# L.O.L.L.. #11



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I'm with you. Our neighbors hate us because instead of mowing we sowed protected flower seeds (wild flowers that aren't even allowed to be mowed along the roads) and we have a bamboo jungle in the back that hosts 3 nests for the state bird...also protected. By law we can't mow and we can't touch the bamboo.


Please see my remark to Eve on page 168. :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Spoken by a man who has absolutely no idea or understanding of the problem. Would it not be wonderful if he could be hypnotised and made to think that he was a woman who had been raped and now finds that she is carrying the rapists child. I think that would be an eye opening experience for him.


Oh, that would be awesome. What a great idea.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Seems that our fathers had something in common, Wombat. In southern Nevada where I grew up, the lawns would be burned up by July. Not ours! It was the only green lawn on the block. I found out that he had a buddy that was the greens keeper at one of the golf courses. My dad would do brick work for him and in turn the greens keeper kept my dad in those special grass seeds that the golf courses used.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Fathers were nifty like that Brat. Mine was a butcher and he kept untold mates in meat in exchange for untold and likely dubious favours! I remember he had a mate called Spider (surname Webb), who would show up unannounced with either a box or parcel and leave with newspaper wrapped parcels about once a week. My mother was forever 'cursing' my father for the 'missing' lamb chops/steak/sausages from the freezer!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

A few more photos of my back garden. You will notice that my son is not given to wild exaggerations when he says "mum, a bit of a branch has fallen on the cat enclosure". He understates rather than over states. I would hate to see what he would describe as a 'huge branch'. I did a double take when I saw the size of his 'bit of a branch'. I had to call the expert tree loppers in to remove the branch. Kai said he would tackle it with the pruning saw. The experts used chain saws and had to climb the tree and rope the branch before they could tackle it. It cost over $700 to safely remove that branch. The yellow/ochre house with the dented gutter is the house next door. No my 'bit of a branch' did not dent the gutter, that was done over 20 years ago when the then owner of the house chainsawed the conifer trees that were growing there. He went mad with a chain saw and cut down so many trees that were growing on his block, including quite a few citrus trees.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveeeeeM has revealed herself. I like how you look. Your home and yard are lovely and the cat run is about the size of my apt.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> A few more photos of my back garden. You will notice that my son is not given to wild exaggerations when he says "mum, a bit of a branch has fallen on the cat enclosure". He understates rather than over states. I would hate to see what he would describe as a 'huge branch'. I did a double take when I saw the size of his 'bit of a branch'. I had to call the expert tree loppers in to remove the branch. Kai said he would tackle it with the pruning saw. The experts used chain saws and had to climb the tree and rope the branch before they could tackle it. It cost over $700 to safely remove that branch. The yellow/ochre house with the dented gutter is the house next door. No my 'bit of a branch' did not dent the gutter, that was done over 20 years ago when the then owner of the house chainsawed the conifer trees that were growing there. He went mad with a chain saw and cut down so many trees that were growing on his block, including quite a few citrus trees.


Eve, you're so funny! I like how you look too. What an expensive exercise getting the branch removed. I'd love to live in your house, so many adventures to be had. Perfect for the child in me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> A few more photos of my back garden. You will notice that my son is not given to wild exaggerations when he says "mum, a bit of a branch has fallen on the cat enclosure". He understates rather than over states. I would hate to see what he would describe as a 'huge branch'. I did a double take when I saw the size of his 'bit of a branch'. I had to call the expert tree loppers in to remove the branch. Kai said he would tackle it with the pruning saw. The experts used chain saws and had to climb the tree and rope the branch before they could tackle it. It cost over $700 to safely remove that branch. The yellow/ochre house with the dented gutter is the house next door. No my 'bit of a branch' did not dent the gutter, that was done over 20 years ago when the then owner of the house chainsawed the conifer trees that were growing there. He went mad with a chain saw and cut down so many trees that were growing on his block, including quite a few citrus trees.


Sorry, but I have another long, dull story to tell. My sister's house had a large back yard, with bushy trees along the south end to block the sun. Their neighbor to the south, from the time he bought his house, would keep asking them whether he could cut down their trees because they blocked his view (his view would have been sister's house and yard, not distant mountains or parkland), and sister and bil consistently refused permission.

One morning sis and bil looked out to see neighbor and another man walking around their trees, writing things down, and a few days later they awoke to the sound of chain saws cutting down their trees. Neighbor claimed that the last time he asked, they had said okay. (If they had, which they deny, it would have been in a sentence like "Okay, Hugh, we've had enough - stop asking because we'll never say Yes." ) Hugh promised he'd pay to replant when he put trees in his own yard. Then his trees went up, and they were 3-foot-high dwarf pines; at this point sister asked her lawyer bil if there was something they could do.

By law, an infringement like this (taking someone's property without permission and destroying it) is worth triple damages, if you can find a lawyer who knows his business. (Bil couldn't do all the research necessary and spend the time on the case, so they had to find someone else.) What complicated things was that Hugh's daughter was in college with our son; in fact, they lived in the same house and were active in the same groups and regarded each other as friends.

I think because of this, sis and bil never pushed for triple damages but found a decent lawyer who got them whatever it cost to replace their old trees, though because they were younger (trees, not sis etc.) they weren't as shady. Episode over. Eventually, Hugh and his wife divorced, and she kept the house.

Years later, when my mother died, I stayed at my sister's house to sit shiva (http://www.shiva.com/learning-center/sitting-shiva/), and the ex-Mrs. Hugh came over to pay a condolence call *to me.* She said nothing to her own neighbors, to whom she hadn't spoken at all since Hugh had had to pay for their plantings. DS and their daughter remained friends until she moved to Australia for post-doctoral work.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This is probably a really stupid question, but couldn't your sister and bil halted the work? I'm pretty sure I'd have called the police or somehow managed to get the cutting stopped until the facts were confirmed. What an awful neighbor!!


Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, but I have another long, dull story to tell. My sister's house had a large back yard, with bushy trees along the south end to block the sun. Their neighbor to the south, from the time he bought his house, would keep asking them whether he could cut down their trees because they blocked his view (his view would have been sister's house and yard, not distant mountains or parkland), and sister and bil consistently refused permission.
> 
> One morning sis and bil looked out to see neighbor and another man walking around their trees, writing things down, and a few days later they awoke to the sound of chain saws cutting down their trees. Neighbor claimed that the last time he asked, they had said okay. (If they had, which they deny, it would have been in a sentence like "Okay, Hugh, we've had enough - stop asking because we'll never say Yes." ) Hugh promised he'd pay to replant when he put trees in his own yard. Then his trees went up, and they were 3-foot-high dwarf pines; at this point sister asked her lawyer bil if there was something they could do.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This is probably a really stupid question, but couldn't your sister and bil halted the work? I'm pretty sure I'd have called the police or somehow managed to get the cutting stopped until the facts were confirmed. What an awful neighbor!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: If it had been me, the battle would have started with the first buzz of a chain saw. No lawyer and the damages are less.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, but I have another long, dull story to tell. My sister's house had a large back yard, with bushy trees along the south end to block the sun. Their neighbor to the south, from the time he bought his house, would keep asking them whether he could cut down their trees because they blocked his view (his view would have been sister's house and yard, not distant mountains or parkland), and sister and bil consistently refused permission.
> 
> One morning sis and bil looked out to see neighbor and another man walking around their trees, writing things down, and a few days later they awoke to the sound of chain saws cutting down their trees. Neighbor claimed that the last time he asked, they had said okay. (If they had, which they deny, it would have been in a sentence like "Okay, Hugh, we've had enough - stop asking because we'll never say Yes." ) Hugh promised he'd pay to replant when he put trees in his own yard. Then his trees went up, and they were 3-foot-high dwarf pines; at this point sister asked her lawyer bil if there was something they could do.
> 
> ...


I am very sorry that your sister had such a nasty experience with her neighbour chopping her trees down. I had a neighbour once who leaned across the fence with a chain saw and lopped the top of one of my trees. My son saw him and told him to stop or he would call the cops. He then tried to convince my son that the beautiful lemon scented gum was drying and he would cut it down for us. My son told him that the lemon scented gum was OK and not dying. It has a scraggly growth pattern. The neighbour insisted the tree was in poor shape. My son told him to drive into Kings Park and see the lemon scented gums then and he would see that our tree was healthy. I told him that if he cut any more of my trees I would personally take his chain saw to some of his appendages. No more trees chopped down. This was the neighbour who borrowed a friend's chain saw and went a little berserk with it. He chopped down the grape vines that were growing on the block and over half of the citrus trees as well as several strategically placed shade trees. He complained the next summer that the back of the house, which faced west, was so hot in the summer. He also chopped down almost all of the ornamental conifer trees that were growing around the house. He was not a gardener, I would say more like an garden destroyer.

I have cut down two trees on the other side of the property. The neighbour that side did not like them so I paid to have a beautiful jacaranda and a Japanese pepper removed. He said they were making a mess, dropping flowers onto his garden. My son was not happy when I had the Japanese pepper removed because the '28s', the green and yellow native parrots would sit in the tree eating the berries when it was in flower. Some people just do not like trees, they say they are messy. I say it is humans who are the messy ones, not trees.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am very sorry that your sister had such a nasty experience with her neighbour chopping her trees down. I had a neighbour once who leaned across the fence with a chain saw and lopped the top of one of my trees. My son saw him and told him to stop or he would call the cops. He then tried to convince my son that the beautiful lemon scented gum was drying and he would cut it down for us. My son told him that the lemon scented gum was OK and not dying. It has a scraggly growth pattern. The neighbour insisted the tree was in poor shape. My son told him to drive into Kings Park and see the lemon scented gums then and he would see that our tree was healthy. I told him that if he cut any more of my trees I would personally take his chain saw to some of his appendages. No more trees chopped down. This was the neighbour who borrowed a friend's chain saw and went a little berserk with it. He chopped down the grape vines that were growing on the block and over half of the citrus trees as well as several strategically placed shade trees. He complained the next summer that the back of the house, which faced west, was so hot in the summer. He also chopped down almost all of the ornamental conifer trees that were growing around the house. He was not a gardener, I would say more like an garden destroyer.
> 
> I have cut down two trees on the other side of the property. The neighbour that side did not like them so I paid to have a beautiful jacaranda and a Japanese pepper removed. He said they were making a mess, dropping flowers onto his garden. My son was not happy when I had the Japanese pepper removed because the '28s', the green and yellow native parrots would sit in the tree eating the berries when it was in flower. Some people just do not like trees, they say they are messy. I say it is humans who are the messy ones, not trees.


I have a neighbor like that. She finally stopped harassing us about our trees and plants (wanted us to cut down a 6 foot holly bush with inch long thorns because somebody could "hide in it and jump out at me" ) when she realized that every time she said something, I planted 3 more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This is probably a really stupid question, but couldn't your sister and bil halted the work? I'm pretty sure I'd have called the police or somehow managed to get the cutting stopped until the facts were confirmed. What an awful neighbor!!


They had gotten up late, and most of the trees were already down. They ran out in their PJs, but the cutters wouldn't stop until their boss told them to. So if the police had come, it would have been too late, anyway.

The irony is that Hugh only lived with his "view" a year or two, then moved out. They really were awful neighbors. I had a problem with their daughter, too, but not about this.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: If it had been me, the battle would have started with the first buzz of a chain saw. No lawyer and the damages are less.


I wish you'd been there. Sis is not as courageous as you are.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am very sorry that your sister had such a nasty experience with her neighbour chopping her trees down. I had a neighbour once who leaned across the fence with a chain saw and lopped the top of one of my trees. My son saw him and told him to stop or he would call the cops. He then tried to convince my son that the beautiful lemon scented gum was drying and he would cut it down for us. My son told him that the lemon scented gum was OK and not dying. It has a scraggly growth pattern. The neighbour insisted the tree was in poor shape. My son told him to drive into Kings Park and see the lemon scented gums then and he would see that our tree was healthy. I told him that if he cut any more of my trees I would personally take his chain saw to some of his appendages. No more trees chopped down. This was the neighbour who borrowed a friend's chain saw and went a little berserk with it. He chopped down the grape vines that were growing on the block and over half of the citrus trees as well as several strategically placed shade trees. He complained the next summer that the back of the house, which faced west, was so hot in the summer. He also chopped down almost all of the ornamental conifer trees that were growing around the house. He was not a gardener, I would say more like an garden destroyer.
> 
> I have cut down two trees on the other side of the property. The neighbour that side did not like them so I paid to have a beautiful jacaranda and a Japanese pepper removed. He said they were making a mess, dropping flowers onto his garden. My son was not happy when I had the Japanese pepper removed because the '28s', the green and yellow native parrots would sit in the tree eating the berries when it was in flower. Some people just do not like trees, they say they are messy. I say it is humans who are the messy ones, not trees.


The guy seemed to have a psychological problem with trees, if he insisted on cutting them down wherever they grew. What I meant was he was probably certifiably insane.

As are people who don't want birds in the trees, or blossoms dropping onto their gardens. I bet these neighbors had neat, manicured gardens.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I have a neighbor like that. She finally stopped harassing us about our trees and plants (wanted us to cut down a 6 foot holly bush with inch long thorns because somebody could "hide in it and jump out at me" ) when she realized that every time she said something, I planted 3 more.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


She was one who was delighted when we got hit by hurricane Hugo. It took down the 2 huge pines in her back yard that she couldn't afford to have taken down. She actually wanted to take up the whole yard and have it cemented over. Thank goodness she couldn't afford that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Best wishes to all. Good news indeed.



jbandsma said:


> News on the triplets. All 3 girls are now breathing completely on their own, even Grace who had been on a ventilator.
> 
> Before birth there was concern that Grace was hydrocephalic and that the septum pellucidum was missing. Now that they can examine her better they find the sp is there but thin, with a good chance of developing better and that the enlarged ventricles have actually decreased in size.
> 
> Totally good news all the way around.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Karverr's opened "My Story" thread asking for prayers for his daughter, disowned sinner that she is, on Feb. 6. He's already run, but I found the many comments heartening. I think the tide has turned. You may want to look.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Best wishes to all. Good news indeed.


I seem to have skipped some posts but I am delighted that Our Little Gracie is a toughie and doing so much better.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True story from AZ. Sun City (Retirement Community) raised a ruckus a few years ago because the firemen were jogging and kicking up stones. Anally retentive much? And one would think you'd want the paramedics in top condition especially in a senior community.



jbandsma said:


> She was one who was delighted when we got hit by hurricane Hugo. It took down the 2 huge pines in her back yard that she couldn't afford to have taken down. She actually wanted to take up the whole yard and have it cemented over. Thank goodness she couldn't afford that.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Karverr's opened "My Story" thread asking for prayers for his daughter, disowned sinner that she is, on Feb. 6. He's already run, but I found the many comments heartening. I think the tide has turned. You may want to look.


Gee, that guy totally disturbs me. Why is he reopening his story after a year? Is he looking for a pardon? Won't get it from me.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Best wishes to all. Good news indeed.


When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry. I think someone just read it and started commenting.

Disturbs me too. I do think majority attitudes are changing though and that pleases me.



SQM said:


> Gee, that guy totally disturbs me. Why is he reopening his story after a year? Is he looking for a pardon? Won't get it from me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Judyjudyjudy - keep the pics coming for those of us who are not grands. They are all cutie rooties.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll never tire of baby pictures. Keep em coming. Looks like help is ready and willing. Save strength and get lots of rest for when they all come home.



jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


Love seeing the photos of the girls. They are coming along great. We will not tire of seeing more photos. :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> She was one who was delighted when we got hit by hurricane Hugo. It took down the 2 huge pines in her back yard that she couldn't afford to have taken down. She actually wanted to take up the whole yard and have it cemented over. Thank goodness she couldn't afford that.


People like that should not live in areas where there are yards and trees. If they want to live in a cell block like environment move there and leave us who like our greenery alone.

I had a friend who had a dairy farm in a nearby rural area. Some neighbors sold their farm to a developer who built overpriced underconstructed McMansions. The new people then went to the town board to complain that it smelled and was noisy where they live. The judge said the equivalent of "Duh, you moved to a rustic setting. The smells and the animal noises come with the territory."


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


The pictures are lovely. So happy for the family that the girls are thriving, and especially that Grace's health is not as fragile as first thought. May all our prayers continue to be heard and heeded. And if you don't believe in prayer, we push good karma.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jbandsma
thank you for the pictures of the babies. Love Grace's little smile. They are all adorable.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> People like that should not live in areas where there are yards and trees. If they want to live in a cell block like environment move there and leave us who like our greenery alone.
> 
> I had a friend who had a dairy farm in a nearby rural area. Some neighbors sold their farm to a developer who built overpriced underconstructed McMansions. The new people then went to the town board to complain that it smelled and was noisy where they live. The judge said the equivalent of "Duh, you moved to a rustic setting. The smells and the animal noises come with the territory."


Similar to the people who bought a house opposite the freight railway line in West Midland and then started to campaign to have the railway line moved. Their argument, the real estate guy did not tell them that the freight trains used the line as well as the passenger trains. They also said the amount of traffic on the line had increased since they bought the house. Well the railway line has been there for over 100 years and of course the number of trains will increase over the years. They bought their house in that position because it was cheaper than in other suburbs, and they should have done their homework before they bought the house.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: If it had been me, the battle would have started with the first buzz of a chain saw. No lawyer and the damages are less.


My mother once did the "Woodsman, spare this tree!!" del when some gardening service was neatening up the flora around our apartment building. They were about to cut down a sapling that had a bird's net in it. She stepped in and made them stop. My mother is one of the nicest people you cold ever meet and when she gets seriously upset about something she gets results!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


I don't think anyone is going to get tired of pictures of the triplets, and how wonderful it is to hear that Grace is in better shape than was thought.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Count me in for as many baby pics as possible! My heart melts when I see babies. They look so well and content jbandsma.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I agree with the others. I love seeing pictures of the babies! They're so sweet and precious. Have I missed a post about Grace's condition not being as bad as they'd thought? I've tried to read back a bit, but I can't find it. Oh, I hope so!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jbandsma
> thank you for the pictures of the babies. Love Grace's little smile. They are all adorable.


The are all looking so much better. I Pray for Grace and I am so pleased that things are not as worrisome for her as first thought. Please keep on with the pictures. They are beautiful.

I know that KFN is waiting for her girls to be born. I hope that everything goes well for them and that there is nothing but good news with both families. prayers are with them all.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I am not trying to reopen discussion, but I've found a source that most of you consider reliable. I want people to understand that pharmaceutical companies and the doctors and scientists who work for them, are not above lying and cheating.

The federal government is suing Merck for falsifying study data and misrepresenting the efficacy of the MMR vaccine.  Anyway, just because the mainstream says something, doesn't make it so.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with the others. I love seeing pictures of the babies! They're so sweet and precious. Have I missed a post about Grace's condition not being as bad as they'd thought? I've tried to read back a bit, but I can't find it. Oh, I hope so!


The thought before she was born was that the membrane between the two halves of the brain was missing and the ventricles were actually larger than they should have been. At birth they found the membrane is there, just very thin and the ventricles, while still enlarged, had come down in size.

BUT, then they found the other condition that , at a minimum, means that she will never have any hair...head or body...and may mean that she will be blind, deaf or a combination but will not show up until she's older.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> The are all looking so much better. I Pray for Grace and I am so pleased that things are not as worrisome for her as first thought. Please keep on with the pictures. They are beautiful.
> 
> I know that KFN is waiting for her girls to be born. I hope that everything goes well for them and that there is nothing but good news with both families. prayers are with them all.


So far, so good! 17 weeks. I thought that the doctor had said they would deliver the babies at 36 weeks, but I was mistaken. It is 34 weeks, we're halfway there. But boy, is she miserable.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> The thought before she was born was that the membrane between the two halves of the brain was missing and the ventricles were actually larger than they should have been. At birth they found the membrane is there, just very thin and the ventricles, while still enlarged, had come down in size.
> 
> BUT, then they found the other condition that means she will, at a minimum, mean that she will never have any hair...head or body...and may mean that she will be blind, deaf or a combination but will not show up until she's older.


Thanks, that's what I thought. I was hoping that they'd had more good news.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> She was one who was delighted when we got hit by hurricane Hugo. It took down the 2 huge pines in her back yard that she couldn't afford to have taken down. She actually wanted to take up the whole yard and have it cemented over. Thank goodness she couldn't afford that.


There's something very sad about that: someone living among growing things who can't tolerate them but is apparently unable to move elsewhere.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


No complaints here. They are so beautiful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds just like my tiny Grandma, a sweet lady with a smile and a bun until an animal was threatened.



MaidInBedlam said:


> My mother once did the "Woodsman, spare this tree!!" del when some gardening service was neatening up the flora around our apartment building. They were about to cut down a sapling that had a bird's net in it. She stepped in and made them stop. My mother is one of the nicest people you cold ever meet and when she gets seriously upset about something she gets results!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am not trying to reopen discussion, but I've found a source that most of you consider reliable. I want people to understand that pharmaceutical companies and the doctors and scientists who work for them, are not above lying and cheating.
> 
> The federal government is suing Merck for falsifying study data and misrepresenting the efficacy of the MMR vaccine. Anyway, just because the mainstream says something, doesn't make it so.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html


Merck has been found doing that before. But I nearly forgot, from today's NYTimes:

*The Dangers of Vaccine Denial *
Nicholas Kristof

IN a few backward parts of the world, extremists resist universal childhood vaccinations. The Taliban in tribal areas of Pakistan. Boko Haram militants in Northern Nigeria.

Oh, yes, one more: Some politicians in the United States.

Senator Rand Paul  a doctor!  told CNBC that he had delayed his own childrens immunizations and cited many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.

After an uproar, Paul walked back his remarks and tweeted a photo of himself getting a Hepatitis A vaccination. After that irresponsible scaremongering, Id say he deserves to get shots daily for a decade. With really long needles.

Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey weighed in as well, suggesting that vaccinations are partly a matter of family choice  before later seeming to retreat as well. Paul and Christie are Republicans, but public health illiteracy is bipartisan: Vaccination rates are particularly low in some liberal Democratic enclaves in California.

At the Waldorf Early Childhood Center in Santa Monica, Calif., 68 percent of the children had personal belief exemptions to avoid vaccination requirements, according to The Hollywood Reporter (the school declined to comment). That suggests that kids in some wealthy areas are as well vaccinated as children in, say, Somalia.

President Obama made ambiguous remarks in 2008 that also seemed to suggest that the science is inconclusive about a link between vaccines and autism. And Hillary Rodham Clinton suggested the same thing that year. (Since then, both have emphasized strong support for vaccines.)

Lets call this out as the nonsense it is. If were going to denounce the Taliban for blocking polio vaccinations, we should be just as quick to stand up to health illiteracy in our midst.

First, a word on vaccines: They have revolutionized public health.

Can you name the discoverer of the smallpox vaccine? Probably not: Edward Jenner is little known today. He lived roughly when Napoleon did, and (by my back-of-envelope calculations) he managed before he died to save many millions more lives than Napoleon cost in his wars over the same period.

All told, up to the present, Jenners vaccine appears to have saved more than half a billion lives since 1800, notes Dr. D.A. Henderson, who led the effort to eradicate smallpox. Jenner should be counted as one of the great heroes of the modern world, yet he is forgotten while everybody knows of Napoleon. Thats emblematic of the way vaccines get short shrift.

In reporting on poverty worldwide, Ive seen how much vaccines improve human well-being. I understand how troglodytes in the Taliban or Boko Haram can be suspicious of vaccines, but politicians here in affluent, well-educated America? Moms and dads in Santa Monica?

Granted, for a time, it was plausible to wonder about a possible link between vaccines and autism, based on a 1998 article in The Lancet, the British medical journal. But that report was quickly discredited by at least 13 studies, and it was retracted in 2010. The author has been stripped of his medical license.

In Britain, for example, researchers found no change in the rate of autism diagnosis after the 1987 introduction of the M.M.R. vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella, and M.M.R. vaccination rates were similar for autistic children and for others. Likewise, studies in California and Atlanta found no correlation between autism rates and M.M.R. vaccinations. Japan suspended the M.M.R. vaccine because of health concerns, yet a careful study found that autism continued to rise.

Dr. Philip J. Landrigan, the chairman of the department of preventive medicine at the Mount Sinai medical school, says that there may be environmental factors linked to autism, but these relate to endocrine disrupting chemicals in consumer products, not to vaccines.

Rather than worry about a vaccine-autism connection that has been proven not to exist, parents should be banding together and writing their elected officials to insist that chemicals be properly tested for toxicity to children before they are allowed to enter the American market, Dr. Landrigan told me. The Europeans have passed such legislation. We should, too.

Yet American parents remain fixated on vaccines in ways that endanger children. According to the World Health Organization, the measles vaccination rate in 2013 stood at 91 percent in the United States  lower than in Zimbabwe or Bangladesh.

Senator Paul and Governor Christie seemed, initially at least, sympathetic to a personal choice argument that parents should be allowed to endanger their children in some circumstances. But thats not the issue here.

The point of immunization isnt just to protect your own child, but also to protect others. Especially those like Rylee Beck, a 5-year-old girl in Orange, Calif., who is fighting leukemia and cant be vaccinated. To stay safe, she depends on others getting vaccinated and creating herd immunity to keep the disease at bay.

Rylee is in pre-K, and its a scary thing sending her there every day, her mother, Melissa Beck, told me. In December, the family took Rylee to Disneyland and then was terrified when a measles outbreak infected visitors to the park at that time.

It just scared us to death, Melissa Beck said. We were just holding our breath, hoping nothing was going to come out of it. Fortunately, Rylee was not infected.

Its not just cancer patients who cant be immunized, but also infants, those with vaccine allergies, and people with medical conditions that leave them immunocompromised. And a small proportion of people get the vaccine but never develop immunity, so they, too, depend on others to get vaccinated.

Thus refusing to vaccinate your children is not personal choice but public irresponsibility. You no more have the right to risk others by failing to vaccinate than you do by sending your child to school with a hunting knife. Vaccination isnt a private choice but a civic obligation.

Melissa Beck says that other parents are universally kind and helpful when they see Rylee, frail and sometimes without hair, and learn that she is fighting cancer. Shes sure that other parents arent deliberately putting children like Rylee at risk; they just dont know better.

Its a matter of life and death for these kids, Melissa said. Maybe that would change these parents minds.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Congrats on the triplets, jbs!!! They are adorable! Looks like Grace came through better than expected! I love their names


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

There is a well-financed anti-vaccination movement. I thought it was more of an individual decision type of thing.

Happy Birthday to Our One and Only Wombat who is playing coy about her age.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

This link is an actual "60 Minutes" interview, where then director of the CDC admitted that they KNEW that the first swine flu vaccine caused neurological damage. But they lied to the public and marketed it as safe and necessary. They also lied to the public about which celebrities received the vaccine but didnt. Again, just because the CDC says something, doesn't make it so.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This link is an actual "60 Minutes" interview, where then director of the CDC admitted that they KNEW that the first swine flu vaccine caused neurological damage. But they lied to the public and marketed it as safe and necessary. They also lied to the public about which celebrities received the vaccine but didnt. Again, just because the CDC says something, doesn't make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Merck has been found doing that before. But I nearly forgot, from today's NYTimes:
> 
> *The Dangers of Vaccine Denial *
> Nicholas Kristof
> ...


Perhaps those politicians and affluent, well educated moms and dad's don't trust what they're told but instead, do their own research. It's a known fact that politicians and government agencies lie to us.

I feel bad for Rylee's mom. If I were her, I'd homeschooling her until she had recovered. BUT, I also feel sorry for those moms whose kids were killed or maimed by vaccines. It does happen! That's why our government set up the Vaccine Injury Fund.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> So much for "not trying to reopen the subject"


My intent was to comment on the fact that they lie to us. I really didn't want to get into the whole " we should or we shouldn't" thing. But I suppose it was inevitable because some people just cannot accept that the experts lie. They refuse to consider information from anyone but the very corporations and agencies who've lied in the past. I'm just proving that they lie!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> There is a well-financed anti-vaccination movement. I thought it was more of an individual decision type of thing.
> 
> Happy Birthday to Our One and Only Wombat who is playing coy about her age.


Well financed anti-vaccination movement? Seriously? Financed by whom? It's the pro-vaccination movement that is well financed! By both corporate interests and the government. Who benefits by lying?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Happy Birthday, Wombat! I hope it's a good one!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombat! Is it your birthday?????
HAPPY BIRTHDAY and good wishes for you. Have a fantastic day!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Can we just say that vaccines don't work for some kids, but for most they do the trick and get on with other stuff???


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Perhaps those politicians and affluent, well educated moms and dad's don't trust what they're told but instead, do their own research. It's a known fact that politicians and government agencies lie to us.
> 
> I feel bad for Rylee's mom. If I were her, I'd homeschooling her until she had recovered. BUT, I also feel sorry for those moms whose kids were killed or maimed by vaccines. It does happen! That's why our government set up the Vaccine Injury Fund.


I was under the impression that the subject was stopped. You were the one who said you were not going to continue with it. Oh well, I guess you didn't mean it.

Better if you say *you believe * rather than KNOWit is a well known fact that Politicians and 
Government agencies lie to us.

I believe that vaccinations save hundreds of lives and people who make statements and say they KNOW something when it has been proved the opposite are doing a disservice to their country and their chldren.

I don't believe the Powers that be are lying to us about the necessities of vaccinations.

We will never agree in a million years. ]My life experiences would be enough to convince me but also the proof and statements from well known Medical experts, and my Country's history of vaccination success.

This is the last I will discuss it . It is that last I will post about it as I was under the impression that was the agreement. We have flogged it to death and I know I am right and you think you are right.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Merck has been found doing that before. But I nearly forgot, from today's NYTimes:
> 
> *The Dangers of Vaccine Denial *
> Nicholas Kristof
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Is anyone watching the Grammy Awards?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Happy Birthday, Wombat! I hope it's a good one!


Was/is KFN and thank you!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wombat! Is it your birthday?????
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY and good wishes for you. Have a fantastic day!!


Thank you Brat!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is anyone watching the Grammy Awards?


I am and know no one. But Sam Smith sounds swell.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Count me in for as many baby pics as possible! My heart melts when I see babies. They look so well and content jbandsma.


Happy birthday, Wombat.

I've been saving this for you.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Happy birthday, Wombat.
> 
> I've been saving this for you.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: The old 'pooping out the cubes' wag! Just what I needed as a tribute to a birthday! Thanks PP!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Happy birthday, Wombat.
> 
> I've been saving this for you.


Gee. Not exactly the nicest of b'day wishes. Shouldn't the wombat be wearing a birthday hat?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am and know no one. But Sam Smith sounds swell.


You didn't see Tom Jones?? Madonna is always predictable in her "Spank Me Daddy" outfits. Paul Mc Cartney is supposed to perform tonite. He is the only reason that I am watching


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Gee. Not exactly the nicest of b'day wishes. Shouldn't the wombat be wearing a birthday hat?


Well, there's a momentary look of bliss in there, isn't there?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You didn't see Tom Jones?? Madonna is always predictable in her "Spank Me Daddy" outfits. Paul Mc Cartney is supposed to perform tonite. he is the only reason that I am watching


Okay I will continue watching sort of. Tom Jones still sounds great. I was into Sesame Street when Madonna was hot. Will wait for PMc. But I rather be reading.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Well, there's a momentary look of bliss in there, isn't there?


Funny funny.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I was under the impression that the subject was stopped. You were the one who said you were not going to continue with it. Oh well, I guess you didn't mean it.
> 
> Better if you say *you believe * rather than KNOWit is a well known fact that Politicians and
> Government agencies lie to us.
> ...


Obviously, you didn't look at the links I posted. I don't "think" they lie. I know they lie. If you'd watch the "60 Minutes" interview, or looked at the lawsuit filed against Merck, you'd know that too. But you don't want to know that they lie, because you trust them. When I see and hear them lie, I no longer trust them. That's the big difference between us. If I know they lied in the past, how can I believe them in the present?

I was purposely avoiding getting into opinions. Our opinions will never come together. But this is pretty strong evidence of the lies.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Was/is KFN and thank you!


Good! What time is it there?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

On Grammys, I just saw The Great Annie Lennox. Wow and wow again. Who else remembers her?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> On Grammys, I just saw The Great Annie Lennox. Wow and wow again. Who else remembers her?


Gee whiz! Do we have to have spoiler alerts? We don't get the show until 8, and it's not even 7 yet!
Of course everyone knows AnnieL. Even the old folks like me!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good! What time is it there?


I do. She was lead singer of the Eurythmics, right?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Gee whiz! Do we have to have spoiler alerts? We don't get the show until 8, and it's not even 7 yet!
> Of course everyone knows AnnieL. Even the old folks like me!


Ahh, but we are not revealing any winners or losers


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Gee whiz! Do we have to have spoiler alerts? We don't get the show until 8, and it's not even 7 yet!
> Of course everyone knows AnnieL. Even the old folks like me!


I forget about time zones. Sorry CQ. I thought we see the same show at the same time.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I forget about time zones. Sorry CQ. I thought we see the same show at the same time.


Okay, Cookie, I will say no more about the Grammy's except that you are in for a treat. A really famous guy is coming on to do a duet with a younger famous chickie-wickie.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I forget about time zones. Sorry CQ. I thought we see the same show at the same time.


It's OK, just teasing.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

This has nothing to do with anything, but every time someone talks about using Cubics knitting needles I think of Wombat poop.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> This has nothing to do with anything, but every time someone talks about using Cubics knitting needles I think of Wombat poop.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Well, there's a momentary look of bliss in there, isn't there?


I knew you would take it in good spirit (which I hope you had your fill of for your birthday).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> On Grammys, I just saw The Great Annie Lennox. Wow and wow again. Who else remembers her?


I remember her, and she was great. I don't like her latest album, however.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, Cookie, I will say no more about the Grammy's except that you are in for a treat. A really famous guy is coming on to do a duet with a younger famous chickie-wickie.


I'm not watching, but I bet it's Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga. Or else two people I've never heard of.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Was/is KFN and thank you!


Sorry I missed your birthday, but better a day late than never. Happy birthday for yesterday 8th February. I do not always check the birthdays. I have been to busy following the clowns in the house on the hill. It is now 11.07 am and I have not looked to see the outcome of this mornings meeting.

Just checked, the leadership spill failed. Tony Rabbit's head will swell to ten times now. He survived because the members of his party are afraid of him, afraid of what he will do. He says he was the Australian population behind him, but only one third of Australians who were polled stated that he was the preferred Prime Minister. Oh well, we will see what next he will come up with, how many more 'Captain 's picks' he comes up with. More hardships ahead for the working families, the poor, the needy. The vote was 39 for the spill and 61 against, so he does not have the total support of his party, over 35% of his colleagues do not support him as leader. But Australia is watching you Tony, and the next election is due the end of next year.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I remember her, and she was great. I don't like her latest album, however.


That last sentence made you sound cool.

Just saw Gaga with Tony Bennett. Gaga has a great voice. Didn't she go to Sacred Heart and Juilliard?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> This has nothing to do with anything, but every time someone talks about using Cubics knitting needles I think of Wombat poop.


That has something to do with everything. You've just made it impossible for me to read ads for those needles without giggling.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Was/is KFN and thank you!


HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Wombat! I hope you have had and are still having a great birthday! and many more!

Nice to be able to wish you a great birthday across the oceans and miles!!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good! What time is it there?


3.25 pm. Gorgeous sunny day here. We've had a dismal summer. :-(


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> This has nothing to do with anything, but every time someone talks about using Cubics knitting needles I think of Wombat poop.


Not you too? :shock:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I knew you would take it in good spirit (which I hope you had your fill of for your birthday).


 :XD: Yes, I enjoyed a snifter of port! Rather pleasant it was.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Wombat! I hope you have had and are still having a great birthday! and many more!
> 
> Nice to be able to wish you a great birthday across the oceans and miles!!


Thank you Designer! It's great isn't it, communication between global citizens at the mere wisp of the fingers? Ah, progress.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Merck has been found doing that before. But I nearly forgot, from today's NYTimes:
> 
> *The Dangers of Vaccine Denial *
> Nicholas Kristof
> ...


Case closed on this topic. Please no more.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This link is an actual "60 Minutes" interview, where then director of the CDC admitted that they KNEW that the first swine flu vaccine caused neurological damage. But they lied to the public and marketed it as safe and necessary. They also lied to the public about which celebrities received the vaccine but didnt. Again, just because the CDC says something, doesn't make it so.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombat, you know where to drop the cubes.



Poor Purl said:


> Happy birthday, Wombat.
> 
> I've been saving this for you.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> 3.25 pm. Gorgeous sunny day here. We've had a dismal summer. :-(


Dear Birthday Girl, I would take your dismal summer complete with high temperatures and winds in place for the glazed streets we are dealing with today. And what we have is nothing compared to Boston.

Marching on to your next birthday next year, have a great year filled with joy, no knots in the yarn, interchangeable needles that stay together, and lovely completed projects.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great Knitter's Blessing, Marilyn. Fair breezes to all from the Southwest.



MarilynKnits said:


> Dear Birthday Girl, I would take your dismal summer complete with high temperatures and winds in place for the glazed streets we are dealing with today. And what we have is nothing compared to Boston.
> 
> Marching on to your next birthday next year, have a great year filled with joy, no knots in the yarn, interchangeable needles that stay together, and lovely completed projects.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Case closed on this topic. Please no more.


Gee, I'm sorry. I thought it was a well-written, interesting piece.

From now on, there should be a list of topics not to post on. Some people may not be in the know.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> When you all get tired of pictures, let me know.  Pictures taken 2/5 My sister was very pleased that Natalie finished her bottle.


What beautiful babies and such a happy Grandma. And Grace is smiling. Sweet.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> What beautiful babies and such a happy Grandma. And Grace is smiling. Sweet.


Now, now...you know what our mothers always said; "that's not a smile, that's just gas".

Of course, we know better, don't we?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Now, now...you know what our mothers always said; "that's not a smile, that's just gas".
> 
> Of course, we know better, don't we?


I am sure she is laying there thinking, "Oh, I am in control here, this is going to be fun."


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry I missed your birthday, but better a day late than never. Happy birthday for yesterday 8th February. I do not always check the birthdays. I have been to busy following the clowns in the house on the hill. It is now 11.07 am and I have not looked to see the outcome of this mornings meeting.
> 
> Just checked, the leadership spill failed. Tony Rabbit's head will swell to ten times now. He survived because the members of his party are afraid of him, afraid of what he will do. He says he was the Australian population behind him, but only one third of Australians who were polled stated that he was the preferred Prime Minister. Oh well, we will see what next he will come up with, how many more 'Captain 's picks' he comes up with. More hardships ahead for the working families, the poor, the needy. The vote was 39 for the spill and 61 against, so he does not have the total support of his party, over 35% of his colleagues do not support him as leader. But Australia is watching you Tony, and the next election is due the end of next year.


Thanks Eve.

What worries me is that the PM is now saying that good governance commences now! :shock: What on earth has he been up to until now? The man clearly has an over inflated ego and poor to non existent communication skills. I don't necessarily see his colleagues being afraid of him as such, they'd be more afraid of the Liberal Party going the way of the Labor Party with the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd circus scenario. That would mean an election disaster for sure.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Have a good laugh.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/07/1362941/-Bill-Maher-asks-a-favor-of-Republicans-slamming-Sarah-Palin?detail=email


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Dear Birthday Girl, I would take your dismal summer complete with high temperatures and winds in place for the glazed streets we are dealing with today. And what we have is nothing compared to Boston.
> 
> Marching on to your next birthday next year, have a great year filled with joy, no knots in the yarn, interchangeable needles that stay together, and lovely completed projects.


Thank you Marilyn! Lovely sentiments to begin my 39th and a 1/2 year of life! Actually, I'm experiencing a frenzy of interest in knitting at the mo. which sees me glued to the internet searching for patterns and yarns. I've got 3 WIPs going and that feeling of impatience which makes me yearn to start several more. Bliss!

I saw on the news late last night, the plight of the north east of the States. I was most interested in the snow-melting machines out and about in Boston which melt an astonishing amount of snow each hour and the other devices being used to shift the snow banks which they say are literally taking up more space than the city can deal with. I love snow but I can't imagine living with the volume of snow being experienced in the U.S. right now. People seem to take it well in their stride. Hats off to them.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thanks Eve.
> 
> What worries me is that the PM is now saying that good governance commences now! :shock: What on earth has he been up to until now? The man clearly has an over inflated ego and poor to non existent communication skills. I don't necessarily see his colleagues being afraid of him as such, they'd be more afraid of the Liberal Party going the way of the Labor Party with the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd circus scenario. That would mean an election disaster for sure.


He sounds like an ego brother of Chris Christie, whose foray into International relationships, his trip to England, was a disaster.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wombat, you know where to drop the cubes.


A well rehearsed specialty of mine dame! :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> He sounds like an ego brother of Chris Christie, whose foray into International relationships, his trip to England, was a disaster.


Yes, some people, such as these two, just haven't got the finesse to be politicians. It's always been my belief that people aspiring to become public citizens must possess a genuine desire to serve and have ambition to handle themselves in a statesman-like manner. I think this is possible but it takes a certain kind of person, and a rare type of person at that.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thanks Eve.
> 
> What worries me is that the PM is now saying that good governance commences now! :shock: What on earth has he been up to until now? The man clearly has an over inflated ego and poor to non existent communication skills. I don't necessarily see his colleagues being afraid of him as such, they'd be more afraid of the Liberal Party going the way of the Labor Party with the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd circus scenario. That would mean an election disaster for sure.


Did you see the 7.30 report last night when the interviewer said to Tony, "We had one Tony Abbot when he was in opposition, we had another Tony Abbot before today and we are now seeing a third Tony Abbot. Who exactly are you and how many different Tony Abbots are there, or words to that effect. Tony Rabbit then went into his usual spiel about the mess that Labor had left, etc etc . No matter how many times he was brought back to the topic he refused to give a straight answer, he just reverted into his anti Labor rant. But as the pundits have stated, he has been given a warning, all eyes are on him and the next slip will come. He keeps saying that the Australian voters elected him, well they actually elected the Liberal National Party coalition to form Government and the Liberal Party elected him as their leader. We do not elect the PM as an individual, the PM is elected by his party, and he can be removed by is party. He still does not understand that he is very unpopular with the majority of Australian voters. He would not give an answer when questioned if he would step aside, for the good of the party before the next election, and let another leader establish himself before the election. I think he should be reminded of what happened to his hero, John Howard, when he would not step down and give Peter Costello the reins - he lost his seat at the election. Watch out Tony it could also happen to you.

My sister raised a good point. We seldom see his wife, we see his daughters but not his wife. When we do see her she does not look very happy. I do not think I would like to be married to him, I think he would be very one eyed and dictatorial. My son in law likes him, says he likes his policies, but then my son in law is also a Mormon and can have some strange ideas at times. He fancies himself as a business man, which he is not, and he says business men should vote Liberal. I do not discuss politics or religion with my son in law. The oldest grandson is showing signs of rebellion, in a quiet way. He turned 18 last week and flatly refuses to go to church. He has not been to church for over 6 months and his father refuses to discuss the matter with him, he just tells Josh he is wrong. So much for all those plans son in law had for sending Josh on his two year Mormon mission when he turned 20. Josh said last night, "Nan, you call yourself an enlightened Catholic, well I am an enlightened Mormon - but don't tell dad that because he will explode".

One other thing, what do you think of Peta Credlin? Do you think she wields too much power over the PM and the Cabinet? She is not an elected member of Parliament but she seems to have more power than some elected members. I have heard rumours about a tryst between Tony and Peta and there could be some truth in the rumours, perhaps that is why Tony's wife does not look happy.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes, some people, such as these two, just haven't got the finesse to be politicians. It's always been my belief that people aspiring to become public citizens must possess a genuine desire to serve and have ambition to handle themselves in a statesman-like manner. I think this is possible but it takes a certain kind of person, and a rare type of person at that.


Yes, you are correct, we do not have any 'statesmen ' in politics at the moment. You may not have like old Pig Iron Bob but he was a statesman and handled himself with dignity, Tony Rabbit does not have this quality. Malcolm Fraser may not have been popular but he had a dignity whilst he was in office. Gough Whitlam had a dignity and to a degree so did John Howard.

We over here in the West have the clown Emperor, Collin Barnett, who is having to backtrack on many aspects of his desire to cut the number of Metropolitan Local Councils from 30 to 7. At least that drunken fool, Troy Buswell has gone.

The upcoming NSW elections should be interesting.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Can't get away from the crazies even when playing a game. (Which I do from time to time.)

Name of the game is Lost Lands....totally appropriate since they made the "heroine" look like Sarah Palin.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I apologize. I just realized I confused your article with another. I didn't read it thoroughly.



Poor Purl said:


> Gee, I'm sorry. I thought it was a well-written, interesting piece.
> 
> From now on, there should be a list of topics not to post on. Some people may not be in the know.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Have a good laugh.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/07/1362941/-Bill-Maher-asks-a-favor-of-Republicans-slamming-Sarah-Palin?detail=email


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


What must she think now that her own have turned against her?

Sarah Palin? THINK? He jests.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Can't get away from the crazies even when playing a game. (Which I do from time to time.)
> 
> Name of the game is Lost Lands....totally appropriate since they made the "heroine" look like Sarah Palin.


Let's make ourselves happier and say the heroine looks like Tina Fey.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Did you see the 7.30 report last night when the interviewer said to Tony, "We had one Tony Abbot when he was in opposition, we had another Tony Abbot before today and we are now seeing a third Tony Abbot. Who exactly are you and how many different Tony Abbots are there, or words to that effect. Tony Rabbit then went into his usual spiel about the mess that Labor had left, etc etc . No matter how many times he was brought back to the topic he refused to give a straight answer, he just reverted into his anti Labor rant. But as the pundits have stated, he has been given a warning, all eyes are on him and the next slip will come. He keeps saying that the Australian voters elected him, well they actually elected the Liberal National Party coalition to form Government and the Liberal Party elected him as their leader. We do not elect the PM as an individual, the PM is elected by his party, and he can be removed by is party. He still does not understand that he is very unpopular with the majority of Australian voters. He would not give an answer when questioned if he would step aside, for the good of the party before the next election, and let another leader establish himself before the election. I think he should be reminded of what happened to his hero, John Howard, when he would not step down and give Peter Costello the reins - he lost his seat at the election. Watch out Tony it could also happen to you.
> 
> My sister raised a good point. We seldom see his wife, we see his daughters but not his wife. When we do see her she does not look very happy. I do not think I would like to be married to him, I think he would be very one eyed and dictatorial. My son in law likes him, says he likes his policies, but then my son in law is also a Mormon and can have some strange ideas at times. He fancies himself as a business man, which he is not, and he says business men should vote Liberal. I do not discuss politics or religion with my son in law. The oldest grandson is showing signs of rebellion, in a quiet way. He turned 18 last week and flatly refuses to go to church. He has not been to church for over 6 months and his father refuses to discuss the matter with him, he just tells Josh he is wrong. So much for all those plans son in law had for sending Josh on his two year Mormon mission when he turned 20. Josh said last night, "Nan, you call yourself an enlightened Catholic, well I am an enlightened Mormon - but don't tell dad that because he will explode".
> 
> One other thing, what do you think of Peta Credlin? Do you think she wields too much power over the PM and the Cabinet? She is not an elected member of Parliament but she seems to have more power than some elected members. I have heard rumours about a tryst between Tony and Peta and there could be some truth in the rumours, perhaps that is why Tony's wife does not look happy.


I didn't watch the 7.30 Report but the fact that Abbott can't answer the 'who are you?' question is all over the news today. I can't quite pinpoint the issue with this man. Would arrogance suffice? I think he's dug himself a hole from which he'll never get out and it's only a matter of time before he'll be given his marching orders.

Regarding Peta Credlin, I haven't caught up on why she's getting so much flack. I've been meaning to google her and will shortly. If she is wielding power over the PM then she should get the boot too because she'd be one of the reasons he's in such dire straits.

Abbott and his wife were highly visible over the weekend and if he is having a fling with his chief of staff, that would explain dragging her out. Sorry for sounding disrespectful, they are both very good christian people but power corrupts and this may turn out to be the PMs downfall. Poor Margy!

I'm glad your grandson is spreading his wings and taking his destiny into his own hands. I don't have a problem with children being introduced to religion but parents need to understand that they have to decide for themselves if their children want to pursue that path. Good on him!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, you are correct, we do not have any 'statesmen ' in politics at the moment. You may not have like old Pig Iron Bob but he was a statesman and handled himself with dignity, Tony Rabbit does not have this quality. Malcolm Fraser may not have been popular but he had a dignity whilst he was in office. Gough Whitlam had a dignity and to a degree so did John Howard.
> 
> We over here in the West have the clown Emperor, Collin Barnett, who is having to backtrack on many aspects of his desire to cut the number of Metropolitan Local Councils from 30 to 7. At least that drunken fool, Troy Buswell has gone.
> 
> The upcoming NSW elections should be interesting.


I agree with you. I am looking forward to the NSW election. If Labor wins, we'll know the outcome of the Federal Election at the end of 2016.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Okay, I have been doing some browsing around the site tonight.
Did you know that according to a D&P denizen that burkas are worn by women because Muslim men can't control their sexual urges? Let's not research the burka, let's just come up with something this stupid and post it!
Religion has nothing at all to do with it...........
Oy Vey!! 
On a serious note, most women who wear them live in deserts. Can you imagine how beautiful and young their skin must look? No moles of wrinkles from the sun to deal with.
In some Islam sects they are required to wear them. To other Islamic women it is a choice whether or not to wear one. 
It really doesn't have anything to Muslim men not being able to keep their
winkies in check.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, I have been doing some browsing around the site tonight.
> Did you know that according to a D&P denizen that burkas are worn by women because Muslim men can't control their sexual urges? Let's not research the burka, let's just come up with something this stupid and post it!
> Religion has nothing at all to do with it...........
> Oy Vey!! And they let this woman in the voting booth!


Nuns wear habits because priests can't control their sexual urges?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Nuns wear habits because priests can't control their sexual urges?


After looking at some of the nuns that I had, a priest could become impotent! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, I have been doing some browsing around the site tonight.
> Did you know that according to a D&P denizen that burkas are worn by women because Muslim men can't control their sexual urges? Let's not research the burka, let's just come up with something this stupid and post it!
> Religion has nothing at all to do with it...........
> Oy Vey!! And they let this woman in the voting booth!


OK something stupid. Now the Burka has a lot going for it.

You do not have to worry about being seen in the same outfit twice, everyone is wearing the same outfit, basic head to toe black.

You do not have to worry if the colours you are wearing are not really your colours, everything is covered by the Burka.

You do not have to worry about wearing yesterday's fashions, the Burka never dates.

You do not have to worry about the bumps and curves in the wrong places as the Burka covers a multitude of overeating sins.

You do not have to worry if your clothes are not clean and freshly ironed, who sees them.

You do not have to worry about putting on make up, who sees your face anyway. And if you are true to the Burka peope cannot see your eyes either.

No bad hair days either.

If you shoplift or do anything else naughty, how are they going to identify you, all Burka wears are identical, apart from height differences.

Think of all the money you are saving by not buying new clothes. More money to spend on yarn.

Ouch, I have just received a clout over the head from a cousin. Yes, she is a devout Muslim and wears a Burka. We have the same great, great, great grandfather but we call each other cousins.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

And cross dressers will never be outed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's reprehensible what is happening to Jews in Europe. I saw a gentleman interviewed a few days ago in Paris. He said that so many Jews are leaving for Israel, not feeling safe in Europe. It's appalling and very reminiscent of pre WW11.


Does its seem like we are going back in time? This thing with the Jews in Europe is very disturbing as well as the acts of racism resurfacing here in the USA like the Civil Rights Act never happened.

More news from good old Ferguson , MO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/missouri-debtors-prison-s_n_6648642.html


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Nuns wear habits because priests can't control their sexual urges?


Or because that was the dress code of the day when the Virgin Mary was alive and the nuns call themselves Sister Mary xxxxxx. They wore the habit in memory of the Virgin Mary. The nuns gave up the habit in the 1960s after Vatican 11, but Pope Pius XII began to raise questions about nuns' habits in the 1950s. Pope Pius XII began to raise questions about nuns' habits. He was concerned about the long flowing robes being unhygienic and was also worried about the time spent in laundering them. He thought that the time spent in laundering their habits detracted from the time they spent in prayer. He was the first Pope to urge the nuns to modernise their dress and their outlook on life


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Must be. I was thinking the same thing. Maybe they should have burkas for altar boys. Of course they do wear long vestments....? Maybe they're on to something.



jbandsma said:


> Nuns wear habits because priests can't control their sexual urges?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

A burka means never having to shave your legs or armpits.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Protests are not in vain. People everywhere should not let this issue die. I have a feeling the problems are deeper than we dream.

Speaking of Civil Rights, the USA has no business telling other countries what to do when they are in such disarray. A true, all-encompassing Civil Rights Act needs to be passed by a wide, bipartisan majority. IMHO



BrattyPatty said:


> Does its seem like we are going back in time? This thing with the Jews in Europe is very disturbing as well as the acts of racism resurfacing here in the USA like the Civil Rights Act never happened.
> 
> More news from good old Ferguson , MO.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/09/missouri-debtors-prison-s_n_6648642.html


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One of my main gripes about the Roman Catholic Church (I spent much of my youth memorizing the Baltimore Catechism so I think I've earned a right to an opinion or two) is the way the power is so against women. Nuns must change their habits, but priests are still running around in dresses. Women can't be priests. And on and on.



EveMCooke said:


> Or because that was the dress code of the day when the Virgin Mary was alive and the nuns call themselves Sister Mary xxxxxx. They wore the habit in memory of the Virgin Mary. The nuns gave up the habit in the 1960s after Vatican 11, but Pope Pius XII began to raise questions about nuns' habits in the 1950s. Pope Pius XII began to raise questions about nuns' habits. He was concerned about the long flowing robes being unhygienic and was also worried about the time spent in laundering them. He thought that the time spent in laundering their habits detracted from the time they spent in prayer. He was the first Pope to urge the nuns to modernise their dress and their outlook on life


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now there's an advantage. Great thinking, jbandsma.



jbandsma said:


> A burka means never having to shave your legs or armpits.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> One of my main gripes about the Roman Catholic Church (I spent much of my youth memorizing the Baltimore Catechism so I think I've earned a right to an opinion or two) is the way the power is so against women. Nuns must change their habits, but priests are still running around in dresses. Women can't be priests. And on and on.


Educated for 10 years in a convent school, knew how to recite the catechism backwards, also knew the responses to the Latin mass automatically. Learn the answers to the catechism and earn brownie points from the priest and nuns, simple really so why did the other girls have such difficulty in understanding why I knew so much.

I still like the De Profundis, especially when recited in Latin. No I cannot speak Latin.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I had three years of Latin, and I can't speak it either. I will say it is a big help in vocabulary building. I still like the emphasis on helping the less fortunate. Of course I've found that there are as many things I don't like. That is the rub.



EveMCooke said:


> Educated for 10 years in a convent school, knew how to recite the catechism backwards, also knew the responses to the Latin mass automatically. Learn the answers to the catechism and earn brownie points from the priest and nuns, simple really so why did the other girls have such difficulty in understanding why I knew so much.
> 
> I still like the De Profundis, especially when recited in Latin. No I cannot speak Latin.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Nuns wear habits because priests can't control their sexual urges?


Nuns would have to dress up like young boys to give priest a challenge to controlling their sexual urges. :twisted:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> One of my main gripes about the Roman Catholic Church (I spent much of my youth memorizing the Baltimore Catechism so I think I've earned a right to an opinion or two) is the way the power is so against women. Nuns must change their habits, but priests are still running around in dresses. Women can't be priests. And on and on.


Well, we have our local nonsense as you can see:

"A San Francisco Catholic priest defended a controversial decision to only allow boys to serve as altar servers in his parish earlier this week.

Rev. Joseph Illo, who became the pastor of the Star of the Sea parish last year, made a statement on Monday explaining his decision.

At the risk of generalizing, I suspect young men serving with young women might just distract them from the sacrifice of the Mass, and perhaps even from a priestly vocation, Illo said.

Star of the Sea is the only parish in San Francisco that does not allow girls to perform the duties of altar service.

Illo said he decided to bar girls from becoming altar servers for two reasons. First, he said he thinks boys lose interest in the service when girls work with them because they usually "do a better job."

The second reason Illo said he barred altar girls is because he thinks altar service emphasizes parish service to young boys as a feeder program to the priesthood.

If the Catholic Church ordained women, altar girls would make sense, but the Catholic priesthood is a male charism, he said. Nothing awakens a desire for the priesthood like service at the altar among the brotherhood of young men.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, I have been doing some browsing around the site tonight.
> Did you know that according to a D&P denizen that burkas are worn by women because Muslim men can't control their sexual urges? Let's not research the burka, let's just come up with something this stupid and post it!
> Religion has nothing at all to do with it...........
> Oy Vey!!
> ...


Sorry to have to say that the Denims are correct. Ultra Orthodox Jewish women also keep themselves covered in modest clothes and are separate from men in the synagogue so as not to stir up sexual feelings and distract the men from their prayers. It is very ME and springs from patriarchal religions.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Sorry to have to say that the Denims are correct. Ultra Orthodox Jewish women also keep themselves covered in modest clothes and are separate from men in the synagogue so as not to stir up sexual feelings and distract the men from their prayers. It is very ME and springs from patriarchal religions.


How about the men just learn to control themselves. Now isn't that a novel idea.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> How about the men just learn to control themselves. Now isn't that a novel idea.


I must remind you that these are patriarchal religions so it is the woman who is the temptress. It kills me to see a muslim woman in her burka while her husband is wearing cut-offs. But under the burkas are regular street clothes and the women are wearing make-up and are pretty much like all other women underneath.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> How about the men just learn to control themselves. Now isn't that a novel idea.


Before that can happen anywhere, we teach girls not to get raped but we don't teach boys not to rape. We teach boys that sex is their 'right' but we teach girls that sex is not to be engaged in.

Nothing will change unless this does.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

When I worked at a non profit here in S F one of the clients was a Muslim woman who chose to wear a burka because she felt uncomfortable by the ogling and objectifying looks and comments by men on the street. She was a lovely youngish woman and had lived here in the states for three years. So I think many men all over the world have difficulty curbing their "sexual appetites".


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> When I worked at a non profit here in S F one of the clients was a Muslim woman who chose to wear a burka because she felt uncomfortable by the ogling and objectifying looks and comments by men on the street. She was a lovely youngish woman and had lived here in the states for three years. So I think many men all over the world have difficulty curbing their "sexual appetites".


I have to laugh. Now that I am invisible and old, I miss all the stares I used to get from guys on the street. Oh well. I had my time in the sun. My salad days are over.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SQM said:


> I have to laugh. Now that I am invisible and old, I miss all the stares I used to get from guys on the street. Oh well. I had my time in the sun. My salad days are over.


Sadly some men do not stop at just looking (we all look) they leer, and make gestures and lewd comments. Western men do not necessarily have a high ground on this issue. I do not miss their actions at all, I see my older physical self as liberated from our objectifying culture that, for me, has gone way overboard in worshipping beauty and youth.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Sadly some men do not stop at just looking (we all look) they leer, and make gestures and lewd comments. Western men do not necessarily have a high ground on this issue. I do not miss their actions at all, I see my older physical self as liberated from our objectifying culture that, for me, has gone way overboard in worshipping beauty and youth.


I don't remember the lewd comments or the gestures when I was young. At this point I only get leers from men on rollators or with an attendant.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I don't remember the lewd comments or the gestures when I was young. At this point I only get leers from men on rollators or with an attendant.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Nuns would have to dress up like young boys to give priest a challenge to controlling their sexual urges. :twisted:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least he's identified himself sufficiently. What an a$$.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, we have our local nonsense as you can see:
> 
> "A San Francisco Catholic priest defended a controversial decision to only allow boys to serve as altar servers in his parish earlier this week.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> How about the men just learn to control themselves. Now isn't that a novel idea.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Novel unfortunately.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Believe it or not, awhile ago while Pat and I were shopping, he went to the other end of the grocery market to get something and an 'OLDER' 'gentleman came up behind me in his scooter and whistled! Told me I looked pretty darned good for my age. Then he said you aren't as old as I am but we.re both hanging in there pretty darned well. First time anyone whistled at me for MANY years so we had a chuckle and went our separate ways. Those days are gone forever and I actually don't miss them much.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have to laugh. Now that I am invisible and old, I miss all the stares I used to get from guys on the street. Oh well. I had my time in the sun. My salad days are over.


You should try coming to my senior center. We have some guys at the exercise classes who think they are real roues. All of us who are married make sure we wear our rings. One of the ladies was recently widowed from her second husband at age 90. She was 75 when they married after getting to know each other at the senior center. A hot babe is in the eye of the beholder.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> At least he's identified himself sufficiently. What an a$$.


I think he needs to be rapped on his knuckles with a ruler---at least. The Pope needs to have a talk with him. He's the wrong one to be in SF anyway because is so outraged by the gay marriage issue. He's no paragon of virtue, either. Last year he was pulled over for DUI in Southern California.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> How about the men just learn to control themselves. Now isn't that a novel idea.


NJG
you are expecting all too much from the weaker gender.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> At least he's identified himself sufficiently. What an a$$.


damemary
that he is but you see, he is from another world and does not know any better. Stupid are those who listen to a freak like that.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> I must remind you that these are patriarchal religions so it is the woman who is the temptress. It kills me to see a muslim woman in her burka while her husband is wearing cut-offs. But under the burkas are regular street clothes and the women are wearing make-up and are pretty much like all other women underneath.


I had one fellow member of my former spinning club say to me "But have you seen what those women wear under their Burqa, they wear very sexy underwear". I asked her how she knew this, did someone who wears a Burqa tell her this or did she go around disrobing Burqa wearers in order to carry out research into the topic? She just replied that everyone knew that. Well I didn't and up to that point the thought had never crossed my mind and to be honest I did not care what women wore under their Burqa. What does it matter what they wear under the Burqa, it is the woman that wears the garment that matters not the garment. Next time my cousin came into the library I related this story to her and she nearly doubled over with laughter and asked if she should take a few of her friend to this woman's house and do the dance of the seven veils. My cousin wears the Burqa and I call her my cousin as we have the same great, great, great grandfather, so we are cousins just several times removed, as they say. We always have a laugh when we have coffee together, just us girls and in girlie private, as she asks if I have filtered the coffee or should she leave her tea strainer in place whilst she drinks. We share the same warped sense of humour.

I said former spinning club because I have not renewed my membership this year for several reasons. I was not enjoying going any longer, we had a couple of new members who have very closed minds on race and religion. I felt like taking a placard along with me that read "Oh do shut up and go away and do some research on the topic", but then decided I would just not go anymore as they probably would only find articles that were skewed towards their point of view. But then a lot of us do that, so it could be a universal complaint - oneeyeditis I think it is called.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> (deleted first paragraph)
> 
> I said former spinning club because I have not renewed my membership this year for several reasons. I was not enjoying going any longer, we had a couple of new members who have very closed minds on race and religion. I felt like taking a placard along with me that read "Oh do shut up and go away and do some research on the topic", but then decided I would just not go anymore as they probably would only find articles that were skewed towards their point of view. But then a lot of us do that, so it could be a universal complaint - oneeyeditis I think it is called.


This is their loss. We are half a world apart geographically but there is kinship in thought processes. Wish I could be in a craft group of any sort with you!

As far as the burqua, I had read somewhere years ago of Saudi families going on holiday to Cannes or Nice, and when they get to the airport in France, the burqua comes off and the high fashion French wardrobe is sported. But that is the wealthy families. Hearsay, of course. I can't imagine the average Muslim wife getting a two week luxury vacation on the French Riviera.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Sadly some men do not stop at just looking (we all look) they leer, and make gestures and lewd comments. Western men do not necessarily have a high ground on this issue. I do not miss their actions at all, I see my older physical self as liberated from our objectifying culture that, for me, has gone way overboard in worshipping beauty and youth.


What I do not like is the older woman who still thinks she 'has it' and dresses as if she is a teenager. This especially applies to the women who may still be slim, no skinny. They may still have the long tanned legs, the small waist and the pumped up boobs topped by the dyed blonde hair, but parts of the body give them away. I was with my son when he visited his job service provider last week. You are supposed to go there dressed as you would if you were going for a job interview. Well one woman walked in, long blonde hair to her waist, skimpy top, torn shorts that were not really there, sun tanned and tanned was the word as her skin looked more like leather. I thought to my self, what job are you going for sweetie, street walker? No I did not say a bopeep but the guy sitting next to me said "C***** what a witch". I looked at him and he told me to look at her face, and I had to agree with him. At first glance her body seemed fine but her face really did look like the face of an old hag. Years of dieting and sunbaking and her ultra skinny face did not look attractive in any way, she really did look like one of those scary creatures from story books, but the way she was smiling at all the males in the room she seemed to believe she still had it. None of the men seemed to share her opinion. I was talking to the guy at the reception desk a little later and he said that they all called her 'the witch' because she not only looked like one but also acted like one. She could not hold a job because she expected all the men she worked with to make passes at her and when they ignored her she would complain to the management that she was being discriminated against because she was a woman.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> I don't remember the lewd comments or the gestures when I was young. At this point I only get leers from men on rollators or with an attendant.


Join a gym and not a ladies only gym. It is a great place to go and enjoy the parade of beef cake. You can sit there on the equipment pretending to do the exercises and whilst you are doing that you can admire and ogle the young, fit, attractive, sexy males and no one knows you are doing it. And if you are a regular then those spunky guys talk to you, they even remember your name. You can then spend some time in the sauna, spa and pool. A great place to chat to everyone because everyone is wearing bathers and I mean bathers meant for swimming not just parading up and down the waters edge. At the local rec centre all topics are discussed and all points of view are aired. Young males and females ask the advice of the older members on many subjects, ranging from how to get stains out of their best T shirt to what chat up lines really work with females. Yes, both males and females all chip in with replies to both questions. And you honestly thought I went there to do a few exercises. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Methinks he needs a personal audience with Pope Francis.



cookiequeen said:


> I think he needs to be rapped on his knuckles with a ruler---at least. The Pope needs to have a talk with him. He's the wrong one to be in SF anyway because is so outraged by the gay marriage issue. He's no paragon of virtue, either. Last year he was pulled over for DUI in Southern California.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, we have our local nonsense as you can see:
> 
> "A San Francisco Catholic priest defended a controversial decision to only allow boys to serve as altar servers in his parish earlier this week.
> 
> ...


And if they let women in the priesthood and allowed priests to marry they wouldn't have had the problem with pedophiles.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Believe it or not, awhile ago while Pat and I were shopping, he went to the other end of the grocery market to get something and an 'OLDER' 'gentleman came up behind me in his scooter and whistled! Told me I looked pretty darned good for my age. Then he said you aren't as old as I am but we.re both hanging in there pretty darned well. First time anyone whistled at me for MANY years so we had a chuckle and went our separate ways. Those days are gone forever and I actually don't miss them much.


Apparently not gone yet!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> And if they let women in the priesthood and allowed priests to marry they wouldn't have had the problem with pedophiles.


It would solve a lot of problems although not all, unfortunately.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

My favorite word for republicans has always been hypocrite. It is still true.

After Bragging About $1 Billion State Surplus, Governor Scott Walker Asks for Money from President Obama

Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/after-bragging-about-1-billion-state-surplus-governor-scott-walker-asks-for-money-from-president-obama/

Though I dislike the Republican party and conservative ideology in general, I think the thing that drives me the most insane about the whole bunch is how hypocritical they are. Especially when it comes to their hatred of the federal government. Im sure everyone reading this has met a conservative voter whose income, health care or both is largely provided by some kind of government program. You know, the people who hold signs that say things like, Get the Government OUT of my Medicare! Well, their politicians are no different because Republican politicians are a reflection of conservative voters. A great example of blatant hypocrisy has been displayed by Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and his request for aid from President Obama (you know  the federal government) as a propane shortage grips his state in the midst of another winter storm. Why is this hypocritical, you ask? Beyond the fact that a Republican governor is asking the federal government for help when Republicans are constantly talking about how they dont need the federal government (that is until they need help, which seems to be pretty often), Governor Walker just bragged about how his state has a $1 billion surplus. So why is the Wisconsin governor asking for help from the federal government when his state clearly has the funds to provide its own aid? Oh, I know, because Walker plans to give it [the surplus] back to the people by the way of tax cuts. Basically what Scott Walker is saying is that his state has a $1 billion surplus, but instead of using that money to provide aid for his own state during this propane shortage  hes going to ask the federal government to subsidize that aid so he can give people tax breaks. Tax cuts which I can almost guarantee heavily favor the rich. As most tax cuts seem to do. This is hypocrisy at its best. A small government Republican like Scott Walker bragging about the surplus he created, asking the federal government for help when Wisconsin could easily provide aid for itself without help from the federal government. All so he can cut taxes. Its not that Im against the federal government helping out the people of Wisconsin. I just find it incredibly hypocritical when Republicans constantly harp on the evils of the federal government (and even programs like FEMA), yet theyre some of the first people standing there with their hands out asking for help from the federal government whenever its convenient. It always reminds me of Rick Perry who ran for re-election in 2010 bragging about his states balanced budget  which was only kept balanced due to funds Texas received from the 2009 stimulus package. A stimulus package he often publicly denounced as big government that couldnt be tolerated. But it doesnt stop with Rick Perry. I cant even keep track of all the stories Ive seen come out over the years where these federal government hating conservative members of Congress sent letters to the federal government asking for funds to help their state or district. The truth of the matter is, Republicans absolutely love government  as long as its providing something they want. They only use this evil federal government rhetoric to manipulate voters they know are too ignorant to know any better.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> My favorite word for republicans has always been hypocrite. It is still true.
> 
> After Bragging About $1 Billion State Surplus, Governor Scott Walker Asks for Money from President Obama
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: So true


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> My favorite word for republicans has always been hypocrite. It is still true.
> 
> After Bragging About $1 Billion State Surplus, Governor Scott Walker Asks for Money from President Obama
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you NJG for these comments.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html

Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html
> 
> Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


I think you explained it perfectly. Then, too, don't forget the "hypocrite" thing.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html
> 
> Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


I wondered that too Marilyn. Fox tells lies all the time deliberately - hard to figure. I doubt he will be allowed back on the news on that station. From reading their announcement it sure doesn't look good. Makes me wonder.

If one is punished, all should be punished. but that isn't going to happen from the looks of things.

Fox is allowed to spread and instigate outright lies. interesting.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> If one is punished, all should be punished. but that isn't going to happen from the looks of things.


At least not until Rupert Murdoch kicks the bucket. Then there might be some hope.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html
> 
> Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


MarilynKnits
much less is expected from Faux Entertainment. Correction: nothing of value is expected from them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> This is their loss. We are half a world apart geographically but there is kinship in thought processes. Wish I could be in a craft group of any sort with you!
> 
> As far as the burqua, I had read somewhere years ago of Saudi families going on holiday to Cannes or Nice, and when they get to the airport in France, the burqua comes off and the high fashion French wardrobe is sported. But that is the wealthy families. Hearsay, of course. I can't imagine the average Muslim wife getting a two week luxury vacation on the French Riviera.


MarilynKnits
the information re. Saudis on the French Riviera is correct. You can also find religious professionals there without their holy garbs.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html
> 
> Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


Yes, like O'Reilly saying he had been in combat, when he never has. I would trust Brian Williams with my life before I would any of the idiots on Fox.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just watched Jon Stewart's comments about Brian Williams
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/jon-stewart-takes-on-the-brian-williams-scandal.html
> 
> Why is it nobody is questioning the liars on Faux News the same way? Perhaps because it had been thought Brian Williams was a real journalist in the Walter Cronkite Edward R. Murrow tradition and they all know Faux is infotainment propaganda and there would be too much to call out?


And we'll settle for this these days? I hope not.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> much less is expected from Faux Entertainment. Correction: nothing of value is expected from them.


Trouble is, they do damage by lying deliberately and maliciously rather than broadcast 'nothing of value.'


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I wondered that too Marilyn. Fox tells lies all the time deliberately - hard to figure. I doubt he will be allowed back on the news on that station. From reading their announcement it sure doesn't look good. Makes me wonder.
> 
> If one is punished, all should be punished. but that isn't going to happen from the looks of things.
> 
> Fox is allowed to spread and instigate outright lies. interesting.


It would take someone with integrity to do something about the lies on Fox. NBC evidently has that, but Rupert Murdoch does not. Like all the rest of those on the right, if a lie you tell furthers the agenda of the right, then just keep telling it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

They just keep getting more crazy. I sit here and read these things and find it hard to believe there are real people that believe this crap. I know there are, but are we hearing about them more these days. Did they use to just think these things and keep it to themselves and now they are expressing it? Do they not have enough to do to fill their day, and what about the people who vote for these idiots? It really scares me to think they could be in control of the whole country. Of course they don't say anything about the men looking at those in yoga pants, lets do something about those wearing them, cause they are to blame for the things people are thinking about when they see someone in yoga pants. I see a lot of things that I think people shouldn't wear, but is it their right to wear what they want. Maybe this guy would like to see all women in burqas. That should take care of his problem.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/11/1363770/-Montana-representative-wants-to-outlaw-yoga-pants-in-public?detail=email


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> They just keep getting more crazy. I sit here and read these things and find it hard to believe there are real people that believe this crap. I know there are, but are we hearing about them more these days. Did they use to just think these things and keep it to themselves and now they are expressing it? Do they not have enough to do to fill their day, and what about the people who vote for these idiots? It really scares me to think they could be in control of the whole country. Of course they don't say anything about the men looking at those in yoga pants, lets do something about those wearing them, cause they are to blame for the things people are thinking about when they see someone in yoga pants. I see a lot of things that I think people shouldn't wear, but is it their right to wear what they want. Maybe this guy would like to see all women in burqas. That should take care of his problem.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/11/1363770/-Montana-representative-wants-to-outlaw-yoga-pants-in-public?detail=email
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/11/1363770/-Montana-representative-wants-to-outlaw-yoga-pants-in-public?detail=email


Where is the emoticon for a face plant when you need it?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

As most of you know, Arizona has its share of wingnuts. Watch this little clip from Sylvia Allen, my very own state senator from my district:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/12/1363955/-Arizona-s-idiot-legislature-doesn-t-want-you-to-watch-their-idiocy?detail=email

The article also reports on some horribly disturbing measures being passed/considered by our governor, who campaigned on "open and transparent" government.

I have contacted the honorable senator, asking how the change to open meetings would benefit me. No answer, of course.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Where is the emoticon for a face plant when you need it?


I will definitely have to work on one.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> As most of you know, Arizona has its share of wingnuts. Watch this little clip from Sylvia Allen, my very own state senator from my district:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/12/1363955/-Arizona-s-idiot-legislature-doesn-t-want-you-to-watch-their-idiocy?detail=email
> 
> ...


Sunlight shining in the dark corners is the bane of cockroaches and rats.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> They just keep getting more crazy. I sit here and read these things and find it hard to believe there are real people that believe this crap. I know there are, but are we hearing about them more these days. Did they use to just think these things and keep it to themselves and now they are expressing it? Do they not have enough to do to fill their day, and what about the people who vote for these idiots? It really scares me to think they could be in control of the whole country. Of course they don't say anything about the men looking at those in yoga pants, lets do something about those wearing them, cause they are to blame for the things people are thinking about when they see someone in yoga pants. I see a lot of things that I think people shouldn't wear, but is it their right to wear what they want. Maybe this guy would like to see all women in burqas. That should take care of his problem.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/11/1363770/-Montana-representative-wants-to-outlaw-yoga-pants-in-public?detail=email


And maybe putting bags over the guys' heads would be a better answer. Or doing testosterone immunization shots to make them behave in a more civilized manner.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Great news.

Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


How sweet is that. She makes me smile.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> How sweet is that. She makes me smile.


I'm amazed...she's actually wearing one of the hats I made them.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


Lovely. Her hat is most becoming. Mr. Spock's blessing to all the small ones, "Live Long and Prosper" and in good health.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Are you sure Vivian is not really a doll? I am so happy that she is home. The chapeau is flawless. Good news about Natalie. How about Our Little Gracala? We are all rooting for her!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Are you sure Vivian is not really a doll? I am so happy that she is home. The chapeau is flawless. Good news about Natalie. How about Our Little Gracala? We are all rooting for her!


As soon as Pittsburgh's Children's Hospital has a bed for her, she'll be transferred. Lots more to find out about her conditions but PCH is the best place to do it.

Fingers crossed.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


Wonderful news. Hoping for the best for little Grace.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


Wonderful news. Vivian looks like a little lady in the hat. Waiting for the others, to see what they're wearing.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

She is so sweet. I think the hat you made is wonderful. 

I hope things go well for all three of those sweet babies.

Thoughts are with you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


What a precious picture of Vivian. Mom and Dad must be looking forward to the day when the three little beauties will all be home together.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


So special and may she wear your hat (which is gorgeous) in good health! Great news about all three wee ones.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Trouble is, they do damage by lying deliberately and maliciously rather than broadcast 'nothing of value.'


damemary
your are so very right. Just think what it must be like to work for a boss like Murdock. That would call for a steady appointment with a Psychiatrist, Psychologist and any other Shrinkster. The pay must be extraordinary for remaining in a job like that. I'd rather clean Toilets at the Hilton and keep a clean conscience. I do not like to be entertained by Nightmares.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> your are so very right. Just think what it must be like to work for a boss like Murdock. That would call for a steady appointment with a Psychiatrist, Psychologist and any other Shrinkster. The pay must be extraordinary for remaining in a job like that. I'd rather clean Toilets at the Hilton and keep a clean conscience. I do not like to be entertained by Nightmares.


What is sad is if they ever left Feaux Noise, who would take them seriously?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> your are so very right. Just think what it must be like to work for a boss like Murdock. That would call for a steady appointment with a Psychiatrist, Psychologist and any other Shrinkster. The pay must be extraordinary for remaining in a job like that. I'd rather clean Toilets at the Hilton and keep a clean conscience. I do not like to be entertained by Nightmares.


O'Reilly was a liar and nasty long before he ever got a spot on Fox...probably the reason they DID want him. What was it? Entertainment Tonight? Where he claimed to have won a Peabody award...but was never even nominated...and then tries to cover it up by saying "so I mixed up a Peabody with a Polk".


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> your are so very right. Just think what it must be like to work for a boss like Murdock. That would call for a steady appointment with a Psychiatrist, Psychologist and any other Shrinkster. The pay must be extraordinary for remaining in a job like that. I'd rather clean Toilets at the Hilton and keep a clean conscience. I do not like to be entertained by Nightmares.


Very clever post. Old Rupert invented nightmares.


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## Jasmati (Apr 14, 2014)

jbandsma said:


> O'Reilly was a liar and nasty long before he ever got a spot on Fox...probably the reason they DID want him. What was it? Entertainment Tonight? Where he claimed to have won a Peabody award...but was never even nominated...and then tries to cover it up by saying "so I mixed up a Peabody with a Polk".


O'Reilly never claimed that "he" won a Peabody.

First, everyone knows that the Peabody is not given to individuals, it is given to programs.

Second, he was discussing the show "Inside Edition" and did mistakenly say, and did soon thereafter correct, that the show won two Peabody awards when it actually won two Polks.

It was Al Franken who has distorted what really happened and he is the one who is dishonest!

Lying Liar- Fact Checking Al Franken
http://lyingliar.com/?p=18


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jasmati said:


> O'Reilly never claimed that "he" won a Peabody.
> 
> First, everyone knows that the Peabody is not given to individuals, it is given to programs.
> 
> ...


How do you know he _never_ said something or other, unless you have heard/read every word he's ever said? And if you have, you have too much free time. Go back to DP, tell them you've delivered their message, and put on your real name.

Please.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How do you know he _never_ said something or other, unless you have heard/read every word he's ever said? And if you have, you have too much free time. Go back to DP, tell them you've delivered their message, and put on your real name.
> 
> Please.


Does Jasmati rhyme with schmati?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Jasmati said:


> O'Reilly never claimed that "he" won a Peabody.
> 
> First, everyone knows that the Peabody is not given to individuals, it is given to programs.
> 
> ...


Just so I understand where you're coming from - are you saying O'Reilly does not distort facts and that he is a man of integrity?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I hope this really happens. Fox is so deserving. 

Paris City Council authorized Mayor Anne Hidalgo on Wednesday to sue U.S. broadcaster Fox News for reporting there are "no-go zones" in the French capital where non-Muslims and police fear to venture.

City officials voted to file a lawsuit at a French court for defamation regarding comments on Fox News and a map it broadcast with eight such so-called off-limits areas circled in red. The report came when Paris was on high alert after attacks by Islamic radicals last month.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

And I suppose this never happened, either?
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/oreilly/bill-oreilly-falafel-lawsuit-turns-ten-897562


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Just so I understand where you're coming from - are you saying O'Reilly does not distort facts and that he is a man of integrity?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> And I suppose this never happened, either?
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/oreilly/bill-oreilly-falafel-lawsuit-turns-ten-897562


Thank you for introducing us to a wonderful new source for the important stuff.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go get em Tiger.



DGreen said:


> As most of you know, Arizona has its share of wingnuts. Watch this little clip from Sylvia Allen, my very own state senator from my district:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/02/12/1363955/-Arizona-s-idiot-legislature-doesn-t-want-you-to-watch-their-idiocy?detail=email
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Much happiness to all. Adorable picture.



jbandsma said:


> Great news.
> 
> Vivian came home today. Natalie will come home on Saturday...on a monitor. Grace is waiting for a bed at Children's Hospital in Pgh.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Their minds are so weak from reporting nonsense that they don't care. Someday they'll look around and realize they can't hold their head up anymore.



BrattyPatty said:


> What is sad is if they ever left Feaux Noise, who would take them seriously?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've never heard of a Polk. Perhaps that's why I never confuse it with a Peabody. Mr. O'Reilly also seems to confuse himself with 1st Edition. Confusion reigns.



Jasmati said:


> O'Reilly never claimed that "he" won a Peabody.
> 
> First, everyone knows that the Peabody is not given to individuals, it is given to programs.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> And I suppose this never happened, either?
> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/oreilly/bill-oreilly-falafel-lawsuit-turns-ten-897562


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: ROLF


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How do you know he _never_ said something or other, unless you have heard/read every word he's ever said? And if you have, you have too much free time. Go back to DP, tell them you've delivered their message, and put on your real name.
> 
> Please.


Yes Gerslay. Don't take anyone for the fool that you are.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Jasmati said:


> O'Reilly never claimed that "he" won a Peabody.
> 
> First, everyone knows that the Peabody is not given to individuals, it is given to programs.
> 
> ...


But this is interesting

Bill O'Reilly has a checkered history with the Peabody Awards. For years, he claimed that his work on Inside Edition garnered two Peabodys, until he was outed by nemesis Al Franken as having confused the Polk Awards *(won after O'Reilly was no longer with Inside Edition)* with the more prestigious Peabodys.

http://crooksandliars.com/2008/06/27/who-needs-a-lousy-peabody-anyway-bill-oreilly-doesnt-really


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> But this is interesting
> 
> Bill O'Reilly has a checkered history with the Peabody Awards. For years, he claimed that his work on Inside Edition garnered two Peabodys, until he was outed by nemesis Al Franken as having confused the Polk Awards *(won after O'Reilly was no longer with Inside Edition)* with the more prestigious Peabodys.
> 
> http://crooksandliars.com/2008/06/27/who-needs-a-lousy-peabody-anyway-bill-oreilly-doesnt-really


EveMCooke
well, folks like the bunch at Faux News need employment as anyone else, what is so disturbing is that they get paid so much for the idiocy they put on the air. More disturbing is that some people believe that stuff. Crap I truly meant to type.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Much happiness to all. Adorable picture.


H


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Much happiness to all. Adorable picture.


How is your nephews wife dealing with sudden reality. It will be difficult and I don't see how she will be able to go back to work. Such a worry for your sister.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> How is your nephews wife dealing with sudden reality. It will be difficult and I don't see how she will be able to go back to work. Such a worry for your sister.


Still not dealing with it. Vivian came home and it's my sister doing the care taking. I don't know what's going to happen when she has to go home and go to work.

Natalie didn't go home yesterday after all. They decided to keep her until Monday. There's also a chance Grace might come home and be outpatient at PCH as it doesn't look like there's going to be a bed for her any time soon. I really don't know how Joy will handle that...a 80 mile round trip every other day with 3 newborns and a 1 year old (Tom definitely has to get back to full time work). You can bet her mother "won't have time" to help out.

Better news...Natalie and Vivian are now well over 4 pounds. Grace, for all her other problems, is way ahead of them in the gaining weight department at 5 1/2 lbs.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

The beard on the right of the first picture is Tom.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Still not dealing with it. Vivian came home and it's my sister doing the care taking. I don't know what's going to happen when she has to go home and go to work.
> 
> Natalie didn't go home yesterday after all. They decided to keep her until Monday. There's also a chance Grace might come home and be outpatient at PCH as it doesn't look like there's going to be a bed for her any time soon. I really don't know how Joy will handle that...a 80 mile round trip every other day with 3 newborns and a 1 year old (Tom definitely has to get back to full time work). You can bet her mother "won't have time" to help out.
> 
> Better news...Natalie and Vivian are now well over 4 pounds. Grace, for all her other problems, is way ahead of them in the gaining weight department at 5 1/2 lbs.


Adorable, Jbandsman!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gorgeous family, Judyjudyjudy. Additional help might be arranged thru their community or church. So glad to hear that the others are doing well and that Our Graceee is leading the pack.

Frankly, I would be overwhelmed too and probably in a catatonic state.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ThePeabody said:


> Besides, she's wrong. He specifically said that the show won the Peabody by claiming he won " the highest award in journalism, and you're going to denigrate it?".
> 
> He was referring to, and claiming to have won the Peabody, not the Polk.
> 
> ...


Welcome, The. You're right, unlike our visitor from the right.

Which Peabody are you? The award? The dance? The one of Mr. Peabody and the Mermaid (not on many people's top 100 lists, but very close to the top of mine)? The one with Sherman?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Still not dealing with it. Vivian came home and it's my sister doing the care taking. I don't know what's going to happen when she has to go home and go to work.
> 
> Natalie didn't go home yesterday after all. They decided to keep her until Monday. There's also a chance Grace might come home and be outpatient at PCH as it doesn't look like there's going to be a bed for her any time soon. I really don't know how Joy will handle that...a 80 mile round trip every other day with 3 newborns and a 1 year old (Tom definitely has to get back to full time work). You can bet her mother "won't have time" to help out.
> 
> Better news...Natalie and Vivian are now well over 4 pounds. Grace, for all her other problems, is way ahead of them in the gaining weight department at 5 1/2 lbs.


How beautiful they all are (maybe not Tom - it's hard to tell). I hope Joy can grow up fast, because that's the only way she's going to manage.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How beautiful they all are (maybe not Tom - it's hard to tell). I hope Joy can grow up fast, because that's the only way she's going to manage.


Definitely not Tom.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

It would be nice to have some community support, say a group of people on a volunteer basis would take turns going in every day to help out, either they take care of the babies or help with the other house work. There is no super Mom who can do it all, especially in this situation. One of my Dads cousins had triplets some years back and that is what they did. These little ones are beautiful, but will probably never be sleeping all at the same time. I remember the exhaustion with just one.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I wish I lived closer - I have them in my thoughts.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Good morning everyone! Well we have had a lovely weekend. 

On Saturday night we took our son and family to Cinderella the ballet which was extremely well done. Hayley never took her eyes off the stage and loved every moment of it. It was an excellent performance an the audience did't make a sound throughout the whole time. Then a standing ovation. It was a wonderful experience for our family. 

My son sat next to me and he was caught up with the ballet too. He laughed at the comedy and the dancing was wonderful. I heard him say to Gayle that they should buy Seasons Tickets! grin.

Hayley's eyes were the size of our 'loonie' (dollar) and she said to me that "she will have something to dream about for ages"

Then yesterday we drove north on the island and visted a couple more places that we haven't seen yet. each small town along the ocean has a mariner's walk or a board walk and always a park. They are all wonderful with different 
views. some are through Marinas and others are one long board walk with all the yachts moored there. We saw 3 seals playing and sat on a bench and watched them.

Coming from the Prairies the sea walks were all very interesting. There are lots of small ferry rides to islands close to the Eastern coast of Vancouver Island and we are going to take each one before the summer is over.

Today we are going down to Shawnigan lake which is an inner island lake with a beautiful town there. One of the best schools in Canada is there and it is a beautiful small town just north of Victoria. 

Our weather is lovely -- sunny, not too warm but each week we see nicer weather. The blossoms are in bloom (crabapple and cherry trees) all the crocuses in peeking through the ground. Tulips are up and leaves are budding on all the trees. Spring is certainly on its way. We look forward to exploring the island all the way up to Port Hardy where pat was stationed many years ago. I am glad I had my health issues in the winter and I am walking and doing very well. We walked the mile board walk yesterday so I am doing so much better I can't believe it. There is an exercise park (out doors not far from here and we walk around the track (finally made it 3/4 around - and then there are non motorized exercise machines which Pat works out on. I do the leg and feet exercises so I think it is paying off.

I thought of you all -those in Aussie where it is still so hot, and on the east coast where the storms are still so bad. And Calgary where my daughter is moving into her first home of her own this next week. My son is going back to help her move which pleases me a lot. They are very close and always have been.

We will likely have Hayley overn night as Gayle is flying to Australia and back so we will pick up Hayley from school and have her over night. Not sure whether it will be here or at their place. 

I am a bit nervous as I am going to start driving again. Pat drives us everywhere but I have decided to start again as the heart hospital is in Victoria - 90 minutes south of here and if by chance he needs to go in for any treatment I want to be able to drive there myself. I used to love driving but as he is home all the time he drives us. I need to feel that I am confident enough to get behind the wheel and not be stuck here with him down there if that happens. Idrove for years and enjoyed every moment. I took the car out last week and just drove around here. I had no trouble. the traffic here is very heavy because the Trans Canada and Island highways are the main roads north and south. I will branch out again tomorrow.

I hope you all had a nice Valentines day!

We will be heading out soon.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

I saw Margot Fonteyn dance Cinderella. One of her last performances. She was over 50 at the time and still could make you believe she was the young heroine. It was magic. I hope the children will have as fond memories as I have...for as long as I have...of that performance.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I saw Margot Fonteyn dance Cinderella. One of her last performances. She was over 50 at the time and still could make you believe she was the young heroine. It was magic. I hope the children will have as fond memories as I have...for as long as I have...of that performance.


I think Hayley was entranced. Margo Fonteyn - wow. You in the New York area are so lucky to have the theatre area there and the wonderful Ballets and shows. I envy you all. I guess I won't be seeing a Broadway Play although I have always wanted to go to New York and visit that amazing city.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah NY is great if you have a lot of money. 

I just spent the afternoon frogging a project. It is the sloth version of finishing a garment. Remind me not to try intarsia again with the seed stitch.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I think Hayley was entranced. Margo Fonteyn - wow. You in the New York area are so lucky to have the theatre area there and the wonderful Ballets and shows. I envy you all. I guess I won't be seeing a Broadway Play although I have always wanted to go to New York and visit that amazing city.


I'm not in NY...I'm in SC but when I saw Fonteyn it was in Hartford, CT.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I'm not in NY...I'm in SC but when I saw Fonteyn it was in Hartford, CT.


I apologise, most people from this part of the world think that all the wonderful shows etc are on Broadway!!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I apologise, most people from this part of the world think that all the wonderful shows etc are on Broadway!!


We get some good theater here. Takes some saving up to see anything but we've seen Cats twice and last year we saw Les Miserables. About a week before the movie came out. My husband bought the movie DVD and I wanted to throw up watching it.

Who was the idiot who thought Russell Crowe could sing? And in the scenes between Val Jean and Javert I kept waiting to see Wolverine's knives come out.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

It is so sad that there are so many people like this in our state and federal governments. What is going to happen this country and all our children. This almost brings me to tears when I think about the damage this idiot has done.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/gop-lawmaker-condemns-blacks-welfare-crazy-checks?cid=sm_fb_maddow


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> It is so sad that there are so many people like this in our state and federal governments. What is going to happen this country and all our children. This almost brings me to tears when I think about the damage this idiot has done.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/gop-lawmaker-condemns-blacks-welfare-crazy-checks?cid=sm_fb_maddow


I agree with you completely. Arizona leads the pack for wackos.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This is an article that was posted in our local paper today about Lindsay Souvannarath who is one of three people suspected of planning to carry out the attack Saturday at a Halifax, Nova Scotia, mall. She was a student for 4 years at Coe College here in Cedar Rapids. They are all around us, kind of scary.

http://thegazette.com/subject/news/blogs-reveal-former-coe-students-fixation-on-violence-20150216


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Peibody said:


> I've told DH that if we win the lottery I think I'd like to come and live in NYC for a year or two, to have had the experience.
> 
> But eventually I'd like to live in a quaint New England town or perhaps somewhere on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.


Well my Precious Ol' Pal.

Hopefully I will be living in the Chicago by the time your lottery ticket comes thru but you can visit me there.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Peibody said:


> I've told DH that if we win the lottery I think I'd like to come and live in NYC for a year or two, to have had the experience.
> 
> But eventually I'd like to live in a quaint New England town or perhaps somewhere on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.


Would be San Francisco (again) for me. I adore that city. Only one in the world that I'd even think of living in.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Earth quakes are increasing because of fracking. Now that there have been explosions because of train wrecks, the right will be saying, I told you so, we should be moving the oil by pipeline. I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Neither one is safe. Trains could be make safer, but it will take some time and money. Why wasn't it started years ago? Because big oil has every one of the decision makers in their pocket and they will always do what is economical and quickest for them, with no regard to our safety. Idiots.

http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/drilling-earthquakes-map?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=socialmedia


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> Earth quakes are increasing because of fracking. Now that there have been explosions because of train wrecks, the right will be saying, I told you so, we should be moving the oil by pipeline. I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Neither one is safe. Trains could be make safer, but it will take some time and money. Why wasn't it started years ago? Because big oil has every one of the decision makers in their pocket and they will always do what is economical and quickest for them, with no regard to our safety. Idiots.
> 
> http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/drilling-earthquakes-map?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=socialmedia


What a nice way to start my evening, Ms. G. Thanks for your post.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> What a nice way to start my evening, Ms. G. Thanks for your post.


Your welcome and here is something else. How about checking to see if you are in the blast zone or will be moving into it. This should help to make your evening. All this crap makes me so angry. I write Charlie and the pig castrater emails, knowing it will do no good. The republicans just find more ways everyday to irritate me.

http://explosive-crude-by-rail.org/


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Your welcome and here is something else. How about checking to see if you are in the blast zone or will be moving into it. This should help to make your evening. All this crap makes me so angry. I write Charlie and the pig castrater emails, knowing it will do no good. The republicans just find more ways everyday to irritate me.
> 
> http://explosive-crude-by-rail.org/


NJG, do you think that if they improved the tracks around this country that we would have less explosions? Putting "Band Aids" on them does not seem to do the trick. Maybe safer cars to transport the oil in?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> NJG, do you think that if they improved the tracks around this country that we would have less explosions? Putting "Band Aids" on them does not seem to do the trick. Maybe safer cars to transport the oil in?


I am sure the tracks are probably like the roads and bridges. There was also some talk about speed of these oil trains and definitely they need to improve the cars. Some of these care were never meant to carry oil. The rail cars were suppose to have been improved before this, but of course that money is is some big execs pocket as a bonus for outstanding work. No matter what job it is the top echelon has been putting more money in their pockets, paying those that do the work less and cutting corners where ever they can. The last pipeline that leaked had only been in use for a year and had never been inspected, because they had never hired anyone to do the inspection--said they didn't have qualified applicants. There had just been one inspector hired now after the leak. Not sure what leak that was, but a recent pipeline.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> Earth quakes are increasing because of fracking. Now that there have been explosions because of train wrecks, the right will be saying, I told you so, we should be moving the oil by pipeline. I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Neither one is safe. Trains could be make safer, but it will take some time and money. Why wasn't it started years ago? Because big oil has every one of the decision makers in their pocket and they will always do what is economical and quickest for them, with no regard to our safety. Idiots.
> 
> http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/drilling-earthquakes-map?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=socialmedia


If you succeed in getting in getting the oil transported by rail please let me know how you did it. I might try the same technique on our state Emperor and try to convince him NOT to ship sodium cyanide by road but to leave it on rail. Much safer on rail as the trains travel on their own little roads and have very little contact with other road users. I could use similar tactics to fight to keep our third tier rail lines open. The third tier go to the smaller towns and are mainly used for hauling the grain crops. The idiots in State Parliament cannot see the problems it will cause if all that grain is transported by road. How many extra big rigs would be on the road competing for space with small cars. Just count the number of waggons being hauled and divide by three because there would be three trailers behind every prime mover. I have counted the wagons because the line runs behind my property and I have counted well over 100 wagons, sometimes 150, so that would be a lot more big rigs on the roads, including some outer suburban roads.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> Your welcome and here is something else. How about checking to see if you are in the blast zone or will be moving into it. This should help to make your evening. All this crap makes me so angry. I write Charlie and the pig castrater emails, knowing it will do no good. The republicans just find more ways everyday to irritate me.
> 
> http://explosive-crude-by-rail.org/


Sent tongue in cheek. You send them emails? Can they actually read printed words? I thought they just read pictures; the pictures on the $$$$$s that is? Honestly, did no one explain how to get their attention and make them do your bidding? You just wave fistfulls of $$$s in their direction and hint that you will give the pretty pieces of paper to them if they do what you want them to do.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I get upset too. Let's see if we can find a way to have peace and joy in our lives. I don't want to waste it.



NJG said:


> Your welcome and here is something else. How about checking to see if you are in the blast zone or will be moving into it. This should help to make your evening. All this crap makes me so angry. I write Charlie and the pig castrater emails, knowing it will do no good. The republicans just find more ways everyday to irritate me.
> 
> http://explosive-crude-by-rail.org/


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I get upset too. Let's see if we can find a way to have peace and joy in our lives. I don't want to waste it.


I second that emotion.

I no longer can listen to the news. It is now affecting me viscerally.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> If you succeed in getting in getting the oil transported by rail please let me know how you did it. I might try the same technique on our state Emperor and try to convince him NOT to ship sodium cyanide by road but to leave it on rail. Much safer on rail as the trains travel on their own little roads and have very little contact with other road users. I could use similar tactics to fight to keep our third tier rail lines open. The third tier go to the smaller towns and are mainly used for hauling the grain crops. The idiots in State Parliament cannot see the problems it will cause if all that grain is transported by road. How many extra big rigs would be on the road competing for space with small cars. Just count the number of waggons being hauled and divide by three because there would be three trailers behind every prime mover. I have counted the wagons because the line runs behind my property and I have counted well over 100 wagons, sometimes 150, so that would be a lot more big rigs on the roads, including some outer suburban roads.


The problem with rail in the US is they are transporting it in rail cars that were never meant to carry crude oil so when they derail they are sure to explode. There has been talk about the improvement needed to make these cars safer, but that costs money, and if it eats into their profits, they won't do it. If congress were to set new regulations and safety standards, that would help, but then the big oil execs wouldn't give money to congress to buy them off and they want the money. Also that word regulation is a dirty word to republicans. They don't want to put restrictions on big business, because they can regulate themselves, and if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. I also heard last night that there are things in the oil that can be taken out before transportation to make it less volatile. They do this to the crude from Texas, but the big oil execs from North Dakota had a big a$$ meeting and decided they wouldn't spend the money to do this. It is just a vicious circle and we the "little people" will always loose.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I second that emotion.
> 
> I no longer can listen to the news. It is now affecting me viscerally.


I have made that decision, many times, to not listen to the news any more, but then I cave cause I have to know what is going on. I always watch Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz and try to avoid the rest. I get emails from Daily Kos with a lot of info about crazy people from the right, and boy, there are some crazy ones. I also get more info from FaceBook, so I guess when I say I say I won't watch, it's not really true.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I have not been watching much either. I have been knitting and sewing doll clothes for my GD. Sometimes it does one good to take a break from all of the chaos.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too. I find that I avoid it for a bit now and then until I feel ready to face it again.



NJG said:


> I have made that decision, many times, to not listen to the news any more, but then I cave cause I have to know what is going on. I always watch Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz and try to avoid the rest. I get emails from Daily Kos with a lot of info about crazy people from the right, and boy, there are some crazy ones. I also get more info from FaceBook, so I guess when I say I say I won't watch, it's not really true.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I have been knitting with size 2 and 3 needles for the last 2 weeks My next doll sweater calls for size 0. My hands are getting sore. Can't wait to start my cabled cowl which calls for size 13!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have been knitting with size 2 and 3 needles for the last 2 weeks My next doll sweater calls for size 0. My hands are getting sore. Can't wait to start my cabled cowl which calls for size 13!


You really are brave. I think the smallest my fingers can handle is a 6 or 7. Such dedication from a good grandma.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You really are brave. I think the smallest my fingers can handle is a 6 or 7. Such dedication from a good grandma.


I have frogged this project 6 times today. It is a simple tank bodice for an 18" doll dress. It is worked in seed stitch and should take about an hour.
I keep drifting off and when I look at my work, it is a rib stitch. I think I'll put the needles down for the night. K1 P1.......P1 K1


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have frogged this project 6 times today. It is a simple tank bodice for an 18" doll dress. It is worked in seed stitch and should take about an hour.
> I keep drifting off and when I look at my work, it is a rib stitch. I think I'll put the needles down for the night. K1 P1.......P1 K1


Work on an uneven number of stitches and always start a row with a K. Then it becomes sloth-like easy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Work on an uneven number of stitches and always start a row with a K. Then it becomes sloth-like easy.


Thanks SQ.
Nicky Epstein made a mistake in her pattern. I went online for the correct way to do seed stitch.
In her pattern she says "Over an even number of stitches, Row 1- K1P1
Row 2-P1K1. Repeat row 2 for pattern. I thought I was losing my knitting mojo! I will start fresh tomorrow. :0


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks SQ.
> Nicky Epstein made a mistake in her pattern. I went online for the correct way to do seed stitch.
> In her pattern she says "Over an even number of stitches, Row 1- K1P1
> Row 2-P1K1. Repeat row 2 for pattern. I thought I was losing my knitting mojo! I will start fresh tomorrow. :0


That is the conventional way but if you work on one less stitch or one more, you get the seed stitch without making that ribbing mistake. One stitch is meaningless - will affect nada.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> That is the conventional way but if you work on one less stitch or one more, you get the seed stitch without making that ribbing mistake. One stitch is meaningless - will affect nada.


I will try that! Thanks :-D


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I will try that! Thanks :-D


I always start with a purl when I am setting up a seed stitch and make sure I have an uneven number. then always knit the purl stitches and purl the knit stitches. It gets to be automatic once you get the feel of it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have frogged this project 6 times today. It is a simple tank bodice for an 18" doll dress. It is worked in seed stitch and should take about an hour.
> I keep drifting off and when I look at my work, it is a rib stitch. I think I'll put the needles down for the night. K1 P1.......P1 K1


I have been using baby yarn with a size 3 needle or DK with a 4 for the doll clothes I made recently. Our local preschool is having a fund raiser and a bunch of us made AG clothes for their silent auction.

Have you checked out Ladyfingers here on KP? She has some adorable AG doll clothes. I just finished the panties and want to make a tank top to go with them.

And I saw the new Nicky Epstein book which has some nice patterns, too.

Hope your pattern works out. Our group had fun with the project.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Want to knit one of those Chullo hats for DH for next winter. They, for the most part, are all done with bulky or chunky acrylic or wool yarn. DH shaves his head, so cotton is the only thing that doesn't scratch. Wool is scratchy too. Anyone have a really good conversion table for yarn change? I am not good at algebra either! If only I had known in Jr. High that I would one day need algebra, I wouldn't have dropped out of class after a day. Life's Lessons.
Thank you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I have been using baby yarn with a size 3 needle or DK with a 4 for the doll clothes I made recently. Our local preschool is having a fund raiser and a bunch of us made AG clothes for their silent auction.
> 
> Have you checked out Ladyfingers here on KP? She has some adorable AG doll clothes. I just finished the panties and want to make a tank top to go with them.
> 
> ...


I have seen Ladyfinger's patterns. They are very nice! 
I have finished Nicky Epstein's Coat of Many Colors w/ hat and purse/legwarmers. I guess 2's and 3's will help get my hands ready for the size 0's. :-D


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

These complete idiots keep showing their faces and opening their mouths.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/misogynist-blogger-make-rape-on-private-property-legal-so-women-can-have-learning-experiences/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm speechless, for once.



NJG said:


> These complete idiots keep showing their faces and opening their mouths.
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/misogynist-blogger-make-rape-on-private-property-legal-so-women-can-have-learning-experiences/


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm speechless, for once.


Now here is an answer for the idiot. I wish I could be there to watch.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/20/south.africa.female.condom/index.html


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Mother of Invention. Film at 11:00?



NJG said:


> Now here is an answer for the idiot. I wish I could be there to watch.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/20/south.africa.female.condom/index.html


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Well that just adds to a day that will live in memory as an "I don't ever want another one like that".

Started with a web client who wanted some pages up on a new ecommerce site. Just for his own products, the other people who sell through him can wait. Just need these few things up as soon as possible. Then I find out that "just a few things" runs to about 80 pages. Get the main one just about finished (from which I can cut and paste most of the rest) when the power goes out and guess what I didn't have a recent save of? Kept a partial...about 8 pages worth. I've been working since 7am and am not going to get anywhere near done tonight.

The icing on the cake? My husband put a sweet potato in the microwave. He's done that before. He's just never had one spark and start to smoke before.

A sweet potato almost ruined the microwave? Oy vey.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> Now here is an answer for the idiot. I wish I could be there to watch.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa/06/20/south.africa.female.condom/index.html


Doesn't penetrate the skin? What good is that? It should at least make him BLEEEEEEED!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Well that just adds to a day that will live in memory as an "I don't ever want another one like that".
> 
> Started with a web client who wanted some pages up on a new ecommerce site. Just for his own products, the other people who sell through him can wait. Just need these few things up as soon as possible. Then I find out that "just a few things" runs to about 80 pages. Get the main one just about finished (from which I can cut and paste most of the rest) when the power goes out and guess what I didn't have a recent save of? Kept a partial...about 8 pages worth. I've been working since 7am and am not going to get anywhere near done tonight.
> 
> ...


Gevalt! Hope tomorrow is a better one.

Did he know to poke some holes in the sweet potato for the steam to escape?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Gevalt! Hope tomorrow is a better one.
> 
> Did he know to poke some holes in the sweet potato for the steam to escape?


Oh yes. He does them like that all the time. But this definitely wasn't steam. Not with sparks and smoke.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

He didn't wrap it in foil, did he?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He didn't wrap it in foil, did he?


Nope.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Doesn't penetrate the skin? What good is that? It should at least make him BLEEEEEEED!


This reminds me of a movie from the 80's. I can't remember the title, but it was about a boy whose friends were talking about losing their virginity. One boy said "Not me. My mother said those things have teeth!"


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Judy

I have been thinking of the Babies. Are both home and has Grace been transfered to the Children's hospital. 

How are the parents coping with two tiny babies. I have been thinking of them today. I hope they are doing well. by the way I really liked the hat you made.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Judy
> 
> I have been thinking of the Babies. Are both home and has Grace been transfered to the Children's hospital.
> 
> How are the parents coping with two tiny babies. I have been thinking of them today. I hope they are doing well. by the way I really liked the hat you made.


Natalie and Vivian are home. It looks like Grace will be coming home, too. They don't see having a bed for her at Children's any time soon so they're going to work with her on an outpatient process. That's going to mean an 80 mile round trip at least 3 times a week. I don't think anyone's coping very well.

Thank you for the compliment on the hat. It was one of 12 that I made. Each one has a button on it and the flowers and bows are completely interchangeable.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Oh yes. He does them like that all the time. But this definitely wasn't steam. Not with sparks and smoke.


I had a potato do that once when I forgot to take the little sticker off that the grocery store puts on with the with the numbers on it for the person at the register.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> I had a potato do that once when I forgot to take the little sticker off that the grocery store puts on with the with the numbers on it for the person at the register.


Didn't check for that so it's a possibility. But if it was something that large, he should have noticed it. The sweet potato wasn't that big...maybe 3 to 4 inches long. Sort of baby sweet potatoes.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Natalie and Vivian are home. It looks like Grace will be coming home, too. They don't see having a bed for her at Children's any time soon so they're going to work with her on an outpatient process. That's going to mean an 80 mile round trip at least 3 times a week. I don't think anyone's coping very well.
> 
> Thank you for the compliment on the hat. It was one of 12 that I made. Each one has a button on it and the flowers and bows are completely interchangeable.


That is too bad. That's a lot of windshield time. Hopefully it won't be for too long. Will be wishing good thoughts and prayers for Grace.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Natalie and Vivian are home. It looks like Grace will be coming home, too. They don't see having a bed for her at Children's any time soon so they're going to work with her on an outpatient process. That's going to mean an 80 mile round trip at least 3 times a week. I don't think anyone's coping very well.
> 
> Thank you for the compliment on the hat. It was one of 12 that I made. Each one has a button on it and the flowers and bows are completely interchangeable.


I hope for the babies' sake they learn to cope and learn fast. The little sweet ones deserve the loving care they need.

Best wishes to all the family.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-320773-1.html

J is at it again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-320773-1.html
> 
> J is at it again.


What a ridiculous thread! Things must be too peaceful for her. If she has no problem making herself look like an ignorant bigot, then neither do I. She can keep trying to spread the hate, but looking at the comments sans the ones from her group of bigots, most think she's nuts.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What a ridiculous thread! Things must be too peaceful for her. If she has no problem making herself look like an ignorant bigot, then neither do I. She can keep trying to spread the hate, but looking at the comments sans the ones from her group of bigots, most think she's nuts.


I just posted and I think they don't accomplish what they wish to accomplish. People remember unbelievably nasty posts like this. I think they are turning people against themselves with statements like the first statement in her post-certainly many think this one is just unbelievable from what I gather.

How can all of them on the other thread accept these kind of posts and none speak up? They don't have to like the President but these types of posts say more about what they are than what the President is. The sad thing is that they have actually convinced themselves and each other that what they say is true. I just hope they keep on with these types of stupid statements and that thinking citizens don't want anyone with ideas like theirs to run the country or don't want to trust their country to people who parrot this type of crap about him.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I just posted and I think they don't accomplish what they wish to accomplish. People remember unbelievably nasty posts like this. I think they are turning people against themselves with statements like the first statement in her post-certainly many think this one is just unbelievable from what I gather.
> 
> How can all of them on the other thread accept these kind of posts and none speak up? They don't have to like the President but these types of posts say more about what they are than what the President is. The sad thing is that they have actually convinced themselves and each other that what they say is true. I just hope they keep on with these types of stupid statements and that thinking citizens don't want anyone with ideas like theirs to run the country or don't want to trust their country to people who parrot this type of crap about him.


They seem to find it impossible even to pretend they're civilized.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.

Oh, and if you haven't seen these:

http://thewhoot.com.au/whoot-news/crafty-corner/monster-pants

I want to make them.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

With matching hats.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


J,
these are adorable! You have to make them.  
Glad to hear everybody is home,


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok, pictures


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

More


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

They are so beautiful! Looks like one of them has a tasty elbow! They are Natalie,Vivian, and Grace right? 
You are so lucky to be their GM! Pictures are great!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> They are so beautiful! Looks like one of them has a tasty elbow! They are Natalie,Vivian, and Grace right?
> You are so lucky to be their GM!


I guess that's the order.  And I'm great aunt, not GM. (And glad not to be that close.)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I guess that's the order.  And I'm great aunt, not GM. (And glad not to be that close.)


oops!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


Make them. They are a riot. I like the one with its tongue hanging out and the big pom pom noses. Are you gonna use girly colors or go for the brights? Wish I could have a pair.

They are like living little dolls. Big Bro seems good natured. Keep posting. I could not figure out who is My Gracieeeee.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Make them. They are a riot. I like the one with its tongue hanging out and the big pom pom noses. Are you gonna use girly colors or go for the brights? Wish I could have a pair.
> 
> They are like living little dolls. Big Bro seems good natured. Keep posting. I could not figure out who is My Gracieeeee.


Grace is the bald one with the fat face...wearing the "little sister" jammies


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


Judy, we joke about Mom having eyes in the back of her head, but these pants take it to a whole new level! They are cute.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

The babies are cuties. Natalie looks as if she is ready for adventure.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I just posted and I think they don't accomplish what they wish to accomplish. People remember unbelievably nasty posts like this. I think they are turning people against themselves with statements like the first statement in her post-certainly many think this one is just unbelievable from what I gather.
> 
> How can all of them on the other thread accept these kind of posts and none speak up? They don't have to like the President but these types of posts say more about what they are than what the President is. The sad thing is that they have actually convinced themselves and each other that what they say is true. I just hope they keep on with these types of stupid statements and that thinking citizens don't want anyone with ideas like theirs to run the country or don't want to trust their country to people who parrot this type of crap about him.


They are just like the republicans in Washington. When one , like Giuliani or Steve King says crazy, off the wall things, no body has the common sense to speak up against it. You hear things like, "it's not the words I would have used or he can say what he believes. John McCain did correct the lady during the campaign in 08, but other than that they don't have the balls to say anything. That is one of the things I just said in an email to Grassley. In his letter to me he said "It was wrong that in order to improve the lot of one individual someone else must be made worse off." I asked him if he meant it was ok for the insurance companies to deny insurance to a child who had cancer because it was a pre-existing condition and the insurance company would be worse off if they covered that child. I asked if that was why he wanted to repeal the ACA. I am so sick of that man, I could puke.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


These are SO cute! Thanks for sharing this. I see myself knitting these in the future.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The babies are beautiful. Keep posting the pictures, they make me smile.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> These are SO cute! Thanks for sharing this. I see myself knitting these in the future.


My former neighbours daughter is having a baby in April. I might see if I can figure out a pair something like these. doubt I would put the pom pons on but possibly knit a circle or figure out something else. I would like a sweater to go with it. you could make 'nice ones' for a wee girl and a bit scarier for a boy. hmmmm

-
How are you doing Nebraska? How is your dil. It must be getting more and more difficult for her. Are you still looking after Max? You take care as this could be the beginning of a very long haul for all of you. I have you in my Prayers tell dil that a lot of people are pulling for her.

I hope your weather isn't bad. It is glorious here today. Flowers blooming, trees blossoming, sunny and bright and really a lovely day. Take care friend.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Babies are so cute! The pants are perfect for 3 little tykes!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The monster pants are adorable. Congratulations to all on the three new members of the family.



jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Keep those pictures coming. It's my sweet fix.



jbandsma said:


> Ok, pictures


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What's handsome Big Brother's name? A saint, no doubt.



jbandsma said:


> More


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I guess that's the order.  And I'm great aunt, not GM. (And glad not to be that close.)


Being far away will be the only way to get some sleep. Smart.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> My former neighbours daughter is having a baby in April. I might see if I can figure out a pair something like these. doubt I would put the pom pons on but possibly knit a circle or figure out something else. I would like a sweater to go with it. you could make 'nice ones' for a wee girl and a bit scarier for a boy. hmmmm
> 
> -
> How are you doing Nebraska? How is your dil. It must be getting more and more difficult for her. Are you still looking after Max? You take care as this could be the beginning of a very long haul for all of you. I have you in my Prayers tell dil that a lot of people are pulling for her.
> ...


We're all hanging in there. Dil is doing well. She's at 19 weeks and all is good. Doc had said she'd probably go on bed rest (possibly, hospital bed rest) at 20 wks, but she's doing so well, that she's still allowed to do a little, like going to family get togethers etc... No shopping or housework and she's to try and stay down as much as possible. I believe I'm making a difference. Things are getting a little easier as I get used to being so active again. The first couple of weeks were really hard, especially getting up at 6 am and taking care of Max. I've been cooking breakfasts and lunches in an effort to get dil to eat more. I'm also cleaning, doing laundry etc... I work a little, then play with Max. Then I work a little and then do a craft with him and repeat. It works out pretty well. I'm not getting as much done at home but my Hubby's helping out there. On Thursday, my son put it aptly, only 15 more doctor's appointments, which equates to 15 weeks. I can't wait!

I got to keep the latest ultrasound pics. Two of the babies pics turned out really well. They're 3D pics and it's a little early for 3D pics to come out but on one of the girls, there's a clear view of the face. She looks just like Max looked. And on one of the boys, there's a clear view of his arms and legs. They're so cute. Absolutely perfectly formed. I can't wait until they figure out names for them. I'm taking the pics to my knitting group (Knitting with the Slightly Unraveled) on Monday. I've got to show off.

Thank you for the prayers. They're much appreciated!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Keep those pictures coming. It's my sweet fix.


I agree! I love the baby pics.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're all hanging in there. Dil is doing well. She's at 19 weeks and all is good. Doc had said she'd probably go on bed rest (possibly, hospital bed rest) at 20 wks, but she's doing so well, that she's still allowed to do a little, like going to family get togethers etc... No shopping or housework and she's to try and stay down as much as possible. I believe I'm making a difference. Things are getting a little easier as I get used to being so active again. The first couple of weeks were really hard, especially getting up at 6 am and taking care of Max. I've been cooking breakfasts and lunches in an effort to get dil to eat more. I'm also cleaning, doing laundry etc... I work a little, then play with Max. Then I work a little and then do a craft with him and repeat. It works out pretty well. I'm not getting as much done at home but my Hubby's helping out there. On Thursday, my son put it aptly, only 15 more doctor's appointments, which equates to 15 weeks. I can't wait!
> 
> I got to keep the latest ultrasound pics. Two of the babies pics turned out really well. They're 3D pics and it's a little early for 3D pics to come out but on one of the girls, there's a clear view of the face. She looks just like Max looked. And on one of the boys, there's a clear view of his arms and legs. They're so cute. Absolutely perfectly formed. I can't wait until they figure out names for them. I'm taking the pics to my knitting group (Knitting with the Slightly Unraveled) on Monday. I've got to show off.
> 
> Thank you for the prayers. They're much appreciated!


There are 4 babies, right?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There are 4 babies, right?


Yup! Two girls and two boys! The first girls in our family! I get to knit pink.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I've got to get to bed. Ttyl!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're all hanging in there. Dil is doing well. She's at 19 weeks and all is good. Doc had said she'd probably go on bed rest (possibly, hospital bed rest) at 20 wks, but she's doing so well, that she's still allowed to do a little, like going to family get togethers etc... No shopping or housework and she's to try and stay down as much as possible. I believe I'm making a difference. Things are getting a little easier as I get used to being so active again. The first couple of weeks were really hard, especially getting up at 6 am and taking care of Max. I've been cooking breakfasts and lunches in an effort to get dil to eat more. I'm also cleaning, doing laundry etc... I work a little, then play with Max. Then I work a little and then do a craft with him and repeat. It works out pretty well. I'm not getting as much done at home but my Hubby's helping out there. On Thursday, my son put it aptly, only 15 more doctor's appointments, which equates to 15 weeks. I can't wait!
> 
> I got to keep the latest ultrasound pics. Two of the babies pics turned out really well. They're 3D pics and it's a little early for 3D pics to come out but on one of the girls, there's a clear view of the face. She looks just like Max looked. And on one of the boys, there's a clear view of his arms and legs. They're so cute. Absolutely perfectly formed. I can't wait until they figure out names for them. I'm taking the pics to my knitting group (Knitting with the Slightly Unraveled) on Monday. I've got to show off.
> 
> Thank you for the prayers. They're much appreciated!


you and the others on this thread are all my friends. I have you in my thoughts and Little Max and your son and dil too.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've got to get to bed. Ttyl!


Good night KFN. Sweet dreams!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The triplets are all at home now. Waiting for pictures.
> 
> Oh, and if you haven't seen these:
> 
> ...


They're hilarious. Except maybe the one with the pompom right in the middle of the seat - that may be hard to sit on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> More


How cute. And how convenient it must be to have someone there to pick your nose for you.

Brother Tom is also a beauty.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This just arrived from (who else) a Jewish lawyer:


>You may or may not remember the old-time Jewish American comedians: Shecky Green, Red Buttons, Totie Fields, Milton Berle, Henny Youngman, and many others? Perhaps you may have only heard of them. I for one miss their kind of humor. Not a single nasty word in any of their comic routines shown below:

* A car hit an elderly Jewish man. The paramedic says, "Are you comfortable?" The man says, "I make a good living."

* I just got back from a pleasure trip. I took my mother-in-law to the airport.

* I've been in love with the same woman for 49 years. If my wife finds out, she'll kill me!

* Someone stole all my credit cards, but I won't be reporting it. The thief spends less than my wife did.

* We always hold hands. If I let go, she shops.

* My wife and I went to a hotel where we got a waterbed. My wife calls it the Dead Sea.

* My wife and I revisited the hotel where we spent our wedding night. This time I was the one who stayed in the bathroom and cried.

* My Wife was at the beauty shop for two hours. That was only for the estimate. She got a mudpack and looked great for two days. Then the mud fell off.

* The Doctor gave a man six months to live. The man couldn't pay his bill, so the doctor gave him another six months.

* The Doctor called Mrs. Cohen saying, "Mrs. Cohen, your check came back." Mrs. Cohen replied, "So did my arthritis!"
I'm 
* Doctor: "You'll live to be 60!" Patient: "I AM 60!" Doctor: "See! What did I tell you?"

* A doctor held a stethoscope up to a man's chest. The man asks, "Doc, how do I stand?" The doctor says, "That's what puzzles me!"

* Patient: "I have a ringing in my ears." Doctor: "Don't answer!"

* A drunk was in front of a judge. The judge says, "You've been brought here for drinking." The drunk says, "Okay, let's get started."

* Why do Jewish divorces cost so much? They're worth it.

* Why do Jewish men die before their wives? They want to.

*The Harvard School of Medicine did a study of why Jewish women like Chinese food so much. The study revealed that the reason for this is because Won Ton spelled backward is Not Now.

* There is a big controversy on the Jewish view of when life begins. In Jewish tradition, the fetus is not considered viable until it graduates from law school.

* Q : Why don't Jewish mothers drink? A : Alcohol interferes with their suffering.

* Q : Have you seen the newest Jewish-American-Princess horror movie? A : It's called, "Debbie Does Dishes."

* Q : Why do Jewish mothers make great parole officers? A : They never let anyone finish a sentence.

* A man called his mother in Florida . "Mom, how are you?" Not too good," said the mother. "I've been very weak." The son said, "Why are you so weak?" She said, "Because I haven't eaten in 38 days." The son said, "That's terrible. Why haven't you eaten in 38 days?" The mother answered, "Because, I didn't want my mouth to be full in case you should call."

*A Jewish man said that when he was growing up, they always had two choices for dinner - Take it or leave it.

* A Jewish boy comes home from school and tells his mother he has a part in the play. She asks, "What part is it?" The boy says, "I play the part of the Jewish husband." The mother scowls and says, "Go back and tell the teacher you want a speaking part."

Q : Where does a Jewish husband hide money from his wife? A : Under the vacuum cleaner.

Q : How many Jewish mothers does it take to change a light bulb? A : (Sigh) "Don't bother. I'll sit in the dark. I don't want to be a nuisance to anybody."

A Jewish mother gives her son a blue shirt and a brown shirt for his birthday. On the next visit, he wears the brown one. The mother says, "What's the matter already? Didn't you like the blue one?"

Did you hear about the bum who walked up to a Jewish mother on the street and said, "Lady I haven't eaten in three days." "Force yourself," she replied.

Q : What's the difference between a Rottweiler and a Jewish mother? A : Eventually, the Rottweiler lets go.

Q : Why are Jewish Men circumcised? A : Because Jewish women don't like anything that isn't 20% off

I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So happy for all. You're a real trouper.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're all hanging in there. Dil is doing well. She's at 19 weeks and all is good. Doc had said she'd probably go on bed rest (possibly, hospital bed rest) at 20 wks, but she's doing so well, that she's still allowed to do a little, like going to family get togethers etc... No shopping or housework and she's to try and stay down as much as possible. I believe I'm making a difference. Things are getting a little easier as I get used to being so active again. The first couple of weeks were really hard, especially getting up at 6 am and taking care of Max. I've been cooking breakfasts and lunches in an effort to get dil to eat more. I'm also cleaning, doing laundry etc... I work a little, then play with Max. Then I work a little and then do a craft with him and repeat. It works out pretty well. I'm not getting as much done at home but my Hubby's helping out there. On Thursday, my son put it aptly, only 15 more doctor's appointments, which equates to 15 weeks. I can't wait!
> 
> I got to keep the latest ultrasound pics. Two of the babies pics turned out really well. They're 3D pics and it's a little early for 3D pics to come out but on one of the girls, there's a clear view of the face. She looks just like Max looked. And on one of the boys, there's a clear view of his arms and legs. They're so cute. Absolutely perfectly formed. I can't wait until they figure out names for them. I'm taking the pics to my knitting group (Knitting with the Slightly Unraveled) on Monday. I've got to show off.
> 
> Thank you for the prayers. They're much appreciated!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've got to get to bed. Ttyl!


Hope you all get your well needed rest. Hopes and prayers for Max to enjoy growing up with his little brothers and sisters, all in good health.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Purl, the jokes were hilarious. These people knew how to get you to howl with laughter without a single bit of smut. I sent them on to my SIL and a friend. Too good not to share.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> What's handsome Big Brother's name? A saint, no doubt.


TJ, short for Tom Jr.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This just arrived from (who else) a Jewish lawyer:
> 
> >You may or may not remember the old-time Jewish American comedians: Shecky Green, Red Buttons, Totie Fields, Milton Berle, Henny Youngman, and many others? Perhaps you may have only heard of them. I for one miss their kind of humor. Not a single nasty word in any of their comic routines shown below:
> 
> ...


Purl, these are great! You should put them on a separate thread. Everyone would love them. It's great to start the day with a smile. Thanks for sharing them. :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> So happy for all. You're a real trouper.


Thanks, Dame!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hope you all get your well needed rest. Hopes and prayers for Max to enjoy growing up with his little brothers and sisters, all in good health.


Thanks for the prayers, Marilyn!


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

PP...
Off the charts funny! Henny Yongman, famous for "take my wife, please"!
I miss those guys. 
Thanks for a good laugh so early in the morning California time.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Purl, the jokes were hilarious. These people knew how to get you to howl with laughter without a single bit of smut. I sent them on to my SIL and a friend. Too good not to share.


I rarely pass on a bunch of jokes to friends, but these all made me laugh. I'm glad you liked them, too.

The list omitted Buddy Hackett, who was a potty-mouth _extraordinaire._


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MindyT said:


> PP...
> Off the charts funny! Henny Yongman, famous for "take my wife, please"!
> I miss those guys.
> Thanks for a good laugh so early in the morning California time.


I'm taking Nebraska's suggestion and making them a separate thread. Curious to see what responses I get.

Those guys really were funny, and often at their own expense.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm taking Nebraska's suggestion and making them a separate thread. Curious to see what responses I get.
> 
> Those guys really were funny, and often at their own expense.


Want to bet you'll get accusations of being anti-semitic?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Want to bet you'll get accusations of being anti-semitic?


I won't take your bet; it's what I'm expecting. But Let's Find Out.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I won't take your bet; it's what I'm expecting. But Let's Find Out.


You can add this one to your list:

Why did Moses wander for 40 years in the desert? Because he wouldn't stop and ask for directions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> You can add this one to your list:
> 
> Why did Moses wander for 40 years in the desert? Because he wouldn't stop and ask for directions.


Ba-dum pum!!!

(I couldn't find a smiley of clashing cymbals.)


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ba-dum pum!!!
> 
> (I couldn't find a smiley of clashing cymbals.)


Hang on


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Took some time to get it right.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're all hanging in there. Dil is doing well. She's at 19 weeks and all is good. Doc had said she'd probably go on bed rest (possibly, hospital bed rest) at 20 wks, but she's doing so well, that she's still allowed to do a little, like going to family get togethers etc... No shopping or housework and she's to try and stay down as much as possible. I believe I'm making a difference. Things are getting a little easier as I get used to being so active again. The first couple of weeks were really hard, especially getting up at 6 am and taking care of Max. I've been cooking breakfasts and lunches in an effort to get dil to eat more. I'm also cleaning, doing laundry etc... I work a little, then play with Max. Then I work a little and then do a craft with him and repeat. It works out pretty well. I'm not getting as much done at home but my Hubby's helping out there. On Thursday, my son put it aptly, only 15 more doctor's appointments, which equates to 15 weeks. I can't wait!
> 
> I got to keep the latest ultrasound pics. Two of the babies pics turned out really well. They're 3D pics and it's a little early for 3D pics to come out but on one of the girls, there's a clear view of the face. She looks just like Max looked. And on one of the boys, there's a clear view of his arms and legs. They're so cute. Absolutely perfectly formed. I can't wait until they figure out names for them. I'm taking the pics to my knitting group (Knitting with the Slightly Unraveled) on Monday. I've got to show off.
> 
> Thank you for the prayers. They're much appreciated!


Glad you are getting lots of play time in too. When my GD was little, and weekends were suppose to be Daddy play time, her Daddy would set the timer so they could play for 20 minutes and then work for 20 minutes. It was a good way for her to learn to work too, and he got something done also. It will be harder to find Max time once the babies arrive, and harder to find sleep time too. but what a blessing they will be. fun and work.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This just arrived from (who else) a Jewish lawyer:
> 
> >You may or may not remember the old-time Jewish American comedians: Shecky Green, Red Buttons, Totie Fields, Milton Berle, Henny Youngman, and many others? Perhaps you may have only heard of them. I for one miss their kind of humor. Not a single nasty word in any of their comic routines shown below:
> 
> ...


I loved all of them and their humor -these sure brought back some memories for me. Even some before TV - and I miss that type of humor.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Want to bet you'll get accusations of being anti-semitic?


nnot to worry. give us the link when you do and I will go and chuckle loudly like I just did. I remember all of them with a great deal of pleasure.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Took some time to get it right.


... and worth every second.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am doing a trial run with my size 0 dpn's. It's like knitting with tooth picks! I think I will going through some Aspercreme using these!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> So happy for all. You're a real trouper.


My Nana said that people who do wonderful things 'earn their wings' I think you are earning yours.

There was a small Prayer service at the seniors center last Wednesday morning for a woman whose son and dil were carrying multiples - actually 4 and she is over half way through and things are still looking good. Every one in the seniors center met in the lounge and prayed for then. I prayed for you and your babies Nebraska. It was very moving. I mentioned your family to them, as well as little Grace and they said a prayer for all of you too.

You are part of this group and one of our good friends. People don't have to agree about everything to be friends. I consider you one of mine as you know. S


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> nnot to worry. give us the link when you do and I will go and chuckle loudly like I just did. I remember all of them with a great deal of pleasure.


Here's the link: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-321128-1.html

Are they still funny the second time around?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am doing a trial run with my size 0 dpn's. It's like knitting with tooth picks! I think I will going through some Aspercreme using these!


That's real dedication. Soon you'll develop calluses, and it won't hurt any more. (Yeah, right!)


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's real dedication. Soon you'll develop calluses, and it won't hurt any more. (Yeah, right!)


I can't have a grand daughter who has a doll with only one outfit!
I fell in love with the Nicky Epstein's knitting patterns for dolls. Most of these will be put away until she is a little bit older. I am incorporating the knit with fabric and for now velcro closures so they will be easier for her to use. I have been crafting shoes for it, too.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can't have a grand daughter who has a doll with only one outfit!
> I fell in love with the Nicky Epstein's knitting patterns for dolls. Most of these will be put away until she is a little bit older. I am incorporating the knit with fabric and for now velcro closures so they will be easier for her to use. I have been crafting shoes for it, too.


Ladyfingers posted a nice little pattern for Mary Jane slippers for the AG. I got a pair of "crocs" that fit at Michaels with the 40% off coupon. I think once I get my socks done I will try to make the doll a pair.

Right now I am making a pair of worsted socks with Encore so I can see what I am doing learning the fish lips kiss heel. DD bought me the instructions. She loves the way the heel turns out. My friend finished a pair and her heels are gorgeous.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can't have a grand daughter who has a doll with only one outfit!
> I fell in love with the Nicky Epstein's knitting patterns for dolls. Most of these will be put away until she is a little bit older. I am incorporating the knit with fabric and for now velcro closures so they will be easier for her to use. I have been crafting shoes for it, too.


You are working for a medal for world's greatest grandma. Use as much fabric as you can; it goes a lot faster than knitting.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Took some time to get it right.


well done!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I won't take your bet; it's what I'm expecting. But Let's Find Out.


the more I think of it the more I doubt it. These comedians were well loved since I was a girl. We watched for them and laughed with them. I doubt many will find them offensive unless they are too young to remember the comedians.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> the more I think of it the more I doubt it. These comedians were well loved since I was a girl. We watched for them and laughed with them. I doubt many will find them offensive unless they are too young to remember the comedians.


I was thinking that because it's Purl posting them, she'd get all kinds of bat guano thrown at her.

Nice to see that, so far, I'm wrong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I was thinking that because it's Purl posting them, she'd get all kinds of bat guano thrown at her.
> 
> Nice to see that, so far, I'm wrong.


Bat guano :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Judy- how are the babies doing. Is Grace doing okay?

How is their mom dealing -- still insisting on going to work. poor babies. they are so sweet. I hope your sister is not going to be stuck doing their mother's job - although it sounds as if she doesn't live there. There are lots of programs here to help situations like that, are there the same there?

I hope they are all thriving and that Grace is not in as serious shape as first thought. such a worry for your sister. keep us informed - I loved the pictures.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Judy- how are the babies doing. Is Grace doing okay?
> 
> How is their mom dealing -- still insisting on going to work. poor babies. they are so sweet. I hope your sister is not going to be stuck doing their mother's job - although it sounds as if she doesn't live there. There are lots of programs here to help situations like that, are there the same there?
> 
> I hope they are all thriving and that Grace is not in as serious shape as first thought. such a worry for your sister. keep us informed - I loved the pictures.


My sister gets stuck with an awful lot for those 2. When they were trying to sell their house (and this was before the first was even thought about) the real estate agent wanted it cleaned better and some areas that were dingy repainted. Guess who ended up doing it? Because they were always "too busy". So yeah, she's doing a lot of what should be done.

Anyway, more pictures.

Grace is in the center in the first one, I can't tell which is which for the other 2. The single is Grace.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> My sister gets stuck with an awful lot for those 2. When they were trying to sell their house (and this was before the first was even thought about) the real estate agent wanted it cleaned better and some areas that were dingy repainted. Guess who ended up doing it? Because they were always "too busy". So yeah, she's doing a lot of what should be done.
> 
> Anyway, more pictures.
> 
> Grace is in the center in the first one, I can't tell which is which for the other 2. The single is Grace.


So beautiful. Still, glad it didn't happen to me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> My sister gets stuck with an awful lot for those 2. When they were trying to sell their house (and this was before the first was even thought about) the real estate agent wanted it cleaned better and some areas that were dingy repainted. Guess who ended up doing it? Because they were always "too busy". So yeah, she's doing a lot of what should be done.
> 
> Anyway, more pictures.
> 
> Grace is in the center in the first one, I can't tell which is which for the other 2. The single is Grace.


The Trips are a trip. I love My Graceeeeee. Keep posting.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> So beautiful. Still, glad it didn't happen to me.


Same here! I had a job keeping up with one at a time!

My next door neighbor's triplet boys are seniors in high school now. Their older brother is a junior in college. Can you imagine the bills for college the next four years? One of the boys has a chance at some help with a football scholarship, but still.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Same here! I had a job keeping up with one at a time!
> 
> My next door neighbor's triplet boys are seniors in high school now. Their older brother is a junior in college. Can you imagine the bills for college the next four years? One of the boys has a chance at some help with a football scholarship, but still.


My two children are nine years apart. I've always felt this was a good thing. Didn't have two in diapers at once, didn't have two in pre-school at once, didn't have two teenagers at once...we didn't plan it that way but it sure worked out well. As adults they are close even though they couldn't get along in the back seat of the car.

My great-grandmother had 16 children, 10 of them lived. First two were identical twin boys, then 18 months later identical twin girls. They lived on a farm and my great-grandmother had to walk 1/4 mile to get water. Sure glad THAT didn't happen to me!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am a twin, Bright Green, so I love to see twin pics. They were adorable. I read recently that there are only 2 people living from the 19th century. It is amazing that these cuties grew up and then eventually moved to the Other Side.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

D


Designer1234 said:


> the more I think of it the more I doubt it. These comedians were well loved since I was a girl. We watched for them and laughed with them. I doubt many will find them offensive unless they are too young to remember the comedians.


You're right. The responses are all positive, and some are adding their own jokes to the list. I think there's even a DPer among the posters, gjz or something like that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am a twin, Bright Green, so I love to see twin pics. They were adorable. I read recently that there are only 2 people living from the 19th century. It is amazing that these cuties grew up and then eventually moved to the Other Side.


We did have a set of twins in the family but never knew about it until after my maternal grandfather died and we were doing some research in the census listings.

Grandpa was a twin (fraternal, boy and girl). Born in 1904, both still listed in the 1910 census but Leona was gone in the 1920 listings. There's no record of death for her, NOBODY ever mentioned her, there's no gravesite. We have absolutely no idea of what happened to her. All we have is a picture of the 2 of them taken around the time of their mother's death in 1908. Even Grandpa's brothers never told their families about her.

But it's only one half of a mystery. Their mother's body was buried in -her- family's cemetery plot and even today there are no burials close to her. My great-grandfather married again soon after (to his wife's nurse...she had evidently been sick for some time) and their first child was born quite soon after that. But that still doesn't explain why Jessie wasn't buried with family.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bat guano :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


I think he was a character in Dr. Strangelove.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> My sister gets stuck with an awful lot for those 2. When they were trying to sell their house (and this was before the first was even thought about) the real estate agent wanted it cleaned better and some areas that were dingy repainted. Guess who ended up doing it? Because they were always "too busy". So yeah, she's doing a lot of what should be done.
> 
> Anyway, more pictures.
> 
> Grace is in the center in the first one, I can't tell which is which for the other 2. The single is Grace.


They're all just beautiful.

I hope someone tells your sister that as long as she agrees to do their work, they'll always have plenty of work for her. If she said no, they may have to do some of it themselves.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Judy, those babies are adorable.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I am a twin, Bright Green, so I love to see twin pics. They were adorable. I read recently that there are only 2 people living from the 19th century. It is amazing that these cuties grew up and then eventually moved to the Other Side.


My grandmother and her sister continued to dress alike and wear their hair the same well into their later years. They loved to turn heads as they walked down the street together. Both had fantastic personalities and great senses of humor. My grandmother and I were closer than my mother and I. I miss her still.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They're all just beautiful.
> 
> I hope someone tells your sister that as long as she agrees to do their work, they'll always have plenty of work for her. If she said no, they may have to do some of it themselves.


Reminds me of the old saying - you can't be a doormat unless you lie down.

Sounds a little harsh, but from what I gather, sister is in for tough times. Boundaries!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

My maternal grandmother was the fifth in a family of eleven - but she thought one of the younger ones was the survivor of twins. She was too young when he was born to really remember. And in those days people didn't talk about babies who didn't survive. Twins are a recessive in that line of the family. Two of her younger brothers were grandfathers of twins.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For your reading pleasure, following is...

The Teabagger Socialist-Free Purity Pledge

, ________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:

I will complain about the destruction of 1st Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 1st Amendment Rights.

I will complain about the destruction of my 2nd Amendment Rights in this country, while I am duly being allowed to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights by legally but brazenly brandishing unconcealed firearms in public.

I will foreswear the time-honored principles of fairness, decency, and respect by screaming unintelligible platitudes regarding tyranny, Nazi-ism, and socialism at public town halls. Also.

I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:
Social Security



Medicare/Medicaid



State Childrens Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)



Police, Fire, and Emergency Services



US Postal Service



Roads and Highways



Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)



The US Railway System



Public Subways and Metro Systems



Public Bus and Lightrail Systems



Rest Areas on Highways



Sidewalks



All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations)



Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)



Public and State Universities and Colleges



Public Primary and Secondary Schools



Sesame Street



Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children



Public Museums



Libraries



Public Parks and Beaches



State and National Parks



Public Zoos



Unemployment Insurance



Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services



Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)



Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)



Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)



Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking



Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies



Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies

If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care

I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.

I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to: 
Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History



The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments



The government-operated Statue of Liberty



The Grand Canyon



The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials



The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery



All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC 

I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.

I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America. 

I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army. 

I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees. 

Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks. 

Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.

SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF __________ IN THE YEAR ___.

_____________ _________________________

Signed Printed Name/Town and State


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They're all just beautiful.
> 
> I hope someone tells your sister that as long as she agrees to do their work, they'll always have plenty of work for her. If she said no, they may have to do some of it themselves.


She'll never do it. Sometimes she exasperates me with her defense of these kids' actions.

But...she lost our mother when she was 10 and never had it explained to her was happening or what had happened. Then was saddled with not 1 but 2 evil stepmothers who expected her to be their servant. Her inability to hear didn't help things. (Stepmother 1 took away her hearing aid, saying she was just faking) Then a husband who considered females as totally lacking in any kind of ability outside the kitchen or the bedroom.

So just about anything her kids say 'thank you' for makes her feel like an adequate human being.

Example of her lack of self-worth...I stayed with her for a while after her husband died. One night I made spaghetti and screwed up the pasta water, adding too much salt. It was awful. She sat there, unable to eat it and said "I'm sorry". I screwed it up (and I couldn't eat it, either) and she's saying "I'm sorry" before I ever had a chance to apologize and offer to make something else.

So no, she's not likely to not do everything she can for them. She's already cut her work hours so she can spend more time doing for them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> My maternal grandmother was the fifth in a family of eleven - but she thought one of the younger ones was the survivor of twins. She was too young when he was born to really remember. And in those days people didn't talk about babies who didn't survive. Twins are a recessive in that line of the family. Two of her younger brothers were grandfathers of twins.


Multiples do run in families. Adorable and fun and fascinating to us "singles" but I'm still glad my kids were WIDELY spaced! Twins ran in my husband's family AND mine. I think I dodged a bullet.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For your reading pleasure, following is...
> 
> The Teabagger Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
> 
> ...


Need I mention which forum topic you should visit to post a copy of this? I don't visit there, but I can imagine some of the reactions!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> She'll never do it. Sometimes she exasperates me with her defense of these kids' actions.
> 
> But...she lost our mother when she was 10 and never had it explained to her was happening or what had happened. Then was saddled with not 1 but 2 evil stepmothers who expected her to be their servant. Her inability to hear didn't help things. (Stepmother 1 took away her hearing aid, saying she was just faking) Then a husband who considered females as totally lacking in any kind of ability outside the kitchen or the bedroom.
> 
> ...


I want to weep for her. You two certainly had a horrible time of it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For your reading pleasure, following is...
> 
> The Teabagger Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
> 
> ...


Love it.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I want to weep for her. You two certainly had a horrible time of it.


I didn't get those problems. I was 18 when our mother died and then I left with the carnival.

The step-mothers were never a problem for me as they married my step father (my sisters' father). The second one only died recently and we all said 'good riddance'.

I'm sorry I wasn't there for her but I just couldn't stay.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> She'll never do it. Sometimes she exasperates me with her defense of these kids' actions.
> 
> But...she lost our mother when she was 10 and never had it explained to her was happening or what had happened. Then was saddled with not 1 but 2 evil stepmothers who expected her to be their servant. Her inability to hear didn't help things. (Stepmother 1 took away her hearing aid, saying she was just faking) Then a husband who considered females as totally lacking in any kind of ability outside the kitchen or the bedroom.
> 
> ...


How sad - she never had a chance, did she?

A pity she couldn't have gone off to join a carnival. It would have done her a lot of good.

By the way, according to my son, if the water is too salty, throw a potato or two in it; they'll absorb the salt. I don't believe it, but he's absolutely certain.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Need I mention which forum topic you should visit to post a copy of this? I don't visit there, but I can imagine some of the reactions!


Would they recognize it as a joke?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How sad - she never had a chance, did she?
> 
> A pity she couldn't have gone off to join a carnival. It would have done her a lot of good.
> 
> By the way, according to my son, if the water is too salty, throw a potato or two in it; they'll absorb the salt. I don't believe it, but he's absolutely certain.


I've tried the potato trick. Might work for a little too much salt but there is no salvaging a dish that has way too much. Time for a pb&j.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Would they recognize it as a joke?


C'mon, you need a sense of the ridiculous to see it as a joke. Nobody who takes Faux "News" seriously can possibly have a sense of humor or a sense of the ridiculous.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For your reading pleasure, following is...
> 
> The Teabagger Socialist-Free Purity Pledge
> 
> ...


This is just perfect, D! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> We did have a set of twins in the family but never knew about it until after my maternal grandfather died and we were doing some research in the census listings.
> 
> Grandpa was a twin (fraternal, boy and girl). Born in 1904, both still listed in the 1910 census but Leona was gone in the 1920 listings. There's no record of death for her, NOBODY ever mentioned her, there's no gravesite. We have absolutely no idea of what happened to her. All we have is a picture of the 2 of them taken around the time of their mother's death in 1908. Even Grandpa's brothers never told their families about her.
> 
> But it's only one half of a mystery. Their mother's body was buried in -her- family's cemetery plot and even today there are no burials close to her. My great-grandfather married again soon after (to his wife's nurse...she had evidently been sick for some time) and their first child was born quite soon after that. But that still doesn't explain why Jessie wasn't buried with family.


The mystery in my family is my Mothers two brothers being born 4 months apart. Every place they are listed in the census, or any kind of records, has those same birth dates. The one brother, later, died in a car accident before he was to report to the army during the Korean war. The newspaper actually had the nerve to print that he killed himself because he didn't want to report for duty. I can't imagine the slander suit that would cause today. It still ticks me off when I think about it. No one ever talked about any of it. We read about the accident in a newspaper clipping after everyone was gone.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Reminds me of the old saying - you can't be a doormat unless you lie down.
> 
> Sounds a little harsh, but from what I gather, sister is in for tough times. Boundaries!


When you grow up 'knowing' (because you are told as a child)that you are not as good as anyone else, and deserve bad treatment -- it is hard to change the feelings of insignificance you carry for your life, unless you are fortunate enough to meet someone who thinks you are the best person they have ever met, and tell you that every chance they get. You start to believe it but it doesn't take much to go back to the early feelings. Some of us are very lucky and we are able to throw off the hurt and lack of confidence but others never can and they think they "deserve" bad treatment and don't know how to allow anything else.

My heart aches for your sister. The sad thing is she likely taught her son that she didn't deserve better so he might not even realize what he is doing to her.

So sad. heartbreaking actually.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> When you grow up 'knowing' (because you are told as a child)that you are not as good as anyone else, and deserve bad treatment -- it is hard to change the feelings of insignificance you carry for your life, unless you are fortunate enough to meet someone who thinks you are the best person they have ever met, and tell you that every chance they get. You start to believe it but it doesn't take much to go back to the early feelings. Some of us are very lucky and we are able to throw off the hurt and lack of confidence but others never can and they think they "deserve" bad treatment and don't know how to allow anything else.
> 
> My heart aches for your sister. The sad thing is she likely taught her son that she didn't deserve better so he might not even realize what he is doing to her.
> 
> So sad. heartbreaking actually.


Your observations are so profoundly true. I've been there myself and have been lucky to escape the cycle of self-abuse. My own sister - not so fortunate.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Need I mention which forum topic you should visit to post a copy of this? I don't visit there, but I can imagine some of the reactions!


Not sure I want to stir THAT pot.

It would go over their heads anyway.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I didn't get those problems. I was 18 when our mother died and then I left with the carnival.
> 
> The step-mothers were never a problem for me as they married my step father (my sisters' father). The second one only died recently and we all said 'good riddance'.
> 
> I'm sorry I wasn't there for her but I just couldn't stay.


You have to put that oxygen mask on yourself first. I left home when my sister was 9 and only recently have I reached an understanding of how difficult life was for her - not nearly as bad as your sister's, but there were issues.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> When you grow up 'knowing' (because you are told as a child)that you are not as good as anyone else, and deserve bad treatment -- it is hard to change the feelings of insignificance you carry for your life, unless you are fortunate enough to meet someone who thinks you are the best person they have ever met, and tell you that every chance they get. You start to believe it but it doesn't take much to go back to the early feelings. Some of us are very lucky and we are able to throw off the hurt and lack of confidence but others never can and they think they "deserve" bad treatment and don't know how to allow anything else.
> 
> My heart aches for your sister. The sad thing is she likely taught her son that she didn't deserve better so he might not even realize what he is doing to her.
> 
> So sad. heartbreaking actually.


No, his dad taught him that. Maybe I need to say that she just didn't have the nerve to try to go against it.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> We did have a set of twins in the family but never knew about it until after my maternal grandfather died and we were doing some research in the census listings.
> 
> Grandpa was a twin (fraternal, boy and girl). Born in 1904, both still listed in the 1910 census but Leona was gone in the 1920 listings. There's no record of death for her, NOBODY ever mentioned her, there's no gravesite. We have absolutely no idea of what happened to her. All we have is a picture of the 2 of them taken around the time of their mother's death in 1908. Even Grandpa's brothers never told their families about her.
> 
> But it's only one half of a mystery. Their mother's body was buried in -her- family's cemetery plot and even today there are no burials close to her. My great-grandfather married again soon after (to his wife's nurse...she had evidently been sick for some time) and their first child was born quite soon after that. But that still doesn't explain why Jessie wasn't buried with family.


She might have died in the terrible flu epidemic of 1918. It was pretty bad.

Maybe Jessie was buried some distance away to "save" space for other family members? Curious, how families keep secrets and did things we would find bizarre today.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> My maternal grandmother was the fifth in a family of eleven - but she thought one of the younger ones was the survivor of twins. She was too young when he was born to really remember. And in those days people didn't talk about babies who didn't survive. Twins are a recessive in that line of the family. Two of her younger brothers were grandfathers of twins.


I learned an interesting fact about infants when doing some research into my own family. In my family tree there is a long line of Alexanders. I understand it was a custom for the first son to be named Alexander and if the infant died, the next son would be named Alexander until they got a hardy, surviving child. So many babies (and women) died in the early days, especially twins who might be smaller and more prone to illness. So sad.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> The mystery in my family is my Mothers two brothers being born 4 months apart. Every place they are listed in the census, or any kind of records, has those same birth dates. The one brother, later, died in a car accident before he was to report to the army during the Korean war. The newspaper actually had the nerve to print that he killed himself because he didn't want to report for duty. I can't imagine the slander suit that would cause today. It still ticks me off when I think about it. No one ever talked about any of it. We read about the accident in a newspaper clipping after everyone was gone.


I found an article on delayed interval births but four months seems a stretch. Still - if mother had a double uterus and got pregnant at different times...? Indeed, a mystery.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2422/can-twins-be-born-a-month-or-two-apart

So sorry the paper reported such a horrible thing. I'd be ticked, too.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Multiples do run in families. Adorable and fun and fascinating to us "singles" but I'm still glad my kids were WIDELY spaced! Twins ran in my husband's family AND mine. I think I dodged a bullet.


There has been a set of twins in my mothers side of the family every other generation for several generations, including me being a twin (twin did not survive) and 2 of my children have twins, odd huh?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Your observations are so profoundly true. I've been there myself and have been lucky to escape the cycle of self-abuse. My own sister - not so fortunate.


I am just thankful I met my husband who wouldn't allow me to put myself down or be a 'victim'


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> There has been a set of twins in my mothers side of the family every other generation for several generations, including me being a twin (twin did not survive) and 2 of my children have twins, odd huh?


Are the sets of twins identical or fraternal?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> Are the sets of twins identical or fraternal?


Surviving ones have been identical, at least my grandchildren are, not sure about past generations.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> C'mon, you need a sense of the ridiculous to see it as a joke. Nobody who takes Faux "News" seriously can possibly have a sense of humor or a sense of the ridiculous.


You're right. That's why they think we're angry all the time; they have no sense of the ridiculous or even of the funny.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. That's why they think we're angry all the time; they have no sense of the ridiculous or even of the funny.


Well, when you're that paranoid there's no room for humor. You're going to see any attempt at it with the thought "what did she really mean by that...she must be in league with THEM to say something like that" blah, blah, blah.

Bat guano.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> The mystery in my family is my Mothers two brothers being born 4 months apart. Every place they are listed in the census, or any kind of records, has those same birth dates. The one brother, later, died in a car accident before he was to report to the army during the Korean war. The newspaper actually had the nerve to print that he killed himself because he didn't want to report for duty. I can't imagine the slander suit that would cause today. It still ticks me off when I think about it. No one ever talked about any of it. We read about the accident in a newspaper clipping after everyone was gone.


You've mentioned those 4-months-apart brothers before. That's a real mystery.

The newspaper should have been sued beyond an inch of its life (it's probably no longer alive now, anyway). Where do they come off making a speculation like that?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am just thankful I met my husband who wouldn't allow me to put myself down or be a 'victim'


Pat was smart enough to recognize quality. So happy you found each other.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I found an article on delayed interval births but four months seems a stretch. Still - if mother had a double uterus and got pregnant at different times...? Indeed, a mystery.
> 
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2422/can-twins-be-born-a-month-or-two-apart
> 
> So sorry the paper reported such a horrible thing. I'd be ticked, too.


One possibility is that the brothers were really half-brothers, and grandma agreed to raise the other mother's baby as her own.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Well, when you're that paranoid there's no room for humor. You're going to see any attempt at it with the thought "what did she really mean by that...she must be in league with THEM to say something like that" blah, blah, blah.
> 
> Bat guano.


played by Keenan Wynn.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> played by Keenan Wynn.


More like all three of the Stooges.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> More like all three of the Stooges.


That, too. But I was thinking of Dr. Strangelove.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That, too. But I was thinking of Dr. Strangelove.


Haven't seen that one in a while. Will have to see if it's available on Netflix.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That, too. But I was thinking of Dr. Strangelove.


Wasn't that Peter Sellers?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Wasn't that Peter Sellers?


Peter Sellers, bah...can't think of the names...guy who played Patton. Peter Sellers (he had 4 or 5 roles) Slim Pickens, Glen Beck (no, not THAT one, but would have been a perfect role for him).


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Pat was smart enough to recognize quality. So happy you found each other.


Thanks, yes we are so fortunate. I feel so sad for those who have no one to show them that they are of value. It wrecks lives . I still fight the feelings but at least I know I should fight them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Haven't seen that one in a while. Will have to see if it's available on Netflix.


http://archive.org/details/DRStrangelove_201306


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Actually, I don't think Joey had much a chance of a happy life, as she was in a deeply religious family and told every time she was naughty that there would be terrible results. I was in that situation too. I, for some reason wouldn't accept what my very religious parents said as I felt that God wouldn't punish a little girl. 

So I fought it in my head and never accepted that God would do that. However I still was badly damaged. That is why I 
feel the pain she must feel and I understand why she is so certain - she has been raised to never question.

I am not going to attack her any more- I have been thinking about her and I have no stomach to attack her for something that she learned as a child. I respect her as she goes by her beliefs, even if I feel they are way off the truth.-- I did explain the Marshall Plan to show her that she might be wrong in what she stated. However, I am not going to say anything more to make her feel badly. How does a child overcome that type of feelings and how do you learn to question? I did because I was born stubborn and I had someone else in my life who I respected and who taught me we don't need to be afraid of God's Anger if we try to be a good person.'


I know that many children in my Church were told when they were naughty that God would be angry with them. So sad. 

If anyone of our regular posters from the other thread decides to take me on about this, don't bother. I won't be drawn into a discussion about Joey with you. I am not going to discuss her with anyone from now on.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Designer for saying what you did to Mrs. Somma. 

In a debate, when you belittle the opponent, you lost.

I don't agree with Mrs. Somma but I credit her with not stooping to meanness now.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> No, his dad taught him that. Maybe I need to say that she just didn't have the nerve to try to go against it.


That is because those who put her down convinced her she deserves it -- she lost the opportunity or the knowledge of how to stand up and be strong. many many people have that happen to them because of treatment in their childhood.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Thanks Designer for saying what you did to Mrs. Somma.
> 
> In a debate, when you belittle the opponent, you lost.
> 
> I don't agree with Mrs. Somma but I credit her with not stooping to meanness now.


You and Designer are much more tolerant and generous than I am. I refuse to allow Joey to spew her filth unchallenged - regardless of how abused she was as a child. She relishes posting provocative and erroneous "facts" specifically aimed at trashing the President and liberals. A lot of her posts are clearly, deliberately, intended to inflame and incite. And a lot of them are blatantly false.

Some falsehoods must be called out.

I don't feel sorry for her in the least. She knows EXACTLY what she is doing.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You and Designer are much more tolerant and generous than I am. I refuse to allow Joey to spew her filth unchallenged - regardless of how abused she was as a child. She relishes posting provocative and erroneous "facts" specifically aimed at trashing the President and liberals. A lot of her posts are clearly, deliberately, intended to inflame and incite. And a lot of them are blatantly false.
> 
> Some falsehoods must be called out.
> 
> I don't feel sorry for her in the least. She knows EXACTLY what she is doing.


you may be right Green, but for me I just remember the feelings inside and I know from her history that is where her absolute inability to see anything but what she has been led to believe. I certainly agree with you about the results, but I just don't have the stomach to take her on - I haven't very often because of my feelings and so I even though I will tell her I believe she is wrong, I am know there are lots here who have no problem arguing - I just do.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> you may be right Green, but for me I just remember the feelings inside and I know from her history that is where her absolute inability to see anything but what she has been led to believe. I certainly agree with you about the results, but I just don't have the stomach to take her on - I haven't very often because of my feelings and so I even though I will tell her I believe she is wrong, I am know there are lots here who have no problem arguing - I just do.


Your observation is correct. She can see nothing but what she has been led to believe.

I often ignore her posts for the very reasons you state. I don't want to invest any emotional energy into a lost cause. Sometimes her nonsense simply MUST be challenged. You might want to check out her recent Obama thread for an example of one of her more egregious statements - it was without a doubt intended to jab and poke at liberals and it was an outright, easily identifiable lie. Pisses me off because this is a public, international forum and some might believe her lies.

As I said, you display far more grace than I can muster when it comes to that woman.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Your observation is correct. She can see nothing but what she has been led to believe.
> 
> I often ignore her posts for the very reasons you state. I don't want to invest any emotional energy into a lost cause. Sometimes her nonsense simply MUST be challenged. You might want to check out her recent Obama thread for an example of one of her more egregious statements - it was without a doubt intended to jab and poke at liberals and it was an outright, easily identifiable lie. Pisses me off because this is a public, international forum and some might believe her lies.As I said, you display far more grace than I can muster when it comes to that woman.


I hate the close mindedness too but she thrives on getting a rise out of us. Nothing is going to stop her except ignoring her. I don't expect to try to convince you -- that isn't my wish or objective. I just get sad feelings when I read her posts as she is a person who doesn't even know she is damaged at lease that is my feeling - I know she doesn't think so and would likely have a fit if she read this, but I also know what goes on inside someone who has been abused like that. I know so many from that same background and just escaped it myself. She was taught she HAD to believe everything or she would be evil and an outcast. So she does what she feels she has to do.

I don't want you to feel I am going against this group, for me it is very personal.

I would never try to influence anyone to do what doesn't feel right to them. However, I have to do what feels right to me.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Your observation is correct. She can see nothing but what she has been led to believe.
> 
> I often ignore her posts for the very reasons you state. I don't want to invest any emotional energy into a lost cause. Sometimes her nonsense simply MUST be challenged. You might want to check out her recent Obama thread for an example of one of her more egregious statements - it was without a doubt intended to jab and poke at liberals and it was an outright, easily identifiable lie. Pisses me off because this is a public, international forum and some might believe her lies.
> As I said, you display far more grace than I can muster when it comes to that woman.


I hate the close mindedness too but she thrives on getting a rise out of us. Nothing is going to stop her except ignoring her. I don't expect to try to convince you -- that isn't my wish or objective. I just get sad feelings when I read her posts as she is a person who doesn't even know she is damaged at lease that is my feeling - I know she doesn't think so and would likely have a fit if she read this, but I also know what goes on inside someone who has been abused like that. I know so many from that same background and just escaped it myself. She was taught she HAD to believe everything or she would be evil and an outcast. So she does what she feels she has to do.

I don't want you to feel I am going against this group, for me it is very personal.

I would never try to influence anyone to do what doesn't feel right to them. However, I have to do what feels right to me.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

> I hate the close mindedness too but she thrives on getting a rise out of us. Nothing is going to stop her except ignoring her. I don't expect to try to convince you -- that isn't my wish or objective. I just get sad feelings when I read her posts as she is a person who doesn't even know she is damaged at lease that is my feeling - I know she doesn't think so and would likely have a fit if she read this, but I also know what goes on inside someone who has been abused like that. I know so many from that same background and just escaped it myself. She was taught she HAD to believe everything or she would be evil and an outcast. So she does what she feels she has to do.


Believing in religion is one thing - deliberately seeking out propaganda is another. She has a choice in this regard and refuses to take advantage of all the legitimate information available to her.

But as you say, ignoring her is the only effective tactic in her case. For the moment I must respond to her; I'll get back to ignoring her soon.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Believing in religion is one thing - deliberately seeking out propaganda is another. She has a choice in this regard and refuses to take advantage of all the legitimate information available to her.
> 
> But as you say, ignoring her is the only effective tactic in her case. For the moment I must respond to her; I'll get back to ignoring her soon.


I do know you are likely right but I also thinks she feels pretty good when we all attack and then her friends stand up for her. It is a really weird thing, this verbal abuse with children. Each of us react in different ways. I am not sure I am correct but unless it is so far out that I have to answer I think I will let her posts go. She isn't going to stop, look at the hundreds of abortion posts, over and over. I think it makes her feel good that isn't great either. The more she gets under people's skin the more she feels that she is proving she is right even though she isn't.

Anyway, I don't want to upset anyone - each of us has to do with what we think is right for us.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Peter Sellers, bah...can't think of the names...guy who played Patton. Peter Sellers (he had 4 or 5 roles) Slim Pickens, Glen Beck (no, not THAT one, but would have been a perfect role for him).


That's the one, Judy. Slim Pickens was the guy who was riding the bomb.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

This is what women are up against when it comes to felony ignorant legislators:

http://national.suntimes.com/national-politics/7/72/691314/idaho-lawmaker-reveals-clue-female-anatomy

He should have no problem giving himself a prostate exam since his head is clearly up his ass.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> This is what women are up against when it comes to felony ignorant legislators:
> 
> http://national.suntimes.com/national-politics/7/72/691314/idaho-lawmaker-reveals-clue-female-anatomy
> 
> He should have no problem giving himself a prostate exam since his head is clearly up his ass.


Men who know nothing about anatomy (and in this case holds true for both gender's anatomy) sitting on a pregnancy crisis council? I wonder if there are ANY women on that board. I'll bet not.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Does it seem to anyone else that these idiots only know about one piece of anatomy? Their dicks.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> This is what women are up against when it comes to felony ignorant legislators:
> 
> http://national.suntimes.com/national-politics/7/72/691314/idaho-lawmaker-reveals-clue-female-anatomy
> 
> He should have no problem giving himself a prostate exam since his head is clearly up his ass.


Who is that stupid?!?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Men who know nothing about anatomy (and in this case holds true for both gender's anatomy) sitting on a pregnancy crisis council? I wonder if there are ANY women on that board. I'll bet not.


It pays to remember what the real meaning of "Pregnancy Crisis Center" is.

These organizations have one purpose and one purpose only: To prevent women with unplanned pregnancies from getting abortions. They counsel ONLY against abortion. They make wild promises about assistance available to women to give birth and keep their babies (which they encourage) when it amounts to little more than a diaper bag and a months' supply of diapers.

They show women, some of them very fearful, grotesque photos of dismembered fetuses and tell them how much pain the "baby" suffered. In many cases they functionally imprison the woman for however long it takes to deliver their "message." Their training is heavily laced with teaching methods of coercion.

They are almost universally backed by Christian organizations, primarily the Catholic Church.

So, the qualifications for being on the board of such an organization deals with the person's religious fervor - not their knowledge or desire to help women.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Who is that stupid?!?


Evidently the voters in Idaho.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> It pays to remember what the real meaning of "Pregnancy Crisis Center" is.
> 
> These organizations have one purpose and one purpose only: To prevent women with unplanned pregnancies from getting abortions. They counsel ONLY against abortion. They make wild promises about assistance available to women to give birth and keep their babies (which they encourage) when it amounts to little more than a diaper bag and a months' supply of diapers.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I really need to keep reminding myself that a woman's right to choose should be kept where it belongs...between her husband and her priest.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah, I really need to keep reminding myself that a woman's right to choose should be kept where it belongs...between her husband and her priest.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Wasn't that Peter Sellers?


Sellers played the Doctor (plus 2 or 3 other characters); Sgt. Bat Guano was played by Keenan Wynn (she insisted before realizing her memory is often faulty).


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sellers played the Doctor (plus 2 or 3 other characters); Sgt. Bat Guano was played by Keenan Wynn (she insisted before realizing her memory is often faulty).


Memory's fine. After not being able to remember George C. Scott's name, I looked up the cast.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Peter Sellers, bah...can't think of the names...guy who played Patton. Peter Sellers (he had 4 or 5 roles) Slim Pickens, Glen Beck (no, not THAT one, but would have been a perfect role for him).


Yes, the one who played Patton. George something? His character was, I think, Jack D. Ripper, or was that Sterling Hayden? In an hour I'll remember his name. But how did Glen Beck get in here? John Glenn?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Memory's fine. After not being able to remember George C. Scott's name, I looked up the cast.


I usually do look things up, but it bothered me that I couldn't recall George C. Scott, esp. since I remembered that he was once married to Colleen Dewhurst, which for some reason I didn't forget.

Anyway, after I sent you the link, I watched the first 15 minutes. That refueling sequence at the beginning is just as funny now as it was back then.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Does it seem to anyone else that these idiots only know about one piece of anatomy? Their dicks.


I would assume that all of those old idiots are Mr. Softees now.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah, I really need to keep reminding myself that a woman's right to choose should be kept where it belongs...between her husband and her priest.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Memory's fine. After not being able to remember George C. Scott's name, I looked up the cast.


That's who played Patton in the movie!!!. I knew the face but for the life of me couldn't remember his name. (Geriatric moment?)

He did an excellent job too. Excellent actor! thanks Judy thought about it last night in bed and finally just gave up.

Oh well, the joys of getting old!

Oh by the way I just saw someone mention Colleen Dewhurst who by the way is one of the many many successful actors who is Canadian. When I first went to Kingston and Toronto immediately after I left home, I got into drama with the United Church Young peoples and we took plays all over Southern Ontario. When I moved to Toronto I joined an Acting group run by Lorne Green (another Canadian) (the father in bonanza a few years later) and Colleen Dewhurst was also in that class. It was called the Harte House Theatre - Christopher Plumber was a guest actor for one of our plays (a real ladies man and, by the way another Canadian although he talked like a Brit - still does.

We took 'As you like it - to the Stratford Ontario Shakespear festival one of the years I was a member. I absolutely loved that group and acting. Mom got sick and I came home and that was the end of that. Kate Reid, William Shatner (ugh) and many others were visiting actors most who were just starting out. Quite a few went to the states including Colleen Dewhurst (Murphy's Mom) Shatner, Lorne Green (or Greene (I am not sure what is the correct spelling of his name)(Bonanza), and others. It was a good time in my life. Went home, and a year or so later met Pat and ended up back in Ontario only Camp Borden near Barrie. That whole class did very well, and I often wished I had carried on with Drama but life got in the way.

During the war Lorne Green was 'the voice of doom' on the radio as he gave the war news. He did well in radio and then started Harte House Theatre.

I hope this didn't bore you all. I got so much out of Acting and drama lessons - mainly confidence, and had sooo much fun!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> That's who played Patton in the movie!!!. I knew the face but for the life of me couldn't remember his name. (Geriatric moment?)
> 
> He did an excellent job too. Excellent actor! thanks Judy thought about it last night in bed and finally just gave up.
> 
> Oh well, the joys of getting old!


It's turning out funny that I'm not the only one who couldn't remember his name.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I found an article on delayed interval births but four months seems a stretch. Still - if mother had a double uterus and got pregnant at different times...? Indeed, a mystery.
> 
> http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2422/can-twins-be-born-a-month-or-two-apart
> 
> So sorry the paper reported such a horrible thing. I'd be ticked, too.


I told my sister it could have been the "hired girl." They always talked about the the hired girl and I never thought to ask more about her. Maybe Grandpa played around a bit! Things like that would have been swept under the rug and the man of the house was in charge in those days, and could do what he wanted. He died when I was very little so I never knew him. Sure wish we had figured this out while my Mother was still alive.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You've mentioned those 4-months-apart brothers before. That's a real mystery.
> 
> The newspaper should have been sued beyond an inch of its life (it's probably no longer alive now, anyway). Where do they come off making a speculation like that?


That is another one of those things never talked about, but Mom saved the newspaper clipping about Uncle Jack. My niece has been interested lately in researching her ancestors and she noticed the birth dates and asked her Mom, and neither my sister or I had noticed it and now there is no one to ask. I still have an uncle living, but no one speaks to him.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> This is what women are up against when it comes to felony ignorant legislators:
> 
> http://national.suntimes.com/national-politics/7/72/691314/idaho-lawmaker-reveals-clue-female-anatomy
> 
> He should have no problem giving himself a prostate exam since his head is clearly up his ass.


I heard Rachel talk about him last night. She said they also talked about a baby coming out of a woman's tummy. They understand about as much as a two year old, evidently.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> I heard Rachel talk about him last night. She said they also talked about a baby coming out of a woman's tummy. They understand about as much as a two year old, evidently.


That idiot Rachel talked about was something else! He wanted to know if a woman's pregnancy could be checked by having her swallow a tiny camera like they now can do for a colonoscopy. 
Maybe we should require some basic standardized testing for candidates seeking office.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah, I really need to keep reminding myself that a woman's right to choose should be kept where it belongs...between her husband and her priest.


And her congressman. Don't forget him.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> And her congressman. Don't forget him.


But her congress critter won't say anything or get involved unless the woman has the temerity to insist that it's HER body.

I think Lysistrata should be required reading for all girls starting at the onset of their first period. It might be about war, but relevant in this case.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> That idiot Rachel talked about was something else! He wanted to know if a woman's pregnancy could be checked by having her swallow a tiny camera like they now can do for a colonoscopy.
> Maybe we should require some basic standardized testing for candidates seeking office.


I think they should be required to test out of some basic information especially before they get appointed to a committee. They say they are not scientists, but they spew their lack of knowledge as if they know what they are talking about. There was even a woman congress person that said a rape kit cleans a woman out so they won't get pregnant. They are all idiots. They and the insurance companies make all kinds of decisions they are not qualified to make.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> That idiot Rachel talked about was something else! He wanted to know if a woman's pregnancy could be checked by having her swallow a tiny camera like they now can do for a colonoscopy.
> Maybe we should require some basic standardized testing for candidates seeking office.


Like the Common Core? Problem is that the candidates are rotten to the core.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> I think they should be required to test out of some basic information especially before they get appointed to a committee. They say they are not scientists, but they spew their lack of knowledge as if they know what they are talking about. There was even a woman congress person that said a rape kit cleans a woman out so they won't get pregnant. They are all idiots. They and the insurance companies make all kinds of decisions they are not qualified to make.


A thorough psychiatric exam should also be mandatory.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> A thorough psychiatric exam should also be mandatory.


Including an IQ test.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Like the Common Core? Problem is that the candidates are rotten to the core.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> A thorough psychiatric exam should also be mandatory.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Couldn't hurt.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Satire alert. Now you go too far.



Poor Purl said:


> Including an IQ test.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Bernie Sanders on what the Koch brothers want:

What people dont know is: What do these guys stand for? What do they want? Sanders continued. And the truth is, they are radical right-wing extremists who in the past have made it clear they want to end Social Security, they want to end Medicare, they want to end Medicaid, they want to end public education, they want more tax breaks for the rich and large corporations, they want no limits at all on campaign financing  they think Citizens United has not gone far enough, and they want to be able to make direct contributions to candidates at every level of government. 

This is a radical right-wing extremist agenda, and if we dont stop them, this country is going to go back to the 1920s, where virtually every piece of legislation that we have passed since FDR has been killed and eliminated, including Social Security.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Bernie Sanders on what the Koch brothers want:
> 
> What people dont know is: What do these guys stand for? What do they want? Sanders continued. And the truth is, they are radical right-wing extremists who in the past have made it clear they want to end Social Security, they want to end Medicare, they want to end Medicaid, they want to end public education, they want more tax breaks for the rich and large corporations, they want no limits at all on campaign financing  they think Citizens United has not gone far enough, and they want to be able to make direct contributions to candidates at every level of government.
> 
> This is a radical right-wing extremist agenda, and if we dont stop them, this country is going to go back to the 1920s, where virtually every piece of legislation that we have passed since FDR has been killed and eliminated, including Social Security.


Oh dear, I wish I could volunteer to help! You all hang in there. the 'foreigners' will cheer for you ! I think the American People are too smart to accept all these things, as long as they know what to expect. I don't trust them to be honest about what they want to achieve. Good luck to you all.

Showing my ignorance -- when will those runnng announce that they are going to jump in? Am I correct it will be in the last year of His Presidency? or will it be before that? When is his 2nd term finished (I should know that but am not sure exactly when)


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh dear, I wish I could volunteer to help! You all hang in there. the 'foreigners' will cheer for you ! I think the American People are too smart to accept all these things, as long as they know what to expect. I don't trust them to be honest about what they want to achieve. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Showing my ignorance -- when will those runnng announce that they are going to jump in? Am I correct it will be in the last year of His Presidency? or will it be before that? When is his 2nd term finished (I should know that but am not sure exactly when)


There are no rules. Each "hopeful" does whatever they want. Years ago, campaigning for the Presidency would start early in the election year, but nowadays the media (I think because they have so darn much airtime to fill) starts speculating about the next election before the current one has been decided! Of course, those who hope to run in future elections posture and pontificate and try to maneuver their way into prominence years before.

Candidates sometimes form committees tasked to gauge public opinion and raise money. Sometimes they just announce their intentions, especially if they are very wealthy and can try to buy the presidency out of their petty cash fund.

My personal prediction about who will run in 2016? We'll see a lot of posturing by people like Ted Cruz, Chris Christy, Rand Paul, Perry...the list is long. The sooner they announce, the sooner they will be eliminated. I think of them as forming a circular firing squad. At some point they cannot control events or their own mouths and they self-destruct. Of course, each one thinks they can control their campaign and they are usually wrong if they start too soon. Too many opportunities to mis-speak, get caught saying "f**k" with the microphone on or get caught in the mistress' bed. The actual candidates will probably be someone we haven't even heard of at this point.

On the Democratic side, I fear it will be Hillary. I don't like Hillary. She's a "good old boy" and a total political creature. She's much too cozy with bankers, big business and oil companies. Maybe we can draft Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, but Warren is so effective in congress I'd almost hate to see her move up. Sanders is an Independent which may be something the Dems can't gag down. Might be a very good choice if he will consent to run that gauntlet.

Of course, each party holds a nominating convention which nowadays is just a dog and pony show with few surprises. Lots of partying, drinking, womanizing and bluster, interspersed with rallies to whip up enthusiasm. And that's just the delegates. The idea is to lay out their "platform" of issues on which they wish to take a position, then nominate someone the party can support and elect and who more or less conforms to their stated ideology - which has been hammered out behind closed doors by the party heavyweights. Selecting a vice-presidential running mate has been elevated to a science of demographics and electability. No one seems to care whether the vice president is qualified to run the country or not (just in case) so long as that person can "balance" the ticket and GET ELECTED. The convention takes place in the summer prior to the November election. By then the media has conducted endless polls and has driven the public to the brink of madness with their talking heads telling us what we think.

After that, things get really ugly.

President Obama will remain in office until his successor is sworn in sometime around the third week of January, 2017.

Because terms for the House and Senate are staggered, empty seats vary each election. In 2016, there will be MANY seats up for election. Going out on a limb here by predicting a Democratic takeover of both houses in 2016. Democrats tend to crawl out of their hiding places for presidential elections and even though we are not hearing much from them right now, I guarantee they are pissed. Heads will roll in 2016 - and a lot of them will be republicans. Along with a few who are Democrats in name only and are voting with the Repubs. They are doing so at their own peril because we are watching and taking names.

Green will be pounding the neighborhoods of Payson, Arizona, trying to get people to the polls.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There are no rules. Each "hopeful" does whatever they want. Years ago, campaigning for the Presidency would start early in the election year, but nowadays the media (I think because they have so darn much airtime to fill) starts speculating about the next election before the current one has been decided! Of course, those who hope to run in future elections posture and pontificate and try to maneuver their way into prominence years before.
> 
> Candidates sometimes form committees tasked to gauge public opinion and raise money. Sometimes they just announce their intentions, especially if they are very wealthy and can try to buy the presidency out of their petty cash fund.
> 
> ...


Thanks for letting me know what to expect. I was hesitant in asking as I know I should know all the answers.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks for letting me know what to expect. I was hesitant in asking as I know I should know all the answers.


Why should you know when we certainly don't?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks for letting me know what to expect. I was hesitant in asking as I know I should know all the answers.


You can't be expected to know the answers! I'm in awe of your extensive knowledge of US politics and news. Believe me, we in the States don't take nearly as much interest in other countries as you Canadians and the Aussies do. That's part of our problem, Darlin'.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You can't be expected to know the answers! I'm in awe of your extensive knowledge of US politics and news. Believe me, we in the States don't take nearly as much interest in other countries as you Canadians and the Aussies do. That's part of our problem, Darlin'.


Thanks, I am not very familiar with the current people running or being quoted. I know who some of the weirdos on the right are - Cruz, and a few others (how could you miss them). I am well aware of Hilary and those in power now but the nitty gritty of your current politics no.

I just feel strongly about the lies and the plan to sink everything Obama wanted to do - and their dislike and hate for him.'

As far as the rest I have been interested in the US and Canada since the war and I have opinions about a lot of things that have happened in both countries. I also am quite familiar with our health care system, but only on a personal basis. I have been interested in your country since the war and it has carried on all my life. I am really pleased I have met you all and that you treat me as if what I have to say can contribute. Once again, you are my friends.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks, I am not very familiar with the current people running or being quoted. I know who some of the weirdos on the right are - Cruz, and a few others (how could you miss them). I am well aware of Hilary and those in power now but the nitty gritty of your current politics no.
> 
> I just feel strongly about the lies and the plan to sink everything Obama wanted to do - and their dislike and hate for him.'
> 
> As far as the rest I have been interested in the US and Canada since the war and I have opinions about a lot of things that have happened in both countries. I also am quite familiar with our health care system, but only on a personal basis. I have been interested in your country since the war and it has carried on all my life. I am really pleased I have met you all and that you treat me as if what I have to say can contribute. Once again, you are my friends.


That goes both ways, Designer. I know I consider you a friend - and someone I admire for having the integrity to speak the truth.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> That goes both ways, Designer. I know I consider you a friend - and someone I admire for having the integrity to speak the truth.


I would like to add my respect in that each of you has the intelligence and perceptiveness to see the truth.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would like to add my respect in that each of you has the intelligence and perceptiveness to see the truth.


That is very kind. My problem is to not get too much of my experience in the way. Green and I are on the same page about a lot of things. It is easy for me to say, let it go, I don't have as much at stake as all of you do The Aussies from 'down under' are both much better 'searchers' than I am - I admire both of them for their knowledge which is backed often by writings etc. I rarely do much of that but as I have lived through a lot of things I think that is where I feel most comfortable about expressing my feelings. Each of us on this thread contribute in our own way.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There are no rules. Each "hopeful" does whatever they want. Years ago, campaigning for the Presidency would start early in the election year, but nowadays the media (I think because they have so darn much airtime to fill) starts speculating about the next election before the current one has been decided! Of course, those who hope to run in future elections posture and pontificate and try to maneuver their way into prominence years before.
> 
> Candidates sometimes form committees tasked to gauge public opinion and raise money. Sometimes they just announce their intentions, especially if they are very wealthy and can try to buy the presidency out of their petty cash fund.
> 
> ...


=========
So different than the Canadian elections. The Prime Minister sets the date for an Election usually 3 or 4 months. People announce the are running and start campaining. Each person has to win their own riding. Once in awhile the person running in the Primeminister's riding loses and one of the other members will give up his seat for the Prime Minister. There are 3 parties, Conservative (not as right wing as your conservatives (although there are some), the Liberals and the New Democratic Party. The party that wins the most seats becomes the Government - It doesn't take us very long. So, if the NDP wins more seats than the Conservative from all the individual elections across the country, they will form the government. Usually either the conservatives or the Liberals win and make up the Government.

Meanwhile if a Province has a majority, even if it is different than the whole country the person who wins would be the Premier, much like your Governors. Alberta has always been Strongly Conservative and in the past few years the Conservatives have also won enough seats from other Provinces to form the Government. However each Province could have a different party Provincial leader who would be the Premier of that Province. Not nearly as awkward as your elections in my opinion. Ours only take 3 or 4 months and it is decided.

I used to vote LIberal in the Federal Election but have lost faith in the Liberal leaders who have been mostly Friench and quite partisan. I don't have a lot of problem with a Conservative Prime Minister as our Liberal leader right now is the son of Pierre Trudeau who was not very well liked in the west. Toronto and Quebec have more ridings because of their population. There is slowly a change happening in my opinion. Our Conservative Government is influenced quite strongly by your Conservatives recently ,so many liberals are starting to think seriously about giving Trudeau a try.

Harper, our Prime Minister is a very strong man and has complete control of his party. I notice here that people are slowly looking for another alternative. The New Democrats are a labour party but I do like their leader he is smart and quite a good second party ( His party beat the liberals last election. I would not be surprised if he gets a lot more votes this next election. That is my experience in a a nutshell. Much less 
time consuming and much quicker and straightforward than your elections. I can't figure out half of your Political system to be honest. There is a much stronger difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives there. The Conservatives include most of the far right and born again Christians as it does here but there hasn't been the overwhelming feeling that they want to change the whole history of Canada the way I feel they want to do there.

That is a non political explanation of our system. If you wish to learn more google, Canadian elections - how do they work. I just wrote this from my own experience . I think that many Canadians are much more knowledgeble about the exact way every thing is done here than I am.

Obama just vetoed the pipe line a few minute ago.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would like to add my respect in that each of you has the intelligence and perceptiveness to see the truth.


How kind of you, Marilyn. I only wish I knew the truth. I'm learning all the time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

November 2016 will be next Presidential election, but the campaigning will start with Iowa caucus. Each state elects delegates to cast the actual votes for president. Sometimes you will hear them called 'Electoral College.' It was designed from the beginning to prevent large, populous states from having all the power. There is always some debate about it because it is possible to win the popular vote and lose the electoral vote. In that case, the electoral vote wins.



 Designer1234 said:


> Oh dear, I wish I could volunteer to help! You all hang in there. the 'foreigners' will cheer for you ! I think the American People are too smart to accept all these things, as long as they know what to expect. I don't trust them to be honest about what they want to achieve. Good luck to you all.
> 
> Showing my ignorance -- when will those runnng announce that they are going to jump in? Am I correct it will be in the last year of His Presidency? or will it be before that? When is his 2nd term finished (I should know that but am not sure exactly when)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> You can't be expected to know the answers! I'm in awe of your extensive knowledge of US politics and news. Believe me, we in the States don't take nearly as much interest in other countries as you Canadians and the Aussies do. That's part of our problem, Darlin'.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> That goes both ways, Designer. I know I consider you a friend - and someone I admire for having the integrity to speak the truth.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


you are one of my 'bestest' friends ever, Dame -


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders very much, but I don't think either would be elected. And, I still won't be surprised if Hilliary decides not to run. Time will tell. IMHO


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders very much, but I don't think either would be elected. And, I still won't be surprised if Hilliary decides not to run. Time will tell. IMHO


I too like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. I do not think Elizabeth Warren will run and her lack of foreign policy knowledge may be part of that. I definitely see her as a candidate in the future though. I think Bernie Sanders will definitely run if Hillary doesn't and may run if she does and he doesn't like her platform. 
Those on the right it is hard to tell. Remember when Michelle Bachman was in the lead :thumbdown: Ron Paul said the reason the Black Caucus was against war was because they wanted that money to go to food stamps. I can't believe his son wants him saying things like that. The last republican primary and debates were like a three ring circus and they said this one would be different, but it is sure starting out the same way. 
Now we have terrorist threats against the Mall of America and some republicans think it is the right time to shut down the Department of Homeland Security. Their stupidity is amazing.
I made a lot of phone calls for President Obama, one of the worst jobs, because most people have cell phones and when it says who is calling, they don't answer. Once in awhile you get a grumpy old republican, who is nasty with you, but you actually talk to very few people. 
I went and had an epidural in my back today, and he said I could get one every 3 months, so even though that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, maybe I could go door knocking the next time. We shall see.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I think it was on Rachel last night she was talking about the democrats have a plan for taking over a lot of the state governments by 2020 as that is the year redistricting will be done. Without that being done, I don't think democrats have much of a chance in the house and senate. I have heard some states under republican rule talking about how they distribute their electoral votes. If they start messing with that too democrats are in big trouble. That is another reason why they must win back the states.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> I like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders very much, but I don't think either would be elected. And, I still won't be surprised if Hilliary decides not to run. Time will tell. IMHO


Saw the news today featuring Hillary speaking to a group. She has a new hairdo, a more flattering pants suit, and appears to be "rebranding" herself as more of an advocate for women's rights and less as one of the "good old boys".

She has so much history that goes against her, I wonder whether she has a chance to be elected. Depends upon whom the Repubs run. They have so many "bad old boys" that there is a chance women will be repelled in great numbers.

But there are so many women who are repressed and don't understand how downtrodden women and the poor really are in this country. Hope I live long enough to see what happens in the next election.

DH, ever the cynic, iterates that it is not as much how we each vote as who counts the votes. Chads, anyone? But at least we have some modicum of choice, unlike dictatorships. Not as much flexibility as parliamentarian systems, though. None of the systems is really ideal, but I doubt whether there can be any sort of ideal political system given the vagaries of human nature.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There are no rules. Each "hopeful" does whatever they want. Years ago, campaigning for the Presidency would start early in the election year, but nowadays the media (I think because they have so darn much airtime to fill) starts speculating about the next election before the current one has been decided! Of course, those who hope to run in future elections posture and pontificate and try to maneuver their way into prominence years before.
> 
> Candidates sometimes form committees tasked to gauge public opinion and raise money. Sometimes they just announce their intentions, especially if they are very wealthy and can try to buy the presidency out of their petty cash fund.
> 
> ...


I don't think Warren will run and I don't know if Bernie could be elected, probably because there aren't enough people who are liberal enough to get him elected. I think it'll be Hillary, although she's too much of a "republican light" for my taste. And that's probably what will make her "electable." Too much of a connection with Wall Street, although I would like to see a woman in the White House. My money is on Jeb Bush for the repubs and I think he's the candidate I fear the most because I think he could win. I hope one of the crackpots gets the nomination---easier to beat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Jeb has the baggage of his wife and his brother and he's not sure on his feet (yet?) I don't think he'd be a strong candidate either. IMHO



cookiequeen said:


> I don't think Warren will run and I don't know if Bernie could be elected, probably because there aren't enough people who are liberal enough to get him elected. I think it'll be Hillary, although she's too much of a "republican light" for my taste. And that's probably what will make her "electable." Too much of a connection with Wall Street, although I would like to see a woman in the White House. My money is on Jeb Bush for the repubs and I think he's the candidate I fear the most because I think he could win. I hope one of the crackpots gets the nomination---easier to beat.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Jeb has the baggage of his wife and his brother and he's not sure on his feet (yet?) I don't think he'd be a strong candidate either. IMHO


I think too many people would look at Jeb and say "Oh no, not another Bush". No matter how many Kochs would like him to be their puppet.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> How kind of you, Marilyn. I only wish I knew the truth. I'm learning all the time.


me too. I try to make sure people know it is my opinion of the truth. I am no expert on a lot of things we discuss here but I do have opinions! Greenknows a lot more than I do.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> me too. I try to make sure people know it is my opinion of the truth.


Opinion of the truth based on the facts. The "truth" might be a slippery thing but the facts are what they are.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Opinion of the truth based on the facts. The "truth" might be a slippery thing but the facts are what they are.


correct. I was trying to say that I am not an expert on US politics, I am more an expert on my opinions as they are what I believe from experience:wink: :wink:

I have enjoyed these threads as my feelings are much the same as everyone else here about most things.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> correct. I was trying to say that I am not an expert on US politics, I am more an expert on my opinions as they are what I believe from experience:wink: :wink:
> 
> I have enjoyed these threads as my feelings are much the same as everyone else here about most things.


And we enjoy your sharing your feelings and opinions with us Shirley. You are one of the gang.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Cheeks,

Tell us about your avatar. Did you paint it?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And we enjoy your sharing your feelings and opinions with us Shirley. You are one of the gang.


How's it going Cheeky -- nice to see you. Interesting week on the threads. Should get even more interesting as time goes by. We hope you will stay with us. S


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Cheeks,
> 
> Tell us about your avatar. Did you paint it?


Wish I could say I did paint it but I found it on Pinterest. It reminds me of our cat, Conan. He is a very sweet even tempered male and looks a lot like the painting. I often think he smiles and the picture captures that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> How's it going Cheeky -- nice to see you. Interesting week on the threads. Should get even more interesting as time goes by. We hope you will stay with us. S


It's going well, Shirley. I will definitely be hanging around out here on the threads. I'm expecting things to get much more heated the closer we get to the elections and we will have to do everything we can to ensure our candidates stay in office and that we replace the ones that need to go. Things are already getting ugly so we are going to have to have some pretty tough skin to deal with the right and not let their nonsense bother us. We are holding the winning cards we just need to play them correctly. :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> me too. I try to make sure people know it is my opinion of the truth. I am no expert on a lot of things we discuss here but I do have opinions! Greenknows a lot more than I do.


No, Green does NOT know more than you! We all have our areas where we have some knowledge but I learn something every time I read posts here.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The president will be in a Town Hall tonight on MSNBC at 7 eastern time, discussing immigration.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What would we call him? Bush III?



jbandsma said:


> I think too many people would look at Jeb and say "Oh no, not another Bush". No matter how many Kochs would like him to be their puppet.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How about the 'new' idea of shutting down Homeland Security? Hey, why not the entire government? It'll probably work this time. Right.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's going well, Shirley. I will definitely be hanging around out here on the threads. I'm expecting things to get much more heated the closer we get to the elections and we will have to do everything we can to ensure our candidates stay in office and that we replace the ones that need to go. Things are already getting ugly so we are going to have to have some pretty tough skin to deal with the right and not let their nonsense bother us. We are holding the winning cards we just need to play them correctly. :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> How about the 'new' idea of shutting down Homeland Security? Hey, why not the entire government? It'll probably work this time. Right.


Pretty stupid I think. The Mall of America is threatened, three guys arrested in New York and they want to shut it down. They definitely have their heads up their a$$, again or yet.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I watched the president tonight at his town hall and one thing made me very happy. He really gave it to them and people in general for not voting. He talked about the 1/3 that did vote and talked about the young people who didn't vote, some of them probably right there in the audience, I am sure, and then they have questions about how am I going to keep my family from being deported. All those born in the us are citizens and have the right to vote as soon as they are old enough. I was glad to hear him do that. One young man enlisted when he was 17, had to have his mother sign for him because he wasn't old enough. Now that he is home they want to deport his mother and can because the idiot judge halted the executive action he took. 

Sounds like the senate will vote on Lauretta Lynch tomorrow and they may vote against her. They hate Eric Holder, but they must want him to stay. What is their plan? Will she be approved or not.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm thinking the same way. Are they trying to make it easier for the terrorists? I'm dumbstruck.



NJG said:


> Pretty stupid I think. The Mall of America is threatened, three guys arrested in New York and they want to shut it down. They definitely have their heads up their a$$, again or yet.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We'll just have to wait and see. There is no thought process behind their actions. I'd think it would be easy to toss these guys out, but the Tea Party has influence. What is going on?



NJG said:


> I watched the president tonight at his town hall and one thing made me very happy. He really gave it to them and people in general for not voting. He talked about the 1/3 that did vote and talked about the young people who didn't vote, some of them probably right there in the audience, I am sure, and then they have questions about how am I going to keep my family from being deported. All those born in the us are citizens and have the right to vote as soon as they are old enough. I was glad to hear him do that. One young man enlisted when he was 17, had to have his mother sign for him because he wasn't old enough. Now that he is home they want to deport his mother and can because the idiot judge halted the executive action he took.
> 
> Sounds like the senate will vote on Lauretta Lynch tomorrow and they may vote against her. They hate Eric Holder, but they must want him to stay. What is their plan? Will she be approved or not.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm thinking the same way. Are they trying to make it easier for the terrorists? I'm dumbstruck.


They're hoping for another attack so they can blame it on Obama. The same way they blame him for Benghazi even though it was their action that reduced embassy security everywhere but especially in seriously risky places.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> They're hoping for another attack so they can blame it on Obama. The same way they blame him for Benghazi even though it was their action that reduced embassy security everywhere but especially in seriously risky places.


I am afraid you are probably right. :thumbdown: :-(


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What?


One of the first things Republican politicians do when they win local elections..."we've got to put GOD back in the schools". Meaning, of course, that they need someone to preach their religion at a captive audience.

GOD was never taken out of schools. As someone once said, as long as there are math tests, kids will pray. What has been taken out is one person's (any adult in authority, not just one specific person) ability to proselytize without dissent. And you can bet the 'god' they want in the schools is Jesus and NO OTHER.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> One of the first things Republican politicians do when they win local elections..."we've got to put GOD back in the schools". Meaning, of course, that they need someone to preach their religion at a captive audience.
> 
> GOD was never taken out of schools. As someone once said, as long as there are math tests, kids will pray. What has been taken out is one person's (any adult in authority, not just one specific person) ability to proselytize without dissent. And you can bet the 'god' they want in the schools is Jesus and NO OTHER.


Anyone can pray in school--just not out loud


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> How about the 'new' idea of shutting down Homeland Security? Hey, why not the entire government? It'll probably work this time. Right.


With the world in so much turmoil, I can't believe that Boehner would let this become an issue. He went against the Logan Act by inviting Netanyahu.
So, now we have the leader of Israel coming to visit and no Homeland Security funds. This man (Boehner) has to get control of his caucus and stop playing with our safety, wasting our money, and stop being an a--hole in general.
The way House Repubs are behaving will come back to bite them in the arse in 2016. Presidential elections as we all know bring more people to the polls than the mid terms.
Yes, they won both houses but have failed to do anything or even present a decent bill that would benefit Americans. This is their time to shine, but instead they look like a bunch of school boys at the chalk board with nothing to write.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/08/israeli-official-boehner-netanyahu-conspired-to-defy-humiliate-president-obama.html


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What?


That is great, Cheeky!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I have just received an email, inviting me to a book discussion. The book looks very interesting and I was wondering if any of you have read it. Unfortunately, the meeting is quite a distance from where I live and I do not drive long distances at night these days. I must look into the book though.

I think it raises a very important question.

How can we make intelligent decisions about our increasingly technology-driven lives if we don't understand the difference between the myths of pseudoscience and the testable hypotheses of science?

details of the discussion are posted below.

Bookclub 26: The Demon Haunted World, by Carl Sagan
	Export 
	Tell a friend 
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	Tuesday, March 3, 2015
7:00 PM
	Diana's place
99 Essex Street, Wembley, Perth (map)
 
Carl Sagan's classic book on skepticism will be discussed this bookclub.
"How can we make intelligent decisions about our increasingly technology-driven lives if we don't understand the difference between the myths of pseudoscience and the testable hypotheses of science? Pulitzer Prize-winning author and distinguished astronomer Carl Sagan argues that scientific thinking is critical not only to the pursuit of truth but to the very well-being of our democratic institutions.
Casting a wide net through history and culture, Sagan examines and authoritatively debunks such celebrated fallacies of the past as witchcraft, faith healing, demons, and UFOs. And yet, disturbingly, in today's so-called information age, pseudoscience is burgeoning with stories of alien abduction, channeling past lives, and communal hallucinations commanding growing attention and respect. As Sagan demonstrates with lucid eloquence, the siren song of unreason is not just a cultural wrong turn but a dangerous plunge into darkness that threatens our most basic freedoms."

Snacks will be provided but you are welcome to bring something to share. 
The book is available in Boffins bookshop in Perth and also Bookdepository: http://www.bookdepository.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Carl-Sagan/9780345409461


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry EveeeeeeM but I cannot attend. All the fun topics are on Sagan's no-no list.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just received an email, inviting me to a book discussion. The book looks very interesting and I was wondering if any of you have read it. Unfortunately, the meeting is quite a distance from where I live and I do not drive long distances at night these days. I must look into the book though.
> 
> I think it raises a very important question.
> 
> ...


GREAT book. Raises a lot of issues in a readable and understandable manner. The uber religious, however, hate this one (and Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors) with a drooling passion. Mainly because it makes you think.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks for the book reference, Eve. I just put a reserve on it. And as long as I was at it, also the one you recommended, Judy. Thanks both. Time I read something serious. We are doing a discussion of cozies at the book group next month, and I need a break from Agatha Raisin and Goldie Bear.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

We should start a book club on this thread. I will get the book also. Would someone set a date and time for discussion? I don't mind doing that if anyone is interested in having a book club. Reactions please.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Be a few days before my reserve comes in from a different branch, but I am game say in about a month?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Be a few days before my reserve comes in from a different branch, but I am game say in about a month?


I ordered the book from Book Depository, it should take about a week to arrive. Quicker than awaiting for an inter library loan.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> We should start a book club on this thread. I will get the book also. Would someone set a date and time for discussion? I don't mind doing that if anyone is interested in having a book club. Reactions please.


Sorry, I already have more reading to do than I have time for. Plus in one class we were assigned the task of attending a performance by the Martha Graham Dance Co. and writing a review (okay, I didn't do the writing). Also, our apartment is being painted in 2 weeks, and soon after that it's Passover. If I don't join you, I hope you understand.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Be a few days before my reserve comes in from a different branch, but I am game say in about a month?


Okay ladies,

Ms. Marilyn called for a month but I may be out of town on March 26. Would the 30th of March work? Please RSVP.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And they have offended Hispanics, women, patriots, veterans, Israelis and just about any other group you can name. Oh, except dumbells. I really don't see them electing anyone, including dog catcher, next election. Am I missing something?



BrattyPatty said:


> With the world in so much turmoil, I can't believe that Boehner would let this become an issue. He went against the Logan Act by inviting Netanyahu.
> So, now we have the leader of Israel coming to visit and no Homeland Security funds. This man (Boehner) has to get control of his caucus and stop playing with our safety, wasting our money, and stop being an a--hole in general.
> The way House Repubs are behaving will come back to bite them in the arse in 2016. Presidential elections as we all know bring more people to the polls than the mid terms.
> Yes, they won both houses but have failed to do anything or even present a decent bill that would benefit Americans. This is their time to shine, but instead they look like a bunch of school boys at the chalk board with nothing to write.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo. Read this article. It has great information.



BrattyPatty said:


> With the world in so much turmoil, I can't believe that Boehner would let this become an issue. He went against the Logan Act by inviting Netanyahu.
> So, now we have the leader of Israel coming to visit and no Homeland Security funds. This man (Boehner) has to get control of his caucus and stop playing with our safety, wasting our money, and stop being an a--hole in general.
> The way House Repubs are behaving will come back to bite them in the arse in 2016. Presidential elections as we all know bring more people to the polls than the mid terms.
> Yes, they won both houses but have failed to do anything or even present a decent bill that would benefit Americans. This is their time to shine, but instead they look like a bunch of school boys at the chalk board with nothing to write.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not familiar with the book, but you've got my attention. Thanks.



EveMCooke said:


> I have just received an email, inviting me to a book discussion. The book looks very interesting and I was wondering if any of you have read it. Unfortunately, the meeting is quite a distance from where I live and I do not drive long distances at night these days. I must look into the book though.
> 
> I think it raises a very important question.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Okay ladies,
> 
> Ms. Marilyn called for a month but I may be out of town on March 26. Would the 30th of March work? Please RSVP.


Sounds fine to me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Sounds fine to me.


OKay. We have to the end of March than we will start the book club. We thank our ever helpful EveeeeeeM for this good idea.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

I'll have to see if I can find my copy. Might need a new one.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, I already have more reading to do than I have time for. Plus in one class we were assigned the task of attending a performance by the Martha Graham Dance Co. and writing a review (okay, I didn't do the writing). Also, our apartment is being painted in 2 weeks, and soon after that it's Passover. If I don't join you, I hope you understand.


Hope you have a chance to visit the discussion anyway.

Shop Rite already has their Passover stuff out and it isn't even Purim. Going to Wegman's today to see their display. It is just the two of us so I try to use as much fresh stuff as I can, but there are still the once a year goodies like chocolate covered matzo.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Okay ladies,
> 
> Ms. Marilyn called for a month but I may be out of town on March 26. Would the 30th of March work? Please RSVP.


At your convenience. It was a loosey-goosey approximate month I had in mind anyway.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If Scott Walker is the repub nominee for president, I will send every bit of money I can afford and knock on doors to do my share of work to see that he's defeated. Yesterday I saw snippets of the "conservative convention" on the news. (I think it's called C-PAC, or I may be getting mixed up with the sleep apnea machine.) Joni has replaced Michele Bachman and Ted Cruz sounds more and more like a crackpot preacher. Scott Walker thinks because he got rid of 100,000 union workers in Wisconsin that he can handle a bunch of terrorists (ISIL). And I almost forgot Dr. Ben, who may be a good neurologist?, but talks in circles. Lord, help us if any of these guys gets to the White House.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> At your convenience. It was a loosey-goosey approximate month I had in mind anyway.


I just remembered that I'll be out of town then, too...my son's wedding on the 28th.

However, I'll have my iPad with me and just picked up a digital copy of Demon Haunted World.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hope you have a chance to visit the discussion anyway.
> 
> Shop Rite already has their Passover stuff out and it isn't even Purim. Going to Wegman's today to see their display. It is just the two of us so I try to use as much fresh stuff as I can, but there are still the once a year goodies like chocolate covered matzo.


I'll visit. It sounds interesting.

I haven't been in local supermarkets for a few weeks, but I've noticed in past years that they keep jumping the gun. Are they afraid they'll miss the rush? Do they think people stock up on this stuff months in advance? And then, halfway through the holiday, when laggards like me are looking for one last box of matzoh meal, it's all gone, replaced by noodles and flavored bread crumbs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> If Scott Walker is the repub nominee for president, I will send every bit of money I can afford and knock on doors to do my share of work to see that he's defeated. Yesterday I saw snippets of the "conservative convention" on the news. (I think it's called C-PAC, or I may be getting mixed up with the sleep apnea machine.) Joni has replaced Michele Bachman and Ted Cruz sounds more and more like a crackpot preacher. Scott Walker thinks because he got rid of 100,000 union workers in Wisconsin that he can handle a bunch of terrorists (ISIL). And I almost forgot Dr. Ben, who may be a good neurologist?, but talks in circles. Lord, help us if any of these guys gets to the White House.


The bits of C-PAC I've seen sounded like a sleep apnea machine. But thanks to the Secret Service, almost anyone can get into the White House. :roll:

I worry about the future of the country if this is the best they can find, or at any rate the most normal-seeming. I'm waiting for Nine Nine Nine.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, I have seen parts of C-Pac too. They are bashing Hillary every chance they get. I think they are running scared. They were talking about a tea party group leading a walk out as soon as Jeb takes the stage, so Jeb sent out information to his followers to get there, as early as 7 something in the morning to pack the seats so he doesn't have to speak to empty chairs.
There has been another shooting in Missouri, I think 9 dead.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Boehner just said senate democrats are using blackmail to get the homeland security funded. He is so funny and stupid. 

Authorities have known about "Jihadi John" since 2009 while he was living in London. Sounds like they really dropped the ball on this one.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Purl said "thanks to the Secret Service, almost anyone can get into the White House."

Best line I have heard in days. Dave says thanks for the laugh, too. Sad that it is true, though.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> If Scott Walker is the repub nominee for president, I will send every bit of money I can afford and knock on doors to do my share of work to see that he's defeated. Yesterday I saw snippets of the "conservative convention" on the news. (I think it's called C-PAC, or I may be getting mixed up with the sleep apnea machine.) Joni has replaced Michele Bachman and Ted Cruz sounds more and more like a crackpot preacher. Scott Walker thinks because he got rid of 100,000 union workers in Wisconsin that he can handle a bunch of terrorists (ISIL). And I almost forgot Dr. Ben, who may be a good neurologist?, but talks in circles. Lord, help us if any of these guys gets to the White House.


I thought I had heard wrong when they broadcast on MSNBC that Walker had compared dealing with ISIL as the same as his dealings with WI unions. So now union members are the same as terrorists in his pea brain? Really? The guy is nuts and oh so dangerous. I think he has a good chance of being the candidate so yes we have to do everything possible to defeat him or whoever else to GOP decides on. Will be interesting to see hoe Bush will be treated by C PAC.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I thought I had heard wrong when they broadcast on MSNBC that Walker had compared dealing with ISIL as the same as dealing with WI unions. Really? The guy is nuts and oh so dangerous.


I wonder why they aren't pushing SC governor Haley. She has straight out said she's going to make sure that unions are run out of SC and has even said no to businesses that wanted to relocate here because they wouldn't 'pledge' to do everything they could to keep any kind of organization out of their companies.

And SC has always been a 'right to work (for lots less)' state.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I wonder why they aren't pushing SC governor Haley. She has straight out said she's going to make sure that unions are run out of SC and has even said no to businesses that wanted to relocate here because they wouldn't 'pledge' to do everything they could to keep any kind of organization out of their companies.
> 
> And SC has always been a 'right to work (for lots less)' state.


'Right to work', what a joke. Another one of those terrible ideas the right wants to spread to all states and something we have to try to get rid of totally. We need unions back.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Purl said "thanks to the Secret Service, almost anyone can get into the White House."
> 
> Best line I have heard in days. Dave says thanks for the laugh, too. Sad that it is true, though.


Thank you, Marilyn and Dave.

(BTW, I keep reading your signature as "What doesn't kill you makes you stranger." Makes no sense, but it makes me laugh to myself.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I wonder why they aren't pushing SC governor Haley. She has straight out said she's going to make sure that unions are run out of SC and has even said no to businesses that wanted to relocate here because they wouldn't 'pledge' to do everything they could to keep any kind of organization out of their companies.
> 
> And SC has always been a 'right to work (for lots less)' state.


Were all these people born into wealth? Did none of them have working class parents or grandparents who managed to support their families thanks to unions?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Were all these people born into wealth? Did none of them have working class parents or grandparents who managed to support their families thanks to unions?


Haley brags about working in her parents' clothing store. They immigrated from India, she was born here...so she was a citizen before her parents. And no, she's never had dealings with unions. Except to try to get rid of them, of course.

I want to see what happens to Charleston's economy if she does actually manage to get rid of the longshoreman's union here. There isn't anybody here that can work the ships (cargo and cruise) without being part of the union. You can't even learn how without joining. And since we lost the Navy base and the Naval shipyard, our economy depends on the port and tourism. Without the port and cruise ships, tourism will be cut almost in half.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Marilyn and Dave.
> 
> (BTW, I keep reading your signature as "What doesn't kill you makes you stranger." Makes no sense, but it makes me laugh to myself.)


It makes perfect sense. Look at me.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Well it looks like Homeland Security is shutting down, well not exactly, according to Rod Blum, as they will continue to work without pay, but of course he will get paid. I just sent him an email.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

How many times have we said the GOP is getting more crazy as time goes by. Here is more proof. They are about to go over the edge.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/sc-county-gop-if-you-ve-had-pre-marital-sex-you-can-t-be-a-republican


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> How many times have we said the GOP is getting more crazy as time goes by. Here is more proof. They are about to go over the edge.
> 
> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/sc-county-gop-if-you-ve-had-pre-marital-sex-you-can-t-be-a-republican


Do you think I'm even the least bit surprised? In a state where, a few years ago, we had a candidate run (and win) from his jail cell?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

A Republican candidate, I might add.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Do you think I'm even the least bit surprised? In a state where, a few years ago, we had a candidate run (and win) from his jail cell?


OMG, here is another story. I am just shaking my head. Such family values people those republicans are. All you have to do is expect the worst, cause that is what you will get.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/02/27/gifts-for-politicians/

In addition, it is getting worse.

http://gawker.com/5830364/anti-gay-republican-cruised-craigslist-for-male-prostitute


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Story #1...not a new thing. They just aren't trying to hide it any more.

Story #2,..lather, rinse, repeat. Every one of the most vocal disgusted at gay relations lawmakers have been caught either diddling young boys or paying for it from older guys.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Well it looks like Homeland Security is shutting down, well not exactly, according to Rod Blum, as they will continue to work without pay, but of course he will get paid. I just sent him an email.


Shameful! More of the same stupid antics from GOP, only more stupid than before! Why should these people work without pay? That would have to include the Coast Guard. 
I think it's time we all wrote to our reps and senators to get Boehner ousted.
He would rather sell the American people down the river than to grow some balls and stand up to the Ted Cruz's in his party.
They can knock Nancy Pelosi all they want and still come out looking like idiots. She could control her caucus. Boehner has no clue.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I thought I had heard wrong when they broadcast on MSNBC that Walker had compared dealing with ISIL as the same as his dealings with WI unions. So now union members are the same as terrorists in his pea brain? Really? The guy is nuts and oh so dangerous. I think he has a good chance of being the candidate so yes we have to do everything possible to defeat him or whoever else to GOP decides on. Will be interesting to see hoe Bush will be treated by C PAC.


If Scott Walker is their candidate, then it is a sure win for Democrats. Every union worker in the country Dem or GOP will vote against him. That is a helluva lot of people!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If Scott Walker is their candidate, then it is a sure win for Democrats. Every union worker in the country Dem or GOP will vote against him. That is a helluva lot of people!


Not any more. Only about 3% of working people belong to unions today.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Not any more. Only about 3% of working people belong to unions today.


Yes, Judy, but look how many people who had union jobs.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Judy, but look how many people who had union jobs.


Yes...most, like us, now older and watching the pensions we worked for being taken away from us and no Union left to fight for and with us. The National Labor Relations Board has had its teeth pulled and its a wonder it even still exists.

Top it off with the way things are going we can't even be sure we'll be allowed to try to right things with our votes.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Christy might be in deep do do again. Previous governors had brought a suit against Exxon Mobil, evidently it started in 2004. It was about the environmental destruction of the land they had their refinery on in New Jersey. The suit says Exxon damaged more than 1500 acres of waterfront and meadows with some places having oil as deep as 17 feet. There was a canal that they were just going to block off because of oil. They were originally going for 8.9 billion, but Christie will settle for 250 million. Exxon's revenue for 2014 was 411.9 billion so it will take Exxon 5 hours to make enough money to pay out the settlement. Exxon and the Christie administration settled out of court before the judge could give his decision. Exxon donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to a Republican group that Christie ran and financed his election campaigns, and the Christie administration office that engineered the settlement had been run by a former Exxon lawyer. 
The republicans are nothing but a bunch of crooks. Christie has the balls to tell Washington to sit down and shut up. He might have balls, but no brains.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Marilyn and Dave.
> 
> (BTW, I keep reading your signature as "What doesn't kill you makes you stranger." Makes no sense, but it makes me laugh to myself.)


Girl, I love you! It is "stronger" but "stranger" sounds good, too. Think it came from the X-Files.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> How many times have we said the GOP is getting more crazy as time goes by. Here is more proof. They are about to go over the edge.
> 
> http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/sc-county-gop-if-you-ve-had-pre-marital-sex-you-can-t-be-a-republican


And what happens when they don't have any candidates? Some of the most sanctimonious hypocrites are the loudly moral who have their dirty little secrets that eventually are aired in public.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And what happens when they don't have any candidates? Some of the most sanctimonious hypocrites are the loudly moral who have their dirty little secrets that eventually are aired in public.


It sure seems like there are more stories everyday about the the crooks in the republican party, but they keep electing them. I don't understand why it is so easy to just overlook all the crap and keep voting for them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Judy, but look how many people who had union jobs.


right - all the people who were in Unions and have no more union, and especially those who lost their jobs will hopefully remember him come voting time.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> right - all the people who were in Unions and have no more union, and especially those who lost their jobs will hopefully remember him come voting time.


We are right back where we were 100 years ago when John L. Lewis, Sidney Hillman, David Dubinsky, and their associates (my grandfather was one of them) strove to organize exploited workers.

Management had thugs working to intimidate them, and there were organizers who were beaten and killed in the effort to get equitable conditions for the miners and sweat shop workers.

It took catalysts like the Triangle Factory fire to get public support. The horror of those girls trapped and dying seemed to have hit a nerve with the general public.

Tell me that people working in boiler rooms making cold calls are not the descendents of earlier sweat shop workers. Sure now we have heating and air conditioning, but so much of their environment is the same. Of course many of them are out of work with robocalls taking their jobs, unpleasant as they are.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We are right back where we were 100 years ago when John L. Lewis, Sidney Hillman, David Dubinsky, and their associates (my grandfather was one of them) strove to organize exploited workers.
> 
> Management had thugs working to intimidate them, and there were organizers who were beaten and killed in the effort to get equitable conditions for the miners and sweat shop workers.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll tell you that people working in boiler rooms are not like sweat shop workers. For one thing, the boiler-room guys are trying to get your money without giving you anything in exchange, unlike the sweat shop guys, who produced goods people wanted. For another, sweat shop workers didn't annoy you by phoning you at dinnertime, or any other time.

Sorry to joke at your expense, Marilyn; I do get your point, but I couldn't resist the challenge.

In fact, I'll post an op-ed that appeared recently in the NY Times on the subject, http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/19/opinion/nicholas-kristof-the-cost-of-a-decline-in-unions.html?_r=0 . Nicholas Kristof is usually on the liberal side of things, going so far as to try to help some African women escape the oppressive culture they live in. But if you take the time to read the piece, read some of the criticisms, too (they turned up in a Google search for "kristof unions"). Having gone on too long already, I'll paste the article itself into another message.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We are right back where we were 100 years ago when John L. Lewis, Sidney Hillman, David Dubinsky, and their associates (my grandfather was one of them) strove to organize exploited workers.


The following may be a case of too little, too late, and Scott Walker will love that it omits public-sector unions, but it's interesting.

*The Cost of a Decline in Unions*
FEB. 19, 2015
Nicholas Kristof

Like many Americans, Ive been wary of labor unions.

Full-time union stagehands at Carnegie Hall earning more than $400,000 a year? A union hailing its defense of a New York teacher who smelled of alcohol and passed out in class, with even the principal unable to rouse her? A police union in New York City that has a tantrum and goes on virtual strike?

More broadly, I disdained unions as bringing corruption, nepotism and rigid work rules to the labor market, impeding the economic growth that ultimately makes a country strong.

I was wrong.

The abuses are real. But, as unions wane in American life, its also increasingly clear that they were doing a lot of good in sustaining middle class life  especially the private-sector unions that are now dwindling.

Most studies suggest that about one-fifth of the increase in economic inequality in America among men in recent decades is the result of the decline in unions. It may be more: A study in the American Sociological Review, using the broadest methodology, estimates that the decline of unions may account for one-third of the rise of inequality among men.

To understand the rising inequality, you have to understand the devastation in the labor movement, says Jake Rosenfeld, a labor expert at the University of Washington and the author of What Unions No Longer Do.

Take construction workers. A full-time construction worker earns about $10,000 less per year now than in 1973, in todays dollars, according to Rosenfeld. One reason is probably that the proportion who are unionized has fallen in that period from more than 40 percent to just 14 percent.

All the focus on labors flaws can distract us from the bigger picture, Rosenfeld writes. For generations now the labor movement has stood as the most prominent and effective voice for economic justice.

Im as appalled as anyone by silly work rules and $400,000 stagehands, or teachers unions shielding the incompetent. But unions also lobby for programs like universal prekindergarten that help create broad-based prosperity. They are pushing for a higher national minimum wage, even though that would directly benefit mostly nonunionized workers.

Ive also changed my mind because, in recent years, the worst abuses by far havent been in the union shop but in the corporate suite. One of the things you learn as a journalist is that when theres no accountability, we humans are capable of tremendous avarice and venality. Thats true of union bosses  and of corporate tycoons. Unions, even flawed ones, can provide checks and balances for flawed corporations.

Many Americans think unions drag down the economy over all, but scholars disagree. American auto unions are often mentioned, but Germanys car workers have a strong union, and so do Toyotas in Japan and Kias in South Korea.

In Germany, the average autoworker earns about $67 per hour in salary and benefits, compared with $34 in the United States. Yet Germanys car companies in 2010 produced more than twice as many vehicles as American companies did, and they were highly profitable. Its too glib to say that the problem in the American sector was just unions.

Or look at American history. The peak years for unions were the 1940s and 50s, which were also some of the fastest-growing years for the United States ever  and with broadly shared prosperity. Historically, the periods when union membership were highest were those when inequality was least.

Richard B. Freeman, a Harvard labor expert, notes that unions sometimes bring important benefits to industry: They can improve morale, reduce turnover and provide a channel to suggest productivity improvements.

Experts disagree about how this all balances out, but its clear that its not a major drag. If youre looking for big negatives, everybody knows they dont exist, Professor Freeman said.

Joseph Stiglitz notes in his book The Price of Inequality that when unions were strong in America, productivity and real hourly compensation moved together in manufacturing. But after 1980 (and especially after 2000) the link seemed to break and real wages stagnated.

It may be that as unions weakened, executives sometimes grabbed the gains from productivity. Perhaps that helps explain why chief executives at big companies earned, on average, 20 times as much as the typical worker in 1965, and 296 times as much in 2013, according to the Economic Policy Institute.

Lawrence F. Katz, a Harvard labor economist, raises concerns about some aspects of public-sector unions, but he says that in the private sector (where only 7 percent of workers are now unionized): I think weve gone too far in de-unionization.

Hes right. This isnt something you often hear a columnist say, but Ill say it again: I was wrong. At least in the private sector, we should strengthen unions, not try to eviscerate them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Another homeless man (unarmed) tasered and then shot 3 times and killed, and there were 6 police officers involved -in California. They don't seem to care about public opinion sad indeed.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Another homeless man (unarmed) tasered and then shot 3 times and killed, and there were 6 police officers involved -in California. They don't seem to care about public opinion sad indeed.


As long as they get away with it, they think everyone is a justified killing.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Did anyone watch 60 minutes last night and see the piece about Lumber Liquidators and their laminate flooring. I started a thread on it cause it really pisses me off. I haven't used it, thank God, but I am checking with my niece who recently had some new laminate installed.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-322891-1.html#6959437


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Another homeless man (unarmed) tasered and then shot 3 times and killed, and there were 6 police officers involved -in California. They don't seem to care about public opinion sad indeed.


Six cops and only shot 3 times? Aren't they getting to the practice range enough?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/27/us-usa-measles-idUSKBN0LV2DD20150227

Measles again. Besides the anti-vaccination crowd, I think we can also lay this at the feet of those who think sick days shouldn't be permitted...even for those handling our food.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

...and if there is any doubt that the extremists on the right are insane:

_Tea Party radio host Andrea Shea King argued recently that Democratic lawmakers  and specifically members of the Congressional Black Caucus  should be put to death by hanging if they boycotted Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahus Tuesday speech to Congress

Obama doesnt have to run for reelection again, a lot of these guys do, King said in a clip of her radio show that was published by Right Wing Watch on Monday. Listen, I would like to think that these guys could pay with their lives, hanging from a noose in front of the U.S. Capitol Building._

I only read this crap to keep myself motivated to write letters and work for change in the next election! Payson is filthy with teabaggers like this wacko.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> ...and if there is any doubt that the extremists on the right are insane:
> 
> _Tea Party radio host Andrea Shea King argued recently that Democratic lawmakers  and specifically members of the Congressional Black Caucus  should be put to death by hanging if they boycotted Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahus Tuesday speech to Congress
> 
> ...


We should take you up as a cause and raise money to move you out of there. How did you land there in the first place?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

DGreen said:


> ...and if there is any doubt that the extremists on the right are insane:
> 
> _Tea Party radio host Andrea Shea King argued recently that Democratic lawmakers  and specifically members of the Congressional Black Caucus  should be put to death by hanging if they boycotted Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahus Tuesday speech to Congress
> 
> ...


I think those woes could be interpreted as hate speech. To mention hanging (lynching) and the Black Caucus. Who is this woman?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> We should take you up as a cause and raise money to move you out of there. How did you land there in the first place?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> We should take you up as a cause and raise money to move you out of there. How did you land there in the first place?


Aside from the right-wingers, this is paradise! I lived in the Phoenix area for about 50 years and the heat is brutal and unrelenting. I hated it. When Hubby and I retired, we knew we wanted to get rid of the 2,500 sf behemoth of a house so we decided to get out of Dodge.

We are at 5,000 feet and the climate here is truly wonderful. We get maybe 5 days of 100 deg. temps in the summer, but the nights cool off and we sleep with the windows open all summer. We have 4 seasons. The pace of life is much slower and people are generally very friendly. If I want to see my kids or shop, it's a 1.25 hour drive "down the hill" to Phoenix over one of the most scenic drives in the west. All of my neighbors are elderly - I mean REALLY elderly so the neighborhood is quiet and nobody bothers us. There is a small urban lake across the street with fishing, ducks, geese and turtles and even a resident heron.

And because there are so many ********, I have a purpose in life! Photo attached of this weeks' output, not counting the woodworking.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I think those woes could be interpreted as hate speech. To mention hanging (lynching) and the Black Caucus. Who is this woman?


She has a Tea Party radio talk show. Don't know where, but she's definitely nuts. But then - Tea Party sort of defines "nuts."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> She has a Tea Party radio talk show. Don't know where, but she's definitely nuts. But then - Tea Party sort of defines "nuts."


I looked at her facebook page--totally disgusting.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> I looked at her facebook page--totally disgusting.


My view of her and those like her.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Aside from the right-wingers, this is paradise! I lived in the Phoenix area for about 50 years and the heat is brutal and unrelenting. I hated it. When Hubby and I retired, we knew we wanted to get rid of the 2,500 sf behemoth of a house so we decided to get out of Dodge.
> 
> We are at 5,000 feet and the climate here is truly wonderful. We get maybe 5 days of 100 deg. temps in the summer, but the nights cool off and we sleep with the windows open all summer. We have 4 seasons. The pace of life is much slower and people are generally very friendly. If I want to see my kids or shop, it's a 1.25 hour drive "down the hill" to Phoenix over one of the most scenic drives in the west. All of my neighbors are elderly - I mean REALLY elderly so the neighborhood is quiet and nobody bothers us. There is a small urban lake across the street with fishing, ducks, geese and turtles and even a resident heron.
> 
> And because there are so many ********, I have a purpose in life! Photo attached of this weeks' output, not counting the woodworking.


And I live up to my handle.

You do so much!!!!! Craft envy.

Your town sounds idyllic in many ways.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> And I live up to my handle.
> 
> You do so much!!!!! Craft envy.
> 
> Your town sounds idyllic in many ways.


Idyllic is a good word for it. I forgot to mention that we are very close to the Mogollon (muggy-own) Rim, a major geographical feature that is an escarpment rising 1,000 feet from the base and that runs a hundred miles or so across northern Arizona. There is a trail along the edge. Oh my gosh - the views! We go camping a lot - even getting away 10 miles from home is nice. Streams, hiking, hiking, hiking. We sometimes find elk tracks in the front yard and it's common to hear the coyotes singing in the evenings.

You're entitled to live up to your name if you want, though I consider knitting to be a very productive use of time!

I've been focused on using some of the donated fabric - I also have a nice flat of seedlings under a light and will be making jewelry soon. And garden signs and hubby made birdhouses. I LOVE crafts and while I'm not that good at any one thing, I'm competent at many.

It's a function of age.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Aside from the right-wingers, this is paradise! I lived in the Phoenix area for about 50 years and the heat is brutal and unrelenting. I hated it. When Hubby and I retired, we knew we wanted to get rid of the 2,500 sf behemoth of a house so we decided to get out of Dodge.
> 
> We are at 5,000 feet and the climate here is truly wonderful. We get maybe 5 days of 100 deg. temps in the summer, but the nights cool off and we sleep with the windows open all summer. We have 4 seasons. The pace of life is much slower and people are generally very friendly. If I want to see my kids or shop, it's a 1.25 hour drive "down the hill" to Phoenix over one of the most scenic drives in the west. All of my neighbors are elderly - I mean REALLY elderly so the neighborhood is quiet and nobody bothers us. There is a small urban lake across the street with fishing, ducks, geese and turtles and even a resident heron.
> 
> And because there are so many ********, I have a purpose in life! Photo attached of this weeks' output, not counting the woodworking.


Oh my goodness! Wow! You are industrious Green and it all looks beautiful. Love your Singer.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Idyllic is a good word for it. I forgot to mention that we are very close to the Mogollon (muggy-own) Rim, a major geographical feature that is an escarpment rising 1,000 feet from the base and that runs a hundred miles or so across northern Arizona. There is a trail along the edge. Oh my gosh - the views! We go camping a lot - even getting away 10 miles from home is nice. Streams, hiking, hiking, hiking. We sometimes find elk tracks in the front yard and it's common to hear the coyotes singing in the evenings.
> 
> You're entitled to live up to your name if you want, though I consider knitting to be a very productive use of time!
> 
> ...


You certainly do have an idyllic life but you deserve it!


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I think those woes could be interpreted as hate speech. To mention hanging (lynching) and the Black Caucus. Who is this woman?


An audio link of her radio remarks is at the bottom of this article.......

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/andrea-shea-king-netanyahu-hang-congressmen


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

DGreen said:


> My view of her and those like her.


LOL, that's a bit insulting to rocks, don't you think? (I am assuming those are rocks in that box)


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> LOL, that's a bit insulting to rock, don't you think? (I am assuming those are rocks in that box)


Actually I think King would love them. Something right at hand to throw at those she thinks deserve it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Oh my goodness! Wow! You are industrious Green and it all looks beautiful. Love your Singer.


I love my Singer, too! It was willed to me by ex-man's aunt. I have no idea why except I was perhaps the only person she knew who sewed.

At one time it had a lovely mahogany case, but it was dropped and the case was a total loss. The machine, being of sturdy construction, was not damaged at all. Whew! I also have a cabinet-model Singer. Again, a gift. Back in about 1965 a neighbor was given a new sewing machine by her hubby and because the cabinet model had been given to her, she felt she should pass it along as a gift. It was made the year I was born - 1948. Needs a new motor, but all the other working parts are in excellent condition. I made clothes for myself, most of my daughter's school clothes, Barbie clothes, prom dresses and baby things, plus quilts on that old machine. It's dear to my heart. Photo is of the drum major's uniform I made for daughter back in the early 90's. Goes to show one does not need a fancy machine to do nice work.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> LOL, that's a bit insulting to rocks, don't you think? (I am assuming those are rocks in that box)


Yep. A box of rocks.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I love my Singer, too! It was willed to me by ex-man's aunt. I have no idea why except I was perhaps the only person she knew who sewed.
> 
> At one time it had a lovely mahogany case, but it was dropped and the case was a total loss. The machine, being of sturdy construction, was not damaged at all. Whew! I also have a cabinet-model Singer. Again, a gift. Back in about 1965 a neighbor was given a new sewing machine by her hubby and because the cabinet model had been given to her, she felt she should pass it along as a gift. It was made the year I was born - 1948. Needs a new motor, but all the other working parts are in excellent condition. I made clothes for myself, most of my daughter's school clothes, Barbie clothes, prom dresses and baby things, plus quilts on that old machine. It's dear to my heart. Photo is of the drum major's uniform I made for daughter back in the early 90's. Goes to show one does not need a fancy machine to do nice work.


My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

DGreen said:


> She has a Tea Party radio talk show. Don't know where, but she's definitely nuts. But then - Tea Party sort of defines "nuts."


she lives in Florida


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


By that logic you aunt should have given it back if you had asked for it. (I know things don't work that way). Bummer.

The old straight-stitch machines with stainless steel cams were/are real workhorses. Not a bunch of electronic features to go haywire. Just simple, well-designed machines.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> she lives in Florida


I looked at her website and gagged.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


As soon as my back was turned, my mom gave away a lot of my things she did not like. I was never even asked. Can this psyche be saved?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


Not a fair decision on your mother's part.....IMHO!!!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


My Singer is not as old, probably made in 1956. It is a 306 with twin needles and the black plastic embroidery cams. It needs a service at the moment. I took it in to be serviced over 10 years ago and the man in the shop said it was not worth repairing. He offered me $100 trade in on a new, plastic machine, costing about $500. I told him I was not interested in a plastic machine and I asked him what he would do with my machine. He replied that he would take it to the tip. I pointed out three rows of second hand machines that he had for sale, and all for over $100, and asked him if they were also machines that he told the owners he was taking to the tip? The machine still sews well and the plastic, fantastic machine he wanted me to buy has probably long given up the ghost.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> My Singer is not as old, probably made in 1956. It is a 306 with twin needles and the black plastic embroidery cams. It needs a service at the moment. I took it in to be serviced over 10 years ago and the man in the shop said it was not worth repairing. He offered me $100 trade in on a new, plastic machine, costing about $500. I told him I was not interested in a plastic machine and I asked him what he would do with my machine. He replied that he would take it to the tip. I pointed out three rows of second hand machines that he had for sale, and all for over $100, and asked him if they were also machines that he told the owners he was taking to the tip? The machine still sews well and the plastic, fantastic machine he wanted me to buy has probably long given up the ghost.


Plastic sewing machines - bah!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I love my Singer, too! It was willed to me by ex-man's aunt. I have no idea why except I was perhaps the only person she knew who sewed.
> 
> At one time it had a lovely mahogany case, but it was dropped and the case was a total loss. The machine, being of sturdy construction, was not damaged at all. Whew! I also have a cabinet-model Singer. Again, a gift. Back in about 1965 a neighbor was given a new sewing machine by her hubby and because the cabinet model had been given to her, she felt she should pass it along as a gift. It was made the year I was born - 1948. Needs a new motor, but all the other working parts are in excellent condition. I made clothes for myself, most of my daughter's school clothes, Barbie clothes, prom dresses and baby things, plus quilts on that old machine. It's dear to my heart. Photo is of the drum major's uniform I made for daughter back in the early 90's. Goes to show one does not need a fancy machine to do nice work.


Beautiful work that only a Singer (and talented seamstress of course), could do!

My mother had an old singer with a lever which came out of the base and resided beside the right knee. So you gently pressed the lever and off she'd go! It was the most beautiful sewing machine I've ever used. Smooth as silk. My mother was constantly sewing with it, clothing for us kids mainly and when I reached the age of about 12 I started to sew and I went berserk on it. Made countless garments for school friends and myself and had the first go of many a quilt I've made ever since.

I don't know what happened to the Singer. I'm using a Janome My Style now. It's the same age as my son, 21 years, and I've just had it serviced because the reverse thingy wasn't working. I asked the mechanic what he thought of it in terms of quality and he said it's a high quality machine which is good to know. But to me, that Singer from my childhood was the most impressive I've used!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Beautiful work that only a Singer (and talented seamstress of course), could do!
> 
> My mother had an old singer with a lever which came out of the base and resided beside the right knee. So you gently pressed the lever and off she'd go! It was the most beautiful sewing machine I've ever used. Smooth as silk. My mother was constantly sewing with it, clothing for us kids mainly and when I reached the age of about 12 I started to sew and I went berserk on it. Made countless garments for school friends and myself and had the first go of many a quilt I've made ever since.
> 
> I don't know what happened to the Singer. I'm using a Janome My Style now. It's the same age as my son, 21 years, and I've just had it serviced because the reverse thingy wasn't working. I asked the mechanic what he thought of it in terms of quality and he said it's a high quality machine which is good to know. But to me, that Singer from my childhood was the most impressive I've used!


My cabinet model has a knee lever too!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> My cabinet model has a knee lever too!


I never liked using the machines with the knee lever, I seemed to press to hard on the lever. I used these models when I was a teenager. I still love the old treadle machines and wish I still had mine. I gave it to my daughter when she was 14 and went to live with her father for a while. Her father was living with wife/girlfriend number 3 at the time. They split up a few months after my daughter went to live with them and the wife/girlfriend would not return the sewing machine, it was worth quite a bit even back in 1976. In fact this woman kept quite a lot of my daughter's belongings, just took them with her when she moved out. Her father said to let her have them because he was sick of arguing with this woman. For his sake I agreed. Poor man was at the end of his tether and did not know which way to turn. Yes, I have always maintained an excellent relationship with my first husband. We get on fine, just not as husband and wife. He is on his fifth relationship at the moment, three marriages and two live in girlfriends. He will be 76 soon so maybe he is slowing down with age. But I still miss my old Singer treadle sewing machine.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Beautiful work Eve. You are a good person who has many talents. Glad to know you.



DGreen said:


> I love my Singer, too! It was willed to me by ex-man's aunt. I have no idea why except I was perhaps the only person she knew who sewed.
> 
> At one time it had a lovely mahogany case, but it was dropped and the case was a total loss. The machine, being of sturdy construction, was not damaged at all. Whew! I also have a cabinet-model Singer. Again, a gift. Back in about 1965 a neighbor was given a new sewing machine by her hubby and because the cabinet model had been given to her, she felt she should pass it along as a gift. It was made the year I was born - 1948. Needs a new motor, but all the other working parts are in excellent condition. I made clothes for myself, most of my daughter's school clothes, Barbie clothes, prom dresses and baby things, plus quilts on that old machine. It's dear to my heart. Photo is of the drum major's uniform I made for daughter back in the early 90's. Goes to show one does not need a fancy machine to do nice work.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Figures. Land of the hanging chads...and chumps. Let me know if I have slandered and good folks in FL.



peacegoddess said:


> she lives in Florida


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> My old Singer 201 was a wonderful machine. I could do anything with it. Had a pinking attachment, too. I left it at home with my folks when I went to college, and when I came back in the summer I found my mother had given it to my aunt. Why? My aunt asked for it. Didn't matter it was mine. I have never had as good machine again. Drat!


My mother did the same with children's articles I had stored with her. She gave them all to my sister without a word from either. I've managed to let it go over the years but I will never forget it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same thing happened to me. After thinking it through, I acknowledged that Mom was not a storage unit & I should have confirmed the details with her before leaving them with her.

That's how I dealt with it.



SQM said:


> As soon as my back was turned, my mom gave away a lot of my things she did not like. I was never even asked. Can this psyche be saved?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry.



EveMCooke said:


> I never liked using the machines with the knee lever, I seemed to press to hard on the lever. I used these models when I was a teenager. I still love the old treadle machines and wish I still had mine. I gave it to my daughter when she was 14 and went to live with her father for a while. Her father was living with wife/girlfriend number 3 at the time. They split up a few months after my daughter went to live with them and the wife/girlfriend would not return the sewing machine, it was worth quite a bit even back in 1976. In fact this woman kept quite a lot of my daughter's belongings, just took them with her when she moved out. Her father said to let her have them because he was sick of arguing with this woman. For his sake I agreed. Poor man was at the end of his tether and did not know which way to turn. Yes, I have always maintained an excellent relationship with my first husband. We get on fine, just not as husband and wife. He is on his fifth relationship at the moment, three marriages and two live in girlfriends. He will be 76 soon so maybe he is slowing down with age. But I still miss my old Singer treadle sewing machine.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> My cabinet model has a knee lever too!


Must have been 'the in thing' at the time! I think I prefer the lever to the foot pedal because I'm always kicking (the foot pedal), and then have to poke around with own foot to find it. With the lever, it was always just there no matter what.

I'm starting to want a Singer in my life again! Off to ebay!!!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I never liked using the machines with the knee lever, I seemed to press to hard on the lever. I used these models when I was a teenager. I still love the old treadle machines and wish I still had mine. I gave it to my daughter when she was 14 and went to live with her father for a while. Her father was living with wife/girlfriend number 3 at the time. They split up a few months after my daughter went to live with them and the wife/girlfriend would not return the sewing machine, it was worth quite a bit even back in 1976. In fact this woman kept quite a lot of my daughter's belongings, just took them with her when she moved out. Her father said to let her have them because he was sick of arguing with this woman. For his sake I agreed. Poor man was at the end of his tether and did not know which way to turn. Yes, I have always maintained an excellent relationship with my first husband. We get on fine, just not as husband and wife. He is on his fifth relationship at the moment, three marriages and two live in girlfriends. He will be 76 soon so maybe he is slowing down with age. But I still miss my old Singer treadle sewing machine.


My sister has a treadle and it is a lovely machine to use also.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I learned to sew with a treadle machine. Years later in my first home ec teaching job the room only had one double outlet and the two treadle machines were the only reliable ones. The kids grew to love them. 

Over the years I have had several Singers and prefer the 200 and 600 series. I bought a used Janome at a rummage sale for $50, and it was lovely, but I was so used to the way you thread Singers I got frustrated with it. Sold it for what I paid to a friend's daughter who was desperate for a machine. She earned her buying price in a week doing alterations. It is years now and she enjoys the machine as much as ever. 

I prefer a gear driven to a belt driven generally, and a flat horizontal bobbin to the kind you put in the case then insert the case.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I just wanted to let you know that there is an excellent lace class starting on the workshops today. 

it is basic lace and a lovely original scarf. Well worth a look. 

go to the link under my posts if you are interested.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Saturday I had to buy a new printer. My old one was 6 or 7 years old and the print head wore out. I was lucky that one of my website clients had just paid me and Best Buy was having a sale. I got a great new printer for about half price. Wireless, document feeder, duplex printing, etc.

Today I got an email (in MY account) letting me know that my printer has its own email address. All I have to do is email a document to it and it will print out. Send a message from my phone and it will print.

That's neat. But I sure hope it doesn't start sending spam to everyone on my contact list.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Saturday I had to buy a new printer. My old one was 6 or 7 years old and the print head wore out. I was lucky that one of my website clients had just paid me and Best Buy was having a sale. I got a great new printer for about half price. Wireless, document feeder, duplex printing, etc.
> 
> Today I got an email (in MY account) letting me know that my printer has its own email address. All I have to do is email a document to it and it will print out. Send a message from my phone and it will print.
> 
> That's neat. But I sure hope it doesn't start sending spam to everyone on my contact list.


What brand?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Saturday I had to buy a new printer. My old one was 6 or 7 years old and the print head wore out. I was lucky that one of my website clients had just paid me and Best Buy was having a sale. I got a great new printer for about half price. Wireless, document feeder, duplex printing, etc.
> 
> Today I got an email (in MY account) letting me know that my printer has its own email address. All I have to do is email a document to it and it will print out. Send a message from my phone and it will print.
> 
> That's neat. But I sure hope it doesn't start sending spam to everyone on my contact list.


This forum did the double post not I said the Sloth.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> What brand?


HP 8620 I think

Yep, 8620


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone . I just got home from a wonderful trip along to Port Renfrew and to Victoria and when I turned on the TV it was mentioning the Justice Dept. on CNN had just announced that Ferguson has been investigated as far as the problems with Police Department there. Really bad results.

The Police department was held responsible for a basic unfair treatment of Blacks. That their work orders showed really racist remarks on their statements and that there is no question that excessive force was usual. The Justice dept. completed their report - 'wide spread bias (racial) in the courts and by police charges and information from the Police department. Really really bad. Racial bias in their emails on official documents. as well as obvious racial bias in all the Police activities. I am so glad that the investigation proved that the people of Ferguson told the truth. thoughts anyone?

Also I missed the speech of netanyahu and wonder what your thoughts are on that. 

We had a glorious drive down from Cowichan Lake to Port Renfrew along the coast of the Juan de fuca straight, into Sooke and then into Victoria. Had our lunch in a nice restaurant and spent some money in the mall for some summer clothes. Really nice day. We saw 2 eagles ( Bald eagles) perched on the Douglas fir trees which are glorious by the way. Took pictures of the straight of juan de fuca - only a short distance down to Washington State. A great great day! I took some pictures and will post some later.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Pictures from our trip today


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Saturday I had to buy a new printer. My old one was 6 or 7 years old and the print head wore out. I was lucky that one of my website clients had just paid me and Best Buy was having a sale. I got a great new printer for about half price. Wireless, document feeder, duplex printing, etc.
> 
> Today I got an email (in MY account) letting me know that my printer has its own email address. All I have to do is email a document to it and it will print out. Send a message from my phone and it will print.
> 
> That's neat. But I sure hope it doesn't start sending spam to everyone on my contact list.


If your printer now has its own email address does that mean that it can join KP under its own name and ask for people to send knitting patterns? Should we be on the look out for a new member of KP who logs on under the name of JBPrints and uses a fancy printer as an avatar?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> If your printer now has its own email address does that mean that it can join KP under its own name and ask for people to send knitting patterns? Should we be on the look out for a new member of KP who logs on under the name of JBPrints and uses a fancy printer as an avatar?


What a great idea. :lol:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Pictures from our trip today


Love your pictures, beautiful water views. I am jealous.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Love your pictures, beautiful water views. I am jealous.


Eve I thought of both you and Wombat -- this must be the absolute opposite of Western Australia. There was bright green moss growing on huge rocks along the highway. The wonderful Douglas Fir trees which are known to have absolutely straight trunks{ Huge and very tall}.

When there were sailing ships the shipping companies always tried to find ways of obtaining the douglas firs for the masts of their ships. they were tall enough, and exceptionally strong. There were miles and miles of forests - all different shades of green. So different than the views of the Canadian Rockies Forests.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Pictures from our trip today


And a beautiful day!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone . I just got home from a wonderful trip along to Port Renfrew and to Victoria and when I turned on the TV it was mentioning the Justice Dept. on CNN had just announced that Ferguson has been investigated as far as the problems with Police Department there. Really bad results.
> 
> The Police department was held responsible for a basic unfair treatment of Blacks. That their work orders showed really racist remarks on their statements and that there is no question that excessive force was usual. The Justice dept. completed their report - 'wide spread bias (racial) in the courts and by police charges and information from the Police department. Really really bad. Racial bias in their emails on official documents. as well as obvious racial bias in all the Police activities. I am so glad that the investigation proved that the people of Ferguson told the truth. thoughts anyone?
> 
> ...


I too am glad the DOJ came back with the report they did. One of the emails someone sent said that a black woman had gotten an abortion and that Crime Stoppers had given her a refund, insinuating that by having the abortion she got rid of a future criminal. Also before the last presidential election some one said something about it being unusual for a black man to have had steady work for, 4 years.

Netanyahu joined Bush and Cheney and was 100% positive that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, no doubt about it. He had them. He lied then so I don't believe him now. He wants our young men and women to go to war for him and use our money to do it. He has an election in 2 weeks and had no business dragging the US into his political agenda at election time. We give Israel over 3 billion in foreign aid, plus over 2 million is government guaranteed loans and this country is is deep debt. It must stop.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I too am glad the DOJ came back with the report they did. One of the emails someone sent said that a black woman had gotten an abortion and that Crime Stoppers had given her a refund, insinuating that by having the abortion she got rid of a future criminal. Also before the last presidential election some one said something about it being unusual for a black man to have had steady work for, 4 years.
> 
> Netanyahu joined Bush and Cheney and was 100% positive that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, no doubt about it. He had them. He lied then so I don't believe him now. He wants our young men and women to go to war for him and use our money to do it. He has an election in 2 weeks and had no business dragging the US into his political agenda at election time. We give Israel over 3 billion in foreign aid, plus over 2 million is government guaranteed loans and this country is is deep debt. It must stop.


I watched the entire Netanyahu speech and thought he made a good campaign speech for himself. But his real intention is to sway our country into war with Iran. I don't like the way things dealing with this came about.
Boehner was completely out of line. If the President refused to meet with him he did so with good reason as NJG stated above.

On another note. In the WH press room, while the press secretary taking questions about Netanyahu's speech, a reporter brought up the email account Hillary used as Sec of State. It seems that it's perfectly okay for Boehner to break the law, but they are going after Hillary instead..again!
They must be very afraid of her to keep the witch hunt going. They came out with egg on their faces over Benghazi, so now it's emails.
Izza must be orgasmic over this!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I watched the entire Netanyahu speech and thought he made a good campaign speech for himself. But his real intention is to sway our country into war with Iran. I don't like the way things dealing with this came about.
> Boehner was completely out of line. If the President refused to meet with him he did so with good reason as NJG stated above.
> 
> On another note. In the WH press room, while the press secretary taking questions about Netanyahu's speech, a reporter brought up the email account Hillary used as Sec of State. It seems that it's perfectly okay for Boehner to break the law, but they are going after Hillary instead..again!
> They must be very afraid of her.


I think they are very afraid of her and since Benghazi failed they are going to push this email thing very hard.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> I too am glad the DOJ came back with the report they did. One of the emails someone sent said that a black woman had gotten an abortion and that Crime Stoppers had given her a refund, insinuating that by having the abortion she got rid of a future criminal. Also before the last presidential election some one said something about it being unusual for a black man to have had steady work for, 4 years.
> 
> Netanyahu joined Bush and Cheney and was 100% positive that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, no doubt about it. He had them. He lied then so I don't believe him now. He wants our young men and women to go to war for him and use our money to do it. He has an election in 2 weeks and had no business dragging the US into his political agenda at election time. We give Israel over 3 billion in foreign aid, plus over 2 million is government guaranteed loans and this country is is deep debt. It must stop.


Since I have been on this thread I have changed my mind completely about him. It is interesting the discussion about how wonderful he is on other threads on this forum.

I also find the results of the study on the Police situation quite right and I am glad they called it the way it was. Interesting week and interesting day.

talk to you all tomorrow.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I think you are misreading Netanyahu's intentions. He is not asking for American soldiers - he just does not want the US to lessen the sanctions and let Iran have a free year to build nukes. And even if Obama makes his proposal to Iran - why do you think Iran will accept it?

Personally, I would be just as happy if Hertzog wins the elections. But to write that Netanyahu wants American blood and money is disgusting. Do you hear me N? And again I will repeat for all of you fine Christians - if Israel goes down - so will your sacred holy sites. The Muslims would be only so happy to destroy it all as they have done with Buddhist items.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Since I have been on this thread I have changed my mind completely about him. It is interesting the discussion about how wonderful he is on other threads on this forum.
> 
> I also find the results of the study on the Police situation quite right and I am glad they called it the way it was. Interesting week and interesting day.
> 
> talk to you all tomorrow.


I have seen some threads praising him (Netanyahu).
One has a list of the names of the Democrats who do did not attend. If she had been caught up on her current events, she would have known that they never did plan to attend. Instead they stood behind and supported their President. One said she is for Israel . IMHO, if you go against your own country, that would make you a traitor. And there are many many traitors on that thread. Maybe they should all move to Israel if they support Netanyahu.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have seen some threads praising him (Netanyahu).
> One has a list of the names of the Democrats who do did not attend. If she had been caught up on her current events, she would have known that they never did plan to attend. Instead they stood behind and supported their President. One said she is for Israel . IMHO, if you go against your own country, that would make you a traitor. And there are many many traitors on that thread. Maybe they should all move to Israel if they support Netanyahu.


Your last sentence is ridiculous and insulting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I think you are misreading Netanyahu's intentions. He is not asking for American soldiers - he just does not want the US to lessen the sanctions and let Iran have a free year to build nukes. And even if Obama makes his proposal to Iran - why do you think Iran will accept it?
> 
> Personally, I would be just as happy if Hertzog wins the elections. But to write that Netanyahu wants American blood and money is disgusting. Do you hear me N? And again I will repeat for all of you fine Christians - if Israel goes down - so will your sacred holy sites. The Muslims would be only so happy to destroy it all as they have done with Buddhist items.


Wasn't it you that told me that Israel had it's own nuclear program?
I think BiBi should wait for the results of the deal that world leaders are
conferring about. 
What NJG said is true. We have been helping Israel financially and if we go to war beside Israel, many of our soldiers will have their blood spilled. We can't afford another war. It's not just Obama working with Iran. Many global leaders are also involved in these talks.

This is not personal , SQ. We treasure our friendships with our Jewish friends. I just don't like the way things went down today.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Israel is not asking for American soldiers. That is a craziness that Norma started. israel has more nukes than anyone in the ME. If Iran uses its bombs against Israel , Israel would probably finish up the whole area. Is that what you want? Obama is trying to give Iran just what it desires the most - time. Israel knows that Iran will be arming itself to use against Israel. Iran has not hidden its agenda. 

Do you trust Iran, Brat? Do you really think Iran is even going to accept an Obama plan when the US is allegedly one of its greatest foes? All Netanyahu was pointing out that "time" will not make Israel more secure but instead it will be the gift that keeps on giving to Iran. Do you trust Iran, Brat?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> If your printer now has its own email address does that mean that it can join KP under its own name and ask for people to send knitting patterns? Should we be on the look out for a new member of KP who logs on under the name of JBPrints and uses a fancy printer as an avatar?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I watched the entire Netanyahu speech and thought he made a good campaign speech for himself. But his real intention is to sway our country into war with Iran. I don't like the way things dealing with this came about.
> Boehner was completely out of line. If the President refused to meet with him he did so with good reason as NJG stated above.
> 
> On another note. In the WH press room, while the press secretary taking questions about Netanyahu's speech, a reporter brought up the email account Hillary used as Sec of State. It seems that it's perfectly okay for Boehner to break the law, but they are going after Hillary instead..again!
> ...


 :XD: If this is orgasmic the GOP is in bliss. Ta da.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wasn't it you that told me that Israel had it's own nuclear program?
> I think BiBi should wait for the results of the deal that world leaders are
> conferring about.
> What NJG said is true. We have been helping Israel financially and if we go to war beside Israel, many of our soldiers will have their blood spilled. We can't afford another war. It's not just Obama working with Iran. Many global leaders are also involved in these talks.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I think you are misreading Netanyahu's intentions. He is not asking for American soldiers - he just does not want the US to lessen the sanctions and let Iran have a free year to build nukes. And even if Obama makes his proposal to Iran - why do you think Iran will accept it?
> 
> Personally, I would be just as happy if Hertzog wins the elections. But to write that Netanyahu wants American blood and money is disgusting. Do you hear me N? And again I will repeat for all of you fine Christians - if Israel goes down - so will your sacred holy sites. The Muslims would be only so happy to destroy it all as they have done with Buddhist items.


Do you remember what he said about Saddam? He was 100% positive that Saddam had WMD's, said there was no doubt about it. He worked well with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. They all lied and drug us into that war. If there are more sanctions put on Iran, will that stop them from gaining more nuclear power? Of course it won't, and there won't be any inspections to verify anything. More sanctions, no inspections, and then what. The only thing to come of it will be another war in the middle est. We are suppose to learn from our mistakes. Apparently some people have learned nothing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Do you remember what he said about Saddam? He was 100% positive that Saddam had WMD's, said there was no doubt about it. He worked well with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. They all lied and drug us into that war. If there are more sanctions put on Iran, will that stop them from gaining more nuclear power? Of course it won't, and there won't be any inspections to verify anything. More sanctions, no inspections, and then what. The only thing to come of it will be another war in the middle est. We are suppose to learn from our mistakes. Apparently some people have learned nothing.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Israel is not asking for American soldiers. That is a craziness that Norma started. israel has more nukes than anyone in the ME. If Iran uses its bombs against Israel , Israel would probably finish up the whole area. Is that what you want? Obama is trying to give Iran just what it desires the most - time. Israel knows that Iran will be arming itself to use against Israel. Iran has not hidden its agenda.
> 
> Do you trust Iran, Brat? Do you really think Iran is even going to accept an Obama plan when the US is allegedly one of its greatest foes? All Netanyahu was pointing out that "time" will not make Israel more secure but instead it will be the gift that keeps on giving to Iran. Do you trust Iran, Brat?


The object here is to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons. How will sanctions stop that? If Netanyahu didn't want something from the US, he wouldn't have been here today talking to congress. If we impose more sanctions without talks, Iran will continue to make nuclear weapons and if that happens, it will lead to war. What I don't understand is why the republicans want to sabotage the talks, and why they are such war mongers. Let talks be tried first and if it doesn't work, then they can move onto more sanctions. How many countries will impose sanctions on Iran. If others don't join in, it will be a waste of time, and it won't stop Iran from doing what it wants to do.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have seen some threads praising him (Netanyahu).
> One has a list of the names of the Democrats who do did not attend. If she had been caught up on her current events, she would have known that they never did plan to attend. Instead they stood behind and supported their President. One said she is for Israel . IMHO, if you go against your own country, that would make you a traitor. And there are many many traitors on that thread. Maybe they should all move to Israel if they support Netanyahu.


Patty, I'm surprised to hear you say such a red-neck type of thing. To equate supporting Netanyahu with committing treason is not just insulting; it's also moronic.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Your last sentence is ridiculous and insulting.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone . I just got home from a wonderful trip along to Port Renfrew and to Victoria and when I turned on the TV it was mentioning the Justice Dept. on CNN had just announced that Ferguson has been investigated as far as the problems with Police Department there. Really bad results.
> 
> The Police department was held responsible for a basic unfair treatment of Blacks. That their work orders showed really racist remarks on their statements and that there is no question that excessive force was usual. The Justice dept. completed their report - 'wide spread bias (racial) in the courts and by police charges and information from the Police department. Really really bad. Racial bias in their emails on official documents. as well as obvious racial bias in all the Police activities. I am so glad that the investigation proved that the people of Ferguson told the truth. thoughts anyone?


Designer, I deleted some of your post for space reasons.

Apparently, out of the total arrests made by the Ferguson Police over the year up to the Brown shooting, 95% of those were black people. Then of course a homeless black man on Skid Row in Los Angeles was shot while on the ground with police all over him in the last 48 hrs. Police say he was reaching for one of their guns. Reaching mind you. He did not take possession of the gun.

Australian police have a 'shoot now, ask questions later' attitude. I really think what's lacking is quality training in calming people/situations. Also, there needs to be some sort of training to check their egos; so many have over inflated egos and you can tell even before they open their mouths. Pathetic.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wasn't it you that told me that Israel had it's own nuclear program?
> I think BiBi should wait for the results of the deal that world leaders are
> conferring about.
> What NJG said is true. We have been helping Israel financially and if we go to war beside Israel, many of our soldiers will have their blood spilled. We can't afford another war. It's not just Obama working with Iran. Many global leaders are also involved in these talks.
> ...


Israel has had a nuclear program for years. How else could it survive, given the number of much larger countries prepared to attack at any time?

As far as "working with" Iran, guess how well that's going to go. One of the problems in dealing with Muslims is that they have no compunctions against breaking their word to infidels.

And, really, "* We treasure our friendships with our Jewish friends*"? Are you speaking for everyone here or just the non-Jews?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Eve I thought of both you and Wombat -- this must be the absolute opposite of Western Australia. There was bright green moss growing on huge rocks along the highway. The wonderful Douglas Fir trees which are known to have absolutely straight trunks{ Huge and very tall}.
> 
> When there were sailing ships the shipping companies always tried to find ways of obtaining the douglas firs for the masts of their ships. they were tall enough, and exceptionally strong. There were miles and miles of forests - all different shades of green. So different than the views of the Canadian Rockies Forests.


Your pictures are beautiful. What a feast! I'm not from Western Australia but I have spent many, many years holidaying over there. The state is rich and green along the coast in most areas and arid and dry inland. The contrast is stark but both are very beautiful. I think WA has the best beaches in the world bar none!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Do you remember what he said about Saddam? He was 100% positive that Saddam had WMD's, said there was no doubt about it. He worked well with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. They all lied and drug us into that war. If there are more sanctions put on Iran, will that stop them from gaining more nuclear power? Of course it won't, and there won't be any inspections to verify anything. More sanctions, no inspections, and then what. The only thing to come of it will be another war in the middle est. We are suppose to learn from our mistakes. Apparently some people have learned nothing.


From 1999-2009, Netanyahu wasn't even PM of Israel, so how could he have "worked" at all with "Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld"? Please, if you need to accuse him of things, get your facts straight first.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> The object here is to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons. How will sanctions stop that? If Netanyahu didn't want something from the US, he wouldn't have been here today talking to congress. If we impose more sanctions without talks, Iran will continue to make nuclear weapons and if that happens, it will lead to war. What I don't understand is why the republicans want to sabotage the talks, and why they are such war mongers. Let talks be tried first and if it doesn't work, then they can move onto more sanctions. How many countries will impose sanctions on Iran. If others don't join in, it will be a waste of time, and it won't stop Iran from doing what it wants to do.


I think Netanyahu was probably more about shoring up support for the coming election. Clearly Iran has nuclear capability and has had for some time. It was felt years ago that they'd probably have a capability of reaching the U.S., with nukes by 2009. I don't understand why it's all become a big problem all of a sudden.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Bad news this morning. Grace's head had enlarged by a centimeter, she hadn't gained any weight. The ventricles are seriously enlarged. At the dr. she started having seizures. She's been sent to the hospital and will be in surgery very shortly.

I don't have a good feeling about the outcome.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Deep breathe and send love her way. We're thinking of all of you.



jbandsma said:


> Bad news this morning. Grace's head had enlarged by a centimeter, she hadn't gained any weight. The ventricles are seriously enlarged. At the dr. she started having seizures. She's been sent to the hospital and will be in surgery very shortly.
> 
> I don't have a good feeling about the outcome.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Bad news this morning. Grace's head had enlarged by a centimeter, she hadn't gained any weight. The ventricles are seriously enlarged. At the dr. she started having seizures. She's been sent to the hospital and will be in surgery very shortly.
> 
> I don't have a good feeling about the outcome.


Hope everything goes well for the little one. I know from experience that what happened to Grace is not that uncommon with little ones with hydrocephalus. Sometimes it's because the shunt they may have in place becomes kinked or displaced and it's a matter of replacing it. I do hope it's a simple procedure she needs. Thinking of you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Designer, I deleted some of your post for space reasons.
> 
> Apparently, out of the total arrests made by the Ferguson Police over the year up to the Brown shooting, 95% of those were black people. Then of course a homeless black man on Skid Row in Los Angeles was shot while on the ground with police all over him in the last 48 hrs. Police say he was reaching for one of their guns. Reaching mind you. He did not take possession of the gun.
> 
> Australian police have a 'shoot now, ask questions later' attitude. I really think what's lacking is quality training in calming people/situations. Also, there needs to be some sort of training to check their egos; so many have over inflated egos and you can tell even before they open their mouths. Pathetic.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Evidently it's more than a misplaced or kinked shunt. They were able to get in a scan and everything looks ok there. However they've elected to postpone the surgery until they can get the seizures under control. Which, so far, isn't happening. In fact, they're getting worse even with anti-seizure meds.

I don't think Grace is going to make it. Hard as it is to say, maybe that would be for the best.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I watched the entire Netanyahu speech and thought he made a good campaign speech for himself. But his real intention is to sway our country into war with Iran. I don't like the way things dealing with this came about.
> Boehner was completely out of line. If the President refused to meet with him he did so with good reason as NJG stated above.
> 
> On another note. In the WH press room, while the press secretary taking questions about Netanyahu's speech, a reporter brought up the email account Hillary used as Sec of State. It seems that it's perfectly okay for Boehner to break the law, but they are going after Hillary instead..again!
> ...


And her predecessors at State also used their personal e-mail accounts to conduct business. Either what is good for one is good for all, including Hillary, or change the laws so all govt. business has to be conducted using .gov e-mail accounts that belong to the agency which employs the person.

I did business with the director of library systems for each of the military branches for a number of years. Would that all people in authority in the government had the moral and ethical standards those people displayed. They would not even accept lunch from a vendor. Paid with their own agency credit card. Would only bend to allow me to leave the tip for the wait staff.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG wrote "What I don't understand is why the republicans want to sabotage the talks, and why they are such war mongers. Let talks be tried first and if it doesn't work, then they can move onto more sanctions. How many countries will impose sanctions on Iran. If others don't join in, it will be a waste of time, and it won't stop Iran from doing what it wants to do."
---------------------
I agree with you. I personally believe that this situation was deliberately caused by Boehner and if Netanyahu had not accepted the invitation (which was meant, in my opinion, as a slap in the face to Obama at this time), these hard feelings would not have happened. 
All of us on here are friends, no matter what faith we live by, I know it is a very personal matter and I know that after the history of antisemitism around the world it is easy to take things personally. I read all the posts and I don't agree that any of the posts were meant to be personal attacks. But to say that it is insulting, when it was not meant to be insulting is not what we do here.

I removed most of my post as I sounded like I was preaching. I just am not sure but somehow I think that yesterday's meeting was deliberate by Boehner. I am not sure about Netanyahu, but after all the US has done for Israel over the time since it became a State, I think he went over board and caused problems here and in Israel as well.
===========
Judy, I am so sad for dear little Grace. She is in my Prayers - I know there are a lot of non Christians here, but I also know that my faith has never once caused me to feel anything but friendship from all of you. You must know that each and everyone of us are thinking of that sweet little girl and wishing for the very best for her.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have seen some threads praising him (Netanyahu).
> One has a list of the names of the Democrats who do did not attend. If she had been caught up on her current events, she would have known that they never did plan to attend. Instead they stood behind and supported their President. One said she is for Israel . IMHO, if you go against your own country, that would make you a traitor. And there are many many traitors on that thread. Maybe they should all move to Israel if they support Netanyahu.


Then how about people who supported Margaret Thatcher having moved to England, and all the people who supported Nelson Mandela having moved to South Africa? And on and on. You can support the position the leader of a different country takes without being ridiculously simplistic about it. I would have expected more thought from you than to make that sort of statement.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Bad news this morning. Grace's head had enlarged by a centimeter, she hadn't gained any weight. The ventricles are seriously enlarged. At the dr. she started having seizures. She's been sent to the hospital and will be in surgery very shortly.
> 
> I don't have a good feeling about the outcome.


Poor little darling. Prayers are with you that they perform successful surgery and that the situation has been handled before permanent damage has been done. So sorry about this setback.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am afraid I disagree with you Patty. I don't agree that the vast majority are traitors. I believe they are following what they believe to be the truth without making any effort to question those truths. 

I believe the Liberal members had the right not to attend and I agree with them, and their reasons; Once again you can't put people in the same box. I will not call any Americans traitors for disagreeing - I do think it is close with some of those who are so far right that they have lost all sense. All are different. No two people are exactly the same, certainly a large group of people have a lot of differences even if they don't acknowledge that. That old Box again.

Any way, I have said enough on this subject so am going to
go to my meeting and take the day off.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

It is a sad world when politicians use one-upmanship to make themselves seem larger than they are by undermining others regardless of the end results to the people who end up being the ones who suffer from their egoistic mistakes. Make no mistake, everything Mr. Boehner does is meant to undermine Mr. Obama. Everything Mr. Netanyahu does is to promote his chances for reelection. 

What is at stake? Mr. Obama's credibility to the rest of the world in negotiating issues to ultimately protect the United States. That is the first responsibility of the people who have been elected to offices of political power in this country.

Equally, Mr. Netanyahu's responsibility is to protect the safety of Israel. Israel is in a much more tenuous position than the United States, and I can understand his taking as aggressive a position as he has. Some of his predecessors have buckled to International pressure and made Israel more vulnerable to destruction by its neighbors. 

If Canada and Mexico were avowed enemies of the United States and openly bent on the US being wiped off the face of the earth, think what our actions and priorities would be.

Meanwhile the leaders of Israel's neighbors are posturing to keep the militants from overrunning them and taking over. Scary world.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is a sad world when politicians use one-upmanship to make themselves seem larger than they are by undermining others regardless of the end results to the people who end up being the ones who suffer from their egoistic mistakes. Make no mistake, everything Mr. Boehner does is meant to undermine Mr. Obama. Everything Mr. Netanyahu does is to promote his chances for reelection.
> 
> What is at stake? Mr. Obama's credibility to the rest of the world in negotiating issues to ultimately protect the United States. That is the first responsibility of the people who have been elected to offices of political power in this country.
> 
> ...


Marilyn, what you say makes a lot of sense. That is why I don't plan on posting more about the situation. I just don't know the motives or the truth about what went on as far as PM Netanyahu. I do understand that Israel is in a special situation, and therefore don't know the answer for them. I do think it could be been avoided though.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Evidently it's more than a misplaced or kinked shunt. They were able to get in a scan and everything looks ok there. However they've elected to postpone the surgery until they can get the seizures under control. Which, so far, isn't happening. In fact, they're getting worse even with anti-seizure meds.
> 
> I don't think Grace is going to make it. Hard as it is to say, maybe that would be for the best.


That is so sad. Poor little thing. I hope she can overcome this but as you say, it may be for the best that she doesn't. It's so hard to know when they're so little. Very difficult situation for all concerned.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Another point of view. According to the article below, the true risk to Israel is not Iran at all:

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.645233


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For what it's worth, the following appeared in the New Yorker:

_WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)On the eve of the Israeli Prime Ministers address to Congress, House Speaker John Boehner used a joint press conference to praise Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him our closest and most important ally in the fight against President Obama.

Even as the President threatens us with provocative acts, Prime Minister Netanyahus support for us has been unwavering, Boehner said. He understands what many of us have long known: that peace with this enemy can only be achieved through total victory.

Netanyahu had equally high praise for Boehner, saying that no one has been more steadfast and dedicated in the struggle against your President._


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> For what it's worth, the following appeared in the New Yorker:
> 
> _WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)On the eve of the Israeli Prime Ministers address to Congress, House Speaker John Boehner used a joint press conference to praise Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him our closest and most important ally in the fight against President Obama.
> 
> ...


You jest? Or they do?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> Do you remember what he said about Saddam? He was 100% positive that Saddam had WMD's, said there was no doubt about it. He worked well with Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. They all lied and drug us into that war. If there are more sanctions put on Iran, will that stop them from gaining more nuclear power? Of course it won't, and there won't be any inspections to verify anything. More sanctions, no inspections, and then what. The only thing to come of it will be another war in the middle est. We are suppose to learn from our mistakes. Apparently some people have learned nothing.


He was not in office during that time. He can say anything he wants as a private citizen. Do not forget that Hillary - your precious Hillary - voted for the war. And maybe some others of your favorites, too.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> You jest? Or they do?


I think they're serious. I'm certain Boehner thinks Obama is his enemy.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Bad news this morning. Grace's head had enlarged by a centimeter, she hadn't gained any weight. The ventricles are seriously enlarged. At the dr. she started having seizures. She's been sent to the hospital and will be in surgery very shortly.
> 
> I don't have a good feeling about the outcome.


Oh No. My poor Graceeeee. I will send her potent healing energy.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I think they're serious. I'm certain Boehner thinks Obama is his enemy.


Only because the President's behaviour is dignified and Boehner's is questionable at the very least?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Grace went into surgery 10 minutes ago.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Only because the President's behaviour is dignified and Boehner's is questionable at the very least?


Something like that.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Grace went into surgery 10 minutes ago.


Keep us posted. Just said a prayer which startled the Spirits since they rarely hear my voice but they do pay attention when I talk to them.

Bon Chance.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, I'm surprised to hear you say such a red-neck type of thing. To equate supporting Netanyahu with committing treason is not just insulting; it's also moronic.


This is why I have disliked Netanyahu for many years. He is a war monger like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and was there to help start that mess, and now it is starting all over again. This has nothing to do with supporting the Jewish people, it is Netanyahu who is the problem. I do not trust him.
Cowboy Cheney was at the White House yesterday, agreeing with everything Netanyahu said. That in itself should be a red flag.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/10/republicans-netanhayu-charge-u-s-foreign-policy-bush.html


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace went into surgery 10 minutes ago.


We have Grace in our prayers.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> From 1999-2009, Netanyahu wasn't even PM of Israel, so how could he have "worked" at all with "Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld"? Please, if you need to accuse him of things, get your facts straight first.


He testified before congress, and I never said he was Prime Minister then. I posted a link to what he said. My facts are straight, look at it yourself. The whole bunch should have charged with war crimes. Almost 5000 US soldiers killed, he was part of that.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace went into surgery 10 minutes ago.


Im so sorry to hear this. I'll say a prayer. I hope all goes well.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> NJG wrote "What I don't understand is why the republicans want to sabotage the talks, and why they are such war mongers. Let talks be tried first and if it doesn't work, then they can move onto more sanctions. How many countries will impose sanctions on Iran. If others don't join in, it will be a waste of time, and it won't stop Iran from doing what it wants to do."
> ---------------------
> I agree with you. I personally believe that this situation was deliberately caused by Boehner and if Netanyahu had not accepted the invitation (which was meant, in my opinion, as a slap in the face to Obama at this time), these hard feelings would not have happened.
> All of us on here are friends, no matter what faith we live by, I know it is a very personal matter and I know that after the history of antisemitism around the world it is easy to take things personally. I read all the posts and I don't agree that any of the posts were meant to be personal attacks. But to say that it is insulting, when it was not meant to be insulting is not what we do here.
> ...


I agree Shirley. Boehner did it to undermine the president and has been doing it since day 1. We should be use to it by now,but it just causes so much anger and all of these people were elected to govern this country, not go to Washington and play games like 2 year olds. 
If Netanyahu was half the leader he thinks he is, when asked by Boehner to speak, he would have said, I will do it if President Obama approves. That would have been the proper thing to do, and that is exactly what President Obama would have done. Instead he knew it would cause more of a rift in our government and he did it anyway. I have no respect for someone like that. It has been protocol of our government to not insert themselves into another countries elections, that is why President Oboma didn't meet with him. This just makes me so angry and so sad at the same time.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For what it's worth, the following appeared in the New Yorker:
> 
> _WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)On the eve of the Israeli Prime Ministers address to Congress, House Speaker John Boehner used a joint press conference to praise Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him our closest and most important ally in the fight against President Obama.
> 
> ...


Yes, praise for Boehner in order to get the end result he wants, but the rest of the time the whole us can dry up and blow away. How disgusting, and that is a nice way to describe him.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> He was not in office during that time. He can say anything he wants as a private citizen. Do not forget that Hillary - your precious Hillary - voted for the war. And maybe some others of your favorites, too.


I never said he was in office during that time. I can say anything I want as a private citizen also and I did say over and over and over to not invade Iraq. Only thing was my audience was not the US congress so my words mostly went unheard. I was right and he definitely was wrong. So now she is "my precious Hillary." I'll take 10 Hillaries before I would take one Netanyahu
Many people voted for the war based on lies told by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Netanyahu. He comes here to speak and to kiss a$$ and has the nerve to say "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." Ya great man!!!!!!!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hillary makes Clair Underwood look like Mother Theresa. You can spout all the bloody bleep you like. 

All politicians suck but I take offense when you suggest that Israel wants the blood of Americans. That is the old blood libel that is totally reprehensible. 

I think I have made my opinion quite clear on this matter and I am moving on. The worst crime is to repeat oneself ad nauseum and being boring.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Grace is out of surgery and so far doing well. Will probably get a fuller report when people can breathe again.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hillary makes Clair Underwood look like Mother Theresa. You can spout all the bloody bleep you like.
> 
> All politicians suck but I take offense when you suggest that Israel wants the blood of Americans. That is the old blood libel that is totally reprehensible.
> 
> I think I have made my opinion quite clear on this matter and I am moving on. The worst crime is to repeat oneself ad nauseum and being boring.


I have no idea who Clair Underwood is.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace is out of surgery and so far doing well. Will probably get a fuller report when people can breathe again.


I hope all the loving good wishes from Gracie's friends here at KP are wafting toward her and boding well for her future. Thank you for keeping us updated. Sweet little mite to have to undergo so much in her earliest days.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace is out of surgery and so far doing well. Will probably get a fuller report when people can breathe again.


Oh, thank you!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

It's not a fun picture but this is what the poor baby has gone through.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> It's not a fun picture but this is what the poor baby has gone through.


Oh, poor baby. Sweet little thing. I hope she does well.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, poor baby. Sweet little thing. I hope she does well.


Thank you


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's not a fun picture but this is what the poor baby has gone through.


Oh, what a beautiful little girl. She is precious. Good luck Grace.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

It is miraculous what skilled doctors can do nowadays. Good luck for a happy outcome. She has the sweetest expression on her face.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Our Graceeee looks great after her ordeal. She seems like a toughie like Aunt Judy.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Our Graceeee looks great after her ordeal. She seems like a toughie like Aunt Judy.


I've been told I need to make her BIGGER hats ... to accommodate the tubing. It's going to be there for a while.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This is hilarious about Turtle & Carrot.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/03/1368229/-Jon-Stewart-How-can-you-gamble-with-homeland-security-Republicans-as-scared-as-you-are?detail=email


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, I'm surprised to hear you say such a red-neck type of thing. To equate supporting Netanyahu with committing treason is not just insulting; it's also moronic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Israel has had a nuclear program for years. How else could it survive, given the number of much larger countries prepared to attack at any time?
> 
> As far as "working with" Iran, guess how well that's going to go. One of the problems in dealing with Muslims is that they have no compunctions against breaking their word to infidels.
> 
> And, really, "* We treasure our friendships with our Jewish friends*"? Are you speaking for everyone here or just the non-Jews?


PP, what's up? We don't agree with each other on this. Let's agree to disagree. I meant no insult to you or any other person of the Jewish faith. 
* I was speaking for most of the people on this thread who have stated this before. Next time I will say "I treasure our friendship" so as not to confuse you. I apologize if offense was taken by you.*


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I have no idea who Clair Underwood is.


She is a character from "The House of Cards". Actually, she plays the first lady.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is a character from "The House of Cards". Actually, she plays the first lady.


Ok, thanks, I never watch. In fact if there is a tv show about something political, I seldom watch. There is so much crap going on in the real world, I can't stand to sit and watch something that is suppose to be entertainment about the same thing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace went into surgery 10 minutes ago.


The poor baby. I hope this helps. My thoughts are with her.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> This is why I have disliked Netanyahu for many years. He is a war monger like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld and was there to help start that mess, and now it is starting all over again. This has nothing to do with supporting the Jewish people, it is Netanyahu who is the problem. I do not trust him.
> Cowboy Cheney was at the White House yesterday, agreeing with everything Netanyahu said. That in itself should be a red flag.
> 
> http://www.politicususa.com/2015/02/10/republicans-netanhayu-charge-u-s-foreign-policy-bush.html


You can dislike him all you want. I dislike him. But he can't be blamed for our stupid foreign policy then or now. We have to take responsibility for that ourselves.

He may have lied to Congress, but he didn't force them to vote for W's war. You seem to see him as larger-than-life. He can't possibly be blamed for everything you dislike.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You can dislike him all you want. I dislike him. But he can't be blamed for our stupid foreign policy then or now. We have to take responsibility for that ourselves.
> 
> He may have lied to Congress, but he didn't force them to vote for W's war. You seem to see him as larger-than-life. He can't possibly be blamed for everything you dislike.


I never intended to put blame on him for everything that I see as wrong and I am sorry if I made it look that way, but I do blame him for being part of it and now inserting himself in our government again. Like I stated before I would have respect for him if he had said I will come to speak if your president agrees I should. He just chose to undermine Obama instead, as if he isn't there, just like all the republicans do, and I find that more that totally inappropriate and disgusting. Again I never said he forced anyone to do anything, but he chose to influence congress about Saddam so I don't think he can be trusted, anymore than Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld can. I am very glad Obama won't take advice from him.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> He testified before congress, and I never said he was Prime Minister then. I posted a link to what he said. My facts are straight, look at it yourself. The whole bunch should have charged with war crimes. Almost 5000 US soldiers killed, he was part of that.


Are you implying that even though he was not the PM of Israel, he somehow had so much influence on our own leaders that he formed our foreign policy? He's beginning to sound like some supernatural character.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hillary makes Clair Underwood look like Mother Theresa. You can spout all the bloody bleep you like.
> 
> All politicians suck but I take offense when you suggest that Israel wants the blood of Americans. That is the old blood libel that is totally reprehensible.
> 
> I think I have made my opinion quite clear on this matter and I am moving on. The worst crime is to repeat oneself ad nauseum and being boring.


Thank you, Sloth. You put it very well.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I never said he was in office during that time. I can say anything I want as a private citizen also and I did say over and over and over to not invade Iraq. Only thing was my audience was not the US congress so my words mostly went unheard. I was right and he definitely was wrong. So now she is "my precious Hillary." I'll take 10 Hillaries before I would take one Netanyahu
> Many people voted for the war based on lies told by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Netanyahu. He comes here to speak and to kiss a$$ and has the nerve to say "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." Ya great man!!!!!!!


Did he really say that? I have to see it - please send me a link.

BTW, Netanyahu is not yours to take, the way Hillary is. Please remember, he's the leader of a totally different country. I haven't seen you this angry at Kim Jong Un.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's not a fun picture but this is what the poor baby has gone through.


And she's still beautiful.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you implying that even though he was not the PM of Israel, he somehow had so much influence on our own leaders that he formed our foreign policy? He's beginning to sound like some supernatural character.


No that is not what I said. Read it again. I said he was a part of it. He contributed to the Iraq invasion like Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld did. They all played the game and now he wants to play again. Bush/Cheney didn't need any pushing, but they loved having one more person in agreement with them. He testified and told them exactly what they wanted to hear. They already believed everything he had to say even before he said it, they just wanted him to pass that info along as more proof for their cause, and he did exactly as they wanted him too. This time I think he is a little more in charge and the US republicans are more followers- their main goal is to destroy the president. Problem is they may find themselves in another quagmire as they try to accomplish their goal.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> PP, what's up? We don't agree with each other on this. Let's agree to disagree. I meant no insult to you or any other person of the Jewish faith.
> * I was speaking for most of the people on this thread who have stated this before. Next time I will say "I treasure our friendship" so as not to confuse you. I apologize if offense was taken by you.*


*I'm sure you didn't mean it as an insult, but for many historical reasons, it could be taken as one. Any time you single out Jews as something separate or different is a little frightening to us.*


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure you didn't mean it as an insult, but for many historical reasons, it could be taken as one. Any time you single out Jews as something separate or different is a little frightening to us.


Note taken


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Did he really say that? I have to see it - please send me a link.
> 
> BTW, Netanyahu is not yours to take, the way Hillary is. Please remember, he's the leader of a totally different country. I haven't seen you this angry at Kim Jong Un.


I think it is time to stop. You will continue to pick apart everything I say, so lets just quit. Your BTW comment is totally childish as you know what I meant and then you try to twist it around so you can make me look stupid. Well give it up. I will be angry at whomever I choose.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> No that is not what I said. Read it again. I said he was a part of it. He contributed to the Iraq invasion like Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld did. They all played the game and now he wants to play again. Bush/Cheney didn't need any pushing, but they loved having one more person in agreement with them. He testified and told them exactly what they wanted to hear. They already believed everything he had to say even before he said it, they just wanted him to pass that info along as more proof for their cause, and he did exactly as they wanted him too. This time I think he is a little more in charge and the US republicans are more followers- their main goal is to destroy the president. Problem is they may find themselves in another quagmire as they try to accomplish their goal.


There were other foreign leaders who agreed with our administration. Where's Tony Blair, for instance?

Obama made a big mistake when he failed to send anyone to Paris after the Charlie Hebdo incident. It certainly gave Israel a reason not to trust him.

I'd like to drop this - it's making me tired. So I give up. Blame the Iraq War on whoever you like.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> I think it is time to stop. You will continue to pick apart everything I say, so lets just quit. Your BTW comment is totally childish as you know what I meant and then you try to twist it around so you can make me look stupid. Well give it up. I will be angry at whomever I choose.


PP did not make you look stupid. You did.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am sick of all this!


So am I Shirley, some of these people are behaving exactly like the Denim women accuse us of. This is an extremely sensitive subject to some people, but discussing and debating doesn't need to stoop to the level it has reached.

I, for one. am done with this.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace is out of surgery and so far doing well. Will probably get a fuller report when people can breathe again.


I'm glad she got through the surgery and hope that she continues to do well.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's not a fun picture but this is what the poor baby has gone through.


Precious Grace is in my prayers.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I truly believe everything happens for a reason. We frequently don't realize the reason until later. Thinking of you.



jbandsma said:


> Evidently it's more than a misplaced or kinked shunt. They were able to get in a scan and everything looks ok there. However they've elected to postpone the surgery until they can get the seizures under control. Which, so far, isn't happening. In fact, they're getting worse even with anti-seizure meds.
> 
> I don't think Grace is going to make it. Hard as it is to say, maybe that would be for the best.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My iPad won't allow me to copy and paste these days, but
The Fantasy World of Benjamin Netanyahu by Rabbi Michael Lerner is an interesting opinion piece.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Judy,
Hugs and prayers for Baby Grace. She is a precious one!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Then how about people who supported Margaret Thatcher having moved to England, and all the people who supported Nelson Mandela having moved to South Africa? And on and on. You can support the position the leader of a different country takes without being ridiculously simplistic about it. I would have expected more thought from you than to make that sort of statement.


Exactly, Marilyn. I was surprised by that, too.

I hope you and David and offspring are having a Happy Purim.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Another point of view. According to the article below, the true risk to Israel is not Iran at all:
> 
> http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.645233


That was interesting. Haaretz is a leftist newspaper and certainly has a leftist take on things. I still think Iran will become a (more) serious problem, but there's no doubt that all those "settlements" aren't doing the country any good.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> No that is not what I said. Read it again. I said he was a part of it. He contributed to the Iraq invasion like Bush Cheney and Rumsfeld did. They all played the game and now he wants to play again. Bush/Cheney didn't need any pushing, but they loved having one more person in agreement with them. He testified and told them exactly what they wanted to hear. They already believed everything he had to say even before he said it, they just wanted him to pass that info along as more proof for their cause, and he did exactly as they wanted him too. This time I think he is a little more in charge and the US republicans are more followers- their main goal is to destroy the president. Problem is they may find themselves in another quagmire as they try to accomplish their goal.


IMO, Netanyahu didn't contribute to the Iraq war. And the only deception that took place was that on the American public. The real reason we went to war with Iraq, was to save the dollar and stop the collapse of the US. It was all about oil and money. Sadaam Hussein started to sell oil for gold. If this was allowed, it would have caused the collapse of the petrodollar. The only thing that props up the worthless dollar is that every nation in the world must hold dollars to buy oil. Sadaam Hussein had gotten fed up with the US inflating the dollar and cheating the world, and he'd started selling his oil for gold. The entire house of cards was about to fall.

IMO, congress had to be aware of the situation. The whole "weapons of mass destruction" thing, was a ruse, created to deceive the American people into thinking we had to go to war because of wmds. But in reality, the truth would have caused a panic. We had to remove Sadaam Hussein to save the petrodollar and to set an example for everyone else who might be considering doing the same thing.

Right now, Russia is selling oil for gold and currencies other than the dollar. The BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) are conducting trade on currencies other than the dollar. IMO, the reason we got involved in overthrowing the government of Ukraine, was to hurt Russia's ability to sell their oil. I predict that we will be going to war with Russia and China in the near future, unless they toe the line and use the petrodollar.

Everything is about oil, money and power.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For what it's worth, the following appeared in the New Yorker:
> 
> _WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)On the eve of the Israeli Prime Ministers address to Congress, House Speaker John Boehner used a joint press conference to praise Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him our closest and most important ally in the fight against President Obama.
> 
> ...


This is from the Borowitz Report, and should therefore have had a honking big red Satire sign at the top.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

In the newsletter, in case you didn't see it


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Exactly, Marilyn. I was surprised by that, too.
> 
> I hope you and David and offspring are having a Happy Purim.


Yes, Happy Purim!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> In the newsletter, in case you didn't see it


What a cute little wombutt it is!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Happy Purim!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks for the kind wishes, Amigas!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I've been told I need to make her BIGGER hats ... to accommodate the tubing. It's going to be there for a while.


Seems like it might have been a mechanical issue? Dear little thing. She looks comfortable in spite of it all. I sincerely hope she recovers well and I'm thinking of you.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> In the newsletter, in case you didn't see it


I'm surprised no cubes are visible!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That was interesting. Haaretz is a leftist newspaper and certainly has a leftist take on things. I still think Iran will become a (more) serious problem, but there's no doubt that all those "settlements" aren't doing the country any good.


Israel is vulnerable to many things and no doubt Netanyahu has her best interests at heart. I hope his focus is trained on the more pressing issue and he works from there although I'm sure even he has difficulty deciding which issue is more pressing. I don't envy him.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

This is the crap we're up against from the tea party and we really need to spread this far and wide.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03/05/reporters-and-lawyers-who-worked-on-murdered-nu/202762


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> And her predecessors at State also used their personal e-mail accounts to conduct business. Either what is good for one is good for all, including Hillary, or change the laws so all govt. business has to be conducted using .gov e-mail accounts that belong to the agency which employs the person.
> 
> I did business with the director of library systems for each of the military branches for a number of years. Would that all people in authority in the government had the moral and ethical standards those people displayed. They would not even accept lunch from a vendor. Paid with their own agency credit card. Would only bend to allow me to leave the tip for the wait staff.


On the CBS evening news last night, they said Kerry is the first SOS to use government email exclusively for his SOS business. I have a feeling what we're seeing in Hillary Clinton's case is the start of a long campaign to discredit her if she runs for President in 2016. Smear alert, folks. Every scandal we ever heard about President Clinton and/or Hilary Clinton is going to be yanked out of its grave and given new life.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Happy Purim!


There can be no other kind. It is a very wacky holiday. Thank you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Happy Purim!


Thank you, Cheeky!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> On the CBS evening news last night, they said Kerry is the first SOS to use government email exclusively for his SOS business. I have a feeling what we're seeing in Hillary Clinton's case is the start of a long campaign to discredit her if she runs for President in 2016. Smear alert, folks. Every scandal we ever heard about President Clinton and/or Hilary Clinton is going to be yanked out of its grave and given new life.


I read recently that she's asked for her emails to be made available to the public. I think this 'incident' re Mrs. Clinton is being exploited out of pure desperation!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I read recently that she's asked for her emails to be made available to the public. I think this 'incident' re Mrs. Clinton is being exploited out of pure desperation!


Three words you will start hearing more and more as we get close to 2016:

Vince Foster Benghazi...or lots of combinations of those 3.

Since she's been literally accused of the murder of the 4 people in Benghazi, they're sure to bring up the old slander of her having murdered Foster.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Three words you will start hearing more and more as we get close to 2016:
> 
> Vince Foster Benghazi...or lots of combinations of those 3.
> 
> Since she's been literally accused of the murder of the 4 people in Benghazi, they're sure to bring up the old slander of her having murdered Foster.


But but....... Claire Underwood murders.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> But but....... Claire Underwood murders.


You never considered that her character was modeled on what the right accuses Hillary of?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> You never considered that her character was modeled on what the right accuses Hillary of?


I am not sure if CU is just good theatre or based on Hillary. Do you think Hollywood is more right or left winged?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am not sure if CU is just good theatre or based on Hillary. Do you think Hollywood is more right or left winged?


I think the program innovators would sell their souls to get a show on the air so you have to look at who owns the channel for that insight.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm surprised no cubes are visible!


I was considering your feelings. No public display.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> But but....... Claire Underwood murders.


I guess I'll be the last to watch House of Cards.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Three words you will start hearing more and more as we get close to 2016:
> 
> Vince Foster Benghazi...or lots of combinations of those 3.
> 
> Since she's been literally accused of the murder of the 4 people in Benghazi, they're sure to bring up the old slander of her having murdered Foster.


It's outrageous. I also read there's going to be another inquiry re Benghazi. Hasn't there already been about three?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I was considering your feelings. No public display.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: We wombats have no privacy issues but thank you anyway!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's outrageous. I also read there's going to be another inquiry re Benghazi. Hasn't there already been about three?


Three? More like 5 or 6.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Three? More like 5 or 6.


I hope Hilary does run. I get the feeling the GOP are sweating in their jocks hoping she won't. Will be most interesting to see what happens.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I hope Hilary does run. I get the feeling the GOP are sweating in their jocks hoping she won't. Will be most interesting to see what happens.


Just looked it up...there have been 7 so far.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Just looked it up...there have been 7 so far.


They keep digging for dirt and all they get are potatoes. It is a shame they can't stick to issues that matter to all the rest of us and stop their p---ing contest.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Just looked it up...there have been 7 so far.


They keep digging for dirt and all they get are potatoes. It is a shame they can't stick to issues that matter to all the rest of us and stop their p---ing contest.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> They keep digging for dirt and all they get are potatoes. It is a shame they can't stick to issues that matter to all the rest of us and stop their p---ing contest.


Well, when Bill was in office Newt Gingrich actually told a group that they'd just keep throwing s--- at him until something sticks.

I guess they're going to resurrect that tactic, too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Well, when Bill was in office Newt Gingrich actually told a group that they'd just keep throwing s--- at him until something sticks.
> 
> I guess they're going to resurrect that tactic, too.


Maybe if we are lucky it will blow back in their faces.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's outrageous. I also read there's going to be another inquiry re Benghazi. Hasn't there already been about three?


This will make eight.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

I prefer Elizabeth Warren over Hillary - hands down.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I prefer Elizabeth Warren over Hillary - hands down.


So do I. BUT...she can do a lot more where she is than she'd ever be able to as president. Especially when it comes to reigning in the bat guano crazies in congress.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I prefer Elizabeth Warren over Hillary - hands down.


What is Warren's foreign policy?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I prefer Elizabeth Warren over Hillary - hands down.


Sorry - cannot multi-task.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> What is Warren's foreign policy?


I do think a lot of people feel she is weak in that area. I know I'll get slammed for this - but I don't give a damn.

The problems we face in this country right now are just as big as the problems we face in the world. The extreme right's agenda and plan to destroy the country must be confronted, but all we do is wring our hands while we allow them to dominate the conversation and control the narrative. If republicans win in 2016, I truly believe we will see changes in his country that amount to the seeds of destruction. They're trying now, at the state level, to set the stage for numerous regressive policies. This is a real agenda. And they are dead set on destroying our economy. We won't need a foreign policy if they prevail.

Warren stands up to them. We need her and others like her.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And do they think this will hide the fact that they have no solutions, no candidates and no brains?



MaidInBedlam said:


> On the CBS evening news last night, they said Kerry is the first SOS to use government email exclusively for his SOS business. I have a feeling what we're seeing in Hillary Clinton's case is the start of a long campaign to discredit her if she runs for President in 2016. Smear alert, folks. Every scandal we ever heard about President Clinton and/or Hilary Clinton is going to be yanked out of its grave and given new life.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I read recently that she's asked for her emails to be made available to the public. I think this 'incident' re Mrs. Clinton is being exploited out of pure desperation!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I think the program innovators would sell their souls to get a show on the air so you have to look at who owns the channel for that insight.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And NO ATTENTION to any of the important issues. I'm sick of it.



Wombatnomore said:


> It's outrageous. I also read there's going to be another inquiry re Benghazi. Hasn't there already been about three?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> They keep digging for dirt and all they get are potatoes. It is a shame they can't stick to issues that matter to all the rest of us and stop their p---ing contest.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombat I hope you enjoyed your trip to Cradle Mountain. Your photo has just popped up as my screen saver with Bing.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Wombat I hope you enjoyed your trip to Cradle Mountain. Your photo has just popped up as my screen saver with Bing.


Shucks. They are much cuter than Sloths. But I never heard of them before the KP experience.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shucks. They are much cuter than Sloths. But I never heard of them before the KP experience.


No, they're not. The upside down thing is hard to beat.

Though the square doodoo is worth a couple of cuteness points, too.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> No, they're not. The upside down thing is hard to beat.
> 
> Though the square doodoo is worth a couple of cuteness points, too.


I only use baby sloths because the adult ones are ..... well judge for yourself. It is their work ethic that appeals to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I only use baby sloths because the adult ones are ..... well judge for yourself. It is their work ethic that appeals to me.


Oy. It looks like something from The Crawling Dead.

On the other hand, there's this, which for some reason I can't download: http://cdn.omg-facts.com/2012/11/18/4ebbae6ef3b850f0590101bfb29d00f1.jpg


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oy. It looks like something from The Crawling Dead.
> 
> On the other hand, there's this, which for some reason I can't download: http://cdn.omg-facts.com/2012/11/18/4ebbae6ef3b850f0590101bfb29d00f1.jpg


Aw come on. We all have a bad pic day occasionally. I like the nose.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

A bright spot in the news. Limbaugh is on the ropes?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/05/1368747/--Rush-Limbaugh-Admits-Defeat-On-Facebook-Reports-Of-Being-Dropped-In-Chicago-Begin-To-Fly?detail=email


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> A bright spot in the news. Limbaugh is on the ropes?
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/05/1368747/--Rush-Limbaugh-Admits-Defeat-On-Facebook-Reports-Of-Being-Dropped-In-Chicago-Begin-To-Fly?detail=email


Now -there's- something to look forward to.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> A bright spot in the news. Limbaugh is on the ropes?
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/03/05/1368747/--Rush-Limbaugh-Admits-Defeat-On-Facebook-Reports-Of-Being-Dropped-In-Chicago-Begin-To-Fly?detail=email


Please tell me this has nothing to do with boxing. Could you see Limbaugh as a Golden Gloves participant?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Please tell me this has nothing to do with boxing. Could you see Limbaugh as a Golden Gloves participant?


LOL. Quite an image, Purl.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Please tell me this has nothing to do with boxing. Could you see Limbaugh as a Golden Gloves participant?


Maybe as a Golden Shower participant.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Maybe as a Golden Shower participant.


Giving or receiving?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Giving or receiving?


He's already given his share. Recipient, of course.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Maybe as a Golden Shower participant.


Hey, watch what you say. There are grandchildren around. Would you kiss the triplets with that mouth?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Giving or receiving?


Blecchh! Don't encourage her. Max will prob. learn to read because of messages like that.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Hey, watch what you say. There are grandchildren around. Would you kiss the triplets with that mouth?


Yes. They wouldn't have any idea of what I was talking about, would they?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Wombat I hope you enjoyed your trip to Cradle Mountain. Your photo has just popped up as my screen saver with Bing.


Ah, yes Eve! T'was quite delightful! I came across many a petrified creature frozen by the snow. :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No, they're not. The upside down thing is hard to beat.
> 
> Though the square doodoo is worth a couple of cuteness points, too.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And NO ATTENTION to any of the important issues. I'm sick of it.


It's appalling that there is to be a 9th investigation into Benghazi. Who in particular is driving this?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I only use baby sloths because the adult ones are ..... well judge for yourself. It is their work ethic that appeals to me.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:

The adult ones are just a bit more gangly! Faces are just as cute as the babies. That one has a healthy plume of algae!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's appalling that there is to be a 9th investigation into Benghazi. Who in particular is driving this?


Name a congresscritter with an R after his/her name.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oy. It looks like something from The Crawling Dead.
> 
> On the other hand, there's this, which for some reason I can't download: http://cdn.omg-facts.com/2012/11/18/4ebbae6ef3b850f0590101bfb29d00f1.jpg


Talk about flogging a dead horse! Or should I say a live wombat? :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Name a congresscritter with an R after his/her name.


Boenher.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yes. They wouldn't have any idea of what I was talking about, would they?


No. The Golden Shower is peculiar to the Europeans although some in the west extoll it's delights. Eeww.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oy. It looks like something from The Crawling Dead.
> 
> On the other hand, there's this, which for some reason I can't download: http://cdn.omg-facts.com/2012/11/18/4ebbae6ef3b850f0590101bfb29d00f1.jpg


Here is the image that you could not access.

Can I be cheeky and say tongue in cheek that this is a photo of our Wombat when someone has upset her and got right up her nose?

It is OK, I am hiding under the bed, she cannot reach me there. :lol:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> No. The Golden Shower is peculiar to the Europeans although some in the west extoll it's delights. Eeww.


I hope you do not mean Western Australia when you say "although some in the west extoll it's delights". I know what it means because my son explained it to me a couple of years ago. He said that certain men who frequent certain establishments, which I shall not name because this is a family chat show, enjoy indulging in this pastime.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Here is the image that you could not access.
> 
> Can I be cheeky and say tongue in cheek that this is a photo of our Wombat when someone has upset her and got right up her nose?
> 
> It is OK, I am hiding under the bed, she cannot reach me there. :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Yes you may! It's a rather unfortunate look of the wombat though. I prefer it when my mouth is closed. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I hope you do not mean Western Australia when you say "although some in the west extoll it's delights". I know what it means because my son explained it to me a couple of years ago. He said that certain men who frequent certain establishments, which I shall not name because this is a family chat show, enjoy indulging in this pastime.


I'm not referring to W.A., in particular although who knows? The secrets behind closed doors across the globe would be sure to shock even the most seasoned purveyors of such 'delights.'


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am sorry now that I did not teach my daughter to say she wanted to be a Golden Stream Queen when she was grew up. That would have been funny.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am sorry now that I did not teach my daughter to say she wanted to be a Golden Stream Queen when she was grew up. That would have been funny.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yes. They wouldn't have any idea of what I was talking about, would they?


Oh, okay.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Here is the image that you could not access.
> 
> Can I be cheeky and say tongue in cheek that this is a photo of our Wombat when someone has upset her and got right up her nose?
> 
> It is OK, I am hiding under the bed, she cannot reach me there. :lol:


That's the one, and you describe her perfectly. :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: Yes you may! It's a rather unfortunate look of the wombat though. I prefer it when my mouth is closed. :-D


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am sorry now that I did not teach my daughter to say she wanted to be a Golden Stream Queen when she was grew up. That would have been funny.


That would have endeared you to her even more than you already are.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That would have endeared you to her even more than you already are.


I would have told her that she is a the Fairy Golden Stream Queen and she streams on deserving children fine liquid gold.

Once when she was taking a bath when she was about 2, I took the opportunity to clean the toilet. I mentioned to her that I hope when she becomes an adult she will not have to wash toilets. For about a year after that she told others that she will be a toilet washer when she grows up. The kid's alright. Allright? all right?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Happy International Women's Day
KPFA which can be accessed on the web. Google kpfa radio is broadcasting a whole day of women's programing.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Commemorating the 50th Anniversary of "Bloody Sunday," the Selma-to-Montgomery March, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 

ON MARCH 7, Reverend Hosea Williams and John Lewis stepped from the pulpit of Brown Chapel Church and led a group of 600 toward Montgomery. After just six blocks, when they crossed the now infamous Edmund Pettus Bridge over the Alabama River, Sheriff Jimmy Clarks deputies and state troopers dispatched by Gov. Wallace attacked the group with nightsticks and tear gas, injuring dozens. The violence stopped the marchers first attempt, but they would not be silenced or stopped for good.
THE EVENT CAME TO BE KNOWN AS BLOODY SUNDAY.
Two weeks later, under the protection of Alabama National Guardsmen and Army troops, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. set off again from Selma and marched along U.S. Hwy. 80 to the capital city.
The March continues. Civil Rights in and around Selma provide moving examples of what ordinary people can do. Visit our historic city and follow in the footsteps of individuals who shaped some of the most pivotal moments in Americas history.

Selma and the Alabama Black Belt were the battlegrounds for the Voting Rights Movement that resulted in the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Alabamians stood up and peacefully fought for the right to vote. SNCC, SCLC, national churches and religious organizations, civil rights and labor organizations, and stars of the Movement supported the Alabama Voting Rights Movement. We will commemorate and thank them for their work, leadership and sacrifice. 


www.selma50.com/ www.npr.org/.../obama-returns-to-selma-for-50th-anniversary-of-historic-march
Source; Countdown To The Official 50th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday, 
the Selma-to-Montgomery March, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I heard President Obama's comments & found them stirring.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Commemorating the 50th Anniversary of "Bloody Sunday," the Selma-to-Montgomery March, and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
> 
> ON MARCH 7, Reverend Hosea Williams and John Lewis stepped from the pulpit of Brown Chapel Church and led a group of 600 toward Montgomery. After just six blocks, when they crossed the now infamous Edmund Pettus Bridge over the Alabama River, Sheriff Jimmy Clarks deputies and state troopers dispatched by Gov. Wallace attacked the group with nightsticks and tear gas, injuring dozens. The violence stopped the marchers first attempt, but they would not be silenced or stopped for good.
> THE EVENT CAME TO BE KNOWN AS BLOODY SUNDAY.
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Just heard on the news that Sen Tom Cotton of Ark sent a letter to Iran stating that they don't understand our constitution. He also stated that an executive order from the president is not permanent and can be changed anytime. If it is war that these repugs want, then let them be the first to go over and fight, then they can send their sons and daughters and grandkids, too. 
How very Forest Gumpish of him!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just heard on the news that Sen Tom Cotton of Ark sent a letter to Iran stating that they don't understand our constitution. He also stated that an executive order from the president is not permanent and can be changed anytime. If it is war that these repugs want, then let them be the first to go over and fight, then they can send their sons and daughters and grandkids, too.
> How very Forest Gumpish of him!


Interesting article - including motives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html

Some days I feel I've stepped into an alternate universe.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Interesting article - including motives.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html
> 
> Some days I feel I've stepped into an alternate universe.


Only some days? I think I've felt like that for about 15 years.

Ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's book "The Lathe of Heaven"? That's what I feel like a lot of the time.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Only some days? I think I've felt like that for about 15 years.
> 
> Ever read Ursula K. LeGuin's book "The Lathe of Heaven"? That's what I feel like a lot of the time.


I haven't, but I looked it up. I can relate.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Interesting article - including motives.
> R
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html
> 
> Some days I feel I've stepped into an alternate universe.


What is wrong with these people? How much gall does it take? All 47 of them should be tried for treason for sabotaging the efforts of the president and the state department.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace is out of surgery and so far doing well. Will probably get a fuller report when people can breathe again.


Hi! I was just wondering how Grace is doing. Any updates?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> What is wrong with these people? How much gall does it take? All 47 of them should be tried for treason for sabotaging the efforts of the president and the state department.


We are living in the land of Bizarro. Remember Seinfeld. The GOP say they love this country but it is by their actions that we see this is not true. They are not patriots and are taking the country down a path of destruction. Carrying a gun in one hand and a bible in the other does not a patriot make. We the Liberals are the true patriots who love our country and are trying to do the very best for "we the people".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm reactionary but I call that treason. Damn him.



BrattyPatty said:


> Just heard on the news that Sen Tom Cotton of Ark sent a letter to Iran stating that they don't understand our constitution. He also stated that an executive order from the president is not permanent and can be changed anytime. If it is war that these repugs want, then let them be the first to go over and fight, then they can send their sons and daughters and grandkids, too.
> How very Forest Gumpish of him!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm 'getting' angry.



DGreen said:


> Interesting article - including motives.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html
> 
> Some days I feel I've stepped into an alternate universe.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're thinking the same way. Someone should really go after them. Hillary? Liz?



cookiequeen said:


> What is wrong with these people? How much gall does it take? All 47 of them should be tried for treason for sabotaging the efforts of the president and the state department.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We are living in the land of Bizarro. Remember Seinfeld. The GOP say they love this country but it is by their actions that we see this is not true. They are not patriots and are taking the country down a path of destruction. Carrying a gun in one hand and a bible in the other does not a patriot make. We the Liberals are the true patriots who love our country and are trying to do the very best for "we the people".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi! I was just wondering how Grace is doing. Any updates?


Not yet. But, in this case, I have to think no news is at least not bad


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Not yet. But, in this case, I have to think no news is at least not bad


Thanks! I've been thinking of her, so much.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We are living in the land of Bizarro. Remember Seinfeld. The GOP say they love this country but it is by their actions that we see this is not true. They are not patriots and are taking the country down a path of destruction. Carrying a gun in one hand and a bible in the other does not a patriot make. We the Liberals are the true patriots who love our country and are trying to do the very best for "we the people".


Sometimes attributed to Sinclair Lewis (disputed): When Fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag and waving a cross.

From Gideon Planish (1943): I just wish people wouldnt quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Sometimes attributed to Sinclair Lewis (disputed): When Fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in a flag and waving a cross.
> 
> From Gideon Planish (1943): I just wish people wouldnt quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls.


The more things change, the more they stay the same.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

If you don't know whether to laugh or cry, always laugh. From today's New Yorker:

*Iran Offers to Mediate Talks Between Republicans and Obama*

By Andy Borowitz

TEHRAN (The Borowitz Report)Stating that their continuing hostilities are a threat to world peace, Iran has offered to mediate talks between congressional Republicans and President Obama.

Irans Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, made the offer one day after Iran received what he called a worrisome letter from Republican leaders, which suggested to him that the relationship between Republicans and Obama has deteriorated dangerously.

Tensions between these two historic enemies have been high in recent years, but we believe they are now at a boiling point, Khamenei said. As a result, Iran feels it must offer itself as a peacemaker.

He said that his nation was the logical choice to jumpstart negotiations between Obama and the Republicans because it has become clear that both sides currently talk more to Iran than to each other.

He invited Obama and the Republicans to meet in Tehran to hash out their differences and called on world powers to force the two bitter foes to the bargaining table, adding, It is time to stop the madness.

Hours after Iran made its offer, President Obama said that he was willing to meet with his congressional adversaries under the auspices of Tehran, but questioned whether any deal reached with Republicans is worth the paper its written on.

For their part, the Republicans said they would only agree to talks if there were no preconditions, such as recognizing President Obamas existence.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Apparently, Iranians understand our system of government and international law better than our Senators. Iran's response to the recent treasonous letter signed by 47 of our idiots in Washington:

http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2015/mar/09/part-ii-iran-responds-gop-letter


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Apparently, Iranians understand our system of government and international law better than our Senators. Iran's response to the recent treasonous letter signed by 47 of our idiots in Washington:
> 
> http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2015/mar/09/part-ii-iran-responds-gop-letter


It is just that, D. Treasonous. They should be removed from office. I knew that some of these GOP senators were bat sh*t crazy, but I didn't think they would go this far. They claim that our president is an embarrassment in the eyes of the world. They can't say it now for they have committed the most embarrassing act by turning against their own country.
I liked the response by Iran posted in your link.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> We're thinking the same way. Someone should really go after them. Hillary? Liz?


Or Obama?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> If you don't know whether to laugh or cry, always laugh. From today's New Yorker:
> 
> *Iran Offers to Mediate Talks Between Republicans and Obama*
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Apparently, Iranians understand our system of government and international law better than our Senators. Iran's response to the recent treasonous letter signed by 47 of our idiots in Washington:
> 
> http://iranprimer.usip.org/blog/2015/mar/09/part-ii-iran-responds-gop-letter


An interesting quote from the iranian statement: "governments represent the entirety of their respective states".

Please note: obama is NOT our government! We do NOT operate under a dictatorship! Treaties MUST be ratified by the senate, for them to be binding.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> An interesting quote from the iranian statement: "governments represent the entirety of their respective states".
> 
> Please note: obama is NOT our government! We do NOT operate under a dictatorship! Treaties MUST be ratified by the senate, for them to be binding.


Do you deny that the President is the person who represents the US in dealings with other nations? That makes Obama "the government" as far as foreign countries are concerned.

I also think he knows, without your telling him, that a treaty with Iran should be ratified by Congress, but there are probably other ways to work out an agreement.

Was this a civics lesson for those of us who believe that Barack Obama is the duly elected President of the United States? Or is your message intended for the Iranian foreign minister (who probably isn't on KP)?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> If you don't know whether to laugh or cry, always laugh. From today's New Yorker:
> 
> *Iran Offers to Mediate Talks Between Republicans and Obama*
> 
> ...


How totally embarrassing for America.

And speaking of embarrassment, Australia and Indonesia are now in a very public tit for tat about the two Australians waiting to be executed there:

http://www.9news.com.au/World/2015/03/11/03/02/Jakarta-threatens-Canberra-with-human-tsunami

Bearing in mind Indonesia is negotiating madly with other countries to drop death sentences of their own citizens, this is unbelievable.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It is just that, D. Treasonous. They should be removed from office. I knew that some of these GOP senators were bat sh*t crazy, but I didn't think they would go this far. They claim that our president is an embarrassment in the eyes of the world. They can't say it now for they have committed the most embarrassing act by turning against their own country.
> I liked the response by Iran posted in your link.


I liked the response too. Well reasoned and pointedly educational. Hopefully those propagandists will get it.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you deny that the President is the person who represents the US in dealings with other nations? That makes Obama "the government" as far as foreign countries are concerned.
> 
> I also think he knows, without your telling him, that a treaty with Iran should be ratified by Congress, but there are probably other ways to work out an agreement.
> 
> Was this a civics lesson for those of us who believe that Barack Obama is the duly elected President of the United States? Or is your message intended for the Iranian foreign minister (who probably isn't on KP)?


The fact is that the congress (neither house) on its own cannot negotiate treaties with foreign powers. They might be called on to ratify one but they cannot do it on their own.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> An interesting quote from the iranian statement: "governments represent the entirety of their respective states".
> 
> Please note: obama is NOT our government! We do NOT operate under a dictatorship! Treaties MUST be ratified by the senate, for them to be binding.


So what's your country operating under KFN? A desperate opposition party who just sold their souls to the devil? This has got to be the most irresponsible action taken by a group of individuals who represent the people of your country. Treaty or no treaty.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I liked the response too. Well reasoned and pointedly educational. Hopefully those propagandists will get it.


You expect people who have trouble with words of more than 4 letters to understand something?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> You expect people who have trouble with words of more than 4 letters to understand something?


Well, there is that. Can it possibly get any worse?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The fact is that the congress (neither house) on its own cannot negotiate treaties with foreign powers. They might be called on to ratify one but they cannot do it on their own.


All they care about is that they can shoot down whatever treaties the president might want. At least that's all those 47 loons care about.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> All they care about is that they can shoot down whatever treaties the president might want. At least that's all those 47 loons care about.


That was for the people here who think that congress can bypass the president for something like this.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Sign a petition to charge the 47 idiot senators.

http://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you deny that the President is the person who represents the US in dealings with other nations? That makes Obama "the government" as far as foreign countries are concerned.
> 
> I also think he knows, without your telling him, that a treaty with Iran should be ratified by Congress, but there are probably other ways to work out an agreement.
> 
> Was this a civics lesson for those of us who believe that Barack Obama is the duly elected President of the United States? Or is your message intended for the Iranian foreign minister (who probably isn't on KP)?


The president may act as a representative in negotiations, but he cannot bind future presidents without legislative approval. That's the law of the land. No individual ever has been or will be, our government. ALL of us are entitled to representation!

It makes no difference what other countries think. In 1972, nixon promised the president of South Viet Nam, that we would defend them if the North Vietnamese did not uphold the Paris Peace Accords. In 1975, the North attacked the South. President ford wanted to keep the agreement that nixon had made but an overwhelmingly democratic vote in congress refused. So, there is precedent. Apparently, the dems think it's OK when they do it, but not when the reps do it.

It also makes no difference whether a treaty "should" be ratified. That's another argument. The law of the land requires that congress ratify all treaties. Those laws were written to protect us from one person acting as a dictator. You wouldn't like it if a republican president could decide anything he/she wanted. Too much power is dangerous.

I guess it was a civics lesson for those who believe obama is a king. We don't have kings in this country.

No one including congress can say whether obama is making a good deal or not, because he's doing it in secret. The congress and the American people have a right to know what the president is trying to bind us to, before he does so. So, before you decide he's doing the right thing, you should find out what he's doing. All of us should.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/03/09/the-senators-are-right-on-iran/


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

What would the republicans have done if the democrats had sent a letter to Saddam before the US invaded Iraq?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> Sign a petition to charge the 47 idiot senators.
> 
> http://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/file-charges-against-47-us-senators-violation-logan-act-attempting-undermine-nuclear-agreement/NKQnpJS9


Done. I'd personally love to see our Arizona senator McCain get the boot.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> The fact is that the congress (neither house) on its own cannot negotiate treaties with foreign powers. They might be called on to ratify one but they cannot do it on their own.


Agreed! No one can do it on their own. That's the point!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> So what's your country operating under KFN? A desperate opposition party who just sold their souls to the devil? This has got to be the most irresponsible action taken by a group of individuals who represent the people of your country. Treaty or no treaty.


Our country is a republic. We operate under a constitution. At least, we used to.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> All they care about is that they can shoot down whatever treaties the president might want. At least that's all those 47 loons care about.


That may be true, but BOTH parties are part of this pi$$ing contest. Until BOTH sides are ready to compromise, this is what we've got. I've got no horse in this race. I don't like any of them. I want our government to obey the constitution. If that means nothing gets done? So be it! We might be better off.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> That was for the people here who think that congress can bypass the president for something like this.


At the root of the problem, is obama trying to bypass congress. By design, neither party (president or congress) can act on their own. Maybe obama should negotiate with congress BEFORE he tries to negotiate with Iran.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> What would the republicans have done if the democrats had sent a letter to Saddam before the US invaded Iraq?


Congress was given the opportunity to vote on whether to attack iraq. They voted yes. If bush had conducted his dealings in secret an acted without congressional approval, you'd have a case. You and I both know that going to war in Iraq was wrong, but that's not the point. No president can act independently of congress. Things were set up that way for a reason.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Done. I'd personally love to see our Arizona senator McCain get the boot.


I'd like to see that as well. He's a sleazeball.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you deny that the President is the person who represents the US in dealings with other nations? That makes Obama "the government" as far as foreign countries are concerned.
> 
> I also think he knows, without your telling him, that a treaty with Iran should be ratified by Congress, but there are probably other ways to work out an agreement.
> 
> Was this a civics lesson for those of us who believe that Barack Obama is the duly elected President of the United States? Or is your message intended for the Iranian foreign minister (who probably isn't on KP)?


Who knows who is reading what on KP. It is very likely that security entities of many countries have programs to capture some key words or phrases that appear on Internet forums, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, ad nauseum, to see what is going on. This is the age of Big Brother, who is in a darkened room in front of a bunch of monitors seeing what is going on.

Meanwhile those ultimate idiots some of our fellow citizens who are also idiots elected are working very hard to destroy all that is good in our country. They have committed what? Anarchy, treason, sedition? They are lucky to live in America as it is now, as in many other countries they would have already disappeared never to be heard of again. Let us hope the elections of 2016 return majority rule to people who think before they blather and have some knowledge of history, international protocol, and some common sense. I hope that people don't disenfranchise themselves by choosing not to vote. Or worse, to vote against their best interests.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> What would the republicans have done if the democrats had sent a letter to Saddam before the US invaded Iraq?


Pulled a classic Rumplestiltskin.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

How many times has Presided Obama publicly said to the obstructionists "sit down with me and let's work something out" only to hear NO F---ING WAY one day and "he won't work with us" the next.

Or, better yet...hear Ted Cruz actually say "he expects us to compromise" in a tone that makes that sound equivalent to child rape.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> At the root of the problem, is obama trying to bypass congress. By design, neither party (president or congress) can act on their own. Maybe obama should negotiate with congress BEFORE he tries to negotiate with Iran.


The tone Congress is presenting is that whatever Mr. Obama does will be shot down. Congress is so antagonistic to the President that if he tried to negotiate with them it would be seen as a weakness and they would not give an inch. They seem so bent on undermining him that they even seem ready to destroy the country, undermine programs that benefit the poorest and weakest among us, and make us the laughing stock of the rest of the world in their efforts.

As much as the President has imperfections, Congress is not helping to move matters in a direction to benefit the US or all of us poor slobs who end up suffering as a result of their pi$$ing contest .


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to see that as well. He's a sleazeball.


In too many cases we get a choice between one political hack and another political hack running for office. It is rare to see a statesman/woman. It is rare to have an elected official we can say we were proud to have voted for. Sorry for the convoluted sentence.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> President ford wanted to keep the agreement that nixon had made but an overwhelmingly democratic vote in congress refused. So, there is precedent. Apparently, the dems think it's OK when they do it, but not when the reps do it.
> 
> /


No, there is no precedent.

In this situation no agreement is in place.

In this situation the members of congress sent a message DIRECTLY to Iran. There is NO PRECEDENT for such an outrageous act.

Sort of a follow-up to Boehner's egregious behavior in inviting Netanyahu to speak to congress. They are over the line and need to be censured.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> No, there is no precedent.
> 
> In this situation no agreement is in place.
> 
> ...


But censured by whom? It sure won't be this Congress. The only way to censure them is vote them out of office at the next opportunity.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The tone Congress is presenting is that whatever Mr. Obama does will be shot down. Congress is so antagonistic to the President that if he tried to negotiate with them it would be seen as a weakness and they would not give an inch. They seem so bent on undermining him that they even seem ready to destroy the country, undermine programs that benefit the poorest and weakest among us, and make us the laughing stock of the rest of the world in their efforts.
> 
> As much as the President has imperfections, Congress is not helping to move matters in a direction to benefit the US or all of us poor slobs who end up suffering as a result of their pi$$ing contest .


I'm sorry, but it makes no difference where any of us stand on the issues or how bad the congress is. The president must obey the laws of the land. If we allow him to act as he sees fit, his successors will do the same. Sooner or later, a republican president will do the same and everyone will say it's OK because obama did it. The laws have to apply to everyone.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> In too many cases we get a choice between one political hack and another political hack running for office. It is rare to see a statesman/woman. It is rare to have an elected official we can say we were proud to have voted for. Sorry for the convoluted sentence.


I agree! It's getting harder and harder to vote. It seems we're always given the choice between the lesser of two evils. I don't have the stomach for it, anymore.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

How do y'all feel about the actual content of the message?

Since this directly involves Israel, I cannot be objective.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but it makes no difference where any of us stand on the issues or how bad the congress is. The president must obey the laws of the land. If we allow him to act as he sees fit, his successors will do the same. Sooner or later, a republican president will do the same and everyone will say it's OK because obama did it. The laws have to apply to everyone.


They also have to apply to members of the Legislative branch.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> No, there is no precedent.
> 
> In this situation no agreement is in place.
> 
> ...


We don't really know if an agreement is in place or not, because the president is acting in secret. I agree that this was an outrageous act. But obama acts as if the decisions are his. They are not. Just as obama can veto bills put forth by congress, congress can null any agreement that obama makes. He has no legal alternative to trying to work with congress. That can only mean compromise.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> But censured by whom? It sure won't be this Congress. The only way to censure them is vote them out of office at the next opportunity.


Agreed! I'm game.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but it makes no difference where any of us stand on the issues or how bad the congress is. The president must obey the laws of the land. If we allow him to act as he sees fit, his successors will do the same. Sooner or later, a republican president will do the same and everyone will say it's OK because obama did it. The laws have to apply to everyone.


That has already taken place...remember Bush? Remember the lies told to get us into war? Bush broke the law...INTERNATIONAL law to which this country is signatory. And that is what these 47 re thugs have also done. Bush just committed war crimes...these people have committed straight out treason as defined by our own laws. But you are ok with that...as long as a black democrat holds the Oval Office.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We don't really know if an agreement is in place or not, because the president is acting in secret. I agree that this was an outrageous act. But obama acts as if the decisions are his. They are not. Just as obama can veto bills put forth by congress, congress can null any agreement that obama makes. He has no legal alternative to trying to work with congress. That can only mean compromise.


Which the republicans have said they don't believe in.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> How do y'all feel about the actual content of the message?
> 
> Since this directly involves Israel, I cannot be objective.


I'd not read it before because I was disgusted by the whole thing. But I read it so that I could respond to you. To me, the content was a straight up pi$$ing contest. Congress is telling both Iran and obama that there will be no deal without their involvement. Whether this is saying anything about Israel or is just a power play, I don't know. As sordid as the whole thing is, they are correct. If obama refuses to work with congress, his agreement is worth the paper it's written on.

The republicans will back Israel, for many reasons, some good, some bad. IMO, if the president were negotiating something else with someone else, the repubs probably would have done the same thing. They're fed up with obama acting on his own. They won a majority in the house and senate and obama is trying to make them irrelevant.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> They also have to apply to members of the Legislative branch.


Exactly!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> That has already taken place...remember Bush? Remember the lies told to get us into war? Bush broke the law...INTERNATIONAL law to which this country is signatory. And that is what these 47 re thugs have also done. Bush just committed war crimes...these people have committed straight out treason as defined by our own laws. But you are ok with that...as long as a black democrat holds the Oval Office.


You and I both know they were lies! But there has never been a legal determination as such. No dems have stepped up to the plate, to make that challenge. Until then, the official story is that they "thought" there were wmds. bush and his cronies belong in jail! I'd like to see it!

What international law have these people violated? And on what legal grounds is it treason? It's not treason just because you think it is.

I'm not OK with any of this. And I don't care if the president is white, black, purple, orange or green! He MUST follow the law of the land! He doesn't receive special consideration because he's black.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Which the republicans have said they don't believe in.


There has been NO compromise on either side. None! Remember...obama said he has a pen and a phone.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The fact is that the congress (neither house) on its own cannot negotiate treaties with foreign powers. They might be called on to ratify one but they cannot do it on their own.


You are correct, Judy. It is all in the Logan Act, which they went against twice already. The penalty for going against that act is at least 3 years in prison. 
It angers me that any progress that they may have made could all be useless now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There has been NO compromise on either side. None! Remember...obama said he has a pen and a phone.


If you were elected to the presidency and had a republican Congress that nationally announced that they would make you a one term president, and vowed to oppose any thing that you wanted to do for the country.
Would you not use that pen and phone?
He was elected twice to lead this country, and has faced nothing but opposition and bullshtein from the Republican Congress. He does have the right to use executive orders and also to veto any bills presented by Congress, which has not been much. Most are to repeal the ACA and now his immigration plan.
They overstepped their boundaries by inviting Netanyahu here and now this embarrassing letter to Iran. I am embarrassed by their actions.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> What would the republicans have done if the democrats had sent a letter to Saddam before the US invaded Iraq?


Excellent question. I would love to read the answer/


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> That has already taken place...remember Bush? Remember the lies told to get us into war? Bush broke the law...INTERNATIONAL law to which this country is signatory. And that is what these 47 re thugs have also done. Bush just committed war crimes...these people have committed straight out treason as defined by our own laws. But you are ok with that...as long as a black democrat holds the Oval Office.


 :thumbup:


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd not read it before because I was disgusted by the whole thing. But I read it so that I could respond to you. To me, the content was a straight up pi$$ing contest. Congress is telling both Iran and obama that there will be no deal without their involvement. Whether this is saying anything about Israel or is just a power play, I don't know. As sordid as the whole thing is, they are correct. If obama refuses to work with congress, his agreement is worth the paper it's written on.
> 
> The republicans will back Israel, for many reasons, some good, some bad. IMO, if the president were negotiating something else with someone else, the repubs probably would have done the same thing. They're fed up with obama acting on his own. They won a majority in the house and senate and obama is trying to make them irrelevant.


ly

I believe you are wrong. You see, he is the president and has the power to veto when necessary. When it comes to peace talks, I can't remember any president sending daily updates to the nation on what was being discussed. They might have the majority in both houses, but that'sa all they have. We elected a president to lead us. Not the Congress to lead us

Just why do you think that POTUS is acting alone? Of course he has support of his party. This congress as well as the last one has the lowest ratings by Americans in all of American History. They are a disgrace.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are correct, Judy. It is all in the Logan Act, which they went against twice already. The penalty for going against that act is at least 3 years in prison.
> It angers me that any progress that they may have made could all be useless now.


OK, I'd not been familiar with the Logan Act, nor had I heard of it. I just read a little and you guys are right about that, at least. I'm going to do some more reading. Catch up with you later.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


Cindy, I never knew that. Sending hugs your way!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


Heartbreaking. I understand your post.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


Oh Cindy -- I am so sorry! I have lost a son but not through war, which in many ways in the situation with Bush and Cheney makes it much worse. I doubt I would ever be able to forgive either of them. I doubt they will ever have to answer- The republicans think they can do anything, legal or not. They are taking the chance of hurting the United states beyond repair. Scary and so sad. My heart is with you.

It is so hard to lose a son like I did with Cancer, but to lose him because your President went to war for a lie, is unforgiveable.

What a mess there is in the world. It gets worse and worse and the Repubs, are pushing harder and harder and to heck with the law. Every time they get away with these acts makes it easier for them to think they can do more and more against the law. Who will stop them. They are arrogant and even though I am not an American It is appalling. Sooo sad for our troops, families and US citizens. My thoughts are with you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


I'm so sorry, Cindy. For what it's worth, I agree with you.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but it makes no difference where any of us stand on the issues or how bad the congress is. The president must obey the laws of the land. If we allow him to act as he sees fit, his successors will do the same. Sooner or later, a republican president will do the same and everyone will say it's OK because obama did it. The laws have to apply to everyone.


Refresh my memory, please. Exactly what has Obama done that violates the law? Are we to assume you approve what the Gang of 47 did? Obama has not made any agreement, has not presented anything for the "advice and consent" of congress. The talks are stalled at this point.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We don't really know if an agreement is in place or not, because the president is acting in secret.


Negotiations such as those are always in secret. There is no agreement - yet. Now there may never be one, though Iran seems to understand what kind of thugs the 47 are.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I wonder what you gain by constantly denigrating the President on this thread. Your politics fit the Republican opinions a lot more than those of us here. 

It almost seems as if you are happy that you now think you can carry on and on about Obama, but you seem not too worried about the actions of the Republicans which cause great harm to your country. You imply you don't like what they are doing but all your posts seem to be about the President. Do you actually think that Boehner and the 47 are doing good things for the United States? I cant agree with you at all. They are deliberately undermining your Country.

To me your opinion about the President is written in stone. Nothing he can ever do will receive one word of agreement from you- you imply that everything that happens is his fault. One person, even the President can not possibly do as much harm as you accuse him of. You give him NO credit for anything and your posts are like the narrow rigid posts on the other thread. Are you trying to convince us still, you have not found agreement with 95% of what you say about him here. You never print anything in his favor, ever. You don't seem to be concerned about Boehner's actions nor the actions of the 47 who acted against the best interest of America - there seems to be no worry about any of that, as your aim is always Obama.- and I am afraid it will change the face of the US forever as well as affect the opinions of most people who have always said you were the greatest country in the world.

Do you not think that if the Republicans gave even the smallest bit of cooperation with him from the beginning he might have been able to accomplish more?


Sad indeed.

I worry about what is going to happen.

I wonder where America will be when the next election occurs. It is frightening that they feel that can work against their President on every single front.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It almost seems as if you are happy that you now think you can carry on and on about Obama, but you seem not too worried about the actions of the Republicans which cause great harm to your country. You imply you don't like what they are doing but all your posts seem to be about the President. Do you actually think that Boehner and the 47 are doing good things for the United States? I cant agree with you at all. They are deliberately undermining your Country. I worry about what is going to happen.


So do I, Shirley.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

way


BrattyPatty said:


> So do I, Shirley.


I have talked to my friends up here, and they don't follow just the liberal outlook, but many are horrified with what is happening down there- The narrow, racist, nasty feeling and the lack of any feeling for responsibility for what is happening. Tney really would rather drive him into the ground than in any help him do his job. It could have been something that would have solved your problems if they had ever given him a chance. Now the damage appears to be irreversible. People up here are concerned and worried, as everything that happens politically there affects us up here.

sad indeed that personal agenda's and money , are causing irriparable damage there, (my opinion, and many other opinions too). Some are Conservative and I have only met one or two Canadians who are just as rabid as in the States. Some don't like the democrats, but that has been the case for years. I just pray that the hate and dislike never happens here between the left and the right. However there are people up here who agree with everything that the Repubs are doing but from what I can gather that the majority hope it doesn't happen here and they think it has gone way too far.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Bush and his lies to Congress and to the citizens of this country is a very personal issue to me. My oldest son was career military and followed the orders of his superiors. He died in Iraq and Bush might as well have planted the bomb that blew up my son's tank. I hold Bush and Cheney directly responsible for Eric's death. End of this discussion for me. You all have a nice evening.


Very sorry for your loss. Yes, Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld ARE responsible!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Negotiations such as those are always in secret. There is no agreement - yet. Now there may never be one, though Iran seems to understand what kind of thugs the 47 are.


I need to do some research on this: we're calling it an "agreement" and not a "treaty." Is the difference just that a treaty needs ratification?
It seems that Wikipedia uses the terms interchangeably. Need a better source.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

(1) Agreements Pursuant to Treaty

The President may conclude an international agreement pursuant to a treaty brought into force with the advice and consent of the Senate, the provisions of which constitute authorization for the agreement by the Executive without subsequent action by the Congress;

(2) Agreements Pursuant to Legislation

The President may conclude an international agreement on the basis of existing legislation or subject to legislation to be enacted by the Congress; and

(3) Agreements Pursuant to the Constitutional Authority of the President

The President may conclude an international agreement on any subject within his constitutional authority so long as the agreement is not inconsistent with legislation enacted by the Congress in the exercise of its constitutional authority. The constitutional sources of authority for the President to conclude international agreements include:

(a) The President's authority as Chief Executive to represent the nation in foreign affairs;

(b) The President's authority to receive ambassadors and other public ministers;

(c) The President's authority as "Commander-in-Chief"; and

(d) The President's authority to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed."
Essentially, the President can enter an executive agreement without the "consent and advice" of two thirds of the senate if a previous treaty or legislation gives him the power to do so, or if he is doing so according to another constitutional duty.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Move On.org had this to say about the 47:

_As Vox.com puts it, "The mere act of senators contacting the leaders of a foreign nation to undermine and contradict their own president is an enormous breach of protocol. But this went much further: Republicans are telling Iran, and, by extension the world, that the American president no longer has the power to conduct foreign policy, and that foreign leaders should assume Congress could revoke American pledges at any moment."_

I believe this is an important consideration. If congress will trample the President's authority, what does that mean for our relations with the rest of the world? Those senators essentially said they will scuttle anything they want, anytime they want. Can the US diplomatic efforts be trusted in the future? Or do we fall into the category of those who can't be trusted to keep agreements - as many have accused Iran of doing? A pretty picuture, eh? The US is no better than Iran.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Move On.org had this to say about the 47:
> 
> _As Vox.com puts it, "The mere act of senators contacting the leaders of a foreign nation to undermine and contradict their own president is an enormous breach of protocol. But this went much further: Republicans are telling Iran, and, by extension the world, that the American president no longer has the power to conduct foreign policy, and that foreign leaders should assume Congress could revoke American pledges at any moment."_
> 
> I believe this is an important consideration. If congress will trample the President's authority, what does that mean for our relations with the rest of the world? Those senators essentially said they will scuttle anything they want, anytime they want. Can the US diplomatic efforts be trusted in the future? Or do we fall into the caegory of those who can't be trusted to keep agreements - as many have accused Iran of doing? A pretty picuture, eh? The US is no better than Iran.


Yes exactly. They are all rotters.

Aren't you sorry that the Dems did not give Bush the same treatment? Maybe things would have been different today.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Yes exactly. They are all rotters.
> 
> Aren't you sorry that the Dems did not give Bush the same treatment? Maybe things would have been different today.


Dems just don't have it in them to behave that way. We actually believe in our form of government and behave that way. Most of the time.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Dems just don't have it in them to behave that way. We actually believe in our form of government and behave that way. Most of the time.


Yes, I am glad we have the good sense not to tear apart our own government. These idiots on the right are traitors to the country and should be treated as such. Nothing good will come of such actions and it is frightening to see how ignorant these people are who the GOP sent to Washington. They don't even understand what the various branches of government are supposed to do or in this case, not do. They have made themselves the laughing stock of the world and in doing so may have seriously harmed the country as well. Apparently, ignorance is bliss on the right.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The president may act as a representative in negotiations, but he cannot bind future presidents without legislative approval. That's the law of the land. No individual ever has been or will be, our government. ALL of us are entitled to representation!
> 
> It makes no difference what other countries think. In 1972, nixon promised the president of South Viet Nam, that we would defend them if the North Vietnamese did not uphold the Paris Peace Accords. In 1975, the North attacked the South. President ford wanted to keep the agreement that nixon had made but an overwhelmingly democratic vote in congress refused. So, there is precedent. Apparently, the dems think it's OK when they do it, but not when the reps do it.
> 
> ...


THUS FAR THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT MADE A DEAL!

And thank you for telling me that we don't have kings in this country. We are _supposed_ to have a President, and we in fact elected one TWICE, yet conservatives have been making it impossible for him to preside. So how you can call him a king or a dictator is beyond me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> What would the republicans have done if the democrats had sent a letter to Saddam before the US invaded Iraq?


But that wouldn't have happened because the Democrats are patriots, unlike the Repubs.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Move On.org had this to say about the 47:
> 
> _As Vox.com puts it, "The mere act of senators contacting the leaders of a foreign nation to undermine and contradict their own president is an enormous breach of protocol. But this went much further: Republicans are telling Iran, and, by extension the world, that the American president no longer has the power to conduct foreign policy, and that foreign leaders should assume Congress could revoke American pledges at any moment."_
> 
> I believe this is an important consideration. If congress will trample the President's authority, what does that mean for our relations with the rest of the world? Those senators essentially said they will scuttle anything they want, anytime they want. Can the US diplomatic efforts be trusted in the future? Or do we fall into the category of those who can't be trusted to keep agreements - as many have accused Iran of doing? A pretty picuture, eh? The US is no better than Iran.


I have to wonder what they really thought about what repercussions would be from this. Did they think they would be seen as heroes? It came back to bite them in the arse very quickly. 
You are correct, D .They did more harm than good in the eyes of other nations not to mention our own. 
I liked Hillary's response to a question regarding this.

[quote Hillary Clinton]
"And one has to ask, what was the purpose of this letter?" she said. "There appear to be two logical answers. Either these senators were trying to be helpful to the Iranians or harmful to the commander- in-chief in the midst of high-stakes international diplomacy. Either answer does discredit to the letters' signatories."

Clinton said the administration's goal in pursing the negotiations "is a diplomatic solution that would close off Iran's pathways to a nuclear bomb and give us unprecedented access and insight into Iran's nuclear program."

"Now, reasonable people can disagree about what exactly it will take to accomplish this objective, and we all must judge any final agreement on its merits," she said.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Agreed! No one can do it on their own. That's the point!


What point? No one has done it on their own.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Our country is a republic. We operate under a constitution. At least, we used to.


Until the conservatives in Congress decided they didn't have to pay attention to it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That may be true, but BOTH parties are part of this pi$$ing contest. Until BOTH sides are ready to compromise, this is what we've got. I've got no horse in this race. I don't like any of them. I want our government to obey the constitution. If that means nothing gets done? So be it! We might be better off.


You somehow have convinced yourself that there's no difference between the parties, but I happen to disagree. Democrats have always compromised; Repubs seem to think they're the only game in town.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/03/09/republicans-are-beginning-to-act-as-though-barack-obama-isnt-even-the-president/

The article ends like this:

"I wonder what theyd say if you asked them whether it would be acceptable for Democrats to treat the next Republican president that way. My guess is that the question wouldnt even make sense to them. After all, that person would be a Republican. So how could anyone even think of such a thing?"


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> At the root of the problem, is obama trying to bypass congress. By design, neither party (president or congress) can act on their own. Maybe obama should negotiate with congress BEFORE he tries to negotiate with Iran.


This is a joke, right? For his first few *years* in office, he tried. All they did was spit in his eye.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Congress was given the opportunity to vote on whether to attack iraq. They voted yes. If bush had conducted his dealings in secret an acted without congressional approval, you'd have a case. You and I both know that going to war in Iraq was wrong, but that's not the point. No president can act independently of congress. Things were set up that way for a reason.


What's the difference between negotiating in secret so Congress doesn't know what's going on (not that I think Obama is doing this) and telling huge lies so Congress doesn't know what's going on (which was how Bush got his congressional approval)?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You somehow have convinced yourself that there's no difference between the parties, but I happen to disagree. Democrats have always compromised; Repubs seem to think they're the only game in town.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/03/09/republicans-are-beginning-to-act-as-though-barack-obama-isnt-even-the-president/
> 
> ...


Something is telling me that it isn't only democrats who are angered by the actions of the 47. With that being said, we may not see a Republican president for some time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Who knows who is reading what on KP. It is very likely that security entities of many countries have programs to capture some key words or phrases that appear on Internet forums, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, ad nauseum, to see what is going on. This is the age of Big Brother, who is in a darkened room in front of a bunch of monitors seeing what is going on.
> 
> Meanwhile those ultimate idiots some of our fellow citizens who are also idiots elected are working very hard to destroy all that is good in our country. They have committed what? Anarchy, treason, sedition? They are lucky to live in America as it is now, as in many other countries they would have already disappeared never to be heard of again. Let us hope the elections of 2016 return majority rule to people who think before they blather and have some knowledge of history, international protocol, and some common sense. I hope that people don't disenfranchise themselves by choosing not to vote. Or worse, to vote against their best interests.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Pulled a classic Rumplestiltskin.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> No, there is no precedent.
> 
> In this situation no agreement is in place.
> 
> ...


Or at least spanked. No, they'd enjoy that. We could ground them for a month.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Or at least spanked. No, they'd enjoy that. We could ground them for a month.


Get out the whip girl, Purl!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but it makes no difference where any of us stand on the issues or how bad the congress is. The president must obey the laws of the land. If we allow him to act as he sees fit, his successors will do the same. Sooner or later, a republican president will do the same and everyone will say it's OK because obama did it. The laws have to apply to everyone.


At the risk of getting laryngitis from all my shouting, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. HE IS STILL WITHIN THE LAW. At least wait until he's sinned before dispatching him to Hell.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Until the conservatives in Congress decided they didn't have to pay attention to it.


Pay attention to it? Seems that the original author of the letter, Tom Cotton, does not understand it! It took an Irani to explain it to him.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> At the risk of getting laryngitis from all my shouting, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. HE IS STILL WITHIN THE LAW. At least wait until he's sinned before dispatching him to Hell.


Sounds like the way KFN thinks the President is a classic case damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> At the risk of getting laryngitis from all my shouting, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. HE IS STILL WITHIN THE LAW. At least wait until he's sinned before dispatching him to Hell.


I don't get it sometimes, Purl. Well, I do get it, but it baffles me how some call him a dictator, king etc. He IS well within the law.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> At the risk of getting laryngitis from all my shouting, HE HASN'T DONE ANYTHING YET. HE IS STILL WITHIN THE LAW. At least wait until he's sinned before dispatching him to Hell.


In the midst of moving furniture back into the family room, I had to log back in just to congratulate all of you wonderful people who are on the right side!!!
Carry on!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Sounds like the way KFN thinks the President is a classic case damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.


It seems that all Republicans think like that, Cindy. I wonder years from now how these Repugs in Congress will explain to their grandkids as to why they are the worst Congress in American History. That will be their only legacy along with being labeled traitor.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> In the midst of moving furniture back into the family room, I had to log back in just to congratulate all of you wonderful people who are on the right side!!!
> Carry on!


I would offer to help you, cookie, but my back is killing me. I lifted Brynn last week and my body told me that I am too old to do that anymore.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Something is telling me that it isn't only democrats who are angered by the actions of the 47. With that being said, we may not see a Republican president for some time.


we hope!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> we hope!


I think the voters are tired of all the witch hunts, obstruction, and lately, the foolish antics of 47 senators dabbling in foreign affairs and failing miserably.
DGreen hit the nail on the head. We will lose the trust of other countries over this. They are blocking any potential progress that the US can make.
The citizens are tired of them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> In the midst of moving furniture back into the family room, I had to log back in just to congratulate all of you wonderful people who are on the right side!!!
> Carry on!


Best friends together!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> In the midst of moving furniture back into the family room, I had to log back in just to congratulate all of you wonderful people who are on the right side!!!
> Carry on!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


>


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Something is telling me that it isn't only democrats who are angered by the actions of the 47. With that being said, we may not see a Republican president for some time.


We can but hope.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Get out the whip girl, Purl!


You mean her, Patty? I'm afraid those guys would like her.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Sounds like the way KFN thinks the President is a classic case damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.


You may be right. No, you're left; she's right, and she's wrong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Speaking of witch hunts, did anyone watch Hillary's speech at the UN building today?

Afterward she addressed the email witch hunt. At the time she was Sec of State it was okay to use your personal email as long as the gov had access to her emails pertaining to her job.
Did she not already hand over 55,000 pages of emails to Issa and his committee of harassers? Do they want the same ones again? Was something wrong with the first batch of the same emails they are asking for again? Now on top of that they want her server and personal emails. Hell NO!! That's going to far and is impeding on her constitutional rights.

The Repugs are very restless. They know she can win the next presidential election and are doing everything they can to discredit her. Bringing up Monica Lewinsky and the dress the slob never had cleaned is supposed to hurt her chances? She didn't have sex with Monica, but they will hang on to that and keep bringing it up as if it actually means something.
The funny thing is that she has not announced whether or not she will run. If she does decide to run, we can expect to hear the Benghazi stuff until election day of 2016 even though she was cleared of any wrong doing.
I think right now that the Ethics Committee should individually bring forth these 47 traitors and prosecute every one of them for treason. Now that is something that Americans would think worth the time and effort as opposed to harassing Mrs Clinton.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It seems that all Republicans think like that, Cindy. I wonder years from now how these Repugs in Congress will explain to their grandkids as to why they are the worst Congress in American History. That will be their only legacy along with being labeled traitor.


The explanations will be quite simple and probably like ones they heard from their grandfathers - The N*&&^% did not belong in the WHITE house and we saw to it that he did not ruin this country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You mean her, Patty? I'm afraid those guys would like her.


They would cry out "Spank me mama, oh please!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I would offer to help you, cookie, but my back is killing me. I lifted Brynn last week and my body told me that I am too old to do that anymore.


How old is Brynn? 21? Come on - you are still tough Brat.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> The explanations will be quite simple and probably like ones they heard from their grandfathers - The N*&&^% did not belong in the WHITE house and we saw to it that he did not ruin this country.


Instead they chose to ruin it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> How old is Brynn? 21? Come on - you are still tough Brat.


She is 2 1/2. But I am a petite person with fibromyalgia. She is not a chub, but she is tall for her age. Oh, and when I am with her, I am far from tough.
I am a sucker for the bottom lip. She owns me completely.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is 2 1/2. But I am a petite person with fibromyalgia. She is not a chub, but she is tall for her age. Oh, and when I am with her, I am far from tough.
> I am a sucker for the bottom lip. She owns me completely.


She is absolutely beautiful- that hair is gorgeous! How lucky she has you for a 'Nana' - How lucky you have her!!!!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> She is absolutely beautiful- that hair is gorgeous! How lucky she has you for a 'Nana' - How lucky you have her!!!!!


Yes, I am lucky, Shirley. She is like a burst of sunshine coming through the door every morning. :-D


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is 2 1/2. But I am a petite person with fibromyalgia. She is not a chub, but she is tall for her age. Oh, and when I am with her, I am far from tough.
> I am a sucker for the bottom lip. She owns me completely.


Ha Ha. That is exactly how I picture you. Did you have that same color hair? So Irish looking and totally adorable. Lucky lucky Brat.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. That is exactly how I picture you. Did you have that same color hair? So Irish looking and totally adorable. Lucky lucky Brat.


Yes, she got her red hair from me. Mine has a touch more auburn. 
It seems that the red hair runs every other generation in my family.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Corker, Menendez, Graham and Kaine were working on a bipartisan bill called the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act, that would allow 60 days of congressional review for any deal that comes out of the negotiations. They would approve, disapprove or take no action. It was close to having a filibuster proof level of support. Of course the republicans would never have approved it regardless if it was bipartisan, because it is all political. 
The turtle moved to place the bill on next weeks calendar for a vote, s vote that would be taken while negotiations were still in progress. 

We think the timing is important," McConnell said Tuesday. "We think it will help prevent the administration from entering into a bad deal, but if they do, then it will provide an opportunity for Congress to weigh in. 

The democrats have been pulling out of the bill because of the early vote which they said McConnell's move represented an effort to influence or derail the negotiations now underway rather than a bona fide desire to review whatever deal is reached, and Obama said he would veto it. Cotton said it was his desire to sabotage the negotiations, so this bipartisan bill is something they were trying in order to get democrats to join them. They had no intention of ever putting it on the floor for a vote, because if it passed, Obama has said he would veto it. All this does is prove the republicans are out for political gain, nothing more. All they are doing is playing games and trying to out smart Obama.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Move On.org had this to say about the 47:
> 
> _As Vox.com puts it, "The mere act of senators contacting the leaders of a foreign nation to undermine and contradict their own president is an enormous breach of protocol. But this went much further: Republicans are telling Iran, and, by extension the world, that the American president no longer has the power to conduct foreign policy, and that foreign leaders should assume Congress could revoke American pledges at any moment."_
> 
> I believe this is an important consideration. If congress will trample the President's authority, what does that mean for our relations with the rest of the world? Those senators essentially said they will scuttle anything they want, anytime they want. Can the US diplomatic efforts be trusted in the future? Or do we fall into the category of those who can't be trusted to keep agreements - as many have accused Iran of doing? A pretty picuture, eh? The US is no better than Iran.


The USA is not better than Iran in the opinions of these GOP Crackheads. Their little jug-eared leader has more dangerous opinions. See his website for a shiver.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Hillary.



BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder what they really thought about what repercussions would be from this. Did they think they would be seen as heroes? It came back to bite them in the arse very quickly.
> You are correct, D .They did more harm than good in the eyes of other nations not to mention our own.
> I liked Hillary's response to a question regarding this.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Get out the whip girl, Purl!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Lash LaRue


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Pay attention to it? Seems that the original author of the letter, Tom Cotton, does not understand it! It took an Irani to explain it to him.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My back hurts too and all I did was wash silk flowers. Go figure.



BrattyPatty said:


> I would offer to help you, cookie, but my back is killing me. I lifted Brynn last week and my body told me that I am too old to do that anymore.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You may be right. No, you're left; she's right, and she's wrong.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If they find themselves dealing with Hillary Clinton as President of the USA, I have a feeling they may miss President Obama's patience and fortitude.



BrattyPatty said:


> Speaking of witch hunts, did anyone watch Hillary's speech at the UN building today?
> 
> Afterward she addressed the email witch hunt. At the time she was Sec of State it was okay to use your personal email as long as the gov had access to her emails pertaining to her job.
> Did she not already hand over 55,000 pages of emails to Issa and his committee of harassers? Do they want the same ones again? Was something wrong with the first batch of the same emails they are asking for again? Now on top of that they want her server and personal emails. Hell NO!! That's going to far and is impeding on her constitutional rights.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> They would cry out "Spank me mama, oh please!!!


Not for long. It's no game here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How could you resist? Why would you try? Go Grannie Go.



BrattyPatty said:


> She is 2 1/2. But I am a petite person with fibromyalgia. She is not a chub, but she is tall for her age. Oh, and when I am with her, I am far from tough.
> I am a sucker for the bottom lip. She owns me completely.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not for long. It's no game here.


Not to mention that they'd probably end up with a 50 year old, 300 lb. dominatrix whose punishment for them would be to sit on them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Out smart President Obama? They can't out smart the gum machine.



NJG said:


> Corker, Menendez, Graham and Kaine were working on a bipartisan bill called the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act, that would allow 60 days of congressional review for any deal that comes out of the negotiations. They would approve, disapprove or take no action. It was close to having a filibuster proof level of support. Of course the republicans would never have approved it regardless if it was bipartisan, because it is all political.
> The turtle moved to place the bill on next weeks calendar for a vote, s vote that would be taken while negotiations were still in progress.
> 
> We think the timing is important," McConnell said Tuesday. "We think it will help prevent the administration from entering into a bad deal, but if they do, then it will provide an opportunity for Congress to weigh in.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One can only hope.



jbandsma said:


> Not to mention that they'd probably end up with a 50 year old, 300 lb. dominatrix whose punishment for them would be to sit on them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: Lash LaRue


Good name for her. (Yes, I know who the original was.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Not to mention that they'd probably end up with a 50 year old, 300 lb. dominatrix whose punishment for them would be to sit on them.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Congress was given the opportunity to vote on whether to attack iraq. They voted yes. If bush had conducted his dealings in secret an acted without congressional approval, you'd have a case. You and I both know that going to war in Iraq was wrong, but that's not the point. No president can act independently of congress. Things were set up that way for a reason.


My opinion is that anything with Iran (and the other 5 countries involved) is an Agreement, not a treaty. Apples and oranges. ONLY the president can negotiate with heads of state and/ or their representatives. This is not a treaty. Get over it. They are a bunch of treasonous bigots. The Logan Act should be followed, with monetary fines implemented and up to three years in jail. A fantastic way to get rid of 47 bone heads.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, I am lucky, Shirley. She is like a burst of sunshine coming through the door every morning. :-D


I know exactly what you mean. Our GD who is ll spent yesterday with us and what a joy she is. She is in grade 5 and had a fantastic report card. ALL the subjects were above average. She won an award for a poem and a story. 6 out of 350 students were picked to spend the day with some well known authors. She is quiet but not shy- We make sure there is some craft or work here she can do in the way of crafts, and we have a ball together. She plays checkers, sorry etc. with Pat and then she and I do knitting and we have something here for her to do (I am also teaching her crochet etc.) What a joy. We are an important part of her life and I know your little one will always be the same with you. Lucky us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MindyT said:


> My opinion is that anything with Iran (and the other 5 countries involved) is an Agreement, not a treaty. Apples and oranges. ONLY the president can negotiate with heads of state and/ or their representatives. This is not a treaty. Get over it. They are a bunch of treasonous bigots. The Logan Act should be followed, with monetary fines implemented and up to three years in jail. A fantastic way to get rid of 47 bone heads.


Oh please let it be so.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Grandchildren, actually any children, are the best reward for both sides.



Designer1234 said:


> I know exactly what you mean. Our GD who is ll spent yesterday with us and what a joy she is. She is in grade 5 and had a fantastic report card. ALL the subjects were above average. She won an award for a poem and a story. 6 out of 350 students were picked to spend the day with some well known authors. She is quiet but not shy- We make sure there is some craft or work here she can do in the way of crafts, and we have a ball together. She plays checkers, sorry etc. with Pat and then she and I do knitting and we have something here for her to do (I am also teaching her crochet etc.) What a joy. We are an important part of her life and I know your little one will always be the same with you. Lucky us.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

President Obama will be on Jimmy Kimmel Thursday night.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You and I both know they were lies! But there has never been a legal determination as such. No dems have stepped up to the plate, to make that challenge. Until then, the official story is that they "thought" there were wmds. bush and his cronies belong in jail! I'd like to see it!
> 
> What international law have these people violated? And on what legal grounds is it treason? It's not treason just because you think it is.
> 
> I'm not OK with any of this. And I don't care if the president is white, black, purple, orange or green! He MUST follow the law of the land! He doesn't receive special consideration because he's black.


It has been obvious for a long time that you are not a racist and that your issues with the President are based on political issues. You have certain convictions and the integrity to stand behind them and not waffle.

But it is just as obvious that many others who are adamantly antagonistic to this President are racist and would not take the stands they do if the incumbent were a Caucasian Southern or Midwestern Methodist or Presbyterian. We will see the same sort of demonizing when the first woman President is in power and when the first Jewish President is in power and when the first Muslim President is in power and when the first President descended from Chinese or Japanese or Korean or Vietnamese immigrants is in power. As long as there are "********" we will have antagonism toward any President whose roots deviate from wherever their ancestors came from. They forget they descend from people who fled here from oppression, people such as Scots Highlanders fleeing the British and Irish people escaping starvation during the potato famine.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

I want to thank all of you for your kind words about the loss of my son. He was a marvelous young man, completely dedicated to the country and to his job. We miss him every day. Cindy


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

This whole Hillary Clinton email debacle is such a waste of time and tax payers money. Can you guess who is behind the witch hunt? If you guessed Citizens United you are correct. The AP is using the FOIA to gain all of her emails both business and personal. 

If personal emails can be obtained from Hillary, then what is to stop them from going after anybody and everybody's? Let's go after John Boehner's and Mitch McConnell's personal emails while we are at it. Why stop there? Hell let's file a law suit against every Republican in Congress for their personal emails. That would go over like a fart in church.
If they want gov documents pertaining to State Dept business, I can see their point. Trey Gowdy said today, "Who is she to determine which were personal and which were official state dept business?" And the fun begins! They get amazingly dumber as time goes on. 
They (Republicans) really are afraid that they will lose to her. And they have every reason to be.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This whole Hillary Clinton email debacle is such a waste of time and tax payers money. Can you guess who is behind the witch hunt? If you guessed Citizens United you are correct.
> If personal emails can be obtained from Hillary, then what is to stop them from going after anybody and everybody's?
> If they want gov documents pertaining to State Dept business, I can see their point. Trey Gowdy said today, "Who is she to determine which were personal and which were official state dept business?" And the fun begins! They get amazingly dumber as time goes on.
> They (Republicans) really are afraid that they will lose to her. And they have every reason to be.


Yeah, does she think she's part of the official government or something? Does she have enough intelligence to know which is business and what actually constitutes personal?

Give me a break.

Oh gee...I think "can you pick up milk, tofu and bread on your way home" counts as official state department business only if the person it was sent to happens to be in another country at the time.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> It has been obvious for a long time that you are not a racist and that your issues with the President are based on political issues. You have certain convictions and the integrity to stand behind them and not waffle.
> 
> But it is just as obvious that many others who are adamantly antagonistic to this President are racist and would not take the stands they do if the incumbent were a Caucasian Southern or Midwestern Methodist or Presbyterian. We will see the same sort of demonizing when the first woman President is in power and when the first Jewish President is in power and when the first Muslim President is in power and when the first President descended from Chinese or Japanese or Korean or Vietnamese immigrants is in power. As long as there are "********" we will have antagonism toward any President whose roots deviate from wherever their ancestors came from. They forget they descend from people who fled here from oppression, people such as Scots Highlanders fleeing the British and Irish people escaping starvation during the potato famine.


I agree completely,. Neb is definitely not a racist in my opinion. I don't agree with her in many cases about her political beliefs but I know she is sincere in what she says.

I agree with the above post, but I think a Black man would be less welcome than just about any of the different races you have mentioned. However thinking about it I am not at all sure that it is the case especially after what has happened and the treatment from the Repubs. As time goes by there will be other races voted in as President. He has broken ground. and will be remembered. I still don't think he was or is that bad as a President considering the attitude of the Conservatives even before he was elected the first time. I do think it is a fact that a lot of his bad treatment is because many in the south and many far right religious people can't stand the thought of a black man as President. Let's call it the way it really is.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Heavens to Mergatroid!! What will they do when the next president is female? I have a feeling that some old and young white Repug men in the senate and house of reps will feel emasculated and be singing soprano!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree completely,. Neb is definitely not a racist in my opinion. I don't agree with her in many cases about her political beliefs but I know she is sincere in what she says.
> 
> I agree with the above post, but I think a Black man would be less welcome than just about any of the different races you have mentioned. However thinking about it I am not at all sure that it is the case especially after what has happened and the treatment from the Repubs. As time goes by there will be other races voted in as President. He has broken ground. and will be remembered. I still don't think he was or is that bad as a President considering the attitude of the Conservatives even before he was elected the first time. I do think it is a fact that a lot of his bad treatment is because many in the south and many far right religious people can't stand the thought of a black man as President. Let's call it the way it really is.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Notice how the 47 traitors are not being discussed around the site? It's easier to act like vultures and tear apart a woman who may or may not run for the presidency. I guess they can't face the shame of what their votes produced. Oh well, ignorance is bliss.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah, does she think she's part of the official government or something? Does she have enough intelligence to know which is business and what actually constitutes personal?
> 
> Give me a break.
> 
> Oh gee...I think "can you pick up milk, tofu and bread on your way home" counts as official state department business only if the person it was sent to happens to be in another country at the time.


I am sure the AP would love to read about Chelsea's wedding plans at the time; whether the dress should be silk or satin and what color the bridesmaids should wear. 
This whole thing is a joke.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The smart Republicans:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This whole Hillary Clinton email debacle is such a waste of time and tax payers money. Can you guess who is behind the witch hunt? If you guessed Citizens United you are correct. The AP is using the FOIA to gain all of her emails both business and personal.
> 
> If personal emails can be obtained from Hillary, then what is to stop them from going after anybody and everybody's? Let's go after John Boehner's and Mitch McConnell's personal emails while we are at it. Why stop there? Hell let's file a law suit against every Republican in Congress for their personal emails. That would go over like a fart in church.
> If they want gov documents pertaining to State Dept business, I can see their point. Trey Gowdy said today, "Who is she to determine which were personal and which were official state dept business?" And the fun begins! They get amazingly dumber as time goes on.
> They (Republicans) really are afraid that they will lose to her. And they have every reason to be.


I hope they enjoy all of Charlotte's baby pictures. And who knows, maybe they will get more agita thinking Charlotte may be President in 50 or so years.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hillary seems to be having some issues and the liberal media are critical of her today. Yikes!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hillary seems to be having some issues and the liberal media are critical of her today. Yikes!


Yes, SQ, I saw some of that. But at this time nobody knows what is on the hard drive on her computer or the server that has been under the security protection of the Secret Service. They can talk all they want, but at this point they have not one iota of proof of any wrong doing on her end. Right now it's all accusations, harassment, and speculation.
As I stated before, she has handed in 55,000 pages of emails to the 
Witch Hunt Committee already. Do they want the same ones all over again? There was nothing there the first time.
Why should she turn over personal emails? She has constitutional rights just like the rest of us. She has every right to balk. I would be disappointed if she didn't. Why expose your personal life to a bunch of southern wannabe president, *******, right wing nuts whose business it is not to begin with?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I hope they enjoy all of Charlotte's baby pictures. And who knows, maybe they will get more agita thinking Charlotte may be President in 50 or so years.


LOL!! I haven't heard the word 'agita' in years!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Notice how the 47 traitors are not being discussed around the site? It's easier to act like vultures and tear apart a woman who may or may not run for the presidency. I guess they can't face the shame of what their votes produced. Oh well, ignorance is bliss.


No discussion, but there WAS a post by one who will remain unnamed that was somewhat venomous. I didn't see a reply to it.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

And a viable response is


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> No discussion, but there WAS a post by one who will remain unnamed that was somewhat venomous. I didn't see a reply to it.


I saw that. It is only to be expected from that one. She states that the senators were authorized to send the letter. Really? By whom? It's 100% bullshtein as usual, D. They will repeat and repeat whatever Fox Noise tell them as if it were gospel. The haters will always hate, D. They don't know any better than that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And a viable response is


Good one, Marilyn! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Why doesn't she just tell them to check with the NSA? They have everything, don't they?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Why doesn't she just tell them to check with the NSA? They have everything, don't they?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Why doesn't she just tell them to check with the NSA? They have everything, don't they?


Because the witch hunters wouldn't be able to grandstand and get their mugs on TV or their names in the news?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because the witch hunters wouldn't be able to grandstand and get their mugs on TV or their names in the news?


Ah, but then they could crow even more..."see what was found by the NSA, we have x number of emails that were not handed over and threaten national security. If they didn't, the NSA wouldn't have them"

Without ever having to disclose the contents on the grounds of national security they could say they found all kinds of things without ever having to admit the emails were laundry lists, pictures of the last family vacation and probably not a few comments on the intelligence of the republicans who would be kings.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Ah, but then they could crow even more..."see what was found by the NSA, we have x number of emails that were not handed over and threaten national security. If they didn't, the NSA wouldn't have them"
> 
> Without ever having to disclose the contents on the grounds of national security they could say they found all kinds of things without ever having to admit the emails were laundry lists, pictures of the last family vacation and probably not a few comments on the intelligence of the republicans who would be kings.


Yep, that's the problem with republicans! I beleive that it will all turn out to be a stunt once again to derail a presidential campaign IF she decides to run for the office.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Rergarding the 47 treasonous idiots in the senate who wrote a letter to Iran, senator John McCain stated on Fox news "Maybe we should have done things differently" Ya think??


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Rergarding the 47 treasonous idiots in the senate who wrote a letter to Iran, senator John McCain stated on Fox news "Maybe we should have done things differently" Ya think??


Maybe? Maybe? I think his brain is fried.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Rergarding the 47 treasonous idiots in the senate who wrote a letter to Iran, senator John McCain stated on Fox news "Maybe we should have done things differently" Ya think??


Stephanie Miller named him, " Grampy McShame" I LOVE IT!!!!
I wouldn't give my private emails to anyone...why should she. Can you imagine the conversations she has with Bill and Friends. None of us would want private anything in public...DUH, that's why its private, right?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Stephanie Miller named him, " Grampy McShame" I LOVE IT!!!!
> I wouldn't give my private emails to anyone...why should she. Can you imagine the conversations she has with Bill and Friends. None of us would want private anything in public...DUH, that's why its private, right?


You and I agree on that, but the Associated Press doesn't understand that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You and I agree on that, but the Associated Press doesn't understand that.


Maybe we need to ask the AP head (or even one of its reporters) for THEIR private emails and see what happens.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You somehow have convinced yourself that there's no difference between the parties, but I happen to disagree. Democrats have always compromised; Repubs seem to think they're the only game in town.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/03/09/republicans-are-beginning-to-act-as-though-barack-obama-isnt-even-the-president/
> 
> ...


I am not trying to start something as I'm going to go to bed shortly. I just wanted to make an observation.

I found it interesting that you posted a link to this article because, here's the thing...LOTS of reps don't think that he IS a legitimate president. So I think that's at the crux of the whole thing. I'm not going to argue the whole thing again, but I believe that's why they're determined to stop him from accomplishing anything. I'm sure that in every group of people, there are some racists. But its ridiculous to think that any group of people could all be racists. IMO, they're hatred of him isn't about racism, but about the fact that they think he lied and hid everything about himself.

You can all respond that he is, but that doesn't change what a lot of people believe. I also think that if the reps had a black or female candidate who would toe the party line, they'd support them. JMO.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am not trying to start something as I'm going to go to bed shortly. I just wanted to make an observation.
> 
> I found it interesting that you posted a link to this article because, here's the thing...LOTS of reps don't think that he IS a legitimate president. So I think that's at the crux of the whole thing. I'm not going to argue the whole thing again, but I believe that's why they're determined to stop him from accomplishing anything. I'm sure that in every group of people, there are some racists. But its ridiculous to think that any group of people could all be racists. IMO, they're hatred of him isn't about racism, but about the fact that they think he lied and hid everything about himself.
> 
> You can all respond that he is, but that doesn't change what a lot of people believe. I also think that if the reps had a black or female candidate who would toe the party line, they'd support them. JMO.


They had one...Colin Powell. If they hadn't thrown him under the bus he would be president today.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is a joke, right? For his first few *years* in office, he tried. All they did was spit in his eye.


Are you serious? The first thing he did was to cram the aca down their throats. NO ONE was allowed to even read it before they voted for it. It was a purely partisan vote. The dems didn't even know what they were voting for! Remember? "You have to pass it, to see what's in it."?. No discussion! No compromise! Do you honestly think that obama is totally innocent in this pi$$ing contest? Obama set the tone, right from the start.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> They had one...Colin Powell. If they hadn't thrown him under the bus he would be president today.


The key phrase being, "toe the party line". That wasn't Colin Powell. Besides he was so disgusted by being forced to lie, that he wouldn't run.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What's the difference between negotiating in secret so Congress doesn't know what's going on (not that I think Obama is doing this) and telling huge lies so Congress doesn't know what's going on (which was how Bush got his congressional approval)?


I think bush's actions were worse. I just think that obama thinks he can act on his own, without legislative approval. They were warning him that he can't.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> He didn't have to lie. And the fact is that the Republican Party refused to endorse him for dog catcher. The house ****** did what he was bought for and wasn't good for anything else...and yes I have heard republicans call him just that.


I find this post offensive! IF some racist made that statement, nothing good can come from repeating it. Doing so, is purely inflammatory.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think bush's actions were worse. I just think that obama thinks he can act on his own, without legislative approval. They were warning him that he can't.


They were wrong. The president is not negotiating any sort of treaty with Iran. Therefore, Congress does not have to vote on anything while these talks are taking place. They made utter fools out of themselves and degraded our president and our country in the eyes of the rest of the world.
if it turns out that they scutted the deal, then 5 other countries who were also working with us will be very PO'd. They over stepped their bounds in this matter and should not get away with it. The president is very well aware of what he can and can't do according to the laws of this country. He doesn't need 47 idiots to undermine the talks or even the president in this case. The original composer of the letter has no idea in the field of foreign affairs.
Did you know that we are fighting beside Iran in the war against ISIS?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I find this post offensive! IF some racist made that statement, nothing good can come from repeating it. Doing so, is purely inflammatory.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I find this post offensive! IF some racist made that statement, nothing good can come from repeating it. Doing so, is purely inflammatory.


It's just to show you that that party will have to be dead for three generations before you'll ever see them endorse anybody who isn't a straight, white, christian (Protestant variety) male for high office.

And 2 other points...how can you possibly even imagine that the powers investigating eligibility to run for president wouldn't have done everything in their power to LEGALLY keep him off the ballot if they could?

2) how come the ACA was a marvelous idea when Romney implemented in Massachusetts but a horror when it went nationally? It's the SAME plan with only 2 exceptions that are laid on the insurance companies...using premiums to pay for treatment and not excluding pre-existing conditions. Romney's plan even included the penalty for people who could afford insurance but didn't bother.

So I don't see how you can possibly say nobody knew what was in it because it was nothing new to begin with AND was a republican brain child at that


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> They were wrong. The president is not negotiating any sort of treaty with Iran. Therefore, Congress does not have to vote on anything while these talks are taking place. They made utter fools out of themselves and degraded our president and our country in the eyes of the rest of the world.
> if it turns out that they scutted the deal, then 5 other countries who were also working with us will be very PO'd. They over stepped their bounds in this matter and should not get away with it. The president is very well aware of what he can and can't do according to the laws of this country. He doesn't need 47 idiots to undermine the talks or even the president in this case. The original composer of the letter has no idea in the field of foreign affairs.
> Did you know that we are fighting beside Iran in the war against ISIS?


I think it was deliberate, in hopes of wrecking anything that might possibly cause peace to break out. Those who wrote, endorsed and sent that letter are also the ones who want Iran seeing any kind of nuclear power only in the form of American bombs dropped on their country.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you serious? The first thing he did was to cram the aca down their throats. NO ONE was allowed to even read it before they voted for it. It was a purely partisan vote. The dems didn't even know what they were voting for! Remember? "You have to pass it, to see what's in it."?. No discussion! No compromise! Do you honestly think that obama is totally innocent in this pi$$ing contest? Obama set the tone, right from the start.


No one is totally innocent, but Obama is not (forgive the expression) as black as he's painted by the Repubs. I would suggest that opposition to him began with his color and then the rest got filled in by the few who realized they weren't being nice and their racism was showing.

As for "cramming the aca down their throats," the Pres. went out of his way to construct it based on a couple of conservative plans (Mitt Romney's in Mass. and the Heritage think tank's earlier). But even their own plan was unacceptable to the Repugs, so they made up all that crap about death panels and how grandma was going to lose all her coverage. We needed an affordable medical plan, and since the opposition only wanted to stop it, not change it or add their own ideas to the mix, it was Obama who was forced to do it the way he did.

BTW, in case you've missed it, treaties don't need ratification by the Senate and usually don't get it, judging by some recent pieces by scholars of US and international. So now, if he uses the same tactic used by George Washington, he'll be called a dictator by the likes of you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I find this post offensive! IF some racist made that statement, nothing good can come from repeating it. Doing so, is purely inflammatory.


Too bad - it's a very close description of what goes on in the minds of conservatives these days, though they're usually more chaotic.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am not trying to start something as I'm going to go to bed shortly. I just wanted to make an observation.
> 
> I found it interesting that you posted a link to this article because, here's the thing...LOTS of reps don't think that he IS a legitimate president. So I think that's at the crux of the whole thing. I'm not going to argue the whole thing again, but I believe that's why they're determined to stop him from accomplishing anything. I'm sure that in every group of people, there are some racists. But its ridiculous to think that any group of people could all be racists. IMO, they're hatred of him isn't about racism, but about the fact that they think he lied and hid everything about himself.
> 
> You can all respond that he is, but that doesn't change what a lot of people believe. I also think that if the reps had a black or female candidate who would toe the party line, they'd support them. JMO.


Specifically, what lie about himself? You're not going to start that birther crap, I hope.

What did he hide?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you serious? The first thing he did was to cram the aca down their throats. NO ONE was allowed to even read it before they voted for it. It was a purely partisan vote. The dems didn't even know what they were voting for! Remember? "You have to pass it, to see what's in it."?. No discussion! No compromise! Do you honestly think that obama is totally innocent in this pi$$ing contest? Obama set the tone, right from the start.


.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's just to show you that that party will have to be dead for three generations before you'll ever see them endorse anybody who isn't a straight, white, christian (Protestant variety) male for high office.
> 
> And 2 other points...how can you possibly even imagine that the powers investigating eligibility to run for president wouldn't have done everything in their power to LEGALLY keep him off the ballot if they could?
> 
> ...


What she said.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think bush's actions were worse. I just think that obama thinks he can act on his own, without legislative approval. They were warning him that he can't.


How do you know what Obama thinks? Seems like your dislike for him is showing.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The key phrase being, "toe the party line". That wasn't Colin Powell. Besides he was so disgusted by being forced to lie, that he wouldn't run.


Colin Powell was deceived and used. I think he is a man of great integrity and would not knowingly lie.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Why doesn't she just tell them to check with the NSA? They have everything, don't they?


As a further enhancement, she is not the only one. Ken Paulson wrote the following in USA today yesterday:

The controversy over Hillary Clinton's use of private e-mails as secretary of State may be embarrassing, but her political rivals will be hard-pressed to use it to their advantage. She just has too much company.

An array of prominent politicians have used their private accounts for government business:

Former Alaska governor Sarah Palin used a personal e-mail account in office, eventually leading to a state Supreme Court ruling that the public has a right to see private e-mails about the public's business.
The Associated Press revealed in 2012 that Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal's administration used a private account to plot Medicaid cuts.
In November, Florida Gov. Rick Scott's office acknowledged that Scott had used private e-mails to conduct public business.
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker used a private e-mail system during his term as Milwaukee County executive.

It doesn't stop there and it knows no political boundaries. Mayors, school board members, county commissioners, senators, governors and many more play fast and loose with electronic communications. Doing the public's business through private e-mails is a frequent practice nationwide, in offices high and low.

"It's an issue that is common on all levels of government," said Adam Marshall, legal fellow for the Reporters Committee For Freedom of the Press. "It's an endemic problem."

State public records laws are designed to give citizens the information they need to assess the work of public officials, but the use of texts and private e-mails are an end run around the public's right to know.

"It has a devastating impact on the ability of the people  whether the people of a state or people of a nation  to understand what their elected officials are doing," Marshall said.

Private e-mails among public officials also undercut open public meetings when the real discussions occur electronically.

"If all the deliberations take place over private accounts before a meeting is conducted then it's merely the illusion that public debate is happening and that open meetings are taking place," Marshall said.

Legislation often lags behind technology and many states are still plugging holes in their open records laws. Last year, for example, Maine barred state employees from using texts, instant messaging or personal e-mail to do state business.

Government communications in a digital era are easier to track in many respects. In an era of typewriters and paper, a reporter seeking documents had to hope a government office kept carbon copies. But at a time of instantaneous and mobile communication, messages can also be easier to hide or destroy.

There's some irony in the fact that Clinton has been forced to address the issue of private e-mails days before Sunshine Week, an annual event organized by the American Society of News Editors to raise public awareness about the need for public access to government information.

For years, freedom of information organizations have beat the drum about the public's business being conducted privately, but there's been little public outrage or response.

Then came the revelation that Clinton had used a private e-mail domain throughout her years as secretary of State. Just as a celebrity associated with a cause or disease can spike public interest, suddenly freedom of information was trending.

Clinton's use of private e-mails in a job laden with classified information was reckless, but the upside is that hours of cable coverage and breathless pundits have signaled to public officials across the country there may be a political price for not disclosing your correspondence.

When Clinton ran for the presidency in 2008, she was asked by Sunshine Week organizers for her thoughts about access to public information. "I believe in an open, transparent government that is accountable to the people," she wrote.

Principles are one thing. Practice is another. The free flow of information will inevitably depend on public officials complying with both the spirit and letter of public records laws. Disclosure is good for democracy.

Ken Paulson is the president of the First Amendment Center, dean of the College of Mass Communication at Middle Tennessee State University and a member of USA TODAY's Board of Contributors.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> As a further enhancement, she is not the only one. Ken Paulson wrote the following in USA today yesterday:
> 
> The controversy over Hillary Clinton's use of private e-mails as secretary of State may be embarrassing, but her political rivals will be hard-pressed to use it to their advantage. She just has too much company.


Text deleted to save space.

Meanwhile, in Arizona, our less than illustrious representative Brenda Barton has introduced a bill to gut our open meetings law.

The bill strikes all language about the public's right to access and is changed to say the public has a right to be present only when a government body takes action or votes.

The excuse? To protect legislators, school board members and other public servants from being prosecuted frivolously if they happen to discuss issues over lunch or at social gatherings.

Private e-mails? Meh.

Arizona's legislature is in supposed to be in session only for a few months of the year but they often extend their deliberations into special sessions due to the demands of modern-day needs and realities. This year, leadership's goal is to end their session about a month from now. This meant our 2016 budget was literally pushed through in the wee hours of the morning and a lot of business is being pushed on the fast track. Things like proposed repeal of our Clean Elections law, a draconian measure related to an ALEC-written bill on constitutional conventions, and on and on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh Arizona.



DGreen said:


> Text deleted to save space.
> 
> Meanwhile, in Arizona, our less than illustrious representative Brenda Barton has introduced a bill to gut our open meetings law.
> 
> ...


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you serious? The first thing he did was to cram the aca down their throats. NO ONE was allowed to even read it before they voted for it. It was a purely partisan vote. The dems didn't even know what they were voting for! Remember? "You have to pass it, to see what's in it."?. No discussion! No compromise! Do you honestly think that obama is totally innocent in this pi$$ing contest? Obama set the tone, right from the start.


All due respect KFN, but I don't believe a word of what you've just written. I'm going to stick with the adage 'if it doesn't make sense, then it's probably not true.' If that were the case, I cannot steal myself to believe that not one politician stood up and said "I will not vote on this because I have not been given the opportunity to read the bill." If there was such a politician, he/she would have made headlines around the world, particularly in light of the fact that Barack Obama is an African/American and President.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> All due respect KFN, but I don't believe a word of what you've just written. I'm going to stick with the adage 'if it doesn't make sense, then it's probably not true.' If that were the case, I cannot steal myself to believe that not one politician stood up and said "I will not vote on this because I have not been given the opportunity to read the bill." If there was such a politician, he/she would have made headlines around the world, particularly in light of the fact that Barack Obama is an African/American and President.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: "If it doesn't make sense, then it's probably not true." I like that.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


You too? I was reported a while back. What's wrong with a PM stating one's case?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: "If it doesn't make sense, then it's probably not true." I like that.


Dame, I've heard that adage so many times in legal arguments. It holds very true.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


I just went back over two pages of your recent messages, and I ask What the f were you reported about?

It's prob. no big deal; I was reported for posting the picture of Psycho Killer Cheryl Holland ("posting personal information in public"), even though the RWNs claim that's not the name of any one of them, and I live to tell about it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> All due respect KFN, but I don't believe a word of what you've just written. I'm going to stick with the adage 'if it doesn't make sense, then it's probably not true.' If that were the case, I cannot steal myself to believe that not one politician stood up and said "I will not vote on this because I have not been given the opportunity to read the bill." If there was such a politician, he/she would have made headlines around the world, particularly in light of the fact that Barack Obama is an African/American and President.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Rergarding the 47 treasonous idiots in the senate who wrote a letter to Iran, senator John McCain stated on Fox news "Maybe we should have done things differently" Ya think??


A lot of editorials in newspapers across the country are denouncing the senators and their letter. I think McCain is the only one who has said it might not have been a good idea. I have written Charlie several emails on the subject. It will be interesting to see how he answers. A lot of newspapers and people in general see it for what it is. How can senators that have been in the senate for a long time be so stupid. This was talked about for some time. It wasn't just written and then signed quickly, so they had time to think about it. I think it just proves how many of them need to go home. 24 of the 47 will be up for election in 2016.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


I don't think it would be too hard to figure out this puzzle, do you?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> A lot of editorials in newspapers across the country are denouncing the senators and their letter. I think McCain is the only one who has said it might not have been a good idea. I have written Charlie several emails on the subject. It will be interesting to see how he answers. A lot of newspapers and people in general see it for what it is. How can senators that have been in the senate for a long time be so stupid. This was talked about for some time. It wasn't just written and then signed quickly, so they had time to think about it. I think it just proves how many of them need to go home. 24 of the 47 will be up for election in 2016.


Was Charlie G one of the signers?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> A lot of editorials in newspapers across the country are denouncing the senators and their letter. I think McCain is the only one who has said it might not have been a good idea. I have written Charlie several emails on the subject. It will be interesting to see how he answers. A lot of newspapers and people in general see it for what it is. How can senators that have been in the senate for a long time be so stupid. This was talked about for some time. It wasn't just written and then signed quickly, so they had time to think about it. I think it just proves how many of them need to go home. 24 of the 47 will be up for election in 2016.


I have come to the conclusion that McCain doesn't like to be 'scolded' However, he shows his real feelings when he acts and sometimes back tracks when the s--t hits the fan.

I used to admire him but not even a little bit now.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I don't think it would be too hard to figure out this puzzle, do you?


No question about that!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am not trying to start something as I'm going to go to bed shortly. I just wanted to make an observation.
> 
> I found it interesting that you posted a link to this article because, here's the thing...LOTS of reps don't think that he IS a legitimate president. So I think that's at the crux of the whole thing. I'm not going to argue the whole thing again, but I believe that's why they're determined to stop him from accomplishing anything. I'm sure that in every group of people, there are some racists. But its ridiculous to think that any group of people could all be racists. IMO, they're hatred of him isn't about racism, but about the fact that they think he lied and hid everything about himself.
> 
> You can all respond that he is, but that doesn't change what a lot of people believe. I also think that if the reps had a black or female candidate who would toe the party line, they'd support them. JMO.


Republicans have hated him since day 1. It is not just dislike, it is pure hate and they don't mind voicing it. They hated him before he ever lifted a finger to do anything as president. They have refused to work with him for the good of the country. The attitude of the republicans in Washington has spread to republicans across the US. No one cares what they say, even when it comes to the daughters. One of the racist comments from Ferguson about a picture of bare breasted black women, was that it was Michelle Obamas high school reunion. Can you imagine anyone saying something like that about Laura Bush or Nancy Reagan. Is it racism or not? At this point I don't think it matters anymore. Is it because he is black or because they think he isn't a legitimate president, or maybe they think he isn't a legitimate president because he is black. I think the last sentence pretty much sums it up for me. Stopping him from doing anything because he is not a legitimate president and at the same time doing harm to this country pretty much tells me what kind of people republicans are.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's just to show you that that party will have to be dead for three generations before you'll ever see them endorse anybody who isn't a straight, white, christian (Protestant variety) male for high office.
> 
> And 2 other points...how can you possibly even imagine that the powers investigating eligibility to run for president wouldn't have done everything in their power to LEGALLY keep him off the ballot if they could?
> 
> ...


And it was discussed over and over and over in congress so for anyone to say they didn't know what was in it, just shows their own stupidity. The town hall meetings they had where people like Grassley talked about "pulling the plug on Grandma," were done to scare people and to make people hate it, but thank God it passed anyway. Rushbo said if the ACA ended up working, he would leave the country. Wonder if he needs someone to help him pack?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I just went back over two pages of your recent messages, and I ask What the f were you reported about?
> 
> It's prob. no big deal; I was reported for posting the picture of Psycho Killer Cheryl Holland ("posting personal information in public"), even though the RWNs claim that's not the name of any one of them, and I live to tell about it.


Ostrich paid me a visit when I swore at KBG. I don't like to upset the Ostrich but she pushed me out of my friendly canopy with one of her remarks re: my SIL.

Cheryl Holland, Murderess - so good to see her name again in print.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Was Charlie G one of the signers?


Yes, both he and Ernst signed.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I have come to the conclusion that McCain doesn't like to be 'scolded' However, he shows his real feelings when he acts and sometimes back tracks when the s--t hits the fan.
> 
> I used to admire him but not even a little bit now.


Yes, he can have a light bulb moment every once in awhile, and then the next thing that comes out of his mouth leaves you shaking your head.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


The he!! For what? Sounds as if lame little brains are starting to panic at smarter brains putting 2 + 3 together and making them look like the narrow little things they are. Go Judy!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I don't think it would be too hard to figure out this puzzle, do you?


Not really. Do I want to be banned for actually naming? No.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


I don't think it is hard to figure out who the coward was.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> Republicans have hated him since day 1. It is not just dislike, it is pure hate and they don't mind voicing it. They hated him before he ever lifted a finger to do anything as president. They have refused to work with him for the good of the country. The attitude of the republicans in Washington has spread to republicans across the US. No one cares what they say, even when it comes to the daughters. One of the racist comments from Ferguson about a picture of bare breasted black women, was that it was Michelle Obamas high school reunion. Can you imagine anyone saying something like that about Laura Bush or Nancy Reagan. Is it racism or not? At this point I don't think it matters anymore. Is it because he is black or because they think he isn't a legitimate president, or maybe they think he isn't a legitimate president because he is black. I think the last sentence pretty much sums it up for me. Stopping him from doing anything because he is not a legitimate president and at the same time doing harm to this country pretty much tells me what kind of people republicans are.


They are the scorpion who bites the otter transporting him across the river as in Aesop's fable.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> And it was discussed over and over and over in congress so for anyone to say they didn't know what was in it, just shows their own stupidity. The town hall meetings they had where people like Grassley talked about "pulling the plug on Grandma," were done to scare people and to make people hate it, but thank God it passed anyway. Rushbo said if the ACA ended up working, he would leave the country. Wonder if he needs someone to help him pack?


Promises, promises. You expected something?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Not really. Do I want to be banned for actually naming? No.


Of course we would love to know who the rat fink is. Can you talk about an avatar?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Thank you to whoever was cowardly enough to report me to the admin.


I did NOT report you to admin! I took it up with you, personally and that was the end of it for me. Maybe someone else was as offended as I was, or admin just read it themselves. Again, I did NOT report anyone or anything!

I have only ever, reported one person and that person is not on this thread.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> You too? I was reported a while back. What's wrong with a PM stating one's case?


I state what i think, right out in the open.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Colin Powell was deceived and used. I think he is a man of great integrity and would not knowingly lie.


I agree!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> I don't think it would be too hard to figure out this puzzle, do you?


I think youre insinuating that it was me because I'm the one who said that I was offended. I did not report it. I dont like people thinking that I did, either. This is a truthful statement. Ive disagreed with people many times and have also been offended. When I am, I say so. Tattling is not my MO.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I did NOT report you to admin! I took it up with you, personally and that was the end of it for me. Maybe someone else was as offended as I was, or admin just read it themselves. Again, I did NOT report anyone or anything!
> 
> I have only ever, reported one person and that person is not on this thread.


The word was WHOEVER. Defending yourself if there's no need to only makes you LOOK guilty. And the word to pay attention to there is *LOOK*


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> The word was WHOEVER. Defending yourself if there's no need to only makes you LOOK guilty. And the word to pay attention to there is *LOOK*


Dirty pool. The insinuations all pointed to Nebs. The N word was used and we can have a lot of lurkers who were not made happy.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Dirty pool. The insinuations all pointed to Nebs. The N word was used and we can have a lot of lurkers who were not made happy.


Not really. There was another who was highly offended. But, I really did, and do, mean WHOEVER.

Also, lurkers who might have been offended could only have been offended by the fact that I only said what they've been thinking and wished they could have used.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Not really. There was another who was highly offended. But, I really did, and do, mean WHOEVER.
> 
> Also, lurkers who might have been offended could only have been offended by the fact that I only said what they've been thinking and wished they could have used.


I liked what you said because it is the truth. You are still here so don't worry. You have joined the club. I promised Ostrich that I would not swear here anymore.

We are good for business.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Not really. Do I want to be banned for actually naming? No.


I certainly would not name that person. Whether is was someone involved in the discussion or one of the lurkers matters not to me. I just have to agree that reporting to admin is cowardly....I would have confronted the problem head on with you.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I certainly would not name that person. Whether is was someone involved in the discussion or one of the lurkers matters not to me. I just have to agree that reporting to admin is cowardly....I would have confronted the problem head on with you.


But that's what cowards do, isn't it? Sneak and complain and never want to own up to their actions.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> But that's what cowards do, isn't it? Sneak and complain and never want to own up to their actions.


Exactly!!! Several around the site I believe.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Dirty pool. The insinuations all pointed to Nebs. The N word was used and we can have a lot of lurkers who were not made happy.


Thanks, SQM!

IMO, if i did not address this, people would think that i was guilty.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Charlie has changed his tune to fit the moment too many times to believe him on anything. He is not an elder statesman/POW. I let him have it regularly.

Ps. He had a big push for campaign reform decades ago. Now he lines us at the pig trough like the rest.



NJG said:


> A lot of editorials in newspapers across the country are denouncing the senators and their letter. I think McCain is the only one who has said it might not have been a good idea. I have written Charlie several emails on the subject. It will be interesting to see how he answers. A lot of newspapers and people in general see it for what it is. How can senators that have been in the senate for a long time be so stupid. This was talked about for some time. It wasn't just written and then signed quickly, so they had time to think about it. I think it just proves how many of them need to go home. 24 of the 47 will be up for election in 2016.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let's go for it. I'm curious.



Cindy S said:


> I don't think it would be too hard to figure out this puzzle, do you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry. My mind lost McCain's first name temporarily. Wish I could lose it all.



Poor Purl said:


> Was Charlie G one of the signers?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I have come to the conclusion that McCain doesn't like to be 'scolded' However, he shows his real feelings when he acts and sometimes back tracks when the s--t hits the fan.
> 
> I used to admire him but not even a little bit now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Good thinking.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sorry. My mind lost McCain's first name temporarily. Wish I could lose it all.


It's John. Take what you will from that. 

I became thoroughly disgusted with him when I saw the photo of him hugging Bush. This was after the Bush campaign did everything they could to smear him, especially in the south, by insinuating that he had an illegitimate "black" daughter. Talking about McCain's adopted daughter from Bangladesh.

Most people don't realize how bad that is especially here in SC. Of course McCain didn't have to have that to discredit him here...picking a woman for his running mate already had lost him SC.

Even 'saint' Strom Thurmond who was in his 90s and needed 2 people to help him get to the chamber for a vote (and one beside him to keep him awake) was mourned when he died for not being able to run again lost his halo when it was revealed he had a couple of mixed race children bearing his DNA. You no longer hear "we need another Thurmond in office". All because of a descendent with more melanin in her skin.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I did NOT report you to admin! I took it up with you, personally and that was the end of it for me. Maybe someone else was as offended as I was, or admin just read it themselves. Again, I did NOT report anyone or anything!
> 
> I have only ever, reported one person and that person is not on this thread.


I don't think anyone has thought you have ever reported anyone Neb.

However, some of us might have an idea of who did but no names have been mentioned nor will they be.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> DGreen said:
> 
> 
> > Colin Powell was deceived and used. I think he is a man of great integrity and would not knowingly lie.
> ...


I wish I could agree, but I can't believe that he thought there was anthrax in those vials. The Bush admin. had a huge vacuum where its moral compass should have been, and they sucked in everyone around them. Powell was one of their victims.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Dirty pool. The insinuations all pointed to Nebs. The N word was used and we can have a lot of lurkers who were not made happy.


Personally, I know Neb and I would never think she would use that word .

I just hate that word so much -- and we leave ourselves open if we use it -I imagine that is what was reported.
The poster was not using the name as something she would agree with but to make a point from what I read. Best to avoid saying those type of things though.

I do, however completely agree with what you were saying - I just had a problem with the use of that word.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Admin must get weary of those who report every chance they get. I know Judy was making a point, but I think that word is a 'no no' with good reason. I agree with sloth. I hate even reading it. It makes me feel sad, angry and frustrated. But there are many people we know who think it but don't admit it. Quite possibly one of them reported it. But I still don't agree that it shoud ever be used by anyone for any reason.


It's an ugly word. But sometimes a slap in the face is needed to make people understand just HOW ugly it is...even when they are trying to deny that just thinking it doesn't mean anything. Because thoughts drive actions even when you aren't aware of it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It's an ugly word. But sometimes a slap in the face is needed to make people understand just HOW ugly it is...even when they are trying to deny that just thinking it doesn't mean anything. Because thoughts drive actions even when you aren't aware of it.


 I agree with what you were saying, I just don't agree with using that word to make the point.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with what you were saying, I just don't agree with using that word to make the point.


I don't think there's a way to make that point without using that word. Nothing else comes close.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No one is totally innocent, but Obama is not (forgive the expression) as black as he's painted by the Repubs. I would suggest that opposition to him began with his color and then the rest got filled in by the few who realized they weren't being nice and their racism was showing.
> 
> As for "cramming the aca down their throats," the Pres. went out of his way to construct it based on a couple of conservative plans (Mitt Romney's in Mass. and the Heritage think tank's earlier). But even their own plan was unacceptable to the Repugs, so they made up all that crap about death panels and how grandma was going to lose all her coverage. We needed an affordable medical plan, and since the opposition only wanted to stop it, not change it or add their own ideas to the mix, it was Obama who was forced to do it the way he did.
> 
> BTW, in case you've missed it, treaties don't need ratification by the Senate and usually don't get it, judging by some recent pieces by scholars of US and international. So now, if he uses the same tactic used by George Washington, he'll be called a dictator by the likes of you.


I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person. Admittedly, there are racist conservatives and racist liberals, but as a group, liberals are absolutely obsessed. They can't even talk about a black person, without mentioning that he's black, and therefore a victim of racism. IMO, that's racism in itself. "Obama is not as black as he's painted by the Repubs'??? Just what is that supposed to mean?

Whether the aca was modeled after romneycare or any other program, is irrelevant. The congressmen and senators were not given a chance to read it before the vote. How can ANYONE say they're representing their constituents when they're voting for a bill they didn't read. I expect my representative to KNOW what it is, he's/she's voting for. If they don't, they're not representing me. IMO, this was partisan politics, at it's worst. It set the tone for everything that came after.

I can't imagine what kind of scholars would say that treaties don't have to be ratified by the senate. But then, people can say whatever they want, without it being the truth. Here's exactly what the Constitution says. 
Article II, Section 2, Clause 2: (under duties of the president) " He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties,provided two thirds of the Senators present concur, and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law:..". That's pretty clear to anyone who can read, schools or not. Just because presidents sign treaties and ACT like they don't need to be ratifies, doesn't mean that they don't. It is the law of the land.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


My prayers are with Grace, her family and you. I hope there is some solution to this problem and she is able to make a recovery.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> My prayers are with Grace, her family and you. I hope there is some solution to this problem and she is able to make a recovery.


There is no recovery from the conditions Grace has. Hydrocephalic and with ectodermal displaysia which encompasses 192 different presentations which can show in any single form, any combination or ALL. They're seeing several and not knowing how many more might show up.

The shunts don't seem to be doing much good (there are now 3), the ventricles are not reducing in size and anti seizure meds aren't working. This is one very damaged little girl.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person.


By their actions you will know them. Who is working very hard to make sure blacks cannot vote? Who is calling them thugs and criminals?

Sure doesn't seem to be anyone but the "conservatives".

Also, what is in the works right now between the 6 countries and Iran is an AGREEMENT, which could eventually lead to a treaty but, at the moment, isn't anywhere near that point and this letter makes it clear that the "conservatives" (who also happen to all be war-mongers) want to make sure never happens.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person. Admittedly, there are racist conservatives and racist liberals, but as a group, liberals are absolutely obsessed. They can't even talk about a black person, without mentioning that he's black, and therefore a victim of racism. IMO, that's racism in itself. "Obama is not as black as he's painted by the Repubs'??? Just what is that supposed to mean?


What it meant was that I felt comfortable enough to make a joke about color; pity you didn't get it. The actual expression is "the devil is not so black as he is painted." It's an old saying, going back to the 15th century.

What liberals may be obsessed with - though I don't think that's the appropriate word - is bringing into the fold those groups who haven't benefited from living in this country, and the largest and longest-lived such group are black people. So when we finally have a black man as President, it's hard not to see how "conservatives" react to him. Before he even opened his mouth ... no, I take that back because of the magnificent speech he made at the DNC in 2004. Very early on, however, he was defamed in ways that no president before him has been. The problem with people who claim that they're colorblind is that they don't see the racist nature of what's happening. There's a difference between believing that race should not play a part in how people are treated (the liberal view) and pretending that race doesn't play such a part even when it clearly does (the Republican view - I don't think I can attribute it to all conservatives).



> Whether the aca was modeled after romneycare or any other program, is irrelevant. The congressmen and senators were not given a chance to read it before the vote. How can ANYONE say they're representing their constituents when they're voting for a bill they didn't read. I expect my representative to KNOW what it is, he's/she's voting for. If they don't, they're not representing me. IMO, this was partisan politics, at it's worst. It set the tone for everything that came after.


I'm not going to revisit all the crap about Congress not being permitted to see the ACA; that was their own choice, and it's a crock.



> I can't imagine what kind of scholars would say that treaties don't have to be ratified by the senate. But then, people can say whatever they want, without it being the truth. Here's exactly what the Constitution says.
> Article II, Section 2, Clause 2: (under duties of the president) " He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties,provided two thirds of the Senators present concur, and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law:..". That's pretty clear to anyone who can read, schools or not. Just because presidents sign treaties and ACT like they don't need to be ratifies, doesn't mean that they don't. It is the law of the land.


That's something you should look up; there's a lot of information on that, and somebody here posted a link to a relevant article. You need to realize that the Constitution has had a lot of work, by the Courts and by Congress, since 1789, and unless you've been to law school you don't understand what is meant.

I have no more time to waste on this; painters are coming tomorrow, and at any rate I'm bored. But please stop preaching as if you understood the law and its history, because all you have is "a little learning" (another expression, but it only goes back to the 18th century).


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> There is no recovery from the conditions Grace has. Hydrocephalic and with ectodermal displaysia which encompasses 192 different presentations which can show in any single form, any combination or ALL. They're seeing several and not knowing how many more might show up.
> 
> The shunts don't seem to be doing much good (there are now 3), the ventricles are not reducing in size and anti seizure meds aren't working. This is one very damaged little girl.


I am sorry to say that I had not kept up with her health issue, and I really don't know what to say at this point, except to say that Grace will continue to be in my prayers.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


I'm so sorry. I wish I believed in the efficacy of prayer. Maybe I'll try it anyway; I suppose it couldn't hurt. She's had such a rough time in her little life.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am sorry to say that I had not kept up with her health issue, and I really don't know what to say at this point, except to say that Grace will continue to be in my prayers.


It's hard enough for me to keep up with it. My feelings are so mixed. I want her to have the best life possible with the fewest problems and then I look at what the reality is and I feel guilty for thinking it might be kinder if she didn't survive.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> It's hard enough for me to keep up with it. My feelings are so mixed. I want her to have the best life possible with the fewest problems and then I look at what the reality is and I feel guilty for thinking it might be kinder if she didn't survive.


Don't feel guilty, you are just being realistic and I don't have any problem with you posting your frustrations here, you have to get it out somehow.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That's pretty clear to anyone who can read, schools or not. Just because presidents sign treaties and ACT like they don't need to be ratifies, doesn't mean that they don't. It is the law of the land.


Only someone who knows no law believes that. I'll repeat one post and try to find another.


> Starting with George Washington, presidents have signed thousands of executive agreements with other nations that have the force of law under the United States Constitution and international law.
> 
> *The Constitution has been construed by the Supreme Court as allowing the president to enter into such binding agreements as part of his executive powers. *While such agreements in theory could be abrogated by an American president or a subsequent law, under international law such agreements would continue to be binding on the United States. The attempted breach would give rise to a charge that the United States was violating international law.
> 
> ...


Then there's this, which Patty linked to http://www.lawfareblog.com/2015/03/the-error-in-the-senators-letter-to-the-leaders-of-iran/: Please let us know whether your knowledge of the law agrees with it.

The Error in the Senators Letter to the Leaders of Iran
by Jack Goldsmith

Josh Rogin reports that a group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Irans leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obamas administration wont last after Obama leaves office. Here is the letter. Its premise is that Irans leaders may not fully understand our constitutional system, and in particular may not understand the nature of the power to make binding international agreements. It appears from the letter that the Senators do not understand our constitutional system or the power to make binding agreements.

The letter states that the Senate must ratify [a treaty] by a two-thirds vote. But *as the Senates own web page makes clear: The Senate does not ratify treaties. Instead, the Senate takes up a resolution of ratification, by which the Senate formally gives its advice and consent, empowering the president to proceed with ratification* (my emphasis). Or, as this outstanding 2001 CRS Report on the Senates role in treaty-making states (at 117): I_t is the President who negotiates and ultimately ratifies treaties for the United States, but only if the Senate in the intervening period gives its advice and consent._ Ratification is the formal act of the nations consent to be bound by the treaty on the international plane. Senate consent is a necessary but not sufficient condition of treaty ratification for the United States. As the CRS Report notes: When a treaty to which the Senate has advised and consented  is returned to the President, he may simply decide not to ratify the treaty.

This is a technical point that does not detract from the letters message that any administration deal with Iran might not last beyond this presidency. (I analyzed this point here last year.) But in a letter purporting to teach a constitutional lesson, the error is embarrassing.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person. Admittedly, there are racist conservatives and racist liberals, but as a group, liberals are absolutely obsessed. They can't even talk about a black person, without mentioning that he's black, and therefore a victim of racism. IMO, that's racism in itself. "Obama is not as black as he's painted by the Repubs'??? Just what is that supposed to mean?
> 
> Whether the aca was modeled after romneycare or any other program, is irrelevant. The congressmen and senators were not given a chance to read it before the vote. How can ANYONE say they're representing their constituents when they're voting for a bill they didn't read. I expect my representative to KNOW what it is, he's/she's voting for. If they don't, they're not representing me. IMO, this was partisan politics, at it's worst. It set the tone for everything that came after.
> 
> ...


Race has been swept under the rug for years. I was naive enough to think things were better than they were. Do you honestly believe all the changes to voting in the red states has nothing to do with race? That is all at the doing of the republicans. Have all the police shootings of unarmed black men, some of them children, have nothing to do with race? After one of those shootings, listen to Fox and listen to how it is reported. You say liberals are obsessed. Jan Brewer points her finger in the face of the president. Have you seen anyone else do that? Joe Wilson yelled "you lie," at the president. The Kansas speaker of the house cited a bible verse calling for President Obama to be killed, his wife to be widowed, and his children to be orphaned, and pictures of the president and his parents that make them look like monkeys. Being associated with him is like touching a ********. I could go on and on, but will stop with these examples. I wish we didn't have to be obsessed with race, but our first black president has been treated so badly, there is no choice. It's just that a lot of the racist conservatives are still sweeping it under the rug. Just because they don't say it out loud, don't think for one minute that it isn't there. 
Anyone who voted for the aca without reading it is stupid and should be voted out of office. All that is, is an excuse. Republicans have used every excuse in the book to try to get rid of the ACA. Was there anything in it about death panels or pulling the plug on Grandma. NO, but that didn't stop them from telling the lie in order to scare people, scare elderly people into thinking that if they got cancer past a certain age, they would not be taken care of. That garbage was all from republicans. They want you to believe they didn't get to read it, but they also want you to believe they read those lies in it. I am sick of hearing all that same old crap, over and over and over. You can read it yourself, if you don't want to then let it rest for God sake.

What the US and the 5 other countries are doing is not a treaty.

"It is essentially up to the administration to decide whether it is negotiating an agreement that formally binds the United States to commitments under international law; i.e., a treaty, or a less stringent arrangement."

Jim Walsh, a specialist on the Iran nuclear program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said the Iran deal, which commits the United States to waive or lift sanctions, does not rise to the level of a formal treaty.

"Treaties traditionally have involved reductions in armaments, nuclear weapons, conventional forces. They require us to take something away that we have already built or established." In this case, the United States would lift sanctions, but would not be changing its military posture.

"We have had all sorts of agreement that were never ratified by Congress," Walsh said.

In the letter he penned to Iran, Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton acknowledged that the administration could seek a mere "executive agreement" free of congressional review.

Examples of "nonbinding" documents include a U.S.-Russia to remove Syria's stocks of chemical weapons and the Proliferation Security Initiative to stop the global shipment of the weapons of mass destruction components. How come no republican has been yelling about this.

The White House would clearly prefer a binding agreement with Iran, which would have a better chance of longevity. But the strength of opposition in Congress makes that route impossible.

It doesn't matter if republicans think it is a good idea or not. Since it is coming from President Obama, they will be against it, no matter if it is good for the country or not.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> There is no recovery from the conditions Grace has. Hydrocephalic and with ectodermal displaysia which encompasses 192 different presentations which can show in any single form, any combination or ALL. They're seeing several and not knowing how many more might show up.
> 
> The shunts don't seem to be doing much good (there are now 3), the ventricles are not reducing in size and anti seizure meds aren't working. This is one very damaged little girl.


It sounds like it will come to the point where they have to decide what is best for her. I am so sorry that things sound so dismal for such a beautiful and precious little baby.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Bad and sad news about Our Gracieee. I hope what is best prevails.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person. Admittedly, there are racist conservatives and racist liberals, but as a group, liberals are absolutely obsessed. They can't even talk about a black person, without mentioning that he's black, and therefore a victim of racism. IMO, that's racism in itself. "Obama is not as black as he's painted by the Repubs'??? Just what is that supposed to mean?
> 
> Whether the aca was modeled after romneycare or any other program, is irrelevant. The congressmen and senators were not given a chance to read it before the vote. How can ANYONE say they're representing their constituents when they're voting for a bill they didn't read. I expect my representative to KNOW what it is, he's/she's voting for. If they don't, they're not representing me. IMO, this was partisan politics, at it's worst. It set the tone for everything that came after.
> 
> ...


Liberals are obsessed with equality for ALL races, many conservatives on the other hand are obsessed with oppression of many races. You need to get your head out of that hole you have buried it in.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think there's a way to make that point without using that word. Nothing else comes close.


you might be right - but if you do you have a very good chance of being called on it. I don't happen to agree that that word has to be used at all. I realize I am from a place where very rarely if ever it is used. But I don't agree that it is the only way to prove a point.

I am going to let this go. I do understand what Judy meant and I agree with her -- I just don't agree that it is the only way to make that point.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Judy, I am sooo sorry the news is so bad for that lovely little baby. I feel so sorry for your sister and the family. Poor wee Grace.

How are the parents accepting this information? It doesn't sound as if your Niece in law can hide her head in the sand with this news.

I know what a hard road they will travel no matter what the outcome. 
Don't feel guilty about being honest. It doesn't mean you wish her harm, you are hoping she doesn't have to suffer. 


Are here sisters still thriving? I hope so. So hard on your sister and you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> Race has been swept under the rug for years. I was naive enough to think things were better than they were. Do you honestly believe all the changes to voting in the red states has nothing to do with race? That is all at the doing of the republicans. Have all the police shootings of unarmed black men, some of them children, have nothing to do with race? After one of those shootings, listen to Fox and listen to how it is reported. You say liberals are obsessed. Jan Brewer points her finger in the face of the president. Have you seen anyone else do that? Joe Wilson yelled "you lie," at the president. The Kansas speaker of the house cited a bible verse calling for President Obama to be killed, his wife to be widowed, and his children to be orphaned, and pictures of the president and his parents that make them look like monkeys. Being associated with him is like touching a ********. I could go on and on, but will stop with these examples. I wish we didn't have to be obsessed with race, but our first black president has been treated so badly, there is no choice. It's just that a lot of the racist conservatives are still sweeping it under the rug. Just because they don't say it out loud, don't think for one minute that it isn't there.
> Anyone who voted for the aca without reading it is stupid and should be voted out of office. All that is, is an excuse. Republicans have used every excuse in the book to try to get rid of the ACA. Was there anything in it about death panels or pulling the plug on Grandma. NO, but that didn't stop them from telling the lie in order to scare people, scare elderly people into thinking that if they got cancer past a certain age, they would not be taken care of. That garbage was all from republicans. They want you to believe they didn't get to read it, but they also want you to believe they read those lies in it. I am sick of hearing all that same old crap, over and over and over. You can read it yourself, if you don't want to then let it rest for God sake.
> 
> What the US and the 5 other countries are doing is not a treaty.
> ...


----
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> How do you know what Obama thinks? Seems like your dislike for him is showing.


Ya think? It glows in the dark! Some people just don't know when to quit.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> And it was discussed over and over and over in congress so for anyone to say they didn't know what was in it, just shows their own stupidity. The town hall meetings they had where people like Grassley talked about "pulling the plug on Grandma," were done to scare people and to make people hate it, but thank God it passed anyway. Rushbo said if the ACA ended up working, he would leave the country. Wonder if he needs someone to help him pack?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ya think? It glows in the dark! Some people just don't know when to quit.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that liberals are obsessed with race. I've never heard conservatives bring up race every time they're speaking about a black person. Admittedly, there are racist conservatives and racist liberals, but as a group, liberals are absolutely obsessed. They can't even talk about a black person, without mentioning that he's black, and therefore a victim of racism. IMO, that's racism in itself. "Obama is not as black as he's painted by the Repubs'??? Just what is that supposed to mean?
> 
> Whether the aca was modeled after romneycare or any other program, is irrelevant. The congressmen and senators were not given a chance to read it before the vote. How can ANYONE say they're representing their constituents when they're voting for a bill they didn't read. I expect my representative to KNOW what it is, he's/she's voting for. If they don't, they're not representing me. IMO, this was partisan politics, at it's worst. It set the tone for everything that came after.
> 
> ...


So is the Logan Act.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Not really. Do I want to be banned for actually naming? No.


I think we all know who it was. They are the gift that just seems to not stop themselves from giving ad nauseam. Too bad Patty doesn't have her old Raid can around :hunf:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


I am praying for Grace and the whole family.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Judy, I am sooo sorry the news is so bad for that lovely little baby. I feel so sorry for your sister and the family. Poor wee Grace.
> 
> How are the parents accepting this information? It doesn't sound as if your Niece in law can hide her head in the sand with this news.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, the other 2 are doing great


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Reply from my sister just now

"Now they are looking at possible brain infection, has very low temperature, low hesrt rate and bradys - periods of stop breathing -'. Did a spinal tap. Results in 48 hours . Had another seizure"


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Liberals are obsessed with equality for ALL races, many conservatives on the other hand are obsessed with oppression of many races. You need to get your head out of that hole you have buried it in.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Reply from my sister just now
> 
> "Now they are looking at possible brain infection, has very low temperature, low hesrt rate and bradys - periods of stop breathing -'. Did a spinal tap. Results in 48 hours . Had another seizure"


Oh - that is not looking good. So Sad, I guess it is a waiting time. poor wee sweet baby.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


Go Patty! I hope it works!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Reply from my sister just now
> 
> "Now they are looking at possible brain infection, has very low temperature, low hesrt rate and bradys - periods of stop breathing -'. Did a spinal tap. Results in 48 hours . Had another seizure"


Bless baby Grace, her sisters and your whole family during this heart wrenching time, Judy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Reply from my sister just now
> 
> "Now they are looking at possible brain infection, has very low temperature, low hesrt rate and bradys - periods of stop breathing -'. Did a spinal tap. Results in 48 hours . Had another seizure"


Poor Gracie. :-( She has had it tough since she entered this world. I will continue to pray for her and family.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Good luck to Our Gracie.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


I am so sorry the little one is not improving. I hope they can keep her comfortable.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Liberals are obsessed with equality for ALL races, many conservatives on the other hand are obsessed with oppression of many races. You need to get your head out of that hole you have buried it in.


 :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I think another reason liberals emphasize the race issue is because it is still an issue and should not be an unspoken matter until it stops being an issue. The conservative naysaying doesn't cut it. When we don't have "driving while black" being a scary issue, when we don't have the institutionalized racism that has been going on in places like Ferguson MO, when we have a person of color as President and don't have haters come out of the woodwork so obviously because they are racist whatever anyone tries to deny it, then liberals won't have to keep reminding the world that we have some maturing to do and that we are all one race, the human race.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


Oh. I'm so sorry to hear that. It makes me so sad. Do they think the seizures are causing permanent damage? I hope things will resolve themselves. Thanks for keeping us informed.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> There is no recovery from the conditions Grace has. Hydrocephalic and with ectodermal displaysia which encompasses 192 different presentations which can show in any single form, any combination or ALL. They're seeing several and not knowing how many more might show up.
> 
> The shunts don't seem to be doing much good (there are now 3), the ventricles are not reducing in size and anti seizure meds aren't working. This is one very damaged little girl.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think another reason liberals emphasize the race issue is because it is still an issue and should not be an unspoken matter until it stops being an issue. The conservative naysaying doesn't cut it. When we don't have "driving while black" being a scary issue, when we don't have the institutionalized racism that has been going on in places like Ferguson MO, when we have a person of color as President and don't have haters come out of the woodwork so obviously because they are racist whatever anyone tries to deny it, then liberals won't have to keep reminding the world that we have some maturing to do and that we are all one race, the human race.


Well said. When oh when will that happen? I think most of the younger generation are less apt to be racist and then you have the Oklahoma incident and you have to wonder. Of course, they all deny as usual. They deny, their parents deny, the fraternity denies. Nope, not us.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well said. When oh when will that happen? I think most of the younger generation are less apt to be racist and then you have the Oklahoma incident and you have to wonder. Of course, they all deny as usual. They deny, their parents deny, the fraternity denies. Nope, not us.


I just read an article that said the investigation of the fraternity has now spread to UT Austin and a college in Louisiana, and that this song or chant or whatever you want to call it has been around this fraternity for 4 years.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/12/fraternity-investigations-underway-in-texas-louisiana/21152685/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl18%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D626940


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I just read an article that said the investigation of the fraternity has now spread to UT Austin and a college in Louisiana, and that this song or chant or whatever you want to call it has been around this fraternity for 4 years.
> 
> http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/12/fraternity-investigations-underway-in-texas-louisiana/21152685/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl18%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D626940


I would give them the benefit of the doubt and say they aren't all racists, but no one has had the guts to stand up and say no, so they can't be let off the hook.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear the diagnosis. I wish you all peace and love.



jbandsma said:


> There is no recovery from the conditions Grace has. Hydrocephalic and with ectodermal displaysia which encompasses 192 different presentations which can show in any single form, any combination or ALL. They're seeing several and not knowing how many more might show up.
> 
> The shunts don't seem to be doing much good (there are now 3), the ventricles are not reducing in size and anti seizure meds aren't working. This is one very damaged little girl.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> I would give them the benefit of the doubt and say they aren't all racists, but no one has had the guts to stand up and say no, so they can't be let off the hook.


I agree that not all of them might be racists, only the 2 ringleaders were expelled at OU. Someone had the guts to do the video and post it. Highly unlikely it was posted because they thought is was funny, more likely by someone who was disturbed by it, I would think.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



Poor Purl said:


> That's something you should look up; there's a lot of information on that, and somebody here posted a link to a relevant article. You need to realize that the Constitution has had a lot of work, by the Courts and by Congress, since 1789, and unless you've been to law school you don't understand what is meant.
> 
> I have no more time to waste on this; painters are coming tomorrow, and at any rate I'm bored. But please stop preaching as if you understood the law and its history, because all you have is "a little learning" (another expression, but it only goes back to the 18th century).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> So is the Logan Act.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I've signed 12 petitions so far.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: RAID!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think another reason liberals emphasize the race issue is because it is still an issue and should not be an unspoken matter until it stops being an issue. The conservative naysaying doesn't cut it. When we don't have "driving while black" being a scary issue, when we don't have the institutionalized racism that has been going on in places like Ferguson MO, when we have a person of color as President and don't have haters come out of the woodwork so obviously because they are racist whatever anyone tries to deny it, then liberals won't have to keep reminding the world that we have some maturing to do and that we are all one race, the human race.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Promises, promises. You expected something?


He will just lie and SAY the ACA doesn't work. He's not about to give up his lucrative career in hate mongering.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think there's a way to make that point without using that word. Nothing else comes close.


Anything else is sanitizing reality.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> He will just lie and SAY the ACA doesn't work. He's not about to give up his lucrative career in hate mongering.


Right now I want to smack any one calling the ACA a failure.

Because before the ACA, Grace would already be dead and the family so far in debt that their other children wouldn't have much of a future.

Before the ACA the insurance company could have (and most likely would have) dropped coverage for prenatal care when the problem of the hydrocephaly was first diagnosed in utero. If they wanted to be nice they would have covered her until her lifetime cap was reached...which it has about 2 weeks ago. Or would have been her lifetime cap if those still existed.

As it is, they're still going to have some pretty big bills but they won't have been cut off from any kind of help at all. Even plumbers don't make that kind of money.

So don't anyone DARE tell me how awful the passage of the ACA has been.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> He will just lie and SAY the ACA doesn't work. He's not about to give up his lucrative career in hate mongering.


If you're talking about Limbaugh, he doesn't have a lucrative career in hate mongering any more. When his contract comes up for renewal he's being dropped. Too much money has been lost from advertisers pulling out and not just from that show...from the whole network. It's lost almost $10 million a year by keeping Rush on the air.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I state what i think, right out in the open.


I wasn't inferring it was you who reported me KFN. You did not.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> If you're talking about Limbaugh, he doesn't have a lucrative career in hate mongering any more. When his contract comes up for renewal he's being dropped. Too much money has been lost from advertisers pulling out and not just from that show...from the whole network. It's lost almost $10 million a year by keeping Rush on the air.


I understood only some stations were dropping him. Your news is cause for rejoicing.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace continues to have seizures. Meds do not seem to be working.


Dear little mite. I'm saddened to hear this news and my thoughts are with you jbandsma. I sincerely hope there comes a way the medical staff can control these symptoms for Grace so that she can recover and live her life.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Anything else is sanitizing reality.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so glad to hear a personal story of how ACA affects them. It would be terrible to have to waste time worrying about insurance when health concerns are paramount in your mind. May everyone find a way to accept and embrace the future.



jbandsma said:


> Right now I want to smack any one calling the ACA a failure.
> 
> Because before the ACA, Grace would already be dead and the family so far in debt that their other children wouldn't have much of a future.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitification said:


> This is obviously satire, but there are too many absolute truth in it to dismiss.
> 
> An Open Letter to 47 Republican Senators of the United States of America from Irans Hard-Liners
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Satire indeed, but it's too bad our 47 Senators were unable to see how the 'letter' would look to our enemies abroad. I wish they had the intelligence to realize that they have undercut their country. Or is that what they wish to do?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Satire indeed, but it's too bad our 47 Senators were unable to see how the 'letter' would look to our enemies abroad. I wish they had the intelligence to realize that they have undercut their country. Or is that what they wish to do?


Thanks to Will Saletan, Slate. Loved the "letter."
Too bad these senators can't get a grip.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Satire indeed, but it's too bad our 47 Senators were unable to see how the 'letter' would look to our enemies abroad. I wish they had the intelligence to realize that they have undercut their country. Or is that what they wish to do?


Cotton made it clear that undercutting Obama was precisely his intention.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Let's think about this for a moment, Ladies.

On 10 March 2015, the Oklahoma House of Representatives passed House Bill 1125 [PDF] by a 67-24 vote (with ten abstentions). The legislation, authored by State Representative Todd Russ, shifts the issuance of marriage licenses from the state to members of the clergy. Russ explained that the bill was designed to exempt government from facilitating same-sex marriages, saying: 
The point of my legislation is to take the state out of the process and leave marriage in the hands of the clergy. Marriage was historically a religious covenant first and a government-recognized contract second. Under my bill, the state is not allowing or disallowing same-sex marriage. It is simply leaving it up to the clergy.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/okmarriage.asp#DzFZkDpbqgldmmXo.99

Please note, this legislation has not become law but it is indicative of the lengths to which the religious right will go to maintain their ideas. Think of the legal ramifications of this. Would Oklahoma's courts continue to recognize the legalities associated with the marriage contract? What about the rights of those with no religious beliefs? Religious extremists will stop at nothing to maintain their priveleges and to impose their beliefs on others.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Right now I want to smack any one calling the ACA a failure.
> 
> Because before the ACA, Grace would already be dead and the family so far in debt that their other children wouldn't have much of a future.
> 
> ...


Well, smack away. The aca didn't eliminate medical costs. It just shifted the burden to another group of people. That group is not the wealthy, it is the middle class. All of us who had good employer plans lost them, because obama said he was going to tax so-called "cadillac plans". I have personal knowledge of this because we're now paying nearly a third more on premiums and our coverage sucks. A few months ago, my husband had to go to the ER twice and was admitted to the hospital for five days. We're thousands of dollars in debt, without hope of getting out before we retire. Before the aca, we would have paid $50 for each ER visit and $100 for the hospital stay. So, from my perspective, all the aca has done, is shift the burden from others, to me.

Babies like Grace were always taken care of. Yes, we all shared in that burden by paying higher prices. But in case you hadn't noticed, the prices have not gone down, but are continuing to go up. IMO, it's all one big lie for the insurance corporations and the medical corporations to get more money from all of us. The rich get richer and the middle class gets poorer.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I wasn't inferring it was you who reported me KFN. You did not.


Thank you! I just wanted to make it clear that I've never reported anyone on this thread. When I choose to mix it up on this thread, I do that knowing I'll be taking a few hits. I expect that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

This this morning...I guess he's now getting complaints about me updating you on Grace. Because I sure haven't been doing much else since his last nastygram.

"I'm getting complaints about you. Tone it down, whatever you are doing."


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> This this morning...I guess he's now getting complaints about me updating you on Grace. Because I sure haven't been doing much else since his last nastygram.
> 
> "I'm getting complaints about you. Tone it down, whatever you are doing."


I am shocked. The Ostrich must be referring to something else. So many on this forum kvetch about their ailments and ask for prayers. I still say it was the House "N" word that might be the cause. It cannot be Our Gracieee. We need to hear how she is doing. She is ours.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Babies like Grace were always taken care of.


No, they weren't. At least not without crippling debt.

You really want to go back to being dropped by insurance you pay for when you get sick? Want to get dropped by insurance because they find out you used acne medicine as a teen or had been ... but no longer were ... a victim of domestic violence? You don't remember the hospital that threw a baby like Grace out because the mother didn't have insurance? You really want to go back to THAT?


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am shocked. The Ostrich must be referring to something else. So many on this forum kvetch about their ailments and ask for prayers. I still say it was the House "N" word that might be the cause. It cannot be Our Gracieee. We need to hear how she is doing. She is ours.


That's just it...it's the only thing I've been doing. Don't be surprised if I end up disappeared. I told him that maybe he ought to read my posts instead of "whatever you're doing" and tell the cowards to shove it.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> That's just it...it's the only thing I've been doing. Don't be surprised if I end up disappeared. I told him that maybe he ought to read my posts instead of "whatever you're doing" and tell the cowards to shove it.


Let me know if there is anything I can do to help the situation.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> This this morning...I guess he's now getting complaints about me updating you on Grace. Because I sure haven't been doing much else since his last nastygram.
> 
> "I'm getting complaints about you. Tone it down, whatever you are doing."


I'm sorry this is happening. It seems rather vague. Not to mention, plural. I think if people have a problem with what you say, they should speak out. Be specific.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No, they weren't. At least not without crippling debt.
> 
> You really want to go back to being dropped by insurance you pay for when you get sick? Want to get dropped by insurance because they find out you used acne medicine as a teen or had been ... but no longer were ... a victim of domestic violence? You don't remember the hospital that threw a baby like Grace out because the mother didn't have insurance? You really want to go back to THAT?


You're talking to someone who had cancer, and didn't get dropped. My cancer treatments (surgery, chemo, daily IVs, and LOTS and LOTS of tests cost me around $500. So, you won't convince me that the aca is better. I'd like to go back to that.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> That's just it...it's the only thing I've been doing. Don't be surprised if I end up disappeared. I told him that maybe he ought to read my posts instead of "whatever you're doing" and tell the cowards to shove it.


I probably would have worded it a little more nicely, but other than that, I agree.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I probably would have worded it a little more nicely, but other than that, I agree.


I could have worded it a lot LESS nicely, too.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're talking to someone who had cancer, and didn't get dropped. My cancer treatments (surgery, chemo, daily IVs, and LOTS and LOTS of tests cost me around $500. So, you won't convince me that the aca is better. I'd like to go back to that.


You were lucky...my sister (the grandmother of Grace) watched her husband get dropped when he developed leukemia. It got to the point where the doctors wouldn't even treat him without cash in advance and the hospital sent a 6 week (WEEK) past due payment to collections. And there are a lot more incidents like that than there are like yours.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

For our two Arizona friends - I just posted a thread on'Other crafts"

and hope you will look at it ladies. They are in honor of Dame and Green.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-325365-2.html#7017934

There are two more threads on that section - links shown under my posts.

I hope you enjoy them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> That's just it...it's the only thing I've been doing. Don't be surprised if I end up disappeared. I told him that maybe he ought to read my posts instead of "whatever you're doing" and tell the cowards to shove it.


I'm sure that the ringleader of the rats has nothing better to do with her time. Looks like she set you up to be reported everyday over a post made days ago. You may want to send Admin a PM explaining that you got his first warning and haven't done anything more to warrant complaints. If you ask he may even delete the post so the rats will have nothing to [email protected] about.

Still praying for little Grace.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm sure that the ringleader of the rats has nothing better to do with her time. Looks like she set you up to be reported everyday over a post made days ago. You may want to send Admin a PM explaining that you got his first warning and haven't done anything more to warrant complaints. If you ask he may even delete the post so the rats will have nothing to [email protected] about.
> 
> Still praying for little Grace.


Here's what I replied to him.

"Maybe you should take a look at my posts since your last nastygram. The only damned thing I have been doing is keeping my friends updated on my great-niece, Grace, who is very likely to be dead shortly.

Tell the f-in cowards to shove it."


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> For our two Arizona friends - I just posted a thread on'Other crafts"
> 
> and hope you will look at it ladies. They are in honor of Dame and Green.
> 
> ...


Your work is amazing and impressive, Designer. You seem to have captured the spirit of the southwest/Native American style.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I just wanted to make it clear that I've never reported anyone on this thread. When I choose to mix it up on this thread, I do that knowing I'll be taking a few hits. I expect that.


I don't doubt the truth of the above. You call it like you see it and you don't go behind people's backs. I don't either but some of our 'friends' report everyone for every thing'. Actually I think they 'threaten to report' more often than they do report'. I just ignored them.

I do think that admin could be more specific as it is hard to know what is 'allowed' and what isn't. Some of it is obvious but some of it is hard to figure.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> For our two Arizona friends - I just posted a thread on'Other crafts"
> 
> and hope you will look at it ladies. They are in honor of Dame and Green.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, Shirley. I never get tired of looking at your art. Your talents are many and inspiring.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> You were lucky...my sister (the grandmother of Grace) watched her husband get dropped when he developed leukemia. It got to the point where the doctors wouldn't even treat him without cash in advance and the hospital sent a 6 week (WEEK) past due payment to collections. And there are a lot more incidents like that than there are like yours.


I know that I was lucky but we're not anymore. For the first time in our lives, we've $thousands and $thousands in medical bills. I don't know how we'll pay them, or how long it will take. I just don't go to the doctor anymore, because if they found something, we'd be bankrupted. So, no one can convince me that the aca has improved things.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm sure that the ringleader of the rats has nothing better to do with her time. Looks like she set you up to be reported everyday over a post made days ago. You may want to send Admin a PM explaining that you got his first warning and haven't done anything more to warrant complaints. If you ask he may even delete the post so the rats will have nothing to [email protected] about.
> 
> Still praying for little Grace.


I think, I was set up as well. As the lone dissenting voice, I was made to look guilty.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think, I was set up as well. As the lone dissenting voice, I was made to look guilty.


No, you WEREN'T the only one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I suggest they read the threads instead of just reacting to someone's opinion.

I guess our choice is to complain about everything we find offensive, or we all find a new place to go.

I truthfully have seen nothing offensive in any your texts. That means I have NO IDEA what may be offensive. I don't see an upside.



jbandsma said:


> This this morning...I guess he's now getting complaints about me updating you on Grace. Because I sure haven't been doing much else since his last nastygram.
> 
> "I'm getting complaints about you. Tone it down, whatever you are doing."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> No, they weren't. At least not without crippling debt.
> 
> You really want to go back to being dropped by insurance you pay for when you get sick? Want to get dropped by insurance because they find out you used acne medicine as a teen or had been ... but no longer were ... a victim of domestic violence? You don't remember the hospital that threw a baby like Grace out because the mother didn't have insurance? You really want to go back to THAT?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Similar to what I replied. I don't like this routine of secret unspecified threats. How are the rest of us to know what is allowed?



jbandsma said:


> That's just it...it's the only thing I've been doing. Don't be surprised if I end up disappeared. I told him that maybe he ought to read my posts instead of "whatever you're doing" and tell the cowards to shove it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For everyone's benefit.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry this is happening. It seems rather vague. Not to mention, plural. I think if people have a problem with what you say, they should speak out. Be specific.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I could have worded it a lot LESS nicely, too.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shirley, you are a true artist interpreting your vision in many media. Thank you for inspiring us in all you do.



Designer1234 said:


> For our two Arizona friends - I just posted a thread on'Other crafts"
> 
> and hope you will look at it ladies. They are in honor of Dame and Green.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad you could figure it out. I was thoroughly confused.



BrattyPatty said:


> I'm sure that the ringleader of the rats has nothing better to do with her time. Looks like she set you up to be reported everyday over a post made days ago. You may want to send Admin a PM explaining that you got his first warning and haven't done anything more to warrant complaints. If you ask he may even delete the post so the rats will have nothing to [email protected] about.
> 
> Still praying for little Grace.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judy, I'm sorry you have to deal with this foolishness at such a stressful time. You know who your friends are.



jbandsma said:


> Here's what I replied to him.
> 
> "Maybe you should take a look at my posts since your last nastygram. The only damned thing I have been doing is keeping my friends updated on my great-niece, Grace, who is very likely to be dead shortly.
> 
> Tell the f-in cowards to shove it."


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No, you WEREN'T the only one.


I must have missed something. I didn't see anyone else say anything. If I have time, I'll go back. I'm trying to get Max to take a nap. But I doubt I'll have success.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I must have missed something. I didn't see anyone else say anything. If I have time, I'll go back. I'm trying to get Max to take a nap. But I doubt I'll have success.


Good luck. The other post is gone. Gee, I wonder how THAT happened.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> This this morning...I guess he's now getting complaints about me updating you on Grace. Because I sure haven't been doing much else since his last nastygram.
> 
> "I'm getting complaints about you. Tone it down, whatever you are doing."


Holy cr*p, this is pure nonsense. I would be asking what the specific complaint is about.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Good luck. The other post is gone. Gee, I wonder how THAT happened.


Well, I just wasted a half hour trying to find it. Nobody even copied it.

Somebody, pm me and tell me who it was. Now, I'm mad at myself for being so defensive. But I'd thought I was the lone dissenter, which would have made me the lead suspect.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Holy cr*p, this is pure nonsense. I would be asking what the specific complaint is about.


Evidently he doesn't even know since he says "whatever you're doing". Means to me that he has absolutely no idea except that people are complaining about me...probably with something like "you really have to get rid of this troublemaker" with no specifics attached.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I just wanted to make it clear that I've never reported anyone on this thread. When I choose to mix it up on this thread, I do that knowing I'll be taking a few hits. I expect that.


KFN, I don't think any of us thought it was you, you may stir the pot with some of your opinions, but I would never think you would contact admin to complain. You have always faced everything head on!!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing, Shirley. I never get tired of looking at your art. Your talents are many and inspiring.


Thanks Neb. I really appreciate. I found another disc and it seemed the right time to post in honor of the get together. Wish it could have been all of us.

How is your dil doing? still hanging in there, I hope. Don't get too tired. You have a long road ahead for you and your family, but what a gift!! Prayers are with you everyday.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I just wasted a half hour trying to find it. Nobody even copied it.
> 
> Somebody, pm me and tell me who it was. Now, I'm mad at myself for being so defensive. But I'd thought I was the lone dissenter, which would have made me the lead suspect.


It wasn't as big or as emphatic as yours and I even just looked at it and passed it by...not thinking any thing about it. There are people who get their knickers in a serious twist if you even allude to certain words, let alone spell them out. It was not a name I recognized and did not take note of it. Didn't mean anything to me.

But I have to admit when you so vehemently defended yourself without need, I did wonder.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter From Nebraska...with all that's going on I have forgotten that you must have some of the same concerns about the expected multiples that our family is now having.

Hoping everything is going well for your family.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

For all the Moms and Grandmas out there, I have a 4 year old grandson who is the pickiest eater I have ever encountered. He eats mac & cheese, bacon, raw carrots, sweet and dill pickles, most any fresh fruit, although not fond of oranges. He drinks lots of juice and likes string cheese, white only. He can not be bribed to try something new. He loves Thomas the train and if he wants a new engine for his collection and you say ok, then you have to try just one bite of whatever is on his plate, he will say, no I don't want that train. The only thing they have found that he will bargain for is his cartoon [Thomas the train] before going to bed, so the rule has been you have to try one bite of something on your plate or no cartoon before going to bed. He put a piece of cooked carrot in his mouth and said it hurt his mouth, and he couldn't chew it. Then one night, they had baked beans and he himself said he would try those. OK Tucker, great. He put one bean in his mouth and then refused to chew it. He got sent to bed early and spit it out in bed. When he first had his bottle taken away he refused to drink milk from a glass. Now that he is in pre school, he has started drinking milk again, must be peer pressure. If you left him to sit at the table until he took a bite of something, he would sit there till he fell asleep and fell off the chair. He is a very determined young man. Tucker, come help me fix dinner, you know if you help make it, you will eat it. Wrong, he will just say no thank you. His Dr is not worried. She said he won't be one of those kids who get talked into anything by other kids, cause he won't try anything. He is the sweetest little guy and so much fun. His sister was picky at first too, but would always try a bite of something new. I have always wondered what makes him want to try something new. Why would he take a bite of a dill pickle, but not even want to try a french fry. Now last week he tried a bite of cheesy mashed potatoes which he swallowed and when his Mom and he were at the store today she asked him what he would like to try for dinner tonight and he said cheesy mashed potatoes, so there might be hope, or they are just the lesser of two evils. Not sure what he is thinking.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Any one like chicken fajitas???

Try this, Chilis copycat chicken fajita nachos, sounds yummy

http://www.food.com/recipe/chicken-enchilada-soup-chilis-copycat-511445


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> It wasn't as big or as emphatic as yours and I even just looked at it and passed it by...not thinking any thing about it. There are people who get their knickers in a serious twist if you even allude to certain words.
> 
> I guess it is something I was taught - in no uncertain terms when I was young. I never have liked that type of conversation, but I am a different generation than a lot of people here.
> I admit I hate that word, but that doesn't ,mean I don't think you should be able to say what you want t if that is your decision. I just don't like to give those who are trying to make trouble for us any ammunition. I do know however that certain things are a no no - and I can assure you that every word said on here is being monitored by at least one of our acquaintances who loves to 'report' or threaten to report. Ask me how I know. "
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Neb. I really appreciate. I found another disc and it seemed the right time to post in honor of the get together. Wish it could have been all of us.
> 
> How is your dil doing? still hanging in there, I hope. Don't get too tired. You have a long road ahead for you and your family, but what a gift!! Prayers are with you everyday.


Dil hit 22 weeks yesterday. We lost the triplets at 22 weeks, 5 days. So I'll be glad when we get past this week. Bad memories. 

Thank you for keeping us in your prayers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> It wasn't as big or as emphatic as yours and I even just looked at it and passed it by...not thinking any thing about it. There are people who get their knickers in a serious twist if you even allude to certain words, let alone spell them out. It was not a name I recognized and did not take note of it. Didn't mean anything to me.
> 
> But I have to admit when you so vehemently defended yourself without need, I did wonder.


I'd assumed that I was the only one who'd complained about it. Therefore, everyone thought I was me. I apologize. The reason it offended me so, is that I have black family members that are very dear to me. And in fact, my dear sweet Max (who is NOT taking a nap) is in fact biracial.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Knitter From Nebraska...with all that's going on I have forgotten that you must have some of the same concerns about the expected multiples that our family is now having.
> 
> Hoping everything is going well for your family.


Thank you! Dil is going to the doctor this afternoon. I expect to hear good news as all has been good up to now. She lost premature triplets almost five years ago (and has had three miscarriages), so we're praying for a different outcome this time.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I suggest they read the threads instead of just reacting to someone's opinion.
> 
> I guess our choice is to complain about everything we find offensive, or we all find a new place to go.
> 
> I truthfully have seen nothing offensive in any your texts. That means I have NO IDEA what may be offensive. I don't see an upside.


I hope that admin takes into consideration who is complaining - I bet I could tell you right now. I know I haven't reported anyone because I won't follow those who are tattletales and are such babies.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! Dil is going to the doctor this afternoon. I expect to hear good news as all has been good up to now. She lost premature triplets almost five years ago (and has had three miscarriages), so we're praying for a different outcome this time.


I certainly hope for a good outcome.

Our niece and her wife in Holland had an extremely premature baby...he was due July 18 and born May 1 weighing less than 1.5 lbs. He'll be 2 in May and hitting all his milestones. Here's hoping the doctors will do as well for your grands...maybe with more maturity to give them a better head start.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> For all the Moms and Grandmas out there, I have a 4 year old grandson who is the pickiest eater I have ever encountered. He eats mac & cheese, bacon, raw carrots, sweet and dill pickles, most any fresh fruit, although not fond of oranges. He drinks lots of juice and likes string cheese, white only. He can not be bribed to try something new. He loves Thomas the train and if he wants a new engine for his collection and you say ok, then you have to try just one bite of whatever is on his plate, he will say, no I don't want that train. The only thing they have found that he will bargain for is his cartoon [Thomas the train] before going to bed, so the rule has been you have to try one bite of something on your plate or no cartoon before going to bed. He put a piece of cooked carrot in his mouth and said it hurt his mouth, and he couldn't chew it. Then one night, they had baked beans and he himself said he would try those. OK Tucker, great. He put one bean in his mouth and then refused to chew it. He got sent to bed early and spit it out in bed. When he first had his bottle taken away he refused to drink milk from a glass. Now that he is in pre school, he has started drinking milk again, must be peer pressure. If you left him to sit at the table until he took a bite of something, he would sit there till he fell asleep and fell off the chair. He is a very determined young man. Tucker, come help me fix dinner, you know if you help make it, you will eat it. Wrong, he will just say no thank you. His Dr is not worried. She said he won't be one of those kids who get talked into anything by other kids, cause he won't try anything. He is the sweetest little guy and so much fun. His sister was picky at first too, but would always try a bite of something new. I have always wondered what makes him want to try something new. Why would he take a bite of a dill pickle, but not even want to try a french fry. Now last week he tried a bite of cheesy mashed potatoes which he swallowed and when his Mom and he were at the store today she asked him what he would like to try for dinner tonight and he said cheesy mashed potatoes, so there might be hope, or they are just the lesser of two evils. Not sure what he is thinking.


My oldest grandson would only eat chicken fingers and chocolate covered raisens. They tried everything. Finally, the doctor recommended "food therapy". Who would have thought, that there'd be such a thing? But it worked. Dil makes him eat whatever they're eating. So far, so good. And he's finally gaining weight.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> such babies.


OMG, such an accurate description.!!!!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Any one like chicken fajitas???
> 
> Try this, Chilis copycat chicken fajita nachos, sounds yummy
> 
> http://www.food.com/recipe/chicken-enchilada-soup-chilis-copycat-511445


That sounds good! But I've got a super easy recipe for enchilada soup and I love it.

1 can of chicken breast (like Swanson's)
2 cans of Rotel
1 packet of enchilada seasoning mix
1 can of Fiesta corn
Water

Heat and eat! Serve with tortilla chips. Yum! Easiest ever.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I certainly hope for a good outcome.
> 
> Our niece and her wife in Holland had an extremely premature baby...he was due July 18 and born May 1 weighing less than 1.5 lbs. He'll be 2 in May and hitting all his milestones. Here's hoping the doctors will do as well for your grands...maybe with more maturity to give them a better head start.


The doctor is planning a caesarian 6 weeks before their due date. He says, with quads, after 34 weeks, chance of death or other problems rises.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> KFN, I don't think any of us thought it was you, you may stir the pot with some of your opinions, but I would never think you would contact admin to complain. You have always faced everything head on!!!


I think that is the main reason the lurkers come around, hoping they can find something to complain about and try to get someone kicked off.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> No, you WEREN'T the only one.


I was another one - so don't believe you are the only one who can disagree with things said by members of this group. Judy is my friend, as are you - I don't always agree andsay so but those who report anyone are trying to have us disbarred or whatever you call it. I try not to take it personally. I definitely don't if they are on this thread. It was enough to deal with my 'enemies' rather than take issue with my 'friends.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think that is the main reason the lurkers come around, hoping they can find something to complain about and try to get someone kicked off.


I think you hit the bullseye on that one.

Shame they don't have something productive to do with their time, isn't it?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I think you hit the bullseye on that one.
> 
> Shame they don't have something productive to do with their time, isn't it?


Shame they think the freedom of speech should only apply to them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I think you hit the bullseye on that one.
> 
> Shame they don't have something productive to do with their time, isn't it?


I agree -


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My oldest grandson would only eat chicken fingers and chocolate covered raisens. They tried everything. Finally, the doctor recommended "food therapy". Who would have thought, that there'd be such a thing? But it worked. Dil makes him eat whatever they're eating. So far, so good. And he's finally gaining weight.


Thank you. I had never heard of food therapy. Googled it and found lots of interesting reading for them. Maybe just some different approaches will help. Thanks again.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Grace passed the night with no more seizures so whatever they are now using seems to be working. It will still be another 24 hours before they find out if it is an infection. I don't understand why it takes that long and why, if they suspect a serious infection, they haven't started at least a broad spectrum antibiotic.

Unless, of course, they are suspecting MRSA. I'm afraid that just might be the case.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace passed the night with no more seizures so whatever they are now using seems to be working. It will still be another 24 hours before they find out if it is an infection. I don't understand why it takes that long and why, if they suspect a serious infection, they haven't started at least a broad spectrum antibiotic.
> 
> Unless, of course, they are suspecting MRSA. I'm afraid that just might be the case.


I saw the words "Grace passed" and my heart fell to the floor. So nice to hear she had a night with no seizures. Has she been running a high fever (or a low one) that might accompany some type of infection?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I saw the words "Grace passed" and my heart fell to the floor. So nice to hear she had a night with no seizures. Has she been running a high fever (or a low one) that might accompany some type of infection?


No, actually her temp has been below normal, heart rate below normal, breathing stopping and starting. An infection in the brain could be causing all of those.

I didn't think about the words at the beginning of the sentence because I don't use euphemisms for death. If she had died, my post would have stated just that.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry this is happening. It seems rather vague. Not to mention, plural. I think if people have a problem with what you say, they should speak out. Be specific.


Not everybody has the guts you do to say it as you see it and let the chips fall where they may. There are tattletales who run to mama and papa admin and whine. Seems as if they whine enough to get their way, which is a shame.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> deleted the rest of the comment as not relevant to my comment
> 
> I do wish however, there were some guidelines set out so that at least we know what is not allowed.


I belong to my local Freecycle Network. When you join you get an e-mail with the rules and regulations. About every 6 months there is an update on one of the digests reminding everybody of the rules. Also, the reasons one can be dropped from the network are clearly stated. Makes life much more sensible when you know the rules of the game you are playing.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Dil hit 22 weeks yesterday. We lost the triplets at 22 weeks, 5 days. So I'll be glad when we get past this week. Bad memories.
> 
> Thank you for keeping us in your prayers.


Hope you clear the sad milestone with flying colors and your DIL and her babies continue to thrive. Prayers and best wishes.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The doctor is planning a caesarian 6 weeks before their due date. He says, with quads, after 34 weeks, chance of death or other problems rises.


My cousin's quads nieces and nephew are retirement age now. Hope your grandbabies are as healthy as Judy, Jean, Janet and Jack have been all these years.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NEB:I posted somewhere that I was one who complained about the post - I have pm'd you to say something. I hate that word and have said so. I will check my posts. I know I typed it - I hope it didn't end up in outer space by forgetting to send it. Shirley


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitification said:


> But at a slower rate than before.


And babies with those same conditions were NOT being taken care of in the same way when insurance companies could refuse to insure them.

In fact, right before the ACA kicked in fully, several insurance companies fixed their problem of being able to deny children for pre-existing conditions by simply refusing to cover ANY children.

Grace's medical bills are already over a million when you include her share of triplet delivery.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitification said:


> Unfortunately, some on the Right just don't take into consideration people's suffering, or live in denial about the reality of it.
> 
> It's just a sidenote relatively unimportant next to the
> "it just shifted the burden" talking point.


What we need is a single payer system. Which we already have in Medicare and only need to expand to everyone. The buy in for those under SS age is very low, Medicare's operating expenses are only about 2% against the 25% to 40% of insurance companies. It would still allow individuals to purchase other insurance if they wanted to but everybody could be covered.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> What we need is a single payer system. Which we already have in Medicare and only need to expand to everyone. The buy in for those under SS age is very low, Medicare's operating expenses are only about 2% against the 25% to 40% of insurance companies. It would still allow individuals to purchase other insurance if they wanted to but everybody could be covered.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :
Of course we need single-payer just like the rest of the civilized world! 
And I don't understand why "those" people harp about the "awful ACA" and never criticize the "awful" health insurance companies.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitification said:


> And that's at the MUCH lower negotiated insurance rate I'm guessing?
> 
> I guess people like Grace and her parents are unimportant next to the desire to stick it to the greedy corporations.
> 
> ...


Isn't it hard to fathom why so many people of the religious right don't know what the morally responsible things to do are?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitification said:


> No, we were already paying for the medical bills of the un and under insured. They would claim bankruptcy and we would pay the bills and often the costs were MUCH MUCH higher than they would be charging insurance companies.
> 
> What the ACA is doing is making it LESS expensive for us to pay for the medical costs of the needy by making sure they're insured and we're now paying only, for example 1000 dollars for an arm cast instead of 15,000.
> 
> And many of the uninsured were not uninsured because they couldn't afford insurance, but because of being denied due things like pre-existing conditions. Now they won't risk bankruptcy (our money), but can get the healthcare they couldn't before.


Excellent points.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> What we need is a single payer system. Which we already have in Medicare and only need to expand to everyone. The buy in for those under SS age is very low, Medicare's operating expenses are only about 2% against the 25% to 40% of insurance companies. It would still allow individuals to purchase other insurance if they wanted to but everybody could be covered.


Yes, yes yes.

Obama had to compromise on the ACA because big insurance and the right wing of congress would never, ever go for single payer. They would have lost too much money.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitification said:


> No, we were already paying for the medical bills of the un and under insured. They would claim bankruptcy and we would pay the bills and often the costs were MUCH MUCH higher than they would be charging insurance companies.
> 
> What the ACA is doing is making it LESS expensive for us to pay for the medical costs of the needy by making sure they're insured and we're now paying only, for example 1000 dollars for an arm cast instead of 15,000.
> 
> And many of the uninsured were not uninsured because they couldn't afford insurance, but because of being denied due things like pre-existing conditions. Now they won't risk bankruptcy (our money), but can get the healthcare they couldn't before.


And some illnesses will be prevented and some people will not have to die, because they didn't have money to go see a Dr. Are things still out of control. Of course they are. People are still paying 10.00 for an aspirin Crazy.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitification said:


> Unfortunately, some on the Right just don't take into consideration people's suffering, or live in denial about the reality of it.
> 
> It's just a sidenote relatively unimportant next to the
> "it just shifted the burden" talking point.


Some people simply don't think about other peoples suffering as it doesn't affect them. They don't think about racism as it is not in their neighborhood and doesn't affect them personally. They don't think about poor people as needing help as they think everyone should be able to help themselves. Remember Romney and how out of touch he was with the real world. I think Rudy Giuliani is the same way. People who deny racism exists don't believe a young black man is treated any different by the police. They believe they are treated differently, it is because of the way they act and they bring it on themselves. Is it a lack of compassion or empathy for others? i don't know.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :
> Of course we need single-payer just like the rest of the civilized world!
> And I don't understand why "those" people harp about the "awful ACA" and never criticize the "awful" health insurance companies.


Ask anyone who has medicare how they feel about it.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ask anyone who has medicare how they feel about it.


From 1997 to 2011 I had no insurance and couldn't get any for ANY price. We had insurance but the company changed the rules on what you could use and when. It wasn't until I collapsed at the coliseum and an ambulance was called that we learned that we were no longer permitted to use emergency services without prior permission unless we were bleeding profusely, in danger of bleeding to death or totally unresponsive. The company cancelled me and nobody would allow me to get a policy after that.

Almost 15 years with COPD and no access to regular medical care until I got medicare. I mainly relied on drug studies for medicines and care for those years.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I watched Ed Schultz today and he was talking to Bernie Sanders about social security. There have been quite a few speakers lately and the one today was from The Business Round Table, he was a former Michigan Governor I believe. As heads of large corporations these guys will receive about $88,000 a month in their retirement package, and their reason for speaking before congress is to encourage them to cut social security and medicare in order to cut taxes for big corporations. As the ss trust fund is now there is enough money to pay out for 18 years. Bernie's plan which raises the cap would add about $65 per month to benefits and it also changes how the cost of living is figured. These speakers are there now because the republicans control the house and senate and they have started this process and plan on taking the presidency in 2016 and will then carry out their plan. I don't think they will or can stop it all of a sudden, but the cuts will continue till it is fazed out. As I have stated before ss disability is already in trouble and will run out of money by 2016. They can no longer reallocate money from the retirement account, the new rule just put into effect by the house republicans. I will be contacting my triple threat [2 senators & 1 rep] which won't make any difference, as they don't vote my wishes. I am also writing to our local paper again. 
It would certainly be wonderful if everyone who retired had a 401k or savings or an inheritance or a pension that the corp didn't take away from them, to help them in retirement, but not everyone does. Many people like my sister have ss and that is all she has. The way the economy is now I expect there to be more people like that in the future. We need to be very vocal.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Grace passed the night with no more seizures so whatever they are now using seems to be working. It will still be another 24 hours before they find out if it is an infection. I don't understand why it takes that long and why, if they suspect a serious infection, they haven't started at least a broad spectrum antibiotic.
> 
> Unless, of course, they are suspecting MRSA. I'm afraid that just might be the case.


I'm glad to hear that. One of the reasons it takes so long for test results is that they have to grow cultures of the blood, urine and cerebral spinal fluid. They probably want to hold off on giving the strongest antibiotics because the bacteria can become resistant. I hope it isn't MRSA. She's fighting enough already. My heart aches for her and her family. I'm praying for a miracle and a healing. If that can't happen, then I pray that things will settle down and she won't be suffering. People learn to live with disabilities and families learn to cope. I pray for only the best for Grace. She's been in my thoughts a lot.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not everybody has the guts you do to say it as you see it and let the chips fall where they may. There are tattletales who run to mama and papa admin and whine. Seems as if they whine enough to get their way, which is a shame.


I agree.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> What we need is a single payer system. Which we already have in Medicare and only need to expand to everyone. The buy in for those under SS age is very low, Medicare's operating expenses are only about 2% against the 25% to 40% of insurance companies. It would still allow individuals to purchase other insurance if they wanted to but everybody could be covered.


It works well for us.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hope you clear the sad milestone with flying colors and your DIL and her babies continue to thrive. Prayers and best wishes.


Thank you, Marilyn! 
I'm having a tough time, remembering the horrible time we went through. I wonder what our lives would have been like with Dexter, Miles and Cooper. Every year on Christmas and their birthday, I knit toys for their grave. It'll be harder now, with four more babies. Its almost, like I don't want to think about them, because it'll jinx these new babies. I know, it's crazy. I'm just tired and sad. Thank you for your prayers.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

By the way, I haven't seen Eve around lately, or is it just my imagination and poor memory?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My cousin's quads nieces and nephew are retirement age now. Hope your grandbabies are as healthy as Judy, Jean, Janet and Jack have been all these years.


Oh, I hope so!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> NEB:I posted somewhere that I was one who complained about the post - I have pm'd you to say something. I hate that word and have said so. I will check my posts. I know I typed it - I hope it didn't end up in outer space by forgetting to send it. Shirley


But Shirley, we all know that you didn't report it to admin. Thank you for making me feel better. I much appreciate it. I know that I frustrate you to no end, but that you'll always be my friend. Thank you!


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> By the way, I haven't seen Eve around lately, or is it just my imagination and poor memory?


She last posted on May 7, unusually long time for her to go without a post.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> From 1997 to 2011 I had no insurance and couldn't get any for ANY price. We had insurance but the company changed the rules on what you could use and when. It wasn't until I collapsed at the coliseum and an ambulance was called that we learned that we were no longer permitted to use emergency services without prior permission unless we were bleeding profusely, in danger of bleeding to death or totally unresponsive. The company cancelled me and nobody would allow me to get a policy after that.
> 
> Almost 15 years with COPD and no access to regular medical care until I got medicare. I mainly relied on drug studies for medicines and care for those years.


And people still complain about the ACA. How awful for you to be without for that long. I am so sorry you went through that he--, as I am sure that is what it was.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :
> Of course we need single-payer just like the rest of the civilized world!
> And I don't understand why "those" people harp about the "awful ACA" and never criticize the "awful" health insurance companies.


I complain about the insurance companies all of the time. They're a big part of the reason healthcare has gotten so expensive. I think we need to get corporations out of healthcare altogether.

That said, I question the validity of being able to afford a single payer system. Over 43% of Americans pay NO federal income taxes. In Canada, the number is closer to 33%. How would 56% of us be able to afford healthcare for all?

Here's an article written by a Canadian saying that their healthcare system as it stands, is unsustainable. If 2/3 of Canadians cannot afford healthcare for all, then little over half of Americans aren't going to be able to pay for it either.

Here's a link to the article that explains why the Canadian system must change. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/natasha-macdonalddupuis/the-future-of-canadian-healthcare_b_4429892.html

Here's the source of the numbers I used. The numbers are outdated, but that's what came up when I googled and I'm too tired to search further.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2011/04/30/18087141.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of-americans-dont-pay-federal-income-tax-2013-9

Here's an interesting article that breaks down WHO doesn't pay federal income taxes. It's not all poor people, as we know.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/29/pf/taxes/who-doesnt-pay-federal-income-taxes/

I think that healthcare costs as they stand are unsustainable for any country, unless were willing to knock off all the baby boomers. I jest. That's not a solution. Something needs to be done to break up the monopolies that corporations have made of our healthcare system. If we don't find real ways to reduce costs, all of our resources will end up going towards healthcare.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How would 56% of us be able to afford healthcare for all?


We change the system to tax the wealthy corporations fairly.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I just heard on the news that Dowling Catholic High School, in West Des Moines had sent out a letter concerning the dress code for some event that was going on. The letter instructed gentlemen to wear dress pants, dress shoes, shirts and ties, with jackets optional. Be classy, the instructions read, saying no facial hair and no earrings were allowed for the boys. The girls were told, to Think modesty. Details included guidelines for dress/skirt hemlines, shoes, and tops that cover shoulders and draw attention to your face, not your chest.

Your outfit should attract attention to your achievements, not your body. Choose an outfit that is pretty enough to show you are a woman and covered enough to show you are a lady, the letter said.

If I received a letter like that or my daughter did I would be pi$$ed. One senior said it implies that you have to be pretty to be a woman.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :
> Of course we need single-payer just like the rest of the civilized world!
> And I don't understand why "those" people harp about the "awful ACA" and never criticize the "awful" health insurance companies.


I don't understand that either. When the insurance company says no to what the Dr orders, how is that good for us.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Isn't it hard to fathom why so many people of the religious right don't know what the morally responsible things to do are?


Big corporations can be included in that too. Give me my huge bonus, but cut social security and medicare.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Isn't it hard to fathom why so many people of the religious right don't know what the morally responsible things to do are?


A lot of people on the religious right (myself included) feel that the morally responsible thing to do is to provide support for ourselves and our families AND to give and give until we have nothing else to give, to those in need. We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Just read about Cyclone Pam somewhere in Australia. I have no sense of geography but Australian islands (?) were badly hit. I hope our friends from OZ are far from the Cyclone.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> We change the system to tax the wealthy corporations fairly.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> I watched Ed Schultz today and he was talking to Bernie Sanders about social security. There have been quite a few speakers lately and the one today was from The Business Round Table, he was a former Michigan Governor I believe. As heads of large corporations these guys will receive about $88,000 a month in their retirement package, and their reason for speaking before congress is to encourage them to cut social security and medicare in order to cut taxes for big corporations. As the ss trust fund is now there is enough money to pay out for 18 years. Bernie's plan which raises the cap would add about $65 per month to benefits and it also changes how the cost of living is figured. These speakers are there now because the republicans control the house and senate and they have started this process and plan on taking the presidency in 2016 and will then carry out their plan. I don't think they will or can stop it all of a sudden, but the cuts will continue till it is fazed out. As I have stated before ss disability is already in trouble and will run out of money by 2016. They can no longer reallocate money from the retirement account, the new rule just put into effect by the house republicans. I will be contacting my triple threat [2 senators & 1 rep] which won't make any difference, as they don't vote my wishes. I am also writing to our local paper again.
> It would certainly be wonderful if everyone who retired had a 401k or savings or an inheritance or a pension that the corp didn't take away from them, to help them in retirement, but not everyone does. Many people like my sister have ss and that is all she has. The way the economy is now I expect there to be more people like that in the future. We need to be very vocal.


I think you're right. I think they want to cut SS and eventually phase it out. They act like they're doing us a favor, when we've been paying for it, our whole lives. If we had invested those dollars, we'd retire as millionaires. Instead, we'll be paupers. I attended a town hall meeting with one of our senators a couple of years ago. All he wanted to talk about was the need to cut SS. He had a big pie chart of government expenditures and tried to convince everyone that the only thing we could cut was SS. They won't stop until we have nothing.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> We change the system to tax the wealthy corporations fairly.


Sounds good to me but I don't think it'll ever happen. I'm more of a realist, than an idealist.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> I just heard on the news that Dowling Catholic High School, in West Des Moines had sent out a letter concerning the dress code for some event that was going on. The letter instructed gentlemen to wear dress pants, dress shoes, shirts and ties, with jackets optional. Be classy, the instructions read, saying no facial hair and no earrings were allowed for the boys. The girls were told, to Think modesty. Details included guidelines for dress/skirt hemlines, shoes, and tops that cover shoulders and draw attention to your face, not your chest.
> 
> Your outfit should attract attention to your achievements, not your body. Choose an outfit that is pretty enough to show you are a woman and covered enough to show you are a lady, the letter said.
> 
> If I received a letter like that or my daughter did I would be pi$$ed. One senior said it implies that you have to be pretty to be a woman.


I'm just wondering what world they live in.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A lot of people on the religious right (myself included) feel that the morally responsible thing to do is to provide support for ourselves and our families AND to give and give until we have nothing else to give, to those in need. We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.


People working 40 hrs or more a week should be making a living wage. They have a job or maybe 2 or 3 jobs and can't feed their families without food stamps. Not right. I think it is morally reprehensible for big corporations and people who make a million dollars to not pay any federal income taxe. I think it is morally reprehensible for the CEO of a large corporation who will retire with about $88,000 a month to want to cut social security for some one who will be receiving about $1,000 a month. 
If we relied on people to take care of each other, many people would not be taken care of. Many people talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. I agree, that people are better off with opportunity, but that opportunity has to be available and when all we hear form the right in congress is to cut, cut, cut, there is less opportunity available. What I hear from the right is those that need that hand up, or that opportunity, or a little help with food stamps, those are the worthless lazy people and it is their own fault they are where they are. FaceBook is full of people complaining about the takers, just like the right in Washington complaining about the takers, the same ones who claim to be the religious right. Hypocrite is the word I use for those in Washington.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A lot of people on the religious right (myself included) feel that the morally responsible thing to do is to provide support for ourselves and our families AND to give and give until we have nothing else to give, to those in need. We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.


I think you are rationalizing. Did Jesus ever say it's morally reprehensible to take from one group to give to another? Give me a break! Did he ever say that governments should not give to people in need? Besides, we ARE the government, are we not? I always hear these excuses, and forgive me, but I think it's baloney that serves to assuage consciences.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> People working 40 hrs or more a week should be making a living wage. They have a job or maybe 2 or 3 jobs and can't feed their families without food stamps. Not right. I think it is morally reprehensible for big corporations and people who make a million dollars to not pay any federal income taxe. I think it is morally reprehensible for the CEO of a large corporation who will retire with about $88,000 a month to want to cut social security for some one who will be receiving about $1,000 a month.
> If we relied on people to take care of each other, many people would not be taken care of. Many people talk the talk, but do not walk the walk. I agree, that people are better off with opportunity, but that opportunity has to be available and when all we hear form the right in congress is to cut, cut, cut, there is less opportunity available. What I hear from the right is those that need that hand up, or that opportunity, or a little help with food stamps, those are the worthless lazy people and it is their own fault they are where they are. FaceBook is full of people complaining about the takers, just like the right in Washington complaining about the takers, the same ones who claim to be the religious right. Hypocrite is the word I use for those in Washington.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A lot of people on the religious right (myself included) feel that the morally responsible thing to do is to provide support for ourselves and our families AND to give and give until we have nothing else to give, to those in need. We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.


Now that is starting to sound like Daddy Bush's 1,000 Points of Light plan, ya know, the one where churches and communities were supposed to provide for the less fortunate. Not a whole hell of a lot of churches and communities stepped up to the plate on that one.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Evidently he doesn't even know since he says "whatever you're doing". Means to me that he has absolutely no idea except that people are complaining about me...probably with something like "you really have to get rid of this troublemaker" with no specifics attached.


Just keep being you. That's gold!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Just read about Cyclone Pam somewhere in Australia. I have no sense of geography but Australian islands (?) were badly hit. I hope our friends from OZ are far from the Cyclone.


Cyclone Pam has affected Vanuatu:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cyclone+pam&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=5MMDVbrLOYXHmAXt2oLwCA

Cyclone Olwyn has affected Western Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-13/cyclone-olwyn-chevron-facing-backlash-over-conditions/6313738


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm just wondering what world they live in.


1950's Ohio.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I think you are rationalizing. Did Jesus ever say it's morally reprehensible to take from one group to give to another? Give me a break! Did he ever say that governments should not give to people in need? Besides, we ARE the government, are we not? I always hear these excuses, and forgive me, but I think it's baloney that serves to assuage consciences.


There are good reasons for government to administer public assistance. Religious organizations cannot be trusted to be fair, to be consistent, and to provide help without a heaping helping of Jesus. There is simply too much opportunity for religious organizations to make judgements about worthiness, lifestyle, etc. Imagine, if you will, the degrading process that would probably be part of begging for help if the rednecked bigots in the south were in charge and the applicant was a black person who didn't "look" right? Mandatory drug testing and chastity pledges? Agreements not to have abortions? Demands that the person perform work for the chuch in exchange? What about the very real differences in wealth from north to south? Even if well-meaning, poorer communities could not provide training, treatment or other social services to the needy.

Church-based charity isn't the answer.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Now that is starting to sound like Daddy Bush's 1,000 Points of Light plan, ya know, the one where churches and communities were supposed to provide for the less fortunate. Not a whole hell of a lot of churches and communities stepped up to the plate on that one.


Here's what I think. I think people have become jaded. They've stopped caring about their fellow man. They think, well the government is already taking enough of my money and giving it to the poor, so I don't have to. I think the whole system has caused everybody to think they're entitled to everything, everybody else has. It's one thing, to help those who are truly on need, another to just give to everyone who has a hand out.

I know that I'll take all kinds of crap for this. But I have personally known people on assistance who had way more than we did, DVD players,video cameras, big screen TVs. I've known at least four like that. It's hard to feel sorry for people who live better on welfare, than you do. I'd prefer to give my money to those who need food, clothing, a car, than someone with a big screen TV in their living room. Maybe they think they "need" it, but I don't. I think I can do more with my money, than the government can. But I'm not given the choice.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> There are good reasons for government to administer public assistance. Religious organizations cannot be trusted to be fair, to be consistent, and to provide help without a heaping helping of Jesus. There is simply too much opportunity for religious organizations to make judgements about worthiness, lifestyle, etc. Imagine, if you will, the degrading process that would probably be part of begging for help if the rednecked bigots in the south were in charge and the applicant was a black person who didn't "look" right? Mandatory drug testing and chastity pledges? Agreements not to have abortions? Demands that the person perform work for the chuch in exchange? What about the very real differences in wealth from north to south? Even if well-meaning, poorer communities could not provide training, treatment or other social services to the needy.
> 
> Church-based charity isn't the answer.


One good reason the government shouldn't be administering our money is because a LOT of it goes straight to the corporations. They're probably the biggest "welfare" recipients.

I don't think that church based charity is the answer either. I believe that individuals should have the right to help whomever they please. But I also think that having the government take your money and give it, has caused people to not care.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A lot of people on the religious right (myself included) feel that the morally responsible thing to do is to provide support for ourselves and our families AND to give and give until we have nothing else to give, to those in need. We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.


The problem with that is the religious right has bought into the belief that there is a huge culture of "takers" that refuse to work. The old accusation that people expect government to "provide for their every need" spouted by people like Ryan. I have heard that belief repeated in a thousand different ways both in the media and from people I know.

The problem is, it's a lie. A lie and a red herring to distract from the real economic reasons for the need for public assistance. The 1% have bought republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and to blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates. They use religion as a helpful tool. That plus racism and permission to have a superior attitude toward the poor.

Most people who receive food stamps work. Many are veterans, damaged physically and mentally by needless wars, whose challenges in finding suitable employment are daunting. What does the right wing do? Refuse to fully fund veterans services. It's popular to criticize food stamp recipients by saying they made poor choices and to judge them unworthy, but the children who go hungry had no part in those choices. Once sucked into the grinding world of minimum wage jobs, getting more education is not an option because of the massive cost in terms of future debt and availability of time. It sounds so good to repeat stories of the "bootstrap" variety and how "my family was poor but we lived within our means." Try living in today's world on minimum wage. And a lot of college graduates are working minimum wage jobs - with crippling student loans to pay.

The morally responsible thing to do is to reverse the economic trend toward ever-worsening income inequality and tax the wealthy and provide free education to all. EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE has shown that when corporations and the wealthy are taxed at higher rates, everyone prospers. The REAL job creators have money and in turn create jobs. When education is truly available to everyone, the workforce is able to fill jobs that pay decently and are competitive in the world market. The spiral starts to move upward instead of downward as we have seen since the Regan years with his voodoo economics.

There's your hand "up" instead of a handout. Basic fairness. Government should not be a tool for protecting the rich. It should be in the business of facilitating the common good, in helping provide a good quality of life for all. *Taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society*, they are not confiscating wealth as the republicans like to portray them.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Just keep being you. That's gold!


I don't know any other way to be. I tried being a "lady" once. Worst 5 minutes of my life.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> One good reason the government shouldn't be administering our money is because a LOT of it goes straight to the corporations. They're probably the biggest "welfare" recipients.
> 
> I don't think that church based charity is the answer either. I believe that individuals should have the right to help whomever they please. But I also think that having the government take your money and give it, has caused people to not care.


Let's hear a solution, for once, Nebs. What is your proposed answer?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Let's hear a solution, for once, Nebs. What is your proposed answer?


Seems to be shut up and let us who know better take care of it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Cyclone Pam has affected Vanuatu:
> 
> http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cyclone+pam&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=5MMDVbrLOYXHmAXt2oLwCA
> 
> ...


Thanks Wombatala. I am not sure where you are in Oz but I assume you were nowhere near the cyclone. Do you mates ever use the the word "friend"?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Seems to be shut up and let us who know better take care of it.


Trouble is, they DON'T know.

I would refer everyone again to the video found at






Income inequality is a crisis. If you watch (or even pause) the clip where the speaker shows the actual distribution of wealth, one can see that even those many of us would consider well-to-do are suffering. People like small business owners, people who have professional credentials like attorneys and doctors, people who HAVE worked very hard to build their dreams. They are suffering too, and they provide excellent fodder to support the lie. Those of us of more limited means just suffer more.

And the truly poor? There simply are NOT enough resources left for them to have any realistic hope. But, they are the ones who are at fault for the suffering of the "wealthy" who are being taxed to death and burdened with government overreach.

Watch the video again, ladies. It pays to maintain some clairty on what we truly face.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I think you are rationalizing. Did Jesus ever say it's morally reprehensible to take from one group to give to another? Give me a break! Did he ever say that governments should not give to people in need? Besides, we ARE the government, are we not? I always hear these excuses, and forgive me, but I think it's baloney that serves to assuage consciences.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Trouble is, they DON'T know.


Oh, I realize that. But they are convinced that they do and will do their best (maybe I should say worst) to convince everyone else of that.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NEB said
We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.
--------------

And how are you going to create the opportunity without the Government having programs to teach them how to pull themselves up?
I believe that to be true of some on the right, but I sure don't believe it of those who state without proof that 'most of those on welfare are cheating the system and are too lazy to help themselves. They do however think it is perfectly okay for the small percentage of the wealthy (who have more money than a huge number of other Americans put together) to make money and use it to increase their own holdings and at the same time do nothing for those who desperately need education, and jobs , programs to teach them a trade, homes they can afford to live in. Personally, I 'think it is reprehensible' to let a woman with children, who is trying to raise them on her own, to expect her to starve or be homeless because they 'don't think' she is worth helping. 

Certainly there are some who take advantage, but what about those who don't? They are born into poverty and have no skills to get out - 

I think you should say it is morally reprehensible to let your poor grow up with no hope. However, the Christian right expects that woman who is already at the bottom of the chain, to avoid choosing to not have a child, so that she can look after the children she does have. Help is needed in the way of programs to help people get out of poverty. Do you honestly believe that those who are middle class want to help those who are not able to get out of poverty? From what I have read - they are judgmental, unkind, and yes they do have charities, but often the charities in the Churches are for only those who are considered 'worth' helping. 

What about the Blacks who have been living in poverty since their grandparents awere slaves? How do you get out of that life when that is all you have ever known, usually the mother is working all night or all day. Then there is the fact that many many whites, especially in the south believe they are useless to start with. So no real change is happening because the change has to be done by the white people who are better off. Do you honestly think that any of those on the other thread would help out anyone in Ferguson? I read that they are all for the Police who step on those who were black every chance they get. I lurked to see their reaction. All for the police and nothing for those who have been victims of racism their whole lives. Yet it has since been proven to be the truth about the Police service there.

It is fine to say that those on on the Left would give everything they possibly could to help the poor. Do you honestly believe that? That is not realistic. Not the those who I read about nor many of those who post here. Some, possibly but certainly not all.

At least we are trying to make change. At least we fight for programs that can help those who are desperate. But instead those who are lead by a group of crazies, fight every program, every idea because they don't trust the Government because either a Black man is President or because they want to throw road blocks in the way of the Government for their own gain. 
pull them selves up'? They don't want them pulled up in my opinion.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Oh, I realize that. But they are convinced that they do and will do their best (maybe I should say worst) to convince everyone else of that.


They've been doing pretty good job convincing conservatives of the lie. There is a reason the republicans propose nothing that is helpful - they only focus on slashing taxes and promoting the "christian" agenda. There is a reason they claim there is a war on religion. It panders to the religious fanatics - and there are plenty of them. There is a reason they are trying to pass laws to "protect" their religious "rights." The agenda is being defined by the Kochs and other wealthy people to distract all of us. We need to fight their nonsense, but we also need to remember to look at the bigger picture. It is tempting to dismiss the fringes, but the Kochs know how valuable they are in fabricating emotional issues to divide people. We must not ignore the crazies - we did that and they are now in power.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Trouble is, they DON'T know.
> 
> I would refer everyone again to the video found at
> 
> ...


I hope NEBs and those on the right look at it - it is very scary and is not getting better.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope NEBs and those on the right look at it - it is very scary and is not getting better.


You know they won't. They'll just spit out that it's "liberal propaganda" and dismiss it without even trying to watch, just like they do with any written evidence we try to present them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope NEBs and those on the right look at it - it is very scary and is not getting better.


If we don't make it better, who will?

OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> You know they won't. They'll just spit out that it's "liberal propaganda" and dismiss it without even trying to watch, just like they do with any written evidence we try to present them.


All the more reason for progressives to watch and remember. And act.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> All the more reason for progressives to watch and remember. And act.


I've been mainly lurking for a few days, too busy to put my thoughts in order and write much. But you people have done it for me, with eloquence and humor and hope. I'm fortunate to have fallen among friends with such intelligence and with a moral compass grounded in a real sense of right and wrong, rather than instructions (or commandments) from a book.

I needed you all to know that before I went back to lurking.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been mainly lurking for a few days, too busy to put my thoughts in order and write much. But you people have done it for me, with eloquence and humor and hope. I'm fortunate to have fallen among friends with such intelligence and with a moral compass grounded in a real sense of right and wrong, rather than instructions (or commandments) from a book.
> 
> I needed you all to know that before I went back to lurking.


Thanks Purl, we need you around here so keep dropping by.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Let's hear a solution, for once, Nebs. What is your proposed answer?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

I don't think there is a way that her method would ever ever work. It has to be organized and each person, contributing everything they have won't accomplish much. If it isn't sorted out so that those who need it (all of them) are given the opportunity. I just can see it.

Nebs, please answer Green and tell us how your method is possible in the real world.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Has anyone heard from EVE? I wonder if she is in the midst of the bad weather - I hope she is okay.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There are good reasons for government to administer public assistance. Religious organizations cannot be trusted to be fair, to be consistent, and to provide help without a heaping helping of Jesus. There is simply too much opportunity for religious organizations to make judgements about worthiness, lifestyle, etc. Imagine, if you will, the degrading process that would probably be part of begging for help if the rednecked bigots in the south were in charge and the applicant was a black person who didn't "look" right? Mandatory drug testing and chastity pledges? Agreements not to have abortions? Demands that the person perform work for the chuch in exchange? What about the very real differences in wealth from north to south? Even if well-meaning, poorer communities could not provide training, treatment or other social services to the needy.
> 
> Church-based charity isn't the answer.


There are plenty of churches around who provide meals, clothing, rent money, furniture, etc. with no strings attached. The thing is that individuals and organizations cannot possibly reach all those in need, and I feel it's the responsibility of my government to provide help to those people. The problem of poverty in the US is much bigger than people imagine.

Thanks for providing the link to the inequality video. 
Time for businesses to start paying a good, living wage. Give small businesses some breaks so they can afford to pay more in wages, and let's urge the government to start clamping down on corporate welfare.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm


DGreen said:


> The problem with that is the religious right has bought into the belief that there is a huge culture of "takers" that refuse to work. The old accusation that people expect government to "provide for their every need" spouted by people like Ryan. I have heard that belief repeated in a thousand different ways both in the media and from people I know.
> 
> The problem is, it's a lie. A lie and a red herring to distract from the real economic reasons for the need for public assistance. The 1% have bought republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and to blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates. They use religion as a helpful tool. That plus racism and permission to have a superior attitude toward the poor.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> There are plenty of churches around who provide meals, clothing, rent money, furniture, etc. with no strings attached.


Not a whole lot of them if compared as a percentage of the total number of churches and religious organizations. And that is especially true here in the south. Churches giving aid expect, at a minimum, that you will regularly attend services. And refuse aid if you don't. We have churches and places like the SA who refuse aid to gays and lesbians, regardless of whether they have an ongoing relationship.

We had 13 female VETERANS living under a bridge here, some with children. One of the churches gave a dinner for them (nothing else, just one dinner) and it outraged another church so badly that they managed to get the children taken away from their mothers. VETERANS...women who fought for this country only to be thrown away when they came home. The most egregious part of this story is that there is a housing area that used to be base housing for the Navy. When the base was closed, the housing was supposed to be turned into low income units, with veterans getting special benefits for cost. How many years later and that housing still sits empty and rotting while we have homeless vets.

Homeless veterans who are characterized (demonized) as "takers". If they can do that to people who put their lives on the line to protect the government, does anyone think they'll do more for the average person?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Not a whole lot of them if compared as a percentage of the total number of churches and religious organizations. And that is especially true here in the south. Churches giving aid expect, at a minimum, that you will regularly attend services. And refuse aid if you don't. We have churches and places like the SA who refuse aid to gays and lesbians, regardless of whether they have an ongoing relationship.
> 
> We had 13 female VETERANS living under a bridge here, some with children. One of the churches gave a dinner for them (nothing else, just one dinner) and it outraged another church so badly that they managed to get the children taken away from their mothers. VETERANS...women who fought for this country only to be thrown away when they came home. The most egregious part of this story is that there is a housing area that used to be base housing for the Navy. When the base was closed, the housing was supposed to be turned into low income units, with veterans getting special benefits for cost. How many years later and that housing still sits empty and rotting while we have homeless vets.
> 
> Homeless veterans who are characterized (demonized) as "takers". If they can do that to people who put their lives on the line to protect the government, does anyone think they'll do more for the average person?


It's no wonder veterans commit suicide in horrific numbers. The Stars and Stripes reports that about 22 veterans a day take their own life.

And Cotton, McCain, Ryan, Cruz and the rest of those traitors want more war?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> It's no wonder veterans commit suicide in horrific numbers. The Stars and Stripes reports that about 22 veterans a day take their own life.
> 
> And Cotton, McCain, Ryan, Cruz and the rest of those traitors want more war?


They certainly do. If you look at the make up of the soldiers in front line combat, you'll also see that it feeds into their (doesn't exist) racism. It is becoming that black boys see 2 paths in their future...prison or the military. Both of which have high likelihoods of early death. And if they survive the military, they will come home to the same poverty, inequality, and scorn they tried to get out of.

I want to tell them...you want another war? Re-instate the draft so that it isn't the poor ending up doing the fighting. Give all our (and your) kids a chance to die far from home. See if you get re-elected by even proposing that. I don't think even your tea-party supporters would approve.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Screw up on the edit I was trying to make.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

You know, there was a poster during the Vietnam era that maybe needs reviving.

What if they gave a war and nobody came?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> They certainly do. If you look at the make up of the soldiers in front line combat, you'll also see that it feeds into their (doesn't exist) racism. It is becoming that black boys see 2 paths in their future...prison or the military. Both of which have high likelihoods of early death. And if they survive the military, they will come home to the same poverty, inequality, and scorn they tried to get out of.
> 
> I want to tell them...you want another war? Re-instate the draft so that it isn't the poor ending up doing the fighting. Give all our (and your) kids a chance to die far from home. See if you get re-elected by even proposing that. I don't think even your tea-party supporters would approve.


Not so sure about the Tea Party attitude. A lot of them are senile old farts who don't give a crap who dies as long as it's not them. Or who think dying for one's country is a high achievement, as long as it's not them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Re-instate the draft so that it isn't the poor ending up doing the fighting.


If there is another war, I feel there will have to be a draft. Our military is used up from repeated, endless tours of duty in the mid-east.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> If there is another war, I feel there will have to be a draft. Our military is used up from repeated, endless tours of duty in the mid-east.


Yeah, but they keep doing the unacceptable...coming home alive.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah, but they keep doing the unacceptable...coming home alive.


Alive and needing help. The needing help and care is the unacceptable part. I'm enraged every time I see commercials on TV asking for money for vets. Not that they don't deserve it. It's that they need to BEG for it. Of course, there is also the problem of scams posing as charities for vets.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Alive and needing help. The needing help and care is the unacceptable part. I'm enraged every time I see commercials on TV asking for money for vets. Not that they don't deserve it. It's that they need to BEG for it. Of course, there is also the problem of scams posing as charities for vets.


But coming home in a box is SO much cheaper.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Not a whole lot of them if compared as a percentage of the total number of churches and religious organizations. And that is especially true here in the south. Churches giving aid expect, at a minimum, that you will regularly attend services. And refuse aid if you don't. We have churches and places like the SA who refuse aid to gays and lesbians, regardless of whether they have an ongoing relationship.
> 
> We had 13 female VETERANS living under a bridge here, some with children. One of the churches gave a dinner for them (nothing else, just one dinner) and it outraged another church so badly that they managed to get the children taken away from their mothers. VETERANS...women who fought for this country only to be thrown away when they came home. The most egregious part of this story is that there is a housing area that used to be base housing for the Navy. When the base was closed, the housing was supposed to be turned into low income units, with veterans getting special benefits for cost. How many years later and that housing still sits empty and rotting while we have homeless vets.
> 
> Homeless veterans who are characterized (demonized) as "takers". If they can do that to people who put their lives on the line to protect the government, does anyone think they'll do more for the average person?


Those are churches in name only, in my opinion. Not every church is composed of religious right fanatics. There are some that act out of charity whether you believe it or not.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here's what I think. I think people have become jaded. They've stopped caring about their fellow man. They think, well the government is already taking enough of my money and giving it to the poor, so I don't have to. I think the whole system has caused everybody to think they're entitled to everything, everybody else has. It's one thing, to help those who are truly on need, another to just give to everyone who has a hand out.
> 
> I know that I'll take all kinds of crap for this. But I have personally known people on assistance who had way more than we did, DVD players,video cameras, big screen TVs. I've known at least four like that. It's hard to feel sorry for people who live better on welfare, than you do. I'd prefer to give my money to those who need food, clothing, a car, than someone with a big screen TV in their living room. Maybe they think they "need" it, but I don't. I think I can do more with my money, than the government can. But I'm not given the choice.


This is a very common complaint I hear over and over from those on the right. They have more than I do. Since I don't know the people you are talking about I can't comment on what they have, and unless you have walked in their shoes, you shouldn't either. You sound just like the Heritage Foundation guy that said 99% of the poor people have a refrigerator. Well how could they????? You want to give your money to those that are really destitute and not to some one who had a good job, was able to take care of his or her family and then lost that job. Do you expect them to loose all their possessions too? That hand up you were talking about obviously wasn't the truth. I think there is too much putting poor people in a box and painting them all with the same brush. After all if you haven't suffered "enough" then you don't deserve any help.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Those are churches in name only, in my opinion. Not every church is composed of religious right fanatics. There are some that act out of charity whether you believe it or not.


You're correct, Cookie. There are churches who perform acts of charity because it is the right thing to do. You'll notice though, that they frequently need to plead for money because their congregations can only do so much and for so long.

Observe, too, the charlatans who rake in millions and live fabulously on the backs of the faithful in the name of charity or their efforts to "spread the word." For example, we have this fellow with the amazingly perfect name of "Dollar":

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/03/13/pastor-creflo-dollar-wants-65-million-from-his-followers-so-he-can-buy-a-plane/

*Religious charity is worse than government assistance because it can't be regulated!*


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> One good reason the government shouldn't be administering our money is because a LOT of it goes straight to the corporations. They're probably the biggest "welfare" recipients.
> 
> I don't think that church based charity is the answer either. I believe that individuals should have the right to help whomever they please. But I also think that having the government take your money and give it, has caused people to not care.


What has caused people to not care is all the bad mouthing poor people take from those on the right. Paint everyone with the same brush, they are all the same, all lazy and worthless. Again it is easy to look at a person and decide you know everything about them and therefor you are qualified to judge them.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Those are churches in name only, in my opinion. Not every church is composed of religious right fanatics. There are some that act out of charity whether you believe it or not.


Maybe some. Not enough. The same ones who deny help are also the ones that tout their 'devotion' to Jesus in loud voices.

Sorry, but you do not give hungry, homeless people a bible and expect them to thank you for it.

A lot of churches around here also own rental property (13 on our street alone). Including the church that gave those women a dinner. Wouldn't it have been better to offer, at least to the women with children, an actual roof over their heads?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> What has caused people to not care is all the bad mouthing poor people take from those on the right. Paint everyone with the same brush, they are all the same, all lazy and worthless. Again it is easy to look at a person and decide you know everything about them and therefor you are qualified to judge them.


Oh, but they don't paint EVERYONE the same. I've seen many (other KP threads) who admit they or their families have accepted public assistance. BUT "only because they were having hard times" and stopped asking for help as soon as possible because THEY have a work ethic and some pride.

It's the "others" that are scum.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I


DGreen said:


> You're correct, Cookie. There are churches who perform acts of charity because it is the right thing to do. You'll notice though, that they frequently need to plead for money because their congregations can only do so much and for so long.
> 
> Observe, too, the charlatans who rake in millions and live fabulously on the backs of the faithful in the name of charity or their efforts to "spread the word." For example, we have this fellow with the amazingly perfect name of "Dollar":
> 
> ...


I consider that kind of crap criminal behavior. They deserve to lose tax-exempt status.
It's a question of doing what's morally right and what's right for the common good---something a lot of people lose sight of. Yes, our government needs to do something about poverty and inequality on many different fronts, but give some of us a little credit for acting responsibly however we can.
After all, I still vote correctly!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> There are plenty of churches around who provide meals, clothing, rent money, furniture, etc. with no strings attached. The thing is that individuals and organizations cannot possibly reach all those in need, and I feel it's the responsibility of my government to provide help to those people. The problem of poverty in the US is much bigger than people imagine.
> 
> Thanks for providing the link to the inequality video.
> Time for businesses to start paying a good, living wage. Give small businesses some breaks so they can afford to pay more in wages, and let's urge the government to start clamping down on corporate welfare.


I don't think the government will do anything about corporate welfare until democrats regain control. I have sent emails to Grassley many many times and he always votes against me. He is up for reelection and will be 83 in 2016 and says he is running.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> I don't think the government will do anything about corporate welfare until democrats regain control. I have sent emails to Grassley many many times and he always votes against me. He is up for reelection and will be 83 in 2016 and says he is running.


Trying to break Thurmond's record?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

DGreen said:


> There are good reasons for government to administer public assistance. Religious organizations cannot be trusted to be fair, to be consistent, and to provide help without a heaping helping of Jesus. There is simply too much opportunity for religious organizations to make judgements about worthiness, lifestyle, etc. Imagine, if you will, the degrading process that would probably be part of begging for help if the rednecked bigots in the south were in charge and the applicant was a black person who didn't "look" right? Mandatory drug testing and chastity pledges? Agreements not to have abortions? Demands that the person perform work for the chuch in exchange? What about the very real differences in wealth from north to south? Even if well-meaning, poorer communities could not provide training, treatment or other social services to the needy.
> 
> Church-based charity isn't the answer.


Right on lady!!!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I
> 
> I consider that kind of crap criminal behavior. They deserve to lose tax-exempt status.
> It's a question of doing what's morally right and what's right for the common good---something a lot of people lose sight of. Yes, our government needs to do something about poverty and inequality on many different fronts, but give some of us a little credit for acting responsibly however we can.
> After all, I still vote correctly!


Just like all other institutions, churches and religions are an infinite mix of good, bad and indifferent.

As an atheist, I disagree about losing their tax-free status. Churches must NOT be taxed. The power to tax is the power to control and I don't want government controlling churches. Religious freedom MUST be maintained for believers and non-believers alike.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> I don't think the government will do anything about corporate welfare until democrats regain control. I have sent emails to Grassley many many times and he always votes against me. He is up for reelection and will be 83 in 2016 and says he is running.


The dems are almost as bad as the republicans. They are much too timid and fearful of backlash. They all need to take a lesson from Elizabeth Warren and then behave accordingly.

Yes, I'm a Democrat and proud to be. But I'm not blind and I'm not stupid. We need better candidates.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I
> Yes, our government needs to do something about poverty and inequality on many different fronts, but give some of us a little credit for acting responsibly however we can.
> After all, I still vote correctly!


The thing is that those who do their best to help usually do it in silence and without advertising their acts far and wide. We'll not know who they are to give the credit they are due.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Oh, but they don't paint EVERYONE the same. I've seen many (other KP threads) who admit they or their families have accepted public assistance. BUT "only because they were having hard times" and stopped asking for help as soon as possible because THEY have a work ethic and some pride.
> 
> It's the "others" that are scum.


Well, of course, "they " are different. They were deserving, but "those" people aren't.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The dems are almost as bad as the republicans. They are much too timid and fearful of backlash. They all need to take a lesson from Elizabeth Warren and then behave accordingly.
> 
> Yes, I'm a Democrat and proud to be. But I'm not blind and I'm not stupid. We need better candidates.


Yes we do and we need to vote. That was the problem in 2014. There will be 24 senators, letter signers, up for reelection in 2016. It would be wonderful if we could replace at least half of them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> Yes we do and we need to vote. That was the problem in 2014. There will be 24 senators, letter signers, up for reelection in 2016. It would be wonderful if we could replace at least half of them.


Democrats historically blow off mid-terms but at least they vote in major elections. We CAN and we MUST take back the house and senate.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Democrats historically blow off mid-terms but at least they vote in major elections. We CAN and we MUST take back the house and senate.


But before we can do that we have to stop the illegal redistributing of districts and the efforts to disenfranchise even more citizens. It doesn't help to want to vote if regulations are in place to keep you from doing just that. And the push is really on now to stop liberal and left-leaning independent voters from doing so.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> But before we can do that we have to stop the illegal redistributing of districts and the efforts to disenfranchise even more citizens. It doesn't help to want to vote if regulations are in place to keep you from doing just that. And the push is really on now to stop liberal and left-leaning independent voters from doing so.


You have an excellent point, but until the repubs are out of office, they can and will try to disenfranchise progressive voters. It's an integral element of their election strategy.

So, what to do? As part of the campaign to get out the vote, there must be a push to register in spite of obstacles. We must conform and submit to any new rules in order to thwart the republicans. We need to start NOW.

As for their gerrymandering? I'm at a total loss on that one. Anyone have any ideas on how to stop that?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Has anyone heard from EVE? I wonder if she is in the midst of the bad weather - I hope she is okay.


Last time she posted was March 7, I also hope she is okay, I miss her insightful remarks.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You have an excellent point, but until the repubs are out of office, they can and will try to disenfranchise progressive voters. It's an integral element of their election strategy.
> 
> So, what to do? As part of the campaign to get out the vote, there must be a push to register in spite of obstacles. We must conform and submit to any new rules in order to thwart the republicans. We need to start NOW.
> 
> As for their gerrymandering? I'm at a total loss on that one. Anyone have any ideas on how to stop that?


Sure doesn't look like it any more. States are pushing through their own constitutional amendments allowing them to do what they want without a referendum. Pretty good over view at the following site.

http://redistricting.lls.edu/


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here's what I think. I think people have become jaded. They've stopped caring about their fellow man. They think, well the government is already taking enough of my money and giving it to the poor, so I don't have to. I think the whole system has caused everybody to think they're entitled to everything, everybody else has. It's one thing, to help those who are truly on need, another to just give to everyone who has a hand out.
> 
> I know that I'll take all kinds of crap for this. But I have personally known people on assistance who had way more than we did, DVD players,video cameras, big screen TVs. I've known at least four like that. It's hard to feel sorry for people who live better on welfare, than you do. I'd prefer to give my money to those who need food, clothing, a car, than someone with a big screen TV in their living room. Maybe they think they "need" it, but I don't. I think I can do more with my money, than the government can. But I'm not given the choice.


I am not going to give you crap, I going to give you facts. Churches and communities do give to charitable organizations, but there are many and limited funds. I have served on the Board of Directors of a battered women's shelter and I can tell you that even with donations from individuals, United Way, churches and fundraisers, it is not enough to provide safety and shelter for violence victims. Budget shortfalls mean cancellation of services to these victims.

Yes there are people who abuse the system, but there are far more who need and deserve help. Would you have women and children be living on the street, women who turn to prostitution to support their family? I have seen it and I have seen first hand organizations who provide, free of charge, services that have stabilized and uplifted these people who are now productive citizens, paying taxes, and giving back to the community and this country.

You paint everyone on assistance with one brush....doing that will mean you, not me, are responsible for starving families.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject, but forewarning, I will fight you and everyone else who, consciously or unconsciously is responsible for allowing people, citizens or not, to be homeless, starving, dying because they cannot afford to seek out health care.

Sorry to be so longwinded, but this is a subject near and dear to me.

Edit: I am a strong believer in prosecuting people who abuse the system.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> But before we can do that we have to stop the illegal redistributing of districts and the efforts to disenfranchise even more citizens. It doesn't help to want to vote if regulations are in place to keep you from doing just that. And the push is really on now to stop liberal and left-leaning independent voters from doing so.


The democrats are planning big for 2020. That is the year that redistricting will be done so it is being called Advantage 2020 and they are putting a lot of money into that election. They also need to change how the redistricting is done in some states. Iowa is different than any other state in how they do it.

Iowa conducts redistricting unlike any other state. The Iowa system does not put the task in the hands of a commission, but rather non-partisan legislative staff develop maps for the Iowa House and Senate, as well as U.S. House districts, without any political or election data (including the addresses of incumbents). A 5-person advisory commission is also formed. This is different from all other states.[1] The redistricting plans from the non-partisan legislative staff are then presented to the Iowa Legislature for a straight 'Up' or 'Down' vote; if the Legislature rejects the redistricting plans, the process starts over. (Eventually, the Iowa Supreme Court will enter the process if the Legislature fails to adopt a plan three times.)

As long as a state like Ohio is red, they pretty much have it covered. They use their governor, auditor, secretary of state and two from each party. Two democrats but 5 republicans pretty much takes care it. If they don't change these kind of things too, it will continue to be a circus. The majority of states are done by the legislatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_commission


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> The democrats are planning big for 2020. That is the year that redistricting will be done so it is being called Advantage 2020 and they are putting a lot of money into that election. They also need to change how the redistricting is done in some states. Iowa is different than any other state in how they do it.
> 
> Iowa conducts redistricting unlike any other state. The Iowa system does not put the task in the hands of a commission, but rather non-partisan legislative staff develop maps for the Iowa House and Senate, as well as U.S. House districts, without any political or election data (including the addresses of incumbents). A 5-person advisory commission is also formed. This is different from all other states.[1] The redistricting plans from the non-partisan legislative staff are then presented to the Iowa Legislature for a straight 'Up' or 'Down' vote; if the Legislature rejects the redistricting plans, the process starts over. (Eventually, the Iowa Supreme Court will enter the process if the Legislature fails to adopt a plan three times.)
> 
> ...


I am intrigued by the thought that a legislative staff can be non-partisan.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am intrigued by the thought that a legislative staff can be non-partisan.


This is what the state map looks like, definitely better than some states I have seen. If we can't elect more democrats by 2020 nothing will change.

http://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/Resources/Redist/2011/2011-03-31/CongressStatewide8x11_color.pdf

this is what Ohio looks like.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio%27s_congressional_districts

this is what Texas looks like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Texas


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> This is what the state map looks like, definitely better than some states I have seen.
> 
> http://www.legis.iowa.gov/DOCS/Resources/Redist/2011/2011-03-31/CongressStatewide8x11_color.pdf
> 
> ...


Interesting, thanks for the links.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am intrigued by the thought that a legislative staff can be non-partisan.


But it isn't just the legislative staff. There is also a 5 person commission and then the legislature votes, so it is checked and then checked again and voted on. In Ohio if the 5 republicans approve it , it is done.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

_From KFN: Here's what I think. I think people have become jaded. They've stopped caring about their fellow man. They think, well the government is already taking enough of my money and giving it to the poor, so I don't have to. I think the whole system has caused everybody to think they're entitled to everything, everybody else has. It's one thing, to help those who are truly on need, another to just give to everyone who has a hand out.

I know that I'll take all kinds of crap for this. But I have personally known people on assistance who had way more than we did, DVD players,video cameras, big screen TVs. I've known at least four like that. It's hard to feel sorry for people who live better on welfare, than you do. I'd prefer to give my money to those who need food, clothing, a car, than someone with a big screen TV in their living room. Maybe they think they "need" it, but I don't. I think I can do more with my money, than the government can. But I'm not given the choice._

Just because you have known abusers does not mean everyone needing assistance abuses the system.

You have been listening to the lies and believing them. Liars like Ryan and other republicans, liars like Limbaugh and Hannity who want you to think that. I would turn your own question on you, Nebs. How do you "know" what you know? Four families does NOT represent the whole. Thinking it does is like the blind man feeling the elephants tail and thinking an elephant is like a snake.

I was married for 34 years to a public servant administering the food stamp program in Arizona. As part of his job, he worked closely with ADC (Aid to Dependent Children) and other assistance groups. He was a worker doing intake and eligibility interviews, then went on to fraud investigation. He was very good at it. (Horrible husband but an outstanding bureaucrat). Over his career, he was a local office manager, then an assistant program manager. He ended his career auditing welfare offices, then doing prescriptive training to bring performance up to standards when there were problems. I believe I have had somewhat better visibility into welfare programs than you. And I'm telling you unequivocally that you are dead wrong.

Yes, there are abusers. But the vast majority of recipients truly need help. Children and the elderly, the disabled, those who have been injured and need temporary help, students trying to better themselves and working for minimum wage, women who find themselves single and unprepared for earning a decent living when hubby ditches them for a 20-year-old, the unemployed trying to keep their homes until they can get a job. Your public servants work incredibly hard to administer your tax money fairly, honestly and according to the law. My ex had no less than 17 3" binders of regulations to memorize and apply. It's a damned difficult job. He saw every kind of tragedy imaginable and was proud to make a difference to hungry people.

Who the hell are you to say a family must "look" poor before they are entitled to help? What about those who worked all their lives to make a comfortable living - the car, the nice home, the boat, the wide-screen TV - then lose their job? They paid taxes, too. Who are you to say they have to give up everything, sell everything and reach absolute destitution before they are worthy of help? Maybe they dress too well for you. Maybe they have nice things left from better times. Are you sure your tax dollars paid for those luxuries you criticize?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Those are churches in name only, in my opinion. Not every church is composed of religious right fanatics. There are some that act out of charity whether you believe it or not.


Once again, we can't put every person, or every church into the one box. There are many Churches who do really care, usually because they are led by People who really care - but there are some that are businesses and lose sight of helping the poor. I also agree that all Churchgoers are not Fanatics and they often do a great deal to help those who are in need. I agree completely cookie. I think when they are mixed with attitudes from areas where poverty is prevalent, and/or where history has colored their opinion of who deserves help, and also importantly, those who use the Church for their own ends that there is much trouble.

The Problem with Nebs statements is that it is impossible to really do much to help those who are in real need, unless the help iis organized and set up so that people can Get the Help and also helped to actually go to school, or go for job training, by proper care for their children while at school, and somehow being treated with respect. It requires a huge input of money, organization, and follow up.

Neb's statements are just too simplistic. Also she doesn't say how it is possible that poverty can be overcome by every Christian giving upvery thing they have earned and achieved to the poor -- how? How would she organize that? Not going to happen.

The only way is to correct what is happening with Government help agencies- they should be under careful watch, people should volunteer to help if they can (many do spend their lives volunteering) it is a HUGE undertaking but something needs to be agreed upon. That to me is the thing that is the biggest Challenge down there, finding cooperation from those who are members of the Government.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

I am so outraged right now. My husband just showed me a facebook page started by Joy's mother. Titled "Prayers for Baby Grace", it is outright begging for money. She makes it sound like they have no money coming in, can't afford gas to go to the hospital to visit their child who just has a "few" problems.

I asked my sister about it. She didn't know anything about it.

Yes, things are tight. Of course they are. Three new babies in the house and one of them with serious medical problems. But they have insurance, Tom has a good job (he's a plumber with an Allegheny County permit...which isn't easy to get).

To go begging for money is just more than my temper wants to stand right now.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I am so outraged right now. My husband just showed me a facebook page started by Joy's mother. Titled "Prayers for Baby Grace", it is outright begging for money. She makes it sound like they have no money coming in, can't afford gas to go to the hospital to visit their child who just has a "few" problems.
> 
> I asked my sister about it. She didn't know anything about it.
> 
> ...


How do you relax?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I am so outraged right now. My husband just showed me a facebook page started by Joy's mother. Titled "Prayers for Baby Grace", it is outright begging for money. She makes it sound like they have no money coming in, can't afford gas to go to the hospital to visit their child who just has a "few" problems.
> 
> I asked my sister about it. She didn't know anything about it.
> 
> ...


I can understand your anger, I wonder if it was done with the parents awareness or permission? I tried to open the facebook page, there are several Prayers for Baby Grace, not sure if that is one of them (I am not a big facebook user), do you have a link to it?

I certainly don't know what the family's financial circumstances are so it would be difficult for me to determine what their share of the medical bill are after insurance has taken care of the ins. company's share.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> How do you relax?


I am not an alcohol drinker, but if I was under her circumstances I might be driven to consume a couple gallons of wine (or better yet, pina coladas)


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I can understand your anger, I wonder if it was done with the parents awareness or permission? I tried to open the facebook page, there are several Prayers for Baby Grace, not sure if that is one of them (I am not a big facebook user), do you have a link to it?
> 
> I certainly don't know what the family's financial circumstances are so it would be difficult for me to determine what their share of the medical bill are after insurance has taken care of the ins. company's share.


No, the parents are not on facebook. My sister knew nothing about it. And no, I don't have a link. I don't have a facebook account either. My husband showed it to me. Their share is going to be pretty big. I'll admit that. But these kids have a really good income and giving up a couple 2 week Bahama vacations will probably take care of a good part of it.

Not to mention that if things were in that dire straights, Tom has a very nice stack of oil (not stocks, can't think of the right word right now) left to him by his father and worth quite a bit, my sister is in the process of selling her house and property ($250,000) and would gladly help them out. Plus his father had 6 brothers and sister who are more than willing to help out.

They need gas money? Somehow I really don't think so.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> How do you relax?


Right now I don't very often. Am hoping to actually get some time out when I go to my son's wedding.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am not an alcohol drinker, but if I was under her circumstances I might be driven to consume a couple gallons of wine (or better yet, pina coladas)


Yeah...if alcoholic beverages didn't make me barf blood, I'd probably be at the ABC store.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No, the parents are not on facebook. My sister knew nothing about it. And no, I don't have a link. I don't have a facebook account either. My husband showed it to me. Their share is going to be pretty big. I'll admit that. But these kids have a really good income and giving up a couple 2 week Bahama vacations will probably take care of a good part of it.
> 
> Not to mention that if things were in that dire straights, Tom has a very nice stack of oil (not stocks, can't think of the right word right now) left to him by his father and worth quite a bit, my sister is in the process of selling her house and property ($250,000) and would gladly help them out. Plus his father had 6 brothers and sister who are more than willing to help out.
> 
> They need gas money? Somehow I really don't think so.


Yikes, makes you wonder what the MIL is up to and who the donated money is sent to and who is going to make sure if goes for Grace? Seems a little odd to me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> No, the parents are not on facebook. My sister knew nothing about it. And no, I don't have a link. I don't have a facebook account either. My husband showed it to me. Their share is going to be pretty big. I'll admit that. But these kids have a really good income and giving up a couple 2 week Bahama vacations will probably take care of a good part of it.
> 
> Not to mention that if things were in that dire straights, Tom has a very nice stack of oil (not stocks, can't think of the right word right now) left to him by his father and worth quite a bit, my sister is in the process of selling her house and property ($250,000) and would gladly help them out. Plus his father had 6 brothers and sister who are more than willing to help out.
> 
> They need gas money? Somehow I really don't think so.


Oil wells? Like My Evil Republican Alynn?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oil wells? Like My Evil Republican Alynn?


Oil company shares. I finally remembered the word I want.

Ever heard of Pennzoil?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> _From KFN: Here's what I think. I think people have become jaded. They've stopped caring about their fellow man. They think, well the government is already taking enough of my money and giving it to the poor, so I don't have to. I think the whole system has caused everybody to think they're entitled to everything, everybody else has. It's one thing, to help those who are truly on need, another to just give to everyone who has a hand out.
> 
> I know that I'll take all kinds of crap for this. But I have personally known people on assistance who had way more than we did, DVD players,video cameras, big screen TVs. I've known at least four like that. It's hard to feel sorry for people who live better on welfare, than you do. I'd prefer to give my money to those who need food, clothing, a car, than someone with a big screen TV in their living room. Maybe they think they "need" it, but I don't. I think I can do more with my money, than the government can. But I'm not given the choice._
> 
> ...


100% correct, although I am sure you won't change the minds of those who want to believe the worst in people. Those that feel superior because they believe they have done things the right way. Those that have that boot strap mentality won't change their minds. People that listen to Fox or the Heritage Foundation believe the worst in people. I refuse to call Fox a news station anymore, as they don't really tell the news, it is just their version or what ever lie they want you to believe.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Oil company shares. I finally remembered the word I want.
> 
> Ever heard of Pennzoil?


But of course. But owning shares does not make them rich. It depends on how many and how they are performing.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> But of course. But owning shares does not make them rich. It depends on how many and how they are performing.


Performing very well. And no, it doesn't make them rich but it does give the lie of them not being able to afford gas. At last estimate, they could live for a year off the proceeds of the shares if they sold them. (Last estimate was done when they discovered they were having triplets)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Performing very well. And no, it doesn't make them rich but it does give the lie of them not being able to afford gas. At last estimate, they could live for a year off the proceeds of the shares if they sold them. (Last estimate was done when they discovered they were having triplets)


Maybe they cannot afford gas, but they can afford the oil change.

Ha Ha. Trying to cheer My JudyJudy up.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Here is why you take something from Wikipedia with a grain of salt, especially if it is a hot button item.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/14/report-nypd-edited-wikipedia-pages/21153349/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl4%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D627864


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb's statements are just too simplistic. Also she doesn't say how it is possible that poverty can be overcome by every Christian giving upvery thing they have earned and achieved to the poor -- how? How would she organize that? Not going to happen.
> 
> The only way is to correct what is happening with Government help agencies- they should be under careful watch, people should volunteer to help if they can (many do spend their lives volunteering) it is a HUGE undertaking but something needs to be agreed upon. That to me is the thing that is the biggest Challenge down there, finding cooperation from those who are members of the Government.


Simplistic is a good word for he republican storyline on welfare. Simplistic and incorrect.

Government help agencies are under careful watch with special units dedicated to finding and prosecuting those who commit fraud. As for volunteering, not an option. Help agencies collect very sensitive personal and financial information and must be trained in the appropriate handling of other people's data. If you're referring to volunteering for churches, yes, lots of people already do that.

I can't help myself but have to comment on what appears to be a scam going on with Grace's mother's family. Please note it is true that those who have means can be just as slimy as the poor. I've done payroll for many years as a career and every single company I've ever worked for fudged the rules and stole wages. Every. Single. One. Whether they were extremely profitable or not, they all cheated. Proud to say I have quit jobs rather than participate and I've been fired for refusing to participate in wage theft. Dishonesty was not invented by the poor.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I can't help myself but have to comment on what appears to be a scam going on with Grace's mother's family. Please note it is true that those who have means can be just as slimy as the poor. I've done payroll for many years as a career and every single company I've ever worked for fudged the rules and stole wages. Every. Single. One. Whether they were extremely profitable or not, they all cheated. Proud to say I have quit jobs rather than participate and I've been fired for refusing to participate in wage theft. Dishonesty was not invented by the poor.


I believe so too. The fact is that Tom and Joy would have no idea of the page. My sister wasn't even informed about it until I told her and she's the other grandmother...the grandmother who is doing most of the work helping out with this.

Joy is going to defecate a brick when she finds out...of that I'm sure. I can remember her reaction when TJ was born. Both families were asked NOT to post anything online until all the families had been notified of TJ's birth. Joy's mother posted it...with pictures...from the hospital. She didn't let her mother even see TJ for more than a month because of it. I can guarantee she is not going to be a bit amused by this.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I believe so too. The fact is that Tom and Joy would have no idea of the page. My sister wasn't even informed about it until I told her and she's the other grandmother...the grandmother who is doing most of the work helping out with this.
> 
> Joy is going to defecate a brick when she finds out...of that I'm sure. I can remember her reaction when TJ was born. Both families were asked NOT to post anything online until all the families had been notified of TJ's birth. Joy's mother posted it...with pictures...from the hospital. She didn't let her mother even see TJ for more than a month because of it. I can guarantee she is not going to be a bit amused by this.


I'm so sorry that this bit of trickery has caused you distress. You have more than enough of that on your plate.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'm so sorry that this bit of trickery has caused you distress. You have more than enough of that on your plate.


I just don't understand how someone can do something like this. First she diminishes the actual severity of the child's problems and then makes the parents sound like people with no resources or familial support. She certainly doesn't give any indication that she's doing anything to help.

Hell, she put up that page with one of the OTHER girls' picture on it...not Grace's. How do I know that? The hat. Grace has not been able to wear that type of hat (a beanie close to the head and over the ears) ever. Because of the shunt and tube.

Yeah, if she gets money some of it will probably go to Tom and Joy but I'm sure it won't be all of it and she's probably planning on making it look like it's something she's giving out of her own pocket, not funds she's begged gullible people for.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I just don't understand how someone can do something like this.


Honest people can't understand because it would never occur to them to do it.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

She's now set up a Go Fund Me page...with a stated goal of $10,000. However she's put it up under somebody else's name and has made a donation under her own name...a whole $10.

If my sister had let me know that they needed money (and she would have), I'd have sent at least $100 and I'm not that close to them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> She's now set up a Go Fund Me page...with a stated goal of $10,000. However she's put it up under somebody else's name and has made a donation under her own name...a whole $10.
> 
> If my sister had let me know that they needed money (and she would have), I'd have sent at least $100 and I'm not that close to them.


What about letting her daughter know? that might save a lot of problems later if she is not playing it correctly. I think the parents have a right to know what she is doing to collect moneyfor them. sheesh- I would be livid.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> What about letting her daughter know? that might save a lot of problems later if she is not playing it correctly. I think the parents have a right to know what she is doing to collect moneyfor them. sheesh- I would be livid.


My sister will be letting them know. And I think the money collection will be in their name only...that they'll see little if any of actual money collected.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I think you are rationalizing. Did Jesus ever say it's morally reprehensible to take from one group to give to another? Give me a break! Did he ever say that governments should not give to people in need? Besides, we ARE the government, are we not? I always hear these excuses, and forgive me, but I think it's baloney that serves to assuage consciences.


To my knowledge, not once did JESUS say to TAKE from one group to give to another. He said GIVE, GIVE GIVE. So, if you're aware of something I'm not, please fill me in. IMO, the fact that he didn't tell us to TAKE, but he DID tell us to give, means we are to give, not take.

Do you really think that WE are the government? I wonder then, why so many of us say that our "representatives" don't represent us? If WE are the government, are WE guilty of favoring corporations over ourselves? Are WE guilty of what the republicans do, as well as what the democrats do? Are WE responsible for the fact that we are ALWAYS at war? "I" don't feel that I'm being represented. I don't want laws that favor the wealthy and corporations. I don't want war! So no, I don't think that I'M the government, are you?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Now that is starting to sound like Daddy Bush's 1,000 Points of Light plan, ya know, the one where churches and communities were supposed to provide for the less fortunate. Not a whole hell of a lot of churches and communities stepped up to the plate on that one.


Have I told you how I feel about most (not all) churches?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> There are good reasons for government to administer public assistance. Religious organizations cannot be trusted to be fair, to be consistent, and to provide help without a heaping helping of Jesus. There is simply too much opportunity for religious organizations to make judgements about worthiness, lifestyle, etc. Imagine, if you will, the degrading process that would probably be part of begging for help if the rednecked bigots in the south were in charge and the applicant was a black person who didn't "look" right? Mandatory drug testing and chastity pledges? Agreements not to have abortions? Demands that the person perform work for the chuch in exchange? What about the very real differences in wealth from north to south? Even if well-meaning, poorer communities could not provide training, treatment or other social services to the needy.
> 
> Church-based charity isn't the answer.


Do you think the government is fair and consistent? I thought you didn't trust the republicans. They are part of the government.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you think the government is fair and consistent? I thought you didn't trust the republicans. They are part of the government.


I was talking about the rank-and-file workers sitting across the desk from applicants who have very clear administrative rules and regulations to guide them. Like 17 volumes of rules and regulations as of many years ago. The administrative rules are written to ensure fairness and consistency in administering government programs. I can assure you, workers must follow those rules or they would find themselves in deep trouble.

Churches, on the other hand, are not subject to the rules government agencies have to follow so long as they don't break the law by discriminating illegally - but even that is open to question because of that "sincerely held belief" thing that the religious scream about. It's up to them who they serve, how they serve and how much they serve. As it should be - they are private.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Have I told you how I feel about most (not all) churches?


No you haven't, but if that attitude is negative it kind of negates your comment about what the Bible tells you. What you interpret may be totally different from what a Baptist minister interprets, or a Methodist minister, or a Catholic priest.

I was raised in a religious household, and in fact, one of my children is a minister. In that upbringing both my parents and my minister taught me to have a responsibility to those less fortunate and to take care of those people in whatever way I could.

I am very well educated. I didn't use my advance degrees to pursue a high paying career. Because I was brought up the way I was, I spent most of my career working in the nonprofit sector providing services and chances to those less fortunate than me. I think I have a much clearer vision of the "poor" than you do.

The battered women's shelter I was associated with provided services regardless of the clients income. Women from middle income or upper income who needed emergency services would be assisted with housing, applying for services etc. Many would continue using those services, including food stamps even after they returned to their abusers. Want to take a guess who abused the system and services the most?? Hint: It wasn't the poor.

As I said In a previous post to you, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I hope you had a super date night last night and a pleasant day with your MIL.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm just wondering what world they live in.


It sounds as if their world halted in the 1950's.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The thing is that those who do their best to help usually do it in silence and without advertising their acts far and wide. We'll not know who they are to give the credit they are due.


It has been our goal to give anonymously to recipients who are not known to us through a few local organizations we trust. We have one where we can drop off non perishable food at some of the libraries which deliver to the county food bank. The clients who come for the food are known only to the food bank workers. We who donate don't know who the clients are. The clients don't know who has donated. If people know one another through other venues, there is no embarrassment at either side.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It has been our goal to give anonymously to recipients who are not known to us through a few local organizations we trust. We have one where we can drop off non perishable food at some of the libraries which deliver to the county food bank. The clients who come for the food are known only to the food bank workers. We who donate don't know who the clients are. The clients don't know who has donated. If people know one another through other venues, there is no embarrassment at either side.


Nice.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I am so outraged right now. My husband just showed me a facebook page started by Joy's mother. Titled "Prayers for Baby Grace", it is outright begging for money. She makes it sound like they have no money coming in, can't afford gas to go to the hospital to visit their child who just has a "few" problems.
> 
> I asked my sister about it. She didn't know anything about it.
> 
> ...


That sounds like the sort of "charity abuse" that has turned so many people off trying to help the truly needy. I guess Tom does not have any control over his outrageous MIL.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> That sounds like the sort of "charity abuse" that has turned so many people off trying to help the truly needy. I guess Tom does not have any control over his outrageous MIL.


At the time I posted about this he didn't even know it exists. Nor did Joy. They are not on facebook and don't care to be.

My sister didn't even know until I told her.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The problem with that is the religious right has bought into the belief that there is a huge culture of "takers" that refuse to work. The old accusation that people expect government to "provide for their every need" spouted by people like Ryan. I have heard that belief repeated in a thousand different ways both in the media and from people I know.
> 
> The problem is, it's a lie. A lie and a red herring to distract from the real economic reasons for the need for public assistance. The 1% have bought republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and to blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates. They use religion as a helpful tool. That plus racism and permission to have a superior attitude toward the poor.
> 
> ...


Newsflash: the 1% have bought the democrats as well. I agree with you that the 1% are sucking up the nation's wealth. But how is forcing the middle class to support half the population, solving that problem? If the problem is a republican problem, then why didn't the dems fix it when they had control?

You think, "the 1% have bought the republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates". OK, I'll give you that BUT in addition, the 1% has bought the democratic leaders to convince their followers that all of the problems are caused by the republicans. In the meantime, each party is so busy blaming the other, that everyone's too busy to actually fix the problem. And that's exactly what the 1% want! The people are occupied with arguing and blaming while NEITHER side fixes anything, because they've been bought.

I'd like to respond to everything you've said, but you've thrown in everything but the kitchen sink. Maybe you think the repubs are responsible for the clogs there?

Here's an interesting article about why both parties are responsible for the problems with the VA, and why those problems go back decades. 
http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/who-really-broke-veterans-affairs-20140520

Just a quick question...if we provide everyone with a free college education, who's going to check our our groceries, or unclog our toilets, or pick up our trash, or fix our cars, or butcher our meat, or empty porta potties, or septic tanks.......?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> deleted rest as not relevant to my response
> 
> Just a quick question...if we provide everyone with a free college education, who's going to check our our groceries, or unclog our toilets, or pick up our trash, or fix our cars, or butcher our meat, or empty porta potties, or septic tanks.......?


The ones with liberal arts degrees who are flipping burgers now. Since we cut out industrial arts and home ec from the curriculum, people who want to be welders, mechanics, plumbers, chefs, and on and on need to go to at least a 2 year associate degree program to learn the basics of their hoped for profession. Back when I was in high school in a farm town, the school had an ag program for the farmers, an auto shop, an electrical shop, welding, cooking , sewing, and business. You could go out from high school with skills that could land you a job. With my academic high school program I still was able to work in an office or in retail and worked part time my four years in college studying to teach home ec. Now there aren't even jobs available for trained people in some areas. Shop classes have been replaced with computer labs, but with kids being able to use computers before they are out of diapers, how many techies will the world need? Are we raising a generation of hackers? Does anybody know how to do anything productive, or is it all shuffling papers from one pile to another? No wonder production jobs have gone overseas. Besides folks like us, how many people know how to make anything?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Newsflash: the 1% have bought the democrats as well. I agree with you that the 1% are sucking up the nation's wealth. But how is forcing the middle class to support half the population, solving that problem? If the problem is a republican problem, then why didn't the dems fix it when they had control?
> 
> You think, "the 1% have bought the republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates". OK, I'll give you that BUT in addition, the 1% has bought the democratic leaders to convince their followers that all of the problems are caused by the republicans. In the meantime, each party is so busy blaming the other, that everyone's too busy to actually fix the problem. And that's exactly what the 1% want! The people are occupied with arguing and blaming while NEITHER side fixes anything, because they've been bought.
> 
> ...


First things first.

When the election dust settled, Democrats had won 59 seats; the Republicans 41.

January 20, 2009 - After suffering a seizure during Barack Obama's inaugural luncheon, Senator Kennedys health forced him to retreat to Massachusetts. Also Senator Al Franken of Minnesota had not been seated because the previous Senator, Norm Coleman challenged the election results.

So at the beginning of his Presidency, Democrats had 57 elected senators55 Democrats and 2 Independents.

Why do you think he had to compromise with Republicans on the Stimulus bill? He didnt have enough Democrats to pass the bill! Why don't you people who moan such disappointment know this?

April 28, 2009 news outlets issued the following report:

Republican Sen. Arlen Specter has switched parties, which would give Democrats a filibuster-proof 60 seats. You do remember the filibuster? The Republicans employed it more than in any time in history for the express purpose of stalling legislation.

Despite the fact that the media hailed the party switch of Arlen Specter and claimed it gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate, the Minnesota seat still remained vacant. The Senate had 56 sitting Democratic members and 2 Independents. Technically, the Senate was two members short, but I'm counting Senator Kennedy even though he was at home ill because he did cast a vote in June. 59

May 15, 2009 Senator Robert Byrd was admitted to the hospital reducing the number of sitting Senators to 55 Democratic members and 2 Independents. 57

July 7, 2009 Al Franken (D) was sworn in after the election dispute over the Minnesota seat was decided in his favor. Senator Kennedy continued to recuperate at his home in Massachusetts and was unable to cast any more votes; Senator Byrd was still in the hospital. The Senate had 56 sitting Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58

July 21, 2009 Senator Byrd returned to the Senate making the count 59 seats. No Senator Kennedy.

Senator Kennedy died August 25, 2009.

The Kennedy seat was vacant from August 25 - September 24 when Paul G. Kirk was appointed to occupy his seat until the completion of a special election. The swearing-in of Kirk gave the Democrats a 60-seat majority.

Democrats had a 60 seat majority from September 24, 2009 thru February 4, 2010. 4 months; not 2 years!!

This does not account for the number of days Congress was not even in session during that time. If one subtracts the number of days Congress was out, the time that President Obama had a Democratic majority in Congress is further reduced by more than 30 days, or another full month.

Of a possible 94 legislative days during that period, the Senate was only in session for 67 days, while the House only labored for 54.

Read more at


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just a quick question...if we provide everyone with a free college education, who's going to check our our groceries, or unclog our toilets, or pick up our trash, or fix our cars, or butcher our meat, or empty porta potties, or septic tanks.......?


In today's world you already need a college education to do any of those jobs, since college graduates are doing them now.

Don't worry, Nebs. Back in the day when college WAS available to most everyone, we still had people doing those jobs. Not everyone wants to be a CEO or a Wall Street banker. I'm more worried about who will teach our children when the repubs are successful in getting rid of public education and start hiring people who have no degree to teach - as they currently are doing in Arizona. Typical republican regressive agenda.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> In today's world you already need a college education to do any of those jobs, since college graduates are doing them now.
> 
> Don't worry, Nebs. Back in the day when college WAS available to most everyone, we still had people doing those jobs. Not everyone wants to be a CEO or a Wall Street banker. I'm more worried about who will teach our children when the repubs are successful in getting rid of public education and start hiring people who have no degree to teach - as they currently are doing in Arizona. Typical republican regressive agenda.


Back in the day unions had apprentice programs. Somebody who dropped out of school could learn a good trade there. Then the rules changed. And today's college education isn't quite as good as the high school education I got.

Oh and I wouldn't worry much about what plumbers earn. I wonder if she's ever tried to call one out on a weekend, a holiday. Or even during the daytime.

We just dropped $4000 getting our drains fixed. One bathroom, no dishwasher...best price we could find. Daytime, non emergency.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> We just dropped $4000 getting our drains fixed. One bathroom, no dishwasher...best price we could find. Daytime, non emergency.


Ouch.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Let's hear a solution, for once, Nebs. What is your proposed answer?


I propose that we all work together to wrest control of our government, away from those who can afford to buy it. I propose that every candidate be given equal airtime to tell us what they will do. And debate questions be submitted by the public and drawn randomly. I think there should be term limits BUT only because the majority of voters are lazy and will vote for an incumbent, because they're familiar with their name. I also believe that career politicians do not act in our best interest. I also think that we should support and encourage more parties. Having two major parties creates an adversarial atmosphere.

Then I think that everyone should be taxed fairly, whether that means a flat tax or a graduated one. There should be no loopholes or deductions. The wealthy avoid paying taxes because they've gotten the politicians to give them the deductions they need, to avoid paying their fair share. It doesn't come close to comparing to the deductions that the average person, gets to take. It doesn't help us to raise the tax rate on the wealthy, because they only pay taxes on a fraction of their income. If everyone paid a lower rate, but on ALL of their income, that would bring in the funds in a fair manner. I don't even care if there's a graduated rate, in which the poor pay nothing. I'm only interested in making the system fair to those who can't afford lobbyists, lawyers and accountants.

That brings me to lobbyists. Lobbying should be illegal. It is bribery, pure and simple. Our representatives should be listening and responding to their constituents, no one else.

Then, I believe that our government needs to put the needs of the people over corporations. That starts with bringing back the jobs. The trade treaties that have been passed in recent history, have all favored corporations, not the people. It's made the 1% incredidibly rich, having goods manufactured overseas, for pennies on the dollar. But its bankrupted the American people. There can be no economic recovery without jobs. People cannot afford to buy American made goods without a job. The government's job should be making it easier for people to create jobs. That starts with a level playing field.

That said, I understand that we've millions of people on food stamps and welfare because there are not enough jobs. But pouring welfare over the people does nothing to fix the problem. They need jobs! If we put to work, everyone who was able to work, we wouldn't have a welfare problem and we wouldn't disagree on whether it was right or wrong to support them. Neither would we have income inequality if everyone paid their fair share of taxes and if there were more jobs than people seeking them. If someone comes up with a million dollar idea, they deserve it, as long as they aren't receiving special favors. People need opportunity. I think that we could eliminate the need for most welfare, just by creating a level playing field.

I also think that the petrodollar has played a big part in the loss of American jobs. Other countries have had to create cheap goods to sell for dollars, so that they can buy oil. I think that all countries should be able to buy oil based upon real currencies that are backed by something real. And that Americans should be working to supply American needs. Imports should have tariffs, so that our goods can compete fairly. However, getting rid of the petrodollar would break our economy in the short term. But I think it's going to happen anyway. When it does, I'd like to see a do over, with people who really care about our country and her people.

So, long story short, I think that people need to take care of those who truly need. But governments should take care that very few people, need. Those who are able to work, should be allowed and required to work. Those who are not able, should be taken care of. I think that if everyone had opportunities and were only limited by their own willingness, we'd see more caring and more sharing. It's hard to share when you don't have enough to pay your bills. I'd even agree with government welfare IF it were only for those who cannot work. But then, if we don't get the jobs back, we're all sunk anyway, because how long can the middle class support everyone?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Seems to be shut up and let us who know better take care of it.


Thanks


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks


That was NOT a compliment.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I propose that we all work together to wrest control of our government, away from those who can afford to buy it.


How? Our voices have been drowned out by corporate money. No matter how loud we shout, the politicians obey the money - not us.

I've stated my solution. Do you have a better one?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Ouch.


Bigger ouch coming. We have no choice but a new roof. Turns out that our homeowner's insurance will not cover the roof any more due to it being over 20 years old. We were never notified of that while the escrow account was still paying the taxes and insurance. But we paid off the house last year and this year was the first we had to take care of it ourselves. Who knows how many years we've been paying the same premium but if we'd had another hurricane, a bad storm or tree landing on the house damage to our roof was not covered.

But the roof at least will be less expensive than the drains. $6000 for a lot more work, (total replacement, wood and all) so I see the roof as actually costing us less than the plumbing did.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> How? Our voices have been drowned out by corporate money. No matter how loud we shout, the politicians obey the money - not us.
> 
> I've stated my solution. Do you have a better one?


All I see is same old, same old.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Trouble is, they DON'T know.
> 
> I would refer everyone again to the video found at
> 
> ...


I agree that there's a problem. I agree with, what the problem is. But simple wealth redistribution won't provide a solution. It's a multi faceted problem that requires a multi faceted solution, starting with acknowledging and eliminating the corruption within our government. Without that, there is no solution.

You and I agree that we need to get money out of politics. That's the place to start.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that there's a problem. I agree with, what the problem is. But simple wealth redistribution won't provide a solution. It's a multi faceted problem that requires a multi faceted solution, starting with acknowledging and eliminating the corruption within our government. Without that, there is no solution.
> 
> You and I agree that we need to get money out of politics. That's the place to start.


Get corruption out of government, get big corporate money out of election of government officials......are you getting dizzy from the merry-go-round, because that is what it is, corruption in government is fueled by big corporate money which gets you corruption in government paid for by big corporate money.....see what I mean, round and round we go.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> NEB said
> We think it is morally reprehensible to TAKE from one group of people to give to another. And it isn't always the needy who are the recipients of the taking. We believe that people should take care of each other, not governments. We also believe that the vast majority of people do better with a hand up, than a hand out. There are exceptions but most people are better off with opportunity than welfare.
> --------------
> 
> ...


IMO, it's not the government's job to teach people how to pull themselves up. It's governments job to see to it that opportunities exist that make people want to pull themselves up. I believe that it's perfectly fine to make money and use that money to increase one's holdings, as long as that money was earned on a level playing field, without the government providing preferential circumstances for one over another. People who work harder or longer, or take risks deserve to be rewarded. The problem lies with those who influence lawmakers, seeking government contracts or legislation and regulations that benefit them. Or those who seek trade agreements that benefit the few instead of the many. If people are given equal opportunity, they are only limited by what they do with it.

The few cannot support the many. We need jobs.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope NEBs and those on the right look at it - it is very scary and is not getting better.


I've watched it several times. It does a good job explaining the problem, but offers no solution. So what do you propose?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that there's a problem. I agree with, what the problem is. But simple wealth redistribution won't provide a solution. It's a multi faceted problem that requires a multi faceted solution, starting with acknowledging and eliminating the corruption within our government. Without that, there is no solution.
> 
> You and I agree that we need to get money out of politics. That's the place to start.


Yes! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, it's not the government's job to teach people how to pull themselves up. It's governments job to see to it that opportunities exist that make people want to pull themselves up. I believe that it's perfectly fine to make money and use that money to increase one's holdings, as long as that money was earned on a level playing field, without the government providing preferential circumstances for one over another. People who work harder or longer, or take risks deserve to be rewarded. The problem lies with those who influence lawmakers, seeking government contracts or legislation and regulations that benefit them. Or those who seek trade agreements that benefit the few instead of the many. If people are given equal opportunity, they are only limited by what they do with it.
> 
> The few cannot support the many. We need jobs.


Again, I agree especially with

_The problem lies with those who influence lawmakers, seeking government contracts or legislation and regulations that benefit them. Or those who seek trade agreements that benefit the few instead of the many. If people are given equal opportunity, they are only limited by what they do with it. _


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> No you haven't, but if that attitude is negative it kind of negates your comment about what the Bible tells you. What you interpret may be totally different from what a Baptist minister interprets, or a Methodist minister, or a Catholic priest.
> 
> I was raised in a religious household, and in fact, one of my children is a minister. In that upbringing both my parents and my minister taught me to have a responsibility to those less fortunate and to take care of those people in whatever way I could.
> 
> ...


I believe there are good churches and bad. The bible speaks to this in the book of Revelations. While I didn't grow up in a religious household, I too, believe that we have a responsibility to give and do for others. I've done that. I've given whenever I could, even when I didn't have a lot. I spent nearly 30 years volunteering in schools. I worked 3-4 days a week, anywhere from 4-6 hours per day. I taught a lot of children to read, write and to do math. I gave books and paper and pencils to children who had none. I brought my children's coats and hats and clothing for children who needed them. I helped teachers so that they had more time to help the children. I am not uncaring. I have devoted my life, to doing for others. That's the way I think it should be.

I know that you don't really know me, and you think you have a clearer vision of the poor, than I do. But I've been poor most of my life, so I doubt it. My mother was a drug addict (doctor administered) and an alcoholic. My father was a traveling salesman. Many nights, dinner was cornbread and if we were lucky, a half slice of bacon to go with it. Sometimes it would be a soft boiled egg or pancakes. When times were good, we might have meatloaf with lots of oatmeal added, to make one pound of hamburger feed six people. Every year I got two dresses for school and one for Sunday school. Everything else was hand me downs from my sister.

I didn't have the opportunity to go after advanced degrees. My husband and I worked to put him through school. After I got laid off, we were five of us, living on $12,000 a year. We found that not paying daycare and other expenses, we were better off with my not working. So, we made it work. So, I've been there. Please don't think that I don't know or don't care. I want the poor to be able to make their lives better, like we did.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> No you haven't, but if that attitude is negative it kind of negates your comment about what the Bible tells you. What you interpret may be totally different from what a Baptist minister interprets, or a Methodist minister, or a Catholic priest.
> 
> I was raised in a religious household, and in fact, one of my children is a minister. In that upbringing both my parents and my minister taught me to have a responsibility to those less fortunate and to take care of those people in whatever way I could.
> 
> ...


PS: date night turned out to be dinner with two of our sons, dils and three grandsons. Then we went to one son's for pie. It was fun, but not relaxing. Today, we took mil shopping at Kohls, then lunch at Cracker Barrel, then grocery shopping. That took the whole day. Tomorrow, I'm doing nothing. Well, knitting. Thanks for asking.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It has been our goal to give anonymously to recipients who are not known to us through a few local organizations we trust. We have one where we can drop off non perishable food at some of the libraries which deliver to the county food bank. The clients who come for the food are known only to the food bank workers. We who donate don't know who the clients are. The clients don't know who has donated. If people know one another through other venues, there is no embarrassment at either side.


The Omaha food bank delivers food to the entire state. So, the needs are many.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The ones with liberal arts degrees who are flipping burgers now. Since we cut out industrial arts and home ec from the curriculum, people who want to be welders, mechanics, plumbers, chefs, and on and on need to go to at least a 2 year associate degree program to learn the basics of their hoped for profession. Back when I was in high school in a farm town, the school had an ag program for the farmers, an auto shop, an electrical shop, welding, cooking , sewing, and business. You could go out from high school with skills that could land you a job. With my academic high school program I still was able to work in an office or in retail and worked part time my four years in college studying to teach home ec. Now there aren't even jobs available for trained people in some areas. Shop classes have been replaced with computer labs, but with kids being able to use computers before they are out of diapers, how many techies will the world need? Are we raising a generation of hackers? Does anybody know how to do anything productive, or is it all shuffling papers from one pile to another? No wonder production jobs have gone overseas. Besides folks like us, how many people know how to make anything?


I agree with you about high school programs. Our school district is bringing back programs like that as an alternative for kids who want them. As far as shuffling papers? There are no more papers. That's why they're teaching everybody computers.  My sons work in the field of computers. It pays very well.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> First things first.
> 
> When the election dust settled, Democrats had won 59 seats; the Republicans 41.
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> In today's world you already need a college education to do any of those jobs, since college graduates are doing them now.
> 
> Don't worry, Nebs. Back in the day when college WAS available to most everyone, we still had people doing those jobs. Not everyone wants to be a CEO or a Wall Street banker. I'm more worried about who will teach our children when the repubs are successful in getting rid of public education and start hiring people who have no degree to teach - as they currently are doing in Arizona. Typical republican regressive agenda.


Arizona allows teachers with no degree?!? In our school district, you have two years to get your masters, or you're out. Principals must have a doctorate. I have never heard of repubs wanting to do away with public education. Where did you hear that?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Back in the day unions had apprentice programs. Somebody who dropped out of school could learn a good trade there. Then the rules changed. And today's college education isn't quite as good as the high school education I got.
> 
> Oh and I wouldn't worry much about what plumbers earn. I wonder if she's ever tried to call one out on a weekend, a holiday. Or even during the daytime.
> 
> We just dropped $4000 getting our drains fixed. One bathroom, no dishwasher...best price we could find. Daytime, non emergency.


Yikes! For drains? Do you mean sewer pipes? That, I could believe. 
That's terrible. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. That's a lot.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> That was NOT a compliment.


I know!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How? Our voices have been drowned out by corporate money. No matter how loud we shout, the politicians obey the money - not us.
> 
> I've stated my solution. Do you have a better one?


I say, we start by voting for someone we've never heard of before. :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Bigger ouch coming. We have no choice but a new roof. Turns out that our homeowner's insurance will not cover the roof any more due to it being over 20 years old. We were never notified of that while the escrow account was still paying the taxes and insurance. But we paid off the house last year and this year was the first we had to take care of it ourselves. Who knows how many years we've been paying the same premium but if we'd had another hurricane, a bad storm or tree landing on the house damage to our roof was not covered.
> 
> But the roof at least will be less expensive than the drains. $6000 for a lot more work, (total replacement, wood and all) so I see the roof as actually costing us less than the plumbing did.


Good grief! When it rains, it pours. We're working on medical bills. They're only slightly less.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Get corruption out of government, get big corporate money out of election of government officials......are you getting dizzy from the merry-go-round, because that is what it is, corruption in government is fueled by big corporate money which gets you corruption in government paid for by big corporate money.....see what I mean, round and round we go.


I know, but if we want things to change, WE have to change. We have to stop electing the guys with all the money for commercials and fancy ads. We need to vote for the guy/gal "they" don't want.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Once in a while, it happens. We agree! :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Again, I agree especially with
> 
> _The problem lies with those who influence lawmakers, seeking government contracts or legislation and regulations that benefit them. Or those who seek trade agreements that benefit the few instead of the many. If people are given equal opportunity, they are only limited by what they do with it. _


Twice in one night? :shock:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yikes! For drains? Do you mean sewer pipes? That, I could believe.
> That's terrible. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. That's a lot.


No, I mean drains...kitchen, bathroom and laundry. About 5 hours of work.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good grief! When it rains, it pours. We're working on medical bills. They're only slightly less.


Right now, no...when it rains, it leaks.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Arizona allows teachers with no degree?!? In our school district, you have two years to get your masters, or you're out. Principals must have a doctorate. I have never heard of repubs wanting to do away with public education. Where did you hear that?


Are you not aware of the trend toward charter schools?

I'm speaking for Arizona here. I don't know much about what is going on in other states except for the fundamentalists who are trying to get science out of textbooks and replace it with creationism as an "alternative" to the theory of evolution as well as wanting to rewrite and sanitize history. But that's another discussion.

Several years ago the idea of state funding for private education became a big issue in Arizona. Supposedly the public schools were wasting money and turning out graduates who couldn't read, blah blah blah. Of course, Arizona has always occupied a cozy spot at the bottom of the list when it came to spending on education and there were those who wanted to ensure we would stay there. So laws were passed giving public tax money to private schools, some that were supposedly "magnet" schools so parents would have a choice and because free enterprise and competition would raise quality for everyone. There is little in the way of oversight of these charter schools and anyone can open one. Many were opened, and a lot of them are demonstrably christian. As in teaching religion with tax money. There were lawsuits, but the charter supporters prevailed. Teachers do NOT have to be certificated. That's one problem.

Then some genius had the bright idea to give tax credits to people who donated to schools of their choice, up to $500 a year on a joint tax return. My own daughter, who has sent both of the grandchildren to private, Catholic schools has been after me for years to donate. Write a check for $500 to the school as a donation and get a direct, dollar-for-dollar credit on state taxes. I won't do it because that $500 tax credit comes from the education fund, impoverishing public education and functionally giving it to a religious school. Don't get me wrong - my grandchildren attend/attended the best prep schools in the Southwest. Last week my granddaughter was recruited by Harvard due to her academic chops and the high standards at her school. But if my kid can put out $15,000 a year for high school tuition, she doesn't need my help. And I will not rob the public schools of my tax money. The amount diverted from public education in Arizona every year is in the millions. For every dollar going to private schools, the budget for public education suffers - and there are public schools in Arizona with the ceilings falling, where there are inadequate books...you get the idea. It's wrong.

In the meantime, Arizona has been on other paths to privatization. Like building prisons everywhere (with taxpayer dollars to the tune of $3 billion in 2016 alone) then turning them over to private companies, who bring prisoners into Arizona from all over the country, making a profit on every prisoner they incarcerate. And our governors have stopped talking about public education and have recently only referred to public education with the term "government schools." Remember, in this state, government is seen as oppressive at the very least and as a bad thing in general. This choice of words is no accident and is definitely indicative of an attitude.

I firmly believe that private companies, knowing there are billions of dollars spent on education across the country, see privatization of schools as nothing more than an opportunity to rake some of those billions into their own pockets. Just as they have done with prisons.

I will never believe that if public, non-profit education has X-amount of dollars to spend per child, that a private enterprise can be more efficient at spending the same amount on education, provide as good a product and still squeeze profit from their business. Something has to give somewhere.

Of course, there have been abuses. Schools owned by families where dad is the principal, mom is the administrator and their children are the teachers. What could possibly go wrong? Or schools that don't manage their money and suddenly close mid-year, leaving hundreds of students standing at the door. Fiscal mis-management of all kinds. It's a cesspool. That is not to say there are no successful charter schools. They exist. Some do quite well. But the overall quality of public education is suffering because - freedom.

Remind me again which political party is in favor of free enterprise and which party supports public education? Which party worships the dollar and which party is dedicated to the common good? Charter schools are growing in number across the country. This is a republican agenda - to get their grubby hands on as much tax money as they can.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So, what?


You said Obama had 2 years of control of congress. It was more like a few months.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Are you not aware of the trend toward charter schools?


I cannot believe that she has not seen the push to close public schools, dismantle the Department of Education privatize all school sytems...federally.

What does she think 'no child left behind' has done? The most insidious part of that little piece of chicanery is the provision that (public) schools must show significant improvement over the previous year. What that comes down to is that schools that hit every one of the marks set for them get closed because there's no place to make more improvements. We've had it happen here with 3 schools. Two others were 'given' the students that would have attended those schools but not the extra money they would need.

And here in SC you don't even need a high school diploma to be a substitute teacher. All you need is a phone and be willing to show up.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

for more information on the ALEC agenda for schools, there is a link. ALEC is in total control of the Arizona legislature.

http://theunitedstatesofalec.org/files/2012/09/USofALEC_FactSheet_Education.pdf


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No, I mean drains...kitchen, bathroom and laundry. About 5 hours of work.


Holy cow! I can't believe it!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Arizona allows teachers with no degree?!? In our school district, you have two years to get your masters, or you're out. Principals must have a doctorate. I have never heard of repubs wanting to do away with public education. Where did you hear that?


I so disagree with this. I agree that to qualify as a teacher one should be required to obtain a degree and then a post grad diploma in their chosen specialty but a masters? And a doctorate for a principal? This is why kids are being 'out-educated' or 'out-monied' because of these types of prerequisites/expectations. It's outrageously expensive to pay for a degree course here in Australia let alone a graduate diploma (I recently looked into a grad dip course to qualify as a paramedic - the course is 1 year off campus and costs $19,000.00 AUD or $14,514.10 USD); so many people can't raise that kind of money and I would think in a lot of cases, continue to work in jobs that are beneath their capabilities if they can find a job at all with no hope of furthering their education beyond a college degree.

A masters or doctorate doesn't necessarily equate with a quality outcome. It's completely subjective and I suggest in many cases, merely adds kudos to the organisation employing that person. The mark of a good teacher is way more than academic success. Much, much more. And those qualities are often never realized until the students of such teachers are successful themselves. Absolutely ridiculous.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Right now, no...when it rains, it leaks.


  :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just a quick question...if we provide everyone with a free college education, who's going to check our our groceries, or unclog our toilets, or pick up our trash, or fix our cars, or butcher our meat, or empty porta potties, or septic tanks.......?


Quick answer; I won't repeat what DGreen or JBandsma has just said.

You need a college degree just to get in the front door and be interviewed for those jobs. Make corporations stop insisting on that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Quick answer; I won't repeat what DGreen or JBandsma has just said.
> 
> You need a college degree just to get in the front door and be interviewed for those jobs. Make corporations stop insisting on that.


Yep. You only have a high school diploma? Your application is going right in the round file.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Are you not aware of the trend toward charter schools?
> 
> I'm speaking for Arizona here. I don't know much about what is going on in other states except for the fundamentalists who are trying to get science out of textbooks and replace it with creationism as an "alternative" to the theory of evolution as well as wanting to rewrite and sanitize history. But that's another discussion.
> 
> ...


I am familiar with charter schools. But the ones I've heard of, require the teachers to have a degree. Not always an education degree, but a person with a math degree could teach math or a person with an english degree could teach english etc...

Here in Nebraska, independent charter schools are not yet legal, but the push is on. They've been trying to get a bill passed and now the school board of the largest school district (Omaha Public Schools) has said that they would support charter schools if they had control over funding and oversight. I've only heard good things about charter schools but I can see where abuses or educational neglect could take place, without oversight.

That said, I believe that our public schools are guilty of educational neglect. I believe that public education has been deliberately dumbed down, to create a class of "worker bees". Our children are given " just enough" education, to become the working class. Certain children with potential, are nourished and encouraged but most are shuffled through the system, without regard. Children are born with an inate ability to learn. That ability is being squashed by "teaching to the test". Testing has become more important than learning. Teaching to the test, limits learning. It squashes curiosity and tries to force everyone to learn the same way. But we know that children are not all the same. Some learn by seeing, some by hearing, some by saying, some by writing and some by feeling. We need a variety of experiences in order to reach all of them. Children are like sponges. They soak up whatever you put before them. Why are they being limited by tests? Why not fill them up with knowledge?

I saw education changing when we lived in Wichita. They'd adopted a " Whole Language" approach. They did not teach handwriting, spelling or grammar. They thought it would make children hate reading and writing. Errors on papers were not corrected and math problems with wrong answers were counted correct, as long as they showed their work. It was crazyland. The straw that broke the camel's back for me occurred when my oldest was a freshman in all honor's classes. He written an essay that didn't even have a thesis statement. It was a jumble of words that said nothing and was full of grammatical errors. I told him to rewrite it but he said he needed to study for a big test. He said, if he printed it out on the computer, he'd get a A. (Computers were still a novelty, then) Well, he turned it in and received an A, and I told my husband we needed to move as soon as possible. Education in Kansas was the worst! Well, now that's spread throughout the country and we've a whole generation that's learning nonsense.

We are told that the problem is lack of money. But I know that isn't true. When I went to school, we we had paper, pencils and textbooks. We learned. It's about what we're teaching and how we're teaching. Children need to learn the basics before they move on to more abstract subjects. The connections in the brain, need to be built while they're young. Feed them knowledge. Let the teachers do their jobs. Don't make them teach to the test. We've been throwing millions of dollars into education, buying all of the latest gadgets. All that's done is take away from the basic foundation that children need to succeed. Early learning causes more connections to be built between the different parts of the brain. Let them learn.

I know that I'll be called a conspiracy theorist for this, but you should read what Charlotte Iserbyt has to say about what's happening to education in America. She served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Office of Educational Research and Improvement within the US Department of Education under Ronald Reagan. She says that are children are being dumbed down intentionally. People often say, that if these things were true, somebody would leak the truth. Well, she's done so, and so have others. What they get for it, is being labeled a crazy. It would benefit everyone to see what she has to say, whether you believe it or not.
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> You said Obama had 2 years of control of congress. It was more like a few months.


I don't think I actually said he had two years BUT, if the dems thought that the repubs were corrupt and were allowing corporations to dictate, but that they themselves had nothing to hide, THAT should have been their priority. I propose that the dems are guilty of the same and even though they throw around lots of words, its in their interest to preserve the status quo. If they had wanted to eliminate corruption, they could have done something about it, while they held the power. But they wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I cannot believe that she has not seen the push to close public schools, dismantle the Department of Education privatize all school sytems...federally.
> 
> What does she think 'no child left behind' has done? The most insidious part of that little piece of chicanery is the provision that (public) schools must show significant improvement over the previous year. What that comes down to is that schools that hit every one of the marks set for them get closed because there's no place to make more improvements. We've had it happen here with 3 schools. Two others were 'given' the students that would have attended those schools but not the extra money they would need.
> 
> And here in SC you don't even need a high school diploma to be a substitute teacher. All you need is a phone and be willing to show up.


There has been no push to close schools in Nebraska. ALL teachers, including substitute teachers, must have a teaching degree. Our legislators just come up with new ways to throw money at the problem. Our school districts come up with creative ways to hide the problems, like teaching to the test or changing the grading system to pass those who have failed. "No child left behind" has been a disaster for teachers. They've had to spend precious time trying to do in some cases, the impossible. Since the introduction of "inclusion", we have some children in our classrooms that cannot learn the material. They just can't! And yet, our teachers are required to do the impossible, and make them learn. As you mentioned, its also impossible for schools that hit every mark, to improve or a child who exceeds expectations, to improve, more than they already have.

So, " No Child Left Behind" was signed into law in 2002. We've known for a long time that it hinders teaching and learning. Why hasn't it been repealed? There must obviously, be an agenda that keeps it in place because NEITHER side has repealed it. SAYING it's bad, does nothing to fix it. But then, BOTH sides SAY a lot. They're just short on DOING.

IMO, people who live in states that allow teachers without degrees or charter schools without oversight, should be screaming from the rooftops, attending legislative sessions and school board meetings. They should be flooding their legislator's offices with phone calls. People need to be involved when it comes to the education of our children.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think I actually said he had two years BUT, if the dems thought that the repubs were corrupt and were allowing corporations to dictate, but that they themselves had nothing to hide, THAT should have been their priority. I propose that the dems are guilty of the same and even though they throw around lots of words, its in their interest to preserve the status quo. If they had wanted to eliminate corruption, they could have done something about it, while they held the power. But they wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.[/


Your last statement irritates me :

Neb -- Your posts continue to make statements that are 
your opinion, and written as absolute fact. I think some of what you say might have some truth in it. You do not have all the answers. Once person, (You) doesn't know what causes many of the things you state as fact.

I think you should ( although I realize you can't with what you are doing at home), get out and try to change all the evil things your Government and the Liberals and anyone who doesn't agree with you are doing.

You accuse and accuse but I still never hear any answers to the questions of what do you think should be done to correct the corruption and problems? you just state your opinions as facts but give no answer as to how to correct what you find wrong. Even though we ask and ask.

Is there a group you belong to that feels the way you do, or are you a voice in the wilderness?. I am not being sarcastic. I guess it is because you don't know the answers any more than any other American. This group fights for what they think can start changes. People like Green put their money where their mouth is. You seem to feel that you are the only person who KNOWS all the answers. I wish I knew the answers. I certainly find it difficult to read your accusations or statements (whichever they are) and never read a solution, or your thoughts about a solution.

Obviously the problems go very deep and you seem to make it very simplistic == it isn't.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> People need to be involved when it comes to the education of our children.


Why the hell do you think we aren't?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> for more information on the ALEC agenda for schools, there is a link. ALEC is in total control of the Arizona legislature.
> 
> http://theunitedstatesofalec.org/files/2012/09/USofALEC_FactSheet_Education.pdf


All of this talk of corporations taking over education and sucking funds out of education, brings to my mind, Common Core. I can't understand why people don't see it as the same thing. Microsoft is controlling what our children learn and they're making lots of money off of it. With common core, our children spend more time taking tests, than learning. And yet, the vast majority of states (not Nebraska) have adopted it. In addition to profiting off of common core, Microsoft is using it to create a data base on all of the students and they families. That information is for sale. Why aren't people screaming about Microsoft? Is it only other corporations that people worry about?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am familiar with charter schools. But the ones I've heard of, require the teachers to have a degree. Not always an education degree, but a person with a math degree could teach math or a person with an english degree could teach english etc...
> 
> Here in Nebraska, independent charter schools are not yet legal, but the push is on. They've been trying to get a bill passed and now the school board of the largest school district (Omaha Public Schools) has said that they would support charter schools if they had control over funding and oversight. I've only heard good things about charter schools but I can see where abuses or educational neglect could take place, without oversight.
> 
> ...


I agree with a great deal of what you say - up to the last bit about Iserbyt. But whether we agree on that is immaterial - there's a lot of common ground between us on this.

In Ariona, lack of money is a very real concern and has been for a long time. Arizona has been something like 47th in the country on school spending for decades. When the recession hit, education funding was slashed - with the promise of repayment for capital expenditures when the economy improved to a certain level. When the economy got better, school funding was cut again so we could build more prisons and give tax breaks to corporations to lure them to Arizona. The schools took their case to court and won, but the new governor and our legislature have decided to ignore the ruling and when they approved the 2016 budget last week (in the dead of night - literally), school funding was slashed again, but they DID fund a new prison to the tune of $3 billion. It will be turned over to a private company.

In the meantime, people justify cutting school funding because schools are underperforming and don't deserve any more money because they just waste it.

There is no doubt that public education has major problems. I have a high school diploma and some college plus technical training as a graphic designer. Lots of reasons I didn't go to Stanford (which I could have done) and didnt continue my education; mostly because I was supporting the ex-man who was a professional student for many years. Another story. Even with my somewhat truncated education, I still feel I was better prepared with a high school education than many college graduates with BS degrees. Today's high school diplomas? Oh dear. Some graduates can barely read, let alone formulate a sentence, they can't spell and their grammar is apalling. I'm not a math whiz, so I can't comment on that. In a world where communication is vital, today's high school graduate could not present a thesis, develop an argument, support it with facts, or draw conclusions in writing. Or avoid looking like an idiot in the process. I've worked for many who lacked these basic communication skills. It makes me want to weep.

I paid close attention to what my children were learning in school. When my son was in fourth grade he came home one day and announced that he had learned to multiply that day. Two days later, he announced he had learned to divide. Whoa. I asked him, "What is 6 times 8?" and he admitted he did not know, but that he had a matrix with all the math facts to refer to. After meeting with his teacher who told me that rote learning of math facts was passe, I went to the local teacher's supply store and bought flash cards, gave them to my kid and I drilled him for weeks while he pissed and moaned. But he was #1 in his class in math that year and for years afterward. Similar story about daughter, who in high school wrote an essay full of sweeping, unsubstantiated generalizations, nonsense conclusions, grammatical errors and spelling horrors. I had a red pencil, by the way, and I used it liberally. She claimed the teacher was more interested in a student's ability to "express themselves" than anything else. Hmm. We had a discussion about expectations at that point. Today she laughs about what a tough teacher I was - but the point is she appreciates what I did.

I am in strong favor of standardized testing. I am strongly in favor of performance standards for teachers. I do NOT think money is the answer to every problem, but the old truth holds in education as in anything else - you get what you pay for. When a teaching career is a prescription for poverty, we need to reasses our values.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb -- Your posts continue to make statements that are
> your opinion, and written as absolute fact. I think some of what you say might have some truth in it. You do not have all the answers. Once person, (You) doesn't know what causes many of the things you state as fact.
> 
> I think you should ( although I realize you can't with what you are doing at home), get out and try to change all the evil things your Government and the Liberals and anyone who doesn't agree with you are doing. You accuse and accuse but I still never hear any answers to the questions of what do you think should be done to correct the corruption and problems? you just state p your opinions as facts but give no answer as to how to correct what you find wrong. Even though we ask and ask. Is there a group you belong to that feels the way you do, or are you a voice in the wilderness. I am not being sarcastic. I guess it is because you don't know the answers any more than any other American. This group fights for what they think can start changes. People like Green put their money where their mouth is.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Why the hell do you think we aren't?


Good answer. I think most parents are involved with the education of their children, and a lot are not happy with how the education is being taught. Another eg. of implying that parents are not worried and involved with the education of their children. Just not true of everyone. That is my point. Neb -YOu can't paint us all with the same brush, the same color!!!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The Omaha food bank delivers food to the entire state. So, the needs are many.


I started a reply and it got disappeared somehow, so let me try again.

Sometimes we don't realize how great and widespread the need is in our communities. And we don't realize who some of the needy are.

People think Jews are rich. In my county, one of the more affluent in the country, there is enough need that our Jewish Family Services reaches out to get donations of Kosher food baskets for the Holy Days of Rosh Hashana and Passover for qualifying needy families. JFS is non sectarian in all its services except for these two projects.

The local synagogues and the Jewish Community Center solicit members to volunteer to fill the basket. A list of the foods required, so that all recipients receive the same level of help, is given to each of us who volunteer. In recent years there have been over 100 such families.

In addition, there is a local organization founded by a recovering (over 25 years) alcoholic which sponsors a food truck that goes to areas where residents do not usually have transportation or to groceries and are at a poverty level. Area churches, synagogues, schools, Columbiettes, and others take a day a week to a day a month and supply food, cook it, and transport it to the stops on their route. At my senior center our knitting group makes hats and scarves for the mobile soup kitchen to distribute to clients.

I shudder to think of the need in areas that are mostly poor without enough of us who have the resources to provide the help.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I started a reply and it got disappeared somehow, so let me try again.
> 
> Sometimes we don't realize how great and widespread the need is in our communities. And we don't realize who some of the needy are.
> 
> ...


When the needs of so many are not met, I wonder where the republicans get the idea that their tax money is taking care of people cradle-to-grave and that is somewhow a driving force in our economy.

The problems of the homeless, the mentally ill, the hungry, are overwhelming and are not being met as congress continues to slash spending on social services. And they slash taxes for business. And the 1% get richer and richer. Wrong priorities.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I so disagree with this. I agree that to qualify as a teacher one should be required to obtain a degree and then a post grad diploma in their chosen specialty but a masters? And a doctorate for a principal? This is why kids are being 'out-educated' or 'out-monied' because of these types of prerequisites/expectations. It's outrageously expensive to pay for a degree course here in Australia let alone a graduate diploma (I recently looked into a grad dip course to qualify as a paramedic - the course is 1 year off campus and costs $19,000.00 AUD or $14,514.10 USD); so many people can't raise that kind of money and I would think in a lot of cases, continue to work in jobs that are beneath their capabilities if they can find a job at all with no hope of furthering their education beyond a college degree.
> 
> A masters or doctorate doesn't necessarily equate with a quality outcome. It's completely subjective and I suggest in many cases, merely adds kudos to the organisation employing that person. The mark of a good teacher is way more than academic success. Much, much more. And those qualities are often never realized until the students of such teachers are successful themselves. Absolutely ridiculous.


I agree that a masters doesn't equate with a quality outcome. I live in the best school district in the state. Appearances are everything. The district facilitates these teachers getting their masters. There are many in-service programs that contribute to that goal. They can also earn reimbursement.

The district likes to brag that they're the best. Their per pupil costs are under $10,000. They've a 94% graduation rate. Just five years ago, it was 98%. ACT scores average just over 23. The dropout rate is less than 1%. I also need to mention that Nebraska is an "open enrollment" state. That means that students from any school district can transfer to another at no cost. Free transportation is offered to transfer students who qualify.

So, while a masters doesn't equate to better teaching, the reputation of the district does. Teachers want jobs in this district because it pays more and works hard to keep its reputation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Quick answer; I won't repeat what DGreen or JBandsma has just said.
> 
> You need a college degree just to get in the front door and be interviewed for those jobs. Make corporations stop insisting on that.


Nah! I know people who do these jobs. They don't need a degree. Maybe in New York? But not here. Most of these jobs don't even require a high school diploma, here.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

My son who has MS is on disability and food stamps. There are times when he needs help from the food bank but can't get there because he can no longer drive. He lives in a very small town, no public transportation, no taxis (even if he had the money for one) and the food bank is in the next county.

What really upsets me is that he's very active in his church and can't get anyone to help him with transportation...or even an occasional meal.

We're taking him to his brother's wedding with us but going up a day early with a lot of stuff from our freezer. Stuffed peppers, stuffed cabbage, stocks, soups, tomato sauce, some vegetables, some fruits. And we're also going to take rice, beans, and pasta and hope that'll help him get through at least a while when things get tight again.

But, even with the MS, he gets accused of scamming the system.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that a masters doesn't equate with a quality outcome. I live in the best school district in the state. Appearances are everything. The district facilitates these teachers getting their masters. There are many in-service programs that contribute to that goal. They can also earn reimbursement.
> 
> The district likes to brag that they're the best. Their per pupil costs are under $10,000. They've a 94% graduation rate. Just five years ago, it was 98%. ACT scores average just over 23. The dropout rate is less than 1%. I also need to mention that Nebraska is an "open enrollment" state. That means that students from any school district can transfer to another at no cost. Free transportation is offered to transfer students who qualify.
> 
> So, while a masters doesn't equate to better teaching, the reputation of the district does. Teachers want jobs in this district because it pays more and works hard to keep its reputation.


Arizona spends less than $4,000 per student. Administrative costs are under 10%. And the legislature is specifically targeting administrative personnel for the chopping block. And they wonder why public schools are in trouble.

Here in Payson, it has been seriously proposed that schools spend money ONLY for teachers, transportation and maintenance. No administration, no counselors, no field trips or sports, no music or art. I wonder who they think would keep records and manage those teachers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yep. You only have a high school diploma? Your application is going right in the round file.


Not here! I cannot believe, that there's anywhere in the country that requires one to have a degree to check out groceries, empty septic tanks or pick up trash. You guys ought to move. You live in crazyland.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nah! I know people who do these jobs. They don't need a degree. Maybe in New York? But not here. Most of these jobs don't even require a high school diploma, here.


I'm calling male bovine excrement on that. This is SC and you can't even get in the door for any job without a degree unless you want to be a substitute teacher...that you can do.

Don't need a high school diploma? Try getting a dishwashing job without one.

It isn't 1950 anymore. Stop pretending that it is.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I started a reply and it got disappeared somehow, so let me try again.
> 
> Sometimes we don't realize how great and widespread the need is in our communities. And we don't realize who some of the needy are.
> 
> ...


It is amazing what a group of people with good hearts and a sense of responsibility can do if they get together and DO things. I doubt that this type of charity will ever be stopped, it is personal and it is honest, and those who help do so because they care.

Our seniors group in Alberta made up hampers of basic foods for seniors and even those others who have fallen through the cracks. We also supported Meals on wheels where people pay a small amount to get a hot meal 7 days a week, delivered to their door. It is not surprising that many many, Canadians and Americans help those who need help. The problem is the numbers far outweight the help.

We are also in a recession up here and we have places set up by the Government'- examplel Inn from the cold where women and children and sometimes families are given a place to live until they find jobs and are able to leave. (different groups set up help for them so that they can manage on their own, sometimes help to finish a class, or an outfit to wear for a job interview etc.

There is also the mustard seed, and The Salvation Army, which by the way I helped with, because every dollar raised in Calgary went to help others. There is the mustard seed for homeless people. Started by an individual which has helped the homeless for many years. and on and on. People do care but it doesn't help everyone. Programs have to be set up and hopefully people will support those programs to help - that is what we do, we don't go out and find a person on the streets and give him money, we go to places that help people learn to help themselves. There are people who are unable to help themselves, that are not deadbeats. I know because I have worked to help them over the years. Everyone has to help, and the rich could help so much more but don't in many cases. Then there are those who have money who have helped with millions of dollars donations and who have gone and built houses for those who have lived through hurricanes. :You can't say that every group is full of exactly the same people. Most groups have people from all walks of life helping. The Government HAS to be involved in my opinion, but it has to be carefully set up with limits and follow ups and it has to follow guidelines. The Government parties have to involve themselves positively, not fight against help, for political reasons. It sounds like a dream world, doesn't it?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I'm calling male bovine excrement on that. This is SC and you can't even get in the door for any job without a degree unless you want to be a substitute teacher...that you can do.
> 
> Don't need a high school diploma? Try getting a dishwashing job without one.
> 
> It isn't 1950 anymore. Stop pretending that it is.


I am not kidding! Both of my daughter's birth parents dropped out and didn't get a GED. They always have crappy jobs, but there seems to be no shortage of crappy jobs. My dd also has a friend who dropped out six years ago. He finally got his GED last year, so that he could get a better job. Before the GED, he worked as the guard at the gate, of a major lumber store, checking people's receipts and making sure they only took what they paid for. There's no shortage of crummy jobs in Nebraska. In fact, our unemployment rate stayed very low throughout the recession. There are "help wanted" signs everywhere. Believe it or not.

In addition, there are good paying jobs for people without a degree. My middle son got a job in high school, with a suburban phone/cable company. He started out fixing their computers and is now their network manager. He has approx 10 people working under him and is responsible for keeping their servers up and running. He makes good money and is going to college at night, to get his degree. My youngest son hated school. He was the smartest of the three, but absolutely refused to go to college. He too, works with computers. He worked for a major charitable organization (fixing their computers) for several years and now works for an international construction company, setting up networks and hardware for remote jobs, in addition to keeping the corporate network running. They also operate servers for other corporations, such as hospitals. He does other stuff that I don't understand, as well. He earns over twice the average salary for Nebraskans.

So, honestly, here I Nebraska you don't need a degree. You just need to work hard.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

No brain infection but the doctors have said that if she hadn't been in the hospital when her temperature dropped she would have died.

The thought now is that the part of the brain that regulates temperature has been compromised. 

But maybe this is a good thing...that part of the family that has been so sure that one day they will wake up and Grace will be normal are now starting to admit that she's always going to be a special needs child. Still not believing that it's going to be rather severe, though.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No brain infection but the doctors have said that if she hadn't been in the hospital when her temperature dropped she would have died.
> 
> The thought now is that the part of the brain that regulates temperature has been compromised.
> 
> But maybe this is a good thing...that part of the family that has been so sure that one day they will wake up and Grace will be normal are now starting to admit that she's always going to be a special needs child. Still not believing that it's going to be rather severe, though.


Good news that there is no brain infection...I will keep her in my prayers and thoughts.

Any reactions from your nephew and his wife about the Facebook page and Gofundme page? I don't really know how I feel about it, if assistance was needed that woman should certainly have gotten the parents permission.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am familiar with charter schools. But the ones I've heard of, require the teachers to have a degree. Not always an education degree, but a person with a math degree could teach math or a person with an english degree could teach english etc...
> 
> Here in Nebraska, independent charter schools are not yet legal, but the push is on. They've been trying to get a bill passed and now the school board of the largest school district (Omaha Public Schools) has said that they would support charter schools if they had control over funding and oversight. I've only heard good things about charter schools but I can see where abuses or educational neglect could take place, without oversight.
> 
> ...


Whole Language is no longer in vogue. A balanced approach between phonics , sight word and literature is being used most commonly. We know have the Common Core which has upped the ante and people complain. In NY charter schools do not outperform regular schools. They are good, however, for union busting. I have worked my whole career in many aspects of education, mostly with the underclass. Their communities are depressed and the parents in many instances do not value education as they had bad experiences themselves. I have been to their homes where I have seen no books or toys but only violent videos. When I was doing preschool special ed, I would bring in educational games and the kids were hungry to learn. But the parents' priorities were clothes with labels and the ill-trained teachers would focus on making bulletin boards and would not even look at the the kids. I was supposed to be working with one developmentally delayed child but eventually I and the other special ed teachers took over the room while the "teachers" redecorated the boards. Also the calibre of teacher is not the same as it was in my day. We had minimal options after college so teaching seemed to be the most attractive. Now a days, we would have gotten MBAs, MDs, law degrees, etc. The dopes are now the ones who teach. If a smart woman is motivated to teach, she leaves after a few years due to the constant need to get more credits and her desire not to waste her time with kids who abuse her and do not give a bleep. The problem is overwhelming and I do not have good answers to the problem. The root of the problem is the community and parents' values. How do you change that?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Good news that there is no brain infection...I will keep her in my prayers and thoughts.
> 
> Any reactions from your nephew and his wife about the Facebook page and Gofundme page? I don't really know how I feel about it, if assistance was needed that woman should certainly have gotten the parents permission.


And not put the account in HER name. No, no word on that yet.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> And not put the account in HER name. No, no word on that yet.


I would be so tempted to report the woman to the cops as running a scam.

Little Gracie's needs are so dire, but apparently the current health insurance is covering medical costs. And it should be the parents who decide whether or not a fund raiser is needed. Where I live we have had community fund raisers to help families whose children had severe illnesses. They were usually initiated by the family church, the local rescue squad, or some other community organization, not by a family member. And they were regulated, set up as a registered charity, set up with a board and audited. There were a couple of occasions where somebody misused the funds, one I recall being the non custodial father of a child who was injured in a house fire. There was an arrest and prosecution.

I hope the other two little girls are thriving. From earlier pictures, Natalie looked like a spunky little girl who was looking around and whose brain was working full time.

Just hope Grace can be kept comfortable.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would be so tempted to report the woman to the cops as running a scam.


They wouldn't take much notice of it being reported from 5 states away. Or you can bet I would try. I'd probably alienate the whole family if I did but I've done that before. I lived through it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> They wouldn't take much notice of it being reported from 5 states away. Or you can bet I would try. I'd probably alienate the whole family if I did but I've done that before. I lived through it.


Well I am sure I am one among many who respect your integrity. I admire straight shooters who don't try to BS their way through life.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Not here! I cannot believe, that there's anywhere in the country that requires one to have a degree to check out groceries, empty septic tanks or pick up trash. You guys ought to move. You live in crazyland.


Nobody _needs_ degrees for those jobs. They're simply a screening tool, allowing HR departments to ignore the majority of job applicants.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I'm calling male bovine excrement on that. This is SC and you can't even get in the door for any job without a degree unless you want to be a substitute teacher...that you can do.
> 
> Don't need a high school diploma? Try getting a dishwashing job without one.
> 
> It isn't 1950 anymore. Stop pretending that it is.


Maybe it still is in Omaha.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> They wouldn't take much notice of it being reported from 5 states away. Or you can bet I would try. I'd probably alienate the whole family if I did but I've done that before. I lived through it.


What about reporting it to Facebook or gofundme...I know you said you don't have a Facebook account, but someone in your family probably does?

Facebook probably would be disturbed about being part of a scam, don't know about gofundme.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> What about reporting it to Facebook or gofundme...I know you said you don't have a Facebook account, but someone in your family probably does?
> 
> Facebook probably would be disturbed about being part of a scam, don't know about gofundme.


I wouldn't count on that. FB is notorious for ignoring serious violations of their own standards but hitting on what is truly innocuous or even the uplifting. Remove pictures of breastfeeding but leave full frontal male nudity. I don't know if you ever saw the picture of the woman who had to have a double mastectomy then had her chest tattooed in a halter of flowers. It's beautiful, an example of making lemonade out of lemons. and every time someone posts it, FB calls it offensive and removes it.

This one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2281345/Photo-breast-cancer-survivors-tattooed-chest-shared-thousands-Facebooks-attempts-ban-it.html


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I wouldn't count on that. FB is notorious for ignoring serious violations of their own standards but hitting on what is truly innocuous or even the uplifting. Remove pictures of breastfeeding but leave full frontal male nudity. I don't know if you ever saw the picture of the woman who had to have a double mastectomy then had her chest tattooed in a halter of flowers. It's beautiful, an example of making lemonade out of lemons. and every time someone posts it, FB calls it offensive and removes it.
> 
> This one.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2281345/Photo-breast-cancer-survivors-tattooed-chest-shared-thousands-Facebooks-attempts-ban-it.html


That tattoo was beautiful. If I had to have a mastectomy, my tattoo would be around my stomach.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I wouldn't count on that. FB is notorious for ignoring serious violations of their own standards but hitting on what is truly innocuous or even the uplifting. Remove pictures of breastfeeding but leave full frontal male nudity. I don't know if you ever saw the picture of the woman who had to have a double mastectomy then had her chest tattooed in a halter of flowers. It's beautiful, an example of making lemonade out of lemons. and every time someone posts it, FB calls it offensive and removes it.
> 
> This one.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2281345/Photo-breast-cancer-survivors-tattooed-chest-shared-thousands-Facebooks-attempts-ban-it.html


Tattoo is beautiful!! I know very little about Facebook, I have an account, but only open it when one of the few Facebook friends I have posts something.

Thanks for the link. Please do let us know what happens with those two accounts, someone needs to seriously shake that woman awake.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> No brain infection but the doctors have said that if she hadn't been in the hospital when her temperature dropped she would have died.
> 
> The thought now is that the part of the brain that regulates temperature has been compromised.
> 
> But maybe this is a good thing...that part of the family that has been so sure that one day they will wake up and Grace will be normal are now starting to admit that she's always going to be a special needs child. Still not believing that it's going to be rather severe, though.


Oh! I'm glad to hear that. Thanks.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Whole Language is no longer in vogue. A balanced approach between phonics , sight word and literature is being used most commonly. We know have the Common Core which has upped the ante and people complain. In NY charter schools do not outperform regular schools. They are good, however, for union busting. I have worked my whole career in many aspects of education, mostly with the underclass. Their communities are depressed and the parents in many instances do not value education as they had bad experiences themselves. I have been to their homes where I have seen no books or toys but only violent videos. When I was doing preschool special ed, I would bring in educational games and the kids were hungry to learn. But the parents' priorities were clothes with labels and the ill-trained teachers would focus on making bulletin boards and would not even look at the the kids. I was supposed to be working with one developmentally delayed child but eventually I and the other special ed teachers took over the room while the "teachers" redecorated the boards. Also the calibre of teacher is not the same as it was in my day. We had minimal options after college so teaching seemed to be the most attractive. Now a days, we would have gotten MBAs, MDs, law degrees, etc. The dopes are now the ones who teach. If a smart woman is motivated to teach, she leaves after a few years due to the constant need to get more credits and her desire not to waste her time with kids who abuse her and do not give a bleep. The problem is overwhelming and I do not have good answers to the problem. The root of the problem is the community and parents' values. How do you change that?


Whole language was a fad, just like new math, d'nealian handwriting, and now common core. Educators are quick to try any new thing, and quick to drop it. IMO, common core is one of the worst. They take a simple math problem and turn it upside down and inside out. Just look at these images. Does this make sense to anyone? http://www.google.com/search?q=common+core+math&hl=en-US&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JuoFVcuwOYqxogTmgoCwCQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=960&bih=552
They talk the big talk about the wonderful new standards, but does the average person have any idea, what they're teaching today's children? And what about the data mining that's taking place? Has anyone considered that? Here's a comprehensive article that explains the data mining. There are two (at least) important links within the article, one from Politico and one from Huff Post. I recommend them. http://stopcommoncoreillinois.org/privacy-issues-data-collection-from-cradle-to-adulthood/
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/data-mining-your-children-106676.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-greene/common-core-standards_b_5346907.html

I'm too tired to discuss the social issues that plague us, right now. Later.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> And not put the account in HER name. No, no word on that yet.


Your nephew's mil put this in HER name? Creepy!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Your nephew's mil put this in HER name? Creepy!


Yes, she did. You'd have to know her to understand exactly why I want her strung up by her heels.

Everything with her always comes down to money. And I don't for a minute think that any money that is donated will find its way to those who could use it Anyone with these kinds of problems can use extra cash but she's saying that they can't afford gas to get to the hospital and making it look like Tom and Joy have nothing at all coming in and are close to bankruptcy and having their house repossessed ... inferences except for actually saying they couldn't afford gas. But the truth is that they might be a bit tight right now but nowhere near as bad as she makes it sound. Not to mention that she did this on her own without the knowledge or approval of the family.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Nobody _needs_ degrees for those jobs. They're simply a screening tool, allowing HR departments to ignore the majority of job applicants.


Our unemployment rate is low. The last I heard, it was under 3%. And I don't think it ever, even reached 5%. So, HR departments here, take whomever they can get.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I wouldn't count on that. FB is notorious for ignoring serious violations of their own standards but hitting on what is truly innocuous or even the uplifting. Remove pictures of breastfeeding but leave full frontal male nudity. I don't know if you ever saw the picture of the woman who had to have a double mastectomy then had her chest tattooed in a halter of flowers. It's beautiful, an example of making lemonade out of lemons. and every time someone posts it, FB calls it offensive and removes it.
> 
> This one.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2281345/Photo-breast-cancer-survivors-tattooed-chest-shared-thousands-Facebooks-attempts-ban-it.html


I sure don't see anything wrong with that. I'm glad I'm not on facebook.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> That tattoo was beautiful. If I had to have a mastectomy, my tattoo would be around my stomach.


Nooo, because they remove your breasts at the point of origination, not migration. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yes, she did. You'd have to know her to understand exactly why I want her strung up by her heels.
> 
> Everything with her always comes down to money. And I don't for a minute think that any money that is donated will find its way to those who could use it Anyone with these kinds of problems can use extra cash but she's saying that they can't afford gas to get to the hospital and making it look like Tom and Joy have nothing at all coming in and are close to bankruptcy and having their house repossessed ... inferences except for actually saying they couldn't afford gas. But the truth is that they might be a bit tight right now but nowhere near as bad as she makes it sound. Not to mention that she did this on her own without the knowledge or approval of the family.


Wow! I can't believe that. What a witch! So, people who have less than they do, will be donating to this account, which may not even go to them. I hope you're encouraging your sister to tell her son.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yes, she did. You'd have to know her to understand exactly why I want her strung up by her heels.
> 
> Everything with her always comes down to money. And I don't for a minute think that any money that is donated will find its way to those who could use it Anyone with these kinds of problems can use extra cash but she's saying that they can't afford gas to get to the hospital and making it look like Tom and Joy have nothing at all coming in and are close to bankruptcy and having their house repossessed ... inferences except for actually saying they couldn't afford gas. But the truth is that they might be a bit tight right now but nowhere near as bad as she makes it sound. Not to mention that she did this on her own without the knowledge or approval of the family.


One word description for her: SCUM


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> That tattoo was beautiful. If I had to have a mastectomy, my tattoo would be around my stomach.


LOL...reminds of a time a year or so ago when a friend and I were shopping, or I should say she was shopping, for new bras, I asked her what her bra size was and she said "38 long".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nooo, because they remove your breasts at the point of origination, not migration. :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Wow! I can't believe that. What a witch! So, people who have less than they do, will be donating to this account, which may not even go to them. I hope you're encouraging your sister to tell her son.


Oh yes. She hasn't said anything but I'm sure she told them. She was as shocked as I was when I told her. She had absolutely no idea.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> One word description for her: SCUM


To give you an idea of what lengths she'll go to, she got Joy's father to fork over the money for their wedding. (I think he should have been a little smarter than to give it to her) Then she told Joy that if she invited her father to the wedding SHE wouldn't pay for it. I think she was really hoping that Joy wouldn't want to get married without her father there. (Joy didn't know until later that it was his money but still...if it had been me, I'd have said ok, we'll elope and you can stay home)


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> LOL...reminds of a time a year or so ago when a friend and I were shopping, or I should say she was shopping, for new bras, I asked her what her bra size was and she said "38 long".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Oh yes. She hasn't said anything but I'm sure she told them. She was as shocked as I was when I told her. She had absolutely no idea.


I forget how you found out.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> To give you an idea of what lengths she'll go to, she got Joy's father to fork over the money for their wedding. (I think he should have been a little smarter than to give it to her) Then she told Joy that if she invited her father to the wedding SHE wouldn't pay for it. I think she was really hoping that Joy wouldn't want to get married without her father there. (Joy didn't know until later that it was his money but still...if it had been me, I'd have said ok, we'll elope and you can stay home)


The queen of mean.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I forget how you found out.


My husband has a Facebook account. He saw it and showed it to me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> My husband has a Facebook account. He saw it and showed it to me.


Oh, thanks. I hope that nobody donates. It sounds like there's no way the money would go to Grace.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Newsflash: the 1% have bought the democrats as well. I agree with you that the 1% are sucking up the nation's wealth. But how is forcing the middle class to support half the population, solving that problem? If the problem is a republican problem, then why didn't the dems fix it when they had control?
> 
> You think, "the 1% have bought the republican leaders to convince their followers to look the other way and blame the poor while they continue to suck up the nation's wealth at faster and faster rates". OK, I'll give you that BUT in addition, the 1% has bought the democratic leaders to convince their followers that all of the problems are caused by the republicans. In the meantime, each party is so busy blaming the other, that everyone's too busy to actually fix the problem. And that's exactly what the 1% want! The people are occupied with arguing and blaming while NEITHER side fixes anything, because they've been bought.
> 
> ...


So you think a person could not go to college, get a business degree and open his own plumbing business and then unclog your toilet. How about the auto mechanic I saw at a muffler place that was having a terrible time with the computer, because he said he didn't take typing in school, he took auto mechanics. Anyone who owns a business or hopes too would benefit from some form of college. Doing the jobs you mention does not require an uneducated person. People usually hope for advancement in their jobs.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> First things first.
> 
> When the election dust settled, Democrats had won 59 seats; the Republicans 41.
> 
> ...


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> Thank you for telling this story again. Those on the right repeat over and over and over, "They had control for 2 years, why didn't they do it then?" No matter how many times you repeat the above story, they like telling their version better, even though it is a lie.


Their version fits better with their overall narrative, which is "Obama has accomplished nothing."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> In today's world you already need a college education to do any of those jobs, since college graduates are doing them now.
> 
> Don't worry, Nebs. Back in the day when college WAS available to most everyone, we still had people doing those jobs. Not everyone wants to be a CEO or a Wall Street banker. I'm more worried about who will teach our children when the repubs are successful in getting rid of public education and start hiring people who have no degree to teach - as they currently are doing in Arizona. Typical republican regressive agenda.


When the main goal is profit instead of the quality of education, you know who will get the short end of the stick.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think I actually said he had two years BUT, if the dems thought that the repubs were corrupt and were allowing corporations to dictate, but that they themselves had nothing to hide, THAT should have been their priority. I propose that the dems are guilty of the same and even though they throw around lots of words, its in their interest to preserve the status quo. If they had wanted to eliminate corruption, they could have done something about it, while they held the power. But they wouldn't bite the hand that feeds them.


As the president just said he did have his hands full when he took office with what the Bush administration had done to our economy. I think he had a few things on his mind, besides the fact that he knew immediately that the republicans were refusing to offer support of any kind.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

How evil is Tom Cotton?

Once in the House, Cottons anti-Iran advocacy showed a mean streak. When, in 2013, a new Iran sanctions bill came before the lower chamber, Cotton introduced an amendment that would automatically punish family members of sanctions violators. There would be no investigation, Cotton explained during the mark-up. Itd be very hard to demonstrate and investigate to conclusive proof. Cotton wanted to punish innocent people; he called it corruption of blood, and extended the category to include parents, children, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, grandparents, great grandparents, grandkids, great grandkids.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> Thank you for telling this story again. Those on the right repeat over and over and over, "They had control for 2 years, why didn't they do it then?" No matter how many times you repeat the above story, they like telling their version better, even though it is a lie.


It's just a bunch of excuses. The democrats had no problem forcing the aca on us. Wonder of wonders. If they thought that something so big as corruption in the rep party was going on, I think they could have done something about, whether they had two months or two years. I propose that they didn't, because they take money from the same corporations. Anyone who thinks that the reps are the only ones who are being bought, is either lying to themselves or are a fool.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's just a bunch of excuses. The democrats had no problem forcing the aca on us. Wonder of wonders. If they thought that something so big as corruption in the rep party was going on, I think they could have done something about, whether they had two months or two years. I propose that they didn't, because they take money from the same corporations. Anyone who thinks that the reps are the only ones who are being bought, is either lying to themselves or are a fool.


The point of the post was a lie told by republicans over and over to make Obama and the democrats look bad. You can try to turn it around and make it about the ACA or corruption, or taking money from corporations, make it about anything you want but it doesn't change the facts. They still had control for just 2 months. That is what was being talked about.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> The point of the post was a lie told by republicans over and over to make Obama and the democrats look bad. You can try to turn it around and make it about the ACA or corruption, or taking money from corporations, make it about anything you want but it doesn't change the facts. They still had control for just 2 months. That is what was being talked about.


Actually, the point was, that her response to my comment, (that if the reps were only ones being bought, why didn't the dems do something about it when they had control), was nothing but excuses.

I don't care who lied. As far as I'm concerned, they all lie. My point was that if the reps are the only ones taking money, then the dems should have done something about it. Even if they only had one DAY. Kind of important, don't ya think?

That is what was being talked about.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Actually, the point was, that her response to my comment, (that if the reps were only ones being bought, why didn't the dems do something about it when they had control), was nothing but excuses.
> 
> I don't care who lied. As far as I'm concerned, they all lie. My point was that if the reps are the only ones taking money, then the dems should have done something about it. Even if they only had one DAY. Kind of important, don't ya think?
> 
> That is what was being talked about.


Make it about whatever you want, cause I don't care. All I commented on was the amount of time the democrats had control of congress. For Gods sake, move on.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> Make it about whatever you want, cause I don't care. All I commented on was the amount of time the democrats had control of congress. For Gods sake, move on.


Sometimes I wonder if she keeps repeating this stuff to try to convince us...or herself.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Sometimes I wonder if she keeps repeating this stuff to try to convince us...or herself.


I don't know, but I know what I was talking about, and she just has to make it about something else. No matter what is said, we are wrong to believe as we do. I think I need to ignore her.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I see the Israelis are holding their election today. Should be interesting. 

I am also watching the President answer back about the letter. He showed he was really upset.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I see the Israelis are holding their election today. Should be interesting.
> 
> I am also watching the President answer back about the letter.


Ha Ha. Yes today meaning tomorrow - Tuesday - which may already be today in Israel. Pray for Hertzog.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ,"was nothing but excuses."
> 
> Here we go again with interpretation, she gave you facts and you interpreted it as excuses. Feel free, but facts are facts.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Knitter from Nebraska said:
> 
> 
> > ,"was nothing but excuses."
> ...


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat repeat repeat.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Actually, the point was, that her response to my comment, (that if the reps were only ones being bought, why didn't the dems do something about it when they had control), was nothing but excuses.
> 
> I don't care who lied. As far as I'm concerned, they all lie. My point was that if the reps are the only ones taking money, then the dems should have done something about it. Even if they only had one DAY. Kind of important, don't ya think?
> 
> That is what was being talked about.


Not much point in 'talking about it' when you never ever say, ""OH, that is a legitimate reason, you might be right and it might have been possible that Kennedy's illness and the other reasons you give, might have made it hard to accomplish much"". It would have been even more fair if you had said, "also the fact that the Right had no interest in solving any of the problems which made it more difficult" you never admit anything like that. ever!

That is the reason we are finding it hard to hold a conversation with you. you are always right, never accept the truth even though it is proven and even though you were around during the time discussed. It is still not a good enough reason. nothing is. That is why it is not a conversation, because we dont talk, because every time we show you a reason to disprove what you say -you either don't believe it or you ignore it and change to something else. I don't remember one time where you have accepted any of our statements, even though as in cases like the above, you were around when those things happened but you still don't accept them as truth. Or you say you don't care about the reason. I wish you could try to do what he tries to do with no help from the opposition and people loudly talking like you do whether it is the truth or not. You are so judgmental and incorrect I am finding it hard to read your posts.

Anyway time to make dinner -- I am frustrated once again.

I am trying to find out what is happening in Israel. By the way I watched Cotton on TV - he is another one like Cruz, truth and logic are not part of his vocabulary. I think he thinks of himself as a giant killer ( he comes across as arrogant. I really enjoyed the President's statements. I wish he had told them off before this. So there you are are some more thoughts from a Canadian!!

I made some chicken soup, garlic bread and salad for supper. I threw everything into the pot and was it ever good! I am going to go and have some more. See you all later.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Their version fits better with their overall narrative, which is "Obama has accomplished nothing."


But as Paul Harvey says, "the rest of the story", whom does he have to thank for that?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat repeat repeat.


I am so frustrated with the answers we always get even though she knows it was the truth!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am so frustrated with the answers we always get even though she knows it was the truth!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


You are not the only one.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> You are not the only one.


Being right, (even if you are wrong and know it) matters more than the truth. I am getting tired of always trying to prove the truth to her even when I know she was there and knows the truth but wants to believe it isn't the truth - (make any sense???) She is never wrong, always right and she doesn't discuss, she hammers at people and I am weary of it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Being right, (even if you are wrong and know it) matters more than the truth. I am getting tired of always trying to prove the truth to her even when I know she was there and knows the truth but wants to believe it isn't the truth - (make any sense???) She is never wrong, always right and she doesn't discuss, she hammers at people and I am weary of it.


You know how it gets, "My mind is made up so don't confuse me with the facts." When the truth undermines what someone wants to believe, they get very defensive about their position.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> When the truth undermines what someone wants to believe, they get very defensive about their position.


Can't argue with that!! 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> Make it about whatever you want, cause I don't care. All I commented on was the amount of time the democrats had control of congress. For Gods sake, move on.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> changed my mind.


Good Idea. You are a provocateur.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

This has nothing whatever to do with SQM's post. Which I don't agree with.


I had no intention of hurting Nebs. I hope she knows that. Politics has nothing to do with personal friendship. She takes us on and I just reacted and have spoken my feelings. She speaks her mind and let the chips fall where they may. I did the same. I consider her a friend -whom I disagree with and I stated why.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Good Idea. You are a provocateur.


your opinion is noted. You do a bit of that yourself.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> This has nothing whatever to do with SQM's post. Which I don't agree with.
> 
> I had no intention of hurting Nebs. I hope she knows that. Politics has nothing to do with personal friendship. She takes us on and I just reacted and have spoken my feelings. She speaks her mind and let the chips fall where they may. I did the same. I consider her a friend -whom I disagree with and I stated why.


If you words were directed to me, they would hurt.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> If you words were directed to me, they would hurt.


There is a difference between disagreeing with a person's opinion and debating your own side of the issue vs. denigrating the person. Designer debates, she doesn't demean.

Sure, she doesn't need anybody defending her, and Neb doesn't either. They are both grown ups who happen to be on different sides of the debate.

If more people in the US legislature conducted themselves the way Designer and Neb do we would have a better run country. At the least we would present a more civil and civilized face to the world instead of our being a laughing stock because of these immature boys in their Armani suits and bespoke shirts.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


One word? Three pages of incredibly long posts all saying the same things which have been shown over and over and over to be lies is ONE WORD?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> your opinion is noted. You do a bit of that yourself.


A bit????


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> There is a difference between disagreeing with a person's opinion and debating your own side of the issue vs. denigrating the person. Designer debates, she doesn't demean.
> 
> Sure, she doesn't need anybody defending her, and Neb doesn't either. They are both grown ups who happen to be on different sides of the debate.
> 
> If more people in the US legislature conducted themselves the way Designer and Neb do we would have a better run country. At the least we would present a more civil and civilized face to the world instead of our being a laughing stock because of these immature boys in their Armani suits and bespoke shirts.


Quote from Shirley:

Being right, (even if you are wrong and know it) matters more than the truth. I am getting tired of always trying to prove the truth to her even when I know she was there and knows the truth but wants to believe it isn't the truth - (make any sense???) She is never wrong, always right and she doesn't discuss, she hammers at people and I am weary of it.

You call that a debate? Shirley owns the truth? Interesting.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

I am stepping out of this, I am having to bite my tongue, because what I really am itching to say would probably get me suspended.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> I am stepping out of this, I am having to bite my tongue, because what I really am itching to say would probably get me suspended.


PM me. I would be happy and excited to hear from you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There is a difference between disagreeing with a person's opinion and debating your own side of the issue vs. denigrating the person. Designer debates, she doesn't demean.
> 
> Sure, she doesn't need anybody defending her, and Neb doesn't either. They are both grown ups who happen to be on different sides of the debate.
> 
> If more people in the US legislature conducted themselves the way Designer and Neb do we would have a better run country. At the least we would present a more civil and civilized face to the world instead of our being a laughing stock because of these immature boys in their Armani suits and bespoke shirts.


--------------
Thank you Marilyn for understanding where I was coming from. We have had discussions before and it has been difficult for us both to find a middle ground where we can 'discuss' that is all I wanted. I was frustrated today and once again I tried to express myself - I expressed my frustration, and have done so before.

I think Nebs knows I mean nothing personal, I certainly hope so. A appreciate it that you understood and I think Nebs will too.

I don't intend to answer sqm's charges any further. She has every right to her opinion. One thing about this thread that I value - is that we CAN disagree with each other - rather than be like sheep following the leader. I am proud of this group. I am not here to 
be patted on the back for my opinions. I am here to speak my thoughts as do we all. Let the chips fall where they may. Once again, I appreciate it that you understand that.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> PM me. I would be happy and excited to hear from you.


I have no interest in a conversation with you, however others may be interested


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Quote from Shirley:
> 
> Being right, (even if you are wrong and know it) matters more than the truth. I am getting tired of always trying to prove the truth to her even when I know she was there and knows the truth but wants to believe it isn't the truth - (make any sense???) She is never wrong, always right and she doesn't discuss, she hammers at people and I am weary of it.
> 
> You call that a debate? Shirley owns the truth? Interesting.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Quote from Shirley:
> 
> Being right, (even if you are wrong and know it) matters more than the truth. I am getting tired of always trying to prove the truth to her even when I know she was there and knows the truth but wants to believe it isn't the truth - (make any sense???) She is never wrong, always right and she doesn't discuss, she hammers at people and I am weary of it.
> 
> You call that a debate? Shirley owns the truth? Interesting.


 :shock: :shock:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"I don't intend to answer sqm's charges any further. She has every right to her opinion. One thing about this thread that I value - is that we CAN disagree with each other - rather than be like sheep following the leader. I am proud of this group. I am not here to 
be patted on the back for my opinions. I am here to speak my thoughts as do we all. Let the chips fall where they may. Once again, I appreciate it that you understand that."



Yes! Exactly!!!!!!!

But sometimes it seems like we don't grant this to Nebs.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am stepping out of this, I am having to bite my tongue, because what I really am itching to say would probably get me suspended.


I am gone too:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


Opinions are one thing, but facts are another. Whether Obama had 2 years of control in congress was the fact in dispute. We all know Nebs hates Obama, which is her right. You know the saying - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> "I don't intend to answer sqm's charges any further. She has every right to her opinion. One thing about this thread that I value - is that we CAN disagree with each other - rather than be like sheep following the leader. I am proud of this group. I am not here to
> be patted on the back for my opinions. I am here to speak my thoughts as do we all. Let the chips fall where they may. Once again, I appreciate it that you understand that."
> 
> Yes! Exactly!!!!!!!
> ...


I wasn''t going to answer. But this group has welcomed Nebs and have conversed with her over and over. She has very strong opinions and expresses them and doesn't hesitate to do so.

However when she knows what has happened as in the case today, and still attacks,and doesn't accept what she knows is the truth, I don't think we are wrong to call her on it. Especially when what we say happened since she has been on these threads.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I likely will regret trying to answer you but I don't agree with you at all and I don't really care for your statements about this situation as I spoke my thoughts and I spoke the truth.


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## annamatilda (Aug 10, 2012)

I have been lurking for awhile. What I have been reading sounds like a bunch of children. They want their way. Totally closed to facts. They are insisting that KFN support her statements with websites, which she does. But they are either unable or unwilling to do the same. Unless the rest of you include your websites when you state a so-called fact. You are not to be believed.

Common sense on this thread is not so common.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for your opinion. It is noted.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

annamatilda said:


> I have been lurking for awhile. What I have been reading sounds like a bunch of children. They want their way. Totally closed to facts. They are insisting that KFN support her statements with websites, which she does. But they are either unable or unwilling to do the same. Unless the rest of you include your websites when you state a so-called fact. You are not to be believed.
> 
> Common sense on this thread is not so common.


Do you have specifics to discuss?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

annamatilda said:


> I have been lurking for awhile. What I have been reading sounds like a bunch of children. They want their way. Totally closed to facts. They are insisting that KFN support her statements with websites, which she does. But they are either unable or unwilling to do the same. Unless the rest of you include your websites when you state a so-called fact. You are not to be believed.
> 
> Common sense on this thread is not so common.


Hi Lurker,

I get upset when the ridicule sets in.

Most are good with citations here but there is always a bias in choice of what websites to use.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


I think I'll join with you in this. She believes - and maybe with good reason (though I hope not) - that the Dems don't really want to accomplish anything more than the Reps; maybe they just want it to look as if they do. So no matter how we qualify it, Dems are equally in the wrong. Of course that doesn't explain why they "pushed through" the ACA.

I think our Nebraskan friend is a very complex person.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Good Idea. You are a provocateur.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There is a difference between disagreeing with a person's opinion and debating your own side of the issue vs. denigrating the person. Designer debates, she doesn't demean.
> 
> Sure, she doesn't need anybody defending her, and Neb doesn't either. They are both grown ups who happen to be on different sides of the debate.
> 
> If more people in the US legislature conducted themselves the way Designer and Neb do we would have a better run country. At the least we would present a more civil and civilized face to the world instead of our being a laughing stock because of these immature boys in their Armani suits and bespoke shirts.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

annamatilda said:


> I have been lurking for awhile. What I have been reading sounds like a bunch of children. They want their way. Totally closed to facts. They are insisting that KFN support her statements with websites, which she does. But they are either unable or unwilling to do the same. Unless the rest of you include your websites when you state a so-called fact. You are not to be believed.
> 
> Common sense on this thread is not so common.


Why would someone need to include websites backing up stories that were in the news prominently? Either you were reading newspapers in 2009-10 or you weren't. Or you should be doing crosswords to keep your brain going, not calling people names.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm sure glad I didn't read any of this last night. I never would have gotten to sleep. As it was, I didn't get to sleep til nearly 1 am. I was teaching myself to make diaper covers, the much more modern version of plastic pants. 

Here's how I feel, SQM is right. You guys aren't just attacking my opinions, you're attacking me, personally. Yesterday's, brouhaha began when I suggested that if the reps were the only corrupt ones, the dems should have done something about it. The response was that the dems were only in control for two months. I said that it didn't matter how long they were in control, it should have been a priority. Then, I got accused of denying that the dems only had control for two months, which I didn't. When I tried to steer the conversation back to WHY the dems did nothing, I was attacked for denying the two month thing.

If the reps were corrupt but the dems weren't, the dems would know ahead of time, that they wouldn't be able to get bills passed. Their first priority would have been to clean house or get rid of the corruption. But they made no move to do that, and my proposal, was that the reason is, that they are just as corrupt. No one here, said anything to negate that. They just danced around the subject. 

So, is there anyone here, who wants to try and tell me that the dems don't take corporate money? Or vote in a manner that favors corporate interests? THAT'S the point.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


Thank you, SQM! It does feel harsh to me. I don't mind defending my opinions, but I keep being accused of thinking I'm the only one who "knows". We all think our opinions are right. And I don't ridicule anyone who's opinion differs with mine. I'd like to see the same, in return. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, another to ridicule the person holding them. I would never do that, to a friend.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I am stepping out of this, I am having to bite my tongue, because what I really am itching to say would probably get me suspended.


Darlin, you and me both. A shame some others don't know when to close the pie hole.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sure glad I didn't read any of this last night. I never would have gotten to sleep. As it was, I didn't get to sleep til nearly 1 am. I was teaching myself to make diaper covers, the much more modern version of plastic pants.
> 
> Here's how I feel, SQM is right. You guys aren't just attacking my opinions, you're attacking me, personally. Yesterday's, brouhaha began when I suggested that if the reps were the only corrupt ones, the dems should have done something about it. The response was that the dems were only in control for two months. I said that it didn't matter how long they were in control, it should have been a priority. Then, I got accused of denying that the dems only had control for two months, which I didn't. When I tried to steer the conversation back to WHY the dems did nothing, I was attacked for denying the two month thing.
> 
> ...


This is opinion. And it comes from someone who has lived in three states during my adult life where political hanky panky had been the norm. Somehow, in my view, when people get into a position of political power they get a feeling of entitlement, of being bullet proof. They also see where they can get financial gain and gradually lose what integrity they have had except in rare instances. There are very few "Mr. Smiths" in Washington. I don't trust any of them and have absolutely no way to effect change except by voting my conscience in every election, from the local school board to President of the US. It is hard to get accurate information about candidates except on the local level, so in many ways voting is a crap shoot and we just have to hope we are voting the way we think we are.

I think we are all on the same page in that we want what is best for the general populace of our country. We want people to have the education and opportunities to live comfortable lives with the least interference from governmental entities. We want the weak and helpless among us to receive services that help them live dignified safe lives and are willing to help subsidize such services. But we also want some show or responsibility in not deliberately pushing themselves into dependency to take when they have the capacity to live independently. And we want people in a position to provide work for people to do so and not just go the greed route and to H--- with the rest of the world.

I hope your DIL is comfortable and the babies she is carrying are doing well. I think of you often and try to say a little prayer for their well being.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sure glad I didn't read any of this last night. I never would have gotten to sleep. As it was, I didn't get to sleep til nearly 1 am. I was teaching myself to make diaper covers, the much more modern version of plastic pants.
> 
> Here's how I feel, SQM is right. You guys aren't just attacking my opinions, you're attacking me, personally. Yesterday's, brouhaha began when I suggested that if the reps were the only corrupt ones, the dems should have done something about it. The response was that the dems were only in control for two months. I said that it didn't matter how long they were in control, it should have been a priority. Then, I got accused of denying that the dems only had control for two months, which I didn't. When I tried to steer the conversation back to WHY the dems did nothing, I was attacked for denying the two month thing.
> 
> ...


"Their first priority would have been to clean house or get rid of the corruption." How? By throwing republicans out of congress physically? I'm not sure that would have been legal or constitutional.

I would also be interested to know how you envision this ideal would have been possible, even if there were no other urgent problems at the time. Exactly how would they go about "cleaning house?"

When Obama took office our economy was in free-fall. Unemployment was a monstrous problem, our banking system was at the point of collapse and auto manufacturing on the brink of disappearing. And yet, on his FIRST DAY IN OFFICE he issued an executive order restricting lobbyists, the text of which you can find here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Ethics-Commitments-By-Executive-Branch-Personnel/

Yes, democrats take corporate money. I don't think anyone has suggested, even remotely, that they don't. What I do hear is a consensus that corruption is a serious problem and needs to be addressed. I have some ideas about how to do that - everyone knows what they are. On a different level, however, I ask that you consider the philosophy of the democrats as opposed to the repubs. Democrats are interested in promoting the common good, while republicans are interested in promoting business above people, of destroying separation of church and state, of imposing regressive policies on women and war over peace.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sure glad I didn't read any of this last night. I never would have gotten to sleep. As it was, I didn't get to sleep til nearly 1 am. I was teaching myself to make diaper covers, the much more modern version of plastic pants.
> 
> Here's how I feel, SQM is right. You guys aren't just attacking my opinions, you're attacking me, personally. Yesterday's, brouhaha began when I suggested that if the reps were the only corrupt ones, the dems should have done something about it. The response was that the dems were only in control for two months. I said that it didn't matter how long they were in control, it should have been a priority. Then, I got accused of denying that the dems only had control for two months, which I didn't. When I tried to steer the conversation back to WHY the dems did nothing, I was attacked for denying the two month thing.
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> "Their first priority would have been to clean house or get rid of the corruption." How? By throwing republicans out of congress physically? I'm not sure that would have been legal or constitutional.
> 
> I would also be interested to know how you envision this ideal would have been possible, even if there were no other urgent problems at the time. Exactly how would they go about "cleaning house?"
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> You guys are being so incredibly harsh. You cannot tolerate one word of dissent. If someone is not in lock step with you, you go ballistic. Nebs is a very strong and good natured person to put up with your mean little minds. If her facts don't agree with yours tough nuggies. I respect her more than I do some of you who have that pointer finger at the ready when she is brave enough to express herself. However, Nebs does not need me to defend her as she is quite able.


I have been on the receiving end of you being incredibly harsh also. So we have mean little minds, do we. Speak for yourself. The respect things goes both ways. You better put your pointer finger down.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> If you words were directed to me, they would hurt.


As your words just did, so I had to respond, like it or not.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

There will be no more updates on Grace. I have been taken off the family notification list for having strong objections to the scam.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> There will be no more updates on Grace. I have been taken off the family notification list for having strong objections to the scam.


I'm so sorry to hear that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'm so sorry to hear that.


Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


A case of shooting the messenger?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


I am so sorry. I did not expect that from your sister. Sounds like she is listening to those around her, instead of listening to the truth.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


So we must assume that the whole family is condoning this scam nonsense.

So sorry you had to be involved in it. I hope your sister does not persist in this "never speak to me" stuff.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm very sorry, jbandsma. That just sucks.


jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> So we must assume that the whole family is condoning this scam nonsense.
> 
> So sorry you had to be involved in it. I hope your sister does not persist in this "never speak to me" stuff.


After this, it really doesn't matter. I've been an outsider in the family since I was born. Now it just means I don't have to bother trying any more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> There will be no more updates on Grace. I have been taken off the family notification list for having strong objections to the scam.


This is both sad and mean. Do they really all think that what dil's mom is doing is appropriate? It shows no respect for the poor baby, that they want to use her as a shill.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


You don't have to accept this. She needs someone to talk to, and I'm guessing you're the only one with a mind to listen.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You don't have to accept this. She needs someone to talk to, and I'm guessing you're the only one with a mind to listen.


Yes I do have to accept it. I don't go where I'm not wanted.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Yes I do have to accept it. I don't go where I'm not wanted.


Please keep the door open - just in case sister changes her mind when the dust settles and this intensely emotional time passes. People sometimes say and do things when in emotional turmoil that they regret. Seems like this situation fits the description of turmoil very well.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gasp!

I am so sorry to hear about your latest family mishegoss. We are all here for you.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Please keep the door open - just in case sister changes her mind when the dust settles and this intensely emotional time passes. People sometimes say and do things when in emotional turmoil that they regret. Seems like this situation fits the description of turmoil very well.


I don't think so this time. There were a lot of years we didn't communicate at all because I used to go visit with my grandparents around christmas every couple of years. The last time we went through something like this was the year her first child was born...and died. I was blamed for being a jinx and told that if I came back up it would be better for me to stay away from her. So she's probably reverting to that and blaming me for what's happened to Grace. Irrational? Of course. Typical? Absolutely.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I don't think so this time. There were a lot of years we didn't communicate at all because I used to go visit with my grandparents around christmas every couple of years. The last time we went through something like this was the year her first child was born...and died. I was blamed for being a jinx and told that if I came back up it would be better for me to stay away from her. So she's probably reverting to that and blaming me for what's happened to Grace. Irrational? Of course. Typical? Absolutely.


So sorry to hear this.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I don't think so this time. There were a lot of years we didn't communicate at all because I used to go visit with my grandparents around christmas every couple of years. The last time we went through something like this was the year her first child was born...and died. I was blamed for being a jinx and told that if I came back up it would be better for me to stay away from her. So she's probably reverting to that and blaming me for what's happened to Grace. Irrational? Of course. Typical? Absolutely.


Oooh. Then go with your gut. It pays to eliminate caustic people from our lives. If that is typical behavior, I'm surprised you have not done so already - but that speaks to your forgiving nature.

We think you're terrific. And so glad the Ostrich didn't bounce you off KP.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Oooh. Then go with your gut. It pays to eliminate caustic people from our lives. If that is typical behavior, I'm surprised you have not done so already - but that speaks to your forgiving nature.
> 
> We think you're terrific. And so glad the Ostrich didn't bounce you off KP.


He would if I said what I'd really like to. Can he bounce me for telepathicly sending you all those words? I wouldn't be surprised if he tries.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> I don't think so this time. There were a lot of years we didn't communicate at all because I used to go visit with my grandparents around christmas every couple of years. The last time we went through something like this was the year her first child was born...and died. I was blamed for being a jinx and told that if I came back up it would be better for me to stay away from her. So she's probably reverting to that and blaming me for what's happened to Grace. Irrational? Of course. Typical? Absolutely.


Good grief, your sister has an insane way to look at things. Your nephews MIL must have a strong hold on what goes on in other people's lives.

Just remember, you have friends here and you are not a jinx.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Good grief, your sister has an insane way to look at things. Your nephews MIL must have a strong hold on what goes on in other people's live.
> 
> Just remember, you have friends here and you are not a jinx.


You have no idea. The whole family is like this. According to them it is MY fault for being born.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> You have no idea. The whole family is like this. According to them it is MY fault for being born.


Well, we know you are better than that, in fact, you are the best IMO.

Take care of yourself.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Aaron Schock, republican from Illinois will resign at the end of the month. He is the one who paid back $40,000 of taxpayer money because he decorated his office to look like Downton Abby. He has also been accused of taking lavish trips on the taxpayers dime. You know he is a member of that conservative party, the one that wants to cut spending, cut food stamps, as those kids don't need to eat so much and cut social security and medicare. Those old people are just living too long. They are such hypocrites.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> To SQM ---I have been on the receiving end of you being incredibly harsh also. So we have mean little minds, do we. Speak for yourself. The respect things goes both ways. You better put your pointer finger down.


I agree.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> You have no idea. The whole family is like this. According to them it is MY fault for being born.


You can't allow them to put all that crap on your shoulders. Sounds like it is time to walk away, and it is their loss. You will be fine without them as you have been before. You have friends here, always.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> You can't allow them to put all that crap on your shoulders. Sounds like it is time to walk away, and it is their loss. You will be fine without them as you have been before. You have friends here, always.


Oh, it hit me one day that I had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. I didn't have any choice in whether or not I was born, I was 4 when I was dumped with my grandparents and that definitely wasn't my choice...and how dare they do that to me.

Too bad it took me until I was 35 to realize it. The rest of them never have and I have gotten too old to even try any more. Where's a good carnival when you need one.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well, we know you are better than that, in fact, you are the best IMO.
> 
> Take care of yourself.


 :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well, we know you are better than that, in fact, you are the best IMO.
> 
> Take care of yourself.


 :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Yes I do have to accept it. I don't go where I'm not wanted.


Do you really think you're not wanted by your sister? Isn't she the weak one who never ran away from home? Now she is being besieged on all sides by the ones who boss her around and have probably threatened to cut her out the way they did to you. Just don't shut down completely. You're better than that.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> Aaron Schock, republican from Illinois will resign at the end of the month. He is the one who paid back $40,000 of taxpayer money because he decorated his office to look like Downton Abby. He has also been accused of taking lavish trips on the taxpayers dime. You know he is a member of that conservative party, the one that wants to cut spending, cut food stamps, as those kids don't need to eat so much and cut social security and medicare. Those old people are just living too long. They are such hypocrites.


Now, that's good news!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Oh, it hit me one day that I had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. I didn't have any choice in whether or not I was born, I was 4 when I was dumped with my grandparents and that definitely wasn't my choice...and how dare they do that to me.
> 
> Too bad it took me until I was 35 to realize it. The rest of them never have and I have gotten too old to even try any more. Where's a good carnival when you need one.


Go on over to D&P - it's a regular three-ring circus.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> I don't think so this time. There were a lot of years we didn't communicate at all because I used to go visit with my grandparents around christmas every couple of years. The last time we went through something like this was the year her first child was born...and died. I was blamed for being a jinx and told that if I came back up it would be better for me to stay away from her. So she's probably reverting to that and blaming me for what's happened to Grace. Irrational? Of course. Typical? Absolutely.


Oops. I guess you know her pretty well. It's still sad, though.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Go on over to D&P - it's a regular three-ring circus.


Carnivals (and circuses) are not staffed by the bat guano crazies. The people I worked with out in the road would have shredded that bunch to confetti long before now.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Carnivals (and circuses) are not staffed by the bat guano crazies. The people I worked with out in the road would have shredded that bunch to confetti long before now.


Let's send them on over and let the shredding begin!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Now, that's good news!


His Communications Director Benjamin Cole, is the one who referred to African-Americans as zoo animals and suggested President Obama install a mosque at the White House. Schock sold his home, purchased in 03 at $128,250 to the Vice President at Caterpillar, a campaign donor, for $925,000, It was valued at $695,000 that month. Then he goes on Fox to defend Caterpillar for taking money overseas in a Swiss account and blames the president for Caterpillars layoffs. He definitely has been bought. It was reported he spent $79,061 on decorating his office and about $5,000 on a presidential lectern. I think we are lucky he got stopped, but we need to keep our eyes on him. I am sure he will get some therapy for his spending, and lavish lifestyle and he will be back, a new man.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> His Communications Director Benjamin Cole, is the one who referred to African-Americans as zoo animals and suggested President Obama install a mosque at the White House. Schock sold his home, purchased in 03 at $128,250 to the Vice President at Caterpillar, a campaign donor, for $925,000, It was valued at $695,000 that month. Then he goes on Fox to defend Caterpillar for taking money overseas in a Swiss account and blames the president for Caterpillars layoffs. He definitely has been bought. It was reported he spent $79,061 on decorating his office and about $5,000 on a presidential lectern. I think we are lucky he got stopped, but we need to keep our eyes on him. I am sure he will get some therapy for his spending, and lavish lifestyle and he will be back, a new man.


The therapy he will get will probably be on how not to get caught the next time with a minor in the importance of putting everything in your wife's name.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The therapy he will get will probably be on how not to get caught the next time with a minor in the importance of putting everything in your wife's name.


I don't think he is married and even though on the record, he is anti gay, it has been reported that he is gay. Just another hypocritical republican trying to stay in the closet. Don't know why they always try to stay in the closet as they always get caught in the end.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> I don't think he is married and even though on the record, he is anti gay, it has been reported that he is gay. Just another hypocritical republican trying to stay in the closet. Don't know why they always try to stay in the closet as they always get caught in the end.


You don't have to have one to be drilled on the importance of putting everything in your wife's name if you are a politician. And especially if you are gay...get a wife for show and tell.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> His Communications Director Benjamin Cole, is the one who referred to African-Americans as zoo animals and suggested President Obama install a mosque at the White House. Schock sold his home, purchased in 03 at $128,250 to the Vice President at Caterpillar, a campaign donor, for $925,000, It was valued at $695,000 that month. Then he goes on Fox to defend Caterpillar for taking money overseas in a Swiss account and blames the president for Caterpillars layoffs. He definitely has been bought. It was reported he spent $79,061 on decorating his office and about $5,000 on a presidential lectern. I think we are lucky he got stopped, but we need to keep our eyes on him. I am sure he will get some therapy for his spending, and lavish lifestyle and he will be back, a new man.


Maybe he'll find god and all will be forgiven.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> I don't think he is married and even though on the record, he is anti gay, it has been reported that he is gay. Just another hypocritical republican trying to stay in the closet. Don't know why they always try to stay in the closet as they always get caught in the end.


Getting caught in who's end? Bound to happen.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> There will be no more updates on Grace. I have been taken off the family notification list for having strong objections to the scam.


Well, you are appreciated here for being caring and concerned. You have brought some prayers from believers in the power of prayer into play for Grace's welfare.

It is unfortunate that the children are in a family where greed and short sightedness are factors.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> After this, it really doesn't matter. I've been an outsider in the family since I was born. Now it just means I don't have to bother trying any more.


Sounds as if you are better off not to be an insider with a bunch of dishonest people like that. You can hold your head high and not look over your shoulder waiting to be caught as part of a scam.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> You have no idea. The whole family is like this. According to them it is MY fault for being born.


How did you survive that toxic environment as intact as you are? Sounds as if you are a changeling and well away from them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> This is opinion. And it comes from someone who has lived in three states during my adult life where political hanky panky had been the norm. Somehow, in my view, when people get into a position of political power they get a feeling of entitlement, of being bullet proof. They also see where they can get financial gain and gradually lose what integrity they have had except in rare instances. There are very few "Mr. Smiths" in Washington. I don't trust any of them and have absolutely no way to effect change except by voting my conscience in every election, from the local school board to President of the US. It is hard to get accurate information about candidates except on the local level, so in many ways voting is a crap shoot and we just have to hope we are voting the way we think we are.
> 
> I think we are all on the same page in that we want what is best for the general populace of our country. We want people to have the education and opportunities to live comfortable lives with the least interference from governmental entities. We want the weak and helpless among us to receive services that help them live dignified safe lives and are willing to help subsidize such services. But we also want some show or responsibility in not deliberately pushing themselves into dependency to take when they have the capacity to live independently. And we want people in a position to provide work for people to do so and not just go the greed route and to H--- with the rest of the world.
> 
> I hope your DIL is comfortable and the babies she is carrying are doing well. I think of you often and try to say a little prayer for their well being.


Thank you so much, Marilyn!
Dil is anything BUT comfortable, but she's doing much better than expected. They expected her to be on bed rest at 20 weeks (maybe even in the hospital), she's 22 weeks 5 days and is doing so well, the doctor said she can keep doing what she's doing, for now. The babies are all good and are over a pound now. Perfectly formed. Now, they just need to grow. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> "Their first priority would have been to clean house or get rid of the corruption." How? By throwing republicans out of congress physically? I'm not sure that would have been legal or constitutional.
> 
> I would also be interested to know how you envision this ideal would have been possible, even if there were no other urgent problems at the time. Exactly how would they go about "cleaning house?"
> 
> ...


I'd start with individual prosecution, pick one, any one. It would send a message. And then I'd change the rules for accepting and using funds. I like your ideas except for the Con Con. I think that would be used to take rights away from us. Its simplistic, but somebody has to start somewhere.

The democrat's view of the two parties is completely different than the republican's view. I think that neither view is accurate. I think they're all out to get whatever they can. And they each lie to their supporters, for their continued support.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> There will be no more updates on Grace. I have been taken off the family notification list for having strong objections to the scam.


Oh, I'm so sorry. It sounds like they're willing to let that woman cheat and steal, to just not make waves. Everyone has to be nice and pretend like everything is fine. I believe in speaking out. I hope Grace continues to improve.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Yeah...from my sister "please do not speak to me again"


Wow! That's harsh!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Wow! That's harsh!


Actually, that was quite nice compared to previous times.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:



> How did you survive that toxic environment as intact as you are? Sounds as if you are a changeling and well away from them.


Judy -- I understand so well. You have lived with this your whole life -- It colors everything. I had much the same and it took years and luckily I got out of it and separated from my family . We have to accept that we are a bit damaged through no fault of our own. I think the bitterness is the hardest thing deal with. You have us and I am adopting you as a sister. so you have family.

Your sister from what you have told us has had a lot of hurt too. We each react differently- you stood up for yourself as did I, while she has allowed people to put her down and steal her confidence. We are better off than they are. They carry scars and don't realize it -- we know we have scars and deal with them.

We are happy to be your adult sisters and we cover
your back in our thoughts. You are very strong. Grace still has all of us loving her and pulling for her and that can't hurt.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

NJG said:


> His Communications Director Benjamin Cole, is the one who referred to African-Americans as zoo animals and suggested President Obama install a mosque at the White House. Schock sold his home, purchased in 03 at $128,250 to the Vice President at Caterpillar, a campaign donor, for $925,000, It was valued at $695,000 that month. Then he goes on Fox to defend Caterpillar for taking money overseas in a Swiss account and blames the president for Caterpillars layoffs. He definitely has been bought. It was reported he spent $79,061 on decorating his office and about $5,000 on a presidential lectern. I think we are lucky he got stopped, but we need to keep our eyes on him. I am sure he will get some therapy for his spending, and lavish lifestyle and he will be back, a new man.


What a sleazeball! I think he should be able to spend as much on his office as he wants, as long as it's HIS money and not ours! He'd be a good one to set an example with. Prosecute him!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd start with individual prosecution, pick one, any one. It would send a message. And then I'd change the rules for accepting and using funds. I like your ideas except for the Con Con. I think that would be used to take rights away from us. Its simplistic, but somebody has to start somewhere.
> 
> The democrat's view of the two parties is completely different than the republican's view. I think that neither view is accurate. I think they're all out to get whatever they can. And they each lie to their supporters, for their continued support.


The thing about the constitutional convention is that there is little chance of a runaway convention - remember, any proposed amendment would have to be passed by 38 states. Major changes to the constitution or amendments outside the scope of the convention would not pass.

There is NO OTHER WAY to overturn Citizens United unless the SCOTUS does so itself - not going to happen any time soon. The unrestricted availability of corrupting money is the first order of business if we are to return to government that reflects the will of the people. I have often commented that both parties take money. They do. It's out of control and no wonder we, as constituents, are ignored and patronized.

ALEC has several proposed amendments. One is calling for a constitutional convention to make huge changes to our constitution - and to make matters worse, there is an ALEC model bill on the floor right here in Arizona that says Arizona agrees to BE BOUND by a compact to make those changes - no matter how long it takes to get the states to pass the amendments and that any delegate who does not vote as the legislature wants them to vote will be subject to immediate recall. Bodies to go vote as they're told, essentially. The bill makes participation with the ALEC agenda irrevocable and even specifically says the "compact" of states is authorized to override or repeal individual state laws. So much for the state soverignty the republicans keep talking about. Who would be in charge of the compact that superceded state powers? A hired administrator. NOT an elected person.

Those jokers mean business and we SHOULD fear them. They have 18 states on board with their proposed changes to the constitution. We need to get there first - if we still can. Above all, we need to be aware of what they're doing. I watch the legislative web site every day and even listen in on the videos of hearings on critical bills. Then I go throw up. Arizona has a larger proportion of ALEC members than any other state in the US. Slaves to corporations. Every member of ALEC is a republican.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> Actually, that was quite nice compared to previous times.


At some point, we have to examine our relationships and make the decisions as to which are to our benefit and which are not. There is no reason to accept abuse from those who are supposed to love us. Sometimes it's worth letting go, so you can heal. JMO


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> At some point, we have to examine our relationships and make the decisions as to which are to our benefit and which are not. There is no reason to accept abuse from those who are supposed to love us. Sometimes it's worth letting go, so you can heal. JMO


exactly right. Some relationships are poisonous and hurtful. Try to solve problems but if they can't be solved accept it and go forward. Judy -- obviously you have done that.

Well, ladies, I have had a big day, walked half a mile for the first time on the outside track here with Pat. Bought groceries, made soup, baked and did some watercolor. Now I am watching the world women's curling and am going to turn off my computer. I can't believe how good I feel. Better than in over a year - closer to two. Just a change in meds, the care and attention of my new doctor and I am doing so much better.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The thing about the constitutional convention is that there is little chance of a runaway convention - remember, any proposed amendment would have to be passed by 38 states. Major changes to the constitution or amendments outside the scope of the convention would not pass.
> 
> There is NO OTHER WAY to overturn Citizens United unless the SCOTUS does so itself - not going to happen any time soon. The unrestricted availability of corrupting money is the first order of business if we are to return to government that reflects the will of the people. I have often commented that both parties take money. They do. It's out of control and no wonder we, as constituents, are ignored and patronized.
> 
> ...


IMO, a runaway convention would be a sure bet. If a Constitutional Convention gets called, there are no limits on what they could do. They could rewrite our entire Constitution. They could take away any, or all of our rights. I know that you trust them to only vote on the issue at hand, but I don't trust them at all. You say, "We need to get there first". Keep this in mind; they've already got 18 states. You can be sure that all of Alec's issues will be brought before the convention. All you'd be doing, is helping them get a convention. The Constitution does not put any limits on the delegates of a convention. These guys are lawyers, they know that. How do you know that Wolf PAC isn't Alec's underhanded way to get a convention? What better way to force change, than for both parties to be calling for a con con? It's just too dangerous.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> exactly right. Some relationships are poisonous and hurtful. Try to solve problems but if they can't be solved accept it and go forward. Judy -- obviously you have done that.
> 
> Well, ladies, I have had a big day, walked half a mile for the first time on the outside track here with Pat. Bought groceries, made soup, baked and did some watercolor. Now I am watching the world women's curling and am going to turn off my computer. I can't believe how good I feel. Better than in over a year - closer to two. Just a change in meds, the care and attention of my new doctor and I am doing so much better.


Shirley, I'm so glad that you're feeling better. Keep getting stronger.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hello ladies!
A Happy St Patrick's Day to you all!! We had the usual corned beef and cabbage dinner tonight.

I see BiBi is counting his chickens before they have been hatched. From what I have been seeing, the race is still too close to call. His arrogance is offensive. It could be weeks before they and we know who won. I am hoping for a Herzog win, but won't hold my breath.

I see that another Republican rat, Schock, has been exposed for unethical spending, etc.. (stealing from his constituents). Shock! Shock! Horror! He will resign as of March 32. I hope his arse is in jail before then!The Repug ship is sinking. How many more rats will jump before it goes under?

I have been listening to some of the 47 treasonous rats' excuses for the letter to Iran. John McCain's was the best. "We were in a hurry to get out of town because of a storm"..... The dog ate my homework....Do they really believe that we think that the letter was written, signed and mailed within a day? 
Did anyone see the clip of Ted Cruz scaring the beejeez out of a 3 year old by telling her that the whole world is on fire? Why didn't he just tell her that it really isn't instead of expecting a 3 year old to understand his political BS? The show only gets better!
Loretta Lynch still has not been confirmed as AG by Congress. Why the hold up? Mitch McConnell says that Congress has too many other things to work on. Really? They want to tie abortion to her appointment. Does he really believe that we think he is going to work at all? Could it be that she is another African American? Could it be that she is a woman? Or could it be both? Or could it be that after 2 months the Replubicans have proved *that they can't govern?* My guess is all of the above.
They hate Holder, but Republicans have been known to act and vote against their own best interests. 
BTW, the latest polls show that "The Email Scandal"( It's always a scandal with them.) has not changed the opinion of favorable opinions of Hillary Clinton. Still 53% favorable versus 44% not. I think it's time Congress gets off the blame boat and should start figuring out what to do with their time and our money as long as they have both houses. The scandal game is very old news. So is the obstruction game. 
It may have been a victory for Repugs in Nov, but it is clearly a loss for the American people in general.
That's all for now. Tune in tomorrow for some more juicy Capitol news.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Shirley, I'm so glad that you're feeling better. Keep getting stronger.


Thanks, I can't believe what I did today and never even had a nap!!! yeah.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What a sleazeball! I think he should be able to spend as much on his office as he wants, as long as it's HIS money and not ours! He'd be a good one to set an example with. Prosecute him!


It makes me wonder why he resigned. He had repaid some money, but I am wondering if there is more information to come out yet. The ethics committee was going to investigate and now since he resigned, they won't do anything. Now if there is corruption of any kind that the law can investigate, they will continue. He evidently was the type of guy who was very infatuated with celebrities and greatly influenced by money, so good that he is gone. The designer that did the work on his office evidently donated her services, which was a gift. I don't think he quite comprehended how that all works. He accepted trips and plane rides from donors. I don't think he was as smart as he thought he was.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> It makes me wonder why he resigned. He had repaid some money, but I am wondering if there is more information to come out yet. The ethics committee was going to investigate and now since he resigned, they won't do anything. Now if there is corruption of any kind that the law can investigate, they will continue. He evidently was the type of guy who was very infatuated with celebrities and greatly influenced by money, so good that he is gone. The designer that did the work on his office evidently donated her services, which was a gift. I don't think he quite comprehended how that all works. He accepted trips and plane rides from donors. I don't think he was as smart as he thought he was.


His constituents are not at all happy with him. I think more bones will spill from the closet.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Watched Rachel tonight and she called Senator Inhoff Senator Snowball. How stupid does one have to be to say because we have snow it is cold and therefor there is no global warning--it is cold. He is leading the committee on the environment, so our environment is in trouble. This will be the first update on chemical regulations in 39 years. They are talking about Chemical Safety for the 21st century act, and will be trying to get rid of a lot of regulations, so I hope the president has his veto pen ready. The problem is this bill was written by The American Chemistry Council which is the lobbyist for the chemical industry. Are they going to want to protect the environment from chemicals or are they going to want to protect the chemical industry from regulations?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Watched Rachel tonight and she called Senator Inhoff Senator Snowball. How stupid does one have to be to say because we have snow it is cold and therefor there is no global warning--it is cold. He is leading the committee on the environment, so our environment is in trouble. This will be the first update on chemical regulations in 39 years. They are talking about Chemical Safety for the 21st century act, and will be trying to get rid of a lot of regulations, so I hope the president has his veto pen ready. The problem is this bill was written by The American Chemistry Council which is the lobbyist for the chemical industry. Are they going to want to protect the environment from chemicals or are they going to want to protect the chemical industry from regulations?


How stupid can people be? Inhoff has almost trumped them all. My guess is which ever one lines their pockets. We both know what the answer is to that one. I hope it turns out that I am wrong. I don't want to see my GD wearing a gas mask to her prom.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The republicans have added something about abortion to the human trafficking bill, and then insist they don't have time to vote on Loretta Lynch. All this talk about how now that they are in charge they would get things done. The only way they can govern is by blackmail. They hate Eric Holder, but instead of voting on LL and getting rid of him, they won't vote on Lynch unless their blackmail works. It won't. Obama has gotten a lot smarter about how they operate. It was supposed to happen this week, but McConnell lied again. 

We have now gotten rid of Grimm and Schock. How many more to go?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> The republicans have added something about abortion to the human trafficking bill, and then insist they don't have time to vote on the new Loretta Lynch. All this talk about how now that they are in charge they would get things done. The only way they can govern is by blackmail. They hate Eric Holder, but instead of voting on LL and getting rid of him, they won't vote on Lynch unless their blackmail works. It won't. Obama has gotten a lot smarter about how they operate. It was supposed to happen this week, but McConnell lied again.
> 
> We have now gotten rid of Grimm and Schock. How many more to go?


Hopefully we will see the 47 traitors kicked out and that will just about eradicate them in the Senate. I hear the petitions are still filing in.
:-D


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How stupid can people be? Inhoff has almost trumped them all. My guess is which ever one lines their pockets. We both know what the answer is to that one. I hope it turns out that I am wrong. I don't want to see my GD wearing a gas mask to her prom.


Good point about the gas mask. I think I will write that in my next email to Charlie.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Good point about the gas mask. I think I will write that in my next email to Charlie.


 It's bad enough that we had to endure heavy air and water pollution while growing up, but they don't stop there. There are chemicals in our food that should not be allowed. I really think that they are pulling our country backwards in time. They should know better from past mistakes, but corruption and greed are the mottos of most Repugs in office.
Speaking of climate change, did you have an unseasonably warm weekend like we did? 72 here on Sunday. Today it is in the 40's but still warmer with no snow on the ground than our usual March weather.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's bad enough that we had to endure heavy air and water pollution while growing up, but they don't stop there. There are chemicals in our food that should not be allowed. I really think that they are pulling our country backwards in time. They should know better from past mistakes, but corruption and greed are the mottos of most Repugs in office.
> Speaking of climate change, did you have an unseasonably warm weekend like we did? 72 here on Sunday. Today it is in the 40's but still warmer with no snow on the ground than our usual March weather.


Yes it was nice this weekend and I think it was 81 yesterday, but cooler today. The republicans think allowing big business to prosper is the most important thing. They already dump things in our rivers and streams, by just ignoring regulations. If those regulations are taken away, look out.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes it was nice this weekend and I think it was 81 yesterday, but cooler today. The republicans think allowing big business to prosper is the most important thing. They already dump things in our rivers and streams, by just ignoring regulations. If those regulations are taken away, look out.


I wonder how many fines have been issued to the Koch brothers in the past few years. They have a refinery down by Hastings, Mn and the air is putrid coming from that plant. Sad thing is that land is surrounded by farms who grow mostly soy beans and raise dairy cows. I have to think what goes up must come down and I also have to think that the water around that plant is toxic. The farmers were there long before the Koch refinery and some had to abandon their farms.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Looks like Santorum is gearing up to run for president again. He wants to put bibles back in schools. He isn't going very far. Last election he wanted to get rig of birth control pills. He gets these crazy ideas and then wants women to vote for him.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Looks like Santorum is gearing up to run for president again. He wants to put bibles back in schools. He isn't going very far. Last election he wanted to get rig of birth control pills. He gets these crazy ideas and then wants women to vote for him.


I think he is a certified Macadamia! He is the last person anyone should vote for aside from Walker, Huckabee, Cruz, ....... and the Paul's, Rand and Ron. I almost forgot that little cockroach Rubio.
Bible's have no place in the public school system. I don't have to tell you that , lol. Where do they get these ideas that this country is , ever was, or should be a theocratic country? I can appreciate someone being strong in their faith, but by no means should their faith be pushed on the rest of the people.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I wonder how many fines have been issued to the Koch brothers in the past few years. They have a refinery down by Hastings, Mn and the air is putrid coming from that plant. Sad thing is that land is surrounded by farms who grow mostly soy beans and raise dairy cows. I have to think what goes up must come down and I also have to think that the water around that plant is toxic. The farmers were there long before the Koch refinery and some had to abandon their farms.


The new chemical bill they are discussing would prohibit states from enforcing their state regulations to contradict what the federal bill says. So a state that has stiff regulations would not be able to enforce them.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think he is a certified Macadamia! He is the last person anyone should vote for aside from Walker, Huckabee, Cruz, ....... and the Paul's, Rand and Ron. I almost forgot that little cockroach Rubio.
> Bible's have no place in the public school system. I don't have to tell you that , lol. Where do they get these ideas that this country is , ever was, or should be a theocratic country? I can appreciate someone being strong in their faith, but by no means should their faith be pushed on the rest of the people.


Makes perfect sense to me, and personally I don't think any of them stand a chance. I heard today that Rand is getting ready to announce.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

discussing would prohibit states from enforcing their state regulations to contradict what the federal bill says. So a state that has stiff regulations would not be able to enforce them.[/quote]

Outside of dollar signs, do these people have any long term vision at all? 
We have worked so hard to clean things up and hold these corporations responsible for their corrupt practices and lack of care for the environment.
I wonder how any of them can look their grand kids in the face.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Makes perfect sense to me, and personally I don't think any of them stand a chance. I heard today that Rand is getting ready to announce.


That will be another night of great comedic entertainment watching their debate. Did I hear correctly that Rick Perry is throwing his hat in the ring?
I saw a few clips of Jeb Bush in New Hampshire being asked if he thought Walker was the front runner. His reply "um, I don't know". It's not what he said, but how he said it. I thought he was supposed to be the smart one. Out of all of them I think he is closer to the center than any of them.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> Watched Rachel tonight and she called Senator Inhoff Senator Snowball. How stupid does one have to be to say because we have snow it is cold and therefor there is no global warning--it is cold. He is leading the committee on the environment, so our environment is in trouble. This will be the first update on chemical regulations in 39 years. They are talking about Chemical Safety for the 21st century act, and will be trying to get rid of a lot of regulations, so I hope the president has his veto pen ready. The problem is this bill was written by The American Chemistry Council which is the lobbyist for the chemical industry. Are they going to want to protect the environment from chemicals or are they going to want to protect the chemical industry from regulations?


Saw the same report and realized just how plain dumb these politicians are. The lobbyists forgot to remove their name from the bill???? The curtain was opened on that one and we really saw the govt. in action. Feels hopeless. In what profession do the smart ones enter? Certainly not the government.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Saw the same report and realized just how plain dumb these politicians are. The lobbyists forgot to remove their name from the bill???? The curtain was opened on that one and we really saw the govt. in action. Feels hopeless. In what profession do the smart ones enter? Certainly not the government.


Oh, there are smart one's SQ. It depends on what kind of smart you are looking for. Smart and greedy? Smart and Ruthless? Smart and human?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That will be another night of great comedic entertainment watching their debate. Did I hear correctly that Rick Perry is throwing his hat in the ring?
> I saw a few clips of Jeb Bush in New Hampshire being asked if he thought Walker was the front runner. His reply "um, I don't know". It's not what he said, but how he said it. I thought he was supposed to be the smart one. Out of all of them I think he is closer to the center than any of them.


It doesn't seem to matter anymore if they are closer to the center. The tea party and the old white republicans have them all by the balls and they jump when told to.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> It doesn't seem to matter anymore if they are closer to the center. The tea party and the old white republicans have them all by the balls and they jump when told to.


Did you see Boehner's little speechlet saying that Congress should have possession of the Clinton's server so they can decide what is personal or not? What are they expecting to find? Something to cover their embarrassment from the Benghazi ordeal?
I have to laugh. He and his party of scandal mongers couldn't find their own butts with a search warrant. I swear, NJG, they are looking more and more like the Keystone Cops.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you see Boehner's little speechlet saying that Congress should have possession of the Clinton's server so they can decide what is personal or not? What are they expecting to find? Something to cover their embarrassment from the Benghazi ordeal?
> I have to laugh. He and his party of scandal mongers couldn't find their own butts with a search warrant. I swear,nj G, they are looking more and more like the Keystone Cops.


Yes I think more Benghazi info is what they are looking for or anything they can use to derail her as president.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes I think more Benghazi info is what they are looking for or anything they can use to derail her as president.


I agree with you strongly on that. They have been trying to target her for anything and everything since 2012.
I think the people are tired of all of this BS and want to see the country move on. This incompetent Repug Congress is making the US look very bad.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think he is a certified Macadamia! He is the last person anyone should vote for aside from Walker, Huckabee, Cruz, ....... and the Paul's, Rand and Ron. I almost forgot that little cockroach Rubio.
> Bible's have no place in the public school system. I don't have to tell you that , lol. Where do they get these ideas that this country is , ever was, or should be a theocratic country? I can appreciate someone being strong in their faith, but by no means should their faith be pushed on the rest of the people.


Getting pushed it is, too, when you have a member of the Supremes saying that the freedom of religion clause in the constitution was actually meant to only apply to christians.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

NJG said:


> It makes me wonder why he resigned. He had repaid some money, but I am wondering if there is more information to come out yet. The ethics committee was going to investigate and now since he resigned, they won't do anything. Now if there is corruption of any kind that the law can investigate, they will continue. He evidently was the type of guy who was very infatuated with celebrities and greatly influenced by money, so good that he is gone. The designer that did the work on his office evidently donated her services, which was a gift. I don't think he quite comprehended how that all works. He accepted trips and plane rides from donors. I don't think he was as smart as he thought he was.


Now that he has resigned, he is no longer protected by his status as a representative and doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the Ethics Committee. He's open to criminal prosecution. My guess is, he will face charges. Can't happen soon enough.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Another tidbit about the infamous Rep. Cotton from Daily Kos:

Cotton has attempted other end-runs around the U.S. Constitution. As a Congressman from Arkansas (he served but one term), during a hearing before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Cotton offered an amendment to the Nuclear Iran Prevention Act of 2013, "automatically" sentencing family members of people who violate U.S. sanctions against Iran up to 20 years in prison. Moreover, he would punish any family member, including "a spouse and any relative to the third degree" along with "parents, children, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, grandparents, great grandparents, grandkids (and) great grandkids." To emphasize his suspension of 5th Amendment rights, he added, "There would be no investigation." Of course, as a former attorney with a degree in government Cotton should be expected to know language from Article III of the Constitution bars Congress from punishing treason based on "corruption of blood" -- the prohibition of sanctions based on mere familial ties.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Good Morning!

Just woke up (It is just after 7:30 am here) to the news that Netanyahu won the Israeli election. When I went to bed it was thought to be a tie. Shows how things can change. 

I wonder how this will affect the US during the next couple of years.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Good Morning!
> 
> Just woke up (It is just after 7:30 am here) to the news that Netanyahu won the Israeli election. When I went to bed it was thought to be a tie. Shows how things can change.
> 
> I wonder how this will affect the US during the next couple of years.


Prepare for war with Iran along with any other countries in that region we aren't already bombing or have kids stationed in.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Good Morning!
> 
> Just woke up (It is just after 7:30 am here) to the news that Netanyahu won the Israeli election. When I went to bed it was thought to be a tie. Shows how things can change.
> 
> I wonder how this will affect the US during the next couple of years.


Very disappointing news.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Getting pushed it is, too, when you have a member of the Supremes saying that the freedom of religion clause in the constitution was actually meant to only apply to christians.


And which Christians does he mean? Catholics? Presbyterians? Baptists? Is he planning to promote a holy war?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And which Christians does he mean? Catholics? Presbyterians? Baptists? Is he planning to promote a holy war?


I think he means all flavors except maybe Mormons but especially Catholics since without the Catholic Church there would be no other groups that call on Jesus as their founder.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Now that he has resigned, he is no longer protected by his status as a representative and doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the Ethics Committee. He's open to criminal prosecution. My guess is, he will face charges. Can't happen soon enough.


He reported mileage on his car, that was supposedly used for campaign or congressional work, that was more than the total miles on his car. What a jackass to think he could or should get away with that.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> He reported mileage on his car, that was supposedly used for campaign or congressional work, that was more than the total miles on his car. What a jackass to think he could or should get away with that.


Not surprising, though since that group all show such disdain for the law when it comes to themselves.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> I think he means all flavors except maybe Mormons but especially Catholics since without the Catholic Church there would be no other groups that call on Jesus as their founder.


Ha Ha.

With his kind of logic, then he must mean Jews since there would be no other Christian groups period.

I lost sight of what idiot you are talking about or about whom you are talking.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha.
> 
> With his kind of logic, then he must mean Jews since there would be no other Christian groups period.
> 
> I lost sight of what idiot you are talking about or about whom you are talking.


I was talking about Scalia and his comment that he 'understood' the founding fathers to be talking about christian religions only when they added the freedom of religion. He's one of those who gets highly offended if you remind him that Jesus had a Jewish mother.


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