# Whoever wrote this should be applauded (Covid)



## Puppies101 (Nov 3, 2012)

I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.




You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,

I am vaccinated, respect my choice ...

I'm vaccinated, not to please the government but



* To not die from Covid-19.

* To NOT clutter a hospital bed if I get sick.

* To hug my loved ones

* To Not have to do PCR or antigenic tests to go out dancing, go to a restaurant, go on holidays and many more things to come ...

* To live my life.

* To have kids go back to school and play sports.

* For Covid-19 to be an old memory.

* To protect us.

On the other hand, no, I don't know what's in it - neither in this vaccine or the ones I had as a child, nor in the Big Mac, or in hot dogs, or in other treatments, whether it's for cancer, AIDS, the one for polyarthritis, vaccines for infants or children.

I also don't know what's in Ibuprofen, Tylenol, or other meds, it just cures my headaches, my pains ...

I don't know what's in the ink for tattoos. Or every ingredient in my soap or shampoo. I don’t know the long term effect of mobile phone use or whether or not that restaurant I just ate at REALLY used clean foods or just said it !

In short ...

There's a lot of things I don't know and never will...

I just know one thing: life is short, very short, and I still want to do something other than just going to work every day or staying locked in my home. I still want to travel and hug people without fear, find a little feeling of life "before".

As a child and as an adult I've been vaccinated for mumps, measles, rubella, polio, chicken pox, and probs a few others; my parents and I trusted the science and never had to suffer through or transmit any of said diseases ... just saying.


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## lobsterlice (Oct 13, 2012)

I applaud this message!!


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

I agree 100%.
I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.

JMHO


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


I agree. Wholeheartedly.


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## MaxDog1 (Jan 29, 2017)

I Agree 100%


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## kecwnp (Feb 25, 2018)

Thank you for this. Is it okay if I share it?


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## MMWRay (Dec 2, 2016)

I am being mean but that new medication to treat Covid should be given to vaccinated persons, not those that refused the 'medication' of a vaccine.


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## ann dotson (Jun 3, 2014)

I agree


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## mildredL2 (May 14, 2014)

I agree! Thank you for sharing this.


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## YourLuckyEwe (Jul 2, 2011)

I hope those that have not been vaccinated and do get Covid have very good medical insurance. Actually, I wish those who get a "break through" Covid infection, also have very good health insurance.


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## peppered (May 16, 2014)

YourLuckyEwe said:


> I hope those that have not been vaccinated and do get Covid have very good medical insurance. Actually, I wish those who get a "break through" Covid infection, also have very good health insurance.


I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


I had COVID and three jabs of Pfizer. First I was fully vaccinated with two jabs of Pfizer then came down with the COVID 4 1/2 months later. Last week I had the Booster Shot.


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## Nila (Jul 18, 2016)

Your freedom and rights stop at my body.If you are not vaccinated , stay the ___ell away from me. Nila


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## Alanan (Sep 22, 2011)

I agree.


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

Nila said:


> Your freedom and rights stop at my body.If you are not vaccinated , stay the ___ell away from me. Nila


Yay. I wish all the first responders and health professionals who refused the vaccine would respect this as well.

I just don't understand why anyone would question taking it. They didn't question all the other disease vaccines!


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## Carlavine (Oct 31, 2011)

Here here!


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## CindyAM (Sep 23, 2013)

I totally agree!


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

MMWRay said:


> I am being mean but that new medication to treat Covid should be given to vaccinated persons, not those that refused the 'medication' of a vaccine.


My life is too short to be vindictive. I wish early on that many people had made different choices, but they didn't. How to I justify that attitude to a mom whose child "drank the kool-aid" and bought into a conspiracy theory that ended in his or her illness or death. Will my attitude be any less painful to her or her grief any less if mom's choices are more aligned with my views than her child's? That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated and angry at times, especially when people try to push their choices on me but I'm too tired to waste energy on wishing others ill. Early in my life, I joined the military (during Vietnam) and had to come to terms with the possibility of treating enemy combatants. That has shaped my attitude but that doesn't mean I don't believe in triage, prioritizing medical care for those with the best chance of survival, but it also doesn't mean denying care arbitrarily based on another's beliefs, that is a slippery slope I don't to go anywhere near. JMHO.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Absolutely right


KateLyn11 said:


> My life is too short to be vindictive. I wish early on that many people had made different choices, but they didn't. How to I justify that attitude to a mom whose child "drank the kool-aid" and bought into a conspiracy theory that ended in his or her illness or death. Will my attitude be any less painful to her or her grief any less if mom's choices are more aligned with my views than her child's? That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated and angry at times, especially when people try to push their choices on me but I'm too tired to waste energy on wishing others ill. Early in my life, I joined the military (during Vietnam) and had to come to terms with the possibility of treating enemy combatants. That has shaped my attitude but that doesn't mean I don't believe in triage, prioritizing medical care for those with the best chance of survival, but it also doesn't mean denying care arbitrarily based on another's beliefs, that is a slippery slope I don't to go anywhere near. JMHO.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I found out this afternoon that a relative and wife are anti vaxxers, now one of the folks close to meand to them has to make a choice, to see me or them. Truthfully I am gutted. If the person close to me goes to visit the antivaxers they will not be allowed here. It is like ripples on a pond. This sort of thing can wreck homes.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> I found out this afternoon that a relative and wife are anti vaxxers, now one of the folks close to meand to them has to make a choice, to see me or them. Truthfully I am gutted. If the person close to me goes to visit the antivaxers they will not be allowed here. It is like ripples on a pond. This sort of thing *can* wreck homes.


Can? It has been wrecking homes, families, and lives from before the vaccine was released, and is still doing so where the virus survives and mutates among the unvaccinated.

Let that person go visit the unvaccinated, stay home in real quarantine (no exiting but for necessities and exercise) for at least two weeks, and only _then_, allow that dear one to visit you.

Good luck!


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## Fiona3 (Feb 6, 2014)

Totally agree with this post. ????????????


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.

I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.

Also, the Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. It prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. So I don't agree with the government being allowed to "search" employees' health history to see if they've been vaccinated or anything else----and then fire them if they haven't been vaccinated. And whatever happened to HIPAA?

Beware of the freedoms you give away. Because one day you'll be allowing the government to control EVERYTHING you do. Did you know that Biden (or whoever controls him) is right now discussing a law that allows the IRS to track everybody's bank records? Think about THAT for a minute!!! They will control our money!!!!!

https://www.heritage.org/markets-and-finance/commentary/bidens-proposal-allow-irs-track-your-bank-transactions-dangerous-all


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## peppered (May 16, 2014)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you but this is wrong crowd here to talk about it. 
You know that kids in Europe are getting sick more than usual? Doctors saying that all the mask wearing and all isolation messed up their immune system. You are up and about, your immune system gets stronger.
And about the Amish? They have herd immunity now.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

So go ahead and don't get vaxed,maybe you can start a journal on how may folks you kill off


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Susie2016 said:


> … Did you know that Biden (or whoever controls him) is right now discussing a law that allows the IRS to track everybody's bank records? Think about THAT for a minute!!! They will control our money!!!!! …


No really a bad idea. Those who haven't done anything illegal with their money won't be bothered by the government snooping about in their banking transactions, while those who who're stashing theirs in off-shore or South Dakota institutions are welcome to be audited.

I don't think the government wants to control our moneys, as much as get the taxes that are due.

Isn't there a line in the Bible or the New Testament about giving unto Rome that which is Rome's?? That's taxes. Or do you *like* that the earners of gigantic quantities of money evade paying their share?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

peppered said:


> I totally agree with you but this is wrong crowd here to talk about it.
> You know that kids in Europe are getting sick more than usual? Doctors saying that all the mask wearing and all isolation messed up their immune system. You are up and about, your immune system gets stronger.
> And about *the Amish? They have herd immunity now.*


Really? I must have missed that report in the news. Have you a link?


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## KnitWit 54 (Oct 28, 2012)

Awesome!


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


Plus, the unvax should stay 
home, away from others.


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## Babsj (Dec 8, 2012)

I couldn't agree more.


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

I live in the U.K. and haven’t read this (would love to see a link please) in fact the consensus seems to be that we are seeing much less illness due to lack of transmission be it masks or distancing. My granddaughters high school has reintroduced a mask policy due to its covid case rate, the rate has dropped drastically not only in school initially but also in the wider community. As very few children are immunised as yet I would say it is them transmitting. Not wanting to be vaccinated is one thing in my opinion but many anti-vaxers also refuse all other precautions. Most people I see complaining about mask wearing are those who only need to don one for short periods not those of us who are required to wear them for hours on end. 
Also regarding herd immunity if it were truly able to work I’m surprised we have not seen it occur here or in other countries that were slow to respond for whatever reason- government policy or financial


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## johannecw (Oct 25, 2011)

Well written! Thanks for sharing this.


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## ade (Jul 6, 2018)

Well, I am double vaxxed and have some unvaxxed friends. I consider that they are more at risk from me, who could be covered in covid germs from public exposure, but safer due to the vax status. My concern is that the more the virus finds open invitations from unvaxed people, the more dangerous and invasive it could become, possibly beyond prevention by older vaccines designed to quell covid that hasn’t mutated to a more virulent strain. 

As for treatment, I believe we should have set up vast isolation hospitals in tents, or ocean liners, well away from dense populations, to try to prevent spread. Even in 1918, they had field hospitals.

Should non-vaxxed folk be refused treatment on the public purse? No. We don’t refuse smokers drinker or risk takers treatments to fix problems related to their chosen lifestyles, even though those chosen addictions can harm those around them. We are all in this together or apart. Leper bells only identified those carriers infected, not those carrying the virus while protected by vaccine.

Every plague changes the status quo. Churches and aggressive survivors became rich and powerful as millions died around them and those survivors had great power for generations to come. Who will benefit from this modern culling? Just watch them! They are seeping through every crack, taking advantage of every weak defence, to gain power for their own chosen icons. Be careful who you back. Be even more careful who you believe and why. The need to believe in something or someone can cloud sound judgement. Do you want a dynasty or democracy? 

Covid - the great divider, destroyer of great countries and once strong alliances, large and small, pervading whole populations as insidiously as any malignant mesmerist. Build your defences on solid science, don’t just grasp at the floating straws of dubious gurus and shifty politicians. Be careful where you put your trust and consider why you believe what you do. Solid science? What is that? Evidence from knowledgeable people, not proven snake-oil salesemen.


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## ChristineM (Oct 1, 2012)

Absolutely agree wholeheartedly with everything that you have written! I am an RN recently retired after 55 years..so I have been a career nurse..totally and absolutely devoted to my job, which I have always loved! But retirement doesn't mean rest relax put your feet up to the Regulatory Authority! I received an email from AHPRA saying that I am now on the Subregister and the Government will pay my Registration fees..but not my Professional Undemnity Insurance fees which are around $1,000 per year! The immediate email after this advice, was one ..again from the Government ..advising that I was now double Covid vaccinated as well as having had the Influenza vacc! And Big Brother is alive and well!!! The SA Government says that they now have another 1,000 Nurses to work when the huge influx of cases occurs once our borders are opened! But they fail to tell the Public in their propaganda, that they are calling back recent retirees to fill the gap! We have done our time and I was always doing a lifetime of double shifts and working on PDO's etc. Now ....younger Nurses are complaining about it being unfair and they are burnt out! Hello??? That is what my life was like and my retirement is just that thank you! RETIREMENT! If people choose to not have vaccinations, then don't get taken to hospitals and take up a bed to which they are not entitled to! All of my "peer group" feel exactly the same about the non vaccers too. Stay home and look after themselves! As for me being reregistered again???..well it is a tough call to comply with this Directive!!!

quote=LEE1313]I agree 100%.
I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.

JMHO[/quote]


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## Mad loch (May 21, 2013)

Well said


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## spinningjennie (Jul 30, 2012)

So we shouldn’t treat those people with self inflicted health problems smoking, drinking, obese etc. There is no difference. Didn’t the Nazis do something similar. Slippery slope I fear. 
Yes I am vaccinated.


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## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

Puppies101 said:


> I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.
> 
> You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,
> 
> ...


Good on you!!!!!!!!! Very well spoken - but watch out for the knives in the back that may come from your honesty!!!!


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## Magical Mouse (Oct 8, 2011)

I agree whole heartedly with OP


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## dcgmom (Jul 3, 2019)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


Well put. People should not be dying unnecessarily ecause an unvaccinated person is taking up resources.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree!


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## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

ChristineM said:


> Absolutely agree wholeheartedly with everything that you have written! I am an RN recently retired after 55 years..so I have been a career nurse..totally and absolutely devoted to my job, which I have always loved! But retirement doesn't mean rest relax put your feet up to the Regulatory Authority! I received an email from AHPRA saying that I am now on the Subregister and the Government will pay my Registration fees..but not my Professional Undemnity Insurance fees which are around $1,000 per year! The immediate email after this advice, was one ..again from the Government ..advising that I was now double Covid vaccinated as well as having had the Influenza vacc! And Big Brother is alive and well!!! The SA Government says that they now have another 1,000 Nurses to work when the huge influx of cases occurs once our borders are opened! But they fail to tell the Public in their propaganda, that they are calling back recent retirees to fill the gap! We have done our time and I was always doing a lifetime of double shifts and working on PDO's etc. Now ....younger Nurses are complaining about it being unfair and they are burnt out! Hello??? That is what my life was like and my retirement is just that thank you! RETIREMENT! If people choose to not have vaccinations, then don't get taken to hospitals and take up a bed to which they are not entitled to! All of my "peer group" feel exactly the same about the non vaccers too. Stay home and look after themselves! As for me being reregistered again???..well it is a tough call to comply with this Directive!!!
> 
> quote=LEE1313]I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> ...


[/quote]

To be fair - a lot of retired nurses and doctors are more than happy to go back to work to help out in this emergency. Most doctors and nurses will tell you that the reason they chose their career was because they had a passion for helping people. If you don't feel that way - that's fine - it is your choice but let's not whinge about people being asked to help out when they are more than ready to step up.

I applaud all the health workers (and the associated back up staff) who are looking after all of us during this pandemic!!!!!! :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: THANK YOU ALL!!!


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


If having had covid gives natural immunity...how did you get it a second time?


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

JTM said:


> If having had covid gives natural immunity...how did you get it a second time?


My two cousins and one 
of their wives had Covid,
in early 2020.
As soon as they could, they
got the shots.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

It would be acting in accordance with Darwin and culling the lowest common denominator among the population using their own choices. They shouldn't have it both ways, ignoring safety precautions then expecting heroic measures to save them when their choices come back to bite therm. With freedom of choice comes the responsibility to deal with the consequences.


MMWRay said:


> I am being mean but that new medication to treat Covid should be given to vaccinated persons, not those that refused the 'medication' of a vaccine.


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## MissV2 (Jan 3, 2013)

I applaud you!


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## karenh (Mar 23, 2011)

Perfect!


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## MissV2 (Jan 3, 2013)

Yes, I agree: a long and loud round of applause! Her entry was seen further up in this posting.


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## mgt44 (Jun 28, 2011)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## mgt44 (Jun 28, 2011)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Mitch (Apr 4, 2011)

I agree too!


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## roseknit (Apr 2, 2011)

You never spoke a truer word, I had my jabs, waiting now for the booster shot, to please me, not some politician


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## rujam (Aug 19, 2011)

The Covid injection is supposed to be mandatory for our police but a lot of them refuse to have it. A woman was interviewed and was asked why she hadn't had the injection. "Freedom of choice" was her answer. What is it with these people? Would they sooner get sick?


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

rujam said:


> The Covid injection is supposed to be mandatory for our police but a lot of them refuse to have it. A woman was interviewed and was asked why she hadn't had the injection. "Freedom of choice" was her answer. What is it with these people? Would they sooner get sick?


Some feel we are loosing
our freedoms, so they are
grasping onto what ever they
see as a freedom. They've
been fed a lot of swill,
methinks.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

I had two shots of the vaccine and can’t wait for the third one. Am protecting myself from COVID and those who refuse the get the vaccine. Hate me if you want, but, if you refuse to get vaccinated, get sick and die, I can’t feel sorry for you.


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## wendy n (Jul 23, 2015)

Just had my booster COVID injection. Went to get my nails done in a local shop for my sons wedding. Realised she was not vaccinated with no mask. No way was I giving her my money, Just walked out. I would like all vaccines to be compulsory especially for children unless medically contraindicated.


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

wendy n said:


> Just had my booster COVID injection. Went to get my nails done in a local shop for my sons wedding. Realised she was not vaccinated with no mask. No way was I giving her my money, Just walked out. I would like all vaccines to be compulsory especially for children unless medically contraindicated.


I applaud you for leaving when you found out the manicurist was not vaccinated and also not masked.


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## GeriT01 (Jan 5, 2015)

Puppies101 said:


> I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.
> 
> You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,
> 
> ...


????????‍♀ ????????????????????????????????????????


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## wallaby (Sep 4, 2016)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## dollyruel (Jul 18, 2011)

`nuff said !!!!!!!!!!! ???? I AGREE. THANK YOU FOR POSTING.


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## Mojo25 (Nov 24, 2017)

I agree with vaccination to control a virus running rampant through civilization and wonder how people would feel if the gov’t had not stepped in to make this available to the masses. Many folks complain that the gov’t is trying to ‘control’ us, but if we had been put in a situation where production of the vaccination was only driven by use, the worldwide numbers for deaths may have been horrific.

As far as how to medically treat those who choose not to vaccinate, This is a slippery slope, but I don’t see them in the same category as self inflicted diseases - obesity, tobacco-related, etc because Covid is a communicable disease that can be passed to others.

I guess we all wish folks would stop, look at the greater good, take the jab in the arm, and move on with their lives so we all could move on.


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## pattymea (Apr 5, 2017)

Well said!


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## sandj (May 16, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


Forcing people? I heard something about if you go to a ball game stadium to being vaccinated for game. Something about it being required. I know a lady who is about 90 pounds and got sick from a vaccine and then getting 2 boosters. I think for her body size that was to much! ????


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


There is no such thing. Your natural immunity is very short lived. You still need to get vaccinated!
I just got the 3rd booster shot through the Pfizer clinical trial which I volunteered for in August of 2020. They said, we don't know what mutations could be coming, but it's a pretty sure bet that we will need a Booster every year now. Just like we get a flu shot every year.


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## Sukiesue (Aug 7, 2016)

Jessica-Jean said:


> No really a bad idea. Those who haven't done anything illegal with their money won't be bothered by the government snooping about in their banking transactions, while those who who're stashing theirs in off-shore or South Dakota institutions are welcome to be audited.
> 
> I don't think the government wants to control our moneys, as much as get the taxes that are due.
> 
> Isn't there a line in the Bible or the New Testament about giving unto Rome that which is Rome's?? That's taxes. Or do you *like* that the earners of gigantic quantities of money evade paying their share?


Yes, there is!

Luke 20:19-25 are the verses, render Caesar's things to Caesar! Interesting to read the content of those verses

Surely the unvaccinated are more at risk than vaccinated, so if that's their choice I'd prefer not to get too antagonistic about it.


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## eikeat (Feb 12, 2011)

Well said.


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I am fully vaccinated for Covid and yesterday I had my 2nd Flu vaccination. I asked my Dr about the Covid booster and he said that I could have one if I was willing to go on a register with the surgery and if they had a cancellation they would call me to go up straight away. I will wait now for 6 weeks and ring the surgery then and go on the waiting list.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


And we can assume that you have the positive results of the antibody tests in your possession?


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## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

Granny41 said:


> And we can assume that you have the positive results of the antibody tests in your possession?


Well spoken
:sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## luree (Feb 21, 2014)

Perfect! I totally agree with that.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

That’s a great piece. I just read there are an estimated 90,000 unnecessary deaths because of vaccine refusals (I bet it’s higher). And thousands of kids in foster care too because their caregivers are dead. No wonder Russian trolls are celebrating all their Covid vaccine misinformation!


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## malfrench (Apr 7, 2011)

AMEN!


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Spot on!


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## chain60 (Jul 23, 2019)

"Trust the government" said no founding father ever.


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## marydeckman (Feb 14, 2017)

Well said! Thanks for sharing.


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

Granny41 said:


> And we can assume that you have the positive results of the antibody tests in your possession?


Well said 
I don't believe natural immunity is something to be relied upon. I had covid end March'19 and really was quite unwell followed by a positive antibody test june '19. I then had my vaccinations in feb and may '21 and yet another positive antibody test sept'21 which stated "had most likely been reinfected within the last 6 months" if that's the case then I was completely asymptomatic which as the antibodies are short lived I put down to being double jabbed


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

joycevv said:


> That's a great piece. I just read there are an estimated 90,000 unnecessary deaths because of vaccine refusals (I bet it's higher). And thousands of kids in foster care too because their caregivers are dead. No wonder Russian trolls are celebrating all their Covid vaccine misinformation!


Those unnecessary deaths due to vaccine refusals were in the USA just during a couple of months. August and September I believe.


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## kleforestier (Apr 17, 2018)

Well said!


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## a.ledge (Jun 28, 2018)

That was very well put.


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## jditlin (Mar 13, 2011)

Absolutely!!! As for all the court cases fighting the mandates, this was decided well over a century ago:
In 1905, when the Supreme Court ruled against the Massachusetts pastor who did not want to take a smallpox vaccine, Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. “Real liberty for all could not exist,” Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, if people could act “regardless of the injury that may be done to others.”


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## flhusker (Feb 17, 2011)

MMWRay said:


> I am being mean but that new medication to treat Covid should be given to vaccinated persons, not those that refused the 'medication' of a vaccine.


I totally agree. Also, oxygen should be given first to those who need it due to cancer, copd, and other non-covid related illnesses. Those who did not get vaccinated and got covid should be put at the bottom of the list. I've been trying for months to getca portable oxygen concentrator for my husband and none are available because covid patients have them.


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## Puppies101 (Nov 3, 2012)

kecwnp said:


> Thank you for this. Is it okay if I share it?


Yes you may share it.


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## Linran (Oct 9, 2018)

So very well stated and I agree a thousand times over


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## nonnieD (Jul 18, 2019)

I 100% agree! Thanks for sharing!


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## mmpaladino (Feb 22, 2015)

Well said. Thank you.


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## wjeanc (Nov 15, 2012)

Bravo! Exactly how I feel.


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## kemu (Sep 11, 2011)

One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


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## mmpaladino (Feb 22, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


You are already tracked if you use a cell phone and/or credit/debit card. Sit with a friend, have your cell phone on your lap and talk about wanting to purchase something you have not talked about before or looked for on your phone. Several minutes later scroll through your cell phone. You will see advertisements for what you just talked about. You are already controlled. A vaccine will not change that.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

We have an extremely low vaccination percentage and very few people mask in north Idaho, mainly the vaccinated people mask, in fact.
We had very vew deaths in our county for most of the pandemic but now that the delta variant is here we are averaging 1 death a day for the last 30 days. (29 deaths in 30 days)
I am fully vaccinated and will get a booster when I am eligible.
Our business is impacted, our physical store has been closed, except by appointment for over a year. These fools, and their passion for refusing to do anything they don't want to, are extending this pandemic long after it could have been under control. They are willingly hosting and spreading death and disability to anyone unfortunate enough to come in contact.
I did not get vaccinated nor do I wear a mask, avoid crowds, etc. because the government told me to do so. 
I did get vaccinated and I do take precautions every day because I listen to medical advice. From real doctors and disease specialists from around the world. It has nothing to do with the government - any government. 
If people had any sense at all there would be no need for mandates or lockdowns, individuals would do everything they could to stop the pandemic, get vaccinations, wear masks, because that is the best way to protect our families and our neighbors, near and far.
I can honestly say that no person has died or has long term covid because I decided that my freedom to act like an idiot if i chose to do so is more important than the safety of those around me. I have done everything to protect myself, the ones I love, the ones I like, and yes, even the ones whose actions I despise. That is important to me.
We cannot ask our health professionals to judge who should live and who should die by vaccination records. It is putting too much on people who have dedicated their lives to saving lives. They already are facing the hard choice of triage, who is most likely to survive, who gets treatment, who gets pallative care. That is a horrid choice already. In wartime, field doctors face horrible trauma at the daily choices of who lives and dies. They burn out and are shipped home.
For our current medical teams there is no escape. The anti vaxxers are flooding them with an overload of deathly ill patients. When they burn out there is no place to go, the bodies keep on piling up, they hear the rattle of the last breath far too often. For them, each bed holds someone they are trying to save. They have to go by statistics and vitals, each person is equal in death. We cannot ask more of them. 
I don't have an answer. I am deeply dissappointed in those who refuse vaccination AND refuse to wear a mask, refuse to curtail their activities and then have the temerity to whine that they are being mistreated. 
They are proudly killing people, bragging about how free they are. The people in my community are dying, one by one, a form of suicide, and taking innocents along with them. What is going to be their excuse on judgement day?


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


RNA is not a creation by any person. It is a basic component of each and every one of us. As a health professional, you should know this. Stop spreading lies, please.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


Links? 
Everyone here has already decided on this issue but how many people around you in your daily life will get deathly ill by listening to your bad advice? 
Most people, like me, who are vaccinated are very careful to wear masks around the non-vaccinated, do not feel "bulletproof" and are careful as they can be to not spread covid if there is a a possibility they might have contracted it.
Those who chose not to get vaccinated - and also do not mask up and follow other health guidelines - for political reasons or belief in unfounded and consistantly debunked conspiracy theories, are sheep, living in fear, bleating rumor and heresay, spreading untruths as freely as they spread the virus.
Once again, I respect the position of those who cannot receive vaccination because of medical issues and/or their doctors advice - we all need to protect you. I respect those who chose anti vax but mask up and do everything they can to keep the virus from spreading, you are entitled to your choices as long as you respect the need to protect those around you and do everything you can to stop the spread of disease.


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## wjeanc (Nov 15, 2012)

Crochetnknit said:


> Yay. I wish all the first responders and health professionals who refused the vaccine would respect this as well.
> 
> I just don't understand why anyone would question taking it. They didn't question all the other disease vaccines!


My otherwise "intelligent" , smoker daughter's response to prior vaccines...she didn't have a choice as she was a child when this was foisted upon her, she doesn't want to put chemicals in her body.

WHAT???? I was insulted that she felt I would allow something to be done that would harm her. Reminded her that polio, small pox, etc were erradicated because of the vaccines she and others received.

And she has been told to stay the _ell away from me until she and her boyfriend are vaccinated or have acquired immunity the hard way.


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## Pittgirl (Jan 6, 2017)

Amen!


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## pretzelzy (Jan 9, 2015)

Though vaccinated myself, I am aware of the fact that it does not prevent me from either getting or spreading Covid to others. It would just possibly lessen the severity of the disease if I do get it. As a Vax person, I respect all stands on this issue but agree that no person should jeopardize others...that is why I still wear a mask. Unfortunately, too many people who have been vaccinated think and act as if they are free from getting Covid and that is not the case. We should all be aware that we could still be spreaders and get it ourselves - vaccinated or not. Just all be careful out there.


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

Sukiesue said:


> Yes, there is!
> 
> Luke 20:19-25 are the verses, render Caesar's things to Caesar! Interesting to read the content of those verses
> 
> Surely the unvaccinated are more at risk than vaccinated, so if that's their choice I'd prefer not to get too antagonistic about it.


Originally, those verses
said to pay your taxes.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

wjeanc said:


> My otherwise "intelligent" , smoker daughter's response to prior vaccines...she didn't have a choice as she was a child when this was foisted upon her, she doesn't want to put chemicals in her body.
> 
> WHAT???? I was insulted that she felt I would allow something to be done that would harm her. Reminded her that polio, small pox, etc were erradicated because of the vaccines she and others received.
> 
> And she has been told to stay the _ell away from me until she and her boyfriend are vaccinated or have acquired immunity the hard way.


It is similar to the ivermectin pushers. They do not want to put the toxins of a vaccine in their bodies but are willing to consume the toxins of a drug designed to poison parasites. 
If responsible testing proves that ivermectin works, then I am all for it, under a doctor's care. It has been a blessing for parasitic infestations of worms, that is absolutely true. Ivermectin is a toxin. Viruses are not worms. 
Peru handed out ivermectin freely to their citizens in a desperate try to save people, but the death rate there did not go down until the level of vaccination rose. 
Vaccination works


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## Dancin'n'Knittin' (Apr 17, 2014)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


My thoughts as well. We are not being told the truth.


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## Magna84 (Jun 26, 2013)

Thank you for posting this. It's exactly how I feel too...



Puppies101 said:


> I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.
> 
> You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,
> 
> ...


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## pate (Nov 19, 2016)

Oh I so agree and would like to add - what about all the “plant based” food replacing beef, chicken, etc. No one really knows what’s in that and it’s being consumed multiple times so “whatever” effects it may have can be cumulative.


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## patriciamb (Jul 13, 2011)

I think people should be able to decide for themselves and not be forced by the government to do something. If people have a religious or medical reason to refuse the vaccine, that is their choice. The government is trying to take over our lives. They say women have a right to control their bodies so they can have an abortion, yet we don't have a choice what we put in our bodies? Abortion is killing a baby, that is against the sixth commandment and God is judging our country on account of it.

If you had the vaccine, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people? That is supposed to protect you. Also at first they said vaccinated people did not need to wear a mask. 

All of these illegal immigrants are pouring into this country and are not required to be tested or vaccinated. How does that make sense?

Are we trusting in God or the vaccine?


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## loisthornton (Aug 5, 2012)

If they had been politicized then like the Covid vaccine is now, we would still be dying from smallpox and polio. ALL of our freedoms have limits. And saying it is a matter of personal freedom not to get vaccinated is in the same category as saying it's a matter of personal freedom to drive like a maniac, wave a gun around, pollute the water supply or whatever else you can think of to put your fellow beings at risk.


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Puppies101, I can't thank you enough for your wonderful and wise post!

Hazel


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## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

Great message


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


I completely agree with you. When I read about the poor man who was refused treatment by so many hospitals because their beds were filled with unvaccinated and unmasked COVID patients, and the poor man died (no, he did not have COVID), I was sickened and deeply saddened.

Hazel


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## B4 (Jan 30, 2013)

Puppies101 said:


> I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.
> 
> You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,
> 
> ...


I would like to see this flashed across the TV stations whenever there's a commercial, Facebook could help also, whenever something negative is spewed, that this comes up after there first sentence.


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## Dancin'n'Knittin' (Apr 17, 2014)

patriciamb said:


> I think people should be able to decide for themselves and not be forced by the government to do something. If people have a religious or medical reason to refuse the vaccine, that is their choice. The government is trying to take over our lives. They say women have a right to control their bodies so they can have an abortion, yet we don't have a choice what we put in our bodies? Abortion is killing a baby, that is against the sixth commandment and God is judging our country on account of it.
> 
> If you had the vaccine, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people? That is supposed to protect you. Also at first they said vaccinated people did not need to wear a mask.
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## Dancin'n'Knittin' (Apr 17, 2014)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> I completely agree with you. When I read about the poor man who was refused treatment by so many hospitals because their beds were filled with unvaccinated and unmasked COVID patients, and the poor man died (no, he did not have COVID), I was sickened and deeply saddened.
> 
> Hazel


And you believe this?


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


Regarding the pilot who allegedly hung a flag from his plane: Research on that topic is ongoing. Thus far, the truth of it has not been confirmed.

Please do your research before you post rumors here. Thank you.

As to the Heritage Foundation: Please go to its "About" page and you will find that it is a _conservative_ think tank. Quite obviously, its opinions are biased.

Here's an older New York Times article on the Heritage Foundation for your perusal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/magazine/trump-government-heritage-foundation-think-tank.html

Please do not use questionable sources and claim that they are "truth."

Hazel


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Dancin'n'Knittin' said:


> And you believe this?


I don't "believe" this. I have researched this, and I _know_ this. Here's just one source of many:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/12/alabama-ray-demonia-hospitals-icu/

The man was turned away by 43 hospitals because there was no room for him. Why? Beds and ICUs were filled with COVID cases. Nine out of ten COVID cases at the ICUs where I live are people who have not been vaccinated and/or have not worn masks.

Please do some research before you post. Please cease relying on conspiracy theories, rumors, and "alternative facts." Thank you.

Hazel


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## MaryKins (Oct 15, 2013)

well said. I'm going to "steal" this and pass in on. Hope that's OK.
Thanks, Mary


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


First, if you had COVID once, didn't you then acquire "natural immunity"? If so, why did you get COVID again?

Second, the Cleveland Clinic has done research on natural immunity. Here's a report from one newspaper:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/is-coronavirus-natural-immunity-enough-protection/95-a2f9a5ee-d74e-46d6-a092-2296c445bd43

And here is the Cleveland Clinic's report:

https://newsroom.clevelandclinic.org/2021/06/09/cleveland-clinic-statement-on-previous-covid-19-infection-research/

Hazel


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

I've read a couple pages of this discussion. I am finding any number of rumors, conspiracy theories, "alternative facts," and completely unresearched opinions.

Please folks: Before you post, take a moment to do some research. Please stop spreading fake news.

And now that I've read enough on this topic to know that rumors and untruths are still running rampant, I will "unwatch" this discussion.

Hazel


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

There will always be whackadoodles claiming to be "experts" who make claims which are the opposite of what reputable, qualified scientists and doctors say. And there are always the self styled "mavericks" who will take the word of said whackadoodles over the word of reliable scientists who follow the science. So be it. As the anti vaxxers die off, our collective gene pool will move in a better direction. Meanwhile all of us who value our lives and health will continue to avoid crowds and wear our masks when we are among strangers as well as *get our miraculous vaccines.*


kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


So you've had it twice. What makes you think you won't get it again or pass it on to someone else?


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


Based on what I have read on the development there is no single creator but rather the work of many over decades. Perhaps you could share your sources!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

ade said:


> Well, I am double vaxxed and have some unvaxxed friends. I consider that they are more at risk from me, who could be covered in covid germs from public exposure, but safer due to the vax status. My concern is that the more the virus finds open invitations from unvaxed people, the more dangerous and invasive it could become, possibly beyond prevention by older vaccines designed to quell covid that hasn't mutated to a more virulent strain.
> 
> As for treatment, I believe we should have set up vast isolation hospitals in tents, or ocean liners, well away from dense populations, to try to prevent spread. Even in 1918, they had field hospitals.
> 
> ...


Imagining your post to be at least partially taken from somewhere on the internet - which it seems not to be - I came across an interesting article: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1237535

(Maybe someday I'll be able to form as cogent a post as yours. I'm forever hopeful.)


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## k2p3-knit-on (Oct 24, 2012)

l had the shots and booster. I need a haircut but the hairdresser I like best "slipped" when she said she hasn't been vaccinated. I can't risk going for a haircut -- I need to visit a relative in a hospital often and God Forbid I might carry it there! Hope I look good in braids.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

If only those who refuse vaccination for malicious reasons died, this would work. But they take innocents with them, people with health issues that prevent vaccination, people with immune issues, people who can't get a hospital bed for non-covid medical emergencies, people whose only sin is trusting the wrong people. 
These misled people who listen to whackadoodles, medical "experts" (who graduated at the bottom .05% of their classes), and self styled know-it-alls are not the only ones dying. And I highly suspect that most of the people leading the charge of rebellion against vaccination, (or anything else useful,) the ones furthering their own agendas by fueling the conspiracy theories and originating deadly misinformation, are themselves fully vaccinated (plus have access to the best possible health care). The ones mainly responsible for all of these deaths are not often the ones paying the price.



MarilynKnits said:


> There will always be whackadoodles claiming to be "experts" who make claims which are the opposite of what reputable, qualified scientists and doctors say. And there are always the self styled "mavericks" who will take the word of said whackadoodles over the word of reliable scientists who follow the science. So be it. As the anti vaxxers die off, our collective gene pool will move in a better direction. Meanwhile all of us who value our lives and health will continue to avoid crowds and wear our masks when we are among strangers as well as *get our miraculous vaccines.*


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


For God's sake, where do I start? The government is not forcing anyone to be vaccinated, but for their own employees. It is up to the employer and employees still have the option, get the vaccine or look elsewhere for employment (plenty of openings everywhere). Airplanes do not have windows that open, so the photo you saw was fake, unless it was a little single engine experimental aircraft privately owned. Government, again, is not making the demands. If an employer or place of business does not allow un-vaxxed people to work there or enter, the people provide their own proof; no one is breaking into anyone's health records. Laws protect. IRS has always known your bank records.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

peppered said:


> I totally agree with you but this is wrong crowd here to talk about it.
> You know that kids in Europe are getting sick more than usual? Doctors saying that all the mask wearing and all isolation messed up their immune system. You are up and about, your immune system gets stronger.
> And about the Amish? They have herd immunity now.


Not sure where you get your information, but if European children are getting sick, it is not because of masks.


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## jansews (Jan 27, 2015)

Looks like lots of people agree with this statement and I definitely agree wholeheartedly as JJ said.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

jditlin said:


> … Justice John Marshall Harlan explained that the Constitution did not allow Americans always to behave however they chose. "*Real liberty for all could not exist,*" Harlan wrote in his majority opinion, *if people could act "regardless of the injury that may be done to others.*"


Wise man!! 
Too bad there are so many who protest, deny, and resist the science.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

knovice knitter said:


> For God's sake, where do I start? The government is not forcing anyone to be vaccinated, but for their own employees. It is up to the employer and employees still have the option, get the vaccine or look elsewhere for employment (plenty of openings everywhere). Airplanes do not have windows that open, so the photo you saw was fake, unless it was a little single engine experimental aircraft privately owned. Government, again, is not making the demands. If an employer or place of business does not allow un-vaxxed people to work there or enter, the people provide their own proof; no one is breaking into anyone's health records. Laws protect. IRS has always known your bank records.


I agree with you, the government is saying get vaccinated or get tested regularly. That protects co-workers and helps stem the swell of the disease. As signers of your paychecks it is their right to do so.

Every employer should be able to require proof of vaccination or regular covid19 testing without fear of reprisal. If they don't have requirements, what is their liability if some of their other workers, or their dependents, die because of not making these requirements?

Why would anyone, in good concience, refuse testing? Why would anyone want to give the virus to their co-workers, who might be protected themselves but may have small children or vulnerable parents that they go home to each day? If people feel that it is their right to put others in jeopardy, maybe they should find solitary professions. I believe that there are a lot of openings as crematory operators and grave diggers these days.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> There will always be whackadoodles claiming to be "experts" who make claims which are the opposite of what reputable, qualified scientists and doctors say. And there are always the self styled "mavericks" who will take the word of said whackadoodles over the word of reliable scientists who follow the science. So be it. As the anti vaxxers die off, our collective gene pool will move in a better direction. Meanwhile all of us who value our lives and health will continue to avoid crowds and wear our masks when we are among strangers as well as *get our miraculous vaccines.*


I must add that what the wackadoodles seem to forget is that their idiol, their lord and master, Trump and his entire family were one of the first group to get vaccinated in January as soon as the FDA gave emergency approval. Trump, the liar-in-chief, who called Covid a hoax and said it would be gone in a few months (while hundreds of thousands Americans died a horrible death because he refused to acknowledge the reality of this deadly disease and take action) - Yes, that Trump.... the Trump who was first in line to get the vaccine - in secret, I might add, because he still would not admit to the American people that he knew it was real, he knew it was deadly and he had knowlingly lied about it for months and months. He certainly didn't care about you, his loyal supporters, but he sure did care about himself....as always.


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## mollyannhad (Feb 1, 2011)

You are so right. I got my vaccines!


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## Mollie (Feb 23, 2011)

It takes far less energy to go get the shots than it does to whine about your constitutional rights.


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## Islandlady49 (Apr 5, 2017)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


AMEN!!!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

k2p3-knit-on said:


> l had the shots and booster. I need a haircut but the hairdresser I like best "slipped" when she said she hasn't been vaccinated. I can't risk going for a haircut -- I need to visit a relative in a hospital often and God Forbid I might carry it there! *Hope I look good in braids.*


Braids are good!! :sm23: :sm24:


----------



## shirleyoboe (Feb 21, 2012)

I do NOT respect the choice to NOT be vaccinated!
Why should I?


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

If you're not vaccinated....no respect for you!


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

pattibe said:


> I must add that what the wackadoodles seem to forget is that their idiol, their lord and master, Trump and his entire family were one of the first group to get vaccinated in January as soon as the FDA gave emergency approval. Trump, the liar-in-chief, who called Covid a hoax and said it would be gone in a few months (while hundreds of thousands Americans died a horrible death because he refused to acknowledge the reality of this deadly disease and take action) - Yes, that Trump.... the Trump who was first in line to get the vaccine - in secret, I might add, because he still would not admit to the American people that he knew it was real, he knew it was deadly and he had knowlingly lied about it for months and months. He certainly didn't care about you, his loyal supporters, but he sure did care about himself....as always.


You are so right in everything you wrote...and if that Orange Clown had (I shudder here) won the election most of us would be dead since he never believed in wearing a mask & certainly wouldn't have promoted the vaccine like President Biden has done..

How those Trumpy folks don't see this is just beyond words & they beyond help!


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

MoCoop said:


> I agree with you, the government is saying get vaccinated or get tested regularly. That protects co-workers and helps stem the swell of the disease. As signers of your paychecks it is their right to do so.
> 
> Every employer should be able to require proof of vaccination or regular covid19 testing without fear of reprisal. If they don't have requirements, what is their liability if some of their other workers, or their dependents, die because of not making these requirements?
> 
> Why would anyone, in good concience, refuse testing? Why would anyone want to give the virus to their co-workers, who might be protected themselves but may have small children or vulnerable parents that they go home to each day? If people feel that it is their right to put others in jeopardy, maybe they should find solitary professions. I believe that there are a lot of openings as crematory operators and grave diggers these days.


I love your post....because of an idiot co-worker my daughter & many of her staff caught Covid (bf the vaccine) from this person cause she thought she was doing everyone a favor by coming to work with what she thought was a bad cold!
People are so inconsiderate that rules/regulations (something) has to be in place to stop these nitwits!!!


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Who was it who said (approximately) "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." ?
I would add, your right to be an incubator for a lethal, highly contageous disease ends where the air that I breathe begins.
Get vaccinated or stay home forever.


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## eikeat (Feb 12, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> Who was it who said (approximately) "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose." ?
> I would add, your right to be an incubator for a lethal, highly contageous disease ends where the air that I breathe begins.
> Get vaccinated or stay home forever.


Very well said.


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## Sunny70 (Jul 25, 2014)

Thank you,I just passed it on too!


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren't vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day - now down to under 300 - could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187
Unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, new research has found, bolstering evidence that the inoculations continue to provide powerful protection, even against the delta variant.

The latest studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday also found that vaccinated people were nearly five times less likely to get infected and 10 times less likely to get so sick they ended up in the hospital. https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

knovice knitter said:


> Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren't vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day - now down to under 300 - could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187
> Unvaccinated people are 11 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than those who are fully vaccinated, new research has found, bolstering evidence that the inoculations continue to provide powerful protection, even against the delta variant.
> 
> The latest studies from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released on Friday also found that vaccinated people were nearly five times less likely to get infected and 10 times less likely to get so sick they ended up in the hospital. https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely


Great links. We are also tuned into international news, good news of the effectiveness of the vaccine is being reported in many countries.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

spinningjennie said:


> So we shouldn't treat those people with self inflicted health problems smoking, drinking, obese etc. There is no difference. Didn't the Nazis do something similar. Slippery slope I fear.
> Yes I am vaccinated.


No, the willfully unvaccinated should be treated, but *not* given priority over other medical needs - heart attack, accident, surgery, chronic diseases, etc.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

patriciamb said:


> … *Are we trusting in God or the vaccine?*


We only have the vaccine by the Grace of God. 
If one believes that God is the source of all Good and Life, then it only follows that He is the source of the generations of scientists whose knowledge and study have culminated in the development of the vaccine, and yet to be developed vaccines and treatments.


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## marciawm (Jun 2, 2015)

Well written message.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


There are diseases that don't confer immunity by having them.

This pandemic seems to be one of them.

People who have had it are catching it again.

The fact that you think you had it twice proves that.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

sandj said:


> Forcing people? I heard something about if you go to a ball game stadium to being vaccinated for game. Something about it being required. I know a lady who is about 90 pounds and got sick from a vaccine and then getting 2 boosters. I think for her body size that was to much! ????


Well that really doesnt make sense does it WHEN kids from 5 yrs old can get the vax.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Susie2016 said:


> You know, the government is going about this ALL THE WRONG WAY. Trying to force people is NOT the right way. It only makes people more stubborn. And I respect their right to choose not to get the vaccine. Had the government concentrated on education programs and being nice to people, perhaps they would have accomplished things a lot better than this heavy-handed way of firing employees who don't choose to get the vaccine.
> 
> I saw a picture of a Southwest pilot hanging a "Don't Tread on Me" flag out his airplane's window. And I agree with him. Most of those pilots are ex-military and they know that they fought for our right to do as we wish.
> 
> ...


I agree with your comments on education vs punishment, but education is not working as too many deny reality. And it isn't as if people haven't had the opportunity to learn in the last year and a half.

And I find your comments about "military pilots" absurd. No one joins the military and gives up huge amounts of their own personal freedoms to allow idiots (my term) to do whatever they wish, that is anarchy and so far from military discipline and thinking as can be imagined. If you join the military, either by accepting a commission or by enlisting you giving the military (i.e. government) permission to immunize you in whatever way they chose. Until very modern times more combatants died of disease than from injuries. During Desert Storm the contingency hospital I was assigned to had more patients from measles than war injuries, no deaths but a good example of why the military is so pro immunizations. Large numbers of unrelated people living in very close quarters is prime conditions for spreading disease and lowering military readiness.

And re: other comments. While the vaccines were still being tested it was known and communicated that they weren't 100% effective (nothing can be, based on individual physiology and immune response), if someone has had even a middle school biology they should know that viruses mutate and different strains are more prevalent at different times.

So I didn't get immunized to keep from getting Covid (again) I got immunized to LOWER my chances of dying from it. When I am eligible I will get the booster and if getting it annually decreases my risk of dying from Covid I'll get the shot annually just as I do the flu vaccine and as I get pneumonia vaccine periodically. There are lots of nasty ways to die, I'll do what I can to avoid dying while gasping and clawing for breath while drowning in my own fluids.

And while I mask and social distance mainly to protect others, the fact that for a year and a half (the first time in my adult life) I have had NO respiratory infection of any type, tells me that it is working to my benefit also.

So get immunized or don't, but stay out of my air space and don't accost me for following the most recent scientific findings.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

patriciamb said:


> I think people should be able to decide for themselves and not be forced by the government to do something. If people have a religious or medical reason to refuse the vaccine, that is their choice. The government is trying to take over our lives. They say women have a right to control their bodies so they can have an abortion, yet we don't have a choice what we put in our bodies? Abortion is killing a baby, that is against the sixth commandment and God is judging our country on account of it.
> 
> If you had the vaccine, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people? That is supposed to protect you. Also at first they said vaccinated people did not need to wear a mask.
> 
> ...


Just shut up. You are deflecting. Immigrants have absolutely nothing to do with Covid. They are monitoring this at the border and refusing admittance into the country if they are sick. I'm guessing you have no problem with Canadians crossing the border or immigrants from Europe. If that is the case, your problem is racism. Abortion has nothing to do with Covid. If there is a God, I'd assume he gave scientists a brain for a reason. I am not afraid of unvaccinated people. I just don't want to be around such selfish individuals who are making others and themselves ill and hogging hospital beds for people who need them (heart patients, accident patients, etc.)


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## mitzysviolet (Jul 20, 2016)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


YES, YES, YES! I agree with original post and all who agree with it, and with this one.
:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

knovice knitter said:


> Just shut up. You are deflecting. Immigrants have absolutely nothing to do with Covid. They are monitoring this at the border and refusing admittance into the country if they are sick. I'm guessing you have no problem with Canadians crossing the border or immigrants from Europe. If that is the case, your problem is racism. Abortion has nothing to do with Covid. If there is a God, I'd assume he gave scientists a brain for a reason. I am not afraid of unvaccinated people. I just don't want to be around such selfish individuals who are making others and themselves ill and hogging hospital beds for people who need them (heart patients, accident patients, etc.)


Actually KK there has been a problem with Canadians crossing your land border. We opened our border to Americans in August but yours is still closed to us. Rather ironic as our fully vaccinated population is 72.077% as at today. The corresponding number in the US is 56.5%. It would seem that the wrong side has been opened!


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## niru (Oct 3, 2012)

Very true. I loved it.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


I am with you. I had COVID in February with no symptoms. Bless my Rh negative blood. Had my blood tested for antibodies in April and had lots. Just had my blood taken yesterday for another antibody test. Should have the results tomorrow. I was naturally immune to Smallpox and have never had the flu. I not only have Rh negative blood, but a terrific immune system.


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## eppe (Feb 14, 2014)

me too



LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


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## eppe (Feb 14, 2014)

so how long does your immunity last? do you know?



peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


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## eppe (Feb 14, 2014)

if you had it two times, what happened to your naturally acquired immunity? why did you get infected a second time?


peppered said:


> I had covid, possibly 2x and have naturally acquired immunity.
> I only wish that people understand it and respected it too.


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## oblique (Apr 10, 2019)

Never truer words spoken, Puppies101. I concur 100%


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## eppe (Feb 14, 2014)

what is the source of this information? Please provide it.



peppered said:


> I totally agree with you but this is wrong crowd here to talk about it.
> You know that kids in Europe are getting sick more than usual? Doctors saying that all the mask wearing and all isolation messed up their immune system. You are up and about, your immune system gets stronger.
> And about the Amish? They have herd immunity now.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

KateLyn11 said:


> … And while I mask and social distance mainly to protect others, the fact that for a year and a half (the first time in my adult life) *I have had NO respiratory infection of any type*, tells me that it is working to my benefit also.
> 
> So get immunized or don't, but stay out of my air space and don't accost me for following the most recent scientific findings.


Other than a nearly constantly dripping nose, that's been my experience too. Amazing! Not wearing out my nose with blowing, and not running through a box of tissues every few days! If constant mask-wearing does that for me, I'll never again leave my house without one on my face!


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

patriciamb said:


> I think people should be able to decide for themselves and not be forced by the government to do something. If people have a religious or medical reason to refuse the vaccine, that is their choice. The government is trying to take over our lives. They say women have a right to control their bodies so they can have an abortion, yet we don't have a choice what we put in our bodies? Abortion is killing a baby, that is against the sixth commandment and God is judging our country on account of it.
> 
> If you had the vaccine, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people? That is supposed to protect you. Also at first they said vaccinated people did not need to wear a mask.
> 
> ...


God has nothing to do with the issue!


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## pengwensgranny (Aug 3, 2011)

That sums up exactly how I and my family feel.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

spins2knit said:


> God has nothing to do with the issue!


OH HELL NO !!
God has everything to do with this. He created man to have the ability to learn about science and be able to make LIFE SAVING vaccines.
And He has again this time; Moderna, Johnson and Johnson and Pfizer--- all the great scientists came up with vaccines to keep us alive during a Pandemic.

Sadly God cant fix STUPID !!! aka anti-vaxers !!!

Again- JMHO


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

patriciamb said:


> I think people should be able to decide for themselves and not be forced by the government to do something. If people have a religious or medical reason to refuse the vaccine, that is their choice. The government is trying to take over our lives. They say women have a right to control their bodies so they can have an abortion, yet we don't have a choice what we put in our bodies? Abortion is killing a baby, that is against the sixth commandment and God is judging our country on account of it.
> 
> If you had the vaccine, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people? That is supposed to protect you. Also at first they said vaccinated people did not need to wear a mask.
> 
> ...


So if it is wrong to kill people, why is it right for you to refuse vaccination, provide a host and breeding ground for a virulent virus, then go into public without a mask and infect a number of other people, some of whom will die because of your actions?
I didn't get vaccinated because of the government, I got vaccinated because of science. I don't want someone to die just because I really, really hate needles and hate getting vaccinations. I want to be a part of the solution to this pandemic, I want to do my part, however small it is, to end it.
Just suck it up and do it. Get vaccinated because science is showing that it saves lives. 
Thank God that vaccine science, and the people dedicated to ending disease, were right at the point of research and development that made it possible to get this vaccine out in a timely manner. 
Thank God that enough people listened to the science so that the vaccine could be distributed so quickly and free in most places.
I trust in God and look! There is a vaccine available that has already saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
If that isn't a miracle, what is?
For the first time we have a safe and effective vaccine right when we need it. 
All we need is fewer people who decide what shape a miracle should come in rather than accepting it as the gift that it is.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

LEE1313 said:


> OH HELL NO !!
> God has everything to do with this. He created man to have the ability to learn about science and be able to make LIFE SAVING vaccines.
> And He has again this time; Moderna, Johnson and Johnson and Pfizer--- all the great scientists came up with vaccines to keep us alive during a Pandemic.
> 
> ...


Only if you believe in him!


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## silkandwool (Dec 5, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


My thoughts also!


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> Only if you believe in him!


Either way, believer or non, the science, the facts, all the information from around the world point to the fact that this vaccine is safe, it does work, and we all need to get it.

I feel that religion is personal and private and I very seldom say anything about it. I respect everyone's beliefs and feel that if whatever you believe or don't believe in makes humankind grow and be wiser and kinder to each other and everything else, then that is a good thing.

I'm not arguing with you at all here, just clarifying my own stance.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Granny41 said:


> Actually KK there has been a problem with Canadians crossing your land border. We opened our border to Americans in August but yours is still closed to us. Rather ironic as our fully vaccinated population is 72.077% as at today. The corresponding number in the US is 56.5%. It would seem that the wrong side has been opened!


I'm sorry to hear that. I am willing to wager that PatLamb's problem has everything to do with the southern border. To open our Northern border would make opening the Southern border a necessity and Republicans would not allow for that. If I, an American citizen, would cross to your beautiful country for a holiday, would I be able to cross back into the U.S.?


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Evie RM said:


> I am with you. I had COVID in February with no symptoms. Bless my Rh negative blood. Had my blood tested for antibodies in April and had lots. Just had my blood taken yesterday for another antibody test. Should have the results tomorrow. I was naturally immune to Smallpox and have never had the flu. I not only have Rh negative blood, but a terrific immune system.


So are you not vaccinated?


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## pretzelzy (Jan 9, 2015)

The anger and judging of other peoples beliefs is really off-the-wall. Do your own thing and don’t try to tell others what they have to do. this is still America and supposedly a free country


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## Dimples16 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nila said:


> Your freedom and rights stop at my body.If you are not vaccinated , stay the ___ell away from me. Nila


I agree 100%.


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## Dimples16 (Jan 28, 2011)

I


Puppies101 said:


> I saw this and it sums up exactly how I feel about everything at present.
> 
> You are not vaccinated, I respect your choice,
> 
> ...


I agree with this.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

pretzelzy said:


> The anger and judging of other peoples beliefs is really off-the-wall. Do your own thing and don't try to tell others what they have to do. this is still America and supposedly a free country


The freedom of citizens of this country does not include knowingly spreading communicable diseases that result in the death of other citizens, anymore than freedom includes the right to sit on an overpass and shoot people driving by underneath.

Freedom includes responsibility.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

pretzelzy said:


> The anger and judging of other peoples beliefs is really off-the-wall. Do your own thing and don't try to tell others what they have to do. this is still America and supposedly a free country


Your freedom STOPS at me "space". You dont have the freedom to jeopardize my health.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

MoCoop said:


> Either way, believer or non, the science, the facts, all the information from around the world point to the fact that this vaccine is safe, it does work, and we all need to get it.
> 
> I feel that religion is personal and private and I very seldom say anything about it. I respect everyone's beliefs and feel that if whatever you believe or don't believe in makes humankind grow and be wiser and kinder to each other and everything else, then that is a good thing.
> 
> I'm not arguing with you at all here, just clarifying my own stance.


Ordinarily I would agree with you,but when someone is prosletysing , it is fair game.


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## shepherd (Feb 25, 2012)

MMWRay said:


> I am being mean but that new medication to treat Covid should be given to vaccinated persons, not those that refused the 'medication' of a vaccine.


Why? Just because you decided differently? If there had been a safe treatment that was approved, I very well might not have been vaccinated. We both gambled.


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## shirleyoboe (Feb 21, 2012)

No--you are incorrect. 
Having the COVID-19 virus does gives one some immunity. So does getting the vaccines. 
HOWEVER, the more the virus spreads, the more variants we are exposed to. 
The vaccines protect from serious disease/complications/death. They don't guarantee you won't get the virus....(Neither does the Shingrix vaccine, for example....)


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## Marjorie1902 (Aug 9, 2016)

ChristineM said:


> Absolutely agree wholeheartedly with everything that you have written! I am an RN recently retired after 55 years..so I have been a career nurse..totally and absolutely devoted to my job, which I have always loved! But retirement doesn't mean rest relax put your feet up to the Regulatory Authority! I received an email from AHPRA saying that I am now on the Subregister and the Government will pay my Registration fees..but not my Professional Undemnity Insurance fees which are around $1,000 per year! The immediate email after this advice, was one ..again from the Government ..advising that I was now double Covid vaccinated as well as having had the Influenza vacc! And Big Brother is alive and well!!! The SA Government says that they now have another 1,000 Nurses to work when the huge influx of cases occurs once our borders are opened! But they fail to tell the Public in their propaganda, that they are calling back recent retirees to fill the gap! We have done our time and I was always doing a lifetime of double shifts and working on PDO's etc. Now ....younger Nurses are complaining about it being unfair and they are burnt out! Hello??? That is what my life was like and my retirement is just that thank you! RETIREMENT! If people choose to not have vaccinations, then don't get taken to hospitals and take up a bed to which they are not entitled to! All of my "peer group" feel exactly the same about the non vaccers too. Stay home and look after themselves! As for me being reregistered again???..well it is a tough call to comply with this Directive!!!
> 
> 55 years? I would say it's time to take care of yourself! let the younger ones do their share


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I agree. Last night I saw on US TV. a Mum whose 10 year old daughter had just died of Covid..one of you can take a bow for that.


klrober said:


> If you're not vaccinated....no respect for you!


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

and little else


Evie RM said:


> I am with you. I had COVID in February with no symptoms. Bless my Rh negative blood. Had my blood tested for antibodies in April and had lots. Just had my blood taken yesterday for another antibody test. Should have the results tomorrow. I was naturally immune to Smallpox and have never had the flu. I not only have Rh negative blood, but a terrific immune system.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

It is not free, wise up,no country is free.You have laws about speeding, guns, going to school,paying taxes,drinking in public, not killing , robbing or maiming someone. If your were free you could do all of those things.Personally I wouldn't want to live in what you perceive as a free country.I believe that any country has the right to mandate a vax to save the majority and I think it will evetually come to that in many countries.. free or not..right now non vaxxers are free to kill via a virus, what kind of person does that make them. I would rather choose than be made to do what is the right thing for your country.Non Vaxxers.. how would you feel iif you were responsible for killing the 10 year old girl from last nights news. I dare you to answer this specific question.I would take book on you not doing so thoug.


pretzelzy said:


> The anger and judging of other peoples beliefs is really off-the-wall. Do your own thing and don't try to tell others what they have to do. this is still America and supposedly a free country


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## 6M2Creations (Nov 1, 2012)

Amen!


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Bang on freedom does include responsibility.

I have seen a lot about being judgemental on this topic.I have spent a life time trying very hard not to be judgemental..well I am now.I think the non vaxxers , other than medical exemptions are selfish,uncaring, potential murderers 
How's that for being judememental. I will stand up to be counted.!! get the shot for everyones sake.


MoCoop said:


> The freedom of citizens of this country does not include knowingly spreading communicable diseases that result in the death of other citizens, anymore than freedom includes the right to sit on an overpass and shoot people driving by underneath.
> 
> Freedom includes responsibility.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

LEE1313 said:


> I agree 100%.
> I would add that ALL unvax people MUST sign a release form that says they will NOT seek medical attention/take up space in hospitals/use life saving drugs/waste the time of doctors and nurses.
> 
> JMHO


I agree also. No patient who is vaccinated and tried to protect themselves and others by their actions should have wait for care or in some cases go without because of the unvaccinated.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> Ordinarily I would agree with you,but when someone is prosletysing , it is fair game.


yes, that is why I stressed my own non judgement of your position, no worries


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

kemu said:


> One questions taking a shot, when one knows they are being lied to. The creator of the m RNA factor which is in these shots, won't take the shots himself. He has come out and stated the truth is not being told to the Public. Those who are vaccinated are living under a 'false' sense of security. Antibodies don't last, they still can get Covid 19 and spread it to others. NO ONE knows the long term affects of these shots. Those who don't take the shot are wise. Always investigate, question it's your body, your choice. I AM a health professional and choose 'not' to take a shot that has proven non effective and has caused numerous deaths and severe side effects.


IF you really are a health professional ( ? ) I sure as heck would not want you to treat me ! Non effective and causes death and severe side effects????

:sm25: :sm25: :sm25:


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## Evicka (Jul 15, 2019)

I agree and applaud!


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments?? 
If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this


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## midDinCA (Aug 29, 2014)

Freedom requires responsibility. That means protecting ALL the people. The vaccines do that! I do not believe that one who has not taken the vaccines for whatever reason, and then is diagnosed with COVID should put everyone else in danger when the sick COVID patient who had a choice, takes a bed, medical care, etc. while someone who needs cancer treatment, a surgery has to wait or be sent elsewhere if there is a bed. 

Tell Fox News to stop telling people not to take vaccines. Why are they so anxious to kill off their own viewership? Or Republican politicians who are killing off their voters by telling them not to take vaccines? Mandate means you take it or no job, no travel, no meals out, etc., etc. The vaccines and masks and mandates are for the common good-for everyone! What's wrong with that?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I am willing to wager that PatLamb's problem has everything to do with the southern border. To open our Northern border would make opening the Southern border a necessity and Republicans would not allow for that. If I, an American citizen, would cross to your beautiful country for a holiday, would I be able to cross back into the U.S.?


Probably, after getting a not-free Covid test.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

farmlady said:


> Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments??
> If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
> Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this


I never thought I could be so ANGRY at a group of selfish people. But I am ANGRY. I am tired of how long this is going on.
How those of us who have done everything right, still live in a "small world cocoon" of friends- not going out-not socializing-
All because of "unknown" reasons that they wont get the vax {{ my son/family included}}.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> The freedom of citizens of this country *does not include knowingly spreading communicable diseases that result in the death of other citizens*, anymore than freedom includes the right to sit on an overpass and shoot people driving by underneath.
> 
> Freedom includes responsibility.


Typhoid Mary comes to mind. 
History: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon
She was NOT permitted to continue spreading the disease.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

farmlady said:


> Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments??
> If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
> *Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this*


You are not alone.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

knovice knitter said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. I am willing to wager that PatLamb's problem has everything to do with the southern border. To open our Northern border would make opening the Southern border a necessity and Republicans would not allow for that. If I, an American citizen, would cross to your beautiful country for a holiday, would I be able to cross back into the U.S.?


You would have to pose that question to a US Border Security Officer. Three weeks ago my GD who lives in Virginia drove up to look after me as I was under the weather. She is a Canadian citizen and a permanent resident in the US. She had no problem crossing in either direction.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

farmlady said:


> Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments??
> If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
> Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this


Yes! Oxymoronic isn't it!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

spins2knit said:


> Yes! Oxymoronic isn't it!


And those morons will die, while pleading for both oxygen and the vaccine.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

farmlady said:


> Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments??
> If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
> Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this


I have been reading that families of antivax covid victims are arguing with the nurses, denying that their loved ones had covid, even while the nurses are putting those loved ones into a body bag. I've read that anti vax covid victims argue that they don't have it right up until they can no longer breathe for themselves and are put on a ventilator. That level of denial is incomprehensible to a thinking person.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I have been reading that families of antivax covid victims are arguing with the nurses, denying that their loved ones had covid, even while the nurses are putting those loved ones into a body bag. I've read that anti vax covid victims argue that they don't have it right up until they can no longer breathe for themselves and are put on a ventilator. That level of denial is incomprehensible to a thinking person.


Darwin wins. Sad that so many innocents are wiped out along the way. :sm13:


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Sorry JJ. just read the whole topic through again and found your reply.

Thank you for reminding me, you are of course right, it has been wrecking families etc for some time. It is like a hard shove in the back when it comes so close to home. Sorry if I sounded selfish, I'me not actually just slightly toppled a bit.

Thank you again XX Jeannine


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Sorry again, missed the link off..dong!!


Jessica-Jean said:


> Can? It has been wrecking homes, families, and lives from before the vaccine was released, and is still doing so where the virus survives and mutates among the unvaccinated.
> 
> Let that person go visit the unvaccinated, stay home in real quarantine (no exiting but for necessities and exercise) for at least two weeks, and only _then_, allow that dear one to visit you.
> 
> Good luck!


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Granny41 said:


> You would have to pose that question to a US Border Security Officer. Three weeks ago my GD who lives in Virginia drove up to look after me as I was under the weather. She is a Canadian citizen and a permanent resident in the US. She had no problem crossing in either direction.


I think that the rules change according to the situation. 
We had a Canadian woman request to take a short weekend seminar with us in August. She wanted to sign up for the class and then have us provide documentation showing that she was a student so that she would not have to show proof of vaccination or a recent negative covid test to pass the border.
As part of our requirement for attending our classes is proof of vaccination or a recent negative covid test we told her that we couldn't do that. She became quite angry and, of course, did not sign up for the seminar. We kind of think that she was using our class as a way to get across the border by going around the requirements, we are only about an hour's drive from the Canadian border so it would be quite convenient to cross there using our class to get a student waiver, and it would make it quite reasonable to drive rather than fly. I could be very rudely misjudging her, but I wonder if she would have actually ever showed up to the seminar if we had given her what she needed to cross the border? I wonder if she would have done a chargeback on the class fees, to boot?
We see a lot of Canadians come through here due to our location, they and all of the other Canadian people I have met and been friends with, are wonderful honest folks. I suppose every country has a few who behave in a way that most folks would find embarrassing.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> … I suppose every country has a few who behave in a way that most folks would find embarrassing.


Yes, and more than "a few". Canada mayn't have as many covidiots as the US, but it's probably proportional to each country's population.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> I think that the rules change according to the situation.
> We had a Canadian woman request to take a short weekend seminar with us in August. She wanted to sign up for the class and then have us provide documentation showing that she was a student so that she would not have to show proof of vaccination or a recent negative covid test to pass the border.
> As part of our requirement for attending our classes is proof of vaccination or a recent negative covid test we told her that we couldn't do that. She became quite angry and, of course, did not sign up for the seminar. We kind of think that she was using our class as a way to get across the border by going around the requirements, we are only about an hour's drive from the Canadian border so it would be quite convenient to cross there using our class to get a student waiver, and it would make it quite reasonable to drive rather than fly. I could be very rudely misjudging her, but I wonder if she would have actually ever showed up to the seminar if we had given her what she needed to cross the border? I wonder if she would have done a chargeback on the class fees, to boot?
> We see a lot of Canadians come through here due to our location, they and all of the other Canadian people I have met and been friends with, are wonderful honest folks. I suppose every country has a few who behave in a way that most folks would find embarrassing.


I neglected to mention that my GD is fully vaccinated and has been since early spring. She and her husband sussed out a pharmacy that was doing Pfizer vaccinations in southern Virginia several hours drive from their home. They snapped up two appointments each and made four separate long drives to get the shots. As a consequence she was able to cross the international--that and her Canadian citizenship and permanent residence in the US. She was not trying to avoid any COVID mandates. Of course she had to have a negative test (both ways) as well.


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## ria4crochet (May 28, 2016)

Totally agree.


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## JoRae (Feb 5, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> We only have the vaccine by the Grace of God.
> If one believes that God is the source of all Good and Life, then it only follows that He is the source of the generations of scientists whose knowledge and study have culminated in the development of the vaccine, and yet to be developed vaccines and treatments.


I like what you said. I'll share that with an antivaxer friend who believes in God and His goodness. I hope it gives her something to think about. Thank you.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Granny41 said:


> I neglected to mention that my GD is fully vaccinated and has been since early spring. She and her husband sussed out a pharmacy that was doing Pfizer vaccinations in southern Virginia several hours drive from their home. They snapped up two appointments each and made four separate long drives to get the shots. As a consequence she was able to cross the international--that and her Canadian citizenship and permanent residence in the US. She was not trying to avoid any COVID mandates. Of course she had to have a negative test (both ways) as well.


I actually assumed that she was vaccinated or it wouldn't have been so easy for her to cross the border. I hope that my post didn't infer anything else. She was coming to help you out and seems like a responsible young woman from the way you speak of her. A grandaughter to be proud of, for sure.
My example of people who cheat was a contrast to your example of how it can be done safely by good people trying to stop the spread. 
My other half is Swiss with permanent residency in the US, I know how much effort you put into making sure that everything is properly done on both sides of the border - it makes everything else easier.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Other than a nearly constantly dripping nose, that's been my experience too. Amazing! Not wearing out my nose with blowing, and not running through a box of tissues every few days! If constant mask-wearing does that for me, I'll never again leave my house without one on my face!


I still have asthma, I still have hay fever but NO respiratory infections. I won't say I'll never be without a mask, but I expect to be wearing one in crowds and in the winter for years to come, if not the rest of my life.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Something that helps me wearing a mask is using a couple of drops of Thieves essential oil blend on the nose area of the mask. It smells good and protected thieves from the plague, so what have I gotto lose.

I only use the pure oils produced by Young Living. www.youngliving.com
Because they are pure. And those going by that name on Amazon are fakes!


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

farmlady said:


> Question: Why do the unvaccinated who do not believe in the science produced vaccine rush to the Hospital when they get covid and expect to be treated and cured with the science backed treatments??
> If they do not believe in science why do they not just stay home and let nature take its course.
> Never thought I would feel about anything the way I do about this


Sometimes my heart just aches, that this has put people I care about on opposite sides, that there is needless strife, that they are listening to people who have no good in their hearts for their fellow human, it makes me physically ill.
I cannot understand how anyone can act that way, can willfully hurt others, can deny truth and follow a lie, it has broken my trust and made it very difficult to remain non-judgemental. The science in this whole thing is so easy to follow, the numbers add up. I am no scientist, I have a high school education, but I have a sister who is a microbiologist, friends who are doctors, I continually study science and learn as much as I can. Anyone can do this, and if you do, you put on the mask, you check with your doctor to be sure you are safe to be vaccinated, and if he/she says yes, you go ahead and get vaccinated.
Even the experience of wearing a mask has proven how effective they are. I have COPD, so wearing a mask was a concern. My other half is a woodworker so at first I wore those masks, I wore fabric masks, and then, as production was stepped up and they became available, I got the best masks I could. I clean them each time I go out, I change filters frequently - a dirty mask does no good, I wouldn't wear the same underwear every day, why would I wear a dirty mask?
The result? No colds, no flu, my chronic bronchitis has not flared up, even my allergies weren't as bad. The only time I had trouble was in the brief time after vaccinations before the Delta variant when it was judged to go maskless for a time - I caught a cold and had a bronchitis flare up. I started wearing a mask again and have stayed healthy.
So masks work, they have not harmed me, even though I do have breathing issues.
I got off on a tangent, sorry.
I am just heartbroken that so many people will die because some people, some of them dear to me, trust people who have no intention of using their heads for more than thinking of more lies to make people notice them. This is kind of a mass hysteria, people afraid of the wrong thing while the real thing, the virus, replicates in their bodies and mutates into every more virulent varients. I cannot understand and it hurts to see it.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> So are you not vaccinated?


I just had another anti-body test at my doctor's office on Wednesday. Got the results this morning. The antibodies in my blood have "increased" since April.

I have Rh negative blood that fights chronic COVID.
The anti-bodies in my blood are increasing.
I have had a terrific immune system my whole life.
My body's T-cells are doing their job.

No, I have not been vaccinated. I do wear a mask when out in public places and follow social distancing.


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## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Evie RM said:


> I just had another anti-body test at my doctor's office on Wednesday. Got the results this morning. The antibodies in my blood have "increased" since April.
> 
> I have Rh negative blood that fights chronic COVID.
> The anti-bodies in my blood are increasing.
> ...


 You are lucky, but hybrid immunity would likely be even better for you.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hybrid-immunity-people-covid-still-get-vaccinated-rcna1974

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
???????? ????????????????????'???? ????????????????, ???? ???????????????????? ???????? ????????????????????-???????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????? ???????????????? ????????????-????????????-???? ???????????????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????? ???????? ???????????????????????? ???????? ???????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????? ????????????????????-???????? ???????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? ????????????????????. ???????????????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????? ???????????????? ????????????????????-???????? ???????????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????? ???????????????? ????????????????????????????????, ???????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????, ???????????????? ???????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????.

It depends on how heavily you want to stack the odds in your favor.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Prism99 said:


> You are lucky, but hybrid immunity would likely be even better for you.
> https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/hybrid-immunity-people-covid-still-get-vaccinated-rcna1974
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
> ...


I think they are stacked in my favor pretty well. I am 78 years old and have never had the flu. When I had COVID in February, I had no symptoms at all. Not even a sniffle. So, I am very confident in my decision not to get the vaccine and will let my body do the good job it has always done.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

Evie RM said:


> I think they are stacked in my favor pretty well. I am 78 years old and have never had the flu. When I had COVID in February, I had no symptoms at all. Not even a sniffle. So, I am very confident in my decision not to get the vaccine and will let my body do the good job it has always done.


Every doctor I have heard or talked to and I am in the Pfizer Clinical Trial all advocate getting vaccinated. Getting Covid gives you a very short shelf life on immunity. Besides, what's the big deal. I have been shot 5 times now. 2 placebo, 2 real vaccine and the booster just this Tuesday. It takes less than 30 seconds, it does not hurt and now I am protected from a deadly disease and as a bonus, I am protecting everyone around me. The worst side affect was a sore arm at the injection site for a day or so. People are even going on the black market and paying for a fake Covid vaccine card when they can go anywhere and get the shot for free.....crazy.


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## Pocahontas (Apr 15, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> I think they are stacked in my favor pretty well. I am 78 years old and have never had the flu. When I had COVID in February, I had no symptoms at all. Not even a sniffle. So, I am very confident in my decision not to get the vaccine and will let my body do the good job it has always done.


You are blessed! And you are wise to make your decision based on how well you know your own body.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

pattibe said:


> Every doctor I have heard or talked to and I am in the Pfizer Clinical Trial all advocate getting vaccinated. Getting Covid gives you a very short shelf life on immunity. Besides, what's the big deal. I have been shot 5 times now. 2 placebo, 2 real vaccine and the booster just this Tuesday. It takes less than 30 seconds, it does not hurt and now I am protected from a deadly disease and as a bonus, I am protecting everyone around me. The worst side affect was a sore arm at the injection site for a day or so. People are even going on the black market and paying for a fake Covid vaccine card when they can go anywhere and get the shot for free.....crazy.


Total antibody levels start to wane six weeks after complete immunisation with Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines, and can reduce by more than 50 per cent over 10 weeks, according to study published in The Lancet journal.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Pocahontas said:


> You are blessed! And you are wise to make your decision based on how well you know your own body.


Thank you. I made a similar decision for my Osteoporosis in my right hip. My doctor prescribed Fosomax. However, when I read the adverse side effects of taking Fosamax, I decided not to take it. Instead, I started taking a Muti with added minerals and also started taking individual mineral supplements that are good for the bones. In addition, I increased the amount of Vitamin C and Vitamin D that I take and still take my calcium supplement. Yesterday I found out the results of my recent bone scan which showed that the Osteoporosis in my right hip is better.


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## Pocahontas (Apr 15, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> Thank you. I made a similar decision for my Osteoporosis in my right hip. My doctor prescribed Fosomax. However, when I read the adverse side effects of taking Fosamax, I decided not to take it. Instead, I started taking a Muti with added minerals and also started taking individual mineral supplements that are good for the bones. In addition, I increased the amount of Vitamin C and Vitamin D that I take and still take my calcium supplement. Yesterday I found out the results of my recent bone scan which showed that the Osteoporosis in my right hip is better.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Evie RM said:


> Thank you. I made a similar decision for my Osteoporosis in my right hip. My doctor prescribed Fosomax. However, when I read the adverse side effects of taking Fosamax, I decided not to take it. Instead, I started taking a Muti with added minerals and also started taking individual mineral supplements that are good for the bones. In addition, I increased the amount of Vitamin C and Vitamin D that I take and still take my calcium supplement. Yesterday I found out the results of my recent bone scan which showed that the Osteoporosis in my right hip is better.


And now your toilet and liver are clogged with water soluble vitamins.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> And now your toilet and liver are clogged with water soluble vitamins.


Self diagnosis is always better, doncha know?! ^^^^alert
I have a great immune system but I am vaccinated. And I have chosen to not take osteoporosis drugs or statins. I am not a guinea pig for pharma, but neither do I self diagnose or use Google as my medical advisor.


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## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Evie RM said:


> Thank you. I made a similar decision for my Osteoporosis in my right hip. My doctor prescribed Fosomax. However, when I read the adverse side effects of taking Fosamax, I decided not to take it. Instead, I started taking a Muti with added minerals and also started taking individual mineral supplements that are good for the bones. In addition, I increased the amount of Vitamin C and Vitamin D that I take and still take my calcium supplement. Yesterday I found out the results of my recent bone scan which showed that the Osteoporosis in my right hip is better.


 You should also be taking magnesium and Vitamin k-2. Magnesium helps absorption, and k-2 helps the calcium move from the blood into the bone. Hopefully you are taking calcium citrate, which is much more easily absorbed by the body than calcium chloride (which my husband says is basically chalk).

I too am rhesus-negative and very healthy (had the flu once, about 35 years ago). However, I have gotten the Covid vaccinations and booster because I want to stack the odds in my favor (and in favor of my immediate family) as much as possible. I would have done this even if my blood showed natural antibodies. Why? Because it makes me even less likely to contract Covid. My pregnant daughter is vaccinated, as is her husband who is a special education teacher. His students are too young to be vaccinated, so we all want to protect ourselves and each other as much as possible.

I am 75 years old and was diagnosed with osteopenia 30 years ago. Like you, I declined Fosamax type medications in favor of supplements, which appear to be doing a good job. However, I do not consider my decision in that situation to be at all like my decision about Covid vaccination. One is a highly communicable virus, while the other is a degenerative condition. My osteopenia put no one else at risk, for example. My family and I do not want to live in isolation; we want to freely socialize within our "bubble" and help each other out. So, we are all vaccinated and living with much reduced anxiety levels from a year ago.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> And now your toilet and liver are clogged with water soluble vitamins.


I take the capsule form. No problem there. Plus my doctor told me to make sure I take 1500 mg of Calcium and Vitamin D. I have told him what I am taking. My bones are benefitting.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Very sensible response One simply cannot compare the two.



Prism99 said:


> You should also be taking magnesium and Vitamin k-2. Magnesium helps absorption, and k-2 helps the calcium move from the blood into the bone. Hopefully you are taking calcium citrate, which is much more easily absorbed by the body than calcium chloride (which my husband says is basically chalk).
> 
> I too am rhesus-negative and very healthy (had the flu once, about 35 years ago). However, I have gotten the Covid vaccinations and booster because I want to stack the odds in my favor (and in favor of my immediate family) as much as possible. I would have done this even if my blood showed natural antibodies. Why? Because it makes me even less likely to contract Covid. My pregnant daughter is vaccinated, as is her husband who is a special education teacher. His students are too young to be vaccinated, so we all want to protect ourselves and each other as much as possible.
> 
> I am 75 years old and was diagnosed with osteopenia 30 years ago. Like you, I declined Fosamax type medications in favor of supplements, which appear to be doing a good job. However, I do not consider my decision in that situation to be at all like my decision about Covid vaccination. One is a highly communicable virus, while the other is a degenerative condition. My osteopenia put no one else at risk, for example. My family and I do not want to live in isolation; we want to freely socialize within our "bubble" and help each other out. So, we are all vaccinated and living with much reduced anxiety levels from a year ago.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> Self diagnosis is always better, doncha know?! ^^^^alert
> I have a great immune system but I am vaccinated. And I have chosen to not take osteoporosis drugs or statins. I am not a guinea pig for pharma, but neither do I self diagnose or use Google as my medical advisor.


I have a great immune system, too. I am 70 years old and on zero, zip, nada prescription medications. I do have COPD, chronic bronchitis aggravated by a constant post nasal drip, but I mangage it without meds - unless I get an infection and have to visit the doctor, then I follow instructions and take meds exactly until it clears. (Wearing a mask is great - no bacteria or viruses from other people means no infections in my upper respritory system, YAY!)

I am fully vaccinated, I studied all available information, my other half researched information from German speaking countries, I consulted the medical professionals that I know, did all the fact checking I could, watched the results as the first batch of people, medical workers, high risk people, etc. received their vaccinations - and then signed up to be vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.

The vaccine works, the side effects are within predicted limits, many many many many many lives are being saved.

I want this pandemic to end. I want the world to start healing. I want the state that I live in to move from being the worst, yes worst, tied for #50, state in the US of A, to being a place I can be safe and comfortable in. "Idaho ranked 48th in positive testing rates, 47th in highest hospitalization rate, tied for 50th in highest death rate and tied for 50th with highest transmission rate, the survey found." https://bonnercountydailybee.com/news/2021/oct/15/last-idaho-earns-covid-distinction-snp/

The only way we're going to get there is by vaccination - or try to go the natural immunity route and wade through piles of dead bodies after years of suffering.

I think vaccination is the better choice.


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## rujam (Aug 19, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I have a great immune system, too. I am 70 years old and on zero, zip, nada prescription medications. I do have COPD, chronic bronchitis aggravated by a constant post nasal drip, but I mangage it without meds - unless I get an infection and have to visit the doctor, then I follow instructions and take meds exactly until it clears. (Wearing a mask is great - no bacteria or viruses from other people means no infections in my upper respritory system, YAY!)
> 
> I am fully vaccinated, I studied all available information, my other half researched information from German speaking countries, I consulted the medical professionals that I know, did all the fact checking I could, watched the results as the first batch of people, medical workers, high risk people, etc. received their vaccinations - and then signed up to be vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.
> 
> ...


Hear, hear.


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## peppered (May 16, 2014)

Evie RM said:


> I just had another anti-body test at my doctor's office on Wednesday. Got the results this morning. The antibodies in my blood have "increased" since April.
> 
> I have Rh negative blood that fights chronic COVID.
> The anti-bodies in my blood are increasing.
> ...


That's what I had, T cell test.
If only people got over the vax hype immunity that goes slowly away and understood the other "side" of science. NATURAL immunity after many illnesses.

The ones asking why I got it 2x. I do not know. They say some get it again. Maybe different strain? First time doc told me that there is a strange virus going around and nobody knows what it is. My boss had it too. He was very ill for month and on lots of meds. It was not flu. They tasted him and the same results, some different virus.
All I know I am fine with mine TESTED immunity.
And if the jab is so wonderful, why is that people still freak out? You should have protection, right? Well, you'll see.
Seems a lot sick people are breakthrough.
We will see in near future who is better off.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

MoCoop said:


> I have a great immune system, too. I am 70 years old and on zero, zip, nada prescription medications. I do have COPD, chronic bronchitis aggravated by a constant post nasal drip, but I mangage it without meds - unless I get an infection and have to visit the doctor, then I follow instructions and take meds exactly until it clears. (Wearing a mask is great - no bacteria or viruses from other people means no infections in my upper respritory system, YAY!)
> 
> I am fully vaccinated, I studied all available information, my other half researched information from German speaking countries, I consulted the medical professionals that I know, did all the fact checking I could, watched the results as the first batch of people, medical workers, high risk people, etc. received their vaccinations - and then signed up to be vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.
> 
> ...


I'm with you. At 73, I am on a prescription blood pressure medication which I need and an otc one to keep a hiatal hernia from causing me to bleed to death, but my Doctor is fully behind my choices and knows I only show up as required or in actual need.

Otherwise I am in good health but not so stupid as to think I am either invincible or immortal. It has been years since I was seriously ill with either a cold or infection.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

You guys are so funny. You have no idea why some people do not want to get the vaccine. One reason is that they feel they have natural immunity from already having gotten COVID. Also, although the CDC say that getting the vaccine prevents you from getting a serious case of COVID, the CDC also says that a fully vaccinated person can catch COVID-----AND they can also be contagious and spread it. Here's the link. Scroll down to the part about "What We Know About Breakthrough Infections".

So some people feel that if you can catch COVID and spread it when NOT vaccinated.....

And you can also catch COVID and spread it when you ARE vaccinated......why get it?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html


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## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

UNvaccinated are 11 times more likely to die from Covid than vaccinated. People who have had Covid once or more and remain UNvaccinated are twice as likely to contract Covid as those who are vaccinated. UNvaccinated contract COVID 8 times more often than vaccinated. 9 out of 10 hospitalizations for Covid are UNvaccinated.

Vaccination provided 90+% protection against the alpha form of Covid. The delta variant, a mutation that developed in India’s unvaccinated masses, carries a much larger viral load. This allows it to overcome the protection offered by vaccination more easily (more breakthrough infections), rendering the vaccines only about 85% effective. Even so, 8 times more UNvaccinated people contract delta than vaccinated people. Vaccinated also have much less risk of serious illness, and reduce their viral loads much faster - which in turn makes them contagious for less time.

Why do I wear a mask and socially distance even though I am fully vaccinated? It’s because I know I can still catch the virus, even though the chances of this are relatively small. I have to go to the store occasionally and I don’t know how many of the people there within the last few hours have been shedding the virus. I do know that anyone unvaccinated is 8 times more likely to be shedding virus than anyone who is vaccinated, and that some of the people in the store (including all young children) are UNvaccinated. My aim is to protect myself in every possible way so that I do not unknowingly carry the virus to my pregnant daughter.

It is estimated that up to 1 in 3 people who contract symptomatic Covid develop long haul symptoms. Some appear to develop ME/CFS (myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome), a mysterious and seemingly permanent condition for which there is no known cure.

My aim is to reduce risk to myself and family. Vaccination does that.

Finally, if “natural immunity” worked for a mutating virus, people wouldn’t need to get a flu shot every year to acquire protection against the new strains. Covid is obviously a virus capable of mutating, so why would one think the acquisition of protection would be different?


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

peppered said:


> That's what I had, T cell test.
> If only people got over the vax hype immunity that goes slowly away and understood the other "side" of science. NATURAL immunity after many illnesses.
> 
> The ones asking why I got it 2x. I do not know. They say some get it again. Maybe different strain? First time doc told me that there is a strange virus going around and nobody knows what it is. My boss had it too. He was very ill for month and on lots of meds. It was not flu. They tasted him and the same results, some different virus.
> ...


I have had covid twice. Confirmed cases. I agree natural immunity "should" protect you and herd immunity "should" occur. But just look around the world it just isn't happening. Vaccination is the only way out of this and back to some form of normalcy


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

bevvyreay said:


> I have had covid twice. Confirmed cases. I agree natural immunity "should" protect you and herd immunity "should" occur. But just look around the world it just isn't happening. *Vaccination is the only way out of this and back to some form of normalcy*


Agreed. 
Well, letting the virus wipe out most of the unvaccinated would be an alternative way. I'm not in favour of that way, but … 
What other choice is there?


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## peppered (May 16, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Agreed.
> Well, letting the virus wipe out most of the unvaccinated would be an alternative way. I'm not in favour of that way, but …
> What other choice is there?


Hey, I am for population control!
And if anything kills me, well be it. Survival of the fittest! But I won't be hiding, muzzled and telling people what they have to do or not.
I understand some have compromised health and need to take precaution but we have covid /jab deranged syndrome on both sides happening and people are just nuts! 
Why not just respect each others believes? And if you are so paranoid, than hide! But you only making things worse for yourselves worrying and stressing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+isolation+affects+the+immune+system&rlz=1C1CHNY_enUS910US910&sxsrf=AOaemvKVu2GaFSjWDdpCdyJCKfxp4AHz9w%3A1634375231347&ei=P5ZqYfrUFPqWwbkP2bqL8AY&oq=how+isolation+affects+the+immune+system&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIGCAAQFhAeMgUIABCGAzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BwgjEOoCECc6BwguEOoCECc6BQgAEJECOggIABCABBCxAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBEKMCOgsILhCABBDHARCvAToICC4QsQMQgwE6CAgAELEDEJECOgcIABCxAxBDOg0ILhCxAxDHARDRAxBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOg4ILhCABBCxAxDHARDRAzoOCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQrwE6CQgAEEMQRhD_AToICAAQgAQQyQM6BwgAEIAEEAo6BAgAEAo6CAgAEBYQChAeOgYIABANEB5KBAhBGABQm5wqWMKRK2CLpCtoAnACeAOAAdQCiAHYK5IBCDUuMjQuMS42mAEAoAEBsAEKyAEKwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz

I know how I was affected having covid and it didn't kill me, but I do not know the long term consequences of the jab and surely don't want to find out. Specially having T cell immunity. I take my small memory loss over blood cloth risk anyday!

I see what it did to my neighbor. She is still in hospital and looks like she might not make it.
It's been months! I also mentioned before the death of someone after covid shot that others dismissed it here!

Peace out!


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## lkg67 (Jan 25, 2016)

????????????????????????????????


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

How can you spread harmful misinfomation and then say peace out? I seldom respond to your despicable posts, I understand you have memory loss and brain damage from your bout with covid. I am sorry that you have long term damage, but sometimes your disregard for other humans really upsets me.


peppered said:


> Hey, I am for population control!
> And if anything kills me, well be it. Survival of the fittest! But I won't be hiding, muzzled and telling people what they have to do or not.
> I understand some have compromised health and need to take precaution but we have covid /jab deranged syndrome on both sides happening and people are just nuts!
> Why not just respect each others believes? And if you are so paranoid, than hide! But you only making things worse for yourselves worrying and stressing.
> ...


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Even Canada is taking away people's freedoms, the same way America is. This poor Canadian church pastor was arrested for holding an outdoor church service.

Also, New York has just decriminalized the sale and possession of syringes. So now, drug addicts can shoot up drugs in public with no fear of arrest.

So just keep voting in these politicians who take away your freedoms and stop cops from enforcing the laws, folks. Soon, both Canada and America will be just like Venezuela, where the police can show up at your door or church service to arrest you!!! And in New York, drug addicts are shooting up on the sidewalks and the police can't do a thing about it. Personally, I can't wait for the next elections. I will vote Republican so fast it will make your head spin.

https://wng.org/sift/canadian-pastor-jailed-over-pandemic-violations-1623792755

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/new-york/articles/2021-10-08/new-york-decriminalizes-syringes-eases-up-on-naloxone


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Susie2016 said:


> Even Canada is taking away people's freedoms, the same way America is. This poor Canadian church pastor was arrested for holding an outdoor church service.
> 
> Also, New York has just decriminalized the sale and possession of syringes. So now, drug addicts can shoot up drugs in public with no fear of arrest.
> 
> ...


Thanks for my afternoon laugh.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> Thanks for my afternoon laugh.


You said it exactly. Thank you. Where do they come up with this stuff? Take a tiny grain of truth and fabricate a whole conspiracy around delusions?

A pastor gets arrested for having too many people and failing to enforce masking and social distancing? Arrested for holding a super spreader event, sounds good to me. If he would have followed the guidelines and made things safe for his congregation he would have had no problems at all. Two or three sessions in smaller groups with everyone apart and masked would have been legal.

New York is trying to stop deaths from overdose, trying to identify and get people into recovery programs, maybe this will work, maybe not. This article didn't say anything about using the needles in public, it was talking about purchase and possession of them.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Evie RM said:


> I take the capsule form. No problem there. Plus my doctor told me to make sure I take 1500 mg of Calcium and Vitamin D. I have told him what I am taking. My bones are benefitting.


You don't seem to understand what water soluble vitamins means. There are two kinds of pills, fat soluble and water soluble. Once your capsule shell melts, you have water soluble beads that head straight for your kidneys and bladder.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MoCoop said:


> You said it exactly. Thank you. Where do they come up with this stuff? Take a tiny grain of truth and fabricate a whole conspiracy around delusions?
> 
> A pastor gets arrested for having too many people and failing to enforce masking and social distancing? Arrested for holding a super spreader event, sounds good to me. If he would have followed the guidelines and made things safe for his congregation he would have had no problems at all. Two or three sessions in smaller groups with everyone apart and masked would have been legal.
> 
> New York is trying to stop deaths from overdose, trying to identify and get people into recovery programs, maybe this will work, maybe not. This article didn't say anything about using the needles in public, it was talking about purchase and possession of them.


Well said and thank you.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

peppered said:


> Hey, I am for population control!
> And if anything kills me, well be it. Survival of the fittest! But I won't be hiding, muzzled and telling people what they have to do or not.
> I understand some have compromised health and need to take precaution but we have covid /jab deranged syndrome on both sides happening and people are just nuts!
> Why not just respect each others believes? And if you are so paranoid, than hide! But you only making things worse for yourselves worrying and stressing.
> ...


Statistics have been repeated ad nauseum, yet you are stuck on a single vaccine death (of which we have no information about the deceased overall health). I just wonder why you think it rightful of you to go 'unmuzzled' when you work in the food and hospitality business. You ask why we can't just respect your beliefs. Simple. I cannot respect anyone who simply does not care one iota about their fellow beings. Period.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Well be it..what about the folks you take down with you as you go so you think well be it to them too.You can still carry it and pass it on


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> Even Canada is taking away people's freedoms, the same way America is. This poor Canadian church pastor was arrested for holding an outdoor church service.
> 
> Also, New York has just decriminalized the sale and possession of syringes. So now, drug addicts can shoot up drugs in public with no fear of arrest.
> 
> ...


Since when has fear of incarceration ever got in the way of an addict getting what he/she needs? The point of the decriminalization is to prevent sharing needles or dying by not getting their dose. Until we can help every addict out there, this measure will save lives. I don't have the answer, but I certainly can eliminate incarceration for possessing a needle as a deterrent.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I am beginning to think some of these persistent antivaxxers with their stories just don't have a life, here they are getting their 15 minuts of fame plus plus which I why I have crossed over in the way I react to them. They are either totally brain fried or they are so totally without a conscience and may get a kick out of being a ticking bomb,just as any other mass murderer.

I do not believe that anyone with normal brain function would or even could refuse treatment knowing they could kill someone if they refused a simple shot..

What about paying it forward and doing it for your family and friends. Giving something back for the things life has given you. Folks will have helped you get this far,,so help them for goodness sake. This is not the time to put oneself totally first. it is selfish, in my opinion it shows the world including your family and friends just what you are. Just how many do you think you will have left when this is all over. Those that die will be gone but those that live will despise you. All you will have left are the despicable people like yourself, certainly they cannot be called friends as friends care for one another, and at the first hurdle in the future they will dump on you to save themselves. What sort of a future is that. You won a small battle and lost your identity..It will be a lonely place. Think of the friends you may have had rightbhere that are probably gone now


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> Since when has fear of incarceration ever got in the way of an addict getting what he/she needs? The point of the decriminalization is to prevent sharing needles or dying by not getting their dose. Until we can help every addict out there, this measure will save lives. I don't have the answer, but I certainly can eliminate incarceration for possessing a needle as a deterrent.


KK: you might as well save your breath. You cannot argue or reason with these misinformed, closed minded people. If they would just read a little history of this disease and do a little research, then they would be informed, but they read and see only what they want to.

A little history: A new respiratory disease appeared in Wuhan, China in December 2019 and then rapidly spread to many countries around the world. In January 2020, the cause of this disease was found to be a new Coronavirus and the disease it causes was named, Covid-19. Since then many companies around the world quickly started to look for treatments and ways to prevent Covid 19. Vaccines help your body produce antibodies to help you fight off a disease - consider how we erradicated Smallpox and polio because there was no question back then that you got the vaccines and they saved lives. No whining about your "Freedoms."

Today's vaccines do not contain the whole virus or the parts of the virus that can make you ill; instead the vccines are made up of parts of the virus's genetic code, surrounded by fatty particles called lipids. They use your own cells' protein making machinery to produce some, or all, of the spike proten seen on the outside of the virus. This spike protein, made from your own body, helps your body to produce antibodies to fight against Covid-19.

There are no micro-chips in the vaccines and no live viruses.

How do I know this...well, because I volunteered at the onset of this scourge to help test the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine...which incidentally they have been working to develop for decades, not months, not rushed by any means. I just got the 3rd booster and I will happily get a 4th and/or a 5th if necessary in order to help end the death and destruction this disease has caused around the world....yes, even for these braindead anti-vaxxers.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

pattibe said:


> KK: you might as well save your breath. You cannot argue or reason with these misinformed, closed minded people. If they would just read a little history of this disease and do a little research, then they would be informed, but they read and see only what they want to.
> 
> A little history: A new respiratory disease appeared in Wuhan, China in December 2019 and then rapidly spread to many countries around the world. In January 2020, the cause of this disease was found to be a new Coronavirus and the disease it causes was named, Covid-19. Since then many companies around the world quickly started to look for treatments and ways to prevent Covid 19. Vaccines help your body produce antibodies to help you fight off a disease - consider how we erradicated Smallpox and polio because there was no question back then that you got the vaccines and they saved lives. No whining about your "Freedoms."
> 
> ...


I read somewhere, I believe on KP, "Never argue with someone who believes their own lies"


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

farmlady said:


> I read somewhere, I believe on KP, "Never argue with someone who believes their own lies"


Absolutely


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I have a great immune system, too. I am 70 years old and on zero, zip, nada prescription medications. I do have COPD, chronic bronchitis aggravated by a constant post nasal drip, but I mangage it without meds - unless I get an infection and have to visit the doctor, then I follow instructions and take meds exactly until it clears. (Wearing a mask is great - no bacteria or viruses from other people means no infections in my upper respritory system, YAY!)
> 
> I am fully vaccinated, I studied all available information, my other half researched information from German speaking countries, I consulted the medical professionals that I know, did all the fact checking I could, watched the results as the first batch of people, medical workers, high risk people, etc. received their vaccinations - and then signed up to be vaccinated as soon as I was eligible.
> 
> ...


Very well written and thought out.
I have come up with another idea for ALL the Covidiots.
Lets put them all on a LARGE ship and send the off to Neverland !!! what is wrong with HOW they process sciencetific info ??

Will this Pandemic end in our life time ? I want to set myself FREE to enjoy what once was a normal day. I too have been vax, wear a mask, social distance, have used a ocean of hand sanitizer. And still PRAY every night that I didnt catch Covid from some idiot I may have passed by.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> Even Canada is taking away people's freedoms, the same way America is. This poor Canadian church pastor was arrested for holding an outdoor church service.
> 
> Also, New York has just decriminalized the sale and possession of syringes. So now, drug addicts can shoot up drugs in public with no fear of arrest.
> 
> ...


You might note that the date on the article about the pastor is June 28. The size of gatherings outdoors were regulated at that time and the pastor defied those guidelines. So---he got arrested. Good! By the way Alberta has the worst record in Canada for COVID vaccination and regulation. 
Why in the world should the possession of syringes be illegal? How would you expect a diabetic to inject their insulin? Not everyone is on an insulin pump.

If those are your two best reasons for giving up your Democracy in favour of a dictatorship lead by Trump then fill your boots. You will most definitely live to regret your choice.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Granny41 said:


> … Why in the world should the possession of syringes be illegal? How would you expect a diabetic to inject their insulin? Not everyone is on an insulin pump. …


Umm … My mother did use syringes to administer her insulin. 
By the time I was prescribed insulin, I was given insulin 'pens'. 
Removable needles. 
Removable glass cartridges of insulin. 
No vials of insulin and no syringes.

No insulin pumps for me … not yet anyway.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

I was surprised to see the pharmacist hand over a single-use syringe to a probable drug user. No prescription. No name or other information taken. No payment either. 
When asked, the pharmacist said it was better to supply sterile syringes than have drug users risking serious diseases from reusing and swapping syringes with others. I don’t know if this is by law or just that pharmacist’s way of seeing things.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I was surprised to see the pharmacist hand over a single-use syringe to a probable drug user. No prescription. No name or other information taken. No payment either.
> When asked, the pharmacist said it was better to supply sterile syringes than have drug users risking serious diseases from reusing and swapping syringes with others. I don't know if this is by law or just that pharmacist's way of seeing things.


Yes that is the same here in USA, I worked for CVS ( pharmacy). And new syringes are handed out- no questions asked.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> Yes that is the same here in USA, I worked for CVS ( pharmacy). And new syringes are handed out- no questions asked.


Good to know. Maybe that practice has also reduced the incidence of used syringes being found all over the streets. Leastwise, I haven't seen any in years.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Good to know. Maybe that practice has also reduced the incidence of used syringes being found all over the streets. Leastwise, I haven't seen any in years.


Sharing syringes and needles strongly contributed to the spread of Hep C in the drug using population. Before they screened blood donations a popular way of getting money was selling your blood, you'd get paid a small amount for a blood donation. The hospitals kept up their blood supply and students and down-on-their-luck people could earn a few dollars.

That is how my late husband contracted the Hep C that gave him a horrible, painful, long drawn out death. He was in a car accident in Arizona and they gave him a blood transfusion. It was contaminated with HepC. It was pretty much dormant for many years but when it became active it killed him. Watching someone I love die from liver failure over 8 long months is something I never want to do again. I wouldn't wish that kind of death on my worst enemy.

Making it illegal to possess syringes without a prescription did not stop drug use, it just spread disease.

As a horse owner I often had syringes and needles in my possession, I sure wouldn't want to stick those big bore needles anywhere in my body, but I often had to give antibiotics or other meds to my horses, under a veterinarians direction of course. It would be really expensive to have to have the vet come out every day to give your horse a shot when a horse is on a two-week course of antibiotics so most horse owners learned to do it themselves. Before vaccines were available for strangles, every spring meant sick horses and many times they needed antibiotics to save them. Working at stables, as I did, I had a working relationship with all of the vets. Gosh, we didn't have vaccinations for so many horse diseases then. We didn't have Ivermectin to kill their worms, either. Vaccinations and scientific research are saving more than human lives.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> You don't seem to understand what water soluble vitamins means. There are two kinds of pills, fat soluble and water soluble. Once your capsule shell melts, you have water soluble beads that head straight for your kidneys and bladder.


I have been taking them for years with no problems. They are helping my body, so I will continue to take them.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> Vaccinations and scientific research are saving more than human lives.


Yet … There's money to be made by producers of livestock that are certified as never having had antibiotics, eaten fertilized fodder, etc.

I laugh at labels on produce that say "Organic". If it once grew above or below the ground, isn't it already 'organic'?

I gave up my youthful dream of one day having horses about fifty years ago. On our income and with two children, it just wasn't ever going to happen. Had I stayed single, it might have, but there's no changing the past.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Yet … There's money to be made by producers of livestock that are certified as never having had antibiotics, eaten fertilized fodder, etc.
> 
> I laugh at labels on produce that say "Organic". If it once grew above or below the ground, isn't it already 'organic'?
> 
> I gave up my youthful dream of one day having horses about fifty years ago. On our income and with two children, it just wasn't ever going to happen. Had I stayed single, it might have, but there's no changing the past.


On a label Organic means it was grown by organic standards without the use of chemicals. The farms have to be inspected and certified before their product can be labeled Organic.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

farmlady said:


> On a label Organic means it was grown by organic standards without the use of chemicals. The farms have to be inspected and certified before their product can be labeled Organic.


I know that, but if it's grown at all, it is by definition organic. Same goes for the labels of 'biologically grown', 'cholesterol free' (on items that haven't ever had cholesterol), etc. Cheap laughs for me.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I know that, but if it's grown at all, it is by definition organic. Same goes for the labels of 'biologically grown', 'cholesterol free' (on items that haven't ever had cholesterol), etc. Cheap laughs for me.


I saw a bag of gluten free oranges at the grocery store, almost laughed my mask off.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I saw a bag of *gluten free oranges* at the grocery store, almost laughed my mask off.


Yes, that's the latest in laughable marketing ploys.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Yes, that's the latest in laughable marketing ploys.


It makes me wonder if some of the gluten free addicts even know what gluten free is. 
If you have celiac disease, about 2% of the population, you absolutely need to have a gluten free diet. If you have certain forms of non-celiac gluten sensitivity, then a gluten free diet may help you feel better. But most people have no problems at all with gluten. 
These are foods which naturally contain gluten: 
Wheat in all forms including durum flour, farina, graham flour, semolina and spelt.
Barley and products with malt.
Rye.
Triticale.
From the article I got this information from: "But for everyone else, gluten-free may just be more costly and could negatively affect digestive health because you're missing out on fiber. Consumer Reports also found that some gluten-free foods have more fat, sugar and/or salt than their regular counterparts, and are short on nutrients like iron and folic acid -- found in foods with enriched-wheat flour." https://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20180129/who-really-needs-to-go-gluten-free
An interesting thing I read in this article, that I will have to research much further, is that small amounts of arsenic are being found in rice. I will have to learn a lot more before I worry about it.
When I bake bread with whole wheat flour I usually add vital wheat gluten, it gives me no problems at all and does not bother my IBS. Wheat is one of the things that humans have been eating the longest.
The most annoying part of this is that my local store no longer carries my favorite 7-grain rolled hot cereal, instead the shelves are filled with oats in various forms. I have to go to the Mennonite store to get the 7 grain and boy is it expensive there.
Today I was harvesting what buckwheat the storms and freezing left behind, maybe I'll have enough for some cereal.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....

The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/16/albany-police-nypd-order-cops-to-do-nothing-as-junkies-shoot-up/

And California's "Catch and Release" policy for criminals has made shoplifting rampant----many times they are drug addicts. Police aren't even bothering to arrest them anymore because many of these drug and theft crimes are now misdemeanors instead of felonies and the criminals are released within hours, to go do more crime.

https://www.npr.org/2016/01/22/463210910/california-cops-frustrated-with-catch-and-release-crime-fighting

Walgreens has closed 10 stores in San Francisco due to rampant shoplifting.

https://ktla.com/news/california/walgreens-says-its-closing-5-more-san-francisco-stores-over-widespread-brazen-shoplifting/

And recreational marijuana is legal in many states!!! They even give out of state guides for it because people drive there to get it!!! I was shocked when I saw that!!! Go ahead, defend it. Would you want your surgeon/pilot/lawyer under the influence of pot? One use of it can stay in your system for between 3 to 30 days, depending on how often it is used.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/where-is-pot-legal

https://coloradospringscriminaldefense.net/blog/an-out-of-state-visitors-guide-to-marijuana-laws-in-colorado

Yep, keep voting in these liberal politicians and society will diminish more and more and more. So.....am I the one who is blind???? No, I won't be voting for any liberals because I CAN SEE what is happening in liberal states.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


 :sm06: :sm16: :sm25:


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## peppered (May 16, 2014)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm23:


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I was surprised to see the pharmacist hand over a single-use syringe to a probable drug user. No prescription. No name or other information taken. No payment either.
> When asked, the pharmacist said it was better to supply sterile syringes than have drug users risking serious diseases from reusing and swapping syringes with others. I don't know if this is by law or just that pharmacist's way of seeing things.


My daughter is a type one diabetic and way back when she was first diagnosed she used single-use syringes and I often bought them and insulin for her. In fact I regularly sent both to her via courier when she briefly lived in the US. The main reason that she returned to Canada was the lack of universal healthcare in the US.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


I won't be either. The liberals are ruining the state where I live and have been for several years. This used to be a good place to live. Not anymore.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Granny41 said:


> My daughter is a type one diabetic and way back when she was first diagnosed she used single-use syringes and I often bought them and insulin for her. In fact I regularly sent both to her via courier when she briefly lived in the US. The main reason that she returned to Canada was *the lack of universal healthcare in the US.*


That's the main reason I haven't seriously considered moving back stateside.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say you are blind, but I would say you are hysterical.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

knovice knitter said:


> I wouldn't say you are blind, but I would say you are hysterical.


You nailed it KK


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> I wouldn't say you are blind, but I would say *you are hysterical.*


In every meaning of the word.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> I wouldn't say you are blind, but I would say you are hysterical.


True! But that's a fact and this. One does not understand those.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

By the way, the Nebraska Attorney General has issued an opinion that doctors there can prescribe ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID without violating any of the state's laws or regulations as long as they get informed consent of the patient.

https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/state-ag-doctors-can-prescribe-hcq-ivermectin-covid/

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-donald-trump-business-health-nebraska-27fa41c733b4d7cab18ce13ccfcfb5c6


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Not blind, deaf maybe , braindead perhpas, something is certainly off kilter.


Evie RM said:


> I won't be either. The liberals are ruining the state where I live and have been for several years. This used to be a good place to live. Not anymore.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Then they are braindead too. Gee I am so glad I live in Canada


Susie2016 said:


> By the way, the Nebraska Attorney General has issued an opinion that doctors there can prescribe ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID without violating any of the state's laws or regulations as long as they get informed consent of the patient.
> 
> https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/state-ag-doctors-can-prescribe-hcq-ivermectin-covid/
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-donald-trump-business-health-nebraska-27fa41c733b4d7cab18ce13ccfcfb5c6


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> Since when has fear of incarceration ever got in the way of an addict getting what he/she needs? The point of the decriminalization is to prevent sharing needles or dying by not getting their dose. Until we can help every addict out there, this measure will save lives. I don't have the answer, but I certainly can eliminate incarceration for possessing a needle as a deterrent.


The "War on Drugs" tried everything else and none of it worked. Note the definition of insanity. Time for a new approach.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Susie2016 said:


> By the way, the Nebraska Attorney General has issued an opinion that doctors there can prescribe ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID without violating any of the state's laws or regulations as long as they get informed consent of the patient.
> 
> https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/state-ag-doctors-can-prescribe-hcq-ivermectin-covid/
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-donald-trump-business-health-nebraska-27fa41c733b4d7cab18ce13ccfcfb5c6


All that proves is that there are numb nuts in the state of Nebraska.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

So another politician is practicing medicine, while the article about the small county in Wyoming shows them having a horrid time, people are using Ivermectin as a protection from covid19 and it isn't working, the county has few emergency services, no hospital of their own, they are set up for only a few emergency patients, are being overwhelmed with covid victims and are having troubles finding hospitals to send them to - all the hospitals that usually receive their urgent patients are dealing with too many covid patients themselves.

The doctors there in Wyoming say that a lot of their covid19 deaths are amongst patients who have been dosing regularly with Ivermectin. Ivermectin kills worms not viruses.

Ivermecting and Hydroxychloroquine have been debunked over and over again. The studies that showed them effective were found to be inaccurate and full of flaws. These drugs will kill the virus in a petri dish but people are not petri dishes. No one else has able to reproduce the results that the flawed reports cite as fact.

I would love it if these drugs worked, but they don't. Peru was handing out Ivermectin to its citizens in a vain effort to stop the disease. It didn't work, the death toll was horrific. The only thing that slowed down the disease was the vaccine. You can see the death toll dropping as the number of vaccinated people rises.

I don't have a problem with doctors prescribing these drugs, it's better than people eating livestock dewormer and dog heartworm medication, but there is no evidence but heresay and hysteria that demonstrates that they work against covid. It gives their patients a false sense of security and lupus sufferers, who need the hydroxychloroquine to live anything resembling a normal life, cannot get their prescriptions filled because of the run on the drug.

If a doctor prescribes these drugs and the patient who had signed informed consent forms dies of covid who is responsible? If because of the false security given by these drugs that have a placebo effect on covid, people indulge themselves in risky behavior and expose themselves to the virus and spread it to others, who then die, who is responsible? Do you sue the doctor? the politician? the drug manufacturers? Will suing anyone bring the dead people back? or stop the spread of covid19?

I was so excited when these drugs were first tested and showed promise. But scientific study and results show that they do not work as promised. Where the vaccine percentage is climbing, the covid death rate is dropping, where vaccination percentage is low, the death rate is rising. I live in North Idaho, the majority of people here do not believe in covid19 (that's like not believing in trees when you live in the middle of the forest), do not believe in the vaccine, do not believe in masks, and do not even believe that the unprecidented number of intubated people in ICU, many of whom leave that unit in a body bag, had covid, arguing that the death certificate is wrong, covid19 wasn't the cause.

Before covid, our little hospital averaged 20 deaths a year. As of Friday, 66 had already died there this year.

I would much rather listen to a doctor than a politician with an opinion, carefully worded to protect himself from the deaths that will result from people who reject science and medicine and rely on his words to save him. In ten years he will be a textbook example of a politician giving people what they want even though he knows darn well it is the wrong thing to do.

Update:
I just checked, over the weekend 6 more Bonner County residents died of covid19. I don't know how many died in our local hospital and how many were in Couer d'Alene or Spokane hospitals, but 6 people who should be alive today are dead. These are people I met on the street, saw at concerts and in the grocery store. I don't know yet who passed this weekend, some of them may be people I went to church with or counted as friends. These people should not be dead. This is wrong. There is a safe and effective vaccine available, for free. Why are people so afraid to take a vaccine when the alternative is a horrid lonely death attached to a machine that can push air into your lungs but not make them accept it?
I am so angry right now



Susie2016 said:


> By the way, the Nebraska Attorney General has issued an opinion that doctors there can prescribe ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID without violating any of the state's laws or regulations as long as they get informed consent of the patient.
> 
> https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/state-ag-doctors-can-prescribe-hcq-ivermectin-covid/
> 
> https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-donald-trump-business-health-nebraska-27fa41c733b4d7cab18ce13ccfcfb5c6


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

spins2knit said:


> All that proves is that there are numb nuts in the state of Nebraska.


It also proves where some people get their "news." World News Daily is extremely biased.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It also proves where some people get their "news." World News Daily is extremely biased.


Well, of course it is. Don't we think she knows that!?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

spins2knit said:


> Well, of course it is. Don't we think she knows that!?


Of course. That is why she reads it; it reflects her opinions.

After reading page after page of this topic, it is clear who is complaining about vaccinations. It's the same crowd who believes every wild conspiracy theory, the same crowd who has no grasp of logic, the same crowd who loves Trump, and the same crowd who has no problem with hypocrisy. They are brain dead.

I don't believe for a second that they have any firmly-held beliefs or sound reasoning behind their opinions. They are contrarians to the core and their "research" consists of seeking out any published source to support whatever side of any issue they are worked up about at the moment. They have no empathy for other human beings and certainly no understanding of the "freedom" they constantly shriek about.

I'm sick of them all.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

DGreen said:


> Of course. That is why she reads it; it reflects her opinions.
> 
> After reading page after page of this topic, it is clear who is complaining about vaccinations. It's the same crowd who believes every wild conspiracy theory, the same crowd who has no grasp of logic, the same crowd who loves Trump, and the same crowd who has no problem with hypocrisy. They are brain dead.
> 
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Of course. That is why she reads it; it reflects her opinions.
> 
> After reading page after page of this topic, it is clear who is complaining about vaccinations. It's the same crowd who believes every wild conspiracy theory, the same crowd who has no grasp of logic, the same crowd who loves Trump, and the same crowd who has no problem with hypocrisy. They are brain dead.
> 
> ...


They all go under the assumption that if it is published, it is true. They don't get that their idol, Reagan, did that in years ago.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> They all go under the assumption that if it is published, it is true. They don't get that their idol, Reagan, did that in years ago.


Unless it is published by someone they don't like, like scientists, doctors and sitting presidents.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

MoCoop, I really feel your pain and I cannot make it better for you but if it helps,your answers are always filled with common sense and wisdom that many folks here lack so I always hope that it may get through to a few who have dug in against the vax etc. I believe they are being lead, and one only has to look at history to see how things can change, so they may start following someone else soon.If so I hope it is someone like you.

I too am angry and have said so.They have brought out a side of me I don't like, you seem to keep focused more than I do . so I tend to hang on to your coat tails a bit hoping some of your sense and focus stick to me.

I can picture your little hosptial being swamped, it is so wrong. I am so so sorry that you have to live in such a contaminated place.

XX Love from Jeannine


MoCoop said:


> So another politician is practicing medicine, while the article about the small county in Wyoming shows them having a horrid time, people are using Ivermectin as a protection from covid19 and it isn't working, the county has few emergency services, no hospital of their own, they are set up for only a few emergency patients, are being overwhelmed with covid victims and are having troubles finding hospitals to send them to - all the hospitals that usually receive their urgent patients are dealing with too many covid patients themselves.
> 
> The doctors there in Wyoming say that a lot of their covid19 deaths are amongst patients who have been dosing regularly with Ivermectin. Ivermectin kills worms not viruses.
> 
> ...


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Of course. That is why she reads it; it reflects her opinions.
> 
> After reading page after page of this topic, it is clear who is complaining about vaccinations. It's the same crowd who believes every wild conspiracy theory, the same crowd who has no grasp of logic, the same crowd who loves Trump, and the same crowd who has no problem with hypocrisy. They are brain dead.
> 
> ...


I too am heartily sick of the misuse of the "freedom" word. Anyone who has lived through war or foreign occupancy understands and values "freedom" much more comprehensively than the current mob of deniers.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

berigora said:


> I too am heartily sick of the misuse of the "freedom" word. *Anyone who has lived through war *or foreign occupancy understands and values "freedom" much more comprehensively than the current mob of deniers.


Hmm … 
I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that many of the naysayers were former military troops. Or maybe they weren't ever deployed to an actual frontline?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Hmm …
> I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that many of the naysayers were former military troops. Or maybe they weren't ever deployed to an actual frontline?


The military is full of Trump supporters and ultra-conservatives. I believe there is something about a willingness to follow that attracts many to join up.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Thank you Jeannine, I get so frustrated at these needless deaths. It is hard for me to always be objective but I try to do so because maybe one person will change their mind. It is like whistling into the wind though, no one seems to hear but those who already know the truth of what I am saying without my having to type a word.
It does help though that someone notices, I can't claim any wisdom, I only see what I see and try to stick with the truth and common sense. I try not to accuse and call names no matter how angry I get because then no one will listen, no one will think about what I say except how to rebutt it.
I know these people who are dying here now, they are not bad people - this is an area where until the very recent influx of out of staters you didn't have to lock your door. If you had a flat tire someone stopped and changed it for you, if you were a broke widow you would go out one morning to find a cord of firewood neatly stacked outside your door. People took care of each other and didn't brag about it or ask for thanks, they just helped where it was needed without ever considering if someone deserved it or not.
Now these same people would hurt me rather than help me, would laugh if I died, and I know something is deeply wrong to change them so quickly, at heart they are good people, this ugly thing that has been woken in them is killing them and others too..
You help by reminding me how quickly things can change, I remember when everyone loved the Beatles one day and then started burning their albums the next, the same with the BeeGees, one day disco is everything the next day the BeeGees are hasbeens. I know that seems an irrelevant comparison but it seems to be the same sort of mass hysteria, only deady.
Thank you for your support, even in your anger your posts are always thought out and balanced and I see your pain at being brought to anger by this horror that is happening all over the world.



For the Love of Shetland said:


> MoCoop, I really feel your pain and I cannot make it better for you but if it helps,your answers are always filled with common sense and wisdom that many folks here lack so I always hope that it may get through to a few who have dug in against the vax etc. I believe they are being lead, and one only has to look at history to see how things can change, so they may start following someone else soon.If so I hope it is someone like you.
> 
> I too am angry and have said so.They have brought out a side of me I don't like, you seem to keep focused more than I do . so I tend to hang on to your coat tails a bit hoping some of your sense and focus stick to me.
> 
> ...


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I think you and I could probably be soulmates.I also remember a world of neighbourly love that seems to be gradually fading away.My Mum was Grandma to the neighbouthood, my husband was the neighbour whose kids would bring their math homework to when they needed help. Just last night I was chatting to a friend who is a school teacher and she has also noticed it. She stunned me when she said kids often say " I don't want to do that" regarding some school subject or another and at parent teacher meetings on many occasions she has had folks say that their son or daughter who doesn't like some subject or another shouldn't have to do it because they are out of their comfort zone. We are talking English or Math here by the way not PE or sports.It is as though they feel their kids have to be 100% comfortable every minute of every day.Of course they will grow up with no coping skills if they are not encouraged to try to tackle something that needs a bit of effort but their parents don't seem to care about that.

I have had to give myself a bit of a talking to this last few days as I am crossing my own personal borders with all this non vax stuff. I think I have finally realised there is nothing I can say that will change their minds sadly so I am letting the anger go. It feels like somone is in danger of drowning and are hangimg onto a twig.Someone throws a rope but they will not get it because they would have to leave go of the twig.Just plain foolish, but maybe it comes from fear so I am going to try to let it go now. However I don't promise I won't make the occasional comment!!

I am now praying for the day when the world begins to love each other again instead of fearing one another.

Hang in there and stay as safe as you can, it has to come to a halt.There are many of us who truly do care and when the time comes we can all start rebuilding together, just like after any other word war I guess...

Blessings XX Jeannine


MoCoop said:


> Thank you Jeannine, I get so frustrated at these needless deaths. It is hard for me to always be objective but I try to do so because maybe one person will change their mind. It is like whistling into the wind though, no one seems to hear but those who already know the truth of what I am saying without my having to type a word.
> It does help though that someone notices, I can't claim any wisdom, I only see what I see and try to stick with the truth and common sense. I try not to accuse and call names no matter how angry I get because then no one will listen, no one will think about what I say except how to rebutt it.
> I know these people who are dying here now, they are not bad people - this is an area where until the very recent influx of out of staters you didn't have to lock your door. If you had a flat tire someone stopped and changed it for you, if you were a broke widow you would go out one morning to find a cord of firewood neatly stacked outside your door. People took care of each other and didn't brag about it or ask for thanks, they just helped where it was needed without ever considering if someone deserved it or not.
> Now these same people would hurt me rather than help me, would laugh if I died, and I know something is deeply wrong to change them so quickly, at heart they are good people, this ugly thing that has been woken in them is killing them and others too..
> ...


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I agree with you as one of the reasons for joining up.


DGreen said:


> The military is full of Trump supporters and ultra-conservatives. I believe there is something about a willingness to follow that attracts many to join up.


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

LOL!!! Liberals won't believe anything about loss of freedom until our country is like Venezuela, North Korea, or China. The United States is falling just like the Roman Empire did. Ah well, it was nice while it lasted.

And liberals in the government are going to raid and repeal Medicare. They are keeping it very quiet. I'll let you find that information on your own.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

And gee, the NIH is listing ivermectin too......

https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/4953964/


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> And gee, the NIH is listing ivermectin too......
> 
> https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/4953964/


You really should be more selective and discerning in your news sources. WND.com has zero credibility.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Susie2016 said:


> And gee, the NIH is listing ivermectin too......
> 
> https://www.wnd.com/2021/10/4953964/


If I didn't see people acting like this so often I would believe this post was a bot.

I am absolutely befuddled that people can actually think like this when the truth is so readily available.

They speak of the end of a nation with glee, like that's what they want. They would rather end up in a prison camp or as a mine slave to some Trumpish empire than be wrong. They would rather see millions die in poverty and disease than lift a finger to help them. They think that if corporate moguls take over the world that they will be on the winning side, not realizing that once their usefullness is over they will be discarded by the very politicians who manipulate them.

Another person died of Covid19 in Bonner County yesterday. And still those people refuse vaccines. We are now averaging 2 covid deaths a day in this little town in this sparsely populated county. We are now listed as one of the most unsafe states in the USA to visit. Actually, we're tied for #50.

It seems like they honestly believe that they are in some priviledged class that should have everything the way they want it, no compromise, they can't adapt to a changing world and would rather destroy the whole world than accept that they aren't the most important part of it. They listen to demagogues who feed on their fears and fill them with lies, they only watch news that agrees with their twisted version of reality. The reject truth in favor of lies, believe what they want to believe even as it kills them by the thousands.

As I said, befuddling.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

The NIH lists Ivermectin as an approved treatment for scabies, river blindness and other parasite driven diseases: https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/
They are researching Ivermectin as a treatment for covid, of course, and here is a quote with their findings thus far: 
"Recommendation
There is insufficient evidence for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19."
Research is being done on anything that might help but so far Ivermectin isn't proving itself against covid. WND.com researchers took a small bit of info and twisted it into something else.


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MoCoop said:


> If I didn't see people acting like this so often I would believe this post was a bot.
> 
> I am absolutely befuddled that people can actually think like this when the truth is so readily available.
> 
> ...


So true. How can they be so blind to how they are being used.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Amazing that ,,insufficient evidence,, equates to approval or recommendation. 
Particularly when the same people are concerned about the Ingredients in the vaccine.

This is willful ignorance. And they are bots!


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Well, I almost dropped out as I was getting so angry but I have slept since.

I actually don't know what a bot is but presumably it means something. Figuring it out in the spirit of the topic realting to non vaxers or other seemingly odd thinking folks I am presuming it should mean.........

B Brainless
O Obtuse
T Turkey..or Twerp would fit better if on the other side of the pond.

I am sure I am wrong with the correct definition but it seems to fit


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Maybe if the US did come crashing down, they would have a "told you so" party.. then after that the realisation just might sink in.

My faith in human nature is that this won't happen as there are too may sensible fokks in the US, I have no statistics but feel they out weigh the idiots big time.

Sad to say but Covid may just eradicate some of them. I sincerely hope that they wise up before that happens but if we are for personal choice then we have to look at both sides. I have always said I would face jail rather than give up the things I strongly believe in therefore I feel Idon't have the right to prevent someone from virus suicide whe hanging on to their beliefs too.


MoCoop said:


> If I didn't see people acting like this so often I would believe this post was a bot.
> 
> I am absolutely befuddled that people can actually think like this when the truth is so readily available.
> 
> ...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Maybe if the US did come crashing down, they would have a "told you so" party.. then after that the realisation just might sink in.
> 
> My faith in human nature is that this won't happen as there are too may sensible fokks in the US, I have no statistics but feel they out weigh the idiots big time.
> 
> Sad to say but Covid may just eradicate some of them. I sincerely hope that they wise up before that happens but if we are for personal choice then we have to look at both sides. I have always said I would face jail rather than give up the things I strongly believe in therefore I feel Idon't have the right to prevent someone from virus suicide whe hanging on to their beliefs too.


I don't believe anyone can defend "personal choice" when that choice could kill others. It's pretty much indefensible.

As for sensible folks? The Republicans are busy as bees in their plan to disenfranchise them and hold onto power in spite of their minority status. They are evil and must be stopped.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I totally agree with what you say actually, it was absolutely not meant as a defense simply a statement of fact, thank you for calling me on it..It is pretty disgusting that they would take down their own families by using their rights.This frankly is the bit I fail to understand even a wee bit.

The poltical part I cannot address as I am non political and truly do not understand the US system so I don't know the official difference between Republicans or Democrats , but I do believe that good eventually wins over evil and I am seeing some pretty evil things happening.

I wonder if I was American which one would I be. Maybe there is quiz or something somewhere.


DGreen said:


> I don't believe anyone can defend "personal choice" when that choice could kill others. It's pretty much indefensible.
> 
> As for sensible folks? The Republicans are busy as bees in their plan to disenfranchise them and hold onto power in spite of their minority status. They are evil and must be stopped.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Well, I almost dropped out as I was getting so angry but I have slept since.
> 
> I actually don't know what a bot is but presumably it means something. Figuring it out in the spirit of the topic realting to non vaxers or other seemingly odd thinking folks I am presuming it should mean.........
> 
> ...


Good thinking, but I think it's a shortening of robot.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> I totally agree with what you say actually, it was absolutely not meant as a defense simply a statement of fact, thank you for calling me on it..It is pretty disgusting that they would take down their own families by using their rights.This frankly is the bit I fail to understand even a wee bit.
> 
> The poltical part I cannot address as I am non political and truly do not understand the US system so I don't know the official difference between Republicans or Democrats , but I do believe that good eventually wins over evil and I am seeing some pretty evil things happening.
> 
> I wonder if I was American which one would I be. Maybe there is quiz or something somewhere.


Political parties are pretty fluid, actually. Historically, we have identified with one party or the other along general ideological lines and have ignored the many nuances of political belief. Remember, the "Party of Lincoln" was republican, but somewhere along the line they switched to being conservative instead of holding to the liberal beliefs that freed the slaves. No wonder it's hard to keep track.

Same as in your country, political parties can be identified as conservative or liberal. Democrats are liberal; republicans are (or at least, used to be) conservative.

Democrats gave the US things like Social Security, Medicare and the Affordable Care Act. We believe in promoting the common good and egalitarian values.

The republicans? A bunch of greedy, mindless, selfish, ignorant drones. They were not always that way, but that is what they have become under Trump. They want little or no government and do not care about the common good as long as they "get theirs." Known for claiming non-existent "rights" and for acting like two-year-olds.

No one has the "right" to harm others. This is not just my opinion, but has long been upheld by our Supreme Court. When one person's "rights" bump up against another person's "rights," it has long been held that the person who would suffer the most harm will prevail. Seems to me that is the underlying concept behind many of our regulations. A restaurant owner has the "right" to run his business as he chooses, but the danger he might represent to the community if he doesn't follow cleanliness standards is real. The public's right to safe food outweighs the restaurant owner's "right" to profit at the expense of cleanliness. I'm sure there are thousands of other examples we hardly think about on a day-to-day basis. Remember, too, that none of our constitutional rights are absolute, and never have been. It is also not up to the individual to decide what his "rights" are in relation to the law or society in general. But, that is what the anti-maskers are trying to assert. Establishing rights is subject to law and judicial review according to the constitution.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I not only laughed out loud, I roared. 
Your definition is much more descriptive and satisfying than the "real" one. A bot, a word derived from robot, defines an autonomous program on the internet that can interact with people, in a limited way. You type in something bad about Trump in YouTube comments and the bot answers something like, "Well, what about Hunter?". 
You type in "vaccines are safe and effective" and the bot replies with a horror story about vaccine reactions or a conspiracy theory about government bad guys making you magnetic.
There are reportedly a lot of Russian bots on the internet spewing out conspiracy theories, agreeing with radicals, telling horror stories about vaccine victims and otherwise messing with peoples heads. Bots are programmed to recognize key words and respond with one of a pre-defined (by the programmers) set of answers.
So i would say they are bots, robots, programed by BOTs, your definition.
Thank you, I needed a good belly laugh.



For the Love of Shetland said:


> Well, I almost dropped out as I was getting so angry but I have slept since.
> 
> I actually don't know what a bot is but presumably it means something. Figuring it out in the spirit of the topic realting to non vaxers or other seemingly odd thinking folks I am presuming it should mean.........
> 
> ...


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Well, I almost dropped out as I was getting so angry but I have slept since.
> 
> I actually don't know what a bot is but presumably it means something. Figuring it out in the spirit of the topic realting to non vaxers or other seemingly odd thinking folks I am presuming it should mean.........
> 
> ...


You are close enough. They are automated little programs that do menial tasks like spreading garbage.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Granny41 said:


> You really should be more selective and discerning in your news sources. WND.com has zero credibility.


You are so very wrong. They have been doing studies on it all over the place. You just don't like it because it interferes with your TDS and worship of liberal vaccine ideology here in KP. Here's a couple more "credible" sources.

https://trialsitenews.com/nih-lists-ivermectin-as-targeted-antiviral-of-interest-for-covid-19/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer.

I found a quiz put out by Pew something and it seems I am cast as a Diehard Liberal ?? So I think that makes ma a Democrat , anyway that is what I am graded as.

Do I have any friends left


DGreen said:


> Political parties are pretty fluid, actually. Historically, we have identified with one party or the other along general ideological lines and have ignored the many nuances of political belief. Remember, the "Party of Lincoln" was republican, but somewhere along the line they switched to being conservative instead of holding to the liberal beliefs that freed the slaves. No wonder it's hard to keep track.
> 
> Same as in your country, political parties can be identified as conservative or liberal. Democrats are liberal; republicans are (or at least, used to be) conservative.
> 
> ...


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Oh super, I am glad I made you laugh for a bit and thank you for educating me again. This internet is really something Eh!

I had to do the Eh! cos I am Canadian. LOL

It is good to have a bit of fun once in a while..

You have got me interested in your area now. I have never been but the fact that your county is the littlest if I got it right interests me cos I am a miniaturist, so my plan for this next week for something a bit differnt is to educate myself about your home..Maybe nest week I will take on another one

Try to keep laughing a bit..XX Jeannine


MoCoop said:


> I not only laughed out loud, I roared.
> Your definition is much more descriptive and satisfying than the "real" one. A bot, a word derived from robot, defines an autonomous program on the internet that can interact with people, in a limited way. You type in something bad about Trump in YouTube comments and the bot answers something like, "Well, what about Hunter?".
> You type in "vaccines are safe and effective" and the bot replies with a horror story about vaccine reactions or a conspiracy theory about government bad guys making you magnetic.
> There are reportedly a lot of Russian bots on the internet spewing out conspiracy theories, agreeing with radicals, telling horror stories about vaccine victims and otherwise messing with peoples heads. Bots are programmed to recognize key words and respond with one of a pre-defined (by the programmers) set of answers.
> ...


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I looked at your link and on the right hand side of the screen were many options all seemingly against the current actions against Covid .The site lost any credibility it might have had as it was clearly one sided from the get go.. I didn't bother with the 2nd one.


Susie2016 said:


> You are so very wrong. They have been doing studies on it all over the place. You just don't like it because it interferes with your TDS and worship of liberal vaccine ideology here in KP. Here's a couple more "credible" sources.
> 
> https://trialsitenews.com/nih-lists-ivermectin-as-targeted-antiviral-of-interest-for-covid-19/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> I didn't bother with the 2nd one.


I don't care.....


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Gee we agree on one thing..it's a start


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> You are so very wrong. They have been doing studies on it all over the place. You just don't like it because it interferes with your TDS and worship of liberal vaccine ideology here in KP. Here's a couple more "credible" sources.
> 
> https://trialsitenews.com/nih-lists-ivermectin-as-targeted-antiviral-of-interest-for-covid-19/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/


You are so incredibly easily bamboozled. Do some indepth research into your sources. Studies are just that---studies. Without proper double blind clinical trials you have nothing.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Granny41 said:


> You are so incredibly easily bamboozled. Do some indepth research into your sources. Studies are just that---studies. Without proper double blind clinical trials you have nothing.


And those trials need to include hundreds or thousands of participants. A few dozen don't mean anything.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Thank you so much for taking the time to answer.
> 
> I found a quiz put out by Pew something and it seems I am cast as a Diehard Liberal ?? So I think that makes ma a Democrat , anyway that is what I am graded as.
> 
> Do I have any friends left


Yes, you have friends here!


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Jessica-Jean said:


> And those trials need to include hundreds or thousands of participants. A few dozen don't mean anything.


Just as the COVID19 trials did.But no---Susie would rather take a veterinary medicine for parasites. There is no cure for stupid!


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I grew up on the iron range in northern Minnesota, eh? Oofdah, I still use Eh! or Eh? in my daily speech often, especially when I am talking to my siblings. The funniest thing is every once in a while my Swiss German sweetie, with his German accent, uses Eh?, too. Or even oofdah which is Norwegian.
I actually don't know a lot of facts about my county, except what I've picked up living here, we bought the house in December 2002, moved here in March 2003. 
You might enjoy reading about the long bridge and the train bridge. The Pend O'Reille river divides the county and there used to be ferries to cross the river, joining Sagle to Sandpoint and east to west from Priest River north. The railroad bridge and the long bridge were built across the part of the lake that narrows into the river. The railroad bridge has a swing truss that was to let steamboat ferries through, it went out of use when the long bridge was built and the ferries went out of business. Now the swing truss is a favored nesting spot for an osprey pair and a big tourist attraction. For your amusement:
https://www.sandpoint.com/community/long-bridge.php
https://sandpointreader.com/the-other-bridge/



For the Love of Shetland said:


> Oh super, I am glad I made you laugh for a bit and thank you for educating me again. This internet is really something Eh!
> 
> I had to do the Eh! cos I am Canadian. LOL
> 
> ...


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

If these drugs could prevent or cure covid19 I would be cheering. But tests after tests show that they don't work. I would love to be wrong about it but people who rely on these drugs are dying just like other unvaccinated people are dying.
I have no need to be right. I am sickened by people dying because they believe fallacies like the Ivermectin one. They are dying needlessly and it is wrong that they should die because they are afraid to be vaccinated for the wrong reasons.
Other countries have tried these drugs on massive scales and it did not affect the death rate at all. Thus far, improved treatments have enabled doctors to save more victims lives but the best way to save lives is to get vaccinated. It is proven over and over again. A countries infection and death rates decrease when the percentage of their population that is vaccinated increases.



Susie2016 said:


> You are so very wrong. They have been doing studies on it all over the place. You just don't like it because it interferes with your TDS and worship of liberal vaccine ideology here in KP. Here's a couple more "credible" sources.
> 
> https://trialsitenews.com/nih-lists-ivermectin-as-targeted-antiviral-of-interest-for-covid-19/
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> People call me blind? Society is deteriorating in front of our eyes THANKS TO LIBERALS.....
> 
> The junkies won, says this article in The New York Post from 15 hours ago. Cops may no longer arrest people doing drugs on the streets of New York, even if there are drugs like heroin in the syringes. And drug deaths are skyrocketing. And junkies are STILL sharing needles, which spreads diseases like Hep C and AIDS. This new law does nothing to help drug addicts. And business owners are angry that drug addicts are doing their drugs and leaving syringes right in front of their businesses. Open air drug markets are flourishing.
> 
> ...


Washington is a liberal state and everything you have stated here is also happening in Washington. This used to be a great place to live, but not anymore.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> Washington is a liberal state and everything you have stated here is also happening in Washington. This used to be a great place to live, but not anymore.


Oh, please! I am really trying hard not to respond to fools! We seem to be being pulled under by them as they drown.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

spins2knit said:


> Oh, please! I am really trying hard not to respond to fools! We seem to be being pulled under by them as they drown.


Those fools are running the state where I live.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

And the reason the liberals in KP keep saying that FOX, WND, and other such sites are "not credible" is because those sites are the few news sites who are brave enough to tell THE TRUTH about Biden and how he's destroying the country. You won't find CNN, MSN and other liberal news sites telling the truth about it!!! 

Biden's approval ratings have gone down so far that he's underwater. 

Shipping containers are piling up in California.

Crime in liberal cities is skyrocketing because they have defunded the police and don't allow cops to do their job. 

The Afghanistan debacle was shameful. 

Hundreds of thousands of illegal, unvaccinated, immigrants are pouring through our southern border. 

Other countries in the world do not trust America anymore----and they're laughing at us for having a President with dementia. 

Congress is going to raid Medicare and Social Security. 

There is a rebellion going on in America due to the vaccine mandates----and so many hospital workers, airline employees, teachers, etc are allowing themselves to be fired due to rebelling against the mandate.

Could it get any worse? YES!!! We still have 3 more years of Dementia Joe!!! Trust me folks, it's going to get A LOT worse!!!!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

That you actually trust those sites, makes me tend to disbelieve anything you might say. 
Fox actually defended one of its shows in a court of law when it had aired blatant lies as truth. Their defense? The show was opinion, not news and therefore had to legal obligation to tell the truth.
Fox admitted under oath that they lied to their viewers with full knowledge that they were lying - and you still call them credible?
WND twisted the truth in the quote you provide, as I said in a prior post, I linked to the article they were referring to, and you still believe them?

You have hitched your wagon to the manure cart and your glasses are so covered with muck that you can no longer see the truth.



Susie2016 said:


> And the reason the liberals in KP keep saying that FOX, WND, and other such sites are "not credible" is because those sites are the few news sites who are brave enough to tell THE TRUTH about Biden and how he's destroying the country. You won't find CNN, MSN and other liberal news sites telling the truth about it!!!
> 
> Biden's approval ratings have gone down so far that he's underwater.
> 
> ...


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

Has anyone noticed how a certain Susie keeps taking statements made in the past about trump such as a "President with dementia" and low approval ratings and laughed at by the world and says they are about Biden??


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

farmlady said:


> Has anyone noticed how a certain Susie keeps taking statements made in the past about trump such as a "President with dementia" and low approval ratings and laughed at by the world and says they are about Biden??


Noticed that, myself.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

farmlady said:


> Has anyone noticed how a certain Susie keeps taking statements made in the past about trump such as a "President with dementia" and low approval ratings and laughed at by the world and says they are about Biden??


Can't say as I had, because I usually skim past her long posts to see what others have to say.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Actually yes, I did notice that Re the bit about the world laughing at America, that was certainly true before but the folks I have contact with in other countries are not laughing now , they are saying thank goodness.You know sometimes the folks from afar can see a picture much more clearly than those on top of it. Just comparing Trump's personal life to Bidens is a clue as to how they will act, and it has proved right to me.


farmlady said:


> Has anyone noticed how a certain Susie keeps taking statements made in the past about trump such as a "President with dementia" and low approval ratings and laughed at by the world and says they are about Biden??


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Thank you


DGreen said:


> Yes, you have friends here!


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Oh goodie, I will enjoy that


MoCoop said:


> I grew up on the iron range in northern Minnesota, eh? Oofdah, I still use Eh! or Eh? in my daily speech often, especially when I am talking to my siblings. The funniest thing is every once in a while my Swiss German sweetie, with his German accent, uses Eh?, too. Or even oofdah which is Norwegian.
> I actually don't know a lot of facts about my county, except what I've picked up living here, we bought the house in December 2002, moved here in March 2003.
> You might enjoy reading about the long bridge and the train bridge. The Pend O'Reille river divides the county and there used to be ferries to cross the river, joining Sagle to Sandpoint and east to west from Priest River north. The railroad bridge and the long bridge were built across the part of the lake that narrows into the river. The railroad bridge has a swing truss that was to let steamboat ferries through, it went out of use when the long bridge was built and the ferries went out of business. Now the swing truss is a favored nesting spot for an osprey pair and a big tourist attraction. For your amusement:
> https://www.sandpoint.com/community/long-bridge.php
> https://sandpointreader.com/the-other-bridge/


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Oh puh-leeze!!!! You don't trust FOX or WND, so maybe you'll believe the Des Moines Register when they give example after example of Joe Biden's worsening mental confusion. Or maybe you'll believe YOUR EYES, by watching a video clip of Joe Biden forgetting why he ran for President or when he forgets what he's talking about.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/columnists/iowa-view/2021/08/15/joe-biden-mental-acuity-cause-concern-and-action/5505152001/

Joe Biden forgets why he ran for President:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3372294/joe-biden-forgets-why-ran-president-gaffe-speech/

Biden forgets what he's talking about:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14456948/joe-biden-walks-away-before-end-press-conference/


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

And the reason the liberals in KP keep saying that FOX, WND, and other such sites are "not credible" is because those sites are the few news sites who are brave enough to tell THE TRUTH about Biden and how he's destroying the country. You won't find CNN, MSN and other liberal news sites telling the truth about it!!!

 One can only wonder how you determine the "truth" and what "destroying the country" consists of. Please tell us where you get your very special knowledge.

Biden's approval ratings have gone down so far that he's underwater.  And he's still more popular than Trump was!

Shipping containers are piling up in California.  And exactly how is that Biden's fault? 

Crime in liberal cities is skyrocketing because they have defunded the police and don't allow cops to do their job.  That is blatantly false. Please document anywhere that police have been defunded and exactly how policing has been restricted. It's true that murder is up, but overall crime is not. Experts do not know why, but speculate COVID may have something to do with it due to increased stress and isolation.

The Afghanistan debacle was shameful.  Exactly - all 20 years of it. Biden did the right thing. Every civilian was given warning and the opportunity to leave. 

Hundreds of thousands of illegal, unvaccinated, immigrants are pouring through our southern border.  Same as with Trump, dearie. Is there some racially-motivated reason you fear immigrants carrying COVID more than the millions of our own citizens who are not vaccinated? NOTE: Americans have free vaccines available - immigrants do not. You defend Americans who are not vaccinated, then demonize immigrants who are not. This is obviously and undeniably racist. By the way, Biden has deported far more than Trump ever did. Trump kept immigrants on our soil so his cronies could rake in millions of tax dollars while imprisoning, raping, brutalizing and making profit off of them.

Other countries in the world do not trust America anymore----and they're laughing at us for having a President with dementia.  No, they laughed at Trump because he is and was shockingly stupid and evil. There is absolutely no truth to your BS about our President's mental sharpness. Just because you say it does not make it so. 

Congress is going to raid Medicare and Social Security.  Where is your proof? Where is the proposed legislation? Where will the republicans (who continue to successfully block ALL legislation) be when this magically happens in spite of them? Your fevered dream is nothing more than another conspiracy theory designed to get the ignorant (that includes you) worked up and sending $$ to republicans. 

There is a rebellion going on in America due to the vaccine mandates----and so many hospital workers, airline employees, teachers, etc are allowing themselves to be fired due to rebelling against the mandate. Your "rebellion" is quite literally dying. From COVID.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Trump did that frequently, I would suggest that most people of their age under the workload and the stress of the job do sometimes get overtired.I do, and I would think you do too. I don't have a trace of demantia but I do know my energy level could not stand the pace of the job they did, no one of that age has perfect response under pressure, nor perfect health.Anyone of their age and yes I do include Mr Trump in this comment has to be given a bit of slack if they lose their thread now and again. Having said that Biden is a very decent caring man who comes to the job for the right reasons, Trump on the other had is a bigoted jerk with no compassion who just likes the power and the control, that is were they are very different.


----------



## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

DGreen said:


> And the reason the liberals in KP keep saying that FOX, WND, and other such sites are "not credible" is because those sites are the few news sites who are brave enough to tell THE TRUTH about Biden and how he's destroying the country. You won't find CNN, MSN and other liberal news sites telling the truth about it!!!
> 
> One can only wonder how you determine the "truth" and what "destroying the country" consists of. Please tell us where you get your very special knowledge.
> 
> ...


Love your response!


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

DGreen said:


> One can only wonder how you determine the "truth" and what "destroying the country" consists of. Please tell us where you get your very special knowledge.
> 
> Biden's approval ratings have gone down so far that he's underwater.  And he's still more popular than Trump was!
> 
> ...


My husband, a senior computer network engineer for a huge company, is quite literally STUNNED at the ignorance of your answers. He is a moderate, believing in policies from both sides of the aisle. When he saw your answers to my points, he was astonished.

He looked at me and said: "You've got to be kidding me. Why would you even bother trying to have intelligent conversations with such people? They obviously aren't paying attention to what's going on in the country today. They truly must only be knitting in their Lazyboy chairs all day."

That cracked me up because it's not easy to faze him. But alas, it's true. I feel sorry for you guys. You really need to open your eyes as to what's going on in our county. And Trump may not have been "popular" due to his loud mouth ways, but he ran this country a heck of a lot better than Sleepy Joe who doesn't even know what he's doing from one minute to the next.

Okay......How crime is rising in liberal states and WHY:

https://www.srqmagazine.com/srq-daily/2021-06-26/17411_Bidens-Misguided-Plan-on-Crime-Surges-in-Liberal-Cities

And, one of the reasons for shipping containers backing up in California is LIBERALS CHANGING TRUCKING LAWS. Trucks deliver the goods brought over in shipping containers, right? Liberal California passed the California Truck Ban which says all truck engines must be 2005 or newer----and they also passed a law called AB 5 which prohibits Owner Operators. California Assembly Bill 5, legislation that went into effect in January 2020, requires companies that hire independent contractors to reclassify them as employees. It was designed to regulate companies like Uber and Lyft, but it also has ramifications for truckers, who often work as owner-operators. Now there's a shortage of workers.

Also, the Global chip supply is affecting the supply chain breakdown. Taiwan produces 60% of the world's chip supply. However, China is threatening Taiwan, in case you don't watch the news. China wants to take over Taiwan. And since Biden and his family are big buddies with China, China is now increasing it's military might and doing test launches of huge rockets which are capable of carrying missiles---in the direction of Taiwan. It is UNBELIEVABLE what China's military is doing right now. We should be very worried. (And let me guess---you liberals in KP don't even know what chips are. They are semiconductors. I bet you don't know what that is either....)

Also, because of the rebellion of the workers against the vaccine mandate, Delta Airlines is NOT going to require a vaccine mandate. And Southwest Airlines has backed down from their mandate requirements because of that disaster recently when they had to cancel 2000 flights due to the walkout of so many air traffic controllers and pilots.

https://www.cbs46.com/news/delta-airlines-ceo-explains-stance-on-not-mandating-vaccines-for-employees/article_00869174-262d-11ec-8781-2702730c25c4.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/19/southwest-vaccine-mandate-unpaid-leave-exemptions.html

And guess what? So far, 1.8 million immigrants have come into the southern border while Dementia Joe has been in charge. The WORST EVER YEAR:

https://www.yahoo.com/now/forecast-1-8m-illegal-migrants-110700666.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKWC-FB75TF0G9VjmLKCHByrrZADN0O4amYaFpNRahQ38wsB9pfehJMqdn91gPkKNCnUvB3D_8VhfeqZz6or9jsfzmm-YhiaCxB7Jb8nVEALD6zavTAu4WdO1fvr_oiQ_V7cpYFDWRLby-Y3l-XR5xXexHXZfWSZd4aawOM0oa0g

I could go on and on, but I won't. Why should I educate you on our country? If you don't know what's going on, it's because YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON!!!!!! But Biden is "popular", so you can comfort yourself on that. As my cardiologist says, you guys are like his ex-wife-----you vote on how you "feel", not on what is more intelligent. You didn't like loudmouth Trump, even though he kept every promise he made, and even though he ran this country a heck of a lot better. No, you didn't like him. So you voted in a man who literally can't remember what he's doing from one minute to the next, and even though he gets lost on the White House grounds----if you don't believe me, watch this video of him getting lost at the White House. (It's actually hilarious.)


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Susie2016 said:


> My husband, a senior computer network engineer for a huge company, is quite literally STUNNED at the ignorance of your answers. He is a moderate, believing in policies from both sides of the aisle. When he saw your answers to my points, he was astonished.
> 
> He looked at me and said: "You've got to be kidding me. Why would you even bother trying to have intelligent conversations with such people? They obviously aren't paying attention to what's going on in the country today. They truly must only be knitting in their Lazyboy chairs all day."
> 
> ...


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I don't vote on how I feel. I vote on facts. 
Fact: Trump was an incompetent liar, incapable of running a company, let alone a country. The lies came out of his own mouth, out of his own tweeting. I did not have to listen to any news coverage at all, I just had to listen to more than one of his statements to realize that he was a compulsive liar. Not fit for the high office he occupied for far too long. 
He promised that covid would go away the day after the election. Instead hundreds of thousands more have died. He sure didn't keep that promise.
He took credit for everything his predecessors did and openly said he refused to take responsibility for his own actions.
I voted against him both times he ran, only once in each election, which reminded me he was telling people to vote twice, pretending he was kidding. And people did, they voted twice for Trump, in the same election, the main voter fraud that took place was people casting two ballots for Trump. He divided our country, encouraged an armed insurrection, tried to overthrow the government of the US and you are still praising him?
My other half can't believe the things you are saying. He grew up in the American Sector of Berlin. One of the things they studied was how to tell when a leader was going bad so they would never, ever allow someone like Hitler to come into power ever again. He sees Trumps actions as parelleling Hitlers, the things Trump did are the warning signs of a person trying to take total power over a country. The things he was taught to watch out for as a sign of a leader going bad, those are the things he watched Trump doing. He is flabberghasted that Donald Trump is not doing jail time not only for his crimes but for his attempt to take over the country.
We listen to news all over the world, world leaders (except dictators) are relieved that Joe Biden was elected. If this country would get behind our president and work with him to acheive the goals he set for this country we would be in much better shape than we are and you would have to find something else to whine about.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> What should we expect? He is married to you!?!


Thank you, I was going to say something similar but restrained myself. She kind of made herself an easy target there.


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> My husband, a senior computer network engineer for a huge company, is quite literally STUNNED at the ignorance of your answers. He is a moderate, believing in policies from both sides of the aisle. When he saw your answers to my points, he was astonished.
> 
> He looked at me and said: "You've got to be kidding me. Why would you even bother trying to have intelligent conversations with such people? They obviously aren't paying attention to what's going on in the country today. They truly must only be knitting in their Lazyboy chairs all day."
> 
> ...


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

MoCoop said:


> Thank you, I was going to say something similar but restrained myself. She kind of made herself an easy target there.


I'm really surprised those shoes haven't turned brown. I'm sure she believes in the trickle down nonsense, too.
No, it wasn't nice, but accurate isn't always nice.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

It is so frustrating.
These people are screaming about freedom while they enable their favorite politicians to restrict voting, restrict rights, encourage bigotry and give corporations ever more power. They weaken the country with divisiveness in the highest levels of government. Their pet politicians are trying to hamstring the operation of government and leave the US in a mess while they gather power to further their own goals. They scream the constitution without ever having read it, or only those bits that they like, taken out of context.
These people scream about personal rights and make the pandemic drag on and on and on when there is a vaccine and masks to slow it down and get it under control. "We won't vaccinate, you can't make me." "You can't make me wear a mask, nah nah nah." Like two year olds who don't want you to put shoes on them. And people die and die and die and have long term covid and suffer for who knows how long.
It's hard to be nice when you hear the same lame arguments over and over and over when they've been debunked time after time after time.
By now I could write their speeches for them, but I'd have to wash my brain out with soap after letting things like that into it, so I won't.



spins2knit said:


> I'm really surprised those shoes haven't turned brown. I'm sure she believes in the trickle down nonsense, too.
> No, it wasn't nice, but accurate isn't always nice.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Democrats keep promoting their socialist agendas. Socialism does not work.

Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates the means of production, distribution and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Democratic Socialism - defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled, alongside a democratic political system of government.

Socialism exists on a spectrum. On one side you have the dictatorships, while on the other side you have the social democracies. Both sides of the spectrum use oppression and compulsory taxation to achieve their goals. But, the degree to which they do so varies a great deal.

At the base level, socialism simply means strict government control over the economy-----government run health care, government mandated wag requirements, and more restrictions and regulations on private businesses. All this government control also means a lot more taxes to pay for it.

Socialism takes---It takes entrepreneurial opportunities, takes better standards of living, takes upward mobility, takes innovation and takes economic stability.

Free enterprise and capitalism creates---Creates jobs, creates wealth, creates higher wages, and creates economic growth.

All varieties of socialism fail to achieve their goals for the same reason: all varieties attempt, to one degree or another, to substitute the decisions of government planners for those of private citizens interacting in competitive markets.

France was once a role model for what big government can do for it people. But, it has become an embarrassing example since "The Gilets Jaunes" took to the streets to demonstrate against the insane amount of taxes they pay. They are the people who have until now supported the policies that are inevitable when you have the government providing so many services and involved so deeply in so much of the economy. Per the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), annual revenue statistics report France topped the charts with a tax take equal to 46.2% of GDP in 2017. That is more than Denmark (46%), Sweden (44%) and Germany (37.5%) and far more than the OECD average (34.2%) or the U.S. (27.1%, which includes all levels of government).

Despite the stereotype of heavy European income taxes on the rich, Paris relies disproportionately on social-insurance, payroll and property taxes. Social taxes account for 37% of French revenue. The payroll tax is very regressive; it consumes a larger share of low and middle class earners than rich people.

Spending is also more regressive in France in that the biggest share goes to the middle and low-income earners. But it is a stupid system in which you tax one group to redistribute to that same group.

Then there is Sweden and the abysmal failure of socialism there in the 1990's because:
Socialism stopped creating jobs in the private sector.
Under Socialism, businesses stopped producing goods and services to be traded i the world market.
In Socialist Sweden, successful companies and Swedish celebrities fled to free economies across the world to escape debilitating taxes and regulations.
All of the above and other contributing factors eventually led to the collapse of Sweden's economy in the 1990's.

Venezuela was once one of the most prosperous countries in South America. But, a year of socialism has left it a shadow of its former self. People are starving, infrastructure is crumbling, the currency is collapsing and the rule of law is dissolving.

Socialism has failed in every country in which it has been tried, from the Soviet Union beginning a century ago to three modern countries that tried but ultimately rejected socialism: Israel, India and the United Kingdom.

Why did so many socialist economies fail?
One of the reasons is that a socialist system based upon a planned economy would not be able to allocate resources effectively due to the lack of price signals because demand cannot be known
without prices.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Demcratic socialism as applied to the Democratic party of the USA is a Republican construction. It is a specious argument, looks good at first glance but doesn't bear close inspection.

The Republicans seem to want to suppress minorities, suppress women, tax the poor but not the rich, eliminate the middle classes, remove any social programs that ease the burden on the overtaxed lower middle class, and generaly restrict any kind of human rights for rich people to enjoy. They seem to believe that only the rich should get medical care and the poor should just die, or whatever. They seem to believe that no one needs to feel any duty towards their country or follow any law they don't approve of.

And they write inane statements like the one below.



Evie RM said:


> Democrats keep promoting their socialist agendas. Socialism does not work.
> 
> Socialism - a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates the means of production, distribution and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
> 
> ...


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

The world is laughing at Biden. See it with your own eyes:






UK can't believe Biden not allowed to answer questions:






Australia believes Joe Biden has dementia:

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/never-before-has-the-leader-of-the-free-world-been-so-cognitively-compromised/video/be9b7424f0fb21409a50f17350bcb667


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> My husband, a senior computer network engineer for a huge company, is quite literally STUNNED at the ignorance of your answers. He is a moderate, believing in policies from both sides of the aisle. When he saw your answers to my points, he was astonished.
> 
> He looked at me and said: "You've got to be kidding me. Why would you even bother trying to have intelligent conversations with such people? They obviously aren't paying attention to what's going on in the country today. They truly must only be knitting in their Lazyboy chairs all day."
> 
> ...


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

knovice knitter said:


> Thank you for the information on Delta. A pilot who does not care about the safety of his crew or passengers will not be flying me anywhere.


LOL!!!! That is hilarious!!! I will notify one of my best buddies from college, who just happens to be one of Delta's big CEO's now. We will have a good laugh over it!!!! I don't think you will be missed at all now that Delta is the top airline in America (for the third year in a row)----with Southwest the second!!!!!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/24/best-us-airlines-in-2021-the-points-guy.html


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Me too.

I may not know politics but I do know people and I have an exceptional(yes I am bragging here)repeat exceptional BS detector. It has been with me all my life and has never let me down. Mr Trump stubs his toe every time he opens his mouth so I don't need to see news reports . I just have to see him and listen to him. I think he is a con man, a liar, he has no personal affinity with any one person, no one, and he sees everything and everybody as an item that can further his ambition. His similarity to Hitler is obvious although I do think Hitler was smarter and I personally believe he had every intention of taking over the US beyond his term of office just as many overseas "leaders" have done. However he has a simple streak,he is a little dumb, he thinks they did , so I can do it, but he doesn't know enough to pull it off. He is just not smart enough. He will continue to cause unrest but I am quite certain he will never attain his goal.

I can see a lie, face to face or via video quite easlily, not so much with the written word. I always know when I am being lied to, sometimes it is a pain but I always know. I can size someone up very quickly, it is rare but occasionally my BS detector come up with a possible maybe as to character , not lying though,and I need a couple of meetings to swing over one way or another.

I am not alone,sometimes we can't understand why we can do it..gift or curse, I don't know but some of us can.

Mr Trump is so easy to read, he is so transparent

Throw your knives now.



MoCoop said:


> Thank you, I was going to say something similar but restrained myself. She kind of made herself an easy target there.


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> LOL!!!! That is hilarious!!! I will notify one of my best buddies from college, who just happens to be one of Delta's big CEO's now. We will have a good laugh over it!!!! I don't think you will be missed at all now that Delta is the top airline in America (for the third year in a row)----with Southwest the second!!!!!
> 
> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/24/best-us-airlines-in-2021-the-points-guy.html


Just how many CEOs does Delta have? From what I have found Delta has what the word *CHIEF* would indicate *ONE*----"As CEO of Delta Air Lines, Ed Bastian leads a team of 90,000 global professionals that is building the world's premier international airline."

You use of hyperbole is amusing at best and definitely not enlightening.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Granny41 said:


> Just how many CEOs does Delta have?


I made a generalization-----my buddy is one of the big cheeses on the Executive Team at Delta. Wouldn't you just LOVE to know which one?

https://www.comparably.com/companies/delta-air-lines/executive-team

And all of your arguments are stupid about Trump. You argue that you DON'T LIKE HIM because of his personality. Therefore, you didn't think he was fit to run the country. None of your arguments take into account the good things he did for the country.

So......I'll ask you this. What GOOD THINGS has Dementia Joe Biden done for this country? And don't give me the sad old argument that he can't do anything good for the country because he "inherited Trump's problems". And please give me FACTS----with LINKS!!!!! I want LINKS and PROOF THAT HE DID SOMETHING GOOD!!!!

Right now, BOTH Democrats and Republicans would like to know what good Biden has done. Because:

----the economy is tanking, 
----unemployment is SKY HIGH, 
----the Democratic leadership is raising RPRICES AND TAXES, 
----the supply chain is breaking down, 
----crime in liberal cities is sky high, and
----other countries think Biden is demented, and
----we are headed for a recession.-


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> I made a generalization-----my buddy is one of the big cheeses on the Executive Team at Delta. Wouldn't you just LOVE to know which one?
> 
> https://www.comparably.com/companies/delta-air-lines/executive-team
> 
> ...


Quote:"'Wouldn't you just LOVE to know which one?"'

Frankly I could care less.
As to countering your ridiculous statements about Joe Biden with *links* why would I waste me time? You would just come back with more of your inane drivel.
I will pass thank you. It is time for dinner.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Granny41 said:


> As to countering your ridiculous statements about Joe Biden with *links* why would I waste me time?


Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?

Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:

----Biden is allowing children to be taught about white guilt, homoxsexuality, transgenderism in schools,
----Biden has allowed parents at PTA's to be called "terrorists" for disagreeing with the above,
----hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are pouring across our southern borders
----our taxes will pay for everything for all the illegal immigrants above,
----Biden has caused a REVOLT due to the vaccine mandate,
----Biden hasn't done anything but TALK about climate change,
----Biden completely turned France against us and is now in damage control,
----Biden completely SCREWED UP the Afghanistan withdrawal,
----Biden promised 1 billion COVID vaccines for low-income countries but only 110 million have been sent,
----Biden has allowed the Taliban to think America is weak,

Biden promises so much but DELIVERS NOTHING!!!!!

Come on everybody!!! (Or as Biden frequently says: "Come on, man!") Tell me what good Biden has done? PLEASE? TELL ME?


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Susie2016 said:


> Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:
> 
> ...


You are earning Pinocchio's by the handful with every line you write.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Oviously you're still in Oz.

You think our children shouldn't know the truth about slavery? You think that they should be taught lies? Knowing slavery is wrong, knowing bigotry is wrong, knowing where our forebears erred will help your children make better choices. Some white people behaved horribly, lynchings, raping, beatings, kids need to know that's wrong so it never happens again. Teaching your kids that they are superior because of skin color puts them at a disadvantage in the world of today. The internet has created a global community and white people are only one part of a world that comes in all colors. Your kids have to live in that world. Trying to recreate the 50's will not bring them any advantages. Learning to respect and work with peoples of all races is an important tool they need to thrive in a global economy.

Why are you afraid of homosexuality? It's not contagious. If you are heterosexual you are heterosexual, if you aren't, you aren't. Learning that there are more than two genders will not cause your children to grow up warped. Trust your kids. Educating them about the real world will give them the understanding to tolerate difference rather than fearing it. The genie is out of the bag, the world has moved on, telling your children lies about life will not help them cope with the world they have to live in. I am hetero myself because that is my nature, not for any other reason. I prefer men, I have woman friends and relatives that have other preferences. That's okay with me, they're good people and never take advantage of innocents. If any of your kids are biologically homosexual, understanding what makes them different will make their life a whole lot easier. They can choose to live a "normal" life, as you define it, but they will know why it is difficult for them and not blow their brains out in shame and frustration because you taught them they were evil.

Biden stopped the pipeline, he's trying to enact legislation to slow climate change but is being blocked by Republicans. I need more research here to tell you more.

Biden is doing a darn good job despite being blocked by Republicans and Trumplicans who would rather see America destroyed than have a Democrat lead it.

Oh by the way, France was pretty mad at Trump when he made an inapropriate comment about their firsl lady's figure.

I am not going to take the time right now for links because you won't pay attention anyhow. You'll only respond with more and I'm tired of wading through the slanted trash you dig up.



Susie2016 said:


> Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:
> 
> ...


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

spins2knit said:


> You are earning Pinocchio's by the handful with every line you write.


Admit it----you have NO KNOWLEDGE of the above things. You don't know anything about finance, the economy, our country's schools, unemployment, climate change, politics......and on and on.

You voted AGAINST Trump because you don't like him personally.

I don't particularly like my primary care physician but I keep him because he's a good doctor and takes care of me well. Same thing with Presidents. You may not like a candidate, but you should vote for one because he can run the country well, NOT because you like him personally.

Typical. I ask the liberals on KP for proof that Biden has done good things for the country and what do I hear........

CRICKETS!!!!!!!

He is a senile old man who has to be led around by his handlers. He won't take questions because his handlers know that if he does, he'll blow it and show the country his dementia. His speeches are written by somebody else and he reads them off note cards and a teleprompter.

And the Vice President was tasked with the southern border problem----AND SHE HASN'T DONE A BLESSED THING ABOUT IT. All she does is giggle uncontrollably whenever she's asked tough questions about any topic.

https://meaww.com/kamala-harris-laughs-hysterically-education-internet-asks-if-this-is-what-she-does-when-nervous


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

spins2knit said:


> You are earning Pinocchio's by the handful with every line you write.


So accurate, thanks, you always think of the perfect answers. In this thread I must define that I'm expressing true admiration, there is so much stuff going on that you might misinterpret.
As a writer, I really admire a well turned phrase and I am in awe and somewhat envious at this very apt answer.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Susie2016 said:


> You voted AGAINST Trump because you don't like him personally.
> 
> Um, I voted against him the first time because he is a lying cheat who has run many businesses into the ground. He had no political experience, was a womanizing bigot, and not very smart. He did not have the quality needed by a president of anything except maybe the kkk
> 
> ...


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

MoCoop said:


> Oh by the way, France was pretty mad at Trump when he made an inapropriate comment about their firsl lady's figure.
> 
> .


LOL!!!!! You don't even know why France is mad at us right now!!!!! HEH!!!! I assure you, it isn't over a silly comment about the first lady's figure!!!!

This is because you paid laser-like attention to every SOCIAL gaffe of Trump's played up in the media. But you did NOT pay attention to how he was running our country financially, economically, politically, etc. You just didn't like him because of his hound dog tendencies about women.

And now, you have NO IDEA how Biden is running our country, right? Even though he sniffs women's hair and inappropriately touches women all the time. (But that's okay because he's Biden, right?) Even Biden's wife had to come up with a defense about this for him.

https://www.ocalapost.com/from-hair-sniffing-to-inappropriately-touching-women-jill-biden-defends-joe/


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

MoCoop said:


> Susie2016 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump was a lousy president so I voted against him
> ...


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

And I still haven't seen anybody bring up points about Biden being a good president!!!!!

All I see is people trying to search my posts to find something to hold against me. But nobody can find anything good about Biden's administration. Maybe if you read the news (and not just the leftist news but other news and other countries' news) you might find something but I doubt it. 

I'm waiting?

Believe me, I gave Biden a chance, I truly did. But things have done NOTHING BUT GO DOWN since the day he bumbled his way into the White House, led by Jill's tight grip.

I'm not worried about the DH finding this. He's bored silly with anything relating to the topics listing COVID.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I see why you are a Trump fan, you have an ego as big as his with as little knowledge to back it up as he does. You believe his lies just as much as he does. And you brag about how smart you are and how you know the real truth just as much as he does. A perfect match.

You are smart enough to hide it from your husband, I'll grant you that. He is smart enough to recognize Trump for what he is. It's a good thing he finds what you write boring and that he doesn't know that you are lying to him in word and deed. I would listen to your husband, he's right about Trump. It is wrong to lie to him, though.

I researched the French thing, France should have been in the loop, they feel betrayed. Fortunately Biden learns from mistakes and this will not happen again. France lost a lucrative contract and feels betrayed by its allies, this will be corrected, but it may take time.

You only believe the news that agrees with your preconceived theories. I am tired of reading every piece of garbage you provide links to.

You don't believe anything that anyone else provides showing that you are in error, so why should I waste my time.

You already know everything, so you are incapable of learning anything new.

I don't usually get personal, but a direct insult entitles me to a response.



Susie2016 said:


> And I still haven't seen anybody bring up points about Biden being a good president!!!!!
> 
> All I see is people trying to search my posts to find something to hold against me. But nobody can find anything good about Biden's administration. Maybe if you read the news (and not just the leftist news but other news and other countries' news) you might find something but I doubt it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> …*I am tired of reading every piece of garbage you provide links to.*


I quit doing that long ago. I'd rather play with yarn.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I quit doing that long ago. I'd rather play with yarn.


Thanks for the sanity JJ. I did let myself get sucked into that one, even though I know better. She's having the time of her life being the center of attention and I was helping her.

I think I'll play with yarn instead.


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

It was hilarious on voting day. The DH had been mad at Trump for awhile and said he was going to vote for Biden. And he was so argumentative (and kind of mean about it) that I had to pretend to agree with him. We went down to the polls to vote. And he told the ladies we were going to vote for Biden. 

We turned in our papers, and the DH looked at me and said: "You didn't secretly vote for Trump did you?"

And I innocently said "no......"

Then he said: "Hah. I read the political posts on your KP. I'll find out."

Dang. So I pretended to vote for Biden on KP. I did it on one of my groups in Ravelry too, because they would eat you alive if you said you voted for Trump.

But now, the DH is sorry. He follows economics, finance, politics, and everything in the country. And our gas, groceries, and electric bills have gone up because of the liberals. He agrees the country is going to heck in a handbasket now. He says that as much as it pains him to say, he wishes he had not voted for Biden, even though he can't stand Trump personally. 

He even asked me: "Are you sorry you voted for Biden now?"

HAH!!!!! If he only knew. But I don't want him to know I lied to him about a hundred times about it. So I never admitted to him that I voted for Trump all along. Heck, I don't want him to know that I'm capable to fibbing to him about stuff. He might figure out I've fudged the truth about a lot of other things!!!!! 

The DH hasn't been reading KP lately because he says the only thing that was interesting to him was the political stuff and now that the election is over, it isn't a fun sport for him. And he hates Biden now anyway for running the country into the ground.


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

MoCoop said:


> I researched the French thing, France should have been in the loop, they feel betrayed.


And if you had to go look up why the French are mad at us, it means you didn't know in the first place. Because you don't know what's going on in the country or the world. That's why you vote the way you do. You allow the leftist media to control your voting.

The reason you guys don't read my links is that you are extremely frightened that you might learn something negative about your precious liberal ideology. You don't WANT to know how wrong you are. It's kind of like a frightened child who doesn't want to look under the bed at night because there might be a monster there.

All of you liberals definitely need to stick to playing with yarn!!!! Politics, economics, and finance definitely don't suit you!!!

Well, gotta go. You're cutting into my Quora and Reddit time. (I bet you guys don't know what they are either.......)


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

I read this someplace recently and think it applies here "Never argue with someone who believes their own lies"
Total waste of time and playing with yarn is much more interesting.
Not watching this anymore and moving on.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

farmlady said:


> I read this someplace recently and think it applies here "Never argue with someone who believes their own lies"
> Total waste of time and playing with yarn is much more interesting.
> Not watching this anymore and moving on.


Would that I were as wise as you!
I'll hang around awhile longer.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> I made a generalization-----my buddy is one of the big cheeses on the Executive Team at Delta. Wouldn't you just LOVE to know which one?
> 
> https://www.comparably.com/companies/delta-air-lines/executive-team
> 
> ...


Your list is predominately due to the pandemic, which your leader called a hoax. Biden orchestrated the distribution of the vaccine which has saved countless lives. trump's denial of the seriousness of this virus killed hundreds of thousands.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:
> 
> ...


You ask us for links to our statements, yet you provide none.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

knovice knitter said:


> You ask us for links to our statements, yet you provide none.


Oh don't ask her for links, she will bury you in garbage, they are all trumpish, far leaning, conspiracy theory laden, sensationalism type things, usually long debunked, from dubious sources, packed with the lies that she parrots so nicely. I like to read everything to keep a balanced view, but reading these things is like taking a poo shower, they take a smidgeon of truth and twist it into grotesque fantasies they present as facts. I've read so many nauseous articles that I won't open any more of her links. If she makes a mistake and supplies a true one I'll never know.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Ooh! Lookie! She can copy and paste! We should worry!


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Sorry no time.I have to take the garbage out


Susie2016 said:


> Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:
> 
> ...


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I can't stop laughing, stop it or I will have to start buying Attends


spins2knit said:


> Ooh! Lookie! She can copy and paste! We should worry!


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

MoCoop can you hear me appaluding, this is one of your best replies and I agree with every bit of it..What if one of their kids falls for someone of another race, etc etc, will they disown that kid. God help those kids.



MoCoop said:


> Oviously you're still in Oz.
> 
> You think our children shouldn't know the truth about slavery? You think that they should be taught lies? Knowing slavery is wrong, knowing bigotry is wrong, knowing where our forebears erred will help your children make better choices. Some white people behaved horribly, lynchings, raping, beatings, kids need to know that's wrong so it never happens again. Teaching your kids that they are superior because of skin color puts them at a disadvantage in the world of today. The internet has created a global community and white people are only one part of a world that comes in all colors. Your kids have to live in that world. Trying to recreate the 50's will not bring them any advantages. Learning to respect and work with peoples of all races is an important tool they need to thrive in a global economy.
> 
> ...


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

No probs, children need toys, consider it a donation to a needy kid!!


MoCoop said:


> Thanks for the sanity JJ. I did let myself get sucked into that one, even though I know better. She's having the time of her life being the center of attention and I was helping her.
> 
> I think I'll play with yarn instead.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Frightened child, we are not controlled by the men in our ife


Susie2016 said:


> And if you had to go look up why the French are mad at us, it means you didn't know in the first place. Because you don't know what's going on in the country or the world. That's why you vote the way you do. You allow the leftist media to control your voting.
> 
> The reason you guys don't read my links is that you are extremely frightened that you might learn something negative about your precious liberal ideology. You don't WANT to know how wrong you are. It's kind of like a frightened child who doesn't want to look under the bed at night because there might be a monster there.
> 
> ...


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Frightened child, *we are not controlled by the men in our life*


Damn right!!


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

JJ please go and look at my new post on getting sqishy mail I would very much like your opinion,, you said we have to play with yarn


Jessica-Jean said:


> Damn right!!


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> It was hilarious on voting day. The DH had been mad at Trump for awhile and said he was going to vote for Biden. And he was so argumentative (and kind of mean about it) that I had to pretend to agree with him. We went down to the polls to vote. And he told the ladies we were going to vote for Biden.
> 
> We turned in our papers, and the DH looked at me and said: "You didn't secretly vote for Trump did you?"
> 
> ...


I find your total lack of respect for your husband mind boggling even more so than your political leaning


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I agree when she tells us how she has lied to him, and she has accused him of being mean to her, he checks her KP writings and obviously keeps her in her place,so she has to hide things from him, to me that is a an domestic abuse situation. Maybe that is why she is angry and and argumentive with us but she can' t at home as she is scared of him. It sems to expalin a few odd things


bevvyreay said:


> I find your total lack of respect for your husband mind boggling even more so than your political leaning


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Susie2016 said:


> Because you CAN'T!!!!!! You know NOTHING about finance, the economy, unemployment, politics, the Middle East, or ANY of those things I listed above. Why don't you ask your husband or someone who DOES know about those things?
> 
> Oh yeah, I forgot to say the other things going wrong in our country that Joe Biden has done:
> 
> ...


Ask my husband? Of course since I am female I cannot possibly know anything about economics , finance or politics ! I would have to echo the opinions of a man. Obviously that is how you roll! Sweetheart I worked in the financial sector (commercial banking) for my entire adult life. I will warrant you that I have a deep understanding of the machinations of business.


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> I agree when she tells us how she has lied to him, and she has accused him of being mean to her, he checks her KP writings and obviously keeps her in her place,so she has to hide things from him, to me that is a an domestic abuse situation. Maybe that is why she is angry and and argumentive with us but she can' t at home as she is scared of him. It sems to expalin a few odd things


Hmm possibly, but as a child of a domestic violence victim it sounds to me that she finds the situation far too funny. Who knows ????‍♀


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Granny41 said:


> Ask my husband? Of course since I am female I cannot possibly know anything about economics , finance or politics ! I would have to echo the opinions of a man. Obviously that is how you roll! Sweetheart I worked in the financial sector (commercial banking) for my entire adult life. I will warrant you that I have a deep understanding of the machinations of business.


Good on you Granny41, I'd much rather read your words than the vain posturing of one who lies to and hides behind her husband. My late husband and I both worked in banking, I was mostly clerical and in consumer lending, for only 7 years, and do not have the experience you do in commercial banking but I do know from listening to my late husband, a commercial loan officer, that the commercial lending in any town (Reno & Las Vegas in our case) strongly reflects and is influenced by national and international financial activity. You cannot be successful in the field without being acutely aware of world politics and finance.

lol, even if I did ask my other half, he says put Trump in jail for any number of crimes up to and including treason, he can't understand why he's not already in jail. Get rid of the Trumplicans who are obstructing the handling of the pandemic and the reunification of this country, vote them out and repeal their laws that restrict women and prevent people from voting and jail the ones that have broken laws and/or caused deaths by their actions. Get rid of the current postmaster and rebuild the USPS back to the shining example of how mail should be handled it formerly was. Tax the rich and tax corporations, tax them fairly - and heavily. Nationalize health care so that everyone has access to good care and the insurance companies and drug companies don't fatten themselves on human misery. Place and enforce mask mandates in public places - including a proviso that if people do not want to vaccinate or wear masks they are so entitled but cannot enter public places without wearing proper masks in the correct manner, including hospitals should they become ill. They can do the curbside delivery and on line shopping that the rest of us are doing now.

I am so proud of my sweetie. He sees with clear eyes and holds everyone accountable for their own actions. We don't agree on everything, I could not bar the stupid from hospitals when they are dying from covid (I don't think he would either, really) but for the most part we agree.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

bevvyreay said:


> I find your total lack of respect for your husband mind boggling even more so than your political leaning


I find that he goes through her knitting forum to spy on her mind=boggling. Even though she voted for trump, his vote canceled it. She should be able to vote for whom she wants and it is none of his business. Lying is disrespectful, but it would have been handled better if she fessed up in the first place. If it meant hell from him, he's got control problems. I suspect this anyway, since he looks up her comments on KP.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

bevvyreay said:


> Hmm possibly, but as a child of a domestic violence victim it sounds to me that she finds the situation far too funny. Who knows ????‍♀


I think she finds it normal or she is laughing nervously. Maybe this man's abuse is verbal so far.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

knovice knitter said:


> I find that he goes through her knitting forum to spy on her mind=boggling. Even though she voted for trump, his vote canceled it. She should be able to vote for whom she wants and it is none of his business. Lying is disrespectful, but it would have been handled better if she fessed up in the first place. If it meant hell from him, he's got control problems. I suspect this anyway, since he looks up her comments on KP.


She contradicted herself. In a couple of posts she claimed that her husband reads what others post on KP and finds it all very funny. Then she claims that she has lied to him about who she voted for. If in fact he reads KP and if in fact she did lie to him then does it not follow that he knows she lied? DUH!

Quote:"He even asked me: "Are you sorry you voted for Biden now?"

HAH!!!!! If he only knew. But I don't want him to know I lied to him about a hundred times about it. So I never admitted to him that I voted for Trump all along. Heck, I don't want him to know that I'm capable to fibbing to him about stuff. He might figure out I've fudged the truth about a lot of other things!!!!!"

Quote: "I lied. I voted for him. I didn't want my DH to see that I did. He frequently reads KP to crack himself up. I still have to say I'm for Biden so that the DH won't try to get into arguments with me. He hates Trump with a purple passion."


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I notice that too, she often contradicts herself, she changes the story to reflect whatever point she is pushing. She writes like a kid who likes to flame adults (Back in the glory days of Pogo kids like that came and went quite often) she seems to glory in the attention, brags constantly and puts everyone else, including her husband down. I wonder if she even has a husband?
She does have a gift for drawing people into inane converstations, shes suckered me in more than once.



Granny41 said:


> She contradicted herself. In a couple of posts she claimed that her husband reads what others post on KP and finds it all very funny. Then she claims that she has lied to him about who she voted for. If in fact he reads KP and if in fact she did lie to him then does it not follow that he knows she lied? DUH!
> 
> Quote:"He even asked me: "Are you sorry you voted for Biden now?"
> 
> ...


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> I notice that too, she often contradicts herself, she changes the story to reflect whatever point she is pushing. She writes like a kid who likes to flame adults (Back in the glory days of Pogo kids like that came and went quite often) she seems to glory in the attention, brags constantly and puts everyone else, including her husband down. I wonder if she even has a husband?
> She does have a gift for drawing people into inane converstations, shes suckered me in more than once.


Bragging about being a pal of 'one of the CEOs' of a airline and wouldn't I love to know who it is. If it was the CEO of the airline that is holding my nearly $2,000. fare from two flights that I had to cancel because of COVID the answer would be yes. Otherwise--no.


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## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Yep I agree and she could be simply baiting us,but... denial and excusing the partner is common, maybe making light of it is how she deals with it,maybe in her world she believes that men own their women, she certainly believes other things that are odd in my opinion.I would hope not and would go as far as to say, if what she says is so then I would suggest she get help.


bevvyreay said:


> Hmm possibly, but as a child of a domestic violence victim it sounds to me that she finds the situation far too funny. Who knows ????‍♀


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

LOL!!!!! Typical liberals. Please, go back to your yarn-playing lives. You are completely unaware of what is going on in the country and the world. The things you say don't bother me a bit. I expect those sort of things from you. Insulting me is your only defense. 

You are unable to show me anything Biden has done good for the country. You are unable to counter my arguments. So you just insult me and run off to your knitting chairs. You also insult any news source which shows my arguments are completely correct. 

So tra la la. You don't interest me any longer.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Yep I agree and she could be simply baiting us,but... denial and excusing the partner is common, maybe making light of it is how she deals with it,maybe in her world she believes that men own their women, she certainly believes other things that are odd in my opinion.I would hope not and would go as far as to say, if what she says is so then I would suggest she get help.


I'm sure you're right. Baiting is a good word for it.

I almost lost the original theme of the thread in all the hoo hoo going on in here.

I really liked the post that reminded us that vaccination and masks take some of the pressure off of our over worked medical people. The hospital staff here change out of their scrubs before leaving work, they are being threatened.

We are going to get on the waiting list for the Moderna booster, they will be available here soon. I feel kind of guilty getting a booster when so many here have not even had their first shot, but they don't want it so I will be happy to get it.


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## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> I'm sure you're right. Baiting is a good word for it.
> 
> I almost lost the original theme of the thread in all the hoo hoo going on in here.
> 
> ...


I have my referral letter from my GP for a booster. I will be taking it to the regional health dept on Tuesday afternoon and getting my third Pfizer shot.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Susie2016 said:


> LOL!!!!! Typical liberals. Please, go back to your yarn-playing lives. You are completely unaware of what is going on in the country and the world. The things you say don't bother me a bit. I expect those sort of things from you. Insulting me is your only defense.
> 
> You are unable to show me anything Biden has done good for the country. You are unable to counter my arguments. So you just insult me and run off to your knitting chairs. You also insult any news source which shows my arguments are completely correct.
> 
> So tra la la. You don't interest me any longer.


I gave you an example of Biden's good deeds. Guess you can't read.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

MoCoop said:


> I'm sure you're right. Baiting is a good word for it.
> 
> I almost lost the original theme of the thread in all the hoo hoo going on in here.
> 
> ...


Just listened to NPR yesterday and they were saying that mixed booster shots might be better.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

MoCoop said:


> I'm sure you're right. Baiting is a good word for it.
> 
> I almost lost the original theme of the thread in all the hoo hoo going on in here.
> 
> ...


https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02853-4


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

knovice knitter said:


> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02853-4


I will look further into this, thank you. We had the Moderna, maybe combined with the Pfizer? I will ask my doctors. A lot will be dependent on what is available in our area. We are kind of at the end of the supply chain.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> .https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02853-4


Thanks for finding that report.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02853-4


Very interesting! Thanks.


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## Juleen (Jun 3, 2011)

My family got shots for Covid disease! We went to a local building where many events are held! They were very organized! We sat in the car with the window down. Hubby drove and I sat in the back seat. When it was our turn I simply rolled up the sleeve of my left arm after rolling down the window. The nurse simply wiped the area, gave me a shot and we drove home! We had a small amount of soreness but nothing really bad. My best friend came down with Covid before we became aware of it! She went to their local hospital which was full so they put her on a shelf in a closet until a doctor could get to her! We both laugh now!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Juleen said:


> My family got shots for Covid disease! We went to a local building where many events are held! They were very organized! We sat in the car with the window down. Hubby drove and I sat in the back seat. When it was our turn I simply rolled up the sleeve of my left arm after rolling down the window. The nurse simply wiped the area, gave me a shot and we drove home! We had a small amount of soreness but nothing really bad. My best friend came down with Covid before we became aware of it! She went to their local hospital which was full so they put her on a shelf in a closet until a doctor could get to her! We both laugh now!


I'm glad her case wasn't lethal!

No drive-through for us. We parked in the indoor parking of the Olympic stadium, walked through the various 'stations*', got shots, sat awhile, and went home. 
*hand sanitizer, new face mask, temperature scan, name checked off on appointment register, questions, answers plugged into computer system, injection.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I'm glad her case wasn't lethal!
> 
> No drive-through for us. We parked in the indoor parking of the Olympic stadium, walked through the various 'stations*', got shots, sat awhile, and went home.
> *hand sanitizer, new face mask, temperature scan, name checked off on appointment register, questions, answers plugged into computer system, injection.


We got ours at our doctor's office, the poor nurse was chipper the first dose and worn to a frazzle by the second dose, bless her heart. Although exhausted, she was as careful and almost as gentle as the first time. I think those weeks were an endless series of bare arms and injections for her. 
We sat 25 minutes each time after our jab and then were checked off the list as ok and sent home. We did get our second shot appointment the first appointment, we filled out the paperwork on line prior to the appointment but they still asked us allergy and health questions. We received our handwritten vaccination cards with all the info, we carry them in our wallets.
It was all done indoors but everyone was properly masked and distanced and the sanitizer lady was making the rounds as people progressed through the line, the actual injection was given in a quiet room, with a bit of privacy. It was very thorough, efficient, and well organized.
We will soon be able to set an appointment for our booster, we are waiting for the email notification


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> … It was very thorough, efficient, and well organized.
> We will soon be able to set an appointment for our booster, we are waiting for the email notification


Ditto, though there was zero visual privacy in the huge space under the stadium proper. Everyone was well spaced out - out of earshot, if not view.


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Ditto, though there was zero visual privacy in the huge space under the stadium proper. Everyone was well spaced out - out of earshot, if not view.


We are so fortunate to have the vaccine available in most of north America, and to have safe and efficient distribution and organization. It boggles my mind that people would refuse it.

Perhaps if it had been rolled out as a benefit for Democrats and Indepentents and other parties approved by government only, the others would have protested and demanded that they get the vaccinations. We would have reached herd immunity through vaccination before the delta variant reached our shores.

That would make as much sense as what is happening now.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Why does anyone need privacy for a shot in the arm? My first dose was in a raging snowstorm and I was able to dress so that nothing but my arm was exposed.

Did I miss something?


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## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

My personal preference is always privacy, I'm made that way. I would have gone ahead and gotten my vax if it hadn't been private, but I was much more comfortable with a little bit of privacy. I don't like being stared at, especially when I'm vulnerable.



spins2knit said:


> Why does anyone need privacy for a shot in the arm? My first dose was in a raging snowstorm and I was able to dress so that nothing but my arm was exposed.
> 
> Did I miss something?


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