# Obamacare #7



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The first sentence is a spoof on your 2nd signature line. Too bad you don't have any sense of humor or self.


*tweet tweet*


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. I will consider that your Christmas gift to me. I can follow what you call "the logic," but all those twists and turns exhaust me.


The twists and turns exhaust me, too. I end up going, "Huh???"


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> If they're so ridiculous, why waste your precious time on them?
> 
> Your answer: *I don't*; you do. They are your ideas, not mine, or those of Christians.
> ...


OMG, I cannot believe you are this dumb. Read again my simply worded answer that I've now placed in bold type for you. How thick _is_ your skull ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No use, Purl--the flock of little birdies fluttering madly about her head would just gobble them up.


Thank you, Susan. That was very funny.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG, I cannot believe you are this dumb. Read again my simply worded answer that I've now highlighted for you. How thick _is_ your skull ...


Is that how you admit you still haven't gotten my point? By calling me dumb? So be it. Everyone here knows what you mean.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

KPG can't help it.....She doesn't understand anything that with or without punctuation. Either way...she's easily confused. And don't give her any really big words. I have, many times, had to post the meaning of words for her and her friends when they don't understand the big ones. So this type of thing is pretty common with her. .....


Poor Purl said:


> Because it begins with "then"? It was just following what you said; literate people may refer to it as style.
> 
> What you think is an "obsession" with the Jewish Bible is simply my repeating the phrase so that I don't use the insulting term "Old Testament." The first five books are called the Torah; the Jewish Bible consists of much more, which I won't list (it can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#The_Hebrew_Bible )
> 
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No use, Purl--the flock of little birdies fluttering madly about her head would just gobble them up.


Editing now Susan - I thought it was beneath you? (100)


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't that a perfectly good reason for doing things that way? She absolutely knows why she does what she does.


Same answer applies: I don't know; ask her. She'll probably give you the same answer as well.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I knew it was some major idiot....
> 
> :roll:


tsk tsk with the name calling

Do you kiss your grandkids with that mouth?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

sorry double post


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Editing now Susan - I thought it was beneath you? (100)


No, Tweety. When I find I've addressed the wrong person I generally go back and change it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I did months ago.


Then it's time to retire it. It's nasty and untrue, which has never stopped you before, but let's see whether you can be polite now.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. I will consider that your Christmas gift to me. I can follow what you call "the logic," but all those twists and turns exhaust me.


Go right ahead. I've already sent out my Christmas gifts to my KP friends. Unfortunately, your name didn't make that list, but I am happy you have received something else from me instead that will benefit me as well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Same answer applies: I don't know; ask her. She'll probably give you the same answer as well.


So?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Then it's time to retire it. It's nasty and untrue, which has never stopped you before, but let's see whether you can be polite now.


Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Because it begins with "then"? It was just following what you said; literate people may refer to it as style.


One last time:



Poor Purl said:


> Then all those proofs that the Jewish Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah are based on translations?


The string of words above, yours, that I referred to, is not a complete sentence or even a complete thought regardless of the first word. Literate people recognize that fact.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, Tweety. When I find I've addressed the wrong person I generally go back and change it.


***wiggle*** ***wiggle****

chirp chirp


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Hey.....I think she must have that sentence copied & saved, and ready to go.....because she's used it on most of us. She says that when she gets real confused and can't answer you.....So I guess you've been initiated into KPG's (I'm to stupid to answer anymore of the hard questions, time to paste [my go] put down) club.


Poor Purl said:


> Is that how you admit you still haven't gotten my point? By calling me dumb? So be it. Everyone here knows what you mean.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


 :thumbup: I like it and think it should become commonly used.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh....now she's stealing other peoples phrases.....
Can't think of any of your own?...Snicker-snicker....


knitpresentgifts said:


> ***wiggle*** ***wiggle****


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So you are _G-d_? I know you are a Jew, but don't believe in fairy tales. So, how do you know what is the Truth and what is correctly interpreted? The original text was in Hebrew, but you don't believe that either. Now you say you don't believe the translations from the Hebrew.
> 
> Judaism and the translations from the original Hebrew and languages of the _Bible_ are a 'living' faith and language constantly changing its beliefs, translations and teachings, yet you know better and what is absolute.
> 
> I'd like to meet _God_ face-to-face here on earth. When are you available to talk nonsense?


The original text was in Aramaic. then it was translated into Greek, then it translated and translated. Unless you know the meaning of the Aramaic, according to those times you know not anything. I am qualified to come to my own conclusions as are you. I choose not to believe that the bible is the truth. There are other religions that believe they have the true faith. Who are you to declare that you have the only true faith? Such arrogance, such pride. You suffer from the inability to determine what is real and what is a fairy tale.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes, that's exactly what she does......she thinks she's rattling you....She's a bit slow on the uptake...


Poor Purl said:


> Is that how you admit you still haven't gotten my point? By calling me dumb? So be it. Everyone here knows what you mean.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The word "love" doesn't mean the same thing to you that it does to me. If I were to "love" everyone, or even all Jews, that "love" would necessarily be spread so thin it would be meaningless.
> 
> The legend is that God offered the Torah (first five books of the Bible) to various nations, and they all turned it down because they didn't like some of the laws in it: not eating pork, not coveting your neighbor's wife, not stealing, the list goes on. Finally, after all this frustration, God went to a nation so small that he had ignored them until now. But to make sure he could finally stop asking nations, before he offered the Torah to the Hebrews, he lifted up a mountain and held it over their heads. They chose to accept it rather than be buried under the mountain, as any rational people would. And that's how God made his choice. Not one to instill happiness in the chosen.


If nothing else, the Jews are practical.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow. This sort of remark borders on antisemitism. You might want to consider pulling back, KPG.


Scratch the surface of most people and you will probably find an Anti-Semite.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, you all have a great evening, I'm off to get ready to go and watch my GD's Sunday school Christmas program.... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> There is so much wrong, in these your few words, I give up. You don't want answers you want to brag and put yourself on a pedestal and tell others off.
> 
> May God bless you even though you don't need Him (according to you.)
> 
> I have forgiven your vulgar words to me, but _God_ won't forgive you for your eternal life until you ask Him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior.


Who died and made you Savior?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> The original text was in Aramaic. then it was translated into Greek, then it translated and translated. Unless you know the meaning of the Aramaic, according to those times you know not anything. I am qualified to come to my own conclusions as are you. I choose not to believe that the bible is the truth. There are other religions that believe they have the true faith. Who are you to declare that you have the only true faith? Such arrogance, such pride. You suffer from the inability to determine what is real and what is a fairy tale.


Hey, sweetie. YOU are the one that tells Christians we are wrong and you are the one to have it correct and all the answers YET don't believe in any organized religion. I don't declare my Faith is the only true one. Don't bother addressing me again as I don't tolerate those who speak vulgar words to me or have no respect for others. That would be you.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup:


Idiocy.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A Jew who believes in Jesus, is a person who believes Jesus walked the earth as He did. No one is a Christian because they believe in Jesus. That is your fairy tale and lack of true knowledge.


I believe that Jesus walked this earth. I believe that he was a rabbi, a teacher. I do not believe that he is the Messiah. A messianic Jew has accepted Jesus, thus is now a Christian.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I thought the same. But G-d will set us straight, I'm sure.


Nothing or no one could possible set you straight.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Fine by me in your mindless actions. I prefer to question and understand that which I do rather than just mimic others blindly.


You question? You do not follow blindly. Could have fooled me. The reason I question is because everyone of you just accepts "The Word". I question who wrote it, when it was written, how it has been reinterpreted so many times, no one really knows the original meaning.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't; you do. They are your ideas, not mine, or those of Christians.


Sure.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know; ask her. Rocky said she doesn't know why she did as she did, but was taught that way at home.


Never said that......I did learn from my parents, I know they knew what they were doing.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> "We don't." We study and believe in the translated Testaments.
> 
> The _Bible_ is the Word of God. Jesus was a Jew. Therefore, Christians believe in the translated Jewish Bible as you call it along with the rest of the _Bible_ that I believe you ignore.


No translation is perfect. Once men start interpreting G-d's words it is changed for ever.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> See the words I put in boldface? Rocky didn't say them; you did.


Good grief I think I am in an alternate universe with words coming from my mouth that I never said.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hell is not a threat for a believer/saved Christian so, therefore, death has no sting or associated fear.
> 
> At least there is a term limit <12 months, I believe to you in your afterlife in Sheol. So no cause for concern I guess for you.
> 
> ...


However we do believe in reincarnation.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I distrust those who tell others what to do because they are too dumb to know any better.
> 
> Too bad none of the Libs/Progs on this thread can discuss anything intelligently for they know not what they do.


You make the allegations then blame Libs, Interesting.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You made a joke about the "blood of the lamb" but apparently you are too stupid to remember your own poor taste, idiocy and Jewish history.


I don't remember any one drenched in the blood of the lamb. It was smeared on Jewish door posts to show G-d who to skip in the plague of killing the first born male.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I called YOUR thoughts ridiculous because they ARE. Joke is and on you! :-D I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic.
> 
> Nice try attempting to force your ideas into someone else's head. Too bad you failed.


Logic.......you know not of what you speak.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> How does she not know why she does what she does?
> 
> KPG wrote:
> ...


I am so lost........your logic eludes me. Anyone care to explain it to me?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You need help; you didn't comprehend anything I wrote. God Bless You.


Did you sneeze, Purl?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Why do you love the Jews? I find that a bit strange.


Why not? Jesus was a Jew.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Go right ahead. I've already sent out my Christmas gifts to my KP friends. Unfortunately, your name didn't make that list, but I am happy you have received something else from me instead that will benefit me as well.


Where is the LOVE, KPG? Love they neighbors and all that crap.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think you are thinking the wrong thought. Is seems to me that the libs are the ones doing all the judging. You just judged me.


An observation isn't the same thing as judgment.

But in truth, i said you provided a REASON, I didn't say you yourself were judgmental and smug and in truth, even as I wrote that I didn't actually recall that you were among those most shockingly judgmental of the poor and needy in this thread. And if you weren't, why take on our "judgment" about the overly judgmental? If not, then those remarks don't apply to you at all, do they?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


Time to retire the Benghazi meme. It's over, nothing has been proven, intimated but not proven. Got to give it to the Repubs, they tried and tried and tried.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That was a joke. You typed "gruel" when you clearly meant "cruel," but I treated it as gruel, which is what the kids in _Oliver_ were fed. It would make a very cheap but dull school lunch.


That wasn't me. Don't know what you are talking about. My daughter works in the school lunch program. I never typed gruel. Tell the truth on me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The first sentence is a spoof on your 2nd signature line. Too bad you don't have any sense of humor or self.


I think you need to look up "spoof."


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, sweetie. YOU are the one that tells Christians we are wrong and you are the one to have it correct and all the answers YET don't believe in any organized religion. I don't declare my Faith is the only true one. Don't bother addressing me again as I don't tolerate those who speak vulgar words to me or have no respect for others. That would be you.


I never said the Christians are wrong. You are wrong.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why not? Jesus was a Jew.


We have been LOVED to death. Jesus being a Jew never helped us.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Is that how you admit you still haven't gotten my point? By calling me dumb? So be it. Everyone here knows what you mean.


*You* first called me dumb and then implied I was stupid minutes later. I, therefore, returned the favor stating you are dumb. If you don't like it, look to yourself or in your preening mirror.

Here's your original words of how you spoke of me:



Poor Purl said:


> "I don't think she's antisemitic; I think she's simply dumb  "


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


Then I guess I don't know whom you mean by the term. It's just such an ugly word. And you have such a one-track mind.

Oh, never mind.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And what's the point of Hell if it's not a threat?


EXACTLY right. LOL. I was so focused on some of the other harm, I forgot about the obvious: losing your soul forever, eternal damnation, hellfire and brimstone, and the Devil Himself!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Poor Purl Is this correct? I thought you told me something different, or am I mistaken?


When I said Judaism is a living "ever-changing" language and faith, I was told I was wrong. So, I'll observe with interest to see if the two Jewish people can work out their differences.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why not? Jesus was a Jew.


I'm beginning to think she hates everyone, including Jews.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then I guess I don't know whom you mean by the term. It's just such an ugly word. And you have such a one-track mind.


OK, I'll correct your incorrect sentence  again.

Proper English is, "I guess I don't know *who*  "


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The string of words above, yours, that I referred to, is not a complete sentence or even a complete thought regardless of the first word. Literate people recognize that fact.


I think you're reading the word "prophe*s*ies," a verb (from "to prophesy" ), as if it were "prophe*c*ies," a noun (from "prophecy" ). I don't blame you - it's an easy mistake to make.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think you're reading the word "prophe*s*ies," a verb (from "to prophesy" ), as if it were "prophe*c*ies," a noun (from "prophecy" ). I don't blame you - it's an easy mistake to make.


I know you are wrong again. No surprise. I acknowledge English isn't your best subject.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Poor Purl Is this correct? I thought you told me something different, or am I mistaken?


No, only a few chapters are in Aramaic. Most of it is in Hebrew, though biblical Hebrew is very different from the language spoken today and could possibly be mistaken for Aramaic. The Talmud is in Aramaic, but that's not the Bible; it's a commentary on the Bible.

Clear as mud, huh?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Did you sneeze, Purl?


It was a guffaw, but it may have sounded like a sneeze.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Time to retire the Benghazi meme. It's over, nothing has been proven, intimated but not proven. Got to give it to the Repubs, they tried and tried and tried.


They'll retire it when you drag it out of their cold, dead minds, to misquote Charlton Heston.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She regularly defames, mocks and refutes my religion that she doesn't understand and only respects her religion.
> 
> I know what she is doing. Jews are not supposed to spell out the name of God if written in a permanent fashion where it could be defaced. That does not include on-line websites which are permanently stored making them unable to be edited. If someone were to print out her posts, they would not be defacing what she posted or created but what they printed. She shows no respect for Christianity yet I do not disrespect her religion.
> 
> ...


FGS, YOU have no respect for Christianity, who are you kidding?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That wasn't me. Don't know what you are talking about. My daughter works in the school lunch program. I never typed gruel. Tell the truth on me.


Okay, but I'll have to go back about 10 pages.

Found it:
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-222136-87.html#4487561

It's the first word on the third line. But please don't take it seriously. I didn't mean it seriously.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk with the name calling
> 
> Do you kiss your grandkids with that mouth?


 :lol: :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, but I'll have to go back about 10 pages.
> 
> Found it:
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-222136-87.html#4487561
> ...


Oh my what did I mean? lol Thanks for pointing that out. Was helping my husband while I was writing.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think you're reading the word "prophe*s*ies," a verb (from "to prophesy" ), as if it were "prophe*c*ies," a noun (from "prophecy" ). I don't blame you - it's an easy mistake to make.


I thought it was quite interesting to hear a scholar of the Christian story speak yesterday about the original Holy Bible stories in Greek. 
It seems that Barabas, the Jew who was allegedly offered release in Jesus Christ's stead had first name Jesus and (the Greek comedy) last name means son of god. How amusing is that?
It seems that the writers of the "new testament" logged the choice given to the Jews as "the same thing only different".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


Sorry LTL, wrong on all counts--particularly #3. That honor goes to an overstuffed yellow canary that we all know and love (not).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OK, I'll correct your incorrect sentence  again.
> 
> Proper English is, "I guess I don't know *who*  "


The way to tell whether to use "who" or "whom" is to rewrite the sentence (or phrase) in declarative form and use "he" or "him" as the pronoun. If it sounds right with "he," use "who"; if it sounds right with "him," use "whom."

In this case, "whom you mean by the term" would become "you mean he/him by the term." I think the right word is "him," and therefore "whom" was correct in the original.

Well, I just bored myself to tears. But this is one of the areas I'm good at; I've written manuals for copy editors.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know you are wrong again. No surprise. I acknowledge English isn't your best subject.


Shows how much you know. And I'm not wrong, though maybe you would have needed "prophesizes" in order to understand it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> When I said Judaism is a living "ever-changing" language and faith, I was told I was wrong. So, I'll observe with interest to see if the two Jewish people can work out their differences.


First of all, Judaism is not a language, ever-changing or never-changing. Second, Judaism as practiced a thousand - even two thousand - years ago is still being practiced; the faith is the same, though in the past 200 years some denominations have modified the practice.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh my what did I mean? lol Thanks for pointing that out. Was helping my husband while I was writing.


Well, it gave me a chance to remember the movie _Oliver,_ which I love. So I thank you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I thought it was quite interesting to hear a scholar of the Christian story speak yesterday about the original Holy Bible stories in Greek.
> It seems that Barabas, the Jew who was allegedly offered release in Jesus Christ's stead had first name Jesus and (the Greek comedy) last name means son of god. How amusing is that?
> It seems that the writers of the "new testament" logged the choice given to the Jews as "the same thing only different".


Interesting. Where did you hear this?

I never thought of it before, but Bar-abbas means "son of a father" in Arabic, and probably Aramaic. I don't know about Greek; ask Joeysomma.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No idea--but I've also wondered about that state commonly referred to as "being saved". It certainly doesn't appear to be permanent--some Christian talk of falling in and out of grace in the blink of an eye.


That phrase, "there by the grace of God" has to be one of the most offensive groupings of words I have every heard or read. 
Honestly, it isn't an accident of fate that one person will survive and another dies or suffers? 
Give me a freaking break.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> First of all, Judaism is not a language, ever-changing or never-changing. Second, Judaism as practiced a thousand - even two thousand - years ago is still being practiced; the faith is the same, though in the past 200 years some denominations have modified the practice.


Really, this is getting ridiculous--KPG is in way over head, as even she must realize. Any moment now she'll storm off in a cloud of pinfeathers, vowing never ever to come back. We've all seen it before... I wish for once she'd keep her word.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry LTL, wrong on all counts--particularly #3. That honor goes to an overstuffed yellow canary that we all know and love (not).


You're really into birds today. But I don't know who this canary is, unless it's Lush Rimbaugh.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That phrase, "there by the grace of God" has to be one of the most offensive groupings of words I have every heard or read.
> Honestly, it isn't an accident of fate that one person will survive and another dies or suffers?
> Give me a freaking break.


Oh, yes, I agree. Which brings me to a question: a lot of people on KP ask for others to pray for them. Does God need to be reminded that someone is sick? Will he let them die if he doesn't get enough prayers, like Tinker Bell? Does he really need all that attention to make him do something good?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're really into birds today. But I don't know who this canary is, unless it's Lush Rimbaugh.


Close--but this chick carries a Bible under her wing and uses the pages to line the bottom of her bird cage.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really, this is getting ridiculous--KPG is in way over head, as even she must realize. Any moment now she'll storm off in a cloud of pinfeathers, vowing never ever to come back. We've all seen it before... I wish for once she'd keep her word.


A cloud of pinfeathers. Wow. I've noticed this before about you: on any day that you use metaphors, they're all related. Today it's birds, but a few weeks ago it was something else (don't ask me to remember what). Very poetic. Each of your days on KP is a Shakespearean sonnet.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Close--but this chick carries a Bible under her wing and uses the pages to line the bottom of her bird cage.


Then it's either the Church Lady or Sarah Palin.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I've spent most of my waking hours today on this thread. I have to get off. Now I realize why I try to stay away. So good night, all. See you in the more civilized threads.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've spent most of my waking hours today on this thread. I have to get off. Now I realize why I try to stay away. So good night, all. See you in the more civilized threads.


Night, Purl.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A cloud of pinfeathers. Wow. I've noticed this before about you: on any day that you use metaphors, they're all related. Today it's birds, but a few weeks ago it was something else (don't ask me to remember what). Very poetic. Each of your days on KP is a Shakespearean sonnet.


Thanks, Purl. I'm blushing.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OK, I'll correct your incorrect sentence  again.
> 
> Proper English is, "I guess I don't know *who*  "


No, whom -- as the object of the phrase -- is correct. It doesn't SOUND like it, since so few people say it correctly in everyday speech, but it is.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl wrote:
Then all those proofs that the Jewish Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah are based on translations?



knitpresentgifts said:


> The string of words above, yours, that I referred to, is not a complete sentence or even a complete thought regardless of the first word. Literate people recognize that fact.


No, it IS a complete sentence. It has a subject (proofs), verb (are based on) and an object (translations).


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It was a guffaw, but it may have sounded like a sneeze.


ROFL. Very witty.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The way to tell whether to use "who" or "whom" is to rewrite the sentence (or phrase) in declarative form and use "he" or "him" as the pronoun. If it sounds right with "he," use "who"; if it sounds right with "him," use "whom."
> 
> In this case, "whom you mean by the term" would become "you mean he/him by the term." I think the right word is "him," and therefore "whom" was correct in the original.


That's a good tip. I do a similar thing, but hadn't thought of "codifying" it like that.



> Well, I just bored myself to tears. But this is one of the areas I'm good at; *I've written manuals for copy editors.*


Well, that's scary as hell. (kidding -- sort of)


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> However we do believe in reincarnation.


Now that's interesting. I've enjoyed the comments by you Purl. I had no idea the Jewish faith included a belief in reincarnation.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Did anyone see this idiot from Forbes Magazine on the Daily Show?

http://rackjite.com/daily-show-jessica-williams-makes-fool-forbes-columnist-john-tamny/


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A Jew who believes in Jesus, is a person who believes Jesus walked the earth as He did. *No one is a Christian because they believe in Jesus. * That is your fairy tale and lack of true knowledge.


How can that possibly be true?

from Wikipedia:


> There are diverse interpretations of Christianity which sometimes conflict. However, "Whatever else they might disagree about, Christians are at least united in believing that Jesus has a unique significance.


So, please tell me how one is or becomes a Christian if not by believing in Jesus Christ.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is the explanation of the Greek, Empress Purl.

It seems they borrow from the Aramaic.

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Barabbas.html#.UrJHOptilbs

The gentleman who brought this to light is a Christian, he is from Middlebury, VT (maybe). 
He has just written a book about Jesus as a man walking among the people for at least part of his life. 
He brought up several contradictions. 
Here is a short interview. I heard him speaking on NPR.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/vermont-professor-to-release-book-on-jesus-contrasts-with-zealot-bestseller-103426/


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> But what about folks who lived before Christ or simply have never been exposed to Christianity, like the Native Americans before Columbus? Not at all fair to cast them into hell, in my opinion.


And THAT was precisely why and how I started deeply questioning MY faith (I was raised Catholic) along about the 4th grade. There were other idiotic or arbitrary and unfair teachings as well: You weren't allowed to attend any other type of church -- not even for weddings and funerals. You couldn't eat meat on Fridays. You were guilty of a mortal sin (as opposed to a venial sin) for missing Mass on Sunday. Babies and others not baptized before death, even if born in countries where you had no chance of knowing anything ABOUT Christianity let alone getting yourself baptized, would be sent to limbo, a fairly unpleasant place, FOR ETERNITY. And oh yes, the Pope is infallible.

One thing for sure, I wanted MY God to be at least rational, at least more compassionate than most humans, and certainly not arbitrary, fickle and worse.

I've posted this before, but the day I "left" for good -- and never looked back -- was the day I learned, in the 7th grade, that any pregnant woman who found herself in the ER of a Catholic hospital in a medical emergency with her pregnancy had no choice in the matter: If there had to be a choice between saving the fetus or saving her life, the fetus would ALWAYS win. Always.

"They wouldn't ask her?" No.
"Or her husband?" No.
"Not her parents?" No.
"Or any other children?" No. 
"What if she's not Catholic?" No matter.

It was the very early 1960s, and I'd never heard the words feminism or misogyny, but I can assure you that my not very well articulated thoughts at that moment were nevertheless as coherent as could be: Whoa, let me outta here, this is NO place for females. To this day I am filled with low-level rage at the rank misogyny inherent in such a rule (which I am pretty sure still stands).

I continued to go to Mass every Sunday just to keep peace at home -- what, an hour so out of my life each week, but once I went off to college, I never again set foot in a Catholic church except as a bemused and very infrequent visitor.

Now, I was a deeply spiritual child and consider myself a deeply spiritual adult with a melange of beliefs. Because I value spirituality so much, I try not to be particularly bigoted about others' religious beliefs and practices because spirituality doesn't depend on religion, but can accompany it and that is my hope for people who ARE religious - that they have also discovered spirituality, the richer the better.

We also live in a nation that values religious freedom -- which also MUST include freedom FROM religion or there can be no religious "freedom" at all. So I believe in the high value of allowing others to believe as they wish, as long as it doesn't harm others (like teachings about women's inferiority and how sinful being gay is do). So I don't accuse others of believing in fairy tales, or the like.

Having said all that, one thing does occur to me lately about the Christian right and some of it is informed by my very own experience. Given the fact that people who are "believers" have to engage in quite a bit of twisted, absolutely tortured logic to believe some of the things they do, it's no wonder that they are so prone to believe the lies fed to them constantly by conservative politicians. They've been "trained" to accept authoritarians' pronouncements, without critical thinking.

The other thing I'll say is somewhat crude, but definitely apropos. It's something I found on Facebook a while ago, and it was one of those memes with a picture of Maggie Smith as Dame whoever-she-is on Downton Abbey. It said: "Religion is like a penis. It's perectly okay to have one, and be very proud of it. But if you want to take it out and wave it in my face, we have a problem."

I don't repeat that to be insulting, but to drive home what I consider is a very important point: I and many others -- non-Christians and other types of Christians -- are perfectly happy for you to believe and enjoy whatever religion you happen to prefer. (You = any of you.) When you start telling us how we non-believers will fare in the afterlife, what we must do to be 'saved,' how inadequate we are because we're not "true believers" and so forth, you're going too far.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


Yes, this is the kind of thing I was just referring to.

I know you mean well -- or think you do.

But the inherent arrogance is -- well, pretty off-putting.

And frankly, I think God would have you know that your help isn't really needed; she can take care of the rest of us herself.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 wrote:
I have never thought of myself as a sinner. I do not feel lost. I don't believe in Hell. What's wrong with me? I try not to hurt people in any way ...



knitpresentgifts said:


> There is so much wrong, in these your few words, I give up. You don't want answers you want to brag and put yourself on a pedestal and tell others off.
> 
> May God bless you even though you don't need Him (according to you.)
> 
> I have forgiven your vulgar words to me, but _God_ won't forgive you for your eternal life until you ask Him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior.


And see? To that I would say: *There is so much wrong, in these your few words, I give up. You don't want answers you want to brag and put yourself on a pedestal and tell others what to do and how to do it in their spiritual life.*

And no, no judgment _there!_

Look -- I don't really want to engage in any religious wars or insult anyone, no matter how much I may disagree with their beliefs. I know you can't change my mind about anything and I'm pretty sure the reverse is true as well.

The one thing I'd like to perhaps drop a hint about is that the boosterism and triumphalism of the type expressed in the above passage is, as I said, off-putting and unlikely to garner any converts. In my own spiritual beliefs, this type of thing just isn't done because of the clear understanding that as a soul evolves, it naturally gravitates to our belief systems. So we don't go proseletyzing in any way. It's unnecessary and unproductive not to mention a real drag and a crashing waste of time!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> When I said Judaism is a living "ever-changing" language and faith, I was told I was wrong. So, I'll observe with interest to see if the two Jewish people can work out their differences.


If you get 10 Jews stranded on a desert island, you will have ten synagogues. We are a feisty lot.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, yes, I agree. Which brings me to a question: a lot of people on KP ask for others to pray for them. Does God need to be reminded that someone is sick? Will he let them die if he doesn't get enough prayers, like Tinker Bell? Does he really need all that attention to make him do something good?


Ever since I moved to the southern part of this country I never came across all this "praying". I guess northerners are just heathens. I really like your explanation. 
Tinker Bel must be super busy.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And THAT was precisely why and how I started deeply questioning MY faith (I was raised Catholic) along about the 4th grade. There were other idiotic or arbitrary and unfair teachings as well: You weren't allowed to attend any other type of church -- not even for weddings and funerals. You couldn't eat meat on Fridays. You were guilty of a mortal sin (as opposed to a venial sin) for missing Mass on Sunday. Babies and others not baptized before death, even if born in countries where you had no chance of knowing anything ABOUT Christianity let alone getting yourself baptized, would be sent to limbo, a fairly unpleasant place, FOR ETERNITY. And oh yes, the Pope is infallible.
> 
> One thing for sure, I wanted MY God to be at least rational, at least more compassionate than most humans, and certainly not arbitrary, fickle and worse.
> 
> ...


I am so happy that you commented on this thread. A voice of reason. You stated what I consider to be the obvious very well.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Now that's interesting. I've enjoyed the comments by you Purl. I had no idea the Jewish faith included a belief in reincarnation.


I wouldn't have described it like that; it was Rocky who said that. I'll PM you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I wouldn't have described it like that; it was Rocky who said that. I'll PM you.


When I studied Kabbalah, our teacher went into detail about reincarnation. Kabbalah is the metaphysical part of Judaism.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, this is the kind of thing I was just referring to.
> 
> I know you mean well -- or think you do.
> 
> ...


I too don't care for proselytizing--not because I dislike the arrogance of those who feel compelled to do it (most seem reasonably pleasant and sincere) but because I find the whole deal offensive. The thought of good decent people being tossed into Hell because they aren't "saved" is abhorrent to me--there's no way I'd let myself be drawn into Heaven while family members, friends, and much of the world burned in the eternal flames. You can bet I'd have something to say to Him about that--and if He refused to budge on the matter, well, I'd let Him throw me in too. Who'd want to spend eternity with a deity like that?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Did anyone see this idiot from Forbes Magazine on the Daily Show?
> 
> http://rackjite.com/daily-show-jessica-williams-makes-fool-forbes-columnist-john-tamny/


Hilarious. She really does make his idiocy very obvious.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Hilarious. She really does make his idiocy very obvious.


Obvious to Progressive, not so obvious to conservatives. Who on the RW of this forum looked at that segment and identified with him?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


 :thumbup: You are a faithful witness to Christ, CB.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Here is the explanation of the Greek, Empress Purl.
> 
> It seems they borrow from the Aramaic.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I've read your first link; I'll listen to the rest when I'm alone; there's too much going on here for me to pay attention.

This is very interesting.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I thought being a Jew was both heritage and religion?


So did I.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Man I wish I had kept count of how many times you've told people not to speak to you again.....the total has to be getting up towards the triple digits by now. But so far, you've come back and talked to them again & again....Darn! :roll:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, sweetie. YOU are the one that tells Christians we are wrong and you are the one to have it correct and all the answers YET don't believe in any organized religion. I don't declare my Faith is the only true one. Don't bother addressing me again as I don't tolerate those who speak vulgar words to me or have no respect for others. That would be you.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

LOL....I think she got that word from me....I never bothered to check if it was a real word...It's just a word we have always used when our GD's have told a fib. We say they are spoofing...:XD: ....I didn't know she was going to use the word herself..... :XD:... :XD: This is just too funny!!!!


Poor Purl said:


> I think you need to look up "spoof."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And THAT was precisely why and how I started deeply questioning MY faith (I was raised Catholic) along about the 4th grade. There were other idiotic or arbitrary and unfair teachings as well: You weren't allowed to attend any other type of church -- not even for weddings and funerals. You couldn't eat meat on Fridays. You were guilty of a mortal sin (as opposed to a venial sin) for missing Mass on Sunday. Babies and others not baptized before death, even if born in countries where you had no chance of knowing anything ABOUT Christianity let alone getting yourself baptized, would be sent to limbo, a fairly unpleasant place, FOR ETERNITY. And oh yes, the Pope is infallible.
> 
> One thing for sure, I wanted MY God to be at least rational, at least more compassionate than most humans, and certainly not arbitrary, fickle and worse.
> 
> ...


That's a wonderful story about you in 7th grade. In fact, the whole message is a good one. You needn't wonder about whether the Church has changed its stand on choosing a fetus over a mother; there have been several recent incidents, in Ireland, I think, when women have been allowed to die rather than abort a fetus.

But what you took right from my head was the following:

"Given the fact that people who are "believers" have to engage in quite a bit of twisted, absolutely tortured logic to believe some of the things they do, it's no wonder that they are so prone to believe the lies fed to them constantly by conservative politicians. They've been "trained" to accept authoritarians' pronouncements, without critical thinking." Except you said it better than I would have (not a complete sentence - don't report me to the grammar gestapo).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And frankly, I think God would have you know that your help isn't really needed; she can take care of the rest of us herself.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> If you get 10 Jews stranded on a desert island, you will have ten synagogues. We are a feisty lot.


And a dozen different opinions. Boy, can we argue.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> When I studied Kabbalah, our teacher went into detail about reincarnation. Kabbalah is the metaphysical part of Judaism.


Sort of. Most practicing Jews I know have no interest in it, except for the stories about dybbuks and the Golem. Is it really reincarnation, or is it reanimation after death? Does the soul go into a different body? And how did your teacher know?

And are there zombies????


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, this is the kind of thing I was just referring to.
> 
> I know you mean well -- or think you do.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Only you would drag the Pope into Politics. He's in the business of saving souls, not bolstering your Republican fanaticism....


Please understand history. Pope's election opened the Poles' eyes to the fact that they were a united majority against an oppressive, socialist government. A government, under whose rule/dictates one was basically forced to lie, cheat, steal and commit other petty crimes, in order to survive day to day, to feed one's family, and to provide the barest of necessities. John Paul II's election gave Poles the courage to abolish a government which forced them to SIN in order to survive. When one helps to stop people from committing sins, isn't one saving souls?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> LOL....I think she got that word from me....I never bothered to check if it was a real word...It's just a word we have always used when our GD's have told a fib. We say they are spoofing...:XD: ....I didn't know she was going to use the word herself..... :XD:... :XD: This is just too funny!!!!
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol:


It's a real word, meaning something like a takeoff or parody. But I like your usage better, and it also fits:

www.thefreedictionary.com/spoof‎
A gentle satirical imitation; a light parody. tr.v. spoofed, spoof·ing, spoofs. 1. To deceive. 2. To do a spoof of; satirize gently.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins wrote:
Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.



Knitry said:


> Yes, this is the kind of thing I was just referring to.
> 
> I know you mean well -- or think you do.
> 
> ...


I would have to agree, in part because it is the Christians who evangelize that are being rejected. Most of us who started our belief histories in some form of organized religion are willing to admit that we could be wrong and another belief system might be correct. 
I think that God understands that I am not rejecting God in whatever form I reject that threatening tone and the arrogance.
I also believe that God understands that evangelists just can't help it and forgives them.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course--but it seems a bit odd that the self-proclaimed Christians in the thread are still (one week before Christmas) riveted on themselves and their spiritual development and not on the One who makes it possible. Salvation is a wondrous gift, to be sure--but they can't tear their eyes off the package long enough to even look up at the Giver.


It is in our spiritual development that God manifests Himself. We are His hands, eyes, feet, mouth, etc.. Only He can judge because He knows our soul.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Anyone who preaches hate & Separatism the way you do must be a very unhappy desperate person...... It really is unnatural to go though all the effort you go though to sway people's opinion. And look who you've persuaded......the lunatic fringe. But that's no better than you deserve.


There you go again! Twisting my words and meanings! :thumbdown:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I would have to agree, in part because it is the Christians who evangelize that are being rejected. Most of us who started our belief histories in some form of organized religion are willing to admit that we could be wrong and another belief system might be correct.
> I think that God understands that I am not rejecting God in whatever form I reject that threatening tone and the arrogance.
> I also believe that God understands that evangelists just can't help it and forgives them.


Well put.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It makes me sad that you have so many issues. If you are a Christian and so am I aren't we sisters? Why so angry? I love all kinds of people. Black one, white ones, mean ones bad ones sweet ones gruel ones, rich ones, poor ones, homeless. They are all my friends. Have lots of them. All classes. I get along with just about everyone I have ever known.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I am so happy that you commented on this thread. A voice of reason. You stated what I consider to be the obvious very well.


I so appreciate your kind words f approval. I posted all that with a great deal of trepidation, knowing that many or most here would not agree with me, which is perfectly fine.


----------



## ubiquitousjsd (Dec 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


I don't see anyone making jokes or calling names because you're a Christian.

The mere notion that you seem to think that by someone criticizing something you've stated is the same thing as "rejecting Christ" is beyond arrogant, it's down right blasphemous.

Your view and understanding of Christ and His Word my indeed be wrong and by you telling your potentially messed up story of Christ may indeed prevent someone from being saved if you're leading them in the wrong direction. And you may well indeed be held accountable for that.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's a wonderful story about you in 7th grade. In fact, the whole message is a good one. You needn't wonder about whether the Church has changed its stand on choosing a fetus over a mother; there have been several recent incidents, in Ireland, I think, when women have been allowed to die rather than abort a fetus.
> 
> But what you took right from my head was the following:
> 
> "Given the fact that people who are "believers" have to engage in quite a bit of twisted, absolutely tortured logic to believe some of the things they do, it's no wonder that they are so prone to believe the lies fed to them constantly by conservative politicians. They've been "trained" to accept authoritarians' pronouncements, without critical thinking." Except you said it better than I would have (not a complete sentence - don't report me to the grammar gestapo).


Thank you too for your affirmation. And yes, you are tragically correct about the Church's misogyny here and elsewhere in the world. One Central American country (I'm forgetting which one) was in the news not long ago with one of the worst anti-woman anti-abortion laws imaginable. The details escape my memory because those are things I simply am not able to dwell on and remain sane. Anyway, I am hoping this remarkable new Pope -- who I believe is supposed to be "the last" one, isn't he? according to prophecy? -- will do something about it.

One thing I know for sure: the misogyny of the Church will continue unabated UNTIL they allow women to be ordained as full-fledged priests.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

ubiquitousjsd said:


> I don't see anyone making jokes or calling names because you're a Christian.
> 
> The mere notion that you seem to think that by someone criticizing something you've stated is the same thing as "rejecting Christ" is beyond arrogant, it's down right blasphemous.
> 
> Your view and understanding of Christ and His Word my indeed be wrong and by you telling your potentially messed up story of Christ may indeed prevent someone from being saved if you're leading them in the wrong direction. And you may well indeed be held accountable for that.


Thank you for your opinion. But since you just joined you didn't see it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well that's wonderful. Now if the present Pope could get the Republicans and Democrats together in a nice calm agreeable conference, where they could agree on how the country should be run, then I would say he should go for it.


Jokim said:


> Please understand history. Pope's election opened the Poles' eyes to the fact that they were a united majority against an oppressive, socialist government. A government, under whose rule/dictates one was basically forced to lie, cheat, steal and commit other petty crimes, in order to survive day to day, to feed one's family, and to provide the barest of necessities. John Paul II's election gave Poles the courage to abolish a government which forced them to SIN in order to survive. When one helps to stop people from committing sins, isn't one saving souls?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I too don't care for proselytizing--not because I dislike the arrogance of those who feel compelled to do it (most seem reasonably pleasant and sincere) but because I find the whole deal offensive. The thought of good decent people being tossed into Hell because they aren't "saved" is abhorrent to me--there's no way I'd let myself be drawn into Heaven while family members, friends, and much of the world burned in the eternal flames. You can bet I'd have something to say to Him about that--and if He refused to budge on the matter, well, I'd let Him throw me in too. Who'd want to spend eternity with a deity like that?


You go, girl! Well said.

As I said, that was a key thing to me: Isn't God BETTER than to be so petty and small, not to mention illogical and arbitrary and jealous and mean-spirited?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Country Bumpkins wrote:
> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.
> 
> I would have to agree, in part because it is the Christians who evangelize that are being rejected. Most of us who started our belief histories in some form of organized religion are willing to admit that we could be wrong and another belief system might be correct.
> ...


I think you're right. I think God forgives everything -- quite like the Biblical story of the Prodigal Son. And I think basically "all roads lead to Rome," by which I mean all roads _ultimately_ lead to God, with the clear exception of harmful cults -- which is not to say that all LEADERS of religions are good and holy and blameless. There is, I believe, a terrible penalty to be paid for leaders who engage in what I've referred to as "spiritual abuse" which is so often done for purposes of self-aggrandizement.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've always wondered how you actually know you're forgiven. I realize you've been told that your entire life, and it's written, but a lot of things are written that you seem not to believe (like the Sermon on the Mount). So how do you *know* it's true? Doesn't such certainty have to wait until you're dead?


Trust and faith. Sermon on the Mount is one of many guideposts Christian strive to live by.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I think you're right. I think God forgives everything -- quite like the Biblical story of the Prodigal Son. And I think basically "all roads lead to Rome," by which I mean all roads _ultimately_ lead to God, with the clear exception of harmful cults -- which is not to say that all LEADERS of religions are good and holy and blameless. There is, I believe, a terrible penalty to be paid for leaders who engage in what I've referred to as "spiritual abuse" which is so often done for purposes of self-aggrandizement.


God does forgive everything. If you ask for forgiveness.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There is not a single thing in what you call the OT, but is more properly called the Hebrew Bible, that refers to Jesus.


Many of the prophets wrote about a coming Messiah, esp. Isaiah. He prophesied more than any other about the Messiah to come He even mentions certain things that happened at Jesus' crucifixion. The name Jesus is not mentioned, if that's what your questioning.
The first five books of our Old Testament are comparable to the Jewish Torah, is that correct?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Our soap addiction was to "As the World Turns". I still miss it.ops: 


susanmos2000 said:


> I was completely hooked on TV--before I got married. Now my husband and son have taken over the set and I barely watch. Used to love All My Children, though--and it turned into a family addiction (with sister, grandmother, aunt, and one brother all enmeshed) during the Natalie/Janet era.


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## ubiquitousjsd (Dec 14, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I never said the Christians are wrong. You are wrong.


Exactly. The hubris of some people that whatever THEY speak IS Christianity and therefore you're attacking Christianity _itself_ if you question _them_ is, IMO, an insult to God and Jesus. They literally can't tell the difference between themselves and Christ.

I will say, as a Christian, that when we are told that we must "know" Christ to be saved, what that means is that an individual must know the heart of Jesus (_even if they're not aware of Jesus himself_).

That if a person is Christ-like, in that they live a life of kindness and concern for the needy and vulnerable, they they "know" Christ and therefore are saved.

I don't make Christ out to be so petty as to presume he would require 'credit" for your soul. And if you are a good person, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit understand that you KNOW them, in that you know their "heart". Even if you haven't joined some HUMAN organized religion.

I'm sorry that so many of my fellow Christians are so cruel and arrogant towards you.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> But how could you go for fifteen years without knowing that you were a sinner? Kids in religious households (which I assume yours was) seem to understand that pretty quickly.


Children under the age of 15 have a developing conscience capable of realizing wrongs committed, but I believe the age of 15 or thereabouts, is considered old enough to make up one's own mind whether they want to be saved, baptized in Christ into the Church. I have relatives who were also saved at around that age.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You just posted this :
{It is in our spiritual development that God manifests Himself. We are His hands, eyes, feet, mouth, etc.. Only He can judge because He knows our soul.}
If we are in his hands, what are you doing trying to take his job away from him? Let God be my judge. As you said, He knows my soul. Not you. I do not like being preached to by someone like you. I have always considered people without a religious degree who try to preach their gospel to me to be Bible thumpers. You have no credentials to be preaching to me. I have not asked for your religious opinion. I have no interest what your religious beliefs are. I only care about what MY religious beliefs are. So what I want to know, is why do you continue to try to preach to me? I was baptized, confirmed, and have attended Church all my life. So please don't feel the need to enlighten me on your gospel. I was prob. raised in my Church, no differently than you were in yours. We all develop our own opinions as to what we believe as far as God is concerned as we become adults. Why are you so intent on finding fault with my beliefs?


Jokim said:


> There you go again! Twisting my words and meanings! :thumbdown:


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I remember you telling that about your daughter. I am sure the neighbor meant well just went about it the wrong way. I have been around some obnoxious Christians myself. People are all the same if they are Christians are not. Everyone messes up. We are not perfect. The only thing is we are forgiven. It is not anything we can do to deserve being good. I am sure you are a loving person with many friends and your family loves you. So does God. He sent Jesus for me and you. We can't be perfect or even good. It is just not in us. We can't keep the 10 commandments. We break one and we break them all. No one has been able to keep them. It was the reason God sent His Son to pay for our sins with His Blood on the Cross. He is the only Perfect One. Without Him we are lost.


Excellent witness to the faith, CB.
:thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I thought you might be Baptist...


Jokim said:


> Children under the age of 15 have a developing conscience capable of realizing wrongs committed, but I believe the age of 15 or thereabouts, is considered old enough to make up one's own mind whether they want to be saved, baptized in Christ into the Church. I have relatives who were also saved at around that age.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

My favorite Soap was, "Another World". When that went off the air, I just lost interest in Soap Operas.....


MaidInBedlam said:


> Our soap addiction was to "As the World Turns". I still miss it.ops:


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well there you go again. I do not believe in Relativism, it goes totally against my belief system. I have never thought myself as a god, that is what Obamacultists think about Obama. I do not idolize anyone or anything, that is for the godless to do. I do not lead people, I am trying to live my life according to the doctrine of my Church. I enjoy the company of others that are also on a similar path. Nothing more nothing less.


 :thumbup: Kudos, LTL!


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well that's wonderful. Now if the present Pope could get the Republicans and Democrats together in a nice calm agreeable conference, where they could agree on how the country should be run, then I would say he should go for it.


Perhaps he should.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

If it would help, I'd be all for it.


Jokim said:


> Perhaps he should.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You just posted this :
> {It is in our spiritual development that God manifests Himself. We are His hands, eyes, feet, mouth, etc.. Only He can judge because He knows our soul.}
> If we are in his hands, what are you doing trying to take his job away from him? Let God be my judge. As you said, He knows my soul. Not you. I do not like being preached to by someone like you. I have always considered people without a religious degree who try to preach their gospel to me to be Bible thumpers. You have no credentials to be preaching to me. I have not asked for your religious opinion. I have no interest what your religious beliefs are. I only care about what MY religious beliefs are. So what I want to know, is why do you continue to try to preach to me? I was baptized, confirmed, and have attended Church all my life. So please don't feel the need to enlighten me on your gospel. I was prob. raised in my Church, no differently than you were in yours. We all develop our own opinions as to what we believe as far as God is concerned as we become adults. Why are you so intent on finding fault with my beliefs?


I am not preaching, just stating facts, and opinions.
Don't twist my posts. It's obvious you don't understand them.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, when you state your FACTS, they come off sounding very much like your are telling other Christians that they're way of worship is all wrong. Maybe you need to modify the way you give your opinions. I don't twist anything, I just call it as I see it. 
Just how many people have to tell you that you are butting into their religious lives, and they don't want you to? Now.... I hope that it is quite obvious to you that you have nothing of the religious nature that I need to understand. God and I are on the same page....I try to do what I know he would want me to. I fail frequently, but then who doesn't? I am not perfect, and would never be so arrogant as to believe that I was. Believe me, things between God and myself are just fine.


Jokim said:


> I am not preaching, just stating facts, and opinions.
> And why is it that it that you tell everyone that it is obvious to you that we don't understand your posts?
> Don't twist my posts. It's obvious you don't understand them.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ubiquitousjsd said:


> Exactly. The hubris of some people that whatever THEY speak IS Christianity and therefore you're attacking Christianity _itself_ if you question _them_ is, IMO, an insult to God and Jesus. They literally can't tell the difference between themselves and Christ.
> 
> I will say, as a Christian, that when we are told that we must "know" Christ to be saved, what that means is that an individual must know the heart of Jesus (_even if they're not aware of Jesus himself_).
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you have the hubris and the arrogance to presume to speak for me, a Christian, as I do not believe as you do.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Wow......she pegged you right off the bat KPG.....And as I can see by your reaction to her(?) you know it too. 
When are you going to learn some humility? And you know something else? Christianity/religion was not created strictly for you.....Sorry, but you are going to have to share that with everyone across the world....so stop being so selfish with it......
Very astute of you ubiquitousjsd. The rest of us gave her the benefit of the doubt, and she didn't hesitate to tell us what heathens we were. We never did figure out exactly what we did. Guess we must have said something that wasn't in line with her strict religious upbringing. Guess she's just a religious SNOB.
I sure got a good laugh out of it though, thanks.... :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry you have the hubris and the arrogance to presume to speak for me, a Christian, as I do not believe as you do.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Wow......she pegged you right off the bat KPG.....And as I can see by your reaction to her(?) you know it too.
> When are you going to learn some humility? And you know something else? Christianity/religion was not created strictly for you.....Sorry, but you are going to have to share that with everyone across the world....so stop being so selfish with it......
> Very astute of you ubiquitousjsd. The rest of us gave her the benefit of the doubt, and she didn't hesitate to tell us what heathens we were. We never did figure out exactly what we did. Guess we must have said something that wasn't in line with her strict religious upbringing. Guess she's just a religious SNOB.
> I sure got a good laugh out of it though, thanks.... :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Hit the nail right on the head, Nussa! I've said all along,she has a God complex. And FYI she does run away when backed in a corner by way of her unintelligent posts. 
She mentioned that she doesn't leave because the ladies here before you called her on every post and now she thinks they are gone. She did a lot of disappearing then. What makes her think that those ladies aren't here under other names? I laugh at the fact that she calls you arrogant. That is her middle name.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Who died and made you Savior?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry you have the hubris and the arrogance to presume to speak for me, a Christian, as I do not believe as you do.


PPPFFFFTTT! Like you don't do it yourself? 
Your credibility is shot, KPG.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.

Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.

But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


Your question should be put to Patty Murray and Paul Ryan. 
It is Republicans who are insisting on cuts to poor people because they don't want to close tax loopholes for the rich. You really need to stop deciphering the news through partisan glasses.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, when you state your FACTS, they come off sounding very much like your are telling other Christians that they're way of worship is all wrong. Maybe you need to modify the way you give your opinions. I don't twist anything, I just call it as I see it.
> Just how many people have to tell you that you are butting into their religious lives, and they don't want you to? Now.... I hope that it is quite obvious to you that you have nothing of the religious nature that I need to understand. God and I are on the same page....I try to do what I know he would want me to. I fail frequently, but then who doesn't? I am not perfect, and would never be so arrogant as to believe that I was. Believe me, things between God and myself are just fine.


I don't presume to tell anyone how to live or what to believe. How people behave, live, think, etc.., is between them and their God. I state facts, and my opinions.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I don't presume to tell anyone how to live or what to believe. How people behave, live, think, etc.., is between them and their God. I state facts, and my opinions.


And here I thought that there was one thing that most of us agreed on, there is ONE God. Nobody owns God.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hit the nail right on the head, Nussa! I've said all along,she has a God complex. And FYI she does run away when backed in a corner by way of her unintelligent posts.
> She mentioned that she doesn't leave because the ladies here before you called her on every post and now she thinks they are gone. She did a lot of disappearing then. What makes her think that those ladies aren't here under other names? I laugh at the fact that she calls you arrogant. That is her middle name.


Yes, it is. As a missionary for Christ she's a complete failure. In the 19th century folks like that were either run out of the village or dumped in the nearest stew pot by outraged natives.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.


good morning Lakes, have a good day


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it is. As a missionary for Christ she's a complete failure. In the 19th century folks like that were either run out of the village or dumped in the nearest stew pot by outraged natives.


Why don't we just assume there's a stew pot here online and that good old KPG is simmering in her own juices. Don't know if she'll ever be edible, but we can hope so. We can charitably feed a few of the poor some KPG stew.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Why don't we just assume there's a stew pot here online and that good old KPG is simmering in her own juices. Don't know if she'll ever be edible, but we can hope so. We can charitably feed a few of the poor some KPG stew.


Brilliant, Maid! Let's not forget to pass out the Bromo-seltzer too--this is a stew guaranteed to leave behind more than a little indigestion.

:thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


If you actually believe everything you say, you need help.

And did you see the ads the anti-health pols ran to try to convince young people not to get insurance? It's a must-see experience: 



 (female version) and 



 (male version). I think even you would prefer the jammies.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Brilliant, Maid! Let's not forget to pass out the Bromo-seltzer too--this is a stew guaranteed to leave behind more than a little indigestion. :thumbup:


Actually, I think we'll need a volunteer "taster". No indigestion for the hungry, only good food!!

I once bought a stewing chicken that would not get tender no matter what I did. Pressure cooking even failed. Since the money was already spent, the damn thing had to be eaten. Could have made the Guiness Book of World Records if there was a category for how long a bite of stewing chicken had to be chewed before it could be swallowed.

I've never been able to swallow KPG's particular brand of Christianity, so I imagine she could be chewier than that old chicken... Scary thought...:XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There are no tax loopholes for rich individuals. They really pay much more than their fair share. If you really think there are please provide proof.
> 
> Obamacare is making those who make more than $200,000 (single); $250,000 (married) much more in taxes.


Well, you claim to be a tax expert, but what would you call a lower rate (15%) for capital gains (mostly claimed by the rich) and a higher rate for earned income (what most people can claim). And if there are no loopholes, please explain how some corporations making billions in profit (GE, for example) get to pay 0 in taxes? Unless you're a tax attorney, you probably don't know all the loopholes.

And just what is their *fair* share? Under Eisenhower the top marginal rate was about 90%. Now it's 39.6%, for income between $400,000 and .... there's no top. Yet they're screaming for lower taxes.

But you see no problem with food stamps for the poor, or, as in Texas, refusing federal funding for Medicaid?

I may not know much about Christianity (as your leader, KPG, has told me), but I can't believe that this imbalance would be okay with Jesus.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Did you know that there is a polite way of asking a question? Yep, there really is. And how about using real words? You might be able to have an intelligent conversation with someone if you'd stop calling people names...Like Obamacultists, which you mean in a derogatory manner. 
It's to early in the morning to start this conversation....I haven't even had my first cup of coffee.....So going to let this one go......for now.......I think someone who is more well read then I, on the subject should field this one.


lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you claim to be a tax expert, but what would you call a lower rate (15%) for capital gains (mostly claimed by the rich) and a higher rate for earned income (what most people can claim). And if there are no loopholes, please explain how some corporations making billions in profit (GE, for example) get to pay 0 in taxes? Unless you're a tax attorney, you probably don't know all the loopholes.
> 
> And just what is their *fair* share? Under Eisenhower the top marginal rate was about 90%. Now it's 39.6%, for income between $400,000 and .... there's no top. Yet they're screaming for lower taxes.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think joeysomma, Jokim, Lukelucy, & lovethelake should get the first taste.... this seems more their type of stew anyway........full of gristle, fat, and a whole lot of poison..... I mean, they made the stew what it is, they should be the first to try it. I think it's got a lot of crow in it as well......They'll be choking that down of all of eternity ...... :wink:


MaidInBedlam said:


> Actually, I think we'll need a volunteer "taster". No indigestion for the hungry, only good food!!
> 
> I once bought a stewing chicken that would not get tender no matter what I did. Pressure cooking even failed. Since the money was already spent, the damn thing had to be eaten. Could have made the Guiness Book of World Records if there was a category for how long a bite of stewing chicken had to be chewed before it could be swallowed.
> 
> I've never been able to swallow KPG's particular brand of Christianity, so I imagine she could be chewier than that old chicken... Scary thought...:XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Pardon the pun, but I think they'd chicken out.:twisted: :lol:


Nussa said:


> I think joeysomma, Jokim, Lukelucy, & lovethelake should get the first taste.... this seems more their type of stew anyway........full of gristle, fat, and a whole lot of poison..... I mean, they made the stew what it is, they should be the first to try it. I think it's got a lot of crow in it as well......They'll be choking that down of all of eternity ...... :wink:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


Oh, anyone with intelligence understands that the Dems and Obama hate the veterans, especially those who are injured or disabled fighting for our country.

It is also no surprise, this do nothing President and do nothing Harry Reid refused to allow any amendments to the budget bill in the Senate to protect the Vets' benefits. So, in order to not shut down the govt once again, good ole Harry denied any amendments to waive the veterans cuts, so the veterans benefits cuts are enacted in the legislation. Keep in mind Harry grabbed the Nuclear Option, so has complete control of the Senate, and STILL the Dems and 9 Repubs voted to cut the Vets while INCREASING taxes and the debt of our Nation. Brilliant Dems and RINOS!

Instead of the stupid Lib in PJ's for Obama's failed health plan, here's a better ad:

http://screen.yahoo.com/newsletter-hero/family-creates-amazing-xmas-jammies-083108597.html


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> good morning Lakes, have a good day


Great Gali! Merry Christmas


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

ubiquitousjsd said:


> Exactly. The hubris of some people that whatever THEY speak IS Christianity and therefore you're attacking Christianity _itself_ if you question _them_ is, IMO, an insult to God and Jesus. They literally can't tell the difference between themselves and Christ.
> 
> I will say, as a Christian, that when we are told that we must "know" Christ to be saved, what that means is that an individual must know the heart of Jesus (_even if they're not aware of Jesus himself_).
> 
> ...


The thing I like about your explanation/description is that under this scenario, who can be "saved" (go to heaven, I presume that means) isn't exclusive but INclusive: live as Christ would want you to live and you're in.

It removes that boosterism and triumphalism. Of course, doing THAT is a huge negative for those church leaders -- an there are and have been plenty, plenty, plenty of them -- who like to use the Bible and the Church to manipulate and control people.

Having been raised Catholic, and having "studied" that religion's history a bit, it became clear to me that there came a point when the fairly early church leaders started using the faith to control people. And from that we got the "miraculous" (but rather violent) conversions of the pagans all across Europe, plus the Crusades, the Inquisition and all manner of other atrocities, including the "conversion" of Native Americans on both American continents, and in fact the conversion of native peoples anywhere they could be found.

Not so nice, and definitely not very Christ-like. It boggles the mind to contemplate just what any of them as individuals had to believe -- and tell themselves -- to think that what they were doing was a GOOD thing. And it boggles the mind to also contemplate how they got away with it on a collective scale.

Convince people this life is all there is, their only opportunity in which to make their mark on where to spend all eternity (which is a VERY long time); scare the bejesus out of them about the choices in afterlife abodes; convince them the Church is always right, never wrong; and then feed them any line of bull that helped extend their power and influence -- and numbers. I suppose that's pretty much how it went down. This was sort of the original "We had to destroy the village in order to save it" organization. Oh yes, a small but important detail: convince them that being poor is a blessing and that if they got any money, they should give it as generously as possible to the Church.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The Capital gains rate is now 20% for high income individuals. And the rate for earned income tax increases as the amount of earned income increases.
> 
> More tax breaks are available for middle income people than for the wealthy. They are either phased out or limited once you reach a certain amount.
> 
> ...


Yep, she doesn't know much about taxes either, but talks along with the rest of the idiots as if she does anyway. What would she do if she _was rich_, become a Republican thinking she'd get lower taxes to pay and more for herself? :-D What about all the starving children?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Why don't we just assume there's a stew pot here online and that good old KPG is simmering in her own juices. Don't know if she'll ever be edible, but we can hope so. We can charitably feed a few of the poor some KPG stew.


That is sick!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Brilliant, Maid! Let's not forget to pass out the Bromo-seltzer too--this is a stew guaranteed to leave behind more than a little indigestion.
> 
> :thumbup:


That is even sicker!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Pardon the pun, but I think they'd chicken out.:twisted: :lol:


 Good one.....:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Actually, I think we'll need a volunteer "taster". No indigestion for the hungry, only good food!!
> 
> I once bought a stewing chicken that would not get tender no matter what I did. Pressure cooking even failed. Since the money was already spent, the damn thing had to be eaten. Could have made the Guiness Book of World Records if there was a category for how long a bite of stewing chicken had to be chewed before it could be swallowed.
> 
> I've never been able to swallow KPG's particular brand of Christianity, so I imagine she could be chewier than that old chicken... Scary thought...:XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted: :XD: :twisted:


What is wrong with you? Are you a cannibal?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you claim to be a tax expert, but what would you call a lower rate (15%) for capital gains (mostly claimed by the rich) and a higher rate for earned income (what most people can claim). And if there are no loopholes, please explain how some corporations making billions in profit (GE, for example) get to pay 0 in taxes? Unless you're a tax attorney, you probably don't know all the loopholes.
> 
> And just what is their *fair* share? Under Eisenhower the top marginal rate was about 90%. Now it's 39.6%, for income between $400,000 and .... there's no top. Yet they're screaming for lower taxes.


Excellent points and questions. I had just seen a couple of articles that added a little more detail. Here's one example that ought to infuriate everyone who pays taxes. It's someone's mini-report from a book they're reading:



> Im reading The Fine Print by economist David Cay Johnston. Its about how we are being royally screwed by the big corporations and the people who run them. Slow reading, since I can only read about two pages at a time without going ballistic and yelling and throwing things.
> An example:
> David Tepper of Appaloosa Management hedge fund earned $4 Billion in 2009. That means he earned $2 Million. An HOUR! (Measured like most of us do in our work lives...50 weeks... 5 days... 8 hrs a day)
> He can defer paying any taxes on 20% of that as long as the fund survives.
> ...


There's a chart at this link that shows the tremendous income disparity:



> *This Chart Shows How Rich People Make Their Money Totally Differently From Everyone Else*
> (It) basically shows that different parts of the population get their income way differently than others  and that the top 20% gets at least half of all income types. It also shows that the rich account for the overwhelming majority of all capital gains income in the country, and that everyone else fights for the scraps.
> 
> Here's what we're looking at:
> ...


I'd like to post the following entire article, but I'll just limit it to the key point that Purl's post brought to mind, but I HIGHLY recommend the entire article be read:



> * 7 Rip-Offs Corporations and the Wealthy Don't Want You to Know About
> There's no limit to corporations' ability to draw profit while screwing over Americans.
> 3. Almost 70% of Corporations Are Not Required to Pay ANY Federal Taxes*
> 
> ...


And finally, just a couple of fascinating paragraphs from an illuminating (and also infuriating) article:



> *Marty Sullivan figured out how the worlds biggest companies avoided billions in taxes. Heres how he wants to stop them.*
> It was Sullivan who shined an early light on how companies had finagled transfer prices  the price one division charges another for parts or services  to shift profits to low-tax jurisdictions.
> 
> It was Sullivan who had called out the big drug and tech companies for transferring ownership of their patents and trademarks  the source of much of their profits  to subsidiaries in Ireland and other low-tax jurisdictions.
> ...


I have to say, I really challenge ANYone to read these excerpts and still feel there is ANY moral ground on which to continue to defend and promote lower taxation for corporations or the very wealthy who run them. There is simply no moral ground on which to stand that I can see.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh come on......have a sense of humor.......It's really funny......And you know full well, that if you or one of your friends had said something like that, you'd all be rolling on the floor with laughter...This is the part about, if you're going to dish it out, you MUST be able to take it, or you don't belong here. Especially since you are quite the expert at dishing...There doesn't seem to be any rules on this particular forum that puts any subject off limits....and since this is a fictitious scenario, there's no harm in it.


Country Bumpkins said:


> That is sick!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


Obama doesn't hate veterans -- you're thinking of the Republicans. They refused to support a jobs bill for veterans. They're the ones who want to cut food stamps which, sadly, puts food in the mouth of a LOT of veterans. I'd say the hate you perceive is Republican in nature.

Oh, man, I wouldn't even mention ads in the context of Obamacare given the ads the Republicans put out to try to scare the young from enrolling -- they were not just grotesque, but truly sick. Purl already posted the links: 



 (female version) and 



 (male version). Nossirree -- those can't be topped and the last thing you need is to remind people of them.

As for your final paragraph, I don't understand your question. What is it you're asking us to defend? Is that a question about NSA spying?? Or what, exactly??


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> *I have never thought myself as a god, that is what Obamacultists think about Obama.*


I think that's not the first time you've made that charge, and I don't want to let it go unchallenged this time.

"Obamacultist" is bad enough, but accusing those of us who are not rabid Republicans of seeing or considering him as a god is -- well, blasphemous. It also blasphemes the religious/spiritual beliefs of all here (and that includes any who may say they have "none"). I'm asking you to stop. I find it incredibly offensive, and frankly would like to think it is beneath you.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh come on......have a sense of humor.......It's really funny......And you know full well, that if you or one of your friends had said something like that, you'd all be rolling on the floor with laughter...This is the part about, if you're going to dish it out, you MUST be able to take it, or you don't belong here. Especially since you are quite the expert at dishing...There doesn't seem to be any rules on this particular forum that puts any subject off limits....and since this is a fictitious scenario, there's no harm in it.


Sorry, I rather agree with CB.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> to Poor Purl:
> 
> What do you have against the rich? Is it jealously or envy?


I don't think the Libs know anything about Luke 12:48, and I do think they wouldn't take it to heart if they did.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh come on......have a sense of humor.......It's really funny......And you know full well, that if you or one of your friends had said something like that, you'd all be rolling on the floor with laughter...This is the part about, if you're going to dish it out, you MUST be able to take it, or you don't belong here. Especially since you are quite the expert at dishing...There doesn't seem to be any rules on this particular forum that puts any subject off limits....and since this is a fictitious scenario, there's no harm in it.


Never. It is disgusting talk. I do have a sense of humor.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332834206854504&set=a.198304496974143.49051.198282116976381&type=1&t Amen


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> soloweygirl, I'm still waiting for you to answer my post.......you know, This one:
> I'm sorry CB if my way of thinking makes you sad....We ALL here have "So many issues." I have no problem getting along with anyone. But I do know how to be polite, and considerate. It's the proper way to be. But you have to admit, that is not going on here. There are some extremists here. And heaven forbid they get a foot hold on this country. Why can't everyone just get along? I don't know. I didn't start this post, but I can not abide the ignorance and false information that is being spread on this site. You and I both know it was started to stir up trouble. Well it has....And I don't know if you remember who started it, but I do......and believe me......she was the dimmest bulb in the box. And I'm surprised that so many, seemingly intelligent people have taken her side. But, It is, what it is.
> 
> That's quite a bunch of BS Nussa. It is some of your best stuff.
> ...


Is harassing me being polite and considerate? I think not. FYI it is difficult to respond to a post when one is not on line or using a computer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Oh, but of course KPG is omnipotent, and knows all......she labels everyone by her standards. And her standards really suck.
> KPG, I think you need to go join a club for the self centered. Boy that would be something to see. All those self centered people in one room trying to get all the others to do things their way......they'd end up killing each other.....lol. Because you know......there can only be one God......And KPG has already tried to claim that spot....


This must be another example of you being polite and considerate. You did say it is the proper way to be. I can see the BS rising.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Oh for HEAVENS SAKE KPG.........You ARE an Oxymoron! Let it go already....Do you have some kind of condition that causes you to pick up a subject and not be able to let go of it? This is not a contest to see who knows more about the Jewish religion......It's just an opinion on your part, For the love of God, you aren't even Jewish. You're like a comma patient trying to teach someone how to swim.....sink already and let it go!


Here is another example of you being polite and considerate. The BS meter is still on the rise.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh..excuse me, I didn't mean to harass you......So, now that you are back online, can you answer the questions? Thank you!


soloweygirl said:


> Is harassing me being polite and considerate? I think not. FYI it is difficult to respond to a post when one is not on line or using a computer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> You be go ahead and read it, then maybe soloweygirl can explain to you how it is BS. Because as usual, her big mouth can never back up what she says. But then in her case ignorance is bliss....


Yet another example of said politeness and consideration. BS meter is continuing its rise.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, if I insulted you using the words of the Bible, like you do to us, would that make it okay?


soloweygirl said:


> Here is another example of you being polite and considerate. The BS meter is still on the rise.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I knew it was some major idiot....
> 
> :roll:


What a polite comment. BS meter is now almost full.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332834206854504&set=a.198304496974143.49051.198282116976381&type=1&t Amen


I completely disagree, CB. A fervent belief in God didn't stop the stop the leaders of the Inquisition, the judges in the Salem witch trials, or the Southern lynch mobs--in fact, it only fueled their murderous fury. Religion is only good for good people (to quote Mary McCarthy).


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


Even Barbara Walters admitted they thought Obama was the Messiah.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is because they do very little labor from which to have income.
> The rest of their living is paid by the taxpayers. i.e., Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, energy assistance, and SSI.


You couldn't be more wrong as in actualitythe figures themselves prove, but I'm sure it's comforting to continue to think so, isn't it? OTHERWISE, you might have to believe that the poor are NOT all poor due to "bad life choices." You might have to recognize your many gifts and privileges and realize not everyone has been similarly blessed or had it as easy or, having faced difficulties perhaps had the same wherewithall and talents and lucky breaks to climb out.

You might also have to realize that the economic times we are in are quite, quite different from the past that most of us remember. We are, in reality, in a new Depression, and only the wealthy are benefiting much from any improvements in the economy -- and that is amply shown in the stats as well. We now have 80% of Americans at or near the poverty line, and our "poverty line" describes a pretty dismal existence.

You might, in other words, be required to develop a little compassion, understanding and generosity of spirit in order to continue to live with yourself and look in the mirror. And you might be forced to face the need to let go of your judgmentalism which keeps you looking down your nose at the poor and less well off and thus feeling oh, so much better about yourself. You might even have to admit you and your overlords pay too little in taxes and should pay more.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I completely disagree, CB. A fervent belief in God didn't stop the stop the leaders of the Inquisition, the judges in the Salem witch trials, or the Southern lynch mobs--in fact, it only fueled their murderous fury. Religion is only good for good people (to quote Mary McCarthy).


What are you talking about? Of course you disagree.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry you have the hubris and the arrogance to presume to speak for me, a Christian, as I do not believe as you do.


It seems to me that some "Christians" do suffer from hubris. Is is not possible for humans to be be good moral people without accepting G-d or the tenets of any religion? Jews are not supposed to proselytize, Christianity is based on proselytizing.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

People tend to be kind and considerate to those who are kind and considerate as well. Don't expect to get it, if you don't give it. You have belittled ever religious statement made on this forum that didn't come from you or your friends.......You have to EARN consideration & politeness....Sorry.....you haven't earned that....at all.......yet.


soloweygirl said:


> Here is another example of you being polite and considerate. The BS meter is still on the rise.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There are no tax loopholes for rich individuals. They really pay much more than their fair share. If you really think there are please provide proof.
> 
> Obamacare is making those who make more than $200,000 (single); $250,000 (married) much more in taxes.


Once again Joey?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> It seems to me that some "Christians" do suffer from hubris. Is is not possible for humans to be be good moral people without accepting G-d or the tenets of any religion? Jews are not supposed to proselytize, Christianity is based on proselytizing.


Morals don't get someone to Heaven. Forgiveness does. No one can get the 10 commandments. That is why Jesus had to come to die for us. I know you don't believe in Him.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> People tend to be kind and considerate to those who are kind and considerate as well. Don't expect to get it, if you don't give it. You have belittled ever religious statement made on this forum that didn't come from you or your friends.......You have to EARN consideration & politeness....Sorry.....you haven't earned that....at all.......yet.


No she hasn't said a word about about anyone's spirtual belief. Never.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Knitry said:


> The thing I like about your explanation/description is that under this scenario, who can be "saved" (go to heaven, I presume that means) isn't exclusive but INclusive: live as Christ would want you to live and you're in.
> 
> It removes that boosterism and triumphalism. Of course, doing THAT is a huge negative for those church leaders -- an there are and have been plenty, plenty, plenty of them -- who like to use the Bible and the Church to manipulate and control people.
> 
> ...


Fear, intimidation, and keeping people ignorant keeps people paying tithes to the church any church. If you educate people, let them question, they may opt out. Churches, synagogues, mosques are actually businesses, businesses take money to run.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Even Barbara Walters admitted they thought Obama was the Messiah.

Who is THEY?


soloweygirl said:


> Even Barbara Walters admitted they thought Obama was the Messiah.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If you actually believe everything you say, you need help.
> 
> And did you see the ads the anti-health pols ran to try to convince young people not to get insurance? It's a must-see experience:
> 
> ...


Young people are figuring it out on their own. They can't afford the ACA's health insurance.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't think the Libs know anything about Luke 12:48, and I do think they wouldn't take it to heart if they did.


Bible beating once again.


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## marianna mel (Sep 26, 2013)

WOW. I figured that if a thread had over a hundred posts it must be important. So I dipped in. 
Seriously - you should maybe all just stop and think for a moment. You give a very worrying picture of American people to the rest of the world. So much hate and anger over politics, religion etc. I doubt if you can or will change anyone's opinion or point of view by continuing conversations like this........ 
The world is full of problems and injustices. We can't solve them by shouting at each other. 

Get on with your knitting. :wink:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, if I insulted you using the words of the Bible, like you do to us, would that make it okay?


I have never used words from the Bible against anyone, even you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Capital gains rate is now 20% for high income individuals. And the rate for earned income tax increases as the amount of earned income increases.
> 
> More tax breaks are available for middle income people than for the wealthy. They are either phased out or limited once you reach a certain amount.
> 
> ...


It may be envy, or it may not. I have nothing against the rich; in fact, I have some very wealthy friends, but even they admit that they don't think they're paying their share, since they've managed to make so much in this country.

The truth is, the rich don't need defending - by you, by me, or by Congress. They will continue being rich enough to have however many homes they need, to travel as often as they'd like, to have full-time servants, even if they have to pay more. But to take food out of the mouths of children in order to keep taxes as they are is offensive.

Either you're one of the 1% or you're too - um - not bright enough to realize you're being taken advantage of, too. When Scott Walker decides to drop teachers' pensions, you may notice.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Thought this was interesting, in light of the discussions we had about China recently:

*This is Why Capitalism Chose China to be the World's Manufacturer*
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/19/1263825/-This-is-Why-Capitalism-Chose-China-to-be-the-World-s-Manufacturer?showAll=yes


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Pardon the pun, but I think they'd chicken out.:twisted: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> People tend to be kind and considerate to those who are kind and considerate as well. Don't expect to get it, if you don't give it. You have belittled ever religious statement made on this forum that didn't come from you or your friends.......You have to EARN consideration & politeness....Sorry.....you haven't earned that....at all.......yet.


Your BS meter has finally overflowed. "That's all folks".


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Obvious to Progressive, not so obvious to conservatives. Who on the RW of this forum looked at that segment and identified with him?


Probably lots of them would, but would not admit it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Morals don't get someone to Heaven. Forgiveness does. No one can get the 10 commandments. That is why Jesus had to come to die for us. I know you don't believe in Him. [/quot
> 
> It must be wonderful to live such a simplistic life, believing that Jesus died for our sins, and all we have to do is "be saved" is accept him into our hearts. It seems to me that you could do any despicable act and repent and be saved. I don't think so. Murder can not be forgiven. Hurting others can not be forgiven.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No she hasn't said a word about about anyone's spirtual belief. Never.


Thank you Joey. By falsely blaming someone else Nussa feels that she is blame free.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Even Barbara Walters admitted they thought Obama was the Messiah.
> 
> Who is THEY?


You'll have to ask Barbara Walters that, it is her comment. IMO she is referring to the media, Democrats and all the "handlers" that chose Obama.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, she doesn't know much about taxes either, but talks along with the rest of the idiots as if she does anyway. What would she do if she _was rich_, become a Republican thinking she'd get lower taxes to pay and more for herself? :-D What about all the starving children?


She's listening..... and she probably know enough about taxes, having done her own (without help from some genius like Joey) for more than 30 years.

As for the rest of your message, your guess is absolutely wrong. Why on earth would someone, no matter how rich, become a Republican if they'd have to please the likes of you and completely ignore their conscious?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Young people are figuring it out on their own. They can't afford the ACA's health insurance.


They should figure it out, because they are not invincible. One auto accident could cost "us" lots of money. Telling them not to buy insurance is a disservice to them an to the rest of us.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Do you know of a site where I can find that particular incident? TY.


soloweygirl said:


> You'll have to ask Barbara Walters that, it is her comment. IMO she is referring to the media, Democrats and all the "handlers" that chose Obama.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Do you know of a site where I can find that particular incident? TY.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/17/barbara_walters_on_obama_we_thought_he_was_going_to_be_the_next_messiah.html


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Morals don't get someone to Heaven. Forgiveness does. No one can get the 10 commandments. That is why Jesus had to come to die for us. I know you don't believe in Him. [/quot
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I have to say, I really challenge ANYone to read these excerpts and still feel there is ANY moral ground on which to continue to defend and promote lower taxation for corporations or the very wealthy who run them. There is simply no moral ground on which to stand that I can see.


Wow! Unfortunately, the idiots here who think they know it all and don't even realize how they're being ripped off, and have been long before Obama - those idiots won't bother to glance at what you've provided, let alone read it. After all, don't they have an equal chance with hedge-fund managers to "earn" $2 million an hour?

To quote Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, they're doing "God's work." Phooey!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh come on......have a sense of humor.......It's really funny......And you know full well, that if you or one of your friends had said something like that, you'd all be rolling on the floor with laughter...This is the part about, if you're going to dish it out, you MUST be able to take it, or you don't belong here. Especially since you are quite the expert at dishing...There doesn't seem to be any rules on this particular forum that puts any subject off limits....and since this is a fictitious scenario, there's no harm in it.


I think there's been a removal of the humor gland.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's a wonderful story about you in 7th grade. In fact, the whole message is a good one. You needn't wonder about whether the Church has changed its stand on choosing a fetus over a mother; there have been several recent incidents, in Ireland, I think, when women have been allowed to die rather than abort a fetus.
> 
> But what you took right from my head was the following:
> 
> "Given the fact that people who are "believers" have to engage in quite a bit of twisted, absolutely tortured logic to believe some of the things they do, it's no wonder that they are so prone to believe the lies fed to them constantly by conservative politicians. They've been "trained" to accept authoritarians' pronouncements, without critical thinking." Except you said it better than I would have (not a complete sentence - don't report me to the grammar gestapo).


I agree Purl. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes perfect sense. They do as they are told and believe what they are told to believe. Neither one of my parents were political and to be honest, I don't think either one of them ever voted. We were also not a church going family, but I got an education from the way they lived their lives and how they treated other people. I came to my way of thinking by listening and observing them. Weather I attended church when I got older was to be my choice and I did choose that when I had children and have voted since I was old enough. 
What is the most upsetting about the RW is their proselytizing and then turning around and saying the most horrible things to someone else. Then they get back on track and tell each other how wonderful they are and then turn around and spew some more horrible stuff. They profess to be wonderful Christians, like our congress men/women and then cut food stamps for the needy. Makes no sense. 
There is now another republican, running for congress from Georgia who says the poor kids should be sweeping the floors in order to get their free lunches, and I'll bet he believes, he is a Christian.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't think the Libs know anything about Luke 12:48, and I do think they wouldn't take it to heart if they did.


You don't really mean "the Libs," do you. Most of them were raised as Christians and probably can quote you under the table. I think you mean "the Jews," but we're as capable of looking this up as you are.

1) Why would I take to heart something from a book that I see as fiction, any more than I take to heart "One ring to rule them all . . ."?

2) If you have a point, it's not clear. Are you implying that the very rich will be expected to do more in the afterlife? Because they sure don't expect it here and now. Or was there another point you're struggling to make?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> If your rich friends feel they do not pay enough, tell them to write out a check to the "United States Treasury" and mail it to the IRS. I'm sure Obama would like to spend it.
> 
> FYI: I am part of the bottom 50%, just smart enough to KNOW how to use the money I EARNED wisely.
> 
> ...


Isn't she fun? How difficult is it to fill out a tax return when you don't have much to report in income or deductions? When you don't earn much, own much or give away much, doing your tax return doesn't require much either.

I work on one tax return for two months every year since so much is earned and so much is given away. She wouldn't know anything about that but she'd tell me how not enough was given away, I'm sure.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Nussa wrote:
Oh, but of course KPG is omnipotent, and knows all......she labels everyone by her standards. And her standards really suck.
KPG, I think you need to go join a club for the self centered. Boy that would be something to see. All those self centered people in one room trying to get all the others to do things their way......they'd end up killing each other.....lol. Because you know......there can only be one God......And KPG has already tried to claim that spot....

soloweygirls post to me:
(This must be another example of you being polite and considerate. You did say it is the proper way to be. I can see the BS rising.)

I also said you get what you give. And if she can't take it, she should leave. From what I've seen of her posts here, she has no rules as to who, or how she tries to get her way.
And this is what you choose to defend, and I when I speak my mind, am condemned. You can't have it both ways. 

soloweygirl
Your commented on my religious post to KPG......So don't say you haven't been involved in a religious post. Your defense of KPG's posts put you right in the middle. And if you were following the posts, you would know what KPG has posted, is what earned her this response. I guess you are just guilty by association, as you seem to be defending her religious beliefs. Maybe you need to get all that BS out of your eyes, so you can see what's really going on.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Our soap addiction was to "As the World Turns". I still miss it.ops:


Makes me laugh to remember that. I never had a soap addiction, but my Mother did. If I called, she always said right away, "I'm watching my stories," so in other words, can you call back. I know "As the World Turns" was one of her favorites.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is because they do very little labor from which to have income.
> The rest of their living is paid by the taxpayers. i.e., Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, energy assistance, and SSI.


But they would do more labor if it were available and paid a living wage.

What do you have against the poor? Is it just your holier-than-thou attitude, or do you really believe they've taken more from you than hedge-fund managers and CEO's?

Or do you simply see yourself as better than them and therefore entitled to spit on them?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She posts these kinds of things, because the meaning is so vague that she can make it mean anything she likes.


Poor Purl said:


> You don't really mean "the Libs," do you. Most of them were raised as Christians and probably can quote you under the table. I think you mean "the Jews," but we're as capable of looking this up as you are.
> 
> 1) Why would I take to heart something from a book that I see as fiction, any more than I take to heart "One ring to rule them all . . ."?
> 
> 2) If you have a point, it's not clear. Are you implying that the very rich will be expected to do more in the afterlife? Because they sure don't expect it here and now. Or was there another point you're struggling to make?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Even Barbara Walters admitted they thought Obama was the Messiah.


What do you mean by "*Even* Barbara Walters"? Is she some spokesperson or some lefty leader, or is she simply a TV personality who's outlived her talent?

BTW, are you familiar with Luke 12:48? And do you take it to heart?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She told me that at the age of 40 she owned her own home, and they do a lot of traveling. So my take on that, is she's one of the rich who doesn't want to loose a dime of it to taxes. And that the middle class and the rest of us should be paying taxes for all of them.


Poor Purl said:


> But they would do more labor if it were available and paid a living wage.
> 
> What do you have against the poor? Is it just your holier-than-thou attitude, or do you really believe they've taken more from you than hedge-fund managers and CEO's?
> 
> Or do you simply see yourself as better than them and therefore entitled to spit on them?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There are no tax loopholes for rich individuals. They really pay much more than their fair share. If you really think there are please provide proof.
> 
> Obamacare is making those who make more than $200,000 (single); $250,000 (married) much more in taxes.


This is the same bullsh** you just went through at the end of the week. 
I provided information then. You are welcome to go back adn peruse that. 
BTW, when are you going to explain how you didn't know information that you couldn't find was made public in May?


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Interesting chart showing Citizens Trust in our Government.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Do you know of a site where I can find that particular incident? TY.


She was on CNN talking with Piers Morgan when she made the comment. Their website should have it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Young people are figuring it out on their own. They can't afford the ACA's health insurance.


Okay. Then when they have an accident or come down with some serious illness, I hope you'll take on the expense rather than expect us taxpayers to do it.

Did you even bother to watch those short videos? They should give you some idea of what kind of people you support.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Morals don't get someone to Heaven. Forgiveness does. No one can get the 10 commandments. That is why Jesus had to come to die for us. I know you don't believe in Him. [/quot
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Interesting chart showing Citizens Trust in our Government.


How nice, Americans distrust Obama *more* than they did Clinton and Obama has nearly three more years in office to sink even lower. But what does it matter anyway?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Isn't she fun? How difficult is it to fill out a tax return when you don't have much to report in income or deductions? When you don't earn much, own much or give away much, doing your tax return doesn't require much either.
> 
> I work on one tax return for two months every year since so much is earned and so much is given away. She wouldn't know anything about that but she'd tell me how not enough was given away, I'm sure.


Why would you say those things, about anyone? If that's what you guess about me, then you don't even have enough carfare to get you near the right ballpark.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She posts these kinds of things, because the meaning is so vague that she can make it mean anything she likes.


I know. And then she says "That's not what I meant," or my favorite: "You don't know anything about me," as if how she speaks to people on line had nothing to do with her character.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She told me that at the age of 40 she owned her own home, and they do a lot of traveling. So my take on that, is she's one of the rich who doesn't want to loose a dime of it to taxes. And that the middle class and the rest of us should be paying taxes for all of them.


Or else she lived in an area where houses were cheap and/or mortgage rates were low, or mom and dad helped out. The traveling appears to be some kind of church work. I doubt that she's "rich" - just a middle-class wannabe.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Why would you say those things, about anyone? If that's what you guess about me, then you don't even have enough carfare to get you near the right ballpark.


What I know is that she resembles that old saying about 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag, what a ration of poop she tries to toss out there. 
Anyone of us who has any kind of complication in tax returns who is as valuable as she claims her assets to be, for that matter if not nearly that monied, has other people do the work after spending a few minutes each week organizing info.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Nussa wrote:
> Oh, but of course KPG is omnipotent, and knows all......she labels everyone by her standards. And her standards really suck.
> KPG, I think you need to go join a club for the self centered. Boy that would be something to see. All those self centered people in one room trying to get all the others to do things their way......they'd end up killing each other.....lol. Because you know......there can only be one God......And KPG has already tried to claim that spot....
> 
> ...


Again, what I posted had nothing do to with any religious argument currently going on in this thread. Stop making things up. It ONLY referred to your not so polite or considerate remarks. If you truly believe that being polite and considerate is the way to be then you can respond to KPG and everyone else in such a manner. That should be second nature to you, but it doesn't appear to be so. I have not defended KPG's religious posts, therefore I cannot be guilty by association. Your BS pond has overflowed its banks. This discussion is now closed.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She always says things like that, and then her friends have to come in to defend her. I would think the rest would hold more credibility in their statements, if they cut ties with her. But those seem to be her honest beliefs. She means them with all her heart and soul. But by golly, don't question her religion.......Or she will beat you down with her scepter......


Poor Purl said:


> Why would you say those things, about anyone? If that's what you guess about me, then you don't even have enough carfare to get you near the right ballpark.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why does Obama continue to hate our disabled veterans? Who was the Democrat that removed the sentence that would have exempted DV from benefit reductions? That sentence was there at the beginning of the week, and then poof it was gone from the bill.
> 
> Maybe if Obamacare and the website wasn't such a disaster, then the money spent trying to convince healthy young adults to enroll in Obamacare those cuts would not be necessary. But I guess that spending money creating commercials with young adults in jammies encouraging others to enroll, or ads getting bar tenders to talk about Obamacare while serving drinks.......... is more important to this administration.
> 
> But this is just the latest 'hat trick' for the administration. NSA blasted, a judge rules against Obama's governing by Secret Laws and now hurting DV. Okay Obamacultists, how do you justify this?


Why do you blame President Obama, who had nothing to do with the budget deal. It was Paul Ryan and Patty Murray who came to the budget deal. Also, why blame a democrat, just because you aren't smart enough to investigate it yourself. This is what I found that Ryan said.

For example, a 28-year-old staff sergeant (an E-6 rank) who is forced to retire after 10 years would see approximately $50,000 in lost compensation over the next 40 years.

Rep. Ryan told the Weekly Standard that the changes are appropriate because servicemen and women who retire in their 40s after serving for two decades are still young enough to maintain a job.

We give them a slightly smaller adjustment for inflation because theyre still in their working years and in most cases earning another paycheck, Ryan said.

Over the weekend, Ryan said it is possible to make changes to the military retiree provision, since it will not take effect immediately.

We delayed this provision so that it doesnt take effect until the year 2016, which gives Congress and the military community time to address the broader compensation issue, including this provision, if people believe theres a better way to solve this problem, he told the Weekly Standard.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D., Mich.) also has said he will review the cut to military pensions.

No need to get your undies in a bunch LTL. It is not done yet, but isn't it strange how the republicans are all bent out of shape over this, but not concerned about veterans, children and the elderly being affected by cuts to food stamps. Not concerned about the effect shutting down the government had on veterans and not concerned about the effect sequestration would have on veterans and everyone else in this country. There is my favorite word again. HYPOCRITES, that is what republicans are.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Or else she lived in an area where houses were cheap and/or mortgage rates were low, or mom and dad helped out. The traveling appears to be some kind of church work. I doubt that she's "rich" - just a middle-class wannabe.


She was probably one of those people who at about that time in life lost her parents and used that inheritance to either purchase or rehab her dwelling. 
Honestly, I know that she cannot be believed regardless of what she puts out there. 
At the time that she was on me about living in Lawrence, MA amongst the poor people (oh, horrors) she claimed first that she looked the region up, then some said something about her living in Middleton, MA and I went after her about being the "poor relation" amongst the rich folks in Boxford and Topsfield, so she claimed that she had bought a house in Boxford. Boxford is located about 5 miles from Lawrence. 
The stories don't gel. She is (oh what is that term?) a liar. 
She has put her lies right out there in black and white, she may have used red for part of it, it was around the time she discovered that feature. 
She will say anything. She is doggie dinner.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay. Then when they have an accident or come down with some serious illness, I hope you'll take on the expense rather than expect us taxpayers to do it.
> 
> Did you even bother to watch those short videos? They should give you some idea of what kind of people you support.


Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't referring to the people in those videos. I hear young people talking about Obamacare all the time. It's a hot topic of conversation around here. They are making their own decisions and will get health insurance that they can afford, pursue other options or possible do nothing.

I am also a taxpayer so come down from your soapbox.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

If you were to check, you will find I have attempted to be nice to many of those who seem to hate the fact that I support President Obama. And you know what they told me? That I was crazy because I use medication to control my depression, and should be put away. It was truly a nasty post. So you see, I HAVE tried. And I got a royal beat down for my effort. I am always ready to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but after you've tried to use a medical condition I have to try to show everyone that I'm crazy, you aren't going to do it to me twice. And you can no longer expect for me to be considerate to you. And not once did this person apologize to me for that totally uncalled for remark. As a matter of fact, she continued for some time to use it against me. I'm sure you can guess who it was, as she's forever making degrading remarks to people. 
As for the religious post you didn't make. I'm referring to the fact that you will defend your friends rights to post their religious posts, but will back them up when they try to deny or bad mouth our religious posts, because they believe it's quite obviously wrong, as it isn't their religious belief. If you back them up, you are perceived to be supporting their ideas. There are some posts I don't participate in, as I don't have any beneficial knowledge on the subject, so I will not back a poster if I don't participate.


soloweygirl said:


> Again, what I posted had nothing do to with any religious argument currently going on in this thread. Stop making things up. It ONLY referred to your not so polite or considerate remarks. If you truly believe that being polite and considerate is the way to be then you can respond to KPG and everyone else in such a manner. That should be second nature to you, but it doesn't appear to be so. I have not defended KPG's religious posts, therefore I cannot be guilty by association. Your BS pond has overflowed its banks. This discussion is now closed.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is sick!


No, my remarks about KPG and a stew pot are silly.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't referring to the people in those videos. I hear young people talking about Obamacare all the time. It's a hot topic of conversation around here. They are making their own decisions and will get health insurance that they can afford, pursue other options or possible do nothing.
> 
> I am also a taxpayer so come down from your soapbox.


Why do I think that if you are spending all of your time around young people who can't afford to buy health insurance that you don't pay any taxes?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is wrong with you? Are you a cannibal?


Oh, CB, when someone imagines a completely impossible fantasy, they're just being silly. I made up a little fantasy to amuse the folks here I knew would be amused, and they have been amused and had a chance to laugh a little.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> What I know is that she resembles that old saying about 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag, what a ration of poop she tries to toss out there.
> Anyone of us who has any kind of complication in tax returns who is as valuable as she claims her assets to be, for that matter if not nearly that monied, has other people do the work after spending a few minutes each week organizing info.


Actually, I don't, but I keep the TurboTax support desk really busy.

As for that old saying, I've never heard it but I think I'll never forget it now.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Capital gains rate is now 20% for high income individuals. And the rate for earned income tax increases as the amount of earned income increases.
> 
> More tax breaks are available for middle income people than for the wealthy. They are either phased out or limited once you reach a certain amount.
> 
> ...


We don't have anything against the rich. That is always the common complaint from the right. Get over it.

I believe I posted some loopholes for you a few pages back. Not going to do it again. The chart below is why the top 1% should pay more.

About 6 in 10 of us believe that the tax system is unfair  and theyre right: put simply, the very rich dont pay their fair share. The richest 400 individual taxpayers, with an average income of more than $200 million, pay less than 20 percent of their income in taxes  far lower than mere millionaires, who pay about 25 percent of their income in taxes, and about the same as those earning a mere $200,000 to $500,000. And in 2009, 116 of the top 400 earners  almost a third  paid less than 15 percent of their income in taxes.

Conservatives like to point out that the richest Americans tax payments make up a large portion of total receipts. This is true, as well it should be in any tax system that is progressive  that is, a system that taxes the affluent at higher rates than those of modest means. Its also true that as the wealthiest Americans incomes have skyrocketed in recent years, their total tax payments have grown. This would be so even if we had a single flat income-tax rate across the board.

What should shock and outrage us is that as the top 1 percent has grown extremely rich, the effective tax rates they pay have markedly decreased. Our tax system is much less progressive than it was for much of the 20th century. The top marginal income tax rate peaked at 94 percent during World War II and remained at 70 percent through the 1960s and 1970s; it is now 39.6 percent. Tax fairness has gotten much worse in the 30 years since the Reagan revolution of the 1980s.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Actually, I don't, but I keep the TurboTax support desk really busy.
> 
> As for that old saying, I've never heard it but I think I'll never forget it now.


I have no doubt that I am not worth anywhere close to what she is, if having money is what causes talking the way she does, I don't want any.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Then you need to go back over the posts.....It also seems you only have a two or three sentence vocabulary, as you repeat the same thing over and over, so I won't ask you to try to understand anymore...And as it seems you have had your fill of BS.....and believe me, you are full of it. I have the good sense to stop beating this particular dead horse. See you around...... :?:


soloweygirl said:


> Again, what I posted had nothing do to with any religious argument currently going on in this thread. Stop making things up. It ONLY referred to your not so polite or considerate remarks. If you truly believe that being polite and considerate is the way to be then you can respond to KPG and everyone else in such a manner. That should be second nature to you, but it doesn't appear to be so. I have not defended KPG's religious posts, therefore I cannot be guilty by association. Your BS pond has overflowed its banks. This discussion is now closed.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is because they do very little labor from which to have income.
> The rest of their living is paid by the taxpayers. i.e., Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, energy assistance, and SSI.


What goes around comes around Joey. Some day you will pay for all the disgusting things you say. You have no idea how the real world lives and how hard people work. Just where did you get that superior attitude you have? It proves you are not a Christian, cause no true Christian would talk that way. You are disgusting.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> They should figure it out, because they are not invincible. One auto accident could cost "us" lots of money. Telling them not to buy insurance is a disservice to them an to the rest of us.


That just shows that empathy thing again. The republicans don't have it for their fellow Americans. It is the republican party and their wishes first, and the American people last.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And if that young person has Obamacare with a $5,000 deductible and has to go to the emergency room; they have to pay the first $5,000 before the insurance covers anything. How many have that kind of money?


Then they can make payments on it. That would be a lot better than owing 50,000 or more because of a car accident. What a stupid thing to say. Do you think because of the 5000, they just as well have nothing? You make no sense.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How nice, Americans distrust Obama *more* than they did Clinton and Obama has nearly three more years in office to sink even lower. But what does it matter anyway?


And never before has the party not in office spent so much money and time trying to disgrace and ruin the president in office. Something to be ashamed about, I think.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

READ THIS!!!


Wonder Land 

Henninger: Obama's Prozac Presidency

For Obama, 21st-century Americans live with a wolf at every door

By Daniel Henninger 

Dec. 18, 2013 6:51 p.m. ET

The talkative Mr. Obama has made this a presidency of speeches, and at times even the most committed political mind can lose focus amid the now-familiar tone. So attention must be paid when the president reveals something out of the ordinary. That would be his recent speech in Washington on income inequality. 

Income inequalitywhat it is exactly, its causes and curesis a worthy subject. But burdened by ObamaCare, Democrats running in next year's midterm elections can be expected to just chant the two words, with the substance left to the wonkosphere. 

The president's thoughts on income inequality deserve comment for a reason other than the substance of the issue itself. The speech said a lot, a whole lot, about Mr. Obama's idea of America itself.

The speech, by my reading, was an odd wallow in presidential pessimism. Mr. Obama believes that the deck in America has been irredeemably stacked against individuals. Those are his words: "It's rooted in the nagging sense that no matter how hard they work, the deck is stacked against them." Before America can move forward, Mr. Obama thinks its people must be reeducated to believe they inhabit a country that is fallen and unfair. 

Below is an excerpted version. Those who suspect distortion can read the 7,000-word original.

He wonders "whether or not our children will grow up in an America where opportunity is real." Life wasn't too bad after World War II, but "even in those years . . . the top 10% consistently took home about one-third of our national income." Even the Greatest Generation violated economic justice. 

Mr. Obama admires the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, "when millions died without health insurance." But the postwar American achievement ended about then. "Starting in the late '70s, this social compact began to unravel." That, of course, means not only that the high-growth years of the Reagan presidency commenced the downward spiral but that the disintegration continued even during the Clinton presidency, which traditional Democrats once claimed as a plus. 

"Investments in things that make us all richer, like schools and infrastructure, were allowed to wither." "We took on more debt financed by a juiced-up housing market. But when the music stopped, and the crisis hit, millions of families were stripped of whatever cushion they had left."

The U.S. economy is "profoundly unequal" and has been "since 1979, when I graduated from high school." 

"The idea that a child may never be able to escape that poverty because she lacks a decent education or health care or a community that views her future as their own, that should offend all of us." A data point: According to the U.S. Census Bureau, spending per student in all U.S. public and elementary schools since 1992 has doubled to more than $10,000. The schools have her trapped for other reasons.

He notes the trend toward inequality is global, but it "is most pronounced in our own country." 

"A child born in the top 20% has about a 2-in-3 chance of staying at or near the top. A child born into the bottom 20% has a less than 1-in-20 shot at making it to the top." 

How bad is it in the U.S. today? You can't begin to guess. "Statistics show that our levels of income inequality rank near countries like Jamaica and Argentina." 

And it's getting worse! A new study shows "disparities in education, mental health, obesity, absent fathers, isolation from church, isolation from community groups." 

For Barack Obama, 21st-century Americans live with a wolf at every door: "One study shows that more than half of Americans will experience poverty at some point during their adult lives. Think about that." 

But what's he done about it? He cites ObamaCare, which he says is "built on market-based ideas of choice and competition in the private sector." 

An unavoidable thought on all this: The president of the U.S. for nearly five years has been Barack Obama. The current down-in-the-dumps mood about the future showing up in opinion polls reflects his economy, not what someone else did 40 years ago. 

The inequality speech reflects Mr. Obama's habit of burying everyone in listening distance beneath some vast, vague and unanswerable guilt. Yes, it's done out of political calculation and to distract from ObamaCare. But it's also belief. This president has a dark, reductionist view of the U.S. system in place for nearly 200 years before he graduated high school in 1979.

Nor did it all come to him in a dream. The many "studies" the speech cites have been outputted by a generation of academia's army of left-wing sociologists, economists and law students. If you want to learn why America the beautiful is really America as hell, drop by a college classroom. 

The Democrats used to lobby to hand out condoms on every corner, a more innocent time. After eight years of this presidency, the downer Democrats may need to upgrade their freebies to street-corner Prozac.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts wrote:
Isn't she fun? How difficult is it to fill out a tax return when you don't have much to report in income or deductions? When you don't earn much, own much or give away much, doing your tax return doesn't require much either.

I work on one tax return for two months every year since so much is earned and so much is given away. She wouldn't know anything about that but she'd tell me how not enough was given away, I'm sure.




You know KPG we don't believe most of what you post, so you just as well stop bragging about yourself. It just shows how insecure you are, while trying to make us believe you are something you aren't. Get over yourself. Your fellow repubs might be impressed, but the rest of us are not.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

More re how well the wealthy are doing -- Obama's not a very GOOD socialist if he is one!



> The largesse of the Federal Reserve over the past five years has amounted to one of the largest ever subsidies to the American wealthyfueling record fortunes, record numbers of new millionaires and billionaires, and an unprecedented shopping spree for everything from Ferraris to Francis Bacon paintings. The prices of the assets owned by the wealthy, and the things they buy, have gone parabolic, bearing little relationship to the weak, broader economy.
> 
> Yes, the Fed has helped the overall economy as well, especially through gains in home prices. But on this deciding day for the Fed's quantitative easing program, it's strikingly clear that most of the gains from the program have flowed to the top 1 percent.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> What I know is that she resembles that old saying about 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag, what a ration of poop she tries to toss out there.
> Anyone of us who has any kind of complication in tax returns who is as valuable as she claims her assets to be, for that matter if not nearly that monied, has other people do the work after spending a few minutes each week organizing info.


Hey idiot! Show me exactly where I claimed the value of my assets? Oh, and another thing, I do my own tax return regardless of my net worth. Got a problem with that; talk to someone other than me who cares.

Rhetorical question = do not answer. I already know you are lying and I have not.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Morals don't get someone to Heaven. Forgiveness does. No one can get the 10 commandments. That is why Jesus had to come to die for us. I know you don't believe in Him.


Who said?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You would think they would be smart enough to know we were talking metaphorically. We weren't talking about people in the pot.....we talking about all the rubbish from their mouths in the stew pot. At least that's how I took it. Why is it you all took it so seriously? Are you so imbedded in this who's religion is right thing that you can no longer tell the truth from a joke? I thought is was FUNNY...LOL......now the religious Republicans are trying to censer humor...what next????


MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, CB, when someone imagines a completely impossible fantasy, they're just being silly. I made up a little fantasy to amuse the folks here I knew would be amused, and they have been amused and had a chance to laugh a little.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And if that young person has Obamacare with a $5,000 deductible and has to go to the emergency room; they have to pay the first $5,000 before the insurance covers anything. How many have that kind of money?


How many have $200,000?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh my.......KPG.....I just got told off by your friend because she said I wasn't being compassionate.....Where is your compassion? You just called someone an idiot....Is that kind of talk going to get you into Heaven? You really must practice what you preach....Tisk-tisk.....Do you get down on your knees every night before bed and beg for forgiveness after the nasty things you post? Or don't you have to because you are right and we are wrong???? :?:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey idiot! Show me exactly where I claimed the value of my assets? Oh, and another thing, I do my own tax return regardless of my net worth. Got a problem with that; talk to someone other than me who cares.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> She was probably one of those people who at about that time in life lost her parents and used that inheritance to either purchase or rehab her dwelling.
> Honestly, I know that she cannot be believed regardless of what she puts out there.
> At the time that she was on me about living in Lawrence, MA amongst the poor people (oh, horrors) she claimed first that she looked the region up, then some said something about her living in Middleton, MA and I went after her about being the "poor relation" amongst the rich folks in Boxford and Topsfield, so she claimed that she had bought a house in Boxford. Boxford is located about 5 miles from Lawrence.
> The stories don't gel. She is (oh what is that term?) a liar.
> ...


Boy are you stupid. Poor Purl was referring to Joeysomma. Joeysomma is the person who bought a home at the age of 40 and part of her traveling is in the missionary field (her statements).

So, of course, you slam me again, when you claim you ignore me. Now you are lying through your teeth as you regularly do about me. I stopped responding to you back in Nov because you acted like the spoiled moron you are acting like now. You must still be beside yourself for not being able to dig your claws into me and make them stick.

I posted prior I bought my first new house at 26. My PARENTS DID NOT PAY a DIME for any of the homes I've owned or own. Don't you dare ever speak of my parents again.

You'll say anything to belittle me and *never* get it correct.

I DO travel the world and pay for every single dime of those trips as well. Unlike, Joey, I've not traveled for missionary work nor much for business. When I speak of traveling, it is purely referencing travel for enjoyment and sightseeing, nothing more.

*One, big ole fat liar is the surely the most accurate way to describe poor you:*

Here's the exact posts of the conversation you are referring to since your memory doesn't serve you well either:

jelun2 wrote: Nov 18
It really isn't worth it. While tiresome to have the spaces filled up with her (KPG) posts that I just pass over, what she has to say means nothing. 
I don't want to know anything about her. I don't think about her, I don't want to talk to her.

knitpresentgifts wrote: Nov 18
Nope. I have no desire to even drive through or even idle at a stop light in the city where she resides. I've read about it and went through it a couple of time in my travels. The most corrupt Mayor probably ever to be 'elected' just got voted out recently. I cannot imagine thinking about buying a house in that locale ever; yet she did.

Lukelucy wrote: Nov 18
Where is this place? This gives me a better understanding of her mentality. Good grief.

Jelun2 wrote: Nov 18
It's separated by one town from her hometown. ￼
Now that I think about it if she actually runs a business that is probably in Lawrence, cheap rents and labor. 
She would love it, she could hire people who would never understand the disrespect she was handing out by saying that they were not worth more than minimum wage.

KPG wrote: Nov 18
Lawrence, Massachusetts. She claims that it is in the Southeastern part of that state in her KP profile. Yet, I looked it up and it is a poor, highly populated and corrupt city with an extremely violent and high crime rate, and is located in the most eastern city in that part of the state (5 minutes) to the New Hampshire state line.

She doesn't speak the truth about her city of residence because she is embarrassed by it I suspect. I'd feel for her, but she doesn't deserve our sympathy because of how she treats us.

Several KP members discovered and showed me her profile on an on-line dating site. She cannot lie on that site since she'd have no suitors who could respond to her. On second thought ...

jelun2 wrote: Nov 18
You are not real good with dates, are you? That poor husband of yours... I bet he likes that site too. Highly populated? Only to someone from Middleton, the poor relation to those folks from Topsfield. Or is it Boxford that bothers you more? My cousin used to live in Boxford, he mentioned seeing those poor little Middleton kids, faces pressed up against the school bus windows... dreaming of being able to ride in his Astin Healey.

KPG wrote: Nov 18
They were correct! Someone informed me you wrote this post - and here it is. Let me correct your incorrect assessments in your complete obsession and interest in me:

1) My husband grew up poor but is no more. Unlike you, he never registered or had a profile on a dating website.
2) Lawrence is a highly populated city as you know since you reside there or at least stated you do.
Many years ago my husband and I did buy a house in the affluent town of Boxford. We never moved in since we decided that town was too sleepy and stuffy for our lifestyle. Those we know who also owned homes in Boxford and lived in them, also moved out within a year of purchasing their homes.

KPG wrote to NJG: 
What the heck is your problem? I JUST stated in the post prior a town where I had a home - that is a fact. The reputation of the city where Jelun lives is public and also factual. I speak the truth and it doesn't take guts, it takes moral character. When I used to read Jelun's posts she slammed me constantly and tried to belittle everything about me including where she thinks I live.

In so doing she only made herself to look the fool she is since I did own a house in the place where she bragged about as being an affluent place to live and where her 'cousin' did live while looking down his nose upon others. His and her attitudes are some of the reasons my family chose to not move in. Joke is on her, wouldn't you say? ￼

KPG wrote to NJG: Nov 19
You know that your bitterness is of your own choosing, correct? Jelun was the person, not I, to brag about a place in her stupid attempt to belittle me once again. I simply corrected her inaccurate statements about me and that same town. I was the person who volunteered that my family decided not to live in a place where people were so stuffy which is exactly how Jelun described her cousin and how you are defaming me now as your regularly do.

*So, Jelun, 
Get over yourself and never lie about me again.*

I'd post my P & S Agreement for the house I *bought in Boxford*, but you are not worth the time for me to scan it onto this site to prove you are a lying fool.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, they can do what most people do. You set up a pay schedule with the hospital and make monthly payments. Just like you do when you buy a house, or car, or anything else you buy that you can't pay outright for. Quite logical. How many people do you know who end up in the emergency room who won't end up owing thousands of dollars whether they have insurance or not.


joeysomma said:


> And if that young person has Obamacare with a $5,000 deductible and has to go to the emergency room; they have to pay the first $5,000 before the insurance covers anything. How many have that kind of money?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't referring to the people in those videos. I hear young people talking about Obamacare all the time. It's a hot topic of conversation around here. They are making their own decisions and will get health insurance that they can afford, pursue other options or possible do nothing.
> 
> I am also a taxpayer so come down from your soapbox.


She does it all the time to me (puts words into my mouth) and then she'll say I didn't mean what _she_ determined I meant to say. Why should you be treated any differently?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey idiot! Show me exactly where I claimed the value of my assets? Oh, and another thing, I do my own tax return regardless of my net worth. Got a problem with that; talk to someone other than me who cares.


That language...IDIOT, isn't that reserved for us Libs? You never use nasty language........ROFLMAO


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have no doubt that I am not worth anywhere close to what she is, if having money is what causes talking the way she does, I don't want any.


You got her really mad! On the one hand, she practically spits names at you; on the other, she's said more about herself than I've ever seen, which almost makes her seem human. Maybe if we keep getting her angry, she'll turn into a real person - unless she lies, like Pinocchio.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Oh, isn't this rich  um, probably should say poor: as I was just reading some of Jelun2's recent posts because I don't read her stupidity much any longer I came across this gem from about four days ago.

I really love this one she wrote about where she lives (talking about carolers within the neighborhood):



jelun2 said:


> Here, they would probably be shot and the gun man would claim SYG.


Must be such a treat living where she CHOSE to buy a home to reside in.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Don't put words into my mouth. I wasn't referring to the people in those videos. I hear young people talking about Obamacare all the time. It's a hot topic of conversation around here. They are making their own decisions and will get health insurance that they can afford, pursue other options or possible do nothing.
> 
> I am also a taxpayer so come down from your soapbox.


Sorry. Since you're so invested in getting rid of Obamacare, it's only reasonable to think you've got a better idea. Someone will have to pay for it. Okay, jumping off soapbox; you can have it now.

My reference to the videos was simply a "by the way," not having anything to do with the first paragraph. I thought you might enjoy them, seeing as how they're also anti-Obamacare. Aren't you the least bit curious?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She does it all the time to me (puts words into my mouth) and then she'll say I didn't mean what _she_ determined I meant to say. Why should you be treated any differently?


How would you know what I say? You can't distinguish between nouns and verbs, and apparently you're unfamiliar with the word "whom."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She does it all the time to me (puts words into my mouth) and then she'll say I didn't mean what _she_ determined I meant to say. Why should you be treated any differently?


And as for putting words "into" your mouth, yukk. Not one of your pleasanter body parts.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> Isn't she fun? How difficult is it to fill out a tax return when you don't have much to report in income or deductions? When you don't earn much, own much or give away much, doing your tax return doesn't require much either.
> 
> I work on one tax return for two months every year since so much is earned and so much is given away. She wouldn't know anything about that but she'd tell me how not enough was given away, I'm sure.
> ...


I am not so sure that claiming to spend 2 months on a tax return is bragging, I think it is an admission of failure and a cry for help. 
If someone is supposedly making, $20./hour and that person spends say 10 hours a week for two months doing a task? That is $1800. in wasted manhours and denying themselves a chance to deduct the tax prep. <smh>
Since she supposedly earns so much think of how much she is throwing away.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/barbara-walters-admits-we-thought-obama-was-next-m/


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I suggest she use H & R Block......


joeysomma said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. It proves she wants to know how the tax system works. Most people could care less and just complain and have no idea what they are complaining about. ( As many people on this thread have proved).
> 
> When you run a business, there are many papers to collect and organize. It is also good when the calculations have been done, to think about it awhile, maybe do some more research and recalculate before sending it in.
> 
> It is a very wise thing to do. I commend her for taking the time to be sure.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. It proves she wants to know how the tax system works. Most people could care less and just complain and have no idea what they are complaining about. ( As many people on this thread have proved).
> 
> When you run a business, there are many papers to collect and organize. It is also good when the calculations have been done, to think about it awhile, maybe do some more research and recalculate before sending it in.
> 
> It is a very wise thing to do. I commend her for taking the time to be sure.


Thank you Joey for your compliment. It behooves anyone to understand the proper way to complete your own return.

Ha, Ha, Ha, He, He, He, Ho, Ho, Ho! I _never_ said the tax return I worked on for two months each year was my own! That's just Jelun putting words in my mouth and trying to act like she knows what she is even talking about. She is _obsessed_ with me.

I do have my own businesses and do complete the tax returns on them myself.

Also, I didn't say I make $20/hr or hint at my earning rate; just another ignorant assumption the idiot used to calculate a bogus equation and apply it to me as a hypothetical.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It's not nice to make fun of Joey that way.....She just made a mistake that's all.... :thumbdown:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Ha, Ha, Ha, He, He, He, Ho, Ho, Ho! I _never_ said the tax return I worked on for two months each year was my own! That's just the Lib putting words in my mouth and trying to act like she knows what she is even talking about. She is _obsessed_ with me.
> 
> I do have my own businesses and do my own tax returns on them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/barbara-walters-admits-we-thought-obama-was-next-m/


Oh, goody, the Moonie paper telling us what some tv person thinks. Should we all take this seriously, or are you the only one?


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Knitry said:


> More re how well the wealthy are doing -- Obama's not a very GOOD socialist if he is one!


I agree with 95% of the article. The other 5% doesn't matter. I believe the Federal Reserve has and continues to hurt all Americans in a way that will linger for many many years. We have forgotten to live with-in our means and many know at some point we will have to "pay the piper."
Rich , poor and middle class will feel this as well as generations. Feel Good monies has been printed to prop our economy up. We are living a dream not reality. Federal Reserve is neither Federal or Reserved. It is another corrupt entity. Thanks for the post Knitry


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I suggest she use H & R Block......


LOL, she is afraid Joey will be doing her taxes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I agree with 95% of the article. The other 5% doesn't matter. I believe the Federal Reserve has and continues to hurt all Americans in a way that will linger for many many years. We have forgotten to live with-in our means and many know at some point we will have to "pay the piper."
> Rich , poor and middle class will feel this as well as generations. Feel Good monies has been printed to prop our economy up. We are living a dream not reality. Federal Reserve is neither Federal or Reserved. It is another corrupt entity. Thanks for the post Knitry


You're right about the Fed. It was a short-term solution, but it's created longer-term problems.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. It proves she wants to know how the tax system works. Most people could care less and just complain and have no idea what they are complaining about. ( As many people on this thread have proved).
> 
> When you run a business, there are many papers to collect and organize. It is also good when the calculations have been done, to think about it awhile, maybe do some more research and recalculate before sending it in.
> 
> It is a very wise thing to do. I commend her for taking the time to be sure.


I haven't noticed many people on this thread complaining about taxes, except the Repugs, who'd prefer not to pay any (but still want to use the roads and have the military to protect them).

I do agree with you about doing one's own taxes. I learn something new every year. But I don't find numbers frightening; there are people who do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't noticed many people on this thread complaining about taxes, except the Repugs, who'd prefer not to pay any (but still want to use the roads and have the military to protect them).
> 
> I do agree with you about doing one's own taxes. I learn something new every year. But I don't find numbers frightening; there are people who do.


I have done my own taxes most years as well. The only time I pay someone else is when there is something complicated and new. 
I am not pretending to be making money hand over fist or getting lots and lots of deductions. 
I wish I could deduct that bag of groceries I left at the cash register.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I agree with 95% of the article. The other 5% doesn't matter. I believe the Federal Reserve has and continues to hurt all Americans in a way that will linger for many many years. We have forgotten to live with-in our means and many know at some point we will have to "pay the piper."
> Rich , poor and middle class will feel this as well as generations. Feel Good monies has been printed to prop our economy up. We are living a dream not reality. Federal Reserve is neither Federal or Reserved. It is another corrupt entity. Thanks for the post Knitry


The Federal Reserve has been around for a long time--a hundred years, to be exact. What sort of institution or system would you like to see in its place?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/barbara-walters-admits-we-thought-obama-was-next-m/


Who was the "We" she mentioned? I never considered him the Messiah. Could she have been using exaggeration to make a point?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is nothing wrong with that. It proves she wants to know how the tax system works. Most people could care less and just complain and have no idea what they are complaining about. ( As many people on this thread have proved).
> 
> When you run a business, there are many papers to collect and organize. It is also good when the calculations have been done, to think about it awhile, maybe do some more research and recalculate before sending it in.
> 
> It is a very wise thing to do. I commend her for taking the time to be sure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have done my own taxes most years as well. The only time I pay someone else is when there is something complicated and new.
> I am not pretending to be making money hand over fist or getting lots and lots of deductions.
> I wish I could deduct that bag of groceries I left at the cash register.


Can't you deduct it? it's certainly a loss.

Some people need to think they have more (than what? who knows?) in order to feel good about themselves. So they inflate what they have and deflate what others have. It rarely works, because they can't fool themselves.

Others don't think all that is necessary. It's enough to be who you are. And I do mean *you*. Who cares what neighborhood you live in. I'm proud of the fact that I lived in public housing until I was 16. I had very interesting friends there, even though it was a bad neighborhood. It was clean, and my parents could afford it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Who was the "We" she mentioned? I never considered him the Messiah. Could she have been using exaggeration to make a point?


Hmm, could she? Nobody would do that! And if they did, who would believe them? Apparently LOL does, but who else?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow -- I thought this was really heartwarming and wanted to share. One of the very, very REAL stories about how Obamacare is helping people.

Oh -- and maybe some of our conservatively oriented posters could help me out with something. I've looked this over and am having a difficult time figuring out the bad life decisiions that were made by this family. Can you enlighten me??



> Obamacare is DA BOMB! I Am On Cloud Nine!
> I just got my mail delivery. Included was our family's approvals (as individuals) qualifying us for the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid (MSI - or MediCal here in CA) effective January 1, 2014.
> 
> What does that mean? It means that our family has health insurance under Medi-Cal, with the following costs:
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Wow -- I thought this was really heartwarming and wanted to share. One of the very, very REAL stories about how Obamacare is helping people.
> 
> Oh -- and maybe some of our conservatively oriented posters could help me out with something. I've looked this over and am having a difficult time figuring out the bad life decisiions that were made by this family. Can you enlighten me??


Why is he out of work? Doesn't Walmart need greeters? Are there no poorhouses?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Wow -- I thought this was really heartwarming and wanted to share. One of the very, very REAL stories about how Obamacare is helping people.
> 
> Oh -- and maybe some of our conservatively oriented posters could help me out with something. I've looked this over and am having a difficult time figuring out the bad life decisiions that were made by this family. Can you enlighten me??


It's obvious, isn't it? He didn't dump his cancer-stricken wife (like good ol' Newt).


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/barbara-walters-admits-we-thought-obama-was-next-m/


Thanks for posting that.

I haven't been very interested in this conversation, but seeing the article makes me ask: You DO understand the concept of metaphor and hyperbole, don't you? The difference between figurative and literal?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Post needed to be erased and rewritten.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> good morning Lakes, have a good day


Great poster, Galinipper! :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

From some of the responses I've gotten to the "stew pot" metaphor I've learned there are some truly humorless people around here. It's both sad and scary. A sense of humor is required in order to survive and maybe even lead a good life. Several people around here don't seem to be able to identify a joke, let alone enjoy it.


Nussa said:


> You would think they would be smart enough to know we were talking metaphorically. We weren't talking about people in the pot.....we talking about all the rubbish from their mouths in the stew pot. At least that's how I took it. Why is it you all took it so seriously? Are you so imbedded in this who's religion is right thing that you can no longer tell the truth from a joke? I thought is was FUNNY...LOL......now the religious Republicans are trying to censer humor...what next????


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

KPG, obviously something traumatic happened to you long ago and turned you into a bitter, angry, self-righteous person who MUST always be right. There really is help you could get, and I am not saying this facetiously. Your Bible isn't working. God has left you to sort yourself out on your own. That happens sometimes. He's doing what He knows is best for you.

Find a good psychotherapist and get rid of wnatever your burden is. I'm sure many of us would think better of you if you acknowledged your own flaws instead of always being on the attack. This long, bitter screed is beneath you and everyone else here.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Boy are you stupid. Poor Purl was referring to Joeysomma. Joeysomma is the person who bought a home at the age of 40 and part of her traveling is in the missionary field (her statements).
> 
> So, of cour, se, you slam me again, when you claim you ignore me. Now you are lying through your teeth as you regularly do about me. I stopped responding to you back in Nov because you acted like the spoiled moron you are acting like now. You must still be beside yourself for not being able to dig your claws into me and make them stick.
> 
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The Federal Reserve has been around for a long time--a hundred years, to be exact. What sort of institution or system would you like to see in its place?


The Federal Reserve is a private bank. I think most people who are not crazy about that would prefer that the central bank for the U.S. be owned by the U.S. Govt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you claim to be a tax expert, but what would you call a lower rate (15%) for capital gains (mostly claimed by the rich) and a higher rate for earned income (what most people can claim). And if there are no loopholes, please explain how some corporations making billions in profit (GE, for example) get to pay 0 in taxes? Unless you're a tax attorney, you probably don't know all the loopholes.
> 
> And just what is their *fair* share? Under Eisenhower the top marginal rate was about 90%. Now it's 39.6%, for income between $400,000 and .... there's no top. Yet they're screaming for lower taxes.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> There is now another republican, running for congress from Georgia who says the poor kids should be sweeping the floors in order to get their free lunches, and I'll bet he believes, he is a Christian.


His name is Jack Kingston and he is a piece of work, I'll tell you. He is currently a Congressman (and has been for a number of years) but is now running for Senate since Sexby Chambliss has announced he's retiring after this term.

There are a couple of great Dems running for Senate as well, btw. One is Jimmy Carter's grandson (not the one who was responsible for getting Romney's "47%" comment published). Another is Sam Nunn's daughter. I was never a Sam Nunn fan -- and in fact am not the fan of ANY "conservative" Democrat. But his daughter may be a little better. She headed up a non-profit that was quite popular and did quite a lot of good, so she is well thought of and she knows everyone.

But back to Kingston. What he said today was that - well, here:



> "But one of the things Im talking to the Secretary of Agriculture about: why dont you have the kids pay a dime, pay a nickle, to instill in them that there is, in fact, no such thing as a free lunch. Or maybe sweep the floor in the cafeteria. And yes, I understand that that would be an administrative problem and I understand that it would probably lose you money  but think what wed gain as a society in getting the myth out of their head that there is such thing as a free lunch."


How massively, unforgivably arrogant to imagine, let alone state it aloud, that poor children need to be disabused of the idea there really are free lunches. THEY ARE CHILDREN, for starters. Children shouldn't have to be worried about how things like their food are paid for, or paying their own way. And there is no proof whatsoever that POOR children -- or the poor of any other ages -- need lessons or lectures or practice on not expecting to get a free lunch anywhere.

I'm frankly livid on behalf of said poor.

The article goes on:



> Hunger among American children remains a huge problem: *three-quarters of U.S. teachers say they have students who routinely show up to school hungry. Studies have shown that providing breakfast in schools improved student attentiveness, attendance, and test scores  though only half of the students eligible for free breakfast are receiving them.*
> 
> ... Kingstons plan would potentially discourage participation in the program  some kids do not have the five to ten cents for their meals and singling them out as janitors would broadcast to other students which families are the poorest. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, 18.9 million students receive free lunches and another 2.6 million receive reduced fee lunches. Last year, Kingston voted for a bill that would have kicked 280,000 low-income out of the program.
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/education/2013/12/19/3085271/jack-kingston-free-lunch/#


Kingston's idea would make them targets for bullies.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It can be deducted If it is a casualty loss. Use form 4684.
> 
> Start with the value of your loss; subtract any insurance reimbursement; subtract $100; Subtract 10% of your AGI; Then carry the balance to line 20 of Schedule A; then complete the remainder of your taxes.
> 
> Very simplified version.


I assume you gave us this as a joke (though I have no doubt it's accurate), because the question was a joke.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> The Federal Reserve is a private bank. I think most people who are not crazy about that would prefer that the central bank for the U.S. be owned by the U.S. Govt.


You mean rather than by banks (run by bankers)? Yeah, I'd vote for that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent information. I agree completely. There is no moral or practical basis for the tax breaks the tax code provided to corporations and to the most wealthy. The remaining taxpayers provide this perverse charity through our lawmakers who are bought and paid for by corporations and the most wealthy. Conflict of interest on a good day, I'd say.



Knitry said:


> I have to say, I really challenge ANYone to read these excerpts and still feel there is ANY moral ground on which to continue to defend and promote lower taxation for corporations or the very wealthy who run them. There is simply no moral ground on which to stand that I can see.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Obama doesn't hate veterans -- you're thinking of the Republicans. They refused to support a jobs bill for veterans. They're the ones who want to cut food stamps which, sadly, puts food in the mouth of a LOT of veterans. I'd say the hate you perceive is Republican in nature.
> 
> Oh, man, I wouldn't even mention ads in the context of Obamacare given the ads the Republicans put out to try to scare the young from enrolling -- they were not just grotesque, but truly sick. Purl already posted the links:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your bias is obvious. Please stop proving it repeatedly. At this point, we know what you think.

UNCLE!



joeysomma said:


> That is because they do very little labor from which to have income.
> The rest of their living is paid by the taxpayers. i.e., Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, energy assistance, and SSI.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You do not earn consideration.



soloweygirl said:


> Is harassing me being polite and considerate? I think not. FYI it is difficult to respond to a post when one is not on line or using a computer.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Here is another example of you being polite and considerate. The BS meter is still on the rise.


Then wallow in it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> His name is Jack Kingston and he is a piece of work, I'll tell you. He is currently a Congressman (and has been for a number of years) but is now running for Senate since Sexby Chambliss has announced he's retiring after this term.


Kingston sounds kind of like Newt Gingrich, but maybe worse. What do they put in the water in Georgia?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I completely disagree, CB. A fervent belief in God didn't stop the stop the leaders of the Inquisition, the judges in the Salem witch trials, or the Southern lynch mobs--in fact, it only fueled their murderous fury. Religion is only good for good people (to quote Mary McCarthy).


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The only thing I can think of that might cause some empathy and compassion to come from the Non-1% GOP is when they lose THEIR jobs, savings and facade of hope that they will join the 1% on the throne.



Knitry said:


> You couldn't be more wrong as in actualitythe figures themselves prove, but I'm sure it's comforting to continue to think so, isn't it? OTHERWISE, you might have to believe that the poor are NOT all poor due to "bad life choices." You might have to recognize your many gifts and privileges and realize not everyone has been similarly blessed or had it as easy or, having faced difficulties perhaps had the same wherewithall and talents and lucky breaks to climb out.
> 
> You might also have to realize that the economic times we are in are quite, quite different from the past that most of us remember. We are, in reality, in a new Depression, and only the wealthy are benefiting much from any improvements in the economy -- and that is amply shown in the stats as well. We now have 80% of Americans at or near the poverty line, and our "poverty line" describes a pretty dismal existence.
> 
> You might, in other words, be required to develop a little compassion, understanding and generosity of spirit in order to continue to live with yourself and look in the mirror. And you might be forced to face the need to let go of your judgmentalism which keeps you looking down your nose at the poor and less well off and thus feeling oh, so much better about yourself. You might even have to admit you and your overlords pay too little in taxes and should pay more.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Believe me, about 10 people, me included have said that about her.....practically word for word......it didn't do any good.....she's hopeless.


MaidInBedlam said:


> KPG, obviously something traumatic happened to you long ago and turned you into a bitter, angry, self-righteous person who MUST always be right. There really is help you could get, and I am not saying this facetiously. Your Bible isn't working. God has left you to sort yourself out on your own. That happens sometimes. He's doing what He knows is best for you.
> 
> Find a good psychotherapist and get rid of wnatever your burden is. I'm sure many of us would think better of you if you acknowledged your own flaws instead of always being on the attack. This long, bitter screed is beneath you and everyone else here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, and Southern Lynch Mobs all had a basis of religion. Do you think they were all righteous? An answer, please.



Country Bumpkins said:


> What are you talking about? Of course you disagree.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your constant talk of spiritual belief causes us to disbelieve your belief in anything that is not convenient.



Country Bumpkins said:


> No she hasn't said a word about about anyone's spirtual belief. Never.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It may be envy, or it may not. I have nothing against the rich; in fact, I have some very wealthy friends, but even they admit that they don't think they're paying their share, since they've managed to make so much in this country.
> 
> The truth is, the rich don't need defending - by you, by me, or by Congress. They will continue being rich enough to have however many homes they need, to travel as often as they'd like, to have full-time servants, even if they have to pay more. But to take food out of the mouths of children in order to keep taxes as they are is offensive.
> 
> Either you're one of the 1% or you're too - um - not bright enough to realize you're being taken advantage of, too. When Scott Walker decides to drop teachers' pensions, you may notice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Barbara Walters is part of the media. Try again. Your answers are always a hoot.



soloweygirl said:


> You'll have to ask Barbara Walters that, it is her comment. IMO she is referring to the media, Democrats and all the "handlers" that chose Obama.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> They should figure it out, because they are not invincible. One auto accident could cost "us" lots of money. Telling them not to buy insurance is a disservice to them an to the rest of us.


Just another group for the GOP to throw under the bus.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> KPG, obviously something traumatic happened to you long ago and turned you into a bitter, angry, self-righteous person who MUST always be right. There really is help you could get, and I am not saying this facetiously. Your Bible isn't working. God has left you to sort yourself out on your own. That happens sometimes. He's doing what He knows is best for you.
> 
> Find a good psychotherapist and get rid of wnatever your burden is. I'm sure many of us would think better of you if you acknowledged your own flaws instead of always being on the attack. This long, bitter screed is beneath you and everyone else here.


If it were worth the time, a pseudo diagnosis on the need to do all that editing and posting could be interesting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My guess is that you will never get an answer to that because it is just another talking point derived from someone's imagination.

Start counting.



Nussa said:


> Do you know of a site where I can find that particular incident? TY.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is sick!


Extremely.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Context is everything.



rocky1991 said:


> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/17/barbara_walters_on_obama_we_thought_he_was_going_to_be_the_next_messiah.html


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think soloweygirl needs to explain her use of the word "Handlers" that chose Obama.


damemary said:


> Barbara Walters is part of the media. Try again. Your answers are always a hoot.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Keep on believing.



joeysomma said:


> If your rich friends feel they do not pay enough, tell them to write out a check to the "United States Treasury" and mail it to the IRS. I'm sure Obama would like to spend it.
> 
> FYI: I am part of the bottom 50%, just smart enough to KNOW how to use the money I EARNED wisely.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right! It was asked and I answered.


High five!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Nussa wrote:
> Oh, but of course KPG is omnipotent, and knows all......she labels everyone by her standards. And her standards really suck.
> KPG, I think you need to go join a club for the self centered. Boy that would be something to see. All those self centered people in one room trying to get all the others to do things their way......they'd end up killing each other.....lol. Because you know......there can only be one God......And KPG has already tried to claim that spot....
> 
> ...


Obviously she has internalized the BS in some other manner.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Your constant talk of spiritual belief causes us to disbelieve your belief in anything that is not convenient.


May I quote my own signature?

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm a Young and the Restless fan. Any others?



NJG said:


> Makes me laugh to remember that. I never had a soap addiction, but my Mother did. If I called, she always said right away, "I'm watching my stories," so in other words, can you call back. I know "As the World Turns" was one of her favorites.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> If it were worth the time, a pseudo diagnosis on the need to do all that editing and posting could be interesting.


...as well as the saving of screen shots.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rocky provided a link. It is not as you inferred. Context is everything.



soloweygirl said:


> She was on CNN talking with Piers Morgan when she made the comment. Their website should have it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> My guess is that you will never get an answer to that because it is just another talking point derived from someone's imagination.
> 
> Start counting.


They came up with a source: the Washington Times, owned by the Moonies.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I think soloweygirl needs to explain her use of the word "Handlers" that chose Obama.


I am guessing that so low means God, every thing is in HIS plan, no?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> She was probably one of those people who at about that time in life lost her parents and used that inheritance to either purchase or rehab her dwelling.
> Honestly, I know that she cannot be believed regardless of what she puts out there.
> At the time that she was on me about living in Lawrence, MA amongst the poor people (oh, horrors) she claimed first that she looked the region up, then some said something about her living in Middleton, MA and I went after her about being the "poor relation" amongst the rich folks in Boxford and Topsfield, so she claimed that she had bought a house in Boxford. Boxford is located about 5 miles from Lawrence.
> The stories don't gel. She is (oh what is that term?) a liar.
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Thanks for posting that.
> 
> I haven't been very interested in this conversation, but seeing the article makes me ask: You DO understand the concept of metaphor and hyperbole, don't you? The difference between figurative and literal?


If Barbara said it, it must be true.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS!!!
> 
> ...


Thank you LL, for keeping us informed. Great article. :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see lukelucy is off and cutting and pasting again.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> KPG, obviously something traumatic happened to you long ago and turned you into a bitter, angry, self-righteous person who MUST always be right. There really is help you could get, and I am not saying this facetiously. Your Bible isn't working. God has left you to sort yourself out on your own. That happens sometimes. He's doing what He knows is best for you.
> 
> Find a good psychotherapist and get rid of wnatever your burden is. I'm sure many of us would think better of you if you acknowledged your own flaws instead of always being on the attack. This long, bitter screed is beneath you and everyone else here.


You just called KPG self-righteous. I hadn't heard her called that before, but I think it fits so well. Good call.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm a Young and the Restless fan. Any others?


I watched The Guiding Light for a while because I used to listen to it on the radio with my mother. When I first saw it on TV, the same characters - much older - and some of the same actors were in it. I watched for about a year, then stopped. And then, a couple of years after that, I had a pupil I was tutoring in my apt. The door bell rang; it was her father, and he was one of the Guiding Light actors. Gorgeous.

Speaking of which, I passed Frank Langella in the street today. He looks younger in person than on the screen and is about 9 feet tall, but it was him.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am guessing that so low means God, every thing is in HIS plan, no?


Haven't you noticed - she's not one of the Bible thumpers?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see lukelucy is off and cutting and pasting again.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Haven't you noticed - she's not one of the Bible thumpers?


Actually no, all the people who spout nonsense blend for me.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It's her expertise........I guess she doesn't have opinions of her own.


damemary said:


> I see lukelucy is off and cutting and pasting again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can yell "idiot" all you want. You have no credence with me.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey idiot! Show me exactly where I claimed the value of my assets? Oh, and another thing, I do my own tax return regardless of my net worth. Got a problem with that; talk to someone other than me who cares.
> 
> Rhetorical question = do not answer. I already know you are lying and I have not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Whose pants are on fire? That should resolve this, right?



knitpresentgifts said:


> Boy are you stupid. Poor Purl was referring to Joeysomma. Joeysomma is the person who bought a home at the age of 40 and part of her traveling is in the missionary field (her statements).
> 
> So, of course, you slam me again, when you claim you ignore me. Now you are lying through your teeth as you regularly do about me. I stopped responding to you back in Nov because you acted like the spoiled moron you are acting like now. You must still be beside yourself for not being able to dig your claws into me and make them stick.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, and we always take your insults to heart. Not. They sound so silly.



rocky1991 said:


> That language...IDIOT, isn't that reserved for us Libs? You never use nasty language........ROFLMAO


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Crime comes a-calling everywhere. What would you do if confronted by home invaders?

Oh, I see you're back to your old habit of reading old posts for tidbits. You really are creepy.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, isn't this rich  um, probably should say poor: as I was just reading some of Jelun2's recent posts because I don't read her stupidity much any longer I came across this gem from about four days ago.
> 
> I really love this one she wrote about where she lives (talking about carolers within the neighborhood):
> 
> Must be such a treat living where she CHOSE to buy a home to reside in.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Barbara Walters is part of the media. Try again. Your answers are always a hoot.


Well Solo must be the only one who gives a rats a-- what Barbara Walters thinks or says.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How would you know what I say? You can't distinguish between nouns and verbs, and apparently you're unfamiliar with the word "whom."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Good one Purl.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I suggest she use H & R Block......


Or TurboTax.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, goody, the Moonie paper telling us what some tv person thinks. Should we all take this seriously, or are you the only one?


 :XD: :XD: We all know the answer to this one, Purl.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think this situation is more common than we know. People have been suffering with health care for years.



Knitry said:


> Wow -- I thought this was really heartwarming and wanted to share. One of the very, very REAL stories about how Obamacare is helping people.
> 
> Oh -- and maybe some of our conservatively oriented posters could help me out with something. I've looked this over and am having a difficult time figuring out the bad life decisiions that were made by this family. Can you enlighten me??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Why is he out of work? Doesn't Walmart need greeters? Are there no poorhouses?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Purl, you always surprise me. Guffaw!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's obvious, isn't it? He didn't dump his cancer-stricken wife (like good ol' Newt).


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh Susan, if you & Purl both do this, the neighbors will come running.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> You can yell "idiot" all you want. You have no credence with me.


Good lord, someone is all worked up tonight. I hear sales were down... maybe she has taken to shopping at Target. 
What a mess that is going to be.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She has no idea. That's why complex issues are too much for her. There must be a list in a computer somewhere for the GOP to use for cannon fodder.



Knitry said:


> Thanks for posting that.
> 
> I haven't been very interested in this conversation, but seeing the article makes me ask: You DO understand the concept of metaphor and hyperbole, don't you? The difference between figurative and literal?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TurboTax just asks questions. Surprised our lawmakers allow simplification.



joeysomma said:


> It can be deducted If it is a casualty loss. Use form 4684.
> 
> Start with the value of your loss; subtract any insurance reimbursement; subtract $100; Subtract 10% of your AGI; Then carry the balance to line 20 of Schedule A; then complete the remainder of your taxes.
> 
> Very simplified version.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Kingston sounds kind of like Newt Gingrich, but maybe worse. What do they put in the water in Georgia?


Peach pits?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> You just called KPG self-righteous. I hadn't heard her called that before, but I think it fits so well. Good call.


She was being very generous. That's the nicest thing anyone here ever called her. Except LL.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Peach pits?


Very good , dame! They are known to be poisonous.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ta Da! Great minds......



Poor Purl said:


> May I quote my own signature?
> 
> I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Crime comes a-calling everywhere. What would you do if confronted by home invaders?
> 
> Oh, I see you're back to your old habit of reading old posts for tidbits. You really are creepy.


She is at that, dame. Her business must be in a slump for her to be able to spend all of that time reading archives of old posts. It's very anal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There are amusements available in NYC that aren't available elsewhere. Enjoy.



Poor Purl said:


> I watched The Guiding Light for a while because I used to listen to it on the radio with my mother. When I first saw it on TV, the same characters - much older - and some of the same actors were in it. I watched for about a year, then stopped. And then, a couple of years after that, I had a pupil I was tutoring in my apt. The door bell rang; it was her father, and he was one of the Guiding Light actors. Gorgeous.
> 
> Speaking of which, I passed Frank Langella in the street today. He looks younger in person than on the screen and is about 9 feet tall, but it was him.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They all say so many of the same dodoo that it's hard to know who's talking.



Poor Purl said:


> Haven't you noticed - she's not one of the Bible thumpers?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Purl, you always surprise me. Guffaw!


I was just quoting Ebeneezer Scrooge. 'Tis the season, you know.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think shipments are direct from China to Etsy.



jelun2 said:


> Good lord, someone is all worked up tonight. I hear sales were down... maybe she has taken to shopping at Target.
> What a mess that is going to be.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> TurboTax just asks questions. Surprised our lawmakers allow simplification.


Somehow I don't think that TT or our lawmakers are much interested in my shredded cheese or frozen peas. 
Poor Joey doesn't have a sense of humor.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

My favorite Christmas movie......everyone of them....lol.


Poor Purl said:


> I was just quoting Ebeneezer Scrooge. 'Tis the season, you know.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good to see you Patty. I was thinking poison.



BrattyPatty said:


> Very good , dame! They are known to be poisonous.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Somehow I don't think that TT or our lawmakers are much interested in my shredded cheese or frozen peas.
> Poor Joey doesn't have a sense of humor.


And no sense at all, I'd say.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think shipments are direct from China to Etsy.


Sad isn't it, that Etsy has gone that way? 
It was bad enough when Ebay did it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> There are amusements available in NYC that aren't available elsewhere. Enjoy.


I've been feeling deprived after seeing all the beautiful pictures of houses and lakes and gardens and deer on the lawn that people post on KP. Pictures of the sidewalk in front of my building aren't as beautiful. Well, they are now, because the Christmas tree seller who sets up shop there every year arranged the trees to make the sidewalk look like a forest.

Frank Langella doesn't make up for a lake and a garden, but he's not a bad substitute.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> My favorite Christmas movie......everyone of them....lol.


Youtube has the one with Alastair Sim, which I think is the best.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Somehow I don't think that TT or our lawmakers are much interested in my shredded cheese or frozen peas.
> Poor Joey doesn't have a sense of humor.


Actually, she was trying to be funny with that answer. I thought it was, anyway.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Actually, she was trying to be funny with that answer. I thought it was, anyway.


It is always possible, down to a form number?

It is too late to see if it is just a grouping of numbers or the correct form for losses... that's what being on this thread does to me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> And no sense at all, I'd say.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is always possible, down to a form number?
> 
> It is too late to see if it is just a grouping of numbers or the correct form for losses... that's what being on this thread does to me.


I'm sure the answer was accurate, but when I asked her whether she meant it as a joke, she seemed to answer in the positive. I think. I even high-fived her.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> There are amusements available in NYC that aren't available elsewhere. Enjoy.


Grace Kelly was never in a soap opera?
She surely was lovely, though.

And yes, I am just being goofy.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's my favorite as well. My second favorite is the one with Albert Finney.


Poor Purl said:


> Youtube has the one with Alastair Sim, which I think is the best.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure the answer was accurate, but when I asked her whether she meant it as a joke, she seemed to answer in the positive. I think. I even high-fived her.


Ah, that was what that high five was, I couldn't connect it to anything. 
Perhaps my friend is telling the truth when he says there is no multi-tasking.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Grace Kelly was never in a soap opera?
> She surely was lovely, though.
> 
> And yes, I am just being goofy.


She was luminous - that's the only word I can think of to describe her. Not many people have that kind of beauty. Grace Kelly, Dame Mary, maybe Hedy Lamarr (who was an inventor, too), who else?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Believe me, about 10 people, me included have said that about her.....practically word for word......it didn't do any good.....she's hopeless.


I couldn't stop myself. As I often say about myself, hope springs eternal in the bosom of a fool. (Oooooh, some folks are going to run with THAT!!)


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> The Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, and Southern Lynch Mobs all had a basis of religion. Do you think they were all righteous? An answer, please.


They THOUGHT they were righteous, and found their conviction in their Bibles. You can find so many contradictions in the Bible that support and encourage a world where there can be witch trials and charity for poor widows at the same time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm a Young and the Restless fan. Any others?


Oh, yeah. Been watching it since it came on!! There have been some patches of time when I didn't have a TV around but you can miss a soap for 6 months and still know what's going on when you tune in again. My mom and I have started watching General Hospital, still amazed and amused by a soap with doctors and mobsters as the main characters, but two former As the World Turns actors are on it which is the big draw.

Will Fen become a fugitive? Will Adam be caught for killing Delia? Will Summer get hooked on drugs? When will Phyllis wake up? Nick and Sharon kissed today!! Oh, lord, what will happen nest?? And my dearest wish is that the guy who plays Victor will retire sometime in my lifetime,and his final story line will involve everyone he ever stepped on to get what he wanted getting real bigtime revenge.

Tune in tomorrow. :thumbup: :thumbup:

PS. Yes, I know I'm talking about something absolutely useless but its been a long hard day and I don't have any more energy left to be completely serious.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> You just called KPG self-righteous. I hadn't heard her called that before, but I think it fits so well. Good call.


I'm surprised by what you said. It seems really obvious. I'm probably just the fool who said the most obvious thing when others had the sense not to waste time stating it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I watched The Guiding Light for a while because I used to listen to it on the radio with my mother. When I first saw it on TV, the same characters - much older - and some of the same actors were in it. I watched for about a year, then stopped. And then, a couple of years after that, I had a pupil I was tutoring in my apt. The door bell rang; it was her father, and he was one of the Guiding Light actors. Gorgeous.
> 
> Speaking of which, I passed Frank Langella in the street today. He looks younger in person than on the screen and is about 9 feet tall, but it was him.


You had a good day! I sometimes hear episodes of the Guiding Light on old time radio shows, and watched on TV. My grandmother watched the CBS soaps and I remember being a little kid and watching with her. She lived next door to my elementary school for a while and I would go to her place for lunch.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> My favorite Christmas movie......everyone of them....lol.


Ours has always been "The March of the Wooden Soldiers" with Laurel & Hardy. For a long time it was on TV around Christmas on more than one channel. Now we have the DVD. Christmas Eve this year will feature pizza and that movie!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Audrey Hepburn, Liz Taylor, Sophia Loren. (I can't even tease that I'm in this class, but thanks.)



Poor Purl said:


> She was luminous - that's the only word I can think of to describe her. Not many people have that kind of beauty. Grace Kelly, Dame Mary, maybe Hedy Lamarr (who was an inventor, too), who else?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The question is does LTL agree with these groups.



MaidInBedlam said:


> They THOUGHT they were righteous, and found their conviction in their Bibles. You can find so many contradictions in the Bible that support and encourage a world where there can be witch trials and charity for poor widows at the same time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hear Adam actor fired. So he's gone....interesting to see how it shakes out. They will find a way to punish him. He's so BAD.

Summer popped a pill today. I see a story line emerging.

I'm so tired of Nick & Sharon. It's like Dylan and Nick are brothers. Too much going on among a small town of characters....and then repeating.

Wouldn't it be great to see Victor's can kicked. He sure has it coming.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, yeah. Been watching it since it came on!! There have been some patches of time when I didn't have a TV around but you can miss a soap for 6 months and still know what's going on when you tune in again. My mom and I have started watching General Hospital, still amazed and amused by a soap with doctors and mobsters as the main characters, but two former As the World Turns actors are on it which is the big draw.
> 
> Will Fen become a fugitive? Will Adam be caught for killing Delia? Will Summer get hooked on drugs? When will Phyllis wake up? Nick and Sharon kissed today!! Oh, lord, what will happen nest?? And my dearest wish is that the guy who plays Victor will retire sometime in my lifetime,and his final story line will involve everyone he ever stepped on to get what he wanted getting real bigtime revenge.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Ah, that was what that high five was, I couldn't connect it to anything.
> Perhaps my friend is telling the truth when he says there is no multi-tasking.


You have funny friends. Of course there's multi-tasking. I can knit and argue with my husband at the same time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4684.pdf


It's getting less funny. I'd only give you a high 3 for this.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Audrey Hepburn, Liz Taylor, Sophia Loren. (I can't even tease that I'm in this class, but thanks.)


I never cared much for Taylor, though her eyes were amazing, but A. Hepburn and Loren, yes.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Great poster, Galinipper! :thumbup:


Good Morning Jokim, Wishing you and your Family a Merry Christmas and safe travels if you have a destination. Thank You for the compliment. I return that compliment to you. Your kindness is not overlooked. Have a great day. Gali


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Very good , dame! They are known to be poisonous.


I believe they are--peach pits too. I know apricot kernels definitely are. My husband was on a health food kick and ordered a huge bag of those suckers then started munching them like peanuts. He was convinced (praise be the Internet) that they could prevent or cure any affliction. Then he found out that they contain cyanide, and 200 or so of those suckers is considered a lethal dose. That was the end of that, thank goodness!


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't noticed many people on this thread complaining about taxes, except the Repugs, who'd prefer not to pay any (but still want to use the roads and have the military to protect them).
> .


Well then ....Call me a complaining Repug. 
It's not just my right to hold my elected officials accountable, It's my duty.
All citizens that are able should start with their city council and county commissioners meetings. Head to your courthouse and commissioner building, read the bulletin boards, pick-up the literature and follow your money, Keep your eye on the regulations that they pass. Some of your hometown elected officials are drunk on your assets and will lie to get more, find out who they are and vote them out. It starts in your home, county,city and state and goes right to the top. Pork and Waste runs amuck. It's our duty to stop it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You had a good day! I sometimes hear episodes of the Guiding Light on old time radio shows, and watched on TV. My grandmother watched the CBS soaps and I remember being a little kid and watching with her. She lived next door to my elementary school for a while and I would go to her place for lunch.


My mother watched As The World Turns for years, and heaven help the fool who dared interrupt her stories. Even as a child I knew she was being ridiculous--until I got hooked on All My Children and the first Iraqi war intervened. Special bulletins broke into MY soap five days a week (always during a crucial moment, of course), and it drove me crazy. Those things are addictive.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see lukelucy is off and cutting and pasting again.


 :lol: :lol: Can't help yourself from being nasty.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I watched The Guiding Light for a while because I used to listen to it on the radio with my mother. When I first saw it on TV, the same characters - much older - and some of the same actors were in it. I watched for about a year, then stopped. And then, a couple of years after that, I had a pupil I was tutoring in my apt. The door bell rang; it was her father, and he was one of the Guiding Light actors. Gorgeous.
> 
> Speaking of which, I passed Frank Langella in the street today. He looks younger in person than on the screen and is about 9 feet tall, but it was him.


San Francisco has a sprinkling of celebrities, and when I lived there I got used to reports of various encounters (BIL saw Robin Williams doing his act in a bike shop, a co-worker ran into Keneau Reeves and got his autograph to prove it). But I never got lucky until my sister and I ran into Mohammad ( _The Real World _ ) in a Max's on Van Ness. We simply couldn't believe our eyes, and I gaped and gawked as he gave us a little wave. The memory embarasses me now, but I guess stars are used to it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you LL, for keeping us informed. Great article. :thumbup:


After reading this two time. I wonder if the president does not realize he was one of those who claim to be poor and manage to raise himself up out of that life by getting a good education with help from the goverment.

So why does he feel others can't do the same thing?

As to KGP I understand where you are coming from. Your not dog dodo to me. When you are attack by all then you have to say something.

Do not feel to bad about it it was done to me. But the differnce between us is I at the time was attacking back. I felt the need to as lies were being spread about me too.

I have learned by the graace of God to back away it is not easy and I am sure I will now be attack for posting this.

But KGP and the rest of you. Think of you kindly and do read everything on here. Do not feel the need to be like sheep as some would like to believe. Just my opinion about you and the others.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> After reading this two time. I wonder if the president does not realize he was one of those who claim to be poor and manage to raise himself up out of that life by getting a good education with help from the goverment.
> 
> So why does he feel others can't do the same thing?
> 
> ...


Their need to attack comes from a deep weakness of character on their part. They do not know it, but they shout out their weakness all the time. I have disengaged. If one has a strong, healthy character, one does not need to get engaged. However, I understand the initial impulse to correct what they are saying. They will never allow themselves to see - also indicating a weak character on their part.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I believe they are--peach pits too. I know apricot kernels definitely are. My husband was on a health food kick and ordered a huge bag of those suckers then started munching them like peanuts. He was convinced (praise be the Internet) that they could prevent or cure any affliction. Then he found out that they contain cyanide, and 200 or so of those suckers is considered a lethal dose. That was the end of that, thank goodness!


What was the fruit pit they made laetrile out of (if I'm thinking of the right thing)? Wasn't it apricot.

Wait, question 2: I often see "apricot kernels" as an ingredient in foods. Is the FDA nuts, or are "kernels" not the same as "pits"?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Their need to attack comes from a deep weakness of character on their part. They do not know it, but they shout out their weakness all the time. I have disengaged. If one has a strong, healthy character, one does not need to get engaged. However, I understand the initial impulse to correct what they are saying. They will never allow themselves to see - also indicating a weak character on their part.


Talk about self-righteous. You, who only echo what others have said or repeat yourself ad nauseam, are diagnosing "weakness of character" in people whose writing you barely understand? Really! You should be stripped of your psychiatric credentials. They're not worth what you paid for them.

Unless you paid nothing, in which case they're well worth the price.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Talk about self-righteous. You, who only echo what others have said or repeat yourself ad nauseam, are diagnosing "weakness of character" in people whose writing you barely understand? Really! You should be stripped of your psychiatric credentials. They're not worth what you paid for them.
> 
> Unless you paid nothing, in which case they're well worth the price.


Here you go again.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What was the fruit pit they made laetrile out of (if I'm thinking of the right thing)? Wasn't it apricot.
> 
> Wait, question 2: I often see "apricot kernels" as an ingredient in foods. Is the FDA nuts, or are "kernels" not the same as "pits"?


Apricots, plums, and peaches all have that hard thing in the center (what people call the pit), and if you break it open there's a little thing about the size and appearance of an almond. I remember my mother telling us they were poisonous, but I didn't realize it was cyanide until DH got into "health" foods and I looked it up. Brrrrr. IMHO people who eat those things are out of their minds. Those kernels average 1.8 mg of cyanide per--a tiny little bit for flavoring, as in amaretto, is no doubt fine...but a bagfull, or about 200 kernels, could easily do you in.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> My mother watched As The World Turns for years, and heaven help the fool who dared interrupt her stories. Even as a child I knew she was being ridiculous--until I got hooked on All My Children and the first Iraqi war intervened. Special bulletins broke into MY soap five days a week (always during a crucial moment, of course), and it drove me crazy. Those things are addictive.


I watched several as a young mother (a lot of years ago). One weekend I found myself worying more about their problem than being concerned about my own life and quit.

Yes, they are addictive. And I'd say basically harmless -- especially if you're knitting while watching.

:mrgreen:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> After reading this two time. I wonder if the president does not realize he was one of those who claim to be poor and manage to raise himself up out of that life by getting a good education with help from the goverment.
> 
> So why does he feel others can't do the same thing?


Now WHERE do you get such an idea -- that he doesn't believe others can do the same thing? He most certainly does. It's a lie, what you believe. Seriously, where did you get such an idea?? I'd really like to know.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What was the fruit pit they made laetrile out of (if I'm thinking of the right thing)? Wasn't it apricot.
> 
> Wait, question 2: I often see "apricot kernels" as an ingredient in foods. Is the FDA nuts, or are "kernels" not the same as "pits"?


Google could answer your first question, I'm sure you know.

As for your second, YIKES! What foods would that be?? Yes, kernels and pits are the same thing (far as I know).

Edited to add: our food manufacturers and processors have no compunctions about poisoning, so I shouldn't be surprised, I suppose. But still.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I don't know if any of you saw the picture of Mrs. Obama the other day.

She was getting ready to give do a commerical for tv and radio to ask others to sign up for ACA and to ask them to tell others to sign up for ACA during the holiday's.

I felt so sorry for her. Her body language said it all. Instead of seating up straight as she normal does she was hunch over her new bangs where gone, and so was her smile. I do mean it when I say I felt sorry for her. She was so very sad. I do not like to see anyone feeling sad or defeated like that. It's hard when the world around you is not a good place to be. I may not agree with her husbands policy's but I do not want to see a person feeling like the world is falling in on me or others. 
I did not like seeing President Obama sitting next to her with his arms cross. If I remember right when someone does that that their body language is telling others to stay away and not come near them. I expected h;im to at least be helping her with some act of kindness. I know others will not see it that way, but that is what I saw.

Plus when she did do her commericals and I listen to both radio and Tv commercials she ask others to please share at this time of year to tell others to sign up for ACA.

I am sure others many feel like me it is not the time when families gather to start on politic's.

My oldest is a Democrat. We have had some heated talks about politic's. I have learned it is off limits when we are together. I love him and I know he loves me. But espeically at Christmas time when we as a family are gathered together. It to me is a time of joy not the place to bring up something that may hurt your friends or loved ones.

As I have said before we are all different and I am glad that God saw fit to make us this way what a dull life it would be if we all agreed with things in our life.

I also want to say again that I felt such saddness for Mrs. Obama. I do not want to see anyone that sad. Life is hard enough, and at this time of year she deserves to be happy and joyful.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> San Francisco has a sprinkling of celebrities, and when I lived there I got used to reports of various encounters (BIL saw Robin Williams doing his act in a bike shop, a co-worker ran into Keneau Reeves and got his autograph to prove it). But I never got lucky until my sister and I ran into Mohammad ( _The Real World _ ) in a Max's on Van Ness. We simply couldn't believe our eyes, and I gaped and gawked as he gave us a little wave. The memory embarasses me now, but I guess stars are used to it.


There's nothing to be embarrassed about - I'm sure it's entirely passed from his memory. If you want to hear embarrassing:

My next-door neighbor (I've had two celebrities living on my floor, which has only 3 apartments) had a villain role in The Edge of Night. To us he was just Louie, whose kids I had known since they were babies. My brother and sister-in-law, coming to visit, got into the elevator, and Louie got in with them. SIL looked at him and said "You're going to be in real trouble if you don't stop." Louie burst out laughing, and she turned red.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Now WHERE do you get such an idea -- that he doesn't believe others can do the same thing? He most certainly does. It's a lie, what you believe. Seriously, where did you get such an idea?? I'd really like to know.


From the article that LOL posted.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Plus when she did do her commericals and I listen to both radio and Tv commercials she ask others to please share at this time of year to tell others to sign up for ACA.
> 
> I am sure others many feel like me it is not the time when families gather to start on politic's.


I suspect your thoughts about Mrs. Obama are misplaced, but it's nice to see a little compassion ANYwhere from the right. ;-)

As for encouraging others to sign up for the ACA -- it's not political, you know. Do you consider it political to sign up for Medicare or Social Security? These are totally apolitical earned benefits. ACA as a program is also totally apolitical.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Here you go again.


Here *you* go again...and again. Once more repeating yourself. If you're really "disengaged," why do you see the need to psychoanalyze? Freud called it "the repetition compulsion," which you have in spades.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I suspect your thoughts about Mrs. Obama are misplaced, but it's nice to see a little compassion ANYwhere from the right. ;-)
> 
> As for encouraging others to sign up for the ACA -- it's not political, you know. Do you consider it political to sign up for Medicare or Social Security? These are totally apolitical earned benefits. ACA as a program is also totally apolitical.


Not any more from what I have read in the papers, and on TV. It has become political to me.

I do not want to fight you about Mrs. OBama ,but unless you saw that picture you do not understand where I am coming from. 
She has always been the glowing and happy women sitting up straight. Always with a smile on her face. I saw a different women in that picture. Not at all like the lady I have seen on TV or in the papers.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Apricots, plums, and peaches all have that hard thing in the center (what people call the pit), and if you break it open there's a little thing about the size and appearance of an almond. I remember my mother telling us they were poisonous, but I didn't realize it was cyanide until DH got into "health" foods and I looked it up. Brrrrr. IMHO people who eat those things are out of their minds. Those kernels average 1.8 mg of cyanide per--a tiny little bit for flavoring, as in amaretto, is no doubt fine...but a bagfull, or about 200 kernels, could easily do you in.


Oh, if it's only 1.8 mg...

Did your husband's fingernails turn blue from the cyanide?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> My mother watched As The World Turns for years, and heaven help the fool who dared interrupt her stories. Even as a child I knew she was being ridiculous--until I got hooked on All My Children and the first Iraqi war intervened. Special bulletins broke into MY soap five days a week (always during a crucial moment, of course), and it drove me crazy. Those things are addictive.


They sure are :!: I justify spending the time watching those things by knitting or crocheting at the same time...   I popped in here for a minute,but I'm crocheting like mad to finish a shawlthat Ihope will be a Christmas present and watching a bad 50'sscience fiction movie called "The Giant Gila Monster". maybe I sbould say I'm multi-tasking. That sound better, eh?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I suspect your thoughts about Mrs. Obama are misplaced, but it's nice to see a little compassion ANYwhere from the right. ;-)


I agree with you, Knitry. Being a Presidential spouse is never easy, and I'm certain Mrs. Obama has a tougher row to hoe than most. Imagine hearing yourself and your spouse being laughed at and ridiculed by the nation's ultra-conservatives and right-wing bigots--about everything from the social programs you promote to the size of your bottom. Worse still, imagine hearing one's _ children _ being talked about in such a way...there isn't enough money in the world to persuade me to go through that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, if it's only 1.8 mg...
> 
> Did your husband's fingernails turn blue from the cyanide?


Fortunately, no--he stopped eating those things when I told him all the awful consequences of cyanide poisoning and invoked Jim Jones' legacy (that was the stuff he used to kill his own people, mixed with the infamous FlavourAid).


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They sure are :!: I justify spending the time watching those things by knitting or crocheting at the same time...   I popped in here for a minute,but I'm crocheting like mad to finish a shawlthat Ihope will be a Christmas present and watching a bad 50'sscience fiction movie called "The Giant Gila Monster". maybe I sbould say I'm multi-tasking. That sound better, eh?


Fine by me! Today's going to be busy for me as well--the shopping's done, but I still have the house to clean, Christmas dinner to plan, and my son's birthday to prepare for (10 little boys for an afternoon of bowling and arcade games. Zowie! They'll be bouncing off the walls by the time Santa squeezes down the chimney).


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm asking this in all seriousness.......Do you know of any city that has taken on their city council and has won? In my city, that has never worked. We've had a lawyer, who, on his own, has fought this cities corruption on his own for many years......but it seems that the city always finds some suddenly existing law, that will allow them to do whatever they please. Who ever coined the phrase, "You can't fight city hall." knew exactly what he was talking about.


galinipper said:


> Well then ....Call me a complaining Repug.
> It's not just my right to hold my elected officials accountable, It's my duty.
> All citizens that are able should start with their city council and county commissioners meetings. Head to your courthouse and commissioner building, read the bulletin boards, pick-up the literature and follow your money, Keep your eye on the regulations that they pass. Some of your hometown elected officials are drunk on your assets and will lie to get more, find out who they are and vote them out. It starts in your home, county,city and state and goes right to the top. Pork and Waste runs amuck. It's our duty to stop it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I'm asking this in all seriousness.......Do you know of any city that has taken on their city council and has won? In my city, that has never worked. We've had a lawyer, who, on his own, has fought this cities corruption on his own for many years......but it seems that the city always finds some suddenly existing law, that will allow them to do whatever they please. Who ever coined the phrase, "You can't fight city hall." knew exactly what he was talking about.


Have you tried the state's attorney general?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't know if any of you saw the picture of Mrs. Obama the other day.
> 
> She was getting ready to give do a commerical for tv and radio to ask others to sign up for ACA and to ask them to tell others to sign up for ACA during the holiday's.
> 
> ...


Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Here *you* go again...and again. Once more repeating yourself. If you're really "disengaged," why do you see the need to psychoanalyze? Freud called it "the repetition compulsion," which you have in spades.


Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again. This "re-living" can also take the form of dreams in which memories and feelings of what happened are repeated, and even hallucination.

The term can also be used to cover the repetition of behaviour or life patterns more broadly: a "key component in Freud's understanding of mental life, 'repetition compulsion'...describes the pattern whereby people endlessly repeat patterns of behaviour which were difficult or distressing in earlier life."[1]

Where am I repeating a behavior here that was distressing in my earlier life?

I think you are just being nasty again. I will ignore your abusive treatment from now on. You need therapy for your aggressive, negative, destructive, pathetic, and sadistic behavior.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Here you go again.


Love the retort LL. Keep up the good work!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.


So you think Money makes you happy? I believe that has been dis-proven many times over. You have a very cynical attitude, or are you just envious?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

ubiquitousjsd said:


> Exactly. The hubris of some people that whatever THEY speak IS Christianity and therefore you're attacking Christianity _itself_ if you question _them_ is, IMO, an insult to God and Jesus. They literally can't tell the difference between themselves and Christ.
> 
> I will say, as a Christian, that when we are told that we must "know" Christ to be saved, what that means is that an individual must know the heart of Jesus (_even if they're not aware of Jesus himself_).
> 
> ...


Wonder why did person got suspended? Never mind I think I know. :shock:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Might I suggest that it's possible the First Lady may be over extending herself this time of the year? Being the wife of the President carries with it a lot of responsibility... And she, and her daughters must certainly be upset by the way their husband/father has been treated by the Republicans, media, and those who have chosen to hate him. How would you feel if your husband or some other loved one was being persecuted, and you could do nothing but sit and watch? Not so good I would imagine. 
You know, we all sit here saying, you know, so & so said something mean and nasty to so & so. Then some feel sorry for them and tell the rest of the group not to be so mean. Should that compassion not extend to the President and his family? Maybe we should all think about what we say before we say it, so as not to hurt any ones feelings. I guess we are defending ourselves from someone's attack. But The President can't defend himself from all the attacks on this site, so some of us defend him, Just like the Republican's on this site defend each other. So I don't know why the Republican's show us such animosity. We are just defending someone who isn't here to defend themselves.


theyarnlady said:


> Not any more from what I have read in the papers, and on TV. It has become political to me.
> 
> I do not want to fight you about Mrs. OBama ,but unless you saw that picture you do not understand where I am coming from.
> She has always been the glowing and happy women sitting up straight. Always with a smile on her face. I saw a different women in that picture. Not at all like the lady I have seen on TV or in the papers.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> So you think Money makes you happy? I believe that has been dis-proven many times over. You have a very cynical attitude, or are you just envious?


Where in the world do you get the idea that I ever thought that money makes one happy? Huh? I have never stated that. Are you twisting the facts again?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes....we have, and were told by our state's attorney general that it is a city issue and to go back to our city council. As a matter of fact, just yesterday the City had a unscheduled meeting, and decided to take a half cent tax that had originally been voted in for something else, & will use it for a building that we had voted down. As it is now.... we pay 7.5 % sales tax. They've been tacking on these half cent sales taxes since the 1970's. And always promising that it will last only 5 yrs. Then they're extended forever. And it seems we can't do anything about it. And don't get me started on their abuse of the eminent domain law.


Poor Purl said:


> Have you tried the state's attorney general?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> If you were to check, you will find I have attempted to be nice to many of those who seem to hate the fact that I support President Obama. And you know what they told me? That I was crazy because I use medication to control my depression, and should be put away. It was truly a nasty post. So you see, I HAVE tried. And I got a royal beat down for my effort. I am always ready to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but after you've tried to use a medical condition I have to try to show everyone that I'm crazy, you aren't going to do it to me twice. And you can no longer expect for me to be considerate to you. And not once did this person apologize to me for that totally uncalled for remark. As a matter of fact, she continued for some time to use it against me. I'm sure you can guess who it was, as she's forever making degrading remarks to people.
> As for the religious post you didn't make. I'm referring to the fact that you will defend your friends rights to post their religious posts, but will back them up when they try to deny or bad mouth our religious posts, because they believe it's quite obviously wrong, as it isn't their religious belief. If you back them up, you are perceived to be supporting their ideas. There are some posts I don't participate in, as I don't have any beneficial knowledge on the subject, so I will not back a poster if I don't participate.


Man, can you ever make things up to suit your needs. I have not defended or criticized ANYONE'S religious statements, on either side. I did correct Huckleberry when she said I was a Christian and began her nasty comment. The only other comment I have made about religion, if you want to count it, was that I would appreciate it if someone wanted to pray for me (for whatever reason) as I would consider that an act of kindness by that individual. That is the extent into my delving into religion on this forum. Go ahead and make things up if that's what you need to make your point.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Why do I think that if you are spending all of your time around young people who can't afford to buy health insurance that you don't pay any taxes?


I have no idea what you are talking about.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Man, can you ever make things up to suit your needs. I have not defended or criticized ANYONE'S religious statements, on either side. I did correct Huckleberry when she said I was a Christian and began her nasty comment. The only other comment I have made about religion, if you want to count it, was that I would appreciate it if someone wanted to pray for me (for whatever reason) as I would consider that an act of kindness by that individual. That is the extent into my delving into religion on this forum. Go ahead and make things up if that's what you need to make your point.


It's amazing how things are made up and twisted here. All their twists describe what THEY are thinking - not us.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It is what it is!


soloweygirl said:


> Man, can you ever make things up to suit your needs. I have not defended or criticized ANYONE'S religious statements, on either side. I did correct Huckleberry when she said I was a Christian and began her nasty comment. The only other comment I have made about religion, if you want to count it, was that I would appreciate it if someone wanted to pray for me (for whatever reason) as I would consider that an act of kindness by that individual. That is the extent into my delving into religion on this forum. Go ahead and make things up if that's what you need to make your point.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, at least you admit you have a memory problem....


soloweygirl said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Good Morning Jokim, Wishing you and your Family a Merry Christmas and safe travels if you have a destination. Thank You for the compliment. I return that compliment to you. Your kindness is not overlooked. Have a great day. Gali


Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year 2014 to you also, Gali. We are together as a family this Christmas. Safe travels to you also, if you are going away for the holidays. XX Jokim


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Well then ....Call me a complaining Repug.
> It's not just my right to hold my elected officials accountable, It's my duty.
> All citizens that are able should start with their city council and county commissioners meetings. Head to your courthouse and commissioner building, read the bulletin boards, pick-up the literature and follow your money, Keep your eye on the regulations that they pass. Some of your hometown elected officials are drunk on your assets and will lie to get more, find out who they are and vote them out. It starts in your home, county,city and state and goes right to the top. Pork and Waste runs amuck. It's our duty to stop it.


Right you are, Gali :thumbup:
But for some people it's easier to stay home and hope someone else will show up at town meetings and stand up against waste and fraud.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I think soloweygirl needs to explain her use of the word "Handlers" that chose Obama.


"Handlers" would be the people that picked him to run and managed his campaigns.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Where in the world do you get the idea that I ever thought that money makes one happy? Huh? I have never stated that. Are you twisting the facts again?


Your statement:

Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.

Please explain this to me.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I am guessing that so low means God, every thing is in HIS plan, no?


And again you would be wrong. At this point we expect nothing less and definitely nothing more.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again. This "re-living" can also take the form of dreams in which memories and feelings of what happened are repeated, and even hallucination.
> 
> The term can also be used to cover the repetition of behaviour or life patterns more broadly: a "key component in Freud's understanding of mental life, 'repetition compulsion'...describes the pattern whereby people endlessly repeat patterns of behaviour which were difficult or distressing in earlier life."[1]
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: LL, don't fret. In their answers, they are just proving your original point.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well Solo must be the only one who gives a rats a-- what Barbara Walters thinks or says.


No, but judging by the main stream media, there are a whole lot of newspeople that agreed with her. Their bubble burst and now they have to deal with what they so adamantly defended over the last 5+ years. How sad for them.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> It's amazing how things are made up and twisted here. All their twists describe what THEY are thinking - not us.


It doesn't appear to me that this is a one sided problem, I think things get twisted on both sides of this discussion.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> They all say so many of the same dodoo that it's hard to know who's talking.


We always know when you get on KP. The whole discussion takes a nose dive. This is something you are very consistent in doing. One line answers, with a zing thrown in at times or thumbs up smilies. At least it allows us the ability to scroll past and not waste our time. This post being an exception.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I've never heard that term before.


soloweygirl said:


> "Handlers" would be the people that picked him to run and managed his campaigns.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Your statement:
> 
> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.
> 
> Please explain this to me.


I suspect LL believes that the Obamas (and "those" people) get their jollies not from the money but from the act of stealing it from good hard-working Christian folk--like her, KPG, and the rest of the "quality". :hunf:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, at least you admit you have a memory problem....


No memory problem. Just Julen jumping in to make a nasty comment and not knowing, as usual, what she is talking about.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Your statement:
> 
> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.
> 
> Please explain this to me.


Explain? So you can come back at me with disrespect? I'l try anyway.

Anyone who spends taxpayer money for frivolous trips, etc., should be looked at by everyone - no matter what socioeconomic group they are in. It is a matter of principle. It is a reflection of my moral code, not my socioeconomic status or lack thereof.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: LL, don't fret. In their answers, they are just proving your original point.


Thank you, Jokim. I really think they are sadistic people.

In another light, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> It doesn't appear to me that this is a one sided problem, I think things get twisted on both sides of this discussion.


I just do not see that.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thank you, Jokim. I really think they are sadistic people.
> 
> In another light, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you.


Thank you LL for the Christmas wishes and a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and family, also. Hope you have lots of good food and drink and merry company during the holidays. XX Jokim


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I just do not see that.


Of course you don't and neither does the "other side"


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you LL for the Christmas wishes and a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and family, also. Hope you have lots of good food and drink and merry company during the holidays. XX Jokim


Glad I know you, Jokim.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: Can't help yourself from being nasty.


I have to ask, what did damemary do besides note that you are doing what you do?
How is that nasty?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> No memory problem. Just Julen jumping in to make a nasty comment and not knowing, as usual, what she is talking about.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


>


KPG,

I refuse to answer or read anything she writes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't know if any of you saw the picture of Mrs. Obama the other day.
> 
> She was getting ready to give do a commerical for tv and radio to ask others to sign up for ACA and to ask them to tell others to sign up for ACA during the holiday's.
> 
> ...


Interesting observatiion Yarnie. I'm not surprised in any way. When your husband, the President, has a 30 point drop in his approval rating because of actions HE, himself has put forth which resulted in that rating drop, desperate times call for desperate measures so the wife is called in.

The President has huge problems with his signature legislation regardless of all the others scandals that are part of his Administration under his watch, so he'll try and _has_ to try anything and everything to reverse the negative slide.

Personally, I don't think trotting out Michelle will work (improve his disapproval rating) which is now rivaling Nixon's at the same point in his Presidency.

The problem, ObamaCare, still is in effect and is still the problem no matter what face you try to hide it behind.

Now, nearly 70% disapprove of Obama's Obamacare and Obama, himself, along with the Dems who are leaving him in crowds trying to distance themselves from the disaster.

The black unemployment rate has doubled since Obama has been President, unemployment overall is stagnate, the economy is horrific, the rich are getting richer and the class of poor growing, food stamps have doubled, more have been killed in the last five years for 'no war' support and not one job (net increase) has been created during Obama's term to date all because of his Administration's plans, policies and taxing.

When all else has failed around you, why not bring out your wife to at least show a pretty face on the facts you are trying to ignore.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I refuse to answer or read anything she writes.


You joined the same club I did! Great minds think alike ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

A Harvard law professor received a 400K grant from the National Science Foundation to study members of the Tea Party. The professor found that TP members had a better performance on cognitive reasoning tests and they were better at scientific comprehension than non TP members. The test scores increased with ones strength of identification to the TP. The professor found the results surprising and predicted the "cognitive scores would be negatively correlated with right wing ideology".HIs study also revealed that "liberals and conservatives were uniformly prone to ideologically motivated reasoning".


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> A Harvard law professor received a 400K grant from the National Science Foundation to study members of the Tea Party. The professor found that TP members had a better performance on cognitive reasoning tests and they were better at scientific comprehension than non TP members. The test scores increased with ones strength of identification to the TP. The professor found the results surprising and predicted the "cognitive scores would be negatively correlated with right wing ideology".HIs study also revealed that "liberals and conservatives were uniformly prone to ideologically motivated reasoning".


Link?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You joined the same club I did! Great minds think alike ...


That's a funny kind of club just last night you posted a bunch of screen shots and archived statements of comments. I think that you spend hours pouring over the statements of those who are superior to you.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> From the article that LOL posted.


If LOL is Lady Of the Lake, I couldn't find anything like that in the last 7 days. So -- what article, please?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

It now seems that that "crappy" health insurance policy you had before is good enough for Obamacare after all. The WH is urging insurers to offer a bare bones catastrophic coverage plan to those that have had cancelled policies. Will they ever stop confusing everybody? Probably not, it does seem to take away from all the problems and non-fixes. WH was unable to pull back and admit all the problems with Obamacare and set about fixing them, but instead chose to go ahead with Obamacare and the government shutdown. They certainly wouldn't be in this world of hurt if they did.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Link?


National Science Foundation is the source.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Not any more from what I have read in the papers, and on TV. It has become political to me.
> 
> I do not want to fight you about Mrs. OBama ,but unless you saw that picture you do not understand where I am coming from.
> She has always been the glowing and happy women sitting up straight. Always with a smile on her face. I saw a different women in that picture. Not at all like the lady I have seen on TV or in the papers.


There's no fight at all - I merely voiced the opinion you MIGHT be worrying for naught. People get tired, you know? Esp. at this time of the year.

The camera can often catch unguarded moments. I know that I can be thinking of something quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things -- a movie I saw and didn't like, for example -- and my facial expression will be awful. A picture snapped at the moment doesn't reveal a THING about me other than some fleeting thoughts.

OTOH, things may indeed be weighing heavily on her. She IS human.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It now seems that that "crappy" health insurance policy you had before is good enough for Obamacare after all. The WH is urging insurers to offer a bare bones catastrophic coverage plan to those that have had cancelled policies. Will they ever stop confusing everybody? Probably not, it does seem to take away from all the problems and non-fixes. WH was unable to pull back and admit all the problems with Obamacare and set about fixing them, but instead chose to go ahead with Obamacare and the government shutdown. They certainly wouldn't be in this world of hurt if they did.


Desperate times call for desperate measures. His ship has sunk.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Link?


I think this is it:

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/

Not Harvard, as she reported--Yale. I guess knowing one school from another doesn't fall in the category of scientific literacy, though.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.


Just so you know: that's another lie you've been snookered with.

You know the insidiousness of lies like that is that they gain so much currency among those who wish to believe them true rather than wish to NOW the actual truth, and it's very hard to get the truth out there.

Like the story that a Dr. Laura (remember her?) told about gossip: To do penance for having gossiped about someone (and no gossip is benign or friendly!), the gossip was told to take a pillow up to the top of a mountain, rip it open and release all the feathers to the winds, then return for instructions for Part 2.

When the gossip had done that and returned for the next piece of the penance, she was told to now go gather up all those feathers. A look of horror crossed her face at the absolute impossibility of doing that, and she was told: "THAT is how difficult it is to undo the damage of gossip."

The lies that are told about Obama and his wife are bad (and morally wrong) enough, but the corrosive effect they have on our nation to have the electorate encouraged to believe all these lies, and to pass them on to others, does untold damage which hurts ALL of us -- including Republican voters like yourselves. You may not see that in the short term, but ANY time you are told a lie that you believe about ANYone is not just a betrayal of your trust, but an affront to you and your integrity.

The people who are responsible know very well what they are doing: they THRIVE on your distrust of government and hatred of the people in the other political party; they THRIVE on the divisiveness which keeps you distracted and unable to notice their wrongdoing. The bottom line is that you trade what's in the best interests of your nation (and your own!) -- and you do it all too willingly -- for a fleeting and ephemeral opportunity to feel superior to someone holding high office, and to laugh at him and others in his party.

Almost forgot (and if you have other "stories" about using taxpayer money inappropriately, please share so I can debunk those too):



> Michelles European Vacation
> Q: Did Michelle Obama and her daughters use taxpayer money to take a European vacation?
> 
> A: The first lady, her mother and her children did stay in Europe for a private vacation after the president completed an overseas trip on official business. However, no taxpayer money was used for the first familys personal expenses.
> http://www.factcheck.org/tag/michelle-obama/


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Explain? So you can come back at me with disrespect? I'l try anyway.
> 
> Anyone who spends taxpayer money for frivolous trips, etc., should be looked at by everyone - no matter what socioeconomic group they are in. It is a matter of principle. It is a reflection of my moral code, not my socioeconomic status or lack thereof.


She doesn't: 
http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4498633&t=222136

I wish your moral code included not so willingly buying into the lies about the Obamas, and Democrats in general. There are things about them you could reasonably and legitimately criticize. You don't need to traffic in lies.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


Oh, is that why Laura Bush always looked so unhappy under that not-quite-believable plastic smile? Now THERE's a First Lady I felt sorry for.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> National Science Foundation is the source.


Nevermind, susanmos2000 finally had pity on the internet-challenge rightwingers here and posted a link. (Thanks, Susan)


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A Harvard law professor received a 400K grant from the National Science Foundation to study members of the Tea Party. The professor found that TP members had a better performance on cognitive reasoning tests and they were better at scientific comprehension than non TP members. The test scores increased with ones strength of identification to the TP. The professor found the results surprising and predicted the "cognitive scores would be negatively correlated with right wing ideology".HIs study also revealed that "liberals and conservatives were uniformly prone to ideologically motivated reasoning".


Does this finding surprise you, Solo?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think this is it:
> 
> http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/
> 
> Not Harvard, as she reported--Yale. I guess knowing one school from another doesn't fall in the category of scientific literacy, though.


Pretty darned thin documentation (I'd have liked to have seen the study itself or at least the abstract), so I can't get excited OR even give it any credibility, especially since we know that the less educated you are the greater your tendency to identify as Republican.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It now seems that that "crappy" health insurance policy you had before is good enough for Obamacare after all. The WH is urging insurers to offer a bare bones catastrophic coverage plan to those that have had cancelled policies. Will they ever stop confusing everybody? Probably not, it does seem to take away from all the problems and non-fixes. WH was unable to pull back and admit all the problems with Obamacare and set about fixing them, but instead chose to go ahead with Obamacare and the government shutdown. They certainly wouldn't be in this world of hurt if they did.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> National Science Foundation is the source.


In other words "you got nothin'". You do realize that there was already a book written by a Harvard staff person who wrote about actual relationships with Tea Party folks, right?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Pretty darned thin documentation (I'd have liked to have seen the study itself or at least the abstract), so I can't get excited OR even give it any credibility, especially since we know that the less educated you are the greater your tendency to identify as Republican.


Any other time they would be slamming lawyers, now one is fit to carry out scientific procedures.
Thanks, though, for digging it up.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again. This "re-living" can also take the form of dreams in which memories and feelings of what happened are repeated, and even hallucination.
> 
> The term can also be used to cover the repetition of behaviour or life patterns more broadly: a "key component in Freud's understanding of mental life, 'repetition compulsion'...describes the pattern whereby people endlessly repeat patterns of behaviour which were difficult or distressing in earlier life."(1)
> 
> ...


 (Edited to make the quote box show up - I replaced the square brackets around "1" with parentheses.)

I just wanted to see whether you'd copy-and-paste again, which you did. Show me where I'm destructive, pathetic, and sadistic and I'll grant you the other two.

Do you think you're all sweetness and light? You go around pretending to know what other people are thinking and feeling, when I wonder whether you really know what you're thinking and feeling. Do you have any credentials for doing psychotherapy, or is this your way of insulting people while pretending to be so sweet?

As for "a behavior here that was distressing in my earlier life," I would wonder why you're so terrified of Mr. and Mrs. Obama. Were you beaten up by black kids in the playground? Or was there some other encounter that you found especially painful?

And as long as I have your attention: I doubt that Michele Obama is "rolling in our money," unless you had to pay tax on your two best-selling books and your Nobel Prize. That's where the Obamas' money came from.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Yes....we have, and were told by our state's attorney general that it is a city issue and to go back to our city council. As a matter of fact, just yesterday the City had a unscheduled meeting, and decided to take a half cent tax that had originally been voted in for something else, & will use it for a building that we had voted down. As it is now.... we pay 7.5 % sales tax. They've been tacking on these half cent sales taxes since the 1970's. And always promising that it will last only 5 yrs. Then they're extended forever. And it seems we can't do anything about it. And don't get me started on their abuse of the eminent domain law.


I don't know where you live, but it's someplace where the pols have everything sewn up. It must be very frustrating to deal with people who ignore their own populace. If crime is involved, maybe a newspaper could look into it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> We always know when you get on KP. The whole discussion takes a nose dive. This is something you are very consistent in doing. One line answers, with a zing thrown in at times or thumbs up smilies. At least it allows us the ability to scroll past and not waste our time. This post being an exception.


I love her one-line answers and zing. If you could relax a little, maybe you'd enjoy them, too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not around here. You probably won't believe it but I'm polite normally. Oh well, it's nice to get it out of my system. It's rather like an actor playing a wicked part.



Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: Can't help yourself from being nasty.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> If LOL is Lady Of the Lake, I couldn't find anything like that in the last 7 days. So -- what article, please?


LOL is LovetheLake for people who have reading problems. It works just as well as LTL would.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would also say that President Obama would acknowledge that he received help over the years....loans, grants, encouragement. He always extends a hand when he can.




Knitry said:


> Now WHERE do you get such an idea -- that he doesn't believe others can do the same thing? He most certainly does. It's a lie, what you believe. Seriously, where did you get such an idea?? I'd really like to know.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I did not see the broadcast you refer to. It's nice to see some empathy. Thank you.

Personally I feel they both feel the constant attacks and threats. I'm sure we'll never know the sources of them all, but I'm just as sure that they exist.



theyarnlady said:


> I don't know if any of you saw the picture of Mrs. Obama the other day.
> 
> She was getting ready to give do a commerical for tv and radio to ask others to sign up for ACA and to ask them to tell others to sign up for ACA during the holiday's.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah the right is back. Wrong, as always, and without understanding.



Lukelucy said:


> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think this is it:
> 
> http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/
> 
> Not Harvard, as she reported--Yale. I guess knowing one school from another doesn't fall in the category of scientific literacy, though.


Couldn't you find a more objective source? This one is a very right-leaning site supported by essentially one person. I'll do a search and see whether anyone who's really independent says anything about it. I don't trust IJReview's "facts."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Never mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


He may be (in fact, is) a liar, but I doubt that he's the "biggest liar in the US." Rush Limbaugh is much bigger than him.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Tea Party uses common sense, something the rest of the world seems not to have.
> 
> :thumbup:


You seriously think "the rest of the world" outside the Tea Party has no common sense? Are you a TP member? (Because you know how much regard I have for your common sense, as well as your truth-telling.)


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

If Michelle Obama is so bright, and she and her hubby are such great partners, then she was part of the decision of him running for president. That being said, she would know that her life would no longer be her own, and still she chose to become First Lady. So if she gets criticism, that could be expected and not a surprise. Guess she will just have to deal with it or leave the WH. Her choice.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lucy, I have no idea what your life has been like.

I do know that you have no concept of logic or truth. You repeat lies and exaggerations even after I beg "no more."

I am only reading these terms as a layperson. Sounds like it fits to me, much more than most of your political thoughts (rumors repeated as truth although they come from anonymous blogs.)



Lukelucy said:


> Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again. This "re-living" can also take the form of dreams in which memories and feelings of what happened are repeated, and even hallucination.
> 
> The term can also be used to cover the repetition of behaviour or life patterns more broadly: a "key component in Freud's understanding of mental life, 'repetition compulsion'...describes the pattern whereby people endlessly repeat patterns of behaviour which were difficult or distressing in earlier life."[1]
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> She doesn't:
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4498633&t=222136
> 
> I wish your moral code included not so willingly buying into the lies about the Obamas, and Democrats in general. There are things about them you could reasonably and legitimately criticize. You don't need to traffic in lies.


I think she does need those lies in order to fight off anxiety. More than anyone else here, she seems to be terrified of the Obamas.

And where's that moral code you refer to?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't understand what you are inferring. Please clarify.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Wonder why did person got suspended? Never mind I think I know. :shock:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


Ha - never thought about Mrs. having to live with that title he was just awarded! Yep, she definitely is ticked off.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Where in the world do you get the idea that I ever thought that money makes one happy? Huh? I have never stated that. Are you twisting the facts again?


I think Rocky was referring to this post of yours.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Lukelucy wrote:
Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.
*************************************************************************************************
Do you see why she would think you were saying that money makes the First Lady happy. Who's twisting facts? I'd say you're trying in your own pitiful way.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If Michelle Obama is so bright, and she and her hubby are such great partners, then she was part of the decision of him running for president. That being said, she would know that her life would no longer be her own, and still she chose to become First Lady. So if she gets criticism, that could be expected and not a surprise. Guess she will just have to deal with it or leave the WH. Her choice.


 or leave him!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> LOL is LovetheLake for people who have reading problems. It works just as well as LTL would.


ROFL.

Unfortunately, , clearly I'm one of those with reading problems as well.

In all honesty, I have a bad habit of not paying enough attention to people;s screen names and who says what. I knew I was at risk on that one, but lapsed into "too lazy" to look it up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your friend lukelucy is calling you. Maybe you can cook up something together. I doubt many will believe you, but you never know.



soloweygirl said:


> Man, can you ever make things up to suit your needs. I have not defended or criticized ANYONE'S religious statements, on either side. I did correct Huckleberry when she said I was a Christian and began her nasty comment. The only other comment I have made about religion, if you want to count it, was that I would appreciate it if someone wanted to pray for me (for whatever reason) as I would consider that an act of kindness by that individual. That is the extent into my delving into religion on this forum. Go ahead and make things up if that's what you need to make your point.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe we do have something in common. I have no idea what you're talking about.



soloweygirl said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If Michelle Obama is so bright, and she and her hubby are such great partners, then she was part of the decision of him running for president. That being said, she would know that her life would no longer be her own, and still she chose to become First Lady. So if she gets criticism, that could be expected and not a surprise. Guess she will just have to deal with it or leave the WH. Her choice.


1) I don't know whether you have a husband, but it's not unusual for a woman to fit in with her husband's plans, whether she likes them or not.

2)The "criticism" the right gives Obama is really abuse. Nobody could have expected the extent of the disrespect given not just to the family (incl. the children) but to the Office of the President itself. It's been over the top since his first day in office. She's been dealing with it a lot better than most would have.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huh?



soloweygirl said:


> And again you would be wrong. At this point we expect nothing less and definitely nothing more.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think Rocky was referring to this post of yours.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Lukelucy wrote:
> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.
> ...


I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There is no point.



Jokim said:


> :thumbup: LL, don't fret. In their answers, they are just proving your original point.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since you are always twisted, I will take this as a feeble attempt at a compliment. Style changes with the situation.



soloweygirl said:


> We always know when you get on KP. The whole discussion takes a nose dive. This is something you are very consistent in doing. One line answers, with a zing thrown in at times or thumbs up smilies. At least it allows us the ability to scroll past and not waste our time. This post being an exception.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh come on. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't see that one coming.

I think the rightie tighties prefer long cut and paste quotes from obscure blogs. I can't play that game. Sarcasm fits better for me.



susanmos2000 said:


> I suspect LL believes that the Obamas (and "those" people) get their jollies not from the money but from the act of stealing it from good hard-working Christian folk--like her, KPG, and the rest of the "quality". :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Jelun. I'll watch for an answer.



jelun2 said:


> I have to ask, what did damemary do besides note that you are doing what you do?
> How is that nasty?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


No it isn't. It's a rumor, a Fox fact, but not an actual fact, as people have tried to show you (did you understand what Knitry meant when she addressed the following message to you?):



Knitry said:


> She doesn't (spend taxpayer money for frivolous trips):
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4498633&t=222136
> 
> I wish your moral code included not so willingly buying into the lies about the Obamas, and Democrats in general. There are things about them you could reasonably and legitimately criticize. You don't need to traffic in lies.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That's a funny kind of club just last night you posted a bunch of screen shots and archived statements of comments. I think that you spend hours pouring over the statements of those who are superior to you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe someone decided you can't cure stupid.



soloweygirl said:


> It now seems that that "crappy" health insurance policy you had before is good enough for Obamacare after all. The WH is urging insurers to offer a bare bones catastrophic coverage plan to those that have had cancelled policies. Will they ever stop confusing everybody? Probably not, it does seem to take away from all the problems and non-fixes. WH was unable to pull back and admit all the problems with Obamacare and set about fixing them, but instead chose to go ahead with Obamacare and the government shutdown. They certainly wouldn't be in this world of hurt if they did.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If Michelle Obama is so bright, and she and her hubby are such great partners, then she was part of the decision of him running for president. That being said, she would know that her life would no longer be her own, and still she chose to become First Lady. So if she gets criticism, that could be expected and not a surprise. Guess she will just have to deal with it or leave the WH. Her choice.


Wow. I am so glad you posted this -- it gives me such a clear and fascinating (if somewhat horrifying) look into the mental machinations someone on the right goes through to justify their general lack of compassion and general disdain for certain others. And what a quick and smooth transition it is to scapegoating and blaming the victim.

Someone noted that Michelle Obama looked sad. I and others suggested she might not be, really, but that the job could weigh heavily sometimes. Someone mentioned that they get a lot of criticism and that might be difficult in general.

There is NO proof, and no REAL indication that the photo taken of her in what was probably an unguarded moment was due to her feeling overburdened by criticism. You might be right, but you just as easily could be wrong.

But now -- suddenly, SHE is as responsible as he was for choosing to run for President (okay, I'm sure she was part of the decision-making process), and that must mean "she had to have known her life wouldn't be her own," that she should've expected criticism so if she's unhappy, SHE is responsible for that. So she should STFU or get out of town.

All because someone felt a single photo had her looking sad, reason / cause unknown.

FWIW, while I'm not a huge fan of Michelle Obama's, though don't have any specific criticisms of her, my impression of her is that she was very well aware of what life would be like in the role of First Lady and was willing to endure it, that she feels privileged to be there and tries to do an honorable and reputable job of it while still keeping a mostly low profile (being "mom in chief" more than anything).

I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think this is it:
> 
> http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/
> 
> Not Harvard, as she reported--Yale. I guess knowing one school from another doesn't fall in the category of scientific literacy, though.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I bet there's more to the story.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow Knittry, that is powerful stuff. Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: ROFL


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Never mind.


I'm sorry, Susan. I guess I came on stronger than I should have. At least you bothered to find the link; I still haven't even tried.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



Poor Purl said:


> I love her one-line answers and zing. If you could relax a little, maybe you'd enjoy them, too.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


Not even a very GOOD attempt to wiggle out of your own words. The distinction you seem to be trying to make really won't work.

What you actually said about Michelle Obama was: *She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.*

Most people would equate HAVING FUN spending money (especially if not your own) with at least interim happiness. In fact, the connection is so strong that had you not intended to mean exactly that, you'd have said something different, such as: "She's spending our money but NOT having any fun doing so."

Now -- how about some validation or documentation for how much money of OURS she's spending?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Not even a very GOOD attempt to wiggle out of your own words. The distinction you seem to be trying to make really won't work.
> 
> What you actually said about Michelle Obama was: *She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.*
> 
> ...


Good luck on getting that validation or documentation!!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Not even a very GOOD attempt to wiggle out of your own words. The distinction you seem to be trying to make really won't work.
> 
> What you actually said about Michelle Obama was: *She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.*
> 
> ...


There are many more:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/12/michelle-obamas-pricey-vacation-wardrobe/

http://www.examiner.com/article/michelle-obama-spending-sprees-with-taxpayer-money-continue

http://www.nosmokeblown.com/?tag=obama-lavish-lifestyle

http://www.nosmokeblown.com/?tag=obama-lavish-lifestyle

http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/12/13/michelle-obama-uses-soldiers-sacrifice-to-excuse-her-own-lavish-spending/

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/301790/big-spending-obamas-jim-geraghty


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Wow. I am so glad you posted this -- it gives me such a clear and fascinating (if somewhat horrifying) look into the mental machinations someone on the right goes through to justify their general lack of compassion and general disdain for certain others. And what a quick and smooth transition it is to scapegoating and blaming the victim.
> 
> Someone noted that Michelle Obama looked sad. I and others suggested she might not be, really, but that the job could weigh heavily sometimes. Someone mentioned that they get a lot of criticism and that might be difficult in general.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree 100%. All Presidents are targets for assassination. How many have left office that way? Add the extraordinary level of hatred that a black family in the White House attracts and you have the Secret Service looking worse than you describe Michelle Obama. Three more years.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There are many more:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/12/michelle-obamas-pricey-vacation-wardrobe/
> 
> ...


Also, I have it from the chef where BO stayed that he had to import cheeses, whatever - all the food he ate - from places in the country so that he would have the best of what there was. He would not settle for just what the house had to offer. The food had to come from wherever he wanted. That is pathetic.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pigs will fly. Hell freezes over.........The rule is NEVER APOLOGIZE.



Cindy S said:


> Good luck on getting that validation or documentation!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sorry, Susan. I guess I came on stronger than I should have. At least you bothered to find the link; I still haven't even tried.


No worries, I wasn't commenting on anything you wrote...just a sarcastic remark about LTL's name that I had second thoughts about posting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

More rumor. What chef? Where? I'm inclined to think it is one more Urban Legend.....like the couple in the lover's land and the hook.



Lukelucy said:


> Also, I have it from the chef where BO stayed that he had to import cheeses, whatever - all the food he ate - from places in the country so that he would have the best of what there was. He would not settle for just what the house had to offer. The food had to come from wherever he wanted. That is pathetic.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> There are many more:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/12/michelle-obamas-pricey-vacation-wardrobe/
> 
> ...


Even these articles indicate they are spending their own money, why is that our business?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Also, I have it from the chef where BO stayed that he had to import cheeses, whatever - all the food he ate - from places in the country so that he would have the best of what there was. He would not settle for just what the house had to offer. The food had to come from wherever he wanted. That is pathetic.


Yes--why does he even need a chef when there's a KFC in virtually every city? No doubt you feel that's sufficient.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> More rumor. What chef? Where? I'm inclined to think it is one more Urban Legend.....like the couple in the lover's land and the hook.


This is my last reply and the last time I will read a post from you.

You must be crazy to think that I would incriminate anyone by posting to you. What I wrote is true. If you don't like it, who cares?

I am done with you. Leave me alone.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

part quote"
I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.[/quote]

Wow that was a record for playing the race card.

I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.

Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think I've heard that before.



Lukelucy said:


> This is my last reply and the last time I will read a post from you.
> 
> You must be crazy to think that I would incriminate anyone by posting to you. What I wrote is true. If you don't like it, who cares?
> 
> I am done with you. Leave me alone.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The fact that you don't see it only confirms the truth in it. There is no other possible explanation for the hatred and vitriol hurled at President and Mrs. Obama.



lovethelake said:


> part quote"
> I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.


Wow that was a record for playing the race card.

I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.

Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.[/quote]


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please don't feel sorry for Michelle Obama.... She doesn't need it! She's rolling in our money and having fun with it.


There is a difference between feeling sorry for and having compassion for another human being. You, LL have neither.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> There is a difference between feeling sorry for and having compassion for another human being. You, LL have neither.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Very precise.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> part quote"
> I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.


Wow that was a record for playing the race card.

I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.

Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.[/quote]

LovetheLake, I want to ask for your forgiveness as again I put your initial's wrong. Know how much you love the lake but always forget and think Love Of Lake. 
PP I do not find what you post funny at all.

Thanks for the article LovetheLake, and want to wish you a very Blessed Christmas. :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Very important message Knitry. I just wish the right would pay attention to it. You can give proof that something was a lie and they still choose to believe it and repeat it time and time again. They just don't care if they tell lies I guess.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Repetition compulsion is a psychological phenomenon in which a person repeats a traumatic event or its circumstances over and over again. This includes reenacting the event or putting oneself in situations where the event is likely to happen again. This "re-living" can also take the form of dreams in which memories and feelings of what happened are repeated, and even hallucination.
> 
> The term can also be used to cover the repetition of behaviour or life patterns more broadly: a "key component in Freud's understanding of mental life, 'repetition compulsion'...describes the pattern whereby people endlessly repeat patterns of behaviour which were difficult or distressing in earlier life."[1]
> 
> ...


Even when the resource is Wikipedia you are supposed to credit them when you copy verbatim.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--why does he even need a chef when there's a KFC in virtually every city? No doubt you feel that's sufficient.


Pretty funny isn't it that a CHEF of a resort, since that is where the Obamas stay, would think it was worth mentioning and wouldn't be embarassed by saying that he had to "import" cheeses?
The places that the Obamas vacation in are quite expensive, I cannot imagine that they don't ordinarily supply the best of everything.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> This is my last reply and the last time I will read a post from you.
> 
> You must be crazy to think that I would incriminate anyone by posting to you. What I wrote is true. If you don't like it, who cares?
> 
> I am done with you. Leave me alone.


Oh, come on, you live for this drama!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Oh, come on, you live for this drama!!!


Only when she can hide behind her cronies, I'm afraid.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There are many more:


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2011/12/michelle-obamas-pricey-vacation-wardrobe/

Nary a word accusing her of using taxpayer money for said wardrobe, so why are you implying she does? Beyond that, this is just sexist - shaming her for buying a wardrobe beyond the reach of unemployed Americans. She has a right to spend money they have - and NOT be criticized for it. When was Laura Bush ever criticized for the cost of her wardrobe? She hardly wore Target or WalMart couture.

http://www.examiner.com/article/michelle-obama-spending-sprees-with-taxpayer-money-continue

This article is based on what a "top source" told the National Enquirer. Seriously????

http://www.nosmokeblown.com/?tag=obama-lavish-lifestyle

Your regular rightwing, gossipy, sexist blog. Nothing more. No documentation that anything was improperly spent of taxpayer money. Not at all credible.

http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/12/13/michelle-obama-uses-soldiers-sacrifice-to-excuse-her-own-lavish-spending/

This is the self-same article as the previous.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/301790/big-spending-obamas-jim-geraghty

There's that "Bo as a kind of first family Christmas canine symbol" snark again. Saw that in one of the other links -- this one has no actual reporting either.

So, thanks for providing some links, but basically, you got nothin'. Sorry.

Look, I don't know if Michelle is a spendthrift or not. I do know that the White House is big and that it gets totally decorated for Christmas and that volunteers have always been needed in years past. (Or would you prefer they be hired for the job and paid by the government in The People's House?) But she gets to spend what she gets to spend of her own money and the money allocated to be spent in and on the White House. Those are not discretionary expenditures -- they get an allowance for that, period.

These criticisms are, as I said, sexist and also just mean-spirited.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> There is a difference between feeling sorry for and having compassion for another human being. You, LL have neither.


Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.

I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.
> 
> I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do.


Toddle off, little girl. It's clearly past your bedtime.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Toddle off, little girl. It's clearly past your bedtime.


Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


Really? Obviously it wasn't LL, the person who just wrote this:

"Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.

I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do."


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.
> 
> I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do.


Talking to that mirror again?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> *Knitry wrote:* _I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome._
> 
> Wow that was a record for playing the race card.
> 
> ...


Another utterly fascinating response.

I would encourage you to reread my comment. There was NOTHING in it about you, or anyone on this site. I wasn't even thinking about it. I was, instead, thinking about the FACT -- per the Secret Service -- that there have been more threats against Obama's life than any other President, and that many/most/all (whatever?) the threats are racially based.



> US President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a new book.
> 
> Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, author of In the President's Secret Service.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html


THAT is not playing the race card. But your response is -- well, very curious.

One of the hallmarks of racism is resentment and active pushback when those who are affected by racism or those who are concerned about racism broach the subject. It's as if they want to say to you, "How dare you notice my obvious racism?? How DARE you mention it?! How DARE you call me out on it?"

And to address your other issue -- one of the reasons we accuse your side of racism is because the hatred and resentment is just totally unreasonable -- over the top, unjustified and unjustifiable EXCEPT for what could be explained by racism. Too, were you to actually argue against his policies (with accurate information as opposed to lies), that would be another thing.

Neal Boortz, rightwing talk show host from Atlanta, used to spew the most racist stuff you can imagine. Oh, he didn't use the "n" word, but he deftly and repeatedly employed racial stereotypes pretty much daily. Whenever challenged, he cleverly -- but dishonestly -- would say, "Racism is the belief that one race is inferior to another. When have I EVER said I thought I as a white man am superior to blacks or Hispanics?"

You don't ever have to SAY that to BE that. You speak of another race contemptuously, using unflattering and untrue stereotypes and stereotypical images, delight in reading news items showing members of other races at their worst and hardly ever finding any positive news stories or people to laud (well, except for Clarence Thomas).

I believe he knew very well that he was lying -- but if he didn't, it didn't matter. Racism isn't just the dictionary definition (which was what he was quoting), it's the whole system of oppression that flows from that. And no one EVER even has to THINK about the dictionary definition to be rabidly, irredeemably racist.

Here's a really good example, from Mr. Duck Dynasty himself, a statement that is racist to the core:



> _"I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field. ... They're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' -- not a word!... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues."_


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

YOU wouldn't......


Lukelucy said:


> I just do not see that.


 :roll:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Would you please PROVE to me that Michelle Obama is spending OUR money? If you are saying that...then every First Lady since George Washington has been skimming money from the tax paying people....Again......prove it.


Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, Judicial Watch isn't exactly your well-respected most objective news source either. I see this as mainly an attempt to take something quite routine, even necessar, and make it sound nefarious.



joeysomma said:


> Michelle Obama's Africa Trip Cost More Than $424,142
> 
> _Also, *for security reasons Mrs. Obama must fly on military aircraft." Also, during her good-will mission, the first lady attended five to seven official events daily.*
> 
> ...


Yeah, no matter what they do, even if they stay right there at home, it will involve Secret Service costs. And they have to fly on military aircraft.

And ya know what? I think they are also entitled to a bit of a life. She gets NOTHING in remuneration for any official duties, ever, and now Republicans want to begrudge her a working vacation? Let them show some remorse for the multi-billion dollars wasted in the government shutdown and other Republican follies, and then maybe I'll be sympathetic to their whines about Mrs. Obama.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Even when the resource is Wikipedia you are supposed to credit them when you copy verbatim.


Absolutely -- for 2 reasons. First, it's the right thing to do -- good scholarship and for those who care nothing about that, we can call it good manners. Two, it allows those who want more information an opportunity to get it. Again, good manners.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> She has a set amount of money for her to spend just because she is First Lady. It comes from a special fund. That info is from one of the first tax returns that was put online.


Yes, that's for EXPENSES, it's not salary. SHE gets no remuneration for her official duties, of which there are quite a few.

Wikipedia:


> The position of the First Lady is not an elected one, carries no official duties, *and receives no salary.* Nonetheless, first ladies have held a highly visible position in U.S. government. The role of the First Lady has evolved over the centuries. She is, first and foremost, the hostess of the White House. She organizes and attends official ceremonies and functions of state either along with, or in place of, the president.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lady_of_the_United_States#Role


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Yes, that's for EXPENSES, it's not salary. SHE gets no remuneration for her official duties, of which there are quite a few.


Just makes you shake your head doesn't it that people don't know this stuff

:roll: :roll:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Just makes you shake your head doesn't it that people don't know this stuff
> 
> :roll: :roll:


Yep.

LOL. Reminds me of a great quote, about ignorance:

_It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. - Mark Twain_


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I almost forgot I wanted to post this:



> *My Republican Grandfather Is At It Again!*
> Watching the President now, he just said "I think the Republicans really messed up this health care debate...they should be trying to fix it instead of blaming the President!"
> 
> This is a guy who has voted Republican since Nixon, and used to hate Pres. Obama. His attitude changed back in October when he found out he would benefit under "Obamacare"! He was also really critical of the GOP during the government shutdown.
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024205428


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just do not see that.


Then you must be blind.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A Harvard law professor received a 400K grant from the National Science Foundation to study members of the Tea Party. The professor found that TP members had a better performance on cognitive reasoning tests and they were better at scientific comprehension than non TP members. The test scores increased with ones strength of identification to the TP. The professor found the results surprising and predicted the "cognitive scores would be negatively correlated with right wing ideology".HIs study also revealed that "liberals and conservatives were uniformly prone to ideologically motivated reasoning".


I don't think anyone in the tea Party is capable of thinking, at all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Even when the resource is Wikipedia you are supposed to credit them when you copy verbatim.


There are two main reasons that lukelucy's cut and paste compulsion bothers me so much.

1. There is generally no source listed for the 'information.'

2. There is no rationale given; no context. Just 'somebody's' ideas from 'somewhere' with no personal thoughts.

Makin me quazy (-ier?)


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It now seems that that "crappy" health insurance policy you had before is good enough for Obamacare after all. The WH is urging insurers to offer a bare bones catastrophic coverage plan to those that have had cancelled policies. Will they ever stop confusing everybody? Probably not, it does seem to take away from all the problems and non-fixes. WH was unable to pull back and admit all the problems with Obamacare and set about fixing them, but instead chose to go ahead with Obamacare and the government shutdown. They certainly wouldn't be in this world of hurt if they did.


Even that bare bones policy is better than any of the old crappy policies.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Pretty funny isn't it that a CHEF of a resort, since that is where the Obamas stay, would think it was worth mentioning and wouldn't be embarassed by saying that he had to "import" cheeses?
> The places that the Obamas vacation in are quite expensive, I cannot imagine that they don't ordinarily supply the best of everything.


It makes perfect sense, but it's just not a good story.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Oh, come on, you live for this drama!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't see you tuning any of us out lucy. Keep whining, but you're receiving no sympathy.



Lukelucy said:


> Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.
> 
> I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No! Do tell. Who? Why? Or is this all a big secret? (You've been begging for someone to ask all day.)



Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not for expenses. It is for her to spend anyway she wants, just because she is the First Lady. Sort of sounds like a salary.


Not taxpayer money. Why don't you share your link for this source of extra spending money???


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think she doesn't have any reason to be happy. they say, money can't buy you happiness. So being First Lady doesn't guarantee happiness either. Finding out your husband is the biggest liar in the US, would not make her happy. I would rather be a poor nobody then first lady.


And you are.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


These libs don't understand words LL or the difference between happy and fun. Remember all they understand is bitterness and dread.

You are a joyful person, and I'm pleased to have made your e-cquaintance.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO one of the reasons this has gotten out of hand is the fact that no one knows the rules, if there are any rules. Any ideas?

Stalking, threats? No. Lies? No. What is it?



susanmos2000 said:


> Really? Obviously it wasn't LL, the person who just wrote this:
> 
> "Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.
> 
> I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what is your point?



joeysomma said:


> She has a set amount of money for her to spend just because she is First Lady. It comes from a special fund. That info is from one of the first tax returns that was put online.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> These libs don't understand words LL or the difference between happy and fun. Remember all they understand is bitterness and dread.
> 
> You are a joyful person, and I'm pleased to have made your e-cquaintance.


KPG,
Thank you. I feel the same way.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And even when you hit them over the head with the information, they still don't get it and continue arguing.


Cindy S said:


> Just makes you shake your head doesn't it that people don't know this stuff
> 
> :roll: :roll:


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And a leopard changes his spots. Smart guy.



Knitry said:


> I almost forgot I wanted to post this:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And/or stubborn.



rocky1991 said:


> Then you must be blind.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This is my last reply and the last time I will read a post from you.
> 
> You must be crazy to think that I would incriminate anyone by posting to you. What I wrote is true. If you don't like it, who cares?
> 
> I am done with you. Leave me alone.


Smart move, LL! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Smart move, LL! :thumbup: :thumbup:


I appreciate you Jokim!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


OUR money? What do you mean? The President gets a salary. Does Michelle Obama get a salary too?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But you can't cure stupid, so keep crappy if it makes you happy.

Anyone want to bet someday someone will complain about it?



rocky1991 said:


> Even that bare bones policy is better than any of the old crappy policies.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Wow that was a record for playing the race card.
> 
> I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.
> 
> Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.


They play the race card again and again because they cannot refute the horrible failure 90% of his policies have been. I don't care if the man has polka-dots, a failed idea or policy is a failed idea or policy. So instead of working towards a solution and resolution of a failed policy, the Dems and Libs place blame based on skin color. The Dems/Libs are the very definition, and _only_ definition of a racist; to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> No! Do tell. Who? Why? Or is this all a big secret? (You've been begging for someone to ask all day.)


One of the righties, I suspect. They have seemed on edge today.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Not taxpayer money. Why don't you share your link for this source of extra spending money???


I believe--no, KNOW--she hasn't a clue. But there is this (from Wikipedia):

The Henry G. Freeman Jr. Pin Money Fund, is the operating name of an annuity fund of the Henry G. Freeman Jr. Trust, benefiting first ladies of the United States. Begun in 1912, as part of the will of Henry G. Freeman Jr., a prominent Philadelphia real estate developer.
Freeman believed that the U.S president was paid a "miserable pittance", and that a way of increasing his income while avoiding the appearance of political gifts was to institute an annuity to be paid "to the lady termed the first lady in the land; that is, the President of the United States [sic] wife, or anyone representing the president as such, should he not be married or should she die during his administration." Freeman's will specified that the money be for the first lady's "own and absolute use" and the payments "shall continue in force as long as this glorious government exists."
The fund became active in November 1989 during the administration of George H.W. Bush, but due to a court dispute the first payments were not made until December 1992. Barbara Bush received US $36,000.00 retroactively and donated a portion to her charity work, and spent an unspecified amount doing "something nice for my grandchildren." First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and First Lady Laura Bush have donated the payments to charity. The income is taxable, and the fund is overseen by Wachovia Trust Services.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to make a try at explaining this. Perhaps you have never had a job where you filed an Expense Report.

Expenses are not income to you because they are a cost of doing business to your employer. Example, your employer assigns you to entertain a client with lunch or a golf match. It is different for accounting purposes.

Aren't you supposed to be the tax guru?



joeysomma said:


> It is not for expenses. It is for her to spend anyway she wants, just because she is the First Lady. Sort of sounds like a salary.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> And you are.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Good one, Rocky.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wish the goober-smooching would go elsewhere.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Just makes you shake your head doesn't it that people don't know this stuff
> 
> :roll: :roll:


I don't believe that they don't know it. 
I believe that they say it thinking that others may not know it, it is called propaganda. There is just no way that people who spend as much time combing sites, even right wing sites, can miss such basic info. After all, when George W. was POTUS there were people who complained of his many trips to TX the cost of trips came up. They must have argued that point wherever they were then.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I wish the goober-smooching would go elsewhere.


Agree--time for them to pack away the mistletoe.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have already told you it was on one of the first tax returns they put online. There was an explanation of the amounts that were put on the tax form. Now that was almost 5 years ago. Good luck hunting.


Almost 5 years ago?
Do you really think that she started claiming it before she was FLOTUS?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have already told you it was on one of the first tax returns they put online. There was an explanation of the amounts that were put on the tax form. Now that was almost 5 years ago. Good luck hunting.


Short version: "Don't have a link"


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


Well well. I guess Admin does pay attention once in a while. I didn't see nastiness that was any worse than any other day.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Do you know the meaning of almost?


Yes, I certainly do. It seems that you do not, however. Mrs. Obama has been First Lady for almost five years. Barack Obama took office in January of 2009. It is ALMOST January of 2014. 
You do the math.

Why don't you hunt up Laura Bush' tax return for 2008?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And those are the most dangerous type to have in charge of anything!


rocky1991 said:


> I don't think anyone in the tea Party is capable of thinking, at all.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe so many people disagree with you because you call them Obamacultists! Not to mention, you are so darn disagreeable....


lovethelake said:


> part quote"
> I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.


Wow that was a record for playing the race card.

I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.

Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.[/quote]


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, they must have something going for them, as they used the Republican's like puppets...


joeysomma said:


> The Tea Party uses common sense, something the rest of the world seems not to have.
> 
> :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You are so gullible....


Lukelucy said:


> I appreciate you Jokim!


 :roll:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, they must have something going for them, as they used the Republican's like puppets...


Was it common sense that shut own the government? But that only cost this country $24 billion.Sso I guess you could say it was worth it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh, I don't feel that way......I believe you aren't choosy about who your are prejudiced against.....Which is pretty much everyone, except those who believe in your skewed way of thinking. You seem to bring up racism more than most. I wonder why?? Humm......


knitpresentgifts said:


> They play the race card again and again because they cannot refute the horrible failure 90% of his policies have been. I don't care if the man has polka-dots, a failed idea or policy is a failed idea or policy. So instead of working towards a solution and resolution of a failed policy, the Dems and Libs place blame based on skin color. The Dems/Libs are the very definition, and _only_ definition of a racist; to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes......very costly.....but the Tea Party didn't care.....they had the Republicans doing their dirty work for them. And when all is said and done.....The Republicans will be the ones to stand up and take the blame...The Tea Party is shrewd, the Republicans.....not so much.


rocky1991 said:


> Was it common sense that shut own the government? But that only cost this country $24 billion.Sso I guess you could say it was worth it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> A Harvard law professor received a 400K grant from the National Science Foundation to study members of the Tea Party. The professor found that TP members had a better performance on cognitive reasoning tests and they were better at scientific comprehension than non TP members. The test scores increased with ones strength of identification to the TP. The professor found the results surprising and predicted the "cognitive scores would be negatively correlated with right wing ideology".HIs study also revealed that "liberals and conservatives were uniformly prone to ideologically motivated reasoning".


You might not want to use the initials TP for the Teahaddists. Lots of people mean "toilet paper" when they say "TP".


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They play the race card again and again because they cannot refute the horrible failure 90% of his policies have been. I don't care if the man has polka-dots, a failed idea or policy is a failed idea or policy. So instead of working towards a solution and resolution of a failed policy, the Dems and Libs place blame based on skin color. The Dems/Libs are the very definition, and _only_ definition of a racist; to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim.


You're right, KPG!
:thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I appreciate you Jokim!


LL, you live rent free in their minds and they hate it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Pigs will fly. Hell freezes over.........The rule is NEVER APOLOGIZE.


I kinda like to take that extra step, and never explain, either (at least not to the obvious fools...)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The fact that you don't see it only confirms the truth in it. There is no other possible explanation for the hatred and vitriol hurled at President and Mrs. Obama.


For the Confederate flag waved in his face, for the questioning of his birth certificate over and over again - what other President has had to put up with this much crap? Neither of those examples has had anything to do with his policies. They have plenty to do with wanting to show him up for being so uppity.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Very important message Knitry. I just wish the right would pay attention to it. You can give proof that something was a lie and they still choose to believe it and repeat it time and time again. They just don't care if they tell lies I guess.


But I thought lying was a sin. How could they not care, all those pious right-thinking , um, liars?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But I thought lying was a sin. How could they not care, all those pious right-thinking , um, liars?


The anti-Obama contingent considers itself to be on wartime footing and, like the creators of those awful WW2 propaganda cartoons, doesn't care about accuracy or truth as long as it gets the job done.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Just the fact that you wrote the above says that you have no compassion for another human being. You are an evil, nasty person. Thank goodness I can tune you out. You have no feeling for anyone and everything. You are selfish, cruel, and pathetic. I do not think you are human. You are a low-life. That is clear as day.
> 
> I view you as a very ugly person. You must be to do what you do.


 How could NJG's short message, "There is a difference between feeling sorry for and having compassion for another human being. You, LL have neither" call for such a vitriolic response from you?

Look at what you call her in a single message: 1,2) an evil, nasty person; 3) You have no feeling for anyone and everything; 4, 5, 6) selfish, cruel, and pathetic; 7) I do not think you are human; 8) a low-life; 9) a very ugly person. All of this because she pointed out, with good reason, that you have no compassion and you don't feel sorry for other people. What happened to you in your life that you would feel the need to strike out like that?

This is not just another example of your usual unqualified and inaccurate psychoanalysis. Your description of her is reads like a description of yourself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Toddle off, little girl. It's clearly past your bedtime.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Tea Party.........toilet paper.......not much diff between the two.....


MaidInBedlam said:


> You might not want to use the initials TP for the Teahaddists. Lots of people mean "toilet paper" when they say "TP".


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Michelle Obama's Africa Trip Cost More Than $424,142
> 
> By Paul Bedard
> October 4, 2011
> ...


The following is just an excerpt; the actual article is a lot longer and there's a link at the end:

*Obama Trip Cost Dwarfed by the Bush Africa Spending Spree*
As conservatives rage about the cost of Obamas Africa trip, it is important to remember that George and Laura Bush made a combined 7 trips to Africa all on the taxpayers dime.

Weve played this game before, but anytime the nations first black president spends more than a dollar, the right wing freaks out about Barack Obama wasting taxpayer dollars. Back in 2011, the right claimed that First Lady Obamas Africa trip would cost taxpayers millions, but even if you use numbers that the White House disagrees with ($424,000), they werent even close.

This time the right has whipped up the fake outrage over a leaked document showing that President Obamas upcoming Africa trip could cost $60-$100 million. What these same people dont tell is that George and Laura Bush loved to go to Africa on the taxpayers dimea lot.

During Bushs second term alone, Laura Bush made five goodwill trips to Africa. President Bush made the trip twice during his presidency. Here is former First Lady Bush at an event the night before their trip in 2008, Tomorrow, President Bush and I leave for what will be my fifth trip to Africa since 2001, and his second trip to Africa since 2001. Ive seen the determination of the people across Africa  and the compassion of the people of the United States of America. Wow, thats a lot of trips to Africa. In 2007, Laura Bush also took her daughters with her, and they went on a safari. You know, the same kind of outing that President Obama just canceled.

Not much was going right for George W. Bush. Even before the economy crashed, his legacy was 9/11, the unpopular Iraq invasion, and Hurricane Katrina. Back in 2003, Bush laid the groundwork for making aid to Africa his legacy. One of the areas where Bush drew praise was that he spent billions of taxpayer dollars on aid to Africa. Its funny how conservatives dont utter a peep about George W. Bush dishing out more than ten times the amount of taxpayer money on aid than Obama will spend on his trip.

Why could the country afford to spend billions of dollars during Bushs no growth economy, but they cant afford to spend at least $60 million for the sitting president to travel today?

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=756_1371341703#bVQEP2XrWcP324LZ.99


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


And how do you know this?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know someone got suspended for talking bad to people last night? She didn't think she was doing anything wrong but someone else did.


Besides, what is "bad" about "Toddle off, little girl. It's clearly past your bedtime"? It sounds kind of motherly to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry

For some reason, the system wouldn't quote your message, which is an extraordinary look at how racism can be obvious yet unperceived by the people who don't want to see it.

Really good.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, is that why Laura Bush always looked so unhappy under that not-quite-believable plastic smile? Now THERE's a First Lady I felt sorry for.


Funny you should mention Laura Bush. I was watching the news today about the "boy with affluenza" and she sprang to mind. She also killed someone in a car accident and never went to jail for it. She ran a stop sign. I guess money buys all justice in Texas.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah Shucks. I was enjoying that. I'm sure they'll do something else funny.



MaidInBedlam said:


> You might not want to use the initials TP for the Teahaddists. Lots of people mean "toilet paper" when they say "TP".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seems that way to me too.



Poor Purl said:


> For the Confederate flag waved in his face, for the questioning of his birth certificate over and over again - what other President has had to put up with this much crap? Neither of those examples has had anything to do with his policies. They have plenty to do with wanting to show him up for being so uppity.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not for expenses. It is for her to spend anyway she wants, just because she is the First Lady. Sort of sounds like a salary.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: . You think she doesn't have her own money? She is a succesful lawyer as she is First Lady. If it isn't government business, the Obama's pay for it. I thought you knew that, joey.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The following is just an excerpt; the actual article is a lot longer and there's a link at the end:
> 
> *Obama Trip Cost Dwarfed by the Bush Africa Spending Spree*
> As conservatives rage about the cost of Obamas Africa trip, it is important to remember that George and Laura Bush made a combined 7 trips to Africa all on the taxpayers dime.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks Purl.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They play the race card again and again because they cannot refute the horrible failure 90% of his policies have been. I don't care if the man has polka-dots, a failed idea or policy is a failed idea or policy. So instead of working towards a solution and resolution of a failed policy, the Dems and Libs place blame based on skin color. The Dems/Libs are the very definition, and _only_ definition of a racist; to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim.


Well, thank you for that very _small_ bit of RW propaganda. Tokyo Rose has nothing on you!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She probably has no idea who Tokyo Rose was..... :lol: But the one big difference between KPG & Tokyo Rose/Iva Toguri......is that KPG spits out propaganda willingly, where as Tokyo Rose had very little choice. She was convicted of treason in the US after the war, and spent 6 yrs in jail. She was pardoned by Gerald Ford in 1976. So even Tokyo Rose was less guilty of wrong doing than KPG is.


BrattyPatty said:


> Well, thank you for that very _small_ bit of RW propaganda. Tokyo Rose has nothing on you!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Tea Party.........toilet paper.......not much diff between the two.....


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She probably has no idea who Tokyo Rose was..... :lol:


She claims to be an expert on the Far East, but I wouldn't doubt it, Nussa.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL, you live rent free in their minds and they hate it.


Yes, rent free and nobody is home upstairs.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> For the Confederate flag waved in his face, for the questioning of his birth certificate over and over again - what other President has had to put up with this much crap? Neither of those examples has had anything to do with his policies. They have plenty to do with wanting to show him up for being so uppity.


I couldn't agree with you more, Purl.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying the money makes her happy. How do I know if it does? However, she is spending a lot of our money. That is a fact.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Prove it!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL, you live rent free in their minds and they hate it.


So she's like a cockroach?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You joined the same club I did! Great minds think alike ...


Yes, they do! Do you 2 rent yours?? You have yet to show us that you have a mind of your own.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny you should mention Laura Bush. I was watching the news today about the "boy with affluenza" and she sprang to mind. She also killed someone in a car accident and never went to jail for it. She ran a stop sign. I guess money buys all justice in Texas.


Wasn't it her boyfriend at the time? Ran right over him.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, thank you for that very _small_ bit of RW propaganda. Tokyo Rose has nothing on you!


Tokyo Rose at least had some charm.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Not sure if it was her boyfriend, but it was a 17 year old classmate named Michael Douglas.
In most cases a driver would be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Not her. No charges of any kind were filed.
Not even a ticket for running the stop sign.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/e98/e1698.htm


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yep!......She obviously had money & the right connections behind her. You or I would have been sentenced to life without parole....


BrattyPatty said:


> Not sure if it was her boyfriend, but it was a 17 year old classmate named Michael Douglas.
> In most cases a driver would be charged with vehicular manslaughter. Not her. No charges of any kind were filed.
> Not even a ticket for running the stop sign.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Yep!......She obviously had money & the right connections behind her. You or I would have been sentenced to life without parole....


That's a fact!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> The fact that you don't see it only confirms the truth in it. There is no other possible explanation for the hatred and vitriol hurled at President and Mrs. Obama.


Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


I guess you haven't noticed, teenagers mock everything. It is what they do. At this point in time, YouTube is the venue for something that needs more than a 5 second loop. 
If you think that the examples you have used are government policy, you have more of a problem than anyone guessed.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I guess you haven't noticed, teenagers mock everything. It is what they do. At this point in time, YouTube is the venue for something that needs more than a 5 second loop.
> If you think that the examples you have used are government policy, you have more of a problem than anyone guessed.


Wow, so nasty early in the morning. The point is that Obama is getting criticized for Obamacare and Michelle for her School Lunch program pretty much across the board. But when the race card is played just shows how desperate the Ocultists are at their feeble attempt to support Obamacare. I mean how flawed is that website? It was down for "scheduled maintenance" for hours just prior to Obama's attempt to tell Americans how good it is. There is no way it was scheduled for maintenance for several hours before a scheduled press conference, in the middle of the day, 3 days before the deadline for signup happens. And since the website has no race, how does criticizing its failure become a racial topic? Isn't it time for the administration to stop blaming the Canadians and take responsibility for its inability to function?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but not going to happen. Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video, .....


Wrong again. Dems are very aware of some of the flaws in the ACA, but unlike the republicans, the dems are doing something to fix them.
Get of the Benghazi wagon. Get it through your thick skull that it was terrorists who killed our ambassador and staff.
The rhetoric from you is so repetitive that is is sickening.
Issa found nothing. NOTHING. Get over it. 
It is not the first time any of our embassies and consulates were attacked and it won't be the last. 
They admitted that the chatter they received about the video on youtube was wrong and addressed it the next day in the Rose Garden. You have no legs to stand on when it comes to Benghazi. You can acuse all you want to, but you will always be wrong about it.
How many times do you have to be told this?
It might be wise of you to stop condemning the First Lady.
From the looks of your pudgy hands in your yarn pic you posted, I believe that you are short and squat and plumpy.
Are you jealous of her LTL? She is very fit and buff and takes good care of herself. She need not consult you as her stylist. Her taste is impeccable when it comes to her gowns and dresses. I think you are very jealous of her.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Wow, so nasty early in the morning. The point is that Obama is getting criticized for Obamacare and Michelle for her School Lunch program pretty much across the board. But when the race card is played just shows how desperate the Ocultists are at their feeble attempt to support Obamacare. I mean how flawed is that website? It was down for "scheduled maintenance" for hours just prior to Obama's attempt to tell Americans how good it is. There is no way it was scheduled for maintenance for several hours before a scheduled press conference, in the middle of the day, 3 days before the deadline for signup happens. And since the website has no race, how does criticizing its failure become a racial topic? Isn't it time for the administration to stop blaming the Canadians and take responsibility for its inability to function?


I have no idea whether the site was down or not, I am certainly not going to believe you about it. One of these days you will figure out that policy means and maybe then realize why people have such disdain for your inability to articulate a complaint. 
You are making no sense. 
I pray that you get some rest in order to improve your cognitive function.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have no idea whether the site was down or not, I am certainly not going to believe you about it. One of these days you will figure out that policy means and maybe then realize why people have such disdain for your inability to articulate a complaint.
> You are making no sense.
> I pray that you get some rest in order to improve your cognitive function.


She really doesn't make sense anymore, jelun.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


So youtube is your new source for truthful resources?
Please.....


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> So youtube is your new source for truthful resources?
> Please.....


You might think that rather than gauging the nation's barometer by what kids are posting on youtube she would be saddened that young people are spending their time making useless vids for that site rather than studying. 
There is a reason people cannot vote at that young age.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wrong again. Dems are very aware of some of the flaws in the ACA, but unlike the republicans, the dems are doing something to fix them.
> Get of the Benghazi wagon. Get it through your thick skull that it was terrorists who killed our ambassador and staff.
> The rhetoric from you is so repetitive that is is sickening.
> Issa found nothing. NOTHING. Get over it.
> ...


 To try to restrict free thinking and speaking is Fascism, not everyone on here are obama leg humpers. By the way Lakes yarn that she spun was beautiful variegated shades of raspberry, your fixation on her hands and visualizing what the rest of her looks like puts a strange twist on your post.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

galinipper said:


> To try to restrict free thinking and speaking is Fascism, not everyone on here are obama leg humpers. By the way Lakes yarn that she spun was beautiful variegated shades of raspberry, your fixation on her hands and visualizing what the rest of her looks like puts a strange twist on your post.


How vulgar, the obsession with sexual acts that oozes through your posts is truly gross.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

........


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

......


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Obviously we don't agree. And never the twain shall meet.



lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

galinipper said:


> ......


As I said, vulgar.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or at least you take a nap and give us some peace.



jelun2 said:


> I have no idea whether the site was down or not, I am certainly not going to believe you about it. One of these days you will figure out that policy means and maybe then realize why people have such disdain for your inability to articulate a complaint.
> You are making no sense.
> I pray that you get some rest in order to improve your cognitive function.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> How vulgar, the obsession with sexual acts that oozes through your posts is truly gross.


Try to get past it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Vile speech. You are a strange bird. Are you trying to say something or just spouting off?



galinipper said:


> To try to restrict free thinking and speaking is Fascism, not everyone on here are obama leg humpers. By the way Lakes yarn that she spun was beautiful variegated shades of raspberry, your fixation on her hands and visualizing what the rest of her looks like puts a strange twist on your post.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> As I said, vulgar.


again try to get past it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah. Finally I get it. You are in the Twilight Zone. Get comfortable.



galinipper said:


> ......


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Or at least you take a nap and give us some peace.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Try to get past it.


The obsession is demonstrated by people who are broken in some form, stuck at an adolescent stage, I am past it. I pray that you can heal yourself and get past it yourself .


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

damemary said:


> Vile speech. You are a strange bird. Are you trying to say something or just spouting off?


humping is nothing new and pictures of variegated raspberry yarn has been posted before. try to get past it


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> The obsession is demonstrated by people who are broken in some form, stuck at an adolescent stage, I am past it. I pray that you can heal yourself and get past it yourself .


childish spittle


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

galinipper said:


> childish spittle


Pot, meet kettle!!! :XD: :roll:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

galinipper said:


> humping is nothing new and pictures of variegated raspberry yarn has been posted before. try to get past it


Obsession and crassness are nothing new, either. 
You demonstrate that well.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Obsession and crassness are nothing new, either.
> You demonstrate that well.


As you have in many of your posts, so you are right it is nothing new.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Pot, meet kettle!!! :XD: :roll:


I see the left is calling in the troops. Your such a good little soldier to obey their commands. :!:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Proof of tampering with posts on this thread:

Directly below is what Jokim posted on p. 10 of this thread, 4th entry on the page:

I am not preaching, just stating facts, and opinions.
Don't twist my posts. It's obvious you don't understand them. (quote)

Below is what Nussa quotes Jokim saying, found on the same page, fifth entry:

Jokim wrote:
I am not preaching, just stating facts, and opinions.
And why is it that it that you tell everyone that it is obvious to you that we don't understand your posts? 
Don't twist my posts. It's obvious you don't understand them. (quote)

The middle line is a fabricated addition. Anyone who does this sort of thing has lost all credibility is not worth the time and effort of being read. :thumbdown:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Proof of tampering with posts on this thread:
> 
> Directly below is what Jokim posted on p. 10 of this thread, 4th entry on the page:
> 
> ...


LOL, a conspiracy theorist, the trouble with conspiracy theories is that the gullible are so easily duped.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

No, I knew someone who might like the Tea Party would call them the TP at some time, and yet I was kind of surprised when it finally happened. 


Nussa said:


> Tea Party.........toilet paper.......not much diff between the two.....


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The Capital gains rate is now 20% for high income individuals. And the rate for earned income tax increases as the amount of earned income increases.
> 
> More tax breaks are available for middle income people than for the wealthy. They are either phased out or limited once you reach a certain amount.
> 
> ...


What is with the adoration and support you have FOR the rich? What are the rich doing to support your ability to live comfortably in the US?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


So you actually spend time on YouTube hunting for and watching baloney created by teenagers who naturally create that kind of stuff? So little time, indeed, and wasting it on YouTube seems especially unproductive.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> How vulgar, the obsession with sexual acts that oozes through your posts is truly gross.


And this is about a sexual act *dogs* perform...:XD: :XD:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Galinipper posts a picture comparing the President of the United States to a stereotype black youth. Wow! No racism there. This is one of the best examples of the racism aimed at the President I've seen to date. Even freedom of speech doesn't cover this garbage.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Galinipper posts a picture comparing the President of the United States to a stereotype black youth. Wow! No racism there. NOT. This is one of the best examples of the racism aimed at the President I've seen to date. Even freedom of speech doesn't cover this garbage.


I took that picture to be Obama laughing at Benghazi (I think that is one of the pics of Benghazi). Either way, it shows a lack of intelligence


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Ah. Finally I get it. You are in the Twilight Zone. Get comfortable.


Maybe she'll find a part of the Twilight Zone where she can't communicate with the real world anymore. Hey, at least I can hope that happens. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Maybe that's something I can tell Santa I want for Christmas. :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> Try to get past it.


Try to stop it.:shock: Only you can control your bad habits.:thumbdown:


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Galinipper posts a picture comparing the President of the United States to a stereotype black youth. Wow! No racism there. NOT. This is one of the best examples of the racism aimed at the President I've seen to date. Even freedom of speech doesn't cover this garbage.


LOL Seattle, wrong again, if you dig deep enough You,not me, could find racism in something as simple as a glass of water. Put a bandaid on that racial butt hurt.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe she'll find a part of the Twilight Zone where she can't communicate with the real world anymore. Hey, at least I can hope that happens. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Maybe that's something I can tell Santa I want for Christmas. :thumbup:


Santa is not real, you have a better chance if you ask Obamaclause


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> I took that picture to be Obama laughing at Benghazi (I think that is one of the pics of Benghazi). Either way, it shows a lack of intelligence


I thought it was a pic of a guy taking a picture of some ghetto violence that he was proud of. If it's a pic from Benghazi it shows a real lack of concern for what happened there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


You're giving more examples of disrespect to explain why the disrespect exists? Obama's policies are bad *because* idiots mock them on Youtube?

So if, magically, Youtube disappeared, the policies would be good. Problem solved.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> LOL Seattle, wrong again, if you dig deep enough You,not me, could find racism in something as simple as a glass of water. Put a bandaid on that racial butt hurt.


 Hit a nerve there, did I?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

galinipper said:


> humping is nothing new and pictures of variegated raspberry yarn has been posted before. try to get past it


Can you imagine how empty their lives must be to bring up photos from another website to attempt to mock me or anyone else?

What is hilarious is their pathetic assumptions. Wonder if she can reach more than an octave on a piano?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> Santa is not real, you have a better chance if you ask Obamaclause


Santa is just as real as you are here online.:twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> ........


Wow, that was a good argument you just made - not. Just another racist message.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I thought it was a pic of a guy taking a picture of some ghetto violence that he was proud of. If it's a pic from Benghazi it shows a real lack of concern for what happened there.


The lack of concern would be on your part, you are the one that thought the pic was ghetto violence, and you jumped to that conclusion so you could.....get ready .....listen....quiet please....Could Call Me Racist.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Try to get past it.


Hard to get past it when you shove it in our faces.

How about getting over your obsession with every little thing the President does and trying to deal with problems from a reasoned perspective? Nah, that would take real thought. It's much easier to copy stuff from some RWN website and post it here.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow, that was a good argument you just made - not. Just another racist message.


I sure do agree with you, Purl.:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> humping is nothing new and pictures of variegated raspberry yarn has been posted before. try to get past it


Oh, goody. You now have a slogan. You'll never have to think again.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> childish spittle


Either you didn't understand what Jelun said or you're going down a list of moronic phrases and attaching them randomly. I vote for both.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Can you imagine how empty their lives must be to bring up photos from another website to attempt to mock me or anyone else?
> 
> What is hilarious is their pathetic assumptions. Wonder if she can reach more than an octave on a piano?


She can't even reach the stool of a piano. :lol: 
Merry christmas to you Lakes. 
I do remember the picture, lovely yarn, but don't remember your hand in the picture.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Can you imagine how empty their lives must be to bring up photos from another website to attempt to mock me or anyone else?
> 
> What is hilarious is their pathetic assumptions. Wonder if she can reach more than an octave on a piano?


She can't even reach the stool of a piano. :lol: 
Merry christmas to you Lakes. 
I do remember the picture, lovely yarn, but don't remember your hand in the picture.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

sorry double post,


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

galinipper said:


> The lack of concern would be on your part, you are the one that thought the pic was ghetto violence, and you jumped to that conclusion so you could.....get ready .....listen....quiet please....Could Call Me Racist.


Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence. 
That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> The lack of concern would be on your part, you are the one that thought the pic was ghetto violence, and you jumped to that conclusion so you could.....get ready .....listen....quiet please....Could Call Me Racist.


Umh, well, not exactly. I'm kind of nearsighted. My glasses don't fix that as well as I might like them to.You're still a racist, though. That's something you could fix completely if you wanted to.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Hard to get past it when you shove it in our faces.
> 
> How about getting over your obsession with every little thing the President does and trying to deal with problems from a reasoned perspective? Nah, that would take real thought. It's much easier to copy stuff from some RWN website and post it here.


fascism doesn't look good on you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Umh, well, not exactly. I'm kind of nearsighted. My glasses don't fix that as well as I might like them to.You're still a racist, though. That's something you could fix completely if you wanted to.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, goody. You now have a slogan. You'll never have to think again.


Do you mean "Humping is Nothing New"? Maybe she'll make up a bunch of bumperstickers and pass them around to like-minded people.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence.
> That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.


I connected him with another selfie.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence.
> That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Excellent identification of the real problem.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Proof of tampering with posts on this thread:
> 
> Directly below is what Jokim posted on p. 10 of this thread, 4th entry on the page:
> 
> ...


I actually went back to see what you mean. What is most obvious is that the middle line is in Nussa's voice, commenting on your next sentence. Most people who read it can recognize that. I don't know how it got into the quote; it looks accidental, because she made no attempt to make it sound like your voice. I fail to see why it's such a big deal, considering the actual lies people tell around here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> LOL Seattle, wrong again, if you dig deep enough You,not me, could find racism in something as simple as a glass of water. Put a bandaid on that racial butt hurt.


Was that vulgarism also on your list of random dumb answers?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I actually went back to see what you mean. What is most obvious is that the middle line is in Nussa's voice, commenting on your next sentence. Most people who read it can recognize that. I don't know how it got into the quote; it looks accidental, because she made no attempt to make it sound like your voice. I fail to see why it's such a big deal, considering the actual lies people tell around here.


It is not obvious 'that the middle line is in Nussa's voice'.
It is part of what she quotes me as saying! 
That's fraud!
:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> It is not obvious 'that the middle line is in Nussa's voice'. It is part of what she quotes me as saying!
> That's fraud!


Ignore the poor, Poor Purl, Jokim. English is not her first language or best subject.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Can you imagine how empty their lives must be to bring up photos from another website to attempt to mock me or anyone else?


You stooped to mocking the first lady's appearance; why wouldn't she - sorry, "they," since you can't tell the difference between individuals - mock yours in response?



> What is hilarious is their pathetic assumptions. Wonder if she can reach more than an octave on a piano?


If long fingers are your measure of superiority, as you imply, then many black people are far, far superior to you.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ignore the poor, Poor Purl, Jokim. English is not her first language.


Fraud, if not outright, borders on criminal. See p. 10 of this thread, posts #3 & #4. Everyone writes how things are twisted and meanings corrupted, well, here's proof!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence.
> That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I actually went back to see what you mean. What is most obvious is that the middle line is in Nussa's voice, commenting on your next sentence. Most people who read it can recognize that. I don't know how it got into the quote; it looks accidental, because she made no attempt to make it sound like your voice. I fail to see why it's such a big deal, considering the actual lies people tell around here.


It isn't a big deal, of course, and it took until today for her to bring it up. She posted immediately after Nussa and didn't say a word about the "doctored" post. 
Initially I thought that perhaps Nussa responded and then Jokim edited...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Umh, well, not exactly. I'm kind of nearsighted. My glasses don't fix that as well as I might like them to.You're still a racist, though. That's something you could fix completely if you wanted to.


Well put. You're on a roll, Maid.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Fraud, if not outright, borders on criminal. See p. 10 of this thread, posts #3 & #4. Everyone writes how things are twisted and meanings corrupted, well, here's proof!


I wonder if she has a good lawyer.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was that vulgarism also on your list of random dumb answers?


Her thought processes are pretty sexual, aren't they? It isn't just my imagination?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> fascism doesn't look good on you.


Another random remark? What does fascism have to do with my post? In fact, do you even know what fascism is?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Do you mean "Humping is Nothing New"? Maybe she'll make up a bunch of bumperstickers and pass them around to like-minded people.


When I wrote that, I meant "Get past it" or "over it" or whatever she said. But yours is much better.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Fraud, if not outright, borders on criminal. See p. 10 of this thread, posts #3 & #4. Everyone writes how things are twisted and meanings corrupted, well, here's proof!


Oh, yes, people come here just to commit criminal acts against you. Maybe you should call the police to protect you... I wonder of they think a url is a valid address.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I wonder if she has a good lawyer.


HAHAHAA, you are so funny.
I thought that you conservatives got all up in arms about frivolous actions. Could you assess the harm done to that person, nobody here had any respect for her prior to that post. She cannot go down in people's estimation due to any action on Nussa's part, she is already at the bottom of the respect-o-meter.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence.
> That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.


"Our Recognition" :lol: You act as though you are a team of "Right Fighters." When you are just a bunch of woman that like working with yarn, get a screen name and set out to change the world. It's comical, fictional and passes the time. Speaking of time , sorry but it has ran out for me today. I must go now and brush my unicorn and sprinkle glitter and rinestones in the milkyway. Merry Christmas,Gali


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jokim said:


> It is not obvious 'that the middle line is in Nussa's voice'.
> It is part of what she quotes me as saying!
> That's fraud!
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Maybe, though when I read it, I knew it was an interjection (=an explanatory note placed between other words).

Anyway, a few minutes later, I put one into a message I was sending and almost did what Nussa did. If you don't think of typing "[/quote]" before your interjection and "


> " after it, it looks like your own sentence is part of the quote.
> 
> Hardly evidence of criminal activity.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jelun2 wrote:
Our recognition of your racist posts is not the issue, the problem is that you don't recognize that it is not important whether you relate the POTUS to urban violence or terrorist violence. 
That you connect the man who is leader of the free world with the enjoyment of killing and maiming of others simply because he is our first bi-racial president is the problem.



galinipper said:



> I connected him with another selfie.


YOU didn't connect him with anything. 
Moonbattery.com created the picture. It is disgusting that you would put up yet another unattributed work and try to present it as your own. 
A simple search of Benghazi Obama Selfie brings it up on the images section on Bing.

And just so we don't miss out on where you spend your time feeding your sick racism and ugly thought processes...
http://moonbattery.com/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ignore the poor, Poor Purl, Jokim. English is not her first language or best subject.


You're putting on your funny voice today, I see.

In my first language, we know what "whom" means.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Fraud, if not outright, borders on criminal. See p. 10 of this thread, posts #3 & #4. Everyone writes how things are twisted and meanings corrupted, well, here's proof!


Okay, have it your way. I'm not going to investigate again. It's too small a deal to waste time on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It isn't a big deal, of course, and it took until today for her to bring it up. She posted immediately after Nussa and didn't say a word about the "doctored" post.
> Initially I thought that perhaps Nussa responded and then Jokim edited...


Jokim (an odd name; I keep wanting to shorten it to Joke) is now doing what another has done: going back to old messages and looking for who-knows-what and using them as evidence of w-k-w-else.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Her thought processes are pretty sexual, aren't they? It isn't just my imagination?


Not your imagination at all. Even after you pointed that out to her, she wrote the humping message. It's fascinating to see what's on people's minds that they don't see themselves.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not your imagination at all. Even after you pointed that out to her, she wrote the humping message. It's fascinating to see what's on people's minds that they don't see themselves.


Catch a peek at that website she apparently visits. You will see where she picks up terms like "butt hurt". 
Now, I have shared housing with gay men, I worked for the Commonwealth of Mass. which has had no discrimination in hiring since the '60s, I have never heard anyone use the term butt hurt in a casual manner. Heck, I don't think I have heard it at all, most people I know have too much respect for themselves to talk that way.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> YOU didn't connect him with anything.
> Moonbattery.com created the picture. It is disgusting that you would put up yet another unattributed work and try to present it as your own.
> A simple search of Benghazi Obama Selfie brings it up on the images section on Bing.
> 
> ...


 She's simply taking credit for her inspired idea of copy-and-paste.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Catch a peek at that website she apparently visits. You will see where she picks up terms like "butt hurt".
> Now, I have shared housing with gay men, I worked for the Commonwealth of Mass. which has had no discrimination in hiring since the '60s, I have never heard anyone use the term butt hurt in a casual manner. Heck, I don't think I have heard it at all, most people I know have too much respect for themselves to talk that way.


I caught a peek, and I wish I hadn't. It's a disgusting website, and not even clever about it. To quote my Eastern European father: "Feh!"


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> "Our Recognition" :lol: You act as though you are a team of "Right Fighters." When you are just a bunch of woman that like working with yarn, get a screen name and set out to change the world. It's comical, fictional and passes the time. Speaking of time , sorry but it has ran out for me today. I must go now and brush my unicorn and sprinkle glitter and rinestones in the milkyway. Merry Christmas,Gali


Get past it.

And did you just wish yourself a Merry Christmas? How quaint.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Get past it.
> 
> And did you just wish yourself a Merry Christmas? How quaint.


Quick exit. 
One might think that some of the Christians around here would take her to task for that ugliness, and I don't mean those on the left. They already do their fair share.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Quick exit.
> One might think that some of the Christians around here would take her to task for that ugliness, and I don't mean those on the left. They already do their fair share.


It won't happen. This is a group united around their hatred of Obama and nothing else. Some are Christians (and never tire of letting you know it), but others are not, and I don't think her ugliness bothers them if it's for the cause.

Groups united only by hate tend to overstep normal bounds, because there's nothing positive between them. Think of the Nazis and the KKK. They've left a horrid legacy, which our right-leaning friends seem happy to inherit.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Obamacultists can not admit that Obama has done anything wrong, that Obamacare is not riddled with problems, that *Obama is the number one liar in our country, that Benghazi was not caused by a YouTube video,* .....


This is on YouTube too:

use this link and click on words "Proceed to this site"

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kqe2rgb


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It won't happen. This is a group united around their hatred of Obama and nothing else. Some are Christians (and never tire of letting you know it), but others are not, and I don't think her ugliness bothers them if it's for the cause.
> 
> Groups united only by hate tend to overstep normal bounds, because there's nothing positive between them. Think of the Nazis and the KKK. They've left a horrid legacy, which our right-leaning friends seem happy to inherit.


The most interesting is that she throws out these pop psych terms with her own twist to them.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

As my GD's are extreamly intelligent, and unlike KPG, (Thank God), in any way, shape or form......yes, I do.


lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk with the name calling
> 
> Do you kiss your grandkids with that mouth?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> "Our Recognition" :lol: You act as though you are a team of "Right Fighters." When you are just a bunch of woman that like working with yarn, get a screen name and set out to change the world. It's comical, fictional and passes the time. Speaking of time , sorry but it has ran out for me today. I must go now and brush my unicorn and sprinkle glitter and rinestones in the milkyway. Merry Christmas,Gali


Thank you, Dr. Phil.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> As my GD's are extreamly intelligent, and unlike KPG, (Thank God), in any way, shape or form......yes, I do.


One might think that she believes you use your mouth to type. 
:roll:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

SERIOUSLY????? Exactly what part of that paragraph was nasty???? I'd say a bit to early in the morning to start the lies....Let me provide you with a nasty word that you just used. (Ocultists) By the way......there's no way to save LTL's bacon......so why do you insist on trying? And it isn't because you are such good friends.....You don't even know each other. But then you do need someone to support your Republican agenda......and you don't care who you use.


lovethelake said:


> Wow, so nasty early in the morning. The point is that Obama is getting criticized for Obamacare and Michelle for her School Lunch program pretty much across the board. But when the race card is played just shows how desperate the Ocultists are at their feeble attempt to support Obamacare. I mean how flawed is that website? It was down for "scheduled maintenance" for hours just prior to Obama's attempt to tell Americans how good it is. There is no way it was scheduled for maintenance for several hours before a scheduled press conference, in the middle of the day, 3 days before the deadline for signup happens. And since the website has no race, how does criticizing its failure become a racial topic? Isn't it time for the administration to stop blaming the Canadians and take responsibility for its inability to function?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Are we having fun yet?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Are we having fun yet?


We may be, let me check!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I really like Trey Gowdy. He is so right, he tells it like it is. The media is not doing its job. Obama is calling it a phony scandal, and it was so long ago, because only a few seem to care why four Americans were killed.
> 
> When will America realize we are getting a "snow" job.


It is not at all that people don't care, the fact is that adults understand (as did the gentlemen who were killed) that it is dangerous service. As has been pointed out repeatedly, there have been many attacks on embassies and consulates over the past several decades. This is what the job entails. 
Using the tragic deaths of these people who served the US and Libya as political fodder is a nasty, nasty business.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Does this finding surprise you, Solo?


Not in the least. What does surprise me is he actually posted the results instead of burying it somewhere. It also doesn't surprise me that the alphabet stations are quite about the results.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

We've been getting "snow" jobs from the White House probably long before Nixon's blizzard. So don't try to use this as a way to blame President Obama for what happened in Benghazi. What about that huge "snow" job that G.W. Bush gave us when he decided to send thousands of our military to be killed in a war over of nonexistent, "Weapons of Mass Destruction." Sorry, but to much of the " Pot calling the Kettle Black" on this one......


joeysomma said:


> I really like Trey Gowdy. He is so right, he tells it like it is. The media is not doing its job. Obama is calling it a phony scandal, and it was so long ago, because only a few seem to care why four Americans were killed.
> 
> When will America realize we are getting a "snow" job.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That depends on what you believe to be honest. Trey Gowdy was just spouting republican rhetoric, as they needed to blame President Obama for something.......This is just one in over hundreds of years of incidences that have come and gone in every presidency that has ever been......Yes....it's a lame attempt..... You all must be running out things to blame the President for, as you are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

And no, I am not making light of the people who died in that tragedy, but how can you count their deaths to be more important than those of the service men/women, not to mention civilians who have died in the Bush war???


soloweygirl said:


> Not in the least. What does surprise me is he actually posted the results instead of burying it somewhere. It also doesn't surprise me that the alphabet stations are quite about the results.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Your friend lukelucy is calling you. Maybe you can cook up something together. I doubt many will believe you, but you never know.


The last thing on any list of mine is if you believe me or not. Your opinion does not matter to me.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh yes it does......It's like I've said before...You guys just can't help yourselves. It's like you have a posting addiction.


soloweygirl said:


> The last thing on any list of mine is if you believe me or not. Your opinion does not matter to me.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The last thing on any list of mine is if you believe me or not. Your opinion does not matter to me.


I love the laughs this gives. Why post here and in response to what people say about issues if an opinion doesn't matter.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--why does he even need a chef when there's a KFC in virtually every city? No doubt you feel that's sufficient.


Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I love the laughs this gives. Why post here and in response to what people say about issues if an opinion doesn't matter.


 :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ohhhh.....not NICE words solosweygirl! As you all get on our case when you think we have not used NICE words......Just saying! :mrgreen:


soloweygirl said:


> Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> part quote"
> I'll say something else. There is ONE thing the Obamas have had to contend with that no one else ever has -- racism and the extraordinary escalation of actual threats against them, and their children over those from normal whackos. To be sure, that too would not likely have been a surprise, but I can imagine that's about the hardest part to deal with. They both tend to shrug that off when asked about it, but common sense tells me dealing with that on an ongoing day-in/day-out basis could be VERY heavy and cumbersome.


Wow that was a record for playing the race card.

I do not understand why you and all the other Obamacultists can not understand that disapproval of her or her husband policies are NOY due to their race. I do not like his policies or her lunch program. ( To be a tad snarky, I thought her dress for Obama's acceptance speech looked more like a swimming suit than a more respectful than gown or dress. And I did giggle at her thong picture getting on the helicopter. But I would have done that whomever was the First Lady. But then again, one of my favorite emails was pictures of Walmartians). Using the false accusation of racism is just a way to divert the conversation away from real issues and objections to their policies. Yes I know you could probably find some obscure websites with horrifically racists comments. But to assume that 99% of us support or find humor with those comments or comments is just wrong. In fact, the more you sling those false racists comments, the more ridiculous your accusations lose the power you wish them to achieve.

Disagree with me when I disagree with his policies that you agree with, that is fine. But to resort to racism slinging devalues your thoughts in my opinion.[/quote]

The liberals have to resort to using the race card when they can't defend his policies. They figure this is the way to show their support of those policies, (because they are showing a united front whether right or wrong) without actually supporting them. It gets the Democrats off the hook.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe that's why she has so much trouble coming up with an intelligent argument...hummmm


jelun2 said:


> One might think that she believes you use your mouth to type.
> :roll:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ObamaCare Is Dead
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on December 20, 2013

On Friday, December 20, 2012, ObamaCare died. The president announced that if your health care plan was cancelled as a result of the requirements of ObamaCare, you are relieved from having to obey the individual mandate to have health insurance. He also said that a simple catastrophic policy would suffice if you chose to get one and that he would make them available through the exchanges. (In other words, if your policy was cancelled because it was not sufficiently comprehensive, you can buy one even less comprehensive and that will be okay).

But the big news, buried in his Friday afternoon press conference is the retreat from the individual mandate. Right now, the retreat only applies to individuals whose policies have been cancelled, but inevitably, next year, when cancellations of group plans cascade down on the system, these folks as well will be exempted from the individual mandate. Obama can't exempt those with individual policies that were cancelled without exempting everyone who has been cancelled. Its not tenable politically. Either he exempts everyone or he can't exempt anyone.

So the goal of the Tea Party and the Republicans in shutting down the government in October -- the end of the individual mandate or at least its suspension for a year -- has been achieved! Victory is ours!

The president trumpeted the fact that 500,000 people had enrolled through his exchanges in the first three weeks of December. But of those who enrolled through the end of November, two-thirds enrolled in Medicaid and only one-third in ObamaCare. If that 2:1 ratio holds up, it will mean that there have been only135,000 new enrollees in ObamaCare through the third week of December, bringing the total to a measly 500,000.

The Administration had predicted that 2.2 million would sign up for ObamaCare by December 15th. It missed the target by only about 80%!

The fact is that nobody wants what Obama is selling and they are not buying it. With the relaxation of the individual mandate, the signups will become ever sparser.

ObamaCare is dying from a lack of interest among the very people it was supposed to help. A New York Times survey showed that 77% of those who are currently uninsured do not approve of ObamaCare and have no intention of signing up.

With the president in full retreat and the individual mandate eroding, the end of ObamaCare is in sight!

---------------
KPG's words: Now the fight begins against what the Dems really want; a single-payer, government dictator, system.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


So even *you* don't recognize sarcasm. I expected better.

Susan's remark wasn't racist; it made fun of racist remarks.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I really like Trey Gowdy. He is so right, he tells it like it is. The media is not doing its job. Obama is calling it a phony scandal, and it was so long ago, because only a few seem to care why four Americans were killed.
> 
> When will America realize we are getting a "snow" job.


Well, finally the lame-stream media (not to be confused with those journalists who actually REPORT the news) has been called out for being the lap dogs they were for shilling for Obama. Now what will they do? Already they are complaining Obama no longer gives them access since they began reporting the truth so, naturally, he shut them off.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The last thing on any list of mine is if you believe me or not. Your opinion does not matter to me.


 :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So why not say it like it is??? You don't like President Obama because he is a Democrat! Doesn't matter what color he is, or what religion he is, or where he takes his vacations, or that his wife wore a dress you didn't like. It's because he is a DEMOCRAT...... not a REPUBLICAN. That I can understand. The rest is all sticks and stones.


soloweygirl said:


> The liberals have to resort to using the race card when they can't defend his policies. They figure this is the way to show their support of those policies, (because they are showing a united front whether right or wrong) without actually supporting them. It gets the Democrats off the hook.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The liberals have to resort to using the race card when they can't defend his policies. They figure this is the way to show their support of those policies, (because they are showing a united front whether right or wrong) without actually supporting them. It gets the Democrats off the hook.


Do you really believe that none of the enmity shown by the right is racist? You personally may not be a racist; I haven't seen you defend the waving of the Confederate flag practically in his face, as others here have done. But if you deny there's any racism in the crap that's been thrown at him since he won his first election, maybe you should be sent to a FEMA re-education camp. (Joke, in case your humor gland was removed.)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


Haven't figured out a question mark yet? 
Or contempt?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Dick Morris is a political whore.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Dick Morris, the most believable man in America. The one who had a hooker suck his toes while he talked on the phone to the president (Clinton) that he worked for.

That Dick Morris. Enough said.



knitpresentgifts said:


> ObamaCare Is Dead
> By DICK MORRIS
> Published on DickMorris.com on December 20, 2013
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Well, Judicial Watch isn't exactly your well-respected most objective news source either. I see this as mainly an attempt to take something quite routine, even necessar, and make it sound nefarious.
> 
> Yeah, no matter what they do, even if they stay right there at home, it will involve Secret Service costs. And they have to fly on military aircraft.
> 
> And ya know what? I think they are also entitled to a bit of a life. She gets NOTHING in remuneration for any official duties, ever, and now Republicans want to begrudge her a working vacation? Let them show some remorse for the multi-billion dollars wasted in the government shutdown and other Republican follies, and then maybe I'll be sympathetic to their whines about Mrs. Obama.


Why should she receive renumeration? Any First Lady is in that position because her husband is POTUS. He IS the elected official, she is there only because of him. Yes, the First Lady is expected to do a lot of publicity work, but the position is ONLY a figurehead position. Possibly it should be changed as the First Lady is required to do much for the US at home and abroad and she should be paid a salary for the time she does put into the position.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, had to look him up........and maybe the word whoremonger would also suit him?


jelun2 said:


> Dick Morris is a political whore.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I almost forgot I wanted to post this:


It's good to know that he thinks that the Republicans CAN fix what the mess Democrats created.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why should she receive renumeration? Any First Lady is in that position because her husband is POTUS. He IS the elected official, she is there only because of him. Yes, the First Lady is expected to do a lot of publicity work, but the position is ONLY a figurehead position. Possibly it should be changed as the First Lady is required to do much for the US at home and abroad and she should be paid a salary for the time she does put into the position.


I don't get this. Are you arguing with Knitry, who said the First Lady doesn't receive remuneration? Or did you think she said the opposite? Or have you decided that the First Lady _should_ be paid? Or did you forget what you were responding to?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Bet you didn't think that when Laura Bush was First Lady.....

You must have a back yard full of dead horses at your house.....try a new subject.....you keep picking up on all the old ones.....and as I've noticed you never pick up on any that might take a lot of mental fortitude....


soloweygirl said:


> Why should she receive renumeration? Any First Lady is in that position because her husband is POTUS. He IS the elected official, she is there only because of him. Yes, the First Lady is expected to do a lot of publicity work, but the position is ONLY a figurehead position. Possibly it should be changed as the First Lady is required to do much for the US at home and abroad and she should be paid a salary for the time she does put into the position.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Even that bare bones policy is better than any of the old crappy policies.


Wow, that makes so much sense since those old crappy policies covered way more than this bare bones catastrophic policy.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You live in a fantasy world don't you????


soloweygirl said:


> It's good to know that he thinks that the Republicans CAN fix what the mess Democrats created.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Was it common sense that shut own the government? But that only cost this country $24 billion.Sso I guess you could say it was worth it.


The shutdown could have been avoided but the Democrats would have nothing to do with it. If they had delayed Obamacare then, there would have been no shutdown. Instead, 2 months later, all kinds of delays are being granted to the law. It was unnecessary but at least POTUS got to blame the Republicans.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The following is just an excerpt; the actual article is a lot longer and there's a link at the end:
> 
> *Obama Trip Cost Dwarfed by the Bush Africa Spending Spree*
> As conservatives rage about the cost of Obamas Africa trip, it is important to remember that George and Laura Bush made a combined 7 trips to Africa all on the taxpayers dime.
> ...


Could it be because Bush was giving aid to Africa and Obama is merely traveling in Africa? I see that as a big difference between the two.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama just gave up what he went to the Supreme Court to win. No more fines for not having health insurance on Jan 1, 2013. No longer need to have all of the essential coverages. People can choose their old "crappy" insurance. Yes the premiums and deductibles are higher. He has now declared it a hardship if you lost your insurance because of Obamacare. Now you are eligible for catastrophic insurance that he declared was only available for those under 30. Which is the best way to go if you are healthy and if you combine it with a HSA (Health Savings Account).


In other words, he is trying, but failing, to retract his LIES.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why should she receive renumeration? Any First Lady is in that position because her husband is POTUS. He IS the elected official, she is there only because of him. Yes, the First Lady is expected to do a lot of publicity work, but the position is ONLY a figurehead position. Possibly it should be changed as the First Lady is required to do much for the US at home and abroad and she should be paid a salary for the time she does put into the position.


She should receive a bit of cash because the gentleman who created a trust thought she should.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> So youtube is your new source for truthful resources?
> Please.....


No U-Tube would be Obama's and Hillary's choice for "truthful resources. They were the ones blaming the U-tube video for the attack.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Could it be because Bush was giving aid to Africa and Obama is merely traveling in Africa? I see that as a big difference between the two.


Okay, here's the rest of the article:

Giving aid to Africa to combat malaria and AIDS is a very noble cause. It literally saves lives, but *5 goodwill visits to Africa arent cheap. Laura Bush wasnt flying all alone on a commercial flight. Her trips cost the taxpayers a pretty penny. For some odd reason, the GAO (General Accounting Office) records on the cost of the Bush familys Africa travels seem to have vanished.* The media has contacted the GAO, but no specific numbers have been provided yet. President Clintons Africa trip in 1998 cost taxpayers $42.8 million. George W. Bushs two trips five and ten years later were likely more expensive.

The Washington Post story didnt say that Obamas trip will cost $100 million, but that the trip could cost $60-100 million, and that the cost was based on similar African trips made in recent years, Obamas trip could cost the federal government $60 million to $100 million based on the costs of similar African trips in recent years, according to one person familiar with the journey, who was not authorized to speak for attribution.

President Obama hasnt made any trips to Africa, except a 22 hour stopover in Ghana in 2009, so it is pretty clear that Secret Service is basing their cost estimate on the cost of the Bush trips. Since George W. Bush made two presidential trips to Africa, it is likely that he spent more money in todays dollars as President Obama will on his trip.

The reality is that presidential trips are expensive. It would be fair to be opposed to all of them, but the hypocrisy of only being outraged when certain presidents travel is unacceptable. George W. Bush appears to have had himself quite a little African spending spree, but apparently cost only matters when Barack Obama is the president who is doing the traveling.

Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=756_1371341703#OrSDCgEPOHrfEbxF.99

(Edited to add boldface to a few sentences.)


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama just gave up what he went to the Supreme Court to win. No more fines for not having health insurance on Jan 1, 2013. No longer need to have all of the essential coverages. People can choose their old "crappy" insurance. Yes the premiums and deductibles are higher. He has now declared it a hardship if you lost your insurance because of Obamacare. Now you are eligible for catastrophic insurance that he declared was only available for those under 30. Which is the best way to go if you are healthy and if you combine it with a HSA (Health Savings Account).


I will happily go along with anyone having any limited health insurance they want so that they can spend their money on cell phones, higher rents, taking six different girlfriends on vacations and $74. skeins of yarn. It honestly doesn't matter to me who buys what insurance. However, stay out of my pockets when something goes wrong with your plan. No more stablization, no more disability payments for people who got drunk and rammed their 80K dollar care into a copse. No more mercy, if you don't see the sense in being prepared, pppffttt. Mommy and Daddy who didn't train you to be prepared for any eventuality can dig deep.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Could it be because Bush was giving aid to Africa and Obama is merely traveling in Africa? I see that as a big difference between the two.


Oh c'mon, you can do better than that. 
Do you have no idea how foreign aid works? or do you think that Africa is one huge nation? or do you think that he went from country to country writing checks that he hoped wouldn't bounce? what with those unfunded wars and prescription drug plans and aid to Israel and Egypt... and and and... his HUGE AIDS program for Africa.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You give President Obama too much credit.......The Republican-Tea Partiests.....get the credit for that one all on their own.


soloweygirl said:


> The shutdown could have been avoided but the Democrats would have nothing to do with it. If they had delayed Obamacare then, there would have been no shutdown. Instead, 2 months later, all kinds of delays are being granted to the law. It was unnecessary but at least POTUS got to blame the Republicans.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She's clueless, you can tell by her short, non-explanatory sentences....


jelun2 said:


> Oh c'mon, you can do better than that.
> Do you have no idea how foreign aid works? or do you think that Africa is one huge nation? or do you think that he went from country to country writing checks that he hoped wouldn't bounce? what with those unfunded wars and prescription drug plans and aid to Israel and Egypt... and and and... his HUGE AIDS program for Africa.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I really like Trey Gowdy. He is so right, he tells it like it is. The media is not doing its job. Obama is calling it a phony scandal, and it was so long ago, because only a few seem to care why four Americans were killed.
> 
> When will America realize we are getting a "snow" job.


I think you believe anything that is anti Obama, no matter what it is. If he said the sky is blue, you would say he was lying.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think you believe anything that is anti Obama, no matter what it is. If he said the sky is blue, you would say he was lying.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ObamaCare Is Dead
> By DICK MORRIS
> Published on DickMorris.com on December 20, 2013
> 
> ...


Yaaaay! single payer


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Yaaaay! single payer


Ditto!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really believe that none of the enmity shown by the right is racist? You personally may not be a racist; I haven't seen you defend the waving of the Confederate flag practically in his face, as others here have done. But if you deny there's any racism in the crap that's been thrown at him since he won his first election, maybe you should be sent to a FEMA re-education camp. (Joke, in case your humor gland was removed.)


I never said that racism doesn't exist toward Obama. For a small portion of the population it does and nothing will change their views. For the majority of people waving the race card since Obama's election, it has gotten to the point of stupidity. Everything and anything is labeled racist. How much longer are the left going to cry wolf?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't get this. Are you arguing with Knitry, who said the First Lady doesn't receive remuneration? Or did you think she said the opposite? Or have you decided that the First Lady _should_ be paid? Or did you forget what you were responding to?


I saying that the position of First Lady is not a salaried position and maybe it should be for the amount of work and time that is required of her.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The shutdown could have been avoided but the Democrats would have nothing to do with it. If they had delayed Obamacare then, there would have been no shutdown. Instead, 2 months later, all kinds of delays are being granted to the law. It was unnecessary but at least POTUS got to blame the Republicans.


The Republicans wanted the shutdown, Obamacare has problems, every new program had it's troubles, anything can be fixed except the dogged obstructionism of the Republicans.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Bet you didn't think that when Laura Bush was First Lady.....
> 
> You must have a back yard full of dead horses at your house.....try a new subject.....you keep picking up on all the old ones.....and as I've noticed you never pick up on any that might take a lot of mental fortitude....


Whoever coined the phrase "You can't fix stupid" certainly had you in mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said that racism doesn't exist toward Obama. For a small portion of the population it does and nothing will change their views. For the majority of people waving the race card since Obama's election, it has gotten to the point of stupidity. Everything and anything is labeled racist. How much longer are the left going to cry wolf?


We disagree on how big your "small portion of the population" is. Racism is a lot more prevalent than you think. When it really is limited to your small portion, I'll stop pointing it out.

And if the ACA gets going and does no damage, will you stop crying wolf?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said that racism doesn't exist toward Obama. For a small portion of the population it does and nothing will change their views. For the majority of people waving the race card since Obama's election, it has gotten to the point of stupidity. Everything and anything is labeled racist. How much longer are the left going to cry wolf?


No need to cry wolf, racism is alive and well in the USA.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I saying that the position of First Lady is not a salaried position and maybe it should be for the amount of work and time that is required of her.


If you say that's what you meant, so be it. But should the salary be paid even if the first lady is Michelle Obama?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Whoever coined the phrase "You can't fix stupid" certainly had you in mind.


Does that mean you have no answer?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said that racism doesn't exist toward Obama. For a small portion of the population it does and nothing will change their views. For the majority of people waving the race card since Obama's election, it has gotten to the point of stupidity. Everything and anything is labeled racist. How much longer are the left going to cry wolf?


You don't even have any idea if it is the same people identifying certain actions as racist. 
An example would be that as a person who has been insulated from "dog whistle" type behavior I don't often recognize that form when it takes place. 
I do see bigotry present in employment situations. That is the form that I saw racism take. 
Others recognize other examples. When someone points out how it is working, then those of us who are willing to accept other's experience go with it. 
Does it mean that each time someone thinks it is present that is the absolute truth? Or does it mean that each time somebody says this "doesn't pass the smell test" you should at least think about it rather than dismiss it out of hand?
It doesn't take a large number of people who are racists to join with a number of people who are hard line no gov't folks to keep gov't from running. Where are we if nobody governs? Where?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The liberals have to resort to using the race card when they can't defend his policies. They figure this is the way to show their support of those policies, (because they are showing a united front whether right or wrong) without actually supporting them. It gets the Democrats off the hook.


I wish you would produce this race card so that we could start passing it around, taking turns would be so much more fun. 
Who can defend policies when objectors are attentive not to the workings of the nation's gov't but that the First Lady wears the same style underwear as anyone else who is her age? or what style dress she wears for a freaking acceptance speech. 
Hell, I don't even know if she did wear a dress- never mind what it looked like.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


Playing the race card, eh Solowey?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Playing the race card, eh Solowey?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama just gave up what he went to the Supreme Court to win. No more fines for not having health insurance on Jan 1, 2013.


That was last January, dear.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Yaaaay! single payer


Exactly my feelings--those bottom-feeding insurance companies need to hit the road.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson or Allen West for President!!!!!


HAHAHAAAAAAA


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/business/new-health-law-frustrates-many-in-middle-class.html


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> The Republicans wanted the shutdown, Obamacare has problems, every new program had it's troubles, anything can be fixed except the dogged obstructionism of the Republicans.


Ditto!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/business/new-health-law-frustrates-many-in-middle-class.html


Interesting article, Yarnie--thanks for posting. I agree that middle-class families who miss qualifying for a health care subsidy by a hair are feeling the squeeze. It reminds me of the college tuition crunch that some families face--too high an income to qualify for scholarships or much financial aid, too little to pay a yearly tuition bill of 10K+. I'm not sure what the answer is except that I feel health care is vital and should be among the top three items in everyone's budget (the other two of course being housing and food).


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Condi Rice, Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson or Allen West for President!!!!!


Lord help us! I'm off to Canada.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lord help us! I'm off to Canada.


Not far enough--I vote for the North Pole. Santa could probably use some extra hands. LOL


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Playing the race Card??


...more like playing the raging nut card.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Playing the race Card??


Don't they always?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interesting article, Yarnie--thanks for posting. I agree that middle-class families who miss qualifying for a health care subsidy by a hair are feeling the squeeze. It reminds me of the college tuition crunch that some families face--too high an income to qualify for scholarships or much financial aid, too little to pay a yearly tuition bill of 10K+. I'm not sure what the answer is except that I feel health care is vital and should be among the top three items in everyone's budget (the other two of course being housing and food).


Or any darned squeeze that people will feel, when someone goes from being dependent on assistance in supporting their children fully to working, even at a decent wage, it is a shock. When people have had subsidized housing and earn their way out of it, there is a shock. 
We have all felt it one way or another. 
It is not caused by a requirement to pay for health care, however, it is caused by owners of companies thinking that it is OK to make hundreds of times more than their workers are paid. 
It is the devaluing of the American worker that causes this difficulty not the expectation that people will be prepared for a calamity. 
How many people have the recommended 6 months of emergency savings put away? How many of those who did in 2008 and 2009 were darned happy that they had planned ahead? 
The people complaining about some form of responsibility for ourselves and the other people who travel this earth with us have things backward. 
It is the people working toward a plutocracy who are the ones to be arguing with. Let's get to work.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Short version: "Don't have a link"


Shorter version: "Won't bother."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Or any darned squeeze that people will feel, when someone goes from being dependent on assistance in supporting their children fully to working, even at a decent wage, it is a shock. When people have had subsidized housing and earn their way out of it, there is a shock.
> We have all felt it one way or another.
> It is not caused by a requirement to pay for health care, however, it is caused by owners of companies thinking that it is OK to make hundreds of times more than their workers are paid.
> It is the devaluing of the American worker that causes this difficulty not the expectation that people will be prepared for a calamity.
> ...


You are far too logical, Jelun. I guess people who are shielding the wealthy time and time again don't realize that democracy is being eroded by wealth and power being held by the top echelon. They continually attack the poor of this country for being "takers." Never mind that the biggest takers are those wealthy individuals who have the tax advantages and loopholes that enable them to keep their wealth while the rest of us support them with our hard work and the taxes we pay. Whenever the suggestion is made to tax the rich there is a hue and cry from conservatives and the TP. "You're picking on someone who makes more money than you. You're jealous." I will never understand this attitude that is held by so many who are nowhere near the top wealth-holders. Yes, darn it, make them pay. Make them feel what it's like to lose a percentage of their wealth the way the rest of us have to. With wealth comes power, and rather than worry that this country is headed towards socialism, they should open their eyes to what is really going on. Too many Americans have forgotten the phrase about the "common good."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Or any darned squeeze that people will feel, when someone goes from being dependent on assistance in supporting their children fully to working, even at a decent wage, it is a shock. When people have had subsidized housing and earn their way out of it, there is a shock.
> We have all felt it one way or another.
> It is not caused by a requirement to pay for health care, however, it is caused by owners of companies thinking that it is OK to make hundreds of times more than their workers are paid.
> It is the devaluing of the American worker that causes this difficulty not the expectation that people will be prepared for a calamity.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You are far too logical, Jelun. I guess people who are shielding the wealthy time and time again don't realize that democracy is being eroded by wealth and power being held by the top echelon. They continually attack the poor of this country for being "takers." Never mind that the biggest takers are those wealthy individuals who have the tax advantages and loopholes that enable them to keep their wealth while the rest of us support them with our hard work and the taxes we pay. Whenever the suggestion is made to tax the rich there is a hue and cry from conservatives and the TP. "You're picking on someone who makes more money than you. You're jealous." I will never understand this attitude that is held by so many who are nowhere near the top wealth-holders. Yes, darn it, make them pay. Make them feel what it's like to lose a percentage of their wealth the way the rest of us have to. With wealth comes power, and rather than worry that this country is headed towards socialism, they should open their eyes to what is really going on. Too many Americans have forgotten the phrase about the "common good."


Wow! You make it so clear, it should be impossible to believe otherwise.

But did you miss Joeysomma's claim that there are no loopholes? And that it's jealousy or envy that makes us want them to give back more to the country that allowed them to make such fortunes in the first place?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitry
> 
> For some reason, the system wouldn't quote your message, which is an extraordinary look at how racism can be obvious yet unperceived by the people who don't want to see it.
> 
> Really good.


Thank you very much.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny you should mention Laura Bush. I was watching the news today about the "boy with affluenza" and she sprang to mind. She also killed someone in a car accident and never went to jail for it. She ran a stop sign. I guess money buys all justice in Texas.


So true. I'd forgotten about that. There was a boyfriend involved -- I don't remember he was the one killed or was in the car with her. I'd google it if I weren't so tired of googling things for this thread. ;-)


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow! You make it so clear, it should be impossible to believe otherwise.
> 
> But did you miss Joeysomma's claim that there are no loopholes? And that it's jealousy or envy that makes us want them to give back more to the country that allowed them to make such fortunes in the first place?


What they say about envy and jealousy is total baloney and doesn't deserve a response.
How about just doing "what's right" once in awhile? Why is it so hard to understand?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks, Susan --

STILL not taxpayer money, is it?



susanmos2000 said:


> I believe--no, KNOW--she hasn't a clue. But there is this (from Wikipedia):
> 
> The Henry G. Freeman Jr. Pin Money Fund, is the operating name of an annuity fund of the Henry G. Freeman Jr. Trust, benefiting first ladies of the United States. Begun in 1912, as part of the will of Henry G. Freeman Jr., a prominent Philadelphia real estate developer.
> Freeman believed that the U.S president was paid a "miserable pittance", and that a way of increasing his income while avoiding the appearance of political gifts was to institute an annuity to be paid "to the lady termed the first lady in the land; that is, the President of the United States [sic] wife, or anyone representing the president as such, should he not be married or should she die during his administration." Freeman's will specified that the money be for the first lady's "own and absolute use" and the payments "shall continue in force as long as this glorious government exists."
> The fund became active in November 1989 during the administration of George H.W. Bush, but due to a court dispute the first payments were not made until December 1992. Barbara Bush received US $36,000.00 retroactively and donated a portion to her charity work, and spent an unspecified amount doing "something nice for my grandchildren." First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton and First Lady Laura Bush have donated the payments to charity. The income is taxable, and the fund is overseen by Wachovia Trust Services.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have already told you it was on one of the first tax returns they put online. There was an explanation of the amounts that were put on the tax form. Now that was almost 5 years ago. Good luck hunting.
> 
> Some one found it!


Yes, someone (Susan) did.

You are starting to look either incapable of the simple task of using Google, or simply too lazy to do so the way you keep wanting to foist it off on others. Neither excuses, frankly, are very attractive.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They play the race card again and again because they cannot refute the horrible failure 90% of his policies have been. I don't care if the man has polka-dots, a failed idea or policy is a failed idea or policy. So instead of working towards a solution and resolution of a failed policy, the Dems and Libs place blame based on skin color. The Dems/Libs are the very definition, and _only_ definition of a racist; to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim.


*"to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim."*

Such wonderfully screwed up syntax I just had to point it out. Is English your 2nd language? Or did you perhaps go to school with Sarah Palin?

And, of course, thoroughly incorrect. But you knew that. Racist, too, probably. But if it gives you some comfort -- and most of all, a certain amoug camouflage for your wicked ways (or so you think) -- then I'd hardly be able to talk you out of it, would I?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> She has a set amount of money for her to spend just because she is First Lady. It comes from a special fund. That info is from one of the first tax returns that was put online.


I'm just going to add this again, now that Susan has generously looked up a credible cite:

NO TAXPAYER MONEY INVOLVED No salary either, of course.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


Yes, it is pathetic, but it says far more about them and their poor manners, poor citizenship, poor decorum than Mrs. Obama.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again, yes there is, their policies are destroying our country. Pretty pathetic when HS athletes mock the First Ladies school lunch program on YouTube. Pajama boy, Obama the Obamacare rapper.....so many to choose from and so little time


Yes, it is pathetic, but it says far more about them and their poor manners, poor citizenship, poor decorum than Mrs. Obama.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What they say about envy and jealousy is total baloney and doesn't deserve a response.
> How about just doing "what's right" once in awhile? Why is it so hard to understand?


They've forgotten what it means, except when one of their religious leaders tells them what's right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> *"to consider a person's skin color for the responsibility of actions of whatever the claim."*
> 
> Such wonderfully screwed up syntax I just had to point it out. Is English your 2nd language? Or did you perhaps go to school with Sarah Palin?
> 
> And, of course, thoroughly incorrect. But you knew that. Racist, too, probably. But if it gives you some comfort -- and most of all, a certain amoug camouflage for your wicked ways (or so you think) -- then I'd hardly be able to talk you out of it, would I?


Marvelous. But how can you expect proper syntax from someone who uses language mostly to insult others?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But I thought lying was a sin. How could they not care, all those pious right-thinking , um, liars?


Well, you see, that figures right in to what I posted about my recent thinking about some religions. Congregants are trained to not just accept lies but pass them on, and so lying must be seen as okay. Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay.

We all have built-in B.S. Detectors, but when we are required again and again to override them, they become inoperable or untrustworthy or turned in the wrong direction (as evidenced by the fact that the rightwing thinks --they've been taught -- that everyone on the left is a liar).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, you see, that figures right in to what I posted about my recent thinking about some religions. Congregants are trained to not just accept lies but pass them on, and so lying must be seen as okay. Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay.
> 
> We all have built-in B.S. Detectors, but when we are required again and again to override them, they become inoperable or untrustworthy or turned in the wrong direction (as evidenced by the fact that the rightwing thinks --they've been taught -- that everyone on the left is a liar).


Desensitized, are they? What an interesting idea.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Thanks, Susan --
> 
> STILL not taxpayer money, is it?


No, it most definitely is not. Nice idea, however--the man who set this up must have been a prince. I always do have some sympathy for first ladies--that's a position you couldn't pay me enough to take on.

Kind of funny, though--it doesn't sound like there were any provisions made for First Gentlemen, ever. Guess in 1912 it was inconceivable that a woman could ever be President. It would have been interesting to catch this fellow's reaction (may he rest in peace) if the argument was ever made that Bill Clinton should receive some "pin" money as President Hillary Clinton's spouse.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Best Description Of Barack Obama Ever
> Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler
> 
> Jack Wheeler is a brilliant man who was the author of Reagan's strategy to break the back of the Soviet Union with the star wars race and expose their inner weakness. For years he wrote a weekly intelligence update that was extremely interesting and well structured and informative. He consults(ed) with several mega corporations on global trends and the future, etc. He is in semi-retirement now. He is a true patriot with a no-nonsense approach to everything. He is also a somewhat well-known mountain climber and adventurer.
> ...


How many other descriptions has Mr. Wheeler written of President Barack Obama?

Who cares that the weekly report was extremely interesting? Was he earning credits for Creative Writing 202?
How about providing a source?, I ask ever so patiently. 
What is it that you don't understand about that?
It is so very simple "copy, paste" easy peasy.

So it turns out that the man is a raving loon. The article was written in 2008, and once again Snopes come through to lend some perspective.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wheeler.asp

It appears that the good PhD holder does not like many people who run for high federal office.

Smart RA Lifestyle Tips Adult ADHD and the Workplace ADHD and Romantic Relationships

by Carla G.
Member since:
September 19, 2006
Dr. Jack Wheeler Regarding Obama--And John McCain
October 05, 2008 05:15 PM EDT (Updated: October 05, 2008 05:33 PM EDT)
views: 1782 | comments: 33
Some of you may have gotten one of those little mass email messages from Republican friends which includes an article written by Jack Wheeler, a conservative Republican who writes for World Net Daily. In his article, Mr. Wheeler talks about how Obama is an "empty suit". He also makes other derogatory comments about Obama. But this isn't the only derogatory article that Mr. Wheeler has written. Below is an article that he wrote, which is even more scathing, about John McCain.

He writes: "I would not in any circumstances vote for John McCain, not if either Hillary or Obamawere the alternative." Read the article to see why. And if any of your friends send you the email about Obama, send them this article about McCain. -- Carla

February 04, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

By Jack Wheeler
© 2008

The number of fellow senators who think John McCain is psychologically unstable is large. Some will admit it publicly, like Thad Cochran who says, "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine."

Others relate times when McCain screamed four-letter obscenities right in their faces in the Senate cloak room, like Dick Shelby, Rick Santorum or Jim Inhofe. "The man is unhinged," one senator told me. "He is frighteningly unfit to be commander-in-chief."

That John McCain is clinically nuts is scary enough. What worries a small group of GOP senators and congressmen even more is a deep and dark skeletal secret in McCain's glorified past to which they are privy, and which the Clintons will use to blackmail him.

They have been having discussions with a Russian whom we'll call "T" for translator. T's father was the Soviet military intelligence officer who ran the "Hanoi Hilton" prison holding captured Americans during the Vietnam War. One of those prisoners was John McCain. The GRU - Glavnoje Razvedyvatel'noje Upravlenije or main intelligence directorate of the Soviet (now Russian) Armed Forces - operated the entire North Vietnamese prison system holding American prisoners of war. GRU officers, all of whom were Russians, oversaw the interrogation of every American POW.

The interrogations themselves were conducted by Vietnamese who spoke some English. After each interrogation session, which could often include torturing the prisoners at the direction of the GRU officers, the Vietnamese interrogator would write a report of the session - in Vietnamese.

These reports had to be translated into Russian. T, a bright teenager living in the GRU compound in Hanoi, had become fluent in Vietnamese, and ended up translating many of the reports and interrogators' notes.

http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977468900


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't get this. Are you arguing with Knitry, who said the First Lady doesn't receive remuneration? Or did you think she said the opposite? Or have you decided that the First Lady _should_ be paid? Or did you forget what you were responding to?


Thank you -- I went thru that same dance in my head and decided just to slide on by and not respond at all instead of trying to sort it out.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Best Description Of Barack Obama Ever
> Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler
> 
> Jack Wheeler is a brilliant man who was the author of Reagan's strategy to break the back of the Soviet Union with the star wars race and expose their inner weakness. For years he wrote a weekly intelligence update that was extremely interesting and well structured and informative. He consults(ed) with several mega corporations on global trends and the future, etc. He is in semi-retirement now. He is a true patriot with a no-nonsense approach to everything. He is also a somewhat well-known mountain climber and adventurer.
> ...


_

Good gosh, Joey--how many of us have the privilege of choosing our own birth names? He is what his parents named him. Are you going to argue that, as a grown man, he should have changed his name to hide his Kenyan and/or Arabic ancestry?_


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good gosh, Joey--how many of us have the privilege of choosing our own birth names? He is what his parents named him. Are you going to argue that, as a grown man, he should have changed his name to hide his Kenyan and/or Arabic ancestry?


That would give them another reason to call him a liar. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That would give them another reason to call him a liar. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


Exactly. The GOP would have had a field day if it had come out that "Barnard O' Toole" (or whatever) was born "Barack Obama".


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good gosh, Joey--how many of us have the privilege of choosing our own birth names? He is what his parents named him. Are you going to argue that, as a grown man, he should have changed his name to hide his Kenyan and/or Arabic ancestry?


I would like to know who wrote the end of that piece since Jack Wheeler wrote it prior to the '08 election. 
An addendum? Wouldn't that be noted?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the part that is so much more important than ancestry: (other than he misrepresented his ancestry).
> 
> _The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance._
> 
> He demonstrates this each time he opens his mouth.


Give me a break. He's an African-American man from a working-class family who got degrees from Columbia and Harvard, was elected to both the Illinois and the US Senate, and is now President of the United States. He should be poster boy for the pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps crowd.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the part that is so much more important than ancestry: (other than he misrepresented his ancestry).
> 
> _The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance._
> 
> He demonstrates this each time he opens his mouth.


But it's all nonsense. I can't testify to his knowledge of economics or whether he has balls (though he seems to have fathered two children), but the rest is lies.

No wonder you believe it and think it's wonderful.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is the part that is so much more important than ancestry: (other than he misrepresented his ancestry).
> 
> _The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance._
> 
> He demonstrates this each time he opens his mouth.


" no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance." Sounds a lot like you Joey


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

And yet he got elected, not once but twice. Thanks to those that did not think it was important to vote for freedom and those that were willing to give up their freedoms for entitlements.

Remember you don't have to be on a southern plantation to be a slave, if you are dependent on government entitlements you just have a DIFFERENT slave owner.

joeysomma


I am asking again, who wrote the second part of this "article" you claim is by Jack Wheeler? The man was DEAD by the time President Obama was elected the second time. 
He was the person found in a Deleware landfill a couple of years ago.
And speaking of being dependent on gov't entitlements, I do believe he was collecting a pension from the US gov't. LOL. I do love it!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So he says, no proof. He has sealed everything. So unless he released college records, real birth certificate, passport records, draft card and everything else he has sealed.
> 
> I will NEVER believe him. To many lies.


Translation: I REFUSE to believe it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break. He's an African-American man from a working-class family who got degrees from Columbia and Harvard, was elected to both the Illinois and the US Senate, and is now President of the United States. He should be poster boy for the pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps crowd.


I agree, except for "working-class family." Wasn't his mother an anthropologist or something else academic?

It is, however, shocking what they are willing to believe about him. I've never heard them complain about the drones he's sending out all over, or other things I find distasteful, but his name? Those other made-up accusations. The most obvious lies satisfy them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> " no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance." Sounds a lot like you Joey


But she can quote chapter and verse from the IRS handbook.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the part that is so much more important than ancestry: (other than he misrepresented his ancestry).
> 
> _The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance._
> 
> He demonstrates this each time he opens his mouth.


Come on, Joey--you can do better than citing the opinions the certifiable Wheeler. I'm no fan of McCain, but to claim that he spent his POW years frolicking with prostitutes in Hanoi is appalling. He went through hell, and everyone knows it.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But she can quote chapter and verse from the IRS handbook.


And Ted Cruz can quote The Cat in the Hat!!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I agree, except for "working-class family." Wasn't his mother an anthropologist or something else academic?
> 
> It is, however, shocking what they are willing to believe about him. I've never heard them complain about the drones he's sending out all over, or other things I find distasteful, but his name? Those other made-up accusations. The most obvious lies satisfy them.


It is sad, isn't it? 
The things that President Obama is continuing in our names that are moral cesspools are ignored by the uber rightwing dog dinners, but let him want a bit of privacy about his college grades... LOL, the man was not just ON the Harvard Law Review but President. That's just not good enough.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S: And Ted Cruz can quote The Cat in the Hat!!!



Yes, it was a stunning performance--truly jaw-dropping.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said that racism doesn't exist toward Obama. For a small portion of the population it does and nothing will change their views. For the majority of people waving the race card since Obama's election, it has gotten to the point of stupidity. Everything and anything is labeled racist. How much longer are the left going to cry wolf?


The problem is that there is sooooo much racism that the right simply doesn't accept or recognize as racism. And guess what? They lose. Whites aren't the ones who get to define what racism is or isn't. Those who are affected by it get to define what it is for the rest of us. Racists or those who harbor racist sentiments don't really WANT to hear about it, so they are the ones accusing us of crying wolf. They can't -- WON'T -- recognize and acknowledge racism when it exists, so are hardly in a position to insist any given thing isn't racist.

So yeah, I'm sure there's a LOT that gets labeled "racism" that you think is all wet -- and you'd be wrong, as a rule.

Let me give you an example. I worked as Personnel Manager for a division of a large company that was required, back then (late 1970s), to have an Affirmative Action program since we had government contracts.

That entailed comparing our employment stats with the makeup of local population and then taking "affirmative" steps to correct populations underrepresented on our roles.

And before I go any further. let me debunk a popular but grossly wrong myth straightaway: No one EVER had to hire "unqualified" people under AA programs. And if they did, it was their own stupidity, period. What WAS required was that we look for people in protected classes who would meet our minimum qualifications for any given job -- and if they did meet our written specifications for what was "qualified," then we had no excuse not to hire them. But if they weren't qualified, we weren't under ANY obligation to even consider them.

So, it was clearly understood that if our workforce didn't roughly mirror the makeup of the local population from which we drew workers, that alone was proof of racism and sexism. No one ever had to THINK, let alone say, any sexist or racist thing about not wanting to hire "those people." The proof was in the pudding. Most of those who were guilty of bigotry in their hiring and promotional decisions would never have thought of themselves as racist (or if they actually did know they were in their heart of hearts, didn't consider it a "bad" thing).

Now, if you just sit and think for a few minutes of all the "reasons" this whole scenario is "unfair," and "not right" and "not the best thing" you will uncover attitudes that are (for the most part or entirely) racist and bigoted, but which have been used as justifications for hiring discrimination pretty much through the ages. But that's what they are: merely justifications and rationalizations to cover up the underlying bigotry.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am so sad that Claire Davis has died. My heart just breaks for her and her family.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I saying that the position of First Lady is not a salaried position and maybe it should be for the amount of work and time that is required of her.


There's something we can agree on.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I agree, except for "working-class family." Wasn't his mother an anthropologist or something else academic?
> 
> It is, however, shocking what they are willing to believe about him. I've never heard them complain about the drones he's sending out all over, or other things I find distasteful, but his name? Those other made-up accusations. The most obvious lies satisfy them.


She was still going to school when he was in high school, though. That is where they get the "she abandoned him to his grandparents" thing. She left him with them while she studied. He may not have even been working class for a portion of that time that she was going to school. I have no idea how long his mother was married to that Indonesian gentleman. Since no, I don't worship him, no I have not read his books, no I have not enriched him... where did that Messiah thing come from?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am so sad that Claire Davis has died. My heart just breaks for her and her family.


Darn. I really hoped she'd pull through. Her family must be devastated.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Darn. I really hoped she'd pull through. Her family must be devastated.


I was hoping that she would pull through, too. Yes, devastated. I am so sad for the family. I thought she'd make it.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The liberals have to resort to using the race card when they can't defend his policies. They figure this is the way to show their support of those policies, (because they are showing a united front whether right or wrong) without actually supporting them. It gets the Democrats off the hook.


I think those on the Left here have been very policy-oriented in our discussions. WE are the ones, for the most part, posting resources and links, asking for links and validation of unsupported claims made by others, and in general QUITE willing to engage in discussions about policy.

Most have acceded that they don't support Obama on everything. Most have agreed the ACA rollout had serious problems.

Mostly what we objected to in our charges of racism have been the visceral hatred and unreasonable criticism NOT of policies -- though the LIES about policies are definitely INcluded because there's an ulterior agenda on the part of those feeding you the lies -- but of other things about him and Michelle.

Discussions that criticize his policies cleanly -- that is, without dragging him through the mud or making personal attacks on him -- are probably not racist.

So let's see some more of that -- clean policy criticisms, no lies and no personal attacks.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I was hoping that she would pull through, too. Yes, devastated. I am so sad for the family. I thought she'd make it.


Well, at least we can assume she died with her family around her. That must have been some comfort.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I mean how flawed is that website? It was down for "scheduled maintenance" for hours just prior to Obama's attempt to tell Americans how good it is. There is no way it was scheduled for maintenance for several hours before a scheduled press conference, in the middle of the day, 3 days before the deadline for signup happens.


I guess you missed this when I posted it before:



> 2/4/2013
> *The Massive Republican Campaign to Sabotage the Affordable Care Act*
> Posted: 11/20/2013 3:21 pm
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-massive-republican-ca_b_4311424.html
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, at least we can assume she died with her family around her. That must have been some comfort.


She was surrounded by her family.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lord help us! I'm off to Canada.


Can I come too?

One thing, though. These people may get through the primaries, but they couldn't win a General Election. Well, Condi might, except that I'm not sure she could overcome her lies about 9-11 and "mushroom clouds" and such.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She was surrounded by her family.


I don't believe in the death penalty, but in this case I'm glad that little punk did the right thing and ended his own life. Smart move--he wouldn't have lasted fifteen minutes in prison.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't believe in the death penalty, but in this case I'm glad that little punk did the right thing and ended his own life. Smart move--he wouldn't have lasted fifteen minutes in prison.


I just don't know why the parents of the kids who kill like this don't know what is going on with their children. How can they be so tuned out.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I just don't know why the parents of the kids who kill like this don't know what is going on with their children. How can they be so tuned out.


You seem to forget the state of mental health services in this nation. Several of the people who have committed horrendous crimes have been in treatment or sought treatment and been turned away. 
Just recently there was that case in either MD or DE in which the father, a state legislator, took his son for assessment, the young man was deemed dangerous I believe, and was turned away due to lack of facilities. 
That doesn't negate the fact that if there were no access to weapons in these homes that, especially the very young, would not be able to use a firearm to hurt anyone.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Or any darned squeeze that people will feel, when someone goes from being dependent on assistance in supporting their children fully to working, even at a decent wage, it is a shock. When people have had subsidized housing and earn their way out of it, there is a shock.
> We have all felt it one way or another.
> It is not caused by a requirement to pay for health care, however, it is caused by owners of companies thinking that it is OK to make hundreds of times more than their workers are paid.
> It is the devaluing of the American worker that causes this difficulty not the expectation that people will be prepared for a calamity.
> ...


Well said, well said.

:thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Best Description Of Barack Obama Ever
> Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler
> 
> Jack Wheeler is a brilliant man who was the author of Reagan's strategy to break the back of the Soviet Union with the star wars race and expose their inner weakness. For years he wrote a weekly intelligence update that was extremely interesting and well structured and informative. He consults(ed) with several mega corporations on global trends and the future, etc. He is in semi-retirement now. He is a true patriot with a no-nonsense approach to everything. He is also a somewhat well-known mountain climber and adventurer.
> ...


You -- and he -- lost me completely at "no balls." That's not appropriate language for anything someone intends to be taken seriously, for anyone who wants a scintilla of credibility, and not appropriate for anyone who wants to be considered "brilliant" at anything but bomb-throwing.

Pure malarkey, and I wasn't suprised that Snopes jumped all over it.

See -- here's the thing. You have to bring argumentation to the table that carries a little CREDIBILITY. I tried to lay it out not too long ago what to look for and how to go about being a critical consumer of news and analysis. You open yourself merely to being laughed at when what you post is this much of a -- a nothing.

Even though it probably makes you feel good, it's utterly worthless otherwise.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the part that is so much more important than ancestry: (other than he misrepresented his ancestry).
> 
> _The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance._
> 
> He demonstrates this each time he opens his mouth.


Well, when you're so extremely prejudiced against a person you're pre-convinced there's nothing he could say that would interest you AND that everything he says is going to be a lie, of COURSE that's what you're going to get -- even before he opens his mouth.

As has already been pointed out, though, while this man's inartful words (eloquent tailoring?????) may echo your own sentiments, he has no credibility whatsoever, so it's all meaningless.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I agree, except for "working-class family." Wasn't his mother an anthropologist or something else academic?
> 
> It is, however, shocking what they are willing to believe about him. *I've never heard them complain about the drones he's sending out all over, or other things I find distasteful,* but his name? Those other made-up accusations. The most obvious lies satisfy them.


EXACTLY!

To be honest, there are things Obama has done that very easily could make me support impeachment of him. That is a somewhat extreme position but my anger about them is pretty extreme. There are plenty of other liberals hoppin' mad about some of the things he's done, and still doing.

But the FOOLS on the right don't even seem all that interested in most of them, despite the fact that they're basically indefensible.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> And Ted Cruz can quote The Cat in the Hat!!!


And not understand it a bit!

ROFL

:XD:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Sad to hear about Claire Davis.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You seem to forget the state of mental health services in this nation. Several of the people who have committed horrendous crimes have been in treatment or sought treatment and been turned away.
> Just recently there was that case in either MD or DE in which the father, a state legislator, took his son for assessment, the young man was deemed dangerous I believe, and was turned away due to lack of facilities.
> That doesn't negate the fact that if there were no access to weapons in these homes that, especially the very young, would not be able to use a firearm to hurt anyone.


You make a very valid point, Jelun--gun control and mental health outreach are critical in today's society. A classmate had this to say about the shooter, Karl Pierson (CNN):

"Stutz, an offensive tackle on the football team, had known Pierson since the two shared a human behavior class when Stutz was a freshman and Pierson a sophomore. They worked on a class experiment together in which they went into the community and tried breaking unwritten rules, Stutz said.
"I did think he was a little weird, but I didn't think he was, like, bad weird," Stutz added. "He always kind of talked about how America was a communist country, how the government was, like, trying to take us over and stuff."

Pretty scary, isn't it?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Sad to hear about Claire Davis.


It's terrible. So many lives destroyed--the girl's, her family's, the shooter's family's, the debate coach/librarian's.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just keep your head in the sand. Be quiet about it too.



joeysomma said:


> So he says, no proof. He has sealed everything. So unless he released college records, real birth certificate, passport records, draft card and everything else he has sealed.
> 
> I will NEVER believe him. To many lies.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's probably an old copy and incomplete at that.



Poor Purl said:


> But she can quote chapter and verse from the IRS handbook.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think it's probably an old copy and incomplete at that.


I think that you are probably right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> And Ted Cruz can quote The Cat in the Hat!!!


 :twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> ISo let's see some more of that -- clean policy criticisms, no lies and no personal attacks.


You're a cockeyed optimist. (Source: Oscar Hammerstein III, _South Pacific_, "A Cockeyed Optimist.")


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just don't know why the parents of the kids who kill like this don't know what is going on with their children. How can they be so tuned out.


I can't imagine any mother being able to believe her own angel is actually a murderous lunatic. And telling authorities about it? Hardly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You -- and he -- lost me completely at "no balls." That's not appropriate language for anything someone intends to be taken seriously, for anyone who wants a scintilla of credibility, and not appropriate for anyone who wants to be considered "brilliant" at anything but bomb-throwing.
> 
> Pure malarkey, and I wasn't suprised that Snopes jumped all over it.
> 
> ...


Consider the source. You're trying to reason with a birther. Good luck with that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, when you're so extremely prejudiced against a person you're pre-convinced there's nothing he could say that would interest you AND that everything he says is going to be a lie, of COURSE that's what you're going to get -- even before he opens his mouth.
> 
> As has already been pointed out, though, while this man's inartful words (eloquent tailoring?????) may echo your own sentiments, he has no credibility whatsoever, so it's all meaningless.


I skimmed the thing so fast, I missed the "eloquent." That is hilarious. Imagine if he wore loud shirts.

DH has sometimes asked people trying to convince him to join some cause, "Is there anything you could imagine that would prove you wrong?" A no answer is a clear indication of faith rather than logic at work.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> EXACTLY!
> 
> To be honest, there are things Obama has done that very easily could make me support impeachment of him. That is a somewhat extreme position but my anger about them is pretty extreme. There are plenty of other liberals hoppin' mad about some of the things he's done, and still doing.
> 
> But the FOOLS on the right don't even seem all that interested in most of them, despite the fact that they're basically indefensible.


Why would they want to know what an "Obamacultist" (disgusting fake word) thinks? Even if you're obviously not one.

How much do you want to bet not one of them will remark on your message? They'd have to read it and think, which is too much to expect from them.

Besides (and this should have gone first), it's the very things that make us angry that might convince them he's not so bad after all.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think it's probably an old copy and incomplete at that.


 :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why should she receive renumeration? Any First Lady is in that position because her husband is POTUS. He IS the elected official, she is there only because of him. Yes, the First Lady is expected to do a lot of publicity work, but the position is ONLY a figurehead position. Possibly it should be changed as the First Lady is required to do much for the US at home and abroad and she should be paid a salary for the time she does put into the position.


I suggest anyone who wants to get an idea of how the role of First Ladies has evolved, check out C-Span's program, "First Ladies: Influence and Image". Right now they're showing reruns for a few weeks before starting their second season. The first season ended with Rosalyn Carter and the second season will cover the rest up to Michelle Obama. I watched the program about Martha Washington today and was really mesmerized by the story of the first First Lady.

This series really covers a lot about each First Lady, what she did and how she did it, including the evolving how and why of funding what a First Lady wants to accomplish. I think the series is full of solid, credible information.
http://firstladies.c-span.org/Each program is 90 minutes long so there's plenty of time for in depth portrayals of each First Lady.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree that a parent's inclination is to love their child and put the best spin on the child's actions. In a normal (?) home this usually works its way out.

However, looking back through these murderous homes, I think it takes more denial than I have. Super-isolation, fascination with weaponry, constant problems at school and with peers, writings (yeah, Moms, snoop and get a look at them). Remember, these kids have murderous role models now. They scope out their targets. They amass weapons and ammunition. They kill their families too sometimes.

It's frightening to face. But it's worse not to. IMHO



Poor Purl said:


> I can't imagine any mother being able to believe her own angel is actually a murderous lunatic. And telling authorities about it? Hardly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I skimmed the thing so fast, I missed the "eloquent." That is hilarious. Imagine if he wore loud shirts.
> 
> DH has sometimes asked people trying to convince him to join some cause, "Is there anything you could imagine that would prove you wrong?" A no answer is a clear indication of faith rather than logic at work.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I like that: "a clear indication of faith rather than logic at work." Personally, I favor a logical approach, especially in an open forum like KP. The rumor-ridden magical approach leaves me gnashing my teeth.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I agree that a parent's inclination is to love their child and put the best spin on the child's actions. In a normal (?) home this usually works its way out.
> 
> However, looking back through these murderous homes, I think it takes more denial than I have. Super-isolation, fascination with weaponry, constant problems at school and with peers, writings (yeah, Moms, snoop and get a look at them). Remember, these kids have murderous role models now. They scope out their targets. They amass weapons and ammunition. They kill their families too sometimes.
> 
> It's frightening to face. But it's worse not to. IMHO


You're right, but unless the Mom is as bad as the kid, there's a lot of self-deception as to what the kid's character is like. I don't know whether there's a solution. Making it harder for kids to get guns would help, but that has become nearly impossible. When did it become accepted that one person's right to own guns takes precedence over another's right to live?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're a cockeyed optimist. (Source: Oscar Hammerstein III, _South Pacific_, "A Cockeyed Optimist.")


HAHAHAHAAAA


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I suggest anyone who wants to get an idea of how the role of First Ladies has evolved, check out C-Span's program, "First Ladies: Influence and Image". Right now they're showing reruns for a few weeks before starting their second season. The first season ended with Rosalyn Carter and the second season will cover the rest up to Michelle Obama. I watched the program about Martha Washington today and was really mesmerized by the story of the first First Lady.
> 
> This series really covers a lot about each First Lady, what she did and how she did it, including the evolving how and why of funding what a First Lady wants to accomplish. I think the series is full of solid, credible information.
> http://firstladies.c-span.org/Each program is 90 minutes long so there's plenty of time for in depth portrayals of each First Lady.


Thanks for that, MIB, an interesting look at another sort of progress, I would guess.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I can't imagine any mother being able to believe her own angel is actually a murderous lunatic. And telling authorities about it? Hardly.


Until there is an action for authorities to react to, what could be done?
Authorities meaning the folks at school? You have read the stories of how school officials respond to the least little thing, and I know from personal experience that the school environment is very judgmental. Our little system on Obamacare has become too close and closed at this point to get much response but take a peek out on the other threads on school abuses. They are horrific.
Police cannot do anything without evidence of a crime or conspiracy and therapists are unavailable and ineffective unless the child wants to work on that oppositional disorder or whatever significant issue is at the core. 
The system is stacked against helping a child overcome negatives.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yup. Yup. I am definitely going to buy Putin's opinion on any subject while he is encouraging the maiming of and attacks on his own citizens because of their gender identifications among other things. 
Do you really believe that a man who will put a political opponent into prison in Siberia for 10 years for abuses that have been ignored for a decade or more is a genuine source for reasonable opinion? Get real.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yup. Yup. I am definitely going to buy Putin's opinion on any subject while he is encouraging the maiming of and attacks on his own citizens because of their gender identifications among other things.
> Do you really believe that a man who will put a political opponent into prison in Siberia for 10 years for abuses that have been ignored for a decade or more is a genuine source for reasonable opinion? Get real.


http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/

I thought I'd seen every right-wing nut site there was, but this one does beat all. I simply had no idea that Obama was an HIV+ homosexual, but I believe I'll pass on the site members' advice to flee to Russian and the "Czar of Mercy" (Putin) for safety.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


So you'll believe anything about Obama as long as it's negative, no matter who it comes from? You're not very discriminating, are you?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


My word, you are getting beyond desperate to find something to try to prove your point(s). You are, of course, more than welcome to follow the advice and head off to Putinland.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Well, you see, that figures right in to what I posted about my recent thinking about some religions. Congregants are trained to not just accept lies but pass them on, and so lying must be seen as okay. Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay.
> 
> We all have built-in B.S. Detectors, but when we are required again and again to override them, they become inoperable or untrustworthy or turned in the wrong direction (as evidenced by the fact that the rightwing thinks --they've been taught -- that everyone on the left is a liar).


I don't think you are acknowledging that everything our families expose us to starting from the day we're born gives us our "education" about the world. We have to get to a certain age before we question anything we know, do and believe.

Yes, there are families that subscribe to some pretty weird stuff, some where there's all kinds of abuse, but I think most people try to raise their children to be decent people in their own terms. It looks like brainwashing in some ways, but I think we're only talking about what happens to all of us. We're born to some people who believe and do certain things and they pass all that along to their children.

People who go to church regularly take their children with them The children go to Sunday School and become good Christians or whatever religion their parents subscribe to. Nothing as sinister as brainwashing people to accept that "Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay." is being done.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


Really? Even when you try to post something on your own, you fail. Best to just agree with your cohorts. LL Happy Holidays.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think you are acknowledging that everything our families expose us to starting from the day we're born gives us our "education" about the world. We have to get to a certain age before we question anything we know, do and believe.
> 
> Yes, there are families that subscribe to some pretty weird stuff, some where there's all kinds of abuse, but I think most people try to raise their children to be decent people in their own terms. It looks like brainwashing in some ways, but I think we're only talking about what happens to all of us. We're born to some people who believe and do certain things and they pass all that along to their children.
> 
> People who go to church regularly take their children with them The children go to Sunday School and become good Christians or whatever religion their parents subscribe to. Nothing as sinister as brainwashing people to accept that "Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay." is being done.


I think that the difference may be that in some households the emphasis is on critical thinking...or at least some form of thinking. Other households, or religious bases, will countenance no thinking or questioning of the dogma. 
When people are discouraged from thinking that is indeed a negative. It may not be evaluated as sinister, it certainly could be. 
While I recognize the ease of following the family path it seems pretty sad, be it religion or political outlook, or lifestyle choices, isn't it a plus for people to at least think about their positions?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If you say that's what you meant, so be it. But should the salary be paid even if the first lady is Michelle Obama?


Yes, she is the current first lady.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break. He's an African-American man from a working-class family who got degrees from Columbia and Harvard, was elected to both the Illinois and the US Senate, and is now President of the United States. He should be poster boy for the pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps crowd.


Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for that, MIB, an interesting look at another sort of progress, I would guess.


 C-Span's 'First Ladies" Image and Influence" is definetly that. I repeat, check it out at http://firstladies.c-span.org/. I think people from all the political viewpoints we see in this topic would consider it credible and interesting.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I tend to think taking the "family path" is automatic and creates the larger social system we live in. As social animals, we have the "herd" instinct, and we need it to survive. I think there is a serious lack of critical thinking among almost all American families and the greater American society we're all living in. As someone who took an alternate path in adulthood, I watch the great sea of ordinary Americans with shocked wonder and deep pessimism.


jelun2 said:


> I think that the difference may be that in some households the emphasis is on critical thinking...or at least some form of thinking. Other households, or religious bases, will countenance no thinking or questioning of the dogma.
> When people are discouraged from thinking that is indeed a negative. It may not be evaluated as sinister, it certainly could be.
> While I recognize the ease of following the family path it seems pretty sad, be it religion or political outlook, or lifestyle choices, isn't it a plus for people to at least think about their positions?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you know what Pravda is? Clue: It has nothing to do with Prada.



Lukelucy said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Very biased artical.....


Lukelucy said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/


 :thumbdown:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh, I don't know,....I can think of 4 or 5 who frequent this site, who would do quite nicely in Russia. :wink:



susanmos2000 said:


> http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/16-12-2013/126394-obamacare_corrupt_law-0/
> 
> I thought I'd seen every right-wing nut site there was, but this one does beat all. I simply had no idea that Obama was an HIV+ homosexual, but I believe I'll pass on the site members' advice to flee to Russian and the "Czar of Mercy" (Putin) for safety.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

All depends on how you look at it.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think you are acknowledging that everything our families expose us to starting from the day we're born gives us our "education" about the world. We have to get to a certain age before we question anything we know, do and believe.
> 
> Yes, there are families that subscribe to some pretty weird stuff, some where there's all kinds of abuse, but I think most people try to raise their children to be decent people in their own terms. It looks like brainwashing in some ways, but I think we're only talking about what happens to all of us. We're born to some people who believe and do certain things and they pass all that along to their children.
> 
> People who go to church regularly take their children with them The children go to Sunday School and become good Christians or whatever religion their parents subscribe to. Nothing as sinister as brainwashing people to accept that "Lies and other deceit in the name of Jesus is definitely okay." is being done.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I think that the difference may be that in some households the emphasis is on critical thinking...or at least some form of thinking. Other households, or religious bases, will countenance no thinking or questioning of the dogma.
> When people are discouraged from thinking that is indeed a negative. It may not be evaluated as sinister, it certainly could be.
> While I recognize the ease of following the family path it seems pretty sad, be it religion or political outlook, or lifestyle choices, isn't it a plus for people to at least think about their positions?


I think it is best to use critical thinking skills. They will never desert you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In your opinion.



soloweygirl said:


> Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You mean like when Boehner Wouldn't Hold a Vote to Reopen the Government???

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-02/why-john-boehner-wont-hold-a-vote-to-reopen-the-government

Definitely worth reading.



soloweygirl said:


> Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wonderful corresponding example. Bravo.



Nussa said:


> You mean like when Boehner Wouldn't Hold a Vote to Reopen the Government???
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-02/why-john-boehner-wont-hold-a-vote-to-reopen-the-government
> 
> Definitely worth reading.


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh, I don't know,....I can think of 4 or 5 who frequent this site, who would do quite nicely in Russia. :wink:


Or so they think. :wink:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, we could hope......You know what foreigners are thought of in other countries these days.. :XD:


susanmos2000 said:


> Or so they think. :wink:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, we could hope......You know what foreigners are thought of in other countries these days.. :XD:


So true--and the Russians are especially suspicious of Americans. But hey--I'll help the would-be ex-pats pack and even thrown in some long johns...they'll need them in Novosibirsk, which is where the authors of this site are encouraging folks to settle. ("Russias heartland is also an interesting option for expats pursuing careers in science, as Novosibirsk is one of the more important centers of research in a country with impressive educational standards." )

*retch*


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that the difference may be that in some households the emphasis is on critical thinking...or at least some form of thinking. Other households, or religious bases, will countenance no thinking or questioning of the dogma.
> When people are discouraged from thinking that is indeed a negative. It may not be evaluated as sinister, it certainly could be.
> While I recognize the ease of following the family path it seems pretty sad, be it religion or political outlook, or lifestyle choices, isn't it a plus for people to at least think about their positions?


Yes, it is, but few churches or other organized religious bodies would agree.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So you'll believe anything about Obama as long as it's negative, no matter who it comes from? You're not very discriminating, are you?


Even if your statement about here were true, how is she different from you? Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....? Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists. The only reason they aren't drinking the Kool Aid is because it is probably not covered under Obamacare even if it is a pre-existing condition that has no cure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


You know that's nuts. Why say it?

I've had two friends who went on Welfare when their husbands left them - both were stay-at-home moms - with no job and few supports. One had gone with her husband to California, where he was in graduate school. The other had quit her job in Manhattan to move to Michigan, because her husband had a really good job. Both of these women used whatever support the government provided, but neither stayed on it permanently. Both are doing fine now; in fact, one is an artist who recently had an installation at the Museum of Modern Art. I don't know what would have happened to them without the steady, albeit tiny, payments from Welfare.

That hardly sounds as though they were held down.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Consider the source. You're trying to reason with a birther. Good luck with that.


Guess I am a cockeyed optimist. Actually, I'm a walking contradiction: a really CYNICAL cockeyed optimist.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do you know what Pravda is? Clue: It has nothing to do with Prada.


Doesn't "Pravda" mean truth? So it must be believable, right?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Why would they want to know what an "Obamacultist" (disgusting fake word) thinks? Even if you're obviously not one.
> 
> How much do you want to bet not one of them will remark on your message? They'd have to read it and think, which is too much to expect from them.
> 
> Besides (and this should have gone first), it's the very things that make us angry that might convince them he's not so bad after all.


Sheesh. You've really got these people pegged, I think.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Desensitized, are they? What an interesting idea.


Y

Yes, but if you think about it, that's how propaganda works. It pulls you in and sets you up to buy more.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Hummmm......and some on this site have deemed themselves to be externally educated individuals.....they would fit right in..... :thumbup:


susanmos2000 said:


> So true--and the Russians are especially suspicious of Americans. But hey--I'll help the would-be ex-pats pack and even thrown in some long johns...they'll need them in Novosibirsk, which is where the authors of this site are encouraging folks to settle. ("Russias heartland is also an interesting option for expats pursuing careers in science, as Novosibirsk is one of the more important centers of research in a country with impressive educational standards." )
> 
> *retch*


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Hummmm......and some on this site have deemed themselves to be externally educated individuals.....they would fit right in..... :thumbup:


Oh yes, I'd forgotten that...the TPers are supposed to be scientifically minded...this is a match made in heaven!

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'll bet many of us know people just like your friends, who have needed help at one time. And that little help getting back on their feet was a Godsend. I have had friends like that as well. And as with your friends who needed the help, only used it until they could make it on their own. Which is exactly for which it was intended. :thumbup:



Poor Purl said:


> You know that's nuts. Why say it?
> 
> I've had two friends who went on Welfare when their husbands left them - both were stay-at-home moms - with no job and few supports. One had gone with her husband to California, where he was in graduate school. The other had quit her job in Manhattan to move to Michigan, because her husband had a really good job. Both of these women used whatever support the government provided, but neither stayed on it permanently. Both are doing fine now; in fact, one is an artist who recently had an installation at the Museum of Modern Art. I don't know what would have happened to them without the steady, albeit tiny, payments from Welfare.
> 
> That hardly sounds as though they were held down.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Even if your statement about here were true, how is she different from you? Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....? Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists. The only reason they aren't drinking the Kool Aid is because it is probably not covered under Obamacare even if it is a pre-existing condition that has no cure.


Where is your outrage over the Contras and the CIA--Bush, Iraq, and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction--Ronnie wooing the Iranians behind America's back with a Bible and a cake? Our government has and probably always will try deceive us, but it doesn't bother you a bit if it's a Republican President at the helm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Even if your statement about here were true, how is she different from you? Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....? Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists. The only reason they aren't drinking the Kool Aid is because it is probably not covered under Obamacare even if it is a pre-existing condition that has no cure.


The IRS "scandal" and Benghazi have been shown to be not scandalous at all. Though the Benghazi killings were outrageous and sad, they haven't been shown to be as terrible as you ... keep trying to make them. About the others, why would we express our outrage to you? We all have differently nuanced opinions; you seem to want a sledgehammer every time.

In fact, if you had bothered to read an exchange between Knitry and me, you would have seen how open-eyed our loyalty is. Also, you're the only person who uses that "cultist" made-up word (if you truly did make it up, as you said); there are contexts in which you behave like a cultist, at least according to your own description, but I haven't been so rude as to use the word. You, on the other hand, don't seem able to control yourself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Guess I am a cockeyed optimist. Actually, I'm a walking contradiction: a really CYNICAL cockeyed optimist.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You know,.....I have asked that question to (them) many times, and have yet to have one of them answer it. They have ignored it each and every time......which is very telling....don't you think?????



susanmos2000 said:


> Where is your outrage over the Contras and the CIA--Bush, Iraq, and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction--Ronnie wooing the Iranians behind America's back with a Bible and a cake? Our government has and probably always will try deceive us, but it doesn't bother you a bit if it's a Republican President at the helm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Sheesh. You've really got these people pegged, I think.


Unfortunately.

I keep wishing one of them would say something original. It wouldn't even have to be true, just different. I'm thinking it's about time for me to unwatch.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Do you know what Pravda is? Clue: It has nothing to do with Prada.


LOL!! :roll:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Where is your outrage over the Contras and the CIA--Bush, Iraq, and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction--Ronnie wooing the Iranians behind America's back with a Bible and a cake? Our government has and probably always will try deceive us, but it doesn't bother you a bit if it's a Republican President at the helm.


I don't think it's party that sets them off; some of them insist they're not Repubs. But if you say what it really is, they'll deny it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I'll bet many of us know people just like your friends, who have needed help at one time. And that little help getting back on their feet was a Godsend. I have had friends like that as well. And as with your friends who needed the help, only used it until they could make it on their own. Which is exactly for which it was intended. :thumbup:


And most people use it only temporarily.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


Could you explain how President Obama "keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all."?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Why would they want to know what an "Obamacultist" (disgusting fake word) thinks? Even if you're obviously not one.
> 
> How much do you want to bet not one of them will remark on your message? They'd have to read it and think, which is too much to expect from them.
> 
> Besides (and this should have gone first), it's the very things that make us angry that might convince them he's not so bad after all.





Knitry said:


> Sheesh. You've really got these people pegged, I think.


And my middle paragraph has been proven true by LTL's message to me. She obviously didn't read it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Even if your statement about here were true, how is she different from you? Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....? Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists. The only reason they aren't drinking the Kool Aid is because it is probably not covered under Obamacare even if it is a pre-existing condition that has no cure.


I actually reread this (while holding my nose). I can't even count the ways LL is different from me, so I'll ignore that question.

I simply noticed your sentence "Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as (I refuse to use that word)." My blind loyalty to problems? Care to prove how loyal I am - or anyone else here is - to problems?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Oh, I don't know,....I can think of 4 or 5 who frequent this site, who would do quite nicely in Russia. :wink:


I can only imagine how quickly they would be sent off to the current version of the Gulag since, honestly, they are not satisfied with anything. 
LOL, one week of not being able to procure supplies in the form they NEED and they would be whining and moaning about that gov't control and their loss of rights. 
AAaahhhhh, and gov't control of health care?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Russia

http://cop.health-rights.org/files/f/6/f68e677a2e9b501660f093c5c11b62a3.pdf


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Could you explain how President Obama "keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all."?


He has big feet?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Even if your statement about here were true, how is she different from you? Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....? Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists. The only reason they aren't drinking the Kool Aid is because it is probably not covered under Obamacare even if it is a pre-existing condition that has no cure.


It would seem that you are not paying very close attention, there isn't a day that goes by that someone isn't out demonstrating about all of the issues you mention and more. 
Your insults continue to be doggie dinner, enjoy.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> He has big feet?


HAHAHAAAA


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I can only imagine how quickly they would be sent off to the current version of the Gulag since, honestly, they are not satisfied with anything.
> LOL, one week of not being able to procure supplies in the form they NEED and they would be whining and moaning about that gov't control and their loss of rights.
> AAaahhhhh, and gov't control of health care?
> 
> ...


Yes, and Russia's strict gun control laws would send them into a frenzy. They'd have to leave all those automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the US (flat-out illegal) and probably the handguns as well (no doubt illegal if one happens to be a foreigner).
Religion too--they'd break out their Bibles and start proselytizing then find themselves banished to a dung hut on the Siberian steppes. Russians are Christians, all right--but to them that means the Russian Orthodox church and no other. The Russian government doesn't look kindly on foreign-born Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons et al--especially if they do what comes naturally to them and start trying to convert everyone in sight.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think it's party that sets them off; some of them insist they're not Repubs. But if you say what it really is, they'll deny it.


That's true--it's very hard to come up with a "one name that fits all" for these ultra-conservative gals--the Republicans insist they aren't TPers, and the TPers are equally reluctant to identify themselves as GOP members.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true--it's very hard to come up with a "one name that fits all" for these ultra-conservative gals--the Republicans insist they aren't TPers, and the TPers are equally reluctant to identify themselves as GOP members.


But they all insist they're not r-----s.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true--it's very hard to come up with a "one name that fits all" for these ultra-conservative gals--the Republicans insist they aren't TPers, and the TPers are equally reluctant to identify themselves as GOP members.


It's understandable, really. 
After all, I can say "nope, not a Dem, I am a socialist."
What are they to say? I am not a Republican, I am not a TParty member, I am a RWN?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It's understandable, really.
> After all, I can say "nope, not a Dem, I am a socialist."
> What are they to say? I am not a Republican, I am not a TParty member, I am a RWN?


Works for me!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over the NSA, the Obama lies about Obamacare, IRS scandal, Benghazi, leaving a hostage in Iraq....?
> 
> Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as Obamacultists.


Let me address the last point first. You -- and probably others -- aren't really reading very carefully. Have you ever heard the term "damning with faint praise?" A lot of what you've missed on the part of leftish respondents here has been "damning with NO praise," also known as skirting the issue. That's hardly "blind loyalty" -- at all.

Nor has said skirting been done for deceitful reasons, as skirting often is. We've just had little to nothing to say on some subjects in the way of defense. You know, if you don't have something to say, you just turn your attention to other matters, which hasn't been hard because there've been enough outright lies posted to keep us busy trying to debunk them.

Okay, your issue list:

*the NSA,* - I am outraged beyond belief about the domestic (and international) spying scandal, and gravely worried as well, because these people -- our illustrioius spies -- answer to no one, don't give a flip about the Constitution or the law (or delude themselves about how they apply to them, or both). Our democracy is in grave peril. Obama is either being lied to or in peril himself. Or both. This is something BOTH parties need ti get very involved in, fast. If the intelligence apparatus isn't made to heel and brought under a great deal more control FAST, you can kiss your "freedoms" goodbye. And that's not going to be easy to do since there's so much infrastructure -- incl. a brand new million sq. ft. data warehouse in Utah -- and also including massive privatization to defense contractors. Do you know the NSA lets private contractors do a lot of spying (not unlike consumer corporations) and then buys what they've got so the NSA can avoid those pesky legal hurdles?) Defense contractors are making so much money it's not just cheap and cost effective but a great investment to just go buy a Congressman or ten. Or, if all else fails, I suppose Congressional members could just be reminded of Michael Hastings.

*the Obama lies about Obamacare,* - I don't see that he lied, but was very, very, VERY foolish (reckless) in his use of language and "positining." The cancellations affect such a small, small percentage of the insured, the political people thought it not worth acknowledging. Wrong move, which they may by now understand. I'm annoyed with the whole thing, but definitely not outraged. Besides, I've seen such an out of whack over-reaction by the right to the website problems, that Obama's misdeeds pale in comparison, IMO.

*IRS scandal,* - No "there" there. Nothing to get outraged about, other than Issa's feverish imagination and hyper-partisan waste-the-taxpayer's money government oversight _overreach._

*Benghazi,* -- Ditto.

*leaving a hostage in Iraq....?* Question mark indeed. I don't even have a clue what you're talking about. So I suspect it's yet another manufactured crisis.

Now -- where's YOUR outrage about drones killing innocent civilians and even targeting U.S. citizens?

Where's YOUR outrage that the administration (TSA) is gearing up to allow thousands of drones on American soil? (The courts have ruled that helicopters flying over your backyard are not a privacy violation, so drones wouldn't be either, I bet. And some of those are as small as insects. Not only that, they can take take incredibly distinct photos from 10,000 ft in the air, maybe more.)

Where's YOUR outrage about administration rolling over and playing dead on the BP Oil Spill? I don't know if the Gulf of Mexico will ever recover, but if it does it won't be for several generations. In the meantime, anyone who eats fish and shellfish from the Gulf is ... incredibly stupid, IMO.

Where's YOUR outrage about Obama pushing the Trans Pacific Partnership )TPP) which would basically end our national sovereignty and allow corporations to strike down otherwise perfectly lawful statutes and legislation intended to safeguard and protect the citizenry and the environment. If, for example, you think you ought to have the "freedom" to know what you're eating -- you lose!! There'd be no labeling laws allowed. No laws about what can and cannot be put in our food if some multinational company wanted to challenge it. Remember all those pet food recalls a few years back because of melamine in the food imported from China?? Just a small, small example of the excitement we could have under the TPP.

Where's YOUR outrage with this administration letting the banksters get away with stealing our homes, our pensions, our savings? (This may be changing a little with the recent announcement of some high level investigations and activities -- but I'm in a wait-and-see posture on this.)

Where's YOUR outrage about the escalating economic inequality in the U.S. and the decimation of the middle class?

Where's YOUR outrage, all you patriots, about corporations getting tax breaks for sending our jobs overseas, and getting away with paying ZERO taxes while many of them are simultaneously collecting taxpayer subsidies? Of course, this wasn't Obama's doing, but I don't see him doing nearly enough to change things.

Speaking of which, where's YOUR outrage with how blankety-blank chummy he is with Wall Street?

Were's YOUR outrage that the Department of Homeland Security teamed up with the FBI (and their spying operation or the info they got from the NSA), along with private contractors to spy on, infiltrate and BRUTALLY attack peaceful Occupy protesters?

Where's YOUR outrage that nothing is being done about the ongoing _so far uncontrolled_ Fukushima disaster that has the ability to basically end all life on earth if not contained somehow, and probably soon? The gravity of this problem transcends Japan's ability to cope and makes it a global emergency.

I'm sure there are a number of things I'm forgetting, and I know there are a number I'm just skipping, like Climate Change.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And my middle paragraph has been proven true by LTL's message to me. She obviously didn't read it.


See? You're a mind-reader and a psychic.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes he should. Many voted for him for that reason. Instead he keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all.


Others have called you on this, but let me add my voice to the mix:

By doing what, exactly? And don't forget link(s).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Let me address the last point first. You -- and probably others -- aren't really reading very carefully. Have you ever heard the term "damning with faint praise?" A lot of what you've missed on the part of leftish respondents here has been "damning with NO praise," also known as skirting the issue. That's hardly "blind loyalty" -- at all.
> 
> Nor has said skirting been done for deceitful reasons, as skirting often is. We've just had little to nothing to say on some subjects in the way of defense. You know, if you don't have something to say, you just turn your attention to other matters, which hasn't been hard because there've been enough outright lies posted to keep us busy trying to debunk them.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Knitry, for once again laying it all out so clearly.

I hate to be the joker about this (who am I kidding; I love playing the joker), but once again, how much will you bet that so many of the actions you deplore will be attractive to the RWNs?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> See? You're a mind-reader and a psychic.


Does that mean that I can tell the righties what they're thinking and why they're thinking it? You know, the way they think they can do to us?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, they could go to N. Korea...... Kim Jong Eun does not play favorites there.....he had his Uncle executed as a 'traitor'. I wonder how they'd like to live, knowing that every breath they take, might be they're last? Here.......you are allowed to breath no matter what type of person you are. And President Obama is even trying to help make sure that each breath is a healthy one.....What more could you ask for???? :thumbup:



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, and Russia's strict gun control laws would send them into a frenzy. They'd have to leave all those automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the US (flat-out illegal) and probably the handguns as well (no doubt illegal if one happens to be a foreigner).
> Religion too--they'd break out their Bibles and start proselytizing then find themselves banished to a dung hut on the Siberian steppes. Russians are Christians, all right--but to them that means the Russian Orthodox church and no other. The Russian government doesn't look kindly on foreign-born Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons et al--especially if they do what comes naturally to them and start trying to convert everyone in sight.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I think it is best to use critical thinking skills. They will never desert you.


How do you think people develop critical thinking skills? If the people you depend on until you've at least reached "the age of reason" don't have certain qualities you or I would hope they have, how do children develop a skill they can't imagine?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> All depends on how you look at it.


Well, that sentence says absolutely nothing.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How do you think people develop critical thinking skills? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but if the people you depend on until you've at least reached "the age of reason" don't have certain qualities you or I would hope they have, how do children develop a skill they can't imagine?


One hopes in schools, that is part of the concern in homes that are doing home schooling because of their objection to the environment in public school. There is then that lack of questioning that we have learned to count on for that development.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, that sentence says absolutely nothing.


And yours says what? Take your stress out on a pillow.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Does that mean that I can tell the righties what they're thinking and why they're thinking it? You know, the way they think they can do to us?


LOL -- except you'd clearly be right.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How do you think people develop critical thinking skills? If the people you depend on until you've at least reached "the age of reason" don't have certain qualities you or I would hope they have, how do children develop a skill they can't imagine?


I think skills like logical thinking are not learned by copying others. Logic, at least, is probably hard-wired in the brain, and even infants can make logical inferences.

Critical thinking is an outgrowth of that. You don't need to have it named or demonstrated to you. In fact there are probably many thinking skills that develop even if parents don't teach them to children.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> One hopes in schools, that is part of the concern in homes that are doing home schooling because of their objection to the environment in public school. There is then that lack of questioning that we have learned to count on for that development.


This is a subject that brings out some of my most pessimistic opinions. Schools teach nothing. They are either babysitting operations or juvenile semi-detention facilities. If you send your child to a private school, all you're doing is throwing more of your money than you pay for education in taxes at a fancied up versions of nothing, babysitting and semi-juvenile detention. Oh, and I forgot, schools are also death traps in all too many ways due to no money for maintenance and spontaneous outbreaks of mass shootings, and other great stuff. And then there are the teachers. Who would want to be a teacher? We only get what we pay for.There are a few good teachers in most school districts, but the triumph of the mediocre is the norm.

I don't know if home-schooling teaches any skills. It seems to be a method for highly conservative fundamentalist Christians to indoctrinate their children in their particular brand of lunacy. I'd need to know more about people who home school their children and are also fairly decent, intelligent people to measure how good home schooling is. I will say that if I had a child of public school age nothing in the world would get me to send them to any current public or private school I know of now.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I think skills like logical thinking are not learned by copying others. Logic, at least, is probably hard-wired in the brain, and even infants can make logical inferences.
> 
> Critical thinking is an outgrowth of that. You don't need to have it named or demonstrated to you. In fact there are probably many thinking skills that develop even if parents don't teach them to children.


This brings us back to the nature vs. nurture argument. I think some aspects of logical and critical thinking have to be encouraged and taught.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Where is your outrage over the Contras and the CIA--Bush, Iraq, and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction--Ronnie wooing the Iranians behind America's back with a Bible and a cake? Our government has and probably always will try deceive us, but it doesn't bother you a bit if it's a Republican President at the helm.


I was outraged at the time and was vocal about it. But you are talking about going back to the Regan years with Iran Contra. I truly believe that the intelligence at the time determined there were WMD's (I think the ended up in Syria), and that Bush, the Congress, the Brits and others believed they were there and acted with the grace of Congress in what they believed to be appropriate action.

But what about the broken promise (aka lie) that Obama told the American public that his administration would be the most transparent? He and his administration have lied, parsed and blurred words to deceive the American public.

Something can be done if Libs would voice their displeasure instead of blindly defending the president. Now that would be honest, but alas I do not believe you or your other cult members have the courage to do it.

Tomorrow is another broken (lie) promise, and another deadline will come and go. How will people be covered by the first of the year? Why is it acceptable for people to rebuy their substandard insurance policies when Obama said they were not good enough before the Obamacare train wreck?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This brings us back to the nature vs. nurture argument. I think some aspects of logical and critical thinking have to be encouraged and taught.


Encouragement wouldn't hurt, and if a kid got hit every time s/he stated an original idea, I'm sure that skill would at least be repressed. But there's been very interesting psychological research done that shows infants with well-developed reasoning.

My favorite (and this was done 15 or 20 years ago) involved giving pacifiers to 2 or 3 day old infants. Some were given ones with smooth surfaces, and other were given pacifiers with textured surfaces. Then nurses would put them on opposite sides of the babies. The babies who had had smooth pacifiers would spend more time looking at that one than at the other; similar result held for the textured ones.

In other words, the babies were able to reason out which type of surface they were sucking on, just by looking at them.

I found this mind-blowing.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But what about the broken promise (aka lie) that Obama told the American public that his administration would be the most transparent? He and his administration have lied, parsed and blurred words to deceive the American public.


Yep, AFAIC he's been an enormous disappointment on the transparency issue.



> Something can be done if Libs would voice their displeasure instead of blindly defending the president. Now that would be honest, but alas I do not believe you or your other cult members have the courage to do it.


I guess you didn't see my other post on the subject of outrage? Or did you just choose to ignore it?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So Bush was mistaken......and President Obama is a lair? You can't have it both ways. What you are doing, is picking and choosing what you want to believe. That's what the rest of us are doing. But you tell us we are wrong. Yet, you have no more proof of your perception than we do of ours. I say that President Obama did his best to make his ACA plan work. But when he was stymied at every turn, ACA couldn't possibly go as he planned. His intentions were good. You could say that about Bush and the WMD's. But as I said before, you can't have it both ways, if you're going to be fair.


lovethelake said:


> I was outraged at the time and was vocal about it. But you are talking about going back to the Regan years with Iran Contra. I truly believe that the intelligence at the time determined there were WMD's (I think the ended up in Syria), and that Bush, the Congress, the Brits and others believed they were there and acted with the grace of Congress in what they believed to be appropriate action.
> 
> But what about the broken promise (aka lie) that Obama told the American public that his administration would be the most transparent? He and his administration have lied, parsed and blurred words to deceive the American public.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was outraged at the time and was vocal about it. But you are talking about going back to the Regan years with Iran Contra. I truly believe that the intelligence at the time determined there were WMD's (I think the ended up in Syria), and that Bush, the Congress, the Brits and others believed they were there and acted with the grace of Congress in what they believed to be appropriate action.
> 
> But what about the broken promise (aka lie) that Obama told the American public that his administration would be the most transparent? He and his administration have lied, parsed and blurred words to deceive the American public.


Unfortunately, every Administration has resorted to this--just ask former President "Read my lips" Bush.

And as for your comment that I really had to go back in time to find some examples of Republican chicanery--well, really it's not necessary. The incident that comes most readily to mind is the GOP transcripts of the Benghazi emails that were supposed to blow the lid off the White House and Obama right back to Chicago. Remember everyone's amazement when we did get a look at the originals and found that they had been altered in significant ways? Where was your outrage then that the Republicans twisted and distorted those emails, then brushed off the changes with a shrug and a curt "Close enough"?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unfortunately, every Administration has resorted to this--just ask former President "Read my lips" Bush.
> 
> And as for your comment that I really had to go back in time to find some examples of Republican chicanery--well, really it's not necessary. The incident that comes most readily to mind is the GOP transcripts of the Benghazi emails that were supposed to blow the lid off the White House and Obama right back to Chicago. Remember everyone's amazement when we did get a look at the originals and found that they had been altered in significant ways? Where was your outrage then that the Republicans twisted and distorted those emails, then brushed off the changes with a shrug and a curt "Close enough"?


And even more recent Representative Issa's hearings that are fixed. When he runs these roadshows he is supposed to be representing all of us in his position as Chair.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unfortunately, every Administration has resorted to this--just ask former President "Read my lips" Bush.
> 
> And as for your comment that I really had to go back in time to find some examples of Republican chicanery--well, really it's not necessary. The incident that comes most readily to mind is the GOP transcripts of the Benghazi emails that were supposed to blow the lid off the White House and Obama right back to Chicago. Remember everyone's amazement when we did get a look at the originals and found that they had been altered in significant ways? Where was your outrage then that the Republicans twisted and distorted those emails, then brushed off the changes with a shrug and a curt "Close enough"?


Susan, to admit that Benghazi wasn't the horror they made it out to be would be an admission that Obama is not the worst person in the world, hardly the antichrist they would like him to be. They will never admit that.

However, if you want a few laughs, check out http://www4.ncsu.edu/~ngbetts/nathanielswebpage/Traits.html . This gives the traits of the antichrist and how they relate to Obama. I couldn't get the video to play, so I missed out on what may be the best part, but at least I know that the a-c will be taller than his fellows (Obama is 6'3", which, unfortunately, does not make him taller than everyone in his cabinet, but he's tall enough). The a-c will have a stern face (did you ever see Obama in those pictures where he wasn't smiling? stern, indeed). It even gives his resume. But I'll stop; I shouldn't spoil it for you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

LTL - You really can't have a civil discussion without and insult in it can you? And so you don't ask me "What insult?" I'll copy and paste what you said. 
quote - (but alas I do not believe you or your other CULT members have the courage to do it.) - unquote.
I capitalized the word "cult" so you wouldn't miss it.



lovethelake said:


> I was outraged at the time and was vocal about it. But you are talking about going back to the Regan years with Iran Contra. I truly believe that the intelligence at the time determined there were WMD's (I think the ended up in Syria), and that Bush, the Congress, the Brits and others believed they were there and acted with the grace of Congress in what they believed to be appropriate action.
> 
> But what about the broken promise (aka lie) that Obama told the American public that his administration would be the most transparent? He and his administration have lied, parsed and blurred words to deceive the American public.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> LTL - You really can't have a civil discussion without and insult in it can you? And so you don't ask me "What insult?" I'll copy and paste what you said.
> quote - (but alas I do not believe you or your other CULT members have the courage to do it.) - unquote.
> I capitalized the word "cult" so you wouldn't miss it.


Nussa, I think she's most proud of that word; after all, she (claims she) made up the word ".....cultist" - I refuse to type it - and doesn't even recognize her own membership in the largest and possibly oldest cult still in existence.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Susan, to admit that Benghazi wasn't the horror they made it out to be would be an admission that Obama is not the worst person in the world, hardly the antichrist they would like him to be. They will never admit that.
> 
> However, if you want a few laughs, check out http://www4.ncsu.edu/~ngbetts/nathanielswebpage/Traits.html . This gives the traits of the antichrist and how they relate to Obama. I couldn't get the video to play, so I missed out on what may be the best part, but at least I know that the a-c will be taller than his fellows (Obama is 6'3", which, unfortunately, does not make him taller than everyone in his cabinet, but he's tall enough). The a-c will have a stern face (did you ever see Obama in those pictures where he wasn't smiling? stern, indeed). It even gives his resume. But I'll stop; I shouldn't spoil it for you.


I couldn't bring myself to read all of it, it is astounding isn't it?
This is the type of website our compatriots here are getting their info from. <smh>


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I couldn't bring myself to read all of it, it is astounding isn't it?
> This is the type of website our compatriots here are getting their info from. <smh>


And this is hardly the worst. This one seems to be done by a college student; there are others by adults. In fact, if you Google "obama antichrist proof" hundreds of images show up. Most are silly enough to be laughable, but the situation isn't.

I wonder what shows up if I do the same search with another person's name.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And this is hardly the worst. This one seems to be done by a college student; there are others by adults. In fact, if you Google "obama antichrist proof" hundreds of images show up. Most are silly enough to be laughable, but the situation isn't.
> 
> I wonder what shows up if I do the same search with another person's name.


LOL, depends on the person, I suppose. 
Let's make a list and give it a go. 
I nominate Dick Cheney.

Nope, nothing substantive there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, I've done it, and the results are --- maybe surprising. First,

*I submit that George Walker Bush is the ANTI-CHRIST! 
And finally I have accumulated more-than-enough proof!*

<http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Religion&Spirituality/+Doc-Religion&Spirituality-ReligiousEvil&Strangeness/GeorgeWBushIsTheAntichrist.htm> (this website is based on the next one, which is why I put the next one on this list.)

Next,

*I submit David Hasselhoff is the AntiChrist And I have the proof *

<http://www.esquilax.com/baywatch/>

And last and maybe least,

*DNA Testing Proves Karl Rove a Descendant of Satan*

<http://www.themishmash.com/2008/02/exclusive-karl.html>

I don't know about the first two, but I'm certain the last one is true. I have a lot of reading to do in the next few days.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, depends on the person, I suppose.
> Let's make a list and give it a go.
> I nominate Dick Cheney.
> 
> Nope, nothing substantive there.


Really? Even Karl Rove had something.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? Even Karl Rove had something.


A few blogs mentioned it, most of them went right to his being the devil.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, depends on the person, I suppose.
> Let's make a list and give it a go.
> I nominate Dick Cheney.
> 
> Nope, nothing substantive there.


Did you at least check out these:

Search Results
Is Dick Cheney the antichrist? - Yahoo Answers
answers.yahoo.com  All Categories  Politics & Government  Politics‎
Aug 31, 2011 - no the anti christ would have a massive cult fallowing hence Oprah Winfrey is the Anti-Christ lol.
Is Dick Cheney really THE evil antichrist? - Yahoo ...	1 answer	Jun 2, 2009
Dick Cheney, is he the Harlot or the Antichrist ...	7 answers	Oct 2, 2007
Is Dick Cheney the anti-Christ? - Yahoo! Answers	16 answers	Jun 26, 2007
Is Dick Cheney the Anti-Christ or just a fat guy with ...	27 answers	Aug 19, 2006
More results from answers.yahoo.com


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's the time of year to compose your list of least favorite words. 

Benghazi, Obamacultists, Kool-aid come to my mind right away.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you at least check out these:
> 
> Search Results
> Is Dick Cheney the antichrist? - Yahoo Answers
> ...


I checked out 4, I think, that looked most promising. Nada.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the inspiration.



Poor Purl said:


> You know that's nuts. Why say it?
> 
> I've had two friends who went on Welfare when their husbands left them - both were stay-at-home moms - with no job and few supports. One had gone with her husband to California, where he was in graduate school. The other had quit her job in Manhattan to move to Michigan, because her husband had a really good job. Both of these women used whatever support the government provided, but neither stayed on it permanently. Both are doing fine now; in fact, one is an artist who recently had an installation at the Museum of Modern Art. I don't know what would have happened to them without the steady, albeit tiny, payments from Welfare.
> 
> That hardly sounds as though they were held down.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't speak Russian. Thanks for reminder. Sometimes 'truth' is someone's version of proof, aka propaganda. I prefer truth truth. Call me fussy.



Poor Purl said:


> Doesn't "Pravda" mean truth? So it must be believable, right?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Situation Ethics.



susanmos2000 said:


> Where is your outrage over the Contras and the CIA--Bush, Iraq, and the non-existent weapons of mass destruction--Ronnie wooing the Iranians behind America's back with a Bible and a cake? Our government has and probably always will try deceive us, but it doesn't bother you a bit if it's a Republican President at the helm.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The IRS "scandal" and Benghazi have been shown to be not scandalous at all. Though the Benghazi killings were outrageous and sad, they haven't been shown to be as terrible as you ... keep trying to make them. About the others, why would we express our outrage to you? We all have differently nuanced opinions; you seem to want a sledgehammer every time.
> 
> In fact, if you had bothered to read an exchange between Knitry and me, you would have seen how open-eyed our loyalty is. Also, you're the only person who uses that "cultist" made-up word (if you truly did make it up, as you said); there are contexts in which you behave like a cultist, at least according to your own description, but I haven't been so rude as to use the word. You, on the other hand, don't seem able to control yourself.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The answer is at the bottom of a black hole. Wish I had a list of the questions they ignore. I bet we'd see a common theme.



Nussa said:


> You know,.....I have asked that question to (them) many times, and have yet to have one of them answer it. They have ignored it each and every time......which is very telling....don't you think?????


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Add this to the list of questions that are ignored.



jelun2 said:


> Could you explain how President Obama "keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all."?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I actually reread this (while holding my nose). I can't even count the ways LL is different from me, so I'll ignore that question.
> 
> I simply noticed your sentence "Your blind loyalty to all those problems is why many are referred to as (I refuse to use that word)." My blind loyalty to problems? Care to prove how loyal I am - or anyone else here is - to problems?


Another question that will be ignored.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think Putin's crowd is high on the Russian Orthodox Church either. And, you're right. They don't cotton to dissent.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, and Russia's strict gun control laws would send them into a frenzy. They'd have to leave all those automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the US (flat-out illegal) and probably the handguns as well (no doubt illegal if one happens to be a foreigner).
> Religion too--they'd break out their Bibles and start proselytizing then find themselves banished to a dung hut on the Siberian steppes. Russians are Christians, all right--but to them that means the Russian Orthodox church and no other. The Russian government doesn't look kindly on foreign-born Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons et al--especially if they do what comes naturally to them and start trying to convert everyone in sight.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Rightie tighties?


uh oh, you are in trouble now!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We can do whatever we think has purpose.



Poor Purl said:


> Does that mean that I can tell the righties what they're thinking and why they're thinking it? You know, the way they think they can do to us?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think it's the time of year to compose your list of least favorite words.
> 
> Benghazi, Obamacultists, Kool-aid come to my mind right away.


That's a good start.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Don't speak Russian. Thanks for reminder. Sometimes 'truth' is someone's version of proof, aka propaganda. I prefer truth truth. Call me fussy.


Okay. You're fussy.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here's one for you, Empress Poor Purl, as I toddle off to bed...

http://www.bing.com/search?q=is+ted+cruz+the+antichrist&qs=AS&pq=is+ted+cruz+the+an&sc=8-18&sp=1&FORM=QBLH&cvid=ea323d145d20440c891d6612530f2e0f


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Situation Ethics.


Relativism.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Rightie tighties?


Thank God. I went to have a bowl of soup and look at the newspaper, and when I got back the last page of this thread had gone from 64 to 99, and I thought I'd have to read 35 pages of messages. Fortunately, it was 35 pages of you saying "Rightie tighties?" I hope you don't mind that I skipped a few pages.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Here's one for you, Empress Poor Purl, as I toddle off to bed...
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=is+ted+cruz+the+antichrist&qs=AS&pq=is+ted+cruz+the+an&sc=8-18&sp=1&FORM=QBLH&cvid=ea323d145d20440c891d6612530f2e0f


This was the obvious one.
Pleasant dreams.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

There have been several who have been having double posts and sometimes the send button does not reflect that the message has been sent. Dame, contact Admin about this. I am sure you did not do this on purpose.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So he says, no proof. He has sealed everything. So unless he released college records, real birth certificate, passport records, draft card and everything else he has sealed.
> 
> I will NEVER believe him. To many lies.


Name for me *one* president who has had to show any of the above mentioned documents for any reason. I doubt you will find one.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, it is pathetic, but it says far more about them and their poor manners, poor citizenship, poor decorum than Mrs. Obama.


What's even worse is that she thinks everything she sees on youtube is fact!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk with the name calling
> 
> Do you kiss your grandkids with that mouth?


Repeating other's words from posts do not become you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> In other words, he is trying, but failing, to retract his LIES.


Notice how LIES was capitalized? It's her favorite word and favorite thing to do.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, finally the lame-stream media (not to be confused with those journalists who actually REPORT the news) has been called out for being the lap dogs they were for shilling for Obama. Now what will they do? Already they are complaining Obama no longer gives them access since they began reporting the truth so, naturally, he shut them off.


Thanks again for that useless bit of RWN propaganda.
Try posting something that is factual once in a while.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it that you are the one that makes the racist remark, yet implies that it's coming from LL? It is you that is the racist.


And thank you for that lie.You are beginning to sound like someone of questionable NA background who is no longer posting here.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

galinipper said:


> To try to restrict free thinking and speaking is Fascism, not everyone on here are obama leg humpers. By the way Lakes yarn that she spun was beautiful variegated shades of raspberry, your fixation on her hands and visualizing what the rest of her looks like puts a strange twist on your post.


You are right, not everybody here is an Obama leg humper. In fact I don't know one who is.
However, there are plenty of morons just like you posting all over the site. Take a shot of tidy bowl and rinse out that toilet mouth of yours.
It all depends where your mind is. I would say it is still in the gutter as usual. I know what color the yarn was. I referred to the pic remember? One doesn't have to visualize what she would look like. Her hands and arms were enough to paint the picture. My point was that before criticizing the First Lady about her body and clothes, she should take a good long look in the mirror before she shoots off her mouth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love it too. Sweet dreams.



jelun2 said:


> Here's one for you, Empress Poor Purl, as I toddle off to bed...
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=is+ted+cruz+the+antichrist&qs=AS&pq=is+ted+cruz+the+an&sc=8-18&sp=1&FORM=QBLH&cvid=ea323d145d20440c891d6612530f2e0f


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Patty. I have contacted Admin.



BrattyPatty said:


> There have been several who have been having double posts and sometimes the send button does not reflect that the message has been sent. Dame, contact Admin about this. I am sure you did not do this on purpose.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi Damemary and Patty
It's nice and peaceful here tonight . . .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pleasure to see you Al. Welcome home.



alcameron said:


> Hi Damemary and Patty


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Haven't been around much. Too busy busy busy. I see nothing has changed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> It is not obvious 'that the middle line is in Nussa's voice'.
> It is part of what she quotes me as saying!
> That's fraud!
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


I am sure you will live. Sometimes when one quotes a reply the typing of the original poster's words are usually at the bottom of the box, assuming that is the end of that quote. I have gone back many times to edit where my posts came up in the middle of the quote where I had replied.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Haven't been around much. Too busy busy busy. I see nothing has changed.


Same old, same old, Al! Great to see you!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Same old, same old, Al! Great to see you!


I've been trying to catch up, but I really don't know why I should bother. They're so predictable.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I think I'll settle down with a book. I haven't had much time for reading. My sister and I went to the library when she got here and I think she's read 6 books and I haven't finished one!
Night all


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Can you imagine how empty their lives must be to bring up photos from another website to attempt to mock me or anyone else?
> 
> What is hilarious is their pathetic assumptions. Wonder if she can reach more than an octave on a piano?


The pic was posted on this website and I didn't have to go back to find anything, LTL. No time was wasted on you except for my comment about your general pudginess after your mocking words of the First Lady.
No empty life here! . Never did play the piano, however I kick butt on my accoustical guitar!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think I'll settle down with a book. I haven't had much time for reading. My sister and I went to the library when she got here and I think she's read 6 books and I haven't finished one!
> Night all


That is where I am headed now. Have a good night ladies and sweet dreams!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Don't speak Russian. Thanks for reminder. Sometimes 'truth' is someone's version of proof, aka propaganda. I prefer truth truth. Call me fussy.


Not only does "pravda" mean truth, and is the name of one of the two biggest newspapers in the old Soviet Union, the other newspaper is called "Investya (phonetic spelling) which means"information" Old Soviet Union joke is that "There is no pravda in Investya and no investya in Pravda."

By the way, how in the world did this topic go from 70 pages to 100 in a few hours? I'm not sure I can wade through all the new stuff...

PS. Now I see what happened. All those repeated posts of Damemary's that show this place can run away with itself. I can't even figure out how someone could deliberately repeat a post for 35 pages. Admin couldn't possible believe damemary did that on purpose. Maybe the site needs some maintenance...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Damemary says she contacted admin. And yes....this has happened before...definitely some maintenance needed....


MaidInBedlam said:


> Not only does "pravda" mean truth, and is the name of one of the two biggest newspapers in the old Soviet Union, the other newspaper is called "Investya (phonetic spelling) which means"information" Old Soviet Union joke is that "There is no pravda in Investya and no investya in Pravda."
> 
> By the way, how in the world did this topic go from 70 pages to 100 in a few hours? I'm not sure I can wade through all the new stuff...
> 
> PS. Now I see what happened. All those repeated posts of Damemary's that show this place can run away with itself. I can't even figure out how someone could deliberately repeat a post for 35 pages. Admin couldn't possible believe damemary did that on purpose. Maybe the site needs some maintenance...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> So Bush was mistaken......and President Obama is a lair? You can't have it both ways. What you are doing, is picking and choosing what you want to believe. That's what the rest of us are doing. But you tell us we are wrong. Yet, you have no more proof of your perception than we do of ours. I say that President Obama did his best to make his ACA plan work. But when he was stymied at every turn, ACA couldn't possibly go as he planned. His intentions were good. You could say that about Bush and the WMD's. But as I said before, you can't have it both ways, if you're going to be fair.


I am not sure if the intelligence at the time was wrong or not. But he acted on the information at hand, as did the coalition that was formed. If you said Bush was mistaken then you need to call the Brits liars because that is where the intel cam from. If the intel was wrong, he believed it and acted accordingly. He did not lie. So that is a huge difference.

Obama did not do his best with Obamacare. It is his signature bill. So he is either ignorant about what was in the bill or he lied. What is it? If he was truly a leader he would have known about the website and asked Congress to delay the entire bill until the website could be working correctly. But his arrogance and inability to act like a leader came into play, he chose not to do that. He tried to reword what he said, fired no one, and still will not admit that it is a train wreck. Today is another false deadline. Today is another day that people are not able to sign up, and pay their premiums through a secure website. Today people can buy their old insurance that they liked, but Obama deems it substandard. So if Obamacare is so great, and working so well, and so economical, then why are only the people signing up for free Medicare, Medicaid and receive massive subsidies the only ones happy? Why did Harry Reid exempt his staff if Obamacare was so good? Where is my $2,500.00 dollars of savings that I was promised, or should I say lied to about?

This is the reality of today: based on a law (not coalition intel) that has his name on it and he did not know what was in it. Based on the law he could refer to, he lied about what was in the bill to the American public. How pathetic to have a bill with your name on it, and not even know what is in it. Some Constitutional scholar.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> LTL - You really can't have a civil discussion without and insult in it can you? And so you don't ask me "What insult?" I'll copy and paste what you said.
> quote - (but alas I do not believe you or your other CULT members have the courage to do it.) - unquote.
> I capitalized the word "cult" so you wouldn't miss it.


Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".

Number three sums it up pretty well.

Definition of cult 

Bing Dictionary
cult
[ kult ]

1.religion: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader
2.religious group: a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs, especially beliefs regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false
3.idolization of somebody or something: an extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".
> 
> Number three sums it up pretty well.
> 
> ...


Nobody needs to prove anything to you, you could do some research in order to make the distinction that nobody left of Ghengis Khan views Barack Obama as a religious/messiah figure and that it is more sick propaganda for right wing nuts to drool over.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

(You are so full of bull Scheisse it isn't funny. I don't know why I bother with you......but consider it a Christian act of kindness.
You believe it was everyone else who was responsible except Bush, for us going War. Well, here are a few facts that tell what really happened. Bush was just itching for a war....he had to show president Daddy that he could go to war too, an do it bigger, though not necessarily better....So here's your info. Not that you'll care, as you don't care about the truth.....Just your hate for the Democrats.

(Defector who told the West about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction admits he lied.

By Daily Mail Reporter
UPDATED: 20:44 EST, 15 February 2011

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357295/Iraqi-defector-told-Blair-Bush-Saddams-WMDs-admits-lied.html#ixzz2oIjFADcn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook )

(On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddams inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again. 
http://www.salon.com/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/ )

(Here's the part that Tony Blair played in it: )

(Defiant: Tony Blair, former PM, seen with former U.S. President George W. Bush, said he believes it still would have been right to have invaded Iraq even if it was known that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction.)
Nussa's opinion: (Was he a warmonger too?)

(Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357295/Iraqi-defector-told-Blair-Bush-Saddams-WMDs-admits-lied.html#ixzz2oIqrKx3I
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook )



lovethelake said:


> I am not sure if the intelligence at the time was wrong or not. But he acted on the information at hand, as did the coalition that was formed. If you said Bush was mistaken then you need to call the Brits liars because that is where the intel cam from. If the intel was wrong, he believed it and acted accordingly. He did not lie. So that is a huge difference.
> 
> (So what you are saying is, Bush believed the intels lie? So that MADE him go to war? So he is innocent on the grounds of stupidity?)
> 
> ...


(Again.......a load of Bull Scheisse)


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Cult:....Sounds more like the Republican group on this forum doesn't it???? As they spout religion like it was written for them and no one else......Not that I'd want anything to do with their skewed way of religious thinking.....


jelun2 said:


> Nobody needs to prove anything to you, you could do some research in order to make the distinction that nobody left of Ghengis Khan views Barack Obama as a religious/messiah figure and that it is more sick propaganda for right wing nuts to drool over.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

As you are the one doing the accusing......I believe you are the one who has to prove your accusation is true......And you can't...All you can do is back peddle when you know you don't have a shred of evidence. 
It's what children do......It's the, "I know you are but what am I?" syndrome.



lovethelake said:


> Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".
> 
> Number three sums it up pretty well.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".


Prove to me that the anti-Obama stance is not a personal obsession with you and your cronies. Think about Obama as both a politician and a person--is there one positive thing you can say? Any piece of legislation that finds favor with you? Any kudos to the man for winning (twice) a Presidential election a mere forty years after Jim Crow segregation ended? Do you feel he's a snappy dresser? Is he attractive? Intelligent? Does he appear to be a good parent?

And if there is something positive you can see, do you have the courage to say it here in the thread with your political cohorts hanging onto every word?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Susan. Good perspective.



susanmos2000 said:


> Prove to me that the anti-Obama stance is not a personal obsession with you and your cronies. Think about Obama as both a politician and a person--is there one positive thing you can say? Any piece of legislation that finds favor with you? Any kudos to the man for winning (twice) a Presidential election a mere forty years after Jim Crow segregation ended? Do you feel he's a snappy dresser? Is he attractive? Intelligent? Does he appear to be a good parent?
> 
> And if there is something positive you can see, do you have the courage to say it here in the thread with your political cohorts hanging onto every word?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

What a nice little holiday remembrance that would be.



susanmos2000 said:


> Prove to me that the anti-Obama stance is not a personal obsession with you and your cronies. Think about Obama as both a politician and a person--is there one positive thing you can say? Any piece of legislation that finds favor with you? Any kudos to the man for winning (twice) a Presidential election a mere forty years after Jim Crow segregation ended? Do you feel he's a snappy dresser? Is he attractive? Intelligent? Does he appear to be a good parent?
> 
> And if there is something positive you can see, do you have the courage to say it here in the thread with your political cohorts hanging onto every word?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Damemary says she contacted admin. And yes....this has happened before...definitely some maintenance needed....


That was a really weird glitch. Has anyone had a problem with the "Quote Reply" option"? I find that a lot of times it isn't working when I try to use it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That was a really weird glitch. Has anyone had a problem with the "Quote Reply" option"? I find that a lot of times it isn't working when I try to use it.


Infrequently, and that issue that some others seem to have with getting the comment stuck in the middle of the quote.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Here I go into final prep for Christmas Eve and Christmas celebration. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas or a Happy Bah Humbug, depending on how you feel about the holiday. :!: :!: :lol: :wink:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> What a nice little holiday remembrance that would be.


Yes, it would--but I doubt she'll respond. To speak even one positive thing about Obama would be treason in the other righties' eyes.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am not sure if the intelligence at the time was wrong or not. But he acted on the information at hand, as did the coalition that was formed. If you said Bush was mistaken then you need to call the Brits liars because that is where the intel cam from. If the intel was wrong, he believed it and acted accordingly. He did not lie. So that is a huge difference.


I know that's comforting to think so, and a popular version of the "official story" (aka: propaganda), but it's absolutely, patently, provably untrue. And if you're interested, I could bury you in plenty of proof. Just a few points: Thanks to Dick Cheney, there were plans --actual MAPS -- drawn up for how Iraq's oil fields would be divvied up among their oil industry friends after a series of meeting by Dick Cheney starting in January 2001, or was it before the Bushies even got into the White House - I forget.

Then there was PNAC, an organization of neo-cons which was jonesing to attack and subdue Iraq for several years before 9-11. Their most well-known document, "Redefining America's Defenses" called for total U.S. world domination, including space and cyberspace, but warned that such adventures with the concomitant military buildup would be a hard sell to the American public and, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing eventlike a new Pearl Harbor." And, we all know that by extremely fortuitous coincidence, they got their "new Pearl Harbor."

The other intelligence services around the world pretty much knew there were no WMDs, no niger cake episode (pure fabrication), no Al Qaeda in Iraq, no involvement of Iraq with 9-11, on and on. Again, I could bury you in links and "proof." I worked VERY hard to try to stop that war, as did millions of people around the world. There was one day in February when people on every single continent together protested the war -- something that had never been done before. In fact, pre-war protests had never been done before, let alone on all 7 continents on the same day. Very little of ay of the protests throughout American cities and elsewhere was in the mainstream media who all seemed as bloodthirsty for war as the administration, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Just say the word and I'll dip into my bookmark collection and continue for pages and pages and pages of ACTUAL FACT and TRUTH, not pretty little lies about a Republican administration.



> Obama did not do his best with Obamacare. It is his signature bill. So he is either ignorant about what was in the bill or he lied. What is it?


Ahh, the perils of black-and-white thinking. There ARE other alternatives, actually and, as I've said before, ONE of them is what I've seen reported that happened: His political advisers suggested he not go into the cancellation issue since it was only going to affect a very small percentage -- 0.6% I think it was -- of those insured.



> But his arrogance and inability to act like a leader came into play, he chose not to do that. He tried to reword what he said, fired no one, and still will not admit that it is a train wreck.


What the heck are you talking about ? He apologized all over himself, repeatedly. REPEATEDLY. And may not have used the words "train weck," but certainly admitted it was a mess, and that it shouldn't have happened, and so forth and so on. I guess Fox news didn't report that, eh? (And why would they? Their mission is to do everything in their power to destroy Obama. That precludes fairness, or even actual FACTUAL reporting.) I frankly got sick of seeing him over many days repeatedly groveling like that. Yes, apologies were in order, yes it was unacceptable. State that, forcefully, and then go on and tell everyone else to get n with business because: IT'S ONLY A WEBSITE AND THAT CAN BE FIXED (and largely has been and is continuing to be fixed).

He learned that firing no one tick from George Bush. Well, actually, there WAS one person Bush fired: "Heckuva job Brownie," that FEMA director. Most if not all other wrongdoers in the Bush administration got promoted instead of fired, which leads one to believe that what they did "wrong" was really "right" from the administration's point of view -- OR that they knew too much for the Bush administration to risk pissing them off by firing them.



> This is the reality of today: based on a law (not coalition intel) that has his name on it and he did not know what was in it. Based on the law he could refer to, he lied about what was in the bill to the American public. How pathetic to have a bill with your name on it, and not even know what is in it. Some Constitutional scholar.


Uhhh, you DO know that "Obamacare" is the name Republicans gave it, and not its real title, don't you? It's the Affordable Care Act. Obama famously said that there'd come a time when Republicans would STOP calling it Obamacare because they wouldn't want him to get credit for it. I'm sure he's right UNLESS the Republicans can succeed at continuing to propagandize against it to try to make it fail.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".
> 
> Number three sums it up pretty well.
> 
> ...


You can't prove a negative. So it falls to you to provide proof -- or even examples -- that definition number 3 (or any) applies in any way.

I guess you still didn't see MY post?? Here's the link: http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4508954


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry: The other intelligence services around the world pretty much knew there were no WMDs, no niger cake episode (pure fabrication), no Al Qaeda in Iraq, no involvement of Iraq with 9-11, on and on. Again, I could bury you in links and "proof." I worked VERY hard to try to stop that war, as did millions of people around the world. There was one day in February when people on every single continent together protested the war -- something that had never been done before. In fact, pre-war protests had never been done before, let alone on all 7 continents on the same day. Very little of ay of the protests throughout American cities and elsewhere was in the mainstream media who all seemed as bloodthirsty for war as the administration, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. 

Just say the word and I'll dip into my bookmark collection and continue for pages and pages and pages of ACTUAL FACT and TRUTH, not pretty little lies about a Republican administration."

Wow--you really know your stuff, Knitry. I'm most impressed.

One thing about the Gulf war(s) that I've always wondered: did Bush and the American military brass harbor any fantasy that the Iraqi people might welcome our presence if we toppled their leader? I always had the impression that, besides the oil, we wanted a semi-friendly country in the Middle East in which to park our troops--and before the wars Iraq was reasonably open and cooperative with the West.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

One thing about the Gulf war(s) that I've always wondered: did Bush and the American military brass harbor any fantasy that the Iraqi people might welcome our presence if we toppled their leader? I always had the impression that, besides the oil, we wanted a semi-friendly country in the Middle East in which to park our troops--and before the wars Iraq was reasonably open and cooperative with the West.

I agree, Susan, there may not be any documentaion; it certainly seems if we had been smart enough to leave when President Bush called "Mission Accomplished" it could have been that way. 
It was the occupation that had the US blamed for all that went wrong.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Knitry: Just say the word and I'll dip into my bookmark collection and continue for pages and pages and pages of ACTUAL FACT and TRUTH, not pretty little lies about a Republican administration."
> 
> Wow--you really know your stuff, Knitry. I'm most impressed.


Thanks for the compliment. In all honesty, though, I do know quite a bit -- or at least have access to quite a bit because I spend two or more hours every single day reading up on the news -- quite a bit of minimally or underreported, some of it rather arcane. But I don't just "read" it, I collect and categorize the links for those subjects I'm interested in.



> One thing about the Gulf war(s) that I've always wondered: did Bush and the American military brass harbor any fantasy that the Iraqi people might welcome our presence if we toppled their leader? I always had the impression that, besides the oil, we wanted a semi-friendly country in the Middle East in which to park our troops--and before the wars Iraq was reasonably open and cooperative with the West.


Well, you've forgotten that you already (probably) know -- that the Bush administration lied to us about that: we were supposed to be greeted as liberators, with flowers thrown at the feet of advancing troops as they invaded their country.

And yes, we definitely did want a permanent presence in the ME, and in fact built at least 4 PERMANENT bases in Iraq. Large ones. Now, as I googled that to get an updated picture, it seems that Obama may have changed that and relinquished those bases.

but here's one May 2011 article you may find of interest:*Bush Issues Signing Statement Waiving Ban On Permanent Military Bases Iraq* 
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/29/signing-statement-iraq/

And this article confirms



> But there is little question that the all-encompassing US military occupation of Iraq is over. After more than eight years of war, the Iraqi government finally said no more. Their refusal to grant US troops immunity from prosecution for potential war crimes was the deal-breaker that forced President Obamas hand and made him pull out the last 30,000 troops he and his generals were hoping to keep in Iraq.
> 
> ...all but two of the 500 plus US bases and outposts were either closed down or turned over to the Iraqi military.
> 
> http://www.thenation.com/blog/173396/way-worse-dumb-war-iraq-ten-years-later#


And you gotta see the swimming pool in this 2006 article:



> BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq  The concrete goes on forever, vanishing into the noonday glare, 2 million cubic feet of it, a mile-long slab thats now the home of up to 120 U.S. helicopters, a heli-park as good as any back in the States.
> 
> At another giant base, al-Asad in Iraqs western desert, the 17,000 troops and workers come and go in a kind of bustling American town, with a Burger King, Pizza Hut and a car dealership, stop signs, traffic regulations and young bikers clogging the roads.
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11072377/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/extended-presence-us-iraq-looms-large/#.Urhy8n-0ZwQ


And here's a very good article from March, 2007:



> There are people in Washington who never intend to withdraw military forces from Iraq and they're looking for ten, 20, 50 years in the future. The reason that we went into Iraq was to establish a permanent military base in thegulf region, and I have never heard any of our leaders say that they would commit themselves to the Iraqi people that ten years from now there will be no military bases of the United States in Iraq. --- Former President Jimmy Carter (Feb. 3, 2006)
> 
> It is difficult to believe that with the U.S. establishment having all but conceded defeat in Iraq, and with the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group having signaled that the United States needs the help of its rivals Iran and Syria -- as well as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and other influential Middle Eastern nations -- to contain the Iraqi civil war, the U.S. is still pursuing the war and building permanent military bases in the disintegrating nation. Yet, this is precisely what the Pentagon is doing.
> 
> Their reasoning is simple: the geostrategic stakes are high. Given history and the importance of Middle East oil, Iraq has become what Eqbal Ahmad used to call -- the geopolitical center of the struggle for world power.


And, if you're not familiar with it, you may want to do some research on Peak Oil, the notion that the world is now in a position of fairly drastically dwindling oil resources. -- at a time when demand is growing equally drastically, due primarily to the industrialization of India and China. That would explain the strong push by "whatever means necessary" to get oil. In truth, it's my understanding that tar sands oil used to be too expensive to produce for it to be worthwhile. But if you are facing declining stores, the expense becomes moot, and wars-for-oil more likely if not downright "reasonable" (to some).


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks, Knitry. 


Quote:
There are people in Washington who never intend to withdraw military forces from Iraq and they're looking for ten, 20, 50 years in the future. The reason that we went into Iraq was to establish a permanent military base in thegulf region, and I have never heard any of our leaders say that they would commit themselves to the Iraqi people that ten years from now there will be no military bases of the United States in Iraq. --- Former President Jimmy Carter (Feb. 3, 2006)

It is difficult to believe that with the U.S. establishment having all but conceded defeat in Iraq, and with the Baker-Hamilton Iraq Study Group having signaled that the United States needs the help of its rivals Iran and Syria -- as well as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and other influential Middle Eastern nations -- to contain the Iraqi civil war, the U.S. is still pursuing the war and building permanent military bases in the disintegrating nation. Yet, this is precisely what the Pentagon is doing.

Their reasoning is simple: the geostrategic stakes are high. Given history and the importance of Middle East oil, Iraq has become what Eqbal Ahmad used to call -- the geopolitical center of the struggle for world power.
******************************************
Honestly, people wonder why the freedom fighters/insurgents go after US military personnel and their supporters in gov't and out? 
We had no business acting as imperialists in this situation, none at all.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Y
> 
> Yes, but if you think about it, that's how propaganda works. It pulls you in and sets you up to buy more.


And you liberals certainly have bought out the store with Obama.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You know that's nuts. Why say it?
> 
> I've had two friends who went on Welfare when their husbands left them - both were stay-at-home moms - with no job and few supports. One had gone with her husband to California, where he was in graduate school. The other had quit her job in Manhattan to move to Michigan, because her husband had a really good job. Both of these women used whatever support the government provided, but neither stayed on it permanently. Both are doing fine now; in fact, one is an artist who recently had an installation at the Museum of Modern Art. I don't know what would have happened to them without the steady, albeit tiny, payments from Welfare.
> 
> That hardly sounds as though they were held down.


It's nice to see they didn't take advantage of the system.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And even though, right now, the Repubican's are only of dollar store quality......you all are still clamoring to get in to get your share of usless junk.....


soloweygirl said:


> And you liberals certainly have bought out the store with Obama.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Could you explain how President Obama "keeps his foot on their heads and prevents them from moving at all."?


The economy. What has he done for the economy that has actually helped it regain it's ability to grow? All of his so called green energy jobs have cost the taxpayer millions if not billions for only a minimum amount of actual jobs created. He has cost industries - coal and oil - many jobs in his almost 5 years in office. His policies in regard to the coal industry have had disastrous effects on that industry and indirectly on what supports it. With all of his talk about infrastructure, what jobs have actually been created? His talk of the jobs he's saved, is just that, talk. African American unemployment rates are at an extremely high level. Any change in the employment figures are short lived and generally fall back to preexisting levels the following month. His policies have placed us on a part time employment course, instead of moving to full time jobs of 40 + hours. That certainly doesn't scream recovery. So yes, his policies certainly are keeping people where they are and are not allowing them to get where they want to go.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

IMPORTANT TO READ!!

Obama's Misguided Obsession With Inequality

He uses statistics that ignore taxes and transfer payments. Faster growth is what the poor really need.

By Robert E. Grady 


Dec. 22, 2013 6:07 p.m. ET


In his widely noted speech, President Obama said that "a dangerous and growing inequality and lack of upward mobility" is "the defining challenge of our time." This belief makes Mr. Obama unique: Unlike the other presidents since World War II, he places inequality above economic growth as the organizing principle of U.S. economic policy. The president's Dec. 4 speech, at an event hosted by the Center for American Progress, also stressed that increasing inequality is a "decades-long trend"which carries with it the strong implication that the country needs to reverse the direction it has taken for the last three decades. But like so many of his other pronouncements, the assumptions behind his defining challenge are misleading.

Virtually all of the data cited by the left to decry the supposed explosion of income inequality, as Lee Ohanian and Kip Hagopian point out in their seminal paper, "The Mismeasure of Inequality" (Policy Review, 2011), use a Census Bureau definition of "money income" that excludes taxes, transfer payments like Medicaid, Medicare, nutrition assistance, the Earned Income Tax Credit, and even costly employee benefits such as health insurance. 

Thus the data that is conventionally used to calculate the so-called Gini coefficientthe most commonly used measure of income inequalityignore America's highly progressive income tax system and the panoply of benefits and transfer payments. According to Messrs. Ohanian and Hagopian, once the effect of taxes and transfer payments is taken into account, "inequality actually declined 1.8% during the 16-year period between 1993 and 2009, when the Gini coefficient dropped from .395 to .388." 

In his speech, Mr. Obama cited a recent study from economists at Columbia University that found that already enacted benefits and tax programs have reduced America's effective poverty rate by 40% since 1967to 16% from 26%. But he ignores all this when he claims that inequality is increasing. 

The Columbia study shows that Messrs. Ohanian and Hagopian's research is hardly an outlier. The Congressional Budget Office released a study that came to a similar conclusion in October 2011. The CBO study picked an artificial starting point of 1979, amid a crushing period of stagflation. Yet it still showed that family income, including benefits, on average experienced a 62% gain above inflation from 1979 to 2007. It also showed that all five quintiles of the income distribution spectrum experienced real gains in family income. 

The CBO study contradicts Mr. Obama's claims in the 2008 presidential campaign and early in his first term that the middle class was "falling behind." The real concern is that some people were getting too far ahead.

With respect to upward mobility, longitudinal studies conducted by the U.S. Treasury have found that there was "considerable income mobility" in the decades 1987-1996 and 1996-2005. For example, roughly half of those in the bottom income quintile in 1996 had moved to a higher quintile by 2005. The "median incomes of those initially in the lowest income groups increased more in percentage terms than the median incomes of those in the higher income groups" in that decade, while the real incomes of two-thirds of all taxpayers experienced an increase.

Here is the bottom line: In periods of high economic growth, such as the 1980s and 1990s, the vast majority of Americans gain, and have the opportunity to gain. In periods of slow growth, such as the past four and a half years since the recession officially ended, poor people and the middle class are hurt the most, and opportunity is curbed.

Consider the Census Bureau data, which measure only money income. The data show that median family income adjusted for inflation has not been on a steady or stagnating path since the 1970s. It fell, in real terms, by 5.7% from 1974-1982, when slow growth and high inflation ravaged the average family. Tellingly, in this period, real income fell for the bottom four quintiles, but held steady for the top 20%.

From 1983 to 2007, however, median family income grew substantiallyby 21.6% above inflationand real income grew for all five quintiles. Then, beginning in 2008, real income plunged again, both for the median family and for all quintiles. 

The point is this: If the goal is to deliver higher incomes and a better standard of living for the majority of Americans, then generating economic growthnot income inequality or the redistribution of wealthis the defining challenge of our time.

Regarding growth, Mr. Obama claimed in his speech that we should use some money "to create good jobs rebuilding our roads and our bridges and our airports, and all the infrastructure our businesses need." Yet a recent analysis by BCA Research shows a sharp drop in real spending by the government on nondefense infrastructure since the president took office. When a Democratic Congress passed the president's massive $800 billion stimulus bill, seven-eighths of the total went to transfer payments like Medicaid, food stamps and sending a check to millions of Americans who do not pay income taxes. 

The president claims to be concerned about spurring private investment. But investors at home and abroad can readily see that his steadfast refusal to reform the country's entitlement programs threatens spending on physical infrastructure, education, university research and other items that will contribute to the future productivity of the United States. That same unrestrained entitlement growth, and the debt that comes with it, will ultimately compromise the value of dollar-denominated assets. Public companies have trillions of dollars of cash to invest sitting on their balance sheets, but the Obama economy's growth record is weak, and insufficient to attract capital investment. 

Straining credulity, Mr. Obama also pointed in his income inequality speech to the Affordable Care Act as one of his initiatives to improve the economy, despite clear evidence that the law's employer mandate is discouraging full-time employment. For most of this year, the overwhelming majority of jobs added to the U.S. economy have been part-time, not full-time. Gallup's payroll-to-population ratio, the proportion of the American population working full time, has dropped almost two full percentage points in the last year, to 43.8%. 

Mr. Obama said in his speech that "making sure our economy works for every working American" is what "drives everything I do in this office." Accomplishing this worthy goal requires growth, not redistribution. 

Mr. Grady, a managing director at the private-equity firm Cheyenne Capital Fund, is the chief economic adviser to New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and chairman of the New Jersey State Investment Council.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitry said:


> *You can't prove a negative. *So it falls to you to provide proof -- or even examples "


Knitry: OK, I shall (provide proof AND examples) as you challenged LovetheLake to do.

I don't ever read your posts but was asked by another KP member about this one post you wrote recently. Now I remember _why_ I don't read your posts since you believe in folk lore, myths, fairy tales and LWN bull. I know even if you goggle your false statement you'll prove yourself wrong.

However, I'll respond to this one.

*Ill prove you wrong because anyone can prove a negative. In fact, it is very easy to do.* Here's just _one_ way to do so:

Heres my negative proposal that Knitry says I can NOT prove:

Knitry is not an idiot.

Something cannot be *both* true and false, in other words, something cannot be both true and not true. So.....

*IF* this is a True statement = Knitry is not an idiot (logical argument: she has intelligence)

*then,* that exact proposal cannot also be a False statement (logical argument: she IS an idiot with no intelligence)

THEREBY the *original negative proposal has been PROVEN.*

Again, I just proved *you CAN prove a negative* and Knitrys statement is NOT accurate or the truth. Thereby, I have also proved Knitry IS an idiot (TRUE) and her statement is a lie (FALSE).

*IF* I could prove Knitry is NOT an idiot, it would be true.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Who wrote that for you???


knitpresentgifts said:


> Knitry: OK, I shall (provide proof AND examples) as you challenged LovetheLake to do.
> 
> I don't ever read your posts but was asked by another KP member about this one post you wrote recently. Now I remember _why_ I don't read your posts since you believe in folk lore, myths,fairy tales and all LWN bull. I know even if you goggle your false statement you'll prove yourself wrong.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Your source is a bit to slanted to be non-biased..... 
Grady began his career as legislative assistant and then chief of staff for the late New Jersey Congresswoman Millicent Fenwick.[20] He went on to serve as communications director for former New Jersey Governor Thomas Kean.[11] Grady was a speechwriter and policy adviser for George H.W. Bush during the 1988 Presidential campaign,[11] and served in the White House for Bush as Associate Director of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for Natural Resources, Energy and Science (19891991);[20] Executive Associate Director of OMB;[1] and as Deputy Assistant to the President (19911993).[3] He was widely known for advising Bush in the crafting of the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990, and helping to shepherd that legislation through Congress.[20]

Since then, Grady has served as a part-time adviser to a number of political figures. In 2001, President George W. Bush appointed Grady to be a member of the Advisory Committee on Trade and Policy Negotiations (ACTPN)[21] and he was appointed by the Administrator of NASA during the George W. Bush administration to be a member of the NASA Advisory Councils Task Force on the Cost and Management of the International Space Station.[6]

Noted early on by Newsweek as one of three thirty-somethings to watch (along with Condoleezza Rice and Robert Zoellick) and as OMB Director Richard Darmans polished No. 2 in George H.W. Bushs White House[citation needed], Grady has emerged in recent years as an adviser to various leading Republican candidates and public officials. He served as co-chairman of George W. Bushs campaign in California in both 2000 and 2004, and as an architect of Arnold Schwarzeneggers environmental and economic policies during the 2003 California gubernatorial recall election and member of Schwarzeneggers transition team. Most recently, Grady has served as co-chairman and member of the Transition Task Force on Budget and Taxes for Governor Chris Christie in New Jersey,[2] who has been hailed in conservative editorial pages such as The Weekly Standard and the Wall Street Journal for his budget cuts.[22] Consequently, Grady currently wields lots of economic clout in leading the Governors Council on Economic Advisors and state pension fund.[23] Press reports have also cited Grady as the author of Governor Christies Inaugural Address and his budget addresses to Joint Sessions of the New Jersey Legislature.[24] He has also been increasingly active in Wyoming, as a frequent speaker and as Chairman of one of Wyoming's fastest growing companies, Eleutian Technology.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Grady



Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!!
> 
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Tick tock, once again the Obama clock has been stopped. A shocker, another deadline for Obamacare has passed but thank goodness Obama is giving people another chance to sign up. But then again, if they sign up, will their payment go through and will the insurance companies get their applications in English and not in gibberish. But I doubt we will ever know, because this administration has been so transparent.

So to sum it up......Deadlines have come and gone over and over again. The website is a disaster and is in constant need for 'scheduled maintenance'. The backend of the website is unsecure and payments are not going through. Obama lied about his symbolic signup, he had his staffers do it. (Isn't it nice that he doesn't have to have his own healthcare program and save all that money?) He has never admitted that he lied over and over again to the American people about being able to keep their plan, doctors and saving $2500.00 a year.

In addition, Obama has so little regard for Christmas Eve that he believe millions of people will be waiting in line to sign up rather than spend time at church or with their families. But what does he care; he doesn't have to have Obamacare and he is on a two week vacation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prove to me that I am not correct that the Obama followers are not cult members. In fact they remind me of the show "The Following".
> 
> Number three sums it up pretty well.
> 
> ...


Please, show me where we, the people you refer to as cultists, demonstrate any religious or spiritual attachments etc. to, or idolization of, a man whom several of us refused to vote for, to whom we have addressed critical letters and petitions, whom we complain about among ourselves, but whom we regard as simply a human being, with both faults and admirable traits.

It's you (plural) who've turned him into someone larger than life, some demon who has never done a good thing in his five years in office. Then you have convinced yourselves that just because we try to keep things in perspective, we must be worshippers of his. Maybe if you can understand that our differences about the ACA are just differences of opinion - what we expect from government vs. what you expect - rather than some evil plan to take away everything you've earned and hand it over to the Prince of Darkness, you wouldn't have to invent names to call us.

And frankly, from where I sit, you as a practicing Catholic fit one definition of cult member perfectly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Nobody needs to prove anything to you, you could do some research in order to make the distinction that nobody left of Ghengis Khan views Barack Obama as a religious/messiah figure and that it is more sick propaganda for right wing nuts to drool over.


Well, you managed to say in 3 lines what it took me 3 pages to get across.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Please, show me where we, the people you refer to as cultists, demonstrate any religious or spiritual attachments etc. to, or idolization of, a man whom several of us refused to vote for, to whom we have addressed critical letters and petitions, whom we complain about among ourselves, but whom we regard as simply a human being, with both faults and admirable traits.
> 
> It's you (plural) who've turned him into someone larger than life, some demon who has never done a good thing in his five years in office. Then you have convinced yourselves that just because we try to keep things in perspective, we must be worshippers of his. Maybe if you can understand that our differences about the ACA are just differences of opinion - what we expect from government vs. what you expect - rather than some evil plan to take away everything you've earned and hand it over to the Prince of Darkness, you wouldn't have to invent names to call us.
> 
> And frankly, from where I sit, you as a practicing Catholic fit one definition of cult member perfectly.


hummmmmm

So by your logic Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list all belong to cults?

I think you are drinking the Obama Kool Aid again


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Prove to me that the anti-Obama stance is not a personal obsession with you and your cronies. Think about Obama as both a politician and a person--is there one positive thing you can say? Any piece of legislation that finds favor with you? Any kudos to the man for winning (twice) a Presidential election a mere forty years after Jim Crow segregation ended? Do you feel he's a snappy dresser? Is he attractive? Intelligent? Does he appear to be a good parent?
> 
> And if there is something positive you can see, do you have the courage to say it here in the thread with your political cohorts hanging onto every word?


Thank you, Susan.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Please, oh, please!!! When is it important for anyone to read an opinion piece from the WSJ? Have they suddenly become the upholders of the balanced point of view?


Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!!
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow--you really know your stuff, Knitry. I'm most impressed.
> 
> One thing about the Gulf war(s) that I've always wondered: did Bush and the American military brass harbor any fantasy that the Iraqi people might welcome our presence if we toppled their leader? I always had the impression that, besides the oil, we wanted a semi-friendly country in the Middle East in which to park our troops--and before the wars Iraq was reasonably open and cooperative with the West.


Don't you remember someone (Cheney? Rumsfeld? Powell? I don't recall) saying they would welcome us with flowers?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Here I go into final prep for Christmas Eve and Christmas celebration. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas or a Happy Bah Humbug, depending on how you feel about the holiday. :!: :!: :lol: :wink:


Have a very happy All-of-the-Above.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Seriously? _SERIOUSLY??_

I have to hand it to you: I don't think I've ever seen such a childish response from an adult. This takes the cake. Congratulations.

Do you REALLY tell yourself I "believe in folk lore, myths, fairy tales"? Do you? It would be pretty telling if you do.

To be honest, you just sound mad that you're being bested, like: "Oh yeah? Well, so's your old man."



knitpresentgifts said:


> Knitry: OK, I shall (provide proof AND examples) as you challenged LovetheLake to do.
> 
> I don't ever read your posts but was asked by another KP member about this one post you wrote recently. Now I remember _why_ I don't read your posts since you believe in folk lore, myths, fairy tales and LWN bull. I know even if you goggle your false statement you'll prove yourself wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's nice to see they didn't take advantage of the system.


Nobody does if they have a choice.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Who wrote that for you???


An idiot.

No, wait, she goggled it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've had that response too. When requesting 'Quote Reply' I receive 'Reply' only. Intermittent.



MaidInBedlam said:


> That was a really weird glitch. Has anyone had a problem with the "Quote Reply" option"? I find that a lot of times it isn't working when I try to use it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> hummmmmm
> 
> So by your logic Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list all belong to cults?
> 
> I think you are drinking the Obama Kool Aid again


I don't know about the others, but Jews do not idolize or pray to anyone who was ever human (though my mom really liked Eddie Fisher).

Seriously, I was just taking your logic to its obvious conclusion. If you chose to read only my last line but none of the preceding ones - that's your problem.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The economy. What has he done for the economy that has actually helped it regain it's ability to grow?


Well, that's overstated (and a good bit of the rest of your post was wrong or overstated as well), but you know, I think you bring up a good point.

Another thing I'm mad at Obama about is not listening to Paul Krugman (and others) when the economic stimulus was put together. Krugman insisted -- and in fact was quite adamant -- about the fact that the stimulus was too small, that it would do some good but not enough and that the Republicans could then complain that it didn't work. (See what I mean about Krugman always being right?) Too, Obama is tooooo willing to compromise with Congressional Republicans, so he lets himself in for such mistreatment.

But really, you'd have to be able to control for the overarching obstructionism on the part of Republicans in order to argue convincingly that ALL or even MOST of the blame should be on Obama. The Republicans haven't even come up with a jobs bill at all. So why aren't you complaining about them??


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> An idiot.
> 
> No, wait, she goggled it.


I noticed that, but was so apoplectic over the entirety of it --

Thanks for providing the opportunity for a good laugh.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Seriously? _SERIOUSLY??_
> 
> I have to hand it to you: I don't think I've ever seen such a childish response from an adult. This takes the cake. Congratulations.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

But that is the way she does things. Instead of going for your weak points and trying to show you up, she goes for your strong points and falls flat on her head (in her own pointy-headed way).


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> But that is the way she does things. Instead of going for your weak points and trying to show you up, she goes for your strong points and falls flat on her head (in her own pointy-headed way).


You have me in stitches this afternoon. Do you do standup??


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You have me in stitches this afternoon. Do you do standup??


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Seriously? _SERIOUSLY??_
> 
> I have to hand it to you: Congratulations.


He, he, he, ho, ho, ho. You just proved my point again, ANYONE, can Prove a Negative and YOU *an idiot and wrong*. :-D :-D :-D

*You are UNABLE to prove me wrong (because I'm correct) or ADMIT you're wrong, * so you'll try to make fun of me or call me stupid. I'm well aware of your inability to make or prove an argument. SERIOUSLY!

BTW: Learn how to logically make a point or prove an argument, and since you do not take constructive criticism well, or, shall I state correctly, at all, learn how to do that as well.

Don't worry, I won't assist you ever again pointing out your bias, stupidity and ignorance since I do not read whatever the heck you write. No one expects you to recognize yourself as an idiot, so I was happy to do it on their behalf only this one time. Now go sulk and Google how to properly form an argument and prove a negative as I have done FOR YOU and leave everyone alone.

P.S. I don't expect anything intelligent from you. I'm certain since you and your LWNJs will not find false statements or logic in my proof, you'll call me a Racist instead.

So, Merry Folk Loring !!!    :XD: :XD: :XD:

My argument was accurate and true and worthy of repeating: so here it is again.

--------------


Knitry said:


> *You can't prove a negative.* So it falls to you to provide proof -- or even examples "





knitpresentgifts said:


> Knitry: OK, I shall (provide proof AND examples) as you challenged LovetheLake to do.
> 
> I don't ever read your posts but was asked by another KP member about this one post you wrote recently. Now I remember why I don't read your posts since you believe in folk lore, myths, fairy tales and LWN bull. I know even if you goggle your false statement you'll prove yourself wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Seriously? SERIOUSLY??
> 
> I have to hand it to you: Congratulations.


Someone's gotten into the schnapps and is celebrating already.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Errata to above post: will not find false statements or false logic ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

> He, he, he, ho, ho, ho. You just proved my point again, ANYONE, can Prove a Negative and YOU an idiot and wrong.
> 
> You are UNABLE to prove me wrong (because I'm correct) or ADMIT you're wrong, so you'll try to make fun of me or call me stupid. I'm well aware of your inability to make or prove an argument. SERIOUSLY!
> 
> ...


I'm too amused and astonished to sulk -- gobsmacked, really, KPG, but if that image suits you, by all means indulge it. Be my guest.

The only thing I'll say is: I can certainly see why you avoid reading my posts. Smart on your part. Very smart indeed.

And to think how much that will rob me of the benefit of your exquisite good sense and impeccable logic. Tsk, tsk. More's the pity.

And a Merry whatever to you, too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The economy. What has he done for the economy that has actually helped it regain it's ability to grow? All of his so called green energy jobs have cost the taxpayer millions if not billions for only a minimum amount of actual jobs created. He has cost industries - coal and oil - many jobs in his almost 5 years in office. His policies in regard to the coal industry have had disastrous effects on that industry and indirectly on what supports it. With all of his talk about infrastructure, what jobs have actually been created? His talk of the jobs he's saved, is just that, talk. African American unemployment rates are at an extremely high level. Any change in the employment figures are short lived and generally fall back to preexisting levels the following month. His policies have placed us on a part time employment course, instead of moving to full time jobs of 40 + hours. That certainly doesn't scream recovery. So yes, his policies certainly are keeping people where they are and are not allowing them to get where they want to go.


It must be really frustrating to be so wrong so often.

1. Green jobs and Growth 
How about if you take a peek at the jobs that are going begging?
http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/greendreamjobs.main/?CFID=14819762&CFTOKEN=34273620

Coal is a filthy source of energy, the industry needs to die. 
You really think that jobs have been lost in an industry that has the growth rate that the oil companies have? How many billion did they earn last year? 
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/07/24/574161/what-five-oil-companies-did-with-profits/#

Here is a link about the disparity in employment figures for decades. Please note the pattern. This is long before President Obama had responsibility for encouraging anything.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/01/black_and_white.html

Part time economy? Nope. 
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-obamacare-part-time-jobs-myth-2013-10


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you managed to say in 3 lines what it took me 3 pages to get across.


I could have said it in two words, Admin won't let me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> hummmmmm
> 
> So by your logic Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list all belong to cults?
> 
> I think you are drinking the Obama Kool Aid again


Of course "Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list" all belong to cults. The catch is that they belong to "cults" many of us consider acceptable. If you attend church or temple or mosque or whatever from the time before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes, and your parents take you to worship as soon as they are willing to take you out after you're born, you are guaranteed indoctrinated. You have taken in so much information about what to believe that you can't easily question your beliefs if you ever get to a point were you want to.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I could have said it in two words, Admin won't let me.


HAHAHAHAAAHAAA


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I personally don't believe she meant that at all.......My take on her remarks, is that only those of the Catholic persuation have turned this into some kind of cultist site...as well you know....Right now you are just posting nonsense so as to draw attention away from your own guilt. 
And could you explain your use of the term "Obama Kool-aid?" Because if you are referring to what I think you are...that would make you the lowest form of life on this planet. 
Because the only thing I can relate this to, is the poisoning of all those poor innocent adults and children under the control of Jim Jones in Jonestown Guyana. Is that what you mean????


lovethelake said:


> hummmmmm
> 
> So by your logic Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list all belong to cults?
> 
> I think you are drinking the Obama Kool Aid again


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I've had that response too. When requesting 'Quote Reply' I receive 'Reply' only. Intermittent.


I'm beginning to think Admin doesn't give a bleep about how KP operates altogether. It seems like some ordinary household keeping chores aren't being done. I'm getting kind of tired of that approach.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks like someone bought herself a dictionary of big words..... 


knitpresentgifts said:


> Errata to above post: will not find false statements or false logic ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Who wrote that for you???


I think that was an example provided in her Intro to Logic class... we will have to guess the subject of the exercise at that time.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> But that is the way she does things. Instead of going for your weak points and trying to show you up, she goes for your strong points and falls flat on her head (in her own pointy-headed way).


HAHAHAA, when you talk about flat head it recalls the Clan in Clan of the Cave Bear. Those people were identified that way and became extinct.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I personally don't believe she meant that at all.......My take on her remarks, is that only those of the Catholic persuation have turned this into some kind of cultist site...as well you know....Right now you are just posting nonsense so as to draw attention away from your own guilt.
> And could you explain your use of the term "Obama Kool-aid?" Because if you are referring to what I think you are...that would make you the lowest form of life on this planet.
> Because the only thing I can relate this to, is the poisoning of all those poor innocent adults and children under the control of Jim Jones in Jonestown Guyana. Is that what you mean????


Actually, all I meant is that any religious movement you name would fit her definition of "cult," even her own, but our behavior _vis a vis_ Obama doesn't. True to her usual pattern, she ignored a long message - which actually had content - and picked up a one-liner.

As for the Kool-Aid remark, she meant exactly what you thought she meant, but we can't all fight her on everything she says, esp. when she says nothing that has a real point.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> HAHAHAA, when you talk about flat head it recalls the Clan in Clan of the Cave Bear. Those people were identified that way and became extinct.


I'm still trying to decide whether I want to read that series. There is also a royal family named Flathead in the game Zork III.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that was an example provided in her Intro to Logic class... we will have to guess the subject of the exercise at that time.


I don't think any teacher of logic would have accepted it. It reads like something a college student tried to explain to her but was unable to.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I'm too amused and astonished to sulk -- gobsmacked, really, KPG, but if that image suits you, by all means indulge it. Be my guest.
> 
> The only thing I'll say is: I can certainly see why you avoid reading my posts. Smart on your part. Very smart indeed.
> 
> ...


********************************
You have to admit it has a great appeal to the ignorant.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think any teacher of logic would have accepted it. It reads like something a college student tried to explain to her but was unable to.


Sorry, it was only meant as a joke. Some instructors of logic do have lots of fun with logical fallacies, though.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that was an example provided in her Intro to Logic class... we will have to guess the subject of the exercise at that time.


The funniest part of the "proof" is that it proves nothing. It starts with a statement - "Knitry is not an idiot" - follows it with words in different colors, and ends with the same or opposite (who can tell?) statement, but nothing is actually proved. I guess that would be too much to expect.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry, it was only meant as a joke. Some instructors of logic do have lots of fun with logical fallacies, though.


I knew it was a joke. I guess I'm going to have to resort to JK or maybe  so you know I'm kidding, too. My experience with logicians and mathematicians showed that they are (believe it or not) the funniest people around.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The funniest part of the "proof" is that it proves nothing. It starts with a statement - "Knitry is not an idiot" - follows it with words in different colors, and ends with the same or opposite (who can tell?) statement, but nothing is actually proved. I guess that would be too much to expect.


Well, yeah. Cuz, HAHAHAHAA, you can't prove a negative.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well, yeah. Cuz, HAHAHAHAA, you can't prove a negative.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I knew it was a joke. I guess I'm going to have to resort to JK or maybe  so you know I'm kidding, too. My experience with logicians and mathematicians showed that they are (believe it or not) the funniest people around.


Oh, it is probably my humorless viewpoint. 
I just found out that one of my cousins died a couple of days ago, presumably AIDS related, they say. They being his sister.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm still trying to decide whether I want to read that series. There is also a royal family named Flathead in the game Zork III.


The series is excellent, I think I have been reading it for about 20 years.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The funniest part of the "proof" is that it proves nothing. It starts with a statement - "Knitry is not an idiot" - follows it with words in different colors, and ends with the same or opposite (who can tell?) statement, but nothing is actually proved. I guess that would be too much to expect.


Shhh, she thinks she did something really good.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh, it is probably my humorless viewpoint.
> I just found out that one of my cousins died a couple of days ago, presumably AIDS related, they say. They being his sister.


Oh, wow, I'm so sorry to hear that, jelun. My condolences.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh, it is probably my humorless viewpoint.
> I just found out that one of my cousins died a couple of days ago, presumably AIDS related, they say. They being his sister.


Your _whatless_ viewpoint? I almost sent you a message yesterday saying you're my favorite correspondent because you laugh at all of my remarks.

Terrible about your cousin. How old was he? Did you know he was that sick?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh, wow, I'm so sorry to hear that, jelun. My condolences.


Thanks, Knitry, I hadn't seen him since high school, I ran into his wife about 2 decades ago in the city I was living in at the time. He apparently cut himself off from everyone in the past couple of years. Silly, really. As if anyone with a brain gives a care about who is LGBT these days, oh well unless you are someone who helps people kill ducks.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The series is excellent, I think I have been reading it for about 20 years.


I don't like to think about such a long commitment. I just spent a semester reading Proust, _Remembrance of Things Past_ - 6 volumes, about 700 pages each. I think right now I'm going to veg out on TV.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Shhh, she thinks she did something really good.


Okay. Mum's the word.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Your _whatless_ viewpoint? I almost sent you a message yesterday saying you're my favorite correspondent because you laugh at all of my remarks.
> 
> Terrible about your cousin. How old was he? Did you know he was that sick?


He was 64, just a year older than I. I had no idea that he was gay, that he was sick, that he had a partner... such a close family! 
The only reason I know that he died is because his sister and I are "friends" on Facebook. 
I hope he has a happier experience next time around.

Oh, and thanks about the laughs. I do LOVE to laugh. 
And now, I am going to institute my solution to bad news, a bit of a nap.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Of course "Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Methodists, Jews, Anglicans and too many more to list" all belong to cults. The catch is that they belong to "cults" many of us consider acceptable. If you attend church or temple or mosque or whatever from the time before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes, and your parents take you to worship as soon as they are willing to take you out after you're born, you are guaranteed indoctrinated. You have taken in so much information about what to believe that you can't easily question your beliefs if you ever get to a point were you want to.


Unless I am mistaken Seattle, you are studying to become Catholic. I doubt the Church would find your belief that The Catholic Church is a cult acceptable


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Prove to me that the anti-Obama stance is not a personal obsession with you and your cronies. Think about Obama as both a politician and a person--is there one positive thing you can say? Any piece of legislation that finds favor with you? Any kudos to the man for winning (twice) a Presidential election a mere forty years after Jim Crow segregation ended? Do you feel he's a snappy dresser? Is he attractive? Intelligent? Does he appear to be a good parent?
> 
> And if there is something positive you can see, do you have the courage to say it here in the thread with your political cohorts hanging onto every word?


Kudos for this post. "Think about Obama as a person...". That's a powerful comment. Are any of us fit to judge because I truly think from the comments I have read, none are. I thing that those that criticize everything the President does must be such pathetic and angry individuals. Thank goodness they are not my mother or grandmother. Yuck!!!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Unless I am mistaken Seattle, you are studying to become Catholic. I doubt the Church would find your belief that The Catholic Church is a cult acceptable


Not sure why you would you care - it is not really your business, is it?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Happiest of holidays to all! Enjoy your celebrations my friends!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Errata to above post: will not find false statements or false logic ...


How very sad to be you. I actually pity you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know about the others, but Jews do not idolize or pray to anyone who was ever human (though my mom really liked Eddie Fisher).
> 
> Seriously, I was just taking your logic to its obvious conclusion. If you chose to read only my last line but none of the preceding ones - that's your problem.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> But that is the way she does things. Instead of going for your weak points and trying to show you up, she goes for your strong points and falls flat on her head (in her own pointy-headed way).


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And another elf heard from. Merry Christmas to all.

(It was Cherf. Quote Reply not working.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I personally don't believe she meant that at all.......My take on her remarks, is that only those of the Catholic persuation have turned this into some kind of cultist site...as well you know....Right now you are just posting nonsense so as to draw attention away from your own guilt.
> And could you explain your use of the term "Obama Kool-aid?" Because if you are referring to what I think you are...that would make you the lowest form of life on this planet.
> Because the only thing I can relate this to, is the poisoning of all those poor innocent adults and children under the control of Jim Jones in Jonestown Guyana. Is that what you mean????


Of course that's what she means. I agree with 'the lowest form of life on this planet.'


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Come on extinction.



jelun2 said:


> HAHAHAA, when you talk about flat head it recalls the Clan in Clan of the Cave Bear. Those people were identified that way and became extinct.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do yourself a favor Purl and start that series. I think you will enjoy it.



Poor Purl said:


> I'm still trying to decide whether I want to read that series. There is also a royal family named Flathead in the game Zork III.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you're blathering nonsense, it just goes around in circles. When I see it starting, I automatically skip the rest.



Poor Purl said:


> The funniest part of the "proof" is that it proves nothing. It starts with a statement - "Knitry is not an idiot" - follows it with words in different colors, and ends with the same or opposite (who can tell?) statement, but nothing is actually proved. I guess that would be too much to expect.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why The Big Bang Theory is so funny. Bazinga.



Poor Purl said:


> I knew it was a joke. I guess I'm going to have to resort to JK or maybe  so you know I'm kidding, too. My experience with logicians and mathematicians showed that they are (believe it or not) the funniest people around.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've found I'm ignoring my cousins, probably because they are like the sister. I'm sorry for your loss.

Maybe we can adopt each other as cousins?



jelun2 said:


> Oh, it is probably my humorless viewpoint.
> I just found out that one of my cousins died a couple of days ago, presumably AIDS related, they say. They being his sister.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've read it all several times. It's in my library for when I run out of something new to read.



jelun2 said:


> The series is excellent, I think I have been reading it for about 20 years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right. She just goes off on her private orbit assured that she has set the world straight. (And we're rolling on the floor laughing.)



Knitry said:


> Shhh, she thinks she did something really good.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Come on extinction.


Rah Rah Rah


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is a whole lot more fun than Proust or most TV. At the end of each volume, I'm sorry it's ended.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't like to think about such a long commitment. I just spent a semester reading Proust, _Remembrance of Things Past_ - 6 volumes, about 700 pages each. I think right now I'm going to veg out on TV.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Thinking of Dickens tonight ... ran across this from a NYT article and thought it worth posting:



> *Good Poor, Bad Poor*
> On Sundays, this time of year, my parents would pack a gaggle of us kids into the station wagon for a tour of two Christmas worlds. First, wed go to the wealthy neighborhoods on a hill  grand Tudor houses glowing with the seasonal incandescence of good fortune. Faces pressed against the car windows, we wondered why their Santa was a better toy-maker than ours.
> Amanda Koster for The New York Times
> 
> ...


Merry Christmas, to those who celebrate it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Who set you up to be judge and jury of people's spirituality? Chill and keep your opinions to yourself.



lovethelake said:


> Unless I am mistaken Seattle, you are studying to become Catholic. I doubt the Church would find your belief that The Catholic Church is a cult acceptable


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome back, GW. I've missed your voice.



GWPlver said:


> Kudos for this post. "Think about Obama as a person...". That's a powerful comment. Are any of us fit to judge because I truly think from the comments I have read, none are. I thing that those that criticize everything the President does must be such pathetic and angry individuals. Thank goodness they are not my mother or grandmother. Yuck!!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> If you're blathering nonsense, it just goes around in circles. When I see it starting, I automatically skip the rest.


I'm incapable of ignoring it. At least it gave me something to laugh at on an otherwise crappy day.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do yourself a favor Purl and start that series. I think you will enjoy it.


Okay, I'll try the first one, when I can get to the library.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> That's why The Big Bang Theory is so funny. Bazinga.


I actually tried to watch it. Couldn't stay with it. I guess I don't like sitcoms.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> This is a whole lot more fun than Proust or most TV. At the end of each volume, I'm sorry it's ended.


Aw, c'mon. Nothing's more fun than Proust. Why, every few hundred pages, a day ends and a new day begins. And he dips a cookie in tea once in a while. Big laughs.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you so much for this quote (which doesn't look as though it will reprint. ) Happy Holidays to all. Try repeating to yourself: There, but for the Grace of God, go I.



Knitry said:


> Thinking of Dickens tonight ... ran across this from a NYT article and thought it worth posting:
> 
> Merry Christmas, to those who celebrate it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tell Jelun & I what you think.



Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'll try the first one, when I can get to the library.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're scaring me. AND you read Proust. I still like you lots.



Poor Purl said:


> I actually tried to watch it. Couldn't stay with it. I guess I don't like sitcoms.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Aw, c'mon. Nothing's more fun than Proust. Why, every few hundred pages, a day ends and a new day begins. And he dips a cookie in tea once in a while. Big laughs.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: That's why I like you so much.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Thinking of Dickens tonight ... ran across this from a NYT article and thought it worth posting:


 It's a good piece. Can those people not hear what they're saying? If they were honest and would just say "I don't want to give my money to them; they're not my responsibility; I need everything I have for my own family," I may not vote for them but I'd respect their honesty. Instead, they have a need to believe that they would be very generous if only the other person deserved it. Of course, the way these people know someone deserves it is by the fact that he already has it. A logic circle worthy of you-know-who.



> Merry Christmas, to those who celebrate it.


And we who don't have to sit and sulk? Phooey.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Unless I am mistaken Seattle, you are studying to become Catholic. I doubt the Church would find your belief that The Catholic Church is a cult acceptable


Any religion can be described as a cult. Especially ones that
protect priests who abuse little boys and girls like the Catholic Church.

cult

/kəlt/

noun

noun: cult; plural noun: cults

1.

a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

"the cult of St. Olaf"



a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

"a network of Satan-worshiping cults"

synonyms:

sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction More

"a religious cult"



a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

"a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"

synonyms:

obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of More

"the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"



a person or thing that is popular or fashionable, esp


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Tick tock, once again the Obama clock has been stopped. A shocker, another deadline for Obamacare has passed but thank goodness Obama is giving people another chance to sign up. But then again, if they sign up, will their payment go through and will the insurance companies get their applications in English and not in gibberish. But I doubt we will ever know, because this administration has been so transparent.
> 
> So to sum it up......Deadlines have come and gone over and over again. The website is a disaster and is in constant need for 'scheduled maintenance'. The backend of the website is unsecure and payments are not going through. Obama lied about his symbolic signup, he had his staffers do it. (Isn't it nice that he doesn't have to have his own healthcare program and save all that money?) He has never admitted that he lied over and over again to the American people about being able to keep their plan, doctors and saving $2500.00 a year.
> 
> In addition, Obama has so little regard for Christmas Eve that he believe millions of people will be waiting in line to sign up rather than spend time at church or with their families. But what does he care; he doesn't have to have Obamacare and he is on a two week vacation.


Blah, blah, blah.
If you want him in the Oval office 24-7 then I think his salary should be raised. That really ticks you off that he takes vacations just like all of the preceding presidents.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am not sure if the intelligence at the time was wrong or not. But he acted on the information at hand, as did the coalition that was formed. If you said Bush was mistaken then you need to call the Brits liars because that is where the intel cam from. If the intel was wrong, he believed it and acted accordingly. He did not lie. So that is a huge difference.
> 
> Obama did not do his best with Obamacare. It is his signature bill. So he is either ignorant about what was in the bill or he lied. What is it? If he was truly a leader he would have known about the website and asked Congress to delay the entire bill until the website could be working correctly. But his arrogance and inability to act like a leader came into play, he chose not to do that. He tried to reword what he said, fired no one, and still will not admit that it is a train wreck. Today is another false deadline. Today is another day that people are not able to sign up, and pay their premiums through a secure website. Today people can buy their old insurance that they liked, but Obama deems it substandard. So if Obamacare is so great, and working so well, and so economical, then why are only the people signing up for free Medicare, Medicaid and receive massive subsidies the only ones happy? Why did Harry Reid exempt his staff if Obamacare was so good? Where is my $2,500.00 dollars of savings that I was promised, or should I say lied to about?
> 
> This is the reality of today: based on a law (not coalition intel) that has his name on it and he did not know what was in it. Based on the law he could refer to, he lied about what was in the bill to the American public. How pathetic to have a bill with your name on it, and not even know what is in it. Some Constitutional scholar.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I really respect President Obama and Mrs. Obama. I hope 2014 is a good new year for us ALL.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I really respect President Obama and Mrs. Obama. I hope 2014 is a good new year for us ALL.


Hear! Hear! I am with you there, dame!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hear! Hear! I am with you there, dame!


Same--best wishes to all. Happy holidays, ladies!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've found I'm ignoring my cousins, probably because they are like the sister. I'm sorry for your loss.
> 
> Maybe we can adopt each other as cousins?


Not if it means we have to ignore each other. :wink:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Thinking of Dickens tonight ... ran across this from a NYT article and thought it worth posting:
> 
> Merry Christmas, to those who celebrate it.


Thanks for that, Knitry. 
I couldn't help but think of the small experiment done by a few in Congress this past autumn through which people limited their food budgets to the amount allowed by SNAP. 
It seems to me that those who voted for the cutbacks, those like the snakelike Stephen Southerland and the repugnant Rand Paul should have to live on that food budget for six months. Then perhaps, have that amount cut off.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Blah, blah, blah.
> If you want him in the Oval office 24-7 then I think his salary should be raised. That really ticks you off that he takes vacations just like all of the preceding presidents.


I think his salary should be raised anyway. It should reflect the level of responsibility the office carries.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope a new happy family, Cuz.



jelun2 said:


> Not if it means we have to ignore each other. :wink:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for that, Knitry.
> I couldn't help but think of the small experiment done by a few in Congress this past autumn through which people limited their food budgets to the amount allowed by SNAP.
> It seems to me that those who voted for the cutbacks, those like the snakelike Stephen Southerland and the repugnant Rand Paul should have to live on that food budget for six months. Then perhaps, have that amount cut off.


And with no prospect of new 'entitlements.' Oh, don't forget to make sure their jobs are gone......with NO Unemployment Insurance.......at Christmas. Happy Holidays.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I think his salary should be raised anyway. It should reflect the level of responsibility the office carries.


 Hear. Hear.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Unless I am mistaken Seattle, you are studying to become Catholic. I doubt the Church would find your belief that The Catholic Church is a cult acceptable


Wow! You really don't read. Remember this from the Jesuits? "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for that, Knitry.
> I couldn't help but think of the small experiment done by a few in Congress this past autumn through which people limited their food budgets to the amount allowed by SNAP.
> It seems to me that those who voted for the cutbacks, those like the snakelike Stephen Southerland and the repugnant Rand Paul should have to live on that food budget for six months. Then perhaps, have that amount cut off.


Cut off of what?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! You really don't read. Remember this from the Jesuits? "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man."


No, Empress, they don't read. If they were not such haters of the idea of liberalism and the half black man who is in the White House they would be those same people who pop in to each and every thread that someone has to think to post on and complain that the this didn't belong on a knitting site. 
We addressed critical thinking a few days ago. They missed that segment of development. 
And a merry, happy, contented, week to you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Cut off of what?


Well, we could cut off a few things, I was thinking food budget...
what did I hear today? 5 million people off the system?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

And we rarely hear about, or maybe it's only me, the Federal Commodity Supplemental Food Program which provides supplemental foods to the elderly and qualifying women with small children. http://www.fns.usda.gov/csfp/commodity-supplemental-food-program-csfp


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> No, Empress, they don't read. If they were not such haters of the idea of liberalism and the half black man who is in the White House they would be those same people who pop in to each and every thread that someone has to think to post on and complain that the this didn't belong on a knitting site.
> We addressed critical thinking a few days ago. They missed that segment of development.
> And a merry, happy, contented, week to you.


Yes, they pop in like the nosy neighbor who pops in to see what you have and maybe even give you the white glove treatment and then pops out to tell the whole neighborhood all about it. This used to be easy when everyone was on a party line...

Well, I'm almost done with doing all the little, picky things I do for Christmas and will toddle off to bed tonight looking forward to a nice day with my little family. Happy Holidays to everyone and I hope yours are all you wish for.   :!: :!:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> And we rarely hear about, or maybe it's only me, the Federal Commodity Supplemental Food Program which provides supplemental foods to the elderly and qualifying women with small children. http://www.fns.usda.gov/csfp/commodity-supplemental-food-program-csfp


You really ought to post that as an original thread, MIB, I bet that there are lots of folks here who wouldn't feel comfy using the SNAP card in a grocery with people they might know around who would be OK with using this. 
I am not sure how the individual family part of this program works, I used to get the famous cheese and butter when I was doing child care. Any of us involved in what was an extension of the school lunch program could make use of those supplements. We had to go grab the items from a semi in a supermarket parking lot. 
What a zoo that used to be!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> You really ought to post that as an original thread, MIB, I bet that there are lots of folks here who wouldn't feel comfy using the SNAP card in a grocery with people they might know around who would be OK with using this.
> I am not sure how the individual family part of this program works, I used to get the famous cheese and butter when I was doing child care. Any of us involved in what was an extension of the school lunch program could make use of those supplements. We had to go grab the items from a semi in a supermarket parking lot.
> What a zoo that used to be!


Good idea. I remember this program from the early 1970's, with the brown wrapping and boxes. Oh, the cheese!! As far as I can tell this program now benefits individual women with small children, individual elderly people, and some food programs. It also is only intended to supplement what people already have, so they have a nutritious diet. Still, it's something.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good idea. I remember this program from the early 1970's, with the brown wrapping and boxes. Oh, the cheese!! As far as I can tell this program now benefits individual women with small children, individual elderly people, and some food programs. It also is only intended to supplement what people already have, so they have a nutritious diet. Still, it's something.


Indeed, every little bit helps even that awful peanut butter. I wonder if they still give that out. It was only good for cookies, I suppose with allergies they probably don't in case it bursts and contaminates other food. 
Someone might as well benefit from all the farm subsidies we give, not that there is a direct connection there other than the agency.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Kudos for this post. "Think about Obama as a person...". That's a powerful comment. Are any of us fit to judge because I truly think from the comments I have read, none are. I thing that those that criticize everything the President does must be such pathetic and angry individuals. Thank goodness they are not my mother or grandmother. Yuck!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good idea. I remember this program from the early 1970's, with the brown wrapping and boxes. Oh, the cheese!! As far as I can tell this program now benefits individual women with small children, individual elderly people, and some food programs. It also is only intended to supplement what people already have, so they have a nutritious diet. Still, it's something.


My mother qualified for this stuff after becoming disabled in the 80s. I remember the peanut butter and canned stuff--talk about no-frills packaging! Hard to believe any conservatives could have a problem with the program--it's perfectly clear that this stuff is meant, quite simply, to keep folks alive.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> My mother qualified for this stuff after becoming disabled in the 80s. I remember the peanut butter and canned stuff--talk about no-frills packaging! Hard to believe any conservatives could have a problem with the program--it's perfectly clear that this stuff is meant, quite simply, to keep folks alive.


It would probably just be thrown away if the program didn't pay producers for it. Maybe that's what the "conservatives" (who seems to be opposed to conservation in any form) would prefer.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It would probably just be thrown away if the program didn't pay producers for it. Maybe that's what the "conservatives" (who seems to be opposed to conservation in any form) would prefer.


For some reason, I think of warehouses filled with food that doesn't get distributes as well as it should, or not at all sometimes. Throwing good food away seems like a cardinal sin to me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> For some reason, I think of warehouses filled with food that doesn't get distributes as well as it should, or not at all sometimes. Throwing good food away seems like a cardinal sin to me.


That's been known to happen, certainly in other countries; I hope not here.

Your major error is in calling the food "good," rather than simply "edible" or "nutritious."

And while I'm correcting you (a constant temptation to a former copy editor), the Russian newspaper is I*z*vestia, not I*n*vestia, as you wrote it a few days ago. Sorry, I can't help myself.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> And with no prospect of new 'entitlements.' Oh, don't forget to make sure their jobs are gone......with NO Unemployment Insurance.......at Christmas. Happy Holidays.


Has anyone revised Jonathan Swifts "A Modest Proposal" and turned it into proposed legislation yet? Seems like that's the next step for food programs...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Has anyone revised Jonathan Swifts "A Modest Proposal" and turned it into proposed legislation yet? Seems like that's the next step for food programs...


Not funny!

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's been known to happen, certainly in other countries; I hope not here.
> 
> Your major error is in calling the food "good," rather than simply "edible" or "nutritious."
> 
> And while I'm correcting you (a constant temptation to a former copy editor), the Russian newspaper is I*z*vestia, not I*n*vestia, as you wrote it a few days ago. Sorry, I can't help myself.


I never said I was a great typist...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not funny!
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


I couldn't resist mentioning it... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I never said I was a great typist...


Actually, I couldn't tell at first whether it was on purpose. A Communist newspaper named for investing was a funny idea.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Tick tock, once again the Obama clock has been stopped. A shocker, another deadline for Obamacare has passed but thank goodness Obama is giving people another chance to sign up. But then again, if they sign up, will their payment go through and will the insurance companies get their applications in English and not in gibberish. But I doubt we will ever know, because this administration has been so transparent.
> 
> So to sum it up......Deadlines have come and gone over and over again. The website is a disaster and is in constant need for 'scheduled maintenance'. The backend of the website is unsecure and payments are not going through. Obama lied about his symbolic signup, he had his staffers do it. (Isn't it nice that he doesn't have to have his own healthcare program and save all that money?) He has never admitted that he lied over and over again to the American people about being able to keep their plan, doctors and saving $2500.00 a year.
> 
> In addition, Obama has so little regard for Christmas Eve that he believe millions of people will be waiting in line to sign up rather than spend time at church or with their families. But what does he care; he doesn't have to have Obamacare and he is on a two week vacation.


While the state exchanges must notify the public of security breeches, (the private sector is also required to report security breeches), the federal government is NOT required to do so. Knowing that the federal site is not considered secure and add that the federal government isn't required to notify users of a security breech, this should create an all over warm and fuzzy feeling while interacting with the Obamacare website. LTL, where else would anyone want to be than stuck to their computer hopefully signing up for Obamacare on Christmas eve? Maybe we should all get someone else to sign up for us and call it a night.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Nobody does if they have a choice.


Really? Wow are you ever naive. People make a living off of the system - and that covers all income brackets.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> While the state exchanges must notify the public of security breeches, (the private sector is also required to report security breeches), the federal government is NOT required to do so. Knowing that the federal site is not considered secure and add that the federal government isn't required to notify users of a security breech, this should create an all over warm and fuzzy feeling while interacting with the Obamacare website. LTL, where else would anyone want to be than stuck to their computer hopefully signing up for Obamacare on Christmas eve? Maybe we should all get someone else to sign up for us and call it a night.


Oh, please. Americans are only too willing to cut short or skip altogether those cozy traditional dinners and time with their families so they can line up outside the stores on Thanksgiving.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> ********************************
> You have to admit it has a great appeal to the ignorant.


You should be nicer when speaking about yourself and your friends.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Really? Wow are you ever naive. People make a living off of the system - and that covers all income brackets.


You may be right about the system as a whole, where the higher income brackets seem to make a much better living than the rest. They certainly choose to remain in the system for as long as Congress gives them "subsidies." Not for welfare, however. They get so little that there's no percentage in staying on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> While the state exchanges must notify the public of security breeches, (the private sector is also required to report security breeches), the federal government is NOT required to do so. Knowing that the federal site is not considered secure and add that the federal government isn't required to notify users of a security breech, this should create an all over warm and fuzzy feeling while interacting with the Obamacare website. LTL, where else would anyone want to be than stuck to their computer hopefully signing up for Obamacare on Christmas eve? Maybe we should all get someone else to sign up for us and call it a night.


You guys are forever talking about panties - look up "breeches" (usu. pron. 'britches') vs. "breaches."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You should be nicer when speaking about yourself and your friends.


Do you have even the foggiest idea what was being discussed? I doubt it - you wouldn't have been so quick to try (unsuccessfully) to insult us.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, it's very Christian of you to offer to spend your Christmas signing others up for ACA......God bless you.


soloweygirl said:


> While the state exchanges must notify the public of security breeches, (the private sector is also required to report security breeches), the federal government is NOT required to do so. Knowing that the federal site is not considered secure and add that the federal government isn't required to notify users of a security breech, this should create an all over warm and fuzzy feeling while interacting with the Obamacare website. LTL, where else would anyone want to be than stuck to their computer hopefully signing up for Obamacare on Christmas eve? Maybe we should all get someone else to sign up for us and call it a night.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, people with any kind of self-respect, will only use help from the government if they truly need it. Then discontinue using it when they get on their feet ....Others maybe not so much. But NOT EVERYONE is out to bilk the system. You are a very cynical person.


soloweygirl said:


> Really? Wow are you ever naive. People make a living off of the system - and that covers all income brackets.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's what she does when she doesn't have a clue....It's her way of trying to side step that fact that she is clueless.


Poor Purl said:


> Do you have even the foggiest idea what was being discussed? I doubt it - you wouldn't have been so quick to try (unsuccessfully) to insult us.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Great come back soloweygirl......NOT!!!


soloweygirl said:


> You should be nicer when speaking about yourself and your friends.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And we who don't have to sit and sulk? Phooey.


Well, what do YOU do on Christmas?

Having missed Hanukkah by a bunch this year, I was a little at a loss, though I do realize that many Jews do celebrate the secular parts of Christmas, probably because it's such an overwhelming milieu to be in for such a long stretch each year. I mean, is it even possible to escape it?

I did consider wishing you a terrific Chinese meal. 

So, please tell me what would have worked for you?

I was thinking about this "overwhelming" and all-consuming milieu last night. I think if I were in charge of Christianity I would pull "my" religious observance out of the 25th and plunk it down on the 28th or something. Let the 25th be "Xmas" or come up with a new name for the birthday bash on the 28th. After all, it's just an arbitrary date to begin with, meant to coincide with and supplant all the old pagan Solstice celebrations ("or else," speaking of overwhelming and all-consuming).

I think I'm in an odd mood today.

In ANY case, Purl, Happy/Merry Whatever tomorrow (and this evening). And after that, a VERY Happy and Prosperous New Year!!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for that, Knitry.
> I couldn't help but think of the small experiment done by a few in Congress this past autumn through which people limited their food budgets to the amount allowed by SNAP.
> It seems to me that those who voted for the cutbacks, those like the snakelike Stephen Southerland and the repugnant Rand Paul should have to live on that food budget for six months. Then perhaps, have that amount cut off.


I couldn't agree more, but one problem is that they tend to think the down-and-out are to blame for their own problems and thus don't DESERVE help. And snce they are in the positions they hold because they deserve that, they could never actually deserve to be poor enough to need foodstamps, so ... it wouldn't necessarily engender any compassion.

I was interested in this stoy the other day about Jim Inhoffe:



> *Archconservative Jim Inhofe Has Change Of Heart About Democrats*
> WASHINGTON -- One of the most partisan Republicans in the Senate, Oklahoma's Jim Inhofe, said Sunday that his "attitude" toward Senate Democrats has changed as a result of the outpouring of sympathy he received from colleagues after the death of his son. Perry Inhofe, 52, was killed in a plane crash in November.
> 
> "I probably shouldn't say this, but I seem to have gotten more -- well at least as many, maybe more -- communications from some of my Democrat friends," Inhofe told host David Gregory on NBC's "Meet the Press." "And I'm a pretty partisan Republican."
> ...


As others noted, they have no compassion at all -- until they have to go through it. At least this guy was able to appreciate the outreach and compassion shown him. That's not always the case.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, what do YOU do on Christmas?
> 
> Having missed Hanukkah by a bunch this year, I was a little at a loss, though I do realize that many Jews do celebrate the secular parts of Christmas, probably because it's such an overwhelming milieu to be in for such a long stretch each year. I mean, is it even possible to escape it?
> 
> ...


In my husband's native country of Serbia, the winter festivities can be stretched out for weeks if one is so inclined. The official calendar is of course the Gregorian, but lots of folks observe the Julian as well. End result: two Christmases and two New Years roughly two weeks apart. And to complicate matters further, under the Communists people were encouraged to exchange gifts and decorate trees for New Year's rather than Christmas. For a Westerner it gets VERY confusing and troublesome, especially as so many businesses shut their doors for the entire period.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> That's what she does when she doesn't have a clue....It's her way of trying to side step that fact that she is clueless.


And doesn't read.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, what do YOU do on Christmas?
> 
> Having missed Hanukkah by a bunch this year, I was a little at a loss, though I do realize that many Jews do celebrate the secular parts of Christmas, probably because it's such an overwhelming milieu to be in for such a long stretch each year. I mean, is it even possible to escape it?
> 
> ...


I hope everyone's in an odd mood today. At least you know about the Christmas tradition of the Chinese dinner. I once worked with a Catholic girl from Boston, whose family always went to a Chinese restaurant on Christmas; she said her mother was a horrible cook, and they could always find a table.

I could always go out to the front to fight the war on Christmas, but so far that's never gotten me anywhere.

You might be amused by something my son just emailed me, written like a collection of Jewish law, call The Laws of Xmas, which shows how different Judaism is from Christianity and why the rest of you don't really understand us. It is also very funny, esp. if you know how obsessive Jewish law is (very). In fact, I'll PM you with the url; it contains most of the translations you need, and I can supply the rest.

A very merry Christmas to you and your family.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Purl says:

You might be amused by something my son just emailed me, written like a collection of Jewish law, call The Laws of Xmas, which shows how different Judaism is from Christianity and why the rest of you don't really understand us. It is also very funny, esp. if you know how obsessive Jewish law is (very). In fact, I'll PM you with the url; it contains most of the translations you need, and I can supply the rest.


Does it seem to you that anyone understands anybody?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Purl says:
> 
> You might be amused by something my son just emailed me, written like a collection of Jewish law, call The Laws of Xmas, which shows how different Judaism is from Christianity and why the rest of you don't really understand us. It is also very funny, esp. if you know how obsessive Jewish law is (very). In fact, I'll PM you with the url; it contains most of the translations you need, and I can supply the rest.
> 
> Does it seem to you that anyone understands anybody?


I have to; I'm a licensed psychotherapist. :roll:

Seriously, I think nobody understands anyone else entirely; it's the type of *mis*understanding that makes it easier or harder to get along. Understand? :wink:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I have to; I'm a licensed psychotherapist. :roll:
> 
> Seriously, I think nobody understands anyone else entirely; it's the type of *mis*understanding that makes it easier or harder to get along. Understand? :wink:


Some of what I understand is that it can be harder to understand or accept the misunderstanding of someone we are close to. 
Not understanding someone we don't care about (that opposite of love thing) really doesn't matter. 
Sometimes being the person who is SUPPOSED to understand is hardest of all.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope everyone's in an odd mood today. At least you know about the Christmas tradition of the Chinese dinner. I once worked with a Catholic girl from Boston, whose family always went to a Chinese restaurant on Christmas; she said her mother was a horrible cook, and they could always find a table.
> 
> I could always go out to the front to fight the war on Christmas, but so far that's never gotten me anywhere.
> 
> ...


The link was fabulous. Thanks.

Love the story about the Catholics in a Chinese restaurant.

One year when I basically went on strike and said "I am NOT fixing another Thanksgiving meal so we're going out this year," we enjoyed the experience so much we decided to do the same for Christmas. One problem: there weren't as many restaurants open for Christmas dinner, and what we thought would be a nice Hotel Restaurant meal ended up being just barely there food service for any stranded travelers. Chinese would've been heavenly by comparison!!

The last 2 years we bought our T'giving meals from local groceries and were fairly pleased -- esp. compared to the amount of work involved in the typical T'giving meal. But this year I am trying to really do something about my gluten intolerance, but we did find Kroger, I think, offering a gluten-free meal. When I went online to check out the menu, they also included ingredients for each menu item. OMG. You wouldn't believe all the chemicals. UNBELIEVABLE list of chemicals for each and every item - but no gluten, that's for sure. Now tell me why mashed potatoes needs a single chemical of any kind. My recipe is: potatoes, butter, milk, s&p -- not a single chemical. Sheesh. So it was back to the drawing board, er kitchen, and we were cooking at home once again. But at least eating quite a few less chemicals (tho I do worry what we get in those turkeys).

Thanks for the lovely Christmas wishes, Purl. Same to you -- and everyone.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Some of what I understand is that it can be harder to understand or accept the misunderstanding of someone we are close to.
> Not understanding someone we don't care about (that opposite of love thing) really doesn't matter.
> Sometimes being the person who is SUPPOSED to understand is hardest of all.


I'm not sure I understand. I do admire the number of times you managed to use the word in such a short space.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not sure I understand. I do admire the number of times you managed to use the word in such a short space.


It was, for the most part, to get the joke in about being meant to understand!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love those Jesuits.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! You really don't read. Remember this from the Jesuits? "Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Cut off of what?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can still hear my Grandmother admonishing "Don't waste food." And no one ever left her door hungry.

Happy Holidays everyone.



MaidInBedlam said:


> For some reason, I think of warehouses filled with food that doesn't get distributes as well as it should, or not at all sometimes. Throwing good food away seems like a cardinal sin to me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you REALLY believe that?



soloweygirl said:


> Really? Wow are you ever naive. People make a living off of the system - and that covers all income brackets.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh, please. Americans are only too willing to cut short or skip altogether those cozy traditional dinners and time with their families so they can line up outside the stores on Thanksgiving.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Has anyone revised Jonathan Swifts "A Modest Proposal" and turned it into proposed legislation yet? Seems like that's the next step for food programs...


I think that is in line AFTER the 2014 elections.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I can still hear my Grandmother admonishing "Don't waste food." And no one ever left her door hungry.
> 
> Happy Holidays everyone.


I remember stories about there being so much of this surplus food that it was ridiculous that it was left for distribution until it was ready to go bad.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You guys are forever talking about panties - look up "breeches" (usu. pron. 'britches') vs. "breaches."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, people with any kind of self-respect, will only use help from the government if they truly need it. Then discontinue using it when they get on their feet ....Others maybe not so much. But NOT EVERYONE is out to bilk the system. You are a very cynical person.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There's always Happy Festivus. Good will to all.



Knitry said:


> Well, what do YOU do on Christmas?
> 
> Having missed Hanukkah by a bunch this year, I was a little at a loss, though I do realize that many Jews do celebrate the secular parts of Christmas, probably because it's such an overwhelming milieu to be in for such a long stretch each year. I mean, is it even possible to escape it?
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And is proud of it.



Poor Purl said:


> And doesn't read.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not sure I understand. I do admire the number of times you managed to use the word in such a short space.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> It was, for the most part, to get the joke in about being meant to understand!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh you two are a pair. Thanks for the chuckles. My husband says, 'huh?'


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> The link was fabulous. Thanks.
> 
> Love the story about the Catholics in a Chinese restaurant.
> 
> ...


Your mashed potatoes don't need a shelf life; Kroger is not so lucky. And we all wonder what's in those turkeys, chickens, geese, cows, .... If Monsanto has their way, even vegetables won't be safe.

I've been getting emails and catalogs from King Arthur flour. They sell all kinds of flour, some of which is organic, but they also sell what they call "enhancers," stuff to keep bread from going stale or to add flavor. These I've avoided, but I bought some vanilla extract and vanilla paste (a thickened form of extract), and both have sugar in them. Since you pretty much use vanilla in baking, and you've already put sugar in or used a substitute bc you can't have sugar, why would there be sugar in the vanilla? I'm becoming disenchanted with King Arthur. I wonder whether there's a Morgan le Fay flour company.

They do have a lot of gluten free flours, though.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It was, for the most part, to get the joke in about being meant to understand!


That's exactly what I hoped was the case. Another example of your humorlessness, I suppose.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that is in line AFTER the 2014 elections.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> There's always Happy Festivus. Good will to all.


I forgot about Festivus. Of course.

Happy Festivus, everyone.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> As others noted, they have no compassion at all -- until they have to go through it. At least this guy was able to appreciate the outreach and compassion shown him. That's not always the case.


The Imhoffe story is interesting. I may be wrong, but I've never seen the names of any of our RWN acquaintances among the responses to a KP member asking for prayers - except for Country Bumpkins, who writes out her whole prayer in her response. I've seen responses from several of us, but not from the holy rollers. Has anyone seen them?

There was also a piece in a) Truthdig about b) a PBS show about c) a study done in Berkeley showing "links between wealth and selfish, anti-social behavior." http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/pbs_news_hour_money_on_the_mind_20131223

I'd like to see the PBS piece, too.

Edited: It's interesting, and it's less than 10 minutes long. http://video.pbs.org/video/2365029352/


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> There's always Happy Festivus. Good will to all.


You can't have Festivus. Faux News had a hissy fit about it this year.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You can't have Festivus. Faux News had a hissy fit about it this year.


A hissy Fox is not to be sneezed at.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll check this out later. Just skimming through on Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.



Poor Purl said:


> The Imhoffe story is interesting. I may be wrong, but I've never seen the names of any of our RWN acquaintances among the responses to a KP member asking for prayers - except for Country Bumpkins, who writes out her whole prayer in her response. I've seen responses from several of us, but not from the holy rollers. Has anyone seen them?
> 
> There was also a piece in a) Truthdig about b) a PBS show about c) a study done in Berkeley showing "links between wealth and selfish, anti-social behavior." http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/pbs_news_hour_money_on_the_mind_20131223
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's still a free country, and I'm just stubborn enough not to let Faux News tell me what to do. Indeed!

I'd fight this battle alone, if necessary.



sumpleby said:


> You can't have Festivus. Faux News had a hissy fit about it this year.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> A hissy Fox is not to be sneezed at.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Purl! I guess you're allergic to Fox News too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I forgot about Festivus. Of course.
> 
> Happy Festivus, everyone.


...for the rest of us.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> It's still a free country, and I'm just stubborn enough not to let Faux News tell me what to do. Indeed!
> 
> I'd fight this battle alone, if necessary.


My Santa Day gift to my NJ SIL is a donation to the FL chapter of the ACLU, I am sure they will be helping the fellow who is suing for the cheap trick that FL community pulled on the Festivus gentleman.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> A hissy Fox is not to be sneezed at.


Hissy FOX makes me sneeze incessantly, an allergy perhaps?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Imhoffe story is interesting. I may be wrong, but I've never seen the names of any of our RWN acquaintances among the responses to a KP member asking for prayers - except for Country Bumpkins, who writes out her whole prayer in her response. I've seen responses from several of us, but not from the holy rollers. Has anyone seen them?
> 
> There was also a piece in a) Truthdig about b) a PBS show about c) a study done in Berkeley showing "links between wealth and selfish, anti-social behavior." http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/pbs_news_hour_money_on_the_mind_20131223
> 
> ...


Well, read my mind. 
That Inhoffe is so FOS, it is astounding. 
Does that flaming POS really believe that we will believe that after all these years in the senate and in politics he is just figuring out now that libs are nicer people that conservatives? 
That IS the division you lying sack... empathy vs selfishness, caring vs cold... the man is serving up doggie dinner.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well, read my mind.
> That Inhoffe is so FOS, it is astounding.
> Does that flaming POS really believe that we will believe that after all these years in the senate and in politics he is just figuring out now that libs are nicer people that conservatives?
> That IS the division you lying sack... empathy vs selfishness, caring vs cold... the man is serving up doggie dinner.


How could you say that about the man who is certain those same caring colleagues made up global climate change? But I think it _is_ a new idea to him. People judge others by their own moral standards, and until now it never occurred to him that anyone in distress could use a few comforting words. Now that he's seen it work, he probably understands better.

That study on what money (real or Monopoly) does to people also finds that when the "rich" status is revoked, empathy returns. Maybe Imhoffe needed to lose something to realize there's another way to judge people. Anyway, soon it will be New Year's, and he can start forgetting what he just learned.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Purl! I guess you're allergic to Fox News too.


I'm not allergic, any more than I'm allergic to raw fish. I won't eat sushi, and I won't watch Fox News.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> My Santa Day gift to my NJ SIL is a donation to the FL chapter of the ACLU, I am sure they will be helping the fellow who is suing for the cheap trick that FL community pulled on the Festivus gentleman.


Is your SIL someone you really like or someone you really don't?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How could you say that about the man who is certain those same caring colleagues made up global climate change? But I think it _is_ a new idea to him. People judge others by their own moral standards, and until now it never occurred to him that anyone in distress could use a few comforting words. Now that he's seen it work, he probably understands better.
> 
> That study on what money (real or Monopoly) does to people also finds that when the "rich" status is revoked, empathy returns. Maybe Imhoffe needed to lose something to realize there's another way to judge people. Anyway, soon it will be New Year's, and he can start forgetting what he just learned.


You are so much the better person than I, or maybe solowey, or was it joey? I always confuse the 2, perhaps you are not being sarcastic and are just collossally naive. :idea: ;-)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Is your SIL someone you really like or someone you really don't?


LOL, there is no REALLY about it. He is the SIL I am lukewarm about. He does share my twisted sense of what is fair and that that the city played a dirty trick will suit him. 
We both like the ACLU most of the time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe she's hopeful.



jelun2 said:


> You are so much the better person than I, or maybe solowey, or was it joey? I always confuse the 2, perhaps you are not being sarcastic and are just collossally naive. :idea: ;-)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You are so much the better person than I, or maybe solowey, or was it joey? I always confuse the 2, perhaps you are not being sarcastic and are just collossally naive. :idea: ;-)


Not better than you; I'm far too wealthy for that. :twisted:

But I'm probably better than both the other two put together. At least I'm smarter than Joey. That much I *do* know. Sometimes I think Solowey is just acting; she can't believe all the things she says. Joey does believe them all.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, there is no REALLY about it. He is the SIL I am lukewarm about. He does share my twisted sense of what is fair and that that the city played a dirty trick will suit him.
> We both like the ACLU most of the time.


I read SIL as sister-in-law. It's different with a son-in-law (says she who probably will never know).


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not better than you; I'm far too wealthy for that. :twisted:
> 
> But I'm probably better than both the other two put together. At least I'm smarter than Joey. That much I *do* know. Sometimes I think Solowey is just acting; she can't believe all the things she says. Joey does believe them all.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well, read my mind.
> That Inhoffe is so FOS, it is astounding.
> Does that flaming POS really believe that we will believe that after all these years in the senate and in politics he is just figuring out now that libs are nicer people that conservatives?
> That IS the division you lying sack... empathy vs selfishness, caring vs cold... the man is serving up doggie dinner.


Well, that definitely nails it. WELL said!

:thumbup:

I love it when people get right down to the nub of the matter with a succinct sentence or two. Brilliant.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Your mashed potatoes don't need a shelf life; Kroger is not so lucky. And we all wonder what's in those turkeys, chickens, geese, cows, .... If Monsanto has their way, even vegetables won't be safe.
> 
> I've been getting emails and catalogs from King Arthur flour. They sell all kinds of flour, some of which is organic, but they also sell what they call "enhancers," stuff to keep bread from going stale or to add flavor. These I've avoided, but I bought some vanilla extract and vanilla paste (a thickened form of extract), and both have sugar in them. Since you pretty much use vanilla in baking, and you've already put sugar in or used a substitute bc you can't have sugar, why would there be sugar in the vanilla? I'm becoming disenchanted with King Arthur. I wonder whether there's a Morgan le Fay flour company.
> 
> They do have a lot of gluten free flours, though.


Ah, yes, Monsanto. Another evildoer I spend too much of my precious time tracking. And too much of my precious money avoiding (buying organic instead). I will NOT eat any non-organic corn of any kind if I can avoid doing so -- and that includes things which have corn products in them (corn solids, etc.) Went a long way out of my way for organic cornstarch not long ago and spent a small fortune on a very small 8 oz. box. But at least I can use it with confidence. We pop our own organic popcorn the old fashioned way -- and it's delicious.

Same with potatoes. We buy organic potatoes for eating and only "non-GMO" potato chips.

Now I've learned that black beans -- a personal favorite of mine -- are a GMO product. So I have to switch to organic for those too.

Between my wheat/gluten - soy - dairy sensitivities (which I've finally been forced to get very serious about), my desire to also avoid sugar (which can also be GMO if made from sugar beets) and other non-food additives, the universe of food I CAN eat seems to be growing smaller and smaller, and more expensive and more expensive by the day.

Fortunately, there is an absolute REVOLUTION in food going on out there which would probably be invisible to anyone not paying attention. And foodies are VERY creative. I am barely capable of boiling water without good directions aka: recipe), and am completely devoid of anything approaching creativity in the kitchen or where food is involved. In fact I hate cooking and food prep with a passion, always have. So I'm thrilled to find an ENDLESS array of fabulous recipe blogs covering a variety of food interests: raw food, gluten-free, grain-free, Paleo, Clean Eating, and so forth and so on.

For dinner yesterday I made a faux mac and cheese dish to go with our New York Strip roast, a non-grain gravy that was rich and delicious, dinner rolls made from blanched almond flour, and chocolate brownies made of the same almond flour plus coconut flour. I made a whipped coconut milk topping with crushed peppermint candy (just a smidge of the bad stuff!!). They were all yummy and I was very pleased, and happy *I* could eat like a normal person too.

I hear ya, Purl, re the added sugar in vanilla. That's ridiculous. I have just learned that I have to read the labels on EVERYTHING. I asked DH to pick up some chewable vitamin c tablets the other day for a particular need I had. When I tried one, it was salty, because it also had sodium in them! WHY???????? Still ticks me off, several days later. I might be taking those back to the store, but will definitely call the manufacturer. No one needs added salt like that!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The Imhoffe story is interesting. I may be wrong, but I've never seen the names of any of our RWN acquaintances among the responses to a KP member asking for prayers - except for Country Bumpkins, who writes out her whole prayer in her response. I've seen responses from several of us, but not from the holy rollers. Has anyone seen them?
> 
> There was also a piece in a) Truthdig about b) a PBS show about c) a study done in Berkeley showing "links between wealth and selfish, anti-social behavior." http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/pbs_news_hour_money_on_the_mind_20131223
> 
> ...


Ack! Disgusting.

"What the mind does to make sense of advantage and disadvantage." Amazing. Thanks so much for posting those links.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Ah, yes, Monsanto. Another evildoer I spend too much of my precious time tracking. And too much of my precious money avoiding (buying organic instead). I will NOT eat any non-organic corn of any kind if I can avoid doing so -- and that includes things which have corn products in them (corn solids, etc.) Went a long way out of my way for organic cornstarch not long ago and spent a small fortune on a very small 8 oz. box. But at least I can use it with confidence. We pop our own organic popcorn the old fashioned way -- and it's delicious.
> 
> Same with potatoes. We buy organic potatoes for eating and only "non-GMO" potato chips.
> 
> ...


Your dinner yesterday sounds wonderful, even though it must have been a lot of work.

DH is very anti-organic; he's read that organic foods are no better for you than non-organic (okay, all food is organic, unless you like silicon chips with your fish). What he doesn't seem to have read is that Monsanto has done things to soybeans that are causing birth defects in fish and possibly in humans, too. He won't accept my links to lefty blogs; if it ain't in the Financial Times or something like that, it's not trustworthy.

We're fortunate that so far none of us has any food sensitivities. I hope it stays that way. I so much dislike cooking (though I love baking) that I'd hate to have to give it more attention than I already do.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL 

READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT

What to Do When ObamaCare Unravels 

Health insurance should be individual, portable across jobs, states and providers, and lifelong and renewable.

By John H. Cochrane 

Dec. 25, 2013 3:51 p.m. ET

The unraveling of the Affordable Care Act presents a historic opportunity for change. Its proponents call it "settled law," but as Prohibition taught us, not even a constitutional amendment is settled lawif it is dysfunctional enough, and if Americans can see a clear alternative.

This fall's website fiasco and policy cancellations are only the beginning. Next spring the individual mandate is likely to unravel when we see how sick the people are who signed up on exchanges, and if our government really is going to penalize voters for not buying health insurance. The employer mandate and "accountable care organizations" will take their turns in the news. There will be scandals. There will be fraud. This will go on for years.

Yet opponents should not sit back and revel in dysfunction. The Affordable Care Act was enacted in response to genuine problems. Without a clear alternative, we will simply patch more, subsidize more, and ignore frauds and scandals, as we do in Medicare and other programs.

There is an alternative. A much freer market in health care and health insurance can work, can deliver high quality, technically innovative care at much lower cost, and solve the pathologies of the pre-existing system. 

The U.S. health-care market is dysfunctional. Obscure prices and $500 Band-Aids are legendary. The reason is simple: Health care and health insurance are strongly protected from competition. There are explicit barriers to entry, for example the laws in many states that require a "certificate of need" before one can build a new hospital. Regulatory compliance costs, approvals, nonprofit status, restrictions on foreign doctors and nurses, limits on medical residencies, and many more barriers keep prices up and competitors out. Hospitals whose main clients are uncompetitive insurers and the government cannot innovate and provide efficient cash service. 

We need to permit the Southwest Airlines, LUV 0.00% Wal-Mart, WMT +0.49% Amazon.com AMZN +1.30% and Apples of the world to bring to health care the same dramatic improvements in price, quality, variety, technology and efficiency that they brought to air travel, retail and electronics. We'll know we are there when prices are on hospital websites, cash customers get discounts, and new hospitals and insurers swamp your inbox with attractive offers and great service. 

The Affordable Care Act bets instead that more regulation, price controls, effectiveness panels, and "accountable care" organizations will force efficiency, innovation, quality and service from the top down. Has this ever worked? Did we get smartphones by government pressure on the 1960s AT&T T +0.60% phone monopoly? Did effectiveness panels force United Airlines and American Airlines to cut costs, and push TWA and Pan Am out of business? Did the post office invent FedEx, FDX +0.92% UPS and email? How about public schools or the last 20 or more health-care "cost control" ideas? 

Only deregulation can unleash competition. And only disruptive competition, where new businesses drive out old ones, will bring efficiency, lower costs and innovation.

Health insurance should be individual, portable across jobs, states and providers; lifelong and guaranteed-renewable, meaning you have the right to continue with no unexpected increase in premiums if you get sick. Insurance should protect wealth against large, unforeseen, necessary expenses, rather than be a wildly inefficient payment plan for routine expenses. 

People want to buy this insurance, and companies want to sell it. It would be far cheaper, and would solve the pre-existing conditions problem. We do not have such health insurance only because it was regulated out of existence. Businesses cannot establish or contribute to portable individual policies, or employees would have to pay taxes. So businesses only offer group plans. Knowing they will abandon individual insurance when they get a job, and without cross-state portability, there is little reason for young people to invest in lifelong, portable health insurance. Mandated coverage, pressure against full risk rating, and a dysfunctional cash market did the rest. 

Rather than a mandate for employer-based groups, we should transition to fully individual-based health insurance. Allow national individual insurance offered and sold to anyone, anywhere, without the tangled mess of state mandates and regulations. Allow employers to contribute to individual insurance at least on an even basis with group plans. Current group plans can convert to individual plans, at once or as people leave. Since all members in a group convert, there is no adverse selection of sicker people.

ObamaCare defenders say we must suffer the dysfunction and patch the law, because there is no alternative. They are wrong. On Nov. 2, for example, New York Times NYT +2.04% columnist Nicholas Kristof wrote movingly about his friend who lost employer-based insurance and died of colon cancer. Mr. Kristof concluded, "This is why we need Obamacare." No, this is why we need individual, portable, guaranteed-renewable, inexpensive, catastrophic-coverage insurance.

On Nov. 15, MIT's Jonathan Gruber, an ObamaCare architect, argued on Realclearpolitics that "we currently have a highly discriminatory system where if you're sick, if you've been sick or you're going to get sick, you cannot get health insurance." We do. He concluded that the Affordable Care Act is "the only way to end that discriminatory system." It is not. 

On Dec. 3, President Obama himself said that "the only alternative that Obamacare's critics have, is, well, let's just go back to the status quo." Not so.

What about the homeless guy who has a heart attack? Yes, there must be private and government-provided charity care for the very poor. What if people don't get enough checkups? Send them vouchers. To solve these problems we do not need a federal takeover of health care and insurance for you, me, and every American. 

No other country has a free health market, you may object. The rest of the world is closer to single payer, and spends less. 

Sure. We can have a single government-run airline too. We can ban FedEx and UPS, and have a single-payer post office. We can have government-run telephones and TV. Thirty years ago every other country had all of these, and worthies said that markets couldn't work for travel, package delivery, the "natural monopoly" of telephones and TV. Until we tried it. That the rest of the world spends less just shows how dysfunctional our current system is, not how a free market would work. 

While economically straightforward, liberalization is always politically hard. Innovation and cost reduction require new businesses to displace familiar, well-connected incumbents. Protected businesses spawn "good jobs" for protected workers, dues for their unions, easy lives for their managers, political support for their regulators and politicians, and cushy jobs for health-policy wonks. Protection from competition allows private insurance to cross-subsidize Medicare, Medicaid, and emergency rooms. 

But it can happen. The first step is, the American public must understand that there is an alternative. Stand up and demand it.

Mr. Cochrane is a professor of finance at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, a senior fellow of the Hoover institution, and an adjunct scholar of the Cato institute.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT


Thank you. I'll skip it, but I hope you're having a lovely day today.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Your dinner yesterday sounds wonderful, even though it must have been a lot of work.
> 
> DH is very anti-organic; he's read that organic foods are no better for you than non-organic (okay, all food is organic, unless you like silicon chips with your fish). What he doesn't seem to have read is that Monsanto has done things to soybeans that are causing birth defects in fish and possibly in humans, too. He won't accept my links to lefty blogs; if it ain't in the Financial Times or something like that, it's not trustworthy.
> 
> We're fortunate that so far none of us has any food sensitivities. I hope it stays that way. I so much dislike cooking (though I love baking) that I'd hate to have to give it more attention than I already do.


Dinner was probably no more work than normal hliday prep (well, except those wonderful eating out experiences). The baked goods were simple and easy. The hard part was choosing exactly which recipes and oher planning. 

Will your DH be interested in this, or are scientists also too lefty?? I ask because so many people seem to believe climate scientists are lyin' fools as well and might think other "concerned" scientific types might be considered equally suspect.

*Open Letter from World Scientists to All Governments Concerning Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs)*
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/list.php?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d5fd9b8d65f4976%2C0

How about this one, which might help plant the notion that what's commonly known and reported may not be the whole truth and nothing but the truth:



> *Scientists must ask corporations for permission before publishing independent research on genetically modified crops. That restriction must end* By The Editors (of Scientific American)
> 
> "Unfortunately, it is impossible to verify that genetically modified crops perform as advertised. That is because agritech companies have given themselves veto power over the work of independent researchers.
> 
> ...


This is probably way too lefty (read the author's bio at bottom), but I really have to pass it along at least to you:

*GM Wheat May Damage Human Genetics Permanently* http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/gm-wheat-may-damage-human-genetics-permanently?utm_source=www.GreenMedInfo.com&utm_campaign=2df98be6c2-Greenmedinfo&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_193c8492fb-2df98be6c2-86841665

and this:



> * How GMO Farming and Food Is Making Our Gut Flora UNFRIENDLY* Written by Sayer Ji, Founder
> 
> Two studies published in the past six months reveal a disturbing finding: glyphosate-based herbicide formulations such as Roundup® suppress the growth of beneficial gut bacteria and lead to the overgrowth of harmful ones.
> 
> http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/how-gmo-farming-and-food-making-our-gut-flora-unfriendly


Finally, I feel compelled to mention that many healthcare experts believe that some of the fairly dramatic increase in numerous food allergies including wheat sensitivity, gastrointestinal problems (celiac disease, IBS, etc.) are due to GMOs.

So you might consider sourcing nice organic versions of anything containing corn and soy at least. Oh yes, and wheat. Knowing what I know about GMOs, I would advise everyone, even my worst enemies, the same. It's some serious s***. Or, in Joe Biden's immortal words, a BFD.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT
> 
> ...


I read it and dismiss it as more baloney. I just don't trust the "free marketplace" and deregulation in the area of healthcare. Can you imagine what your healthcare insurance could do to you if there weren't regulations? "Can't have that test it's too costly." "Let's convene the death panels to see if this sucker should live or die." "We can't insure you---you're diabetic, 55, and have other pre-existing conditions." 
Need I go on? Lukelucy, why would you out your trust in deregulated big business to decide what benefits you're entitled to under your health insurance policy?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I read it and dismiss it as more baloney. I just don't trust the "free marketplace" and deregulation in the area of healthcare. Can you imagine what your healthcare insurance could do to you if there weren't regulations? "Can't have that test it's too costly." "Let's convene the death panels to see if this sucker should live or die." "We can't insure you---you're diabetic, 55, and have other pre-existing conditions."
> Need I go on? Lukelucy, why would you out your trust in deregulated big business to decide what benefits you're entitled to under your health insurance policy?


The only people who can sensibly put their faith in deregulated business are the 1/10th of 1%ers. 
Any of the rest of the rich who think that they are guaranteed a spot in the roles of the richest are just dreaming. 
They should take a peak at the Forbes list from the 80s and compare it to 2010. I think they will learn something.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I read it and dismiss it as more baloney. I just don't trust the "free marketplace" and deregulation in the area of healthcare. Can you imagine what your healthcare insurance could do to you if there weren't regulations? "Can't have that test it's too costly." "Let's convene the death panels to see if this sucker should live or die." "We can't insure you---you're diabetic, 55, and have other pre-existing conditions."
> Need I go on? Lukelucy, why would you out your trust in deregulated big business to decide what benefits you're entitled to under your health insurance policy?


The only people who can sensibly put their faith in deregulated business are the 1/10th of 1%ers. 
Any of the rest of the rich who think that they are guaranteed a spot in the roles of the richest are just dreaming. 
They should take a peak at the Forbes list from the 80s and compare it to 2010. I think they will learn something.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Well, that definitely nails it. WELL said!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> I love it when people get right down to the nub of the matter with a succinct sentence or two. Brilliant.


Well TY, I get it right once in a while.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Finally, I feel compelled to mention that many healthcare experts believe that some of the fairly dramatic increase in numerous food allergies including wheat sensitivity, gastrointestinal problems (celiac disease, IBS, etc.) are due to GMOs.
> 
> So you might consider sourcing nice organic versions of anything containing corn and soy at least. Oh yes, and wheat. Knowing what I know about GMOs, I would advise everyone, even my worst enemies, the same. It's some serious s***. Or, in Joe Biden's immortal words, a BFD.


Okay, you have me shivering in my slippers. I'll try to get him to look at the articles, but I may not succeed.

Thank you for coming up with all this. I nominate you for corresponding secretary, or maybe librarian if you prefer (you get to wear brown oxfords and shush people).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I read it and dismiss it as more baloney. I just don't trust the "free marketplace" and deregulation in the area of healthcare. Can you imagine what your healthcare insurance could do to you if there weren't regulations? "Can't have that test it's too costly." "Let's convene the death panels to see if this sucker should live or die." "We can't insure you---you're diabetic, 55, and have other pre-existing conditions."
> Need I go on? Lukelucy, why would you out your trust in deregulated big business to decide what benefits you're entitled to under your health insurance policy?


But at least it wouldn't be Obama's plan. Would it have been more acceptable to LL if it was still the Heritage Foundation's plan? Who knows? I suspect that what's uppermost in her mind is "Obama bad bad bad," which is why reason doesn't get through.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No thank you. Hope you had a nice holiday.



Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I wonder how many people scroll through your WSJ puff pieces.


Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY IMPORTANT
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But at least it wouldn't be Obama's plan. Would it have been more acceptable to LL if it was still the Heritage Foundation's plan? Who knows? I suspect that what's uppermost in her mind is "Obama bad bad bad," which is why reason doesn't get through.


Which is exactly why we know the reason for all the vitriol about this plan and the assurances that it won't work. 
The foolishness about Nancy Pelosi's "read it after" and all that. The main thrust of the plan had been kicking around for well over a decade and plenty of people had at least a vague idea of the outline for the ACA. 
Ah well, someday we will get to go through this all over again when we finally switch to a socialized plan.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Which is exactly why we know the reason for all the vitriol about this plan and the assurances that it won't work.
> The foolishness about Nancy Pelosi's "read it after" and all that. The main thrust of the plan had been kicking around for well over a decade and plenty of people had at least a vague idea of the outline for the ACA.
> Ah well, someday we will get to go through this all over again when we finally switch to a socialized plan.


You're a lot more optimistic than I am. Let me rephrase that: I don't want a socialized plan, but I do want single-payer. I like the way straight Medicare has been working, but I don't like those "medicare advantage" plans, in which the insurance companies provide a lot of things actually paid for by the government but act as HMOs.

Obama said early on he would get rid of those, which would have cut down the cost of Medicare. We should have known that what he _really_ meant was he would keep those plans and give the insurance companies even more.

That's my bit of Obama-worship for today, in case LTL is reading more than the last line of each post.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I wonder how many people scroll through your WSJ puff pieces.


May I suggest that when you hit "quote reply," you delete most of the puff piece? We keep repeating those fake articles, when all we need is a quote from LL about how important this is, the headline, and maybe a first paragraph. Then we wouldn't even need to scroll. They are not worth the bandwidth we give them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Which is exactly why we know the reason for all the vitriol about this plan and the assurances that it won't work.
> The foolishness about Nancy Pelosi's "read it after" and all that. The main thrust of the plan had been kicking around for well over a decade and plenty of people had at least a vague idea of the outline for the ACA.
> Ah well, someday we will get to go through this all over again when we finally switch to a socialized plan.


I agree with you, Jelun, about the benefits of socialized medicine--but as far as most Americans go it's a hard sell.

I often wonder if the ultra-conservatives realize how bad all the flap about the ACA is making our country look in the eyes of the world. When our son fell ill in Serbia my husband and I were preparing to take him to Belgrade to hunt for a private doctor to treat him--and my in-laws were stunned. They simply couldn't believe that we didn't view the local clinic as an option for us--foreigners or no. No doctor would turn away a sick child, they insisted...and happily they were correct.

The whole incident marked a major shift in my perceptions, and theirs as well I believe. Until that day they'd viewed America as the Promised Land, but this really served as an eye-opener to the basic inequalities inherent in the system.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you, Jelun, about the benefits of socialized medicine--but as far as most Americans go it's a hard sell.
> 
> I often wonder if the ultra-conservatives realize how bad all the flap about the ACA is making our country look in the eyes of the world. When our son fell ill in Serbia my husband and I were preparing to take him to Belgrade to hunt for a private doctor to treat him--and my in-laws were stunned. They simply couldn't believe that we didn't view the local clinic as an option for us--foreigners or no. No doctor would turn away a sick child, they insisted...and happily they were correct.
> 
> The whole incident marked a major shift in my perceptions, and theirs as well I believe. Until that day they'd viewed America as the Promised Land, but this really served as an eye-opener to the basic inequalities inherent in the system.


I don't think the conservatives - ultra or just plain - care how we look to the rest of the world, as long as we look tough. They certainly didn't care after Newtown, when people were screaming for better gun controls. If they can't be moved by murdered babies, why should sick ones have any effect on them?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think the conservatives - ultra or just plain - care how we look to the rest of the world, as long as we look tough. They certainly didn't care after Newtown, when people were screaming for better gun controls. If they can't be moved by murdered babies, why should sick ones have any effect on them?


I'm afraid you're right, Jelun. It wasn't always that way, of course--Americans used to be seen as friendly and big-hearted, but my! how things have changed. What with the mass shootings, the gridlock in Washington, and the health care battle, we must come off like a nation that's absolutely taken leave of its senses.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, first they see it's been posted by Lukelucy, who never seems to have an original thought of her own, then they see it's the WSJ - BIASED........ then they see it's written by John H. Cochrane - BIASED.
So I would say that's about as far as anyone gets when reading her posts. And I only go that far so she doesn't think we're sitting her quietly accepting it as truth. So I'd say nobody reads them. They just take up a whole lot of page for nothing.


MaidInBedlam said:


> I wonder how many people scroll through your WSJ puff pieces.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, first they see it's been posted by Lukelucy, who never seems to have an original thought of her own, then they see it's the WSJ - BIASED........ then they see it's written by John H. Cochrane - BIASED.
> So I would say that's about as far as anyone gets when reading her posts. And I only go that far so she doesn't think we're sitting her quietly accepting it as truth. So I'd say nobody reads them. They just take up a whole lot of page for nothing.


Most of the time, that probably is what happens. But Alcameron actually read it and asked some pertinent questions. What do you want to bet nobody reads her post?

That's why I'm asking people who "quote reply" to cut those posts off at the knees. It's annoying to have to scroll down those long screeds.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good suggestion.



Poor Purl said:


> May I suggest that when you hit "quote reply," you delete most of the puff piece? We keep repeating those fake articles, when all we need is a quote from LL about how important this is, the headline, and maybe a first paragraph. Then we wouldn't even need to scroll. They are not worth the bandwidth we give them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, first they see it's been posted by Lukelucy, who never seems to have an original thought of her own, then they see it's the WSJ - BIASED........ then they see it's written by John H. Cochrane - BIASED.
> So I would say that's about as far as anyone gets when reading her posts. And I only go that far so she doesn't think we're sitting her quietly accepting it as truth. So I'd say nobody reads them. They just take up a whole lot of page for nothing.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think the conservatives - ultra or just plain - care how we look to the rest of the world, as long as we look tough. They certainly didn't care after Newtown, when people were screaming for better gun controls. If they can't be moved by murdered babies, why should sick ones have any effect on them?


Ahhhhh, but those unborn ones -- those are the ones who really get to them. After that -- pfffffffft.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, first they see it's been posted by Lukelucy, who never seems to have an original thought of her own, then they see it's the WSJ - BIASED........ then they see it's written by John H. Cochrane - BIASED.
> So I would say that's about as far as anyone gets when reading her posts. And I only go that far so she doesn't think we're sitting her quietly accepting it as truth. So I'd say nobody reads them. They just take up a whole lot of page for nothing.


I'll just say again that for me, it's not so much an issue of bias. For rightwing "journalism" and op-ed, it's a question of not being able to trust the underlying "facts" as accurate and truthful. I think I can winnow out biased analysis and conclusions that are inappropriate or flat out wrong-headed, but not if I can't rely on the stated premises and facts to be honest and trustworthy, true and factual.

And I'd invite anyone on the left to correct me if MY assessment is incorrect that even with the most biased leftwing pieces, you won't find the underpinnings of the piece are lies and deceits.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

The people in the U.S. seemed to be happier when we all had a common cause, like during the Stock-market crash of 1929, the dirty 30's, and just after WWII. And you know why that was? Because we were all in the same boat. There weren't the (RICH) and the (POOR). Everyone knew what it was to struggle to live. EVERYONE had to work hard, or you didn't survive. Even the rich had to use ration stamps. People were kinder. Isn't it a shame that something bad has to happen to make people realize what's really important? 
And now days all you hear is.....Obama lied, Obama lied, Obama lied. Everything bad is all Obama's fault........Really??? Is that the worst thing you can come up with? SOME PEOPLE, and they know who they are, should get down on their hands and knees and be grateful that they have what they have. But then again......they might be better people if they had no more than the poor they complain so much about....It's been proven the rich will steal the whites from your eyes, and the poor will give you their last dime. So, being rich now days is nothing to be proud of.....they're IMO, thought of as blood suckers, as it is because of the rich....the rest of us have to pay more taxes. The rich are taking their money overseas so they don't have to pay taxes on it, and using all those tax loop holes that Bush gave them. And of course the government has to replace that money somehow, so who do they get it from? The middle class, which is almost nonexistent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/ending-bush-tax-cuts-for-rich-would-save-just-28-billion-in-2013-analysts-say/2012/07/19/gJQAW0m0vW_story.html



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm afraid you're right, Jelun. It wasn't always that way, of course--Americans used to be seen as friendly and big-hearted, but my! how things have changed. What with the mass shootings, the gridlock in Washington, and the health care battle, we must come off like a nation that's absolutely taken leave of its senses.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Ahhhhh, but those unborn ones -- those are the ones who really get to them. After that -- pfffffffft.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Ahhhhh, but those unborn ones -- those are the ones who really get to them. After that -- pfffffffft.


They sure as he** don't want to pay for the programs that those babies need for survival, WIC, food stamps, Medicaid, Headstart, etc.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> The people in the U.S. seemed to be happier when we all had a common cause, like during the Stock-market crash of 1929, the dirty 30's, and just after WWII. And you know why that was? Because we were all in the same boat. There weren't the (RICH) and the (POOR). Everyone knew what it was to struggle to live. EVERYONE had to work hard, or you didn't survive. Even the rich had to use ration stamps. People were kinder. Isn't it a shame that something bad has to happen to make people realize what's really important?
> And now days all you hear is.....Obama lied, Obama lied, Obama lied. Everything bad is all Obama's fault........Really??? Is that the worst thing you can come up with? SOME PEOPLE, and they know who they are, should get down on their hands and knees and be grateful that they have what they have. But then again......they might be better people if they had no more than the poor they complain so much about....It's been proven the rich will steal the whites from your eyes, and the poor will give you their last dime. So, being rich now days is nothing to be proud of.....they're IMO, thought of as blood suckers, as it is because of the rich....the rest of us have to pay more taxes. The rich are taking their money overseas so they don't have to pay taxes on it, and using all those tax loop holes that Bush gave them. And of course the government has to replace that money somehow, so who do they get it from? The middle class, which is almost nonexistent.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/ending-bush-tax-cuts-for-rich-would-save-just-28-billion-in-2013-analysts-say/2012/07/19/gJQAW0m0vW_story.html


Your post sent me to look up the quote "God must love the poor. Why else would he have made so many of them?" (Abraham Lincoln), and what I found was an essay written in 2003 that is worth reading. http://www.anotherthink.com/contents/essays_on_faith/20031018_blessed_are_the_poor.html

The rich have always been with us, but they haven't always been as uncaring and entitled as they are now. The crazy thing is that most have made money from having money, not contributing anything worthwhile to society. Yet they see themselves as such geniuses that the rules don't apply to them, or they see themselves as God's Elect. Either way, they are the problem


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Your dinner does sound delicious. Over the years, I've found that the "quickie" paleo diet where I stay away from sugar, grains. too much sugar from eating fruit and certain cooked vegies as much as possible works best for me. No bread for me, except for the occasional treat. I also believe that humans should never consume fresh milk. What babies need cow's milk when they can get the far superior human breast milk instead? I only eat cultured milk products, (and am a cheeseaholic which is a real challenge to give up) and this feels better than drinking fresh milk. The catch, as you already know, is that I have to read the labels on EVERY bit of food I buy. This means shopping at a couple more stores if I care what I'm buying, and spending more to buy foods that have as few additives as possible. I can't understand why it should cost more for foods that have fewer ingredients. The best reason I can think of is to keep us buying the cheaper, additive rich foods.

Corn in its many versions seems to be an ingredient in almost everything. No wonder you had to be Sherlock Holmes to find an organic cornstarch. Sugar and salt are additives used to bulk up all kinds of foods because they are dirt cheap, hence the sodium in your gummi vitamin.

Then there's the fact that humans have enjoyed sweetness and saltiness for thousands of years, and for thousands of years it took a lot of work to find sweet substances, and without refrigeration, salt was used as a preservative. I believe that, besides using these things to bulk up foods, the food producers and manufacturers are doing everything they can to give us what we have wanted, historically, and are giving us an overdose of those foods. The catch is when we used to have to work really hard to get sweet foods and salt, so we ate a lot less of those foods than we do now.

I actually love to cook, and to shop for wonderful things to cook. Oh dear, you've gotten me up on one of my soap boxes and I blithering.ops:      

May the additive-free food revolution win, as soon as possible.:!: :thumbup: :!: :thumbup: :!: :thumbup: :!:

I wish I had a place to grow my own fruits and vegies. Maybe some magician will turn up and grant my wish, now, if not sooner.:-D :-D :-D 


Knitry said:


> Ah, yes, Monsanto. Another evildoer I spend too much of my precious time tracking. And too much of my precious money avoiding (buying organic instead). I will NOT eat any non-organic corn of any kind if I can avoid doing so -- and that includes things which have corn products in them (corn solids, etc.) Went a long way out of my way for organic cornstarch not long ago and spent a small fortune on a very small 8 oz. box. But at least I can use it with confidence. We pop our own organic popcorn the old fashioned way -- and it's delicious.
> 
> Same with potatoes. We buy organic potatoes for eating and only "non-GMO" potato chips.
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> May I suggest that when you hit "quote reply," you delete most of the puff piece? We keep repeating those fake articles, when all we need is a quote from LL about how important this is, the headline, and maybe a first paragraph. Then we wouldn't even need to scroll. They are not worth the bandwidth we give them.


Sorry about that. I'll do better next time.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sorry about that. I'll do better next time.


I'm not singling you out. Everybody does it. I just got annoyed at having to scroll past one of those 12-page posts only to find I was at the bottom of the page and had to move on to the next.

We can all quote each other's posts, but let LL's pals be the one to quote hers. Or Momeee's.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'll just say again that for me, it's not so much an issue of bias. For rightwing "journalism" and op-ed, it's a question of not being able to trust the underlying "facts" as accurate and truthful. I think I can winnow out biased analysis and conclusions that are inappropriate or flat out wrong-headed, but not if I can't rely on the stated premises and facts to be honest and trustworthy, true and factual.
> 
> And I'd invite anyone on the left to correct me if MY assessment is incorrect that even with the most biased leftwing pieces, you won't find the underpinnings of the piece are lies and deceits.


You're right. Sometimes it seems as though they just make things up. No, it doesn't just seems that way; I'm sure it's correct.

Murdoch has said Fox never takes back anything just because it was shown to be untrue. And there was that phony who made the videos that killed ACORN and lost Shirley Sherrod her job. They have no notion of truth.

I've never seen anything like that from the left.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The rich have always been with us, but they haven't always been as uncaring and entitled as they are now. The crazy thing is that most have made money from having money, not contributing anything worthwhile to society. Yet they see themselves as such geniuses that the rules don't apply to them, or they see themselves as God's Elect. Either way, they are the problem


This reminds me of when I watched "the blind side" this summer with my son. Of course, being the person I am, I would point out the decisions they made that changed that guys life.

My son's reaction? "So not all rich people are selfish?"

I was rocked by that. My son in his 11years had learn that rich people were selfish (and not all from me, I usually only point out the good things people do). I wanted to cry. Then I actually had to THINK to find other examples of rich people being truly unselfish. The sad things is that there are far fewer today that would actually invite someone into their house, or work in a soup kitchen (without a magazine photo op), those who actually make a personal sacrifice to help others.

Since then I having been making a note each time a rich person does something unselfishly, or to help others. I don't want my kids to grow up in a world were they see rich people as selfish, because the only ones they see are.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> This reminds me of when I watched "the blind side" this summer with my son. Of course, being the person I am, I would point out the decisions they made that changed that guys life.
> 
> My son's reaction? "So not all rich people are selfish?"
> 
> ...


I think that it is also extremely important to emphasize the many incidents locally and globally of people who don't have much but give or do. 
There are way too many messages about the poor being lazy, takers, moochers, and shiftless.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> They sure as he** don't want to pay for the programs that those babies need for survival, WIC, food stamps, Medicaid, Headstart, etc.


Eggsackly.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Your post sent me to look up the quote "God must love the poor. Why else would he have made so many of them?" (Abraham Lincoln), and what I found was an essay written in 2003 that is worth reading. http://www.anotherthink.com/contents/essays_on_faith/20031018_blessed_are_the_poor.html
> 
> The rich have always been with us, but they haven't always been as uncaring and entitled as they are now. The crazy thing is that most have made money from having money, not contributing anything worthwhile to society. Yet they see themselves as such geniuses that the rules don't apply to them, or they see themselves as God's Elect. Either way, they are the problem


They not only see themselves as "geniuses," they see themselves as the ones who are singularly productive, the ones who are singularly producing jobs, the ones who thus singularly DESERVE all that money while those who actually do the work deserve less and less... and less... or nothing (e.g., let's put them in prisons!!)

BTW - does everyone here know that our privatized prison system companies have contracts with the states that guarantee them a 90% or maybe even more occupancy rate????



> _ "Occupancy guarantee clauses in private prison contracts range between 80% and 100%, with 90% as the most frequent occupancy guarantee requirement."
> 
>  "Arizona, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Virginia are locked in contracts with the highest occupancy guarantee requirements, with all quotas requiring between 95% and 100% occupancy."
> 
> ...


Ahh, unfettered capitalism, ain't it grand?

Some day I really ought to sit down and read Marx. The things I've seen quoted by him over the years have always struck me as brilliant deconstructions of what was going on with capitalism, spelling it out to the letter, like magic. Or more like removing the curtain to reveal the Wizard of Oz as just an ugly little man who fooled us all.

I found the article at your link depressing as all get out.



> * If we who have benefited so richly from Gods mercy fail to lift up those who have stumbled and fallen and lost hope, what will God say to us? *


Frankly, I don't think She'll talk to us at all in that case.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> This reminds me of when I watched "the blind side" this summer with my son. Of course, being the person I am, I would point out the decisions they made that changed that guys life.
> 
> My son's reaction? "So not all rich people are selfish?"
> 
> ...


What an interesting story. When I was 11 it would never have occurred to me that rich people were that different from the rest of us. (I was not yet familiar with F. Scott Fitzgerald.) While we were living in public housing, a few of my friends' parents could afford to buy houses - to me, an upholsterer who owned his own business was rich, and they were very nice to me, and very generous. FDR was a great example, as was Lyndon Johnson (not rich by Roosevelt standards but with enough resources to make it surprising that he would begin the War on Poverty).

It's so different now. I wonder whether most 11-year-olds think the same way about rich people. I don't know whether you should keep trying to change his mind or forget it and realize that's how they're going to be.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. Sometimes it seems as though they just make things up. No, it doesn't just seems that way; I'm sure it's correct.
> 
> Murdoch has said Fox never takes back anything just because it was shown to be untrue. And there was that phony who made the videos that killed ACORN and lost Shirley Sherrod her job. They have no notion of truth.
> 
> I've never seen anything like that from the left.


Yes, it is correct. I'm telling you -- and you've seen evidence of it right here -- that they not only can't distinguish a lie from the truth, either is just as good to them, depending on how well it serves their purpose otherwise.

As for Murdoch, do you remember the two reporters who sued a Fox network station because they were ill-treated because they actually wanted to tell the truth about milk in a news story they'd spend a lot of time and energy investigating? They may have been fired, or just quit and sued -- whatever. The issue was whether news organiztions had the right to lie or not (as the Fox affiliate claimed). The reporters lost: Yes, a news organization has the right to lie. This was in Floriduh I believe.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that it is also extremely important to emphasize the many incidents locally and globally of people who don't have much but give or do.
> There are way too many messages about the poor being lazy, takers, moochers, and shiftless.


...when in fact it's the children of inherited wealth or Walmart wealth who are lazy, takers, moochers, and shiftless.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> They not only see themselves as "geniuses," they see themselves as the ones who are singularly productive, the ones who are singularly producing jobs, the ones who thus singularly DESERVE all that money while those who actually do the work deserve less and less... and less... or nothing (e.g., let's put them in prisons!!)
> 
> BTW - does everyone here know that our privatized prison system companies have contracts with the states that guarantee them a 90% or maybe even more occupancy rate????


There are some categories of human misery that should never be profit-making. Health insurance is one; prisons are another. I'd like to add weapons-manufacture to the list, but it's too far gone by now.



>  "Occupancy guarantee clauses in private prison contracts range between 80% and 100%, with 90% as the most frequent occupancy guarantee requirement."
> 
>  "Arizona, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Virginia are locked in contracts with the highest occupancy guarantee requirements, with all quotas requiring between 95% and 100% occupancy."
> 
> ...


 Ya got me with that ending, even though I should have expected it. I have to go now; I would have loved going on and on about this, but can't. Sorry.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not singling you out. Everybody does it. I just got annoyed at having to scroll past one of those 12-page posts only to find I was at the bottom of the page and had to move on to the next.
> 
> We can all quote each other's posts, but let LL's pals be the one to quote hers. Or Momeee's.


I didn't mind you using the long quote I made out of LL's WSJ piece. I've said the same thing you've said so many times I've lost count. I think we're all capable of saying something like "LL, in your post about the imitation peach fuzz shortage, here's my opinion:" I think most everyone's very long posts can be summarized by anyone who wants to reply to them and save us all the (dubious) pleasure of scrolling so long we forget what we wanted to say in reply.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Yes, it is correct. I'm telling you -- and you've seen evidence of it right here -- that they not only can't distinguish a lie from the truth, either is just as good to them, depending on how well it serves their purpose otherwise.
> 
> As for Murdoch, do you remember the two reporters who sued a Fox network station because they were ill-treated because they actually wanted to tell the truth about milk in a news story they'd spend a lot of time and energy investigating? They may have been fired, or just quit and sued -- whatever. The issue was whether news organiztions had the right to lie or not (as the Fox affiliate claimed). The reporters lost: Yes, a news organization has the right to lie. This was in Floriduh I believe.


This is an older, more than a decade, still relevent, I believe. 
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?
storyId=1144937
And then this. The e-book is 99 cents on Amazon.
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/12/27/harris-lying-book


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Your dinner does sound delicious. Over the years, I've found that the "quickie" paleo diet where I stay away from sugar, grains. too much sugar from eating fruit and certain cooked vegies as much as possible works best for me. No bread for me, except for the occasional treat. I also believe that humans should never consume fresh milk. What babies need cow's milk when they can get the far superior human breast milk instead? I only eat cultured milk products, (and am a cheeseaholic which is a real challenge to give up) and this feels better than drinking fresh milk. The catch, as you already know, is that I have to read the labels on EVERY bit of food I buy. This means shopping at a couple more stores if I care what I'm buying, and spending more to buy foods that have as few additives as possible. I can't understand why it should cost more for foods that have fewer ingredients. The best reason I can think of is to keep us buying the cheaper, additive rich foods.
> 
> Corn in its many versions seems to be an ingredient in almost everything. No wonder you had to be Sherlock Holmes to find an organic cornstarch. Sugar and salt are additives used to bulk up all kinds of foods because they are dirt cheap, hence the sodium in your gummi vitamin.
> 
> ...


Have you read anything lately about the sodium levels in pharmaceuticals causing heart problems or maybe exacerbating them?
I caught a snippet the other day and didn't have a chance to look it up so now, naturally, I cannot recall enough to find pertinent info. 
Preservatives? I am not sure of the reason. I do know that as I down my diuretic it seems odd that it tastes salty.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think education should never be for profit.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Have you read anything lately about the sodium levels in pharmaceuticals causing heart problems or maybe exacerbating them?
> I caught a snippet the other day and didn't have a chance to look it up so now, naturally, I cannot recall enough to find pertinent info.
> Preservatives? I am not sure of the reason. I do know that as I down my diuretic it seems odd that it tastes salty.


I don't know anything about the sodium levels in pharmaceuticals except that a lot of them have fillers of many kinds. I think of that as a way to make pills and capsules big enough to impress people because the content that's just the actual medication would make a pill about the size of the head of a pin.

Preservative come in many forms and are found in all sorts of things. Think of all the items, especially the heavily processed ones, at the grocery store that have long, long lists of the ingredients, some of which are preservatives used to increase shelf life. There are others that make the products look nice. Then there are the products that have added vitamins because they were processed out of the product's ingredients. Bread labels are a good example if you can stand to read them.

I shop the perimeter of grocery stores where most of the meats, fruit,vegetable,etc are found. I also assume that nothing is free of additives of some kind or another and the trick is to find the ones that have been tampered with the least. My other assumption is that at age 64 I've probably consumed enough additives to the food I've eaten that a few more won't make any difference. Either I'll get some disease caused by all those additives and preservatives or my corpse will take a really long time to decay. Since I plan to be cremated, no one will be able to measure the decay rate of my body. I look at all the sun blocking lotions I could use, and the remember how many years I spent out in the sun before all those thing were invented.

As I think I already said, I'd like to have a place where I could grow my own most of my own food. I'm pessimistic enough to believe that there will still be additives in home grown food that come along with the seeds, saplings and even fertilizer.

Most organic food are too expensive for my food budget, but I try to buy what's organic as often as possible. My local farmers market is pretty good in that way. My guiding principle assumption is that obtaining food is a long-standing war and every trip to go buy food is another battle in that war. The sellers want to get as much of my money for the least amount of food I get to leave the store with, and I want exactly the opposite.

Sorry for this long post, but this is bne of many subjects that automatically gets me up on my soap box to declaim (or rant and rave) at length...  ;-) :roll: At least the FDA has decides to ban the use of antibiotics in animals we eat , except in the case of illness. This is probably a meaningless gesture, but maybe not. If I were to have a headstone it would probably say "Here lies a picky, pucky, picky pessimist".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think education should never be for profit.


You know, I agree. Our current system of non-profits is a misnomer, though. 
We need to come up with a system that is truly non-profit and not just called that in order to gain tax free status. We need no frills centers where people go to access learning for free or nearly free without sports and celebrity professors.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo! Much more meaningful than 'non-profit.'



jelun2 said:


> You know, I agree. Our current system of non-profits is a misnomer, though.
> We need to come up with a system that is truly non-profit and not just called that in order to gain tax free status. We need no frills centers where people go to access learning for free or nearly free without sports and celebrity professors.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Bravo! Much more meaningful than 'non-profit.'


The NFL is "non-profit". Sheesh.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, it is correct. I'm telling you -- and you've seen evidence of it right here -- that they not only can't distinguish a lie from the truth, either is just as good to them, depending on how well it serves their purpose otherwise.
> 
> As for Murdoch, do you remember the two reporters who sued a Fox network station because they were ill-treated because they actually wanted to tell the truth about milk in a news story they'd spend a lot of time and energy investigating? They may have been fired, or just quit and sued -- whatever. The issue was whether news organiztions had the right to lie or not (as the Fox affiliate claimed). The reporters lost: Yes, a news organization has the right to lie. This was in Floriduh I believe.


I first wrote a long fumfering answer using what I recalled, but it took little time to find an article about this:



> *Appellate Court Rules Media Can Legally Lie.*
> By Mike Gaddy. Published Feb. 28, 2003
> On February 14, a Florida Appeals court ruled there is absolutely nothing illegal about lying, concealing or distorting information by a major press organization. The court reversed the $425,000 jury verdict in favor of journalist Jane Akre who charged she was pressured by Fox Television management and lawyers to air what she knew and documented to be false information. The ruling basically declares it is technically not against any law, rule, or regulation to deliberately lie or distort the news on a television broadcast.
> 
> ...


Fox carries it a little too far, by almost never telling the truth.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't know anything about the sodium levels in pharmaceuticals except that a lot of them have fillers of many kinds. I think of that as a way to make pills and capsules big enough to impress people because the content that's just the actual medication would make a pill about the size of the head of a pin.


Actually not all pills are big. There are many, many who are the size of the head of a pin. Usually the stronger a medication is the smaller it is (generally, of course there are exceptions). Pills do need preservatives because many medications break down rather fast, and if there were no preservatives them hospitals couldnt keep medications in stock, or pharmacies. It could be tragic if someone came in for an infection and they needed to order a "fresh" medication only for it not to be delivered in time. I don't agree with a lot of additives, although I also fall into the same group as you, not enough money to buy organic, but in medication some preservatives are needed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is an older, more than a decade, still relevent, I believe.
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?
> storyId=1144937
> And then this. The e-book is 99 cents on Amazon.
> http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/12/27/harris-lying-book


Thanks for the links, though it took some fiddling to get the first one to work.

Lying is so easy to do, and the habit is so hard to break.

Besides, the liar doesn't realize what he's doing to himself (not having read Sam Harris); it gives him a leg up over truth-tellers and probably makes him think he's smarter.

The people who know Fox lies and still treat them as a resource have a real problem.

I come from a family in which polite lying was encouraged, not just accepted. My sister, seeing a card my son sent from camp saying he couldn't stand it there, said "I hate when they're unhappy and they let you know." I guess they didn't let her know. Her daughter became bulimic while in high school and is not quite over it now, in her 40s. Her son, who's been unhappy most of his life, is currently in prison.

Sorry for all this rambling. I forgot the point of what I wanted to say.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think education should never be for profit.


Absolutely.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You know, I agree. Our current system of non-profits is a misnomer, though.
> We need to come up with a system that is truly non-profit and not just called that in order to gain tax free status. We need no frills centers where people go to access learning for free or nearly free without sports and celebrity professors.


That would be nice. In fact, we used to have that here in NYC, as did California in UC. When I was at Brooklyn College in the sixties, tuition each semester was $34, mainly a student-activity fee. I don't know what it is now, but it must be a few thousand dollars. Brooklyn College students then went to Yale or Harvard or Columbia or Berkeley for grad school.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I wrote you a nice long post in response to yours, and then managed to delete it. The gist if the matter is that I agree with you about medications and think it might be a good idea to limit the discussion of additives ad preservatives to what's in our food.


Lkholcomb said:


> Actually not all pills are big. There are many, many who are the size of the head of a pin. Usually the stronger a medication is the smaller it is (generally, of course there are exceptions). Pills do need preservatives because many medications break down rather fast, and if there were no preservatives them hospitals couldnt keep medications in stock, or pharmacies. It could be tragic if someone came in for an infection and they needed to order a "fresh" medication only for it not to be delivered in time. I don't agree with a lot of additives, although I also fall into the same group as you, not enough money to buy organic, but in medication some preservatives are needed.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That would be nice. In fact, we used to have that here in NYC, as did California in UC. When I was at Brooklyn College in the sixties, tuition each semester was $34, mainly a student-activity fee. I don't know what it is now, but it must be a few thousand dollars. Brooklyn College students then went to Yale or Harvard or Columbia or Berkeley for grad school.


http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/web/about/offices/bursar/tuition/undergraduate.php

When I went to Salem State College the tuition was $400. currently it is under $4500. I guess that really isn't so bad almost 45 years later.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/web/about/offices/bursar/tuition/undergraduate.php
> 
> When I went to Salem State College the tuition was $400. currently it is under $4500. I guess that really isn't so bad almost 45 years later.


At Brooklyn, the student activity fee is now $112.65, not a big advance over the $34 of the sixties, but there's an additional $125 "technology" fee.

And I misspoke; the city colleges were tuition-free during the time I was there and were very selective. The $45 was purely a student activity fee.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> At Brooklyn, the student activity fee is now $112.65, not a big advance over the $34 of the sixties, but there's an additional $125 "technology" fee.
> 
> And I misspoke; the city colleges were tuition-free during the time I was there and were very selective. The $45 was purely a student activity fee.


And, of course, the tuition. 
It is a different age, I guess.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Fox carries it a little too far, by almost never telling the truth.


Sigh. And even that is an understatement.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Sigh. And even that is an understatement.


Okay, remove the "almost."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

All journalists should be protesting and bringing this verdict to light. Shameful! Much worse than no prayer is schools etc.



Poor Purl said:


> Fox carries it a little too far, by almost never telling the truth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You expressed the truth of the matter, and its consequences quite well.



Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for the links, though it took some fiddling to get the first one to work.
> 
> Lying is so easy to do, and the habit is so hard to break.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Our entire country profits, in the most important ways, from education for all. IMHO


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Those were the days, my friend. I wish they'd never end.



Poor Purl said:


> That would be nice. In fact, we used to have that here in NYC, as did California in UC. When I was at Brooklyn College in the sixties, tuition each semester was $34, mainly a student-activity fee. I don't know what it is now, but it must be a few thousand dollars. Brooklyn College students then went to Yale or Harvard or Columbia or Berkeley for grad school.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the practical approach now is for students to amass credits for several years at community colleges and transfer for graduation when they've found their niche and learned to study. They only look where you've graduated for your degree. Saves money and time.



jelun2 said:


> http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/web/about/offices/bursar/tuition/undergraduate.php
> 
> When I went to Salem State College the tuition was $400. currently it is under $4500. I guess that really isn't so bad almost 45 years later.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> All journalists should be protesting and bringing this verdict to light. Shameful! Much worse than no prayer is schools etc.


It happened in 2003. If they didn't see fit to protest it in the past ten years, they're surely not interested now.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

What's actually done is the students are more and more getting their general education requirements out of the way at community colleges (or junior colleges as they were called in my time  ). You have to make sure that the credits for the classes taken are transferable (not all courses are equal). Doing this for the two years it takes saves a lot of money. I did the same 40 years ago, so it is not a new idea.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Our entire country profits, in the most important ways, from education for all. IMHO


The amount of that profit has even been determined, but the majority of the House doesn't care.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It happened in 2003. If they didn't see fit to protest it in the past ten years, they're surely not interested now.


And Chuck Todd from NBC says that calling pols on their lies isn't his job?

http://twitchy.com/2013/09/19/this-happened-chuck-todd-attacked-as-a-republican-tool-for-not-selling-obamacare-enough/

He makes a small valid point. Is not doing the WH's job the same as not calling the conservatives on their lies?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I'll just say again that for me, it's not so much an issue of bias. For rightwing "journalism" and op-ed, it's a question of not being able to trust the underlying "facts" as accurate and truthful. I think I can winnow out biased analysis and conclusions that are inappropriate or flat out wrong-headed, but not if I can't rely on the stated premises and facts to be honest and trustworthy, true and factual.
> 
> And I'd invite anyone on the left to correct me if MY assessment is incorrect that even with the most biased leftwing pieces, you won't find the underpinnings of the piece are lies and deceits.


I don't see how you can think left-wing opinion pieces are based on truth more than those of the right. We're talking about a game both sides play by the same rules. You might like what the left says better than what the right says, but that has nothing to do with underlying truth. Journalists are whores, and just because they have different pimps doesn't mean they're selling anything different.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't see how you can think left-wing opinion pieces are based on truth more than those of the right. We're talking about a game both sides play by the same rules. You might like what the left says better than what the right says, but that has nothing to do with underlying truth. Journalists are whores, and just because they have different pimps doesn't mean they're selling anything different.


I think there is an intrinsic difference. For example, the right wing started by vowing to stop President Obama in any way possible. They kept the government in gridlock and ultimate shutdown. The real difference is in how they did it. They flooded the media and the Internet with lies and rumors leaving the WH to ignore or answer the fabrications.

The left wing did not fabricate lies about the right.

Opinions please. Thank you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> And Chuck Todd from NBC says that calling pols on their lies isn't his job?
> 
> http://twitchy.com/2013/09/19/this-happened-chuck-todd-attacked-as-a-republican-tool-for-not-selling-obamacare-enough/
> 
> He makes a small valid point. Is not doing the WH's job the same as not calling the conservatives on their lies?


I don't think they're the same. You can point out falsehoods without supporting the plan. The WH should have pushed their plan better by correcting the GOP's misinformation; that would _not_ have been the media's job. But look at Todd's situation in the context of sports. If he heard someone announcing the wrong winning team or the wrong score in a football game, _his_ job would be to make the correction no matter which team he liked better.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> What's actually done is the students are more and more getting their general education requirements out of the way at community colleges (or junior colleges as they were called in my time  ). You have to make sure that the credits for the classes taken are transferable (not all courses are equal). Doing this for the two years it takes saves a lot of money. I did the same 40 years ago, so it is not a new idea.


My parents told me that they would pay for my college education when I graduated from high school. Cool! The caveats were that I had to earn a degree in something that made me someone worth hiring upon graduation and would earn a decent salary and that I didn't get married. I had to do my homework if I wanted that degree. That was over 40 years ago. How many parents require their little kiddies to get a degree in something that actually earns them a degree in a currently marketable skill?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't see how you can think left-wing opinion pieces are based on truth more than those of the right. We're talking about a game both sides play by the same rules. You might like what the left says better than what the right says, but that has nothing to do with underlying truth. Journalists are whores, and just because they have different pimps doesn't mean they're selling anything different.


There's a reason journalism is the only profession protected by the U.S. Constitution. It's very cynical to dismiss all journalists as whores, and it's possible to determine whether an opinion piece is based on true information or false falsity. I think the left has been more truthful than the right, not because I agree with them but because the only lies they've been accused of have turned out *not* to be lies after all. Look at reports on Benghazi, for instance.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think they're the same. You can point out falsehoods without supporting the plan. The WH should have pushed their plan better by correcting the GOP's misinformation; that would _not_ have been the media's job. But look at Todd's situation in the context of sports. If he heard someone announcing the wrong winning team or the wrong score in a football game, _his_ job would be to make the correction no matter which team he liked better.


That is a superb analogy.

The White House has been absolutely terrible about explaining, educating and selling Obamacare. And infuriatingly enough, all that has been well pointed out to them and they've done very little that I can see to correct the error of their ways. So in that sense Todd was right (from that video clip).

BUT, he has absolutely shown himself to be toooooo darned eager and willing to simply repeat Republican lies, which are abundant (are their lips moving?) on ANY subject including Obamacare. As a result I dislike him only slightly less than David Gregory.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a reason journalism is the only profession protected by the U.S. Constitution. It's very cynical to dismiss all journalists as whores, and it's possible to determine whether an opinion piece is based on true information or false falsity. I think the left has been more truthful than the right, not because I agree with them but because the only lies they've been accused of have turned out *not* to be lies after all. Look at reports on Benghazi, for instance.


Speaking of Benghazi, has everyone seen the latest? Get the scoop here, 'cause my guess is you won't see much about it on Fox News.



> *NY Times Benghazi Bombshell: Attack spurred by anti-Islam Video *
> Benghazi Truthers dealt a blow by months long investigation by NY Times as actual journalism rears its head.
> Months of investigation by The New York Times, centered on extensive interviews with Libyans in Benghazi who had direct knowledge of the attack there and its context, turned up no evidence that Al Qaeda or other international terrorist groups had any role in the assault. The attack was led, instead, by fighters who had benefited directly from NATOs extensive air power and logistics support during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi. And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam.
> MORE:
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your parents were very wise.



thumper5316 said:


> My parents told me that they would pay for my college education when I graduated from high school. Cool! The caveats were that I had to earn a degree in something that made me someone worth hiring upon graduation and would earn a decent salary and that I didn't get married. I had to do my homework if I wanted that degree. That was over 40 years ago. How many parents require their little kiddies to get a degree in something that actually earns them a degree in a currently marketable skill?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe the left wing hasn't fabricated any lies about the right TODAY, maybe they even use different tactics than the right. I still don't think the left is in any way more honest or moral than the right. They're all politicians. As far as I'm concerned that says it all. Forgive my cynicism, it isn't going to go away any time soon. President Obama is one of the very, very, very few politicians I can think of who is a decent human being and takes his decency to work with him every day. Unfortunately, the Congress he has to deal with is a den of scoundrels, as it has always been.


damemary said:


> I think there is an intrinsic difference. For example, the right wing started by vowing to stop President Obama in any way possible. They kept the government in gridlock and ultimate shutdown. The real difference is in how they did it. They flooded the media and the Internet with lies and rumors leaving the WH to ignore or answer the fabrications.
> 
> The left wing did not fabricate lies about the right.
> 
> Opinions please. Thank you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

MaidInBedlam, I have to say that I completely agree with you. There seems to be very little true honesty in politics, and a many other organizations anymore. You have to form an opinion on the individual, and not necessarily on the group as a whole. 
I wish I knew how to change all the deceit we now live with. IMHO, The bad seems to outweigh the good by a wide margin.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe the left wing hasn't fabricated any lies about the right TODAY, maybe they even use different tactics than the right. I still don't think the left is in any way more honest or moral than the right. They're all politicians. As far as I'm concerned that says it all. Forgive my cynicism, it isn't going to go away any time soon. President Obama is one of the very, very, very few politicians I can think of who is a decent human being and takes his decency to work with him every day. Unfortunately, the Congress he has to deal with is a den of scoundrels, as it has always been.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry, but I doubt I will become less cynical between now and the day I die. My cynicism even extends to thinking that it isn't "possible to determine whether an opinion piece is based on true information or false falsity". Yes, I understand there are reasons why the First Amendment to the Constitution "...prohibits the making of any law...infringing on the freedom of the press...", and I wouldn't have it any other way.


Poor Purl said:


> There's a reason journalism is the only profession protected by the U.S. Constitution. It's very cynical to dismiss all journalists as whores, and it's possible to determine whether an opinion piece is based on true information or false falsity. I think the left has been more truthful than the right, not because I agree with them but because the only lies they've been accused of have turned out *not* to be lies after all. Look at reports on Benghazi, for instance.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sorry, but I doubt I will become less cynical between now and the day I die. My cynicism even extends to thinking that it isn't "possible to determine whether an opinion piece is based on true information or false falsity". Yes, I understand there are reasons why the First Amendment to the Constitution "...prohibits the making of any law...infringing on the freedom of the press...", and I wouldn't have it any other way.


And I wouldn't have _you_ any other way. You are always true to what you believe.

I may disagree with you about many things, including President Obama, who I believe has been less than honest, but that shouldn't come between us.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't necessarily disagree all the time.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe the left wing hasn't fabricated any lies about the right TODAY, maybe they even use different tactics than the right. I still don't think the left is in any way more honest or moral than the right. They're all politicians. As far as I'm concerned that says it all. Forgive my cynicism, it isn't going to go away any time soon. President Obama is one of the very, very, very few politicians I can think of who is a decent human being and takes his decency to work with him every day. Unfortunately, the Congress he has to deal with is a den of scoundrels, as it has always been.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think there is an intrinsic difference. For example, the right wing started by vowing to stop President Obama in any way possible. They kept the government in gridlock and ultimate shutdown. The real difference is in how they did it. They flooded the media and the Internet with lies and rumors leaving the WH to ignore or answer the fabrications.
> 
> The left wing did not fabricate lies about the right.
> 
> Opinions please. Thank you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

I agree with you completely Dame Mary --


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think there is an intrinsic difference. For example, the right wing started by vowing to stop President Obama in any way possible. They kept the government in gridlock and ultimate shutdown. The real difference is in how they did it. They flooded the media and the Internet with lies and rumors leaving the WH to ignore or answer the fabrications.
> 
> The left wing did not fabricate lies about the right.
> 
> Opinions please. Thank you.


First the narrow perspective as we see on this thread. When that conservative poster puts up those OPINION pieces from whichever newspaper her sources choose for her that day there is generally a heading purporting that it is an important read. There is an implication that it is fact. I believe that there is a bit more transparency now than in the beginning. I can't say for sure as I don't generally read them. I can find my own right leaning reads. 
Those of us on the left KNOW what propaganda is. Our sources are right out there. When you see a link that says "DailyKOS, HuffPo, PoliticusUSA , you know what you are getting. 
The broader national news issue doesn't even have to be a case of a reporter calling a pol a liar...just ask the questions, everyone knows there will be no straight answer, pols go on the air to do the talking points game. It does let the public know that they need to do some investigating to find out the truth, though. That should be all that is necessary for on air pieces and the written media can fill in the rest. 
The price for that, of course, will be paying for our news content online.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> MaidInBedlam, I have to say that I completely agree with you. There seems to be very little true honesty in politics, and a many other organizations anymore. You have to form an opinion on the individual, and not necessarily on the group as a whole.
> I wish I knew how to change all the deceit we now live with. IMHO, The bad seems to outweigh the good by a wide margin.


We have always lived with that deceit, Nussa, it was just not so available. 
Do you really think that McCarthy believed that all of those people he was calling out with his anti-communitst witchhunt were dangerous to the security of this nation? Do you think that he really had proof that certain people were gay and had to be forced from public service?
The whole MacArthur/Truman mess in Korea was about politics not policy, wasn't it? And Vietnam? 
Hell, the reasons for WWI and the hesitancy to enter WWII were lies. 
People have been lied to and abused by those in control of info since the beginning of time.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't see how you can think left-wing opinion pieces are based on truth more than those of the right. We're talking about a game both sides play by the same rules. You might like what the left says better than what the right says, but that has nothing to do with underlying truth. Journalists are whores, and just because they have different pimps doesn't mean they're selling anything different.


That would be because left leaning opinion pieces, for the most part, support their opinion with verifiable fact within the piece. If the grain of truth is not in there then the piece should be discounted. There are plenty of lefty sources that I verify before I post them or go with them as a resource.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And I wouldn't have _you_ any other way. You are always true to what you believe.
> 
> I may disagree with you about many things, including President Obama, who I believe has been less than honest, but that shouldn't come between us.


I think we get to agree to disagree, and do our best to disagree politely.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I tend to go to the BBC, Canada's CBC and C-Span, which actually broadcasts original material such as Congressional hearings, for my news and information. US news sources seem to do too much cleaning up the news, though sometimes the weather reports are accurate.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> That is a superb analogy.
> 
> The White House has been absolutely terrible about explaining, educating and selling Obamacare. And infuriatingly enough, all that has been well pointed out to them and they've done very little that I can see to correct the error of their ways. So in that sense Todd was right (from that video clip).
> 
> BUT, he has absolutely shown himself to be toooooo darned eager and willing to simply repeat Republican lies, which are abundant (are their lips moving?) on ANY subject including Obamacare. As a result I dislike him only slightly less than David Gregory.


I do agree with what you've said about the President's handling of the ACA's problems. Given the tremendous importance of the ACA to the President, I would have thought he'd have developed his own methods for explaining, educating and selling it in a way that completely bypassed the Republican smear campaign. The exchanges should all have been thoroughly vetted for effectiveness, too. Ideally, there shouldn't be anything for the Republicans to rant and rave about the ACA except its very existence, which wouldn't have much impact if that was all they had to criticize. After all, some of them even voted for it, thus insuring that it passed in the first place.

Of special concern to me, and I bet to some of you as well, is that the younger people who were expected to sign up and provide the all-important funding for the care of the older enrollees haven't done so. They form such an important part in making the ACA work that the WH should have been doing much more to help them see their importance to the ACA. Younger enrollees may use health insurance less often than older people but they still have accidents, pregnancies (and all the pediatric care that ensues from the birth of a child) plus a host of other ailments, that require care they couldn't possibly pay for without health insurance.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think they're the same. You can point out falsehoods without supporting the plan. The WH should have pushed their plan better by correcting the GOP's misinformation; that would _not_ have been the media's job. But look at Todd's situation in the context of sports. If he heard someone announcing the wrong winning team or the wrong score in a football game, _his_ job would be to make the correction no matter which team he liked better.


I think it is very difficult to sell a product you don't really believe in.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> We have always lived with that deceit, Nussa, it was just not so available.
> Do you really think that McCarthy believed that all of those people he was calling out with his anti-communitst witchhunt were dangerous to the security of this nation? Do you think that he really had proof that certain people were gay and had to be forced from public service?
> The whole MacArthur/Truman mess in Korea was about politics not policy, wasn't it? And Vietnam?
> Hell, the reasons for WWI and the hesitancy to enter WWII were lies.
> People have been lied to and abused by those in control of info since the beginning of time.


I think McCarthy actually believed in what he was doing. He certainly showed the signs of being a True Believer. He didn't need proof because he was convinced that the threat of Communism was far greater than it actually was. Neither was he alone, he had his HUAC backing him. It was easy for him to succeed at pointing the finger at people who might be commies, or at least comsymps. He even tried to get my father for his union organizing and efforts to integrate neighborhoods in my home town, and my father was as far away from being a Communist as it was possible for a Labor Democrat to be. Fear was on McCarthy's side, so what need did he have for truth?

The Cold War was also a new element in the international struggle for balance of power between our country and its allies, and those countries we had no intention of making into allies. Fear is a great motivator, whether there is any truth behind it or not. Think about how we believed we could duck and cover to survive a nuclear bomb attack. What absolute nonsense, yet we were convinced it would work, and it didn't take us out that all-important state of fear. It was just a political tactic to keep the American people primed to accept the greater actions we took to support the Cold War.

MacArthur was a prima donna who could only be placated and silenced by giving him what he wanted to prevent the damage he could have done on the home front. That old chestnut, the threat of Communism didn't help much to keep our hands off Korea.

Our adherence to the concept of isolationism kept us out of WWI and WWII until there were huge, unavoidable reasons for getting involved. The combatant nations who we preferred to be victorious to maintain the then current state of our allegiances in WWI were almost at the point of defeat, and when there was a direct attack on the US at Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt didn't have much choice but to declare war on Japan. Yes, these were politically driven decisions, but also ones that prevented victory by nations we and our allies whose victory we so strongly opposed.

When the French pulled out of Viet Nam in 1954, Eisenhower brought us in to take their place. Fear of communist China won the day there. Things would have been far different if we had supported Ho Chi Minh at that time, when he was still idealistic enough to believe his pleas for support to form a democratic nation would be heard and acted on. Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon all did their best to turn Viet Nam into a place to send our cannon fodder, many of them conveniently African-American.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Hmmm. Sounds a great deal like a certain freshman senator and like-minded members of the right who are willing to use fear tactics and who are willing to go to great lengths to get what they want.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Hmmm. Sounds a great deal like a certain freshman senator and like-minded members of the right who are willing to use fear tactics and who are willing to go to great lengths to get what they want.


Yes, it certainly does sound just like today. 
People don't change, just the circumstances and the faces. Of course, we can now see what it going on if we are interested unlike in the past. 
Heck, even when George HW Bush went to the Middle East on the word of liars we didn't find out until after we were home that the so-called atrociities were lies. 
Would the American people have been quite so happy to go to protect Kuwait if those stories of murdered babies had not been publicized? 
The media has been the lackey of governments for generations.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I do agree with what you've said about the President's handling of the ACA's problems. Given the tremendous importance of the ACA to the President, I would have thought he'd have developed his own methods for explaining, educating and selling it in a way that completely bypassed the Republican smear campaign. The exchanges should all have been thoroughly vetted for effectiveness, too. Ideally, there shouldn't be anything for the Republicans to rant and rave about the ACA except its very existence, which wouldn't have much impact if that was all they had to criticize. After all, some of them even voted for it, thus insuring that it passed in the first place.
> 
> Of special concern to me, and I bet to some of you as well, is that the younger people who were expected to sign up and provide the all-important funding for the care of the older enrollees haven't done so. They form such an important part in making the ACA work that the WH should have been doing much more to help them see their importance to the ACA. Younger enrollees may use health insurance less often than older people but they still have accidents, pregnancies (and all the pediatric care that ensues from the birth of a child) plus a host of other ailments, that require care they couldn't possibly pay for without health insurance.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Those of us on the left KNOW what propaganda is. Our sources are right out there. When you see a link that says "DailyKOS, HuffPo, PoliticusUSA , you know what you are getting.


I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that those sources are propaganda? If so, I disagree. I would say yes, they're biased, but that doesn't in and of itself mean dishonest or inaccurate.

But then, perhaps we should define propaganda. I'm not all that impressed with the Wikiepedia definition, but I'll post it nonetheless:



> Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of the community toward some cause or position by presenting only one side of an argument. Propaganda statements may be partly false and partly true. Propaganda is usually repeated and dispersed over a wide variety of media in order to create the chosen result in audience attitudes.
> 
> As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political, religious or commercial agenda. Propaganda can be used as a form of ideological or commercial warfare.


This Merriam-Webster definition more accurateley reflects my own understanding of the term:



> ideas or statements that are often false or exaggerated and that are spread in order to help a cause, a political leader, a government, etc.


It's the "false or exaggerated" quality that meshes with my own understanding, but there is a more neutral definition:



> the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person


Call me biased (which I'll readily admit) -- or too biased to see things clearly if you will, in which case I invite your examples -- but I consider the sources you listed to be biased, perhaps (i.e., pro-Democrats, progressives and liberals) but mostly devoid of "propaganda."

Two of the reasons I just can't identify with the neutral version of propaganda is that (1) the word is so frequently used to describe the vry negative (Soviet propaganda, Nazi propaganda, anti-gay propaganda, and so forth) and (2) "spin" strikes me as a better, more appropriate for the neutral variety -- except when "spin" morphs into actual outright lies, which seems more and more frequently these days.

Spin: The glass is half full (rather than half empty).
Lie: The glass hasn't been touched. Or: Oh, the glass? Not an issue at all.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That would be because left leaning opinion pieces, for the most part, support their opinion with verifiable fact within the piece. If the grain of truth is not in there then the piece should be discounted. There are plenty of lefty sources that I verify before I post them or go with them as a resource.


ABSOLUTELY, 100% correct.

I was reading a Glenn Greenwald post to his blog the other day and I was literally overwhelmed with the hot links to validation, documentation and additional information _heavily_ peppered throughout. His certainly isn't the only example, but it was so link-heavy that I had to take note. For lefties, even most blogs have ample documentation for (that is, links to) sources and documentation. If you see anything like that in rightwing blogs, it's more than likely to other opinion pieces which are equally bogus.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> ABSOLUTELY, 100% correct.
> 
> I was reading a Glenn Greenwald post to his blog the other day and I was literally overwhelmed with the hot links to validation, documentation and additional information _heavily_ peppered throughout. His certainly isn't the only example, but it was so link-heavy that I had to take note. For lefties, even most blogs have ample documentation for (that is, links to) sources and documentation. If you see anything like that in rightwing blogs, it's more than likely to other opinion pieces which are equally bogus.


Which is pretty much what I was saying, in some form that you didn't understand earlier. You are not the first and you will not be the last. 
All of those sites list their sources, we all know that they are left leaning if not fully tilted  , so when I read a KOS report and think that they have gone a bit too far I can check what the sources say and develop my own line of thought about the subject.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I do agree with ...


I don't remember my exact words to you and am not going to waste my time going back to look, but I do remember making the point that I do not intend to engage with you ever again. I meant it. No one treats me as you did and gets away with it. I'd prefer you not address me at all, but barring that, I can and will simply continue to ignore you.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Which is pretty much what I was saying, in some form that you didn't understand earlier. You are not the first and you will not be the last.
> All of those sites list their sources, we all know that they are left leaning if not fully tilted  , so when I read a KOS report and think that they have gone a bit too far I can check what the sources say and develop my own line of thought about the subject.


Heheh. Fully tilted works for me. :lol:

Especially since I feel I can trust the underpinnings to be accurate.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think it is very difficult to sell a product you don't really believe in.


Goldman Sachs and other bankers do it all the time: they sell crap to their smaller, less knowledgeable clients, then bet against it with their own money. They make out like the bandits they are. Yet this is not considered fraud. _Caveat emptor._


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Goldman Sachs and other bankers do it all the time: they sell crap to their smaller, less knowledgeable clients, then bet against it with their own money. They make out like the bandits they are. Yet this is not considered fraud. _Caveat emptor._


I thank God that the current POTUS is not as soulless and corrupt as the whores at GS et al.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Goldman Sachs and other bankers do it all the time: they sell crap to their smaller, less knowledgeable clients, then bet against it with their own money. They make out like the bandits they are. Yet this is not considered fraud. _Caveat emptor._


I thank God that the current POTUS is not as soulless and corrupt as the whores at GS et al.
Oh, I take that back, that is an insult to whores. 
I cannot think of a term negative enough to describe those jackasses.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Hmmm. Sounds a great deal like a certain freshman senator and like-minded members of the right who are willing to use fear tactics and who are willing to go to great lengths to get what they want.


Even the make-up is the same: one senator, with a following in the House. Except I don't think McCarthy read from Dr. Seuss. He had lists instead.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Now, here's a biased little number -- but that doesn't mean the facts are wrong (e.g., number of enrollments). And I happen to think the analysis (aka: opinions) -- esp. re McConnell -- is well-supported by said facts (e.g., running to repeal the ACA in his state of KY where it's well run and very successful is pure idiocy. But by all means, please continue, Senator).



> *Republicans In Collapse as Obamacare Enrollment Skyrockets In December*
> By: Jason Easley
> Sunday, December, 29th, 2013, 11:43 am
> 
> ...


Bring on the backlash!

Something else some Republicans are going to feel a backlash about is their cold hearted and cruel refusal to extend unemployment benefits.



> *GOP Incumbents in Key Districts Are Vulnerable for Wanting to Slash Unemployment Benefits
> Majorities of Republican voters dont want jobless benefits cut.*
> http://www.alternet.org/economy/swing-district-gop-voters-want-unemployment-benefits-extended
> House Republicans are going to find votersincluding from their partywill remember and punish them if they allow long-term unemployment benefits for 1.3 million Americans to end three days after Christmas, a new survey by Public Policy Polling has found.
> ...


Aha! Alternet is another one of those _librul_ websites.

Why yes, yes it is. And in this case it's reporting factually on a recent poll conducted by a reasonably well-respected polling organization

(See how that works??)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I thank God that the current POTUS is not as soulless and corrupt as the whores at GS et al.


They're not whores; they're pimps. And they have said they are "doing God's work." Their God must be Mammon.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I thank God that the current POTUS is not as soulless and corrupt as the whores at GS et al.
> Oh, I take that back, that is an insult to whores.
> I cannot think of a term negative enough to describe those jackasses.


"Spawn of Satan"?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> "Spawn of Satan"?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I ran across this the other day and thought I'd share. WHen oh when will we on the left figure it out for once and for all????



> *The more things change, (local newspaper article from 1864) the more they stay the same...*
> 
> was doing some research.. just for the heck of it.. .and came across the following small piece in one of my local newspapers entitled "The Rich Vs the Poor"
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I ran across this the other day and thought I'd share. WHen oh when will we on the left figure it out for once and for all????


I am not so sure that it is a matter of not having it figured out as not being able to get that message to people who keep thinking in some cockeyed optimist sorta way that they really are going to work their way to fiscal abundance. 
Because of that wackadoodle outlook they align their efforts and their votes with those who will take advantage of them and never let them in.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am not so sure that it is a matter of not having it figured out as not being able to get that message to people who keep thinking in some cockeyed optimist sorta way that they really are going to work their way to fiscal abundance.
> Because of that wackadoodle outlook they align their efforts and their votes with those who will take advantage of them and never let them in.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I ran across this the other day and thought I'd share. WHen oh when will we on the left figure it out for once and for all????


I'm sure the same thing was said even a century earlier.

How many times in our lifetime have we been told that if only we let the rich keep every cent they have, they will take care of everyone else? It's been disproved over and over again (and even David Stockman, Mr. Supply Side/Trickle Down, admits it doesn't work), and they still insist it's the way to go.

So many true believers are being lied to, yet they insist it's going to happen. If it doesn't, it's because wealthy people are still being forced to pay taxes.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I don't remember my exact words to you and am not going to waste my time going back to look, but I do remember making the point that I do not intend to engage with you ever again. I meant it. No one treats me as you did and gets away with it. I'd prefer you not address me at all, but barring that, I can and will simply continue to ignore you.


This is a public place. Anyone who participates in this topic is free to respond to anything you say.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure the same thing was said even a century earlier.
> 
> How many times in our lifetime have we been told that if only we let the rich keep every cent they have, they will take care of everyone else?


Yes, and for some reason too many of us are still buying it.

Not only that, but as you aver, we seem to have a very difficult time remembering across generations. I've often thought to myself one of the BIG problems we have as humans is not short memory but short lifetimes. We only know this is an old story already well-debunked if we learn it from our history books -- which too many of us don't.

(I myself absolutely despised history in school. I just didn't get it. It all seemed so long ago. Even tho I was born in 1948, WWII was no more current to me than ancient history, and that's not much of an exaggeration at all. It was long, long, long ago and, to me, totally irrelevant to my life.)

I've posted this before but IMO it's always worth trotting out again:

*"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness". - John Kenneth Galbraith*

Oh, btw, madam copyeditor (aka: Purl). I am going stark raving mad these days with all the misplaced punctuation vis a vis quotation marks, as the quote I just copied and pasted -- and left as is in order to make my point/ask my question. What the hay is going on, anyway? Suddenly NO ONE ON THE PLANET can do it right. I feel like I've fallen into an alternative universe and I'm going slightly mad. I think it's so odd how waves of these errors sweep through like this, like viral epidemics. A few years ago, and I still hear it a bit too often, it was everyone insisting on misusing the phrase "to beg the question." Aaaaaargh. I'm not really all that much of a perfectionist on such matters, but that doesn't mean I can just totally disconnect from it either.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

A little more information on the Benghazi "scandal."

This is actually old news, but it didn't get much play the first time around and with the NEW "news" that there really was no there there, I think this is pretty interesting.



> *Audio Emerges Proving Secret Conservative Organization Behind Benghazi Scandal*
> 
> Groundswell, the conservative behind-the-scenes organization that forms a coalition between prominent Republicans, right wing media, and conservative activists to wage a 30-front war against Obama and progressives has been revealed to have played a role in the hype and false scandalization of the Benghazi controversy. A secret tape released by Crooks And Liars (audio below) has detailed the cooperation between House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH), Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), Ginni Thomas (the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas), former Rep. Allen West, as well as high-ranking members of Judicial Watch and Breitbart. The meeting was presided over by Catherine Engelbrecht, one of the founders of the voter suppression group, True The Vote.
> 
> ...


Clarence Thomas really needs to be impeached. Not long ago he gave a speech at a fundraiser -- strictly forbidden in his position (by common practice if not actual law), and also recently he was found to have not reported some of his income. He doesn't recuse himself from cases he's not capable of being imbiased about, and now this, his lovely wife getting involved where she shouldn't be.

More info:
*Inside Groundswell: Read the Memos of the New Right-Wing Strategy Group Planning a "30 Front War" * http://www.democraticunderground.com/101681504


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

And finally -- I just ran across this and even tho I'm a staunch feminist, I think it's hilarious and had to share:



> A few good reasons why being a man is awesome
> 1. Your last name stays put.
> 2. Wedding plans take care of themselves.
> 3. You can never be pregnant.
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And finally -- I just ran across this and even tho I'm a staunch feminist, I think it's hilarious and had to share:


It _is_ hilarious, and it's mostly still true.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> A little more information on the Benghazi "scandal."
> 
> This is actually old news, but it didn't get much play the first time around and with the NEW "news" that there really was no there there, I think this is pretty interesting.
> 
> ...


I could barely hear the tape; the sound was muffled, and I gave up. But if the story is even half true, that's way too much. There is no such thing as a conscience in these people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> *"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness". - John Kenneth Galbraith*
> 
> Oh, btw, madam copyeditor (aka: Purl). I am going stark raving mad these days with all the misplaced punctuation vis a vis quotation marks, as the quote I just copied and pasted -- and left as is in order to make my point/ask my question. What the hay is going on, anyway? Suddenly NO ONE ON THE PLANET can do it right. I feel like I've fallen into an alternative universe and I'm going slightly mad. I think it's so odd how waves of these errors sweep through like this, like viral epidemics. A few years ago, and I still hear it a bit too often, it was everyone insisting on misusing the phrase "to beg the question." Aaaaaargh. I'm not really all that much of a perfectionist on such matters, but that doesn't mean I can just totally disconnect from it either.


I ain't a madame; I'm a concierge - Mel Brooks, _The Producers_. It's not just punctuation. It seems to be everything to do with language. Once the morons are free to publish whatever they choose, writing takes a turn for the worst.

I recently (2 or 3 years ago) proofread the manuscript of a book on Harriet Beecher Stowe written by a Distinguished Professor of English at CUNY, a man about your age. He used "begged the question" to mean "raised the question," which really upset me. I corrected it and sent him several sources, but what is an English professor distinguished for if not his English? What bothers me is that when the meaning changes, a concept is lost.

I can almost date when the phrase "eke out" stopped meaning "supplement" (as in "he eked out his pay as a writer by working as a bag boy at the supermarket") and became "squeezed out." What's wrong with "squeezed" if that's what you want to say?

And please allow me once again to mourn the loss of the word "me" in such phrases as "send it to Knitry and me" or "between you and me," which has been replaced by "I" for no conceivable reason. Nobody would say "send it to I," but if Knitry is in the sentence, "me" is not.

Well, "you started it" is my only excuse for this lecture.

BTW, _The Chicago Manual of Style_ has some blogs covering language which can get very funny sometimes.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Yes, and for some reason too many of us are still buying it.
> 
> Not only that, but as you aver, we seem to have a very difficult time remembering across generations. I've often thought to myself one of the BIG problems we have as humans is not short memory but short lifetimes. We only know this is an old story already well-debunked if we learn it from our history books -- which too many of us don't.
> 
> ...


There's no excuse for being fool enough to despise history, even as a kid in school. If you had taken some time to develop a taste for history you'd have an actual perspective about the state of our country today. Too bad, so sad, you missed that boat, and history doesn't throw anyone a life preserver. At least you get to drown in current events with all the other despisers of history. Personally, I'm real glad to be on dry land.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There's no excuse for being fool enough to despise history, even as a kid in school. If you had taken some time to develop a taste for history you'd actually have an actual perspective about the state of our country today. Too bad, so sad, you missed that boat, and history doesn't throw anyone a life preserver. At least you get to drown in current events with all the other despisers of history. Personally, I'm real glad to be on dry land.


Count me as one of the "despisers of history," at least when I was young. And there's no need to sound so holier-than-thou just because you liked a subject that was very dull to me; you probably didn't like mathematics, which I found exciting and fascinating. Maybe I have a better perspective on the universe than you have. Or maybe what you say is bunk.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Count me as one of the "despisers of history," at least when I was young. And there's no need to sound so holier-than-thou just because you liked a subject that was very dull to me; you probably didn't like mathematics, which I found exciting and fascinating. Maybe I have a better perspective on the universe than you have. Or maybe what you say is bunk.


Do you actually think I care if I sound like I think I'm holier than anyone else? (By the way, Knitry is the particular fool I was addressing, not the whole bunch of people who participate in this topic.) I'm in a bad enough mood today that I'm really glad all the despisers of history will be incredibly surprised when history repeats itself, as it so often does, and bites them good and hard. I liked math and science a great deal, along with poetry and music. In case you haven't heard this before, music is the emotional expression of mathematics. I really love that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Do you actually think I care if I sound like I think I'm holier than anyone else? I'm in a bad enough mood today that I'm really glad all the despisers of history will be incredibly surprised when history repeats itself, as it so often does, and bites them good and hard. I liked math and science a great deal, along with poetry and music. In case you haven't heard this before, music is the emotional expression of mathematics. I really love that.


Okay, let's move on. What can we do to get you out of that mood, MIB?
I'm rather cantankerous myself today. We have been in a deep freeze since Thanksgiving and am I starting to develop cabin fever. -17 dg right now. So glad I learned how to knit socks! I am wearing some really warm wool socks right under my fur lined slippers and my feet are still cold. Are you getting hit with some nasty storms today?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Do you actually think I care if I sound like I think I'm holier than anyone else? (By the way, Knitry is the particular fool I was addressing, not the whole bunch of people who participate in this topic.) I'm in a bad enough mood today that I'm really glad all the despisers of history will be incredibly surprised when history repeats itself, as it so often does, and bites them good and hard. I liked math and science a great deal, along with poetry and music. In case you haven't heard this before, music is the emotional expression of mathematics. I really love that.


Music is *a* physical expression of mathematics; it's nonsense to say that mathematics has, or requires, emotional expression. It's one thing to anthropomorphize animals, but to anthropomorphize an abstract system is over the top.

I knew you were addressing that message to Knitry, but it hit a nerve in me. Besides, the fact that someone didn't particularly like high school history doesn't make them ignorant. People grow older, and their tastes change, and there are plenty of books to read.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, let's move on. What can we do to get you out of that mood, MIB?
> I'm rather cantankerous myself today. We have been in a deep freeze since Thanksgiving and am I starting to develop cabin fever. -17 dg right now. So glad I learned how to knit socks! I am wearing some really warm wool socks right under my fur lined slippers and my feet are still cold. Are you getting hit with some nasty storms today?


Thank you, Patty, for that. Where on earth are you that gets down to -17? Whatever happened to global warming?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay, let's move on. What can we do to get you out of that mood, MIB?
> I'm rather cantankerous myself today. We have been in a deep freeze since Thanksgiving and am I starting to develop cabin fever. -17 dg right now. So glad I learned how to knit socks! I am wearing some really warm wool socks right under my fur lined slippers and my feet are still cold. Are you getting hit with some nasty storms today?


The weather has been bright and sunny here for quite a while. The nasty storms around here are figurative. Today was a day with health crisis for a family member, following closely after the deaths of two close friends. I have a feeling this stuff is going to happen more and more often, and I'm just starting to develop some sea legs to ride this stuff out.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Music is *a* physical expression of mathematics; it's nonsense to say that mathematics has, or requires, emotional expression. It's one thing to anthropomorphize animals, but to anthropomorphize an abstract system is over the top.
> 
> I knew you were addressing that message to Knitry, but it hit a nerve in me. Besides, the fact that someone didn't particularly like high school history doesn't make them ignorant. People grow older, and their tastes change, and there are plenty of books to read.


I'm not attributing anything to music that isn't true, nor am I anthropomorphising the abstract system of mathematics. Mathematics certainly doesn't require an emotional expression, it just happens to have one and it's called music. Music also happens to have extensive abstract underpinnings. Music theory is a pretty abstract field of study, by the way. Sometimes I wonder how I managed to survive studying it, but, of course the very abstraction of music theory is beautiful.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm not attributing anything to music that isn't true, nor am I anthropomorphising the abstract system of mathematics. Mathmatics doesn't require an emotional expression, it just happens to have one and it's called music. Music also happens to have extensive abstract underpinings. Music theory is a pretty abstract field of study, by the way. Sometimes i wonder how I managed to survive studying it, but, of course the very abstraction of music theory is beautiful.


Of course you're attributing something to music that isn't true. If you can show me one piece of music that expresses "emotionally" a particular mathematical theorem, I'll not only eat my large Anna Zilboorg kaleidoscopic hat, but I'll change my mind. There is certainly a relationship between music and mathematics, but why is it necessary to attribute emotions to the purest, most abstract study there is? When a composer or a musician produces a piece of music, his emotions may be expressed in it, but neither Euclid nor Gödel put his emotions into his work.

It's 2.20am here, time to go to bed, so if you want to continue this, it will have to be tomorrow sometime. Good night.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have to tell you, I am quite pleased that the part of me that my abusers fractured cut me off from the emotionality of a false sense of immortality. 
People live, people die. Why anyone is interested in watching family members or loved ones suffer in any form is beyond me. At the very least go annoy people who will find pleasure in annoying you back. 
KPG and one of her pals were over on "Fixed Income" looking for combatants. Have a blast and a HNY.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course you're attributing something to music that isn't true. If you can show me one piece of music that expresses "emotionally" a particular mathematical theorem, I'll not only eat my large Anna Zilboorg kaleidoscopic hat, but I'll change my mind. There is certainly a relationship between music and mathematics, but why is it necessary to attribute emotions to the purest, most abstract study there is? When a composer or a musician produces a piece of music, his emotions may be expressed in it, but neither Euclid nor Gödel put his emotions into his work
> It's 2.20am here, time to go to bed, so if you want to continue this, it will have to be tomorrow sometime. Good night.


 I can't possibly explain Music Theory here unless a 50 page post is OK with Admin. I guess I'll abandon that effort and leave both of us with our particular sets of knowledge. I wish I could give you a better answer because you might find it interesting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I can't possibly explain Music Theory here unless a 50 page post is OK with Admin. I guess I'll abandon that effort and leave both of us with our particular sets of knowledge. I wish I could give you a better answer because you might find it interesting.


I don't need a 50-page post. I know some music theory, and I know that some key signatures can evoke certain emotions. Also, that mathematics can be used to describe what is going on in music. But that doesn't mean that music is an expression of the mathematics; it seems to me it's the reverse.

I don't know whether your statement (that music is the emotional expression of mathematics) originated with you or you read or heard it somewhere else, but it shows a deep misunderstanding of the nature of mathematics.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have to tell you, I am quite pleased that the part of me that my abusers fractured cut me off from the emotionality of a false sense of immortality.
> People live, people die. Why anyone is interested in watching family members or loved ones suffer in any form is beyond me. At the very least go annoy people who will find pleasure in annoying you back.
> KPG and one of her pals were over on "Fixed Income" looking for combatants. Have a blast and a HNY.


Okay, something else never to forgive you for. I read the entire Fixed Income thread, and there they came, name-calling, stupidity, and cruelty along with them. But now I don't have time to read much of anything else. So thaaaank yoooou


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, something else never to forgive you for. I read the entire Fixed Income thread, and there they came, name-calling, stupidity, and cruelty along with them. But now I don't have time to read much of anything else. So thaaaank yoooou


Sorry, it really was an excellent thread until the wacky bats showed up.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry, it really was an excellent thread until the wacky bats showed up.


It was good that people could vent, and some even had good advice. Do the "wacky bats" (perfect description) decide among themselves that they'll all do it at once?

I think I'll unwatch it. The comedy stylings of Joeysomma and Solowey are not for me.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It was good that people could vent, and some even had good advice. Do the "wacky bats" (perfect description) decide among themselves that they'll all do it at once?
> 
> I think I'll unwatch it. The comedy stylings of Joeysomma and Solowey are not for me.


The JandS Show didn't turn up until I mentioned the thread here, I don't know if the friends passed the word or they saw it here. 
Either way the thread was spoiled for so many.
Oh, or maybe they saw KPG and whoever posting there.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It was good that people could vent, and some even had good advice. Do the "wacky bats" (perfect description) decide among themselves that they'll all do it at once?
> 
> I think I'll unwatch it. The comedy stylings of Joeysomma and Solowey are not for me.


i AGREE - Wacky Bats is the PERFECT description/name. Love it. WBs.

Speaking of whom, I'm surely not the only one who's noticed they've apparently jumped ship. Guess it was just too hot in the galley. :lol:

As for their misadventures in internecine warfare, I am sure they plot amongst themselves because KPG (I think?) said as much when she lit into me a few days ago. I found it very interesting.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> i AGREE - Wacky Bats is the PERFECT description/name. Love it. WBs.
> 
> Speaking of whom, I'm surely not the only one who's noticed they've apparently jumped ship. Guess it was just too hot in the galley. :lol:
> 
> As for their misadventures in internecine warfare, I am sure they plot amongst themselves because KPG (I think?) said as much when she lit into me a few days ago. I found it very interesting.


They do this from time to time, I just get so I think it is a nice thread and WHAM! the wackybats are back.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I recently (2 or 3 years ago) proofread the manuscript of a book on Harriet Beecher Stowe written by a Distinguished Professor of English at CUNY, a man about your age. He used "begged the question" to mean "raised the question," which really upset me.


Yes, yes, exactly. For a year or more I heard everyone and her brother using the phrase in exactly that perfectly wrong way. Drove me bonkers. What was really bad is that it was so often done by people who should have known better -- journalists (broadcast and print), and certain other purportedly educated people as well. I still hear it now and then, but it seems the fad has mostly passed.



> And please allow me once again to mourn the loss of the word "me" in such phrases as "send it to Knitry and me" or "between you and me," which has been replaced by "I" for no conceivable reason. Nobody would say "send it to I," but if Knitry is in the sentence, "me" is not.


Or even worse (IMO): "myself." Aaaargh, it's the kind of thing that could make me go postal.

And yes, I most certainly did start it. Loved your rant. Made my day. I'll have to check out the Chicago Style Manual blogs sometime.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> i AGREE - Wacky Bats is the PERFECT description/name. Love it. WBs.
> 
> Speaking of whom, I'm surely not the only one who's noticed they've apparently jumped ship. Guess it was just too hot in the galley. :lol:
> 
> As for their misadventures in internecine warfare, I am sure they plot amongst themselves because KPG (I think?) said as much when she lit into me a few days ago. I found it very interesting.


I also noticed their conspicuous absence. I attributed it to holiday preparations, but now that that's over, they're still away. Time for mice to play.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm rather cantankerous myself today. We have been in a deep freeze since Thanksgiving and am I starting to develop cabin fever. -17 dg right now. So glad I learned how to knit socks! I am wearing some really warm wool socks right under my fur lined slippers and my feet are still cold. Are you getting hit with some nasty storms today?


Yeah, I wanna know where you are too. I heard Michigan has some rather nasty weather right now -- but we here in the not-so-sunny South are on tap to get some rather cold weather in a few days too.

I'm working on my 4th ever pair of socks, the 2nd pair for me, and am currently wearing the only other pair I have, and frankly, I'm not that happy with either pair. Not sure why, and I can't say I'm enjoying knitting them either. Sigh. I'm just a bit of a knitting misfit, I think. Can't find anything I want to knit that would suit me for one reason or another. I don't think socks are that quick, either.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, yes, exactly. For a year or more I heard everyone and her brother using the phrase in exactly that perfectly wrong way. Drove me bonkers. What was really bad is that it was so often done by people who should have known better -- journalists (broadcast and print), and certain other purportedly educated people as well. I still hear it now and then, but it seems the fad has mostly passed.


I hear it only used incorrectly. Other than you and I - er, myself - I don't think anyone has used it properly since William F. Buckley died.



> Or even worse (IMO): "myself." Aaaargh, it's the kind of thing that could make me go postal.
> 
> And yes, I most certainly did start it. Loved your rant. Made my day. I'll have to check out the Chicago Style Manual blogs sometime.


Happy New Year, Knitry.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think anyone has used it properly since William F. Buckley died.


ROFL. You are such a stitch.

Happy New Year to you too, Purl.

And to all of you. Let's go make 2014 a miraculous year!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't need a 50-page post. I know some music theory, and I know that some key signatures can evoke certain emotions. Also, that mathematics can be used to describe what is going on in music. But that doesn't mean that music is an expression of the mathematics; it seems to me it's the reverse.
> 
> I don't know whether your statement (that music is the emotional expression of mathematics) originated with you or you read or heard it somewhere else, but it shows a deep misunderstanding of the nature of mathematics.


My statement is the happy marriage of my knowledge of music theory and the knowledge of many friends of mine who are both mathematicians and musicians. I took what they tried to say in many discussions about how they believed their knowledge of mathematics led to their becoming musicians, and after many discussions, I compressed what they were groping to say into the statement that music is the emotional expression of mathematics and was told I had found the right words to express what they were trying to say.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My statement is the happy marriage of my knowledge of music theory and the knowledge of many friends of mine who are both mathematicians and musicians. I took what they tried to say in many discussions about how they believed their knowledge of mathematics led to their becoming musicians, and after many discussions, I compressed what they were groping to say into the statement that music is the emotional expression of mathematics and was told I had found the right words to express what they were trying to say.


If that's what your friends told you, fine, believe them. I would want proof (as would any real mathematician) before I ascribed emotion to mathematics. This is going to be one of those areas where we agree to disagree.

Many physicians are also musicians. I wonder whether it could also be said that music is the emotional expression of our physical systems (nervous, muscular, digestive, etc.). In fact, I suspect that whatever one chooses, one can say that music is its emotional expression.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If that's what your friends told you, fine, believe them. I would want proof (as would any real mathematician) before I ascribed emotion to mathematics. This is going to be one of those areas where we agree to disagree.
> 
> Many physicians are also musicians. I wonder whether it could also be said that music is the emotional expression of our physical systems (nervous, muscular, digestive, etc.). In fact, I suspect that whatever one chooses, one can say that music is its emotional expression.


Don't know enough either about music or mathematics to pick a side--but I have noticed that a lot of musicians seem to be very good at math as well.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If that's what your friends told you, fine, believe them. I would want proof (as would any real mathematician) before I ascribed emotion to mathematics. This is going to be one of those areas where we agree to disagree.
> 
> Many physicians are also musicians. I wonder whether it could also be said that music is the emotional expression of our physical systems (nervous, muscular, digestive, etc.). In fact, I suspect that whatever one chooses, one can say that music is its emotional expression.


Our ships have definitely passed in the night. This is probably a good thing as I'm not going to say anything more about something we seem to be coming at from completely incompatible directions. I wholeheartedly agree to disagree and drop the subject.

Tomorrow it'll be a new year. May we all enjoy it. I'm sure going to give it a good try.:thumbup: Happy New Year, everyone!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl, I think I may have that proof you are asking for. At least in a way. Please read this with an open mind.
It's like this.... I have never, I mean NEVER understood numbers. The whole aspect of math has escaped me all my life. I have always said that I feel as though I was missing a part of the puzzle when it came to understanding math. 
Now here is what I have finally came to believe while reading what you and MIB have been discussing.
I took piano lessons for a year when I was young..and never could get my mind to work those notes in unison with my fingers, on the piano keys. And I played the clarinet in band for 6 yrs. in school. Yet could never quite get the notes and my fingers to work properly together. And as crazy as it sounds. I think MIB's theory may have made a connection in some way.
Now it isn't because I'm tone deaf, because I'm not. I have a very good ear for music. I can sing any part, as long as I can hit the range. I can read music enough to follow and sing a song. But yet I can not put the musical note to a musical instrument and have it come out sounding very well. 
So though I may not be mathematically inclined....I can see where math & musical ability may have a connection. At least that is my non-solicited opinion on the subject.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ooops....Hope I didn't restart anything. 
But MIB....I want to thank you for your theory....It has finally brought some sense to something I have always wondered about.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Ooops....Hope I didn't restart anything.
> But MIB....I want to thank you for your theory....It has finally brought some sense to something I have always wondered about.


Nope, you haven't restarted anything and if you've enjoyed what I had to say that's fine with me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Don't know enough either about music or mathematics to pick a side--but I have noticed that a lot of musicians seem to be very good at math as well.


That's true, and vice versa. I was about to suggest that they come from the same side of the brain, but when I looked it up I turned out to be wrong (and apparently psychologists don't much use the right/left brain distinction any more). Music comes from the "emotional" side, while mathematics comes from the "logical" side.

I've also known quite a few medical doctors who were musicians. I don't know where that connection is, esp. since medicine needs to be treated both logically and emotionally.

There's no need to pick sides. This is one of those arguments that will just fade away. Of course, I know I'm right (but MIB knows that about herself, too).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Poor Purl, I think I may have that proof you are asking for. At least in a way. Please read this with an open mind.
> It's like this.... I have never, I mean NEVER understood numbers. The whole aspect of math has escaped me all my life. I have always said that I feel as though I was missing a part of the puzzle when it came to understanding math.
> Now here is what I have finally came to believe while reading what you and MIB have been discussing.
> I took piano lessons for a year when I was young..and never could get my mind to work those notes in unison with my fingers, on the piano keys. And I played the clarinet in band for 6 yrs. in school. Yet could never quite get the notes and my fingers to work properly together. And as crazy as it sounds. I think MIB's theory may have made a connection in some way.
> ...


Nussa, thank you for stepping in and telling us about your own experience. I've never doubted that mathematics and music are related in some way. What I need proved to me is that, as MIB states, music is the _emotional_ expression of mathematics.

You may feel the same emotion when faced with either having to play a piece or having to solve a problem, but that's within you. And I've known mathematicians who've said that they enjoy playing music as a way to express their emotions, but that is also personal. The thing about mathematics is that it is universal. What one mathematician has proved, all others will accept as true, without any emotions felt about it (except maybe for disappointment at not being the first to prove it).

When I took violin lessons (a mistake that lasted a year), there were a lot of situations in which sounds could be explained mathematically. But I've never encountered a piece of mathematics that could be explained/expressed musically.

Hey, it's 2014! There's a lot of noise outside! Enough with this nonsense - let's go out and dance! Maybe we can make this year better than last.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Our ships have definitely passed in the night. This is probably a good thing as I'm not going to say anything more about something we seem to be coming at from completely incompatible directions. I wholeheartedly agree to disagree and drop the subject.
> 
> Tomorrow it'll be a new year. May we all enjoy it. I'm sure going to give it a good try.:thumbup: Happy New Year, everyone!


Oops, I'm sorry; I kept going on in answer to Nussa's question.

Here it already is next year. Happy New Year.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Happy New Year to all who are still left here!

I hear a lot of fireworks going off outside......It's a free show, I should be watching....lol.

And I truly hope 2014 is a better year.....because 2013 has been a very bad and sad year for many of my friends and extended family members. 

You all have a blessed new year!.... :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Happy New Year to all who are still left here!
> 
> I hear a lot of fireworks going off outside......It's a free show, I should be watching....lol.
> 
> ...


Back at you, Nussa and my liberal buddies! And same to some of my republican buddies as well.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Happy New Year to all. And I do mean all, as compared to someone that aren't open to all


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Happy New Year to all. And I do mean all, as compared to someone that aren't open to all


LOL, so much for an open minded wish.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Happy New Year to all. And I do mean all, as compared to someone that aren't open to all


I wish everyone a happy and prosperous new year, also a peaceful year.

Metta.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, I've followed this music/math conversation with befuddled mild interest -- no offense. I don't really have any strong opinions about any part of it. I've had some thoughts, most of them not worth sharing since I don't think they'd add anything.

As far as math goes, my standard statement is: "I don't like numbers and they don't like me right back."

As for music, I love it. I need it. I spent from 3rd grade on thoroughly enmeshed in it (I played clarinet too, Nussa!) and was good enough to get recruited and given a scholarship to attend one of our state universities, which helped me tremendously since I had way of going away to college otherwise.

However, I don't know much about music theory and nor music history though my taste in music is very broad -- excluding only most organ music, most saxophone music and virtually all jazz - yuck. Oh, and most Big Band music.

See? Nothing to add to this conversation. However, there is a video that kept coming to mind, and in particular this comment brought it to the fore:



Poor Purl said:


> But I've never encountered a piece of mathematics that could be explained/expressed musically.


I'm not saying the following shows or doesn't support -- esp. since I'm not all that sure I even understand the premise or the "sides" (nor particularly care) -- I just know this kept coming to mind.

*Fibonacci Sequence in Music - original theory* - explains it 




*The Fibonacci Sequence* 



 or 



Not totally sure the music is Fibonacci, but it's an exquisitely beautiful video w/exquisitely beautiful music (IMO) and the video I'd remembered and went searching for to post here.

*The Fibonacci Sequence explained: * 




*Fibonacci Melody: Greg Sheehan at TEDxSydney* 




And just for kicks, *Fibonacci ? 1.618 no piano* -- don't know what the title means, but it's music based on pi 




In searching for the one video I remembered -- the exquisite one, I also found videos on the Fibonacci numbers applied to market trading, financial markets, programming in various languages, more re nature (humans, animals, the ocean, etc.) and of course several other musical pieces. That Fibonacci really gets around. 

Again, my only point is: here's a video that seems to be on the topic and which I was reminded of, along with a few others I found as well. (I add the disclaimer only because I don't wish to be drawn into the conversation.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, I've followed this music/math conversation with befuddled mild interest -- no offense. I don't really have any strong opinions about any part of it. I've had some thoughts, most of them not worth sharing since I don't think they'd add anything.
> 
> As far as math goes, my standard statement is: "I don't like numbers and they don't like me right back."
> 
> ...


At this point, neither do I.

I'll watch the videos later, when I grow tired (which will probably not happen for a long time) of listening to http://www.wnyc.org/radio/#/streams/jonathan-channel , where I can hear Billy Holiday, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Count Basie, and all the jazz and big band music that you describe as "yuck."


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

For the discussion about music and math, I would not say that music is THE emotional expression of mathematics, but ONE emotional expression of mathematics. You can express mathematics through painting and other forms as well. Music isn't the singular expression of mathematics. And, as with most forms of creative expression, not everybody does it the same way. So while some people use mathematics to make music, others may find another way to make music. I think that the problem is that linking two things so very different is a problem. Music falls into a "creative" category. As with everything creative it does not follow a set of steadfast rules, there is very often a bending or morphing creative process. With math it is very logical, very rigid set of rules.

I think that linking the two are link trying to link writing in the sand with writing in rock. Writing in the sand (music) can come and go, it can be written many different way without a steadfast "rule" because it can be easily washed away and rewritten. Writing in rock (math) is permanent compared to sand. You can change writing, but you must leave the old writing behind, it's not something easily changed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> For the discussion about music and math, I would not say that music is THE emotional expression of mathematics, but ONE emotional expression of mathematics. You can express mathematics through painting and other forms as well. Music isn't the singular expression of mathematics. And, as with most forms of creative expression, not everybody does it the same way. So while some people use mathematics to make music, others may find another way to make music. I think that the problem is that linking two things so very different is a problem. Music falls into a "creative" category. As with everything creative it does not follow a set of steadfast rules, there is very often a bending or morphing creative process. With math it is very logical, very rigid set of rules.
> 
> I think that linking the two are link trying to link writing in the sand with writing in rock. Writing in the sand (music) can come and go, it can be written many different way without a steadfast "rule" because it can be easily washed away and rewritten. Writing in rock (math) is permanent compared to sand. You can change writing, but you must leave the old writing behind, it's not something easily changed.


Thank you, LK - you understand the problem. Or you get close. There are many ways to express mathematics, including music, and some of these are emotional, but the emotional part is not what expresses the mathematics. It may express a musician's feelings when approaching mathematics, but the mathematics remains the same regardless of the feelings. I think that's the rock part. I really like the metaphor of writing in sand vs. rock.

I object to one thing you imply, that mathematics is not creative whereas music is. Having spent many years with mathematicians, I know that they're endlessly creative (as well as very, very funny). They can take an idea to incredible lengths and in the process find new and interesting ways to view the universe, and they do this alone or in conversation with others. But after the creation, unlike artists, they sit down and prove their conjectures, or if unable to prove them learn something new from that fact.

Okay, enough ranting. We're expecting snow soon, which for me is a great treat (as I'm sure it isn't for you) and I'm listening to wonderful music. That's a good start to the year. I hope you are having the same.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll watch the videos later, when I grow tired (which will probably not happen for a long time) of listening to http://www.wnyc.org/radio/#/streams/jonathan-channel , where I can hear Billy Holiday, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Count Basie, and all the jazz and big band music that you describe as "yuck."


Now, Purl, you're a much more careful reader than that as a rule. That wasn't quite what I said.

But, in any case, I don't consider any of those "bad music" in any way. My comment wasn't a value judgment. Those genres and instruments are just not my cup of tea -- something that needn't offend anyone in any way I can imagine.

As for the videos, you're probably already aware of the Fibonacci sequence? So the only one I'd heartily recommend is the 2nd listed, and it's so beautiful (IMO) I predict you'll enjoy it.

I hope you enjoy the snow. Are ya'll expecting much?

Meanwhile, I had also remembered a sweater pattern that was based on the Fibonacci sequence from a number of years ago. I didn't find it -- which is fine because I thought it was ugly, ugly. However, if one googles knitting fibonacci, a whole bunch of things come up. Here's just a small sampling:

fibonacci bunnies http://kbsalazar.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bunnies.pdf

socks http://www.free-knitpatterns.com/detail.html?code=FK00076&cat_id=385

waistcoat http://box-elder.blogspot.com/2013/09/knitting-2-my-blue-green-fibonacci.html

another fib bunny http://www.craftsy.com/pattern/knitting/toy/fibonacci-bunny/4771

a fib variation http://suite101.com/a/fibonacci-knitting-and-crochet-a108867

vest http://knittyattitude.com/2010/02/20/knitting-with-mr-fibonacci/

this one shows how to use 7 colors in stripes and not let it look llke a dog's breakfast http://knitorious.typepad.com/knitorious/knitting_sweaters_fibonacci/index.html

another variation http://knitfits.theotherbell.com/fibonacci.htm

stripes and plaids http://lismiknits.blogspot.com/2011/04/fibonacci-in-designs.html


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Now, Purl, you're a much more careful reader than that as a rule. That wasn't quite what I said.
> 
> But, in any case, I don't consider any of those "bad music" in any way. My comment wasn't a value judgment. Those genres and instruments are just not my cup of tea -- something that needn't offend anyone in any way I can imagine.
> 
> ...


You're right, Knitry. You didn't describe them as yuck; you simply dismissed them with that word. (I always feel sad for people who don't get jazz; you're missing something that's magic in the music. Still, nobody's perfect, even though I thought you were until that message).

The Fibonacci sequence is a wonderful example of how mathematics can be descriptive of nature. It takes up about twenty minutes of a course in number theory. I know it's very popular with knitters, but most use it for stripes, which I just don't get. Bunnies I get.

In any case the discussion was about the statement that music was the "_emotional_ expression" of mathematics, which still sounds like nonsense to me. But poetic and musical people like to attribute emotions to everything (it's called the pathetic fallacy). I won't talk about it any more. I may follow some of your links; I like Kim Salazar, so I'll certainly look at hers. But there's not enough time in the world for me to check out all of them. Besides, Ella Fitzgerald is singing now, so g'bye.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)




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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK2htsFibII


Bless you, jelun. No numbers, no arguments. It was lovely.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Bless you, jelun. No numbers, no arguments. It was lovely.


The discussion was way over my head. 
For me numbers and math are logic and factual, we can use them to make beauty. 
Fiber and yarn are material we can use them to make beauty. 
Beauty evokes emotion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The discussion was way over my head.
> For me numbers and math are logic and factual, we can use them to make beauty.
> Fiber and yarn are material we can use them to make beauty.
> Beauty evokes emotion.


It wasn't over your head at all; as usual, you say it all in a few words.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Bless you, jelun. No numbers, no arguments. It was lovely.


Speaking of no arguments, has anyone heard from damemary?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Speaking of no arguments, has anyone heard from damemary?


Not for a couple of days, I think. I know she's not snowed in; I hope all is well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Speaking of no arguments, has anyone heard from damemary?


Her last posted message was December 29, which was three days ago. I sent a PM to ask how she is. Hope she answers.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry, I've been through all the Fibonacci links. They're used to make a random-seeming sequence that is orderly (except for the bunny one). I bet if you took a list of random numbers between 1 and 20, used it for striping, and repeated the stripe sequence a few times, it would be just as pleasing. These are simply easier to remember than any old random list. In nature, they're supposed to describe the growth in a colony of rabbits or the increase in leaf nodes on a tree. 

The music ones may be more to the point; I'll try those when I get around to them. Thank you for taking the time to dig them all up, though I suspect they're just begging the question.

Snow predictions are less than an inch tonight and tomorrow; tomorrow evg., though, they predict 4-8 inches. Best thing about snow predictions in the city is that they cancel alternate-side-of-the-street parking, so cars don't get in the way of the snow plows.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right, Knitry. You didn't describe them as yuck; you simply dismissed them with that word. (I always feel sad for people who don't get jazz; you're missing something that's magic in the music. Still, nobody's perfect, even though I thought you were until that message).


Yes, and some people believe you and I are missing the magic or something because we're not Christian.

I dismissed them for ME. I was expressing my personal preference, nothing more. Honestly, Purl, I am shocked at your unwillingness to "allow" others to have differing taste. Are you similarly intolerant of others' preferences in foods, colors, literature, knitting styles, and so forth?



> The Fibonacci sequence is a wonderful example of how mathematics can be descriptive of nature. It takes up about twenty minutes of a course in number theory. I know it's very popular with knitters, but most use it for stripes, which I just don't get. Bunnies I get.
> 
> In any case the discussion was about ....


I tried to say in my previous posts: This post isn't about the topic, one way or another. It's an aside, an off-topic aside, as if to say, "Oh, that reminds me of a beautiful video I saw a while back," and nothing more. I didn't hope to join or enlighten the conversation in any way, or add any insights, or do anything but throw in a completely tangential bit of information. As for the Fibonacci numbers applied to knitting, I found those a curiosity, certainly not something i was promoting.

All that said, I can assure you this is MY last post on anything remotely close to the topic -- or music!! -- as well.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

A little change of pace. I've had this put aside to post for several days now. This is quite a lengthy piece, so I can't post it all here, but I think those who find right wing language and arguments troubling and/or inscrutable (as I do) would probably get a lot out of it. I know I have, though I'm not sure I agree with absolutely everything. It's a little out of date, as well, being nearly a decade old. There's so much in it, though, it's hard to know what to excerpt.



> * What Is Conservatism and What Is Wrong with It?
> 
> Philip E. Agre
> August 2004 *
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I tried to say in my previous posts: This post isn't about the topic, one way or another. It's an aside, an off-topic aside, as if to say, "Oh, that reminds me of a beautiful video I saw a while back," and nothing more. I didn't hope to join or enlighten the conversation in any way, or add any insights, or do anything but throw in a completely tangential bit of information. As for the Fibonacci numbers applied to knitting, I found those a curiosity, certainly not something i was promoting.
> 
> All that said, I can assure you this is MY last post on anything remotely close to the topic -- or music!! -- as well.


I've been in a really bad mood all day, regardless of the promise of snow and the new year. You're absolutely right. I read your "yuck" as judgment on me even though you had no idea what kind of music I prefer. I apologize to everyone I may have PO'd today.

I still haven't had time to watch a single video (though I did have time to watch a movie with Jean Arthur and Charles Boyer). They're probably all interesting. Just not today.

I hate to think I've scared you away from certain topics. Please don't avoid them on my account. I'm sure to get out of this mood sometime.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> A little change of pace. I've had this put aside to post for several days now. This is quite a lengthy piece, so I can't post it all here, but I think those who find right wing language and arguments troubling and/or inscrutable (as I do) would probably get a lot out of it. I know I have, though I'm not sure I agree with absolutely everything. It's a little out of date, as well, being nearly a decade old. There's so much in it, though, it's hard to know what to excerpt.


Well! Thanks.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Her last posted message was December 29, which was three days ago. I sent a PM to ask how she is. Hope she answers.







Thank you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqlQwpW-x74
> 
> Thank you.


This is very good: Bill Evans & Jim Hall - Jazz Samba. Jim Hall, who died just a couple of days ago, had a summer house next door to friends of ours, and I met him a few times. Bill Evans, whom I've never met, was a genius.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been in a really bad mood all day, regardless of the promise of snow and the new year. You're absolutely right. I read your "yuck" as judgment on me even though you had no idea what kind of music I prefer. I apologize to everyone I may have PO'd today.
> 
> I still haven't had time to watch a single video (though I did have time to watch a movie with Jean Arthur and Charles Boyer). They're probably all interesting. Just not today.
> 
> I hate to think I've scared you away from certain topics. Please don't avoid them on my account. I'm sure to get out of this mood sometime.


Thank you. I just felt so ... stung.

I'm really sorry you're in a bad mood. Anything I can do to help (she asks pitifully, but earnestly).

As for the videos -- forget 'em. Not worth it. They weren't meant as an assignment!! If you decide you want to watch any, that 2nd one is still my fave, altho the first one is very short (2 minutes-ish) and useful as an explanation re music. But for heaven's sakes don't feel obligated. It's all just ... so much nonsense.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

And, lest we forget -- the thread is (still?) about Obamacare!!



> *President Obamas Approval Rating Jumps 5 Points as Millions Sign Up for Obamacare*
> By: Jason Easley
> Wednesday, January, 1st, 2014, 2:09 pm
> 
> ...


And just wait til it really gets going!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Thank you. I just felt so ... stung.
> 
> I'm really sorry you're in a bad mood. Anything I can do to help (she asks pitifully, but earnestly).
> 
> As for the videos -- forget 'em. Not worth it. They weren't meant as an assignment!! If you decide you want to watch any, that 2nd one is still my fave, altho the first one is very short (2 minutes-ish) and useful as an explanation re music. But for heaven's sakes don't feel obligated. It's all just ... so much nonsense.


Similar to trying to carry on a rational conversation with the gifter who just keeps on gifting?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is very good: Bill Evans & Jim Hall - Jazz Samba. Jim Hall, who died just a couple of days ago, had a summer house next door to friends of ours, and I met him a few times. Bill Evans, whom I've never met, was a genius.


Jim Hall's death was the reason I picked that piece. 
I have to say, his work doesn't generally make me smile and that was really what I was going for,
so easily distracted...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> And, lest we forget -- the thread is (still?) about Obamacare!!
> 
> And just wait til it really gets going!!


Not really a big fan of polls other than Nate Silver. He is frustratingly silent in the "approval arena". 
I do think that most people don't even pay attention to anything that we think is important, so if their next door neighbor is able to get a job they are happy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Not really a big fan of polls other than Nate Silver. He is frustratingly silent in the "approval arena".
> I do think that most people don't even pay attention to anything that we think is important, so if their next door neighbor is able to get a job they are happy.


This is a very important point. The economy is good so long as I keep my job. Obama's not so bad if the website works. He's wonderful if I get a subsidy for my insurance.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Jim Hall's death was the reason I picked that piece.
> I have to say, his work doesn't generally make me smile and that was really what I was going for,
> so easily distracted...


He was very quiet-spoken, and quite funny at times, in a self-deprecating way.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And, lest we forget -- the thread is (still?) about Obamacare!!
> 
> And just wait til it really gets going!!


Then his approval rating will jump 5 million points! Have you noticed how conspicuous the naysayers have been by their absence?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then his approval rating will jump 5 million points! Have you noticed how conspicuous the naysayers have been by their absence?


They are busily over there on that "Fixed Income" thread being as unpleasant as they can be.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It is snowing here, I am hoping that you were able to see the start of the storm prior to heading off to bed, Empress Poor Purl.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is snowing here, I am hoping that you were able to see the start of the storm prior to heading off to bed, Empress Poor Purl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It only just started down here, and my blinds are still down.
> 
> Damemary is fine. She said she's trying to resolve the duplicate posting problem. I'd rather have all those multiple messages than do without her.


Glad she's OK--I miss her posts! I always loved jumping on in the morning and reading her intelligent and well-thought out comments of the previous night.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is snowing here, I am hoping that you were able to see the start of the storm prior to heading off to bed, Empress Poor Purl.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Glad she's OK--I miss her posts! I always loved jumping on in the morning and reading her intelligent and well-thought out comments of the previous night.


They're like one-liners with brains. I miss them, too.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Similar to trying to carry on a rational conversation with the gifter who just keeps on gifting?


I'm sorry -- I don't know what you mean by that. Not familiar with that usage of gifter, or perhaps don't get the point. Can you explain?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It wouldn't play for me. But there are others that did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

On a down note, a small follow-up for whoever it was who didn't think there was much overt racism against this President. I'm not going to add anything more, just a link to the article:

*Right-Wing Facebook Page Calls For National Lynch President Obama Day (IMAGE)*
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/01/01/right-wing-facebook-page-obama-lynching/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Ack! You didn't say blues!!!! which I'd never considered part of jazz (I did say I was music history challenged). I love most blues.
> 
> Love ragtime too (which I find is also considered jazz) and Dixieland jazz (in small doses).


I lived with ragtime being played here for several years, until my son discovered Mozart. His piano teacher was amazed that he could play the most elaborate Scott Joplin pieces. Then dumb teacher introduced him to Mozart, and it's not so much fun here any more. Actually, son rarely plays anything on the piano any more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> On a down note, a small follow-up for whoever it was who didn't think there was much overt racism against this President. I'm not going to add anything more, just a link to the article:
> 
> *Right-Wing Facebook Page Calls For National Lynch President Obama Day (IMAGE)*
> http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/01/01/right-wing-facebook-page-obama-lynching/


They didn't even think there was hidden racism. Or at least that's what they pretend.

Is that kind of thing allowed on facebook? It's disgusting.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They didn't even think there was hidden racism. Or at least that's what they pretend.
> 
> Is that kind of thing allowed on facebook? It's disgusting.


Won't look, because if the picture is what I think it is, I want no part of it.

Racism, the word the left throws out when they have no other arguments. Reminds of Ms Perry's racists comments followed by the nodding heads and equally racists comments on Romney's new grandchild. But will anyone at MSN be fired? Doubt it, they enjoy being in the Ocult too much.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Won't look, because if the picture is what I think it is, I want no part of it.
> 
> Racism, the word the left throws out when they have no other arguments. Reminds of Ms Perry's racists comments followed by the nodding heads and equally racists comments on Romney's new grandchild. But will anyone at MSN be fired? Doubt it, they enjoy being in the Ocult too much.


oink oink


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Won't look, because if the picture is what I think it is, I want no part of it.
> 
> Racism, the word the left throws out when they have no other arguments. Reminds of Ms Perry's racists comments followed by the nodding heads and equally racists comments on Romney's new grandchild. But will anyone at MSN be fired? Doubt it, they enjoy being in the Ocult too much.


No picture, just the name of a Facebook page. Here, I'll copy and paste it for you:

*National Lynch President Obama Day*

No racism? What other arguments could you make for this? Other, whiter presidents may have been shot, but for this one they call for lynching.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you noticed how conspicuous the naysayers have been by their absence?


I have indeed. I was particularly interested to note that there have been NO responses whatsoever to my lengthy post listing all MY complaints about Obama and pointedly asking them where their outrage over same is.

Crickets.

Amazing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I have indeed. I was particularly interested to note that there have been NO responses whatsoever to my lengthy post listing all MY complaints about Obama and pointedly asking them where they're outrage over same is.
> 
> Crickets.
> 
> Amazing.


They can't read much, except for a few buzzwords that catch their (collective) eye. Otherwise they might learn something - can't have that happening.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I'm sorry -- I don't know what you mean by that. Not familiar with that usage of gifter, or perhaps don't get the point. Can you explain?


I was referring to that Knit person, I am trying to avoid thinking of her in her complete and total wholeness.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I have indeed. I was particularly interested to note that there have been NO responses whatsoever to my lengthy post listing all MY complaints about Obama and pointedly asking them where they're outrage over same is.
> 
> Crickets.
> 
> Amazing.


If those people acknowledged that or any of the other complaints that have sprouted here and there some would have to be honest enough to stop saying that we never have anything negative to say about the President.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I lived with ragtime being played here for several years, until my son discovered Mozart. His piano teacher was amazed that he could play the most elaborate Scott Joplin pieces. Then dumb teacher introduced him to Mozart, and it's not so much fun here any more. Actually, son rarely plays anything on the piano any more.


Uh oh. You got somethin' against Mozart? _*Mozart??!??*_

Just kidding. Personally I am pretty fond of Mozart, though generally prefer baroque.

How old is your son? He lives at home and no longer plays? NOW THAT is a shame!. No wonder you were in a bad mood yesterday. :lol: Do you play, Purl??


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I was referring to that Knit person, I am trying to avoid thinking of her in her complete and total wholeness.


Good. Make that a new year's resolution and your life will improve immeasurably.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> If those people acknowledged that or any of the other complaints that have sprouted here and there some would have to be honest enough to stop saying that we never have anything negative to say about the President.


LOL. Yes, that did occur to me. We called their bluff. "Uh oh, what now??"


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They didn't even think there was hidden racism. Or at least that's what they pretend.
> 
> Is that kind of thing allowed on facebook? It's disgusting.


Oh, man, you won't believe what's allowed on FB. It's beyond disgusting. They may have a woman CEO who can talk a bit like a feminist (if it's her book), but they allow the worst misogyny and pornography you can imagine. And yes, racism.

Though I went to the reported page and looked a bit and didn't find that particular image so maybe it was removed after all.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Uh oh. You got somethin' against Mozart? _*Mozart??!??*_
> 
> Just kidding. Personally I am pretty fond of Mozart, though generally prefer baroque.
> 
> How old is your son? He lives at home and no longer plays? NOW THAT is a shame!. No wonder you were in a bad mood yesterday. :lol: Do you play, Purl??


Nothing against Mozart. Or Bach. Or Haydn. They're just not as much fun as Ellington.

My son is supposedly here temporarily, but there have been so many reasons for him not to move out that it's been over a year since a rodent infestation sent him out of his former room (in a 6-bedroom apt. with 5 other guys).

He played all the time (not an exaggeration) in his teens and while away at college. Since then, hardly at all.

I don't exactly play. I will sit down with sheet music but end up just playing with the right hand. How about you?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They didn't even think there was hidden racism. Or at least that's what they pretend.
> 
> Is that kind of thing allowed on facebook? It's disgusting.


What a nasty page, it is almost as bad as that website that so low pulls info from.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

In Today's "Class Warfare News" installment, we have two shocking news items:



> *DOW Up 153-percent since 2009. Wages up 2-percent. *
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/31/stock-market-best-year-1997_n_4524267.html
> 
> *The Real Reason the Middle Class Is Dead*
> ...


The 2nd one touches on the reason I maintain that Republicans will never truly do what is required to stop illegal immigration: it benefits their friends and $$ benefactors too much. Molly Ivins put it succinctly. To stop illegal immigration cold, enforce the employment laws barring hiring of undocumented workers. No jobs? No illegal immigration. Period. And, in truth, with our current job market there's actually been a _negative_ flow across the Mexican border this year (maybe last too).

Net Migration from Mexico Falls to Zeroand Perhaps Less
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mexico-falls-to-zero-and-perhaps-less/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Good. Make that a new year's resolution and your life will improve immeasurably.


The only reason I am here is because they are not. 
I do get caught up in the doggie doo when they take me by surprise as when they invaded that "fixed income" thread. 
I back off as soon as I come to my senses, however, it just isn't worth trying to have a rational discussion with the severely mentally ill. Not that all of them are, I do believe that KPG is, though.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Won't look, because if the picture is what I think it is, I want no part of it.
> 
> Racism, the word the left throws out when they have no other arguments. Reminds of Ms Perry's racists comments followed by the nodding heads and equally racists comments on Romney's new grandchild. But will anyone at MSN be fired? Doubt it, they enjoy being in the Ocult too much.


Dear Jul.....................oink oink? The real pigs are Obamacultists like yourself that randomly throw out the race card but fail to condemn the racists comments regarding an adorable baby. You cultists cheer for racists and watch their shows. In fact, anyone that calls someone a pig because they point out their racism, is proving to all that they are the racists


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun, here's another article I just encountered that serves to validate your concerns, depending on what _you_ mean by "mentally ill." If you read that lengthy one I posted earlier, it does too, IMO.



> *The Conservative March Toward a Society of Sociopaths*
> http://www.forwardprogressives.com/the-conservative-march-toward-a-society-of-sociopaths/


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Obamacare in Action
An encouraging first-person account from the OTHER side of the equation (healthcare provider):



> *Obamacare news from the field:*
> Had to leave work early today. I caught Mrs. Aristus's bug and it's doing its work.
> 
> BUT!...
> ...


and downthread was this post (back to the consumer side):

*I am covered, but still scared to see a doctor...been 30 years since I have seen one. I am sure there is something wrong with me.*

The mind reels, and it's hard not to tear up.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, speak of the Devil....Look who's back?



lovethelake said:


> Dear Jul.....................oink oink? The real pigs are Obamacultists like yourself that randomly throw out the race card but fail to condemn the racists comments regarding an adorable baby. You cultists cheer for racists and watch their shows. In fact, anyone that calls someone a pig because they point out their racism, is proving to all that they are the racists


 :roll:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Dear Jul.....................oink oink? The real pigs are Obamacultists like yourself that randomly throw out the race card but fail to condemn the racists comments regarding an adorable baby. You cultists cheer for racists and watch their shows. In fact, anyone that calls someone a pig because they point out their racism, is proving to all that they are the racists


What makes you think she even saw the racist comments you say we cheer for? I know I didn't. We don't all get talking points every day, as you seem to do. Anyway, you obviously wouldn't recognize a racist if he came up to you wearing his white sheet. Did you even read the cute little title of a new Facebook page I sent you? Okay, here it is again:

*National Lynch President Obama Day*

No racism? What other arguments could you make for this? Other, whiter presidents may have been shot, but for this one they call for lynching.

In fact, it seems as though the only things you're capable of reading are single words, like "racism" or "oink." Sentences are too much for you to handle. Entire messages are out of the question. As you and I are about to prove with this one.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> jelun, here's another article I just encountered that serves to validate your concerns, depending on what _you_ mean by "mentally ill." If you read that lengthy one I posted earlier, it does too, IMO.


http://www.forwardprogressives.com/the-conservative-march-toward-a-society-of-sociopaths/

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Obamacare in Action
> An encouraging first-person account from the OTHER side of the equation (healthcare provider):


 Wait. You left out the part where the doctor says he has to retire from medicine.



> and downthread was this post (back to the consumer side):
> 
> *I am covered, but still scared to see a doctor...been 30 years since I have seen one. I am sure there is something wrong with me.*
> 
> The mind reels, and it's hard not to tear up.


Keith Olbermann used to have as a guest a woman who set up and ran free 1- or 2-day health clinics (this was when Obamacare was just a twinkle in the eye), traveling around to different states, and they found people with diabetes and serious heart problems who had no idea they were that sick. I hope the woman you quote takes advantage of her coverage.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wait. You left out the part where the doctor says he has to retire from medicine.


Oh! How could I be so stupid?!



> Keith Olbermann used to have as a guest a woman who set up and ran free 1- or 2-day health clinics (this was when Obamacare was just a twinkle in the eye), traveling around to different states, and they found people with diabetes and serious heart problems who had no idea they were that sick. I hope the woman you quote takes advantage of her coverage.


And people standing in line days in advance. They served thousands and always could've served thousands more. Yeah, I remember it well. Miss Olbermann.

Purl -- you're getting a little more weather than you were expecting, it sounds like. Take care.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, I promised no more posts on this subject (or music, and already violated that one), but this is just too interesting:



> *Fractal Enlightenment - 13-Year Old Replicates Fibonacci Sequence to Harness Solar Power*
> 
> The future of our planet lies in the hands of our children and when a 13-year old boy, Aidan Dwyer, uncovers the mystery of how trees get enough of sunlight in a crowded forest and applies it to solar energy you know that all is not lost.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And people standing in line days in advance. They served thousands and always could've served thousands more. Yeah, I remember it well. Miss Olbermann.
> 
> Purl -- you're getting a little more weather than you were expecting, it sounds like. Take care.


What, me worry?

It's barely covering the ground right now, and I hear the tinkling - er, booming - sound of snow removal vehicles already.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, I promised no more posts on this subject (or music, and already violated that one), but this is just too interesting:


It was. What a smart kid. Do we make enough solar panels to test his hypothesis?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What, me worry?
> 
> It's barely covering the ground right now, and I hear the tinkling - er, booming - sound of snow removal vehicles already.


They are expecting some coastal flooding again Empress Purl. Stay snuggly and warm!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You folks are quite entertaining tonight, as usual. 
I am too tired to respond even though I have plowed through (pun intended) most of a response I suddenly NEED to go to bed. Dream my most recent recurring dream and resolve whatever issue is making me continue to repair those broken toys all night. 
Sleep tight.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You folks are quite entertaining tonight, as usual.
> I am too tired to respond even though I have plowed through (pun intended) most of a response I suddenly NEED to go to bed. Dream my most recent recurring dream and resolve whatever issue is making me continue to repair those broken toys all night.
> Sleep tight.


You too, jelun. Try a little aroma therapy in your bedroom.
Lavender and rosemary is a soothing one.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What, me worry?
> 
> It's barely covering the ground right now, and I hear the tinkling - er, booming - sound of snow removal vehicles already.


We actually hit the 40's last week, but are back in the arctic blast again. -20 was the high today. We will have freezing rain tomorrow which isn't the best to get around in, and then back down to the sub zero temps. They say it will be colder. We have been stuck with this for a long time.
But it isn't Hercules that is after us. Stay safe.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> On a down note, a small follow-up for whoever it was who didn't think there was much overt racism against this President. I'm not going to add anything more, just a link to the article:
> 
> *Right-Wing Facebook Page Calls For National Lynch President Obama Day (IMAGE)*
> http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/01/01/right-wing-facebook-page-obama-lynching/


Racism itself is bad enough, but do you really need to direct people to yet another example of it? Just how sick are you?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I have indeed. I was particularly interested to note that there have been NO responses whatsoever to my lengthy post listing all MY complaints about Obama and pointedly asking them where their outrage over same is.
> 
> Crickets.
> 
> Amazing.


They're all over in the landfill topic called 'Fixed Income". You oughta check it out. The vitriolic element would warm the cockles of your heart, if you happen to have one.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> They are expecting some coastal flooding again Empress Purl. Stay snuggly and warm!


1. I don't live near the coast. My neighborhood wasn't even touched by Sandy. 2. My landlord gives too much heat. His three daughters and SILs and their numerous children live in the building, and he takes really good care of them. I am snugglier and warmer than I'd like to be.

Thanks for caring about me. I'm worried about you. Why did you ever move up to the Arctic Circle? It sounds awful where you are. I don't even know what advice to give you. Do some baking so you have reason to keep the oven on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> We actually hit the 40's last week, but are back in the arctic blast again. -20 was the high today. We will have freezing rain tomorrow which isn't the best to get around in, and then back down to the sub zero temps. They say it will be colder. We have been stuck with this for a long time.
> But it isn't Hercules that is after us. Stay safe.


Who or what is Hercules?

Freezing rain is a horror. I hope you don't get too much. Isn't -20 too cold for any kind of rain.

Good night, Patty. Roll yourself in quilts, put on a nightcap, and dream of the summer.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You folks are quite entertaining tonight, as usual.
> I am too tired to respond even though I have plowed through (pun intended) most of a response I suddenly NEED to go to bed. Dream my most recent recurring dream and resolve whatever issue is making me continue to repair those broken toys all night.
> Sleep tight.


What a marvelous dream, though I bet to you it feels frustrating. I hope you had a restful night, even with all that labor.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They're all over in the landfill topic called 'Fixed Income". You oughta check it out. The vitriolic element would warm the cockles of your heart, if you happen to have one.


Grow the heck up, MIB. Figure out where the OFF switch is.


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## sallycarr (Nov 5, 2013)

A mom from Alabama has been railroaded by the Obama administrations implementation of Obamacare, and now she's taken pen to paper to tell everyone her story. Here's her open letter to anyone who will listen.

December 22, 2013

The Affordable Care Act is leaving my children uninsured as of January  so how can this law have the word Care in it?

An Open Letter to the Obama Administration and American Citizens:

My familys journey with securing our new insurance under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) started on October 1, 2013. I have decided to write this letter to let the American people know what it has been like for us. We are a family of four, with two little boys ages seven years old and three years old. My husband and I have had full time jobs for 6 years and 13 years respectively. We have been with the same two companies for those years. We are a middle class family; we own our three bedroom two bath house, we own two cars, and previously provided our own insurance for the four of us. We have coverage through Individual Blue from Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alabama until 12/31/13. Our premiums have been $380.00 a month, which also included dental coverage for all four of us.

On October, 1, 2013 we received our letters like other Alabamians about our new premiums and plans for 2014 from Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) of Alabama. When I opened our letter to say I had sticker shock was an understatement. Our premiums for the Blue Saver Silver would now be $753.26. This included the ACA tax but did not include the additional $75.00 we would need to pay in order to keep dental for me and my husband. So we would need to pay total $828.26 to keep health and dental insurance for the four of us. This payment is roughly $64.00 less than what we pay for our mortgage each month. I was outraged that anyone thought we could afford this. Sure we have some savings, but with that price tag we would whittle it down to almost nothing very quickly. I consider savings as a rainy day fund, a start to saving for the kids college, our retirement, etc. I never dreamed in a million years we would need to use it to pay our insurance premiums each month  how in the world could this help the economy too?

Throughout the month of October we read everything we could on what our plan would cover, and tried to get the information we needed about the ACA. I was also blown away when I realized that my sons medical care, he has Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), would cost us so much more out of pocket than it was currently costing us. My son has to go to his doctor every other month for his care. If we need to see a therapist we do that monthly, so you see on top of the premiums there are other out of pocket cost we have to factor in. He is also on medication that he takes daily. His medicine is a life saver for him and helps him function like a normal seven year old, without it he cant focus, his grades slip and his mind literally goes back to the mind of a three or four year old. When he was first put on his medicine his reading went up 20 points and he went from writing one to two sentences to paragraphs, all in the course of a week. He is a straight A student and very bright, but without the proper medical care that could slip away from him. Under our new plan for 2014 we would need to pay a $55.00 co-pay, and then it would be covered at 80 percent once we reached his deductible, which would be $2,000 individual $4,000 family. Out of pocket max numbers are $6,350 individual and $12,700 family. All of this is enough to make anyones head spin. We were then forced to look at other options as none of this was affordable for our family.

I started to dig deeper into healthcare.gov. I was hearing all the horror stories through the news about the subpar website. I was reading right off their healthcare.gov Facebook page about other peoples terrible experiences trying to get coverage. Then the government announces that they are going to be working on the site and making it a better experience as well as making it more secure. They had already had three years to make this happen but they said would need the month of November to get it running right. So I waited patiently for them to get the site running so I could see if we would qualify for the subsidy and continue our health insurance through that route.

December 6, 2013 I went to healthcare.gov and started our application. The process took me over two hours to complete. Once it was completed it came back with our results. The results were that my husband and I qualified. That my three year old qualified for All Kids and that my seven year old did not qualify for anything through the exchange (ACA). I was so confused, how could a seven year old not qualify for a subsidy? I was also confused on why they wanted me to enroll one of my children in All Kids? So, I called the number they provided to speak to a representative. I was on hold for 20 minutes when a woman answered and offered to help me with the results. She told me that it is coming back that my seven year old son did not qualify and the only thing I could do was to file an appeal. I asked her a few more questions about how this could have happened, and I was told she does not know and that all I can do is file an appeal. She was reading her responses to me right off of a chart that I am sure they are given. So, I ended my conversation with her and proceeded to try to wrap my head around what was happening.

Obamacare-this-is-going-to-hurtI decided to call back, this time I waited 15 minutes and spoke to a very nice gentleman who seemed to have an understanding for how the system was working. He looked up the results and said this cant be right, lets start over and do an application over the phone. So again I went through the application process. The results came back the exact same, we all qualified for something except my seven year old son. The gentleman could not understand how this could be happening and assured me it had to be a glitch in the system. He placed me on hold so he could speak with his supervisor on how to fix this error. I waited several minutes and when he came back he said there was nothing more they could do tonight. He said we are sending your application to two different departments and that one of the departments would get back to me through a phone call with a fix to this problem. He also told me it could take 2-5 days but that I would receive a phone call when they had closed my case.

So I waited until Tuesday December 10, 2013, which was day four and called them back. I was then told it would be 2-5 business days and if I had not heard from them at that time to call back. So that is what I did, I waited till 9:00 pm on that Friday December 13, 2013 with no phone call. I called Sunday December 15th, 2013 and spoke with my 3rdsupervisor who told me they were very sorry that I had not received a phone call and they were messaging the two departments to give me a call the following day. He also said to go ahead and file with All Kids in my state because even though they send that information to them, they have no idea when they will receive it. So Monday I went and applied for All Kids for my children, it was a similar application to the healthcare.gov site. I called them to verify that they received my application and was told they cannot access it till sometime in January. They said once they could access it that they would be in touch and if the kids qualified the coverage would retro act to January 1, 2014. So that was a little bit of good news.

So here we are December 22, 2013, the day before the December 23rd deadline to sign up through the Health Insurance Marketplaces Exchange. I decide I will call one last time to see what they can tell me about coverage, since I never received a phone call after my last conversation with a supervisor. I waited on hold for 1 hour and 15 minutes. I asked to speak with a supervisor and I was transferred. The supervisor pulled my file and was talking to me when she must have accidentally pressed a button and we got disconnected. I thought for sure she would call me back. That is one of the first things they ask for is your phone number. I did not receive a call back, so I call back and have to be placed on hold again to speak to someone. I waited another hour and a half before I get connected with a supervisor. She pulls up my file and tells me there is nothing they can do and I have to wait the 90 days they have to contact me through the appeals process. The supervisor tells me that this whole time I have been told wrong by numerous people and that I should have been called back but that the two departments could do nothing for me. I just have to wait the 90 days. I asked her, so yet again an error, due to no fault of my own, has occurred all these times I have been calling and speaking with people and no one can really do anything? She said yes that is correct, I am sorry you have been told something different but that is all I can tell you.

I have never been treated so poorly by any insurance company in my whole life. I have never experienced such terrible customer service in all my years on this earth. I cant imagine how long a company would last in this country if they followed the same protocol as the ACA/Health Insurance Marketplace does. Most companies can fix a glitch in their systems pretty easily, or can connect you to someone who can. Not the ACA/ Health Insurance Marketplace, you spend all that time on hold to just be told, so sorry but you have to wait for someone to get back to you in a 90 day time span.

What is the most sickening thing to me is that we have been forced into the Health Insurance Marketplaces Exchange. We wanted to continue our coverage through BSBC and pay as we always had been. But, we found out that option would not be affordable under the new Act, which is how we were forced into the Exchange. Furthermore, not only were we forced into the Exchange, but then forced again to submit an application to ALL Kids for our children. I just dont understand how we go from being hard working middle class family who provides everything for our family to where we are today. I feel like everything that my husband and I have worked hard for is for nothing. I pray each night that we will get something resolved with our glitch in the system so our children will have health insurance coverage in January and by the time I have to purchase my sons $400 a month ADHD medicine.

I really dont know how our government can allow this to be taking place. What if something happens and one of my boys breaks an arm, or God forbid something worse? They dont have insurance, so I guess we will then be paying the hospital monthly if that happens. We are almost completely debit free currently and now all I see is very large medical bills in our future until the government can fix the issues with the ACA/Exchange. I would really like them to rename the Affordable Care Act, because from where I am sitting it is anything but affordable or caring for my family.

Sincerely,

Karri Kinder

Read more at http://eaglerising.com/3950/alabama-moms-obamacare-horror-story-open-letter/#UCE7USiD2y4KGFuq.99


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

READ THIS! VERY TRUE AND INFORMATIVE!! A MUST READ!!


Global View 

Stephens: Obama's Envy Problem

Inequality is a problem when the rich get richer at the expense of the poor. That's not happening in America.



By Bret Stephens 

Dec. 30, 2013 7:27 p.m. ET


As he came to the end of his awful year Barack Obama gave an awful speech. The president thinks America has inequality issues. What it haswhat he hasis an envy problem.

I'll get to the point in a moment, but first a word about the speech's awfulness. To illustrate the evils of income inequality, the president said this: 

"Ordinary folks can't write massive campaign checks or hire high-priced lobbyists and lawyers to secure policies that tilt the playing field in their favor at everyone else's expense. And so people get the bad taste that the system is rigged, and that increases cynicism and polarization, and it decreases the political participation that is a requisite part of our system of self-government."

This is coming from the man who signs legislation, such as Dodd-Frank, that only high-priced lawyers can understand; who, according to the Guardian newspaper, has spent much of 2013 on a "record-breaking fundraising spree," making "30 separate visits to wealthy donors," at "more than twice the rate of the president's two-term predecessors." 

In my last column, comparing Jane Fonda with Pope Francis, I wrote that liberalism was haunted by its hypocrisy. Consider Mr. Obama's campaign-finance pieties as Exhibit B.

Now about inequality. In 1835 Alexis de Tocqueville noticed what might be called the paradox of equality: As social conditions become more equal, the more people resent the inequalities that remain.

"Democratic institutions awaken and foster a passion for equality which they can never entirely satisfy," Tocqueville wrote. "This complete equality eludes the grasp of the people at the very moment they think they have grasped it . . . the people are excited in the pursuit of an advantage, which is more precious because it is not sufficiently remote to be unknown or sufficiently near to be enjoyed."

One result: "Democratic institutions strongly tend to promote the feeling of envy." Another: "A depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to attempt to lower the powerful to their own level and reduces men to prefer equality in slavery to inequality with freedom."

That is the background by which the current hand-wringing over inequality must be judged. Inequality is not a problem simply because the rich get richer faster than the poor get richer. It's a problem only when the rich get richer at the expense of the poor. 

Mr. Obama tried to prove that in his speech, comparing present-day income with that halcyon year of 1979: "The top 10 percent no longer takes in one-third of our incomeit now takes half," he said, suggesting that the rich are eating a larger share of the national pie. "Whereas in the past, the average CEO made about 20 to 30 times the income of the average worker, today's CEO now makes 273 times more. And meanwhile, a family in the top one percent has a net worth 288 times higher than the typical family, which is a record for this country."

Here is a factual error, marred by an analytical error, compounded by a moral error. It's the top 20% that take in just over half of aggregate income, according to the Census Bureau, not the top 10%. That figure is essentially unchanged since the mid-1990s, when Bill Clinton was president. And it isn't dramatically different from 1979, when the top fifth took in 44% of aggregate income.

Besides which, so what? In 1979 the mean household income of the bottom 20% was $4,006. By 2012, it was $11,490. That's an increase of 186%. For the middle class, the increase was 211%. For the top fifth it's 320%. The richer have outpaced the poorer in growing their incomes, just as runners will outpace joggers who will, in turn, outpace walkers. But, as James Taylor might say, the walking man walks. 

As it is, to whom except the envious should it matter that the boss now makes a lot more, provided you, too, also make more? Class-consciousness has always been a fact of American life, but rarely is it about how the poor, or even the middle class, feel toward the very rich. It has been about how the professional classlawyers, journalists, administrators, academicsfeel toward the financial class. It's what Volvo America thinks about S-class America.

That idiot you knew freshman year, always fondling a lacrosse stick, before he became the head of his fraternityhis bonus last year was how much?

The moral greatness of capitalism rests in the fact that it is the only economic system where one person's gain can be another's alsowhere Steve Jobs's billions are his shareholders' thousands. Capitalism cultivates a sense of admiration where envy would otherwise rule in a zero-sum economic system. It's what, for the past 60 years, has blunted the democratic tendency toward envy in the U.S. and distinguished its free-market democracy from the social democracies of Europe. It's what draws people to this country.

Somewhere in the rubble of Mr. Obama's musings on inequality there was a better speech on economic mobility. Then again, under Mr. Obama the median income of the poorest Americans has declined in absolute terms, to $11,490 in 2012 from $11,552 in 2009, at the height of the recession. Chalk it up as another instance of Mr. Obama being the cause of the very problems he aspires to address.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

A MUST READ - GOOD INFORMATION!

Tom Coburn: The Year Washington Fled Reality

'Message discipline' can win elections but is not a healthy way to run a country.
By Tom Coburn 

Dec. 30, 2013 7:06 p.m. ET

The past year may go down not only as the least productive ever in Washington but as one of the worst for the republic.

In both the executive branch and Congress, Americans witnessed an unwinding of the country's founding principles and of their government's most basic responsibilities. The rule of law gave way to the rule of rulers. And the rule of realityin which politicians are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts, as Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan liked to saygave way to some politicians' belief that they were entitled to both their own opinions and their own facts. It's no wonder the institutions of government barely function. 

On health care, President Obama oversaw a disastrous and, sadly, dishonest launch of his signature achievement. The president gave an exception to employers, but not to individuals, without any legal basis, and made other adjustments according to his whim. Even more troubling was his message over the past three years that if you like your plan, you can keep it, and that if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. We now know that the administration was aware that these claims were false, yet Mr. Obama continued to make them, repeatedly. 

In 2014, millions of Americans will likely discover that the president's claim that the average family will save $2,500 on health insurance was equally disconnected from reality.

The president apologized in part for his statements, but his actions reveal the extent to which he has conformed to, rather than challenged, the political culture that as a presidential candidate he vowed to reform. 

The culture that Mr. Obama campaigned against, the old kind of politics, teaches politicians that repetition and "message discipline"never straying from using the same slogans and talking pointscan create reality, regardless of the facts. Message discipline works if the goal is to win an election or achieve a short-term political goal. But saying that something is true doesn't make it so. When a misleading message ultimately clashes with reality, the result is dissonance and conflict. In a republic, deception is destructive. Without truth there can be no trust. Without trust there can be no consent. And without consent we invite paralysis, if not chaos.

Taking unilateral, extralegal actionlike delaying the employer mandate for a year when Mr. Obama realized the trouble it would cause for businessesis part of a pattern for this administration. Immigration and border-security laws that might displease certain constituencies if enforced? Ignore the laws. Unhappy that a deep-water drilling moratorium was struck down in court? Reimpose it anyway. Internal Revenue Service agents using the power of the state to harass political enemies? Deny and then stonewall. Unhappy with the pace of Senate confirmations for nominees? Ignore the Constitution and appoint people anyway and claim that the Senate is not in session.

The Obama administration hardly has a monopoly on contributing to Washington's dysfunction. Congress more than earned its 6% national approval rating, a historic low.

Congress's most significant action this year was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's decision to undo 200 years of precedent that requires a supermajority to change Senate rules. To speed the approval of executive appointments and judicial nominations, Sen. Reid resorted to raw political power, forcing a vote (52-48) that allows the Senate majority to change the rules whenever it wants. In a republic, if majorities can change laws or rules however they please, you're on the road to life with no rules and no laws.

The supermajority safeguard that prevented senators from destroying the institution in which they serve is now largely gone. Gone also are members of the majority who understood the need to protect minority rights. There are no more Robert Byrds to quote Cicero, who said, "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power."

Instead, we have a majority leader who has appointed himself a Rules Committee of one. Referring to the right of the minority to offer changes to bills under consideration, Mr. Reid said: "The amendment days are over." Like President Obama, Mr. Reid is great at message discipline but weak on the rule of law and reality. His narrative about Republican obstruction of appointees is a diversion from his own war against minority rights. Even before his wrecking of the supermajority tradition, Mr. Reid had already used Senate rules to cut off debate and prevent the minority from offering amendments 78 timesmore than all other Senate majority leaders combined.

On the budget, Democrats and Republicans alike are celebrating the avoidance of another nihilistic government shutdown as a great victory. The choice to not commit mass political suicide may be a step toward sanity, but it isn't reform. Solving the problemfixing entitlements, reforming the tax code and consolidating the government's $200 billion in duplicative spendingwould be reform. Yet as my annual Wastebook report showed, even in this year of budget-sequestration anguish, the federal government still managed to fund the study of romance novels, provide military benefits to the Fort Hood shooter and even help the State Department buy itself Facebook FB +0.22% fans.

If Congress wants to get serious, and be taken seriously, it can start by doing its job. It can debate and pass individual appropriations billsa task that Congress has not completed in eight years. And perhaps Congress can cut some of the stupidity in government spending. The House deserves some credit for tryingit passed four appropriations billsbut the Senate deserves none. Mr. Reid did not pass a single appropriations bill in 2013, thus shielding vulnerable members of his party from having to make tough votes.

How the nation's leaders perform in Washington is a reflection of the country, and culture, they represent. Moral relativism and postmodern disregard of truth has been promoted by academia for decades; sometimes it seems that the best students of that thinking can be found in Washington. We live in a time when laws and rules are defined however the holders of power decree, and "messaging" is paramount, regardless how far the message is from reality.

The coming year presents an opportunity to Americans who hope for better. Despite Washington's dysfunction, "We the People" still call the shots and can demand a course correction. In 2014, here's a message worth considering: If you don't like the rulers you have, you don't have to keep them.

Mr. Coburn, a Republican, is a senator from Oklahoma.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> A MUST READ - GOOD INFORMATION!
> 
> ...


Thanks to people like Tom Coburn, who is mildly insane. You keep thinking it's "good information"; it won't make you any less informed than you already are.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> The only reason I am here is because they are not.
> I do get caught up in the doggie doo when they take me by surprise as when they invaded that "fixed income" thread.
> I back off as soon as I come to my senses, however, it just isn't worth trying to have a rational discussion with the severely mentally ill. Not that all of them are, I do believe that KPG is, though.


That's not true and you know it. If you really want to be where we are not, you would stay on LOLL and POV exclusively. You would not make your home on a thread that was started by a conservative.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sallycarr said:


> A mom from Alabama has been railroaded by the Obama administrations implementation of Obamacare, and now she's taken pen to paper to tell everyone her story. Here's her open letter to anyone who will listen.
> 
> December 22, 2013
> 
> ...


This really is a horror story, and I hope she gets some relief soon.

Some states are doing better helping applicants than others; these are primarily the states that have taken help from the feds. I believe Alabama is *not* one of them. I think the people who answer the phones are state, not federal, government employees, and if the governor wanted things to work better, he could have made them work better.

Then, again, this may turn out to be one of the many, many fake stories that Fox, which owns the WSJ, has tried to feed the public, while never admitting they're fake even when the people supposedly telling the stories have said they weren't true.

Wait, I just looked at the website it came from. One of those registering-our-guns-is-taking-away-our-rights (to kill kindergarten children) websites. Now I know the story is a fake.

If I were the mom, I would stop giving my kid the meds. There's been an explosion of ADHD diagnoses, encouraged by the drug manufacturers. But this is nothing to complain about. Pharma has a right to take your money, even for fake diagnoses and for medicines that are sometimes more harmful than helpful.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY TRUE AND INFORMATIVE!! A MUST READ!!
> 
> ...


Yes it is.

But how do you know it's true? Have you found similar opinions published in unbiased publications?

BTW, I couldn't read this; I have a headache. Would you write up a summary for me so I know what it says.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS! VERY TRUE AND INFORMATIVE!! A MUST READ!!
> 
> ...


Well lookee here. Another op-ed working to make WSJ vie with Fox News for most inaccurate and biased commentary available.

I found this yesterday:



> *Krugman Nails WSJ Pulitzer Winner For Misleading Inequality Claim *
> 
> Disinformation on Inequality
> 
> ...


The snipped part was a little technical for me, and somehow I don't think anyone here is all that interested either, but let's just say that my opinion that "Krugman is _always_ right remains unchallenged. :XD:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

LL, Don't look now, but your ignorance is showing........AGAIN! 
You never post anything but psycho babble. So don't bother...no one reads it. Same goes for you soloweygirl.

sallycarr, for every ACA horror story you can find, someone else can find a ACA success story. So, some are unhappy with ACA, and some are thrilled with it. You just have to hope you are going to be one of the happy ones.

Who ever said life was fair???? Maybe something should have been done about the high cost of Med. insurance a long time ago! The insurance companies have been gouging the people forever. That's nothing new. 

My personal opinion has always been that those who have always had insurance have been paying through the nose for those who have chosen not to have insurance. For the simple fact that they know they will not be turned away from the hospital when they go to the emergency room. And if they can't/won't pay, someone has to. 

And you needn't jump on my back and tell me about all those disabled who can't work, and can't afford insurance. I'll bet you there are more physically capable people on disability than there are those who choose to work. Yes, there are disabled people out there who need the help..... but far too many who are just using the system because it's a pretty darn easy way to live. Hey....no work, and free money!

Again I say, who ever said life was fair? My husband and I have had Med. insurance for the 39 yrs we've been married. The price has gone steadily up over the years. Our payments are comparable to what Karri Kinder's have become. 
She has actually been very lucky over the years to have had a lower cost insurance. Not everyone has had that good luck.

My husband and I payed off the mortgage on our home July 2013. We own our car and pickup outright. We don't owe the banks or anyone else a dime. And we also had the money to put our daughter thought college, and pay for the other daughters wedding. We have always saved our money. We have a beautiful house on 7 acres, for which we pay all the bills. And we did all this while paying for Med. insurance for 39 years. 

To some, I may sound hard hearted, but I'm not. My husband and I grew up with nothing, and only have what we have because we've earned it, and saved it. I expect the same from my children, and am happy to say, they both are doing well. 

Now you know what it means when someone says, "Save for a rainy day." That rainy day may be the ability to pay your insurance. It can be done. 

I think the diff. between my family, and others, is that they live for the moment. They buy things they can't afford, be it all the new high tech items, or boats, or expensive cars. They max out there credit cards, with little intention of ever paying the money they owe. I know families who are in debt up to their ears because they feel the need to give their children everything they want. Then can't figure out how those children turned out to be deadbeats, still living in mom & dad's basement, at the age of 33. With mom & dad wondering how they are going to make it through their retirement years, as they have spent/given all there savings to their kids. And how many of you think the kids will be taking care of mom & dad in their old age???? No one? That's right.

So....now you know why 'I' think the world is in the mess it's in right now. A whole lot of people seem to have lost all common sense. No one follows the rules....Not the government,.....not big business, (how do you think most CEO's got rich?),......Not some parents......not their grown children who don't even know how to earn a living. 

Our Country is what "WE" all have made it, this huge whining mess......so we only have ourselves to blame.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That's not true and you know it. If you really want to be where we are not, you would stay on LOLL and POV exclusively. You would not make your home on a thread that was started by a conservative.


You don't get to determine where I post. 
**** **** *******.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This really is a horror story, and I hope she gets some relief soon.
> 
> Some states are doing better helping applicants than others; these are primarily the states that have taken help from the feds. I believe Alabama is *not* one of them. I think the people who answer the phones are state, not federal, government employees, and if the governor wanted things to work better, he could have made them work better.
> 
> ...


I didn't read the link, if this mother truly has kids with significant ADHD, she should apply for disability for them and get medicare and medicaid.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I didn't read the link, if this mother truly has kids with significant ADHD, she should apply for disability for them and get medicare and medicaid.


You were right not to read the link. It was one of those "you can have my guns only if you pry them out of the cold, dead hands of the kids playing on my lawn" sites.

I don't believe the mom or her kids exist, so they probably can't get disability for ADHD.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> On a down note, a small follow-up for whoever it was who didn't think there was much overt racism against this President. I'm not going to add anything more, just a link to the article:
> 
> *Right-Wing Facebook Page Calls For National Lynch President Obama Day (IMAGE)*
> 
> http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/01/01/right-wing-facebook-page-obama-lynching/


So it turns out that ANONYMOUS has taken over that website, you really should check it out.

I can't put LOL, my son in law walking in interupted me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here we go!

http://www.facebook.com/Americathenextgenerations


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> So it turns out that ANONYMOUS has taken over that website, you really should check it out.
> 
> I can't put LOL, my son in law walking in interupted me.


Awesome.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl, I hope you can make some sense of this. 
I wrote it last night and then was too tired to double check it prior to shipping it out. 
It is a follow up to your post in response to LTL about the use of the racism accusations. 
******************************************
Excellent point, Empress. I see so many bigoted (the word I continue to prefer) comments every day that I have no means of keeping track of where I see them or who says them. 
I rarely see anyone here call people on racial insensitivity of any kind. It seems that I have had this sort of discussion more often 
than any accusatory chit chat.

IRL, I get the 'I'm not a racist, but..." thing to listen to. I find that annoying mainly because I don't understand it; if a person thinks that they are cleaner, smarter, a faster worker, a better parent... they don't say that loud and proud. If someone is going to so far as to say the "but I have to watch every move they make in the store" call it out and own it. If a person doesn't own it, I give it to them.

This is LTL, isn't it, Poor Purl, who you are addressing?
I have no doubt that she recognizes every bigot she comes across. 


Poor Purl said:


> What makes you think she even saw the racist comments you say we cheer for? I know I didn't. We don't all get talking points every day, as you seem to do. Anyway, you obviously wouldn't recognize a racist if he came up to you wearing his white sheet. Did you even read the cute little title of a new Facebook page I sent you? Okay, here it is again:
> 
> *National Lynch President Obama Day*
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Some Obamacare news:



> *The health care exchanges could have saved this man's life*
> by Laura Clawson
> 
> snip
> ...


So Gov. Perry will have blood on his hands, being directly responsible for 9000 deaths in Texas each year over his pig-headed, cruel and personally self-aggrandizing decision not to expand Medicaid under Obamacare.

Just can't let that bi-racial guy get ANY credit for ANYthing. Better to let people die, the very people whose welfare you're responsible for helping.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Some Obamacare news:
> 
> So Gov. Perry will have blood on his hands, being directly responsible for 9000 deaths in Texas each year over his pig-headed, cruel and personally self-aggrandizing decision not to expand Medicaid under Obamacare.
> 
> Just can't let that bi-racial guy get ANY credit for ANYthing. Better to let people die, the very people whose welfare you're responsible for helping.


Rick Perry probably can't remember which department oversees medical care in the US. You know, like the conservatives here who think it is the IRS.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

This is waaay off-topic, but just look at what some jerk in Wisconsin wants to do:



> *Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin GOP Senator, Fights For A Seven-Day Workweek*
> 
> WASHINGTON -- Wisconsin state Sen. Glenn Grothman (R) is attempting to roll back one of the state's progressive labor laws, arguing that workers should be allowed to work without a day off if they so choose.
> 
> ...


For anyone not familiar with what's going on in Wisconsin and Michigan, please consider starting to pay very close attention. They are literally dismantling democracy in huge leaps and bounds and what they're leaving in its wake is none too pretty. I've heard that Detroit in particular is a template for what ALEC and the Republicons want to do wherever possible, as soon as possible. Oh, and North Carolina is not beacon of hope either these days, but I think they're going to be in for a surprise in 2014.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Rick Perry probably can't remember which department oversees medical care in the US. You know, like the conservatives here who think it is the IRS.


LOL. Good point. That boy needs some serious antioxidant therapy!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> LOL. Good point. That boy needs some serious antioxidant therapy!


Other than the possible connection of the inmates' health care there is little to connect this to the thread. I just wanted to enjoy it for a few moments longer so here it is.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/03/idaho-prison/4304689/

Private enterprise can just do everything better, can't they?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Who or what is Hercules?
> 
> Freezing rain is a horror. I hope you don't get too much. Isn't -20 too cold for any kind of rain.
> 
> Good night, Patty. Roll yourself in quilts, put on a nightcap, and dream of the summer.


LOL, Purl. Hercules is what they named the winter storm that is hitting the northeast.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Other than the possible connection of the inmates' health care there is little to connect this to the thread. I just wanted to enjoy it for a few moments longer so here it is.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/03/idaho-prison/4304689/
> 
> Private enterprise can just do everything better, can't they?


Butch Otter.... lol! Thanks for sharing. I needed a good laugh tonight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> LOL. Good point. That boy needs some serious antioxidant therapy!


Or a simple brain installation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Here we go!
> 
> http://www.facebook.com /Americathenextgenerations


Wonderful! I may develop a fondness for goats.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Poor Purl, I hope you can make some sense of this.
> I wrote it last night and then was too tired to double check it prior to shipping it out.
> It is a follow up to your post in response to LTL about the use of the racism accusations.
> ******************************************
> ...


Oh, yes, I was writing to LTL. I don't think she recognizes bigots for the simple reason that she seems not to believe they exist. Maybe they don't in VA (sarcasm here), but they certainly exist everywhere else.

In fact, I know what my biases are, and I admit I'm bigoted against a particular group (which I won't confess to, except to say that the Obamas are not in that group). I'm ashamed of it, and may have to work on it, but that is one serious imperfection I have.

LTL, on the other hand, thinks she is all sweetness and light; in fact, she won't admit that anyone on her "side" is bigoted. I wish they'd admit to having some kind of fault, bc it might make them more human and not such a waste of time. As you may have noticed, she never read that msg you referring to here, as I predicted.

They're obviously ashamed of being bigots because they won't admit to it. But in their circles it's acceptable, not frowned on, so they feel justified.

Yeccchh!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL, Purl. Hercules is what they named the winter storm that is hitting the northeast.


I guess I haven't been keeping up with the news.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, yes, I was writing to LTL. I don't think she recognizes bigots for the simple reason that she seems not to believe they exist. Maybe they don't in VA (sarcasm here), but they certainly exist everywhere else.
> 
> In fact, I know what my biases are, and I admit I'm bigoted against a particular group (which I won't confess to, except to say that the Obamas are not in that group). I'm ashamed of it, and may have to work on it, but that is one serious imperfection I have.
> 
> ...


Using bigot instead of racist is just a childish 'code' word because when you falsely called a person a racist you were challenged.

I would still contend that MSNBC is one of the most bigoted and racists networks out there. They mocked Ronmey's grandchild, but that is okay in your book.

I really do feel sorry for you if you live around such hateful people as you have falsely accused me of being. Maybe you feel the need to be a victim, which justifies your need to falsely label and attack others. I choose to not associate with such people, why give them the attention they crave? Why subject myself to their negativity which is not healthy? Why go around looking for people to attack, you are not going to change them. Probably your caustic 'in your face' lifestyle only reinforces their beliefs. My guess is that some people are just tired of political correctness and their ability to speak freely and they are angry about that and maybe lash out like you do.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, yes, I was writing to LTL. I don't think she recognizes bigots for the simple reason that she seems not to believe they exist. Maybe they don't in VA (sarcasm here), but they certainly exist everywhere else.
> 
> In fact, I know what my biases are, and I admit I'm bigoted against a particular group (which I won't confess to, except to say that the Obamas are not in that group). I'm ashamed of it, and may have to work on it, but that is one serious imperfection I have.
> 
> ...


Wasn't that nasty man (Andrews or Allen, perhaps?) who used that term Makaka, which I had never heard before, a Virginian? 
I am pretty sure that it is in Williamsburg that there is/was a gentleman who does charcoal portraits of southern historical figures. Now, I could understand General Lee, I could certainly get why he would do Alexander Stephens, but Nathan Bedford Forrest a hero? That's a bit of a stretch. I could almost see it if he had been from VA or fought in Virgina, he had no connection there at all. To venerate such a nasty person who had no connection to the region signals just one thing, an agreement in philosophy.
Edit: I note that LTL is attributing the switch to bigot to you, <smh> not much going on up there.
We all have prejudices, that we recognize them and work to ensure that they not affect our actions is the important thing, don't you think?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Using bigot instead of racist is just a childish 'code' word because when you falsely called a person a racist you were challenged.
> 
> I would still contend that MSNBC is one of the most bigoted and racists networks out there. They mocked Ronmey's grandchild, but that is okay in your book.
> 
> I choose to not associate with such people, why give them the attention they crave? Why subject myself to their negativity which is not healthy? Why go around looking for people to attack, you are not going to change them. Probably your caustic 'in your face' lifestyle only reinforces their beliefs. My guess is that some people are just tired of political correctness and their ability to speak freely and they are angry about that and maybe lash out like you do.


I'll take your points, such as they are, one at a time.

"Bigot" is not just a substitute for "racist." Anti-Semitism, for instance, is a form of bigotry that has been as destructive at times as racism.

I can't argue with you about MSNBC because I don't often watch it. (You still haven't figured out that we don't all watch the same things or even have the same opinions.) I was unaware of anything said about Romney's grandchild until you brought it up, and I probably would have found it as offensive as you do. You probably didn't see it on MSNBC either, did you? Did you know about it before you got some emails telling you? Please don't assume that it would be okay in my book; you know nothing about "my book."

"I really do feel sorry for you if you live around such hateful people as you have falsely accused me of being. Maybe you feel the need to be a victim, which justifies your need to falsely label and attack others." Forget about my life and my feelings, which you can only guess about. Also, you're not even good at pop-psych. The people I hang around with here on KP are, by and large, extremely intelligent and well-informed, though I can't vouch for everyone. I find it stimulating to read their posts. If you paid attention, you might find something interesting there as well. In fact, Knitry once wrote you a long post outlining some of the complaints she has about Obama, which apparently you never bothered to read, because you still insist on using your dumb made-up word.

"Probably your caustic 'in your face' lifestyle only reinforces their beliefs." This is hysterically funny. My lifestyle? caustic? 'in you face'? You truly haven't a clue.

As for your last sentence, it seems to contradict itself, or else a word has been left out, so I can't quite follow it. If you've actually read this message all the way to here, maybe you could explain it to me. I promise I won't "lash out" at you.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Other than the possible connection of the inmates' health care there is little to connect this to the thread. I just wanted to enjoy it for a few moments longer so here it is.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/03/idaho-prison/4304689/
> 
> Private enterprise can just do everything better, can't they?


Yeah, especially steal taxpayer's money. Seriously, our wonderful capitalists and their bought-and-paid-for politicians realized some years ago that a great way to get their hands on a nearly endless stream of taxpayer money was: _TaDa!_ Privatization.

To me the whole concept of privatization doesn't even pass the common sense test: How on earth do you cover costs AND make a profit, and do it for "less" than government is able to do it? Well, you cut wages straightaway -- a lot. And then you start cutting other costs which means a significant erosion in the delivery of services. And in order to squeeze out those ever-increasing profits, you're going to have to cut services -- and wages -- a LOT. Doesn't add up. Why not just continue to let government do it? The alternative IS GOING TO cost more, one way or another, either directly or indirectly.

Besides, there are a number of "services" that benefit the entire populace which simply shouldn't be privatized. Put another way, should if not MUST be done by government. Prisons are prime among them, IMO.

Something else about prisons that really annoys me but which most people are too eager to forget or just outright ignore (and this goes to the mistreatment sure to follow with privatization): we put people in prison AS punishment, not TO BE punished (mistreated).

I'm glad Idaho has seen the light. Hope many other states will follow.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I really do feel sorry for you if you live around such hateful people as you have falsely accused me of being. <snip> I choose to not associate with such people, why give them the attention they crave? Why subject myself to their negativity which is not healthy? Why go around looking for people to attack, you are not going to change them.


I wanted to deal with this separately, just to point out that some of the people you associate with here on KP are the most hateful, destructive, nasty people I've come across anywhere.

As for negativity, how would you describe the desire to tear down a badly needed health-insurance plan before it's even gotten under way? And to do so by lying about it? And especially to be so gleeful when things go wrong with it (as they do with most big ideas)?

All those newly covered diabetics who will finally get the treatment they need - would you say "let them eat cake"?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Today's great chuckle is this...

I didn't even read that article yet, I just LOVE the headline.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/03/utah-man-to-fast-until-the-state-unilaterally-denies-same-sex-couples-the-right-to-marry/

And please note over to the side, an article about Kerry and the XL pipeline.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Wasn't that nasty man (Andrews or Allen, perhaps?) who used that term Makaka, which I had never heard before, a Virginian?
> I am pretty sure that it is in Williamsburg that there is/was a gentleman who does charcoal portraits of southern historical figures. Now, I could understand General Lee, I could certainly get why he would do Alexander Stephens, but Nathan Bedford Forrest a hero? That's a bit of a stretch. I could almost see it if he had been from VA or fought in Virgina, he had no connection there at all. To venerate such a nasty person who had no connection to the region signals just one thing, an agreement in philosophy.
> Edit: I note that LTL is attributing the switch to bigot to you, <smh> not much going on up there.
> We all have prejudices, that we recognize them and work to ensure that they not affect our actions is the important thing, don't you think?


The urban dictionary defines "macaca" as "A racial slur used by Senator George Allen, which literally means 'monkey.' Recently used by the Senator while campaigning in Virginia." Nothing hateful or bigoted there. (In the interest of fairness, I recommend reading http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2011/04/wikipedias_macaca_problem.html ).

Forrest is a pretty mixed bag. He was a true Confederate hero, but he did lead the KKK after it was formed. Still, PBS said of him,



> After only a year as Grand Wizard, in January 1869, faced with an ungovernable membership employing methods that seemed increasingly counterproductive, Forrest issued KKK General Order Number One: "It is therefore ordered and decreed, that the masks and costumes of this Order be entirely abolished and destroyed." *By the end of his life, Forrest's racial attitudes would evolve  in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school  and he lived to fully renounce his involvement with the all-but-vanished Klan.*


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Using bigot instead of racist is just a childish 'code' word because when you falsely called a person a racist you were challenged.
> 
> I would still contend that MSNBC is one of the most bigoted and racists networks out there. They mocked Ronmey's grandchild, but that is okay in your book.
> 
> I really do feel sorry for you if you live around such hateful people as you have falsely accused me of being. Maybe you feel the need to be a victim, which justifies your need to falsely label and attack others. I choose to not associate with such people, why give them the attention they crave? Why subject myself to their negativity which is not healthy? Why go around looking for people to attack, you are not going to change them. Probably your caustic 'in your face' lifestyle only reinforces their beliefs. My guess is that some people are just tired of political correctness and their ability to speak freely and they are angry about that and maybe lash out like you do.


You said it all and I agree. The women who mock Romey's grandchild was so off the wall and nothing is being said about her remarks. She should have been fired how racist was she.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Using bigot instead of racist is just a childish 'code' word because when you falsely called a person a racist you were challenged.


I'm quite sure any challenge to Purl on the issue of racism was misplaced.

But I'm ROFL that you think a synonym is actually a "code word." Wikipedia to the rescue:



> A code word is a word or a phrase designed to convey a predetermined meaning to a receptive audience, *while remaining inconspicuous to the uninitiated.*


OTOH, you can see for yourself that bigot is a widely accepted _synonym_ for racist: http://thesaurus.com/browse/racism

The difference is this: A racist is a bigot, whereas a bigot may be a racist, or may be a sexist or homophobe or maybe just a bigot about other things -- religion, for example.



> I would still contend that MSNBC is one of the most bigoted and racists networks out there.


And, you would be wrong. That designation would go to YOUR favorite station: Fox.

One of the things people on your side need to understand is that racism only flows one way: from up to down, from the privileged and powerful to the less privileged and less powerful, never the reverse. In fact, it is racism (and other bigotries) that both pave the way and outright help create that power differential and dynamic. These bigotries are the oil that greases the wheels of privilege and power vs. oppression.

If you want to understand more about what racism is, how it filters throughout all of society and everything we do, and what "white privilege" is, here's some good reading. I dare you to actually read it, the whole thing: http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html

But just for the record, racism is a societal problem; there IS no such thing as "reverse racism," though there certainly can be anti-white bigotry. (See how that works??)



> They mocked Ronmey's grandchild, but that is okay in your book.


No, "they" didn't. And in fact, they didn't really mock his grandchild. I watch a lot of MSNBC and really like MHP, but I missed that segment. However, I ust found the clip here and am shocked about the furor that has erupted since so much worse REAL racial bigotry -- so much worse by an order of magnitude!! -- happens all the time on the right and gets by: 
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/melissa-harris-perry-and-msnbc-panel-mock-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/

This morning MHP issued an apology on her show, apparently the very first thing, and it's not only heartfelt, it's pretty sackcloth-ish IMO:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/melissa-harris-perry-and-msnbc-panel-mock-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/

It's clear to me that TPTB on the right would love to see her canned from MSNBC just as Bashir and Alec Baldwin have been canned. They smell blood in the water and are trying for more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Today's great chuckle is this...
> 
> I didn't even read that article yet, I just LOVE the headline.
> 
> ...


Look at his face. Totally gay.

And Kerry should (and may) have won in 2004.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> You said it all and I agree. The women who mock Romey's grandchild was so off the wall and nothing is being said about her remarks. She should have been fired how racist was she.


Nothing is being said? How the heck did YOU find out about it? The poor woman is being hounded mercilessly, given how innocuous the remarks really were.

You people slay me.

_shaking head in utter disbelief_


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> No, "they" didn't. And in fact, they didn't really mock his grandchild. I watch a lot of MSNBC and really like MHP, but I missed that segment. However, I ust found the clip here and am shocked about the furor that has erupted since so much worse REAL racial bigotry -- so much worse by an order of magnitude!! -- happens all the time on the right and gets by:
> http://www.mediaite.com/tv/melissa-harris-perry-and-msnbc-panel-mock-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/
> 
> This morning MHP issued an apology on her show, apparently the very first thing, and it's not only heartfelt, it's pretty sackcloth-ish IMO:
> ...


_That_ is what they're making such a deal about? I can't believe anyone who's seen it thinks it's racist. Talk about political correctness!

Just some more proof (as if it were needed) that the righties don't know what they're talking about and are quite happy to lie in order to seem knowing.

LTL, did you see that spot before you got so worked up? Or did you just do what your bosses told you to do?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Look at his face. Totally gay.


Well, we know that closeted gay politicians support anti-gay legislation so adamantly hoping that will serve as political cover. Perhaps what this guy is doing as well.

I've always wondered if they are also lying to themselves, like Larry Craig who insists he's not gay because he "doesn't live the gay lifestyle," whatever that is.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> _That_ is what they're making such a deal about? I can't believe anyone who's seen it thinks it's racist. Talk about political correctness!


I know, it's really ridiculous. There's been such a tumult I thought it must've been a BIG deal, but -- it's barely there. Had I blinked I'd have missed it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, we know that closeted gay politicians support anti-gay legislation so adamantly hoping that will serve as political cover. Perhaps what this guy is doing as well.
> 
> I've always wondered if they are also lying to themselves, like Larry Craig who insists he's not gay because he "doesn't live the gay lifestyle," whatever that is.


This guy reminds me of the character in Angels in America who comes east from Utah (I don't remember why, though I do remember he was engaged to the character played by Mary Louise Parker) and finally discovers how gay he really is.

btw, if you haven't seen Angels in America, I highly recommend it. It's sad and funny and brilliant, and Meryl Streep is unforgettable. (Plus Al Pacino plays a Roy Cohn character spot on).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, we know that closeted gay politicians support anti-gay legislation so adamantly hoping that will serve as political cover. Perhaps what this guy is doing as well.
> 
> I've always wondered if they are also lying to themselves, like Larry Craig who insists he's not gay because he "doesn't live the gay lifestyle," whatever that is.


Did you ever hear Larry Craig talking to/about Bill Clinton during the impeachment process? Probably the best clip is the following: 



 .


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> You don't get to determine where I post.
> **** **** *******.


I personally don't care where you post or if you do post, but don't say you come to a thread started by a conservative to get away from conservatives.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you ever hear Larry Craig talking to/about Bill Clinton during the impeachment process? Probably the best clip is the following:
> 
> 
> 
> .


OMG, that is freakin' hilarious. Chris Matthews's expression -- absolutely priceless. And so is the reaction by all Maher's panelists. All of it is just amazing. Thanks so much for posting that.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> This is waaay off-topic, but just look at what some jerk in Wisconsin wants to do:
> 
> For anyone not familiar with what's going on in Wisconsin and Michigan, please consider starting to pay very close attention. They are literally dismantling democracy in huge leaps and bounds and what they're leaving in its wake is none too pretty. I've heard that Detroit in particular is a template for what ALEC and the Republicons want to do wherever possible, as soon as possible. Oh, and North Carolina is not beacon of hope either these days, but I think they're going to be in for a surprise in 2014.


If companies have overtime available, why not just hire more employees. Hiring another shift would eliminate any problems with who will/will not work. This shouldn't be made into a problem for the worker, they shouldn't feel obligated or forced into overtime.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL 
A MUST READ!! IMPORTANT!!


Business World 

ObamaCare Is Redistribution, Not Reform

The law's faults are daily being exposed. But maybe the mistakes will be instructive.


By Holman W. Jenkins, Jr. 

Jan. 3, 2014 6:33 p.m. ET


HealthCare.gov has started to work as a new year dawns. But work at what? It still delivers a faulty vision of health-care reform.

Let it be said that ObamaCare provides fabulous benefits for some Americans. If you have serious health problems and a low income (but not low enough to qualify for Medicaid), you can get unlimited health care for a premium largely or completely subsidized by someone else.

If you are a young adult under 26, you can be covered on your parents' policy at the expense of other insurance customers.

Down the road, if your employer doesn't lay you off or reduce your hours, you may get health care.

But these benefits are delivered to some at the expense of others, thus qualify as "redistribution," not "reform." Reform, defined in any rigorous way, would benefit everybody because it would remove distortions that cause Americans to spend too much and get too little for their health-care dollar.

Way back in 2010, Mr. Obama's strongest business supporter, Warren Buffett, made the case for reform before redistribution, telling CNBC: "Universalityyeah, I believe in insuring more people, but I don't believe in insuring more people until you attack the cost aspect."

One might quibble: Why couldn't a proper law do both at the same time? But what we got instead, as Mr. Buffett foretold in the same television interview, was not reform but "2,000 pages . . . of nonsense."

So let's talk about deductibles. In terminal desperation, liberals now are calling Republicans hypocrites for criticizing ObamaCare's high deductibles. After all, didn't Republicans once favor higher out-of-pocket costs as a way to introduce more consumer sensitivity to the cost and value of health care?

With a stupidity that is an inexcusable imposition on their readers, some prominent bloggers have taken up this line in especially shrill fashion. But there is no right or wrong size for a deductible (or provider network for that matter), just one of the many features consumers trade off as they choose a policy. 

The characteristic pathology of ObamaCare is that government is making the choices. Consumers aren't. ObamaCare means higher deductibles than many customers would choose for themselves. It means a narrower choice of doctors and hospitals than many would choose for themselves. These sacrifices, in turn, are required to pay for a broader package of benefits than many customers would choose for themselves.

The biggest, dumbest ObamaCare lie of them all was that these distortions were necessary to cover the poor and those with pre-existing conditions. Direct tax dollars could have been used to cover these users. Everybody else could have been left free to buy insurance in a market not distorted by mandatesexactly what a broad spectrum of health-care reformers (not just Republicans) have sought for decades.

As serious reformers have always known, the real political challenge has been unwinding inefficient and illusory favors directed at various classes of health-care users and providers. In the absence of these government-mandated distortions (including tax distortions), then the market would necessarily gravitate toward insurance arrangements that help Americans make better use of their health-care resources.

You can blame congressional sausage-making for the crummy excuse for reform Mr. Obama gave us. You can suspect that its creators were mostly interested in undermining what's left of our private system of health insurance. 

ObamaCare was not the product of a blue-ribbon commission or some body of learned advisers, recall. It was assembled in logrolling exclusively among Democrats in Congress, led by Nancy Pelosi, who is not known as a policy thinker.

But, lo, a seasonal miracle is occurring. As liberals are forced to take into account the actual, real people whom their schemes seem so characteristically ignorant of, a new chance for reform is opening up. Every piece in ObamaCare is being postponed or rewritten. The individual mandate is becoming a comatose letter if not a dead one. In the latest doomed innovation from the White House, insurers are being sandbagged by a new requirement to sell to older, sicker customers policies designed and priced for a healthier, under-30 crowd.

ObamaCare's authors are being mugged by reality in real time, before our eyes. This is the most propitious development for health-care reform in decades.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> OMG, that is freakin' hilarious. Chris Matthews's expression -- absolutely priceless. And so is the reaction by all Maher's panelists. All of it is just amazing. Thanks so much for posting that.


My pleasure.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> You said it all and I agree. The women who mock Romey's grandchild was so off the wall and nothing is being said about her remarks. She should have been fired how racist was she.


Why is it not OK for a white family to adopt an African American child? Why must the children be denied this because the black community doesn't like the idea. What started out as the black community saying the white community couldn't possibly raise the child as he/she should be raised, doesn't know the culture, and so on, yet at the same time they did not step up and help those children either. Reverends Jackson and Sharpton certainly didn't help with their speeches about keeping the black child in the black community because they are our children. That very attitude has led to many children being placed into the system, not into permanent homes. I'm not by any means saying that by allowing whites to adopt blacks, all racial problems would go away. Of course they won't. I am saying that these children are being denied a chance that they will never get living in a foster home(s) being a ward of the state.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it not OK for a white family to adopt an African American child? ...


No one here is arguing that, nor was it part of MHPs problem segment. Why are you bringing it up?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Another OT topic:

Phil Everly died yesterday. Fascinating article:



> *Phil Everly and Brother Were Architects of Harmony*
> 
> NEW YORK  Art Garfunkel answered the door to his Manhattan apartment holding a framed black-and-white picture of two smiling men. It was a test.
> National Twitter Logo.
> ...


A few videos -- or actually a whole playlist: 




Oh, I also discovered this, which I just love. Normally I find remakes of old hits not as good as the original, but this is splendid. I'll have to listen to the rest of the "Foreverly" album:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I would have to question the term hero in relation to Forrest. He was a great tactician, very intelligent, and ruthless. War does terrible things to most people. I am not sure all of what he did and allowed can be blamed on him as an individual. 
I am also unsure that leaving a post because your subordinates are unruly (think Sarah Palin) or taking a few generous actions means a change of heart. Even as the KKK activated again into a more brutal organization the public figures acted the part of good citizens during the day. I suppose that 90 years later we can never be sure.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> You said it all and I agree. The women who mock Romey's grandchild was so off the wall and nothing is being said about her remarks. She should have been fired how racist was she.


True. They are pigs on MSNBC and only have a handful of viewers which is why nothing is being said about the disgusting remarks of her "panel" of racist pigs. No one barely heard it and no one cares what anyone on that network says. Apparantely, they are all too stupid to know to not say the things they did nor understand to apologize, so they were *forced * to apologize according to other authors. What does that tell you?

This statement describes those racist, Liberal nut jobs perfectly:

_'MSNBC has become a club where the smug go to exchange hateful opinions and reassure each other it's acceptable,' _ tweeted Romney 2012 senior adviser Stuart Stevens.

Soon, the network will be gone - cannot happen soon enough and never to hear their hatred again.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> No, "they" didn't. And in fact, they didn't really mock his grandchild. I watch a lot of MSNBC and really like MHP, but I missed that segment. However, I ust found the clip here and am shocked about the furor that has erupted since so much worse REAL racial bigotry -- so much worse by an order of magnitude!! -- happens all the time on the right and gets by:
> http://www.mediaite.com/tv/melissa-harris-perry-and-msnbc-panel-mock-mitt-romneys-black-grandson/
> 
> This morning MHP issued an apology on her show, apparently the very first thing, and it's not only heartfelt, it's pretty sackcloth-ish IMO:
> ...


I haven't said much about this since I didn't see it, I am a fan of MHP, however. From the short piece that I did see, it seems that what the panel was guilty of was politicism. They were bashing the Republican Party for the demonstrably failed and fake attempts to have diversity within the GOP and relating that the the imbalance shown in that picture. 
It was insensitive, I am sure that baby is crying on a daily basis. Nothing to do with what was said on MSNBC, of course, being it is what babies do... 
I think, Knitry, that there is only one word to describe the furor, hypocrisy.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I personally don't care where you post or if you do post, but don't say you come to a thread started by a conservative to get away from conservatives.


Nearly every statement out of her mouth is a lie, don't let this one phase you or even register.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it not OK for a white family to adopt an African American child? Why must the children be denied this because the black community doesn't like the idea. What started out as the black community saying the white community couldn't possibly raise the child as he/she should be raised, doesn't know the culture, and so on, yet at the same time they did not step up and help those children either. Reverends Jackson and Sharpton certainly didn't help with their speeches about keeping the black child in the black community because they are our children. That very attitude has led to many children being placed into the system, not into permanent homes. I'm not by any means saying that by allowing whites to adopt blacks, all racial problems would go away. Of course they won't. I am saying that these children are being denied a chance that they will never get living in a foster home(s) being a ward of the state.


Agreed; where is the rage and protests because the black community doesn't take care of other blacks or any other race for that matter? Black-on-black crime is spiraling out of control, their unemployment rates are forever increasing, and I see nothing been said or done by the regular leaders of their own communities and race.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I would have to question the term hero in relation to Forrest. He was a great tactician, very intelligent, and ruthless. War does terrible things to most people. I am not sure all of what he did and allowed can be blamed on him as an individual.
> I am also unsure that leaving a post because your subordinates are unruly (think Sarah Palin) or taking a few generous actions means a change of heart. Even as the KKK reformed into a more brutal organization the public figures acted the part of good citizens during the day. I suppose that 90 years later we can never be sure.


I know very little about Forrest, only what I read on the PBS site. I was probably mistaken in using the word "hero." But I was impressed by the following: "in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school." This sounds to me like a big change of heart.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I haven't said much about this since I didn't see it, I am a fan of MHP, however. From the short piece that I did see, it seems that what the panel was guilty of was politicism. They were bashing the Republican Party for the demonstrably failed and fake attempts to have diversity within the GOP and relating that the the imbalance shown in that picture.
> It was insensitive, I am sure that baby is crying on a daily basis. Nothing to do with what was said on MSNBC, of course, being it is what babies do...
> I think, Knitry, that there is only one word to describe the furor, hypocrisy.


Especially since the furor seems to be coming from people who never saw the incident but only know what others are saying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I know very little about Forrest, only what I read on the PBS site. I was probably mistaken in using the word "hero." But I was impressed by the following: "in 1875, he advocated for the admission of blacks into law school." This sounds to me like a big change of heart.


Maybe, I guess it would depend on which school he was recommmending.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, no bigotry shown here... 

"Agreed; where is the rage and protests because the black community doesn't take care of other blacks or any other race for that matter? Black-on-black crime is spiraling out of control, their unemployment rates are forever increasing, and I see nothing been said or done by the regular leaders of their own communities and race.

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only so"


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> True. They are pigs on MSNBC and only have a handful of viewers which is why nothing is being said about the disgusting remarks of her "panel" of racist pigs. No one barely heard it and no one cares what anyone on that network says. Apparantely, they are all too stupid to know to not say the things they did nor understand to apologize, so they were *forced * to apologize according to other authors. What does that tell you?
> 
> This statement describes those racist, Liberal nut jobs perfectly:
> 
> ...


You beat me to the quote. They do seem like a club that pats each other on the back or gives a high five whenever they make a nasty, uncalled for comment about a Republican or Conservative.


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