# My latest pet peeve



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

I do not understand why designers, who want us to purchase their patterns, often do not provide a decent photo so we can see if it is a project we would like to knit or crochet. Before I spend money on a pattern I want to be able to at least see what the item looks like and what the stitch pattern is. I am so tired of trying to look at tiny photos that barely show details. This is especially true for items like cowls that when photographed being worn by a model are scrunched or twisted around her neck. 

If you want me to buy your design, please show it to me! 
Thanks for letting me vent, lol!!


----------



## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

vjh1530 said:


> I do not understand why designers, who want us to purchase their patterns, often do not provide a decent photo so we can see if it is a project we would like to knit or crochet. Before I spend money on a pattern I want to be able to at least see what the item looks like and what the stitch pattern is. I am so tired of trying to look at tiny photos that barely show details. This is especially true for items like cowls that when photographed being worn by a model are scrunched or twisted around her neck.
> 
> If you want me to buy your design, please show it to me!
> Thanks for letting me vent, lol!!


Feel better now? I know exactly what you mean, so I NEVER buy patterns, as there are so many lovely FREE ones out there, and also because it is not easy for me to send money overseas for the paid patterns.


----------



## Jalsh (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm with you! I want to see the entire garment. Who knows what they're trying to hide.


----------



## ADW55 (Mar 31, 2014)

Both front and back, if it's a jacket or sweater.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


And you can also download the pattern into your library on Ravelry, saves cluttering your hard drive or bookshelves with patterns you may only use once.


----------



## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


Yes - just what I was going to say! That was the first thing that popped into my head when I read vjh1530's post.


----------



## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I know how you feel,it cheeses me off too.


----------



## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

Just a thought. If a great close up picture is given, the pattern will be copied instead of bought. I understand the frustration trying to decide if you want to buy the pattern when you cannot see it.


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

jinx said:


> Just a thought. If a great close up picture is given, the pattern will be copied instead of bought. I understand the frustration trying to decide if you want to buy the pattern when you cannot see it.


It unfortunately is not a thought but an actual fact. Done all the time in the fashion industry by nefarious sorts like myself that were not only taught that technique but have a savant way of storing that information for later use. If you are paying close attention to Pinterest and other such sites you will see all of them copying each other and it is not new by any means (and thus all the wonky names for stitch patterns and poor translations and key phrases used like they know what they mean). Prior to modern department stores with their later display windows one would need to make an appointment to see what the designer had to offer and that many times was illustrations for the less wealthy clients. Why illustration was a business in and of itself.

One also needs to consider the costs involved to create a photo since in my day you got only a illustration like on clothing patterns at the time that may or may not give you a back image let alone exact details. Model costs + stylists + hair & make up + location scout + photographer and their entourage + lay out and print costs etc. etc. etc. and people having fits they need to pay $5 for a pattern. That is why the tours and tutorials and all the stuff that comes with the publicity is where they make up in overhead costs.


----------



## annielaur (Feb 18, 2013)

If a pattern is not on revelry where i can look at multiple versions in various poses, I don't buy it. I agree with you 100% - why would I spend money when i'm not sure i even like the stitches? Very valid pet peeve!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


I totally agree with you. Personally, I have had it go both ways on Ravelry - I didn't care for the pattern from the photos that the designer posted, but in a different color or weight yarn that someone else posted I loved it. The opposite as well - loved the designer photo but all the "regular" photos were not to my liking, which leads me to think the pattern will only work if knitted with the exact yarn and tension, so too fussy for me. And those comments are worth their weight in gold!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And you can also download the pattern into your library on Ravelry, saves cluttering your hard drive or bookshelves with patterns you may only use once.


And if your computer crashes, you still have all your patterns. Ravelry is the best thing that has happened to knitting IMHO. The ability to network with knitters around the world is so valuable!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

kiwiannie said:


> I know how you feel,it cheeses me off too.


I was just on a fancy, extensive yarn and pattern company website looking at their patterns and yarns. The photos for both were terrible! When you clicked on the "enlarge photo" button, the photo that came up was smaller!! Same with the patterns. I would have had to enlarge the entire screen to get any detail, providing it didn't blur the photos instead.

The site had lots of pretty fluff writing and frou-frou drawings and flowers and such, but the meat and potatoes - the products - were barely visible in the photos and the written descriptions were sparse. I guess they thought you'd fall in love with their marketing and buy the stuff sight unseen?


----------



## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

This is such an interesting topic. There are some folks on here who complain about all the photos in a pattern. It is nice to know there are others here like me who like to see close ups in order to decide if I want the pattern or not.


----------



## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

run4fittness said:


> This is such an interesting topic. There are some folks on here who complain about all the photos in a pattern. It is nice to know there are others here like me who like to see close ups in order to decide if I want the pattern or not.


Overload of high resolution photos in a downloadable pattern that doesn't give you the option of a smaller download (a lot of the complaints stem from using up all the data in a month's plan in a single download) is not the same as seeing a picture or pictures on my screen before making a decision about whether I want a pattern. I like photos and lots of them but please don't force me to download it all when I just want the pattern. I want both!


----------



## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

disgo said:


> It unfortunately is not a thought but an actual fact. Done all the time in the fashion industry by nefarious sorts like myself that were not only taught that technique but have a savant way of storing that information for later use. If you are paying close attention to Pinterest and other such sites you will see all of them copying each other and it is not new by any means (and thus all the wonky names for stitch patterns and poor translations and key phrases used like they know what they mean). Prior to modern department stores with their later display windows one would need to make an appointment to see what the designer had to offer and that many times was illustrations for the less wealthy clients. Why illustration was a business in and of itself.
> 
> One also needs to consider the costs involved to create a photo since in my day you got only a illustration like on clothing patterns at the time that may or may not give you a back image let alone exact details. Model costs + stylists + hair & make up + location scout + photographer and their entourage + lay out and print costs etc. etc. etc. and people having fits they need to pay $5 for a pattern. That is why the tours and tutorials and all the stuff that comes with the publicity is where they make up in overhead costs.


I look at patterns for ideas and sometimes I see something and think, they want me to pay for a pattern to make that? I don't need a pattern. The catch 22 is that I won't consider spending on a pattern I can't see clearly and chances are I won't spend on it if I can. I like the way sewing patterns give a drawing of the basic lines in the pattern on the envelope. I guess they still do, I've not bought patterns in a long time.


----------



## bigtimeyarnie (Aug 26, 2012)

I'm SO with you!! Those tiny pics don't show any detail at all. AND I want you to tell me up front if it's a chart or a written pattern.


----------



## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

bigtimeyarnie said:


> I'm SO with you!! Those tiny pics don't show any detail at all. AND I want you to tell me up front if it's a chart or a written pattern.


We expect the sun, moon, and stars I guess. More and more I want to know: is there a chart? Please give me a chart. I might not actually use it but it's a good reference and I am learning to use and be comfortable with charts. There are fewer translation problems with charts I think.


----------



## DesertPurl (Feb 28, 2015)

I so agree!! In addition, it makes me nuts when the designer shows their work in a really dark yarn. There's no hope of seeing any detail. If others have chosen lighter colors on Ravelry, that's really helpful but when they note that they have made mods, I still feel like I don't know what the pattern will really have in store. That's a problem for folks like me who are relearning skills from decades ago.


----------



## Downsouth Knitter (Mar 31, 2014)

I so agree with others who have mentioned the projects page on Ravelry! I like to see what others have done with the pattern, the colors, and especially what they have to say about the directions. A month or so ago I was trying to do a sock pattern from Ravelry and neglected to read the comments before starting. Never again! After 4 attempts where I couldn't get the pattern to match up, I DID read the comments. There were numerous comments about mistakes and one had written the correct pattern out for everyone. Lesson learned. The internet is so wonderful for knitters!


----------



## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

disgo said:


> It unfortunately is not a thought but an actual fact. Done all the time in the fashion industry by nefarious sorts like myself that were not only taught that technique but have a savant way of storing that information for later use. If you are paying close attention to Pinterest and other such sites you will see all of them copying each other and it is not new by any means (and thus all the wonky names for stitch patterns and poor translations and key phrases used like they know what they mean). Prior to modern department stores with their later display windows one would need to make an appointment to see what the designer had to offer and that many times was illustrations for the less wealthy clients. Why illustration was a business in and of itself.
> 
> One also needs to consider the costs involved to create a photo since in my day you got only a illustration like on clothing patterns at the time that may or may not give you a back image let alone exact details. Model costs + stylists + hair & make up + location scout + photographer and their entourage + lay out and print costs etc. etc. etc. and people having fits they need to pay $5 for a pattern. That is why the tours and tutorials and all the stuff that comes with the publicity is where they make up in overhead costs.


Thank goodness "your day" is long gone. It's a new day now with modern technology. It doesn't have to be a huge over the top event or cost a lot to take decent photos. Gone are the days when long laborious hours were spent in a dark room. It's the age of instant gratification and digital imaging has made everyone a photographer. Annie Liebovitz admitted she uses her smart phone to take photos and even stated that she thinks some of her best work was taken with a cell phone. Designers need only to use common sense and understand who their customer is - it costs nothing, but is worth more than just about anything else.

The issue is not just the quality of the photo - it's much more basic. Show us the beef!

In addition to the myriad ways of styling and wearing a shawl, cowl, scarf, sweater, etc. I want to see it in all it's glory. Why does it have to be so secretive? Besides, chances are the "original" design that is being kept hidden (if that is even the purpose of taking a bad photo) isn't all that original to begin with.

I think the majority of people who view pattern photos are not trying to figure out how they can get away with not having to fork over a couple of bucks to buy the pattern, but rather whether it's a project they really want to pursue. I tend to look at a pattern and think about ways I can individualize it to my own style and liking, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to rip it off. Often the simplicity of pattern is what catches my eye, but if I can't see the details, I'm not going to buy it. I certainly don't mind paying for the concept, but not when I don't know what I'm spending my money on up front.

Show me the full shawl, the untwisted cowl and elongated scarf. The majority of knitters/crocheters will respect the design and designers will in turn have a lot more sales, which also relates to exposure ...the ultimate prize.


----------



## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


This makes perfect sense, unless the pattern is brand new and no projects are posted. Unless it's a designer I'm familiar with or the photos are actually a great representation of the design and pattern, I will generally just save it to my favorites so later on down the road I can pull it up again and see if there are any projects posted with notes that help me decide if it's really a project that is worth my time and energy.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> This makes perfect sense, unless the pattern is brand new and no projects are posted. Unless it's a designer I'm familiar with or the photos are actually a great representation of the design and pattern, I will generally just save it to my favorites so later on down the road I can pull it up again and see if there are any projects posted with notes that help me decide if it's really a project that is worth my time and energy.


Unless I feel like being one of the guinea pigs (unpaid pattern testers), I never work on a brand-new just-posted-on-Ravelry pattern either. If it really intrigues me, I'll come back later and see how others have fared with it.

My favourite (in the most negative) example of misleading photography is Lion Brand's Slip Stitch Sampler Throw: http://www.lionbrand.com/patterns/L10347.html?noImages=;ss= . If you scroll way, _way_ down, you now see the un-posed afghan laid out flat on an office floor, but when a bunch of KPers began a KAL on it, that unflattering photo was not yet added to the Lion Brand page. Our insistence to see it, is what eventually got them to add it. You can read the whole sorry story of our travails and problem-solving, and pulling corrections ever-so-slowly out of Lion Brand at: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-55828-1.html

My own re-telling of my headaches with my single square is at: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/slip-stitch-sampler-throw . I haven't yet recovered enough from it to attempt a full-sized version. Who knows? Lion Brand may yet come up with additional 'corrections'!


----------



## lynnlassiter (Jun 30, 2011)

Not a vent! I think most of us feel the same way!


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Normally the occasional pattern I buy now is becuase I see it here and decide it is worth buying.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you BettyIrene.



bettyirene said:


> Feel better now? I know exactly what you mean, so I NEVER buy patterns, as there are so many lovely FREE ones out there, and also because it is not easy for me to send money overseas for the paid patterns.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

vjh1530 said:


> And if your computer crashes, you still have all your patterns. Ravelry is the best thing that has happened to knitting IMHO. The ability to network with knitters around the world is so valuable!


Like KP. Looking back Ravelry and KP have made a huge difference in my skill level...and miles to go before I sleep...


----------



## johannecw (Oct 25, 2011)

And I like to know what weight yarn and the size of needles the pattern is for before buying it!


----------



## snowmannut (Apr 17, 2014)

try emailing the designer


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

johannecw said:


> And I like to know what weight yarn and the size of needles the pattern is for before buying it!


Another way Ravelry is good.


----------



## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

DesertPurl said:


> I so agree!! In addition, it makes me nuts when the designer shows their work in a really dark yarn. There's no hope of seeing any detail. If others have chosen lighter colors on Ravelry, that's really helpful but when they note that they have made mods, I still feel like I don't know what the pattern will really have in store. That's a problem for folks like me who are relearning skills from decades ago.


Even with a light colour you might _still_ not be able to see the pattern in all it's glory. I was looking at this pattern yesterday and as you can see the actual pattern photo isn't very informative. The lace pattern seems to disappear midway down into goodness knows what. It's actually a band of stocking stitch and then the lace pattern is resumed. I can't see that!
Fortunately there are plenty projects and I can see it clearly. Still not sure if I'll do it though :lol:
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/gossamer


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


This is one of the things I love about Ravelry. 
Knitty.com is another favorite go-to site.


----------



## sbeth53 (Mar 29, 2011)

I agree...also you can see the finished item in a variety of sizes not just extra small


Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Unless I feel like being one of the guinea pigs (unpaid pattern testers), I never work on a brand-new just-posted-on-Ravelry pattern either. If it really intrigues me, I'll come back later and see how others have fared with it.
> 
> My favourite (in the most negative) example of misleading photography is Lion Brand's Slip Stitch Sampler Throw: http://www.lionbrand.com/patterns/L10347.html?noImages=;ss= . If you scroll way, _way_ down, you now see the un-posed afghan laid out flat on an office floor, but when a bunch of KPers began a KAL on it, that unflattering photo was not yet added to the Lion Brand page. Our insistence to see it, is what eventually got them to add it. You can read the whole sorry story of our travails and problem-solving, and pulling corrections ever-so-slowly out of Lion Brand at: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-55828-1.html
> 
> My own re-telling of my headaches with my single square is at: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/slip-stitch-sampler-throw . I haven't yet recovered enough from it to attempt a full-sized version. Who knows? Lion Brand may yet come up with additional 'corrections'!


 It really is a beautiful afghan, and a challenge for intermediate and experienced knitters. Imagine the frustration for new knitters.

I had a problem with this Lion Brand pattern,

Lion Brand® Homespun® Pattern #: 40464-K
http://www.lionbrand.com/patterns/khs-cape.html?noImages=

The original pattern, with no corrections, was just a giant rectangle, and originally published in Vogue Knitting.


----------



## Ann745 (Oct 29, 2012)

ADW55 said:


> Both front and back, if it's a jacket or sweater.


Yes, I want to see the back too and something that reflects its size if not on a model.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

snowmannut said:


> try emailing the designer


Sometimes that works.

I had a problem with a Berocco pattern and sent an email to the company.Instead of answering my question,
" How is the collar attached to the sweater?", 
I got a 'cut and paste' reply of the directions without an answer to my question, " Is it grafted, whip stitch, bind off together,how is this attached?"


----------



## WendyMargaret (Sep 10, 2014)

I imagine photos are expensive to publish. Even in a purchased book of patterns the detailed photo you want is often missing. Iit never occurred to me that a clever designer could steal a pattern by seeing a detailed photo. Interesting.


----------



## Ferol Pat (Jun 18, 2013)

agreed


----------



## baglady1104 (Apr 10, 2011)

I agree with everything you've all said. Having just purchased and downloaded a pattern, which is rare for me, too, as I usually find there are plenty of free patterns available, I would like to share the following from WEBS. Of course, I had to go to their blog to see this, but there is a link to it on the pattern page:
http://blog.yarn.com/valley-yarns-show-and-tell-450-purlless-pullover/

It would be nice if this were the rule rather than the exception for online pattern shopping. I have looked over the pattern and it looks pretty straightforward. (Hope the link works.)


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Have you ever noticed how often models' long hair obscures neckline details?That always really annoys me!


----------



## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Have you ever noticed how often models' long hair obscures neckline details?That always really annoys me!


That is the thing that really annoys me.


----------



## whitetail (Feb 19, 2011)

Understand, I have only purchased a pattern on-line once, the main reason is, I like to look a pattern over first. Want to know what it involves first.


----------



## elliekluge (Feb 11, 2015)

Amen!


----------



## Kathie (Mar 29, 2011)

DesertPurl said:
 

> I so agree!! In addition, it makes me nuts when the designer shows their work in a really dark yarn. There's no hope of seeing any detail. If others have chosen lighter colors on Ravelry, that's really helpful but when they note that they have made mods, I still feel like I don't know what the pattern will really have in store. That's a problem for folks like me who are relearning skills from decades ago.


When I saw this topic discussed, this is the comment I was looking for. I don't know why the designers go through all the trouble involved in a photo shoot then have their item made up in dark yarn that you can't see the details anyway. It makes me crazy. I don't begrudge them their prices but want to see what I'm buying before I pay their price.


----------



## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

One of the reasons I DON'T BUY patterns. 
The models are pretty women. The poses are fine. The scenery is just fine. 
But what is being offered for sale is the PATTERN NOT the MODEL. 
I could knit for the rest of my life and I still wouldn't be tall, blonde, blue-eyed, and a perfect size 8! :thumbdown: 
ZO...I either use a freebie or make one up for myself.
The exception is when I use a pattern from a book I have bought, like the one I'm using now---a book of patterns for 4 or fewer skeins of yarn projects.

_"easy as 1-2-3-skeins"; [58 quick-to-knit projects] 
published by HOUSE OF WHITE BIRCHES and available for purchase on the <CreateforLess.com> website._


----------



## Bearlady56 (Aug 21, 2011)

I relate to this topic tremendously. In addition to the poor photos or lack of , what really frustrates me is the way some patterns are written. the y often assume you know what the next step is and so they jump past an important direction.
It one of my biggest pet peeves.


----------



## Czar-knitter (Aug 25, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> This is what makes Ravelry such a valuable resource. You can look at the photos other knitters/crocheters have taken of their less-than-professionally-posed but usually far more informative photos _before_ committing to purchasing or just beginning (if it's free) a pattern.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

My sentiments exactly.

I would also add that if the item is worked in a pattern with a lacy or textured repeat, PLEASE provide the base number of stitches in the repeat so I can knit a swatch. Of course one can back this info out from the pattern, but it is so much nicer when you don't have to do that.



vjh1530 said:


> I do not understand why designers, who want us to purchase their patterns, often do not provide a decent photo so we can see if it is a project we would like to knit or crochet. Before I spend money on a pattern I want to be able to at least see what the item looks like and what the stitch pattern is. I am so tired of trying to look at tiny photos that barely show details. This is especially true for items like cowls that when photographed being worn by a model are scrunched or twisted around her neck.
> 
> If you want me to buy your design, please show it to me!
> Thanks for letting me vent, lol!!


----------



## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

Agreed. I think the problem arises because some people are great knitters and designers, but NOT good teachers. A pattern is basically a teacher. We all know people who are very intelligent and talented but abysmal teachers. Such people have just forgotten how much they know, don't have any idea how much they assume you know and no idea of when they think of something as being one step when it is really two or more.



Bearlady56 said:


> I relate to this topic tremendously. In addition to the poor photos or lack of , what really frustrates me is the way some patterns are written. the y often assume you know what the next step is and so they jump past an important direction.
> It one of my biggest pet peeves.


----------



## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

The only patterns I buy are from thrift shops and I prefer the older ones, pre-1985.


----------



## Kathie (Mar 29, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> My sentiments exactly.
> 
> I would also add that if the item is worked in a pattern with a lacy or textured repeat, PLEASE provide the base number of stitches in the repeat so I can knit a swatch. Of course one can back this info out from the pattern, but it is so much nicer when you don't have to do that.


This is another pet peeve of mine. Sometimes I want to change the size of things and knowing the base number of stitches would make things much easier.


----------



## riggy (Apr 9, 2012)

I totally agree all models should be told to tie their hair back


----------



## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

I can attest that being a tall, blue-eyed blonde, size 8 would not bypass any of the issues we are all discussing!

Also, not to disagree with any of the comments but I do find that as my experience and skill level increase I can more readily (at least sometimes) 'read' the garment in a photo.



Dsynr said:


> One of the reasons I DON'T BUY patterns.
> The models are pretty women. The poses are fine. The scenery is just fine.
> But what is being offered for sale is the PATTERN NOT the MODEL.
> I could knit for the rest of my life and I still wouldn't be tall, blonde, blue-eyed, and a perfect size 8! :thumbdown:
> ...


----------



## tonyastewart (Sep 1, 2014)

These are a double edged sword all valid if too much details are given then patterns are stolen, not enough you may put your perspective client off, there is no win for the designers all you can do is attempt to please the majority and hope that most folks realize how much work goes into patterns, for example I designed a sweater that I built other designs off of and found many mistakes for the past couple of days had I sold that right away no one might want any of my patterns just remember designing ripping out redoing all this takes time and not everyone has state of the art cameras some just have cell phones to work with etc it's a learning curve I would suggest asking the designer lots of questions before you buy and hope that will take the edge away


----------



## CdnKnittingNan (Nov 17, 2011)

Hear yee, hear yee! And I would add to that, tell us the yardage of yarn for the project. That way we would know if we even have something in our stash to make it.


----------



## mollyannhad (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi there!!!

I am a pattern designer, and you can see the pattern stitches in my patterns in the photos. I say this because, the complaint you have is one of the things that irks me too. So, I take my own photos of my projects, and I try to take them so that the pattern stitch shows up as clearly as possible!! I have tried to make my patterns include all the things that are quite often left out of pattern instructions in books or from wherever. I think my biggest pet peeve would be when the weight of the yarn is not included. So many times they will just say what brand it is, then I have to spend time investigating. 

I also like to use light colored yarns in my designs so that they show up better in the photos.

So, go ahead check out my patterns on ravelry, and see if they dont meet with your expectations!! You can click on the link right below my post.


----------



## GrammaAnn (Dec 16, 2011)

I tend to skip patterns with no photos, too! I want to know ahead of time if I like the design or not! Ann


----------



## riggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Beautifully photographed - patterns clearly seen :thumbup:


----------



## conch72 (May 11, 2012)

baglady1104 said:


> I agree with everything you've all said. Having just purchased and downloaded a pattern, which is rare for me, too, as I usually find there are plenty of free patterns available, I would like to share the following from WEBS. Of course, I had to go to their blog to see this, but there is a link to it on the pattern page:
> http://blog.yarn.com/valley-yarns-show-and-tell-450-purlless-pullover/
> 
> It would be nice if this were the rule rather than the exception for online pattern shopping. I have looked over the pattern and it looks pretty straightforward. (Hope the link works.)


Hmmm. . . . I'm not sure I agree that this pattern posting is a good example of how to market a pattern. It's OK (I guess), better than a lot of them, BUT. . . . what does the back of this sweater look like???? This is something I've noticed in some pattern ads: single or multiple photos taken from the same angle. What's the value in that? Better to have just 2 pictures (front and back) than 20 pics that don't give a total view.

i also detest pictures where the fabric is too dark to have a good idea of how the item will really look. While I also gravitate toward black and other dark colors, if you're trying to sell a pattern, make sure potential buyers can see the item. Knitters aren't impressed with the model's coquettish pose.


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

I like to see the pattern stitch clearly and, for afghans and such, I like to see the edging. If I can't get that info in the photo I don't do it. But I shouldn't complain since I could not design a pattern myself. I can crochet just about anything IF I have a good clear pattern to follow.


----------



## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> Thank goodness "your day" is long gone. It's a new day now with modern technology. It doesn't have to be a huge over the top event or cost a lot to take decent photos. Gone are the days when long laborious hours were spent in a dark room. It's the age of instant gratification and digital imaging has made everyone a photographer. Annie Liebovitz admitted she uses her smart phone to take photos and even stated that she thinks some of her best work was taken with a cell phone. Designers need only to use common sense and understand who their customer is - it costs nothing, but is worth more than just about anything else.
> 
> The issue is not just the quality of the photo - it's much more basic. Show us the beef!
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct about this. For the most part I will never pay for a pattern if its another top down something because I can knit those in my sleep. This year I have only bought two patterns both were ridiculously priced at $12 - one was for a shawl, another a wrap ( fox paws is the wrap, the shawl is from the same designer). These were a huge challenge to knit and the results are stunning, but I just hate the technique - its laborious and frustrating.

For the most part, I don't understand why anyone sells patterns for scarves and cowls or even hats for that matter.


----------



## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

baglady1104 said:


> I agree with everything you've all said. Having just purchased and downloaded a pattern, which is rare for me, too, as I usually find there are plenty of free patterns available, I would like to share the following from WEBS. Of course, I had to go to their blog to see this, but there is a link to it on the pattern page:
> http://blog.yarn.com/valley-yarns-show-and-tell-450-purlless-pullover/
> 
> It would be nice if this were the rule rather than the exception for online pattern shopping. I have looked over the pattern and it looks pretty straightforward. (Hope the link works.)


This link is interesting. Am I wrong in thinking that all the women are wearing the same sweater, knit in the 36-inch size?


----------



## riggy (Apr 9, 2012)

Artbarn said:


> This link is interesting. Am I wrong in thinking that all the women are wearing the same sweater, knit in the 36-inch size?


How great to see real people wearing the jumper


----------



## Linda Beth (Sep 16, 2013)

vjh1530 said:


> I do not understand why designers, who want us to purchase their patterns, often do not provide a decent photo so we can see if it is a project we would like to knit or crochet. Before I spend money on a pattern I want to be able to at least see what the item looks like and what the stitch pattern is. I am so tired of trying to look at tiny photos that barely show details. This is especially true for items like cowls that when photographed being worn by a model are scrunched or twisted around her neck.
> 
> If you want me to buy your design, please show it to me!
> Thanks for letting me vent, lol!!


On this same topic, they shouldn't show the item knit in a very dark color. Even if the photo is fairly large, we can't always see the details.


----------



## Linday (Jan 22, 2012)

I have often sent a message to the designer, especially on Ravelry, if I find the posted pictures inadequate for my needs. Every designer I contacted was happy to post additional pictures as requested. It does some times take a few days but I have never had anyone refuse.


----------



## Joyce Stewart (Feb 1, 2015)

dijewe said:


> You are absolutely correct about this. For the most part I will never pay for a pattern if its another top down something because I can knit those in my sleep. This year I have only bought two patterns both were ridiculously priced at $12 - one was for a shawl, another a wrap ( fox paws is the wrap, the shawl is from the same designer). These were a huge challenge to knit and the results are stunning, but I just hate the technique - its laborious and frustrating.
> 
> For the most part, I don't understand why anyone sells patterns for scarves and cowls or even hats for that matter.


And dish cloths.....why?


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

DesertPurl said:


> I so agree!! In addition, it makes me nuts when the designer shows their work in a really dark yarn. There's no hope of seeing any detail. If others have chosen lighter colors on Ravelry, that's really helpful but when they note that they have made mods, I still feel like I don't know what the pattern will really have in store. That's a problem for folks like me who are relearning skills from decades ago.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> Thank goodness "your day" is long gone. It's a new day now with modern technology. It doesn't have to be a huge over the top event or cost a lot to take decent photos. Gone are the days when long laborious hours were spent in a dark room. It's the age of instant gratification and digital imaging has made everyone a photographer. Annie Liebovitz admitted she uses her smart phone to take photos and even stated that she thinks some of her best work was taken with a cell phone. Designers need only to use common sense and understand who their customer is - it costs nothing, but is worth more than just about anything else.
> 
> The issue is not just the quality of the photo - it's much more basic. Show us the beef!
> 
> ...


You have a great way with words, Mo! This is exactly how I see it as well. How can you expect me to just "trust" the designer and buy the pattern without being able to see it? Same with all the MKALs on Ravelry. I get the excitement or whatever of the process, but at $5-7 a pattern there is no way I am spending that much $$ on something I can't see and may hate when I am finished. But so many knitters seem to love them.


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

I need a good photo or two or three as I need them for reference whilst knitting up a project - just to make certain I'm following the pattern correctly. My guess is that really great pictures can easily be used as the pattern, hence the designer loses out on the sale. It would be interesting to hear a few more views from the designers.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

trish2222 said:


> Even with a light colour you might _still_ not be able to see the pattern in all it's glory. I was looking at this pattern yesterday and as you can see the actual pattern photo isn't very informative. The lace pattern seems to disappear midway down into goodness knows what. It's actually a band of stocking stitch and then the lace pattern is resumed. I can't see that!
> Fortunately there are plenty projects and I can see it clearly. Still not sure if I'll do it though :lol:
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/gossamer


At least one of the knitters who made it skipped the band of stockinette completely! It's jumped into my already too long queue. Thank you - I think!


----------



## cheeny (Mar 12, 2013)

vjh1530 said:


> And if your computer crashes, you still have all your patterns. Ravelry is the best thing that has happened to knitting IMHO. The ability to network with knitters around the world is so valuable!


hate to disagree with you vhj1530, your right if you save to Ravelry your patterns are safe but i think the best thing that ever happen, to save patterns is the cloud. that way you can have all your patterns in one place no matter what site you get the pattern from. IMHO


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Dangrktty said:


> ... I had a problem with this Lion Brand pattern,
> 
> Lion Brand® Homespun® Pattern #: 40464-K
> http://www.lionbrand.com/patterns/khs-cape.html?noImages=
> ...


After reading just one page of the three of reviews of it in Lion Brand's website, I wouldn't touch it. There are plenty of _good_ cape patterns to be had without the frustration that seems to be built in to that one.


----------



## Bridgeknitter (Sep 18, 2014)

bettyirene said:


> Feel better now? I know exactly what you mean, so I NEVER buy patterns, as there are so many lovely FREE ones out there, and also because it is not easy for me to send money overseas for the paid patterns.


Why do you assume you would be sending money overseas for paid patterns?
I'm sure there are designers all over the world and some might even be in one's very own country. Just saying....


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

johannecw said:


> And I like to know what weight yarn and the size of needles the pattern is for before buying it!


I have yet to see a pattern - paid _or_ free - that makes no mention of yarn and needles needed to make it, unless it's a general recipe that can be made in _any_ yarn with the appropriate size needles.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

disgo said:


> It unfortunately is not a thought but an actual fact. Done all the time in the fashion industry by nefarious sorts like myself that were not only taught that technique but have a savant way of storing that information for later use. If you are paying close attention to Pinterest and other such sites you will see all of them copying each other and it is not new by any means (and thus all the wonky names for stitch patterns and poor translations and key phrases used like they know what they mean). Prior to modern department stores with their later display windows one would need to make an appointment to see what the designer had to offer and that many times was illustrations for the less wealthy clients. Why illustration was a business in and of itself.
> 
> One also needs to consider the costs involved to create a photo since in my day you got only a illustration like on clothing patterns at the time that may or may not give you a back image let alone exact details. Model costs + stylists + hair & make up + location scout + photographer and their entourage + lay out and print costs etc. etc. etc. and people having fits they need to pay $5 for a pattern. That is why the tours and tutorials and all the stuff that comes with the publicity is where they make up in overhead costs.


Sadly, you make a very strong point here. As a devoted pattern collector, I actually find very few that don't show/tell enough to give me a good idea of whether I want to make it, and since reason tells me that I don't have enough years left in my life (and never did) to make every pattern, I don't really concern myself about the ones that "get away."


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Dsynr said:


> One of the reasons I DON'T BUY patterns.
> The models are pretty women. The poses are fine. The scenery is just fine.
> But what is being offered for sale is the PATTERN NOT the MODEL.
> I could knit for the rest of my life and I still wouldn't be tall, blonde, blue-eyed, and a perfect size 8! :thumbdown:
> ...


Link to that book: http://www.createforless.com/House-of-White-Birches-Easy-As-1-2-3-Skeins-Book/pid199083.aspx

It may have 58 patterns, but only 38 have made it to Ravelry so far: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/sources/house-of-white-birches-121066-easy-as-1-2-3-skeins

I keep telling myself that I need no more pattern books!!

The publishers of fancily laid-out patterns are hoping you'll see their lavish photos and buy into the fantasy that the product will look as good on you as it does on the model *if* you make it with _their_ yarn and _their_ needles. Actually, this holds true for ALL advertising. Why are lissome models shown next to cars? To sell the car to men. It's all manipulation.


----------



## yanagi (Jul 7, 2013)

Me too.

Another pet peeve is the models. They all look like Twiggy. I've got hips. They don't seem to have any shape at all.


----------



## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

And it makes me crazy when the sample is in a really dark yarn so I can't see what it looks like. Of corse that is where Ravelry is fantastic!


----------



## prolife (Aug 10, 2013)

They show everything on the clothing patterns........just not the fibre patterns. What is the difference?


----------



## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

run4fittness said:


> This is such an interesting topic. There are some folks on here who complain about all the photos in a pattern. It is nice to know there are others here like me who like to see close ups in order to decide if I want the pattern or not.


You and me both! Clear close-ups are important to me as well as a picture of the whole design.

One pet peeve of mine is the photographs using a model where the long hair of the model hides the neckline. Many, many years ago, I was reading in a "how to knit" book, that if the pictures for a pattern are not clear and you can't see all of the design elements of it such as a neckline... don't buy it!

Also, there are pictures of scarves, cowls and shawls on Ravelry where I can't tell what the item looks like because it's all scrunched up. Someone else pointed that out earlier on this thread. I won't buy it or download it even if it's free.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> You have a great way with words, Mo! This is exactly how I see it as well. How can you expect me to just "trust" the designer and buy the pattern without being able to see it? Same with all the MKALs on Ravelry. I get the excitement or whatever of the process, but at $5-7 a pattern there is no way I am spending that much $$ on something I can't see and may hate when I am finished. But so many knitters seem to love them.


In my jaundiced opinion, mystery knit-a-longs - free or not - are a sly way to get a pattern test-knitted. Since my sands are more run out than not, I prefer to spend my time on tried and true patterns rather than risk wasting it on erroneous ones, however tantalizing they may seem to be.


----------



## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

Had not thought of them in that light, I just never could understand why anyone would start knitting something without knowing what they were going to end up with. As you say, I'll never have enough time to knit all the things I know about, much less a 'mystery.'



Jessica-Jean said:


> In my jaundiced opinion, mystery knit-a-longs - free or not - are a sly way to get a pattern test-knitted. Since my sands are more run out than not, I prefer to spend my time on tried and true patterns rather than risk wasting it on erroneous ones, however tantalizing they may seem to be.


----------



## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

bigtimeyarnie said:


> I'm SO with you!! Those tiny pics don't show any detail at all. AND I want you to tell me up front if it's a chart or a written pattern.


Here is another huzzah for Ravelry. They have a filter for written patterns, which I always use. It's not 100%. Some that say they are written are only so for the construction, while the stitch patterns are charted. That's not the majority, by any means, however.


----------



## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

ElyseKnox said:


> Agreed. I think the problem arises because some people are great knitters and designers, but NOT good teachers. A pattern is basically a teacher. We all know people who are very intelligent and talented but abysmal teachers. Such people have just forgotten how much they know, don't have any idea how much they assume you know and no idea of when they think of something as being one step when it is really two or more.


Could not agree with you more, Elyse.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

dijewe said:


> ... This year I have only bought two patterns both were ridiculously priced at $12 - one was for a shawl, another a wrap ( fox paws is the wrap, the shawl is from the same designer). These were a huge challenge to knit and the results are stunning, but I just hate the technique - its laborious and frustrating....


Just what technique do you hate about that Fox Paws Wrap? http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/fox-paws
It looks to me like a fantastic stash-buster!
Which was the shawl? http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#pc=shawl-wrap&designer=Xandy%20Peters&craft=knitting&view=captioned_thumbs&sort=date&availability=online


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Joyce Stewart said:


> And dish cloths.....why?


Because some folks like it all spelled out one stitch at a time. 
Because new knitters often start with something that gives instant gratification. 
Because they're smarter than I was, when working from a printed pattern was new for me. _My_ 'instant gratification' project was a lesson in humility that took 35 years start to finish! http://www.ravelry.com/projects/JessicaJean/sampler-afghan-2


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> Agreed. I think the problem arises because some people are great knitters and designers, but NOT good teachers. A pattern is basically a teacher. We all know people who are very intelligent and talented but abysmal teachers. Such people have just forgotten how much they know, don't have any idea how much they assume you know and no idea of when they think of something as being one step when it is really two or more.


I think you've hit a neglected nail right on the head!
If one has forgotten how difficult it was at the start, how can one be expected to write (a pattern, a text-book, a recipe, or any kind of instructional thing) in a manner that even a total novice could follow the directions?
I believe the GOOD pattern writers (and teachers) are those who *do* still remember how hard it was at first, and they make a conscious effort to make things clear to follow.

When I see an interesting pattern on a blog where the blogger states that the pattern was written up _afterwards_, I'm gone. The pattern may well be written afterwards, IF IT IS AGAIN KNITTED from that written version _by someone else_. It's akin to proof-reading. You never do a good job of proofing your own text; someone _else_ needs to do it.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> In my jaundiced opinion, mystery knit-a-longs - free or not - are a sly way to get a pattern test-knitted. Since my sands are more run out than not, I prefer to spend my time on tried and true patterns rather than risk wasting it on erroneous ones, however tantalizing they may seem to be.


As usual, Jessica-Jean, I'm way more with you than not. I agree with the thoughts on the mystery KALs and have never done one; if I'm going to invest that kind of time and energy, it ain't gonna be on a mystery that I may not like nor wish on my worst enemy, if I had one. I do, however, prefer the word realistic to jaundiced, even though they may be one in the same ;~).

Your comments on patterns, pattern books in particular, hit home with me. As I briefly reflect, I have way more than I need of every knitting-related book, tool, gadget, needle, and other assorted items to the point of bordering upon the obscene. I suppose, at the age of 76+, I really ought to think about divesting. Maybe. Um, some day.....


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

yanagi said:


> Me too.
> 
> Another pet peeve is the models. They all look like Twiggy. I've got hips. They don't seem to have any shape at all.


Be happy that you have hips. I don't, and I truly suffer when I can't avoid sitting on something hard, whether it be steel chairs, wooden planks, or the ground. Just think, those Twiggy models suffer, too.....


----------



## KnitterNatalie (Feb 20, 2011)

Agree!!


----------



## farmkiti (Oct 13, 2011)

Kathie said:


> This is another pet peeve of mine. Sometimes I want to change the size of things and knowing the base number of stitches would make things much easier.


Ditto, ditto, ditto! If I have to figure out the base number of stitches, I won't buy the pattern. It even bothers me on the free patterns. If you're nice enough to post a free pattern, you've already figured out this number. Why not post it for everyone to see? Some of them are really hard to figure out. And if you're selling the pattern, I can understand not putting that number up front before the pattern is paid for, but at least tell me that you will have that number in there.

And I agree with JJ and others on the reason for writing out instructions even for wash cloths. I need every detail written out; otherwise I have trouble picturing the result, or even getting to the desired outcome.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

cheeny said:


> hate to disagree with you vhj1530, your right if you save to Ravelry your patterns are safe but i think the best thing that ever happen, to save patterns is the cloud. that way you can have all your patterns in one place no matter what site you get the pattern from. IMHO


I'm just happy that I've learned to navigate Ravelry - more or less. The 'cloud' is - as yet - beyond my ken, though I do use Dropbox a bit. Is that what's meant by 'the cloud'?


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> ... I have way more than I need of every knitting-related book, tool, gadget, needle, and other assorted items to the point of bordering upon the obscene. I suppose, at the age of 76+, I really ought to think about divesting. Maybe. Um, some day.....


Some of my wealth (of yarny-related things, including yarn) does get given away to anyone who shows an interest. However, my survivors will have to truck the remainder to Goodwill ... across a single street from home.  Since much of it came from there, it's only right that it delight some future yarny folks in search of old tools, yarn, and books at bargain prices.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

KnitterNatalie said:


> Agree!!


One of my peeves with KP is those who do not use *Quote Reply* and make such a remark. Without knowing what/which post it is you're in agreement with, it's meaningless.


----------



## cradleycreator (Apr 8, 2015)

i guess they dont want them copied


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

cradleycreator said:


> I guess they don't want them copied


Perhaps. However, an experienced knitter who's able to 'read' the stitch pattern would still have a lot of work to do to figure out where to make increases/decreases. Few seem either able or willing to go to that trouble. 
In the case of a simple item - cowl, cap, blanket - there are stitch directories galore - online and in books; anyone can take a plain pattern and 'dress' it up.

A photo that is an amorphous blob of whatever, is as useless in deciding for or against trying the pattern as no photo at all.


----------



## cradleycreator (Apr 8, 2015)

i guess they dont want them copied


----------



## Frannyward (Mar 22, 2012)

It bugs me when I am looking at a pattern for a hat. Sometimes it just shows the front of the hat on the person. I would also like to see the back of the hat before deciding to buy the pattern.
:thumbdown:


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

We have to remember the designer has designed a pattern for the general public to enjoy free or to buy. She is not your personal designer to fit your body shape, knit in your favorite color or to provide close-ups for you to copy her pattern. 
There is no pleasing everyone. 
How many of us have taken the time to contact a designer with a 'thank you' when we are 100% delighted with a pattern?


----------



## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> At least one of the knitters who made it skipped the band of stockinette completely! It's jumped into my already too long queue. Thank you - I think!


You're welcome - I love to be an enabler! If I do make it I'll be doing it all in lace - I much preferred that version. Other people's project photos and notes are so helpful...


----------



## cheeny (Mar 12, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I'm just happy that I've learned to navigate Ravelry - more or less. The 'cloud' is - as yet - beyond my ken, though I do use Dropbox a bit. Is that what's meant by 'the cloud'?


no, i am not talking about Dropbox, though i use to use it. Cloud is a place smilar to Dropbox, a place to save things off your computer so if something happens to your computer, you don't loose it. i don't understand what all you can do beside save things. i'm not a computer geek, so i just use the save part with cloud. i hope i was able to explain cloud to you, if not maybe someone else on this forum may be able to explain it better.


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

I'm having a hard time visualising plumpish roundish models that look like me, being a great incentive for me to buy the pattern. Isn't that a bitlike trying to package Belgian chocolates in newspaper. I understand the underlying sentiment, but somehow think we've become brainwashed into wanting sugar coated advertising


----------



## moke (Oct 8, 2011)

I so appreciate ravelry, it has made knitting and crochet so much nicer for me. but I will not purchase a pattern I can not see.


----------



## Nana5 (Aug 17, 2011)

I feel the same way as most, love free patterns.....so many sites, so little time. I will pay for a pattern if it is unusual and I know I am going to make it!!


----------



## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I'm just happy that I've learned to navigate Ravelry - more or less. The 'cloud' is - as yet - beyond my ken, though I do use Dropbox a bit. Is that what's meant by 'the cloud'?


Actually, Dropbox is a cloud-based service. You have an account to which is allotted a certain amount of space. You can upload patterns, pictures, whatever to your Dropbox account, and then download them wherever you happen to be, and with whatever device you have with you that has the software to enable you to use the files.

When I retired last year, I uploaded a lot of my work history materials to Dropbox, so I could have access to it at home. Standard practice when someone leaves is to scrub the hard drive of their machine. Everything would have been lost.

So, you see, Jessica Jean, you know more about 'the cloud' than you gave yourself credit for.


----------



## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Perhaps. However, an experienced knitter who's able to 'read' the stitch pattern would still have a lot of work to do to figure out where to make increases/decreases. Few seem either able or willing to go to that trouble.
> In the case of a simple item - cowl, cap, blanket - there are stitch directories galore - online and in books; anyone can take a plain pattern and 'dress' it up.
> 
> A photo that is an amorphous blob of whatever, is as useless in deciding for or against trying the pattern as no photo at all.


Here is a classic example of what I was talking about. Anne Hanson is a wonderful designer - I would rank her up there with the Dee's of the knitting world. Here is one of her latest designs which looks beautiful and there are no less than a dozen wonderful photos showing different ways to wear it - that's all well and good, but I want to see the whole damn thing - the shape, the actual size, stitch pattern placement. There is one that is loosely draped around the mannequin, so at least I can get an idea of length, but still not the actual shape. How hard is it to just take a picture of something "naked"? If you want me to give you $8 for the pattern, SHOW IT TO ME!

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/love-me-two-times

This is why I buy Dee's patterns: She isn't afraid to show them off so I can make an informed decision for myself whether or not it's a pattern I want to try.

http://www.ravelry.com/designers/dee-okeefe


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> ... How many of us have taken the time to contact a designer with a 'thank you' when we are 100% delighted with a pattern?


  I have, but not often enough! Of course, in the case of deceased ones (EZ, for instance) that's not possible.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

CBB said:


> Actually, Dropbox is a cloud-based service. You have an account to which is allotted a certain amount of space. You can upload patterns, pictures, whatever to your Dropbox account, and then download them wherever you happen to be, and with whatever device you have with you that has the software to enable you to use the files.
> 
> When I retired last year, I uploaded a lot of my work history materials to Dropbox, so I could have access to it at home. Standard practice when someone leaves is to scrub the hard drive of their machine. Everything would have been lost.
> 
> So, you see, Jessica Jean, you know more about 'the cloud' than you gave yourself credit for.


Ah! Thanks for that! I should use Dropbox more; maybe someday I will.

About scrubbing hard drives ... I wonder if the technology will ever exist to 'scrub' soft drives (brains) of unwanted memories. _That_ could be a godsend!


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Ah! Thanks for that! I should use Dropbox more; maybe someday I will.
> 
> About scrubbing hard drives ... I wonder if the technology will ever exist to 'scrub' soft drives (brains) of unwanted memories. _That_ could be a godsend!


Jessica-Jean, I often thought of how I'd like to erase some memories. Of course, they are tough memories and have helped form who I am now I guess. There is technology to do that, as you know, but not in the way you suggest. We don't get to choose which ones will fade. I just wish there were a way that you could put all of the answers, help, advice you've given everyone on KP into one publication. It would be a best seller for us yarnies for sure! Are you ready to take on that project???? :thumbup:


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> Here is a classic example of what I was talking about. Anne Hanson is a wonderful designer - I would rank her up there with the Dee's of the knitting world. Here is one of her latest designs which looks beautiful and there are no less than a dozen wonderful photos showing different ways to wear it - that's all well and good, but I want to see the whole damn thing - the shape, the actual size, stitch pattern placement. There is one that is loosely draped around the mannequin, so at least I can get an idea of length, but still not the actual shape. How hard is it to just take a picture of something "naked"? If you want me to give you $8 for the pattern, SHOW IT TO ME!
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/love-me-two-times
> 
> ...


Ah! The pattern you've chosen to study is brand-spanking-new on Ravelry. NO ONE has yet worked it up. I might save such a tantalizing pattern to my queue with a note to check back after others have worked through any bugs it may have and after others have posted their photos of it. I will not jump on a brand new pattern anymore.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> We have to remember the designer has designed a pattern for the general public to enjoy free or to buy. She is not your personal designer to fit your body shape, knit in your favorite color or to provide close-ups for you to copy her pattern.
> There is no pleasing everyone.
> How many of us have taken the time to contact a designer with a 'thank you' when we are 100% delighted with a pattern?


Thank you for putting into print thoughts that I have had many times, along with why not take a little initiative and make your own changes since you are the only one who knows exactly what you want (not you, personally, except for the thank you ;~D).


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Ah! The pattern you've chosen to study is brand-spanking-new on Ravelry. NO ONE has yet worked it up. I might save such a tantalizing pattern to my queue with a note to check back after others have worked through any bugs it may have and after others have posted their photos of it. I will not jump on a brand new pattern anymore.


Ah, good points all the way around. Thanks for the learning experience.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> In my jaundiced opinion, mystery knit-a-longs - free or not - are a sly way to get a pattern test-knitted. Since my sands are more run out than not, I prefer to spend my time on tried and true patterns rather than risk wasting it on erroneous ones, however tantalizing they may seem to be.


My thoughts as well, but you said it so much better than I could!!


----------



## Manga (Sep 23, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> When I see an interesting pattern on a blog where the blogger states that the pattern was written up _afterwards_, I'm gone. The pattern may well be written afterwards, IF IT IS AGAIN KNITTED from that written version _by someone else_. It's akin to proof-reading. You never do a good job of proofing your own text; someone _else_ needs to do it.


I agree. I'm afraid many of the patterns I run across have been written in just that way. Someone knits something interesting or eyecatching, and only then tries to write a pattern.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> Here is a classic example of what I was talking about. Anne Hanson is a wonderful designer - I would rank her up there with the Dee's of the knitting world. Here is one of her latest designs which looks beautiful and there are no less than a dozen wonderful photos showing different ways to wear it - that's all well and good, but I want to see the whole damn thing - the shape, the actual size, stitch pattern placement. There is one that is loosely draped around the mannequin, so at least I can get an idea of length, but still not the actual shape. How hard is it to just take a picture of something "naked"? If you want me to give you $8 for the pattern, SHOW IT TO ME!
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/love-me-two-times
> 
> This is why I buy Dee's patterns: She isn't afraid to show them off so I can make an informed decision for myself whether or not it's a pattern I want to try.
> ...


Exellent examples of what I mean - Anne Hanson has wonderful designs, but with all those photos she has for that project not one shows it full on so I can see what it truly looks like. Layering it all over itself is just confusing. I want to see how long the wings of the shawl are compared to the body of the shawl, is the shape rounded, pointed, sharply sloped, and so on. Three simple photos - one front, one back, one of the stitch pattern, would tell me pretty much all I need to know to make the decision of whether to buy it.

Dee's patterns, on the other hand, are exactly what I personally need to decide if I want to knit it. Love her photos and her descriptions!!

Woohoo!! I just saw she is having a big sale!!


----------



## cheeny (Mar 12, 2013)

about problems with patterns. if any disgners are here reading this whole so far 8 pagesof complaints, you are getting the what of, the knitter and crocheter what out of pattern. here's your chance to have an edge that others designers, not reading this forum won't have. they won't know why they are loosing business.


----------



## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

So the consensus is that designers purposely do not include clear pics because they fear their designs will be stolen, rather than purchased? 

Hats off to those who can look at a picture and knit it. I'm a good knitter, and maybe could eventually figure it out, but that's why I use patterns. I don't want to figure it out myself (unless it's my own design). I would guess that designers lose more sales because of unclear pictures than from theft.


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

I would really love some input from the designers. I design quilts, often with the intention of teaching them. I have a huge amount of fun with the design process and will have to confess that to then put the design into words for others to follow, takes very much longer and is not easy. I understand what I have written, but know from experience that not everyone is able to follow my instructions. I'm sure the same would apply to knitting design too and can only say, spare a thought for the hours put into conceiving a project, making it, writing instructions .... etc ..... and imagine a ravelry without designers.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

morningstar said:


> Jessica-Jean, I often thought of how I'd like to erase some memories. Of course, they are tough memories and have helped form who I am now I guess. There is technology to do that, as you know, but not in the way you suggest. We don't get to choose which ones will fade. I just wish there were a way that you could put all of the answers, help, advice you've given everyone on KP into one publication. It would be a best seller for us yarnies for sure! Are you ready to take on that project???? :thumbup:


Every word I've written on KP is still there and available to any enterprising soul who feels like editing it into a whole: http://www.knittingparadise.com/user_posts_listing.jsp?usernum=11308&page=1
As a teenager, I dreamt of becoming an author. I neglected to take into account how much real WORK is involved in the process. KP is as close as I'll ever come to that immature dream, and I'm quite satisfied with that.


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Every word I've written on KP is still there and available to any enterprising soul who feels like editing it into a whole: http://www.knittingparadise.com/user_posts_listing.jsp?usernum=11308&page=1
> As a teenager, I dreamt of becoming an author. I neglected to take into account how much real WORK is involved in the process. KP is as close as I'll ever come to that immature dream, and I'm quite satisfied with that.


 :-D OK!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

judypfennemore said:


> I would really love some input from the designers. I design quilts, often with the intention of teaching them. I have a huge amount of fun with the design process and will have to confess that to then put the design into words for others to follow, takes very much longer and is not easy. I understand what I have written, but know from experience that not everyone is able to follow my instructions. I'm sure the same would apply to knitting design too and can only say, spare a thought for the hours put into conceiving a project, making it, writing instructions .... etc ..... and imagine a ravelry without designers.


For much of my life I designed my own patterns - mainly because I couldn't afford patterns when my kids were little as well as because in my crafting community no one bought patterns, every made up their own designs, or inherited them from moms and grandmas. Pattern books were hard to find and expensive, and there was no internet. Had it's good sides and down sides. So I totally respect the time and work designers go through, as do many of us here who lived as I did. The point is that after a designer goes through all the work to get a pattern ready to sell, you have wasted your time if you don't include photos that show me what I will be spending my money on. I can afford patterns now, I don't want to do all that work and re-work to get a design to come out properly, but I won't buy what I can't see.

It is especially hard on the internet, because we can't look at a pattern or book the way we can in a store. Even if the picture is not great I can read the pattern and figure out what I need to know. On the internet, if I have only a title and a worthless photo, I will pass it up every time.


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

vjh1530 said:


> For much of my life I designed my own patterns - mainly because I couldn't afford patterns when my kids were little as well as because in my crafting community no one bought patterns, every made up their own designs, or inherited them from moms and grandmas. Pattern books were hard to find and expensive, and there was no internet. Had it's good sides and down sides. So I totally respect the time and work designers go through, as do many of us here who lived as I did. The point is that after a designer goes through all the work to get a pattern ready to sell, you have wasted your time if you don't include photos that show me what I will be spending my money on. I can afford patterns now, I don't want to do all that work and re-work to get a design to come out properly, but I won't buy what I can't see.
> 
> It is especially hard on the internet, because we can't look at a pattern or book the way we can in a store. Even if the picture is not great I can read the pattern and figure out what I need to know. On the internet, if I have only a title and a worthless photo, I will pass it up every time.


Point taken!! Creative solutions needed to confront the new challenges posed by this new exciting and different way of doing 'things'


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

judypfennemore said:


> Point taken!! Creative solutions needed to confront the new challenges posed by this new exciting and different way of doing 'things'


Exactly!!


----------



## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Just what technique do you hate about that Fox Paws Wrap? http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/fox-paws
> It looks to me like a fantastic stash-buster!
> Which was the shawl? http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#pc=shawl-wrap&designer=Xandy%20Peters&craft=knitting&view=captioned_thumbs&sort=date&availability=online


It is hell on the hands even when trying different needles and is not an easy knit while you watch TV project. Consistent concentration is required as frogging rows means frogging hundreds of stitches.
The shawl is the latest one, also by Xandy Peters knitted in Noro. ( Sorry I am in Africa at the moment and internet connections are not quite as tight as we're used to, so I am avoiding the task of linking to the ravelry pattern in case my internet connection bombs half way through). I bought the noro yarn recommended by really don't like how it turned out but I have never generally been a fan of Noro yarns. Frogging it is out of the question as it would be a bit of a nightmare IMO, so I plan on turning it into a gypsy shawl with some embroidery and other embellishments.

In no way am I knocking the designer - this is a new technique with stunning results, but it is not by any means the easiest thing I have done. I understand that the price of $12 can be justified due to the complexity of the patterns although I had to look for demos on youtube to actually get it - but I was willing to pay in any case.


----------

