# knitting sleeves top-down in-the-round



## bethn (Dec 26, 2012)

Knitting the Farmstand Tee (Interweave Knits Summer 2014) and really not liking the way the sleeves were designed. So....off to the internet to hunt down some tips for knitting them top-down and in-the-round. This is by far the best of the bunch!
http://bygumbygolly.com/2013/10/how-to-knit-seamless-set-in-sleeves-from-the-top-down/#comment-315706
Every time I got to one of those "crap -- what do I do now" points, she had it covered. This is a real keeper!


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## knit4ES (Aug 24, 2015)

OOOOO.... good.... thank you for sharing this...


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## MrsMurdog (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you. Saved it.


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## dyzajic (May 15, 2015)

thanks, saved


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

I love bygumbygolly. It's a great resource. I have been knitting this sleeve technique for years and it's fun. The only thing I would change is the wrap and turn method.

https://magdamakes.wordpress.com/short-rows/

http://verypink.com/2014/12/31/german-short-rows/

http://cocoknits.com/tips-and-tutorials/techniques/how-to-knit-shadow-wrap-short-rows/


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

This helped me a lot when I first tried this type of sleeve. There are other tutorials with slight difference that I liked also. On one video which I lost and can't find again I picked up a fabulous tip: When picking up the stitches on the armhole carry along a thread of contrasting color, then when you work into the stitch treat the two strands as one. Later when you need to adjust the tension of those stitches (mine are always too loose) it's much easier to find them. I almost always do this when I pu&k now.

I don't use w&t, I sub German short rows.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

GrumpyGramma said:


> This helped me a lot when I first tried this type of sleeve. There are other tutorials with slight difference that I liked also. On one video which I lost and can't find again I picked up a fabulous tip: When picking up the stitches on the armhole carry along a thread of contrasting color, then when you work into the stitch treat the two strands as one. Later when you need to adjust the tension of those stitches (mine are always too loose) it's much easier to find them. I almost always do this when I pu&k now.
> 
> I don't use w&t, I sub German short rows.


Wow, This is an outstanding tip! Thank you so much for sharing it!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I found instructions years ago in a column by Pat Trexler. Mine doesn't have those helpful illustrations, but also doesn't need wraps (I don't like wrap and turn short rows). I adapted the instructions a bit, and if these are helpful as an addendum to the ones bethn was kind enough to share, I am happy to tag along with them.

(A note to a friend to whom I e-mailed the document) This is the technique from the Pat Trexler article with some refinements I have added as I have used the instructions. It makes a really nice sleeve cap without the fiddling that needs to be done to set a separate sleeve into an arm hole. I do not love sewing pieces together, so this is a great find for me.

KNITTING SLEEVES DOWN

When you are instructed to bind off stitches on the shoulders to get your slope, don't bind off. Place the stitches on a holder, preferably a short circular needle. You usually have this sloping bind off in three sections. When you put the hold stitches on your hold needle, slip the first stitch of the next row before you knit or purl across. When you have all the shoulders done, match the correct ones and either do a three needle bind off or Kitchener stitch. The three needle bind off gives you a more stable shoulder line. Do the three needle bind off on the wrong side to give a neat finish.

You can leave the sides seams open or work in the round. Using a circular needle pick up your sleeve stitches along the armhole edge as follows. I like working in the round with a long needle and the magic loop technique.

With the right side of your work facing you, pick up one stitch in each bound off stitch worked at the beginning of the armhole shaping of one front section. Continue picking up stitches all around the armhole and end by picking up one stitch in each bound of stitch on the back section.

To correctly space the stitches, mark the armhole edge (excluding the bound off edges) at one inch intervals. In each one inch space pick up the number of stitches that equals your stitch gauge. For example, with a five-stitch-per-inch gauge, pick up five stitches between each set of markers.

Next divide the number of stitches on your needle by three starting at the arm pit and place markers on either side of the cap. If the number is not evenly divisible by three, allot the extra stitch(es) to the center third which comprises the top of the sleeve cap.

On the wrong side, purl across two thirds of the stitches on the needle. Turn and knit across the center third of the stitches then knit the next stitch on the needle.

Turn and purl back across the center stitches and purl the next stitch on the needle. Continue working this way, making "short rows" by working one extra stitch at each end, turning to work back after doing so, until you are working on all the picked up stitches. When this is done, you will have completed the sleeve cap smoothly and have reached the underarm.

Refer back to your pattern to note the number of stitches you would have cast on had you begun at the cuff. Subtract this number from the number of stitches you have on your needle. This gives you the number of stitches you need to decrease as you work down the arm to the cuff. Make these decreases in pairs at each end of a single knit row; at the beginning k1,sl1, k1. psso; at the end k2tog then k the last stitch. Calculate how many rows to knit and purl evenly between decrease rows using your gauge as a guide. When you reach the length you need, allowing for the length of the cuff, k2 p2 rib the cuff as long as you need it or do a decorative cuff, whatever works for you.

If you work the sleeves in the round once you get to the underarm, marking the underarm seam and decreasing ending up using double pointed needles or magic loop when you get to where it is too small for a 16 inch circular needle. I suggest binding off in Jeny Staiman's "Surprisingly Stretchy Bind Off". It is a nice touch to do the center underarm stitch knit through the back loop or purled to make it look more like a seam.

What is nicest about this is you don't have to be an engineer or a math major to do it right.

If you do the sleeves flat, when both sleeves are completed, join the sides of the sweater and the sleeves. I found Kitchener stitch perfect for this, or you can use mattress stitch.



bethn said:


> Knitting the Farmstand Tee (Interweave Knits Summer 2014) and really not liking the way the sleeves were designed. So....off to the internet to hunt down some tips for knitting them top-down and in-the-round. This is by far the best of the bunch!
> http://bygumbygolly.com/2013/10/how-to-knit-seamless-set-in-sleeves-from-the-top-down/#comment-315706
> Every time I got to one of those "crap -- what do I do now" points, she had it covered. This is a real keeper!


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Wow, This is an outstanding tip! Thank you so much for sharing it!


You're welcome. I'm just glad I thought about it since you were glad to find it. I usually do my pu&k stitches with a smaller needle and sometimes wrap the backwards to help eliminate all that looseness I manage to have. I've had as much as a couple of yards of yarn that I had to work back to the beginning in the tension adjustment process. When I'm cutting it close on yardarge, that's a major biggie.

I wish I hadn't lost the link to the video. I think there were other helpful things in it. Until I learned this method I didn't do set in sleeves because I could never get them to look good. I've not tried the contiguous ones (I think that's what they're called; they're knit as a part of a seamless whole and shaped as you move down and knit the rest of the garment) and think they might need the stability of a seam or pu&k in lieu of a seam. I've thought I should find a baby pattern with them to test drive it.

I like Codona as a basic pattern guide. I open it when I need a refresher on how to start the seamless, top-down, set-in sleeves construction. http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/codona


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

GrumpyGramma said:


> You're welcome. I'm just glad I thought about it since you were glad to find it. I usually do my pu&k stitches with a smaller needle and sometimes wrap the backwards to help eliminate all that looseness I manage to have. I've had as much as a couple of yards of yarn that I had to work back to the beginning in the tension adjustment process. When I'm cutting it close on yardarge, that's a major biggie.
> 
> I wish I hadn't lost the link to the video. I think there were other helpful things in it. Until I learned this method I didn't do set in sleeves because I could never get them to look good. I've not tried the contiguous ones (I think that's what they're called; they're knit as a part of a seamless whole and shaped as you move down and knit the rest of the garment) and think they might need the stability of a seam or pu&k in lieu of a seam. I've thought I should find a baby pattern with them to test drive it.
> 
> I like Codona as a basic pattern guide. I open it when I need a refresher on how to start the seamless, top-down, set-in sleeves construction. http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/codona


I have used the contiguous method, a few years ago. I don't know if you looked at the directions, but there has to be at least one stitch coming from the neck edge to be a base for the increases. I used a 2 x 2 cable flanked with a purl stitch on each side, and then 2 knit stitches on each side--10 stitches. Then I just continued the little cable panel down the sleeve. I was mostly happy with it, but I used Palette from Knit Picks, fingering weight.

I think you are right about the stability in the shoulder area, and although my sweater seemed fine in this area, I'm not sure how it would be with a heavier yarn.

Thank you for the new link. I will definitely check it out.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> I have used the contiguous method, a few years ago. I don't know if you looked at the directions, but there has to be at least one stitch coming from the neck edge to be a base for the increases. I used a 2 x 2 cable flanked with a purl stitch on each side, and then 2 knit stitches on each side--10 stitches. Then I just continued the little cable panel down the sleeve. I was mostly happy with it, but I used Palette from Knit Picks, fingering weight.
> 
> I think you are right about the stability in the shoulder area, and although my sweater seemed fine in this area, I'm not sure how it would be with a heavier yarn.
> 
> Thank you for the new link. I will definitely check it out.


I think I'll skip the contiguous sleeves for grown ups. For babies they should work fine. I'd really hate to have to rip back an entire sweater to fix a sleeve problem. I just had to cut sox to redo the toe because I got the foot too long. :sm19: That was enough fun. A real confidence builder but not something I would want to try on a sweater with contiguous sleeves.

That pattern is very basic. As long as I know the width I need for the shoulder at the top and for the back of the neck I can start a top-down set in sleeve sweater for anyone and don't need to go find a pattern. Armholes are no big deal to increase for, they're pretty standard. Once I'd done them a couple times I could wing it.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

GrumpyGramma said:


> I think I'll skip the contiguous sleeves for grown ups. For babies they should work fine. I'd really hate to have to rip back an entire sweater to fix a sleeve problem. I just had to cut sox to redo the toe because I got the foot too long. :sm19: That was enough fun. A real confidence builder but not something I would want to try on a sweater with contiguous sleeves.
> 
> That pattern is very basic. As long as I know the width I need for the shoulder at the top and for the back of the neck I can start a top-down set in sleeve sweater for anyone and don't need to go find a pattern. Armholes are no big deal to increase for, they're pretty standard. Once I'd done them a couple times I could wing it.


I'm not sure if I would use contiguous much myself. It wouldn't be my first choice. It's interesting, but not really an improvement over the short rows sleeve.


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