# IRISH CROCHET



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Have always thought Irish crochet was Irish. Didn't it originate in Ireland? And what about knitted cables too? I don't doubt that other countries have them as well but....
Can someone PLEASE tell me WHY I can only find these patterns in Russian and Chinese. I do not understand their language and find google translate LIMITED in these translations. 
I end up following BLURRY CHARTS with foreign symbols and my pinterest Language crochet cheat sheets are limited as well.
Why aren't they SHARING like the rest of us...
Sometimes they take SOOOO long to load we are sure we are getting HACKED...tells me they know English
HOW CAN WE GET BETTER ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS? WOULD LOVE SOME ANSWERS.....
And YES, I AM getting an attitude about it until it is SOLVED!
......signed, 'have been hacked before and KNOW it'


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

to anyone who finds this insulting....
you are not EVERYONE in your country so do not take it personally
and 
PLEASE
I WANT SOMETHING DONE ABOUT IT
NOW


----------



## OMgirl (Mar 7, 2011)

There are many wonderful books about Irish Crochet... 
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=irish+crochet+books&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
perhaps you could find some at your local library as well...
the instructions will be in English, the charts will be clear, and no worries about having your computer hacked! ~Cheers!


----------



## Becca (Jan 26, 2011)

Where are you looking? Ravelry? the library? For patterns the best bets are the two sources I just mentioned. Then go to your local yarn shops to see what is available. If you want to purchase books, go to Amazon and type in "Irish crochet" books or whatever you are looking for. With titles in hand check to see if your library carries them.

Google does have a translator for foreign topics but English is a tricky language and not all translations make sense, especially with knitting and/or crocheting.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Quote - "HOW CAN WE GET BETTER ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS? WOULD LOVE SOME ANSWERS....."
Quote - "PLEASE
I WANT SOMETHING DONE ABOUT IT
NOW"

Become a computer programmer and create your own program for translations.
There are so many dialects in this world, I would say (IMHO) that it would be nearly impossible to get much better than Google Translate.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

worked at a library for years and have visited many libraries when I travel---the old one are the BEST
And ravelry has improved in THIS area over the last two or three years, I've noticed
English is one of the major languages.....and I expect google to translate it for me or another program
I didn't realize you were waiting for me to design the program....and I have no interest there.
I was hoping someone knew of a program that ALREADY EXISTED...


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

I am not sure WHERE you are looking on the "Internet" for your patterns. I also cannot tell you the history of the crafts you mention, but I CAN tell you to look at Ravelry for patterns with cables and Irish Crochet.

I do a LOT of cable projects and Aran patterns and have NEVER come across the problems you mention. Ravelry has thousands of well-written cable or Aran patterns available with great charts. Thousands are available for free, but if you are willing to pay for a pattern, there are thousands more available to you.

As I said... I have no idea where you are finding your patterns with difficult to read instructions and unreadable charts. I use Ravelry and have never encountered ANY of the issues you seem to be encountering repeatedly. 

Ravelry is free to join.... I highly recommend joining for access to "all the patterns you can knit or crochet in several lifetimes" with good instructions and good charts. You can also read notes from others who have already knitted or crocheted the pattern to see how it worked up and IF they had any problems with the pattern or made mods. before YOU start the project! Ravelry is an invaluable resource for us knitters and crocheters!!!!


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I am a Ravelry member and what I am referring to is all over the internet
I find that Romania has been very generous with their patterns as well as Spanish speaking countries ...and Sweden and Norway and Austrailia too


----------



## jennifer1954 (Nov 8, 2011)

http://www.ehow.com/how_7214821_irish-crochet.html


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

&#128547;Omg! Someone has a bee in her bonnet this morning!&#128536;


----------



## jennifer1954 (Nov 8, 2011)

Crochet originated in France, French nuns brought it to Ireland where they taught women to do it to feed their families during times of famine.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

YES, probably since I remember searching libraries over 40 years ago for how to do Chinese knotwork and was disgusted to find only one book in one library and it revealed no how to at all but to marvel at their workmanship. At the time, I couldn't believe what I was reading. It was written very carefully to reveal nothing and I've never forgotten it.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

that's fine


----------



## Novasea (Nov 10, 2012)

Since the Internet is a global endeavor...a global community so to speak...it is totally unrealistic to expect...or demand as you did...that you be accommodated by all resources being made available in English. Now..you COULD learn Russian, Chinese...or whatever language the resource you are accessing is written in and your problem would be solved.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I am a Ravelry member and what I am referring to is all over the internet


Well, then you DO have access to all the patterns you will ever need! If you find one with poor charts and/or instructions, move along to the next one that IS satisfactory to suit your knitting tastes, skills, language, etcetera. This is why most of us spend time reading through patterns to see if we want to use them or not.

It is highly unreasonable to expect designers in other countries (you mentioned Russian and Chinese) to cater to EVERY knitter in EVERY country! That is extremely unrealistic... If this is what you are looking for, I think Galaxycraft has given you the appropriate answer.

If you are talking about a pattern you have PAID for that was "advertised" to be written in English and it is not or is not translated well, or has unreadable charts, you should contact the designer for a refund!

I would find it much easier to SEARCH for a pattern that suits YOUR knitting style and tastes in a format that is acceptable to you rather than complain/demand that all designers write their patterns according to YOUR standards... Good luck with that!


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I know what I'm doing and my request is not unreasonable

MY GOAL IS FOR A CHANGE TO OCCUR


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I know what I'm doing and my request is not unreasonable
> 
> MY GOAL IS FOR A CHANGE TO OCCUR


Wrong media forum to make that happen.
Take your requests/demands to Software developers and see if they are able to make it happen.
I for one, would not write (re-write) my designs to accommodate every Countries languages.


----------



## rubberlegstootsie (Jul 20, 2013)

When it comes to language translations, Asian languages are structured in a different order than English. Also, the pitch you use sometimes makes the meaning different. And dialects - ugh! And there are different forms of Gaelic, not just Irish. So when you find a clear & correct translation it's almost like a miracle.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I am a Ravelry member and what I am referring to is all over the internet
> I find that Romania has been very generous with their patterns as well as Spanish speaking countries ...and Sweden and Norway and Austrailia too


I know EXACTLY where you are getting your patterns from!! I have about 100 of them right now on my computer. I bought a good malware and virus program and dug in, lol!! I agree, and would add Japanese pattern, both knitting and crocheting, to the mix. They are amazing, so much more creative than many English language patterns, but so hard to figure out, even with a cheat sheet.

I sooooo feel your pain!!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Wrong media forum to make that happen.
> Take your requests/demands to Software developers and see if they are able to make it happen.
> I for one, would not write (re-write) my designs to accommodate every Countries languages.


I think for the most part she is tongue in cheek here. I don't really think she expects anyone to buy 400 Rosetta Stone programs and start translating their patterns, do you?


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> YES, probably since I remember searching libraries over 40 years ago for how to do Chinese knotwork and was disgusted to find only one book in one library and it revealed no how to at all but to marvel at their workmanship. At the time, I couldn't believe what I was reading. It was written very carefully to reveal nothing and I've never forgotten it.


I just got an email from Country Bumpkins on a new book on Chinese Embroidery/Threadwork today. I don't know if it would help you, but I understand from the ad that there aren't many definitive books on the subject and this book is supposed to meet that need. You can google "Country Bumpkins" or PM me and I'll send you the link.

I would love to share links to those crochet patterns if you want. I love them. You really have to go to the source, Ravelry isn't much help. Pintrest has been my best bet so far to find them.


----------



## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

Perhaps you need NAP. 
We are just a knitting group here. And we don't have time to change the world of knitting.
Perhaps you should write your own patterns in whatever language you wish.
But KP is not the place for your request.
JMHO.


andyjmcc said:


> I know what I'm doing and my request is not unreasonable
> 
> MY GOAL IS FOR A CHANGE TO OCCUR


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

THANK YOU 
I appreciate what you know....I'm just seem to be having difficulty with the idea that it is 2013 and these things have not all been accomplished yet. I would guess they would be translated to their OWN main language FIRST and then to other MAJOR languages--I thought that was how it worked already...
Japan and China have been leaders in technology for years and I thought something was out there that translates better than what I am seeing. Apple has recently moved headquarters to China so perhaps it will happen sooner than I think? 
It seems to be the pages within the pages that are most difficult....the alphabets mainly, since the symbols do have translation charts (those should be with each pattern though and aren't)
I can follow Spanish charts without a hitch and I speak no spanish nor do I bother to translate. Same with Romanian and a few others.

WAITING FOR THE CHANGE


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> I think for the most part she is tongue in cheek here. I don't really think she expects anyone to buy 400 Rosetta Stone programs and start translating their patterns, do you?


Not what or how it was meant.
She comes in guns all ablaze about translations of patterns.
..............................
andyjmcc said ...
"HOW CAN WE GET BETTER ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS? WOULD LOVE SOME ANSWERS.....
And YES, I AM getting an attitude about it until it is SOLVED!"

"PLEASE I WANT SOMETHING DONE ABOUT IT NOW"

"been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it"

"and I expect google to translate it for me or another program
I didn't realize you were waiting for me to design the program....and I have no interest there.
I was hoping someone knew of a program that ALREADY EXISTED..."

"I find that Romania has been very generous with their patterns as well as Spanish speaking countries ...and Sweden and Norway and Austrailia too"

"I know what I'm doing and my request is not unreasonable
MY GOAL IS FOR A CHANGE TO OCCUR"

"I'm just seem to be having difficulty with the idea that it is 2013 and these things have not all been accomplished yet. 
I would guess they would be translated to their OWN main language FIRST and then to other MAJOR languages--
I thought that was how it worked already..."
..............................
So my responses have been reasonable considering the yelling going on.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

oh yes knitting paradise IS one of the places to make the change!


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> oh yes knitting paradise IS one of the places to make the change!


Not with my patterns .. bye, bye and good luck with your rant.


----------



## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

I for one cannot wait to see where this will all go...I'm guessing south...


----------



## albie (Jun 2, 2011)

internet is global. you would have to go to EVERY global internet(not just ours),every country to complain. to,two,too,which one do you want? their,there,which one? bank,which one are referring to? our language is tooooo complicated to try to reverse reasonably. they don't use all the little words like it,is,the,etc.and sometimes reverse them when talking or writing. You are expecting to much!! even here sometimes you have to read between the lines, AND THEY KNOW ENGLISH!!! between the brain,mouths,and hands there is a pause. it isn't easy to go from brain to words to type.(AM I USING THE RIGHT TO?) sit back,relax,have a coffee and sooner or later something will come to you, if not OH WELL!


----------



## Keepingbusy (Dec 24, 2012)

andyjmcc said:


> been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it


I don't think that this forum is the best place to vent about an internet "fix".


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

I think the Russian, Romanian, and Japanese designers are missing a HUGE (yelling intended) market for their patterns by not translating to English and other main languages, The designs are so much more creative than what is usually found here, and those designers would make a fortune!! If you haven't seen them yet, take a look. And much of their crochet patterns are for gorgeous blouses and purses I would love to wear. I think that is the point andyjmcc is trying to make, am I correct? I so feel your frustration, lol!!


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

this isn't just a rant

I EXPECT to make a change and I WILL 

it is because it is GLOBAL that I want to bring this up

it is a known problem

thank you albie--I know it is difficult for the individuals themselves but for the community as a whole I think it can be done.

As I said before Ravelry only began a year or two ago and they do it...


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

thank you vjh1530

you understand my point


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

good one, mopgenorth!

but you don't know unless you try....
and I've done it before


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I started my 'crap' back in the 70's

I wanted yardage back on the skeins and got it
I wanted 10 to 12" circular needles and we have them now
I wanted 3" or 4" DPNs and they are now available
some people wanted no dye lot skeins and got it

we have to try...


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

Naw, she is just having a rant among friends. It's ok. I feel like that some days also.


----------



## Vulcan1957 (Jun 20, 2012)

I love looking at some of these Japanese patterns and Russian patterns, I appreciate them sharing charts. Some of the charts I wish were written out in English, but that is life...but I want to Thank all of them for sharing their designs in one form or another....


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Duplet magazine seems to have glossary in the back which is nice.

Sometimes I just love the pattern and it translates then the superimposed scan of the chart is just crammed with foreign alphabets.....

Can't we just get a GLOSSARY for all those little notations hanging around the charts? common phrases used in the directions


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I started my 'crap' back in the 70's
> 
> I wanted yardage back on the skeins and got it
> I wanted 10 to 12" circular needles and we have them now
> ...


I agree. The squeaking wheel gets oiled!


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

Keepingbusy said:


> I don't think that this forum is the best place to vent about an internet "fix".


Sure it is. Power in numbers!


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you. I am done....have been all over the internet today looking up translations to find what is missing

have found a much better copy (not blurry) of Russian from Duplet
http://crochetology.net/the-crochetologist/crochet-symbols-and-terminologies/

and have also found a short tutorial by dancingbarefoot---contains a very simple charted diagram but now the notations on the side are no longer a mystery but simply identifying the repeat (I had thought it meant more than this)

and Chinese tools.com that has a full character list that can at least be typed into google translate if found in a pattern

and someone was wonderful enough to send some info directly to me

thank you


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

sorry, that is not the one translated to English but it is on my Pinterest board
--called K?C symbols/translations
I've been collecting them for awhile and Pinterest has produced a few more===many just refer back to the crochet symbols we all know but it's nice to see what some of the words mean. So many are in image form but I hope it will help others besides me. I can do charts: I just can't do other languages or blurry charts.


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> oh yes knitting paradise IS one of the places to make the change!


HOW? as you know we can do it tell us how. You're one up on most of us.
And maybe copyright exists on the patterns as well so that translations of them can't be made and put on line.
Goggle translation I believe works well for routine things but with unusual words or special meanings it doesn't think things out too well. It's brain isn't too good. Mind you I think that a programme that can do a half decent job of translation most of the time is amazing.


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> I think the Russian, Romanian, and Japanese designers are missing a HUGE (yelling intended) market for their patterns by not translating to English and other main languages, The designs are so much more creative than what is usually found here, and those designers would make a fortune!! If you haven't seen them yet, take a look. And much of their crochet patterns are for gorgeous blouses and purses I would love to wear. I think that is the point andyjmcc is trying to make, am I correct? I so feel your frustration, lol!!


But what is KP meant to do about it? I'm not at all convinced that that is what KP is about.
Surely she is better yelling at the designers in these countries than KPers? or speaking nicely to computer programmers to see if what she wants can be developed.


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I started my 'crap' back in the 70's
> 
> I wanted yardage back on the skeins and got it
> I wanted 10 to 12" circular needles and we have them now
> ...


Well why yell at us? Surely to get our support you should be trying to get us onside not offside?
And if you didn't mean to come across as yelling you shouldn't have used all those capitals- and instead followed KP guidelines asking us not to use capitals becuase it is yelling.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

darowil said:


> Well why yell at us? Surely to get our support you should be trying to get us onside not offside?
> And if you didn't mean to come across as yelling you shouldn't have used all those capitals- and instead followed KP guidelines asking us not to use capitals becuase it is yelling.


That's what I thought too!


----------



## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it[/quote
> Learn Russian and/or Chinese
> 
> :lol:


----------



## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I am a Ravelry member and what I am referring to is all over the internet
> I find that Romania has been very generous with their patterns as well as Spanish speaking countries ...and Sweden and Norway and Austrailia too


But unfortunately, certainly in Spain itself, many people are EXTREMELY IMMORAL (as we are having a shouty day) about copyright, so the patterns they are being so generous with might not be theirs to share.

When teaching there I have been offered memory sticks with many books scanned onto them, and I know that my teaching materials and patterns are passed on to whoever wants them.

@OP. Although you are obviously upset that you've been hacked into in the past, there are many other reasons why a download might be slow. For example, my old PC is incredibly slow compared to my tablet. On days when the weather is bad the connection to the Internet is poor and keeps dropping out; on those days downloads are particularly slow even if we don't lose the connection.

There are many excellent books on irish crochet, but as crochet and particularly Irish crochet is considered to be a way to make Lace, you might be interested in the IOLI Ning pages. IOLI, based in America is one of the oldest established international lace groups, and along with The Lace Guild in the UK is interested in all ways of making a lace fabric: bobbin lace, needlelace, knitting, crochet, tatting, knotting, embroidery etc etc

As well as their website, IOLI also run a Ning Forum ( http://laceioli.ning.com/) and one of the sections of that is for Irish crochet. Go and have a look as I'm sure someone there could help you, but while you're there, please don't shout.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I tend to leave caps lock on. I see capitalization as a way to emphasize when italic fonts are not available to highlight a point to be skimmed. I see nothing wrong with it. So many on the internet refer to it as yelling and I don't know why. I use it for quick responses too...emails and everything. I see nothing wrong with it at all but have discovered I am alone in this thought. I like to make my point and be quick over wordy sometimes. I use spacing for it too but no one seems to care about that yet. I feel I have lost another BASIC American right due to the interpretation of others. 
TONE is not always pissed!
I have no intention of yelling at individual designers--it is not THEIR fault. ;I guess I believe it will be a Mac vs pc issue now. I just thought it had already happened and that I couldn't find it. It happens mainly on the scanned images that enlarge
(to be able to count charted stitches) 
to a rather BLURRY form--with the added attraction of foreign notations to boot. One advantage of this error is that it contributes to our FREEFORM and new creations, even new patterns. 
If you think I am pissed and frustrated, I am not. This is how change and improvement happens rather than sliding by unnoticed.
If you think I am the only one, then just type in some form of the word 'translate' related to your search on Pinterest. There are a slew of notes on peoples' pins yearning for a translation.
....maybe some of you just need to know that this comes from someone who is totally shocked every time I get a new cell phone about what it CAN'T do that my old one could......??????
I can cause a change and I know it.
As for KP, I thought it was for anything and everything about knitting (mainly) and crochet. No one has to take it personally or that I expect it of them....


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I just searched 'guidelines' because I have never found the KP guidelines.
Just now I found 'HELP with guidelines'
and FYI it is filled with people scolded for capitals
I like all their reasons
I may have to leave.......


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Seems to me that what you want is for everyone to conform to your ideas! You "tend" to leave your caps lock on, and if the rest of the world interprets that as yelling, we should go hang. You want better translations, but the resources for all kinds of information and patterns, such as Ravelry, don't satisfy you. Everyone should learn to speak English, because that's what you speak. Time to get over yourself!


----------



## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I tend to leave caps lock on. I see capitalization as a way to emphasize when italic fonts are not available ..........


But italic fonts, and bold, are available. _ square bracket, i (or b, as appropriate), square bracket to start, text, and square bracket, /i (or /b, as appropriate), square bracket to end _. Easy peasy.

Instructions are just below the smileys on the left. You can do underlined and coloured text in the same way, all non-aggressive ways of making a point. But personally I don't like all capitalised text as I find it distracting to read, and I can understand why it has been labelled as shouting. It's bigger, and in your face. :-D


----------



## Valanteen (Sep 28, 2011)

I know what you mean! I love the Russian, Chinese, and Japanese sites. The translation leave a lot to be desired. I look for the charted ones. Have you tried the oes from South America? They usually have little flags that will translate into English. They also have exception and original designs. Sometimes I have actually gotten in touch with the designers for clarification. Guess we will have to wait for a better translation website.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

It was a very good reply. I am interested in the lace. I have done what I call "air" crochet for years--Since I was 18 and shocked that there were no patterns from the 1800's available. I checked libraries and everything. I made a big stink about it and began to do my own patterns. The world caught up--they are available now. 
I lived the era of fighting for the LOST ARTS with others and won. Even doilies are now appreciated by many. I made them when no one cared to have them. I have never been able to find how to do bobbin lace though my family heritage lies in textiles and my dad had a slew of them. So many books are about the history of lace, etc. and not about doing it so it's nice to know it's out there--but the link didn't work.
Copyright is always an issue. Many of us can make nearly everything we see if we want to and have been copied as well. I've seen my own attributed to others many a time--I just figure more people can do it. I see nothing wrong with patterns passed down throughout the years and compliment the spanish-speaking countries most in this regard. It's no different than recipes and copycat recipes.
However, I do have a problem about 'shouting' but will do a separate post.


----------



## Gumblossom (Oct 18, 2012)

jennifer1954 said:


> Crochet originated in France, French nuns brought it to Ireland where they taught women to do it to feed their families during times of famine.


The Irish then developed their own style of crochet. Whole families including the men worked on these pieces and it became a work of art. Families kept their technic well guarded and would let no one see them work. Irish Crochet pieces became well sought after by wealthy English. The Irish style was eventually taught to women in Spanish fishing villages and so it then spread to other parts of the world.


----------



## BCourtEJ (Jan 2, 2012)

Irish Crochet the technique of making seperate motifs and joining them with a background mesh did originate in Ireland. In mid 18th century the needlepoint laces of Italy were very highly prized.True that a nun unpicked some Venetian Gros Point and derived the use of padding to raise the surface of crochet.As the industry grew in popularity the fame of Irish Lace spread across the world,this in turn lead to other countries making their own versions of it,France ,Austria and Italy being amongst the leading ones.With the improvements in printing in late19th and early 20 th centuries we have been left a legacy of informative books which detail the methods used in the technique.Many of these are availible to download for free on internet sites like Antique Pattern Library,Google Books and Archive.org.Over the last few years Japan has taken up IC as has the Ukrainne and Russia with the advent of magazines like Moa and Duplet.It must be said that these magazines have added new methods to the traditional---many motifs lack any padding -they use crab stitch and treble chain foundation(UK) to construct curves.
It would certainly make life much easier for Irish Crochet Lovers if a program could be invented to iron out all wrinkles we encounter -if this is not possible should we then ask modern publishers to produce a technical manual on Irish Crochet Methods and Construction---Eileen


----------



## BCourtEJ (Jan 2, 2012)

Irish Crochet the technique of making seperate motifs and joining them with a background mesh did originate in Ireland. In mid 18th century the needlepoint laces of Italy were very highly prized.True that a nun unpicked some Venetian Gros Point and derived the use of padding to raise the surface of crochet.As the industry grew in popularity the fame of Irish Lace spread across the world,this in turn lead to other countries making their own versions of it,France ,Austria and Italy being amongst the leading ones.With the improvements in printing in late19th and early 20 th centuries we have been left a legacy of informative books which detail the methods used in the technique.Many of these are availible to download for free on internet sites like Antique Pattern Library,Google Books and Archive.org.Over the last few years Japan has taken up IC as has the Ukrainne and Russia with the advent of magazines like Moa and Duplet.It must be said that these magazines have added new methods to the traditional---many motifs lack any padding -they use crab stitch and treble chain foundation(UK) to construct curves.
It would certainly make life much easier for Irish Crochet Lovers if a program could be invented to iron out all wrinkles we encounter -if this is not possible should we then ask modern publishers to produce a technical manual on Irish Crochet Methods and Construction---Eileen


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I have one more point to make and I will leave the group as soon as the administrator tells me to and how to resign.
I feel it is highly and more ANTAGONISTIC of others to accuse one of shouting, yelling or whatever words are used by those who object to emphasis. I notice this on other websites as well and consider it an internet problem and invasion of my rights.
I firmly believe the written word does not create SOUND and tone is also open to interpretation. I think this needs to be learned on a LARGER scale.
It is also discrimination of the elderly and the poor of sight.

IT IS ENTIRELY THROUGH INTERPRETATION ALONE THAT CAPITALS ARE YELLING OR SHOUTING AND I THINK IT IS TIME PEOPLE LEARN THAT


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> If you think I am pissed and frustrated, I am not. This is how change and improvement happens rather than sliding by unnoticed.
> 
> As for KP, I thought it was for anything and everything about knitting (mainly) and crochet. No one has to take it personally or that I expect it of them....


Your post came across as expecting us to do something- not just a frustration that you can't find what you wanted in understandable English- but angry and angry with everyone including us here on KP. And while you may not see capitals as yelling as you said most other people do so your posts look like we are being yelled at. And most people respond negatively to be yelled at- even when the person yelling is justified. And in fact this is the main reason why you got so much negative feedback- we didn't like being yelled at. A word or two I see as emphasis but long stretches look like yelling even before I read what is written. Like someone with a loud voice can be misunderstood just by speaking until people get to know them
And the frustration is understandable- in fact part of the reason I don't look at sites I know I won't be able to understand is so I'm not frustrated by it.
So please don't leave because of this- but think before you post how others might perceive what you have typed. Use another way to empahsis what you are saying-they are available but not as conveniently as capitals I agree. And if you use quick reply at the bottom you will need to click edit and then use the box to the left to tell you how to do this.
But you can do _italics_ and *bold* or even different colours


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

sorry need to edit 
my board 
is called K/C symbols/translations on Pinterest


----------



## Marge St Pete (Jul 21, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Seems to me that what you want is for everyone to conform to your ideas! You "tend" to leave your caps lock on, and if the rest of the world interprets that as yelling, we should go hang. You want better translations, but the resources for all kinds of information and patterns, such as Ravelry, don't satisfy you. Everyone should learn to speak English, because that's what you speak. Time to get over yourself!


Agree!!!!!


----------



## BCourtEJ (Jan 2, 2012)

Andyjmcc-
I am an expert on Irish crochet Lace and will help if you contact me on ravlery


----------



## mairmie (Jun 16, 2011)

hi andyjmcc; Sorry you`re having problems.Whichever "beach" you `re on might have a good library with books regarding internet translating. Other than that I think the advice given to you by omGirl and Jennifer: sounds like those sites could be helpful to you,
I agree that Irish Crochet is lovely. How about finding someone in your area who understands these particular crochet terms.


----------



## Lil Kristie (Nov 25, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Well, then you DO have access to all the patterns you will ever need! If you find one with poor charts and/or instructions, move along to the next one that IS satisfactory to suit your knitting tastes, skills, language, etcetera. This is why most of us spend time reading through patterns to see if we want to use them or not.
> 
> It is highly unreasonable to expect designers in other countries (you mentioned Russian and Chinese) to cater to EVERY knitter in EVERY country! That is extremely unrealistic... If this is what you are looking for, I think Galaxycraft has given you the appropriate answer.
> 
> ...


I totally agree AmyKnits.


----------



## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I see nothing wrong with patterns passed down throughout the years and compliment the spanish-speaking countries most in this regard. It's no different than recipes and copycat recipes.
> However, I do have a problem about 'shouting' but will do a separate post.


But I'm not talking about patterns passed down through the years. The memory sticks full of books are modern books of bobbin lace work, new and contemporary designs, that the author has worked often for years to publish. By scanning and distributing in this way, the market is substantially reduced, and the author will think twice about writing any more books.

There is a relatively new quarterly lace magazine in Spain, it's been on the market for about three years, and almost as soon as a new issue arrives with the subscribers, photocopied patterns from it are being sold by unscrupulous suppliers to lacemakers, and pages appear on the Web. It's no wonder she is having trouble increasing the number of subscribers. In contrast, here in the UK, we have very little problem with people stealing (because that's what it is) from our Lace Guild magazine.


----------



## Angelsmom1 (Jan 28, 2012)

I would think that amazon and e-bay would have books available. I buy used books there for not much money. They may even carry supplies. You may find a vendor that knows what your looking for.


----------



## Lil Kristie (Nov 25, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> THANK YOU
> I appreciate what you know....I'm just seem to be having difficulty with the idea that it is 2013 and these things have not all been accomplished yet. I would guess they would be translated to their OWN main language FIRST and then to other MAJOR languages--I thought that was how it worked already...
> Japan and China have been leaders in technology for years and I thought something was out there that translates better than what I am seeing. Apple has recently moved headquarters to China so perhaps it will happen sooner than I think?
> It seems to be the pages within the pages that are most difficult....the alphabets mainly, since the symbols do have translation charts (those should be with each pattern though and aren't)
> ...


Then go to the Governments of the Countries you want the patterns for and TELL THEM YOU WANT THEM TO CHANGE THEIR TRANSLATIONS. JUST FOR YOU. See how far that gets you. As was stated before: This is not the area you need to COMPLAIN to about this. We are just all knitters/crocheters along with a lot of other crafts people.


----------



## Anna3703 (Mar 4, 2012)

gypsie said:


> I agree. The squeaking wheel gets oiled!


Sometimes it gets replaced.....


----------



## Lil Kristie (Nov 25, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I started my 'crap' back in the 70's
> 
> I wanted yardage back on the skeins and got it
> I wanted 10 to 12" circular needles and we have them now
> ...


Soooo you think you, and you alone?, got yarn companies to put yardage on skeins, 10" and 12" inch circular needles, 3' and 4' DPNs. My don't we feel self important? I know for a fact, that you, and you alone, did not bring about the changes you claim to have brought about.

The old saying, "It takes a village......" is very apt here. To bring about any change in yarn, OR any industry, takes many, many people. Not just one lone person on rants.


----------



## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

Another couple of thoughts.

One of the reasons for poor quality downloads, and I have found this is particularly common on PinInterest, is the low resolution scans people post with.

The other is to look at the hundreds (now probably thousands) of free books and magazines available on the university of Arizona web site. 

Originally started as a resource for out of copyright books on weaving, it now includes many forms of lacemaking and related textile arts. All the books there are either out of copyright or have been donated for free distribution by the authors after they are out of print. 

I would be most surprised if you didn't find lots of Irish crochet patterns there.


----------



## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

I understand your FRUSTRATION. Having an attitude usually isn't a means to an end though.

I do not know where you are searching but like the girls said Ravelry? Yarn sites? KP is here to help as well.

I have never found that Japanese, Chinese French etc do not want to share. Pinterest has much foreign sharing.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I would challenge your answer Lil Christie but I am not telling you HOW


----------



## shulamit46 (Feb 23, 2013)

Instructions for Irish Crochet Lace for Beginners
SET THE PERFECT
THANKSGIVING TABLE
WATCH AND LEARN
by Elizabeth Hamel, Demand Media
Irish lace is some of the most beautiful and intricate crochet work. The technique was created during the Irish potato famine, when the Ursuline nuns taught the girls and women on the barren farms to crochet a delicate cloth from their rough material. They sold the lace to the upper class, who became known as "Lace Curtain Irish." Despite how difficult it looks as a whole, Irish lace is made from many very simple designs. Begin your Irish lace crocheting with this simple scarf.
Things You'll Need
Worsted weight yarn
Size K-10.5 crochet hook
Size I-9 crochet hook
Chain 29 stitches using the larger hook and two strands of yarn.
Secure a slipknot on the hook. Wrap the string around the hook and pull it through the loop of the slip knot. You have just chained one. Repeat this 28 times.
Create Row 1: Double crochet, chain 3, double crochet, all in the 6th chain from the hook. *Skip the next 3 chains, then double crochet, chain 3, double crochet in the next chain. Repeat from * pattern 4 times. Skip the next 2 chains. Double crochet in the last chain.
Create Row 2: Chain two and turn. Do 3 single crochet in the space where you chained 3 on the last row. *Single crochet in the space between the next 2 double crochet. Do 3 single crochet in the next chain 3 space. Repeat from * 4 more times. Single crochet in the top of the turning chain.
Create Row 3: Chain 3 and turn. Skip the first 2 single crochets. Double crochet, chain 3, double crochet in the next single chain. *Skip the next 3 single crochets. Double crochet, chain 3, double crochet in the next single chain. Repeat from * 4 more times. Double crochet in the chain 2 space of the last row.
Repeat rows 2 and 3 until your scarf is 57 inches long. End on a row 2. Do not fasten it off.
Work a Picot Edging: With right side facing, chain 4 (for picot); pivot to work in ends of rows along long edge of scarf, 3 single crochet in end of next row, single crochet in end of next single crochet row, chain 4, *2 single crochet in end of next row, single crochet in end of next single crochet row, chain 4; repeat from * to next corner space, 4 single crochet in corner space; pivot to work along opposite side of foundation chain, single crochet between next 2 double crochet , **3 single crochet in next chain-3 space, single crochet between next 2 double crochet; repeat from ** to next corner, work 4 single crochet in corner space; pivot to work in ends of rows along opposite long edge of scarf, single crochet in end of next row (in chain-2 space at row end), ***chain 4, 2 single crochet in end of next row, single crochet in end of next row; repeat from *** to last double crochet row, 3 single crochet, chain 4 in end of last double crochet row, chain 4, slip stitch in end of last row (in chain-2 space at row end). Fasten off.
Single Crochet: Insert the hook through the chain next to your hook. Wrap the yarn around the hook and pull it through the chain. Wrap the yarn again and pull it through both loops.
Double Crochet: Wrap the yarn. Insert the hook through the next chain. Wrap the yarn again and pull it through the chain. Wrap the yarn again and pull through two loops. Wrap the yarn again and pull it through the final two loops.
Make crochet flowers and leaves to further decorate your scarf.
Most Popular Video Workshops

All Day Beret

Rock 'N Roll Undies

Talisman Necklace

References
Chiff: Irish Lace--Beauty and Simplicity
Resources
LionBrand: Irish Lace Scarf Pattern by Nicky Epstein
Photo Credits
Lace in Box image by Yana from Fotolia.com
What's Trending

Crochet Towel Topper Instructions

How to Crochet Booties for Beginners

How to Crochet Chevron Blankets

Instructions to Crochet a Magic Ring

Easy Neck Scarves to Crochet

How to Crochet a Cardigan

Choosing Japanese Crochet Patterns

How to Crochet Hats With Ear Flaps


----------



## Daisybel (Nov 27, 2012)

andyjmcc said:


> It was a very good reply. I am interested in the lace. I have done what I call "air" crochet for years--Since I was 18 and shocked that there were no patterns from the 1800's available. I checked libraries and everything. I made a big stink about it and began to do my own patterns. The world caught up--they are available now.
> I lived the era of fighting for the LOST ARTS with others and won. Even doilies are now appreciated by many. I made them when no one cared to have them. I have never been able to find how to do bobbin lace though my family heritage lies in textiles and my dad had a slew of them. So many books are about the history of lace, etc. and not about doing it so it's nice to know it's out there--but the link didn't work.
> Copyright is always an issue. Many of us can make nearly everything we see if we want to and have been copied as well. I've seen my own attributed to others many a time--I just figure more people can do it. I see nothing wrong with patterns passed down throughout the years and compliment the spanish-speaking countries most in this regard. It's no different than recipes and copycat recipes.
> However, I do have a problem about 'shouting' but will do a separate post.


I learned to make bobbin lace about twenty five years ago. There were classes available and weekend courses and also lots of local lacemaking groups where the experienced lacemakers would help the beginners if there were no teachers available. This was in the UK: I don't know where you live. There are lots of books on how to make bobbin lace from beginners' level up to experienced level. Most of them have very clear diagrams. those books have been around for quite a long time. I learned from Pam Nottingham and have all her books but there are others available too.

Sorry to go on about this but with regard to bobbin lace, at least, you are wrong when you say there are no "how to" books.


----------



## Lil Kristie (Nov 25, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I would challenge your answer Lil Christie but I am not telling you HOW


So? Doesn't bother me. I very seldom use caps for words or whole sentences. Is this what you are referring to? I'm just stating something, as you said. Trying to make it easier for you to see what I have typed.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

yeah lacenbits I agree

Copyright is a sad subject area for most and I haven't seen much solution in that area. I've even had my own personal abbreviations and techniques show up in books--over 30 years ago at least. I only have one or two secret techniques left that I can think of and I'm waiting to see where they turn up--just for fun. I'm not as full of it as some may think.


----------



## hgayle (Aug 22, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I know what I'm doing and my request is not unreasonable
> 
> MY GOAL IS FOR A CHANGE TO OCCUR


Who do you think should be making the change?


----------



## Nanimal (Dec 14, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> Have always thought Irish crochet was Irish. Didn't it originate in Ireland? And what about knitted cables too? I don't doubt that other countries have them as well but....
> Can someone PLEASE tell me WHY I can only find these patterns in Russian and Chinese. I do not understand their language and find google translate LIMITED in these translations.
> I end up following BLURRY CHARTS with foreign symbols and my pinterest Language crochet cheat sheets are limited as well.
> Why aren't they SHARING like the rest of us...
> ...


http://www.allfreecrochet.com/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=allfreecrochet&kwid=CqxFYUTk&crid=261088841

Just gave you the link to some irish crochet...
as for getting your problem solved, I would suggest, instead of pushing for answers here, go directly to the source. Contact Google, or Bing Translate techs and get the party started there...no one at KP is going to be able to hhelp you with that


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Dear Andy,

Glad you are interested in Irish Lace and "Fisherman's" knits, but you have been aware for a long time (having worked in libraries) the "short comings" you are so frustrated with. Try learning lace making in the '70s when what old books were available WERE in "English" and picots were called purls and it only went down hill from there!!!! I would have loved to have flown to Belgium to learn bobbin lace instead of the sad English (American) directions I do have that leave a lot to be desired.

There was never a guarantee that the internet would "solve" all the issues of the world. Be thankful instead you can download and not have to worry about how your going to get a book back in time in Ukraine! I for one was most grateful Xerox was developed so I could make hard copies of old patterns of "Queen Anne Lace" (and so were my students) and they have yet to go "poof" in some Cloud mishap and can be passed on until the paper bores eat them up LOL. Like never since I've laminated them!!!

Speaking of your "general" FRUSTRATION take into account I'm posting this at 0630 while the rest of you have moved on to lunch-urgh! I would just once like to find a thrift type, or the equivalent to Replacements.com, that would be re-selling used dinnerware on the internet (since many of my patterns were made in France with many pieces NEVER being imported--when was the last time you used a tea cup or a soup plate?). Even my English (UK KPers) have been unable to help!

Just be grateful for all that is still "free" on here since that too is going to change. I would like to have all your posts held in a cloud until 1200 PST so I could at least get my two bits in :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:

Sincerely,
Gordon (in morning having recently lost my Third Cousin)


----------



## Gweneth 1946 (May 20, 2012)

gypsie said:


> 😣Omg! Someone has a bee in her bonnet this morning!😘


More like a family of bees.


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

gypsie said:


> 😣Omg! Someone has a bee in her bonnet this morning!😘


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Don't you love it?
 :-D :-D


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

disgo said:


> Dear Andy,
> 
> Glad you are interested in Irish Lace and "Fisherman's" knits, but you have been aware for a long time (having worked in libraries) the "short comings" you are so frustrated with. Try learning lace making in the '70s when what old books were available WERE in "English" and picots were called purls and it only went down hill from there!!!! I would have loved to have flown to Belgium to learn bobbin lace instead of the sad English (American) directions I do have that leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> Well, then you DO have access to all the patterns you will ever need! If you find one with poor charts and/or instructions, move along to the next one that IS satisfactory to suit your knitting tastes, skills, language, etcetera. This is why most of us spend time reading through patterns to see if we want to use them or not.
> 
> It is highly unreasonable to expect designers in other countries (you mentioned Russian and Chinese) to cater to EVERY knitter in EVERY country! That is extremely unrealistic... If this is what you are looking for, I think Galaxycraft has given you the appropriate answer.
> 
> ...


Well said.


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

andyjmcc said:


> yeah lacenbits I agree
> 
> Copyright is a sad subject area for most and I haven't seen much solution in that area. I've even had my own personal abbreviations and techniques show up in books--over 30 years ago at least. I only have one or two secret techniques left that I can think of and I'm waiting to see where they turn up--just for fun. I'm not as full of it as some may think.


First thing as a design student you would have (or should have) learned is there is NOTHING that is "original"--it just keeps going around so when its your turn to "think" you have created something "new".

My Second Cousin had your paranoia of people "stealing" his techniques (ironic since he stole another companies to "set out" on his own) and thus had his (and my last name) copyrighted (by his older brother who made it Productions--thus he ended up working for them) which means I am unable to use my own God given name in any form in any business--can't even get in "free" to his (Corporation's) parks so have never been. How sad is that--so be careful "What You Wish For Won't Come True"


----------



## norm13 (Jul 15, 2012)

gypsie said:


> 😣Omg! Someone has a bee in her bonnet this morning!😘


 :thumbup:


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

disgo
I am not a design student and do not have to be but I think what you say is basically true. I have seen many a copyright on a plain DC rectangle and more. I just figure they are new. I have a brother in plastics who once told me " the field is so new I can't even scratch my arse without making a memo" --that's the business world. I'm not in it thank God.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

but why would you call it 'paranoia'?


----------



## EBurk56622 (Oct 11, 2011)

Goodness Dear, you do sound miffed! I'd first of all try to calm down and take a chill pill. THEN, do things like go to websites others have suggested and search on Irish Crochet (note: I've already been to one link given that looks helpful.) Also there is DIY.com I think...of do it yourself type thiings on site that you can type in most anything for assistance. Not sure if what you want is there or not....merely a suggestion.
I don't know from your posts if you do know how to crochet and just looking for patterns or just that you are miffed because you can't EASILY find whatever it is you are wanting. 
First thing I'd do is go to search engine, type in Irish Crochet Patterns (if that is what you're wanting)...or go to UTube.com and type in how to Irish Crochet (if that is what you're wanting).


----------



## martina (Jun 24, 2012)

Some Irish crochet was done by men to pay their passage to U.S. It mimicked lace but was cheaper so became popular. Lots of the designs weren't written down as very many people ,my great grandparents included couldn't read. Some old patterns are difficult to understand in modern English. Added to the differences between various forms of English and this , to expect any totally universal translation is beyond what would be commercially viable for any translation programme. At least that is my opinion.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Pinterest is already picking up and I am finding more out there thanks.


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

andyjmcc said:


> disgo
> I am not a design student and do not have to be but I think what you say is basically true. I have seen many a copyright on a plain DC rectangle and more. I just figure they are new. I have a brother in plastics who once told me " the field is so new I can't even scratch my arse without making a memo" --that's the business world. I'm not in it thank God.


Be thankful your not since the first thing they did was "knock the creativity" out of you (too much "busy" work was the snide remark to be exact) but it had its purpose in making one scale back and focus on "simple and well executed" basic techniques. Had to explain to my sister what a "shadow hem" meant when she was intrigued by J. Lawrence's uneven white hem treatment she wore on David Letterman a few nights ago. Speaking of plastic, would you be aware of the polymers of polyester and nylon and which one was "tossed" since it didn't meet the "standards" of the silk fiber they were trying to duplicate for making parachutes during WWII?


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

It was stupid me once that had a client that spoke only "Filipino" once--so I grabbed my Phillipinean coworker to translate to only find out they have 64 dialects in their own country--YIKES!

By the way, it was due to them that I learned "chart" reading since when I would ask them what stitch or pattern they used their response was "Well my grandmother would do it like this"!


----------



## sexxysuee (May 22, 2012)

surely there are lots of pattern you can use otherwise create your own using stitch pattern i think it is unfair for you to assume that all countries should make there patterns in english and translations are awkward i admit but surely you should just buy a pattern you like in english just because a lot of english pattern are not free does not mean that you should complain when other countries give there's free it is unrealistic to expect this irish and cable patterns require a lot of work going into them and designers should be rewarded for there work not slated


----------



## Marilynf (Oct 7, 2011)

..and you expect a group of knitting forum people to do something to the internet so you have better translations?
I might re think posting this response and wish I hadn't but
give me a break.. search elsewhere. The world doesn't revolve around English.


----------



## crafty_grandma56 (Jul 26, 2011)

If you want better translations, go back to school instead of living on the beach and learn another language and make your contribution to improving the language on the internet instead of complaining about it!!! Being a translator or doing translations is a very well-paid occupation and are usually done by people that are well versed in their field and be fluent in the language as well as being savy in the topic...perhaps there aren't as many in knitting and crochet and definitely do not want to translate for free just to be chastised or insulted because they misinterpreted a word!


----------



## yarncrazy102 (Mar 16, 2013)

jennifer1954 said:


> Crochet originated in France, French nuns brought it to Ireland where they taught women to do it to feed their families during times of famine.


Then, those brilliant Irish women did a "variation on a theme" and created Irish Crochet. I'm not 100% sure but my Gram told me it was a form of lace without netting used as a base. Remember please that stitches are different in the UK and Europe than the stitches we use here in the States. A single crochet here is a double crochet in the UK. My Gram taught me "both". As for other countries and languages, it has always been difficult. Your best bet is to temper your frustration and continue your research on the "how to's". ;-)


----------



## Grama Guinn (Sep 12, 2013)

Irish crochet

Irish lace has always been an important part of the Irish needlework tradition. When times were hard, women had to find ways of supporting their family. This was particularly true during and after the great potato famine of the 1840s.[1] During that time period, most women could do needlework, so it was only a short step to lace-making. Irish Crochet and Tatting traveled particularly well as equipment needed was simple, a ball of cotton and a shuttle for Tatting and simple crochet hook and cotton for Irish Crochet lac
19th century Irish Crochet Lace

"Irish crochet" is a type of lace that has its origin in the famine years of the 19th century in Ireland Charity groups sought to revive the economy by teaching crochet lace technique at no charge to anyone willing to learn. This type of lace is characterized by separately crocheted motifs, which were later assembled into a mesh background. Other types of Irish crochet include Rosslea and Clones lace.

Irish Crochet Lace is made with a very fine steel crochet hook and fine crochet cotton or linen thread. It begins with an outline of the pattern on a piece of cloth. Each motif is then crocheted separately, using cotton cord for volume and shaping. The finished motifs are then basted (sewn with a loose stitch for temporary tacking) onto a cloth in the shape of the pattern. The motifs are then joined using chains and picots. When all the motifs have been joined together forming one piece of lace the basting stitch is removed from the back cloth revealing the completed lace.

Irish Crochet Lace, particularly Clones Lace, is experiencing a revival as modern designs are being created by Irish lace makers as well as others, such as Eastern European, Australian, Asian and North American designers. Máire Treanor organizes the annual Clones Lace Summer School in Clones, County Monaghan, as a gathering place for designers and students wishing to learn and preserve traditional patterns and share innovative ideas.


----------



## EBurk56622 (Oct 11, 2011)

Marilynf said:


> ..and you expect a group of knitting forum people to do something to the internet so you have better translations?
> I might re think posting this response and wish I hadn't but
> give me a break.. search elsewhere. The world doesn't revolve around English.


I so much agree. Nor does it revolve around the person who started this mess. Obviously, she/he has since found something on piinterest (or somewhere) that is satisfying (at least for awhile). Hooray on that! Now...on to more reasonable expectations from us here on KP. We are not computer programmers/translators/or a vast many other subjects one might become irked about and just want to blast someone. Many have been kind and supportive regardless of the language and non-conformity of KP's standards in the postings. To each of you who have helped the individual, you have my admiration. I cannot personally claim such toleration.


----------



## samlilypepper (May 17, 2011)

Yes, it is frustrating that so many beautiful crochet patterns are in Russian and Chinese... however, this is basically freeform crochet using Irish motifs... so get yourself a book about motifs and then look at freeform crochet instructions - after that, I'll bet you could use the charts and get through it.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Perhaps administration can tell me why cyber bullying is allowed crafty grandma , EBurke and more of you....and capitals are not! 
I'm done with this post. Nobody said you HAD to respond to it. It was a choice.


----------



## Parrishththgt (Aug 20, 2012)

gypsie said:


> 😣Omg! Someone has a bee in her bonnet this morning!😘


 :evil:


----------



## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

I think some of the Russian crochet is the most beautiful I have seen and would love to do the patterns. But until I learn Russian, which is not going to happen, I will just continue to drool. I just bought 2 Japanese quilt books, those measurements are easier for me to figure out in a foreign language!


----------



## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

There is a WONDERFUL magazine called , Piecework ,in the May /June 2012 issue they have a terrific article on Clones Lace . Clones is an area in Ireland where they made the MOST beautiful lace ,works of art really . There is Carrickmacross lace as well ,just marvellous work . In 1847 a Church of Ireland minister introduced lace making to the Irish according to this article . The women made money by making lace .
The author of the article is Maire Treanor and she has written a book about Irish lace .


----------



## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

that's interesting.


jennifer1954 said:


> Crochet originated in France, French nuns brought it to Ireland where they taught women to do it to feed their families during times of famine.


----------



## crafty_grandma56 (Jul 26, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> Perhaps administration can tell me why cyber bullying is allowed crafty grandma , EBurke and more of you....and capitals are not!
> I'm done with this post. Nobody said you HAD to respond to it. It was a choice.


?????? cyberbullying??? you are the one that made the comments get your head out of the sand - grow up like someone else said.....the world does NOT revolve around English!!!! If you are 'done' with this ....Amen to all of us!!!


----------



## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

Sorry I didn't see Grama Guinn's note before I wrote .
I admire the work of crochet lace makers SO MUCH .They should be as famous as Picasso !!! 
I used to buy bits and pieces all the time in the super thrift shops around here ,I have some really nice pieces but don't do much with them other than admire them .Is that enough


----------



## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

On another topic .Does anyone out there cut up silk and knit with it ?? In the past I have knitted some really lovely hats , because I have some really nice silk from used clothes I have bought in my fave thrift shops ,I ALWAYS have plenty of silk around . You can just cut strips and knit them in ,even the knots look nice and decorative .
I LOVE LUXURIOUS FABRIC ,it comes from growing up poor I suppose ,that and being creative )


----------



## sibergirl (May 4, 2011)

Google or Bing translations are not all that good. Why? It is very difficult to create good translation software. Your best bet would be to find someone who is bilingual in English and whatever language you are looking at, and hope they will help you out.

Your impatience is typically American (I am American, too). We want everything and we want it now. We are like children having tantrums. Just think of how the rest of the world must view our behavior.


----------



## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

Mary Mc Connell said:


> On another topic .Does anyone out there cut up silk and knit with it ?? In the past I have knitted some really lovely hats , because I have some really nice silk from used clothes I have bought in my fave thrift shops ,I ALWAYS have plenty of silk around . You can just cut strips and knit them in ,even the knots look nice and decorative .
> I LOVE LUXURIOUS FABRIC ,it comes from growing up poor I suppose ,that and being creative )


Sounds neat. Can you post pictures?


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

darowil said:


> But what is KP meant to do about it? I'm not at all convinced that that is what KP is about.
> Surely she is better yelling at the designers in these countries than KPers? or speaking nicely to computer programmers to see if what she wants can be developed.


How is this post any different than when people here complain about Michaels, or Hobby Lobby, and so forth? Do those posters expect KP to fix it? If you think designers and companies don't read the posts here you are quite mistaken. Remember when someone complained about Mary Maxim a year or so ago? A rep from the company joined so the company could respond to the complaint. Remember when Buffalo Yarn Company was the subject of a topic last year? Again someone, the owner, saw the post and responded. This is a huge international forum that offers major companies insight into the likes and dislikes and needs and pet peeves of thousands of knitters. It would be foolish on their part to ignore what is posted here. It's free market research for them! Believe me, if we get a topic on curly yarn and it goes to 30 pages of people wanting some, in a few months there will be a company offering curly yarn. This forum may seem small and intimate when we are posting and chatting to each other, but it isn't. Google a knitting topic and you will see multiple KP links popping up that anyone can read.

You don't like it because the OP used caps? Who cares? They aren't screaming in your ear, it's words on a computer. You can only be annoyed if you personally choose to be annoyed. There are many many people here who use caps multiple times every time they post. I focus on the message they are conveying, not how they typed it. They are trying to tell everyone (since you can't hear their voice, only read flat words) how important this word or words is to them. There aren't many ways to add inflection to your written words as compared to your spoken words.

I love this topic because I LOVE this crochet. If you haven't seen it, you are missing a treat. Even if you don't crochet, it is pure eye candy, lol! Personally, I am hoping some of the big Russian and Japanese magazine and pattern companies read this and consider selling their products in English (for me) or other languages (for my international friends here).

I don't understand all the animosity here. Recently we've had topics where certain people wrote very nasty hateful posts, wishing physical harm to other posters and their children. Only a few KPers challenged the behavior, and those posters were vilified by many here. This person expresses their frustration because there are so many beautiful patterns that they can't access (no one said steal, by the way. Most of these patterns are offered for free) because there are no translations available, and we have several pages of how bad the OP is.


----------



## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

So sorry I cannot post pics , I am not computer saavy at all, the moment I don't have anything I am working on maybe later .I am getting ready for a Craft Fair and it is taking all my attention.
I recycle sweaters into hats and mittens etc .Later I am going to turn my attention to knitting again .I have a very large stash at present .


----------



## kathy320 (Jul 29, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I have one more point to make and I will leave the group as soon as the administrator tells me to and how to resign.
> I feel it is highly and more ANTAGONISTIC of others to accuse one of shouting, yelling or whatever words are used by those who object to emphasis. I notice this on other websites as well and consider it an internet problem and invasion of my rights.
> I firmly believe the written word does not create SOUND and tone is also open to interpretation. I think this needs to be learned on a LARGER scale.
> It is also discrimination of the elderly and the poor of sight.
> ...


It's a convention of the medium. All of the conventions used in written language are ways that the writers convey information to readers. Thus, this mark -?- will convey to a reader of standard English that a question is being asked. We all know this convention, if we are literate in English, and no one argues about it.

For online writing in English, anything written all in caps indicates yelling. Anyone with poor eyesight can make onscreen print bigger using a mouse or keyboard, or using tablet gestures. However, ignoring this convention discriminates against people with severely limited vision, since text-to-speech software will render anything written entirely in caps at a significantly greater volume, i.e., yelling.

You have every right to communicate using this medium, but if you are going to do so, perhaps it is time for you to learn to translate your thoughts accurately into online text, rather than demanding that your readers figure out what you mean even when your meaning is inaccurately represented. Isn't that what you're asking the pattern publishers to do?

(Of course, if you are intending to yell at us, instead of the people you're actually angry with, then have at it. It's probably not the most effective way to elicit support, though.)


----------



## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

This person has been very clear in what she wants. She wants everything now, and she wants it free. 

There are books for sale, but she wants them free, and expects every library to carry exactly what she wants. And the entire global internet should kowtow to her demands. 

Copyrights be damned, she wants them immediately, and free.

She screams everything, but even though the rest of the world considers all caps shouting, she has decided that it does not apply to her, because she wants to do it. 

Why are people even trying to help this person?


----------



## gclemens (Feb 18, 2012)

check out this site:

http://irishcrochettogether.blogspot.com/p/history.html


----------



## kathy320 (Jul 29, 2011)

gclemens said:


> check out this site:
> 
> http://irishcrochettogether.blogspot.com/p/history.html


What a delightful blog! I have 3 books from Lacis. I love this craft, even nowadays, when I don't have the time I'd like to spend on it.

There are some gorgeous pieces here, and great commentary on technique. Thank you for sharing!


----------



## kathy320 (Jul 29, 2011)

laceandbits said:


> Another couple of thoughts.
> 
> One of the reasons for poor quality downloads, and I have found this is particularly common on PinInterest, is the low resolution scans people post with.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I didn't know about this resource.


----------



## dagmargrubaugh (May 10, 2011)

gypsie said:


> I agree. The squeaking wheel gets oiled!


Or it gets replaced.


----------



## knittinz (Feb 27, 2013)

We have enough problems deciphering 'English' patterns between us here on KP as many are open to interpretation or use uncommon language. I'm not sure how we'd get on if the Russians wanted, no, 'DEMANDED' that all our patterns be translated so that they could use them. For now, unless we are prepared to take a Chinese/Russian language course then we have to be content with the fact that they have something we don't.


----------



## LotusYoda (Sep 17, 2013)

Does no one here know how to use Google? What about the Antique Pattern Library that has lots and lots of English Language Irish Crochet Patterns. For cryin out loud, there are tons of Irish Crochet Patterns out there in English if you only learn how to do a proper search string. 
For instance:
http://www.crochetjungle.com/irish-crochet-motifs.php
http://irishcrochettogether.blogspot.com/p/antique-pattern-links.html
You will find the history of Irish crochet at the above link under "History" in the top drop down menu. I could go on and on but would rather just give you my search results, on Yahoo Search. 
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=ytff1-&p=english%20language%20irish%20crochet%20patterns&type=
If pages are slow to load perhaps it is your internet speed that is the problem.


----------



## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

Lil Kristie said:


> I totally agree AmyKnits.


mee-too!


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> I am not sure WHERE you are looking on the "Internet" for your patterns. I also cannot tell you the history of the crafts you mention, but I CAN tell you to look at Ravelry for patterns with cables and Irish Crochet.
> 
> I do a LOT of cable projects and Aran patterns and have NEVER come across the problems you mention. Ravelry has thousands of well-written cable or Aran patterns available with great charts. Thousands are available for free, but if you are willing to pay for a pattern, there are thousands more available to you.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

andyjmcc said:


> I am a Ravelry member and what I am referring to is all over the internet
> I find that Romania has been very generous with their patterns as well as Spanish speaking countries ...and Sweden and Norway and Austrailia too


I am sorry that you are having a bad day, but I don't believe there is any law that says every citizen of every country has to share with everyone.

There are plenty of these patterns in English posted on Ravelry. It seems that you could find something that would meet your needs.


----------



## martina (Jun 24, 2012)

Mary Mc Connell said:


> On another topic .Does anyone out there cut up silk and knit with it ?? In the past I have knitted some really lovely hats , because I have some really nice silk from used clothes I have bought in my fave thrift shops ,I ALWAYS have plenty of silk around . You can just cut strips and knit them in ,even the knots look nice and decorative .
> I LOVE LUXURIOUS FABRIC ,it comes from growing up poor I suppose ,that and being creative )


Never done that but it sounds like it works well.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

andyjmcc, have you tried Purple Kitty Crochet? They and Vintage Crochet specialize in the old patterns. Herrschner's carries many old style books, including Irish and Filet. Just because YOU couldn't bother to look very far doesn't mean they don't exist. And, please, leave the attitude on your side of the screen. We don't need it.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> Perhaps administration can tell me why cyber bullying is allowed crafty grandma , EBurke and more of you....and capitals are not!
> I'm done with this post. Nobody said you HAD to respond to it. It was a choice.


And just who started by yelling something totally unreasonable at the rest of us? Good grief! Guess I'll notify Admin about this little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead.


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

andyjmcc said:


> to anyone who finds this insulting....
> you are not EVERYONE in your country so do not take it personally
> and
> PLEASE
> ...


why not just have a hissy-fit?


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

StitchDesigner said:


> andyjmcc, have you tried Purple Kitty Crochet? They and Vintage Crochet specialize in the old patterns. Herrschner's carries many old style books, including Irish and Filet. Just because YOU couldn't bother to look very far doesn't mean they don't exist. And, please, leave the attitude on your side of the screen. We don't need it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

misellen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## iistok (Feb 14, 2011)

English is very complicated languages. many of the translation is not fluent. I believe there is no any foreign able to translate fluent in English.
special on Asian people, unless they are born in the English is their only/first language?..I found this youtube that show how to make Chinese knotting with out talking:





enjoy and hope will help a littler?
Ivy


----------



## pb54116 (Jun 27, 2011)

Speaking of Ravelry, I wish you didn't have to put in your password every time you go to their site! I have it written down somewhere but don't want to have to get up and find it every time I click on a link to Ravelry! I should send them an email, I guess.


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> How is this post any different than when people here complain about Michaels, or Hobby Lobby, and so forth?


I've spent ages writing a response looking through my responses etc and finally decided not to respond. I need to do my bit to stop the pointless discussion going further. If you really want an answer PM me.


----------



## knittinz (Feb 27, 2013)

pb54116 said:


> Speaking of Ravelry, I wish you didn't have to put in your password every time you go to their site! I have it written down somewhere but don't want to have to get up and find it every time I click on a link to Ravelry! I should send them an email, I guess.


My username and password are saved and so I don't have to remember it each time. There's a check box saying 'remember me.' I can never remember all the pass codes for the tons of sites I visit. :roll:


----------



## imashelefrat (May 16, 2013)

The internet is not a shop. In case you wonder, most of the world is not English speaking. In many contries, even the second language is not English. Do you want to write a translation to all the languages and not be paid for it? Be our guest, we will thank you. There is an open source of books that are in the public domain. A lot of them are in English.
www.antiquepatternlibrary.org search for your topic. If you have an old enough book, scan it and send them.


andyjmcc said:


> been there...done that and thanks but am referring to the internet and really want something DONE about it


----------



## 48barb (Mar 24, 2011)

storm in a tea cup!


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

A clear case of I want what I want when I want it.


----------



## 48barb (Mar 24, 2011)

Do we English speakers translate our patterns into Russian, Urdu, Japanese, Tamil, etc,etc. if not, why should we expect non English speakers to translate for us?


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

48barb said:


> storm in a tea cup!


Some people need to do some volunteer work or something. Anything to get a life.


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

blessedinMO said:


> A clear case of I want what I want when I want it.


LOL

It's all about me me me.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

I don't think she's here any more to read the comments.


----------



## samlilypepper (May 17, 2011)

I share your frustation in locating english instructions for some of the beautiful irish freeform crochet out there... 

However, the way you have phrased your post, and some of the capital letter sections are a bit insulting to some.

I hope that the next time you need to rant, which is ok, you will be a little softer in the way you express it.

I'm also noting that you have peppered several responses to people's comments throughout this post and they do not sound very polite or pleasant either!


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

inishowen said:


> I don't think she's here any more to read the comments.


I don't think so either. I think she is downstairs in her slave quarters looking for an interpreter, maybe?


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Nov 24, 13 / 08:56:33


inishowen said:


> I don't think she's here any more to read the comments.


Nov 24, 13 / 12:23:26


blessedinMO said:


> I don't think so either.
> I think she is downstairs in *her slave quarters* looking for an interpreter, maybe?


:shock: :shock:

From another thread ....Nov 24, 13 / 12:51:53


blessedinMO said:


> Our hope was that we could start this new day with new hope and *new respect for each other and leave the past to yesterday.*


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

blessedinMO said:


> I don't think so either. I think she is downstairs in her slave quarters looking for an interpreter, maybe?


OMG, now that was funny!!!


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

And what does that have to do with this thread?


----------



## albie (Jun 2, 2011)

knittinz said:


> My username and password are saved and so I don't have to remember it each time. There's a check box saying 'remember me.' I can never remember all the pass codes for the tons of sites I visit. :roll:


yesss!! you have to join but checking on the box to 'remember me' saves time and memory. go this way all the time.


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

Galaxy, what is your point?


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

blessedinMO said:


> I don't think so either. I think she is downstairs in her slave quarters looking for an interpreter, maybe?


This is an answer regarding the first post on this thread.


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

Our hope was that we could start this new day with new hope and new respect for each other and leave the past to yesterday.

This was written in reply to donnieK's plea to stop the bickering on that particular thread.

What is the problem, galaxy?


----------



## albie (Jun 2, 2011)

now ladies , hope this is all over with, we have all had our say and many of you i agree with, once in a great while i will CAP letters but that is only to catch your attention. if i would like to holler at anyone, i don't even bother to read the post. BYE THE WAY--HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO EVERYONE NEAR AND FAR!!!


----------



## imashelefrat (May 16, 2013)

If knitting causes so much grief, some other hobby should be taken.


----------



## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

disgo said:


> Dear Andy,
> Try learning lace making in the '70s when what old books were available WERE in "English" and picots were called purls and it only went down hill from there!!!! I would have loved to have flown to Belgium to learn bobbin lace ............


I did learn bobbin lace in the 70s from those books (no teacher at the time) and picots were only called purls in Honiton lace, where they still are called that. But they also call the workers 'runners', the passives 'downrights' and tallies are 'leadworks'. If you'd learnt in Belgium you would have needed to learn a new lace language too, as half stitch is 'lattice stitch' cloth stitch is 'linen stitch' and whole stitch is 'double stitch'. And you'd most likely have been taught in Flemish.

The main discrepancy between English and American books is that in the USA you very logically differentiate between cloth stitch and whole stitch, one being 3 moves, the other 4. For some illogical reason they are interchangeable here in the UK for the three movement stitch, and have 'and a twist' added to show the 4th movement.

I am doing my best to get it changed (I'm currently Chairman of The Lace Guild), but it is hard to change ingrained habits. However, although they are interchangeable in usage, in a UK book you would see one or the other, and it would be consistent throughout and you can can safely assume whichever it is, it refers to three moves. I have to carefully explain to my students that in books from the USA the two words have two meanings, so engage brain.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I quit after page 4 or 5 when I saw where this was going. I came back because many had some wonderful informative posts that I had not responded to. Yet, I found those who had misinterpreted MOST had continued with their attack. I don't believe that I rant. I do EMPHASIZE my point as much as possible. I don't believe in name-calling,sharp words, or an attempt to 'sweetly' get away with it. I have had to resort to being quite 'wordy' against my nature since soooooo many people can miss the point. =rant? 
It is easy to misinterpret a post now and then, and I understand that. We see it and do it all the time...myself included. And I always feel bad when I have done that. I find that I only need to 'rant' when I must cover ALL THE BASES of what others might think and I really don't like to. Perhaps I should have....
One major point that arises, is many people's view about CAPITAL LETTERS. I will never agree with the internet view of this and secretly I believe this view began with teens and then the ball ROLLED and became accepted by others as TRUTH. That is HOW these things happen. Apparently this does not include texting?
I thought KP was a discussion group about knitting and crochet topics. I thought that would include the advancement of the craft in all areas. I know for a fact, people (us regular ones), have only recently been able to get the FONTS necessary to write charted patterns. I am afraid to do this. I was told downloading fonts was a very bad idea related to hacking so I will wait til I know more. I was under the impression that technological advances had already BOOMED. I wanted the craft to be included. I have a habit of thinking 'we can send a man to the moon and can't do x' ????. When the UN was first created, the college majors related to language translation flourished. I did not know the world had failed in that area. ...still in it's infancy? The fields of Sociology saturated the market too. I don't do languages but I thought most people do. Google and Wiki have always allowed people to contribute to translations and create better ones. That's part of how it 'works'.
I thought I made it clear upfront not to be insulted or take it personally--and that I was looking for a CHANGE unless it had ALREADY happened. I was looking for an English translation-yes, but that does not make me a baby PIG. I actually thought this would include ALL MAJOR languages. Way way too many of you have MISSED the point entirely. I am not a me me me baby tantrum person. 
Perhaps if I had not CALLED myself as developing an 'attitude' I would not have met up with so many. Perhaps none of you have ever visited a website where secrecy prevailed, been hacked, or had porn popup. I've had aircraft hit my frequency before--and they weren't speaking my language either. This wasn't recent but you LEARN which websites do it....and then you know. I thought it safest not to mention them by name and I won't.....they KNOW who they are. These websites pertain to knitting and crochet.

When I started on KP, I did not introduce myself because I am not the real 'chummy' type but was required to fill in the fields. There are about 4 basic levels of expertise to choose from according to most patterns. I checked off expert because I began with expert level patterns over 40 years ago. I was immediately ATTACKED on KP as a new member just for filling out my profile form. The first post I saw was from someone who had checked out the newbie's profile and wrote something like 'so she doesn't even bother to introduce herself and thinks she knows everything......I was referred to as a 'know it all'. From that point on, I have had no problem stating what I KNOW and I do not have to tell others how or why I know it. What DO you people DO to those less strong than me........ 
I have been told that I can 'rock the boat' and not even know it. I have been told that I was made out of "fortified-steel" and that is fortunate. However, I have reported most of the cases of cyber-bullying I have found on this thread.


----------



## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

andyjmcc said:


> to anyone who finds this insulting....
> you are not EVERYONE in your country so do not take it personally
> and
> PLEASE
> ...


With all due respect, andyjmcc, I do not find this conducive to friendly interaction.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Incoming still isn't

I was even attacked for where I LIVE! This isn't right.
Makes it way to hard to focus reading on the topic!


----------



## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

misellen said:


> Some people need to do some volunteer work or something. Anything to get a life.


I volunteered for ages in our local hospital, and our church, and nothing pleases me more than being able to help others. there may come a time when I will benefit from others helping me and/or my husband, and I will be very grateful to receive their help.


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

I thought you were just being funny!..and that you felt safe among friends to be able to show your frustration. No worries. Any email or posting on the internet always means what the reader perceives it to mean. It can be a sensitive thing. I have been chastised many times from family and friends because they read tone and sarcasm into my emails that never existed, were not intended. I do believe that there are those who are more defensive and more sensitive than others. I think the best policy is to ignore and realize that we can agree to disagree. If someone misconstrues our post then perhaps we should just let it be, leave it alone, ignore....as they are entitled to their thoughts...even though it is hard to not respond.


----------



## groovy6 (Nov 22, 2012)

I totally get where you are coming from as I have wanted to do many stunning crochet patterns on the internet only to be disappointed with translation and unclear images. Western nation crochet seems to be a lot more plainer than the Russian ,Japanese, and other nations crochet. Keep perservering as I am sure there are some patterns out there with good instructions.


----------



## LunaDragon (Sep 8, 2012)

Sorry, I know I am late on adding to this subject. No I have not read all the postings, but I love all the same sites, Russian and every where else. I am not the copyright police, but I do have to say many countries have different laws on what is copyright infringements. Many of the patterns free on these different countries sites are not legal in the us. So please realize that they are not trying to share with say Americans as their laws are not the same and like I said many of these patterns are not free.


----------



## arlenecc (Jul 27, 2012)

I looked up a graphic showing language percentages world wide. I guess the patterns should be written in mandarin if you go by population numbers. second is Spanish.


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

I was talking to a Russian knitter tonight - and she was saying that Italy has the best designs etc in her opinion. I commented on this post (only the positive points) and she said when her English is better she might be able to translate some- so maybe in the future! I then told her that if she hangs round me long enough she will soon learn the English terminology- she is already making her way through the second pattern that I have introduced her to in the last few weeks.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

thanks


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

I think part of the problem in this thread is that people are reacting to their frustration with the trolls who have invaded us and set up a culture of aggression. When reading this I saw many posters I have always known to be kind and thoughtful go immediately on full attack, which is sad. Many of the replies I saw contained MANY caps themselves, from posters who historically use caps multiple times in practically every post they write, while complaining about the caps the OP used. 

I saw the posting as tongue in cheek, not arrogance. I could relate to her frustration because I feel it myself. The patterns are beautiful and so artistic! I have probably a hundred of them saved to my computer. As far as copyright issues, most of them that I have seen have been offered either by book or crochet thread companies, or the authors of the patterns themselves. 

This whole topic has been very sad to me, and quite an eye opener.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

darowil said:


> I was talking to a Russian knitter tonight - and she was saying that Italy has the best designs etc in her opinion. I commented on this post (only the positive points) and she said when her English is better she might be able to translate some- so maybe in the future! I then told her that if she hangs round me long enough she will soon learn the English terminology- she is already making her way through the second pattern that I have introduced her to in the last few weeks.


That would be wonderful! I think the foreign Eastern designers would find a huge market here in the West if they could translate their patterns in English as well as some of the other major European languages. We are becoming a global market, and I think the andyjmcc's dream will be a reality in the next few years. If I were selling patterns, I would be thrilled to be able to sell my products in any market I could. More markets = more $$.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I really want to thank those who have been helpful, informative and tried to be nice before I leave this thread forever. 
I have had to abandon my projects for a few days to clear my head. It's too hard to come back and reread in between the HITS.
For those of you who don't know, FACEBOOK informs a person when there are attempts to hunt you down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I really want to thank those who have been helpful, informative and tried to be nice before I leave this thread forever.
> I have had to abandon my projects for a few days to clear my head. It's too hard to come back and reread in between the HITS.
> For those of you who don't know, FACEBOOK informs a person when there are attempts to hunt you down.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying


Face it, this person doesn't even begin to have a clue. He/she posted very aggressively on here and is now getting ready to go after people for cyberbullying! Please Admin. Do something!


----------



## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

can't Admin do anything re this? there doesn't appear to be an answer........


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

meetoo said:


> can't Admin do anything re this? there doesn't appear to be an answer........


About what? ... Do what?
The poster was ranting and demanding immediate results to changes for the world which poster thought should occur "NOW". :wink: 
{shrugging shoulders}.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Face it, this person doesn't even begin to have a clue.
> He/she posted very aggressively on here and is now getting ready to go after people for cyberbullying!
> Please Admin. Do something!


Nothing to do until the poster actually does something to follow through with the perceived "threat" on this forum.

As I follow this thread, I see it as nothing but a tantrum.
tsk tsk.
All his/her doing from the start.
And to carry it over to another thread. :roll:


----------



## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

I guess we should just get on and ignore the posting of the upset lady and change the subject to something more positive! Like - what the heck to you get a Christmas present for someone who has everything? ... a donation to a good cause? ... in their name?


----------



## Daisybel (Nov 27, 2012)

meetoo said:


> I guess we should just get on and ignore the posting of the upset lady and change the subject to something more positive! Like - what the heck to you get a Christmas present for someone who has everything? ... a donation to a good cause? ... in their name?


How old is the person with everything? what are their interests? Maybe a subscription to sponsor a dog or a tiger or something where the chairty keeps the person informed and sends photos throughout the year? I know people who would be thrilled with something like that. Or a magazine subscription? Or a class? Here in London you can go on a day class to learn how to make macarons or chocolates or a wine tasting course or something like that, but I don't know if they have them elsewhere.


----------



## cilka (Sep 11, 2013)

I haven't read the whole thread as I don't have time right now but I would just like to say that I am a professional translator and interpreter (English is not my mother tongue). I learned English in primary and secondary school and then studied it at university (13 years in school altogether). I have translated thousands of pages and after all those years I am still learning. I really find it frustrating when people think that another language is simply changing the words. Each language has its own structure, grammar, logic and you have to learn all that. Computers are not able to do that and any online translator will just help you understand what the text is about but can not translate it correctly. Computer is a machine which is programmed and cannot think. the only way to have something translated correctly and well is to find a translator who will do it for you or learn the language. 
Sorry but this attitude really upsets me (the first post I mean).
Let's go back to knitting and crocheting - it's more relaxing. :-9
Cilka


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

cilka said:


> I haven't read the whole thread as I don't have time right now but I would just like to say that I am a professional translator and interpreter (English is not my mother tongue). I learned English in primary and secondary school and then studied it at university (13 years in school altogether). I have translated thousands of pages and after all those years I am still learning. I really find it frustrating when people think that another language is simply changing the words. Each language has its own structure, grammar, logic and you have to learn all that. Computers are not able to do that and any online translator will just help you understand what the text is about but can not translate it correctly. Computer is a machine which is programmed and cannot think. the only way to have something translated correctly and well is to find a translator who will do it for you or learn the language.
> Sorry but this attitude really upsets me (the first post I mean).
> Let's go back to knitting and crocheting - it's more relaxing. :-9
> Cilka


 :thumbup:


----------



## crafty_grandma56 (Jul 26, 2011)

cilka said:


> I haven't read the whole thread as I don't have time right now but I would just like to say that I am a professional translator and interpreter (English is not my mother tongue). I learned English in primary and secondary school and then studied it at university (13 years in school altogether). I have translated thousands of pages and after all those years I am still learning. I really find it frustrating when people think that another language is simply changing the words. Each language has its own structure, grammar, logic and you have to learn all that. Computers are not able to do that and any online translator will just help you understand what the text is about but can not translate it correctly. Computer is a machine which is programmed and cannot think. the only way to have something translated correctly and well is to find a translator who will do it for you or learn the language.
> Sorry but this attitude really upsets me (the first post I mean).
> Let's go back to knitting and crocheting - it's more relaxing. :-9
> Cilka


Amen to that!!! I worked with translators - I did the research for/with them, coordinating the translations, did translations that were always verified - translation is an art of it's own and definitely isn't as easy as it seems. After working with translators, I gained a new respect for them. On top of the language they must be very informed in the subject, and are usually very well travelled, knowledgeable and interesting people.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

cilka said:


> I haven't read the whole thread as I don't have time right now but I would just like to say that I am a professional translator and interpreter (English is not my mother tongue). I learned English in primary and secondary school and then studied it at university (13 years in school altogether). I have translated thousands of pages and after all those years I am still learning. I really find it frustrating when people think that another language is simply changing the words. Each language has its own structure, grammar, logic and you have to learn all that. Computers are not able to do that and any online translator will just help you understand what the text is about but can not translate it correctly. Computer is a machine which is programmed and cannot think. the only way to have something translated correctly and well is to find a translator who will do it for you or learn the language.
> Sorry but this attitude really upsets me (the first post I mean).
> Let's go back to knitting and crocheting - it's more relaxing. :-9
> Cilka


An old family friend teaches English to Italian merchant ship captains. It involves a lot of highly specialized terminology. She is extremely well paid.

And, yes, Admin can do something about the original poster. It's called blocking.


----------



## cilka (Sep 11, 2013)

Thank you for your support.
Happy knitting and crocheting!
Cilka


----------



## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

What should have been blocked are all the ridiculous comments on the post which should have just been ignored, problem solved. 12 pages of rants are 12 pages too many. Give your fingers and emotions a rest!


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Mary. I'm sorry, the OP really ticked off a lot of people on here. He/she wasn't just ranting, the OP was screaming at us. Then the OP has had the audacity to claim we are stalking him/her. The poster seems like a troll to me. I hope Admin blocked him/her because all this person wants is to cause trouble.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

MaryE-B said:


> *What should have been blocked are all the ridiculous comments on the post which should have just been ignored, problem solved. *
> 12 pages of rants are 12 pages too many.
> Give your fingers and emotions a rest!


Extreme Censorship?? I think not.

Who's posts are your referring to?
You make it sound as if there are many posts that appear ridiculous "To You". 
Well they may be completely understandable to others.

There are many, many worse topics that go on for 50 -100+ pages........
And your complaint is on 12 pages?
Don't read....don't comment.........your choice.
Final action..........Unwatch.....Problem Solved as you say.

Besides, this topic was quiet for 2 days..........
You just HAD to wake it up again. :roll:


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

meetoo said:


> I guess we should just get on and ignore the posting of the upset lady and change the subject to something more positive! Like - what the heck to you get a Christmas present for someone who has everything? ... a donation to a good cause? ... in their name?


Yes!


----------



## debby93286 (Apr 4, 2011)

hi, i know it's a little last getting back to you, I know Just how you feel !!, and in reading you're post i can tell you have not found a answer. if you please let me know...if not i might have something to help with the translation..i was looking for a pattern and in 2012 Spring and Summer of my CROCHET! i found a two part "Introduction To Japanese Crochet.It's a total of 7 pages. I found it pretty helpful,as i bought a Irish Crochet Scarf Pattern years ago. E-mail back and i will send you a copy it also has a lot of reference books to read and sites and videos.Hope i can help,or maybe we can share what we have with each other for a better understanding........Later


----------



## Grandmaknitstoo (Jul 6, 2011)

What you are demanding is a fix to a problem you have focused on and others have avoided, take a hint and find your own solution, you have recieved some helpful tips here. Make a way where there seems to be no way Success is all in how you approach a problem, and what YOU are willing to do about it.


----------



## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

Daisybel said:


> How old is the person with everything? what are their interests? Maybe a subscription to sponsor a dog or a tiger or something where the chairty keeps the person informed and sends photos throughout the year? I know people who would be thrilled with something like that. Or a magazine subscription? Or a class? Here in London you can go on a day class to learn how to make macarons or chocolates or a wine tasting course or something like that, but I don't know if they have them elsewhere.


I just got back to this - been sick with flu bug, then husband fell and hurt his hip, spent 6 hrs in Emerg, but is better. I gave my dear friend a Spa gift certificate and she was thrilled to bits. must keep this in mind for next year for another "hard to please" person. thank you for the suggestions!


----------

