# FF Wearing Denim and Pearls #3



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So they were Socialists, then? So many on KP want Socialism here. Russia has already proved it doesn't work.
> There the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer. Do you want that here?


They were not just socialists. I don't know where people are getting that idea. We can't rewrite history - facts exist.

Worse than socialism, they identified themselves as Communists. See below:

1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (Russian: Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, tr. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) abbreviated to USSR (Russian: СССР, tr. SSSR) or the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз, tr. Sovetsky Soyuz),

WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY COMMUNIST STATE THAT EXISTED BETWEEN 1922 AND 1991, RULED AS A SINGLE-PARTY STATE BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY WITH MOSCOW AS IT CAPITAL." (my caps.)

Source: ^ Bridget O'Laughlin (1975) Marxist Approaches in Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology Vol. 4: pp. 34170 (October 1975) doi:10.1146/annurev.an.04.100175.002013.
William Roseberry (1997) Marx and Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology, Vol. 26: pp. 2546 (October 1997) doi:10.1146/annurev.anthro.26.1.25


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right on Joeysomma. People who like Socialism must be very young and not educated. If they had any idea about Socialism, they would not want it. It's true. History is forgotten and it repeats itself. I am sorry to have to read about people liking Socialism. Makes me gag.


Socialism is the promise of Utopia, but it's really a ponzi scheme, with fewer and fewer people supporter more and more people. It doesn't work.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Only in your little, overly controled, liberal world. I, personally, would not want to be limited to the heights my talents and knowledge can bring me which is what the liberals want. Well, unless, it's a liberal getting rich. Anybody want to tell me how obama got the money he's worth? Can't be from being a community organizer and the last I checked Senators don't make all that much. He's a crooked and slimy as they come.


We are all seeing right now what happens when the government tries to control everything. Look at Obamacare - false promises, absence of clear reasoning, no planning. Look at Benghazi - deception of the people, deliberate lying to the people for political gain, lack of conscience or honor by those in control.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> West Coast Kitty what a terrible way to have lived! Thanks for sharing this with us. Must bring back alot of painful memories for you. Makes it so real and not just a story in a book. Painful for me to read. We had Russian brothers come to our church about 20 years ago. They had gone thru some of the same kind of treatment. They had watched the government come in there home. They watched as their grandfather was gunned down in his bed because he wouldn't denounce he was a Christian. :{


I see it's brought back memories for you too CB. I haven't thought about these things for quite a while and it is hard but so much harder for the people who went thru it. I think it's so important to keep telling all the stories of repression so we remember it and learn from it. Very sad that those lessons are so easily forgotten.

I think the communists were afraid of faith because it gave people hope and made it harder to control them


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Since when are they interested in facts? They heard something decades ago and that's enough for a lifetime. (Actually, the obsessive hold on to a decades-old perception is a sign of dementia, especially when the patient keeps mixing that up with today's reality).


1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (Russian: Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, tr. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) abbreviated to USSR (Russian: СССР, tr. SSSR) or the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз, tr. Sovetsky Soyuz),

WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY COMMUNIST STATE THAT EXISTED BETWEEN 1922 AND 1991, RULED AS A SINGLE-PARTY STATE BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY WITH MOSCOW AS IT CAPITAL." (my caps.)

Source: ^ Bridget O'Laughlin (1975) Marxist Approaches in Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology Vol. 4: pp. 34170 (October 1975) doi:10.1146/annurev.an.04.100175.002013.
William Roseberry (1997) Marx and Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology, Vol. 26: pp. 2546 (October 1997) doi:10.1146/annurev.anthro.26.1.25


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> And this is how history gets re-written and misinterpreted. No, Seattle, they labeled themselves Communists. See below:
> 
> 1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (Russian: Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, tr. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) abbreviated to USSR (Russian: СССР, tr. SSSR) or the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз, tr. Sovetsky Soyuz),
> 
> ...


Yes, I read your post about the former Soviet Union the first time you made it. I readily acknowledge its truth. I was remarking, that no matter how the US defined the USSR, or how the USSR defined itself, it was in actual practice a dictatorship.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

off2knit said:


> My favorite Broadway show is 1776. It is an oldie but a goodie.


I have to admit I haven't heard/seen it. Will have to look it up


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Yes, I read your post about the former Soviet Union the first time you made it. I readily acknowledge its truth. I was remarking, that no matter how the US defined the USSR, or how the USSR defined itself, it was in actual practice a dictatorship.


Thanks - I understand.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Yarnie - look up kp user scottishlass - she usually posts a few jokes everyday sometimes "a tad naughty". Little Johnnie is one of her characters that throughs his teachers for a loop often making them faint


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just heard the news on CBS, talking about Bengazi, wow, and blaming Libyan leaders, what a surprise . But are talking about up coming hearings. Seem the main media is getting a wake up call. What took so long????





bonbf3 said:


> I'm so glad they're finally seeing what's going on.


Have you ever known our non-leader who would like to think he's in charge to not deflect blame for _anything_ to something or somebody else?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bon - the confusion might be coming from the broader definition of socialism which can range from the extreme of communism to social democracy practiced in left of centre governments. The USSR was a union of socialist states and communism was their form of government. 

The reason I like to call the USSR socialist is because it reminds me of how easy it is to slide from the nanny state of progressive socialism to the dictatorship of communism. Once we start giving up freedoms to the government, it's hard to get it back if the dictators get elected over the progressives


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Socialism is the promise of Utopia, but it's really a ponzi scheme, with fewer and fewer people supporter more and more people. It doesn't work.


If wishes were fishes the sea would be full.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" They called themselves Socialists. Therefore, they must be Socialists.


Good one, joeysomma. Does that mean if I call myself a monkey's uncle I MUST be one? Is it possible that the former Soviet Union gave itself a name that was a bit of a whitewash job?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Where in the world did you ever get that idea?
> 
> 1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (Russian: Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, tr. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) abbreviated to USSR (Russian: СССР, tr. SSSR) or the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз, tr. Sovetsky Soyuz),
> 
> WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY COMMUNIST STATE THAT EXISTED BETWEEN 1922 AND 1991, RULED AS A SINGLE-PARTY STATE BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY WITH MOSCOW AS ITS CAPITAL." (my caps.)


Once again we're talking at cross purposes. Whatever the Soviets chose to call themselves at various times, by their own accounts they never managed to achieve an economy based on the principles of communism. Under communism all the bureaucracy was supposed to wither away. Obviously this never happened, and even the most die-hard Soviet Marxists were aware of this.

And why are you so eager to slap a halo over Solzhenitsyn's head? The man was a great writer who suffered much under the Soviets, but he was also a Russian nationalist and an anti-Semite. He talked way too much about "World Jewry" and once called the US a province of Israel.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

West coast kitty, at one time, the Republican Party was considered the progressive party in this country. How can we remind people today of this fact? I'm not being facetious here. I really would like to see more Republicans remember their political heritage and use it as inspiration to reconstruct the GOP into a party that more widely represents people who don't feel the Democratic Party is the one for them. 

Heck, I'd like to see the US finally ditch the two party system so there could be more parties that represent more specific concepts and people instead of leaving us with two choices that don't and can't represent everyone. I think all too often, people pick one or the other of our two parties without really feeling they've found a good fit for themselves.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - look up kp user scottishlass - she usually posts a few jokes everyday sometimes "a tad naughty". Little Johnnie is one of her characters that throughs his teachers for a loop often making them faint


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" They called themselves Socialists. Therefore, they must be Socialists.


Joeysomma,

I'm sending my quote again, but without the Russian in between. It says, 
"
1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY COMMUNIST STATE THAT EXISTED BETWEEN 1922 AND 1991, RULED AS A SINGLE-PARTY STATE BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY WITH MOSCOW AS ITS CAPITAL." (my caps.)

Source: ^ Bridget O'Laughlin (1975) Marxist Approaches in Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology Vol. 4: pp. 34170 (October 1975) doi:10.1146/annurev.an.04.100175.002013.
William Roseberry (1997) Marx and Anthropology Annual Review of Anthropology, Vol. 26: pp. 2546 (October 1997) doi:10.1146/annurev.anthro.26.1.25

Following is a quote by a well know Russian author whose books were banned and who feared for his life due to his writings about Communism.

2. Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn (pron.: /soʊlʒəˈniːtsɨn/;[1] Russian: Алекса́ндр Иса́евич Солжени́цын, pronounced [ɐlʲɪˈksandr ɪˈsaɪvʲɪtɕ səlʐɨˈnʲitsɨn]; 11 December 1918  3 August 2008)[2] was a Russian writer, dissident and activist. He helped to raise global awareness of the gulag and the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system. While his writings were often suppressed, he wrote several books most notably The Gulag Archipelago and One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich, two of his best-known works.

One of Solzhenitsyn's most famous quotes:

I HAVE SPENT ALL MY LIFE UNDER A COMMUNIST REGIME (my caps),

and I will tell you that a society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed. But a society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy of man either. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Read more at http://www.ranker.com/list/a-list-of-famous-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn-quotes/reference#4zjlA...

bonbf3


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Have you ever known our non-leader who would like to think he's in charge to not deflect blame for _anything_ to something or somebody else?


Never have. That's how he operates.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> bon - the confusion might be coming from the broader definition of socialism which can range from the extreme of communism to social democracy practiced in left of centre governments. The USSR was a union of socialist states and communism was their form of government.
> 
> The reason I like to call the USSR socialist is because it reminds me of how easy it is to slide from the nanny state of progressive socialism to the dictatorship of communism. Once we start giving up freedoms to the government, it's hard to get it back if the dictators get elected over the progressives


Thanks - I understand what you're saying. And I agree - we have to be very careful.
Herman Cain said on the radio this morning that we should read 1984 by George Orwell - or see the movie. I'd recommend both. He read it and said it was chilling to see the similarities to what's happening today. I think I'll read it again - but it's going to be depressing, I'm sure. I read it before 1984 and NEVER in a million years thought we'd be so close to that, especially the way Americans have always treasured our freedom.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Good one, joeysomma. Does that mean if I call myself a monkey's uncle I MUST be one? Is it possible that the former Soviet Union gave itself a name that was a bit of a whitewash job?


On a sadder note, we called ourselves the United States of America, but we are far from united right now.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Once again we're talking at cross purposes. Whatever the Soviets chose to call themselves at various times, by their own accounts they never managed to achieve an economy based on the principles of communism. Under communism all the bureaucracy was supposed to wither away. Obviously this never happened, and even the most die-hard Soviet Marxists were aware of this.
> 
> And why are you so eager to slap a halo over Solzhenitsyn's head? The man was a great writer who suffered much under the Soviets, but he was also a Russian nationalist and an anti-Semite. He talked way too much about "World Jewry" and once called the US a province of Israel.


To answer your questions:

The U.S.S.R. was run by the Communist party. It was a Communist state. The fact that they failed doesn't negate the FACT that they were a Communist state. They were a FAILED Communist state.

I merely quote Solzhenitsyn; I did not slap a halo on him. 
I quoted Solzhenitsyn because he is a respected author who lived in Russia and said he lived under Communism.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I cannot remember not knowing how to sew. I've been sewing since I was three. I had my own custom dressmaking business when I was in 10th grade. My biggest love, though, is quilting. I have entered two quilts in our state fair and won ribbons with both. One even a blue!


Congrats on winning the ribbons. I have no patience for sewing. My mother was great at sewing. I would have failed Home Ec. if she didn't help me. I wanted to take wood working, but girls weren't allowed.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Congrats on winning the ribbons. I have no patience for sewing. My mother was great at sewing. I would have failed Home Ec. if she didn't help me. I wanted to take wood working, but girls weren't allowed.


Solowey - I also struggled with Home Ec. I had very little patience. Almost failed the pot holder!!!

Congratulations, Thumper! Is it possible to post pictures of your quilts? I love quilts. 
My mother sewed beautifully. I never did much. I knew my kids would interrupt me and I'd be grumpy. I did make a fancy dress for my daughter (when she was 7). It was very complicated, and I wanted to see if I could do it. To my amazement, it turned out fine and was very pretty. We were both very excited. That done, I put my sewing machine away for years until I gave it to my daughter.

Now that the stores don't carry any clothes that look good on me, I need a sewing machine again!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> So they were Socialists, then? So many on KP want Socialism here. Russia has already proved it doesn't work.
> There the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer. Do you want that here?


According to some people on these threads, it is already happening. It is staring them right in the face and they just can't/won't see it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Socialism is hatching from what I read on this site.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> According to some people on these threads, it is already happening. It is staring them right in the face and they just can't/won't see it.


Amen


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Socialism is hatching from what I read on this site.


Never give up!

Patrick Henry: "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death."

I could only hope to have that kind of courage.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Just heard that Obama told graduates at Ohio State to beware the people who warn of the dangers of big government.

WHAT?????? This is the president of the United States - the beacon for freedom in the world?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BO says what he NEEDS to say at the time to influence people. And they believe him!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Right on Joeysomma. People who like Socialism must be very young and not educated. If they had any idea about Socialism, they would not want it. It's true. History is forgotten and it repeats itself. I am sorry to have to read about people liking Socialism. Makes me gag.


I am neither very young nor uneducated. What is being touted on this site as socialism is speculation and misinformation.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> My daughter was an exchange student in Halle, Germany in 1994-95. It was less than 5 years after the wall came down. The father of the German family was educated to be a chemist. He had to be a chemist even if it affected his hands. I saw the hands 5 years after he stopped being a chemist, now in a free East Germany, he was an insurance salesman. His hands were dry, hard like callouses, and peeling. It took another 10 years before he found a chemist in Jordon that was able to find a formula for hand cream to heal his hands.
> 
> Because of his education, they did well financially, but at what price?
> 
> This is one example of a Socialist society.


This is a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. Not an example of socialism.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I would disagree with you - the word "socialism" does not have one standard definition. The Soviets certainly categorized themselves as socialists and I labelled them as repressive because how they treated people and I acknowledged that other socialist governments did not follow suit. The word communism was generally applied to socialist countries that had very harsh "people policies" as well as "economic and social policies". Socialism has also been used to refer to Hutterite colonies and kibbutz which again expands the definition of socialism. There are different concepts of socialism just as there are for democracy, autocracy, etc
> 
> Whether socialism is good or bad is a different matter and there will be a lot of opinions about it. IMO socialism works best where individuals willingly buy into at a community level (eg joining a commune). At a governing level, I believe socialism ultimately causes harm to the individual, society and economy


What is your opinion based on?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This is a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. Not an example of socialism.


That's your take on it. I don't see this example of someone living without personal freedom as "tugging at the emotions," certainly not any more than the many examples of people living in poverty.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> 1. "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (Russian: Сою́з Сове́тских Социалисти́ческих Респу́блик, tr. Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik) abbreviated to USSR (Russian: СССР, tr. SSSR) or the Soviet Union (Russian: Советский Союз, tr. Sovetsky Soyuz),
> 
> WAS A CONSTITUTIONALLY COMMUNIST STATE THAT EXISTED BETWEEN 1922 AND 1991, RULED AS A SINGLE-PARTY STATE BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY WITH MOSCOW AS IT CAPITAL." (my caps.)
> 
> ...


Thank you for proving my point. Repeatedly cutting and pasting the same stolen quote does not prove that you have a clue what you're saying. It does prove that you've graduated kindergarten. For that, I offer my congratulations. It's about time.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So they were Socialists, then? So many on KP want Socialism here. Russia has already proved it doesn't work.
> There the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer. Do you want that here?


No matter what you call the economic and political structure of Rusgia. It never was like ours. I think before the revolution it was called a landlord economy w/Czar, nobles, landlords, and serfs. Lenin proposed a Marxist form of capitalism, but that didn't get implemented as proposed. The economy after the revolution did not have people able to become landowners because the political leadership was a small group of tyrannical leaders determined that the landlord economy would not be reestablished. Marxism is commonly called communism, but what occurred in Russia was tyranny of the masses, who leaders of Russia or the USSR felt they must control. They did not want another peasant revolution.

The best description I have ever heard of the differences between Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism is:

Capitalism: A farmer owns his own home and land. He knows farming, animals, and his neighbors. He owns the animals he raises. He decides what to plant, adjusts his crops to meet his climate, his need for feed for stock, and to make the best profit based on what his customers (local restaurants and other businesses need and want). He raises stock with knowledge of when to breed more, when to cull the stock for sale, and which animals are most profitable to raise. He makes enough for his needs, buys more land with profits, and saves for his future.

Socialism: The farmer is disturbed to learn that his government is now socialist. A socialist government agent comes to him and tells him that it has been determined that he should no longer raise wheat. Corn is needed to make ethanol for his fellow citizens. Oh, and they tell him he must get rid of his cattle because they eat too much corn and wheat, and since wheat reduction has been determined necessary, the cattle must go. As he talks to the agent, he learns the official has never farmed himself, but he has been implementing this plan written by his boss, who he says was a former military general. The farmer complies. He grows corn. He butchers his cattle. A hailstorm comes along that reduces his crop, and the price of pork drops because there is now a glut of it on the market. Beef, however, disappears from most restaurants and supermarkets, and milk is no longer available for children. The farmer's profit is greatly reduced, and his children develop rickets due to no milk. So they can no longer help him on the farm. His hope of saving for the future is gone, but he struggles to keep the family farm that had been profitable for 200 years running.

Communism: The farmer learns that an overthrow of the Socialist government, which caused all the problems with their mismanagement, has caused the government to move to Communism. A military force comes to the farmer and tells him that his land is being collectivized. He no longer owns the land his great-great-grandfather settled 200 years ago. They sell all his stock except chickens, and decide to raise tomatoes, potatoes, and cabbage. The farmer must leave his farmstead, which is torn down, live in the barn, and the government spends millions building concrete bunkhouses for the 500 accountants, ex-military, and artists who will be moved there to work the land. Now the farmer hoes the garden, and feeds the chickens. The members of the commune form a committe to decide what actions should be taken on the land, but the farmer has to try to explain farming to people with soft hands and who fear angry birds. His wife is reassigned as a teacher in a city 150 miles away, but he is not allowed to leave since the farm needs his experience. It now takes a pass to travel, and his request is denied. His children begin suffering malnutrition. They become a drain on the commune. They are placed in holes the farmer is forced to dig and are left to die. The farmer has lost his land, his wife, and his children, but he is forced to sing the praises of the communist leader.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I will be very curious to see what happens on Wednesday. Many of us believe that the administration, Obama, and Hilary Clinton deliberately deceived the American people about events before, during, and after the Benghazi massacre.

If this proves to be true, how will those who have defended the people mentioned above react?

Will they be disappointed, even angry, at the people whom they supported and who have deceived them?

Will they continue to defend them?

Whatever the outcome of the Wednesday hearings, will those whose opinion has been proven correct be gracious in victory? Or will they gloat?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Solowey - I also struggled with Home Ec. I had very little patience. Almost failed the pot holder!!!
> 
> Congratulations, Thumper! Is it possible to post pictures of your quilts? I love quilts.
> My mother sewed beautifully. I never did much. I knew my kids would interrupt me and I'd be grumpy. I did make a fancy dress for my daughter (when she was 7). It was very complicated, and I wanted to see if I could do it. To my amazement, it turned out fine and was very pretty. We were both very excited. That done, I put my sewing machine away for years until I gave it to my daughter.
> ...


Here's a couple I finished recently. I will have to take some new pictures of the ones I won ribbons with. I thought I had some on my phone but I guess not.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I will be very curious to see what happens on Wednesday. Many of us believe that the administration, Obama, and Hilary Clinton deliberately deceived the American people about events before, during, and after the Benghazi massacre.
> 
> If this proves to be true, how will those who have defended the people mentioned above react?
> 
> ...


You'll be proven to be in error yet again and you'll be too dimwitted to notice. So what else is new?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> My father in law whom I loved dearly left Germany when still a young man. A family paid his way,and he promised when he got here would save and send for their daughter. He kept his promise. Learned English, and work, and married and had my Hubby. Grateful for that,thats how I got my honey.
> I had a talk with him about Hilter and what happen in Germany. Wanted to know why people not all, excepted this man, and would only do good for Germany. By the way he was not German he was born and raise in Austrria. He also manage to divide the Germans. Some loved him and some saw what was really going on.
> He told me that they were in a depression and Hilter promised them he would change that. Pop's said at first he did, but then things changed. That's when Pops left and listed it on his papers when entering this country as to he hated Hilter, still have his visa,and citizenship papers. He said it had started to turn bad when he left. So many who didn't have money couldn't leave, and some actual believed Hilter wanted only good for their country. Even when it was falling apart. Hilter also removed all the guns from the people. Starting to sound famillar. He did not just kill the Jewish race. He killed the handicap,any one who could not work,ect. Pop's was blessed one's whose family made it through the war with out lost of life. But even after war, Pop's would send money home as the country was in ruins after war. He did go home almost ever 3 or four years to see his family.
> It's sad to think that one man was given so much power and control, and that people followed so blindly and beleived him. It a scary thing.
> That is why My husband and I are so against socialism. I see one women fines it funny on another site. Do not think she has any idea, what she is talking about. I feel it is happening today.


With all respect to your father in law, what happened in Germany during Hitler's rise and rule was not socialism.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> No matter what you call the economic and political structure of Rusgia. It never was like ours. I think before the revolution it was called a landlord economy w/Czar, nobles, landlords, and serfs. Lenin proposed a Marxist form of capitalism, but that didn't get implemented as proposed. The economy after the revolution did not have people able to become landowners because the political leadership was a small group of tyrannical leaders determined that the landlord economy would not be reestablished. Marxism is commonly called communism, but what occurred in Russia was tyranny of the masses, who leaders of Russia or the USSR felt they must control. They did not want another peasant revolution.
> 
> The best description I have ever heard of the differences between Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism is:
> 
> ...


Where did you hear this definition?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you for proving my point. Repeatedly cutting and pasting the same stolen quote does not prove that you have a clue what you're saying. It does prove that you've graduated kindergarten. For that, I offer my congratulations. It's about time.


Got to you, didn't I? When you can't argue the facts, attack the person. But you missed. I know what I'm talking about. However, I do admit the mistake of responding to this entire topic. However, I couldn't let this absurd attempt at rewriting history go without rebuttal.

Relax. Listen to the grown-ups and learn.


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## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This is a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. Not an example of socialism.


How about all those Athletes in East Germany and Russia that had to use all kind of drugs to win the Medals for their country. You should see them now. All kind of health problems. Are those enough facts for you ?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you for proving my point. Repeatedly cutting and pasting the same stolen quote does not prove that you have a clue what you're saying. It does prove that you've graduated kindergarten. For that, I offer my congratulations. It's about time.


"Stolen quote?" Are you the same one who accused me of "slapping a halo?" Oh, that's right. You're all the same person.


----------



## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I will be very curious to see what happens on Wednesday. Many of us believe that the administration, Obama, and Hilary Clinton deliberately deceived the American people about events before, during, and after the Benghazi massacre.
> 
> If this proves to be true, how will those who have defended the people mentioned above react?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here's a couple I finished recently. I will have to take some new pictures of the ones I won ribbons with. I thought I had some on my phone but I guess not.


Thumper, they are beautiful! They must have taken a long time. It seems like such precision work. Thanks so much for posting!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> You'll be proven to be in error yet again and you'll be too dimwitted to notice. So what else is new?


That's what I mean. If you're proven right, will you be gracious in victory, or will you gloat? No need to wait to find out. You haven't even been proven right, and yet you gloat already! I guess you'd better do it now while you can.

By the way, is dimwitted considered a personal attack, or are you just trying to clarify the debate?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Here's a couple I finished recently. I will have to take some new pictures of the ones I won ribbons with. I thought I had some on my phone but I guess not.


They are beautiful. Thanks for sharing your pictures.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's your take on it. I don't see this example of someone living without personal freedom as "tugging at the emotions," certainly not any more than the many examples of people living in poverty.


Still not an example of socialism. Living without personal freedom is not an example of socialism. It is a sad and emotional story and it does tug at my or anyone's emotions. Feeling sad about a story does not make the story an example of socialism.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

elfiestouch said:


> How about all those Athletes in East Germany and Russia that had to use all kind of drugs to win the Medals for their country. You should see them now. All kind of health problems. Are those enough facts for you ?


No. Not examples of socialism.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Where did you hear this definition?


From a history professor.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

"communism |&#712;kämy&#601;&#716;niz&#601;m| (often Communism)
noun
a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. See also Marxism .


socialism |&#712;s&#333; sh &#601;&#716;liz&#601;m|
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."


Big questions: Who is in control? Who decides? Who sets it all up, and where do these people fit into the system? Or are these people somehow outside the system. If so, how do they meet their needs?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> From a history professor.


Very interesting. If you're challenged to prove your source further, like - professor's name, place of employment, salary, mother's maiden name, etc. - just ignore it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> No. Not examples of socialism.


Hitler was a fascist dictator. However, I can see how Yarnlady's example is related to socialism.

1. Fascism and socialism both require a strong central government that controls the economy.

2.Fascism also requires allegiance to a powerful leader.

Connections:

Socialism - It is possible that people who depend on the government to control the economy, provide all their needs, could easily transfer that dependence onto a human being, even one with evil intentions.

Fascism - Since we see such a strong allegiance in our country to Obama and fervent defense of all he says and does, it is reminiscent of the non-challenging allegiance to a strong leader which is a requirement of a fascist regime.

Therefore, stories about life under Hitler show us what can happen if dependence on government AND admiration for a leader become blind allegiance.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3,

They astound me with their dysfunction. I hope you are not upset by them. I have never seen anything like it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> bonbf3,
> 
> They astound me with their dysfunction. I hope you are not upset by them. I have never seen anything like it.


Thanks, Lukelucy.

They can't help it. We all have our limitations - some are just more eager to show theirs off.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3,

You are a nice person. Glad to "know" you.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Got to you, didn't I? When you can't argue the facts, attack the person. But you missed. I know what I'm talking about. However, I do admit the mistake of responding to this entire topic. However, I couldn't let this absurd attempt at rewriting history go without rebuttal.
> 
> Relax. Listen to the grown-ups and learn.


Lol! You have no idea how very far off you are. No, if you knew what you were saying it would would show. And it does not. Trust me on this, if nothing else.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> From a history professor.


Which school--Dubya University? That's the dumbest description I've ever seen.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> bonbf3,
> 
> You are a nice person. Glad to "know" you.


Thank you - the feeling is mutual. Some day we should all have a big celebration and meet each other in person!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Which school--Dubya University? That's the dumbest description I've ever seen.


Is "dumbest" an attack, or are you trying to clarify the debate? Or, perhaps, just show off your vast intellect. We know you're smart. So are we. Get over yourself.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm getting mean. Must go away. Try not to miss me, Freedom/Cheeky/Susan and cohorts.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm getting mean. Must go away. Try not to miss me, Freedom/Cheeky/Susan and cohorts.


But I miss you already, Flaky fudge bottom.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Is "dumbest" an attack, or are you trying to clarify the debate?


Neither--it's a rational assessment. As an intelligent woman you must know the good professor's descriptions is ludicrous. Who is s/he?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> From a history professor.


One history professor out of many history professors. The one you listened to obviously did not approve of socialism. Does not make him accurate.

Another one of our areas of disagreement.

Are you growing tomatoes this year?


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Neither--it's a rational assessment. As an intelligent woman you must know the good professor's descriptions is ludicrous. Who is s/he?


Oops. We're doing it again. Two laptops side by side, you think? Either way, we deserve extra credit for dexterity.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit Crazy, please give us the professor's name. I'd love to look the guy or gal up--I can't imagine what college or university would hire someone like this.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Oops. We're doing it again. Two laptops side by side, you think? Either way, we deserve extra credit for dexterity.


Guess so, I'm a pronounced lefty so you must be on the computer to the right.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Knit Crazy, please give us the professor's name. I'd love to look the guy or gal up--I can't imagine what college or university would hire someone like this.


I'm afraid I do have to believe it. Tenure is a fabulous thing. Sovietology collected some amazing personalities, many of whom had a terrible time adjusting to reality after the fall.

p.s. I'm clearly the male half of the relationship.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Knit Crazy, please give us the professor's name. I'd love to look the guy or gal up--I can't imagine what college or university would hire someone like this.


See this, Knitcrazy? Am I psychic, or what? Susan, you are so predictable!


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> See this, Knitcrazy? Am I psychic, or what? Susan, you are so predictable!


As are you! Let me guess. Acme School of Fine Ejukayshun, third floor over Bob's Auto Repare.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> I'm afraid I do have to believe it.


I absolutely do believe it myself--it's why I'm so keen to get the professor's name. I'd love to read whatever baloney he or she has published.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Don't trust the devil.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> See this, Knitcrazy? Am I psychic, or what? Susan, you are so predictable!


Maybe so, but in this case I'm genuinely curious. I don't doubt Knit Crazy's sincerity for a second--someone really did say this and I want to know who.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> "communism |ˈkämyəˌnizəm| (often Communism)
> noun
> a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. See also Marxism .
> 
> ...


There are two great examples of co operative businesses:

1 Mondragon Corporation in Basque area of Spain

2 The Evergreen Co Operative in Cleveland, Ohio

Both very good examples of modern socialist co operatives.

check them out and let's have a discussion based on something happening now.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Lol! You have no idea how very far off you are. No, if you knew what you were saying it would would show. And it does not. Trust me on this, if nothing else.


I wouldn't trust you on the time of day. If you were a seeing eye dog you'd lead your owner into a pole for the warped pleasure of seeing them bounce off of it and then, in your mind, justify blaming them.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I wouldn't trust you on the time of day. If you were a seeing eye dog you'd lead your owner into a pole for the warped pleasure of seeing them bounce off of it and then, in your mind, justify blaming them.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper, 
You are right on target. She'd throw her own mother under a bus.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> There are two great examples of co operative businesses:
> 
> 1 Mondragon Corporation in Basque area of Spain
> 
> ...


Checked them out. There still exists a hierarchy - someone is "managing" these cooperatives. This is great, as long as the managers make decisions that help those working under them. However, the managers still have the power - they are running the coop and those under them must trust their judgment. They - the managers, not the workers - control the system. The holding company "holds" the purse strings.

In a socialist government, there is still a person or group managing the system. Their decisions affect those who live "within" the system. Those within the system are the gears which keep the system chugging along; outside the system and not subject to its parameters are the managers, who set, tune, repair, and control the operation of those gears.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I wouldn't trust you on the time of day. If you were a seeing eye dog you'd lead your owner into a pole for the warped pleasure of seeing them bounce off of it and then, in your mind, justify blaming them.


And you'd drop yours down an open manhole--out of sheer stupidity.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> This is a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. Not an example of socialism.


Yes, peacegoddess, that's a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. It's just your forte to attack that kind of story like a rabid dog. Have you ever considered that your username expresses the opposite of what you really are? "WarDemoness" would be a far more accurate user name for you. You're no better than the worst of the righties, you're just coming from a different direction. If you're part of the baby boomer generation that led that good old altenative lifestyle, let me say I have met many a one like you. All pretence. all pretended experience of the ideals of the '60's and no experience whatsoever with the psychedelic drugs which created an entirely different point of view for people who did have extensive exprience with opening the doors of perception.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Checked them out. There still exists a hierarchy - someone is "managing" these cooperatives. This is great, as long as the managers make decisions that help those working under them. However, the managers still have the power - they are running the coop and those under them must trust their judgment. They - the managers, not the workers - control the system. The holding company "holds" the purse strings.
> 
> In a socialist government, there is still a person or group managing the system. Their decisions affect those who live "within" the system. Those within the system are the gears which keep the system chugging along; outside the system and not subject to its parameters are the managers, who set, tune, repair, and control the operation of those gears.


Evergreen Cooperatives

The Evergreen Cooperatives of Cleveland, Ohio are pioneering innovative models of job creation, wealth building, and sustainability. Evergreens employee-owned, for-profit companies are based locally and hire locally. They create meaningful green jobs and keep precious financial resources within the Greater University Circle neighborhoods. Worker-owners at Evergreen earn a living wage and build equity in the firms as owners of the business.

So what is your antagonism against socialist co operative economics?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Checked them out. There still exists a hierarchy - someone is "managing" these cooperatives. This is great, as long as the managers make decisions that help those working under them. However, the managers still have the power - they are running the coop and those under them must trust their judgment. They - the managers, not the workers - control the system.


True, but the managers are elected by the workers themselves and can be replaced at any time.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> With all respect to your father in law, what happened in Germany during Hitler's rise and rule was not socialism.


Wasn't Hitler that psychopathic, anti-semetic, pro-aryan (whatever the heck those are...)people who managed to murder at least 6 million human beings of inestimable worth while the rest of the world said they had no idea what he was up to? Or course the SOB wasn't a Socialist. He was a manipulator of words, among other things. Hmmm. Seems to me you're into manipulating words, too.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Yes, peacegoddess, that's a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. It's just your forte to attack that kind of story like a rabid dog. Have you ever considered that your username expresses the opposite of what you really are? "WarDemoness" would be a far more accurate user name for you. You're no better than the worst of the righties, you're just coming from a different direction. If you're part of the baby boomer generation that led that good old altenative lifestyle, let me say I have met many a one like you. All pretence. all pretended experience of the ideals of the '60's and no experience whatsoever with the psychedelic drugs which created an entirely different point of view for people who did have extensive exprience with opening the doors of perception.


Help me understand what it is you are presuming about me.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

The difference with those communes is that people have a choice to belong to that commune. They can leave if they do not like that life style. In a communist or socialistic country the citizens do not have a choice and it is almost impossible to leave

tick tock two days until Wednesday


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> tick tock two days until Wednesday


How nice to have a cuckoo around to help us keep track of the time. I'm sure you'll come bursting out of the clock bright and early Wednesday morning.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Help me understand what it is you are presuming about me.


I am saying what I think of you after reading many, many of your posts. I presume you believe you are a peacegoddess and disagree with your perception of yourself based on your behavior in the KP policitcal topics. I used to be polite but I have decided to give that up. I just happen to have started with you. I'm calling you out because it's high time someone did so.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I am saying what I think of you after reading many,any of your posts.I presume you believe you are a peacegoddess and disagree with your perception of yourself based on your behavior in the KP policitcal topics. I used to be polite but I have decided to give that up. I just happen to have started with you. I'm calling you out because it's high time someone did so.


Have fun.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here's a couple I finished recently. I will have to take some new pictures of the ones I won ribbons with. I thought I had some on my phone but I guess not.


Wow! The second is my fav! Great job thumper!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How nice to have a cuckoo around to help us keep track of the time. I'm sure you'll come bursting out of the clock bright and early Wednesday morning.


Susan bless your heart. Are you lost? This is the conservative site. Could you not have found a better picture than a cartoon for your avatar. I would love to have Mia Love or Thomas Sowell as my avatar. Bill Cosby is another good choice. Alan west. Clarence Thomas . Most favorite Condi Rice. See you could have picked one of them besides Tom and Jerry.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> That's what I mean. If you're proven right, will you be gracious in victory, or will you gloat? No need to wait to find out. You haven't even been proven right, and yet you gloat already! I guess you'd better do it now while you can.
> 
> By the way, is dimwitted considered a personal attack, or are you just trying to clarify the debate?


And score. Definitely hit a nerve. The fact is that I was proven right months ago. Have a lovely evening off in nowhere land, biddies. Watching you dig yourselves deeper has gotten far too boring to keep this up any longer.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Especially considering that the number one issue in Russia today is the lack of regulatory enforcement. Their ultimate dream. Dog eat dog with no one to stop the big guys. But when have facts ever mattered to this crew?


Freedom and Susan everything the right needed to know they learned many years ago. Now they are gladly giving away their freedom and they think it's a "liberal thing". It's very sad because if they get their way they won't know what hit them when they are herded together and put on trucks to be hauled away by those people who they thought would save them, the right wing conservatives, who even now are sucking the lifeblood out of them. They are the ones who haven't a clue about history and are doomed to repeat it, not the left.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Another lost soul. Can't get enough of us?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" They called themselves Socialists. Therefore, they must be Socialists.


Nice theory. What about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Evergreen Cooperatives
> 
> The Evergreen Cooperatives of Cleveland, Ohio are pioneering innovative models of job creation, wealth building, and sustainability. Evergreens employee-owned, for-profit companies are based locally and hire locally. They create meaningful green jobs and keep precious financial resources within the Greater University Circle neighborhoods. Worker-owners at Evergreen earn a living wage and build equity in the firms as owners of the business.
> 
> So what is your antagonism against socialist co operative economics?


Peacegoddess this is too scary for many. You are using "those words" that terrify many. They already have all the answers to all the questions and you are throwing ideas out here that cause a disturbance in the "force" they live in. I guess you could say you are rocking the boat.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
"The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" They called themselves Socialists. Therefore, they must be Socialists.

Nice theory. What about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

Anne

Anne you are just muddying the water by bringing in the facts. It's far to complex for people who want to live in a black and white world. I guess if you called yourself a tree, that would make it so according to joey's logic.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> "The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" They called themselves Socialists. Therefore, they must be Socialists.
> 
> Nice theory. What about the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?
> ...


Yikes, forgot where I was for a moment. Please accept my abject apologies. Merely wanted to point out that regimes who put "Democratic" or "Socialist" in their country's name are very rarely that.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Moth to a flame. Smoke follows beauty. No place to go but up.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> This is a story with few facts and lots of emotional tugging. Not an example of socialism.


It is a good example of the loss of power over your destiny that happens in a Socialist or Communist society. If the government has trained you, they own your future. This educated man could have changed his career if he chose under Capitalism. But big, socialist governments consider you a commodity, not a free man. To be honest, it happened under kingships in the past too. Big government means you lose your freedom as an individual.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The definitions you gave were great. I did not want to copy them again


I thought of my professors story like a parable. He never knew that farmer. But, he was an expert in Russian history. The holes that commune members dug actually happened in China during the Cultural Revolation. Millions starved because the leaders took the agricultural workers food to the cities to prevent rioting. Thus, they left the agricultural workers to starve.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit Crazy,

You are so right. And what happens is that motivation is gone. With that innovation, creativity, etc. goes out the window. Then the country just grinds away. The people are unhappy. Look at the Russian navy. They call on us to get their submarines out of trouble. They can't get their men out when they are underwater and cannot surface. 

Our country has the best there is. But, it looks like people are forgetting the past. We are doomed if they do - and they will.

Today is Monday. Obama is playing golf today - and it is a workday. What a creep.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Maybe not! First to have a co-operative, Articles of Incorporation are needed. That will define the officers and their duties and the time limit they will serve. How they are elected. Does each member get one vote?
> 
> It will also say how members can join the co-operative, what are the duties of each individual member, How the members can leave or be removed, and what will happen to the profits of the co-operative.
> 
> There are co-operatives all over the USA, I have been a member of several at one time or another, none of them have been any thing close to socialism.


Co-operatives are not Socialist governments. They are businesses. If they are businesses in this country, we still have the rule of law that prevents some abuse of power and an avenue for recourse if abuse of power occurs. In Russia after the revolution, there was a triumvirate that made political and economic decisions if I remember right. Election decisions were made depending on whether you wanted special preference for food, housing or a job. There was great graft and pressure to conform. Nonconformity meant you or a loved one disappeared. These leaders were often uneducated thugs who had risen to power during or after the revolution. Think of Stalin, who killed thousands if not millions of people by sending them to Siberia.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan bless your heart. Are you lost? This is the conservative site. Could you not have found a better picture than a cartoon for your avatar. I would love to have Mia Love or Thomas Sowell as my avatar. Bill Cosby is another good choice. Alan west. Clarence Thomas . Most favorite Condi Rice. See you could have picked one of them besides Tom and Jerry.


Ah, so you recognized "Mammy Two Shoes" from the old Tom and Jerry cartoons!
Frankly I have a great deal of sympathy and respect for Black actors and actresses who worked in 30s, 40s, and 50s. Folks like Butterfly McQueen (Prissy), Hattie McDaniel (Mammy), Lincoln Perry (Stepin Fetchit), and Lillian Perry (voice of Mammy Two Shoes) were forced into blatantly racist roles--alas, the only parts available to them in those days.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Evergreen Cooperatives
> 
> The Evergreen Cooperatives of Cleveland, Ohio are pioneering innovative models of job creation, wealth building, and sustainability. Evergreens employee-owned, for-profit companies are based locally and hire locally. They create meaningful green jobs and keep precious financial resources within the Greater University Circle neighborhoods. Worker-owners at Evergreen earn a living wage and build equity in the firms as owners of the business.
> 
> So what is your antagonism against socialist co operative economics?


As you describe it, I have no objection at all to Evergreen Cooperatives. It sounds great, and it sounds like they have good management.

A good company is not the same as a huge government of a huge country like the United States. Too much control in the hands of a few. One good example would be this: suppose the people I support and you oppose had that much control over the national "marketplace," etc. of the country. You'd probably oppose it then.

To tell the truth, I often think we already have a ruling class in this country. For example, all the exemptions from the Affordable Health Care plan that government people have managed to acquire for their "friends," and the exemption that Congress wants to get for themselves and their staff. It's not good enough for them, but it's good enough for us. That is reprehensible in my view.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> In East Germany, when the wall came down, people had to find their own jobs. They were so used to receiving a pay check whether or not they worked, Now they did not know how to work, that had not learned a skill. They had a very hard time changing to capitalism.
> 
> The unemployment rate in some countries like Slovakia was as high as 50% in some areas. Many would go to other countries to find work. Some I know went to Italy, Ireland and the US.
> 
> I fear that will happen here when the government hand outs either stop or are reduced.


I suspect we will have riots. The people expecting a dole never prepare for when it ends. Look at Greece. There has been much unrest in Spain and Portugal too. Italians are struggling, too. I feel for them. But their lives are controlled by the benefits they are getting. Losing them causes panic. That is a recipe for disaster. When you think your government will always take care of you, you lose the ability to take care of yourself.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> True, but the managers are elected by the workers themselves and can be replaced at any time.


Not really. Following is a list of the "managers," the people outside the "system" of employees who do the actual hands-on work of the Cooperative.

The CEO, unnamed because they are accepting applications and recommendations, reports to the Board of Directors. Here are the members of the Board of Directors, along with those who APPOINTED them:

James A. Ratner, Chairman.....appointed 2006 by the administrative judge, 8th Ohio District Court of Appeals

Frank C. Sullivan, Vice Chairman.........appointed 2004 by the Bank Trustees Committee

Charles P. Bolton................appointed 2004 by the chief judge, U. S. District Court, Northern District of Ohio

Inajo Davis Chappell.............appointed 2010 by the Board of Directors

Paul J. Dolan.................appointed 2008 by the Bank Trustees Committee

Hiroyuki Fujita..............appointed 2012 by the Board of Directors

Sally Gries...................appointed 2012 by the Bank Trustees Committees

Frederick R. Nance...............appointed 2005 by the BankTrustees Committee

Michael Petras Jr......................appointed 2012 by the Board of Directors

Sandra Pianalto....................appointed 2004 by the Board of Directors

Larry Pollock......................appointed 2012 by the Board of Directors

Beth Oldenburg Rankin........appointed 2011 by the presiding judge, Cuyahoga County Probate Court

The Rev. Dr. Stephen Rowan................appointed 2009 by the Bank Trustees Committee

Ratanjit S. Sondhe.................appointed 2008 by the Center for Community Solutions

Ernest L. Wilkerson Jr.............appointed 2011 by Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson

*I looked at their public info and haven't seen anything about managers being selected by employees. It's a huge corporation with grand facilities and lots of amenities. It isn't a local co-op by any means. It's big business with intentions of improving the city and providing a good work experience. This is fine. However, if management changes and there is "mission creep," the power is still in the hands of a relative few.*


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Evergreen Cooperatives
> 
> The Evergreen Cooperatives of Cleveland, Ohio are pioneering innovative models of job creation, wealth building, and sustainability. Evergreens employee-owned, for-profit companies are based locally and hire locally. They create meaningful green jobs and keep precious financial resources within the Greater University Circle neighborhoods. Worker-owners at Evergreen earn a living wage and build equity in the firms as owners of the business.
> 
> So what is your antagonism against socialist co operative economics?


Mondragon's economics show they are on a downturn. Evergreen is just. Cleveland help project that all taxpayers are paying for. No evidence of profit. I'd compare it to Solyndra in that we paid for the green movement. This is similar to the Greater Indianapolis initiative meant to improve the city. Lots of businesses underwrite it, but it is an association, not a business.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Mondragon's economics show they are on a downturn. Evergreen is just. Cleveland help project that all taxpayers are paying for. No evidence of profit. I'd compare it to Solyndra in that we paid for the green movement. This is similar to the Greater Indianapolis initiative meant to improve the city. Lots of businesses underwrite it, but it is an association, not a business.


Knit Crazy, good digging. I found out that the managers are not selected by the employees. It seems like a good-intentioned company, but not sound.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I suspect we will have riots. The people expecting a dole never prepare for when it ends. Look at Greece. There has been much unrest in Spain and Portugal too. Italians are struggling, too. I feel for them. But their lives are controlled by the benefits they are getting. Losing them causes panic. That is a recipe for disaster. When you think your government will always take care of you, you lose the ability to take care of yourself.


I agree, Knit.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How nice to have a cuckoo around to help us keep track of the time. I'm sure you'll come bursting out of the clock bright and early Wednesday morning.


You can set your watch by her, Susan. So predictable.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Comes here to call us names, bully us, tell us we are stupid. Tell us we don't know what we are talking about. Even if it is our personal history and it happened to us. Use the race card to try and get points. Blasepheme God. Tells us to kill babies, want take away our guns that we have to protect ourselves with. It reminds me of an a national geographic where the wild dogs of Africa chase down the Zebras in a gang style. I could go on but am talking to my daughter someone stole her debit card to buy condoms and a phone. So will have to come back later to finish.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Comes here to call us names, bully us, tell us we are stupid. Tell us we don't know what we are talking about. Even if it is our personal history and it happened to us. Use the race card to try and get points. Blasepheme God. Tells us to kill babies, want take away our guns that we have to protect ourselves with. It reminds me of an a national geographic where the wild dogs of Africa chase down the Zebras in a gang style. I could go on but am talking to my daughter someone stole her debit card to buy condoms and a phone. So will have to come back later to finish.


But you ARE stupid and you don't know what you're talking about. And your daughter can buy her own condoms without your help.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Comes here to call us names, bully us, tell us we are stupid. Tell us we don't know what we are talking about. Even if it is our personal history and it happened to us. Use the race card to try and get points. Blasepheme God. Tells us to kill babies, want take away our guns that we have to protect ourselves with. It reminds me of an a national geographic where the wild dogs of Africa chase down the Zebras in a gang style. I could go on but am talking to my daughter someone stole her debit card to buy condoms and a phone. So will have to come back later to finish.


Sounds like another cuckoo just popped out of the GOP clock.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds like another cuckoo just popped out of the GOP clock.


Bless your heart Susan. YAGTH sweetie. You are lost again .This is the site for the conservatives. All that spinning has gotten you turned around again.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country, they are so pathetic. They have no lives. Can you imagine having so much time to waste that they have to post on this thread because they have become so inconsequential on their sites that need to try to stir things up here. How crude some of their responses have become due to their frustration over their lack of importance and are have resorted to filth to get attention.

Have a few more rows on my cowl. Will spend about 30 min. on it then off to bed. Have a delightful night my friends.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Country, they are so pathetic. They have no lives. Can you imagine having so much time to waste that they have to post on this thread because they have become so inconsequential on their sites that need to try to stir things up here. How crude some of their responses have become due to their frustration over their lack of importance and are have resorted to filth to get attention.
> 
> Have a few more rows on my cowl. Will spend about 30 min. on it then off to bed. Have a delightful night my friends.


Yes offto it is sad. Thank you , you too. Nighty night.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes offto it is sad. Thank you , you too. Nighty night.


Yes, nighty-night--don't forget to wind yourself up.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> But you ARE stupid and you don't know what you're talking about. And your daughter can buy her own condoms without your help.


no you are the one who doesn't know how to relate to anyone but yourself, what a foolish old women with an empty life you must have. Your soul is empty and you are full of haterd and you have to use it on people you don't even know. Your life must be awful, but then who cares. you will just go on to abuse someone else if it wasn't here it would be some where else to some other person . What a waste of what is the last years of your life. May my God not yours help you lady, because Hell is an awful place to spend eternity.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, nighty-night--don't forget to wind yourself up.


Try once to tell the truth and be nice. I can't see you doing it. But just try. FBI CIA


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Try once to tell the truth and be nice. I can't see you doing it. But just try. FBI CIA


Mumbling to yourself again, Yarnie? Oh yes, you're the little bird who needs her mechanism adjusted.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Thumper - your quilts are absolutely gorgeous


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Try once to tell the truth and be nice. I can't see you doing it. But just try. FBI CIA


Sorry for winding them up. Isn't it funny how they get frustrated with not having facts and details correct. Frustration breeds anger. Angry people don't make sensible debaters. They are losing it. Let's pray they get some sleep and sanity returns.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Comes here to call us names, bully us, tell us we are stupid. Tell us we don't know what we are talking about. Even if it is our personal history and it happened to us. Use the race card to try and get points. Blasepheme God. Tells us to kill babies, want take away our guns that we have to protect ourselves with. It reminds me of an a national geographic where the wild dogs of Africa chase down the Zebras in a gang style. I could go on but am talking to my daughter someone stole her debit card to buy condoms and a phone. So will have to come back later to finish.


Sorry about the debit card. It's a pain having to deal with that.

As for those children who come on here to annoy - we must go back to our former response - ignore. So what if they're wrong? Ignore. They either don't understand our explanations or have closed their minds. Let's converse with those who are interested and are able to understand our lofty selves!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> But you ARE stupid and you don't know what you're talking about. And your daughter can buy her own condoms without your help.


"You are stupid?" Come on, Freedom - elementary school is over. No more na-na-uh-boo-boo or poopy-head, either.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Country, they are so pathetic. They have no lives. Can you imagine having so much time to waste that they have to post on this thread because they have become so inconsequential on their sites that need to try to stir things up here. How crude some of their responses have become due to their frustration over their lack of importance and are have resorted to filth to get attention.
> 
> Have a few more rows on my cowl. Will spend about 30 min. on it then off to bed. Have a delightful night my friends.


Same to you - sleep well.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Sorry about the debit card. It's a pain having to deal with that.
> 
> As for those children who come on here to annoy - we must go back to our former response - ignore. So what if they're wrong? Ignore. They either don't understand our explanations or have closed their minds. Let's converse with those who are interested and are able to understand our lofty selves!


I agree. I have too much to do to keep trying to educate them. Back to my knitting.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mumbling to yourself again, Yarnie? Oh yes, you're the little bird who needs her mechanism adjusted.


Susan, that's vicious and cruel. Don't you have any internal censor at all? You and Joe Biden.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mumbling to yourself again, Yarnie? Oh yes, you're the little bird who needs her mechanism adjusted.


What you fail to realize, Susan, is that when Yarnlady speaks, we listen.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries, insulting people only turns them off. Having been computerless and away from these political topics for a few days made me a very grumpy participant today. Some things just seemed so clearly wrong-headed I couldn't keep my mouth shut, all in vain.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> West coast kitty, at one time, the Republican Party was considered the progressive party in this country. How can we remind people today of this fact? I'm not being facetious here. I really would like to see more Republicans remember their political heritage and use it as inspiration to reconstruct the GOP into a party that more widely represents people who don't feel the Democratic Party is the one for them.
> 
> Heck, I'd like to see the US finally ditch the two party system so there could be more parties that represent more specific concepts and people instead of leaving us with two choices that don't and can't represent everyone. I think all too often, people pick one or the other of our two parties without really feeling they've found a good fit for themselves.


I'm a history buff but my knowledge of the history of US political parties is superficial at best so I'm not going to put my feet in my mouth!

I will say that Canadians were not able to get a centre-right government until the 2 parties on that side merged which finally stopped the vote splitting that kept the Liberals in power for so many long, long years.

Canada does have serveral parties which sometimes splits the vote enough to create a minority government, which can create problems. Although we have several parties, it still "first past the post" in each constituency, thankfully we don't have proportional representation. I'm not sure if that is what you are advocating, but I'm opposed to it because I feel it is an extremely ineffective, unstable form of government that gives most of the power for legislation to small fringe parties who carry the balance of power


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> What is your opinion based on?


I said "At a governing level, I believe socialism ultimately causes harm to the individual, society and economy" because:
1. my extened family and friends in USSR, E. Ger., Poland, Czech lost many personal freedoms, their health & well being suffered, their economy was so strictly regulated that adult, married children often had to live with their parents for a decade or more before obtaining their own housing

2. in Canada, Trudeau's Liberal government (with the support of the socialist NDP) drastically increased the size of federal govt; interfered in provincial responsibilities, resulting in overlapping levels of bureaucracy; played off regional differences and devasted the economy of my province of Alberta

3. my current province of BC ended 8 years of NDP govt in 2001 with massive debt, govt corruption scandals, many people and businesses leaving the province and such onerous bureaucracy that the govt even had input into the layout and interior design of restaurants

4. Zimbabwe, China, and others expropriated property, killed, maimed and imprisoned any suspected of opposition, destroyed farming, industry and education

This is already probably too long, but I will add that I acknowledge that many wrongs have also been committed by other forms of govt.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> It is a good example of the loss of power over your destiny that happens in a Socialist or Communist society. If the government has trained you, they own your future. This educated man could have changed his career if he chose under Capitalism. But big, socialist governments consider you a commodity, not a free man. To be honest, it happened under kingships in the past too. Big government means you lose your freedom as an individual.


You have summed it up very well - all forms of govt mean giving up some freedoms to maintain a safe and lawful society. The larger and/or more dictatorial the govt, the higher the cost in loss of freedom.

It makes me angry that so many govts have grown so large that they don't even know how much they've spent or where, that they can continually increase their pay, perks & benefits, that they can exempt themselves from the rules ordinary citizens must follow, that they talk about the "honour" of serving their constituents when running for election and quickly begin serving their own interests after election and before the next election try to buy us with our own money yet again


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Sorry about the debit card. It's a pain having to deal with that.
> 
> As for those children who come on here to annoy - we must go back to our former response - ignore. So what if they're wrong? Ignore. They either don't understand our explanations or have closed their minds. Let's converse with those who are interested and are able to understand our lofty selves!


Bon - they make the terrible two's look good. All these claims of intellectual and moral superiority and all they can offer are rude and trite digs


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit Crazy,

I agree. We are giving the people too much. They will become very "disgruntled" when it is taken away. Then the trouble starts. If we head down the road that our President is taking us, then we will face the music.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

The ladies of the left posted pictures of black women as a joke to put another lady down, then went on to say they would post black women they admired. 

What I considerd the lowest form of a use of the Black women who have done so much to change this world. 

Did any of you actual think what of what you were doing?

why did you not mention the names of the famous Black women who were not in entertainment, How about Marie Maynard Daly , Mae Jemison, and many others that you could of mention instead of using pictures to make fun of another womens words. 

You want to know the Black women I admire the most, and I don't care if you don't. The women that gets up every day and see to her family, that works hard to make a difference in others lives, that isn't afraid to use her voice to see something wrong and change it. One that isn't famous or recongize for what she does every day to keep going. 

And the cartoon half is not funny, you may want to change it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm a history buff but my knowledge of the history of US political parties is superficial at best so I'm not going to put my feet in my mouth!
> 
> I will say that Canadians were not able to get a centre-right government until the 2 parties on that side merged which finally stopped the vote splitting that kept the Liberals in power for so many long, long years.
> 
> Canada does have serveral parties which sometimes splits the vote enough to create a minority government, which can create problems. Although we have several parties, it still "first past the post" in each constituency, thankfully we don't have proportional representation. I'm not sure if that is what you are advocating, but I'm opposed to it because I feel it is an extremely ineffective, unstable form of government that gives most of the power for legislation to small fringe parties who carry the balance of power


Thank you for telling us of your experience. We've seen this happen here on a smaller scale, but we're still a two-party system. Unfortunately, both parties leave a LOT to be desired.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I said "At a governing level, I believe socialism ultimately causes harm to the individual, society and economy" because:
> 1. my extened family and friends in USSR, E. Ger., Poland, Czech lost many personal freedoms, their health & well being suffered, their economy was so strictly regulated that adult, married children often had to live with their parents for a decade or more before obtaining their own housing
> 
> 2. in Canada, Trudeau's Liberal government (with the support of the socialist NDP) drastically increased the size of federal govt; interfered in provincial responsibilities, resulting in overlapping levels of bureaucracy; played off regional differences and devasted the economy of my province of Alberta
> ...


It was very nice of you to provide this very enlightening and valuable information. I hope we can learn from the experience of others, like you. Thanks for going to the trouble to do this, West Coast Kitty!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, how's this? The one frame in which the animators bothered to give Mammy Two Shoes a face. Like most African-Americans of the period she was viewed as a set of arms and legs whose sole function was to serve the white quality.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You have summed it up very well - all forms of govt mean giving up some freedoms to maintain a safe and lawful society. The larger and/or more dictatorial the govt, the higher the cost in loss of freedom.
> 
> It makes me angry that so many govts have grown so large that they don't even know how much they've spent or where, that they can continually increase their pay, perks & benefits, that they can exempt themselves from the rules ordinary citizens must follow, that they talk about the "honour" of serving their constituents when running for election and quickly begin serving their own interests after election and before the next election try to buy us with our own money yet again


When I was a little girl - long years ago - my father used to quote "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." And yet, we continue to give more and more power to politicians even after we see the corruption. Where are the thinkers? Where is the common sense? Where are the statesmen, the men and women of honor who can lead?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bon - they make the terrible two's look good. All these claims of intellectual and moral superiority and all they can offer are rude and trite digs


So right.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Knit Crazy,
> 
> I agree. We are giving the people too much. They will become very "disgruntled" when it is taken away. Then the trouble starts. If we head down the road that our President is taking us, then we will face the music.


I agree with you.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The younger generation did not learn their history or have forgotten. So sad. History repeats itself.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> The ladies of the left posted pictures of black women as a joke to put another lady down, then went on to say they would post black women they admired.
> 
> What I considerd the lowest form of a use of the Black women who have done so much to change this world.
> 
> ...


Thank you again, Yarnie!

Rosa Parks, Alveda King (niece of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.)


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The younger generation did not learn their history or have forgotten. So sad. History repeats itself.


How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.


It's outrageous. The only thing we can do is watch the newspapers. When they say the local school system wants input on materials, go and skim those history books. Then give them input. Even that might be a waste of time because often input is asked for and discarded.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Boo! Ingried and I are watching.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.


Examples, please.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Examples, please.


Find your own. I'm not your research assistant.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

If you read correctly, I said "or" have forgotten. There was no mistake on my part. 

There is teaching going on (in some cases not well). It is written that our students know very little history. Ask them a simple historical question and the cannot answer. That fact is widely known. How can students make informed choices as adults when they don't know what history has dictated?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper,
I love your answer. Can I use that myself?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> I love your answer. Can I use that myself?


Be my guest. And you know, as well as I do, that she would simply negate anything I would put out there anyway. I'm not going to waste my time.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Thumper beautiful quilts, are you making one for new grandbaby? What are you knitting for the little one???


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Find your own. I'm not your research assistant.


Perfect, Thumper!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> When I was a little girl - long years ago - my father used to quote "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." And yet, we continue to give more and more power to politicians even after we see the corruption. Where are the thinkers? Where is the common sense? Where are the statesmen, the men and women of honor who can lead?


Bon - those are exactly the questions I think people in our countries should be asking their politicians and each other!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> When I was a little girl - long years ago - my father used to quote "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." And yet, we continue to give more and more power to politicians even after we see the corruption. Where are the thinkers? Where is the common sense? Where are the statesmen, the men and women of honor who can lead?


Those people aren't rich enough to run for public office.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Those people aren't rich enough to run for public office.


And, the candidates who are smart are considered "elite" or "eggheads." The general public wants to vote for "regular people" like Dubya or Palin or Bachmann.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Thumper beautiful quilts, are you making one for new grandbaby? What are you knitting for the little one???


Thank you! I have two baby quilts that were made quite a while ago and stored away. She will also get the baby blankets that our son had when he was a baby. I have only a couple of rows left on a baby blanket I'm knitting. There are several pairs of booties, some smocked and embroidered daygowns and bonnets (for both boy and girl), a couple of baby sweaters already completed...that's all I can think of right now. I can post some pictures later on tonight if you'd like. I would have to take some pictures.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Palin would not be on my list to vote for.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.


That is a fact. Plus don't teach history anymore either.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Palin would not be on my list to vote for.


We agree again Lukelucy! That's twice!
And now I'm gone from this thread. I had to read several pages just to see what was going on.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yayyyyy. We agree!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Thumper I hope you have a large sewing room for all those machines and quilts to work on.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> If you read correctly, I said "or" have forgotten. There was no mistake on my part.
> 
> There is teaching going on (in some cases not well). It is written that our students know very little history. Ask them a simple historical question and the cannot answer. That fact is widely known. How can students make informed choices as adults when they don't know what history has dictated?


What grade did you teach?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thank you! I have two baby quilts that were made quite a while ago and stored away. She will also get the baby blankets that our son had when he was a baby. I have only a couple of rows left on a baby blanket I'm knitting. There are several pairs of booties, some smocked and embroidered daygowns and bonnets (for both boy and girl), a couple of baby sweaters already completed...that's all I can think of right now. I can post some pictures later on tonight if you'd like. I would have to take some pictures.


That would be nice love to see the pictures. Nothing like being prepared for a new gandbaby, think that baby is going to be a fashion hit. :thumbup:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Hello friends

Raining like the devil around here. So the satellite is spotty at times. Oh well, rather have spotty satellite then live in Northern Virginia's Obamaworld.

I would like to say that I admire those women in Cleveland that kept their faith, hope and courage alive to survive that 10 year horror. They are women that should be the role models for our daughters and granddaughters, not the Hilary's and Susan Rice's of the world that lie to obtain/keep power. They are an example of how faith and prayer does work


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Find your own. I'm not your research assistant.


Brilliant answer. Does that give us all carte blanche to post any old tripe with no back-up of any kind?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Thank you! I have two baby quilts that were made quite a while ago and stored away. She will also get the baby blankets that our son had when he was a baby. I have only a couple of rows left on a baby blanket I'm knitting. There are several pairs of booties, some smocked and embroidered daygowns and bonnets (for both boy and girl), a couple of baby sweaters already completed...that's all I can think of right now. I can post some pictures later on tonight if you'd like. I would have to take some pictures.


Would love to see the pics. Baby is definitely going to have a fantastic wardrobe.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thumper I hope you have a large sewing room for all those machines and quilts to work on.


LOL! I have my sewing room and then I have annexed the boys' rooms as they move out. The better to discourage moving back in ;o)

Quilting machine is in the basement. Some of my yarn stash is in the basement in tubs. My main storage room is in one of the second story rooms and my sewing room is on the main floor. I have spread myself out but, unfortunately, it's not thinly. I haven't been buying anything because I want to use up the stash I have.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Doesn't like their own backyard.<whispering>


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> LOL! I have my sewing room and then I have annexed the boys' rooms as they move out. The better to discourage moving back in ;o)
> 
> Quilting machine is in the basement. Some of my yarn stash is in the basement in tubs. My main storage room is in one of the second story rooms and my sewing room is on the main floor. I have spread myself out but, unfortunately, it's not thinly. I haven't been buying anything because I want to use up the stash I have.


Well you go girrrrl. :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Be my guest. And you know, as well as I do, that she would simply negate anything I would put out there anyway.


Not at all--in fact I agree with you, to some degree. Over the years history has been written and rewritten as we've become more aware of the contributions of women, the working classes, and people of color. Where we differ is that I feel that all viewpoints or "versions" have a certain validity. The difficulty lies in how much material can be covered in roughly 1146 instructional hours per year.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Likes our playground better.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Brilliant answer. Does that give us all carte blanche to post any old tripe with no back-up of any kind?


As I stated in a response anything I posted would have been negated. Futility at it's finest.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not at all--in fact I agree with you, to some degree. Over the years history has been written and rewritten as we've become more aware of the contributions of women, the working classes, and people of color. Where we differ is that I feel that all viewpoints or "versions" have a certain validity. The difficulty lies in how much material can be covered in roughly 1146 instructional hours per year.


Historical truth is not always 'pretty'. However, just because some might find it distasteful does not detract from the fact that it happened. It should be presented in all it's ugliness and not cleansed by pc correctness which is what they are attempting to do.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Can't resist temptation to disrupt. No self control.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.


The Dept of Ed does not write text books.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> As I stated in a response anything I posted would have been negated. Futility at it's finest.


So why on earth do we bother? I've read hundreds of pages here, and occasionally dipped my toe in, but it's getting depressing now. I wish there were some way of discussing important topics without the endless knee-jerk reactions to certain words, mean-spiritedness and posts that people obviously think are really smart but really aren't. I admit that I'm not innocent either, but it doesn't get us anywhere and I am trying to do better.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Historical truth is not always 'pretty'. However, just because some might find it distasteful does not detract from the fact that it happened. It should be presented in all it's ugliness and not cleansed by pc correctness which is what they are attempting to do.


Absolutely--but I've always been under the impression that the PC forces have had the effect of bringing certain unpleasant but truthful details to light. It's uncomfortable to acknowledge that many of our glorious Founding Fathers were not exempt from prevailing notions of racial superiority, or that the US Army engaged in a primitive form of germ warfare by giving the Native Americans blankets used by smallpox victims. This unsavory but true information is part of my son's revised fifth grade history text--it certainly wasn't mentioned when I was in school.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The Dept of Ed does not write text books.


So what. What does that have to do with the issue being discussed?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> So what. What does that have to do with the issue being discussed?


thumper5316 wrote:
How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.

That is a fact. Plus don't teach history anymore either.

It was an informative post on the above comments.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely--but I've always been under the impression that the PC forces have had the effect of bringing certain unpleasant but truthful details to light. It's uncomfortable to acknowledge that many of our glorious Founding Fathers were not exempt from prevailing notions of racial superiority, or that the US Army engaged in a primitive form of germ warfare by giving the Native Americans blankets used by smallpox victims. This unsavory but true information is part of my son's revised fifth grade history text--it certainly wasn't mentioned when I was in school.


I agree with you. I'm of the opinion that any colonization throughout history has had any number of 'sides'. There is only one indisputable truth. There were always those that lost and those that won. It's the lopsidedness (if that's not a real word, don't blame me...it fits) that is happening today. It's the opposite swing of the pendulum that's being presented now. It doesn't make the history any more factual than when it was taught using the other view of facts. I'd like to see a little more even presentation so that students can make informed decisions.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> thumper5316 wrote:
> How can they forget something they've never been taught? Also, the Department of 'Education' (I use the term loosely) has re-written the history books by suppressing historical truths they consider non-pc.
> 
> That is a fact. Plus don't teach history anymore either.
> ...


Now I see reference for your comment. Let me clarify. They may not write the books. However, they are the ones approving the books that are to be used in the classrooms. The new materials being approved for classroom use are nothing more than the other side of the coin. It's still biased.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm a history buff but my knowledge of the history of US political parties is superficial at best so I'm not going to put my feet in my mouth!
> 
> I will say that Canadians were not able to get a centre-right government until the 2 parties on that side merged which finally stopped the vote splitting that kept the Liberals in power for so many long, long years.
> 
> Canada does have serveral parties which sometimes splits the vote enough to create a minority government, which can create problems. Although we have several parties, it still "first past the post" in each constituency, thankfully we don't have proportional representation. I'm not sure if that is what you are advocating, but I'm opposed to it because I feel it is an extremely ineffective, unstable form of government that gives most of the power for legislation to small fringe parties who carry the balance of power


I remember at some point in the latish 1990's that the Party Quebecois was the loyal minority. I hope I've got that right. My memory just says that party ended up in a rather uncomfortable position.

I don't advocate proportional representation at all, for the reasons you state. I do think we might be better off if we opened up a bit and had more parties because people would create and/or find parties that fit their beliefs and interests better than the Democratic or Republican parties do now.

This is an incredibly short quote from Wikipedia about why and when the republican Party came into exixtence. "Founded by anti-slavery activists in 1854, it dominated politics nationally for most of the period from 1860 to 1932." Abolitiism was a pretty radical belief for a long period of time, and Lincoln's anti-slavery position was a good part of the reason he was elected.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Now I see reference for your comment. Let me clarify. They may not write the books. However, they are the ones approving the books that are to be used in the classrooms. The new materials being approved for classroom use are nothing more than the other side of the coin.


There is a list of textbooks from which individual school districts can select what will be in the classroom for a period of years. Most school districts have a mechanism for public review of proposed textbooks and input from the public.

From my perspective as a retired social studies teacher, many textbooks are very general in content and teachers bring in outside sources to supplement the general information.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is a fact. Plus don't teach history anymore either.


While there are individual teachers who are excellent, I think the state of public education in this country is abysmal. It isn't going to get any better, either, until we become willing to pay for the quality we want.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree with you. I'm of the opinion that any colonization throughout history has had any number of 'sides'. There is only one indisputable truth. There were always those that lost and those that won. It's the lopsidedness (if that's not a real word, don't blame me...it fits) that is happening today. It's the opposite swing of the pendulum that's being presented now. It doesn't make the history any more factual than when it was taught using the other view of facts. I'd like to see a little more even presentation so that students can make informed decisions.


Well said. Every possible viewpoint should be examined--I too don't favor promoting one historical take over another. All have a certain validity, and from a historical perspective it's a waste of time to take sides over events that have already happened--that falls under the jurisdiction of political and social science.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> There is a list of textbooks from which individual school districts can select what will be in the classroom for a period of years. Most school districts have a mechanism for public review of proposed textbooks and input from the public.
> 
> From my perspective as a retired social studies teacher, many textbooks are very general in content and teachers bring in outside sources to supplement the general information.


And some of the textbooks available for civics, social studies and history classes are downright inaccurate and sometimes completely wrong. My father read every book I brought into the house, including all textbooks, and it was his knowledge of history and the corrections he contributed to what I was being fed in school that helped spark a longtime enjoyment of reading history, from as many diverse points of view as possible.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Those people aren't rich enough to run for public office.


 I think so, too. Or if they are, they value their family life too much to subject it to the trashing.

Remember Herman Cain and the women who trashed him? Well, he dropped out of the race because of the pain it caused his family. Time will tell - and it has. Herman Cain is still happily married and has a radio show here in Atlanta! He's great - still optimistic - still into politics. The point is - all those "facts" were NOT true. 
The stories amounted to nothing and STILL ruined his campaign. What a dirty business.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I remember at some point in the latish 1990's that the Party Quebecois was the loyal minority. I hope I've got that right. My memory just says that party ended up in a rather uncomfortable position.
> 
> I don't advocate proportional representation at all, for the reasons you state. I do think we might be better off if we opened up a bit and had more parties because people would create and/or find parties that fit their beliefs and interests better than the Democratic or Republican parties do now.
> 
> This is an incredibly short quote from Wikipedia about why and when the republican Party came into exixtence. "Founded by anti-slavery activists in 1854, it dominated politics nationally for most of the period from 1860 to 1932." Abolitiism was a pretty radical belief for a long period of time, and Lincoln's anti-slavery position was a good part of the reason he was elected.


You came pretty close - the PQ is a provincial separatist party and the Bloc Quebecois is the federal separatist party that formed the opposition from 1993-97. Most Canadians were outraged that a party with seats in only 1 province and dedicated to the separation of the country became the "royal opposition".

In recent years, Canada has changed political donation rules which greatly lowered the amounts people, corporations or other groups could donate to political parties and candidates. I think this was a great improvement since they now need broad based support to fund their campaigns. This might be something worth considering in your country if people really want to limit the ability of lobbyists or special interests


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thumper I hope you have a large sewing room for all those machines and quilts to work on.


That's the truth. I have a question for quilters. I don't have a sewing machine. Is it practical to hand quilt? It seems to be a very long process.

I made a pillow by hand. It took a while, but it turned out well and was fun to do. I just couldn't be in a hurry. What about a quilt? Crazy idea, huh?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hello friends
> 
> Raining like the devil around here. So the satellite is spotty at times. Oh well, rather have spotty satellite then live in Northern Virginia's Obamaworld.
> 
> I would like to say that I admire those women in Cleveland that kept their faith, hope and courage alive to survive that 10 year horror. They are women that should be the role models for our daughters and granddaughters, not the Hilary's and Susan Rice's of the world that lie to obtain/keep power. They are an example of how faith and prayer does work


Yes - such a joyful turn of events.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Brilliant answer. Does that give us all carte blanche to post any old tripe with no back-up of any kind?


Sure, it does. That's going on all the time anyway by some of us. (Not me, of course!) Anyone who is interested enough is free to check the facts.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Personally, I think that a lot of women with intelligence decided to go into other careers such as law and medicine. The pay is better. What is left are people (I am generalizing, but it is not everyone) who are not good at learning trying to teach. Forget it. Then the ones who cannot teach or cope with the struggles of teaching decide to become administrators. Some don't have a clue how to run a school. 

So, I agree. You need to pay teachers better to draw more competent people.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - such a joyful turn of events.


I am with you OfftoKnit what have those young ladies been through.

To think of all the years they miss with their families, and how their parents must feel to know they are coming home.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And, the candidates who are smart are considered "elite" or "eggheads." The general public wants to vote for "regular people" like Dubya or Palin or Bachmann.


We usually are drawn to people when we feel we have something in common with them. It is especially important when we find someone like that who is also intelligent, honest, and accomplished.

Palin was "regular" except for living in Alaska and having some extraordinary experiences in the wilderness as a child. She is also exceptionally intelligent and very resilient. optimistic, and kind. In politics that is a rare find.

George Bush SEEMS "regular." In fact, I was just thinking about that during the library dedication. He was really a child of privilege who happened to be raised by wealthy AND very down-to-earth people. His father was President of the United States. George Bush is actually very intelligent. (His grades at Yale were better than Al Gore's grades. !!!!)

In spite of all this "exceptionality," he comes across as a regular guy. He relates easily to "regular" people. There's nothing phony or pompous about him. He's relaxed, casual, and friendly. That's another reason I admire him - he was once accused of being "born with a silver spoon in his mouth," but he has the humility and ease of "regular" people.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So what. What does that have to do with the issue being discussed?


It's just another way of starting the war of words on this site. By tonight the name calling will begin. Four sites are not enough for them.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> You came pretty close - the PQ is a provincial separatist party and the Bloc Quebecois is the federal separatist party that formed the opposition from 1993-97. Most Canadians were outraged that a party with seats in only 1 province and dedicated to the separation of the country became the "royal opposition".
> 
> In recent years, Canada has changed political donation rules which greatly lowered the amounts people, corporations or other groups could donate to political parties and candidates. I think this was a great improvement since they now need broad based support to fund their campaigns. This might be something worth considering in your country if people really want to limit the ability of lobbyists or special interests


Some effort has been made to put a cap on how much individuals can donate to political campaigns, but there is still a lot to do. The whole deeply ingrained existence of lobbyist, and lobbying essentially through bribery seems like the best big issue we could tackle to change the under-the-table national political process.

Wasn't Jean Chretien the head of the Bloc Quebecois during the 1993-97 period of "loyal opposition"? I seem to remember a fabulous and seemingly permanent scoul, and as you say many Canadians were very unhappy that the Bloc was in the position it was.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> While there are individual teachers who are excellent, I think the state of public education in this country is abysmal. It isn't going to get any better, either, until we become willing to pay for the quality we want.


I don't know what the US pay scales are but I think most Can. teachers are very well paid. In my prov. the range is $45,000 to $75,000 for the regular school year. I also know some great teachers (including my former sister-in-law) but there are also a good number of mediocre and bad teachers. Unions have made it very difficult to remove poor teachers and have also made class structures more rigid.

I think one of the major problems facing our teachers is that they can't just teach anymore - they have to be guidance councilors, social workers, therapists etc

We have also had several cases where teachers have pushed their political and social views onto their students and used the students to push their agendas


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Some effort has been made to put a cap on how much individuals can donate to political campaigns, but there is still a lot to do. The whole deeply ingrained existence of lobbyist, and lobbying essentially through bribery seems like the best big issue we could tackle to change the under-the-table national political process.
> 
> Wasn't Jean Chretien the head of the Bloc Quebecois during the 1993-97 period of "loyal opposition"? I seem to remember a fabulous and seemingly permanent scoul, and as you say many Canadians were very unhappy that the Bloc was in the position it was.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> That's the truth. I have a question for quilters. I don't have a sewing machine. Is it practical to hand quilt? It seems to be a very long process.
> 
> I made a pillow by hand. It took a while, but it turned out well and was fun to do. I just couldn't be in a hurry. What about a quilt? Crazy idea, huh?


You might want to try English Paper Piecing. http://www.paperpieces.com/


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> It's just another way of starting the war of words on this site. By tonight the name calling will begin. Four sites are not enough for them.


Oh, they like to spread their pain.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

In response to West Coast Kitty and Seattle Soul on politics:

I think there should be a cap on SPENDING on a campaign. Each candidate can spend -say - $1 million. Campaigning doesn't start until summer before election. No tv ads - only newspaper, speeches, and debates. Level the playing field so that no election can be bought. If we want to know about a candidate, we read about him/her or listen to him/her. Debates should be moderated by debate clubs, if you could find one that wasn't biased. If not, have them moderated by clergy! Maybe they'd be fair.

I think it's pathetic that we elect people because of their "performance" or appearance on tv. We should be electing them because of their integrity and their positions. 

Also, I think the voting age should be raised to 21. Teenagers are excused for bad behavior because of brain development; and yet they are allowed to vote! Preposterous! I know, they can serve in the military at 18. Well, they're too young to make that decision, too. 21 for military, too. 

Just my opinion.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You might want to try English Paper Piecing. http://www.paperpieces.com/


Thank you, Thumper!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Some effort has been made to put a cap on how much individuals can donate to political campaigns, but there is still a lot to do. The whole deeply ingrained existence of lobbyist, and lobbying essentially through bribery seems like the best big issue we could tackle to change the under-the-table national political process.
> 
> Wasn't Jean Chretien the head of the Bloc Quebecois during the 1993-97 period of "loyal opposition"? I seem to remember a fabulous and seemingly permanent scoul, and as you say many Canadians were very unhappy that the Bloc was in the position it was.


No - Chretien was Liberal leader and Prime Minister for all too many years. The scowl is actually a physical defect that he couldn't control.

I think if campaign financing restrictions are going to have any chance of working they need to apply to all donations and not just individuals. I doubt that politicians would voluntarily support those changes since they would have to start earning support from their constituents. If the change can be accomplished it would really level the playing field for candidates and make politicians much more accountable


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> While there are individual teachers who are excellent, I think the state of public education in this country is abysmal. It isn't going to get any better, either, until we become willing to pay for the quality we want.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> In response to West Coast Kitty and Seattle Soul on politics:
> 
> I think there should be a cap on SPENDING on a campaign. Each candidate can spend -say - $1 million. Campaigning doesn't start until summer before election. No tv ads - only newspaper, speeches, and debates. Level the playing field so that no election can be bought. If we want to know about a candidate, we read about him/her or listen to him/her. Debates should be moderated by debate clubs, if you could find one that wasn't biased. If not, have them moderated by clergy! Maybe they'd be fair.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you say except to add that donation limits should also apply as well as spending limits. Canada started changing the rules a few years ago and the next couple of years will see the rest of them phased in. Our donation limits are quite low so the candidates and parties have to get a LOT of people making donations to run a campaign. And it's a big incentive to make sure they stay accountable if they want to run again next time

Not sure about raising the age limit - some of the young people I know are more mature and informed about issues than some of adults


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The same things hold true in USA. Teachers have so many other responsibilities that they have little time left to do what they do best is TEACH. And our teachers also try to push their personal and teachers union agendas. The parents need to watch them like hawks. And the worst thing is that our Dept of Education is the biggest Teachers Union.

Our children are the losers in this whole scene and many of our students do not function at the level of third world country children. And we are spending tons of money with little results.



west coast kitty said:


> I don't know what the US pay scales are but I think most Can. teachers are very well paid. In my prov. the range is $45,000 to $75,000 for the regular school year. I also know some great teachers (including my former sister-in-law) but there are also a good number of mediocre and bad teachers. Unions have made it very difficult to remove poor teachers and have also made class structures more rigid.
> 
> I think one of the major problems facing our teachers is that they can't just teach anymore - they have to be guidance councilors, social workers, therapists etc
> 
> We have also had several cases where teachers have pushed their political and social views onto their students and used the students to push their agendas


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I suspect we will have riots. The people expecting a dole never prepare for when it ends. Look at Greece. There has been much unrest in Spain and Portugal too. Italians are struggling, too. I feel for them. But their lives are controlled by the benefits they are getting. Losing them causes panic. That is a recipe for disaster. When you think your government will always take care of you, you lose the ability to take care of yourself.


I see this as the plan of the current administration. Wasn't that what "from the cradle to the grave" poster was all about? Don't worry, the government is here to take care of you?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Sorry for winding them up. Isn't it funny how they get frustrated with not having facts and details correct. Frustration breeds anger. Angry people don't make sensible debaters. They are losing it. Let's pray they get some sleep and sanity returns.


They already have one of their own turning against the others.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> If you read correctly, I said "or" have forgotten. There was no mistake on my part.
> 
> There is teaching going on (in some cases not well). It is written that our students know very little history. Ask them a simple historical question and the cannot answer. That fact is widely known. How can students make informed choices as adults when they don't know what history has dictated?


It's not teaching, it's indoctrination.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Boo! Ingried and I are watching.


Good for you both at least you have something constructive to do.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Brilliant answer. Does that give us all carte blanche to post any old tripe with no back-up of any kind?


You do that regardless, why ask?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I agree with most of what you say except to add that donation limits should also apply as well as spending limits. Canada started changing the rules a few years ago and the next couple of years will see the rest of them phased in. Our donation limits are quite low so the candidates and parties have to get a LOT of people making donations to run a campaign. And it's a big incentive to make sure they stay accountable if they want to run again next time
> 
> Not sure about raising the age limit - some of the young people I know are more mature and informed about issues than some of adults


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I agree - a limit on SPENDING. Give them an even chance - no advantage for having more money.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I see this as the plan of the current administration. Wasn't that what "from the cradle to the grave" poster was all about? Don't worry, the government is here to take care of you?


I agree. BAck when Glenn Beck was on tv, he predicted this.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Personally, I think that a lot of women with intelligence decided to go into other careers such as law and medicine. The pay is better. What is left are people (I am generalizing, but it is not everyone) who are not good at learning trying to teach. Forget it. Then the ones who cannot teach or cope with the struggles of teaching decide to become administrators. Some don't have a clue how to run a school.
> 
> So, I agree. You need to pay teachers better to draw more competent people.


I can't begin to count the number of times I heard adults ask children at weddings, anniversary parties, family reunions and even funerals, what do you want to do with your life? After they were answered, they always countered with, "well if that doesn't work out, you can always teach". I always thought that was awful. It's no wonder the teaching profession isn't held in higher esteem.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Teaching used to be a calling. We taught because we loved kids.

Nowadays, that's not the case, in general. My fellow teachers (I'm now retired) heard young people say they wanted to teach because of summer vacation. Little did they know they'd be required to take - and sometimes pay for out of their own money - continuing education classes in the summer.

I think also that students think the education courses are easy. True enough - learning teaching methods isn't learning calculus. But they also thought the JOB of teaching was easy - and that's where the rubber meets the road. Lots of hard work and lots of frustration - and lots of joy.

The mindset now is different. When I was teaching, some of us came early and stayed late. We were usually the over-50 teachers. We couldn't understand how the new teachers could be finished and ready for the next day by the time the children left the building. 

When I was in college in the sixties, we were taught that standardized tests were very limited in the information they gave. They were just a snapshot. We were also taught things like - say something nice to every child every day (this was elementary ed.). Never use sarcasm. There are no stupid questions. And - ALWAYS BE PREPARED. We weren't taught crowd control because that wasn't a problem back then.

The astronauts, inventors, innovators - most probably went to public schools. Back when they were children, teachers hoped to instill a love of learning, a fascination with understanding how things work, a curiosity to find out more about it. Now the teachers have to teach to reach a certain standardized test score. It's boring for kids and teachers. I finally left, and I'm glad I did. I still love to teach, but not under today's conditions.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You do that regardless, why ask?


That's the reply I was waiting for. What took you so long? I hope you can back this up.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Heard on the radio this morning that algore is worth over $200 million. Guess all that green will help pay for his private jet. Wonder what percentage of his income he donates to charity. Bet you dollars to donuts it is not as much as Romney.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> l.... teachers hoped to instill a love of learning, a fascination with understanding how things work, a curiosity to find out more about it....
> 
> bon - that's what I remember about my best teachers and I loved going to school. I think that attitude is the most important qualification for a good teacher; I remember some that knew their stuff but weren't very good at passing that on in a way that made sense.
> 
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Money spent on public education doesn't represent improved outcomes. You can throw all the money in the world into our school systems and you'll still get the poor results.

It has been shown that schools with active PTA's are those which produce the best results. Therefore until we educate the public that with parenthood comes responsibility, the children will suffer and not be able to compete with their peers in other countries. Many of these countries have large class size and limited facilities as compared to the USA.

We still have the best higher education in the world.



alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As I see it, K-6 teachers are imprisoned in classrooms with 30 or more children who they are expected to both teach and babysit. No, there aren't real bars on the windows nor are the doors locked, but it makes no difference. Depending on the character of that one adult, those children spend their school days in Hell or in Heaven. 

We willingly consign teachers and our children to inhumane environments and then complain about the results. When both parents work, they give up any real interest in their children, and let others of raising their children as cheaply as possible. Most adults are so married to materialism that they have no clear idea about how their children should be treated, or to what extent they actually learn anything in public school.

These so-called women of intelligence who go into law or medicine because the pay is better are the worst of the lot. When they drop their children out of their bodies all they can think of is how soon they can foist them off on whoever costs them the least in money and attention to care for their children so they can get back to pursuing the almighty dollar. 

The whole topic of parenthood as it is today needs serious review, and in my opinion, major change. I despise those two-parent families where both parents work full time.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

SS regarding the abysmal status of our educational system and thinking that money is the solution I respectfully disagree with you. Money spent on public education doesn't represent improved outcomes. You can throw all the money in the world into our school systems and you'll still get the poor results. And some of our states which spend less on education have students performing higher on their SAT scores. And our cities spend the most per student on education and their results are more than abysmal.

It has been shown that schools with active PTA's are those which produce the best results. Therefore until we educate the public that with parenthood comes responsibility, the children will suffer and not be able to compete with their peers in other countries. Many of these countries have large class size and limited facilities as compared to the USA.

Until we as a country recognize the value of a strong family this will not change.

We still have the best higher education in the world.



alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And Bonnie we lost a great teacher. I was fortunate to have had your style teacher for my kids. Love of learning, curiosity and saying something nice to each student every day. And I'll bet you let them know that 2+3 didn't equal 4. And doing so didn't damage their self-esteem.



bonbf3 said:


> Teaching used to be a calling. We taught because we loved kids.
> 
> Nowadays, that's not the case, in general. My fellow teachers (I'm now retired) heard young people say they wanted to teach because of summer vacation. Little did they know they'd be required to take - and sometimes pay for out of their own money - continuing education classes in the summer.
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUknitting, I agree, money isn't the only thing our education system needs, though I believe the extent to which parents and teachers have to spend money to buy what the schools can't provide in terms of basic school supplies is a very real problem. I whole-heartedly agree that a strong family supports good education for children, along with everything else children need to grow up in every sense.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> The Dept of Ed does not write text books.


Textbooks for high school students are written by writers heavily influenced by Dept's of Ed. The work is submitted for review by editors with varying perspectives on what history (or another subject) is. The edited work is compiled by book publishers. The books are approved by state's Dept's of Ed. Then, the publishers present the textbooks to schools which are going through a textbook adoption cycle. A committee reads them, and makes recommendations on which books to approve and purchase. There are many points of influence by university level Dept's of Education, state Dept of Education, liberal writers or conservative writers, the book publisher, who will sell more books if history theories change, etc. The funky theories begin at the university level and trickle slowly to HS students


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And I concur with your thoughts on materialism. Perhaps those individuals should choose not to become parents, although to some, their children are a small part of their materialism. And I have known small children..pre-pre school who call their au paire or nanny mama.



SeattleSoul said:


> RUknitting, I agree, money isn't the only thing our education system needs, though I believe the extent to which parents and teachers have to spend money to buy what the schools can't provide in terms of basic school supplies is a very real problem. I whole-heartedly agree that a strong family supports good education for children, along with everything else children need to grow up in every sense.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Textbooks for high school students are written by writers heavily influenced by Dept's of Ed. The work is submitted for review by editors with varying perspectives on what history (or another subject) is. The edited work is compiled by book publishers. The books are approved by state's Dept's of Ed. Then, the publishers present the textbooks who are going through a textbook adoption cycle. A committee reads them, and makes recommendations on which books to approve and purchase. There are many points of influence by university level Dept's of Education, state Dept of Education, liberal writers or conservative writers, the book publisher, who will sell more books if history theories change, etc. The funky theories begin at the university level and trickle slowly to HS students


Funky theories? Are you referring to historical facts as viewed by the variety of persons who experienced them and whose remarks are still available to us despite the effects of time? Funky theories? Good grief...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> As I see it, K-6 teachers are imprisoned in classrooms with 30 or more children who they are expected to both teach and babysit. No, there aren't real bars on the windows nor are the doors locked, but it makes no difference. Depending on the character of that one adult, those children spend their school days in Hell or in Heaven.
> 
> We willingly consign teachers and our children to inhumane environments and then complain about the results. When both parents work, they give up any real interest in their children, and let others of raising their children as cheaply as possible. Most adults are so married to materialism that they have no clear idea about how their children should be treated, or to what extent they actually learn anything in public school.
> 
> ...


That is my mantra as well. I am also sick of hearing that "both parents need to work in order to makes ends meet" garbage. Sacrificing material goods is much healthier for the child than sacrificing the child. If a woman (or man) is smart, staying home with the children does not make them stupid. It makes the children smart.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, it is not indoctrination. You can get into serious trouble for that. Parents would sue the school system in a blink of an eye. Any teacher would know that. They would be too afraid.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That is my mantra as well. I am also sick of hearing that "both parents need to work in order to makes ends meet" garbage. Sacrificing material goods is much healthier for the child than sacrificing the child. If a woman (or man) is smart, staying home with the children does not make them stupid. It makes the children smart.


I always thought that the five short years I spent at home with my two was the best job I ever had. There was some opposition from my husband, who was from the 1970s version of feminism. He thought it "embarrassing" that I didn't work outside. Luckily for all of us I won that one and he eventually saw my version of sense.

When I eventually sent them to nursery I was very concerned that they should be allowed to just lie on the floor or get a cuddle if they wanted to. There is a very strong middle-class strand in this country that thinks that even very small children should be subjected to activities and stimulation at all times.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> That is my mantra as well. I am also sick of hearing that "both parents need to work in order to makes ends meet" garbage. Sacrificing material goods is much healthier for the child than sacrificing the child. If a woman (or man) is smart, staying home with the children does not make them stupid. It makes the children smart.


Thoughtful


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > l.... teachers hoped to instill a love of learning, a fascination with understanding how things work, a curiosity to find out more about it....
> ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Off2knit,

I totally agree. Plus, if the woman does not go to work, she needs to purchase a lot less (work clothing for instance) and it saves money. Kids are best served with mom staying home.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Off2knit,
> 
> I totally agree. Plus, if the woman does not go to work, she needs to purchase a lot less (work clothing for instance) and it saves money. Kids are best served with mom staying home.


Amen. But oh, my - dare we say that in public?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> SS regarding the abysmal status of our educational system and thinking that money is the solution I respectfully disagree with you. Money spent on public education doesn't represent improved outcomes. You can throw all the money in the world into our school systems and you'll still get the poor results. And some of our states which spend less on education have students performing higher on their SAT scores. And our cities spend the most per student on education and their results are more than abysmal.
> 
> It has been shown that schools with active PTA's are those which produce the best results. Therefore until we educate the public that with parenthood comes responsibility, the children will suffer and not be able to compete with their peers in other countries. Many of these countries have large class size and limited facilities as compared to the USA.
> 
> ...


You are so right. When I was teaching, I always had plenty of materials - good materials - but never enough teaching time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Also, I think the voting age should be raised to 21. Teenagers are excused for bad behavior because of brain development; and yet they are allowed to vote! Preposterous! I know, they can serve in the military at 18. Well, they're too young to make that decision, too. 21 for military, too.


Interesting proposal! I think if you raised the voting age to 21 you'd also have to postpone the age of emancipation by three years--it wouldn't be fair to demand that eighteen year olds support themselves without the right to vote on policies that affect them. That would force parents to provide for their offspring for an three extra years--I can imagine the howls if that came to pass.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And Bonnie we lost a great teacher. I was fortunate to have had your style teacher for my kids. Love of learning, curiosity and saying something nice to each student every day. And I'll bet you let them know that 2+3 didn't equal 4. And doing so didn't damage their self-esteem.


RUKnitting - that's so nice of you - and you're right - the beauty of math is that there are correct answers. Truth! And math is so much fun to teach to six-year olds. Everything is new to them. Once we were working with a number line. It started at zero. I asked them, "What's on the other side of zero?" "Nothing!!" they shouted. I shushed them, and spoke in a whisper. "Don't tell anybody I told you this because you're not supposed to learn about this until fourth grade! BUT - there are numbers on the other side of zero!" Then I showed them some negative numbers. You'd have thought it was Christmas! One of my favorite teaching moments. Nothing compares to watching kids learn. And it's so easy if you just start where they are and use their natural curiosity. (Too long again. Can you tell I miss it? Good thing I have a lot of grandkids!)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interesting proposal! I think if you raised the voting age to 21 you'd also have to postpone the age of emancipation by three years--it wouldn't be fair to demand that eighteen year olds support themselves without the right to vote on policies that affect them. That would force parents to provide for their offspring for an three extra years--I can imagine the howls if that came to pass.


Okay by me. They're already still children until 26 when it comes to insurance.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. Not in public.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay by me. They're already still children until 26 when it comes to insurance.


Actually 18 is the magic number in our country, but in others it ranges from 15--Iran, Iraq, and Indonesia--to 21--Egypt, Kuwait, and (believe it or not) the American state of Mississippi! Could that be right?--18, 19, and 20 year-olds in Mississippi are still legally under their parents control?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> RUKnitting - that's so nice of you - and you're right - the beauty of math is that there are correct answers. Truth! And math is so much fun to teach to six-year olds. Everything is new to them. Once we were working with a number line. It started at zero. I asked them, "What's on the other side of zero?" "Nothing!!" they shouted. I shushed them, and spoke in a whisper. "Don't tell anybody I told you this because you're not supposed to learn about this until fourth grade! BUT - there are numbers on the other side of zero!" Then I showed them some negative numbers. You'd have thought it was Christmas! One of my favorite teaching moments. Nothing compares to watching kids learn. And it's so easy if you just start where they are and use their natural curiosity. (Too long again. Can you tell I miss it? Good thing I have a lot of grandkids!)


Do you want to be my teacher one is never to old to learn. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Can't resist temptation to disrupt. No self control.


you have more than you think self control I mean :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you have more than you think self control I mean :thumbup:


I wasn't talking about myself Yarnie :roll:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I wasn't talking about myself Yarnie :roll:


Oh darn well who then??? :roll:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh darn well who then??? :roll:


 :wink:  ;-) :!: :?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :wink:  ;-) :!: :?


Oh thems ones :shock: :idea:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Do you want to be my teacher one is never to old to learn. :thumbup:


I always hated math until my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Decker, showed me the magic of the 9 multiplication table. Saw things in a whole new way after that. I remember her teaching the whole class to do Swedish weaving. She would read out loud to the class for a half hour after lunch. Sew read "The Hobbit" all that winter, a half hour at a time. She was the greatest.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right. Not in public.


 :wink:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Do you want to be my teacher one is never to old to learn. :thumbup:


I'd love it...................but I'm afraid you already know more than I do. I'm still in first grade. Maybe you can teach me.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :wink:  ;-) :!: :?


 :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I always hated math until my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Decker, showed me the magic of the 9 multiplication table. Saw things in a whole new way after that. I remember her teaching the whole class to do Swedish weaving. She would read out loud to the class for a half hour after lunch. Sew read "The Hobbit" all that winter, a half hour at a time. She was the greatest.


And you still remember her. She probably enjoyed all that as much as you did.
My third grade teacher read us Tom Sawyer after lunch. I'll never forget that - or her - Mrs. Bryant. School can be great!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I sure did experience that. I started out working as a parapro (teacher's aide) in Special Ed - EBD - Emotional and Behavioral Disorders. When I became a first grade teacher, I had a couple of students with behavior "issues," one with severe problems. It was challenging (I like a challenge and I like those kids) and rewarding. Then - we had an influx of new students. I had quite a few with no respect for authority resulting from parents who just didn't care. Didn't care! Can you imagine? Most of my parents were great - and their children were, too. But these other poor kids were terribly disruptive and in trouble so much. It was very difficult, and not very rewarding because, after all, the parents are the most important adults in their lives. If they don't care, the kids don't thrive. And this was first grade - six year olds! It was sad. A few excellent veteran teachers left due to behavior problems. For me, it was the incessant testing that broke this camel's back......
> 
> That's similar to the worst experience my SIL had - she and another teacher had playground supevision during recess and saw a little boy, who had a reputation for being difficult, beating on another child. They ran over and while the other teacher held him back, Lorraine knelt over the other child and got kicked in the face. She ended up wih broken glasses and a black eye. It's not that the parents (who were both professionals) didn't care, but just couldn't seem to understand that this little boy had serious problems. It broke her heart that the other kids avoided him and that he was so troubled
> 
> I'm sure there are a lot of students who have happy memories of their time in your class room too!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interesting proposal! I think if you raised the voting age to 21 you'd also have to postpone the age of emancipation by three years--it wouldn't be fair to demand that eighteen year olds support themselves without the right to vote on policies that affect them. That would force parents to provide for their offspring for an three extra years--I can imagine the howls if that came to pass.


A lot of 18 year olds supported themselves before the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 when the 26th Amendment to the Constitution went into effect on July 1, 1971, and a noticeable number of 18 year olds had already been sent to Viet Nam to become cannon fodder. I would love to see the voting age returned to 21. Unfortunately, I don't think enough 21 year olds would volunteer for military service, which might make it necessary to reinstate some kind of draft. The younger, less experienced people are the most likely to volunteer, because they just don't know any better. I would rather they were stupid, freely, instead of being forced into military service.

I think there's also some discussion implied here about the age of consent, emancipation, military elegibility, and voting age. The age of consent is very low in a few states, and we see ever younger violent offenders tried as adults and being sent to adult prisons where many of them are automatically huge targets for all kinds of abuse by older inmates. Maybe some of you have some ideas about all that. It could be an interesting discussion.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Your topic belongs in a different thread. From what I understand, this thread was created for fun chat between friends not to be a place of angst. So I am sure your saintly pontification will be appreciated elsewhere


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Funky theories? Are you referring to historical facts as viewed by the variety of persons who experienced them and whose remarks are still available to us despite the effects of time? Funky theories? Good grief...


Example: revisionist history, ie, the holocaust never happened. Taught in a community college near me until the professor (yes a full professor) lost his position.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> A lot of 18 year olds supported themselves before the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 when the 26th Amendment to the Constitution went into effect on July 1, 1971, and a noticeable number of 18 year olds had already been sent to Viet Nam to become cannon fodder. I would love to see the voting age returned to 21. Unfortunately, I don't think enough 21 year olds would volunteer for military service, which might make it necessary to reinstate some kind of draft. The younger, less experienced people are the most likely to volunteer, because they just don't know any better. I would rather they were stupid, freely, instead of being forced into military service.


Of course even when the voting age was 21 many many eighteen year olds were supporting themselves and joining/being drafted into the military--but that doesn't make it right. It truly was a case of "taxation without representation"--don't think that would fly in the 21st century.

I did a bit of research, and there are actually five states in which the age of majority is variously 19 or 21--Alabama, Delaware, Mississippi, Nebraska, and Nevada. It leads to some odd situations--in Mississippi 18 year olds can make business contracts on their own behalf but can't accept or refuse medical treatment without parental consent.

Quite frankly I'm intrigued by the idea of raising the age of majority to 21 in all states across the board--no draft/enlistments, no medical treatment, no voting rights, and no financial independence until then. It's fascinating to consider the possible ramifications and how it would affect our nation.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Example: revisionist history, ie, the holocaust never happened. Taught in a community college near me until the professor (yes a full professor) lost his position.


Agree that's pretty far out (and infuriating!), but adults have the right to choose their own professors and classes, no matter how bizarre. Even this guy was fired for espousing his twisted views--an elementary or high-school teacher wouldn't have lasted a day spouting such garbage.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Sounds like a topic for your loll thread. Why is it so important for you to hijack other's threads? Are you so arrogant and have such a warped sense of self worth that you believe people all over this site and on every thread care what you think?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course even when the voting age was 21 many many eighteen year olds were supporting themselves and joining/being drafted into the military--but that doesn't make it right. It truly was a case of "taxation without representation"--don't think that would fly in the 21st century.
> 
> I did a bit of research, and there are actually five states in which the age of majority is variously 19 or 21--Alabama, Delaware, Mississippi, Nebraska, and Nevada. It leads to some odd situations--in Mississippi 18 year olds can make business contracts on their own behalf but can't accept or refuse medical treatment without parental consent.
> 
> Quite frankly I'm intrigued by the idea of raising the age of majority to 21 in all states across the board--no draft/enlistments, no medical treatment, no voting rights, and no financial independence until then. It's fascinating to consider the possible ramifications and how it would affect our nation.


I remember when the voting age was 21 (almost everywhere I think). The proposed rule for joining the service until 21 would work better, however, if those 18-21 could find a job. I wouldn't want to encourage them to just stay at home living off Mom and Dad. That seems to be happening too much now. At least the service option is a good motivator, "Get a job or enlist." I know parents who used that tactic.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Raising the age wouldn't fly. Draft age cannot be changed because it would have a dramatic effect on our military forces. Plus, many kids want to go into the military right out of high school (depends on where you live). They do not want to go to college, but prefer this route. Our high school had a huge proportion of kids wanting to go in the military. The kids are already planning that route in middle school. 

Our country needs strong men to protect us. During WWII "men" were flying planes who had never had a driver's license. Our military population would be severely and detrimentally decreased if the age changed. You must be able to fight. The older you get, the more difficult it is to fight. Youth are strong.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Everyone have their popcorn and soda ready for this afternoon?

I am still in awe of those women that survived the horrors in Cleveland. What role models for our young women of this country. Prayers have been answered. I believe that God has bigger plans for them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I remember when the voting age was 21 (almost everywhere I think). The proposed rule for joining the service until 21 would work better, however, if those 18-21 could find a job. I wouldn't want to encourage them to just stay at home living off Mom and Dad. That seems to be happening too much now. At least the service option is a good motivator, "Get a job or enlist." I know parents who used that tactic.


I agree, how to fill the three year period from 18 to 21 would be a problem as education isn't mandatory after high school. Kids in that age bracket probably need to be earning most or all of their own income if they aren't actually in college, but raising the age of majority to 21 would put the money they generate under the control of their parents. One possibility would be to raise the age of majority by only a year or two--it would give kids some extra time to grow up but not force any radical restructuring on our education system or economy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> A lot of 18 year olds supported themselves before the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 when the 26th Amendment to the Constitution went into effect on July 1, 1971, and a noticeable number of 18 year olds had already been sent to Viet Nam to become cannon fodder. I would love to see the voting age returned to 21. Unfortunately, I don't think enough 21 year olds would volunteer for military service, which might make it necessary to reinstate some kind of draft. The younger, less experienced people are the most likely to volunteer, because they just don't know any better. I would rather they were stupid, freely, instead of being forced into military service.
> 
> I think there's also some discussion implied here about the age of consent, emancipation, military elegibility, and voting age. The age of consent is very low in a few states, and we see ever younger violent offenders tried as adults and being sent to adult prisons where many of them are automatically huge targets for all kinds of abuse by older inmates. Maybe some of you have some ideas about all that. It could be an interesting discussion.


I heard that it's because teenagers are "malleable" that the military age is 18. They can be molded. I have a serious problem with that. Very serious reservations.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Example: revisionist history, ie, the holocaust never happened. Taught in a community college near me until the professor (yes a full professor) lost his position.


Around here, some of the crazy professors are glorified. We have a guy who went to jail for building and detonating bombs - killing innocent people - teaching at one of the "prestigious" colleges. He's not the only one. Nuts.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Your topic belongs in a different thread. From what I understand, this thread was created for fun chat between friends not to be a place of angst. So I am sure your saintly pontification will be appreciated elsewhere


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Raising the age wouldn't fly. Draft age cannot be changed because it would have a dramatic effect on our military forces. Plus, many kids want to go into the military right out of high school (depends on where you live). They do not want to go to college, but prefer this route. Our high school had a huge proportion of kids wanting to go in the military. The kids are already planning that route in middle school.
> 
> Our country needs strong men to protect us. During WWII "men" were flying planes who had never had a driver's license. Our military population would be severely and detrimentally decreased if the age changed. You must be able to fight. The older you get, the more difficult it is to fight. Youth are strong.


Good points. At least with the all-volunteer military they are making their own decision. Still - 18 is awfully young for such a heavy decision. People used to get married right out of high school, but that's not so common any more. Adolescence lasts longer - until 26 if you're talking about insurance!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I still think that one year will hurt our military force. By 18 years old, that person is in charge of their own life. Parental control is at a minimum. Kids are immature these days. But, I find that kids who go into the military at 18 really want and need to go. They earnestly look forward to going. 

Some men are not mature by 30, 40, 60... 

Most importantly: The military will help boys become men!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Everyone have their popcorn and soda ready for this afternoon?
> 
> I am still in awe of those women that survived the horrors in Cleveland. What role models for our young women of this country. Prayers have been answered. I believe that God has bigger plans for them.


The popcorn is ready! I was going to shop for birthday presents today and then realized this was my day to sit in front of the tube and study.

It is truly amazing what people can survive. I keep thinking about how it must have felt to break free - what joy and disbelief! Thank God.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I cannot imagine having a child by one of them. How does one feel about that child. I would guess that they love the child no matter what. But, what a reminder.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I cannot imagine having a child by one of them. How does one feel about that child. I would guess that they love the child no matter what. But, what a reminder.


The woman who broke out was so precise in the info she gave to police dispatcher. She was emotional, be had all the right information and got it all out right away. I'll bet she had practiced for years.

The man who rescued her sure is an entertaining fellow - what personality! You could tell he was stunned by the whole experience. Good guy.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I still think that one year will hurt our military force. By 18 years old, that person is in charge of their own life. Parental control is at a minimum. Kids are immature these days. But, I find that kids who go into the military at 18 really want and need to go. They earnestly look forward to going.
> 
> Some men are not mature by 30, 40, 60...
> 
> Most importantly: The military will help boys become men!


And girls become responsible women.

My sister's stepdaughter was headed for serious trouble after graduation...with diploma in hand she devoted her days to searching out married men on the Internet and her nights to entertaining them. Not sure how or why she joined the Navy, but six years after the fact she's a born-again Christian holding a well-paying and responsible job in the Pacific Northwest.

I agree that joining the military is a big decision, but for some teens it serves as a desperately-needed safety net.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I absolutely agree. The military is a safety net for many people. They do not want to go to college (or to go after their stint in the military - and have college paid for - which I think is great).

The military serves more than one purpose.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I absolutely agree. The military is a safety net for many people. They do not want to go to college (or to go after their stint in the military - and have college paid for - which I think is great).
> 
> The military serves more than one purpose.


If it's voluntary, that's better than a draft. Still I question the appropriateness of the age. We've adjusted to it, and some people have used the opportunity wisely and to great benefit. But I still question the morality of allowing 18-year olds to risk their lives.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

When it comes to defending our country, everyone helps. During WWII, little children helped.

Many soldiers were way under the age of 18. They lied about their age to go fight. 

Unfortunately, everyone suffers in a war. But, if our country is really threatened, we all help. The country mobilizes. 

I do not think 18 is too young. They are the fittest and, therefore, best to defend our country.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree that's pretty far out (and infuriating!), but adults have the right to choose their own professors and classes, no matter how bizarre. Even this guy was fired for espousing his twisted views--an elementary or high-school teacher wouldn't have lasted a day spouting such garbage.


Agree with you about this not being taught yet in high schools, but the perversion of history is pervasive. If you can just teach a few non-mainstream theories to gullible young people without a good foundation in history from family or high school. They have never been taught to be skeptical. Every teacher and every writer of works the are taught has a bias. Determining how great the bias is is the job of every student and every thinking person.

I found in college that the 100 level courses had mainstream texts and professors. They made history more interesting than my high school teachers did and conveyed a great deal more. But, 300 and 400 and above level courses had history professors who used treatises written by other professors or historians that were less mainstream. My last year of college, I had enough credits, but needed another elective. I took a 400 level class as pass/fail. That meant I could merely enjoy the class and not need to worry about ruining my GPA if I didn't get an A in the class. The first book we read was about air attacks by Americans during WWII. The writers theory was that American pilots were afraid to bomb except at night over Germany and the English were braver because they did the daytime raids. I accepted the idea that the. British probably did the daytime raids (if that weren't true , it could easily be disproved), but I didn't see proof of that theory in the text, it didn't mesh with my knowledge of the US air campaigns, and the professor didn't provide substantiation for the claims. When we had to write a paper on the book, I didn't get a good grade because I challenged the theory (with statistics). I was glad that I took the class Pass/Fail. The professor was a nice guy, but he had some strange bias against America. He is probably retired now, but think how many young students left school with that man's bias ringing in their ears. Luckily, I was older, had a father who fought in WWII and who talked about it, and had read about history from other sources. I also had learned to look for bias.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Sounds like the police were alerted about the house but there was no record of it several times.

There may have been another girl there, that is not there. I hate to say it, but I am not too hopeful. But there is always hope as those three women prove.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> When it comes to defending our country, everyone helps. During WWII, little children helped.
> 
> Many soldiers were way under the age of 18. They lied about their age to go fight.
> 
> ...


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I do see your point, just have grave reservations.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Your topic belongs in a different thread. From what I understand, this thread was created for fun chat between friends not to be a place of angst. So I am sure your saintly pontification will be appreciated elsewhere


If you're addressing me, let me point out that the original purpose of this thread changed quite some time ago and you, yourself, have made posts that don't conform to that original purpose. I think you may even have pontificated.

"Saintly" is a nickname one of my high school teachers gave me due to my obviously excessive idealism (which was the same as the bunch of kids I hung out with). He called me that in class (arrgh, but I got his goat a few times with some silly jokes). It was and is just innocent fun that I like.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> If you're addressing me, let me point out tha the original purpose of this thread changed quite some time ago and you, yourself, have made posts that don't conform to that original purpose. I think you may even have pontificated.
> 
> "Saintly" is a nickname one of my high school teachers gave me due to my obviously excessive idealism (which was the same as the bunch of kids I hung out with). He called me that in class (arrgh, but I got his goat a few times with some silly jokes). It was and is just innocent fun that I like.


She's the only one that can pontificate in a saintly manner. (Meow)


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Most importantly: The military will help boys become men!


What about the girls?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> She's the only one that can pontificate in a saintly manner. (Meow)


Yes, but I rather suppose that only the Pope can actually pontificate. I can only produce faint imitations.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Yes, but I rather suppose that only the Pope can actually pontificate. I can only produce faint imitations.


You're right


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course, I have grave reservations. I wish there was no war and no military. It is terrible. But, with a bad war, - all hands on deck.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> If you're addressing me, let me point out tha the original purpose of this thread changed quite some time ago and you, yourself, have made posts that don't conform to that original purpose. I think you may even have pontificated.
> 
> "Saintly" is a nickname one of my high school teachers gave me due to my obviously excessive idealism (which was the same as the bunch of kids I hung out with). He called me that in class (arrgh, but I got his goat a few times with some silly jokes). It was and is just innocent fun that I like.


Wow, living in the past and proud of it. Because of my height and basketball and volleyball skills, I had some cute nicknames. But why go back to high school to have a nickname? Maybe a nickname from your Dad or Mom is cute in middle age, but other than that I prefer my given name and not childish nicknames from my youth


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> And girls become responsible women.
> 
> My sister's stepdaughter was headed for serious trouble after graduation...with diploma in hand she devoted her days to searching out married men on the Internet and her nights to entertaining them. Not sure how or why she joined the Navy, but six years after the fact she's a born-again Christian holding a well-paying and responsible job in the Pacific Northwest.
> 
> I agree that joining the military is a big decision, but for some teens it serves as a desperately-needed safety net.


My husband's boss' daughter is a similar story. She has blossomed in the Air Force. Kids and young adults need discipline and most do well with it. It gives them structure in their lives that is sadly lacking.

As most of you know, all three of my boys are in the military. It has given them training that they would have not had the opportunity to obtain in the civilian sector without a high cost. They don't mind the military because they have self discipline and appreciate the discipline the service adheres to. They learned what it truly means to work as a team and that life is not all about them. I think that more young adults today would benefit from such things.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Wow, living in the past and proud of it. Because of my height and basketball and volleyball skills, I had some cute nicknames. But why go back to high school to have a nickname? Maybe a nickname from your Dad or Mom is cute in middle age, but other than that I prefer my given name and not childish nicknames from my youth


Said teacher is a good friend of mine, so the nickname is part of the present,and he persists in using it even though it harks back to our mutual past. It continues to make me blush. Other people have picked it up and use these days, too.

For me, living in the past in terms of nicknames means telling relatives I haven't spoken to in a long time that I'm "Little Mimi" if I call them on the phone. My mother is "Big Mimi".


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Everyone have their popcorn and soda ready for this afternoon?
> 
> I am still in awe of those women that survived the horrors in Cleveland. What role models for our young women of this country. Prayers have been answered. I believe that God has bigger plans for them.


I plan on being in front of TV watching C Span. Want the answers and hope they really question this itme as last time they were falling all over themselves praising her. At least she won't be there this time.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

offtoknit, why because 4 site are not enough and they want everyone to see how nice they are. Not to worry they will go off soon. They high jack what ever site that seem to be available. One seem to have not decide which site to be on.

Back to fun and joy. How is everyone today hope it is sun shine and laughter. Have a good day.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> She's the only one that can pontificate in a saintly manner. (Meow)


Actually, Off2Knits is right. This topic was supposed to be a friendly one. So far, people have done a better job than in some other places, but it has drifted away from friendly and chatty. I'm as guilty as anyone.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Actually, Off2Knits is right. This topic was supposed to be a friendly one. So far, people have done a better job than in some other places, but it has drifted away from friendly and chatty. I'm as guilty as anyone.


Me, too. Bye bye.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Of course, I have grave reservations. I wish there was no war and no military. It is terrible. But, with a bad war, - all hands on deck.


I draw the line at children. The adults are supposed to protect the children, not vice versa. I guess the question is - when do they move from children to adults?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow, living in the past and proud of it. Because of my height and basketball and volleyball skills, I had some cute nicknames. But why go back to high school to have a nickname? Maybe a nickname from your Dad or Mom is cute in middle age, but other than that I prefer my given name and not childish nicknames from my youth


When I came to the neighborhood kickball game in the side alley, the boys sang, "Shrimpboats are a-comin'." That's my story. Of course, a couple of years later, it was fun to be a short girl - liked to call it petite. Now I'm even shorter, but no longer petite. Doggonit!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

off2knit - I noticed you were commenting on dyes. My friend likes using Kool Aid to dye with her grandchildren but mainly uses halcyon dyes for her projects. Have you used them and what do you think is the best dye for wool, mohair & alpaca?
Thanks,


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

When do they move from children to adults? Depends on the person. Some mature earlier. Some never grow up.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> off2knit - I noticed you were commenting on dyes. My friend likes using Kool Aid to dye with her grandchildren but mainly uses halcyon dyes for her projects. Have you used them and what do you think is the best dye for wool, mohair & alpaca?
> Thanks,


I am with you I"d like to know too. It would be interesting to try it. How are you doing today? Did you have a nice day off yesterday?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I am with you I"d like to know too. It would be interesting to try it. How are you doing today? Did you have a nice day off yesterday?


Hi Yarnie - I had a great day yesterday. My cousin came up for dinner and we had a good visit. He got back from Thailand last week so had lots of catching up to do.

What have you been up to? How is your vest coming along? I pulled out my notes for my scarf pattern and found out my memory isn't as great as I thought it was (getting old!). Oh well, I wanted to make another one anyway, so I'm working my way thru the first section.

Off to work soon. Hope everyone has a great day.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Watching tv.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I draw the line at children. The adults are supposed to protect the children, not vice versa. I guess the question is - when do they move from children to adults?


I think the children in the US during WWII collected aluminum foil, sent care packages, supporting the Red Cross, etc. I never heard of actual participant as a soldier. But, in Europe the situation was different. Children were in the middle of the action.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> off2knit - I noticed you were commenting on dyes. My friend likes using Kool Aid to dye with her grandchildren but mainly uses halcyon dyes for her projects. Have you used them and what do you think is the best dye for wool, mohair & alpaca?
> Thanks,


I love the Dharma Trading Company's dyes. They are better than Jaquards (sp?) and cheaper


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

double post


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

My daddy was in the 9th grade when he joined the Navy. Fought in WW2. So did my fil. They left school to join. Too young but even the children wanted to help win the war. Just babies.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Actually, Off2Knits is right. This topic was supposed to be a friendly one. So far, people have done a better job than in some other places, but it has drifted away from friendly and chatty. I'm as guilty as anyone.


I know what you mean. I just think it is rude how the libs can't leave this thread alone. I think I was told that this thread was started because people like Bratty and Susan were so vicious on another thread that people came here for fun chat. But they seem to be so vindictive that they can't stay on loll but get thrills up their legs being nasty here. It is just plain sad.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My daddy was in the 9th grade when he joined the Navy. Fought in WW2. So did my fil. They left school to join. Too young but even the children wanted to help win the war. Just babies.


They were so patriotic. My dad was too old to be drafted, so he enlisted in the Army Air Corps, later Air Force. He was the oldest in his group, said he'd never have made the ten-mile runs without his buddies yelling, "You can do it, Brooks!" (last name) He became a bomber pilot. I've always been so proud of him for doing that. I know you're proud of your dad, too. It's very admirable - duty and love of country.

Don't see those two - duty and love of country - hangin' around much any more.

I just happened to think how lucky we were to be raised by fathers like that.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I still think that one year will hurt our military force. By 18 years old, that person is in charge of their own life. Parental control is at a minimum. Kids are immature these days. But, I find that kids who go into the military at 18 really want and need to go. They earnestly look forward to going.
> 
> Some men are not mature by 30, 40, 60...
> 
> Most importantly: The military will help boys become men!


This is what else is happening in the military that is making strong men and women.

Pentagon Study Finds 26,000 Military Sexual Assaults Last Year, Over 70 Sex Crimes Per Day
A shocking new report by the Pentagon has found that 70 sexual assaults may be taking place within the U.S. military every day. The report estimates there were 26,000 sex crimes committed in 2012, a jump of 37 percent since 2010. Most of the incidents were never reported. The findings were released two days after the head of the Air Forces sexual assault prevention unit, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Krusinski, was arrested for sexual assault. We air...
May 08, 2013 | STORY


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> This is what else is happening in the military that is making strong men and women.
> 
> Pentagon Study Finds 26,000 Military Sexual Assaults Last Year, Over 70 Sex Crimes Per Day
> A shocking new report by the Pentagon has found that 70 sexual assaults may be taking place within the U.S. military every day. The report estimates there were 26,000 sex crimes committed in 2012, a jump of 37 percent since 2010. Most of the incidents were never reported. The findings were released two days after the head of the Air Forces sexual assault prevention unit, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Krusinski, was arrested for sexual assault. We air...
> May 08, 2013 | STORY


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Double post by mistake. Worthy of more than one read. Democracy Now for more information.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I know what you mean. I just think it is rude how the libs can't leave this thread alone. I think I was told that this thread was started because people like Bratty and Susan were so vicious on another thread that people came here for fun chat. But they seem to be so vindictive that they can't stay on loll but get thrills up their legs being nasty here. It is just plain sad.


Mean girls and bullies will always be just that. They can't stand to be nice, especially to each other, for any length of time. They come here and pounce on whoever is available. It is sad.

I think it was Rick Warren who said: "our culture has accepted 2 huge lies:

1) is that if you disagree with someone's lifestyle, you must fear or hate them, and

2) is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do.

Both are nonsense. You don't have to compromise convictions to be compassionate."


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. No children participated directly in the war in this country. But, there were rations. That effected children


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


The assaults are happening throughout the military, not just in war zones. Sexual assault is more than bad behavior.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical.


I'm not sure about that--women serve in combat roles in Germany, Australia, and Canada, and apparently their male compatriots manage to keep their hands to themselves.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> They were so patriotic. My dad was too old to be drafted, so he enlisted in the Army Air Corps, later Air Force. He was the oldest in his group, said he'd never have made the ten-mile runs without his buddies yelling, "You can do it, Brooks!" (last name) He became a bomber pilot. I've always been so proud of him for doing that. I know you're proud of your dad, too. It's very admirable - duty and love of country.
> 
> Don't see those two - duty and love of country - hangin' around much any more.
> Yes we are proud our daddy's served . They both were great men that made a good living even tho they didn't finish high school. There are still some heros around. We had a sleese stealing military foot stones off the graves for the brass. I am so thankful my daddy's wasn't stolen . Jerk! He was about 50 something. I hope he gets time for it. Sorry I posted inbetween you post Bonnie.
> ...


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> This is what else is happening in the military that is making strong men and women.
> 
> Pentagon Study Finds 26,000 Military Sexual Assaults Last Year, Over 70 Sex Crimes Per Day
> A shocking new report by the Pentagon has found that 70 sexual assaults may be taking place within the U.S. military every day. The report estimates there were 26,000 sex crimes committed in 2012, a jump of 37 percent since 2010. Most of the incidents were never reported. The findings were released two days after the head of the Air Forces sexual assault prevention unit, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Krusinski, was arrested for sexual assault. We air...
> May 08, 2013 | STORY


Living in VA I know many vets, and they are as outraged over these assaults as all of us (maybe even more because the believe it could be a reflection on them)

Question: Why the huge jump in assaults since 2010? What has changed?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Hi Yarnie - I had a great day yesterday. My cousin came up for dinner and we had a good visit. He got back from Thailand last week so had lots of catching up to do.
> 
> What have you been up to? How is your vest coming along? I pulled out my notes for my scarf pattern and found out my memory isn't as great as I thought it was (getting old!). Oh well, I wanted to make another one anyway, so I'm working my way thru the first section.
> 
> Off to work soon. Hope everyone has a great day.


It was a good day than, thats nice when a family member returns. 
panic on vest today thought I was short 8 stitiches, reread instructions add more stitches in another 8 rows. So releif, must really learn not to read so far ahead I lose site of row on.
Oh I just know you will figure out the scarf pattern.

How is the weather up there? we are to have rain tonight, been at least 7 days since last rain, don't relly want any more.

Listen this morning to committee on Bengazi, those men who are called whistle blower, proud of them. Even when confront by some who were only going along party lines, and not searching for the truth they stood by their stories. Also some of the other party seem to like to sneer shake their heads, and even smile at what these men where saying I did not understand. You would think they would want the truth to come out to. Such is life.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh west coast kitty does your husband like meat loaf. really good one in the low salt cookbook. Made tonight with roasted vegs. ground chicken and ground beef, with bar a que sauce on top. yummy.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure about that--women serve in combat roles in Germany, Australia, and Canada, and apparently their male compatriots manage to keep their hands to themselves.


I googled that and couldn't find any articles or statistics that would confirm or deny your statement. Could it be that those other countries don't make those statistics available?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Living in VA I know many vets, and they are as outraged over these assaults as all of us (maybe even more because the believe it could be a reflection on them)
> 
> Question: Why the huge jump in assaults since 2010? What has changed?


Partly it is the courage of women to report, (which many still do not do), another factor is the actions taken by legal assistance representing victims for military to investigate reported assaults. Also reported assault(s) at Air Force Academy that recently came to light.

The question is why do men rape? And why do they get away with it?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


you are so right it not just the military any more. i agree that women should not be serving beside the men.

I was reading the other day that Great Britian is starting to have the same problems.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I googled that and couldn't find any articles or statistics that would confirm or deny your statement. Could it be that those other countries don't make those statistics available?


Hmm...according to the Canadian Minister of National Defense there were 170 reported incidents in 2008.

In Australia Steven Smith, the Defense Minister, issued a formal apology in 2012 for the roughly 700 cases reported over some 60 years.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> you are so right it not just the military any more. i agree that women should not be serving beside the men.
> 
> I was reading the other day that Great Britian is starting to have the same problems.


So, we should not expect military men to control themselves just because women are serving along side them?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So, we should not expect military men to control themselves just because women are serving along side them?


Judging by some of the posts, apparently not. Kind of a scary thought when you remember that these same men are authorized to kill.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


The term thugs applied to the Occupy movement is interesting in that the number of reported assaults does not reach the number of 70 per day reported in the military. I am not excusing any assault by any man. Probably the term thugs should be equally applied to all men who sexually assault women.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Judging by some of the posts, apparently not. Kind of a scary thought when you remember that these same men are authorized to kill.


So are the women authorized to kill, so what is your point?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The term thugs applied to the Occupy movement is interesting in that the number of reported assaults does not reach the number of 70 per day reported in the military. I am not excusing any assault by any man. Probably the term thugs should be equally applied to all men who sexually assault women.


Again what has changed since 2010 that has escalated the assaults almost 40%? If you don't know the answer how can we solve the problem?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So are the women authorized to kill, so what is your point?


That a pronounced lack of control in one area of a soldier's life inevitably spills over into others.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Again what has changed since 2010 that has escalated the assaults almost 40%? If you don't know the answer how can we solve the problem?


This is an excerpt from the interview about the assaults posted on Democracy Now. Read the entire interview it is very revealing.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: What do you think accounts for the rise, almost 40 percent, you said? Is it because more were reported or more occurred, or a combination?

ANURADHA BHAGWATI: I think, honestly, it has to do with this groundswell of support from the outside, from outside of the military, from congressional leadership over the last year or two, the groundswell of media attention on this issue. The military cant hide this issue anymore, and therefore victims inside the military feel a little bit safer that theres a community out there that is going to support them and that finally believes them. I mean, this has been happening for decades. But finally theres a sense that, "OK, Im not alone. People believe me. They say Im a liar, but Im not. People believe me out there."


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That a pronounced lack of control in one area of a soldier's life inevitably spills over into others.


So with that bizarre logic, women should then also be sexually assaulting me. If they have a license to kill, and lack control in their some other area of their lives, should not women also be committing these felonies?

Tick tock, just love the sound of today's clock.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So with that bizarre logic, women should then also be sexually assaulting me.


What a horrific thought! It's the stuff of nightmares.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> you are so right it not just the military any more. i agree that women should not be serving beside the men.
> 
> I was reading the other day that Great Britian is starting to have the same problems.


I think so many parents are not teaching right from wrong, installing consciences in their children. Drugs and alcohol are also factors. Both sexes think nothing of binge drinking. I think there are also too many young people with anger issues. When I was growing up, I know there were kids who had beer parties, but I remember more mothers at home when the kids got home from school, more dads who were the breadwinners, and fewer kids that walked around with a chip on their shoulder and wanting to fight. Happier kids probably, or if not happier more control of their emotions.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure about that--women serve in combat roles in Germany, Australia, and Canada, and apparently their male compatriots manage to keep their hands to themselves.


Susan it does happen in other countries military but to a much lesser degree than in the U.S. Especially disturbing is the large increase in rape and sexual assult in the military academies. I blame parents who do not teach their sons to respect women. Too many parents let their sons off easy with the good old boy's notion that boys will be boys. Any idiot with a penis can commit rape but a real man respects women and doesn't let loose his baser instincts. If my own child did such a thing he would have me to deal with and if he doesn't know how to use it he could lose it. I think pig is a good description for men who carry on like animals and to say it's OK because others do it is pathetic. Teach your children well and such things would not be a problem. Yes, women have as much right to serve as men do in combat or any other role in the military.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> This is an excerpt from the interview about the assaults posted on Democracy Now. Read the entire interview it is very revealing.
> 
> NERMEEN SHAIKH: What do you think accounts for the rise, almost 40 percent, you said? Is it because more were reported or more occurred, or a combination?
> 
> ANURADHA BHAGWATI: I think, honestly, it has to do with this groundswell of support from the outside, from outside of the military, from congressional leadership over the last year or two, thhe groundswell of media attention on this issue. The military cant hide this issue anymore, and therefore victims inside the military feel a little bit safer that theres a community out there that is going to support them and that finally believes them. I mean, this has been happening for decades. But finally theres a sense that, "OK, Im not alone. People believe me. They say Im a liar, but Im not. People believe me out there."


Until recently, women and men did not mix as much in the military. Women were in all female units and served in more limited capacities with less exposure to male soldiers. Male roles were more likely combat oriented where female roles were more support oriented. Now society has pushed for more rights for women to serve equally. Maybe it can not work. Maybe males can't handle that in our society. My grandfather was not in the service, but he was one of 9 boys (no sisters). He was raised well and was a fine man, but I do remember him saying one time, "Men are basically animals. Women civilize the world." I know many nice men with self control, but women do set goals for male behavior. We teach them what is acceptable behavior whether they are our husbands, lovers, or sons. Some men either don't learn it or were never taught.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I think so many parents are not teaching right from wrong, installing consciences in their children. Drugs and alcohol are also factors. Both sexes think nothing of binge drinking. I think there are also too many young people with anger issues. When I was growing up, I know there were kids who had beer parties, but I remember more mothers at home when the kids got home from school, more dads who were the breadwinners, and fewer kids that walked around with a chip on their shoulder and wanting to fight. Happier kids probably, or if not happier more control of their emotions.


So, we have angry men sexually assaulting fellow soldiers. What accounts for the military commanders not supporting the assaulted women and disciplining the rapists?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So, we have angry men sexually assaulting fellow soldiers. What accounts for the military commanders not supporting the assaulted women and disciplining the rapists?


I guess women are still second class citizens.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I am so thankful those 3 girls were released from their hell from those (that evil) men from Ohio. I think they should just let the mama tend to them. I know I would give them the justice they deserve. Poor babies. Can't imagine what they went thru. I can't even watch the news when it comes on. Makes me sick!Special place in hell reserved them!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Until recently, women and men did not mix as much in the military. Women were in all female units and served in more limited capacities with less exposure to male soldiers. Male roles were more likely combat oriented where female roles were more support oriented. Now society has pushed for more rights for women to serve equally. Maybe it can not work. Maybe males can't handle that in our society. My grandfather was not in the service, but he was one of 9 boys (no sisters). He was raised well and was a fine man, but I do remember him saying one time, "Men are basically animals. Women civilize the world." I know many nice men with self control, but women do set goals for male behavior. We teach them what is acceptable behavior whether they are our husbands, lovers, or sons. Some men either don't learn it or were never taught.


So if we get women out of combat sexual assault in the military will cease? If women civilize, then we should have fewer assaults in the military? If the female soldiers set goals for the male soldiers in their units rape would end?


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Until recently, women and men did not mix as much in the military. Women were in all female units and served in more limited capacities with less exposure to male soldiers. Male roles were more likely combat oriented where female roles were more support oriented. Now society has pushed for more rights for women to serve equally. Maybe it can not work. Maybe males can't handle that in our society. My grandfather was not in the service, but he was one of 9 boys (no sisters). He was raised well and was a fine man, but I do remember him saying one time, "Men are basically animals. Women civilize the world." I know many nice men with self control, but women do set goals for male behavior. We teach them what is acceptable behavior whether they are our husbands, lovers, or sons. Some men either don't learn it or were never taught.


Men have to be TAUGHT that rape is wrong? They know its wrong alright, but some low life's just do it anyway.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So if we get women out of combat sexual assault in the military will cease? If women civilize, then we should have fewer assaults in the military? If the female soldiers set goals for the male soldiers in their units rape would end?


 :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So with that bizarre logic, women should then also be sexually assaulting me. If they have a license to kill, and lack control in their some other area of their lives, should not women also be committing these felonies?
> 
> Tick tock, just love the sound of today's clock.


off2knit you are sick and the one with bizarre logic. Do you really think women would want to rape you?

Oh, and your tick tock clock are you now the crocodile in Peter Pan? 
By the way what happened to your count down to the big Benghazi reveal you were expecting today. How is that working out for you? GOP just used and abused these three men who knew the ambassador and the others killed, none of these witnesses were even in Benghazi and nothing new came out. Oops, is that egg on your face? You just can't catch a break can you?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I think so many parents are not teaching right from wrong, installing consciences in their children. Drugs and alcohol are also factors. Both sexes think nothing of binge drinking. I think there are also too many young people with anger issues. When I was growing up, I know there were kids who had beer parties, but I remember more mothers at home when the kids got home from school, more dads who were the breadwinners, and fewer kids that walked around with a chip on their shoulder and wanting to fight. Happier kids probably, or if not happier more control of their emotions.


I think we were happier kids, we knew we were loved, are mom's where always there for us, and Dad knew when to draw the line. I think it is harder for parents now days in some ways, with having to work outside the home children left alone for too many hours. How many kids have now become lack key kids, come home to empty houses, and wait for their parents to get home. There is no talking things out any more. Some parent are just to tired to care, as to work and running around putting children in every program such as dance karate, sports, there is no time just to sit and talk with these kids. It's really sad.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am so thankful those 3 girls were released from their hell from those (that evil) men from Ohio. I think they should just let the mama tend to them. I know I would give them the justice they deserve. Poor babies. Can't imagine what they went thru. I can't even watch the news when it comes on. Makes me sick!Special place in hell reserved them!


I am too, but also sad that one girls mother did not live long enough to see her daughter return. They said she never lost faith that her daughter was still alive.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Why don't the left know about bounderies? You have 3 others places to play but you come here just to start trouble. I don't understand.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am too, but also sad that one girls mother did not live long enough to see her daughter return. They said she never lost faith that her daughter was still alive.


I didn't know I just can't watch all the gory details . Disgusting evil.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> off2knit you are sick and the one with bizarre logic. Do you really think women would want to rape you?
> 
> Oh, and your tick tock clock are you now the crocodile in Peter Pan?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't know I just can't watch all the gory details . Disgusting evil.


I know but i still had to see what was happening. I am just glad that they are free, and do hope the press will leave them alone now they need time to heal, and be with their families. It's sad to think that someone so evil could do it, but then the world has become an evil place. Wrong is right and right now has become wrong.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes, it's happening everywhere.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This is what else is happening in the military that is making strong men and women.
> 
> Pentagon Study Finds 26,000 Military Sexual Assaults Last Year, Over 70 Sex Crimes Per Day
> A shocking new report by the Pentagon has found that 70 sexual assaults may be taking place within the U.S. military every day. The report estimates there were 26,000 sex crimes committed in 2012, a jump of 37 percent since 2010. Most of the incidents were never reported. The findings were released two days after the head of the Air Forces sexual assault prevention unit, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Krusinski, was arrested for sexual assault. We air...
> May 08, 2013 | STORY


It's happening everywhere.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


Wise words, Knit crazy.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

So with that bizarre logic, women should then also be sexually assaulting me. If they have a license to kill, and lack control in their some other area of their lives, should not women also be committing these felonies? 

Tick tock, just love the sound of today's clock.

Have a blessed day
"Ronald Reagan did not spend his entire first term blaming Jimmy Carter! He rolled up his sleeves and put America back to work."



I think you should keep the Obama avatar off. I bet your face has a big old frown on it today just like President Obama's. Keep trying maybe you will get lucky yet. TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy wrote:
These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.


Wise words, Knit crazy.

bonbf3


What's wise about it? You raise your sons up to act like animals that's what you will get. I didn't raise my son that way did you? Why do you make excuses for this behavior?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watch me NOT respond to Cheeky B. Good night, ladies.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Sleep tight Bonnie.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nite there lady, have to go too. so all have a pleasant night and restful sleep.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I love the Dharma Trading Company's dyes. They are better than Jaquards (sp?) and cheaper


Thanks very much Off2knit.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> So, we have angry men sexually assaulting fellow soldiers. What accounts for the military commanders not supporting the assaulted women and disciplining the rapists?


Good question. More boys will be boys?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Knit crazy wrote:
> These statistics are a strong argument for women not serving in battle with men, not an indictment of the military in general. We need a strong military, but to expect perfect gentlemen when we don't raise perfect gentlemen is illogical. I've seen bad behavior displayed by many men that are not military personnel - football players, frat boys, lawyers, salesmen, and Occupy Wall Street thugs. Battle by its nature seems to brutalize men and women. But, battle doesn't only happen in the military.
> 
> Wise words, Knit crazy.
> ...


Whose making excuse? Understanding causes isn't condoning it.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh west coast kitty does your husband like meat loaf. really good one in the low salt cookbook. Made tonight with roasted vegs. ground chicken and ground beef, with bar a que sauce on top. yummy.


Your dinner definitely sounds yummy. My copy should be in at bookstore in a couple of weeks and then I'll let dh decide what we should try first. Had left over roast pork and veggies tonight. Always make roast pork when my cousin visits - it's his favourite and he takes a big care package back with him. He's single and eats a lot of sandwiches and convenience foods when on his own. Lucky, he has great friends that invite him over most Sundays and he comes to our place every few weeks and his mom comes to visit a couple of times a year. He does eat healthy when he goes to Thailand though - mainly rice, fish & veggies.

Glad you got your vest sorted out; will we see it soon?

Sounds like there is still a lot of uncertainty with Benghazi. Such horrific violence with these terrorist groups. Several groups have been arrested in Can. but without the terrible loss of life the US has had recently. We have lost a lot of our soldiers in Afghanistan


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> So if we get women out of combat sexual assault in the military will cease? If women civilize, then we should have fewer assaults in the military? If the female soldiers set goals for the male soldiers in their units rape would end?


Cease? No, that is an unrealistic goal. If we did a better job teaching our sons, there might be less violence. Angry men become violent men. Women could make a difference only if we had more of them in leadership roles. I guess there are two realistic options: (1) bring more women into the military, wait for them to get the power to make changes, and try to civilize the men, who should have learned self-control in their formative years. (2) keep men separate from women because if they didn't get self-control in their formative years, but it is nearly impossible to teach it to fully formed personalities. Neither are great options. We could ask that all offenders be immediately removed, but some women will suffer as victims before that happens. We should focus our power where it does the most good, on our sons and grandsons. In my experience, we can't do much for men over which we have no influence. Husbands and sons love us, so they listen to us. Strangers don't. Work superiors can influence subordinates and friends can influence friends. We can be good role models of self-control, kind to others, and strong in our belief that men should treat women with respect.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am so thankful those 3 girls were released from their hell from those (that evil) men from Ohio. I think they should just let the mama tend to them. I know I would give them the justice they deserve. Poor babies. Can't imagine what they went thru. I can't even watch the news when it comes on. Makes me sick!Special place in hell reserved them!


I can't even begin to imagine the horrors they went thru - also thankful that they were rescued and returned home to their families as were the other victicms rescued the last few years. Prayers for their healing and the strength and support they need to restore their lives.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Cease? No, that is an unrealistic goal. If we did a better job teaching our sons, there might be less violence. Angry men become violent men. Women could make a difference only if we had more of them in leadership roles. I guess there are two realistic options: (1) bring more women into the military, wait for them to get the power to make changes, and try to civilize the men, who should have learned self-control in their formative years. (2) keep men separate from women because if they didn't get self-control in their formative years, but it is nearly impossible to teach it to fully formed personalities. Neither are great options. We could ask that all offenders be immediately removed, but some women will suffer as victims before that happens. We should focus our power where it does the most good, on our sons and grandsons. In my experience, we can't do much for men over which we have no influence. Husbands and sons love us, so they listen to us. Strangers don't. Work superiors can influence subordinates and friends can influence friends. We can be good role models of self-control, kind to others, and strong in our belief that men should treat women with respect.


I think we can demand that offenders be prosecuted and dishonorably discharged. I have called and communicated with my legislators (actually it is a Northern California Congresswoman who started the push for investigations). Would you join the call for justice?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I can't even begin to imagine the horrors they went thru - also thankful that they were rescued and returned home to their families as were the other victicms rescued the last few years. Prayers for their healing and the strength and support they need to restore their lives.


I hope they get alot of help and the press will leave them alone. I am agreeing with you on praying for the Father to heal their there hurts and fears. Praying for them to be strong and get the right kind of support for them. Praying their trust will return to help their hearts and minds heal in Jesus Name I pray. Thank you Lord for them being found and watching over them while they were kidnapped. We give you the Glory lord Jesus for what you are doing in the girls lives.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I think we can demand that offenders be prosecuted and dishonorably discharged. I have called and communicated with my legislators (actually it is a Northern California Congresswoman who started the push for investigations). Would you join the call for justice?


Prosecuting offenders in a military court should happen.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Cease? No, that is an unrealistic goal. If we did a better job teaching our sons, there might be less violence. Angry men become violent men. Women could make a difference only if we had more of them in leadership roles. I guess there are two realistic options: (1) bring more women into the military, wait for them to get the power to make changes, and try to civilize the men, who should have learned self-control in their formative years. (2) keep men separate from women because if they didn't get self-control in their formative years, but it is nearly impossible to teach it to fully formed personalities. Neither are great options. We could ask that all offenders be immediately removed, but some women will suffer as victims before that happens. We should focus our power where it does the most good, on our sons and grandsons. In my experience, we can't do much for men over which we have no influence. Husbands and sons love us, so they listen to us. Strangers don't. Work superiors can influence subordinates and friends can influence friends. We can be good role models of self-control, kind to others, and strong in our belief that men should treat women with respect.


It take as good man and father to show a son how to be a good man and father. How many of these young men are from homes where there was no father or nothing but a series of men that mom hooked up with over the years of his formative life? Ladies, could some of this be our making?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

What I see are parents who are choosing not to discipline their children. There are various reasons. One reason is that they think their child is the most special child in the world. They do not understand that you need to raise your child to live in the world. That their child is only special to them. Too many parents are not putting in the effort to discipline their children. It is rampant. And disgusting.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Thumper, how is it "our making"? It is the decision of each woman that chooses to live that way, without caring about the consequences. There are wonderful single moms (and dads) out there doing their best. Getting a good male role model, grandfather, uncle, coach, clergy....to help her with her child's guidance. They should be saluted from the mountain tops. They are the role models


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> It take as good man and father to show a son how to be a good man and father. How many of these young men are from homes where there was no father or nothing but a series of men that mom hooked up with over the years of his formative life? Ladies, could some of this be our making?


Yes, lots of women are choosing to have children without marrying first, and raising children is hard for one person to do without help. That is foolish if you can help it, and sure starts kids off with a disability. But, there are also women raising children alone and doing the best they can.

My own daughter is a prime example. She was married for 21 years to a man she kept trying to fix. She married at 23 and waited till 31 to have her son. Her ex-husband preferred to work at jobs that didn't pay a great deal. He had 2 years college, but didn't want to expend the effort to finish. He refused to learn to cook and would not clean. He liked sports and weightlifting, and spent a lot of time doing that and attending racing events. My daughter got her MBA and became the breadwinner. He stalked her after the divorce and keyed up her car. The police couldn't control him. She finally had a parental assessment done by a psychologist ($7K), who said he was not parental material. He is Narcisstic and has an undetermined personality disorder. That means he is not fixable. Now she has full physical and legal custody of her son. She makes good money, has a good job, and has good values. Her son is modeling himself on her, not his father, and on my husband, his grandfather, who is a good man. Sometimes, civilizing a man is not possible, and they should not be anywhere close to their children. The psychologist called my ex-SIL malevolent. There will always be men that are just bad. Too bad the courts have moved more toward father's rights, and are not considering women's and children's rights.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Your daughter sounds like a strong woman.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Final C Span had the whole Benghazi commitee and I saw almost all of it. It started at 9:00 last night, but in the last half hour(11:30) was starting to fall a sleep. There was more than Foxs put out. To much news happening yesterday and Fox reported the other things. There were some Democrats that were nice enough, and ask good questions, and thank the men who brought the truth out. Their was a lot missed by Fox and other Tv news cast.. I am so mad at the man that was from Madison, what ugly words and this is his first year in Congress. Hope he is not reelected again. Hope all can see the full meeting. May change alot of peoples opinions on what really happen. One Women a dem said she would hire the assit embassador again and asign him any place he wanted to go. It was nice to see that some put poltic aside and dealt with the issues. They prove with out a doubt that Clinton was inform about it two hour's after it started.The assit Embassador was ask What were the last words, Of Embassador's Stevens They were, we are under terrorist attack. Also assit Embassador ask that a military plane be sent to Benghazi in the first few hours, the military was told to stay down. But when plane left with out military men, was to late. One of the military men who was not allowed to leave said the A. embassador had more balls then the whole military, as he sent plane any way He had another call saying Stevens was dead, and he started to cry. It seem Stevens body was taken to a hospital controled by the muslim brotherhood. This was of great consire as they feared they would not get his body back. The secertary of Libya step in and throught much negotiation was able to get body return to US. Also This Secertary went on TV and said it was a terrorist attack. Then Susan Rice went on Talk shows and said it had to do with video. This upset all consired. The Libya Secertary then refuse because of what was said to allow FBI into Libya,as This administration had embarrass him and his country, so compound was not secured for 10 days and informatation was lost. As money was spent by President to make apologys for a video, and continue for up to ten day,even into UN speech it inflamed the problem with Liyban leaders more. The compound was also not brought up to the needed security it should have had. It had been requested by Stevens even before attack happen, but was never approved. Also as the British were attack a week before and their staff was with drawn committe wanted to know why Our people where not removed, and why especial when it was 9/11 why security was not beef up, as Clinton was advise about this. Also at the time of this happening the President and staff watch it live on TV and yet nothing was pass on what was to be done. 
The one thing I will say against the Republican party is they cut money that was to be used to build up protection of Embassasy around the world and this I fault them for. 

None of this should have happen and as far as I can see,nothing was done, and as Assit Embassaddor said they could have gotten someone there, at 4 hours after this started. Yet these men fought on for 10 hours. All I can say is why and Clinton being the Secretary in charge is as guilt as is the President for sweeping it under the rug, and the Republican party is to blame for not giving addeqate funding to protect all the embrassys around the world. 
I also am proud of the three men who step forth and told the truth of what happen with the cost of lossing the years they served our country. I also saw their compassion for the lost of Stevens, and the other personal. To see men cry about what was done had to soften hearts that heard it. I know I cried, and as I post this now have tears. What a waste of four lives, that need not have happen.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Good question. More boys will be boys?


You may have found a good place to start to reduce the number of men who think violence against women in any form is unacceptable. Let's stop saying "boys will be boys" when they behave in certain ways. Of course boys will be boys, but sometimes we shrug off things they do that really need attention. Of course, this means that parents have to be more involved in raising their children instead of letting daycare and television raise them. This won't take care of the ntire problem, but it just might make a big dent in it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I listened to an analyst about this. Basically, it is a cover-up by Obama/Obama's Administration because of the upcoming election. It would hurt him. 

Obama is not such a nice guy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Has it ever occurred to you that someone might be sending false clues so you can snap at the air? If you can go anywhere, anyone can. Chill pills.



off2knit said:


> They do not need your advice.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At this point, military courts should be avoided, don't you think?



Knit crazy said:


> Prosecuting offenders in a military court should happen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pedophiles have been known to capitalize on the children of single parents offering to take the children to special events and serve as role models. Such a complicated world we inhabit.



off2knit said:


> Thumper, how is it "our making"? It is the decision of each woman that chooses to live that way, without caring about the consequences. There are wonderful single moms (and dads) out there doing their best. Getting a good male role model, grandfather, uncle, coach, clergy....to help her with her child's guidance. They should be saluted from the mountain tops. They are the role models


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Thumper, how is it "our making"? It is the decision of each woman that chooses to live that way, without caring about the consequences. There are wonderful single moms (and dads) out there doing their best. Getting a good male role model, grandfather, uncle, coach, clergy....to help her with her child's guidance. They should be saluted from the mountain tops. They are the role models


Why would they be role models? Children deserve a dad just as much as they do a mother. Having one does not negate the other. Differences in gender does not only apply to the physical.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I listened to an analyst about this. Basically, it is a cover-up by Obama/Obama's Administration because of the upcoming election. It would hurt him.
> 
> Obama is not such a nice guy.


Cover up of which subject? Bqnghazi or sexual assaults?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You make me laugh. Thanks.



Lukelucy said:


> I listened to an analyst about this. Basically, it is a cover-up by Obama/Obama's Administration because of the upcoming election. It would hurt him.
> 
> Obama is not such a nice guy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> It take as good man and father to show a son how to be a good man and father. How many of these young men are from homes where there was no father or nothing but a series of men that mom hooked up with over the years of his formative life? Ladies, could some of this be our making?


Some of this could indeed be of our own making, but it takes more than having a good father in the picture. There are single moms with extended families who make positive contributions to her and her children. If a single mom doesn't have a good support system and makes bad choices, too, these things will impact her children. They are always along for the ride with whatever happens around them. They can't walk away and take care of themselves.

A big problem that I see is that we don't have any really good answers about making sure as many parents as possible are good parents. By the time someone becomes a parent, they are already formed and will do what they've already learned is right.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> At this point, military courts should be avoided, don't you think?


Aren't members of our military services governed by the rules of those services? How should they be tried? In a military court, obviously. That's part of the deal for anyone who chooses to join the military.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Think a minute. The head of a Pentagon program to address the problem has been arrested for groping a woman in the Pentagon parking lot. It is admitted that the military overall has been unable to rid itself of a 'good ole boys' attitude.

I think it is better to remove the issue from the military in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. We may all learn something.

Opinions, please.



SeattleSoul said:


> Aren't members of our military services governed by the rules of those services? How should they be tried? In a military court, obviously. That's part of the deal for anyone who chooses to join the military.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Think a minute. The head of a Pentagon program to address the problem has been arrested for groping a woman in the Pentagon parking lot. It is admitted that the military overall has been unable to rid itself of a 'good ole boys' attitude.
> 
> I think it is better to remove the issue from the military in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. We may all learn something.
> 
> Opinions, please.


Actually Canada and Great Britain, fearing the military chain of command will keep sexual assault cases from being heard, do refer them to civilian courts. Here's an interesting link:
http://servicewomen.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Learning-From-Our-Allies_Final.pdf


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Think a minute. The head of a Pentagon program to address the problem has been arrested for groping a woman in the Pentagon parking lot. It is admitted that the military overall has been unable to rid itself of a 'good ole boys' attitude.
> 
> I think it is better to remove the issue from the military in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. We may all learn something.
> 
> Opinions, please.


Maureen Dowd's column pretty much says it all about trusting anything on this issue to military discipline.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Hello Country B. how is your day going? We are having a few rain drops. We are off later today to buy a prefab, chixie coop. Have to put new babies in there as the older ones have a pecking order and may harm little ones. So glad villiage allows chixes even when just 10 miles from Capital.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I am doing great Yarnie. I am eating my salad with some fresh eggs on top. Yummy. Wish I had chickens but living in the woods too many varmints. I have seen those prefab coops. Neat. Is it on a trailor that can be moved around? Forgot my mother got my fresh brown eggs from her hair dresser. :lol:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I had salad to with cashew nuts. 
Just told we are not getting coop today because of rain. It's made of ceder, but hubby will have to put it together. Think the new baby Chixs will like it. When old enough the older ones will move in to. 
Nothing like fresh eggs, so much better than ones that sit on shelf for a while. 
We have varimets to here. My hubby use to raise fancy pigeons, and mink got into coop and killed them all. I hate minks as they don't just kill for food, they kill for the sport I think. 27 pigeons died. It was a mess.Plus one that died i had just put back in coop after nuring her bacck to health. She was a parlor tumbler,and they are so neat. They roll instead of flying.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I would love some chickens, but can't have them here. I get them from a farm along with some raw milk. You are lucky if you can have chickens.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I would love some chickens, but can't have them here. I get them from a farm along with some raw milk. You are lucky if you can have chickens.


How are you doing today lady?
I know, as we are so close to Madison, didn't think we could, but here in the villiage they allow it. Villiage it is growing like mad, should be called a city. 
We go up to Amish farms to get chicken freshly killed. Also go to their grocery store. They also have a bakery that is only open on fridays, and saturdys and oh what good baked bread. But I am in love with the sticky buns. There is always a long line, but they bake all day. They use solor planels to run ovens. I also love the garden shops, fresh veg.s in the fall. Plus the sewing and furnitue and quilt shops. It's lovely just to drive through the area.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Oh, you are so lucky to be able to do what you described! I wish I could do that, too. Sticky buns... They have the most beautiful quilts. 

Hope you are well today.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

WOW Bonnie you were teaching "critical thinking" skills and not underestimating the brains capacity to learn. Nor were you fearful of going out of the prescribed curriculum and taking those fortunate kiddies to another level. And how interesting to them. Betcha lots of them developed a curiosity and love of math.

What the World Needs Now ........are more teachers like you. Can we clone you????



bonbf3 said:


> RUKnitting - that's so nice of you - and you're right - the beauty of math is that there are correct answers. Truth! And math is so much fun to teach to six-year olds. Everything is new to them. Once we were working with a number line. It started at zero. I asked them, "What's on the other side of zero?" "Nothing!!" they shouted. I shushed them, and spoke in a whisper. "Don't tell anybody I told you this because you're not supposed to learn about this until fourth grade! BUT - there are numbers on the other side of zero!" Then I showed them some negative numbers. You'd have thought it was Christmas! One of my favorite teaching moments. Nothing compares to watching kids learn. And it's so easy if you just start where they are and use their natural curiosity. (Too long again. Can you tell I miss it? Good thing I have a lot of grandkids!)


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Agree re: The Pontifs. Let's agree to keep this Magical and Fun.



off2knit said:


> Your topic belongs in a different thread. From what I understand, this thread was created for fun chat between friends not to be a place of angst. So I am sure your saintly pontification will be appreciated elsewhere


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> How are you doing today lady?
> I know, as we are so close to Madison, didn't think we could, but here in the villiage they allow it. Villiage it is growing like mad, should be called a city.
> We go up to Amish farms to get chicken freshly killed. Also go to their grocery store. They also have a bakery that is only open on fridays, and saturdys and oh what good baked bread. But I am in love with the sticky buns. There is always a long line, but they bake all day. They use solor planels to run ovens. I also love the garden shops, fresh veg.s in the fall. Plus the sewing and furnitue and quilt shops. It's lovely just to drive through the area.


 Now I am wanting to come spent the day with you!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

you all can and sticky buns for all. Sorry to rub it in. But when fresh out of the oven a bit of ohhhhhhhh so wonderful.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> WOW Bonnie you were teaching "critical thinking" skills and not underestimating the brains capacity to learn. Nor were you fearful of going out of the prescribed curriculum and taking those fortunate kiddies to another level. And how interesting to them. Betcha lots of them developed a curiosity and love of math.
> 
> What the World Needs Now ........are more teachers like you. Can we clone you????


couldn't agree with you more wish she had been my teacher, maybe would have behaved better.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Agree re: The Pontifs. Let's agree to keep this Magical and Fun.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> you are so right it not just the military any more. i agree that women should not be serving beside the men.
> 
> I was reading the other day that Great Britian is starting to have the same problems.


Then why not just keep the sexes separate all together? In the military as well as civilian life. In all work environments. Men rape because it is a power trip for them, it's not about the sex.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you all can and sticky buns for all. Sorry to rub it in. But when fresh out of the oven a bit of ohhhhhhhh so wonderful.


Oh, I love those! Problem is they stick to my buns.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Think a minute. The head of a Pentagon program to address the problem has been arrested for groping a woman in the Pentagon parking lot. It is admitted that the military overall has been unable to rid itself of a 'good ole boys' attitude.
> 
> I think it is better to remove the issue from the military in order to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. We may all learn something.
> 
> Opinions, please.


This will only put the burden of the trial on an already overburdened system. The civilian jails are overflowing, so punishment will probably not include jail time. I would leave it with the military.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I understand clearly. They are the adult knitting bullies much like those our youth are dealing with today in schools, etc.. Theirs is a psychological need to destroy and conquer. They are unable to allow others to have their space. Unable to participate in friendly discourse. Rather they must intrude where they are not welcome. Also known as Party Crashers.

Feel sorry for them because these attributes are representative of how they live their daily lives.

quote=Country Bumpkins]Why don't the left know about bounderies? You have 3 others places to play but you come here just to start trouble. I don't understand.[/quote]


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Raining here today. Just enough to get everything wet. I have the youngest 2 (5 & 3 1/2) grandkids for the weekend. Wish the sun was shining. I get to eat alot of pretend food.


These are great ages to do simple cooking activities. Muffins, small pizzas, fruit salads and smoothies. Molly Katzen has two wonderful children's cookbooks. Salad People and Pretend Soup. Many libraries have them and I have found copies at thrift stores also.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Here is one of the quilts that I won a 3rd place with at the state fair. I haven't found the pictures of the one I won a blue with. It's my own design. It was a challenge quilt with a pen pal. We each had 4 fat quarters of the same fabric and could add something of our own chosing. It was fun.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is one of the quilts that I won a 3rd place with at the state fair. I haven't found the pictures of the one I won a blue with. It was a challenge quilt with a pen pal. We each had 4 fat quarters of the same fabric and could add something of our own chosing. It was fun.


Girlllll you got talent. Nice!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Me too??


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

damemary said:


> At this point, military courts should be avoided, don't you think?


If they are military men, I think they have to be tried in a military court. Not sure if an alternative is possible. Certainly, this behavior is a violation of their code of conduct, and if both the perpetrator and victim are military personnel, the trial could not be held in a civil court.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Oh, I love those! Problem is they stick to my buns.


oh you you funny buns you. :roll: ;-)


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is one of the quilts that I won a 3rd place with at the state fair. I haven't found the pictures of the one I won a blue with. It's my own design. It was a challenge quilt with a pen pal. We each had 4 fat quarters of the same fabric and could add something of our own chosing. It was fun.


Oh that is beautiful Thumper. So many talented women on here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Raining here today. Just enough to get everything wet. I have the youngest 2 (5 & 3 1/2) grandkids for the weekend. Wish the sun was shining. I get to eat alot of pretend food.


rain all day here to . Have fun with the little ones. Have a nice pretend meal. :wink:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Raining here today. Just enough to get everything wet. I have the youngest 2 (5 & 3 1/2) grandkids for the weekend. Wish the sun was shining. I get to eat alot of pretend food.


Oh what fun!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Finally saw the sun today. We probably had 4" of rain in the past few days. Now the sun is out and I am sure the grass will be 4 feet high by tomorrow.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Nothing like fresh eggs, so much better than ones that sit on shelf for a while.
> We have varimets to here. My hubby use to raise fancy pigeons, and mink got into coop and killed them all. I hate minks as they don't just kill for food, they kill for the sport I think. 27 pigeons died. It was a mess.Plus one that died i had just put back in coop after nuring her bacck to health. She was a parlor tumbler,and they are so neat. They roll instead of flying.


I get fresh eggs too, the chickens are free range so the yolks are beautiful bright yellow. Most of the eggs are brown, but egglady has 1 type that lays blue eggs and she tries to put 1 blue egg in each carton (doesn't taste any different). She puts chicken wire deep into ground so racoons can't dig under and string with reflector tape across the top so hawks and eagles don't come down.

Hope chicks enjoy their new home.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is one of the quilts that I won a 3rd place with at the state fair. I haven't found the pictures of the one I won a blue with. It's my own design. It was a challenge quilt with a pen pal. We each had 4 fat quarters of the same fabric and could add something of our own chosing. It was fun.


your quilt is absolutely gorgeous - so much admiration for the creative work that goes into them


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is one of the quilts that I won a 3rd place with at the state fair. I haven't found the pictures of the one I won a blue with. It's my own design. It was a challenge quilt with a pen pal. We each had 4 fat quarters of the same fabric and could add something of our own chosing. It was fun.


Lovely!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thumper What a masterpiece in colors and design.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Thumper, that quilt is lovely - you are so talented. :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I find that free range eggs take longer to hard-boil. Shows the difference in the egg. I love fresh from the farm eggs. Must go get some.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jusst for fun-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=======================================================??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I know some will get this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
____________________________________--
:shock: :shock: :shock: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

For all you current and retired teachers, my Dad always emphasized that we were in school, not only to learn specific things, but "to learn how to learn". Pretty formidable task, I think, but I had many teachers who managed to do just that. Let's hear some cheering for all the teachers out there, current and past :!: :thumbup: :!: 

If you have special memories of a favorite teacher, share them with us. I'll catch up soon with a story of my own.  :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am so thankful those 3 girls were released from their hell from those (that evil) men from Ohio. I think they should just let the mama tend to them. I know I would give them the justice they deserve. Poor babies. Can't imagine what they went thru. I can't even watch the news when it comes on. Makes me sick!Special place in hell reserved them!


TOPICS
Ohio, Sexual Assault
GUESTS
Eric Sandy, staff writer at the Cleveland Scene, a weekly newspaper.

Jaclyn Friedman, executive director of Women, Action, and the Media and editor of the anthology, Yes Means Yes!: Visions of Female Sexual Power & A World Without Rape.

RELATED
Addressing the Epidemic of Military Sexual Assault
May 09, 2013 | COLUMNS & ARTICLES
Pentagon Study Finds 26,000 Military Sexual Assaults Last Year, Over 70 Sex Crimes Per Day
May 08, 2013 | STORY
Steubenville Rape Trial: Blogger Who Exposed Case Speaks Out After Ohio Teens Found Guilty
Mar 18, 2013 | STORY
Vandana Shiva on Intl Womens Day: "Capitalist Patriarchy Has Aggravated Violence Against Women"
Mar 08, 2013 | STORY
LINKS
Jaclyn Friedmans Website
"Yes Means Yes: Visions of Female Sexual Power and a World Without Rape." By Jaclyn Friedman. (Seal Press)
"Toxic Masculinity." By Jaclyn Friedman. (The American Prospect)
Women, Action and the Media
DONATE →This is viewer supported news
PRINTER-FRIENDLY
Cleveland kidnap victims Amanda Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michele Knight were allegedly subjected to years of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of suspect Ariel Castro. Questions are now being raised why the police did not investigate Castro more closely earlier, especially since Castro was accused in 1993 and 2005 of attacking his ex-wife Grimilda Figueroa. According to court documents, Castro apparently broke her nose and ribs, dislocated her shoulders, knocked out one of her teeth and battered her so badly that a blood clot formed in her brain. Jaclyn Friedman, executive director of Women, Action, and the Media and editor of the anthology, "Yes Means Yes!: Visions of Female Sexual Power & A World Without Rape," says the Cleveland case is "an extreme example of a pervasive dynamic in our culture which is one of toxic masculinity." Friedman explains: "It really expresses something that we see all over the culture, which is men trained to think that the way to be a man is to have power over and to dehumanize women." We also speak to Cleveland reporter Eric Sandy.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

Country...
This is just a small excerpt from a news report and interview on the Cleveland kidnappings.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. As we are broadcasting now, for our TV viewers, we are showing images of the courtroom where Ariel Castro is about to be arraignedthe suspect in the Cleveland kidnappings and rapes. He has been charged with four counts of kidnapping, three counts of rape, so far. Im Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

To talk more about the Cleveland kidnappings, were joined by Jaclyn Friedman, executive direction of Women, Action, and the Media and editor of the anthology, Yes Means Yes!: Visions of Female Sexual Power & A World Without Rape. Eric Sandy is still on the line with us from Cleveland. Hes a staff writer at the Cleveland Scene, a weekly newspaper.

Jaclyn, talk about what you have been writing about right now.

JACLYN FRIEDMAN: Well, I really see this case as an extreme example of a pervasive dynamic in our culture, which is one of toxic masculinity. Its our dominant construction of masculinity, and it really expresses itself as masculinity constructed as power over women, women being dehumanized, being sort of things for use by men for pleasure or other purposes. So, its really easy to focus on this guy as a monster and an outlier, but it really expresses something that we see all over the culture, which is men trained to think that the way to be a man is to have power over and to dehumanize women.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Jaclyn Friedman, your response when you hear of the role of the police department previously in this case, or the law enforcement inwith Ariel Castro having severely beaten his former wife, nevernever being brought to justice for that case?

JACLYN FRIEDMAN: Well, it doesnt surprise me at all, right? Theres a continuum of violence. And its easy to put all the attention on this one case, and sometimes I think its counterproductive, right? When we start paying attention to the fact that a man breaks his wife or his ex-wifes nose and theres all kinds of media and police attention to that, well be getting somewhere.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

C Span yesterday committee on military handling on reportes about Rape, and what can be done.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, I'm not sure that the Cleveland kidnapping incident is purely an example of toxic masculinity or the general sense of entitlement we seem to encourage in our boys and which they take into adulthood. That man seems to be way beyond toxic.

The man in Cleveland acted way outside of the "average" degree of male entitlement and even of toxic masculinity. He is one sick human being and his crimes seem more indicative of mental illness (or whatever the current PC term is), and that he is part of a group of men whose earliest negative behavior was never addressed and/or dealt with. 

Unfortunately, parents would usually be the first to notice behavior that is so way over the line, and they may be ill-equiped to recognize and do anything about their boys' completely unacceptable behavior. And what parent wants to conclude that their child is a budding psychopath?

What can be done? Let's discuss the subject of the earliwst training boys get, and the kinds of examples of acceptable male behavior they see and experience before they're old enough to understand what they experience. It seems to me that these earliest experiences form the platform for all the rest of how we raise boys tp become men, and what kind of men they will become.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Peacegoddess, I'm not sure that the Cleveland kidnapping incident is purely an example of toxic masculinity or the general sense of entitlement we seem to encourage in our boys and which they take into adulthood. That man seems to be way beyond toxic.
> 
> The man in Cleveland acted way outside of the "average" degree of male entitlement and even of toxic masculinity.


I agree that the man is a major sicko, but all you have to do is look at the Taliban to realize that men in some societies don't have a problem with imprisoning women. Afghani women lived under house arrest for years before anything was done about it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yarnlady you never cease to amaze me. How creative of you. And I think I have figured out the answer. Very clever!!!!



theyarnlady said:


> jusst for fun-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=======================================================??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> I know some will get this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ____________________________________--
> :shock: :shock: :shock: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Raining here today. Just enough to get everything wet. I have the youngest 2 (5 & 3 1/2) grandkids for the weekend. Wish the sun was shining. I get to eat alot of pretend food.


At least that keeps the waist line in check. :-D Have fun with the GKs.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

What does the psycho in Cleveland have to do with the Military and the rapes?

Sexual Assaults in the military are important to recognize and punish. But to link them with the Cleveland guy is just plain too bizarre to understand and comment on


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What does the psycho in Cleveland have to do with the Military and the rapes?
> 
> Sexual Assaults in the military are important to recognize and punish. But to link them with the Cleveland guy is just plain too bizarre to understand and comment on


I agree. The situation in Cleveland is unusually brutal and long-term. Dreadful.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

What about the apology by Obama's IRS stating that they targeted the Tea Party? If the organization had tea or patriot in their name they got flagged. Even Juan Williams on The Five today was appalled and furious over this. This is just wrong and probably illegal.

I just wonder what is about to happen that forced the IRS's hand to make this apology? 

Another reason that I have no respect for Obama and his administration.

WWRRD


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> What does the psycho in Cleveland have to do with the Military and the rapes?
> 
> Sexual Assaults in the military are important to recognize and punish. But to link them with the Cleveland guy is just plain too bizarre to understand and comment on


Because it is all violence against women.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I have beens, busy with ripping out my knting vest again.I Really mess it ups, oh well, it won'ts be long before I am done.

DOes any one know how to use colored lettering would like to try it.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Because it is all violence against women.


The only thing they have in common is violence. You are assuming that all sexual assaults in the military are against women.

No person should have violent things done to them, no matter the manner it is done. But to group these two stories makes no sense. Castro is so mentally deranged there probably isn't a category created yet.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> The only thing they have in common is violence. You are assuming that all sexual assaults in the military are against women.
> 
> No person should have violent things done to them, no matter the manner it is done. But to group these two stories makes no sense. Castro is so mentally deranged there probably isn't a category created yet.


i would say a man who rapes is mentally deranged also. What else explains it?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Yes, lots of women are choosing to have children without marrying first, and raising children is hard for one person to do without help. That is foolish if you can help it, and sure starts kids off with a disability. But, there are also women raising children alone and doing the best they can.
> 
> My own daughter is a prime example. She was married for 21 years to a man she kept trying to fix. She married at 23 and waited till 31 to have her son. Her ex-husband preferred to work at jobs that didn't pay a great deal. He had 2 years college, but didn't want to expend the effort to finish. He refused to learn to cook and would not clean. He liked sports and weightlifting, and spent a lot of time doing that and attending racing events. My daughter got her MBA and became the breadwinner. He stalked her after the divorce and keyed up her car. The police couldn't control him. She finally had a parental assessment done by a psychologist ($7K), who said he was not parental material. He is Narcisstic and has an undetermined personality disorder. That means he is not fixable. Now she has full physical and legal custody of her son. She makes good money, has a good job, and has good values. Her son is modeling himself on her, not his father, and on my husband, his grandfather, who is a good man. Sometimes, civilizing a man is not possible, and they should not be anywhere close to their children. The psychologist called my ex-SIL malevolent. There will always be men that are just bad. Too bad the courts have moved more toward father's rights, and are not considering women's and children's rights.


I'm glad your daughter has done so well. It's a huge job, and she sounds like a very strong woman. It must be hereditary. I agree, a grandfather can be a wonderful role model.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> The only thing they have in common is violence. You are assuming that all sexual assaults in the military are against women.
> 
> No person should have violent things done to them, no matter the manner it is done. But to group these two stories makes no sense. Castro is so mentally deranged there probably isn't a category created yet.


I am not assuming all sexual assaults in the military are against women. Perhaps you have information about sexual assaults on men...by men ? By women?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Final C Span had the whole Benghazi commitee and I saw almost all of it. It started at 9:00 last night, but in the last half hour(11:30) was starting to fall a sleep. There was more than Foxs put out. To much news happening yesterday and Fox reported the other things. There were some Democrats that were nice enough, and ask good questions, and thank the men who brought the truth out. Their was a lot missed by Fox and other Tv news cast.. I am so mad at the man that was from Madison, what ugly words and this is his first year in Congress. Hope he is not reelected again. Hope all can see the full meeting. May change alot of peoples opinions on what really happen. One Women a dem said she would hire the assit embassador again and asign him any place he wanted to go. It was nice to see that some put poltic aside and dealt with the issues. They prove with out a doubt that Clinton was inform about it two hour's after it started.The assit Embassador was ask What were the last words, Of Embassador's Stevens They were, we are under terrorist attack. Also assit Embassador ask that a military plane be sent to Benghazi in the first few hours, the military was told to stay down. But when plane left with out military men, was to late. One of the military men who was not allowed to leave said the A. embassador had more balls then the whole military, as he sent plane any way He had another call saying Stevens was dead, and he started to cry. It seem Stevens body was taken to a hospital controled by the muslim brotherhood. This was of great consire as they feared they would not get his body back. The secertary of Libya step in and throught much negotiation was able to get body return to US. Also This Secertary went on TV and said it was a terrorist attack. Then Susan Rice went on Talk shows and said it had to do with video. This upset all consired. The Libya Secertary then refuse because of what was said to allow FBI into Libya,as This administration had embarrass him and his country, so compound was not secured for 10 days and informatation was lost. As money was spent by President to make apologys for a video, and continue for up to ten day,even into UN speech it inflamed the problem with Liyban leaders more. The compound was also not brought up to the needed security it should have had. It had been requested by Stevens even before attack happen, but was never approved. Also as the British were attack a week before and their staff was with drawn committe wanted to know why Our people where not removed, and why especial when it was 9/11 why security was not beef up, as Clinton was advise about this. Also at the time of this happening the President and staff watch it live on TV and yet nothing was pass on what was to be done.
> The one thing I will say against the Republican party is they cut money that was to be used to build up protection of Embassasy around the world and this I fault them for.
> 
> None of this should have happen and as far as I can see,nothing was done, and as Assit Embassaddor said they could have gotten someone there, at 4 hours after this started. Yet these men fought on for 10 hours. All I can say is why and Clinton being the Secretary in charge is as guilt as is the President for sweeping it under the rug, and the Republican party is to blame for not giving addeqate funding to protect all the embrassys around the world.
> I also am proud of the three men who step forth and told the truth of what happen with the cost of lossing the years they served our country. I also saw their compassion for the lost of Stevens, and the other personal. To see men cry about what was done had to soften hearts that heard it. I know I cried, and as I post this now have tears. What a waste of four lives, that need not have happen.


That was a great summary of what went on. Thank goodness some Obama and Hilary supporters are standing up for the truth - and good for them. It's not easy at all when someone you admire does something awful. Those who supported them probably feel worse than those of us who didn't.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I listened to an analyst about this. Basically, it is a cover-up by Obama/Obama's Administration because of the upcoming election. It would hurt him.
> 
> Obama is not such a nice guy.


You are right. He and Hilary have let down a lot of people - namely their supporters, who were lied to along with the rest of us. I hope there are appropriate consequences.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Has it ever occurred to you that someone might be sending false clues so you can snap at the air? If you can go anywhere, anyone can. Chill pills.


I don't know who's talking to you, Off2Knit, but if it's the person in the photo, you can't believe a word she says. Proven.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What about the apology by Obama's IRS stating that they targeted the Tea Party? If the organization had tea or patriot in their name they got flagged. Even Juan Williams on The Five today was appalled and furious over this. This is just wrong and probably illegal.
> 
> I just wonder what is about to happen that forced the IRS's hand to make this apology?
> 
> ...


I wonder if the IRS scandal has been put out to distract us - once again - from the even more scandalous Benghazi massacre. Not gonna happen - Pandora's box is open, and it's not pretty.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Yarnlady you never cease to amaze me. How creative of you. And I think I have figured out the answer. Very clever!!!!


Sorry - my tired brain couldn't begin to try this. Maybe tomorrow. You're too smart for me, Yarnie. But you're so sweet, I don't mind admitting it.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I have beens, busy with ripping out my knting vest again.I Really mess it ups, oh well, it won'ts be long before I am done.
> 
> DOes any one know how to use colored lettering would like to try it.


I know the feeling about ripping out. I had to rip out about 8 inches on my shell, and have finally recovered it. Seems like a waste of time sometimes, but I want it to be right. I think that I have given up on beading it. I can't find green beads that are the right color. I am looking for a pattern for a cocoon shrug with dolman sleeves. I have enough matching yarn for it. Saw a purchased one that I loved. I want to knit it sleeve to sleeve rather than bottom to top.

I don't understand the question about colored lettering. Can you explain the project it is for?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I have beens, busy with ripping out my knting vest again.I Really mess it ups, oh well, it won'ts be long before I am done.
> 
> DOes any one know how to use colored lettering would like to try it.


Yarnie - Sorry about your vest - but sounds like you're just about done. Look forward to seeing it.

For the lettering - do you mean duplicate stitch on top of your knitting or knitting letters into your project?

Did you and dh get the new house put together for chicks?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> i would say a man who rapes is mentally deranged also. What else explains it?


If that were true, it is not to the level of mental illness of Castro. So if you say all rapists are like Castro and use him as the poster boy, no one else will be considered a rapist because they are nothing like him.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> If that were true, it is not to the level of mental illness of Castro. So if you say all rapists are like Castro and use him as the poster boy, no one else will be considered a rapist because they are nothing like him.


Poster boy? All rapists equal to Castro? Not my words. However, if rapists are not mentally unbalanced to some degree then how do we explain rape?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

No but pairing the two stories you have made Castro rapes equal with sexual assaults in the military. They are separate issues, and should be kept that way.

You seem very passionate about this topic, and I do not want to minimize the brutalization or horror of rape. Castro belongs in his own select group; probably with the likes of Bundy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> No but pairing the two stories you have made Castro rapes equal with sexual assaults in the military. They are separate issues, and should be kept that way.
> 
> You seem very passionate about this topic, and I do not want to minimize the brutalization or horror of rape. Castro belongs in his own select group; probably with the likes of Bundy.


I see your point to a degree. However i doubt Castro began full force as we now see him. Rape and the acts of Castro et all are about violence and degradation of women. Those are the reasons for the "pairing". And remember these are not my sentiments alone, woman who work on this issue see the similarities. The military rapes, the Castro kidnappings and all such acts are attacks on women and girls. We abhor them all and look for solutions to all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I see your point to a degree. However i doubt Castro began full force as we now see him. Rape and the acts of Castro et all are about violence and degradation of women. Those are the reasons for the "pairing". And remember these are not my sentiments alone, woman who work on this issue see the similarities. The military rapes, the Castro kidnappings and all such acts are attacks on women and girls. We abhor them all and look for solutions to all.


I think there are similarities and differences. Castro is indeed a deeply disturbed person. There are reasons. There are always reasons. Sometimes we hate the bad guy so much that we don't want to know there are reasons, but they are there. Even he was once an innocent and helpless baby. Hard to imagine, isn't it?

I'm not defending his actions at all. As adults, we are responsible for our actions. But what in the world twisted this guy's thinking and turned him into a cruel and truly heartless rapist and killer?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I think can be born with tendencies that manifest themselves when they are older. Genetics is a major contributor to behavior - then poor conditions in upbringing are the other contributor. Do not underestimate genetics.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I think can be born with tendencies that manifest themselves when they are older. Genetics is a major contributor to behavior - then poor conditions in upbringing are the other contributor. Do not underestimate genetics.


Yes. Sometimes it seems people are born bad. We have so much to learn about personality. Maybe some day we'll be able to identify people who are predisposed and counteract that.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think there are similarities and differences. Castro is indeed a deeply disturbed person. There are reasons. There are always reasons. Sometimes we hate the bad guy so much that we don't want to know there are reasons, but we all started out as innocent and helpless babies.


I am unsure of the point of your statement regarding starting out as innocent babies. Remember the article I posted said the Cleveland kidnappings are an extreme example. By the way did you happen to go to the site and read the entire interview? Very enlightening.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I asked a world renown person, "Which is it. Nature or nurture?" They told me, at that time, the latest thinking was 60% nature and 40% nurture. 

I don't know if thinking has changed. But, my wise mother always said that it is in your genes.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes. Sometimes it seems people are born bad. We have so much to learn about personality. Maybe some day we'll be able to identify people who are predisposed and counteract that.


There are indicators. However, what mother wants to admit that their child is evil? That applies equally to male and female. Men are not the only evil ones.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper,

So true on both counts. Women and men can both be evil. And it is so true - what mother will admit to her child being evil - or even poorly behaved.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes. Sometimes it seems people are born bad. We have so much to learn about personality. Maybe some day we'll be able to identify people who are predisposed and counteract that.


Lukelucy wrote:
I think can be born with tendencies that manifest themselves when they are older. Genetics is a major contributor to behavior - then poor conditions in upbringing are the other contributor. Do not underestimate genetics.

Yes. Sometimes it seems people are born bad. We have so much to learn about personality. Maybe some day we'll be able to identify people who are predisposed and counteract that.

New post different from two above:

So, do you think it is more nature than nurture that results in rape and brutality? This is an interesting beginning to a discussion.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I asked a world renown person, "Which is it. Nature or nurture?" They told me, at that time, the latest thinking was 60% nature and 40% nurture.
> 
> I don't know if thinking has changed. But, my wise mother always said that it is in your genes.


Women don't 'nurture' much anymore. Look at the numbers of children that are in daycare daily as young as 6 weeks. It's so sad.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Women don't 'nurture' much anymore. Look at the numbers of children that are in daycare daily as young as 6 weeks. It's so sad.


Daycare does not create brutal rapists, so can we not go there with this discussion. Nurture is not only a family, but a culture also.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know, of course. But, first, before I would label it genetics, I would want to know what went on in this guys family/house when he was growing up. That would be my first question.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Daycare does not create brutal rapists, so can we not go there with this discussion. Nurture is not only a family, but a culture also.


I disagree. Also, how do you know? Do you have any statistical data to support your statement? There are loads of statistics that show that men from fatherless homes are more likely to commit crimes, be abusive, or be absentee fathers themselves.

But yet we, as a society, continue to throw money at the situation. Realistically, has it helped or alleviated the situation? No. We've made it worse. Have women, as the ones that bear the children, changed how we view motherhood? Yes, and not much good can be said about that.

An infant knows its mother from a very early age. They are not the 'blank slate' that so many would like to think they are. They know who they grew in and came out of.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I totally agree with Thumper. Babies are much more (maybe even more so than older kids) "absorbent" than people think. 

I know a child who at five years old was already ruined in my mind (ruined by her parents). I made a comment to someone else (never to the mother or father) in the family and they said, "She is only a baby". I never said a word after that. This child is ruined and people think because she is five years old that she is fine "because she is a baby". NOT SO. 

Also, there have been day care places that have been shut down because of a lot of bad things happening there.
Babies can be "ruined" in their first year of life by parents. The parents are the LAST to know - they don't want to know.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit Crazy, West coast Kitty,

Sorry about the spelling was trying to let someone know I know what they were saying.

Vest was almost done when I came to instructions that said I should have 178 stitches. Only had 156. Reread instructions and had skip adding stitches for four rows.I really have to be more careful about skipping pass instructions like that. Had to rip 17 rows out. When I started again notice two rows down that I had a stitch I did not like so rip some more. 

As Knit crazy said can't stand having mistakes. But all is fine now and will get it done until next mistake. I also did not add as to pattern it has opening like lace but is a cable too. Hope I get done before next year. :~)


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I totally agree with Thumper. Babies are much more (maybe even more so than older kids) "absorbent" than people think.
> 
> I know a child who at five years old was already ruined in my mind (ruined by her parents). I made a comment to someone else (never to the mother or father) in the family and they said, "She is only a baby". I never said a word after that. This child is ruined and people think because she is five years old that she is fine "because she is a baby". NOT SO.
> 
> ...


Not all day care centers are equal in good or bad care, neither are all stay at home moms/dads. There are children who have been removed from their homes because the parents who have had them for the first years are neglectful and bad things have happened to them.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not all day care centers are equal in good or bad care, neither are all stay at home moms/dads. There are children who have been removed from their homes because the parents who have had them for the first years are neglectful and bad things have happened to them.


I'm not speaking of good or bad daycare centers. I'm saying that the _use_ of daycare is bad. Period.

Yes, there are children that have been removed from their homes because of neglectful parents. Not as many have as should be in my never to be humble opinion. And once they've been removed they should be permanently removed and put into a good forever home. Kids are not something that can be batted around just so some so-called adult can feel good. The kids deserve better, much better.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree that the man is a major sicko, but all you have to do is look at the Taliban to realize that men in some societies don't have a problem with imprisoning women. Afghani women lived under house arrest for years before anything was done about it.


Afghani culture and Muslim beliefs are another subject we could discuss. I tend to believe that we have neither the right nor obligation to change the beliefs of another religion or society by destroying same. Yet it seems that's what we're as we are doing our best to destroy the Taliban. While I can't possibly support the Taliban, I don't think much of destroying Afghanistan, and believe Afghanis themselves are the people who should change their own society.

I realize what I've just said leaves out the entire subject of reducing and/or eliminating terrorism and several other important issues. More than one country on the planet is producing terrorists at an alarming rate, and we even have our own "home grown" terrorists. I'm at a loss to propose some way of dealing with terrorism altogether, but I'm sure other people who participate in this topic probably have a lot to say about that,


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm not speaking of good or bad daycare centers. I'm saying that the _use_ of daycare is bad. Period.
> 
> Yes, there are children that have been removed from their homes because of neglectful parents. Not as many have as should be in my never to be humble opinion. And once they've been removed they should be permanently removed and put into a good forever home. Kids are not something that can be batted around just so some so-called adult can feel good. The kids deserve better, much better.


Not everyone can stay home for the first five very formative years of a child's life. Explore the foster parent programs in your area and you will find that finding good homes for foster children is difficult in all areas of the U S.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not everyone can stay home for the first five very formative years of a child's life. Explore the foster parent programs in your area and you will find that finding good homes for foster children is difficult in all areas of the U S.


Why 'foster' them? If the home is bad let them be put up for adoption immediately. There would be more takers than you think. I've seen too many cases where a child has been in a foster home for years and the foster family wants to adopt and the 'natural' parent all of a sudden wants them back. These get mired in the courts and the child is put in another home during the court battle. Children are not as adaptable as they used to think.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not everyone can stay home for the first five very formative years of a child's life. Explore the foster parent programs in your area and you will find that finding good homes for foster children is difficult in all areas of the U S.


Why are they having children then? Oh, that's right. It's all about them. :hunf:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Why 'foster' them? If the home is bad let them be put up for adoption immediately. There would be more takers than you think. I've seen too many cases where a child has been in a foster home for years and the foster family wants to adopt and the 'natural' parent all of a sudden wants them back. These get mired in the courts and the child is put in another home during the court battle. Children are not as adaptable as they used to think.


Many prospective adoptive parents want a baby. the older a child gets the more difficult it is for them to be adopted.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I think can be born with tendencies that manifest themselves when they are older. Genetics is a major contributor to behavior - then poor conditions in upbringing are the other contributor. Do not underestimate genetics.


I agree. It's interesting to see how personalities run through a family - grandma's sense of humor, uncle henry's math mind, etc.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am unsure of the point of your statement regarding starting out as innocent babies. Remember the article I posted said the Cleveland kidnappings are an extreme example. By the way did you happen to go to the site and read the entire interview? Very enlightening.


I thought people were discussing rapists and Castro. I was merely saying that in the beginning, we are very similar to one another in the sense that we are helpless to do anything for ourselves and innocent of any wrongdoing. Does that make sense? 
So - from a similar starting point - we get rapists, humanitarians, musicians, scientists, and Castro. Many factors influence our development, and I find that interesting.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Does anyone remember "The Bad Seed" in the 1950's. It dealt with inherited criminality of Rhonda. Her mother was intending to write a book about it. The doctor said there were atavistic, consciousless minds that inherited a tendency to criminality. At one time this was a classic read in psychology courses.

The human brain continues to be underestimated. At the moment of birth it continues its' spongelike affinity for soaking up information. I believe this begins in uterro and there is much we can do to promote the learning process in the not yet born infant.

We have also learned much about the plasticity of the brain which is present from birth to death. I always find it demeaning to the brain to compare it to a computer.



thumper5316 said:


> An infant knows its mother from a very early age. They are not the 'blank slate' that so many would like to think they are. They know who they grew in and came out of.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Many prospective adoptive parents want a baby. the older a child gets the more difficult it is for them to be adopted.


You need to do a little research into the reasons for this. It's not as much as there not being someone that would want to adopt them as it is policies that make it difficult or just plain downright block permanency.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper,

I agree with you. Kids should have mothers that mother and not day care places. Mom's should stay home with their babies/infants. I think it builds security and a generally mentally healthy child.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Why are they having children then? Oh, that's right. It's all about them. :hunf:


Thumper,

Please help me to understand where you are coming from:

If a couple's birth control fails , resulting in a pregnancy and they cannot afford for either parent to stay at home with the baby and young child what are they to do? I think I recall you being anti choice, (please correct me if I am incorrect on this) so abortion is not an option. So the higher earning parent continues with his or her job and the other remains at home so they do not appear selfish if they choose day care. What if that one job really is not paying the basic bills and the second job maybe half time helps pay the basic bills and the part time childcare. I am not talking about an extravagant lifestyle, simply the basics. What if a couple is married, has a child and for any number of life instances such as death, divorce, crippling injury, there is only one parent to earn a salary and daycare is necessary? These are realistic situations and your condemnation of child care and parents who choose child care sounds like a negative judgement.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> You need to do a little research into the reasons for this. It's not as much as there not being someone that would want to adopt them as it is policies that make it difficult or just plain downright block permanency.


So what accounts for babies being adopted and not older children? You quote your sources.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Thumper,
> 
> Please help me to understand where you are coming from:
> 
> If a couple's birth control fails , resulting in a pregnancy and they cannot afford for either parent to stay at home with the baby and young child what are they to do? I think I recall you being anti choice, (please correct me if I am incorrect on this) so abortion is not an option. So the higher earning parent continues with his or her job and the other remains at home so they do not appear selfish if they choose day care. What if that one job really is not paying the basic bills and the second job maybe half time helps pay the basic bills and the part time childcare. I am not talking about an extravagant lifestyle, simply the basics. What if a couple is married, has a child and for any number of life instances such as death, divorce, crippling injury, there is only one parent to earn a salary and daycare is necessary? These are realistic situations and your condemnation of child care and parents who choose child care sounds like a negative judgement.


As I recall the average work day is 8 hours and there are 24 hours in a day. Why do both parents have to work the same 8 hours?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So what accounts for babies being adopted and not older children? You quote your sources.


Google is a powerful tool. Try it as I'm not your research assistant.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So what accounts for babies being adopted and not older children? You quote your sources.


Most people who can't have babies and want a baby would like to adopt a baby. That's one reason. Another is that children who have been in foster care or who are older when adopted often have emotional and behavior problems that require attention.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> I agree with you. Kids should have mothers that mother and not day care places. Mom's should stay home with their babies/infants. I think it builds security and a generally mentally healthy child.


How much time have you spent in a wide variety of child care centers?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I know what it meant to me to have a mother at home. It meant everything.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> How much time have you spent in a wide variety of child care centers?


How many children have you given stay-at-home mother care?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Google is a powerful tool. Try it as I'm not your research assistant.


 :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> As I recall the average work day is 8 hours and there are 24 hours in a day. Why do both parents have to work the same 8 hours?


Not all jobs have shifts. It must be nice to have all the answers for everyone. I do not think you are my research assistant, just asked for your sources I know what mine are and much of the info you state is not the only source as there are divergent facts on the issue.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> How many children have you given stay-at-home mother care?


I am a mother and I have also worked at day care centers.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> As I recall the average work day is 8 hours and there are 24 hours in a day. Why do both parents have to work the same 8 hours?


Did you read my entire post? What if something happens and there is only one parent?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I know what it meant to me to have a mother at home. It meant everything.


It did to me, too. We were lucky.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am a mother and I have also worked at day care centers.


I was a stay-at-home mother for twenty years and taught kindergarten and first grade for thirteen years after that. I have two stay-at-home mothers in the family and one who works part-time with grandmothers providing child care. One of my daughters worked part time while earning her master's degree, juggling her schedule so that she was home with the children as she was raising them alone at that time.

Among the women in my family, we have little experience with day care except through friends and my students, but we have a lot of experience and with juggling difficult schedules and with children.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Poster boy? All rapists equal to Castro? Not my words. However, if rapists are not mentally unbalanced to some degree then how do we explain rape?


Rape is about power, not sex. The power the rapist has over the woman.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> How much time have you spent in a wide variety of child care centers?


What's your point? Are you suggesting that daycare is just as good as being home with mom or dad?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Did you read my entire post? What if something happens and there is only one parent?


I'm sure that you can find another 'but, what about...' for anything I say. I stand by my premise that a child is best with a parent. As the adults they should be able to be creative about how to make that happen. Most don't even try.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm sure that you can find another 'but, what about...' for anything I say. I stand by my premise that a child is best with a parent. As the adults they should be able to be creative about how to make that happen. Most don't even try.


Yes, and believe me, there are a lot of people out there who could make it on one salary but who don't want to give up the luxuries. There are some who have to work very hard to make ends meet, but there are plenty who could manage with less. For some, it's not a matter of survival, it's a matter of priorities.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Many prospective adoptive parents want a baby. the older a child gets the more difficult it is for them to be adopted.


True, especially the more that child has been shuffled around from home to home.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I was a stay-at-home mother for twenty years and taught kindergarten and first grade for thirteen years after that. I have two stay-at-home mothers in the family and one who works part-time with grandmothers providing child care. One of my daughters worked part time while earning her master's degree, juggling her schedule so that she was home with the children as she was raising them alone at that time.
> 
> Among the women in my family, we have little experience with day care except through friends and my students, but we have a lot of experience and with juggling difficult schedules and with children.


Your daughter was fortunate to have such wonderful family support. I am sure she values your help. Not everyone has such fortunate situations and day care is a necessity.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm sure that you can find another 'but, what about...' for anything I say. I stand by my premise that a child is best with a parent. As the adults they should be able to be creative about how to make that happen. Most don't even try.


We do not live in an ideal world. Being at home with children during the first five years is the ideal and some people have to cope with their reality which is not the ideal. Why condemn them as being less than good parents?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, and believe me, there are a lot of people out there who could make it on one salary but who don't want to give up the luxuries. There are some who have to work very hard to make ends meet, but there are plenty who could manage with less. For some, it's not a matter of survival, it's a matter of priorities.


I agree, I see people who prefer the best of things and their children are not their primary concern. Those folks are not the ones I am speaking about.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

When I was a kid, women did not work like they do now. Woman's Lib changed all that. Now women "need to work" to make the household run. What is wrong with staying home and bringing up your children. 

Frankly, people really don't need those added luxuries (that spoil their kids) and I think it would be better to have mom's stay at home. 

Women going out in the work force changed our economy. Women spend a lot of money (clothing, gas) when they work.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Your daughter was fortunate to have such wonderful family support. I am sure she values your help. Not everyone has such fortunate situations and day care is a necessity.


It was complicated. We were lucky. We all have different circumstances. We don't always get our "first choice." So then we go to Plan B and make it the best possible. I think it helps to think of a Plan B not as worse, but as different. Another option - and the one that worked best.

Of course, easy to say. All parenting involves tough decisions, hard work, and long hours.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> When I was a kid, women did not work like they do now. Woman's Lib changed all that. Now women "need to work" to make the household run. What is wrong with staying home and bringing up your children.
> 
> Frankly, people really don't need those added luxuries (that spoil their kids) and I think it would be better to have mom's stay at home.
> 
> Women going out in the work force changed our economy. Women spend a lot of money (clothing, gas) when they work.


Lukelucy, I do not know how old you are, but I am 62. My mother worked about half my childhood years. There have always been women who worked outside of the home. One of the big achievements of the women's movement was to help those working women get a more equitable (still not totally equal) wage in the workforce and to allow women to have equal access to jobs. My father was an enlisted man (not officer) in the air force and his salary did not cover the expenses of our family. My mother worked outside of the home because we needed the money. And yes she enjoyed working outside of the home. Neither I nor my three brothers were spoiled, we did not have a lot of things. Our family had one car and my mother rode to work with a coworker. We all took our lunches to school and work and we did not have luxuries. It was not until I was a teen in the sixties that my parents could afford to buy a house. Many of my friends had mothers who worked outside of the home. When I was old enough to begin evening babysitting for neighbors my earned money went to pay for some of my school clothes, just as my older brothers money went for their school clothes.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It was complicated. We were lucky. We all have different circumstances. We don't always get our "first choice." So then we go to Plan B and make it the best possible. I think it helps to think of a Plan B not as worse, but as different. Another option - and the one that worked best.
> 
> Of course, easy to say. All parenting involves tough decisions, hard work, and long hours.


that is the job description of parent. Aren't we glad we were blessed to have children?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

IMHO the women's movement was necessary and successful in the 60's and 70's but the need to be radical feminists has come and gone. Now it is a political movement, not a movement supporting women. I believe this because every time a Conservative women is attacked, they remain silent. I do not believe they have represented me for over 25 years. 

Trying to be an 80's Super Mom I feel was detrimental for the family.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Does anyone remember "The Bad Seed" in the 1950's. It dealt with inherited criminality of Rhonda. Her mother was intending to write a book about it. The doctor said there were atavistic, consciousless minds that inherited a tendency to criminality. At one time this was a classic read in psychology courses.
> 
> The human brain continues to be underestimated. At the moment of birth it continues its' spongelike affinity for soaking up information. I believe this begins in uterro and there is much we can do to promote the learning process in the not yet born infant.
> 
> We have also learned much about the plasticity of the brain which is present from birth to death. I always find it demeaning to the brain to compare it to a computer.


I like what you had to say about "The Bad Seed", atavistic consciouslessness, and the in utero influence we can have on an unborn child. And the brain is definetly not a computer. It's so much more than that I can't begin to list what the brain is and the little a computer is.

We may be born with genetic tendencies to become all sorts of things, but we do our infants and young children a diservice (and society at large) to ignore the influence of how a child is nurtured. I think nurture may influence a child enough to keep them from living up (or is that down?) to their genetic predispositions. Then again, some parents are completely imperfect, and I don't know if it's even possible to identify them as they take their little bundles of joy out the hospital door and home to what??

I seriously believe there should be a parent at home. That doesn't mean that mothers must be the ones to stay at home. If there are two parents available, the father could just as likely want to be the parent at home as the mother might be. Maybe we should look at the almighty god of materialism we worship and stop worshipping at that altar and learn to live within our means, live without massing up credit card debt, and remember the value of spending time with each other.

None of the above takes into account the people who seem to crank out babies by the truckload without any preparation or thought to how they're going to raise them. Mother Nature has given us an almost irrestible urge to reproduce, and many of us do just what that old MF wants us to do. Nature is not concerned with individuals.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think there are similarities and differences. Castro is indeed a deeply disturbed person. There are reasons. There are always reasons. Sometimes we hate the bad guy so much that we don't want to know there are reasons, but they are there. Even he was once an innocent and helpless baby. Hard to imagine, isn't it?
> 
> I'm not defending his actions at all. As adults, we are responsible for our actions. But what in the world twisted this guy's thinking and turned him into a cruel and truly heartless rapist and killer?


I suspect he is a sociopath. No conscience, but smart enough to know others perceive him as a monster. Sociopaths usually are damaged by not bonding with parents as a very young child. I don't know about the military rapes. Sounds like the most recent in the news was a case of too much alcohol allowing some anger issues or violent tendancies to cause the actions. I suspect alcohol has always been a factor and drugs are now so widely used that it may cause loss of inhibitions and acting out in violence. Let's face it, all rape is an act of violence. It's not just a sexual act.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> that is the job description of parent. Aren't we glad we were blessed to have children?


Yes!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> IMHO the women's movement was necessary and successful in the 60's and 70's but the need to be radical feminists has come and gone. Now it is a political movement, not a movement supporting women. I believe this because every time a Conservative women is attacked, they remain silent. I do not believe they have represented me for over 25 years.
> 
> Trying to be an 80's Super Mom I feel was detrimental for the family.


Yes - too much pressure, especially on women.

I think it's just as bad today, maybe even worse. Kids have so many activities, and technology hasn't made life easier at all. I remember thinking about my great washing machine. Why hasn't it reduced my work load. When my mother did clothes, she had a wringer washer at first. Then we come along with the washer that does everything but cook dinner! (That's the dryer's job.) So - can we go read a book instead of washing clothes? Take a hot bubble bath while the dryer does it thing? No - now we do laundry every day - and fold and put away mountains of stuff!

Computer - time saver? Hardly. Have you been to the doctor's office lately? WE've been a lot,and they always apologize for the delay - getting everything on computer! I myself waste LOTS of time on the computer.

Have you seen your kids lately? Heck, no - faces down, noses into computer. Or upstairs, on the Wii. Puberty will come and go unnoticed, and they'll come downstairs for graduation two feet taller! Did I say puberty will come and go unnoticed? That could be a GOOD thing!

Or in the car, going to practice of one kind or another. My daughters spend hours in the car - and so do the little brothers and sisters. Practice.

What we really need to practice is - table manners by eating together, the fine art of conversation by talking face to face, even the laborious task of letter writing starting with thank-you notes.

Oh, dear, I digress. A few days away from home and I forget my self-improvement project: shorter posts and NO soap box.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Sounds like you had a great family. When I was growing up (and I am about your age) there was not one mother working. I wonder why the difference. 

All I am saying is that I see affluence that is followed by spoiled children. Parents are too busy working to bother/have the energy to discipline. 

Your are lucky. Your parents did both.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

I worked, my kids did go to daycare. I enjoyed my job teaching.
My kids loved daycare! they had great teachers and ladies who cared for them. I guess it can be said they spent time in daycare after they were two and three and did until they were 6 and 8. We moved and I never took another full time teaching job. Of course since I had summers off, they were home with me.

As a family we ate dinner together! It was home cooked. When they were infants they were held until they fell asleep. They knew they were greatly loved and cared for. I know they felt that they always came first in our lives even with dad having cancer.

I also feel that being home for kids when they are teenagers or in middle school is very important. those are ages when many things can happen. 

I live in an area where many women don't work, but mother's day out programs fill up rather quickly.

Just because a mother doesn't work doesn't mean she stays all day being 50's housewife. 

I realize many women work due to necessity. Not every women who works is working for luxuries. In today's economy it can be necessary. Some of these women could still be paying off student loans. It could also be their job provides the best health insurance or other benefits. It could also be they are saving for the future both for college and also their retirement.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Hello, hello, hello, my SIL left then storms took out my Internet connection so finally I'm repaired. Missed this place and the people. Did not realize how much friends mean to me and notes to read. Jane


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> IMHO the women's movement was necessary and successful in the 60's and 70's but the need to be radical feminists has come and gone. Now it is a political movement, not a movement supporting women. I believe this because every time a Conservative women is attacked, they remain silent. I do not believe they have represented me for over 25 years.
> 
> Trying to be an 80's Super Mom I feel was detrimental for the family.


To some degree I agree with you. The National Organization for Women is not radical (and was only radical in light of the times) and is political and has always been political. Never have conservative women supported the women's movement, yet have benefited greatly from the movement. I do not support a woman simply because she is a woman. I support a woman because she is a "sister" in political and social actions and beliefs. This is in the sense of politics. If any woman is physically attacked, or hurt, or demeaned I would of course support her. I would not have voted for Hillary Clinton if she had run for Presidential office. I am not overly excited by Nancy Pelosi or most of the women (dem or rep) in political office today. Like Obama, I consider them to be centrist and they do not deserve my vote or political vote.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Sounds like you had a great family. When I was growing up (and I am about your age) there was not one mother working. I wonder why the difference.
> 
> All I am saying is that I see affluence that is followed by spoiled children. Parents are too busy working to bother/have the energy to discipline.
> 
> Your are lucky. Your parents did both.


It's so strange how things go in cycles. When I was in college, the big problem was parents who gave their kids things instead of time. Sounds familiar. Fifty years later - here we go again. "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

Too much stuff, too many things. I used to have a sign on my refrigerator when my kids were young - "People before things." When there's a choice, choose people.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> I worked, my kids did go to daycare. I enjoyed my job teaching.
> My kids loved daycare! they had great teachers and ladies who cared for them. I guess it can be said they spent time in daycare after they were two and three and did until they were 6 and 8. We moved and I never took another full time teaching job. Of course since I had summers off, they were home with me.
> 
> As a family we ate dinner together! It was home cooked. When they were infants they were held until they fell asleep. They knew they were greatly loved and cared for. I know they felt that they always came first in our lives even with dad having cancer.
> ...


Well said.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I didn't mean to imply that the predisposition of all genetics should be "nurtured" away. Lets not forget the genetics of athleticism, music, art, math, knitting and crafts, etc. I believe that most genetics derived from one's ancestors are positive in nature and with nurturing comes success and even genius.

I know you didn't mean to imply that all genetics were to be avoided. I just wish to make it clear. And I believe that our genes give us more for which to be thankful than those of the "Bad Seed" which need much love, understanding and help.



SeattleSoul said:


> I like what you had to say about "The Bad Seed", atavistic consciouslessness, and the in utero influence we can have on an unborn child. And the brain is definetly not a computer. It's so much more than that I can't begin to list what the brain is and the little a computer is.
> 
> We may be born with genetic tendencies to become all sorts of things, but we do our infants and young children a diservice (and society at large) to ignore the influence of how a child is nurtured. I think nurture may influence a child enough to keep them from living up (or is that down?) to their genetic predispositions. Then again, some parents are completely imperfect, and I don't know if it's even possible to identify them as they take their little bundles of joy out the hospital door and home to what??
> 
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well said.


I'm sure you were an attentive and loving mother. I would have thought that from some of your posts. That's what I mean - that's what they need to know - that they're loved. There are different ways to do that. Being home is great, and I don't regret a moment of it. I've learned from others, though, that there's more than one way to help your children grow up to be happy and responsible adults. We could learn so much from each other if we stayed calm and didn't talk you-know-what (or at least didn't get mad about it).

I had to pay off college, too - but luckily it was a lot cheaper back then.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You are wrong about the support from conservative women having been a fiscally conservative professional in the '60's and served on a panel with Betty Friedan. One memorable experience comes to mind when I was the only woman at a department meeting and was asked to "get everyone some coffee". It took me by surprise but always being of quick mind I replied that "I am happy to and I'll make up a list for future meetings and we'll take turns." What a shockeroo that was to my male peers.

I had to get out of NOW when I like some of my colleagues realized that the values we treasured and were taught by our familes did not coalesce.

So you see conservative women did attempt to be a part of it but sacrificing ones values was not an option. I did what I could to establish those things I felt were important to women in my own way with some successes.



peacegoddess said:


> To some degree I agree with you. The National Organization for Women is not radical (and was only radical in light of the times) and is political and has always been political. Never have conservative women supported the women's movement, yet have benefited greatly from the movement. I do not support a woman simply because she is a woman. I support a woman because she is a "sister" in political and social actions and beliefs. This is in the sense of politics. If any woman is physically attacked, or hurt, or demeaned I would of course support her. I would not have voted for Hillary Clinton if she had run for Presidential office. I am not overly excited by Nancy Pelosi or most of the women (dem or rep) in political office today. Like Obama, I consider them to be centrist and they do not deserve my vote or political vote.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

This is changing the subject but just wanted to say what lovely friends I have made on KP. One friend sent me a yarn winder when she had an extra one and found out I didn't own one. Another sent me a postcard from Spain while she was on her vacation. One even sent me some Bird's custard from Canada with her family recipe. Have made so many friends that I share about my family and even have them as my facebook friends. I have gotten to pray with them and they have prayed for me. Thanks for being so sweet to me. You know who you are. I may have to start singing the old Debbie Boone song. Yoooou light up my life. I know corny but true. Lots of encouragement too. I look forward to spending time with you every day.{{{Hugs}}} CB


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> You are wrong about the support from conservative women having been a fiscally conservative professional in the '60's and served on a panel with Betty Friedan. One memorable experience comes to mind when I was the only woman at a department meeting and was asked to "get everyone some coffee". It took me by surprise but always being of quick mind I replied that "I am happy to and I'll make up a list for future meetings and we'll take turns." What a shockeroo that was to my male peers.
> 
> I had to get out of NOW when I like some of my colleagues realized that the values we treasured and were taught by our familes did not coalesce.
> 
> So you see conservative women did attempt to be a part of it but sacrificing ones values was not an option. I did what I could to establish those things I felt were important to women in my own way with some successes.


You proved my point.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is changing the subject but just wanted to say what lovely friends I have made on KP. One friend sent me a yarn winder when she had an extra one and found out I didn't own one. Another sent me a postcard from Spain while she was on her vacation. One even sent me some Bird's custard from Canada with her family recipe. Have made so many friends that I share about my family and even have them as my facebook friends. I have gotten to pray with them and they have prayed for me. Thanks for being so sweet to me. You know who you are. I may have to start singing the old Debbie Boone song. Yoooou light up my life. I know corny but true. Lots of encouragement too. I look forward to spending time with you every day.{{{Hugs}}} CB


Me too! I cherish all the lovely people who are sooooo nice to me too! You have been an Angel to me from the very first words we wrote!

I missed all of you while SIL was here then Internet was down, but I'm ready for chat! Hugs, Jane


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

So be it. There are many ways to solve problems. And I hope you have personally done your share for women's rights. 
I have and without jeopardizing my ideals or putting my values at risk.



peacegoddess said:


> You proved my point.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Me too! I cherish all the lovely people who are sooooo nice to me too! You have been an Angel to me from the very first words we wrote!
> 
> I missed all of you while SIL was here then Internet was down, but I'm ready for chat! Hugs, Jane


We missed you too Jane. Glad you are back . :lol:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is changing the subject but just wanted to say what lovely friends I have made on KP. One friend sent me a yarn winder when she had an extra one and found out I didn't own one. Another sent me a postcard from Spain while she was on her vacation. One even sent me some Bird's custard from Canada with her family recipe. Have made so many friends that I share about my family and even have them as my facebook friends. I have gotten to pray with them and they have prayed for me. Thanks for being so sweet to me. You know who you are. I may have to start singing the old Debbie Boone song. Yoooou light up my life. I know corny but true. Lots of encouragement too. I look forward to spending time with you every day.{{{Hugs}}} CB


Thanks CB for reminding us of what the original subject of this thread was all about - sharing faith, crafts, recipes, personal experiences... I've only been with this group for a little while, but have been made to feel so very welcome; even though we haven't met each other, it is friendship -- so I'd like to thank everyone too.

There are so many other places on this forum to talk about the contentious and controversial stuff - I liked having a place where it felt like we were sharing conversation over coffee, tea or wine on the deck or porch and smell the roses.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Me too! I cherish all the lovely people who are sooooo nice to me too! You have been an Angel to me from the very first words we wrote!
> 
> I missed all of you while SIL was here then Internet was down, but I'm ready for chat! Hugs, Jane


Welcome back, Jane. Hope you had a good family visit. How are your shawls coming along?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Back atcha CB

I just want to say something regarding PG's comments about conservative women not supporting the women's movement. Not all of us were as conservative in the 70's as we are now, so you have no idea what people supported 30+ years ago. I was never part of the hippie thing (too young missed it) but I probably wouldn't have been one anyway. Being conservative is my life style. I have never been into wearing clothes for the shock value, though I did fit nicely in my Calvin Kleins. I don't need the limelight. I don't need to have the newest gadget.....I have a strong religious background. I appreciate what the NOW gang did, which allowed me to choose the life I wanted, the job I wanted and so on. But it seems to me, today the NOW gang is nothing more than man haters. If you are not radical it is assumed that you do not support women. But this idea of a sisterhood of the NOW Sisterhood comprising only the same political beliefs is is discriminatory to half of the women in this country. If NOW wants to only represent liberal radicals with only one political point of view, they need to change their name, because they are not an organization for all women. Something like the National Organization for only liberal women, or the National Organization of liberal sisters. NOLS


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Welcome back, Jane. Hope you had a good family visit. How are your shawls coming along?


Thanks it is wonderful to return to my friends! I'm behind with knitting so hands may be stiff!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Me too! I cherish all the lovely people who are sooooo nice to me too! You have been an Angel to me from the very first words we wrote!
> 
> I missed all of you while SIL was here then Internet was down, but I'm ready for chat! Hugs, Jane


Jane, I wondered where you had disappeared to. Good to see you back.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> So be it. There are many ways to solve problems. And I hope you have personally done your share for women's rights.
> I have and without jeopardizing my ideals or putting my values at risk.


All my adult life and still working against repression.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Jane, I wondered where you had disappeared to. Good to see you back.


Thanks it is sooooooo great to be back!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Back atcha CB
> 
> I just want to say something regarding PG's comments about conservative women not supporting the women's movement. Not all of us were as conservative in the 70's as we are now, so you have no idea what people supported 30+ years ago. I was never part of the hippie thing (too young missed it) but I probably wouldn't have been one anyway. Being conservative is my life style. I have never been into wearing clothes for the shock value, though I did fit nicely in my Calvin Kleins. I don't need the limelight. I don't need to have the newest gadget.....I have a strong religious background. I appreciate what the NOW gang did, which allowed me to choose the life I wanted, the job I wanted and so on. But it seems to me, today the NOW gang is nothing more than man haters. If you are not radical it is assumed that you do not support women. But this idea of a sisterhood of the NOW Sisterhood comprising only the same political beliefs is is discriminatory to half of the women in this country. If NOW wants to only represent liberal radicals with only one political point of view, they need to change their name, because they are not an organization for all women. Something like the National Organization for only liberal women, or the National Organization of liberal sisters. NOLS


This is what I think conservatives do not understand...that NOW is not radical, neither are Obama and the democrats socialists. They differ from conservatives in some mainstream areas such as choice, gay rights, and gun control, which I know most conservatives abhor, but look at how many dems cross the line on some of these issues. I personally feel the democrats are closer to conservatives than ever before in history. As I said in an earlier post here, I will always support women who are victimized, poor, etc. I do not support political dem or rep women because they are so far from me in social and economic justice views.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This is what I think conservatives do not understand...that NOW is not radical, neither are Obama and the democrats socialists. They differ from conservatives in some mainstream areas such as choice, gay rights, and gun control, which I know most conservatives abhor, but look at how many dems cross the line on some of these issues. I personally feel the democrats are closer to conservatives than ever before in history. As I said in an earlier post here, I will always support women who are victimized, poor, etc. I do not support political dem or rep women because they are so far from me in social and economic justice views.


When I see people on either side of an issue screaming at other people, throwing stuff at one another, and generally acting out I realize these people are out of control. You can witness that on either side of just about any issue today: abortion, school prayer, health care, 2nd amendment, 1st amendment, etc.

Peace, when I hear speakers rally people with anti-male slogans, telling one another at the top of their lungs how all men want to do is rape them, then, yeah, I think that group is radical and not for most American women. And that is some of the stuff NOW has done. I've heard it and seen it myself.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> When I see people on either side of an issue screaming at other people, throwing stuff at one another, and generally acting out I realize these people are out of control. You can witness that on either side of just about any issue today: abortion, school prayer, health care, 2nd amendment, 1st amendment, etc.
> 
> Peace, when I hear speakers rally people with anti-male slogans, telling one another at the top of their lungs how all men want to do is rape them, then, yeah, I think that group is radical and not for most American women. And that is some of the stuff NOW has done. I've heard it and seen it myself.


What about the yelling by anti choice men and women. I was in NOW for about 10 years, and I never heard them say all men want to rape. Nor did I feel they were anti men. However it is interesting how many incidences of rape, assault, and sexual harassment in the military these days. Our perspectives are very different. I am sure my radical stance is something you have never seen if you believe NOW is radical.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> All my adult life and still working against repression.


Maybe you ought to stop trying to repress the tendency in this topic that participants nave to make pleasant remarks to each other about this, that and the other. I know I wouldn't miss you at all if you suddenly disappeared. You practice the your own form of repression but don't seem to be able to own it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Peacegoddess can you make your own topic for this subject? Please?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Peacegoddess can you make your own topic for this subject? Please?


CB, that's a great suggestion.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Peacegoddess can you make your own topic for this subject? Please?


Just responding to others on the thread.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Just responding to others on the thread.


If you started your own topic, you could probably have some more interesting in-depth discussions of the things that concern you. That doesn't seem to be what you get here.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You are wrong about the support from conservative women having been a fiscally conservative professional in the '60's and served on a panel with Betty Friedan. One memorable experience comes to mind when I was the only woman at a department meeting and was asked to "get everyone some coffee". It took me by surprise but always being of quick mind I replied that "I am happy to and I'll make up a list for future meetings and we'll take turns." What a shockeroo that was to my male peers.
> 
> I had to get out of NOW when I like some of my colleagues realized that the values we treasured and were taught by our familes did not coalesce.
> 
> So you see conservative women did attempt to be a part of it but sacrificing ones values was not an option. I did what I could to establish those things I felt were important to women in my own way with some successes.


I support women because they are human beings.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is changing the subject but just wanted to say what lovely friends I have made on KP. One friend sent me a yarn winder when she had an extra one and found out I didn't own one. Another sent me a postcard from Spain while she was on her vacation. One even sent me some Bird's custard from Canada with her family recipe. Have made so many friends that I share about my family and even have them as my facebook friends. I have gotten to pray with them and they have prayed for me. Thanks for being so sweet to me. You know who you are. I may have to start singing the old Debbie Boone song. Yoooou light up my life. I know corny but true. Lots of encouragement too. I look forward to spending time with you every day.{{{Hugs}}} CB


Such a nice post, Country B. You are a great friend.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We missed you too Jane. Glad you are back . :lol:


Ditto from me!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Thanks CB for reminding us of what the original subject of this thread was all about - sharing faith, crafts, recipes, personal experiences... I've only been with this group for a little while, but have been made to feel so very welcome; even though we haven't met each other, it is friendship -- so I'd like to thank everyone too.
> 
> There are so many other places on this forum to talk about the contentious and controversial stuff - I liked having a place where it felt like we were sharing conversation over coffee, tea or wine on the deck or porch and smell the roses.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Back atcha CB
> 
> I just want to say something regarding PG's comments about conservative women not supporting the women's movement. Not all of us were as conservative in the 70's as we are now, so you have no idea what people supported 30+ years ago. I was never part of the hippie thing (too young missed it) but I probably wouldn't have been one anyway. Being conservative is my life style. I have never been into wearing clothes for the shock value, though I did fit nicely in my Calvin Kleins. I don't need the limelight. I don't need to have the newest gadget.....I have a strong religious background. I appreciate what the NOW gang did, which allowed me to choose the life I wanted, the job I wanted and so on. But it seems to me, today the NOW gang is nothing more than man haters. If you are not radical it is assumed that you do not support women. But this idea of a sisterhood of the NOW Sisterhood comprising only the same political beliefs is is discriminatory to half of the women in this country. If NOW wants to only represent liberal radicals with only one political point of view, they need to change their name, because they are not an organization for all women. Something like the National Organization for only liberal women, or the National Organization of liberal sisters. NOLS


Well said, Off2Knit. I was already married with children in the seventies - way too busy for "causes" and too responsible to burn my bra. The feminist movement gets mixed reviews from me. We have learned about injustices, but not all of us experienced them. I think we've seen damage to the nuclear family, which I regret greatly. Women have always been strong, but now it seems they are also very harshly competitive. Where is the softness, the gentleness? What has happened to the natural protectiveness toward children? And what has happened to the unselfishness that our mothers exhibited? My mother made sacrifices and put others first - these things are considered foolish nowadays, particularly sacrifice. I don't like the "get yours first" mentality.
Too long - soap box out again - sorry.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bon - don't be sorry - I enjoy your chatty posts


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, how's this? The one frame in which the animators bothered to give Mammy Two Shoes a face. Like most African-Americans of the period she was viewed as a set of arms and legs whose sole function was to serve the white quality.


I don't understand why you would choose such a disparaging picture to identify yourself. Why perpetuate an abhorrent stereotype?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And, the candidates who are smart are considered "elite" or "eggheads." The general public wants to vote for "regular people" like Dubya or Palin or Bachmann.


Or an egghead socialist like Obama and a fool like Biden or a pervert like Clinton and his ineffective, egotistical wife, Hillary. I look at what people HAVE achieved before voting for them, not what they PROMISE to achieve. Anyone can lie to you and tell you their great plans, but only those who have layed out a goal and achieved it need apply for my vote. Judge their actions, not their words.

Obama came from a very dysfunctional background, and has buried his qualifications for office, his educational background, his religious background, his social background, his voting record in state and federal government, and his objectives for this country. Smoke screens are everywhere and a clue the man has a lot to hide. He had achieved nothing before becoming president. I would never vote for anyone like that. He hid his life from the American public. The closest example of similar hiding of the man before achieving public office is Adolph Hitler, and look what believing a smooth talking liar got Germany.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit Crazy,

Great post. Thank you for putting it out there so clearly.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knit Crazy, you said it like it is.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Early mom's day yesterday. Youngest son, and his sweetheart, and took me out to eat. Flowers and candy. Flower where to plant out doors this year. Prolbems there in the 30's this morning and again tomorrow morning. So plants will have to wait. Usually kill them off any way, so weeds have some place to grow.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Or an egghead socialist like Obama and a fool like Biden or a pervert like Clinton and his ineffective, egotistical wife, Hillary. I look at what people HAVE achieved before voting for them, not what they PROMISE to achieve. Anyone can lie to you and tell you their great plans, but only those who have layed out a goal and achieved it need apply for my vote. Judge their actions, not their words.
> 
> Obama came from a very dysfunctional background, and has buried his qualifications for office, his educational background, his religious background, his social background, his voting record in state and federal government, and his objectives for this country. Smoke screens are everywhere and a clue the man has a lot to hide. He had achieved nothing before becoming president. I would never vote for anyone like that. He hid his life from the American public. The closest example of similar hiding of the man before achieving public office is Adolph Hitler, and look what believing a smooth talking liar got Germany.


Unbelievable. If conservatives can't differentiate between a politician they dislike, even loathe--Obama--and a monster like Hitler then we are truly lost as a nation. Your casual comparison is an insult to the Jewish people and the five million other "undesirables" who were shoveled into the ovens. Shame on you.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

She was not comparing Hitler to Obama. ALL she was saying is that a nation can be lead down the wrong path. Do not take it too far. It is not an insult to Jewish people. 

However, IN GENERAL, that is how a country goes down the tubes (like in Germany with Hitler). They are led by liars. And that is Obama.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> bon - don't be sorry - I enjoy your chatty posts


Me too, as my dad would have died of shock if I would have thought of being a hippie! We had a very loving home, not rich in money, but love and understanding. We were dirt poor but I never knew it until I was older as neither parent complained about our situation nor ever ask nor took a handout!

People of today want everything given to them instead of working hard to achieve what they want.

I'm proud of my heritage and of my loving parents.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. Kids, people today want to be given it all. My parents were dirt poor, too. They worked and work. My father several jobs to support us. I am proud of them, too.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Or an egghead socialist like Obama and a fool like Biden or a pervert like Clinton and his ineffective, egotistical wife, Hillary. I look at what people HAVE achieved before voting for them, not what they PROMISE to achieve. Anyone can lie to you and tell you their great plans, but only those who have layed out a goal and achieved it need apply for my vote. Judge their actions, not their words.
> 
> Obama came from a very dysfunctional background, and has buried his qualifications for office, his educational background, his religious background, his social background, his voting record in state and federal government, and his objectives for this country. Smoke screens are everywhere and a clue the man has a lot to hide. He had achieved nothing before becoming president. I would never vote for anyone like that. He hid his life from the American public. The closest example of similar hiding of the man before achieving public office is Adolph Hitler, and look what believing a smooth talking liar got Germany.


Very true! Well said, you go girl!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unbelievable. If conservatives can't differentiate between a politician they dislike, even loathe--Obama--and a monster like Hitler then we are truly lost as a nation. Your casual comparison is an insult to the Jewish people and the five million other "undesirables" who were shoveled into the ovens. Shame on you.


We can differentiate. It's just that there are similarities which make it so scary.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> bon - don't be sorry - I enjoy your chatty posts


Thank you! That's very nice of you. Brightened my day. :-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She was not comparing Hitler to Obama. ALL she was saying is that a nation can be lead down the wrong path. Do not take it too far. It is not an insult to Jewish people.
> 
> However, IN GENERAL, that is how a country goes down the tubes (like in Germany with Hitler). They are led by liars. And that is Obama.


Yes, she was. Don't try to slap a coat of whitewash on a truly appalling comparison.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Or an egghead socialist like Obama and a fool like Biden or a pervert like Clinton and his ineffective, egotistical wife, Hillary. I look at what people HAVE achieved before voting for them, not what they PROMISE to achieve. Anyone can lie to you and tell you their great plans, but only those who have layed out a goal and achieved it need apply for my vote. Judge their actions, not their words.
> 
> Obama came from a very dysfunctional background, and has buried his qualifications for office, his educational background, his religious background, his social background, his voting record in state and federal government, and his objectives for this country. Smoke screens are everywhere and a clue the man has a lot to hide. He had achieved nothing before becoming president. I would never vote for anyone like that. He hid his life from the American public. The closest example of similar hiding of the man before achieving public office is Adolph Hitler, and look what believing a smooth talking liar got Germany.


You are right.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She was not comparing Hitler to Obama. ALL she was saying is that a nation can be lead down the wrong path. Do not take it too far. It is not an insult to Jewish people.
> 
> However, IN GENERAL, that is how a country goes down the tubes (like in Germany with Hitler). They are led by liars. And that is Obama.


Yes, when my dad heard about those people Hitler put to death, he compared the Jewish people killed to the thousands of American Indians who were killed. Both people were nearly wiped out!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, she was. Don't try to slap a coat of whitewash on a truly appalling comparison.


The truth hurts.

We've certainly seen a lot of that this week. More to come.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Hitler was far worse than Obama. No comparison. Hitler was the lowest of animals. Sick, sick, sick.

Obama is trouble. He can ruin our society, too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hitler was far worse than Obama. No comparison. Hitler was the lowest of animals. Sick, sick, sick.
> 
> Obama is trouble. He can ruin our society, too.


Let's not forget the death panels that were denied and now we know are in "The Plan."


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Well said, Off2Knit. I was already married with children in the seventies - way too busy for "causes" and too responsible to burn my bra. The feminist movement gets mixed reviews from me. We have learned about injustices, but not all of us experienced them. I think we've seen damage to the nuclear family, which I regret greatly. Women have always been strong, but now it seems they are also very harshly competitive. Where is the softness, the gentleness? What has happened to the natural protectiveness toward children?


How right you are, Bonnie. What further proof do we need that today's so-called ladies are selfish and uncaring when they pray for a bomb to be dropped on our President's head (lukelucy) or advocate armed revolt and civil warfare (joeysmama)?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, she was. Don't try to slap a coat of whitewash on a truly appalling comparison.


What's truly appalling is that you have blinded yourselves to the fact that there are similarities.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, when my dad heard about those people Hitler put to death, he compared the Jewish people killed to the thousands of American Indians who were killed. Both people were nearly wiped out!


Not just thousands...tens of millions. Genocide, in other words.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How right you are, Bonnie. What further proof do we need that today's so-called ladies are selfish and uncaring when they pray for a bomb to be dropped on our President's head (lukelucy) or advocate armed revolt and civil warfare (joeysmama)?


Ha, ha. You can be so cute sometimes, susan. However, feigned indignation does not suit when it's obvious you are taking comments out of context.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not pray for a bomb to be dropped on Obama's head. I was figuratively speaking. I simply wish he was gone. Don't take things too far.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> What's truly appalling is that you have blinded yourselves to the fact that there are similarities.


Yes, there are similarities--but not between Obama and Hitler. Between Hitler and the far right. I've never believed in reincarnation, but now I almost wish it were true. It would do the ultra-rightists' souls good to come back as Jewish mothers watching their children suffer at the hands of a truly diabolical government.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ha, ha. You can be so cute sometimes, susan. However, feigned indignation does not suit when it's obvious you are taking comments out of context.


Not feigned. I'm truly appalled and upset at such irresponsible and hateful comments. And anyone who's willing to reconsider and/or explain what they truly meant is welcome to do so. I'd much rather believe that I'm simply misinterpreting these comments.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not pray for a bomb to be dropped on Obama's head. I was figuratively speaking. I simply wish he was gone. Don't take things too far.


Good. Thank you for taking the time to make that clear.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Early mom's day yesterday. Youngest son, and his sweetheart, and took me out to eat. Flowers and candy. Flower where to plant out doors this year. Prolbems there in the 30's this morning and again tomorrow morning. So plants will have to wait. Usually kill them off any way, so weeds have some place to grow.


Sounds like a good mom's day, What plant did you get? I do love your humour, thanks for the chuckle.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, there are similarities--but not between Obama and Hitler. Between Hitler and the far right. I've never believed in reincarnation, but now I almost wish it were true. It would do the ultra-rightists' souls good to come back as Jewish mothers watching their children suffer at the hands of a truly diabolical government.


It is not the far right that endeavors to squelch free speech, our first ammendment, under the guise of 'hate speech'. It is not the far right that endeavors to disarm the general populace, our second ammendment, under the guise of protecting everyone. It was not a far right government that forcibly took over a private corporation. It was not a far right government that took over control of the citizenry and their access to healthcare. The far right knew that they were being lied to. Why didn't you?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not feigned. I'm truly appalled and upset at such irresponsible and hateful comments. And anyone who's willing to reconsider and/or explain what they truly meant is welcome to do so. I'd much rather believe that I'm simply misinterpreting these comments.


I read the comment as a reminder that much of Obama's background is not open and that there can be serious risks with having a leader whose life is not open to scrutiny -- the worst example of which was Hitler. You do seem to be upset, but you are also the only one to take the comment to mean that Obama is being accused of being prepared to commit the same atrocities that Hitler did.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unbelievable. If conservatives can't differentiate between a politician they dislike, even loathe--Obama--and a monster like Hitler then we are truly lost as a nation. Your casual comparison is an insult to the Jewish people and the five million other "undesirables" who were shoveled into the ovens. Shame on you.


It is because I never want a Hitler to happen again that I warn of Obama's lack of clarity and the danger of supporting a charismatic leader whose motives are harmful to freedom.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It is not the far right that endeavors to squelch free speech, our first ammendment, under the guise of 'hate speech'. It is not the far right that endeavors to disarm the general populace, our second ammendment, under the guise of protecting everyone. It was not a far right government that forcibly took over a private corporation. It was not a far right government that took over control of the citizenry and their access to healthcare. The far right knew that they were being lied to. Why didn't you?


Frankly I wasn't aware that I had been lied to. But I have no problem with preventing folks from screaming the n-word at little children by legal means, with background checks for all who want to purchase a firearm, and with making sure that even the poorest Americans have access to medical care.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> It is because I never want a Hitler to happen again that I warn of Obama's lack of clarity and the danger of supporting a charismatic leader whose motives are harmful to freedom.


One of the (many) difference is that Hitler was Fuhrer for life and Obama will be gone in three years, when his term in office is over. I've never heard even a hint from the rightists that they think he might stick around any longer.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I read the comment as a reminder that much of Obama's background is not open and that there can be serious risks with having a leader whose life is not open to scrutiny -- the worst example of which was Hitler. You do seem to be upset, but you are also the only one to take the comment to mean that Obama is being accused of being prepared to commit the same atrocities that Hitler did.


If that's the case, fine. I said before, it's one time I'd rather be wrong than right about what I thought the conservatives were saying.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What about the yelling by anti choice men and women. I was in NOW for about 10 years, and I never heard them say all men want to rape. Nor did I feel they were anti men. However it is interesting how many incidences of rape, assault, and sexual harassment in the military these days. Our perspectives are very different. I am sure my radical stance is something you have never seen if you believe NOW is radical.


Once *again* a liberal has failed to *read* my post. Please note I said, "...on either side..." And I guess you've never heard of Gloria Steinhem. She was one of the one's who changed the direction of NOW from women's equality into a radical arm of the communist party in America. I have heard her scream into microphones *anything* and *everything* full of hatred that could and would come into her mind.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I wasn't aware that I had been lied to. But I have no problem with preventing folks from screaming the n-word at little children by legal means, with background checks for all who want to purchase a firearm, and with making sure that even the poorest Americans have access to medical care.


You could have stopped after the word, "aware." You liberals are asleep at the throttle of the train of America, the bridge is out, and we're hurtling at full steam for it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ha, ha. You can be so cute sometimes, susan. However, feigned indignation does not suit when it's obvious you are taking comments out of context.


Right, Thumper.

I've finally stopped responding to comments that are meant to cloud, not clarify the issue - and those which are meant to be offensive, with no "redeeming social value." If someone can't be nice, he or she can peddle that nastiness somewhere else.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Gloria Steinhemis the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> You could have stopped after the word, "aware." You liberals are asleep at the throttle of the train of America, the bridge is out, and we're hurtling at full steam for it.


You are so right, StitchDesigner. However, it appears that the event called a "bump in the road," namely the Benghazi scandal, may be the dark tunnel leading us back to the light of sanity, patriotism, and personal responsibility.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I wasn't aware that I had been lied to. But I have no problem with preventing folks from screaming the n-word at little children by legal means, with background checks for all who want to purchase a firearm, and with making sure that even the poorest Americans have access to medical care.


If we are unable to repeal obamacare, you - and all of us - will become sadly aware of the lies and deception perpetrated upon us when this was forced through Congress without being read.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bonbf,

You are so right. I am so hoping that it won't happen. What do you think?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton did not send military aid requested by those being attacked in Benghazi BECAUSE a large part of their political campaign was telling us "Bin Ladin is dead and al qaeda is on the run." Since this was an al qaeda attack on Americans, it was obvious they weren't on the run. So - it had to be ignored. If people died, "what difference does it make now."

Then, when the CIA gave their description of the murders committed by al qaeda terrorists, those talking points were directed to be changed by the State Department, namely Hilary Clinton. They were tweaked FOURTEEN times. 

In the meantime, administration officials reported numerous times on tv (five times by Susan Rice alone) that a disgusting video was the reason for the attack. 

They even went so far as to track down the producer of the video and put him in jail for another reason - parole violation. He sits imprisoned to this day. A political prisoner? 

Then obama and hilary made a joint appearance, declaring to the people of Libya that the video was reprehensible, and that the U.S. government "had NOTHING to do with it." CYA. By this time, those two people had lied - LIED! - to how many millions of American citizens AND how many millions more citizens of the world.

Finally, individuals who had asked many times for military help from the military group whose entire existence is to render such aid, began to speak out. Those who had lost colleagues and who knew exactly what had happened risked promotions, even careers, to speak out. 

This was a major cover-up of gross negligence and glaring incompetence. I hope that those who are responsible - and we all know that hilary clinton is the highest official at the State Department and that barack obama sits at the desk where the buck finally stops - will be punished for their negligence which allowed four American patriots to die at the hands of brutal terrorists and for their deliberate lies and deceptive acts in order to hide what had happened for selfish political gain.

Barack Obama should resign or be impeached, and Hilary Clinton should be disqualified from holding any political office in this country. As far as the legal consequences, that remains to be seen.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bonbf,

Yes. I agree again. Obama should be gone and Hillary banned from running for president.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Bonbf,
> 
> You are so right. I am so hoping that it won't happen. What do you think?


I think they'll try to repeal it. I think there's a good chance it will be repealed. If not, it will die a slow death and cause a lot of pain by states dropping out and lawsuits. Of course, many exemptions have already been granted to friends of obama and pelosi, and Congress wants to exempt its staff.

Go figure - I thought it was so good! Just good enough for us, the "masses", not for the "elites" in the governing class and their friends.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will go down the tubes.

I am watching a Sunday political program. Anyway, they just said that the group that tracked Bin Laden was made up entirely of women. They said that women make better analysts (of people) than men. Men like to shoot and women can figure people out. I found that totally interesting.

Also, the main character in the series Homeland (which I love) is Carrie. The TV program brought up the fact that she is a women and that they have her analyzing the characters/terrorists. Women have this special ability.

Here at home, I am constantly looking deeper into things that go on with people - their actions and motivations. My husband does not and does not understand what I am saying. Now I know why.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It is not the far right that endeavors to squelch free speech, our first ammendment, under the guise of 'hate speech'. It is not the far right that endeavors to disarm the general populace, our second ammendment, under the guise of protecting everyone. It was not a far right government that forcibly took over a private corporation. It was not a far right government that took over control of the citizenry and their access to healthcare. The far right knew that they were being lied to. Why didn't you?


Excellent post.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will go down the tubes.
> 
> I am watching a Sunday political program. Anyway, they just said that the group that tracked Bin Laden was made up entirely of women. They said that women make better analysts (of people) than men. Men like to shoot and women can figure people out. I found that totally interesting.
> 
> ...


Same at my house. I very interested in motivation, feelings, etc. My husband - nope! Just get it done.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Maybe you ought to stop trying to repress the tendency in this topic that participants nave to make pleasant remarks to each other about this, that and the other. I know I wouldn't miss you at all if you suddenly disappeared. You practice the your own form of repression but don't seem to be able to own it.


Actually you would miss these women as you keep coming back to these threads. Let's be honest, OK?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, she was. Don't try to slap a coat of whitewash on a truly appalling comparison.


No, she was comparing the similarities of how they came into power. Not the people.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Actually you would miss these women as you keep coming back to these threads. Let's be honest, OK?


This thread had a completely different tone when it was started. It was started as a place to share ideas and discuss in a friendly manner. I stay in hopes the civility will return, and I try not to respond to the nasty posts. I'm not always successful.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> It is not the far right that endeavors to squelch free speech, our first ammendment, under the guise of 'hate speech'. It is not the far right that endeavors to disarm the general populace, our second ammendment, under the guise of protecting everyone. It was not a far right government that forcibly took over a private corporation. It was not a far right government that took over control of the citizenry and their access to healthcare. The far right knew that they were being lied to. Why didn't you?


It's really pitiful that they have been lied to so often and for so long that they can't differentiate a lie from the truth. The really sad part is that even though Hillary has lied, they still attempt to protect her regardless. Maybe they need to protect her so they can believe the lies?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the moon made from bleu cheese and a chicken in every pot?



Lukelucy said:


> Bonbf,
> 
> Yes. I agree again. Obama should be gone and Hillary banned from running for president.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TBBC



thumper5316 said:


> It is not the far right that endeavors to squelch free speech, our first ammendment, under the guise of 'hate speech'. It is not the far right that endeavors to disarm the general populace, our second ammendment, under the guise of protecting everyone. It was not a far right government that forcibly took over a private corporation. It was not a far right government that took over control of the citizenry and their access to healthcare. The far right knew that they were being lied to. Why didn't you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

????



west coast kitty said:


> I read the comment as a reminder that much of Obama's background is not open and that there can be serious risks with having a leader whose life is not open to scrutiny -- the worst example of which was Hitler. You do seem to be upset, but you are also the only one to take the comment to mean that Obama is being accused of being prepared to commit the same atrocities that Hitler did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I wasn't aware that I had been lied to. But I have no problem with preventing folks from screaming the n-word at little children by legal means, with background checks for all who want to purchase a firearm, and with making sure that even the poorest Americans have access to medical care.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But I feel quite certain that someone will be elected to carry on his mandate.



susanmos2000 said:


> One of the (many) difference is that Hitler was Fuhrer for life and Obama will be gone in three years, when his term in office is over. I've never heard even a hint from the rightists that they think he might stick around any longer.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That is an exaggeration, like most of the comments.



Lukelucy said:


> Gloria Steinhemis the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why is the right so intent on 'proving' a conspiracy in the attack on Benghazi? What is the motive? There is no possible motive to cause the deaths of 4, some of whom were personal friends. No one is listening.



bonbf3 said:


> Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton did not send military aid requested by those being attacked in Benghazi BECAUSE a large part of their political campaign was telling us "Bin Ladin is dead and al qaeda is on the run." Since this was an al qaeda attack on Americans, it was obvious they weren't on the run. So - it had to be ignored. If people died, "what difference does it make now."
> 
> Then, when the CIA gave their description of the murders committed by al qaeda terrorists, those talking points were directed to be changed by the State Department, namely Hilary Clinton. They were tweaked FOURTEEN times.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It will not be repealed, as RomneyCare in MA has not been repealed. Granted, there will probably be changes, most likely more coverage for all. The GOP in Congress is also part of your elite. I assume you will throw vitriol at them too.



bonbf3 said:


> I think they'll try to repeal it. I think there's a good chance it will be repealed. If not, it will die a slow death and cause a lot of pain by states dropping out and lawsuits. Of course, many exemptions have already been granted to friends of obama and pelosi, and Congress wants to exempt its staff.
> 
> Go figure - I thought it was so good! Just good enough for us, the "masses", not for the "elites" in the governing class and their friends.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Flash: All women and all men do not think alike. All people do not think alike. Think deeply about that and let me know what you think.



Lukelucy said:


> I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will go down the tubes.
> 
> I am watching a Sunday political program. Anyway, they just said that the group that tracked Bin Laden was made up entirely of women. They said that women make better analysts (of people) than men. Men like to shoot and women can figure people out. I found that totally interesting.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm just looking for good facts and discussion. Why are you here?



soloweygirl said:


> Actually you would miss these women as you keep coming back to these threads. Let's be honest, OK?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm just looking for good facts and discussion. Why are you here?


Why are you here? You have loll, why bother us?

You are not looking for discussion here, you are looking to aggravate, imho.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Was just thinking, why are nearly all of the lefties putting a person of color in their Avatar? Bringing up the race card again? What point are you trying to prove????


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Time will tell, and the truth always comes out. Because the truth IS what IS. 

Hmmm........is----is.....

That reminds me of the famous Clinton line, "It depends on what 'is' is." Time did tell, and the truth did come out in the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I refuse to let you know what I think. I avoid you.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Just thought you'd like a few more quotes. These are *very* revealing.

1) "Your opinions are valued only if you can share them respectfully." From BrattyPatty on the opening post for L.O.L.L.

2) "Oh this is wonderful. My only suggestion is to totally ignore anyone trying to aggravate us to gain attention. The theory is they will give up if they don't get attention. It will take time. But they always seem to find us and they are nothing if not persistent." From DameMary as the 2nd post to LOLL.

When I asked respectfully to BrattyPatty that she use the same standard when she posts elsewhere I was verbally attacked again by her. She seems to have had both my post and her reply removed from the thread.

Oh, yeah, LOLL people, about your "progressive" dinner party...you really wouldn't want Mother Theresa to attend. She wouldn't rest until she had tried the entire evening to turn everyone of you into born again Christians. That was her motivation, her calling, and her driving force.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Was just thinking, why are nearly all of the lefties putting a person of color in their Avatar? Bringing up the race card again? What point are you trying to prove????


 Why are they picking on people of color? Kind of racist, isn't it?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I refuse to let you know what I think. I avoid you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Back atcha CB
> 
> I just want to say something regarding PG's comments about conservative women not supporting the women's movement. Not all of us were as conservative in the 70's as we are now, so you have no idea what people supported 30+ years ago. I was never part of the hippie thing (too young missed it) but I probably wouldn't have been one anyway. Being conservative is my life style. I have never been into wearing clothes for the shock value, though I did fit nicely in my Calvin Kleins. I don't need the limelight. I don't need to have the newest gadget.....I have a strong religious background. I appreciate what the NOW gang did, which allowed me to choose the life I wanted, the job I wanted and so on. But it seems to me, today the NOW gang is nothing more than man haters. If you are not radical it is assumed that you do not support women. But this idea of a sisterhood of the NOW Sisterhood comprising only the same political beliefs is is discriminatory to half of the women in this country. If NOW wants to only represent liberal radicals with only one political point of view, they need to change their name, because they are not an organization for all women. Something like the National Organization for only liberal women, or the National Organization of liberal sisters. NOLS


Exactly right. Glad to hear someone with sense.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Exactly right. Glad to hear someone with sense.


Thank you

I think the hippies may have grey hair and wrinkles, but in their world the mirror tells them that it is still the 60's and they are in a time warp.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

damemary said:


> And the moon made from bleu cheese and a chicken in every pot?


Obama will be gone in 3 years give or take unless he does away with the constitution. The best we can hope for is holding off the damage he is doing to this country. If he were impeached, with would have Biden to deal with - not a pretty prospect. Benghazi will eliminate Hillary and damage Obama enough that the media will turn on him. They'll bring the light of day to expose him for the radical he is. Time moves on and so will this experiment in socializing America. I have faith in God to protect Christian values.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I'd love to see him looked at as the worst thing in this country by everyone. I'd love a "vote of no confidence".


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

damemary said:


> Why is the right so intent on 'proving' a conspiracy in the attack on Benghazi? What is the motive? There is no possible motive to cause the deaths of 4, some of whom were personal friends. No one is listening.


My prediction is that we will learn that Obama and Hilary had Ambassador Stephen working for the CIA to run guns from Libya to Turkey. It will be a gun deal gone bad, and BO didn't want it coming out before the election. It makes no sense that Stephens was in Benghazi for any other reason on 9/11/12, and it explains why so many CIA operatives provideed security for Stephens.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I hope the truth comes out about Obama.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Why are they picking on people of color? Kind of racist, isn't it?


They are "picking" on the black race again, shame, shame!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

<<<<<<shocked face>>>>>>>>>>>>


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Janeway said:


> They are "picking" on the black race again, shame, shame!


Maybe we should boycott discussion with them. They are on their heels, but the fight is not worth it. They don't seem capable of actually reading what we say and have enjoyed misreading our comments. They have read a lot of liberal, socialist literature, but I doubt they have read the Federalist Papers. They only know recent union, social progressive literature and operate in a closed society of liberals. We won't change them because their value system is not ours. I have been guilty of interacting with them to open the dialogue, but I think we will always end in an impasse. I am not suggesting that we should avoid any topic. That would restrain our right to talk to each other, but we can just not talk with them. It is getting boring.

I hope each of you had a good Sunday, and a great Mother's Day. I enjoyed mine - church, dinner w/ DH, calls from the kids (we had our family get together last Sunday), visit to MIL in assisted living, nap in the afternoon, and just finished my shell (except for the I-cord trim at the neck and armholes. So anxious to finish. I have frogged and reworked several times, but it looks good (will look better when blocked). Ordered more yarn today. Joann's has free shipping and yarn on sale 40% off.

Question though- did anyone else buy a Mother's Day present for yourself? I did, a new bread maker. My old, old one quit working except on one setting. I think the circuitry was nearly gone. Will try it out this coming week. Lots of great recipes.

I consider you all as friends. Love the ladies you are and the grace you share with each other. Let's keep this lovely coffee clatch/knitting group going. It is a good place to share. I promise to keep sharing with you and ignore the left as they just bring us to conflict.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Obama will be gone in 3 years give or take unless he does away with the constitution. The best we can hope for is holding off the damage he is doing to this country. If he were impeached, with would have Biden to deal with - not a pretty prospect. Benghazi will eliminate Hillary and damage Obama enough that the media will turn on him. They'll bring the light of day to expose him for the radical he is. Time moves on and so will this experiment in socializing America. I have faith in God to protect Christian values.


Me too. :thumbup:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes I bought myself some herbs and hanging baskets. I also bought myself a pair of red capris and a blue sweater.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some history/biography books. Got my eye on 2 at the friends of the library bookstore for $2 each. Also the Encyclopedia of Classic Quilt Patterns at the used bookstore down the street. All I can afford right now are used books.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Changing the subject; My 2 youngest grandkids were here for a few days. My granddaughter is 5 and wanted to help me crochet. She was able to use the hook and single crochet if I held the project and the tension on the yarn. It's a start.


Maybe she will take after her Omma. I will let you teach my dd. I have tried a few years ago but she can't even chain. .


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Changing the subject; My 2 youngest grandkids were here for a few days. My granddaughter is 5 and wanted to help me crochet. She was able to use the hook and single crochet if I held the project and the tension on the yarn. It's a start.


A budding new crafter, bet she loved "helping" Oma. That's nice for you and the kids to spend a few days together


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some history/biography books. Got my eye on 2 at the friends of the library bookstore for $2 each. Also the Encyclopedia of Classic Quilt Patterns at the used bookstore down the street. All I can afford right now are used books.


my bank branch sells used books by donation to support a different charity each month; have picked up some great books there


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> My prediction is that we will learn that Obama and Hilary had Ambassador Stephen working for the CIA to run guns from Libya to Turkey. It will be a gun deal gone bad, and BO didn't want it coming out before the election. It makes no sense that Stephens was in Benghazi for any other reason on 9/11/12, and it explains why so many CIA operatives provideed security for Stephens.


That would be a shocker.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I hope the truth comes out about Obama.


So do I. Damemary says no one is listening. Check out Facebook, Twitter, Fox News, Dame.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Maybe we should boycott discussion with them. They are on their heels, but the fight is not worth it. They don't seem capable of actually reading what we say and have enjoyed misreading our comments. They have read a lot of liberal, socialist literature, but I doubt they have read the Federalist Papers. They only know recent union, social progressive literature and operate in a closed society of liberals. We won't change them because their value system is not ours. I have been guilty of interacting with them to open the dialogue, but I think we will always end in an impasse. I am not suggesting that we should avoid any topic. That would restrain our right to talk to each other, but we can just not talk with them. It is getting boring.
> 
> I hope each of you had a good Sunday, and a great Mother's Day. I enjoyed mine - church, dinner w/ DH, calls from the kids (we had our family get together last Sunday), visit to MIL in assisted living, nap in the afternoon, and just finished my shell (except for the I-cord trim at the neck and armholes. So anxious to finish. I have frogged and reworked several times, but it looks good (will look better when blocked). Ordered more yarn today. Joann's has free shipping and yarn on sale 40% off.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you had such a nice day. I had a nice day, too - lots of family time in the beautiful breezy sunshine. I think of you all as friends, too. See you in the morning!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The birth certificate issue is far from Dead. 2 more "real" copies showed up. It would really be nice if he could prove were he was born, and if he was really a natural born citizen. So far there have more questions than answers.
> 
> Why should we take his word for anything? He is far from trustworthy.
> 
> http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/05/multiple-obama-birth-certificates-surface-in-alabama-eligibility-case/#.UYX0_R6TmMg.email


Not only that, but he came up with a birth certificate about a year ago. He had years to get one. Now, if kids can get fake i.d.'s, don't you think the President of the United States can get a fake birth certificate? I'm not a birther, but my mind is open, and seeing a birth certificate years after the first election is no better than seeing a college transcript that pops up today. Not that one will.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

We don't have any kids, but had a nice chat with my mom. Usually call my folks every couple of days and fly to visit them about 3 times a year.

Had a busy day, yarn sales reps for the many of the yarn lines I carry were here to show me the new yarns for the next fall/winter season. Always so much to choose from, it's hard to say "no" but can't have it all.

Are any of you hockey fans? DH and I just finished watching his favourite team the Toronto Maple Leafs win their game against the Boston Bruins. The 7th game will decide which team advances. He's a happy man.

Hope all of you had a wonderful day


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some history/biography books. Got my eye on 2 at the friends of the library bookstore for $2 each. Also the Encyclopedia of Classic Quilt Patterns at the used bookstore down the street. All I can afford right now are used books.


Used books are great as that is all I buy when I look for a "new" book. They read just as well as new ones, but sometimes there are notes to help with a pattern that I enjoy.

My thinking is why pay $20. When it can be bought for $2.00. That saves money plus it can be sold again at a garage sale for the same $2.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> We don't have any kids, but had a nice chat with my mom. Usually call my folks every couple of days and fly to visit them about 3 times a year.
> 
> Had a busy day, yarn sales reps for the many of the yarn lines I carry were here to show me the new yarns for the next fall/winter season. Always so much to choose from, it's hard to say "no" but can't have it all.
> 
> ...


Too bad your shop is so far away as I don't have much money to spend, but love to look and feel of the yarn.

Yes, I had a good day with sunshine, but expect frost tonight! I'm not into any sports except ice skating!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't go to hockey games any more, but my husband and I used to watch the Baltimore Clippers (minor league). I love watching hockey - so fast! It's very exciting.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Maybe we should boycott discussion with them. They are on their heels, but the fight is not worth it. They don't seem capable of actually reading what we say and have enjoyed misreading our comments. They have read a lot of liberal, socialist literature, but I doubt they have read the Federalist Papers. They only know recent union, social progressive literature and operate in a closed society of liberals. We won't change them because their value system is not ours. I have been guilty of interacting with them to open the dialogue, but I think we will always end in an impasse. I am not suggesting that we should avoid any topic. That would restrain our right to talk to each other, but we can just not talk with them. It is getting boring.
> 
> I hope each of you had a good Sunday, and a great Mother's Day. I enjoyed mine - church, dinner w/ DH, calls from the kids (we had our family get together last Sunday), visit to MIL in assisted living, nap in the afternoon, and just finished my shell (except for the I-cord trim at the neck and armholes. So anxious to finish. I have frogged and reworked several times, but it looks good (will look better when blocked). Ordered more yarn today. Joann's has free shipping and yarn on sale 40% off.
> 
> ...


Knitcrazy,
I always read your posts in their entirety. In addition, I read news posts that are opposite to my point of view because it is important to consider many points of view before making a decision. I read the Federalist papers in high school, college, and then used them when I taught social studies. How far outside your comfort zone have you gone with your readings?

I bought myself some beautiful new yarn from a small yarn company called Peace Fleece. Beautiful colors from natural dyes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't get my news there.



bonbf3 said:


> So do I. Damemary says no one is listening. Check out Facebook, Twitter, Fox News, Dame.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.



bonbf3 said:


> Not only that, but he came up with a birth certificate about a year ago. He had years to get one. Now, if kids can get fake i.d.'s, don't you think the President of the United States can get a fake birth certificate? I'm not a birther, but my mind is open, and seeing a birth certificate years after the first election is no better than seeing a college transcript that pops up today. Not that one will.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.


The same could be said about your hatred of Bush and Cheney.

Was wondering if Susan Rice is a political figure................


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Used books are great as that is all I buy when I look for a "new" book. They read just as well as new ones, but sometimes there are notes to help with a pattern that I enjoy.
> 
> My thinking is why pay $20. When it can be bought for $2.00. That saves money plus it can be sold again at a garage sale for the same $2.


I agree. I use the local library first, buy secondhand next and rarely, if ever, buy new books. It just seems wasteful. Love the fact that I can go online, request a book and they order it for me or pull it from their shelves and have it waiting for me soon.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.


Trust me. I'm not laughing either. All the liar and deadbeat in the WH has come up with is obstruction and lies. He _knows_ he's not in the WH legally.

A horse is not dead as long as the SOB keeps coming back to life and continues to make life miserable for others and leaves nothing but destruction and waste in its wake.

Your blind loyalty for this lying, divisive jerk is nothing short of disgusting.

Go back to your LOLL and stop stirring up things here with you nastiness. I'm tired of your bullying and treatment of everyone here that doesn't think like you. In addition, take the rest of your high school "mean girl" mentality pack with you. All y'all don't bore me as we do you. You disgust me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.


No, it really isn't--it's scary. Seeing Benghazi wither on the vine seems to have unbalanced more than one rightist mind--the rhetoric is getting more and more vicious.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.


I never said I hated the president. I don't like him and don't mind saying so. I don't like people who lie and use other people as if they were pawns. Seal Team Six comes to mind.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Beat that dead horse! Your hatred of the President is not funny, however.


That's the sad part, Damemary. You're laughing, and this is no laughing matter.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I agree. I use the local library first, buy secondhand next and rarely, if ever, buy new books. It just seems wasteful. Love the fact that I can go online, request a book and they order it for me or pull it from their shelves and have it waiting for me soon.


Our library does the same thing! I love the library. They make it so easy. One time I went in with an overdue book. When I returned it, no fine showed up. I told the librarian. She checked my file and whispered (so as not embarrass me!) that senior citizens don't have to pay overdue fines. Isn't that nice! I'm much more conscientious about getting books back on time because of that generous policy. I seldom buy a book - do request them for birthdays and Christmas, though.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, it really isn't--it's scary. Seeing Benghazi wither on the vine seems to have unbalanced more than one rightist mind--the rhetoric is getting more and more vicious.


Wither? You haven't been paying attention. ANd why should it wither? Why isn't it important? What if it were your husband or son who requested help and was left to die?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Wither? You haven't been paying attention. ANd why should it wither? Why isn't it important? What if it were your husband or son who requested help and was left to die?


You're right bonbf3. It's not withering. It's picking up steam. This just may be the downfall of our liar-in-chief.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Good morning all, had such a lovely weekend. Both days spent with son's. Youngest took me out to eat,and his sweetheart is just that. They bought me a beautiful basket of flowers that can be planted amoung the weeds. You will always have weeds amoung the flowers in life.
Oldest son and wife and granddaughter yesterday. More flowers, but one that I love.Fuchsia, I ususal buy one every year. Hadn't purchase one yet. 

I buy this special flower in memory of a dear friend who love this flower and had them ever year. Lost her life in her thirtys. She died to young and left two twin boy's who were 11 years old and a husband who was so no words for it after she died. She died of breast cancer, I always think if she would have gotten it now she may have had a chance to live out her life into old ages. But as it was not God's will, and he wanted her home. Have come to except the fact, that it was time for her to go home. There was a group of six of us who sat around sharing coffee with our children playing. It was the best of times, laughing sharing and loving each other. Two of them now gone and the rest of us moved away. Lost touch with each other, but ever once an a while we meet up again.
My oldest son's daughter is my last granddaughter to be born and she will enter her senior year in high school next year. The other two are in college, miss my little rug rats. Time marches on.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Wither? You haven't been paying attention. ANd why should it wither? Why isn't it important? What if it were your husband or son who requested help and was left to die?


The relative merit of the case is another issue entirely--I'm talking about its failure to engage the American public's attention. Whatever the rights and wrong of the incident it's dull beyond belief--if the rightists really want the mud to stick they need to add some sexually-tinged slime...maybe Hillary and Stevens in a passionate relationship that somehow turned sour? Obama and Stevens? Clinton and Rice? Really, the possibilities are endless.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Trust me. I'm not laughing either. All the liar and deadbeat in the WH has come up with is obstruction and lies. He _knows_ he's not in the WH legally.
> 
> A horse is not dead as long as the SOB keeps coming back to life and continues to make life miserable for others and leaves nothing but destruction and waste in its wake.
> 
> ...


And you don't actually hate him? Heaven help him if you did.

Good Christian ladies: do you remember your saviour's comments about motes and beams? Do you practise any of what he preached? The language in here is getting intemperate, to say the least.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You're right bonbf3. It's not withering. It's picking up steam. This just may be the downfall of our liar-in-chief.


It certainly should be. Haven't seen him around much. News conference today with Prime Minister (I think) of England. Radio said two question for each man. That should be interesting. I don't know the time.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The relative merit of the case is another issue entirely--I'm talking about its failure to engage the American public's attention. Whatever the rights and wrong of the incident it's dull beyond belief--if the rightists really want the mud to stick they need to add some sexually-tinged slime...maybe Hillary and Stevens in a passionate relationship that somehow turned sour? Obama and Stevens? Clinton and Rice? Really, the possibilities are endless.


How about 4 people dying? What need is there to add anything more?

I'm sorry you find incompetence, obfuscation, and lying in our leaders as dull. However, it might explain how the little man got re-elected.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Good morning all, had such a lovely weekend. Both days spent with son's. Youngest took me out to eat,and his sweetheart is just that. They bought me a beautiful basket of flowers that can be planted amoung the weeds. You will always have weeds amoung the flowers in life.
> Oldest son and wife and granddaughter yesterday. More flowers, but one that I love.Fuchsia, I ususal buy one every year. Hadn't purchase one yet.
> 
> I buy this special flower in memory of a dear friend who love this flower and had them ever year. Lost her life in her thirtys. She died to young and left two twin boy's who were 11 years old and a husband who was so no words for it after she died. She died of breast cancer, I always think if she would have gotten it now she may have had a chance to live out her life into old ages. But as it was not God's will, and he wanted her home. Have come to except the fact, that it was time for her to go home. There was a group of six of us who sat around sharing coffee with our children playing. It was the best of times, laughing sharing and loving each other. Two of them now gone and the rest of us moved away. Lost touch with each other, but ever once an a while we meet up again.
> My oldest son's daughter is my last granddaughter to be born and she will enter her senior year in high school next year. The other two are in college, miss my little rug rats. Time marches on.


You reminded me of those sweet times sitting with friends while the little ones play. I do love those baby and toddler years. I think we've had our last grandchild, too. She's not a year old yet and lives 5 hours away. I'm trying to savor every moment with her. We have thirteen, so I'm not complaining. There's nothing quite like grandchildren.

It sounds like you had a wonderful Mother's Day weekend - and well-deserved, I'm sure.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

West coast Kitty, I would never make any money if I owen a yarn shop. All I would have to do is see, the yarns feel the yarns would order to much, and would not sell it all. Would stock pile it in the back room. Would not be a good place for me at all. 

But as Janeway said would love to come and sit around table and share time with all knitting, laughing ect. Plus when maybe ripping out someone would say here give it to me and I will straighten it out. Nice thought, having work done a bit while I sit and watch. :~)
Have sit the vest aside for a bit as getting frustrated. Best to do for a bit. 
Life is good, remember we only have this day so lets enjoy it. Have a nice good special day, remember to give yourself a hug too. You are the only you that God made. He made the best and you won't find another one just like you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The relative merit of the case is another issue entirely--I'm talking about its failure to engage the American public's attention. Whatever the rights and wrong of the incident it's dull beyond belief--if the rightists really want the mud to stick they need to add some sexually-tinged slime...maybe Hillary and Stevens in a passionate relationship that somehow turned sour? Obama and Stevens? Clinton and Rice? Really, the possibilities are endless.


Spoken like a typical obama supporter. Even at that, I'm surprised at your lack of respect for Ambassador Chris Stevens. If you find it dull, perhaps your senses are not quite up to par. Your empathy is certainly nowhere to be seen in this post.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> West coast Kitty, I would never make any money if I owen a yarn shop. All I would have to do is see, the yarns feel the yarns would order to much, and would not sell it all. Would stock pile it in the back room. Would not be a good place for me at all.
> 
> But as Janeway said would love to come and sit around table and share time with all knitting, laughing ect. Plus when maybe ripping out someone would say here give it to me and I will straighten it out. Nice thought, having work done a bit while I sit and watch. :~)
> Have sit the vest aside for a bit as getting frustrated. Best to do for a bit.
> Life is good, remember we only have this day so lets enjoy it. Have a nice good special day, remember to give yourself a hug too. You are the only you that God made. He made the best and you won't find another one just like you.


Yarnie, you're the best. I'd love to sit and knit with our friends on here. You've brightened my morning with your words! I hope you have a wonderful day.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> How about 4 people dying? What need is there to add anything more?
> 
> I'm sorry you find incompetence, obfuscation, and lying in our leaders as dull. However, it might explain how the little man got re-elected.


Right, Thumper. Withering? Right - we don't talk about it much on here, either. No one's interested.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Spoken like a typical obama supporter. Even at that, I'm surprised at your lack of respect for Ambassador Chris Stevens. If you find it dull, perhaps your senses are not quite up to par. Your empathy is certainly nowhere to be seen in this post.


I would like to know if any of you gentle Christians carried on like this over the THOUSANDS of men and women who were killed under the Cheney-Bush administration. You are carrying this way too far for this to be anything but politicizing. Your fear of Hillary running for office plus your hatred for Obama are the true reasons for your concern. Your hatred is in full play, not your regard for anyone's death. It is very obvious from what and how you write that there isn't a Christian bone in your bodies. Yesterday I came to this thread to wish all of you a Happy Mother's Day, but after reading a bit decided that it wasn't warranted. 
CB I hope you had a good day. I'm simply shocked at the rest of your friends. Their Christianity is nothing but talk.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why do you think President Obama is not in office legally?



thumper5316 said:


> Trust me. I'm not laughing either. All the liar and deadbeat in the WH has come up with is obstruction and lies. He _knows_ he's not in the WH legally.
> 
> A horse is not dead as long as the SOB keeps coming back to life and continues to make life miserable for others and leaves nothing but destruction and waste in its wake.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Spoken like a typical obama supporter. Even at that, I'm surprised at your lack of respect for Ambassador Chris Stevens. If you find it dull, perhaps your senses are not quite up to par. Your empathy is certainly nowhere to be seen in this post.


Nor is yours, or that of any of the righties. I'm waiting with baited breath for their next strategical move--a call to exhume Stevens' corpse and subject it to another autopsy. I know it's coming--what better way for the conservatives to score points than parade around Washington with the poor guy's body in their collective arms?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And more delusional.



susanmos2000 said:


> No, it really isn't--it's scary. Seeing Benghazi wither on the vine seems to have unbalanced more than one rightist mind--the rhetoric is getting more and more vicious.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is sarcasm. Don't bother to create rumors.



susanmos2000 said:


> The relative merit of the case is another issue entirely--I'm talking about its failure to engage the American public's attention. Whatever the rights and wrong of the incident it's dull beyond belief--if the rightists really want the mud to stick they need to add some sexually-tinged slime...maybe Hillary and Stevens in a passionate relationship that somehow turned sour? Obama and Stevens? Clinton and Rice? Really, the possibilities are endless.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> You're right bonbf3. It's not withering. It's picking up steam. This just may be the downfall of our liar-in-chief.


Benghazi isn't withering. It is building. I get emails daily from friends who are outraged. Now we have the IRS scandal. If Obama is not behind it he will use the moral authority of the White House to call for a full accounting and the removal of the guilty parties. If Obama is the project manager for this, we will hear nothing from the White House. What odds would you take for the bully pulpit of the White House being vacant on this one?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know if any of you gentle Christians carried on like this over the THOUSANDS of men and women who were killed under the Cheney-Bush administration. You are carrying this way too far for this to be anything but politicizing. Your fear of Hillary running for office plus your hatred for Obama are the true reasons for your concern. Your hatred is in full play, not your regard for anyone's death. It is very obvious from what and how you write that there isn't a Christian bone in your bodies. Yesterday I came to this thread to wish all of you a Happy Mother's Day, but after reading a bit decided that it wasn't warranted.
> CB I hope you had a good day. I'm simply shocked at the rest of your friends. Their Christianity is nothing but talk.


Someone else's comment - that the recent murder of Chris Stevens would be more important and interesting if he and hilary were having an affair - has nothing to do with anyone's Christianity but the person who said it.

As for politicizing - it was obama who put his own political career ahead of the lives of the people who needed military rescue in Benghazi. Then he LIED about it and had his underlings lie about it repeatedly to the citizens of this country, including you! Of course I'd like to see him out of office! He has betrayed the trust of the people. I don't understand why you don't find this a problem. That has to be blind allegiance.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Our President is really quite tall. He's also quite bright.



thumper5316 said:


> How about 4 people dying? What need is there to add anything more?
> 
> I'm sorry you find incompetence, obfuscation, and lying in our leaders as dull. However, it might explain how the little man got re-elected.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I am trying to back away from the political side, as I did not like what I had become. I found myself, arguing and calling names. I am to old for that game. I am not perfect, and may start again. But am sick of the name calling,and being told I am stupid, a racist ect. 

They have four sites, and seem to feel the need to try and take over the peace here. I welcome them here with open arms if they want to decuss every day life. But as it seems they just want to start to ruin another site why brother.

In my minds eye, and being an independent I have voted for both sides. I have study and look at both sides before I vote. I have not seen a president yet who has not made mistakes. But am sorry to say that any man who feels the needs to hide his life as to where he came from, what he has done before becoming President. Then promises made to be elected and has kept only two or three. He has lied more than once, and finds life to be one big party, and thinks this is more important than getting to work and solving this countries problems does not deserve my respect. 
As I have seen during his first campaign, he used dirty tactic against even Mrs. Clinton. He turned me off. 
Mommie, Joeysomma, Offtoknit, knitcrazy, and the others on here, put forth the facts, and are either told it is a right wing agenda, or we are racist ect. It leads me to believe that they will not or want to be any way but angrey, and name calling. 
They have not put forth many facts to back up what they say and feel that it is right for them to use their left slated computer news, their tv reporters, ect. but we are doing the same thing but we are wrong. The need to ask us for fact's when they are insulted if we ask the same question why brother. 
I am not saying that they all are like this, but some feel the need to call names, bring up illness in a mean way, and lie to only cause trouble ect. why brother, we just fuel their angrey and that is exactly what they want. They will not leave as they want to start it again. So If I feel the need to start up again I am going to their site, and do it.
Plus I think they must be very lonely as they want to fight and so come on here to do it as we do not do it with them on their site. Enough said, except want to tell a couple of them grow up and find another outlet for your angry.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

She knew that she was formed by God's hands

Dreamed up in his heart

and placed in this world for a purpose.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am trying to back away from the political side, as I did not like what I had become. I found myself, arguing and calling names. I am to old for that game. I am not perfect, and may start again. But am sick of the name calling,and being told I am stupid, a racist ect.
> 
> They have four sites, and seem to feel the need to try and take over the peace here. I welcome them here with open arms if they want to decuss every day life. But as it seems they just want to start to ruin another site why brother.
> 
> ...


Right.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> She knew that she was formed by God's hands
> 
> Dreamed up in his heart
> 
> and placed in this world for a purpose.


That's lovely, Yarnie.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK. I'll try one more time, although I can tell from your comments that you are not interested in the truth.

Former Ambassador Stevens and the three others who died in the attack have our respect and thanks for their service. They were not killed by our government.

The GOP is using this sad incident in an attempt to embarrass the Democrats. They just look more desperate with each 'new' story.

bonbf3]Spoken like a typical obama supporter. Even at that, I'm surprised at your lack of respect for Ambassador Chris Stevens. If you find it dull, perhaps your senses are not quite up to par. Your empathy is certainly nowhere to be seen in this post.[/quote]


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know if any of you gentle Christians carried on like this over the THOUSANDS of men and women who were killed under the Cheney-Bush administration. You are carrying this way too far for this to be anything but politicizing. Your fear of Hillary running for office plus your hatred for Obama are the true reasons for your concern. Your hatred is in full play, not your regard for anyone's death. It is very obvious from what and how you write that there isn't a Christian bone in your bodies. Yesterday I came to this thread to wish all of you a Happy Mother's Day, but after reading a bit decided that it wasn't warranted.
> CB I hope you had a good day. I'm simply shocked at the rest of your friends. Their Christianity is nothing but talk.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Benghazi isn't withering. It is building. I get emails daily from friends who are outraged. Now we have the IRS scandal. If Obama is not behind it he will use the moral authority of the White House to call for a full accounting and the removal of the guilty parties. If Obama is the project manager for this, we will hear nothing from the White House. What odds would you take for the bully pulpit of the White House being vacant on this one?


If the Benghazi movement is building, why are you even bothering to cobble together more conspiracies like the IRS thing?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I had an interesting Mother's Day. My oldest and his newly pregant wife were out of town for the weekend and we picked them up at the airport. DIL was so tired from the family activities while they were out of town I ended up making dinner for all of us. I guess it's true that we never stop being mothers. Lol! 

Heard from the other two. One wished me a Merry Christmas. The other one called and during the conversation I said something I thought was funny. He tells me, "Mom, stop. You're not funny. You don't know how to make jokes." So, I told him, "Yes, I can. I made you." It made his fiance laugh.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Actually you would miss these women as you keep coming back to these threads. Let's be honest, OK?


Sure, I'd miss them, even when I strongly disagree with what they say. Is this so difficult to understand? What in the world makes you think I'm not being honest, considering I am tactlessly and endlessly so?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I had an interesting Mother's Day. My oldest and his newly pregant wife were out of town for the weekend and we picked them up at the airport. DIL was so tired from the family activities while they were out of town I ended up making dinner for all of us. I guess it's true that we never stop being mothers. Lol!
> 
> Heard from the other two. One wished me a Merry Christmas. The other one called and during the conversation I said something I thought was funny. He tells me, "Mom, stop. You're not funny. You don't know how to make jokes." So, I told him, "Yes, I can. I made you." It made his fiance laugh.


Kids - gotta love 'em!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Thumper I thought you were funny, kids they do not understand that mom's can be funny too. :shock: :lol: 

I gave my youngest son and his sweetie their christmas presents yesterday, we were all sick at christmas, so did not spend the day together like we normal do. 
Plus son goes overseas with his job so do not get to see him as much as would like too. 

Oh should not have said that, may be in big trouble for mention his job and over seas.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok, All you Conservatives:

I posted two quotes. One was from BrattyPatty as to how everyone on their Liberal thread should be nice to one another. I had asked her to please practice what she was preaching on other threads. I was attacked in a flaming manner by her.

The other quote was from DameMary who recommended that their group "totally ignore anyone trying to aggravate us..."

Let's let these agitators stew in their own recommendations:

*IGNORE THEM.*

They are only trying to prove how smart they are. Instead they are proving they drank Nobama's Kool-Aid and want you to, too.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> And you don't actually hate him? Heaven help him if you did.
> 
> Good Christian ladies: do you remember your saviour's comments about motes and beams? Do you practise any of what he preached? The language in here is getting intemperate, to say the least.


That is a low blow. You can dislike someone for doing harm to your country and still be a Christian.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> Once *again* a liberal has failed to *read* my post. Please note I said, "...on either side..." And I guess you've never heard of Gloria Steinhem. She was one of the one's who changed the direction of NOW from women's equality into a radical arm of the communist party in America. I have heard her scream into microphones *anything* and *everything* full of hatred that could and would come into her mind.


StitchDesigner,

I did post without acknowledging that you had mentioned both sides yelling. I make mistakes just as others make mistakes.

What I find most distressing is the unwillingness of many on all sides, (and as I continually say there is more than the conservative and liberal side) to go outside their political comfort zone and see if there is anything that differing groups do have in common. If you or Knitcrazy would explore readings from progressive, not liberal, sources you both and others would discover that progressives criticize Obama on many of the same issues you criticize him for. The economy, Benghazi, and Obama Care, drone strikes etc. I get posts from the Tea Party, I read Ron Paul, and I listen to various news sources . Can you say that in the last month you have read an article or listened to a news source that is not mainstream? If so let me know I am curious about what you thought of the article.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Good morning all, had such a lovely weekend. Both days spent with son's. Youngest took me out to eat,and his sweetheart is just that. They bought me a beautiful basket of flowers that can be planted amoung the weeds. You will always have weeds amoung the flowers in life.
> Oldest son and wife and granddaughter yesterday. More flowers, but one that I love.Fuchsia, I ususal buy one every year. Hadn't purchase one yet.
> 
> I buy this special flower in memory of a dear friend who love this flower and had them ever year. Lost her life in her thirtys. She died to young and left two twin boy's who were 11 years old and a husband who was so no words for it after she died. She died of breast cancer, I always think if she would have gotten it now she may have had a chance to live out her life into old ages. But as it was not God's will, and he wanted her home. Have come to except the fact, that it was time for her to go home. There was a group of six of us who sat around sharing coffee with our children playing. It was the best of times, laughing sharing and loving each other. Two of them now gone and the rest of us moved away. Lost touch with each other, but ever once an a while we meet up again.
> My oldest son's daughter is my last granddaughter to be born and she will enter her senior year in high school next year. The other two are in college, miss my little rug rats. Time marches on.


Yarnie I had a nice Mother's day too. I got to spend lunch with my Mother, sister, brother and sil. I was nice to be together for her special day. My daughter lives away and sent me roses. My boys are getting me bark and helping me with my flower beds. I had a special treat last night. One of the young men that had lived with us on and off for years made contact with me last night. We had lost contact over the years .He told me very uplifting things in ways we helped him while his time with us. It is so refreshing to hear that you have made a person's life alittle better because you loved them. You never know how much you influence by just loving them even tho they act bad.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> StitchDesigner,
> 
> I did post without acknowledging that you had mentioned both sides yelling. I make mistakes just as others make mistakes.
> 
> What I find most distressing is the unwillingness of many on all sides, (and as I continually say there is more than the conservative and liberal side) to go outside their political comfort zone and see if there is anything that differing groups do have in common. If you or Knitcrazy would explore readings from progressive, not liberal, sources you both and others would discover that progressives criticize Obama on many of the same issues you criticize him for. The economy, Benghazi, and Obama Care, drone strikes etc. I get posts from the Tea Party, I read Ron Paul, and I listen to various news sources . Can you say that in the last month you have read an article or listened to a news source that is not mainstream? If so let me know I am curious about what you thought of the article.


yes C Span, where you can see more of what is really going on in our goverement. They had a committee I mention the other day about rape in the military and what they could do and find solutions to solve the problems. Also have many programs about other goverment committees like Bengazi, ect. Full hearings not new broadcast with bits and pieces. They also have programs of other things like budget with outside opinions, and nice series of first ladies through history. I find it is a better source for what is really happening.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yarnie I had a nice Mother's day too. I got to spend lunch with my Mother, sister, brother and sil. I was nice to be together for her special day. My daughter lives away and sent me roses. My boys are getting me bark and helping me with my flower beds. I had a special treat last night. One of the young men that had lived with us on and off for years made contact with me last night. We had lost contact over the years .He told me very uplifting things in ways we helped him while his time with us. It is so refreshing to hear that you have made a person's life alittle better because you loved them. You never know how much you influence by just loving them even tho they act bad.


Now that is what I would call a wonderful mothers day, and to hear from someone you help through life and how much you mean to them. You are bless .


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> StitchDesigner,
> 
> I did post without acknowledging that you had mentioned both sides yelling. I make mistakes just as others make mistakes.
> 
> What I find most distressing is the unwillingness of many on all sides, (and as I continually say there is more than the conservative and liberal side) to go outside their political comfort zone and see if there is anything that differing groups do have in common. If you or Knitcrazy would explore readings from progressive, not liberal, sources you both and others would discover that progressives criticize Obama on many of the same issues you criticize him for. The economy, Benghazi, and Obama Care, drone strikes etc. I get posts from the Tea Party, I read Ron Paul, and I listen to various news sources . Can you say that in the last month you have read an article or listened to a news source that is not mainstream? If so let me know I am curious about what you thought of the article.


No, what you do is call us names. Stupid, boring, etc. Any sources we cite are discounted because they are not _your_ sources. What you do is bully and when we push back you feign shock and tell us to behave.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper,

Again, :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Stitch Designer,

Will do. Ignore. Have been trying to do that.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is a low blow. You can dislike someone for doing harm to your country and still be a Christian.


I agree CB. Hate is a strong emotion. I have never loved or hated a politician. I have disagreed with some, been disgusted by some, including BO, and thought some were bad for this country, also including BO. Christians must fight against the liar, the deceiver, the one who does not value life. Christians know they are advised that there is no greater love than that you lay down your life for a friend. BO cares only for himself and his political goals. I don't believe he truly cares for the poor and needy. He knows it makes him seem to love others, but his actions don't better the poor's lives. Making slaves of the poor to the federal government is not in their best interest. Making them self-sufficient is freeing the masses. These liberals will never see that Christ did not advocate giving the poor everything they wanted, and he could have. He said, this was not the goal of God, and that the poor would always be with us. Christ did offer a helping hand to the hungry and sick. Christians do that regularly without seeming recognition for those acts. But nowhere does Christ say the government must do this, or can do this, or that it is the government's role. Striving in life is required for a Christian. It produces endurance and that is needed to strengthen your soul. How we treat others is important. Do we care about the other's soul? Do we seek they come to know God? Will Christ recognize them when they stand before God for judgment? Will Christ recognize BO? I don't know, but God will read his heart, know whether he is a believer, and forgive him his sins if he is sorry. In the meantime, he represents this country poorly. I want the BO blight on this nation gone for the nation's sake.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Al as this morning I read your post. Sorry did not read back, and for that I apolize to you.

You came on here and wish us all a Happy Mother's day, and I want to thank you for your kind thoughts. I am also sorry I did not see it in time to wish you the same.

I do hope your day was filled with joy with your children and family.

Again I am truly sorry for that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's good to hear about the nice Mothers' Day celebrations some of you told us about. My brother came over with a beautiful flower arrangement and I made pizza, because that's what our mother wanted for dinner. We laughed a lot and retold a lot of family stories.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> It's good to hear about the nice Mothers' Day celebrations some of you told us about. My brother came over with a beautiful flower arrangement and I made pizza, because that's what our mother wanted for dinner. We laughed a lot and retold a lot of family stories.


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup:


How do you make your crust? I like mine thin but it always gets thick.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As to some saying we are not Christian and seem to feel the need to prove it with Bible quotes. I am going to tell you I am a Christian.

A Christian saved by Grace. Do you know what that means, you do if you really read the Bible and ask him to show you his truth and let your heart be open to recieve it.

I am a SINNER, I every moment of my life have to ask for his forgiveness in Jesus name. I do everything in my power not to sin, but he knew I couldn't do it alone. He sent his son into this world to hang on a cross to died for the sins of the people in this world. Every moment when I know I have sinned, and that is what I mean . I ask God in Jesus name to forgive me, and for all the sins I have hidden in my heart. He said in his word that he will be faithful to forgive me the sins I have committed. I get angry, I get hateful, I turn my back when I shouldn't. But I believe his promise, and I know his Holy Spirit leads me to ask for forgiveness. His spirit is with me all I have to do is listen, Jesus died for me I listen, God created me and everything on this earth. I will not deny him, as if I do he will deny me when I die. 
If you truly read his words, and you ask for him to send his Holy Spirit into your heart and mind he will show you his truths, and then you will understand. If you deny him long enough he will shut the door to you. You never will know his peace or understand his meaning about life. 
If I hear one more time about the Bible being translated and things left out. Why then has this book lasted 2,000 years. If there is no proof in these words, why do some know 2,000 years later believe. Why is it every other faith carry out the Words that are written in the Bible and add it into their own beliefs.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> How do you make your crust? I like mine thin but it always gets thick.


Thin, thin, thin all the way, and none of that whole wheat jazz either. There are traditions to follow. I was a pizza cook eons ago and usually throw my own crusts, though sometimes I cheat and buy them.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thin, thin, thin all the way, and none of that whole wheat jazz either. There are traditions to follow. I was a pizza cook eons ago and usually throw my own crusts, though sometimes I cheat and buy them.


Would mine shareing the recipe with me. Do you use high heat? I have an iron oven and if it gets to hot the door pops open but I could use my grill. I know yours must be delish!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> As to some saying we are not Christian and seem to feel the need to prove it with Bible quotes. I am going to tell you I am a Christian.
> 
> A Christian saved by Grace. Do you know what that means, you do if you really read the Bible and ask him to show you his truth and let your heart be open to recieve it.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

My post about motes and beams was not intended as a low blow. I was just pointing out that some of the language used by some people on here is quite vicious and personal and yet those same people accuse others of the same thing. And, of course, as someone who was brought up Christian, I can't help but recall what Jesus said, since there are so many Christians on here and I thought it might resonate.

For example, "Your blind loyalty for this lying, divisive jerk is nothing short of disgusting". It adds nothing to the debate, it just insults both your President and the person being addressed. I'm not picking on anyone in particular - that is just a recent one that I remember.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> My prediction is that we will learn that Obama and Hilary had Ambassador Stephen working for the CIA to run guns from Libya to Turkey. It will be a gun deal gone bad, and BO didn't want it coming out before the election. It makes no sense that Stephens was in Benghazi for any other reason on 9/11/12, and it explains why so many CIA operatives provideed security for Stephens.


Hillary also wanted to make the consulate a permanent entity. The reduction in security was on purpose, to show as an act of faith (so to speak),that she had confidence in the administration's foreign policy and the direction it is taking. This "confidence" amid the fact that Benghazi is a hot bed for terrorist activity and training and one of the 5 most dangerous places on earth. What was she thinking????


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> Hopefully tomorrow I'll get some history/biography books. Got my eye on 2 at the friends of the library bookstore for $2 each. Also the Encyclopedia of Classic Quilt Patterns at the used bookstore down the street. All I can afford right now are used books.


Absolutely nothing wrong with used books. I shop at used book/dvd/cd stores all the time. I especially like the exchanges, helps clear out the clutter.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> So do I. Damemary says no one is listening. Check out Facebook, Twitter, Fox News, Dame.


They have to say that, otherwise they have to admit they are wrong. Even some Democrats and liberals are listening and starting to question. Politico has even admitted to the "false narrative" by the administration after the attack.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> The relative merit of the case is another issue entirely--I'm talking about its failure to engage the American public's attention. Whatever the rights and wrong of the incident it's dull beyond belief--if the rightists really want the mud to stick they need to add some sexually-tinged slime...maybe Hillary and Stevens in a passionate relationship that somehow turned sour? Obama and Stevens? Clinton and Rice? Really, the possibilities are endless.


Of course Benghazi has failed to get the public's attention. It was planned that way. It has failed to be brought to the public's attention by the media. The media have done their best to bury it and keep the public in the low to no information zone. You are probably right about the sex angle. That would be a good way to grab attention. Or a reality show would have been the way to go. They seem to captivate the public now-a-days.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Would mine shareing the recipe with me. Do you use high heat? I have an iron oven and if it gets to hot the door pops open but I could use my grill. I know yours must be delish!


Pizza dough is one of those really simple things, like pie crust. I use a super basic White Bread recipe thats closest to what I used to use to make large amounts of dough for pizzas. White Bread (makes two loaves): 1 package dry yeast, 2 ½ cups warm water, 2 ½ teaspoons salt, and 5 ½ to 6 cups enriched white flour. It takes about 6 ounces of dough to make a 10 crust, 9 ounces to make a 14, and 16 ounces to make an 18 crust. You can cut the white bread recipe in half or by four if you dont want to make a lot of dough, or you can freeze dough in the amounts you like best for the size pizza you want to make. Fresh or frozen dough, the dough ball(s) you use have to have risen when you use them.

Take your dough ball and start to flatten it by hand into a thick round. At this point you can put it on a lightly floured surface and use a rolling pin to get it nice and thin, and roll it a bit bigger than the size crust you want. All you have to do from there is put on some sauce, the toppings you like and sprinkle the top with grated Mozzarella cheese. Monterey Jack works just fine, too, and isnt as stringy as Mozzarella. (This is cheating, too.)

I use about a cup of sauce for a 14 pizza. I take an 8 ounce can of tomato sauce, add garlic and onion powder, some dry basil and oregano, heat the sauce and let it cook for a couple of minutes and then let it cool. Keeping some 8 ounce cans of tomato sauce makes it really easy to make a pizza almost instantly, especially if you cheat and use the pre-made kind. I especially like to use Boboli bread shells when I cheat on the crust. Ive got to say, the commercially available crusts or Boboli are great, and so much easier to use. My mother will get a last-minute urge to have pizza for dinner, and with the pre-made stuff on hand, I can make instant pizza. I have an upright freezer and keep some crusts on hand (bought on sale, of course)

A hot oven is pretty necessary. You want the dough to rise and bake quickly but the ingredients on top are either already cooked, or in the case of the veggies, dont need to be cooked very much. A real pizza oven with a stone floor is usually heated to 750 degrees!!! I heat my oven to 500, or 425 if cheating. Sometimes I switch to broil at the very end to get the cheese to look just right.

Ive become a strong advocate of using the commercially available crusts because Ive gotten lazy and this is one of the few things I usually dont make from scratch anymore. In fact, Id rather call up Dominos and have my pizza delivered to my front door. Unfortunately, my mother prefers my home-made version, and what she wants, she gets. I used Mama Celestes large crust last night and made one ham and pineapple (my mothers favorite) and one mild Italian sausage and olive one.

I bet you didnt expect to get such a long answer, but I hope you enjoy it. Oh, and yes, you could probably use your grill and put the pizza under the broiler for a minute of two to melt the cheese properly. I'd try the grill if you're doing it the first time when you aren't having company. Remember the old saying "never try out a new recipe on company".


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> They have to say that, otherwise they have to admit they are wrong. Even some Democrats and liberals are listening and starting to question. Politico has even admitted to the "false narrative" by the administration after the attack.


The IRS has admitted they targeted conservatives, but BO said today that IF they did it they would be held accountable. Benghazi and the IRS are both coverups. The IRS is OB's supervisory responsibility. He seems to be perpetuating a false narrative in both cases.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> yes C Span, where you can see more of what is really going on in our goverement. They had a committee I mention the other day about rape in the military and what they could do and find solutions to solve the problems. Also have many programs about other goverment committees like Bengazi, ect. Full hearings not new broadcast with bits and pieces. They also have programs of other things like budget with outside opinions, and nice series of first ladies through history. I find it is a better source for what is really happening.


We differ on what is or is not mainstream media. To me, C span is very mainstream. Perhaps Tea Party posts and Ron Paul are mainstream to you, but they are very outside of my comfort zone for information.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Of course Benghazi has failed to get the public's attention. It was planned that way. It has failed to be brought to the public's attention by the media. The media have done their best to bury it and keep the public in the low to no information zone. You are probably right about the sex angle. That would be a good way to grab attention. Or a reality show would have been the way to go. They seem to captivate the public now-a-days.


The media did put the pressure on Carney today at the press briefing. The media does get "hot" when they are lied to. I think we will see more about the coverup in the mainstream media now.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> Ok, All you Conservatives:
> 
> I posted two quotes. One was from BrattyPatty as to how everyone on their Liberal thread should be nice to one another. I had asked her to please practice what she was preaching on other threads. I was attacked in a flaming manner by her.
> 
> ...


They have to concentrate so hard on being nice to each other and behave themselves on their site that all the anger builds up. If they don't unleash it on us then their site will implode, as it has done in the past.

I have noticed the increase in sales of Kool-Aid lately. They are drinking it by the gallon now, no longer by the glass.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> My post about motes and beams was not intended as a low blow. I was just pointing out that some of the language used by some people on here is quite vicious and personal and yet those same people accuse others of the same thing. And, of course, as someone who was brought up Christian, I can't help but recall what Jesus said, since there are so many Christians on here and I thought it might resonate.
> 
> For example, "Your blind loyalty for this lying, divisive jerk is nothing short of disgusting". It adds nothing to the debate, it just insults both your President and the person being addressed. I'm not picking on anyone in particular - that is just a recent one that I remember.


Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> The media did put the pressure on Carney today at the press briefing. The media does get "hot" when they are lied to. I think we will see more about the coverup in the mainstream media now.


Carney had a hard press conference on Friday. I do think more and more of the press are starting to question the administration. When they see others breaking from under the Obama blanket, they will start actually reporting the news again. They have certainly missed many opportunities over the last 4 years to call out injustices.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip.


I think that's the fourth time you have said that. It's not the only thing he did, is it?


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I think that's the fourth time you have said that. It's not the only thing he did, is it?


No, he also called the Pharisees, Sadducees, and scribes a pit of vipers.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I think that's the fourth time you have said that. It's not the only thing he did, is it?


No, but it is poignant to this discussion


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder.


Why should it? I think we all agree the man is a psychopath.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I think that's the fourth time you have said that. It's not the only thing he did, is it?


I keep repeating it because; a. it bears repeating and b. it's germain to the discussion. I'm flattered that you keep an account of what I say. Shows you're paying attention.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Kids - gotta love 'em!


Once my grown daughter visited me at school. One of my teacher friends asked her, "Was your Mom always funny when you were growing up."

My daughter looked at me, then said diplomatically, "I think it just went over my head."

We had a good laugh over that!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Ok, All you Conservatives:
> 
> I posted two quotes. One was from BrattyPatty as to how everyone on their Liberal thread should be nice to one another. I had asked her to please practice what she was preaching on other threads. I was attacked in a flaming manner by her.
> 
> ...


You are so right, StitchDesigner. I've told myself to ignore, but in the last couple of days, I've given in to temptation. No more.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yarnie I had a nice Mother's day too. I got to spend lunch with my Mother, sister, brother and sil. I was nice to be together for her special day. My daughter lives away and sent me roses. My boys are getting me bark and helping me with my flower beds. I had a special treat last night. One of the young men that had lived with us on and off for years made contact with me last night. We had lost contact over the years .He told me very uplifting things in ways we helped him while his time with us. It is so refreshing to hear that you have made a person's life alittle better because you loved them. You never know how much you influence by just loving them even tho they act bad.


What a lovely Mother's Day from your children. Then to have someone you'd mothered get in touch with you at such a special time - that's very heartwarming. It's good to see that someone's kindness has been helpful and appreciated. I'm happy for you, Country B.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> Again, :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Ditto.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why should it? I think we all agree the man is a psychopath.


Funny, before the conviction it was, "poor man, he's being persecuted by the right." Now he's a psychopath.

The scary thing is: he's not the only one.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Pizza dough is one of those really simple things, like pie crust. I use a super basic White Bread recipe thats closest to what I used to use to make large amounts of dough for pizzas. White Bread (makes two loaves): 1 package dry yeast, 2 ½ cups warm water, 2 ½ teaspoons salt, and 5 ½ to 6 cups enriched white flour. It takes about 6 ounces of dough to make a 10 crust, 9 ounces to make a 14, and 16 ounces to make an 18 crust. You can cut the white bread recipe in half or by four if you dont want to make a lot of dough, or you can freeze dough in the amounts you like best for the size pizza you want to make. Fresh or frozen dough, the dough ball(s) you use have to have risen when you use them.
> 
> Take your dough ball and start to flatten it by hand into a thick round. At this point you can put it on a lightly floured surface and use a rolling pin to get it nice and thin, and roll it a bit bigger than the size crust you want. All you have to do from there is put on some sauce, the toppings you like and sprinkle the top with grated Mozzarella cheese. Monterey Jack works just fine, too, and isnt as stringy as Mozzarella. (This is cheating, too.)
> 
> ...


It's so nice of you to share the recipe and explain how to make the pizza crust. I need detailed instructions like that. I must admit, when you said it's as easy as pie crust, I had to chuckle - because i can't make a decent pie crust! I'm saving your recipe for a day when I get really adventuresome. Maybe this summer when two grandkids are here for all day. ? I'm sure your pizza is delicious!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

off2knit said:


> No, but it is poignant to this discussion


I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.


shocked face, no surprise there


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Peacegoddess, Tea Party and Ron Paul are not mainstream to me. 

Yes I watch Ron Paul's filibuster on C Span. I also watch what bill is being brought before the house and senate. 

Last night I watch Bill Gates, and President Clinton talking about the economy and what they thought could be done.

I watch committee meetings to see what they prepose to do. Plus I have the added pleasure to watch the history of all our first ladies, which I find interesting. 

C Span is not fluff it is our goverment at work and what is being done. Considering it is goverment sponsored, and it does not take sides, but reports what is happening in goverement I find it worth my time to watch it when I can or when I know something of important is taking place.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Pizza dough is one of those really simple things, like pie crust. I use a super basic White Bread recipe thats closest to what I used to use to make large amounts of dough for pizzas. White Bread (makes two loaves): 1 package dry yeast, 2 ½ cups warm water, 2 ½ teaspoons salt, and 5 ½ to 6 cups enriched white flour. It takes about 6 ounces of dough to make a 10 crust, 9 ounces to make a 14, and 16 ounces to make an 18 crust. You can cut the white bread recipe in half or by four if you dont want to make a lot of dough, or you can freeze dough in the amounts you like best for the size pizza you want to make. Fresh or frozen dough, the dough ball(s) you use have to have risen when you use them.
> 
> Take your dough ball and start to flatten it by hand into a thick round. At this point you can put it on a lightly floured surface and use a rolling pin to get it nice and thin, and roll it a bit bigger than the size crust you want. All you have to do from there is put on some sauce, the toppings you like and sprinkle the top with grated Mozzarella cheese. Monterey Jack works just fine, too, and isnt as stringy as Mozzarella. (This is cheating, too.)
> 
> ...


Thank you so much will try it later in the week. I see where I made my mistake using sugar in the recipe. thanks again for going to all the trouble of writing it all out. I have tried many recipes trying to find a good one. Just recently found a good flat bread recipe.. No complaints except my own. Everyone always eats it no matter what I think about it. Not hard to feed teenagers or men.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder.


Thank you Lord!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Peacegoddess, Tea Party and Ron Paul are not mainstream to me.
> 
> Yes I watch Ron Paul's filibuster on C Span. I also watch what bill is being brought before the house and senate.
> 
> ...


I did not call c span fluff. I watch it also. I am talking about watching or reading something not in your and my comfort zone.

What might be out of your comfort zone/


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder.


Why would that make me or anyone who believes abortion should be safe go ape? He was not performing safe abortions.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip.


It might be time for Jesus to return and chase the "money changers" out of government.

A question about Christians. What do Christians think of other Christians who support choice?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

off2knit said:


> shocked face, no surprise there


Not nice. If you use the incorrect vocabulary, of course there's no surprise. I really did not know what word you meant to write.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It might be time for Jesus to return and chase the "money changers" out of government.
> 
> A question about Christians. What do Christians think of other Christians who support choice?


Now you're trying to get Christians arguing with one another.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Not an answer to the question. There are Christians who support Roe vs. Wade. How do Christians who do not support Roe vs. Wade deal with Christians who do?



joeysomma said:


> I "support choice." Anyone whose choice is life.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I am in awe of this from Paul Harvey in 1965! What a revelation he had on this one.http://stg.do/9LDc#share


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Now you're trying to get Christians arguing with one another.


It is a legitimate question. Does the term "Christian" embody all variants of the term?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes. It brings to mind other leaders throughout history who without compunction sacrificed the citizenry for their personal gain.



bonbf3 said:


> I never said I hated the president. I don't like him and don't mind saying so. I don't like people who lie and use other people as if they were pawns. Seal Team Six comes to mind.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

God gave us free will, like any choice we might make that goes against God's teaching we will have to answer to it one day.

Luckily we have God's grace and there is only one unpardonable sin. 

You ask how Christians who are pro life deal with Christians who are prochoice.
The same could be asked of prochoice Christians how they reconcile their decision to be prochoice with Christian teachings.

Each of us have our own belief on this and I doubt anyone can/will change someone's stance on this issue.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> God gave us free will, like any choice we might make that goes against God's teaching we will have to answer to it one day.
> 
> Luckily we have God's grace and there is only one unpardonable sin.
> 
> ...


Let's get this down to the nitty gritty. If you believe that Jesus was and is the Great I Am, if you believe He came to earth as a substitutional sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity, if you believe He died on a cross, if you believe He rose from the grave on the third day, *and * you have accepted that sacrifice, repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life, how can that be reconciled with killing an innocent baby in the womb because it's inconvenient to have the baby. That's the *REAL* question. Could you look the Great I Am in the face and say the baby deserved it because it dared to be conceived and disturb my plans? I doubt it.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> Let's get this down to the nitty gritty. If you believe that Jesus was and is the Great I Am, if you believe He came to earth as a substitutional sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity, if you believe He died on a cross, if you believe He rose from the grave on the third day, *and * you have accepted that sacrifice, repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life, how can that be reconciled with killing an innocent baby in the womb because it's inconvenient to have the baby. That's the *REAL* question. Could you look the Great I Am in the face and say the baby deserved it because it dared to be conceived and disturb my plans? I doubt it.


So, in a few words they are what? Not really Christian?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

CB Your Mother's Day sounds perfect. No Stuff. Consumables and services. And reconnecting with someone with whom you've had a positive influence on their life. Who could ask for anything more? Awesome.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Yarnie I had a nice Mother's day too. I got to spend lunch with my Mother, sister, brother and sil. I was nice to be together for her special day. My daughter lives away and sent me roses. My boys are getting me bark and helping me with my flower beds. I had a special treat last night. One of the young men that had lived with us on and off for years made contact with me last night. We had lost contact over the years .He told me very uplifting things in ways we helped him while his time with us. It is so refreshing to hear that you have made a person's life alittle better because you loved them. You never know how much you influence by just loving them even tho they act bad.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> Let's get this down to the nitty gritty. If you believe that Jesus was and is the Great I Am, if you believe He came to earth as a substitutional sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity, if you believe He died on a cross, if you believe He rose from the grave on the third day, *and * you have accepted that sacrifice, repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life, how can that be reconciled with killing an innocent baby in the womb because it's inconvenient to have the baby. That's the *REAL* question. Could you look the Great I Am in the face and say the baby deserved it because it dared to be conceived and disturb my plans? I doubt it.


As I said each of us will one day have to answer for our choices we have made. 
As one develops a personal relationship with Christ, we want to please Him in our life and actions.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not call c span fluff. I watch it also. I am talking about watching or reading something not in your and my comfort zone.
> 
> What might be out of your comfort zone/


I have never thought about it will have to think about it and get back to you. I seem to move in the same way as I have always done.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It might be time for Jesus to return and chase the "money changers" out of government.
> 
> A question about Christians. What do Christians think of other Christians who support choice?


I am not their judge or any one elses. That's for God to make. Love the person, but hate the sin. That is how it should be. May fail at times but ask forgiveness then go on.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not an answer to the question. There are Christians who support Roe vs. Wade. How do Christians who do not support Roe vs. Wade deal with Christians who do?


You do know that Roe has become a Christian and regrets ever bring it into the courts.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks I can't wait to try it. Do you roll your dough out on corn meal? I usually cheat and buy Trader Joe's but I'm going to try your recipe sans throwing it. We like fresh tomatoes, mozzarella, basil and EVOO.

How about sharing your pie crust recipe?



SeattleSoul said:


> Pizza dough is one of those really simple things, like pie crust. I use a super basic White Bread recipe thats closest to what I used to use to make large amounts of dough for pizzas. White Bread (makes two loaves): 1 package dry yeast, 2 ½ cups warm water, 2 ½ teaspoons salt, and 5 ½ to 6 cups enriched white flour. It takes about 6 ounces of dough to make a 10 crust, 9 ounces to make a 14, and 16 ounces to make an 18 crust. You can cut the white bread recipe in half or by four if you dont want to make a lot of dough, or you can freeze dough in the amounts you like best for the size pizza you want to make. Fresh or frozen dough, the dough ball(s) you use have to have risen when you use them.
> 
> Take your dough ball and start to flatten it by hand into a thick round. At this point you can put it on a lightly floured surface and use a rolling pin to get it nice and thin, and roll it a bit bigger than the size crust you want. All you have to do from there is put on some sauce, the toppings you like and sprinkle the top with grated Mozzarella cheese. Monterey Jack works just fine, too, and isnt as stringy as Mozzarella. (This is cheating, too.)
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am in awe of this from Paul Harvey in 1965! What a revelation he had on this one.http://stg.do/9LDc#share


Oh wow, I loved Paul Harvey, but this one floors me. To think he was talking then and we are seeing it happen today. Sad isn't it, very sad.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thanks I can't wait to try it. Do you roll your dough out on corn meal? I usually cheat and buy Trader Joe's but I'm going to try your recipe sans throwing it. We like fresh tomatoes, mozzarella, basil and EVOO.
> 
> How about sharing your pie crust recipe?


I used to make my own pizza crust, but I now use Trader Joe's too, and think it's pretty darn good!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry. Didn't realize I was on this thread.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> You do know that Roe has become a Christian and regrets ever bring it into the courts.


Yep, I have known that for awhile.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I am not their judge or any one elses. That's for God to make. Love the person, but hate the sin. That is how it should be. May fail at times but ask forgiveness then go on.


I did not ask you if you judge them or not.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not ask you if you judge them or not.


and I am telling you, if they deside they believe in abortion, I am not their judge. As the bible said it is wrong to kill, and as it said he knew me before I was formed in my mothers womb, that means life begins at that moment. If someone who is Christian desides she believes that way it is a sin. I hate the sin but love her. Just like I may not agree with your choice, I can still ask God to give me his love for you. Not easy as a human to do. But I will until I do love you. Hate the Sin love the sinner.

The Bible tells me I am not the judge of what others do. He is , If I start to judge I sin. That is how I feel about another Christian who feels the way they do. Hate the sin, LOVE the sinner.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Yarnie - You don't believe in the death penalty then do you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner wrote:
Let's get this down to the nitty gritty. If you believe that Jesus was and is the Great I Am, if you believe He came to earth as a substitutional sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity, if you believe He died on a cross, if you believe He rose from the grave on the third day, and you have accepted that sacrifice, repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life, how can that be reconciled with killing an innocent baby in the womb because it's inconvenient to have the baby. That's the REAL question. Could you look the Great I Am in the face and say the baby deserved it because it dared to be conceived and disturb my plans? I doubt it.


I agree!

joeysomma


So you oppose the death penalty then too or is it OK once you're here to kill you?


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yarnie - You don't believe in the death penalty then do you?


When someone, like say Ted Bundy or Gosnell, is convicted of premeditated murder and is in a death penalty state, that person has forfeited the right to life. How does that equate to a "mother" forcing the death of her unborn child upon it? The child has not forfeited it's right to life by committing a crime. Unless you think the baby is guilty of the woman's sin of casual sex and, therefore desires the death penalty. We are talking about two different issues. One is innocent life. The other has committed crimes for which he must give an account. They are not equal.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It is a legitimate question. Does the term "Christian" embody all variants of the term?


How do we "deal" with them? Pro-life Christians and pro-choice Christians disagree with one another on the subject of abortion.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> One has had a trial, found guilty (had several appeals). and executed.
> The other was found guilty of being inconvient, and executed.


Good description of the difference. In one case the state makes the decision to execute a criminal. In the other it is the one person who should love and nurture the person who makes the decision.

I am against the death penalty, but its because going through the process is too expensive. It costs between one and two million dollars in legal fees to put someone through the appeals process. I'd rather they be held in jail for life with no chance of parole and forced to look at pictures of their victims every day. They should be given the worst tasks available and be isolated from the non-violent prison population.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not ask you if you judge them or not.


So?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> and I am telling you, if they deside they believe in abortion, I am not their judge. As the bible said it is wrong to kill, and as it said he knew me before I was formed in my mothers womb, that means life begins at that moment. If someone who is Christian desides she believes that way it is a sin. I hate the sin but love her. Just like I may not agree with your choice, I can still ask God to give me his love for you. Not easy as a human to do. But I will until I do love you. Hate the Sin love the sinner.
> 
> The Bible tells me I am not the judge of what others do. He is , If I start to judge I sin. That is how I feel about another Christian who feels the way they do. Hate the sin, LOVE the sinner.


I agree with you, Yarnie.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yarnie - You don't believe in the death penalty then do you?


How about you, Cheeky. You believe in abortion. Do you believe in the death penalty?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> StitchDesigner wrote:
> Let's get this down to the nitty gritty. If you believe that Jesus was and is the Great I Am, if you believe He came to earth as a substitutional sacrifice for all of the sins of humanity, if you believe He died on a cross, if you believe He rose from the grave on the third day, and you have accepted that sacrifice, repented of your sins and asked Jesus to be the Lord of your life, how can that be reconciled with killing an innocent baby in the womb because it's inconvenient to have the baby. That's the REAL question. Could you look the Great I Am in the face and say the baby deserved it because it dared to be conceived and disturb my plans? I doubt it.
> 
> I agree!
> ...


Do YOU believe in the death penalty, Cheeky? Or would you save the life of a convicted killer as you sacrifice the life of an innocent baby. I don't believe in abortion or the death penalty, and both for the same reason - we don't have the right to take a human life.

No answer from Cheeky.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think she ever wanted an abortion. The pro abortionists used her to get what they wanted.


There you go thinking for someone else.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> West coast Kitty, I would never make any money if I owen a yarn shop. All I would have to do is see, the yarns feel the yarns would order to much, and would not sell it all. Would stock pile it in the back room. Would not be a good place for me at all.
> 
> But as Janeway said would love to come and sit around table and share time with all knitting, laughing ect. Plus when maybe ripping out someone would say here give it to me and I will straighten it out. Nice thought, having work done a bit while I sit and watch. :~)
> Have sit the vest aside for a bit as getting frustrated. Best to do for a bit.
> Life is good, remember we only have this day so lets enjoy it. Have a nice good special day, remember to give yourself a hug too. You are the only you that God made. He made the best and you won't find another one just like you.


You're a very special lady Yarnie and I'm glad you enjoyed time with your boys and family on the weekend. My family were always hugging each other, but not so much in DH's family - so it took him a while to get used to us - but he now loves getting hugs too.

Have to admit that there is not much money to be made from yarn store in small community - but there are so many other fringe benefits - friendship, community, service and a lot of yarn fondling


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think she ever wanted an abortion. The pro abortionists used her to get what they wanted.


And she did not have a mind of her own or exercise free will?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yarnie I had a nice Mother's day too. I got to spend lunch with my Mother, sister, brother and sil. I was nice to be together for her special day. My daughter lives away and sent me roses. My boys are getting me bark and helping me with my flower beds. I had a special treat last night. One of the young men that had lived with us on and off for years made contact with me last night. We had lost contact over the years .He told me very uplifting things in ways we helped him while his time with us. It is so refreshing to hear that you have made a person's life alittle better because you loved them. You never know how much you influence by just loving them even tho they act bad.


Glad to hear you had such a nice day - and how special to have it topped off by hearing from one of the young fellows that you loved and supported when he needed it most. God Bless.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

West Coast Kitty, how did your day go? getting ready to go to bed. Have to be up early in the morning to go for hearing test. What did you say I can't hear you


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Good description of the difference. In one case the state makes the decision to execute a criminal. In the other it is the one person who should love and nurture the person who makes the decision.
> 
> I am against the death penalty, but its because going through the process is too expensive. It costs between one and two million dollars in legal fees to put someone through the appeals process. I'd rather they be held in jail for life with no chance of parole and forced to look at pictures of their victims every day. They should be given the worst tasks available and be isolated from the non-violent prison population.


But we ARE the state. We are killing the criminal.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> West Coast Kitty, how did your day go? getting ready to go to bed. Have to be up early in the morning to go for hearing test. What did you say I can't hear you


Hi Yarnie, good to read your words as I missed all of you! Good luck tomorrow. Sleep tight dear lady!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> And she did not have a mind of her own or exercise free will?


Jane Roe did not have the abortion. She gave birth to a daughter who was adopted.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You're a very special lady Yarnie and I'm glad you enjoyed time with your boys and family on the weekend. My family were always hugging each other, but not so much in DH's family - so it took him a while to get used to us - but he now loves getting hugs too.
> 
> Have to admit that there is not much money to be made from yarn store in small community - but there are so many other fringe benefits - friendship, community, service and a lot of yarn fondling


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am in awe of this from Paul Harvey in 1965! What a revelation he had on this one.http://stg.do/9LDc#share


He sure had a lot of insight. Loved Paul Harvey's "Rest of the Story" program - always listened to it when I commuted into work in the 90's


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> But we ARE the state. We are killing the criminal.


Andrea that is OK to kill people once they are here and they call themselves prolife. I guess they have a menu they pick from and some you can kill and some you can't. Sounds like playing God to me.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Piranha or wild dogs. Can't decide which one best decribes some people you pretend they care about people then cut some to the bone.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> They lied to her. So what else is new to a leftie.


What did "they" lie to her about?

Norman MCovey (Jane Roe) has gone through various life challenges and changes. Straight, Lesbian, born again, not born again, raped, not raped. She declared herself as Roe after the Supreme court decision and did not have to do so. Maybe Norma gave as much as she got in the way of her decisions.

One could just as easily say your group manipulated her....,but I won't.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They lied to her. So what else is new to a leftie.


Hiding out over here joey. You are just as funny as the rest. Didn't the GOP send out their talking points today so you can't explain the post? That's what you always do you poor little darling. The big bad lefties bully you and then you run home to Denim and Pearls. I got your number now Joey and anything you ever say in the future I will know is just rubbish. If you ever had any sense you lost it. Cheeky don't like it much here. You guys are no fun at all. Bye Bye now.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hiding out over here joey. You are just as funny as the rest. Didn't the GOP send out their talking points today so you can't explain the post? That's what you always do you poor little darling. The big bad lefties bully you and then you run home to Denim and Pearls. I got your number now Joey and anything you ever say in the future I will know is just rubbish. If you ever had any sense you lost it. Cheeky don't like it much here. You guys are no fun at all. Bye Bye now.


What is wrong with you??????


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Our President is really quite tall. He's also quite bright.


Oh, yes, the lights are on, but no one's home!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They lied to her. So what else is new to a leftie.


You would know about lying, joey. You are pretty good at it. Cat still got your tongue?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hiding out over here joey. You are just as funny as the rest. Didn't the GOP send out their talking points today so you can't explain the post? That's what you always do you poor little darling. The big bad lefties bully you and then you run home to Denim and Pearls. I got your number now Joey and anything you ever say in the future I will know is just rubbish. If you ever had any sense you lost it. Cheeky don't like it much here. You guys are no fun at all. Bye Bye now.


Gosh, you must really be dumb as I read the article and understood what it was meaning--why can't you do the same thing! Guess you need any article explained by someone else!!!!!

:hunf: :twisted: :evil: :mrgreen: :thumbdown: :roll: :XD:

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: to the lefties!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You would know about lying, joey. You are pretty good at it. Cat still got your tongue?


What is your problem? Are you trying to get kicked of again? Who are you trying to impress with your ugliness? Why are you so mad?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You would know about lying, joey. You are pretty good at it. Cat still got your tongue?


No, as I asked you about the cat last evening so you are taking my quotes! Yea, yea!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is your problem? Are you trying to get kicked of again? Who are you trying to impress with your ugliness? Why are you so mad?


CB, cheeky is just stirring up the pot of dung as my dad said "the person who stirs up the pot of dung must lick the spoon!"

Here's your spoon, Cheeky, now lick!

:roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Perfect description


Yes, and racist and bigot would describe you too. If you can't get rid of the black man any other way then start your civil war, Joey. You are the bully, not me. I never proposed starting a civil war here in the U.S. but you did. Ooops, can't delete it now. You are safe in the arms of your fellow hate mongers and racists but you can't live on the blog. Maybe, you have lost site of what is reality and war is as real as it gets.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I feel like I am at a Jerry Springer show. Everyone needs to cool down. Getting out of control.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am wondering why they are still calling the president black. Anyone with a brain knows his mother was white and his father was black. Therefore, he is a mulatto. He is no more black than he is white. The pigment in his skin is darker than his mother and lighter than his father.
> 
> "Mulatto is a term commonly used in the United States to refer to a person who is born from one white parent and one black parent, or more broadly, a person of any "mixed" ancestry."


Very true! The lefties cannot understand that he is a Mulatto!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I feel like I am at a Jerry Springer show. Everyone needs to cool down. Getting out of control.


CB, Cheeky is gone for now so everything is cool!

Good night sweet lady I'm headed to bed for another lovely day tomorrow.

DH, daughter and GD took me out for Mother's Day lunch at PF Chang's so I had the best day with them.

We did not go Sat or Sun because there was a basketball game downtown so too many people!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitcrazy, granted it is expensive to prosecute an individual through a death penalty appeal. It is also expensive to keep someone in prison for their natural life. What is your thinking on that?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like the capital punishment prolifers to me.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Piranha or wild dogs. Can't decide which one best decribes some people you pretend they care about people then cut some to the bone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you looking in a mirror?



Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, the lights are on, but no one's home!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What is your point? This is bizarre.



joeysomma said:


> I am wondering why they are still calling the president black. Anyone with a brain knows his mother was white and his father was black. Therefore, he is a mulatto. He is no more black than he is white. The pigment in his skin is darker than his mother and lighter than his father.
> 
> "Mulatto is a term commonly used in the United States to refer to a person who is born from one white parent and one black parent, or more broadly, a person of any "mixed" ancestry."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What difference would it make to everyone else? I know it is important to you because you fear him.



Janeway said:


> Very true! The lefties cannot understand that he is a Mulatto!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.


I'm pretty sure that she meant "pertinent", not poignant!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow, so the lefties stalked some of you guys and brought their vile thoughts over here.

I guess they just think people will consider them important if people see their avatar over and over and over again. Not true, with multiple postings from the same person, I tend to ignore them. Seems they get a thrill up their legs when they hit the quote reply button over and over again. Pretty pathetic way to live. Heck, even a monkey can be trained to do that.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow, so the lefties stalked some of you guys and brought their vile thoughts over here.
> 
> I guess they just think people will consider them important if people see their avatar over and over and over again. Not true, with multiple postings from the same person, I tend to ignore them. Seems they get a thrill up their legs when they hit the quote reply button over and over again. Pretty pathetic way to live. Heck, even a monkey can be trained to do that.


funnyone lady. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, the lights are on, but no one's home!


Oh Janie miss your tart reply's glad your back hope you had a nice time.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea that is OK to kill people once they are here and they call themselves prolife. I guess they have a menu they pick from and some you can kill and some you can't. Sounds like playing God to me.


Excuse me, but not all pro-life people are in favor of capital punishment. However, there are many pro-abortion people who are against capital punishment. That means they kill the innocent and protect the guilty. Can you explain that to me?

Prediction: there will be no explanation from Cheeky B.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Piranha or wild dogs. Can't decide which one best decribes some people you pretend they care about people then cut some to the bone.


a bit of both it would seem.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Excuse me, but not all pro-life people are in favor of capital punishment. However, there are many pro-abortion people who are against capital punishment. That means they kill the innocent and protect the guilty. That is playing something other than God to me.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Everything done waiting to head out to Dr. 

Lots of grumbling and mubbling going on in gargage yesterday. Chicken coop bing built. Learn to stay out of way, let all of it go as it should.

Beautiful start to the day. Seem's some were busy last night . 

Hope some get up on the right side of the bed today. 

Remember we only have today.

Know you weren't hiding Joeys. Now use answering when they do not listen.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Excuse me, but not all pro-life people are in favor of capital punishment. However, there are many pro-abortion people who are against capital punishment. That means they kill the innocent and protect the guilty. Can you explain that to me?


I went to bed last night thinking about that.
Pro choice but not against the death penalty.

Stopping a life before it has a chance to be something but keeping one a live that has done a something that is punishable by the death penalty.

I really don't think I could server on a jury where the death penalty was going to be considered.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

West Coast knitting, have a nice day off. Hope to get some planting done today. Will see how day goes.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I went to bed last night thinking about that.
> Pro choice but not against the death penalty.
> 
> Stopping a life before it has a chance to be something but keeping one a live that has done a something that is punishable by the death penalty.
> ...


Neither would I.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> West Coast knitting, have a nice day off. Hope to get some planting done today. Will see how day goes.


Yarnie, I hope your appointment goes well.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Excuse me, but not all pro-life people are in favor of capital punishment. However, there are many pro-abortion people who are against capital punishment. That means they kill the innocent and protect the guilty. Can you explain that to me?


"Guilty"--since 1976 116 people on death row have been exonerated and released. Mistakes happen--the death penalty eliminates any chance of rectifying them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Neither would I.


Same--and in fact said so when I got picked once to sit in the jury box.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Guilty"--since 1976 116 people on death row have been exonerated and released. Mistakes happen--the death penalty eliminates any chance of rectifying them.


How about the killing of an unborn baby? That's the taking of an innocent life, and abortion eliminates any chance of rectifying that mistake. How can you accept that?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> How about the killing of an unborn baby? That's the taking of an innocent life, and abortion eliminates any chance of rectifying that mistake. How can you accept that?


Frankly I believe there's a difference between an eight-week old fetus and an eight-year old child. Even pro-lifers seem to recognize this, which is why they're generally willing to forgive women who have abortions but want the heads of woman like Susan Smith.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I believe there's a difference between an eight-week old fetus and an eight-year old child. Even pro-lifers seem to recognize this, which is why they're generally willing to forgive women who have abortions but want the heads of woman like Susan Smith.


That's inconsistent. No matter whose head we want, we don't have the right to take any. The only difference between an 8-week fetus and an 8-year old is time to grow. In both cases, the individual and unique person exists. Do we really have the right to kill either one of them?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

alcameron said:



> But we ARE the state. We are killing the criminal.


The state is a judicial system - a jury of our peers constrained by black law and precedent and a judicial system that works most of the time to better society. Although I don't like spending tax dollars (my money included) to house anyone convicted of a crime, I reaallly don't like housing the average person on death row for 15-20 years and then spending $2 million or more to pay court costs and attorney fees for the appeals process before they are put to death.

I have no problem with deciding they should die. I wouldn't have any problem with pulling the trigger if that person wanted into my home with the intent to kill me either. Once someone deliberately takes the life of an innocent person or threatens to do so, especially during a break and enter or a rape or with a bomb or when they had a duty to protect or when they initiated violence, they have given up the right to expect protection from the victim or society. I just consider it a shame that society can't rid itself of these blights on the public welfare sooner.

God did not have a problem with striking down the violent individual. He condoned warfare to create and protect Jerusalem and he could have struck down the Roman and Jewish leaders who killed Jesus. He didn't because Jesus was the sacrificial lamb who agreed to die for us. I am not a sacrificial lamb, and neither are the innocents who died in Boston, Cleveland, or Colorado.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is wrong with you??????


She has no valid arguments. So she becomes incoherent and flails around.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> That's inconsistent. No matter whose head we want, we don't have the right to take any. The only difference between an 8-week fetus and an 8-year old is time to grow. In both cases, the individual and unique person exists. Do we really have the right to kill either one of them?


In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.

"Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."

I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> God did not have a problem with striking down the violent individual. He condoned warfare to create and protect Jerusalem and he could have struck down the Roman and Jewish leaders who killed Jesus. He didn't because Jesus was the sacrificial lamb who agreed to die for us. I am not a sacrificial lamb, and neither are the innocents who died in Boston, Cleveland, or Colorado.


God is incapable of making mistakes and striking down the wrong person--we are. The execution of even one truly innocent person is too much.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, and racist and bigot would describe you too. If you can't get rid of the black man any other way then start your civil war, Joey. You are the bully, not me. I never proposed starting a civil war here in the U.S. but you did. Ooops, can't delete it now. You are safe in the arms of your fellow hate mongers and racists but you can't live on the blog. Maybe, you have lost site of what is reality and war is as real as it gets.


You are absolutely out of your mind. No one on this site is making decisions or comments about race issues but you.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Very true! The lefties cannot understand that he is a Mulatto!


I never disliked the President for his race. In fact I can think off the top of my head of two black men in recent elections that I could have voted for. I don't like BO because he had no accomplishments before running, he hid his past from the voters, and his goals were socialist in nature. Then, I got a whiff of his religious history and truly knew there was something unAmerican about him. I never even saw him as a black man. He has hidden his blackness from the voter too I guess. The men I could have voted go are black men of achievement.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are absolutely out of your mind. No one on this site is making decisions or comments about race issues but you.


sorry just had to check in before I left oh Knit Crazy your first statement has me laughing my head off. You are so right, it is a mind problem.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> God is incapable of making mistakes and striking down the wrong person--we are. The execution of even one truly innocent person is too much.


I agree susan. However, I have no problem when there is no doubt as to the guilt and the hienousness of the crime.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's inconsistent. No matter whose head we want, we don't have the right to take any. The only difference between an 8-week fetus and an 8-year old is time to grow. In both cases, the individual and unique person exists. Do we really have the right to kill either one of them?


Abortion is legal. So how could society punish the mother who makes that choice?


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.
> 
> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."
> 
> I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/antiabortion-georgia-lawm_n_827340.html

This was in 2011, and yes it never passed.

and yes some people speak before even thinking! It was dumb!

'Prenatal murder' means the intentional removal of a fetus from a woman with an intention other than to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus; provided, however, that if a physician makes a medically justified effort to save the lives of both the mother and the fetus and the fetus does not survive, such action shall not be prenatal murder. Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event.
(c) The act of prenatal murder is contrary to the health and well-being of the citizens of this state and to the state itself and is illegal in this state in all instances.
(d) Any person committing prenatal murder in this state shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be punished as provided in subsection (d) of Code Section 16-5-1.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree susan. However, I have no problem when there is no doubt as to the guilt and the hienousness of the crime.


I agree--but except in cases of self-defense, when someone is coming at you with a gun or knife, it's never that clear-cut. Even the most seemingly open and shut cases can have holes in them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Abortion is legal. So how could society punish the mother who makes that choice?


Killing Jewish people was perfectly legal during the Holocaust, but happily we're still willing to hunt down and punish those who did it.

Frankly I didn't expect that you'd support putting women who, past or present, have had abortion on death row. And that's my point--folks may argue that a fetus is no different than a full-term baby, but in their hearts they know that potential life--whether unfertilized eggs, zygotes, or fetuses--falls in a different category.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."


Susan, I'm just addressing part of what you quoted. The idea that a miscarriage could even remotely be considered murder sounds incredibly insane. I know, some women do try and sometimes succeed in inducing a miscarriage but I think it would be awfully hard to identify them. Makes me wonder if this guy Franklin isn't as unbalanced as that proposal. Do guys like him just hide under rocks and come out periodically to show us how nuts they are? Good
Grief. :!: :thumbdown: :!: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Killing Jewish people was perfectly legal during the Holocaust, but happily we're still willing to hunt down and punish those who did it.
> 
> Frankly I didn't expect that you'd support putting women who, past or present, have had abortion on death row. And that's my point--folks may argue that a fetus is no different than a full-term baby, but in their hearts they know that potential life--whether unfertilized eggs, zygotes, or fetuses--falls in a different category.


I don't support punishing mothers who abort. The guilt they bear is enough. God will punish them. I do believe life starts at conception. Unfertilized eggs are not babies. Silly idea. If so, we'd all be aborting babies each month as we menstrate. Without intervention zygotes are budding fetuses and fetuses are budding babies and toddlers. Abortion is anti-life and legalized murder. Sometimes what is legal is not moral. One of those inexplicable inconsistencies in the law.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Susan, I'm just addressing part of what you quoted. The idea that a miscarriage could even remotely be considered murder sounds incredibly insane. I know, some women do try and sometimes succeed in inducing a miscarriage but I think it would be awfully hard to identify them. Makes me wonder if this guy Franklin isn't as unbalanced as that proposal. Do guys like him just hide under rocks and come out periodically to show us how nuts they are? Good
> Grief. :!: :thumbdown: :!: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Exactly. There are crazy people everywhere.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

A person that gets the death penalty made a choice to commit a crime that carries the death penalty. An aborted child did not have that right.

Find the avatars of some of the lefties hilarious. Don't know about some of you, but I find some offensive. But that is just my opinion.

Sean Smith's mother was on the news regarding her son's murder in Benghazi. She stated that he was a self proclaimed flaming liberal, and that she is an independent. So she is not demanding information regarding her son's death as a political statement. She is so against the Obama Administration. I would pay to see her and Hilary talking about Benghazi. Hummmmmm, mother of a CIA operative vs a wife of an adulterous man.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

You are so right Off2Knit, as those people on the other sites such as L.O.L.L. and smoking & OBO I quoted what my dad always said which is:

Those who stir the pot of dung must lick the pot! :thumbup: :thumbup:  :-D :roll: :roll: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm behind with housework again so must stay off these sites until later. The sun is shinning so it is a beautiful day that God gave me so I'm going to enjoy.

Yarnie hope test is OK.

Love all my friends, hugs, Jane


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.
> 
> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."
> 
> I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


I'd have to see this bill to believe it. Miscarriage is an involuntary action, certainly not punishable unless brought on by a deliberate action as happened to one of Castro's victims. I guess that would be "human involvement" in a miscarriage, and I do think that's a crime.

Most people believe that the women act under severe stress. The abortionists, however, participate in the calm cool scalding, dismemberment, or other means of killing a human being. That is murder. What else would it be?

If mothers had to do the abortions themselves, maybe there would be fewer of them. The facts of abortion are grisly and inhumane. Abortion activists defend those practices rather than trying to make this abominable act at least less horrible and painful for the baby. During abortion procedures, babies shrink away from the instruments, try to avoid having their bodies cut apart. Some people actually think it's okay to abort a fetus after 20 weeks. I don't have words to explain my feelings about that - sadness and anger. I think it's cruel, inhumane, and brutal - and it's done to those most innocent and helpless.

If a girl can't raise the baby, surely she can put it up for adoption rather than kill it. I would think that anyone would understand that it's better to put a baby up for adoption than kill it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.
> 
> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."
> 
> I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


We have courts to defend those accused of murder. That's because the emotions of the family of a murder victim are so raw, so strong, so angry that they of course could probably kill the murderer with their bare hands. BUT - maybe he's innocent. Can't let that happen. So we aren't allowed to take the law into our own hands. Cooler heads must prevail - so a trial with judge and jury of peers must happen.

Except if the "criminal" is an unborn baby. Then the mother is allowed to be judge, jury, and executioner - even though the mother may be in a state of great stress. As for those who get abortions calmly, without distress - I can't explain that. That's a matter of conscience, and I wouldn't want that on mine.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.
> 
> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."
> 
> I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


As for the people who take a person off life support, there is a difference between taking someone off of artificial life support and giving them a deadly drug. The first is no longer intervening, letting nature take its course. The second is the snuffing out of a life. No matter how much we may want to or may think it's okay, I think it's objectively wrong.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are absolutely out of your mind. No one on this site is making decisions or comments about race issues but you.


Cheeky B., what in the world are you talking about?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Janeway said:


> You are so right Off2Knit, as those people on the other sites such as L.O.L.L. and smoking & OBO I quoted what my dad always said which is:
> 
> Those who stir the pot of dung must lick the pot! :thumbup: :thumbup:  :-D :roll: :roll: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Your dad was a wise man. But they are always saying that some of us are stirring the pot. Or what about all the cauldron references? Talk about witch hunt references.....

Same old same old. Guess the Dem playbook is almost decaying by now with all the over use.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Abortion is legal. So how could society punish the mother who makes that choice?


Yes, it is legal. I don't think it should be. I believe the mother has extenuating circumstances - or I hope so, otherwise it would be a cold-hearted decision. I believe the abortionist should be punished for a crime. Murder. After all, this is an innocent and helpless human being - even more innocent and helpless than a young child victim (God forbid).

I must add that I feel a woman who has an abortion due to inconvenience or any other trivial reason not involving great trauma has a very skewed view of life and is putting her own wants above the life of her child. That to me is not in the natural scheme of things - there must be a reason for such thinking which seems very self-centered. Still - I don't know what she's been through - not for me to judge.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Off to pop some popcorn and have some sweet tea in preparation of the White House briefing that is about to start. Starting to feel sorry for Carney, NOT


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Killing Jewish people was perfectly legal during the Holocaust, but happily we're still willing to hunt down and punish those who did it.
> 
> Frankly I didn't expect that you'd support putting women who, past or present, have had abortion on death row. And that's my point--folks may argue that a fetus is no different than a full-term baby, but in their hearts they know that potential life--whether unfertilized eggs, zygotes, or fetuses--falls in a different category.


I am not supporting your point at all. Absolutely not. I'm not sparing the mother because the baby isn't a human being. I believe that in some cases the mother is unable to make a clear-headed decision due to extreme emotional stress and that allowances should be made for that.

I do NOT believe in my heart that a fetus is different from a baby. I believe that life begins at conception - that is when everything starts and -I hope - blossoms.

If you believe in YOUR heart that a fetus is different from a full-term baby, how do you feel about long-term abortions and partial-birth abortions? Do you support them?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Off to pop some popcorn and have some sweet tea in preparation of the White House briefing that is about to start. Starting to feel sorry for Carney, NOT


I know. Do you have to sell your soul to qualify for the position as press secretary? Dana Perino always did a good job - but then, she didn't have such hogwash to defend.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Yarnie - Hope your hearing test goes well and that you get to enjoy planting your flowers.

We're having a provincial election today, so I'm off to vote. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the headline "no matter who becomes premier, residents should expect to be hosed". The next 4 years aren't going to be pretty.

Politicians and governments all around the world seem to put themselves on a higher level and don't follow through with their promises to "serve" the people


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

IT'S TWINS!!!!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


Wow - congrats Grandma! Good thing you've already made so many projects so you have a good head start.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

While waiting for it to start, Fox just announced that Eric Holder has recused himself from the AP investigation. Now the RNC wants him to resign. Wondering how big a payout he will get to fall on that sword?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


Wow, congrats do you know what sex they are yet?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Wow - congrats Grandma! Good thing you've already made so many projects so you have a good head start.


double the fun


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

I used to believe that the death penalty should be an option in very rare and especially horrible circumstances but over the years I've changed my views. I've come to believe that as long as there is life, there is the possibility of redemption and I'm not comfortable making the decision to deliberately take someone's life. I know some conversions are not sincere, but God knows our hearts so He will know who is true. But I also believe that those convicted of murder should not be released from prison


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - Hope your hearing test goes well and that you get to enjoy planting your flowers.
> 
> We're having a provincial election today, so I'm off to vote. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the headline "no matter who becomes premier, residents should expect to be hosed". The next 4 years aren't going to be pretty.
> 
> Politicians and governments all around the world seem to put themselves on a higher level and don't follow through with their promises to "serve" the people


To quote the infamous Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain."


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


How exciting!! I've always thought twins were the most amazing babies - along with triplets, etc. How precious - double congratulations to all of you! You will be a busy family soon.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> While waiting for it to start, Fox just announced that Eric Holder has recused himself from the AP investigation. Now the RNC wants him to resign. Wondering how big a payout he will get to fall on that sword?


What? He should have resigned or been fired over Fast and Furious. How interesting. "What a tangled web we weave...."

1:00 and still no press conference. Hmmm.....memorizing your lines takes a long time.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

You know it is a bad press conference, when my son saw a shot of the press pool, and commented on how sad the reporters looked. He said it looked like one of the guys was about to cry due to a death family memeber


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, it is legal. I don't think it should be. I believe the mother has extenuating circumstances - or I hope so, otherwise it would be a cold-hearted decision. I believe the abortionist should be punished for a crime. Murder. After all, this is an innocent and helpless human being - even more innocent and helpless than a young child victim (God forbid).
> 
> I must add that I feel a woman who has an abortion due to inconvenience or any other trivial reason not involving great trauma has a very skewed view of life and is putting her own wants above the life of her child. That to me is not in the natural scheme of things - there must be a reason for such thinking which seems very self-centered. Still - I don't know what she's been through - not for me to judge.


I agree whole heartedly.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I agree whole heartedly.


I appreciate that - it's good that we can support one another.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I used to believe that the death penalty should be an option in very rare and especially horrible circumstances but over the years I've changed my views. I've come to believe that as long as there is life, there is the possibility of redemption and I'm not comfortable making the decision to deliberately take someone's life. I know some conversions are not sincere, but God knows our hearts so He will know who is true. But I also believe that those convicted of murder should not be released from prison


I agree.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Congrats Thumper. Double trouble, but in a good way.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> If you believe in YOUR heart that a fetus is different from a full-term baby, how do you feel about long-term abortions and partial-birth abortions? Do you support them?


Given the heavy regulation of and rarity of late-term abortions I don't feel it's any of my business. No woman decides on a whim to have an abortion in her last trimester, and no doctor will perform the procedure unless something is seriously wrong. When the fetus has abnormalities incompatible with life--no heart or no brain, for example--the decision about what to do is between the woman, her doctor, and God.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - Hope your hearing test goes well and that you get to enjoy planting your flowers.
> 
> We're having a provincial election today, so I'm off to vote. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the headline "no matter who becomes premier, residents should expect to be hosed". The next 4 years aren't going to be pretty.
> 
> Politicians and governments all around the world seem to put themselves on a higher level and don't follow through with their promises to "serve" the people


I am deaf, well at least husband thinks so little does he know don't want to answer. Fine but hearing is fading do to inear infection as a child, lance ear drum with a knive to let infection out. Also just plane aging not bad yet an worst things in life happening to others.
Agree with you about Politicians, seems every country is seeing the lost of control by our goverments. But you voted and that counts for something. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


yippee yahoo, wow yes wonderful two, and look what you got for waiting so long. Must go back and do another set of every thing made now for just one.

Do you know if they are boys girls girl andboy???

Really so very happy for you Thumper.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I used to believe that the death penalty should be an option in very rare and especially horrible circumstances but over the years I've changed my views. I've come to believe that as long as there is life, there is the possibility of redemption and I'm not comfortable making the decision to deliberately take someone's life. I know some conversions are not sincere, but God knows our hearts so He will know who is true. But I also believe that those convicted of murder should not be released from prison


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yippee yahoo, wow yes wonderful two, and look what you got for waiting so long. Must go back and do another set of every thing made now for just one.
> 
> Do you know if they are boys girls girl boy???
> 
> Really so very happy for you Thumper.


They're fraternal so it could be any combination.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> They're fraternal so it could be any combination.


Oh oh you lucky grandma, Just see by your post how excited you are.

Envie you miss having little ones to hug play with and spoil rotten. :thumbup:


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Guilty"--since 1976 116 people on death row have been exonerated and released. Mistakes happen--the death penalty eliminates any chance of rectifying them.


It also eliminates any chance of them getting out and giving us a repeat performance.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Given the heavy regulation of and rarity of late-term abortions I don't feel it's any of my business. No woman decides on a whim to have an abortion in her last trimester, and no doctor will perform the procedure unless something is seriously wrong.


Where have you been the last 2 months? Gosnell was a licensed doctor.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> It also eliminates any chance of them getting out and giving us a repeat performance.


Repeat performance of what? Exonerate means they didn't do what they were executed for. That is a sick thing to say.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


OH MY! Aren't you blessed!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Repeat performance of what? Exonerate means they didn't do what they were executed for. That is a sick thing to say.


nodding


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Susan I think you need to catch up with what is going on in your state. I don't believe this passed and this info is several years old.

Please let me know if I am thinking of something else.



susanmos2000 said:


> In a sense it is inconsistent--but no more so than families who make the hard decision to remove their loved ones from life support. Their actions are undeniably hastening the death of a living person, but still they grieve--and I don't consider them hypocrites.
> 
> "Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death."
> 
> I doubt this will pass, but would you be comfortable with it if it did? If abortion is murder then why not put all those who have them on death row? Why not make it retroactive and execute all those women who've had abortions since Roe vs Wade?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Given the heavy regulation of and rarity of late-term abortions I don't feel it's any of my business. No woman decides on a whim to have an abortion in her last trimester, and no doctor will perform the procedure unless something is seriously wrong. When the fetus has abnormalities incompatible with life--no heart or no brain, for example--the decision about what to do is between the woman, her doctor, and God.


That makes sense, but I do think there are abuses as in the case of Gosnell. Those were supposed to be late-term abortions. 
I feel as you do, that now the decision is between the woman, her doctor, and God. That's why have no right to judge - only God knows what's in her heart and mind. That's our common ground. The difference is that I think our laws should be changed to protect the life of the baby.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank you sjrNC I thought my memory was still working.



sjrNC said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/23/antiabortion-georgia-lawm_n_827340.html
> 
> This was in 2011, and yes it never passed.
> 
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Wonderful! Double the Pleasure. You'll just need to knit twice as fast. And how about two quilts.



thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> To quote the infamous Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain."


Thanks Bon -- I think there aren't too many places not feeling the pain these days


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I am deaf, well at least husband thinks so little does he know don't want to answer. Fine but hearing is fading do to inear infection as a child, lance ear drum with a knive to let infection out. Also just plane aging not bad yet an worst things in life happening to others.
> Agree with you about Politicians, seems every country is seeing the lost of control by our goverments. But you voted and that counts for something. :thumbup:


You have a good attitude which counts for a lot. If it gets worse, there are really good hearing aids available (and you can always turn it off when you want to - my Dad has been known to do that which sometimes annoys my Mom)

Have to vote so I have a right to complain. Will find out after 8 tonight whether "bad" or "worse" will lead the government for the next 4 years

How's the chicken house coming along? Did you plant your flowers?


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Repeat performance of what? Exonerate means they didn't do what they were executed for. That is a sick thing to say.


Sorry, what I meant to say was that too many guilty people get off with life with possibility of parole. When they get out, they are out there committing crimes again. That happens too many times in this liberal hand-wringing society we now have. Murders getting off and victims families picking up the pieces. Oh, many of those 100+ you quoted got freed because of DNA evidence that wasn't available when they were convicted. Now it is becoming standard procedure in high-end (murder, rape, etc.) cases. However, I would still rather have the risk of an innocent person being convicted and punished than a guilty one roaming around loose. And, in fact, those cases are rare.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am deaf, well at least husband thinks so little does he know don't want to answer. Fine but hearing is fading do to inear infection as a child, lance ear drum with a knive to let infection out. Also just plane aging not bad yet an worst things in life happening to others.
> Agree with you about Politicians, seems every country is seeing the lost of control by our goverments. But you voted and that counts for something. :thumbup:


Glad the results were not too bad as we age the body goes to pot. Ear infections are bad as I've had some as an adult!

Glad you are back on with us.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Sorry, what I meant to say was that too many guilty people get off with life with possibility of parole. When they get out, they are out there committing crimes again. That happens too many times in this liberal hand-wringing society we now have. Murders getting off and victims families picking up the pieces. Oh, many of those 100+ you quoted got freed because of DNA evidence that wasn't available when they were convicted. Now it is becoming standard procedure in high-end (murder, rape, etc.) cases. However, I would still rather have the risk of an innocent person being convicted and punished than a guilty one roaming around loose. And, in fact, those cases are rare.


What if you or your child were the rare innocent one?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Sorry, that last one was done in a hurry. I didn't mean it to sound so sharp. I would genuinely like to know.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

StitchDesigner
Your words:

However, I would still rather have the risk of an innocent person being convicted and punished than a guilty one roaming around loose. And, in fact, those cases are rare.

Read this and tell us 1 in 8 is rare.

A Question of Innocence
On April 8, 2002, Ray Krone was released from prison in Arizona after DNA evidence proved that he was not responsible for the 1991 murder of a Phoenix bartender. Krone became the 100th person exonerated and released from death row since 1973. Convicted twice for a brutal murder, Krone spent ten years in prison, two of them on death row. The DNA evidence that ultimately proved his innocence also implicated the real murderer. 


Unfortunately, Ray Krone's story is not unique. As of February 2004, 113 inmates had been found innocent and released from death row. More than half of these have been released in the last 10 years. That means one person has been exonerated for every eight people executed. 

A study by Columbia University professor James Liebman examined thousands of capital sentences that had been reviewed by courts in 34 states from 1973 to 1995. ""An astonishing 82 percent of death row inmates did not deserve to receive the death penalty,"" he said in his conclusion. ""One in twenty death row inmates is later found not guilty.""

The vast majority of those exonerated were found innocent because someone came forward to confess committing the crime; key witness testimony was found to be illegitimate; or new evidence was found to support innocence

In many other cases, it was good fortune rather than the criminal justice system that established innocence. In several cases, college or law school students investigated cases and unearthed essential evidence. For example, students in an investigative journalism class at Webster University uncovered evidence of misconduct by prosecutors, who talked a witness into giving false testimony and withheld crucial trial evidence, and helped get a new trial for Louisiana death row inmate Richard Clay. If it had not been for the work of these students, an innocent person may have been put to death. 

Although there has been much attention surrounding the use of DNA testing, only 13 death row inmates of 113 have been exonerated by use of DNA. Many people falsely believe that DNA testing is a panacea that guarantees innocent people will not be put to death. However, it is important to note that DNA testing is not always able to determine the killer. In many cases, there is no physical evidence to test. DNA testing can be a critical tool for proving innocence, but it is still only available in a fraction of cases. For instance, five of the seventeen people released from death row were released because DNA evidence revealed their innocence.

The potential risk of executing an innocent person is horrific and the ultimate indicator that America's criminal justice system is broken. Even the most ardent proponent of capital punishment has no tolerance for the execution of innocent people. The exoneration of 113 death row inmates undoubtedly demonstrates that the capital punishment system is in desperate need of reform. 

Case Studies
Joseph Amrine was sentenced to death for murdering a fellow inmate in 1986, a conviction based largely on circumstantial and conflicting evidence. After the trial, three men who testified against Amrine recanted their stories, leaving no evidence linking him to the murder. In addition, a corrections office that witnessed the murder testified that Amrine was not responsible for the death. In a 4-3 vote in April 2003, the Missouri Supreme Court ordered Amrine released 30 days from their mandate. After spending 18 years on death row, Joseph Amrine was released from prison after prosecutors decided there was not enough evidence to re-try him. 

Earl Washington, who was found to suffer from pronounced mental retardation, was sentenced to death in 1984 after falsely confessing to the rape and murder of a woman in Virginia. DNA tests conducted after he was sentenced to death proved that he was not the rapist. Mr. Washington was released in 2000, but only after serving 16 years in prison, 14 of them on death row, for a crime he did not commit. 

Anthony Porter was convicted in 1982 of a drug-related double murder. In September 1998, 2 days before his scheduled execution, his volunteer lawyer won a stay to look into his mental competency (Porter's IQ has been assessed as between 51 and 75). Then a vital witness recanted, and journalism students at Northwestern University, along with a volunteer criminal investigator, obtained a videotaped confession from the actual murderer. The actual murderer was subsequently sentenced to 37 years in prison. Released in 1999, Mr. Porter spent 16 years on Illinois death row for a murder did not commit. 

Look at the average numbers of executions to exonerations here

Click here to learn about the exonerations of mentally retarded death row prisoners.

campaign»


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Got my new Knit Picks today.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> IT'S TWINS!!!!


I am so happy for you Thumper. Your family is increasing by leaps and bounds. You can make some lovely baby things. I don't have any new babies to knit for right now, but my niece and nephew's wife will probably be increasing in a year or two. They each have a 1-year-old daughter. They are just beginning to walk and are so precious.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> Where have you been the last 2 months? Gosnell was a licensed doctor.


Heard of another doctor in Maryland doing the same late-term murders. What needs to happen is elimination of abortion or at least limiting the time to 12 weeks. Maryland's timeframe is 26 weeks. Unacceptable!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Got my new Knit Picks today.


What goodies did you get?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Heard of another doctor in Maryland doing the same late-term murders. What needs to happen is elimination of abortion or at least limiting the time to 12 weeks. Maryland's timeframe is 26 weeks. Unacceptable!


Not to all.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> What goodies did you get?


Nothing. lol Just the book. It has some cute Yeti boots that would be cute for my grandboys. Sorry to leave out catalog. Alot of cute shawl patterns in it. I know you have so many cute patterns and yarn it your shop. :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Heard of another doctor in Maryland doing the same late-term murders. What needs to happen is elimination of abortion or at least limiting the time to 12 weeks. Maryland's timeframe is 26 weeks. Unacceptable!


Terrible.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not to all.


It has been shown that babies at 20 weeks feel pain. Many states have banned abortion past 20 weeks. Peacegoddess, are you saying that it's acceptable to you to abort a baby who can feel pain?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nothing. lol Just the book. It has some cute Yeti boots that would be cute for my grandboys. Sorry to leave out catalog. Alot of cute shawl patterns in it. I know you have so many cute patterns and yarn it your shop. :thumbup:


always fun looking at what's new and thinking about what to do next; how's the gator for your gs coming along?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It has been shown that babies at 20 weeks feel pain. Many states have banned abortion past 20 weeks. Peacegoddess, are you saying that it's acceptable to you to abort a baby who can feel pain?


I would say yes, in at least some cases. A few fetuses have developmental issues that are incompatible with life--they have 0% chance of survival and in fact will die the minute they are separated from the mother's body. I'm not quite sure what I'd do if I were facing this situation--thank God it's relatively rare--but forcing mothers to carry these babies to term, then watch them die when the umbilical cord is cut seems wrong.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I would say yes, in at least some cases. A few fetuses have developmental issues that are incompatible with life--they have 0% chance of survival and in fact will die the minute they are separated from the mother's body. I'm not quite sure what I'd do if I were facing this situation--thank God it's relatively rare--but forcing mothers to carry these babies to term, then watch them die when the umbilical cord is cut seems wrong.


Most of these are just unwanted children. You are just rationalizing that this is OK because it is harder to think the mothers are just women who waffled about requesting an abortion until too late in a pregnancy. It is harder to visualize the truth. These babies would have lived, breathed, cried, suckled, and grown into children who ran, jumped, laughed, and kissed their mothers. The truth is that abortion is just another way to murder a human being, your child, because he/she was not convenient.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I would say yes, in at least some cases. A few fetuses have developmental issues that are incompatible with life--they have 0% chance of survival and in fact will die the minute they are separated from the mother's body. I'm not quite sure what I'd do if I were facing this situation--thank God it's relatively rare--but forcing mothers to carry these babies to term, then watch them die when the umbilical cord is cut seems wrong.


It would be very difficult for the mother. It would be even more horrendous for the baby. As for me, I can't imagine seeing or feeling my baby struggling in reaction to pain, knowing that I had caused it. To me, if it's the mother's difficulty or the baby's suffering and death, I'd choose the mother's difficulty.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

I have heard that the FBI has opened a probe into the IRS. This is getting deeper and deeper into the territory of impeachment for Obama. He and J. Carney had a bad day trying to field reporter's questions on all the scandals. The press is now irate that the White House is stone walling on the probe into the wiretapping of AP reporters. Suddenly they have some skin in this game. 

Regarding the IRS problem, a liberal group ProPublica is reporting that the IRS leaked the documents of conservative applicants for tax exempt status. ProPublica says after the 2012 election it requested documents from 67 organizations, and the IRS sent them information on 31 groups. Nine of groups had not yet been approved for nonprofit status. Releasing information on unapproved applicants is against IRS rules.

All the groups the IRS sent information on were for conservative groups, ProPublica said. None were for liberal groups, even though ProPublica requested information on liberal and centrist groups.

Too much coming out, and where there is smoke .... Just hope the pressure on Benghazi doesn't get bypassed.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Most of these are just unwanted children. You are just rationalizing that this is OK because it is harder to think the mothers are just women who waffled about requesting an abortion until too late in a pregnancy. It is harder to visualize the truth. These babies would have lived, breathed, cried, suckled, and grown into children who ran, jumped, laughed, and kissed their mothers. The truth is that abortion is just another way to murder a human being, your child, because he/she was not convenient.


You could well be right--but a unilateral ban on late-term abortions would affect all pregnant women no matter what the circumstances.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I have heard that the FBI has opened a probe into the IRS. This is getting deeper and deeper into the territory of impeachment for Obama. He and J. Carney had a bad day trying to field reporter's questions on all the scandals. The press is now irate that the White House is stone walling on the probe into the wiretapping of AP reporters. Suddenly they have some skin in this game.
> 
> Regarding the IRS problem, a liberal group ProPublica is reporting that the IRS leaked the documents of conservative applicants for tax exempt status. ProPublica says after the 2012 election it requested documents from 67 organizations, and the IRS sent them information on 31 groups. Nine of groups had not yet been approved for nonprofit status. Releasing information on unapproved applicants is against IRS rules.
> 
> ...


I'm with you. I don't think Benghazi will be forgotten. There are people who won't allow the IRS and the AP scandals to be distractions. It's an old ploy, though.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It would be very difficult for the mother. It would be even more horrendous for the baby. As for me, I can't imagine seeing or feeling my baby struggling in reaction to pain, knowing that I had caused it. To me, if it's the mother's difficulty or the baby's suffering and death, I'd choose the mother's difficulty.


No, quite honestly I don't think I could bear it either. If I knew there was absolutely no chance of the baby's survival outside the womb I'd probably ask for labor to be induced, then let nature take its course.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I have heard that the FBI has opened a probe into the IRS. This is getting deeper and deeper into the territory of impeachment for Obama. He and J. Carney had a bad day trying to field reporter's questions on all the scandals. The press is now irate that the White House is stone walling on the probe into the wiretapping of AP reporters. Suddenly they have some skin in this game.
> 
> Regarding the IRS problem, a liberal group ProPublica is reporting that the IRS leaked the documents of conservative applicants for tax exempt status. ProPublica says after the 2012 election it requested documents from 67 organizations, and the IRS sent them information on 31 groups. Nine of groups had not yet been approved for nonprofit status. Releasing information on unapproved applicants is against IRS rules.
> 
> ...


 Thankful all the lies are coming out into the light.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> always fun looking at what's new and thinking about what to do next; how's the gator for your gs coming along?


Slow . His birthday is tomorrow so I had to get him another present. He wanted his Mimi to get him an angry bird skateboard. Hope he doesn't brake anything while on it. How was your day off?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Slow . His birthday is tomorrow so I had to get him another present. He wanted his Mimi to get him an angry bird skateboard. Hope he doesn't brake anything while on it. How was your day off?


I'm always surprised to see how these little guys keep their balance on those things - hope he has a great birthday. Is this the same gs that just had his tonsils out?

I'm on my own for the next week - DH left for Edmonton this morning. My parents have moved from their condo to a senior's apartment and have given us some of their things so he's gone to pick them up. Also gives him a chance to visit some of his family in sourthern Alberta before he comes home next week. It already feels too quiet here.

Hope you enjoy the birthday party tomorrow.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, quite honestly I don't think I could bear it either. If I knew there was absolutely no chance of the baby's survival outside the womb I'd probably ask for labor to be induced, then let nature take its course.


That is sick. My stomach just lurched at that thought of someone doing that.

Inducing labor/abortion is letting nature take it's course? If nature were to take it's course, the baby would be still in the womb and born 20 weeks later


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It has been shown that babies at 20 weeks feel pain. Many states have banned abortion past 20 weeks. Peacegoddess, are you saying that it's acceptable to you to abort a baby who can feel pain?


It is up to the woman......her private decision.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Most of these are just unwanted children. You are just rationalizing that this is OK because it is harder to think the mothers are just women who waffled about requesting an abortion until too late in a pregnancy. It is harder to visualize the truth. These babies would have lived, breathed, cried, suckled, and grown into children who ran, jumped, laughed, and kissed their mothers. The truth is that abortion is just another way to murder a human being, your child, because he/she was not convenient.


You are a mind reader who can tell what other women think and feel?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> That is sick. My stomach just lurched at that thought of someone doing that.
> 
> Inducing labor/abortion is letting nature take it's course? If nature were to take it's course, the baby would be still in the womb and born 20 weeks later


You have no idea what nature's course is in every instance.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> You have no idea what nature's course is in every instance.


Inducing labor at 20 weeks, not to save the mother's life is not letting nature take it's course.

I remember at 3 months during an ultra sound my son was sucking his thumb and got mad when the wand bumped him and he lost hold of his thumb until he found it again. He was a thumb sucker for several years after he was born. Doing what you suggest at 20 weeks is as sick as what that doctor did in Philadelphia in not my so humble opinion


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Inducing labor at 20 weeks, not to save the mother's life is not letting nature take it's course.
> 
> I remember at 3 months during an ultra sound my son was sucking his thumb and got mad when the wand bumped him and he lost hold of his thumb until he found it again. He was a thumb sucker for several years after he was born. Doing what you suggest at 20 weeks is as sick as what that doctor did in Philadelphia in not my so humble opinion


Now you ascribe complicated emotions like anger to a fetus. I do not suggest, I assert that it is a woman's private choice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You could well be right--but a unilateral ban on late-term abortions would affect all pregnant women no matter what the circumstances.


I don't think it would. It would affect all pregnant women who are beyond a certain point in pregnancy.

The big question is how does our society regard the lives of human beings. Do we want to protect all or some lives. If some, who gets to decide which lives are worthy of protection?

We don't allow parents to decide their children require punishment by beating or starving. Should we allow parents to decide whether their child lives or dies? Do we cherish and protect all innocent children? Or do we let parents have the power of life and death over their children?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, quite honestly I don't think I could bear it either. If I knew there was absolutely no chance of the baby's survival outside the womb I'd probably ask for labor to be induced, then let nature take its course.


That would be a sad time.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Now you ascribe complicated emotions like anger to a fetus. I do not suggest, I assert that it is a woman's private choice.


None of us lives in a vacuum. There really aren't decisions any of us can make that don't involve others or that have no impact on others.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

off2knit said:


> That is sick. My stomach just lurched at that thought of someone doing that.
> 
> Inducing labor/abortion is letting nature take it's course? If nature were to take it's course, the baby would be still in the womb and born 20 weeks later


If Susan knew the baby would not survive outside the womb, she's saying she'd just kill it early for her convenience, I guess. If it wouldn't survive after birth, why not just let it be born naturally and let it die as easily as possible. I don't understand such thinking. It would be a tragedy, but accepting the guilt for an abortion is a greater tragedy. You'd bear that for the rest of your life. Why do it? Not logical or moral.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Now you ascribe complicated emotions like anger to a fetus. I do not suggest, I assert that it is a woman's private choice.


Call it whatever you wish it is still a forming human being. Yes, many have deformities but it is how we treat those with issues that supposedly make us a civil society.

The reality is that, even at full term, an infant cannot survive outside the womb without constant care and supervision. So, it would be ok with you that these children be abused or starved if it was not convenient to the mother to care for it? In your opinion, at what point does that life have a value?

Don't get me wrong. I respect the law. I don't like it much at all, but I find that the number of abortions done speaks volumes about the women of today and it's not good.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> If Susan knew the baby would not survive outside the womb, she's saying she'd just kill it early for her convenience, I guess. If it wouldn't survive after birth, why not just let it be born naturally and let it die as easily as possible. I don't understand such thinking. It would be a tragedy, but accepting the guilt for an abortion is a greater tragedy. You'd bear that for the rest of your life. Why do it? Not logical or moral.


Not your judgement to make on someone else's decision.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You could well be right--but a unilateral ban on late-term abortions would affect all pregnant women no matter what the circumstances.


A similar argument could be made about the death penalty:

Most babies aborted are merely unwanted, but some are developmentally challenged. So abortion should be legal for all babies.

Most death row inmates are guilty of heinous crimes worthy of death, but some death row inmates can be proven innocent. So execution should be legal for all death row inmates.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Call it whatever you wish it is still a forming human being. Yes, many have deformities but it is how we treat those with issues that supposedly make us a civil society.
> 
> The reality is that, even at full term, an infant cannot survive outside the womb without constant care and supervision. So, it would be ok with you that these children be abused or starved if it was not convenient to the mother to care for it? In your opinion, at what point does that life have a value?
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I respect the law. I don't like it much at all, but I find that the number of abortions done speaks volumes about the women of today and it's not good.


You do not have the inside line on what an individual woman goes through when making such a decision. You know your mind and your emotions for now. Isn't there something in your christian religion about judge not lest ye be judged? Get out of other women's private decisions. Abortion is a difficult choice. those of us who support choice want it to be safe, legal, and infrequent.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> A similar argument could be made about the death penalty:
> 
> Most babies aborted are merely unwanted, but some are developmentally challenged. So abortion should be legal for all babies.
> 
> Most death row inmates are guilty of heinous crimes worthy of death, but some death row inmates can be proven innocent. So execution should be legal for all death row inmates.


The death penalty is committed by the government in the name of (all) the people. Abortion is a private and individual decision.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Aborting is just that,aborting, you can not make it be any other thing. what if the doctor is wrong? What if the women decides to late that she should have not done it. Most women I have know regret doing just that. It's a decision that affects a women for the rest of their lives. That being the case and one feels wrong about it. There must be truth that it is not the right thing to do. I find that most women who push for abortion are the same women who have not had one or would not want to do it. If I knew my baby would not live after birth I would still carry it to term. You can not nor should anyone decide what is life and what is not. I lost a baby and to this day I have not forgotten that soul,that baby. No it wasn't an abortion, it was what God deem what was to be.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You do not have the inside line on what an individual woman goes through when making such a decision. You know your mind and your emotions for now. Isn't there something in your christian religion about judge not lest ye be judged? Get out of other women's private decisions. Abortion is a difficult choice. those of us who support choice want it to be safe, legal, and infrequent.


There are two people affected directly by an abortion, the child and the mother. However, those who support abortion are considering only the mother's rights, not the child's. That's illogical. I recognize abortion has been determined legal, and I believe and support the rule of law. But, just as prohibition was eliminated, so will abortion be eliminated. Science is progressing, and we can no longer say that an infant in utero does not dream, feel the need for comfort, and suffer. The truth is, "Mothers, it isn't all about you."


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Aborting is just that,aborting, you can not make it be any other thing. what if the doctor is wrong? What if the women decides to late that she should have not done it. Most women I have know regret doing just that. It's a decision that affects a women for the rest of their lives. That being the case and one feels wrong about it. There must be truth that it is not the right thing to do. I find that most women who push for abortion are the same women who have not had one or would not want to do it. If I knew my baby would not live after birth I would still carry it to term. You can not nor should anyone decide what is life and what is not. I lost a baby and to this day I have not forgotten that soul,that baby. No it wasn't an abortion, it was what God
> deem what was to be.


I am sorry for you for such a sad event and I see you mourn daily. that is you. How do you "find that most women...? Are you conducting a survey?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> There are two people affected directly by an abortion, the child and the mother. However, those who support abortion are considering only the mother's rights, not the child's. That's illogical. I recognize abortion has been determined legal, and I believe and support the rule of law. But, just as prohibition was eliminated, so will abortion be eliminated. Science is progressing, and we can no longer say that an infant in utero does not dream, feel the need for comfort, and suffer. The truth is, "Mothers, it isn't all about you."


In the question of abortion it is about the woman. You make your decisions, let them make theirs.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> You do not have the inside line on what an individual woman goes through when making such a decision. You know your mind and your emotions for now. Isn't there something in your christian religion about judge not lest ye be judged? Get out of other women's private decisions. Abortion is a difficult choice. those of us who support choice want it to be safe, legal, and infrequent.


Then there is no such thing as right or wrong? Why have prisons then?

Yes, it is the woman's choice but so many are opting for this and it's shameful.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> If Susan knew the baby would not survive outside the womb, she's saying she'd just kill it early for her convenience, I guess. If it wouldn't survive after birth, why not just let it be born naturally and let it die as easily as possible. I don't understand such thinking. It would be a tragedy, but accepting the guilt for an abortion is a greater tragedy. You'd bear that for the rest of your life. Why do it? Not logical or moral.


I'm talking about a fetus lacking some vital component--a heart or a brain, body, or head. If it was 100% certain to die at birth I'd consider it more humane to induce labor as quickly as possible, before the fetus developed a rudimentary consciousness or the capacity to feel pain. Fortunately these kinds of situation are rare--but then so are late-term abortions (approximately 1.4%).


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As far as to what is going on in our nation it all could be put to rest. All the President has to do, is release all the information and bring it out to the public. 

If innocent than it would clear the President, if not then at least the truth would be know. 

I do not know what he and his staff knew, but I would think it is better to get it out there if he and his staff are innocent of it all. 

Erasing talking point, will make someone find out eventually. Because as you may notice it is building up in the news every where. 
That's what happen with Nixon, someone out there will find out and then what will happen.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Then there is no such thing as right or wrong? Why have prisons then?
> 
> Yes, it is the woman's choice but so many are opting for this and it's shameful.


What constitutes "so many"? Late term abortions are very infrequent.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What constitutes "so many"? Late term abortions are very infrequent.


I'm referring to the number of total abortions done. Not just late term.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> In the question of abortion it is about the woman. You make your decisions, let them make theirs.


But that's the issue. The child is never offered a choice. I don't think there are any babies in utero who would choose death. If so, they'd have to be very depressed, but that would be ascribing one of those "complex" emotions wouldn't it? All living things first and foremost seek life. So where in your rationalization that abortion is a woman's private decision alone does the child's private desire to live fit? Oh, that's right, it's all about you, isn't it?

If your argument is that I should decide if abortion is right for me and you should decide if it is right for you, then I guess I could decide not to brutalize my young child, and you could decide that you could without penalty. If so, the sadist in Cleveland should be let out of jail. Nobody should have the right to make a private decision to murder. Only the legal system should have that right and only for a reason that benefits society.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

The truth is that our society evaluates and passes judgement on the relative value and expected quality of life every step of the way--removing loved ones from life support, turning down experimental treatments for children with cancer, attempted separation of conjoined twins despite grave risks to one or both. These are terrible gut-wrenching decisions to have to make, and whatever the outcome it's the families involved that have to live with it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am sorry for you for such a sad event and I see you mourn daily. that is you. How do you "find that most women...? Are you conducting a survey?


I don't have to have a survey, I have seem what it has done to the women in my life, and they regret what they did.

We all have a conscious, and we all regret things we have done. Abortion is one of them.

How about a survey with all of us here, and telling the truth. Have any of you had an abortion? I am willing to bet none have. So why would any of us want this for any women. My thoughts on this subject.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't have to have a survey, I have seem what it has done to the women in my life, and they regret what they did.
> 
> We all have a conscious, and we all regret things we have done. Abortion is one of them.
> 
> How about a survey with all of us here, and telling the truth. Have any of you had an abortion? I am willing to bet none have. So why would any of us want this for any women. My thoughts on this subject.


I don't "want" abortion for any woman--only she knows the ins and outs of her situation.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't have to have a survey, I have seem what it has done to the women in my life, and they regret what they did.
> 
> We all have a conscious, and we all regret things we have done. Abortion is one of them.
> 
> How about a survey with all of us here, and telling the truth. Have any of you had an abortion? I am willing to bet none have. So why would any of us want this for any women. My thoughts on this subject.


No abortions, one miscarriage at 10 weeks that I grieved, and 4 live births. I am convinced that I will meet my unborn child in heaven and that the women who abort will too unless they don't get there because they didn't repent and ask for forgiveness. Even one of the murderers next to Jesus on the cross received forgiveness. So, I guess an abortionist or a mother who aborts could receive forgiveness for this moral crime.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The truth is that our society evaluates and passes judgement on the relative value and expected quality of life every step of the way--removing loved ones from life support, turning down experimental treatments for children with cancer, attempted separation of conjoined twins despite grave risks to one or both. These are terrible gut-wrenching decisions to have to make, and whatever the outcome it's the families involved that have to live with it.


Livimg Wills take it out of the hands of who desides when life ends. Now we have three states that pass a law for assited death. I do not agree with that. I also do not want someone who commites a crime put to death. But I do feel that they should not be allowed to be release in their life time. 
I also do not feel as the men in Colorado said he was guilty, and now is claiming insanity. I wonder how many are really insane. Would think not as many as are claiming to be.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Livimg Wills take it out of the hands of who desides when life ends. Now we have three states that pass a law for assited death. I do not agree with that. I also do not want someone who commites a crime put to death. But I do feel that they should not be allowed to be release in their life time.
> I also do not feel as the men in Colorado said he was guilty, and now is claiming insanity. I wonder how many are really insane. Would think not as many as are claiming to be.


Have a friend who is a psychologist and worked in a prison in Indiana before retiring a couple of years ago. According to him, many in prison are diagnosed. That doesn't mean they are not guilty or that they didn't know right from wrong. Some are so sick that society just needs to be protected from them and they should never be released. I'm just not sure that they should be executed. If we are applying the abortion logic to their situation, they should be. It would be better for you and me that we don't continue to feed and house them. No need for a legal judgment, just a psychiatrist's determination of insanity, and Poof, they would be gone.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

If you feel and have not had a abortion, why would you want it to be allowed for another women.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I never had a miscarriage or abortion, nor can I imagine ever choosing to have an abortion, but I do remember the affects of 'back alley' abortions. I am in favor of abortion being available to those who choose it. I feel it should be a private, medical decision between a woman and her physician.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

There were very severe Constitutional issues with Roe v Wade.

1) The Constitution says that moot issues cannot be tried. The case should have been thrown out by the courts as Jane Roe had already given birth, thus no longer "needed" an abortion.

2) The Constitution says that hypothetical cases cannot be tried. In a hypothetical case there is no client. The lawyers that brought Roe v Wade *did not* have the consent of Jane Roe to proceed. Without her consent there is no client.

Eventually these issues will be re-addressed by the Court. The SCOTUS is just another fallible institution of man. Just think Dred Scott.

Someone earlier said that the woman who was Roe put the baby girl up for adoption. Something about the wording made me think that the posting was thinking how awful that was. And I have heard pro-abortion people say that adoption is awful for the mothers. HUH!

And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about...I do.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I never had a miscarriage or abortion, nor can I imagine ever choosing to have an abortion, but I do remember the affects of 'back alley' abortions. I am in favor of abortion being available to those who choose it. I feel it should be a private, medical decision between a woman and her physician.


So if you never had one, how do you know the affects?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> If you feel and have not had a abortion, why would you want it to be allowed for another women.


It's not a question of whether or not to allow women to abort unwanted pregnancies--they have been doing so, regardless of the law, since time began. It's a question of where the procedure will take place--a regulated clinic vs a bathroom, an alley, or a Dr. Gosnell-like chamber of horrors.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Someone earlier said that the woman who was Roe put the baby girl up for adoption. Something about the wording made me think that the posting was thinking how awful that was. And I have heard pro-abortion people say that adoption is awful for the mothers. HUH!
> 
> And don't say I don't know what I'm talking about...I do.


No, you don't...Bonnie made that comment, and from reading her posts I know she favors adoption over abortion.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Find a truly regulated clinic. You know like the PP ones that do underage abortions (in states where it's illegal) for girls in prostitution rings. No legal notifications, no counseling to get out of the rings, just, "Your pimp wants it done so you can get back to work."


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, you don't...Bonnie made that comment, and from reading her posts I know she favors adoption over abortion.


The phasing was not good. It was like, "Poor thing, she had to put the baby up for adoption." And *that* is what I am saying I know about. I could explain, but it would take too long here.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Find a truly regulated clinic. You know like the PP ones that do underage abortions (in states where it's illegal) for girls in prostitution rings. No legal notifications, no counseling to get out of the rings, just, "Your pimp wants it done so you can get back to work."


Horrible...and if Roe is overturned the 'patients' in these chop shops will be your sisters, neighbors, co-workers etc.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> The phasing was not good. It was like, "Poor thing, she had to put the baby up for adoption." And *that* is what I am saying I know about. I could explain, but it would take too long here.


Ask Bonnie...she'll blow you out of the water for misinterpreting what she said.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's not a question of whether or not to allow women to abort unwanted pregnancies--they have been doing so, regardless of the law, since time began. It's a question of where the procedure will take place--a regulated clinic vs a bathroom, an alley, or a Dr. Gosnell-like chamber of horrors.[/
> 
> I don't think the issue on the table here is where an abortion should take place. I am arguing that it is legal now, but shouldn't be. Slavery was legal too at one time, but my people were abolitionists. Right is right. A law that is not based on a moral footing will not stand for long. Prohibition is an example. Abortion is not moral. There are other options than murder. Abortion will be ended.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Some of you might think this is a bit of a stretch, but I'll try to explain as best I can.

Opponents of gun control very often say that it wouldn't work because if someone wants a gun badly enough they will obtain one. If abortion were illegal, women who want one badly enough will do whatever they can to obtain it. The only result will be criminalising women and putting them in the way of dangerous practices.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> No abortions, one miscarriage at 10 weeks that I grieved, and 4 live births. I am convinced that I will meet my unborn child in heaven and that the women who abort will too unless they don't get there because they didn't repent and ask for forgiveness. Even one of the murderers next to Jesus on the cross received forgiveness. So, I guess an abortionist or a mother who aborts could receive forgiveness for this moral crime.


 :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Some of you might think this is a bit of a stretch, but I'll try to explain as best I can.
> 
> Opponents of gun control very often say that it wouldn't work because if someone wants a gun badly enough they will obtain one. If abortion were illegal, women who want one badly enough will do whatever they can to obtain it. The only result will be criminalising women and putting them in the way of dangerous practices.


It is a stretch. Gun control does not take my shotgun away from me, ( I hunt with it) it regulates how guns are bought and sold and what type of guns are available. Banning abortion makes all procedures illegal. Legalized abortion makes it safe. (granted the guy in PA was a monster and one cannot compare Planned Parenthood to him.)


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Some of you might think this is a bit of a stretch, but I'll try to explain as best I can.
> 
> Opponents of gun control very often say that it wouldn't work because if someone wants a gun badly enough they will obtain one. If abortion were illegal, women who want one badly enough will do whatever they can to obtain it. The only result will be criminalising women and putting them in the way of dangerous practices.


As opposed to what they're getting now:

Aides with no high school diplomas, never mind medical training.
Filthy conditions.
Instead of killing, then removing the baby (which *still * is murder, isn't it), mothers being given labor inducing medication, then seated on *toilet bowls* so they can hear their just born babies splashing around in it.
Overdosing of medications.
Partially removed babies left to infect the wombs.
Perforated wombs.

Yeah, we've got the good stuff alright!


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It is a stretch. Gun control does not take my shotgun away from me, it regulates how guns are bought and sold and what type of guns are available. Banning abortion makes all procedures illegal. Legalized abortion makes it safe. (granted the guy in PA was a monster and one cannot compare Planned Parenthood to him.)


And who do you think sent his patients to him? The abortion fairy?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a question of whether or not to allow women to abort unwanted pregnancies--they have been doing so, regardless of the law, since time began. It's a question of where the procedure will take place--a regulated clinic vs a bathroom, an alley, or a Dr. Gosnell-like chamber of horrors.[/
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I and others do not believe abortion is murder.


No, and despite their fervent declarations I don't believe most "pro-lifers" really think so either--else they wouldn't be so willing to forgive women who undergo the procedure while condemning true murderers like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Susan Smith and Andrea Yates manipulated the system. Women who have an abortion(s), then truly regret it, change their lifestyle so it won't happen again, certainly deserve forgiveness. And you better believe we think it's murder. Why do you think we fight it so hard. For fun?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you?



off2knit said:


> So if you never had one, how do you know the affects?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My, my. Where does your information come?



StitchDesigner said:


> Find a truly regulated clinic. You know like the PP ones that do underage abortions (in states where it's illegal) for girls in prostitution rings. No legal notifications, no counseling to get out of the rings, just, "Your pimp wants it done so you can get back to work."


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You do not have to have a miscarriage to grieve the loss of a child. I do not want to go into details. But I spent 3 months with my doctor trying to decide if I was pregnant with my 4th child. When I found out I was never pregnant. It was a big loss. That child would have been 28 now. I had difficulty getting pregnant with my other children.


I agree any lost hurts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And that man was found guilty and sent to jail. It is stretching to compare this with Planned Parenthood.

And you know it. Your 'point' is weak.



StitchDesigner said:


> As opposed to what they're getting now:
> 
> Aides with no high school diplomas, never mind medical training.
> Filthy conditions.
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, and despite their fervent declarations I don't believe most "pro-lifers" really think so either--else they wouldn't be so willing to forgive women who undergo the procedure while condemning true murderers like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates.


Never have said I would not forgive as having know three women who had them. The problem is they can not forgive themselves for doing it. 
That is a problem with what happens to women when they have it done, am sure they are not the only ones. 
I know that abortions will happen, but why make it so easy to have one, and having women regret it. It would seem to me that more thought is needed by these women, and don't see that it is being done enough.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps poor, desperate women found him because they were poor and desperate.....and paid the ultimate price.

That upsets me greatly.



StitchDesigner said:


> And who do you think sent his patients to him? The abortion fairy?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I and others do not believe abortion is murder.


 :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> And that man was found guilty and sent to jail. It is stretching to compare this with Planned Parenthood.
> 
> And you know it. Your 'point' is weak.


He isn't the only one out there doing it. Another one is being reported on, and am sure there are more.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, and despite their fervent declarations I don't believe most "pro-lifers" really think so either--else they wouldn't be so willing to forgive women who undergo the procedure while condemning true murderers like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates.


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could it be that their guilt comes from being vilified by sanctimonious others?



theyarnlady said:


> Never have said I would not forgive as having know three women who had them. The problem is they can not forgive themselves for doing it.
> That is a problem with what happens to women when they have it done, am sure they are not the only ones.
> I know that abortions will happen, but why make it so easy to have one, and having women regret it. It would seem to me that more thought is needed by these women, and don't see that it is being done enough.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are grasping at rumors and lumping all together. Not a way to win an argument.



theyarnlady said:


> He isn't the only one out there doing it. Another one is being reported on, and am sure there are more.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Some of you might think this is a bit of a stretch, but I'll try to explain as best I can.
> 
> Opponents of gun control very often say that it wouldn't work because if someone wants a gun badly enough they will obtain one. If abortion were illegal, women who want one badly enough will do whatever they can to obtain it. The only result will be criminalising women and putting them in the way of dangerous practices.


In my mind murder is the most grievous sin/crime involved. Women today have so many more options than they did before Rowe vs Wade. If you are raped you can go to the hospital and they will administer a drug to prevent pregnancy. At that point you don't know whether impregnation has occurred. Incest and rape should be prosecuted. Let the mother decide whether to give a child up for adoption or raise it.

Lots of people want things, especially illegal things like drugs, alcohol for underage drinkers, money from a bank, their So abortion should be legal for all babies.neighbor's goods. That doesn't mean it should be provided for them.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

damemary said:


> And that man was found guilty and sent to jail. It is stretching to compare this with Planned Parenthood.
> 
> And you know it. Your 'point' is weak.


Where do you think the referrals came from? like I said before: the abortion fairy?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Never have said I would not forgive as having know three women who had them. The problem is they can not forgive themselves for doing it.
> That is a problem with what happens to women when they have it done, am sure they are not the only ones.
> I know that abortions will happen, but why make it so easy to have one, and having women regret it. It would seem to me that more thought is needed by these women, and don't see that it is being done enough.


I know the effects too of the grief. My sil suffers even 30 years later. She counts off every year of how old the child would be. Working with teenager and young adults have seen it many times. Most of them blame the parents because they are the ones that made the girls get the abortion because they didn't want to be embarrassed . The blame and the guilt has over taken them. They have turned to drugs and never the same as before their abortion . Can't not find peace or forgiveness for their own actions. I don't have a link or a survey for the facts I am telling I have seen in real life.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, and despite their fervent declarations I don't believe most "pro-lifers" really think so either--else they wouldn't be so willing to forgive women who undergo the procedure while condemning true murderers like Susan Smith and Andrea Yates.


Pro-lifers can forgive women who have abortions because getting rid of their child is so hard for a loving person. You have to be pretty uncaring to not feel sympathy for someone who has made that choice. The problem seems to be here that pro-choice women forget about the children involved. Jesus teaches us to hate the sin and love the sinner. I also feel sympathy for someone so mentally ill or developmentally challenged that they murder out of desperation. But, they should pay for their crime. The children who are murdered have rights that have been violated.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You do not have to have a miscarriage to grieve the loss of a child. I do not want to go into details. But I spent 3 months with my doctor trying to decide if I was pregnant with my 4th child. When I found out I was never pregnant. It was a big loss. That child would have been 28 now. I had difficulty getting pregnant with my other children.


I am so sorry you experienced this. I am glad, however, that you did have children.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I and others do not believe abortion is murder.


God does.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I and others do not believe abortion is murder.


Therein lies the root of the problem. I view it as a lack of respect for life in general, a complete lack of humanity, and a degradation of a civilized society.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know the effects too of the grief. My sil suffers even 30 years later. She counts off every year of how old the child would be. Working with teenager and young adults have seen it many times. Most of them blame the parents because they are the ones that made the girls get the abortion because they didn't want to be embarrassed .


That your clients are overcome with grief doesn't surprise me--we all suffer negative emotions when forced to do something we don't believe is right for us. Abortion is not the solution for every unplanned pregnancy, and forcing women to undergo the procedure is as bad as forcing them to carry the fetus to term. Women need to make such decisions themselves--that's why most of us call ourselves pro-choice.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Could it be that their guilt comes from being vilified by sanctimonious others?


no you are so wrong, they all wish now that they had the babies they aborted. Nothing to do with what others say or think they should have done.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Therein lies the root of the problem. I view it as a lack of respect for life in general, a complete lack of humanity, and a degradation of a civilized society.


Yes, there's the root of the problem--folks who turn the matter of a woman's access to a surgical procedure into something far more complicated than it is.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Just outside watching the male Wren building the nest. Female watching form the tree. Love how it works for them, he builds she desides if she like it then takes all of the stick and strings out, and redoes it. Plus watching him try to make twigs fit and dropping them to the gounds as they are too big.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Could it be that their guilt comes from being vilified by sanctimonious others?


I think the guilt women feel about having an abortion, and the difficulty they have forgiving themselves come from the hardwired belief that once pregnant, a women goes through her pregnancy. This guilt can be compared to the anger and shock we feel when a child dies before its parents. It's not the narural order of things.

I think most women who have an abortion believe that it's murder. Most women don't waltz into the doctor's office, have the procedure and go skipping out with joy when it's finished. It may be the best choice they can make given whatever circumstances are driving their decision, but that doesn't wipe out that original belief.

Women also have a hardwired belief about what's best for their family and whether conditions are good for bringing a new life into the world. Hence the long history of seeking abortifacients. In the end, there is a war between the urge to go through with a pregnancy and the urge to go through it if the situation the child will be born into is acceptable.

Vilification by sactimonious others plays a part, but there are other directions vilification can come from. Consider religious belief. Consider the expectatons of the extended family and society. You're trying to reduce the problems a women faces about whether her abortion is acceptable or not to only one cause.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Then there is no such thing as right or wrong? Why have prisons then?
> 
> Yes, it is the woman's choice but so many are opting for this and it's shameful.


Of course there is a right or wrong. Prisons are for those convicted of breaking the law(s). Abortion is legal up to a certain point in the pregnancy.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Women also have a hardwired belief about what's best for their family and whether conditions are good for bringing a new life into the world. Hence the long history of seeking abortifacients. In the end, there is a war between the urge to go through with a pregnancy and the urge to go through it if the situation the child will be born into is acceptable.


Agree 100%. Throughout most of history the conditions a baby was likely to be born into played a key role in its survival. Nowadays the child of a poor mother and/or one without a male protector can survive and thrive--but it hasn't always been that way. Seems like our instincts and gut feelings haven't caught up yet with life in the 21st century.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree 100%. Throughout most of history the conditions a baby was likely to be born into played a key role in its survival. Nowadays the child of a poor mother and/or one without a male protector can survive and thrive--but it hasn't always been that way. Seems like our instincts and gut feelings haven't caught up yet with life in the 21st century.


I think our instincts are here to stay, unless they are modified by the slow, slow process of evolutuon, and they override any rational thought we may engage in. When it comes to poor women, etc., the instinct about the conditions the child will be born into still kicks in, no matter how many social sercices she can access.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> God does.


Amen Sis!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

wanted to share what I am having for supper tonight.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That your clients are overcome with grief doesn't surprise me--we all suffer negative emotions when forced to do something we don't believe is right for us. Abortion is not the solution for every unplanned pregnancy, and forcing women to undergo the procedure is as bad as forcing them to carry the fetus to term. Women need to make such decisions themselves--that's why most of us call ourselves pro-choice.


My clients?????? My family and friends that I love are not clients! How cold and heartless. They are real people not just a stupid label you just put on them. Hurting people that I cared to love even if they sinned just like Knit crazy said. Love the sinner but hate the sin. I love them no matter what they are done. That remark is so disgusting to me calling someone a client!!!!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, there's the root of the problem--folks who turn the matter of a woman's access to a surgical procedure into something far more complicated than it is.


Killing a life is not "a surgical procedure" and it's not complicated at all.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> God does.


Your god.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My clients?????? My family and friends that I love are not clients! How cold and heartless. They are real people not just a stupid label you just put on them. Hurting people that I cared to love even if they sinned just like Knit crazy said. Love the sinner but hate the sin. I love them no matter what they are done. That remark is so disgusting to me calling someone a client!!!!


Why all the angst? I took your

"working with teenager and young adults have seen it many times"

to mean that you worked with teens and young adults as a counselor.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, there's the root of the problem--folks who turn the matter of a woman's access to a surgical procedure into something far more complicated than it is.


So you're are saying an abortion should be a surgical procedure? I happen to agree that if one is done, it should be so. So why is it when the state of Mississippi decided to restrict abortion providers to a law that stated that they would have to have hospital connections and privileges PP went ape? PP doesn't care about the mothers or the babies. If they did Gosnell wouldn't have had the referrals. All they care about is getting more and more money and killing more and more babies. Read Margaret Sanger's rantings and ravings (the founder of PP) if you really want an eye-opener.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Your god.


There is only one God. People give God different names, but there is just One.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> A similar argument could be made about the death penalty:
> 
> Most babies aborted are merely unwanted, but some are developmentally challenged. So abortion should be legal for all babies.
> 
> Most death row inmates are guilty of heinous crimes worthy of death, but some death row inmates can be proven innocent. So execution should be legal for all death row inmates.


Logic. Gets in the way, doesn't it?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> You do not have the inside line on what an individual woman goes through when making such a decision. You know your mind and your emotions for now. Isn't there something in your christian religion about judge not lest ye be judged? Get out of other women's private decisions. Abortion is a difficult choice. those of us who support choice want it to be safe, legal, and infrequent.


Sometimes abortion is a difficult choice. Right now, it is so easy to get an abortion than it is often done for trivial reasons. One abortion-provider left the business because he said the most common emotion after an abortion was not regret, but relief. How many millions of abortions since Roe v. Wade? No - it's way too easy - even encouraged by some organizations. It may be legal and safe for the mother, but it's deadly for the baby and it is certainly not rare.

If the women who picket in the street for abortion rights had any thought at all of the baby, they would be fighting to at the very least make it painless for the baby. But they're not doing that. They are concerned only for the woman who has gotten pregnant and now wants it to go away, often for trivial or selfish reasons and little regard for the baby. Some organizations fought against showing the mothers a sonogram of the baby, they were so eager to increase the number of abortions and so thoughtless of the fate of the baby. Those people and organizations are not really interested at all in "rare."


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> And who do you think sent his patients to him? The abortion fairy?


Planned Parenthood received complaints about him and did nothing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That your clients are overcome with grief doesn't surprise me--we all suffer negative emotions when forced to do something we don't believe is right for us. Abortion is not the solution for every unplanned pregnancy, and forcing women to undergo the procedure is as bad as forcing them to carry the fetus to term. Women need to make such decisions themselves--that's why most of us call ourselves pro-choice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And make sure they feel guilt. They are made to suffer because of other people's belief.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, there's the root of the problem--folks who turn the matter of a woman's access to a surgical procedure into something far more complicated than it is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That is your problem.



joeysomma said:


> There is only one.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> And make sure they feel guilt. They are made to suffer because of other people's belief.


Or perhaps they come to realize the truth of what they have done and wonder why they believed the lies fed to them by the liberal left.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Therein lies the root of the problem. I view it as a lack of respect for life in general, a complete lack of humanity, and a degradation of a civilized society.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I agree


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I agree


I agree to.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

So do I.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There is only one.


Intolerance of other religions equals the arrogance of christians.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> There is only one God. People give God different names, but there is just One.


Again the arrogance of christians.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I am not arrogant I just know the One True God is Jehovah. Many little gods that don't matter. Just man made. My Savior's tomb is empty . Is yours?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am not arrogant I just know the One True God is Jehovah. Many little gods that don't matter. Just man made. My Savior's tomb is empty . Is yours?


Intolerance and arrogance. Your god does not make you right.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Your god does not make you right.


I'll share Him with you. I am not arrogant just comfortable knowing that the God of Creation sent His Son for me and you. I have no other gods before Him. He is the Only one. He loves you too. I have time now. What do you want to know about Him or being a Christian?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I'll share Him with you. I am not arrogant just comfortable knowing that the God of Creation sent His Son for me and you. I have no other gods before Him. He is the Only one. He loves you too. I have time now. What do you want to know about Him or being a Christian?


I do not share any of your religious beliefs and your willingness too share is what I consider arrogant.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not share any of your religious beliefs and your willingness too share is what I consider arrogant.


You don't want me to share a Loving Father with you? How is that arrogant?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Again the arrogance of christians.


No, the Bible.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Your god does not make you right.


My God is always right.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> No, the Bible.


 :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> My God is always right.


No.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> No.


Those who deny God will find that he turns his back on them and they will not be with him in heaven.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Those who deny God will find that he turns his back on them and they will not be with him in heaven.


More arrogance.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> More arrogance.


You are in the Christian topic and conservative site. Are you lost again?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Your god does not make you right.


Intolerance and arrogance. Just because you would like to think you are a goddess does not make you one nor does it make you right. It makes you a narcissist.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> And make sure they feel guilt. They are made to suffer because of other people's belief.


It's very complicated. It's not just a surgical procedure. It's a procedure that ends a person's life. People grieve at the loss of a limb, the loss of a breast, the loss of function of an organ. Even a miscarriage in the very early stages of pregnancy can cause grief. These women have feelings, and for many the loss of a child is a cause for mourning. They don't need anyone making them feel guilty - this is a natural reaction.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Just because you would like to think you are a goddess does not make you one nor does it make you right. It makes you a narcissist.


Now you try too hard. Just as I take your "name" as fun, so do I take mine. Unless you do consider yourself a spinoff of a child's character.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not everyone shares your beliefs. It is arrogant because you assume they will. Truly, we can see that you are a sincere believer, and we respect that. We just don't share it.



Country Bumpkins said:


> You don't want me to share a Loving Father with you? How is that arrogant?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

She's back.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In your honest opinion....but not in everyone's.



Knit crazy said:


> My God is always right.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Now you try too hard. Just as I take your "name" as fun, so do I take mine. Unless you do consider yourself a spinoff of a child's character.


Nope. It was a moniker given to me when I broke my leg years ago. What's your reason? I can venture a guess from you superior attitude.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not everyone believes in heaven either. We respect your sincerity. Please accept ours.



Knit crazy said:


> Those who deny God will find that he turns his back on them and they will not be with him in heaven.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you lost when you visit LLOL or Obamacare? This is a free country. I thought we all believe in the Constitution.



Country Bumpkins said:


> You are in the Christian topic and conservative site. Are you lost again?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please restrain yourself from calling people names. Peacegoddess is always civil.



thumper5316 said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Just because you would like to think you are a goddess does not make you one nor does it make you right. It makes you a narcissist.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You forgot to say 'in my opinion.' This is not in the realm of fact.



bonbf3 said:


> It's very complicated. It's not just a surgical procedure. It's a procedure that ends a person's life. People grieve at the loss of a limb, the loss of a breast, the loss of function of an organ. Even a miscarriage in the very early stages of pregnancy can cause grief. These women have feelings, and for many the loss of a child is a cause for mourning. They don't need anyone making them feel guilty - this is a natural reaction.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Intolerance and arrogance. Your god does not make you right.


Your continued use of the word "arrogance" shows your lack of understanding in the concept of faith for any religion. For any religion to be truly meaningful requires *faith* in it's principles. If that is not the case, then the person is only paying lip service to their religion which then makes is easier to become a hypocrite. A sincere Christian is no more arrogant than a sincere Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. - if you believe you have been given a wonderful message, you want to share that gift with others - who can choose to listen, discuss, ignore, whatever - it's their choice.

I'm grateful that God loves us so much that He has given us many paths to reach Him.

That doesn't mean that Christians or any other religious person isn't respectful of other people


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please restrain yourself from calling people names. Peacegoddess is always civil.


You forgot to say 'in my opinion.'


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not everyone shares your beliefs. It is arrogant because you assume they will. Truly, we can see that you are a sincere believer, and we respect that. We just don't share it.


That is your choice. I don't assume but pray they will. Only because I wouldn't want any one to go to hell. I try to take as many to Heaven with me as I can. If I didn't love you I wouldn't waste my time to telling you about a Savior who died for you. I am not arrogant but just like you said sincere and passionate about the Lord.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Are you lost when you visit LLOL or Obamacare? This is a free country. I thought we all believe in the Constitution.


I haven't been on Patty's LLoL. I did ask Susan if she knit on the other LOLL but got attacked so I stood up for myself with a sharky reply. Obamacare was started by a conservative. Yes we are still free for now.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes. It is my heartfelt opinion.



thumper5316 said:


> You forgot to say 'in my opinion.'


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Those who deny God will find that he turns his back on them and they will not be with him in heaven.


You seem to have forgotten God's grace and mercy. Quote the Bible to me all you like, but remember that both grace and mercy are gifts that seem to be given randomly.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Please restrain yourself from calling people names. Peacegoddess is always civil.


She may be civil, but she's full of beans, and not worth the attention she is vainly trying to get for herself.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She's back.


 :shock:

Oh - you mean YOU'RE back! :-D :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> You forgot to say 'in my opinion.' This is not in the realm of fact.


What I just said about loss is not opinion. It is fact. Google it. Research it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I din't usually post in here, but I wanted to warn you that there are some very perverse trolls who have invaded KP today and they are still at it. Very disgusting. It may be kids, but then again who's to say. Their user names are constantly changing, but you can spot the obscene names that they use. Admin is aware and working on the problem.
Just giving you a heads up in case they come in here.
Peace.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Your continued use of the word "arrogance" shows your lack of understanding in the concept of faith for any religion. For any religion to be truly meaningful requires *faith* in it's principles. If that is not the case, then the person is only paying lip service to their religion which then makes is easier to become a hypocrite. A sincere Christian is no more arrogant than a sincere Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. - if you believe you have been given a wonderful message, you want to share that gift with others - who can choose to listen, discuss, ignore, whatever - it's their choice.
> 
> I'm grateful that God loves us so much that He has given us many paths to reach Him.
> 
> That doesn't mean that Christians or any other religious person isn't respectful of other people


I agree. Jesus said, "love one another as I have loved you." Humility, forgiveness, and love are essential to the Christian faith. They are ideals that we must strive to achieve. Often not easy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Nope. It was a moniker given to me when I broke my leg years ago. What's your reason? I can venture a guess from you superior attitude.


My children gave it to me.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You seem to have forgotten God's grace and mercy. Quote the Bible to me all you like, but remember that both grace and mercy are gifts that seem to be given randomly.


Grace and mercy are gifts that seem to be given randomly? I'm not sure I know what you mean. I think grace and mercy are given to all of us, aren't they?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I din't usually post in here, but I wanted to warn you that there are some very perverse trolls who have invaded KP today and they are still at it. Very disgusting. It may be kids, but then again who's to say. Their user names are constantly changing, but you can spot the obscene names that they use. Admin is aware and working on the problem.
> Just giving you a heads up in case they come in here.
> Peace.


Thank you.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I din't usually post in here, but I wanted to warn you that there are some very perverse trolls who have invaded KP today and they are still at it. Very disgusting. It may be kids, but then again who's to say. Their user names are constantly changing, but you can spot the obscene names that they use. Admin is aware and working on the problem.
> Just giving you a heads up in case they come in here.
> Peace.


If you are so concerned, how about listing some of the names these trolls are using, and giving some hints about how they shift those names? That would show you have true concern.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

add VA Gina Splitter


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Grace and mercy are gifts that seem to be given randomly? I'm not sure I know what you mean. I think grace and mercy are given to all of us, aren't they?


No, they aren't. Sometimes these gifts are given in surprising ways. Sometimes they are withheld in surprising ways, too.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Add The Cockmaster and yarnbird to the troll list...the main board has been overrun by these wiseguys.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

And they keep changing the names as they go


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

damemary said:


> Not everyone shares your beliefs. It is arrogant because you assume they will. Truly, we can see that you are a sincere believer, and we respect that. We just don't share it.


You seem to be confused - in today's world, it would be hard not to know that Christian beliefs are not shared by everyone - the evidence is all around us. It isn't arrogant to wish that others receive the gift that is available to them - if you choose not to accept it, that is entirely up to you

IMO, arrogance is being demonstrated by the small group of mean-spirited women who can`t properly debate the merits of an issue so fall back on using their views of Christianity and Christian principles as a weapon


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

To Joeysomma re lewd posts:

Too bad someone has nothing better to do than write drivel. 

Thanks, Joeysomma.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> No, they aren't. Sometimes these gifts are given in surprising ways. Sometimes they are withheld in surprising ways, too.


I agree with Bonbf3. If you are a believer God never withholds his graces and mercy. It is Jesus' promise. God will not pass judgment on you when you die because be, the Son, died for our sin. He paid for our iniquities. I wonder if you have an example of a time this did not occur? Perhaps this is a matter of a difference between ourdefinitions of grace and mercy? If you expect this to occur in this world, I would agree that it seems sometimes that God doesn't hear us. But, he hears us. He just doesn't always give us what we ask for. He doesn't always protect us from evil in this world either. He can read our hearts. He knows if we truly have faith. You can't deceive God. He has an open heart, however, for those truly seeking him.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> More arrogance.


The arrogant deny God. Those who seek to share his love and tell others of it are not arrogant. They are doing his work. You are a free woman. You can love him, accept him and live in the glory that you are his forever. Or, you can deny him, but you will reap the pain of that decision. I grieve for every arrogant soul that stands outside the gates of heaven and says, "But, I lived good life, a moral life." Only belief in God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost will matter at that point. The Bible and Jesus taught this , but many refuse to listen.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

So I didn't listen much to the news yesterday. The late night news seemed to indicate that the pressure on the IRS is still building. Holder looked bad on TV. Didn't listen to his words, but wondered how he can recuse himself and stay in his position. Maybe it is time for a new Attorney General? 

Have to get to the yarn shop today. Need a set of dp needles. Never used them or needed any before, but I have to put an I-cord trim on a project. Hate to make the trip just for them. 

Had the worst experience on Tuesday. I had been looking and looking for exactly the pattern I wanted for a side-to-side shrug. Found one online for free. Yeah! Thought I saved it, but I guess I didn't. So I spent a lot of time searching on Tuesday. Nothing was it. So frustrating. Time lost on actual projects, and can't begin until I locate a pattern that will work. Found one that is crocheted that is nice, but I wanted a knitted one. I have matching yarn for the shell I finished (why did I order so much of that yarn?). Don't want to just put that yarn in my stash, and it will work well as a set.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> So I didn't listen much to the news yesterday. The late night news seemed to indicate that the pressure on the IRS is still building. Holder looked bad on TV. Didn't listen to his words, but wondered how he can recuse himself and stay in his position. Maybe it is time for a new Attorney General?
> 
> Have to get to the yarn shop today. Need a set of dp needles. Never used them or needed any before, but I have to put an I-cord trim on a project. Hate to make the trip just for them.
> 
> Had the worst experience on Tuesday. I had been looking and looking for exactly the pattern I wanted for a side-to-side shrug. Found one online for free. Yeah! Thought I saved it, but I guess I didn't. So I spent a lot of time searching on Tuesday. Nothing was it. So frustrating. Time lost on actual projects, and can't begin until I locate a pattern that will work. Found one that is crocheted that is nice, but I wanted a knitted one. I have matching yarn for the shell I finished (why did I order so much of that yarn?). Don't want to just put that yarn in my stash, and it will work well as a set.


Knit crazy, did you check your computer's browsing history? You might be able to spot the site you found the original pattern on. Just a thought.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just read this post by Elin on KP. Please check it out.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-170158-1.html


Thanks it was lovely, and makes one think.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I found this list on another post.
> 
> Just in regards to the troll thingy going on, they are running rampant through out the Knitting Paradise. The following are the trolls that have been identified so far, they do keep on changing their names:
> "Dickknitting
> ...


Thanks for the heads up. Couldn't find any of the names so Admin as gotten control of the problem they have caused.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> So I didn't listen much to the news yesterday. The late night news seemed to indicate that the pressure on the IRS is still building. Holder looked bad on TV. Didn't listen to his words, but wondered how he can recuse himself and stay in his position. Maybe it is time for a new Attorney General?
> 
> Have to get to the yarn shop today. Need a set of dp needles. Never used them or needed any before, but I have to put an I-cord trim on a project. Hate to make the trip just for them.
> 
> Had the worst experience on Tuesday. I had been looking and looking for exactly the pattern I wanted for a side-to-side shrug. Found one online for free. Yeah! Thought I saved it, but I guess I didn't. So I spent a lot of time searching on Tuesday. Nothing was it. So frustrating. Time lost on actual projects, and can't begin until I locate a pattern that will work. Found one that is crocheted that is nice, but I wanted a knitted one. I have matching yarn for the shell I finished (why did I order so much of that yarn?). Don't want to just put that yarn in my stash, and it will work well as a set.


Hope you have found it, and yarn extra is always good. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Going outside today and try to get some planting done. Did make it the last two days. Funny how other things pop up when you want to do something.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I agree with Bonbf3. If you are a believer God never withholds his graces and mercy. It is Jesus' promise. God will not pass judgment on you when you die because be, the Son, died for our sin. He paid for our iniquities. I wonder if you have an example of a time this did not occur? Perhaps this is a matter of a difference between ourdefinitions of grace and mercy? If you expect this to occur in this world, I would agree that it seems sometimes that God doesn't hear us. But, he hears us. He just doesn't always give us what we ask for. He doesn't always protect us from evil in this world either. He can read our hearts. He knows if we truly have faith. You can't deceive God. He has an open heart, however, for those truly seeking him.


I think the operative idea is, as you say "If you are a believer God never withholds his graces and mercy."


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Knit crazy, did you check your computer's browsing history? You might be able to spot the site you found the original pattern on. Just a thought.


Yeah, but I use my I-phone to browse sometimes, and I think it must have been there. Maddening. I tried everything, but couldn't find it. I know I didn't dream it. I can see it in my mind.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> No, they aren't. Sometimes these gifts are given in surprising ways. Sometimes they are withheld in surprising ways, too.


SeattleSoul - I'm not sure what you mean - are you referring to "bad things happening to good people" and vice versa?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

my sil sent this photo of flowers arranged to create a tapestry style rug in Brussels.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just read this post by Elin on KP. Please check it out.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-170158-1.html


thanks


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> my sil sent this photo of flowers arranged to create a tapestry style rug in Brussels.


I've seen that picture before. It is so beautiful. Don't know how they do it. :lol:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> my sil sent this photo of flowers arranged to create a tapestry style rug in Brussels.


Oh that is a master piece, unbelievable and it's all flowers. Thanks for sharing it .


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Well taking a break, Vegs. in, and herbs in. Flowers next, it is getting harder to do as I age, why didn't someone tell me this. :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh it is so peaceful here today yea, back to normal.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Yeah, but I use my I-phone to browse sometimes, and I think it must have been there. Maddening. I tried everything, but couldn't find it. I know I didn't dream it. I can see it in my mind.


On your iPhone on a web browser at the bottom of your screen is an icon that looks like an open book. Press that and you will get a list of options, one of which is 'History'. Press that and you will get a list of days and dates from which to choose. Give that a try.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Yeah, but I use my I-phone to browse sometimes, and I think it must have been there. Maddening. I tried everything, but couldn't find it. I know I didn't dream it. I can see it in my mind.


Can you remember anything in the name? or may be the person who designed it?? How about if you just google free knitting shrug pattern??


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> On your iPhone on a web browser at the bottom of your screen is an icon that looks like an open book. Press that and you will get a list of options, one of which is 'History'. Press that and you will get a list of days and dates from which to choose. Give that a try.


Oh you are good Thumper, hope she finds it. Next time I lose pattern will ask you.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks. Love it. Would guess there are more than a million plants. Wish I were there.

Was in Istanbul this year during the Tulip Festival and they had planted over 4 million tulips. Was surprised to learn that tulips originated from Turkey who gave them to the Netherlands.



west coast kitty said:


> my sil sent this photo of flowers arranged to create a tapestry style rug in Brussels.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And would you have done anything differently had you known?

When I was 60 I was shoveling my walk and I said to myself "Why should a 60 year old lady be shoveling this snow?" Thought for a moment and then said, "I'm 60 years old and can still be shoveling snow."



theyarnlady said:


> Well taking a break, Vegs. in, and herbs in. Flowers next, it is getting harder to do as I age, why didn't someone tell me this. :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And would you have done anything differently had you known?
> 
> When I was 60 I was shoveling my walk and I said to myself "Why should a 60 year old lady be shoveling this snow?" Thought for a moment and then said, "I'm 60 years old and can still be shoveling snow."


No wouldn't will do as long as I can. Still shoveling snow too. Will do till my body can not do it. But it sure isn't like what it use to be able to do in 25 mins. Now I have to take breaks. :? :shock:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think the operative idea is, as you say "If you are a believer God never withholds his graces and mercy."


Is this what you are talking about? Psalms 84: 11,12 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: The Lord gives grace and glory: No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly. O lord of hosts, How blessed is the man who trust in Thee.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> SeattleSoul - I'm not sure what you mean - are you referring to "bad things happening to good people" and vice versa?


No.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thanks. Love it. Would guess there are more than a million plants. Wish I were there.
> 
> Was in Istanbul this year during the Tulip Festival and they had planted over 4 million tulips. Was surprised to learn that tulips originated from Turkey who gave them to the Netherlands.


Show us some pics. I'd love to see them.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Well taking a break, Vegs. in, and herbs in. Flowers next, it is getting harder to do as I age, why didn't someone tell me this. :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink:


Which veggies do you grow? For me - I still get down ok, it's the getting back up that's hard


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just read this post by Elin on KP. Please check it out.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-170158-1.html


Was it the video? I enjoyed it very much. Thanks, J.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Thanks. Love it. Would guess there are more than a million plants. Wish I were there.
> 
> Was in Istanbul this year during the Tulip Festival and they had planted over 4 million tulips. Was surprised to learn that tulips originated from Turkey who gave them to the Netherlands.


Sounds like a fabulous trip. What did you like best about Istanbul and did you see other parts of Turkey? The only part of Turkey we've been to was Ephesus and that was almost 25 years ago.

That was interesting info on the tulips, would never would have guessed that tulips originated there


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Have a lovely day, friends. I'm off to my grandson's graduation from 8th grade! Two hours away.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> And would you have done anything differently had you known?
> 
> When I was 60 I was shoveling my walk and I said to myself "Why should a 60 year old lady be shoveling this snow?" Thought for a moment and then said, "I'm 60 years old and can still be shoveling snow."


The very best answer! but have to admit that I'm happy that my snow shoveling days are now very rare


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Is this what you are talking about? Psalms 84: 11,12 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: The Lord gives grace and glory: No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly. O lord of hosts, How blessed is the man who trust in Thee.


Yes. I'll flesh out my reply later when I have some more time. Gotta get going on the old "to do" list. Thanks for the quote.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Have a lovely day, friends. I'm off to my grandson's graduation from 8th grade! Two hours away.


That's a very proud day for you - have a great day


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Which veggies do you grow? For me - I still get down ok, it's the getting back up that's hard


So far only have tomatoes and peppers in want to plant zuchini, yellow squash, and beans, and corn and cucumbers, and on and on. These from seeds. Want to bet how many I will get done?
Know what you mean about down and up. Love the time neighbor lady told me her hubby was helping her in the garden. He lean against her and started fo fall back grab. her pants on the way down. So it was quit a show in the garden that day.she could always make me laugh. But now I know what it feels like.  :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I need to learn how to send photos here.

The gardens I liked and will try to replicate them next year were pansies with tulips interspersed throughout. The tulips were taller and appeared to be in a carpet of many colors. They also had tulips planted in the shapes of Arabic characters in poetry.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Show us some pics. I'd love to see them.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Definitely the people. Seeing today's news about Turkey, it is impossible to believe that that is the Turkey we visited. And I also loved their art and crafts along with the Byzantine and Ottoman historic sites. We spent a little more than a week in Istanbul (Has become one of my favorite cities) and hope to return to see Ephesus, Antalya, Marmara and do the silk road to Cappadocia. Also enjoyed attending a sufi service with the whirling dervishes. Loved the people and beautiful children and their play.



west coast kitty said:


> Sounds like a fabulous trip. What did you like best about Istanbul and did you see other parts of Turkey? The only part of Turkey we've been to was Ephesus and that was almost 25 years ago.
> 
> That was interesting info on the tulips, would never would have guessed that tulips originated there


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/castingcrowns?ref=ts&fref=ts Song by Casting Crowns. Pslams 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners nor sit in the seat of scoffers but his delight is in the Lord and in His law he meditates day and night and he will be like a tree firmly planted by the streams of water


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> https://www.facebook.com/castingcrowns?ref=ts&fref=ts Song by Casting Crowns. Pslams 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners nor sit in the seat of scoffers but his delight is in the Lord and in His law he meditates day and night and he will be like a tree firmly planted by the streams of water


I like Casting Crowns but my all time favorite is Third Day.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Love them too. Casting Crowns were in Little Rock this Feb. My gd went and loved the concert. Can you get K-Love where you live? It is a Christian radio station. It is 911 on the radio. I keep it on while I am doing my chores makes it go faster.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Love them too. Casting Crowns were in Little Rock this Feb. My gd went and loved the concert. Can you get K-Love where you live? It is a Christian radio station. It is 911 on the radio. I keep it on while I am doing my chores makes it go faster.


I listen to KTIS. It's based out of the Twin Cities where I live.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Well taking a break, Vegs. in, and herbs in. Flowers next, it is getting harder to do as I age, why didn't someone tell me this. :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink:


You are farther along than I am. Has been beautiful weather, but many other this week needed doing. Rained last night. Torn between weed g and planting. Want to plant, but with the ground softer, weeding is much easier.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are farther along than I am. Has been beautiful weather, but many other this week needed doing. Rained last night. Torn between weed g and planting. Want to plant, but with the ground softer, weeding is much easier.


Oh I know how you feel, weeds or planting.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Did any one watch the five tonight, I loved when they showed Jay Leno, and what he joke was about last night. Didn't know it had been 20 years since the Nixon Adm.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Wasn't it closer to 40 years?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Nixon was President from 1969 to 1974


Your right. But the joke was still funny. Did you get to see it.

Talking about all the things that happen in the Nixon Adm. which when listed are the same we are having today. Then said it's a good thing that isn't happening any more. (something close to that)


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> So far only have tomatoes and peppers in want to plant zuchini, yellow squash, and beans, and corn and cucumbers, and on and on. These from seeds. Want to bet how many I will get done?
> Know what you mean about down and up. Love the time neighbor lady told me her hubby was helping her in the garden. He lean against her and started fo fall back grab. her pants on the way down. So it was quit a show in the garden that day.she could always make me laugh. But now I know what it feels like.  :lol: :lol: :lol:


Did your neighbour give hubby the rest of the summer off? Reminds me of a woman I used to work with who usually wore skirts or dresses and came out of the washroom with the corner of her skirt caught up in her panty hose. Hope you enjoyed your day in the garden


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Did your neighbour give hubby the rest of the summer off? Reminds me of a woman I used to work with who usually wore skirts or dresses and came out of the washroom with the corner of her skirt caught up in her panty hose. Hope you enjoyed your day in the garden


Ha that is funny! Are you enjoying your alone time?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ha that is funny! Are you enjoying your alone time?


yes and no - the first couple of days of just "me time" was nice but missing him now. But my folks are happy that he came over to pick up a few things and he's looking forward to visiting with family and friends - so life is good.

How is your SIL doing after her surgery? Did your GS love his skateboard?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> yes and no - the first couple of days of just "me time" was nice but missing him now. But my folks are happy that he came over to pick up a few things and he's looking forward to visiting with family and friends - so life is good.
> 
> How is your SIL doing after her surgery? Did your GS love his skateboard?


She is out of the hospital. She is still hurting and tired. I haven't talked to her today. Just going to take awhile to get well. She won't be down long. Yes Matthew loves his skatebroad. He called me to tell me he loved it. :lol: savor your mini vacation.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is out of the hospital. She is still hurting and tired. I haven't talked to her today. Just going to take awhile to get well. She won't be down long. Yes Matthew loves his skatebroad. He called me to tell me he loved it. :lol: savor your mini vacation.


Prayers for a quick return to good health. She probably feels much more comfortable at home than in hospital


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Glad she is doing well

Good news about the Obama Economy. My son can't find a job, so he hangs with me. But, 12 cubic yards of mulch spread, wood split, lawn mowed and deck power washed.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Looks to be a fairly nice day here. Hope to get the rest of my garden planted. Planted some herbs, celery, and peppers yesterday. Tomatoes, onions and okra today. Have onions coming on for salads, but planting yellow onions for use this summer and storage this fall. Didn't plant potatoes this year. They didn't 't do well last year due to drought. Still have flowers to plant in pots, but that goes quickly. 

Spent time yesterday trying to find a pattern to use for a shrug. I will start something today. Also need to start a purse for my daughter. Here is the one I made for me, but she wants one in cream.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Looks to be a fairly nice day here. Hope to get the rest of my garden planted. Planted some herbs, celery, and peppers yesterday. Tomatoes, onions and okra today. Have onions coming on for salads, but planting yellow onions for use this summer and storage this fall. Didn't plant potatoes this year. They didn't 't do well last year due to drought. Still have flowers to plant in pots, but that goes quickly.
> 
> Spent time yesterday trying to find a pattern to use for a shrug. I will start something today. Also need to start a purse for my daughter. Here is the one I made for me, but she wants one in cream.


we are getting rain here so no more gardening today. Sounds like you will have a full garden. 
Did you ever find Shug pattern? Love the purse, most knitted ones have not like. But that is nice, something I would like.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Did your neighbour give hubby the rest of the summer off? Reminds me of a woman I used to work with who usually wore skirts or dresses and came out of the washroom with the corner of her skirt caught up in her panty hose. Hope you enjoyed your day in the garden


No he still had to help. Love your story, would rather be in a garden then in public, caught with your skirt up.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Glad she is doing well
> 
> Good news about the Obama Economy. My son can't find a job, so he hangs with me. But, 12 cubic yards of mulch spread, wood split, lawn mowed and deck power washed.


Seem son is not the only one not finding work. Unemployment up again.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Glad sil home hope on the mend.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> we are getting rain here so no more gardening today. Sounds like you will have a full garden.
> Did you ever find Shug pattern? Love the purse, most knitted ones have not like. But that is nice, something I would like.


I found one but will need to make some modifications. Never did find the one I lost and went through 11 pages of links to some that were close. By the way, if you get a chance click on the u-tube video on the Statue of Liberty link today under Chit Chat. It expresses so well why America is the greatest.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

That was a good video Knit crazy. Not dems or rebs just Americans. Here is another one . It is a 50 yo commerical.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=284407491660646


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Looks to be a fairly nice day here. Hope to get the rest of my garden planted. Planted some herbs, celery, and peppers yesterday. Tomatoes, onions and okra today. Have onions coming on for salads, but planting yellow onions for use this summer and storage this fall. Didn't plant potatoes this year. They didn't 't do well last year due to drought. Still have flowers to plant in pots, but that goes quickly.
> 
> Spent time yesterday trying to find a pattern to use for a shrug. I will start something today. Also need to start a purse for my daughter. Here is the one I made for me, but she wants one in cream.


Knit crazy, did you see my additional directions for checking your history on your iPhone?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Looks to be a fairly nice day here. Hope to get the rest of my garden planted. Planted some herbs, celery, and peppers yesterday. Tomatoes, onions and okra today. Have onions coming on for salads, but planting yellow onions for use this summer and storage this fall. Didn't plant potatoes this year. They didn't 't do well last year due to drought. Still have flowers to plant in pots, but that goes quickly.
> 
> Spent time yesterday trying to find a pattern to use for a shrug. I will start something today. Also need to start a purse for my daughter. Here is the one I made for me, but she wants one in cream.


nice looking purse - did you line it?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Looks to be a fairly nice day here. Hope to get the rest of my garden planted. Planted some herbs, celery, and peppers yesterday. Tomatoes, onions and okra today. Have onions coming on for salads, but planting yellow onions for use this summer and storage this fall. Didn't plant potatoes this year. They didn't 't do well last year due to drought. Still have flowers to plant in pots, but that goes quickly.
> 
> Spent time yesterday trying to find a pattern to use for a shrug. I will start something today. Also need to start a purse for my daughter. Here is the one I made for me, but she wants one in cream.


Cute purse. Is it felted?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> nice looking purse - did you line it?


Yes, I went to Joann's and got a remnant that was perfect. It was black but had a design and it was firmly woven so it doesn't stretch. My SIL bought a Vera Bradley purse this Spring. She showed me the lining, which had a built in pocket in the bottom where you can slide a piece of cardboard to stiffen the bottom, and I did that. Put a zipper in the opening. Wish I had put a pocket for my cell phone in, but I still might.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Cute purse. Is it felted?


Not felted. It is knit with Iris #18 nylon thread, which was like knitting heavy yarn. It is a little hard on the hands to knit with it because you have to keep the tension tight. I got the idea from The Sak purses. Same look and feel. It's my own pattern, but I modeled it on the leather purse I used and liked. Same shape and size. That purse had the chains on the handle too. Handles are the place that make handmade purses look good or not. Knitted the bottom, then knit in the round after picking up stitches around the bottom. If anyone wants the pattern, let me know. I will send as soon as I get to my computer. Phoning this in.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The usual participants in "Smoking and Obamacare" and "LOLL" all seem to be offline. Aren't they usually around at this time of day? I wonder what they're up to...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm with my daughter and 3 grand boys. Very disappointed with the heavy rain when we woke up. They were happy I could take them to school. I'm here for grandparents day. They have a special program, 2 of the boys are cowboys and the oldest is a sheriff.
> 
> We needed the rain. Fire danger was very high. We had a big fire less than a mile away when I had 2 children (5 and 5mo) and a husband in the hospital. I don't every want to experience another one.


Loved Grandparents day at school, so much fun to see what the rug rats were doing. You are the lucky one today. 
Heavy rains here today too. But at least have winter clothes in closet put away. Still have to do the other closet, time to get rid of all the clothes not wearing any more as not working. 
Had a fire up at the cabin one year so know what you mean. If dry all the pines go fast and fire moves right along. Our cabin is up above Adam's Friendship. I call it the hunting shack, fits perfectly with Husbands hunting. Are you still selling cabin in Canada? Has to be lovely to go up there.
It's cold here sure hope temp."s do not go any lower or will have to cover plants already in.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Not felted. It is knit with Iris #18 nylon thread, which was like knitting heavy yarn. It is a little hard on the hands to knit with it because you have to keep the tension tight. I got the idea from The Sak purses. Same look and feel. It's my own pattern, but I modeled it on the leather purse I used and liked. Same shape and size. That purse had the chains on the handle too. Handles are the place that make handmade purses look good or not. Knitted the bottom, then knit in the round after picking up stitches around the bottom. If anyone wants the pattern, let me know. I will send as soon as I get to my computer. Phoning this in.


Oh it sounds so nice and all the work you have put into it. I always wanted to make a mesh market bag, on the to do list. Well the list is getting longer.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I found one but will need to make some modifications. Never did find the one I lost and went through 11 pages of links to some that were close. By the way, if you get a chance click on the u-tube video on the Statue of Liberty link today under Chit Chat. It expresses so well why America is the greatest.


Loved it just loved it sent along to loved ones especial my Dad.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Loved it just loved it sent along to loved ones especial my Dad.


I'm a very proud Canadian, but I loved it too - and am very grateful that you're my neighbour


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm a very proud Canadian, but I loved it too - and am very grateful that you're my neighbour


And we are blessed to have Canada as our neighbor's. I love "Oh Canada".


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I like Casting Crowns but my all time favorite is Third Day.


Have you heard this song? Love Hillsong United.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-nAdVWDtmU


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm a very proud Canadian, but I loved it too - and am very grateful that you're my neighbour


We are close. In fact I have family in Canada too. My grandfather's brother settled in Alberta around the turn of the century (1902 I think). He was a sheep rancher. Married a cousin, who's parents settled even earlier. Grandpa homesteaded in Washington state around 1909 before he married and moved to Indiana. I am sorry that I never visited Alberta. Sounded like it was beautiful.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Knit crazy, did you see my additional directions for checking your history on your iPhone?


Just checked back to my original post and didn't see the instructions. I'd love to be able to recover that pattern.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks to RUKnitting. She forwarded some free patterns from www.woolandbuttons.com, and I found my missing pattern. I am so happy to be able to begin my shrug.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Just checked back to my original post and didn't see the instructions. I'd love to be able to recover that pattern.


For your convenience here they are.

On your iPhone on a web browser at the bottom of your screen is an icon that looks like an open book. Press that and you will get a list of options, one of which is 'History'. Press that and you will get a list of days and dates from which to choose.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> For your convenience here they are.
> 
> On your iPhone on a web browser at the bottom of your screen is an icon that looks like an open book. Press that and you will get a list of options, one of which is 'History'. Press that and you will get a list of days and dates from which to choose.


Thanks


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> https://www.facebook.com/castingcrowns?ref=ts&fref=ts Song by Casting Crowns. Pslams 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners nor sit in the seat of scoffers but his delight is in the Lord and in His law he meditates day and night and he will be like a tree firmly planted by the streams of water


I love this one - partly because it was often chosen by the my classmates to read during "opening exercises." We had a Bible reading (almost always a psalm), the Lord's Prayer, Pledge of Allegiance, a patriotic song. This was public school in the 1950's.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That's a very proud day for you - have a great day


Back now - it was nice. Thank you, West Coast Kitty!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Glad she is doing well
> 
> Good news about the Obama Economy. My son can't find a job, so he hangs with me. But, 12 cubic yards of mulch spread, wood split, lawn mowed and deck power washed.


He sounds like a great son. Someone should hire him!


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Just got back from the new Star Trek movie in 3D at IMAX. WOW! And I will not spoil for those who are going...but if you have a choice between flat (2D), 3D, or 3D IMAX, the picking order is IMAX, 3D in a standard theater, or flat. WOW!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Just got back from the new Star Trek movie in 3D at IMAX. WOW! And I will not spoil for those who are going...but if you have a choice between flat (2D), 3D, or 3D IMAX, the picking order is IMAX, 3D in a standard theater, or flat. WOW!


Thanks - I'd love to see it. I love GOOD sci-fi!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Just got back from the new Star Trek movie in 3D at IMAX. WOW! And I will not spoil for those who are going...but if you have a choice between flat (2D), 3D, or 3D IMAX, the picking order is IMAX, 3D in a standard theater, or flat. WOW!


DH an I are planning on going this weekend. We decided on going to an IMAX viewing. I'm really looking forward to it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> DH an I are planning on going this weekend. We decided on going to an IMAX viewing. I'm really looking forward to it.


Enjoy! Would love to read your review.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> We are close. In fact I have family in Canada too. My grandfather's brother settled in Alberta around the turn of the century (1902 I think). He was a sheep rancher. Married a cousin, who's parents settled even earlier. Grandpa homesteaded in Washington state around 1909 before he married and moved to Indiana. I am sorry that I never visited Alberta. Sounded like it was beautiful.


Maybe someday you'll get a chance to make 1 of our favourite road trips -- Alberta, west to BC , Washington, Oregon, Idaho & Montana. So far we've been to 15 of the states but are planning to visit the Canadian Maritime provinces and New England states sometime in the next couple of years - probably in the fall, we've heard so much about the beautiful fall leaves


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Last fall we did the Canadian Maritimes all the way to Labrador. Eight weeks and 6500+ miles on our car. Had a wonderful time and the Canadian ? system is wonderful. We had no reservations and would stop at the ? and they would connect us with a place to spend the night. Did all the Islands and DH became an expert at getting the car on and off the ferries easily. Our big mistake was that we left too late in the fall and many places were closed. Aug-Sept is good. Canadians are lovely people.



west coast kitty said:


> Maybe someday you'll get a chance to make 1 of our favourite road trips -- Alberta, west to BC , Washington, Oregon, Idaho & Montana. So far we've been to 15 of the states but are planning to visit the Canadian Maritime provinces and New England states sometime in the next couple of years - probably in the fall, we've heard so much about the beautiful fall leaves


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Last fall we did the Canadian Maritimes all the way to Labrador. Eight weeks and 6500+ miles on our car. Had a wonderful time and the Canadian ? system is wonderful. We had no reservations and would stop at the ? and they would connect us with a place to spend the night. Did all the Islands and DH became an expert at getting the car on and off the ferries easily. Our big mistake was that we left too late in the fall and many places were closed. Aug-Sept is good. Canadians are lovely people.


Sounds like you had a great trip - 8 weeks would give you lots of time to explore. Did you make it to Newfoundland? They have these wonderful commercials that really made us want to be there.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> We are close. In fact I have family in Canada too. My grandfather's brother settled in Alberta around the turn of the century (1902 I think). He was a sheep rancher. Married a cousin, who's parents settled even earlier. Grandpa homesteaded in Washington state around 1909 before he married and moved to Indiana. I am sorry that I never visited Alberta. Sounded like it was beautiful.


I am a direct descendent of Joseph Bonneau, one of the founding fathers of Quebec City. Years ago during one of their big anniversary celebrations all the dependents of the founders were invited for the celebration. Would loved to have been able to go but had just had a baby and was not able. I've met a few shirt tail relatives over the years on the Internet.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I am a direct descendent of Joseph Bonneau, one of the founding fathers of Quebec City. Years ago during one of their big anniversary celebrations all the dependents of the founders were invited for the celebration. Would loved to have been able to go but had just had a baby and was not able. I've met a few shirt tail relatives over the years on the Internet.


Very interesting, Thumper!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes and we loved Newfoundland. Saw some puffins off of Bonavista and very beautiful icebergs. We were lucky given the time of year. Took ferry from St Barbe to Blanc-Sablon and drove to West Point of Labrador. Because we had the return trip home we didn't want to chance driving on the unpaved road so that was our brief time in Labrador. Surprising how different it was in geography from Newfoundland. Labrador reminded me of Alaska where the roads are not contiguous. I wanted to see Churchill Falls but they are only accessible from a Labrador City entry into Labrador and we entered via the Strait of Belle Isle.



west coast kitty said:


> Sounds like you had a great trip - 8 weeks would give you lots of time to explore. Did you make it to Newfoundland? They have these wonderful commercials that really made us want to be there.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

That sounds breath taking.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lily's of the valley, forget me nots, lilac's blooming spring is here yea.
Also Wisteria blooming,after ten years. Husband cut them back after first blooms. Then last night husband pointed out many blossoms on vines. Sure hope he does not use sheares again. 

Vest coming along, now have three extra stitches. No No I am not ripping back just knit two together.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Lily's of the valley, forget me nots, lilac's blooming spring is here yea.
> Also Wisteria blooming,after ten years. Husband cut them back after first blooms. Then last night husband pointed out many blossoms on vines. Sure hope he does not use sheares again.
> 
> Vest coming along, now have three extra stitches. No No I am not ripping back just knit two together.


Hi Yarnie - how are you doing today? Your flowers sound lovely. Lilac and french lilac, rhodos, camellias, peonies, roses blooming here too. Cool and wet the last few days, but sun is back out today. It's a long weekend here - Monday is "Victoria Day"


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

DH and I just got home from seeing the new Star Trek movie. WOW!! It was really awesome. Saw it in an IMAX theatre and it was exceptional.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

It's a dark, rainy day here in Georgia. One of those lovely, lazy days where you want to read, knit, and move slowly so you don't disturb the quiet stillness. Peaceful.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> DH and I just got home from seeing the new Star Trek movie. WOW!! It was really awesome. Saw it in an IMAX theatre and it was exceptional.


 :thumbup:


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> DH and I just got home from seeing the new Star Trek movie. WOW!! It was really awesome. Saw it in an IMAX theatre and it was exceptional.


That was my review on here. WOW! You do know the bad guy is the current Sherlock Holmes?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> That was my review on here. WOW! You do know the bad guy is the current Sherlock Holmes?


Yes, I noticed it right away. I like him as an actor. He makes an excellent bad guy as well as good guy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There was a brief interlude yesterday on the so-called political topics (including one that originally was apolitical) when everyone said their say in a polite and reasonable way. All too soon, these topics reverted to using name-calling and insults. That really is unacceptable. 

Ive decided that every time one of you indulges in name-calling and insults, Ill hit that old Report Issue option and let Admin know what I think. Of course, this will probably get me kicked off KP for bothering Admin too often, but thats not important. I am sure all of you can be just as articulate without the negativity as you think you are with it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> That was my review on here. WOW! You do know the bad guy is the current Sherlock Holmes?


No way! I have to see that. We saw him once in a teeny-bopper movie - he had bleached blonde hair and an American accent. I could tell him by his gestures and kind of jerky head movements!

We love Elementary! Did you see the finale tonight? My husband and I are both so tired of these ridiculous cliff-hangers as finales. This one was a real solution, and a very interesting story. Anybody else watch this show?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> No way! I have to see that. We saw him once in a teeny-bopper movie - he had bleached blonde hair and an American accent. I could tell him by his gestures and kind of jerky head movements!
> 
> We love Elementary! Did you see the finale tonight? My husband and I are both so tired of these ridiculous cliff-hangers as finales. This one was a real solution, and a very interesting story. Anybody else watch this show?


I hate cliff hangers too Bonnie. It is too long before they come back on. I usually forget by then what has happened. The cliff hanger thing is all who shot JR's fault. :roll:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I hate cliff hangers too Bonnie. It is too long before they come back on. I usually forget by then what has happened. The cliff hanger thing is all who shot JR's fault. :roll:


That's right! I hadn't thought of that.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I hate cliff hangers too Bonnie. It is too long before they come back on. I usually forget by then what has happened. The cliff hanger thing is all who shot JR's fault. :roll:


that sure brings back memories - up til then I hadn't watched Dallas and didn't get what all the fuss was about. There was so much hype, I started watching the re-runs


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I didn't watch the new version of Dallas. Glad I didn't with Larry Hagmon dying . That would have messed it up. Liked Knots Landing too. Those were the first soap opera like series weren't they?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Going to try to post some more of my flowers but you will have to wait on me I am slow.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't watch the new version of Dallas. Glad I didn't with Larry Hagmon dying . That would have messed it up. Liked Knots Landing too. Those were the first soap opera like series weren't they?


I liked the daytime soaps. My very favorite was Days of Our Lives. I watched it every day while I ate lunch. When it went to an hour, I got fat.

It's still on - every now and then I see a summary. Same people, same problems.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't watch the new version of Dallas. Glad I didn't with Larry Hagmon dying . That would have messed it up. Liked Knots Landing too. Those were the first soap opera like series weren't they?


I saw some ads for it, but didn't watch it either. Couldn't, even if I wanted to because it was on one of the special cable stations and we figure we get enough TV with the dozen or so regular cable stations. I haven't got into any of the reality shows either


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I liked the daytime soaps. My very favorite was Days of Our Lives. I watched it every day while I ate lunch. When it went to an hour, I got fat.
> 
> It's still on - every now and then I see a summary. Same people, same problems.


Was usually working so didn't get into daytime soaps except for about 6 months when I watched General Hospital. My mom started watching a few after she retired and she was really disappointed when they started cancelling them


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Was usually working so didn't get into daytime soaps except for about 6 months when I watched General Hospital. My mom started watching a few after she retired and she was really disappointed when they started cancelling them


First ones I watched were All My Children and General Hospital. Watched them for years while my kids were in school. We had a small black and white TV in the kitchen and one in my sewing room. I didn't want to miss even one . lol Before vcr's. Arrange my whole day around them.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Going to try to post some more of my flowers but you will have to wait on me I am slow.


your flowers are beautiful; is that an ornamental grass?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> First ones I watched were All My Children and General Hospital. Watched them for years while my kids were in school. We had a small black and white TV in the kitchen and one in my sewing room. I didn't want to miss even one . lol Before vcr's. Arrange my whole day around them.


So did I. When the kids were little, watched during naptime. In school, it was easy. Then I decided to quit. But I sure did enjoy them when I was watching.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> your flowers are beautiful; is that an ornamental grass?


Yes and some roses I got cutting from somewhere. I have more pics but I don't take good pics.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> So did I. When the kids were little, watched during naptime. In school, it was easy. Then I decided to quit. But I sure did enjoy them when I was watching.


it was addictive, when I first started back to work, I tried taping GH but couldn't keep up with it so just quit. Did you have a good weekend?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for sharing your flowers. Now tomorrow I need to go out and weed.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> your flowers are beautiful; is that an ornamental grass?


CountryB, did you post pictures somewhere or are you talking about your avatar? I'd love to see your pix but don't know how to find them.
Bonnie


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Hi Yarnie - how are you doing today? Your flowers sound lovely. Lilac and french lilac, rhodos, camellias, peonies, roses blooming here too. Cool and wet the last few days, but sun is back out today. It's a long weekend here - Monday is "Victoria Day"


Happy Victoria Day, tell me about it and the meaning of it.

My peonies are not blooming yet but do have buds. Your flowers sound lovely.

Bad storm last night and didn't get newspaper's under tomatoes yesterday. We have tomatoe blight here, and rain that splash's on plants start it. The man at the garden center told us that is at leasts one thing you can do. Weather to remain bad until in to Tues. Poor people down in the plains really hit hard. Tornados and more today. We are under a slight chance here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Do not watch that much TV any more. Love PBS programs, history channel some shows, but don't keep up with them.

Use to watch Soaps too when younger, but didn't keep up with changes so lost interest in them.

Son in College use to watch soap's apparntely big thing on campus. 

Have not been to movies for such a long time. Think I may be missing something.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Do not watch that much TV any more. Love PBS programs, history channel some shows, but don't keep up with them.
> 
> Use to watch Soaps too when younger, but didn't keep up with changes so lost interest in them.
> 
> ...


Many, many years ago I used to watch All My Children. I didn't have time to watch it for almost a year and I gave up on it when I was able to watch noticed that I was able to pick up the plot with no problem. Boring!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Many, many years ago I used to watch All My Children. I didn't have time to watch it for almost a year and I gave up on it when I was able to watch noticed that I was able to pick up the plot with no problem. Boring!


I would bet if we started watching them again it would be the same going on again so would not miss a thing except new people do it. :lol: :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> CountryB, did you post pictures somewhere or are you talking about your avatar? I'd love to see your pix but don't know how to find them.
> Bonnie


I got one pic on where I said I was going to post them. Will try again later to post more. My pics are not very good. I don't wait until my camera warms up.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I got one pic on where I said I was going to post them. Will try again later to post more. My pics are not very good. I don't wait until my camera warms up.


I have the same problem! I blame the camera.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Haaha Bonnie but my dh's knows it is me. He tried to give me a lesson last night but I wasn't listening. Did I tell you about the animals next door yesterday? I was out in my flowers and my little wire hair was barking at the dog next door. He was ruining my peace so I went to put him inside. I found the dog next door chasing the pony around in circles. It was so funny. I thought the pony was loose and the dog was rounding him up . But they were just playing with each other. We used to have donkey, goats and horses in the field across from us. I miss them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Haaha Bonnie but my dh's knows it is me. He tried to give me a lesson last night but I wasn't listening. Did I tell you about the animals next door yesterday? I was out in my flowers and my little wire hair was barking at the dog next door. He was ruining my peace so I went to put him inside. I found the dog next door chasing the pony around in circles. It was so funny. I thought the pony was loose and the dog was rounding him up . But they were just playing with each other. We used to have donkey, goats and horses in the field across from us. I miss them.


I'd love to have seen that. I love animals but I've had little exposure. I'm sure I'd miss them, too if they'd been my neighbors.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

The first Prime Time soap was "Peyton Place." One of the stars was a then unknown named Mia Farrow.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> The first Prime Time soap was "Peyton Place." One of the stars was a then unknown named Mia Farrow.


You are right it was Peyton Place. Then the Fugitive.But that was a series not a soap opera.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> The first Prime Time soap was "Peyton Place." One of the stars was a then unknown named Mia Farrow.


Didn't remember that, she sure had a strange life. Wonder what happen to her.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

At a horse farm near us they have a donkey and a buffalo in same fence in field they get along quite well.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> At a horse farm near us they have a donkey and a buffalo in same fence in field they get along quite well.


Then, do you think there may be hope for Conservatives and Liberals? Naaah!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

A funny story about the pony. Two years ago we had just put the cover on our pool. I was inside and my son called me and told me to look out the window. I looked and saw the pony by my window. I went to try to take him back home withhis rope. Just as I was going around the house my boy Airedale came aroung the gate and saw the pony . The pony thru his back in the air and let out his litte heeeeehhe and took off running. He ran right into the pool and laid down. I didn't know what do do. The cover is old but didn't want to replace it. I was afraid if I called the police I would be on the news that night or world wide. Hahah I got some hay and he came out and my son took him home. Wish they would get him a fence. Only me!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Then, do you think there may be hope for Conservatives and Liberals? Naaah!


Might just be conservatives as they seem to ejoy their freedom, and not have someone tell them what they can and can't do. :roll:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Seem's God has plans for the weather today, lots of bad weather storms and tornados all over the place.

Hate when people call it mother nature, always blaming a women for what God has control of.

Plus you would think the Lib's would get on it like hot cakes, blaming women.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Might just be conservatives as they seem to ejoy their freedom, and not have someone tell them what they can and can't do. :roll:


Hmm, seem to recall a picture of six or eight little puppies being led on the leash--and the righties eagerly picking themselves among the sextet. That might be your definition of freedom, but it certainly isn't mine.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes and some roses I got cutting from somewhere. I have more pics but I don't take good pics.


why do you say that? I like them - good colours and can see the details; please post more


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I know that is right Yarnie. Wondering how my daughter made it last night they were suppose to get tornado weather. Father God is the Creator nature has no mother.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

We had a fox who would walk down the side walk last year . He was a brave fox have not seen him this year. We also have a deer and her fawn's that walk pass neighbor's house to get to corn field. Also have a blonde squirrel a couple of years back, know you will still see some with yellow tails or part of their body. Also love the Chipmunks, made friends with one last year, became quit tame. This year it is the rabbit. Talk to him in the back yard and he is not afraid of me,just sits and cleans himself while talking to him.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I am green with envy. So many of you have such wonderful wildlife right on your doorsteps.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> why do you say that? I like them - good colours and can see the details; please post more


I will later tonight. Thanks.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I am green with envy. So many of you have such wonderful wildlife right on your doorsteps.


We have millions of squirrels, deer, hawks, even had an eagle once, bunnies, fox, coyotes raccoons , birds, bees and SNAKES! But love it alll. Very blessed to live in the country.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

CB, I think I said to you once before that your beautiful country has space I can only dream about from our small islands. My parents used to visit the US after they retired and always raved about the nature there. Maybe one day...


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Happy Victoria Day, tell me about it and the meaning of it.
> 
> My peonies are not blooming yet but do have buds. Your flowers sound lovely.
> 
> Bad storm last night and didn't get newspaper's under tomatoes yesterday. We have tomatoe blight here, and rain that splash's on plants start it. The man at the garden center told us that is at leasts one thing you can do. Weather to remain bad until in to Tues. Poor people down in the plains really hit hard. Tornados and more today. We are under a slight chance here.


Sorry about the bad weather, hope your tomatoes recover. I saw the news about the tornados - so devasting. We get some bad windstorms that can bring down trees and power lines but thankfully, no tornados. Alberta gets them sometimes but they usually touch down in the country side. The worst one they had was in Edmonton in 1987 when 27 people died and hundreds injured. I was living in Calgary but my parents and other family lived in Edmonton and it took hours to find out they were ok.

Victoria Day is the 3rd Monday in May and celebrates Queen Victoria's birthday, going back to the early days of Canada's history when we were still a dominion. It's now also used to recognize the birthday of the current Queen or King of Britain since we are still members of the Commonwealth. Many parts of Canada also take that as the start to summer - putting out bedding plants, planting gardens, going camping.

Your Memorial Day holiday is in May too isn't it?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Haaha Bonnie but my dh's knows it is me. He tried to give me a lesson last night but I wasn't listening. Did I tell you about the animals next door yesterday? I was out in my flowers and my little wire hair was barking at the dog next door. He was ruining my peace so I went to put him inside. I found the dog next door chasing the pony around in circles. It was so funny. I thought the pony was loose and the dog was rounding him up . But they were just playing with each other. We used to have donkey, goats and horses in the field across from us. I miss them.


I love watching animals too. Grew up in the city so we didn't see many animals, but our dog loved to play and was so funny sometimes. Have lived mainly in the country or on acreage for more than 20 years now so get to enjoy watching so many more of God's creatures.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, seem to recall a picture of six or eight little puppies being led on the leash--and the righties eagerly picking themselves among the sextet. That might be your definition of freedom, but it certainly isn't mine.


must be bored or going to lurking does the CIA or the FBI know about this?????????????????????


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't watch the new version of Dallas. Glad I didn't with Larry Hagmon dying . That would have messed it up. Liked Knots Landing too. Those were the first soap opera like series weren't they?


I use to refer to them as nighttime soap operas. Never did get into Dallas, especially not the new one. I think most TV shows are in trouble if they have to have a cliff hanger to keep the viewers. Why continue with a so-so story line? Why not just start fresh with the new season and new stories? Beats me.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We have millions of squirrels, deer, hawks, even had an eagle once, bunnies, fox, coyotes raccoons , birds, bees and SNAKES! But love it alll. Very blessed to live in the country.


snakes here to love the grass snakes but hate the rattlers can't go up in the bluffs as they are all over the place.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I am green with envy. So many of you have such wonderful wildlife right on your doorsteps.


Well you come over for a visit sometime we would love to show you some of them. 
You must have wild life there. Seem to remember fox and deer, ect.

Do you live in the city? I would love to visit your country too, so full of history.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Hello Yarnie, Lake, Janeway, Thumper, CB, bonbf, joeysomma and all my other "old" friends. 
Checking in let you know how much I appreciate all your notes of concern during my absence. All is well. I've been very busy between the kids deciding to re-do much of our house as a Christmas gift, selling our little 7 acre farm, moving the beehives, activities of the kids, grandkids and on and on. I'm glad to be back and I promise to not cause too much trouble. 
What wonderful projects has everyone been working on? Jane I see a lovely bear claw (is that the pattern???) quilt on your avatar. How about everyone else? Much love!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Sorry about the bad weather, hope your tomatoes recover. I saw the news about the tornados - so devasting. We get some bad windstorms that can bring down trees and power lines but thankfully, no tornados. Alberta gets them sometimes but they usually touch down in the country side. The worst one they had was in Edmonton in 1987 when 27 people died and hundreds injured. I was living in Calgary but my parents and other family lived in Edmonton and it took hours to find out they were ok.
> 
> Victoria Day is the 3rd Monday in May and celebrates Queen Victoria's birthday, going back to the early days of Canada's history when we were still a dominion. It's now also used to recognize the birthday of the current Queen or King of Britain since we are still members of the Commonwealth. Many parts of Canada also take that as the start to summer - putting out bedding plants, planting gardens, going camping.
> 
> Your Memorial Day holiday is in May too isn't it?


Thank you for explaining Victoria Day . Do you have parades ect?
Do not like tornadoes either, have had a few around here, but not like down south. But this year it seem to be getting worst. I see the Iowa had one, to close for me. When living in Kansas saw one drop down aways from me and go the other way.

Yes our Memorial Day is next monday. It is not celebrated like it was meant to be. It was to honor those who died in the wars. Now it is more a day off and beginning of summer. Still some parades and laying wreaths on graves of the ones who died. But to most it is just another day off.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I am green with envy. So many of you have such wonderful wildlife right on your doorsteps.


I have 2 owl families living on my property. One in the front and one in the backyard. They are fascinating to watch. I am amazed at the wingspan of these owls.

We also have a farmer close by that has a herd of cows that get out sometimes. It's quite funny seeing them in the subdivision as they just roam freely. My neighbor has a cattle dog and lets him "go to work" when the cows are out. The dog just rounds them up and takes them home. That is quite a site.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BTW, we received the news on MOther's Day that grand daughter, Rachel, (remember the pictures from her wedding last October?) and hubby Garret will be making us GREAT grandparents in September. It's a girl! Anyone have any cute knitting patterns?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Well you come over for a visit sometime we would love to show you some of them.
> You must have wild life there. Seem to remember fox and deer, ect.
> 
> Do you live in the city? I would love to visit your country too, so full of history.


We do have wildlife, but the big predators were killed off hundreds of years ago. Wolves have just been reintroduced in parts of Scotland, and wild boar are reappearing too in the south of England I think.

I have lived in Manchester for decades but am originally from very close to the Peak District National Park in rural Derbyshire. I still say it's home. It's beautiful but not on the same scale as your country (and we only have one very shy poisonous snake here.)

I saw a television series many years ago about the natural history of the USA, and it blew me away. You have everything in one enormous country.

My lovely niece has promised to take me to New York someday, and as tempting as that sounds, I think I'd rather get on a train and see the country. It will happen one day.

If you ever do get over here, please make sure you get out of London. There are some lovely places in the UK, and I'm sure you would find it all very quaint and tiny.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hello Yarnie, Lake, Janeway, Thumper, CB, bonbf, joeysomma and all my other "old" friends.
> Checking in let you know how much I appreciate all your notes of concern during my absence. All is well. I've been very busy between the kids deciding to re-do much of our house as a Christmas gift, selling our little 7 acre farm, moving the beehives, activities of the kids, grandkids and on and on. I'm glad to be back and I promise to not cause too much trouble.
> What wonderful projects has everyone been working on? Jane I see a lovely bear claw (is that the pattern???) quilt on your avatar. How about everyone else? Much love!


Oh oh Bydie have miss you so. So glad to hear from you.Cause all the trouble you want, so glad you have come on. 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BTW, we received the news on MOther's Day that grand daughter, Rachel, (remember the pictures from her wedding last October?) and hubby Garret will be making us GREAT grandparents in September. It's a girl! Anyone have any cute knitting patterns?


Oh that is such good news. Have to get a look and see if I can find ones you may like.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh that is such good news. Have to get a look and see if I can find ones you may like.


Make sure it's EASY! ) I've missed you so, Yarnie!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Bydie said:


> Hello Yarnie, Lake, Janeway, Thumper, CB, bonbf, joeysomma and all my other "old" friends.
> Checking in let you know how much I appreciate all your notes of concern during my absence. All is well. I've been very busy between the kids deciding to re-do much of our house as a Christmas gift, selling our little 7 acre farm, moving the beehives, activities of the kids, grandkids and on and on. I'm glad to be back and I promise to not cause too much trouble.
> What wonderful projects has everyone been working on? Jane I see a lovely bear claw (is that the pattern???) quilt on your avatar. How about everyone else? Much love!


Welcome back Bydie. You have been missed. We're like one of the soap operas, things do change, but things have also remained the same.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> We do have wildlife, but the big predators were killed off hundreds of years ago. Wolves have just been reintroduced in parts of Scotland, and wild boar are reappearing too in the south of England I think.
> 
> I have lived in Manchester for decades but am originally from very close to the Peak District National Park in rural Derbyshire. I still say it's home. It's beautiful but not on the same scale as your country (and we only have one very shy poisonous snake here.)
> 
> ...


Oh I will, have seen so many parts of your country on TV to and think it would be lovely to spend time in the country side. 
Yes we are a big country, but if you come to New York, just go north to Conn. and beyond you will see some beautiful country, and many open spots.
If you come to Wisconsin you will see large and small towns . Lots of farm land, lakes and forest, ect. Do come if you can. We have very good cheeses, and Beer. Not as heavy as your ale, but some are making it now. Plus we do have fish and chips, but called french fries. We always have Friday night fish fries. Plus we love visitors so come if you can.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Make sure it's EASY! ) I've missed you so, Yarnie!


Your making me cry you don't know how much I have missed you. Gee i am so glad your o.k. Yea Bydie is back ladies.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Welcome back Bydie. You have been missed. We're like one of the soap operas, things do change, but things have also remained the same.


Thank you, Solo. I've missed you all. 
It sounds like it's been pretty calm here. I'm so glad.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Hello aw9358,
Glad to meet you. I have a lovely sil who was born in County Durham and was brought up in Warwickshire, near Coventry. I also have some dear button friends who live in Nottingham and are great bird watchers. :O)


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Byrdie, what have you been up to? Besides time with all the Grandchildren and family. 

Oh will find a good patteren for a great grandma, lucky you.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Yarnie, the thing that threw me for a loop was when the kids decided to tear apart (good tear as in re-do) the bedrooms, repaint, rip up carpeting and put down wood floors, new beds, etc. Hubby throws NOTHING out...he has every card the 6 kids have ever given him, 34 years of aviation and gun magazines, electronic cords, etc. etc. I'm still sifting through 34 years worth of "junk" in boxes. 

I did make 3 of the grands afghans for Christmas and have been using my down time to knit. 

How about you? I want to hear about everyone's projects.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Bydie, I've had to stop knitting for a while. I have either tendinitis or basal joint arthritis in my right thumb. I can crochet and have gotten back to counted cross stitch. My TV project is currently a crocheted afghan. It should be big enough for a bed cover for winter.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Yarnie, the thing that threw me for a loop was when the kids decided to tear apart (good tear as in re-do) the bedrooms, repaint, rip up carpeting and put down wood floors, new beds, etc. Hubby throws NOTHING out...he has every card the 6 kids have ever given him, 34 years of aviation and gun magazines, electronic cords, etc. etc. I'm still sifting through 34 years worth of "junk" in boxes.
> 
> I did make 3 of the grands afghans for Christmas and have been using my down time to knit.
> 
> How about you? I want to hear about everyone's projects.


Oh to funny poor hubby did they throw all his treasures out. Hope they left him something.

My advantures into knitting have been a ripp roaring good time. Mostly rip, and lot of roaring from me. 
But have a vest going and going and going. First to few sitiches Now a few more. Started lace shawl, then rip that out. Hubby seem to think when I do lace it is time for him to tell me everything I do not want to hear. Other than that, have become a gardener. I planted seeds last year had a lovely crop of weeds. This year bought plants to grow with the weeds, lovely combo. if I don't say so.
But I did get my little Red flyer wagon planted with flowers again this year. They grow nice and very few weeds, as I pick them right away, and make a bouquet of weeds and put in vase . Very lovely I must say.
:?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I agree. Get on a train or rent a car and take off and go wherever your mood takes you. Lancaster County, Pa is one of my favorites. The truly lovely places are not on the tourist itinerary. And you'll meet down to earth Americans.

We like to use London as a base and take the trains out to the hitherlands.....Bath, South and North Downs areas, etc. and of course take in a play in London. Love the beautiful gardens and cottages. Simply mesmeratic. (not a real word but you get the point).

I love quaint and tiny. There are so few places in the world anymore where you can find it.



aw9358 said:


> We do have wildlife, but the big predators were killed off hundreds of years ago. Wolves have just been reintroduced in parts of Scotland, and wild boar are reappearing too in the south of England I think.
> 
> I have lived in Manchester for decades but am originally from very close to the Peak District National Park in rural Derbyshire. I still say it's home. It's beautiful but not on the same scale as your country (and we only have one very shy poisonous snake here.)
> 
> ...


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Bydie, I've had to stop knitting for a while. I have either tendinitis or basal joint arthritis in my right thumb. I can crochet and have gotten back to counted cross stitch. My TV project is currently a crocheted afghan. It should be big enough for a bed cover for winter.


Stitch, for Mother's Day I ordered my aunt some cubics knitting needles because she fell and broke her wrist and couldn't knit which is about her only diversion. She got the needles last Thursday, tried them out and by the end of the day, she had a square finished....the first in about 3 months. She's clamoring for more sizes! She loves them and says they've made such a difference in how her hands feel. They're made by Kollage and I got them from WEBS.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I made a Baby Surprise Jacket. Picture is on KP. back to simple things like hats. Now until the second week in July most of my time will be taken by grands. running back and forth to summer camp and spending time here.


I was thinking about that for the new ggbaby, Joey. How was it? Truth be told, I'm not going to make her much in the way of knitting. So much time and work go into the projects (I'm sloooooow) and babies out grow them so quickly and spit up so much, I will probably do more sewing than knitting for her.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Stitch, for Mother's Day I ordered my aunt some cubics knitting needles because she fell and broke her wrist and couldn't knit which is about her only diversion. She got the needles last Thursday, tried them out and by the end of the day, she had a square finished....the first in about 3 months. She's clamoring for more sizes! She loves them and says they've made such a difference in how her hands feel. They're made by Kollage and I got them from WEBS.


Thanks, I'm going to try wrist support (Hand-Eze mitts) and glucosamine first. I'm already taking turmeric and it has helped with inflammation.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh to funny poor hubby did they throw all his treasures out. Hope they left him something.
> 
> My advantures into knitting have been a ripp roaring good time. Mostly rip, and lot of roaring from me.
> But have a vest going and going and going. First to few sitiches Now a few more. Started lace shawl, then rip that out. Hubby seem to think when I do lace it is time for him to tell me everything I do not want to hear. Other than that, have become a gardener. I planted seeds last year had a lovely crop of weeds. This year bought plants to grow with the weeds, lovely combo. if I don't say so.
> ...


Picture please of the red wagon. That sounds lovely! Ripping and roaring! LOL! Lace requires a lot of concentration.. Yes, Hubby goes looking for something, comes back mumbling "...used to know where that was...kids probably threw it out...can't find anything.....anymore!" We just giggle.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We have millions of squirrels, deer, hawks, even had an eagle once, bunnies, fox, coyotes raccoons , birds, bees and SNAKES! But love it alll. Very blessed to live in the country.


I live in a southern suburb of Boston and WE have these, too! When I first moved here, 13 years ago, I was walking my dog at 4:30AM (worked early!) and at the end of the street there was a coyote!!! I knew we had them, but I never thought I would see one! I also saw a Mama fox and 2 kits - that was a first for me!!! We have fishers but haven't seen them. I have only seen deer tracks in the snow, although there is a family of them that live pretty close to me, they are never around when I am. 
Now I have a bunny living under my deck - my neighbor told me that yesterday - I was so excited!

We have gorgeous hawks - I believe they are red-tailed hawks. The biggest wildlife thrill I have had while living here was this: I have a large maple tree outside of my bedroom window. I happened to look over and in it was this magnificent hawk. What a treat to be able to see him/her so close We also have hummingbirds but I haven't seen any though. That is my goal this summer - to a see a hummingbird!


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

I was reared in the city, so my bird and animal exposure as a child was limited. We (DH and me) are now very much into birding. Surprisingly enough, just outside the city limits of Pensacola has been a treat. The unusual birds I have seen here are:

Rufous-Sided Towee
Kinglets
American Redstart
Pileated Woodpecker
Swallowtail Kites
and the Grand Prize Winner

Bald Eagles!!

Who'd a thunk it?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Yarnie, the thing that threw me for a loop was when the kids decided to tear apart (good tear as in re-do) the bedrooms, repaint, rip up carpeting and put down wood floors, new beds, etc. Hubby throws NOTHING out...he has every card the 6 kids have ever given him, 34 years of aviation and gun magazines, electronic cords, etc. etc. I'm still sifting through 34 years worth of "junk" in boxes.
> 
> I did make 3 of the grands afghans for Christmas and have been using my down time to knit.
> 
> How about you? I want to hear about everyone's projects.


So when they finish fixing up the house it had to be so wonderful. Are you really selling it know???


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Well must depart have to get salad done for Supper tonight. Lobster salad.
So talk later, and Byried catch you later. Will find the pattern have in mind simple garter stitch.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hello aw9358,
> Glad to meet you. I have a lovely sil who was born in County Durham and was brought up in Warwickshire, near Coventry. I also have some dear button friends who live in Nottingham and are great bird watchers. :O)


Hello Bydie, and thank you for the welcome. It sounds as though you know lots of people here. I have been to Coventry only once, but I do remember the people were very friendly there.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Yarnie - I just saw this in today's new topics, better not let hubby read it -

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-171365-1.html


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I will, have seen so many parts of your country on TV to and think it would be lovely to spend time in the country side.
> Yes we are a big country, but if you come to New York, just go north to Conn. and beyond you will see some beautiful country, and many open spots.
> If you come to Wisconsin you will see large and small towns . Lots of farm land, lakes and forest, ect. Do come if you can. We have very good cheeses, and Beer. Not as heavy as your ale, but some are making it now. Plus we do have fish and chips, but called french fries. We always have Friday night fish fries. Plus we love visitors so come if you can.


Thank you. It sounds as thought we might need a good long visit. My 18-year-old son went to Sacramento two years ago on a school trip and loved it so much he saved up and went back last year for a fortnight. What really knocked him out was how friendly and welcoming everyone was. Everywhere he went people would just approach them with "Are you English?" and friends were made. That would definitely not happen in London, but there are friendlier places over here. Many of us just haven't got that unselfconscious spontaneity, but we are good at talking about weather.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> So when they finish fixing up the house it had to be so wonderful. Are you really selling it know???


No, we're not selling the house Yarnie. We've had a small farm about a mile away. It's about 7 acres and we bought it about 20 years ago when it was all rural area when my youngest girl had horses. There's an apartment above the barn where most of the 6 kids have lived at one time or another. Now that it's built up all around the farm and we are getting too old to take care of the property, we decided it would be a good time to sell it. But it has a lot of memories of the kids camping out there, the bees, the horses. Sigh. I'd love to sell this house and move to the country, but I don't see that happening. I'll be dead before I get it uncluttered. Been here 34 years and raised 6 kids in this house.

Have you ever heard of FLYLADY??? I've been using her tips. I need her badly. :O)


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Thank you for explaining Victoria Day . Do you have parades ect?
> Do not like tornadoes either, have had a few around here, but not like down south. But this year it seem to be getting worst. I see the Iowa had one, to close for me. When living in Kansas saw one drop down aways from me and go the other way.
> 
> Yes our Memorial Day is next monday. It is not celebrated like it was meant to be. It was to honor those who died in the wars. Now it is more a day off and beginning of summer. Still some parades and laying wreaths on graves of the ones who died. But to most it is just another day off.


The city of Victoria (capital of BC) has a parade and special events, but for most others it's just a day off. We honour those who died and vets on Remembrance Day, Nov. 11. Most communities have wreaths, ceremonies, pipers and parades that morning. Although there aren't many vets left, the Legion members(military and family members) make sure that the parades continue. It's not something any of us should take for granted


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> We do have wildlife, but the big predators were killed off hundreds of years ago. Wolves have just been reintroduced in parts of Scotland, and wild boar are reappearing too in the south of England I think.
> 
> I have lived in Manchester for decades but am originally from very close to the Peak District National Park in rural Derbyshire. I still say it's home. It's beautiful but not on the same scale as your country (and we only have one very shy poisonous snake here.)
> 
> ...


I spent about 10 days in Britain, mostly business near Ledbury so we couldn't see too much. The good thing about being Britain being a small country, is that we were able to get to Oxford, Coventry, Stratford & Warick Castle in 1 very long day. Everything was green and lovely, your history incorporated in everyday life, the people were very friendly. The one thing that disappointed me was not getting to a wool mill or finding much in the way of yarn shops (this was in 1997)


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I spent about 10 days in Britain, mostly business near Ledbury so we couldn't see too much. The good thing about being Britain being a small country, is that we were able to get to Oxford, Coventry, Stratford & Warick Castle in 1 very long day. Everything was green and lovely, your history incorporated in everyday life, the people were very friendly. The one thing that disappointed me was not getting to a wool mill or finding much in the way of yarn shops (this was in 1997)


That is an impressive itinerary for one day! It's a pity you didn't see any wool mills, but there are more further north. Yorkshire and Scotland have a few, I think.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> That is an impressive itinerary for one day! It's a pity you didn't see any wool mills, but there are more further north. Yorkshire and Scotland have a few, I think.


We only had the 1 day for sight seeing and were determined to see as much as we could, but I know we didn't do it justice. Sirdar and Wendy both have mills in Yorkshire but couldn't convince my co-workers that a wool mill would be as interesting as a castle  
Maybe another trip (wishful thinking)

The business offices were in a converted grainery just outside of Ledbury - the most serene and beautiful offices I've ever worked in and the people were very friendly and shared a lot of stories with us. The hotel was a very old building that had the floors built up to install plumbing, so I got through the door ok, but the guys had to duck or bump their heads


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Hummingbirds love flowers that are trumpet shaped and red.. I put mandevilla on my back porch and take out the bamboo sticks that come with it and let it trail down. Daily visits by humminbirds. They are amazing critters.



medusa said:


> I live in a southern suburb of Boston and WE have these, too! When I first moved here, 13 years ago, I was walking my dog at 4:30AM (worked early!) and at the end of the street there was a coyote!!! I knew we had them, but I never thought I would see one! I also saw a Mama fox and 2 kits - that was a first for me!!! We have fishers but haven't seen them. I have only seen deer tracks in the snow, although there is a family of them that live pretty close to me, they are never around when I am.
> Now I have a bunny living under my deck - my neighbor told me that yesterday - I was so excited!
> 
> We have gorgeous hawks - I believe they are red-tailed hawks. The biggest wildlife thrill I have had while living here was this: I have a large maple tree outside of my bedroom window. I happened to look over and in it was this magnificent hawk. What a treat to be able to see him/her so close We also have hummingbirds but I haven't seen any though. That is my goal this summer - to a see a hummingbird!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

He must be very precocious. LOL



joeysomma said:


> I'm not in a hurry to make another one. Since it was all knit in one piece, I thought it would be easy, WRONG. 4 months and 4 start overs. then it is to small for my granddaughter. I can put it away for a great-grand. My 9 year old grandson want me to make things for his children. I have been looking for patterns, crochet rather then knit.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BTW, we received the news on MOther's Day that grand daughter, Rachel, (remember the pictures from her wedding last October?) and hubby Garret will be making us GREAT grandparents in September. It's a girl! Anyone have any cute knitting patterns?


Congratulations! You've been gone a while - welcome back.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh oh Bydie have miss you so. So glad to hear from you.Cause all the trouble you want, so glad you have come on.
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:


Right, Bydie! We thrive on trouble!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Yarnie, the thing that threw me for a loop was when the kids decided to tear apart (good tear as in re-do) the bedrooms, repaint, rip up carpeting and put down wood floors, new beds, etc. Hubby throws NOTHING out...he has every card the 6 kids have ever given him, 34 years of aviation and gun magazines, electronic cords, etc. etc. I'm still sifting through 34 years worth of "junk" in boxes.
> 
> I did make 3 of the grands afghans for Christmas and have been using my down time to knit.
> 
> How about you? I want to hear about everyone's projects.


What a nice thing for your children to do for you! Sounds like a big job!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Bydie - this is a really sweet cross-over cardi knit in garter stitch with any worsted/aran weight yarn
http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/patterns/pie_lg.jpg
http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/downloads/patterns/PIE.pdf


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> No, we're not selling the house Yarnie. We've had a small farm about a mile away. It's about 7 acres and we bought it about 20 years ago when it was all rural area when my youngest girl had horses. There's an apartment above the barn where most of the 6 kids have lived at one time or another. Now that it's built up all around the farm and we are getting too old to take care of the property, we decided it would be a good time to sell it. But it has a lot of memories of the kids camping out there, the bees, the horses. Sigh. I'd love to sell this house and move to the country, but I don't see that happening. I'll be dead before I get it uncluttered. Been here 34 years and raised 6 kids in this house.
> 
> Have you ever heard of FLYLADY??? I've been using her tips. I need her badly. :O)


I LOVE the Flylady. I've fallen off the wagon lately but I've always noticed a difference when I actually do it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bad bad tornado in Moore Ok. pray for them ladies. Saw picture just a min ago. Car's and I mean lots of cars piled up in front of a school there they said it was an F5 , The town is gone suburb of Okalhoma City.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Been gone for the afternoon. Just heard about the torando in OK. Prayers for all of those babies and everyone involved. The bad weather is coming toward my daughter and family please pray for them.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bydie - this is a really sweet cross-over cardi knit in garter stitch with any worsted/aran weight yarn
> http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/patterns/pie_lg.jpg
> http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/downloads/patterns/PIE.pdf


Oh, Kitty. That is DARLING and right up my alley. Thank you so much.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Been gone for the afternoon. Just heard about the torando in OK. Prayers for all of those babies and everyone involved. The bad weather is coming toward my daughter and family please pray for them.


Prayers in the works for your daughter, CB. My DiL's family are in Ada OK. I think it's going past them.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Hummingbirds love flowers that are trumpet shaped and red.. I put mandevilla on my back porch and take out the bamboo sticks that come with it and let it trail down. Daily visits by humminbirds. They are amazing critters.


Yes, thank you, I know, but still no luck. Hopefully this will be the year!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Been gone for the afternoon. Just heard about the torando in OK. Prayers for all of those babies and everyone involved. The bad weather is coming toward my daughter and family please pray for them.


Praying for them CB.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bad bad tornado in Moore Ok. pray for them ladies. Saw picture just a min ago. Car's and I mean lots of cars piled up in front of a school there they said it was an F5 , The town is gone suburb of Okalhoma City.


Very bad situation there.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Been gone for the afternoon. Just heard about the torando in OK. Prayers for all of those babies and everyone involved. The bad weather is coming toward my daughter and family please pray for them.


I surely will.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

just turned on the tv - the devastation is just heartbreaking; joining in with my prayers too


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

The toranado hit an elementry school. The news man was crying as he was reporting about it. His home was blown away.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> CB, I think I said to you once before that your beautiful country has space I can only dream about from our small islands. My parents used to visit the US after they retired and always raved about the nature there. Maybe one day...


Thank you Anne. Would hope you come one day. I have been in 39 states and haven't found one that I didn't like . I have never been outside of the US but want to go to Canada, England, Ireland , Scotland and Australia. I guess they are on my bucket list but would have to take my whole family with me because I wouldn't be able to leave them that long.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hello Yarnie, Lake, Janeway, Thumper, CB, bonbf, joeysomma and all my other "old" friends.
> Checking in let you know how much I appreciate all your notes of concern during my absence. All is well. I've been very busy between the kids deciding to re-do much of our house as a Christmas gift, selling our little 7 acre farm, moving the beehives, activities of the kids, grandkids and on and on. I'm glad to be back and I promise to not cause too much trouble.
> What wonderful projects has everyone been working on? Jane I see a lovely bear claw (is that the pattern???) quilt on your avatar. How about everyone else? Much love!


Sis you know I have missed you. Thankful everything has been okay with you. We all all missed you . I feel a song coming on.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKp-ac4uQas


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

medusa said:


> I live in a southern suburb of Boston and WE have these, too! When I first moved here, 13 years ago, I was walking my dog at 4:30AM (worked early!) and at the end of the street there was a coyote!!! I knew we had them, but I never thought I would see one! I also saw a Mama fox and 2 kits - that was a first for me!!! We have fishers but haven't seen them. I have only seen deer tracks in the snow, although there is a family of them that live pretty close to me, they are never around when I am.
> Now I have a bunny living under my deck - my neighbor told me that yesterday - I was so excited!
> 
> We have gorgeous hawks - I believe they are red-tailed hawks. The biggest wildlife thrill I have had while living here was this: I have a large maple tree outside of my bedroom window. I happened to look over and in it was this magnificent hawk. What a treat to be able to see him/her so close We also have hummingbirds but I haven't seen any though. That is my goal this summer - to a see a hummingbird!


Oh sounds like you are enjoying the burbs. We have sparrow hawks too. Lots of hummers. They came around the last week of March . The come the same time every year and leave the same time. My friends have laughted at me but I have the same ones that come back every year. I know they are the same ones because the come to my back door and let me know if I haven't haven't put the feeders up. Love to watch them. Right now they are in the woods with the honeysuckle. It is just starting to bloom. Smells wonderful outside. We were walking one time out back. Our biggest Airedale always goes with us and snoops around. He came shooting out of the woods going about 40 mph . My son was shouting watch out Mama. I was looking for a snake but it was a coyote chasing my dog. I never go outback without them now.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh no she is going to start singing, turn the sound down.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I never heard of theflylady. Does she really fly???


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - I just saw this in today's new topics, better not let hubby read it -
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-171365-1.html


Thanks that was a good one kitty. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Hummingbirds love flowers that are trumpet shaped and red.. I put mandevilla on my back porch and take out the bamboo sticks that come with it and let it trail down. Daily visits by humminbirds. They are amazing critters.


It helps if you put anything red out. That is the color they are attracted to. Read one time to put a red plastic cloth under your feeder to attract them. I have alot of flowers but my birds are spoilt like my family I have to feed them. lol


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I never heard of theflylady. Does she really fly???


Nah, but she does help you organize your schedule and home cleaning. She has two main creeds. 'Baby steps' and 'you can do anything for 15 minutes'. http://flylady.net/


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh no she is going to start singing, turn the sound down.


LOL! If it was CB singing, her voice has drop and octave or two. Thank you for the sweet song, CB. I loved the pictures and am soooo glad we're friends.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thanks that was a good one kitty. :thumbup:


It was a good one wasn't it. it gave me fits and giggles.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nah, but she does help you organize your schedule and home cleaning. She has two main creeds. 'Baby steps' and 'you can do anything for 15 minutes'. http://flylady.net/


AND don't forget "Dress to Shoes". That's the one I really like. Oh and have any of you tried her purple rags??? . I gave them to both my sis and sil for their birthdays in March. They are MAGIC.....the rags, not my sises. :O) Although my sil in pretty magic. She's been doing FlyLady all her life and just didn't know it. She's the organizing queen and I keep telling her she needs to work for FLady.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nah, but she does help you organize your schedule and home cleaning. She has two main creeds. 'Baby steps' and 'you can do anything for 15 minutes'. http://flylady.net/


So you mean there are still people who do that? Wow who would have thought. Just getting up in the morning is enough work for me. I always schedule work time it just that I ran out of time before I work.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It helps if you put anything red out. That is the color they are attracted to. Read one time to put a red plastic cloth under your feeder to attract them. I have alot of flowers but my birds are spoilt like my family I have to feed them. lol


I hung out two feeders on Saturday. How long does it usually take for them to find them?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bydie - this is a really sweet cross-over cardi knit in garter stitch with any worsted/aran weight yarn
> http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/patterns/pie_lg.jpg
> http://www.berroco.com/sites/default/files/downloads/patterns/PIE.pdf


I've printed it off, Kitty. Thank you!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - I just saw this in today's new topics, better not let hubby read it -
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-171365-1.html


This is very funny.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> AND don't forget "Dress to Shoes". That's the one I really like. Oh and have any of you tried her purple rags??? . I gave them to both my sis and sil for their birthdays in March. They are MAGIC.....the rags, not my sises. :O) Although my sil in pretty magic. She's been doing FlyLady all her life and just didn't know it. She's the organizing queen and I keep telling her she needs to work for FLady.


I'll take my slip-on house shoes any day. I've not tried her purple rags. I use the dish towel from the day before for my morning shining before it goes down the clothes chute.

I draw the line at going into my sewing room and doing the fling boogie though. Not in my sewing room you don't!!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> So you mean there are still people who do that? Wow who would have thought. Just getting up in the morning is enough work for me. I always schedule work time it just that I ran out of time before I work.


Flylady's philosophy does go against the one I used most my life...If it doesn't hurt 'ya, kill 'ya, or make 'ya sick, it doesn't really need to be done. I'm trying to change, though. I really am. I'm still at baby steps when I really should be going through puberty at least!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Flylady's philosophy does go against the one I used most my life...If it doesn't hurt 'ya, kill 'ya, or make 'ya sick, it doesn't really need to be done. I'm trying to change, though. I really am. I'm still at baby steps when I really should be going through puberty at least!


Oh to funny, don't grow up it will make you funny in the head. I don't do baby steps any more. I would trip an fall on my well paddy be hinder. :roll:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

CB I love that song, and Micheal Smith he is the best singer next to you of course.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Very heart rending. 24 little ones missing at the school in Moore, OK.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I hung out two feeders on Saturday. How long does it usually take for them to find them?


Since I know around the day they come it was that afternoon. It is usually just one then 2 days later another. By June or July I will have about 40. Have to fill the feeder everyday then. I only put 1 feeder because that would be too many birds. Plus a cup of sugar a day. Buy sugar by the 25 lb bags. :-D


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh those poor children and those parents that is so very sad.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I need to get away from that other site. Thank goodness I see friendly faces here.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Please pray for my daughter the sirens are going off rightt now.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Since I know around the day they come it was that afternoon. It is usually just one then 2 days later another. By June or July I will have about 40. Have to fill the feeder everyday then. I only put 1 feeder because that would be too many birds. Plus a cup of sugar a day. Buy sugar by the 25 lb bags. :-D


Yes, the cost of sugar is going to break me between the bees and hummingbirds.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins,

What do you mean the sirens are going off. Are you near the tornado??? Please let me know. Will start praying hard.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Country Bumpkins,
> 
> What do you mean the sirens are going off. Are you near the tornado??? Please let me know. Will start praying hard.


yes she is in the path of the storms they say are going through. I have been watching weather reports all day. As we are in the slight risk area. But not like down there.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Please let us know how it goes. Oh, dear.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Yes, the cost of sugar is going to break me between the bees and hummingbirds.


But just look at how sweet you are.
The hummers always come to my bee balm, and My Joe pye weed flowers.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Love your adv, before and after


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I need to get away from that other site. Thank goodness I see friendly faces here.


Amen.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

me too, but they are getting quite now as to what has happen in OK. Could be because we are over there talking about it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

West coast K, how was your day today were you busy? How is the weather up there. 
It is so hot here, high humid too. Most of it is coming up from the plains heat I mean.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> West coast K, how was your day today were you busy? How is the weather up there.
> It is so hot here, high humid too. Most of it is coming up from the plains heat I mean.


I spent most of the day catching up on chores, felt good to get them off the list. I hope the heat and humidity doesn't create a storm for you too. Sounds like you've been working on your "weeds" - I'd like to see your wagon too.

Keep going back to tv for updates and it reminds me of how frantic I was trying to reach my family when a tornado hit Edmonton in 1997 and my heart just breaks thinking of all the people in OK, especially the kids and how terrified their parents must be.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Just a day or two if they are in the area. As long as there are red flowers to attract them. All my flowers are white except for those red ones on the porch. I love white gardens because they can be enjoyed at evening time. Our hummingbirds are frequent visitors throughout the day. Instead of bird watching I keep a record of my butterfly visitors and I keep a butterfly salad for them on my porch.



Bydie said:


> I hung out two feeders on Saturday. How long does it usually take for them to find them?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I spent most of the day catching up on chores, felt good to get them off the list. I hope the heat and humidity doesn't create a storm for you too. Sounds like you've been working on your "weeds" - I'd like to see your wagon too.
> 
> Keep going back to tv for updates and it reminds me of how frantic I was trying to reach my family when a tornado hit Edmonton in 1997 and my heart just breaks thinking of all the people in OK, especially the kids and how terrified their parents must be.


we are to get what is left from the storms down in the plains, but they are not suppose to be as bad as they have gotten. But still under sever weather watch. 
So you were busy but seems like you gotten some things done on your list. 
I would not know what to do if it was my family going through that. Those parents must be heart sick . Plus love ones who want to check on familys that can't get through because of phones being over loaded. 
Yes my weeds are doing very nicely and the rain the last few days have help them a lot.
I love my my red flyer wagon. It was old and rusty, so had hubby drill holes in bottom put in stones and then dirt and planted flowers in. Saw that people had done it with bicycle baskets, so thought I would try it with a wagon.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Just a day or two if they are in the area. As long as there are red flowers to attract them. All my flowers are white except for those red ones on the porch. I love white gardens because they can be enjoyed at evening time. Our hummingbirds are frequent visitors throughout the day. Instead of bird watching I keep a record of my butterfly visitors and I keep a butterfly salad for them on my porch.


I have a butterfly bush that the monarch catipillers grow on.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please let us know how it goes. Oh, dear.


Lukelucy my daughter is in NWAr. They were in line for the Ok tornado. I had talked to her earlier and she said it was going to be there at 9 but it went over her at 6 something. She called and said they were in the closet. She is okay but have lost their power. Trees are down and the next town alot of wind and same thing. The pastor yesterday was a visiting pastor the sermon was posting the Blood over the door post. Just like when the death Angel pasted over the Jews with Moses. I was outiside praying for her and the sermon came to mind. So I prayed the Blood of Jesus over her door post. Thank you Jesus for Your Blood as our safety. Also we sang the song It is well with my soul. So I sang that after my prayer. Thanks to all of you for praying with me. That Ok tornado was terrible. Prayers for all of them now. Plus the rest of the path of the storms. Good having friends that will pray with you. I am here for anyone that needs my prayers too. :-D


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It helps if you put anything red out. That is the color they are attracted to. Read one time to put a red plastic cloth under your feeder to attract them. I have alot of flowers but my birds are spoilt like my family I have to feed them. lol


They loved one of our shrubs, but the blooms are gone now, and so are the hummingbirds. I'll try a red plate - or a tray I have with red flowers. Hmmm......


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Flylady's philosophy does go against the one I used most my life...If it doesn't hurt 'ya, kill 'ya, or make 'ya sick, it doesn't really need to be done. I'm trying to change, though. I really am. I'm still at baby steps when I really should be going through puberty at least!


 :lol:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And they are among the most beautiful!



theyarnlady said:


> I have a butterfly bush that the monarch catipillers grow on.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lukelucy my daughter is in NWAr. They were in line for the Ok tornado. I had talked to her earlier and she said it was going to be there at 9 but it went over her at 6 something. She called and said they were in the closet. She is okay but have lost their power. Trees are down and the next town alot of wind and same thing. The pastor yesterday was a visiting pastor the sermon was posting the Blood over the door post. Just like when the death Angel pasted over the Jews with Moses. I was outiside praying for her and the sermon came to mind. So I prayed the Blood of Jesus over her door post. Thank you Jesus for Your Blood as our safety. Also we sang the song It is well with my soul. So I sang that after my prayer. Thanks to all of you for praying with me. That Ok tornado was terrible. Prayers for all of them now. Plus the rest of the path of the storms. Good having friends that will pray with you. I am here for anyone that needs my prayers too. :-D


So glad you are all safe.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I just realized that my outdoor cushions are red. Never connected that to the hummers but it probably plays a role after reading your post. Thanks. We always have them around.



Country Bumpkins said:


> It helps if you put anything red out. That is the color they are attracted to. Read one time to put a red plastic cloth under your feeder to attract them. I have alot of flowers but my birds are spoilt like my family I have to feed them. lol


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

My granddaught took a pic of a beautiful butterfly on my porch a few years ago. It was black with white stripes. Haven't seen one since. Don't have a clue what kind it was. I had buttterflies before I had hummers. Guess since we had a warm winter they were early. Mid March.I have hummingbird moths. Has anyone else? Strange looking bees things.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Bydie said:


> So glad you are all safe.


Me too, pray all remains well


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Me too, pray all remains well


Thanks!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I just realized that my outdoor cushions are red. Never connected that to the hummers but it probably plays a role after reading your post. Thanks. We always have them around.


Aha! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My granddaught took a pic of a beautiful butterfly on my porch a few years ago. It was black with white stripes. Haven't seen one since. Don't have a clue what kind it was. I had buttterflies before I had hummers. Guess since we had a warm winter they were early. Mid March.I have hummingbird moths. Has anyone else? Strange looking bees things.


I think I know what you mean. My father-in-law called them hummingbirds. We all tried to tell him, but it didn't work. Now I know why!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Aren't y'all glad I can finally copy and paste. heheh. Took me long enough.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Do any of you have mason bees? Quite a few people have brought them in because of the hive collapse problems with the regular bees. The mason bees don't look a much like regular bees but are great pollinators and don't seem to die off as easily


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21A5gNl3N4 Aren't y'all glad I can finally copy and paste. heheh. Took me long enough.


we do have these here - I thought they were just another type of hummer, also have several types of the brightly coloured one


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't think I have seen the mason bees. Have heard of them . More bumble bees. Very few honey bees now. I try not to poison . Just use soap and BT for the worms and mosquitos.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> I was reared in the city, so my bird and animal exposure as a child was limited. We (DH and me) are now very much into birding. Surprisingly enough, just outside the city limits of Pensacola has been a treat. The unusual birds I have seen here are:
> 
> Rufous-Sided Towee
> Kinglets
> ...


We don't have any of those except the woodpecker . They are huge. We like to bird watch too. :lol: My wish is that I would get some golden finch. Don't have them like everyone else.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

The damage reports coming out of Siloam Springs were most likely from a tornado. In fact, one of our storm spotters Michael Craddock got this rope tornado looking ENE from Flint Creek in southern Delaware county. You can barely see the rope tornado in the middle of the picture. --Dan Skoff
.This what our prayers were for. Can't get the picture to show up. Thank you again for helping me pray.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The damage reports coming out of Siloam Springs were most likely from a tornado. In fact, one of our storm spotters Michael Craddock got this rope tornado looking ENE from Flint Creek in southern Delaware county. You can barely see the rope tornado in the middle of the pi?cture. --Dan Skoff
> .This what our prayers were for. Can't get the picture to show up. Thank you again for helping me pray.


Is that the area your daughter lives in? Very grateful that your family is ok


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes Kitty the weatherman showed some awesome pics of the skies but they would tranfer for me.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Hope this morning is finding all those affected by the storms safe.

Prayers sent


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't have any of those except the woodpecker . They are huge. We like to bird watch too. :lol: My wish is that I would get some golden finch. Don't have them like everyone else.


I used to think the bluebird was just in stories, not a real bird. Until I moved to Georgia - they're beautiful birds. I'd love to see some in my yard, but so far my bird seed doesn't attract them.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Plant echinacea, let them go to seed and in the fall you'll have lots of the little beauties. They love the flower seeds.



Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't have any of those except the woodpecker . They are huge. We like to bird watch too. :lol: My wish is that I would get some golden finch. Don't have them like everyone else.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Plant echinacea, let them go to seed and in the fall you'll have lots of the little beauties. They love the flower seeds.



Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't have any of those except the woodpecker . They are huge. We like to bird watch too. :lol: My wish is that I would get some golden finch. Don't have them like everyone else.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Plant echinacea, let them go to seed and in the fall you'll have lots of the little beauties. They love the flower seeds.


I knew the finches liked thistle but didn't know that about coneflowers. That must be why my sister has them then. Thanks.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I knew the finches liked thistle but didn't know that about coneflowers. That must be why my sister has them then. Thanks.


Is the echinacea for the finches or the bluebirds? I wasn't sure. Either way, thanks for the advice.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bonnie bluebirds are private. They don't come to my feeders but they have a birdhouse about 30 feet away where I can see them. So mine are hear but not eating my feeder. I see them eating off the ground where there are no flowers so I think she meant the finches.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't have any of those except the woodpecker . They are huge. We like to bird watch too. :lol: My wish is that I would get some golden finch. Don't have them like everyone else.


Fill a finch feeder with Nyger thistle; keep it fresh and filled. It will bring in beautiful yellow finches. Finches are fussy and want their thistle fresh, dry and the feeder filled! I shake my feeder every time I fill it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

That may be the reason they enjoy getting right from the flower. ???



knitpresentgifts said:


> Fill a finch feeder with Nyger thistle; keep it fresh and filled. It will bring in beautiful yellow finches. Finches are fussy and want their thistle fresh, dry and the feeder filled! I shake my feeder every time I fill it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

For the finches. They love it.



bonbf3 said:


> Is the echinacea for the finches or the bluebirds? I wasn't sure. Either way, thanks for the advice.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Regarding the Mason bees. They are great pollinators, are docile and don't sting and fewer of them are needed for pollinating. About 250 of them can do the same work as 30,000 honey bees. But they don't make honey. :O( 
I think they are predominently in the West and Northwestern states. Hive collapse is a huge problem. I read recently of one apiary which had 30,000 hives (can't even imagine that...phew) last Fall and only 3,000 survived the Winter. I doubt they were all lost through hive collapse (that's usually a result of disease) but devastating just the same.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Thank you for the humming bird info. I may have to spread mine out a bit. They're within 6 feet of each other. (The feeders, that is)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bonnie bluebirds are private. They don't come to my feeders but they have a birdhouse about 30 feet away where I can see them. So mine are hear but not eating my feeder. I see them eating off the ground where there are no flowers so I think she meant the finches.


Thank you, CB! I read that they eat mealworms, so I sort of gave up on them because I didn't want to get mealworms. then a friend said they come to eat her birdseed. Maybe I'll try to get a bluebird house and put it in a secluded spot. They are so pretty. I guess I'll always think of them as special since for so long I thought they weren't real.
I'll look into the kind of house they like. Nice project!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

On the east coast due to all the chemicals we are losing our honey bees. One of my acquaintances has an orchard and finally put in some hives on his property to have his own bee pollinators. I also sometimes need to self pollinate my vegetables with a q-tip if I want any fruit. Really makes one feel more involved with the nature of the thing.

Don't think I've ever seen a Mason bee. Wonder what it is about the W and NW that they like.



Bydie said:


> Regarding the Mason bees. They are great pollinators, are docile and don't sting and fewer of them are needed for pollinating. About 250 of them can do the same work as 30,000 honey bees. But they don't make honey. :O(
> I think they are predominently in the West and Northwestern states. Hive collapse is a huge problem. I read recently of one apiary which had 30,000 hives (can't even imagine that...phew) last Fall and only 3,000 survived the Winter. I doubt they were all lost through hive collapse (that's usually a result of disease) but devastating just the same.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> On the east coast due to all the chemicals we are losing our honey bees. One of my acquaintances has an orchard and finally put in some hives on his property to have his own bee pollinators. I also sometimes need to self pollinate my vegetables with a q-tip if I want any fruit. Really makes one feel more involved with the nature of the thing.
> 
> Don't think I've ever seen a Mason bee. Wonder what it is about the W and NW that they like.


My goodness - is there anything you ladies don't do?! You know so much about so many things. I hardly ever need to google any more! Thanks for sharing all your interesting knowledge.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, CB! I read that they eat mealworms, so I sort of gave up on them because I didn't want to get mealworms. then a friend said they come to eat her birdseed. Maybe I'll try to get a bluebird house and put it in a secluded spot. They are so pretty. I guess I'll always think of them as special since for so long I thought they weren't real.
> I'll look into the kind of house they like. Nice project!


When my son built his house next door to me he had a whole flock of bluebirds. I guess when he cut the trees and moved the dirt around he exposed the worms for them. I told him he stole mine but never had that many.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

While we are talking about birds does anyone know what a small finch like bird is that is blue all over? It was a beautiful aqua. Never seen one before. Hope it wasn't just passing over.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .


Uhhhhhh - I guess I'm a little more squeamish than you are, Seattle. My grandchildren have a lizard who eats crickets. Fascinating and gross at the same time. No, I'm not really ready to commit to mealworms, but it's an interesting idea. Maybe some day. Thanks for your enouragement.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> While we are talking about birds does anyone know what a small finch like bird is that is blue all over? It was a beautiful aqua. Never seen one before. Hope it wasn't just passing over.


Sounds like a beautiful sight. Now that I'm retired, I understand why people love watching and feeding birds. They're beautiful, and their songs lift your spirit. Being retired gives us the time to enjoy them.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Look who is talking.



bonbf3 said:


> My goodness - is there anything you ladies don't do?! You know so much about so many things. I hardly ever need to google any more! Thanks for sharing all your interesting knowledge.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I've heard of people doing that before they dip them in chocolate for a sweet treat or use as an "horse de vor" as my dh says.

Where did that come from? I missed something.



SeattleSoul said:


> Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Could it be an Indigo Bunting or Northern Parula? Both about 5 inches.



Country Bumpkins said:


> While we are talking about birds does anyone know what a small finch like bird is that is blue all over? It was a beautiful aqua. Never seen one before. Hope it wasn't just passing over.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I've heard of people doing that before they dip them in chocolate for a sweet treat or use as an "horse de vor" as my dh says.
> 
> Where did that come from? I missed something.


ICK! I'd have to be VERY hungry....like STARVING and I don't think the chocolate would help one teeny tiny little bit.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Bydie said:


> Regarding the Mason bees. They are great pollinators, are docile and don't sting and fewer of them are needed for pollinating. About 250 of them can do the same work as 30,000 honey bees. But they don't make honey. :O(
> I think they are predominently in the West and Northwestern states. Hive collapse is a huge problem. I read recently of one apiary which had 30,000 hives (can't even imagine that...phew) last Fall and only 3,000 survived the Winter. I doubt they were all lost through hive collapse (that's usually a result of disease) but devastating just the same.


This area has also had a huge problem with missing or dying bees, there is now only 1 honey seller at the local farmer's market and she's not sure if she will continue. Also a lot of confusing information about the causes, ranging from herbicides/pesticides, viruses, too many cell phone & microwave towers. Whatever the cause, it hasn't affected the wasps because we see a lot more of them.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> My goodness - is there anything you ladies don't do?! You know so much about so many things. I hardly ever need to google any more! Thanks for sharing all your interesting knowledge.


I think that is one of the best things about this forum - I expected to learn more about knitting and crocheting, but I've also learned so much more about so many other topics


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Bydie said:


> ICK! I'd have to be VERY hungry....like STARVING and I don't think the chocolate would help one teeny tiny little bit.


Have to agree - I think the only way it would go down is if I didn't know what is was


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Big waste of chocolate, eh?



Bydie said:


> ICK! I'd have to be VERY hungry....like STARVING and I don't think the chocolate would help one teeny tiny little bit.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Not even with a nice cup of tea??



west coast kitty said:


> Have to agree - I think the only way it would go down is if I didn't know what is was


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Not even with a nice cup of tea??


NOPE!

All this bird talk made me go outside and check my HB feeders and my crappy ol' birdseed holder. Couldn't find the holder....it was down over the hill, I'm sure the victim of those rascally little squirrel thieves. Now I'm going to have to put on my hip boots that I used to wear to muck stalls, climb down the hill and retrieve it.

Did see a red headed woodpecker this morning while I was trying to snap my bra on. :roll:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Funny story about us and our grands. My youngest son doesn't have kids . He is always bringing our grands silly things for is brother's 3 kids. He brought some cheese flavored crickets back from a trip. We waited until all 5 grands were together to eat them. We made a video of Papa and Mimi eating the crickets with them. No one could believe we ate them. LOl I am most chickened out when I saw it in my hand it looked like a roach. It tasted like a cheeto. But I would never eat a worm with or without chocolate. No way!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Funny story about us and our grands. My youngest son doesn't have kids . He is always bringing our grands silly things for is brother's 3 kids. He brought some cheese flavored crickets back from a trip. We waited until all 5 grands were together to eat them. We made a video of Papa and Mimi eating the crickets with them. No one could believe we ate them. LOl I am most chickened out when I saw it in my hand it looked like a roach. It tasted like a cheeto. But I would never eat a worm with or without chocolate. No way!


Oh my, CB! You're a better "man" than I am Gunga Din!
That's a funny story and I bet you all really laugh every time you watch the video.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Look who is talking.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I've heard of people doing that before they dip them in chocolate for a sweet treat or use as an "horse de vor" as my dh says.
> 
> Where did that come from? I missed something.


I have no idea.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Oh my, CB! You're a better "man" than I am Gunga Din!
> That's a funny story and I bet you all really laugh every time you watch the video.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Funny story about us and our grands. My youngest son doesn't have kids . He is always bringing our grands silly things for is brother's 3 kids. He brought some cheese flavored crickets back from a trip. We waited until all 5 grands were together to eat them. We made a video of Papa and Mimi eating the crickets with them. No one could believe we ate them. LOl I am most chickened out when I saw it in my hand it looked like a roach. It tasted like a cheeto. But I would never eat a worm with or without chocolate. No way!


I can't believe it!! You are indeed gutsy - although I'm not sure how your "gut" feels after eating that! :shock: :hunf: :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> NOPE!
> 
> All this bird talk made me go outside and check my HB feeders and my crappy ol' birdseed holder. Couldn't find the holder....it was down over the hill, I'm sure the victim of those rascally little squirrel thieves. Now I'm going to have to put on my hip boots that I used to wear to muck stalls, climb down the hill and retrieve it.
> 
> Did see a red headed woodpecker this morning while I was trying to snap my bra on. :roll:


The question is, did that woodpecker see you!!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> The question is, did that woodpecker see you!!


Lets hope NOT! LOL!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul's Post:

Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .



RUKnitting said:


> I've heard of people doing that before they dip them in chocolate for a sweet treat or use as an "horse de vor" as my dh says.
> 
> Where did that come from? I missed something.


Seattle, when I first read your post, I misread worms - thought it said "women!" If you read it that way - well, I'm still laughing!
When I got to the part, "if you don't want to touch them," somehow I knew I'd gotten something wrong!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> SeattleSoul's Post:
> 
> Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .
> 
> ...


HAhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I have to "take a break" :O)


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You are brave, CB. I couldn't eat a cricket or any bug. However, I hear they are high in protein and low in fat. Good for you!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> yes she is in the path of the storms they say are going through. I have been watching weather reports all day. As we are in the slight risk area. But not like down there.


I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.

Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.
> 
> Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


I'd be scared to death to hear one of those sirens at night. I hope you don't have any more, soloweygirl.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.
> 
> Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


Happy to hear that you came thru it all safely


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'd be scared to death to hear one of those sirens at night. I hope you don't have any more, soloweygirl.


If we have to have tornadoes, I prefer to see them, before heading for my safe room. There also tornadoes that are shrouded with rain, so they can't be seen either. Scary. We have a few more seeks of "tornado season" left.

We are having T-storms all day so far. The weather people aren't calling for any tornadoes, which is good.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Happy to hear that you came thru it all safely


Thank you. Me too.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.
> 
> Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


Glad you are OK, Solo!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

my gosh boob holders worms and birds, then bugs. Internet off this morning I actual had to do womd work around here.
Such fun. Then I miss all of this. To think you had a window peeker Bydie.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you. Me too.


Sorry you had such a bad night but glad you are fine.

Do you have a storm shelter? I want to know why the house in the south do not have basement under them?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

CB yucky yucky. Had a email from my friend in Scotland her husband caught a huge spider and put it in a jar. My friend is like me can't stand to even look at them.

And cock roaches down in Fla. They are mosters yucky hate them wouldn't touch them with chocolate I would have to be near death before I would eat them, or very very drunk.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Look what I have.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Seattle, when I first read your post, I misread worms - thought it said "women!" If you read it that way - well, I'm still laughing!When I got to the part, "if you don't want to touch them," somehow I knew I'd gotten something wrong!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


 Good one :!: :thumbup: Now I've got some really strange pictures running through my mind, especially when it gets to the cornmeal part.ops:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> my gosh boob holders worms and birds, then bugs. Internet off this morning I actual had to do womd work around here.
> Such fun. Then I miss all of this. To think you had a window peeker Bydie.


glad you checked in Yarnie - I was starting to worry that hubby left you tied under the mattress! Has your weather cleared up?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Look what I have.


Wisteria????


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

the yarn lady; beautiful Wisteria!


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Beautiful flowers. I finally got my garden planted and pots in pots. Whew! Looks good, but so much work. My DH helped and is grumbling, He says he wants no garden next year, just visits to farmers markets. I must ignore him now. Tomorrow he will be more himself.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

beautiful flowers Yarnie. Do you have a couple of gnomes tucked away in there? My mom loves them - calls them zwerg or zwergen (German for dwarf). She had so many of them in in flower beds and now I have most of them


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> glad you checked in Yarnie - I was starting to worry that hubby left you tied under the mattress! Has your weather cleared up?


We did not even get rain it stay south of us. But almost took the cat and threw him outside. This cat is Norweign like me talks to much. In the middle of the night he likes to come in put his paw softly on my face and then start in with the meowing. Then he just floppys down by me and I do mean floppy's and won't shut up. We put a gate across the bedroom door so he can't get in. He has now learned to knock it down.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Beautiful flowers. I finally got my garden planted and pots in pots. Whew! Looks good, but so much work. My DH helped and is grumbling, He says he wants no garden next year, just visits to farmers markets. I must ignore him now. Tomorrow he will be more himself.


do you have veggies too?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes Wisteria, it takes ten years up here to get flowers. I had vinial gotten flowers after ten years and my sweet hubby deside that he would trim them, more like cut them to the ground. That was aboaut 6 years ago, this is the first year I have had them back. If the wild man and his electric trimmer comes out again. Guess what I will be trimming on him.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> beautiful flowers Yarnie. Do you have a couple of gnomes tucked away in there? My mom loves them - calls them zwerg or zwergen (German for dwarf). She had so many of them in in flower beds and now I have most of them


I have Norweign gnomes, they are so nice they are just like me, look for trouble and there we are.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

You are too funny!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Beautiful flowers. I finally got my garden planted and pots in pots. Whew! Looks good, but so much work. My DH helped and is grumbling, He says he wants no garden next year, just visits to farmers markets. I must ignore him now. Tomorrow he will be more himself.


Oh they all are like that when it comes to working in garden. Mine loves to plant, and then I am the one who has to weed, and feed and pick. Then the bugger goes around and shows everyone what he has planted. Got to love him, but he does have his moments, when I think what can I do to him. :roll:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Good one :!: :thumbup: Now I've got some really strange pictures running through my mind, especially when it gets to the cornmeal part.ops:


 :lol: :lol:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> We did not even get rain it stay south of us. But almost took the cat and threw him outside. This cat is Norweign like me talks to much. In the middle of the night he likes to come in put his paw softly on my face and then start in with the meowing. Then he just floppys down by me and I do mean floppy's and won't shut up. We put a gate across the bedroom door so he can't get in. He has now learned to knock it down.


cats are too smart for their own good. Ours have hubby wrapped around their paws (maybe me a little bit). Charlie (avatar) was very mannerly - not a talker, just keeps tapping on the shoulder or leg. Miss him a lot


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I have Norweign gnomes, they are so nice they are just like me, look for trouble and there we are.


did you carve them yourself?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> did you carve them yourself?


I do have Lena and Ollie carved, Ole has a Cup of kaffe in hand and Lena has the Norweign flag but gave them away.

The ones I have outside are invisiable to every one except me. We think a like so they visit me and we find lots of things to get into to cause trouble. Their my best friends. Gosh I am lonely, must get out more.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> cats are too smart for their own good. Ours have hubby wrapped around their paws (maybe me a little bit). Charlie (avatar) was very mannerly - not a talker, just keeps tapping on the shoulder or leg. Miss him a lot


I would too, if I didn't have Wild Willie would miss him. But he is a hand full at times.

Sorry about your Charlie, have you found another one to take up where Charlie left off?

I had a German Shepard,named Bear and when I had to put him down, said would not have another dog as it breaks ones heart to see them go. But neighbor Lab had ten puppies. He and husband keep showing me the puppies I know they want me to take one. Just not sure if I want to .


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes Wisteria, it takes ten years up here to get flowers. I had vinial gotten flowers after ten years and my sweet hubby deside that he would trim them, more like cut them to the ground. That was aboaut 6 years ago, this is the first year I have had them back. If the wild man and his electric trimmer comes out again. Guess what I will be trimming on him.


What is it about men and chopping things down? My old man hacks at anything he can. His pruning skills make my friend (a professional gardener) weep, so she was very surprised when I let him cut my hair. I could only say that I can see the roses, but my hair is very short and mirrors are to be avoided.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> do you have veggies too?


Oh my yes. Tomatoes (slicers, Roma, and cherry), sweet bell peppers, red bell peppers, mild and hot banana peppers, jalapeños, okra, peas, green beans, onions, squash (winter. Crookneck, zucchini), lettuce, radishes, carrots , turnips, celery cucumbers, beets, garlic, horseradish, cauliflower, and herbs. No cabbage this year because I ran out of room. Oh well. It's cheap , I'll just buy it. How about you? Do you garden?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> glad you checked in Yarnie - I was starting to worry that hubby left you tied under the mattress! Has your weather cleared up?


Lol!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I do have Lena and Ollie carved, Ole has a Cup of kaffe in hand and Lena has the Norweign flag but gave them away.
> 
> The ones I have outside are invisiable to every one except me. We think a like so they visit me and we find lots of things to get into to cause trouble. Their my best friends. Gosh I am lonely, must get out more.


You always brighten my day, Yarnlady!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> What is it about men and chopping things down? My old man hacks at anything he can. His pruning skills make my friend (a professional gardener) weep, so she was very surprised when I let him cut my hair. I could only say that I can see the roses, but my hair is very short and mirrors are to be avoided.


my hubby's gardening theory....if it's green, mow it. if you can't reach it with the mower, dump roundup on it.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> my hubby's gardening theory....if it's green, mow it. if you can't reach it with the mower, dump roundup on it.


i don't think I'll be letting him do my hair! you area brave soul.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

My husband's the same way! He loves to prune. Just when it's all looking pretty and lush - LOP!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I am laughing my guts out just visualizing using "some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them"

I didn't know how worms got into the discussion. I think I missed something along the way.

I'm still laughing just to think of women vs worms.



bonbf3 said:


> SeattleSoul's Post:Worms aren't all that bad to handle. You can use some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them. My dad used to raise his own angle worms to take fishing, and would take what he needed out of their dirt box and put them in cornmeal for a couple of days before he used them, and let them feed on that to clear the dirt out of them .
> 
> Seattle, when I first read your post, I misread worms - thought it said "women!" If you read it that way - well, I'm still laughing!
> When I got to the part, "if you don't want to touch them," somehow I knew I'd gotten something wrong!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Bydie said:


> i don't think I'll be letting him do my hair! you area brave soul.


Not brave exactly - I'm too mean to spend £35. And it makes me laugh when I see the havoc he wreaked. He was mortified, which makes it even better, so I might get him to pay for the next one. There's only a couple of weeks between a good and a bad haircut anyway.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Glad that you are safe. Prayer for those who weren't so fortunate. Is a safe room anything like the old bomb shelters if anyone remembers those. I imagine it is under the ground. What about air?

I think if I heard of an approaching tornado with good warning I'd get in my car and drive as fast as I could as far as it would take me. And I'd be sure to keep a full tank of gas. And turn off the gas in the house before leaving.



soloweygirl said:


> If we have to have tornadoes, I prefer to see them, before heading for my safe room. There also tornadoes that are shrouded with rain, so they can't be seen either. Scary. We have a few more seeks of "tornado season" left.
> 
> We are having T-storms all day so far. The weather people aren't calling for any tornadoes, which is good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I am laughing my guts out just visualizing using "some soft tongs if you don't want to touch them"
> 
> I didn't know how worms got into the discussion. I think I missed something along the way.
> 
> I'm still laughing just to think of women vs worms.


Seattle did us both a favor - I'm laughing, too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Not brave exactly - I'm too mean to spend £35. And it makes me laugh when I see the havoc he wreaked. He was mortified, which makes it even better, so I might get him to pay for the next one. There's only a couple of weeks between a good and a bad haircut anyway.


You have a great outlook, Anne!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> My husband's the same way! He loves to prune. Just when it's all looking pretty and lush - LOP!


My husband started cutting back my lilac a few weeks ago just as the darned thing is getting ready to bloom!! Give them a gardening tool and they turn it into an instrument of destruction. What's with that?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Could it be an Indigo Bunting or Northern Parula? Both about 5 inches.


Maybe the Indigo Bunting.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.
> 
> Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


So thankful you are ok!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm south west of Tulsa, OK and Sunday was the bad day for us. We have sirens most of the night and T-storms. We had one tornado touch down in the NW part of our county before venturing off to the NE. The debris wasn't too bad here. We were extremely lucky.
> 
> Yesterday's tornado was enormous - they are calling it an F4. I'm still waiting to hear from some friends in the area.


I, too, am glad that you are ok. I will pray that your friends call you soon and that every will be fine with them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> My husband started cutting back my lilac a few weeks ago just as the darned thing is getting ready to bloom!! Give them a gardening tool and they turn it into an instrument of destruction. What's with that?


Maybe it's because the no longer hunt for food. The pruners are their modified spears.?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Look what I have.


Soooo beautiful. I think it helped it to cut it back.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Maybe it's because the no longer hunt for food. The pruners are their modified spears.?


Lol. Man vs. shrub.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Maybe it's because the no longer hunt for food. The pruners are their modified spears.?


Lol. Man vs. shrub.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> What is it about men and chopping things down? My old man hacks at anything he can. His pruning skills make my friend (a professional gardener) weep, so she was very surprised when I let him cut my hair. I could only say that I can see the roses, but my hair is very short and mirrors are to be avoided.


Lol funny. When the electicuted hair was in style I would roll my hair and then Dh would put on the perm solution. He did a pretty good job but he hated it. lol Now I am back to straight.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Maybe it's because the no longer hunt for food. The pruners are their modified spears.?


Hahahaaaaaaaaaa! I think you're on to something there, Bonnie. That's darn near Freudian!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I would too, if I didn't have Wild Willie would miss him. But he is a hand full at times.
> 
> Sorry about your Charlie, have you found another one to take up where Charlie left off?
> 
> I had a German Shepard,named Bear and when I had to put him down, said would not have another dog as it breaks ones heart to see them go. But neighbor Lab had ten puppies. He and husband keep showing me the puppies I know they want me to take one. Just not sure if I want to .


We had Charlie for 18 years, he was special. There were feral kittens on the acreage when we moved here in 2000 - we trapped and neutered them and brought them back here. We've lost a few over the years, 3 are still very evasive, a couple can be petted a little and 2 of them have become pets. Winky sounds like your Willie - very vocal and definitely a handful, but she is hubby's favourite. Then there is Hugo, who showed up hurt and badly abused 12 years ago and he is ok with us but still hides if anyone else comes to the house.

Those pups sure sound tempting - you'll know if and when you're ready. We love dogs too, but haven't had one for a long time - always away from home too much and don't feel right to leaving a dog alone


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Oh my yes. Tomatoes (slicers, Roma, and cherry), sweet bell peppers, red bell peppers, mild and hot banana peppers, jalapeños, okra, peas, green beans, onions, squash (winter. Crookneck, zucchini), lettuce, radishes, carrots , turnips, celery cucumbers, beets, garlic, horseradish, cauliflower, and herbs. No cabbage this year because I ran out of room. Oh well. It's cheap , I'll just buy it. How about you? Do you garden?


It's ironic that I had a huge veggie garden in the Alberta foothills with not much more than 92 frost free days a year and just a few pots, hangers, perennials, shrubs in this valley's gardening paradise. I started clearing a spot and building up the soil when we moved here, but couldn't keep up with it after starting my business. At the time hubby traveled often so also had to keep up the house and large yard. I do have cherry and tumbler tomatoes, mini cucumbers and herbs in hanging planters


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> It's ironic that I had a huge veggie garden in the Alberta foothills with not much more than 92 frost free days a year and just a few pots, hangers, perennials, shrubs in this valley's gardening paradise. I started clearing a spot and building up the soil when we moved here, but couldn't keep up with it after starting my business. At the time hubby traveled often so also had to keep up the house and large yard. I do have cherry and tumbler tomatoes, mini cucumbers and herbs in hanging planters


It sounds heavenly, Kitty!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> We had Charlie for 18 years, he was special. There were feral kittens on the acreage when we moved here in 2000 - we trapped and neutered them and brought them back here. We've lost a few over the years, 3 are still very evasive, a couple can be petted a little and 2 of them have become pets. Winky sounds like your Willie - very vocal and definitely a handful, but she is hubby's favourite. Then there is Hugo, who showed up hurt and badly abused 12 years ago and he is ok with us but still hides if anyone else comes to the house.
> 
> Those pups sure sound tempting - you'll know if and when you're ready. We love dogs too, but haven't had one for a long time - always away from home too much and don't feel right to leaving a dog alone


Know what you mean, but have always had dogs most of my life, in fact my first word as a baby was guts, we had a dog named Guss, at least that is what mom told me. I have stood off so far, but one little yellow one lick my hand, and I do love puppy breath.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> It's ironic that I had a huge veggie garden in the Alberta foothills with not much more than 92 frost free days a year and just a few pots, hangers, perennials, shrubs in this valley's gardening paradise. I started clearing a spot and building up the soil when we moved here, but couldn't keep up with it after starting my business. At the time hubby traveled often so also had to keep up the house and large yard. I do have cherry and tumbler tomatoes, mini cucumbers and herbs in hanging planters


I think gardening is good for the soul - nurturing living things is life affirmative. But, when all the produce starts coming in, sometimes I groan. I know I should think about cutting back though.

I dehydrate my herbs and have enough for myself, my children, nieces, and SIL. Years ago, I bought a food dehydrator, but didn't use it like I thought I would drying fruit. I now use it for my herbs. My daughter gave me a herb cutter a couple of years ago a that I use to chop up the herbs when they are dry. It works very well. Simple thing, but effective.

The veggies I use by canning or freezing. My favorite thing to do, however, is making pickles and relishes. I put up banana pepper rings, mixed vegetable pickles, chow chow, etc. Every year I grow something new (to me) in the garden. Sometimes I don't plant something that I liked growing the year before. I didn't plant brussels sprouts this year, but I still have some in the freezer. Didn't plant potatoes either. They didn't do well because we suffered a drought. It is a lot of work though - planting, weeding (DH's job), picking and preserving. The payoff is the $$ you save at the grocery and the closure you feel when the jars are put on the shelf.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I know what you mean. Sometimes it is overwhelming when everything comes in all at once. I am glad I found out you can freeze tomatoes whole .


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Know what you mean, but have always had dogs most of my life, in fact my first word as a baby was guts, we had a dog named Guss, at least that is what mom told me. I have stood off so far, but one little yellow one lick my hand, and I do love puppy breath.


sounds like the time for a new puppy might be getting closer; a new little yellow baby might be just right. know what you mean about puppy breath


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Since dh rarely eats bread anymore, I don't make jam. I still make a few jars of pickled coleslaw and pickled beets. Also have lots of blackberries so I freeze them on cookie sheets and then into plastic containers


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Lol. Man vs. shrub.


As long as we're on this subject, I'll give you my sad story for today.

Today a tree company came. We had a 35-year old Kwanzan cherry tree - beautiful old tree - that had some dead branches. We knew it didn't have many years left, and yet this spring it bloomed and bloomed. Gorgeous pink blossoms - prettiest sight in our yard. On windy days, they fell like snow - and still the tree was covered with them.

They were supposed to trim the dead branches away.

They had told my husband they'd be here sometime in the next two weeks and would call first. They didn't call. I was at the computer and heard chain saws. I went out and saw four men mutilating the tree. If I'd known they were coming, I'd have been out there making sure they took off branches in a balanced way to maintain some symmetry. They just hacked. By the time I saw it, it was so grotesque that we just told them to take it all down. That sweet tree gave us so much joy. We'd taken yearly pictures by it, our kids and grandkids had climbed it.

Just brought this up because we were talking about husbands and pruning. And - of course - it was my husband who arranged for the tree company to come. I didn't hurt him too much, and I expect he'll be able to walk on his own by late tomorrow.

I'm almost over it. He did tell them to leave the little sucker-branches, and one is about 4 1/2 feet high and looks healthy. It's a little bit of hope as I look out my front door.

(This is so petty compare to what's happened in Oklahoma. This is a sentimental sad - but not a tragedy. In a strange way it made me think - actually in the middle of crying over it - if losing that tree made me cry, how impossible to even imagine what those families are going through. So I apologize to anyone who has been touched by the tornadoes and want to say that I would never compare losing a tree to losing a precious beloved person. This is just a little story that was along the lines of our conversation. Your pain has to be unbearable and you are in my prayers.)


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> As long as we're on this subject, I'll give you my sad story for today.
> 
> Today a tree company came. We had a 35-year old Kwanzan cherry tree - beautiful old tree - that had some dead branches. We knew it didn't have many years left, and yet this spring it bloomed and bloomed. Gorgeous pink blossoms - prettiest sight in our yard. On windy days, they fell like snow - and still the tree was covered with them.
> 
> ...


Oh I understand. We lost on of our oak trees 2 months ago. It tore me up it was over 100years old. The drought had gotten it last year but I was trying to give it a chance to make a comeback. My son went ahead and cut it down . So sorry for your lost of tree too. I know we have to think it couldn't be anything like the loss in OK.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> As long as we're on this subject, I'll give you my sad story for today.
> 
> Today a tree company came. We had a 35-year old Kwanzan cherry tree - beautiful old tree - that had some dead branches. We knew it didn't have many years left, and yet this spring it bloomed and bloomed. Gorgeous pink blossoms - prettiest sight in our yard. On windy days, they fell like snow - and still the tree was covered with them.
> 
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh I understand. We lost on of our oak trees 2 months ago. It tore me up it was over 100years old. The drought had gotten it last year but I was trying to give it a chance to make a comeback. My son went ahead and cut it down . So sorry for your lost of tree too. I know we have to think it couldn't be anything like the loss in OK.


Thanks, CB. That's very kind and understanding of you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

double post


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks, Yarnie. You are always kind and always make me feel better, even if I already feel good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hahahaaaaaaaaaa! I think you're on to something there, Bonnie. That's darn near Freudian!


Ouch!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Good one :!: :thumbup: Now I've got some really strange pictures running through my mind, especially when it gets to the cornmeal part.ops:


11 p.m. and I'm still laughing. And the cornmeal part! Somebody help me up! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Since dh rarely eats bread anymore, I don't make jam. I still make a few jars of pickled coleslaw and pickled beets. Also have lots of blackberries so I freeze them on cookie sheets and then into plastic containers


Why doesn't he eat bread? Diet?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh I understand. We lost on of our oak trees 2 months ago. It tore me up it was over 100years old. The drought had gotten it last year but I was trying to give it a chance to make a comeback. My son went ahead and cut it down . So sorry for your lost of tree too. I know we have to think it couldn't be anything like the loss in OK.


Sorry about your tree. I think we all know that in the big picture we are pretty lucky, but that doesn't mean it's wrong not to care about the things that hurt us. We had a huge, old weeping willow in the front yard and like you, we knew it wasn't that healthy but were still sad when it suddenly fell over last year


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> 11 p.m. and I'm still laughing. And the cornmeal part! Somebody help me up! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nope not going to help you hope you laugh so hard you pee your tenas. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Bobf3, I understand, too. We live in a very old part of town. At least the trees are very old. The house we live in had 5 large live oaks around it. When Ivan hit in 2004 the only damage we sustained was from the limb of a dogwood scraping against our roof. The insurance adjuster said all of the large trees acted like a wind break. Nearly every other house on our street had big damage. So, of course, the owner of the house next door finally got tired of renting it and returned. Some "Bubba" tree company showed up and convinced her that the two between her house and ours were rotted in the middle. When they were cutting on one they had the audacity to come into our front yard with their heaviest machine and mess up our yard. Then they told my husband they "had" to cut the tree down from our yard. He read them the riot act. And, of course, the trees weren't rotted. One was at least 100 years old. Greed. Just pure greed.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thanks, Yarnie. You are always kind and always make me feel better, even if I already feel good.


i think i am getting tired because that made sense to me, even if you already feel good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Sorry about your tree. I think we all know that in the big picture we are pretty lucky, but that doesn't mean it's wrong not to care about the things that hurt us. We had a huge, old weeping willow in the front yard and like you, we knew it wasn't that healthy but were still sad when it suddenly fell over last year


So true. They become part of our history.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Know what you mean, but have always had dogs most of my life, in fact my first word as a baby was guts, we had a dog named Guss, at least that is what mom told me. I have stood off so far, but one little yellow one lick my hand, and I do love puppy breath.


Why do I believe that all this is absolutely true?! You are priceless! If I don't meet you in this life, I sure hope I do in the next.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Is it like baby breath? I like baby breath.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a recipe not to try. Rump roast with gingerale in crock pot. Saw it on KP but didn't remember the recipe and our satelite was out. I just tried to remember it. It was ok but not as good as usual. Sorry about your tree too Stitchdesigner.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Nope not going to help you hope you laugh so hard you pee your tenas. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


And it could happen, too! :shock:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Bobf3, I understand, too. We live in a very old part of town. At least the trees are very old. The house we live in had 5 large live oaks around it. When Ivan hit in 2004 the only damage we sustained was from the limb of a dogwood scraping against our roof. The insurance adjuster said all of the large trees acted like a wind break. Nearly every other house on our street had big damage. So, of course, the owner of the house next door finally got tired of renting it and returned. Some "Bubba" tree company showed up and convinced her that the two between her house and ours were rotted in the middle. When they were cutting on one they had the audacity to come into our front yard with their heaviest machine and mess up our yard. Then they told my husband they "had" to cut the tree down from our yard. He read them the riot act. And, of course, the trees weren't rotted. One was at least 100 years old. Greed. Just pure greed.


Awful. Especially when you can't do anything about it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Sorry about your tree. I think we all know that in the big picture we are pretty lucky, but that doesn't mean it's wrong not to care about the things that hurt us. We had a huge, old weeping willow in the front yard and like you, we knew it wasn't that healthy but were still sad when it suddenly fell over last year


I can imagine. I love weeping willows. We had one, too - same thing happened to it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> i think i am getting tired because that made sense to me, even if you already feel good.


I mean that even if I already feel good, you always make me feel even better.

Except when you won't help me up!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks so much for all your kind words to me. You have really lifted me up. I went over to the Dark Side a few minutes ago - what a bunch of misery. Then I come back here and laugh so hard Yarnie almost pees her tenas! What a great group on here - you know so much and you are so crazy. Thanks a million!

Love to all,
Bonnie


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Uhhhhhh - I guess I'm a little more squeamish than you are, Seattle. My grandchildren have a lizard who eats crickets. Fascinating and gross at the same time. No, I'm not really ready to commit to mealworms, but it's an interesting idea. Maybe some day. Thanks for your enouragement.


Early exposure probably did the trick for me. Fortunatly, there is no rule that states anyone has to happily handle worms, so I think you're pretty safe. Grandchildren, on the other hand, will probably expose you to all sorts of yucky things.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why doesn't he eat bread? Diet?


too much gluten bothers him but he totally loves bread and muffins so he finds it easier to give it up than to ration himself. When I used to bake muffins he would eat 3 all at once. So now he just treats himself once in a while.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> too much gluten bothers him but he totally loves bread and muffins so he finds it easier to give it up than to ration himself. When I used to bake muffins he would eat 3 all at once. So now he just treats himself once in a while.


My daughter can't eat yeast. Like your husband, she'd rather just enjoy the smell of bread and not eat it at all than try to have a little and then stop. They're smart.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I would too, if I didn't have Wild Willie would miss him. But he is a hand full at times.
> 
> Sorry about your Charlie, have you found another one to take up where Charlie left off?
> 
> I had a German Shepard,named Bear and when I had to put him down, said would not have another dog as it breaks ones heart to see them go. But neighbor Lab had ten puppies. He and husband keep showing me the puppies I know they want me to take one. Just not sure if I want to .


You know as soon as you spot the pup you just might like to have, you'll start to fall in love with it and end up taking it home. I speak as someone who had 5 cats and a large dog at one time, and they all seduced me into taking them home with me.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Why do I believe that all this is absolutely true?! You are priceless! If I don't meet you in this life, I sure hope I do in the next.


I will be standing next to St. Peter yelling at you over here Bon over here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I think I wrote a long reply but I can't find it it is due to falling off the chair here, and having to crawl up the side of the wall and then it goes on and on. You know what I mean, well I don't.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I mean about the tree thing. I am really having a brain e act moment here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> too much gluten bothers him but he totally loves bread and muffins so he finds it easier to give it up than to ration himself. When I used to bake muffins he would eat 3 all at once. So now he just treats himself once in a while.


Oh I made three Cherry Almond muffins to night well I really didn't make them I went to a shop called you bake them, they make them I bake them. :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I will be standing next to St. Peter yelling at you over here Bon over here.


   If I get there first, I'll do the same for you. Will we recognize one another? Sure, we will!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I must depart now, husbans says I should not say this as any one over 50 does not want to depart the world if you catch my drift, and I really am drifting. Nite all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I made three Cherry Almond muffins to night well I really didn't make them I went to a shop called you bake them, they make them I bake them. :thumbup:


I'd like a bakery like that. How about a cup of tea? I'm having one in just a minute. Then to sleep. Up early - grandson's getting an award tomorrow, so I'm going. Sleep tight!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I think I wrote a long reply but I can't find it it is due to falling off the chair here, and having to crawl up the side of the wall and then it goes on and on. You know what I mean, well I don't.


LOL


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'd like a bakery like that. How about a cup of tea? I'm having one in just a minute. Then to sleep. Up early - grandson's getting an award tomorrow, so I'm going. Sleep tight!


what's the award for Bonnie? sounds like your grandkids have pretty active lives - keep you young


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> what's the award for Bonnie? sounds like your grandkids have pretty active lives - keep you young


I don't know yet. His mom got an email saying he would be receiving a "very special award" after church tomorrow. I think they wanted to be sure his parents would be there.

I think it's maybe for citizenship or friendship, something like that. He's a great kid, very easygoing - like his dad (my son). We have a lot of grandkids - thirteen - from 16 years to 9 months. They keep us busy! Sometimes TOO busy - but they're truly our greatest joy. :-D


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I don't know yet. His mom got an email saying he would be receiving a "very special award" after church tomorrow. I think they wanted to be sure his parents would be there.
> 
> I think it's maybe for citizenship or friendship, something like that. He's a great kid, very easygoing - like his dad (my son). We have a lot of grandkids - thirteen - from 16 years to 9 months. They keep us busy! Sometimes TOO busy - but they're truly our greatest joy. :-D


that's great, I'm happy that you have so many blessings


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

There are many gluten free products now. Has he tried any of them? I see them often.



west coast kitty said:


> too much gluten bothers him but he totally loves bread and muffins so he finds it easier to give it up than to ration himself. When I used to bake muffins he would eat 3 all at once. So now he just treats himself once in a while.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

That's a truly funny picture you paint.



theyarnlady said:


> I will be standing next to St. Peter yelling at you over here Bon over here.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh I understand. We lost on of our oak trees 2 months ago. It tore me up it was over 100years old. The drought had gotten it last year but I was trying to give it a chance to make a comeback. My son went ahead and cut it down . So sorry for your lost of tree too. I know we have to think it couldn't be anything like the loss in OK.


We almost lost a beautiful tree recently too. There was a bad hail storm in the Fall while we were out of town. Our neighbor notified us that the Bradford Pear in front of our house had damage. When we returned, my DH denuded the entire tree and meant to take the trunk out this Spring. But, our Spring has been moist and the weather ideal for growth. Suddenly, I saw new branches coming out. So, I knew the trunk was OK. Made a deal with DH who really just wanted to take the tree down. I told him to wait a year. If it doesn't have life or is misshaped, I agreed he could remove it. I think it will be OK. I don't think men get the idea of gentle pruning. He's the same when he trims shrubs. They all seem to end up ball shaped.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> too much gluten bothers him but he totally loves bread and muffins so he finds it easier to give it up than to ration himself. When I used to bake muffins he would eat 3 all at once. So now he just treats himself once in a while.


My niece has Celiac disease. Her father's side has the inheritable trait. She has had to totally give up gluten as found in wheat, barley and rye. The hardest thing for her was pizza dough. She is 30, works a stressful job, and is the mother of a 1-year-old. Hubby just got his MBA. So, I think she and hubby ate a lot of pizza because it was easy. I know she has some flour alternatives, but it's expensive. She has lost a lot of weight since she gave up gluten. It is amazing how many products have gluten in them.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> You know as soon as you spot the pup you just might like to have, you'll start to fall in love with it and end up taking it home. I speak as someone who had 5 cats and a large dog at one time, and they all seduced me into taking them home with me.


It is the perfect time of year to get a new pup and train it. My daughter got hers on New Year's Day. What a struggle to get that pup to do its business outside. The weather was brutal and I didn't blame the pup for not wanting to go out. Thankfully, We spent some time there with our dog, who ended up being a surrogate mother. The pup wanted to do everything her "Aunt Brandi" did. So she started going out with our dog and did finally get trained. I think Brandi liked being a dog trainer too. She always plays gently with new pups.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> that's great, I'm happy that you have so many blessings


Thanks, Kitty - that's so nice of you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> We almost lost a beautiful tree recently too. There was a bad hail storm in the Fall while we were out of town. Our neighbor notified us that the Bradford Pear in front of our house had damage. When we returned, my DH denuded the entire tree and meant to take the trunk out this Spring. But, our Spring has been moist and the weather ideal for growth. Suddenly, I saw new branches coming out. So, I knew the trunk was OK. Made a deal with DH who really just wanted to take the tree down. I told him to wait a year. If it doesn't have life or is misshaped, I agreed he could remove it. I think it will be OK. I don't think men get the idea of gentle pruning. He's the same when he trims shrubs. They all seem to end up ball shaped.


I'm glad you can save your tree. Bradford Pears are beautiful - leaves in fall look like they've been hand painted.
Yes - men are a bit heavy-handed with the shears! My husband really sees pruning as a great challenge, although now it's a bit much for him. I told him he'd have loved being a barber, using those razors like a tiny lawn mower!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> My niece has Celiac disease. Her father's side has the inheritable trait. She has had to totally give up gluten as found in wheat, barley and rye. The hardest thing for her was pizza dough. She is 30, works a stressful job, and is the mother of a 1-year-old. Hubby just got his MBA. So, I think she and hubby ate a lot of pizza because it was easy. I know she has some flour alternatives, but it's expensive. She has lost a lot of weight since she gave up gluten. It is amazing how many products have gluten in them.


It's a challenge. My daughter has food sensitivities. It took her a long time to figure out what was wrong. Now she avoids yeast and won't touch anything with carageenen. Just the tiny bit of carageenen in her toothpaste was keeping her awake at night! She was surprised - and glad - when she figured that one out. She has to cook everything from scratch because just a trace of some things not listed individually, just "spices" or "artificial flavor" will make her feel miserable. Luckily, she loves to cook and her husband loves her cooking.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It's a challenge. My daughter has food sensitivities. It took her a long time to figure out what was wrong. Now she avoids yeast and won't touch anything with carageenen. Just the tiny bit of carageenen in her toothpaste was keeping her awake at night! She was surprised - and glad - when she figured that one out. She has to cook everything from scratch because just a trace of some things not listed individually, just "spices" or "artificial flavor" will make her feel miserable. Luckily, she loves to cook and her husband loves her cooking.


I am glad she is so smart and figured out what was happening. It is manageable, but I feel bad for her that it takes so much effort. Makes me wonder what is happening in our environment that causes so many issues. Some, like my niece know it is genetic, but some sensitivities seem to be due to food changes, environmental changes, and medicine changes.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> My niece has Celiac disease. Her father's side has the inheritable trait. She has had to totally give up gluten as found in wheat, barley and rye. The hardest thing for her was pizza dough. She is 30, works a stressful job, and is the mother of a 1-year-old. Hubby just got his MBA. So, I think she and hubby ate a lot of pizza because it was easy. I know she has some flour alternatives, but it's expensive. She has lost a lot of weight since she gave up gluten. It is amazing how many products have gluten in them.


Knit, I have a great recipe for pizza that uses cauliflower crust (yes, you read that right) instead of a flour crust. Let me know if you're interested in it. It does take a bit of preparation, but it is really good. I'm getting ready to take off out of town for the Memorial Day weekend, but if you PM me, I'll try and get back to you ASAP. :O)


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I needed to lose some weight and found the "Idiot-Proof Diet" earlier this year. It meant no carbs or sugar for two weeks, then a gradual reintroduction of "good" carbs. What it did for me (apart from losing a stone - 14lbs - in a month was make me realise how addictive these foods are. I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate. 

On a very positive note, I no longer get those horrible shaky, hypoglycaemic episodes that I used to get when hungry. If I'm hungry now it's easier to go with it and wait until I can make some good food. And luckily I have never bought ready-made food since I had children. My daughter had multiple and quite severe food allergies (eggs, dairy, nuts) from babyhood, so it was beyond my patience to read every ingredient on a packet. And anyway, what's nicer than good meat, fish and fresh veg? I've gone on longer than I intended, as usual. Sorry.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> There are many gluten free products now. Has he tried any of them? I see them often.


He's tried some of the rice, potato and low gluten wheat products but doesn't think they are "great" so he'd rather do without. Once in a while he will meet a buddy for breakfast and have toast with bacon & eggs or for coffee and a muffin and then back on the wagon. But then again, I do the same thing with chocolate - just indulge once in a while


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I needed to lose some weight and found the "Idiot-Proof Diet" earlier this year. It meant no carbs or sugar for two weeks, then a gradual reintroduction of "good" carbs. What it did for me (apart from losing a stone - 14lbs - in a month was make me realise how addictive these foods are. I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate.
> 
> On a very positive note, I no longer get those horrible shaky, hypoglycaemic episodes that I used to get when hungry. If I'm hungry now it's easier to go with it and wait until I can make some good food. And luckily I have never bought ready-made food since I had children. My daughter had multiple and quite severe food allergies (eggs, dairy, nuts) from babyhood, so it was beyond my patience to read every ingredient on a packet. And anyway, what's nicer than good meat, fish and fresh veg? I've gone on longer than I intended, as usual. Sorry.


Good for you Not easy but you have seen the rewards of doing it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I was sitting out back before it began to rain and listening to all the birds sing. They do start very early just at sun raise and continue on. 
Then it struck me, they are praising God for the new Day. Isn't it wonderful that even the birds understand that. Why can't humans understand it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Have a great weekend holiday Bydie try to stay out of trouble.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> He's tried some of the rice, potato and low gluten wheat products but doesn't think they are "great" so he'd rather do without. Once in a while he will meet a buddy for breakfast and have toast with bacon & eggs or for coffee and a muffin and then back on the wagon. But then again, I do the same thing with chocolate - just indulge once in a while


We just have to once an a while other wise it will take over again.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Have a great weekend holiday Bydie try to stay out of trouble.


Going to be decorating family graves up in PA and since they have all "departed" (I like that phrase), there's not much trouble to get into. Although my sibs and I sometimes get to laughing so hard we think we could be having heart attacks. :O) 
I'll keep in touch.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cauliflower Crust Pizza

http://www.eat-drink-smile.com/2011/04/cauliflower-crust-pizza.html

I thought I posted it, but don't see it. I was falling off my chair also.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Going to be decorating family graves up in PA and since they have all "departed" (I like that phrase), there's not much trouble to get into. Although my sibs and I sometimes get to laughing so hard we think we could be having heart attacks. :O)
> I'll keep in touch.


I like departed to even if hubby jokes about it, but I really like waiting for me more will see them again.

Ah you are so wonderful to remember them, as that is what the day is truly meant to be.
Don't laugh so hard you need a depends.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.hometalk.com/1385654/use-reusable-grocery-bags-to-grow-potatoes This sounds easy enough.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I needed to lose some weight and found the "Idiot-Proof Diet" earlier this year. It meant no carbs or sugar for two weeks, then a gradual reintroduction of "good" carbs. What it did for me (apart from losing a stone - 14lbs - in a month was make me realise how addictive these foods are. I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate.
> 
> On a very positive note, I no longer get those horrible shaky, hypoglycaemic episodes that I used to get when hungry. If I'm hungry now it's easier to go with it and wait until I can make some good food. And luckily I have never bought ready-made food since I had children. My daughter had multiple and quite severe food allergies (eggs, dairy, nuts) from babyhood, so it was beyond my patience to read every ingredient on a packet. And anyway, what's nicer than good meat, fish and fresh veg? I've gone on longer than I intended, as usual. Sorry.


Anne you didn't go on. I want to know about that diet. I would love to know where you found it. Fourteen lbs would be just what I need to lose.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Don't you wonder why they need to put that carageenen (whatever that is) in it in the first place. Wonder what it does....brighter smile??



bonbf3 said:


> It's a challenge. My daughter has food sensitivities. It took her a long time to figure out what was wrong. Now she avoids yeast and won't touch anything with carageenen. Just the tiny bit of carageenen in her toothpaste was keeping her awake at night! She was surprised - and glad - when she figured that one out. She has to cook everything from scratch because just a trace of some things not listed individually, just "spices" or "artificial flavor" will make her feel miserable. Luckily, she loves to cook and her husband loves her cooking.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I'd be interested in that Birdie. We try to keep our carbs low. Love cauliflower.



Bydie said:


> Knit, I have a great recipe for pizza that uses cauliflower crust (yes, you read that right) instead of a flour crust. Let me know if you're interested in it. It does take a bit of preparation, but it is really good. I'm getting ready to take off out of town for the Memorial Day weekend, but if you PM me, I'll try and get back to you ASAP. :O)


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> He's tried some of the rice, potato and low gluten wheat products but doesn't think they are "great" so he'd rather do without. Once in a while he will meet a buddy for breakfast and have toast with bacon & eggs or for coffee and a muffin and then back on the wagon. But then again, I do the same thing with chocolate - just indulge once in a while


When my kids were babies they were highly allergic to wheat and milk. They could eat eggs. I had to use ground up oats to make my flour for cookies for them. They were good too. There were no special health food stores around here and not much infro around then. Thankfully they out grew the allergies but then started having pollen, dust and mold attergies. One cracker in daycare made them break out and nose run all day.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

beautiful picture.


theyarnlady said:


> I was sitting out back before it began to rain and listening to all the birds sing. They do start very early just at sun raise and continue on.
> Then it struck me, they are praising God for the new Day. Isn't it wonderful that even the birds understand that. Why can't humans understand it.


    :-D


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I like departed to even if hubby jokes about it, but I really like waiting for me more will see them again.
> 
> Ah you are so wonderful to remember them, as that is what the day is truly meant to be.
> Don't laugh so hard you need a depends.


I'm the family genealogist, Yarnie, and every time I find a "new " ancestor, we add them to the list (which is getting quite long). My brother jokes that we're getting pretty old for all the work involved and so he hopes I "don't
plan on getting all the way back to Adam". :thumbup:

I'm also anxious to see all of them again.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I needed to lose some weight and found the "Idiot-Proof Diet" earlier this year. It meant no carbs or sugar for two weeks, then a gradual reintroduction of "good" carbs. What it did for me (apart from losing a stone - 14lbs - in a month was make me realise how addictive these foods are. I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate.
> 
> On a very positive note, I no longer get those horrible shaky, hypoglycaemic episodes that I used to get when hungry. If I'm hungry now it's easier to go with it and wait until I can make some good food. And luckily I have never bought ready-made food since I had children. My daughter had multiple and quite severe food allergies (eggs, dairy, nuts) from babyhood, so it was beyond my patience to read every ingredient on a packet. And anyway, what's nicer than good meat, fish and fresh veg? I've gone on longer than I intended, as usual. Sorry.


I did the Atkins diet a few years ago - cutting out the breads wasn't hard at all but had to cut out fruit for 4 - 6 weeks and that was hard. Then gradually bring fruits and other good carbs back into diet. You've done well to stay disciplined - I haven't been as strong


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I was sitting out back before it began to rain and listening to all the birds sing. They do start very early just at sun raise and continue on.
> Then it struck me, they are praising God for the new Day. Isn't it wonderful that even the birds understand that. Why can't humans understand it.


I know even the trees and rocks will praise Him if we don't. I don't want a tree doing my job.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I'd be interested in that Birdie. We try to keep our carbs low. Love cauliflower.


I posted it....I think it showed up on the previous page. :O)


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> When my kids were babies they were highly allergic to wheat and milk. They could eat eggs. I had to use ground up oats to make my flour for cookies for them. They were good too. There were no special health food stores around here and not much infro around then. Thankfully they out grew the allergies but then started having pollen, dust and mold attergies. One cracker in daycare made them break out and nose run all day.


Allergies are awful things to deal with. I'm grateful that I don't have any that I know of (so they can't be bad). There has been a lot of cottonwood fluff the last week or so and a lot of people here have runny noses and eyes


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

hope you have a great long weekend with your family Bydie - and a great day for everyone else - time to get ready for work


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks. It sure does look good.



Bydie said:


> I posted it....I think it showed up on the previous page. :O)


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I got it from the other site.



west coast kitty said:


> hope you have a great long weekend with your family Bydie - and a great day for everyone else - time to get ready for work


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Have you ever had something happen to you that changed your whole life? This song changed me. It is a song by Amy Grant from 1982.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUgP9hfcEQY


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know even the trees and rocks will praise Him if we don't. I don't want a tree doing my job.


Why? It might produce better results.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know even the trees and rocks will praise Him if we don't. I don't want a tree doing my job.


I think all of nature praises Him but sometimes we forget to. I find it comforting to think that the praise continues even when I forget.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think all of nature praises Him but sometimes we forget to. I find it comforting to think that the praise continues even when I forget.


Me too SS. He is worthy of our praise.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Cauliflower Crust Pizza
> 
> http://www.eat-drink-smile.com/2011/04/cauliflower-crust-pizza.html
> 
> I thought I posted it, but don't see it. I was falling off my chair also.


Thanks for the recipe. I'll try it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Check out last three items on Chit Chat today.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Check out last three items on Chit Chat today.


What were they? Everytime someone posted it changes.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks CB I didn't know that. The ones I'm referring to are: Shoplifting, Tonsils and circumcision and air traffic wimp.com.

The last one has some interesting posts if you go to the next ones. Good ones on number theory for anyone who enjoys math.



Country Bumpkins said:


> What were they? Everytime someone posted it changes.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thanks CB I didn't know that. The ones I'm referring to are: Shoplifting, Tonsils and circumcision and air traffic wimp.com.
> 
> The last one has some interesting posts if you go to the next ones. Good ones on number theory for anyone who enjoys math.


I can't find them even used search.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

O.k. found one.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I am glad she is so smart and figured out what was happening. It is manageable, but I feel bad for her that it takes so much effort. Makes me wonder what is happening in our environment that causes so many issues. Some, like my niece know it is genetic, but some sensitivities seem to be due to food changes, environmental changes, and medicine changes.


I think it's environmental, too. Your niece's is different, and much more difficult I'm sure. My daughter (Susan) says she thinks it's because of all the unnatural "junk" they put in food. There are some weird things we're eating. too bad they taste so good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I needed to lose some weight and found the "Idiot-Proof Diet" earlier this year. It meant no carbs or sugar for two weeks, then a gradual reintroduction of "good" carbs. What it did for me (apart from losing a stone - 14lbs - in a month was make me realise how addictive these foods are. I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate.
> 
> On a very positive note, I no longer get those horrible shaky, hypoglycaemic episodes that I used to get when hungry. If I'm hungry now it's easier to go with it and wait until I can make some good food. And luckily I have never bought ready-made food since I had children. My daughter had multiple and quite severe food allergies (eggs, dairy, nuts) from babyhood, so it was beyond my patience to read every ingredient on a packet. And anyway, what's nicer than good meat, fish and fresh veg? I've gone on longer than I intended, as usual. Sorry.


I admire you. A change like that is not easy. Of course, you had the best reason of all - your daughter. Cooking from scratch is almost a lost art. I think doing that is very much admired nowadays. It certainly is by me!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I admire you. A change like that is not easy. Of course, you had the best reason of all - your daughter. Cooking from scratch is almost a lost art. I think doing that is very much admired nowadays. It certainly is by me!


Thanks, Bonnie. I have to admit I was not brought up that way. My mother was a legendarily terrible cook, apart from bread and pastry, so I had no model to follow and didn't know how to boil potatoes until I was 19 and at university. The people I met sparked an interest that has only grown over the years. I like to think my children have learned from me - my boy, who is 19 tomorrow, oftens sends me excited texts from uni to tell me what he's cooked. It's very sweet.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Sorry you had such a bad night but glad you are fine.
> 
> Do you have a storm shelter? I want to know why the house in the south do not have basement under them?


Yarnie, No storm shelter here, nor a basement either. I can't speak for other states, but Florida's ground is too soft to have basements. I think it is because the soil is too sandy.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Glad that you are safe. Prayer for those who weren't so fortunate. Is a safe room anything like the old bomb shelters if anyone remembers those. I imagine it is under the ground. What about air?
> 
> I think if I heard of an approaching tornado with good warning I'd get in my car and drive as fast as I could as far as it would take me. And I'd be sure to keep a full tank of gas. And turn off the gas in the house before leaving.


The ones that people in OKC were using were built in their garages underground, or a separate structure bolted to the concrete. Real safe. Mine is not. It is a closet in the center of the house (under the stairs actually), obviously without windows.

unfortunately there is no good warning with a tornado. Maybe 5 minutes, 10 at most. Just time enough to gather people, pets, etc., and get into the safe room. I do keep the important papers and extra dog leashes and another set of clothing and sturdy shoes there as well. Never know what you will find when you go out there. Shoes are so necessary.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I, too, am glad that you are ok. I will pray that your friends call you soon and that every will be fine with them.


My friends are OK, no so much their house. I heard through the grapevine that others have survived as well. Such good news.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks, Bonnie. I have to admit I was not brought up that way. My mother was a legendarily terrible cook, apart from bread and pastry, so I had no model to follow and didn't know how to boil potatoes until I was 19 and at university. The people I met sparked an interest that has only grown over the years. I like to think my children have learned from me - my boy, who is 19 tomorrow, oftens sends me excited texts from uni to tell me what he's cooked. It's very sweet.


That's so nice - whenever they call is good, but especially if you have a shared interest. I think young people today are more conscious of good food than I was.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I love bread, rice, pasta, cake, all the usual suspects, but I can't just have a little bit. It takes more self-discipline than I possess to have one piece of chocolate.
> 
> .


I can relate to that. Portion control is a problem for me. I really can't have ice cream in the house. It is my downfall. If here, I will eat the whole container, almost in one sitting. Now I usually have it when I am out.


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