# #4 - CLOSED-learn to make socks with 5mmdpns. "Just in time for Xmas"(dpns socks)



## 5mmdpns

I am posting this late tonight so it is all here for theOfficial
Start September 26, 2012!!!

*THE JUST IN TIME CHRISTMAS BASIC SOCK WORKSHOP* 
Please note that this workshop is *CLOSED* to any newcomers at this time due to the overwhelming
response to the number of partipants in the workshop.

You can get your pattern printed off (make a few copies for yourself as you will be writing on them!!!).I prefer
the pattern for 56 stitches, *Beginner
Socks Knitting Pattern*. (Needles and yarn
supplies needed are in here for this pattern). http://www.knittingonthenet.com/patterns/socks
basic.htm

You can get the *Ann Budd book Getting Started Knitting Socks* if you can afford it. Needles, yarns and other information you need for socks is all in this book including patterns. 
You will not go wrong with it and it is my go-tobook for socks. At the moment, you can get it very reasonable at Amazon in the USA http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Starte-Knitting-Socks/dp/1596680296

In Canada go here http://www.amazon.ca
/Getting-Started-Knitting-Socks/dp/1596680296

Practice the *long-tail cast on*. http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/long-tail-cast-on

*How to join your stitches to knit in the round, and how to hold your needles* to maximize your effeciency in working them. This also helps to minimize any laddering that you may get if you are holding the needles as demonstrated. 
(This works for both continental and Englishthrow 
methods of knitting).

http://www.purlbee.com/double-pointed-needles-tutoria/

*Ensuring that there are no holes at the top of the gussett on each side of the heel flap.* Wise Hilda has put this out and it goes to how this is fully explaned and demonstrated, somewhat a little better than in Getting Started Knitting Socks pg 31. http://wisehilda.blogspot.ca/2010/01/on-picking-up-gusset-stitches-avoiding.html

*To determine gauge and the number of stitches to cast on for your socks.* When knitting socks it is always the circumferance of the foot that is a critical measurement. The length of the foot part can always have more rounds or less rounds knit so that the foot length is correctly knit. But the number of stitches around the foot/ankle/leg is important. Knit your swatch in the round in stocking stitch (every stitch is knitted). Do a horizontal count of the number of stitches in one inch across the row of stitches. ____st per inch = your gauge. ___st per inch x ____circumferance of foot in inches = number of st to cast on.

*We will tweak our patterns and knitting as we go along.* This is a fine thing to do! When knitting something, we can generalize as to how to knit it, but when the actual knitting of it takes place, we customize it!! You go ahead and tweak when it is needed. That is ok!

*The kitchener stitch:* when you have the book, it is detailed on pages 42-44. For now, I like this link for doing the kitchener stitch. I have never seen it explained better. http://knitty.com/ISSUEsummer04/FEATtheresasum04.html

*Keeping track of the number of rows for your sock so you can knit the mate the same size.* I would keep track of the number of round I knit by marking each 5th round knit with a gold safety pin. You remove them when your sock's mate has been knit and you will again keep track of the number of rounds you knit on it with the gold safety pins.

Having said that, it is easier to keep track of the number of rounds if you are counting in fives. ie. if you get 13 rounds knit for the cuff and it is now measuring two inches, I would knit another two rounds to make the cuff a total of 15 rounds. (three pins needed).
********
It is important to remember that while we will all start the socks, we will all work and progress at our own individual paces. Some will be able to devote more time to the knitting and others will not be able to because of other lifestyle committments. Remember, it is all good!!! no one is to ever feel inferior because he/she can not "keep up" with someone else who is also knitting with us! this is so important for you all to know. 
We are also never going to be critical of the style/type/method of knitting each sock knitter is going to use. We each have our own styles and methods. I do Norwegian continental knitting and the English throw style of knitting. (There are many varieties of continental knitting and English throw knitting methods). If you are stuck on a particular part of the sock knitting, I may ask you the style of knitting you are using. This is in no way to make you feel like you are knitting wrong. I only need to understand your style so that I can help you and perhaps give you a hint/pointer as to how to make it better for your knitting experience. (I do not do Portuguese knitting using a knitting pin or yarn around the neck, nor do I do knooking or tunisian knitting so I can not help with those).

Let us all Sock ON!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
*Information I need to know when you are posted about your socks.* This assumes you have done your swatch and have your dpns and your yarn. As there are many of you to teach, this will help me to understand where each of you are at in your knitting of socks.

1. dpn size and number ie. 3mm four dpns
2. gauge and number of stitches you cast on ie. 7st=1", CO 56
3. yarn weight/ply ie. #2 wt sock yarn
4. which pattern you are using ie. Beginner Sock Pattern as posted or/ Getting Started Knitting Socks pg 54
5. where you are in your knitting pattern ie. cuff two inches knitted or/need to start the heel flap

Once you have done that then I will need you to explain the problem you are having where you are at in your sock knitting. *If you are experiencing difficulties at any stage in this workshop, it is your responsibility to contact me as many times as is necessary for you to understand the process of knitting basic socks using dpns.*

*Let us all enjoy the workshop and learn how to knit socks using dpns!!!* :thumbup:


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## mtnmama67

Thank you! Think you have done a fabulous job of organizing all of the important information and even providing links - which I have already looked at! Awesome.

as much knitting as I have done over the years - this is my first adventure in knitting socks!!

So generous of you too be doing this workshop!

Sandra


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## 5mmdpns

mtnmama67 said:


> Thank you! Think you have done a fabulous job of organizing all of the important information and even providing links - which I have already looked at! Awesome.
> 
> as much knitting as I have done over the years - this is my first adventure in knitting socks!!
> 
> So generous of you too be doing this workshop!
> 
> Sandra


Hi Sandra, I am looking forwards to doing this with you all! A big welcome to the world of knitting socks! I think and hope you will love it as much as I do. I first learned to knit socks on dpns when I was 10. My mother had the pattern in her head and cast on the stitches for me! 
If you can, copy and paste what I just posted for the workshop into a word document and then print it off for a handy reference.


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## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm bugging you again about my swatch. I had to take a few days off as I was getting too frustrated. So I'm back at it again today, starting fresh and ready to go. When I start my new swatch with my larger needles (3 MM with fine yarn.) Do I knit each row in the round or do I do the ribbing of K2P2 in the round?
> 
> 
> 
> Barby, I dont want to add to your frustrations at all. However, I am going to tell you that 3mm needles are too large for the fine yarn. You have gauge issues and these all need to be worked out before you start the socks. This is a good time to work out all of these issues!:thumbup:
> First of all go out and buy some Bernats Satin Sport or Bernats Baby Softee yarn. They are both #3 weight. Do your gauge swatch with this yarn and the 3mm needles.
> 
> When ever any swatch is called for to be done to determine your gauge, you will always do the swatch in stocking stitch unless the pattern tells you differently. Also your swatch should be knit in the manner in which the pattern is in ie. knit flat back and forth, or knit in the round. In this case, your sock pattern calls for the sock to be knit in the round so you will knit your swatch in the round. You do not have to cast on as many stitches as you need for your sock. You need only cast on about 36 stitches, that works out to be 12 stitches per needle if you are using 3dpns for the swatch. You cast on, and then knit every round for about 3 inches. Measure the horizontal row about half way between your cast on edge and the knitting needle. Count how many stitches per inch you get. This is your gauge.
> 
> Once you get your gauge of how many stitches per inch you get, turn in your book to that pattern. Now measure your foot around the widest part. (see figure 1, page 50 of the book). Take this number and multiply it by your gauge. ie. ____sts per inch x _____ number of inches around your foot = the number of stitches to cast on for your sock.
> 
> I hope this helps. If not, then please ask some more!! I will help you and not give up on you at all!!!!
Click to expand...

First off I want to say how happy I am that your mother is doing so well. You and your family will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. My father lives alone on a cattle ranch in Kansas and it drives me crazy every time something comes up because I can't just be there for him whenever he needs me since I live half way across the country. He will be 80 in March. Needless to say we talk ALL the time so I can keep tabs on him.

Now on to socks... I bought the Bernats Baby Softee yarn #3 weight. So much easier to knit with and I'm using the US#3 needles. I did my swatch and I'm knitting 7 stitches per inch in the round. I remeasured my foot where I want my sock to sit on my ankle, the arch and the ball of my foot and those measurements are 8.5". I took 7 X 8.5 = 59.5 Since this is not in the pattern on page 54 I went to the 64 cast on. Am I doing this right so far?


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## 5mmdpns

Barbyjones, you are doing this right!! The extra 4 stitches for the total cast on number wont make any difference. When you get to the knitting of the foot, you will just slip the sock on and make sure that the sock is coming out to fit your foot. If the sock is a bit too wide for your foot, then you simply make a decrease at the beginning and end of the instep needle to keep the sock fitting huggley to your foot. :thumbup:


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## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> Barbyjones, you are doing this right!! The extra 4 stitches for the total cast on number wont make any difference. When you get to the knitting of the foot, you will just slip the sock on and make sure that the sock is coming out to fit your foot. If the sock is a bit too wide for your foot, then you simply make a decrease at the beginning and end of the instep needle to keep the sock fitting huggley to your foot. :thumbup:


YIPPEE!! :lol: I'm a happy camper now! Thanks for all your help! I'm starting my sock now. I'll K2P2 for 2.5 inches from what you previously told me for a shortie sock. Then I'll be asking what comes next. I'm so excited!


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## jmai5421

I just picked up my book today from the post office. I have read part of it. I did a swatch with #1 Patons Kroy sock yarn and #2 needles. My swatch was 15 stitches for 2 inches. Would I use 7sts=1" or 8sts=1"? The largest part around my foot is 10 1/4". For this pair of socks I will be using the book. Would I be on page 52? I am not sure which way to go but think the 8 st per inch would give me breathing room. What do you think?
I finished the socks for my sisters for Christmas using the pattern you posted. With those I used sock yarn and #3 needles. Here is their pictures and one of my swatch. I like (on page 24) the knit3,purl1 rib for this pair of socks. For my sisters I did a 2x2 rib.


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## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> woooohoooo and there goes Barbyjones just workin those dpns!! When you get done your socks, you celebrate with the rest of us!! I am very happy for you!


OK...got my 2.5 inches knitted lookes good too, if I do say so myself.  Now I'm ready to move on to the Heel. It Says to " K16 turn work around and with same needle P 32 heel sts on one needle. Place rem 32 sts on spare eedles or holder to work later for instep." Now this may sound easy but I don't have the foggiest idea what the heck this means. I've got 16 stitches on 4 needles to equal my 64 cast on for my 7 stitches per inch that I knit in the round. my yarn is #3 weight and I'm working the pattern in the book on page 54.


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## maryladominicana

I am working on the pat. given. I'm using #3 Bernat Baby Softee yarn with a CO of 56 sts, size 2.75 needle , 7 sts in one inch. I Knitted up to 7 inches in K2P2 rib. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. If I knit the first 14 sts as instructed then do I turn in the middle then what, I am confused.


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## Patricia Ann

Hi, I am using #2 US needles. I couldn't find #2 weight yarn so I'm using #1 weight. I did find some #3 weight but didn't like the colors. 
Did the gauge, was 7 stitches pre inch so I'll be doing pattern on page 54.
Getting a late start as I have been taking care of my grand daughter and her 17 month old son who both are sick. 
Will check in with you later. Have fun everyone!


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## 5mmdpns

http://www.knittingonthenet.com/patterns/socksbasic.htm

* Just to let everyone know that this is the new link for the Beginner Socks Knitting Pattern.* The old link does not work anymore. Sorry for the glitch, but as websites get updated the patterns go to new http addresses.


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## 5mmdpns

jmai5421 said:


> I just picked up my book today from the post office. I have read part of it. I did a swatch with #1 Patons Kroy sock yarn and #2 needles. My swatch was 15 stitches for 2 inches. Would I use 7sts=1" or 8sts=1"? The largest part around my foot is 10 1/4". For this pair of socks I will be using the book. Would I be on page 52? I am not sure which way to go but think the 8 st per inch would give me breathing room. What do you think?
> I finished the socks for my sisters for Christmas using the pattern you posted. With those I used sock yarn and #3 needles. Here is their pictures and one of my swatch. I like (on page 24) the knit3,purl1 rib for this pair of socks. For my sisters I did a 2x2 rib.


7st x 10.25" = 71.75 stitches CO
7.5 st x 10.25" = 76.875 stitches CO (7.5 st = 1" is your actual gauge)
8st x 10.25" = 82 stitches CO

Yes, you would be on page 52. I would choose the stitch cast on of 76 stitches which is the one closest for you to cast on. If you wish to rib in 3x1 (K3P1) stitch pattern, that is ok. There is not much stretch to that ribbing but you should be ok.
Your pictures look great!


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## 5mmdpns

barbyjones said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> woooohoooo and there goes Barbyjones just workin those dpns!! When you get done your socks, you celebrate with the rest of us!! I am very happy for you!
> 
> 
> 
> OK...got my 2.5 inches knitted lookes good too, if I do say so myself.  Now I'm ready to move on to the Heel. It Says to " K16 turn work around and with same needle P 32 heel sts on one needle. Place rem 32 sts on spare eedles or holder to work later for instep." Now this may sound easy but I don't have the foggiest idea what the heck this means. I've got 16 stitches on 4 needles to equal my 64 cast on for my 7 stitches per inch that I knit in the round. my yarn is #3 weight and I'm working the pattern in the book on page 54.
Click to expand...

Here is where we have to do a little adjusting. The patterns as written in Getting Started Knitting Socks are for someone who is working on three needles and as you are working on four needles, some things need to be adjusted. (It is easier to adjust from three needle instructions to the four needles rather than the other way around. But it is easier to knit socks, IMHO, to have the sock stitches on four needles and knit with the fifth needle).

You will use the stitches that are on the two needles that are for the back of the leg. (The cast on tail will line up with the first stitch on the left needle. You will use this needle and the next one for your two back leg needles. You can mark them if you wish although you dont have to). You have a total of 32 stitches for the heel flap with 16 stitches on each needle. Go to Heel Flap and add this next part with pencil that I am putting in italics.

Heel Flap _ Knitting on the two back leg needles, _ work back and forth on heel sts in rows as follows:
Row 1: (RS) *Sl 1 pwise (purlwise) with working yarn in back (wyb), K1: repeat from * across _the two back leg needles. Turn. _
Row 2: _(WS)_ Sl 1 pwise with working yarn in front (wyf), purl to the end _of the second back leg needle._

Then just continue on with the heel instructions as written.


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## 5mmdpns

Patricia Ann said:


> Hi, I am using #2 US needles. I couldn't find #2 weight yarn so I'm using #1 weight. I did find some #3 weight but didn't like the colors.
> Did the gauge, was 7 stitches pre inch so I'll be doing pattern on page 54.
> Getting a late start as I have been taking care of my grand daughter and her 17 month old son who both are sick.
> Will check in with you later. Have fun everyone!


Before you cast on the stitches for your socks, measure your foot circumferance (as per page 50, figure 1) and make sure the number of stitches you have to cast on. Take this number of inches and multiply by 7 to find out the number of stitches to cast on. Match this number up to the corresponding cast on number for the pattern on page 54. Using pencil, circle all the numbers in the rest of the pattern that match with this cast on number. :-D


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## 5mmdpns

maryladominicana said:


> I am working on the pat. given. I'm using #3 Bernat Baby Softee yarn with a CO of 56 sts, size 2.75 needle , 7 sts in one inch. I Knitted up to 7 inches in K2P2 rib. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. If I knit the first 14 sts as instructed then do I turn in the middle then what, I am confused.


First I need to know how many needles you are working with for your socks. Are your stitches on three needles and you knit with the forth, or on four needles and you knit with the fifth? Depending on which way this is, the instructions make sense, but to help you out, I need to know the answer to the two questions. Thanks. We will do this!!


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## 5mmdpns

jmai5421, the 2x2 rib will give you more stretch and you are right at the measurement for cast on with no extra stetch allowed if you go with a 3x1 ribbing. IMHO, the 2x2 is better for you. Remember, the author Ann Budd has done thousands of socks and she can play and adjust for her patterns for her own use.


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## 5mmdpns

robmac said:


> 5mmdpns, I have a question about gauge. First to catch you up, I will be using 4 dpns. The question will determine the size of needle. I am using Kroy #1 sock yarn. The rich earth jac.
> Kroy recommends 7st/in on size 3.25mm. I did my swatch with a size 2.75 and have 8st/inch. Which would you recommend on using. I know that will determine which pattern in the book to use.
> Using the 3.25 I did get 7 st/in. And I am comfortable using either size. Was thinking that the smaller needle and tighter gauge would last longer.


When you look at your swatches, which appears to be the better stitchwork for the sock? Sometimes the smaller stitches will produce a better looking stitchwork while larger stitchwork will produce a more open stitchwork and will not be warm enough. I know you have knit socks before and so I will trust your judgement on this.

One thing you may want to consider is the stretch of each swatch you did. Which one stretches the best for the feet you are knitting the sock for. If the person tends to have swelling in their feet, then you will want the gauge that produces the most stretch for their sock. 

Kroy makes very nice sock yarn. While the #1 weight is thin, the quality of the yarn is excellent! I would recommend you knitting the heel of K1 Sl 1 across the right side of the heel and purl back. This will make a nice padding for the back of the heel where it will tend to rub on the back of the shoes. :thumbup:


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## maryladominicana

5mmdpns said:


> maryladominicana said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am working on the pat. given. I'm using #3 Bernat Baby Softee yarn with a CO of 56 sts, size 2.75 needle , 7 sts in one inch. I Knitted up to 7 inches in K2P2 rib. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. If I knit the first 14 sts as instructed then do I turn in the middle then what, I am confused.
> 
> 
> 
> First I need to know how many needles you are working with for your socks. Are your stitches on three needles and you knit with the forth, or on four needles and you knit with the fifth? Depending on which way this is, the instructions make sense, but to help you out, I need to know the answer to the two questions. Thanks. We will do this!!
Click to expand...

Thank you for your response. You have the patience of a saint. I have my sts on three needles and knitting with the fourth. Actually, I believe that I have figured it out and have worked up to the short rows. I have picked up the 14 sts on each side and knit across the instep sts.( the sts which were being held). Now to figure out how to knit 8 or 9 sts of the heel flap and locating and marking the centre as the beginning of the round. I'm figuring it out slowly as I go along. It takes much concentration ,. Thanks so much for your help. I wish I knew how to display photos or attach files.


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## 5mmdpns

maryladominicana said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maryladominicana said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am working on the pat. given. I'm using #3 Bernat Baby Softee yarn with a CO of 56 sts, size 2.75 needle , 7 sts in one inch. I Knitted up to 7 inches in K2P2 rib. Now I am confused as to how to proceed. If I knit the first 14 sts as instructed then do I turn in the middle then what, I am confused.
> 
> 
> 
> First I need to know how many needles you are working with for your socks. Are your stitches on three needles and you knit with the forth, or on four needles and you knit with the fifth? Depending on which way this is, the instructions make sense, but to help you out, I need to know the answer to the two questions. Thanks. We will do this!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for your response. You have the patience of a saint. I have my sts on three needles and knitting with the fourth. Actually, I believe that I have figured it out and have worked up to the short rows. I have picked up the 14 sts on each side and knit across the instep sts.( the sts which were being held). Now to figure out how to knit 8 or 9 sts of the heel flap and locating and marking the centre as the beginning of the round. I'm figuring it out slowly as I go along. It takes much concentration ,. Thanks so much for your help. I wish I knew how to display photos or attach files.
Click to expand...

To add a picture, you will put in a post as to what the picture is. Then at the bottom of your post you will see the tab "Add an Attachment" Click on that tab. It will take you to another window in which you will see your post. At the bottom you will see "browse". Click on that and find the place in your computer that you have the picture you want. (if you are taking a picture of your sock progress, then just save it to your desktop as this is the easiest). ie your desk top. Select the file and then click "Open". This will immediately put it into the Browse link although you will not see it there. Do not put any writing with it as you will have already done this in the post you just did. Then click on "Add Attachment"

It will come up on your post and you will see further wording under the picture and this is in blue lettering. Only you see the blue lettering, no one else does! Just so you know if you save the picture to your desktop, it automatically sizes it for the Knitting Paradise.


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## 5mmdpns

maryladominicana said:


> 5mmdpns Thanks. I will save these instrucions, and try it out. You are so informative. Again,. many thanks.


So if you look at the post you just did, you will see "Add an Attachment" but you will not see it on others' posts. That is because only you can add an attachment to your post. No one else can do that. Same as only you see your edit tab under your post and not on someone else's post, you are the only one who can edit your post. :thumbup:


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## sandy127

This is a weird question. I am using the Lion Brand Easy Stripes sock yarn. I frogged a couple times yesterday because the patten was not coming out right because I was starting at the wrong part of the yarn. That problem is solved and the pattern is beautiful. I am worried about the stretchiness of the sock. My guage is correct, but do you ever worry about the sock stretching to much that when you put it on that your skin will show underneath? I am probably the only one who has ever worried about this, I told you it was a weird question.


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## 5mmdpns

ssusan said:


> Hello Designer,
> 
> I am new at knitting as I stated in early post. I would like to use some 4 ply yarn to start out learning with instead of the sock yarn. Could you please tell me what size needles and how many stitches I would need? I would like to start preparing the sock now. I have been practicing cast on and working with the dpn. Thanks Susan


Hi SSusan, there is a process by which you follow to knit socks. I did ask you a few things back on page 18 but you did not get back on this until now. That is ok! I will refresh what I had posted to you and then we will go from there. (BTW, Designer1234 is not the teacher of this workshop only was the one who got it set up. So I will be teaching you and helping you).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_Hi Susan, to know how to knit and to purl is a great start and we all started out doing that when we first learned to knit!!!

Do you have any double pointed needles? If you print off the pattern I posted for the Begginer Socks Knitting Pattern, are you able to take it with you to a yarn store close to you? Then you can get help buying the supplies you will need. You will need US2 and US3 double pointed knitting needle sets. You will need at least 100gr of sock yarn of a #2 weight. You could even get some #3 weight yarn which is a good weight for socks. This is what I use for all my socks unless I want some slipper socks, then I use a #4 weight. (A sock yarn weight of #1 is really too thin to use for your first socks when you are not a very experienced knitter). I sense a shopping trip is in the works for you unless you have all these supplies!

If you take the pattern with you to the store, also check and see if they have the recommended book Getting Started Knitting Socks by Ann Budd. A book store near you may also have it. If not, check your library and/or order it from Amazon. It is the sock book of my choice in my reference library for my knitting books and I have lots of them but this one is my favorite! _
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The 4 ply yarn is a sock yarn and is equivalent to a #2 weight yarn. What does the yarn label indicate in other terms what this yarn is? Is there a symbol of a ball of yarn with a number in it somewhere on the label? What is the name of the yarn?

If you have this 4ply yarn (#2 weight) you will need to buy US2 and US3 double pointed needles (as in the pattern's suggestion) and do a gauge swatch in the round to see which needle produces the 7st=1" gauge as called for in the pattern.:thumbup: Which size dpns do you have?

You also need to measure your foot's circumferance around the widest part. When you know these things then we can determine how many stitches you need to cast on for your socks.

___stitches per inch x ___inches of your foot measurement = the number of stitches to cast on.

The long tail cast on is the best cast on for socks. :thumbup: Excellent that you have been practicing with the dpns! I hope you are comfortable knitting with them and have been doing some knitting in the round with them!

Also you can take the printed pattern and go to your yarn store and get the sales person to assist you with what you need to get. The supplies are well stated in the pattern. Hope this helps you out and that you will be telling us what yarn you bought and etc.


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## Designer1234

DESIGNER HERE; that is correct - 5mmdpns is the sock expert. _ I am a new sock maker myself and am the last person who would be considered a teacher of this subject _

I am responsible for organizing the different workshops and just teach my own designs, certainly not qualified to answer any questions on this subject .*we are fortunate to have 5mmdpns who IS VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE to help you learn to make socks.*


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## baglady1104

Hello again! 5DPNs, thanks for the wonderful job you did putting all the information in one place. It is so convenient now.

I've finally, after a lot of dithering and changing my mind, settled on using the Kroy sock yarn, #1, and am very pleased with the way it is working up and looking in stockinette.
Here's my info:
#1 sock yarn
size 2 needles
7 sts/in. stockinette
8" foot circumference
Using the 56 st. cast on pattern printed from the Internet, backed up by the pattern from the book, p. 54--unless you tell me I need to change something. Trying to post a pic of my swatch.


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## 5mmdpns

baglady1104, You are good to go with your figures!


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## 5mmdpns

Sandy127, sometimes you just have to trust in what the pattern (gauge and everything you did to prepare in the process to get to the stage of knitting the sock) says. If you knit the sock in too large of needles for the yarn, then it would have a lacey appearance when you put the sock on and yes, skin will show. Do I worry about it? No, because when I made my first sock I did not know how to worry about such things! Then I learned to trust in the pattern as written.


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## baglady1104

5mmdpns said:


> baglady1104, You are good to go with your figures!


Thanks! Oh--using 4 needles but I'm getting a little bit of laddering between 1-2 and 2-3 needles. Maybe I'll add the other needle?


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## 5mmdpns

Baglady, the laddering will come out in the wash and your second sock will not have as many ladders. The patterns are written for three needles when it comes to directions for the heel and gusset but if you wish, go ahead and add the fourth to cut down on the laddering. The pattern can be tweaked just like I did with Barbyjones. :thumbup:


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## barbyjones

Just so I'm clear on this. (I have never read a knitting pattern before so I'm a little stupid here.) In my book page 54 It has Heel K16 turn work around and with same needle P32 heel sts on one needle place rem 32 sts on space needles on holder that is what you told me to do below. Right? I don't want to miss a step and have to rip it out. I'm not very good at picking up ripped out stitches  I actually understand the Heel Flap part Row 1 and Row 2.



5mmdpns said:


> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> woooohoooo and there goes Barbyjones just workin those dpns!! When you get done your socks, you celebrate with the rest of us!! I am very happy for you!
> 
> 
> 
> OK...got my 2.5 inches knitted lookes good too, if I do say so myself.  Now I'm ready to move on to the Heel. It Says to " K16 turn work around and with same needle P 32 heel sts on one needle. Place rem 32 sts on spare eedles or holder to work later for instep." Now this may sound easy but I don't have the foggiest idea what the heck this means. I've got 16 stitches on 4 needles to equal my 64 cast on for my 7 stitches per inch that I knit in the round. my yarn is #3 weight and I'm working the pattern in the book on page 54.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here is where we have to do a little adjusting. The patterns as written in Getting Started Knitting Socks are for someone who is working on three needles and as you are working on four needles, some things need to be adjusted. (It is easier to adjust from three needle instructions to the four needles rather than the other way around. But it is easier to knit socks, IMHO, to have the sock stitches on four needles and knit with the fifth needle).
> 
> You will use the stitches that are on the two needles that are for the back of the leg. (The cast on tail will line up with the first stitch on the left needle. You will use this needle and the next one for your two back leg needles. You can mark them if you wish although you dont have to). You have a total of 32 stitches for the heel flap with 16 stitches on each needle. Go to Heel Flap and add this next part with pencil that I am putting in italics.
> 
> Heel Flap _ Knitting on the two back leg needles, _ work back and forth on heel sts in rows as follows:
> Row 1: (RS) *Sl 1 pwise (purlwise) with working yarn in back (wyb), K1: repeat from * across _the two back leg needles. Turn. _
> Row 2: _(WS)_ Sl 1 pwise with working yarn in front (wyf), purl to the end _of the second back leg needle._
> 
> Then just continue on with the heel instructions as written.
Click to expand...


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## 5mmdpns

_ BarbyJones asks "In my book page 54 It has Heel K16 turn work around and with same needle P32 heel sts on one needle place rem 32 sts on space needles on holder that is what you told me to do below. Right?"_

No. This step has no need to be done. This is the part that refers to having the sock stitches on three needles...as you have the stitches on four needles, you dont have to do any of this step. You go directly to my middle paragraph where I explain _"You will use the stitches that are on the two needles that are for the back of the leg."_ You start your heel flap instructions from there. Take your sock knitting and find where I am talking about this on your knitting. It is easier to understand that way.


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## 5mmdpns

MissMelba said:


> I am at the same point as BarbyJones and am also working on 5 needles. I did the knit and turn and purl, then started the two-row instructions (*s1, k1* across, turn, s1, purl across) for several rows. I still have a ways to go on the heel flap. I hope my sock will turn out ok, it does not look wonky (yet??). I will make sure I do the second sock the same way so that they match.


You may have to search a bit for the stitches to pick up along those couple of rows and just be aware that there wont be a slipped stitch for you to pick up. The reason we like to slip the first stitch is to provide a nice easy stitch to put the needle through as we pick up stitches along the sides of the heel flap. It can be done successfully without the slipped stitches, just takes a little more searching to find the stitches.


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## 5mmdpns

Anatomy or the logistics of the basic sock. 1. cuff and leg 2. heel flap 3. heel turn 4. gusset 5. foot 6. toe


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## 5mmdpns

*INFORMATION SHEETS*
Socks are just knitting stitches in specific orders and then presto!! a sock is born!! I am setting out some basic information that is common to all socks and some is for using double pointed needles when knitting socks.

*-measuring the circumference of the foot and leg and determining cast on stitches*
Chapter 3 pgs 49-51 is about measuring the foot to knit the right size of sock. You need to take your tape measure and ruler and measure the foot and leg according to the figures 1,2,3 on page 50, then turn to the corresponding chart on page 51 for a guideline. 
Measure your foots circumference around the widest part. (see figure 1, page 50 of the book). Take this number and multiply it by your gauge. ie. ____sts per inch x _____ number of inches around your foot = the number of stitches to cast on for your sock. Now you can match up the pattern in the book to your number of cast on stitches and gauge that you got.

*What is a gauge swatch and why do we need it?* A gauge swatch is done to determine what tension your knitting stitches are using the yarn and the needles you have chosen. All patterns suggest a knitting gauge of a specific number of stitches to get per a four inch (ten centimetre) square piece of knitted sample (your swatch).

The Beginner Socks Knitting Pattern says a gauge of 28 st = 4" which is 7 stitches per inch. The pattern also suggests what yarn to use -> sock yarn of your choice. Sock yarns are all of a #1 or #2 weight. This pattern will make a woman's size 7 sock. (My foot is larger than a size 7 and so I adjust my yarn weight or thickness of yarn to make a slightly larger gauge of 6 st = 1", a larger foot of 9 1/2 would be to get a gauge of about 5 st = 1". These tweaks are something a knitter can do in order to follow the same pattern, in this case the 56 stitch CO Beginner Socks Knitting Pattern. The Getting Started Knitting Socks book by Ann Budd figures out all this for you and you pick your pattern according to the gauge swatch you get).

So since you are knitting in the round, you can CO your stitches, distribute to the dpns, join in the round and knit every stitch each round for about 4". Then take and measure with your ruler (some may have a knitting gauge ruler if not, an ordinary ruler is fine). Measure about one inch or so down from the needle and lay the ruler across the stitches horizontally. Count the number of stitches you get in two inches and divide by half. That is the number of st per inch you get for YOUR gauge. This is your gauge swatch.

You can knit for about two to three inches and then measure in the middle for your gauge. Your gauge needs to be knit in stocking stitch (every stitch is a knit stitch) rather than in ribbing (k2p2) as the ribbing is meant to stretch and give firmness to the cuff.

If you do not get the gauge you want or is called for in the pattern, then you dont frog this swatch. You mark with a safety pin where your stitches are on the needle and simply pick up another set of dpns in a size smaller or larger and knit another three inches. Measure again.

This is important to note for everyone. You always want to measure and calculate what actually is for your gauge so that you only need to knit once rather than frog the project! It never ever hurts to re-measure and recount.

How do you know which size needle to use first when knitting your gauge swatch? The pattern will always suggest what needle to use; this pattern suggests size US2 or US3. You try one of these needles first. If you get too many stitches per inch -> then try the next size larger needles. If you get too few stitches per inch -> then try the next size smaller needles.

*-selecting materials/supplies of needles & yarns*
Select your yarn first, and then you get the needles. Appropriate yarns for the socks are #1 to #4 weights. Typical sock yarn is of #1 or #2 weights. Once you get your yarn, you match the needles to the yarn. It is best to get two sizes as you will need to experiment with them to make gauge. (This is explained later). You need sufficient yarn to knit both socks with and the pattern has the amount of yarn to get.

We are using double pointed needles for this workshop. My dpns preferences are the 6 and 7 inch lengths. The smaller length needles will have your stitches falling off the needles. The longer length needles may be too clumsy to use nicely. I always suggest that if you can, you would like to get the dpn sets with five needles in them. If you loose one, you still have 4 and socks can be knit with four needles.

If any of you are liking to go with a five dpns sock, you may make up the four set with one needle from the next size to the size of the four needle dpn set you have. Using five needles does make the laddering smaller or non-existent and does make for a better distribution on the needles. It has its uses too when it comes time to make the heel flap. For those of you who are going with four dpns, this is not an issue! Socks are perfectly fine being knit on a set of 4 dpns!

*-long tail cast on* 
The long tail CO (cast on) is perfect for knitting socks. It allows stretch while retaining its shape. It will hug the leg and go a long way to preventing the sock from falling down and becoming a slouch sock. Socks need to gently hug the leg so they dont fall down. Go to page 20 of the book Getting Started Knitting Socks for a illustrated step by step instruction of the long tail cast on. You may want to have this page open as you watch the long tail cast on video link I provided for you all! (hint: in my book I used a colored pencil to mark the one strand of yarn going around the thumb so I could keep better track of it and where it is in relation to the needle and other yarn strand).
http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/long-tail-cast-on

Just for anyone who is practicing the long tail cast on, you can use any yarn for this, it does not need to be your yarn you are going to use for the socks!!! in fact, if you practice casting it on and then you frog it, and then practice again and etc. the yarn may not be nice enough anymore for the cast on for the socks.

*Two ways to distribute your stitches on the dpns.* Cast on all the stitches onto one needle, then distribute them evenly and then join in the round. It keeps the stitches from being twisted this way.

OR you can cast all the stitches onto one needle, and then rib your stitches all onto a second needle. Take those stitches and distribute them evenly between your needles, and then join in the round. This is a guaranteed way to never get your stitches twisted. You then just use the 3" tail from the cast on to stitch the little gap shut. This is my preference for myself. The choice though is really up to you.

*-joining in the round *
Here is an excellent reference for how to join your stitches to knit in the round, and how to hold your needles to maximize your efficiency in working them. This also helps to minimize any laddering that you may get if you are holding the needles as demonstrated. (This works for both continental and English throw methods of knitting). http://www.purlbee.com/double-pointed-needles-tutoria/

*-the cuff *
When you are knitting your ribbing, the length of ribbing needs to be at least 2 inches when you measure from your needles to the cast on edge. You needle to keep knitting round and round the needles until you measure two inches from the cast on edge to your needles. You are measuring the number of rounds you knit (not the number of stitches you have gotten for your gauge). Mark this number down so you knit the cuff for the mate sock to match.

*-the leg length *
You will likely need a few gold safety pins to slip around the stitches to keep track of where you are at with the number of rows. Do not remove them until the second sock has been entirely knit to match the first one.

When I think of a "normal" sock, it has a 2" cuff, a 4"leg in stocking stitch, a heel flap, and a foot knit in stocking stitch.

For your "leg" of eight inches from cast on to heel flap, for a normal sock, I would knit two inches of cuff, and 6 inches of stocking stitch. 2" cuff + 6" stocking stitch = 8 inches leg

You could put in any cuff measurement and leg measurement to equal eight inches. Just be sure that the cuff is not too short to do the job of a cuff (keeping the sock pulled up and not slouching). ie. 3"cuff + 5"stocking stitch = 8 inches leg

I would keep track of the number of round I knit by marking each 5th round knit with a gold safety pin. You remove them when your sock's mate has been knit and you will again keep track of the number of rounds you knit on it with the gold safety pins.

It is easier to keep track of the number of rounds if you are counting in fives. ie. if you get 13 rounds knit for the cuff and it is now measuring two inches, I would knit another two rounds to make the cuff a total of 15 rounds. (three pins needed).

The length of the leg can always be longer or shorter than what the pattern states. It has to be a sock that fits right for you! If that means a short ankle sock, then your stocking stitch part may only be 1" or not at all, just go from the ribbing into the heel flap.

*-how to make the heel flap and how to turn the heel* 
This is self-explanatory in both the Beginner Sock Knitting Pattern and in the Getting Started Knitting Socks book (page 20). If you need assistance, then please ask.

For those with the book, turn to pages 28 and 29. It is very nicely laid out with explanation and diagrams. For those who dont have the book, I will try to find you a http link to show this technique of using short rows to turn the heel. (Note: this is not the same as making a short row heel which is another type of heel and completely different than the heel flap).

*-picking up stitches for the gusset and knitting the gusset* 
Ideally, a smaller needle is used to pick up stitches along the heel flap to knit the gusset. A smaller needle is easier to slip stitches onto when picking up stitches.
Ensuring that there are no holes at the top of the gusset on each side of the heel flap. Wise Hilda has put this out and it goes to how this is fully explained and demonstrated, (better than in Getting Started Knitting Socks pg 31).
http://wisehilda.blogspot.ca/2010/01/on-picking-up-gusset-stitches-avoiding.html 
Once you have done that and made sure of your "no holes gusset" then knit one complete round.
Then you will knit the decreases as per your pattern instructions.

*-knitting the foot *
You will likely need a few gold safety pins to slip around the stitches to keep track of where you are at with the number of rows. Do not remove them until the second sock has been entirely knit to match the first one.

*-kitchener stitching the toes * (also known as grafting)
When your first sock is ready to close off the toes, slip your toe stitches onto stitch holders so that you do not kitchener off both socks until this is the final step needing to be done. If you have to frog back a little, you do not want to undo the kitchener stitching to do this and knit them longer/shorter on the foot. Then try them both on and make doubly sure of their fit.
When you are ready to kitchener, I have an excellent link for that. It is also well explained on pages 42-44 in Getting Started Knitting Socks. http://knitty.com/ISSUEsummer04/FEATtheresasum04.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some terminology for those who are not familiar with some knitting terms:
*frogging* means to rip it out (rip it, rip it, rip it sounds like the sounds frogs make)

*tink* is the word knit spelled backwards and means to undo one stitch at a time for a few stitches until you have undone the knitting to before you made a knitting stitch mistake

*lifeline* is a "line" of a contrasting color that is threaded along through the stitches just under where they are on the knitting needle. A darning needle is used to thread this through. It is called a lifeline because if you do a big mistake, then you can just frog back to the lifeline, pick up the stitches and re-knit. When you have finished knitting, you remove the lifeline

Sometimes there are what we call *ladders* between the needles. These are simply the yarn gapping between two needles. There are various tricks to get the ladders removed and after time, your knitting in the round will no longer give you ladders. The best way to get ladders out of the socks is to simply do a wet water soak, swish a bit, and wring out the water and set to dry flat on a towel. This is called blocking. *Blocking* is the process of using water and stretching into place the stitches you made in your knitting -- it evens out all the tensions that the knitter used in making the item.

*Socker* is one who is knitting a sock or has knit socks before. haha, my word for you all!

So what is a *tweak*? A tweak is what knitters call a small pattern adjustment made to suit them and adjust the pattern to fit them. ie. I tweaked the 56 stitch sock pattern which will fit a lady's size 7 foot to fit my size 8 foot. I did this by changing the yarn weight from a #1 or #2 to a #3 weight which will give me 6 st = 1".

The *working yarn* is the yarn you will hold in your hand to knit the new stitches with. For continental knitters, it is the yarn held in your left hand, for those doing the English throw, it is the yarn held in your right hand. The working yarn is the yarn that comes off the yarn ball to your hand.

*Huggley*, is what the sock does in relation to the foot and leg. It hugs them and a well fitting sock is huggley. (Also my word).

*ADDITIONAL TIPS AND HINTS I FIND USEFUL.*
So how do I work with all these needles at once? while the thought of using four or five needles in close proximity to one another can be intimidating, you need to know that in front you, you will be working on only two of those needles. First needle is the one that is held in your left hand with stitches and the second needle is the one in your right hand that you are knitting the new stitches onto from the left hand needle. The other needles must just simply wait their turn to be in your hand and knitted.

*Two socks at Once* I will cast on and knit the cuff of one sock using one ball of yarn. Next I will cast on and knit the cuff of the mate on another set of dpns and use the second ball of yarn. I will go back and forth between each sock, knitting them in stages. In this manner, I will start the heel flaps at the same time, turn the heels at the same time, knit the gussets at the same time, etc. and then get to the kitchener stitch at the same time. Originally when I first started doing this, it was to make the socks the same length and to keep every step the same (one to learn on first, the other to actually make without a mistake). It came in really handy when it came time to pick up stitches for the gusset and to kitchener off at the toes. If anyone would like to also do this, then get yourself two sets of the same size dpns you will use for knitting your socks. Do your gauge swatch first so you know which set to get a double of.

*Trouble keeping those stitches on the dpns while trying to join in the round?* Cast all your stitches onto one dpn. Put a rubber elastic over the far left end so not to loose any stitches if you have short dpns. (If you have rubber stoppers for your dpns, then use them but you dont have to go out and get them when a simple elastic band will work).

Take another dpn and put an elastic over the far right hand side of the this needle. Knitting with this second dpn do the following stitch pattern right across the stitches on the first dpn making a ribbing. *k2, p2* repeat until all stitches have been ribbed. Turn and do this again for the next row. (On this row you will be knitting the stitches that you purled on the previous row and purling the stitches you knitted on the previous row).

Now take and divide your stitches onto the rest of the dpns, remove the elastics if you need to, and on your next row (which is now going to be a round) you are going to continue to k2, p2. You have now completed the cast on row, the first ribbing row, the second ribbing row, joined in the round and knitted your first round in ribbing. Your stitches should be divided on your needles so that you start a k2 at the beginning of each needle.

If you need to put elastics on the ends of the needles to keep the stitches from slipping off the needles, then do so. There is nothing wrong with doing that. As you get used to knitting in the round you will no longer need to keep the elastics on. But to start off with, you may need to. And that is alright too -- many knitters do this for the first inch or so of knitting until the stitches stay on the needles on their own.

Once you are able to do this, and you knit a bit, you may wish to keep these stitches on the needles and not frog them off, but keep on knitting the sock as per the pattern in your book. I like to make the ribbing about two inches total before switching to knitting each stitch. Mark in your book how many rows and rounds you knit for the cuff so you can do the same for the mate to this sock. Make sure you leave a 3 - 4" tail from your cast on to stitch the little V gap left from the couple of rows you knit before joining in the round.

Here is a picture with explanations of this technique. Note this person has the knitting on a circular needle so dont mind that, the concept of the knitting in the round is the same. Also when you are knitting in the round the outside of the sock should be facing you and is on the outside while the inside of the sock is all inside of the needle "circle". In other words, the needle you are knitting the stitches off of will be the one closest to you and the other needles are away from you. http://theknitter.themakingspot.com/blog/knitting-in-the-round-part-3

*A chart for needle size comparisons:*
http://www.yarnfwd.com/main/needleconv.html

*A chart for yarn weights and the needles suggested to use for the various weights:*
http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/weight.html

*Some charts for converting yarn ply to weights and such things:* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarn_weight

Here is another chart: http://www.theknittingsite.com/knitting-conversion-tables/

Here is another one yet (under the column USA, print it off and number the entries as 0, 1,2,3,4,5,6 to get the corresponding yarn weight): http://www.k2tog.com.au/index.php?main_page=page_4

*What to do if you run out of working yarn and you are not finished the sock?*
At no point in the knitting of this sock will you ever have a knot. If there is a knot in the working yarn, you will cut it off and will join in the new yarn by overlapping the old end and the new end by three inches. How to join a new yarn to continue knitting the socks if you run out of working yarn? When you knit socks, you never want to have a knot anywhere in your sock. It will rub and irritate on your leg/foot and cause you to experience a very uncomfortable sensation. It is to be avoided. Before you run of working yarn, you want to leave at least 4 inches of old yarn and overlap these 4 inches with the new working yarn. Knit the next several stitches with the two strands held together. The sock will be thicker for a few stitches, but that is ok, just make sure you dont join this on the sole of the foot. You can make the join on the top of the foot. If you think you are going to run out of working yarn in your heel flap or heel turn, join in the new yarn before you start the heel flap. Leave at least three inches of yarn to allow you to have enough yarn ends to weave in for an inch. When you have finished the sock, you will turn the sock inside out and weave in the ends with a darning needle. Here is a video to help you with this: 




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just a word for all you Sockers -- socks are a knitting journey and meant to be enjoyed, knitted, tweaked, frogged, re-tweaked, given away, etc. and we are well on our way to learning to knit a basic sock....I am hoping that you all will get as much pleasure from knitting socks as I do! At the end of our sock workshop, I would encourage as many of you as is possible to post your pictures of your socks. We can have a parade of socks. Shirley aka Designer1234 can set up the parade of socks as she has done this sort of parade of knitted items before. 
Socks are always a work in progress and one that you can change up and make into your own unique style. You will discover and find this style as you go along in your sock journeys. It is all there for you to discover and enjoy! *Sock ON!* :-D


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## 5mmdpns




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## 5mmdpns

Cyndy's pictures of her gauge swatch where she demonstrates the measuring of gauge with a gauge ruler.


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## 5mmdpns

For the parade of felted slippers please scroll through these posts and see all the wonderful slippers that were done in another workshop. This is the idea for our parade of socks that Shirley would like to do for our socks! I think it is great! :thumbup:
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-111122-1.html


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## 5mmdpns

deenac said:


> One thing, I have tree trunks for legs, very old tree trunks, if you get my drift. My preference for socks are those that have the same stitch from the cuff down to the heel, which is the type I see in the book. May I use that pattern while following your guide?


Of course, you will just knit a long "cuff" of 7 inches or so until you want to start the heel flap. The cuff can be any length but not shorter than two inches. The one in the book follows a 2x2 or a K2P2 ribbing. 

BTW, the Information Sheets are on the page that comes before this one. (I am not going to give you the page number as they are still in the process of changing as the preliminary pages are deleted).


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## 5mmdpns

Cookie1957 said:


> Hi 5mmdpns,
> I got my book and I'm getting started today. I have a question on transferring the stitches to all the dpns. Can you please explain what the "rib your stitches on a second needle" means in your information sheet instructions?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Hi Cookie, this was in reference to distributing the stitches evenly on all the dpns. Sometimes a person will have some problems with doing this because the cast on stitches have a tendancy to twist on the needles while trying to join in the round. 
To prevent the twisting, you take two dpns and treat them as straight needles. You cast onto one needle and then your first row is done in ribbing of K2P2 as you knit them onto the second needle. When that first row is done, then they should not have the tendency to twist. It is now that you can distribute them evenly on the dpns. Some will do the cast on, then knit two rows of ribbing before joining in the round. You just leave a little 3 to 4 inch cast on tail to sew up the little V-gap in the edge when the sock is finished.


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## jmai5421

5mmdpns said:


> Cookie1957 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi 5mmdpns,
> I got my book and I'm getting started today. I have a question on transferring the stitches to all the dpns. Can you please explain what the "rib your stitches on a second needle" means in your information sheet instructions?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Cookie, this was in reference to distributing the stitches evenly on all the dpns. Sometimes a person will have some problems with doing this because the cast on stitches have a tendancy to twist on the needles while trying to join in the round.
> To prevent the twisting, you take two dpns and treat them as straight needles. You cast onto one needle and then your first row is done in ribbing of K2P2 as you knit them onto the second needle. When that first row is done, then they should not have the tendency to twist. It is now that you can distribute them evenly on the dpns. Some will do the cast on, then knit two rows of ribbing before joining in the round. You just leave a little 3 to 4 inch cast on tail to sew up the little V-gap in the edge when the sock is finished.
Click to expand...

That was my problem and why I avoided DPN's. I started doing the first row and then dividing the stitches. It was much easier and i didn't end up with so many twisted stitches. I have had to frog a couple of times due to twisted stitches but if I watch my self and am careful it works. Thanks 5mmdpns


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## 5mmdpns

jmai5421, in the preliminary pages, BarbyJones had this same trouble and we worked to get her on the right track. So I did include it in the Information Sheets. I have trouble too and this is how I do this. My Mother (my first sock teacher) has the best of luck as she just distributes the stitches as she casts on! But then she is my hero! haha, I just cant seem to do that. 

That is okay because every knitter has their own way of doing things and some ways are better for a knitter than other ways. They are not wrong ways, they are just different but the end results are the same. You just customize/tweak the techniques to work for you.


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## 5mmdpns

I just thought I would repost some information as some of the http links were a little off.
You can get the Ann Budd book Getting Started Knitting Socks. Needles, yarns and other information you need for socks is all in this book including patterns. You will not go wrong with it and it is my go-to book for socks. At the moment, you can get it very reasonable at Amazon. 
In the USA http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Knitting-Socks/dp/1596680296 
In Canada go here http://www.amazon.ca/Getting-Started-Knitting-Socks/dp/1596680296


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## baglady1104

I worked about 4" of 1x1 ribbing with the basic long-tail cast on and couldn't believe how nice and stretchy it was. I've read some things about casting on loosely for socks, and did that by using one size bigger needle for the cast on. It's how I cast on for hats and just seemed like a good idea to do so for socks, too. Wish I could say I've ribbed the other sock 5" but alas, that was the first sock and had to frog it because I made a mistake, tried to fix it, compounded the problem several times over until it covered almost one whole side and my frustration was out of bounds. Now I'm working 2" of 2x2 ribbing per sock, trying to do both socks at the same time in sections.


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## amg10241

K, 55mmdpns Im going to get ready to look and learn how to use the dpn's my question when I swatch do I do it in the round or just a square?
thnks
again


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## 5mmdpns

The swatches are always done in the same manner in which the pattern is knitted. ie. A sweater is knit flat so the swatch is knit flat. the socks in this workshop are knit in the round, so the swatch is knit in the round. If these socks were knit flat on two needles, the swatch would be knit in a square. 

There are some pointers and tips on the posted link to help with holding the dpns and working with them. You will do fine.


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## 5mmdpns

amg10241 said:


> where would I find information sheets?


You start on page 1 and start reading, when you come across them, you will know! When you do a workshop, the pages are up for everyone to benefit from information posted. As the teacher, I have set out instructions and helpful hints and posted website links for everyone's benefit.

When knitting projects, you cant skip over things. Especially when following a set of instructions called the knitting pattern. If you start missing sections, then the pattern you are knitting does not turn out. There is alot of frustrations, and a lot of frogging that goes on. It does take time to get involved with patterns, yarns, needles, etc. when starting a new knitted project. Everything in life, as in this workshop, does have procedures that need to be done in the order in which they are to be performed so that the final outcome is a success. I hope you will forgive me for not telling you what page the Information Sheets are on. You need to discover them for yourself! :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

amg10241 said:


> I saw that, and it's that tutorial that I saw, but IM still a bit confused on how to use them. and not quite sure how to get my gauge or the number of stitches.. I did discover the information page..


Ok, here are some questions for you to answer and some steps you need to do. You have the pattern and you got the recommended yarn and bought the recommended needles.

1. What yarn do you have? what is the weight of the yarn?
2. You have your double pointed needles.
3. You make a gauge swatch in the round with your needles and your yarn. I am assuming you learned how to make the long tail cast on as per the video.
4. You count how many stitches you have per inch.
5. You measure your foot circumference. 
6. You take the number of stitches per inch that you got with your gauge and multiply that by the number of inches of your foot circumference. That number is the number of stitches you need to cast on for your socks.

____st/inch x ___inches of foot circumference = the number of cast on stitches


----------



## jmai5421

5mmdpns said:


> jmai5421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in. I have the cuff and leg of a 2x2 rib for 8 inches for both socks. I am working on the heel flap of the first sock. I am on page 52 of the book. I also discovered that I have two different dye lots. Hopefully nobody will get their eyes right down on my feet to discover this. I do love this book also the free download one you posted. I am also following your instructions. They are very helpful I like everything condensed and in one place.
> Thank you
> Judy
> 
> 
> 
> Judy, I am glad for your feedback on the Information Sheets and my instructions. (Do you find the book Getting Started Knitting Socks helpful and useful as a tool in your knitting?) I am so glad for you and your socks! This is your third pair now since the sock workshop started, right? You did a pink variegated pair and a blue variegated pair. Robmac is on his third pair too.
> 
> Just a quick question, when you bought the yarn for these socks, did you check the dye lot numbers to see if they were the same? What yarn did you get?
Click to expand...

I wish I had this book first instead of all the others that I have. I can see why this is your go to reference book. Thank you for recommending it. Yes this is my third pair, but the first using the book. I didn't have it when I did the other two pairs. I just used the pattern and your suggestions. I am getting used to dpn's.
As you know I am at the cabin (just 2weeks left). I think that I bought more than 2 skeins on sale and the rest is at home. The yarn is Patons kroy jacquards. I am usually very careful when I get yarn to make sure they are all the same dye lot. Either I have more at home or a senior moment when I bought the yarn. I bought the yarn. I did not order off the internet so it is my fault.


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## 5mmdpns

Cookie1957 said:


> I feel so dumb. I had a family emergency so I did not get to start last week as planned. I am stumped at the very beginning. Here's where I am. I have cast on my stitches, worked the first row as K2 P2 as you suggested to keep stitches from twisting. I have used the link you provided to distribute my stitches on the the 3 needles and it is not working. The picture in the link says I should have the cast on tail and the working yarn on the same needle. Mine are on separate needles.
> 
> Can you please tell me what I did wrong? I think once I get past this part I will be good to go. This has been my major problem in trying to work on dpns in the past. Thanks for your help!!!


You did nothing wrong! If you had joined in the round immediately after casting on, then the cast on tail and the working yarn would be on the same needle. Actually, after the long tail cast on is done, you will notice that the working yarn and the cast on tail is one stitch above the other. Now that you ribbed one row, the working yarn and the cast on tail yarn are at opposite ends of the needle. That is ok.

It is more important that you knit the first row before joining the round so that you do not getting your stitches twisted!!! (You can ignore the detail of what that picture indicated!) Now you just continue on. It is good. :thumbup:


----------



## 5mmdpns

Judy, I hope you are enjoying your time at the cabin, and I do remember that you were going up there for a while. When you get home, you may want to check your yarn and see if the matching Kroy yarns are in your stash, then knit the matching ones. Also when you are comfortable with the socks in the book, you may want to take a peek at the patterned socks in the back of the book. They are all based on the basic sock instructions with a few extra patterns on the leg and cuff. Some have the patterns in the self-striping yarns. 

Using the chunky yarn, you may want to knit some ankle socks using the pattern on page 60. These ankle socks if knit a little bigger than your foot, will be excellent slipper socks.


----------



## 5mmdpns

Hannelore said:


> I have done the heel flap and turned the heel, now I am up to picking up the slipped stitches to get to the foot part of the sock. In the past I have picked up the front part of the stitch. Is this the right way or do I pick up the two bars of the stitch?


Both of those are ok. I like to just pick up the front loop. If you pick up only the back loop that too is ok. If you pick up both loops then there will be a slight ridge line there along side the heel flap. All of the ways are good and ok to do. What you do not want to do is pick up the front loop, and then the next back loop, and then both loops. You need to be consistent in which loops you are picking up -- all front loops, or all back loops, or all both loops.

What I find very helpful is to use an extra dpn that is one size smaller and pick them all up along one side and then knit them. Dont forget to pick up the extra stitch in the gusset corner as per Wise Hilda's http link.


----------



## robmac

Jmai, a word of caution with the jacquards, be sure to do a gauge swatch with it, it is different than the kroy fx line. I found out the hard way. My gauge with the fx was 8 stitches per inch, with the jacquards it is only 7 stitches per inch. Thought they looked big, well frog time. Lesson learned. Different lines of the same brand can very greatly, even if they feel the same,, but the jacquards do knit up nicely. You will like it.


----------



## jmai5421

robmac said:


> Jmai, a word of caution with the jacquards, be sure to do a gauge swatch with it, it is different than the kroy fx line. I found out the hard way. My gauge with the fx was 8 stitches per inch, with the jacquards it is only 7 stitches per inch. Thought they looked big, well frog time. Lesson learned. Different lines of the same brand can very greatly, even if they feel the same,, but the jacquards do knit up nicely. You will like it.


Thanks for the tip. I do have some other sock yarn up here. I will make a new swatch to make sure. At least the dye lots are the same. I am anxious to see the pattern after I start knitting the socks. These have become addictive.


----------



## robmac

I so agree with them being addictive. I just love doing socks, and am getting fairly quick at using the dpns finally. Have always done a modified magic loop before, where I divide the sock into three sections on the needles, so basically like using the dpns, but still all on one needle, but dpns aren't that bad once you get the hang of them.


----------



## 5mmdpns

barbyjones said:


> Here I am again...I've finished my 32 rows of Heel Flap and now i'm ready for the Turn. I've read pages 28 - 29 and looked the pictures over and I still can't make heads or tails out of it. I need your words of wisdom to get this through my thick skull. If you can tell me the purpose of this step that might helpl too. Thanks so much. I think I've been knitting too long today.


This is where you blindly have to trust the sock instructions and is truly the magical part of sock knitting. Up to now you have been knitting the sock to fit your leg and the back of your heel. It is all one straight piece. Now you have to make the bottom of the foot. You start this where the back of the heel joins the bottom of the heel.

For a detailed demonstration, I am going to have you put on this sock. (Make sure you have elastics on the ends of your needles so the stitches dont come off the needles). Pull up the sock until the heel flap just touches the floor. Looking at this, you see that you now have to knit the sole of your sock. To do this you need to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom of the heel flap. This is the purpose of the heel turn.

I would suggest that if you have your heel flap stitches split between two needles, you put them all onto one needle so that the right side of your work faces you and the working yarn is on the right hand side of the left needle which holds the stitches.

Now you go to page 55 and go to Turn Heel.
Row 1: (RS) knit 18, ssk (see the explanation for this on the bottom left hand side of page 133), knit 1, turn your work.
Row 2: follow the book instructions for the rest of this section of Turn Heel.

I hope this is ok? Barby this is your first sock magical step! Please enjoy it to the fullest and you will see what I mean. Trust me on this! :thumbup:


----------



## 5mmdpns

Grandma M said:


> I have my book on order and have made my guage however it is coming out 6 stitches per inch so I will have to buy a #3 as I do not have one. So as soon as I can get that I will start my knitting project. Sould be able to start this Tuesday Oct 2.
> I have the pattern printed out and can do all the stitches and have worked db pt many times so all is A ok
> My only question still remains I have 14 inch leg- seems I'd better cast on more than 56 to start with . My foot is 10 1/4 inch so I assume at some point I would have to decrease my stitches. When would that occur? If you would help me on those 2 questions I think I can proceed with the whole project. thank you


Wait for the book. The pattern you want to follow is on page 56 of the book which is written for a gauge of 6 stitches per inch.

For your particular leg and foot, you do have to tweak the pattern.

Leg: 14" x 6st/inch = 84 stitches cast on. 
Foot: 10.25" x 6st/inch = 61.5 stitches -> 62 stitches on the needles for the foot.

When you cast on 84 stitches, your heel flap will be knit on half of these stitches (42 stitches) for 42 rows. You will work the short rows of the Row 1 as follows: Row 1 (RS) K 21, ssk, k1, turn. Then keep following the pattern.

Gusset: Your stitches you pick up along the side of the heel flap will be 21 plus one stitch. You will adjust the numbers to fit your sock numbers. You will continue the decreases until you have 62 stitches on your needles and then you are good to go for knitting the rest of your foot.


----------



## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here I am again...I've finished my 32 rows of Heel Flap and now i'm ready for the Turn. I've read pages 28 - 29 and looked the pictures over and I still can't make heads or tails out of it. I need your words of wisdom to get this through my thick skull. If you can tell me the purpose of this step that might helpl too. Thanks so much. I think I've been knitting too long today.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where you blindly have to trust the sock instructions and is truly the magical part of sock knitting. Up to now you have been knitting the sock to fit your leg and the back of your heel. It is all one straight piece. Now you have to make the bottom of the foot. You start this where the back of the heel joins the bottom of the heel.
> 
> For a detailed demonstration, I am going to have you put on this sock. (Make sure you have elastics on the ends of your needles so the stitches dont come off the needles). Pull up the sock until the heel flap just touches the floor. Looking at this, you see that you now have to knit the sole of your sock. To do this you need to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom of the heel flap. This is the purpose of the heel turn.
> 
> I would suggest that if you have your heel flap stitches split between two needles, you put them all onto one needle so that the right side of your work faces you and the working yarn is on the right hand side of the left needle which holds the stitches.
> 
> Now you go to page 55 and go to Turn Heel.
> Row 1: (RS) knit 18, ssk (see the explanation for this on the bottom left hand side of page 133), knit 1, turn your work.
> Row 2: follow the book instructions for the rest of this section of Turn Heel.
> 
> I hope this is ok? Barby this is your first sock magical step! Please enjoy it to the fullest and you will see what I mean. Trust me on this! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

OK You said We have been knitting for the leg and the straight back of the heel, my straight back of the heel was 32 rows long and after I put it on wrapped around the back of my heel, over my heel and to my arch of my foot with the pattern's 32 rows. And I counted each of those little rows so I know I have my count right. I can't imagine the heel turn would be in my arch of my foot. I have obviously did something wrong somewhere. Here is a picture of my sock. Hopefully I will load it correctly.


----------



## 5mmdpns

barbyjones said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here I am again...I've finished my 32 rows of Heel Flap and now i'm ready for the Turn. I've read pages 28 - 29 and looked the pictures over and I still can't make heads or tails out of it. I need your words of wisdom to get this through my thick skull. If you can tell me the purpose of this step that might helpl too. Thanks so much. I think I've been knitting too long today.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where you blindly have to trust the sock instructions and is truly the magical part of sock knitting. Up to now you have been knitting the sock to fit your leg and the back of your heel. It is all one straight piece. Now you have to make the bottom of the foot. You start this where the back of the heel joins the bottom of the heel.
> 
> For a detailed demonstration, I am going to have you put on this sock. (Make sure you have elastics on the ends of your needles so the stitches dont come off the needles). Pull up the sock until the heel flap just touches the floor. Looking at this, you see that you now have to knit the sole of your sock. To do this you need to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom of the heel flap. This is the purpose of the heel turn.
> 
> I would suggest that if you have your heel flap stitches split between two needles, you put them all onto one needle so that the right side of your work faces you and the working yarn is on the right hand side of the left needle which holds the stitches.
> 
> Now you go to page 55 and go to Turn Heel.
> Row 1: (RS) knit 18, ssk (see the explanation for this on the bottom left hand side of page 133), knit 1, turn your work.
> Row 2: follow the book instructions for the rest of this section of Turn Heel.
> 
> I hope this is ok? Barby this is your first sock magical step! Please enjoy it to the fullest and you will see what I mean. Trust me on this! :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK You said We have been knitting for the leg and the straight back of the heel, my straight back of the heel was 32 rows long and after I put it on wrapped around the back of my heel, over my heel and to my arch of my foot with the pattern's 32 rows. And I counted each of those little rows so I know I have my count right. I can't imagine the heel turn would be in my arch of my foot. I have obviously did something wrong somewhere. Here is a picture of my sock. Hopefully I will load it correctly.
Click to expand...

Hi Barby!! I do believe you did knit more rows than is necessary for the heel flap. On average, the heel flap is about 2 inches long sometimes only 1.5 inches and sometimes 2.5 inches, depending on the size of the foot the sock is being knitted for.

I would like you to try the sock back on and note where the heel flap comes down to meet the floor when your foot is flat on the floor. This is where the heel flap should end. There is about half of the heel flap you need to frog out.

Before you frog it out, with the right side facing you, take another dpn, run it through the little vee's of one of the rows and make sure you include the slip stitches at the beginning/end of the row. Now you can frog back to where the dpn is half way back down the heel flap.

It is easier to run the needle through the vee's when frogging, rather than to try and pick up the little loops left when the knitting has been frogged. When you run the dpn through the heel flap, you only need one needle rather than two needles, so you can remove one of the needles that is now at the end of your heel flap and use it to run through the vee's. This is called a lifeline and sometimes it is done with a darning needle and a contrasting color of yarn. If it is done with the contrasting yarn, you will need to run the dpn along this contrasting yarn to pick up the vee's.

Note to everyone: When gauge swatches are knit and only the number of stitches horizontally are counted, it is because of what Barby just experienced. That being the number of rows in a pattern is not always accurate. Knowing this, the knitter can knit less or more rows to make up the number of inches required to have the item fit. It is a wise and important lesson to note. Barby will never make this innocent mistake again and I hope that no one else does either but rather takes the mistake and learns from it. In knitting, there are no "bad" mistakes, only mistakes are made so that we can improve our knitting knowledge. Knitting mistakes can always be corrected.


----------



## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here I am again...I've finished my 32 rows of Heel Flap and now i'm ready for the Turn. I've read pages 28 - 29 and looked the pictures over and I still can't make heads or tails out of it. I need your words of wisdom to get this through my thick skull. If you can tell me the purpose of this step that might helpl too. Thanks so much. I think I've been knitting too long today.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where you blindly have to trust the sock instructions and is truly the magical part of sock knitting. Up to now you have been knitting the sock to fit your leg and the back of your heel. It is all one straight piece. Now you have to make the bottom of the foot. You start this where the back of the heel joins the bottom of the heel.
> 
> For a detailed demonstration, I am going to have you put on this sock. (Make sure you have elastics on the ends of your needles so the stitches dont come off the needles). Pull up the sock until the heel flap just touches the floor. Looking at this, you see that you now have to knit the sole of your sock. To do this you need to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom of the heel flap. This is the purpose of the heel turn.
> 
> I would suggest that if you have your heel flap stitches split between two needles, you put them all onto one needle so that the right side of your work faces you and the working yarn is on the right hand side of the left needle which holds the stitches.
> 
> Now you go to page 55 and go to Turn Heel.
> Row 1: (RS) knit 18, ssk (see the explanation for this on the bottom left hand side of page 133), knit 1, turn your work.
> Row 2: follow the book instructions for the rest of this section of Turn Heel.
> 
> I hope this is ok? Barby this is your first sock magical step! Please enjoy it to the fullest and you will see what I mean. Trust me on this! :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK You said We have been knitting for the leg and the straight back of the heel, my straight back of the heel was 32 rows long and after I put it on wrapped around the back of my heel, over my heel and to my arch of my foot with the pattern's 32 rows. And I counted each of those little rows so I know I have my count right. I can't imagine the heel turn would be in my arch of my foot. I have obviously did something wrong somewhere. Here is a picture of my sock. Hopefully I will load it correctly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Barby!! I do believe you did knit more rows than is necessary for the heel flap. On average, the heel flap is about 2 inches long sometimes only 1.5 inches and sometimes 2.5 inches, depending on the size of the foot the sock is being knitted for.
> 
> I would like you to try the sock back on and note where the heel flap comes down to meet the floor when your foot is flat on the floor. This is where the heel flap should end. There is about half of the heel flap you need to frog out.
> 
> Before you frog it out, with the right side facing you, take another dpn, run it through the little vee's of one of the rows and make sure you include the slip stitches at the beginning/end of the row. Now you can frog back to where the dpn is half way back down the heel flap.
> 
> It is easier to run the needle through the vee's when frogging, rather than to try and pick up the little loops left when the knitting has been frogged. When you run the dpn through the heel flap, you only need one needle rather than two needles, so you can remove one of the needles that is now at the end of your heel flap and use it to run through the vee's. This is called a lifeline and sometimes it is done with a darning needle and a contrasting color of yarn. If it is done with the contrasting yarn, you will need to run the dpn along this contrasting yarn to pick up the vee's.
> 
> Note to everyone: When gauge swatches are knit and only the number of stitches horizontally are counted, it is because of what Barby just experienced. That being the number of rows in a pattern is not always accurate. Knowing this, the knitter can knit less or more rows to make up the number of inches required to have the item fit. It is a wise and important lesson to note. Barby will never make this innocent mistake again and I hope that no one else does either but rather takes the mistake and learns from it. In knitting, there are no "bad" mistakes, only mistakes are made so that we can improve our knitting knowledge. Knitting mistakes can always be corrected.
Click to expand...

Well, this makes more sense to me now. I understand the heel turn being on the heel now instead of in my arch. I'll get to work on the life line with the dpn and froggingn to that point. If I'm understanding the heel turn I'm working only a partial row not the sides correct??


----------



## 5mmdpns

_I understand the heel turn being on the heel now instead of in my arch. I'll get to work on the life line with the dpn and froggingn to that point. If I'm understanding the heel turn I'm working only a partial row not the sides correct?? says Barbyjones_

You are right. You are making the turn without knitting the sides of the turn. When you knit the sides, this is where you will pick up the slipped stitches along the heel flap and knit them. This is the gusset area.


----------



## 5mmdpns

barbyjones said:


> So I'm blindly following the pattern like you told me to and I ran in to a problem. Rwo 1 left me with 14 stitches on a needle. Row 2 left me with 9 stitches on a needles and now I an ready for row 3 and all my needles are occupied and have no needles to work with. not to mention the fact I don't understand what it is telling me to do in the instructions for row 3. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this work shop. I have never read a knitting pattern before, do not understand the terminology, and I'm a little mroe than frustrated at this point in time. Sorry...had to vent.


Venting is over, and now let us see what you have done! Post me a picture of what your knitting is like at this moment before you do anything.

Did you put all your heel flap stitches onto one needle? You need to do this to work the heel turn. You should have 32 stitches all on one needle. (In your picture at the top of page 9 in this forum, you have them divided onto two needles). This is done before you start Row 1. Then you will have two dpns with no stitches on them. This is plenty of needles! Let me know about this and we go from there.


----------



## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I had started to cast on the 56 stitches for the sample pattern and not bother of the socks fitted me or not. However, I should do something that I will feel good about it.
> 
> I bought the needles the pattern suggested and the yarn you recommended, Bernat softer baby.
> 
> My foot is small. I measured it, and the widest part is 8", the length is 8 1/2", and the place where I would like the cuff and leg to be is 7", because I would like a short cuff, maybe with 1" for the leg, I.e., close to the ankle.
> 
> Would it be possible to get your opinion about the cast on and the other details I should know before embarking on the project?
> 
> I know I am very behind in comparison with the others in the group.
> 
> Thank you.


You are perfectly on time for the sock knitting because you are you and you are not robmac or jmai who are on their third pair of socks. You are where you are supposed to be for you. This is not any competition, there is only the goal of knitting and understanding how to knit basic socks using dpns.

The cast on stitches are very important. You need the correct number of stitches to cast on so that the sock fits your foot. You may need to be trying on the sock as you go along. To this end, I would like you to knit a gauge swatch. You need only to cast on about 24 stitches and knit for two inches to measure your gauge. Would you please do that? then we can figure out the correct number of stitches to cast on so the socks fit you!


----------



## barbyjones

5mmdpns said:


> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm blindly following the pattern like you told me to and I ran in to a problem. Rwo 1 left me with 14 stitches on a needle. Row 2 left me with 9 stitches on a needles and now I an ready for row 3 and all my needles are occupied and have no needles to work with. not to mention the fact I don't understand what it is telling me to do in the instructions for row 3. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this work shop. I have never read a knitting pattern before, do not understand the terminology, and I'm a little mroe than frustrated at this point in time. Sorry...had to vent.
> 
> 
> 
> Venting is over, and now let us see what you have done! Post me a picture of what your knitting is like at this moment before you do anything.
> 
> Did you put all your heel flap stitches onto one needle? You need to do this to work the heel turn. You should have 32 stitches all on one needle. (In your picture at the top of page 9 in this forum, you have them divided onto two needles). This is done before you start Row 1. Then you will have two dpns with no stitches on them. This is plenty of needles! Let me know about this and we go from there.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did what you told me to do, I put all 32 stitches on one needle. and yes I did go back and tink back to where the heel flap just touched the floor and put the one needle through in place of the two needles so I have one needle with 32 stitches on it. Worked row 1 and had stitches left over so I left them on a needle. Worked row 2 had stitches left over from that row so I left those unwored stitches on a needle so here I am with my heel turn with three needles one from row one with unworked stitches another from row 2 with unworeked stitches and row 3 ready to work that I don't understand how to begin. So confused


----------



## barbyjones

You are so sweet! You have no idea how close I am to giving up. I have had to frog so many times i feel like a toad! I keep telling myself this is a fun thing and not to let it get to me. Keep smiling. keep smiling 



triana said:


> Oh Barbyjones, please don't give up. If it wasn't for you asking your questions, I wouldn't be able to follow the pattern either!!!!!!! I'm sure I'm not the only one thankful for your ability to explain where you're at. Please, please keep going!
> 
> 
> barbyjones said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm blindly following the pattern like you told me to and I ran in to a problem. Rwo 1 left me with 14 stitches on a needle. Row 2 left me with 9 stitches on a needles and now I an ready for row 3 and all my needles are occupied and have no needles to work with. not to mention the fact I don't understand what it is telling me to do in the instructions for row 3. I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew with this work shop. I have never read a knitting pattern before, do not understand the terminology, and I'm a little mroe than frustrated at this point in time. Sorry...had to vent.
Click to expand...


----------



## 5mmdpns

_I have one needle with 32 stitches on it. Worked row 1 and had stitches left over so I left them on a needle. Worked row 2 had stitches left over from that row so I left those unwored stitches on a needle so here I am with my heel turn with three needles one from row one with unworked stitches another from row 2 with unworeked stitches and row 3 ready to work that I don't understand how to begin. So confused.  says Barby_

When you take and knit Row 1: Knit 18, ssk, k1 you WILL have stitches left over on the needle that you will not have knit. That is ok and that is exactly what you are to have. Now you have some stitches on two needles. On your right hand needle you will now have 20 stitches. On your left hand needle (that used to have 32 stitchs on) you should have 11 stitches. That is okay that is as it should be.
Now turn your work -- turn both needles at once as if they were all on one needle. Your right hand needle (20 sts) is now your left hand needle. Your left hand needle (11 sts) is now your right hand needle. Now with the needle that has the 11 stitches on and the working yarn coming off the needle that has the 20 stitches on you will knit Row 2 as follows: onto the needle in your right hand (11 sts) you will proceed to slip one purlwise, purl 5, purl two together, purl one. Now on this right hand needle you will have in total 19 stitches. 
Now turn both needles so that the right hand needle is now in your left hand, and your left hand needle is now in your right hand. Now you will knit Row 3. After you knit Row 3, you will knit Row 4 and follow the rest of the instructions for the Heel Turn.

Now you are not a toad, you are someone who needs a bit more instruction directions and explaining. That is ok. No giving up on this sock. I have NOT given up on you!!! Now you may smile because it is all good!!


----------



## robmac

5mmdpns you are so good at explaining how to do things. I was thinking about how to tell her to do this, I didn't because I knew I would mess her up even worse. You are the best. Thanks again for doing this workshop. I have knitted several pairs, but I am still learning from you.


----------



## 5mmdpns

robmac said:


> 5mmdpns you are so good at explaining how to do things. I was thinking about how to tell her to do this, I didn't because I knew I would mess her up even worse. You are the best. Thanks again for doing this workshop. I have knitted several pairs, but I am still learning from you.


There is never a time when I knit a pair of socks that I dont learn something new. This never changes even though I have been a socker since I was ten! BTW, the Getting Started Knitting Socks is one of my books that I just love to pick up and read just because it is a great read! This makes knitting such a great and new experience every time! Ok, I will get off my sock soap box for a few minutes while get a glass of ice water .... BRB (be right back).


----------



## Elaine.Fitz

Hi, 

I am sending you my info on the socks. I have just been able to get started figuring out what pattern to use, as I have been away visiting my father.

I am using Vanna's glamour #2 fine yarn acrylic/polyester on #3 needles. My swatch came out to 13st/2 inch --6.5 st/in. I measured my widest circumference at 8 1/2". 

6 x 8.5 = 51.0 sts

6.5 x 8.5 = 55.25 sts (my actual measurement)

7 x 8.5 = 59.5 sts

I was debating between 6 or 7 sts / " sock pattern.
Since the 55.25 std is closer to the 52 sts of 7 sts sock pattern than the 44 of the 6 sts sock pattern, I think I should use the 7 std sock pattern on page 54.

The one question I have is whether this is the correct pattern I should use given my circumference was 8 1/2 " not 8 1/4 ". I think this will be close enough, but wanted to check with you. I didn't know if I should have calculated the sts for 8 1/4 " and if those results could help me in my final determination or not. I will wait to hear from you before beginning and I really do appreciate your time helping me. 
Elaine


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## 5mmdpns

_I am using Vanna's glamour #2 fine yarn acrylic/polyester on #3 needles. My swatch came out to 13st/2 inch --6.5 st/in. I measured my widest circumference at 8 1/2". says Elaine.Fitz_

6.5" x 8.5" = 55.25 stitches to cast on. In the book, every basic sock pattern follows the same pattern with the only difference being the number of stitches to cast on, so you will follow the pattern that calls for 55.25 stitches to cast on. Since there is no pattern calling for a 55.25 stitch cast on, you will round up to 56 stitches to cast on. (I have been through every basic sock pattern in the book and know this for a fact) :thumbup:

So the pattern on page 56 has a 56 stitch pattern. My recommendation is to go with that one. There are enough numbers to keep track of and the two numbers match each other -- page 56, 56 stitch cast on. Circle in pencil all the coordinating numbers that apply to the 56 stitch cast on.

Just for everyone's information, when determining a cast on number, it is always best to round up to the closest number it matches in the pattern. This is because any knitted piece of clothing is better to be a little too big rather than too small. Too small can not be worn, but a bit too big can be worn.


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## Nilda muniz

I did my swatch and have 12 stitches/2 inches: 6 stitches would be my gauge.

The problem is that the widest part of my foot is 8". 
I used DPN #2 and the yarn is Bernat softee baby.

If I cast on 48 stitches, would that create a lot of additional calculations for me as i go along with the pattern, since the pattern you suggested is for 56 cast on stitches?

Shall I add to the swatch on DPN #3 and see if I get a total of 56 stitches for cast on?

Please advise.


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## Elaine.Fitz

Thanks, 5mmdpns, I am so glad I checked with you before casting on! What you said made perfect sense and I would have never thought of that way to do it! Now I understand.


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## Cyndyn

OK it takes me to mess up a safety pin.....Now I have a hole!! I have the right number of stitches but what did I do wrong??? and what do I do to fix it.


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I did my swatch and have 12 stitches/2 inches: 6 stitches would be my gauge.
> 
> The problem is that the widest part of my foot is 8".
> I used DPN #2 and the yarn is Bernat softee baby.
> 
> If I cast on 48 stitches, would that create a lot of additional calculations for me as i go along with the pattern, since the pattern you suggested is for 56 cast on stitches?
> 
> Shall I add to the swatch on DPN #3 and see if I get a total of 56 stitches for cast on?
> 
> Please advise.


When knitting from a pattern, you want to aim for the suggested gauge in order to get the pattern called for. You have the pattern printed off right, not the book?

However, if you get a swatch of 6st = 1" with US2 needles and are aiming for a gauge of 7st = 1" then you need to use a smaller needle, not a larger needle.

With the Bernat Softee Baby yarn which is a #3 weight, your US2 needles are a 2.75mm size and you get 6st = 1". I would go to a 2.5mm needle and reswatch.

Going with a smaller needle would be pointless as there is no way that this weight of yarn will be suitable for a gauge of 8st = 1". The sock would end up being knit too tight and there will be no stretch to it, making the sock a very uncomfortable item to wear.

If you can not find a 2.5mm needle set, you may just wish to do some quick recalculations and go with the 48 stitch cast on. There is no cooresponding US needle size with a 2.5mm. The US1 needle is equal to the 2.25mm size.

The sock pattern is a matter of working in halves. ie. Cast on 48 stitches. Heel flap is worked on half of these stitches -> 24 st. for about 24 rows. To turn the heel, go with half plus two to knit to for the first row before doing the ssk, knit 1. Turn. Start Row2. etc. Again go with half the number of heel flap rows and you get the number of stitches to pick up along the heel flap is 12 plus one for the corner of the gusset. Follow the decrease instructions for the gusset area to get back to the number of cast on stitches of 48. Knit your foot the required length and then decrease for the toes as per pattern, kitchener off and presto! you have one sock knit and you cast on for the mate.

Just as a BTW, for everyone who is knitting the basic sock from the cuff down, the principle of halves is for all the sock's instructions. Ann Budd, in her book Getting Started Knitting Socks, has done all these calculations for you and you simply turn to the pattern that matches your number of cast on stitches. You can apply this principle to any sock size you need to knit, right from the two year old size to a men's size 12 shoe size.


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## 5mmdpns

Cyndyn said:


> OK it takes me to mess up a safety pin.....Now I have a hole!! I have the right number of stitches but what did I do wrong??? and what do I do to fix it.


Hi Cyndy, looks like when you placed your stitch marker, you only looped it through one stitch loop, that being the front of the loop. You needed to put it _around_ the complete stitch -- both the front and the back loops of the stitch.

To get this extra bit of yarn worked into the rest of the stitches, will take a bit of jiggling and wiggling. Take out the stitch marker and put it around the front and back sides of the stitch. Now put some elastics around the ends of the needles and gently by stretching and "worrying" the yarn, you can work the extra yarn into the rest of the stitches before and after this stitch. When you are done knitting the sock, you will watch and block it and no one will be the wiser that there was this bit of error done. No worries, as they say "it will all come out in the wash". :lol:


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## Cyndyn

So no getting it back up to the needle, just wiggling it .....won't it leave a whole above? 

I really feel stupid but I don't get the safety pin thing. If I put it around the stitch that it's on now, won't it just fall off? I feel really dumb!! I think I think I need a visual.


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## 5mmdpns

Cyndyn said:


> Sorry I'm just so mad that I messed up!!! I will go back and read more and write less.


Oh Cyndy, sorry about all this. Relax! The knitting is all meant to be enjoyed and dont beat yourself up about it!!! It is all good stuff. No worries at all.

Now take a deep breath and while you are holding your knitting, take a little look at the stitches on your needle. You will look at ONE stitch and never mind any of the others. You will see that there is a front strand of yarn that loops over the top of the needle and comes down the back side of the needle. It is all one stitch. There is the front "loop" called the front leg and there is the back "loop" which is called the back leg. It is all one strand of yarn. 
When you insert your open stitch holder (like a safety pin), you have to put it around both the front and the back legs of the stitch. Currently, your stitch holder is only on the front leg and so has stretched the front leg a bit. No big deal. It can be reworked into the rest of the row. :thumbup:
If you are putting the stitch marker around the stitch as you knit it, then your next stitch that you knit above this stitch will hold the stitch marker in place.
If you are using a closed stitch marker, the closed stitch marker only is on the needle and not around the stitch. As you knit the stitch before the closed stitch marker, take care that the closed stitch marker does not slip off and get lost. Slip the marker onto the right hand needle, now go ahead and knit the next stitch.

For the moment, you might have a bit of a hole where your stitch has stretched out of shape but it is all worked into the surrounding stitches and then when it is washed and blocked, you will never find the hole.  (Sometimes a stitch has been stretched way too much to ever find a way out of the hole and then the knitting needs to be frogged back to it. I do not think that this is the case here as the stretch is very small.)


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> Wow, this is too much for me to digest at this moment. Let me go with the 48 stitches and see how far I can get before I asked you to come to my rescue. I really don't want to give up on knitting socks.


As you go along and knit your sock, these numbers will fall into place and you will be able to comprehend what this principle of halves is really all about. It is all good stuff and you will get the hang of it!!


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## 5mmdpns

baglady1104 said:


> I'm knitting the heel flap and wondering where I'm picking up an extra stitch at the end of every row. They seem to be orphan stitches, not attached to the working yarn, and they don't ravel out. I've been dropping them off in order to keep 28 stitches on my working needle. I've paid attention and still can't tell where these extra stitches are coming from.


I am not sure where they are coming from either. Are you slipping the first stitch purlwise for each row? Where are you "dropping" them off? ie. at what place on your needles -- the beginning, the middle, the end? :?:

It is the slipped stitch at the beginning of each row that you will be picking up along the heel flap to knit for the gusset.


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## jmai5421

My 1st pair of socks using the book. Also a miscalculation in number of yards needed for a pair of socks. I started out with 2-50gm Patons Kroy Jaquards knitting both together with 10 dpn's size 2. Look what happened. Luckily I did it this way( two at once) and will beable to fix with some matching or contrasting sock yarn.


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## 5mmdpns

Jmai, your socks look very lovely! And I can see that as the leg is rather longish, you will have run out of yarn for the toes. So you will want to make note of this fact for the future. You would have been great with 3 balls of this yarn to complete the socks. I do like your color choice. It would be nice to have some patterned yarn that is self striping. Thank you for your picture of them!


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## jmai5421

5mmdpns said:


> Jmai, you could also plan for another pair of socks of the Patons Sock Jacquards. You can make the cuffs and toes a matching solid color and the self-striping yarn can be in between the two "ends" of the socks!
> 
> Hey, nice snow fall you had! We had this too! Still a little snow falling.


OMG, you read my mind. I got another two skeins of Patons Jaquard sock yarn from my stash to begin another pair with that in mind-the heel and toes in red or navy. The color name is crayon jaquard. I got ready to cast on when I realized all of my #2 needles are still in the other socks. I will finish when we get back to southern MN and then start the new pair.. That is good. I won't have a wip. My daughter has some clinic appointments in Rochester that I have to play chauffer and wait for her(she has MS and is in a wheelchair). That is perfect time to begin the cuffs of new socks and do mindless knitting. I love it when I have to do this-so much time for knitting without feeling guilty about neglecting housework.
The snow was a gift from Canada. It is still coming beautiful and thick, heavy and wet, but unfortunately now melting when it hits the ground and last nights has begun to melt. I almost went out and made a snowman. Please send more along with a little colder temp so it stays.
I enjoy watching the kids play in the snow but unfortunately up here there are only 5 families(couples) on our road. There are 4 here now 3 our age and grandparents and one in his late 80's and a great grandpa no children to watch.


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## baglady1104

5mmdpns said:


> baglady1104 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm knitting the heel flap and wondering where I'm picking up an extra stitch at the end of every row. They seem to be orphan stitches, not attached to the working yarn, and they don't ravel out. I've been dropping them off in order to keep 28 stitches on my working needle. I've paid attention and still can't tell where these extra stitches are coming from.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure where they are coming from either. Are you slipping the first stitch purlwise for each row? Where are you "dropping" them off? ie. at what place on your needles -- the beginning, the middle, the end? :?:
> 
> It is the slipped stitch at the beginning of each row that you will be picking up along the heel flap to knit for the gusset.
Click to expand...

Hello 5mmdpns. I've looked at the work with fresh eyes and in a better light, but still can't tell where those extra stitches came from. The stitches look okay on the needle, with no gaps or bumps. I'm dropping the extras off at the end of the row and fear it is going to make a mess of picking up stitches for the gusset. At any rate, I have houseguests for the weekend so won't be doing much knitting. Maybe the stitch fairy will come and straighten it out, har har. Oh--yes, I am slipping the first stitch of each row purlwise.


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> Hi 5mmdpn update
> I am doing the boot socks I am using Bernet denim style yarn
> Cast on 52 st. On 3.50 but instead of decreasing I went down in needle sizes 35 st on 3.25. 50 st on 2.75 65 st. On 2.25 I have about 2 " to go to the heel my question is do I have to go up in kneeled size for the heel an d how do I tell when to start the heel I forgot I am doing the whole sock in k1p1 where an when do I switch to plain stitching for the bottom I hope you understand all this thank you Jean


Jeanbess, you will try on your sock to make sure it is still fitting to your leg. You pull up the sock to where you want the cuff to be sitting on your leg. When you get to the part of your foot that starts the bend at the front of your foot, you will start your heel flap. It is where the ankle has narrowed and then begins to widen. Look on page 4 of this forum and you will see where the top of the heel flap and the top of the blue part of #4 meets the yellow leg on the anatomy of a sock.

How many stitches do you have on the needle? And will you have to go up in size to get the sock big enough to go over your foot/ankle? If you are noticing that your sock no longer will stretch nicely and give you still more wiggle room, then your tension is too tight and you will have to frog back to where the sock is still stretchy and then rather than decreasing the size of the needle, you will have to decrease the number of stitches. You dont want a sock that has no stretch to it. You still need a bit of stretch to the sock even after it is put on.


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## 5mmdpns

There are also instructions that I posted as to how to post a picture and there are instructions as to how to post a picture in the Help section that Administration has also set up from the time that Knitting Paradise started. I am sure that in one of the postings, you will all find how to do this! :thumbup:

Click on *How to post a picture*, or scroll down the page until you get to it. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-1-1.html#64
-----------------------


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## 5mmdpns

All you sockers give me a delightful chuckle over my morning coffee!

Jmai, I do believe you are safe from my weather as it is too miserable for it to want to go anywheres else. It is going to stick around to see what yarn I come up with for my comfy socks. One thing about counting the rows for the heel flap, most sock knitters tend to over-count them. The best way to count them is to count the number of loops made along the heel flap and that are there from the first slipped stitches of each row.

Cyndy, please do refresh my memory over the problems with your sock. Problems need to be poked at so we know how to fix them.

Roberta, you need to have a holiday so you can devote the day to everything socks!!! haha, I think that is why we have long weekends!

With the wet cold weather settling in, I know that there are those who are going to be suffering the aches and pains of arthritis in the hands. Just as a knitting tip, I find that a pair of fingerless gloves or some tension support gloves for the hands helps me. Sometimes just having a hot water bottle in your lap also helps so that you can rest your hands on it every few minutes while you knit.


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## rpuhrmann

5mmdpns-unfortunately, I work the same days each week. There are no holidays for us. I will be taking the last 2 days, plus Nov. 1st off for vacation, or I lose it. lol Yay!

I think that's a good idea about the water bottle in our lap. I'll have to try that. Also, if I'm going to use larger needles and thread, I won't have such a hard time anymore. Yay again! lol

Roberta



5mmdpns said:


> All you sockers give me a delightful chuckle over my morning coffee!
> 
> Jmai, I do believe you are safe from my weather as it is too miserable for it to want to go anywheres else. It is going to stick around to see what yarn I come up with for my comfy socks. One thing about counting the rows for the heel flap, most sock knitters tend to over-count them. The best way to count them is to count the number of loops made along the heel flap and that are there from the first slipped stitches of each row.
> 
> Cyndy, please do refresh my memory over the problems with your sock. Problems need to be poked at so we know how to fix them.
> 
> Roberta, you need to have a holiday so you can devote the day to everything socks!!! haha, I think that is why we have long weekends!
> 
> With the wet cold weather settling in, I know that there are those who are going to be suffering the aches and pains of arthritis in the hands. Just as a knitting tip, I find that a pair of fingerless gloves or some tension support gloves for the hands helps me. Sometimes just having a hot water bottle in your lap also helps so that you can rest your hands on it every few minutes while you knit.


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## 5mmdpns

Roberta, I went looking for the Ali's Anklet pattern link I thought I had posted and seem to have missed getting back on here when the "official" start day began. Here it is for you and if you make the gauge to be 4stitches per inch by using larger needles (US 6 or 7), and the worsted weight yarn (#4) then you will get a nice slipper sock. If you wished you can go up to a bulkly/chunky yarn of #5 weight and get a stitch count of 3.5 stitches per inch with a US7 needle, you will get a nicer slipper sock and one that will come a bit bigger yet.
http://www.knitwits-heaven.com/all_anklets.htm


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## KnottyMe

Welcome back 5mmdpns! I made a lot of socks last year with worsted weight and only one crummy one with sock yarn. I'm glad to be urged back into sock knitting using sock yarn. This pair is turning out great! I'm using the Ann Budd pattern. I noticed some strange stitches on the heel, though, but I guess these are normal? I never saw them before now, probably because of the color of yarn. Are these occurring because of the heel short rows or from picking up stitches for the gusset? They are the more vertical stitches in this picture.


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## 5mmdpns

KnottyMe said:


> I'm using the Ann Budd pattern. I noticed some strange stitches on the heel, though, but I guess these are normal? I never saw them before now, probably because of the color of yarn. Are these occurring because of the heel short rows or from picking up stitches for the gusset? They are the more vertical stitches in this picture.


* FEEDBACK and Direction  *
KnottyMe, these "strange" stitches look exactly like they are supposed to look. They are the decrease stitches you made while you were turning the heel. You go right ahead and give yourself a pat on the back! They look perfect and are all the same size and evenly knitted without any holes or loose strands. Very nice indeed! 

They only look a little more pronounced because of the varigated yarn colors. This is all good though and not to worry about it at all!!!


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## KnottyMe

5mmdpns said:


> KnottyMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I needed that.
> 
> 
> 
> And you absolutely got it! BTW, I saved your photo to my file and want to know if I can use it in any future workshops as to what this heel turn stitchwork is to look like.
Click to expand...

I'm flattered!! Absolutely you can use it, even though the heels look a little funny. I used a brighter yellow yarn to reinforce the heel as I have discovered that's where I wear socks out the most.


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## 5mmdpns

robmac said:


> I am so glad our teacher could stay with us. If you need anything 5mm just let me know dear friend.


hi friend! I would love for you to share with us the "new" sock sole you are intending to knit for these socks you are working on! I think our minds are good to stretch in that direction!


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## 5mmdpns

KnottyMe said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KnottyMe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I needed that.
> 
> 
> 
> And you absolutely got it! BTW, I saved your photo to my file and want to know if I can use it in any future workshops as to what this heel turn stitchwork is to look like.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm flattered!! Absolutely you can use it, even though the heels look a little funny. I used a brighter yellow yarn to reinforce the heel as I have discovered that's where I wear socks out the most.
Click to expand...

It is perfect! And I am glad you could use a bit of extra reinforcing yarn where it is needed. Was it difficult for you to add it in and at what point did you start to add in the yarn? no knots I hope in the joining of it!  Other knitters may want to use this information on future socks they knit up! :thumbup:


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## KnottyMe

> I'm flattered!! Absolutely you can use it, even though the heels look a little funny. I used a brighter yellow yarn to reinforce the heel as I have discovered that's where I wear socks out the most.





> It is perfect! And I am glad you could use a bit of extra reinforcing yarn where it is needed. Was it difficult for you to add it in and at what point did you start to add in the yarn? no knots I hope in the joining of it!  Other knitters may want to use this information on future socks they knit up! :thumbup:


No knots!! That's NOT the meaning of my moniker! It's just that my life is knotty at times....um....but that's another blog. _hee hee _

* REINFORCED HEEL *
I simply overlap the reinforcing yarn and started knitting both together when starting the heel-turning process, then I cut the reinforcement (leaving a few inches) before I pick up gusset stitches. It leaves two threads to weave in but I'm not bothered by doing that if it extends the life of my socks. I try to use yarn that is of equivalent or lesser weight.


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## 5mmdpns

KnottyMe said:


> I'm flattered!! Absolutely you can use it, even though the heels look a little funny. I used a brighter yellow yarn to reinforce the heel as I have discovered that's where I wear socks out the most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is perfect! And I am glad you could use a bit of extra reinforcing yarn where it is needed. Was it difficult for you to add it in and at what point did you start to add in the yarn? no knots I hope in the joining of it!  Other knitters may want to use this information on future socks they knit up! :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No knots!! That's NOT the meaning of my moniker! It's just that my life is knotty at times....um....but that's another blog. _hee hee _
> I simply overlap the reinforcing yarn and started knitting both together when starting the heel-turning process, then I cut the reinforcement (leaving a few inches) before I pick up gusset stitches. It leaves two threads to weave in but I'm not bothered by doing that if it extends the life of my socks. I try to use yarn that is of equivalent or lesser weight.
Click to expand...

What a perfect idea and concept to use!! Thanks for sharing that with us all!


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## robmac

5mmdpns, I am going to use the heel stitch on the sole of my socks for that extra cushion effect, plus it should reinforce the hole bottom of the sock. I have never had a sock wear thin any other place.(Usually it is the heel) what I intend to do is, do the slip one knit one over the sole part and then regular knit on the top part or continue in ribbing, which ever way you want to do it.(IE in pattern if doing a pattern.) If I am thinking correct you would do it just like the heel, but since you aren't working back and forth like the heel, you would do one row of slip 1 knit 1, and then a row of knit.


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## 5mmdpns

robmac said:


> 5mmdpns, I am going to use the heel stitch on the sole of my socks for that extra cushion effect, plus it should reinforce the hole bottom of the sock. I have never had a sock wear thin any other place.(Usually it is the heel) what I intend to do is, do the slip one knit one over the sole part and then regular knit on the top part or continue in ribbing, which ever way you want to do it.(IE in pattern if doing a pattern.) If I am thinking correct you would do it just like the heel, but since you aren't working back and forth like the heel, you would do one row of slip 1 knit 1, and then a row of knit.


That should also make for a cushy-comfortable thick sole! Nice one! This is also an example of tweaking the pattern, just as Knotty shared her pattern tweak. Tweak on SockOn! :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

jmai5421 said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robmac said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am so glad our teacher could stay with us. If you need anything 5mm just let me know dear friend.
> 
> 
> 
> hi friend! I would love for you to share with us the "new" sock sole you are intending to knit for these socks you are working on! I think our minds are good to stretch in that direction!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i would be interested in a heavier sole to my socks. Is that what you mean by a new sock sole?
Click to expand...

See what Robmac shared with us on how he intends to knit an entire reinforced sole by using a sock heel stitch pattern. Some sock heels are made by a slip one, knit one across the heel flap. For those with the book there are three heel flap patterns on page 27. He is proposing to go with the standard slip one, knit one for his sock sole. In this manner he is doubling the thickness of the sock sole without adding any extra yarn from another ball of yarn.
Just as a bit more information on this, it is great but you may find you are going to use a little more yarn when you knit the sock. :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> Hi 5mm.
> I am ready to start the heel the sock is 12"all 1x1 rib Instead of decreasing I went down in needl size so I have. 52 st. The same as when I started with On a 2.50needle I could really need your help, how many st do. I work for the heel and witch heel pattern do I use there are several heels in the book do I go up in needle size thank you Jean
> PS I started out with a 3.5needle and am down to 2.5


Hi Jeanbess, looks like you have made a great progress on those boot socks! If you did a 1x1 rib all the way down, it would make perfect sense to me to go with the standard slip 1, knit 1 heel flap as at the top of page 27. You would not go up in needle size. You will put your heel flap stitches all onto one needle. You will also follow the same ridges that you have made up the leg. So your knit stitches on the leg will continue to be your knit stitches down the heel flap. Your purl stitches on the leg will now be your slipped stitches on the heel flap between the knit stitches.

You can adjust your number of stitches on the heel flap by one stitch more or one stitch less in order to keep the pattern. You want the first stitch of the heel flap to be a slipped stitch so this one lines up with the purl stitch below it on the "leg". Ideally, you will put half of the 52 stitches on one needle for the heel flap. So that would be 26 stitches, but if you need to take only 25 stitches for that to work out right for the smooth continuous pattern from the leg down the heel flap, then that is ok. Does that make sense to you? 

When you look at your sock and where the heel flap is going to be started, and you compare them to the instructions I just gave you, then you should be able to fully understand what I am saying. :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> I am knitting the first heel flap on pg27 but mine does not look like that one
> St row sl1 k1 all the way across what do I do on the way back I tried sl1 p1
> What am I doing wrong I also sl one & k1 on the what back that is how. I
> I read the direction but that did not work out


haha, you need to follow the instruction on page 26 for the heel flap rows. But the Row 1 is as on page 27 and the Row 2 is on page 26. You need to read all the page 26 and follow it up to the extra directions on page 27 for the standard heel flap of slip 1, knit 1 on the right side. Row 2 is the wrong side.


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## jeanbess

Idid that but still get all knit stitcheds 1sl1k across than on the wrong side sl1 and p all the way across it does not look like the picture what am I doing wrong Jean


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## robmac

Jean, just a thought, are you doing sl 1, k1, sl 1, k1 on right side, and sl 1 then purl the rest across, or sl 1 p1, sl1 p1. It should be just the first stitch slipped on the wrong side, and then the rest purled. Hope this helps, and definitely not trying to interfere with 5mmdpns teaching. I made this mistake my first attempt at socks.


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## 5mmdpns

Island Knitter said:


> I have finally been able to do my gauge in the round and still have 6 stitches per inch, which is great. But when I took my foot measurements I included my calf measurement as my calves are big (there's no getting around it!). So according to the math for casting on I need to cast on 65 stitches.
> 
> Additional info - I'm using the directions in the book for 6 stitches per inch, using a #3 yarn & size 4us needles.
> 
> My size for my other foot measurements means I should be making the size which has you CO 48 stitches.
> 
> How do I decrease as I knit down my leg to get to the 48 stitches around my ankle? Do I figure out how many stitches I need to decrease (17 I think) and evenly decrease as I knit down?
> 
> I hope I've explained this okay.
> 
> Lesley


You explained it perfectly and yes, this is what you do, decrease as you knit down the leg to get to the 48 stitches around your ankle. You will evenly decrease as you knit down. Start these decreases after you have knit your 2inch cuff. You go ahead and try the sock on as you knit more inches and that is just to ensure that your sock is not going to be knit too tight. You are doing good! 

Change in your pattern cast on from the 6 stitches per inch: go to page 54 to the 7 stitches per inch for your cast on stitching. Which you would do for 64 stitch cast on. When you decrease down your leg, you will go to 48 stitches and follow the pattern for this number back on page 56 from the heel to the rest of the sock. The number of stitches to decrease is 16.

Before you cast on, you want to make sure that it is the right measurement of your leg _at the place on your leg where you want the cuff top to come up to._ ie. On my leg my calf at the widest part is not the same as my leg at the bottom of my calf. I dont wish my socks to come up that high, but only wish them to come up two inches past my ankle. This again is a different measurement, so I need to go with the measurement that is two inches above the ankle when I determine the number of cast on stitches to make. Hope you are able to get this?


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> Idid that but still get all knit stitcheds 1sl1k across than on the wrong side sl1 and p all the way across it does not look like the picture what am I doing wrong Jean


You have to knit the entire heel flap in this manner and then look at the sock again to see the pattern come out. Depending on how loose or tight you are knitting, you may not see the pattern as pronounced as what the book shows in its pictures. That is ok too. Some other factors come into play with it as well and one of those things is the thickness of the yarn you are using, and if the yarn is a solid color, and of course the tension you are using.

One thing might be the look of your stitches. When you were using larger needles, do your stitches look more pronounced than they do now? Does your knitting still have stretch to it compared to the stretch you had at the top of the leg? Just some things to consider.


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## 5mmdpns

Marianne818 said:


> I have finally finished the ribbing part of my sock. Now comes the part I am totally confused about. :roll: I have just ordered the book, (guest coming in caused me to forget to order it, sorry) anyway, what I have read seems like a different language to me :-D but I am going to take my time and keep this open so as to be able to look back at the posts for reference.
> 5dpn's I am so glad that you encouraged me to continue, I guess I'll be purchasing more sets of dpn's so that I can cast on both socks and work alternating knitting time for both socks. That makes a lot of sense to me, thanks for the tip ;-) .
> I have one question, do I put the stitches on a stitch holder and work the other stitches on the 3 needles or just the 2? Maybe I should wait till the book arrives.. so confused, :lol: but loving this work!!
> Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*chuckles* Marianne, I think you may need to take a deep breath here!!! you are fine and your socks will turn out just fine too!
I am not sure which stitches on the 3 needles you are wishing to put on a stitch holder?? and at what point in the knitting are you thinking of this? Are you referring to the needles at the heel flap? :?:


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## 5mmdpns

Hi Rob, you are ok!

*For all sockers:* We are at the point in our sock knitting that things are coming together and making sense, right? More so for some than others simply because some are farther along in the knitting than others. If like Rob, you feel confident in what you have done and feel you would like to share with the rest of us, how you are proceding or you have a tip/hint on something, you can go ahead and share it. If the tip/hint is needing to be tweaked and adjusted, then I can do that. This is all good for us to be in it together. If we were in a group setting all together in one room, I would expect you all to be showing each other your socks and explaining to others how you are doing something in your socks. It is perfectly fine to be helping each other out. And this is the fun part of doing the socks together. :thumbup:


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## jeanbess

robmac said:


> Jean, just a thought, are you doing sl 1, k1, sl 1, k1 on right side, and sl 1 then purl the rest across, or sl 1 p1, sl1 p1. It should be just the first stitch slipped on the wrong side, and then the rest purled. Hope this helps, and definitely not trying to interfere with 5mmdpns teaching. I made this mistake my first attempt at socks.


Thanks Rob yes I am sl 1 than p right across mind you the first time I did the sl p sl but frogged that for it did not look right I am using thicker yarn so I guess it will not look like the book


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## MissMelba

Hello. I am having an issue with my sock. The (big, obvious) problem is under the needle in the photo. This is where I picked up and knit along the heel flap for the gusset. Only one side is wonky, the other side is nice and tight. I am guessing I did something wrong with my slipped stitches, at least I hope the error is something I can easily correct on the next sock. Suggestions to fix and prevent this? I was doing the ssk wrong for a few rows hence the raised decrease but got it right eventually so you can ignore that bit of the sock 

Thanks, 
Melanie

Using Soles & More wool blend sock weight 1 (weird striping going on), dpns size US 3, book page 54 for 7 sts / inch.


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## 5mmdpns

Yes, Miss Melba, it appears that your slipped stitches are pretty loose. If you find that you have done this (and it is never done on purpose) when you knit the stitch you have picked up, then you can make a twist in it when you go to knit it OR/ you can simply pick up the front and the back loops together when you pick up the slipped stitches. Not a problem to do.

Since you are aware now of this problem, you will want to give the last stitch of the previous row a bit of a tug before you turn the work. This will make these slipped stitches a bit tighter.
(Giving the slipped stitch a bit of a tug works the same to snug it in a little more to the needle. So you can do this either way).

The rest of the sock looks wonderfully knit! You have turned the heel very nicely! I am impressed. You have done quite well!

What you can do now, is to "worrie" the loose slipped stitches a little so that the extra yarn is worked back into the rest of the row of stitches. You can do this by gently stretching the heel flap and working in the extra yarn. Sometimes a crochet hook is a good thing to use for doing this. ;-)


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## 5mmdpns

KnottyMe said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you can do now, is to "worrie" the loose slipped stitches a little so that the extra yarn is worked back into the rest of the row of stitches. You can do this by gently stretching the heel flap and working in the extra yarn. Sometimes a crochet hook is a good thing to use for doing this. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Would you ever recommend adding a piece of yarn into a gap, sort of like weaving in? (toupee??) I have done it once and have always felt guilty about it.
Click to expand...

Yah, that would be a very last resort to do if the worrie did not do the trick. And then of course you have to wash/block the sock afterwards and this will even out the tension/looseness too.

If I were to add another piece of yarn into the mix there to make the holes disappear, I would use it to make a mattress stitch work and snug the two sides together. :-D


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## jeanbess

Here is a picture not a good one but you can see what I mean


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeanbess said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have done the flap it does shop up better but the purl st. Is we're the k st should be the k st does. Not continue into the heel flap the indent does I hope this makes sense o you. jean
> 
> 
> 
> I am not exactly sure what you are saying there but it appears to me like you have *a satisfactory heel flap*? You do lots of knitting and if you are satisfied with how it looks to you, then that is what is important. You know what you need to see and if that looks alright, then it is. We are always our harshest critics when we judge our knitting things. Question for you to ask yourself: 1 -- did a heel flap get made? 2 -- are you satisfied with how it looks? 3 -- is there a place where I can improve the function of this heel flap for the next socks?
> 
> If you have an improvement in the third question that you want to try for the next sock, please write it down and use a paper clip to attach it to page 26 in the Getting Started Knitting Sock book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the problem I did what I had to do but I do not like it the k st in the sock body does not line up with the k st in the flap
Click to expand...

So for your next sock flap, you will start the first slipped stitch as the one that lines up with the purl stitch on the sock leg. If that means you need to have one less stitch on the needle for the heel flap, then that is what you do and put the extra stitch on the needle for the instep. Your last stitch on the needle will be a knit stitch and not the purl stitch. Then the next stitch will be a knit stitch and will be directly above the knit stitch.

In short, you will be knitting the knit stitches you see on your needle. You will be slipping the purl stitches on your needle. That is for the first row. The second row you slip the first stitch and then purl the rest of them. Then you slip one, *knit one in the knit stitch on the needle, slip one* and repeat this to the end of the row, making sure your last stitch on the row is a knit stitch.


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## 5mmdpns

Marianne818 said:


> LOL... I'm calm I promise.. :shock: :shock: :shock: I am starting the heel flap, the pattern says put one half of the stitches centered on the beginning of the round, on a needle. place the other half on a holder-these stitches will be the instep later on. Work the heel flap over the 28 sts.
> Sorry this is so confusing to me. So, I knit the first 14 stitches.. then turn and slip the (same??? ) 14 sts on the other side of the marker onto the needle. This is where I am confused.. sorry.. I understand how to turn and work back. That isn't a problem.. it's just which stitches do I put on the holder.. and how do they move to the instep later??? Okay.. have I finally lost it here  :XD:
> Hope I haven't confused you also.. love ya, really, really do ;-)


You are not lost and neither am I!!!! If you are afraid of the stitches falling off the other needles while you knit the heel flap, go ahead and put them on stitch holders. The other thing to do is to slip some elastic bands over the ends of those needles that hold the instep stitches. I find that I dont need to do either one of those things as my instep stitches on the needles just wait for me to go back to them once the heel flap and heel turn and the stitches on the sides. Once those things are done, then I go back to knitting in the round and the instep stitchs are a part of that. :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

Marianne818 said:


> Okay, so then I just knit them as 3 needles instead of the 4?? Or as 2? with the 3rd being used as the stitch holder? I have the point covers so not worried about them slipping off the other needle. So from what I am understanding is I knit the first 14 stitches, then put the 14 stitches from the other side (what I would call the opposite end of the round onto the same needle? the stitches that would be being held would be the stitches that are in the center? Is that correct??


How many needles are do you have your stitches on right now before you start the heel flap? Do you have them on four needles, and knit with the fifth needle? If you do, then you take two needles that are next to each other and transfer the stitches all onto one needle. You will now have stitches on three needles -- two needles will hold the stitches for the instep and the third needle will have the stitches for the heel flap.

OR

If you have your stitches on three needles and you are knitting with the fourth needle, then you need to put 28 stitches onto one needle so that you have that many for the heel flap. It is a simply a matter of re-arranging the stitches on the needles. Take the needle with the stitches you just knit the 14 stitches onto and continue to knit the next 14 stitches off of the other needle onto this one. Now you have 28 stitches on one needle to use for the heel flap.

Forget about using a needle as a stitch holder. It serves as no useful information in the pattern. Ignore it. Put your point covers over the ends of the two needles that have the instep stitches on. :wink:


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## Marianne818

Thank you... you make this sound soooooo simple.. :-D I guess where I was the most confused was if the stitches on the "idle" had to come from what I would call the "middle" section, not from either "end" if there is an end when knitting in the round that is. Oh and I am using 4 needles, gads, not sure what I'd do if I had to use 5.. :shock: 
Guest coming in around noon.. soooo not ready but will put on the happy face and have my knitting ready, I'm lucky I can talk and knit.. unless it is lace, then I shut myself in my room ;-) 
Have a fantastic day..will be on and off, love being able to go back and read if someone else has the same problem!


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I finished the 2" cuff and was ready to start the leg of the sock, but when I took a look at the printed pattern recommended, I noticed that its instructions read to knit on the 2x2 rib pattern for 7". However, the picture of the sock does not look like that. Is there something I am reading wrong? Please advise. Thank you.


No, you are just fine. What often appears in books and photos are digitally enhanced and not as graphic as the real thing. Some socks do have a ribbing for the entire leg. Some only have a ribbing for the cuff and a plain stocking stitch for the leg. But in this case, the photo of the sock is a 2" rib and then stocking stitch to the heel. 
You can make the "cuff" as long as you like but not shorter than 2". A two inch cuff with a four inch stocking stitch leg, then the heel flap is a standard basic sock. From there, the patterns can be adapted/tweaked to suit the foot and the person who wears it.


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## Island Knitter

Here's the pic of where I was last night. I'm now another 2" down the leg and have decreased a total of 6 stitches so far.



5mmdpns said:


> Island Knitter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really pleased. So far I've gotten the 2" cuff done and will try it on and figure out where to do my decreases. I'll try to take a picture and post it tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> I am very happy over you being pleased with your progress!!! Yes!!!! you can knit a sock!! :lol: :thumbup:
Click to expand...


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## KnottyMe

5mmdpns said:


> Nilda muniz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I finished the 2" cuff and was ready to start the leg of the sock, but when I took a look at the printed pattern recommended, I noticed that its instructions read to knit on the 2x2 rib pattern for 7". However, the picture of the sock does not look like that. Is there something I am reading wrong? Please advise. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are just fine. What often appears in books and photos are digitally enhanced and not as graphic as the real thing. Some socks do have a ribbing for the entire leg. Some only have a ribbing for the cuff and a plain stocking stitch for the leg. But in this case, the photo of the sock is a 2" rib and then stocking stitch to the heel.
> You can make the "cuff" as long as you like but not shorter than 2". A two inch cuff with a four inch stocking stitch leg, then the heel flap is a standard basic sock. From there, the patterns can be adapted/tweaked to suit the foot and the person who wears it.
Click to expand...

My goodness gracious things definitely look different on the foot than on the needles. I'm sending this pic to show what 4 inches of 2x2 ribbing looks like on a real leg. Trust me it's my real leg and I even shaved for this photo op!!! I've used sock yarn for this pair so they are particularly smaller, tighter. It takes some experimenting to get used to this. These socks are useable for sure, but shorter in the leg than what I would have expected. I'm thinking 7 inches on the cuff is a better goal. I did no straight knitting after the ribbing.


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## jmai5421

KnottyMe said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nilda muniz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I finished the 2" cuff and was ready to start the leg of the sock, but when I took a look at the printed pattern recommended, I noticed that its instructions read to knit on the 2x2 rib pattern for 7". However, the picture of the sock does not look like that. Is there something I am reading wrong? Please advise. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are just fine. What often appears in books and photos are digitally enhanced and not as graphic as the real thing. Some socks do have a ribbing for the entire leg. Some only have a ribbing for the cuff and a plain stocking stitch for the leg. But in this case, the photo of the sock is a 2" rib and then stocking stitch to the heel.
> You can make the "cuff" as long as you like but not shorter than 2". A two inch cuff with a four inch stocking stitch leg, then the heel flap is a standard basic sock. From there, the patterns can be adapted/tweaked to suit the foot and the person who wears it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My goodness gracious things definitely look different on the foot than on the needles. I'm sending this pic to show what 4 inches of 2x2 ribbing looks like on a real leg. Trust me it's my real leg and I even shaved for this photo op!!! I've used sock yarn for this pair so they are particularly smaller, tighter. It takes some experimenting to get used to this. These socks are useable for sure, but shorter in the leg than what I would have expected. I'm thinking 7 inches on the cuff is a better goal. I did no straight knitting after the ribbing.
Click to expand...

I love your socks. They are so bright. Beautiful knitting. Thanks for showing what 4" of ribbing looks like. I did 6 " and ran our of yarn at the toes. I do like the 6" length. I will do the toes in another matching/contrasting color. I just want to tell you if you make a 7" cuff be sure to have more yarn. I had 2 skeins of Patons Kroy Jaquards sock yarn. I definitely will be making more. I like to see the finished socks and the colors used.


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> I have done my heel now when do I start ribbing again for the top of my foot I have knitted the 1st needle and picked up 14st on one side do I st with a 1x1 rib now just incase you forgote I am ribbing the whole sock Jean
> PS
> If I pick up 14 on the other side I will have 70 st. Is that not to many I started with 52 very confusing helpppppp JB


You should have more stitches than the 52 stitches you had on the needles before you started the heel flap!!! That is ok, and as it should be.
You follow exactly what the pattern says to do. When you are knitting needle 2 (the 26 stitches for the instep) you will follow the pattern for the ribbing. On the bottom of the sole, you will do a stocking stitch (for the entire sole.) Once your decreases have been done to form the wedge shape for the gusset area, you will now have 52 stitches back total on all your needles. Continue to do the ribbing now on all the area for your instep and then the stocking stitch for your sole.

*The reason for doing the stocking stitch on your sole is for foot comfort.* Your feet do pick up the "ridge" sensation you will have from the k1p1 stitchwork on the soles of your sock. This may be quite uncomfortable and you want the sock to be comfortable for you to wear. :thumbup:


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## baglady1104

I did it! Finished my first sock! I've turned the heel on the other sock, just need to finish the foot part, then the toe. Thank you, thank you 5mmdpns!


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## Island Knitter

I've gotten really far into knitting my first sock in the round! I do have a couple of holes, I didn't get down low enough into the place between the heel and the turn for the gusset (I'll work on that later) and somehow I got an extra stitch in the instep and I did a ssk to get rid of the extra stitch. For my first try on the first sock, I feel pretty good about it!

Lesley


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## Island Knitter

It's JoAnn's Sensations Cuddle Muffin - white/turquise/brown colorway. It's sport weight and I really like the pattern too.



5mmdpns said:


> Island Knitter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotten really far into knitting my first sock in the round! I do have a couple of holes, I didn't get down low enough into the place between the heel and the turn for the gusset (I'll work on that later) and somehow I got an extra stitch in the instep and I did a ssk to get rid of the extra stitch. For my first try on the first sock, I feel pretty good about it!
> 
> Lesley
> 
> 
> 
> It does look great! and nothing that a bit of a stitch here or there can not fix! The ssk was fine! You should be proud of your work! What was the yarn you used? I like the pattern in the yarn! Very nice and respectable!! Sock ON! :thumbup:
Click to expand...


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## 5mmdpns

I have started a Just in Time for Christmas Parade of Socks. I am adding more pictures as you post them. Please go check it out! 
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-117372-1.html#2237117

Also there is the main workshop site that can be checked out.
http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-105-1.html


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## baglady1104

5mmdpns said:


> baglady1104 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did it! Finished my first sock! I've turned the heel on the other sock, just need to finish the foot part, then the toe. Thank you, thank you 5mmdpns!
> 
> 
> 
> You are welcome! The sock looks very nice and wonderfully knit! Everything just as it should be. I personally am fond of wearing ankle socks. I do love purple too! You have made a very wise yarn selection! I am proud of this sock you have knit. Congratulations!!! :thumbup:
> 
> Which part of the sock did you have the most difficulty in understanding? And knowing all what you know now about sock knitting, will you knit more socks? :?:
Click to expand...

5mmdpns, I did get confused about picking up the stitches along the side and re-distributing them properly on the three needles. I've gotten to the point of turning the heel in the past and always gave it up right there, but this time I just blundered on through with what I thought was meant by the pattern and needed to be done, and lo! and behold! It eventually worked out just right, and I understood it--a really big "ah ha!" moment. lol Knowing I could run back here and holler for help gave me the nerve to keep going when I didn't have a clue what I was doing. 

Yes, I am looking forward to knitting more socks, even though it is somewhat tedious and fiddley, and I don't particularly like doing ribbing or long stretches of st st. But I can't wait to get this other sock done and move on to some of the nice sock yarn I've added to my stash recently. My DH has already put in his order for six pairs. lol

The yarn I'm using is worsted weight, Red Heart 'With Love,' plum jam.


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I am not sure I understand the process for the heel. The instructions read to work on 24 stitches, but the second sentence reads 24 plus 2. Please advise, thank you. Maybe this is clear, but for me is kind of foreign language.


Ok. No problems. Just tell me what pattern/page you are using and how many stitches you have on your needle when in the round.
I will help you to understand the instructions. It is my aim to not only teach you how to knit a sock, but to also know how to understand the instructions!!!


----------



## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I am not sure I understand the process for the heel. The instructions read to work on 24 stitches, but the second sentence reads 24 plus 2. Please advise, thank you. Maybe this is clear, but for me is kind of foreign language.


Ok, this paragraph is confusing and some of it has no useful information for you. In my words, here is what the pattern instructions are telling you:

You have your stitches on three needles and you are knitting with the fourth needle. You need to put 24 stitches onto one needle so that you have that many for the heel flap. It is a simply a matter of re-arranging the stitches on the needles. Take the needle with the stitches you just knit the 12 stitches onto and continue to knit the next 12 stitches off of the other needle onto this one. Now you have 24 stitches on one needle to use for the heel flap.

(Forget about using a needle as a stitch holder. It serves as no useful information in the pattern. Ignore it. Put your point covers/elastics over the ends of the two needles that have the instep stitches on.)

Now go back to the pattern, you will P across the back of the heel flap, slipping the first stitch.......etc.

...........*Turning the Heel* (I believe this is where you are now? You will make the little "cup" that your heel will sit in now. Now you are turning the knitting piece so that it is going to curve around and under the bottom of your heel. To do this you are going to be doing short rows in the middle of the stitchwork. You have to get to the middle of the row and then start doing the turning.)

You are still only knitting on the 24 stitches that are making up your heel flap. The instep stitches on the other two needles are just waiting there until you are ready for them. You are not yet ready for them, and they will wait for you. They are not going any where.
Starting on the RS, you are going to knit halfway across the stitches of your heel flap. Meaning -- you will knit _12 stitches plus you will knit two more for a total of 14 stitches on your right hand needle._ There will be 10 stitches on your left hand needle. That is good. 
Now you are going to slip one stitch, knit one stitch, then you are going to pass the slipped stitch over the knitted stitch. 
Now knit one.
Take your right hand needle on which you now have 16 stitches and turn it so that this needle is now your left hand needle and the former left hand needle (which only has a few stitches remaining on it) is now in your right hand. 
The WS of your work now faces you.

Now you are going to slip one, purl five, purl two together, purl one, and turn.
The RS is facing you.

Slip one, knit across to the gap where you turned, and slip the first stitch before the gap. Knit the first stitch after the gap. Pass the slipped stitch over this knitted stitch. Knit one. Turn so that the WS faces you.

Slip one, purl across to the gap. Purl together the first stitch before and the first stitch after the gap. Purl one. Turn so that the RS faces you.

Continue in this manner until all the heel flap stitches have been used up. Now look at your pretty heel cup -- it magically appeared! 
Now you go and do the rest of the sock, picking up 12 stitches along the heel flap plus the one in the corner. Go to Wise Hilda's video for this and let that be your guide for how to pick up your stitches. You are doing just super great and you will continue to do so!!! Sock ON!  :thumbup:


----------



## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> I am having trouble with the Kitchener co is there a way you can make it easier or an other way to Finish off


Did you go to this site and try to follow it?
http://knitty.com/ISSUEsummer04/FEATtheresasum04.html

I will try and find a simple kitchener stitch video.


----------



## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> I am having trouble with the Kitchener co is there a way you can make it easier or an other way to Finish off







Try this one site. Kelly is knitting on one circular needle but you can substitute this for the two dpns and follow along. :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I could have not done without your assistance!!!!! You guided me step step by step on how to do the cup and for that I will forever be grateful to you! I am sorry you had to take so much of your time to explain it to me, but I understood it. Now I am ready to watch Wise Hilda's video to continue. Thank you so much, again.


Absolutely no apologies needed for asking the question at all!!! I am here to teach you what you need to know how to do. How else are you going to learn if you have no teacher?

Turning the heel of the sock is the most frustrating aspect of it because I have yet to come across a book that explains it just as I did for you. No book or pattern ever includes a statement saying you need to get to the center of the heel flap so you can work in short rows just in the middle until you have a little cup. Once that concept is clear, then the rest is a breeze. Because now you can see it in your mind! (I am a knitter who has to see something in her head first before actually knitting the part so I know what I am aiming for. I spend lots of time knitting things in my head and frogging them until it is right.)


----------



## 5mmdpns

Ms. Tess said:


> Woohoooooooooooooooo I found it and I grabbed the yarn we were discussing. I had forgotten about the forum for socks, thanks for reminding me about this. Memory is foggy at the best of times unfortunately! The yarn I have is called Gala and it's from Turkey. It doesn't give me a size on the package, but compared to other sock yarns, it's about right on par with the size. I have got 4 50g balls and figure that (hopefully) is enough to make a pair of socks! Having never knit socks before, I am in terrible need of help as dear hubby would love to have a pair of socks and I would love to make him a pair for Christmas =) I hope you don't lose your patience with me as I have a hard time "getting it" and often require explanations a few times over before instructions set in sometimes. I know I have two sizes of DPN's...size Canadian 9 American 5 Metric 3 1/4 if that makes sense to you? And also Canadian 12 American 2 Metric 2 1/4 , so that is what I have for DPN's. I found the bigger ones, so let me know what I need to get going please. I need to know how to make a guage swatch because I don't usually do that... Thanks so much, Tess =)


Hi Tess, you are in great company here! At least you have knit in the round before! More than enough to make your hubby a pair of socks!

Woohooo, 4 balls of 50gram sock yarn balls. Your yarn is very likely a #2 weight. Select the Canadian 9 first for your gauge swatch. You will go to the Information Sheets on page 4 and follow the instructions for knitting a gauge swatch in the round. 

Please do read through the first posting I did to open this sock workshop. You will find many links there including where to order the book from. The pattern link is the wrong one posted there as the link changed. Here is the right one http://www.knittingonthenet.com/patterns/socksbasic.htm


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## robmac

Welcome to our sock knitting corner of the web. As you need help, 5mmdpns is awesome, she knows so much about sock knitting. Well about knitting in general. She has helped me out so much. I will post some of my pictures in a little bit.


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## 5mmdpns

robmac said:


> Welcome to our sock knitting corner of the web. As you need help, 5mmdpns is awesome, she knows so much about sock knitting. Well about knitting in general. She has helped me out so much. I will post some of my pictures in a little bit.


Rob these socks are totally awesome!!! ok, now I am dying to ask you just how did you tweak the pattern? What a great thing to do!! :thumbup: (haha, trust a guy to come up with this concept!! and ok, so I will) :lol:

Love that blue yarn you choose for the ww socks. I notice you have a diagonal heel on there, but I am not surprised. You do knit a lot of socks! You did a 1x1 ribbing on it, right? :?:

Your heart and sole sock yarn is perfect and so is the heel flap and no holes gusset knitting! to be sure it is something you should be proud of!


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## robmac

Using the gauge swatch of 8st per inch, measured around the big toe. Multiplied the 8 st times the length around toe. Told me how many stitches for the big toe. Knitted half of that number from the last of the last needle and half of the next needle. Put the rest of the stitches on scrap yarn, or stitch holder, and worked the big toe till just about long enough, and then decreased ever round, the toe ends fast. Otherwise it would be pointed. Then picked up the rest of the toe stitches from yarn and worked as a regular toe decreases. Really easy since I learned how many stitches things need by the swatch and the stitches per inch. Thanks again for teaching us that 5mmdpns


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## 5mmdpns

Ms. Tess said:


> Do socks have to be made with a long tail cast on? I fear I have alwaya had difficulties with casting on like that. I usually just start with a slip knot and do a knit cast on for about anything I knit and it usually works great for me. I don't want to start off wrong, so that is why I asked =)


Tess, the long tail cast on video is so simple and easily explained. I know you will have no difficulty with this one. The long tail cast on is a great one for socks due to the stretchiness of this cast on. You might as well say it was invented just for socks!


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## robmac

And here are the latest ones, anklets. Yes I have been busy. LOL, did I mention I love knitting socks.


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## Island Knitter

Yeah, I finished my first sock! And it fits! Here's a couple of pics.


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## 5mmdpns

Ms. Tess said:


> I am thinking I should start numbering my dumb questions for future reference lol. I want to know what happens if I increase my cast on stitches to 60 instead of 56? I usually have a fairly loose cast on with the knit cast on stitches I do, so I am not worried about having to do a long tail cast on =) We'll see how it works, live and learn, because if it doesn't work well, I have this cute little frog that sings "Umbrella" and dances, so I put that on while I'm Frogging. IF it gets nuts, then I play this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's my GO TO when I get crazy having to rip stuff out!! lmaoooooooooooo it's too funny =)


It is too funny. You make your gauge swatch and then you measure the leg/foot so that you will know how many stitches to cast on. I will tweak your numbers for you! Dont worry about that.


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## jmai5421

Love the socks Island Knitter, great work and neat color pattern.


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## jeanbess

It is finished but should have made the foot longer , why is it not smooth at the instep what can I do so it will not bunch up


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> It is finished but should have made the foot longer , why is it not smooth at the instep what can I do so it will not bunch up


You need to wash/block it and then put it on again. See what happens. (You dont have to remove the stitch markers to do this.) I suspect that it is possible that the heel flap needs to be knit a few more rows longer. OR/ the place where the ripplies are in the instep, the sock may be a bit too tight fitting? Wash/block it and try it on again. Let me know how the fit is.


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## 5mmdpns

Ms. Tess said:


> Okay, I have yet another dumb question before I goes and wraps hubby up in my measuring tape.....
> 
> I know that for the calf, it's the biggest part of the calf that you measure, and for the foot it's about the middle of the arch or the thickest part of the foot, but for the life of me I cannot fathom how to measure his ankle to fit socks. Do I measure horizontally up from the bottom of the heel around to the front of the ankle in front or do I just measure around the circumference of the ankle itself?


Hi Tess! Your measurement needs to be the circumferance around the ball of the foot (or the instep and these numbers are usually the same.) Look at the picture of the anatomy of a sock, page 4 of this forum. It is the yellow part of the foot of the sock.
For the length of the sock. You need to measure from the floor to the place where your hubby wants the top of the sock to come to on his leg. Have him put on a pair of his socks that he wants the same leg length to be. Measure from the floor (at the side of his heel) to the top of the sock. That is how long you will knit the sock leg. 
You are right about the measurement for his calf. But you do not have to measure what his ankle circumferance is. :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> I have washed and blocked my sock the Bobble is still there I think the sock is riding down it fits to loosely around the calf it feels better with an wide elastic around it And I did measure every step off the way the same way it did 8 years ago when
> I made socks for my hubby because he needed long socks so his brace would feel more comfortable ,that time I was very new to knitting never even new what a swatch was. So now what will I do next time if I can't go by my measurement and a swatch


You need to make your heel flap longer. I recall you telling me that you have a high arch. For people with a high arch, your heel flap needs to be longer. For those who have a rather flat foot and no arch (think a one year old baby's foot) you dont need a very long heel flap.


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## 5mmdpns

jeanbess said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jeanbess said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have washed and blocked my sock the Bobble is still there I think the sock is riding down it fits to loosely around the calf it feels better with an wide elastic around it And I did measure every step off the way the same way it did 8 years ago when
> I made socks for my hubby because he needed long socks so his brace would feel more comfortable ,that time I was very new to knitting never even new what a swatch was. So now what will I do next time if I can't go by my measurement and a swatch
> 
> 
> 
> You need to make your heel flap longer. I recall you telling me that you have a high arch. For people with a high arch, your heel flap needs to be longer. For those who have a rather flat foot and no arch (think a one year old baby's foot) you dont need a very long heel flap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So how much longer do I knit the flap and will I have to pick up more stitches from the sides should I do this on the other sock or should I wait and do it on the next pair I make, I just wanted to get this in while I still can ask you before the work shop ends thanks for all your help Jean
Click to expand...

Hi Jean, if it were me knitting the socks, I would do it now on the mate to the one you just did. You should make it at least another four rows total. Which would be two more rows on the right side and two more rows on the wrong side. You would pick up an extra two stitches on each side of the heel flap. So that means you will make four extra decreases on the rounds you do to make the nice wedge shaped gusset.

Generally speaking, when I knit a pair of socks, the first sock is my experiment pair where I work out any problems and the mate is problem-free because I encorporate all the tweaks into it. I learn the mistakes on the first sock and the next sock then is supposed to be perfect! haha, it is a good system for me! 

If you find that your mate still wrinkles at the instep, you might then want to add another two rows to your heel flap, for a total of 6 extra rows. Three additional rows on the right side and three additional rows on the wrong side. You would pick up three extra stitches along the heel flap on each side. You knit 6 extra decreases for the decrease rounds.

Hopefully this all makes sense for you. If not, then post back with what you are not understanding!! :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

Cyndyn said:


> Generally speaking, when I knit a pair of socks, the first "sock is my experiment pair where I work out any problems and the mate is problem-free because I encorporate all the tweaks into it. I learn the mistakes on the first sock and the next sock then is supposed to be perfect! haha, it is a good system for me!"
> 
> Hi everyone!! Hope everyone is mending and feeling better!!
> 
> 5mmdpns, I think I will take your words to heart and start to just concentrate on one sock instead of doing the two. It makes sense to work on one and get it right and tweaked with all the right numbers and problems worked out, so I have a personalized pattern to follow in the future. What do you think??


That does sound good for your first ever socks! You only need to make sure that you are writing down whatever changes you need to tweak so that the sock fits to you. If you can photocopy that page/s and make your writing in pen directly on the pattern. Save the book for other sock projects you will knit in the future. 
For those who dont need any tweaking or those who have been sock knitters for a while, two socks at a time are the way to go. But if you find that you are needing more tweaking and are even a little unsure of things, knit one sock and then the other. There is nothing wrong with that!! Sock ON!


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## 5mmdpns

Cyndyn said:


> Two question:
> Ok I'm knitting along and find out instead of 16 stitches on each needle I have 17 on the one I am working with. Now what is the best fix for something like that.. I have just been knitting the next 2 together but is there something else I should do?
> What is the best fix for the long tail from the cast on.... it seems to have a mind of it's own and wants to be messing with my knitting yarn. I tried to tie it up in itself but it doesn't want to stay. Any good idea's would be helpful.
> Thanks!!
> Cyndy


First let us deal with the extra yarn from the long tail cast on. Simple to fix. Using your darning needle, thread it with the tail, then you weave the yarn in and close your gap at the same time.
Second, how many stitches did you cast on and how many do you have on your needles now? How far along are you on the sock knitting? :?:


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## 5mmdpns

Cyndyn said:


> Not sure.... please explain. I didn't start out flat I just cast on divided and went.
> 
> 
> 
> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have no gap to stitch shut on your cast on row, then just weave the extra yarn in for about an inch and then leave a quarter inch end and snip it off. You can look at the work and weave it in on the inside on round two.
Click to expand...

So you have left over yarn from the long tail cast on. Right? So now you can just take a darning needle, thread it with this yarn, and weave it in and out of the stitches for an inch or so, and cut the rest off. See the last two paragraphs in the book on page 45. Finishing. Weaving in Loose Ends.


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## 5mmdpns

Nilda muniz said:


> I am so confused with the knitting after picking up the stitches and working in the gusset. I am afraid I have to undo all those rows because I can't remember what row I knitted, if the one knitting 2 together or the knit all row. I was never able to find the wise Hilda's video for turning the gusset and have watched many videos on how to do that and, of course, all of them provide different instructions.


Ensuring that there are no holes at the top of the gussett on each side of the heel flap. Wise Hilda has put this out and it goes to how this is fully explaned and demonstrated, somewhat a little better than in Getting Started Knitting Socks pg 31. http://wisehilda.blogspot.ca/2010/01/on-picking-up-gusset-stitches-avoiding.html

Hi Nilda, no need to go into a panic!!! I am right here for you. If you need to, you will just undo the knitting right back to where you finished turning the heel, before you picked up the stitches along side the heel flap. I reposted for you where Wise Hilda has the explanations and clear pictures for this. 
You just click on that link and read it all. Study the pictures. Now with your knitting in front of you, compare the pictures to what you see with your knitting. You can go ahead and poke at your knitting as you do the comparisons because you need to see what you have and explore it. That is perfectly fine to do!
When you get to the first round of knitting in the round, hook a little safety pin through a stitch on that first round. That way, you can keep track of where you are and what round you are knitting. Note this down on your pattern page in pencil. You also need to mark off on your pattern page, a round that is completed. Just make a numbered column down one side of the margin on your pattern page and check it off when you have done so. ie. in my example, I know I have completed rounds 1,2,3, and will need to do round 4 next. The even rounds are the rounds on which I need to make my decreases. The odd numbered rounds are just knit rounds.
1 x
2 x
3 x
4
5
6
7 
etc. Until you come to the same number of stitches on the needles you had when you cast on.

You will do fine! :thumbup:


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## jmai5421

These are addictive. I finish one pair and have to start another to see how the yarn works up in pattern.
The first pair is shades of yellow. I don't know the yarn but it is very soft.
The pair I am working on is Pattons kroy jacquard.
Thank you 5mmdpns for teaching this class. I recommend it but be careful it could be addicting.


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## jeanbess

I have finished my other sock the first one fits better on the foot so the longer heel flap was not the answer to the ribble on top of my foot but I can live with that I do think I have to make the top tighter for it does not feel tight enough at the calf maybe I am not used to the loose feeling of the sock they do not seem to ride down, I am happy with my socks thank you for all the help Jean


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## jmai5421

So far my favorite pair of socks. The fit is great. I like the k3,p1 stitch. I think that is what made them so huggly.


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## prismaticr

Hey all, just a heads up that this workshop is 'closing'. That means no new posts will be added and the general chit chat will be removed by the section managers.

Please know that you can still feel free to private message 5mmdpns with questions. While she has not posted here in many days I remain hopeful that she will continue to answer questions by folks tackling the knitted sock with the infamous and challenging DPN's.

Please continue to post pictures of your finished Socks in the Parade of Socks, located  Here 

Keep an eye out for our next workshops coming just after the New Year. Including a Magic Loop Toe up sock. I think even 5mmdpns is taking this one... Remember these remain free to all KP members.

Happy Socking!!!!


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## 5mmdpns

Hi Sockers, I loved teaching the Basic Sock Workshop and have loved each one of you! I was with you for the ups and downs of your sock knitting as you explored the world of socks. We learned how to cast on, we learned how to make our gauges and swatch for our custom fit huggly socks, we learned how to manipulate the dpns to our satisfaction, we learned how to make the heel flap, we learned how to turn the heel, we learned what the gusset was all about, we learned how to close the toes off with the kitchener stitch. We learned how to tweak the pattern to suit ourselves!! We learned that socks were a great adventure to embark on! As this workshop comes to a close, I wish you all the best as you continue to knit socks! Finally, Sock ON!  :thumbup:


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## 5mmdpns

We learned how to knit each part of the sock. With all this knowledge, I am hoping you will simply flood your world with hand-knitted socks!! Sock ON! :thumbup:


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## Designer1234

here is a little song that 5mmdpns - suggested we keep somewhere, - which makes sense that I post it here.


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## prismaticr

Topic is now closed. For additional information not found on these pages. please try and private message (pm) the listed teacher.

Thank you and happy knitting/crocheting!


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