# M1 vs KFB?



## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

I've heard here and elsewhere that these are different and can be different in stitch count (though my wonderful math mind doesn't get that-since they both increase by 1 stitch, I thought) Anyway, I really struggled using M1s in a pattern, finally gave up-felt very awkward. In general, yes, no? Can you use a KFB instead as long as you do it in the same place as the M1 instruction? 
(*I've read through the KP old posts back from 2012*-still not sure if the answer is yes or no  ) Some said M1 makes more of a hole, some said it depended if you needed a slant, some said no difference. So, thought I'd get a current response. Worse case scenario if it calls for M1 and I use KFB? Thanks in advance.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

This was just being discussed on another thread. You can (usually) use any increase you prefer based on the look you like. When a pattern specifies one type of increase, you can substitute your preferred increase instead.

I am working on a top down sweater which calls for a YO increase. I don't care for the look of holes at the increases (they stretch out at the top leaving odd-looking holes IMO... Just a personal preference/observation).

I have added photos of the 3 most common increases I have used, of course, there are more to choose from as well.

Thank goodness there are no knitting police.... We can all choose what increases we personally prefer!


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## immunurse (May 2, 2011)

The count is unaffected by whether you use M1 vs. KFB, but the appearance will be different.

Done correctly, M1 makes the smoothest transition, in my never-to-be-humble opinion and you can make the new stitch slant either to the right or the left, which can sometimes make a difference how professional the finished product looks. 

Search on KP or the search engine you prefer. You'll find both written text with still photos or utube video. You're sure to find something that helps.

Happy knitting!


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.

The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.

Lifted Increases: 





eta: if this link doesn't work, you can find it by looking up Very Pink's list of videos on her website, "VeryPink Knits - YouTube." Her videos are my favorites because you can really SEE what she's doing, and her explanations are excellent.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

CathyAnn said:


> One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.
> 
> The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.
> 
> ...


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

CathyAnn said:


> One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.
> 
> The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.
> 
> ...


thanks for this-an increase I hadn't heard of. (I also love Very Pink!)


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

While it seems that there would be no difference, there actually is. And, it depends upon the pattern whether or not you can substitute one for the other. An M1 increase does not use a stitch...it is made from picking up yarn from the middle ( a simplistic explanation). The Kfb uses a stitch to make an additional stitch.

I was working a pattern that called for an M1 and used Kfb instead. At the end of the row, I did not have the correct stitch count. When I tinked it back and used an M1, I had the correct stitch count at the end of the row. Mind boggling but true.

Google the two and you will find several explanations from people with more credentials than I have who explain it better.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

You can switch a M1 to KFB. They both give an increase. The different count comes when you use a stitch to make the KFB. The pattern was not written to use a stitch for the increase. So, for example to switch 
K5 M1 Purl 6 you would work
K4 KFB Purl 6 and your count would be correct.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree with Crochernknit, they are two different increases.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

Crochetnknit said:


> While it seems that there would be no difference, there actually is. And, it depends upon the pattern whether or not you can substitute one for the other. An M1 increase does not use a stitch...it is made from picking up yarn from the middle ( a simplistic explanation). The Kfb uses a stitch to make an additional stitch.
> 
> I was working a pattern that called for an M1 and used Kfb instead. At the end of the row, I did not have the correct stitch count. When I tinked it back and used an M1, I had the correct stitch count at the end of the row. Mind boggling but true.
> 
> Google the two and you will find several explanations from people with more credentials than I have who explain it better.


that's what I had heard, though as I said my mind can't quite grasp it. Bottom line-if I have a pattern that has minimal M1s I can survive it-but the "5 hour baby sweater" was the end for me-just couldn't seem to keep up with the M1s, and there are lots!


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

jinx said:


> You can switch a M1 to KFB. They both give an increase. The different count comes when you use a stitch to make the KFB. The pattern was not written to use a stitch for the increase. So, for example to switch
> K5 M1 Purl 6 you would work
> K4 KFB Purl 6 and your count would be correct.


thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me :hunf: I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific!


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Crochetnknit said:


> While it seems that there would be no difference, there actually is. And, it depends upon the pattern whether or not you can substitute one for the other. An M1 increase does not use a stitch...it is made from picking up yarn from the middle ( a simplistic explanation). The Kfb uses a stitch to make an additional stitch.
> 
> I was working a pattern that called for an M1 and used Kfb instead. At the end of the row, I did not have the correct stitch count. When I tinked it back and used an M1, I had the correct stitch count at the end of the row. Mind boggling but true.
> 
> Google the two and you will find several explanations from people with more credentials than I have who explain it better.


You will have to account for the difference in your pattern... A very simple adjustment. You can't expect to just swap one for the other as Kfb makes two stitches from one, M1 adds a stitch where there was none and YO increases via a hole.

It's not mind-boggling, it's just that Kfb uses a stitch to make an increase and M1 does not.

For example, the sweater I am knitting instructed you to

knit to 1 stitch before marker, yo, k1, sm

I changed it to......knit to 2 stitches before marker, Kfb, k1.

For a M1 you would knit to one stitch before marker, m1, K1, sm

You can substitute any increase, you just have to make sure you do it correctly to keep your stitch count correct.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

AmyKnits said:


> You will have to account for the difference in your pattern... A very simple adjustment. For example, the sweater I am knitting instructed you to knit to 1 stitch before marker, yo, k1, am. I changed it to......knit to 2 stitches before marker, Kfb, k1.
> 
> You can substitute any increase, you just have to make sure you do it correctly to keep your stitch count correct.


Thanks Amy, for now I'm doing mostly simple stuff, so hopefully it will be pretty simple to be sure of the count. I hope.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

jinx said:


> You can switch a M1 to KFB. They both give an increase. The different count comes when you use a stitch to make the KFB. The pattern was not written to use a stitch for the increase. So, for example to switch
> K5 M1 Purl 6 you would work
> K4 KFB Purl 6 and your count would be correct.


Yes. I agree. Oftentimes I'll sub the lifted/raised/almost invisible increase for m1. I find it easier and for me it does show less.



kittygritty said:


> thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me :hunf: I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific!


As for the count and making kfb work try doing a swatch with k3, m1 then on a subsequent row do k2, kfb and I think you'll see what's going on.

With m1 you finish the stitch and remove it from the needle then do the increase. With kfb you work the stitch and leave it on the needle to do the increase. So: if you have already worked 3 stitches then do the kfb you are effectively working 4 stitches before the increase is made. Clear as mud probably but I had to try.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

GrumpyGramma said:


> As for the count and making kfb work try doing a swatch with k3, m1 then on a subsequent row do k2, kfb and I think you'll see what's going on.
> 
> With m1 you finish the stitch and remove it from the needle then do the increase. With kfb you work the stitch and leave it on the needle to do the increase. So: if you have already worked 3 stitches then do the kfb you are effectively working 4 stitches before the increase is made. Clear as mud probably but I had to try.


yup, clear as mud but that's ok. I've gotten lots of explanations and I'm saving all of them. Some day on some project (and I like your idea of a swatch sample) it will make sense. thanks!


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## Yarn Happy (May 13, 2012)

I actually like to look of the kfb the best of all.


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

With kfb, you do not add two stitches, just one. In the "kf" part, you're just knitting into the stitch below. With the "b" part, you're adding one stitch. You do not change row stitch counts except by one stitch - you've made a one-stitch increase.

This can be tested out by knitting a swatch, then in the next row, knit a "kfb" and count the stitches before and after.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

Try this: You have 11 stitches on the needle: Pattern says K5 M1 P6. You can do that as you have 
5k sts and 6P stitches=11sts (no st to do the M1)
Now do 5 knit sts, Kfb, and P6. 5k, 1KFB, and 6P=12sts.
kittygritty]thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me :hunf: I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific![/quote]


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

jinx said:


> Try this: You have 11 stitches on the needle: Pattern says K5 M1 P6. You can do that as you have
> 5k sts and 6P stitches=11sts (no st to do the M1)
> Now do 5 knit sts, Kfb, and P6. 5k, 1KFB, and 6P=12sts.
> kittygritty]thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me :hunf: I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific!


[/quote]

going in my suggestion document. thanks!


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

jinx said:


> Try this: You have 11 stitches on the needle: Pattern says K5 M1 P6. You can do that as you have
> 5k sts and 6P stitches=11sts (no st to do the M1)
> Now do 5 knit sts, Kfb, and P6. 5k, 1KFB, and 6P=12sts.


Not *quite* right - what you have posted would require 12 stitches: 5, then 1 for the kfb, then 6 = 12

What needs to happen is: K5 knitting in the back of the 5th stitch as well as the front, P6.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

Hilary4 said:


> Not *quite* right - what you have posted would require 12 stitches: 5, then 1 for the kfb, then 6 = 12
> 
> What needs to happen is: K5 knitting in the back of the 5th stitch as well as the front, P6.


okey dokey. will just keep adding the info to my list. I think it's getting more confusing  . Anyway, I will practice the 2 options with a swatch. Maybe it will be more understandable then.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

I usually do a lifted increase (although I did not know until recently that it had a name!!). M1L or M1R is also a favourite although I find it difficult to do with some yarns e.g. cotton. The kfb increase works well but I do not like increasing by k and p into the same st. As Amy pointed out, there are no knitting police so take your pick! But whichever method you select you have to be satisfied that (a) the extra stitch is exactly where you want it and (b) the stitch count is correct when you're done.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

a + b-makes sense to me! thanks.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

I use both, it depends on what I am working on.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

kittygritty said:


> I've heard here and elsewhere that these are different and can be different in stitch count (though my wonderful math mind doesn't get that-since they both increase by 1 stitch, I thought) Anyway, I really struggled using M1s in a pattern, finally gave up-felt very awkward. In general, yes, no? Can you use a KFB instead as long as you do it in the same place as the M1 instruction?
> (*I've read through the KP old posts back from 2012*-still not sure if the answer is yes or no  ) Some said M1 makes more of a hole, some said it depended if you needed a slant, some said no difference. So, thought I'd get a current response. Worse case scenario if it calls for M1 and I use KFB? Thanks in advance.


KFB will leave a purl like bump on the right side of the fabric.
M1, when done properly, does not leave a hole, or a bump.


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## Sammiep (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for all the info.


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## mikebkk (Oct 6, 2012)

CathyAnn said:


> One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.
> 
> The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link


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## kgreen (Dec 29, 2012)

AmyKnits, Thanks for your reply. I could never understand the increase difference. The way you just explained it made sense! I actually understand it now. WOW! It's early in NC and I got it! Love learning something new!


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## BobL (Jul 13, 2014)

I was getting a tiny hole with M1 until it is supposed to be knit through the back. Now that I do it properly, there is no hole.


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## Frandelia (May 24, 2011)

I like the way the lifted increase looks. If you knit it through the back loop, you won't get a hole.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

kgreen said:


> AmyKnits, Thanks for your reply. I could never understand the increase difference. The way you just explained it made sense! I actually understand it now. WOW! It's early in NC and I got it! Love learning something new!


 :-D


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## chrisjac (Oct 25, 2011)

kittygritty said:


> yup, clear as mud but that's ok. I've gotten lots of explanations and I'm saving all of them. Some day on some project (and I like your idea of a swatch sample) it will make sense. thanks!


Confusing enough for anyone, isn't it.

I like the M1. When done correctly, and I stress correctly, it is smooth and leaves no hole.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

M1 does not use a sttich to make an increase.
A completed kfb uses a stitch BUT the kf part doesn't. So if you consider the kf as the m1 and the b as the knit (or next stitch) it will workout. (this of course is for moving from m1 to kfb, if the pattern calls for kfb no need to adjust).
Now if the pattern calls for kfb and you want to do a m1 you will need to work the next sttich before continueing on with the pattern.

So look at Jinxs suggestion (as Hilary pointed out you actually need 12 sttiche sto work a kfb in this example if you don't adjust).

Try this: You have 11 stitches on the needle: Pattern says K5 M1 P6. You can do that as you have 
_5k sts and 6P stitches=11sts (no st to do the M1)
Now do 5 knit sts, Kfb, and P6. 5k, 1KFB, and 6P=12sts.
kittygritty]thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific![/quote]_

to adjust for the kfb instead of a m1, k5, kf p6 (using the second sttich in the kfb as your first of the 6 (note that actually in this case you knit into the stitch then without slipping it off the needle put the yarn to the front and do the frist purl into the same sttich and then slip off. But the principle is the same as for kfb). If you don't count the last part of the kb as a sttich you will run out of stitches.

And to take the same example but with a kfb
Cast on 11 stitches, k5 kfb, p5 
to use a m1 -k5, m1, p6 (the first of the purls is the stitch that would have been used in the kfb. If you just do k5, m1, p5 you will only use up 10 of the 11 stitches.

if you go to this link to a knitulator (designed to show you when to increase-or decrease- across a row. plug in anything or use what is there as an example and it will bring up the counts for both the m1 and the kfb. Maybe it will help make it clearer.

It is a personal preference which you use- but if you cna't understand the difference than I suggest that unless it is only at the ends of the row where you mess up the stitch count that you stick to what the pattern says.
If you ge tthe difference use whatever you want.
There are other increases as well so you will need to be able to tell whether or not they have used a sttich in a completed action -most won't.

And a yo can be used as an increase without a hole. Just as to avoid a hole with a m1 you knit into the back of the loop on the way back do the same thing for the yo and no hole either.


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## beaz (Mar 16, 2013)

I never saw this before and just thought I would throw it in for a chuckle: KFBF
http://www.laurachau.com/2015/08/


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## momcos (Jun 25, 2013)

chrisjac said:


> Confusing enough for anyone, isn't it.
> 
> I like the M1. When done correctly, and I stress correctly, it is smooth and leaves no hole.


Agreed. And there is no purl bump. At least when I do the kfb, I get a bump, might just be me. Lol


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

To elaborate on Amy's comments:

When increasing, there are only two places it can be done. Either by working one or more extra stitches into an EXISTING stitch or by working a new stitch BETWEEN two existing stitches. Properly worked there is no difference in stitch count but there can be a difference in which increase properly expresses the design being worked.

KFB is an increase worked into an existing stitch and more than two stitches can be worked into a single existing stitch. That is to say you could find a pattern that would by some method of notation or charting tell the knitter to work 3,4,5, 6, stitches into the one existing stitch. It is just the KFB which works just 2 stitches is the direction most commonly seen.

Now, for increasing between stitches. Both M1 and YO do just that. A M1 is essentially a YO but with the lifted segment of yarn twisted first and then worked. The knitter can make it either left or right leaning by the direction of twist.

In fact, an M1 is sometimes called an afterthought YO because you can add in a YO missed in a previous row by just lifting the bar between two stitches where the YO should have been worked. Some knitters purposely work YOs this way to help keep the resulting hole the size they want it to be.



AmyKnits said:


> You will have to account for the difference in your pattern... A very simple adjustment. You can't expect to just swap one for the other as Kfb makes two stitches from one, M1 adds a stitch where there was none and YO increases via a hole.
> 
> It's not mind-boggling, it's just that Kfb uses a stitch to make an increase and M1 does not.
> 
> ...


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

Knitting Daily has a free Ebook on Increases and Decreases with great explanations and graphics. It is a pdf download, if you don't already have it, I highly recommend it:

http://www.knittingdaily.com/free-ebooks/#increase


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## mikebkk (Oct 6, 2012)

Ellie RD said:


> Knitting Daily has a free Ebook on Increases and Decreases with great explanations and graphics. It is a pdf download, if you don't already have it, I highly recommend it:
> 
> http://www.knittingdaily.com/free-ebooks/#increase


Thanks for the link - very useful resource.


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## chrisjac (Oct 25, 2011)

momcos said:


> Agreed. And there is no purl bump. At least when I do the kfb, I get a bump, might just be me. Lol


The bump is there for the kfb, you're not alone.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

darowil said:


> M1 does not use a sttich to make an increase.
> A completed kfb uses a stitch BUT the kf part doesn't. So if you consider the kf as the m1 and the b as the knit (or next stitch) it will workout. (this of course is for moving from m1 to kfb, if the pattern calls for kfb no need to adjust).
> Now if the pattern calls for kfb and you want to do a m1 you will need to work the next sttich before continueing on with the pattern.
> 
> ...




to adjust for the kfb instead of a m1, k5, kf p6 (using the second sttich in the kfb as your first of the 6 (note that actually in this case you knit into the stitch then without slipping it off the needle put the yarn to the front and do the frist purl into the same sttich and then slip off. But the principle is the same as for kfb). If you don't count the last part of the kb as a sttich you will run out of stitches.

And to take the same example but with a kfb
Cast on 11 stitches, k5 kfb, p5 
to use a m1 -k5, m1, p6 (the first of the purls is the stitch that would have been used in the kfb. If you just do k5, m1, p5 you will only use up 10 of the 11 stitches.

if you go to this link to a knitulator (designed to show you when to increase-or decrease- across a row. plug in anything or use what is there as an example and it will bring up the counts for both the m1 and the kfb. Maybe it will help make it clearer.

It is a personal preference which you use- but if you cna't understand the difference than I suggest that unless it is only at the ends of the row where you mess up the stitch count that you stick to what the pattern says.
If you ge tthe difference use whatever you want.
There are other increases as well so you will need to be able to tell whether or not they have used a sttich in a completed action -most won't.

And a yo can be used as an increase without a hole. Just as to avoid a hole with a m1 you knit into the back of the loop on the way back do the same thing for the yo and no hole either.[/quote]

Good explanation.


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## Knitting in the Rockys (Aug 17, 2015)

If properly executed the m1R and m1L do not leave a hole. I'm currently working on a project, using the m1R and m1L. On a lark, I switched to kfb for one row...yes there is a noticeable difference. That difference may be negligible or highly noticeable depending on the project and the yarn weight being used, even the color of the yarn may make a difference. Solid color yarns will make it more noticeable, than variegated yarns.

Personally I prefer the m1 increases over kfb UNLESS the pattern specified kfb. The kfb works much better when it is used to create a "ruffle" though.

That's about as clear as mud! Use the method you are comfortable with and which looks best to you.


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## chrisjac (Oct 25, 2011)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> If properly executed the m1R and m1L do not leave a hole. I'm currently working on a project, using the m1R and m1L. On a lark, I switched to kfb for one row...yes there is a noticeable difference. That difference may be negligible or highly noticeable depending on the project and the yarn weight being used, even the color of the yarn may make a difference. Solid color yarns will make it more noticeable, than variegated yarns.
> 
> Personally I prefer the m1 increases over kfb UNLESS the pattern specified kfb. The kfb works much better when it is used to create a "ruffle" though.
> 
> That's about as clear as mud! Use the method you are comfortable with and which looks best to you.


Clear enough for me!


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## sbel3555 (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi Amy, can you please tell me what this grey yarn is and brand. Your work is superb.
thanks
Sylvia


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## Louette (May 9, 2011)

Yarn Happy said:


> I actually like to look of the kfb the best of all.


I do as well. It is also so easy.


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## Louette (May 9, 2011)

sbel3555 said:


> Hi Amy, can you please tell me what this grey yarn is and brand. Your work is superb.
> thanks
> Sylvia


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree, her work is always perfect!


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## LindaH (Feb 1, 2011)

For me, M1 is too fiddly. I use Kf&b for my increases all the time. I have yet to see a hole show up, and I hope to get better with the increases.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

jinx said:


> Try this: You have 11 stitches on the needle: Pattern says K5 M1 P6. You can do that as you have
> 5k sts and 6P stitches=11sts (no st to do the M1)
> Now do 5 knit sts, Kfb, and P6. 5k, 1KFB, and 6P=12sts.
> kittygritty]thanks much. though it doesn't quite make sense to me :hunf: I will keep your instructions for future use. You KPers are terrific!


[/quote]

If you start with 11 stitches on the needle, you would knit 4 stitches, then knit in front and back of the next stitch, then purl 6 stitches to get to 12. 
If you were to knit 5, you would have to do another type of increase as in a M1, or lifted increase, then purl 6 to get 12 stitches. 
Either of these methods would get you to 12 stitches.


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## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Do whichever you feel comfortable with


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## PauletteB. (Feb 7, 2012)

Very informative. Thanks for all the info.


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## bostonbean2 (Mar 3, 2014)

I find Kfb when Portuguese knitting is easiest for me. In Portuguese knitting there are two ways to do the Kfb. One with the purl bump showing and one without that is the easiest and best looking of all.


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## bethn (Dec 26, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> You will have to account for the difference in your pattern... A very simple adjustment. You can't expect to just swap one for the other as Kfb makes two stitches from one, M1 adds a stitch where there was none and YO increases via a hole.
> 
> It's not mind-boggling, it's just that Kfb uses a stitch to make an increase and M1 does not.
> 
> ...


This -- all snugged up into a nutshell -- is it. Great one to keep. Thanks, Amy!


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## Marilyn1215 (Jul 27, 2011)

KFB Increase without Purl Bumps:


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## ouijian (Apr 21, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> To elaborate on Amy's comments:
> 
> When increasing, there are only two places it can be done. Either by working one or more extra stitches into an EXISTING stitch or by working a new stitch BETWEEN two existing stitches. Properly worked there is no difference in stitch count but there can be a difference in which increase properly expresses the design being worked.
> 
> ...


Oh, this is interesting. I have been knitting a scarf that has double yarn overs, and the size of the holes are too big for my taste, and I was thinking about ways to reduce that. You have given me permission to fiddle with that with your answer! Thanks!


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## ouijian (Apr 21, 2011)

Marilyn1215 said:


> KFB Increase without Purl Bumps:
> 
> 
> I just looked at this and it is a good solution, and then I read it again and realized this is for knitting in the round. When I looked at the comments, one person asked about how to use this technique for flat knitting. The author did not answer. I guess we could figure it out for ourselves. At any rate, I am going to try this. I like fiddling with my knitting until I get the effect I want. I'm getting ready to frog a scarf I made this summer because it had a KFN on every row as the first stitch and I just think the edge looks funky.


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## judyr (Feb 20, 2011)

CathyAnn said:


> One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.
> 
> The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.
> 
> ...


The link will not work until you take the s off the https.


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## riversong200 (Apr 20, 2014)

I was making a toy last night and found that the kbf increase left a hole where the M1 did not. I frogged and did the M1 since I needed to stuff the critter.


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

Another way you can end up with smaller holes is to just make single YOs and then work both of the two stitches called for in the following row into that single YO.

Some designers really do design for a very large hole and call for double YOs to achieve that. But sometimes they mainly specify double YOs so there are two pieces of yarn coming over the top of the needle for the two stitches to be worked into the YO on the following row. Particularly when you don't need or want a large hole you don't need to make double YOs.

(Hope this makes sense.)



ouijian said:


> Oh, this is interesting. I have been knitting a scarf that has double yarn overs, and the size of the holes are too big for my taste, and I was thinking about ways to reduce that. You have given me permission to fiddle with that with your answer! Thanks!


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## bostonbean2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Marilyn1215 said:


> KFB Increase without Purl Bumps:
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting that. It is the same for Portuguese style knitting and didn't know you could do it with other styles.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

immunurse said:


> The count is unaffected by whether you use M1 vs. KFB, but the appearance will be different.
> 
> Done correctly, M1 makes the smoothest transition, in my never-to-be-humble opinion and you can make the new stitch slant either to the right or the left, which can sometimes make a difference how professional the finished product looks.
> 
> ...


Thank You for a clear explanation, I just have one question:
When you do a Kfb then there isn't any slant only when you M1


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## ouijian (Apr 21, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> Another way you can end up with smaller holes is to just make single YOs and then work both of the two stitches called for in the following row into that single YO.
> 
> Some designers really do design for a very large hole and call for double YOs to achieve that. But sometimes they mainly specify double YOs so there are two pieces of yarn coming over the top of the needle for the two stitches to be worked into the YO on the following row. Particularly when you don't need or want a large hole you don't need to make double YOs.
> 
> (Hope this makes sense.)


It does make total sense. Since my scarf has single and double yarn overs it would be complicated to track all that activity. I might try this technique on a project that has only one type of yarn over. One complication is the fact that your stitch count by row would not match the pattern. Another complication is if your pattern shows the same stitch count for every row, it would be off every other row.

Still, this extra work would be worth it because I tend to like a tighter look...

I'm afraid I've hijacked the thread. Elise, thanks for your insight.


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## MrsMurdog (Apr 16, 2013)

If you look closely at the photo of the Spirello hats in the link below, two are made with M1 (R or L whichever is pick up through the back & twist) and the one on the far left is made with a make one in the back loop of the stitch. As you can see, one way made the spirals have more of a ridge and the M1 in the back loop made more of a flat spiral. Both look nice, but different.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-363455-1.html


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

KP is such a wonderful site when everyone gives their tips, I thank You because this thread had a lot ways of increasing.


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## DesertMaiden60 (Mar 14, 2014)

Really glad u brought this up. I hate the M1 I can never get it right. I messed up the All in One and am hesitant about starting the Summer Flies because of it. I'm not smart enough to do the math to substitute it with another method. So I guess I will be practicing the M1! Ugh


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## Linda333 (Feb 26, 2011)

When I make one (M1), I use a third needle to pick up the bar between the stitch I just made and the stitch on the left-hand needle. For me, this makes it much easier than attempting to pick up the bar with the left-hand needle. Give it a try.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

Linda333 said:


> When I make one (M1), I use a third needle to pick up the bar between the stitch I just made and the stitch on the left-hand needle. For me, this makes it much easier than attempting to pick up the bar with the left-hand needle. Give it a try.


Good idea! Then the whole needle can be turned to twist the stitch the way you want it before it is worked. :thumbup:


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

I used to feel like you and when I did try the M1 a not so nice hole appeared. I continued to try and watched some good Youtube videos and now enjoy making them in a pattern. 

In fact, I bought a beautiful shawl on Ravelry, worsted weight, and lo and behold each increase was done with either M1R or M1L. 

So, sometime you might just want to practice until you feel comfortable knitting this increase stitch. The more we learn the more doors will open to new and exciting patterns. Don't give up.


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## Knitting in the Rockys (Aug 17, 2015)

The m1L is lifted from front to back then knit through the back of the loop, m1R is lifted from back to front, then knit through the front of the loop. No twisting is needed and no resulting hole.

I'm working on a sport weight scarf right now that calls for executing 4 m1's on each right side row. The other day I tried kfb to see the difference, there is a difference. Then yesterday, I did it in place of all 4 m1's (ripped it out after the experiment) and asked non knitters at work, if they could see the difference. Everyone said that they could.

The particular stitch pattern I'm using is "dragon skin" and the difference shows quite a bit. Other stitch patterns, may not show the difference as much.


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> The m1L is lifted from front to back then knit through the back of the loop, m1R is lifted from back to front, then knit through the front of the loop. No twisting is needed and no resulting hole.
> 
> I'm working on a sport weight scarf right now that calls for executing 4 m1's on each right side row. The other day I tried kfb to see the difference, there is a difference. Then yesterday, I did it in place of all 4 m1's (ripped it out after the experiment) and asked non knitters at work, if they could see the difference. Everyone said that they could.
> 
> The particular stitch pattern I'm using is "dragon skin" and the difference shows quite a bit. Other stitch patterns, may not show the difference as much.


    I am doing a sweater that needs 4 M1R and 4 MIL on every row. A few months ago, someone posted that they always remember which is which by thinking that M1R = R for REAR (i.e. back of stitch). I now use this as an aid to get me through the rows.


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## ouijian (Apr 21, 2011)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> The m1L is lifted from front to back then knit through the back of the loop, m1R is lifted from back to front, then knit through the front of the loop. No twisting is needed and no resulting hole.
> 
> I'm working on a sport weight scarf right now that calls for executing 4 m1's on each right side row. The other day I tried kfb to see the difference, there is a difference. Then yesterday, I did it in place of all 4 m1's (ripped it out after the experiment) and asked non knitters at work, if they could see the difference. Everyone said that they could.
> 
> The particular stitch pattern I'm using is "dragon skin" and the difference shows quite a bit. Other stitch patterns, may not show the difference as much.


Oh I love dragon skin. I've got it bookmarked in my Barbara Walker book. I've been meaning to use it in a design. Are you knitting a specific design? If so, can you share which one?


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

CathyAnn said:


> One of my favorite increases is the Lifted Increase which I find is nearly invisible. A non-knitter would not likely notice it. Here is a video demonstrating how to knit it, right leaning and left leaning. If one increase only is called for, if it's placed on the right side, I'll use a left leaning increase; if on the left side, I'll use a right leaning one.
> 
> The M1R and M1L do leave a small hole that can be used as a decorative element - very attractive. I do not use the kfb very often because a bump is left on the right side, but it can also be a decorative element depending upon it's placement.
> 
> ...


I tend to use the lifted increase also: not always but usually.


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)




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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ01r1hWGks


    Thanks, I love Very Pink videos. Having watched this, I am not sure that this is easier than a M1 especially for the left-leaning, but I plan to make a trial sample using various techniques for 8-10 rows just to see the effect that they have and the ease of doing them.

Thanks for the link!


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## mollyknits (Jan 31, 2011)

It helps so much to see what each of these increases looks like and will help me choose in the future. Thank you so much AmyKnits!


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

DesertMaiden60 said:


> Really glad u brought this up. I hate the M1 I can never get it right. I messed up the All in One and am hesitant about starting the Summer Flies because of it. I'm not smart enough to do the math to substitute it with another method. So I guess I will be practicing the M1! Ugh


If you check the All In One pattern one more time you will see that it does NOT call for a M1... but calls for a YO which is knit on the following row leaving a lacy hole as part of the design, while increasing stitches.


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