# "War on Women" #13



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're proud of you.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, so much! Things have been difficult for me lately. I appreciate all the support I've been getting. Also I'm one of little self confidence or self worth so the flattery is great.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Designer. I wasn't always open minded. I learned that from getting to know you guys. Even though we disagree on much, I'm able to see both sides and look for what we have in common. Initially, I thought you guys were mean and nasty.  No more! I count you all as loyal friends! I'm better for having gotten to know all of you!


And your friendship has helped us grow. Thanks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> repay her by hanging pictures of everyone but her, designate a Wall to them and invite her for a viewing and to add insult, include pictures of total strangers.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I love how your mind works, Huck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Shirley, it seems like you are receiving your just reward at a good time in LIFE. Enjoy.



Designer1234 said:


> I am another who had little self confidence of a feeling of self worth. It has taken me a long time to accept myself for who I am and it has made a difference with my teaching but mostly my husband. I think that more people have those feelings than you would expect. YOu have to work your way through it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Once my mother decided to try that trick and hid under the bed. She finally just came out in a huff with dust bunnies in her hair.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My mom just said "wait til your father gets home". And actually, I only got in trouble once. My mom didn't like my brother and he got blamed for everything. She'd always beat on him with a spanking paddle. Then she'd want my dad to beat him when he got home. When he wouldn't, she'd pack her bags and leave us. She'd always be home in the morning, but as a child, we always thought she was leaving us for good. It was very traumatic.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same thing here in the Southwest, although fires are a huge concern. Firemen soak the areas where the official fireworks are designed. I'm a nervous wreck.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why can't people wait until the Fourth of July (Independence Day), to light off their fireworks?!? I'm so tired of listening to it! We are surrounded by idiots who've spent thousands of dollars to light off what sounds like bombs! It's been incessant for weeks now. Day and night. I have no problem with it on the holiday, but this is ridiculous. They're also lighting off the great big ones like you see in a fireworks show and its not even dark yet. Idiots!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good to hear your results so far.



Designer1234 said:


> right!!!!
> 
> Well everyone, I am going to bed and read for awhile -- have to go to the hospital and pick up a holter monitor which will monitor my heart for 24 hours. that will be the end of the heart tests. I think things are okay as no one has contacted me regarding the echo cardiagram or the perfusions stress test and they told me at both places that if there was a serious problem they would let me know immediately and no word yet. I think I am doing okay and that is not the basis for the problems I was having. Will confirm it once the monitor gives my heart info to the doctor and she can check out all the results. She will contact me but I am quite positive about it.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely reply.



TrueAthena said:


> "I'm not Lisa, my name is Julie
> Lisa left you years ago
> My eyes are not blue
> But mine won't leave you
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Romeo and Juliet Act II. Scene II. CAPULETS Orchard.
> 
> So what is there in a name but a name?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You are proof that open minds can communicate and you and Bonnie are welcome here. No one else is interested in finding that out, which is a shame. You have your beliefs and so do we, but you acknowledge that the aim is the same. Different ideas as to how to accomplish good for your country. It takes two to be friends-- you are a friend of ours. Once again, I applaud you.


Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


Don't twist what I was saying and put words in my mouth. thank you. They are the ones who keep their own opinions and beliefs but are willing to stop attacking and have a conversation. I applaud them. We all gain by that.

I am aware that that is not your agenda. No need to reply - I know exactly where you are coming from. We (and you) know there is nothing more cliquish than D and P where we have been told we are not welcome to your little group nor are we to be answered or treated with respect. A clique doesn't want or allow outsiders to join in - look to D and P for the perfect example of a clique.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am another who had little self confidence of a feeling of self worth. It has taken me a long time to accept myself for who I am and it has made a difference with my teaching but mostly my husband. I think that more people have those feelings than you would expect. YOu have to work your way through it.


I think more of us have insecurities than don't. Although I always did well in school, I was shy about making friends. That may have come from moving to an entirely different environment the summer when I was 9 and needing to wait for a month until school started.

I was lucky to have a lovely girl a year younger next door who welcomed me into her friendship group. It was a happy summer sitting on the branch of a cherry tree, each of us reading, and sometimes reading aloud to one another.

But it is hard being the new kid when others have been friends since diaper days. It was almost 40 years later that one of my friends confided to my husband at a high school reunion that some of the kids were intimidated because I had come from New York and was so smart. Now he told me!

I never did get into sports activities other than my little group playing tennis and roller skating. The athletes and the cheer leaders were the social big shots in school and some of them were extremely arrogant.

It took the confidence my husband has in me to give me the strength to assert myself and build my self confidence. Probably part of it was my parents "protected" me from situations where I could get hurt. If you don't try stuff, you can't succeed, and you learn from your failures how to succeed the next time. With our daughter, we gave her much more free rein. Once she thanked me for raising her with "benign neglect". We were her safety net, not her leash.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahahaha! This I gotta see! Post a pic!


My husband called it the Wonder Woman look!


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## Emmy Cat (Jul 22, 2012)

I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???


eMMY


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think more of us have insecurities than don't. Although I always did well in school, I was shy about making friends. That may have come from moving to an entirely different environment the summer when I was 9 and needing to wait for a month until school started.
> 
> I was lucky to have a lovely girl a year younger next door who welcomed me into her friendship group. It was a happy summer sitting on the branch of a cherry tree, each of us reading, and sometimes reading aloud to one another.
> 
> ...


That is the story of my life too - except we were not treated that well by our Father. I was the dreamer - sis was much more to his liking as she was athletic and didn't take any trash from him. I just withdrew. I left home at l6 and moved to Toronto -- a green kid from the west. I survived it and learned I could stand on my own two feet. Then my husband was like yours - absolutely supportive and that is what made the difference.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You're too funny, Huck! I think there are enough options for every person to flaunt what she wants to flaunt. I'm always surprised when I go into a bra department at how many bras have these big, plain "molded" cups---I think it's a new name for a padded bra.


Those things look industrial strength. They can make someone with a modest endowment look huge with nothing but the molded cup.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I hear you! People around here light 'em off year round and give my dog the vapors. At least in the summer the windows are shut when the A/C is on--
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


You know what kind of vapors I was thinking of? Might be better with the windows open. :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I am so sorry that you had such an unfair Mom. Mine was a true Angel, strict but always fair and oh so loving. She had lost her Mom at the age of 3 and longed for her all of her Life. We adored her and nothing was too much for our Mom, we tried to Mother her. We miss her terribly. I wish you Peace and Love, Huck.


I always wished I had a Mom like yours! I had the next best thing. My best friend's Mom was a Mom to the whole neighborhood. Her Mom has died, but we're still best friends. We've known each other since Kindergarten. You were very fortunate. Lucky you!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why can't people wait until the Fourth of July (Independence Day), to light off their fireworks?!? I'm so tired of listening to it! We are surrounded by idiots who've spent thousands of dollars to light off what sounds like bombs! It's been incessant for weeks now. Day and night. I have no problem with it on the holiday, but this is ridiculous. They're also lighting off the great big ones like you see in a fireworks show and its not even dark yet. Idiots!


Privately operated fireworks are illegal in NJ, but people still manage to smuggle them in from PA where they are legal within the state. We have a county park that has concerts during the summer and fireworks displays after each concert, and a minor league baseball team nearby that has fireworks displays in late June through July after home games. Before the trees grew so tall, when we had solar collectors on our roof, we could sit there and watch the shows.

The best fireworks in my memory were at Expo in Montreal in 1967 and when daughter and I spent a few days at Disney World.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> And the sexiest thing to do is to run the sweeper.


He does that Friday mornings. And washes the kitchen floor. Is this a keeper or is this not a keeper? He started after he retired and I kept working the next 15 or so years. And I let him continue after I retired.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


Dear, dear, short sighted LTL. You call others a clique when FFDP comes across as the cliquiest of the clicquey? When some of you regulars on FFDP tell "intruders" into your love fest to get lost, that we are not welcome?

Or should I call you dear, dear Pot? Signed, Kettle.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> "I'm not Lisa, my name is Julie
> Lisa left you years ago
> My eyes are not blue
> But mine won't leave you
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


A discussion on the pointy bras from the 50s. I mentioned that I have one.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Of course, but you can tell her how talented she is in arranging things herself. Tell her you won't mind a bit when she changes things herself. Good luck. The Pope will have you at the top of the sainthood list.


She can move the knick knacks but not the furniture, especially the end tables. She has tables everywhere! Five in the living room alone! Its wall to wall furniture and knick knacks cover everything. But I am done! From here on out I'm only cleaning.

I don't think I'll be eligible for sainthood, though. I think bad thoughts while I'm doing all of the rearranging. ;-)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> We're proud of you.


Thank you! I don't deserve it though. After I do my good deeds, I come on here and talk about her, behind her back. I'm a very bad person.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I don't deserve it though. After I do my good deeds, I come on here and talk about her, behind her back. I'm a very bad person.


I don't agree - in situations like yours it sometimes helps to vent. We are a neutral place where your comments don't hurt anyone and it give you a chance to let the anger and frustration go. We all use this forum for that at one time or another.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I think sometimes it is good to know that not all people are the same or have the same opinions. Here in Canada, generally I think we do a pretty good job now but not in the past,except in the matter of the racism which has been nurtured by Religious Missionaries- mainly Catholic residential schools, for First Nations people, throughout our history. Our reservations are still a disgrace in many ways, and there is a lot of discussion as to how the situation can be improved. Some of the reservations are on oil rich land and huge amounts of money have been turned over to the individual tribes, in some cases to their detriment. They have had no training or history of how to handle millions of dollars and there has been graft, and thievery and misuse on many of them. I can understand that as the First Nations people have been treated poorly for hundreds of years here. They have been considered 2nd class citizens -Children were removed from their homes and were separated from their parents and sent to Residential schools and it was part of the school system that tried to make them forget their heritage. As a result there were huge difficulties among tribal members and there was suffering, abuse and rape.
> 
> Poor education, alcoholism, poverty in many cases, racism in other
> situations. I understand that this is a problem in the U.S. too.
> ...


Shirley, I always enjoy your glimpses of pre-war Canada, and this one says a lot.

And please thank Pat for the part he played in protecting the new State of Israel.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Once my mother decided to try that trick and hid under the bed. She finally just came out in a huff with dust bunnies in her hair.


That's a good one! I can imagine how she felt. Funny!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Same thing here in the Southwest, although fires are a huge concern. Firemen soak the areas where the official fireworks are designed. I'm a nervous wreck.


At least we've had LOTS of rain lately. But the rooftops are still dry, so its a concern.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here's a good one for you... she didn't have room for all of the family pictures so she chose pics of her and hubby, parents, sisters and brother and daughter who died as a child. NOT ones of her kids, grandkids and great grandkids. Nothing like being snubbed after all the hard work! She's getting rid of all of fil's stuff except those with prestige, even stuff he made for her. She's very strange, VERY self centered. I've never known anybody so self centered!


May I offer a different interpretation? As long as she still has kid, grandkids, and great-grandkids, she'll get new pictures of them and will build up a collection soon enough. The ones she kept are ones that can never be replaced because the subjects are gone. If she felt that she had to get rid of some, this was a rational way to choose.

Cut her some slack (I know you've been doing that already - in fact, you've cut her a few pairs of slacks). She's going to be living alone for the first time in many, many years. She must feel insecure, and some people try to repress their insecurity by insisting on having things done their way and for them. This looks like self-centeredness but it's really self-preservation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> repay her by hanging pictures of everyone but her, designate a Wall to them and invite her for a viewing and to add insult, include pictures of total strangers.


Please don't be mean, Huckleberry.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Mom had a certain pitch in her voice when she wanted our attention and it sure worked. It was earsplitting. Dad just had that threatening look.


My mother would simply stop speaking to whoever she was angry at. _That_ was earsplitting and always got our attention.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh my gosh! I remember those awful pointy bras! Luckily, I never had to wear one! I cannot imagine why women didn't reject them.


They couldn't reject what Hollywood stars were wearing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Think of Madonna. Pointy to the max!


And she wore those bras over her clothes, so we all got the point.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think more of us have insecurities than don't. Although I always did well in school, I was shy about making friends. That may have come from moving to an entirely different environment the summer when I was 9 and needing to wait for a month until school started.
> 
> I was lucky to have a lovely girl a year younger next door who welcomed me into her friendship group. It was a happy summer sitting on the branch of a cherry tree, each of us reading, and sometimes reading aloud to one another.
> 
> ...


My situation was the opposite. We moved to Omaha when I was 14. It was the best thing that happened to me. I was born with a bright red birthmark over half my face. A plastic surgeon used dry ice to burn it off. It worked great except it left a scar right under my nose. Kids would ask what it was and I told them the truth. That was a mistake. From then on, I was known as " frozen booger". It was torture! Kids can be so cruel. When we moved to Omaha, nobody cared. I had friends and started to come out of myself. It was a wonderful change for me.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I don't deserve it though. After I do my good deeds, I come on here and talk about her, behind her back. I'm a very bad person.


Just a very human one, and a very honest one. If you can't vent among non judgmental friends, where can you? I am sure many of us, me included, have had less than positive interactions with MILs. Probably made us better MILs ourselves.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband called it the Wonder Woman look!


I still wanna see a pic of SQM in her wonder woman bra. Don't you? What a hoot!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


Anything and everything! Its evolving!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks Designer! I can actually remember the first time I started to look at things differently. It was on LOLL. We were talking about minimum wage and welfare. I was vastly outnumbered, and felt like I was being ganged up on. I felt as if no one would even listen. I got rude and condescending and you guys called me out on it. I thought about it and you were right! I could see how rude and intolerant I'd been. Instead of continuing my defensiveness, I apologized. I also left LOLL when I was asked to, because it was my way of showing you that I meant my apology and I respected you all for calling me out. I also realized that we wanted pretty much the same things, we just disagreed on how to get them. Since then, you've all returned that respect multifold. And I cannot begin to explain how my perspective has changed. I've been shown much support, caring and compassion. And I wouldn't change a thing (except that some day, I will convince somebody of something).


Okay, I was debating myself about whether to post this; you've just given me the answer, but I'm putting it my next message, because of length.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Those things look industrial strength. They can make someone with a modest endowment look huge with nothing but the molded cup.


Those are the only ones I can wear. After a mastectomy, I got an implant. This was right after chemo and I weighed about 100 lbs. So after I went back to my normal weight, the implant is way too small. I didn't want to have surgery again so I get the heavily padded bras and no one can tell. They are self supporting. :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> May I offer a different interpretation? As long as she still has kid, grandkids, and great-grandkids, she'll get new pictures of them and will build up a collection soon enough. The ones she kept are ones that can never be replaced because the subjects are gone. If she felt that she had to get rid of some, this was a rational way to choose.
> 
> Cut her some slack (I know you've been doing that already - in fact, you've cut her a few pairs of slacks). She's going to be living alone for the first time in many, many years. She must feel insecure, and some people try to repress their insecurity by insisting on having things done their way and for them. This looks like self-centeredness but it's really self-preservation.


Thank you for the perspective.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What a cliqueish read. Must be careful not to offend.



lovethelake said:


> Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Please don't be mean, Huckleberry.


It was a joke. We can say it without meaning it. I've been doing a lot of that lately. I love my mil but she's driving me crazy. She's talking at me as we "speak". No peace!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

*Build We Wont* 
by Paul Krugman

You often find people talking about our economic difficulties as if they were complicated and mysterious, with no obvious solution. As the economist Dean Baker recently pointed out, nothing could be further from the truth. The basic story of what went wrong is, in fact, almost absurdly simple: We had an immense housing bubble, and, when the bubble burst, it left a huge hole in spending. Everything else is footnotes.

And the appropriate policy response was simple, too: Fill that hole in demand. In particular, the aftermath of the bursting bubble was (and still is) a very good time to invest in infrastructure. In prosperous times, public spending on roads, bridges and so on competes with the private sector for resources. Since 2008, however, our economy has been awash in unemployed workers (especially construction workers) and capital with no place to go (which is why government borrowing costs are at historic lows). Putting those idle resources to work building useful stuff should have been a no-brainer.

But what actually happened was exactly the opposite: an unprecedented plunge in infrastructure spending. Adjusted for inflation and population growth, public expenditures on construction have fallen more than 20 percent since early 2008. In policy terms, this represents an almost surreally awful wrong turn; weve managed to weaken the economy in the short run even as we undermine its prospects for the long run. Well played!

And its about to get even worse. The federal highway trust fund, which pays for a large part of American road construction and maintenance, is almost exhausted. Unless Congress agrees to top up the fund somehow, road work all across the country will have to be scaled back just a few weeks from now. If this were to happen, it would quickly cost us hundreds of thousands of jobs, which might derail the employment recovery that finally seems to be gaining steam. And it would also reduce long-run economic potential.

How did things go so wrong? As with so many of our problems, the answer is the combined effect of rigid ideology and scorched-earth political tactics. The highway fund crisis is just one example of a much broader problem.

So, about the highway fund: Road spending is traditionally paid for via dedicated taxes on fuel. The federal trust fund, in particular, gets its money from the federal gasoline tax. In recent years, however, revenue from the gas tax has consistently fallen short of needs. Thats mainly because the tax rate, at 18.4 cents per gallon, hasnt changed since 1993, even as the overall level of prices has risen more than 60 percent.

Its hard to think of any good reason why taxes on gasoline should be so low, and its easy to think of reasons, ranging from climate concerns to reducing dependence on the Middle East, why gas should cost more. So theres a very strong case for raising the gas tax, even aside from the need to pay for road work. But even if we arent ready to do that right now  if, say, we want to avoid raising taxes until the economy is stronger  we dont have to stop building and repairing roads. Congress can and has topped up the highway trust fund from general revenue. In fact, it has thrown $54 billion into the hat since 2008. Why not do it again?

But no. We cant simply write a check to the highway fund, were told, because that would increase the deficit. And deficits are evil, at least when theres a Democrat in the White House, even if the government can borrow at incredibly low interest rates. And we cant raise gas taxes because that would be a tax increase, and tax increases are even more evil than deficits. So our roads must be allowed to fall into disrepair.

If this sounds crazy, thats because it is. But similar logic lies behind the overall plunge in public investment. Most such investment is carried out by state and local governments, which generally must run balanced budgets and saw revenue decline after the housing bust. But the federal government could have supported public investment through deficit-financed grants, and states themselves could have raised more revenue (which some but not all did). The collapse of public investment was, therefore, a political choice.

Whats useful about the looming highway crisis is that it illustrates just how self-destructive that political choice has become. Its one thing to block green investment, or high-speed rail, or even school construction. Im for such things, but many on the right arent. But everyone from progressive think tanks to the United States Chamber of Commerce thinks we need good roads. Yet the combination of anti-tax ideology and deficit hysteria (itself mostly whipped up in an attempt to bully President Obama into spending cuts) means that were letting our highways, and our future, erode away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/04/opinion/paul-krugman-build-we-wont.html?ref=international&_r=0


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A keeper indeed. What a man!

I'm blessed the same way. Makes me fall in love more and more.



MarilynKnits said:


> He does that Friday mornings. And washes the kitchen floor. Is this a keeper or is this not a keeper? He started after he retired and I kept working the next 15 or so years. And I let him continue after I retired.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I still wanna see a pic of SQM in her wonder woman bra. Don't you? What a hoot!


I have yet to wear it. It is in the back of my drawer with the other outrageous lingerie I got for my 60th. Openings here and there.

Boo hoo. No one to wear it for.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Dear, dear, short sighted LTL. You call others a clique when FFDP comes across as the cliquiest of the clicquey? When some of you regulars on FFDP tell "intruders" into your love fest to get lost, that we are not welcome?
> 
> Or should I call you dear, dear Pot? Signed, Kettle.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Well put. Very.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why can't people wait until the Fourth of July (Independence Day), to light off their fireworks?!? I'm so tired of listening to it! We are surrounded by idiots who've spent thousands of dollars to light off what sounds like bombs! It's been incessant for weeks now. Day and night. I have no problem with it on the holiday, but this is ridiculous. They're also lighting off the great big ones like you see in a fireworks show and its not even dark yet. Idiots!


Are you saying that Nebraska is not perfect? There are idiots there? That's quite an admission. :? :? :?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She can move the knick knacks but not the furniture, especially the end tables. She has tables everywhere! Five in the living room alone! Its wall to wall furniture and knick knacks cover everything. But I am done! From here on out I'm only cleaning.
> 
> I don't think I'll be eligible for sainthood, though. I think bad thoughts while I'm doing all of the rearranging. ;-)


You're human, making you eligible.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not at all. You're looking for strength from your friends to do a good job.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I don't deserve it though. After I do my good deeds, I come on here and talk about her, behind her back. I'm a very bad person.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I have yet to wear it. It is in the back of my drawer with the other outrageous lingerie I got for my 60th. Openings here and there.
> 
> Boo hoo. No one to wear it for.


Oh! Come on! Bring it out! Share it!

I am now hiding in my closet because I'm tired of being interrupted. She's rearranging things in her mind and I'm supposed to listen to all of her ramblings. I need a chair in my closet!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She was mad, but afraid to show it.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That's a good one! I can imagine how she felt. Funny!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put.



Poor Purl said:


> May I offer a different interpretation? As long as she still has kid, grandkids, and great-grandkids, she'll get new pictures of them and will build up a collection soon enough. The ones she kept are ones that can never be replaced because the subjects are gone. If she felt that she had to get rid of some, this was a rational way to choose.
> 
> Cut her some slack (I know you've been doing that already - in fact, you've cut her a few pairs of slacks). She's going to be living alone for the first time in many, many years. She must feel insecure, and some people try to repress their insecurity by insisting on having things done their way and for them. This looks like self-centeredness but it's really self-preservation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And she wore those bras over her clothes, so we all got the point.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you saying that Nebraska is not perfect? There are idiots there? That's quite an admission. :? :? :?


Oh! Definitely idiots! I'll tell you about my neighbors later. I should be showering now. Mil has a long list of shopping. Each stop is accompanied by a 25 minute visit to the bathroom. ACH!!! Scream!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Once my mother decided to try that trick and hid under the bed. She finally just came out in a huff with dust bunnies in her hair.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


Good morning, merry sunshine. Once again putting a positive spin on things - not. But you're never nasty or insulting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting solutions to our problems. Why not? _________ Fill in the blanks.



Poor Purl said:


> *Build We Wont*
> by Paul Krugman
> 
> You often find people talking about our economic difficulties as if they were complicated and mysterious, with no obvious solution. As the economist Dean Baker recently pointed out, nothing could be further from the truth. The basic story of what went wrong is, in fact, almost absurdly simple: We had an immense housing bubble, and, when the bubble burst, it left a huge hole in spending. Everything else is footnotes.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pretend you're looking for something on the top shelf.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! Come on! Bring it out! Share it!
> 
> I am now hiding in my closet because I'm tired of being interrupted. She's rearranging things in her mind and I'm supposed to listen to all of her ramblings. I need a chair in my closet!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


Emmy Cat, right now it seems to be about anything and everything. You're welcome to join and add your own take on things.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Dear, dear, short sighted LTL. You call others a clique when FFDP comes across as the cliquiest of the clicquey? When some of you regulars on FFDP tell "intruders" into your love fest to get lost, that we are not welcome?
> 
> Or should I call you dear, dear Pot? Signed, Kettle.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just a very human one, and a very honest one. If you can't vent among non judgmental friends, where can you? I am sure many of us, me included, have had less than positive interactions with MILs. Probably made us better MILs ourselves.


My MIL and I fell in love the day we met, and I loved her that way until the day she died. My mother and I had a stormier relationship.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why wouldn't they be welcome? With using the pronouns "we" and "ours" it might appear that you all are a clique and allowing them to associate with you with permission of course.


lovethelake
if you had it in you to make friends, you would change your tune. Try to remember that we are "liberals" and that goes for everything in Life. Only Repuglicans are cliques, we are gatherers to form a Rainbow.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


Emmy Cat
try "Life".


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She can move the knick knacks but not the furniture, especially the end tables. She has tables everywhere! Five in the living room alone! Its wall to wall furniture and knick knacks cover everything. But I am done! From here on out I'm only cleaning.
> 
> I don't think I'll be eligible for sainthood, though. I think bad thoughts while I'm doing all of the rearranging. ;-)


Knitter from Nebraska 
cherish the thoughts, they are a good release from stress.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> My mother would simply stop speaking to whoever she was angry at. _That_ was earsplitting and always got our attention.


Poor Purl
I hate the silent treatment more than a shout.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> *Build We Wont*
> by Paul Krugman
> 
> You often find people talking about our economic difficulties as if they were complicated and mysterious, with no obvious solution. As the economist Dean Baker recently pointed out, nothing could be further from the truth. The basic story of what went wrong is, in fact, almost absurdly simple: We had an immense housing bubble, and, when the bubble burst, it left a huge hole in spending. Everything else is footnotes.
> ...


Paul plays second fiddle to my Robert. I wish more people would read and listen----especially our Congresspeople.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just a very human one, and a very honest one. If you can't vent among non judgmental friends, where can you? I am sure many of us, me included, have had less than positive interactions with MILs. Probably made us better MILs ourselves.


MarilynKnits
I had the best In-Laws and so were my Parents but my Mom had the worst MIL of all times. She was a real Monster, even her Kids did not like her.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> "I'm not Lisa, my name is Julie
> Lisa left you years ago
> My eyes are not blue
> But mine won't leave you
> ...


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I hate the silent treatment more than a shout.


As I grew up with shouting, I prefer to be quiet and not add fuel to any fires.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! Come on! Bring it out! Share it!
> 
> I am now hiding in my closet because I'm tired of being interrupted. She's rearranging things in her mind and I'm supposed to listen to all of her ramblings. I need a chair in my closet!


Knitter from Nebraska
I can supply a Boombox to take there with you.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! Come on! Bring it out! Share it!
> 
> I am now hiding in my closet because I'm tired of being interrupted. She's rearranging things in her mind and I'm supposed to listen to all of her ramblings. I need a chair in my closet!


You can come out of the closet now, Ma'am!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They couldn't reject what Hollywood stars were wearing.


Nope, that made the awful things even more desirable. Even Madonna wore a few in her shows.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> It's so confusing, sometimes I think me is them.


Oh no, thou could never be them. Ever ever ever.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> When we were kids the boys in the neighborhood (I never did anything so ghastly) would light off firecrackers placed in cow pies. Actually, we called them "cow platters." Light it and run!


My father told us about putting paper bags full of (rather wet) cow manure on people's front doorsteps, lighting them on fire, and ringing the doorbells. And then, hiding to watch the show--

:shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have yet to wear it. It is in the back of my drawer with the other outrageous lingerie I got for my 60th. Openings here and there.
> 
> Boo hoo. No one to wear it for.


Sheesh. All I got for my 60th was a gift card to Michael's.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You know what kind of vapors I was thinking of? Might be better with the windows open. :lol:


oh, those kind of vapors. If you put dh, dogs, and dad in the same room it would positively explode at times. Particularly if the dogs ate canned dog food.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I hate the silent treatment more than a shout.


Exactly. Once, when I was in my teens, she kept it up for a week and a half. Not for something I did but something I said.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Paul plays second fiddle to my Robert. I wish more people would read and listen----especially our Congresspeople.


Do our Congresspeople read anything any expert says? It always feels to me as though they do things on the spot, except for the Repugs, who seem to be getting invisible messages telling them what to do.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do our Congresspeople read anything any expert says? It always feels to me as though they do things on the spot, except for the Repugs, who seem to be getting invisible messages telling them what to do.


Republicans know that they need to vehemently disagree with anything a Democrat says, even if it's the date and time.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> She was mad, but afraid to show it.


Oh! I thought she was hiding to scare you guys into thinking shed left. Then you'd be good.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

???????????????


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! I thought she was hiding to scare you guys into thinking shed left. Then you'd be good.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Those are the only ones I can wear. After a mastectomy, I got an implant. This was right after chemo and I weighed about 100 lbs. So after I went back to my normal weight, the implant is way too small. I didn't want to have surgery again so I get the heavily padded bras and no one can tell. They are self supporting. :lol:


Foremost, my best wishes for your ongoing good health. My mother was a double mastectomy survivor. She was part of the trial study on tamoxifen after her second bout with cancer and lived almost 20 years after that cancer free until she was 91 and suffered Alzheimer's.

This was before implants were perfected, and my Dad, who was multitalented, made soft prostheses for her. She had lost lymph nodes, was never very fit, and just didn't have the strength to wear the heavy prostheses that were commercially available. Now there is a charity, http://knittedknockers.info/ asking for knitters to make soft cotton prostheses for breast cancer patients.

Hope you have your life back soon. You and your DH deserve a "date night" after his mother moves into her new home. I am sure your relationship with her will improve once she is settled and starts making new friends and gets busy with activities in the new place. And angels like you have a right to gripe when the going gets tough. After all, you are an angel, not a saint!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I can supply a Boombox to take there with you.


I'm seeking QUIET! No boombox! Hubby and mil went to her townhome just now. I have at least an hour to myself. Maybe he can stretch it out to two hours. YAY! I've not heard silence for nearly a month.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> You can come out of the closet now, Ma'am!!
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


I'm out!!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> ???????????????


Poor Purl
do we really want to be good to p l e a s e them? They do not understand good so we have adjusted.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Oh no, thou could never be them. Ever ever ever.


I don't know about that. We could all be them.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> My father told us about putting paper bags full of (rather wet) cow manure on people's front doorsteps, lighting them on fire, and ringing the doorbells. And then, hiding to watch the show--
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:


My Dad did that too. What else could they do for entertainment back them.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Sheesh. All I got for my 60th was a gift card to Michael's.


My hubby would get me outrageous lingerie, if I let him. But I'd rather have the gift card. :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> oh, those kind of vapors. If you put dh, dogs, and dad in the same room it would positively explode at times. Particularly if the dogs ate canned dog food.


What a pleasant thought. I don't envy you, that.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My MIL and I fell in love the day we met, and I loved her that way until the day she died. My mother and I had a stormier relationship.


My maternal grandmother had a darling MIL and they were wonderful friends. My mother, not so much. Grandma liked to "stir the pot" to have some soap opera in the family. She had three daughters and two DILs and used to carry stories back and forth. Me, my MIL turned out to be bipolar, insecure, and mean spirited. I was always respectful; she was the reason I had my sweet guy, but there was no love lost.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm seeking QUIET! No boombox! Hubby and mil went to her townhome just now. I have at least an hour to myself. Maybe he can stretch it out to two hours. YAY! I've not heard silence for nearly a month.


Knitter from Nebraska
I was thinking of putting the Boombox in the closed to make her think you are in there and then you retreat into another private space if you still have one. Greet your Hubby with a big hug and passionate kiss upon returning, that should make her think - or rattle her. Could you make something disappear while she is gone so that she be occupied to look for it? Just trying to be helpful. It is fun to play games.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Republicans know that they need to vehemently disagree with anything a Democrat says, even if it's the date and time.


And vice versa! :lol:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My Dad did that too. What else could they do for entertainment back them.


And if you lived in a small town, there wasn't that much to do. We did have fireworks shot from the iron ore dumps, though. Some nights our entertainment was to sit on the steps in front of the village hall or the Lutheran Church watching the cars go by. That's why I can name make, model, and year of the cars of the late '50's. When we sat on the cement stairs, the old police woman used to walk by and tell us that we would get piles from sitting on the cold cement. I had to go home to ask my mother what "piles" were.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And vice versa! :lol:


Yes, but we (Democrats) know know we're always right, doncha' know?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> ???????????????


I was talking about how my mother would get mad and leave us. Damemary said, "Once my mother decided to play that trick and hid under the bed. She finally just came out in a huff, with dust bunnies in her hair". I thought she meant that her mom was trying to teach them a lesson by making them think she'd left. But Damemary said she just did it because she was mad. Inanity!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do our Congresspeople read anything any expert says? It always feels to me as though they do things on the spot, except for the Repugs, who seem to be getting invisible messages telling them what to do.


I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Foremost, my best wishes for your ongoing good health. My mother was a double mastectomy survivor. She was part of the trial study on tamoxifen after her second bout with cancer and lived almost 20 years after that cancer free until she was 91 and suffered Alzheimer's.
> 
> This was before implants were perfected, and my Dad, who was multitalented, made soft prostheses for her. She had lost lymph nodes, was never very fit, and just didn't have the strength to wear the heavy prostheses that were commercially available. Now there is a charity, http://knittedknockers.info/ asking for knitters to make soft cotton prostheses for breast cancer patients.
> 
> Hope you have your life back soon. You and your DH deserve a "date night" after his mother moves into her new home. I am sure your relationship with her will improve once she is settled and starts making new friends and gets busy with activities in the new place. And angels like you have a right to gripe when the going gets tough. After all, you are an angel, not a saint!


Thanks for your best wishes. I was on Tamoxifen for five years. It made me gain a LOT of weight. After the chemo, I was skin and bones. On the Tamoxifen, I jetted right up to 180 lbs. I could barely move. But right after I got off of it, my weight went right back to normal, between 130 and 140 for me. Then I got hypothyroidism and gained weight again. But after medication, the pounds came off again. Lately, I've been losing weight and I wish I'd kept my skinny clothes.

I've been cancer free for over eleven years now. But I've had lots of scares. I had to have a lumpectomy in my other breast for precancerous cells. Then I had to have a lung biopsy because I had a nodule on my lung. I have indeterminate lesions on my spine and nodules on my thyroid. Lots and lots of medical crap! We had really good insurance at the time and had to pay very little. Not anymore! Our insurance changed to comply with the aca. I try to avoid going to the doctor now. I can't afford it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
> Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


I saw that, and enjoyed every minute of it!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for your best wishes. I was on Tamoxifen for five years. It made me gain a LOT of weight. After the chemo, I was skin and bones. On the Tamoxifen, I jetted right up to 180 lbs. I could barely move. But right after I got off of it, my weight went right back to normal, between 130 and 140 for me. Then I got hypothyroidism and gained weight again. But after medication, the pounds came off again. Lately, I've been losing weight and I wish I'd kept my skinny clothes.
> 
> I've been cancer free for over eleven years now. But I've had lots of scares. I had to have a lumpectomy in my other breast for precancerous cells. Then I had to have a lung biopsy because I had a nodule on my lung. I have indeterminate lesions on my spine and nodules on my thyroid. Lots and lots of medical crap! We had really good insurance at the time and had to pay very little. Not anymore! Our insurance changed to comply with the aca. I try to avoid going to the doctor now. I can't afford it.


I've been cancer-free for almost 22 years. I'm not as fearful as I was the first few years after diagnosis, but living with the fact that it can recur at anytime is a bit sobering. For quite awhile I went to the oncologist every year, but I'm not doing that anymore. I do have breast MRI's once a year because I am BRCA2 positive. I don't dwell on cancer, but new aches and pains sometimes make me wonder what's going on. It seems that they don't find it 'till you're half dead. Right now I have a friend who has CLL and she is miserable and open to catching any infection. She stays home a lot.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Don't twist what I was saying and put words in my mouth. thank you. They are the ones who keep their own opinions and beliefs but are willing to stop attacking and have a conversation. I applaud them. We all gain by that.
> 
> I am aware that that is not your agenda. No need to reply - I know exactly where you are coming from. We (and you) know there is nothing more cliquish than D and P where we have been told we are not welcome to your little group nor are we to be answered or treated with respect. A clique doesn't want or allow outsiders to join in - look to D and P for the perfect example of a clique.


No you do not know where I am coming from. I don't tell anyone to stay away from Denim and Pearls, never would even dream of it. Denim and Pearls was started as a place to chit chat, have fun and not be confrontational. That has always been known from the beginning of the thread's creation. Maybe you or your collective you did not want to behave that way on that thread, and some may have thought you (or the other you) just were there to cause trouble. Don't know, was not a part of that conversation. Seems to me that you are jealous of the friendships over there. How sad for you to feel that way. If you read the posts no one puts anyone down, are not snarky, don't name call, don't use foul language or acronyms.......Try it, you make like to act that way


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My maternal grandmother had a darling MIL and they were wonderful friends. My mother, not so much. Grandma liked to "stir the pot" to have some soap opera in the family. She had three daughters and two DILs and used to carry stories back and forth. Me, my MIL turned out to be bipolar, insecure, and mean spirited. I was always respectful; she was the reason I had my sweet guy, but there was no love lost.


My mil is very self centered. This brings to mind her gift giving. One year she asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I said, some blue jeans. I lived in jeans and all of mine had holes in the knees from playing on the floor with my kids. We were poor and couldn't afford jeans. I was so looking forward to a new pair. What she got me instead was a hot pink, double knit pantsuit with a matching blouse that tied at the neck! SHE loved it! ME, not so much! I was forced to wear that over to their house on Christmas Day. And she took pictures which will live on in infamy.

After that, she decided I should collect owls. For every occasion after that, she gave me owls! Owl pictures, owl figurines, owl hand towels, owl statues, owl canisters, owl necklaces, owl earrings...you get the picture. I'd try to be nice and put out the owls when she gave them to me. But after she left, they went into the basement. She even asked me about them once and I said that they didn't really go with my decor. That didn't stop her! I got owls for about 10 years. Then I told my husband to talk with her and tell her, NO MORE OWLS! Too late! She'd already ordered a custom made 2' tall ceramic owl. The gifts went downhill from there.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I was thinking of putting the Boombox in the closed to make her think you are in there and then you retreat into another private space if you still have one. Greet your Hubby with a big hug and passionate kiss upon returning, that should make her think - or rattle her. Could you make something disappear while she is gone so that she be occupied to look for it? Just trying to be helpful. It is fun to play games.


Oh! If I hid something, she'd just make me find it. She's always been helpless! The passionate kiss? I don't think that'd work. I'm sure she's forgotten what sex is. They'd had separate bedrooms for as long as I've known them. Wednesday night, hubby said he was taking me out to dinner. She wanted to stay at her townhome. After dinner, we went home and had the whole place to ourselves! Just as soon as Amazon ships the bars for her toilet, she's out of here! It can't be too soon for me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And if you lived in a small town, there wasn't that much to do. We did have fireworks shot from the iron ore dumps, though. Some nights our entertainment was to sit on the steps in front of the village hall or the Lutheran Church watching the cars go by. That's why I can name make, model, and year of the cars of the late '50's. When we sat on the cement stairs, the old police woman used to walk by and tell us that we would get piles from sitting on the cold cement. I had to go home to ask my mother what "piles" were.


Ahahahahaha! Piles!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Yes, but we (Democrats) know know we're always right, doncha' know?


That's what I figured! :roll:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
> Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


I thought shed disappeared!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I've been cancer-free for almost 22 years. I'm not as fearful as I was the first few years after diagnosis, but living with the fact that it can recur at anytime is a bit sobering. For quite awhile I went to the oncologist every year, but I'm not doing that anymore. I do have breast MRI's once a year because I am BRCA2 positive. I don't dwell on cancer, but new aches and pains sometimes make me wonder what's going on. It seems that they don't find it 'till you're half dead. Right now I have a friend who has CLL and she is miserable and open to catching any infection. She stays home a lot.


I didn't get tested for BRCA. They said my family history didn't warrant it because I only had one second degree family member with breast cancer. However, both my mother and father only had one brother each. On my mothers side a great aunt and great grandmother had BC. And on my father's side, my grandmother. Also, they're now linking BRCA with prostate cancer. Both my father and his brother had that. I think now, you can request the test but we have crappy insurance and I can't afford to.

What is CCL?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't get tested for BRCA. They said my family history didn't warrant it because I only had one second degree family member with breast cancer. However, both my mother and father only had one brother each. On my mothers side a great aunt and great grandmother had BC. And on my father's side, my grandmother. Also, they're now linking BRCA with prostate cancer. Both my father and his brother had that. I think now, you can request the test but we have crappy insurance and I can't afford to.
> 
> What is CCL?


Chronic Lymphocitic Leukemia. It's one of the "better" types that can morph into other types. Many people live a long time with it, but for others it progresses rapidly and needs to be treated. My friend has very poor neutrophil counts which is consistent with an impaired immune system. She nearly died last fall from pneumonia and spent almost 2 months in the hospital. She Nd her docs are currently deciding whether and which treatment she should try.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> No you do not know where I am coming from. I don't tell anyone to stay away from Denim and Pearls, never would even dream of it. Denim and Pearls was started as a place to chit chat, have fun and not be confrontational. That has always been known from the beginning of the thread's creation. Maybe you or your collective you did not want to behave that way on that thread, and some may have thought you (or the other you) just were there to cause trouble. Don't know, was not a part of that conversation. Seems to me that you are jealous of the friendships over there. How sad for you to feel that way. If you read the posts no one puts anyone down, are not snarky, don't name call, don't use foul language or acronyms.......Try it, you make like to act that way


You are so defensive. Enjoy your friendships. But there have been rude and exclusionary remarks made to people with a liberal viewpoint who have "invaded" FFDP.

We whose political beliefs vary from moderate to liberal certainly have developed enough friendships with compatible people that we don't seek the company of those who disparage us, try to demean us, and are stupid enough to say nasty things about Shirley, who is one of the nicest people I have ever met on line.

Of course there are exceptions to every circumstance. There are some lovely, pleasant people whose political perspective is far to the right of mine and whose religious beliefs are very different from mine with whom there have been some pleasant interchanges. These people have explained themselves, and the more liberal minded have explained ourselves as well, all being more than civil. We have come to respect one another and share thoughts exclusive of politics and religion where we can enjoy friendship.

We have all come to the conclusion that our hopes and dreams are compatible, but our ideas of how to achieve them vary. Maybe if you tried being nice you would receive niceness in return. Meanwhile enjoy your little social ghetto and don't let your ideas be challenged by thoughtful discourse. You may, heaven forefend, find many of us further to your left to not be devils incarnate.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> No you do not know where I am coming from. I don't tell anyone to stay away from Denim and Pearls, never would even dream of it. Denim and Pearls was started as a place to chit chat, have fun and not be confrontational. That has always been known from the beginning of the thread's creation. Maybe you or your collective you did not want to behave that way on that thread, and some may have thought you (or the other you) just were there to cause trouble. Don't know, was not a part of that conversation. Seems to me that you are jealous of the friendships over there. How sad for you to feel that way. If you read the posts no one puts anyone down, are not snarky, don't name call, don't use foul language or acronyms.......Try it, you make like to act that way


lovethelake 
so why are you venturing over here? Can't make trouble there and therefore stir the pot here? Go fly a Kite to D&P Heaven.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes, but we (Democrats) know know we're always right, doncha' know?


 :shock:    yup!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My mil is very self centered. This brings to mind her gift giving. One year she asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I said, some blue jeans. I lived in jeans and all of mine had holes in the knees from playing on the floor with my kids. We were poor and couldn't afford jeans. I was so looking forward to a new pair. What she got me instead was a hot pink, double knit pantsuit with a matching blouse that tied at the neck! SHE loved it! ME, not so much! I was forced to wear that over to their house on Christmas Day. And she took pictures which will live on in infamy.
> 
> After that, she decided I should collect owls. For every occasion after that, she gave me owls! Owl pictures, owl figurines, owl hand towels, owl statues, owl canisters, owl necklaces, owl earrings...you get the picture. I'd try to be nice and put out the owls when she gave them to me. But after she left, they went into the basement. She even asked me about them once and I said that they didn't really go with my decor. That didn't stop her! I got owls for about 10 years. Then I told my husband to talk with her and tell her, NO MORE OWLS! Too late! She'd already ordered a custom made 2' tall ceramic owl. The gifts went downhill from there.


I had a terrible MIL who did nothing but cause problems for us, mainly because - no girl will ever be good enough for my Bobby (Pat's name is Robert). She tried to break us up for years and Pat would just stop going there (I stopped before he did) and then she would call him in tears. He felt an obligation to her. they were very poor when he was a child and he said to me - you know, she scrubbed floors so I could have a bike' She was utterly happy when she had him to herself.

Pat and I had a long talk about it - he was going to just drop her. She had antagonized his brother who wouldn't talk to her. He felt that he was the only one who could deal with her. He went to see her once a week every Saturday morning for an hour. If she said anything against me he left and missed the next Saturday. She finally realized that she would have to leave me alone if she wanted to see him. When she had a stroke he phoned me from work and told me she was in the hospital. I went right down and when I walked the the room she grabbed my hand and said 'I missed you, I knew you would come! She tried much harder after that and we were glad we had put in the time to try. Difficult lady though! She really made our lives miserable but didn't want to lose him and when he stood up to her she backed off.

The thing that made all the difference to me was that he would not accept her treatment of me and never insisted I see her. He would take the kids down sometimes but she really only wanted to see him. She had had a dreadful upbringing i Northern Ireland, one of 11 children. At age l9 the Salvation army (she was a soldier with them) paid her way to Nova Scotia where she worked for a farmer and his wife who treated her terribly (she said). and then she got on a train and ended up in Saskatchewan where she met his Dad. Sad person.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Camacho
> I hear you, the Girls are no big deal with me but since they are there I do not like them to look like the backside cheeks. Will never understand anyone going for implants, reduction I can see but adding poundage? yikes.


Oh, yeah, those big round things that look like a hard bowl with a pillow inside are awful. I don't begin to fill those things up and feel ridiculous in the fitting room.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> so why are you venturing over here? Can't make trouble there and therefore stir the pot here? Go fly a Kite to D&P Heaven.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: I'm with you Huck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the illustration of dealing with a difficult MIL. Love and understanding. Easy to say. Hard to do consistently. Bravo.



Designer1234 said:


> I had a terrible MIL who did nothing but cause problems for us, mainly because - no girl will ever be good enough for my Bobby (Pat's name is Robert). She tried to break us up for years and Pat would just stop going there (I stopped before he did) and then she would call him in tears. He felt an obligation to her. they were very poor when he was a child and he said to me - you know, she scrubbed floors so I could have a bike' She was utterly happy when she had him to herself.
> 
> Pat and I had a long talk about it - he was going to just drop her. She had antagonized his brother who wouldn't talk to her. He felt that he was the only one who could deal with her. He went to see her once a week every Saturday morning for an hour. If she said anything against me he left and missed the next Saturday. She finally realized that she would have to leave me alone if she wanted to see him. When she had a stroke he phoned me from work and told me she was in the hospital. I went right down and when I walked the the room she grabbed my hand and said 'I missed you, I knew you would come! She tried much harder after that and we were glad we had put in the time to try. Difficult lady though! She really made our lives miserable but didn't want to lose him and when he stood up to her she backed off.
> 
> The thing that made all the difference to me was that he would not accept her treatment of me and never insisted I see her. He would take the kids down sometimes but she really only wanted to see him. She had had a dreadful upbringing i Northern Ireland, one of 11 children. At age l9 the Salvation army (she was a soldier with them) paid her way to Nova Scotia where she worked for a farmer and his wife who treated her terribly (she said). and then she got on a train and ended up in Saskatchewan where she met his Dad. Sad person.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Actually, I think you're right about my Mom on both counts. She his to teach us a lesson....and she was mad it didn't work. Poor Mom. We were close when we grew up and had kids of our own. Isn't that always the way?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I was talking about how my mother would get mad and leave us. Damemary said, "Once my mother decided to play that trick and hid under the bed. She finally just came out in a huff, with dust bunnies in her hair". I thought she meant that her mom was trying to teach them a lesson by making them think she'd left. But Damemary said she just did it because she was mad. Inanity!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's crazy enough to do anything. I don't think a majority of the voters are that crazy. At least I hope not.



BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
> Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My mil is very self centered. This brings to mind her gift giving. One year she asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I said, some blue jeans. I lived in jeans and all of mine had holes in the knees from playing on the floor with my kids. We were poor and couldn't afford jeans. I was so looking forward to a new pair. What she got me instead was a hot pink, double knit pantsuit with a matching blouse that tied at the neck! SHE loved it! ME, not so much! I was forced to wear that over to their house on Christmas Day. And she took pictures which will live on in infamy.
> 
> After that, she decided I should collect owls. For every occasion after that, she gave me owls! Owl pictures, owl figurines, owl hand towels, owl statues, owl canisters, owl necklaces, owl earrings...you get the picture. I'd try to be nice and put out the owls when she gave them to me. But after she left, they went into the basement. She even asked me about them once and I said that they didn't really go with my decor. That didn't stop her! I got owls for about 10 years. Then I told my husband to talk with her and tell her, NO MORE OWLS! Too late! She'd already ordered a custom made 2' tall ceramic owl. The gifts went downhill from there.


Did you say the gifts went downhill from there? OMG. That's a fright.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We were just relieved at the time. I'm one of those people who can ignore the silent treatment.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! I thought she was hiding to scare you guys into thinking shed left. Then you'd be good.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Exactly. I always heard, 'Be nice.' 'Be a little lady.' It just made me want to be BAD. Fortunately I figured it out before I hurt all of us.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> do we really want to be good to p l e a s e them? They do not understand good so we have adjusted.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand. My Mom and I were very different people, but came to understand each other as we both grew up. First MIL acted as though she wanted to help. When her son & I divorced, she had little to do with her two GK. Then I got lucky and married my DH. His Mom was lovely and we got along famously....His Dad & I had the same sense of humor and loved to garden. Just rewards, I think.



Poor Purl said:


> My MIL and I fell in love the day we met, and I loved her that way until the day she died. My mother and I had a stormier relationship.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thanks for the illustration of dealing with a difficult MIL. Love and understanding. Easy to say. Hard to do consistently. Bravo.


He did a better job than I did, but he had seen her before she was a bitter widow, and when she did scrub floors to get him a bike , as well as basics. She was very courageous in her own way. She was just bitter and difficult and sometimes I think with good reason from some of the things she told me once she backed off after her stroke.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like it.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I hate the silent treatment more than a shout.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I carefully pick my battles.



maysmom said:


> As I grew up with shouting, I prefer to be quiet and not add fuel to any fires.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> A discussion on the pointy bras from the 50s. I mentioned that I have one.


That is one conversation that is going on here. Another one is about dealing with Knitter from Nebraska's mother-in-law. Another conversation is about other people's health woes and testing. If we can excuse a knitting metaphor, reading this thread is like double or triple knitting, at least. I know there are some other conversations going on here, but as I have just returned from a weekend on the other coast, I am a little out of the swing myself. But I have also seen that this looks as though it is going to go to "War on Women #13" which I think is really neat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the compliment.



maysmom said:


> Oh no, thou could never be them. Ever ever ever.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> do we really want to be good to p l e a s e them? They do not understand good so we have adjusted.


Oh, dear, Huck. I don't understand this message, either. I'm not feeling well today; maybe that's why my brain is asleep.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> My maternal grandmother had a darling MIL and they were wonderful friends. My mother, not so much. Grandma liked to "stir the pot" to have some soap opera in the family. She had three daughters and two DILs and used to carry stories back and forth. Me, my MIL turned out to be bipolar, insecure, and mean spirited. I was always respectful; she was the reason I had my sweet guy, but there was no love lost.


I'm surprised he turned out sweet. His life at home must have been awful.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Changed my mind .


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
> Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


I think she's crazy enough for anything. I saw the clip of Neil Cavuto with her; she kept trying to talk over him, probably to drown out his pointing out how nuts she is.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> No you do not know where I am coming from. I don't tell anyone to stay away from Denim and Pearls, never would even dream of it. Denim and Pearls was started as a place to chit chat, have fun and not be confrontational. That has always been known from the beginning of the thread's creation. Maybe you or your collective you did not want to behave that way on that thread, and some may have thought you (or the other you) just were there to cause trouble. Don't know, was not a part of that conversation. Seems to me that you are jealous of the friendships over there. How sad for you to feel that way. If you read the posts no one puts anyone down, are not snarky, don't name call, don't use foul language or acronyms.......Try it, you make like to act that way


SQM and I did try it -- but personally, I won't again. The thread has never been changed so it is all there.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Camacho said:


> That is one conversation that is going on here. Another one is about dealing with Knitter from Nebraska's mother-in-law. Another conversation is about other people's health woes and testing. If we can excuse a knitting metaphor, reading this thread is like double or triple knitting, at least. I know there are some other conversations going on here, but as I have just returned from a weekend on the other coast, I am a little out of the swing myself. But I have also seen that this looks as though it is going to go to "War on Women #13" which I think is really neat.


That is what I like so much about this group-- including those from the right who join us in friendship. You have every kind of conversation imaginable and we share our history, ideas, politics and have made friends here.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It amazes me how many people on these threads have dealt with Cancer over the years. I wonder why with all the money raised to deal and discover how to stop breast cancer, that no cure has been found. 

DH wonders whether it is a political reason and that with all the cancer treatments etc. that they make millions of dollars. I am a bit more trusting but anyway, I am thankful you who have had to deal with this terrible disease are still with us and that you are still okay. 

I have been so fortunate to avoid it. Many of my friends are survivors a couple didn't. 

My Dad and Son died of esophagael cancer (both heavy smokers} . Which reminds me has anyone heard from Susan about her brother Tom? I haven't seen her posting for some time. I think I will try to pm her.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I understand. My Mom and I were very different people, but came to understand each other as we both grew up. First MIL acted as though she wanted to help. When her son & I divorced, she had little to do with her two GK. Then I got lucky and married my DH. His Mom was lovely and we got along famously....His Dad & I had the same sense of humor and loved to garden. Just rewards, I think.


Actually, I think I was more like my mother than my two siblings were; both of us were strong-willed, which meant neither of us would give in to the other. My mother saw this as disrespect, I saw it as necessary.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> That is one conversation that is going on here. Another one is about dealing with Knitter from Nebraska's mother-in-law. Another conversation is about other people's health woes and testing. If we can excuse a knitting metaphor, reading this thread is like double or triple knitting, at least. I know there are some other conversations going on here, but as I have just returned from a weekend on the other coast, I am a little out of the swing myself. But I have also seen that this looks as though it is going to go to "War on Women #13" which I think is really neat.


I think you managed to cover almost everything recent. I hope you had a good trip to the left coast.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I understand. My Mom and I were very different people, but came to understand each other as we both grew up. First MIL acted as though she wanted to help. When her son & I divorced, she had little to do with her two GK. Then I got lucky and married my DH. His Mom was lovely and we got along famously....His Dad & I had the same sense of humor and loved to garden. Just rewards, I think.


Dame - I am glad you have such a good relationship with your Husbands parents. I always wished I had. However, I do have a good relationship with my Son's wife and they asked us to go out to the Island which warmed my heart. I did learn a lot of things NOT to do!.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I understand. My Mom and I were very different people, but came to understand each other as we both grew up. First MIL acted as though she wanted to help. When her son & I divorced, she had little to do with her two GK. Then I got lucky and married my DH. His Mom was lovely and we got along famously....His Dad & I had the same sense of humor and loved to garden. Just rewards, I think.


damemary
so happy to hear that your Life is a happy one surrounded by nice individuals, you deserve it.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> My MIL and I fell in love the day we met, and I loved her that way until the day she died. My mother and I had a stormier relationship.


The day I met DH's parents was before he was my "boyfriend" but he was my best friend. Go figure. Anyway, we ran into each other walking across campus when his parents were visiting, and they all invited me to join them for a meal - dinner? I don't recall. At that meal I got the impression that his mom was a "Mom's apple pie" type mom and his dad was the sort of daddy I would choose for myself if I could choose one, so after dinner I asked David how he would like a kid sister. His mom told me years later after she had become my mil that she could see from the look in his eyes when he had first introduced us that I was going to turn into her daughter-in-law. She is now 94 years old with round-the-clock care in her own home and otherwise going strong. When my FIL died everyone said that I was closer to him than anyone who had been physically present, so that was a good relationship, too.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, dear, Huck. I don't understand this message, either. I'm not feeling well today; maybe that's why my brain is asleep.


Poor Purl
"..do we really want to be good the p l e a s e them" was in response to yours (????????) to Knitter from Nebraska's posting (last sentence) on Page 105. Sorry I did not make myself too clear. I hope this helps, if not, drink a glass of ebblewoi.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Camacho said:


> The day I met DH's parents was before he was my "boyfriend" but he was my best friend. Go figure. Anyway, we ran into each other walking across campus when his parents were visiting, and they all invited me to join them for a meal - dinner? I don't recall. At that meal I got the impression that his mom was a "Mom's apple pie" type mom and his dad was the sort of daddy I would choose for myself if I could choose one, so after dinner I asked David how he would like a kid sister. His mom told me years later after she had become my mil that she could see from the look in his eyes when he had first introduced us that I was going to turn into her daughter-in-law. She is now 94 years old with round-the-clock care in her own home and otherwise going strong. When my FIL died everyone said that I was closer to him than anyone who had been physically present, so that was a good relationship, too.


Congratulations. You were very lucky, and you appreciated them.

We have to do the best we can and I am glad things went so well for you with your in laws. It happens often, it just wasn't in the books for me but i have a good relationship with my dil. So that makes up for it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> so happy to hear that your Life is a happy one surrounded by nice individuals, you deserve it.


Dame is a special person so I am glad too.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think you managed to cover almost everything recent. I hope you had a good trip to the left coast.


I had a delightful trip to Seattle. The TSA people were great, the airline people were great, the people at the hotel fell all over themselves to be nice to me, the meeting I had gone out for was wonderful, and my husband and son met me at the airport on my return, and we had dinner at Whole Foods Market, getting all the foods I missed while eating hotel restaurant fare. There were only a few not-so-good parts of the whole experience, which I am sure will not be repeated. Two of them seemed to have to do with a lack of proper equipment, and the third had to do with my stupidity in eating a salad that was full of raw onions, just because I happen to like salad. Details on private request unless a whole lot of people ask for the same story.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like the crazy, all over the place discussion. We all get confused at times, but isn't that how we talk in real life? I know I do.



Designer1234 said:


> That is what I like so much about this group-- including those from the right who join us in friendship. You have every kind of conversation imaginable and we share our history, ideas, politics and have made friends here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I heard from Susan not long ago and her brother is hanging on, but the journey is ending for him, last I heard. Let us know what you hear.



Designer1234 said:


> It amazes me how many people on these threads have dealt with Cancer over the years. I wonder why with all the money raised to deal and discover how to stop breast cancer, that no cure has been found.
> 
> DH wonders whether it is a political reason and that with all the cancer treatments etc. that they make millions of dollars. I am a bit more trusting but anyway, I am thankful you who have had to deal with this terrible disease are still with us and that you are still okay.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Actually, I think I was more like my mother than my two siblings were; both of us were strong-willed, which meant neither of us would give in to the other. My mother saw this as disrespect, I saw it as necessary.


You were right, as you know.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good for you. Unfortunately my husband and I have both lost all our parents, all aunts & uncles, my husband's brother and lots of cousins. Families are shrinking.



Designer1234 said:


> Dame - I am glad you have such a good relationship with your Husbands parents. I always wished I had. However, I do have a good relationship with my Son's wife and they asked us to go out to the Island which warmed my heart. I did learn a lot of things NOT to do!.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Huck. We had them for 10 years after we married, but they are gone, as are both my parents. Enjoy while you can.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> so happy to hear that your Life is a happy one surrounded by nice individuals, you deserve it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good fortune for you. They sound like lovely people.



Camacho said:


> The day I met DH's parents was before he was my "boyfriend" but he was my best friend. Go figure. Anyway, we ran into each other walking across campus when his parents were visiting, and they all invited me to join them for a meal - dinner? I don't recall. At that meal I got the impression that his mom was a "Mom's apple pie" type mom and his dad was the sort of daddy I would choose for myself if I could choose one, so after dinner I asked David how he would like a kid sister. His mom told me years later after she had become my mil that she could see from the look in his eyes when he had first introduced us that I was going to turn into her daughter-in-law. She is now 94 years old with round-the-clock care in her own home and otherwise going strong. When my FIL died everyone said that I was closer to him than anyone who had been physically present, so that was a good relationship, too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you so much.



Designer1234 said:


> Dame is a special person so I am glad too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:



> I'm surprised he turned out sweet. His life at home must have been awful.


He had wonderful grandparents living near enough that he went to their store after school to "help out". He was loved and treated well. They set the pattern for the kind of marriage he wanted. As soon as he got old enough, he got on his bike and explored lower Westchester, took the ferry to Alpine and rode in the country, and just stayed away from his mother's tantrums. She was very bright and was not allowed to go to college, but had to work because they were poor. By the time her younger sister came along, younger sis did go to college. That was a life altering frustration. And as dear as Pop was, he was not a big earner. Mom's friends married doctors and other professionals, so there was another frustration. Instead of counting her blessings (living parents, a faithful and kind husband, healthy children, a nice house among others) she could only focus on what she didn't have. She just didn't get the idea of valuing what you have.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Camacho said:


> The day I met DH's parents was before he was my "boyfriend" but he was my best friend. Go figure. Anyway, we ran into each other walking across campus when his parents were visiting, and they all invited me to join them for a meal - dinner? I don't recall. At that meal I got the impression that his mom was a "Mom's apple pie" type mom and his dad was the sort of daddy I would choose for myself if I could choose one, so after dinner I asked David how he would like a kid sister. His mom told me years later after she had become my mil that she could see from the look in his eyes when he had first introduced us that I was going to turn into her daughter-in-law. She is now 94 years old with round-the-clock care in her own home and otherwise going strong. When my FIL died everyone said that I was closer to him than anyone who had been physically present, so that was a good relationship, too.


Camacho
lovely memories, thank you for sharing. I knew my In-Laws before I met their Son, wonderful people. An invitation to Thanksgiving Dinner after their Son and I worked together started a special Friendship and eventually a fabulous Partnership. Could not have been chosen by finer people to become part of their Family. Wish everyone could have such a wonderful experience.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> The day I met DH's parents was before he was my "boyfriend" but he was my best friend. Go figure. Anyway, we ran into each other walking across campus when his parents were visiting, and they all invited me to join them for a meal - dinner? I don't recall. At that meal I got the impression that his mom was a "Mom's apple pie" type mom and his dad was the sort of daddy I would choose for myself if I could choose one, so after dinner I asked David how he would like a kid sister. His mom told me years later after she had become my mil that she could see from the look in his eyes when he had first introduced us that I was going to turn into her daughter-in-law. She is now 94 years old with round-the-clock care in her own home and otherwise going strong. When my FIL died everyone said that I was closer to him than anyone who had been physically present, so that was a good relationship, too.


What a sweet story. And if mil is still going strong at 94, you are all very lucky.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> "..do we really want to be good the p l e a s e them" was in response to yours (????????) to Knitter from Nebraska's posting (last sentence) on Page 105. Sorry I did not make myself too clear. I hope this helps, if not, drink a glass of ebblewoi.


I think I finally put it together, with your help and Nebraska's. But now I have another question - two questions: what on earth is ebblewoi and where can I get some?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> You were right, as you know.


Thanks for backing me up.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think I finally put it together, with your help and Nebraska's. But now I have another question - two questions: what on earth is ebblewoi and where can I get some?


Poor Purl
I learned it as a yiddish dialect for Apple Wine.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I carefully pick my battles.


That is what I should try to do more often. I usually react , think about it a bit and either accept it or not accept things. If I don't accept I can over react sometimes.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes, but we (Democrats) know know we're always right, doncha' know?


Well, both sets of my grandparents and Mom and Dad always told us that Democrats would do more for the poor than Republicans would. My father's parents were a carpenter and a laundress, my mother's mom was a widow who did housecleaning (no Social Security back then) they worked hard and barely got by, and never changed affiliations.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think she's crazy enough for anything. I saw the clip of Neil Cavuto with her; she kept trying to talk over him, probably to drown out his pointing out how nuts she is.


I say put her in a room with Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter. Turn on the cameras, and let the inanity begin!


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Camacho
> lovely memories, thank you for sharing. I knew my In-Laws before I met their Son, wonderful people. An invitation to Thanksgiving Dinner after their Son and I worked together started a special Friendship and eventually a fabulous Partnership. Could not have been chosen by finer people to become part of their Family. Wish everyone could have such a wonderful experience.


I wish that for everyone, too.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a sweet story. And if mil is still going strong at 94, you are all very lucky.


Thank you. Soon after my granddaughter was born, my daughter and son-in-law drove out to introduce the baby to her great-grandmother. DD posted on Facebook that there were 25 hours of driving each way for six hours of time with her grandma, and it was worth every minute. The photos she posted are very touching. Mom was obviously one happy woman to live to see and hold a great-grandchild. Elizabeth is her first one.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I learned it as a yiddish dialect for Apple Wine.


Aah, okay. Ebble is fine for apple, though it's usually spelled "epel," but as far as I can determine, wine always has an n at the end: "vein" - pronounce "vine" - or, less often, "vaan" - pronounced like a cross between the German von and the English Vaughan.

But, Huck, you still haven't told me where I can get some. Plenty of wine sold around her, but none made from apples. Could that really be the Yiddish for cider?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I say put her in a room with Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter. Turn on the cameras, and let the inanity begin!


Should we cover the furniture first?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Thank you. Soon after my granddaughter was born, my daughter and son-in-law drove out to introduce the baby to her great-grandmother. DD posted on Facebook that there were 25 hours of driving each way for six hours of time with her grandma, and it was worth every minute. The photos she posted are very touching. Mom was obviously one happy woman to live to see and hold a great-grandchild. Elizabeth is her first one.


She was obviously a very special grandmother, if your daughter wanted to do a 25-hour drive each way to be with her. Not to mention your son-in-law, who hadn't known her as a child.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Aah, okay. Ebbel is fine for apple, though it's usually spelled "epel," but as far as I can determine, wine always has an n at the end: "vein" - pronounce "vine" - or, less often, "vaan" - pronounced like a cross between the German von and the English Vaughan.
> 
> But, Huck, you still haven't told me where I can get some. Plenty of wine sold around her, but none made from apples. Could that really be the Yiddish for cider?


Poor Purl
We have some specialty cheese shops who carry many fruit wines from different parts of the country. It is the dialect that turns epelvein into ebbelwoi. Apple Wine is made from Cider. Some fruit wines are made from a mixture of fruits.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> We have some specialty cheese shops who carry many fruit wines from different parts of the country. It is the dialect that turns epelvein into ebbelwoi. Apple Wine is made from Cider. Some fruit wines are made from a mixture of fruits.


Huck, I feel as though I've just sat through a long class - and I like school. Do you know what dialect this word is in? I'm familiar with 4 (my parents were from different parts of eastern Europe; then there's the accepted standard one and the German one), but I'm sure there are others. Still, I've never seen/heard one where the last letter of vein would disappear.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Apfelwein is German for apple wine


And edelweiss is German for _Leontopodium alpinum._


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, I feel as though I've just sat through a long class - and I like school. Do you know what dialect this word is in? I'm familiar with 4 (my parents were from different parts of eastern Europe; then there's the accepted standard one and the German one), but I'm sure there are others. Still, I've never seen/heard one where the last letter of vein would disappear.


Poor Purl
this version came from some people who lived in the German part of Russia and had southern und northern German ancestors. Now we need to figure out in which part of the world it originated - perhaps not. I like the sound of ebbelwoi, it sounds soft just like the flavor of the decribed libation. Yiddish seems to be a casserole of languages.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Apfelwein is German for apple wine


joeysomma
did you ever taste any? It is delicious, more like an Aperitif than a straight Wine and Berry Wines are full bodied and dessert like to me as well. I have thickened them with Gelatin and served them with whipped cream, hmmm.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And edelweiss is German for _Leontopodium alpinum._


Poor Purl
Edelweiss is the softest flower I ever touched and lives in the roughest climate.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very special story. Thanks for sharing.



Camacho said:


> Thank you. Soon after my granddaughter was born, my daughter and son-in-law drove out to introduce the baby to her great-grandmother. DD posted on Facebook that there were 25 hours of driving each way for six hours of time with her grandma, and it was worth every minute. The photos she posted are very touching. Mom was obviously one happy woman to live to see and hold a great-grandchild. Elizabeth is her first one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just spray for cooties.



Poor Purl said:


> Should we cover the furniture first?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And edelweiss is German for _Leontopodium alpinum._


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Should we cover the furniture first?


Take everything out and waterproof the room so it can get hosed down as necessary.

:twisted: :twisted:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder who is coaching Michele Bachmann. On Fox News the other day she was asked a question by Mr. Cavuto. Her answer was so inane that he pretty much told her to be quiet and that she was nuts. I am glad the Repugs are starting to realize that. But alas, it is too late. Minnesota's own Macadamia will not run again. (I'm counting the days until she is gone.) One less crazy Tea Partier to put up with.
> Do you think she is crazy enough to run again for POTUS?


The question is, how many would be crazy enough to vote for her?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah. That is the question.



maysmom said:


> The question is, how many would be crazy enough to vote for her?
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> The question is, how many would be crazy enough to vote for her?
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


maysmom
enough to fill an Asylum.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But hopefully NOT enough to win an election. (I hate to even admit a possibility. )



Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> enough to fill an Asylum.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Major Newspapers Reject Pro-Life Ad, Image of Baby Too Controversial
> 
> by Caleb Parke | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/5/13 11:41 AM
> 
> ...


Joey, I think you are very intelligent and I applaud you for your voracious stance against abortion. However, your persistence in publishing these articles (which provokes such negative feedback) makes me wonder whether you are practicing a designed campaign (not too dissimilar) to Amway, to procure more followers?

Why else would you do this? It doesn't make sense. You have behaved this way on this thread countless times and ALWAYS you receive the same negative responses. And those responses have never swayed you. You can't be that black and white surely? Why are you so intent on beating a dead horse?

I know you started this thread and that was your prerogative but it's turned into a bitter slinging match which, if I am wrong please let me know, seems to feed your soul! You have plat-formed yourself as a deeply religious person and yet you are allowing your perceived 'sinners' on this thread to "feed your soul." That's how I see it anyway.

I think what you're doing is embarrassing for you, however, if that "feeds your soul" who am I to argue?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If my pro-life postings bother you, don't read them. I will continue as long as someone is replying on this thread. I will quit posting when there is no one left on this thread but pro- life people.
> 
> You definitely cannot say a 20 - 24 week old fetus is a blob of cells and is not a baby.


Joey, Joey, none of us read them. It is a wasted effort but your choice. I am pro choice - so that a woman can make her own decision.

I would never have chosen an abortion. But I believe that a woman should be treated like an adult and that no one else should be able to decide for her what she does as it is her body, not the Government's and not the Republican Party, or any Church, or any person whose business it isn't..


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If my pro-life postings bother you, don't read them. I will continue as long as someone is replying on this thread. I will quit posting when there is no one left on this thread but pro- life people.
> 
> You definitely cannot say a 20 - 24 week old fetus is a blob of cells and is not a baby.


I read them, Joey. This is what a 23-week-old fetus looks like. It's beyond me that anyone can say that aborting this baby should be legal. This is the evil that we're against and the evil that the left continues to claim is their right to 'choose'.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you read this one or at least noticed it to make a comment. As I said at the beginning of this thread, if this changes the mind of one person and she decides to give her baby life, it will all be worth it.


Oh -- I definitely read the posts. I just don't read your hundreds of links and quotes. My belief in the right to choose also carries on to what we post - We are each responsible for what we post and what we read and what we say to others.

Anyway, time to go make dinner. We are in the West so it is earlier than most people on the thread.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She was obviously a very special grandmother, if your daughter wanted to do a 25-hour drive each way to be with her. Not to mention your son-in-law, who hadn't known her as a child.


My son-in-law met my in-laws around Passover 2007, when they paid his airfare as well as my daughter's to fly out to Detroit to be with them for the holiday celebration. At that time SIL-to-be first saw my brother-in-law's shop and they wished they were nearer so SIL could work in BIL's jewelry shop. Matt made the wedding ring he gave my daughter, and Richard made the wedding ring as a gift for his niece to give her bridegroom. My father-in-law was so impressed with Matt's attention to detail that he gave Matt his first microscope from when he was in medical school in the early 1940s. They couldn't travel to the wedding, which took place that July, and my father-in-law died that December. My brother-in-law has shown his customers my son-in-law's website and has gotten some commissioned works that way. So the first meeting of my daughter's then-fiance and her grandparents was a very sweet one. He still has one grandmother who lives in central Maine as well, so they have seen her several times.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> We have some specialty cheese shops who carry many fruit wines from different parts of the country. It is the dialect that turns epelvein into ebbelwoi. Apple Wine is made from Cider. Some fruit wines are made from a mixture of fruits.


Thought I remembered Boone's Farm Wines makes an apple wine.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Joey, I think you are very intelligent and I applaud you for your voracious stance against abortion. However, your persistence in publishing these articles (which provokes such negative feedback) makes me wonder whether you are practicing a designed campaign (not too dissimilar) to Amway, to procure more followers?
> 
> Why else would you do this? It doesn't make sense. You have behaved this way on this thread countless times and ALWAYS you receive the same negative responses. And those responses have never swayed you. You can't be that black and white surely? Why are you so intent on beating a dead horse?
> 
> ...


Brava to the greatest wombat in Oz.

Mrs. Somma is on a mission and I am sure that most of the readers skip her stuff unless it is just one sentence. And maybe even then. Probably most are conditioned to skip over any post that is from "Joey".


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you read this one or at least noticed it to make a comment. As I said at the beginning of this thread, if this changes the mind of one person and she decides to give her baby life, it will all be worth it.


I don't voice my opinion on many of these controversial subjects or postings, but just gotta say something regarding abortions. I do think it's a woman's own personal decision to not or do have one. But as you say Joeysomma, if your postings change 1 woman's mind to NOT have an abortion then so be it- I think it's a good thing. How do you think a person - male or female - thinks about an abortion if their birth mother made the decision to not abort & gave birth to her child? Gotta think they are glad she didn't abort. And, furthermore what a blessing that child is to the parents who adopted that baby/child. Surely those adoptive parents literally bless the birth mother every day of their life & how much they wish they could let the birth mother know what a wonderful thing she did. There are always 2 ways to look at a subject, so let's not judge 1 another if we've not personally been there, done that.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I read them, Joey. This is what a 23-week-old fetus looks like. It's beyond me that anyone can say that aborting this baby should be legal. This is the evil that we're against and the evil that the left continues to claim is their right to 'choose'.


I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you? You probably aren't even smart enough to realize how unnecessarily insulting you are. You have no idea why liberals are liberal and how we view sin, but that doesn't stop you from making things up.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


Under the banner of heaven as usual.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Under the banner of heaven as usual.


Both of you just hate the truth. Pretty sad.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Joey, I think you are very intelligent and I applaud you for your voracious stance against abortion. However, your persistence in publishing these articles (which provokes such negative feedback) makes me wonder whether you are practicing a designed campaign (not too dissimilar) to Amway, to procure more followers?
> 
> Why else would you do this? It doesn't make sense. You have behaved this way on this thread countless times and ALWAYS you receive the same negative responses. And those responses have never swayed you. You can't be that black and white surely? Why are you so intent on beating a dead horse?
> 
> ...


you are so wrong, very wrong.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh -- I definitely read the posts. I just don't read your hundreds of links and quotes. My belief in the right to choose also carries on to what we post - We are each responsible for what we post and what we read and what we say to others.
> 
> Anyway, time to go make dinner. We are in the West so it is earlier than most people on the thread.


You too are wrong.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


I really take exception to that! Who are you to tell me that I have no morals, or that I believe in Sin. You are so out of line! It saddens me that you can say that about us because we are liberals and honestly care for people. We don't tell you that you are sinful or evil although your posts make me feel sick at your narrow, rigid beliefs that only you and those who believe like you have the right to judge. Believe what you wish but don't you tell me that all sin is fine with me. I will put up my life incomparison to yours anytime. I treat people kindly- you judge people. As far as abortion is concerned - I have said I would never have one - I will always believe that God made us with brains and feelings and therefore wanted us to use those gifts.

I became a liberal as a young woman because of people in my Church who were rigid, narrow and hypocrital and because I don't have the narrow , judgmental feelings about Christianity that you do. I am so thankful that I don't. I always thought you were kind - you are not kind you are unkind. Live your life the way you want to Margaret -- just don't bother telling me how to live mine.

Believe what you wish- and I and other liberals will do the same. We all live by our concsciences. Mine is fine.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Brava to the greatest wombat in Oz.
> 
> Mrs. Somma is on a mission and I am sure that most of the readers skip her stuff unless it is just one sentence. And maybe even then. Probably most are conditioned to skip over any post that is from "Joey".


It only takes one person to go against 100, and still show the truth as she see it. One person saved is worth a million that do not believe.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I really take exception to that! Who are you to tell me that I have no morals, or that I believe in Sin. You are so out of line! It saddens me that you can say that about us because we are liberals and honestly care for people. We don't tell you that you are sinful or evil although your posts make me feel sick at your narrow, rigid beliefs that only you and those who believe like you have the right to judge. Believe what you wish but don't you tell me that all sin is good to me
> 
> I became a liberal as a young woman because of people in my Church who were rigid, narrow and hypocrital and because I don't have the narrow , judgmental feelings about Christianity that you do. I am so thankful that I don't. I always thought you were kind - you are not kind you are unkind. Live your life the way you want to Margaret -- just don't bother telling me how to live mine.
> 
> Believe what you wish- and I and other liberals will do the same. We all live by our concscience. Mine is fine.


If you are talking to me I don't read your post.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you? You probably aren't even smart enough to realize how unnecessarily insulting you are. You have no idea why liberals are liberal and how we view sin, but that doesn't stop you from making things up.


And you are just as nasty, and insulting and foul mouth. You would not know the truth if it was thrown in your face. You are so full of rage and angry towards anyone who does not believe as you do.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If you are talking to me I don't read your post.


I don't expect you to -- you are an unforgiving woman who can say dreadful things to others but won't read anything you don't care to hear. You aren't judging me? I thought that Jesus was the one who judges -


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I really take exception to that! Who are you to tell me that I have no morals, or that I believe in Sin. You are so out of line! It saddens me that you can say that about us because we are liberals and honestly care for people. We don't tell you that you are sinful or evil although your posts make me feel sick at your narrow, rigid beliefs that only you and those who believe like you have the right to judge. Believe what you wish but don't you tell me that all sin is fine with me. I will put up my life incomparison to yours anytime. I treat people kindly- you judge people. As far as abortion is concerned - I have said I would never have one - I will always believe that God made us with brains and feelings and therefore wanted us to use those gifts.
> 
> I became a liberal as a young woman because of people in my Church who were rigid, narrow and hypocrital and because I don't have the narrow , judgmental feelings about Christianity that you do. I am so thankful that I don't. I always thought you were kind - you are not kind you are unkind. Live your life the way you want to Margaret -- just don't bother telling me how to live mine.
> 
> Believe what you wish- and I and other liberals will do the same. We all live by our concsciences. Mine is fine.


Your truth is to buddy up to whom ever you want to impress.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't expect you to -- you are an unforgiving woman who can say dreadful things to others but won't read anything you don't care to hear. You aren't judging me? I thought that Jesus was the one who judges -


I haven't said a word to you so what are you talking about? I won't be talking to you again. Don't waste your time.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your truth is to buddy up to whom ever you want to impress.


Yarnie, you are quite welcome to insult me too.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Both of you just hate the truth. Pretty sad.


Your truth -- not ours -- thank Heavens -

You did read my post!!!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If you are talking to me I don't read your post.


I thought hating people is against your religion, and forgiving is part of it too. Hmmm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I really take exception to that! Who are you to tell me that I have no morals, or that I believe in Sin. You are so out of line! It saddens me that you can say that about us because we are liberals and honestly care for people. We don't tell you that you are sinful or evil although your posts make me feel sick at your narrow, rigid beliefs that only you and those who believe like you have the right to judge. Believe what you wish but don't you tell me that all sin is fine with me. I will put up my life incomparison to yours anytime. I treat people kindly- you judge people. As far as abortion is concerned - I have said I would never have one - I will always believe that God made us with brains and feelings and therefore wanted us to use those gifts.
> 
> I became a liberal as a young woman because of people in my Church who were rigid, narrow and hypocrital and because I don't have the narrow , judgmental feelings about Christianity that you do. I am so thankful that I don't. I always thought you were kind - you are not kind you are unkind. Live your life the way you want to Margaret -- just don't bother telling me how to live mine.
> 
> Believe what you wish- and I and other liberals will do the same. We all live by our concsciences. Mine is fine.


This really deserves a brava!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> And you are just as nasty, and insulting and foul mouth. You would not know the truth if it was thrown in your face. You are so full of rage and angry towards anyone who does not believe as you do.


You're obviously wrong because almost none of my friends believe as I do. And I didn't speak against CB until she said what she said.

If you can show me where I have a foul mouth, I'll be surprised.

I don't claim to know the truth, but I'm absolutely certain it doesn't come from you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought hating people is against your religion, and forgiving is part of it too. Hmmm.


So now we all know what hypocrisy looks like.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sckppt said:


> She's only "tuned into" liars' goings ons and is only educated in abject stupidity and anti-LEGIT Science rhetoric and nothing above that.
> 
> Cosnservatives are the ones with no morals or compassion, and belie e in sacrificing REAL humans for what is little more than goo
> 
> ...


I do not agree with this post.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought hating people is against your religion, and forgiving is part of it too. Hmmm.


You always put words in other peoples mouths. I don't hate I never said hate . I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to have you for a friend. You showed your true colors 3 times with me. You can save your preaching to me. You are the one showing your tail here. I can voice an opinion just like the rest but don't change my words around.
The topic is War on Woman about abortion. Abortion is murder. God said I can judge murder because Thou shall not kill . The sixth commandment.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh -- I definitely read the posts. I just don't read your hundreds of links and quotes. My belief in the right to choose also carries on to what we post - We are each responsible for what we post and what we read and what we say to others.
> ...


She's wrong about what she said in this message? So you don't think we are each responsible for what we post? That figures.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I haven't said a word to you so what are you talking about? I won't be talking to you again. Don't waste your time.


A good Christian response. That is it for me -- no more -- but I am not leaving here.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

sckppt said:


> No that's more SQM's schtick. As much as KfN annoys me, I dont doubt her sincerity.


Thanks Hydra. See ya with another head tomorrow I am sure.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks Hydra. See ya with another head tomorrow I am sure.


 :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I haven't said a word to you so what are you talking about? I won't be talking to you again. Don't waste your time.


You didn't say a word *to* Designer but you said quite a few sickening words about her, and me, and a lot of other people. Any one of us can respond, but your mind is so closed to anything outside your faith that you can't even see that what you've done is wrong.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your truth is to buddy up to whom ever you want to impress.


Thanks yarnie - yes I tried to have a conversation with you two or three times -- big mistake- I am not interested now. You have all convinced me that I really don't want to get to know you any better than I already do.

Before that I pm'd you about your Father and have posted that I was thinking about you on D and P. But good thoughts and wishes are only good if you are not a liberal. Instead you are too perfect to accept a legitimate wish for your father's good health. I still hope that he is not in pain and that you are okay. So be it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You always put words in other peoples mouths. I don't hate I never said hate . I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to have you for a friend. You showed your true colors 3 times with me. You can save your preaching to me. You are the one showing your tail here. I can voice an opinion just like the rest but don't change my words around.
> The topic is War on Woman about abortion. Abortion is murder. God said I can judge murder because Thou shall not kill . The sixth commandment.


So, why may I ask, do you point out all liberals as being sinners and believing in sin? Believing in a woman's right to choose is no sin. 
Can you honestly say that there are absolutely no conservative women who believe the same and have had abortions themselves? To allocate judgement on an entire political party is not fair. To say that liberals are liberals because they believe in sin is just not right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sckppt said:


> She's only "tuned into" liars' goings ons and is only educated in abject stupidity and anti-LEGIT Science rhetoric and nothing above that.
> 
> Cosnservatives are the ones with no morals or compassion, and belie e in sacrificing REAL humans for what is little more than goo
> 
> ...


Just wanted to see this again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Just wanted to see this again.


I think our friends on the right haven't been getting any

hormones lately.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> My son-in-law met my in-laws around Passover 2007, when they paid his airfare as well as my daughter's to fly out to Detroit to be with them for the holiday celebration. At that time SIL-to-be first saw my brother-in-law's shop and they wished they were nearer so SIL could work in BIL's jewelry shop. Matt made the wedding ring he gave my daughter, and Richard made the wedding ring as a gift for his niece to give her bridegroom. My father-in-law was so impressed with Matt's attention to detail that he gave Matt his first microscope from when he was in medical school in the early 1940s. They couldn't travel to the wedding, which took place that July, and my father-in-law died that December. My brother-in-law has shown his customers my son-in-law's website and has gotten some commissioned works that way. So the first meeting of my daughter's then-fiance and her grandparents was a very sweet one. He still has one grandmother who lives in central Maine as well, so they have seen her several times.


I was planning to respond to this, but things here have gotten so off-the-wall I forgot what I wanted to say. But your family sounds like people I would love to know. What is sil's website? I'd like to see his work, though truly I'm way past the jewelry stage.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gerslay must have cleaned her mirror.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You didn't say a word *to* Designer but you said quite a few sickening words about her, and me, and a lot of other people. Any one of us can respond, but your mind is so closed to anything outside your faith that you can't even see that what you've done is wrong.


So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me. Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gerslay must have cleaned her mirror.


You need to talk to adults more often...you're sounding like your GD!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You always put words in other peoples mouths. I don't hate I never said hate . I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to have you for a friend. You showed your true colors 3 times with me. You can save your preaching to me. You are the one showing your tail here. I can voice an opinion just like the rest but don't change my words around.
> The topic is War on Woman about abortion. Abortion is murder. God said I can judge murder because Thou shall not kill . The sixth commandment.


I copied your words in color -- you didn't say them??? come on.

Yes, I disagreed with you 3 whole times -- you said things that horrified me.- you disagreed with me. I knifed you in the back! and you, a good Christian woman didn't feel you wanted to forgive my sins.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I copied your words in color -- you didn't say them??? come on.
> 
> Yes, I disagreed with you 3 whole times -- you said things that horrified me.- you disagreed with me. I knifed you in the back! and you, a good Christian woman didn't feel you wanted to forgive my sins.


No you lied on me . I never said I didn't forgive you. You made that up. You lied and said I said things to SQM that I did not. You even said it on Loll. You are not seeing things clearly. Maybe it is your meds.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think our friends on the right haven't been getting any
> 
> hormones lately.


Oh, Patty, I think I love you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh, please,Gerslay! Your little cartoon wasn't juvenile at best? 
As for sounding like my GD I will take that as a compliment. She is very sweet.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh, please,Gerslay! Your little cartoon wasn't juvenile at best?
> As for sounding like my GD I will take that as a compliment. She is very sweet.


My cartoon was clever and to the point.
Your remark was weak and I bet your GD could do better.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> My cartoon was clever and to the point.
> Your remark was weak and I bet your GD could do better.


My, my, you ladies really want to rumble tonight!

Your cartooned sucked.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My, my, you ladies really want to rumble tonight!
> 
> Your cartooned sucked.


Now that's more like the ole Bratty we're used to!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me. Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


Where do I "blast Christians with every breath"? Just show me. I have nothing against Christians who try to do what Jesus said they should do. You can ask Nebraska. But I have a lot against phonies who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

And if you speak about "liberals" in general, you _are_ speaking about me, even if you don't know what you're talking about.

Never mind. You'll never admit that what you wrote was very wrong, besides being untrue. And you'll keep on thinking that God forgives you no matter what you do. But you can't fool Him.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

You know who you are:

I've seen your 'chubby hubby' and now I know why you were going after mine!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No you lied on me . I never said I didn't forgive you. You made that up. You lied and said I said things to SQM that I did not. You even said it on Loll. You are not seeing things clearly. Maybe it is your meds.


Apologies are not accepted are they. I apologized publicly --and you know it. \

No need to carry it on. I am not interested in flogging a dead horse any more. You are unforgiving - that is your problem, not mine. Keep your anger - it is your problem, not mine.

------------------------

Change of subject -- I finished with the holter monitor today and only one test left - same old same old as Al had - then hopefully things will settle down.

SQM -- how is the workshop going -- what did you have to write today?

I wish you were all up here. The Stampede is on and I just watched the chuckwagon races on TV. We don't go to the grounds each year - but did go with our Grand daughter last year. We took her to the actual rodeo and she was entranced with the horses. then walked through the barns and the horses were gorgeous. she patted a Clydedale (heavy horse) which was the lead horse in a heavy wagon with 6 clydesdales, we also saw the Percherons. They are all huge!

Did anyone see the tennis match at Wimbledon? we had a wonderful 20 year old who was in the women's finals . She lost but it is the first time ever one of our tennis players reached the finals. A young Canadian man was ousted by Federer who won the title too.

The hurricane is now in the Maritime Provinces but has died down a lot. still doing a lot of damage. I hope no one was in the path of the storm.

PBS is showing a wonderful show honoring Johnny Cash - excellent. I am listening while I am typing. Going to take a break and watch, then go to bed and read.

Everyone have a good evening - I swear I won't get my knickers in a knot for at least another week!!

:-( :shock: :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Apologies are not accepted are they. I apologized publicly --and you know it. \
> 
> No need to carry it on. I am not interested in flogging a dead horse any more. You are unforgiving - that is your problem, not mine. Keep your anger - it is your problem, not mine.
> 
> ...


You are judging me. :shock: Also calling me names. I don't have anger until someone starts lying on me. You are the one that is hostile and jumped on me on a general statement about a liberal.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

What's her face that only has a shadow life on KP because PP archives her posts:

Awww...you're upset! You can't have my husband...you'll have to settle for your own chubby hubby!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> What's her face that only has a shadow life on KP because PP archives her posts:
> 
> Awww...you're upset! You can't have my husband...you'll have to settle for your own chubby hubby!


She is like a vapor. Here then gone.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are judging me. :shock: Also calling me names. I don't have anger until someone starts lying on me. You are the one that is hostile and jumped on me on a general statement about a liberal.


Sorry, you can't weasel out. You didn't say "*a* liberal," you said "liberal*s*."


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, you can't weasel out. You didn't say "*a* liberal," you said "liberal*s*."


Whatever. Sue me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Whatever. Sue me.


I won't sue you, but I'll answer you back whenever it's warranted. You see, God doesn't forgive you and neither do I.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is like a vapor. Here then gone.


Oh, but PP archived one post so the Phoenix will rise from the ashes! Tune in tomorrow night same time same place!

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sckppt said:


> Well you've seen _someone's_ chubby hubby, who knows if it's mine or Jody's or Cheeky Blighters or one of the dozens of other people you thought was me.
> 
> Gee, if you really knew who I was, I might be upset with what you just said. Instead I'll just laugh at the latest incarnation you think you've discovered.
> 
> But given that few men are into Bea Arthur look alikes, no wonder he's been cheating on you with other FEMININE looking women online.


Hey, kids, if you don't stop that hollering and fighting, I'm going to come up there and give you both a smack!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sckppt said:


> You, stand out from that crowd for a reason, and that is because even though you are easily bamboozeled by RW rhetoric (you can be quite anti-intellectual at times---it's self evident that the difference beteen you and them is that you strive to be a half decent person.


I don't even pretend to be an intellectual and how have you reached that conclusion???- I am not anti- I just don't worry about it . I guess that means I am not on your level??? hmm.

I appreciate it that you think I am bamboozled by RW rhetoric- however, I didn't know that!! Thanks so much for teaching me that.

At least CB believes what she says, you enjoy 
upsetting people with whatever nastines you can come up with.

----------------

By the way Dame- could you pm me susan's avatar name - I thought I had a message from her from awhile ago -but I cleaned out my pm's and can't find it. I had my message to her returned.

thanks friend.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sckppt said:


> So?
> 
> Your presumption that it is or should be everyone's goal to
> be "non cutting", is kind of stupid and unrealistic.
> ...


And it is your personal aim to make sure you do that with everyone. What a waste! Cut away --

Yes - It is my personal goal to be non cutting -- I don't care for it myself. Actually I am proud of the fact that I don't really care to make everyone my enemy.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sckppt said:


> Well thanks for the honesty in admitting that you have to make an effort to be non-cutting. For me it's the opposite, it's not in my nature to be like that as it is for you and your need to revent yourself from being so.
> 
> And I certainly don't make _everyone_ my enemy. Quite the opposite as my PM box fills up with thank yous for having said the truthful thing that everybody was thinking but was afraid to say.
> 
> ...


----
I wondered what you would say in answer. not wrong.

You hand it out but you don't take it very well. so be it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Major Newspapers Reject Pro-Life Ad, Image of Baby Too Controversial
> 
> by Caleb Parke | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/5/13 11:41 AM
> 
> ...


My triplet grand babies were born at about 22 weeks. They were about 10" long. So this doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sckppt said:


> That is because you base your opinion on doctored pictures and not scientific fact and because you dont value woment as much as you value propaganda.


Gersly's picture is true! My grand babies looked like that, only a little skinnier.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me. Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


I have no problem declaring or discussing my Christianity. Perhaps its because I speak it without condemning others. I try to live my beliefs. I also believe that we can reach more people through example rather than condemnation. I also continuously fight against people making generalities. I chastise them for doing it so I will also chastise you for doing it. Not all liberals are the same, just as not all conservatives are the same. I've been coming on here for months now. Initially I returned insult with insult. No one gained anything, least of all, understanding. When I treat them with respect, they treat me with respect. While we disagree on most things, we're able to carry out a discussion on most things. It saddens me when someone whose beliefs more align with my own, just comes on to stir things up. You don't like when they do it to you, so why do you do it to them? Have your say but do it respectfully or just leave each other alone!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sckppt said:


> Or its nothing more than a rubber doll.


I HELD my grandbabies!!! I KNOW what they looked like!!! I also know how big they were, I made burial gowns for them!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No you lied on me . I never said I didn't forgive you. You made that up. You lied and said I said things to SQM that I did not. You even said it on Loll. You are not seeing things clearly. Maybe it is your meds.


Why would you even make a nasty comment like this?!? I'm so sick of crap like this! Whether its been said to you or not, why would you say this?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sckppt said:


> Is that the advice you give Nelson when he's going all "Anthony Weiner" on his "Facebook Gals"?


Seriously?!? What's to be gained from this?!? Its garbage!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Apologies are not accepted are they. I apologized publicly --and you know it. \
> 
> No need to carry it on. I am not interested in flogging a dead horse any more. You are unforgiving - that is your problem, not mine. Keep your anger - it is your problem, not mine.
> 
> ...


Shirley, I'm glad you're done with your tests. I hope you get good news!

I'm just coming off a migraine. This one lasted 24 hours. In the past, they've been 12 hours. I hope its not an omen.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> And it is your personal aim to make sure you do that with everyone. What a waste! Cut away --
> 
> Yes - It is my personal goal to be non cutting -- I don't care for it myself. Actually I am proud of the fact that I don't really care to make everyone my enemy.


Thank you Shirley! I appreciate it!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sckppt said:


> I know you THINK you know who I am, just like you knew who I was as Jody Briskey, or Cheeky, or probably a dozen others. You'd think you'd have learned your lesson by now.
> 
> But we DO know who you are and we do have sweet little nothings your husband sent numerous other women under his other FB account.
> 
> ...


This is just disgusting! You seem to take great pleasure in hurting other people! Why don't you just go away?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sckppt said:


> Well thanks for the honesty in admitting that you have to make an effort to be non-cutting. For me it's the opposite, it's not in my nature to be like that as it is for you and your need to revent yourself from being so.
> 
> And I certainly don't make _everyone_ my enemy. Quite the opposite as my PM box fills up with thank yous for having said the truthful thing that everybody was thinking but was afraid to say.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah! A big shot mouth! It must be great to insult people under the cover of anonymity! If you're like this in real life, I bet you have no friends! You've gone too far! You could learn a lot from Shirley!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, I'm so glad I took the trouble to catch up on everything! Tomorrow is a new day!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My choice is to ignore boring cut and paste comments. It would mean much more if some personal thoughts were included, but only sermons have appeared.

So joey, post on. We don't read your cut and paste comments anymore, but the rest of us are enjoying a varied discussion with many POV's.

Have a nice holiday weekend everyone.



Designer1234 said:


> Joey, Joey, none of us read them. It is a wasted effort but your choice. I am pro choice - so that a woman can make her own decision.
> 
> I would never have chosen an abortion. But I believe that a woman should be treated like an adult and that no one else should be able to decide for her what she does as it is her body, not the Government's and not the Republican Party, or any Church, or any person whose business it isn't..


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since we're looking at different perspectives, how many of us have considered (IMHO a more common occurrence) that the fetus may be condemned from the beginning to a shortened, painful life? The fetus may not be a tiny infant, but rather an unrecognizable being. I feel it is between a woman and her physician to determine the best actions in her particular case.



Georgiegirl said:


> I don't voice my opinion on many of these controversial subjects or postings, but just gotta say something regarding abortions. I do think it's a woman's own personal decision to not or do have one. But as you say Joeysomma, if your postings change 1 woman's mind to NOT have an abortion then so be it- I think it's a good thing. How do you think a person - male or female - thinks about an abortion if their birth mother made the decision to not abort & gave birth to her child? Gotta think they are glad she didn't abort. And, furthermore what a blessing that child is to the parents who adopted that baby/child. Surely those adoptive parents literally bless the birth mother every day of their life & how much they wish they could let the birth mother know what a wonderful thing she did. There are always 2 ways to look at a subject, so let's not judge 1 another if we've not personally been there, done that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You forgot to add this is your personal opinion and not meant as a judgement on others.

Have a nice holiday weekend.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you? You probably aren't even smart enough to realize how unnecessarily insulting you are. You have no idea why liberals are liberal and how we view sin, but that doesn't stop you from making things up.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put Shirley. I'm with you. My conscience is clear.



Designer1234 said:


> I really take exception to that! Who are you to tell me that I have no morals, or that I believe in Sin. You are so out of line! It saddens me that you can say that about us because we are liberals and honestly care for people. We don't tell you that you are sinful or evil although your posts make me feel sick at your narrow, rigid beliefs that only you and those who believe like you have the right to judge. Believe what you wish but don't you tell me that all sin is fine with me. I will put up my life incomparison to yours anytime. I treat people kindly- you judge people. As far as abortion is concerned - I have said I would never have one - I will always believe that God made us with brains and feelings and therefore wanted us to use those gifts.
> 
> I became a liberal as a young woman because of people in my Church who were rigid, narrow and hypocrital and because I don't have the narrow , judgmental feelings about Christianity that you do. I am so thankful that I don't. I always thought you were kind - you are not kind you are unkind. Live your life the way you want to Margaret -- just don't bother telling me how to live mine.
> 
> Believe what you wish- and I and other liberals will do the same. We all live by our concsciences. Mine is fine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> And you are just as nasty, and insulting and foul mouth. You would not know the truth if it was thrown in your face. You are so full of rage and angry towards anyone who does not believe as you do.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. Only answer I see. She's a hypocrite.



Designer1234 said:


> I thought hating people is against your religion, and forgiving is part of it too. Hmmm.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You're obviously wrong because almost none of my friends believe as I do. And I didn't speak against CB until she said what she said.
> 
> If you can show me where I have a foul mouth, I'll be surprised.
> 
> I don't claim to know the truth, but I'm absolutely certain it doesn't come from you.


         :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So now we all know what hypocrisy looks like.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I do not agree with this post.


I find that I do agree. I did not see the original post anywhere else. I only read it through your comment. Where did it originate? Puzzled.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO there are many wars on women today. That's the reason there are so many different trains of thought here and why it has gone on so long. There are differing opinions here and in the world at large. I respect that. You try to change that.



Country Bumpkins said:


> You always put words in other peoples mouths. I don't hate I never said hate . I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to have you for a friend. You showed your true colors 3 times with me. You can save your preaching to me. You are the one showing your tail here. I can voice an opinion just like the rest but don't change my words around.
> The topic is War on Woman about abortion. Abortion is murder. God said I can judge murder because Thou shall not kill . The sixth commandment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good girl Shirley. You add much to the discussion.



Designer1234 said:


> A good Christian response. That is it for me -- no more -- but I am not leaving here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I get it now. Puzzle solved.



SQM said:


> Thanks Hydra. See ya with another head tomorrow I am sure.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> So, why may I ask, do you point out all liberals as being sinners and believing in sin? Believing in a woman's right to choose is no sin.
> Can you honestly say that there are absolutely no conservative women who believe the same and have had abortions themselves? To allocate judgement on an entire political party is not fair. To say that liberals are liberals because they believe in sin is just not right.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too. Thanks. I missed original.



Poor Purl said:


> Just wanted to see this again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think our friends on the right haven't been getting any
> 
> hormones lately.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gerslay must have cleaned her mirror.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: ROFL


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me. Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


I see 'spaz' in your column.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The civil thought is to leave children and other innocents out of this. I see you choose not to adhere to this tenet. That makes you a crude outsider.



Gerslay said:


> You need to talk to adults more often...you're sounding like your GD!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Save the effort, Shirley. Not worth it sadly.



Designer1234 said:


> I copied your words in color -- you didn't say them??? come on.
> 
> Yes, I disagreed with you 3 whole times -- you said things that horrified me.- you disagreed with me. I knifed you in the back! and you, a good Christian woman didn't feel you wanted to forgive my sins.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My, my, you ladies really want to rumble tonight!
> 
> Your cartooned sucked.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Crudely drawn and unfunny at best. Good critique Patty.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the soap opera continues. Not much fun. All threat and innuendo.



Gerslay said:


> You know who you are:
> 
> I've seen your 'chubby hubby' and now I know why you were going after mine!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad your tests are complete. Hugs.



Designer1234 said:


> Apologies are not accepted are they. I apologized publicly --and you know it. \
> 
> No need to carry it on. I am not interested in flogging a dead horse any more. You are unforgiving - that is your problem, not mine. Keep your anger - it is your problem, not mine.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> What's her face that only has a shadow life on KP because PP archives her posts:
> 
> Awww...you're upset! You can't have my husband...you'll have to settle for your own chubby hubby!


 :evil:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Whatever. Sue me.


Clever reply. NOT.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, PP. I'm with you.



Poor Purl said:


> I won't sue you, but I'll answer you back whenever it's warranted. You see, God doesn't forgive you and neither do I.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry for your family's loss.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I HELD my grandbabies!!! I KNOW what they looked like!!! I also know how big they were, I made burial gowns for them!


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


Me neither - when/why did all this start.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joeysomma started the thread as an extension of her anti-choice crusade. It morphed into many other opinions of women's issues.

Please feel free to join in if so inclined.



beanscene said:


> Me neither - when/why did all this start.


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> A discussion on the pointy bras from the 50s. I mentioned that I have one.


I'm with Emmy Cat, but still don't understand what this is all about. Probably would help to see original post that prompted this discussion. I usually just pass on posts that don't make sense to me, but this one is the most confusing.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Joeysomma started the thread as an extension of her anti-choice crusade. It morphed into many other opinions of women's issues.
> 
> Please feel free to join in if so inclined.


I wouldn't really know what to say as you seem to be covering so many issues which I haven't been 'in' on! But for sure you will get the support you need from fellow KP'ers, mostly?!


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Emmy Cat said:


> I DONT GET WHAT THIS POST IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!???
> 
> eMMY


Same here what are we all talking about ?????


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

scottishlass said:


> Same here what are we all talking about ?????


My sentiments exactly! Thought it was just me.......seems to me the discussion starts off the wall. Makes no sense......


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have no problem declaring or discussing my Christianity. Perhaps its because I speak it without condemning others. I try to live my beliefs. I also believe that we can reach more people through example rather than condemnation. I also continuously fight against people making generalities. I chastise them for doing it so I will also chastise you for doing it. Not all liberals are the same, just as not all conservatives are the same. I've been coming on here for months now. Initially I returned insult with insult. No one gained anything, least of all, understanding. When I treat them with respect, they treat me with respect. While we disagree on most things, we're able to carry out a discussion on most things. It saddens me when someone whose beliefs more align with my own, just comes on to stir things up. You don't like when they do it to you, so why do you do it to them? Have your say but do it respectfully or just leave each other alone!


hear hear! You are a breath of fresh air to me. I am sorry you lost your 3 little triplets. I know your sadness. I have lost babies too. It never stops hurting. Anyway, I am glad you feel welcome here. I hope they don't treat you badly because you dared to have an open mind.

It obviously won't change or improve. It has been going on since before the first election. It started off civilly but with so much water under the bridge - it will never be healed I am afraid.

Meanwhile- visit with us and discuss with us - and become friends with most of us :thumbup: We have our closed minds and unkind
people too - although thank heavens 99% of us are pretty easy to get along with if any effort at all is made.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Well Well, *three times* the magic number, same as the Lord. 


Country Bumpkins said:


> You always put words in other peoples mouths. I don't hate I never said hate . I can forgive but that doesn't mean I have to have you for a friend. You showed your true colors 3 times with me. You can save your preaching to me. You are the one showing your tail here. I can voice an opinion just like the rest but don't change my words around.
> The topic is War on Woman about abortion. Abortion is murder. God said I can judge murder because Thou shall not kill . The sixth commandment.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why would you even make a nasty comment like this?!? I'm so sick of crap like this! Whether its been said to you or not, why would you say this?


KFN...respectfully, I cannot see a single word that can be described as nasty in that post. Not one! I don't understand your comment at all.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> If my pro-life postings bother you, don't read them. I will continue as long as someone is replying on this thread. I will quit posting when there is no one left on this thread but pro- life people.
> 
> You definitely cannot say a 20 - 24 week old fetus is a blob of cells and is not a baby.


It does not matter whether it is a blob of cells or not, thanks to the knowledge of medical technicians a fetus can now become a baby sometimes at those early stages of development. 
It is a wonderful thing as a job creator, it provides security in the medical field and educational settings. It brings joy to the families that it does not destroy. Thank God for the liberals so that families can have insurance to take care of the bills.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> And the soap opera continues. Not much fun. All threat and innuendo.


Critique your own, Dame! Oh wait, you can't because her posts get deleted every night.

Feel better now...all puffed up and self-important?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Shirley, I'm glad you're done with your tests. I hope you get good news!
> 
> I'm just coming off a migraine. This one lasted 24 hours. In the past, they've been 12 hours. I hope its not an omen.


you have been under a lot of stress this past month - maybe that is what caused the migraine. Hope you feel better.


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## littlebaba (Jul 20, 2013)

Hello, space here for a witch to get in, like how some of you think


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> And you are just as nasty, and insulting and foul mouth. You would not know the truth if it was thrown in your face. You are so full of rage and angry towards anyone who does not believe as you do.


It seems that you are admitting that you view that bumpkin as nasty and insulting. Thank you for that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> KFN...respectfully, I cannot see a single word that can be described as nasty in that post. Not one! I don't understand your comment at all.


It was the "maybe its your meds" comment I was referring to. You see nothing nasty about that? I do!


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I was planning to respond to this, but things here have gotten so off-the-wall I forgot what I wanted to say. But your family sounds like people I would love to know. What is sil's website? I'd like to see his work, though truly I'm way past the jewelry stage.


My SIL's website is http://mailmaker.tripod.com
Be careful not to allow "www" into the address, as that will get you something very different. If you get to "Twisted Metal and Broken Glass" you are in the right place. He has not updated it particularly recently.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the "maybe its your meds" comment I was referring to. You see nothing nasty about that? I do!


OIC...I guess it could be taken that way. Knowing that Designer is in the middle of tests I took it the other way, that she was giving that thought some consideration.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

Marie from NC said:


> My sentiments exactly! Thought it was just me.......seems to me the discussion starts off the wall. Makes no sense......


Blimey, one to stay well out of methinks!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> OIC...I guess it could be taken that way. Knowing that Designer is in the middle of tests I took it the other way, that she was giving that thought some consideration.


No, that comment has been made many times. I find it rude and disgusting.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the "maybe its your meds" comment I was referring to. You see nothing nasty about that? I do!


Thanks KFN. the remark was a bit nasty, as I am and have been taking medical tests for this past full month. To be expected though. I am on meds but not the kind that cause you to 
lose it.

One more big test and then appointments to find out what if anything is wrong. I just finished the last heart test yesterday and as I haven't heard back from any of them I hope everything is okay there. The people who gave me the echo and the perfusion stress test told me I would hear right away if there was anything too serious that needed immediate attention -I haven't heard anything so -- no news is good news in this case.

=========

It is another beautiful summer day here -- we get so few of them that I have to mention it! No excessive heat - but a bright sunny day. Our Calgary Stampede is once again very successful.

A year ago this city and the lower half of our Province (Alberta) was recovering from a horrible flood - the worst in our history. This year Manitoba, Saskatchewan and parts of the east coast are being flooded. On top of that the tail end of the hurricane (Andrew??) hit Nova Scotia and will hit Newfoundland today. It is not hurricane strength but still very strong. Our son and family just went out to Vancouver Island to check out houses etc. Their house here is up for sale. Depending on our health results (both of us) we hope to move out to Vancouver Island within the next few months but as we have excellent doctors and health care here we won't decide anything until we hear results. I am hoping to go there as the weather is much less bitter - more rain, very little if any snow and warmer temps. I love the Island.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> No, that comment has been made many times. I find it rude and disgusting.


I know what that comment generally means, but knowing CB as I do, I think my POV is quite possible. She very well could have been giving Designer a pass.

Anyway...this isn't about either one of us...shall we drop it?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> OIC...I guess it could be taken that way. Knowing that Designer is in the middle of tests I took it the other way, that she was giving that thought some consideration.


 I doubt she is giving it any consideration at all. Whatever she meant , I know what she thinks and have stopped worrying about it.

She is your friend and I would expect friends to back each other -- mine support me so it is best we leave it -- Thanks anyway KFB.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why would you even make a nasty comment like this?!? I'm so sick of crap like this! Whether its been said to you or not, why would you say this?


Deleted


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I doubt she is giving it any consideration at all. Whatever she meant , I know what she thinks and have stopped worrying about it.
> 
> She is your friend and I would expect friends to back each other -- mine support me so it is best we leave it -- Thanks anyway KFB.


deleted.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are putting words in my mouth again. That is calling lying. You don't have a clue what I think.


So now I am a liar. You made it clear yesterday what you think of me - over and over and over. You know what you meant and so do I. however lets leave it that the remark was meant with kindness - about my meds. You know if it was - and I have a good idea whether it was or not. It isn't worth fighting about.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Friends-- I am not running, but we are going to Church as my niece is singing a solo, and then out with my daughter, hopefully I will be gone for the day and things might be more pleasant when I get home. KFN -- hope your migraine is better. 

Have a good day everyone.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why do you feel you need to get involved with my discussion? You don't have to read my post. I said a liberal believes in the sin of murder for a baby with abortion and PP and Designer jumps down my throat. Why don't you tell them how sick you are of their crap? You have just added to the list of 5 now to try to stomp me in the ground because I posted for the first time since Mother's Day with a 2 line opinion.
> Designer has even said herself she has not be up to things lately. Why shouldn't I blame it on her meds. That was her way out of her behavior lately.
> Why don't you just good naturally laugh me off like you do all the libs? Or mind you own business. Seems like you have enough on your plate right now without borrowing trouble.


I still think your comment was mean spirited and unecessary! You can make all the excuses you want. It doesn't change my opinion. Maybe I expect more from you because you are a Christian!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> So now I am a liar.  You made it clear yesterday what you think of me - over and over and over. You know what you meant and so do I. however lets leave it that the remark was meant with kindness - about my meds. You know if it was - and I have a good idea whether it was or not. It isn't worth fighting about.


Deleted


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I still think your comment was mean spirited and unecessary! You can make all the excuses you want. It doesn't change my opinion. Maybe I expect more from you because you are a Christian!


Deleted


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am only a person saved my Grace. You need to point those 3 fingers right back at yourself. I don't make excuses I tell the truth. Just you and you crones don't like the truth. Designer wants it to stop it is up to you. I will keep defending myself until all of you do. You are not a mind reader either. I don't need you to be the Holy Spirit to me.


If you're gonna keep defending yourself until all of us do, its gonna be a looonngg time. I cannot defend your behavior. And I have NEVER claimed to be the Holy Spirit. But I do wonder sometimes if you recognize the Holy Spirit. We are admonished to behave in a CHRIST like manner. You know, "Love thine enemies"? Forgive 70 times 7 times? I know that we are sinners and that we are saved by grace, but we're supposed to TRY!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If you're gonna keep defending yourself until all of us do, its gonna be a looonngg time. I cannot defend your behavior. And I have NEVER claimed to be the Holy Spirit. But I do wonder sometimes if you recognize the Holy Spirit. We are admonished to behave in a CHRIST like manner. You know, "Love thine enemies"? Forgive 70 times 7 times? I know that we are sinners and that we are saved by grace, but we're supposed to TRY!


I forgive you for coming after me. God Bless you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I doubt she is giving it any consideration at all. Whatever she meant , I know what she thinks and have stopped worrying about it.
> 
> She is your friend and I would expect friends to back each other -- mine support me so it is best we leave it -- Thanks anyway KFB.


I forgive you for coming after me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you for coming after me. God Bless you.


I'm sorry you see it is my coming after you. It was my intent to hold a mirror up so that you could see how you come across. You are forgiven also.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Planned Parenthood Official Quits Debate, ended in /2014/07/03/planned-parenthood-official-quits-debate-cant-respond-to-science-that-life-begins-at-conception/


joeysomma
since you are so concerned about children, GET BUSY and help those unfortunate ones who are fleeing into the arms of our Nation or is bigotry and racism keeping you from caring about those? If so, feed the hungry American children, we have plenty of those that your kind keep ignoring.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry you see it is my coming after you. It was my intent to hold a mirror up so that you could see how you come across. You are forgiven also.


Thank you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> You forgot to add this is your personal opinion and not meant as a judgement on others.
> 
> Have a nice holiday weekend.


I forgive you for talking bad about me.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Liar. Liar. Pants on fire. Only answer I see. She's a hypocrite.


I forgive you for calling me a liar and a hypocrite. In Jesus Name.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I won't sue you, but I'll answer you back whenever it's warranted. You see, God doesn't forgive you and neither do I.


I forgive you in Jesus Name.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> since you are so concerned about children, GET BUSY and help those unfortunate ones who are fleeing into the arms of our Nation or is bigotry and racism keeping you from caring about those? If so, feed the hungry American children, we have plenty of those that your kind keep ignoring.


What is the connection between illegal immigration and abortion? Are you suggesting that we should abort our children so that we can afford to take care of others? Or that we are obligated to provide illegal immigrants with a lifestyle similar to our own? Or was your statement merely antagonistic?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> So now I am a liar. You made it clear yesterday what you think of me - over and over and over. You know what you meant and so do I. however lets leave it that the remark was meant with kindness - about my meds. You know if it was - and I have a good idea whether it was or not. It isn't worth fighting about.


Designer1234
I wish you all the best and hope that those who have been unfair and unkind to you, take a hike. You have been trying to soften the tone here but it has fallen on deaf ears. Don't let anyone ruffle your feathers.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry you see it is my coming after you. It was my intent to hold a mirror up so that you could see how you come across. You are forgiven also.


Deleted my answer to CB -


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


Do you even *know* any liberals as fellow human beings? Or are you in such an insulated little conservative cocoon that you only communicate with people with your own narrow and bigoted perspective on life. Of course there are liberals whose morals I would not praise. But from what I have seen the sins of amorality spewed by some of the bastions of conservatism are worse.

A person can sin on a personal level, depending on how one views sin, by cohabiting with another consenting adult. Some would cast stones, others would say that they are adults and let them live their lives.

But the ones who go to a public forum and condemn women by taking away their personal freedoms, who take away the lifelines of assistance from the needy, who would gut social security, who would deny people health services, are the worst of sinners. The sanctimonious hypocrites especially, those who have the resources to get whatever money can buy, underpay employees then sneer at them because they are lazy and can't afford food or health care, are worse sinners than any homosexual couple who adopt the unadoptable and raise them with love and warmth. The rich guys who are promiscuous and condemn "whores" who get pregnant out of wedlock are such pigs words cannot describe how vile they are.

And whose business is it to stick one's nose in someone else's uterus and tell her how to live her life. I would never have an abortion. I think it is a dreadful decision to have to make. But if a woman's life depended upon not being pregnant, if she has a heart condition, if she has something like Crone's disease, if she has breast cancer, and carrying to term could cause her death, the person who denies her a safe abortion if she becomes pregnant is the murderer. In fact that one is a double murderer, dooming the adult woman and the potential baby who will die with its mother.

So don't go spewing your cold heartless rhetoric that shows you to be a cold heartless person. You appear to be pickled in venom.

The mere idea that a person's personal private health decisions have been politicized is abhorrent. The deists who founded this country would be, I am sure, horrified that there are those who would force their religious viewpoint on all of us.

You are entitled to your religious viewpoint. And so am I to mine. And so is the atheist to his or her non religious viewpoint. This country will die as either a republic or a democracy when the five old men in black force fundamentalist sharia upon us all in what has been a shining light of freedom and self determination for the world.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Both of you just hate the truth. Pretty sad.


It is very sad that you are so deluded that you can only see your own truth. We are not the haters. We are saddened that someone who apparently has a decent level of intelligence does not have the human qualities of empathy and compassion. We pity rather than hate.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you are so wrong, very wrong.


Perhaps in your tunnel vision oriented eyes. Wombat has made a sensible and human comment, showing understanding for other viewpoints.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> You too are wrong.


So easy to say someone is wrong. She is expressing her opinion, lady, not writing a thesis that needs to be defended to a committee. Let's have your explanation of what is wrong with each point Designer has made in the comment you criticized.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> It only takes one person to go against 100, and still show the truth as she see it. One person saved is worth a million that do not believe.


Do not believe in what, exactly? Compassion for the needy? The rights of the living to have food, clothing, shelter, hope for the future? You make bombastic comments with no substance, just vitriolic rhetoric against those who dare to present viewpoints that differ from yours.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I wish you all the best and hope that those who have been unfair and unkind to you, take a hike. You have been trying to soften the tone here but it has fallen on deaf ears. Don't let anyone ruffle your feathers.


Thanks Huck! have to run - talk to you all later.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> And you are just as nasty, and insulting and foul mouth. You would not know the truth if it was thrown in your face. You are so full of rage and angry towards anyone who does not believe as you do.


Our Purl is a warm and loving person who is comfortable with who she is. You sound jealous of her peace of mind and caring spirit.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your truth is to buddy up to whom ever you want to impress.


Nah, silly. Her truth is to be a genuinely good and kind person. Sounds like something you can't relate to. From my Jewish perspective, Designer is a role model for the true Christian who walks with kindness and charity in her heart.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What is the connection between illegal immigration and abortion? Are you suggesting that we should abort our children so that we can afford to take care of others? Or that we are obligated to provide illegal immigrants with a lifestyle similar to our own? Or was your statement merely antagonistic?


Knitter from Nebraska
please, do not twist my words. Why not care about ALL children beyond birth? This part is always ignored. I truly do not care if a hungry child is legal or illegal, the HUNGER is what concerns me and why not you? I want all people coming here legally but the Republicans are making no effort to straighten out our immigration mess. Go after them and not me. In the meantime let NO-ONE starve.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Nah, silly. Her truth is to be a genuinely good and kind person. Sounds like something you can't relate to. From my Jewish perspective, Designer is a role model for the true Christian who walks with kindness and charity in her heart.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree with you, Designer is not only talented she has a true and genuine heart. I cannot believe that she would wish anyone harm or evil.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought hating people is against your religion, and forgiving is part of it too. Hmmm.


Shirley, we are as known by our enemies as by our friends. You seem to have some pretty cool friends who have seen through you and know you to be talented, wise, and loving.

Your enemies appear to be blinded by some sort of self hate that they cannot accept you, Purl, and the rest of us as pretty decent people who try to make the world a better place for the greater good of the most people. An enemy of my friend is also my enemy.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me. Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


Hey, Sparky, who is spazzing here?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have no problem declaring or discussing my Christianity. Perhaps its because I speak it without condemning others. I try to live my beliefs. I also believe that we can reach more people through example rather than condemnation. I also continuously fight against people making generalities. I chastise them for doing it so I will also chastise you for doing it. Not all liberals are the same, just as not all conservatives are the same. I've been coming on here for months now. Initially I returned insult with insult. No one gained anything, least of all, understanding. When I treat them with respect, they treat me with respect. While we disagree on most things, we're able to carry out a discussion on most things. It saddens me when someone whose beliefs more align with my own, just comes on to stir things up. You don't like when they do it to you, so why do you do it to them? Have your say but do it respectfully or just leave each other alone!


You are such a mench. I wish there were more like you in the world.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

littlebaba said:


> Hello, space here for a witch to get in, like how some of you think


Okay, I'll fire up my besom...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So do you see what you do wrong? Like blast Christians with every breath? How are you such a good person for that? You both are the ones judging me.
> 
> Designer said I am a sorry Christian. You always have said it. I never said I was a good Christian. You just want to throw my faith in my face. I hardly ever post on her because yall go postal. I was talking in general about liberals. Must be your own problem that you took it as I was talking to you. All of you throw slurrs all day but when someone else says something with different opinion than you , you all spaz out.


  You throw your faith in our faces constantly -- yet when we reply you get furious and defensive and then attack.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Shirley, I'm glad you're done with your tests. I hope you get good news!
> 
> I'm just coming off a migraine. This one lasted 24 hours. In the past, they've been 12 hours. I hope its not an omen.


Considering the stresses you have been under, it is not surprising. So glad you are getting over it.

I hope you find some panacea like meditation or just getting out for a walk on a nice day that will help forestall further migraines.

My daughter did some research and has found avoiding foods that restrict blood vessels such as some of the night shades has helped her avoid the migraines she suffered for years. She has become a great believer in diet modification to alleviate issues like the tendency toward migraines.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

*This is not meant to criticize anyone who disagrees with joeysomma or finds her long posts tiresome.* For some reason, periodically I feel compelled to quote joeysomma's post that she made when she started this topic. When any one of you decides to post your disagreement with the long articles she posts, I suggest you remember that she told all of us from the get-go what her intentions were when she started this topic. Agree or disagree, but at least try not to take her to task for doing what you already know she's committed to doing, unless you like to waste your time beating a very long dead horse.

*I know this is a controversial subject and I will be called all sorts of names by the liberals and progressives. I found this article this morning and it needed to be shared. If this will save the life of one baby, all the name calling will be worth it.

It's the Body Count That Counts in the 'War on Women'

With the 40th anniversary of the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision being marked this past week, it might be an auspicious time to check in on that "War on Women."

The phrase was one concocted by liberals during the last presidential election to characterize conservatives and the Republican Party in general.

The notion liberals were trying to convey was that conservatives were trying to pass laws allegedly restricting women's "right to choose," keeping them out of the work force and preventing them from achieving "equality." A couple of loud-mouthed Republican fossils like Rep. Todd Akin didn't help dispel the image.

Because abortion is so central to the Left's idea of feminism, it's appropriate to examine what exactly abortion has accomplished and how feminists' promotion of the industry has affected women.

So let's break this down.

The Left believes:

A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.
A woman should be a slut and be proud of the fact. Numerous liberal groups, including so-called family planning organizations, have taken to promoting "slut pride" campaigns that encourage women to have frequent sex with as many partners as she pleases. The only suggested caveat usually is that she should employ some form of birth control. What they don't advertise is that because of contraception failure rates, the average woman with an active sex life will become pregnant within two years despite using birth control. Encouraging sex with multiple partners also irresponsibly encourages the spread of disease. Most birth control will not stop a disease from being transmitted to a partner, and condoms are only partially effective.
An unborn child is just an inconvenience. The abortion lobby cannot acknowledge the personhood of unborn children because of the moral consequences. They change the vocabulary of the abortion discussiong by using euphemisms such as "fetus" to disguise what's being killed; "health care" to make conceal that abortion is almost never necessary and is physically dangerous to the mother; and "family planning" to cover the fact that what clinics are doing is preventing women from having a family and risking their future fertility to boot.
Abortion "frees" women. After an abortion, a woman won't have to worry about her time being taken up by pregnancy or having a child. She will have to worry about possible medical complications and long-lasting psychological scars. It's one thing to talk about "freedom to choose," but it's another to live with your choices, and choosing abortion comes with a lifetime of guilt and loss.

On the other hand, conservatives believe:
Human life is sacred. While there are cases where an abortion sadly is medically necessary, the vast majority of abortions are elective, and adoption would be a morally better choice. Life is the first right of all people, and adoption gives a child a chance while letting a woman go "free," which abortionists claim is their real goal.
A woman's choice to be a mother is equally as important as pursuing a career, and most wisely made before choosing to engage in sex. The decision to abstain outside of marriage is not only more dignified for a woman and her man, but it is also less physically risky and more conducive to long-term mental health. Married couples raising their children also help build a solid foundation for the community.
An unborn child is a blessing and potentially a boon for society. Children who are born into stable two-parent families are more likely to become contributing members of the community, and any one of them could potentially be the next Einstein or Jefferson.

So in summary, the Left encourages women to sacrifice their health and dignity to the feminist god of abortion. Women are reduced to "lady parts," as so many liberals and their organizations like to put it.

The Right wants women to be wise, healthy, dignified and respected.

While liberals fantasize about conservatives killing women in back alleys, it's the Left that has racked up an actual body count: 55 million since Roe v. Wade, half of those girls.

So who's really waging a war on women? The answer is written in blood.

http://politicaloutcast.com/2014/01/body-count-counts-war-women/#6V8jZJzOPZ0ilY3u.99*


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hey, Sparky, who is spazzing here?


I forgive you too.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't agree with your kind of Christianity. I have a right not to agree -  You throw your faith in our faces constantly -- yet when we reply you get furious and defensive and then attack.
> 
> You jumped into my post and attacked. I was talking to Joey.


I forgive you again. It is under the Blood of Jesus.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> KFN...respectfully, I cannot see a single word that can be described as nasty in that post. Not one! I don't understand your comment at all.


I think part of the problem is that you are tuned to see insults when you think they are aimed at you whether they are or not, and not see that some of the comments you make are barbed insults thrust at others. The lack of empathy you evince is disheartening.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Periodically I feel compelled to quote joeysomma's post that she made when she started this topic. When any one of you decides to post your disagreement with the long articles she posts, I suggest you remember that she told all of us from the get-go what her intentions were when she started this topic. Agree or disagree, but at least try not to take her to task for doing what you already know she's committed to doing, unless you like to waste your time beating a very long dead horse.
> 
> *I know this is a controversial subject and I will be called all sorts of names by the liberals and progressives. I found this article this morning and it needed to be shared. If this will save the life of one baby, all the name calling will be worth it.
> 
> ...


Thank you . You are right. :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

littlebaba said:


> Hello, space here for a witch to get in, like how some of you think


In our multi-faceted little world, the perspective of a Wiccan will only add to the richness of the conversation.

Jump in wherever you like and join the fun.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have no problem declaring or discussing my Christianity. Perhaps its because I speak it without condemning others. I try to live my beliefs. I also believe that we can reach more people through example rather than condemnation. I also continuously fight against people making generalities. I chastise them for doing it so I will also chastise you for doing it. Not all liberals are the same, just as not all conservatives are the same. I've been coming on here for months now. Initially I returned insult with insult. No one gained anything, least of all, understanding. When I treat them with respect, they treat me with respect. While we disagree on most things, we're able to carry out a discussion on most things. It saddens me when someone whose beliefs more align with my own, just comes on to stir things up. You don't like when they do it to you, so why do you do it to them? Have your say but do it respectfully or just leave each other alone!


KFN, it is the Pharisees who stand on the street corners and proclaim their holiness. Mercifully, nobody with sense is buying it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Camacho said:


> My SIL's website is http://mailmaker.tripod.com
> Be careful not to allow "www" into the address, as that will get you something very different. If you get to "Twisted Metal and Broken Glass" you are in the right place. He has not updated it particularly recently.


His chain mail and armor are outstanding. He has done beautiful work.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are judging me. :shock: Also calling me names. I don't have anger until someone starts lying on me. You are the one that is hostile and jumped on me on a general statement about a liberal.


What ever happened to turning the other cheek?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So, why may I ask, do you point out all liberals as being sinners and believing in sin? Believing in a woman's right to choose is no sin.
> Can you honestly say that there are absolutely no conservative women who believe the same and have had abortions themselves? To allocate judgement on an entire political party is not fair. To say that liberals are liberals because they believe in sin is just not right.


Of course it isn't right to call liberals "liberals" because they believe in sin. It's pure nonsense. How does that saying go--"Let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone--"
As a churchgoer once said, "Everyone's a good Christian till they want to get out of the parking lot." Another line from the bible-"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Guess everyone's a liberal now, says so in the bible.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

deleted post


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What ever happened to turning the other cheek?


MaidInBedlam
she has not gotten to that part yet - perhaps in her next life. Shouting Christians are very selective in their reading and application.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I read everything Joeys post. She is very tuned into what is going on. Well educated too.
> The liberals are liberals because they believe in sin and all sin is good to them. No morals. Murder of an innocent baby doesn't bother them. No one should have the right to choose death over life.


If you've cared for a baby born with a terminal disease and a very short life of nothing but pain, then please tell me.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Both of you just hate the truth. Pretty sad.


I'm not too crazy about what you are bleating as truth.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If you are talking to me I don't read your post.


Take the log out of your eye.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you again. It is under the Blood of Jesus.


You do know that lying makes Jesus cry.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Of course it isn't right to call liberals "liberals" because they believe in sin. It's pure nonsense. How does that saying go--"Let (s)he who is without sin cast the first stone--"
> As a churchgoer once said, "Everyone's a good Christian till they want to get out of the parking lot." Another line from the bible-"For all have sinned and falled short of the glory of God." Guess everyone's a liberal now, says so in the bible.


maysmom
you forgot to mention the fight for the special "to be seen" place in Church. Oh those dirty looks are killers when you dare to occupy one of them. Wonder why they have not put the seats up for sale at auction to the highest bidder. Perhaps it is a Tax issue.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> deleted post


Probably saved yourself a headache, Shirley. Love your blue sweater, blue is my favorite color. I treated myself to a bundle of Icelandic unspun wool from Schoolhouse. Yesterday I treated myself to a Kollage square circular needle to use on that yarn. Trying to choose a pattern is tough--so many nice ones. Oh well, those are the choices I prefer!! Have a great day!

(Today is dh's 63rd bd--gotta make him a nice cake!)


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huck, you brought up the aspect of being pro-life that gets to me the most. It seems that the majority of pro-lifers sure do want to get as many babies born as possible, but after that they aren't willing to do the really hard work of making sure those babies needs are met. The birth of a baby, as I'm sure you already know, is only the start of the long, hard work of raising a child.


Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> since you are so concerned about children, GET BUSY and help those unfortunate ones who are fleeing into the arms of our Nation or is bigotry and racism keeping you from caring about those? If so, feed the hungry American children, we have plenty of those that your kind keep ignoring.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

scottishlass said:


> Same here what are we all talking about ?????


scottishlss
jumping in in the middle of a discussion always leads to confusion. You may want to hang around to get the jest of this thread.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Probably saved yourself a headache, Shirley. Love your blue sweater, blue is my favorite color. I treated myself to a bundle of Icelandic unspun wool from Schoolhouse. Yesterday I treated myself to a Kollage square circular needle to use on that yarn. Trying to choose a pattern is tough--so many nice ones. Oh well, those are the choices I prefer!! Have a great day!
> 
> (Today is dh's 63rd bd--gotta make him a nice cake!)
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thank you . You are right. :thumbup:


I edited my post about joeysomma's start of this topic. You might want to go back and see if what I added still meets with your approval.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

littlebaba said:


> Hello, space here for a witch to get in, like how some of you think


Hi, littlebaba, welcome. It's always fun to have you around.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Well Well, *three times* the magic number, same as the Lord.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just got back - niece sang beautifully. The choir was wonderful.


MaysMom -- thanks for the kind words about my blue cardigan

Make sure you let us see it when you get started. Check out the color workshop on the workshop; section below my posts. We have discussed color as well as texture on the workshop after color. Lots of information there. Marilyn and pearl were there. Lots of info. -- 


Here is the work in progress on my second stashbuster sweater for a friend who lives in the North West Territories. It is at the stage where I will start working on the neck and front borders after I finish the bottom. Sleeves will be left alone intil the end, although I am not putting a cuff on as this is a surprise for her and I don't have her arm length. I have a more open neck - more like the blue one. also including pictures of the first stashbuster cardi which I have worn a lot. My own designs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Marie from NC said:


> I'm with Emmy Cat, but still don't understand what this is all about. Probably would help to see original post that prompted this discussion. I usually just pass on posts that don't make sense to me, but this one is the most confusing.





beanscene said:


> I wouldn't really know what to say as you seem to be covering so many issues which I haven't been 'in' on! But for sure you will get the support you need from fellow KP'ers, mostly?!





scottishlass said:


> Same here what are we all talking about ?????


I'll try to help all three of you out, but you have to remember that we're on #13, which means there have been over 1,200 pages of messages. I think what we managed to do is prove that evolution applies to messages on KP.

If you want to see the beginning, it's at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-233288-1.html posted on January 26. Since that time, the anti-choice people have often left the thread to pro-choice women, who have just let their minds float free, so there's a lot of personal stuff, historical and/or political and/or economic stuff, and a few people have made some new friends.

It's never been about knitting, though even that subject has come up. You're welcome to stick around if you'd like, but I don't know whether it's worth the time.

Oh, and every once in a while the original poster posts an anti-choice message.


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll try to help all three of you out, but you have to remember that we're on #13, which means there have been over 1,200 pages of messages. I think what we managed to do is prove that evolution applies to messages on KP.
> 
> If you want to see the beginning, it's at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-233288-1.html posted on January 26. Since that time, the anti-choice people have often left the thread to pro-choice women, who have just let their minds float free, so there's a lot of personal stuff, historical and/or political and/or economic stuff, and a few people have made some new friends.
> 
> ...


Poor Purl: Thank you ever so much for the clarification of what has been going on. I've read just a few of the posts here and there hoping to figure out what was going on. I'm afraid that I am so diappointed in all the nastiness and name calling going on. I can't believe it.....now that I know what it's all about, I can stop reading these posts.


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll try to help all three of you out, but you have to remember that we're on #13, which means there have been over 1,200 pages of messages. I think what we managed to do is prove that evolution applies to messages on KP.
> 
> If you want to see the beginning, it's at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-233288-1.html posted on January 26. Since that time, the anti-choice people have often left the thread to pro-choice women, who have just let their minds float free, so there's a lot of personal stuff, historical and/or political and/or economic stuff, and a few people have made some new friends.
> 
> ...


Poor Purl: Thank you ever so much for the clarification of what has been going on. I've read just a few of the posts here and there hoping to figure out what was going on. I'm afraid that I am so diappointed in all the nastiness and name calling going on. I can't believe it.....now that I know what it's all about, I can stop reading these posts.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Just got back - niece sang beautifully. The choir was wonderful.
> 
> MaysMom -- thanks for the kind words about my blue cardigan
> 
> ...


Very nice, Shirley! Beats my tired old stash-busting afghans.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Or go to page 23 of this topic where I re-posted joeysomma's post that started this topic.


Poor Purl said:


> I'll try to help all three of you out, but you have to remember that we're on #13, which means there have been over 1,200 pages of messages. I think what we managed to do is prove that evolution applies to messages on KP.
> 
> If you want to see the beginning, it's at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-233288-1.html posted on January 26. Since that time, the anti-choice people have often left the thread to pro-choice women, who have just let their minds float free, so there's a lot of personal stuff, historical and/or political and/or economic stuff, and a few people have made some new friends.
> 
> ...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Every once in awhile - we get ourselves into trouble before we know it. Some strong feelings here and there. 

You arrived at a time like that . 

Hopefully it will be a bit more pleasant. Not much in the way of Knitting and Crochet here although we are supportive of each other's efforts.

SL I enjoy your posts.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you for coming after me. God Bless you.


There goes your paranoia or whatever your problem is again. Nebraska doesn't need your forgiveness. She has done nothing that needs forgiveness, unless it is that she is a true Christian who lives up to her ideals and makes some who profess to be such but are hypocrites look bad. Not her fault if some people are small minded and think the worst in every situation. Indeed G-d will bless her for her honest spirit.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Just got back - niece sang beautifully. The choir was wonderful.
> 
> MaysMom -- thanks for the kind words about my blue cardigan
> 
> ...


Love that you brought texture into the mix along with an imaginative use of color. Charcoal is a superior background for the color mix you are using.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you in Jesus Name.


Country Bumpkin
you need to read the part of the Bible where it said: "thou shalt not use my name in vain........" (close enough). You are abusing it, don't you think?


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think part of the problem is that you are tuned to see insults when you think they are aimed at you whether they are or not, and not see that some of the comments you make are barbed insults thrust at others. The lack of empathy you evince is disheartening.


The issue has been resolved, Marilyn. Move along!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> KFN...respectfully, I cannot see a single word that can be described as nasty in that post. Not one! I don't understand your comment at all.


As in most sentences, there is no *single* word that is nasty, just some phrases and sentences.

Country Bumpkins wrote:
"No you lied on me . I never said I didn't forgive you. You made that up. You lied and said I said things to SQM that I did not. You even said it on Loll. You are not seeing things clearly. Maybe it is your meds." That last sentence is not meant to be nasty?

This whole incident was about not a lie, but something CB had said a few weeks earlier that accidentally got read and referred to now.

But since CB is among the Obama-hating group, you may not see anything she says as insulting. Interesting blind spot your entire group has.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Joey, I think you are very intelligent and I applaud you for your voracious stance against abortion. However, your persistence in publishing these articles (which provokes such negative feedback) makes me wonder whether you are practicing a designed campaign (not too dissimilar) to Amway, to procure more followers?
> 
> Why else would you do this? It doesn't make sense. You have behaved this way on this thread countless times and ALWAYS you receive the same negative responses. And those responses have never swayed you. You can't be that black and white surely? Why are you so intent on beating a dead horse?
> 
> ...


I disagree with the assumptions you've made Wombat. Joey started this thread to present a pro-life pov; other posters have taken it in many different directions, which is their prerogative. But rather than questioning the motivation of those who took the thread off topic, you have put a dark interpretation on Joey's efforts to put it back on topic. You have also chosen to overlook the many personal attacks on Joey and her motivations.

When someone sincerely believes that a moral injustice is taking place, they will continue to work towards resolving it. Many things have been legal in the past, but when enough people became aware of the injustice, laws were changed. Joey and other pro-life advocates are working to increase the awareness of the human cost of abortion, thereby decreasing the number of abortions.

From what I've heard and read, there are very few people who feel comfortable with the extreme end of either side of the abortion debate. There are times when very difficult medical options need to be considered. But there are also times when the choice comes down to anxiety, fear, gender, inconvenience - all of which can be supported without the death of a child.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Critique your own, Dame! Oh wait, you can't because her posts get deleted every night.
> 
> Feel better now...all puffed up and self-important?


No wonder you can't see where CB is being nasty. You don't seem to perceive that quality in your own writing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> It seems that you are admitting that you view that bumpkin as nasty and insulting. Thank you for that.


Right, she says I'm just as nasty. But at least I don't try to fool everyone into thinking I'm an angel.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> No wonder you can't see where CB is being nasty. You don't seem to perceive that quality in your own writing.


I forgive you again. God bless you in your coming and goings.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the "maybe its your meds" comment I was referring to. You see nothing nasty about that? I do!


Good for you for standing up for yourself, even though it means I wasted my time doing it for you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What ever happened to turning the other cheek?


I forgive you too.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Take the log out of your eye.


Thank you for your advise. I forgive you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Good for you for standing up for yourself, even though it means I wasted my time doing it for you.


Blessing in the Name of the Lord. I forgive you again.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> No wonder you can't see where CB is being nasty. You don't seem to perceive that quality in your own writing.


Forgiven again.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> You do know that lying makes Jesus cry.


. Jesus loves me so I can't make him cry. No weapon formed against me shall proper. God Bless you this Sunday.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> My SIL's website is http://mailmaker.tripod.com
> Be careful not to allow "www" into the address, as that will get you something very different. If you get to "Twisted Metal and Broken Glass" you are in the right place. He has not updated it particularly recently.


His work is impressive. I love medieval art, and there's so much there. That bustier is gorgeous, but there seems to be a dragon's head on page 1 that needs to be shown in full. Thank you for this peek into his creativity.

And his wedding announcement was wonderful, too.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Right, she says I'm just as nasty. But at least I don't try to fool everyone into thinking I'm an angel.


Forgiven!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know either. I think we just go daft sometimes.



Marie from NC said:


> I'm with Emmy Cat, but still don't understand what this is all about. Probably would help to see original post that prompted this discussion. I usually just pass on posts that don't make sense to me, but this one is the most confusing.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Good for you for standing up for yourself, even though it means I wasted my time doing it for you.


Purl, I don't think it is ever a waste of time to stand up for something or some one in which you believe, even if you are part of a chorus. Your words are worth your expressing them and are meaningful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

New people are always welcome. Just be polite and open-minded. You may be able to introduce new thought and help keep us all on target.



beanscene said:


> I wouldn't really know what to say as you seem to be covering so many issues which I haven't been 'in' on! But for sure you will get the support you need from fellow KP'ers, mostly?!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> So now I am a liar. You made it clear yesterday what you think of me - over and over and over. You know what you meant and so do I. however lets leave it that the remark was meant with kindness - about my meds. You know if it was - and I have a good idea whether it was or not. It isn't worth fighting about.


How diplomatic you are, Shirley. An adult trying to teach a child how to behave. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Open a new thread and tell us about it, or just jump in here. The key is to be polite and open-minded and you'll find new friends.



scottishlass said:


> Same here what are we all talking about ?????


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How diplomatic you are, Shirley. An adult trying to teach a child how to behave. :thumbup: :thumbup:


God Bless . Getting close to 70X7. :lol: Forgiven.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How diplomatic you are, Shirley. An adult trying to teach a child how to behave. :thumbup: :thumbup:


She is old enough to be my mother.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Purl, I don't think it is ever a waste of time to stand up for something or some one in which you believe, even if you are part of a chorus. Your words are worth your expressing them and are meaningful.


Yes it is only a waste of time if you are a rightie. If you are a lefter you can say whatever you want and have all the lefters agree with you. Have a good day. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the "maybe its your meds" comment I was referring to. You see nothing nasty about that? I do!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Forgiveness goes to the DAME! You go girl.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Forgiven again.


Bumpsy, what is the value of forgiveness given in a snide tone?

How many people have solicited your forgiveness?

Should we take a vote to see how many of us you have "forgiven" see any sincerity in the sentiment

Don't bother "forgiving" me. I don't think I have said anything that needs forgiveness.

But I forgive you your attitude. Obviously you have been brain washed all your life to believe in certain narrow parameters and don't know better.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's not for everyone. Like most everything else.



beanscene said:


> Blimey, one to stay well out of methinks!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> The issue has been resolved, Marilyn. Move along!


Sheesh! Who died and made you King? or Queen? The issue hasn't been resolved at all. Only someone who was blind to what was said in the first place would think that.

So please move along. (I'll treat you politely though you haven't done so yourself)


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have had enough of this stuff. Every person has a right to her own religion (or not) her own beliefs, her own privacy. Time for me to "unwatch" and regain some of my time for other things.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Vancouver sounds lovely. Thinking good thoughts and sending them your way.



Designer1234 said:


> Thanks KFN. the remark was a bit nasty, as I am and have been taking medical tests for this past full month. To be expected though. I am on meds but not the kind that cause you to
> lose it.
> 
> One more big test and then appointments to find out what if anything is wrong. I just finished the last heart test yesterday and as I haven't heard back from any of them I hope everything is okay there. The people who gave me the echo and the perfusion stress test told me I would hear right away if there was anything too serious that needed immediate attention -I haven't heard anything so -- no news is good news in this case.
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Bumpsy, what is the value of forgiveness given in a snide tone?
> 
> How many people have solicited your forgiveness?
> 
> ...


I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For the record, coming after you is not the same as calling you when you are out of line. IMHO



Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you for coming after me. God Bless you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you again. God bless you in your coming and goings.


You forgive me???!!! For what? For pointing out how nasty and hypocritical you are? For that _mea culpa_, but it's not your place to forgive me, and I don't forgive you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Thanks for the reminder.



Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> since you are so concerned about children, GET BUSY and help those unfortunate ones who are fleeing into the arms of our Nation or is bigotry and racism keeping you from caring about those? If so, feed the hungry American children, we have plenty of those that your kind keep ignoring.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is old enough to be my mother.


Exactly. She's an adult trying to teach a child (you) how to behave. You have no respect for your elders, have you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What in heaven's name are you talking about? Look, if you're just trying to say you don't like me, say it! That would be an honest opinion. Don't try to invent things you say are 'talking bad about you.' If I ever let you have it, you'll know it.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you for talking bad about me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Bumpsy, what is the value of forgiveness given in a snide tone?
> 
> How many people have solicited your forgiveness?
> 
> ...


Okay, maybe I should forgive her, too. But there's no point in forgiveness if the forgivee is going to commit the same wrong again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you for calling me a liar and a hypocrite. In Jesus Name.


I see Jesus and I both agree. God bless.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Exactly. She's an adult trying to teach a child (you) how to behave. You have no respect for your elders, have you?


Forgiven again. I am getting the hang on this forgiveness. I am free! :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have had enough of this stuff. Every person has a right to her own religion (or not) her own beliefs, her own privacy. Time for me to "unwatch" and regain some of my time for other things.


You may be younger than me, but you're far wiser. I can't tear myself away.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

CB makes a generalization about liberals and liberal views of abortion and it seems to generate way too many pages to read of generalizations and personal attacks. This after weeks of negative generalizations about Christians and conservatives in this thread and several personal attacks on CB and Joey???


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me.


You only think He did. He's much smarter than that.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You only think He did. He's much smarter than that.


I know He did. :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Forgiven again. I am getting the hang on this forgiveness. I am free! :thumbup:


You may not be free, but cheap is close enough.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know He did. :thumbup:


How? Did He whisper it in your ear?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> CB makes a generalization about liberals and liberal views of abortion and it seems to generate way too many pages to read of generalizations and personal attacks. This after weeks of negative generalizations about Christians and conservatives in this thread and several personal attacks on CB and Joey???


It is okay WCK they don't understand . They are not seeing in the spirit. It is not us they are fighting but the Lord. They are deceived by the doctrine of demons. Father lead them to the Truth. Satan is the prince and power of the air so they don't realize who the fight is with. I forgive them for not knowing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe those statements are not contradictory.

Abortion has been legal for many years, and in the opinion of most people, it is a private matter between patient and physician.

Basic human goodness demands that we do what we can to provide for those in need.

I see nothing antagonistic. Please rethink and reply. You don't have to share the opinions. Just respect others right to those opinions.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What is the connection between illegal immigration and abortion? Are you suggesting that we should abort our children so that we can afford to take care of others? Or that we are obligated to provide illegal immigrants with a lifestyle similar to our own? Or was your statement merely antagonistic?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is okay WCK they don't understand . They are not seeing in the spirit. It is not us they are fighting but the Lord. They are deceived by the doctrine of demons. Father lead them to the Truth. Satan is the prince and power of the air so they don't realize who the fight is with. I forgive them for not knowing.


Do you know how loony you sound?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Marilynknits. Well put. Your passion shows, and that's a good thing in my opinion.



MarilynKnits said:


> Do you even *know* any liberals as fellow human beings? Or are you in such an insulated little conservative cocoon that you only communicate with people with your own narrow and bigoted perspective on life. Of course there are liberals whose morals I would not praise. But from what I have seen the sins of amorality spewed by some of the bastions of conservatism are worse.
> 
> A person can sin on a personal level, depending on how one views sin, by cohabiting with another consenting adult. Some would cast stones, others would say that they are adults and let them live their lives.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is very sad that you are so deluded that you can only see your own truth. We are not the haters. We are saddened that someone who apparently has a decent level of intelligence does not have the human qualities of empathy and compassion. We pity rather than hate.


 :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me these comments ask the important questions. I would love to make sense of this.



MarilynKnits said:


> Do not believe in what, exactly? Compassion for the needy? The rights of the living to have food, clothing, shelter, hope for the future? You make bombastic comments with no substance, just vitriolic rhetoric against those who dare to present viewpoints that differ from yours.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Nah, silly. Her truth is to be a genuinely good and kind person. Sounds like something you can't relate to. From my Jewish perspective, Designer is a role model for the true Christian who walks with kindness and charity in her heart.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And that's from me and my Catholic upbringing POV.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> please, do not twist my words. Why not care about ALL children beyond birth? This part is always ignored. I truly do not care if a hungry child is legal or illegal, the HUNGER is what concerns me and why not you? I want all people coming here legally but the Republicans are making no effort to straighten out our immigration mess. Go after them and not me. In the meantime let NO-ONE starve.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I hear my Grandmother's words. No one went hungry when she was around. No questions asked. That's the way I was raised and that is the way I'll die.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Shirley, we are as known by our enemies as by our friends. You seem to have some pretty cool friends who have seen through you and know you to be talented, wise, and loving.
> 
> Your enemies appear to be blinded by some sort of self hate that they cannot accept you, Purl, and the rest of us as pretty decent people who try to make the world a better place for the greater good of the most people. An enemy of my friend is also my enemy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hey, Sparky, who is spazzing here?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I have had enough of this stuff. Every person has a right to her own religion (or not) her own beliefs, her own privacy. Time for me to "unwatch" and regain some of my time for other things.


Sorry that you will unwatch this weird topic, I am, mostly, and starting my Christmas presents, hoping I have enough time to get them done. If you are making Christmas presents, I hope you have enough time, too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cat and broomstick ready to go.



maysmom said:


> Okay, I'll fire up my besom...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And this is a free and open forum. All opinions welcome. there are many half-truths and exaggerations in joey's post that should be answered.



MaidInBedlam said:


> *This is not meant to criticize anyone who disagrees with joeysomma or finds her long posts tiresome.* For some reason, periodically I feel compelled to quote joeysomma's post that she made when she started this topic. When any one of you decides to post your disagreement with the long articles she posts, I suggest you remember that she told all of us from the get-go what her intentions were when she started this topic. Agree or disagree, but at least try not to take her to task for doing what you already know she's committed to doing, unless you like to waste your time beating a very long dead horse.
> 
> *I know this is a controversial subject and I will be called all sorts of names by the liberals and progressives. I found this article this morning and it needed to be shared. If this will save the life of one baby, all the name calling will be worth it.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO it is this tendency that leads to much of the dispute in this thread.



MarilynKnits said:


> I think part of the problem is that you are tuned to see insults when you think they are aimed at you whether they are or not, and not see that some of the comments you make are barbed insults thrust at others. The lack of empathy you evince is disheartening.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Which cheek?



MaidInBedlam said:


> What ever happened to turning the other cheek?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is one of my main concerns also.



maysmom said:


> If you've cared for a baby born with a terminal disease and a very short life of nothing but pain, then please tell me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> you forgot to mention the fight for the special "to be seen" place in Church. Oh those dirty looks are killers when you dare to occupy one of them. Wonder why they have not put the seats up for sale at auction to the highest bidder. Perhaps it is a Tax issue.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> And this is a free and open forum. All opinions welcome. there are many half-truths and exaggerations in joey's post that should be answered.


Of course. I hope discussions here will be as free and open as possible. Like I said, sometimes I feel compelled to quote joeysomma's original post that started this topic. I think I'm probably doing that so I won't go all postal at her long, copy and paste posts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And my other concern is using only perfect healthy infants in the anti-abortion tracts. Some are doomed to a short and painful non-life before they are born.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Huck, you brought up the aspect of being pro-life that gets to me the most. It seems that the majority of pro-lifers sure do want to get as many babies born as possible, but after that they aren't willing to do the really hard work of making sure those babies needs are met. The birth of a baby, as I'm sure you already know, is only the start of the long, hard work of raising a child.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dream on. And we're not just talking about age here, but rather maturity.

Can't see any reason to forgive you.



Country Bumpkins said:


> She is old enough to be my mother.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Bumpsy, what is the value of forgiveness given in a snide tone?
> 
> How many people have solicited your forgiveness?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Sheesh! Who died and made you King? or Queen? The issue hasn't been resolved at all. Only someone who was blind to what was said in the first place would think that.
> 
> So please move along. (I'll treat you politely though you haven't done so yourself)


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least you're sorry.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You forgive me???!!! For what? For pointing out how nasty and hypocritical you are? For that _mea culpa_, but it's not your place to forgive me, and I don't forgive you.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I know he didn't.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I know He did. :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You may not be free, but cheap is close enough.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering and singing....cause the bible tells me so.>>>>>



Poor Purl said:


> How? Did He whisper it in your ear?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you know how loony you sound?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I need to finish lace shawl for October niece's wedding.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Sorry that you will unwatch this weird topic, I am, mostly, and starting my Christmas presents, hoping I have enough time to get them done. If you are making Christmas presents, I hope you have enough time, too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> - - - - - I am free! :thumbup:


Congrats, they let you out. Make the most of it by being honestly pleasant.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> At least you're sorry.


Dame.........I think I am reading CB's post a bit differently than you.......she is sorry she must forgive you, not that she wants to........JMO


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Dame.........I think I am reading CB's post a bit differently than you.......she is sorry she must forgive you, not that she wants to........JMO


Now now. I said I forgave her .


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now now. I said I forgave her .


from page 28 CB said "I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me", just gave an opinion on my interpretation of what you said.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Time to take a break. My "Knitting for a Cause" group is gearing up to make as many hats as we can for the Click for Babies project. They are addressing the issue of infant abuse and shaken baby syndrome, trying to raise awareness and help prevent the deaths and permanent damage some of these poor helpless children suffer.

We meet on Wednesday afternoon and I want to get at least a couple of hats done by then.

http://www.clickforbabies.org/


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> <<<whispering and singing....cause the bible tells me so.>>>>>


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Dame.........I think I am reading CB's post a bit differently than you.......she is sorry she must forgive you, not that she wants to........JMO


Yes, Cindy, that's how I read it, too.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Very nice, Shirley! Beats my tired old stash-busting afghans.


I bet your afghans are wonderful.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do you even *know* any liberals as fellow human beings? Or are you in such an insulated little conservative cocoon that you only communicate with people with your own narrow and bigoted perspective on life. Of course there are liberals whose morals I would not praise. But from what I have seen the sins of amorality spewed by some of the bastions of conservatism are worse.
> 
> A person can sin on a personal level, depending on how one views sin, by cohabiting with another consenting adult. Some would cast stones, others would say that they are adults and let them live their lives.
> 
> ...


Somehow I missed these few pages first time around, but I'm glad I got the chance to read this. Thanks for laying it all out so clearly.

"So don't go spewing your cold heartless rhetoric that shows you to be a cold heartless person. You appear to be pickled in venom" is good advice but is doomed either to be ignored or misunderstood.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> No wonder you can't see where CB is being nasty. You don't seem to perceive that quality in your own writing.


Au contraire, my snarkies are ALWAYS intentional!

Perhaps you have no control over yourself and yours sneak out unbidden?

;-)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was just being a smartypants. Me bad.



Cindy S said:


> Dame.........I think I am reading CB's post a bit differently than you.......she is sorry she must forgive you, not that she wants to........JMO


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And your 'forgiveness means nothing.' You only extend it to annoy. Save it.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Now now. I said I forgave her .


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> I was just being a smartypants. Me bad.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No good deed goes unpunished. See why she brings out the worst in me? I'll try to get a grip.



Cindy S said:


> from page 28 CB said "I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me", just gave an opinion on my interpretation of what you said.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mine are always witty and well-targeted.



Gerslay said:


> Au contraire, my snarkies are ALWAYS intentional!
> 
> Perhaps you have no control over yourself and yours sneak out unbidden?
> 
> ;-)


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> And your 'forgiveness means nothing.' You only extend it to annoy. Save it.


I forgive you too.I'll even post a song for you.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lu5udXEZI


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What do you mean 'too?'



Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you too.I'll even post a song for you.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1Lu5udXEZI


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> Mine are always witty and well-targeted.


My original point proven...you're puffed up and self important!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Au contraire, my snarkies are ALWAYS intentional!
> 
> Perhaps you have no control over yourself and yours sneak out unbidden?
> 
> ;-)


Perhaps, though I think I'm well aware of them, whenever they "sneak out." But I don't hold myself up to be a good Christian, as you do. My snark is simply snark; yours is hypocrisy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Mine are always witty and well-targeted.


Yes, they certainly are.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Somehow I missed these few pages first time around, but I'm glad I got the chance to read this. Thanks for laying it all out so clearly.
> 
> "So don't go spewing your cold heartless rhetoric that shows you to be a cold heartless person. You appear to be pickled in venom" is good advice but is doomed either to be ignored or misunderstood.


Or else I will get the usual whine that I am picking on her.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Perhaps, though I think I'm well aware of them, whenever they "sneak out." But I don't hold myself up to be a good Christian, as you do. My snark is simply snark; yours is hypocrisy.


I thought you didn't bash Christians?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I wish I lived closer Marilyn - I just read your link. I would be happy to knit for a project like this. hmm. I wonder if we have one up here. I have done knitting for flood relief all last year, and 7 of my US friends from KP sent me scarves, hats, cowls, mittens . It was wonderful. We gavethem out after the terrible flood we had last year. very satisfying.



MarilynKnits said:


> Time to take a break. My "Knitting for a Cause" group is gearing up to make as many hats as we can for the Click for Babies project. They are addressing the issue of infant abuse and shaken baby syndrome, trying to raise awareness and help prevent the deaths and permanent damage some of these poor helpless children suffer.
> 
> We meet on Wednesday afternoon and I want to get at least a couple of hats done by then.
> 
> http://www.clickforbabies.org/


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> My original point proven...you're puffed up and self important!


From the queen of puffed up. Is that supposed to be a compliment?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I thought you didn't bash Christians?


Neither of us do. Just sanctimonious fools who are an embarrassment to Christians who are truly G-dly people. I have known too many people who hover behind a curtain of professed Christianity while acting in a most unChristian manner. And before you go all saintly on me, I am sure Purl knows as many Jews as I who profess religiosity but do not live a life that reflects behaving as honorable Jews should. You get some in every crowd.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> My original point proven...you're puffed up and self important!


Your humor deficiency makes you see self-importance where it doesn't exist. Try looking in the mirror instead.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I thought about the many comments on this thread, while I was in Church this morning. I want to share a verse that was brought to mind:
> 
> _12 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you._ Matthew 5:11-12 (NKJV)


Thanks Joeys! :thumbup: ♥


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> What do you mean 'too?'


She means she has forgiven a goodly portion of KP. Certainly all of us. We are so lucky Dame. I am a special recipient, even though I don't want or need her forgiveness.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> She means she has forgiven a goodly portion of KP. Certainly all of us. We are so lucky Dame.


So now you are not wanting my forgiveness? Make up your mind. I did it for you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps, though I think I'm well aware of them, whenever they "sneak out." But I don't hold myself up to be a good Christian, as you do. My snark is simply snark; yours is hypocrisy.
> ...


Where's the "bashing"? It wasn't her Christianity I took exception to; it's the fact that she doesn't live up to it.

Or do you think that every time I point out hypocrisy in a Christian, that's bashing?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

CB-changed my mind not interested in your forgiveness or even a conversation.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Where's the "bashing"? It wasn't her Christianity I took exception to; it's the fact that she doesn't live up to it.
> 
> Or do you think that every time I point out hypocrisy in a Christian, that's bashing?


I am a Christian and I agree l00% with you Purl.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Or else I will get the usual whine that I am picking on her.


That's true. She even hovers over LOLL waiting to see whether anyone mentions her, then claims we all lie about her.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Neither of us do. Just sanctimonious fools who are an embarrassment to Christians who are truly G-dly people. I have known too many people who hover behind a curtain of professed Christianity while acting in a most unChristian manner. And before you go all saintly on me, I am sure Purl knows as many Jews as I who profess religiosity but do not live a life that reflects behaving as honorable Jews should. You get some in every crowd.


You find them everywhere. I don't think either of you fit into that category. You are both people I am happy to call friends and I wish we lived closer so we could have aget together with the others.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I thought about the many comments on this thread, while I was in Church this morning. I want to share a verse that was brought to mind:
> 
> _12 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you._ Matthew 5:11-12 (NKJV)


This is what I should have said when CB made her lying statement about liberals. Thank you, Joey.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am a Christian and I agree l00% with you Purl.


Obviously your Christianity isn't hypocritical. Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can be funny.



Gerslay said:


> My original point proven...you're puffed up and self important!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you. You're so perceptive.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, they certainly are.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is just disgusting! You seem to take great pleasure in hurting other people! Why don't you just go away?


Just saw this trash, and I agree with you - sockpuppet is truly out of line on any forum with this kind of foul talk.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do not want your forgiveness. There was never any doubt.



Country Bumpkins said:


> So now you are not wanting my forgiveness? Make up your mind. I did it for you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Just saw this trash, and I agree with you - sockpuppet is truly out of line on any forum with this kind of foul talk.


 :thumbup: I agree - She doesn't speak for 99%of us as far as I can gather, certainly not me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I just refused forgiveness from CB myself. Let's see if it works.



Designer1234 said:


> changed my mind not interested in your forgiveness or even a conversation.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Just saw this trash, and I agree with you - sockpuppet is truly out of line on any forum with this kind of foul talk.


Agreed, Bonnie.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Joeysomma, I stand with you in your defense of life. If one child's life is saved, it IS indeed worth the effort. Thank you for all the time you've put in on this and for your posts, especially those showing the premature babies who are old enough to be aborted but who were saved.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Just saw this trash, and I agree with you - sockpuppet is truly out of line on any forum with this kind of foul talk.


Would you say the same if Sockpuppet is Lisa?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Obviously your Christianity isn't hypocritical. Thank you.


I don't usually feel it necessary to shout it from the roof tops.

I am not the 'correct ' kind from the sounds of things.

Anyway, I am weary (I am old enough to be someone's mother too, and this conversation finally got to me. I am going to go and read a murder mystery to make me feel better :lol: :lol: ;-)

I will see you all later - Take care.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Would you say the same if Sockpuppet is Lisa?


Why not?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Which cheek?


Any and/or all 4 of them.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Gersly's picture is true! My grand babies looked like that, only a little skinnier.


Of course the pictures are true. Sockpuppet WANTS them to be doctored photos because they show a truth that sockpuppet does not want to acknowledge.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why not?


Agreed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't usually feel it necessary to shout it from the roof tops.
> 
> I am not the 'correct ' kind from the sounds of things.
> 
> ...


Shirley, You are very much the correct kind. You see, a CINO will beat the bible to death, shout out their belief to everyone whether they want to hear it or not and then turn around and behave like no real Christian would. You are not that kind of Christian.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why not?


Hi My Precious Little Brat,

I am confused about where Lisa, et al, fits in the minds of others. It is closing in on the time when she emerges.

Come out, come out.
Wherever you are.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi My Precious Little Brat,
> 
> I am confused about where Lisa, et al, fits in the minds of others. It is closing in on the time when she emerges.
> 
> ...


To be perfectly honest, I don't care if she never showed up again. But it seems to be the trend that if anyone new posts here, the right get all riled up and call her Lisa. Maybe we should all change our names to Lisa 1 Lisa 2, etc. Then there would be no more inane speculation.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Would you say the same if Sockpuppet is Lisa?


 Yes, I certainly would. And I believe Sockpuppet (aka sckppt) IS lisa.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, I certainly would. And I believe Sockpuppet (aka sckppt) IS lisa.


Mais oui!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Shirley, You are very much the correct kind. You see, a CINO will beat the bible to death, shout out their belief to everyone whether they want to hear it or not and then turn around and behave like no real Christian would. You are not that kind of Christian.


I was raised in that type of situation -- that is why I am not and 
hearing the statements brings back unhappy thoughts and worse, feelings. I lived it for the first part of my life. I couldn't sleep last night and don't plan on lying awake again tonight.

Thanks Brat -- I appreciate your kind words and those of all the rest. I am sorry about the mess that went on here last night and today. Now it is followed over to NB -- I think it best if I just get off the forum for a few hours. Not leaving - just taking tonight off unless I find I cant. (no promises.).. grin.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mais oui!


I am not sure but then that is what she wants. I find her to be too much. Whoever she is.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I was raised in that type of situation -- that is why I am not and
> hearing the statements brings back unhappy thoughts and worse, feelings. I lived it for the first part of my life. I couldn't sleep last night and don't plan on lying awake again tonight.
> 
> Thanks Brat -- I appreciate your kind words and those of all the rest. I am sorry about the mess that went on here last night and today. Now it is followed over to NB -- I think it best if I just get off the forum for a few hours. Not leaving - just taking tonight off unless I find I cant. (no promises.).. grin.


Ms. Shirley - Is this forum worth your losing sleep over? I think not. Nothing stated here is of any long lasting significance. Take this as a place to hang out when you have a moment.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I think we need to put sockpuppet and Gerslay in a rink and let them duke it out. Then maybe we can get back to some really significant discussions. The thread has been absolutely awful for the last 2 days.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is old enough to be my mother.


Country Bumpkins
glad you announce your immaturity to the world.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> And my other concern is using only perfect healthy infants in the anti-abortion tracts. Some are doomed to a short and painful non-life before they are born.


You're right. Some babies that are born deserve to have been granted the blessing of being miscarriages. My parents had a son who was born in 1953 and only lived for 10 weeks. He was very, very, severely disabled. My parents were permanently changed and they had to internalize their grief so they could move ahead in life. Their greatest consolation was that their son died instead of being condemned to a life that he wouldn't even have been aware of.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> glad you announce your immaturityto the world.


I forgive you too Ingried. XX


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Joeysomma, I stand with you in your defense of life. If one child's life is saved, it IS indeed worth the effort. Thank you for all the time you've put in on this and for your posts, especially those showing the premature babies who are old enough to be aborted but who were saved.


bonbf3
so why not also save those who are crying for food and health care!!!!! You seem to have a limit on age for caring. How sad.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Where's the "bashing"? It wasn't her Christianity I took exception to; it's the fact that she doesn't live up to it.
> 
> Or do you think that every time I point out hypocrisy in a Christian, that's bashing?


Poor Purl
you see, Christian teaching has bypassed her and therefore she does not understand the difference.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Any and/or all 4 of them.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> To be perfectly honest, I don't care if she never showed up again. But it seems to be the trend that if anyone new posts here, the right get all riled up and call her Lisa. Maybe we should all change our names to Lisa 1 Lisa 2, etc. Then there would be no more inane speculation.


I think if we just didn't bite when she wants us to -- (I am a great one for saying 'don't allow ourselves to be baited' sheesh shirley.Anyway , there is nothing we can do- I let her bait me last night. Sad to have to be on guard for nastiness from those who are supposed to agree with us.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Shirley, You are very much the correct kind. You see, a CINO will beat the bible to death, shout out their belief to everyone whether they want to hear it or not and then turn around and behave like no real Christian would. You are not that kind of Christian.


Bratty Patty
may I please lift the cloud and declare Shirley a Christan and her opponents impersonators.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO "Lisa" represents a POV not an individual. Am I right?



SQM said:


> Hi My Precious Little Brat,
> 
> I am confused about where Lisa, et al, fits in the minds of others. It is closing in on the time when she emerges.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Exactly. "Lisa" is a POV not an individual. To be honest, I agree with some, but not all of her statements.....not different from most people. I'm sure I could sound like "Lisa" if I tried.



BrattyPatty said:


> To be perfectly honest, I don't care if she never showed up again. But it seems to be the trend that if anyone new posts here, the right get all riled up and call her Lisa. Maybe we should all change our names to Lisa 1 Lisa 2, etc. Then there would be no more inane speculation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry for the loss your family suffered.



MaidInBedlam said:


> You're right. Some babies that are born deserve to have been granted the blessing of being miscarriages. My parents had a son who was born in 1953 and only lived for 10 weeks. He was very, very, severely disabled. My parents were permanently changed and they had to internalize their grief so they could move ahead in life. Their greatest consolation was that their son died instead of being condemned to a life that he wouldn't even have been aware of.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sure it means as much to her as it does to me.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you too Ingried. XX


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hear. Hear. Me too...or three.



Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> may I please lift the cloud and declare Shirley a Christan and her opponents impersonators.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I think if we just didn't bite when she wants us to -- (I am a great one for saying 'don't allow ourselves to be baited' sheesh shirley.Anyway , there is nothing we can do- I let her bait me last night. Sad to have to be on guard for nastiness from those who are supposed to agree with us.


Designer1234
How much I wish you could share my outlook on them, they NEVER bother me at all, no matter what they say - I find them so irrelevant.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I thought about the many comments on this thread, while I was in Church this morning. I want to share a verse that was brought to mind:
> 
> _12 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you._ Matthew 5:11-12 (NKJV)


joeysomma
once I have proof from a reliable source that Heaven exists, I may buy into these yet hollow words.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I wish I lived closer Marilyn - I just read your link. I would be happy to knit for a project like this. hmm. I wonder if we have one up here. I have done knitting for flood relief all last year, and 7 of my US friends from KP sent me scarves, hats, cowls, mittens . It was wonderful. We gavethem out after the terrible flood we had last year. very satisfying.


I clicked on the site and see that there is a coordinator British Columbia. Is that a convenient location to which to send items? The contact is:

Prevent SBS BC
Claire Yamboa
604-875-2000, ext. 5100
[email protected]


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm sure it means as much to her as it does to me.


damemary
who is Ingried? Sounds like some goddess to some here. What is her name to fame?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Since you don't know what it is to raise a severely disabled child, I suggest you refrain from posting anything like the item you posted below. God's eye is not always on every sparrow. Sometimes some of his children are so disabled at birth that death is the mercy they most deserve.


joeysomma said:


> There were questions about raising a child with physical problems. I have not. I will provide articles about people who have. If I had to make that choice, if I did not give the child every chance to survive, I know I would regret it the rest of my life. Every child is a gift nf God and that child would be my gift. I would trust God that there is a reason.
> 
> Baby Died Five Years After Botched Abortion, Injections in Her Head Failed
> 
> ...


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Perhaps, though I think I'm well aware of them, whenever they "sneak out." But I don't hold myself up to be a good Christian, as you do. My snark is simply snark; yours is hypocrisy.


Awww, gee willikers...do you mean to say you don't love me anymore?

 :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thank you for your advise. I forgive you.


May the Goddess forgive you.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> IMHO "Lisa" represents a POV not an individual. Am I right?


That is the problem. It is all in the presentation. Her ideas may be perfect but the harshness of her tone deflects from the worthiness of her posts.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I clicked on the site and see that there is a coordinator British Columbia. Is that a convenient location to which to send items? The contact is:
> 
> Prevent SBS BC
> Claire Yamboa
> ...


We hope to move to Vancouver Island in British Columbia later in the year if my tests don't have bad results. I will check it out - I will need a project to knit for this winter. Thanks very much.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> may I please lift the cloud and declare Shirley a Christan and her opponents impersonators.


Thanks -- there are lots of different kinds. I just happen to be liberally inclined but a lot of my friends are too which is forgotten by many because of those who think they are the only people who are right. Oh well. I shouldn't have let her get to me but it is her arrogance and unChristian attitude that gets me.

None, of us are perfect, we do the best we can. At least I try to do so. there are lots of us who are not as narrow and close minded as some.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> That is the problem. It is all in the presentation. Her ideas may be perfect but the harshness of her tone deflects from the worthiness of her posts.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> who is Ingried? Sounds like some goddess to some here. What is her name to fame?


interesting question.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since you don't know what it is to raise a severely disabled child, I suggest you refrain from posting anything like the item you posted below. God's eye is not always on every sparrow. Sometimes some of his children are so disabled at birth that death is the mercy they most deserve.


I cannot imagine the heartache your parents suffered caring for this doomed child and mourning not only losing him but losing what might have been, what should have been.

You have my deepest compassion for all this distress. It is heartless to preach as you have been preached at. Just please accept my virtual arm around your shoulder and my condolences.

Having lost a child, I know it never goes away. I hope your family has been able to live a fulfilling life having you as a fine daughter and you with having loving parents.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> *This is not meant to criticize anyone who disagrees with joeysomma or finds her long posts tiresome.* For some reason, periodically I feel compelled to quote joeysomma's post that she made when she started this topic. When any one of you decides to post your disagreement with the long articles she posts, I suggest you remember that she told all of us from the get-go what her intentions were when she started this topic. Agree or disagree, but at least try not to take her to task for doing what you already know she's committed to doing, unless you like to waste your time beating a very long dead horse.
> 
> *I know this is a controversial subject and I will be called all sorts of names by the liberals and progressives. I found this article this morning and it needed to be shared. If this will save the life of one baby, all the name calling will be worth it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for resharing this, Maid! This article says exactly what I think.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't usually feel it necessary to shout it from the roof tops.
> 
> I am not the 'correct ' kind from the sounds of things.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a vacation. Enjoy.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ms. Shirley - Is this forum worth your losing sleep over? I think not. Nothing stated here is of any long lasting significance. Take this as a place to hang out when you have a moment.


you are right - you have a lot more patience than I have.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I forgive you too Ingried. XX


Ingried thanks you, Lisa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you see, Christian teaching has bypassed her and therefore she does not understand the difference.


That seems to be true about a lot of subjects.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> may I please lift the cloud and declare Shirley a Christan and her opponents impersonators.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO "Lisa" represents a POV not an individual. Am I right?


I think Country Bumpkins is Lisa, and whenever they have an argument, it's just one person talking to herself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> How much I wish you could share my outlook on them, they NEVER bother me at all, no matter what they say - I find them so irrelevant.


Huckleberry, you're full of wisdom today.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Probably saved yourself a headache, Shirley. Love your blue sweater, blue is my favorite color. I treated myself to a bundle of Icelandic unspun wool from Schoolhouse. Yesterday I treated myself to a Kollage square circular needle to use on that yarn. Trying to choose a pattern is tough--so many nice ones. Oh well, those are the choices I prefer!! Have a great day!
> 
> (Today is dh's 63rd bd--gotta make him a nice cake!)


Happy Birthday to your dh!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Awww, gee willikers...do you mean to say you don't love me anymore?
> 
> :XD:


Of course not. I love you as much today as I ever have.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think Country Bumpkins is Lisa, and whenever they have an argument, it's just one person talking to herself.


Poor Purl
By George I think you got it.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course not. I love you as much today as I ever have.


Ha Ha. Hee-Haw. Ha Ha. Snort. Laugh laugh laugh.

(I need a good set of emoticon.)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry, you're full of wisdom today.


Poor Purl
Thank you, would like to have more days like this BUT that would strain some folks here too much and I am trying to be considerate. Thinking is too hard, they prefer to be force fed.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry, you're full of wisdom today.


I KNOW you are right .I have a lot of difficulty not answering - you answer but you don't carry it on. I am learning.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing this, Maid! This article says exactly what I think.


Really? Do you really think this is a fair or accurate picture of "The Left" (we who have no minds of our own and all believe the same thing)? Words in blue are my comments.

"The Left believes: A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.<Reports of this *abound*? Please. Only in very specialized fiction -PP>

A woman should be a slut and be proud of the fact. Numerous liberal groups, including so-called family planning organizations, have taken to promoting "slut pride" campaigns that encourage women to have frequent sex with as many partners as she pleases. <This is arrant nonsense - the phrase "slut pride" is a joke to show that we're not bothered by the things Rush Limbo et al. say>The only suggested caveat usually is that she should employ some form of birth control. What they don't advertise is that because of contraception failure rates, the average woman with an active sex life will become pregnant within two years despite using birth control. Encouraging sex with multiple partners also irresponsibly encourages the spread of disease. Most birth control will not stop a disease from being transmitted to a partner, and condoms are only partially effective.

An unborn child is just an inconvenience. <The person who wrote this has clearly _never_ spoken to a woman who has had an abortion. It's not something women enter into without a good deal of thought, and trivializing their experience doesn't speak well for the author.> The abortion lobby cannot acknowledge the personhood of unborn children because of the moral consequences. They change the vocabulary of the abortion discussiong by using euphemisms such as "fetus" to disguise what's being killed; "health care" to make conceal that abortion is almost never necessary and is physically dangerous to the mother; and "family planning" to cover the fact that what clinics are doing is preventing women from having a family and risking their future fertility to boot.
Abortion "frees" women. After an abortion, a woman won't have to worry about her time being taken up by pregnancy or having a child. She will have to worry about possible medical complications and long-lasting psychological scars. It's one thing to talk about "freedom to choose," but it's another to live with your choices, and choosing abortion comes with a lifetime of guilt and loss."

Never mind - I can't read this any more without getting really angry at this person's dismissal of all pro-choice women.

Do you really think this is what I and my friends believe?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> By George I think you got it.


Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? Do you really think this is a fair or accurate picture of "The Left" (we who have no minds of our own and all believe the same thing)? Words in blue are my comments.
> 
> "The Left believes: A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.<Reports of this *abound*? Please. Only in very specialized fiction -PP>
> 
> ...


Not me -- I don't bellieve any of it. Thanks for highlighting your thoughts. First time I have read a copy of a 'statement'. I Like your words better.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Thank you, would like to have more days like this BUT that would strain some folks here too much and I am trying to be considerate. Thinking is too hard, they prefer to be force fed.


See, Huck? Still being wise.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck.


   :!:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Probably saved yourself a headache, Shirley. Love your blue sweater, blue is my favorite color. I treated myself to a bundle of Icelandic unspun wool from Schoolhouse. Yesterday I treated myself to a Kollage square circular needle to use on that yarn. Trying to choose a pattern is tough--so many nice ones. Oh well, those are the choices I prefer!! Have a great day!
> 
> (Today is dh's 63rd bd--gotta make him a nice cake!)


Please tell him the Unprosperous Pinctada wishes him a very happy one.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. Hee-Haw. Ha Ha. Snort. Laugh laugh laugh.
> 
> (I need a good set of emoticon.)


isn't it Purl that has great emoticons? or is it Dame? I like the ones who really laugh. I don't think I can get them like that for my imac.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ingried thanks you, Lisa.


 :thumbup: Priceless.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> isn't it Purl that has great emoticons? or is it Dame? I like the ones who really laugh. I don't think I can get them like that for my imac.


Designer1234
you are welcome to borrow my Hubby, he has a fabulous sense of humor and an infectious laugh. Aching ribs from laughing are common around here. He often sends me cute Jokes from the other side of the desk - you see we like to be close and share.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck.


 :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Who on Earth is Ingried? Her importance intrigues me. Some HOLY Ghost is my guess. Someone enlighten me please.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Who on Earth is Ingried? Her importance intrigues me. Some HOLY Ghost is my guess. Someone enlighten me please.


Too late. Cats out of the bag for real this time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Too late. Cats out of the bag for real this time.


Country Bumpkins
so, tell me, wise woman.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Too late. Cats out of the bag for real this time.


Is that so, Lisa?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Is that so, Lisa?


Poor Purl
The mystery woman must be a Goddess. She seems to have a strange hold on some here. Are we experiencing the birth of a new Religion? Could be quite interesting. Is anyone keeping track of how many personalities each one of us is supposed to be? Even my Monkey wonders.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Too late. Cats out of the bag for real this time.


The cat is out of the bag? By the way things are going here, I would say that you are in the bag! 
FYI, I received an email from Ingried today. She sends her love.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> The mystery woman must be a Goddess. She seems to have a strange hold on some here. Are we experiencing the birth of a new Religion? Could be quite interesting. Is anyone keeping track of how many personalities each one of us is supposed to be? Even my Monkey wonders.


C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
Everyone knows that PP is Ingried and dame is Lisa, and I am Susan and acameron is LillyK......


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


There have been a whole lot of people as well as Ingried. I haven't heard from her for over a year. I liked her a lot when the Progressive thread was open but not sure what happened after that. Lots of those originals have left. Too bad we had a lot of laughs. Hmmm HI Cheeky! how are you doing?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Everyone knows that PP is Ingried and dame is Lisa, and I am Susan and.....


I feel left out -- maybe I am Ingried, Who knows, as long as I don't get called sharky. oops -- wrong group.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel left out -- maybe I am Ingried, Who knows, as long as I don't get called sharky. oops -- wrong group.


Oh, you are Ingried! I was waiting for you to admit it!!!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ms. Shirley - Is this forum worth your losing sleep over? I think not. Nothing stated here is of any long lasting significance. Take this as a place to hang out when you have a moment.


That's good advice. I happened on here today just following up on a vicious post that caught my eye somewhere else. Sure enough - Lisa was there. I can't take the heat, so I get out of the kitchen - although I must say I've seen some friends on here and read some very nice posts.

It makes me happy to see that - probably seems corny, but it does. Have a lovely evening.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel left out -- maybe I am Ingried, Who knows, as long as I don't get called sharky. oops -- wrong group.


Shirley, if you're Ingried, I must be sockpuppy!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Shirley, if you're Ingried, I must be sockpuppy!


NO WAY, Bonnie!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> That's good advice. I happened on here today just following up on a vicious post that caught my eye somewhere else. Sure enough - Lisa was there. I can't take the heat, so I get out of the kitchen - although I must say I've seen some friends on here and read some very nice posts.
> 
> It makes me happy to see that - probably seems corny, but it does. Have a lovely evening.


So nice to hear from our bonny Bonnie after a hiatus.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Rejecting Abortion: a 16-Year-Olds Selfless Act of Love
> 
> by Amy Ford | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 6/4/12 11:06 AM
> _
> ...


This sounds like pure Hollywood. What about the girl who was kicked out of her house for getting pregnant? Or a woman on drugs who gives birth? No technicolor movie endings for these babies. Post some sad endings for unwanted babies or don't they exist on your Sunnybrook Farm?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> This sounds like pure Hollywood. What about the girl who was kicked out of her house for getting pregnant? Or a woman on drugs who gives birth? No technicolor movie endings for these babies. Post some sad endings for unwanted babies or don't they exist on your Sunnybrook Farm?


SQM
Juvenile Detention Centers, Jails and Prisons are often the long term housing for all too many uncared for youngsters and I never see any Pro-Lifers look after those poor Souls. At least some of us Liberals volunteer to educate these neglegted children. Terribly sad is that when they are released, they very often have no-one to go home to and continue to live in some sort of Institution. Life beyond birth is irrelevant to Pro-Lifers. I know, it is so easy to talk a good game and then disappear into comfort and give a damn. Do not look for an apology from me for the bad language. I use it very sparingly and mean it when applied.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> joeysomma
> so you underwrite children having children? Do you make sure they continue their education and take care of their Babies properly? Do you know how many Babies are suffering brain damage because of poor nutrition? Ever looked into the Fridge of a very young mother and saw 20 bottles of spoiled baby formula? Mom did not know any better. Could you not at least give some of your time to help these youngsters raise their youngsters? Your absence is quite telling. You really do not care, you are just pretending, we know your spiel well.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Happy Birthday to your dh!


Thanks, KFN! And Maysdad thanks you, too!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Please tell him the Unprosperous Pinctada wishes him a very happy one.


Thank you! Does everyone know that our Pearl is the only organic precious stone? Now you do!!

Bonsoir, mes amis--
:-D :-D :-D


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> The mystery woman must be a Goddess. She seems to have a strange hold on some here. Are we experiencing the birth of a new Religion? Could be quite interesting. Is anyone keeping track of how many personalities each one of us is supposed to be? Even my Monkey wonders.


Along the lines of the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil,"
I think your monkey looks like "What the ???"


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course not. I love you as much today as I ever have.


Oh lustrous sphere, you are going to make me get a new keyboard sooner rather than later!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Minnesota: Dogs and cats more important than women?
> 
> Minnesota Governor Wants Licensing of Dog Breeders, But Not Abortion Clinics
> 
> ...


This is pure BS. Most of Minnesota's abortion clinics are affiliates of county hospitals. There are no large number of abortion clinics here.
They are not dirty infectious places as the composer of your lying article would rather believe. Just another nutty anti abortion liar printing more nonsense.
So, I have proven what I believe that these stories are as fictious as they are worthless. And if Dayton did veto the bill, he had every right to. You can't single out certain businesses and harass them.
Good for Gov Dayton for standing up for animals to be treated humanely.
One has nothing to do with the other.
Have you heard any woman from Minnesota complain that her abortion was in a filthy unhealthy clinic? I bet you have not. So 4 Pinnochio's on this one.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> The mystery woman must be a Goddess. She seems to have a strange hold on some here. Are we experiencing the birth of a new Religion? Could be quite interesting. Is anyone keeping track of how many personalities each one of us is supposed to be? Even my Monkey wonders.


That's because your Monkey is wonder-full, Huck. Did you make him?

I think they try to give us multiple personalities because they have no personality themselves. They should be giving each other new personalities.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Everyone knows that PP is Ingried and dame is Lisa, and I am Susan and acameron is LillyK......


Most of that is true, Patty, except I'm pretty sure Lisa is Country Bumpkins, or vice versa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Oh lustrous sphere, you are going to make me get a new keyboard sooner rather than later!!


Spew?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It was a long time ago. She was a smart, knowledgeable and feisty member. Never backed down from a fisticuff, and she never had to. She was always sure of her position, but kind and civil at the same time. Many people remember her with great fondness, others not so much. I think she drifted away from KP to concentrate on art and family. I know you would like each other very much.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> who is Ingried? Sounds like some goddess to some here. What is her name to fame?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put MIB. I agree. Painful as it is to consider.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Since you don't know what it is to raise a severely disabled child, I suggest you refrain from posting anything like the item you posted below. God's eye is not always on every sparrow. Sometimes some of his children are so disabled at birth that death is the mercy they most deserve.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks -- there are lots of different kinds. I just happen to be liberally inclined but a lot of my friends are too which is forgotten by many because of those who think they are the only people who are right. Oh well. I shouldn't have let her get to me but it is her arrogance and unChristian attitude that gets me.
> 
> None, of us are perfect, we do the best we can. At least I try to do so. there are lots of us who are not as narrow and close minded as some.


Praise the Lord.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I cannot imagine the heartache your parents suffered caring for this doomed child and mourning not only losing him but losing what might have been, what should have been.
> 
> You have my deepest compassion for all this distress. It is heartless to preach as you have been preached at. Just please accept my virtual arm around your shoulder and my condolences.
> 
> Having lost a child, I know it never goes away. I hope your family has been able to live a fulfilling life having you as a fine daughter and you with having loving parents.


Sometimes others fail to understand the effect having and losing a child has on other children. It's like divorce. Children experience it. It is beyond their understanding or control. And it leaves a mark on their psyche throughout their lives.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Never considered it. It would answer many questions. You may be on to something PP.



Poor Purl said:


> I think Country Bumpkins is Lisa, and whenever they have an argument, it's just one person talking to herself.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry, you're full of wisdom today.


Today and always. I always find a fresh perspective in Huck's remarks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course not. I love you as much today as I ever have.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Thank you, would like to have more days like this BUT that would strain some folks here too much and I am trying to be considerate. Thinking is too hard, they prefer to be force fed.


Well put, as always.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm insulted.



Poor Purl said:


> Really? Do you really think this is a fair or accurate picture of "The Left" (we who have no minds of our own and all believe the same thing)? Words in blue are my comments.
> 
> "The Left believes: A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.<Reports of this *abound*? Please. Only in very specialized fiction -PP>
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck.


Or is it another guise of Lisa?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sharky>>>>Cherf>>>>Tuesdayflights>>>>Knitpresentgifts, wasn't it? And lovethelake and countrybumpkins are the same....or are related?



Designer1234 said:


> I feel left out -- maybe I am Ingried, Who knows, as long as I don't get called sharky. oops -- wrong group.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Juvenile Detention Centers, Jails and Prisons are often the long term housing for all too many uncared for youngsters and I never see any Pro-Lifers look after those poor Souls. At least some of us Liberals volunteer to educate these neglegted children. Terribly sad is that when they are released, they very often have no-one to go home to and continue to live in some sort of Institution. Life beyond birth is irrelevant to Pro-Lifers. I know, it is so easy to talk a good game and then disappear into comfort and give a damn. Do not look for an apology from me for the bad language. I use it very sparingly and mean it when applied.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm with you all the way, Huck. I'm tired of excuses. The need is great and ongoing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Patty. Local news is the best.



BrattyPatty said:


> This is pure BS. Most of Minnesota's abortion clinics are affiliates of county hospitals. There are no large number of abortion clinics here.
> They are not dirty infectious places as the composer of your lying article would rather believe. Just another nutty anti abortion liar printing more nonsense.
> So, I have proven what I believe that these stories are as fictious as they are worthless. And if Dayton did veto the bill, he had every right to. You can't single out certain businesses and harass them.
> Good for Gov Dayton for standing up for animals to be treated humanely.
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Shirley, if you're Ingried, I must be sockpuppy!


You could not be sockpuppy in a million years. Thank heavens!I

No, I guess I will just have to be me - for all the world to see.(and a hopefully with friends along the way).

It is nice to see you back. Did you get some rest? It sounds as if you have had a busy time. I thought of you quite often. I am glad you had nice holidays and had time with your family.

Life has been a bit hectic here as you might gather from reading -- final test tomorrow - (I hope).

Take care and keep on posting on NB. It is a nice place and good people -


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Thank you! Does everyone know that our Pearl is the only organic precious stone? Now you do!!
> 
> Bonsoir, mes amis--
> :-D :-D :-D


I knew she was something very special.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> It was a long time ago. She was a smart, knowledgeable and feisty member. Never backed down from a fisticuff, and she never had to. She was always sure of her position, but kind and civil at the same time. Many people remember her with great fondness, others not so much. I think she drifted away from KP to concentrate on art and family. I know you would like each other very much.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: 
--------
Why am I here - why do I keep coming back to this thread??

The best thing about those who are in our group is that 
we don't have to follow one path- or be limited by the opinions of the others.We can say what we feel. I don't always agree with some of the group here, but then I know not all of our group agree with me all the time. Ingried was a real addition to the threads. Dame speaks the truth. She is strong in her beliefs but still a kind person.

Sometimes people on both sides get so encouraged by the battle, and being 'right' that they don't want to be kind or try for understanding. Others really really enjoy hurting and bullying others. There are different personalities - different ideas, different backgrounds, but we care about people. We care about those who are not as fortunate for whatever reason. I don't think we are as judgmental about people but we stand up for ourselves

. We come from a large variety of backgrounds and somehow we have become liberal in our view. I am proud that I care about changing things for those who need help and for caring about Women's rights and many other different things.

It makes me feel better to know that there are those on the right who are true to their beliefs too but who can take the time to 
see that there are other truths - one being - we want the same result as KFN said but we just don't agree on how to get there.

It is also good that these threads have 'outsiders' who sometimes can see things from a distance which can't really be a bad thing (ask me how I know). People from other countries have a different perspective -we realize that this is an American thread about American ideas and politics. We can still contribute.

I think differently about a lot of things, and I realize that the Political stuff is not something that I contribute to that much, because I don't want to for one thing, and I don't pretend to 
understand or know your Politics except the overall picture.

I have been accepted and treated with respect here and I thank you for that. Liberals have strong beliefs and try to follow those beliefs. We are of different Faiths which to me makes it so worthwhile. We are not limited or narrow in our outlook and we learn from each other. We have one thing in common, we care about others less fortunate we care about women and hopefully we care about the truth.

We do not have closed minds - but some things for us are core beliefs - and I am proud of that. We welcome discussion and often we don't agree completely with each other. However we don't accept it when our beliefs are twisted, and lied about -that is one thing that makes us stand up and be counted.

Most of us believe strongly in Women's rights -and the rights of people to make decisions about their own lives, as long as they don't hurt others, so we meet head on with those who 
don't.

It works both ways. Each of us have to choose our own way -- and usually it is chosen because of lifetime experiences some good and some bad.

I have been thinking this past couple of days about what I gain by coming here - for obvious reasons I have struggled with this for a long time. I am drawn here because I am strongly interested in what goes on here , also I have friends here who believe as I do. It is because I LIKE the people here, and I feel I can contribute. It is because my core beliefs are accepted here and shared. I have 
thought about this a lot as it is not always a pleasant place and it is a place where I don't seem to remain pleasant all the time.

Is it worth it?

That is what I have been wondering for a long time.

*Yes it is.*

I don't want to give in to nastiness, being misrepresented.

I am a Liberal, I will always be a Liberal and I won't be driven away.

We each have to deal with our beliefs in our own way. I write 'books' like this -- others can say the same thing in one line (which I admire, by the way). But we can express ourselves here.

It is also because I have more hope now than I did a short while ago because I know that there are some really good people on the right, who keep their faith, disagree with us but are willing to acknowledge that differences are what make this country and my country strong. We are not sheep we are individuals who are trying to do the best we can and make things as right as possible.

I just hope that those who don't agree with us want the same thing - I have a fear that that is not the case with some but am thankful it is the case with many- I believe there are more Bonnies and KFN's out there than we know. I just hope I am right for the sake of your country.

Off my soap box.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> So nice to hear from our bonny Bonnie after a hiatus.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I agree with everything that Marilyn said. 


Shirley


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> you are welcome to borrow my Hubby, he has a fabulous sense of humor and an infectious laugh. Aching ribs from laughing are common around here. He often sends me cute Jokes from the other side of the desk - you see we like to be close and share.


I have been married close to 60 years . Laughter is what has kept us going through all those years. He makes me laugh. I am glad it is the same for you. He is the light of my life. lucky am I.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Today and always. I always find a fresh perspective in Huck's remarks.


I agree - she manages to see things clearly.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I sorry but I must forgive you as my Lord forgave me.


Then do it privately. Not publicly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> It was a long time ago. She was a smart, knowledgeable and feisty member. Never backed down from a fisticuff, and she never had to. She was always sure of her position, but kind and civil at the same time. Many people remember her with great fondness, others not so much. I think she drifted away from KP to concentrate on art and family. I know you would like each other very much.


damemary
I would love to step into her shoes. Thank you for the info.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have been married close to 60 years . Laughter is what has kept us going through all those years. He makes me laugh. I am glad it is the same for you. He is the light of my life. lucky am I.


Designer1234
if we only could bottle our secret and spread some happiness. It feels so good to be loved, liked and appreciated. Thankful hugs and frequent LIPS make our days pleasant. I wish you many more years of love and laughter, Huck.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Or is it another guise of Lisa?


It couldn't be. CB, who _is[/] Lisa, still thinks Huck is Ingried. You are probably some other person whose name they used to throw around.

Wait, Lisa = CB, who is both Country Bumpkins and Cheeky Blighter. No wonder they insist that Cheeky is Lisa.

Who's on first? I don't know. He's on third._


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins
next time HE speaks to you, tell him that he needs to get busy and care about the Millions who are suffering. He is spending much too much time with you with mondane things.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sharky>>>>Cherf>>>>Tuesdayflights>>>>Knitpresentgifts, wasn't it? And lovethelake and countrybumpkins are the same....or are related?


Okay, the last two can't be the same. If you've seen CB's prayers, you'd know immediately she wasn't Catholic, and LTL certainly is. But they could be related.

But you know they're not related to MarilynKnits, or SQM, or me, who are all the same person, too.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

What a coincidence: Huckleberry and Ingried are the ONLY two people who ALWAYS respond in their posts with the other person's name as a heading. 

And they don't even know each other. Amazing!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's because your Monkey is wonder-full, Huck. Did you make him?
> 
> I think they try to give us multiple personalities because they have no personality themselves. They should be giving each other new personalities.


Poor Purl
No, I did not make him. He is part of a Music Box but right now is "chairing" my posts. Even I need supervision - at least now and then - you understand, don't you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> next time HE speaks to you, tell him that he needs to get busy and care about the Millions who are suffering. He is spending much too much time with you with mondane things.


What a good suggestion. From the wise and wonderful Monkey.

Are those fingers that form his/her legs, Huck?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> What a coincidence: Huckleberry and Ingried are the ONLY two people who ALWAYS respond in their posts with the other person's name as a heading.
> 
> And they don't even know each other. Amazing!


Gerslay

That's proof that they're the same person? I don't even know whether what you say is true, let alone relevant.

Where shall I send the logic textbook that you seem to need?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> What a coincidence: Huckleberry and Ingried are the ONLY two people who ALWAYS respond in their posts with the other person's name as a heading.
> 
> And they don't even know each other. Amazing!


Missy Gerslay
I was taught to address the Person I am speaking to, who failed you? Thank you for putting me into her circle. By the way, every word we post we have learned from others or did you come into this World already educated? Some Genius you must be.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Missy Gerslay
> I was taught to address the Person I am speaking to, who failed you? Thank you for putting me into her circle. By the way, every word we post we have learned from others or did you come into this World already educated? Some Genius you must be.


Huck
This is a perfect rejoinder. I can't even think what emoticon to give it, so I'll just praise it.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Someone needs to introduce the two of them so they can each get over having a split personality.

Just sayin!

(Oops, almost forgot my smiley face)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay
> 
> That's proof that they're the same person? I don't even know whether what you say is true, let alone relevant.
> 
> Where shall I send the logic textbook that you seem to need?


Poor Purl
aren't some folks "wise" (don't we wish). Logic, that missing part in all too many lives. Uniqueness, common sense are other baskets to be filled - too many basket cases to put up with.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a good suggestion. From the wise and wonderful Monkey.
> 
> Are those fingers that form his/her legs, Huck?


Poor Purl
they are legs with tipped toes which rest on a Piano pretending to be tickling the double keyboard keys. Actually very cute.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Rejoinder...excellent word!

And that's exactly what Huck and Ingried need...a rejoin-der!

Good work, Purl Gurl!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Then do it privately. Not publicly.


No thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It couldn't be. CB, who _is[/] Lisa, still thinks Huck is Ingried. You are probably some other person whose name they used to throw around.
> 
> Wait, Lisa = CB, who is both Country Bumpkins and Cheeky Blighter. No wonder they insist that Cheeky is Lisa.
> 
> Who's on first? I don't know. He's on third._


_

You are hilarious! Oh my sides are aching . What a jewel you are! HAHAHAHAHA_


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Shirley for sharing your thoughts with all of us.



Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> --------
> Why am I here - why do I keep coming back to this thread??
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Then do it privately. Not publicly.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Special shoes indeed, but if anyone can do it, it may be you.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I would love to step into her shoes. Thank you for the info.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> What a coincidence: Huckleberry and Ingried are the ONLY two people who ALWAYS respond in their posts with the other person's name as a heading.
> 
> And they don't even know each other. Amazing!


SShhhhh we are not suppose to know. It is a secret. Like when Lisa used to be their friend they didn't know that either she had too many heads.They like to lie and play little games. So we don't need to bring their little secrets to the light.Shhhh We are suppose to be dumb and not know it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It couldn't be. CB, who _is[/] Lisa, still thinks Huck is Ingried. You are probably some other person whose name they used to throw around.
> 
> Wait, Lisa = CB, who is both Country Bumpkins and Cheeky Blighter. No wonder they insist that Cheeky is Lisa.
> 
> Who's on first? I don't know. He's on third._


_

At least you have first and third....I think._


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> next time HE speaks to you, tell him that he needs to get busy and care about the Millions who are suffering. He is spending much too much time with you with mondane things.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Puleeeese. I give....for the moment.



Poor Purl said:


> Okay, the last two can't be the same. If you've seen CB's prayers, you'd know immediately she wasn't Catholic, and LTL certainly is. But they could be related.
> 
> But you know they're not related to MarilynKnits, or SQM, or me, who are all the same person, too.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

No to the song, which I've never heard, and yes to the Bible verse which I consider allegorical. I should have said that while God's eye is on everything in His creation, He doesn't always grant His mercy or intervene in every action.


joeysomma said:


> You may be referring to this song recorded by George Beverly Shea, of the Billy Graham ministries:
> 
> His Eye Is On The Sparrow
> Luke 12: 6-7 (NKJV)
> _6 Are not five sparrows sold for two copper coins? And not one of them is forgotten before God. 7 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows._


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Bless your ♥


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Meaning....? Oh, I get it. They must be the same person?

Pardon me if I don't automatically accept your 'thought processes.' And I have other important stuff to work on right now.



Gerslay said:


> What a coincidence: Huckleberry and Ingried are the ONLY two people who ALWAYS respond in their posts with the other person's name as a heading.
> 
> And they don't even know each other. Amazing!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> aren't some folks "wise" (don't we wish). Logic, that missing part in all too many lives. Uniqueness, common sense are other baskets to be filled - too many basket cases to put up with.


More complicated than a split personality...misused term, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you poop in public too? Modesty please.



Country Bumpkins said:


> No thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do you poop in public too? Modesty please.


Tooo funnnny Hahahahahah . You must go on the road with your jokes! :thumbup: :lol: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

'They' are dumb and they don't know it. IMHO


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Testing Bless your (I).


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Testing Bless your (I).


You are so precious. What would we do without you! :wink:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? Do you really think this is a fair or accurate picture of "The Left" (we who have no minds of our own and all believe the same thing)? Words in blue are my comments.
> 
> "The Left believes: A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.<Reports of this *abound*? Please. Only in very specialized fiction -PP>
> 
> ...


First of all, does my agreeing with what the author has said make me guilty of generalizing, as I so hate? I guess so and I apologize. There is no group in which everyone believes the same. But for the sake of responding, I'll go forward. I strongly believe that women are being deceived. I agree with the author that THIS is the real war on women. While there are some who are working to convince us that all of this is about women's rights, I believe that it has become about denigrating us and turning us into little more than animals. They've tried to cheapen us and turn us into sex toys. I believe its part of an agenda to destroy society and bring down our country. I know that no one will watch this, but here's a video explaining the agenda. 



This agenda has been in the works for decades. And we've fallen for every bit of it.

As to abortion, I think that women have been brainwashed into thinking of it as a nice clean procedure. The reality in many cases is much different. Regardless of the law, many abortionists ARE killing live babies. Its happening all over the country even if the media doesn't talk about it. They pack laminaria (seaweed) into a woman's cervix. This causes premature dilation. They pull the baby out by the legs. Before the head comes out they cut its spinal cord or stab an instrument into its brain, through the soft spot. Many times the baby comes out before they can kill it. Then they either leave it to die or kill it right there.

Kermit Gosnell is not alone! He was defiant because he knew that what he was doing was standard procedure. He was outraged because he felt he'd done nothing wrong. Read about George Tiller. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller. And Leroy Carhart.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeRoy_Carhart. These men went around the law, killing babies on a daily basis. Abortion is not a nice clean procedure. It is murder which takes place on a daily basis, and we turn a blind eye to it. Why have we become so hard and cruel? Why do we allow these murders for the sake of women's rights? I keep hearing women say, its not right for me but its OK for someone else. Why? We like to tell ourselves that the majority of abortions take place before the baby is fully formed, so it doesn't count as a baby. It's just not true! We're being deceived!

I keep hearing the excuse that we need abortion to eliminate the defective babies. Why, we just can't have them. Its too difficult! To that I say, BULLS#&T! My own oldest son has Cerebral Palsy. When he was little, everywhere I looked, I saw pity in people's faces. But to me, the pity was for them! They couldn't see the joy. They took for granted every time their child sat up for the first time, or stood or walked. We saw joy! We went through a lot! We suffered, we celebrated, we lived! Throughout my life, I've had many opportunities to to work and play with handicapped people. None of them wished they hadn't been born! They celebrate their lives in a way that most people don't! As to those who have no abilities at all? We don't know what they think or feel and its not up to us to decide whether they'd be better off dead or alive. Years ago when the schools introduced inclusion, I tutored a girl who was paralyzed and locked within herself. I couldn't tell whether she understood me or whether she was learning anything. But I KNEW when she was happy! She would smile and laugh! No one could tell me that she shouldn't have been born! We had a 5 year old neighbor boy with spinal bifida. He was paralyzed from the chest down. He played with my boys all the time. He just drop out of his wheelchair and crawl around to keep up. He adapted! He was happy! His father built him a bike that could be peddled with his hands. He did nearly everything my boys did. Today, doctors recommend that mothers abort babies with spinal bifida. What a waste! What a tragedy!

I believe that when people think that life is disposable and we should be allowed to do as we please, you will end up with the complete breakdown of society and the country. And I believe that we are seeing that today. Everything is cheap! Nothing holds value! Not marriage! Not family! Not jobs! Not self respect or self reliance! Not even life itself! What do we stand for, but words?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Someone needs to introduce the two of them so they can each get over having a split personality.
> 
> Just sayin!
> 
> (Oops, almost forgot my smiley face)


Gerslay
I didn't.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

My brother never came home from the hospital. As an adult I began to understand what my parents had gone through and how difficult it was for them to carry on. They did a good job of that so I have a lot of respect for how they managed. I've also learned that grief for that kind of loss never really goes away. People somehow learn to live with so many tragedies. Isn't it unfortunate that some people seem to have no compassion?


MarilynKnits said:


> I cannot imagine the heartache your parents suffered caring for this doomed child and mourning not only losing him but losing what might have been, what should have been.
> 
> You have my deepest compassion for all this distress. It is heartless to preach as you have been preached at. Just please accept my virtual arm around your shoulder and my condolences.
> 
> Having lost a child, I know it never goes away. I hope your family has been able to live a fulfilling life having you as a fine daughter and you with having loving parents.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> First of all, does my agreeing with what the author has said make me guilty of generalizing, as I so hate? I guess so and I apologize. There is no group in which everyone believes the same. But for the sake of responding, I'll go forward. I strongly believe that women are being deceived. I agree with the author that THIS is the real war on women. While there are some who are working to convince us that all of this is about women's rights, I believe that it has become about denigrating us and turning us into little more than animals. They've tried to cheapen us and turn us into sex toys. I believe its part of an agenda to destroy society and bring down our country. I know that no one will watch this, but here's a video explaining the agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Amen girl! :thumbup:I admire you. You are a great parent. Blessing to you!XX


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> aren't some folks "wise" (don't we wish). Logic, that missing part in all too many lives. Uniqueness, common sense are other baskets to be filled - too many basket cases to put up with.


Huckleberry
Wise in the sense of "wisecrack."
Basket cases in the sense of "basket cases."


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Who on Earth is Ingried? Her importance intrigues me. Some HOLY Ghost is my guess. Someone enlighten me please.


Has someone posted under the name Ingried? I'm lost. I hear reference to it but I don't remember an Ingried.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> SShhhhh we are not suppose to know. It is a secret. Like when Lisa used to be their friend they didn't know that either she had too many heads.They like to lie and play little games. So we don't need to bring their little secrets to the light.Shhhh We are suppose to be dumb and not know it.


Country Bumpkins
"suppose(d) to be"? Incorrect assumption.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Everyone knows that PP is Ingried and dame is Lisa, and I am Susan and acameron is LillyK......


I am SO confused! :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> --------
> Why am I here - why do I keep coming back to this thread??
> 
> ...


Designer1234

You realize, don't you, that a foreign (?) voice is at least as important as a local one. You can see more from a distance than from close up. Very interesting post.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No thank you.


Country Bumpkin
why such a need to flaunt your Religion? Are the deeds missing so that you must talk a good talk? No SHOW just TELL I guess.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's good advice. I happened on here today just following up on a vicious post that caught my eye somewhere else. Sure enough - Lisa was there. I can't take the heat, so I get out of the kitchen - although I must say I've seen some friends on here and read some very nice posts.
> 
> It makes me happy to see that - probably seems corny, but it does. Have a lovely evening.


I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love the heat! Give me a good argument any day. I find it a challenge!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am SO confused! :lol:


Knitter from Nebraska
so is a bunch around here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> "suppose(d) to be"? Incorrect assumption.


Huckleberry


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Shirley, if you're Ingried, I must be sockpuppy!


Ahahahahaha! Way to join in with the fun! Good one, Bon!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am SO confused! :lol:


Knitter from Nebraska

Who are you confused with?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> 'They' are dumb and they don't know it. IMHO


damemary
You unkeyed their shortcomings.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkin
> why such a need to flaunt your Religion? Are the deeds missing so that you must talk a good talk? No ShOW just TELL I guess.


Now Ingried you know you said I was a rose among the thorns. :wink:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Rejoinder...excellent word!
> 
> And that's exactly what Huck and Ingried need...a rejoin-der!
> 
> Good work, Purl Gurl!


Gerslay
That's very funny. Unless you really mean it, in which case I should point out that I don't laugh at the handicapped.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234
Your contributions are of great value. Stay with it and don't let the ''''''''''''''''' wear you down. No, it isn't the B-word.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are hilarious! Oh my sides are aching . What a jewel you are! HAHAHAHAHA


Country Bumpkins
The only organic gem.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't forget "grammaollie" (probably spelled that wrong).


damemary said:


> Sharky>>>>Cherf>>>>Tuesdayflights>>>>Knitpresentgifts, wasn't it? And lovethelake and countrybumpkins are the same....or are related?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now Ingried you know you said I was a rose among the thorns. :wink:


Country Bumpkins
such remark to you would never come from my lips, that is for VERY sure. You must be flattering yourself. Huck. OR she is much kinder than I and sees you through rose-colored glasses. I only see a thicket of ugly stingers wrapped in pages from an off-brand Bible.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> This sounds like pure Hollywood. What about the girl who was kicked out of her house for getting pregnant? Or a woman on drugs who gives birth? No technicolor movie endings for these babies. Post some sad endings for unwanted babies or don't they exist on your Sunnybrook Farm?


There are plenty of unwanted babies! But can you tell me why they've made it so hard to adopt one? And why it is SO expensive? I know from personal experience! Its almost as if they want adoption to fail, so they can justify abortion. Adoption costs thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars! Its not right! There are many people with love in their hearts, who can't afford this!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My brother never came home from the hospital. As an adult I began to understand what my parents had gone through and how difficult it was for them to carry on. They did a good job of that so I have a lot of respect for how they managed. I've also learned that grief for that kind of loss never really goes away. People somehow learn to live with so many tragedies. Isn't it unfortunate that some people seem to have no compassion?


MaidInBedlam
only those who have experienced such heartache understand it is everlasting. Death can be welcomed compared to livelong institutional existence entwined with neglect and abuse.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There are plenty of unwanted babies! But can you tell me why they've made it so hard to adopt one? And why it is SO expensive? I know from personal experience! Its almost as if they want adoption to fail, so they can justify abortion. Adoption costs thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars! Its not right! There are many people with love in their hearts, who can't afford this!


Get a grip Neb. Abortions have always been with us and always will. The matter is whether you want to go back to the antediluvian back alley abortions or safe ones. You are telling me that with 7 billion people (not sure about this number) on a grossly overcrowded Earth that we need more people?

I am terribly bored with arguing this topic. For now it is the law of the land. Most Americans want to keep it so. Spend your time and efforts on raising funds for better contraception. That makes better sense.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> such remark to you would never come from my lips, that is for VERY sure. You must be flattering yourself. Huck. OR she is much kinder than I and sees you through rose-colored glasses. I only see a thicket of ugly stingers wrapped in pages from an off-brand Bible.


I won't go back and look it up but it is in print. But you and I know don't we. :wink:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Country Bumpkins
> The only organic gem.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There are plenty of unwanted babies! But can you tell me why they've made it so hard to adopt one? And why it is SO expensive? I know from personal experience! Its almost as if they want adoption to fail, so they can justify abortion. Adoption costs thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars! Its not right! There are many people with love in their hearts, who can't afford this!


Knitter fo Nebraska
adopting means sacrifice. I am glad strict measures are in place before a Baby is handed over and still adoptions are not always providing a good life. Speak with those who suffered because they were "not perfect". When Genes clash, the War is on, unfortuntely. "...want adoptions to fail..."? that is crazy (actually wanted to use a harsher term).


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Get a grip Neb. Abortions have always been with us and always will. The matter is whether you want to go back to the antediluvian back alley abortions or safe ones. You are telling me that with 7 billion people (not sure about this number) on a grossly overcrowded Earth that we need more people?
> 
> I am terribly bored with arguing this topic. For now it is the law of the land. Most Americans want to keep it so. Spend your time and efforts on raising funds for better contraception. That makes better sense.


SQM
excellent suggestion. Thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I won't go back and look it up but it is in print. But you and I know don't we. :wink:


Country Bumpkins
what's with that "you and I"? We have nothing in common. It's you and HE and NOT you and ME. Perhaps he is wispering in your Ear some unbelievable Tales. Sure seems like it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> what's with that "you and I"? We have nothing in common.


 :wink:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Juvenile Detention Centers, Jails and Prisons are often the long term housing for all too many uncared for youngsters and I never see any Pro-Lifers look after those poor Souls. At least some of us Liberals volunteer to educate these neglegted children. Terribly sad is that when they are released, they very often have no-one to go home to and continue to live in some sort of Institution. Life beyond birth is irrelevant to Pro-Lifers. I know, it is so easy to talk a good game and then disappear into comfort and give a damn. Do not look for an apology from me for the bad language. I use it very sparingly and mean it when applied.


All of these problems are happening because society now teaches that its OK and even excusable to do whatever we want. Selfishness is the order of the day! Drugs are readily available and even accepted as a normal part of life. People are criticized for judging the behaviors of others and this is where it leads! Until society demands accountability and goes to the root of the problem, nothing will change.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.

For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.

My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


damemary said:


> Sometimes others fail to understand the effect having and losing a child has on other children. It's like divorce. Children experience it. It is beyond their understanding or control. And it leaves a mark on their psyche throughout their lives.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Get a grip Neb. Abortions have always been with us and always will. The matter is whether you want to go back to the antediluvian back alley abortions or safe ones. You are telling me that with 7 billion people (not sure about this number) on a grossly overcrowded Earth that we need more people?
> 
> I am terribly bored with arguing this topic. For now it is the law of the land. Most Americans want to keep it so. Spend your time and efforts on raising funds for better contraception. That makes better sense.


I agree SQM. Back street abortions have been happening for Centuries, and thousands of Mothers and Babies have died from the results.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:
 

> All of these problems are happening because society now teaches that its OK and even excusable to do whatever we want. Selfishness is the order of the day! Drugs are readily available and even accepted as a normal part of life. People are criticized for judging the behaviors of others and this is where it leads! Until society demands accountability and goes to the root of the problem, nothing will change.


You are describing every period of history, you know. There have always been prisons, with plenty of people in them. People have always exhibited selfishness. And if not drugs, there has always been alcohol that lead to crimes and has always been accepted as a normal part of life.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.
> 
> For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.
> 
> My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


MIB- I am so sorry you had this tragedy in your family. I know that grief - and your parents carried it with them obviously their whole lives. We lost one at 3 months {SIDS} and 3 miscarriages - one was nearly full term. I have no words to cover the sadness.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Your contributions are of great value. Stay with it and don't let the ''''''''''''''''' wear you down. No, it isn't the B-word.


Thanks Huck --


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay
> That's very funny. Unless you really mean it, in which case I should point out that I don't laugh at the handicapped.


C'mon Purl, you can do better than that!

:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Thanks, KFN! And Maysdad thanks you, too!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay
> That's very funny. Unless you really mean it, in which case I should point out that I don't laugh at the handicapped.


Even when they type??


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Along the lines of the "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil,"
> I think your monkey looks like "What the ???"


I agree! On my little 7" tablet, it took me a while to figure out what it even was.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Oh lustrous sphere, you are going to make me get a new keyboard sooner rather than later!!


A keyboard with a built in thesaurus!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Y'all are no fun at all. 

I'm taking the ball and bat and going home! 

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Y'all are no fun at all.
> 
> I'm taking the ball and bat and going home!
> 
> :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


I can play for awhile. What game?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Then do it privately. Not publicly.


Then nobody would know just how righteous she is


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Spew?


Dear Goddess!

Could you not wait until payday??

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> --------
> Why am I here - why do I keep coming back to this thread??


Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There are plenty of unwanted babies! But can you tell me why they've made it so hard to adopt one? And why it is SO expensive? I know from personal experience! Its almost as if they want adoption to fail, so they can justify abortion. Adoption costs thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars! Its not right! There are many people with love in their hearts, who can't afford this!


Do you really think *anyone* wants adoption to fail so that abortions can thrive? Your view of other humans is truly dark if you believe that. It seems as if you _do_ endorse the statements in that lying piece of #### that began this thread.

Adoption has always been expensive (possibly because it always involves lawyers), since long before Roe v. Wade.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


How sweet and welcoming you are. And so respectful to your elders.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:
 

> Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.
> 
> For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.
> 
> My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


Maid, that is the sweetest, saddest, loveliest vision of your father singing to his son. I'll never forget it.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


After taking a rather exhaustive vote, the general consensus of intelligentsia requests that YOU leave, Ms. So. You aren't worthy to buckle the lady's sandal let alone stroke her ego (which is miniscule compared to yours.)

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> All of these problems are happening because society now teaches that its OK and even excusable to do whatever we want. Selfishness is the order of the day! Drugs are readily available and even accepted as a normal part of life. People are criticized for judging the behaviors of others and this is where it leads! Until society demands accountability and goes to the root of the problem, nothing will change.


This is such a simplistic characterization of "society" (which the Conservative Margaret Thatcher claimed doesn't exist) and how things go wrong that I don't even want to talk about specifics. If it were true, we might be able to do something about it, but since it's not, there's no point discussing it.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


At least we won't get fundamentalist apologies from Slowey. She is mean today - most likely her arthritis is acting up.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.
> 
> For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.
> 
> My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


What a sad story, and a beautiful one, too.

Is William James, in your list of people who are gone, your brother?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> I can play for awhile. What game?


I was trying to engage Purl in a little game of REP·AR·TEE, but she gets all serious and won't play!

:hunf:  :hunf:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You are describing every period of history, you know. There have always been prisons, with plenty of people in them. People have always exhibited selfishness. And if not drugs, there has always been alcohol that lead to crimes and has always been accepted as a normal part of life.


Exactly.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer, I'm sure you understand what it means to lose a child. I don't think anyone knows exactly why some babies die of SIDS. I can only believe that finding a dear little baby dead in its bed is one of the very worst things anyone can experience. My mother had 3 living children and 3 miscarriages, somewhat like your experience. We're meant to find the death of a child completely unacceptable. The youngest of us aren't supposed to die. That's what's meant for the oldest of us. 

You're right. There are no words to express the complete sadness of this kind tragedy. At least, we try to describe what happened and find some of the words that express how we feel. We've been doing that here and I think this discussion is just as important as discussing abortion. Perhaps more so.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I was trying to engage Purl in a little game of REP·AR·TEE, but she gets all serious and won't play!
> 
> :hunf:  :hunf:


She may be more willing to play Rep-R-taa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> C'mon Purl, you can do better than that!
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Gerslay
Why bother?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Maid,
When my baby brother was dying of brain cancer (he passed days before his second birthday) my father would go and sit by his crib in the hospital and cry. A nurse that I worked with years later told me-she had no idea that Jimmy was my brother. 
My parents had no more children after him. When my father passed, my mother took great comfort that he and Jimmy were together and she had the baby's remains reinterred with Dad's.
Bless you and your family--


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Even when they type??


Maysmom
Do you think Gerslay is really a thousand monkeys sitting at typewriters trying for Hamlet but instead getting WOW?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> She may be more willing to play Rep-R-taa.


I think its the "Rep" part that she doesn't like...she's afraid that the "Rep"ublicans have the advantage!

Ba-dum-kish!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> At least we won't get fundamentalist apologies from Slowey. She is mean today - most likely her arthritis is acting up.


SQM
Aha. You may be on to something. Let's all forgive her.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I think its the "Rep" part that she doesn't like...she's afraid that the "Rep"ublicans have the advantage!
> 
> Ba-dum-kish!


Shit Ger. You must be psychic. I am in a playwriting class and I had to write a monologue on drum sticks and I used that phrase in it and variations of it. I was just reading it.

What color is the dress I am wearing?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


yup - there is a good answer to that -- don't read my posts. It amuses me that you are so bothered. Oh and I will stay here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> SQM
> Aha. You may be on to something. Let's all forgive her.


I only have one speck of forgiveness in me today and I am not sure if I want to use it on the idiots in Israel who killed that Arabic teen or the idiots in one of the territories that killed the 3 Israeli teens. Or should I just give it to Slowey?????? Coin toss.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shit Ger. You must be psychic. I am in a playwriting class and I had to write a monologue on drum sticks and I used that phrase in it and variations of it. I was just reading it.
> 
> What color is the dress I am wearing?


You're not wearing a dress


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> She may be more willing to play Rep-R-taa.


SQM
Play what? Why don't you go in as pinch hitter? You'd be good at this.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> At least we won't get fundamentalist apologies from Slowey. She is mean today - most likely her arthritis is acting up.


not to worry, she made my day. She must have read my post!!!!


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM...don't say I never gave you anything:

http://badum-tish.com/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Y'all are no fun at all.
> 
> I'm taking the ball and bat and going home!
> 
> :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Gerslay
I'm finding it hard to play word games while the others are speaking of the children and siblings they have lost.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Okay, I gotta go...I have 4 dozen meatballs to make.
Talk amongst yourselves!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Then nobody would know just how righteous she is


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Dear Goddess!
> 
> Could you not wait until payday??
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Maysmom

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: is right!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> You're not wearing a dress


Sorry but your psychic moment is over. Blue house dress.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> All of these problems are happening because society now teaches that its OK and even excusable to do whatever we want. Selfishness is the order of the day! Drugs are readily available and even accepted as a normal part of life. People are criticized for judging the behaviors of others and this is where it leads! Until society demands accountability and goes to the root of the problem, nothing will change.


Knitter from Nebraska
I thought that you were of an age that you would remember the days that even Morphine could be gotten from the Pharmacist without prescription as well as other hard drugs. 
Generally, ways of life have not changed all that much, reporting is what is different. It is the NFORMATION AGE that makes us aware much more. Children born out of wedlock were not the exception but almost the rule. ********* Babies were hidden away as well as others with disabilities and Gays would live a sorry Life of deception. If anything has changed, it is that we are more honest now and care little what others think. Much less pretending and trying to keep up with the Jonses. What we need now is jobs for everyone able to work and Life will be easier than "in the gold old days" (really, good, they were?) I don't think so. In addition, if divorces would not have had such a stigma attached to them (by the holier than thou), the numbers would surely have equaled those of today. Miserable marriages were the rule of the day because women had no rights and suffered in silence. Women were no partners in marriage, they were unpaid Maids. And you want us to return to those times? I am thankful for the liberties granted me and take full avantage of all of them.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> SQM...don't say I never gave you anything:
> 
> http://badum-tish.com/


Exactly what I used in my monologue.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I only have one speck of forgiveness in me today and I am not sure if I want to use it on the idiots in Israel who killed that Arabic teen or the idiots in one of the territories that killed the 3 Israeli teens. Or should I just give it to Slowey?????? Coin toss.


SQM
Heads the Israeli idiots, tails the Palestinian idiots, landing on its edge Solow. Let me know how it comes out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> SQM...don't say I never gave you anything:
> 
> http://badum-tish.com/


Gerslay
How on earth did you find this? It's so dumb and yet so funny.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> The cat is out of the bag? By the way things are going here, I would say that you are in the bag!
> FYI, I received an email from Ingried today. She sends her love.


Bratty, the Ingried I found is a kids' party designer in Jakarta. Sounds more like our kind of gal. Probably create the birthday party to end all birthday parties for your little doll.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


soloweygirl
jealous that we like Designer? She has lots to offer, unlike you and your Peers. She is quite accomplished in many things, what about you?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> C'mon Cheeky, we all know that's you! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Everyone knows that PP is Ingried and dame is Lisa, and I am Susan and acameron is LillyK......


And whom shall we designate Cleopatra, the Queen of Denial? I can think of some candidates.

Maybe I will dub myself Ozma the Omnipotent. Just don't pull down that curtain until I have grabbed my towel.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Maid,
> When my baby brother was dying of brain cancer (he passed days before his second birthday) my father would go and sit by his crib in the hospital and cry. A nurse that I worked with years later told me-she had no idea that Jimmy was my brother.
> My parents had no more children after him. When my father passed, my mother took great comfort that he and Jimmy were together and she had the baby's remains reinterred with Dad's.
> Bless you and your family--


Bless you and your family too. There is a family of us - and we know we are not alone.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> That's good advice. I happened on here today just following up on a vicious post that caught my eye somewhere else. Sure enough - Lisa was there. I can't take the heat, so I get out of the kitchen - although I must say I've seen some friends on here and read some very nice posts.
> 
> It makes me happy to see that - probably seems corny, but it does. Have a lovely evening.


Nice to hear from you Bonnie. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I thought that you were of an age that you would remember the days that even Morphine could be gotten from the Pharmacist without prescription as well as other hard drugs.
> Generally, ways of life have not changed all that much, reporting is what is different. It is the INFORMATION AGE that makes us aware much more. Children born out of wedlock were not the exception but almost the rule. ********* Babies were hidden away as well as others with disabilities and Gays would live a sorry Life of deception. If anything has changed, it is that we are more honest now and care little what others think. Much less pretending and trying to keep up with the Joneses. What we need now is jobs for everyone able to work and Life will be easier than "in the gold old days" (really, good, they were?) I don't think so. In addition, if divorces would not have had such a stigma attached to them (by the holier than thou), the numbers would surely have equaled those of today. Miserable marriages were the rule of the day because women had no rights and suffered in silence. Women were no partners in marriage, they were unpaid Maids. And you want us to return to those times? I am thankful for the liberties granted me and take full advantage of all of them.


Huckleberry
Thank you. We get so caught up in thinking these days are so much worse, and you've shown us in a few sentences how those days were also so much worse. I guess there's never been a good time. We have to make the most of what we've got no matter what time it is.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> At least we won't get fundamentalist apologies from Slowey. She is mean today - most likely her arthritis is acting up.


SQM
PMS is my diagnosis, add weary bones and the War is on full blown. "Suffer my children for you ..............."


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> This sounds like pure Hollywood. What about the girl who was kicked out of her house for getting pregnant? Or a woman on drugs who gives birth? No technicolor movie endings for these babies. Post some sad endings for unwanted babies or don't they exist on your Sunnybrook Farm?


It is too sad to contemplate the fate of babies who were born addicted. They have neurological damage that haunts them for life no matter how lovingly nurtured they are by foster or adoptive parents. As infants they cry much of the time. They have learning issues in school. They have a higher than average danger of becoming addicts as they mature. If they end up being raised by the addicted mother, their chance of being murdered by the mother's next boy friend are very high because they cry so much.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


Soloweygirl
enter your Camper and head for the woods to spare us your ugly spewing. Isolation should do you some good. Anyone around you today must really be ticked. Give them a break


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> if we only could bottle our secret and spread some happiness. It feels so good to be loved, liked and appreciated. Thankful hugs and frequent LIPS make our days pleasant. I wish you many more years of love and laughter, Huck.


You have both probably bottled the same "secret" D and I have. We try to be each other's best friend. We treat each other with the same kindness we appreciate being given to us. When we disagree we do so in a quest to come to a conclusion we can both live with. And D has such a charming smile when he says "Yes, Dear".


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, the last two can't be the same. If you've seen CB's prayers, you'd know immediately she wasn't Catholic, and LTL certainly is. But they could be related.
> 
> But you know they're not related to MarilynKnits, or SQM, or me, who are all the same person, too.


Precious Gem, are we the Three Faces of Eve? Or the Three Musketeers? Or the Three Little Maids from School (are we)?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Someone needs to introduce the two of them so they can each get over having a split personality.
> 
> Just sayin!
> 
> (Oops, almost forgot my smiley face)


And such a sincere looking toothy smiley face, at that. Even if the personality is split, at least it is a personality. More than some people can boast of.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> 'They' are dumb and they don't know it. IMHO


Maybe they do and that is why they get so defensive and why their attempts at making jokes fall so flat.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


Oh, My Goodness. Miss Congeniality is back. With her charming words of wisdom, no less. Or is she just Miss Loser?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is too sad to contemplate the fate of babies who were born addicted. They have neurological damage that haunts them for life no matter how lovingly nurtured they are by foster or adoptive parents. As infants they cry much of the time. They have learning issues in school. They have a higher than average danger of becoming addicts as they mature. If they end up being raised by the addicted mother, their chance of being murdered by the mother's next boy friend are very high because they cry so much.


MarilynKnits
unforunately your example is seen hundred fold in Prisons. Whole families are housed there and the saddest part is that the youngest never had such a regulated Life and are actually looking forward to remaining there. And how many talents can be seen in those places, what a waste.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I think its the "Rep" part that she doesn't like...she's afraid that the "Rep"ublicans have the advantage!
> 
> Ba-dum-kish!


Really? The Rep that comes to mind is Reprehnsible.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> You're not wearing a dress


Woman, where is your mind!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska

At least you're telling us what's on your mind rather than making us what's on our minds. So I know it's honest.

I may (and do) disagree with what you claim are facts - I suspect they come from bigoted sources; even Wikipedia can contain untruth, since anyone can write what they choose on it.

You at least have thought about the problem; I think the author you agreed with gave it no thought except "How can I make liberals look absolutely horrible? Okay, I'll say they all want xxxx."

I don't even know where to start if I'm to be more specific, but women were "sex toys" long before now; in fact, that's all they were when they had no choice about whether or not to have sex. Not just any toys but the lifesize rubber dolls with open mouths and other orifices.

I simply don't believe that doctors performing abortions are doing the horrible things you claim. Descriptions like those have been fabricated to appeal to people who are already convinced, and I think you're one of them.

I don't see why you sent us to the Wikipedia articles on Tiller and Carhart, when they are definitely shown not to be the monsters you claim they are but doctors doing for their patients what the patients need. Nor did they go around the law to do it. It saddens me that you're so quick to fall for obvious lies to make what ought to be a legitimate point.

I agree, abortion is not a pleasant or painless procedure and has many psychological repercussions as well. But to describe all those who favor choice as demons is not going to bring anyone over to your side - it is more likely to turn us off, as Joey's posts have. In fact, the article on Carhart said that abortion was only a small part of his practice before some RWNs burned down his house and barn, killing 17 horses and 2 family pets. After that, he decided to make abortion his full-time practice.

And when you say "I believe its part of an agenda to destroy society and bring down our country," I can't help thinking that such an idea is nuts.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> First of all, does my agreeing with what the author has said make me guilty of generalizing, as I so hate? I guess so and I apologize. There is no group in which everyone believes the same. But for the sake of responding, I'll go forward. I strongly believe that women are being deceived. I agree with the author that THIS is the real war on women. While there are some who are working to convince us that all of this is about women's rights, I believe that it has become about denigrating us and turning us into little more than animals. They've tried to cheapen us and turn us into sex toys. I believe its part of an agenda to destroy society and bring down our country. I know that no one will watch this, but here's a video explaining the agenda.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Maybe they do and that is why they get so defensive and why their attempts at making jokes fall so flat.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> All of these problems are happening because society now teaches that its OK and even excusable to do whatever we want. Selfishness is the order of the day! Drugs are readily available and even accepted as a normal part of life. People are criticized for judging the behaviors of others and this is where it leads! Until society demands accountability and goes to the root of the problem, nothing will change.


* please read this post for those who think it is worse now than in the past*

Yes Neb --I agree with you that things have changed since I was a child -- Drugs, as you say are more prevalent however there were lots of underground drugs available.- there is more knowledge available, the computer has brought the world to our doors as has TV. We are more aware of many things that are happening than we were when I was a child.

However, I don't see how you can change it back to the way it was. It wasn't that wonderful then. . There was a huge amount of poverty, there were many people who were destitute. Abortions were done down back alleys and hidden . There was very little help for people who were not able to look after themselves. 
They were put in prison- like hospitals and forgotten about.

I had a cousin that was put away as she was Downs Syndrome she was called a *********. There was no help for my Aunt who also was married to a man who hated the child ,with no income-she kept her at home until she was five. There was no medical care for her available - there was no understanding of Downs then and the family were isolated as people had no idea how devastating it was for My Aunt

Very few helped them face that situation. My cousin was put in an institution I knew something had happened but there was shame attached. I dread the thought of what went on in that institution.

.Polio was a horrendous disease which has been wiped out. I saw people in 'iron lungs' that breathed for them. Then medicine was found to stop polio.

There was an orphanage for children whose parents died here in the city where I was born. Yes some Christian Charities ran it, but there was abuse and poverty and no real care for those children who lived there, some until they were adults, and then they were put out on the streets.

There was a terrible time when abuse stories came out once the abused children grew up - troubled and in many cases emotionally damaged. The mental institutions were full. It was a peaceful time then in my memory, but I had a father who was not laid off and we were able to live.

My grandmother raised 5 children and then took in two of us when my mother died - until my Dad married again. She had no pension and I don't to this day, know how she raised 5 children - I know she scrubbed floors for more well to do people, but I also know we ate potatoes alone, sometimes four or five days at a time as that is all we had - or neighbours who had gardens would bring left over produce (She did raise potatoes) but was too busy raising 5 children who she kept spotless by scrubbing their clothes on a scrub board every monday and scrubbing floors for people the rest of the week. There were no pensions. My Grandfather had done fairly well but died early of a heart attack. She was a Christian, the very best kind and her faith helped her survive.

There was no knowledge given to young people about sex, no 
contraceptives. People did help each other but not much could be done. During the Depression men moved all over looking for work so that they could support their families to no avail.. People starved. Children died of Polio or were terribly crippled. children had rickets which is unheard of now. Measles would wipe out families. A mild flue- killed many people. My step mother was a wonderful nurse,She was born in l900 and trained in nursing but she scrubbed floors as part of her job. She often told us stories about nursing.

Women were stuck in dreadful marriages - because they were second class citizens - and to leave your husband even though he might be beating you and your children made no difference to society. She had no sympathy or rights. Gays were not even discussed and young people lived in misery as they didn't understand why they were 'different'.

There were no pensions that I remember - Unions were finally starting to change what was happening - It took until the 60's and 70's for unions to protect their employees. Now they are a bad word.

There were the people who had enough to live on well, and the people who had nothing. Do you really think it was better then? I don't.

People died early of heart attacks, cancer, infections, - hospitals were over crowded. That was normal then. There are others on these threads who remember these things. Some of the things I mentioned were maybe 5 - 10 years before my time. The first and second world wars killed thousands of our men -- the second changed women's lives - They found out that they were not 'less than men' for the first time. They couldn't be completely put back in the box then.

I agree with you, that things are not the same - I think it is better now. That is why I believe in Womens' rights, and Childrens' rights, and insurance and health care.

I lived through that time -. Others on these threads lived through that time too. It wasn't that much different in the US.

That is why I am a liberal - and will always be one. 
-------------------------------
This one is for Joey -- complain away.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, My Goodness. Miss Congeniality is back. With her charming words of wisdom, no less. Or is she just Miss Loser?


MarilynKnits
Do you remember the old joke, most of which I've forgotten, where someone is asked to sing solo, which turns out to mean "so low we can't hear you." I often think of that when Little Mary Sunshine pops up to detract from the conversation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Really? The Rep that comes to mind is Reprehensible.


MarilynKnits
You got it.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> MarilynKnits
> Do you remember the old joke, most of which I've forgotten, where someone is asked to sing solo, which turns out to mean "so low we can't hear you." I often think of that when Little Mary Sunshine pops up to detract from the conversation.


Good one. I had forgotten that one.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> No, I did not make him. He is part of a Music Box but right now is "chairing" my posts. Even I need supervision - at least now and then - you understand, don't you.


Haha! At first I thought it was a kangaroo. But his face didn't look right. Keep in mind the pic on my tablet is about 3\4" x 1". What musical tune does he play? Pop goes the weasel? That's what most music boxes with monkeys play. At least I think so.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> * please read this post for those who think it is worse now than in the past*
> 
> Yes Neb --I agree with you that things have changed since I was a child -- Drugs, as you say are more prevalent however there were lots of underground drugs available.- there is more knowledge available, the computer has brought the world to our doors as has TV. We are more aware of many things that are happening than we were when I was a child.
> 
> ...


Designer1234
Thank you for this walk down a very gloomy Memory Lane.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> .Polio was a horrendous disease which has been wiped out. I saw people in 'iron lungs' that breathed for them. Then medicine was found to stop polio. Children died of Polio or were terribly crippled.


Just going to comment on this one aspect of your thoughtful remarks. I have two friends, both older than I, who had polio as children. Each was left with one leg appreciably shorter than the other. Each had specially built up shoes so they could walk with a semblance of steadiness.

However, as they aged they were stricken with post polio syndrome and each ended up in wheel chairs unable to live independently.

When I hear of people refusing to immunize their children because they have been misled by uninformed alarmists, I think of Lil and Celie and would not wish their fate on anyone. The saving grace in each one's life was having a lovely husband and attentive children.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Designer1234
> Thank you for this walk down a very gloomy Memory Lane.


you are welcome. I don't think some of the younger people on these thread have any idea. I don't believe that it is hopeless as long as people still fight for other people who don't have as much and who care about each other. That is why I am, and always will be a liberal, I am not able to be anything else.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Precious Gem, are we the Three Faces of Eve? Or the Three Musketeers? Or the Three Little Maids from School (are we)?


MarilynKnits
Perhaps the Trinity. Or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My brother never came home from the hospital. As an adult I began to understand what my parents had gone through and how difficult it was for them to carry on. They did a good job of that so I have a lot of respect for how they managed. I've also learned that grief for that kind of loss never really goes away. People somehow learn to live with so many tragedies. Isn't it unfortunate that some people seem to have no compassion?


It WAS tragic! But IMO, it would have been even more tragic if they'd had to live with the knowledge that they'd killed him. Instead, they loved him while he was here and greived him when he was gone.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You have both probably bottled the same "secret" D and I have. We try to be each other's best friend. We treat each other with the same kindness we appreciate being given to us. When we disagree we do so in a quest to come to a conclusion we can both live with. And D has such a charming smile when he says "Yes, Dear".


MarylinKnits
In our Home, no discourse lasts longer than 5 minutes - as we are reaching for the timer, laughter starts and it is all over.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Designer1234
> 
> You realize, don't you, that a foreign (?) voice is at least as important as a local one. You can see more from a distance than from close up. Very interesting post.


I agree! We gain much from hearing and learning from others. The only thing is, I'd like to hear more about Canada. I find it interesting. Its too easy to assume we're just alike. I'd like to hear how we're different.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> 
> Who are you confused with?


Who's Ingried? Actually I was joking about all the who's who stuff. I think I know everybody but Ingried. Admittedly, sometimes I've had to ask.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now Ingried you know you said I was a rose among the thorns. :wink:


Is Huck Ingried? Or is she Lisa? Or sockpuppy? I give up! :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> you are welcome. I don't think some of the younger people on these thread have any idea. I don't believe that it is hopeless as long as people still fight for other people who don't have as much and who care about each other. That is why I am, and always will be a liberal, I am not able to be anything else.


Well, it looks very good on you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't forget "grammaollie" (probably spelled that wrong).


OK, I tried to Google this and nothing came up. What is grammaollie?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry
> Wise in the sense of "wisecrack."
> Basket cases in the sense of "basket cases."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It was a long time ago, but people ask about her from time to time.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Has someone posted under the name Ingried? I'm lost. I hear reference to it but I don't remember an Ingried.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! We gain much from hearing and learning from others. The only thing is, I'd like to hear more about Canada. I find it interesting. Its too easy to assume we're just alike. I'd like to hear how we're different.


Ask away on Neutral Bridges and I am sure that WCK and I might be able to tell you;

There are a lot of differences - mostly in attitude - some things are very different but it seems more and more we are having the same problems and the same discussions at home. I am sure WCK would agree. There are differences that are hard to explain, and certainly differences in how we look at some important things.

One thing that isn't different - you can talk to l0 different people and there will be differences how they feel about Canada. One thing we all feel, like in the States, is love for our country. I am very proud to be a Canadian and so are all of us. Just the same as you are all proud to be Americans. We have differences too, but hopefully we won't get ourselves into the situation you have here. So far there are strong feelings but it is 'just politics' we don't carry grudges (so far -- I Pray it will never reach this stage). Ask away. Best on the other thread.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Get a grip Neb. Abortions have always been with us and always will. The matter is whether you want to go back to the antediluvian back alley abortions or safe ones. You are telling me that with 7 billion people (not sure about this number) on a grossly overcrowded Earth that we need more people?
> 
> I am terribly bored with arguing this topic. For now it is the law of the land. Most Americans want to keep it so. Spend your time and efforts on raising funds for better contraception. That makes better sense.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wish you peace.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.
> 
> For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.
> 
> My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rats.



SQM said:


> I can play for awhile. What game?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> 
> At least you're telling us what's on your mind rather than making us what's on our minds. So I know it's honest.
> 
> ...


Poor Purl
your insight is astounding. Your last sentence on the button. This whole abortion issue is a fabricated one. It brings in bucks for the Pro-Life Lawyers so that their Retainers remain high and steady. Abortions are as old as Mankind and the only thing that has changed is that women do not have to die from them and can have pleasant future pregnancies unlike in the "olden days" when their reproductive organs often were mutilated. The childless Aunt often (very often) had an illegal abortion and her reproduction suffered terribly. Whose family did not have such a relative, I ask the opponents of choice. Certainly in the past the number of women remaining childless (who wanted children) were higher than now. And that's the truth.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> MarilynKnits
> Do you remember the old joke, most of which I've forgotten, where someone is asked to sing solo, which turns out to mean "so low we can't hear you." I often think of that when Little Mary Sunshine pops up to detract from the conversation.


or tenor (ten or twelve miles away!)which would be handy too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK, I tried to Google this and nothing came up. What is grammaollie?


Don't Google it. Use the KP User List. You'll find Ingried there, too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I thought that you were of an age that you would remember the days that even Morphine could be gotten from the Pharmacist without prescription as well as other hard drugs.
> Generally, ways of life have not changed all that much, reporting is what is different. It is the NFORMATION AGE that makes us aware much more. Children born out of wedlock were not the exception but almost the rule. ********* Babies were hidden away as well as others with disabilities and Gays would live a sorry Life of deception. If anything has changed, it is that we are more honest now and care little what others think. Much less pretending and trying to keep up with the Jonses. What we need now is jobs for everyone able to work and Life will be easier than "in the gold old days" (really, good, they were?) I don't think so. In addition, if divorces would not have had such a stigma attached to them (by the holier than thou), the numbers would surely have equaled those of today. Miserable marriages were the rule of the day because women had no rights and suffered in silence. Women were no partners in marriage, they were unpaid Maids. And you want us to return to those times? I am thankful for the liberties granted me and take full avantage of all of them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Get a grip Neb. Abortions have always been with us and always will. The matter is whether you want to go back to the antediluvian back alley abortions or safe ones. You are telling me that with 7 billion people (not sure about this number) on a grossly overcrowded Earth that we need more people?
> 
> I am terribly bored with arguing this topic. For now it is the law of the land. Most Americans want to keep it so. Spend your time and efforts on raising funds for better contraception. That makes better sense.


Wow! This is dismissive! I didn't bring up the topic nor the comment. I was only responding. I've never stated that I wanted women to have back alley abortions. I've only ever said that I want women to have babies they WANT! I want them to WANT their babies! I WANT them to NOT make babies they dont want! I WANT all babies to be valued and not be considered, disposable! I want all human life to be valued. If we can't stop abortion, we can certainly reduce their number. I believe that's up to society, each of us.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry
> Thank you. We get so caught up in thinking these days are so much worse, and you've shown us in a few sentences how those days were also so much worse. I guess there's never been a good time. We have to make the most of what we've got no matter what time it is.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always called her "so low".....hoping she would quiet down.



Poor Purl said:


> MarilynKnits
> Do you remember the old joke, most of which I've forgotten, where someone is asked to sing solo, which turns out to mean "so low we can't hear you." I often think of that when Little Mary Sunshine pops up to detract from the conversation.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She is still a good friend but not active in KP. I think she was active 2011-2013....many moons ago.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Who's Ingried? Actually I was joking about all the who's who stuff. I think I know everybody but Ingried. Admittedly, sometimes I've had to ask.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Who knows and does it matter?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Is Huck Ingried? Or is she Lisa? Or sockpuppy? I give up! :lol:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Sorry - Apology to Joey - my post was especially dedicated to 
Solo. Although on second thought Joey might enjoy it too.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter fo Nebraska
> adopting means sacrifice. I am glad strict measures are in place before a Baby is handed over and still adoptions are not always providing a good life. Speak with those who suffered because they were "not perfect". When Genes clash, the War is on, unfortuntely. "...want adoptions to fail..."? that is crazy (actually wanted to use a harsher term).


There is something wrong when its easier and cheaper to abort a baby than adopt one. Our government is willing to fund abortions but not adoptions. Why? I'm not suggesting that a baby should just be handed over. But unless you've adopted, you have no idea of the hoops and expenses involved. We were exceedingly lucky because our attorney and the attorney assigned to be our daughter's guardian ad litem, charged us very little. They knew our circumstances and those of our daughter. The adoption agency charged us less for the same reason. But our expenses were still in the thousands(8-9g). Not everybody can afford to save a child! Our government is willing to extend their largesse to children of people who come here illegally but not to our own children. Those, we should abort!

As to your comment, " Speak with those who suffered because they were not perfect". I speak with one of "those" at least once a week! As I said, my oldest son has Cerebral Palsy! His life is not easy! He often suffers pain from his condition. He's 37 and has the body of a 70 year old. He rarely complains. He almost always gives his time to others. When he was a child he suffered the humiliation and teasing of other children. This was the worst he had to endure. But I know that he would never regret his life!

Because I had a handicapped son, my life naturally led me to other handicapped people. I've never met one who regretted being alive. I'm sure there are some out there, just as there are able bodied people who regret being alive. It is a very dangerous thing to assume we know what they want or need. Handicapped people have to work harder for every bit of enjoyment, but its my knowledge and experience that they DO!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since my brother never came home from the hospital he was kind of an idea instead of a reality for me. I do, however, remember that home was a pretty dark place for a little while. My parents had one more son when I was 7, and we always joke that my parents had two only children and my brother had three parents. My mother is the youngest of 6 girls, all of whom had at least three children, and one made it all the way to having six. I've always believed that my parents would have done really well with a very large family, say like with 10 children.
> 
> For a couple of years after my other brother died I was very curious about where he was. Where was he buried? Could we go visit his grave? These questions went gently unanswered, until my father was dying and he talked about what he and my mother knew which was that the child's cremains were stored at home.
> 
> My father talked about privately holding the little box my brother's remains were in and singing to him, so that he wouldn't feel he was all alone. That to me, entirely describes the experience both of my parents went through. At least, according to my personal beliefs, my father and brother are now reunited, both being the ideal of who they were intended to be.


Oh, Maid! Thank you for sharing your family's story!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> You are describing every period of history, you know. There have always been prisons, with plenty of people in them. People have always exhibited selfishness. And if not drugs, there has always been alcohol that lead to crimes and has always been accepted as a normal part of life.


No other country has or had, as many people in prison, as we have now. Not even China! Crime and drug use are rampant. And yet, we feed our children a steady diet of it on TV. They've become inured to the harm they do to others. They sit in front of the TV and learn to emulate the garbage they call, "reality TV". They learn that this is how they should behave. Its cool! It makes you a star! Today in our country is like no other!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> MIB- I am so sorry you had this tragedy in your family. I know that grief - and your parents carried it with them obviously their whole lives. We lost one at 3 months {SIDS} and 3 miscarriages - one was nearly full term. I have no words to cover the sadness.


Shirley, I share your pain. Its a great you never get over! Hugs to you!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


I suspect that this comment feeds your ego also. Hmmmm?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There is something wrong when its easier and cheaper to abort a baby than adopt one. Our government is willing to fund abortions but not adoptions. Why? I'm not suggesting that a baby should just be handed over. But unless you've adopted, you have no idea of the hoops and expenses involved. We were exceedingly lucky because our attorney and the attorney assigned to be our daughter's guardian ad litem, charged us very little. They knew our circumstances and those of our daughter. The adoption agency charged us less for the same reason. But our expenses were still in the thousands(8-9g). Not everybody can afford to save a child! Our government is willing to extend their largesse to children of people who come here illegally but not to our own children. Those, we should abort!
> 
> As to your comment, " Speak with those who suffered because they were not perfect". I speak with one of "those" at least once a week! As I said, my oldest son has Cerebral Palsy! His life is not easy! He often suffers pain from his condition. He's 37 and has the body of a 70 year old. He rarely complains. He almost always gives his time to others. When he was a child he suffered the humiliation and teasing of other children. This was the worst he had to endure. But I know that he would never regret his life!
> 
> Because I had a handicapped son, my life naturally led me to other handicapped people. I've never met one who regretted being alive. I'm sure there are some out there, just as there are able bodied people who regret being alive. It is a very dangerous thing to assume we know what they want or need. Handicapped people have to work harder for every bit of enjoyment, but its my knowledge and experience that they DO!


I understand why you feel so strongly. I have told you about what has made me who I am - I appreciate it that you are telling us what has made you who you are. I am sorry that it happened to your son. I hope he is okay.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really think *anyone* wants adoption to fail so that abortions can thrive? Your view of other humans is truly dark if you believe that. It seems as if you _do_ endorse the statements in that lying piece of #### that began this thread.
> 
> Adoption has always been expensive (possibly because it always involves lawyers), since long before Roe v. Wade.


OK, then! Explain to me why the government will pay for abortions and not adoptions? Why are they so eager to make it easy to abort a baby but do NOTHING to help a baby that's already been born? They have no problem spending tons of money to put that child in foster care or juvie, but nothing to help them get adopted! Only the poorest people get adoption assistance. And those people aren't usually the ones seeking to adopt.

I DO believe there is darkness in this world! I do believe that there are those in power who think we need to reduce the population. Look up the writings of John Holdren, Obama's science czar. He and others advocate the masses having to get government permission to procreate. There are and have been many, either directly or indirectly involved with our government, who advocate forced population control. And in fact, our own government has in the past, forced population control on those considered "undesirable".

I get accused of being dark. Acknowledging darkness around me does not necessarily make me dark. I seek truth and knowledge. Sometimes that truth is wonderful, sometimes it is dark!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I suspect that this comment feeds your ego also. Hmmmm?


Don't worry, she is repeating herself - I am not surprised or bothered by it. I actually find she eggs me on to post more.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK, then! Explain to me why the government will pay for abortions and not adoptions? Why are they so eager to make it easy to abort a baby but do NOTHING to help a baby that's already been born? They have no problem spending tons of money to put that child in foster care or juvie, but nothing to help them get adopted! Only the poorest people get adoption assistance. And those people aren't usually the ones seeking to adopt.
> 
> I DO believe there is darkness in this world! I do believe that there are those in power who think we need to reduce the population. Look up the writings of John Holdren, Obama's science czar. He and others advocate the masses having to get government permission to procreate. There are and have been many, either directly or indirectly involved with our government, who advocate forced population control. And in fact, our own government has in the past, forced population control on those considered "undesirable".
> 
> I get accused of being dark. Acknowledging darkness around me does not necessarily make me dark. I seek truth and knowledge. Sometimes that truth is wonderful, sometimes it is dark!


We adopted a little girl and adoption didn't cost us anything. I am not sure about now - will have to find that out. I would certainly hope that adoption would be an option rather than abortion. It should be something that is achievable without a huge cost. I know that some types of adoption do cost here - but straightforward adoptions are something I am not sure about. I will find out.

She brought joy to our lives from the time she was 8 days old.

*I am back - it looks like there is a cost - especially if it is done privately. Here is a link to all that information. This is for B.C. each Province has possibly different charges. This is an example.

http://www.bcadoption.com/node/564/*

Certainly, adoption is a better choice. Do you think that people on here would not prefer a child be adopted? I would think every one of us would prefer that. So, the laws should be changed to make adoption easier and less expensive.

If those on the right fought the battle for adoption don't you think it would make a difference?

Fight that fight - I really think that is an option for many people if it was available and easy to obtain.- why is there not more anger about the fact that adoptions are expensive and difficult? That would make more sense to me personally.

I would love to see that Adoption becomes the main answer. I am sure that any thinking person agrees with that. Right now it is not the main answer. Fight the battle of making adoptions easier.

However, I still believe with all my being that a woman should have the right to chose. I don't think there is anyway that I would want a woman to have those type of choices made by a Church, or a Man, or even a Government.

This is my opinion only. I don't speak for anyone else.

These problems have been happening long before the last two elections. That is something that few admit.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There is something wrong when its easier and cheaper to abort a baby than adopt one. Our government is willing to fund abortions but not adoptions. Why? I'm not suggesting that a baby should just be handed over. But unless you've adopted, you have no idea of the hoops and expenses involved. We were exceedingly lucky because our attorney and the attorney assigned to be our daughter's guardian ad litem, charged us very little. They knew our circumstances and those of our daughter. The adoption agency charged us less for the same reason. But our expenses were still in the thousands(8-9g). Not everybody can afford to save a child! Our government is willing to extend their largesse to children of people who come here illegally but not to our own children. Those, we should abort!
> 
> As to your comment, " Speak with those who suffered because they were not perfect". I speak with one of "those" at least once a week! As I said, my oldest son has Cerebral Palsy! His life is not easy! He often suffers pain from his condition. He's 37 and has the body of a 70 year old. He rarely complains. He almost always gives his time to others. When he was a child he suffered the humiliation and teasing of other children. This was the worst he had to endure. But I know that he would never regret his life!
> 
> Because I had a handicapped son, my life naturally led me to other handicapped people. I've never met one who regretted being alive. I'm sure there are some out there, just as there are able bodied people who regret being alive. It is a very dangerous thing to assume we know what they want or need. Handicapped people have to work harder for every bit of enjoyment, but its my knowledge and experience that they DO!


Well said! :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK, then! Explain to me why the government will pay for abortions and not adoptions? Why are they so eager to make it easy to abort a baby but do NOTHING to help a baby that's already been born? They have no problem spending tons of money to put that child in foster care or juvie, but nothing to help them get adopted! Only the poorest people get adoption assistance. And those people aren't usually the ones seeking to adopt.
> 
> I DO believe there is darkness in this world! I do believe that there are those in power who think we need to reduce the population. Look up the writings of John Holdren, Obama's science czar. He and others advocate the masses having to get government permission to procreate. There are and have been many, either directly or indirectly involved with our government, who advocate forced population control. And in fact, our own government has in the past, forced population control on those considered "undesirable".
> 
> I get accused of being dark. Acknowledging darkness around me does not necessarily make me dark. I seek truth and knowledge. Sometimes that truth is wonderful, sometimes it is dark!


I am sorry Neb -- I just don't buy that. So many things are stated which I do not believe are facts.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is such a simplistic characterization of "society" (which the Conservative Margaret Thatcher claimed doesn't exist) and how things go wrong that I don't even want to talk about specifics. If it were true, we might be able to do something about it, but since it's not, there's no point discussing it.


Are you saying that Thatcher didnt believe that "society" existed? I didn't know that. I believe that people in general, have a herd mentality. They follow a leader and don't want to stand out. That herd is society. I also think that TV has a tremendous impact on the beliefs and behaviors of people. I think that programming aimed at each generation of viewers has deteriorated. I think that young people today, are actually encouraged towards self centeredness and even depravity. Drug use, sexuality, corruption and violence are displayed in all their glory. I believe that the music industry has the same effect. These influences on society are great. I think that unless and until society demands better programming, the day will come when we won't recognize our world. Anyway, its not the only influence but a huge one.

Dinners ready! Gotta go!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Wow! This is dismissive! I didn't bring up the topic nor the comment. I was only responding. I've never stated that I wanted women to have back alley abortions. I've only ever said that I want women to have babies they WANT! I want them to WANT their babies! I WANT them to NOT make babies they dont want! I WANT all babies to be valued and not be considered, disposable! I want all human life to be valued. If we can't stop abortion, we can certainly reduce their number. I believe that's up to society, each of us.


Knitter from Nebraska
why are you pointing at Women only? Does it not take two to create a new Life? Did you teach your Boys to respect women and keep their stuff in their pants until they can take full responsibility for the possible result of sex? Are Women of lesser worth than Men in your World just because they show signs of hanky panky? Explain please. I am sick and tired of Women being attacked while guys go their merry way and spread their stuff leisurely. Pregnant Women need compassion and not your ire.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> your insight is astounding. Your last sentence on the button. This whole abortion issue is a fabricated one. It brings in bucks for the Pro-Life Lawyers so that their Retainers remain high and steady. Abortions are as old as Mankind and the only thing that has changed is that women do not have to die from them and can have pleasant future pregnancies unlike in the "olden days" when their reproductive organs often were mutilated. The childless Aunt often (very often) had an illegal abortion and her reproduction suffered terribly. Whose family did not have such a relative, I ask the opponents of choice. Certainly in the past the number of women remaining childless (who wanted children) were higher than now. And that's the truth.


Huck, I don't know if it's fabricated, but it's always been around, so why these RWs act as if they'd just discovered it is beyond me. The problem is one of POV: they're so caught up in the "fetus is baby" belief that they ignore the rest of the family, who may suffer because of one more child, or the mother alone, for whom pregnancy and childbirth may be a dangerous situation. To them, it's fetus vs. mom, and they're only on the side of the fetus. I think to us it's one woman and what she does with her body. I don't understand why their scientists (if there are such people) don't work on making it possible to remove the fetus from the womb and transfer it to another womb, natural or artificial. Then they can take care of the baby and the woman can go on with her life.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you saying that Thatcher didnt believe that "society" existed? I didn't know that. I believe that people in general, have a herd mentality. They follow a leader and don't want to stand out. That herd is society. I also think that TV has a tremendous impact on the beliefs and behaviors of people. I think that programming aimed at each generation of viewers has deteriorated. I think that young people today, are actually encouraged towards self centeredness and even depravity. Drug use, sexuality, corruption and violence are displayed in all their glory. I believe that the music industry has the same effect. These influences on society are great. I think that unless and until society demands better programming, the day will come when we won't recognize our world. Anyway, its not the only influence but a huge one.
> 
> Dinners ready! Gotta go!


Knitter from Nebraska
We have choices and the freedom to choose. I wonder how many freak shows you view, I have never seen a realty show. I can however state that in years past the songs were not all peaches and cream either. And why is the older generation so hooked on Bonnie and Clyde, Scar Face and bloody Wars? Does that speak of gentleness to you? Why is there such gun support by older folks? Are they looking for Peace, honestly? Give this some thought.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> or tenor (ten or twelve miles away!)which would be handy too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Never mind


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Never forget that there are many good things in our country. You seem so 'dark' sometimes, ready to believe the worst. It worries me.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> No other country has or had, as many people in prison, as we have now. Not even China! Crime and drug use are rampant. And yet, we feed our children a steady diet of it on TV. They've become inured to the harm they do to others. They sit in front of the TV and learn to emulate the garbage they call, "reality TV". They learn that this is how they should behave. Its cool! It makes you a star! Today in our country is like no other!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Maid,
> When my baby brother was dying of brain cancer (he passed days before his second birthday) my father would go and sit by his crib in the hospital and cry. A nurse that I worked with years later told me-she had no idea that Jimmy was my brother.
> My parents had no more children after him. When my father passed, my mother took great comfort that he and Jimmy were together and she had the baby's remains reinterred with Dad's.
> Bless you and your family--


I'm so sorry, maysmom! My husband's sister was killed in a sledding accident when she was seven. Mil takes great comfort in knowing that fil is with Laura. I can't help but think he's getting to know his little great grandbabies too! There is nothing worse than the loss of a child.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am troubled by the tendency not to offer a child for adoption.

Now it is common for a young teenager to decide to keep her baby condemning them both to poverty. Sometimes it is the grandparents and other family who demand to keep the child rather than giving the child an opportunity for adoption.

It seems short-sighted and selfish to me. I am always looking for the benefit of the child.



Designer1234 said:


> We adopted a little girl and adoption didn't cost us anything. I am not sure about now - will have to find that out. I would certainly hope that adoption would be an option rather than abortion. It should be something that is achievable without a huge cost. I know that some types of adoption do cost here - but straightforward adoptions are something I am not sure about. I will find out.
> 
> She brought joy to our lives from the time she was 8 days old.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting thought.



Poor Purl said:


> Huck, I don't know if it's fabricated, but it's always been around, so why these RWs act as if they'd just discovered it is beyond me. The problem is one of POV: they're so caught up in the "fetus is baby" belief that they ignore the rest of the family, who may suffer because of one more child, or the mother alone, for whom pregnancy and childbirth may be a dangerous situation. To them, it's fetus vs. mom, and they're only on the side of the fetus. I think to us it's one woman and what she does with her body. I don't understand why their scientists (if there are such people) don't work on making it possible to remove the fetus from the womb and transfer it to another womb, natural or artificial. Then they can take care of the baby and the woman can go on with her life.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK, then! Explain to me why the government will pay for abortions and not adoptions? Why are they so eager to make it easy to abort a baby but do NOTHING to help a baby that's already been born? They have no problem spending tons of money to put that child in foster care or juvie, but nothing to help them get adopted! Only the poorest people get adoption assistance. And those people aren't usually the ones seeking to adopt.
> 
> I DO believe there is darkness in this world! I do believe that there are those in power who think we need to reduce the population. Look up the writings of John Holdren, Obama's science czar. He and others advocate the masses having to get government permission to procreate. There are and have been many, either directly or indirectly involved with our government, who advocate forced population control. And in fact, our own government has in the past, forced population control on those considered "undesirable".
> 
> I get accused of being dark. Acknowledging darkness around me does not necessarily make me dark. I seek truth and knowledge. Sometimes that truth is wonderful, sometimes it is dark!


Again, the government does NOT pay for abortion. NOT NOT NOT. It would be against the law.

Why do you think it does?

Did _you _look up the writings of John Holdren? Or did you accept what Fox and the Washington Times said about him without question?



> Last week, Chris Mooney described how the Washington Times and a cadre of right-wing bloggers have been fearmongering about John Holdren, President Obamas science adviser and Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy. Now FoxNews has jumped on the bandwagon with a story implying that Holdren advocated radical population control measures, a claim that is simply not the case, as he has made clear both in recent statements and in his Senate testimony. The repeated mischaracterization of his work and positions is a distraction from current pressing matters of science policy.
> 
> At issue is a chapter of the 1977 textbook Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, for which Holdren was the third author with environmental activists Paul and Anne Ehrlich. First of all, FoxNews gets the name of the man in question wrong in the opening line of the story, claiming the Presidents science adviser is Paul Holdren, and referring to him as a science czar, a title suggesting that he was appointed without Congressional oversight. But after he testified before the Commerce, Science and Transportation committee, the Senate voted unanimously to confirm John Holdren as director of OSTP.
> Mooney also pointed out that FoxNews commentator Sean Hannity is confused about how Holdren came to his post, claiming on air that <Obama has> skirted the Senate confirmation process and has empowered individuals to see major offices now within the federal government, many of whom operate only under the supervision of the White House itself. Again, for the benefit of the Fox researchers, heres the video of the Senate testimony <it has since been removed or placed elsewhere>.
> ...


There's more, but you probably won't believe that, either. http://scienceprogress.org/2009/07/right-wing-attacks-on-science-adviser-continue/

After Holdren, Tiller, and Carhart, I'm not going to bother looking up anyone you see as evil. I can just take it for granted that they're not.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you saying that Thatcher didnt believe that "society" existed? I didn't know that. I believe that people in general, have a herd mentality. They follow a leader and don't want to stand out. That herd is society. I also think that TV has a tremendous impact on the beliefs and behaviors of people. I think that programming aimed at each generation of viewers has deteriorated. I think that young people today, are actually encouraged towards self centeredness and even depravity. Drug use, sexuality, corruption and violence are displayed in all their glory. I believe that the music industry has the same effect. These influences on society are great. I think that unless and until society demands better programming, the day will come when we won't recognize our world. Anyway, its not the only influence but a huge one.
> 
> Dinners ready! Gotta go!


Enjoy dinner. I'm only going to speak about Thatcher:



Margaret Thatcher said:


> There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.


It's a nice quote, isn't it?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Three strikes & you're out.



Poor Purl said:


> There's more, but you probably won't believe that, either. http://scienceprogress.org/2009/07/right-wing-attacks-on-science-adviser-continue/
> 
> After Holdren, Tiller, and Carhart, I'm not going to bother looking up anyone you see as evil. I can just take it for granted that they're not.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Three strikes & you're out.


Exactly. But at least I got to see pictures of John Holdren, who's really cute for an old man.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, I don't know if it's fabricated, but it's always been around, so why these RWs act as if they'd just discovered it is beyond me. The problem is one of POV: they're so caught up in the "fetus is baby" belief that they ignore the rest of the family, who may suffer because of one more child, or the mother alone, for whom pregnancy and childbirth may be a dangerous situation. To them, it's fetus vs. mom, and they're only on the side of the fetus. I think to us it's one woman and what she does with her body. I don't understand why their scientists (if there are such people) don't work on making it possible to remove the fetus from the womb and transfer it to another womb, natural or artificial. Then they can take care of the baby and the woman can go on with her life.


Poor Purl
transplantation of a fetus would be critical for all involved I am quite sure and I opt for the lesser risk. We are already burdened for decades with horrendous cost because VERY premature Babies were kept alive and some of the Babies need constant care throughout their Lives. Please, I am not saying they should not have been saved, I am just looking at reality and possible prevention of further problems.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, I don't know if it's fabricated, but it's always been around, so why these RWs act as if they'd just discovered it is beyond me. The problem is one of POV: they're so caught up in the "fetus is baby" belief that they ignore the rest of the family, who may suffer because of one more child, or the mother alone, for whom pregnancy and childbirth may be a dangerous situation. To them, it's fetus vs. mom, and they're only on the side of the fetus. I think to us it's one woman and what she does with her body. I don't understand why their scientists (if there are such people) don't work on making it possible to remove the fetus from the womb and transfer it to another womb, natural or artificial. Then they can take care of the baby and the woman can go on with her life.


Poor Purl
transplantation of a fetus would be critical for all involved I am quite sure and I opt for the lesser risk. We are already burdened for decades with horrendous cost because VERY premature Babies were kept alive and some of the Babies need constant care throughout their Lives. Please, I am not saying they should not have been saved, I am just looking at reality and possible prevention of further problems.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ayn Rand aficionado was she? I know the answer to that rhetorical question.



Poor Purl said:


> It's a nice quote, isn't it?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent consideration. Thank you.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> transplantation of a fetus would be critical for all involved I am quite sure and I opt for the lesser risk. We are already burdened for decades with horrendous cost because VERY premature Babies were kept alive and some of the Babies need constant care throughout their Lives. Please, I am not saying they should not have been saved, I am just looking at reality and possible prevention of further problems.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's more, but you probably won't believe that, either. http://scienceprogress.org/2009/07/right-wing-attacks-on-science-adviser-continue/
> 
> After Holdren, Tiller, and Carhart, I'm not going to bother looking up anyone you see as evil. I can just take it for granted that they're not.


Poor Purl
..right wing attacks on science progress.... "Progress" is not something that the right wingers embrace. They prefer to stick to the old wild west period, never to be seen without at least one gun strapped to them even when visiting the two holer. Nice family portrait that makes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Ayn Rand aficionado was she? I know the answer to that rhetorical question.


damemay
looking at Rand nauseates me already, reading her writings truly makes me sick. What a Monster she was and still being revered by a slew of Repuglicans. Was not Rand Paul named after her?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Never forget that there are many good things in our country. You seem so 'dark' sometimes, ready to believe the worst. It worries me.


I worry about that feeling which seems prevalent on the right too.

I have more faith in your country -- I think one of the main problems, looking in from outside - is not all the things Neb mentioned, although certainly they play a part -- it is the horrible division which is getting deeper and wider. There are those who actually hate and some to appear, to an outsider and others I know, to contribute to the hate rather than fight it.

You read some of the posts on the right and it is scary - there is no GIVE -- it is all written in stone. I also think that influence from right wing commentators and some (not all) Preachers and Ministers is being accepted as truth. I don't think any are willing to believe anything except what is in their mindset. No questioning. It is worrisome.

I don't hear any 'discussion' I only hear agreement with what every one else says. They have their beliefs which are identical.

I just don't think that is the way the United States has been in the past -- narrow and rigid and neither side will give an inch. They refuse to discuss differences. I think that there are those who believe a more middle ground, are becoming leery and in some cases afraid to rock the boat and question anyone on the right.

I am proud of the people here who can speak their mind and disagree with others in a friendly way. I don't see anyone on the other side who EVER questions or suggests that there is a possiblility they might possibly be mistaken about something.

I do not believe that we do that - certainly we have our core beliefs which don't change - most have been developed over that person's life experiences - however we are open for new ideas. I know that i have changed quite a few of my views since I started visiting these threads. I know I can speak even if I differ (which I do in some cases, from the others. I have seen others in this group who have made it clear that they don't agree with every one. I haven't seen much of that from those on D and P - that is why I admire it that at least a few do discuss rather ignore us.

That to me scares me more than those problems, which I believe are real, but could be corrected by working together which isn't going to happen from statements made by Americans who are divided more than I have ever seen.
This again, is just my opinion.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, I don't know if it's fabricated, but it's always been around, so why these RWs act as if they'd just discovered it is beyond me. The problem is one of POV: they're so caught up in the "fetus is baby" belief that they ignore the rest of the family, who may suffer because of one more child, or the mother alone, for whom pregnancy and childbirth may be a dangerous situation. To them, it's fetus vs. mom, and they're only on the side of the fetus. I think to us it's one woman and what she does with her body. I don't understand why their scientists (if there are such people) don't work on making it possible to remove the fetus from the womb and transfer it to another womb, natural or artificial. Then they can take care of the baby and the woman can go on with her life.


Interesting thoughts, Huck. If they can transplant hearts and livers, why not fetuses from the woman who does not want to be pregnant to the one who can't conceive and desperately wants a baby. Oh, Brave New World. But I still think access to effective birth control is the way to go.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> ..right wing attacks on science progress.... "Progress" is not something that the right wingers embrace. They prefer to stick to the old wild west period, never to be seen without at least one gun strapped to them even when visiting the two holer. Nice family portrait that makes.


But it is interesting that Fundamentalists of any stripe do not see/appreciate science as the more secular world does. I read recently, and I am sure I mentioned this before, but the Funds. value faith the most and science in about 5th place. There is great diversity in the way people process faith and science. It should not be considered a given that everyone accepts science as being important. Life is weird.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> That would be a wonderful additional option, but I don't see how it solves things. Whether it's abortion or this procedure, you still have to consider whether it's OK to impose medical procedures on a woman's body against her will.
> 
> That would be a wonderful extra option, but the argument really is about whether a woman's body be allowed to be raped (not as a sexual assault but a very intimate assault on someone's body against her will) because of somebody else's religious beliefs.


Oh, I had no intention of any unwillingness on the part of either party. It would be a mutually agreed upon situation complete with counseling and a legal contract. Strictly the two involved parties with deterrents against coercion on either party. And the person who wanted the pregnancy would be the one responsible for medical costs.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> MarilynKnits
> Perhaps the Trinity. Or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednigo.


Why does this come to mind? I think it was an old song that my older brother and sister sang in choir. Am I dreaming? I have to look it up.
There was 3 chillun from the land of Israel: Shadrach, Meshach, Abednigo
Found it


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> transplantation of a fetus would be critical for all involved I am quite sure and I opt for the lesser risk. We are already burdened for decades with horrendous cost because VERY premature Babies were kept alive and some of the Babies need constant care throughout their Lives. Please, I am not saying they should not have been saved, I am just looking at reality and possible prevention of further problems.


Don't get me wrong, Huck, I'm not advocating it. I just think that if they want to prevent women from having abortions and women don't want to go through pregnancy, that would be one way to go.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ayn Rand aficionado was she? I know the answer to that rhetorical question.


Was she? I don't think so. She certainly doesn't dismiss people who need help, as Rand did, calling them spongers or something like that. Until Rand got sick and applied for Medicare and Social Security, that is.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> ..right wing attacks on science progress.... "Progress" is not something that the right wingers embrace. They prefer to stick to the old wild west period, never to be seen without at least one gun strapped to them even when visiting the two holer. Nice family portrait that makes.


Or caricature, Huck.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> But it is interesting that Fundamentalists of any stripe do not see/appreciate science as the more secular world does. I read recently, and I am sure I mentioned this before, but the Funds. value faith the most and science in about 5th place. There is great diversity in the way people process faith and science. It should not be considered a given that everyone accepts science as being important. Life is weird.


SQM, you have just provided me with the opening to post a fascinating op-ed that ran in Sunday's NYTimes. Thank you.

*When Beliefs and Facts Collide*
JULY 5, 2014
BrendanNyhan

Do Americans understand the scientific consensus about issues like climate change and evolution?

At least for a substantial portion of the public, it seems like the answer is no. The Pew Research Center, for instance, found that 33 percent of the public believes Humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time and 26 percent think there is not solid evidence that the average temperature on Earth has been getting warmer over the past few decades. Unsurprisingly, beliefs on both topics are divided along religious and partisan lines. For instance, 46 percent of Republicans said there is not solid evidence of global warming, compared with 11 percent of Democrats.

As a result of surveys like these, scientists and advocates have concluded that many people are not aware of the evidence on these issues and need to be provided with correct information. Thats the impulse behind efforts like the campaign to publicize the fact that 97 percent of climate scientists believe human activities are causing global warming.

In a new study, a Yale Law School professor, Dan Kahan, finds that the divide over belief in evolution between more and less religious people is wider among people who otherwise show familiarity with math and science, which suggests that the problem isnt a lack of information. When he instead tested whether respondents knew the theory of evolution, omitting mention of belief, there was virtually no difference between more and less religious people with high scientific familiarity. In other words, *religious people knew the science; they just werent willing to say that they believed in it.*

Mr. Kahans study suggests that more people know what scientists think about high-profile scientific controversies than polls suggest; they just arent willing to endorse the consensus when it contradicts their political or religious views. This finding helps us understand why my colleagues and I have found that factual and scientific evidence is often ineffective at reducing misperceptions and can even backfire on issues like weapons of mass destruction, health care reform and vaccines. With science as with politics, identity often trumps the facts.

So what should we do? One implication of Mr. Kahans study and other research in this field is that we need to try to break the association between identity and factual beliefs on high-profile issues  for instance, by making clear that you can believe in human-induced climate change and still be a conservative Republican like former Representative Bob Inglis or an evangelical Christian like the climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe.

But we also need to reduce the incentives for elites to spread misinformation to their followers in the first place. Once peoples cultural and political views get tied up in their factual beliefs, its very difficult to undo regardless of the messaging that is used.

It may be possible for institutions to help people set aside their political identities and engage with science more dispassionately under certain circumstances, especially at the local level. Mr. Kahan points, for instance, to the relatively inclusive and constructive deliberations that were conducted among citizens in Southeast Florida about responding to climate change. However, this experience may be hard to replicate  on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, another threatened coastal area, the debate over projected sea level rises has already become highly polarized.

The deeper problem is that citizens participate in public life precisely because they believe the issues at stake relate to their values and ideals, especially when political parties and other identity-based groups get involved  an outcome that is inevitable on high-profile issues. Those groups can help to mobilize the public and represent their interests, but they also help to produce the factual divisions that are one of the most toxic byproducts of our polarized era. Unfortunately, knowing what scientists think is ultimately no substitute for actually believing it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/upshot/when-beliefs-and-facts-collide.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> She was the epitome of a pseudo intellectual who made up excuses to be a selfish and rotten human being.


And yet men seemed drawn to her. Or maybe I should have said: that's why men were drawn to her.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/patient-protection.pdf page118

Sec 1303 says it is. In the actual law. Then Obama said he would sign an executive order forbidding the government to pay for it. As we all know how he follows the law. Then there is all the government money going to Planned Parenthood.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I thought that you were of an age that you would remember the days that even Morphine could be gotten from the Pharmacist without prescription as well as other hard drugs.
> Generally, ways of life have not changed all that much, reporting is what is different. It is the NFORMATION AGE that makes us aware much more. Children born out of wedlock were not the exception but almost the rule. ********* Babies were hidden away as well as others with disabilities and Gays would live a sorry Life of deception. If anything has changed, it is that we are more honest now and care little what others think. Much less pretending and trying to keep up with the Jonses. What we need now is jobs for everyone able to work and Life will be easier than "in the gold old days" (really, good, they were?) I don't think so. In addition, if divorces would not have had such a stigma attached to them (by the holier than thou), the numbers would surely have equaled those of today. Miserable marriages were the rule of the day because women had no rights and suffered in silence. Women were no partners in marriage, they were unpaid Maids. And you want us to return to those times? I am thankful for the liberties granted me and take full avantage of all of them.


I am 59 years old and can't imagine any of us being alive when morphine could be bought over the counter. Call me naive! I was born and raised in the Midwest. I think we've lived different lives and had different experiences. My own mother was the exception to those of my friends. My friend's mothers always appeared to love motherhood. I've read about the things you say, but I don't think it was relevant to those of us in the Midwest. Motherhood was an honored profession. Midwest values and all that! I actually fought for women's rights in my twenties, equal pay and equal opportunity etc... I crossed over into men's territory and thought that I could do it all. Eventually after my second child was born, I realized that we can have it all but not all at the same time. I was missing out on raising my children and my husband and I had NO time together. I gave it up and became a full time mother. I never felt like a maid. I was glad that I could teach my own children what I wanted them to know. I looked at housework as my job. I did it fast and well, like everything else. When my children were in school, I was bored and wanted to do something, so I volunteered. I had the best of both worlds. While I'm sure there were women as you describe, I can't help but think they were the exception, not the rule. Things really were different here. One of my biggest memories of mothers was that they were always getting together for coffee. And my fondest memories of all took place around the kitchen table of my best friend's Mom. She loved kids! All the kids in the neighborhood wanted to be at her house. My friend would get tired of her friends wanting to spend their time with her mom. At her mother's funeral, many people honored her by speaking of growing up around her kitchen table. Anyway, I digress... Sorry!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Why does this come to mind? I think it was an old song that my older brother and sister sang in choir. Am I dreaming? I have to look it up.
> There was 3 chillun from the land of Israel: Shadrach, Meshach, Abednigo
> Found it
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> I agree. Even if one is to buy into the pretense that a fetus is a baby with more rights than a grown woman --- the fact that these anti-choicers. usually anti-gummint fetishists have NO PROBLEM with women being raped by the government is astonishing to me.
> 
> Forcing medical some of the most intimate and often dangerous medical procedures upon a woman's body against her will, which is, IMO, a form of rape, (_not sexual, but rape none the less_), seems to not bother them ONE SINGLE BIT.


Rape is not a bad description of what would happen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/patient-protection.pdf page118
> 
> Sec 1303 says it is. In the actual law. Then Obama said he would sign an executive order forbidding the government to pay for it. As we all know how he follows the law. Then there is all the government money going to Planned Parenthood.


The Hyde Amendment, passed in 1976 and affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1980, prohibits federal funds from being used for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother. The law effectively leaves the decision of funding abortion to the states, and most states choose not to.

This preceded the ACA by 30-something years and is still law.

A few questions for you, Lisa: 1. Has Obama broken his word on this matter? No, he signed that executive order, but you seem to think it's okay to imply that - what? He'll ignore his own order?

2. What percentage of Planned Parenthood's work each year covers abortion? Three (3) percent. So $97 out of every $100 goes for something else, like cancer screening, ob-gyn visits, testing for STDs, contraception, etc. Moreover, Congress has barred Planned Parenthood from using federal funds for abortion services. The federal funds Planned Parenthood receives are strictly required by law to fund only family planning services, not abortion.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is too sad to contemplate the fate of babies who were born addicted. They have neurological damage that haunts them for life no matter how lovingly nurtured they are by foster or adoptive parents. As infants they cry much of the time. They have learning issues in school. They have a higher than average danger of becoming addicts as they mature. If they end up being raised by the addicted mother, their chance of being murdered by the mother's next boy friend are very high because they cry so much.


You are right on all of it! My daughter was a drug baby. In addition she suffered from Attachment Disorder, as she'd been severely neglected as an infant. But she is doing quite well. Her IQ is average but she deals with issues pertaining to the AD such as trust, control and perserverence. She works but changes jobs about every year. She is engaged but keeps postponing the wedding. Shes just different than most. Her younger half sister was beaten and murdered by her bio mom's boyfriend.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am 59 years old and can't imagine any of us being alive when morphine could be bought over the counter. Call me naive!


Sales of morphine OTC were stopped in 1913, so you're right, it predates probably all of us. Coca Cola contained some traces of cocaine until 1929.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The Hyde Amendment, passed in 1976 and affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1980, prohibits federal funds from being used for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother. The law effectively leaves the decision of funding abortion to the states, and most states choose not to.
> 
> This preceded the ACA by 30-something years and is still law.
> 
> ...


PP you know I am not Lisa. Why are you so mean to me?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You are right on all of it! My daughter was a drug baby. In addition she suffered from Attachment Disorder, as she'd been severely neglected as an infant. But she is doing quite well. Her IQ is average but she deals with issues pertaining to the AD such as trust, control and perserverence. She works but changes jobs about every year. She is engaged but keeps postponing the wedding. Shes just different than most. Her younger half sister was beaten and murdered by her bio mom's boyfriend.


Is this your adopted daughter? I missed that part of the story.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> PP you know I am not Lisa. Why are you so mean to me?


Do I really know that? You know that Huckleberry isn't Ingried, but you call her that anyway. Is it mean to do that?

If it bothers you, I'll stop. I just thought it would be funny to do unto you as you do unto others.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do I really know that? You know that Huckleberry isn't Ingried, but you call her that anyway. Is it mean to do that?
> 
> If it bothers you, I'll stop. I just thought it would be funny to do unto you as you do unto others.


 Yes it bothers me. I don't know why you have gone out of your way to try to hurt me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes it bothers me. I don't know why you have gone out of your way to try to hurt me.


Less than 24 hours ago you were saying "You are hilarious! Oh my sides are aching . What a jewel you are! HAHAHAHAHA." How could I know you were so sensitive, especially since you have no problem doing it to others. I won't do it any more, but maybe you'll realize how other people feel about being given someone else's name.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I didn't know you were so sensitive, since you have no problem doing it to others. I won't do it any more, but maybe you'll realize how other people feel about being given someone else's name.


I tried to tell you about Lisa along time ago. You didn't believe me then. I knew about who some others are too but I won't drag them into it.
I know for a fact that Huck is Ingried . I don't want to have to look thru 2 years of post to prove it. You said it yourself yesterday. I don't know why anyone needs more than one id. 
Thank you I appreciate you not calling me a name I am not. You know I am the one and only. If Huck can prove to me she is not Ingried I will tell her I am sorry.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I tried to tell you about Lisa along time ago. You didn't believe me then. I knew about who some others are too but I won't drag them into it.
> I know for a fact that Huck is Ingried . I don't want to have to look thru 2 years of post to prove it. You said it yourself yesterday. I don't know why anyone needs more than one id.
> Thank you I appreciate you not calling me a name I am not. You know I am the one and only. If Huck can prove to me she is not Ingried I will tell her I am sorry.


I don't know what you tried to tell me about Lisa. Oh, I guess you mean that you know what other names she goes by. It's not Cheeky, that much I'm certain of. And if it's Jody, who cares?

How could Huck prove she's not Ingried? Send you a picture? What kind of proof would be acceptable to you? It's very difficult to prove a negative. If you want me to believe you, you'd have to prove to me that Huck and Ingried are the same - much easier to prove a positive.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know what you tried to tell me about Lisa. Oh, I guess you mean that you know what other names she goes by. It's not Cheeky, that much I'm certain of. And if it's Jody, who cares?
> 
> How could Huck prove she's not Ingried? Send you a picture? What kind of proof would be acceptable to you? It's very difficult to prove a negative. If you want me to believe you, you'd have to prove to me that Huck and Ingried are the same - much easier to prove a positive.


 It would be on my personal pm's and I would not feel comfortable posting someone's email. If I find it and it is not a pm I will post it.Why did you post it was Ingried yesterday if you didn't think the same thing?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> Well said.
> 
> IMO, it's KnFrNe's style of "benign misogyny" that helps society scapegoat women for their own problems.
> 
> It's like some women suffer from a sort of "Stockholm syndrome" from living in a world controlled by mostly angry white men.


TrueAthena
You are on target.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't get me wrong, Huck, I'm not advocating it. I just think that if they want to prevent women from having abortions and women don't want to go through pregnancy, that would be one way to go.


Poor uPurl
I understand well what you are saying. No problem. It would not surprise me if it would become reality.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> You don't say it outright, but when you're are FOR restricting access to abortion, you ARE "for" back alley abortions because we know without a doubt, when access to affordable, safe abortions is less, back alley abortions increase.
> 
> So, you ARE "for" back alley abortions. You've essentially decided that women are acceptable "collateral damage" in your war against reproductive rights.


True Athena
I often get the feeling that those who are against it now would have loved to have the option in their younger years and resent the freedom Women have achieved.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know what you tried to tell me about Lisa. Oh, I guess you mean that you know what other names she goes by. It's not Cheeky, that much I'm certain of. And if it's Jody, who cares?
> 
> How could Huck prove she's not Ingried? Send you a picture? What kind of proof would be acceptable to you? It's very difficult to prove a negative. If you want me to believe you, you'd have to prove to me that Huck and Ingried are the same - much easier to prove a positive.


Love to see how those logic classes paid in dividends.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It would be on my personal pm's and I would not feel comfortable posting someone's email. If I find it and it is not a pm I will post it.Why did you post it was Ingried yesterday if you didn't think the same thing?


You mean when I wrote, "Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck"? If I wanted it kept a secret, wouldn't I have just deleted the Ingried part and said "Thank you, Huck"? No, I did it for a joke, and I couldn't imagine that anyone would take it seriously. Even now, I can't help thinking that on D&P you're telling everyone how you fooled me into thinking you were serious.

Lucky for you, I get so bored going over D&P messages that you could say that and I'd never know.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You mean when I wrote, "Thank you, Ingried - oops, Huck"? If I wanted it kept a secret, wouldn't I have just deleted the Ingried part and said "Thank you, Huck"? No, I did it for a joke, and I couldn't imagine that anyone would take it seriously. Even now, I can't help thinking that on D&P you're telling everyone how you fooled me into thinking you were serious.
> 
> Lucky for you, I get so bored going over D&P messages that you could say that and I'd never know.


I see no reason to keep talking to you. You are unreasonable. Think what you want about me.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know what you tried to tell me about Lisa. Oh, I guess you mean that you know what other names she goes by. It's not Cheeky, that much I'm certain of. And if it's Jody, who cares?
> 
> How could Huck prove she's not Ingried? Send you a picture? What kind of proof would be acceptable to you? It's very difficult to prove a negative. If you want me to believe you, you'd have to prove to me that Huck and Ingried are the same - much easier to prove a positive.


Poor Purl
does CB think that I would ever post a picture of myself for her and what about Ingried? Honestly? For George Clooney perhaps but CB? No chance. Interesting that she is obsessed with Jesus and Ingried at the same time. Ingried must be a fascinating woman. What is it with these female Right Wingers getting so attached to Women and either love them or loathe them, no inbetween. I could never become obsessed with anyone.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The Hyde Amendment, passed in 1976 and affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1980, prohibits federal funds from being used for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother. The law effectively leaves the decision of funding abortion to the states, and most states choose not to.
> 
> This preceded the ACA by 30-something years and is still law.
> 
> ...


Hyde Amendment

"First passed by Congress in 1976, the Hyde Amendment ensures that abortion is not covered in the comprehensive health care services provided by the federal government through Medicaid. Congress has made some exceptions to the funding ban, which have varied over the years. At present, the federal Medicaid program mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered."

http://nchla.org/issues.asp?ID=1

It only covers Medicaid where does it include ACA Obamacare?

Provide the website


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> 
> At least you're telling us what's on your mind rather than making us what's on our minds. So I know it's honest.
> 
> ...


First and foremost, I have NEVER said that those who were for choice were demons! Never! I said that I believe they've been deceived.

Next, the wiki articles went into the controversial points further down. I lived in Wichita when Tiller was in the news for his repugnant actions. His employees testified to what happened in his clinic. Unless they and the news station made it up??? I've also lived in Omaha where Carhart practiced (Bellevue actually, a suburb of Omaha). These things are big news on local stations in the Midwest. We all know what happened with Gosnell! We all know that he didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Here is a video of employees from yet another clinic. Abortion Clinic Employees -- "Babies born alive d: 



Here is undercover video of Carhart himself. Inhuman: Undercover in America's Late-Term Aborti: 



These things ARE happening!

I know you think I'm a conspiracy nut so I'm not even gonna try to tell you to look at the video. It is however, very interesting whether you believe it or not!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I see no reason to keep talking to you. You are unreasonable. Think what you want about me.


Country Bumpkins
Do you always need an Alarm to get wakened? Holy Cow, your
sleep disorder is ruining your comprehension. Does no-body ever tell you a joke? Has anger, hatred, bigotry and racism taken all of the fun out of your Life? Anything light hearted bypasses you by a Mile. Try to free yourself from your bondage.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I see no reason to keep talking to you. You are unreasonable. Think what you want about me.


_I'm_ unreasonable?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> does CB think that I would ever post a picture of myself for her and what about Ingried? Honestly? For George Clooney perhaps but CB? No chance. Interesting that she is obsessed with Jesus and Ingried at the same time. Ingried must be a fascinating woman. What is it with these female Right Wingers getting so attached to Women and either love them or loathe them, no inbetween. I could never become obsessed with anyone.


Huck, ya got me. But then I'm unreasonable.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Hyde Amendment
> 
> "First passed by Congress in 1976, the Hyde Amendment ensures that abortion is not covered in the comprehensive health care services provided by the federal government through Medicaid. Congress has made some exceptions to the funding ban, which have varied over the years. At present, the federal Medicaid program mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered."
> 
> ...


You're right - I didn't notice that it was limited to Medicaid. I guess all we have to go by is the President's executive order, which you think he'll ignore and I think he has to keep.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, ya got me. But then I'm unreasonable.


Poor Purl,
you are? You got me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> First and foremost, I have NEVER said that those who were for choice were demons! Never! I said that I believe they've been deceived.


You didn't say it, but in some way you described them (us) that way. I think for the most part we're smarter than you'll allow us to be, and we're not easy to deceive.



> Next, the wiki articles went into the controversial points further down. I lived in Wichita when Tiller was in the news for his repugnant actions. His employees testified to what happened in his clinic. Unless they and the news station made it up??? I've also lived in Omaha where Carhart practiced (Bellevue actually, a suburb of Omaha). These things are big news on local stations in the Midwest. We all know what happened with Gosnell! We all know that he didn't think he was doing anything wrong. Here is a video of employees from yet another clinic. Abortion Clinic Employees -- "Babies born alive d:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know what the wiki articles said when you looked at them - anyone can change them at any time, so they're not a final authority. And news stations don't always tell the truth, either - look at Fox, which is so biased to the right that most of what they say is questionable, including "and" and "the." As for videos, ACORN was destroyed by faked videos. I'm sorry, but your evidence doesn't prove anything.

In any case, why do you have to prove to me that some doctors are monsters? I'm sure some are, and maybe even the ones you mention (though I'm certain Tiller wasn't, and probably not Carhart, either). I thought the point was that abortion itself is the evil, not the way some doctors practice it. Are you saying that if there were a way to make sure all abortions stuck strictly to law and involved no bad acts, they'd be okay with you? I didn't think so.


> I know you think I'm a conspiracy nut so I'm not even gonna try to tell you to look at the video. It is however, very interesting whether you believe it or not!


I couldn't even count the number of faked pictures, videos, articles that I've seen trying to convince people that choice is not a moral/valid option. They haven't convinced me yet. Showing people disgusting pictures tends to turn them off, anyway, not convert them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> Do you always need an Alarm to get wakened? Holy Cow, your
> sleep disorder is ruining your comprehension. Does no-body ever tell you a joke? Has anger, hatred, bigotry and racism taken all of the fun out of your Life? Anything light hearted bypasses you by a Mile. Try to free yourself from your bondage.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Morona said:


> deleted


Wha' hoppen??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO capitalist greed poses a real threat to the USA. Traditionally, we have been a country who goes to the aid in disasters, who rebuilds countries we defeated, opened our shores with the Statue of Liberty to the world's huddled masses. I'm ashamed at the change. We hurl epithets at buses of unaccompanied minors hoping to find safety from wars in their countries. We house them alone for how long in makeshift shelters and give them a concrete floor to sleep on, a thin blanket, no pillows to be seen. Then they say not to send supplies. Many seem to have no heart.



Designer1234 said:


> I worry about that feeling which seems prevalent on the right too.
> 
> I have more faith in your country -- I think one of the main problems, looking in from outside - is not all the things Neb mentioned, although certainly they play a part -- it is the horrible division which is getting deeper and wider. There are those who actually hate and some to appear, to an outsider and others I know, to contribute to the hate rather than fight it.
> 
> ...


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Maysmom
> Do you think Gerslay is really a thousand monkeys sitting at typewriters trying for Hamlet but instead getting WOW?


Well, for sure she's one very dedicated poster, and we all know to whom---
(Hamlet, for goodness' sake! If a blind hog can find an acorn, than certainly a thousand monkeys can write a coherent sentence. 
Hopefully in English.)
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for quantifying the truth. Cynical as I am, I doubt it will convince those who need to learn the truth though.



Poor Purl said:


> The Hyde Amendment, passed in 1976 and affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1980, prohibits federal funds from being used for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or endangerment to the life of the mother. The law effectively leaves the decision of funding abortion to the states, and most states choose not to.
> 
> This preceded the ACA by 30-something years and is still law.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You are right on all of it! My daughter was a drug baby. In addition she suffered from Attachment Disorder, as she'd been severely neglected as an infant. But she is doing quite well. Her IQ is average but she deals with issues pertaining to the AD such as trust, control and perserverence. She works but changes jobs about every year. She is engaged but keeps postponing the wedding. Shes just different than most. Her younger half sister was beaten and murdered by her bio mom's boyfriend.


I'm sorry. I just can't comment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True. Elixirs were sold over-the-counter to 'believers' who doctored children with it.



Poor Purl said:


> Sales of morphine OTC were stopped in 1913, so you're right, it predates probably all of us. Coca Cola contained some traces of cocaine until 1929.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Read carefully. You are insulting.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Is this your adopted daughter? I missed that part of the story.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Do I really know that? You know that Huckleberry isn't Ingried, but you call her that anyway. Is it mean to do that?
> 
> If it bothers you, I'll stop. I just thought it would be funny to do unto you as you do unto others.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please Lisa (CB, Country Bumpkins.) You've done it again....calling others names you think you know are theirs. Are you trying to hurt them? If not, the practice must have your blessing.

I have always conjectured that KPG created you, yarnlady and lovethelake in his/her own image.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I tried to tell you about Lisa along time ago. You didn't believe me then. I knew about who some others are too but I won't drag them into it.
> I know for a fact that Huck is Ingried . I don't want to have to look thru 2 years of post to prove it. You said it yourself yesterday. I don't know why anyone needs more than one id.
> Thank you I appreciate you not calling me a name I am not. You know I am the one and only. If Huck can prove to me she is not Ingried I will tell her I am sorry.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It would be on my personal pm's and I would not feel comfortable posting someone's email. If I find it and it is not a pm I will post it.Why did you post it was Ingried yesterday if you didn't think the same thing?


Satire? Humor? Fun?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please Lisa. You've done it again....calling others names you think you know are theirs. Are you trying to hurt them? If not, the practice must have your blessing.
> 
> I have always conjectured that KPG created you, yarnlady and lovethelake in his/her own image.


snooz you 
are humorless. Bless your heart.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

PoorPurl, you are unreasonable if truth be lies.



Poor Purl said:


> _I'm_ unreasonable?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> snooz you
> are humorless. Bless your heart.


Not everyone agrees on my lack of humor, but it has been opined that you lack the ability to see any humor.

At least I have a heart. Your blessings are unwanted and you know it. Why do you persist?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> _I'm_ unreasonable?


Damn straight, glowing Akoya. Unreasonable, unreachable, unseasonal, undeniably undulating in the warm waters of the Pacific Sea. No, that's the seaweed waving over your new bungalow (shell.)

You can't be considered reasonable if the "considerer" isn't reasonable herself.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not everyone agrees on my lack of humor. It has been opined that you lack the ability to see any humor.
> 
> At least I have a heart. Your blessings are unwanted and you know it. Why do you persist?


Even the Pharisees had to be public showboaters. It wouldn't be Christian to say "Bugger off" to you, so you get the Southern equivalent that passes the censors, but everyone knows the true meaning. Not to worry, Dame, nobody can take away your knighthood or your sharp sword!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Even the Pharisees had to be public showboaters. It wouldn't be Christian to say "Bugger off" to you, so you get the Southern equivalent that passes the censors, but everyone knows the true meaning. Not to worry, Dame, nobody can take away your knighthood or your sharp sword!!
> 
> Ain't that the truth?
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Damn straight, glowing Akoya. Unreasonable, unreachable, unseasonal, undeniably undulating in the warm waters of the Pacific Sea. No, that's the seaweed waving over your new bungalow (shell.)
> 
> You can't be considered reasonable if the "considerer" isn't reasonable herself.
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Bless your heart Karen.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Says the person who thought that Purl ACTUALLY was admitting that Huck was Ingrid.
> 
> She was soooo obviously joking, and it went right over your head.


Hi cheeky. Haven't been around much lately. sorry to hear about you losing your parent.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bless your heart Karen.


Right back atcha babe, and you know exactly what I mean.

Oh, Karen?? I thought that I made it clear I was to be addressed as "Baroness."

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Says the person who thought that Purl ACTUALLY was admitting that Huck was Ingrid.
> 
> She was soooo obviously joking, and it went right over your head. Bless your imaginary heart and funny bone.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Right back atcha babe, and you know exactly what I mean.
> 
> Oh, Karen?? I thought that I made it clear I was to be addressed as "Baroness."
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


I 'll just use your real name.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ugh. Sorry to hear about you losing your senses.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Hi cheeky. Haven't been around much lately. sorry to hear about you losing your parent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amazing. Thanks for the confirmation.



TrueAthena said:


> Hi, Lisa. This is quite the schtick you've been pulling off on your fellow D&P'rs. Do they know you're really Lisa?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just kiss her ring then.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I 'll just use your real name.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> And we'll use your's Lisa.


So now Karen is denying her name is Karen? What 's up with you folk not liking your name?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I 'll just use your real name.


Ah, but is it my real name? Is it my Craft name? Does my dh address me by that name? Would you like to reveal my surname like your fearless leader did to another of our posters?

Salaam! Salami! Baloney!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just kiss her ring then.


But nobody knows where that ring has been---


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you ever heard of privacy? Some people value it...especially from strangers.



Country Bumpkins said:


> So now Karen is denying her name is Karen? What 's up with you folk not liking your name?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Lisa,
> 
> If you can deny you're real name Lisa, why would it bother you if someone else does?


Well, I know I'm not Lisa.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Ah, but is it my real name? Is it my Craft name? Does my dh address me by that name? Would you like to reveal my surname like your fearless leader did to another of our posters?
> 
> Salaam! Salami! Baloney!


I don't know what you are talking about. You said your name is Karen


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, I know I'm not Lisa.


I know you are not Lisa either.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Really? I think you're the ONLY person here they haven't accused of being Lisa.


No, because I'm Karen N. Athena-you can reveal it now--I'm your sister Aphrodite.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It WAS tragic! But IMO, it would have been even more tragic if they'd had to live with the knowledge that they'd killed him. Instead, they loved him while he was here and greived him when he was gone.


It seems to me that you're implying that my parents would have aborted their very disabled child. I think you're exploiting what I've said about a tragedy in my parents' life so you can say something about abortion. That's pretty low, KIN. I'm thoroughly disgusted with you and by what you said. If you plan to do the same to other people who post here I suggest you leave, permanently. In fact, I wish you were already gone. You're a bottom-feeding creep.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> No, because I'm Karen N. Athena-you can reveal it now--I'm your sister Aphrodite.
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll:


 Knitting Forum -> maysmom -> Posts 
Go to page: << 1 ... 116 117 118 >>

Pictures -> Lia's Raspberry Cardi (go to message) Nov 25, 11 10:19:25
The cardigan is just beautiful! (Calling my LYS to see if she has that pattern book!)

Thanks,
Karen


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Knitting Forum -> maysmom -> Posts
> Go to page: << 1 ... 116 117 118 >>
> 
> Pictures -> Lia's Raspberry Cardi (go to message) Nov 25, 11 10:19:25
> ...


Ah, Lisa, but is it my real name? Can you visualize and reveal my real name? I'll check on and off--


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Ah, Lisa, but is it my real name? Can you visualize and reveal my real name? I'll check on and off--


 Knitting Forum -> maysmom -> Posts 
Go to page: << 1 ... 115 116 117 118 >>

Main -> Addi Lace Clicks (go to message) Jan 30, 12 12:28:56
Good morning, ladies,
I was thinking of buying a set of Addi lace clicks. Has anyone had experience with them? Good, bad, indifferent? I've read that the needle part is available in a new 5" length instead of 4".
(To be honest, I believe that if I sorted through the morass of yarn and needles in my craft room, I'd probably find quite a few Addis. I do love the lace ones, though..)

Thanks,
Karen N.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Knitting Forum -> maysmom -> Posts
> Go to page: << 1 ... 115 116 117 118 >>
> 
> Main -> Addi Lace Clicks (go to message) Jan 30, 12 12:28:56
> ...


Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, can't you do any better? Am I really who I seem? Am I so important that you need to scroll through old posts? Take 2 aspirin and don't call me in the morning.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Maid! Thank you for sharing your family's story!


First you imply my parents might have considered aborting their very disabled child and then you thank me for sharing their story. Go back to whatever loony bin you escaped from and leave me alone.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't think that KFN meant to cause you any hurt, MIB. When I suffered the first of my 3 miscarriages, my father told me that it was better that the baby did not live instead of being born handicapped. 
As I've written, my baby brother died of a brain tumor shortly before his second birthday. He was diagnosed at 6 months of age.

Dad and my mother never spoke of my brother after his death. Dad is gone now, and Mom is descending into dementia rapidly, so I won't hear if they felt it would have been better for Jimmy to have never been born than to suffer so much of his short life.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not everyone agrees on my lack of humor, but it has been opined that you lack the ability to see any humor.
> 
> At least I have a heart. Your blessings are unwanted and you know it. Why do you persist?


Opined? It was just proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Damn straight, glowing Akoya. Unreasonable, unreachable, unseasonal, undeniably undulating in the warm waters of the Pacific Sea. No, that's the seaweed waving over your new bungalow (shell.)
> 
> You can't be considered reasonable if the "considerer" isn't reasonable herself.
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


What _did_ you have for dinner?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What _did_ you have for dinner?


Chinese food, lol. Hot & spicy shredded beef, lol. No oysters.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bless your heart Karen.


Does it make you feel special to know people's names? Understanding them would be even more special.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Right back atcha babe, and you know exactly what I mean.
> 
> Oh, Karen?? I thought that I made it clear I was to be addressed as "Baroness."
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Ah, you're that Karen. Or Isak. Well, here we go again.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Does it make you feel special to know people's names? Understanding them would be even more special.


She can call me Karen, she can call me maysmom, she can call me anything she likes. Limited thought processes, perhaps. There was one little old lady I knew who said little but "twinkle, twinkle, little star." Maybe that's where Lisa's heading.

Oh, Purl, I forgot to add "ululating" to your description. How would you describe your ululations? Often? Easily? Mellifluous?
Staccato? Profanity-laced? An inquiring mind wants to know--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ah, you're that Karen. Or Isak. Well, here we go again.


Well, at least you know I'm not Karen Carpenter. (I always wanted a big brother, but not geeky Richard with that Prince Valiant haircut. Oh well, I digress as usual.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Hi cheeky. Haven't been around much lately. sorry to hear about you losing your parent.


Do you really have no idea how to talk to people? If she had been Cheeky, that would have been an awful thing to say. Fortunately, she's not Cheeky, and she hasn't recently lost a parent.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ugh. Sorry to hear about you losing your senses.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really have no idea how to talk to people? If she had been Cheeky, that would have been an awful thing to say. Fortunately, she's not Cheeky, and she hasn't recently lost a parent.


And I doubt that she gives the proverbial rat's behind about anyone or anything outside her own claque. Right, Lise?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So now Karen is denying her name is Karen? What 's up with you folk not liking your name?


She never denied it. She just prefers to be called by her title. That's her right as nobility.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Ah, but is it my real name? Is it my Craft name? Does my dh address me by that name? Would you like to reveal my surname like your fearless leader did to another of our posters?
> 
> Salaam! Salami! Baloney!


Baroness Karen von Baloney? I like Isak better.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Purl, if it's true that your ululations aren't the greatest, then you really are our bean sidhe? (That's "banshee" for all the non-Irish here)


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Baroness Karen von Baloney? I like Isak better.


I like Chris Izaak quite a lot. The Baroness prefers the spelling of her name to be Baroness Karin Maria Antonia von Hummel Bologna (Oscar Mayer is copyright protected). It's a mouthful either way.

I think I'd better call it a night.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't know what you are talking about. You said your name is Karen


No, _you_ said her name is Karen. Can't you tell the difference between her and you?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know you are not Lisa either.


The only way you'd know that for certain is if you were with Lisa right now. Or if you were Lisa. But I won't call you that, because you said it was mean.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She never denied it. She just prefers to be called by her title. That's her right as nobility.


Actually, it's better to deny everything unless there are witnesses who will testify otherwise in a court of law.

:shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The only way you'd know that for certain is if you were with Lisa right now. Or if you were Lisa. But I won't call you that, because you said it was mean.


She could very well be with Lisa, but would it be the Lisa you're referring to? How would you or anyone else know? Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?

Can you come up with a "singing" meme? (Sure you can!)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Knitting Forum -> maysmom -> Posts
> Go to page: << 1 ... 116 117 118 >>
> 
> Pictures -> Lia's Raspberry Cardi (go to message) Nov 25, 11 10:19:25
> ...


You keep files on people going back 3 years??? Probably more than 3. That explains a lot, not about how you know people's names but what kind of person you are.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You keep files on people going back 3 years??? Probably more than 3. That explains a lot, not about how you know people's names but what kind of person you are.


Sounds rather suspicious to me. Maybe she's NSA?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, can't you do any better? Am I really who I seem? Am I so important that you need to scroll through old posts? Take 2 aspirin and don't call me in the morning.
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Do you realize what kind of person you're dealing with? I'd say "loon" was too mild.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you realize what kind of person you're dealing with? I'd say "loon" was too mild.


Ah, Purl, can you tell I miss interacting with the people from my group home??


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> I disagree, she used the phrase "killed him" to hyper-dramatize the situation, which was undeniably and purposefully "insensitive" to say the least.
> 
> She was also trying to make the point that when women have abortions they have guilt and regret because they're essentially murderers.


Yes, she's certainly used the murder word many times.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Chinese food, lol. Hot & spicy shredded beef, lol. No oysters.
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


There was food there, not just liquids? Quelle surprise, or the Chinese equivalent thereof.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> She can call me Karen, she can call me maysmom, she can call me anything she likes. Limited thought processes, perhaps. There was one little old lady I knew who said little but "twinkle, twinkle, little star." Maybe that's where Lisa's heading.
> 
> Oh, Purl, I forgot to add "ululating" to your description. How would you describe your ululations? Often? Easily? Mellifluous?
> Staccato? Profanity-laced? An inquiring mind wants to know--


I wouldn't describe my ululations at all, at least not in mixed company (sane and insane, I mean).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, at least you know I'm not Karen Carpenter. (I always wanted a big brother, but not geeky Richard with that Prince Valiant haircut. Oh well, I digress as usual.)


If you were a Carpenter and I was a lady....never mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> And I doubt that she gives the proverbial rat's behind about anyone or anything outside her own claque. Right, Lise?


But she does whine when she thinks someone's not being nice to her (and we know her coven is always very nice to each other).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Purl, if it's true that your ululations aren't the greatest, then you really are our bean sidhe? (That's "banshee" for all the non-Irish here)


My ululations are fine, thank you very much, but I'd like to try out for the bean sidhe part.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I like Chris Izaak quite a lot. The Baroness prefers the spelling of her name to be Baroness Karin Maria Antonia von Hummel Bologna (Oscar Mayer is copyright protected). It's a mouthful either way.
> 
> I think I'd better call it a night.
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Good night, Baroness.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


>


Do you remember when people would ask the singer or band if they sang or played requests and when they reply was "yes, we do" they were asked if they could sing or play '_Over the hills and far, far away_' and if the reply was "yes, we can do that for you", the requestor would then add "over the hills and far, far away in any direction as long as it is far, far away from here"?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> She could very well be with Lisa, but would it be the Lisa you're referring to? How would you or anyone else know? Does anybody really know what time it is? Does anybody really care?
> 
> Can you come up with a "singing" meme? (Sure you can!)


Not at this time of night, I can't.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Sounds rather suspicious to me. Maybe she's NSA?


You're kidding. That's an intelligence agency.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Do you remember when people would ask the singer or band if they sang or played requests and when they reply was "yes, we do" they were asked if they could sing or play '_Over the hills and far, far away_' and if the reply was "yes, we can do that for you", the requestor would then add "over the hills and far, far away in any direction as long as it is far, far away from here"?


Unfortunately, I _can_ remember it, and I was young enough then to think it was funny.

I also remember when a young man would ask a girl "Would you like to dance" and if she said Yes, he'd say "Go ahead. The floor's all yours."


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I am troubled by the tendency not to offer a child for adoption.
> 
> Now it is common for a young teenager to decide to keep her baby condemning them both to poverty. Sometimes it is the grandparents and other family who demand to keep the child rather than giving the child an opportunity for adoption.
> 
> It seems short-sighted and selfish to me. I am always looking for the benefit of the child.


I agree with you regarding not offering a child for adoption.

I have just come home from shopping and met a charming lady in the coffee shop. She had a most adorable baby boy with her. I stopped and asked how old the baby was, I was not sure if she was the mother or grandmother, the woman looked as if she was in her late 40 s. The baby was 6 months old. It turned out she was the great grandmother of the baby. The baby's mother, the woman's granddaughter, was 16 when the baby was born and the father was younger than the mother. The lady said the baby should have been adopted when it was born, the mother was incapable of looking after it and the grandparents were both working and too busy to look after it. It seems that the baby's father, the 15 year old boy, did not want the baby to be adopted. He said it was his buddy. Well, great grandmother, now aged 60 not late 40s. was rearing the child. She said she had sole care, custody and control of the child until it was two years old and she would take it from there. She was worried how she would cope with a teenager when she and her husband were in their 70s. In years gone by if a child was born to an unwed mother under the age of 17 years, then the parents of the pregnant teenager could place the baby up for adoption regardless of the birth mother's wishes. Authorities could also take the child away from the birth mother if she was under 17 years of age. Unfortunately, many teenagers do not place the child up for adoption because, in Australia, they are eligible to receive Social Security benefits and the unmarried mother's allowance if higher than the dole and they do not have to look for work. The mother used to receive this benefit until the child was 16 years old, they have now altered this so that the mother only receives the benefit until the child is 8 years old, when the payment alters to the dole payment. Unfortunately, there have been far too many tragedies with children either being severely injured or even killed by the mother's latest boyfriend. So very often these men only want the mother and not the responsibility of another man's child.

I do not want to return to the era of the forced adoption but I honestly think someone should think of the child and the long term care of that child.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Even the Pharisees had to be public showboaters. It wouldn't be Christian to say "Bugger off" to you, so you get the Southern equivalent that passes the censors, but everyone knows the true meaning. Not to worry, Dame, nobody can take away your knighthood or your sharp sword!!
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Agree. As Mrs Brown would say "That's nice". The followers of Mrs Brown's Boys will be familiar with this saying.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Sounds rather suspicious to me. Maybe she's NSA?


Shhh! You have actually tumbled her. Her surname is actually Snowden and she is spying here, hoping to release all our posts to the press. She believes these KP messages are coded messages sent by the Government and it is her duty to make public each and every government secret. She is hiding out in somewhere in Russia. How do I know this, well I will come clean. As you all know I am an Australian, but I am not living in Australia at the moment, I am hiding out in a foreign embassy in London and my first name is Julian.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If you were a Carpenter and I was a lady....never mind.


Indeed, w don't play for that team. 
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Agree. As Mrs Brown would say "That's nice". The followers of Mrs Brown's Boys will be familiar with this saying.


Onslow in "Keeping Up Appearances" would say that in a sarcastic way, too.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shhh! You have actually tumbled her. Her surname is actually Snowden and she is spying here, hoping to release all our posts to the press. She believes these KP messages are coded messages sent by the Government and it is her duty to make public each and every government secret. She is hiding out in somewhere in Russia. How do I know this, well I will come clean. As you all know I am an Australian, but I am not living in Australia at the moment, I am hiding out in a foreign embassy in London and my first name is Julian.


Well, those combs in your avatar explain your unusually well-groomed mane. How's things, Jules?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're kidding. That's an intelligence agency.


Oh yes, how un-intelligent of me.

Can I be called Baroness if I'm not wearing my tiara? How about a tin foil cap, does that count? (No, silly, I'm not a countess)


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There was food there, not just liquids? Quelle surprise, or the Chinese equivalent thereof.


What the ever-lovin'----?? That about covers it all.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But she does whine when she thinks someone's not being nice to her (and we know her coven is always very nice to each other).


But we need to be nice to genuine covens, oh shiny shard of shell--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Good night, Baroness.


Thank you, thank you, bonsoir, mes amis ...deep curtsy...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You are right on all of it! My daughter was a drug baby. In addition she suffered from Attachment Disorder, as she'd been severely neglected as an infant. But she is doing quite well. Her IQ is average but she deals with issues pertaining to the AD such as trust, control and perserverence. She works but changes jobs about every year. She is engaged but keeps postponing the wedding. Shes just different than most. Her younger half sister was beaten and murdered by her bio mom's boyfriend.


Your daughter is fortunate to have a loving parental support system and a so far patient prospective husband. I hope she has the insight to seek counseling to learn skills to deal with her very real emotional issues.

Unfortunately, too many infants who were born addicted suffer the fate of your daughter's half sister. If not that, they are not blessed with adoptive or foster families where they are loved and nurtured. I applaud you and your husband for being loving parents and hope you have all the joys of parenting your daughter.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sales of morphine OTC were stopped in 1913, so you're right, it predates probably all of us. Coca Cola contained some traces of cocaine until 1929.


Cheracol cough syrup containing codeine was still available through the early 1950's.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> * please read this post for those who think it is worse now than in the past*
> 
> Yes Neb --I agree with you that things have changed since I was a child -- Drugs, as you say are more prevalent however there were lots of underground drugs available.- there is more knowledge available, the computer has brought the world to our doors as has TV. We are more aware of many things that are happening than we were when I was a child.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. I'd always thought these things were way back in history. I also thought that people helped each other more. I thought that there was a morality among people, that they wouldn't sit back and watch suffering or beat little old ladies on the street. Or steal, not out of need, but greed. I'd thought that people wouldn't kill for no reason. I'd thought that people loved their countries, towns and neighbors. I've always read stories of people sacrificing to help others. So many heroic stories! I guess they were the exception, not the rule.

I grew up in the Midwest, in the 60's. It seemed like an idyllic time. It seemed a time of the simple life. People were responsible, hard working and involved. I've watched society disintegrate. I'm sad that my kids and grandkids have a different world. When I was a kid, children were safe. We played outside all day and went everywhere. We used our imaginations and created everything in our minds. Now we have to watch them even in our own yards, which are barely big enough to run and play. They can't explore and imagine because they're locked away in their homes. Was it always dangerous for kids, and I just didn't know it? Were people always selfish to the point where they'd just take whatever they wanted? That isn't the life I lived! People helped each other. People looked out for each other. People always defended women and children. In my world, evil was the exception to the rule. I'm lucky to have been born where and when I was.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes it bothers me. I don't know why you have gone out of your way to try to hurt me.


Perhaps to give you a taste of your own medicine. You have made some rather Mean Girl remarks yourself, although you seem immune to the self knowledge that would make you aware of how unpleasant you can be. I have seen some of your comments where you truly seem to have the potential to be a nice person. Is it the anonymity of using an avatar that lets you show your less pleasant side? If you met one of us, perhaps Purl, perhaps Shirley, perhaps me, in a social setting, would you make some of the insulting comments you find so amusing?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> your insight is astounding. Your last sentence on the button. This whole abortion issue is a fabricated one. It brings in bucks for the Pro-Life Lawyers so that their Retainers remain high and steady. Abortions are as old as Mankind and the only thing that has changed is that women do not have to die from them and can have pleasant future pregnancies unlike in the "olden days" when their reproductive organs often were mutilated. The childless Aunt often (very often) had an illegal abortion and her reproduction suffered terribly. Whose family did not have such a relative, I ask the opponents of choice. Certainly in the past the number of women remaining childless (who wanted children) were higher than now. And that's the truth.


I can't believe that you would suggest that "very often", childless women were so because of a back alley abortion! You even make the claim that that's why there were more childless women back then. I think you made the whole thing up!!!

The reason there were more childless women back then is because they didn't have fertility specialists! Do you have any idea how many women today, would be childless if not for doctors who specialize in fertility? I had three daughter's in law. All three of them had fertility problems. They all went to specialists. Two were finally able to have a child, but one was not. If they had been born 50 years earlier, you would have included them in your ridiculous statement! Don't say things that aren't true!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't Google it. Use the KP User List. You'll find Ingried there, too.


Thanks!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing. I'd always thought these things were way back in history. I also thought that people helped each other more. I thought that there was a morality among people, that they wouldn't sit back and watch suffering or beat little old ladies on the street. Or steal, not out of need, but greed. I'd thought that people wouldn't kill for no reason. I'd thought that people loved their countries, towns and neighbors. I've always read stories of people sacrificing to help others. So many heroic stories! I guess they were the exception, not the rule.
> 
> I grew up in the Midwest, in the 60's. It seemed like an idyllic time. It seemed a time of the simple life. People were responsible, hard working and involved. I've watched society disintegrate. I'm sad that my kids and grandkids have a different world. When I was a kid, children were safe. We played outside all day and went everywhere. We used our imaginations and created everything in our minds. Now we have to watch them even in our own yards, which are barely big enough to run and play. They can't explore and imagine because they're locked away in their homes. Was it always dangerous for kids, and I just didn't know it? Were people always selfish to the point where they'd just take whatever they wanted? That isn't the life I lived! People helped each other. People looked out for each other. People always defended women and children. In my world, evil was the exception to the rule. I'm lucky to have been born where and when I was.


I lived in the Midwest in a small farm town during my formative years and had much the same life experiences. We could go anywhere safely. We could play outside. Even during my earliest years in a densely populated section of Brooklyn, NY, we could play freely outside. People left their doors unlocked and any child could run into any downstairs apartment, let the lady of the house know he or she was there, use the bathroom, and get a drink of water.

Now there is greater denseness of population and the economy among other social factors have depressed many people's hope. It is a gun toting culture even where gun control laws are serious. There is an erosion in the progress of religious tolerance. Copts and Kurds are not safe. Jews have been driven from their long tenures in places like Iran and Turkey. Fundamentalists push to steal whatever progress women have made toward equality.

We have to keep making our voices heard at the polling booth, in op ed columns, at public meetings, wherever we can do so to protect our freedoms and by extrapolation push for freedoms around the world by example. The more religious zealots take charge in the US, the more license we give religious zealots of every stripe around the world.


----------



## littlebaba (Jul 20, 2013)

My mother had me when she was 19. First she left me 5 years in my grandmothers care, went to another country, visited once a year, but was most of the time doing something with old girlfriends. When I was 6 she had to take me because my grandmother got cancer. I never got a hug, or a " well done " . I was just a space holder. I had my son when I was 20 and I loved him with all my heart, still do. 
Some people are just not made to be parents.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Oh yes, how un-intelligent of me.
> 
> Can I be called Baroness if I'm not wearing my tiara? How about a tin foil cap, does that count? (No, silly, I'm not a countess)


And they all groaned at my crustacean joke (and I didn't even have crabs).

If you're not wearing your tiara, you may be called Bareness.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> We adopted a little girl and adoption didn't cost us anything. I am not sure about now - will have to find that out. I would certainly hope that adoption would be an option rather than abortion. It should be something that is achievable without a huge cost. I know that some types of adoption do cost here - but straightforward adoptions are something I am not sure about. I will find out.
> 
> She brought joy to our lives from the time she was 8 days old.
> 
> ...


You know the joy of bringing a child into your life. I can't speak for Canada but here in the US, it is very expensive. Adoption agencies charge huge fees. You've charges for the adoption, charges for the home study, charges for arrest record searches for every state you've lived in, charges for medical physical, charges for your lawyer, charges for the child's lawyer, court filing fees, registration fees, it goes on and on! The average adoption in the US, costs between $10,000 and $15000! Not many people can afford that! So every time somebody accuses those who are against abortion, of not caring enough to adopt all of the unwanted babies, keep that in mind!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I can't believe that you would suggest that "very often", childless women were so because of a back alley abortion! You even make the claim that that's why there were more childless women back then. I think you made the whole thing up!!!
> 
> The reason there were more childless women back then is because they didn't have fertility specialists! Do you have any idea how many women today, would be childless if not for doctors who specialize in fertility? I had three daughter's in law. All three of them had fertility problems. They all went to specialists. Two were finally able to have a child, but one was not. If they had been born 50 years earlier, you would have included them in your ridiculous statement! Don't say things that aren't true!


Actually, the cruder methods of illegal abortion years ago did cause infertility. Uterine/cervix scarring, post procedural infection, did cause subsequent infertility, if not death. Many years ago, a woman was found dead in a Norwich motel. She was a divorced mother of two little girls. When she found out she was pregnant, her so-called "finace" urged her to abort, said he knew "someone" who'd do the procedure. She was afraid she'd lose her kids. The "someone" was an orderly from a Mansfield facility with stolen surgical instruments. He and the fiance did this abortion, without anesthesia nor proper sterile technique, and the woman bled to death. The fiance and abortionist left her to die stuffed under the mattress at the motel, where housekeeping staff found her the next day. The woman's two daughters didn't learn of her death for quite awhile(their father said that the mother had died in a car accident) and they didn't learn that she'd died of a botched abortion until many years later. I'm 60 years old, and more than a few of my schoolmates, even relatives, are "premature" babies of parents who married due to pregnancy. My Catholic mother was relieved at the invention of the Pill.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And they all groaned at my crustacean joke (and I didn't even have crabs).
> 
> If you're not wearing your tiara, you may be called Bareness.


 Then you will see how quickly the room will clear. And honestly, the reference to pubic enemy #1 never crossed my mind!!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2013/08/05/index.html
> 
> Of course women generally feel AWFUL about having to have had an abortion, but VERY few regret it or wish they'd made a different choice.


Exactly what I wanted to write although anecdotally. In the 70s, I knew many women who had abortions and it certainly did not overwhelm them with guilt. They knew their decisions were the right ones and went on to have good lives with children. It is hardly a new phenomenon. Through out the history of women, there have been abortions. Nothing new there. And that history will continue. So MoveOn.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My ululations are fine, thank you very much, but I'd like to try out for the bean sidhe part.


It's yours, no audition needed!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't forget KIN. I'm beginning to think she's an alter ego of KPG's or some other extremely hysterical RWN.


damemary said:


> Please Lisa (CB, Country Bumpkins.) You've done it again....calling others names you think you know are theirs. Are you trying to hurt them? If not, the practice must have your blessing.
> 
> I have always conjectured that KPG created you, yarnlady and lovethelake in his/her own image.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shhh! You have actually tumbled her. Her surname is actually Snowden and she is spying here, hoping to release all our posts to the press. She believes these KP messages are coded messages sent by the Government and it is her duty to make public each and every government secret. She is hiding out in somewhere in Russia. How do I know this, well I will come clean. As you all know I am an Australian, but I am not living in Australia at the moment, I am hiding out in a foreign embassy in London and my first name is Julian.


Julian, your secret is safe with us, unless it Leaks out. But if we refer to CB as "Edward" s/he'll cry that we're not being nice to her.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am sorry Neb -- I just don't buy that. So many things are stated which I do not believe are facts.


So which things do you believe are not true? That our government will pay to put thousands of children in foster care but not financially support adoption? In 2011, 400,540 children were in foster care. Here's a sourcehttp://www.transitionschildrensservices.org/foster-care.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwre6dBRC94d-Gma7g3wcSJACNatZen1vpGicl2sa4uF__j2JOAb5Yt2isFF6NfRXlEZqBFxoCUF_w_wcB

Or that Obama's science czar didn't advocate forced sterilization and forced birth control? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/
I know some of you don't like FOX news so I'll give you the information and you can look it up yourself. You can even read his book online. The book is called, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment", by John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich and Anne Ehrlich. Within the articles are links to take you right to the pages involved. If you don't trust FOX, just Google it. There are many places where you can access the entire book for free.

Or the fact that our government forced sterilizations?http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/26/us/north-carolina-sterilization-payments/
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/nativevoices/timeline/543.html


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You know the joy of bringing a child into your life. I can't speak for Canada but here in the US, it is very expensive. Adoption agencies charge huge fees. You've charges for the adoption, charges for the home study, charges for arrest record searches for every state you've lived in, charges for medical physical, charges for your lawyer, charges for the child's lawyer, court filing fees, registration fees, it goes on and on! The average adoption in the US, costs between $10,000 and $15000! Not many people can afford that! So every time somebody accuses those who are against abortion, of not caring enough to adopt all of the unwanted babies, keep that in mind!


I've read about many families adopting for the state aid given. The children almost always have issues from severe health problems to emotional and mental disorders.

A popular but creepy trend in fundamentalist families is adopting from overseas. The families hold yard sales, spaghetti dinners, etc, even crowdfunding, to adopt. What is really heartbreaking is that so many of the kids come here, everyone involves can't adjust, and the children are "rehomed." Really sad.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> But we need to be nice to genuine covens, oh shiny shard of shell--


Not to the phony ones, Mater of a Copulative Verb.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Julian, your secret is safe with us, unless it Leaks out. But if we refer to CB as "Edward" s/he'll cry that we're not being nice to her.


So long as we don't say "Mr. Ed."

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Cheracol cough syrup containing codeine was still available through the early 1950's.


No wonder Dad took it whenever his throat bothered him.

I have a relative who was addicted to codeine. It turned his life into a mess and now he can't even communicate with his two children because his wife fought like a tigress to keep him away from them.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not to the phony ones, Mater of a Copulative Verb.


...covering tender ears...copulative?? Gosh, do I love you! (but not THAT way!!!)

:twisted: :twisted:

Dear mother of goddess, I just got your implication. I bow to your superior mind!!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So which things do you believe are not true? That our government will pay to put thousands of children in foster care but not financially support adoption? In 2011, 400,540 children were in foster care. Here's a sourcehttp://www.transitionschildrensservices.org/foster-care.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwre6dBRC94d-Gma7g3wcSJACNatZen1vpGicl2sa4uF__j2JOAb5Yt2isFF6NfRXlEZqBFxoCUF_w_wcB
> 
> Or that Obama's science czar didn't advocate forced sterilization and forced birth control? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/
> I know some of you don't like FOX news so I'll give you the information and you can look it up yourself. You can even read his book online. The book is called, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment", by John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich and Anne Ehrlich. Within the articles are links to take you right to the pages involved. If you don't trust FOX, just Google it. There are many places where you can access the entire book for free.
> ...


Forced sterilizations have been with people since civilization began. That's an whole 'nother can of worms. I have read about how adoption costs for foster children are kept high by states so the states can continue receiving $$ for those kids. Many of the developmentally delayed people I cared for had been sterilized, and they certainly didn't understand the ramifications. I read where a woman convicted of welfare fraud was ordered to undergo sterilization if she wanted to continue receiving welfare, and you can imagine the hue and cry over that. It's just a horrible, difficult story and making the best of a bad situation, no matter how angelic we paint mothers who relinquish their children and the parents who adopt them. Everybody suffers at some point.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who are your religious zealots? If you are referring to born-again Christians (conservatives), you are so wrong. If you have studied the real history of the US, you will find they are the ones responsible for the end of slavery and civil rights.


What are religious zealots accomplishing now?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> why are you pointing at Women only? Does it not take two to create a new Life? Did you teach your Boys to respect women and keep their stuff in their pants until they can take full responsibility for the possible result of sex? Are Women of lesser worth than Men in your World just because they show signs of hanky panky? Explain please. I am sick and tired of Women being attacked while guys go their merry way and spread their stuff leisurely. Pregnant Women need compassion and not your ire.


I speak of women because they are the ones who decide whether or not to have an abortion! No one else! The father has no say!

And YES! I pounded it into my son's heads, "Don't make a baby until your ready to be a father". I had many conversations with them about what their child's life would be like if they did. I made them think about the fact that they would have no say in how their child was raised, that they may not be allowed to see their child, and at best they would be a weekend father. I told them to put themselves in the position of that child. Think of what it would do to their own child. I asked them if a few moments of pleasure were worth destroying the life of a child. None of my children were promiscuous. They rarely dated until they were in committed relationships. I taught my daughter the same thing, with the same results! So, point your finger elsewhere!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not to the phony ones, Mater of a Copulative Verb.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing. I'd always thought these things were way back in history. I also thought that people helped each other more. I thought that there was a morality among people, that they wouldn't sit back and watch suffering or beat little old ladies on the street. Or steal, not out of need, but greed. I'd thought that people wouldn't kill for no reason. I'd thought that people loved their countries, towns and neighbors. I've always read stories of people sacrificing to help others. So many heroic stories! I guess they were the exception, not the rule.
> 
> I grew up in the Midwest, in the 60's. It seemed like an idyllic time. It seemed a time of the simple life. People were responsible, hard working and involved. I've watched society disintegrate. I'm sad that my kids and grandkids have a different world. When I was a kid, children were safe. We played outside all day and went everywhere. We used our imaginations and created everything in our minds. Now we have to watch them even in our own yards, which are barely big enough to run and play. They can't explore and imagine because they're locked away in their homes. Was it always dangerous for kids, and I just didn't know it? Were people always selfish to the point where they'd just take whatever they wanted? That isn't the life I lived! People helped each other. People looked out for each other. People always defended women and children. In my world, evil was the exception to the rule. I'm lucky to have been born where and when I was.


Nebraska, I think it's good that you've had your eyes opened to the real world. I grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, which was a poor and often unsafe neighborhood, but my childhood was a lot like yours, or at least seemed that way to us. People watched out for their neighbors' children, and doors were left unlocked.

But the truth is that it was no better then than it is now. It was somewhat safer because fortunately guns were rare then, so we never got to see the results of drive-by shootings which today's kids have to witness. We had no idea that some of the older kids were taking drugs or holding up grocery stores. I don't think life has ever been as safe and secure as it seems to children, even among the wealthy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Perhaps to give you a taste of your own medicine. You have made some rather Mean Girl remarks yourself, although you seem immune to the self knowledge that would make you aware of how unpleasant you can be. I have seen some of your comments where you truly seem to have the potential to be a nice person. Is it the anonymity of using an avatar that lets you show your less pleasant side? If you met one of us, perhaps Purl, perhaps Shirley, perhaps me, in a social setting, would you make some of the insulting comments you find so amusing?


Um, Marilyn, I seriously doubt that sentences like your second one will actually be understood, let alone absorbed. She is _not_ NSA material.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I speak of women because they are the ones who decide whether or not to have an abortion! No one else! The father has no say!
> 
> And YES! I pounded it into my son's heads, "Don't make a baby until your ready to be a father". I had many conversations with them about what their child's life would be like if they did. I made them think about the fact that they would have no say in how their child was raised, that they may not be allowed to see their child, and at best they would be a weekend father. I told them to put themselves in the position of that child. Think of what it would do to their own child. I asked them if a few moments of pleasure were worth destroying the life of a child. None of my children were promiscuous. They rarely dated until they were in committed relationships. I taught my daughter the same thing, with the same results! So, point your finger elsewhere!


The father has no say now. That could turn on a proverbial dime. Do you remember the child called "Baby Richard?" His parents were unmarried East European immigrants. They fought constantly and broke up. The mother told the father that the baby had been stillborn. She relinquished the baby who was adopted by a firefighter and his wife. They had the little guy for 2-3 years. Bio mom told bio dad, who went to court to dissolve the adoption. They went back and forth for 2 years, ended up with the adoptive parents having to give the boy back to the bio parents. Bio parents married. Bio parents break up after less than a year. Boy is with the bio mother who didn't want to keep him. Who won? Nobody.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maysmom said:


> I don't think that KFN meant to cause you any hurt, MIB. When I suffered the first of my 3 miscarriages, my father told me that it was better that the baby did not live instead of being born handicapped.
> As I've written, my baby brother died of a brain tumor shortly before his second birthday. He was diagnosed at 6 months of age.
> 
> Dad and my mother never spoke of my brother after his death. Dad is gone now, and Mom is descending into dementia rapidly, so I won't hear if they felt it would have been better for Jimmy to have never been born than to suffer so much of his short life.


I don't think KIN was deliberately trying to hurt me. I think she is so obsessed with the subject of abortion that she just HAS to get some related remark in whenever she thinks there's an opening. I think your story and mine and those of a few others are facets of the entire subject of reproduction, as abortion is as well, and could engender a broader discussion about reproduction.

As to the subject of miscarriage, I think it's nature's form of abortion and that it does indeed happen because there is something profoundly wrong with what might become a living human being. It's pretty cold comfort, however, to be reminded of that.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I lived in the Midwest in a small farm town during my formative years and had much the same life experiences. We could go anywhere safely. We could play outside. Even during my earliest years in a densely populated section of Brooklyn, NY, we could play freely outside. People left their doors unlocked and any child could run into any downstairs apartment, let the lady of the house know he or she was there, use the bathroom, and get a drink of water.
> 
> Now there is greater denseness of population and the economy among other social factors have depressed many people's hope. It is a gun toting culture even where gun control laws are serious. There is an erosion in the progress of religious tolerance. Copts and Kurds are not safe. Jews have been driven from their long tenures in places like Iran and Turkey. Fundamentalists push to steal whatever progress women have made toward equality.
> 
> We have to keep making our voices heard at the polling booth, in op ed columns, at public meetings, wherever we can do so to protect our freedoms and by extrapolation push for freedoms around the world by example. The more religious zealots take charge in the US, the more license we give religious zealots of every stripe around the world.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: which doesn't do justice to your very thoughtful message.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who are they?


Who are the religious zealots you are referring to? You did mention them first. The religious zealots I'm thinking of are those who would restrict the rights of women and children while pandering to corporations. Oops, those should have no religious affiliations at all (but they do.)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> We have choices and the freedom to choose. I wonder how many freak shows you view, I have never seen a realty show. I can however state that in years past the songs were not all peaches and cream either. And why is the older generation so hooked on Bonnie and Clyde, Scar Face and bloody Wars? Does that speak of gentleness to you? Why is there such gun support by older folks? Are they looking for Peace, honestly? Give this some thought.


I don't watch any freak shows. In fact, I rarely watch any TV at all. The same goes with movies.

You ask, "Why is there such gun support by older folks?". IMO, there are three reasons, freedom, freedom and freedom!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

littlebaba said:


> My mother had me when she was 19. First she left me 5 years in my grandmothers care, went to another country, visited once a year, but was most of the time doing something with old girlfriends. When I was 6 she had to take me because my grandmother got cancer. I never got a hug, or a " well done " . I was just a space holder. I had my son when I was 20 and I loved him with all my heart, still do.
> Some people are just not made to be parents.


You're right about that, though I think that after 5 years away from you felt like a stranger to her and she couldn't warm up to you. Well done you, you managed to arrange your life much better than she did hers.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't watch any freak shows. In fact, I rarely watch any TV at all. The same goes with movies.
> 
> You ask, "Why is there such gun support by older folks?". IMO, there are three reasons, freedom, freedom and freedom!


Who needs the freedom to own a semi-automatic assault rifle?
For target shooting? Really?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Never forget that there are many good things in our country. You seem so 'dark' sometimes, ready to believe the worst. It worries me.


You must acknowledge things before you can change them! If people ignore hidden atrocities, they grow until they become commonplace and accepted as normal.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO capitalist greed poses a real threat to the USA. Traditionally, we have been a country who goes to the aid in disasters, who rebuilds countries we defeated, opened our shores with the Statue of Liberty to the world's huddled masses. I'm ashamed at the change. We hurl epithets at buses of unaccompanied minors hoping to find safety from wars in their countries. We house them alone for how long in makeshift shelters and give them a concrete floor to sleep on, a thin blanket, no pillows to be seen. Then they say not to send supplies. Many seem to have no heart.


damemary
IF Republicans have their way, our once middle class will be living a 3rd World existence. They cater to the Rich and to Hell with the others. Why are they not opening their Temples of worship to the children? A Church Bench surely has to be more comfortable than a concrete Floor. So much for some so-called Christians.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Then you will see how quickly the room will clear. And honestly, the reference to pubic enemy #1 never crossed my mind!!


Honestly?

My first job after college was as copyeditor and proofreader for a company that published encyclopedias. We often found funny typos (like "there are three types of rock, igneous, metaphoric, and sedimentary" ), but I one day found "country" spelled without the o. The man who saw my correction was shocked and embarrassed and hoped I didn't know what that word meant. But of course I did.

Which brings to mind another noble title for you, Parental Unit of the hawthorn.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Honestly?
> 
> My first job after college was as copyeditor and proofreader for a company that published encyclopedias. We often found funny typos (like "there are three types of rock, igneous, metaphoric, and sedimentary" ), but I one day found "country" spelled without the o. The man who saw my correction was shocked and embarrassed and hoped I didn't know what that word meant. But of course I did.
> 
> Which brings to mind another noble title for you, Parental Unit of the hawthorn.


Haw, haw, I like that! DD can be a prickly little pear sometimes. How about these rocks-ignorant, metaphoric, and sedentary? People live under these rocks, I tell you! (I was the copy editor of my high school yearbook, which shows just how small my graduating class was.)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's more, but you probably won't believe that, either. http://scienceprogress.org/2009/07/right-wing-attacks-on-science-adviser-continue/
> 
> After Holdren, Tiller, and Carhart, I'm not going to bother looking up anyone you see as evil. I can just take it for granted that they're not.


Here! Read page 787 yourself! These are actual photocopies of the pages themselves!

http://thedepopulationagenda.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/title_full.jpg


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bless your heart Karen.


Country Bumpkins
Your blessings are worthless don't you know by now?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So which things do you believe are not true?
> 
> Or that Obama's science czar didn't advocate forced sterilization and forced birth control? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/
> I know some of you don't like FOX news so I'll give you the information and you can look it up yourself. You can even read his book online. The book is called, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment", by John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich and Anne Ehrlich. Within the articles are links to take you right to the pages involved. If you don't trust FOX, just Google it. There are many places where you can access the entire book for free.


 I checked this out yesterday, and there was a perfectly good explanation for the material you found offensive: the authors were listing ways that population could be controlled and was being controlled elsewhere, *not advocating for them*. It's an overview, and refers to the "obvious moral objections on page 787.

Did you miss that? Or - as seems probable - do you simply copy whatever some "conservative" puts forward as a possibility without checking for accuracy?

Edited to add two observations:
1. The word "czar" is used for someone the government puts in a particular position without Senate approval. Holdren was given hearings and eventually approved by the Senate. He is therefore *not "Obama's science czar."*

2. The forced sterilization you refer to were done by the North Carolina government, not "our government" at all, between 1929 and 1974, when the disabled were treated very differently.

I'm really tired of looking up references that turn out to say the opposite of what you think they say. No more. If you respond to this message, I won't even bother to read it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I worry about that feeling which seems prevalent on the right too.
> 
> I have more faith in your country -- I think one of the main problems, looking in from outside - is not all the things Neb mentioned, although certainly they play a part -- it is the horrible division which is getting deeper and wider. There are those who actually hate and some to appear, to an outsider and others I know, to contribute to the hate rather than fight it.
> 
> ...


Do you people even listen to yourselves?!? You all speak as if the division is all caused by those on the right. Everything you accuse them of, you are guilty also!!! It doesn't matter what I say or what sources I post, I get shot down every time! I don't think any of you take one second to even consider what I say! You accused me of lying and making stuff up! You denigrate my opinions! You are as close minded as anyone else! You refuse to even consider that anything you thought was true, might not be! You say you are my friend! Is this how you treat your friends? I'm tired of being verbally beat up! You can have it! You can all be right!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> Your blessings are worthless don't you know by now?


And that is precisely why she bestows them so freely---


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I've read about many families adopting for the state aid given. The children almost always have issues from severe health problems to emotional and mental disorders.
> 
> A popular but creepy trend in fundamentalist families is adopting from overseas. The families hold yard sales, spaghetti dinners, etc, even crowdfunding, to adopt. What is really heartbreaking is that so many of the kids come here, everyone involves can't adjust, and the children are "rehomed." Really sad.


This is indeed creepy.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is indeed creepy.


There have been a few cases of child endangerment, even homicide, attached to the corporal punishment meted out by fundamentalists as promoted by Michael and Debi Pearl. Google their book "No Greater Joy" if you really want to be sickened.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't watch any freak shows. In fact, I rarely watch any TV at all. The same goes with movies.
> 
> You ask, "Why is there such gun support by older folks?". IMO, there are three reasons, freedom, freedom and freedom!


One could give those same reasons for terminating pregnancies.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're kidding. That's an intelligence agency.


Poor Purl
CB is most likely a member of Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee - what a joke that is. Do the Republicans have their own Apothecary - sure seems like it. They have the weirdest folks representing them - it must be in their meds or the cook is spiking their meals. Heavens the stuff they come up with is ripe for investigation by a Shrink, of course theirs is nuts as well just listen to him on Faux Entertainment.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Perhaps to give you a taste of your own medicine. You have made some rather Mean Girl remarks yourself, although you seem immune to the self knowledge that would make you aware of how unpleasant you can be. I have seen some of your comments where you truly seem to have the potential to be a nice person. Is it the anonymity of using an avatar that lets you show your less pleasant side? If you met one of us, perhaps Purl, perhaps Shirley, perhaps me, in a social setting, would you make some of the insulting comments you find so amusing?


I could ask you the same question.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> CB is most likely a member of Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee - what a joke that is. Do the Republicans have their own Apothecary - sure seems like it. They have the weirdest folks representing them - it must be in their meds or the cook is spiking their meals. Heavens the stuff they come up with is ripe for investigation by a Shrink, of course theirs is nuts as well just listen to him on Faux Entertainment.


brings new meaning to the term "oxyMORON"


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I could ask you the same question.


Ah the irony! You must be just crammed with forgiveness and heart blessings.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I could ask you the same question.


You could, but Marilyn isn't complaining about you being mean to her; that's what you're whining about.

Did you bother to read the whole message or just the last line? It seems to have been the latter.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> And that is precisely why she bestows them so freely---


maysmom
I know some Tea Partier who dishes out blessings right and left and he always adds "life is good". Come to find out that his whole Family is on Welfare, all grown-ups (white, gun toting Nuts) hating people of color with a passion. And so it goes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> CB is most likely a member of Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee - what a joke that is. Do the Republicans have their own Apothecary - sure seems like it. They have the weirdest folks representing them - it must be in their meds or the cook is spiking their meals. Heavens the stuff they come up with is ripe for investigation by a Shrink, of course theirs is nuts as well just listen to him on Faux Entertainment.


Please see maysmom's response. Boy, are they loony.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> I know some Tea Partier who dishes out blessings right and left and he always adds "life is good". Come to find out that his whole Family is on Welfare, all grown-ups (white, gun toting Nuts) hating people of color with a passion. And so it goes.


No surprise there, Huck. Even though they aren't poor, the Robertsons of "Duck Dynasty" costs their home state in tax credits for filming their show there. I think I read maybe $70,000 per episode?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you people even listen to yourselves?!? You all speak as if the division is all caused by those on the right. Everything you accuse them of, you are guilty also!!! It doesn't matter what I say or what sources I post, I get shot down every time! I don't think any of you take one second to even consider what I say! You accused me of lying and making stuff up! You denigrate my opinions! You are as close minded as anyone else! You refuse to even consider that anything you thought was true, might not be! You say you are my friend! Is this how you treat your friends? I'm tired of being verbally beat up! You can have it! You can all be right!


I have a good movie for you. It is the 1948 Snake Pit. It reminds me of this thread. :shock:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have a good movie for you. It is the 1948 Snake Pit. It reminds me of this thread. :shock:


Maybe you might want to check up on some newer flicks.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Maybe you might want to check up on some newer flicks.


Oh, no. _The Snake Pit_ would be the perfect introduction to CB.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, no. _The Snake Pit_ would be the perfect introduction to CB.


Glad that I'm not a movie buff. Unless there's a hot buff guy in the buff
(covering Maysdad's eyes)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Hit Send prematurely.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you people even listen to yourselves?!? You all speak as if the division is all caused by those on the right. Everything you accuse them of, you are guilty also!!! It doesn't matter what I say or what sources I post, I get shot down every time! I don't think any of you take one second to even consider what I say! You accused me of lying and making stuff up! You denigrate my opinions! You are as close minded as anyone else! You refuse to even consider that anything you thought was true, might not be! You say you are my friend! Is this how you treat your friends? I'm tired of being verbally beat up! You can have it! You can all be right!


And so it goes in the liberal world. We tried to tell you about this group but you chose to see for yourself. Months later everything remains the same. You were their token toy and were fun to play with. Oh well.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And so it goes in the liberal world. We tried to tell you about this group but you chose to see for yourself. Months later everything remains the same. You were their token toy and were fun to play with. Oh well.


Missy, you cannot tell KFN anything. (Actually, you can't tell anyone anything of sense, but we know that.) She makes the effort to see other sides, not just her own. She doesn't blast on just to be obnoxious, like you and your cream cheese kaffee clatch. Point your crooked finger elsewhere.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Hit Send prematurely.


What is it with you and those tails?? There's enough to distract me, with all the stud muffins on TV (I wish, lol)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you people even listen to yourselves?!? You all speak as if the division is all caused by those on the right. Everything you accuse them of, you are guilty also!!! It doesn't matter what I say or what sources I post, I get shot down every time! I don't think any of you take one second to even consider what I say! You accused me of lying and making stuff up! You denigrate my opinions! You are as close minded as anyone else! You refuse to even consider that anything you thought was true, might not be! You say you are my friend! Is this how you treat your friends? I'm tired of being verbally beat up! You can have it! You can all be right!


As one who usually follows your links and reads your messages, and respects your honesty, I think you've come away with the wrong message. These subjects aren't new to us - we've seen all these arguments before on numerous online forums. And we've also seen them debunked.

What most of us reject are tired old stories that may be new to you but not to everyone. You tend to limit your sources to very biased ones (for the most part, I do, too) who have an ax to grind and will even make things up if that helps them win over some supporters. Yesterday I complained about 3 people whom I looked up and found that the links you sent did not say what you thought. Today you've given one of those links to someone else. And it still doesn't say what Fox News and you claim it says.

You also have a tendency to agree with things in which the first paragraph speaks to your beliefs, even though the rest of it is offensive and insulting. I find this unacceptable. In addition, you have the habit most bigots have in lumping all people with one characteristic in common into one big blob, as if they think alike about everything. It's not *we* who called you a liar; it's just one or two of us.

After the first two or three conspiracies you've joined with, whoever you're speaking to is going to tire of seeing any more, mainly because we've seen their evidence before (some of these conspiracies go back to the John Birch Socy and even earlier) and found it to be ridiculous.

Maybe if you did more research and advocated only for those things that really made sense, you'd probably find us more accepting. I know that's how I'd feel, even if the rest can't. One of the things you harp on is how our monetary policy is going to drive us into bankruptcy. This may be new to you, but it goes back at least to the Great Depression, and thus far _not one_ of its predictions has come true. Why shouldn't I give up on reading such messages?

In fact, in a separate message I'm going to post a column by Paul Krugman in yesterday's NYTimes, with the hope that you'll read it seriously. I think I can guess what your response will be, even though the column is by a Nobel Prize-winning former Princeton Univ. professor of economics. (You once gave me the name of the person whose economics you find acceptable - IIRC, he had a BA in economics and otherwise did other things. I'd never think of this person as an expert without many demonstrations that his predictions had come to pass.)

Okay, enough.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

*Beliefs, Facts and Money
Conservative Delusions About Inflation*
JULY 6, 2014
Paul Krugman

On Sunday The Times published an article by the political scientist Brendan Nyhan about a troubling aspect of the current American scene  the stark partisan divide over issues that should be simply factual, like whether the planet is warming or evolution happened. Its common to attribute such divisions to ignorance, but as Mr. Nyhan points out, the divide is actually worse among those who are seemingly better informed about the issues.

The problem, in other words, isnt ignorance; its wishful thinking. Confronted with a conflict between evidence and what they want to believe for political and/or religious reasons, many people reject the evidence. And knowing more about the issues widens the divide, because the well informed have a clearer view of which evidence they need to reject to sustain their belief system.

As you might guess, after reading Mr. Nyhan I found myself thinking about the similar state of affairs when it comes to economics, monetary economics in particular.

Some background: On the eve of the Great Recession, many conservative pundits and commentators  and quite a few economists  had a worldview that combined faith in free markets with disdain for government. Such people were briefly rocked back on their heels by the revelation that the bubbleheads who warned about housing were right, and the further revelation that unregulated financial markets are dangerously unstable. But they quickly rallied, declaring that the financial crisis was somehow the fault of liberals  and that the great danger now facing the economy came not from the crisis but from the efforts of policy makers to limit the damage.

Above all, there were many dire warnings about the evils of printing money. For example, in May 2009 an editorial in The Wall Street Journal warned that both interest rates and inflation were set to surge now that Congress and the Federal Reserve have flooded the world with dollars. In 2010 a virtual Whos Who of conservative economists and pundits sent an open letter to Ben Bernanke warning that his policies risked currency debasement and inflation. Prominent politicians like Representative Paul Ryan joined the chorus.

Reality, however, declined to cooperate. Although the Fed continued on its expansionary course  its balance sheet has grown to more than $4 trillion, up fivefold since the start of the crisis  inflation stayed low. For the most part, the funds the Fed injected into the economy simply piled up either in bank reserves or in cash holdings by individuals  which was exactly what economists on the other side of the divide had predicted would happen.

Needless to say, its not the first time a politically appealing economic doctrine has been proved wrong by events. So those who got it wrong went back to the drawing board, right? Hahahahaha.

In fact, hardly any of the people who predicted runaway inflation have acknowledged that they were wrong, and that the error suggests something amiss with their approach. Some have offered lame excuses; some, following in the footsteps of climate-change deniers, have gone down the conspiracy-theory rabbit hole, claiming that we really do have soaring inflation, but the government is lying about the numbers (and by the way, were not talking about random bloggers or something; were talking about famous Harvard professors). Mainly, though, the currency-debasement crowd just keeps repeating the same lines, ignoring its utter failure in prognostication.

You might wonder why monetary theory gets treated like evolution or climate change. Isnt the question of how to manage the money supply a technical issue, not a matter of theological doctrine?

Well, it turns out that money is indeed a kind of theological issue. Many on the right are hostile to any kind of government activism, seeing it as the thin edge of the wedge  if you concede that the Fed can sometimes help the economy by creating fiat money, the next thing you know liberals will confiscate your wealth and give it to the 47 percent. Also, lets not forget that quite a few influential conservatives, including Mr. Ryan, draw their inspiration from Ayn Rand novels in which the gold standard takes on essentially sacred status.

And if you look at the internal dynamics of the Republican Party, its obvious that the currency-debasement, return-to-gold faction has been gaining strength even as its predictions keep failing.

Can anything reverse this descent into dogma? A few conservative intellectuals have been trying to persuade their movement to embrace monetary activism, but theyre ever more marginalized. And thats just what Mr. Nyhans article would lead us to expect. When faith  including faith-based economics  meets evidence, evidence doesnt stand a chance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/07/opinion/paul-krugman-conservative-delusions-about-inflation.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> *Beliefs, Facts and Money
> Conservative Delusions About Inflation*
> JULY 6, 2014
> Paul Krugman
> ...


This was printed in my local paper today.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And so it goes in the liberal world. We tried to tell you about this group but you chose to see for yourself. Months later everything remains the same. You were their token toy and were fun to play with. Oh well.


Excuse me, but do you even know what you're talking about?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> And so it goes in the liberal world. We tried to tell you about this group but you chose to see for yourself. Months later everything remains the same. You were their token toy and were fun to play with. Oh well.


soloweygirl
the problem is that you folks are in a Box and have great difficulty following us. We are a very diverse bunch with great intellect that you are not used to. Look at your threads, SOS for 100s of pages - b o r i n g! And whatever humor you try to share, it is kid's stuff - no wonder you seek our company. And when you join us, leave your cut and paste behind, it is worthless.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> This was printed in my local paper today.


I hope you read it. It's very clear and very intelligent. I think it should be printed in every local paper.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Excuse me, but do you even know what you're talking about?


Of course she doesn't, she's just trying to play with KFN's head. She's jealous that KFN isn't a Stepford wife and eluded their tentacles.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope you read it. It's very clear and very intelligent. I think it should be printed in every local paper.


I did read it, o glowing orb. I knew you'd ask!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> What is it with you and those tails?? There's enough to distract me, with all the stud muffins on TV (I wish, lol)


When I send a blank message, I like to put a little entertainment into it. Those tails are very entertaining.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I did read it, o glowing orb. I knew you'd ask!!


Then I don't have to give a pop quiz on it, Progenitor of the tiny hawthorn.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Then I don't have to give a pop quiz on it, Progenitor of the tiny hawthorn.


Fanning self---good! All I can see are those cute little piggy tails bouncing up and down.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> This was printed in my local paper today.


maysmom 
should be printed everywhere at least once weekly to sink in. You know, some follks need a steady diet to digest anything at all.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Fanning self---good! All I can see are those cute little piggy tails bouncing up and down.


maysmom
you and Purl should write a play or sketch your thoughts - that could be a little risky however. What do you think?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> you and Purl should write a play or sketch your thoughts - that could be a little risky however. What do you think?


Risky, Huck. Both of us working together rather than opposite each other can be destructive.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> should be printed everywhere at least once weekly to sink in. You know, some follks need a steady diet to digest anything at all.


Maybe engraved on a sledge hammer instead.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Risky, Huck. Both of us working together rather than opposite each other can be destructive.


I think she means risque. But we'd be damn funny.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Maybe engraved on a sledge hammer instead.


maysmom
now I would be happy to contribute to the purchase of such an item.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I think she means risque. But we'd be damn funny.


maysmom
risque and funny is a wonderful combination. I vote for it. I actually meant risky but like risque even better.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MorenaKnit said:


> What the heck are you talking about?
> 
> You told purl that VocalLisa was now V0calLisa. It doesn't seem to me VocalLisa does much to "hide" herself.
> 
> ...


I heard about that. There was some new person who wrote a disgusting message about Obama and is probably an unashamed racist, and a few of them seemed to agree with her. In fact, one of them, the very holy KnitCrazy, said that Obama probably has HIV. Is that a Christian thing to say? But KPG accused the newbie of being Lisa. So, naturally, they threw her out. I hope she's gone for good.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I heard about that. There was some new person who wrote a disgusting message about Obama and is probably an unashamed racist, and a few of them seemed to agree with her. In fact, one of them, the very holy KnitCrazy, said that Obama probably has HIV. Is that a Christian thing to say? But KPG accused the newbie of being Lisa. So, naturally, they threw her out. I hope she's gone for good.


Poor Purl
Now and then I try very hard to think as crazy as CB and her Co-Horts, Boy, I just can't get that low. I guess one has to be brought up that way and then surround oneself with dummies who do not have the capacity to recognize all of their shortcomings. Perhaps it is lack of morality that allows them to be nasty while they are trying to cover up with carrying a Bible everywhere they roam. Pretending doesn't cut it. Huck.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> LOL, wait till they find out that CB is actually VocalLisa. For all we know, KPG might be both of them. You got to admit that KPG and VocalLisa are like devilish twins. KPG in particular is like a puppet master on D & P. When she says something and they all scramble to please her. It would be hilarious if VocalLisa had been pulling their strings all along!


True Athena
Those folks are on so many strings, that they are caught in a tangled mess from which there is no escape.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins. 
Here a photo of your Nightmare. Huck and Ingried
That should clarify it. Bless you dear.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins
sorry, disregard the prev. picture, wrong one, this one shows Huck and Ingried. Enjoy.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins.
> Here a photo of your Nightmare. Huck and Ingried
> That should clarify it. Bless you dear.


Did you knit those outfits? I used to tease Cooke about knitting doll clothes. I miss her. Where is she?

Very funny, btw.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Did you knit those outfits? I used to tease Cooke about knitting doll clothes. I miss her. Where is she?
> 
> Very funny, btw.


SQM
you should see the wardrobe these Ladies have. Yes, I made them. I much enjoy creating doll clothing and then copy some for myself.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> you should see the wardrobe these Ladies have. Yes, I made them. I much enjoy creating doll clothing and then copy some for myself.


Would love to see a doll dress and a copy you made for yourself. I assume you do your own designing. Clap Clap.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena
you really found the correct passage to fit them. Beware of the Devils among us for they have very deceptive ways.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why oh why can't you just stay or leave and be done with it. I, for one, am bored with your monthly why am I here whine. Are you really that insecure that you post this same crap over and over hoping that everyone will stroke your ego? In the end, I suppose your ego gets what it needs, after all you are still here.


The same could be said for you, solowey. At least she has something to say.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I tried to tell you about Lisa along time ago. You didn't believe me then. I knew about who some others are too but I won't drag them into it.
> I know for a fact that Huck is Ingried . I don't want to have to look thru 2 years of post to prove it. You said it yourself yesterday. I don't know why anyone needs more than one id.
> Thank you I appreciate you not calling me a name I am not. You know I am the one and only. If Huck can prove to me she is not Ingried I will tell her I am sorry.


Would you mind telling us how you come about getting this information?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Would love to see a doll dress and a copy you made for yourself. I assume you do your own designing. Clap Clap.


SQM
shall bring out some when the cool weather sets in and show them. I do design and have made some weird things not to be worn in public, just for the heck of it. They become conversation pieces at knit meetings. Can't have boring knitting get-togethers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't watch any freak shows. In fact, I rarely watch any TV at all. The same goes with movies.
> 
> You ask, "Why is there such gun support by older folks?". IMO, there are three reasons, freedom, freedom and freedom!


There is no freedom for the whom the gun is aimed at.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Would you mind telling us how you come about getting this information?


Bratty Patty
if I may, the holy ghost told her. Talked to her in tongues and she got it all mixed up. And so it goes.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> And I'm completely serious about it. Just think about how they profess to be so "Godly", but their "fruits" are so cruel, uncompassionate and "unChristian".
> 
> They actually HURT Christianity as they make good people stay away from Christ's true heart and turn Him into someone ugly and hateful like they.


TrueAthena
I hear you and agree that folks like some here are turning others against Faith. Those who always have God on the tip of their tongue seem to have nothing but hatred in their Hearts. The direct opposite of Christianity.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> And I'm completely serious about it. Just think about how they profess to be so "Godly", but their "fruits" are so cruel, uncompassionate and "unChristian".
> 
> They actually HURT Christianity as they make good people stay away from Christ's true heart and turn Him into someone ugly and hateful like they.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> if I may, the holy ghost told her. Talked to her in tongues and she got is all mixed up. And so it goes.


Huck,
Sad that the Holy Ghost can't keep private info to himself.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Purl, thanks for posting the Krugman piece. Too bad we can't make it required reading for a certain faction sometimes among us.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> now I would be happy to contribute to the purchase of such an item.


Think of the $$ we could raise for charity. And raffle off the chance to swing it, like the "ring the bell" game at carnivals.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> sorry, disregard the prev. picture, wrong one, this one shows Huck and Ingried. Enjoy.


You're the one in white, right?
:shock: :shock:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

The devil has more angles than anything!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> The same could be said for you, solowey. At least she has something to say.


Her avatar's neater, too.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Would you mind telling us how you come about getting this information?


She knows all....sees all.... all right??


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Now and then I try very hard to think as crazy as CB and her Co-Horts, Boy, I just can't get that low. I guess one has to be brought up that way and then surround oneself with dummies who do not have the capacity to recognize all of their shortcomings. Perhaps it is lack of morality that allows them to be nasty while they are trying to cover up with carrying a Bible everywhere they roam. Pretending doesn't cut it. Huck.


When one's nose is as high in the air, not enough oxygen enters the bloodstream.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> LOL, wait till they find out that CB is actually VocalLisa. For all we know, KPG might be both of them. You got to admit that KPG and VocalLisa are like devilish twins. KPG in particular is like a puppet master on D & P. When she says something and they all scramble to please her. It would be hilarious if VocalLisa had been pulling their strings all along!


Which is the evil twin? And are you implying that VL pulls the strings on LOLL? I don't think so.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Which is the evil twin? And are you implying that VL pulls the strings on LOLL? I don't think so.


Of course! She probably tells Obama what to do also.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Now and then I try very hard to think as crazy as CB and her Co-Horts, Boy, I just can't get that low. I guess one has to be brought up that way and then surround oneself with dummies who do not have the capacity to recognize all of their shortcomings. Perhaps it is lack of morality that allows them to be nasty while they are trying to cover up with carrying a Bible everywhere they roam. Pretending doesn't cut it. Huck.


Huck, you can't think that crazy because you're sane. Don't even try. It's more likely lack of a conscience (though that may be the same as lack of morality), but the way they agree on everything so Stepfordly also allows them to not notice how nasty they - or each other - are.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins.
> Here a photo of your Nightmare. Huck and Ingried
> That should clarify it. Bless you dear.


Obviously they're two different people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> sorry, disregard the prev. picture, wrong one, this one shows Huck and Ingried. Enjoy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> The devil has more angles than anything!
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


That's why bad guys are crooked.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Of course! She probably tells Obama what to do also.


She must be the Puppet Czar(ina).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Then you will see how quickly the room will clear. And honestly, the reference to pubic enemy #1 never crossed my mind!!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't forget KIN. I'm beginning to think she's an alter ego of KPG's or some other extremely hysterical RWN.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Julian, your secret is safe with us, unless it Leaks out. But if we refer to CB as "Edward" s/he'll cry that we're not being nice to her.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Eve started this laugh. Snowden. Her secret is safe with me. She can hide out in the Wild West anytime....nicer than Russia.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't believe this for a minute. Think. Forced sterilization? Are you mad? In this day and age? The Federal Government?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So which things do you believe are not true? That our government will pay to put thousands of children in foster care but not financially support adoption? In 2011, 400,540 children were in foster care. Here's a sourcehttp://www.transitionschildrensservices.org/foster-care.html?gclid=CjwKEAjwre6dBRC94d-Gma7g3wcSJACNatZen1vpGicl2sa4uF__j2JOAb5Yt2isFF6NfRXlEZqBFxoCUF_w_wcB
> 
> Or that Obama's science czar didn't advocate forced sterilization and forced birth control? http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/
> I know some of you don't like FOX news so I'll give you the information and you can look it up yourself. You can even read his book online. The book is called, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment", by John Holdren, Paul Ehrlich and Anne Ehrlich. Within the articles are links to take you right to the pages involved. If you don't trust FOX, just Google it. There are many places where you can access the entire book for free.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not to the phony ones, Mater of a Copulative Verb.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: They're baaaack!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> So long as we don't say "Mr. Ed."
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Wilberrrrr!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Freedom to risk life and limb? Freedom to make suicide easy for family members? Freedom to provide a burgler with a gun when he forgets his?



maysmom said:


> Who needs the freedom to own a semi-automatic assault rifle?
> For target shooting? Really?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so ashamed.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> IF Republicans have their way, our once middle class will be living a 3rd World existence. They cater to the Rich and to Hell with the others. Why are they not opening their Temples of worship to the children? A Church Bench surely has to be more comfortable than a concrete Floor. So much for some so-called Christians.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wouldn't it be as easy to keep them to herself? Wish I could think of something to bestow on her in return? Curses? Cow paddies? Rude gestures?



maysmom said:


> And that is precisely why she bestows them so freely---


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> One could give those same reasons for terminating pregnancies.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Bravo Purl. Perfect answer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> CB is most likely a member of Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee - what a joke that is. Do the Republicans have their own Apothecary - sure seems like it. They have the weirdest folks representing them - it must be in their meds or the cook is spiking their meals. Heavens the stuff they come up with is ripe for investigation by a Shrink, of course theirs is nuts as well just listen to him on Faux Entertainment.


Proof that recreational weed is legal in two states so far.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You could, but it wouldn't make any sense.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I could ask you the same question.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Purl. I read it all.



Poor Purl said:


> *Beliefs, Facts and Money
> Conservative Delusions About Inflation*
> JULY 6, 2014
> Paul Krugman
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course not, silly.



Poor Purl said:


> Excuse me, but do you even know what you're talking about?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd read every word and keep the phone handy to dial 911 when I can't catch my breath.



Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> you and Purl should write a play or sketch your thoughts - that could be a little risky however. What do you think?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Maybe engraved on a sledge hammer instead.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> LOL, wait till they find out that CB is actually VocalLisa. For all we know, KPG might be both of them. You got to admit that KPG and VocalLisa are like devilish twins. KPG in particular is like a puppet master on D & P. When she says something and they all scramble to please her. It would be hilarious if VocalLisa had been pulling their strings all along!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think I see a family resemblance.



Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins.
> Here a photo of your Nightmare. Huck and Ingried
> That should clarify it. Bless you dear.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is anyone else having trouble with the Quote Reply function?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was going to reply to the comment but Quote Reply function did not work. Any one else having a problem with that?

Very appropriate use of Biblical quote.



Huckleberry said:


> TrueAthena
> you really found the correct passage to fit them. Beware of the Devils among us for they have very deceptive ways.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who are your religious zealots? If you are referring to born-again Christians (conservatives), you are so wrong. If you have studied the real history of the US, you will find they are the ones responsible for the end of slavery and civil rights.


The zealots are the ones who tell the rest of us we are doomed if we do not observe as they do. They do not recognize the validity of anyone else's different religious belief. It is their way or the highway. And yes, there are some among the Jewish people. Some of the extremely right wing Orthodox are as insular and zealous as one can find. They are a small minority who have no tolerance or acceptance for Jews who do not observe as they do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She makes it up just like the rest of her rubbish.



BrattyPatty said:


> Would you mind telling us how you come about getting this information?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> There is no freedom for the whom the gun is aimed at.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> And I'm completely serious about it. Just think about how they profess to be so "Godly", but their "fruits" are so cruel, uncompassionate and "unChristian".
> 
> They actually HURT Christianity as they make good people stay away from Christ's true heart and turn Him into someone ugly and hateful like they.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Wow. I mean we're all prone to "liking" a few conspiracy theories here and there. Be it "Oswald was a patsy" ... or heck, sometimes I kind of think the "Ancient Alien" theories aren't so crazy!
> 
> But, OMG, is there ANY RIDICULOUS conspiracy theory she doesn't buy into?


Not a single one. Hook, line & sinker.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> CB is most likely a member of Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee - what a joke that is. Do the Republicans have their own Apothecary - sure seems like it. They have the weirdest folks representing them - it must be in their meds or the cook is spiking their meals. Heavens the stuff they come up with is ripe for investigation by a Shrink, of course theirs is nuts as well just listen to him on Faux Entertainment.


Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee? An annotated oxymoron?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Dame, I can't claim credit for that one--on one of my nursing school exams, the instructor had written this question:

What is pubic enemy # 1

Answer, of course: Pubic lice, aka crabs.

That teacher was so great I named my kid after her. She came to May's wedding and had a blast.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Well, maybe she TRIED to like she did with the D&P group, but it just didn't work as well with the L.O.L.Lers the way it did with them?


Probably because the LOLLers are too lazy and just want to loll around.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Wouldn't it be as easy to keep them to herself? Wish I could think of something to bestow on her in return? Curses? Cow paddies? Rude gestures?


All of the above?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I was going to reply to the comment but Quote Reply function did not work. Any one else having a problem with that?
> 
> Very appropriate use of Biblical quote.


That happened to me earlier, maybe last night, I'm not sure. When I hit Quote Reply I got an old message from CB, not the message I was replying to. So I thought I'd copy and paste, and it had been deleted. Weird.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> She makes it up just like the rest of her rubbish.


No, she keeps files on us going back years, so that she can pull out somebody's name and look smart, only that part doesn't work.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Michelle Bachmann's Intelligence Committee? An annotated oxymoron?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> sorry, disregard the prev. picture, wrong one, this one shows Huck and Ingried. Enjoy.


Regarding the second picture, boy oh boy that Oil of Olay sure stopped working!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Or is it? Maybe this IS what Christianity is now.
> 
> It think it's very, very, VERY hard to find Christians that actually practice what they preach.
> 
> The ones that do, have LONG been over-run by these nasty types.


There are some who are true Christians. My across the street neighbor family, the finest and most compassionate people one could find. They practice a fundamentalist faith. The four adult children are good people. One daughter is a social worker and one is a founder of a local group working to rescue young people from the sex slavery trade. If the dad or son see my husband doing some sort of hard work in the yard, they are right here to help. We lend them tools. They clear our fallen trees for us and are welcome to the firewood. We have met many of their fellow congregants at graduation parties for the children and other festive occasions to which we have been invited. Hard to find a nicer group. Easy to see how they grew up that way, as both sets of parents/grandparents are absolute dears too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> When one's nose is as high in the air, not enough oxygen enters the bloodstream.


And they have to be careful not to drown in a rainstorm, too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is NO evidence for either global warming or evolution, they are both theories. Do you think continued printing of money will not backfire sometime? Do you think the National Debt will ever be paid back? But then maybe we won't have to worry as China is buying a little more of the US each day. Someday it will be theirs when they foreclose. The only thing that will save our country and the American Dream is for the free market to be FREE again.


I don't know which ostrich hole your head has been in to disclaim both evolution and global warming. Scientists much more credible than you have found proof for both. But of course, your mind is made up and you don't like to be confused with the facts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I don't know which ostrich hole your head has been in to disclaim both evolution and global warming. Scientists much more credible than you have found proof for both. But of course, your mind is made up and you don't like to be confused with the facts.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is NO evidence for either global warming or evolution, they are both theories. Do you think continued printing of money will not backfire sometime? Do you think the National Debt will ever be paid back? But then maybe we won't have to worry as China is buying a little more of the US each day. Someday it will be theirs when they foreclose. The only thing that will save our country and the American Dream is for the free market to be FREE again.


Well, Joey, let me see. Shall I take your word for it, or the word of a Nobel-Prize-winning professor of economics? I'll let you know after I've given it some thought.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I don't know which ostrich hole your head has been in to disclaim both evolution and global warming. Scientists much more credible than you have found proof for both. But of course, your mind is made up and you don't like to be confused with the facts.


Joey's proof of evolution would be if a cat turned into a cow. I don't know if it has to be right in front of her eyes or it's allowed to go through a generation. Probably the proof of global climate change would be when Wisconsin is under the ocean, and the average winter temperature is 140 degrees F.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Joey's proof of evolution would be if a cat turned into a cow. I don't know if it has to be right in front of her eyes or it's allowed to go through a generation. Probably the proof of global climate change would be when Wisconsin is under the ocean, and the average winter temperature is 140 degrees F.


And the Great Lakes were made by glaciers. So there is your proof of global warming. And guess what? There were no people there to cause it !!!! Who would have thunk that?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> And the Great Lakes were made by glaciers. So there is your proof of global warming. And guess what? There were no people there to cause it !!!! Who would have thunk that?


 :XD:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Faith-based people don't give a rat's ass for science.

Sing-a-long:

Give me that old time religion.
Give me that old time religion.
Give me that old time religion.
It's good enough for me.

Game night!

The person who can write a good second verse will win tonight's point.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> You're the one in white, right?
> :shock: :shock:


maysmom
ask CB she knows it all.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't believe this for a minute. Think. Forced sterilization? Are you mad? In this day and age? The Federal Government?


damemary
can you believe what some folks believe?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wouldn't it be as easy to keep them to herself? Wish I could think of something to bestow on her in return? Curses? Cow paddies? Rude gestures?


damemary
the middle one of five?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> And the Great Lakes were made by glaciers. So there is your proof of global warming. And guess what? There were no people there to cause it !!!! Who would have thunk that?


Of course there has been climate changes on Earth. Scientists believe the rate of climate change has accelerated due to humans. I would suspect that past major climate change did not affect too many people since there were not too many people. But think Today, if possible, and the repercussions climate change will have on all the animals we adore and all the people.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I was going to reply to the comment but Quote Reply function did not work. Any one else having a problem with that?
> 
> Very appropriate use of Biblical quote.


damemary
perhaps the devil at work. Keep trying to overcome her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The zealots are the ones who tell the rest of us we are doomed if we do not observe as they do. They do not recognize the validity of anyone else's different religious belief. It is their way or the highway. And yes, there are some among the Jewish people. Some of the extremely right wing Orthodox are as insular and zealous as one can find. They are a small minority who have no tolerance or acceptance for Jews who do not observe as they do.


MarylinKnits
met some of the Orthodox Jews, weird, very weird as I see it. Looks like every group has a "Specialty".


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarylinKnits
> met some of the Orthodox Jews, weird, very weird as I see it. Looks like every group has a "Specialty".


Actually some of the very Orthodox Jews are very wonderful and happy. Also they live the true Christian life. (Chabad)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There is NO evidence for either global warming or evolution, they are both theories. Do you think continued printing of money will not backfire sometime? Do you think the National Debt will ever be paid back? But then maybe we won't have to worry as China is buying a little more of the US each day. Someday it will be theirs when they foreclose. The only thing that will save our country and the American Dream is for the free market to be FREE again.


jeoysomma
never let science get in the way of idiocy. Are you making use of Medicine?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are some who are true Christians. My across the street neighbor family, the finest and most compassionate people one could find. They practice a fundamentalist faith. The four adult children are good people. One daughter is a social worker and one is a founder of a local group working to rescue young people from the sex slavery trade. If the dad or son see my husband doing some sort of hard work in the yard, they are right here to help. We lend them tools. They clear our fallen trees for us and are welcome to the firewood. We have met many of their fellow congregants at graduation parties for the children and other festive occasions to which we have been invited. Hard to find a nicer group. Easy to see how they grew up that way, as both sets of parents/grandparents are absolute dears too.


Marylin Knits
I have friends like that but they are so far removed from the "Christian" shouting Impersonators here.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually some of the very Orthodox Jews are very wonderful and happy. Also they live the true Christian life. (Chabad)


SQM
The ones I met live in a "designated" area and really hate the reformed Jews with a passion.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> The ones I met live in a "designated" area and really hate the reformed Jews with a passion.


Curious. How is the area designated?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Probably because the LOLLers are too lazy and just want to loll around.


 Does this make them Lollards? Or Dullards? Or Luddites?
Again, inquiring minds wanna know.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> The ones I met live in a "designated" area and really hate the reformed Jews with a passion.


Have you read about the Jewish cult who lived in Canada, now I think they're in Ecuador? They are very much like fundamentalist Christians, baby every year, homeschool the kids, dh is the authority. I think they left Canada because social services was getting too nosy for the cult leader's liking.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> The ones I met live in a "designated" area and really hate the reformed Jews with a passion.


Have you read about the Jewish cult who lived in Canada, now I think they're in Ecuador? They are very much like fundamentalist Christians, baby every year, homeschool the kids, dh is the authority. I think they left Canada because social services was getting too nosy for the cult leader's liking.

OOps, double post


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> can you believe what some folks believe?


Well, I'll be a monkey's aunt.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are some who are true Christians. My across the street neighbor family, the finest and most compassionate people one could find. They practice a fundamentalist faith. The four adult children are good people. One daughter is a social worker and one is a founder of a local group working to rescue young people from the sex slavery trade. If the dad or son see my husband doing some sort of hard work in the yard, they are right here to help. We lend them tools. They clear our fallen trees for us and are welcome to the firewood. We have met many of their fellow congregants at graduation parties for the children and other festive occasions to which we have been invited. Hard to find a nicer group. Easy to see how they grew up that way, as both sets of parents/grandparents are absolute dears too.


The fundies that I read about, i.e. the Duggars, would not allow their daughters to attend a college unless it is either a super fundy one or an online one. Hell, the daughters can't go to Walmart without a sibling for "accountability." They also don't allow the kids to associate with kids who aren't fundie either, and they don't invite "outsiders" to their festivities. It's such a rabbit hole. Your neighbors are what true Christianity is about.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, Joey, let me see. Shall I take your word for it, or the word of a Nobel-Prize-winning professor of economics? I'll let you know after I've given it some thought.


TIme was up looong ago, oh glowing sphere of luminescence. Oops, that's the moon, and it isn't even full yet. Carry on--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> The zealots are the ones who tell the rest of us we are doomed if we do not observe as they do. They do not recognize the validity of anyone else's different religious belief. It is their way or the highway. And yes, there are some among the Jewish people. Some of the extremely right wing Orthodox are as insular and zealous as one can find. They are a small minority who have no tolerance or acceptance for Jews who do not observe as they do.


Well, dang it, I guess I've met some zealous pagans, heathens, Wiccans, and Flying Spaghetti monsterites. And a few rabid Catholics.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Freedom to risk life and limb? Freedom to make suicide easy for family members? Freedom to provide a burgler with a gun when he forgets his?


Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dame. Guess I gotta go out of state to get my semiautomatic.

Till then, a nice weighty skillet will have to do. Hopefully the thief will forget his weapon. Naw, he won't want to steal my yarn.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Wouldn't it be as easy to keep them to herself? Wish I could think of something to bestow on her in return? Curses? Cow paddies? Rude gestures?


Curses often return to those bestowing them. The old Wiccan rule of three--what you send out, you get back thrice. That's why you have to practice up on your shielding skills.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Curious. How is the area designated?


SQM
It has been a primarily Jewish community for a long, long time and everyone knows that if their House comes up for sale it should be offered to the Orthodox Temple first and so far they bought every House for the asking Price and frequently Orhodox Jews from other parts of the Country are being moved in. It is a nice, quiet community and on Sabbath looks like another World to me.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually some of the very Orthodox Jews are very wonderful and happy. Also they live the true Christian life. (Chabad)


SQM
glad you said "some". Some can be quite unkind. Made friends move because life became difficult because they were reformed and looked upon as outcasts.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> shall bring out some when the cool weather sets in and show them. I do design and have made some weird things not to be worn in public, just for the heck of it. They become conversation pieces at knit meetings. Can't have boring knitting get-togethers.


now I want a doll, probably an American Girl type doll. They're 18", right? I want to make clothes for it. Some of you ladies are very bad influences...(LOL)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> now I want a doll, probably an American Girl type doll. They're 18", right? I want to make clothes for it. Some of you ladies are very bad influences...(LOL)


MaidInBedlam
The AG Dolls are too expensive but I found an 18" Doll like the AG one on Ebay. I think someone said that Target carries a similar one. It is fun making smaller things since they are finished so quickly. HOWEVER knitting for Barbie is tedious and her arms often refuse to get into the sleeves. Right now I am knitting a long, full skirt for Barbie doing shortrowing.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> For the record, Joey is WRONG AGAIN.
> 
> The religious sects that were against slavery were the LIBERAL sects such as The Mennonites and German Baptists and Methodists, who at the time _their beliefs resembled those of the English and Welsh Quakers_, who remain more liberal in their Christianity even today.
> 
> ...


TrueAthena
joey can't break the habit you know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron
I love your avatar. Where did you find that?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> Which habit is that? Lying or obtusity?


TrueAthena
spreading Lies and then twisting facts.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/#!/newsDetail/24982479
This link I can't stop thinking about. Google, Talia hawaii. She was tortured, beaten, forced to eat her feces. Her father and step mom did it each day. They each stomped her lttle body with their shoes on, leaving print marks. All the while duct taped to a bedpost. Her bones cracked. They left her in the house alone. She wasn't allowed to eat or drink. Her father fought for custody and won. Then he and step mom beat her sometimes for hours until it tired them out. The real mom was in SC and never knew. More info on the site.

Just typing their above atrocities on Talia made me cry. I can't get her out of my mind being duct taped and stomped on til her ribs cracked or dislocated her shoulders.

I know there are so many children enduring these horrors. Her story bothers me a lot.



joeysomma said:


> Rejecting Abortion: a 16-Year-Olds Selfless Act of Love
> 
> by Amy Ford | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 6/4/12 11:06 AM
> _
> ...


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"And Joey, is simply WRONG again."

I don't believe it.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the middle one of five?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I was going to reply to the comment but Quote Reply function did not work. Any one else having a problem with that?
> 
> Very appropriate use of Biblical quote.


Perhaps the 'quote reply' function button suddenly went wonky because :-

_"God moves in a mysterious ways; His wonders to perform"_;

I know that this particular phrase is not found anywhere in the Bible, although it is often misquoted as being a Bible verse but for me it is close enough.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> The AG Dolls are too expensive but I found an 18" Doll like the AG one on Ebay. I think someone said that Target carries a similar one. It is fumn making smaller things since they are finished so quickly. HOWEVER knitting for Barbie is tedious and her arms often refuse to get into the sleeves. Right now I am knitting a long, full skirt for Barbie doing shortrowing.


My grandmother, mother and several of my aunts were very good at making dolls' clothes and I made clothes for my dolls as well. Did you ever make dolls' beds out of Quaker oatmeal boxes? This was pretty popular when I was growing up in the 50s. You got a nice sort of cradle since the round box could be rocked.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I don't know which ostrich hole your head has been in to disclaim both evolution and global warming. Scientists much more credible than you have found proof for both. But of course, your mind is made up and you don't like to be confused with the facts.


I do not know if this is a good reply to Joey or not as it could be turned around and used against me.

And the people bowed and prayed 
To the neon god they made.
And the sign flashed out its warning,
In the words that it was forming.
And the signs said, 'The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls.
And whisper'd in the sounds of silence.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Does this make them Lollards? Or Dullards? Or Luddites?
> Again, inquiring minds wanna know.


None of the above, they are conservationists, they are conserving their energy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are so open-minded. I went with my usual snap decision.



Poor Purl said:


> Well, Joey, let me see. Shall I take your word for it, or the word of a Nobel-Prize-winning professor of economics? I'll let you know after I've given it some thought.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the starving polar bear who attacked campers instead of hunting on the ice that isn't there must be an anomaly.



Poor Purl said:


> Joey's proof of evolution would be if a cat turned into a cow. I don't know if it has to be right in front of her eyes or it's allowed to go through a generation. Probably the proof of global climate change would be when Wisconsin is under the ocean, and the average winter temperature is 140 degrees F.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Give me that old time ignorance.
Give me that old time ignorance. 
Give me that old time ignorance. 
It's good enough for me.



SQM said:


> Faith-based people don't give a rat's ass for science.
> 
> Sing-a-long:
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> can you believe what some folks believe?


I cannot believe the proud ignorance at all. I don't intend to try.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That is the rude gesture I envisioned.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the middle one of five?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It will be too late to save it all soon. I'm glad I'm old. Maybe I won't have to witness it.



SQM said:


> Of course there has been climate changes on Earth. Scientists believe the rate of climate change has accelerated due to humans. I would suspect that past major climate change did not affect too many people since there were not too many people. But think Today, if possible, and the repercussions climate change will have on all the animals we adore and all the people.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Broomstick and wand in hand.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> perhaps the devil at work. Keep trying to overcome her.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Recreationally perhaps?



Huckleberry said:


> jeoysomma
> never let science get in the way of idiocy. Are you making use of Medicine?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Does this make them Lollards? Or Dullards? Or Luddites?
> Again, inquiring minds wanna know.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we all will be monkeys if we hang around here too long.



maysmom said:


> Well, I'll be a monkey's aunt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Well, dang it, I guess I've met some zealous pagans, heathens, Wiccans, and Flying Spaghetti monsterites. And a few rabid Catholics.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dame. Guess I gotta go out of state to get my semiautomatic.
> 
> Till then, a nice weighty skillet will have to do. Hopefully the thief will forget his weapon. Naw, he won't want to steal my yarn.


Maybe it's a knitter. You must be prepared to defend yarn. Come to AZ. Lots of guns around here. They even shoot them into the air to celebrate and occasionally kill someone...but that's another story. Bring your cast iron skillet for protection.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Direct me oh coven master.



maysmom said:


> Curses often return to those bestowing them. The old Wiccan rule of three--what you send out, you get back thrice. That's why you have to practice up on your shielding skills.
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the clarification.



TrueAthena said:


> For the record, Joey is WRONG AGAIN.
> 
> The religious sects that were against slavery were the LIBERAL sects such as The Mennonites and German Baptists and Methodists, who at the time _their beliefs resembled those of the English and Welsh Quakers_, who remain more liberal in their Christianity even today.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bought one at Target for around $25, but they probably have sales. The doll clothes are quick and free patterns everywhere. You'll have fun.



MaidInBedlam said:


> now I want a doll, probably an American Girl type doll. They're 18", right? I want to make clothes for it. Some of you ladies are very bad influences...(LOL)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seems to me that the gremlins are loose.



TrueAthena said:


> I think I saw that too, but all though it was supposedly CB responding to you, there was some other username ... I think it began with "M", like Rita Moreno or something like that. Then all of a sudden the text disappeared and it just said "deleted" in the post.
> 
> But I don't see it anywhere now.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Arrrrgh! You makin me quazy.



joeysomma said:


> You have only listed a few, what about all of the others? That's like saying Obama's Rev Wright represents all Christians.
> 
> They sure were not Democrats! They wanted to keep slave labor.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Joey
> 
> There's tons of conclusive evidence for human caused climate change and absolutely proof of evolution.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think Paul Simon is a great songwriter. Thanks for the sound of silence.....not frequently heard around here.



EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is a good reply to Joey or not as it could be turned around and used against me.
> 
> And the people bowed and prayed
> To the neon god they made.
> ...


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> His chain mail and armor are outstanding. He has done beautiful work.


Thank you! He has done shows at the Worcester armory museum, and won awards within the Society for Creative Anachronism for his authenticity and the quality of his work. I wish he would put some more recent stuff on his web site. Three more recent works that I can think of instantly are the chain mail vest he made as his daughter's first Halloween costume, the childproofing he did on the balcony railing in their house, and the saddle et al. he made for the cat and his daughter, so she could ride the cat. There is a photo of this on Facebook.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> And the Great Lakes were made by glaciers. So there is your proof of global warming. And guess what? There were no people there to cause it !!!! Who would have thunk that?


Probably not in our life time if we are 80ish or older, but when the tidal low lands are under water will the people who don't accept science still say the glaciers are not melting, the sea is not rising? Like the comment in Bill Cosby's brilliant "Noah" - "How long can you tread water?"


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the middle one of five?


Raised to test the air currents?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually some of the very Orthodox Jews are very wonderful and happy. Also they live the true Christian life. (Chabad)


I was thinking more Satmar. Was told (this is third hand) by a local Conservative rabbi that the Chabad Lubavitch has an open door policy for anyone who is stranded in their area that they can't get home for Shabbos or Yom Tov to offer hospitality. A Satmar family had a car break down in our area and would not have gotten home to New Square from Brooklyn in time for Shabbos and found this very nice Lubavitch family which lives nearby and runs a Chabad shul and early child care center. Of course the Chabad rebbe and his wife opened their home to the Satmar couple and their children. At Shabbos supper, the C rabbi saw that the S husband was very uncomfortable. As a gracious host, he quietly asked what he could do to help. The S husband replied that he had never eaten a meal with a woman other than his mother, his wife, or his daughter at the table. The C wife immediately set up a card table and she and her older daughter ate there to accommodate their guest. Our Conservative rabbi friend was amazed that there were observances even more fundamental than those practiced by the Lubavitch.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Marylin Knits
> I have friends like that but they are so far removed from the "Christian" shouting Impersonators here.


I did get a loving and well meaning 3 page letter from the second daughter a couple of years ago imploring me to join her and be saved. She said she loved me too much to want me to be doomed at the time of the second coming. Whoa! It took me a few days to compose a respectful letter to her explaining my perspective and my devotion to my traditions and respect for my upbringing. Some time later she told me she now understood. We have maintained the same wonderful relationship and the subject has never again arisen.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Does this make them Lollards? Or Dullards? Or Luddites?
> Again, inquiring minds wanna know.


Just make sure they have their supply of lollipops or they get kvetchy.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> TIme was up looong ago, oh glowing sphere of luminescence. Oops, that's the moon, and it isn't even full yet. Carry on--


Sure it is not a flying saucer filled with green cheese? Is that moldy or pistachio?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, dang it, I guess I've met some zealous pagans, heathens, Wiccans, and Flying Spaghetti monsterites. And a few rabid Catholics.


Considering what some of these people are like, Hell sounds like a picnic in the park compared to what their heaven would be.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Faith-based people don't give a rat's ass for science.
> 
> Sing-a-long:
> 
> ...


It already has a second verse, and probably a 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Something like

It was good for my pappy,
It was good for my pappy,
It was good for my pappy,
And it's good enough for me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> can you believe what some folks believe?


Especially when they provide a link that give the actual story but don't bother to read it. Honestly, Huck.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Of course there has been climate changes on Earth. Scientists believe the rate of climate change has accelerated due to humans. I would suspect that past major climate change did not affect too many people since there were not too many people. But think Today, if possible, and the repercussions climate change will have on all the animals we adore and all the people.


Shhh. Don't make them think. Their brains will get all charley-horsed from disuse.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarylinKnits
> met some of the Orthodox Jews, weird, very weird as I see it. Looks like every group has a "Specialty".


They pretty much do have "specialties." And some are weirder than others because they brought their customs over from parts of eastern Europe that were a century or two behind the rest of the world.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually some of the very Orthodox Jews are very wonderful and happy. Also they live the true Christian life. (Chabad)


Of course they live the true Christian life. They believe their last rabbi (who died 20 or 25 years ago) was the Messiah.

The rest of the Orthodox community has essentially ostracized them. And the appearance they give of being wonderful and happy comes from a handbook each gets when they leave to move to a new place and try to make converts.

They're great to have around in places where you otherwise can't get kosher food, or in prison. But, boy, do they get annoying when they decide they want you to come in and pray with them. (Not you, literally, because you're a woman.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Curious. How is the area designated?


It's an Italian word, 6 letters, beginning with "gh" and ending in "o."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Does this make them Lollards? Or Dullards? Or Luddites?
> Again, inquiring minds wanna know.


Pilchards, I think.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Have you read about the Jewish cult who lived in Canada, now I think they're in Ecuador? They are very much like fundamentalist Christians, baby every year, homeschool the kids, dh is the authority. I think they left Canada because social services was getting too nosy for the cult leader's liking.


I've never heard of these. It's odd that such a cult would arise somewhere like Canada. I'd love more information on this.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> TIme was up looong ago, oh glowing sphere of luminescence. Oops, that's the moon, and it isn't even full yet. Carry on--


You were right about the moon, my gesture to Joey.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Thanks for clearing that up for me, Dame. Guess I gotta go out of state to get my semiautomatic.
> 
> Till then, a nice weighty skillet will have to do. Hopefully the thief will forget his weapon. Naw, he won't want to steal my yarn.


If it's a he, that is. If it's a she, I hope your yarn is locked in a safe.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> glad you said "some". Some can be quite unkind. Made friends move because life became difficult because they were reformed and looked upon as outcasts.


There's one group not far away in upstate NY that burned down one member's house because he wanted to go to a different synagogue. They felt it was disrespectful to the rabbi.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Isaiah 55: 10-11 (NKJV)
> 
> 10
> _For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
> ...


Mrs. Somma,
Does your religion allow you to read any secular books? If so, what type of alternative reading do you like?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Give me that old time ignorance.
> Give me that old time ignorance.
> Give me that old time ignorance.
> It's good enough for me.


You won last night's point. Sorry for the delay. I was reading and netflixing yesterday evening. Knew you would rise to the occasion.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I was thinking more Satmar. Was told (this is third hand) by a local Conservative rabbi that the Chabad Lubavitch has an open door policy for anyone who is stranded in their area that they can't get home for Shabbos or Yom Tov to offer hospitality. A Satmar family had a car break down in our area and would not have gotten home to New Square from Brooklyn in time for Shabbos and found this very nice Lubavitch family which lives nearby and runs a Chabad shul and early child care center. Of course the Chabad rebbe and his wife opened their home to the Satmar couple and their children. At Shabbos supper, the C rabbi saw that the S husband was very uncomfortable. As a gracious host, he quietly asked what he could do to help. The S husband replied that he had never eaten a meal with a woman other than his mother, his wife, or his daughter at the table. The C wife immediately set up a card table and she and her older daughter ate there to accommodate their guest. Our Conservative rabbi friend was amazed that there were observances even more fundamental than those practiced by the Lubavitch.


The Lubuvitchers are by far the most progressive of the non-progressives. the Satmars are more fun because they will literally fight on the street over who is to lead them. The community is split between two bros now. Huge sibling rivalry but I find the image of these guys duking it out in Brooklyn funny.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It already has a second verse, and probably a 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Something like
> 
> It was good for my pappy,
> It was good for my pappy,
> ...


Leave it to our Precious Encyclopedia to come up with that. Additional point awarded to PP.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

It was more like Moron.


TrueAthena said:


> I think I saw that too, but all though it was supposedly CB responding to you, there was some other username ... I think it began with "M", like Rita Moreno or something like that. Then all of a sudden the text disappeared and it just said "deleted" in the post.
> 
> But I don't see it anywhere now.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing. I'd always thought these things were way back in history.I also thought that people helped each other more. I thought that there was a morality among people, that they wouldn't sit back and watch suffering or beat little old ladies on the street. Or steal, not out of need, but greed. I'd thought that people wouldn't kill for no reason. I'd thought that people loved their countries, towns and neighbors.  I've always read stories of people sacrificing to help others. So many heroic stories! I guess they were the exception, not the rule.
> 
> I grew up in the Midwest, in the 60's. I've watched society disintegrate. I'm sad that my kids and grandkids have a different world. When I was a kid, children were safe. We played outside all day and went everywhere. We used our imaginations and created everything in our minds. Now we have to watch them even in our own yards, which are barely big enough to run and play. They can't explore and imagine because they're locked away in their homes. Was it always dangerous for kids, and I just didn't know it? Were people always selfish to the point where they'd just take whatever they wanted? That isn't the life I lived! People helped each other. People looked out for each other. People always defended women and children. In my world, evil was the exception to the rule. I'm lucky to have been born where and when I was.


-----------------
Neb - you are certainly correct about a lot of what was happening then too. It was like now, very quiet, nice life for those who had good jobs and family support. But difficult for those who weren't in the same situation.

The first part of my life was not like that. I personally was not in a lot of those situations, but people dear to me were. We did play outside all day, we had wonderful picnics and picked berries for canning - wonderful memories.

Once I got to be in in high school, our life was very much as you have thought. I just hear so much about the 'good old days' and they were, but they were also the opposite for a goodly portion of the people. I don't remember people beating little old ladies, I don't remember drug problems, most people even those who had nothing were decent, hard working people. Children were taught respect , families were close -- they depended on each other. All that is true for the majority - but not necessarily for the minority.

There were very kind people and I know that there were different groups who did try to help. I was talking about my own experiences. There was little help for those who desperately needed it then.

The point I am trying to make - is that 
people had to depend on other people , there was very little help except for the 'Homes for children (orphanages) which were dreadful - I don't mean like in the dark ages, I mean few toys, uninteresting food. Children sleeping 6 to a room, no privacy, very strict rules, no love and attention and as has been learned, a fair amount of abuse, both physical and sexual. Most of the people running them were great, some weren't.

They were needed as not many people were strong enough or able to do what my Grandmother did when she became a widow. Lots of people helped each other - I didn't mean to imply that they didn't. They shared what they had - I don't think Nana would have survived if they hadn't. Their Church helped them I am sure she was the best Christian I ever have met and I think her Faith helped her with all she had to deal with.

I know that there was little or no help for those whose children were 
'*********' (the word horrifies me) - there were places where 'those children were put once the family couldn't look after them any more or in some cases when the caregivers (parents) died. There was no oversight - 
They were hidden away.
Now adays there are programs to help (paid by the Government to give them opportunities to become as self sufficient as possible}. Even people are aware now. Then they were practically hidden. There was no special schooling or help for the parents.

People did help each other- there is no black and white. There are a lot of Greys. Until my Grandfather died their family lived a nice life - he did quite well. But there were no pensions then so when he died she was left without any income.

- People did help each other - people were kind - People did love their country-

I wonder why you said that - I know that those on the other thread accuse liberal minded people of not loving their country - which I think you are now realizing that that is not the truth. During the war we sent thousands of our men overseas to fight. I think there was a pension for our family but i know that many of the wives and children had a really tough time.

I am not for a moment saying things are not dreadful now -- but I am saying that we have to be able to see the whole picture, not look at the past as if it was perfect and that everything was wonderful. It wasn't.

We are sooo lucky we didn't and don't have the love for guns,or the history of slavery. You ask for the differences between Canada and the States- both of these are HUGE.

We 
have had an excellent health care system which at the moment is stressed to the limit - we are in a recession too. * We blame the recession, not one man*. How can one man be responsible in the States for a recession that has been building for years and that is felt around the world??

Things aren't perfect here but we have some things that to me are far superior to what you have down there.

I have seen pictures of the parts of your cities where people were living in abject poverty in those years- with crime and stealing and murder, with the Mafia - those happened when you were alive. I don't know your age. I just think that you have to look at the whole picture. rural life was better as long as they had good crops, but life was difficult. There were droughts and tornadoes and all the bad things that happen now but there was very little if any aid from any where.

So many things make us who we are. I believe in our health care system which is Government paid. (I won't go into what it has meant to Pat and I - we would be desitute or he would be dead without it).

Anyway, Many of the things you say are true - things are bad now. But going back and picturing a perfect world doesn't show the true picture and won't solve anything unless you look at the real truth.

Everything is blamed on the Democrats (most on your President) it just isn't a fact.

It has been building for years, there - senseless and unnecessary wars, (all wars are). So many things. It is fine to worry about those things but nothing is going to be solved until the whole picture is looked at honestly which is certainly not happening now.

I won't even get into Womens' choice which has become the rallying call for those on the right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Which habit is that? Lying or obtusity?


Being wrong (again).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps the 'quote reply' function button suddenly went wonky because :-
> 
> _"God moves in a mysterious ways; His wonders to perform"_;
> 
> I know that this particular phrase is not found anywhere in the Bible, although it is often misquoted as being a Bible verse but for me it is close enough.


Explains everything.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was a good one indeed.



Poor Purl said:


> Especially when they provide a link that give the actual story but don't bother to read it. Honestly, Huck.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's an Italian word, 6 letters, beginning with "gh" and ending in "o."


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma,
> Does your religion allow you to read any secular books? If so, what type of alternative reading do you like?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is a good reply to Joey or not as it could be turned around and used against me.
> 
> And the people bowed and prayed
> To the neon god they made.
> ...


Probably not. St. Peter was originally named Simon, but I don't think there was an apostle named Garfunkel.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There should have been. What an addition to any choir.



Poor Purl said:


> Probably not. St. Peter was originally named Simon, but I don't think there was an apostle named Garfunkel.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Arrrrgh! You makin me quazy.


Doeth it even make thenthe?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Probably not in our life time if we are 80ish or older, but when the tidal low lands are under water will the people who don't accept science still say the glaciers are not melting, the sea is not rising? Like the comment in Bill Cosby's brilliant "Noah" - "How long can you tread water?"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Considering what some of these people are like, Hell sounds like a picnic in the park compared to what their heaven would be.


I know a joke about that, but it may bore people bc it's long.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My grandmother, mother and several of my aunts were very good at making dolls' clothes and I made clothes for my dolls as well. Did you ever make dolls' beds out of Quaker oatmeal boxes? This was pretty popular when I was growing up in the 50s. You got a nice sort of cradle since the round box could be rocked.


MaiInBedlam
not familiar with those boxes. Sounds great. I have made Cradles from scratch.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma,
> Does your religion allow you to read any secular books? If so, what type of alternative reading do you like?


She still has her science books from high school. Maybe the Left Behind series?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is a good reply to Joey or not as it could be turned around and used against me.
> 
> And the people bowed and prayed
> To the neon god they made.
> ...


EveMCooke
Thank you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The Lubuvitchers are by far the most progressive of the non-progressives. the Satmars are more fun because they will literally fight on the street over who is to lead them. The community is split between two bros now. Huge sibling rivalry but I find the image of these guys duking it out in Brooklyn funny.


They do more than duke it out. I was once in the hospital next door to a young chasid who had two broken legs. He had been run over by a Satmar because of an argument about renting a store.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Leave it to our Precious Encyclopedia to come up with that. Additional point awarded to PP.


I would like to donate my point to the Hedy Lamarr Home for Bright and Beautiful Women.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Broomstick and wand in hand.


damemary
what a nice portrait that makes.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> There should have been. What an addition to any choir.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I was thinking more Satmar. Was told (this is third hand) by a local Conservative rabbi that the Chabad Lubavitch has an open door policy for anyone who is stranded in their area that they can't get home for Shabbos or Yom Tov to offer hospitality. A Satmar family had a car break down in our area and would not have gotten home to New Square from Brooklyn in time for Shabbos and found this very nice Lubavitch family which lives nearby and runs a Chabad shul and early child care center. Of course the Chabad rebbe and his wife opened their home to the Satmar couple and their children. At Shabbos supper, the C rabbi saw that the S husband was very uncomfortable. As a gracious host, he quietly asked what he could do to help. The S husband replied that he had never eaten a meal with a woman other than his mother, his wife, or his daughter at the table. The C wife immediately set up a card table and she and her older daughter ate there to accommodate their guest. Our Conservative rabbi friend was amazed that there were observances even more fundamental than those practiced by the Lubavitch.


MarylinKnits
now that shows respect which the Zealots here have yet to learn. They always try their hardest to get into other people's space. Trespassing is a daily activity of theirs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MaiInBedlam
> not familiar with those boxes. Sounds great. I have made Cradles from scratch.


The large ones will hold two rolls of toilet paper. Ask me how I know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It already has a second verse, and probably a 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Something like
> 
> It was good for my pappy,
> It was good for my pappy,
> ...


Poor Purl
you get my vote for 2nd Verse and damemary 1st Prize.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They pretty much do have "specialties." And some are weirder than others because they brought their customs over from parts of eastern Europe that were a century or two behind the rest of the world.


Poor Purl
you describe those I encounter.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma,
> Does your religion allow you to read any secular books? If so, what type of alternative reading do you like?


SQM
I suggest she starts with: "While Reagan slept" by Art Buchwald. If that is too deep, she may read Dr. Dolittle.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's an Italian word, 6 letters, beginning with "gh" and ending in "o."


Poor Purl
exactly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They do more than duke it out. I was once in the hospital next door to a young chasid who had two broken legs. He had been run over by a Satmar because of an argument about renting a store.


Poor Purl
and we expect them to get along with "others? No chance.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I suggest she starts with: "While Reagan slept" by Art Buchwald. If that is too deep, she may read Dr. Dolittle.


I love Art Buchwald. He was a very very funny man, and very brave when he was dying.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> and we expect them to get along with "others? No chance.


They'd be afraid to mess around with "others."


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The large ones will hold two rolls of toilet paper. Ask me how I know.


Poor Purl
For goodness sake, I always have one of those in the Pantry. Love to eat them dry with dried cherries and raisins. See what I can do with an empty one. Shall report.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I love Art Buchwald. He was a very very funny man, and very brave when he was dying.


Poor Purl
he loved his wife and Paris. That did it for me. Is anyone like him around now?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> he loved his wife and Paris. That did it for me. Is anyone like him around now?


I don't know. There are bright and funny people, but each is different, as Buchwald was. Molly Ivins was, too. Andy Borowitz doesn't quite measure up.

Buchwald wasn't snarky, the way so many are today.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They do more than duke it out. I was once in the hospital next door to a young chasid who had two broken legs. He had been run over by a Satmar because of an argument about renting a store.


The Satmars have issues but so would you if you had to wear their get-ups everyday. But still, The Fighting Pious Ones - how jolly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The Satmars have issues but so would you if you had to wear their get-ups everyday. But still, The Fighting Pious Ones - how jolly.


The women wear both wigs and hats. However, Satmar is one of the rare sects who insist that every child (or maybe only the boys) learn a trade to support their family. In too may others, the husband stays home studying Torah while the wife (who usually has at least 6 children) works outside. I know one woman who's a hospital administrator; her older kids take care of the younger ones, and dh sits in study all day.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The women wear both wigs and hats. However, Satmar is one of the rare sects who insist that every child (or maybe only the boys) learn a trade to support their family. In too may others, the husband stays home studying Torah while the wife (who usually has at least 6 children) works outside. I know one woman who's a hospital administrator; her older kids take care of the younger ones, and dh sits in study all day.


Poor Purl
we call those guys Pimps.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we call those guys Pimps.


Thank you, Huck. I never thought of it like that.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The women wear both wigs and hats. However, Satmar is one of the rare sects who insist that every child (or maybe only the boys) learn a trade to support their family. In too may others, the husband stays home studying Torah while the wife (who usually has at least 6 children) works outside. I know one woman who's a hospital administrator; her older kids take care of the younger ones, and dh sits in study all day.


From what I have been told, when the girl is being matched for a husband, she is asked if she wants one who works or one who studies. So if she picks 'studies", then she made her own bed among everything else she must do.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> From what I have been told, when the girl is being matched for a husband, she is asked if she wants one who works or one who studies. So if she picks 'studies", then she made her own bed among everything else she must do.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> From what I have been told, when the girl is being matched for a husband, she is asked if she wants one who works or one who studies. So if she picks 'studies", then she made her own bed among everything else she must do.


SQM
how young are they when they have to make those long term decisions? By the time they get married they already raised children and should be tired of it. I bet no women have leading positions in that sect. Time for a turn around and let women rule the roost in this and other Religions.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> His work is impressive. I love medieval art, and there's so much there. That bustier is gorgeous, but there seems to be a dragon's head on page 1 that needs to be shown in full. Thank you for this peek into his creativity.
> 
> And his wedding announcement was wonderful, too.


Thank you very much. His mom once told me that she thinks he was born in the wrong century. The living room of his & my DD's house, until the baby came, was set up to look early sixteenth century, but now it has the standard twenty-first century baby/toddler paraphernalia. Or is a walker with Sesame Street characters bobbling on it a sixteenth century appliance? I am really prejudiced about that wedding announcement - I have looked at it admiringly many times.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> how young are they when they have to make those long term decisions? By the time they get married they already raised children and should be tired of it. I bet no women have leading positions in that sect. Time for a turn around and let women rule the roost in this and other Religions.


Late teens, early to middle 20s. I believe that people should be allowed to live how they want. The Ultra Orthodox are happy with how they live. So who are we to try to change them?

Remember that they are only one small part of Judaism. Besides the Orthodox, Jewish women are rabbis and can be quite influential in their religion.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> You find them everywhere. I don't think either of you fit into that category. You are both people I am happy to call friends and I wish we lived closer so we could have a get together with the others.


Sounds good to me, too.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> For the record, Joey is WRONG AGAIN.
> 
> The religious sects that were against slavery were the LIBERAL sects such as The Mennonites and German Baptists and Methodists, who at the time _their beliefs resembled those of the English and Welsh Quakers_, who remain more liberal in their Christianity even today.
> 
> ...


Athena, you are quite correct.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The large ones will hold two rolls of toilet paper. Ask me how I know.


And I'd bet that you covered the boxes with tastefully-printed wrapping paper or such.

Once more I bow to your creativity!! I'd have just tossed the TP in the BR or outside the BR door in the plastic they came in. Hey, at least the TP was there!!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> For goodness sake, I always have one of those in the Pantry. Love to eat them dry with dried cherries and raisins. See what I can do with an empty one. Shall report.


Huck I read your post so fast that I first thought you ate dry shredded TP with the fruit. Oy vey.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She still has her science books from high school. Maybe the Left Behind series?


Religious fundamentalists and science are mutually exclusive.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Camacho said:


> Thank you very much. His mom once told me that she thinks he was born in the wrong century. The living room of his & my DD's house, until the baby came, was set up to look early sixteenth century, but now it has the standard twenty-first century baby/toddler paraphernalia. Or is a walker with Sesame Street characters bobbling on it a sixteenth century appliance? I am really prejudiced about that wedding announcement - I have looked at it admiringly many times.


Camacho
Sending my admiration their way.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course they live the true Christian life. They believe their last rabbi (who died 20 or 25 years ago) was the Messiah.
> 
> The rest of the Orthodox community has essentially ostracized them. And the appearance they give of being wonderful and happy comes from a handbook each gets when they leave to move to a new place and try to make converts.
> 
> They're great to have around in places where you otherwise can't get kosher food, or in prison. But, boy, do they get annoying when they decide they want you to come in and pray with them. (Not you, literally, because you're a woman.)


Was that Rabbi Schneerson? i read about him and how he handed out money--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Pilchards, I think.


Pilchards, a cheap and unsatisfactory substitution for tuna fish.
Bazinga!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Huck I read your post so fast that I first thought you ate dry shredded TP with the fruit. Oy vey.


maysmom
if nothing else would be available I would do that too. May be healthier than some of the stuff we pay for dearly. We love Ice Cream and from now on it will be Ben and Jerry's- only natural ingredients - and to compensate for the increased price we just eat a little less. Healthier all around.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've never heard of these. It's odd that such a cult would arise somewhere like Canada. I'd love more information on this.


They went to Canada from the US because their practices were being questioned by Child Protective Services. Beating, starving kids, that sort of thing under the definition of discipline.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If it's a he, that is. If it's a she, I hope your yarn is locked in a safe.


To be honest, Oysterchild, I don't know too many femmes who'd lust after my yarn. Dh yes, yarn, no. (Dh does laundry, dishes, and changed diapers.)


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma,
> Does your religion allow you to read any secular books? If so, what type of alternative reading do you like?


I read the blog of a fundy homeschool family who doesn't allow their children to read fiction, not even Laura Ingalls Wilder. When they got sheet music for "Row, row, row your boat," they even whited out some of the lyrics. I kid you not.

:hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think Paul Simon is a great songwriter. Thanks for the sound of silence.....not frequently heard around here.


Only if you read aloud, Dame, lol. I like to play Queen or Cheap Trick while surfing the Web, but that's a whole nuther kettle of fish.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Raised to test the air currents?


Make sure you wet that finger first. How you do so is up to you--

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just make sure they have their supply of lollipops or they get kvetchy.


Where can I get some of those lollipops with meds in 'em? Heard they're wondrous.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sure it is not a flying saucer filled with green cheese? Is that moldy or pistachio?


I really don't knowingly eat moldy cheese. Isn't it blue??


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Considering what some of these people are like, Hell sounds like a picnic in the park compared to what their heaven would be.


A damn fun picnic with beer, brats, loud guitars, and (gasp) bree birth control. Lots of company!!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Shhh. Don't make them think. Their brains will get all charley-horsed from disuse.


They might not even turn over. Is there a AAA for ignorance?

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Broomstick and wand in hand.


The proper term for "broomstick" is actually "besom." If you'd rather use a knife than a wand, that is called an "athame" 
(ATH uh MAY) But in certain company, a dull wand is probably safer to wave about--

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe it's a knitter. You must be prepared to defend yarn. Come to AZ. Lots of guns around here. They even shoot them into the air to celebrate and occasionally kill someone...but that's another story. Bring your cast iron skillet for protection.


Dang, I'll find out if it's bulletproof then!! (Nah, AZ's too hot for me. Nice thing about NE, wait 5 min and the weather changes.)


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Direct me oh coven master.


Oh you flatter me. That would be the high priestess, which I ain't.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> The AG Dolls are too expensive but I found an 18" Doll like the AG one on Ebay. I think someone said that Target carries a similar one. It is fun making smaller things since they are finished so quickly. HOWEVER knitting for Barbie is tedious and her arms often refuse to get into the sleeves. Right now I am knitting a long, full skirt for Barbie doing shortrowing.


I've been saving patterns for sewing clothes for burial garments. Sounds morbid, but when I heard that some parents have to bury their babies in pillowcases, my heart broke. I've sewn some burial pockets for very small fetuses and diapers for burials. My niece was born at UCONN Farmington Health center andso many of the babies born there don't make it. We got Cabbage Patch clothes for my niece.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

maysmom said:


> The proper term for "broomstick" is actually "besom." If you'd rather use a knife than a wand, that is called an "athame"
> (ATH uh MAY) But in certain company, a dull wand is probably safer to wave about--
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


are you practicing your Yiddish again?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> are you practicing your Yiddish again?


...trying to think up an appropriate Yiddishism and failing miserably.....


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Excellent thought, Huck. Cherry Garcia is good. DD used to steal my Deep Dark Chocolate and was miffed when they discontinued the flavor. Tropical guy that he is, dh likes Haagen Daz Pineapple Coconut. Magnum Gold ice cream bars are good.

Dang it, now I'll have to chomp on something healthy! (TP would be plenty of fiber. Do you remember the bread from the 70's called "Hollywood?" Promoted as extra fiber, it actually had sawdust incorporated into the batter.)

Anyhow, have a great day!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I read the blog of a fundy homeschool family who doesn't allow their children to read fiction, not even Laura Ingalls Wilder. When they got sheet music for "Row, row, row your boat," they even whited out some of the lyrics. I kid you not.
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


maysmom
often when those kids fly the coop, they go wild . Can't blame them.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> often when those kids fly the coop, they go wild . Can't blame them.


I would hold a party for every kid who escaped. There were 3 kids at first in that family, dad got snipped because mom had severe PPD. When the youngest was 8, I believe, the Lord told him that he had sinned and the dad got the vasectomy reversed. Mom popped out 5 more children, still had PPD, but hell, she had the oldest girl to rely on. 6 youngest kids, from 32 to 17, still live at home, boys share 1 bedroom, girls another. Oldest boy at home owns his own home but "chooses" to live at home for "accountability." It's quite a lifestyle.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Excellent thought, Huck. Cherry Garcia is good. DD used to steal my Deep Dark Chocolate and was miffed when they discontinued the flavor. Tropical guy that he is, dh likes Haagen Daz Pineapple Coconut. Magnum Gold ice cream bars are good.
> 
> Dang it, now I'll have to chomp on something healthy! (TP would be plenty of fiber. Do you remember the bread from the 70's called "Hollywood?" Promoted as extra fiber, it actually had sawdust incorporated into the batter.)
> 
> Anyhow, have a great day!


maysmom
not familiar with "Hollywood" bread but used to fly to another City regularly to pick up San Francisco our Dough Bread at the Airport. Seems crazy now.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I would hold a party for every kid who escaped. There were 3 kids at first in that family, dad got snipped because mom had severe PPD. When the youngest was 8, I believe, the Lord told him that he had sinned and the dad got the vasectomy reversed. Mom popped out 5 more children, still had PPD, but hell, she had the oldest girl to rely on. 6 youngest kids, from 32 to 17, still live at home, boys share 1 bedroom, girls another. Oldest boy at home owns his own home but "chooses" to live at home for "accountability." It's quite a lifestyle.


maysmom
I would be delighted to contribute to a major celebration.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> I would be delighted to contribute to a major celebration.


Just think! At least 6 to plan!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Was that Rabbi Schneerson? i read about him and how he handed out money--


Yes, it was. When he was far along in his dotage, he started believing the followers who called him the Messiah. (Before that he would tell them "Oh, get out of here," or "Stop, you're embarrassing me," things like that.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> They went to Canada from the US because their practices were being questioned by Child Protective Services. Beating, starving kids, that sort of thing under the definition of discipline.


Oh, the usual stuff.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> And I'd bet that you covered the boxes with tastefully-printed wrapping paper or such.
> 
> Once more I bow to your creativity!! I'd have just tossed the TP in the BR or outside the BR door in the plastic they came in. Hey, at least the TP was there!!


We had some leftover bathroom wallpaper, and every once in a while I'd think "I ought to paper those boxes." But I never did; just left the smiling Quaker watching everyone. Then we started buying Irish oatmeal in metal canisters, and now the TP is naked.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I use them for storage. Love oatmeal and love the containers, especially the big ones.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> For goodness sake, I always have one of those in the Pantry. Love to eat them dry with dried cherries and raisins. See what I can do with an empty one. Shall report.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> We had some leftover bathroom wallpaper, and every once in a while I'd think "I ought to paper those boxes." But I never did; just left the smiling Quaker watching everyone. Then we started buying Irish oatmeal in metal canisters, and now the TP is naked.


You know, an oatmeal box might be a good place to hide valuables. Who'd steal your oatmeal? (Who'd EAT it?)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I read the blog of a fundy homeschool family who doesn't allow their children to read fiction, not even Laura Ingalls Wilder. When they got sheet music for "Row, row, row your boat," they even whited out some of the lyrics. I kid you not.
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


They must have hated the "merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily" part.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we call those guys Pimps.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Maybe we should tell his wife.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Can't anyone inform them of the trick question before hand?



SQM said:


> From what I have been told, when the girl is being matched for a husband, she is asked if she wants one who works or one who studies. So if she picks 'studies", then she made her own bed among everything else she must do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Governments too. Most strife immediately quashed. Ta da.



Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> how young are they when they have to make those long term decisions? By the time they get married they already raised children and should be tired of it. I bet no women have leading positions in that sect. Time for a turn around and let women rule the roost in this and other Religions.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the education.



maysmom said:


> The proper term for "broomstick" is actually "besom." If you'd rather use a knife than a wand, that is called an "athame"
> (ATH uh MAY) But in certain company, a dull wand is probably safer to wave about--
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But there's never any sunshine.



maysmom said:


> Dang, I'll find out if it's bulletproof then!! (Nah, AZ's too hot for me. Nice thing about NE, wait 5 min and the weather changes.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Again I bow to your supreme knowledge.



maysmom said:
 

> Oh you flatter me. That would be the high priestess, which I ain't.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love your jokes, short or long.



Poor Purl said:


> I know a joke about that, but it may bore people bc it's long.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Maybe we should tell his wife.


damemary
need to feed it to her gently.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They must have hated the "merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily" part.


They weren't too crazy about "Life is but a dream" either. All they ever think about is "Where will you go when you die?" I kid you not, even made that the main part of the sermon at their son's wedding. Where the son had never kissed the girl, probably never held hands until the wedding.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> But there's never any sunshine.


Oh, I've been lobster red often (but not recently.) The ocean can get pretty comfortably warm in September.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> The Lubuvitchers are by far the most progressive of the non-progressives. the Satmars are more fun because they will literally fight on the street over who is to lead them. The community is split between two bros now. Huge sibling rivalry but I find the image of these guys duking it out in Brooklyn funny.


What will they do? Pull each other's peyos?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl
you may have an exclusive container for the necessary Paper but I have the unique Paper. Yes, I did (embroider it). Make all rooms inviting.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> They weren't too crazy about "Life is but a dream" either. All they ever think about is "Where will you go when you die?" I kid you not, even made that the main part of the sermon at their son's wedding. Where the son had never kissed the girl, probably never held hands until the wedding.


maysmom
well what could possibly go wrong in such a union.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you may have an exclusive container for the necessary Paper but I have the unique Paper. Yes, I did (embroider it). Make all rooms inviting.


Hope you used soft thread!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> well what could possibly go wrong in such a union.


I could go on all night long! (No, that's not what he said!)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Enjoy!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Hope you used soft thread!!
> 
> maymom
> not so much, want to tickle some fan-c-ies.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Enjoy!


Saw this, loved it. What would Jesus do, indeed . . . .


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom said:
> 
> 
> > Hope you used soft thread!!
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> For goodness sake, I always have one of those in the Pantry. Love to eat them dry with dried cherries and raisins. See what I can do with an empty one. Shall report.


Poke a hole in the lid and put your yarn in the box; feed the yarn through the hole. Hope your cat doesn't figure it out.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I really don't knowingly eat moldy cheese. Isn't it blue??


If you appreciate strong flavors, the blue cheese made in Nauvoo IL is quite tasty. We had a chance to visit the facility and see the cheese curing in the caves a number of years ago. Brought a wedge home to Dad who loved it.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> From what I have been told, when the girl is being matched for a husband, she is asked if she wants one who works or one who studies. So if she picks 'studies", then she made her own bed among everything else she must do.


Have you read "Unorthodox" by Deborah Feldman? It is about a Satmar woman who left. It was very interesting reading. Her second book, "Exodus" is out, but I haven't read it yet.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If you appreciate strong flavors, the blue cheese made in Nauvoo IL is quite tasty. We had a chance to visit the facility and see the cheese curing in the caves a number of years ago. Brought a wedge home to Dad who loved it.


A local farmer's marker has a vendor from Brooklyn, CT who makes cheese. I try a different type each week and they've all been delicious. Even the dog wants it, little stinker.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> For goodness sake, I always have one of those in the Pantry. Love to eat them dry with dried cherries and raisins. See what I can do with an empty one. Shall report.


Set the top aside. Cut about one third of the box out, a longish rectangle, not quite all the way to the bottom. Put the top back on. You have one empty cradle ready to turn into a spiffy doll's bed. This was probably in some popular women's magazine in the early 50s or maybe even on the Quaker oats boxes themselves. Great little do it yourself project. Does anyone here remember when Mr. Potato Head was really made with a potato?

This stuff probably belongs on NB, but we could consider that these are remarks about a world which was supposedly better than this one because children were encouraged to use their imaginations instead of Mommy and Daddy's pocketbooks.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maysmom said:


> And I'd bet that you covered the boxes with tastefully-printed wrapping paper or such.
> 
> Once more I bow to your creativity!! I'd have just tossed the TP in the BR or outside the BR door in the plastic they came in. Hey, at least the TP was there!!


Nope. You just used the box as it came. This seems to indicate the idea was probably came from the Quaker Oats folks. Keeping the box as it was would have been free advertising.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Set the top aside. Cut about one third of the box out, a longish rectangle, not quite all the way to the bottom. Put the top back on. You have one empty cradle ready to turn into a spiffy doll's bed. This was probably in some popular women's magazine in the early 50s or maybe even on the Quaker oats boxes themselves. Great little do it yourself project. Does anyone here remember when Mr. Potato Head was really made with a potato?
> 
> This stuff probably belongs on NB, but we could consider that these are remarks about a world which was supposedly better than this one because children were encouraged to use their imaginations instead of Mommy and Daddy's pocketbooks.


MaidInBedlam
Well, who made this World, grown-ups (?) it has not been the children. So, the blame lays with us, the Elder.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Have you read "Unorthodox" by Deborah Feldman? It is about a Satmar woman who left. It was very interesting reading. Her second book, "Exodus" is out, but I haven't read it yet.


Yeah I read her book. She came to my neighborhood for a book signing and her son was at the school where I worked. I guess leaving a special community also makes for a compelling read.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Nope. You just used the box as it came. This seems to indicate the idea was probably came from the Quaker Oats folks. Keeping the box as it was would have been free advertising.


Yup, I can see how anyone taking TP from an empty Quaker Oats box would tuck that one right into the memory bank!!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Set the top aside. Cut about one third of the box out, a longish rectangle, not quite all the way to the bottom. Put the top back on. You have one empty cradle ready to turn into a spiffy doll's bed. This was probably in some popular women's magazine in the early 50s or maybe even on the Quaker oats boxes themselves. Great little do it yourself project. Does anyone here remember when Mr. Potato Head was really made with a potato?
> 
> This stuff probably belongs on NB, but we could consider that these are remarks about a world which was supposedly better than this one because children were encouraged to use their imaginations instead of Mommy and Daddy's pocketbooks.


When I was a kid, the Mr. Potato Head toys came out. Also Mr. Carrot Head, Mrs. Potato Head, etc. I remember finding a box of Mr Potato Head years after with a desiccated spud inside.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we'll have to explain a lot.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> need to feed it to her gently.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Enjoy!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom said:
> 
> 
> > Hope you used soft thread!!
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Poke a hole in the lid and put your yarn in the box; feed the yarn through the hole. Hope your cat doesn't figure it out.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you may have an exclusive container for the necessary Paper but I have the unique Paper. Yes, I did (embroider it). Make all rooms inviting.


Huckleberry, this is magnificent. I guess the right word is elegant.

I hope the thread is of a non-shrinking and colorfast material.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yeah I read her book. She came to my neighborhood for a book signing and her son was at the school where I worked. I guess leaving a special community also makes for a compelling read.


It was probably quite a culture shock for her after a lifetime dominated by Satmar strictures.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Debunking the Argument That Fetuses Arent Children
> 
> by Krisi Burton Brown | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/9/14 12:56 PM
> 
> ...


I gotta hand it to you...you are persistent and consistent in your beliefs! 
Hello everyone.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Fannies?


damemary
I guess I did no get it quite right, wanted to alter fancies into fanies. Fan(c)ies = is that better?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry, this is magnificent. I guess the right word is elegant.
> 
> I hope the thread is of a non-shrinking and colorfast material.


Poor Purl
what an idea. Never thought of using thread that transfers. Could put neat writings on it like: "enjoyed your visit". Boy that could cause some trouble.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> what an idea. Never thought of using thread that transfers. Could put neat writings on it like: "enjoyed your visit". Boy that could cause some trouble.


Or a run on 3-way mirrors.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Just send another check to Planned Parenthood in "honor" of joeysomma. I pledged to donate every time she posts one of her favorites and increase it by a certain amount. Thank you joeysomma for the inspiration. Huck and the Choice-Friends who are doing likewise.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Just send another check to Planned Parenthood in "honor" of joeysomma. I pledged to donate every time she posts one of her favorites and increase it by a certain amount. Thank you joeysomma for the inspiration. Huck and the Choice-Friends who are doing likewise.


Really? How much have you sent so far? How much per quote? Just curious.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Really? How much have you sent so far? How much per quote? Just curious.


Frogging123
a fair amount. Collectively it will make a difference. It is nice to find a special reason to impact something.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Just send another check to Planned Parenthood in "honor" of joeysomma. I pledged to donate every time she posts one of her favorites and increase it by a certain amount. Thank you joeysomma for the inspiration. Huck and the Choice-Friends who are doing likewise.


It's the perfect response, Huck.

I can hardly see your new avatar. What is it?


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> a fair amount. Collectively it will make a difference. It is nice to find a special reason to impact something.


The skeptic in me wonders if you really send money....
If you do, I applaud you. How many of you send money? Sounds like 3?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Debunking the Argument That Fetuses Arent Children
> 
> by Krisi Burton Brown | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/9/14 12:56 PM
> 
> ...


.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> .


This says a lot. Great picture.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It was probably quite a culture shock for her after a lifetime dominated by Satmar strictures.


She seemed to have adjusted well to 'real' life.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's the perfect response, Huck.
> 
> I can hardly see your new avatar. What is it?


Poor Purl
Well, every action has a reaction and I always like mine to be effective. As to my avatar, I shall try to get a better picture. It is a Sock Monkey.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> The skeptic in me wonders if you really send money....
> If you do, I applaud you. How many of you send money? Sounds like 3?


Frogging123
Cross my Heart I did and keep doing it. Re-arranged my donation list to have plenty of funds to accomodate my increases.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry, this is magnificent. I guess the right word is elegant.
> 
> I hope the thread is of a non-shrinking and colorfast material.


Won't anyone think of the poor septic system??!!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> what an idea. Never thought of using thread that transfers. Could put neat writings on it like: "enjoyed your visit". Boy that could cause some trouble.


How about "Keep in touch?"


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> Cross my Heart I did and keep doing it. Re-arranged my donation list to have plenty of funds to accomodate my increases.


Huck, I shall follow some of your lead and make a few donations.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> How about "Keep in touch?"


maysmom
I love it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Huck, I shall follow some of your lead and make a few donations.


maysmom
needy Women will thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena
Thank you very much for the Article. A donation will be send to NARAL. Huck


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Athena, this was a very clear pro-choice argument (several arguments, in fact), but you know as well as I do that the people who ought to read and give thought to it are not going to. Still, thanks for posting.



TrueAthena said:


> This article is self-evidently an honest and intelligent perspective.
> 
> But bottom line is this. No, not all "life" has equal value and yes, I chose a grown woman's life over what is not a fully formed human being that is not viable outside the womb.
> 
> ...


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> His work is impressive. I love medieval art, and there's so much there. That bustier is gorgeous, but there seems to be a dragon's head on page 1 that needs to be shown in full. Thank you for this peek into his creativity.
> 
> And his wedding announcement was wonderful, too.


When I told my daughter about your and MarilynKnits' lovely remarks about Matt's website, she said, "Oh yeah, he made that corset for me." (That bustier.) Thank you again. I have passed both your and MarilynKnits' remarks along to Matt to encourage him to do more, and to update his website. It reminded me again of what a sweet couple they are.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> This article is self-evidently an honest and intelligent perspective.
> 
> But bottom line is this. No, not all "life" has equal value and yes, I chose a grown woman's life over what is not a fully formed human being that is not viable outside the womb.
> 
> http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/fetusperson.shtml


I have not copied the entirety of the text. It is a well thought out paper. As a person with a science minor heavier in biosciences than physics, I read and cannot find flaws in the logic of what has been written here. Of course, people invested in denying women autonomy over their living and viable bodies will poke their rhetorical holes into the arguments herein presented. There will always be Luddites who argue emotion over scientific fact.

Thank you for sharing this paper and special thanks to the person or people who did the research to create it.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> *not all "life" has equal value"* Who gets to play "God" and decide?


No one Joey. Roe v Wade is the law. If you want to personify G-d as 'the law' He has spoken.

Have you ever considered that G-d influenced the decision in Roe v Wade?

I'm not a religious person but I do believe that things happen for a reason. A court of law made a decision to allow abortions (with strict criteria - that has to be said) for a reason or reasons. We human beings are complex creatures and cannot be held hostage to any particular belief systems (and if their is a G-d, he made us complex). Attempts to do so result in total anarchy or war. Look at what is happening b/w Israel and Hamas right now.

To all the D&P's, I am not siding with anyone, I'm expressing MY opinion. Don't punish me for that.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> *not all "life" has equal value"* Who gets to play "God" and decide?


You seem to believe it is you. What gives you the right to dictate to other women how to handle their personal lives?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You seem to believe it is you. What gives you the right to dictate to other women how to handle their personal lives?


I honestly do not believe that Joey thinks she has a "right" Marilyn. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think that Joey sees what she is doing is a 'mission.' As I have said, I am not a religious person, however, my view is what I have stated but Joey is someone who is delivering a message. Joey believes with her heart what she is posting and she is making sure she gets her point across.

However, I'm not convinced that this is the appropriate site for her to do so.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> No one Joey. Roe v Wade is the law. If you want to personify G-d as 'the law' He has spoken.
> 
> Have you ever considered that G-d influenced the decision in Roe v Wade?
> 
> ...


Brava to the brave Wombat for speaking out for reason instead of religious intolerance. If the Denims drop you, then they could not be much of a friend to begin with.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> How about "Keep in touch?"


 :thumbup: :thumbup: funny and brillliant!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> *not all "life" has equal value"* Who gets to play "God" and decide?


You seem to feel you do.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> No one Joey. Roe v Wade is the law. If you want to personify G-d as 'the law' He has spoken.
> 
> Have you ever considered that G-d influenced the decision in Roe v Wade?
> 
> ...


This is an excellent rebuttal to Joey's message (except for that last paragraph, which made me cringe). Thank you.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You seem to believe it is you. What gives you the right to dictate to other women how to handle their personal lives?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I honestly do not believe that Joey thinks she has a "right" Marilyn. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think that Joey sees what she is doing is a 'mission.' As I have said, I am not a religious person, however, my view is what I have stated but Joey is someone who is delivering a message. Joey believes with her heart what she is posting and she is making sure she gets her point across.
> 
> However, I'm not convinced that this is the appropriate site for her to do so.


Joey opened this thread as a place to give her message, so I guess it's appropriate if anything is.

After yesterday's rampantly political piece, however, I question her sincerity.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You seem to feel you do.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Brava to the brave Wombat for speaking out for reason instead of religious intolerance. If the Denims drop you, then they could not be much of a friend to begin with.


Does that speak to the LOLL's too?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> *not all "life" has equal value"* Who gets to play "God" and decide?


joeysomma
you seem to have taken on the role to play Him. What ignorance you display. However, keep it up, it is attracting more and more opposition.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> SQM said:
> 
> 
> > Brava to the brave Wombat for speaking out for reason instead of religious intolerance. If the Denims drop you, then they could not be much of a friend to begin with.
> ...


I don't think any of us was "punishing" you. We simply got tired of hearing 30-year-old arguments for 50-year-old conspiracies, which you were trying to convince us to read even though their predictions *still* haven't come to pass. If one or two of us were rough in their speech, you ought to call them on it and not try to equate our behavior with that of D&P. They seem to ostracize people who don't toe their line politically and possibly even religiously. I know we don't do that.

You seemed to feel, a few days ago, that everyone was ganging up on you, but to me it felt as though you were throwing IED's at us. I, for one, followed your links, pointed out why they were unconvincing, and then saw you give the same links the following day. Why would you expect me (or anyone else) to take you seriously?

You have certain beliefs - religious, economic, political - that we've either discarded or chosen not to talk about, and you keep trying to convince us of them. It won't happen. When you're sincere about what you write and not following a tired old, disproved, conspiracy theory, you've been met with acceptance, but that hasn't been enough for you. You seem to want to change all our minds. No group of reasonable people would find that acceptable.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Does that speak to the LOLL's too?


Can't answer. Wombat went out on a limb re: her denim friends. I think her post made her more progressive sounding than we might have thought before. A liberal in Wombat clothing.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I honestly do not believe that Joey thinks she has a "right" Marilyn. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think that Joey sees what she is doing is a 'mission.' As I have said, I am not a religious person, however, my view is what I have stated but Joey is someone who is delivering a message. Joey believes with her heart what she is posting and she is making sure she gets her point across.
> 
> However, I'm not convinced that this is the appropriate site for her to do so.


*This is the appropriate place for joeysomma to make her point about abortion. She started this topic for exactly that reason. While I don't particularly like the way she's addressing the subject, it's a no-brainer that she gets to do it here. She's has the right to express herself. She has the right to be on a mission. She has the right to whatever religious beliefs she choses.

I really wonder why and how you come to think this may not be the apropriate place for joeysomma to do what she told us she intended to do here.

I don't happen to like the way joeysomma is expressing herself. I don't think she's going to get anyone who is pro-choice to agree with her. I think it's really weird that I, of all people, am supporting her.

I posted this a few days ago, and am repeating it. This is joeysomma's first post that started this topic:*

"I know this is a controversial subject and I will be called all sorts of names by the liberals and progressives. I found this article this morning and it needed to be shared. If this will save the life of one baby, all the name calling will be worth it.

It's the Body Count That Counts in the 'War on Women'

With the 40th anniversary of the Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision being marked this past week, it might be an auspicious time to check in on that "War on Women."

The phrase was one concocted by liberals during the last presidential election to characterize conservatives and the Republican Party in general.

The notion liberals were trying to convey was that conservatives were trying to pass laws allegedly restricting women's "right to choose," keeping them out of the work force and preventing them from achieving "equality." A couple of loud-mouthed Republican fossils like Rep. Todd Akin didn't help dispel the image.

Because abortion is so central to the Left's idea of feminism, it's appropriate to examine what exactly abortion has accomplished and how feminists' promotion of the industry has affected women.

So let's break this down.

The Left believes:

A woman's right to get an abortion is sacred. This includes anytime during a pregnancy, from the moment after conception up to the moments following giving birth. They have come up with numerous ways to accomplish this, from the morning after pill to gruesome third trimester abortions that collapse the skull of a living baby and pull out the carcass. Reports abound of certain doctors who, having delivered a live baby, are willing to let newborns die on a table or who outright kill the children after delivery by breaking their necks.
A woman should be a slut and be proud of the fact. Numerous liberal groups, including so-called family planning organizations, have taken to promoting "slut pride" campaigns that encourage women to have frequent sex with as many partners as she pleases. The only suggested caveat usually is that she should employ some form of birth control. What they don't advertise is that because of contraception failure rates, the average woman with an active sex life will become pregnant within two years despite using birth control. Encouraging sex with multiple partners also irresponsibly encourages the spread of disease. Most birth control will not stop a disease from being transmitted to a partner, and condoms are only partially effective.
An unborn child is just an inconvenience. The abortion lobby cannot acknowledge the personhood of unborn children because of the moral consequences. They change the vocabulary of the abortion discussiong by using euphemisms such as "fetus" to disguise what's being killed; "health care" to make conceal that abortion is almost never necessary and is physically dangerous to the mother; and "family planning" to cover the fact that what clinics are doing is preventing women from having a family and risking their future fertility to boot.
Abortion "frees" women. After an abortion, a woman won't have to worry about her time being taken up by pregnancy or having a child. She will have to worry about possible medical complications and long-lasting psychological scars. It's one thing to talk about "freedom to choose," but it's another to live with your choices, and choosing abortion comes with a lifetime of guilt and loss.

On the other hand, conservatives believe:
Human life is sacred. While there are cases where an abortion sadly is medically necessary, the vast majority of abortions are elective, and adoption would be a morally better choice. Life is the first right of all people, and adoption gives a child a chance while letting a woman go "free," which abortionists claim is their real goal.
A woman's choice to be a mother is equally as important as pursuing a career, and most wisely made before choosing to engage in sex. The decision to abstain outside of marriage is not only more dignified for a woman and her man, but it is also less physically risky and more conducive to long-term mental health. Married couples raising their children also help build a solid foundation for the community.
An unborn child is a blessing and potentially a boon for society. Children who are born into stable two-parent families are more likely to become contributing members of the community, and any one of them could potentially be the next Einstein or Jefferson.

So in summary, the Left encourages women to sacrifice their health and dignity to the feminist god of abortion. Women are reduced to "lady parts," as so many liberals and their organizations like to put it.

The Right wants women to be wise, healthy, dignified and respected.

While liberals fantasize about conservatives killing women in back alleys, it's the Left that has racked up an actual body count: 55 million since Roe v. Wade, half of those girls.

So who's really waging a war on women? The answer is written in blood.

http://politicaloutcast.com/2014/01/body-count-counts-war-women/#6V8jZJzOPZ0ilY3u.99"


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> *This is the appropriate place for joeysomma to make her point about abortion. She started this topic for exactly that reason. While I don't particularly like the way she's addressing the subject, it's a no-brainer that she gets to do it here. She's has the right to express herself. She has the right to be on a mission. She has the right to whatever religious beliefs she chooses.
> 
> I really wonder why and how you come to think this may not be the appropriate place for joeysomma to do what she told us she intended to do here.
> 
> ...


I cut it here because every time I see that sack of lies I get angry. Otherwise, I agree with everything you say. Including "it's really weird that I, of all people, am supporting her."


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> No one Joey. Roe v Wade is the law. If you want to personify G-d as 'the law' He has spoken.
> 
> Have you ever considered that G-d influenced the decision in Roe v Wade?
> 
> ...


Of course you're entitled to express your opinion. In my experience, people on the right (including D&P) are much more likely to support the freedom to express opinions -- even those they strongly disagree with and aggressively refute. It is the left that has the tendency to limit debate by claiming racism, sexism, and all the other ism's.

That said, I responded to your previous post (a few days ago) questioning Joey's motivations and I question why you feel it is inappropriate for Joey to post on the subject this thread was created for. It certainly comes across as personal criticisms of Joey and not as a discussion of the abortion issue.

There have already been a range of opinions on the abortion issue expressed by D&P, just as there has been on religion and even on cream cheese. This view of rigid conformity of D&P members is just another illusion put forward to limit true debate - which members of the left have told me on more than 1 occasion isn't really the intention of these threads.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

While a discussion about abortion may be interesting, I don't see how there will ever be any agreement among people who have radically different positions. Fact, belief and law all crash into each other in this discussion. Maybe there is *no* appropriate place to discuss abortion when no one is going to be persuaded to change their point of view.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

If all the brouhaha is about the appropriateness of discussion abortion here, that is a moot point. This is the only place on KP to do so.

What becomes more apparent, glaringly so, is that there can be no fruitful results to keeping the subject going.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think any of us was "punishing" you. We simply got tired of hearing 30-year-old arguments for 50-year-old conspiracies, which you were trying to convince us to read even though their predictions *still* haven't come to pass. If one or two of us were rough in their speech, you ought to call them on it and not try to equate our behavior with that of D&P. They seem to ostracize people who don't toe their line politically and possibly even religiously. I know we don't do that.
> 
> You seemed to feel, a few days ago, that everyone was ganging up on you, but to me it felt as though you were throwing IED's at us. I, for one, followed your links, pointed out why they were unconvincing, and then saw you give the same links the following day. Why would you expect me (or anyone else) to take you seriously?
> 
> You have certain beliefs - religious, economic, political - that we've either discarded or chosen not to talk about, and you keep trying to convince us of them. It won't happen. When you're sincere about what you write and not following a tired old, disproved, conspiracy theory, you've been met with acceptance, but that hasn't been enough for you. You seem to want to change all our minds. No group of reasonable people would find that acceptable.


I have never tried to change minds. I couldn't if I wanted to. I only think there's more to every story. I think that in most cases, truth is not absolute. I trouble myself over what sources are acceptable. I know that anything considered "right wing" is not. I have never considered wiki a reliable source but you've used it so I decided to compromise. And I get attacked. The articles I chose presented both sides of the issue. They started with support for the abortionist, and then lower in the article they got into what backed up what I was saying about abortionists killing real babies not just fetuses (late term abortion). I thought that since it talked about both sides it would be accepted. I was wrong! I did not post the same links the next day. I posted links to you tube, one about Gosnell and one of employees from another clinic, talking about what goes on. The discussion progressed to how abortion prevents babies with disabilities from living a horrible life. I responded to Maid's comment and hurt her feelings. It was not my intent and before I could apologize, I was ripped apart. In my mind, it was part of the overall discussion on abortion, proof of the point I was trying to make. But it seemed that no one objected when insensitive comments were made about me. I'm quick to apologize when I've said something offensive or when my comments were misunderstood. But I can't remember a time when anyone has apologized to me.

No one commented on the fact that abortionists are performing horrific late term abortions. No one agreed or disagreed with the practice, they just denied and attacked. Over and over I was attacked and ridiculed. For days everybody laughed about giving me the finger. Funny?!? Is this how you treat your friends?

When you look up the word "liberal", the first thing it says is, " open to new behavior or opinions". And you call yourselves liberals? It seems to me that we can be friends as long as we agree on something or talk about nothing significant. Am I your conservative "pet" or do I have a right to express my opinions? In my opinion, a discussion is like a debate. It goes back and forth.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Dead Horse, dead Horse. Women who choose are extremely well informed and cannot be swayed by narrow thinking.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Just because it is the "law" does not mean it is a good law. Remember the "separate but equal" law of the 1910's. It took decades to repeal. Any influence God may have had in the law, was to allow us to have our way, to destroy ourselves. 55+ million strong. Maybe we aborted the one person who would find the cure for cancer or aids.
> Satan is alive and well on planet earth. God will be the victor in the end.


 :thumbup: Amen


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maysmom said:


> If all the brouhaha is about the appropriateness of discussion abortion here, that is a moot point. This is the only place on KP to do so.
> 
> What becomes more apparent, glaringly so, is that there can be no fruitful results to keeping the subject going.


I'm beginning to think this topic should be renamed "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here".

Maybe someone has a good idea for a new title and approach. The abortion discussion has become an endless repitition of popular sentiments on the subject'


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm beginning to think this topic should be renamed "Abandon hope, all ye who enter here".
> 
> Maybe someone has a good idea for a new title and approach. The abortion discussion has become an endless repitition of popular sentiments on the subject'


That's what I'm saying.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maysmom said:


> That's what I'm saying.


Check out the new topic I just started called "Current Events". Feel free to take the free-for-all there without any restriction of subjects that are open for discussion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have never tried to change minds.


What else was the point of sending us links to follow up on and then being upset that some weren't reading them? 


> I couldn't if I wanted to. I only think there's more to every story. I think that in most cases, truth is not absolute.


 But you've said numerous times that everything is black and white, or at least that you see things that way. Which should I think is true?



> I trouble myself over what sources are acceptable. I know that anything considered "right wing" is not. I have never considered wiki a reliable source but you've used it so I decided to compromise.


Wiki by it's very nature can't be reliable, but when it quotes news reports on trials or excerpts from books that are being questioned, those can be reliable. It's a question of judgment sometimes.



> And I get attacked. The articles I chose presented both sides of the issue. They started with support for the abortionist, and then lower in the article they got into what backed up what I was saying about abortionists killing real babies not just fetuses (late term abortion).


Maybe I don't believe that that's what's going on because I don't want to believe it. Or maybe I have more confidence in doctors than you have - and they are not merely abortionists; they're well-trained (usually) ob-gyns. I can't imagine anyone who signed the Hippocratic Oath killing a baby unless it was to save somebody else. And I know, having followed the argument since the 1970's, that a lot of stuff has been concocted by anti-choice groups. I think what you're showing me (us) is more of the same.

It doesn't seem to have bothered you that someone walked into a church and *deliberately* killed a doctor that many women had depended on. Why is his life less important than those of the unborn, whatever stage they're in?



> I thought that since it talked about both sides it would be accepted. I was wrong! I did not post the same links the next day. I posted links to you tube, one about Gosnell and one of employees from another clinic, talking about what goes on.


We all know about Gosnell, and most of us know he's hardly typical of the doctors who have performed abortions. What else are you doing with these but trying to change people's minds? The post you duplicated the next day was the one about John Holdren. He simply is not the evil man you try to make him seem.



> The discussion progressed to how abortion prevents babies with disabilities from living a horrible life. I responded to Maid's comment and hurt her feelings. It was not my intent and before I could apologize, I was ripped apart. In my mind, it was part of the overall discussion on abortion, proof of the point I was trying to make. But it seemed that no one objected when insensitive comments were made about me. I'm quick to apologize when I've said something offensive or when my comments were misunderstood. But I can't remember a time when anyone has apologized to me.


 Sure you can. I apologized to you, and I bet others have, too. As to the question of whether aborting a handicapped fetus is bad or good, that's a choice the law leaves up to the woman, her doctor, and maybe her family. Some families have been bankrupted by the costs of caring for a disabled child - if the fetus is known beforehand to be disabled, isn't it kinder to terminate than to make the entire living family suffer? Anyway, this is not the place to discuss it.



> No one commented on the fact that abortionists are performing horrific late term abortions. No one agreed or disagreed with the practice, they just denied and attacked.


 I don't know about attacks, but I certainly will deny that "abortionists are performing horrific late term abortions"; as I said before, the doctors may be performing late-term abortions because the mothers' health and/or life requires it. This, too, has been argued about for at least 35 years, and you haven't added anything new. Why should we be forced to get into it again?


> Over and over I was attacked and ridiculed. For days everybody laughed about giving me the finger. Funny?!? Is this how you treat your friends?


Over and over? For days? By how many different people? I don't think middle-finger jokes are funny, so I doubt that I laughed, though I may have been having a bad day, but if that happened I think it's because of something you said that we took badly.



> When you look up the word "liberal", the first thing it says is, " open to new behavior or opinions". And you call yourselves liberals? It seems to me that we can be friends as long as we agree on something or talk about nothing significant. Am I your conservative "pet" or do I have a right to express my opinions? In my opinion, a discussion is like a debate. It goes back and forth.


It's a discussion until you insist that we read your links or just take your word for things. After that it becomes a tirade, and all of us are tired of that.

By now the words "liberal" and "conservative" have taken on meanings very different from their origins. Political conservative don't want to conserve anything; the 5 Catholic judges on SCOTUS have made enormous changes in the law, totally defying precedent. And liberals aren't always ready to be open to every new idea, esp. when the "new" idea is a very old one.

I'm not feeling well now and don't want to go on with this rant, but I'd like to ask whether you read the pro-choice message TrueAthena posted yesterday? If you haven't, that's fine, but then you'll never understand what all or most of us feel about the issue of abortion.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is an excellent rebuttal to Joey's message (except for that last paragraph, which made me cringe). Thank you.
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


That is so sad - it makes me sad too- Thank Heavens we don't punish anyone for disagreeing with us. People who want to discuss are welcome here.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have never tried to change minds. I couldn't if I wanted to. I only think there's more to every story. I think that in most cases, truth is not absolute. I trouble myself over what sources are acceptable. I know that anything considered "right wing" is not. I have never considered wiki a reliable source but you've used it so I decided to compromise. And I get attacked. The articles I chose presented both sides of the issue. They started with support for the abortionist, and then lower in the article they got into what backed up what I was saying about abortionists killing real babies not just fetuses (late term abortion). I thought that since it talked about both sides it would be accepted. I was wrong! I did not post the same links the next day. I posted links to you tube, one about Gosnell and one of employees from another clinic, talking about what goes on. The discussion progressed to how abortion prevents babies with disabilities from living a horrible life. I responded to Maid's comment and hurt her feelings. It was not my intent and before I could apologize, I was ripped apart. In my mind, it was part of the overall discussion on abortion, proof of the point I was trying to make. But it seemed that no one objected when insensitive comments were made about me. I'm quick to apologize when I've said something offensive or when my comments were misunderstood. But I can't remember a time when anyone has apologized to me.
> 
> No one commented on the fact that abortionists are performing horrific late term abortions. No one agreed or disagreed with the practice, they just denied and attacked. Over and over I was attacked and ridiculed. For days everybody laughed about giving me the finger. Funny?!? Is this how you treat your friends?
> 
> When you look up the word "liberal", the first thing it says is, " open to new behavior or opinions". And you call yourselves liberals? It seems to me that we can be friends as long as we agree on something or talk about nothing significant. Am I your conservative "pet" or do I have a right to express my opinions? In my opinion, a discussion is like a debate. It goes back and forth.


Come on Neb - did you mean what you said many times when you posted that you were able to have discussions here without being attacked etc. Do you really think that we consider you a Conservative pet - ???


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Come on Neb - did you mean what you said many times when you posted that you were able to have discussions here without being attacked etc. Do you really think that we consider you a Conservative pet - ???


Designer1234
well, I moved the discussion to embroidering Toilet Paper, any other outlandish ideas I can go for?- - - - - No, no not that, already did a pocket for Mr. Happy some time ago.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I honestly do not believe that Joey thinks she has a "right" Marilyn. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think that Joey sees what she is doing is a 'mission.' As I have said, I am not a religious person, however, my view is what I have stated but Joey is someone who is delivering a message. Joey believes with her heart what she is posting and she is making sure she gets her point across.
> 
> However, I'm not convinced that this is the appropriate site for her to do so.


Thank you, Wombat. I appreciate your perspective.

However, I would think after all these chapters and pages that Joey would realize she is not making an impact on a bunch of fellow knitters, most of whom are well past our childbearing years. Unless it is her goal to goad people into disparaging and insulting her, she does not appear to be succeeding. It certainly does not seem that she is changing anybody's opinion, either. People who agree with her beliefs continue to believe and those who don't continue to believe in the righteousness of their opinion.

Certainly I respect her right to her opinion although my opinion is the diametric opposite of hers. That said,I would never have had an abortion. The idea of abortion saddens me. Those are two points many of us have in common.

But the right to have a medically safe abortion is the law of the land. And I believe it is beyond arrogant to tell any other woman how to handle her health care issues, from having facial enhancement surgery, liposuction, or surgery for any and all reproductive issues.

I would not want someone passing laws to prevent me from having a short hair cut because in their religion it is men who have short hair and women who have long hair. Nor would I want to be legally prevented from wearing jeans because pants are men's clothing and "cross dressing" is prohibited. My body is no longer esthetically magnificent (if it ever was ) but when I was younger and slimmer and had firmer muscle tone I wore more revealing clothing than I do now. To some religionists it would have been considered abominable and immoral, probably while the hypocrites were staring and salivating.

It is horrible to me that government has its eyes in our bedrooms and dictates strictures on the most personal aspects of our lives. From what I have read, Republicans claim they want smaller government. But conversely, they want to have government intrude more and more on our personal rights. It reeks of sanctimonious hypocrisy to me.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Does that speak to the LOLL's too?


Not sure I understand what you are asking. The FFDPs have never acted friendly to the LOLLs, so there is no issue of being dropped. But I have seen that those of us on the left of center can call one another out on an issue and still remain friends. The FFDPs appear to become much more hostile toward people who do not toe the party line.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thank you, Wombat. I appreciate your perspective.
> 
> However, I would think after all these chapters and pages that Joey would realize she is not making an impact on a bunch of fellow knitters, most of whom are well past our childbearing years. Unless it is her goal to goad people into disparaging and insulting her, she does not appear to be succeeding. It certainly does not seem that she is changing anybody's opinion, either. People who agree with her beliefs continue to believe and those who don't continue to believe in the righteousness of their opinion.
> 
> ...


I honestly believe that Joey overlooks the key fact here 'But the right to have a medically safe abortion is the law of the land' Yes, a 'medically safe abortion'. I think Joey does not realise that if she achieves her goal and has abortions criminalised then women will once again be forced to risk their lives with the back yard operators.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I honestly believe that Joey overlooks the key fact here 'But the right to have a medically safe abortion is the law of the land' Yes, a 'medically safe abortion'. I think Joey does not realise that if she achieves her goal and has abortions criminalised then women will once again be forced to risk their lives with the back yard operators.


It is sadder if she realizes and does not care. Saddest if she does not see that she is making a choice of devaluing the life of the living, existing adult human being.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

TrueAthena said:


> The skeptic in me wonders why you're pretending to "applaud" Huck while you accuse her of being a liar at the same time.


Only in that it's a rare person that actually backs up what they claim. It takes an honest and convicted person to back up their words and do what they say. I do applaud her...she is practicing what she preaches.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Check out the new topic I just started called "Current Events". Feel free to take the free-for-all there without any getstriction of subjects that are open for discussion.


I have no idea where this topic went. When I try searching for it, it doesn't come up but a topic called "Rough and Tumble something-something does. I guess that will do and anyone who wants to have some hand-to-hand discussion can go there.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not sure I understand what you are asking. The FFDPs have never acted friendly to the LOLLs, so there is no issue of being dropped. But I have seen that those of us on the left of center can call one another out on an issue and still remain friends. The FFDPs appear to become much more hostile toward people who do not toe the party line.


You guys use so many acronyms...FFDPs? LOLLs?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I will not copy and paste any articles about abortion on your new thread.


You're quite welcome to. I'm not trying to limit any discussion but this one you started has really wandered all over the place. It seemed like a new topic that wasn't focused on a particular issue would be a good idea.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have no idea where this topic went. When I try searching for it, it doesn't come up but a topic called "Rough and Tumble something-something does. I guess that will do and anyone who wants to have some hand-to-hand discussion can go there.


It is there "Current Events" http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-271671-1.html


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> It is there "Current Events" http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-271671-1.html


Oh, good. When I tried to search for the topic it didn't come up and I thought Ihad made some mistake trying to create a new topic.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> People are not required to treat the religious with "kid gloves". Criticizing the religious is not "religious intolerance", it's merely criticizing them equally as anyone else's perspectives.
> 
> I don't believe that Joey's actions are motivated by sincere religious beliefs, they're motivated by a need to harass people.
> 
> Which is her "choice", but we should not be forced to "tolerate" that nonsense, or treat it with a special reverence because she "claims" it's a religious belief.


But you are stating a belief that Joey is not acting on her beliefs. How would you know that?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes God gave you free will.
> He also said: Exodus 20: 13 (NKJV)_You shall not murder."_
> Also we have the Declaration of Independence. _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness._
> God gave each of us the right to life. Who are we to decide who we can murder and every abortion *is* murder. Especially children who have not taken a breath.
> Scientifically, life begins with fertilized egg. Period.


Is medical treatment a right? Even if you can't afford it?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> You guys use so many acronyms...FFDPs? LOLLs?


The acronyms refer to two different topics, I think FFDP is for fast friends or friends forever in denim and pearls, and loll is ladies of the liberal left. Each is sort of a chat room for people of the conservative persuasion (FFDP) or the liberal viewpoint (LOLL). When people cross over to visit the opposing chat room, particularly when visiting the right by a person from the left, it can start to sound like the floor of the House of Representatives.

The one or two times I entered FFDP I found comments telling the lefties to get lost. But there has been animosity expressed in both directions. There have been occasions when the rhetoric became heated to the degree that Knitting Paradise administration suspended access to people for anti social or worse comments.

The life of a knitter or crocheter does not have to be boring!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> And you "presume" she is sincere and how would _you_ know that? Why are you allowed YOUR presumptions, and I am not?
> 
> Secondly, I already explained that in part.
> 
> ...


I have made no presumptions re: Mrs. Somma's beliefs and actions. All I did was ask you a question. I prefer to go to the"original source" and ask her exactly what her motivations are rather than guess.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sorry Planned Parenthood, But Pro-Life Sentiment Hits an All-Time High
> 
> by Michael New, Ph.D. | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/10/14 4:38 PM
> 
> ...


Ask Eric Cantor how accurate and reliable polling results are.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not sure I understand what you are asking. The FFDPs have never acted friendly to the LOLLs, so there is no issue of being dropped. But I have seen that those of us on the left of center can call one another out on an issue and still remain friends. The FFDPs appear to become much more hostile toward people who do not toe the party line.


You are absolutely right, Marilyn.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> But you are stating a belief that Joey is not acting on her beliefs. How would you know that?


It's obvious from the fact that she posted this, which is purely political:



joeysomma said:


> This Pro-Life Womans New Book Assault and Flattery Takes on the Phony War on Women
> 
> by Cortney O'Brien | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/9/14 3:37 PM
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have made no presumptions re: Mrs. Somma's beliefs and actions. All I did was ask you a question. I prefer to go to the"original source" and ask her exactly what her motivations are rather than guess.


Please let us all know if she tells you anything other than that she's doing God's work, or if she admits that her motivations are less than pure and what she's really interested in is making life unpleasant for women who may need abortions and those of us on the left who support them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I will not copy and paste any articles about abortion on your new thread.


Apropos of nothing, could I put in a word for the poor overdressed sleepy cat in your avatar? It's summer, and s/he looks as though s/he wishes s/he could go for a swim, or at least perspire.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This is really well-informed. Thanks for posting.



TrueAthena said:


> The only "belief" she has is harassing women and devaluing their REAL lives.
> 
> Her _claimed_ "beliefs" are not sincere.
> 
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My cat is a Green Bay Packer cat. He is a Packer Fan all year. I found his picture on the internet, the same site where Bratty Patty's cat was.


 :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Mrs. Somma is the goddess of FFD&P.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My cat is a Green Bay Packer cat. He is a Packer Fan all year. I found his picture on the internet, the same site where Bratty Patty's cat was.
> 
> http://www.technocrazed.com/the-top-28-cat-sweater-designs-photo-gallery


If I find a Packer cat in lighter clothes, would you use it?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Only in that it's a rare person that actually backs up what they claim. It takes an honest and convicted person to back up their words and do what they say. I do applaud her...she is practicing what she preaches.


Frogging123
let me give you a little insight into who I am. I ONLY get involved in matters of great importance to me whether for just one individual or many and once I find such an issue, I know no boundaries and stick to it 100%. By the way I have been an escort at Abortion Clinics for many years and shall do that even if I would need a wheelchair to get around. The wellbeing of women in any need touches my Heart. I always practice what I preach no matter what the obstacles. My intents are pure. It is that simple. I am also surrounded by VERY dedicated People of both Genders lending support to others regulary. They too practice what they preach. Huck


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma is the goddess of FFD&P.


Was this in response to anything or just a spontaneous outburst of adoration?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> let me give you a little insight into who I am. I ONLY get involved in matters of great importance to me whether for just one individual or many and once I find such an issue, I know no boundaries and stick to it 100%. By the way I have been an escort at Abortion Clinics for many years and shall do that even if I would need a wheelchair to get around. The wellbeing of women in any need touches my Heart. I always practice what I preach no matter what the obstacles. My intents are pure. It is that simple. I am also surrounded by VERY dedicated People of both Genders lending support to others regulary. They too practice what they preach. Huck


Huck does back up her words -- she is absolutely truthful in her actions and her statements of her beliefs.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I like my Packer cat.


And it's cold in Green Bay (during football season).


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, good. When I tried to search for the topic it didn't come up and I thought Ihad made some mistake trying to create a new topic.


If you are the original poster you should get an e-mail notice whenever there is a new comment posted.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma is the goddess of FFD&P.


Joeys is no goddess. She is a sinner saved by Grace. :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Was this in response to anything or just a spontaneous outburst of adoration?


Or should we note sarcasm here?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you people even listen to yourselves?!? You all speak as if the division is all caused by those on the right. Everything you accuse them of, you are guilty also!!!  It doesn't matter what I say or what sources I post, I get shot down every time! I don't think any of you take one second to even consider what I say! You accused me of lying and making stuff up! You denigrate my opinions! You are as close minded as anyone else! You refuse to even consider that anything you thought was true, might not be! You say you are my friend! Is this how you treat your friends? I'm tired of being verbally beat up! You can have it! You can all be right!


KFN - just because we don't agree, never have and never will agree with you doesn't mean we are beating you up. Your sources 
are not saying anything that is acceptable to us. Ours are not acceptable to you. We will never convince each other.

It has taken me my whole life to become who I am - the others have studied and through their life experiences have become who they are. We know who we are and what we believe.

You knew that when you came. When we don't agree with you you say we are beating you up. Friendship to me means that people can disagree and still be friends by respecting that there are differences of opinion.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My cat is a Green Bay Packer cat. He is a Packer Fan all year. I found his picture on the internet, the same site where Bratty Patty's cat was.
> 
> http://www.technocrazed.com/the-top-28-cat-sweater-designs-photo-gallery


Oh. I thought it was a Robin Hood hat.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _...the only reproductive right that God gave women was to bear children and raise them to become godly adults. He did not give them the right to murder their unborn children. In fact,
> 
> Exodus 21:22-23 states:
> 
> ...


Doesn't say harm to whom. It can surely be interpreted that if the harm is done to the woman, that is the reason a penalty should be imposed.

Or are you advocating the rights of the unborn supercede the rights of the already born and grown? Would you be advocating leaving a man to raise motherless children? Where is the compassionate love in that?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Was this in response to anything or just a spontaneous outburst of adoration?


God knows what I meant. Just feel she may have emerged as Leader of the Pack over there. Where is KPG? I think there may be a vacancy on FF.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I like my Packer cat.


Be neighborly. PP finds the most amusing things. She just might find you another Packer Cat that is more suited for the season. Let her try.

I am from Chicago. I imagine that you live not so far away.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> _...the only reproductive right that God gave women was to bear children and raise them to become godly adults. He did not give them the right to murder their unborn children. In fact,
> 
> Exodus 21:22-23 states:
> 
> ...


Upon a rare closer reading of your post, I do not see that your conclusion necessarily follows from the ideas in your quote. First it deals with beating a pregnant woman. and secondly, the passage says "You shall pay for life". This follows a mention of a fine. So your excerpt says nada about abortions or being executed. It does mention physical harm to a pregnant woman and paying her a life-long fine.

Back to the books, Babes.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Bullpucky.
> 
> I wasn't guessing I was using abductive and deductive reasoning.
> 
> ...


Another question then: Why is she bothering to preach to postmenopausal women? Is this dress rehearsal for some other medium? Plus I would prefer to discuss her motives with her rather than hearing it from someone else.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> God knows what I meant. Just feel she may have emerged as Leader of the Pack over there. Where is KPG? I think there may be a vacancy on FF.


KPG is visiting the Calgary Stampede! And spending time in the Canadian Rockies. She is visiting Vancouver Island too. I would think it will be awhile before she comes back into all our lives. :XD:

 Just for your info. The Stampede is, I believe the largest rodeo in the world - 20,000 people a day are going through our airport during this time. This time last year we were recovering from our worst flooding in our history - this year it is just beautiful here.

We were at the airport for coffee with a KP friend and her husband this morning - it was nice to meet someone from Sydney Australia - they drove through the mountains and spent time in Banff and Lake Louise. We were treated royally in Sydney by two of my Aussie Quilting online friends a few years ago. We have often taken visitors around the area as it is so beautiful and we are very proud to show the area off.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> God knows what I meant. Just feel she may have emerged as Leader of the Pack over there. Where is KPG? I think there may be a vacancy on FF.


She's probably away on vacation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Another question then: Why is she bothering to preach to postmenopausal women? Is this dress rehearsal for some other medium? Plus I would prefer to discuss her motives with her rather than hearing it from someone else.


Postmenopausal women might still be made to feel guilty for things they did in the past, and if they're pro-choice they can be told they support murder of little babies.

If you think that by discussing her motives with her you'll get a truthful answer, then there's a bridge going past your abode that I could sell you. (Not the Brooklyn Bridge. Only the dead know Brooklyn.)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> KPG is visiting the Calgary Stampede! And spending time in the Canadian Rockies. She could be on the Rocky Mountaineer train (which is really a neat train) as we speak. Don't believe she will be back for awhile - has lots going on up here in Canada for a wonderful holiday.
> 
> Just for your info. The Stampede is, I believe the largest rodeo in the world - 20,000 people a day are going through our airport during this time.
> 
> We were there meeting another KP friend this morning - it was nice to meet someone from Sydney Australia - they drove through the mountains and spent time in Banff and Lake Louise.


Will you meet KPG? I don't like rodeos. They are cruel to the animals.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Postmenopausal women might still be made to feel guilty for things they did in the past, and if they're pro-choice they can be told they support murder of little babies.
> 
> If you think that by discussing her motives with her you'll get a truthful answer, then there's a bridge going past your abode that I could sell you. (Not the Brooklyn Bridge. Only the dead know Brooklyn.)


What is the 'truth". Anyway, I try not to concern myself with motives. I prefer behavior. And it certainly is within her rights to post her chazarie here. I of course practice my right of skipping over it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> =Will you meet KPG? I don't like rodeos. They are cruel to the animals.


no way, ever -- I did post some info on their thread which was ignored but I would not be surprised if she used it. - No acknowledgment - wondered whether politeness would win out -- it didn't.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Will you meet KPG? I don't like rodeos. They are cruel to the animals.


Our rodeo is over l00 years old. I grew up here. Lots of people agree with you. It has improved over the years but still there are accidents. We don't go any more but when we were young we always went to the Chuckwagon races. This is the part of Canada that is cowboy country - grin. Born and raised here. pardnuh!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> KFN - just because we don't agree, never have and never will agree with you doesn't mean we are beating you up. Your sources
> are not saying anything that is acceptable to us. Ours are not acceptable to you. We will never convince each other.
> 
> It has taken me my whole life to become who I am - the others have studied and through their life experiences have become who they are. We know who we are and what we believe.
> ...


Designer1234
I like the colors of your Shawl (?), very pretty. It feels so good to have been around a few years, we learn so much IF we go through Life with open eyes and open minds. You are right about Friendship and disagreements. You should have your ears to the wall when a group of us (old Friends) get together. It might sound like WWIII in the making. Strong Women and Men of various backgounds and quite opinionated. However there never is anger attached to what we say and we ALWAYS part with heartfelt hugs and look forward to the next roundup. It feels good to be a grounded individual and having been raised strict but fair. I never look for acceptance of my opinions just hope that it may entice others to take a 2nd look as I always try to do. Whatever I know I learned from others and am thankful for it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> KPG is visiting the Calgary Stampede! And spending time in the Canadian Rockies. She is visiting Vancouver Island too. I would think it will be awhile before she comes back into all our lives. :XD:
> 
> Just for your info. The Stampede is, I believe the largest rodeo in the world - 20,000 people a day are going through our airport during this time. This time last year we were recovering from our worst flooding in our history - this year it is just beautiful here.
> 
> We were at the airport for coffee with a KP friend and her husband this morning - it was nice to meet someone from Sydney Australia - they drove through the mountains and spent time in Banff and Lake Louise. We were treated royally in Sydney by two of my Aussie Quilting online friends a few years ago. We have often taken visitors around the area as it is so beautiful and we are very proud to show the area off.


Designer1234
Husband and BIL visited the Calgary Stampede a few years back (it was awful hot) and met a lot of People from other countries there. They had a swell time. They also spend time in Banff and Lake Louise. They took an 8,000 Mile trip going through the States and part of Canada - it took them 8 weeks. They are expert photographers and looking at their pictures it almost felt I too made the trip. I re-arranged the house during that time but left his Underwear and Socks in the same Drawers (that is one of the keys to a happy marriage) everything else was parked in a different location.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I like the colors of your Shawl (?), very pretty. It feels so good to have been around a few years, we learn so much IF we go through Life with open eyes and open minds. You are right about Friendship and disagreements. You should have your ears to the wall when a group of us (old Friends) get together. It might sound like WWIII in the making. Strong Women and Men of various backgounds and quite opinionated. However there never is anger attached to what we say and we ALWAYS part with heartfelt hugs and look forward to the next roundup. It feels good to be a grounded individual and having been raised strict but fair. I never look for acceptance of my opinions just hope that it may entice others to take a 2nd look as I always try to do. Whatever I know I learned from others and am thankful for it.


Huck - I agree - you can't put a fence around friendship. You accept people who they are and what they believe as long as it works both ways. They have to accept you for what you believe.
We belonged to a group much the same as your group - not many left now - but we used to have some really 'hot conversations' some of them would deliberately try an argument that we knew they didn't believe. Lots of interesting back and forth.

My motives have been ridiculed and questioned - so I certainly have learned some lessons here.

One thing that is great - we are friends here but we don't have to agree with each other about everything - that to me is Huge.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Yet, in other cases, God seems to think it's OK to kill children:
> 
> For instance, killing brats seems to be a good thing:
> 
> ...


=======================
Nothing more needs to be said- 
This says it all.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Yet, in other cases, God seems to think it's OK to kill children:
> 
> For instance, killing brats seems to be a good thing:
> 
> ...


Brilliant post. Athena is our new rebbetzin. Great rebut.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> In the examples that were mentioned, God either killed the children or allowed them to be killed. After all, He is God!


Why would you worship that sort of god?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> In the examples that were mentioned, God either killed the children or allowed them to be killed. After all, He is God!


joeysomma
you can't be for real. Now you made the most disgusting statement ever. I truly believe that it is Satan you worhip and have been calling him by another name.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> In the examples that were mentioned, God either killed the children or allowed them to be killed. After all, He is God!


So God gives us a commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And then uses us to perform murders for Him? That's quite some God you worship.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> What is the 'truth". Anyway, I try not to concern myself with motives. I prefer behavior. And it certainly is within her rights to post her chazarie here. I of course practice my right of skipping over it.


If you try not to concern yourself with motives, then what did this message of yours mean?



SQM said:


> Another question then: Why is she bothering to preach to postmenopausal women? Is this dress rehearsal for some other medium? Plus I would prefer to discuss her motives with her rather than hearing it from someone else.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Abortion Activist: So What if Abortion Ends a Life? Im Still for Abortion
> 
> by Rebecca Downs | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/10/14 1:18 PM
> 
> Washington, DC (LiveActionNews)  _Put rather simply, ones opinion on abortion can generally be summed up depending on whether the person accepts that life begins at conception or not, as science so clearly tells us that it does._


_
Even her opening sentence is not true. She obviously has no idea what pro-choice people think or want, and I'm sure she isn't interested. So why does she write as if she understands our point of view (which of course she can prove wrong) when she hasn't the foggiest idea?

If you have any interest in what pro-choice really is about, you could read the long message posted by TrueAthena at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-270735-89.html#5663493. Do I expect you to do that? No. But once in a while it's nice to surprise someone._


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> In the examples that were mentioned, God either killed the children or allowed them to be killed. After all, He is God!


Sure, they're His toys; He can break them if He wants to.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> This article is self-evidently an honest and intelligent perspective.
> 
> But bottom line is this. No, not all "life" has equal value and yes, I chose a grown woman's life over what is not a fully formed human being that is not viable outside the womb.
> 
> ...


Excellent discussion. Thank you for providing it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Logic. I assume you've never met.



joeysomma said:


> *not all "life" has equal value"* Who gets to play "God" and decide?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> If all the brouhaha is about the appropriateness of discussion abortion here, that is a moot point. This is the only place on KP to do so.
> 
> What becomes more apparent, glaringly so, is that there can be no fruitful results to keeping the subject going.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put.



TrueAthena said:


> The only "belief" she has is harassing women and devaluing their REAL lives.
> 
> Her _claimed_ "beliefs" are not sincere.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with using your intelligence and free will.



TrueAthena said:


> We all do. That's why God gave us free will and advanced brain power (compared to some other animals on this earth)
> 
> Yes, I don't believe that a fetus has such superior rights that that we should essentially be raping women and forcing them into life threatening medical conditions and procedures against their will.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Well, I understand that she thinks the law is immoral and wrong.
> 
> But, I think that just gestating a fetus and giving birth are already potentially life threatening and what she's saying is that every women is morally obliged and should be legally obliged to risk sacrificing her own life for a fetus.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

56,662,169 Abortions in America Since Roe vs. Wade in 1973

by Randy O'Bannon, Ph.D. | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 1/12/14 5:11 PM

Print
Email

National

Given the trends seen in recent national reports, National Right to Life now believes that there have been over 56 million abortions since 1973.

One critical piece of evidence in that calculation arrived in November of 2013, when the U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) reported its latest national figures. It was important to find out whether the drop in abortions for 2009 seen by the CDC4.6%would continue in 2010. If it dropped again, wed have some confidence that the 2009 figure wasnt just some odd statistical aberration, that there really was some real and significant decline. It did.

As reported in NRL News Today, abortions for 2010 declined another 3.1%, according to the CDC. (See CDC Report Shows Decline in Abortions for 2010; abortion rates and ratios both down)

We typically like to compare and confirm those trends with data from the Guttmacher Institute, the former special research affiliate of Planned Parenthood which publishes its own private study.

Guttmacher, which surveys abortion clinics, hospitals, and private practice physicians directly, has higher and what are widely thought to be more reliable abortion numbers. Unlike the CDC, however, they do not survey every year, and have not, as of this date, published anything more recent than 2008 data when Guttmacher reported there were 1,212,400 abortions.

The CDC publishes national totals of its own. However they have been missing data from several states, including the nations most populous, California, since 1998, so their recent totals leave out hundreds of thousands of abortions. It creates a bit of a conundrum, because the new CDC data showing the trend doesnt really give a complete national count, while better national annual tally, from Guttmacher, is years out of date. Under the circumstances, the best one can do is to apply the trend from one to the total from the other and extrapolate. Its not ideal, but it allows you to produce a justifiable ballpark estimate.

Thus the 56 million+ figure comes from the mathematical application of the assumption that the Guttmacher numbers will roughly reflect the same declining percentage in the number of abortions that the CDC found.

LONG TERM TRENDS ENCOURAGING

The long term trend is fewer abortions, and the number is down significantly from 1990 when the country saw 1.6 million abortions a year. As one measure of the impact your work has had, if the number of abortions had remained at 1.6 million, more than seven MILLION more babies would have died.

The publication of data from the CDC last November is good reason to believe there is a new major downward trend. The drop of 3.1% for 2010 was not as large as the 4.6% drop for 2009, but it is still considerable and the arrows are pointing in the same direction.

We obviously cant know in advance whether the numbers Guttmacher will publish later this year will show the same drop off. However if those same percentage of declines CDC found were applied to the number Guttmacher reported for 2008, the number of abortions for 2009 would become 1,156,630. Likewise, for 2010 the number of abortions would be 1,120,775.

So far, so good.

If one assumes that the 1,120,775 number held constant from 2011 to 2013, the total number of abortions would be 54,972,980.

But Guttmacher concedes that it might undercount the number by 3%. Add that 3% and it yields a total of 56,662,169 abortions since 1973.

Despite the seeming precision, this is not an exact number. No such number is possible. There will always be missed abortions, missed abortionists. Adjustments, however careful, will always be imprecise.

But given the data we have, we feel it is reasonable to assume that we have now seen at least 56 million lives lost since Roe and are looking at topping 57 million sometime in the coming year.

We will, of course, revise our numbers accordingly when Guttmacher publishes figures from its latest survey. But unless the trajectory of those numbers wildly diverges from trends recently reported by the CDC, we expect things to remain within that 56 to 57 million range.

Of course, we all know that we are talking about more than just numbers or statistics. The blood of more than 56 million aborted babies represents an enormous stain on our national conscience and a heavy burden on our hearts.

CLICK LIKE IF YOURE PRO-LIFE!



But these numbers also show us that our efforts have not been in vain. As noted above, if our nation had continued at the rate of 1.6 million abortions a year we saw in 1990, our cumulative total would have been approaching 64 million by now.

That would translate into approximately 7 million more babies alive today than would have otherwise been the case. That is the equivalent to the number of abortions performed over a span of six to seven yearsliving human beings alive today because of you!

Of course the Movement has a long way to go to return full legal protection to unborn children. But never underestimate the importance of what you, grassroots pro-life America, are doing.

What you do makes a real difference.

LifeNews.com Note: Randall OBannon, Ph.D., is the director of education and research for the National Right to Life Committee. This column originally appeared at NRL News Today.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seems inappropriate. One true God and all.



SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma is the goddess of FFD&P.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I admire your commitment.



Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> let me give you a little insight into who I am. I ONLY get involved in matters of great importance to me whether for just one individual or many and once I find such an issue, I know no boundaries and stick to it 100%. By the way I have been an escort at Abortion Clinics for many years and shall do that even if I would need a wheelchair to get around. The wellbeing of women in any need touches my Heart. I always practice what I preach no matter what the obstacles. My intents are pure. It is that simple. I am also surrounded by VERY dedicated People of both Genders lending support to others regulary. They too practice what they preach. Huck


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agree.



TrueAthena said:


> Bullpucky.
> 
> I wasn't guessing I was using abductive and deductive reasoning.
> 
> ...


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Was this in response to anything or just a spontaneous outburst of adoration?


Go with strong sarcasm, o nugget of nacre. Everyone knows that KPG is the goddess of FFD&P, where one does not need a penis to rule.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> you can't be for real. Now you made the most disgusting statement ever. I truly believe that it is Satan you worhip and have been calling him by another name.


I've read that Satan can be very persuasive.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> So God gives us a commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And then uses us to perform murders for Him? That's quite some God you worship.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
> He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


Thanks for posting, I like your pastor. He speaks sense. He can thinks things through to determine the best outcome.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Any employee can use any IUD or birth control method they want. Hobby Lobby will pay for sixteen of them. The employee will need to pay for any of the other four themselves.


Since Mirena costs between $500 and $900, even at the low end a woman making the princely sum of $!5/hour would have to work 33 hours (more after taxes, but let's keep it simple) just to afford it. Nearly a full week's work.

So the obvious consequence is that she won't be able to afford it, and therefore is prevented from using it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
> He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


How lucky you are to be in his church. He sounds like a thoughtful person - with a good sense of humor.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I've read that Satan can be very persuasive.


More so than Joey, mater of may I?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd like your church. Your pastor is a good person.



Mountain Stitches said:


> Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
> He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope we all understand now.



Poor Purl said:


> Since Mirena costs between $500 and $900, even at the low end a woman making the princely sum of $!5/hour would have to work 33 hours (more after taxes, but let's keep it simple) just to afford it. Nearly a full week's work.
> 
> So the obvious consequence is that she won't be able to afford it, and therefore is prevented from using it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> More so than Joey, mater of may I?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Will you meet KPG? I don't like rodeos. They are cruel to the animals.


I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps you have different criteria.



lovethelake said:


> I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> no way, ever -- I did post some info on their thread which was ignored but I would not be surprised if she used it. - No acknowledgment - wondered whether politeness would win out -- it didn't.


Wow, pretty harsh. How do you know the information was ignored? What did you expect, gushing accolades thanking you for your information? In fact, your comment is very impolite in my opinion. One only grows dark resentments when they do something for someone and expect (or maybe silently demand) something in return. What ever happened to the notion that a person just does something nice because it is the right/nice thing to do without needing public acknowledgements? Because if one does not do that, their motives are questionable.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Perhaps you have different criteria.


Probably, I would never go to such a cruel or classless event. You get what you pay for.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


The Crusades were probably also "family friendly and patriotic." Each battle started with a prayer, though probably not the National Anthem.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wow, pretty harsh. How do you know the information was ignored? What did you expect, gushing accolades thanking you for your information? In fact, your comment is very impolite in my opinion. One only grows dark resentments when they do something for someone and expect (or maybe silently demand) something in return. What ever happened to the notion that a person just does something nice because it is the right/nice thing to do without needing public acknowledgements? Because if one does not do that, their motives are questionable.


What ever happened to the notions of politeness and respect for your elders?

There are responses between "gushing accolades" and total silence, and a simple Thank You even for unsolicited information would not have been out of place.

As for your accusation that Shirley is feeling "dark resentments" (which I doubt she is), it may simply stem from the fact that most of the D&P group is quick to accuse her of evil intentions when she says something they don't like but ignores her completely otherwise. Or it may be caused by other things - neither you nor I is her therapist, and neither of us should be attributing our own motives to her.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The Crusades were probably also "family friendly and patriotic." Each battle started with a prayer, though probably not the National Anthem.


 :twisted: :twisted:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
> He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


Actually Jewish laws adamantly value the mother's life first. Like the sounds of your church and your pastor.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


Singing those songs will certainly help the animals withstand the cruelty showered on them. Now that makes tons of sense.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> A good part of the Old Testament is History. God does not like sin. When God's chosen people followed him, things were good. Then when they sinned, when they thought themselves good in their own eyes. God disciplined them, including killing them and their children. But God did it. God also told them to go into a land and conquer it, destroying ALL of the people, including children and all animals. I do not question why God has done what is stated in the Old Testament.
> 
> Today people are taking it upon themselves, deciding who will die when an abortion is performed.


joeysomma
I suggest Therapy for you. You are way out.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


lovethelake
now we know, sing the National Anthem and pray a Cowboy's Prayer and anything in between is fair game. What reasoning. I really do not know if Animals are mistreated (I would resent that very much) but your statement is weird.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Postmenopausal women might still be made to feel guilty for things they did in the past, and if they're pro-choice they can be told they support murder of little babies.
> 
> If you think that by discussing her motives with her you'll get a truthful answer, then there's a bridge going past your abode that I could sell you. (Not the Brooklyn Bridge. Only the dead know Brooklyn.)


Maybe she is still at that stage of adolescence where she gets jollies from tossing the eww factor at people?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What ever happened to the notions of politeness and respect for your elders?
> 
> There are responses between "gushing accolades" and total silence, and a simple Thank You even for unsolicited information would not have been out of place.
> 
> As for your accusation that Shirley is feeling "dark resentments" (which I doubt she is), it may simply stem from the fact that most of the D&P group is quick to accuse her of evil intentions when she says something they don't like but ignores her completely otherwise. Or it may be caused by other things - neither you nor I is her therapist, and neither of us should be attributing our own motives to her.


Poor Purl
let's face it, Shirley is much too humane and intelligent for them to follow her and therefore the silence.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Given the position taken by some anti-abortion proponents that the life of a fetus or baby always has priority over the life of the mother, last night I asked our pastor if there is a Scriptural basis for that position. He said I should consider being re-baptized. His answer puzzled me so I asked why. His response was 'so he could hold me under until I came to my senses'.
> He said there is no verse anywhere in the Bible or any of the Jewish holy writings to justify an adamant decree of infant life being more valuable than the life of the mother. He said each time the tragic circumstance of whether to save the mother or child occurs, a decision guided by best medical protocol should be the determining factor.


MontainStitches
I like your Pastor.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I DO question what God has done/does/might do/will do. I have a living relationship with God and I want to keep it growing and deepening. Therefore I contemplate my God. I don't follow Him blindly, as if to say "I'm only following orders." He addresses my sins while I am here. When I am finally with Him, He will address them again.

God is love. You can have the so-called history of the Old Testament if you want to. I haven't and don't plan to repeat history. I am more interested in the living God and His New Testament, and the promise of Purgatory.


joeysomma said:


> A good part of the Old Testament is History. God does not like sin. When God's chosen people followed him, things were good. Then when they sinned, when they thought themselves good in their own eyes. God disciplined them, including killing them and their children. But God did it. God also told them to go into a land and conquer it, destroying ALL of the people, including children and all animals. I do not question why God has done what is stated in the Old Testament.
> 
> Today people are taking it upon themselves, deciding who will die when an abortion is performed.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Probably, I would never go to such a cruel or classless event. You get what you pay for.


What a classless remark. You can get a Disney-fied event that's family friendly, or an authentic rodeo where animals are treated cruelly because that's how the real thing has always been.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Singing those songs will certainly help the animals withstand the cruelty showered on them. Now that makes tons of sense.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What ever happened to the notions of politeness and respect for your elders?
> 
> There are responses between "gushing accolades" and total silence, and a simple Thank You even for unsolicited information would not have been out of place.
> 
> As for your accusation that Shirley is feeling "dark resentments" (which I doubt she is), it may simply stem from the fact that most of the D&P group is quick to accuse her of evil intentions when she says something they don't like but ignores her completely otherwise. Or it may be caused by other things - neither you nor I is her therapist, and neither of us should be attributing our own motives to her.


Purl I appreciate you defending me because of my age. HOwever, It isn't necessary -- I wish I had never mentioned my age as it seems to be of some importance as it has been mentioned 3 or 4 times as a reason that people shnould treat me better.

I would prefer my posts to be taken as written without my age coming into it. I still have all my wits about me and if age was a problem I would not have been able to organize 57 workshops from finding a teacher to organizing and helping with the classes. 95% of which was done on my own without help.

I know you are defending me -- but I prefer that age not be considered. I post what I feel and have always felt. I don't wish to be treated differently nor do I wish my age to have anything to do with people's opinion of me.

I thank you for caring though, and I mean it.

They are not hurting my feelings. I never mentioned it until 
SQM asked me if KPG was on holidays. Courtesy is not something I really expect from them and I haven't lost a second's sleep over her lack of politeness.

Love of the Lake is sarcastic to everyone, and would have been if I was 40. Joey as well, and with CB it is more personal. I don't go there any more and I don't worry about their posts. They don't like any of us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designr1234
remain as you are, you are SPECIAL. I admire your always gentle approach to nastiness. I have given up on trying to smooth things, it always gets lost. Some folks always have and always will live an unkind existence and they enjoy combat. Well, if they approve of their God killing children to discipline them, what can we expect.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Crusades were probably also "family friendly and patriotic." Each battle started with a prayer, though probably not the National Anthem.


Poor Purl
don't the Monsters who protest at Military Funerals pray and pray a lot?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Purl I appreciate you defending me because of my age. HOwever, It isn't necessary -- I wish I had never mentioned my age as it seems to be of some importance as it has been mentioned 3 or 4 times as a reason that people should treat me better.
> 
> I would prefer my posts to be taken as written without my age coming into it. I still have all my wits about me and if age was a problem I would not have been able to organize 57 workshops from finding a teacher to organizing and helping with the classes. 95% of which was done on my own without help.
> 
> ...


Shirley, you're absolutely right that your age has nothing to do with the treatment you - and all of us - deserve. I guess I got caught up in the commandment to honor your father and mother, which Jewish law extends to all older people. That's why I'm shocked when supposedly religious people treat their elders, and betters, so rudely.

I promise to stop bringing up your age, even though I'm so much younger - not. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> don't the Monsters who protest at Military Funerals pray and pray a lot?


Not so much any more, Huck, now that their leader has gone to the great Beyond, which I suspect is not heaven.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I've read that Satan can be very persuasive.


Some wit (don't remember whether it was Ambrose Bierce, Mark Twain, or someone else) once said he is the patron saint of lawyers.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Shirley, you're absolutely right that your age has nothing to do with the treatment you - and all of us - deserve. I guess I got caught up in the commandment to honor your father and mother, which Jewish law extends to all older people. That's why I'm shocked when supposedly religious people treat their elders, and betters, so rudely.
> 
> I promise to stop bringing up your age, even though I'm so much younger - not. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Poor Purple
I wish age would have much less importance. I see nastiness going in all directions of age. Just came from a thread: "Free Eye Surgery?" and some old person spoke very disrespectful about a young ER Dr. simply because the Dr. was young. Yeah she probably is resentful that someone so young is so educated. And so it goes.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wow, pretty harsh. How do you know the information was ignored? What did you expect, gushing accolades thanking you for your information? In fact, your comment is very impolite in my opinion. One only grows dark resentments when they do something for someone and expect (or maybe silently demand) something in return. What ever happened to the notion that a person just does something nice because it is the right/nice thing to do without needing public acknowledgements? Because if one does not do that, their motives are questionable.


At least she didn't lurk and pounce.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The Crusades were probably also "family friendly and patriotic." Each battle started with a prayer, though probably not the National Anthem.


You never know. When did "G-d Save our Gracious King/Queen" become the anthem of Britain?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Love of the Lake is sarcastic to everyone, and would have been if I was 40. Joey as well, and with CB it is more personal. I don't go there any more and I don't worry about their posts. They don't like any of us.


Not being liked by Mean Girls is a validation of who we are. We would be in big trouble if such unpleasant, single minded, and judgmental people did like us. I like who we are.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The "so-called history of the Old Testament" is *History.* God is Love and also He will discipline when people disobey him.


We need to remember that the Book was said to be dictated by G-d to Moses, who wrote it verbatim. It may well be the threats and punishments were Dad scaring the badness out of the kids to get them to behave. Sort of like the monsters under the bed. Conversely, it may have been a horror story written by the leaders of the day to keep the unwashed masses in line.

Without time travel we will never know.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What a classless remark. You can get a Disney-fied event that's family friendly, or an authentic rodeo where animals are treated cruelly because that's how the real thing has always been.


Oh please share where you saw a rodeo with such cruelty? I saw my rodeo in Dallas.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Shirley, you're absolutely right that your age has nothing to do with the treatment you - and all of us - deserve. I guess I got caught up in the commandment to honor your father and mother, which Jewish law extends to all older people. That's why I'm shocked when supposedly religious people treat their elders, and betters, so rudely.
> 
> I promise to stop bringing up your age, even though I'm so much younger - not. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


I wasn't upset Purl, but I feel I am on an even plain with all the rest of you. It is also something that is not that important to me although this past while with all the tests, I have to admit I have felt my age more than usual.

I understand and appreciate it - You are a very good friend and I appreciate it that you and I and a couple of others are 'geriatric citizens' - asking any of them to treat us nicely is wasted on them.

By the way, I have my consult with the cardiologist who ordered all the heart tests is on Aug. 8. but I was told if it was anything life threatening I would be informed after each test. I am not going to worry about it. Possibly a stent, change of diet or bypass surgery but also possibly nothing at all. I am just glad they are over. We have a couple for hubby - could be nothing could be serious. One step at a time.

By the way, Thanks for your kind words Huck. We are friends here and we cover each other's back. I am well aware that you and the rest cover mine.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

in a previous post I posted the following: quoted in part of my sentence.

"Love of the Lake is sarcastic to everyone, and would have been if I was 40. Joey as well" 

That was incorrect. I have not been personally attacked that I can remember by joey. 

I meant Solo who seems to have her knickers in a knot about my posts. Which really makes me lie awake and worry (NOT).


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Purl I appreciate you defending me because of my age. HOwever, It isn't necessary -- I wish I had never mentioned my age as it seems to be of some importance as it has been mentioned 3 or 4 times as a reason that people shnould treat me better.
> 
> I would prefer my posts to be taken as written without my age coming into it. I still have all my wits about me and if age was a problem I would not have been able to organize 57 workshops from finding a teacher to organizing and helping with the classes. 95% of which was done on my own without help.
> 
> ...


Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh please share where you saw a rodeo with such cruelty? I saw my rodeo in Dallas.


I wasn't the person who raised the question of cruelty to animals. I simply wanted to emphasize how "classless" (your word) your response to her was. I know you're never nasty (because you've said so), so maybe you meant something different when you wrote to SQM.

Anyway, if today's Dallas is your idea of where authentic rodeos originated, maybe you need to read up on your history.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purple
> I wish age would have much less importance. I see nastiness going in all directions of age. Just came from a thread: "Free Eye Surgery?" and some old person spoke very disrespectful about a young ER Dr. simply because the Dr. was young. Yeah she probably is resentful that someone so young is so educated. And so it goes.


It is the same as 'Old people" saying how much better life was when they were young.

Actually that is why I answered Neb's post which implied things were bright and shiny and sooo much better. There are two sides to the coin-- when I was young there was a lot of what she said but there was a dark underbelly then as there is now.

I often feel I can tell who is old and who is younger on the forums because of their attitude toward things. Sometimes there is a lot of real fondness by the young for older members and vise versa -- often there is a wide division. I do try not to allow myself to feel there is a division.. Not always successfully.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We need to remember that the Book was said to be dictated by G-d to Moses, who wrote it verbatim. It may well be the threats and punishments were Dad scaring the badness out of the kids to get them to behave. Sort of like the monsters under the bed. Conversely, it may have been a horror story written by the leaders of the day to keep the unwashed masses in line.
> 
> Without time travel we will never know.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


Couldn't you stop yourself from adding that last sentence to an otherwise reasonable message? Don't you even see how petty it makes you look? No wonder you genuine compliments as "back-door" compliments; you seem to have an ice splinter from the Snow Queen in your eye.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


You start all your posts with quite fair statements and then there is always that last sentence which is nasty, sarcastic and typically you. It seems, as I said, my post really got your knickers in a knot. So, I will be impolite and tell you that you are not someone I want anything to do with. Post away.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> in a previous post I posted the following: quoted in part of my sentence.
> 
> "Love of the Lake is sarcastic to everyone, and would have been if I was 40. Joey as well"
> 
> ...


My knickers are not in a knot, nor are they the least bit twisted. I just wish you would make up your mind whether you will stay or leave, without whining about it every month. Obviously you have decided to stay as you are posting, but the whining should be left to the 3 year olds.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> My knickers are not in a knot, nor are they the least bit twisted. I just wish you would make up your mind whether you will stay or leave, without whining about it every month. Obviously you have decided to stay as you are posting, but the whining should be left to the 3 year olds.


Why do you waste your important time on my poor little posts? weird indeed. I must get to you as you are obsessed with me staying. I will just because you want me too so badly. I might change my mind again in a few minutes though.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


When KPG does not respond, you are correct, she is not impolite. That happens when she does respond to those of us who do not fawn over her. She is among a small group of Mean Girls who make disparaging remarks to some of us then gets all righteous when she gets a response in kind.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> My knickers are not in a knot, nor are they the least bit twisted. I just wish you would make up your mind whether you will stay or leave, without whining about it every month. Obviously you have decided to stay as you are posting, but the whining should be left to the 3 year olds.


I see it has been. Certainly hope Shirley stays and continues contributing. Her remarks bespeak a good hearted and pleasant person. The whiny brats who snark at her do seem to have their diapers in a twist. Or maybe the safety pin is open.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Why do you waste your important time on my poor little posts? weird indeed. I must get to you as you are obsessed with me staying. I will just because you want me too so badly. I might change my mind again in a few minutes though.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I think *we* were bright and shiny in the so-called "good old days", not that the good old days were necessarily bright and shiny and sooo much better than the present.


Designer1234 said:


> It is the same as 'Old people" saying how much better life was when they were young.
> 
> Actually that is why I answered Neb's post which implied things were bright and shiny and sooo much better. There are two sides to the coin-- when I was young there was a lot of what she said but there was a dark underbelly then as there is now.
> 
> I often feel I can tell who is old and who is younger on the forums because of their attitude toward things. Sometimes there is a lot of real fondness by the young for older members and vise versa -- often there is a wide division. I do try not to allow myself to feel there is a division.. Not always successfully.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I see it has been. Certainly hope Shirley stays and continues contributing. Her remarks bespeak a good hearted and pleasant person. The whiny brats who snark at her do seem to have their diapers in a twist. Or maybe the safety pin is open.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well ladies, I will have to drop out of the fun times now.

I have to go grocery shopping and to the library. I will be back later today or tomorrow! Sorry Solo.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


No sarcasm in that response, right? NOT


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> More so than Joey, mater of may I?


Most definitely, shining sphere of the sea. He can get into your MIND!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Well ladies, I will have to drop out of the fun times now.
> 
> I have to go grocery shopping and to the library. I will be back later today or tomorrow! Sorry Solo.


Hold, on Shirley, I'll come with you, and then there's the farmers' market. Might be some yarn!
:-D :-D :-D


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Couldn't you stop yourself from adding that last sentence to an otherwise reasonable message? Don't you even see how petty it makes you look? No wonder you genuine compliments as "back-door" compliments; you seem to have an ice splinter from the Snow Queen in your eye.


Shoot, the snow queen is positively pulsating flames and kindness compared to LTL.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> My knickers are not in a knot, nor are they the least bit twisted. I just wish you would make up your mind whether you will stay or leave, without whining about it every month. Obviously you have decided to stay as you are posting, but the whining should be left to the 3 year olds.


So, maybe you don't wear knickers? That would explain alot. Especially about the open diaper pin, too.

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Some wit (don't remember whether it was Ambrose Bierce, Mark Twain, or someone else) once said he is the patron saint of lawyers.


That's a good one! One of my grade-school teachers told us that a lawyer was a robber with a briefcase.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This may surprise you, but I do not disagree with your pastor. There are circumstances where the child would need to be removed to save the mother's life. An ectopic pregnancy is a good example. That is totally different than an abortion.


Any interruption of a pregnancy is an abortion, J.

:-o :-o :-o :-o


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I have never found that to be the case. In fact I find them to be very family friendly and patriotic. Maybe you have been to a bad one. They always start with the National Anthem followed by the Cowboy's Prayer


Now, I've never heard that Ringling Bros. & Barnun & Bailey start their circuses with a prayer. Any correlation or comparison?
Besides not using bucking straps on elephants, mercifully. The hooks are bad enough.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Shoot, the snow queen is positively pulsating flames and kindness compared to LTL.
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll:


And the SQ is less insulting, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> So, maybe you don't wear knickers? That would explain alot. Especially about the open diaper pin, too.
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Any interruption of a pregnancy is an abortion, J.
> 
> :-o :-o :-o :-o


Except for "We interrupt this pregnancy to bring you a word from our Sponsor."


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong (AGAIN, as you almost always are)
> 
> Making the employees pay for this option *is equivalent to DENYING them this option*. (_Especially since Hobby Lobby jobs are mostly low paying jobs_) And to pretend otherwise IS A LIE. (Lying is a sin)
> 
> ...


The employee has a choice when signing up for the insurance. They know full well before they sign up what is in the plan. If they didn't bother to read the plan they have only themselves to blame. They can always opt out of HL coverage and get their own - that way they can be covered for all BC methods. They are not being forced to take the insurance. There have been no objections from HL employees, only non-employees.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think *we* were bright and shiny in the so-called "good old days", not that the good old days were necessarily bright and shiny and sooo much better than the present.


It didn't hurt that we were much less worldly wise. Most of us grew up in the post war era when there were jobs available and food rationing was done and over, so life was moving in a positive direction. Even many of the movies were uplifting, like the ones with Doris Day or Cary Grant.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The employee has a choice when signing up for the insurance. They know full well before they sign up what is in the plan. If they didn't bother to read the plan they have only themselves to blame. They can always opt out of HL coverage and get their own - that way they can be covered for all BC methods. They are not being forced to take the insurance. There have been no objections from HL employees, only non-employees.


People employed by HL are paid poorly and probably desperate for their jobs. They probably have reason to believe they would jeopardize their employment if they complained. Just as Bob Cratchit did not complain about Ebenezer Scrooge, an employer who would fit right in to today's 1%.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> If you read through the D&P thread you see that they've often made pacts to ignore "outsiders" when they post there, so the likelihood that she was purposefully ignored is pretty high.
> 
> Now maybe Lake has lost track of what was said privately and what was said openly on the board, but quite clearly it's a willful act to be unfriendly to members who are not accepted members of their cult.


Or their coven.


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