# No pattern unless you buy the yarn...



## MamaKing (Jul 20, 2011)

Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


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## pugmom5 (Feb 19, 2011)

I have run into that alot. I saw a great tee shirt knitted at the Stitches expo. The designer would only sell the pattern with the yarn to go with it. I was so tempted. But the yarn was over $20 a skein and I would need 5 skeins. So, did not get it. Another designer at the expo had a great fan and feather top and would only sell you the pattern if you bought her yarn. Did not like her yarn, but the top had a skirt pattern too. If I got the yarn, it had to be enough to do the top and skirt..her "rules". Another no. Then a website I went to would only sell the pattern if you bought the yarn to go with it. It was Noro yarn and I have so much of that yarn, plus they did not have the colors I like for it. So another no.


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## Yarngrandma (Jul 19, 2011)

Boy that stinks! My lys only gives away free patterns if you buy the yarn, but I'll have to ask her about this new wrinkle.


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## ann bar (Jul 11, 2011)

Well...I would say that was "different"! How do they know you won't be back with three friends all purchasing expensive yarn to make some matching items. Doesn't seem like good customer service to me... :shock:


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## kentish lady (Jun 10, 2011)

the yarn shop say they will get left with all the yarn if they sold the pattern on its own,the yarn is always to expensive, thats why l try to get them on line if l can l find they will only sell the pattern when its an old .would be much better if they would do them in pdf


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## petitenwuk (Apr 1, 2011)

Yes thats happened to me as well. I took ages looking for a pattern only to be told they wouldn't sell it me with out the wool. I didn't buy the pattern.


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## Dreamweaver (Feb 1, 2011)

I have never seen this unless it was kitted already and priced accordingly. Then again, I have a very friendly yarn store - and still, I mostly just check out sale items. I have seen kitted crossstitch where you had to buy it all to get pattern. 

If this is going to be the new trend in yarn stores, they may find they are outfoxing themselves. Lots of free patterns available or cute ones without yarn stipulation. Lots of nice yarn at less cost and less gas. The computer doesn't even require that we get dressed!!


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## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

That is crazy. My LYS sells books and patterns seperatly. I really like her and she is always so helpful if you come in with a problem no matter wher you bought he yarn or pattern. The yarn shops are going to lose business if they take that road.


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## BellaNB (May 19, 2011)

Never heard of this before! Hope it is not a growing trend.

Linda


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## LindaH (Feb 1, 2011)

My LYS has a policy about their classes that is similar. They want you to sign up for their classes, but they require that you buy the yarn for the projects in the store. The other day when I was in the store, one of the ladies asked me why I would not sign up for a class for sweaters because I am obviously in need of help for this blasted Hey Teach sweater that I am trying to do.. I just told her quite honestly that I could either afford to do the class and bring my own yarn from my stash that I have marked for a sweater, or I could buy a couple of hanks from her and skip the class and muddle through it. I told her that I just could not justify paying $45 to $60 for a sock or sweater class and then pay another $25 to $50 for the yarn. 

Then she said.. "Well, obviously that would be the best case scenario.. but we would not turn you away if you bought your own yarn for the class."

Soooo, that means that maybe when they have the next sock or sweater class, I can get in on the class. I would love to take one, but I absolutely refuse to be made to buy something to get a pattern or learn a new skill. I just will not do it. I just got an e-mail the other day from Craftsy that has a new toe-up sock class online for the low cost of $24.99.. So, I got it and now I can learn MY way with MY yarn.. Works for me!


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## Poledra65 (Jul 6, 2011)

I have to agree that if this is a growing trend there will be less LYS's around. I understand making a profit, but that is just highway robbery, and what if they don't carry the yarn that said pattern calls for? Wild.


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## pattys76 (Apr 7, 2011)

I haven't had that problem, but if I did, i wouldn't go there anymore, and I'd tell them why.


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## nannaknits (Mar 30, 2011)

More and more online stores advertise free patterns but it is only if you buy the yarn for it first.. so i just dont bother.. so many great patterns listed on ravelry.. no need to bother with stores like this..


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## Vonni2 (Aug 9, 2011)

What a shame they do not use their noodle and order more patterns.


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## keenknitter_2009 (Mar 25, 2011)

i have come across this twice in wool shops here in australia too.the explanation was that people are buying patterns and then going to discout shops for their cheaper yarns.


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## PennyCole (Jul 14, 2011)

I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


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## jbagnall (Jun 14, 2011)

o yes this does happen frequently i even had this happen on a local market stall of all places. :evil: :twisted:


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## theresa1 (Apr 9, 2011)

When this happens (and it does) I always leave the store and say I will not come back as there are other wool shops I can go to.


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## lindakaren (Apr 22, 2011)

I think I'd try sweater wizard or Allfreeknitting.com. There are always choices. I think it was a poor move on the part of the yarn shop.


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## Janet.Sar (Jun 29, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


They wouldn't get away with this in the Uk either.... they'd be boycotted and go out of business!! :evil:


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## christineannj (May 27, 2011)

Yes I have come across this a lot. My answer is that I was going to buy the wool, but if that is your policy I will go elsewhere. Take a note of the pattern number and you will surely find it somewhere. 
Christine xx


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## sidecargrammie (Feb 14, 2011)

yes, went to CT to a knitting expo and they did the same thing there.....some people just can't afford the #20.00 a skein. I am a member of Ravelry also. I only download free patterns....if I had a pattern I would share for nothing, no fee.


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## Janet.Sar (Jun 29, 2011)

PennyCole said:


> I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


That's excellent practice.... I bet you get more business from this doing this and you deserve to.


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## Bucketknitter (Jan 25, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


That seems a bit strange--I would think they would want to make a sale regardless, unless they had their patterns priced at really, really low prices. I haven't run into that around here.

We do have shops that require you to buy the yarn there if taking a class which I guess does two things. Every student has the right yarn for the class and no time is wasted trying to get the right yarn for everyone, and the store makes a bit more money. I guess I don't really have a problem with that, because it helps both sides and most times one skein of yarn will do it for the class.

Karen


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## Ellicks (Mar 23, 2011)

Hello - I have come across this problem where I also found 2 or 3 patterns that I loved but I wanted to study the patterns firstly and then buy wool when I had had time to think about colours. I did not buy the patterns either. I live in Bristol, England
Me - Ellicks


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## PennyCole (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for that. Customers are very impressed particularly when I tell them to bring the pattern in when they buy the wool for a refund.


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## bonmouse65 (Jul 23, 2011)

I suspect that shops that do this are going to push themselves right out of the market. With all the free patterns and the help of my KP friends, I don't plan on ever paying for a pattern and I certainly would not fall prey to a shop insisting on you buying their yarn in order to get a pattern. That is so wrong for so many reasons. AND I, like pattys76, would tell them why I would no longer be coming there.


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## tatsfieldknitter (Jul 20, 2011)

This was very common years ago in England - things have improved since 'Pound' shops and chemist started to to knitting stuff and nearly died out since internet and free patterns to download - Smashing!


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## Valjean (Jul 21, 2011)

I have come across it a few times and it is annoying as it is always a nice pattern and horrible yarn or visa versa.


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## bonster (Jan 28, 2011)

Seems to me there are a lot of patterns out there that are readily available. We should not be forced to purchase a product we don't want, especially in this economy! I think you would really have to love the pattern to be forced to purchase expensive yarn.


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## pfarley4106 (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes, there's one here in in Garnet Valley,Pennsylvania on rte 202. A Garden of Yarn. The pattern is an obvious xerox from somewhere. Also to be fair the price is usually about a dollar and a couple of times she threw it in. But definitely no pattern unless there's a yarn purchase.
The other mistake she makes as a store owner, if a customer comes in with a knitting problem she charges them to help them. That's a big mistake. Where I used to live the owner did it for free and her shop was always full of people buying. They sit down, learn how to fix their problem, see others knitting and before you knew it they were purchase the yarn and patterns others were doing. ME included.


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## hilly68 (May 26, 2011)

I buy patterns then go home to see if I have the yarn. My LYS has yarn and patterns - over £3 per ball. I buy premium yarn for small projects from them and cheap yarn from my local department store £1.25 for 100g ball. I will not shop in a store that won't sell me just a pattern. 
M LYS ordered a pattern for me even though I didn't want the yarn 
The Pincushion rules!!


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## flmgsun (Jul 12, 2011)

I recently ran into this in a yarn store while on vacation. The shawl was made up and on display but you could only get the pattern if you bought that yarn. The shop owner gave the reason that the shawl was her own design so in order to get the pattern..I thought the shawl was beautiful but the yarn was too expensive for me. The pattern stayed there.


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## molly'smum (Jun 22, 2011)

I have not come across this yet I feel if shops priced their yarns at a reasonable price for all to buy they would not be having people walking out.With the economy the way it is and budgets tight to not be able to buy a pattern without the yarn is soon going to see yarn shops close down.
Can you go to a woollen mill and purchase the yarn like you can do in Australia maybe find if they have a mailing list


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## Elizabeth1743 (Apr 27, 2011)

I'd find another place to buy my yarn and patterns. That is ridiculous.


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## purl2diva (Feb 25, 2011)

I have been to several stores that do this in various parts of the country. If it is something that I really want, I don't mind doing it once in awhile. These people need to be able to stay in business--and that means selling
yarn. I frequent Michael's, JoAnn', etc. but I would really miss my LYS (which is 30 miles away!) Many of the on line stores will also give you a free pattern when you buy their yarn.


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## ranee (Jan 23, 2011)

YarnGrandma I see your in Cleveland Ohio I'm in Mentor Ohio where have you found some good yarn shops? Always looking but like its been said if you dont buy the yarn at their yarn they wont answer questions or sell the pattern. Like to hear from you. Ranee


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## maxjones (Aug 2, 2011)

This is quite common in the local shops around Philly.


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## jelun (Jan 26, 2011)

This seems like a very fair policy. It is a "rock and a hard place" situation, I guess. 
Crafters comment on not having LYS near them, but, would rather have an astounding stock of yarn picked up on the internet or inexpensively at a box store.
Nobody wins, it is expensive to stock and keep the product that people want. 
Pick a couple of selections that people don't want and you are w/o the rent money.



PennyCole said:


> I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


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## bonster (Jan 28, 2011)

Is it a matter of some yarn stores being more "snobby" that they charge to answer questions? I can understand if the same people come in continually asking questions and not buying anything that they would have a policy to charge something, but as a store owner (music) I find that helping people out with simple questions can create repeat customers and also a good reputation in the community.


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## ulrika (Jul 2, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


I have run into this to, but not in a shop. Mary Maxim does this. I get a magazine from them and there are really cool patterns in there, but you have to buy their yarn in order to get the pattern. Very annoying since a lot of their yarn is overpriced. I wouldn't mind paying just for the pattern.


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## RuthRoss (Mar 24, 2011)

Folks, I have read your comments and suggest you remember that, no matter how friendly your LYS is, the owners are in business to turn a profit. Getting stuck with yarn is no fun for a yarn shop. I see nothing wrong or "different" with "giving away" a particular pattern only if you purchase the yarn from them. It's a tough economy, even for yarn shops. After all, I read lots of you complaining or congratulating yourselves on the extent of your stashes; they don't want a big stash at the end of a "season." Don't mean to sound grumpy, but try to look at it from their point of view. Besides, you don't have to purchase patterns; there are zillions of free ones on the web.


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## sbradley (Mar 15, 2011)

My LYS has a terrific habit of showing the pattern with a "high end" yarn and again in a moderately priced yarn. Gives options and expands your thinking. They also sell more yarn that way. ;-) It is a nice balance between thinking of the customer but still selling yarn.


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## mainelynn (Mar 30, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


I wanted a pattern one time and didn't want to buy the kit, this was through Mary Maxim, I called them and just bought the pattern only it was for their deer or moose pattern not sure now, but it only cost me $7.00 for the pattern plus shipping and handling, not bad really if you want the pattern bad enough. Check out their web site might find something there if you do give them a call to see if they will sell just the pattern, sometimes it does not say on their site or in the catalog. Hope all have a wonderful day.


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## ulrika (Jul 2, 2011)

mainelynn said:


> MamaKing said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".
> ...


Thanks for the tip. I will try that. In their last issue there was a picture od a beautiful afghan on it and i would love to make it.


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## NyackGal (Apr 5, 2011)

I understand their reasoning,but it's not going to work...too mant "crafty"people out here!As many of the ladies pointed out,there are more than enough free patterns on the internet,plus great sites like this one...and I daresay we all have piles of books to look through for ideas.I think ACMoore and Michael's still have free patterns available in the store,too!


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## lolly1 (Jun 8, 2011)

I agree with you. My lys charges min. $45 for any class plus the cost of her yarn. I buy her patterns and sometimes her yarn if not too costly, but can't do it all. She charges $40/hr. to teach any class outside a scheduled class.


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## Cari (Aug 7, 2011)

I have never come across that situation and hope I never do. Greedy as far as I am concerned.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

I have never seen that. I can't believe it will help business, as someone can usually find the pattern somewhere online. It's a little like holding the pattern hostage until you spend money buying yarn.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Lionbrand is the only place that I have seen anything like this and that happens when they do workshops. They want you to buy their yarn for those events.

I can understand (but don't necessarily support) a designer
who has a such proprietorial attitude about their design and that the kind of yarn used is part of the design expression. However, when a store or yarn company that also sells patterns and accessories, makes this demand,I think I would walk as others have. 

Things like this reinforce for me the need we have to learn as much as we can about our craft. If we see something we like, we should be able to dissect its construction in our mind so we can recreate the concept. Then it becomes ours. I did this a bit this weekend. Someone was wearing a cotton sweater and I found myself staring at the armhole details and how they shaped it. I thought it was unique. Then I began to look at the shoulder which was also unique. This was not a handmade sweater, but could have been and I thought wouldn't it be neat to work in these details to something I Might like to make. I used to do this with architectural, particularly on some of the older houses that great detail that is no longer done in building. I guess I created a built-in (pardon the pun) habit in life. It is a fun habit.


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## past (Apr 3, 2011)

I have come across websites looking for free patterns. The patterns were free, but only after you placed the order for the yarn. Didn't bother bookmarking that page.


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## snowangles (May 24, 2011)

i buy my yarn from Walmart. and get my patterns from the internet.


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## Silverneedles (Jan 29, 2011)

I live in Ri and go to a new yarn shop called Sisters of the Wool in Westport,Ma and brought in a printed pattern from one of my site and she ordered the yarn for me cause the color I wanted she didn't have . she was fine with that.


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## 3mom (Apr 20, 2011)

ann bar said:


> Well...I would say that was "different"! How do they know you won't be back with three friends all purchasing expensive yarn to make some matching items. Doesn't seem like good customer service to me... :shock:


I agree. That's true, not good PR. Stay away from that store! Cheaper to get yarn on the net.


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## Bethknits79 (Jul 19, 2011)

I go to Freeport a couple times a year. I've not come across that problem but I get most of my yarn from Joann's and Craft Mania.


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## 3mom (Apr 20, 2011)

petitenwuk said:


> Yes thats happened to me as well. I took ages looking for a pattern only to be told they wouldn't sell it me with out the wool. I didn't buy the pattern.


How about buying both, copying the pattern, and then taking both back? I know that's not copasectic (?) but neither is what they did to you. :thumbdown:


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

Linda H.

Please keep me posted on how you are coming along with the Hey Teach sweater~ I have that pattern also and had planned to make two of them. I am a relatively new knitter, and thought it was supposed to be a comparatively easy pattern.


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## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

PennyCole said:


> I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


You are a smart businesswoman.


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## Dknitter (Apr 3, 2011)

Happened to me in Santa Fe,NM. Did not buy it. Too expensive!


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## cwood4816 (Feb 20, 2011)

I have even been in yarn shops in which they will not even sell/give you the pattern when you buy other yarn. You have to purchase that specific yarn, most times I don't like the colors, or you will not get the pattern even if you offer to buy it.


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## ChatChewSew (Aug 9, 2011)

I, too, have visited the shop you mentioned several times over the years but never felt welcomed or well-served as a customer. Local (LYS) can have different meanings to different people, but my personal take on it is it's local if I can drive to it in about an hour because Maine is a huge state geographically. I highly recommend The Yardgoods Center in Waterville, Maine. They are tremendously customer-centered with their sales, ordering of yarns and patterns, classes, groups, impromptu help, etc. I always leave their yarn department with a smile on my face (even when I've spent more than I wanted)! They also offer fabric, sewing machines, stamping, card making, embroidery, lamp shade supplies, needlepoint, and more...It's a unique experience!


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## Janina (May 2, 2011)

It is terrible to profit from people.
If I were you I would not buy the pattern and just go elsewhere. It may be tempting because the pattern is very nice but I would just say, no thank you, I am sure I will find something similar, even nicer elsewhere.

That really sucks! 
Janine :thumbdown:


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## engteacher (Jul 9, 2011)

My yarn shop will sell patterns, yarn, whatever - no strings attached. They suggest less expensive yarns for the project if they carry something suitable. Classes are only $10-$20 usually and you must use their yarn and the pattern is free. I can understand and agree with all that. BUT - if I purchase their pattern and use MY yarn, they will not help with any problems. That is why I come to you folks. Simply cannot afford much of LYS yarn.


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## jan m (Jul 5, 2011)

My LYS shop requires purchasing the yarn from them for any class you take there. The instructors and projects are wonderful--well worth the tuition, $40-$60. However, the project yarn is always very expensive. I don't see spending $120 (shawl) to $200 (sweater) on yarn for a learning project. I'd rather practice with a cheap yarn, master the technique then buy 'good' yarn.


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## blizz61 (Jul 5, 2011)

I haven't seen that at a yarn shop, however, my future DIL wants me to crochet or knit her wedding gown. I found a beautiful skirt she wanted. The ad said free pattern. However, when I tried to get it, the yarn has been discontinued and the only way to get the pattern was to buy yarn from the company. I think it was Elan yarns? Frustrating.


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## Janet Odell (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, I have and the salesperson was not nice about it. I have never run in to that in a local yarn shop. They are always friendly and helpful. It was just a simple pattern that she got off-line. I am not going back to that shop even though I like the yarn.


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## sldye8377 (May 17, 2011)

It happened to me, the yarn was silk and ?? for $28 a 3 oz skein. Needless to say, I did not purchase, but did ask regarding the pattern. I could purchase the pattern for $7.50. I searched for a book or magazine with a similar pattern & technique. I debated and I ended up purchasing the pattern only.


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## Loves2Knit (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't understand what people are thinking by making you buy yarn for a pattern. What about the people who are allergic to wool, as is the case in my family? Am I really suppose to buy expensive yarn and keep it in a plastic bag to gather dust? And who would buy this expensive stuff as "second hand" yarn? Ridiculous!


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## knitpurltink (Aug 9, 2011)

Hello, I also signed up for the Sock class of Craftsy and am thrilled with the price, too!


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

flmgsun said:


> I recently ran into this in a yarn store while on vacation. The shawl was made up and on display but you could only get the pattern if you bought that yarn. The shop owner gave the reason that the shawl was her own design so in order to get the pattern..I thought the shawl was beautiful but the yarn was too expensive for me. The pattern stayed there.


Since it was her own design, she really missed the boat - she could have priced the pattern separately and then had the yarn available. Especially if this was in a popular vacation spot - many vacationers do not have room in their luggage for a yarn purchase but, if they have the info, they will order it when they get home.


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

RuthRoss said:


> Folks, I have read your comments and suggest you remember that, no matter how friendly your LYS is, the owners are in business to turn a profit. Getting stuck with yarn is no fun for a yarn shop. I see nothing wrong or "different" with "giving away" a particular pattern only if you purchase the yarn from them. It's a tough economy, even for yarn shops. After all, I read lots of you complaining or congratulating yourselves on the extent of your stashes; they don't want a big stash at the end of a "season." Don't mean to sound grumpy, but try to look at it from their point of view. Besides, you don't have to purchase patterns; there are zillions of free ones on the web.


Yes, they are in business to make a profit. It would seem to be that ordering extra patterns and less yarn would allow them to sell patterns and still make a profit. I bet that, often, after someone buys the pattern and looks for cheaper yarn, they come back to buy the expensive yarn especially if there was a sample made of the expensive yarn.


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## lorraine magee (Jan 20, 2011)

pattern works doe,s that. it,s ok if you will use the pattern again,but you don,t always do that.i was going to take a quilting class with a friend that didn,t want to go alone. when i asked the price of the class ,i was told if i had to ask the price i couldn,t afford it. nice lady we didn,t take the class. some times people don,t undestand that you always can,t afford it. as a senior on a fixed income.that,s why i have a stash. keep knitting it keeps the mind active.


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## Rumrunner (Mar 21, 2011)

I wouldn't buy it on principal--that really is very poor customer service (and bad Karma). There are so many places to serch on the Internet, I'm sure you'll find the same pattern there.


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

Janina said:


> It is terrible to profit from people.
> If I were you I would not buy the pattern and just go elsewhere. It may be tempting because the pattern is very nice but I would just say, no thank you, I am sure I will find something similar, even nicer elsewhere.
> 
> That really sucks!
> Janine :thumbdown:


Businesses are in business to make a profit. That is not wrong and if they don't make a profit, they won't stay in business long. However, there are many ways to make a profit and some of the practices mentioned in the thread are not smart business practices. These LYS shops need a good, practical business class.


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## pdstuart (Jul 5, 2011)

I had a "friend" in Oklahoma who owned a yarn shop. She had a pattern for an icelandic sweater that I wanted so badly. I saved my money for a month and bought the yarn so I could get the free pattern and I made copies of the pattern for friends because I'm allergic to wool yarn and this lady didn't seem to be sensitive to my need for something other than the wool yarn the pattern was paired with. I gave the sweater to my sister with explicit instructions NOT to wash it and I made me another sweater with acrylic yarn. My sister washed the sweater anyway and it drew up so badly, she couldn't have used it for a dog sweater!


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## scrappinmagic (Apr 29, 2011)

BABYANDBOO'SMOTHER said:


> petitenwuk said:
> 
> 
> > Yes thats happened to me as well. I took ages looking for a pattern only to be told they wouldn't sell it me with out the wool. I didn't buy the pattern.
> ...


that is actually illegal and totally wrong. It's like buying a dress for a special event, wearing it then taking it back the next day. If someone buys my patterns (although right now only pdf files) I will NOT refund if they try to return it, even if I did have printed copies that I mailed to them.


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## Lesleyknits (Aug 9, 2011)

Usually, the patterns that are given only with purchase of yarn are the original design of the store. They are not commercial patterns, and are designed specifically for that yarn


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Why don't they just sell the pattern? This way everyone could be happy. One of the biggest problems I see in this world anymore is greed. I worked at a craft show for a vendor once and thought great I will make some money to pay for my gas - no no no - they wanted me to take it out in products. To top it off they told me to be there at 7am, which it took me an hour to hour and a half to get there and then didn't start me until about an hour later and I didn't get paid for being there at 7. Then I was given an 1/2 unpaid lunch - no I wouldn't ever work for them again. Hope you find the patterns you are looking for and at a good price - free is best!


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## pdstuart (Jul 5, 2011)

This one pattern in particular, I know for a fact, the lady didn't design it.


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## MarySandra (Mar 23, 2011)

RuthRoss said:


> Folks, I have read your comments and suggest you remember that, no matter how friendly your LYS is, the owners are in business to turn a profit. Getting stuck with yarn is no fun for a yarn shop. I see nothing wrong or "different" with "giving away" a particular pattern only if you purchase the yarn from them. It's a tough economy, even for yarn shops. After all, I read lots of you complaining or congratulating yourselves on the extent of your stashes; they don't want a big stash at the end of a "season." Don't mean to sound grumpy, but try to look at it from their point of view. Besides, you don't have to purchase patterns; there are zillions of free ones on the web.


I agree that it is a tough economy so a business should do everything it can to encourage sales and customers to come to their shops and feel comfortable. The closest I come to this is a beautiful yarn shop that gave you the pattern free if you bought the yarn to make it, if not you paid for the pattern. There are at least 15 yarn shops in this area and you can tell the ones that are friendly.


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## Grannybear (Mar 29, 2011)

keenknitter_2009 said:


> i have come across this twice in wool shops here in australia too.the explanation was that people are buying patterns and then going to discout shops for their cheaper yarns.


You would wonder why the lightbulb doesn't go on for some of these shop owners that those of us on fixed incomes cannot afford their designer yarns for every project we do so maybe they should diversify a little and offer some of the less expensive yarns as well. I will often pick up a nice skein to highlight a particular garment but could never afford the luxury of making the whole thing of the expensive yarn.


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## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


Hmmmm, makes me rethink my desire to stop in there when I'm upcountry. However, for the most part I've only run into this when a kit is sold, since the pattern is part of the kit. That said, I can see the point, since most yarn shops operate on a pretty small margin of profit and oftentimes they can't get the pattern without purchasing the yarn from the wholesaler. If they don't sell the yarn, they end up stuck with an inventory that they can't move and a sale price may only then net them pennies, if that. Many wholesalers require$1000 or more in bulk purchases to sell to a retail shop, which represents an awful lot of inventory to be left with if it doesn't sell, even if it the next best thing since sliced bread when bought.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Ruth yes everyone wants to make a profit, but $20.00 a skein is highway robbery. Also people can be nice even if a customer doesn't purchase from them, as you never know when that customer might send someone your way or return to your shop. A little kindness goes a long way.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Life seems to all about the $$$$ and they don't care about people on a limited income. I know how you feel as I am in the same boat - crowded, but good company.


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## bizzyknitter (May 10, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


Yes...there was a yarn store where I lived that I really loved. They had the best yarns and everytime I wanted to knit something for my little grandchildren I had to buy the yarn from them...and they were not cheap either. But my grandchildren had the cutest sweaters..I guess it was well worth it.


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

In Toronto, Ontario I love a shop called Americo Original. Similarly, they give the pattern away free with the purchase of yarn. Yes, the yarn is expensive, but you shop there if you are looking for something unique. They design their own patterns, have a pattern book, anything you choose they will help with suitable yarn. They also offer free knitting classes and will help you with all your projects. You can also sit in on their classes free and bring in your own projects. I think it's fair. I have another shop I deal with for much less expensive yarn, The Yarn Boutique, where they also offer classes for a price, but will gladly help with any project. Both shops are great for the social aspect they offer.


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## tootsie001 (Jan 23, 2011)

It sounds to me that they are creating kits. Isn't a kit a pattern and yarn to knit the project in a bag bought at the same time? Or not a kit as you get a choice of color? Wouldn't it be great to buy the "kit " and get the help you need at the store? I know it would be good for business. Some stores only give you help if you purchase the pattern and yarn at their stores. Most charity knitting groups have people attending who are happy to share their knowledge with you. You can kit a few hats or a shawl and bring your other project that you need help with and I am sure you will get the aid you need without the expense. Hope these ideas help---Good luck


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## nevadalynn (Apr 27, 2011)

there is a shop in San Francisco that does the same thing - so I bought the yarn to get a beautiful scarf pattern and then found the pattern on Knitting Central - hmmmm....I am thinking that she didn't make that pattern at all.........


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## nevadalynn (Apr 27, 2011)

there is a shop in San Francisco that does the same thing - so I bought the yarn to get a beautiful scarf pattern and then found the pattern on Knitting Central - hmmmm....I am thinking that she didn't make that pattern at all.........


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

A free pattern site: knitty.com, used the Cotton Flamme yarn from Americo Original in a few of their projects, and those patterns are featured at Americo. They direct you to the Knitty site for the pattern when you purchase the yarn. Kits are not offered, because you have a wide variety of options in types of suitable yarn for any one project. Visit their site at americo.co and you will see what I am describing.


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## JannyW (Apr 2, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


I've never run across that! I go to a beautiful yarn shop in Southport, NC almost exclusively for their patterns ... their yarns are a bit too pricey! Although I did spring for a beautiful Jordana Paige bag once ...


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## DotS (Jun 25, 2011)

I had this happen to me a year or so ago. The baby blanket pattern was in a paperbound book with about 12 patterns. I bought the yarn, got the book free and have made several blankets. That worked out well.


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## royalist (Apr 27, 2011)

I live in a smaller community and at one time we had three yarn shops. There is only one left now. She has classes, which are expensive and also expensive yarn. She only sells expensive books 25-30 dollars and the single patterns average 8-9 dollars. She is still in business, but this is her second job. I do believe this is why there are fewer and fewer yarn shops in Canada


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## royalist (Apr 27, 2011)

I live in a smaller community and at one time we had three yarn shops. There is only one left now. She has classes, which are expensive and also expensive yarn. She only sells expensive books 25-30 dollars and the single patterns average 8-9 dollars. She is still in business, but this is her second job. I do believe this is why there are fewer and fewer yarn shops in Canada


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## jostgaman3 (Aug 1, 2011)

Marma, that is an interesting "sales method"??? We only have one lovely little yarn shop in our area here in Washington State and the owner bends over backward to be helpful in any way she can...I'll have to tell her about this "interesting" plan to force sales...she'll just LOL. &#9829; Kathie


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## RavinRed (Apr 18, 2011)

My LYS gives a free pattern with a yarn purchase....you can pick any pattern you want from a myriad of books and it does not have to be for the yarn you purchase. If you do not buy yarn then you have to pay for the pattern. Buying yarn is not a requirement. Next time you encounter this get the manufacturer and the pattern number and go online and find it....I am sure you will find it somewhere where it can be purchased separately.


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

Reading the many replies, I think we can all agree that there are many options available, be it a shop that sells unique products, a shop that is small but offers a nice variety of yarns, you can go to the internet for free patterns, patterns you can order on line, yarns you can order online, YouTube for help videos, there is something for everyone. Happy Knitting.


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## teacherhaak (Apr 3, 2011)

I want to brag on my LYS--Hillcreek Yarn Shoppe, in Columbia, Missouri. This shop is so shopper friendly. They offer lots of free patterns. They don't make you buy yarn in order to get pattern, free or not. Their classes are wonderful--excellent teachers who are always willing to help you with problems. They have a "yarn doctor" on certain days to help with knitting/crochet problems. If you purchase yarn/tools for class, you get a discount. They welcome knitters to come in and knit awhile. There is a knit shop in the town where I live, but I go to HYS because of the help I get and the friendliness/expertise of the staff.


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## jostgaman3 (Aug 1, 2011)

mousepotato said:


> MamaKing said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".
> ...


That information puts things in a different light...glad I'm not trying to make a living in a yarn shop...but I would love being there with lots of enthusiastic knitter/crocheter/creators. 
♥ Kathie


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## Weezieo77 (Feb 24, 2011)

That is too bad that they resort to their silly rules. It makes for bad feelings and then the story is repeated. Makes for business going elsewhere!!


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Good way to sell yarn, but not totally honest.


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## Jeannine (Mar 2, 2011)

I have found a couple of beautiful cabled blanket patterns at Herrschner's that were only sold with Herrschner's acrylic yarn. I really dislike the acrylic yarns but the cost of the entire kit was doable, so I went ahead and made the purchase. Right now, I'm using the acrylic yarn that came with the pattern to make the blanket for a wonderful gentleman across the hall from me at work who's daughter-in-law is expecting her first child in November. He did not ask me to do it but is such a wonderful person I wanted to do something for him. It was also a good way to get rid of the acrylic yarn I didn't like and put it to good use. Now that I have the pattern, when I make the blanket again for a family member, I'll purchase good quality yarn to do it. It really does stink though that Herrschner's won't let you purchase all their patterns separately. No doubt they wouldn't sell the lesser quality yarns without doing so. In any event, I'll post the cable blanket when I've finished it.


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## Isis (Mar 24, 2011)

Hmm, my local yarn store does the opposite, you can either buy the yarn and the pattern or you can take your own pattern and get the yarn that you like to do that pattern in and they are always willing to help you - whether you got the pattern there or not.
My latest creation is a pattern from the internet and the yarn was bought at Joann's but they still helped me out at the weekend with a minor problem I had.


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

keenknitter_2009 said:


> i have come across this twice in wool shops here in australia too.the explanation was that people are buying patterns and then going to discout shops for their cheaper yarns.


Well, duh!


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

This is ideal. Next project, you will likely shop there first for your yarn. This is how you build come-back customers. I once dropped in a shop I came upon driving in an area. I had a few patterns with me and they carried the recommended yarn. I was surprised and delighted to find the yarn, so of course I purchased it. She didn't have the colour I wanted, but she ordered it for me. I have returned to that shop to purchase yarn for many, many projects and I have developed a wonderful working friendship with the shop owner.


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## scrappinmagic (Apr 29, 2011)

I see a lot of you are mentioning getting the pattern for FREE when you purchase the yarn. The OP wanted to BUY the pattern, not get it for nothing. If someone wants to purchase a pattern, I don't see how limits can be placed on a purchase. "You can ONLY BUY the pattern if you buy the yarn"? just doesn't seem right. Now I CAN understand a FREE pattern if you buy the yarn.


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

Some times, it is part of a kit, and the pattern itself has little value. The store makes its profits on the sale of yarn. With so many yarn stores closing due to lack of sales, supporting them seems like a good idea.

I do think it unfair when a store requires you to purchase yarn when purchasing a pattern leaflet or book - I did hear of a store that did that.


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

My take is the economy is so bad that the yarn stores are trying a new tatic to get people to buy yarn. While I love to knit and crochet I see that this is going to come back and bite them in the ankles and they are going to have more yarn tangled about their feet when customers stop buying because they can't purchase what they want to use for a pattern. What do the owners think that people have money trees in their yards or that we can make it ourselves like the government. Sorry about the political rant everyone. But we all know things are going to increase in price and fall back on the consumer.


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## carapetunia (Apr 24, 2011)

keenknitter_2009 said:


> i have come across this twice in wool shops here in australia too.the explanation was that people are buying patterns and then going to discout shops for their cheaper yarns.


Many of our yarn shops in our area are seeing the same trend. People come into the brick and mortar shops to be able to touch and see the yarn and then leave and go on line to buy what they want at a discounted rate. I have sympathy with the shop owners and if we knitters want to have local yarn shops we need to understand the value added services they provide.

I cannot count how many times I see people come in with yarn and patterns they purchased elsewhere and expect help with the pattern. The staff are always polite but to me that is like buying your own food and taking it to a restaurant and asking them to cook at a reduced cost because you provided the basics.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Vonni2 said:


> What a shame they do not use their noodle and order more patterns.


The way they need to use their noodle is not to buy the "too expensive" yarn in the first place! Used to work in a LYS. If the distributor tried some shady stuff she would not bite. If the shops won't bite, the distributors will stop.


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## hilly68 (May 26, 2011)

PennyCole said:


> I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


Penny, I am just outside Beaconsfield - is this the shop on Hart St? Haven't visited yet but you are on my list  Marie


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## janette777 (Jun 11, 2011)

Hi all, My solution if I were the store owner would be to keep some less expensive yarn and order less of the expensive stuff. People who knit usually buy the best THEY can afford and all the rules in the world won't change what THEY cvan afford. I belong to a group that knits in a knitting store every week. They prefer of course that we use their yarn, but most is quite pricey. What happens is the people who can't afford to make a large sweater etc will buy small amounts for scarves and mitts. A lot of little sales is better than missed large ones in my book. Not sayin -just sayin you know?


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## kvarosi (Jun 23, 2011)

I have encounter this at fleece shows, yarn shops and have promised myself never to purchase from the vendors again.


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## ingrid krysiak (Jun 5, 2011)

hipugmom5,thats disgusting,at the price of the yarn at20$ askein they should give the pattern free, i buy pattern sometimes inmy local shop but most mypatterns are fromdifferentsites andfree.ingrid


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## Evelyn Coleman (Mar 13, 2011)

I was in Madison Indiana last year and visited their local
store. The pattern I wanted was from Plymouth but she
would not sell it unless you bought the Plymouth yarn.
Maybe it was something the yarn reps set up.
Anyway, I didn't buy it.


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## dvikander (Aug 4, 2011)

I usually don't reply but this thread got my attention. I have recently started designing patterns and put alot of hours into them to make sure they are correct and easy for people to understand. I think it is great to have some free patterns but I think people are expecting everything to be free. I also work for a couple yarn shops and I know they have had situations that the yarn companies send them patterns to give away with the purshase of yarn. Sometimes it is out of there control. I also teach classes and spend many hours getting ready for the class and with a $30 class fee I make about $2/hour. I understand with the economy times are hard for everyone. If you want your LYS to stay open you need to buy your yarn there. I would have a hard time bringing yarn from someplace else into my LYs. I love going there to sit and knit and I love teaching there so I want her to stay open. I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth as a teacher and a designer.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

I get the Craftsy newsletter also and I was wondering is $24.99 really a low price?? if so I will think more on taking the classes. I clearly can't afford it now but I would love to in the future. I don't even know where in my (100 mile radius) to even find a knitting class..So this would be my only resource..



LindaH said:


> My LYS has a policy about their classes that is similar. They want you to sign up for their classes, but they require that you buy the yarn for the projects in the store. The other day when I was in the store, one of the ladies asked me why I would not sign up for a class for sweaters because I am obviously in need of help for this blasted Hey Teach sweater that I am trying to do.. I just told her quite honestly that I could either afford to do the class and bring my own yarn from my stash that I have marked for a sweater, or I could buy a couple of hanks from her and skip the class and muddle through it. I told her that I just could not justify paying $45 to $60 for a sock or sweater class and then pay another $25 to $50 for the yarn.
> 
> Then she said.. "Well, obviously that would be the best case scenario.. but we would not turn you away if you bought your own yarn for the class."
> 
> Soooo, that means that maybe when they have the next sock or sweater class, I can get in on the class. I would love to take one, but I absolutely refuse to be made to buy something to get a pattern or learn a new skill. I just will not do it. I just got an e-mail the other day from Craftsy that has a new toe-up sock class online for the low cost of $24.99.. So, I got it and now I can learn MY way with MY yarn.. Works for me!


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## MamaKing (Jul 20, 2011)

ChatChewSew said:


> I, too, have visited the shop you mentioned several times over the years but never felt welcomed or well-served as a customer. Local (LYS) can have different meanings to different people, but my personal take on it is it's local if I can drive to it in about an hour because Maine is a huge state geographically. I highly recommend The Yardgoods Center in Waterville, Maine. They are tremendously customer-centered with their sales, ordering of yarns and patterns, classes, groups, impromptu help, etc. I always leave their yarn department with a smile on my face (even when I've spent more than I wanted)! They also offer fabric, sewing machines, stamping, card making, embroidery, lamp shade supplies, needlepoint, and more...It's a unique experience!


I will definitely check out Yardgoods Center... that would be a fun road trip. I am in Gorham... where are you


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

Makes me want to start an alpaca ranch so I can get my own yarn by spinning and dying it myself. Or just stop knitting and crocheting until prices come down. In the mean time I could collect pattern books. And speaking of patterns as I was surfing I saw a very lovely vintage blouse that was knitted but I can't remember exactly where one day I will find it again. Have a great day everyone, off to the dock to go shrimping.


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## NMKnittinggrani (Jun 25, 2011)

My goodness! I have never seen that unless it was a kit that was already packaged. I, like some others who have already posted, certainly would not buy at a shop like that. Seems to me they are cutting off their nose to spite their face - think how many sales they could be missing. Too bad!


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## pamgillies1 (Aug 6, 2011)

It happens in England too. I will not go to these stores, I have even stopped shopping at one store because she has put her single pattern prices up to £4+
Pam


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## Lillian V (Feb 13, 2011)

I,too, have come across this situation of buying their yarn for the pattern. It is just not good customer buildimg relationships. Their (shop) loss.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Thank you for that reply dvikander sometimes we forget all the work that goes into these beautiful items. I guess we get spoiled by the free information that we can get on the internet these days. I for one factor in the price I pay for internet to justify getting a free pattern.. or other valuable information. I make it a rule that I need to get something more than solitare for my monthly bill... LOL
But your right I have been in some wonderful yarn stores and would hate to loose that opportunity over a descision that put that in jepordy. I would suggest that if they insist we buy the yarn to get the pattern that they put it in a packaged deal so it would be more economical for us to do.. they sell kits for most crafts and the kit is usually a better buy.. plus once the kit is bought the pattern can be used again.. Thank you for bringing this to our attention..


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## rabuckler (Mar 19, 2011)

wow! That's terrible. They should be happy to sell you just the pattern. You might come back later and buy something else.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> Life seems to all about the $$$$ and they don't care about people on a limited income. I know how you feel as I am in the same boat - crowded, but good company.


kittykatzmom (just know you love kats)---societies that subscribe to a capitalist economic system become all about $$$$$ and power. That is exactly what that system is all about. We, as individuals, can try to develop and maintain humanistic values, but when doing business, it is all about what capitalist defines as valuable---$$$$$$$$$$$ But will note, that it gets harder and harder to do as we get forced more and more to deal on that level of individualism, self-centeredness, and personal aggrandizement. I have watched, studied, and worked with this problem for many years and it is quite frustrating. Fortunately, there are still people who share my values and become my oasis in the midst of such human grayness.


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## jennyb (Mar 20, 2011)

Thurs is help and visiting day at lys. She has lots of single patterns books etc. for sale. She also has binders full of free patterns. There is no stipulation to buy yarn if you buy a pattern. I have taken wip in with yarn from joann and she has helped me. I go back every Thurs and bought much of my yarn from her.


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## cowcollector (Jul 11, 2011)

If you have to buy the yarn to go with the pattern, it should be packaged that way, not separate. OR have a sign that says it would ONLY be sold with the yarn


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## margie1992 (Apr 27, 2011)

I now live in Colorado, but I am originally from Missouri. I actually went to MU in Columbia. When I was back last month, I took my mother to Hill Creek. She sat and talked to the women knitting as we happened to hit the store's TGIF knit night. Mom bought yarn and a knitting magazine. I bought yarn, a pattern and a stitch holder. Great store, friendly people. Absolutely no pressure to buy any thing and/or match yarns to purchase a pattern. If you're in Columbia, MO -- go -- you won't be sorry.


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## Jeannine (Mar 2, 2011)

margie1992 said:


> I now live in Colorado, but I am originally from Missouri. I actually went to MU in Columbia. When I was back last month, I took my mother to Hill Creek. She sat and talked to the women knitting as we happened to hit the store's TGIF knit night. Mom bought yarn and a knitting magazine. I bought yarn, a pattern and a stitch holder. Great store, friendly people. Absolutely no pressure to buy any thing and/or match yarns to purchase a pattern. If you're in Columbia, MO -- go -- you won't be sorry.


If you're in Colorado (Cherry Creek North area) you have to check out LambShoppe (http://www.thelambshoppe.com/). The store and the people there are outstanding on all levels!!! It's one of the few places I'd love to get snowed in at!!!


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## addiction (Jul 29, 2011)

I have run into this dilemna. It sounds like a good share program to me. Maybe we could search this avenue for others to share patterns they have purchased using a particular yarn.
Can't get around a problem, go through it.


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

dvikander said:


> I usually don't reply but this thread got my attention. I have recently started designing patterns and put alot of hours into them to make sure they are correct and easy for people to understand. I think it is great to have some free patterns but I think people are expecting everything to be free. I also work for a couple yarn shops and I know they have had situations that the yarn companies send them patterns to give away with the purshase of yarn. Sometimes it is out of there control. I also teach classes and spend many hours getting ready for the class and with a $30 class fee I make about $2/hour. I understand with the economy times are hard for everyone. If you want your LYS to stay open you need to buy your yarn there. I would have a hard time bringing yarn from someplace else into my LYs. I love going there to sit and knit and I love teaching there so I want her to stay open. I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth as a teacher and a designer.


You hit the nail on the head! People feel everything should be free, but who pays for the person who has the skill to design these wonderful patterns we love to knit? And having someone there to guide you through so you end up with a successful project, isn't that worth something -- I think it's worth a lot. If your project is successful, you will likely undertake another, and another, and another....


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## tallieu (Feb 10, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


I've seen classes advertised in yarn stores that give you the pattern with the payment for the class and then recommend the yarn. I wouldn't take a class that required a particular yarn because I'm allergic to wool and most of the yarn stores around here recommend wool for their classes. Wish I could knit with wool because I'd love to felt something, anything . . .


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I am signed up for a color workshop in NYC this Friday at LionBrand store. This is a free workshop with no yarn requirement purchase. Of course, they will prefer that you do purchase their yarn. Other workshops they offer will require you to purchase their yarn. I will see what LB yarn I have in the house suitable for color work and take it. Unfortunately I don't have much LB yarn at all and it does not lend itself for intertwining on a single project.--Oh well, will do the best I can and maybe plan to purchase a small something from them. The trip to the City will be costly enough as I lost my car last month and am still haggling with the insurance co over what they will give me.

BTW--anyone in the Mid-Hudson Valley who would like to car pool to the City--let me know. It could be a fun day.


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## MoMo (Apr 28, 2011)

There is a new little yarn shop here in Madison that does this, too. You have to buy the whole " kit" even though I believe it is assembled there in the store. My sister and I bought one kit each and never again.... there was barely yarn to complete. We each had less than 5 yards of yarn left...despite making gauge squares....Mo Mo


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## rtricola (Feb 11, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


There is a shop here in St Paul, MN, that does that and I think it's so unfair.. I just go elsewhere.


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## Martuconn (Aug 9, 2011)

I've been to a yarn shop where they won't let you try on their samples. I saw a sweater I dearly loved found the yarn and just asked if I could try it on to see how it fit. When they said no I put the yarn and pattern back and they lost a good customer.


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## rtricola (Feb 11, 2011)

PennyCole said:


> I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.


Good for you..and your customers. If I lived in England, you'd see me often.


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## addiction (Jul 29, 2011)

This sounds like a great share propram opportunity. Any one willing to share their purchased patterns or swap out out patterns for patterns typed to particular brand yarns.
This is one answer to this program. I have run into this
dilemna myself and feel hostage to purchasing the yarn.


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## hilly68 (May 26, 2011)

I went to my LYS today - had a lovely chat with Caroline, we helped a man but a crochet hook for his wife (yes that's right - and he bought Harmony double ended ones!!), but only managed to spend £5.15. For this I got 3 balls of yarn and a button for the baby bag that is for the baby being born as I type!! There is always a warm welcome, a smile and no pressure to buy anything. I love my LYS and there is another one round the corner from where my son has his saxaphone lesson. Both shops (one wife one husband) carry a range of priced yarns. They stopped selling the top end uk brands, but sell wonderful European yarn and wool. Long may they continue.


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## Jeannine (Mar 2, 2011)

rtricola said:


> PennyCole said:
> 
> 
> > I have a wool shop in Henley on Thames, England and if someone buys a pattern to go with our own wool from our own farm they pay £3 for it. If they buy the wool the pattern is free and if they buy the pattern and not the wool and then bring the pattern in with them when they buy the wool I refund the cost of the pattern. We are also just about to put ALL our patterns up on our website as epatterns for free downloads.
> ...


What an excellent store policy. You'd see me often too. In the mean time, I'll just have to keep saving for plane fare (and yarn).


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## frostyfranny (Jul 29, 2011)

This happened to me in our local shop years ago when I used to buy tangled wool direct from a mill. We also kept a shop so when the lady came in to buy some teabags I told her she couldn't have them unless she bought the milk and sugar to go with them. Fortunately she closed down shortly after that


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## Knitnutty (Feb 9, 2011)

And then they wonder why no one comes in to buy from them. To many end up going out of business and poor customer service doesn't help.


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## judyr (Feb 20, 2011)

There are so many free patterns on the internet. I also find that the LYS stores have expensive yarn, which is to be expected since they have overhead, etc. When you figure all that in, they probably are in a corner with charging for the yarn. I have found the Knitting Warehouse on line is quite inexpensive with their yarn and they carry name brand yarns. I am with all of you, if I have to buy the yarn at high prices just to get the pattern, I can do without it. Things are getting out of hand, economy size. Just like sewing, I used to do it to save money, but material got too high, just like yarn is getting too high. But I digress, sorry.


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## MsMac (Jan 13, 2011)

That sounds like one of those "cutting off your nose to spite your face" things. Bet they have lots of potential sales walking out the door!


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## joannav (Jul 16, 2011)

so Peppersmom where in the world (think Waldo) is this lovely shop I live in the Niagara region and will go anywhere in Southern Ontario for decent and wonderful service .. thanks also checked out Yarn Boutique online and as of today they are moving the Amercio is not suitable for my requirements right now but their product does look amazing thanks again..........


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

dvikander said:


> I usually don't reply but this thread got my attention. I have recently started designing patterns and put alot of hours into them to make sure they are correct and easy for people to understand. I think it is great to have some free patterns but I think people are expecting everything to be free.


These people are not complaining about no free patterns, they're complaining about the SHOP requiring that you *buy* the yarn so you can *buy* the pattern. I, too, worked in a shop. That shop also sold Plymouth Yarn. That shop made no such requirements upon the customer. In fact, if you liked the pattern and not the yarn, she would help you pick out what you did like. I think they call that good business.


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## Jeannine (Mar 2, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> dvikander said:
> 
> 
> > I usually don't reply but this thread got my attention. I have recently started designing patterns and put alot of hours into them to make sure they are correct and easy for people to understand. I think it is great to have some free patterns but I think people are expecting everything to be free.
> ...


Amen to that, StitchDesigner!!!


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## nanasgrandcreations (Jun 28, 2011)

I don't object to paying for a pattern or even buying some yarn from the shop that I am buying the pattern from my objection is being told which yarn to buy totally destroys my creativity and ignores my family allergy I can always check my pattern stash even at the age of 70 I have some of mom's and grandma's pattern looking at a hand full of magazines dated 1915 right now getting ready to donate them to a site that will offer them free try matching that thread or yarn


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

I've never seen the situation where you have to buy both the pattern and the yarn. I have seen (and or awed) yarn that also has a free patter that is not free without buying the yarn--but they will sell the pattern if you don't buy the yarn. I guess some designers of patterns and yarns feel the finished object would only come out properly if their yarn were used. After all, it is a business and they put their time and talent into it. The idea doesn't bother me too much.


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## wilbo (Feb 16, 2011)

Isn't this a good way to lose a customer altogether? I'm just asking. Do you all go back into those shops and purchase something at a later date, or do you just pass them by? It seems a turn off.


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## lavertera (Mar 15, 2011)

That's always been the case here where I live. Even when I have bought yarn and go back to get a pattern to use up some wool, they still want me to buy more!!

I now buy from Bury market and don't buy locally at all, their loss!!

Pam


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

I really think that is stupid crazy wrong...some of us just want patterns for our stash???

Wrong wrong wrong..like the yarn police?

I think maybe we should tell the LYS with that stupid policy..that is why they are going out of business as we will choose to BUY our patterns AND yarn online???

Sorry but this is taking away our freedom of choice.


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## rnstuit (Feb 24, 2011)

yes, there is one here in our home town of Lynden, Washington...if you want the pattern you have to take their crochet class for $30...then you have to buy the yarn on top of that... owner says, that is the way she gets her crochet class full. Well, i fooled her, and found a pattern about indentical and did a little changing to it, and it turned out very good.


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## Pepper's Mom (Aug 9, 2011)

joannav said:


> so Peppersmom where in the world (think Waldo) is this lovely shop I live in the Niagara region and will go anywhere in Southern Ontario for decent and wonderful service .. thanks also checked out Yarn Boutique online and as of today they are moving the Amercio is not suitable for my requirements right now but their product does look amazing thanks again..........


The Yarn Boutique is located on St. John's Road at Dundas Street West. Even Canada 411 records not updated as she relocated in the new year, so several months ago. The phone number remains the same. If you Google "Yarn shops Toronto" you will get wonderful results. Fun places to explore next time you visit Toronto.


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## AllyMu (Jan 31, 2011)

That happened to me, too, at a yarn shop in Marlton, NJ. I thought it was strange, but now I see it happened to others also. Other than that, this shop has the most beautiful yarns and every so often, a 25% off all yarn sale. Their sale last week was great, 25% off all yarn, $3.00 for every book and a $10.00 gift certificate on the next purchase after the sale. How can you beat that? I bought 3 skeins of yarn and 2 books for under $23.00.


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## itzzbarb (May 21, 2011)

I came across that sort of thing at the Houston International Quilt Festival last November. The entire booth was like that.....you had to buy her very pricey yarn just to get a scarf pattern. Yarn for the scarf was something like $160!. I left it all with her.


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

I wonder if there are any yarn shops out there reading these comments and what they have to say about this situation?


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Maybe those LYS owners should just package and sell "kits" instead of yarn and patterns. I'm glad the only LYS in my area doesn't do this!!


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## MsMac (Jan 13, 2011)

You know, you'd think if you were the shop owner and wanted to generate business by having the patterns for sale instead of losing the WHOLE sale (yarn and pattern) if the pattern cost $5 when you purchased the yarn you could just increase the pattern cost to $6 or $7 if someone already had yarn in their stash and only wanted the pattern. That would definitely get me back in the door.


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## ChatChewSew (Aug 9, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> ChatChewSew said:
> 
> 
> > I, too, have visited the shop you mentioned several times over the years but never felt welcomed or well-served as a customer. Local (LYS) can have different meanings to different people, but my personal take on it is it's local if I can drive to it in about an hour because Maine is a huge state geographically. I highly recommend The Yardgoods Center in Waterville, Maine. They are tremendously customer-centered with their sales, ordering of yarns and patterns, classes, groups, impromptu help, etc. I always leave their yarn department with a smile on my face (even when I've spent more than I wanted)! They also offer fabric, sewing machines, stamping, card making, embroidery, lamp shade supplies, needlepoint, and more...It's a unique experience!
> ...


I'm in Hallowell (next door to Augusta). You can find Yardgoods Center on line, though not really shop there on line. They have a 20% off sale twice a year (right after Christmas through Valentine's Day I think, as well as in the summer and it might still be going on...worth it to call...)


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## bowler (Jun 16, 2011)

There is a shop that I frequently visit and they do sell yarn on its own but also have hand knitted projects on show and will only supply the pattern if you buy the yarn. It's not the first time I have copied down the pattern while supposedly studying the pattern. Naughty I know but it really bugs me this kind of thing.


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## janette777 (Jun 11, 2011)

Joannay Hi there. If you meant you would travel for a great shop there is one in St. Thomas (just outside of London, ON) that has one of the largest selections of fibers and prices I have seen. They also carry spinning wheels and supplies and have other goodies: ie, knitting sessions for fun, classes and the nicest sales people in the world. They are called, "The Little Red Mitten" and I believe they have a newsletter on request and an internet site. I just came across them a short while ago and look forward with much enthusiasm to visiting the knitting group once a week. No polictical or economical lines to worry about....all are treated equally.


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## janette777 (Jun 11, 2011)

I have to say this site has kept me busy today following this article in particular. I believe the designer/teacher who said we need to take the investment of time and money of the designer into account has a point. However, unless she designed the yarn as well as the pattern I don't see that it would affect her sales one way or another. Also, there was a time that "Designer" or "teacher" referred to a person who went to school to learn this craft for several years. Now anyone that can copy a pattern, change a few stitches (usually not to the betterment of the the original pattern),color or wording can call themselves a designer. The same with a teacher. It is one thing to know the moves yourself and another to have the abilitiy to use your time and that of your students in the best possible way.

When all is said and done, cheap people will buy cheap; people who want to be responsible purchasers and keep these better stores open, will buy the best they can afford (quite often people are surprised to find there is, at times. little difference between the quality and the price between a good shop and Walmart. $ for $ the best buys are quite often found in LYSs. Honesty and looking out for our own and our neighbor's best interest is still the best policy and will bring in the most loyal customers in the world.


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## lorraine magee (Jan 20, 2011)

Hello everyone, my friend had a yarn shop in philly.She was such a woderfull person,she had people who would knit a sweater wear it ,rip it and go back for inst,s for another sweater.Iasked her why she did it,she said it was to keep a customer.Maybe next time they would see some yarn and buy it ,She never charged for helping with a pattern.She would evenwrite out a pattern for that would fit as she took you measurments.When she closed there were a lot of unhappy knitters.Service isn,t what it used to be, happy knitting


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Just got on today...read the first couple of pages...and had to post my reply on this one. :evil: 

I, for one, would NEVER deal with anyone who bickers over a pattern that is worth a few dollars. :evil: 

Let them deal with the consequences of their actions. :mrgreen: 

If I am treated with respect, I will patronize the shop.

I have seen so many people that just opened their shop that seem to want/demand their profits of the year in the first few months. Sorry...but it doesn't work that way.
For the people that do run their business in such a way....NEVER last for long. Before you know it the store is out of business.
Geezz...wonder why?! :lol: 

I would say goodbye to that shop with the added comment... "see you in the unemployment line!". 

Shoppers vote with their feet....walk to another shop and don't look back.

You all have a great day and enjoy the liberties of shopping (and browsing) as we individually enjoy to do so.


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## RavinRed (Apr 18, 2011)

I say download the app to scan with the camera on your phone and just scan it ......people like that do not deserve our kindness...


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## maur1011 (Jul 25, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


I've heard claims the reason you are required to buy a complete kit is to ensure your finished product will come out as planned. My response to that is, "Well, thanks very much, but hogwash!" There is no reason a comparable (meaning less expensive) yarn cannot be substituted. Here's a customer service tip, make a suitable suggestion for a less expensive yarn choice, and you'll have a happy and repeat customer (who will likely tell her friends on KP).


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## RuthRoss (Mar 24, 2011)

Somehow that seems dishonest to me. The pattern designer put hours into that pattern and the yarn shop probably paid him/her for it. To try to "push" a particular type of yarn might not seem very courteous, but perhaps the knitted piece will look best in that yarn. The LYS doesn't want disgruntled customers if the finished product is different size, appearance from the original. They'll get grief from the customer over that. Perhaps one should ask courteously whether the LYS owner/salesperson can suggest a yarn that will work as well and will not break the bank. But scanning a pattern? What are you going to do, do it undercover? Won't you be humiliated if you are discovered? If I were a LYS owner who discovered you doing that, I'd ask you to leave my store and not come back. Others have spoken about the dishonesty of copying patterns and then selling the products online...


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## NancyB (Aug 1, 2011)

It's EXTORTION ladies. Tell them loudly next time it happens and then maybe they will be shamed into stopping this practice.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

seems like if they had a good product they wouldn't be roping people into buying it


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## DickWorrall (May 9, 2011)

I remember when Annie's Attic only sold kits.
I bought them to get the pattern.
I used the yarn for something else.
I understand that the stores have to make a profit.
But, I think that they should also have less expensive 
yarns on hand. 
Mostly what I do is for charity. I cannot afford
the price of expensive yarn.
People ask me to make them afghans and they don't want
to pay the price for Red Heart yarn.
They would have a heart attach if they had to pay for
1 skein of the more expensive yarns.
I stopped making things for people who want to pay
and only give things away.
I feel like giving them a crochet hook and the pattern
and tell them to make their own. They don't want to pay
for your work. Let alone pay for the yarn.
I have heard that some shops that sell yarn have knitters
working there and they are miffed if you tell them you crochet.


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## flmgsun (Jul 12, 2011)

In addition while on the same vacation I found a second yarn store that not only sold me the pattern but helped me find a yarn that I could afford to make the pattern up. The owner even had the pattern done up and showed me the proper drape on it. It was a cowl and in a really simple but elegant pattern. I wish I was closer to that shop.


LilgirlCA said:


> flmgsun said:
> 
> 
> > I recently ran into this in a yarn store while on vacation. The shawl was made up and on display but you could only get the pattern if you bought that yarn. The shop owner gave the reason that the shawl was her own design so in order to get the pattern..I thought the shawl was beautiful but the yarn was too expensive for me. The pattern stayed there.
> ...


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Personally, I agree with taking a picture of the pattern and the name of the pattern (for only one reason would I do this). I would then take the name of the pattern and see if it is online. Print it off and take it right back to the store and show them. Then ask them why I should buy their pattern when it is a free download.

Any way you spin this one it comes out exactly the same. If you want something, you pay for it there, unless you can find it less expensive somewheres else. And you are free to make this choice. It is called free enterprise. It would be interesting to know how long these stores do stay in business. I do know Mary Maxim has been in business for a long long time. They also have many of "their" patterns for free downloads online through various web sites.


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## Mogurt (Jul 3, 2011)

Dreamweaver said:


> I have never seen this unless it was kitted already and priced accordingly. Then again, I have a very friendly yarn store - and still, I mostly just check out sale items. I have seen kitted crossstitch where you had to buy it all to get pattern.
> 
> If this is going to be the new trend in yarn stores, they may find they are outfoxing themselves. Lots of free patterns available or cute ones without yarn stipulation. Lots of nice yarn at less cost and less gas. The computer doesn't even require that we get dressed!!


me too, Dreamweaver...I've never seen this practice in a store... but I have in a catalog setting.
( almost sounds like a bribe to me)


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## Mogurt (Jul 3, 2011)

LindaH said:


> My LYS has a policy about their classes that is similar. They want you to sign up for their classes, but they require that you buy the yarn for the projects in the store. The other day when I was in the store, one of the ladies asked me why I would not sign up for a class for sweaters because I am obviously in need of help for this blasted Hey Teach sweater that I am trying to do.. I just told her quite honestly that I could either afford to do the class and bring my own yarn from my stash that I have marked for a sweater, or I could buy a couple of hanks from her and skip the class and muddle through it. I told her that I just could not justify paying $45 to $60 for a sock or sweater class and then pay another $25 to $50 for the yarn.
> 
> Then she said.. "Well, obviously that would be the best case scenario.. but we would not turn you away if you bought your own yarn for the class."
> 
> Soooo, that means that maybe when they have the next sock or sweater class, I can get in on the class. I would love to take one, but I absolutely refuse to be made to buy something to get a pattern or learn a new skill. I just will not do it. I just got an e-mail the other day from Craftsy that has a new toe-up sock class online for the low cost of $24.99.. So, I got it and now I can learn MY way with MY yarn.. Works for me!


GOOD for you, LindaH... people shouldn't try to get us over the barrel that way. I'm very proud of you for 'standing up' like that!


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Well, that's our priviledge, to go anywhere to get the yarn. I wouldn't shop in a store that told me No yarn, No pattern. There are way too many sites on the Internet now where one can find both paid and FREE patterns without having to buy yarn, and discounted brand-name yarns are also available. Just look around. I believe these yarn stores are grasping at straws to make yarn sales, trying to compete with the Internet, and are just losing customers instead. They'll wise up eventually. I have.


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## joysjunk (Mar 7, 2011)

both yarn shops in my town require you to buy the yarn from them when you sign up for a class. the classes are usually between $20-$40 and you pick your yarn. but it must be from their shop.


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## MamaBee (Jul 31, 2011)

I to see that but what gets me is they call it a "free pattern".....doesn`t seem free to me when you have to buy the yarn just to get the pattern
Mama BEE


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## nickerina (Jul 29, 2011)

I think that is a terrible trend. I too would not be forced to buy yarn to get a pattern. Maybe that is why there is no yarn shop here. They may have gotten greedy too. That is what it is - greed!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This may very well be a case of the yarn company making the demand. Remember that many pattern copyrights are held by yarn companies. They employ designers to use their yarn to design items to sell their yarn.

There have been enough "nasty" discussions regarding copyright on this forum and I for one will always back the copyright holder.

Yarn shops and yarn manufacturers do not make money if yarn shops hand out free patterns..no do the yarn shops.

It's NOT greed..how do you think designers get paid?

Retailers long ago realized that many people will show up for free samples only and not purchase products. Companies are in business to make money, to pay their employee's, suppliers, etc.. Please, a little consideration.


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## nickerina (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't think they were asking for free patterns. Just did not want to buy the pattern and the yarn, just the pattern. I think most people expect to pay for the pattern unless it is offered for free.


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## pattys76 (Apr 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> This may very well be a case of the yarn company making the demand. Remember that many pattern copyrights are held by yarn companies. They employ designers to use their yarn to design items to sell their yarn.
> 
> There have been enough "nasty" discussions regarding copyright on this forum and I for one will always back the copyright holder.
> 
> ...


I do agree with the copyright holder's right to expect you to purhase the pattern, but in a lot of cases the yarn they want me to buy may be one I can't use, due to allergies, etc. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem buying the pattern, but I want to make my own decisions on the yarn. I might use the suggested yarn, or I might have another I prefer.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I have patterns on the market..and trust me, people will commit copyright infringement! Scanning a pattern, copying it...deffinate "no no's". If you don't like the store policy, take your business somewhere else. A free pattern with a yarn purchase is a "perk", meant to increase yarn sales. Please remember that designers are real people..with bills to pay, families to support, retirements to fund and medical coverage to purchase.

I'm sorry if some of you are offended by this policy. If you want free patterns you can surf the net and use your printer and ink to print out patterns.


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## Cari (Aug 7, 2011)

I think people are talking about the free patterns, not the ones in the books. I understand both sides.


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

I'm not suggesting that the yarn shops hand out the patterns for FREE, only that they let us BUY the patterns without buying the yarn. I don't notice the grocery stores making us buy glasses to drink out of when we buy milk....


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Cari, I think you are missing the point here. We are NOT talking about the stores handing out FREE patterns, we are talking about not being able to PURCHASE a patterns without having to also buy the yarn. I have no problem paying for patterns, but I do want to choose my own yarn for many reasons.


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## Cari (Aug 7, 2011)

Klock I totally agree you. No ones copyright is hurt by this. The designer, to me, would be making more money if patterns were sold separately, if desired also. People wouldn't be tempted to copy patterns, for the most part. That is something I would never consider, personally. I guess it was a long night for me and not reading straight earlier.


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## insanitynz (Mar 14, 2011)

never heard of it not here in new zealand they wouldn't dare


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This is a caveat that the yarn shop and designer have entered into as a joint venture. If you don't like it you are free to take your business elsewhere.

You do NOT know what the agreement between the designer and yarn company or shop is, so how can you say that no one is hurt by breaking the agreement?


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## mamaknits (Mar 18, 2011)

We have 3 yarn shops in my area, and I will not purchase at the 2 who get tight about yarn/patterns/rules. The other one has my business (and I tell all knitters she's the best)for life. She will help anyone with any pattern anytime they ask. THIS is good business. And kind. So many patterns on Ravelry, I would substitute a pattern and buy online if it came down to it.
Forest


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## Cari (Aug 7, 2011)

I believe this is what people are saying. They take their business elsewhere. How does the designer profit for the most part with having to buy your yarn at the same store as the pattern? They end up losing. Not everyone can afford many expensive yarn or have allergies to some fibers in certain yarns. Nuff said.


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

No joke...its like going to Macys to buy a new pair of shoes and sales clerk says...you cannot buy THOSE shoes unless you buy a dress???

Sorry but just not right.

Camilla



NancyB said:


> It's EXTORTION ladies. Tell them loudly next time it happens and then maybe they will be shamed into stopping this practice.


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## Yellowrose (Jul 24, 2011)

A lot of small shops do it because they can only afford to buy limited amounts of the more expensive yarns. In the case of something like Toe-footies yarn, they had a sock club going for something like a year. The patterns where sent but were a non-saleable, copyrighted pattern. So you bought the yarn and were given the pattern to go with it. This also ensured that the small shops had enough of the yarn for that months project for those who were doing the club thing.

It's pretty understandable in my opinion. Small shops cannot afford to stop yarns like the big places can and this way noone is screwed.


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## meran (May 29, 2011)

My LYS had two knitted items on display - one had a handwritten pattern pinned to it which the saleslady wrote out for me, even though I didn't buy the yarn. The 2nd item had the pattern on the back of the ball of wool, which is often the case. I have an issue with having to pay $15-$20 for a pattern book that I will only use one design from.I would happily pay a couple of dollars to have it printed out.


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

Okay wait a minute here, there are so many good posts and I am only up to page 9, I have seen online where they want you to buy yarn to get the pattern that you are looking at, of course in some cases you have to purchase the pattern as well. Now if someone else has posted this sorry for a repeat. But when a pattern is free with a purchase that I understand as well, However, do they specify how much you need to buy. So my suggestion is if you have to spend a lot of money on some yarn that you really don't want to get a pattern you'd like to do in another kind of yarn then why not purchase one skein and make a scarf, hat or gloves out of the good stuff for yourself. After all Knitters and crocheters do a lot of charity work and we do deserve something for ourselves. If you really like a pattern that is the only option I can see. It keeps the lys in business, and doesn't hurt the pocketbook that much. And if you really have someone you would like to give a gift too using the expensive yarn one skein wonders is ideal. Life never promised us a bed of roses and we all have to tough it out. I know that when a designer creates a pattern and uses a specific yarn it is because they feel it is the best yarn for the task at hand. I know that the expense is a lot to ask but think of how beautiful you and others would feel wearing a luxurious item that you made from a pattern you liked with the original yarn.


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Buying only 1 skein will not work, because you have to buy the amount it takes to make the item in the pattern. Good idea though.... I still think we all will do better by boycotting the stores that insist on this behavior and go online for our yarn and pattern businesses. They'll get the message eventually. *Note*, as I understand, this thread is NOT talking about FREE patterns, but a pattern you want to PAY for in the store, as a separate item, and with no yarn to go with it. (Will this thread ever end I wonder... ;-)


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

Iklock you are right it is about a pattern the person what to buy but was told she had to purchase the yarn to get it. Now I was just on stitchdiva and she had a lovely pattern that is $7:00 and the yarn was seperate. However, she was offering it several other ways but $116:00 was one of the prices I don't remember if that was for the kit but there are other prices as well. At least the pattern was offered with out a purchase of yarn.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Go to some of the yarn sites and you will see the same thing. Off the top of my head Patternworks has several patterns that you can only obtain if you purchase the yarn. This is due to the yarn company..they own the rights to the pattern and this is how they have opted to market it. Koyogi for instance, has several patterns that you can only get by purchasing a particular yarn.

It's really not the shops or yarn sites, it's the yarn manufacturer.


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## wickedfun (Jul 2, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Go to some of the yarn sites and you will see the same thing. Off the top of my head Patternworks has several patterns that you can only obtain if you purchase the yarn. This is due to the yarn company..they own the rights to the pattern and this is how they have opted to market it. Koyogi for instance, has several patterns that you can only get by purchasing a particular yarn.
> 
> It's really not the shops or yarn sites, it's the yarn manufacturer.


This is exactly right. It is NOT the choice of the LYS owner in most cases. (Obviously there are exceptions). Please don't boycott your LYS over this issue, we need to support our local entrepreneurs whenever we can.


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## Sharolynn16 (Jul 4, 2011)

What a rought,i think i agree with you all that in the long run the shops will only do themselves out of business, as there are so many free pattern web-sites available now.. :lol: 
Sharolynn16


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This is not the shops..it's the manufacturer! No different than "kits" that come with both the yarn and pattern. Companies that market kits usually do not sell the pattern separately.

They have paid a designer to come up with a garment for their yarn and they are in business to sell yarn.

Putting the blame on shops and boycotting them accomplishes nothing.


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Yes, courier770, to me it accomplishes that I can go and buy a pattern without having to get yarn that I don't want. Plain and Simple. If they don't want to be boycotted, they should be more accommodating to their customers. There are LOTS of patterns that are not coming thru yarn manufacturers, but from private individuals. Those would have no connection to any yarns for sale in the stores.


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## tildy (Jul 8, 2011)

They say pattern is "free" but only if you buy the yarn there...usually something pricey that I can't justify. I seldom goto that shop anymore! My favorite yarn shop in Lafayett, Co would "prefer" you buy your class yarn there but will still welcome you to her classes if not


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## Meditation601 (Feb 23, 2011)

You can find virtually any pattern you want online. 

I hate the gimmick you mention. It would turn me against shopping there. 

Besides.... in addition to buy yarn at other stores, you can also shop online for yarn and often get wonderful online specials!

MaryAnn


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

iklock said:


> Yes, courier770, to me it accomplishes that I can go and buy a pattern without having to get yarn that I don't want. Plain and Simple. If they don't want to be boycotted, they should be more accommodating to their customers. There are LOTS of patterns that are not coming thru yarn manufacturers, but from private individuals. Those would have no connection to any yarns for sale in the stores.


You are right. And my pocket book does not care at all if it is the yarn manufacturer that is to blame. Short and simple, I can and will get my pattern and yarn elsewhere.


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## sjbowers (Mar 9, 2011)

Joann Fabrics offered a class in March/April of 2010 for a baby hat I fell in love with. The class was teaching the skills of using DP's, knitting in the round and how to change colors. I've been doing those skills for years and certainly didn't want to pay $40 just to get the pattern. I have been searching for that pattern since that time and have never seen it. Dummy me just realized after reading all these posts that I should contact Lion Brand Yarn since they sponsored the classes! I wrote a request and will see what they say. Wish me luck! I do love that baby hat!


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

Am I missing something here? Wouldn't the designer get paid if her pattern was sold separately? What has buying the yarn as a package deal got to do with it?
Surely she doesn't get a commission on the yarn sold?


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## trace (Apr 18, 2011)

There is a knitting shop near me that will only sell the pattern if you buy the wool 2 :-D


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## Quilter Girl (Apr 23, 2011)

I have come across this occasionally in yarns shops. I don't mind doing that if the cost of the yarn is not outrageous for something like socks. However, I usually find the pattern is really nice but they use the most expense yarns to make the item. My husband is not working and we have to watch our pennies, so in that case I would not buy. Its a shame because they are a valuable resource when you need a specific yarn.


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## debknitter57 (Mar 18, 2011)

Yes, this is a trend that yarn stores have been doing for a few years. This is the way they make money is to sell the pattern and yarn together. It is something I don't like very much especially if I don't care for the color or type of yarn offered with the pattern. If I come across that type of situation I try my best to find the pattern online through google. There are lots of knitting websites to search for the pattern, hopefully you will find the pattern.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

They would not get my business. To go along with that thinking, So if you wanted to buy yarn they would not sell it to you unless you bought a pattern. These people sound like they are not very experienced in doing business. Hope you fined another LYS to shop at.


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## sholen (Mar 1, 2011)

That's been the case in a number of LYS in WA, OR and MT. I am allergic to wool...so my options are few. One shop was willing to sell a pattern w/o the yarn. My sympathy to you and others. Eventually you will be able to find the pattern, maybe by a similar name.


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## carapetunia (Apr 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> This is a caveat that the yarn shop and designer have entered into as a joint venture. If you don't like it you are free to take your business elsewhere.
> 
> You do NOT know what the agreement between the designer and yarn company or shop is, so how can you say that no one is hurt by breaking the agreement?


I agree with you, "none of us know the agreement between the designer, yarn co. and shop." After all yarn is of no value if there are no purchasers and patterns and samples add greatly add to sales of the yarn. Not everyone can decide without help what to make with a specific yarn.

What happened to me a few years ago might be one of the reasons this type of situation is occuring more frequently. I wanted to purchase a limited edition winter olympics pattern and its appropriate yarn (both made by the same company). At the time both were sold individually as well.

Everyone seemed to have the yarn but were back ordered on the pattern. Suddenly copies of the pattern were showing up on Ebay for inflated prices. People were purchasing the patterns and reselling them and then those who wanted the pattern and the yarn from a yarn shop were unable to buy the pattern.

The pattern company kindly sent me a copy of the pattern and said that in the future they would not be selling the pattern without the yarn. I will be interested to see what will happen in 2014 at the next winter olympics.

Many times the majority have to suffer because of the actions of a few, but I certainly did not blame the yarn shops then for selling the pattern without the yarn because who would have thought reselling was the reason for the sale. In fact I felt sorry for the yarn shops left with yarn they could not sell due to the lack of patterns all because of the selfishness of a few.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

The designer may have been commissioned to craft a garment from the yarn from the yarn company.

There are tons of free patters on the net..pick one and stop picking on yarn shops (which are generally mom and pop type operations) trying to stay alive in this economy.


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Knitters from both sides of the fence are voicing their opinions on the matter. No one is "picking" on any yarn store. I am sure that your pocket book dictates what and where you can shop just like everyone else.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Caveats exist all over the retail industry: Buy one, get one half price...really means "pay full price for one and get the second one for less", Buy (fill in make and model of car) and we'll give you a $500.00 gas card...you still have to buy the 20k - 30k car to get the $500.00 gas card! 

It's a marketing tool, no more, no less. Boycotting your local yarn shop, only can hurt you in the long run...when the shop closes, you'll drive further for yarn (hey maybe that $500.00 gas card is a deal). Hurting a local business (that contributes to your tax base, i.e. schools and other taxing bodies) won't accomplish much.

A few years ago I really fell in love with this neck warmer pattern..but you could only get it by purchasing a certain yarn. I searched for the pattern on line, but only found poor "knock offs". In the end, I purchased the yarn, got the pattern and have made many, as gifts, from OTHER yarn. Going back further, I found a shawl I just loved...but the pattern was only available in a kit..I broke down and bought the kit. Used the yarn to make something else and I've made many shawls from the pattern. I consider both of these to be an "investment".


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Good for you.



courier770 said:


> Caveats exist all over the retail industry: Buy one, get one half price...really means "pay full price for one and get the second one for less", Buy (fill in make and model of car) and we'll give you a $500.00 gas card...you still have to buy the 20k - 30k car to get the $500.00 gas card!
> 
> It's a marketing tool, no more, no less. Boycotting your local yarn shop, only can hurt you in the long run...when the shop closes, you'll drive further for yarn (hey maybe that $500.00 gas card is a deal). Hurting a local business (that contributes to your tax base, i.e. schools and other taxing bodies) won't accomplish much.
> 
> A few years ago I really fell in love with this neck warmer pattern..but you could only get it by purchasing a certain yarn. I searched for the pattern on line, but only found poor "knock offs". In the end, I purchased the yarn, got the pattern and have made many, as gifts, from OTHER yarn. Going back further, I found a shawl I just loved...but the pattern was only available in a kit..I broke down and bought the kit. Used the yarn to make something else and I've made many shawls from the pattern. I consider both of these to be an "investment".


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## Cheryl_K (May 23, 2011)

I'm with you, MamaKing. That is "different", but I have seen it. I agree with all of the other responses so far. How can someone expect a customer to purchase $20 a skein yarn as well as a pattern? I don't know about anyone else, but I rarely have an extra $100 + laying around to drop on my needlework habit! Sounds like a left-handed encouragement to keep on knitting/crocheting to get the experience I need to design my own patterns!


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## MamaBee (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh good grief!!


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## maladydawn (Aug 11, 2011)

i have found a couple of sellers who do this, although one of them did offer the pattern after a little chat but the price was ludicrous! She wanted £12.50 so that was a NO! Disappointed but not ripped off!


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

I respectfully disagree with some in here that feel paring up pattern with yarn...is ok or a good thing???
Whatever the pattern designer and the LYS owner have agreed upon ..the majority or the public could care less..
Telling US to "if we don't like it leave or shop somewhere else"..and we are doing just that by the thousands and all it takes to find the same yarn for less is the click of a mouse button.....not that we need to be told to make a good decision..geez..
I nor my friends have the funds to purchase the pricy yarn...Yes I do buy kits occasionally IF I really want that pattern, if they are on sale..and IF I can use the yarn..
but it is ALWAYS MY choice...
The Mom and Pop LYS are also consumers...they have to understand how the public shops and feels...
I made an example earlier about going to Macy's and buying "the" perfect pair of shoes...then I go check out..and am told ...OH you cannot possibly buy those shoes UNLESS you buy a coordinating dress...REASON..we made an agreement with shoe manufacturer and dress manufactures to sell them like that???????...Think about it...sounds REALLY dumb IMHO.
I will ALWAYS support Mom and Pop type shops first but I am not stupid either...I do NOT want my CHOICE taken away from me and ONE choice is to leave...
This issue is really about taking OUR choices away.

Sorry if this offends anyone..that is NOT my attention..sometimes as friends we can just agree to disagree...

Respectfully,

Camilla


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## Mogurt (Jul 3, 2011)

CamillaInTheDesert said:


> I respectfully disagree with some in here that feel paring up pattern with yarn...is ok or a good thing???
> Whatever the pattern designer and the LYS owner have agreed upon ..the majority or the public could care less..
> Telling US to "if we don't like it leave or shop somewhere else"..and we are doing just that by the thousands and all it takes to find the same yarn for less is the click of a mouse button.....not that we need to be told to make a good decision..geez..
> I nor my friends have the funds to purchase the pricy yarn...Yes I do buy kits occasionally IF I really want that pattern, if they are on sale..and IF I can use the yarn..
> ...


Camilla, I fully 'get' your intent & I fully applaud your putting it out there. Thankfully my lys does not do this . BUT, I have been told that if I buy the yarn, the pattern is free. Now that only seems fair to me.

What do you think of that?

thanks for putting this out here... I do feel the same. I can easily buy-4-less via the enternet... but , I to, like to support my local shops. If they are being greedy... I simply leave... my choice. :thumbup:


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

Exactly Mogurt...it is all about choice...we live in a very stressed economy today..worse than ever...even those that have money to burn are being frugal ...Just the way it is today...
As I stated...I LOVE and support my LYS FIRST..but want to always have my choices...I would buy the yarn with a free pattern BUT only if I can afford the yarn..otherwise it is useless to me...I have had to learn to NOT overextend myself financially..I keep a fairly modest stash..some may not agree lol..
I do not expect all to agree with me..that was just my HO and I must stick to it..otherwise financially strap us further.

Thank you for your support again Mogurt.

Camilla



Mogurt said:


> CamillaInTheDesert said:
> 
> 
> > I respectfully disagree with some in here that feel paring up pattern with yarn...is ok or a good thing???
> ...


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## dvikander (Aug 4, 2011)

I just wanted to respond to the people that are saying to boycott their LYS. How much support do you get from the online stores when you are knitting and can not figure out something with the pattern. I help out on my LYS and there are days where I have 6 or more people coming into ask for help. We have a knit group and have 26 or more people knitting. We all know we can go to the shop and sit and knit for a little while. I also teach classes and have never had anyone complain about buying their yarn from the shop. sometimes they do not buy enough to complete the project until they are sure they are going to like the new techique or project. I think we need to think about what all our LYS have to offer besides buying yarn and patterns. My LYS has done a great job of mixing expensive and inexpensive yarns. I guess I am just different but I would not feel comfortable knitting with a yarn from a different source at the LYS either for a class or knit night. Better get back to knitting


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

I completely agree with you ...I for one never said boycott LYS also said I love my LYS...this is not about just yarn..it is about pairing a pattern with pricey yarn...and as I said it is about choice ..individually..
I would be shocked seeing someone bringing in a non LYS yarn
for help.
Thanks for your input too...I respect and agree with what you are saying.



dvikander said:


> I just wanted to respond to the people that are saying to boycott their LYS. How much support do you get from the online stores when you are knitting and can not figure out something with the pattern. I help out on my LYS and there are days where I have 6 or more people coming into ask for help. We have a knit group and have 26 or more people knitting. We all know we can go to the shop and sit and knit for a little while. I also teach classes and have never had anyone complain about buying their yarn from the shop. sometimes they do not buy enough to complete the project until they are sure they are going to like the new techique or project. I think we need to think about what all our LYS have to offer besides buying yarn and patterns. My LYS has done a great job of mixing expensive and inexpensive yarns. I guess I am just different but I would not feel comfortable knitting with a yarn from a different source at the LYS either for a class or knit night. Better get back to knitting


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## ann bar (Jul 11, 2011)

My LYS is most welcoming. They are pricey but with a little help I was able to find something within my budget. I must have spent an hour there Wednesday looking and lusting after all the lovely colors and textures of yarn. If I run into a problem with a pattern I can come in for a quick fix. If I want to learn something new or need a lot of help they have class twice a week. There is a fee but it is quite nominal...


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## RikkiLou (Jul 15, 2011)

MamaKing said:


> Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


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## RikkiLou (Jul 15, 2011)

RikkiLou said:


> MamaKing said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different".


It would seem to me that they are cutting off their noses to spite their face--so, instead of losing JUST the sale of the yarn they are losing the sale of the pattern , too! Not too high on the IQ test--they would be better off to agree to the sale of the pattern and offer an interchangeable yarn, in a lower price range. It used to be that if you offered to pay for the pattern (or anything else) "in the coin of the realm" and it were refused, they had to give it to you! Or , if you offered to pay a debt "in the coin of the realm" even if it were all pennies, and the money were refused, then the debt was considered paid. Of course, you would have to have a witness and know exactly which statute to cite. its not very good merchandise management to put all your inventory investment in things that are out of the economic range of most of your customers, or so thinks I. RikkiLou


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Still posters are blaming the shop and not realizing this is most likely a yarn company's requirement. 

As for paying $20.00 a skein...I pay more than that for quality sock yarn, that's hardly an "outrageous" price.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Still posters are blaming the shop and not realizing this is most likely a yarn company's requirement.
> 
> As for paying $20.00 a skein...I pay more than that for quality sock yarn, that's hardly an "outrageous" price.


If I were the shop owner and HAD to abide by their rules to purchase yarn for MY shop....I would say bye,bye. Just me.

As for what YOU pay is wonderful for YOU.
Not all of us can afford that.
I for one, am on a FIXED (BELOW POVERTY LEVEL) income...
what I purchase is mostly for items for charity...

With no disrespect here... we are only discussing ......


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Still posters are blaming the shop and not realizing this is most likely a yarn company's requirement.
> 
> As for paying $20.00 a skein...I pay more than that for quality sock yarn, that's hardly an "outrageous" price.


What you fail to realize even after numerous posts stating so, is that people cant afford to be ripped off, no matter who is to blame. Sensible shopping means you also need to follow your budget and if your budget allows you to spend $20+ for your sock yarn, then so be it. Also not every yarn company who markets their yarn, demands that you buy their yarn in order to get the pattern. So what makes these $$$ for those companies? 99% of the yarn companies cant be wrong. Is it perhaps that your commission on your patterns is dependant on the yarn being bought before your patterns get out there? Just trying to understand why you cant see that knitters dont like to be blackmailed into purchasing yarn so they can get the pattern. And since it is the shop selling the yarn, it IS their fault.

The original post asked if anyone had this experience as well as the poster did. "Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different"."


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

It's really not all that unusual. Just about every yarn shop I have ever been in has a "kit" section or promotion similar to this. This comes from the yarn company, and if the shop has a good relationship with that company they will comply.

No one is blackmailing anyone, it's simply a package deal. Do all yarn companies do this..no. Though a great many more than 1% do.

With the plethora of free patterns available, why is this even an issue?


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

"Has anyone ever been to a yarn shop that won't sell you the pattern unless you buy the yarn? There is a yarn shop between Yarmouth and Freeport, Me on Rt 1 called Grace Robinson that does that... I thought that was so "different"."

That is the first post of this topic and why there are so many knitters who are responding.


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Maybe we opened a can of worms here. There are apparently knitters with *unlimited* funds who don't mind paying whatever it takes for the yarn to get the coveted pattern. Well, good for them, but please show a little empathy for the most of here us who cannot do that. We just go elsewhere for our patterns and yarns to fit our budgets. I think this topic is nearly exhausted, most of the last posts are just bickering back and fourth between two clearly different opinions. (Can't wait to see the next posts....)


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## ann bar (Jul 11, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## iklock (May 31, 2011)

Thank you! ;-)


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WISECOOKIE50 (Jan 22, 2011)

I had this happen for the 1st time at fiber festival in June. I had a booth there & vendors have always been nice. After I stopped & looked at her projects her same as said move on! She let me know that she only gave out her pattern with her yarn. The yarn she was using can be got on ebay much cheaper too! Oh well I saved my money & I will find that pattern some day!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

My patterns are not sold as a package deal with yarn. They are "out there". Everyone has to live within their particular budget, so the option is to find patterns that don't require a yarn purchase. Pretty simple if you ask me.


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## joysjunk (Mar 7, 2011)

I agree with you, dvikander. you can buy from the internet but where do you go when you need help? we have had local businesses go out of business because people buy online to save a dollar or 2 but want help from local business without paying for it. another great thing my LYS does is if i am not sure how much yarn i will need for a project they will hold a skein or 2 for me that later i might not even need. they are great! I support them.


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## nagalot (Mar 9, 2011)

Just as long as they are not selling or giving away counterfeit single copies of published patterns. That's not legal or fair to the designer. Of course customers should be allowed to purchase published copywrited pattern books without buying the yarn those books support! Otherwise why would the yarn companies publish the books in the first place? They hope you will buy their yarn, but once they put that book before the public, no one can control how it's sold. If the pattern in question is one designed by the local shop for a specific yarn, then, of course they can dictate how they sell it.


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## poodlepad (Feb 1, 2011)

I agree you should not be pushed into something just so they are not left holding yarn they can't sell. Hobby Lobby near where I live is a little backward. They will give you the pattern, but they don't carry the yarn you need to make it.


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## eveningstar (May 8, 2011)

My LYS does not have prices posted. If you want to know how much anything costs, you have to pry one of the sales women from the group around the table, and she'll look it up in the book near the cash register. I shop Joann's, Michaels and on-line.


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## joysjunk (Mar 7, 2011)

eveningstar said:


> My LYS does not have prices posted. If you want to know how much anything costs, you have to pry one of the sales women from the group around the table, and she'll look it up in the book near the cash register. I shop Joann's, Michaels and on-line.


this seems like a lot of unnecessary work for the employees!

1


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## Mai (Jan 30, 2011)

I ran into that problem only once,but sorry for the yarn shop,word got out and soon lost customers. I don't understand what different it makes.


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

yes..I have bought yarn to get a pattern...and I was very happy to do so..there was a choice of yarn and prices that would make the pattern...and the pattern was STUNNING....a very creative designer had created the pattern..and I was happy to support her...she delivered a unique product...one I will happily use for years...


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## knitterbee (Jul 21, 2011)

The comment is not, they want free patterns, but that they would like to be able to buy the pattern without having to buy the yarn.


courier770 said:


> I have patterns on the market..and trust me, people will commit copyright infringement! Scanning a pattern, copying it...deffinate "no no's". If you don't like the store policy, take your business somewhere else. A free pattern with a yarn purchase is a "perk", meant to increase yarn sales. Please remember that designers are real people..with bills to pay, families to support, retirements to fund and medical coverage to purchase.
> 
> I'm sorry if some of you are offended by this policy. If you want free patterns you can surf the net and use your printer and ink to print out patterns.


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## organdywings (May 30, 2011)

I have a problem with LYS that do not understand that with the internet, you don't really need them. Service is really all they have to sell. If they refuse to sell the pattern without the yarn, you generally will walk away and leave with bad feelings. You may not be back at all. I personally would scour the net for a similar pattern There are thousands of patterns out there that are free or available at very low cost. Shop owners don't seem to realize that you can get anything they sell in their shop elsewhere and the only thing you can't get is that one on one, ftriendly, personal service. That will make you come back every time.. even though it might be a more expensive choice.


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

i believe we DO NEED yarn shops..local or otherwise..and i know for a fact that no matter how long you search for a pattern online some are only available at a yarn shop with a creative designer/owner and that when you find such a place and the designer's patterns they will be very special..unique..and worth the yarn purchase...we MUST support our most creative people and i always feel the pattern and yarn combination are a BARGAIN to have a very special knitting experience and garment...
julie


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## shlbycindy (Aug 24, 2011)

Maybe they should have more reasonable prices for their yarn. I am more than willing to buy a pattern but NOT if I'm going to pay 2-3 times more than the going rate for the yarn that goes with it.


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## tesshoffman (Jan 21, 2011)

Okay, here's an oddity, and I wouldn't mind getting some more perspectives on it. I bought two skeins/hanks of Mango Moon at a lovely yarn shop in Findlay Lake, NY (sadly, now closed - sniff.) (In case you haven't heard of this yarn, it is made of silk fibers derived when women in Nepal shred saris and re-spin the silk. Because Mango Moon is randomly colored, one buys hanks in the color family she prefers, but may only find one or two in that spectrum at a time.) Some months later, I had occasion to visit City Knits, another gorgeous shop, this one in the Fisher Bldg. in Detroit. She had Mango Moon, and I again bought "my" colors. She offered to wind it for me, and as she did, I mentioned the skeins I had bought in NY. Oh, she said, if you bring it in, I'll be glad to wind it for you too. Okay, I don't get into the city during shop hours very often, so haven't taken her up on it. Meanwhile, a new yarn shop opened up in a nearby town, and I went in. Now, the stock was rather limited, but I can sympathize - filling shelves with yarn is extremely costly. Only the owner was in the shop (no other customers either.) I made sure to pick out some yarn to buy (never have had the heart to disappoint a shop owner), and as she rang it up, I mentioned the Mango Moon and the City Knits lady's offer. "Oh," this owner said, "I would never wind yarn that the person hadn't bought in my shop." Perhaps you will understand that I felt cheap, as though I had asked for something free - when in fact I had done no such thing. I paid for her (over-priced) yarn, purchased out of misplaced compassion/guilt, and left. I never went back. I can't help thinking that, were I the shop owner, I would understand that feeling welcome brings customers back. I realize that she needed to make a living and keep her business profitable, but her response was, I felt, chiding, as though I had tried to cheat her, or suggest something underhanded. I have never taken advantage of the City Knits offer, but have recommended, and do still recommend, that lovely shop to anyone who was interested in beautiful yarn. Nor have I ever gone back into that nearby shop, which has since closed. I feel as though there is a sisterhood in fiber arts which creates webs of generosity and reciprocity. This isn't the same issue as whether a shop owner should require us to buy yarn, but in a way it is even more-so - because anyone who knits or crochets knows full well that all one has to do is get a woman in the door, and she is almost guaranteed to make a sale - we're addicts! If a shop feels friendly and supportive, we come back. If we are made to feel like beggars - or thieves - we are less likely to. I suspect the proprietor of that shop was anxious for her future, and thereby may have sealed her fate by exhibiting her anxiety as hostility. Or else I'm crazy and you will put me straight. But nothing could induce me to go back there.

Thoughts?


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## sholen (Mar 1, 2011)

Couldn't agree with you more. We know that one "secret to success" is "Location, Location, Location"...but in today's economy, it's Service, Service, Service...with a good attitude thrown in.


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

as i said earlier..yes, i have bought yarn to get a pattern....it was a pattern designed by the yarn shop owner herself and she was selling it with yarn to make a fair profit for her work and her shop...there was a WIDE variety of prices of yarn required to get this pattern...and the owner was one of the most down to earth and gracious people I have ever met..SHE pointed out the price ranges and yarns for the pattern, SHE respected my budget..SHE made knitting suggestions i would never have thought of...SHE gave me excellent SERVICE and a very unique pattern and looking forward to a knitting experience I know i'll enjoy....I have bought more from her shop since that visit...and each experience has been as good as the first one...Knitting shops do not make much profit on patterns alone...they have to sell yarn...now, there are apparently alot of variation in shops..and if i didn't feel welcome or well served i would not go back..i live in a city with several knit shops...i shop at ONE..the others appeal to others..that's fine..but i have found my yarn "home"...
julie


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## sholen (Mar 1, 2011)

My problem with "pattern with yarn purchase" is that I am allergic/sensitive to ANY wool in a yarn...or otherwise. Some stores (the ones I go back to) are willing to sell the pattern. Although I don't usually pay for a single pattern, this has worked for me and the only nice LYS in the area.


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