# P.O.V. Liberal #3



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't have enough time to watch them all, but sometimes I see Chris. I'm not big on Chris Matthews or Reverend Al.
> 
> Did I just quote my own reply??. Didn't mean to do that, but you got the message.


I am not big on Chris Matthews either. He interrupts too much and talks over his guests so you can't hear either one of them. I didn't use to like the Rev, but I think he has mellowed a lot. He is one to always stress non violence and seems to talk common sense. He just always seems like he is yelling which is kind annoying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes indeed. thanks for responding.



alcameron said:


> I don't have enough time to watch them all, but sometimes I see Chris. I'm not big on Chris Matthews or Reverend Al.
> 
> Did I just quote my own reply??. Didn't mean to do that, but you got the message.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Undergrad at Princeton and law school at Harvard. 
Goodness, how sad. I guess they will take anyone with a few dollars these days.



alcameron said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't believe Ted Cruz graduated from Harvard. I demand he show his diploma!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The Rev is definitely not as polished with a teleprompter as the others. I know he has the old baggage about Tawana Brawley controversy hanging around still. 
He also suffers from lack of education as so many older African Americans do. (That's right, the problems are not just in the south,all of you who don't know how to read that even when it is said 10 times over.)

I guess I don't like any of them all the time. Sometimes I feel that they are overexplaining things, and the redundancy is annoying. FGS, do different topics, folks in that 6 hour period. LOL 
They are certainly better than other reality TV.



NJG said:


> I am not big on Chris Matthews either. He interrupts too much and talks over his guests so you can't hear either one of them. I didn't use to like the Rev, but I think he has mellowed a lot. He is one to always stress non violence and seems to talk common sense. He just always seems like he is yelling which is kind annoying.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It would be so helpful if everyone would identify where they hear/see their favorites. TV? Cable? Station? Radio? Newspaper?



alcameron said:


> Yes. Unreal!
> I love Rachel, too, and wish I were half as bright as she. Of course, I have a steady diet with Ed Schultz, Rachel, and Lawrence.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Those folks would all be employed by Universal Studios, I love that theme park so much better than Disney. 
They are on cable, damemary.



damemary said:


> It would be so helpful if everyone would identify where they hear/see their favorites. TV? Cable? Station? Radio? Newspaper?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I want to see his report cards. Someone has to be in the bottom quarter of the class.



alcameron said:


> I'm sorry, but I can't believe Ted Cruz graduated from Harvard. I demand he show his diploma!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

HAHHA, we could make that our ridiculous battle cry to match the calls for President Obama's documents. 
I WANT his GPA... the ORIGINAL!



damemary said:


> I want to see his report cards. Someone has to be in the bottom quarter of the class.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what I was afraid of. No cable here. Thanks.



jelun2 said:


> Those folks would all be employed by Universal Studios, I love that theme park so much better than Disney.
> They are on cable, damemary.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're a smart cookie jelun. That's what I was thinking. New battle cry.



jelun2 said:


> HAHHA, we could make that our ridiculous battle cry to match the calls for President Obama's documents.
> I WANT his GPA... the ORIGINAL!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Naptime.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> HAHHA, we could make that our ridiculous battle cry to match the calls for President Obama's documents.
> I WANT his GPA... the ORIGINAL!


I know--let's start a petition!

Bye for now. Soup's on!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just for your records, I have never said Obama is a Muslim, or that he was not a US citizen. Nor have I said anyone that doesn't agree with me is evil, or that you support criminals over victims, that is all yours. It sounds more like liberal talking points than anything else, so let's not go there.


Then please explain what you meant by the following, which I was responding to:



soloweygirl said:


> Why don't you prove that this is made up? *Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim.* I'll wait.


This long message is making me very sleepy. Good night.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, I made a harsh reply to Poor Purl. I apologize.


Thank you. You know how to be gracious.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi Purl. Seems like everyone is getting sleepy and some are a bit cranky on some of the other threads. I think I am going to say goodnight and hope to see you tomorrow. Sleep well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Purl. Seems like everyone is getting sleepy and some are a bit cranky on some of the other threads. I think I am going to say goodnight and hope to see you tomorrow. Sleep well.


Sweet dreams, Cheeky Blighter. I like your avatar. See you soon.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

September 26, 2013

THE HUFFPOST

Ted Cruz Threatens Troops, Veterans, and Their Families
Posted: 09/25/2013 1:48 pm
Follow
Barack Obama , Joe Biden , Tea Party, Veterans, Ted Cruz, Obamacare, Ted Cruz Obamacare, Troops, Votevets, Politics News


For all the bluster from Senator Ted Cruz about the false reasons to fear Obamacare, the irony is that veterans should fear him and his Tea Party cohorts in the House of Representatives. After all, they're on a course to block troops and veterans from the health care they're owed.

First, let's examine Obamacare and its effect on veterans. In short, it's a good deal, especially for families of veterans.

Among veterans, there are three ways they could get health care. First, many retired service members, and their families, qualify for TRICARE, the military's health care program. It allows them to get care at any doctor or facility in the TRICARE network. Second, there is care from the Department of Veterans Affairs, for all veterans for five years after their deployment (any service connected issues are cared for by the VA past that). Veterans still can get VA care if they make under a certain amount. However, VA care doesn't extend to a veteran's family. Third, there's the private insurance system.

For those who have TRICARE, or get VA care, they're considered covered under Obamacare's individual mandate. But, there are over 1 million veterans who have no coverage, and nearly as many veteran families. Many veterans make too much to qualify for VA care, or TRICARE and VA facilities are just too far away for that to be a reasonable choice. For their families, they're uninsured for the any of the many reasons any other American isn't insured -- prohibitive cost being the most likely reason.

It's for them -- the uncovered veterans and their families -- that Obamacare offers a lifeline. For the first time, possibly in their lives, they'll be able to afford coverage through the eminently affordable Health Insurance Marketplace, which Obamacare sets up. 

For Guard and Reserve, in particular, who don't have service connected issues, Obamacare is huge. If they haven't deployed, they're not covered by care at the VA, and only sometimes have access to TRICARE. They mostly depend on employer coverage. For many of them, they'll get it under Obamacare. And if their employer has an exemption, the Guardsman or Reservist will be able to get insurance in the marketplace, for them and their family, with subsidies.

And so, Obamacare is, as Joe Biden called it, a "B.F.D." for veterans and their families.

That brings us back to Ted Cruz, and his Tea Party allies in the House. They're now trying to block veterans and their families from getting affordable health insurance.

And if they don't get their way? They'll shut down the government.

That would be an unmitigated disaster, in terms of health care for those troops and veterans who actually do have it right now through the Department of Defense or VA. We can look at past government shutdowns to know what will happen. In the shutdown of 1995, the Department of Defense ordered medical facilities to cease routine appointments, and even in some cases delayed surgeries for troops and veterans. About 250,000 civilian workers went home, many of whom worked at medical centers at military installations. While VA Centers will remain open and continue to provide services, medical claims could be delayed, as civilian workers are sent home, and the Board of Appeals for claims will issue no decisions during a shutdown.

In short, the two options being offered up by Ted Cruz and the Tea Party -- defunding Obamacare or shutting down the government -- only serves to hurt the health of troops and veterans, and their families.

In a week where they also moved to kick 170,000 veterans off food stamps, I can't say I'm surprised.



Follow Jon Soltz on Twitter: www.twitter.com/jonsoltz


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> September 26, 2013
> 
> THE HUFFPOST
> 
> ...


I hope people wake up and see what this guy is doing! Thanks for posting!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Howard FinemanBecome 
[email protected]

John Kerry: Obama Can Bomb Assad Even If Congress Votes No
Posted: 09/06/2013 3:10 pm EDT | Updated: 09/25/2013 3:44 pm EDT

Syria, John Kerry War, Syria Attack, Syria War 2013, Politics News
WASHINGTON -- Even as he beseeches former colleagues in Congress to vote for President Barack Obamas plan to bomb Syria, Secretary of State John Kerry made it clear in an interview with The Huffington Post that he thinks the president has the right to order air strikes in the face of congressional disapproval.

If that scenario were to materialize -- a bombing campaign after a "no" vote -- the result would almost certainly be an impeachment drive in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives.

Citing their role as commander-in-chief, U.S. presidents have assumed ever-greater latitude in ordering apparent acts of war without obtaining Congress permission, as the letter of the Constitution requires. Firing cruise missiles and/or dropping bombs on the military infrastructure of Syrian President Bashar Assads regime would be an act of war, according to Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- especially since the United States would not be enforcing a United Nations-sanctioned enforcement mission.

At first, as evidence mounted that Assad had used chemical weapons on his own people in the midst of a two-year-old civil war, Obama tentatively decided to follow his recent predecessors and take action on his own, without seeking support in a congressional vote. Then last week the president surprised his own aides (including Kerry) and changed his mind, apparently because he lacked much international support and because he wanted to spread the domestic political risk.

But even though Obama is now seeking Congress support, Kerry insisted that the president is not bound by law to stand down should his plan be rejected.

Hadnt the president in essence ceded that leeway by coming to Congress? I asked the secretary of state.

The answer, he said, was no.

Constitutionally, every president, Republican and Democrat alike, has always reserved to the presidency, to the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the right to make a decision with respect to American security, Kerry said during an interview in his State Department reception room on Thursday.

Bill Clinton went to Kosovo over the objections of many people and saved lives and managed to make peace because he did something that was critical at the time. Many presidents have done that. Reagan did it. Bush did it. A lot of presidents have made a decision that they have to protect the nation.

Now. I cant tell you what judgment the president will make if, in three weeks, Bashar Assad uses chemical weapons again. But the president reserves the right in the presidency to respond as appropriate to protect the security of our nation.

The constitutional question aside, wouldnt the president risk a political firestorm if he were to move ahead in the face of a no vote, should one come to pass?

I am not going to speculate about it because I hope Congress will exercise its best judgment, Kerry said, by supporting the president's unbelievably limited and tailored plan.

Tailored though the plan may be, Kerry offered a rather murky, trust us explanation for how the Obama administration could obliterate Assads chemical weapons delivery systems without risking dispersal of the weapons themselves into even worse hands.

How can it be done? Kerry was asked.

By being very thoughtful in your selection of what you do, he replied, so that you do not undo his ability to be able to maintain and guard the actual stockpiles. Stockpiles are spread out in various parts of the country.

And we know where they are. And the United States is obviously going to be very careful not to do something that makes matters worse. You know, weve sat around and talked through all of those issues.

During a 24-minute interview, Kerry reiterated the themes and points he has been pressing, with limited success, in public and behind closed doors in Congress.

The essence: that evidence of Assads perfidious use of chemical weapons is clear beyond a reasonable doubt; that the mission to punish him and degrade his chemical weapons capability is narrowly targeted; that the material will not fall into the wrong hands; that there is a greater risk of the spread of such weapons if the U.S. does not act; that there is a critical mass of trustworthy opposition forces such that al-Qaeda would not take over if Assad were forced out; that even though the U.S. wants Assad gone, the U.S. will not put ground troops in Syria for any purpose.

Kerry argued that his own history as an anti-war Vietnam War veteran has given him a deep skepticism of military intelligence and military solutions, which, in his view, makes him a more credible advocate now.

But at times during the interview, the distant echo of Vietnam-era rationales and rationalizations -- domino theories, fears of being seen as a weak paper tiger, assurances that we would avoid local civil wars and their military quagmires -- was deafening.

Still, the secretary of state did his best to make the case.

Here is the full transcript:

Russian President Vladimir Putin said recently that al-Qaeda is the main "military echelon" of the opposition in Syria. Was he wrong?
Was he wrong about that? Yeah. Hes dead wrong. Are they engaged? Yes. Are they fighting on the ground? Yes. But the opposition has far more people on the ground -- far more -- than all the bad guy groups put together. There are about 11 bad guy groups, of which al-Nusra is one. Youve got al-Qaeda in Iraq. Youve got [Jund] al-Sham. Youve got a group of them that are very bad actors. But the vast majority of the opposition -- which is not getting any assistance through any of the other people, which is separate and separated -- they are not plotting with them, they are not planning with them, there is no joint command with them.

You said that only 15 to 25 percent of the opposition are "bad guys." Where did you get that figure?
It comes from our intel community. It comes from Ambassador Robert Ford, who is deeply engaged and very knowledgeable about it. It comes from our own people on the ground.

But the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency recently expressed concern that the most radical elements could take over in Syria, and some stories of opposition brutality support that view.
I agree with that. We are all concerned about that. That is a legitimate concern. It is one of the concerns, actually, where Russia and the United States have something in common. We share a concern about the increase of the radicals. My concern is that if we dont hold Saddam -- I mean Bashar al-Assad ...

Its an understandable Freudian slip.
No, no, no. If we dont hold Bashar al-Assad responsible for the use of chemical weapons; if the United States doesnt step up, with allies, in order to assert this international norm with respect to the prohibition on the use of chemical weapons; if we dont step up to do that, I believe what will happen is that the United States will lose the current influence that we have -- which has helped the moderate opposition to separate and make sure that assistance is not going to the bad guys and that they are operating independently of them. What I fear is that the support that has been directed appropriately, in the way that it is now, will stop. They will stop listening. They wont feel that the United States needs to be listened to. Any leverage we have for behavior will be gone. And you will see vast amounts of money start pouring in to the worst actors.

Isn't it equally plausible that the one thing that could give credibility, clout and forward momentum to the most radical elements would be if the U.S. gets involved militarily?
Ill tell you why I dont believe that. I dont believe that because of a couple of things. Number one, the world condemns the use of chemical weapons, including Iran and Russia, both of whom are supporting Assad. And I believe that they, in fact, will be limited in their ability to mobilize people because the evidence will become more clear as we go through the debate, because we will not act alone, we will act in concert with other countries. Already 80 countries have condemned the use of chemical weapons, and 34 countries have said that if it is proven the Assad regime did this, action should be taken. Now there may be different kinds of action 

Do you include Russia in that number?
Russia actually has said that they wouldnt rule out taking action if it were proven, but I do not count them in that number. Putin actually said something similar the other day. And they are in double digits now, the number of countries that are specifically prepared to take action with the United States -- thats right now. I believe that will grow as more evidence emerges.

You talk to Putin. You are close to Sergei Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister. What is your answer to Putin when he calls you a liar on the global stage?
Well, Lavrov talked to me today [Thursday] and told me very clearly Putin had a -- this is what Lavrov said -- that apparently there was some translation that was not correct and that he understands ... Look things happen in this process, and I am not going to get personal about it.

Did they call you or did you call them?
We had a call that was scheduled and we are continuing to work on the question of a political settlement.

Did Lavrov apologize on behalf of Putin to you?
I dont want to get into personal conversations. I am very comfortable we need to move on to bigger issues.

The fact is, he said your information was wrong and you knew it.
Well, that is incorrect. There are 18 different references in my testimony yesterday to the fact that al-Qaeda is on the ground and operating and that they are bad guys and that part of our concern is their presence there. I dont want to dwell on that.

This is what your readers and listeners and others need to understand.

I am someone who is deeply informed by war. Personally, having fought in one I thought was a mistake, that was bad decision-making, where people didnt share all the truth. I know about another war, based on evidence that was presented in the Senate, and it was faulty evidence, and then a war took place. And as an official now, in a position to make these choices and to advise a president with respect to these choices, both [Defense] Secretary [Chuck] Hagel and I are absolutely deeply committed to respecting the history we have lived. We are not going to put in front of the American people evidence that has not been properly scrubbed and vetted, that we dont trust and believe. This evidence, we believe, is overwhelming beyond a reasonable doubt, that Bashar al-Assad gassed his own people, that the regime ordered this, and that they are responsible for what happened.

If that is the case, why is there such widespread opposition to U.S. military action here and, according to our Huffington Post global survey, around the world?
Because a lot of people -- and I understand this and I am very sympathetic to it, it is not a small deal -- think of Iraq or they think of Afghanistan again, the longest war in our history. And people think, "Oh my God, we are getting into another war." And thats the automatic reflex. People think the United States is going to unilaterally ... And I understand people who dont trust our intelligence. How could I not, after Iraq? How could anybody not? So thats why we have taken such pains to scrub the intelligence, to share it, to declassify, to put things out there, and we will do more.

Because I want people to understand from this interview and others that this is not Iraq, this will not be Iraq. This is not Afghanistan and will not be. This is not Libya and will not be. There is no similarity between any of those other things and what the president is asking Congress to permit him to do, which is to enforce the norm with respect to the prohibition on use of chemical weapons, to degrade Assads ability to use those weapons and send the message.

If we dont, after all that has been said about the prohibition for almost 100 years; if the world hears the United States say, This is unacceptable -- and by the way, its not President Obamas red line, its a global red line, it is the multilateral community that has drawn this line -- if we dont enforce that, Assad will say to himself, I am free to use all the gas I want.

If that is so clear, where is the U.N., where is NATO, where is the Arab League?
The Arab League has condemned Assad for its use and issued a call to take action.

Military action?
They called for action. They left it open for people to define it. But read between the lines. You have some countries -- Lebanon, Iraq  who dont want to do it.

What about the idea that Saudi Arabia will financially support this?
A number of Arab countries are 100 percent prepared to be part of this action. There are Arab countries prepared to be part of this action if it has to take place.

Where is the U.N.? Why isn't the U.N. speaking on this?
Well, the United Nations will speak, can speak, but the U.N. has decided, in their mandate to their inspectors, that they will not assign culpability. So when the U.N. speaks, they will tell us what we know: that Assad used these materials. It was gas.

Yes, but why wouldn't you want to get a vote from the U.N. to support what the president is proposing to do?
Weve already seen that Russia ... We tried to pass a simple condemnation of the use of gas, without any citing of who did it, and the Russians said no. The Russians have already vetoed the previous efforts to hold Assad accountable. So the point is, if we are going to have meaning here, we need to bring people together who are prepared to do that. Now I am all for the United Nations to do this if the Security Council is not going to veto it.

Senator Ed Markey, a Democrat who now holds your Massachusetts Senate seat, voted "present" on the president's plan. Your reaction?
Ive talked to him, and he indicated to me that he wanted an opportunity to read the full classified report. And if that is what he needs in order to make a decision, I welcome it. And I will talk to him again.

I've talked to several senators and they asked me to assure the American people that we are not about to enter another military quagmire. But how can you give an ironclad assurance to the American people? Things happen in war. It's more complicated than a simple assurance.
It is not more complicated, because the president of the United States and all of his team are absolutely committed that what we are doing is enforcing the norm with respect to the non-use of chemical weapons.

But if we "degrade" the structure for controlling those weapons, how do we keep them from getting into the wrong hands without some kind of on-the-ground involvement?
Let me give you the reverse question. If we dont send this message to Assad that this should not be used, and if we dont strengthen the opposition over a period of time through the support that the world is giving to them, and the United States backs off of sending this message, there is a much greater likelihood that those weapons will fall into the hands of the bad guys and a much greater likelihood that you will have a lot more of them, because those are the people who are going to get the support to remove Assad.

But the specific question is, if you degrade the delivery systems, how do you keep those materials from getting into the wrong hands?
By being very thoughtful in your selection of what you do, so that you do not undo his ability to be able to maintain and guard the actual stockpiles. Stockpiles are spread out in various parts of the country. And we know where they are. And the United States is obviously going to be very careful not to do something that makes matters worse. You know, weve sat around and talked through all of those issues.

I want to assure everybody that we have no intention, nor will we, put American boots on the ground or get sucked into a quagmire. We are not -- I repeat -- we are not considering taking over or assuming responsibility for their civil war. They will fight their own civil war. We may help them, as we have decided to do in response to the earlier use of chemical weapons. The president ratcheted up the assistance to the opposition, and the opposition is there and prepared to fight. They havent asked us to come in and fight. They will fight. And we will not put American boots on the ground nor get directly involved in a civil war.

The resolution adopted by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee bars the use of forces "on the ground in Syria for the purpose of combat operations." Does that mean that they could be there for non-combat purposes?
There will be no American forces on the ground for any purpose.

Well, why does it say "for combat operations"?
I have no idea.

Another concern is that the resolution requires the administration to plan and put in place ways to "change the momentum on the battlefield." That sounds like military involvement.
Thats something that the Senate and the House have already supported. They are supporting providing assistance to the opposition.

That is where the quagmire concern is.
Let me be very clear: No. No American troops are going to get involved in fighting or combat or crossing into Syria. Nobody is envisioning that. That [language] talks about how you provide the support, whether its training or meals or medical equipment or radios or other things, which is being provided to the opposition. That everybody knows is happening. And that support is what he is talking about increasing, to increase their capacity to carry the fight themselves. There is no discussion whatsoever -- even [Senator] John McCain, he wants the prohibition against American troops. Nobody is talking about American troops. Its critical for your readers and everyone else to understand that.

The instant people hear military action in Syria, they think, they think, "OK, here we go again. Its Iraq." And what we have to make crystal clear to everybody is that nobody wants that and nobody is talking about allowing some back door or slide-in or slippery slope that gets you there. That will not happen.

But things happen in war. What if the Syrians retaliate? What if Hezbollah gets a hold of something?
Those are all threats that we face at the time we would have to face them. What if we dont pass this and Hezbollah gets a hold of them? The president is going to have to face that decision. What happens if we dont do this, and as a result Assad thinks he has impunity to use these weapons and he uses them in a month? And it is in a huge amount? Is everybody in America going to sit back and say, "Oh my God, we didnt expect that"? Or who is responsible for that? Is America going to assume responsibility for stepping back, when this is something the world has fought to enforce for almost 100 years?

I ask everybody to go back and look at the images of what happened in World War I. And why people decided, 189 nations or so. Were not going to let all that happen again. Well, it is happening again.

And if we dont stand up and stop it, what happens to Israel in the future when Hezbollah has these weapons? What happens for Iran when they decide America is a paper tiger, that we are not going to stand up and defend our word? So they go ahead and build their nuclear weapon. And the world is in a greater clash. This is important to the continuum of the choices we face in foreign policy. Your word is critical. If you dont stand up for the things you say are important -- like a multilateral international treaty with respect to the use of chemical weapons -- you are walking away from a global and critical responsibility.

Having chosen to ask Congress to support his plan to punish Assad, hasn't the president bound himself to follow Congress' decision, even if it's no?
Constitutionally, every president, Republican and Democrat alike, has always reserved to the presidency, to the commander-in-chief of the armed forces, the right to make a decision with respect to American security.

Bill Clinton went to Kosovo over the objections of many people and saved lives and managed to make peace because he did something that was critical at the time Many presidents have done that. Reagan did it. Bush did it. A lot of presidents have made a decision that they have to protect the nation.

Now I cant tell you what judgment the president will make if, in three weeks, Bashar Assad uses chemical weapons again. He reserves the right in the presidency to respond as appropriate to protect the security of our nation.

No matter how the Congress votes?
To protect the security of our nation, the president has the power to make the choice to protect our country.

If Congress votes this down and he does it anyway, don't you think an impeachment move in the House is certain?
Howard, I am not going to speculate about it because I hope Congress will exercise its best judgment to prevent the worst elements in Syria from even growing stronger. I hope the Congress will decide not to let Assad believe he has impunity in the use of these weapons. I hope the Congress will believe that upholding the credibility of our nation in the conduct of foreign affairs is important. I hope the Congress believes that this is a message that Iran needs to understand as they proceed, conceivably, to be developing nuclear weapons. I hope that they will also agree to uphold it with respect to others in the world, like Kim Jong Un in North Korea, who needs to know that America stands by its word. And for all the people in the world who depend on America as a reliable partner, this is a critical message. I hope Congress will recognize that the plan is appropriately and unbelievably limited and tailored in its scope so that it is not going to war -- it is a limited action to uphold the importance of degrading his capacity to use chemical weapons.

And I do not believe Assad will respond this time because he doesnt want to invite Israel to retaliate against him. He doesnt want to invite the United States to do that. I believe that this is a very important moment, and I hope that the Congress will do the right thing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Posted: 09/25/13 EDT | Updated: 09/26/13 EDT
What Will You Pay For Obamacare? Depends On Where You Live (MAP)

The cost of enrollment in the health care exchanges that open Oct. 1 will depend on a person's age, family size, tobacco use, income  and geographic location, with significant variation among cities and states. The average nationwide price of basic coverage was $249 a month, not including tax credits that could reduce the cost for many Americans, according to a report the Obama administration released Wednesday.

Why is the cheapest "bronze" plan just $144 in Minnesota and $425 on average in Wyoming? Prices hinge on many factors, including how much health care services cost in the region. Premiums on the health insurance exchanges also depend in part on how many insurers are competing in the local market.


The more choices you have, the lower the premiums, a senior administration official told ThinkProgress. States with few insurance companies who didnt get a lot of new competitors this coming year, still have higher premiums.

These prices may not reflect what consumers will actually pay, as more than half of the uninsured will be eligible for federal subsidies that would reduce the cost of coverage to less than $100 per month.

Because most Americans already have coverage through their employers or government programs, only a small slice of the population is likely to enroll in the health care exchanges. See who will be affected here.

Infographic by Jan Diehm for The Huffington Post.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It is amazing, isn't it, just how inexpensive health care insurance is projected to be?
Now what were those objections?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Posted: 09/25/13 EDT | Updated: 09/26/13 EDT
> What Will You Pay For Obamacare? Depends On Where You Live (MAP)
> 
> The cost of enrollment in the health care exchanges that open Oct. 1 will depend on a person's age, family size, tobacco use, income  and geographic location, with significant variation among cities and states. The average nationwide price of basic coverage was $249 a month, not including tax credits that could reduce the cost for many Americans, according to a report the Obama administration released Wednesday.
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Duval Public Schools: No more KKK High School

Change.org
By omotayo richmond
Jacksonville, Florida

I moved to Jacksonville from Long Island 12 years ago. Since then, I've put down roots here. I've helped raise a beautiful daughter here. This place is my home now, and the people who live here deserve better than a high school named for the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.
That's right, Jacksonville is home to Nathan Bedford Forrest High School, named in honor of a Confederate general who infamously slaughtered Black Union soldiers who'd already surrendered and who was a founding member of the original Ku Klux Klan. The school got its name in 1959, when white civic leaders wanted to protest a court decision that called for integrating public schools.
I don't want my daughter, or any student, going to a school named under those circumstances. This is a bad look for Florida -- with so much racial division in our state, renaming Forrest High would be a step toward healing.
Five years ago, the school board voted 5 - 2 to keep the name. But a lot has changed in five years. All five members who voted for Nathan Bedford Forrest have been replaced. There's a new school superintendent who publicly stated that he would support a push from our community to change the name. Now is the time to right a historical wrong. African American Jacksonville students shouldn't have to attend a high school named for someone who slaughtered and terrorized their ancestors one more school year.
In the end, I want my child to be able to go anywhere in Jacksonville and be proud of where she is. That can't happen with Nathan Bedford Forrest High School.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> HAHHA, we could make that our ridiculous battle cry to match the calls for President Obama's documents.
> I WANT his GPA... the ORIGINAL!


But unlike Obama, Cruz would supply his grades, not keep everything hidden.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Well good, if you are so sure of that why not put in a request?



soloweygirl said:


> But unlike Obama, Cruz would supply his grades, not keep everything hidden.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is FactCheck.org's take on Ted Cruz' assertions during his time wasting spiel this week. 
The website to get the full report:
http://www.factcheck.org/2013/09/factchecking-pernicious-obamacare-claims/?utm_source=FactCheck.org&utm_campaign=6425f7d658-FactChecking_Pernicious_Claims9_26_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_3294bba774-6425f7d658-47875581

FactChecking Pernicious Obamacare Claims
Theres plenty of fodder for fact-checkers in Sen. Ted Cruzs looong attack on Obamacare, and in President Obamas defense of it.

September 25, 2013

Summary
Sen. Ted Cruzs 21-hour talk-a-thon and President Obamas joint appearance with former President Clinton will keep us busy for a while, but so far weve seen our share of false, misleading and not-quite-right statements:

Cruz falsely claimed that the spouses of 15,000 UPS employees will be left without health insurance and forced into an exchange with no employer subsidy. UPS is dropping coverage for spouses only if they can get insurance with their own employer. 
Obama greatly exaggerated when he credited the health care law for bending the cost curve on health care spending. Experts say the down economy is the overwhelming reason that national health care spending has been growing at historically slow rates in recent years. 
Cruz said the IRS employees union has asked to be exempted from Obamacare. Not so. The union wants its workers to be treated like any other worker with employer-provided health insurance. It opposes a GOP bill that it says, contrary to law, would take coverage away from employees who already receive it through their employers. 
Cruz said the unemployment rate for black teens is over 10 times higher than it is for college graduates  38.2 percent. True, but thats comparing apples to oranges. The unemployment rate for white teens, aged 16 to 19, is also high, at 20.5 percent. Theres still a racial disparity, but the rate is nearly double, not 10 times higher. 
Cruz cited an outdated quote from Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moodys Analytics, to back up his claim that Obamacare is slowing job growth. Zandi told us the slowdown in job growth at small businesses is no longer the case. 
Sen. Rand Paul wrongly argued that everybody is going to pay more for health insurance under the law. The fact is, some will pay more and some will pay less. Some currently uninsured Americans will pay little or nothing because of the laws expansion of Medicaid. 
Cruz said Obama promised three-and-a-half years ago  in 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was passed  that premiums would drop $2,500″ for the average family by the end of his first term. Thats not exactly what the president said or when he said it. 
Note: This is a summary only. The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed on our website here.

And consider donating to FactCheck.org. Help us hold politicians accountable.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Fort Pillow MassacreArticle Free Pass
Introduction
Related
Contributors & Bibliography
Fort Pillow Massacre, (April 12, 1864), in the American Civil War, Confederate slaughter of black Federal troops stationed at Fort Pillow, Tennessee. The action stemmed from Southern outrage at the Norths use of black soldiers. From the beginning of hostilities, the Confederate leadership was faced with the question of whether to treat black soldiers captured in battle as slaves in insurrection or, as the Union insisted, as prisoners of war.


In what proved the ugliest racial incident of the war, Confederate forces under General Nathan B. Forrest captured Fort Pillow on April 12, 1864, and proceeded to kill all the black troops within; some were burned or buried alive. A Federal congressional investigating committee subsequently verified that more than 300 blacks, including women and children, had been slain after the fort surrendered. After the incident, black soldiers going into battle used the cry Remember Fort Pillow!


Nathan Bedford Forrest (Confederate general)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, Forrest was a pissah, as we say in the Boston area.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is amazing, isn't it, just how inexpensive health care insurance is projected to be?
> Now what were those objections?


I personally will be paying between 1/3 to 1/4 of what my current premium amount is and I will be getting the same care with the same doctors and hospitals I have access to today. I am one of those retirees who is still too young for medicare so this will put a lot of money back in my pocket and this is without getting any premium assistance. All this nonsense coming from Cruz and the GOP is out of fear as they know this plan is going to work and years from now Americans will be looking back at it and thankful they have it just as people do today who are recipients of Social Security and Medicare. They just can't stand the thought that our first black President put through such an important program.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, Forrest was a pissah, as we say in the Boston area.


I knew he was rotten but when I started to research him I found out what a monster he was. Why does the South still want to glorify these racist people. I have to believe there is still a lot of people who are racists in the South or they would have changed the name of that school years ago out of shame. Feeling as they do it is also no surprise that they cannot accept a black man as their President and many openly will tell you,he isn't my President. They lie through their teeth when they say this. Who do they think they are kidding. They just can't accept that a black man is superior to themselves. Where has their scapegoat gone? They are lost without one.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Duval Public Schools: No more KKK High School
> 
> Military historian David J. Eicher concluded, "Fort Pillow marked one of the bleakest, saddest events of American military history.
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, Forrest was a pissah, as we say in the Boston area.


I will have to remember that, jelun. The GOP is filled with pissahs.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I will have to remember that, jelun. The GOP is filled with pissahs.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Duval Public Schools: No more KKK High School
> 
> Change.org
> By omotayo richmond
> ...


Hello Cheeky and Friends.
I am still on the Road.
Having a good time and do miss my Partner.
Life goes on as we planned far ahead of time.
It is interesting to see and feel the regional differences.
Teachings of the past sure are hanging on in some areas. 
And those are not pleasant.
See you later.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think his birth certificate will need to be thoroughly vetted. I haven't seen anything yet. We'll be watching solo.



soloweygirl said:


> But unlike Obama, Cruz would supply his grades, not keep everything hidden.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good for you Cheeky. More yarn?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I personally will be paying between 1/3 to 1/4 of what my current premium amount is and I will be getting the same care with the same doctors and hospitals I have access to today. I am one of those retirees who is still too young for medicare so this will put a lot of money back in my pocket and this is without getting any premium assistance. All this nonsense coming from Cruz and the GOP is out of fear as they know this plan is going to work and years from now Americans will be looking back at it and thankful they have it just as people do today who are recipients of Social Security and Medicare. They just can't stand the thought that our first black President put through such an important program.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I knew he was rotten but when I started to research him I found out what a monster he was. Why does the South still want to glorify these racist people. I have to believe there is still a lot of people who are racists in the South or they would have changed the name of that school years ago out of shame. Feeling as they do it is also no surprise that they cannot accept a black man as their President and many openly will tell you,he isn't my President. They lie through their teeth when they say this. Who do they think they are kidding. They just can't accept that a black man is superior to themselves. Where has their scapegoat gone? They are lost without one.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for checking in,lngried. We will have to get to know each other soon. j



Ingried said:


> Hello Cheeky and Friends.
> I am still on the Road.
> Having a good time and do miss my Partner.
> Life goes on as we planned far ahead of time.
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

For 70 years the debt ceiling has been raised without any fight. Why do we have a problem now? Because Obama is in the White House. I don't understand what's to be gained by this inaction. We have to pay for things already appropriated. It's debt already incurred. Am I missing something?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I was thinking today that Ted Cruz already has his email list of supporters for his campaign for the presidency. All those people that sent him money to defund Obamacare will now get pleas to fund Teddy-Boy's war chest.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

And, I have to add that he did a terrible job of reading Dr. Seuss. Didn't even hold up the pictures.
Yes, I do dislike him more than a little.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> But unlike Obama, Cruz would supply his grades, not keep everything hidden.


soloweygirl
President Barack Obama has proven time and time again how smart the is. Did not some of you post some time back that formal education is irrelevant? Fortunately our President had fabulous parenting, learned great life's lessons and had a stellar education. I know, I know, it irks you to no end. Get over it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> President Barack Obama has proven time and time again how smart the is. Did not some of you post some time back that formal education is irrelevant? Fortunately our President had fabulous parenting, learned great life's lessons and had a stellar education. I know, know, it irks you to no end. Get over it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And, I have to add that he did a terrible job of reading Dr. Seuss. Didn't even hold up the pictures.
> Yes, I do dislike him more than a little.


alccameron
a very poor performer of any kind he is. He is a bully just like his father and trying to be softer ain't working at all. The real him always comes through. What he is getting good at is becoming a Joe McCarthy and that is scary. At least let us give credit to the Oldies of the Republican Party, they are recognizing his game and are not enthused about him at all. They surely are tyring very hard not to be too aggressive towards him but still what they are expressing is very telling. Cruz will reach his zenith soon and tumble into nomandsland. I found Limbaugh's disinterest in Cruz's rambling VERY fascinating. But then Limbaugh was not prepared and is always poor in reacting off the cuff. If it is not written down, he cannot do his dance.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alccameron
> a very poor performer of any kind he is. He is a bully just like his father and trying to be softer ain't working at all. The real him always comes through. What he is getting good at is becoming a Joe McCarthy and that is scary. At least let us give credit to the Oldies of the Republican Party, they are recognizing his game and are not enthused about him at all. They surely are tyring very hard not to be too aggressive towards him but still what they are expressing is very telling. Cruz will reach his zenith soon and tumble into nomandsland. I found Limbaugh's disinterest in Cruz's rambling VERY fascinating. But then Limbaugh was not prepared and is always poor in reacting off the cuff. If it is not written down, he cannot do his dance.


Plus, he tells one lie after another!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I was thinking today that Ted Cruz already has his email list of supporters for his campaign for the presidency. All those people that sent him money to defund Obamacare will now get pleas to fund Teddy-Boy's war chest.


alcameron
it will be a pleasure to have him run for President. A real pleasure.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> it will be a pleasure to have him run for President. A real pleasure.


 :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> it will be a pleasure to have him run for President. A real pleasure.


Yup, it would be, but I think the repubs will nominate Rand Paul.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> For 70 years the debt ceiling has been raised without any fight. Why do we have a problem now? Because Obama is in the White House. I don't understand what's to be gained by this inaction. We have to pay for things already appropriated. It's debt already incurred. Am I missing something?


alcameron
what an example these Republicans are setting. They made the debt and now they do not want to pay for it. Of course it is because a not all white man is in the White House and they want to make it look as if he is irresponsible. Transfering fault you know.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Yup, it would be, but I think the repubs will nominate Rand Paul.


alcameron
another Jewel. I think you are on track. I want the GOP
back. Two strong parties are a positive but I am sorry to say that the Tea Party is destroying that possibility. Those folks are totally nuts. Has someone recruited the least functioning from some Institution to do the dirty work for a handfull of wealthy Charlatans? Sure seems like it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> another Jewel and I think you are on track.


And they need Rubio on the ticket to get the Hispanic vote.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And they need Rubio on the ticket to get the Hispanic vote.


alcameron
I am sure he is working in that territory. He however is much too unprepared for that position. He should wait two terms and then run. If he runs now he may well become another McCain or Romney, multiple losses.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> I am sure he is working in that territory. He however is much too unprepared for that position. He should wait two terms and then run. If he runs now he may well become another McCain or Romney, multiple losses.


We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
Well, dinner awaits.
Latergators


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I just wanted to check to see if that is a typo. 
Did you mean multiple losses, multiple losers, or both? 
:lol:



Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> I am sure he is working in that territory. He however is much too unprepared for that position. He should wait two terms and then run. If he runs now he may well become another McCain or Romney, multiple losses.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Enjoy.



alcameron said:


> We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
> Well, dinner awaits.
> Latergators


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I personally will be paying between 1/3 to 1/4 of what my current premium amount is and I will be getting the same care with the same doctors and hospitals I have access to today. I am one of those retirees who is still too young for medicare so this will put a lot of money back in my pocket and this is without getting any premium assistance. All this nonsense coming from Cruz and the GOP is out of fear as they know this plan is going to work and years from now Americans will be looking back at it and thankful they have it just as people do today who are recipients of Social Security and Medicare. They just can't stand the thought that our first black President put through such an important program.


Cheeky Blighter
does that not make you feel great? There are a few kinks in the program but they are working on it diligently to iron them out. Lots of highly experienced Volunteers working for the President to assist all of us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter

we are having the same experience. Exactly what the Republicans like Cruz fear. We sure like what we are getting now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And they need Rubio on the ticket to get the Hispanic vote.


Most hispanic voters polled do not care for Rubio. His agenda is far away from what the Hispanic voters want and need.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Plus, he tells one lie after another!


In describing Hitler's psychological profile:U.S. Office of Strategic Services
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
Sounds like someone out on KP doesn't it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Most hispanic voters polled do not care for Rubio. His agenda is far away from what the Hispanic voters want and need.


In everything I have read and seen Hispanics don't feel Rubio connects with them but is out of touch and dishonest along with the rest of the Tea Party crowd. In polls Clinton does much better.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That won't stop the Grand Old Party, however, the only thing that might put the stopper in that drip will be if they remember that it is Gingrich's turn... maybe they will rename him ****** not realizing that while a Spanish word it is not latino friendly



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Rubio is out of touch with hispanic voters. They believe Clinton would be a much better candidate for them.
> 
> nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/.../hispanics-hillary-rubio-poll-2016.html‎
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yup, it would be, but I think the repubs will nominate Rand Paul.


I think Paul will end up getting the nomination too. I'm not impressed with any of them. I wish the GOP would come back to it's senses so some decent Republicans would come out and run again. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have two candidates that were both so good it would be hard to decide who to vote for and you really wouldn't be disappointed if either one of them won. I can dream can't I.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I sincerely hope so. Paul and Rubio... either way pleases me.



alcameron said:


> Yup, it would be, but I think the repubs will nominate Rand Paul.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That won't stop the Grand Old Party, however, the only thing that might put the stopper in that drip will be if they remember that it is Gingrich's turn... maybe they will rename him ****** not realizing that while a Spanish word it is not latino friendly


I forgot about Newt. He looks pretty good compared to this new crop of ?":}{()***&!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

In case you've forgotten the moral of the story

Senator Cruz Does Not Understand Green Eggs and Ham

Among the more bizarre moments of Senator Cruz's fake filibuster tonight was his reading of the Dr. Seuss book Green Eggs and Ham from the floor of the U.S. Senate.

Shortly after 8 p.m., Cruz announced he would begin reading "bedtime stories" to his two young daughters . . . Then he read the Dr. Seuss classic, "Green Eggs and Ham," in its entirety, noting that it was one of his favorite children's books.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...
This is an odd choice of a book for Senator Cruz to read in that its message actually supports the position of the Democrats that the Affordable Care Act (otherwise known as Obamacare) should be allowed to go into effect as scheduled.

In the story Green Eggs and Ham, the narrator starts by telling the reader how he does not like Green Eggs and Ham under any circumstance. A lot of the book contains lists of circumstances under which the narrator would not eat Green Eggs and Ham. For example:

I do not like them
in a house.
I do not like them
with a mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.
I do not like green eggs and ham.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.
http://answers.yahoo.com/...
Then the narrator, after much urging by Sam-I-Am, eats the green eggs and ham to prove Sam-I-Am wrong. However, much to the narrator's surprise, he actually likes Green Eggs and Ham. 
Say!
I like green eggs and ham!
I do!! I like them, Sam-I-am!
And I would eat them in a boat!
And I would eat them with a goat...
And I will eat them in the rain.
And in the dark. And on a train.
And in a car. And in a tree.
They are so good so good you see!
http://answers.yahoo.com/...
The narrator then goes on to actually thank Sam-I-Am for encouraging him to try the Green Eggs and Ham.
I do so like
green eggs and ham!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Sam-I-am
http://answers.yahoo.com/...
Senator Cruz-Obamacare is like Green Eggs and Ham. Like the narrator in the story, some people have come to the conclusion (after hearing a lot of right wing propaganda) that they won't like Obamacare even though they have never tried it. A lot of their opposition is based on their fear of trying something different from what they are used to. However, like the narrator in the story, once the American people try Obamacare, I think that they will like it. And like the narrator in the story who thanks Sam-I-Am for forcing him to try the green eggs and ham, I think that the American People will ultimately thank President Obama and the Democrats for Obamacare.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I sincerely hope so. Paul and Rubio... either way pleases me.


I am looking forward to the debates. I think the next election will be very ugly. I think politics has always been a dirty business but maybe now they don't keep all the really nasty stuff behind closed doors anymore. Everything is right out there with a big spotlight on it. I really wish they would stop all the terrible personal attacks on candidates and their families and I think the media has had a lot to do with promoting this unseemly behavior.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am looking forward to the debates. I think the next election will be very ugly. I think politics has always been a dirty business but maybe now they don't keep all the really nasty stuff behind closed doors anymore. Everything is right out there with a big spotlight on it. I really wish they would stop all the terrible personal attacks on candidates and their families and I think the media has had a lot to do with promoting this unseemly behavior.


There's no civility anymore.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In case you've forgotten the moral of the story
> 
> Senator Cruz Does Not Understand Green Eggs and Ham
> 
> ...


Bravo, Andrea - So informative and so much fun. Thank you very kindly. That made me smile! :-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> There's no civility anymore.


That's it exactly. I remember when senators and congressmen used to disagree and even argue about a variety of things but in the end most of them had very close and dear friends on the other side of the aisle. I think if they could remember we are all Americans first who love this country instead of identifying ourselves by what party we favor we would all be much better off. It can't be all or nothing and they have to get back to negotiating and give and take.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I will say good night jelun. Sleep well. See you tomorrow.
Bazinga!


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## Pixiedust (Aug 30, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am looking forward to the debates. I think the next election will be very ugly. I think politics has always been a dirty business but maybe now they don't keep all the really nasty stuff behind closed doors anymore. Everything is right out there with a big spotlight on it. I really wish they would stop all the terrible personal attacks on candidates and their families and I think the media has had a lot to do with promoting this unseemly behavior.


The media and the Koch Brothers.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's it exactly. I remember when senators and congressmen used to disagree and even argue about a variety of things but in the end most of them had very close and dear friends on the other side of the aisle. I think if they could remember we are all Americans first who love this country instead of identifying ourselves by what party we favor we would all be much better off. It can't be all or nothing and they have to get back to negotiating and give and take.


As long as the repubs let the radicals take over the party, we'll have no negotiating. It's anarchy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes. It's a disgraceful political ploy risking our investment system. I'm sick about it. This is high risk.



alcameron said:


> For 70 years the debt ceiling has been raised without any fight. Why do we have a problem now? Because Obama is in the White House. I don't understand what's to be gained by this inaction. We have to pay for things already appropriated. It's debt already incurred. Am I missing something?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is he vetted to run? I thought there was some question.



alcameron said:


> I was thinking today that Ted Cruz already has his email list of supporters for his campaign for the presidency. All those people that sent him money to defund Obamacare will now get pleas to fund Teddy-Boy's war chest.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think Theo is rolling in his grave.



alcameron said:


> And, I have to add that he did a terrible job of reading Dr. Seuss. Didn't even hold up the pictures.
> Yes, I do dislike him more than a little.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> another Jewel. I think you are on track. I want the GOP
> back. Two strong parties are a positive but I am sorry to say that the Tea Party is destroying that possibility. Those folks are totally nuts. Has someone recruited the least functioning from some Institution to do the dirty work for a handfull of wealthy Charlatans? Sure seems like it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the Hispanics are too smart to fall for a Cuban who fights against immigration policy dear to their hearts. They won't forget the slap.



alcameron said:


> And they need Rubio on the ticket to get the Hispanic vote.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And Florida (of the hanging chad fiasco) and other states are still trying to keep Navigators from assisting people with non-biased answers.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> does that not make you feel great? There are a few kinks in the program but they are working on it diligently to iron them out. Lots of highly experienced Volunteers working for the President to assist all of us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sure does.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> In describing Hitler's psychological profile:U.S. Office of Strategic Services
> His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
> Sounds like someone out on KP doesn't it?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My opinion is that that will not happen in our lifetime.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think Paul will end up getting the nomination too. I'm not impressed with any of them. I wish the GOP would come back to it's senses so some decent Republicans would come out and run again. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have two candidates that were both so good it would be hard to decide who to vote for and you really wouldn't be disappointed if either one of them won. I can dream can't I.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope they're really making it too easy.



jelun2 said:


> I sincerely hope so. Paul and Rubio... either way pleases me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> In case you've forgotten the moral of the story
> 
> Senator Cruz Does Not Understand Green Eggs and Ham
> 
> ...


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Al. Nice explanation. I guess this just proves the tea party doesn't understand what they say. Or Cruz' kids are trying to teach their dad something.



alcameron said:


> In case you've forgotten the moral of the story
> 
> Senator Cruz Does Not Understand Green Eggs and Ham
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Does anybody else think the speculation about who will run in 2016 and what their platform will be is a little premature, even though this is going to be an extremely important? President Obama is only 8 months into his second term. We don't know what conditions will be like in 2016. Thre could be a huge turn around for the better for the economy, for example, which would give the Democrats a big boost in the election. Could all this attention to the 2016 Presidential election be some kind of diversionary device to get us to pay attention to the far future and not wach out for what's going on right now, right under our noses?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I just wanted to check to see if that is a typo.
> Did you mean multiple losses, multiple losers, or both?
> :lol:


jelun2
both.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

If I recall my history correctly, the last time we declared war on any country was in 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor brought FDR to Congress for permission to declare war on Germany and its allies. Since then, we haven't stopped waging war in various parts of the world, but we have not officially called these actions "wars" and done quite a few end runs around Congress. For example, the Korean War was officially called a "police action". It all goes down hill from there. 

While our military actions have been given surgar-coated names, people at large have called them wars even though they weren't called that by those who made the decisions to act in a war-like way. Our government even has the gall to say that we have been waging war in Iraq and Afghanistan without getting the kind of Congressional approval FDR got 72 years ago so we could enter WWII. 

Maybe it's time we got a little more truthful and started calling the military operations we're involved in wars, and return to giving Congress one of its important functions. It isn't very easy to believe we still have a system of checks and balances when any one of the three branches of our government loses functions they once had.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Does anybody else think the speculation about who will run in 2016 and what their platform will be is a little premature, even though this is going to be an extremely important? President Obama is only 8 months into his second term. We don't know what conditions will be like in 2016. Thre could be a huge turn around for the better for the economy, for example, which would give the Democrats a big boost in the election. Could all this attention to the 2016 Presidential election be some kind of diversionary device to get us to pay attention to the far future and not wach out for what's going on right now, right under our noses?


Yes, it's a little early for speculation, but I think those repubs are already collecting campaign funds.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sure it is, any of the people up for consideration could be dead by the beginning of 2015 when the heat is really rising. Anything could happen, I wish that the Dems would come up with someone more interesting than either Hillary or Joe Biden. Anyone younger on the Dem side is biding their time, of course. The Clinton camp in particular can be pretty harsh. 
I still anticipate great mirth with the right wing debates!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Does anybody else think the speculation about who will run in 2016 and what their platform will be is a little premature, even though this is going to be an extremely important? President Obama is only 8 months into his second term. We don't know what conditions will be like in 2016. Thre could be a huge turn around for the better for the economy, for example, which would give the Democrats a big boost in the election. Could all this attention to the 2016 Presidential election be some kind of diversionary device to get us to pay attention to the far future and not wach out for what's going on right now, right under our noses?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, of course they are. Every time they scream "Defund Obamacare" they are sending out a communication saying "send money, it's a big battle" just like the Dems do. 
LOL, I am not sure whatever gave Terry McAullife the idea I want to support him for VA gov.



alcameron said:


> Yes, it's a little early for speculation, but I think those repubs are already collecting campaign funds.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sure it is, any of the people up for consideration could be dead by the beginning of 2015 when the heat is really rising. Anything could happen, I wish that the Dems would come up with someone more interesting than either Hillary or Joe Biden. Anyone younger on the Dem side is biding their time, of course. The Clinton camp in particular can be pretty harsh.
> I still anticipate great mirth with the right wing debates!


I bet the repub debates will be just as hilarious as last time. There wasn't a serious candidate among them---maybe Huntsman, and they got rid of him right away.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Prioritize. If we're lucky, we can deal with tomorrow tomorrow. The next month is critical. If they manage to screw this up,the 2016 election will be the least of our worries.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Does anybody else think the speculation about who will run in 2016 and what their platform will be is a little premature, even though this is going to be an extremely important? President Obama is only 8 months into his second term. We don't know what conditions will be like in 2016. Thre could be a huge turn around for the better for the economy, for example, which would give the Democrats a big boost in the election. Could all this attention to the 2016 Presidential election be some kind of diversionary device to get us to pay attention to the far future and not wach out for what's going on right now, right under our noses?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bazinga for now, my dears. I'm going to do something productive for awhile. Not that this isn't productive, but you get my drift . .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, what are they? Billion dollar skirmishes? I say if it's going to cost billions and trillions, and we can't afford food or health care for our citizens, they sure as shootin better get a consensus of approval before getting uppity.



MaidInBedlam said:


> If I recall my history correctly, the last time we declared war on any country was in 1941 after the attack on Pearl Harbor brought FDR to Congress for permission to declare war on Germany and its allies. Since then, we haven't stopped waging war in various parts of the world, but we have not officially called these actions "wars" and done quite a few end runs around Congress. For example, the Korean War was officially called a "police action". It all goes down hill from there.
> 
> While our military actions have been given surgar-coated names, people at large have called them wars even though they weren't called that by those who made the decisions to act in a war-like way. Our government even has the gall to say that we have been waging war in Iraq and Afghanistan without getting the kind of Congressional approval FDR got 72 years ago so we could enter WWII.
> 
> Maybe it's time we got a little more truthful and started calling the military operations we're involved in wars, and return to giving Congress one of its important functions. It isn't very easy to believe we still have a system of checks and balances when any one of the three branches of our government loses functions they once had.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Bazinga for now, my dears. I'm going to do something productive for awhile. Not that this isn't productive, but you get my drift . .


 :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They'll need it. Maybe they should look for a solid platform and candidate first......but let them do it their way.



alcameron said:


> Yes, it's a little early for speculation, but I think those repubs are already collecting campaign funds.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Chealsa Clinton? Just joking. She's got time. I would like to see a female candidate(s.) Hillary has experience. She also has baggage. And she deserves retirement and being a grandmother.



jelun2 said:


> Sure it is, any of the people up for consideration could be dead by the beginning of 2015 when the heat is really rising. Anything could happen, I wish that the Dems would come up with someone more interesting than either Hillary or Joe Biden. Anyone younger on the Dem side is biding their time, of course. The Clinton camp in particular can be pretty harsh.
> I still anticipate great mirth with the right wing debates!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, I believe their platform is the same as always... Just Say NO! to women, to minorities who are people of color, to the disenfranchised in the voting booth and in representation.



damemary said:


> They'll need it. Maybe they should look for a solid platform and candidate first......but let them do it their way.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So would I, Oprah Winfrey?

She has the executive experience. She remembers the bad times, knows how to turn them around... hey, they elected Ronny.



damemary said:


> Chealsa Clinton? Just joking. She's got time. I would like to see a female candidate(s.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My oh my! Can't you just imagine how much they'd love a dark, black woman? I'd go with the New Age stuff just to see the look on their pale faces.



jelun2 said:


> So would I, Oprah Winfrey?
> 
> She has the executive experience. She remembers the bad times, knows how to turn them around... hey, they elected Ronny.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Listening to the news earlier. If the shut down happens, the military and others who work for the Federal government (who are paid on the 1st and 15th of each month), will get paid on the 1st, but not the 15th. The first, of course, because it is for the prior two weeks. But who will get paid on going are those that are mandated by the Constitution, to wit; Judges, the President and the Congress! Doesn't that just make you all warm and fuzzy! The very bums who are causing this to happen for political reasons and because they loathe President Obama,will be paid for it! FOOEY !


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It won't last long, if there is nobody around to push the PAY button for the 3rd of the month there will be quite an uproar. 
For that matter, in the couple of days leading up to the 3rd phone lines will be jammed.



MindyT said:


> Listening to the news earlier. If the shut down happens, the military and others who work for the Federal government (who are paid on the 1st and 15th of each month), will get paid on the 1st, but not the 15th. The first, of course, because it is for the prior two weeks. But who will get paid on going are those that are mandated by the Constitution, to wit; Judges, the President and the Congress! Doesn't that just make you all warm and fuzzy! The very bums who are causing this to happen for political reasons and because they loathe President Obama,will be paid for it! FOOEY !


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Listening to the news earlier. If the shut down happens, the military and others who work for the Federal government (who are paid on the 1st and 15th of each month), will get paid on the 1st, but not the 15th. The first, of course, because it is for the prior two weeks. But who will get paid on going are those that are mandated by the Constitution, to wit; Judges, the President and the Congress! Doesn't that just make you all warm and fuzzy! The very bums who are causing this to happen for political reasons and because they loathe President Obama,will be paid for it! FOOEY !


Barbara Boxer introduced a bill that would stop pay for the president and congress if they shut the government down. The senate passed it and sent it to the house but Boehner won't bring it up in the house.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

NJG said:


> Barbara Boxer introduced a bill that would stop pay for the president and congress if they shut the government down. The senate passed it and sent it to the house but Boehner won't bring it up in the house.


We just love that Boehner don't we. So predictable, such a tool. He and Mitch what a pair.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> We just love that Boehner don't we. So predictable, such a tool. He and Mitch what a pair.


All Boehner is worried about is keeping his job as speaker, he and McConnell in the senate, both worthless. Neither one of them have been the tea party type before, but the tea party has them by the ba--- now. Excuse my almost comment there, but it is so aggravating. If the republicans had not changed the distracting the democrats would control the house too. The only way the republicans are in the position they are is because they had to cheat.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Cheat and Koch money.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The final "final push" is on for this one here in Mass. I will be starting next week collecting signatures.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/04/14/proposal-mandate-paid-sick-days-gaining-momentum/8whRYPA3yNN8TgZgIrEFLL/story.html



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for the news from Wisconsin and the update on Scott Walker, Al. Maybe we should check out activity in some other states as well. Any Liberal Ladies want to report on what is happening in your part of the country or your home state in particular? We should be aware of what is happening locally as well as on the national level.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The Republican leadership must kick themselves in the butt every day when remembering that they were anxious to include the Tea Party nutjobs in their numbers. 
It would have been much smarter to freeze them out and not have to deal with this divisiveness all over the right half of the political spectrum.



NJG said:


> All Boehner is worried about is keeping his job as speaker, he and McConnell in the senate, both worthless. Neither one of them have been the tea party type before, but the tea party has them by the ba--- now. Excuse my almost comment there, but it is so aggravating. If the republicans had not changed the distracting the democrats would control the house too. The only way the republicans are in the position they are is because they had to cheat.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Doesn't admin usually bump a thread to a new section at 99?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> The Republican leadership must kick themselves in the butt every day when remembering that they were anxious to include the Tea Party nutjobs in their numbers.
> It would have been much smarter to freeze them out and not have to deal with this divisiveness all over the right half of the political spectrum.


jelun2
well, when you reject, women, the needy and people of color you have to make up numbers somewhere and see what they got? Exactly what they deserve, never ending trouble.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Great point, Huckleberry.



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> well, when you reject, women, the needy and people of color you have to make up numbers somewhere and see what they got? Exactly what they deserve, never ending trouble.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Doesn't admin usually bump a thread to a new section at 99?


Sometimes it takes a while for them to have a chance to get to all the threads but they will do it and we will move on to POV #3.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Pixiedust said:


> The media and the Koch Brothers.


As they say, follow the money. That's what the GOP is all about. They can't win anything honestly but they sure know how loud money talks and how many elections it can win. The Koch brothers are now dictating to PBS what they want to ban from the series, Independent Lens. PBS was to air a documentary concerning the Koch borthers and all of a sudden it was pulled from being shown. PBS is being bombarded by viewers and other contributors insisting the documentary be shown. It is called the Public Broadcasting Station after all and no contributors have the right to dictate what should be shown. More of Republican heavy handed tactics at work, and they say they believe in democracy. What hypocrites!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> For 70 years the debt ceiling has been raised without any fight. Why do we have a problem now? Because Obama is in the White House. I don't understand what's to be gained by this inaction. We have to pay for things already appropriated. It's debt already incurred. Am I missing something?


Yes. You're missing the fact that the GOP wants to take its marbles and go home even though it lost its marbles when the Tea Party showed up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think someone with cajones could make points by submitting a law that Congress' salaries be withheld permanently and added to the debt.



MindyT said:


> Listening to the news earlier. If the shut down happens, the military and others who work for the Federal government (who are paid on the 1st and 15th of each month), will get paid on the 1st, but not the 15th. The first, of course, because it is for the prior two weeks. But who will get paid on going are those that are mandated by the Constitution, to wit; Judges, the President and the Congress! Doesn't that just make you all warm and fuzzy! The very bums who are causing this to happen for political reasons and because they loathe President Obama,will be paid for it! FOOEY !


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No guts no glory.



NJG said:


> Barbara Boxer introduced a bill that would stop pay for the president and congress if they shut the government down. The senate passed it and sent it to the house but Boehner won't bring it up in the house.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's done when they notice or have time.



jelun2 said:


> Doesn't admin usually bump a thread to a new section at 99?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Barbara Boxer has filed a bill that they will not be paid if the budget isn't paid. The Speaker of the House is not commenting yet. 
Payless Congress is fine if we want everyone in there to be enormously rich, I like having a few "normal" people in there.



damemary said:


> I think someone with cajones could make points by submitting a law that Congress' salaries be withheld permanently and added to the debt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> As they say, follow the money. That's what the GOP is all about. They can't win anything honestly but they sure know how loud money talks and how many elections it can win. The Koch brothers are now dictating to PBS what they want to ban from the series, Independent Lens. PBS was to air a documentary concerning the Koch borthers and all of a sudden it was pulled from being shown. PBS is being bombarded by viewers and other contributors insisting the documentary be shown. It is called the Public Broadcasting Station after all and no contributors have the right to dictate what should be shown. More of Republican heavy handed tactics at work, and they say they believe in democracy. What hypocrites!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Because they've paid a lot of moola to hide the facts?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Onward Women! Have you heard what the ACA gives women? They no longer can be charged 20-40% more for their policies than men are charged. They receive preventive care such as mammograms.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perfect explanation Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes. You're missing the fact that the GOP wants to take its marbles and go home even though it lost its marbles when the Tea Party showed up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I want them to have some skin in the game.



jelun2 said:


> Barbara Boxer has filed a bill that they will not be paid if the budget isn't paid. The Speaker of the House is not commenting yet.
> Payless Congress is fine if we want everyone in there to be enormously rich, I like having a few "normal" people in there.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I want them to have some skin in the game.


None of them should get paid. If they make other government workers go without then congress should go without too. I would thin the vast majority in congress have more money on hand to get them through this than the average government worker does. Will be interesting to see what Boehner will do.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

As far as I'm concerned, they haven't earned a paycheck in the last 5 years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> As far as I'm concerned, they haven't earned a paycheck in the last 5 years.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I would think that Boehner will probably do what he has been doing. It's sad to see that the Tea Party looks at this as some sort of game. Win and take all no matter who gets hurt, meaning the American people. His speakership is a sinking ship already. He has no control over his caucus and the 'normal' Republicans are sick of their tactics.
I hope the President does not give an inch. It does no good in the long run. If they are willing to take us down the road of defaulting on our debt, then they don't belong there.
I think the voters will show their disdain for the Tea Party
next year. The republicans cannot even agree on any of thir own bills. Sad, very sad.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Only when the old Republican cash stands up to the Koch brothers' cash will the change come about. Until then, viva la dems.



BrattyPatty said:


> I would think that Boehner will probably do what he has been doing. It's sad to see that the Tea Party looks at this as some sort of game. Win and take all no matter who gets hurt, meaning the American people. His speakership is a sinking ship already. He has no control over his caucus and the 'normal' Republicans are sick of their tactics.
> I hope the President does not give an inch. It does no good in the long run. If they are willing to take us down the road of defaulting on our debt, then they don't belong there.
> I think the voters will show their disdain for the Tea Party
> next year. The republicans cannot even agree on any of thir own bills. Sad, very sad.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


Cheeky blighter
Thank you. Plenty of us will be bugging PBS to air what should be aired. It is pertinent information.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky blighter
> Thank you. Plenty of us will be bugging PBS to air what should be aired. It is pertinent information.


Yes it is!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Only when the old Republican cash stands up to the Koch brothers' cash will the change come about. Until then, viva la dems.


damemary
what a mess the Supreme Court, which should straighten out problems, has created. Would love to face Alito for example who kept shaking his head when Pesident Obama spoke about the irresponsible decision. Nothing like the highest Court selling our Nation.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> what a mess the Supreme Court, which should straighten out problems, has created. Would love to face Alito for example who kept shaking his head when Pesident Obama spoke about the irresponsible decision. Nothing like the highest Court selling our Nation.


Alito makes my stomach turn.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I would think that Boehner will probably do what he has been doing. It's sad to see that the Tea Party looks at this as some sort of game. Win and take all no matter who gets hurt, meaning the American people. His speakership is a sinking ship already. He has no control over his caucus and the 'normal' Republicans are sick of their tactics.
> I hope the President does not give an inch. It does no good in the long run. If they are willing to take us down the road of defaulting on our debt, then they don't belong there.
> I think the voters will show their disdain for the Tea Party
> next year. The republicans cannot even agree on any of thir own bills. Sad, very sad.


Bratty Patty
wonder how many more Martinis Boehner now drinks per sitting since he is crying Crocodile tears into them more than ever and dilutes them. Nancy sure knew how to carry any Ball while Boehner can't even find his. What a weakling. He should be kicking you know what rather than ducking in fear.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> wonder how many more Martinis Boehner now drinks per sitting since he is crying Crocodile tears into them more than ever and dilutes them. Nancy sure knew how to carry any Ball while Boehner can't even find his. What a weakling. He should be kicking you know what rather than ducking in fear.


I agree. But if holding that oversized gavel is more important to him than his ethics or morals, then he has every reason to cry. I think that gavel may be switching hands very soon.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> As far as I'm concerned, they haven't earned a paycheck in the last 5 years.


Bratty Patty
they should be paying us back with high interest for creating so much trouble for us and actually for the rest of the World as well. Just wait what the Market will do if Cruz and his Cronies have their way. Cruz sure acts like a Communist Czar. To Hell with the Country, I am King Fish. His behavior is a carbon copy of that of Joe McCarthy and his face a Clone of McCarthy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> they should be paying us back with high interest for creating so much trouble for us and actuall for the rest of the World as well. Just wait what the Market will do if Cruz and his Cronies have their way. Cruz sure acts like a Communist Czar. To Hell with the Country, I am King Fish.


And fish smells very bad after a while, now doesn't it?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree. But if holding that oversized gavel is more important to him than his ethics or morals, then he has every reason to cry. I think that gavel may be switching hands very soon.


Bratty Patty
him choosing that Gavel should have told us something.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> And fish smells very bad after a while, now doesn't it?


Bratty Patty
can't think of anything stinking worse.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Dinner is ready. I will see you all a little later.
BAZINGA!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> can't think of anything stinking worse.


How do these idiots even get elected? I know, the general public. It seems that some of the people elected to congress aren't even qualified to be there. Too bad there isn't some kind of test. Besides, why do people who hate big government want to be part of it??
Bazinga for now


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi and bye, Huck. See you later.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> How do these idiots even get elected? I know, the general public. It seems that some of the people elected to congress aren't even qualified to be there. Too bad there isn't some kind of test. Besides, why do people who hate big government want to be part of it??
> Bazinga for now


Al, I was just talking about that over dinner with my husband. His answer is that the "old" (not meaning age)
Republicans are not reaching the voters in the primaries. as well as the Tea Party. They figure if they live in a red state their election is locked up. They have to get out there and doorknock, phone bank, email, and do whatever it takes to get the screwballs out of office. Hope they learn something from this .


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi ladies


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Hi ladies


Janeway, how sweet of you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Janeway, how sweet of you.


Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree a change is coming. '



BrattyPatty said:


> I agree. But if holding that oversized gavel is more important to him than his ethics or morals, then he has every reason to cry. I think that gavel may be switching hands very soon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The investment market will suffer.....and it will affect everyone who has an IRA, 401k, 403b7, etc. I'm sure they've protected themselves in some crooked way.



Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> they should be paying us back with high interest for creating so much trouble for us and actually for the rest of the World as well. Just wait what the Market will do if Cruz and his Cronies have their way. Cruz sure acts like a Communist Czar. To Hell with the Country, I am King Fish. His behavior is a carbon copy of that of Joe McCarthy and his face a Clone of McCarthy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you.


Well, you got me with this one (the one with the truck). Can you explain why you posted it?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Looks like Marissa Anderson will get a new trial, or maybe they will just drop the charges. She has been in jail 3 years. Why didn't the stand your ground law work for her?

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/26/could-charges-be-dropped-against-marissa-alexander/


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree a change is coming. '


damemary and friends:
remember when voting


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not familiar with this one at all.



NJG said:


> Looks like Marissa Anderson will get a new trial, or maybe they will just drop the charges. She has been in jail 3 years. Why didn't the stand your ground law work for her?
> 
> http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/26/could-charges-be-dropped-against-marissa-alexander/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seems to me that all charges should be dropped. That will serve justice for all.



NJG said:


> Looks like Marissa Anderson will get a new trial, or maybe they will just drop the charges. She has been in jail 3 years. Why didn't the stand your ground law work for her?
> 
> http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/26/could-charges-be-dropped-against-marissa-alexander/


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you got me with this one (the one with the truck). Can you explain why you posted it?


Poor Purl
I think that is Ted Cruz hitching a ride on the back of the decent Republicans and they are guiding him OUT. The little creep with the biggest ego.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that is Ted Cruz hitching a ride on the back of the decent Republicans and they are guiding him OUT. The little creep with the biggest ego.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that is Ted Cruz hitching a ride on the back of the decent Republicans and they are guiding him OUT. The little creep with the biggest ego.





damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


I second damemary.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not familiar with this one at all.


If I remember correctly the judge said she made her serve time because she shot the gun into the ceiling and her children witnessed it. Well think of all they had already witnessed with their father abusing their mother and now they had to witness her in prison, when she was just defending herself. Stand your ground works for some I guess, but not everyone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not for a black mother? Hard not to say that.



NJG said:


> If I remember correctly the judge said she made her serve time because she shot the gun into the ceiling and her children witnessed it. Well think of all they had already witnessed with their father abusing their mother and now they had to witness her in prison, when she was just defending herself. Stand your ground works for some I guess, but not everyone.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not for a black mother? Hard not to say that.


Yes it is. That was the issue in this case. Would this have happened to a white woman? I don't think so.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you got me with this one (the one with the truck). Can you explain why you posted it?


If it was me, I'd have posted it for the sheer humor of the thing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If it was me, I'd have posted it for the sheer humor of the thing.


You have a sense of humor. I'm not so sure about Janeway.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Hi ladies


Janeway
that Puppy sure does. Very cute.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that is Ted Cruz hitching a ride on the back of the decent Republicans and they are guiding him OUT. The little creep with the biggest ego.


Very good, Huck!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Very good, Huck!!


The bad thing is that Teddy-boy is the only one to come up smelling like a rose. He got exactly what he wanted---money for his presidential campaign, the email addresses of a ton of people, and notoriety for 2016. His constituents don't care if he's stupid. What's the status of his Canadian birth in regard to being able to run for the presidency?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Following is the opening of a letter from Public Citizen:

"A recent survey found that almost one-third of Republicans in a particular state blame President Obama for something the federal government handled badly.

The state?

Louisiana.

The something?

Hurricane Katrina  which happened more than three years before Obama was even elected president.

My point?

People like you and me who are fighting for progress can take NOTHING for granted."

The rest is a fund-raising letter, but this indicates why lunatic congressmen keep getting elected and re-elected by constituents who have memory deficits or attention deficits. It also shows why the acceptance of the ACA may be going down (if one is to believe poll results posted here). If the last thing someone hears is that "Obamacare" will take away his/her freedom, that's what he/she will remember when polled.

Well, we'll soon see what happens when the ACA goes into effect. But I'm afraid that if the GOP shuts down the government, Obama will get the blame for that in November 2014.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Following is the opening of a letter from Public Citizen:
> 
> "A recent survey found that almost one-third of Republicans in a particular state blame President Obama for something the federal government handled badly.
> 
> ...


Of course, Obama is to blame for everything! I don't think it'll be clear sailing for the ACA. There are always "bugs" in a new program. With the GOP spending 40 million dollars advertising the ACA is a train wreck, people are naturally afraid of it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Of course, Obama is to blame for everything! I don't think it'll be clear sailing for the ACA. There are always "bugs" in a new program. With the GOP spending 40 million dollars advertising the ACA is a train wreck, people are naturally afraid of it.


Al, those words came from Harry Reid, only the Repubs leave out the last part of the quote which is "If not implemented properly".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

There are legitimate reasons for SYG not working for her, she left and came back. 
However, since nobody was hurt she certainly could have been charged with simply discharging a firearm within whatever distance they have as a law.



NJG said:


> Looks like Marissa Anderson will get a new trial, or maybe they will just drop the charges. She has been in jail 3 years. Why didn't the stand your ground law work for her?
> 
> http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/26/could-charges-be-dropped-against-marissa-alexander/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, I remember what a mess FMLA was in the mid '90s mainly due to those folks who were charged with implementing it not wanting to. It was pretty much the same as now. 
People admit that it is a good thing now, other than the objections (this would be similar to ACA objections) that time off should be funded rather than payless.



BrattyPatty said:


> Al, those words came from Harry Reid, only the Repubs leave out the last part of the quote which is "If not implemented properly".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This tickled my funny bone.

https://www.facebook.com/Mediamatters#!/photo.php?fbid=10151616204166167&set=a.10150313151781167.336053.26595441166&type=1&theater


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't know why this didn't come thru as a link. I did check, though, and it does take you to place I wanted. 
Sorry about that. 
Just C&P, please.



jelun2 said:


> This tickled my funny bone.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Mediamatters#!/photo.php?fbid=10151616204166167&set=a.10150313151781167.336053.26595441166&type=1&theater


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very funny and true!! Thanks for sharing this.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This tickled my funny bone.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Mediamatters#!/photo.php?fbid=10151616204166167&set=a.10150313151781167.336053.26595441166&type=1&theater


Good one


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This tickled my funny bone.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Mediamatters#!/photo.php?fbid=10151616204166167&set=a.10150313151781167.336053.26595441166&type=1&theater


Fox News. Always ahead of their time.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Fox News. Always ahead of their time.


As my signature reads "If your neighbors watch Fox news, watch your neighbors!
Is it just me or do they seem like the National Enquirer of the air waves?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As my signature reads "If your neighbors watch Fox news, watch your neighbors!
> Is it just me or do they seem like the National Enquirer of the air waves?


The National Enquirer is a lot more entertaining. But both are equally devoted to the truth.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Love this quote Purl. 

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony


Makes me think of Michelle Bachmann and how God is always telling her what to do, run for congress, run for president retire etc.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Love this quote Purl.
> 
> I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony
> 
> Makes me think of Michelle Bachmann and how God is always telling her what to do, run for congress, run for president retire etc.


God also told her to marry Marcus Bachmann. God has a sense of humor.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> God also told her to marry Marcus Bachmann. God has a sense of humor.


Sometimes two people just deserve each other.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> God also told her to marry Marcus Bachmann. God has a sense of humor.


 :thumbup:


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

I had read that about the people in Louisiana (republicans) who blame the President for Hurricane Katrina problems. I think I may have even posted it. It was shocking. Especially since the head of FEMA at the time, a good ole' boy of the Shrub's, had run a horse farm. Such deep qualifications for a head of multi-million dollar agency. The ACA will have bumps, of course, so did SS and Medicare. We used to know how to do something for the greater good and then patch it up as needed. Now it's just the Tea Baggers notorious 30 holding 300 million people hostage. Man I wish the republicans were smart enough to get rid of all of them when the chance comes and for goodness sake, don't vote in any more! And I know I said Tea Baggers. I'm going back to what we called them before they insisted on Tea Party. It's just so fitting.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
H. L. Mencken
US editor (1880 - 1956)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
> H. L. Mencken
> US editor (1880 - 1956)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They have designed themselves for the lowest IQ's. Their 'news' is lame and slanted. That's what the rightie tightes want.



BrattyPatty said:


> As my signature reads "If your neighbors watch Fox news, watch your neighbors!
> Is it just me or do they seem like the National Enquirer of the air waves?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, you're good.



Poor Purl said:


> The National Enquirer is a lot more entertaining. But both are equally devoted to the truth.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> My oh my! Can't you just imagine how much they'd love a dark, black woman? I'd go with the New Age stuff just to see the look on their pale faces.


How about Congresswoman Barbara Lee?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


Arise sisters because you have everything to loose if you do not fight back.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Her politics are fine, that voice... you know that would be all we would hear about.


peacegoddess said:


> How about Congresswoman Barbara Lee?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Her politics are fine, that voice... you know that would be all we would hear about.


Damned if we do and damned if we don't.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Damned if we do and damned if we don't.


True. Look how they make fun of Debbie Wasserman's voice.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Here is a long one...remember my thread Most Outrageous political act....?

Obedience to Corporate-State Authority Makes Consumer Society Increasingly Dangerous 
Sunday, 29 September 2013 00:00 By Yosef Brody, Truthout | Op-Ed 
Fifty years ago this month, Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram published a groundbreaking article describing a unique human behavior experiment. The study and its many variations, while ethically controversial, gave us new insight into human tendencies to obey authority, surprising the experts and everyone else on just how susceptible we are to doing the bidding of others. The original experiment revealed that a majority of participants would dutifully administer increasingly severe electric shocks to strangers - up to and including potentially lethal doses - because an authority told them that pulling the levers was necessary and required (the "shocks," subjects found out later, were fake). People who obeyed all the way to the end did so even as they experienced tremendous moral conflict. Despite their distress, they never questioned the basic premise of the situation that was fed to them: the institution needed their compliance for the betterment of the common good.

Milgram was driven by the need to comprehend Nazi horror, and today his research is rightly recognized as a warning of how easily things can go wrong if people obey authority uncritically and systematically. Yet its social contribution is only rarely understood to have here-and-now implications. We urgently need to update our appreciation of the perils of obedience to accommodate our contemporary global situation.

The most powerful authorities today make demands that can appear pretty reasonable on the surface - yet are driving us toward oblivion. Climate scientists have reached consensus that our behavior, if unchanged, is likely to result in social and environmental devastation, including mass species extinctions and human suffering on an unprecedented scale. Will our society continue to pull levers until we administer catastrophic doses?

The Milgram experiments offer a potentially helpful metaphor for our current predicament, one that I will expand on below. But first a few words on obedience and disobedience more generally.

Universal Experience, Social Construction and Personal Choice

Obedience and disobedience are universal social experiences. All human beings know what it feels like to obey - with varying degrees of enthusiasm - and we all know what it feels like to disobey. Each of us has plenty of experience with both, and we are always capable of one or the other at any given moment. Every individual with the capacity for independent thinking and action makes multiple daily decisions about whether to obey or disobey various laws, rules, wishes and suggestions of others, whether we are aware of these decisions or not. 

Modern societies are largely founded on the seductive idea that valuing obedience over disobedience will bring personal success and social cohesion. We are taught from an early age that even minor disobedience will sharply increase the likelihood of scary prospects like personal failure and social chaos. These emotionally powerful messages are drilled into us at home and at school, cultivating the necessary habits for powerful interests to function effectively, from parents and teachers to state institutions and large multinational corporations.

When it comes to the nature of obedience-disobedience, there is nothing we could accurately call normal. While obedience can be a particularly strong habit to break, humans (in contrast to other primates with more hard-wired social behavioral programming) are born neither obedient nor disobedient. We have strong tendencies to engage in both types of behavior across cultures and generations, in rational and irrational ways. Whether to obey or disobey in any given situation is a personal choice. Human social reality is extremely variable and complex. As long as we remain social creatures, we must deal with the obedience-disobedience question. 

Acts of obedience have over the centuries been the cause of far more destruction and savagery than have acts of disobedience - maybe most dramatically during World War II. Humanity witnessed an eruption of systematized violence on a scale never before seen, an outcome fully dependent on the obedient behavior of ordinary people. The war ended with two extraordinarily destructive acts: a handful of men obediently followed orders over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, resulting in the instant incineration of several hundred thousand human beings. Soon afterward, as a result of the Nuremberg Tribunal, it became crystal clear for anyone touched by the war that personal considerations of conscience were simply unavoidable when making decisions in hierarchical contexts. The duty to obey authority could no longer justify inhumane actions, neither morally nor legally. Questions regarding obedience and disobedience were revealed to the world as intensely personal, deeply ethical and of supreme consequence. In a post-Nuremberg world, the ultimate responsibility for one's actions falls on the individual, not on powerful interests that persuade or coerce. 

Unfortunately, the nature of habits is that they take concerted effort to break. So powerful are the habits to obey others that we often continue to do so even when our actions are no longer in our own best interest, or when our ethical principles demand otherwise. 

Definitions and Subtypes

Obedience, a voluntary form of submission, means acting in a manner consistent with the prescriptions, suggestions or wishes of an individual or institution in a position of perceived authority or relative social dominance. So a child can be obedient to an older sibling, parent or school, and an adult can be obedient to a spouse, state, public or private organization, or other social authority. But we would not usually say, without irony, that a parent is obedient to a small child; this would seem to describe a different type of social interaction, as power and authority normally reside with the adult. Similarly, when someone follows her peers' behavior or acts according to the wishes of a person of similar social status, it is usually more appropriate to call this conformity rather than obedience. Obedience is an action performed by an actor of relatively lower social status at the behest of an actor of relatively higher status. 

Similarly, we would not usually apply the label of obedience to cases where submissive behavior is forced rather than voluntary. Obedience implies some degree of free choice. People in relatively open societies usually have a high degree of free choice about whether to obey or disobey. This remains true even though Westerners sometimes can be unaware of this enormous freedom and even though decisions about obedience are often highly complex. While we often convince ourselves that our hands are tied - because of potential sacrifices that might result from defiance, like varying degrees of economic insecurity or, much less often, even physical danger - we almost always have a choice whether to obey or disobey. 

Most problematic is the process I call malignant obedience, the type of ongoing, systemic obedience that contributes to social or environmental injustices. Without successful intervention, malignant obedience is, like a cancer, apt to propagate itself until system collapse. 

Not all obedience is malignant, of course. Obedience has an important function as a social bond, a behavioral link between people arranged in hierarchy. Many acts of obedience are pro-social and foster organizational functionality, cooperation and the betterment of life in general. Too often, however, obedience results in ongoing harm, destruction and suffering. 

As for disobedience, it can be manifested in almost infinite forms. Disobedience can be public or private, violent or nonviolent, rational or irrational, passive or active, individual or collective, legal or illegal, rooted in narcissism or rooted in an empathic desire for greater social justice. 

Pulling the Levers of Consumerism

Returning to Milgram's obedience paradigm, let's examine these classic experiments in the context of our lives today. While teaching them in my courses, I've come to realize that Milgram's experimental design parallels our ongoing political-economic experiment remarkably well - and may offer the outlines of a solution.

The authority in the Milgram experiments was a man with a gray lab coat and a stern disposition who repeatedly told subjects to administer increasingly intense electric shocks to another person.

In contemporary society, the most powerful authorities are the interlocking boards of directors of major business corporations and the state apparatuses that support them. As in the Milgram paradigm, the demands made by these authorities on today's consumers and citizens are leading to increasingly grave consequences for human life, including dangers that were not foreseen when Corporate America first launched the mass consumerist experiment in the years following World War I.

How is obedience maintained in consumer society? What sorts of escalating consequences can we expect if it continues?

While large corporations sometimes give direct orders to consumers, more often they exact obedience in indirect ways by suggesting images, ideas and social narratives, and by manipulating emotions so that desired behaviors become more likely. This is what we call marketing and advertising, and it works extremely well.

In recent years, a growing body of psychology research, including important work by Tim Kasser at Knox College, has revealed associations between corporate propagation of materialist attitudes (i.e., having a strong value orientation toward money and possessions) and poorer life satisfaction, higher levels of anxiety and depression, poorer quality of interpersonal relationships and lower self-esteem.

According to other researchers, such as Susan Linn at Harvard University, the consequences of prioritizing the consumerist mindset are even more debilitating for children than they are for adults, especially for young children who have not yet developed the capacity for critical thinking. Direct corporate messaging to children, a relatively new and highly sophisticated phenomenon, is a pretty easy way to boost sales, but it also has predictably negative effects on kids' social, psychological and physical health. For example, most marketing to children is for junk food, a significant risk factor for obesity. According to the New England Journal of Medicine, obesity-related disease is predicted to shorten kids' life spans to such a degree that the current generation will probably die younger than their parents for the first time in the modern era.

As mass consumerism was being promoted in the early 20th century and the modern advertising industry was developing, the full matrix of hazards were unknown. The "shocks" caused by obedient behavior were limited and minimal - the equivalent of a slight tickle. This is no longer the case. As circumstances have changed with time, the consequences of obedience to the corporate imperative have become much more dangerous.

In spite of overwhelming evidence that the habitability of our ecosystem is threatened due to rampant hydrocarbon exploitation, natural resource depletion and unrelenting pollution, we are surrounded by incessant appeals from dominant institutions to pull levers of consumption to keep ourselves and our society flourishing.

Overconsumption is a function of obedience built on the false premise that eternally acquiring more goods will make you, your family and your society happier. These goods are produced in a way that - we now know - is likely to lead to global environmental catastrophe. While many authorities acknowledge climate realities, they also claim that the extraction of fossil fuels continues to be necessary for powering a high-tech, industrial economy.

Is there really no alternative to digging up and burning all the oil, gas and coal that industry can find? Safe energy alternatives to fossil fuels are, in fact, already technologically feasible, but they do not maximize profits and therefore are not offered as a serious replacement. Full transformation to a green energy economy is a realistic option that would come with many permanent jobs, but this is not a choice offered by fossil fuel corporations and the state that subsidizes them to the tune of billions of dollars a year. At the end of the day, an "all of the above" energy policy like that of the Obama administration cannot hold back irreversible climate change.

Maximum Voltage: Destruction of the Human Habitat?

As the dangers escalated and ambivalence intensified, Milgram's authority kept insisting confidently to subjects that "the experiment requires that you continue," a phrase reminiscent of demands made by today's corporate and political elites. And just like Milgram's subjects, many of us experience anxiety about the bleak consequences of our behavior even as we continue to obey out of habit, rationalizing to ourselves that our personal responsibility for the environmental crisis is limited or nonexistent. 

Fortunately, sparks of hope exist. Climate disobedience in America is becoming increasingly common. The avant garde includes people like Tim DeChristopher, who spent 21 months in federal custody for obstructing the leasing of Utah land to oil and gas corporations. Many others have been willing to get arrested as part of a civil disobedience campaign attempting to block construction of the Keystone/XL oil pipeline, including more than 1,250 people at the White House in August 2011. In early August 2013, more than 200 people were arrested for trespassing at a Chevron refinery in Richmond, California, demanding an end to the burning of fossil fuels and a transition to renewable energy. A week later in Idaho, at least 20 others were arrested for blocking the delivery of oil refinery equipment on its way to Canadian tar sands mines. Other nonviolent activists have been resisting mountaintop-removal coal mining by blockading not only the companies that literally are blowing up mountains for profit, but also the investment banks funding these projects, leading to climate arrests from Appalachia to Connecticut. 

When habitual obedience leads to malignant outcomes, the most responsible actors take personal risks and sacrifice their own comfort by refusing to cooperate with the will of authority. Modern, civilized society is a historical achievement that grew out of countless acts of principled and nonviolent disobedience, courageous power struggles with unjust and corrupted institutions over fundamental moral issues.

Not all disobedience is virtuous, of course - defiant behavior that is irrational, impulsive or truly dangerous to others should be avoided. Ethical and effective disobedience is most likely when goals, strategy and tactics are well-devised and the common good is prioritized. (An excellent resource for thinking about tactics is the 2012 book Beautiful Trouble, assembled by Andrew Boyd.)

Since Milgram shocked the world in 1963, the consequences of mass obedience to authority have become considerably more malignant. Today we must confront the probability that continued obedience will lead to the destruction of the most valuable thing we have: a viable habitat. Thoughtful acts of nonviolent disobedience can not only deepen our democracy, they could very well ensure our species' survival.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm in.



peacegoddess said:


> Arise sisters because you have everything to loose if you do not fight back.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Peacegoddess, Thanks for the article. I read every word. I'm just one of those disobedient souls since childhood. Onward!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

In 2010, the Supreme Court handed down one of the worst decisions in its history, Citizens United v FEC. With a narrow 5-4 vote, the Court swept away almost 100 years of precedent in campaign finance law and opened the floodgates for big corporations and wealthy individuals to pour unlimited amounts of money into our elections.

On October 8, the Supreme Court will hear a case that many are calling the next Citizens United -- a case that could completely dismantle what minimal campaign finance regulation we have left and pave the way for unlimited direct contributions to candidates by those wealthy individuals.

Every American needs to speak out for the need to restore our democracy for the people. Thats why Bernie Sanders has introduced the Democracy is for People Amendment (S.J. Res. 11) to amend the U.S. Constitution, and make it clear that the right to vote and the ability to make campaign contributions and expenditures belong only to real people, not big money and corporate special interests.

Grassroots support from organizations like People For the American Way and its members is absolutely vital to move legislation forward to undo the harm of Citizens United and related cases. Lets keep up the fight.

Sincerely,

Bernard Sanders
United States Senator (I-VT)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is much more critical to the nation than any foolishness attempting to defund ACA without giving it a chance. If you believe our nation is not designed to be run by big money instead of individual voters, add your voice to your representatives. Let them know your wishes.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> In 2010, the Supreme Court handed down one of the worst decisions in its history, Citizens United v FEC. With a narrow 5-4 vote, the Court swept away almost 100 years of precedent in campaign finance law and opened the floodgates for big corporations and wealthy individuals to pour unlimited amounts of money into our elections.
> 
> On October 8, the Supreme Court will hear a case that many are calling the next Citizens United -- a case that could completely dismantle what minimal campaign finance regulation we have left and pave the way for unlimited direct contributions to candidates by those wealthy individuals.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was reading this this morning. Is Congress exempt from ACA?

No, they are not. They would have been exempt as an existing employer plan, as are any other. But Grassley of Republican of IA introduced a bill that they would have to purchase coverage through the exchanges to the same limits ($5K indiv, $11K family) they have had in the past.

So, not only is Congress covered by ACA, they are more restricted than anyone else.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you got me with this one (the one with the truck). Can you explain why you posted it?


No particular reason just thought it was funny. If you don't want me to post funny pictures...I won't!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Yoko Ono's poem Cheshire Cat Cry at IMAGINEPEACE.COM

Read it, it is a very haunting insight into the war machine that is the U S.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No particular reason just thought it was funny. If you don't want me to post funny pictures...I won't!


I love funny pictures. Please continue to post. Thanks.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

ACA is the best that has been delivered to the Health Insurance Companies in ages. They are falling all over each other to cash in on new customers. 

ACA will follow Medicare in that it will undergo regular changes probably on a yearly basis and that is good.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am watching the President right now -- he is doing an excellent job in my opinion. what do you all think? I asked the same question on the other site.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I was reading this this morning. Is Congress exempt from ACA?
> 
> No, they are not. They would have been exempt as an existing employer plan, as are any other. But Grassley of Republican of IA introduced a bill that they would have to purchase coverage through the exchanges to the same limits ($5K indiv, $11K family) they have had in the past.
> 
> So, not only is Congress covered by ACA, they are more restricted than anyone else.


Here is an article to explain how congress got on the ACA, all because of my wonderful senator. Sometimes his stupidity turns around and bites him in the a--.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/14/20021898-congress-isnt-exempt-from-obamacare?lite


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am watching the President right now -- he is doing an excellent job in my opinion. what do you all think? I asked the same question on the other site.


Shirley, I have never been prouder of President Obama and the Democrats in Congress for standing their ground. Time and time again they tried to compromise with the Republicans but the Tea Party faction is the tail wagging the dog. It is Boehner who can't keep the Republicans in the House together and I am sure Boehner's days are numbered. The Republican Party got what Ryan wanted on the budget amount and they wouldn't even approve their own amount. The real target was to get rid of ACA or postpone it for at least a year and the President and Democrats said nothing doing. It's the law and you don't hold the people of your own country as hostage to promote your own political agenda. The mess was made by the Tea Party and it is now up to them to clean it up. They are not leaders just a bunch of very immature youngsters and as they said they had to touch the hot stove to learn some things are not only damaging but very stupid.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley, I have never been prouder of President Obama and the Democrats in Congress for standing their ground. Time and time again they tried to compromise with the Republicans but the Tea Party faction is the tail wagging the dog. It is Boehner who can't keep the Republicans in the House together and I am sure Boehner's days are numbered. The Republican Party got what Ryan wanted on the budget amount and they wouldn't even approve their own amount. The real target was to get rid of ACA or postpone it for at least a year and the President and Democrats said nothing doing. It's the law and you don't hold the people of your own country as hostage to promote your own political agenda. The mess was made by the Tea Party and it is now up to them to clean it up. They are not leaders just a bunch of very immature youngsters and as they said they had to touch the hot stove to learn some things are not only damaging but very stupid.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The senate passed a budget 6 months ago and have been trying to get Boehner and his gang to have a conference with them to iron out the differences, but they refused. Now last night at midnight they were talking about a conference. The dems said no. Why would they agree to it now and do it with a gun held to their heads. Boehner needs to just let the house vote and he won't cause the ta baggers won't let them. He is the weakest speaker ever.
Last night on Rachel she had a video of Westmoreland from Georgia who in 2010 said when we get control of the house we will shut the government down. This was before the 2010 election. He said people will be saying so & so didn't get their check, or this or that will be closed, but I need you to be with us and the audience applauded.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


He made it so much clearer to someone like me. I think this is a good start for a Govt. medical plan. I understand people are signing up in droves - in fact they have overloaded the sites in all the States from the sounds of things. I just watched Dr. Sanje Gupta who gave even more information that I found very interesting .

I just get so sick of the politicians who won't tell the truth and who twist everything. I am so glad I don't live in the States - sorry, but that is what I feel right now.

Former Gov. Huntsman from Utah is speaking now. He was a Republican? he thinks they should hold off for a few months making any decisions - says both sides are at fault - -- which doesn't make much sense to me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> The senate passed a budget 6 months ago and have been trying to get Boehner and his gang to have a conference with them to iron out the differences, but they refused. Now last night at midnight they were talking about a conference. The dems said no. Why would they agree to it now and do it with a gun held to their heads. Boehner needs to just let the house vote and he won't cause the ta baggers won't let them. He is the weakest speaker ever.


It's like talking to a rock. I've tried over and over to tell them this, but because they don't listen to anyone but Ted Cruz or Paul Ryan, you can' tell these people anything.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> Here is an article to explain how congress got on the ACA, all because of my wonderful senator. Sometimes his stupidity turns around and bites him in the a--.
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/14/20021898-congress-isnt-exempt-from-obamacare?lite


Thanks damemary and Norma. The Republicans are such big liars they have become a joke. How can anyone even take them seriously anymore? They have absolutely no credibility. I see righties on KP throwing whatever they can out there to try to take the focus of attention away from the immense blunder their party has made. I have never seen people hold on so tightly to such foolish beliefs. All the old terror stories about Obama have resurfaced again today and one commented that the government shuts down all the time so no big deal. News flash, it was seventeen years ago, Clinton was in and he beat Dole and was reelected for a second term. I guess the Tea Party should have learned the lessons of it's past history but they think they know it all and look what they did now. It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people believe this stuff. They are tiptoeing through a field of cow pies and that field is so deep that they are going to have a lot of cleaning up to do to make things right. That's if they haven't already suffered to much damage and caused to much damage to the rest of the country.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks damemary and Norma. The Republicans are such big liars they have become a joke. How can anyone even take them seriously anymore? They have absolutely no credibility. I see righties on KP throwing whatever they can out there to try to take the focus of attention away from the immense blunder their party has made. I have never seen people hold on so tightly to such foolish beliefs. All the old terror stories about Obama have resurfaced again today and one commented that the government shuts down all the time so no big deal. News flash, it was seventeen years ago, Clinton was in and he beat Dole and was reelected for a second term. I guess the Tea Party should have learned the lessons of it's past history but they think they know it all and look what they did now. It would be funny if it weren't so sad that people believe this stuff. They are tiptoeing through a field of cow pies and that field is so deep that they are going to have a lot of cleaning up to do to make things right. That's if they haven't already suffered to much damage and caused to much damage to the rest of the country.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

As someone said yesterday, there are now 3 parties which will just make it more difficult for the repubs to ever win the presidency again. They only win by cheating like they did with all the redistricting.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> As someone said yesterday, there are now 3 parties which will just make it more difficult for the repubs to ever win the presidency again. They only win by cheating like they did with all the redistricting.


Yes, the only reason they have so many seats in the House is because they gerrymandered the old districts.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cruz needs to check his facts before he opens his mouth.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/28/1242168/-Ted-Cruz-Lie-Exposed-By-Student-He-Used-To-Attack-Obamacare-VIDEO?detail=email

I heard the best comment from Bill Maher. He said people have been wondering how Cruz was able to talk on the senate floor for over 21 hours without a bathroom break. But who needs a bathroom break with all that crap coming out of their mouth.

Here is a piece from Vanity Fair, pretty interesting. There is even something about sex in there so the rightes should love it.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/09/republicans-know-obamacare-will-work

Love that Daily Kos--so much interesting information.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> Cruz needs to check his facts before he opens his mouth.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/28/1242168/-Ted-Cruz-Lie-Exposed-By-Student-He-Used-To-Attack-Obamacare-VIDEO?detail=email
> 
> ...


Love it Norma! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

My my what a mess the Tea Party has wrought.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bazinga! See you all later. :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

New York Daily News front page today:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Last night on Jimmy Kimmel they asked people which they liked better, the ACA or Obamacare. They said they liked the ACA better. What rock have these people been living under.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent article. Thanks for posting.



NJG said:


> Here is an article to explain how congress got on the ACA, all because of my wonderful senator. Sometimes his stupidity turns around and bites him in the a--.
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/14/20021898-congress-isnt-exempt-from-obamacare?lite


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huntsman is Republican. There was even talk once upon a time to nominate him for President. He is trying desperately at the moment to avoid suicide for GOP. I think he's too late.



Designer1234 said:


> He made it so much clearer to someone like me. I think this is a good start for a Govt. medical plan. I understand people are signing up in droves - in fact they have overloaded the sites in all the States from the sounds of things. I just watched Dr. Sanje Gupta who gave even more information that I found very interesting .
> 
> I just get so sick of the politicians who won't tell the truth and who twist everything. I am so glad I don't live in the States - sorry, but that is what I feel right now.
> 
> Former Gov. Huntsman from Utah is speaking now. He was a Republican? he thinks they should hold off for a few months making any decisions - says both sides are at fault - -- which doesn't make much sense to me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Last night on Jimmy Kimmel they asked people which they liked better, the ACA or Obamacare. They said they liked the ACA better. What rock have these people been living under.


That doesn't surprise me--with so many bigots in the country, folks are bound to look askance at any measure bearing his name even if they stand to benefit from it in the end. Really sad.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The moderate wing could vote with the Democrats for the good of the nation. The rightie tighties can go pound salt.



NJG said:


> As someone said yesterday, there are now 3 parties which will just make it more difficult for the repubs to ever win the presidency again. They only win by cheating like they did with all the redistricting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Cruz needs to check his facts before he opens his mouth.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/28/1242168/-Ted-Cruz-Lie-Exposed-By-Student-He-Used-To-Attack-Obamacare-VIDEO?detail=email
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Go Bill Maher.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They're all under the same big one. I saw the interview. Hysterical!



NJG said:


> Last night on Jimmy Kimmel they asked people which they liked better, the ACA or Obamacare. They said they liked the ACA better. What rock have these people been living under.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> The moderate wing could vote with the Democrats for the good of the nation.


In the end they might. According to Yahoo News, about half of the House Republicans now appear ready to vote for the "clean" bill.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> New York Daily News front page today:


Patty this is so perfect. I caught a glimpse of it on the news but wasn't sure where it was published. And the idiots are still trying to "make deals". They really don't get it that their hissy fits will not be tolerated in the establishment known as Congress any longer. They had their turn and they blew it big time. Like all babies they don't get it that they got their turn. Maybe they should self deport to some island and leave the rest of humanity alone and like that crazy homophobic minister said about gays, eventually they will all just disappear.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Reform Immigration FOR America

This Saturday, on October 5th, immigration reform advocates and allies will turn out to more than 120 events across the country to demand Congress takes action. We will stand up as one to call on the House to quit playing politics and to pass immigration reform with a path to citizenship this year!

The question is: where will you be?

There's an event happening in your area, and you should join in. 

www.octoberimmigration.org

Through combined action we can accomplish incredible change.

I hope you can join us this Saturday,

Donna De La Cruz
Reform Immigration FOR America


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty this is so perfect. I caught a glimpse of it on the news but wasn't sure where it was published. And the idiots are still trying to "make deals". They really don't get it that their hissy fits will not be tolerated in the establishment known as Congress any longer. They had their turn and they blew it big time. Like all babies they don't get it that they got their turn. Maybe they should self deport to some island and leave the rest of humanity alone and like that crazy homophobic minister said about gays, eventually they will all just disappear.


I laughed so hard when I saw that this morning on the Today show. It didn't take long to get on the net.
I have always had a special place in my heart for New Yorkers!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Reform Immigration FOR America
> 
> This Saturday, on October 5th, immigration reform advocates and allies will turn out to more than 120 events across the country to demand Congress takes action. We will stand up as one to call on the House to quit playing politics and to pass immigration reform with a path to citizenship this year!
> 
> ...


Is it still going despite the shutdown?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it still going despite the shutdown?


Yes. There will be several all over the country. In Minneapolis it will begin at St. Mary's Bascilica in Minneapolis starting at 1:00pm. It will be people of all faiths gathering there and having a communal service and a march. If the link doesn't work just google the name and the information and all the locations are listed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes. There will be several all over the country. In Minneapolis it will begin at St. Mary's Bascilica in Minneapolis starting at 1:00pm. It will be people of all faiths gathering there and having a communal service and a march. If the link doesn't work just google the name and the information and all the locations are listed.


Sounds very interesting!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Just over at Ravelry.LTL said we were all drinking last night.
Were you drinking, Susan, Cheeky, Huck, jelun, dame, al?
Those hags will say anything for attention. 
But it was reported that several people tweeted that the Repubs were drinking during the fiasco last night. One lady said that she passed several Repubs with nasty booze breath. 2 Repubs were spotted at a DC Liquor store all before 9PM.
I wonder how they feel today?
As for our drinking, it was virtual. Such idiots these women can be.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That self deportation would so make my day.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty this is so perfect. I caught a glimpse of it on the news but wasn't sure where it was published. And the idiots are still trying to "make deals". They really don't get it that their hissy fits will not be tolerated in the establishment known as Congress any longer. They had their turn and they blew it big time. Like all babies they don't get it that they got their turn. Maybe they should self deport to some island and leave the rest of humanity alone and like that crazy homophobic minister said about gays, eventually they will all just disappear.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Virtual indeed. Hangovers are for amateurs.



BrattyPatty said:


> Just over at Ravelry.LTL said we were all drinking last night.
> Were you drinking, Susan, Cheeky, Huck, jelun, dame, al?
> Those hags will say anything for attention.
> But it was reported that several people tweeted that the Repubs were drinking during the fiasco last night. One lady said that she passed several Repubs with nasty booze breath. 2 Repubs were spotted at a DC Liquor store all before 9PM.
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In the end they might. According to Yahoo News, about half of the House Republicans now appear ready to vote for the "clean" bill.


But in order to do that, Boehner has to bring it to the floor and the tea baggers have him by the ba--- and won't let him. He is doing all this so he can hang onto his job. What a wimp


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley, I have never been prouder of President Obama and the Democrats in Congress for standing their ground. Time and time again they tried to compromise with the Republicans but the Tea Party faction is the tail wagging the dog. It is Boehner who can't keep the Republicans in the House together and I am sure Boehner's days are numbered. The Republican Party got what Ryan wanted on the budget amount and they wouldn't even approve their own amount. The real target was to get rid of ACA or postpone it for at least a year and the President and Democrats said nothing doing. It's the law and you don't hold the people of your own country as hostage to promote your own political agenda. The mess was made by the Tea Party and it is now up to them to clean it up. They are not leaders just a bunch of very immature youngsters and as they said they had to touch the hot stove to learn some things are not only damaging but very stupid.


I so agree! Our President is doing a great job. Think how much better he could do if he had a Congress that wanted to work with him.

The Republican Party is in deep trouble. It seems to have become incredibly factionalized and is allowing one faction to call the tune the rest of the party dances to. I can't imagine why liberal and moderate Republicans, both in Congress and in general, are allowing this to happen. Doesn't anyone in the GOP have the backbone to stand up to the Tea party and its allies?

I don't think we have a two-party system at this point. Also, the system of checks and balances seems to be out to lunch as well. If the GOP wants to continue to be one of the two parties in this country, it needs to get down to making some much-needed repairs and reorientation so it can represent more than just the ultra-right.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The few Representatives still in the House Monday night went on talking about having a conference and various subjects relating to that, ACA and the budget AFTER midnight when parts of the Federal Government were officially shut down. What was the point? There were fewer than a dozen Reps there. Maybe their reason for continuing to speak was to speak to Boehner. I think his days are numbered and that his political career is crashing and burning as I write this. If he had any aspirations to run for President in 2016 he'll have to revise those.


NJG said:


> The senate passed a budget 6 months ago and have been trying to get Boehner and his gang to have a conference with them to iron out the differences, but they refused. Now last night at midnight they were talking about a conference. The dems said no. Why would they agree to it now and do it with a gun held to their heads. Boehner needs to just let the house vote and he won't cause the ta baggers won't let them. He is the weakest speaker ever.
> Last night on Rachel she had a video of Westmoreland from Georgia who in 2010 said when we get control of the house we will shut the government down. This was before the 2010 election. He said people will be saying so & so didn't get their check, or this or that will be closed, but I need you to be with us and the audience applauded.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Mitch McConnell said, if reelected he will "go back and be Barack Obama's worst nightmare for the last two years of his presidency." Richmond Register, 6/16/13

The thing is there are people out there who will vote for him just because that is what he wants to do. They have no respect for the office of president or for our country. I think republican is becoming a dirty word and that there are a lot of republicans who are racists.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just over at Ravelry.LTL said we were all drinking last night.
> Were you drinking, Susan, Cheeky, Huck, jelun, dame, al?
> Those hags will say anything for attention.
> But it was reported that several people tweeted that the Repubs were drinking during the fiasco last night. One lady said that she passed several Repubs with nasty booze breath. 2 Repubs were spotted at a DC Liquor store all before 9PM.
> ...


Now we're seeing the result of alcohol on already-addled repub brains. What a bunch of crazies!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Night ladies!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Now that was funny, Janie! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just over at Ravelry.LTL said we were all drinking last night.
> Were you drinking, Susan, Cheeky, Huck, jelun, dame, al?
> Those hags will say anything for attention.
> But it was reported that several people tweeted that the Repubs were drinking during the fiasco last night. One lady said that she passed several Repubs with nasty booze breath. 2 Repubs were spotted at a DC Liquor store all before 9PM.
> ...


I may have had one too many glasses of diet Sprite, Patty. That stuff packs a real punch and the belches are impressive.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I may have had one too many glasses of diet Sprite, Patty. That stuff packs a real punch and the belches are impressive.


So, you got carbonated last night? LOL


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The few Representatives still in the House Monday night went on talking about having a conference and various subjects relating to that, ACA and the budget AFTER midnight when parts of the Federal Government were officially shut down. What was the point? There were fewer than a dozen Reps there. Maybe their reason for continuing to speak was to speak to Boehner. I think his days are numbered and that his political career is crashing and burning as I write this. If he had any aspirations to run for President in 2016 he'll have to revise those.


I think Boehner knows his days are numbered. The only people that Citizens United are funding for upcoming elections are the Tea Party candidates. It will be funny when the people with the money tire of the Tea Party and the gravy train ends for them and they move on to other Republicans to do their bidding. I still think the Tea Party people in Congress are just chumps and they don't even know it or care. They are drunk with the "power" they think they have. The only way they will be able to go on is by becoming a splinter party and I think some semblance of the old Republican Party will reappear. I think there are still some sane Republicans who have had enough of these little boys and they will be sent back home to their mamas where they belong. The world is watching and these TP babies don't even realize how stupid and rediculous they look. Of course when you believe the world rotates around your own navel you can't expect anything more from them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The few Representatives still in the House Monday night went on talking about having a conference and various subjects relating to that, ACA and the budget AFTER midnight when parts of the Federal Government were officially shut down. What was the point? There were fewer than a dozen Reps there. Maybe their reason for continuing to speak was to speak to Boehner. I think his days are numbered and that his political career is crashing and burning as I write this. If he had any aspirations to run for President in 2016 he'll have to revise those.


I think Boehner knows his days are numbered. The only people that Citizens United are funding for upcoming elections are the Tea Party candidates. It will be funny when the people with the money tire of the Tea Party and the gravy train ends for them and they move on to other Republicans to do their bidding. I still think the Tea Party people in Congress are just chumps and they don't even know it or care. They are drunk with the "power" they think they have. The only way they will be able to go on is by becoming a splinter party and I think some semblance of the old Republican Party will reappear. I think there are still some sane Republicans who have had enough of these little boys and they will be sent back home to their mamas where they belong. The world is watching and these TP babies don't even realize how stupid and rediculous they look. Of course when you believe the world rotates around your own navel you can't expect anything more from them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So, you got carbonated last night? LOL


Yes, I must confess I did Patty but it sure felt good.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Night ladies!


Good night, Janeway. I love your cartoon and your avatar too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think Boehner knows his days are numbered. The only people that Citizens United are funding for upcoming elections are the Tea Party candidates. It will be funny when the people with the money tire of the Tea Party and the gravy train ends for them and they move on to other Republicans to do their bidding. I still think the Tea Party people in Congress are just chumps and they don't even know it or care. They are drunk with the "power" they think they have. The only way they will be able to go on is by becoming a splinter party and I think some semblance of the old Republican Party will reappear. I think there are still some sane Republicans who have had enough of these little boys and they will be sent back home to their mamas where they belong. The world is watching and these TP babies don't even realize how stupid and rediculous they look. Of course when you believe the world rotates around your own navel you can't expect anything more from them.


Amen to that sister! Did you see my post in S&O quoting Grover Norquist? Pretty interesting coming from him of all people.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I ried to say something sensible but it's bazinga time for me.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/56922-gop-reps-epic-1-minute-beatdown-of-barack-obama-on-house-floor/


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Looks the the GOP is falling apart like a house of cards. Looks like the sane faction may try to take back their party from the TP boys.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Looks the the GOP is falling apart like a house of cards. Looks like the sane faction may try to take back their party from the TP boys.


Absolutely, Cheeky. Enough votes now exist to get a clean bill passed, and Boehner's feeling the pressure. I'm sure his alcohol consumption has increased tenfold in the last few hours.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/56922-gop-reps-epic-1-minute-beatdown-of-barack-obama-on-house-floor/


Is this another one of your porn sites, KPG? You are seriously deranged.
My topic may have been deleted, but the message was sent. People have your number now. They know what you are.
I advise all of the ladies not to open any link that that thing posts.
Don't you have some dumpster diving to do for your bottle caps and crafts?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Did you see the Idiotic Republican congressman from Texas who reamed the Park Ranger/Officer?
He was yelling at HER telling HER that SHE should be ashamed
that the monuments are closed. I could only shake my head at the stupidity of that man. There she is working without pay and this putz is telling her its her fault that the parks are closed.
Only in the eyes of Republicans.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is this another one of your porn sites, KPG? You are seriously deranged.
> My topic may have been deleted, but the message was sent. People have your number now.
> I advise all of the ladies not to open any link that that thing posts.


I already follow that rule.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you see the Idiotic Republican congressman who reamed the Park Ranger/Officer?
> He was yelling at HER telling HER that SHE should be ashamed
> that the monuments are closed. I could only shake my head at the stupidity of that man. There she is working without pay and this putz is telling her its her fault that the parks are closed.
> Only in the eyes of Republicans.


...and FOR the eyes of Republicans. I bet those rightie cameras were whirling like crazy.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you see the Idiotic Republican congressman who reamed the Park Ranger/Officer?
> He was yelling at HER telling HER that SHE should be ashamed
> that the monuments are closed. I could only shake my head at the stupidity of that man. There she is working without pay and this putz is telling her its her fault that the parks are closed.
> Only in the eyes of Republicans.


I saw that. They will wake up at some point and realize that blaming President Obama and Harry Reid is not working. The people are blaming the people responsible--the republicans.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and FOR the eyes of Republicans. I bet those rightie cameras were whirling like crazy.


It was the most pathetic thing I have seen so far today except for you know........


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I already follow that rule.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and FOR the eyes of Republicans. I bet those rightie cameras were whirling like crazy.


It just goes to show you that Republicans have no common sense at all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It as the most pathetic thing I have seen so far today except for you know........


I wonder how the ranger feels at being used as a prop in what's obviously going to be the loser's re-election ad?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wonder how the ranger feels at being used as a prop in what's obviously going to be the loser's re-election ad?


Susan, I hope they do use it. If that is the caliber of people in Congress then it's time to vote them out.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Wendy Davis is running for governor of Texas. It is a good day.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Wendy Davis is running for governor of Texas. It is a good day.


It's a great day! Someone with a brain to go up against Rick Perry. I wil l be watching that race closely.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's a great day! Someone with a brain to go up against Rick Perry. I wil l be watching that race closely.


I think Rick Perry has decided not to run again. He said running for president was an option.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh really!! Then I will make popcorn and watch him in the debate. He was pretty hilarious last year!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What a fiasco in Washington today. My heart goes out to that baby who miraculously survived the ordeal.
The crazies are out on the streets now. 
What was with the ridiculous stunt of the congressmen who showed up in lab coats and stethescopes? Can they get anymore crazy?? Please,save us from them!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's a great day! Someone with a brain to go up against Rick Perry. I wil l be watching that race closely.


Someone with a brain would know that Rick Perry won't be running for Governor again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Someone with a brain would know that Rick Perry won't be running for Governor again.


Do not address me, snake. Slither off and take your stench with you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I saw that. They will wake up at some point and realize that blaming President Obama and Harry Reid is not working. The people are blaming the people responsible--the republicans.


Yes they are, NJG. And the Republicans are blaming park rangers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Someone get the holy water, it's here again!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Soeone get the holy water, it's here again!


Holy water won't even work on that one!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I make it a habit not to open their links.



BrattyPatty said:


> Is this another one of your porn sites, KPG? You are seriously deranged.
> My topic may have been deleted, but the message was sent. People have your number now. They know what you are.
> I advise all of the ladies not to open any link that that thing posts.
> Don't you have some dumpster diving to do for your bottle caps and crafts?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps a "lying idiot" sign around his neck is in order.



BrattyPatty said:


> Did you see the Idiotic Republican congressman from Texas who reamed the Park Ranger/Officer?
> He was yelling at HER telling HER that SHE should be ashamed
> that the monuments are closed. I could only shake my head at the stupidity of that man. There she is working without pay and this putz is telling her its her fault that the parks are closed.
> Only in the eyes of Republicans.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh goodie.



NJG said:


> I think Rick Perry has decided not to run again. He said running for president was an option.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes they are, NJG. And the Republicans are blaming park rangers.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Raid! Lysol at least.



BrattyPatty said:


> Someone get the holy water, it's here again!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The ACA is rolling along and I see the mountains have not fallen down, the oceans haven't evaporated, and the sky hasn't fallen. 
I wonder what all the frenzy is about out there tonight?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. Time to read. hugs


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Maybe someone already posted this, but it bears reposting Ha ha Rick you misoginist!

Rick Perry's Wife: Abortion a 'Woman's Right'
Monday, 30 Sep 2013 06:10 PM

By Lisa Barron


Texas first Lady Anita Perry told an interviewer that she thinks the decision to have an abortion is "a womans right."

During an interview Saturday at the Texas Tribune Festival, when asked if she thinks her husband, Republican Gov. Rick Perry, and his administration have "got it right" on abortion policy, Anita Perry responded, "Well, thats really difficult for me, because I see it as a womans right. If they want to do that, that is their decision. They have to live with that decision."


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night, Janeway. I love your cartoon and your avatar too.


Thank you as that is the way I feel without coffee! No wonder I've been over weight for several years as I weighed the wrong way!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Most likely, Greg Abbott will run for governor in Perry's stead. Abbott is more rabid than Perry, if you can believe that. I am so excited that Wendy Davis is running and will support her 100%. She would be great for Texas.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think Rick Perry has decided not to run again. He said running for president was an option.


Oh my gosh - I can't believe he is seriously considering this.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Here is a quick read on why the Republicans shut down the government.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-04/why-republicans-shut-down-the-government.html

Interesting things from the Tea Baggers and the evangelists. Still on the birther, Muslim, not Christian thing. Even though he is ending two Republican wars, got #1 terrorist, pulled out the acorns from the fire for the auto industry, has gotten the economy moving again, etc. The Republicans, I believe, are quite mad. Balmy as the Brits would say.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pooped right in his own pants.



peacegoddess said:


> Maybe someone already posted this, but it bears reposting Ha ha Rick you misoginist!
> 
> Rick Perry's Wife: Abortion a 'Woman's Right'
> Monday, 30 Sep 2013 06:10 PM
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is a great platform for Wendy Davis. I predict many more good things for her and for our country.



GWPlver said:


> Most likely, Greg Abbott will run for governor in Perry's stead. Abbott is more rabid than Perry, if you can believe that. I am so excited that Wendy Davis is running and will support her 100%. She would be great for Texas.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome back, GW! Glad to see you.



GWPlver said:


> Most likely, Greg Abbott will run for governor in Perry's stead. Abbott is more rabid than Perry, if you can believe that. I am so excited that Wendy Davis is running and will support her 100%. She would be great for Texas.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's a great idea......for the Dems. Bo could beat him paws down.



GWPlver said:


> Oh my gosh - I can't believe he is seriously considering this.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Balmy covers it. You couldn't make this up.



MindyT said:


> Here is a quick read on why the Republicans shut down the government.
> 
> http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-04/why-republicans-shut-down-the-government.html
> 
> Interesting things from the Tea Baggers and the evangelists. Still on the birther, Muslim, not Christian thing. Even though he is ending two Republican wars, got #1 terrorist, pulled out the acorns from the fire for the auto industry, has gotten the economy moving again, etc. The Republicans, I believe, are quite mad. Balmy as the Brits would say.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Right now I'm ticked off with the Administrative and Legislative branches of what we laughingly refer to as our government. I'm sure the Judiciary will offend me any second now, too. Can we throw them all out and try a new crop of bozos? I keep thinking about 800,000 federal employees being furloughed and their necessary stampedes to apply for unemployment insurance.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Maybe someone already posted this, but it bears reposting Ha ha Rick you misoginist!
> 
> Rick Perry's Wife: Abortion a 'Woman's Right'
> Monday, 30 Sep 2013 06:10 PM
> ...


Yes, I saw that, but I think they made her back away from that. Only thing is she said it and believes it. Can't un say it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isn't it wonderful that Anita Perry has such a wonderful husband who takes the time to tell her what she thinks?
You just have to be careful you don't stick the wrong word in the wrong place. Don't you just hate it when that happens ladies?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/01/2712841/rick-perry-wife-abortion-comments/


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Isn't it wonderful that Anita Perry has such a wonderful husband who takes the time to tell her what she thinks?
> You just have to be careful you don't stick the wrong word in the wrong place. Don't you just hate it when that happens ladies?
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/01/2712841/rick-perry-wife-abortion-comments/


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Gosh, it's been quiet around here. I am still ticked off at the entire Administrative and Legislative branches of the Federal Government. Where are the hundreds of thousands of people who should be marching on Washington DC and demanding an end to the government shutdown? Those 800,000 federal employees are still stuck and Monday morning a bunch of them will be lined up for blocks at their nearest unemployment offices applying for the few crumbs unemployment insurance will pay them, so they won't be able to march on DC.

My trick knee is playing tricks on me and refusing to work at unexpected times or I'd be hobbling to DC myself. Instead, I'm going to have to break down and see my doctor. She's an excellent doctor, but I still don't want to go.

No, I'm not the fat person giving the kiss in my new avatar. I was hiding from the camera, as usual. The guy in the blue shirt is an old (in more ways than one) friend and that's a pic taken recently at his 80th b'day party. His mother lived to 107 and many people are hoping this guy will last at least that long.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I may be in trouble I just said that we should have mandatory abortions when there is poor "family planning".


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone-- Did any one watch Don Mellon's program on CNN just now? (I believe it is live)- he really took on the GOP and one of his guests (name I don't know- but has been on many times) has been doing a study and says that the GOP is really taking a Hit for all the problems. 

He said the health care program is receiving lots of people signups -- (must have fixed the glitches) - and the disapproval rate for the Conservatives has gone up from 55% last week to over 65%-67% and is expected to go even higher the longer they wait. I wish I knew the name of the fellow that he interviewed. He does studies and percentages -- I hope he is correct. I just hope one of you was watching. If you were could you let me know his name? I have watched him often there and on other stations.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone-- Did any one watch Don Mellon's program on CNN just now? (I believe it is live)- he really took on the GOP and one of his guests (name I don't know- but has been on many times) has been doing a study and says that the GOP is really taking a Hit for all the problems.
> 
> He said the health care program is receiving lots of people signups -- (must have fixed the glitches) - and the disapproval rate for the Conservatives has gone up from 55% last week to over 65%-67% and is expected to go even higher the longer they wait. I wish I knew the name of the fellow that he interviewed. He does studies and percentages -- I hope he is correct. I just hope one of you was watching. If you were could you let me know his name? I have watched him often there and on other stations.


Shirley
I didn't watch the show, but maybe it was Nate Silver?? I'm busy knitting this afternoon. My big sis arrives Monday, too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nate Silver would make sense. He had all that publicity about his poll compilations at the time of the election?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Silver

There is a pic of him in there. If that helps.



alcameron said:


> Shirley
> I didn't watch the show, but maybe it was Nate Silver?? I'm busy knitting this afternoon. My big sis arrives Monday, too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think we are just hoping, hoping, praying, that it will be short.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Gosh, it's been quiet around here. I am still ticked off at the entire Administrative and Legislative branches of the Federal Government. Where are the hundreds of thousands of people who should be marching on Washington DC and demanding an end to the government shutdown? Those 800,000 federal employees are still stuck and Monday morning a bunch of them will be lined up for blocks at their nearest unemployment offices applying for the few crumbs unemployment insurance will pay them, so they won't be able to march on DC.
> 
> My trick knee is playing tricks on me and refusing to work at unexpected times or I'd be hobbling to DC myself. Instead, I'm going to have to break down and see my doctor. She's an excellent doctor, but I still don't want to go.
> 
> No, I'm not the fat person giving the kiss in my new avatar. I was hiding from the camera, as usual. The guy in the blue shirt is an old (in more ways than one) friend and that's a pic taken recently at his 80th b'day party. His mother lived to 107 and many people are hoping this guy will last at least that long.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I may be in trouble I just said that we should have mandatory abortions when there is poor "family planning".


Get ready for the hornet's nest to start buzzing, jelun LOL


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

All Boehner has to do is bring a clean bill to the floor to fund the government and there are enough republicans against the shut down that it would pass. Boehner won't do it because he is afraid he will loose his job as speaker. Talk about putting yourself first. He isn't even putting his party first, just the ta party. For any of the posters on here on the right, do you really agree with Boehner and this shut down? Who thinks he should remain as speaker?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Welcome back, GW! Glad to see you.


I believe I have heard too that it will probably be Abbott and that he is way further to the right than anyone else ever thought of being. Boy doesn't he sound like fun. Should just give Wendy a better chance of winning. Hopefully the lawsuit brought by the DOJ has done its thing by then.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> All Boehner has to do is bring a clean bill to the floor to fund the government and there are enough republicans against the shut down that it would pass. Boehner won't do it because he is afraid he will loose his job as speaker. Talk about putting yourself first. He isn't even putting his party first, just the ta party. For any of the posters on here on the right, do you really agree with Boehner and this shut down? Who thinks he should remain as speaker?


You aren't going to get any takers on this one NJG! Does the speaker get more money or is he afraid of losing his status and power?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You aren't going to get any takers on this one NJG! Does the speaker get more money or is he afraid of losing his status and power?


I'm sure he gets paid more for being speaker, but he isn't doing anything to earn it. The tea party is controlling him and telling him what to say. I think it is his status. I read somewhere about him working with this job in mind. As far as power, I don't think he has any, although I'm sure he thinks he does.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I'm sure he gets paid more for being speaker, but he isn't doing anything to earn it. The tea party is controlling him and telling him what to say. I think it is his status. I read somewhere about him working with this job in mind. As far as power, I don't think he has any, although I'm sure he thinks he does.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I may be in trouble I just said that we should have mandatory abortions when there is poor "family planning".


I think you may be right. You may be in a lot of trouble. However, you will have sparked one heck of a discussion. I would be inclined to say that people who have abused or neglected their children should attend a mandatory class about the many forms of birth control and what "family planning" means. The catch is that only people who came to the attention of some authority could be identified and sent to a mandatory class. I'm thinking of something like sending people to anger management classes. I know there are already parenting classes. Maybe the scope of those could be widened.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have thought for decades that people should be certified for childrearing. 
The big question is, of course, how do we prevent pregnancy prior to certification. 
We cannot very well force birth control on people.
This is why we will never solve the poor parenting issues that we have.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I think you may be right. You may be in a lot of trouble. However, you will have sparked one heck of a discussion. I would be inclined to say that people who have abused or neglected their children should attend a mandatory class about the many forms of birth control and what "family planning" means. The catch is that only people who came to the attention of some authority could be identified and sent to a mandatory class. I'm thinking of something like sending people to anger management classes. I know there are already parenting classes. Maybe the scope of those could be widened.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I have thought for decades that people should be certified for childrearing.
> The big question is, of course, how do we prevent pregnancy prior to certification.
> We cannot very well force birth control on people.
> This is why we will never solve the poor parenting issues that we have.


I've long thought that anyone considering becoming a parent should first be required to raise a puppy.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I used to claim that I would rent my kids out to any half of a couple who didn't want to have kids. 
And they were easy when they were little.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I've long thought that anyone considering becoming a parent should first be required to raise a puppy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think puppies should be a graduate course.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I've long thought that anyone considering becoming a parent should first be required to raise a puppy.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think that I just heard that Speaker (koff koff) Boehner says that he hasn't the votes to get a clean bill through the House. I have to check this out. 
Surely he cannot mean even with Dems. 


Oink Oink


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that I just heard that Speaker (koff koff) Boehner says that he hasn't the votes to get a clean bill through the House. I have to check this out.
> Surely he cannot mean even with Dems.
> 
> Oink Oink


I just read there were 21 republicans ready to vote on a clean bill. He just won't do it because the tea party has him by the you know what.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is what I pulled up with "Boehner says he doesn't have the votes for CR"

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+CR&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+cr&sc=0-16&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=bba959397b054e0d93f368639ba0df7f

He is still just playing, IMHO.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is what I pulled up with "Boehner says he doesn't have the votes for CR"
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=Boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+CR&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+cr&sc=0-16&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=bba959397b054e0d93f368639ba0df7f
> 
> He is still just playing, IMHO.


Then it is time to just bring it it to the floor and let them vote and prove it one way or the other. The tea party won't let him, poor baby!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Then it is time to just bring it it to the floor and let them vote and prove it one way or the other. The tea party won't let him, poor baby!


No, they won't--if the votes were truly not there to pass the thing they'd be forcing him to present it, knowing that wold finish it once and for all.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

They don't trust the Dems. HAHAHHAAA



susanmos2000 said:


> No, they won't--if the votes were truly not there to pass the thing they'd be forcing him to present it, knowing that wold finish it once and for all.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> They don't trust the Dems. HAHAHHAAA


I listened/watched Boehner on with George Stephanopoulos? this morning, and he stated that he didn't have the votes. He's demanding that Obama and the Dems "sit down and have a conversation." He must have repeated the sentence about the conversation as often as they tried to repeal the ACA. You can see the hatred every time the president's name is brought up. It's all the fault of Reid and the Dems and the administration. Furthermore, if they don't sit down and have a conversation the US will default on loans and the dollar will plunge. And it's all the fault of the Dems not sitting down to have a conversation. What a pile of crap. I don't really understand how Teddy-boy managed all this. The Koch brothers must be keeping all of them happy with $$$$$.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Talking points, talking points, talking points. 


alcameron said:


> I listened/watched Boehner on with George Stephanopoulos? this morning, and he stated that he didn't have the votes. He's demanding that Obama and the Dems "sit down and have a conversation." He must have repeated the sentence about the conversation as often as they tried to repeal the ACA. You can see the hatred every time the president's name is brought up. It's all the fault of Reid and the Dems and the administration. Furthermore, if they don't sit down and have a conversation the US will default on loans and the dollar will plunge. And it's all the fault of the Dems not sitting down to have a conversation. What a pile of crap. I don't really understand how Teddy-boy managed all this. The Koch brothers must be keeping all of them happy with $$$$$.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Goodnight!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Talking points, talking points, talking points.


There is no need for a conversation about funding the government. These are bills that have already been racked up and need to be paid. This is not the way to protest spending. For Gods they already inflicted the sequester on the people. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again--like try to repeal Obamacare--and expecting a different result, then throw a tantrum and refuse to pay the bills and then as if that isn't enough, you blame the President and Harry Reid. Insane


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Uh huh, and then a chronicle such as 60 Minutes picks this weekend to put on a show about Social Security disability fraud. 
They just want to see if they can get the rabble stirred up a bit more. Tho, to be perfectly honest, I am not sure anyone even pays attention to 60 Minutes anymore. 
I do think that there is a certain amount of fraudulent behavior. I remember a show on public radio, maybe 6 months ago, telling of private companies contracted with WI and a few other places, perhaps Ohio?, to get people on SS disability and away from their unemployment rolls or their welfare payments. I cannot recall which. 
I remember WI because of the Governor there. I was thinking something like pond scum, I think.

Anyway, the tie in to your post IS (drum roll, please) the sequester... if things weren't bad enough already, how the heck is there supposed to be staff to catch this fraud of budgets are being diminished so rapidly? 
Or maybe we should hire private contractors to ferret out the cheaters that the private contractors go on there. Preferably, they can work for the same company and save us some time.



NJG said:


> There is no need for a conversation about funding the government. These are bills that have already been racked up and need to be paid. This is not the way to protest spending. For Gods they already inflicted the sequester on the people. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again--like try to repeal Obamacare--and expecting a different result, then throw a tantrum and refuse to pay the bills and then as if that isn't enough, you blame the President and Harry Reid. Insane


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Squeal little piggy. Ham time.



jelun2 said:


> This is what I pulled up with "Boehner says he doesn't have the votes for CR"
> 
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=Boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+CR&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=boehner+says+he+doesn%27t+have+the+votes+for+cr&sc=0-16&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=bba959397b054e0d93f368639ba0df7f
> 
> He is still just playing, IMHO.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's the Tea Party they shouldn't trust. Then we wouldn't be in this mess.



jelun2 said:


> They don't trust the Dems. HAHAHHAAA


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder where their money is invested. Do they expect the USA to miss payments on their debt?



alcameron said:


> I listened/watched Boehner on with George Stephanopoulos? this morning, and he stated that he didn't have the votes. He's demanding that Obama and the Dems "sit down and have a conversation." He must have repeated the sentence about the conversation as often as they tried to repeal the ACA. You can see the hatred every time the president's name is brought up. It's all the fault of Reid and the Dems and the administration. Furthermore, if they don't sit down and have a conversation the US will default on loans and the dollar will plunge. And it's all the fault of the Dems not sitting down to have a conversation. What a pile of crap. I don't really understand how Teddy-boy managed all this. The Koch brothers must be keeping all of them happy with $$$$$.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Boehner can only remember a few points....goes along with martini time. Isn't it time for Rehab?



jelun2 said:


> Talking points, talking points, talking points.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Uh huh, and then a chronicle such as 60 Minutes picks this weekend to put on a show about Social Security disability fraud.
> They just want to see if they can get the rabble stirred up a bit more. Tho, to be perfectly honest, I am not sure anyone even pays attention to 60 Minutes anymore.
> I do think that there is a certain amount of fraudulent behavior. I remember a show on public radio, maybe 6 months ago, telling of private companies contracted with WI and a few other places, perhaps Ohio?, to get people on SS disability and away from their unemployment rolls or their welfare payments. I cannot recall which.
> I remember WI because of the Governor there. I was thinking something like pond scum, I think.
> ...


Of course, privatize, why didn't I think of that? Then someone can get rich off of keeping others poor. Boy, if it meant more money in their pocket, I'll bet they could ferret out those cheaters.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> Of course, privatize, why didn't I think of that? Then someone can get rich off of keeping others poor. Boy, if it meant more money in their pocket, I'll bet they could ferret out those cheaters.


If the President and the Dems cave in and negotiate ANYTHING, I'll be upset. The administration has tried enough times, it's time for the babies in the House to dry their tears and grow up. I'm so sick of the mess they've created.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thoughts exactly Al.



alcameron said:


> If the President and the Dems cave in and negotiate ANYTHING, I'll be upset. The administration has tried enough times, it's time for the babies in the House to dry their tears and grow up. I'm so sick of the mess they've created.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> My thoughts exactly Al.


You can count me in too!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sources close to embattled Speaker of the House John Boehner says the smell of alcohol is far more prevalent on him these days as the continuing government shutdown showcases his failure as a House leader and his obsession with keeping his job above all else in a deepening national crisis.

The Boehner who emerged form a White House meeting Wednesday night appeared stubborn but also confused and out of control after he spent 90 minutes refusing to budge from his marching orders from House conservatives only to face reporters and claim it was President Barack Obama who would not negotiate.

This is Boehner on his last legs, a frustrated GOP aide told Capitol Hill Blue after the meeting. The continuing capitulation, rambling rhetoric and attempts to drown his ineptitude in a bottle are taking their tolls.

As a recovering alcoholic myself  sober 19 years, three months and 27 days  I can recognize the symptoms of a drunk who has yet to face his problem. Boehner displays many of traits of a heavy drinker who is losing his battle with the bottle.

Tales and speculation about Boehners failure to keep his drinking under control emerge from the Capitol on a regular basis. Stories have appeared over the last few years in Salon, Raw Story, The Daily Beast and Politics Daily, among others.

Former Congressman Bob Ney, the Ohio Republican who went to prison for his role in the Jack Abamoff lobbying scandal, says Boehner is a party animal who would rather drink than govern.

The muddled mess that Republicans find themselves in for the partys sordid role in shutting down the government earlier this week showcases that Boehner is drinking far more than governing.

As the House tried repeatedly to force either elimination or delay of Obamacare in useless votes as the nation faced the deadline that triggered the shutdown this past , those who mixed among Republican members of Congress said the smell of booze dominated in the GOP cloakroom and on the floor of the House of Representatives.

Tweeted reporter Ginger Gibson to The Huffington Post: Im not over exaggerating when I say I can smell the booze wafting from members as they walk off the floor.

The place smelled like a college frat party and not a location where the serious business of running the country was being conducted, emailed one Republican Congressional staffer to Capitol Hill Blue.

Many watchers on Capitol Hill say Boehners obsession with the bottle is outstripped only by his obsession with keeping his job.

Writes Paul Kane in The Washington Post:


A host of dynamics in the GOP have forced him to align himself with a camp of hard-core conservatives who, for much of the past three years, have made his life miserable.

Since Boehner became speaker in 2011, these lawmakers, most of them elected in 2010, have challenged his leadership and questioned his conservatism. They have defied him on one big vote after another, often throwing the House and sometimes the country into disarray.

Boehners unyielding position on the six-week government funding bill, which the Senate passed, is a testament to the power of that conservative bloc and a concession to its members. The insurgents are now his palace guards.

Suggests Brendan Greeley of Bloomberg/Businessweek:


John Boehner could get out of this mess today. As House speaker, he can bring any bill he pleases to the floor. Like any bill, a continuing resolution to fund the government without gutting Obamacare would need 218 votes to pass. This morning Bloomberg News reports that at least 13 Republicans would vote for such a bill in defiance of the partys right wing. Add Boehner and the Houses 201 Democrats, and the nation is just two votes shy of reopening the Lincoln Memorial.

Boehner is not doing this because were not watching a fight between Democrats and Republicans. Its not even, really, a fight between the Tea Party caucus and the rest of the Republican party. The government shutdown is the real consequence of three decades spent trying to answer a metaphysical question: What is a party? John Boehner is stuck with an understanding of party discipline that may no longer be relevantor even good for the Republican Party.

Which raises the question: Is John Boehner dragging the nation down because he puts his job ahead of all else or is his failure to comprehend simply an indication that he is lost in an alcoholic fog?

Source: Capitol Hill Blue/ Politicc


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like time for an intervention for the sake of all.



BrattyPatty said:


> Sources close to embattled Speaker of the House John Boehner says the smell of alcohol is far more prevalent on him these days as the continuing government shutdown showcases his failure as a House leader and his obsession with keeping his job above all else in a deepening national crisis.
> 
> The Boehner who emerged form a White House meeting Wednesday night appeared stubborn but also confused and out of control after he spent 90 minutes refusing to budge from his marching orders from House conservatives only to face reporters and claim it was President Barack Obama who would not negotiate.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I feel the same way, I have thought about that recently as I am sure all liberals have. 
It is one of the bigger disappointments in the administration...the quick cave in. 
The trouble is that SOMEONE has to act like an adult. 
We cannot let that limit go unchanged. It would be disasterous. 


alcameron said:


> If the President and the Dems cave in and negotiate ANYTHING, I'll be upset. The administration has tried enough times, it's time for the babies in the House to dry their tears and grow up. I'm so sick of the mess they've created.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I listened/watched Boehner on with George Stephanopoulos? this morning, and he stated that he didn't have the votes. He's demanding that Obama and the Dems "sit down and have a conversation." He must have repeated the sentence about the conversation as often as they tried to repeal the ACA. You can see the hatred every time the president's name is brought up. It's all the fault of Reid and the Dems and the administration. Furthermore, if they don't sit down and have a conversation the US will default on loans and the dollar will plunge. And it's all the fault of the Dems not sitting down to have a conversation. What a pile of crap. I don't really understand how Teddy-boy managed all this. The Koch brothers must be keeping all of them happy with $$$$$.


I heard Boehner, too. I'm beginning to think he's a weak leader who can't ride herd on his own party in the House. No, I don't think he should try to force any of them to vote in a certain way, but he could certainly encourage the Repubs in the House to cooperate more with each other. At this point it seems that there are several conservative parties, that GOP in the House is now fractured into several parties.

Boenher also seems to hate the President, deeply. As you say, you can see it in hs face everytime the President is mentioned. Looks like John-boy is a mean drunk. It's fine if he hates the President, but he has to do so privately and leave that out of what he brings to the table as Speaker of the House. Harping on a couple of points, serious as they might be, shows he has a lack of ideas about how to handle the current crisis. He needs to stop having his temper tantrum and get down to work.

Keep in mind, too, that if the government has to default on its upcoming payments, Social Security may be impacted by that. There may well be the big march on Washington I've mentioned before, by a bunch of grey-haired, angry oldsters, many of whom know how to protest effectively. Boy, am I ever glad I'm not a part of the current Administration or Legislature.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

You may be right. Puppies are pretty complicated. Maybe would-be parents should start with guppies...


damemary said:


> I think puppies should be a graduate course.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You may be right. Puppies are pretty complicated. Maybe would-be parents should start with guppies...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I always liked the idea of that class with the raw eggs.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I always liked the idea of that class with the raw eggs.


I forgot about that. Perfect place to start. :mrgreen: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I always liked the idea of that class with the raw eggs.


Or a 10-lb. sack of flour.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Or in the case of a bagger a 10 lb sack of ...

TEA, of course.


Poor Purl said:


> Or a 10-lb. sack of flour.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Or in the case of a bagger a 10 lb sack of ...
> 
> TEA, of course.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: of course.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that I just heard that Speaker (koff koff) Boehner says that he hasn't the votes to get a clean bill through the House. I have to check this out.
> Surely he cannot mean even with Dems.
> 
> Oink Oink


There are enough Dems and Repubs who would vote for the clean bill there today. Boehner will not call the vote. He says there are not enough. Maybe not enough teabaggers there, but the Reubs who want to legislate are there willing and able.
If they called a secret ballot, the bill would pass with out a doubt.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm starting to get nervous. I always thought that the effects of default hurting everyone would be daunting. Isn't it time for an Intervention for Boehner?



MaidInBedlam said:


> I heard Boehner, too. I'm beginning to think he's a weak leader who can't ride herd on his own party in the House. No, I don't think he should try to force any of them to vote in a certain way, but he could certainly encourage the Repubs in the House to cooperate more with each other. At this point it seems that there are several conservative parties, that GOP in the House is now fractured into several parties.
> 
> Boenher also seems to hate the President, deeply. As you say, you can see it in hs face everytime the President is mentioned. Looks like John-boy is a mean drunk. It's fine if he hates the President, but he has to do so privately and leave that out of what he brings to the table as Speaker of the House. Harping on a couple of points, serious as they might be, shows he has a lack of ideas about how to handle the current crisis. He needs to stop having his temper tantrum and get down to work.
> 
> Keep in mind, too, that if the government has to default on its upcoming payments, Social Security may be impacted by that. There may well be the big march on Washington I've mentioned before, by a bunch of grey-haired, angry oldsters, many of whom know how to protest effectively. Boy, am I ever glad I'm not a part of the current Administration or Legislature.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bow to your suggestion. At least we saved some puppies.



MaidInBedlam said:


> You may be right. Puppies are pretty complicated. Maybe would-be parents should start with guppies...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I keep hearing that repubs who won't sign (non TP members)
the clean bill are afraid of "being primaried" in their next election. Wouldn't you think that most of their constituents would consider them heroes at this point for standing up against these TP terrorists?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bazinga for now.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I keep hearing that repubs who won't sign (non TP members)
> the clean bill are afraid of "being primaried" in their next election. Wouldn't you think that most of their constituents would consider them heroes at this point for standing up against these TP terrorists?


Not if the constituents are "teahadists."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I keep hearing that repubs who won't sign (non TP members)
> the clean bill are afraid of "being primaried" in their next election. Wouldn't you think that most of their constituents would consider them heroes at this point for standing up against these TP terrorists?


By the time the next election campaign begins, the constituents will have been inundated with so many lies about these Congressmen that they won't even remember the shutdown or who caused it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> By the time the next election campaign begins, the constituents will have been inundated with so many lies about these Congressmen that they won't even remember the shutdown or who caused it.


It is amazing, isn't it?
I bet we could find people out there who are not even aware that there is a shutdown.

I am not a big fan of polls, however, I heard today that Pew ( I think it was) said that 70% of folks from either party said that the shutdown has not affected them directly. 
No wonder Speaker Boehner feels he can wait.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is amazing, isn't it?
> I bet we could find people out there who are not even aware that there is a shutdown.
> 
> I am not a big fan of polls, however, I heard today that Pew ( I think it was) said that 70% of folks from either party said that the shutdown has not affected them directly.
> No wonder Speaker Boehner feels he can wait.


It hasn't affected them *yet*. Maybe it never will. But just let one check come two days late, and they'll be at the barricades. Wait, I take that back. They'll just mill around like sheep, though not as picturesquely as in "The Private Lives of ..."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Getting a passport is a non-essential activity, I hear. 
That could get messy for a procrastinator.



Poor Purl said:


> It hasn't affected them *yet*. Maybe it never will. But just let one check come two days late, and they'll be at the barricades. Wait, I take that back. They'll just mill around like sheep, though not as picturesquely as in "The Private Lives of ..."


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am purposely not responding to any one post as I don't want this to be about anyone. 
Is it just me or does it seem that there is a whole lot of mental illness poking out here and there?
All the muslim, communist, socialist, new world order, frankfurt school crap is really scary. 
But then hey, when I used to try to educate people about "the School of the Americas" they thought that I was nuts too, so who knows. 

It concerns me that there are so many cases of "whoops, we had to shoot this guy/woman dead cuz s/he was mentally ill". 
Everyone just accepts it. The Coalition for the Mentally Ill doesn't say a word. WTHeck.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am purposely not responding to any one post as I don't want this to be about anyone.
> Is it just me or does it seem that there is a whole lot of mental illness poking out here and there?
> All the muslim, communist, socialist, new world order, frankfurt school crap is really scary.
> But then hey, when I used to try to educate people about "the School of the Americas" they thought that I was nuts too, so who knows.
> ...


It began to bother me in the gun-control thread, where so many people were so frightened even in their own homes that they needed guns, plural, around. The School of the Americas scares me, but not enough to make me run out and get a gun.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It began to bother me in the gun-control thread, where so many people were so frightened even in their own homes that they needed guns, plural, around. The School of the Americas scares me, but not enough to make me run out and get a gun.


I don't understand needing or wanting a gun for protection. I may live to regret it some day, but...1. I like to think that I am resourceful enough to come up with an anternative to shooting someone. 2. I really don't think that I can live with killing someone else. 3. I don't want my grandson, who is the only person I can see myself killing for at this point, looking at me and seeing a killer in front of him.

I do see all the fear as a form of mental illness. Not that I can't admit that my abhorence of any killing being a bit off...I don't like seeing a bug killed either.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I don't understand needing or wanting a gun for protection. I may live to regret it some day, but...1. I like to think that I am resourceful enough to come up with an anternative to shooting someone. 2. I really don't think that I can live with killing someone else. 3. I don't want my grandson, who is the only person I can see myself killing for at this point, looking at me and seeing a killer in front of him.
> 
> I do see all the fear as a form of mental illness. Not that I can't admit that my abhorence of any killing being a bit off...I don't like seeing a bug killed either.


I agree about not needing or wanting a gun for myself and as long as people are mentally stable, I don't mind other people having a gun. I agree the fear appears to be a form of mental illness. I see some of these shooters lately as being very fearful and then it continues to get worse till someone or lots of someones dies. I can kill the bugs though, especially the spiders.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree about not needing or wanting a gun for myself and as long as people are mentally stable, I don't mind other people having a gun. I agree the fear appears to be a form of mental illness. I see some of these shooters lately as being very fearful and then it continues to get worse till someone or lots of someones dies. I can kill the bugs though, especially the spiders.


Agree. I wouldn't try to stop other people from having guns if they were licensed and registered, but I don't want one for myself.

When I was a child my dad was very pro-gun--in fact, he was a decorated army sharpshooter and could drill the eye of a squirrel at forty paces. But even he changed his mind after almost shooting a drunken neighbor who wandered into our garage by mistake. Accidents happen--when a gun is involved they're too often deadly.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The bugs, I can't say I don't I just try not to. 
My grandson, perceptive little soul that he is, knows this already. 
He told me he was going to stomp some ants, looked at my face and just couldn't do it. 
That should provide some balance to Daddy the chipmunk killer. Gggrrrr!



NJG said:


> I agree about not needing or wanting a gun for myself and as long as people are mentally stable, I don't mind other people having a gun. I agree the fear appears to be a form of mental illness. I see some of these shooters lately as being very fearful and then it continues to get worse till someone or lots of someones dies. I can kill the bugs though, especially the spiders.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Not that I can't admit that my abhorence of any killing being a bit off...I don't like seeing a bug killed either.


You'd think differently if you had to deal with the 1.5-inch-long bugs that seems to have infested our apartment building recently. Fortunately, our cat is always on the lookout for them, and either catches them herself or leads us to them. But seriously



jelun2 said:


> I don't understand needing or wanting a gun for protection. I may live to regret it some day, but...1. I like to think that I am resourceful enough to come up with an anternative to shooting someone. 2. I really don't think that I can live with killing someone else. 3. I don't want my grandson, who is the only person I can see myself killing for at this point, looking at me and seeing a killer in front of him.
> 
> I do see all the fear as a form of mental illness.


Your reasons are similar to mine. The thought that I would leave somebody dead because he tried to break into my home is disturbing. Only in the less-civilized nations is there a death penalty for burglary or house-breaking. What you say about your grandson makes perfect sense to me (I can't know how that feels because I have no grandchildren because my over-age son doesn't even have a girlfriend, probably because HE'S LIVING IN OUR APARTMENT AGAIN!). (That was me screaming.)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

We seem to have developed a death penalty in the US for shoplifting,for playing music to high, for walking in the wrong neighborhood, for living in the wrong neighborhood... and for being mentally ill. 
My kids were over 35 when they finally presented me with my darling doos. Let me tell you, they are well worth waiting for.



Poor Purl said:


> Your reasons are similar to mine. The thought that I would leave somebody dead because he tried to break into my home is disturbing. Only in the less-civilized nations is there a death penalty for burglary or house-breaking. What you say about your grandson makes perfect sense to me (I can't know how that feels because I have no grandchildren because my over-age son doesn't even have a girlfriend, probably because HE'S LIVING IN OUR APARTMENT AGAIN!). (That was me screaming.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> We seem to have developed a death penalty in the US for shoplifting,for playing music to high, for walking in the wrong neighborhood, for living in the wrong neighborhood... and for being mentally ill.


And all without the expense of a trial.


> My kids were over 35 when they finally presented me with my darling doos. Let me tell you, they are well worth waiting for.


My son's 39th b-day came and went a month ago. But I'll keep collecting patterns for baby clothes, in the hope that I'll need them someday.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> My son's 39th b-day came and went a month ago. But I'll keep collecting patterns for baby clothes, in the hope that I'll need them someday.


That is one good thing about having a male type offspring, no clock.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That is one good thing about having a male type offspring, no clock.


No biological clock, true, but there may be a social clock.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No biological clock, true, but there may be a social clock.


LOL, go read the new posts by LTL on "smoking", it will cheer you RTF up.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Goodnight ladies.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> We seem to have developed a death penalty in the US for shoplifting,for playing music to high, for walking in the wrong neighborhood, for living in the wrong neighborhood... and for being mentally ill.
> My kids were over 35 when they finally presented me with my darling doos. Let me tell you, they are well worth waiting for.


Yes, one must be very careful today. You can accidentally bump into someone who happens to be the wrong person and end up dead. 
Aren't grandchildren the best thing ever. My daughter wasn't married till age 35 and had gc #1 at age 36 and #2 just after turning 40. My older daughter isn't married or attached to anyone so nothing there either. I was just about to give up, but once they met, things moved pretty fast. I remember the day I got the call that they were pregnant, I screamed and yelled. Those two little ones are the best thing that ever happened and I wish it for everyone that wants that joy in their life.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

A picture is worth a thousand words. :hunf:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You betcha, Cheeky!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do.



BrattyPatty said:


> I keep hearing that repubs who won't sign (non TP members)
> the clean bill are afraid of "being primaried" in their next election. Wouldn't you think that most of their constituents would consider them heroes at this point for standing up against these TP terrorists?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please, don't let it be so.



Poor Purl said:


> By the time the next election campaign begins, the constituents will have been inundated with so many lies about these Congressmen that they won't even remember the shutdown or who caused it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It bothers me and I want them to get help, until they start killing people because (fill in the blanks.) Then I loose all sympathy. Just my opinion.



jelun2 said:


> I am purposely not responding to any one post as I don't want this to be about anyone.
> Is it just me or does it seem that there is a whole lot of mental illness poking out here and there?
> All the muslim, communist, socialist, new world order, frankfurt school crap is really scary.
> But then hey, when I used to try to educate people about "the School of the Americas" they thought that I was nuts too, so who knows.
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

We can all relate to that, damemary, it's really hard to have any sympathy for somoene who shot his mother dead and then went on a rampage and killed innocent young children. It is so hard to think of those all those families who will never be the same; brothers and sisters with a hole in their hearts. Mothers and fathers who for the rest of their lives will play the "what ifs" and the "OMG, I should haves" ... but, Adam Lanza's family has that same hell to live with. His brother has lost his family. 
Like substance abuse, mental illness is a disease of denial. 
The fix (meds) for the symptoms are in many cases as bad as the disease. It can take years to stumble on the correct medication mix for someone. Even then, they can live in a lethargic blur, so I guess we can't really say correct meds. Just the best we have to offer right now.

Sorry, I don't really have any point for this. I just misplaced my journal.



damemary said:


> It bothers me and I want them to get help, until they start killing people because (fill in the blanks.) Then I loose all sympathy. Just my opinion.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The Orange man and his best friend 


I have to hope this is photo shopped.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, go read the new posts by LTL on "smoking", it will cheer you RTF up.


Don't miss the post where damemary tells us our rights come to us from the United States Constitution!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So you mean that "right" to bear arms is not delineated in the US Constitution?


knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't miss the post where damemary tells us our rights come to us from the United States Constitution!


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Isn't there any way to force a vote? Some procedural rule or something??? I can't believe one man has that much power.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

She's a cutie, Janeway.


Janeway said:


> Goodnight ladies.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Or is this a sign of how little power he has, sometimes he with the largest stick (gavel) has the least confidence.


shayfaye said:


> Isn't there any way to force a vote? Some procedural rule or something??? I can't believe one man has that much power.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> So you mean that "right" to bear arms is not delineated in the US Constitution?


You've read her idiotic post; you figure it out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Goodnight ladies. My new kitty--Molly


She's adorable.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm just finding that my compassion has limits. I don't want to go on questioning, "Why didn't the family realize the danger and do something....anything?" At some point I find myself saying, "This is such an horrendous crime that it doesn't matter why it was done. It's in the criminal justice system now and no medical reason diminishes the crime."

Once again, it's just my opinion. (And I'm not sure I like myself for having it.)



jelun2 said:


> We can all relate to that, damemary, it's really hard to have any sympathy for somoene who shot his mother dead and then went on a rampage and killed innocent young children. It is so hard to think of those all those families who will never be the same; brothers and sisters with a hole in their hearts. Mothers and fathers who for the rest of their lives will play the "what ifs" and the "OMG, I should haves" ... but, Adam Lanza's family has that same hell to live with. His brother has lost his family.
> Like substance abuse, mental illness is a disease of denial.
> The fix (meds) for the symptoms are in many cases as bad as the disease. It can take years to stumble on the correct medication mix for someone. Even then, they can live in a lethargic blur, so I guess we can't really say correct meds. Just the best we have to offer right now.
> 
> Sorry, I don't really have any point for this. I just misplaced my journal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My post was in the middle of the night and I haven't had time to research it, and I'm not sure I will. You and your minions always seem to find an esoteric point to grasp at while overlooking the meaning.

"All men are created equal" is part of our nation's values, an idea your poster skipped over. That was my point. Take it or leave it.

That's more of a 'retraction' than your side ever admits to.
And that's all you're going to get from me.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't miss the post where damemary tells us our rights come to us from the United States Constitution!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> So you mean that "right" to bear arms is not delineated in the US Constitution?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Jelun, you're a terrific debater. Thanks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let it be true and let them find it soon.



shayfaye said:


> Isn't there any way to force a vote? Some procedural rule or something??? I can't believe one man has that much power.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't this come from the teenie weinie rule of psychiatry?



jelun2 said:


> Or is this a sign of how little power he has, sometimes he with the largest stick (gavel) has the least confidence.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Doesn't this come from the teenie weinie rule of psychiatry?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Probably.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Did you find your journal yet? Have you asked the cat?



jelun2 said:


> We can all relate to that, damemary, it's really hard to have any sympathy for somoene who shot his mother dead and then went on a rampage and killed innocent young children. It is so hard to think of those all those families who will never be the same; brothers and sisters with a hole in their hearts. Mothers and fathers who for the rest of their lives will play the "what ifs" and the "OMG, I should haves" ... but, Adam Lanza's family has that same hell to live with. His brother has lost his family.
> Like substance abuse, mental illness is a disease of denial.
> The fix (meds) for the symptoms are in many cases as bad as the disease. It can take years to stumble on the correct medication mix for someone. Even then, they can live in a lethargic blur, so I guess we can't really say correct meds. Just the best we have to offer right now.
> 
> Sorry, I don't really have any point for this. I just misplaced my journal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's a sarcastic, rhetorical question.....far beyond your ability to understand.

Here is my 'retraction.' 
************************************************
My post was in the middle of the night and I haven't had time to research it, and I'm not sure I will. You and your minions always seem to find an esoteric point to grasp at while overlooking the meaning.

"All men are created equal" is part of our nation's values, an idea your poster skipped over. That was my point. Take it or leave it.

That's more of a 'retraction' than your side ever admits to.
And that's all you're going to get from me. 
*************************************************



knitpresentgifts said:


> You've read her idiotic post; you figure it out.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She's adorable.


Thank you as someone just dumped her on the streets.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as someone just dumped her on the streets.


How awful. Good on you for probably saving her life.

I also like your avatar, if it's what I think it is. Looks like a baby's ruffled bottom and chubby little legs in mommy's shoes. Is that it?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> My post was in the middle of the night and I haven't had time to research it, and I'm not sure I will. You and your minions always seem to find an esoteric point to grasp at while overlooking the meaning.


So your excuse for not knowing what is written in the US Constitution is because it was late at night. :shock:

Thank God you don't have a place in history or any position of authority or any meaningful part of my life. At your age, if you don't know about your own citizenship, country or Nation's history because you didn't get a chance to research the *United States Constitution* last night, you don't deserve to be one of its citizens. Nor is your opinion of value of such concerns.

Even your Liberal friends acknowledged your ignorance as embarrassing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So your excuse for not knowing what is written in the US Constitution is because it was late at night. :shock:
> 
> Thank God you don't have a place in history or any position of authority or any meaningful part of my life. At your age, if you don't know about your own citizenship, country or Nation's history because you didn't get a chance to research the *United States Constitution* last night, you don't deserve to be one of its citizens. Nor is your opinion of value of such concerns.
> 
> Even your Liberal friends acknowledged your ignorance as embarrassing.


Don't ever attempt to speak for me, Cherf, or to put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Don't ever attempt to speak for me, Cherf, or to put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind.


I think KPG/Cherf/Sharkey meant me. I am actually embarrassed that damemary confused the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. This is pretty basic stuff. Perhaps my expectations are set too high.ops:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Imma thinkin'.



damemary said:


> Doesn't this come from the teenie weinie rule of psychiatry?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> Isn't there any way to force a vote? Some procedural rule or something??? I can't believe one man has that much power.


Yes it is a discharge petition and they are going to try it. They would have to get all 200 democrats to sign the petition which should be easy and then 18 republicans would also have to sign. There are enough republicans that have said they want this to end, but the question is would they sign a petition to go over Boehners head? Depends on their district and if they want to take a chance on being primaried or if their district is less tea party people and more sane people.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Don't ever attempt to speak for me, Cherf, or to put words in my mouth. I said nothing of the kind.


Paranoia setting in Shemal? Who mentioned you? I didn't! It isn't always about you sweetie.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think KPG/Cherf/Sharkey meant me. I am actually embarrassed that damemary confused the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. This is pretty basic stuff. Perhaps my expectations are set too high.ops:


 :thumbup: Can't speak for the others, but I was referring to you in my post. damemary's ignorance is appalling for any U.S. citizen old enough, like she, to know better.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Paranoia setting in Shemal? Who mentioned you? I didn't! It isn't always about you sweetie.


You said "friend_s_", snookums. Or did you already forget?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Smell that sulfur and brimstone? I thought Beezelbub was never going to post here again?
Oh well, when has the devil ever told the truth? 
It's preying again. Looking for mispells, or anything it can sink it's teeth into. Why bother with it? The POS isn't worth it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Can't speak for the others, but I was referring to you in my post. damemary's ignorance is appalling for any U.S. citizen old enough, like she, to know better.


She may be a little older than you, but her body is in much better shape than yours and so is her brain. No psychosis on her end. She made a mistake. So? You have too.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So your excuse for not knowing what is written in the US Constitution is because it was late at night. :shock:
> 
> Thank God you don't have a place in history or any position of authority or any meaningful part of my life. At your age, if you don't know about your own citizenship, country or Nation's history because you didn't get a chance to research the *United States Constitution* last night, you don't deserve to be one of its citizens. Nor is your opinion of value of such concerns.
> 
> Even your Liberal friends acknowledged your ignorance as embarrassing.


Off topic, but am curious if your avatar is a Dale Chihuly.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I can answer that for you peacegoddess. It is not Chihuly.
It is "bowling ball by Cheryl." or Cherf/KPG/tuesflight911


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Can't speak for the others, but I was referring to you in my post. damemary's ignorance is appalling for any U.S. citizen old enough, like she, to know better.


The thought that you think you are insulting dame is hilarious.
She has more knowledge and class than you can only dream of having. Be gone beast. You stink.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How awful. Good on you for probably saving her life.
> 
> I also like your avatar, if it's what I think it is. Looks like a baby's ruffled bottom and chubby little legs in mommy's shoes. Is that it?


The quote says Marilyn Monroe.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can answer that for you peacegoddess. It is not Chihuly.
> It is "bowling ball by Cheryl." or Cherf/KPG/tuesflight911


Sorry, Bratty but you are wrong, wrong, wrong!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Imma thinkin'.


Look, look at this!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That pic is as a day older than dirt. Must be your age, Janie.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That pic is as a day older than dirt. Must be your age, Janie.


Yes, it could be my age but this surfaced again & again!


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Whaaaaa
Is this a joke ? Do you know anything about Photo Shop at all?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Whaaaaa
> Is this a joke ? Do you know anything about Photo Shop at all?


No Mindy, she does not. Unfortunately for us.....


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, it could be my age but this surfaced again & again!


If you keep clicking on it, it will keep appearing.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Boy, aren't those righties gullible. They will believe just about anything, and they never check anything before they post it, so proud of what they have found. The idiot that faked this card didn't even bother to change the ID number. How stupid. Janeway, can't you do better than that?

An e-mail is now being circulated which shows a picture of Obama's Columbia ID card, with his picture and the name Barry Soetoro, and at the bottom is printed FOREIGN STUDENT.

Origins: Numerous rumors have been circulated over the years claiming that Barack Obama attended college in the United States as a foreign student and/or under the name Barry Soetoro (the latter reflecting the surname of his Indonesian stepfather), evidence which would supposedly demonstrate that at some point in his life Barack Obama was not a U.S. citizen and is therefore ineligible to hold the office of President of the United States. The image displayed here of a purported 1981 Columbia University student ID card identifying Barack Obama as a "foreign student" named "Barry Soetoro" is yet another entry in this vein.

However, the ID card pictured above is not a real Columbia University student ID issued to Barack Obama (under any name) in 1981; it's simply an altered version of a Columbia University ID card issued to another student in 1998:


Aditionally, the pictured card couldn't possibly have have been a Columbia University student ID issued to Barack Obama in 1981, as the digital ID card format it uses wasn't introduced at Columbia until 1996.

Finally, the pictured ID card is obviously a forgery, as the photograph it bears is not a picture of a 20-year-old Barack Obama from 1981; it's a picture taken several years later, during or shortly after Barack Obama's time at Harvard Law School (1988-1991).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Boy, aren't those righties gullible. They will believe just about anything, and they never check anything before they post it, so proud of what they have found. The idiot that faked this card didn't even bother to change the ID number. How stupid.


NJG, you really did your homework on this. Shows how blind they are.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes and here is some more. Will the republicans admit that Ryan's last budget approved by the house will raise the debt by 1 trillion. The repubs approved this budget and I bet if you asked Ryan, he would lie and say not true. I wonder how it raises the debt--tax cuts maybe.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

One has to wonder why anyone would be embarassed over the mistake of another person.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I think KPG/Cherf/Sharkey meant me. I am actually embarrassed that damemary confused the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. This is pretty basic stuff. Perhaps my expectations are set too high.ops:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

HAHAHHAAAAA!


BrattyPatty said:


> If you keep clicking on it, it will keep appearing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> One has to wonder why anyone would be embarassed over the mistake of another person.


Because there are sharks in the water ready to attack. Check out their behavior on Smoking and obamacare #23.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I love word play, I don't do so well with code.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Because there are sharks in the water ready to attack. Check out their behavior on Smoking and obamacare #23.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

And there will be more and more, then they will recycle this one.



NJG said:


> Yes and here is some more. Will the republicans admit that Ryan's last budget approved by the house will raise the debt by 1 trillion. The repubs approved this budget and I bet if you asked Ryan, he would lie and say not true. I wonder how it raises the debt--tax cuts maybe.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I love word play, I don't do so well with code.


What in the world are you trying to say?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes and here is some more. Will the republicans admit that Ryan's last budget approved by the house will raise the debt by 1 trillion. The repubs approved this budget and I bet if you asked Ryan, he would lie and say not true. I wonder how it raises the debt--tax cuts maybe.


No, I'm not wrong about the things you have said as you must be really dumb to believe all of the things the Democrats have forced on you but you still believe.

You need to see the light! Don't call me stupid anymore as I am not but you are ill manered to say other people are stupid.

Go drink a cup of coffee or tea and shut your mouth about me when I am none of your business!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, I'm not wrong about the things you have said as you must be really dumb to believe all of the things the Democrats have forced on you but you still believe.
> 
> You need to see the light! Don't call me stupid anymore as I am not but you are ill manered to say other people are stupid.
> 
> Go drink a cup of coffee or tea and shut your mouth about me when I am none of your business!


Janeway, You sound really angry at NJG, but I don't see where she called you stupid. She was talking about the people who made the fake Columbia ID and said " The idiot that faked this card didn't even bother to change the ID number. How stupid. Janeway, can't you do better than that?" Notice the period after "stupid." The person she called stupid is "The idiot that faked this card." You need to slow down a bit before you let your anger take over your intelligence.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, I'm not wrong about the things you have said as you must be really dumb to believe all of the things the Democrats have forced on you but you still believe.
> 
> You need to see the light! Don't call me stupid anymore as I am not but you are ill manered to say other people are stupid.
> 
> Go drink a cup of coffee or tea and shut your mouth about me when I am none of your business!


I did not call you stupid. The person that made up the fake card didn't even bother to change the ID #. Both cards had the same ID # that is what I said was stupid. I didn't even call the person that made up the ID card stupid. I said it was stupid to not change the ID # if you are going to fake something like that. What is your problem? You call me ill mannered and tell me to shut my mouth and you are all bent out of shape because you think I called you names. Right you are none of my business, but when you put lies out there like you just did, be prepared to be corrected and don't be calling me names either. I think your problem is I had enough proof to prove you wrong and you can't handle it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Just saw a very disturbing video on a town in California where the babies are dying of disease and birth defects, and a waste-management company nearby has been given permission to expand. Where is Governor Brown in all this?

http://www.mycuentame.org/toxicwasteland


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Janeway, You sound really angry at NJG, but I don't see where she called you stupid. She was talking about the people who made the fake Columbia ID and said " The idiot that faked this card didn't even bother to change the ID number. How stupid. Janeway, can't you do better than that?" Notice the period after "stupid." The person she called stupid is "The idiot that faked this card." You need to slow down a bit before you let your anger take over your intelligence.


She would if she could, but, she can't.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Whaaaaa
> Is this a joke ? Do you know anything about Photo Shop at all?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh Lordy!



Janeway said:


> No, I'm not wrong about the things you have said as you must be really dumb to believe all of the things the Democrats have forced on you but you still believe.
> 
> You need to see the light! Don't call me stupid anymore as I am not but you are ill manered to say other people are stupid.
> 
> Go drink a cup of coffee or tea and shut your mouth about me when I am none of your business!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Too bad nobody can find her ball, it would be great if she would just take it and go home.



NJG said:


> I did not call you stupid. The person that made up the fake card didn't even bother to change the ID #. Both cards had the same ID # that is what I said was stupid. I didn't even call the person that made up the ID card stupid. I said it was stupid to not change the ID # if you are going to fake something like that. What is your problem? You call me ill mannered and tell me to shut my mouth and you are all bent out of shape because you think I called you names. Right you are none of my business, but when you put lies out there like you just did, be prepared to be corrected and don't be calling me names either. I think your problem is I had enough proof to prove you wrong and you can't handle it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It took hours for me to bring myself to watch this. 
Strange that California has such a reputation for liberalism and there are so many examples of bowing to HUGE business daily. 
I have to go put this on my facebook, I think I shorted out the post.



Poor Purl said:


> Just saw a very disturbing video on a town in California where the babies are dying of disease and birth defects, and a waste-management company nearby has been given permission to expand. Where is Governor Brown in all this?
> 
> http://www.mycuentame.org/toxicwasteland


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am saying that if you have a problem you should say so, loud and proud. Get it off your chest either in private or public, depending on how you want to handle it.



MaidInBedlam said:


> What in the world are you trying to say?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great work, NJG. Now if only they would see the error of their ways and admit it. I know, I know. I'm dreaming. It's still great work.



NJG said:


> Boy, aren't those righties gullible. They will believe just about anything, and they never check anything before they post it, so proud of what they have found. The idiot that faked this card didn't even bother to change the ID number. How stupid. Janeway, can't you do better than that?
> 
> An e-mail is now being circulated which shows a picture of Obama's Columbia ID card, with his picture and the name Barry Soetoro, and at the bottom is printed FOREIGN STUDENT.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Like the tax on Medical Devices they are counting on to balance their budget, but want to repeal from ACA?



NJG said:


> Yes and here is some more. Will the republicans admit that Ryan's last budget approved by the house will raise the debt by 1 trillion. The repubs approved this budget and I bet if you asked Ryan, he would lie and say not true. I wonder how it raises the debt--tax cuts maybe.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I did not call you stupid. The person that made up the fake card didn't even bother to change the ID #. Both cards had the same ID # that is what I said was stupid. I didn't even call the person that made up the ID card stupid. I said it was stupid to not change the ID # if you are going to fake something like that. What is your problem? You call me ill mannered and tell me to shut my mouth and you are all bent out of shape because you think I called you names. Right you are none of my business, but when you put lies out there like you just did, be prepared to be corrected and don't be calling me names either. I think your problem is I had enough proof to prove you wrong and you can't handle it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> It took hours for me to bring myself to watch this.
> Strange that California has such a reputation for liberalism and there are so many examples of bowing to HUGE business daily.
> I have to go put this on my facebook, I think I shorted out the post.


California may have a reputation for liberlaism, but that's only one side of the coin. It also has a reputation for flaming conservatism as the birthplace of The John Birch Society, Richard Nixon and the state that elected Ronald reagan to be its governor. Heck, look at the huge struggle over equal marriage rights for gay people. Think of the number of people those three things represent.

In California, if you scratch a liberal you will usually find a conservative underneath.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> California may have a reputation for liberlaism, but that's only one side of the coin. It also has a reputation for flaming conservatism as the birthplace of The John Birch Society, Richard Nixon and the state that elected Ronald reagan to be its governor. Heck, look at the huge struggle over equal marriage rights for gay people. Think of the number of people those three things represent.
> 
> In California, if you scratch a liberal you will usually find a conservative underneath.


I agree, Maid. I live in California and, with the exception of the Bay Area, I'd say the situation here can be summed with the phrase "social liberalism, political conservatism". It's a strange combination.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

In a strange sort of way that makes sense. 
The liberal rep that ONLY conservatives bring up,BTW, is really about celebrities most of whom come into California from other areas. They bring their liberalism with them, they don't learn it there.



susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Maid. I live in California and, with the exception of the Bay Area, I'd say the situation here can be summed with the phrase "social liberalism, political conservatism". It's a strange combination.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Kudos to Harry Moorhouse, part-owner of a fast food place in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, who is paying his employees $15/hour because "it's the right thing to do." Wish more employers would have this attitude!

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2013/06/29/news/doc51cdabb5bba55845820793.txt


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I am saying that if you have a problem you should say so, loud and proud. Get it off your chest either in private or public, depending on how you want to handle it.


Well, if that's what you're trying to say, you failed. I would never have gotten that from your cryptic remarks if you hadn't finally told me what you think you've said. Thanks for clarifying. oh, wait, I'm still completely in the dark about what you want to discuss. Please say that loud and proud, OK? I'm too old to try to keep up with you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't want to discuss anything other than my thoughts generally. I was not trying to say anything. 
You SEEMED to be curious about an exchange from weeks ago. I tried to provide some clarification. As I almost always do I attached those comments to what you had posted, I believe. 
It seemed that the more I tried to clarify that small point the more difficult it got.

Sometimes we all need to accept that if we don't understand or don't agree or don't like a certain post we can just not respond. Don't you think?
That is certainly my intention for the forseeable future. Those sharks are must too sharp for me.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, if that's what you're trying to say, you failed. I would never have gotten that from your cryptic remarks if you hadn't finally told me what you think you've said. Thanks for clarifying. oh, wait, I'm still completely in the dark about what you want to discuss. Please say that loud and proud, OK? I'm too old to try to keep up with you.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I don't want to discuss anything other than my thoughts generally. I was not trying to say anything.
> You SEEMED to be curious about an exchange from weeks ago. I tried to provide some clarification. As I almost always do I attached those comments to what you had posted, I believe.
> It seemed that the more I tried to clarify that small point the more difficult it got.
> 
> ...


Uhmm. If you want to say a certain thing you pick the words to express your thoughts. i might have been interested in a discussion with you a few weeks ago but noiw that you've spent so much time being so incapable of getting your point across I don't see the point. Please, get help. Heck, get a GED.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Um, I really don't care if you want to talk to me or not. 
I will not return insult for insult, I have already indicated that I believe there is something wrong with your perceptions. 
Get it fixed or back off.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Uhmm. If you want to say a certain thing you pick the words to express your thoughts. i might have been interested in a discussion with you a few weeks ago but noiw that you've spent so much time being so incapable of getting your point across I don't see the point. Please, get help. Heck, get a GED.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From today's (Thurs., 10/10/13) New York Times, by Gail Collins. If you're not reading Collins every Thurs. and Sat., you're missing some wonderful stuff.

*First, the Good News*
By GAIL COLLINS

Good news: The people who track killer asteroids for NASA are still on the case, despite the government shutdown.

Bad news: A lot of the people who inspect food arent. The folks from the Department of Agriculture who check meatpacking plants are still working. But the guys at the Food and Drug Administration who make routine appearances at, say, the nut-shelling factory to look for vermin, are on furlough. Not to mention a lot of the people who check shipments of seafood or vegetables from outside the country.

Theyre not doing run-of-the-mill import inspections, said Caroline Smith DeWaal of the Center for Science in the Public Interest. The F.D.A. is really falling farther behind with every day.

The House of Representatives has passed a bill to refund the F.D.A. This is part of a Republican strategy to approve the financing of things they like, one by one. Its not entirely clear how popular the agency was before recent news of a salmonella outbreak erupted, but now its right up there with the national parks.

This is how members of Congress fill up their time during the current crisis. The Republicans introduce bills to fund a particularly sympathetic sector of government. The Democrats respond with a proposal to fund the whole government. Then the Republicans say the Democrats are the enemy of veterans, parks, national guardsmen or food inspections.

Why dont we open the parts of government that we agree to? demanded Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.

Well be here in December, doing agency by agency, responded Dick Durbin, the assistant majority leader.

And the Environmental Protection Agency would still be on furlough. Also the Labor Department. And the Internal Revenue Service.

The I.R.S. would probably be the last to return. That would be very tough on people who have serious issues they need to resolve. For instance, my husband, Dan, recently received a notice from the agency announcing that he was dead. Apparently this is a fairly common error, but Dan wants to be bureaucratically resurrected, and theres nobody on the other end of the phone to talk to.

Really, its all personal. In fact, a good way to think about the current standoff is that its a war between people who just want to have the government back and the people who want a new version of government with the priorities of Representative Ted Yoho of Florida.

I am using Ted Yoho because hes a voluble figure in the caucus of right-wing hard-liners in the House who caused the shutdown in the first place. Also in part because I really enjoy writing Ted Yoho. Also because he has also been one of the leading lights in the new crisis over whether to let the country go smashing though the debt ceiling.

Everybody talks about how destabilizing doing this will be on the markets. And youll see that initially, but heck, Ive seen that in my business, Yoho told Jonathan Weisman of The New York Times. When you go through that, and you address the problem and you address your creditors and say, Listen, were going to pay you. Were just not going to pay you today, but were going to pay you with interest and we will pay everybody thats due money  if you did that, the world would say America is finally addressing their problem.

Representative Yoho was one of the very first members of Congress to verbalize the what-the-hey theory of global finance, possibly because he had all that background in debt management from his business, which is being a large-animal veterinarian.

A number of Republicans have begun using their life sagas to support similar theories. We have in my household budget some bills that have to be paid and some bills that we can defer or only pay partially, Representative Joe Barton of Texas said on CNBC. I think paying interest on the debt has to be paid. I think paying Social Security payments have to be paid. But I dont think paying the secretary of energys travel expenses have to be paid 100 cents on the dollar.

This sort of suggests that some members of Congress regard the Department of the Treasury as a vast warren of people with checkbooks, sorting through the mail and writing apologetic notes to Delta and JetBlue explaining the problem. It most definitely suggests that you do not want to lend money to a lot of people in the House of Representatives.

But back to our list:

Good news: The Congressional gym is open.

O.K., possibly only good news if you are a member of Congress. Or a person who enjoys making fun of members of Congress.

Good news: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention called back some of its furloughed employees to try to control that salmonella outbreak.

Bad news: Most of the C.D.C. is still at home, including the ones who work on flu.

And our moral is: Get your flu shot, people. Cook your chicken well. Cross your fingers and pray.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl
It is always wonderful to see a pro express the underlying humor in any nasty situation, isn't it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Poor Purl
> It is always wonderful to see a pro express the underlying humor in any nasty situation, isn't it?


Yes. She's not Molly Ivins, but she's the closest thing we have.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From _The American Prospect_

*Daily Meme: Congress, Better than Ebola!*

Americans are not impressed with Republicans right now. While President Obama's approval rating has ticked up two points this month, the GOP has seen their popularity drop to its lowest levels ever.

By a margin of 22 percent, respondents in the latest NBC/WSJ poll blame Republicans over the White House for the government shutdown.

Also on the country's bad side? Congress writ large. Public Policy Polling found that 85 percent of respondents disapprove of our chief legislative body's job performance.

Just to hit the point home of how bad a position the House is in, let's look at what people have said in the past about a few things people currently like better than Congress.

Witches: "Her mind will always be plotting and scheming and churning and burning and whizzing and phizzing with murderous bloodthirsty thoughts." Respondents preferred witches over Congress by a margin of 14 percentage points.

Cockroaches: "Catching sight of a cockroach usually inspires one of a short list of fairly predictable human reactions: a scream, a churn of the stomach, or a swift stamp of the foot in the critters direction. Or all three." Respondents preferred cockroaches by a margin of two percentage points.

Hipsters: Get the hell out of my city. Respondents preferred hipsters by a margin of nine percentage points.

The IRS: The I.R.S. has demonstrated the most disturbing, illegal and outrageous abuse of government power." Respondents preferred the IRS by a margin of nine percentage points.

Jury duty: "It ranks among the more dreaded phrases in the English language." Respondents preferred the IRS by a margin of 55 percentage points.

Wall Street: "These frauds are worse than common robberies. They're crimes of intellectual choice, made by people who are already rich and who have every conceivable social advantage, acting on a simple, cynical calculation: Let's steal whatever we can, then dare the victims to find the juice to reclaim their money." Respondents preferred Wall Street by a margin of 31 percentage points.

The DMV: "Most everyone who works in my local D.M.V. is rude. These folks should be sent to some sort of customer service training course. And if they aren't pleasant to people, then dismiss them." Respondents preferred the DMV by a margin of 34 percentage points.

However, Congress must be heartened to learn that the country would rather deal with them than Miley Cyrus or ebola.

If the shutdown doesn't end soon though, a preference for twerking or certain death over congressional Mean Girls on repeat might not be too far off.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for the great posts, Purl and jelun. With all the bad stuff that is going on sometimes a good laugh is the only thing that gets you through the day. I am hoping the Dems will make no concessions to the outrageous Tea Party folks and they will reopen the government with no strings attached no later than this weekend. The GOP has to restore sanity in their own party and rid themselves of this crazy minority in their midst that is taking down the whole country.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Kudos to Harry Moorhouse, part-owner of a fast food place in Dearborn Heights, Michigan, who is paying his employees $15/hour because "it's the right thing to do." Wish more employers would have this attitude!
> 
> http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2013/06/29/news/doc51cdabb5bba55845820793.txt


Yes, now if the rest of employers would follow suit things would be heading in the right direction. We need less Waltons and more Morehouse employers.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What the heck are "values voters?" if you don't belong you don't have any? Do they vote their values and not their brains? Geez!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> What the heck are "values voters?" if you don't belong you don't have any? Do they vote their values and not their brains? Geez!


I think that is pretty much it. More of that "we are of high morals and you libs, well... you have none" LOL. 
Except that the real deal is that we don't begrudge someone the opportunity to sleep at night in the summer because they are poor and live in a third floor apartment. 
We would encourage a family to have a TV so that the little ones could have Sesame Street and the like.

Family values? I guess they have them and we don't. Morals and values? I guess they have them and we don't. 
At least until they get caught.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, now if the rest of employers would follow suit things would be heading in the right direction. We need less Waltons and more Morehouse employers.


Those sample people in your local supermarkets? They get paid in the $14.-15. range. The more assertive they are about getting their product off the table the higher their pay rate. 
If companies can pay those folks, I grant you that is without benefits) that much money I don't see why any retail outlets cannot.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Those sample people in your local supermarkets? They get paid in the $14.-15. range. The more assertive they are about getting their product off the table the higher their pay rate.
> If companies can pay those folks, I grant you that is without benefits) that much money I don't see why any retail outlets cannot.


Just for giggles I googled the difference in salaries between Sams Club cashiers and Costco Cashiers. Both are the same type of business.
Sam's Club $9.35 per hour.
Costco $15.06 per hour + benefits.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for the great posts, Purl and jelun. With all the bad stuff that is going on sometimes a good laugh is the only thing that gets you through the day. I am hoping the Dems will make no concessions to the outrageous Tea Party folks and they will reopen the government with no strings attached no later than this weekend. The GOP has to restore sanity in their own party and rid themselves of this crazy minority in their midst that is taking down the whole country.


Cheeky, your avatar is going to prevent that from happening. It is crazy scary. What is it?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that is pretty much it. More of that "we are of high morals and you libs, well... you have none" LOL.
> Except that the real deal is that we don't begrudge someone the opportunity to sleep at night in the summer because they are poor and live in a third floor apartment.
> We would encourage a family to have a TV so that the little ones could have Sesame Street and the like.
> 
> ...


...with their pants down, on the Appalachian Trail.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ...with their pants down, on the Appalachian Trail.


Or in a "wide stance" in a men's room in an airport! 
Lol


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Or in a "wide stance" in a men's room in an airport!
> Lol


Oh, right, Mindy. That guy is the one who kept badgering Pres. Clinton during the Monica mess, saying, "You're a bad man, Mr. Clinton."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, right, Mindy. That guy is the one who kept badgering Pres. Clinton during the Monica mess, saying, "You're a bad man, Mr. Clinton."


I think the word here is hypocrite. They seem to have a lot of them.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Has there been any discussion about George Will leaving ABC and heading to Fox? I, for one, will not miss his stuffed-shirt, listen-to-me-I-am-an-intellectual manner. I wonder how those intellectuals on Fox will accept him??


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What? Freedom Works is broke and has to borrow money?

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/207519/tea-party-fundraising-group-freedomworks-is-broke-as-hell/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Has there been any discussion about George Will leaving ABC and heading to Fox? I, for one, will not miss his stuffed-shirt, listen-to-me-I-am-an-intellectual manner. I wonder how those intellectuals on Fox will accept him??


Only from him, I cannot imagine he will be a favorite over there; too many pretty faces, not enough brains. He must be planning for retirement.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/10/02/george-will-leaving-abc-news-joining-fox-news/


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I am not big on Chris Matthews either. He interrupts too much and talks over his guests so you can't hear either one of them. I didn't use to like the Rev, but I think he has mellowed a lot. He is one to always stress non violence and seems to talk common sense. He just always seems like he is yelling which is kind annoying.


I have to turn the channel when Chris Matthews is on. You are right. Why bother having guests on the show when he talks over them. 
I think the Rev's yelling goes back to his preaching days. 
I just turn down the volume when he comes on. But I do like him.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Ann Romney recently said the entire debt limit/gov shutdown was avoidable - all America had to do was elect her husband! No Democrat in the White House, no Republican ransom demands! (Presumably, she's assuming that no Democrat would ever do this to a Republican president).

The thing is they wouldn't, they are to caring about other people, but she isn't saying much for the republicans, is she.

Tea party members thought Obama had raised their taxes in 2009, even though (1) their taxes had not moved at all and (2) Obama's tax code wasnt in effect, in 2009, they were still paying Bush's tax code and (3) the stimulus lowered all American's taxes, and taxes never went up until 2013, and then only for people whose incomes were over $450k per year.

Just like people who didn't know that Obamacare and the ACA were the same thing, they don't have a clue what is going on in the world they live in.

Paul Krugman (nobel prize winning economist) has said that the conservative movement in this country won't accept the legitimacy of a democratic president - ANY democrat. Is Obama responsible for their craziness because he's a Democrat and he won?

I have always believed that the color of his skin is also part of their problem and I still believe that.

When Reagan was President, they did not care about debt - Reagan tripled the national debt and they responded by making Reagan their hero. When Clinton took office, all they wanted to talk about was debt, saying it was because Clinton was a big spender. Clinton eventually balanced the budget and even made a trillion dollar surplus with his smart policies, but conservatives attacked him then, too - saying that if the budget was balanced and we were finally paying off the debt, then somehow it meant that the American taxpayer had been 'over charged' and were due a 'refund' which meant massively cutting taxes. When Bush was elected, he frittered away the entire surplus with tax cuts, then doubled the national debt. Cheney even said "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" when his party offered to pass the largest deficit in history. Most Republicans said nothing. Now that Obama is president, they are once again making noise about the debt, shutting down the government and threatening default - even though the deficit is falling at its fastest rate in 50 years!

The republicans have been trying to sell off our national parks. Here is an interesting read.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/10/1246005/-GOP-wants-to-SELL-our-National-Parks-not-open-them?detail=email


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ann Romney recently said the entire debt limit/gov shutdown was avoidable - all America had to do was elect her husband! No Democrat in the White House, no Republican ransom demands! (Presumably, she's assuming that no Democrat would ever do this to a Republican president).
> 
> The thing is they wouldn't, they are to caring about other people, but she isn't saying much for the republicans, is she.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You beat me to it, Empress alcameron


alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I am willing to compromise on this one. I would turn the national parks over to states if we can stop using private concerns to take care of our nation's security concerns. 
Both Edward Snowden and the killer at the DC shipyard were checked out by the same organization. 
Slipshod work at a minimum created bad situations all around. 
Dead people were supposedly interviewed to check up on histories. <smh>


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ann Romney recently said the entire debt limit/gov shutdown was avoidable - all America had to do was elect her husband! No Democrat in the White House, no Republican ransom demands! (Presumably, she's assuming that no Democrat would ever do this to a Republican president).
> 
> The thing is they wouldn't, they are to caring about other people, but she isn't saying much for the republicans, is she.
> 
> ...


NJG, this is super.

Remember how, when Bush did his tax cuts, most of us got a whopping $600 (or maybe that was for couples and only $300 for single taxpayers), but the rich got tens of thousands?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> NJG, this is super.
> 
> Remember how, when Bush did his tax cuts, most of us got a whopping $600 (or maybe that was for couples and only $300 for single taxpayers), but the rich got tens of thousands?


I must read back a little more to see how I became an Empress. Is that higher than "queen" or just a different culture?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Must say "good night" for now. Time to watch our Netflix movie.
Your Empress Cameron, V (Long line of Empresses in my family)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> NJG, this is super.
> 
> Remember how, when Bush did his tax cuts, most of us got a whopping $600 (or maybe that was for couples and only $300 for single taxpayers), but the rich got tens of thousands?


I do remember and by the time 6 months had rolled by all the conservatives were saying "what tax cut" I didn't get any tax cut. 
I think that may have been the SS recipients who did only get $250., still...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Must say "good night" for now. Time to watch our Netflix movie.
> Your Empress Cameron, V (Long line of Empresses in my family)


LOL, maybe we can condense it to just Empress 5.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I must read back a little more to see how I became an Empress. Is that higher than "queen" or just a different culture?


We have all become empresses since KPG and/or lackeys decided that not only was Ingried also Huckleberry, but I was, too. To make sure that nobody will be left out, we are all Huckleberry and we are all empresses. Did that make any sense at all?

Time for me to do some reading while my eyes are still open, so I will bid you adieu, Empress Cameron V.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Must say "good night" for now. Time to watch our Netflix movie.
> Your Empress Cameron, V (Long line of Empresses in my family)


An Empress is definitely of higher status than a queen. 
Napoleon's wives were Empresses. Josephine was appalled when he appointed his second wife as Empress, Marie Louise despite being Austrian royalty was mocked by the French court in the beginning.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I must read back a little more to see how I became an Empress. Is that higher than "queen" or just a different culture?


alcameron
you have always been at the top of the royal tree dear Empress. Queen is of a lesser culture.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Money talks and the Koch brothers have an estimated worth of eight billion dollars. What a shame that the country can be bought by the ones with the most money in their pocket and things can get even worse if the Supreme Court gives even more power to "Citizens Koch United".


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Republicans will hate it that all these people will have health insurance.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This was a letter to the editor in our local paper.

Speaker John Boehner said, Its about fairness to the American people. I can talk about fairness. Apparently, Republicans like the health care system as its been because up to now they havent done anything but use it as a campaign issue at election time.

Hillary Clinton attempted to reform it in the 90s and was vehemently opposed. Republicans took over and gave us the gatekeeper system  the system that gave a man given six months to live a one-month approval with his oncologist. In excruciating pain, he was to call every month and wait for an answer. The system that when the hospice nurse determined he needed an ambulance was told by the insurance company to fax the information and theyd get back to her in two or three days. That man was my husband.

Before going on Medicare, a widows private insurance premium and co-pays plus rent left her $76 a month for everything else, taking everything she had, putting her in debt and forcing her to leave her home. This is the system Republicans dont want to tamper with. Thats obvious because they never fix it. That widow is me.

Will God continue blessing a country that insists on treating its people this way? Check the first chapter of Isaiah. I dont claim the Affordable Care Act is perfect, but its worth a try, even if changes need to be made when they see what works and what doesnt.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank God our government is willing to "meddle" in health care provisions so that no other widows should have to go through what you went through.



NJG said:


> This was a letter to the editor in our local paper.
> 
> Speaker John Boehner said, Its about fairness to the American people. I can talk about fairness. Apparently, Republicans like the health care system as its been because up to now they havent done anything but use it as a campaign issue at election time.
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thank God our government is willing to "meddle" in health care provisions so that no other widows should have to go through what you went through.


I agree--NJG's experiences are horrifying. I'm so sorry she was put through that. NJG, you are one gutsy lady. :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree--NJG's experiences are horrifying. I'm so sorry she was put through that. NJG, you are one gutsy lady. :thumbup:


It takes a tough lady to make a KP Empress, Long Live Empress NJG.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Republicans will hate it that all these people will have health insurance.


I did see earlier that Kentucky had over 10,000 sign up. I couldn't find the documentation to back it up, though. I am glad that you found some numbers.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

It's my favorite guy, again, Robert Reich. I know it's long, but so good.

Rise in cynicism is part of hard right's plan

An old friend who has been active in politics for more than 30 years tells me he's giving up. "I can't stomach what's going on in Washington anymore," he says. "The hell with all of them. I have better things to do with my life."

My friend is falling into exactly the trap that the extreme right wants all of us to fall into - such disgust and cynicism that we all give up on politics. Then they're free to take over everything.

Republicans blame the shutdown of Washington and possible default on the nation's debt on the president's "unwillingness to negotiate" over the Affordable Care Act. But that law has already been negotiated. It passed both houses of Congress and was signed into law by the president. It withstood a Supreme Court challenge.

The Affordable Care Act is hardly perfect, but neither was Social Security or Medicare when first enacted. The Constitution allows Congress to amend or delay laws that don't work as well as they were intended or even to repeal them. But to do any of this requires new legislation - including a majority of both houses of Congress and a president's signature (or a vote to override a president's veto).

Our system does not allow one party to delay, amend or repeal a law of the land by shutting down the rest of the government until its demands are met. If that were the way our democracy worked, no law would ever be safe or settled. A disciplined majority in one house could always use the threat of a shutdown or default to gut any law it didn't like.

So the president cannot renegotiate the Affordable Care Act. And I don't believe Tea Party Republicans expect him to.

Their real goal is far more insidious. They want to sow even greater cynicism about the capacity of government to do much of anything. The shutdown and possible default are only the most recent and most dramatic instances of terminal gridlock, designed to get people like my friend to give up.

And on this score, they're winning. The approval rating for Congress was already at an all-time low before the shutdown, according to a poll released just hours before Washington went dark. The CNN/ORC poll showed that only 10 percent of Americans approved of the job Congress was doing, while 87 percent disapproved. It was the all-time lowest approval rating for Congress in a CNN poll.

A recent Gallup survey found that only 42 percent of Americans - also a record low - have even a "fair" amount of confidence in the government's capacity to deal with domestic matters.

And in a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, 26 percent of Americans said they're angry at the federal government, while 51 percent said they were frustrated. Only 17 percent said they are basically content with the government. The share expressing anger has risen seven points since January, equaling the record high reached in August 2011, just after the widely unpopular debt-ceiling agreement between the president and Congress.

It's a vicious cycle. As average Americans give up on government, they pay less attention to what government does or fails to do, thereby making it easier for the moneyed interests to get whatever they want: tax cuts for themselves and their businesses; regulatory changes that help them but harm employees, consumers and small investors; special subsidies and other forms of corporate welfare. And these skewed benefits only serve to confirm the public's cynicism.

The same cynicism also makes it easier to convince the public that even when the government does act for the benefit of the vast majority, it's not really doing so. So a law like the Affordable Care Act, which, for all its shortcomings, is still a step in the right direction relative to the costly mess of the nation's health care system, is transformed into a nightmarish "government takeover."

So here's what I told my friend who said he's giving up on politics: Don't. If you give in to bullies, their bullying only escalates. If you give in to cynicism about our democracy, our democracy steadily erodes.

If you believe the fix is in and the game is rigged, and that a handful of billionaires and their Tea Party puppets are destroying our government, do something about it. Rather than give up, get more involved. Become more active. Make a ruckus. It's our government, and the most important thing you can do for yourself, your family, your community and the future is to make it work for all of us.

© 2013 Robert Reich Robert Reich, former U.S. secretary of labor, is professor of public policy at UC Berkeley and the author of "Beyond Outrage," now available in paperback. His new film, "Inequality for All," is in theaters. He blogs at www.robertreich.org. To comment, go to www.sfgate.com/submissions/#1.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Al, thanks for posting Reich's remarks about cynsism and political involvement. Maybe we have to rethink our cynicism and relaze that the more cynical we become, the more likely it is that we need to pay more attention. Business and monyed interests have an advantage we don't in terms of how loud a dollar can speak, but we still have an obligation to get and keep the government we want.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I just reread this and gave a great sigh of relief that is is actually NOT your experience. YAY!


NJG said:


> This was a letter to the editor in our local paper.
> 
> Speaker John Boehner said, Its about fairness to the American people. I can talk about fairness. Apparently, Republicans like the health care system as its been because up to now they havent done anything but use it as a campaign issue at election time.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Money talks and the Koch brothers have an estimated worth of eight billion dollars. What a shame that the country can be bought by the ones with the most money in their pocket and things can get even worse if the Supreme Court gives even more power to "Citizens Koch United".


Empress Cheeky (or would you rather be Empress Blighter?), I think it's even more than $8 billion. From Forbes:

Sep 16, 2013, 8:08am CDT
Koch brothers' net worth: $36 billion apiece, Forbes says

Just 2 years ago, they only had about $25 billion each. They must work really hard to earn so much. Next to them, George Soros is practically homeless, with only $20 billion.

Everything else you say is undoubtedly true.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It's my favorite guy, again, Robert Reich. I know it's long, but so good.
> 
> Rise in cynicism is part of hard right's plan


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Empress Cheeky (or would you rather be Empress Blighter?), I think it's even more than $8 billion. From Forbes:
> 
> Sep 16, 2013, 8:08am CDT
> Koch brothers' net worth: $36 billion apiece, Forbes says
> ...


Actually, it seems amazing that they've been able to hang onto Daddy's money and make it grow, given the economic and political horse they've chosen to back--namely, the Tea Party. Why would anyone trust them with a dime?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, it seems amazing that they've been able to hang onto Daddy's money and make it grow, given the economic and political horse they've chosen to back--namely, the Tea Party. Why would anyone trust them with a dime?


They don't need trust. They can pay cash.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree--NJG's experiences are horrifying. I'm so sorry she was put through that. NJG, you are one gutsy lady. :thumbup:


It was a letter posted by someone else in our local paper. It wasn't me. Didn't mean to give that impression. I do though feel bad for her to not get the help she needed. All the republicans keep saying is they are doing this for the American people which is a lie. They are doing it for their party and because they hate President Obama.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> It was a letter posted by someone else in our local paper. It wasn't me. Didn't mean to give that impression. I do though feel bad for her to not get the help she needed. All the republicans keep saying is they are doing this for the American people which is a lie. They are doing it for their party and because they hate President Obama.


Whew--glad it wasn't you, NJG! And as for your other statement--I couldn't agree with you more.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Here is another awful story from Texas. Hope Wendy Davis is elected Governor. Maybe she can change some attitudes and fire some people.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/judge-sued-after-sending-teen-back-home-where-she-was-then-raped


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Here is another awful story from Texas. Hope Wendy Davis is elected Governor. Maybe she can change some attitudes and fire some people.
> 
> http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/judge-sued-after-sending-teen-back-home-where-she-was-then-raped


What a horrible story. The poor girl didn't stand a chance.

In a state where they want to make it impossible to have an abortion, where were the Holy Rollers to stop this one, which the girl didn't even want?

And as for the judge, judges who permit such serious crimes to be committed should be held criminally liable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Uhmm. If you want to say a certain thing you pick the words to express your thoughts. i might have been interested in a discussion with you a few weeks ago but noiw that you've spent so much time being so incapable of getting your point across I don't see the point. Please, get help. Heck, get a GED.


MIB
Hmmm! You may want to replace your seat cushion.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a horrible story. The poor girl didn't stand a chance.
> 
> In a state where they want to make it impossible to have an abortion, where were the Holy Rollers to stop this one, which the girl didn't even want?
> 
> And as for the judge, judges who permit such serious crimes to be committed should be held criminally liable.


Poor Purl
Judges like this should become the providers for these children.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Judges like this should become the providers for these children.


Huckleberry, which children? This poor girl was forced to have an abortion, so who should the judge provide for. And if he were sent to prison (which won't happen, I'm sure), he wouldn't have the money to provide for the girl.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MIB
> Hmmm! You may want to replace your seat cushion.


What in the world are you trying to saY?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Some interesting information and be sure to watch the Chris Van Hollen video at the bottom.

Late in the evening on September 30, 2013, the House Rules Committee Republicans changed the Rules of the House so that the ONLY Member allowed to call up the Senate's clean CR for a vote was Majority Leader Eric Cantor or his designee -- all but guaranteeing the government would shut down a few hours later and would stay shut down. Previously, any Member would have had the right to bring the CR up for a vote. Democracy has been suspended in the House of Representatives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/14/1247222/-The-Seven-Lying-Democrats-That-Betroyed-Democracy-and-Joined-GOP-on-HR-368-to-Deny-Vote-on-Clean-CR?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Some interesting information and be sure to watch the Chris Van Hollen video at the bottom.
> 
> Late in the evening on September 30, 2013, the House Rules Committee Republicans changed the Rules of the House so that the ONLY Member allowed to call up the Senate's clean CR for a vote was Majority Leader Eric Cantor or his designee -- all but guaranteeing the government would shut down a few hours later and would stay shut down. Previously, any Member would have had the right to bring the CR up for a vote. Democracy has been suspended in the House of Representatives.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/14/1247222/-The-Seven-Lying-Democrats-That-Betroyed-Democracy-and-Joined-GOP-on-HR-368-to-Deny-Vote-on-Clean-CR?detail=email


Yes, that was a pretty telling maneuver. 
People who are generally not very interested in politics took note of that one.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, that was a pretty telling maneuver.
> People who are generally not very interested in politics took note of that one.


And then they have the nerve to get on TV and say it's the president that wants the shutdown. What hypocrites.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just checking in & it seems like same stuff, different day. Time's a wasting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just checking in & it seems like same stuff, different day. Time's a wasting.


Welcome back, Empress Dame. Same stuff in Washington, same stuff here.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Welcome back, Empress Dame. Same stuff in Washington, same stuff here.


Hello Empresses and welcome back Dame Mary. We missed you. Not sure if they will get something passed in D.C. but I am trying to stay hopeful. I am having a hard time waiting and I feel so badly for all the people it has already impacted. Warren Buffett was on TV last night and said if we default it will not only hurt U.S. economy but the world economy as well. As usual the TP doesn't believe Buffett knows what he is talking about. I am truly sick and tired of the whole lot of them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> And then they have the nerve to get on TV and say it's the president that wants the shutdown. What hypocrites.


And liars to boot!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Patty says I'm doubly titled now. Whooooo hoooo. Looks like they vote tonight. Something must put a stop to this nonsense every few months.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello Empresses and welcome back Dame Mary. We missed you. Not sure if they will get something passed in D.C. but I am trying to stay hopeful. I am having a hard time waiting and I feel so badly for all the people it has already impacted. Warren Buffett was on TV last night and said if we default it will not only hurt U.S. economy but the world economy as well. As usual the TP doesn't believe Buffett knows what he is talking about. I am truly sick and tired of the whole lot of them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Some interesting information and be sure to watch the Chris Van Hollen video at the bottom.
> 
> Late in the evening on September 30, 2013, the House Rules Committee Republicans changed the Rules of the House so that the ONLY Member allowed to call up the Senate's clean CR for a vote was Majority Leader Eric Cantor or his designee -- all but guaranteeing the government would shut down a few hours later and would stay shut down. Previously, any Member would have had the right to bring the CR up for a vote. Democracy has been suspended in the House of Representatives.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/14/1247222/-The-Seven-Lying-Democrats-That-Betroyed-Democracy-and-Joined-GOP-on-HR-368-to-Deny-Vote-on-Clean-CR?detail=email


NJG
those BXXXXXXX have been on a destructive path since day one of President Obama's taking office. So much we learnned in such a short time. We shall benefit from it for a very long time.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Patty says I'm doubly titled now. Whooooo hoooo. Looks like they vote tonight. Something must put a stop to this nonsense every few months.


damemary
they make me more determined than ever. We should be very thankful that Cruz so rapidly rose to the top to expose himself. He could have done so much more damage to he GOP and us. He wrote his obit.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

And nor Darrell Issa is investigating the National Parks Service about why they closed. The republicans caused the government shut down, but he thinks the park service chief should step down. I think we definitely need many more women in congress. Can you imagine a group of women shutting down the government because they didn't get their way.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> they make me more determined than ever. We should be very thankful that Cruz so rapidly rose to the top to expose himself. He could have done so much more damage to he GOP and us. He wrote his obit.


Mmm...I'm not convinced that we can write Cruz off quite yet. Sure we know he's an egocentric mental case who'll eventually self-destruct, but I suspect that's precisely the quality that makes him so attractive to folks like the Koch Brothers. Strap an economic bomb to the little teahadist's chest and set him loose in DC, where he can do maximum damage. They certainly aren't going to cry salt tears if he destroys himself in the process.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They played their hand poorly this time. I think they have lost support. Let's hope we learn from this. No more.



Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> those BXXXXXXX have been on a destructive path since day one of President Obama's taking office. So much we learnned in such a short time. We shall benefit from it for a very long time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can see the writing on the wall when they distance themselves from him. I assume he had a Plan B. I hope it doesn't affect us anymore.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> they make me more determined than ever. We should be very thankful that Cruz so rapidly rose to the top to expose himself. He could have done so much more damage to he GOP and us. He wrote his obit.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since I only get to vote locally, I have devised a set of rules to send a message. I vote a straight Democratic ticket. I withhold my vote when I distrust the Democratic nominee. And I always favor female candidates. I agree that women tend to be pragmatic rather than philosophical. Times they are a changing.



NJG said:


> And nor Darrell Issa is investigating the National Parks Service about why they closed. The republicans caused the government shut down, but he thinks the park service chief should step down. I think we definitely need many more women in congress. Can you imagine a group of women shutting down the government because they didn't get their way.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Time will tell. There's always something to worry about.



susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I'm not convinced that we can write Cruz off quite yet. Sure we know he's an egocentric mental case who'll eventually self-destruct, but I suspect that's precisely the quality that makes him so attractive to folks like the Koch Brothers. Strap an economic bomb to the little teahadist's chest and set him loose in DC, where he can do maximum damage. They certainly aren't going to cry salt tears if he destroys himself in the process.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> And nor Darrell Issa is investigating the National Parks Service about why they closed. The republicans caused the government shut down, but he thinks the park service chief should step down. I think we definitely need many more women in congress. Can you imagine a group of women shutting down the government because they didn't get their way.


Darrell Issa is a real PITA. As soon as he became chairman of whatever House committee he chairs, he started making accusations out of thin air and holding hearings on them. So of course he now has plenty of crap to accuse the Executive of, and he's going to use it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And wasting a lot of money in the process. I think we have to hit on things like that to show GOP is not concerned about all spending.



Poor Purl said:


> Darrell Issa is a real PITA. As soon as he became chairman of whatever House committee he chairs, he started making accusations out of thin air and holding hearings on them. So of course he now has plenty of crap to accuse the Executive of, and he's going to use it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Darrell Issa is a real PITA. As soon as he became chairman of whatever House committee he chairs, he started making accusations out of thin air and holding hearings on them. So of course he now has plenty of crap to accuse the Executive of, and he's going to use it.


Poor Purl
I do not think that Issa is too thrilled with Cruz. Cruz has robbed Issa of some of the limelight. Cantor has been pushed aside as well. What about Rubio the wonder boy? Wonder why the Republicans always attract such Monsters.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> And nor Darrell Issa is investigating the National Parks Service about why they closed. The republicans caused the government shut down, but he thinks the park service chief should step down. I think we definitely need many more women in congress. Can you imagine a group of women shutting down the government because they didn't get their way.


NJG
imagine if Nancy Pelosi would have cried ever? We need more like her.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I do not think that Issa is too thrilled with Cruz. Cruz has robbed Issa of some of the limelight. Cantor has been pushed aside as well. What about Rubio the wonder boy? Wonder why the Republicans always attract such Monsters.


I forgot where I read this, but a few days ago, Cantor's second-in-command set up a meeting for TP House members at a Taco restaurant, and when he got there, Cruz was already running the meeting. _Quelle horreur!_. Rep. 2nd-in-command left in embarrassment.

They attract such monsters bc a lot of what they do is monstrous. I once read a piece on the college Republicans and how they behave toward each other: with cutthroat competition. That's how Karl Rove learned to do the disgusting things he's done. And the party leaders encourage it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> And wasting a lot of money in the process. I think we have to hit on things like that to show GOP is not concerned about all spending.


You got that right. I heard that we lost 24 billion in economic activity because of the shut down, all caused by republicans that are constantly harping about spending. Willing to destroy our credit rating just to make President Obama fail. My senator, Charles Grassley was one of the 18 republicans that voted no in the senate yesterday so there will be another email letter going out to him today.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I do not think that Issa is too thrilled with Cruz. Cruz has robbed Issa of some of the limelight. Cantor has been pushed aside as well. What about Rubio the wonder boy? Wonder why the Republicans always attract such Monsters.


Cruz had a meeting with the tea baggers in the house. I thought he was over stepping his authority a little bit. He is just digging his own grave. In a recent poll the tea party was not seen as very favorable, but among the people that still liked the tea party, Cruz was their favorite. As he continues to dig his own grave, he can take all of them with him.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Cruz had a meeting with the tea baggers in the house. I thought he was over stepping his authority a little bit. He is just digging his own grave. In a recent poll the tea party was not seen as very favorable, but among the people that still liked the tea party, Cruz was their favorite. As he continues to dig his own grave, he can take all of them with him.


I'll come to the funeral. See you there.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> You got that right. I heard that we lost 24 billion in economic activity because of the shut down, all caused by republicans that are constantly harping about spending. Willing to destroy our credit rating just to make President Obama fail. My senator, Charles Grassley was one of the 18 republicans that voted no in the senate yesterday so there will be another email letter going out to him today.


It amazes me and doesn't amaze me that the House Republicans were willing to hold this country and, most of all, us ordinary citizens, hostage. The ransom we paid was the $24 billion and the blot on our reputation worldwide that the Tea Haddists managed to get. I'll say this again. The Republican party is sorely in need of repair.

Meanwhile here in the SF Bay Area, we're have the local light rail system, BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) on strike, putting about 400,000 people on the roads. Coming from a union family, I understand the need for unions. I also understand that everyone in a contract negotiation has to act sensibly. That hasn't happened here.

[email protected] also dodged the public transportation bullet because Governor Brown called for a 60-day cool off period for AC Transit, the bus system that feeds a lot of commuters into San Francisco and also serves the East bay Area to the tune of almost 200,000 riders. I shudder to think what it would be like if both BART and AC Transit were both on strike today.

I know all this is local news and may not mean much to anyone who doesn't live in the affected area, but it's also news about what can happen in a big metropolitan area. It seems like an intense mini-government shutdown to me. :thumbdown:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It amazes me and doesn't amaze me that the House Republicans were willing to hold this country and, most of all, us ordinary citizens, hostage. The ransom we paid was the $24 billion and the blot on our reputation worldwide that the Tea Haddists managed to get. I'll say this again. The Republican party is sorely in need of repair.
> 
> Meanwhile here in the SF Bay Area, we're have the local light rail system, BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) on strike, putting about 400,000 people on the roads. Coming from a union family, I understand the need for unions. I also understand that everyone in a contract negotiation has to act sensibly. That hasn't happened here.
> 
> ...


It means a lot to me, because we will probably face the same thing this January 1, when the new mayor takes office. Bloomberg managed to convince New York's Transit Workers Union to work without a contract for the past three years, which also means without a raise. I think they'll be out for blood when the new guy comes in, and their contract comes up on New Year's Day.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It means a lot to me, because we will probably face the same thing this January 1, when the new mayor takes office. Bloomberg managed to convince New York's Transit Workers Union to work without a contract for the past three years, which also means without a raise. I think they'll be out for blood when the new guy comes in, and their contract comes up on New Year's Day.


The BART strike has been national news for the last few days. One of the problems, as I see it, it that while their contract held them to binding arbitration, but without a contract they don't have to bother with that. I'd like to see a situation where bindnjg arbitration remained in effect even if a contract has expired.

I hope NY City doesn't go through what's happening here in the SF Bay Area. It's blows me away that the NY Transit Workers agreed to working for three years without a contract, and without a raise. It looks like a potential huge crisis will start as soon as NYC's new mayor takes office.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The BART strike has been national news for the last few days. One of the problems, as I see it, it that while their contract held them to binding arbitration, but without a contract they don't have to bother with that. I'd like to see a situation where bindnjg arbitration remained in effect even if a contract has expired.
> 
> I hope NY City doesn't go through what's happening here in the SF Bay Area. It's blows me away that the NY Transit Workers agreed to working for three years without a contract, and without a raise. It looks like a potential huge crisis will start as soon as NYC's new mayor takes office.


There's been so much federal news that I doubt anyone outside the Bay Area even noticed the strike. We've been through transit strikes before, and they're a mess. Most New Yorkers don't own cars, and traffic in business areas is bad enough even when the subways are running. I don't know what Mayor Bloomberg 
promised the workers to get them to keep working, but the sxxx is about to hit the fan.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Cruz had a meeting with the tea baggers in the house. I thought he was over stepping his authority a little bit. He is just digging his own grave. In a recent poll the tea party was not seen as very favorable, but among the people that still liked the tea party, Cruz was their favorite. As he continues to dig his own grave, he can take all of them with him.


That's OK, Cruz can be the favorite now. Remember how the RWNs ran through leaders of the pack in the primary?
If they burn hot they burn fast.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I was talking to a friend today who has a grandson , in college, and working part time. He was working at Younkers Department Store, and was making $7.25 and hour. His friend encouraged him to go to Dillard's and apply and he was hired on the spot for $11.50 an hour. I don't shop at Younkers much anyway, but regardless, I will not be going back. Dillards works for me. This young man was so excited.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I was talking to a friend today who has a grandson , in college, and working part time. He was working at Younkers Department Store, and was making $7.25 and hour. His friend encouraged him to go to Dillard's and apply and he was hired on the spot for $11.50 an hour. I don't shop at Younkers much anyway, but regardless, I will not be going back. Dillards works for me. This young man was so excited.


Yes, that's what we need to do. If we support the employers who pay above minimum wage (and probably train their staff better) we join them in doing the right thing.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I take back what I've said about the Republican Party repairing and reconstituting itself. Let the Tea Haddists continue to fracture the party. Let any subgroup of the Republican Party indulge in divissive actions. If the Republican party is nothing but a bunch of pieces that won't work together, the Democratic Party will stand a much better chance of winning the Presidential election in 2016, not to mention what they may be able to do in Congress before then.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They appear intent upon making it easy for Democrats. I'll take it.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I take back what I've said about the Republican Party repairing and reconstituting itself. Let the Tea Haddists continue to fracture the party. Let any subgroup of the Republican Party indulge in divissive actions. If the republican party is nothing but a bunch of pieces that won't work together, the Democratic Party will stand a much better chance of winning the Presidential election in 2016, not to mention what they may be able to do in Congress before then.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I take back what I've said about the Republican Party repairing and reconstituting itself. Let the Tea Haddists continue to fracture the party. Let any subgroup of the Republican Party indulge in divissive actions. If the republican party is nothing but a bunch of pieces that won't work together, the Democratic Party will stand a much better chance of winning the Presidential election in 2016, not to mention what they may be able to do in Congress before then.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> They appear intent upon making it easy for Democrats. I'll take it.


It's pretty sad, isn't it? 
We seem to have gone from an attitude where it seemed that people were happy to vote for people to an atmosphere that is not nearly so fresh. 
Maybe it was just youthful exuberance that caused me to think that even though my parents wanted Adlai Stevenson to win the presidency that they were content with a result that was different. I believe that we saw the ability to have an election and that define our government was a positive. We saw that as THE sign that democracy works. 
Presently, the claims are (and yes, I have made them, too) that there has been tinkering... that we should have recounts. Even after the 2004 election, however, even after the disappointment in candidate Kerry not fighting the apparent mess in Ohio we settled in and got back to normal with President Bush. 
Each season seems to get worse, what happened to holding our noses and voting?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BTW, I, for one, would love to switch out of Obamacare and over here or to L.L.O.L


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> BTW, I, for one, would love to switch out of Obamacare and over here or to L.L.O.L


No problem as far as I'm concerned, there's no point in having so many threads, is there?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too.



jelun2 said:


> BTW, I, for one, would love to switch out of Obamacare and over here or to L.L.O.L


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Many of us have found lukelucy's new Obamacare thread. I intend to limit my time on either of the Obamacare threads and concentrate on POV and LOLL. Hope to see you here.

hugs


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Many of us have found lukelucy's new Obamacare thread. I intend to limit my time on either of the Obamacare threads and concentrate on POV and LOLL. Hope to see you here.
> 
> hugs


I have been searching for something interesting to post.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ME TOO! Do you think the Obamacare sites kill brain cells. (Obviously doesn't affect those with no brain cells to start.)



jelun2 said:


> I have been searching for something interesting to post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


The Republican Party seems dedicated to allowing divissive elements like the Tea Haddists to have a far greater voice in the Party than their numbers suggest they should have, and to actually be supporting the fragmentation of the entire party. Maybe they should be reminded that "united we stand, divided we fall", but I'd rather they didn't remember that. Let the GOP continue as it is doing now. By the time the 2014 and 2016 elections roll around a fragmented GOP will be actually working FOR the Democratic Party.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello ladies!! Back from visiting my aunt in Albany and attended Rhinebeck. Oh my gosh is that place huge. I was overwhelmed - seriously - so many beautiful fiber and yarns and products. 

Hope everyone is well!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Hello ladies!! Back from visiting my aunt in Albany and attended Rhinebeck. Oh my gosh is that place huge. I was overwhelmed - seriously - so many beautiful fiber and yarns and products.
> 
> Hope everyone is well!


Makes you just want to roll around in the luxurious fibers, doesn't it? 
You haven't missed much around here.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I made the mistake of reading the new Obamacare thread today. I'll never get that half-hour back. What the hell else is there to say after tens of thousands of pages? The gist of all this seems to be:

Obamacare is going to mean the end of the world.
It's not that bad, and why don't you wait and see?
President Obama is the scum of the earth and not even American.
Michelle Obama is unspeakable.
You are all bullying me and it's not fair.
We are on the road to socialism.
Somebody mention Hitler.
You are wrong.
No, you are.
I know everything about other countries' health arrangements and they all stink.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I made the mistake of reading the new Obamacare thread today. I'll never get that half-hour back. What the hell else is there to say after tens of thousands of pages? The gist of all this seems to be:
> 
> Obamacare is going to mean the end of the world.
> It's not that bad, and why don't you wait and see?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

You would have far more to report, but, I have to watch my language. HAHAHAHA


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Think of the good you've done. Your excellent summation of what's being said on the new site and this one, too, can help the rest of us avoid wasting some of oru precious time. I'm going to make a chicken stew and cornbread for dinner. I believe this is a good use of my time and abilities. Thank you! :thumbup: :thumbup:


aw9358 said:


> I made the mistake of reading the new Obamacare thread today. I'll never get that half-hour back. What the hell else is there to say after tens of thousands of pages? The gist of all this seems to be:
> 
> Obamacare is going to mean the end of the world.
> It's not that bad, and why don't you wait and see?
> ...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Think of the good you've done. Your excellent summation of what's being said on the new site and this one, too, can help the rest of us avoid wasting some of oru precious time. I'm going to make a chicken stew and cornbread for dinner. I believe this is a good use of my time and abilities. Thank you! :thumbup: :thumbup:


My pleasure. Your dinner sounds wonderful. If only the rest would go and cook as well...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I really appreciated this little bit of news.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/wisconsin-labor-ruling_n_4139981.html

Wisconsin Judge Faults Labor Officials For Enforcing Scott Walker's Unconstitutional Restrictions

By TODD RICHMOND 10/21/13 09:55 PM ET EDT

Follow:

Scott Walker, Unions, Labor Unions, Wisconsin Suprourt, Labor Officials, Wisconsin, Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission, Wisconsin Labor Ruling, Politics News
.

MADISON, Wis. -- MADISON, Wis. (AP)  A Madison judge on Monday found Wisconsin labor relations officials in contempt for enforcing parts of Gov. Scott Walker's contentious bargaining restrictions despite a ruling that they're unconstitutional, clearing the way for hundreds of school district and municipal worker unions to negotiate with their employers again.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358, thank you for the summary. Now I can skip all the reading. How on earth did you do it in a half-hour?



aw9358 said:


> I made the mistake of reading the new Obamacare thread today. I'll never get that half-hour back. What the hell else is there to say after tens of thousands of pages? The gist of all this seems to be:
> 
> Obamacare is going to mean the end of the world.
> It's not that bad, and why don't you wait and see?
> ...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> aw9358, thank you for the summary. Now I can skip all the reading. How on earth did you do it in a half-hour?


I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.

What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.

And stupidity. And the lack of any kind of sense of humour. And the complete ignorance of anywhere outside the US of A (apart from Benghazi, although it might be a challenge for many to point to it on a map). I am reaching the limit of my tolerance for selfishness masquerading as something else. Oh, and the bullying question. Where the hell did that pathetic refrain come from?

I know many of you have said that the number of those people on here is not representative of your country, but it is bloody depressing. Sorry, it's late here and bleakness overtakes at this hour.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.
> 
> What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.
> 
> ...


I am beginning to wonder how the US continues with so many stupid, stupid, people.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.
> 
> What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.
> 
> ...


Believe me, Aww, the situation doesn't look any better from this side of the Atlantic. It's a given that Americans aren't terribly interested in what goes on in the rest of the world, can't find Japan on the map etc etc--but it's incomprehensible that so many are completely ignorant about domestic legislation like the ACA. They don't know, don't care, won't even bother to do a little research--even as they howl that Obamacare is going to destroy the nation.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am beginning to wonder how the US continues with so many stupid, stupid, people.


Hi jelun - I have given up on the Obamacare thread and I agree with you that there are far too many in the U.S. who are very poorly educated about everything outside their very narrow little insular world. They don't understand how their own country operates let alone what is going on outside of the U.S. I made the mistake of looking at Fox news last night and again today and read some of their printed media they rely on. What they were saying concerning Obamacare was verbatim what the talking heads were saying on fox and what was in the print media. They have no desire to even think for themselves and wait like hungry little birds to be thrown out their daily dose of propaganda and eat their fill and then come out here on KP and regurgitate what they consumed. They are so afraid of what they don't understand and that is just about everything. What they don't seem to get is that knowledge is power and they have freely given over their power to Tea Party control. They have no curiosity, no humor and almost no emotion left in them except fear and hate. They are a most dangerous combination.
When they say the left has everything wrong they should ask themselves when was the last time they challenged anyone from the right on what they are being told. I know their are people on the left who are intellectually lazy too but I believe the majority of us do question those in power and if we find something that doesn't make sense we check it out. I certainly don't blindly trust our government and a lot of what goes on and I send my share of emails and letters and make phone calls expressing how I feel about a wide range of topics. I keep thinking about how the Germans and Italians were so manipulated and others before and after them have gone down the same path and I worry about it happening here. The Tea Party is a pox on the Republican Party and they must rid themselves or it will take them all down.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.


 Tripe is the perfect word for what's being posted.



> What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.


I don't think most of the anti's are capable of looking at it that way. Without being aware of it, they're led by some insanely wealthy (think billions of pounds) people who don't like the idea of spending any money that doesn't come back to them tenfold or that doesn't buy them additional power. Middle-class people don't complain as much about paying taxes as these guys do.



> And stupidity. And the lack of any kind of sense of humour. And the complete ignorance of anywhere outside the US of A (apart from Benghazi, although it might be a challenge for many to point to it on a map). I am reaching the limit of my tolerance for selfishness masquerading as something else. Oh, and the bullying question. Where the hell did that pathetic refrain come from?


I attribute it all to a total lack of curiosity about anything outside their back yard. But they do know which singer is married to which actor, or which sports teams are going to win whatever championship. Sometimes I think the hatred of the new healthcare bill is just another way of rooting against the team you don't support.

The whining about bullying is getting on my nerves as well. You would think that Huckleberry is holding them down while Jelun steals their lunch money and I kick them. The wonderful thing about the internet is that you can turn it off whenever you feel like. But these people seem to get some masochistic pleasure from believing they're victims.



> I know many of you have said that the number of those people on here is not representative of your country, but it is bloody depressing. Sorry, it's late here and bleakness overtakes at this hour.


There aren't even that many on here; they just post the same thing over and over. Some post even worse things, though not as often.

I hope you are having a restful night and wake up feeling less bleak. Is there any news to give us about your daughter's dancing? That would be so much more interesting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There aren't even that many on here; they just post the same thing over and over. Some post even worse things, though not as often.
> 
> I hope you are having a restful night and wake up feeling less bleak. Is there any news to give us about your daughter's dancing? That would be so much more interesting.


Definitely--I'd love to see any snaps you have on hand. She's a beautiful dancer.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I really appreciated this little bit of news.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/wisconsin-labor-ruling_n_4139981.html
> 
> ...


Good for Wisconsin. This is something else learned on the Obamacare thread today. Wisconsin is thriving. Wonder if they still feel that way now, cause everything I have read doesn't say that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.
> 
> What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.
> 
> ...


A lot of Americans believe the US is the center of the universe and that all other countries revolve around the great sun of the US. More tripe. Voices from other countries, like yours, are more valuable than you might imagine. There are people around here who welcome information from outside of the US. Thanks for being here and participating in what is often pretty bizarre behavior.

I don't get that bullying thing either. As far as I can tell the conservatives get hysterical and grab any words they think are loaded enough to distract everyone else from anything like real discussion.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome home GW. We missed you.



GWPlver said:


> Hello ladies!! Back from visiting my aunt in Albany and attended Rhinebeck. Oh my gosh is that place huge. I was overwhelmed - seriously - so many beautiful fiber and yarns and products.
> 
> Hope everyone is well!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I made the mistake of reading the new Obamacare thread today. I'll never get that half-hour back. What the hell else is there to say after tens of thousands of pages? The gist of all this seems to be:
> 
> Obamacare is going to mean the end of the world.
> It's not that bad, and why don't you wait and see?
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're not all the same and the bleakness gets us too. Hang around and join the crew here and LOLL.



aw9358 said:


> I'm afraid I skimmed over a few familiar names. It was the usual dispriting tripe. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to come up with that last word. I had to discard quite a few for fear of offending delicate sensibilities.
> 
> What really irks me is the use of the "s" word at the moment. How is it wrong to spend money to take care of every citizen, when this care benefits society as a whole? Who wouldn't want that? I liken it to universal inoculation: you might not get measles yourself, but you are protecting others from getting it too.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> A lot of Americans believe the US is the center of the universe and that all other countries revolve around the great sun of the US. More tripe. Voices from other countries, like yours, are more valuable than you might imagine. There are people around here who welcome information from outside of the US. Thanks for being here and participating in what is often pretty bizarre behavior.
> 
> I don't get that bullying thing either. As far as I can tell the conservatives get hysterical and grab any words they think are loaded enough to distract everyone else from anything like real discussion.


It's that presentation that we all do in person that they are expecting. 
I am pretty direct irl as well, not nearly as acerbic sounding as here. I am guessing they don't play the victim quite so readily.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi jelun - I have given up on the Obamacare thread and I agree with you that there are far too many in the U.S. who are very poorly educated about everything outside their very narrow little insular world. They don't understand how their own country operates let alone what is going on outside of the U.S. I made the mistake of looking at Fox news last night and again today and read some of their printed media they rely on. What they were saying concerning Obamacare was verbatim what the talking heads were saying on fox and what was in the print media. They have no desire to even think for themselves and wait like hungry little birds to be thrown out their daily dose of propaganda and eat their fill and then come out here on KP and regurgitate what they consumed. They are so afraid of what they don't understand and that is just about everything. What they don't seem to get is that knowledge is power and they have freely given over their power to Tea Party control. They have no curiosity, no humor and almost no emotion left in them except fear and hate. They are a most dangerous combination.
> When they say the left has everything wrong they should ask themselves when was the last time they challenged anyone from the right on what they are being told. I know their are people on the left who are intellectually lazy too but I believe the majority of us do question those in power and if we find something that doesn't make sense we check it out. I certainly don't blindly trust our government and a lot of what goes on and I send my share of emails and letters and make phone calls expressing how I feel about a wide range of topics. I keep thinking about how the Germans and Italians were so manipulated and others before and after them have gone down the same path and I worry about it happening here. The Tea Party is a pox on the Republican Party and they must rid themselves or it will take them all down.


Isn't the worst problem? Failure, or the inability, to compromise? Sometimes I see that as the greatest weakness for the left, that we are so willing to take baby steps toward goals. It is no wonder President Obama gives to much away readily. That has been what he has seen for his whole life in politics. Just be happy with crumbs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Isn't the worst problem? Failure, or the inability, to compromise? Sometimes I see that as the greatest weakness for the left, that we are so willing to take baby steps toward goals. It is no wonder President Obama gives to much away readily. That has been what he has seen for his whole life in politics. Just be happy with crumbs.


For the left I think it has been them giving up too much to the right, both the Congress and the President. I don't think they have stood their ground before now and the right became used to getting their way pretty easily. Of course that wouldn't be what they would tell you but the Dems finally held the line on healthcare and it's about time we said enough is enough. So yes, we do need to be much more bold in the future.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

At least the parks are open.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. I think the President is a consensus builder by nature....and that's generally a good thing.

But I think he's been shaken to his very core by the vitriol that was flung....only because he is a black man (in 2008+) and because they see what they contrive to be weakness.

On the other hand, I think we've all learned a lot. All parties are alike.....but there is a faction of persistent idealists in the Democratic Party who believe to their very core that all men and women are created equal. We've learned to observe and strategize and organize and, above all, to never give up.

We're not where we hope to be, but we've come a long way from segregation to a black President in a few decades. It's harder than I ever imagined for the other side to leave their fears behind.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> For the left I think it has been them giving up too much to the right, both the Congress and the President. I don't think they have stood their ground before now and the right became used to getting their way pretty easily. Of course that wouldn't be what they would tell you but the Dems finally held the line on healthcare and it's about time we said enough is enough. So yes, we do need to be much more bold in the future.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The other side sure is selective about what riles them. They're just not very smart with their photo ops. People see through them clearly.....except for the few....but they sure are stubborn.



Poor Purl said:


> At least the parks are open.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> At least the parks are open.


What a marvelous cartoon. 
I am so pleased that you found this, that connection hadn't come to me at all. I had certainly tried to make the point that WWII vets were/are human and the whole park thing was a stupid ploy. I hadn't gone to the out of bounds reaction in comparison to real crimes against humanity, and that doesn't even take us to human rights abuses through drone strikes in sovereign nations. Thanks again, Empress Poor Purl.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There is nothing Poor about dear Empress Purl.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> There is nothing Poor about dear Empress Purl.


My biggest problem with Empress Poor Purl is that I always like limiting the typing for for her it would Empress PP.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Geez, time flies. Gotta head out! See you all later!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The other side sure is selective about what riles them. They're just not very smart with their photo ops. People see through them clearly.....except for the few....but they sure are stubborn.


They are completely unable to see themselves, to judge how others will see them. It's a serious failing. Good luck to them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> My biggest problem with Empress Poor Purl is that I always like limiting the typing for for her it would Empress PP.


Totally irrelevant story: About 40 years ago, DH and I spent six weeks in England (I was pregnant, and we figured we wouldn't be able to do this again for many years). One of our day trips was to Brighton, which is on the ocean and is a good tourist spot. On the pier that juts out over the water, I found a ladies' room (pregnant, remember), used it, came out and noticed initials on the stonework outside: BM PP . This made us both laugh hysterically, as if we were being given instructions for the use of the facilities. Years later I looked it up; it stands for Brighton Marine & Palace Pier. Not as much fun.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> There is nothing Poor about dear Empress Purl.


I blush, Empress Dame.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

H'lo all. Can I come and play? I'm a refugee from the two Obamacare threads. Ugh.



Poor Purl said:


> They are completely unable to see themselves, to judge how others will see them. It's a serious failing. Good luck to them.


I am almost rattled by the reality of "the other side," to be perfectly frank. I'm well aware of the lies and general deceit emanating from rightwing media -- and politicians, of course -- but to see their hysterically ADAMANT clinging to the untrue, no matter what, is disconcerting, to say the least.

Unfortunately, this is the nature of things. I remember reading about a study that showed that online discussion forums only served to further entrench people itheir own positions.

And another whose details are less clear about how illogical rightwing base is, and that logic (and facts, obviously) just doesn't matter to them, which reminds me of that old maxim to the effect that you can't convince someone with logic if their beliefs are based on emotion.

Looks like a nice group ya got here.

:thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> H'lo all. Can I come and play? I'm a refugee from the two Obamacare threads. Ugh.
> 
> I am almost rattled by the reality of "the other side," to be perfectly frank. I'm well aware of the lies and general deceit emanating from rightwing media -- and politicians, of course -- but to see their hysterically ADAMANT clinging to the untrue, no matter what, is disconcerting, to say the least.
> 
> ...


Please do, they let me in. I am thinking the prerequisite is at least half a brain and a bit of humor.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> H'lo all. Can I come and play? I'm a refugee from the two Obamacare threads. Ugh.
> 
> I am almost rattled by the reality of "the other side," to be perfectly frank. I'm well aware of the lies and general deceit emanating from rightwing media -- and politicians, of course -- but to see their hysterically ADAMANT clinging to the untrue, no matter what, is disconcerting, to say the least.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insight. It's so easy to get drawn into the fights on '"Obamacare" and "Smoking and Obamacare". I haven't figured out why we're drawn into those two topics only to end up fighting with other people. If anyone has any further insight about that to add to what you've said, please post what you think here.

I am endlessly amazed at the behavior of "the other side". I can't imagine living in what looks like a highly hysterical, angry, fearful state. The so-called other side goes from 0 to 60 when it comes to put-downs, rudeness and obvious untruths. No wonder they get the same responses from everyone else. I don't act anything like that in "real" life, and am rarely hysterical, angry or fearful. I've made rude responses and many of you who are reading this have, too. Rational remarks don't work. Rude remarks don't work. Nothing seems to penetrate the thick shells the other side have created for themselves.

So what do we do? I finally managed to "unwatch" "Obamacare". It should have been easy but it wasn't. I'm working up to unwatching S&O. That should be easy, too, and I haven't managed to do it yet. I think we could all unwatch those two topics and still have all the freedom of speech we have now. At least, we could give it a try.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks for your insight. It's so easy to get drawn into the fights on '"Obamacare" and "Smoking and Obamacare". I haven't figured out why we're drawn into those two topics only to end up fighting with other people. If anyone has any further insight about that to add to what you've said, please post what you think here.
> 
> I am endlessly amazed at the behavior of "the other side". I can't imagine living in what looks like a highly hysterical, angry, fearful state. The so-called other side goes from 0 to 60 when it comes to put-downs, rudeness and obvious untruths. No wonder they get the same responses from everyone else. I don't act anything like that in "real" life, and am rarely hysterical, angry or fearful. I've made rude responses and many of you who are reading this have, too. Rational remarks don't work. Rude remarks don't work. Nothing seems to penetrate the thick shells the other side have created for themselves.
> 
> So what do we do? I finally managed to "unwatch" "Obamacare". It should have been easy but it wasn't. I'm working up to unwatching S&O. That should be easy, too, and I haven't managed to do it yet. I think we could all unwatch those two topics and still have all the freedom of speech we have now. At least, we could give it a try.


Sounds good, however, just as with ignoring the ignorant (besides me, that is) we never all seem to be on the same page. Life could be so much better that way. If only we could lock the door once we are all together.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

It always amazes me that they accuse us of what they themselves do, be rude and outright lie. When you present them with facts from respectable organizations, they shout you down and accuse you of bullying. I just quit. I do not need their aggravation nor their approval. I like the conversations we have, very adult and respectful.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> At least the parks are open.


This comic strip is perfect,


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks for your insight. It's so easy to get drawn into the fights on '"Obamacare" and "Smoking and Obamacare". I haven't figured out why we're drawn into those two topics only to end up fighting with other people. If anyone has any further insight about that to add to what you've said, please post what you think here.
> 
> I am endlessly amazed at the behavior of "the other side". I can't imagine living in what looks like a highly hysterical, angry, fearful state. The so-called other side goes from 0 to 60 when it comes to put-downs, rudeness and obvious untruths. No wonder they get the same responses from everyone else. I don't act anything like that in "real" life, and am rarely hysterical, angry or fearful. I've made rude responses and many of you who are reading this have, too. Rational remarks don't work. Rude remarks don't work. Nothing seems to penetrate the thick shells the other side have created for themselves.
> 
> So what do we do? I finally managed to "unwatch" "Obamacare". It should have been easy but it wasn't. I'm working up to unwatching S&O. That should be easy, too, and I haven't managed to do it yet. I think we could all unwatch those two topics and still have all the freedom of speech we have now. At least, we could give it a try.


In the US of my days (OK, so I'm old) we wouldn't even be inclined to be concerned with this crack-pot fringe. Never mind those people;they're nuts. But now it's acceptable to put out bold-faced lies---even on the floor of the House or Senate. What in God's name makes this OK? And what's wrong with the people who believe this crap? Some headlines of the right-wing rags are so ridiculous that people with a modicum of sense should know it's mostly crap. Where is their curiosity? Why don't they have an inkling of something being amiss?. I agree with these right-wing people who fear this country is going down the tubes. I just disagree with their reasoning. It has nothing to do with the president, it has to do with them and their inability to discern fact from fiction.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am trying to figure out what to do about going to see Twelves Years a Slave.
Anyone else thinking about it?
I hesitate only because I just can't imagine all the brutality in one 2 hour stretch. 
I tried to talk my son into going together he turned me down, he says that he doesn't want to sit with me crying my eyes out. I think he doesn't want me to see him bawling.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am trying to figure out what to do about going to see Twelves Years a Slave.
> Anyone else thinking about it?
> I hesitate only because I just can't imagine all the brutality in one 2 hour stretch.
> I tried to talk my son into going together he turned me down, he says that he doesn't want to sit with me crying my eyes out. I think he doesn't want me to see him bawling.


I've thought about but wondered too if it might be a little much for me. Northup's memoirs (which I have yet to read in full) might be a safer bet in my case. I'm not worried about crying (it's a given I will), just afraid this "brutal" but realistic look at slavery might come to haunt my dreams.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I've thought about but wondered too if it might be a little much for me. Northup's memoirs (which I have yet to read in full) might be a safer bet in my case. I'm not worried about crying (it's a given I will), just afraid this "brutal" but realistic look at slavery might come to haunt my dreams.


I was thinking about reading Solomon Northup's account or checking out some others. 
I was also thinking that reading a first hand account of slavery (or a dictated one) should be a prerequisite for flying the battle flag of the CSA. 
Outside of reenactments a person should prepare by reading. Maybe annually, we forget so quickly.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I was thinking about reading Solomon Northup's account or checking out some others.
> I was also thinking that reading a first hand account of slavery (or a dictated one) should be a prerequisite for flying the battle flag of the CSA.
> Outside of reenactments a person should prepare by reading. Maybe annually, we forget so quickly.


I first came up Northup's account in a children's book called _To Be A Slave_ when I was nine or ten. It gave excerpts from the accounts (both written and oral) of various people born into slavery and, for a children's book, it was pretty grim and hard-hitting. I still remember the part about the runaway slave who was recaptured, whipped within an inch of his life, then forced to wear a cowbell around his neck for the remainder of his life. Brrrrr.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In the US of my days (OK, so I'm old) we wouldn't even be inclined to be concerned with this crack-pot fringe. Never mind those people;they're nuts. But now it's acceptable to put out bold-faced lies---even on the floor of the House or Senate. What in God's name makes this OK? And what's wrong with the people who believe this crap? Some headlines of the right-wing rags are so ridiculous that people with a modicum of sense should know it's mostly crap. Where is their curiosity? Why don't they have an inkling of something being amiss?. I agree with these right-wing people who fear this country is going down the tubes. I just disagree with their reasoning. It has nothing to do with the president, it has to do with them and their inability to discern fact from fiction.


Absolutely right. Except I think it's always been okay to tell lies on the Senate floor, but nobody should take them seriously.

I often want to ask the wingnuts, when they say that Obama wants to get rid of this or make everyone do that, whether they actually believe it, because it's patently absurd. Probably some do; others say it for the effect, and then their followers applaud them and post and repost the same nonsense.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Absolutely right. Except I think it's always been okay to tell lies on the Senate floor, but nobody should take them seriously.
> 
> I often want to ask the wingnuts, when they say that Obama wants to get rid of this or make everyone do that, whether they actually believe it, because it's patently absurd. Probably some do; others say it for the effect, and then their followers applaud them and post and repost the same nonsense.


They will believe anything that is patently absurd.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am trying to figure out what to do about going to see Twelves Years a Slave.
> Anyone else thinking about it?
> I hesitate only because I just can't imagine all the brutality in one 2 hour stretch.
> I tried to talk my son into going together he turned me down, he says that he doesn't want to sit with me crying my eyes out. I think he doesn't want me to see him bawling.


Your son sounds like a sensitive soul.

A couple of years ago I sat in on a course in American Literature and got to read some slave narratives as well as _Uncle Tom's Cabin_. I was horrified; I hadn't realized just how brutal the institution of slavery was. The movie appears to be very close to the truth. I cried reading about Uncle Tom's death (which was very heroic; the character was no "Uncle Tom" ). I don't know whether I could handle the film.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> They will believe anything that is patently absurd.


That's not funny!!!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's not funny!!!!


Go over to S&O and be sick with me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Go over to S&O and be sick with me.


Thanks for the invitation. I can be sick all by myself.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Sounds good, however, just as with ignoring the ignorant (besides me, that is) we never all seem to be on the same page. Life could be so much better that way. If only we could lock the door once we are all together.


That's the big, fat catch. As long as any political topic is open to anyone who wants to participate, ignoring the ignorant doesn't do what it could if locking the door was a possibility. It's possible to have Admin set up a closed topic if someone(s) is willing to run it, but that's been tried and turned out to be a tremendous amount of work for the people who were brave enough to act as the monitors.

I know it kind of contradicts what I just said to suggest anyone around here ignore Obamacare and S&O but I can't think of anything better to suggest and want to try to say something constructive. The "best" solution is probably getting Admin to reinstate the rule that forbade politial and religious discussion on KP, including in General Chit-Chat. I don't think that's going to happen. As far as I can tell, Admin acts as he/she/it feels like acting at any particular time and is generally pretty capricious.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> In the US of my days (OK, so I'm old) we wouldn't even be inclined to be concerned with this crack-pot fringe. Never mind those people;they're nuts. But now it's acceptable to put out bold-faced lies---even on the floor of the House or Senate. What in God's name makes this OK? And what's wrong with the people who believe this crap? Some headlines of the right-wing rags are so ridiculous that people with a modicum of sense should know it's mostly crap. Where is their curiosity? Why don't they have an inkling of something being amiss?. I agree with these right-wing people who fear this country is going down the tubes. I just disagree with their reasoning. It has nothing to do with the president, it has to do with them and their inability to discern fact from fiction.


I rue the day when someone thought up the idea of political correctness. I think you're a little bit older than I am (I'm 64), but I think I know the US you're talking about and that doesn't seem to exist anymore. Yes, all sorts of things change with time, That doesn't mean they change for the better.

I think of McCarthy as a good example. He got himself and the HUAC into a position of great power, and even though some people characterize the 1950's as a time of great conformity in society, McCarthy still got what he deserved in the end and was thoroughly discredited. If his equivalents exist in Congress now, no one will identify or stop them. Maybe the Tea Haddists are current McCarthys. We can all see what they're doing to the Republican Party and it ain't good but it's accepted.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I am trying to figure out what to do about going to see Twelves Years a Slave.
> Anyone else thinking about it?
> I hesitate only because I just can't imagine all the brutality in one 2 hour stretch.
> I tried to talk my son into going together he turned me down, he says that he doesn't want to sit with me crying my eyes out. I think he doesn't want me to see him bawling.


I just saw an advertisement for that film for the first time about half an hour ago. I'm interested in seeing it but I'm pretty sure I won't because of how much brutality could be compressed in a couple of hours.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I just saw an advertisement for that film for the first time about half an hour ago. I'm interested in seeing it but I'm pretty sure I won't because of how much brutality could be compressed in a couple of hours.


I am not sure why I think I need to be reminded of the brutality. It's like I think I can absorb it for the ignorant in order to make them understand that slavery is not just a word, that just as in an abusive household (cuz they were) there was not even a mild reprieve from the expectation of violence. It must be time for bed before I give myself nightmares. Thanks for listening. 
I already know that, though.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I am not sure why I think I need to be reminded of the brutality. It's like I think I can absorb it for the ignorant in order to make them understand that slavery is not just a word, that just as in an abusive household (cuz they were) there was not even a mild reprieve from the expectation of violence. It must be time for bed before I give myself nightmares. Thanks for listening.
> I already know that, though.


I've read a lot about African-American hisotry, the roots of the Abolistionist Movement in this country and followed through reading a lot about the Civil War and Recconstruction. It was hard enough to read some of things I read, so I'm not very interested is seeing any representations on the big screen.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am not sure why I think I need to be reminded of the brutality. It's like I think I can absorb it for the ignorant in order to make them understand that slavery is not just a word, that just as in an abusive household (cuz they were) there was not even a mild reprieve from the expectation of violence. It must be time for bed before I give myself nightmares. Thanks for listening.
> I already know that, though.


jelun and MIB I think we will be going to see the film in a few days. I think it is important to look at our "ugly" past as well as what we have done right for so many people. I will give you a review after I see it. I just saw Captain Phillips yesterday and I highly recommend everyone see it. In MN we have the largest Somali population in the country and we have had young Somali males return to Somalia to fight and I can't remember the last time being so caught up in a film. It shows the horror of a kidnapped captain of a cargo ship off the coast of Somalia and also the daily agony that the Somalis endure just to live and you ache for both sides. At the end of the film the audience just sat in silence and then people gradually started talking to each other. I felt absolutely exhausted and emotionally drained. We can never forget our past but we also have to figure out along with other countries what we can do to help the people in Africa and the Middle East. Their countries populations are overwhelmingly young people and I don't believe that morally we can turn our backs on them and we also cannot steal any of their natural resources as we have been so good at doing. Maybe I am am dreamer but we must do right by these people as well as those in our own country who need help. I think we have a collective conscience and we are judged by what we do as nations as well as individually.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She may choose to accept that convenient abbreviation of her name. I hope she'll let us know.



jelun2 said:


> My biggest problem with Empress Poor Purl is that I always like limiting the typing for for her it would Empress PP.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> She may choose to accept that convenient abbreviation of her name. I hope she'll let us know.


It depends on which P is stressed. If it's P*P*, that's fine. If it's *P*P, no.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

For those of you might be reluctant to see the movie based on this book, .Twelve years a slave. Narrative of Solomon Northup, a citizen of New-York, kidnapped in Washington city in 1841, and rescued in 1853, from a cotton plantation near the Red River in Louisiana you might prefer to read the book the movie is based on. If you local library doen't have it, you can go to www.bookfinder.com and buy a copy for as little as $5.88, including shipping. Movies tend to leave some things out when they are based on books because it's impossible to include everything and produce a 2 hour long movie. You only have to put "Twelve Years a Slave" in the subject field of the search form to find the book.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's best to let this idea die. (Of course the idea is now imprinted in our minds, but that's a different thing.)



Poor Purl said:


> It depends on which P is stressed. If it's P*P*, that's fine. If it's *P*P, no.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think it's best to let this idea die. (Of course the idea is now imprinted in our minds, but that's a different thing.)


I would certainly appreciate that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I would certainly appreciate that.


OK, I won't even go where I was going. LOL


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I just saw an advertisement for that film for the first time about half an hour ago. I'm interested in seeing it but I'm pretty sure I won't because of how much brutality could be compressed in a couple of hours.


I saw someone on TV the other day who should've been pretty strong about such things get very sober about how difficult that two hours is (can't remember who or what the circumstances) so while I would LOVE to see it, I know for sure I can't. It is literally physically stressful.

I've always been very sensitive to film and video depictions of violence and brutality -- even to suspense -- and in the last couple of years even more so for some reason. Heck, these days I'm even finding it necessary to minimize my exposure to "intensity." I was kind of interested in the new TV show "Lucky 7," but watching it was a bit disturbing in some ways. It was dropped after just 2 or 3 episodes, but I found it really absorbing and interesting, but dark and definitely INTENSE and I didn't like how that felt once I was finished watching it. I can't watch Boardwalk Empire in part for its violence and gore and intensity too.

Is anyone old enough to remember Hitchcock's _Psycho_? When Psycho II was out, we rented Psycho and showed it to our then-teenage kids as a prelude to seeing the new movie. I was incredibly shocked at how tame it was by then. We'd all been inured to violence so much that that scene that kept me nervous in a shower for YEARS was now nothing. Yawn.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I saw someone on TV the other day who should've been pretty strong about such things get very sober about how difficult that two hours is (can't remember who or what the circumstances) so while I would LOVE to see it, I know for sure I can't. It is literally physically stressful.
> 
> I've always been very sensitive to film and video depictions of violence and brutality -- even to suspense -- and in the last couple of years even more so for some reason. Heck, these days I'm even finding it necessary to minimize my exposure to "intensity." I was kind of interested in the new TV show "Lucky 7," but watching it was a bit disturbing in some ways. It was dropped after just 2 or 3 episodes, but I found it really absorbing and interesting, but dark and definitely INTENSE and I didn't like how that felt once I was finished watching it. I can't watch Boardwalk Empire in part for its violence and gore and intensity too.
> 
> Is anyone old enough to remember Hitchcock's _Psycho_? When Psycho II was out, we rented Psycho and showed it to our then-teenage kids as a prelude to seeing the new movie. I was incredibly shocked at how tame it was by then. We'd all been inured to violence so much that that scene that kept me nervous in a shower for YEARS was now nothing. Yawn.


I can't stand to watch the more realistic depictions of violence we get as a result of all the development of the special effects that make violence look so real. I can't even watch the commercials on TV seeking support for adopting abused and neglected pets. I can change the channel on that stuff faster than you can imagine.

I once entirely blew the possiblity of having a romantic relationship with a guy I liked a lot. He took me to see the remake of "Mutiny on the Bounty" with Mel Gibson. It starts out with Gibson's character getting a brutal beating below decks and is showm almost entirely by the increasing damage done to Gibson's face, which entirely dominates the big screen. I had to leave the theater, and alone at that. My date was unphased by the violent beginning of the film and thought I was being silly. After that, when we encountered each other I was polite and that's all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been examining my feelings about violence in film. I agree that there is a danger in becoming immune to violent depictions. Maybe that's what has happened to me. I seem to have a compartment in my mind for violence in film. It's not real to me. 

On the other hand I try to skip the 'save the abused animals' ads. I do contribute to the Humane Society, and my cat was a rescue.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I've been examining my feelings about violence in film. I agree that there is a danger in becoming immune to violent depictions. Maybe that's what has happened to me. I seem to have a compartment in my mind for violence in film. It's not real to me.
> 
> On the other hand I try to skip the 'save the abused animals' ads. I do contribute to the Humane Society, and my cat was a rescue.


All my pets have been rescues or strays that I found hanging around my home. Right now I have one cat I got from a Humane Society shelter and one who was a stray.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Found an interesting article I thought I'd share -- seems the Repugs have lost a LOT of their reliable senior citizen base thanks to their shutdown shenanigans:



> GOP Has Lost Seniors: 65% Unfavorability
> 
> by FishOutofWater
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

There's a very thoughtful piece in the Daily Kos suggesting a reason for the TP's over-the-top hatred of, and disrespect to, the President. I think it's too long to post here, but here's a link:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/24/1250239/-Tea-Party-Confederate-Secessionists-are-Finally-Crawling-out-of-Closet?detail=email .

It has a 5-minute clip from 12 Years a Slave, which is relevant to the author's take on TP Confederates. I recommend reading it all the way to the end, where a most important point is made.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It only makes sense. And I am very grateful. Maybe there is a way out of this mess. Thanks for sharing.



Knitry said:


> Found an interesting article I thought I'd share -- seems the Repugs have lost a LOT of their reliable senior citizen base thanks to their shutdown shenanigans:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I gasped as I read this article Purl. It's shocking to hear the words of the past. Thank you for sharing.



Poor Purl said:


> There's a very thoughtful piece in the Daily Kos suggesting a reason for the TP's over-the-top hatred of, and disrespect to, the President. I think it's too long to post here, but here's a link:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/24/1250239/-Tea-Party-Confederate-Secessionists-are-Finally-Crawling-out-of-Closet?detail=email .
> 
> It has a 5-minute clip from 12 Years a Slave, which is relevant to the author's take on TP Confederates. I recommend reading it all the way to the end, where a most important point is made.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm pretty sure "Captain Phillips" is another film i won't be seeing. I remember the incident and don't really want to see the expanded version of what was shown on the news. Yes, I'm chicken, and will look forward to your review of 'Twelve Years a Slave" I'll even review the book on which it's based after I read it.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> jelun and MIB I think we will be going to see the film in a few days. I think it is important to look at our "ugly" past as well as what we have done right for so many people. I will give you a review after I see it. I just saw Captain Phillips yesterday and I highly recommend everyone see it. In MN we have the largest Somali population in the country and we have had young Somali males return to Somalia to fight and I can't remember the last time being so caught up in a film. It shows the horror of a kidnapped captain of a cargo ship off the coast of Somalia and also the daily agony that the Somalis endure just to live and you ache for both sides. At the end of the film the audience just sat in silence and then people gradually started talking to each other. I felt absolutely exhausted and emotionally drained. We can never forget our past but we also have to figure out along with other countries what we can do to help the people in Africa and the Middle East. Their countries populations are overwhelmingly young people and I don't believe that morally we can turn our backs on them and we also cannot steal any of their natural resources as we have been so good at doing. Maybe I am am dreamer but we must do right by these people as well as those in our own country who need help. I think we have a collective conscience and we are judged by what we do as nations as well as individually.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a very thoughtful piece in the Daily Kos suggesting a reason for the TP's over-the-top hatred of, and disrespect to, the President. I think it's too long to post here, but here's a link:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/24/1250239/-Tea-Party-Confederate-Secessionists-are-Finally-Crawling-out-of-Closet?detail=email .
> 
> It has a 5-minute clip from 12 Years a Slave, which is relevant to the author's take on TP Confederates. I recommend reading it all the way to the end, where a most important point is made.


I enjoyed both very much. Thanks.

I just have to post my Lyndon Johnson quote again primarily because it struck me so hard when I found it the other day:

_If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best black man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he'll empty his pockets for you. _ -- Lyndon Johnson

And, since we were on the subject, here's a bit more news about the Republican Party, this time in that *bellwhether* state, California:



> 12:44 10/26/2013
> *Memo Paints Grim Picture of California Republicans*
> The Los Angeles Times reports that "buried in the avalanche of documents released in the state probe of secretive political groups was a fairly succinct description of the problems facing California Republicans."
> The memo was from GOP consultant Jeff Miller: "Over the last two decades, California's working class has slowly migrated out of the state and Latino and women voters are completely disenfranchised with the Republican Party. There are only a few pockets of conservative voters left in the state and they are only able to help carry the day for Republicans in ultra-low turnout elections on issues where campaign spending is at parity or to the Republican advantage, and where the Democratic and union grass-roots apparatus is not activated."
> ...


I just can't help a bit (okay, a lot) of schadenfraude. They really have asked for this, haven't they?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I just can't help a bit (okay, a lot) of schadenfraude. They really have asked for this, haven't they?


Poor babies.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I gasped as I read this article Purl. It's shocking to hear the words of the past. Thank you for sharing.


What makes it ring true is the fact that there was never anything Obama could do to win over some of those people. It couldn't be his policies; they're not much different from other middle-of-the road policies. It had to be him, his person.

The author never uses the word "racist." He doesn't have to. If these people are so afraid of a single African American in a position of power, there's a much deeper reason for it. That it would be guilt and fear of retribution makes a lot of sense.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This is from an email I just got,titled Busted at Barney's for Being Black. It makes stop-and-frisk look like ring around the rosy:

On Friday, October 25, 2013 2:06 PM, "Rashad Robinson, ColorOfChange.org" <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Cori,
For months, Trayon Christian  a 19-year-old Black college student from Queens  set aside money from a part-time job to buy a $349 designer belt from Barneys New York.1 But in April, as he exited the luxury department store with both the belt and his receipt he was swarmed by undercover cops, peppered with questions, handcuffed and locked in a jail cell.2 While providing several forms of identification to match his debit card, police taunted Trayon with questions like "How could you afford a belt like this?" "Where did you get this money from?"3

Barneys issued a vague statement, disclaiming responsibility for Trayon's arrest, but more than 47 arrests have been made outside of the Madison Ave. store  hinting at the possibility of a dedicated NYPD task force.4 The public has a right to know the racial breakdown of the suspects arrested, how many were actually charged with a crime, and what role the luxury department store played in these arrests.

Join us in demanding that the NYPD immediately conduct a full investigation of the arrests made outside of Barneys. We'll also send this message to senior executives at Barneys to remind them that the practice of profiling Black customers is unacceptable. It only takes a moment.

Clearly Trayon isn't the only Black person who has been stopped by NYPD after an expensive purchase at this particular store. Just a day after Trayon filed his complaint, 21-year-old Kayla Phillips has come forward and claims that she too was surrounded by undercover cops just blocks from the Manhattan store who pushed her up against the wall after she purchased a designer handbag with her debit card.5

Unfortunately Black folks are too often subjected to this brand of deeply offensive and humiliating treatment by security guards and police officers at the businesses we patronize. And in recent years, the NYPD has become notorious for targeting Black and Latino residents  subjecting our communities to thousands of illegal stops, searches, and frisks each day that lead to unlawful arrests, constant harassment, and in some cases, serious injury or death.6,7

Enough is enough. In order to end the culture of police misconduct and racial profiling we must demand accountability for these discriminatory practices. Will you sign this petition today and forward it to your family and friends?

References
1. "Barneys accused teen of using fake debit card for $349 belt because he's a young black American male':lawsuit," New York Daily News, 10-22-13
http://act.colorofchange.org/go/3044?t=7&akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A

2. "Trayon Christian Complaint," New York City Clerk, 10-21-13
http://act.colorofchange.org/go/3045?t=9&akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A

3.See Reference 1

4. "Another black Barneys shopper accused of credit card fraud after buying $2,500 purse: claim," New York Daily News, 08-10-13
http://act.colorofchange.org/go/3046?t=12&akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A

5.See Reference 4

6. "Judge approves class action lawsuit over NYPDs stop-and-frisk searches," The Raw Story, 05-16-12
http://act.colorofchange.org/go/1636?t=14&akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A

7. "After Detective's Firing, Tensions Linger in Sean Bell Case," New York Times, 03-25-12
http://act.colorofchange.org/go/3047?t=16&akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A

The petition can be found at http://act.colorofchange.org/sign/shoppingwhileblack/?akid=3175.729539.HCSR4A&rd=1&t=4


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

In case I've been too serious lately:

Roll Out the Health Care
By GAIL COLLINS

If youre a citizen who tries to keep up with current affairs, your latest responsibility is having a strong opinion about the troubled rollout of the health insurance marketplace.

Really makes you miss the government shutdown, doesnt it? Try leading a lively dinner table conversation on software coding errors.

The Democrats are depressed. The Republicans enjoy pointing out that the Obamacare rollout has been a mess. But they obviously cant pretend to be upset that people are finding it hard to sign up for a program their party wanted to kill, eviscerate and stomp into tiny pieces, which would then be fed to a tank of ravenous eels.

Well, actually, they can.

I havent heard one of you apologize to the American public, Representative David McKinley of West Virginia sternly told government contractors who had worked on the HealthCare.gov Web site. McKinleys party recently shut down everything from the national parks to preschool programs, while costing the economy an estimated $24 billion. Nobody apologized. Perhaps theyll write a note this weekend.

Im damned angry that I and 700,000 Texans I represent have been misled, misled and misled, said Representative Pete Olson. The only thing that could conceivably make Olson angrier would be if the Obamacare site was working so well that Texans could get health insurance as easily as they can order a chrome scarf holder from Amazon.com.

On Thursday the House Energy and Commerce Committee held the first of what will be a very long line of Congressional hearings on the subject of the botched rollout. The private contractors claimed, in the most oblique language possible, that their own individual pieces of the operation had gone swimmingly.

Meanwhile, the committee members told the private contractors about their personal technological expertise, which sounded so extensive its a wonder that the House of Representatives hasnt invented its own search engine.

I was in small business for 22 years, in the radio business. We dealt with software upgrades and changes in systems and all that . . .

When I was in developing software . . .

Being a computer science major from Rice University and a former naval aviator who could not afford to have my computer drop off-line as Im rolling in my plane to drop a torpedo to stop a Russian submarine from launching a ballistic missile, a nuclear missile at our country. . . .

That last one was Representative Olson again.

It is very possible that you missed this hearing. Perhaps you were at work. Perhaps you have taken a vow never to listen to any discussion in which the word functionality is used on a regular basis.

The bottom line is that the start-up was terrible. Were just going to wait and see how well the administration does in fixing things. White House officials have promised to bring in the best and brightest, which is encouraging unless you are old enough to remember that the best and the brightest was what they called the guys who gave us the war in Vietnam.

In the meantime, keep things simple and just find somebody to blame. A few suggestions:

*Canada*

The major contractor on the Web job was CGI Federal, which is a subsidiary of a Canadian company. Perhaps this is all a Canadian plot. Perhaps the Canadians were jealous that the United States was on the verge of creating a health care system so much more exciting than their own single-payer version. Remember, these are the exact same people who sent us Justin Bieber.

*Kathleen Sebelius*

This is an extremely popular option. Fire the secretary of health and human services. The Republican National Committee has a petition drive demanding that Secretary Sebelius be canned. Democrats are less enthusiastic, but a lot of them feel that President Obama should fire somebody and really, its not going to be the secretary of agriculture.

Also, Secretary Sebelius has a family vacation home in northern Michigan. You can probably see Canada from her house.

*Technology*

Younger people are shocked that the Obama White House, which is supposed to be so technologically savvy, cant manage a Web site rollout. They express this opinion through multiple devices that are seamlessly interlinked to one another, and to their friends multiple devices, and their friends friends.

Many older people just shrug. Its about computers. How could it possibly work out the first time around?

I am definitely going with option two, in my capacity as a person who has never recovered from the day my company changed e-mail systems. Let alone the time my cellphone started responding to all prompts by offering to call the old office number for former Senator Trent Lott.

The White House just has to call a tech. And then another tech. And then another tech. And then maybe buy a new cellphone.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is from an email I just got,titled Busted at Barney's for Being Black. It makes stop-and-frisk look like ring around the rosy:
> 
> On Friday, October 25, 2013 2:06 PM, "Rashad Robinson, ColorOfChange.org" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> ...


Thanks, I signed the petition. As the article states, this isn't the only example lately. Today I read about an actor on Treme who was treated the same way at Macy's. What the hell is going on with these NYC stores? Ridiculous with an overtone of fascism.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm smiling broadly. They have indeed asked for it.



Knitry said:


> I just can't help a bit (okay, a lot) of schadenfraude. They really have asked for this, haven't they?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think boycotts are needed.



Poor Purl said:


> This is from an email I just got,titled Busted at Barney's for Being Black. It makes stop-and-frisk look like ring around the rosy:
> 
> On Friday, October 25, 2013 2:06 PM, "Rashad Robinson, ColorOfChange.org" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Just as telling, are the comments made from anywhere USA that want to know what a young African American student WAS THINKING buying an expensive belt at Barney's. 
I say "none of their bleeping business. I can remember way back when I was going to school, had two kids to support, Etienne Aigner was all the rage around here. And yes, I went and bought myself a coat. I loved it, I wore it for years Sometimes a person just has to do something nice for herself. 
So, honestly, whose business is it what this kid did with his money? 
The point is he was targeted because he was the wrong color and the wrong age in Barney's.



Poor Purl said:


> This is from an email I just got,titled Busted at Barney's for Being Black. It makes stop-and-frisk look like ring around the rosy:
> 
> On Friday, October 25, 2013 2:06 PM, "Rashad Robinson, ColorOfChange.org" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think boycotts are needed.


I would, Empress, I have an idea that Barney's would know that I have never shopped there anyway.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think boycotts are needed.


A boycott may be needed, but they won't lose any money by my joining it. I don't think I've ever even been in Barney's.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me neither Purl and Jelun. Maybe the boycott should start with those who have patronized Barney's.



Poor Purl said:


> A boycott may be needed, but they won't lose any money by my joining it. I don't think I've ever even been in Barney's.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Me neither Purl and Jelun. Maybe the boycott should start with those who have patronized Barney's.


It still isn't clear exactly how this fell out, I will be very interested in the details.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Good Morning, Ladies. 

My older gs attempting to act as Atlas a few years ago.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Good Morning, Ladies.
> 
> My older gs attempting to act as Atlas a few years ago.


What a beautiful child! And he's sittin' on top of the world.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What a squeeze! Love to see the hat. Give him a hug for me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Good Morning, Ladies.
> 
> My older gs attempting to act as Atlas a few years ago.


Thanks for giving us something really good to see. Your GS is a little cutey.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

He is! Love the hat.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a beautiful child! And he's sittin' on top of the world.


Now the little dollie is doing ballet and karate.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Now the little dollie is doing ballet and karate.


Now you've given us a good thing to read today! Thanks you! What an amazing combination of inerests your GS has. Good for him!:-D :-D :-D :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Now the little dollie is doing ballet and karate.


He's going to be the most graceful kickboxer in the country.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the compliments. 
My only complaint is that we don't get together nearly often enough. 
His mother is lucky enough to be a stay at home mom and is all involved in Moms Demand Action, anti domestic violence stuff... she is very busy.

http://momsdemandaction.org/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> He's going to be the most graceful kickboxer in the country.


HAHAHA, OMG, I hope not.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for all the compliments.
> My only complaint is that we don't get together nearly often enough.
> His mother is lucky enough to be a stay at home mom and is all involved in Moms Demand Action, anti domestic violence stuff... she is very busy.
> 
> http://momsdemandaction.org/


Your grandson is beautiful, and I LOVE that he's into ballet AND karate. What a combination. I can remember some football star or other mentioning that he took ballet lessons to get better at football.

And I LOVE your daughter (daughter-in-law?). Domestic violence and all violence against women, and indeed all sexism/misogyny are key issues for me as well.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Woohoo -- s'more good news:

*Wendy Davis hires campaign manager with history-making track record*
AUSTIN  Sen. Wendy Daviss camp announced Sunday her campaign manager is Karin Johanson, who managed the bid of U.S. Sen. Tammy Baldwin, the first openly gay member of the U.S. Senate and first woman in Wisconsin to hold the post.

Karin has proven that she can win tough races. She has taken on and beaten a full arsenal of failed leadership, despite millions in negative ads, said Davis Communications Director Bo Delp in a statement. Karin will be an excellent and outstanding addition to this historic and exciting campaign. We are honored that Karin will be joining us as we continue our fight to make the promise of Texas available to all families.

The Davis campaign in announcing Johansons hiring Sunday said she has more than 25 years of experience in elections and in the legislative arena.

She was chief of staff and press secretary to U.S. Rep. Steny Hoyer and was executive director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2006.

More at http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2013/10/wendy-davis-hires-campaign-manager-with-history-making-track-record/?cmpid=hpbn

She is a force to be reckoned with, that one. I hope she can overcome the voter suppression laws aimed at women voters.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You may be too young to remember Lynn Swan, famous wide receiver for Pittsburgh Steelers, but he took ballet lessons and said it allowed him to complete famous catches.



jelun2 said:


> HAHAHA, OMG, I hope not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what a lucky young man to see this in his mom.



Knitry said:


> Your grandson is beautiful, and I LOVE that he's into ballet AND karate. What a combination. I can remember some football star or other mentioning that he took ballet lessons to get better at football.
> 
> And I LOVE your daughter (daughter-in-law?). Domestic violence and all violence against women, and indeed all sexism/misogyny are key issues for me as well.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> You may be too young to remember Lynn Swan, famous wide receiver for Pittsburgh Steelers, but he took ballet lessons and said it allowed him to complete famous catches.


LOL -- how tactful of you. No, I'm not too young for Lynn Swan. He may have been the one, though my memory of the anecdote seems more recent than that. Shrug.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Speaking of Wendy Davis --

TEXAS Republicans have disenfranchised one-half million voters, mostly women, mostly Dems


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Speaking of Wendy Davis --
> 
> TEXAS Republicans have disenfranchised one-half million voters, mostly women, mostly Dems
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Speaking of Wendy Davis --
> 
> TEXAS Republicans have disenfranchised one-half million voters, mostly women, mostly Dems
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you, GOP.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, GOP.


We could have paid LOTS of subsidies for health insurance with that lost money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> We could have paid LOTS of subsidies for health insurance with that lost money.


More likely it would have gone for more subsidies to the oil and gas industry, the most profitable industry in history.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> More likely it would have gone for more subsidies to the oil and gas industry, the most profitable industry in history.


Yes, well... I am a dreamer.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

At least a little good news tonight. They won't be closing down the Planned Parenthood Clinics in TX for the time being as a federal judge ruled the new restrictions unconstitutional. What will TX do next? If they want to secede I say more power to them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> At least a little good news tonight. They won't be closing down the Planned Parenthood Clinics in TX for the time being as a federal judge ruled the new restrictions unconstitutional. What will TX do next? If they want to secede I say more power to them.


Not until Wendy Davis and the other good guys are out of there. But I'd love to see the back of Rick Perry and his hair. Though I kind of like his wife.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From the Huffington Post

McDonald's Low Wages Cost Taxpayers $1.2 Billion Per Year: Study Posted: 10/15/2013 1:13 pm EDT | Updated: 10/18/2013 9:20 am ED:

The fast food industrys low wages are costing us all, new research finds.

Taxpayers are shelling out $1.2 billion a year to help pay workers at McDonalds, according to an estimate from the National Employment Law Project published Tuesday. The organization used estimated figures from a study by University of California-Berkeley and University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign on how many fast food workers rely on public assistance programs like food stamps and Medicaid for its analysis.

Overall, low wages at the top 10 largest fast food chains cost taxpayers about $3.8 billion per year, NELP found.

As Republicans in Congress fight to curb spending on entitlement programs like food stamps, the report offers an often overlooked solution: Companies could pay workers more to decrease their reliance on public assistance.

"A very easy policy fix here would to raise the minimum wage," said Sylvia Allegretto, the co-chair of Berkeleys Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics and one of the authors of the Berkeley/UI study. "The firms that pay a large share of their workers at or near the minimum wage -- these workers disproportionately have to rely on public subsidies."

The National Restaurant Association, a trade group representing more than 500,000 restaurants, took issue with the reports. It argued that the Berkeley and UI researchers' decision to consider the Earned Income Tax Credit, a tax break given to working, low-income families, as a subsidy "inflates" the study's findings.

McDonald's wrote in a statement that the company and its franchisees provide hundreds of thousands of jobs throughout the country that offer opportunities for advancement.

"As with most small businesses, wages are based on local wage laws and are competitive to similar jobs in that market," the statement reads.

chart 1 see below

To make its estimate, NELP used publicly available data about the fast food industry, like how many front-line workers each restaurant employs, along with the University of California-Berkeley/UI study.

The Berkeley/UI study found that 52 percent of families of front-line fast food workers -- defined as non-managers working more than 11 hours a week and over 27 weeks per year -- rely on at least one government assistance program. The researchers used enrollment data from government programs like Medicaid and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (or food stamps), and cross-referenced that information with worker demographic data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Pelhom Wiley is one of those workers. Hes been mopping floors, taking out the garbage and changing the grease in the frier pans for about a year as a maintenance worker at a Chicago McDonalds. Wiley says his paycheck of $8.25 an hour at just under 40 hours per week isnt enough for him to cover his about $600 per month in expenses like rent and transportation.

So Wiley uses Illinois foods stamp program to fill in the gaps. He often comes up short.

We get paid Mondays, and by Wednesday or Thursday my check is pretty much gone, he said. Its not fair. Im the one that has to keep up the store. All of the big restaurants make billions of dollars, and we make the least of what all the stores get.

Representatives from the restaurant industry have said in the past that fast food eateries operate on thin profit margins. They've argued that any wage boost could put franchisees -- which run most fast food restaurants -- out of business, or hamper their ability to hire.

Industry representatives have also said that entry-level fast food jobs are meant to be just that -- and therefore workers will only be earning bottom-barrel wages for a short period of their careers.

But the new economic reality counters that claim. Nearly 70 percent of the jobs created in the recovery have been in low-wage sectors like fast food and retail, while half the jobs lost during the recession paid between $38,000 and $68,000 per year.

That means that in many cases, its not just teenagers working fast food jobs for some extra cash. These low-wage workers are often older -- and in many cases are the breadwinners for their families.

Its not just that we need more jobs, said Allegretto. We need the jobs that we have and the jobs that are growing to be better-paying jobs and better-quality jobs.

chart 2 see below

This story has been updated with comments from McDonald's and the National Restaurant Association.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Why, oh why, is a Democratic president putting Social Security and Medicare "on the table?"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No worries. Just talk for now. The words are for others, and it ain't over til the fat lady sings.



alcameron said:


> Why, oh why, is a Democratic president putting Social Security and Medicare "on the table?"


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

DH and I are watching reruns of "The West Wing" and thoroughly enjoying ourselves. We checked them out of the library. A good watch for any Democrat!!! Oh, for days when people didn't have to WIN; they had our interests at heart.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> No worries. Just talk for now. The words are for others, and it ain't over til the fat lady sings.


You're an optimist. I just think this Democratic president is far from the "socialist" or "liberal" the other side calls him. Remember Larry Summers?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're an optimist. I just think this Democratic president is far from the "socialist" or "liberal" the other side calls him. Remember Larry Summers?


Obama is so close to being a republican all he lacks is the endorsement. Once again I am so glad I never voted for him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Why, oh why, is a Democratic president putting Social Security and Medicare "on the table?"


I don't know, I am guessing that it is the same as always. He says we will talk about this, but, they are such dipsticks they never really talk about it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How about when statesmen not politicians ruled.....or is it just nostalgia on my part?



shayfaye said:


> DH and I are watching reruns of "The West Wing" and thoroughly enjoying ourselves. We checked them out of the library. A good watch for any Democrat!!! Oh, for days when people didn't have to WIN; they had our interests at heart.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I classify President Obama as a moderate, but think how they've slammed him. How would a true liberal have done?

You're right. I am an optimist and it colors how I judge things. But I'll work my tail off to make things happen.



Poor Purl said:


> You're an optimist. I just think this Democratic president is far from the "socialist" or "liberal" the other side calls him. Remember Larry Summers?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Obama is so close to being a republican all he lacks is the endorsement. Once again I am so glad I never voted for him.


I wouldn't go as far as you. I think maybe centrist would characterize him. I didn't vote for him the second time because of all his broken promises, but then, where I live he was sure to win without my vote.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're an optimist. I just think this Democratic president is far from the "socialist" or "liberal" the other side calls him. Remember Larry Summers?


Yes!!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes!!!


Oh, Al, you must be feeling better. I see you took off your eyepatch.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, Al, you must be feeling better. I see you took off your eyepatch.


That's right...how's your eye doing, Al?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's right...how's your eye doing, Al?


I'm doing very well, and my eye continues to improve. In the meantime, I'm making the printing bigger, and drove for the first time this morning when I went to the gym. I can't lift any weights yet, but I walked on the treadmill. The doc said that my vision will continue to improve for the next six months. I've discovered that I don't really need to increase the size of the print on a few of the threads because the same ol' crap is there.
I'm off to see my homeless guys.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Why, oh why, is a Democratic president putting Social Security and Medicare "on the table?"


I think can only of think of one "good" reason for that. That might be the only way to get some bipartisan cooperation with Congress. He's courting a huge protest from rhose who get SS and Medicare.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think can only of think of one "good" reason for that. That might be the only way to get some bipartisan cooperation with Congress. He's courting a huge protest from rhose who get SS and Medicare.


I think he said he would put the chained cpi on the table if they put tax revenue on the table, which they won't of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then why are the Republicans fighting so hard against this President?



peacegoddess said:


> Obama is so close to being a republican all he lacks is the endorsement. Once again I am so glad I never voted for him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Then why are the Republicans fighting so hard against this President?


I would respond to this, I think we agreed to stop saying "stupid" though.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The republicans really plan on giving it their all next year. Look how many days they are working. Part time work should deserve part time pay.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This fits so many of our republican congress people.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> The republicans really plan on giving it their all next year. Look how many days they are working. Part time work should deserve part time pay.


And NO BENEFITS!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> This fits so many of our republican congress people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> This fits so many of our republican congress people.


It also fits some people around here.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It also fits some people around here.


Yes, it does. Can't say too much or they play the victim card.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, it does. Can't say too much or they play the victim card.


Bully! Slammer! Mommy, they're picking on me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Bully! Slammer! Mommy, they're picking on me.


 :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:


And I'm drowning in spew...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> And I'm drowning in spew...


HAHAHAHAAAA, Eewwwwwww


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

First spew spot of the day: mommee on S&O. They never let me down.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> First spew spot of the day: mommee on S&O. They never let me down.


That one has absolutely no sense. She may even be worse than Janeway. Now I have to look for it. Consarn you!

Found it. She actually uses the phrase "spewing adoration for" Obama. She apparently thinks spew is a good thing. I picture her with saliva spraying out of her mouth as she shouts her ignorant rants.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm on my way too.



Poor Purl said:


> That one has absolutely no sense. She may even be worse than Janeway. Now I have to look for it. Consarn you!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> First spew spot of the day: mommee on S&O. They never let me down.


They don't let me down either. To paraphrase an old say, "Nothing is certain, except death, taxes, our conservative ladies, and that there will always be someone around here who will use the word "spew." ( Yuck about that "spew" stuff! :hunf: )


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They don't let me down either. To paraphrase an old say, "Nothing is certain, except death, taxes, our conservative ladies, and that there will always be someone around here who will use the word "spew." ( Yuck about that "spew" stuff! :hunf: )


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NOVEMBER 6, 2013
STUDY: AMERICANS SAFE FROM GUN VIOLENCE EXCEPT IN SCHOOLS, MALLS, AIRPORTS, MOVIE THEATRES, WORKPLACES, STREETS, OWN HOMES

POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)A new study released today indicates that Americans are safe from the threat of gun violence except in schools, malls, airports, movie theatres, workplaces, streets, and their own homes.

Also: highways, turnpikes, libraries, places of worship, parks, universities, restaurants, post offices, and cars.

Plus: driveways, garages, gyms, stores, military basesand a host of other buildings, structures, and sites.

National Rifle Association C.E.O. Wayne LaPierre applauded the study, saying that it reinforced his organizations long-held position that the United States does not need additional gun laws. This study makes it abundantly clear that Americans are in no danger of gun violence except in these isolated four hundred and thirteen places, he said.

He added that he hoped that the study would spark a conversation about the root cause of mass shootings: people who recklessly show up at places where they could be shot at.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> NOVEMBER 6, 2013
> STUDY: AMERICANS SAFE FROM GUN VIOLENCE EXCEPT IN SCHOOLS, MALLS, AIRPORTS, MOVIE THEATRES, WORKPLACES, STREETS, OWN HOMES
> 
> POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ
> ...


HAHAHAAA. Someone else who never lets us down, you are gem, Poor Purl the Empress.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> HAHAHAAA. Someone else who never lets us down, you are gem, Poor Purl the Empress.


Andy Borowitz emails me every day; I just pass it on, Empress Jelun2. I didn't indicate that this was satire; will anyone take it as true? (Unfortunately, a lot of it _is_ true.)


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Tea Party Republicans whined about the World War 2 memorial being closed during the government shutdown, but the real story is worse. These same Republicans want to privatize and sell our national parks.

Yes, its true. Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz proposed selling 3.3 million acres of public lands, Michele Bachmann wants to drill oil in the Florida Evergladesand Tea Party candidate Joe Miller ran on a platform to turn Alaskas Denali National Park into an oil well


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

AMEN!!!


NJG said:


> Tea Party Republicans whined about the World War 2 memorial being closed during the government shutdown, but the real story is worse. These same Republicans want to privatize and sell our national parks.
> 
> Yes, its true. Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz proposed selling 3.3 million acres of public lands, Michele Bachmann wants to drill oil in the Florida Evergladesand Tea Party candidate Joe Miller ran on a platform to turn Alaskas Denali National Park into an oil well


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

And no benefits, just like part-timers on a "real job".


NJG said:


> The republicans really plan on giving it their all next year. Look how many days they are working. Part time work should deserve part time pay.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:

The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement. 

Eckert's attorney, Shannon Kennedy, said in an interview with KOB that after law enforcement asked him to step out of the vehicle, he appeared to be clenching his buttocks. Law enforcement thought that was probable cause to suspect that Eckert was hiding narcotics in his anal cavity. While officers detained Eckert, they secured a search warrant from a judge that allowed for an anal cavity search. 

Initially the doctor on duty refused the search, citing it as "unethical." Unfortunately, after several hours, hospital personnel relented and did the search.

Here's what happened to David Eckert at that hospital:

While there, Eckert was subjected to repeated and humiliating forced medical procedures. A review of Eckert's medical records, which he released to KOB, and details in the lawsuit show the following happened:

1. Eckert's abdominal area was x-rayed; no narcotics were found. 

2. Doctors then performed an exam of Eckert's anus with their fingers; no narcotics were found.

3. Doctors performed a second exam of Eckert's anus with their fingers; no narcotics were found. 

4. Doctors penetrated Eckert's anus to insert an enema. Eckert was forced to defecate in front of doctors and police officers. Eckert watched as doctors searched his stool. No narcotics were found.

5. Doctors penetrated Eckert's anus to insert an enema a second time. Eckert was forced to defecate in front of doctors and police officers. Eckert watched as doctors searched his stool. No narcotics were found.

6. Doctors penetrated Eckert's anus to insert an enema a third time. Eckert was forced to defecate in front of doctors and police officers. Eckert watched as doctors searched his stool. No narcotics were found.

7. Doctors then x-rayed Eckert again; no narcotics were found. 

8. Doctors prepared Eckert for surgery, sedated him, and then performed a colonoscopy where a scope with a camera was inserted into Eckert's anus, rectum, colon, and large intestines. No narcotics were found. 

Throughout this ordeal, Eckert protested and never gave doctors at the Gila Regional Medical Center consent to perform any of these medical procedures.

Think that's outrageous? David Eckert has since been billed by the hospital for all the procedures and they are threatening to take him to collections.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Appalling.

A 17-year-old Florida girl was raped and you won't believe the disgusting remarks of the investigating officer. From the report issued by Pinellas County Sheriff's Office:

During this interview, you made wholly inappropriate comments with sexual overtones to this sexual battery victim. Your sexual comments to the victim were irrelevant to the investigation. You described sexual acts and identified body parts during the interview with this victim using inappropriate words such as ass, fuck and tits.

That's just the beginning of this horrible story. The full report includes Martin asking an array of humiliating and unnecessary questions regarding anal sex, lesbian sex and even interjections about how she sounded like his ex-wife.

This wasn't the first time Martin had been investigated. He has a litany of charges on his record with internal affairs, including "domestic violence, false imprisonment, associating with a drug user, and lying to his superiors."

When reading stories like this, it's no wonder 60% of sexual assaults continue to go unreported. The only silver lining here is that Paul Martin has been fired and will no longer be working for the Pinellas County Sheriffs Office.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:
> 
> The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement.
> 
> ...


I would be suing for so much they would all be sh***ing their pants.

I think he should bring criminal charges for rape. 
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3209305.shtml?cat=500#.UnrW2ptilbs


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Appalling.
> 
> A 17-year-old Florida girl was raped and you won't believe the disgusting remarks of the investigating officer. From the report issued by Pinellas County Sheriff's Office:
> 
> ...


He will probably continue to abuse women, though. PIG


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great satire!!!!! (for those who don't catch on easily.)



Poor Purl said:


> NOVEMBER 6, 2013
> STUDY: AMERICANS SAFE FROM GUN VIOLENCE EXCEPT IN SCHOOLS, MALLS, AIRPORTS, MOVIE THEATRES, WORKPLACES, STREETS, OWN HOMES
> 
> POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Curse their greedy little hearts.



NJG said:


> Tea Party Republicans whined about the World War 2 memorial being closed during the government shutdown, but the real story is worse. These same Republicans want to privatize and sell our national parks.
> 
> Yes, its true. Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz proposed selling 3.3 million acres of public lands, Michele Bachmann wants to drill oil in the Florida Evergladesand Tea Party candidate Joe Miller ran on a platform to turn Alaskas Denali National Park into an oil well


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh the idiots. I hope he can sue them all personally and through the employer. Couldn't this be stopped by demanding an attorney?



NJG said:


> This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:
> 
> The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hate to see where the idiot ends up next.



NJG said:


> Appalling.
> 
> A 17-year-old Florida girl was raped and you won't believe the disgusting remarks of the investigating officer. From the report issued by Pinellas County Sheriff's Office:
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I would be suing for so much they would all be sh***ing their pants.
> 
> I think he should bring criminal charges for rape.
> http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3209305.shtml?cat=500#.UnrW2ptilbs


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You always make me laugh.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

From salon.com to women of Virginia:
If you like your uterus, you can keep it!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Such good news out of Virginia! I bet LTL is crying in her beer or maybe she spew herself into that pond of hers! 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Such good news out of Virginia! I bet LTL is crying in her beer or maybe she spew herself into that pond of hers!
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> From salon.com to women of Virginia:
> If you like your uterus, you can keep it!


LOL!!! and they can now keep Republicans out of it!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:
> 
> The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement.
> 
> ...


This crime is worse than it looks on the face of this reading. Those deputies, whatever the little piggies are/were, after getting their paperwork in one county actually took the man to another county. So the search warrant they had was never valid. Also, it had run out by the time the medical personnel prepped him for the final rape incident with the colonoscopy instruments. 
What they did to this man IS a crime. I hope every living *** one of them goes to jail and then loses all licenses and credentials.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL!!! and they can now keep Republicans out of it!!


Those RWNs never want to be IN a vagina, they just don't want women to enjoy having one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> From salon.com to women of Virginia:
> If you like your uterus, you can keep it!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Those RWNs never want to be IN a vagina, they just don't want women to enjoy having one.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:
> 
> The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement.
> 
> ...


What a horrible experience. There have been other stories recently about police stopping people for what seem to be flimsy reasons that have huge consequences.

A couple of months ago, _The New Yorker_ did a piece on a 1-stoplight town in Texas that regularly stops cars, looks for any excuse to jail the people in them (if all else fails, they claim their sniffing dogs indicated there were drugs inside), finds reasons to take their money and/or their car. This is considered a good way for a town to raise money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Appalling.
> 
> A 17-year-old Florida girl was raped and you won't believe the disgusting remarks of the investigating officer. From the report issued by Pinellas County Sheriff's Office:
> 
> ...


How much do you want to bet that Joe Arpaio offers Martin a job?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hate to see where the idiot ends up next.


Watch out; he's headed in your direction. Sheriff Joe is going to hire him.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> From salon.com to women of Virginia:
> If you like your uterus, you can keep it!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

How many people actually come to a full stop when they're supposed to, even when the police see them do it? I wonder if this man was African-American, Was this a horrific case of being arrested DWB? If so, all the people who participated in this incident should be charged with committing hate crimes, along with any other charges against them, one each for every act forced on this man. As a matter of fact, anyone who goes through an experience like that should be charged with committing hate crimes. It takes a lot of hatred to do what all the people involved did in this case.


NJG said:


> This news report out of New Mexico is so disturbing, it's hard to imagine this could happen in America. Talk about an unreasonable search:
> 
> The incident began January 2, 2013 after David Eckert finished shopping at the Wal-Mart in Deming. According to a federal lawsuit, Eckert didn't make a complete stop at a stop sign coming out of the parking lot and was immediately stopped by law enforcement.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How many people actually come to a full stop when they're supposed to, even when the police see them do it? I wonder if this man was African-American, Was this a horrific case of being arrested DWB? If so, all the people who participated in this incident should be charged with committing hate crimes, along with any other charges against them, one each for every act forced on this man. As a matter of fact, anyone who goes through an experience like that should be charged with committing hate crimes. It takes a lot of hatred to do what all the people involved did in this case.


And they were never satisfied, another enema and then an xray and a colonoscopy and now the hospital wants money. If the police were so out of control the hospital should have had some principles about the kind of care they give and refused to continue. It is hard to believe this happening in the US.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> And they were never satisfied, another enema and then an xray and a colonoscopy and now the hospital wants money. If the police were so out of control the hospital should have had some principles about the kind of care they give and refused to continue. It is hard to believe this happening in the US.


I believe it happened. Too much is happening in this country that's just as bad and worse. I tend to think the hospital staff involved believed that whatever the police wanted, they should get. Cynically speaking, of course the hospital billed that man.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there is at least one police shooting every day in some part of what is a very large urban area. The gangs that commit whatever crimes they want to use guns far too often. It's like the Wild West out there. I believe the police are scared s**tless and have reason to be, but they draw and use their guns faster and faster as the violence grows. I can understand the fear the police feel, but there are a noticable number of police killing suspects who could be subdued in another way without the police officers involved taking undue risk.

Tazers, rubber bullets, bean bag guns, etc. could be used safely and effectively. It doesn't seem right to me that criminals aren't brought before the Law in a courtroom and treated according to the Law. You don't have to tell me that far too many criminals end up right back on the street, that the prisons are horrible, over crowded snake pits, or that justice isn't being done. Remember this well: Justice and Law are two different things. Sometimes they agree. Often they do not.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I believe it happened. Too much is happening in this country that's just as bad and worse. I tend to think the hospital staff involved believed that whatever the police wanted, they should get. Cynically speaking, of course the hospital billed that man.
> 
> I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there is at least one police shooting every day in some part of what is a very large urban area. The gangs that commit whatever crimes they want to use guns far too often. It's like the Wild West out there. I believe the police are scared s**tless and have reason to be, but they draw and use their guns faster and faster as the violence grows. I can understand the fear the police feel, but there are a noticable number of police killing suspects who could be subdued in another way without the police officers involved taking undue risk.
> 
> Tazers, rubber bullets, bean bag guns, etc. could be used safely and effectively. It doesn't seem right to me that criminals aren't brought before the Law in a courtroom and treated according to the Law. You don't have to tell me that far too many criminals end up right back on the street, that the prisons are horrible, over crowded snake pits, or that justice isn't being done. Remember this well: Justice and Law are two different things. Sometimes they agree. Often they do not.


There was just a 19 year old shot and killed in Ames, Iowa this past weekend. The young man had gotten into a fight with his Dad and took Dad's truck and left with it. The Dad called the police, and they found him, followed him quite awhile at high speed onto the Iowa State campus. They had him cornered and he sat in the truck and kept reeving the motor. He was unarmed, which the police didn't know, except that he had not fired at them. My thought at that time was why didn't they shoot out the tires? They said he had backed into the patrol car and damaged it, so the officer fired 6 shots into the truck killing the young man. It just seems like such a waste, all starting with a fight with his Dad. I know police are trained to shoot to kill so they don't get killed, but this is so sad. I still wish they had shot out his tires.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> There was just a 19 year old shot and killed in Ames, Iowa this past weekend. The young man had gotten into a fight with his Dad and took Dad's truck and left with it. The Dad called the police, and they found him, followed him quite awhile at high speed onto the Iowa State campus. They had him cornered and he sat in the truck and kept reeving the motor. He was unarmed, which the police didn't know, except that he had not fired at them. My thought at that time was why didn't they shoot out the tires? They said he had backed into the patrol car and damaged it, so the officer fired 6 shots into the truck killing the young man. It just seems like such a waste, all starting with a fight with his Dad. I know police are trained to shoot to kill so they don't get killed, but this is so sad. I still wish they had shot out his tires.


I think it is a very efficient means of dealing with mental health issues. :evil:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

A 13 year old boy was shot seven times, shot to death, in Santa Rosa, CA a few days ago when he was stopped by police for carrying an toy AK-47. This stuff happens more and more often and it all stinks to high heaven. The police officer who shot the boy will gat off scott free, i'll bet. This incident will be called "justifiable". People is Santa Rosa are picketing with signs that say "No Justice, No Peace". I shake my head in sadness because there may be no justice, even if the officer who shot the boy goes on trial. The law will apply, but that doesn't mean anyone will get justice.

I just posted something about the law and justice, and I know I'm repeating myself. Picketing to protest can do a lot of good. It won't when people say 'No Justice, No Peace" because what they are protesting about will and can only be subject to any applicable laws. It's sad to see people who want to do good acting in a truly misguided way. Depending on what you believe, Justice is the province of God.


NJG said:


> There was just a 19 year old shot and killed in Ames, Iowa this past weekend. The young man had gotten into a fight with his Dad and took Dad's truck and left with it. The Dad called the police, and they found him, followed him quite awhile at high speed onto the Iowa State campus. They had him cornered and he sat in the truck and kept reeving the motor. He was unarmed, which the police didn't know, except that he had not fired at them. My thought at that time was why didn't they shoot out the tires? They said he had backed into the patrol car and damaged it, so the officer fired 6 shots into the truck killing the young man. It just seems like such a waste, all starting with a fight with his Dad. I know police are trained to shoot to kill so they don't get killed, but this is so sad. I still wish they had shot out his tires.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

19 yr old Renisha McBride left home on Friday afternoon.
Sometime on Saturday morning she had an accident, found out that her cell phone battery had died, decided to get out of her car and go seek help. She is now dead from a shotgun blast to the back of her head.

Police are seeking charges against a Dearborn Heights, Michigan resident for shooting and killing a 19-year-old Detroit woman who sought help at the residents house after a car accident early Saturday morning.
The Dearborn Heights Police Department said - and autopsy information from the Wayne County Medical Examiners Office confirm - that Renisha McBride was shot in the head with a shotgun around 0630 GMT (2:30 am EST) Saturday by a resident of a house near the scene of a car accident after attempting to seek help at the house. Her cellphone battery had died, her family said.

http://www.detroitnews.com/...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Renisha's heartbroken aunt asked, "He shot her in the head ... for what? For knocking on his door? If he felt scared or threatened, he should have called 911.

Not surprising, the young man who shot and killed Renisha is now seeking protection under Michigan's Stand Your Ground Law. He is claiming self-defense and has yet to be charged.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

One year ago, Glenda Moore and her sons - ages 4 and 2 - were caught in the "storm of all storms," Sandy. The mother grabbed her two precious boys and went looking for help. The 5' 3" woman was not able to hold on to the boys and they were swept from her arms. She went looking for help and nobody even bothered to open their doors to the frantic, grieving woman. She spent the night huddled on the back porch of a man who said he thought she was there to rob him.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

CBS retracts bogus Benghazi report, apologizes for airing false claims by Jed Lewison

Wonder what Fox News will say about this. I am sure they will believe the liar. If there's anything scandalous about Benghazi, it's how conservatives and their media lapdogs have tried to exploit it for political gain and viewer ratings.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254090/-CBS-retracts-bogus-Benghazi-report-apologizes-for-airing-false-claims?detail=email


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

More right wing adult bigoted stupidity at the expense of a child.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254056/-13-year-old-boy-suspended-for-wearing-purse?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> 19 yr old Renisha McBride left home on Friday afternoon.
> Sometime on Saturday morning she had an accident, found out that her cell phone battery had died, decided to get out of her car and go seek help. She is now dead from a shotgun blast to the back of her head.
> 
> Police are seeking charges against a Dearborn Heights, Michigan resident for shooting and killing a 19-year-old Detroit woman who sought help at the residents house after a car accident early Saturday morning.
> ...


If he shot her in the back of the head she had to be leaving, right? This really has to stop. What is wrong with these people?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> If he shot her in the back of the head she had to be leaving, right? This really has to stop. What is wrong with these people?


I have read reports that also said she was shot in the face so not sure which way it happened. The thing is you just can't shoot someone for knocking on your door. I won't open my door after dark either, but I will not shoot someone for knocking and will call someone to help them. This is just so sad.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I have read reports that also said she was shot in the face so not sure which way it happened. The thing is you just can't shoot someone for knocking on your door. I won't open my door after dark either, but I will not shoot someone for knocking and will call someone to help them. This is just so sad.


So her familiy has lost her, his family will lose him... because the RWNS and NRA supported by gun manufacturers say the world is a big, bad, scary, place.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Ronald Reagan.



jelun2 said:


> I think it is a very efficient means of dealing with mental health issues. :evil:


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> CBS retracts bogus Benghazi report, apologizes for airing false claims by Jed Lewison
> 
> Wonder what Fox News will say about this. I am sure they will believe the liar. If there's anything scandalous about Benghazi, it's how conservatives and their media lapdogs have tried to exploit it for political gain and viewer ratings.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254090/-CBS-retracts-bogus-Benghazi-report-apologizes-for-airing-false-claims?detail=email


       I'm waiting for retractions and apologies, but not holding my breath. It seems people believe what they want to believe.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I have read reports that also said she was shot in the face so not sure which way it happened. The thing is you just can't shoot someone for knocking on your door. I won't open my door after dark either, but I will not shoot someone for knocking and will call someone to help them. This is just so sad.


It is sad indeed. But not all of us will lose all common sense and integrity.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we all know who/what we need to lose.....starting with the NRA.



jelun2 said:


> So her familiy has lost her, his family will lose him... because the RWNS and NRA supported by gun manufacturers say the world is a big, bad, scary, place.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> And we all know who/what we need to lose.....starting with the NRA.


Not much chance of getting rid of the NRA any time soon. 
This push to have more states allow open carry laws is pretty astounding. Texas is next up, I guess.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm waiting for retractions and apologies, but not holding my breath. It seems people believe what they want to believe.


There is suppose to be something on 60 Minutes about it tomorrow night. Lara Logan apologized, but if Fox repeated it, they won't apologize. They will repeat it as the truth.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> So her familiy has lost her, his family will lose him... because the RWNS and NRA supported by gun manufacturers say the world is a big, bad, scary, place.


What a horrible story. She would have had a better chance if she'd been in a "bad" neighborhood.

Unfortunately, his family will probably not lose him. There's a stand-your-ground law at work.

But don't forget: guns don't kill people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> .


Oh, wow. Are turdles little turds?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, wow. Are turdles little turds?


I found this pic on Facebook, a gentleman had commented that a "turdle" was a candy made from turds. 
And now I will never eat one of those luscious caramel and nut covered in chocolate candies again.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I do not understand the lack of compassion from some people.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254164/-Kid-s-school-breakfast-trashed-over-30-cent-debt?detail=email


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

To Fox, it's only news if their base wants to hear it, and if it turns out to be a lie, don't talk about it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254149/-Fox-and-their-Republican-friends-go-silent-on-CBS-Benghazi-report-now-that-it-s-been-retracted?detail=email


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I do not understand the lack of compassion from some people.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254164/-Kid-s-school-breakfast-trashed-over-30-cent-debt?detail=email


Do you remember a year or so ago when a town's fire dept. let a family's house burn down because they hadn't paid their subscription (I think $75) for fire services. The firemen just stood there and watched while the house burned. The owners offered the money and more, but orders were to let it burn.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I do not understand the lack of compassion from some people.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254164/-Kid-s-school-breakfast-trashed-over-30-cent-debt?detail=email


Pissahs, pure and simple.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you remember a year or so ago when a town's fire dept. let a family's house burn down because they hadn't paid their subscription (I think $75) for fire services. The firemen just stood there and watched while the house burned. The owners offered the money and more, but orders were to let it burn.


I do not remember that. That is dreadful, and if you google it, it has happened again. I just don't understand that. Both times they offered the money and they refused to take it and let it burn.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, wow. Are turdles little turds?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Very good Purl.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nothing will ever spoil my appetite for Turtles.



jelun2 said:


> I found this pic on Facebook, a gentleman had commented that a "turdle" was a candy made from turds.
> And now I will never eat one of those luscious caramel and nut covered in chocolate candies again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd love to picket this school and make sure the media knows about it. Shame, for many reasons.



NJG said:


> I do not understand the lack of compassion from some people.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254164/-Kid-s-school-breakfast-trashed-over-30-cent-debt?detail=email


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not surprised at all. Lower than whale poo poo and dumber than a rock. Rupert Murdoch and his minions.



NJG said:


> To Fox, it's only news if their base wants to hear it, and if it turns out to be a lie, don't talk about it.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/08/1254149/-Fox-and-their-Republican-friends-go-silent-on-CBS-Benghazi-report-now-that-it-s-been-retracted?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you remember a year or so ago when a town's fire dept. let a family's house burn down because they hadn't paid their subscription (I think $75) for fire services. The firemen just stood there and watched while the house burned. The owners offered the money and more, but orders were to let it burn.


This week the mess is about a family being billed $20K for the battle to let their mobile home burn down. 
I am thinking, though, that the insurance people had a clause saying that you have to pay those fees. 
Privatization is really stupid.

If you don't pay your water bill the water gets shut off. 
The school situation is about a kid, it is about a kid going hungry while embarassed. It's over 30 freaking cents. 
That's not to say that the mother might have had 10 notices that her account was deficient. The kid went hungry. 
It was a big deal once upon a time for the schools to try to keep it confidential that kids were on the reduced lunch program.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Our leaders have to stand on principle. It's not the money; it's the principle. If they let one kid get away with eating an unpaid-for breakfast, all the other kids are going to want to save their 30 cents, too. Principles do not include protecting children or saving people's homes


jelun2 said:


> This week the mess is about a family being billed $20K for the battle to let their mobile home burn down.
> I am thinking, though, that the insurance people had a clause saying that you have to pay those fees.
> Privatization is really stupid.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Our leaders have to stand on principle. It's not the money; it's the principle. If they let one kid get away with eating an unpaid-for breakfast, all the other kids are going to want to save their 30 cents, too. Principles do not include protecting children or saving people's homes


...or our nation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> ...or our nation.


Amen.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Nothing will ever spoil my appetite for Turtles.


Mine either. I love turtles.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I bid you all good night, friends and empresses. 
Keep your chins up and your brains revvin'.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Not surprised at all. Lower than whale poo poo and dumber than a rock. Rupert Murdoch and his minions.


They know how to rake the bucks in. You would think that Murdock might be worried about where eternity might be spent. Sometimes I hope I am wrong and that there is a Hell.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I bid you all good night, friends and empresses.
> Keep your chins up and your brains revvin'.


Good night.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you remember a year or so ago when a town's fire dept. let a family's house burn down because they hadn't paid their subscription (I think $75) for fire services. The firemen just stood there and watched while the house burned. The owners offered the money and more, but orders were to let it burn.


Even in far off Australia we heard about this and we were shaking our heads wondering. Our Fire Brigades are either volunteer fire services of paid regulars. They receive their money from the Government. They are paid through the tax. We also have a 'fire services levy' on our Shire Rates, and it is compulsory. It was added to the householders house insurance policy costs but it was realised that some people did not carry household insurance so it was changed to be added to the Shire Rates. But even when it was part of the household insurance policy, people who did not carry household insurance could still rely on the Fire Brigade to come to their rescue when there was a fire.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> They know how to rake the bucks in. You would think that Murdock might be worried about where eternity might be spent. Sometimes I hope I am wrong and that there is a Hell.


Please, please, please do not mention Murdoch. In the 1975 elections the headlines in the Murdoch press read "Get Witlam". Witlam was the Labour Prime Minister and Murdoch was backing the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. Liberal does not mean the same in Australia as it does in USA, here Liberal = Liberal Party of Australia = Conservative. Yes, the Liberal Party with Malcolm Fraser won Government.

Then in the last election we had headlines in the Murdoch Press screaming about the Labour Government which read 'Ditch the Witch' about Jullia Gillard and then 'Get rid of this mob'.

And just look at the mess in England with all the phone hacking and shenanigans going on.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> They know how to rake the bucks in. You would think that Murdock might be worried about where eternity might be spent. Sometimes I hope I am wrong and that there is a Hell.


Remember the old saying "the devil looks after his own", very true with Murdoch and his cronies.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Instead now it's okay to embarrass a child over 30 cents owed, knowing full well that the child doesn't have 30 cents in their pocket.



jelun2 said:


> This week the mess is about a family being billed $20K for the battle to let their mobile home burn down.
> I am thinking, though, that the insurance people had a clause saying that you have to pay those fees.
> Privatization is really stupid.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My grandmother is spinning in her grave. No one went hungry when Grandma was around to stop it.



Poor Purl said:


> Our leaders have to stand on principle. It's not the money; it's the principle. If they let one kid get away with eating an unpaid-for breakfast, all the other kids are going to want to save their 30 cents, too. Principles do not include protecting children or saving people's homes


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A-a-men. (Can't you just hear Sidney Poitier and those nuns singing?)



jelun2 said:


> ...or our nation.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope springs eternal.



jelun2 said:


> They know how to rake the bucks in. You would think that Murdock might be worried about where eternity might be spent. Sometimes I hope I am wrong and that there is a Hell.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Even in far off Australia we heard about this and we were shaking our heads wondering. Our Fire Brigades are either volunteer fire services of paid regulars. They receive their money from the Government. They are paid through the tax. We also have a 'fire services levy' on our Shire Rates, and it is compulsory. It was added to the householders house insurance policy costs but it was realised that some people did not carry household insurance so it was changed to be added to the Shire Rates. But even when it was part of the household insurance policy, people who did not carry household insurance could still rely on the Fire Brigade to come to their rescue when there was a fire.


We used to have a normal system like that here, too. We still do in most states. But things have obviously changed if firemen can just stand around watching houses burn down and not wanting to rush in and help.

We are, embarrassingly, the country in which soldiers can come back from fighting a war and be allowed to become homeless or even kill themselves; the country in which people with 8 houses will do anything not to pay their fair share of taxes; children are not served breakfast because mothers did not have the necessary 30 cents.

Well, at least we have God on our side. Except for the gays.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Please, please, please do not mention Murdoch. In the 1975 elections the headlines in the Murdoch press read "Get Witlam". Witlam was the Labour Prime Minister and Murdoch was backing the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. Liberal does not mean the same in Australia as it does in USA, here Liberal = Liberal Party of Australia = Conservative. Yes, the Liberal Party with Malcolm Fraser won Government.
> 
> Then in the last election we had headlines in the Murdoch Press screaming about the Labour Government which read 'Ditch the Witch' about Jullia Gillard and then 'Get rid of this mob'.
> 
> And just look at the mess in England with all the phone hacking and shenanigans going on.


Come on. You gave him to the world, and your entire population should at least beg forgiveness for that.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Come on. You gave him to the world, and your entire population should at least beg forgiveness for that.


HAHAHAAA, a horrible thing to blame her for doing.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We used to have a normal system like that here, too. We still do in most states. But things have obviously changed if firemen can just stand around watching houses burn down and not wanting to rush in and help.
> 
> We are, embarrassingly, the country in which soldiers can come back from fighting a war and be allowed to become homeless or even kill themselves; the country in which people with 8 houses will do anything not to pay their fair share of taxes; children are not served breakfast because mothers did not have the necessary 30 cents.
> 
> Well, at least we have God on our side. Except for the gays.


We have homeless vets here in Australia. Returned soldiers who are so traumatised by their war experiences, or injured, they are unable to rejoin main stream society. They turn to alcohol or drugs and are forced to live on the street. Unfortunately a lot of people do not see them and refuse to acknowledge they exist. It was a similar experience after WW11. My father was sent overseas in April 1940, nearly 8 months before I was born. He came home, briefly in 1943, when I was 30 months old, only to be sent away again. He was discharged in December 1944, medically unfit. From then until he died in 1966 he spent more time in hospital than out of hospital. benefits in those days were no where near as generous as they are today. At one time in the early 1950s the family of mother, father and 5 children were receiving £3 8 in benefits and the rent alone was £3 10, and we had to wait weeks to receive it. My two older sisters were married and the eldest brother was not living at home because it was too difficult to get to work. My father also developed a serious drug habit, prescription drugs. The doctors handed them out to him like lollies. I know first hand what it means to be on queer street with no end in sight. I understand the difficulties faced by injured vets who are living on the street with no possible solution visible to them. I was not the only child facing these conditions, there were many more in the same boat. So many people refused to see what was happening. All they could say was "your father is an alcoholic and a drug addict, he does not deserve any better." He was eventually placed on the TPI, totally and permanently disabled pension from the Repatriation Department, now called the Department of Veteran Affairs

We treat our war injured, especially those with psychological damage, dreadfully. My younger brother faired better. He is a Vietnam vet who is on the TPI, the Vietnam Vets are now very vocal over here. But there have been some who have said that he is the second generation of bludgers living off their tax dollars. He struggled for years, trying to hold down a job before he had a mental breakdown.

All I ask is that people have some understanding of why people are homeless, and do not judge them so harshly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Eve, what a sad story. You must have had a difficult life growing up, though not as hard as your father's.

I know I'm guilty of turning away when someone stops me on the street asking for a handout. It hadn't occurred to me until now that they likely got that way from trying to protect the rest of us. We tend to toss people away as if they were used up, though we pay a lot of lip-service to them.


EveMCooke said:


> We have homeless vets here in Australia. Returned soldiers who are so traumatised by their war experiences, or injured, they are unable to rejoin main stream society. They turn to alcohol or drugs and are forced to live on the street. Unfortunately a lot of people do not see them and refuse to acknowledge they exist. It was a similar experience after WW11. My father was sent overseas in April 1940, nearly 8 months before I was born. He came home, briefly in 1943, when I was 30 months old, only to be sent away again. He was discharged in December 1944, medically unfit. From then until he died in 1966 he spent more time in hospital than out of hospital. benefits in those days were no where near as generous as they are today. At one time in the early 1950s the family of mother, father and 5 children were receiving £3 8 in benefits and the rent alone was £3 10, and we had to wait weeks to receive it. My two older sisters were married and the eldest brother was not living at home because it was too difficult to get to work. My father also developed a serious drug habit, prescription drugs. The doctors handed them out to him like lollies. I know first hand what it means to be on queer street with no end in sight. I understand the difficulties faced by injured vets who are living on the street with no possible solution visible to them. I was not the only child facing these conditions, there were many more in the same boat. So many people refused to see what was happening. All they could say was "your father is an alcoholic and a drug addict, he does not deserve any better." He was eventually placed on the TPI, totally and permanently disabled pension from the Repatriation Department, now called the Department of Veteran Affairs
> 
> We treat our war injured, especially those with psychological damage, dreadfully. My younger brother faired better. He is a Vietnam vet who is on the TPI, the Vietnam Vets are now very vocal over here. But there have been some who have said that he is the second generation of bludgers living off their tax dollars. He struggled for years, trying to hold down a job before he had a mental breakdown.
> 
> All I ask is that people have some understanding of why people are homeless, and do not judge them so harshly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> HAHAHAAA, a horrible thing to blame her for doing.


Not Eve alone; it would take the entire populations of Australia, New Zealand, and Papua-New Guinea to balance out the evils of Rupert Murdoch.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hope springs eternal.


I've been looking at your avatar for a few days trying to figure out what it is. I could tell from the spots that it was giraffe-related, but my eyes couldn't make out the details.

Now that I've zoomed in, I see it's a mommy giraffe kissing (I think) her baby on the head, and it's the sweetest thing I've seen in a long time. I love giraffes; they seem to defy the laws of nature.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not Eve alone; it would take the entire populations of Australia, New Zealand, and Papua-New Guinea to balance out the evils of Rupert Murdoch.


 :lol: true enough


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It's good news minute.

Becca Gorman, Student, Asks Apple To Change 'Gay' Dictionary Definition
The Huffington Post | By James Nichols	
Posted: 11/12/2013 10:53 am EST

A 15-year-old daughter of two lesbian parents is campaigning to have technology giant Apple change the definition of "gay" in the company's dictionary.

Becca Gorman was shocked when she looked up the definition of "gay" in the Apple dictionary while working on a school project about gay rights. The third definition provided by Apple struck Gorman as incredibly offensive:

"At first, I was kind of in disbelief," Gorman stated, reportedly claiming that she couldn't find any other dictionary's definition that framed "gay" within the same context.

After consulting with her parents, she decided to write a letter to historically LGBT-friendly Apple, whose CEO Tim Cook was recently named the most powerful gay man in the world even though he has never publicly discussed his sexuality.

"I assume that you are a pro-gay company, and would never intend for any one of your products to be as offensive as this definition was," Gorman reportedly wrote. "Even with your addition of the word 'informal,' this definition normalizes the terrible derogatory twist that many people put on the word 'gay.'"

Only an hour after receiving the letter, Apple reportedly called the Gorman household to speak with Becca. The company's representative told the teen that they were also shocked by the definition, and that Apple would look into correcting the problem. 
However, as of Tuesday morning the definition still remained the same.

"I feel like we're going to have to make a bigger deal about it before they actually act on it," Gorman told reporters.

This wouldn't be the first time that a dictionary definition has been changed to reflect current social and political attitudes. This past summer, Oxford English Dictionary announced that it was considering changing the definition of "marriage" to include the unions of same-sex couples.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/12/apple-dictionary-gay_n_4260174.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices&icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl15%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D404926


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought it was a lovely portrait of mother and child. Thanks for noticing.



Poor Purl said:


> I've been looking at your avatar for a few days trying to figure out what it is. I could tell from the spots that it was giraffe-related, but my eyes couldn't make out the details.
> 
> Now that I've zoomed in, I see it's a mommy giraffe kissing (I think) her baby on the head, and it's the sweetest thing I've seen in a long time. I love giraffes; they seem to defy the laws of nature.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Can you believe it? Bless that student for calling it to the attention of the CEO. At least there's someone to call... and we know what to call him.



jelun2 said:


> It's good news minute.
> 
> Becca Gorman, Student, Asks Apple To Change 'Gay' Dictionary Definition
> The Huffington Post | By James Nichols
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

That won't do CBS, That won't do

Sorry, CBS, but that section B, page 6 apology tacked into the Andy Rooney position of last week's 60 Minutes? It doesn't even begin to address the problem. Let's review.

You paraded an absolute fabrication in front of the world and gave assurances that it was the verified, vetted truth. The subject of this report was so serious, and the accusations it made so vile, that the story made a deep and immediate impact on the business of the nation. In a Congress already beset by deliberate stalling and obstruction, this one report provided succor to those trying to halt the gears of government. It acted as an excuse to delay appointments from the courts to the FCC. It is not an exaggeration to say that the cost of this mistake can be measured in lost jobs, lost dollars, and lost opportunities.

The cost can also be measured in the horrible emotional blows it landed. A swift kick to the families of those who lost their lives in Benghazi, who could easily conclude from this report that their loved ones had been cruelly abandoned. A slap in the face of those in the military and State Department who did all they could to help, and whose motives and actions were again called into doubt.

Your story brought on anguish, misery, and political turmoil. For a lie. But if that was the worst of it, if being "mislead" was your only failing, this pared down apologia might be sufficient. 

The thing is, the story itself was the least of it.

It's not that you made a mistake. It's that you sold that mistake with such vigor. You maintained that the report had been verified by FBI sources. It hadn't. Instead, sources in the FBI quite readily acknowledged that the story your source had provided to them did not match your information. You were already aware that Dylan Davies had given a different account of events to his employer. More than that, you were certainly aware that months of congressional testimony and investigations had produced information that directly contradicted the information in your story. The narrative provided by Davis should have been subject to the kind of extraordinary proof that such extraordinary claims demand. Far from validating the information, you deliberately and knowingly withheld information that made your source appear less reliable, and clearly you did not carry out the level of validation you maintained. That's not being misled. That's abetting a lie. That's collusion.

Why would you take this action? Well, the reporter in the story admitted openly that she had a direct, political motive. She wasn't passing along information to enlighten the public. She didn't even make a pretense at neutrality. She called for vindictive action against people who had done nothing wrong, on the basis of a story she knewknewwas at best the unverified second (if not the third) version of a story told by a confessed liar. In running her story without validation, you endorsed that position.

Finally, you ran the story with no admission that CBS' parent organization had a direct, financial interest in raising the profile of this tale and it's author. It's not the first time that a network has failed to divulge its clear interest in promoting other media properties in their portfolio, but it may be the most egregious.

A completely fabricated story? Yes, but that's not the real issue. Dylan Davies may have lied to you, but you lied to us. You pretended to verification you didn't do. You accepted a story from a reporter working toward an acknowledged political goal. And you ran a story in which you had an undisclosed, but clear financial interest.

That's journalistic malpractice in the first degree. "Whoops," is not going to cut it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Very well expressed. I guess it says something about the lack of faith that we have in our "news outlets" that we do no more than shrug and turn away. I do think that it is very interesting that Dan Rather was raked over the coals and this young woman was eased off the hook. Is that because he could withstand the pressure and it is perceived that she cannot or because CBS has no integrity?



NJG said:


> That won't do CBS, That won't do
> 
> Sorry, CBS, but that section B, page 6 apology tacked into the Andy Rooney position of last week's 60 Minutes? It doesn't even begin to address the problem. Let's review.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Very well expressed. I guess it says something about the lack of faith that we have in our "news outlets" that we do no more than shrug and turn away. I do think that it is very interesting that Dan Rather was raked over the coals and this young woman was eased off the hook. Is that because he could withstand the pressure and it is perceived that she cannot or because CBS has no integrity?


My guess is that CBS has no integrity when it comes to a story about our black President. I really hate to think that, but I haven't seen anything from them to change my mind. The story about Dan Rather drug on and on if I remember correctly and this one is suppose to be hush, hush--why so you don't make a big deal of the apology and maybe not everyone will see it. That is what Fox does, so why not CBS too.

If you google CBS 60 minutes there a bunch of other articles about it. Sounds like they are investigating further, but I am sure only because of articles like the one I posted from Daily Kos and the other ones too. Hope they aren't just trying to make themselves look better.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/13/what-is-cbs-hiding-who-is-cbs-protecting-at-60/196873

As it stonewalls, CBS cannot avoid the fact that in 2004 when 60 Minutes II was caught in a crossfire of conservative outrage after airing a disputed report about President Bush's Vietnam War record, the network appointed a former Republican attorney general, Richard Thornburgh, to investigate what went wrong. The review panel was given "full access and complete cooperation from CBS News and CBS, as well as all of the resources necessary to complete the task." Those resources included reporters' notes, e-mails, and draft scripts. The panel worked for three months, interviewed 66 people, and issued an-often scathing 234-page report.

Today, that standard established by CBS is being purposefully bypassed. But why? Is it a fear of even further embarrassment? If you're asking what could be more embarrassing than the current set of facts in which CBS was duped by an "eyewitness" impostor, the answer is, plenty. Imagine the possibly explosive findings to these questions:

*Did CBS executives have internal discussions about the network's clear conflict of interest with regards to Davies' book being published by CBS-owned Simon & Schuster and decided not to reference that conflict in the final Benghazi report?

*Did the impending book release impact the reporting in the segment or the timing of the broadcast?

*Did 60 Minutes producers have extensive contacts with partisan Republican sources while reporting on Benghazi?

*Did any CBS executives express serious doubts about Davies' account only to be overruled by Logan?

*Were script changes made to remove any doubts about Davies' account?

*Did any co-workers think that Logan was pursuing a political agenda with the Benghazi report?

My guess is that a truly transparent review would find 'yes' answers to two or three of those questions. But without an independent inquiry we won't know. In that regard, refusing to appoint a review panel covers up more bad news, which is what CBS seemingly wants. But a review could also help exonerate CBS with regards to some allegations, and address doubts about its professionalism.

Recall that one of the key conclusions from the National Guard panel review was that political bias did not play a role in how the controversial 2004 story was put together. For the Benghazi story though, it's impossible to know if CBS is equally free of prejudice unless there's an independent assessment.

The other key question: By resisting an honest and open evaluation, are CBS bosses trying to protect key players? Keep in mind that following the release of the National Guard panel review, several employees were fired, including the executive producer of 60 Minutes II. Given the extent of the Benghazi screw-up, it's likely an outside review today would find fault with the executive producer of today's 60 Minutes. Who is executive producer of 60 Minutes? It's Jeff Fager, who also runs CBS News. (The dual titles seem like an obvious conflict of interest.)

And since 60 Minutes correspondent Lara Logan says she was deeply involved in the reporting and the editing of the Benghazi piece, it's likely she would be the target of a stinging rebuke. So is CBS refusing to appoint an independent panel in an effort to protect its news boss Fager and its rising star Logan?

It certainly looks that way.

UPDATE: A CBS spokesperson today says the network is conducting a "journalistic review" of the Benghazi report. There's no indication the evaluation is being overseen by an outside, independent investigator -- as was the case with the National Guard review -- or whether the results of the review will be made public.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This from OccupyDemocrats.com


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> That won't do CBS, That won't do
> 
> Sorry, CBS, but that section B, page 6 apology tacked into the Andy Rooney position of last week's 60 Minutes? It doesn't even begin to address the problem. Let's review.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree with you 100%. It was a weak, limited retraction. At the very least, it requires a series of programs explaining what happened, and putting it in context of what's going on in the nation.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I smell a scapegoat.



jelun2 said:


> Very well expressed. I guess it says something about the lack of faith that we have in our "news outlets" that we do no more than shrug and turn away. I do think that it is very interesting that Dan Rather was raked over the coals and this young woman was eased off the hook. Is that because he could withstand the pressure and it is perceived that she cannot or because CBS has no integrity?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> My guess is that CBS has no integrity when it comes to a story about our black President. I really hate to think that, but I haven't seen anything from them to change my mind. The story about Dan Rather drug on and on if I remember correctly and this one is suppose to be hush, hush--why so you don't make a big deal of the apology and maybe not everyone will see it. That is what Fox does, so why not CBS too.
> 
> If you google CBS 60 minutes there a bunch of other articles about it. Sounds like they are investigating further, but I am sure only because of articles like the one I posted from Daily Kos and the other ones too. Hope they aren't just trying to make themselves look better.
> 
> ...


I have to go along with Norma. CBS has no integrity. How many journalists are truly out there searching for the facts and insisting that what they report is just that, the truth and nothing but the truth? I can only think of a handful of people in the media that I trust not to be promoting someone's agenda be they on the left or the right and where does that leave a country where so many of it's citizens have no desire to go out and search for the truth but rely solely on one maybe two sources of information and swallow it all hook, line and sinker.
It is frightening. Jelun your post of sheep is so fitting.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The 64K dollar question, my lovely empresses, is what they heck do we get to do to turn it 'round?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know.



jelun2 said:


> The 64K dollar question, my lovely empresses, is what they heck do we get to do to turn it 'round?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The 64K dollar question, my lovely empresses, is what they heck do we get to do to turn it 'round?


Do you have any suggestions Empress jelun? I have several radical ideas rolling around in my head, none of them pleasant.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Fellow Empresses I bid you goodnight and sweet dreams. I watched another JFK documentary on PBS and once again I am sad. I will never get over that terrible event in our history.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So far I have failed to find an article from the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine that impressed me so much that I still think of it on a regular basis. 
The author put forward that we will be entering into a second revolutionary period , and that was the way it was phrased, during the 2020s.
I hate to think that we must come to that, I don't see any way around it, however. 
Just as with that sad, sad Mayor of Toronto we may still be in denial, we will hit bottom and then have to work every day to alter our life style. 
Another 10 years of this? That does make sense I suppose for the least aware among us to realize that we have become a plutocracy and want to alter that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have the problem with the radical ideas too.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Do you have any suggestions Empress jelun? I have several radical ideas rolling around in my head, none of them pleasant.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It was the day the music died to many of us. The death of innocence.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Fellow Empresses I bid you goodnight and sweet dreams. I watched another JFK documentary on PBS and once again I am sad. I will never get over that terrible event in our history.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope you find the article, and I hope I'm not too afraid to read it.



jelun2 said:


> So far I have failed to find an article from the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine that impressed me so much that I still think of it on a regular basis.
> The author put forward that we will be entering into a second revolutionary period , and that was the way it was phrased, during the 2020s.
> I hate to think that we must come to that, I don't see any way around it, however.
> Just as with that sad, sad Mayor of Toronto we may still be in denial, we will hit bottom and then have to work every day to alter our life style.
> Another 10 years of this? That does make sense I suppose for for the least aware among us to realize that we have become a plutocracy and want to alter that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I hope you find the article, and I hope I'm not too afraid to read it.


It is interesting that the Dems didn't feel the need to take the Occupy troops into the fold as the Reps did with the Tea Party. 
I wonder exactly what that says. 
My initial thought is that perhaps Dems view themselves as so inclusive that it isn't necessary? That's amusing, isn't it?
I suppose, and here goes my prejudice, those investment types with the big campaign bucks might not like might not be too happy with embracing the more radical among us.

Another thing that amuses is the idea that the right wingers on this site think that they can determine what is on the minds of Dem leadership when the people who think like them cannot.

My dear Empress, the article was not graphic, it was intriguing.


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## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

NJG said:


> That won't do CBS, That won't do
> 
> Sorry, CBS, but that section B, page 6 apology tacked into the Andy Rooney position of last week's 60 Minutes? It doesn't even begin to address the problem. Let's review.
> 
> ...


Amen and Amen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is interesting that the Dems didn't feel the need to take the Occupy troops into the fold as the Reps did with the Tea Party.
> I wonder exactly what that says.
> My initial thought is that perhaps Dems view themselves as so inclusive that it isn't necessary? That's amusing, isn't it?
> I suppose, and here goes my prejudice, those investment types with the big campaign bucks might not like might not be too happy with embracing the more radical among us.
> ...


Empress Jelun, I have some suggestions in answer to your points. 1. The Dems are nowhere near as liberal as we would like or as the RWN think they are. Janeane Garofalo used to speak of "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," which I guess would be where I belong. Quite a few Dem pols have ties to various industries and would hate to have to cut those ties. Not only investment types but Baucus from Montana has ties to some industry - he's always the toughest to convince to vote with the party. And Joe Lieberman, before he went "independent," was referred to as the Senator from Aetna.

2. About right-wingers believing that they know what Dem leaders think, I often chuckle about that. Let one of us say one thing they disapprove of and it's "you libs always..." This comes from the fact that they're all taking their talking points from one place and therefore think we are, too.

John Dean, Nixon's Republican lawyer during Watergate, wrote a book a few years ago in which he describes some people as "authoritarian," meaning they like to have someone in authority to tell them what to do. He concluded that most Republican voters were authoritarian and most Democratic voters were not.

3. I, too, would be interested in that Globe article you talk about. Keep looking.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Empress Jelun, I have some suggestions in answer to your points. 1. The Dems are nowhere near as liberal as we would like or as the RWN think they are. Janeane Garofalo used to speak of "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," which I guess would be where I belong. Quite a few Dem pols have ties to various industries and would hate to have to cut those ties. Not only investment types but Baucus from Montana has ties to some industry - he's always the toughest to convince to vote with the party. And Joe Lieberman, before he went "independent," was referred to as the Senator from Aetna.
> 
> 2. About right-wingers believing that they know what Dem leaders think, I often chuckle about that. Let one of us say one thing they disapprove of and it's "you libs always..." This comes from the fact that they're all taking their talking points from one place and therefore think we are, too.
> 
> ...


I just did another quick search, I am just not coming up with a phrase that pulls it up. Hmmm, economics perhaps.

You made excellent points. People seem to forget that the people we vote into office are quite affluent which is why they think it gives them some sense of poverty to live on SNAP benefits for a week. So yes, those Occupy folks may as well be refugees from Zimbabwe to most of them. 
I hate generalizing that way, most of them sounds way too much like all of them. 
Anywho, they are definitely in the mainstream. The idea that they are socialists is laughable. Having a conscience is a totally different thing than being a socialist.

That one main thought thing is pretty funny, even in our small group there are some wide gaps in thinking. 
The big difference is that we can pretty much look at what another thinks and make some sense of it, fit it into our sphere of understanding.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm intrigued. I'm ready to peruse the situation.



jelun2 said:


> It is interesting that the Dems didn't feel the need to take the Occupy troops into the fold as the Reps did with the Tea Party.
> I wonder exactly what that says.
> My initial thought is that perhaps Dems view themselves as so inclusive that it isn't necessary? That's amusing, isn't it?
> I suppose, and here goes my prejudice, those investment types with the big campaign bucks might not like might not be too happy with embracing the more radical among us.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I too think the Democratic Party has allowed itself to be labeled as liberal by the right. There are so many nutcases on the right that I think even a moderate would be a great improvement to most of us.

Personally, I would label myself as a hopeful and reasonable liberal.



Poor Purl said:


> Empress Jelun, I have some suggestions in answer to your points. 1. The Dems are nowhere near as liberal as we would like or as the RWN think they are. Janeane Garofalo used to speak of "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party," which I guess would be where I belong. Quite a few Dem pols have ties to various industries and would hate to have to cut those ties. Not only investment types but Baucus from Montana has ties to some industry - he's always the toughest to convince to vote with the party. And Joe Lieberman, before he went "independent," was referred to as the Senator from Aetna.
> 
> 2. About right-wingers believing that they know what Dem leaders think, I often chuckle about that. Let one of us say one thing they disapprove of and it's "you libs always..." This comes from the fact that they're all taking their talking points from one place and therefore think we are, too.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I just did another quick search, I am just not coming up with a phrase that pulls it up. Hmmm, economics perhaps.
> 
> You made excellent points. People seem to forget that the people we vote into office are quite affluent which is why they think it gives them some sense of poverty to live on SNAP benefits for a week. So yes, those Occupy folks may as well be refugees from Zimbabwe to most of them.
> I hate generalizing that way, most of them sounds way too much like all of them.
> ...


And I think that is also the reason we all crave discussion.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I too think the Democratic Party has allowed itself to be labeled as liberal by the right. There are so many nutcases on the right that I think even a moderate would be a great improvement to most of us.
> 
> Personally, I would label myself as a hopeful and reasonable liberal.


And so would I, whereas, I am a raving Lib... socialist. See? We like diversity of views.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been known to rave too.



jelun2 said:


> And so would I, whereas, I am a raving Lib... socialist. See? We like diversity of views.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I too think the Democratic Party has allowed itself to be labeled as liberal by the right. There are so many nutcases on the right that I think even a moderate would be a great improvement to most of us.
> 
> Personally, I would label myself as a hopeful and reasonable liberal.


In other words, Empress Dame, the wingnuts will label you as a Commie and a Marxist.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In other words, Empress Dame, the wingnuts will label you as a Commie and a Marxist.


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sticks and stones, as far as I'm concerned. Labels are useless. Shortcuts to stereotypes.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I thought this was REALLY interesting. 
Speaking of Occupy...

Occupy Wall Street group buys up and wipes out $15M of Americans medical debt

The Rolling Jubilee project buys up debt on the cheap and then forgives it, unburdening Americans swamped in payments.

Comments (8)
REUTERS

An Occupy Wall Street spin-off group has bought up $14.7 million worth of Americans' personal medical debt and forgiven it over the last year as part of its Rolling Jubilee project, the group announced Monday.
The Rolling Jubilee project, organized by Occupy Wall Street's Strike Debt group, has so far spent $400,000 to buy the debt, in the process relieving 2,693 people of the money they owed for medical services Occupy thinks should be free.

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/occupy-wall-street-group-buys-wipes-15m-medical-debt-article-1.1516088


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I thought this was REALLY interesting.
> Speaking of Occupy...
> 
> Occupy Wall Street group buys up and wipes out $15M of Americans medical debt
> ...


What an extraordinary thing to do. These are people who really do put their money where their mouth is.

Truly, I am flabbergasted. Here are these people quietly going around doing good, and there's no mention of them until this article appears. I need to get in touch with them. How hard would it be for some of the wealthier libs to move this so much further?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What an extraordinary thing to do. These are people who really do put their money where their mouth is.
> 
> Truly, I am flabbergasted. Here are these people quietly going around doing good, and there's no mention of them until this article appears. I need to get in touch with them. How hard would it be for some of the wealthier libs to move this so much further?


I am guessing that with $400K they must have some fundraising help. 
That was where my NJ daughter's Santa Day gift went last year. It was designated for Sandy clean up, though.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

And now we have this from the GOP loons...

http://www.newser.com/story/177541/house-gopers-move-to-impeach-holder.html

House GOP Starts Longshot Move to Impeach Holder
LAWMAKERS CITE FAST AND FURIOUS, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE

Ten angry men and Michele Bachmann have launched a longshot bid to impeach Attorney General Eric Holder. The group of conservative House Republicans plans to formally introduce the articles of impeachment today, calling for Holder's removal for refusing to turn over documents in the Operation Fast and Furious scandal, failing to enforce laws on same-sex marriage and drug sentencing, and for not prosecuting an IRS official for allegedly targeting conservative political activists, Roll Call reports.

"This was not a decision that I made lightly," said Rep. Pete Olson, who drafted the articles. Since the House voted in 2012 to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt, the pattern of disregard for the rule of law and refusal to be forthright has only continued," said Olson, one of six Texans in the group of 11. But there's little chance of Holder actually being impeached: There is no sign John Boehner or other GOP leaders will back the measure, Politico notes, and even if it does pass the House, there would have to be a trial in the Senate before Holder was removed. A former top aide to Holder called the impeachment laughable. "I cant believe they didnt include Benghazi and the Black Panthers because this is a list of every other Republican bugaboo and conspiracy theory," he scoffed.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Can someone pullllleeeeze get Michelle Bachmann to put a sock on it!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Can someone pullllleeeeze get Michelle Bachmann to put a sock on it!


MMHmHHHmmmrrrrhmmm


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I can barely stand it. 
Some woman on another thread is posting that the Healthcare.gov website is comparable to website her son's company is setting up. 
K1, P2, K3, P6 repeat for 8 rows...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo! A wonderful idea.



jelun2 said:


> I thought this was REALLY interesting.
> Speaking of Occupy...
> 
> Occupy Wall Street group buys up and wipes out $15M of Americans medical debt
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Loony.....and a waste of money. I guess they never think of that when they're doing the spending.



jelun2 said:


> And now we have this from the GOP loons...
> 
> http://www.newser.com/story/177541/house-gopers-move-to-impeach-holder.html
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's not running for re-election (good), husband still under indictment? (bad), won't shut her trap (very bad.)

Any ideas? Mine are all radical.



MindyT said:


> Can someone pullllleeeeze get Michelle Bachmann to put a sock on it!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lunatics running lose. Thanks Ronnie.



jelun2 said:


> I can barely stand it.
> Some woman on another thread is posting that the Healthcare.gov website is comparable to website her son's company is setting up.
> K1, P2, K3, P6 repeat for 8 rows...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Loony.....and a waste of money. I guess they never think of that when they're doing the spending.


That's absolutely right. Millions spent to do phony repeal of the ACA. A hit of billions on the economy due to that stupid shut down. 
I forget how much spent from the House to fight to keep DOMA. Now this. I just love fiscal responsibility.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That's absolutely right. Millions spent to do phony repeal of the ACA. A hit of billions on the economy due to that stupid shut down.
> I forget how much spent from the House to fight to keep DOMA. Now this. I just love fiscal responsibility.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: but sad just the same. Important to keep it in mind.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: but sad just the same. Important to keep it in mind.


Good reason to work on the flexibilty, I want to be able to participate come the revolution. 
Nite, Empress dm.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I can barely stand it.
> Some woman on another thread is posting that the Healthcare.gov website is comparable to website her son's company is setting up.
> K1, P2, K3, P6 repeat for 8 rows...


Maybe her son's company is really, really big. Really, really, really big.

But truthfully, why didn't they check out the site months earlier? And why was it not predicted that many ins. companies would drop their cheap, sleazy policies? Surely the CBO figured that out.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe her son's company is really, really big. Really, really, really big.
> 
> But truthfully, why didn't they check out the site months earlier? And why was it not predicted that many ins. companies would drop their cheap, sleazy policies? Surely the CBO figured that out.


One reason they didn't check it all out was, I think I recall, that many states waited for an extraordinary time to say that they wouldn't set up their own exchanges. I think that has put a lot of extra stressors on the system.

I think that in some ways President Obama is naive, I think that he expected that because the health insurance companies agreed to this system early on that they were on board and wouldn't screw around. Silly him.

Plus, I haven't seen it in writing but have heard it referenced that Congress shorted the monies to get the network up and running. 
Hey, I don't know. This certainly isn't the system I wanted in place. 
As far as I was concerned the damned insurance industry could sell supplementals to rich people and the rest of us would have nationalized policies. 
So much for what I want. 
And now, I am going to try to sleep again.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> One reason they didn't check it all out was, I think I recall, that many states waited for an extraordinary time to say that they wouldn't set up their own exchanges. I think that has put a lot of extra stressors on the system.
> 
> I think that in some ways President Obama is naive, I think that he expected that because the health insurance companies agreed to this system early on that they were on board and wouldn't screw around. Silly him.
> 
> ...


I think you're right. He keeps taking them all at their word: insurance companies, Repubs, everyone but Occupy.

Go to sleep. Then I can stop waiting for your next message.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> :thumbup:


Isn't it also strange that they throw out the terms like Marsixt, Socialists, etc. without fully knowing what the terms really imply?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Isn't it also strange that they throw out the terms like Marsixt, Socialists, etc. without fully knowing what the terms really imply?


It is strange, it is sad, and it is ugly. 
The people using those terms very often are the same people who say that if someone believes differently than they do they don't deserve to live here.

A woman on site who is a Muslim has been posting parables from Islam, great little teachable moments. 
One member broke in with those accusations about the Quran teaching to kill all infidels. 
Geez Louise. All of the feel good stuff about "embracing differences" and we get that as soon as someone lets it be known that they are different. 
:-(


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The smart thing would be to build rapport with the industry as the planning was happening. Knowing they planned to cancel policies would have alerted all.

Either they hired the 'lowest bidder' (unable to do the job) or this was planned to fail.

Just thinking how things are turning out.



Poor Purl said:


> Maybe her son's company is really, really big. Really, really, really big.
> 
> But truthfully, why didn't they check out the site months earlier? And why was it not predicted that many ins. companies would drop their cheap, sleazy policies? Surely the CBO figured that out.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And then I wake up. Are we on shifts?



Poor Purl said:


> I think you're right. He keeps taking them all at their word: insurance companies, Repubs, everyone but Occupy.
> 
> Go to sleep. Then I can stop waiting for your next message.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm used to it now. They just do the blog blather thing and complain.



cynthia627 said:


> Isn't it also strange that they throw out the terms like Marsixt, Socialists, etc. without fully knowing what the terms really imply?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Isn't it also strange that they throw out the terms like Marsixt, Socialists, etc. without fully knowing what the terms really imply?


Not strange, just dumb. They often say things without understanding them, and absolutely without considering the consequences.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm used to it now. They just do the blog blather thing and complain.


If I'm called a bully one more time, I'll...well, there's nothing I can do, really, except say "shut up" or something equally intelligent.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The smart thing would be to build rapport with the industry as the planning was happening. Knowing they planned to cancel policies would have alerted all.
> 
> Either they hired the 'lowest bidder' (unable to do the job) or this was planned to fail.
> 
> Just thinking how things are turning out.


I thought they were doing that. There were a lot of stories about input from the insurance industry and pharma. And then surprise, surprise. And the website - they would have done better with a bunch of junior high school kids than whoever they did hire.

The possibility that this was planned to fail puts fear in me. I'll think about it tomorrow.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> And then I wake up. Are we on shifts?


You wake up at crazy times. You posted at 7:17 am my time, which must have been 5? 4? am your time.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I can barely stand it.
> Some woman on another thread is posting that the Healthcare.gov website is comparable to website her son's company is setting up.
> K1, P2, K3, P6 repeat for 8 rows...


Oh my gosh I read that. And there are a couple of other posters that I started to respond to but I just could not find the words. I'm afraid it may have been beyond their comprehension.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Isn't it also strange that they throw out the terms like Marsixt, Socialists, etc. without fully knowing what the terms really imply?


Over and over and over......


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe we should find a way to say 'I'm ignoring stupid people.'



Poor Purl said:


> Not strange, just dumb. They often say things without understanding them, and absolutely without considering the consequences.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You seem the very opposite of a bully....polite....willing to talk about varying opinions factually...informed...intelligent.

I guess it just makes the bully tag funnier.



Poor Purl said:


> If I'm called a bully one more time, I'll...well, there's nothing I can do, really, except say "shut up" or something equally intelligent.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK Scarlet. I want to hear your opinion on planned to fail...aka sabotage.



Poor Purl said:


> I thought they were doing that. There were a lot of stories about input from the insurance industry and pharma. And then surprise, surprise. And the website - they would have done better with a bunch of junior high school kids than whoever they did hire.
> 
> The possibility that this was planned to fail puts fear in me. I'll think about it tomorrow.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's a fun short quiz, though at the end you'll be asked to make a donation.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/foxorfiction


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm 2 hours earlier at this time of year; 3 hours during Daylight Savings. I just wake up and can't go back to sleep sometimes. Let's just tell the righties I'm always watching.



Poor Purl said:


> You wake up at crazy times. You posted at 7:17 am my time, which must have been 5? 4? am your time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good thought. That's what stops me sometimes. There is no response except 'you're nuts and I like to have a more thoughtful response.



GWPlver said:


> Oh my gosh I read that. And there are a couple of other posters that I started to respond to but I just could not find the words. I'm afraid it may have been beyond their comprehension.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It proved I can't think like Fox.



Poor Purl said:


> Here's a fun short quiz, though at the end you'll be asked to make a donation.
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/foxorfiction


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That's absolutely right. Millions spent to do phony repeal of the ACA. A hit of billions on the economy due to that stupid shut down.
> I forget how much spent from the House to fight to keep DOMA. Now this. I just love fiscal responsibility.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I can barely stand it.
> Some woman on another thread is posting that the Healthcare.gov website is comparable to website her son's company is setting up.
> K1, P2, K3, P6 repeat for 8 rows...


Jelun2, you are doing a fantastic job stating the facts, pointing out fallacies, and providing solid reasoning and arguments. I don't know how you can keep it up, and I applaud you. I read a little on a few other threads, and I just want to pull my hair out! The one you referred to above was a real winner. I think her son should offer his services to debug the ACA website.
You are a better person than I Gunga Din!
:thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Jelun2, you are doing a fantastic job stating the facts, pointing out fallacies, and providing solid reasoning and arguments. I don't know how you can keep it up, and I applaud you. I read a little on a few other threads, and I just want to pull my hair out! The one you referred to above was a real winner. I think her son should offer his services to debug the ACA website.
> You are a better person than I Gunga Din!
> :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Jelun is a treasure.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm used to it now. They just do the blog blather thing and complain.


Sure, I saw Michele Bachmann, today, doing a press conference.
I have forgottten what the word or phrase was that she used, it was the same that these folks have been utilizing here for the past few days.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I thought they were doing that. There were a lot of stories about input from the insurance industry and pharma. And then surprise, surprise. And the website - they would have done better with a bunch of junior high school kids than whoever they did hire.
> 
> The possibility that this was planned to fail puts fear in me. I'll think about it tomorrow.


I don't think that we have any conception concerning how difficult that process is. 
They are dealing with 34(?) different states, a variety of insurance companies, who knows how many federal agencies, plus the different state agencies and the obstacles that some like Florida and Texas have set up. Who knows which other states have done the same, or the same only different as we used to say... 
I think we are spoiled, hit the button the world is before us.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

TY TY, Empress dm


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Jelun2, you are doing a fantastic job stating the facts, pointing out fallacies, and providing solid reasoning and arguments. I don't know how you can keep it up, and I applaud you. I read a little on a few other threads, and I just want to pull my hair out! The one you referred to above was a real winner. I think her son should offer his services to debug the ACA website.
> You are a better person than I Gunga Din!
> :thumbup:


It will slow a bit, I am afraid. I have found that the only way I can avoid reading and getting annoyed by the "team" is to ignore any thread that has one of them as the last post. 
It is tiresome to know that people really have their minds made up with very little information and won't read what is provided. 
I put the same information about the contract for that fricken fracken IT company being done in 2007 on 3 separate occasions this week. WTH! Well, you all know you have been at it here longer than I. 
Well, thanks for the compliment and the opportunity to whine. 
We all do a good job of buzzing around and providing support, factual backup, and even the occasional display of "we don't all think alike" isms. I think it is great.

EDIT: There are those who don't know the difference between fiction and reality.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> There are those who don't know the difference between fiction and reality.


But fiction is so warm and cuddly and soft and fuzzy, like snuggling up with a good fairy tale. Escapism from the truth. Reality is the cold hard truth, with jagged edges that poke sharp knives into your brain.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very poetic Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> But fiction is so warm and cuddly and soft and fuzzy, like snuggling up with a good fairy tale. Escapism from the truth. Reality is the cold hard truth, with jagged edges that poke sharp knives into your brain.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Very poetic Eve.


I prefer the fiction that all Christians want to follow in Jesus of Nazareth's footsteps.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> But fiction is so warm and cuddly and soft and fuzzy, like snuggling up with a good fairy tale. Escapism from the truth. Reality is the cold hard truth, with jagged edges that poke sharp knives into your brain.


You and I read very different books.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> But fiction is so warm and cuddly and soft and fuzzy, like snuggling up with a good fairy tale. Escapism from the truth. Reality is the cold hard truth, with jagged edges that poke sharp knives into your brain.


LOL, this particular fiction mentioned was not. 
Someone was alluding to President Obama as the (a?) Manchurian Candidate. 
I could hear the hour chiming from the old cuckoo clock.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Apologies to Poor Purl and Jelun. I did not mean to offend. It was my poor attempt at humour. It does not reflect my reading habits as I read very little fiction. My reading of late has been history. I am sorry if I have upset you.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Apologies to Poor Purl and Jelun. I did not mean to offend. It was my poor attempt at humour. It does not reflect my reading habits as I read very little fiction. My reading of late has been history. I am sorry if I have upset you.


I liked it. Reality and truth are very often disturbing. I too read little fiction - history and biography have always been my favourites.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Apologies to Poor Purl and Jelun. I did not mean to offend. It was my poor attempt at humour. It does not reflect my reading habits as I read very little fiction. My reading of late has been history. I am sorry if I have upset you.


Oh my goodness, Eve, never... I was just trying to clarify... you don't really think that with all the BS we have put up with from the disrespectful right wing that you could say much that would get under our skin. 
I am sorry that you understood, and yes, generally the fiction (50 Shades) is pretty superficial.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Apologies to Poor Purl and Jelun. I did not mean to offend. It was my poor attempt at humour. It does not reflect my reading habits as I read very little fiction. My reading of late has been history. I am sorry if I have upset you.


Oh, no, Eve. You didn't offend me or upset me. I thought you wrote a good description of fiction - at any rate, most fiction.

My response was, to some extent, my attempt at humor, also. I am reading, for a class I'm taking, Marcel Proust's _Remembrance of Things Past,_ thousands of pages of hardly any fun at all. That's why I said we read very different books.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, I am actually sorry that you misunderstood. 
Geez.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love the cartoon. Great question.



jelun2 said:


> I prefer the fiction that all Christians want to follow in Jesus of Nazareth's footsteps.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I too find much truth in fiction.



Poor Purl said:


> You and I read very different books.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like a cruel class.



Poor Purl said:


> Oh, no, Eve. You didn't offend me or upset me. I thought you wrote a good description of fiction - at any rate, most fiction.
> 
> My response was, to some extent, my attempt at humor, also. I am reading, for a class I'm taking, Marcel Proust's _Remembrance of Things Past,_ thousands of pages of hardly any fun at all. That's why I said we read very different books.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sounds like a cruel class.


Actually not. The person teaching is both brilliant and a lot of fun to listen to. I can't keep up with the reading, but I don't have to. And it's one more notch on my lit'ry belt.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Was anyone aware that this was legal:

Dear EmailNation Subscriber,

It's not allowed to happen in Russia, or in Kazakhstanbut in the United States, children as young as twelve are allowed to toil on tobacco farms, performing backbreaking work and putting their health and lives at risk.

As Gabriel Thompson and Mariya Strauss document in The Nation, agricultural work is dangerous: on top of exposure to heavy pesticides and the possibility of acute nicotine poisoning, young workers are vulnerable to hazards involving farm vehicles, grain silos and manure pits.

The Children's Act for Responsible Employment (CARE Act), introduced by Representative Lucille Roybal-Allard this year but blocked by the GOP-controlled Education and Workforce Committee, would bring child labor standards in line with protections in other industries and increase civil penalties for abuse. The measure faces stiff opposition, but the exploitation of children, in the final telling, should be impossible to defend.

Join The Nation in calling for an end to child labor in agriculture. Contact your representatives and demand they fight to bring the CARE Act up for a vote. Then tweet at Representative John Kline (@repjohnkline), chair of the Education and Workforce Committee, and demand his committee act to fight this gross injustice. 

All best,

Sarah Arnold, The Nation


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I didn't know, but I can't say I'm surprised. Disgraceful.



Poor Purl said:


> Was anyone aware that this was legal:
> 
> Dear EmailNation Subscriber,
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was anyone aware that this was legal:
> 
> Dear EmailNation Subscriber,
> 
> ...


Thanks for bringing this up, My Empress. 
I have been meaning to subscribe to the digital version for some time. I guess I need to get off my duff and take care of business. 
It fits right in with that Jesus cartoon, doesn't it?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for bringing this up, My Empress.
> I have been meaning to subscribe to the digital version for some time. I guess I need to get off my duff and take care of business.
> It fits right in with that Jesus cartoon, doesn't it?


That it does. All of us sitting around waiting for "someone else" to make things better and not even knowing what evils there are.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I was not aware this was going on. It seems to me Senator Grassley was talking about something like this but didn't want to make it difficult for farm kids to work on their family farms like in Iowa. I may be way off about that, but here are some other stories.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/series/children-in-the-field/Bay-Area-Children-in-the-Field-164621746.html

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/series/children-in-the-field/Children-in-the-Field-North-Carolina-Tobacco-Farms-165011006.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497768/

My memory is better than I thought, yes Grassley has been commenting.

http://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/Article.cfm?customel_dataPageID_1502=38816

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/01/17/405438/gop-senator-says-child-labor-needed-to-fight-obesity-how-can-kids-be-active-if-they-are-limited-by-the-law/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/18/1055938/-Limiting-child-farm-labor-promotes-obesity-says-Iowa-Sen-Chuck-Grassley


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I was not aware this was going on. It seems to me Senator Grassley was talking about something like this but didn't want to make it difficult for farm kids to work on their family farms like in Iowa. I may be way off about that, but here are some other stories.
> 
> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/series/children-in-the-field/Bay-Area-Children-in-the-Field-164621746.html
> 
> ...


Grassley could be right about the diet thing. Just think, if a kids loses an arm OMG, I can't even go there.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Grassley could be right about the diet thing. Just think, if a kids loses an arm OMG, I can't even go there.


I have a cousin right now, farmed all his life, has COPD. He blames it on the insecticides he breathed in over the years. When he started farming, as a kid helping his dad and then for himself, they didn't even think that breathing in all that stuff, let alone all the dirt and dust, could be doing harm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I was not aware this was going on. It seems to me Senator Grassley was talking about something like this but didn't want to make it difficult for farm kids to work on their family farms like in Iowa. I may be way off about that, but here are some other stories.
> 
> http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/series/children-in-the-field/Bay-Area-Children-in-the-Field-164621746.html
> 
> ...


Grassley is concerned about childhood obesity, so kids need to work in the fields full time. The man is all heart. Too bad it's made of stone - and his brain is made of the same material.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I have a cousin right now, farmed all his life, has COPD. He blames it on the insecticides he breathed in over the years. When he started farming, as a kid helping his dad and then for himself, they didn't even think that breathing in all that stuff, let alone all the dirt and dust, could be doing harm.


Right, it is just the way life is. You get the chance to help your family or make a bit of money... no masks whenever he started and most young guys would say even now, HELL NO.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Grassley is a blockhead. Someone must like him.

I'm wondering if their are family farms left. Most seem to be huge conglomerates.....hardly kids helping Dad in the fields.



Poor Purl said:


> Grassley is concerned about childhood obesity, so kids need to work in the fields full time. The man is all heart. Too bad it's made of stone - and his brain is made of the same material.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Grassley is a blockhead. Someone must like him.
> 
> I'm wondering if their are family farms left. Most seem to be huge conglomerates.....hardly kids helping Dad in the fields.


I keep hearing about small resurgances of the family farm. I am not sure how much of an impact they have on corporate giants, though.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I keep hearing about small resurgances of the family farm. I am not sure how much of an impact they have on corporate giants, though.


OK, how do you spell that? Resurgence? Geez I hate getting old.

Night, Folks. All this animosity and really sad viewpoint makes me ill. 
Hummm, sounds like welfare. 
Thank God I don't dream while I sleep.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Just wanted to make this easier to find. 
Liberals are good, good, good.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> OK, how do you spell that? Resurgence? Geez I hate getting old.
> 
> Night, Folks. All this animosity and really sad viewpoint makes me ill.
> Hummm, sounds like welfare.
> Thank God I don't dream while I sleep.


My spelling ability has left me too. Why does that happen. I use to be a very good speller, but not any more. I get so frustrated with that little red line popping up everywhere.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> My spelling ability has left me too. Why does that happen. I use to be a very good speller, but not any more. I get so frustrated with that little red line popping up everywhere.


I found the POV thread while I was searching for a thread about that event for the little boy in SF who wanted to be a superhero. 
Good news just doesn't excite people, I guess. I went back to page 4 or 5 and couldn't find it. It was posted over the weekend. LOL, but libs are negative.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Just wanted to make this easier to find.
> Liberals are good, good, good.


I must point out that I am an Aussie and the term Liberal has the opposite meaning down under. It means you are either a member or a supporter of the Liberal Party of Australia. You vote for them in elections. The Liberal Party of Australia is the Conservative Party, definitely not a party of liberal minded and liberal thinkers.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I must point out that I am an Aussie and the term Liberal has the opposite meaning down under. It means you are either a member or a supporter of the Liberal Party of Australia. You vote for them in elections. The Liberal Party of Australia is the Conservative Party, definitely not a party of liberal minded and liberal thinkers.


Which is really odd, isn't it?
How does liberal end up meaning stodgy, stick up your butt person?

Maybe by listening to folks like this guy? This may not be the fare some were thinking of as lighthearted and positive. It did give me a laugh, though.

Tomorrow, The 'Second American Revolution' Begins
SUBMITTED BY Brian Tashman on Monday, 11/18/2013 10:30 am
Larry Klayman is so confident that his second American Revolution will be successful that he has already planned a second Continental Congress to organize a new system of government. Klayman will lead a rally in front of the White House tomorrow, where he predicts that people will converge on and Occupy Washington in the millions and that they wont leave the city until President Obama resigns or the military forcibly removes him from office.

Writing in WorldNetDaily, Klayman predicts that the tyrant evil fool in the White House will retire to his favorite golf course in Tehran after Klaymans Reclaim America Now putsch. Then the event will move to Philadelphia, where delegates of the tea party and other patriots from all 50 states will deliberate, plan for the rest of the revolution and elect a government in waiting, ethically and competently poised to take over the reigns [sic] of a real government responsive to the people.

Klayman, who filed an unsuccessful lawsuit against Rachel Maddow on behalf of radical preacher Bradlee Dean, last week lost a defamation case he brought against the alternative newspaper City Pages.

Take our Reclaim America Coalition, for instance, which is proving to be a big success. For virtually the first time in modern history, we have assembled a host of conservative, libertarian and other public-interest groups and activists to work together for a common goal: to wage a Second American Revolution and peacefully and ultimately remove the tyrant evil fool in the White House, as well as corrupt Republican leaders like Boehner and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. This coalition is unique; for years I had been trying to get these groups and activists to work together, but ego and other cynical calculations got in the way. Now that the country is hanging by a thread, in the words of our great Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, we all realize that if we do not all hang together, we will hang separately under the oppressive and dangerous rule of our government leaders, of which Obama is the snakes head.

Beginning at 10 a.m., Nov. 19, in the park just across from the White House, Lafayette Park (it is befitting of this French general who helped us whip Britain to gain our independence) that We the People, armed with courage and moral rectitude, as well as the divine grace of our Creator, will begin to fight back against government tyranny. We will not only serve notice that we will no longer endure tyranny from the corrupt leaders who have driven the nation to near destruction, by reading our renewed declaration of independence, but we will speak the truth about what needs to be done to right the ship of state for ourselves, our loved ones and to preserve the freedoms our Founding Fathers and their patriotic hordes fought and died for.

Coupled with this will be the masses who are being called to Washington for this non-violent uprising; we will serve testament to the onlooking nation and world that the people are in charge, not the likes of Obama and Boehner. If wise, the Mullah in Chief ultimately will retire to his favorite golf course in Tehran and the half-sober House speaker to his tanning salon in Georgetown.

Then, when our Reclaim America Now Coalition fires the first peaceful shots at Lexington and Concord, we will reconvene some weeks later in Philadelphia, at the City Tavern, which once accommodated the first Continental Congress, the one that gave us the original Declaration of Independence at Constitution Hall. There, delegates of the tea party and other patriots from all 50 states will deliberate, plan for the rest of the revolution and elect a government in waiting, ethically and competently poised to take over the reigns [sic] of a real government responsive to the people.

The Second American Revolution will succeed, because We the People will have the courage to make it so. And, to this end, I command you to join our forces, come to Washington, D.C., Nov. 19, 2013, attend the start of our Second American Revolution and make your voice heard. The time has come for action. The time is over for talk. Let us put both Obama and Democratic and Republican leaders out to pasture, where they can wallow in the manure they have encased us with, and let us reclaim our own destiny free from their political slime, incompetence and tyranny, so help us God!
FILED UNDER

PEOPLE:Larry Klayman
- See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tomorrow-second-american-revolution-begins#sthash.1Gb3Vi3C.dpuf


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Which is really odd, isn't it?
> How does liberal end up meaning stodgy, stick up your butt person?
> 
> Maybe by listening to folks like this guy? This may not be the fare some were thinking of as lighthearted and positive. It did give me a laugh, though.
> ...


The guy being quoted has found some new synonyms for "black man": the tyrant evil fool in the White House and "Mullah in Chief." He must be a poet.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Which is really odd, isn't it?
> How does liberal end up meaning stodgy, stick up your butt person?
> 
> Maybe by listening to folks like this guy? This may not be the fare some were thinking of as lighthearted and positive. It did give me a laugh, though.


Same--this is the guy who, during the government shutdown, demanded that Obama "leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up". It always gave me a chuckle to imagine Obama trying to do all those things at the same time.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Same--this is the guy who, during the government shutdown, demanded that Obama "leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up". It always gave me a chuckle to imagine Obama trying to do all those things at the same time.


I think so. 
Now that you mention it that certainly sounds right. I knew that I remembered his name...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think so.
> Now that you mention it that certainly sounds right. I knew that I remembered his name...


Yep, that's him. This guy is amazing--he sued his own mother for 50K, sued Facebook for 1B, was barred for life from Judge William Keller's courtroom, and was hauled up on charges of touching his own children inappropriately. To say he appears disturbed is probably the understatement of the year.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep, that's him. This guy is amazing--he sued his own mother for 50K, sued Facebook for 1B, was barred for life from Judge William Keller's courtroom, and was hauled up on charges of touching his own children inappropriately. To say he appears disturbed is probably the understatement of the year.


Oh my


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The following is not a joke, nor is it satire.

A Walmart in Ohio is holding a food drive for their own employees:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Something to make your blood boil.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/15/1255802/-Judge-allows-Alabama-man-who-raped-14-year-old-to-avoid-prison-time?detail=email


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Calling Nurse Rachet!!!



jelun2 said:


> Which is really odd, isn't it?
> How does liberal end up meaning stodgy, stick up your butt person?
> 
> Maybe by listening to folks like this guy? This may not be the fare some were thinking of as lighthearted and positive. It did give me a laugh, though.
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Something to make your blood boil.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/15/1255802/-Judge-allows-Alabama-man-who-raped-14-year-old-to-avoid-prison-time?detail=email


So the poor girl has been raped 4 times: 3 times by the defendant and once by the judge.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I found this to be interesting. The author, Paul Buchheit, is a college teacher with formal training in language development and cognitive science. He is the founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, RappingHistory.org, PayUpNow.org), and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at [email protected]

*How Our Public Schools Became a Communist Threat*

By Paul Buchheit

Heartland Institute President Joseph Bast called the public school system a "socialist regime." Michelle Rhee cautions us against commending students for their 'participation' in sports and other activities.

Privatizers believe that any form of working together as a community is anti-American. To them, individual achievement is all that matters. They're now applying their winner-take-all profit motive to our children.

*We're Sliding Backwards, Towards "Separate and Unequal"*

In 1954, the Supreme Court decision in Brown vs. the Board of Education seemed to place our country on the right track. Chief Justice Earl Warren said that education "is a right which must be made available to all on equal terms." Thurgood Marshall insisted on "the right of every American to an equal start in life."

But then we got derailed. We've become a nation of inequality, worse than ever before, worse than during the racist "separate but equal" policy of Plessy vs. Ferguson in 1896. The Civil Rights Project at UCLA shows that "segregated schools are systematically linked to unequal educational opportunities." The Economic Policy Institute tells us that "African American students are more isolated than they were 40 years ago."

The privatizers clamor for vouchers and charters to improve education, but such methods generally don't serve those who need it most. According to a Center on Education Policy report, private schools serve 12 percent of the nation's elementary and secondary students, but only one percent of disabled students. Forty-three percent of public school students are from minority families, compared to 24% of private school students.

Meanwhile, as teachers continue to get blamed, the Census Bureau tells us that an incredible 38 percent of black children live in poverty.

*The Underprivileged Have Been Cheated Out Of Taxes*

A Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) report revealed that total K-12 education cuts for fiscal 2012 were about $12.7 billion.

Almost 90 percent of K-12 funding comes from state and local taxes. But in 2011 and 2012, 155 of the largest U.S. corporations paid only about half of their required state taxes. That comes to $14 billion per year in unpaid taxes, more than the K-12 cuts.

*Untaxed and Unqualified Foundations Want To "Save Our Schools"*

The "starve the beast" mentality allows the privatizers to claim that our "Soviet-style" schools don't work, and that a business approach must be used instead. Philanthropists like Bill Gates and Eli Broad and Michael Bloomberg and Rupert Murdoch and the Walton family, who have little educational experience among them, and who have little accountability to the public, are promoting "education reform" with lots of standardized testing.

But according to the National Research Council, "The tests that are typically used to measure performance in education fall short of providing a complete measure of desired educational outcomes in many ways." Diane Ravitch notes that the test-based Common Core standards were developed by a Gates-funded organization with almost no public input. Desperate states had to adopt the standards to get funding.

Bill Gates may be well-intentioned, but he's a tech guy, and his programming of children into educational objects is disturbing. One of his ideas is to videotape teachers and then analyze their performances. The means of choosing 'analysts' is unclear. Another Gates idea is the Galvanic Skin Response bracelet, which would be attached to a child to measure classroom engagement, and ultimately gauge teacher performance. It all sounds like a drug company's test lab.

As noted by Ravitch and others, philanthropic organizations tend to contribute to "like-minded entities," which are likely to exclude representatives of the neediest community organizations. They are also tax-exempt. And when educational experiments go wrong, they can just leave their mess behind and move on to their next project.

*Getting Past Our "Exceptionalism"*

If we're willing to look beyond our borders for help, we will see the short-sightedness of our educational "reforms." Finland's schools were considered mediocre 30 years ago, but they've achieved a remarkable turnaround by essentially challenging their teachers before they're entrusted with the welfare of the children. Most Finnish teachers are unionized, and they undergo rigorous masters-level training to ensure proficiency in the teaching profession, which is held in the same high esteem as law and medicine. In keeping with this respect for learning, government funding is applied equally to all schools, classes in the arts are available to all students, and tuition is free.

As a result, Finnish students, who are not subjected to standardized testing, finish at or near the top of international comparisons for reading, math, and science.

It's not just Finland with such impressive results. Research at the National Center on Education and the Economy has confirmed that educational systems in Japan, Shanghai, and Ontario, Canada have prospered with an emphasis on the preparation of teachers for the essential task of instructing their young people.

*A Strong Community Leads To Individual Success*

George Lakoff summarizes: "The Public provides freedom...Individualism begins after the roads are built, after individualists have had an education, after medical research has cured their diseases..."

Public education is vital to the promise of equal opportunity for all. But it will only succeed if we work together as a community, and stop listening to the voices of profit and inexperience.

This article was published at NationofChange at: http://www.nationofchange.org/how-our-public-schools-became-communist-threat-1384788749. All rights are reserved.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/18/1256568/-Labor-board-charging-Walmart-with-illegal-threats-and-firings-of-worker-activists?detail=email


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for this information. Most informative.



Poor Purl said:


> I found this to be interesting. The author, Paul Buchheit, is a college teacher with formal training in language development and cognitive science. He is the founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, RappingHistory.org, PayUpNow.org), and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at [email protected]
> 
> *How Our Public Schools Became a Communist Threat*
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hereby pledge not to purchase goods at WalMart.



NJG said:


> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/18/1256568/-Labor-board-charging-Walmart-with-illegal-threats-and-firings-of-worker-activists?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> So the poor girl has been raped 4 times: 3 times by the defendant and once by the judge.


That's pretty much it, plus anyone who has paid any attention to how rapists work know that he will have more victims as time goes by regardless of what stupid policies they put in place. And now he can say, don't say a word I have an in and won't get punished at all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It worked for years and now it comes around again.



jelun2 said:


> That's pretty much it, plus anyone who has paid any attention to how rapists work know that he will have more victims as time goes by regardless of what stupid policies they put in place. And now he can say, don't say a word I have an in and won't get punished at all.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, George Zimmerman is in trouble again. What I don't understand is this woman who is or was his girlfriend. She must be another gun tottin right wingnut. She did say she had a gun too or he said she had a gun. He said she was pregnant and of course he wanted people to believe he was concerned about her, but she said she wasn't pregnant. Did you hear how the police were outside talking to her and then he called 911 so he could tell his side of the story, which of course, was the opposite of hers. I hope this lands him in jail for awhile and I have no pity for her.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well, George Zimmerman is in trouble again. What I don't understand is this woman who is or was his girlfriend. She must be another gun tottin right wingnut. She did say she had a gun too or he said she had a gun. He said she was pregnant and of course he wanted people to believe he was concerned about her, but she said she wasn't pregnant. Did you hear how the police were outside talking to her and then he called 911 so he could tell his side of the story, which of course, was the opposite of hers. I hope this lands him in jail for awhile and I have no pity for her.


At least the judge has said (finally!) NO GUNS!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello Ladies. Catching up on your informative posts. It is hard to decide who should get the prize for the dumbest person or persons in America. I am glad Zimmerman's girlfriend is pressing charges, something his ex should have done. As you said now he will have his 3 guns taken away. I heard his girlfriend's 911 call and then his 911 call and he had kicked the girlfriend out of her own house and then barricaded the door so the police couldn't get in. He is a sociopath and I hope he finally gets sent to prison and maybe his fellow prisoners will think of some way to finally give him "justice" for what he did to Trayvon Martin. He only attacks women and kids and then makes himself out to be the victim. He never goes after men. I am usually not so callous but if something terrible happened to him while he is locked up I would not feel bad for him.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/18/1256568/-Labor-board-charging-Walmart-with-illegal-threats-and-firings-of-worker-activists?detail=email


I honestly thought Bush had gutted the NLRB to the point where it was no longer functioning. I guess it's getting its mojo back.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I honestly thought Bush had gutted the NLRB to the point where it was no longer functioning. I guess it's getting its mojo back.


Just recently there were some appointments, finally. 
LOL, that seems to be my word of the day.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I hereby pledge not to purchase goods at WalMart.


I do, too. That's an easy pledge for me to make, since there is no Walmart in New York City.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

My take on education in the U.S. is that it is just another opportunity for the rich to get richer and actual learning for American children be damned. The conservatives have been systematically been taking over functions that used to be administrated by some level of government be it federal or local and it's all about making the rich richer. They have done it with many military functions going back to Desert Storm where Cheney made millions. Then in many places prisons have been privatized and many of these "online universities" are collecting millions in tax dollars given to our vets to go to college. I discovered a couple years ago that these institutions of higher learning were started by and run by the huge banks and credit card companies so Wall Street has been given yet another gift by the federal government. There is now an effort to go after public education, K - 12 and do the same thing. We have got to turn things around. The country has been damaged enough already and I don't really know what the answer is. I don't believe the banks and Wall Street have the answers. I do like what Finland has done and we have to start preparing teachers properly with advanced degrees, good pay and benefits and the respect they deserve for what is one of the most important jobs there is in any good society. Oops, I forgot my sources. I will attach them shortly. 

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/did-dick-cheney-sink-halliburton-and-will-it-sink-him/page/0/1 - 61k

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/03/627471/private-prisons-spend-45-million-on-lobbying-rake-in-51-billion-for-immigrant-detention-alone/ - 181k -

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112731/moocs-will-online-education-ruin-university-experience - 97k -


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> My take on education in the U.S. is that it is just another opportunity for the rich to get richer and actual learning for American children be damned. The conservatives have been systematically been taking over functions that used to be administrated by some level of government be it federal or local and it's all about making the rich richer. They have done it with many military functions going back to Desert Storm where Cheney made millions. Then in many places prisons have been privatized and many of these "online universities" are collecting millions in tax dollars given to our vets to go to college. I discovered a couple years ago that these institutions of higher learning were started by and run by the huge banks and credit card companies so Wall Street has been given yet another gift by the federal government. There is now an effort to go after public education, K - 12 and do the same thing. We have got to turn things around. The country has been damaged enough already and I don't really know what the answer is. I don't believe the banks and Wall Street have the answers. I do like what Finland has done and we have to start preparing teachers properly with advanced degrees, good pay and benefits and the respect they deserve for what is one of the most important jobs there is in any good society.


We can not allow them to privatize education because we know exactly what will happen. Those schools for the affluent will be awesome and the rest will be crap.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> My take on education in the U.S. is that it is just another opportunity for the rich to get richer and actual learning for American children be damned. The conservatives have been systematically been taking over functions that used to be administrated by some level of government be it federal or local and it's all about making the rich richer. They have done it with many military functions going back to Desert Storm where Cheney made millions. Then in many places prisons have been privatized and many of these "online universities" are collecting millions in tax dollars given to our vets to go to college. I discovered a couple years ago that these institutions of higher learning were started by and run by the huge banks and credit card companies so Wall Street has been given yet another gift by the federal government. There is now an effort to go after public education, K - 12 and do the same thing. We have got to turn things around. The country has been damaged enough already and I don't really know what the answer is. I don't believe the banks and Wall Street have the answers. I do like what Finland has done and we have to start preparing teachers properly with advanced degrees, good pay and benefits and the respect they deserve for what is one of the most important jobs there is in any good society. Oops, I forgot my sources. I will attach them shortly.


Do you really expect things to get better? You're right that we've been damaged enough, but as long as there's money to be made, there's going to be a company to make it and a politician to take his cut.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really expect things to get better? You're right that we've been damaged enough, but as long as there's money to be made, there's going to be a company to make it and a politician to take his cut.


Things will only improve with the revolution; by then what chance to bring it quickly to where it should be?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> We can not allow them to privatize education because we know exactly what will happen. Those schools for the affluent will be awesome and the rest will be crap.


So we are in agreement then. I think that is the plan, Norma. Only the wealthy will have good educations and to hell with the rest of us.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really expect things to get better? You're right that we've been damaged enough, but as long as there's money to be made, there's going to be a company to make it and a politician to take his cut.


Purl, I just find things so disheartening. Our country was not always this way. Even the wealthy knew it was a good thing to have a well educated population in order to have a sound and strong society. Growing up a good education was a must and parents wanted their children to do better than they did. I feel that society has become so used to easy disposal and replacement of items that we apply the same principal to humans. Machines have replaced so many people that we have become redundant. I feel that we have come to the point with many things in society that just because we can do something differently. Maybe, we are ruining the quality of people's lives. Is this just wishful thinking on my part that we need to include ethics in our quest for what we may think are improvements, are really detrimental to us all as humans?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Things will only improve with the revolution; by then what chance to bring it quickly to where it should be?


I do think there will be a revolution but when and what form it will take is the question along with will it bring about the desired end we seek?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Purl, I just find things so disheartening. Our country was not always this way. Even the wealthy knew it was a good thing to have a well educated population in order to have a sound and strong society. Growing up a good education was a must and parents wanted their children to do better than they did. I feel that society has become so used to easy disposal and replacement of items that we apply the same principal to humans. Machines have replaced so many people that we have become redundant. I feel that we have come to the point with many things in society that just because we can do something differently. Maybe, we are ruining the quality of people's lives. Is this just wishful thinking on my part that we need to include ethics in our quest for what we may think are improvements, are really detrimental to us all as humans?


I hope it's not just wishful thinking. When I'm feeling particularly pessimistic, I think this devaluation of people is purposeful: people who are worried about where their next meal is coming from don't have time to organize a revolution. And people who are pacified by bread and circuses (read McDonald's and tv) have no desire for a revolution.

I remember when it wasn't like this, when the U of Cal. was free, as were the various city colleges in NY, and probably many others. It was cheap and easy to get a good education. Now, once you've graduated high school, it's harder and harder to afford to go further.

I'd better stop. I'm about to start crying.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Things will only improve with the revolution; by then what chance to bring it quickly to where it should be?


So you _are_ following in your mom's footsteps, even if you're letting your SILs live. I'm afraid there may not be a revolution - see my earlier message to Cheeky.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

As a retired HS SS teacher, and currently a college instructor I can attest to the fact that our students are not being educated but are being taught only the material which might be on the standardized test given. The teachers stress the test because our performance in the classroom is judged based on how many students pass the test. If the majority of the students don't do well, then the teacher is called in the principal's office and might lose their position. It is absolutely an awful way to teach.

And another problem I have with the US education system is that we are still working with the Renaissance idea of a well-rounded education. This worked in the past but now with technological advancements as they are, more in depth study in the sciences and math are necessary and studying literature so intently has become less important. We are falling behind other nations by sticking to that style of teaching.

Case in point....My daughter went to a major university in NYC on a full scholarship. She was biology/chemistry major with the hope of one day becoming a physician. She applied for and got a position in one of the school research labs as a freshman. When she was a senior, she expected she would be the student-head of the lab. But no. The doctor in charge told her that a freshman from Russia would be the head of the lab!!!! The reason he gave my daughter was that the Russian student knew how to do DNA Sequencing and she did not.

My daughter's reply to her doctor was.."Excuse me for being a product of the American school system!!! I never learned DNA Sequencing in HS, I was bogged down with literature and other liberal arts courses when I was a Science Institute student!!"



Poor Purl said:


> I found this to be interesting. The author, Paul Buchheit, is a college teacher with formal training in language development and cognitive science. He is the founder and developer of social justice and educational websites (UsAgainstGreed.org, RappingHistory.org, PayUpNow.org), and the editor and main author of "American Wars: Illusions and Realities" (Clarity Press). He can be reached at [email protected]
> 
> *How Our Public Schools Became a Communist Threat*
> 
> ...


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Could not agree more!! He is a sociopath and a manipulator. He called the police after his GF called so he could give then his account of what happened. He was already preparing his own defense. Hopefully his GF will continue to press charges and give this guy the justice he did not receive in the Trevon Martin case. I hope she does not get intimidated or even bought off to drop the charges.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello Ladies. Catching up on your informative posts. It is hard to decide who should get the prize for the dumbest person or persons in America. I am glad Zimmerman's girlfriend is pressing charges, something his ex should have done. As you said now he will have his 3 guns taken away. I heard his girlfriend's 911 call and then his 911 call and he had kicked the girlfriend out of her own house and then barricaded the door so the police couldn't get in. He is a sociopath and I hope he finally gets sent to prison and maybe his fellow prisoners will think of some way to finally give him "justice" for what he did to Trayvon Martin. He only attacks women and kids and then makes himself out to be the victim. He never goes after men. I am usually not so callous but if something terrible happened to him while he is locked up I would not feel bad for him.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you really expect things to get better? You're right that we've been damaged enough, but as long as there's money to be made, there's going to be a company to make it and a politician to take his cut.


I think things can only get better if we get rid of the republicans controlling a lot of states.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Could not agree more!! He is a sociopath and a manipulator. He called the police after his GF called so he could give then his account of what happened. He was already preparing his own defense. Hopefully his GF will continue to press charges and give this guy the justice he did not receive in the Trevon Martin case. I hope she does not get intimidated or even bought off to drop the charges.


He said she was pregnant and she said she wasn't. I hope she isn't, that should not multiply!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Could not agree more!! He is a sociopath and a manipulator. He called the police after his GF called so he could give then his account of what happened. He was already preparing his own defense. Hopefully his GF will continue to press charges and give this guy the justice he did not receive in the Trevon Martin case. I hope she does not get intimidated or even bought off to drop the charges.


I don't understand FL laws, or am not aware, does there come a point at which the police can continue with the case even if she backs down?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> He said she was pregnant and she said she wasn't. I hope she isn't, that should multiply!


If she is, I bet she won't be for long.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Curiouser and curiouser. At least they found each other.



NJG said:


> Well, George Zimmerman is in trouble again. What I don't understand is this woman who is or was his girlfriend. She must be another gun tottin right wingnut. She did say she had a gun too or he said she had a gun. He said she was pregnant and of course he wanted people to believe he was concerned about her, but she said she wasn't pregnant. Did you hear how the police were outside talking to her and then he called 911 so he could tell his side of the story, which of course, was the opposite of hers. I hope this lands him in jail for awhile and I have no pity for her.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're getting many TV ads for online K-12 education....free! What a country! They provide teaching by highly qualified teachers who work closely with the parents. I bet they get mucho dollars from the public school system though.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> My take on education in the U.S. is that it is just another opportunity for the rich to get richer and actual learning for American children be damned. The conservatives have been systematically been taking over functions that used to be administrated by some level of government be it federal or local and it's all about making the rich richer. They have done it with many military functions going back to Desert Storm where Cheney made millions. Then in many places prisons have been privatized and many of these "online universities" are collecting millions in tax dollars given to our vets to go to college. I discovered a couple years ago that these institutions of higher learning were started by and run by the huge banks and credit card companies so Wall Street has been given yet another gift by the federal government. There is now an effort to go after public education, K - 12 and do the same thing. We have got to turn things around. The country has been damaged enough already and I don't really know what the answer is. I don't believe the banks and Wall Street have the answers. I do like what Finland has done and we have to start preparing teachers properly with advanced degrees, good pay and benefits and the respect they deserve for what is one of the most important jobs there is in any good society. Oops, I forgot my sources. I will attach them shortly.
> 
> http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/did-dick-cheney-sink-halliburton-and-will-it-sink-him/page/0/1 - 61k
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is that what they meant by 'separate and equal?'



NJG said:


> We can not allow them to privatize education because we know exactly what will happen. Those schools for the affluent will be awesome and the rest will be crap.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Is that why they were buying all those guillotines?



jelun2 said:


> Things will only improve with the revolution; by then what chance to bring it quickly to where it should be?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Purl, I just find things so disheartening. Our country was not always this way. Even the wealthy knew it was a good thing to have a well educated population in order to have a sound and strong society. Growing up a good education was a must and parents wanted their children to do better than they did. I feel that society has become so used to easy disposal and replacement of items that we apply the same principal to humans. Machines have replaced so many people that we have become redundant. I feel that we have come to the point with many things in society that just because we can do something differently. Maybe, we are ruining the quality of people's lives. Is this just wishful thinking on my part that we need to include ethics in our quest for what we may think are improvements, are really detrimental to us all as humans?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Revolutions have a way of getting out of hand. Think Marie Antoinette, the Sun King, and many, many aristocrats in 18th Century France. It takes on a life (or death) of its own.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I do think there will be a revolution but when and what form it will take is the question along with will it bring about the desired end we seek?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

It must be infuriating to be required to teach such specific material because of the almighty test. But I take exception to your downgrading the liberal arts. Though I have a degree in mathematics, now that I'm essentially retired I'm taking literature courses to make up for what I feel is a big hole in my education. In one English course I can learn history, economics, philosophy, philology, psychology, who knows what else. I can't imagine how kids can study ethics with only a science background.

I guess the problem is one of time. Back in the Renaissance, when I was in high school, we had time for science *and* literature (also PE, art, and music). Now it seems there's not enough time in the day, what with Facebook time, tv time, and "music" of the non-school type.

Btw, did your daughter become a doctor?


cynthia627 said:


> As a retired HS SS teacher, and currently a college instructor I can attest to the fact that our students are not being educated but are being taught only the material which might be on the standardized test given. The teachers stress the test because our performance in the classroom is judged based on how many students pass the test. If the majority of the students don't do well, then the teacher is called in the principal's office and might lose their position. It is absolutely an awful way to teach.
> 
> And another problem I have with the US education system is that we are still working with the Renaissance idea of a well-rounded education. This worked in the past but now with technological advancements as they are, more in depth study in the sciences and math are necessary and studying literature so intently has become less important. We are falling behind other nations by sticking to that style of teaching.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO physicians and engineers still need to read and write well.



cynthia627 said:


> As a retired HS SS teacher, and currently a college instructor I can attest to the fact that our students are not being educated but are being taught only the material which might be on the standardized test given. The teachers stress the test because our performance in the classroom is judged based on how many students pass the test. If the majority of the students don't do well, then the teacher is called in the principal's office and might lose their position. It is absolutely an awful way to teach.
> 
> And another problem I have with the US education system is that we are still working with the Renaissance idea of a well-rounded education. This worked in the past but now with technological advancements as they are, more in depth study in the sciences and math are necessary and studying literature so intently has become less important. We are falling behind other nations by sticking to that style of teaching.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I think things can only get better if we get rid of the republicans controlling a lot of states.


That goes without saying. Now, how do we get rid of them?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Purl. We agree about education.



Poor Purl said:


> It must be infuriating to be required to teach such specific material because of the almighty test. But I take exception to your downgrading the liberal arts. Though I have a degree in mathematics, now that I'm essentially retired I'm taking literature courses to make up for what I feel is a big hole in my education. In one English course I can learn history, economics, philosophy, philology, psychology, who knows what else. I can't imagine how kids can study ethics with only a science background.
> 
> I guess the problem is one of time. Back in the Renaissance, when I was in high school, we had time for science *and* literature (also PE, art, and music). Now it seems there's not enough time in the day, what with Facebook time, tv time, and "music" of the non-school type.
> 
> Btw, did your daughter become a doctor?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't tempt me.



Poor Purl said:


> That goes without saying. Now, how do we get rid of them?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> We're getting many TV ads for online K-12 education....free! What a country! They provide teaching by highly qualified teachers who work closely with the parents. I bet they get mucho dollars from the public school system though.


Of course they do. And interestingly (at least to me), the schools don't expect the teachers to stick around for more than a couple of years. So there will never be seasoned teachers who know how to deal with the full range of educational and behavioral problems, because they're all encouraged to go out and get corporate jobs.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, you are the wise one. You see behind the curtain.



Poor Purl said:


> Of course they do. And interestingly (at least to me), the schools don't expect the teachers to stick around for more than a couple of years. So there will never be seasoned teachers who know how to deal with the full range of educational and behavioral problems, because they're all encouraged to go out and get corporate jobs.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Yes my daughter is a practicing Gastroenterologist. I am very proud of her!!

I have nothing against liberal arts study, remember I am a social studies teacher, and I teach college political science and history. So I am versed in liberal arts!! Not so much in math, technology or the sciences and I find that lacking in myself.

Today since the world is changing so much with technology advancing at such a furious pace, I feel it is more important to emphasize more science and math classes, and somewhat less requirements, at the college level especially, in liberal arts. We need to compete with India, China & Russia who are far surpassing us in technology, science, and math.



Poor Purl said:


> It must be infuriating to be required to teach such specific material because of the almighty test. But I take exception to your downgrading the liberal arts. Though I have a degree in mathematics, now that I'm essentially retired I'm taking literature courses to make up for what I feel is a big hole in my education. In one English course I can learn history, economics, philosophy, philology, psychology, who knows what else. I can't imagine how kids can study ethics with only a science background.
> 
> I guess the problem is one of time. Back in the Renaissance, when I was in high school, we had time for science *and* literature (also PE, art, and music). Now it seems there's not enough time in the day, what with Facebook time, tv time, and "music" of the non-school type.
> 
> Btw, did your daughter become a doctor?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Revolutions have a way of getting out of hand. Think Marie Antoinette, the Sun King, and many, many aristocrats in 18th Century France. It takes on a life (or death) of its own.


The French they are a funny race. Look at who replaced the aristocracy: Robespierre and his comically named Committee of Public Safety. We didn't have a Reign of Terror after our Revolution - or did we, but it was decided not to teach that in schools?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bravo Purl. We agree about education.


Have you found anything we disagree about? I haven't. It's spooky.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I don't understand FL laws, or am not aware, does there come a point at which the police can continue with the case even if she backs down?


They can't do anything if she doesn't press charges. It's her word against his and if he is the only one talking, well you know the rest. You couldn't pay me to live in Florida or Texas.
I wonder what kind of nut she is to get involved with him in the first place and let's hope she isn't pregnant.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Good for her. You should be proud.

There's some logic to what you say. I wonder how it's done in Finland.


cynthia627 said:


> Yes my daughter is a practicing Gastroenterologist. I am very proud of her!!
> 
> I have nothing against liberal arts study, remember I am a social studies teacher, and I teach college political science and history. So I am versed in liberal arts!! Not so much in math, technology or the sciences and I find that lacking in myself.
> 
> Today since the world is changing so much with technology advancing at such a furious pace, I feel it is more important to emphasize more science and math classes, and somewhat less requirements, at the college level especially, in liberal arts. We need to compete with India, China & Russia who are far surpassing us in technology, science, and math.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They can't do anything if she doesn't press charges. It's her word against his and if he is the only one talking, well you know the rest. You couldn't pay me to live in Florida or Texas.
> I wonder what kind of nut she is to get involved with him in the first place and let's hope she isn't pregnant.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Pity I couldn't get the picture in here, too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you found anything we disagree about? I haven't. It's spooky.


Are you and damemary the same person Purl? I love a good conspiracy.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO physicians and engineers still need to read and write well.


Very true. I am not saying no reading and writing!! Just an education more focused on technology with less emphasis on the arts. It is the wave of the future and if we want to remain competitive in this fast-passed world, then we have to change with the times.

The US ranks 17th in the developed world for education. That says we are doing something wrong.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Are you and damemary the same person Purl? I love a good conspiracy.


One of the wingnuts claimed, first, that I was Huckleberry, then that I was Rocky (someone I've never encountered). We can spread the rumor that I'm damemary, but it will be hard to explain how we can both be on at the same time, and how I can talk while she drinks a glass of water.

And now the witching hour has come (at least in my corner of the world), so I will say goodnight until tomorrow. Pleasant dreams to you all.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Got this story from Daily Kos about how this Marine was treated.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/19/1256701/-Oorah-Marine-waitress-making-hefty-donation-to-Wounded-Warriors?detail=email#


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

While we are all distracted by a 50 year old killing in Hate City...

Seventeen-year-old shot in the head while in police custody

By Scott Kaufman
Friday, November 22, 2013 13:17 EST

A teenager in Durham, North Carolina police custody died earlier this week from a gunshot wound to the head.

According to the teens family, Sylvia Fernandez called the police early Tuesday morning to report that her son, Jesus Huerta, had run away to use drugs. An officer arrived at the Fernandez home approximately 10 minutes later to inform the family that Huerta had been picked up two blocks away from the home.

Because Huerta had an outstanding warrant for second-degree trespassing, the officer told Fernandez that they would have to take him to the police station.

According to police, when the officer transporting Huerta arrived at the station, he heard a loud noise and jumped from the vehicle, which continued to travel until it ran into a van. The officer then inspected the vehicle and, 911 tapes reveal, discovered Huerta with a gunshot wound to his head.
At 6 a.m. that same morning, police returned to the Fernandez residence to inform the family of Huertas death.

His sister, Evelin Huerta, told WRAL that the police have refused to let the family see the body.

We dont have any answers. We want to make sure its him because we still have that thought, the possibility that its not him, that it was a mistake.

His brother, Raziel Huerta, also has questions. We dont know if he had a gun. We dont know where the gun came from. Why wasnt he searched? We dont know when we are going to get the body. What was the cause of his death?

The State Bureau of Investigation is now in charge of the case, but refused to comment until after an autopsy definitively identifies the cause of death.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/22/seventeen-year-old-shot-in-the-head-while-in-police-custody/


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Darrell Issa, Chairman of the Oversight Committee has taken his show on the road. He's going to Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia to conduct Congressional Hearings on the ACA. These are states which have not extended the federal exchanges to their citizens. Issa has hand-picked 5 people to speak at each hearing and has instructed that any other people in attendance at these hearings will be escorted out if they try to address the committee. Gee, do you think he hates the president? I'm sorry to say he represents a part of my state of California.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Darrell Issa, Chairman of the Oversight Committee has taken his show on the road. He's going to Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia to conduct Congressional Hearings on the ACA. These are states which have not extended the federal exchanges to their citizens. Issa has hand-picked 5 people to speak at each hearing and has instructed that any other people in attendance at these hearings will be escorted out if they try to address the committee. Gee, do you think he hates the president? I'm sorry to say he represents a part of my state of California.


Why would anyone go if they cannot address the committee?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Why would anyone go if they cannot address the committee?


The ones that will get to speak are the ones that have a complaint


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> The ones that will get to speak are the ones that have a complaint


Well sure, but who wants to go hear that. 
LOL, it would be like spending a couple of hours in a room with KGP, LL, and LTL.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well sure, but who wants to go hear that.
> LOL, it would be like spending a couple of hours in a room with KGP, LL, and LTL.


But that is all Issa wants to hear. He wants to keep this stirred up as much as possible to affect the 2014 elections.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> But that is all Issa wants to hear. He wants to keep this stirred up as much as possible to affect the 2014 elections.


Fits right in there with the very expensive and ineffectual attempts to repeal, I guess.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Darrell Issa, Chairman of the Oversight Committee has taken his show on the road. He's going to Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, and Georgia to conduct Congressional Hearings on the ACA. These are states which have not extended the federal exchanges to their citizens. Issa has hand-picked 5 people to speak at each hearing and has instructed that any other people in attendance at these hearings will be escorted out if they try to address the committee. Gee, do you think he hates the president? I'm sorry to say he represents a part of my state of California.


My sis lives in Orange County and it has turned her into a right-wing Christian fundamentalist...Issa from there or is it San Diego? Living there would be a nightmare for most of us.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MindyT said:


> My sis lives in Orange County and it has turned her into a right-wing Christian fundamentalist...Issa from there or is it San Diego? Living there would be a nightmare for most of us.


I think Issa represents part of Orange County and other areas between LA and San Diego. I live in Northern CA---totally different.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think Issa represents part of Orange County and other areas between LA and San Diego. I live in Northern CA---totally different.


 Me too, northern Ca.,Sonoma County


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shouldn't they be different countries....at least different states?



MindyT said:


> Me too, northern Ca.,Sonoma County


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Shouldn't they be different countries....at least different states?


LOL, now now. If we are going to have secessions can't we stick to the south?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're the reasonable one. Okay.



jelun2 said:


> LOL, now now. If we are going to have secessions can't we stick to the south?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> You're the reasonable one. Okay.


LOL, you are about the only one who thinks so. Thanks tho.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This story tickles me to death, maybe the arrogance of the Koch Brothers will finally do them in.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/appeals-court-declines-to-stop-secret-probe-into-campaign-fundraising-spending-b99148909z1-233086001.html

Appeals court won't stop secret probe into campaign fundraising, spending
By Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel Nov. 22, 2013

Madison  The Wisconsin Court of Appeals declined late Friday to temporarily halt a secret investigation of campaign fundraising and spending during Wisconsin's recent recall elections.

The court also immediately denied the requests of three unnamed petitioners to have the judge in the case disqualified because of his status as a reserve judge and to prohibit the judge and special prosecutor in the case from using a post office box instead of local court clerks. But the court granted the anonymous plaintiffs' request to file a sealed petition and asked for more information before it decides on several more claims by the people caught up in the probe.

The court's order also made clear for the first time what the unnamed petitioners are arguing. In a half-dozen claims in their sealed filings, the plaintiffs are arguing that the judge and special prosecutor in the case don't have the authority to carry out the secret probe that is ranging across five counties in southern Wisconsin.

The unsigned order was issued by three judges on the District 4 Court of Appeals: Brian Blanchard, Paul Lundsten and JoAnne Kloppenburg.

"Given our outright denial of two of the petitioners' six claims, and the uncertain factual basis for the remaining four claims, we are not persuaded that a stay is warranted," the order reads.

Blanchard is a former Democratic district attorney in Dane County, and Kloppenburg is a former state Department of Justice attorney who lost a Supreme Court race in 2011 to Justice David Prosser.

Sources have said the investigation  first disclosed by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel  is looking at whether such conservative groups as the Wisconsin Club for Growth coordinated illegally with GOP candidates or others during the 2011 and 2012 recall races. In the most expensive contest, Gov. Scott Walker beat back an attempt by Democrats to remove him from office last year.

Online court records indicate the appeals court filings stem from John Doe investigations in Milwaukee, Dane, Dodge, Columbia and Iowa counties.

What is not clear is why the secret investigation appears to be looking only at conservative groups and not labor unions or others who backed Democrats in the recall elections. There have been no signs so far that the probe has looked at liberal groups, and that has prompted some on the right to say it's a partisan witch hunt.

Madison attorney Dean Strang filed the five motions on behalf of the anonymous trio last week, according to online court records. The filings name special prosecutor Francis Schmitz and initially named retired Kenosha County Circuit Judge Barbara Kluka, who was originally in charge of the investigation.

The filings were amended this week to reflect that the investigation is now being overseen by retired Appeals Court Judge Gregory Peterson. Kluka has not said why she recused herself.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Must be my day for articles out of Wisconsin. 
The positive for those of us who think that this tax exemption should go away is that the suit was against the IRS and Dept. of the Treasury not specific churches. The chances are better, I think, that the ruling will not be appealed. 
This "the new civil rights movement" site is pretty interesting if you want to take a peek.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/breaking-federal-district-court-declares-a-religious-income-tax-exemption-unconstitutional/politics/2013/11/22/79158#.UpEstJtilbs

A federal district court judge has declared unconstitutional a portion of U.S. law that allows a minister of the gospel to not pay income tax on a specific portion of their compensation.

U.S. District Court Judge Barbara B. Crabb of the Western District of Wisconsin ruled that the so-called parish exemption, which allows religious ministers to avoid paying taxes on the value of their housing granted to them by their religious employers, violates the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution and must be discontinued.

The law, 26 U.S. C. § 107(2), has been on the books since 1954.

The tax exemption was estimated to cost U.S. taxpayers $2.3 billion from 2002-2007 alone, likely more in the years since.

Heralding it as a major federal court victory, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which brought the lawsuit along with their co-presidents, Annie Laurie Gaylor and Dan Barker, offered an explanation of yesterdays ruling.

Ministers may, for instance, use the untaxed income to purchase a home, and, in a practice known as double dipping, may then deduct interest paid on the mortgage and property taxes.

The Courts decision does not evince hostility to religion  nor should it even seem controversial, commented Richard L. Bolton, FFRFs attorney in the case. The Court has simply recognized the reality that a tax free housing allowance available only to ministers is a significant benefit from the government unconstitutionally provided on the basis of religion.

Crabb wrote: Some might view a rule against preferential treatment as exhibiting hostility toward religion, but equality should never be mistaken for hostility. It is important to remember that the establishment clause protects the religious and nonreligious alike.

The 1954 bills sponsor, Rep. Peter Mack, argued ministers should be rewarded for carrying on such a courageous fight against this [godless and anti-religious world movement].

I agree with plaintiffs that §107(2) does not have a secular purpose or effect, wrote Crabb, adding that a reasonable observer would view it as an endorsement of religion.

Crabb wrote that the exemption provides a benefit to religious persons and no one else, even though doing so is not necessary to alleviate a special burden on religious exercise.

All taxpayers are burdened by taxes, Crabb noted. Defendants do not identify any reason why a requirement on ministers to pay taxes on a housing allowance is more burdensome for them than for the many millions of others who must pay taxes on income used for housing expenses.

One study has estimated that in total, combined religious tax exemptions cost American taxpayers $71 billion each year.

The Foundation sued Jacob Lew, Secretary of the Treasury Department, and Acting Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, Daniel Werfel.

The ruling, which you can read in full, below, notes:

It is DECLARED that 26 U.S.C. § 107(2) violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Defendants [the government] are ENJOINED from enforcing § 107(2). The injunction shall take effect at the conclusion of any appeals filed by defendants or the expiration of defendants deadline for filing an appeal, whichever is later.

In other words, the ruling right now is on hold until the appeals process is complete.

It is not known if the government will appeal, but expect a full-throated attack from the religious right demanding the law be re-written to comply with the Constitution.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Woo hoo, I, for kne, think the religious exemption has needed to go for decades. That would be great.

And, yes, from time to time it does come up to split California into two states. Sounds ok by me as long as the divide is somewhere below Yosemite area. They will get Hollywood and the defense industry, but we will have sane people
(Some) and water and the redwoods and Silicon Valley...I guess that's good.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Woo hoo, I, for kne, think the religious exemption has needed to go for decades. That would be great.
> 
> And, yes, from time to time it does come up to split California into two states. Sounds ok by me as long as the divide is somewhere below Yosemite area. They will get Hollywood and the defense industry, but we will have sane people
> (Some) and water and the redwoods and Silicon Valley...I guess that's good.


Sounds like a pretty fair split. I know that secession isn't allowed. I wonder if there is a way for regions to separate. 
I also believe that we would do well to develop some regional form of gov't along the lines of a province sized area.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Amen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting. Keep us up to date on where this goes. Thanks.



jelun2 said:


> This story tickles me to death, maybe the arrogance of the Koch Brothers will finally do them in.
> 
> http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/appeals-court-declines-to-stop-secret-probe-into-campaign-fundraising-spending-b99148909z1-233086001.html
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Makes sense to me.



jelun2 said:


> Must be my day for articles out of Wisconsin.
> The positive for those of us who think that this tax exemption should go away is that the suit was against the IRS and Dept. of the Treasury not specific churches. The chances are better, I think, that the ruling will not be appealed.
> This "the new civil rights movement" site is pretty interesting if you want to take a peek.
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

For those of you who really think that Republicans and Democrats are exactly alike. Please, read this and remind yourselves of why we are lucky to have a Democrat majority is the Senate.

Waking Times  Alisha Mims: House Passess Bill to Eliminate Fracking Regulations
NOV 23
Posted by Wes Annac

On Wednesday, the House passed a bill that will block the Department of the Interior (DOI) from regulating fracking in states that already have regulations in place. The bill, H.R. 2728, passed the House in a 235  187 vote. Twelve Democrats voted in favor of the legislation and two Republicans voted against it.

Hydraulic fracturing has been safely and effectively regulated by states for decades, said Rep. Doc Hastings (R-WA), according to The Hill. So the Obama administrations proposed regulations are unnecessary.

On Tuesday, Hastings added a last-minute amendment to another piece of oil and gas industry-friendly legislation that was also passed by the House on Wednesday. His amendment to the Federal Lands Jobs and Energy Security Act cuts government funding for renewable energy projects by 50 percent.

No one can show where states are dropping the ball [on fracking regulations], said Rep. Doug Lamborn (R-CO), the representative who introduced the Federal Lands Jobs and Energy Security Act.

In fact, many Americans have heard of instances across the country in which residents have been adversely affected by the fracking process. Just last week, a group of Oklahoma residents filed a class action lawsuitagainst nearly 50 companies for contaminating their drinking water and land.

Residents of Bokoshe, Oklahoma discovered that fracking wastewater from a fracking operation in Arkansas was being trucked to a coal ash dump site near their town. The toxic waste dumped at the site contaminated residents drinking water and has caused adverse health effects including cancer, respiratory conditions, and skin irritations in residents living near the dump site.

Also last week a Texas man was sued for defamation by a Ft. Worth fracking company that contaminated his drinking water supply with benzene and methane. Steve Lipsky, a resident of Weatherford, Texas, sued Range Resources in 2011 after discovering a gas build-up inside his well and finding that the water coming from his well was highly-flammable.

The conservative judge presiding over Lipskys lawsuit against Range Resources dismissed Lipskys claims, but allowed the fracking company that polluted Lipskys and his neighbors water supplies to continue with a counter-suit. Lipsky now faces a $3 million defamation lawsuit by Range Resources for posting a video on YouTube of his well water catching on fire.

Across the country, individuals have faced contamination of their water supplies and land, and have experienced adverse health effects from fracking operations. Some families have even been forced to settle in court with fracking companies that contaminated their water supplies in order to be able to afford to relocate or truck in fresh drinking water for their families. Many of these families have been forced to agree to a gag order as part of their settlements.

In addition to eliminating federal fracking regulations, the House on Wednesday gave the oil and gas industries another gift. Representatives passed the Federal Lands Jobs and Energy Security Act, which will make it easier for oil and gas companies to drill on public lands, cut funding for renewable energy projects in half, impose a $5,000 fee on any individual who wishes to oppose a drilling project, and require the Department of the Interior to begin leasing for the development of oil shale, one of the dirtiest fuels on earth.

About the Author
Alisha is a writer and researcher with Ring of Fire. Follow her on Twitter @childoftheearth.

This article was originally published on www.ringoffireradio.com

http://aquariusparadigm.com/2013/11/23/waking-times-alisha-mims-house-passess-bill-to-eliminate-fracking-regulations/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> For those of you who really think that Republicans and Democrats are exactly alike. Please, read this and remind yourselves of why we are lucky to have a Democrat majority is the Senate.
> 
> Waking Times  Alisha Mims: House Passess Bill to Eliminate Fracking Regulations
> NOV 23
> ...


For those of you who claim that some of the messages here are "bullying," what you have before you is the clearest instance of bullying: billion-dollar industries destroying the air and water of individuals, paying off congressmen to soften regulations, and then suing the injured parties because they want their bad acts kept secret.

It's also an instance of the most prevalent kind of socialism in this country, in which a company can dump its filth on the public and force the government to clean it up. Keep the profits but make taxpayers pay the costs.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> For those of you who claim that some of the messages here are "bullying," what you have before you is the clearest instance of bullying: billion-dollar industries destroying the air and water of individuals, paying off congressmen to soften regulations, and then suing the injured parties because they want their bad acts kept secret.
> 
> It's also an instance of the most prevalent kind of socialism in this country, in which a company can dump its filth on the public and force the government to clean it up. Keep the profits but make taxpayers pay the costs.


Thanks for adding that, Poor Purl. The supporters of the ugly rich don't realize all of the ways that we subsidize them.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This is just one of so many reasons that we must never let the republicans have complete control of our country. They would destroy it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Love it, jelun!



jelun2 said:


> .


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Love it, jelun!


You know President Obama is finally earning his peace prize and those heads named for VP Cheney want to screw it up. 
WTH


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm not as sanguine as you seem to be. It will be a while before we know whether Iran keeps its word. There's been very little reason to trust the ayatollahs thus far. (Or will it choose instead to keep the pledge it made to destroy Israel?)


jelun2 said:


> You know President Obama is finally earning his peace prize and those heads named for VP Cheney want to screw it up.
> WTH


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not as sanguine as you seem to be. It will be a while before we know whether Iran keeps its word. There's been very little reason to trust the ayatollahs thus far. (Or will it choose instead to keep the pledge it made to destroy Israel?)


It will take a while, but it is a place to start. It has to start somewhere.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> It will take a while, but it is a place to start. It has to start somewhere.


Certainly it has to start. I'm just not ready to do the happy dance.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Certainly it has to start. I'm just not ready to do the happy dance.


No, I agree, it is a little early for that.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> For those of you who claim that some of the messages here are "bullying," what you have before you is the clearest instance of bullying: billion-dollar industries destroying the air and water of individuals, paying off congressmen to soften regulations, and then suing the injured parties because they want their bad acts kept secret.
> 
> It's also an instance of the most prevalent kind of socialism in this country, in which a company can dump its filth on the public and force the government to clean it up. Keep the profits but make taxpayers pay the costs.


Right on, "corporate welfare" at its worst. Just saw a movie, " The East" about this very subject. Not a great movie, but the message is strong. I can't even imagine how it got made. It's on Netflix.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not as sanguine as you seem to be. It will be a while before we know whether Iran keeps its word. There's been very little reason to trust the ayatollahs thus far. (Or will it choose instead to keep the pledge it made to destroy Israel?)


That fact is that considering the US history with Iran and the region they have absolutely no reason to trust the US.

Will Israel decide to act on Israel's threats?

There being little or no reason to trust cannot stop us from trying, can it? 
It seems to me that once again the Obama administration is in a no win situation because nobody before took this on. 
The alternative to diplomacy is to allow the development of nuclear weapons in Iran or to go to war. 
I am not interested in either of those options.

Frankly, if Israel doesn't elect someone with a more diplomatic approach they will put everyone but their staunchest allies (meaning us) in the enemy box.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

A suggestion to pet lovers everywhere from a pet lover who doesn't have any right now. 

Febreeze is not a substitute for cleaning. 
Odors are still there just masked. 
LOL, I had to say that in a safe place.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That fact is that considering the US history with Iran and the region they have absolutely no reason to trust the US.
> 
> Will Israel decide to act on Israel's threats?
> 
> ...


The U.S. really did a number on Iran back in the fifties and have never made the slightest move toward fixing relations, except when Reagan sold them arms even though they had taken how-many? American hostage.

Israel has had some of the strangest leaders you could imagine. It's time for Netanyahu to go, but I think he likes the job too much. The political structure is too complicated for anyone to do much to change things. And they could stop building those settlements on what should be Arab land, but that, too, is hard to change.

All that said, whenever there appears to be some movement toward peace, some Islamic faction, or country, makes another threat toward the existence of Israel, and the country goes back into defense mode. What concerns me now is the statement by the Ayatollah Khamenei (the Supreme Leader) that Israel is a "rabid dog." Muhammad ordered the killing of rabid dogs, so we can assume that's what the ayatollah has in mind.

If Islam had a prohibition against lying to non-Muslim, Iran could be expected to keep its side of the agreement. But there is no such prohibition and therefore there's no such expectation. Like so many other Jews, I have cousins and nieces and nephews and friends living in Israel, so though I don't consider myself a Zionist, I would hate to see something happen to them. And I would especially hate that it happened with the help of my own country.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OOOOOH. I like that. Tea Baggers at my Thanksgiving Dinner when we go out? There's a thought.

quote=jelun2].[/quote]


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm rooting for him. He could use a lift.



jelun2 said:


> You know President Obama is finally earning his peace prize and those heads named for VP Cheney want to screw it up.
> WTH


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's better to try than not. We can always put sanctions back in place and hit them hard.



Poor Purl said:


> I'm not as sanguine as you seem to be. It will be a while before we know whether Iran keeps its word. There's been very little reason to trust the ayatollahs thus far. (Or will it choose instead to keep the pledge it made to destroy Israel?)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Happy dance later if they earn it. Slap on the head if they don't.



Poor Purl said:


> Certainly it has to start. I'm just not ready to do the happy dance.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That fact is that considering the US history with Iran and the region they have absolutely no reason to trust the US.
> 
> Will Israel decide to act on Israel's threats?
> 
> ...


Even the USA will be fragmented. Israel seems just as militant as the Arab states.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The U.S. really did a number on Iran back in the fifties and have never made the slightest move toward fixing relations, except when Reagan sold them arms even though they had taken how-many? American hostage.
> 
> Israel has had some of the strangest leaders you could imagine. It's time for Netanyahu to go, but I think he likes the job too much. The political structure is too complicated for anyone to do much to change things. And they could stop building those settlements on what should be Arab land, but that, too, is hard to change.
> 
> ...


I am not so sure that prohibitions against lying matter a damn. 
I don't think any of us what anyone to die before they are done living, it continues without Iran overtly involved, however. 
Were those strikes into Syria by Israel victim free? 
Power wants more power, it sux.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Even the USA will be fragmented. Israel seems just as militant as the Arab states.


As are many Americans, they must own stock in that Military Industrial Complex and the security firms, basically the same thing, right?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree.



jelun2 said:


> As are many Americans, they must own stock in that Military Industrial Complex and the security firms, basically the same thing, right?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am not so sure that prohibitions against lying matter a damn.
> I don't think any of us what anyone to die before they are done living, it continues without Iran overtly involved, however.
> Were those strikes into Syria by Israel victim free?
> Power wants more power, it sux.


Don't mistake this as my objection to Israel doing what their leadership determines they need to do. 
It just seems that at some points their best interests and ours do not meld, gel, or blend.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems to me that best interest is at war with inclination.



jelun2 said:


> Don't mistake this as my objection to Israel doing what their leadership determines they need to do.
> It just seems that at some points their best interests and ours do not meld, gel, or blend.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Just checking in to say that I hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving and/or Thursday. 
I am thankful that I have stayed away from the Obamacare threads for at least 2 days. 
I am on the hunt for an intriguing post. 
Enjoy!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Just checking in to say that I hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving and/or Thursday.
> I am thankful that I have stayed away from the Obamacare threads for at least 2 days.
> I am on the hunt for an intriguing post.
> Enjoy!


Thank you, mine has been restful, and it's not over. My son has offered to cook for us, so we probably won't eat until 8 or so.

If you have an hour to spare, may I recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFeoS41xe7w#t=50 ?

It's a debate at the Cambridge Union in 1965 - between James Baldwin and William F. Buckley - on whether the American dream has been achieved "at the expense of the American *****." Interesting both in view of the speakers (with Buckley at the height of his superciliousness) and the fact that it occurred nearly 50 years ago.

You can knit while you watch.

I hope your day has been pleasant.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, mine has been restful, and it's not over. My son has offered to cook for us, so we probably won't eat until 8 or so.
> 
> If you have an hour to spare, may I recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFeoS41xe7w#t=50 ?
> 
> ...


It has indeed, better than expected. 
Thanks for the T'Day gift.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let us know if you find something good. I'll follow you anywhere.



jelun2 said:


> Just checking in to say that I hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving and/or Thursday.
> I am thankful that I have stayed away from the Obamacare threads for at least 2 days.
> I am on the hunt for an intriguing post.
> Enjoy!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Hello, friends! Glad to be back. Ended up in hospital in the middle of September and am just now getting back into the swing of things. I can see that this thread has been trotting right along at a great clip, and I cannot wait to scroll back through and catch up on all that's transpired. One funny event while I was in ICU; I asked the nurses to keep MSNBC on the TV 24/7 for it helped me to get out of my own head, especially during the night. One night I woke up to see a man reading Green Eggs and Ham. I am NOT a Seuss fan, and I thought this not only depressing, but very peculiar. I assumed I was hallucinating again and pushed the red button for the nurse. She reassured me that I was actually seeing Ted Cruz on the Senate floor reading Seuss in a filibuster. I did not believe her... still thought I was hallucinating. Only the head nurse the next morning was able to convince me that I had seen this travesty on TV and not in my own mind. It was certainly more unbelievable than the other hallucinations I had been having, and it still makes me feel funny to recall it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Hello, friends! Glad to be back. Ended up in hospital in the middle of September and am just now getting back into the swing of things. I can see that this thread has been trotting right along at a great clip, and I cannot wait to scroll back through and catch up on all that's transpired. One funny event while I was in ICU; I asked the nurses to keep MSNBC on the TV 24/7 for it helped me to get out of my own head, especially during the night. One night I woke up to see a man reading Green Eggs and Ham. I am NOT a Seuss fan, and I thought this not only depressing, but very peculiar. I assumed I was hallucinating again and pushed the red button for the nurse. She reassured me that I was actually seeing Ted Cruz on the Senate floor reading Seuss in a filibuster. I did not believe her... still thought I was hallucinating. Only the head nurse the next morning was able to convince me that I had seen this travesty on TV and not in my own mind. It was certainly more unbelievable than the other hallucinations I had been having, and it still makes me feel funny to recall it.


Glad you are feeling better, but what an awful way to wake up. Kind of silly to read a book about "try something new, you might like it," for someone who isn't willing to try something new. Wonder if he realized how stupid that was.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Midwegian, We missed you. Sounds like a nightmare waking to a Cruz filibuster. Sorry he scared you. Welcome home. Take care.



midwegian said:


> Hello, friends! Glad to be back. Ended up in hospital in the middle of September and am just now getting back into the swing of things. I can see that this thread has been trotting right along at a great clip, and I cannot wait to scroll back through and catch up on all that's transpired. One funny event while I was in ICU; I asked the nurses to keep MSNBC on the TV 24/7 for it helped me to get out of my own head, especially during the night. One night I woke up to see a man reading Green Eggs and Ham. I am NOT a Seuss fan, and I thought this not only depressing, but very peculiar. I assumed I was hallucinating again and pushed the red button for the nurse. She reassured me that I was actually seeing Ted Cruz on the Senate floor reading Seuss in a filibuster. I did not believe her... still thought I was hallucinating. Only the head nurse the next morning was able to convince me that I had seen this travesty on TV and not in my own mind. It was certainly more unbelievable than the other hallucinations I had been having, and it still makes me feel funny to recall it.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Cruz is on borrowed time in the public eye. Love your icon of the Kochs with Cruz!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> Dear Midwegian, We missed you. Sounds like a nightmare waking to a Cruz filibuster. Sorry he scared you. Welcome home. Take care.


I will say Cruz and Seuss were more alarming than the parade of little elfs that took my vitals and gave me meds when I first arrived. The elfs knew what they were doing ... Cruz does not. Glad to be in touch again and hope all on the thread had a very happy Thanksgiving!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Cruz is on borrowed time in the public eye. Love your icon of the Kochs with Cruz!


Hi there, mid... jelun

I think that Cruz felt the poke of that fork around about October 15th. The rest is just the dance of the empty suit. 
"They" say that he is smart, though. He may be a comeback kid.

I came across an interesting piece, I have to get it up on this browser....


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is the first story I came across today, while I was reading it I kept thinking that I had seen it before... the second link will make apparent the reason for that.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/regulator/faq/

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/regulator/faq/

I do really enjoy alternet, I keep forgetting to use it often enough to satisfy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cruz is no elf. Can't fool you. Righties have me worried. They're spending so much I'm afraid someone will believe them. Please tell me I'm hallucinating now.



midwegian said:


> I will say Cruz and Seuss were more alarming than the parade of little elfs that took my vitals and gave me meds when I first arrived. The elfs knew what they were doing ... Cruz does not. Glad to be in touch again and hope all on the thread had a very happy Thanksgiving!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

midwegian said:


> I will say Cruz and Seuss were more alarming than the parade of little elfs that took my vitals and gave me meds when I first arrived. The elfs knew what they were doing ... Cruz does not. Glad to be in touch again and hope all on the thread had a very happy Thanksgiving!


Welcome back, midwegian!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Cruz is no elf. Can't fool you. Righties have me worried. They're spending so much I'm afraid someone will believe them. Please tell me I'm hallucinating now.


Not to worry, dame. Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't vote for him no matter how much they spend. Texas seems to be breeding the Macadamian race like rabbits!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to worry, dame. Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't vote for him no matter how much they spend. Texas seems to be breeding the Macadamian race like rabbits!


Unfortunately, money and votes are inextricably entwined in America. And now the USSC is discussing if corporations have religious rights. Can we imagine a near future where enormous sums will not be spent?


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Oh, yes.... now Scott Walker is being bruited about as a 2016 Presidential Candidate.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Oh, yes.... now Scott Walker is being bruited about as a 2016 Presidential Candidate.


I don't think we've met, but you've just gained a follower by bringing up some of the most awful possibilities I can imagine. Though I admit that Walker being "bruited about" has a nice ring. Especially since Wikipedia says "Bruit (/ˈbruːt/) is the unusual sound that blood makes when it rushes past an obstruction (called turbulent flow) in an artery..."; who better to symbolize arterial obstruction than Scott Walker?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think we've met, but you've just gained a follower by bringing up some of the most awful possibilities I can imagine. Though I admit that Walker being "bruited about" has a nice ring. Especially since Wikipedia says "Bruit (/ˈbruːt/) is the unusual sound that blood makes when it rushes past an obstruction (called turbulent flow) in an artery..."; who better to symbolize arterial obstruction than Scott Walker?


I had to look up "bruit," too. I think most of the "bruiting about" is being done by Scott.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I had to look up "bruit," too. I think most of the "bruiting about" is being done by Scott.


_Et tu, Brute?_ I'd like to see him get a little "bruting about," instead.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to worry, dame. Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't vote for him no matter how much they spend. Texas seems to be breeding the Macadamian race like rabbits!


I can remember thinking that about George W. Bush.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Equating corporations with people appall me.



midwegian said:


> Unfortunately, money and votes are inextricably entwined in America. And now the USSC is discussing if corporations have religious rights. Can we imagine a near future where enormous sums will not be spent?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very poetic post, Purl. I'm so disgusted by the right wing that I'm not sure I can be objective about any of them.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't think we've met, but you've just gained a follower by bringing up some of the most awful possibilities I can imagine. Though I admit that Walker being "bruited about" has a nice ring. Especially since Wikipedia says "Bruit (/ˈbruːt/) is the unusual sound that blood makes when it rushes past an obstruction (called turbulent flow) in an artery..."; who better to symbolize arterial obstruction than Scott Walker?


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think we've met, but you've just gained a follower by bringing up some of the most awful possibilities I can imagine. Though I admit that Walker being "bruited about" has a nice ring. Especially since Wikipedia says "Bruit (/ˈbruːt/) is the unusual sound that blood makes when it rushes past an obstruction (called turbulent flow) in an artery..."; who better to symbolize arterial obstruction than Scott Walker?


Scott Walker and Ted Cruz .... kind of reminds me of Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich. Given the Republican tendency of late, there will be a late declaring woman candidate a la Palin and Bachmann. What fun, huh? Surely the party can do better.... they are not ALL of them so out of touch with reality are they? (Just trying to look on the bright side here)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Scott Walker and Ted Cruz .... kind of reminds me of Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich. Given the Republican tendency of late, there will be a late declaring woman candidate a la Palin and Bachmann. What fun, huh? Surely the party can do better.... they are not ALL of them so out of touch with reality are they? (Just trying to look on the bright side here)


Just got the shivers reading your post. About women, let's see: There's Marsha Blackburn, "Obama could take away your right to buy cheap shoes"; Virginia Foxx, "Everywhere I go in my district, people tell me they are frightened.  I share that fear, and I believe they should be fearful. And I believe the greatest fear that we all should have to our freedom comes from this room  this very room  and what may happen later this week in terms of a tax increase bill masquerading as a health care bill. *I believe we have more to fear from the potential of that bill passing than we do from any terrorist right now in any country*; Christine O'Donnell, "I'm not a witch"; Sharron Angle, "I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

Enough for you? It's more than enough for me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

As softly as Harry speaks, he is a very dedicated and no BS man. I have heard his name on a daily basis for most of my life. I grew up in Nevada after our parents moved us from NY. He was a politician then, but a fair one.
They don't have to deal with him much longer. He will be retiring after this term.
I could swear that those words from Marsha could have been Michele Bachmann's. EEEKKK!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As softly as Harry speaks, he is a very dedicated and no BS man. I have heard his name on a daily basis for most of my life. I grew up in Nevada after our parents moved us from NY. He was a politician then, but a fair one.
> They don't have to deal with him much longer. He will be retiring after this term.
> I could swear that those words from Marsha could have been Michele Bachmann's. EEEKKK!


I like Harry Reed, though I wish he'd done something about the filibuster a few years ago. Sorry to hear he's retiring, but he still has a couple of years, hasn't he? He could have been replaced by Sharron Angle, which makes me wonder about Nevada.

I think it's funny that he was once a boxer - he seems so small and unaggressive, but who can tell what's inside?

I doubt that Bachmann is worried about cheap shoes. Between her farm subsidies and the govt. payments for her children, she probably makes out all right. Not to mention what Marcus brings in. (Yuck, now I've begun to think about what Marcus brings in.)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Marsha Blackburn was named among the most corrupt in Congress by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. 
I can't figure out why they say that since their site is hard to maneuver around.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As softly as Harry speaks, he is a very dedicated and no BS man. I have heard his name on a daily basis for most of my life. I grew up in Nevada after our parents moved us from NY. He was a politician then, but a fair one.
> They don't have to deal with him much longer. He will be retiring after this term.
> I could swear that those words from Marsha could have been Michele Bachmann's. EEEKKK!


This article indicates he is NOT RETIRING:

Nevada: Harry Reid to Retire  in 2016?

By Meredith Shiner Posted at 12:54 p.m. on Aug. 7, 2012

A Washington Post columnist wrote that Sen. Harry Reid (left) won't run for another term in 2016. (Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call)

Updated: 4:42 pm | Did Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank accidentally announce Senate Majority Leader Harry Reids retirement in an appositive clause buried nine paragraphs down in his column today?

Maybe he was writing what everyone else has been thinking, but in a piece about Reids ongoing spat with Mitt Romney over taxes, Milbank wrote in authoritative terms that the Nevada Democrat would not seek re-election in 2016.

Reid, who won reelection in 2010 and doesnt plan to run for office again, is happy to absorb blows in return  and they have been ferocious, Milbank wrote.

Reid spokesman Adam Jentleson said that despite the column, Reid has no plans to retire.

Multiple sources close to the Majority Leader, however, concede that though Reid has not said so officially, it seems that his time in the Senate is winding down. Reid is 72, the Democrats could lose the Senate either this cycle or maybe next and the Majority Leader has family considerations, as well.

But for now, it appears Reid is quite content where he is  attacking the presumptive GOP presidential nominee from the Senate floor.

UPDATE 4:42 pm

Jentleson added later in the day that Reid is certainly running for re-election. He has every intention of running in 2016, and is actively taking the steps necessary to do so, he said.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From Dean Baker, at http://www.cepr.net/ , Center for Economic and Policy Research

*Pension Theft: Class War Goes to the Next Stage*

In the past two days we've seen a federal judge rule that Detroit can go bankrupt, putting its workers' pensions in jeopardy, and we have seen Illinois' Legislature vote for substantial cuts in its retirees' pensions. Undoubtedly these two actions are just the tip of the iceberg. We have opened up a new sport for America's elite: pension theft.

The specifics of the situations are very different, but the outcome is the same. Public employees who spent decades working for the government are not going to get the pensions that were part of their pay package. In both cases we have governments claiming poverty, and therefore the workers are just out of luck.

Before getting to the specifics of these cases, it is worth dealing with a couple of points. First, there has been a huge media campaign to trumpet the generosity of public-sector pensions. The Washington Post once ran a major front-page article on public pensions in which its poster child was a former official in a small California city who was getting a pension of more than $500,000 a year.

Of course this sounds horrible, and it is. The official had been the city manager and had assigned himself several other top jobs, all of which came with generous pensions. He also was under indictment.

This is not close to the typical pension in California or anywhere else. In the case of Detroit, the typical pension is a bit more than $18,000 a year. In Illinois it's around $33,000 a year. It's important to note that most Illinois workers do not get Social Security, so this is their whole retirement income.

The other item generally missing from the coverage is that these pensions are part of workers' pay. Controlling for education and experience, public-sector pay is somewhat lower than the pay of private-sector workers. The more generous pension and health care benefits that most public-sector workers enjoy are offsetting lower wages.

The pensions are not gifts bestowed by the government on workers; they are part of workers' pay. When the city of Detroit or state of Illinois cut workers' pensions, they are in effect saying that they are not going to pay workers for the work they did.

Turning to the specifics, there is no doubt that Detroit is in bad financial shape. Part of this can be attributed to mismanagement and corruption. However, by far the biggest factor is the decline in the auto industry, which was the driving force of the city's economy.

This decline has far more to do with national economic policy than any decisions made by the city government. It also didn't help matters that the state of Michigan made it very easy to escape the problems of the city by stepping over the city line into the suburbs, which many of its middle-class residents did.

Detroit workers might be forgiven if they thought they could count on getting the pensions for which they worked. After all, the Michigan Constitution prohibits the state from cutting pensions. And the city of Detroit is a creation of the state of Michigan, which might have led them to believe that the Michigan Constitution also applied to Detroit. However, a federal judge just ruled otherwise. Now Detroit's workers face the prospect of a bankruptcy judge taking large chunks out of their pensions.

The story of Illinois pensions should be at least as infuriating. Unlike Detroit, the economy in Illinois is reasonably healthy. News reports often tout its unfunded liability of $100 billion without pointing out that this is an obligation that needs to be met over the next 30 years. During this period, Illinois' economy will exceed $18 trillion in output, putting the liability at roughly 0.6 percent of the state's future income. That is hardly trivial, but neither is it an unbearable burden.

The disturbing aspect about the Illinois situation is that the underfunding of the pension was a deliberate choice. For years the governor and Legislature approved budgets that did not make the required contribution to the pensions. (The city of Chicago, under Mayor Richard M. Daley, did the same thing.) This was a deliberate shafting of workers in which most of the state's leading political figures acquiesced.

Among those who deserve special vilification in this story are the bond-rating agencies (yes, the folks who rated all those subprime mortgage-backed securities as Aaa). During the years of the stock bubble in the 1990s, they analyzed pension funds using the assumption that the bubble would persist indefinitely. This meant that state and local governments had to make little or no contribution to their pensions.

Unfortunately, it was a habit that stuck. Even after the bubble burst, they continued to contribute little or nothing to their pensions.

So now Illinois, Chicago and several other state and local governments have badly under-funded pensions. It would seem that they would have an obligation to raise the revenue needed to pay workers, after all this money they are owed.

But in 21st century America, contracts and the rule of law apparently don't mean anything, at least not if the people at the other end are ordinary workers. So, rather than inconvenience all those rich folks at the Chicago Board of Trade or other highly successful businesses with a larger tax bill, the plan is to stiff the firefighters, the schoolteachers, and the people who collected garbage for 30 years.

It may turn out to be the case that the rich and powerful can just rewrite the rules as they go along. But at least the people should know that theft is now in style when it's their property at stake.

-- This article was originally published by Truthout on December 4, 2013


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is the beginning or a really, really good start on true privatization and greater squeezing of the middle class right out of existence. 
Seriously, the deal with working in public service has always been that you make less money but end up with an opportunity to be able to retire early enough to build upon the little bit of Social Security wages you have paid for/on/into the pot. 
If the amounts are lowered and the ages raised there is absolutely no reason for people to go to work at the rates that John Q. wants to pay if a person has any options or self respect. 
I do have to say that there was plenty of anecdotal testimony about the folks who were willing to do the work that was pretty near identical to what I did for nearly half the money. 
Lots of folks who worked for the Commonwealth supplemented their salaries with work in private non-profit organizations. There was lots of talk of people showing up with alcohol on their breath or not showing up at all while others scurried around to cover those hours. We used to call it warm body syndrome. 
They were supposed to have the same training that we had, however, there were lots of vacancies in classes that they were enrolled in. 
That is not to say that everyone who works for private non-profits is a slug, of course, it is just harder to get people to work there, harder to supervise, harder to be an administrator. 
Those are what will be the available caregiving entities if good paying, more demanding levels of employment are squeezed out with this pension diminishment.



Poor Purl said:


> From Dean Baker, at http://www.cepr.net/ , Center for Economic and Policy Research
> 
> *Pension Theft: Class War Goes to the Next Stage*
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

What's going on in Michigan is probably not representative of the rest of the country, though the GOP would like it to be. The Rep. governor, Rick Snyder (another GOP Rick, like Perry, Scott, and Santorum), together with the right-leaning legislature, passed a law that allows the state to appoint some kind of financial manager for any area that is suffering from financial problems; this manager can override the actions of the duly elected administration, which makes elections irrelevant. The judge in this instance seems to think that's fine. But I don't know whether the same thing would work in Illinois.

I worked at private non-profits for about ten years. They never paid well, but I got good supervision and some control over my work hours. I can't imagine that people with real qualifications would do your job for about half the money.

This is certainly a leg up on the elimination of public employees. Oddly, the taxpayers seem to think public employees are overpaid. Yet they don't seem to think the Waltons or the owners of MacDonald's are overpaid.



jelun2 said:


> This is the beginning or a really, really good start on true privatization and greater squeezing of the middle class right out of existence.
> Seriously, the deal with working in public service has always been that you make less money but end up with an opportunity to be able to retire early enough to build upon the little bit of Social Security wages you have paid for/on/into the pot.
> If the amounts are lowered and the ages raised there is absolutely no reason for people to go to work at the rates that John Q. wants to pay if a person has any options or self respect.
> I do have to say that there was plenty of anecdotal testimony about the folks who were willing to do the work that was pretty near identical to what I did for nearly half the money.
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What's going on in Michigan is probably not representative of the rest of the country, though the GOP would like it to be. The Rep. governor, Rick Snyder (another GOP Rick, like Perry, Scott, and Santorum), together with the right-leaning legislature, passed a law that allows the state to appoint some kind of financial manager for any area that is suffering from financial problems; this manager can override the actions of the duly elected administration, which makes elections irrelevant. The judge in this instance seems to think that's fine. But I don't know whether the same thing would work in Illinois.
> 
> I worked at private non-profits for about ten years. They never paid well, but I got good supervision and some control over my work hours. I can't imagine that people with real qualifications would do your job for about half the money.
> 
> This is certainly a leg up on the elimination of public employees. Oddly, the taxpayers seem to think public employees are overpaid. Yet they don't seem to think the Waltons or the owners of MacDonald's are overpaid.


Illinois is making a move on pensions because they weren't smart enough to fund them. Wisconsin will move on theirs, I have no doubt. 
Taxpayers have this view of "hacks" who do no work. 
I was just thinking the other day about that period in the 90s when things were so flush and management couldn't hire people fast enough. The Local President actually agreed to let them bring in temps ( they used 3 different agencies) to give staff some relief from OT. The trouble is that none of the temps would work there. 
People don't understand that we take care of the most involved, most medically vulnerable folks in the state at the institutions. We applied lots of body casts, appliances, modified feeding systems... it is work and people these days are starting at less than $15./hour. Top of the wage rate for direct care workers is less than $20. 
Private non profit folks start at under $11. and don't get raises often, mainly a raise comes if they increase their education level. 
When I started working for the state in 1989 I qualified for assistance. So overpaid... not so much.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Illinois is making a move on pensions because they weren't smart enough to fund them. Wisconsin will move on theirs, I have no doubt.
> Taxpayers have this view of "hacks" who do no work.
> I was just thinking the other day about that period in the 90s when things were so flush and management couldn't hire people fast enough. The Local President actually agreed to let them bring in temps ( they used 3 different agencies) to give staff some relief from OT. The trouble is that none of the temps would work there.
> People don't understand that we take care of the most involved, most medically vulnerable folks in the state at the institutions. We applied lots of body casts, appliances, modified feeding systems... it is work and people these days are starting at less than $15./hour. Top of the wage rate for direct care workers is less than $20.
> ...


It sounds like you had a lot of physical labor, just what you need as you get older, if the start of Social Security payments keep getting later. Hasn't it always been this way: those who take care of the people who need help most get paid the least. Not only in your position, but mothers, home attendants, the list can go on.

My husband and I watched _Wall Street_ last night - it was homework for a class he's auditing on the history of finance. As Gecko points out, people in his position don't add anything to the economy; they just shift it from one person to another. Yet they're actually given respect. Yukkk.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It sounds like you had a lot of physical labor, just what you need as you get older, if the start of Social Security payments keep getting later. Hasn't it always been this way: those who take care of the people who need help most get paid the least. Not only in your position, but mothers, home attendants, the list can go on.
> 
> My husband and I watched _Wall Street_ last night - it was homework for a class he's auditing on the history of finance. As Gecko points out, people in his position don't add anything to the economy; they just shift it from one person to another. Yet they're actually given respect. Yukkk.


It was hard work, demanding both mentally and physically, and the reason that many of the jobs that workers who care for the "unseen" are those from which people need an early retirement. Ah well, it is someone else's problem now. 
Good night.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Further to The Walton's:
"The six Waltons on Forbes list of wealthiest Americans have a net worth of $144.7 billion. This fiscal year three WaltonsRob, Jim, and Alice (and the various entities that they control)will receive an estimated $3.1 billion in Walmart dividends from their majority stake in the company.
The Waltons arent just the face of the 1%; theyre the face of the 0.000001%. The Waltons have more wealth than 42% of American families combined."
Shameful what has happened to our country since Saint Regan fired the Air Controllers!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Further to The Walton's:
> "The six Waltons on Forbes list of wealthiest Americans have a net worth of $144.7 billion. This fiscal year three WaltonsRob, Jim, and Alice (and the various entities that they control)will receive an estimated $3.1 billion in Walmart dividends from their majority stake in the company.
> The Waltons arent just the face of the 1%; theyre the face of the 0.000001%. The Waltons have more wealth than 42% of American families combined."
> Shameful what has happened to our country since Saint Regan fired the Air Controllers!


 :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Oh, yes.... now Scott Walker is being bruited about as a 2016 Presidential Candidate.


Let the conservatives nominate someone like Cruz or Walker. There is a huge resurgence of labor in response to Walker et al.

But also the dems should get it together and have someone other than a lady hawk like Hillary ready to run.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Let the conservatives nominate someone like Cruz or Walker. There is a huge resurgence of labor in response to Walker et al.
> 
> But also the dems should get it together and have someone other than a lady hawk like Hillary ready to run.


Yup, I will hold my nose if I have to...


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Yup, I will hold my nose if I have to...


I am too old too hold my nose.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Ho Ho Ho


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Ho Ho Ho


and a bottle of rum.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I am too old too hold my nose.


I have to admit more than once I have thanked my lucky, little, stars that I am from Mass and can pretty much vote for any green party person I want and not affect the Electoral College. 
A cop out, perhaps, but many here will attest that I am not perfect.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Is anyone here from Oregon? I want to commend you for sending us Jeff Merkley, who seems to be standing up to everyone these days. Dianne Feinstein on gun control; the Wall St. lobbyists, and their wholly owned congressional subsidiary, on the Volcker Rule; etc. etc. I wish I could vote for him instead of Chuck Schumer.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I have to admit more than once I have thanked my lucky, little, stars that I am from Mass and can pretty much vote for any green party person I want and not affect the Electoral College.
> A cop out, perhaps, but many here will attest that I am not perfect.


I do not think it is a cop out to vote your beliefs and conscience. The dems have gone too far to the right, ie Obama, Pelosi, DiFi, and most others and do not deserve progressive votes any longer...even out of fear of a republican president.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not think it is a cop out to vote your beliefs and conscience. The dems have gone too far to the right, ie Obama, Pelosi, DiFi, and most others and do not deserve progressive votes any longer...even out of fear of a republican president.


Well if we ever get under complete control of the republicans do you have any idea what this country would look like? Social security, Medicare, the snap program, unions, any kind of gun control, abortion rights, public schools, the ACA, would any of it be left? Everything would be privatized and then gone. If public schools were privatized, would the poor neighborhood schools get treated equally to the richer neighborhoods? SS and Medicare probably wouldn't be stopped all at once, but it would be cut and fazed out till it was non existent. I have great fear of complete republican control. This would definitely be an oligarchy. I will continue to vote my conscience and beliefs, and that is democratic.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not think it is a cop out to vote your beliefs and conscience. The dems have gone too far to the right, ie Obama, Pelosi, DiFi, and most others and do not deserve progressive votes any longer...even out of fear of a republican president.


That would be true except that John Kerry and his (GGGrrrrr) broken promise about a recount cost us pretty dearly thanks to a go along Congress... over 2 decades of war years, the foundation for 1984, and a collapsed economy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That would be true except that John Kerry and his (GGGrrrrr) broken promise about a recount cost us pretty dearly thanks to a go along Congress... over 2 decades of war years, the foundation for 1984, and a collapsed economy.


 :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not think it is a cop out to vote your beliefs and conscience. The dems have gone too far to the right, ie Obama, Pelosi, DiFi, and most others and do not deserve progressive votes any longer...even out of fear of a republican president.


I just had to come back and say that I do agree with you. The Dems as a whole do not deserve to be supported by liberals, for way too many years we have supported them through every tiny move for progress, accepting on baby step at a time. We need 30 Bernie Sanders and a hundred Alan Grayson (without the nuttiness) in order to get something done... and a few Anthony Weiner without the phony sex drive.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well if we ever get under complete control of the republicans do you have any idea what this country would look like? Social security, Medicare, the snap program, unions, any kind of gun control, abortion rights, public schools, the ACA, would any of it be left? Everything would be privatized and then gone. If public schools were privatized, would the poor neighborhood schools get treated equally to the richer neighborhoods? SS and Medicare probably wouldn't be stopped all at once, but it would be cut and fazed out till it was non existent. I have great fear of complete republican control. This would definitely be an oligarchy. I will continue to vote my conscience and beliefs, and that is democratic.


I understand what you are saying; however it is just that fear that produces an Obama....lots of false hope...and his audacity to fool well intentioned caring liberals.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I understand what you are saying; however it is just that fear that produces an Obama....lots of false hope...and his audacity to fool well intentioned caring liberals.


It is the American way. 
Conservatives felt the same way about the Bush presidency. There is no way for a person to represent all of the people and remain true to the origins of position, is there?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is the American way.
> Conservatives felt the same way about the Bush presidency. There is no way for a person to represent all of the people and remain true to the origins of position, is there?


What did Bush do to dissatisfy conservatives? After all, he cut taxes to a ridiculous extent, and he got us into a war for oil. What more could they want?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I understand what you are saying; however it is just that fear that produces an Obama....lots of false hope...and his audacity to fool well intentioned caring liberals.


But do you wonder what Obama could have done with a supportive congress. I don't feel fooled at all.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What did Bush do to dissatisfy conservatives? After all, he cut taxes to a ridiculous extent, and he got us into a war for oil. What more could they want?


They didn't like the spending although I don't remember lots of complaints when the decision to go to war was made, only now when they look back on it. It is easier to be dissatisfied now than to say going to war was a good idea.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What did Bush do to dissatisfy conservatives? After all, he cut taxes to a ridiculous extent, and he got us into a war for oil. What more could they want?


I think it was that he failed in destroying social security and, um, that he attempted an immigration reform bill. 
His dip in the numbers was not because of folks like us, we never were happy with him, I don't think.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Just read this on Daily Kos. Notice towards the end of the story our old "friend" Ken Starr reappears.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1261835/-Sex-Abuse-Crisis-of-the-Religious-Right-Grows?detail=email


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> But do you wonder what Obama could have done with a supportive congress. I don't feel fooled at all.


No, I do not wonder. Lots of people feel more than fooled, they feel betrayed. I knew him for a centrist from the beginning. Many of his campaign promises could have been fulfilled without Congress. He is as bad as Bush in many ways.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think it was that he failed in destroying social security and, um, that he attempted an immigration reform bill.
> His dip in the numbers was not because of folks like us, we never were happy with him, I don't think.


All of that is true, and thank goodness he never handed SS over to Wall St. We'd all be in homeless shelters if he had.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Just read this on Daily Kos. Notice towards the end of the story our old "friend" Ken Starr reappears.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1261835/-Sex-Abuse-Crisis-of-the-Religious-Right-Grows?detail=email


Disgusting man. The energy with which he went after Clinton was nauseating, as were the amount of time and money. You could imagine him rubbing his hands together and smacking his lips, like a cartoon villain, but without a mustache to twirl.

Naturally he'd favor an evangelical child predator.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Why didn't more Democrats in the House vote "no" on the budget bill? It didn't do anything for "our" side and let the repubs off the hook, in my opinion. To me it was another case of cave-in by the Dems. I wish they would grow spines.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I notice that on another thread, there are complaints about how Obama behaved at Nelson Mandela's memorial service. This reminded me of my favorite Dick Cheney picture, taken at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Note the formality of his outfit, down to his boots, and the attentive look on his face:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Why didn't more Democrats in the House vote "no" on the budget bill? It didn't do anything for "our" side and let the repubs off the hook, in my opinion. To me it was another case of cave-in by the Dems. I wish they would grow spines.


They voted for it because they are sent to DC to govern. They are taking the hit for no accomplishments just as much as the GOP. 
Heck, we see it it here never mind with people who don't pay attention to politics. 
It is a miniscule improvement, I understand your position, most of the American public doesn't. 
That most is who votes them in or out.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Why didn't more Democrats in the House vote "no" on the budget bill? It didn't do anything for "our" side and let the repubs off the hook, in my opinion. To me it was another case of cave-in by the Dems. I wish they would grow spines.


The republicans have been taking the biggest hits for being obstructionists, because that is what they were. The democrats don't need to go down that road. This bill isn't what either party wanted, but if they are finally willing to work with us, we have to meet them somewhere. We don't need to give the republicans ammo to use against us and man would they ever use it. They would have been yelling from the roof tops that we wouldn't compromise. Lets see what their base thinks of this.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Odd isn't it: economy is bustling now, unemployment is down, stock market hits record highs, Health care Act is working more smoothly and sign ups in the millions.....but not a positive word at the press conference from reporters, and down right nasty questions . Where were they for eight years with the Shrub and never, never a follow up question. Ugh


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Odd isn't it: economy is bustling now, unemployment is down, stock market hits record highs, Health care Act is working more smoothly and sign ups in the millions.....but not a positive word at the press conference from reporters, and down right nasty questions . Where were they for eight years with the Shrub and never, never a follow up question. Ugh


Oh yeah, that liberal bias shows up again, sheesh.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Odd isn't it: economy is bustling now, unemployment is down, stock market hits record highs, Health care Act is working more smoothly and sign ups in the millions.....but not a positive word at the press conference from reporters, and down right nasty questions . Where were they for eight years with the Shrub and never, never a follow up question. Ugh


I agree, such a lack of follow up questions. Just last week in Iowa they were talking to a Latino city councilman about the fact that President Obamas approval rating was down with Lations. The follow up question should have been if he thought congress had anything to do with that and what else he thought the president should be able to do by himself, but there was nothing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh yeah, that liberal bias shows up again, sheesh.


Here it is, in the form of a cartoon. I highly recommend it, but not to the righties. They wouldn't get the joke:

http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/happy_holidays_from_truthdig_20131222


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's the 'liberal' press for you.



MindyT said:


> Odd isn't it: economy is bustling now, unemployment is down, stock market hits record highs, Health care Act is working more smoothly and sign ups in the millions.....but not a positive word at the press conference from reporters, and down right nasty questions . Where were they for eight years with the Shrub and never, never a follow up question. Ugh


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here it is, in the form of a cartoon. I highly recommend it, but not to the righties. They wouldn't get the joke:
> 
> http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/happy_holidays_from_truthdig_20131222


Nope, nobody on the left complains about the gov't headed up by President Obama.

I wanted to share a little cartoon of my own...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If their is a petition out there to sign that states we don't believe in Fox News, I want to sign. That will be a mammoth list. 

Happy Holidays to all.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Nope, nobody on the left complains about the gov't headed up by President Obama.
> 
> I wanted to share a little cartoon of my own...


Hilarious.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> If their is a petition out there to sign that states we don't believe in Fox News, I want to sign. That will be a mammoth list.
> 
> Happy Holidays to all.


I don't know how old this is, but here's one.

http://civic.moveon.org/fox//


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know how old this is, but here's one.
> 
> http://civic.moveon.org/fox//


What a crowd, mention anything and one of us has it, knows about it, can do it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> What a crowd, mention anything and one of us has it, knows about it, can do it.


As long as the crowd includes Google; that's how I found it.

But I bet nobody in this crowd can prove a negative.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Happy Holidays to all here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Isn't that the truth? I'm so proud of being a small part of this group. I'm sure non-members would be surprised, but, judging by our numbers, we are a large, caring and knowledgeable group.



jelun2 said:


> What a crowd, mention anything and one of us has it, knows about it, can do it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> As long as the crowd includes Google; that's how I found it.
> 
> But I bet nobody in this crowd can prove a negative.


Most of us would be much prouder of suggesting a positive.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Happy Holidays to all here.


Now that is dedication. 
Hope you had a restful day.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Happy Holidays to all here.


Or as they would say in the days of my youth

"Compliments of the season to you and your family".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Or as they would say in the days of my youth
> 
> "Compliments of the season to you and your family".


That is a lovely way to put it, much more inclusive than CHRISTmas. Sheesh.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Or as they would say in the days of my youth
> 
> "Compliments of the season to you and your family".


And to you and yours. It sound so gracious.

Welcome back, Ms. Eve. How was your trip?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Now that is dedication.
> Hope you had a restful day.


The picture was on the front page of the New York Times. I was so charmed by it that I wanted to share.

My day was pretty restful. I even got some knitting done. In the evening we watched a documentary about the financial crisis of 2008, which I found very interesting, but DH (who just took a course in the History of Finance) kept interrupting with small lectures on what was left out of the film. That part was not restful, as DS and I wanted to get back to the movie.

How was your Santa Day?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Most of us would be much prouder of suggesting a positive.


_Touché!_


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Isn't that the truth? I'm so proud of being a small part of this group. I'm sure non-members would be surprised, but, judging by our numbers, we are a large, caring and knowledgeable group.


I feel the same way.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The picture was on the front page of the New York Times. I was so charmed by it that I wanted to share.
> 
> My day was pretty restful. I even got some knitting done. In the evening we watched a documentary about the financial crisis of 2008, which I found very interesting, but DH (who just took a course in the History of Finance) kept interrupting with small lectures on what was left out of the film. That part was not restful, as DS and I wanted to get back to the movie.
> 
> How was your Santa Day?


My Santa Day was great fun! My grandson who lives here got way too much! Only one toy didn't work, though. The best gift is a trip to see Disney on Ice tomorrow. Woo Hoo! 
I have been trying to figure out a convenient bus route so that I don't have to pay so much for parking, because, well, yesssssss... I am cheap. 
It should be a great time.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> My Santa Day was great fun! My grandson who lives here got way too much! Only one toy didn't work, though. The best gift is a trip to see Disney on Ice tomorrow. Woo Hoo!
> I have been trying to figure out a convenient bus route so that I don't have to pay so much for parking, because, well, yesssssss... I am cheap.
> It should be a great time.


It's not only cheapness (cheaphood? nah), because unless you get there really early, your car ends up very far from the entrance. Besides, buses are much better for knitting or reading.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And to you and yours. It sound so gracious.
> 
> Welcome back, Ms. Eve. How was your trip?


Thanks. The trip was not as good as my usual Bali visits. I will send you a pm and tell you why, but not tonight. My sister brought a friend who tried to dominate everyone.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks. The trip was not as good as my usual Bali visits. I will send you a pm and tell you why, but not tonight. My sister brought a friend who tried to dominate everyone.


I will wait patiently. Anyone who has "usual Bali visits" is worth waiting to hear from.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What a gracious way of extending good wishes! Thanks for sharing.

So glad to see you're back. Missed you.



EveMCooke said:


> Or as they would say in the days of my youth
> 
> "Compliments of the season to you and your family".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't imagine how unrelaxing that would have been. I hope you gave the friend (and your sister) something to think about.

I've never been to Bali. It sounds like a dream.



EveMCooke said:


> Thanks. The trip was not as good as my usual Bali visits. I will send you a pm and tell you why, but not tonight. My sister brought a friend who tried to dominate everyone.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Is it safe to say "Happy New Year"? Or are there rules about that one as well?

Anyway...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Is it safe to say "Happy New Year"? Or are there rules about that one as well?
> 
> Anyway...


We can fight about it with or without rules. Okay, Empress, put up your Dukes.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We can fight about it with or without rules. Okay, Empress, put up your Dukes.


Maybe the sign should not be in caps, I shouldn't yell. 
It seems that I have my living room, and therefore my TV, all to myself tonight. I am going to enjoy doing a few rows of basket weave which I love because I don't have to pay attention. I flipped a coin which came up tails for CSpan... I have four channels to pick from, YAY. Heads would have been MSNBC. 
I am truly looking forward to falling asleep in my glider, not in the middle of a row...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Maybe the sign should not be in caps, I shouldn't yell.
> It seems that I have my living room, and therefore my TV, all to myself tonight. I am going to enjoy doing a few rows of basket weave which I love because I don't have to pay attention. I flipped a coin which came up tails for CSpan... I have four channels to pick from, YAY. Heads would have been MSNBC.
> I am truly looking forward to falling asleep in my glider, not in the middle of a row...


Sounds delightful. Enjoy it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Sounds delightful. Enjoy it.


It has been nice, I am REALLY looking forward to having my own space back. Not much of a mother I suppose. 
I am watching Mamie Eisenhower, of all the First Ladies she is probably the one I am least interested in, she will be behind me is the best I can say.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It has been nice, I am REALLY looking forward to having my own space back. Not much of a mother I suppose.
> I am watching Mamie Eisenhower, of all the First Ladies she is probably the one I am least interested in, she will be behind me is the best I can say.


Was Mamie as uninteresting as I remember her to be? She was a good opening act for Jackie Kennedy.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Was Mamie as uninteresting as I remember her to be? She was a good opening act for Jackie Kennedy.


All I remember about Mamie is that she was known for her bangs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> All I remember about Mamie is that she was known for her bangs.


I remember those, too. Also, her maiden name was Dowd, which was appropriate.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

http://www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=35

She was known for more than her bangs. A classy lady.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> http://www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=35
> 
> She was known for more than her bangs. A classy lady.


I read it, and see she did a few things that impressed me (invite Marian Anderson to sing, and not invite Joe McCarthy to dine).

I also saw that I spelled her maiden name incorrectly; it was Doud, not Dowd.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was Mamie as uninteresting as I remember her to be? She was a good opening act for Jackie Kennedy.


It seems that Mamie was a ground breaker in that she was the first to really go into campaign mode. 
She had been the quintessential military wife and entertained all the time. She continued that into the White House years and beyond at Gettysburg. 
I had no idea that she and the General retired there. 
I may just go with at least one of the grandkids in order to see some of her MAMIE PINK decor.

And now, I have a question. 
How the heck do people learn these things?

StitchDesigner wrote:
"Of late there were 3 people on the forum who could not play nice with other people. ( ) They finally went overboard and got suspended."

Heck, outside of you all I don't even recall 3 names. 
The "there are mean people on KP and the rest of us are all nice" threads seem to have begun early this week.

My charming grandson and I enjoyed "Disney on Ice" as only a doting Grammy and a barely spoiled 3 yo can. It was fun, fun, fun!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 here. I just want to wish you all a Great 2014. I hope you all are doing well and I wish you all well for the New Year. 

Happy New Year, Shirley


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same to you Designer 1234 and all. Wishing you a happy New Year.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I must be in gossip mode this week.
Early I posted about this bit of gossip.


And now, I have a question. 
How the heck do people learn these things?

StitchDesigner wrote:
"Of late there were 3 people on the forum who could not play nice with other people. ( ) They finally went overboard and got suspended."

Heck, outside of you all I don't even recall 3 names. 
The "there are mean people on KP and the rest of us are all nice" threads seem to have begun early this week. 
******************************
Today she responded to a question about it that the situation was 3 newbies. Now that makes no sense to me.
1. She says that the people FINALLY went overboard... 
2. How could someone who had been here for only a few days do anything so horrendous that they would be suspended?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Designer1234 here. I just want to wish you all a Great 2014. I hope you all are doing well and I wish you all well for the New Year.
> 
> Happy New Year, Shirley


Thank you. I wish the same for you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I must be in gossip mode this week.
> Early I posted about this bit of gossip.
> 
> And now, I have a question.
> ...


Four-letter words? ("KNIT" is a 4-letter word.) It couldn't be anything like calling someone an idiot, because that happens here all the time. I know of one other infraction that carries with it the threat of suspension, but I doubt that's what went on here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It seems that Mamie was a ground breaker in that she was the first to really go into campaign mode.
> She had been the quintessential military wife and entertained all the time. She continued that into the White House years and beyond at Gettysburg.
> I had no idea that she and the General retired there.
> I may just go with at least one of the grandkids in order to see some of her MAMIE PINK decor.
> ...


I haven't seen those "there are mean people on KP and the rest of us are all nice" threads; there's so much going on here that I give up reading after three pages of lists.

I'm so happy you liked the ice show; I love the way you refer to your "charming grandson." I haven't done anything that was fun in a while, but tomorrow I'm going to an "intergenerational knitting project" at a nearby synagogue to knit scarves and hats for charity. Or to teach others how to knit. I think I'll enjoy that.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't seen those "there are mean people on KP and the rest of us are all nice" threads; there's so much going on here that I give up reading after three pages of lists.
> 
> I'm so happy you liked the ice show; I love the way you refer to your "charming grandson." I haven't done anything that was fun in a while, but tomorrow I'm going to an "intergenerational knitting project" at a nearby synagogue to knit scarves and hats for charity. Or to teach others how to knit. I think I'll enjoy that.


An intergenerational anything sounds great, but with knitting involved it is bound to be wonderful! I hope that you truly enjoy it. 
You know, I was just reading about cowls and how fashionable they are, maybe I will do a couple up today to drop off over at the food pantry. Thanks for the great idea!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> An intergenerational anything sounds great, but with knitting involved it is bound to be wonderful! I hope that you truly enjoy it.
> You know, I was just reading about cowls and how fashionable they are, maybe I will do a couple up today to drop off over at the food pantry. Thanks for the great idea!


A friend of mine used to teach a knitting class at a local senior center. She said the women would get into all kinds of disagreements. She finally had to shout at them "Ladies, there's no fighting in knitting" before they'd stop.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> A friend of mine used to teach a knitting class at a local senior center. She said the women would get into all kinds of disagreements. She finally had to shout at them "Ladies, there's no fighting in knitting" before they'd stop.


Why does everyone seem to think disagreements are a bad thing? 
What prods people to THINK if not a viewpoint that disagrees with one's own?

Of course, armed with knitting needles might be a problem if they get too heated.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Why does everyone seem to think disagreements are a bad thing?
> What prods people to THINK if not a viewpoint that disagrees with one's own?
> 
> Of course, armed with knitting needles might be a problem if they get too heated.


Maybe disagreements was too gentle a word; she said they would get into loud arguments about the "right" way to knit and sometimes fight over whose yarn was whose, and someone once stormed out of the room. It was impossible for her to do what she was there to do.

You can deal with disagreement in a kindergarten class, but not with a bunch of grandmothers.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe disagreements was too gentle a word; she said they would get into loud arguments about the "right" way to knit and sometimes fight over whose yarn was whose, and someone once stormed out of the room. It was impossible for her to do what she was there to do.
> 
> You can deal with disagreement in a kindergarten class, but not with a bunch of grandmothers.


Ah, more of those nice women... until they aren't.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Fishy. Say nothing if you're not going to explain the whole thing.



jelun2 said:


> I must be in gossip mode this week.
> Early I posted about this bit of gossip.
> 
> And now, I have a question.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is that the same as "Ladies, there's no crying in baseball?"



Poor Purl said:


> A friend of mine used to teach a knitting class at a local senior center. She said the women would get into all kinds of disagreements. She finally had to shout at them "Ladies, there's no fighting in knitting" before they'd stop.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Why does everyone seem to think disagreements are a bad thing?
> What prods people to THINK if not a viewpoint that disagrees with one's own?
> 
> Of course, armed with knitting needles might be a problem if they get too heated.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe disagreements was too gentle a word; she said they would get into loud arguments about the "right" way to knit and sometimes fight over whose yarn was whose, and someone once stormed out of the room. It was impossible for her to do what she was there to do.
> 
> You can deal with disagreement in a kindergarten class, but not with a bunch of grandmothers.


Sounds like KP at times.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> The whole concept of BAD WORDS makes me laugh. Hatred, lies, violence seem MUCH MUCH WORSE.


Well, you know the saying... if they are talking about those rude people they are leaving me alone.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> The whole concept of BAD WORDS makes me laugh. Hatred, lies, violence seem MUCH MUCH WORSE.


Yes. It is like the people who don't want their children to view anything sexual on the media, violence is just fine, though. The realities of life are not good for them to see and deal with in books or movies, real life is fine. 
I don't understand it, don't give children the written word to help them deal with drinking problems or inappropriate behaviors; sometimes I think we are still in the 1950s.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I was quite pleased today to complete one man's cowl and begin a woman's model. 
Of course, the man's is a cheat as they don't want much length.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is that the same as "Ladies, there's no crying in baseball?"


I think that's why my friend said it that way.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

LOL

Damemary, either you are leaning on the send button, you have something sitting on it, or the key is stuck. Your last reply spanned four pages.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so sorry for the disruption. I will inform Admin right away. Thank you.



sumpleby said:


> LOL
> 
> Damemary, either you are leaning on the send button, you have something sitting on it, or the key is stuck. Your last reply spanned four pages.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Oh Lordy, even the 50's weren't this bad. And if this state of affairs don't qualify for 4-letter words, I give up.


LOL, one click, Empress.

When I think '50s, I think about women having to stay with abusive (in many ways) husbands because he could just walk away and not pay a cent in support. I think of even more children than today living with all forms of abuse because nobody would believe them. I think of miners having no protections going down in those awful work areas; other workers have few protections on the job. Sexual harassment being acceptable...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Segregation, glass ceiling for women? Try brick wall.



jelun2 said:


> LOL, one click, Empress.
> 
> When I think '50s, I think about women having to stay with abusive (in many ways) husbands because he could just walk away and not pay a cent in support. I think of even more children than today living with all forms of abuse because nobody would believe them. I think of miners having no protections going down in those awful work areas; other workers have few protections on the job. Sexual harassment being acceptable...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Segregation, glass ceiling for women? Try brick wall.


There have been a couple of other things that have popped into my head since I last posted, my cold won't let my head hold onto a thought, though.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor dear. Is someone bringing you food and yarn? I hate colds.



jelun2 said:


> There have been a couple of other things that have popped into my head since I last posted, my cold won't let my head hold onto a thought, though.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Poor dear. Is someone bringing you food and yarn? I hate colds.


I just began knitting again yesterday, thank goodness for huge amounts of seemingly useless skeins of yarn that I hadn't given away yet. I did one "male" cowl and started a more feminine one. Between some of the ladies talking cowls around the site and Empress P. Purl talking about an outing today I got all kinds of inspired! 
And yes, I have servants around. 
I do love a quick project, be it food or on needles. 
How has your weekend been?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Has anyone read the NYT story about the Benghazi attack actually being caused by that stupid video and that Issa knew it all along? 
I just see snippets on Facebook.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Awwh, jelun, so sorry to hear you have a cold. No fun! Eat lots of Chicken soup and be pampered!
I haven't seen the NYT bits on Benghazi, but I hope it's all true. It would be nice to get rid of the whining on the parts of the repubs about this. I wouldn't be surprised if Issa knew it all along.He seems like the type of person who is only doing this to get a name for himself. I have one, but it is not appropriate to post on KP. 
We had a "thaw" here for a couple of days. All the way up to 40 above! Now it's below 0 again and all the snow that melted on the sidewalks and driveway is solid ice. I won't be going anywhere this week. 
If that is you in your avatar, you resemble the First Lady.
That's a compliment BTW


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Awwh, jelun, so sorry to hear you have a cold. No fun! Eat lots of Chicken soup and be pampered!
> I haven't seen the NYT bits on Benghazi, but I hope it's all true. It would be nice to get rid of the whining on the parts of the repubs about this. I wouldn't be surprised if Issa knew it all along.He seems like the type of person who is only doing this to get a name for himself. I have one, but it is not appropriate to post on KP.
> We had a "thaw" here for a couple of days. All the way up to 40 above! Now it's below 0 again and all the snow that melted on the sidewalks and driveway is solid ice. I won't be going anywhere this week.
> If that is you in your avatar, you resemble the First Lady.
> That's a compliment BTW


She is lovely, isn't she? That is the FLOTUS exiting Fisher House. Thanks for the thought, though. 
Sorry it is so cold, I don't know how you all stand it. We have been spoiled so far here on the east coast. AOL claims that it is 45 degrees at 9 PM. They are also telling me that Robin Roberts of Good Morning America finally came out; about freaking time, I say.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am going to research the Benghazi thing and see what I can find.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/12/28/benghazi-new-york-times/4232109/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/29/mike-rogers-new-york-times-benghazi_n_4515537.html

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/libya/

This is what I have found so far, jelun.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> .


Marvelous. Bette Midler is so smart.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Has anyone read the NYT story about the Benghazi attack actually being caused by that stupid video and that Issa knew it all along?
> I just see snippets on Facebook.


I started reading it but was called away; I guess I can go back to it. From what I've read so far, the Americans were warned that it might be dangerous, but they were very optimistic.

I'll post a link. Then I'll look for the part about Issa.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> She is lovely, isn't she? That is the FLOTUS exiting Fisher House. Thanks for the thought, though.
> Sorry it is so cold, I don't know how you all stand it. We have been spoiled so far here on the east coast. AOL claims that it is 45 degrees at 9 PM. They are also telling me that Robin Roberts of Good Morning America finally came out; about freaking time, I say.


Yes, she is lovely.
As for the weather, you just get used to it. This has been the coldest since 1983, the year I moved here. I think it's going to be a long one. It's been hard having the cold temps and dealing with Firomyalgia and Osteo Arthritis. Thank the gods for Cuddle Duds and wool socks, lots of coffee and tea, and my meds. If I have Brynn during the day, I take Alleve for the pain which takes the edge off, but doesn't quite get rid of it. I don't want to be under the influence of narcotics and taking care of a toddler. If I had it my way we would all move back to Vegas. Hoping to get there in February when the cabin fever hits the hardest lol. I want to feel the sun baking my bones and maybe get a few freckles while I'm at it


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's the link. It's worth reading. http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/?hp#/?chapt=0

And guess what: "And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."

But there's so much more.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the link. It's worth reading. http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/?hp#/?chapt=0
> 
> And guess what: "And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."
> 
> But there's so much more.


Thanks, Empress Purl. I will read it right now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks, Empress Purl. I will read it right now.


Wow! A very in depth article. I got up to the aftermath and I lost the connection. It certainly puts a new light on the situation.
I can't help but wonder why in the world on two or more occasions did Ambassador Stevens turn down more security for the consulate?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! A very in depth article. I got up to the aftermath and I lost the connection. It certainly puts a new light on the situation.
> I can't help but wonder why in the world on two or more occasions did Ambassador Stevens turn down more security for the consulate?


There were many friendly-seeming Libyans, which made the Americans feel comfortable, but they turned out to be less-than-friendly. Stevens liked Benghazi; he apparently felt more at home there than in Tripoli, where he may have been safer.

So the GOPigs had everything wrong, everything. No Al Qaeda, no slaughter and rape of Stevens, and a serious reaction to the video. Will they admit it and apologize? No, they'll keep bringing it up.

Sorry the cold is causing you such pain. I hope it doesn't get in the way of enjoying being with Brynn. Keep drinking tea and wearing gloves. I guess that's why everyone is knitting mitts. (I so rarely am affected by cold; it's heat I can't tolerate. When I went into menopause I thought to myself "I'll never be cold again," and so far that's been true.)


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the link. It's worth reading. http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/?hp#/?chapt=0
> 
> And guess what: "And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."
> 
> But there's so much more.


LOL, so much more... requests for Mickey Dee's and KFC. HAHAHAHA, global business partnerships on the rise, I have an idea it will be a long darned time before either business invests in Benghazi.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, so much more... requests for Mickey Dee's and KFC. HAHAHAHA, global business partnerships on the rise, I have an idea it will be a long darned time before either business invests in Benghazi.


Why is it that other countries never ask for the best we have, like democracy or - I don't know - hospitals? libraries? universities? But only for the worst, like Disney and McDonalds?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Why is it that other countries never ask for the best we have, like democracy or - I don't know - hospitals? libraries? universities? But only for the worst, like Disney and McDonalds?


They are only human, after all. They want in on the money makers.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Found these on Facebook.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/12/30/phil_robertson_on_marriage_duck_dynasty_star_advised_men_to_find_15_year.html

http://www.upworthy.com/this-is-the-easiest-way-to-explain-equal-pay-for-women-and-maybe-the-funniest


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the link. It's worth reading. http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/?hp#/?chapt=0
> 
> And guess what: "And contrary to claims by some members of Congress, it was fueled in large part by anger at an American-made video denigrating Islam."
> 
> But there's so much more.


Big topic of discussion here in Northern CA on radio talk show this a.m. It turns out two interesting things to me: one, we were told the folks over there were incensed about that video right away, and that caused the attacks. The Republicans immediately jumped on it and politicized the whole debacle. Everyone seemed to then dismiss the video. 
Two, turns out now the leader of the attack against the embassy, was one of " our rebels" we supported during the overthrow. However he does and always did loathe America and Americans. So there is no good side to Lybia or Syria. They all hate us in one way or the other. Everything about this was politicized from the beginning by the R's and the Dem's just can't seem to grab the momentum. Issa is a dreadful person. 
And in the hearing, General Potraius actually stood up for Hil and the group and said they did nothing wrong. We just were too optimistic....Americans always are optimists about people, aren't we?!


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! A very in depth article. I got up to the aftermath and I lost the connection. It certainly puts a new light on the situation.
> I can't help but wonder why in the world on two or more occasions did Ambassador Stevens turn down more security for the consulate?


He majored in the governments and economy and people's of that area and loved that place and the people. He was confident that his cache' would carry the day, as he had been part of all that for many, many years. Spoke the language, etc. And let's not forget, he wasn't at the embassy, but in a 'CIA SAFE HOUSE" installation. So the real question is where was the CIA? As in where was the Secret Service when Kennedy was assassinated.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! A very in depth article. I got up to the aftermath and I lost the connection. It certainly puts a new light on the situation.
> I can't help but wonder why in the world on two or more occasions did Ambassador Stevens turn down more security for the consulate?


I read an article on some site or other (sorry, can't remember the name) that theorized that Stevens turned down extra security because 1) it's bad PR for an embassy to turn itself into anything that looks like an armed fortress--host countries don't take kindly to things like machine gun nests, barbed wire, and scads of armed guards, and 2) it would have been a bad career move on his part. Ambassadors and consulate staff members posted in less-than-friendly countries are aware of the dangers and expected to either live with it or turn down assignment. An embassy that demands extra security is often viewed as a nuisance, whether the concerns are justified or not.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I read an article on some site or other (sorry, can't remember the name) that theorized that Stevens turned down extra security because 1) it's bad PR for an embassy to turn itself into anything that looks like an armed fortress--host countries don't take kindly to things like machine gun nests, barbed wire, and scads of armed guards, and 2) it would have been a bad career move on his part. Ambassadors and consulate staff members posted in less-than-friendly countries are aware of the dangers and expected to either live with it or turn down assignment. An embassy that demands extra security is often viewed as a nuisance, whether the concerns are justified or not.


All of that is very believable, Susan, and so is that view that this was CIA "territory" and that there may have been/should have been CIA coverage there just wasn't. 
To me this comes undet the heading of "bad stuff happens to people...the good, the bad, the mediocre...I don't believe in "the grace of God", I do believe that we struggle to learn from incidents and are rarely successful. 
This event should garner the same attention as the last 10, none.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

One of the only two people I have ever pulled away from the "dark side" posted this on Facebook this AM.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Funny--and sadly true.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I think you all need something to laugh about so here you go.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/31/1266202/-Matt-Taibbi-On-Christmas-Republicans-Quietly-Declare-War-on-Themselves?detail=email#


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

info about tar sands

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/30/1266102/-Scientists-find-approximate-7500-mile-ring-of-Mercury-around-the-tar-sands?detail=email


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The GOP's jobs plan:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think you all need something to laugh about so here you go.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/31/1266202/-Matt-Taibbi-On-Christmas-Republicans-Quietly-Declare-War-on-Themselves?detail=email#


I do like Matt Taibbi, I don't often remember to catch his columns. 
Reading President Clinton's debacle reminded me of why I didn't like him and reminds me of how he became so darned rich.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> info about tar sands
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/30/1266102/-Scientists-find-approximate-7500-mile-ring-of-Mercury-around-the-tar-sands?detail=email


I guess I am feeling old and that the assaults are coming from too many different sides. 
Trying to improve conditions seems hopeless.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I guess I am feeling old and that the assaults are coming from too many different sides.
> Trying to improve conditions seems hopeless.


I know. When it looks like one issue is making progress, you get hit from the other side. I think common sense is what is missing. If they just used common sense instead of money and political party, what a different world this could be.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I know. When it looks like one issue is making progress, you get hit from the other side. I think common sense is what is missing. If they just used common sense instead of money and political party, what a different world this could be.


Thanks for reminding me, those regressives spent millions upon millions of dollars in the last cycle to keep people from voting and still the turnout was massive!


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for reminding me, those regressives spent millions upon millions of dollars in the last cycle to keep people from voting and still the turnout was massive!


The turnout was massive *because* they tried to keep people from voting. Nothing is more likely to get people's dander up than trying to deny them something. Especially something that is so important.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> The turnout was massive *because* they tried to keep people from voting. Nothing is more likely to get people's dander up than trying to deny them something. Especially something that is so important.


Well, the turnout in 2008 was pretty darned good.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/armed-minnesota-man-burns-down-his-own-house-then-blames-obama/

We will never find out, of course, how he managed to own a gun. Sad.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

OK, I have to ask a question of people who think somewhat like I do as this little point jumps out at me in so many threads and I am, frankly, quite sick of getting jumped on for what I consider rational questions. 

This happens frequently, as I already said, there are two very recent examples I can point to. 
1. A woman posted that her daughter in law is having a baby and she is planning a shower and the DIL seems to have overreached on the guest list... isn't the son/daughter of this woman also having this baby? 

2. A woman wrote about being hurt because her DIL cancelled a "post Christmas' visit so that a cousin could visit the DIL and son. 
Who is supposed to have loyalty to this mother? Why did the son not contact his parents? Now, I admit there may have been a discussion and the son may have said "you messed up the plans, you tell them". Still, no follow up phone call?
Just wondering about your take on these situations.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for reminding me, those regressives spent millions upon millions of dollars in the last cycle to keep people from voting and still the turnout was massive!


Yet, it's not adequately reported after the fact how many people may have been prevented from voting.

We do have to wonder if the make up of the congress would be somewhat different if the Right hadn't been preventing people from voting.

It's like the media says "_Well, Obama got in anyway_" and then they move on from the story... but that doesn't mean that elections in certain states weren't effected by their sabotage.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Yet, it's not adequately reported after the fact how many people may have been prevented from voting.
> 
> We do have to wonder if the make up of the congress would be somewhat different if the Right hadn't been preventing people from voting.
> 
> It's like the media says "_Well, Obama got in anyway_" and then they move on from the story... but that doesn't mean that elections in certain states weren't effected by their sabotage.


Very true, Eric Holder and the DOJ are trying to keep up with the mess that the SCOTUS managed to create. It's always hard to tell just how long those cases will take to wind through the system.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Yet, it's not adequately reported after the fact how many people may have been prevented from voting.
> 
> We do have to wonder if the make up of the congress would be somewhat different if the Right hadn't been preventing people from voting.
> 
> It's like the media says "_Well, Obama got in anyway_" and then they move on from the story... but that doesn't mean that elections in certain states weren't effected by their sabotage.


I think the makeup of congress is really affected by the redistricting and that won't change soon. Democrats have done it it too and I think people from both parties should have to agree on the new districts, rather than one party getting to do it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think the makeup of congress is really affected by the redistricting and that won't change soon. Democrats have done it it too and I think people from both parties should have to agree on the new districts, rather than one party getting to do it.


Uh huh, let's face it politically active people believe that the views they hold are the best, it is human nature to want to give your "side" a benefit. Isn't it the responsibility to convince those less invested that you are are right and they should vote for your ideas?
Doesn't having less people vote for your ideas without rigging the game give anyone a clue that maybe their ideas are outdated and, well, just plain stupid?
And yes, I apologize for mixing pronouns. But well, you know... read my mind!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Uh huh, let's face it politically active people believe that the views they hold are the best, it is human nature to want to give your "side" a benefit. Isn't it the responsibility to convince those less invested that you are are right and they should vote for your ideas?
> Doesn't having less people vote for your ideas without rigging the game give anyone a clue that maybe their ideas are outdated and, well, just plain stupid?
> And yes, I apologize for mixing pronouns. But well, you know... read my mind!


I understand people running for congress usually have a lot of time and money invested in the process. I am sure that once you have control it would really hurt to loose it, and after all no one wants to be fired from their job. But where do these people get the idea that it is ok to cheat, cause that is what they are doing. I think they put themselves up on a pedestal after they win and start to believe they are God like and then proceed to do what they want and not what the people want. 
I am constantly emailing senator Grassley, and the emails I get back from him is the biggest bunch of BS you will ever read. I don't know if he really believes it or just thinks it is what I should hear.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I understand people running for congress usually have a lot of time and money invested in the process. I am sure that once you have control it would really hurt to loose it, and after all no one wants to be fired from their job. But where do these people get the idea that it is ok to cheat, cause that is what they are doing. I think they put themselves up on a pedestal after they win and start to believe they are God like and then proceed to do what they want and not what the people want.
> I am constantly emailing senator Grassley, and the emails I get back from him is the biggest bunch of BS you will ever read. I don't know if he really believes it or just thinks it is what I should hear.


I don't think it's a God complex. They've simply looked at what the top 10% do to amass their wealth, and done likewise. Bankers have been cheating like crazy and gotten away with it. Government contractors, too. The coal and oil industries crap all over the environment and get away with it. Walmart maybe sticks to the letter of the law, but the spirit of America is *not* for people to have to work 3 jobs and be on Medicaid to keep body and soul together.

Do you think Grassley knows what emails his staff is sending you? Doesn't know and doesn't care. He gets elected anyway; what kind of threat do you pose?

Whoa, sorry. I got all caught up. I think I'm having hot flashes. Sorry, NJG.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think it's a God complex. They've simply looked at what the top 10% do to amass their wealth, and done likewise. Bankers have been cheating like crazy and gotten away with it. Government contractors, too. The coal and oil industries crap all over the environment and get away with it. Walmart maybe sticks to the letter of the law, but the spirit of America is *not* for people to have to work 3 jobs and be on Medicaid to keep body and soul together.
> 
> Do you think Grassley knows what emails his staff is sending you? Doesn't know and doesn't care. He gets elected anyway; what kind of threat do you pose?
> 
> Whoa, sorry. I got all caught up. I think I'm having hot flashes. Sorry, NJG.


Hey, I've had those flashes before. I am sure I don't pose any threat at all. His emails always start out the same way, about how glad he is to hear from me and how he appreciates hearing from me. Ya right. I was hopping he wouldn't run again and told him that, but he doesn't listen to me. The good Senator Tom Harkin is retiring. Darn


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Satire alert, Wishful Thinking Department

January 6, 2014

*Polar Vortex Causes Hundreds of Injuries as People Making Snide Remarks About Climate Change Are Punched in Face*

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report)The so-called polar vortex caused hundreds of injuries across the Midwest today, as people who said so much for global warming and similar comments were punched in the face.

Authorities in several states said that residents who had made ignorant comments erroneously citing the brutally cold temperatures as proof that climate change did not exist were reporting a sharp increase in injuries to the face and head regions.

In an emergency room in St. Paul, Harland Dorrinson, forty-one, was waiting to be treated for bruising to the facial area after he made a crack about how the below-freezing temperatures meant that climate-change activists were full of shit.

Id just finished saying it and boom, out of nowhere someone punched me in the face, he said. This polar vortex is really dangerous.

The meteorology professor Davis Logsdon, of the University of Minnesota, issued a safety warning to residents of the states hammered by the historic low temperatures: If you are living within the range of the polar vortex and you have something idiotic to say about climate change, do not leave your house.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Satire alert, Wishful Thinking Department
> 
> January 6, 2014
> 
> ...


If wishes were horses...


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> If wishes were horses...


Good one. 
In California they finally selected an independent panel to redraw all the districts. They could never get the R's to sit down and actually do work on it. And guess what, it came out with more Dems. Ooops

And on another note, some guy from the tech industry is going to float a proposition to split California not in half as has been talked since maybe 25 years ago, but into 6 states. Yikes. 
More senators would be good, as it is hard to figure that California and, say Rhode Island, should both have two senators. But six states, six constitutions, etc. Wow tires me out to think of it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Good one.
> In California they finally selected an independent panel to redraw all the districts. They could never get the R's to sit down and actually do work on it. And guess what, it came out with more Dems. Ooops
> 
> And on another note, some guy from the tech industry is going to float a proposition to split California not in half as has been talked since maybe 25 years ago, but into 6 states. Yikes.
> More senators would be good, as it is hard to figure that California and, say Rhode Island, should both have two senators. But six states, six constitutions, etc. Wow tires me out to think of it.


Yes, 6 does seem to be a bit much. 
Never mind RI, how about some of those states that have no people in them?
LOL, and how about that guy who thinks that nation's capital should be in Nebraska where EVERY year they have this horrendous temperatures? Heat in the summer and frigid in the winter. 
Honestly, though, think of the boon it would be if we went the route of these suggestions for Cali and split the nation into 3 regional centers...? Place the "DC" of each region in a section that is hurting economically? Tennessee? Kentucky?

Wyoming, VT and North Dakota have the lowest populations. Sorry, I just have to do it, something like that gets to me and I have to look it up.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> OK, I have to ask a question of people who think somewhat like I do as this little point jumps out at me in so many threads and I am, frankly, quite sick of getting jumped on for what I consider rational questions.
> 
> This happens frequently, as I already said, there are two very recent examples I can point to.
> 1. A woman posted that her daughter in law is having a baby and she is planning a shower and the DIL seems to have overreached on the guest list... isn't the son/daughter of this woman also having this baby?
> ...


I remember both those threads very well and, like you, felt awkward about stating what I really thought.

1. Ridiculous--since when does the guest of honor at a baby or bridal shower get to dictate the guest list? If the hostess can't afford to or simply doesn't want to bother feeding all those people then she should say so. She's throwing the party and, while the guest of honor's wishes should certainly be considered, she does have the right to put her foot down if things are getting out of hand.

2. I felt sorry for the disappointed mother in this case but do feel she needs to cut her children some slack. All marriages bring two separate families together, and married children often run themselves ragged trying to please both sides. Mom certainly has the right to know whether her children do or do not expect to be around for the holidays, but tears, tantrums, and guilt trips are inappropriate and only make the situation worse.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Just came upon an interesting fact:



> The FBI once spent two years investigating a song.
> During the 1960s, analysts at the FBIs cutting-edge laboratory spent more than two years investigating the lyrics of the Kingsmens hit pop song Louie Louie. As rumors swirled that the catchy but poorly recorded tunes garbled verses contained pornographic language, concerned parents wrote to government authorities expressing their outrage. The FBI responded by subjecting various versions of the song to rigorous audio tests and producing a 120-page report that concluded it was unintelligible at any speed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why I love rock & roll. Leave us dancing and them suspicious.



Poor Purl said:


> Just came upon an interesting fact:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> That's why I love rock & roll. Leave us dancing and them suspicious.


Did you ever see J. Edgar Hoover dancing? Not a pretty sight, I would suppose.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you ever see J. Edgar Hoover dancing? Not a pretty sight, I would suppose.


I think that would depend on the dress he chose.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that would depend on the dress he chose.


HAHAHAHAHAAA


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I knew you would like that one.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember feeding my oldest when the news came on that Hoover died. Automatically I started singing ' Ding dong the witch is dead."



Poor Purl said:


> Did you ever see J. Edgar Hoover dancing? Not a pretty sight, I would suppose.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I remember feeding my oldest when the news came on that Hoover died. Automatically I started singing ' Ding dong the witch is dead."


I bet that was a pretty sight. Did your kid realize what you were doing?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She was only about a year old. She did try to dance along.



Poor Purl said:


> I bet that was a pretty sight. Did your kid realize what you were doing?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Think this will be another Stand Your Ground defense?

*Man Killed During Argument Over Texting at Movie Theater*
By FRANCES ROBLES
JAN. 13, 2014

MIAMI  An argument over texting at the movies ended in a cellphone users death, when a retired police officer in the audience shot him at a theater near Tampa, Fla., on Monday afternoon, the authorities said.

Two couples were among patrons at a matinee of Lone Survivor at the Grove 16 movie theater in Wesley Chapel, about 20 miles northeast of Tampa, when one of the men, a retired Tampa police officer, got angry because the man in front of him was using his phone during the previews, despite being asked to stop several times, said Douglas Tobin, a Pasco County sheriffs office spokesman.

A witness told local television stations that the offended man stormed out to get a manager, but returned without one. The man using the phone explained to the irritated man that he was simply texting his 3-year-old daughter, the witness, Charles Cummings, told Tampas FOX 13 television.

Three seconds, four seconds later, the argument starts again, Mr. Cummings told reporters outside the theater. Their voices start going up; there seems to be almost a confrontation. Somebody throws popcorn, Im not sure who threw the popcorn, and, bang, he was shot.

A nurse in the audience tried performing CPR on the victim while an off-duty sheriffs deputy from another county detained the gunman.

The victim was identified as Chad Oulson, 43, of Land O Lakes, Fla. His wife, Nicole, had placed her hand over her husband just as he was shot, and was wounded, Mr. Tobin said.

The gunman, Curtis Reeves, 71, was charged with second-degree murder.

Mr. Reeves retired as a captain in 1993 from the Tampa Police Department.

The theater, part of the Cobb Theaters chain, was evacuated and closed.

Cinema executives acknowledged during a trade conference last year that they debated whether to accommodate younger viewers by allowing text messages during some movies. It was widely reported that the AMC chain had agreed to set aside the last rows for patrons to text without bothering others, but the company quickly denied considering such a move.

Despite the tragic altercation in a Florida movie theater, which as reported is an isolated incident, movie theaters are a safe and enjoyable entertainment destination for millions of people, said Patrick Corcoran, a spokesman for the National Association of Theater Owners. We encourage our patrons to remember that they are sharing a common wish to be entertained and to treat their fellow moviegoers with courtesy and respect.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Think this will be another Stand Your Ground defense?
> 
> *Man Killed During Argument Over Texting at Movie Theater*
> By FRANCES ROBLES
> ...


Remember when we used to say that we could kill to protect our kids?
I guess now some can kill to protect their viewing of movie trailers. 
I love the "common wish... respect" line from the theater.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Unthinkable a little while ago. I'm so troubled by people's first thought to get a gun and settle this. Not only should this person be tried criminally, he should also be sued in a civil court for punishment and damages.

Ps Purl. How could 'stand your ground' apply when you're not defending your home and when you started the altercation. I'm sure the lawyers have lots of defense ideas any way.



Poor Purl said:


> Think this will be another Stand Your Ground defense?
> 
> *Man Killed During Argument Over Texting at Movie Theater*
> By FRANCES ROBLES
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Unthinkable a little while ago. I'm so troubled by people's first thought to get a gun and settle this. Not only should this person be tried criminally, he should also be sued in a civil court for punishment and damages.
> 
> Ps Purl. How could 'stand your ground' apply when you're not defending your home and when you started the altercation. I'm sure the lawyers have lots of defense ideas any way.


I think that was tung in scheek.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

damemary said:


> Unthinkable a little while ago. I'm so troubled by people's first thought to get a gun and settle this. Not only should this person be tried criminally, he should also be sued in a civil court for punishment and damages.
> 
> Ps Purl. How could 'stand your ground' apply when you're not defending your home and when you started the altercation. I'm sure the lawyers have lots of defense ideas any way.


A prosecutor can ask for a judgement for financial damages if he is prosecuted. It needs to be specifically requested though. And if they don't then I really hope that it is taken to civil court. Could someone sue on behalf of the three year old, since she lost her father?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Remember when we used to say that we could kill to protect our kids?
> I guess now some can kill to protect their viewing of movie trailers.
> I love the "common wish... respect" line from the theater.


(I see you've added a sentence to your signature. It's a funny one) Yes, I like the theater spokesman's comment, too. It made me think of the BP CEO, after the oil spill and the death of 11 people, who said he wanted his life back.

Can you imagine what the shooter must have been like as a cop?

Well, guns don't kill people; people kill people. But people with guns kill a whole lot more, and apparently for no reason at all.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Unthinkable a little while ago. I'm so troubled by people's first thought to get a gun and settle this. Not only should this person be tried criminally, he should also be sued in a civil court for punishment and damages.
> 
> Ps Purl. How could 'stand your ground' apply when you're not defending your home and when you started the altercation. I'm sure the lawyers have lots of defense ideas any way.


The "stand your ground" was meant as a joke, but I bet it gets at least a mention.

Not only should the shooter be tried and sued but so should the NRA, for making certain things like this can happen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that was tung in scheek.


What in who?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> A prosecutor can ask for a judgement for financial damages if he is prosecuted. It needs to be specifically requested though. And if they don't then I really hope that it is taken to civil court. Could someone sue on behalf of the three year old, since she lost her father?


Isn't that what wrongful death suits are for?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't that what wrongful death suits are for?


Think of how much simpler it would be if you could avoid that wrongful death trial, though. 
Less time, no using a personal attorney who is going to charge up the wazoo. 
I generally think of wrongful death as the after the fact trial for a not guilty verdict, not that it is really accurate.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Then we have the good news, I just love civil rights. 

US judge strikes down Okla. same-sex marriage ban
Jan 14th 2014 7:50PM
5860

TULSA, Okla. (AP) - A federal judge struck down Oklahoma's gay marriage ban Tuesday, but headed off any rush to the altar by setting aside his order while state and local officials complete an appeal.

It was the second time in a month that a federal judge has set aside a deeply conservative state's limits on same-sex marriage, after Utah's ban was reversed in December.

In his ruling, U.S. District Judge Terence Kern described Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage as "an arbitrary, irrational exclusion of just one class of Oklahoma citizens from a governmental benefit."

The decision drew criticism from the governor, attorney general and other elected officials in this state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt. A state lawmaker who once said gay people posed a greater threat to the nation than terrorism blasted rulings from "activist judges."

Kern said the ban violates the U.S. Constitution's equal protection clause because it precludes same-sex couples from receiving an Oklahoma marriage license. In his 68-page ruling, Kern frequently referenced U.S. Supreme Court decisions issued last summer on gay marriage. He also took a shot at Oklahoma's high divorce rate, noting that "excluding same-sex couples from marriage has done little to keep Oklahoma families together thus far."

"Exclusion of just one class of citizens from receiving a marriage license based upon the perceived 'threat' they pose to the marital institution is, at bottom, an arbitrary exclusion based upon the majority's disapproval of the defined class," Kern wrote. "It is also insulting to same-sex couples, who are human beings capable of forming loving, committed, enduring relationships."

Republican Gov. Mary Fallin issued a written statement accusing Kern of undermining the will of Oklahoma voters who passed the gay marriage ban by a 3-1 margin in 2004.

"The people of Oklahoma have spoken on this issue. I support the right of Oklahoma's voters to govern themselves on this and other policy matters. I am disappointed in the judge's ruling and troubled that the will of the people has once again been ignored by the federal government," the statement said.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt said the Supreme Court had left it to the states to define marriage and that Kern's ruling was "troubling." He said it would likely take another Supreme Court decision to resolve the matter.

Not including Utah and Oklahoma, 27 states still have constitutional prohibitions on same-sex marriage. Four more - Indiana, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Wyoming - do not permit it through state laws.

There are currently 43 same-sex lawsuits in courts, with 27 of those in federal court, said Camilla Taylor, marriage project director at Lambda Legal, a civil rights organization. Oklahoma's ban on same-sex marriage is the third to be struck down by a federal judge, after California and Utah. State courts also ruled in favor of same-sex marriage in New Mexico in December and New Jersey in October.

Taylor said momentum has been increasing as litigators see that gay-rights groups are winning same-sex marriage cases. She said a new same-sex marriage lawsuit is brought almost every week.

For 17 days, Utah was the 18th state to allow gay couples to wed, after a federal judge there overturned the state's same-sex marriage ban. Hundreds of couples got married before the Supreme Court put a halt to the weddings earlier this month by granting the state a stay on a federal judge's ruling that two other courts previously denied.

The fate of gay marriage in Utah now rests in the hands of the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver - the same circuit as Oklahoma.

In both causes, federal judges said the states' gay marriage laws violated the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.

"Equal protection is at the very heart of our legal system and central to our consent to be governed," Kern wrote. "It is not a scarce commodity to be meted out begrudgingly or in short portions. Therefore, the majority view in Oklahoma must give way to individual constitutional rights."

Tulsa couple Mary Bishop and Sharon Baldwin, who work at the Tulsa World newspaper, filed the Oklahoma lawsuit along with another same-sex couple in November 2004, shortly after voters approved the constitutional amendment. Their case was the longest-running challenge to the Defense of Marriage Act, according to the national gay marriage advocacy group Freedom to Marry.

"There's so much emotion, I'm kind of crying right now," Bishop said Tuesday. "It's overwhelming to think that we finally won.

"Sharon and I want to get married here in Oklahoma. We've been together for more than 17 years - it's time. This is something that when I was young, I thought I'd never see in my lifetime."

Tulsa County Court Clerk Sally Howe Smith said there was no way under Oklahoma law for her to give the couple a marriage license. "That's how I became a defendant in the case," she said.

Taylor, with Lambda Legal, said she wasn't sure why the judge's ruling came now, though she noted that he made several references to the Utah case in his ruling.

In 2006, the Tulsa couples' case made its way to the 10th Circuit after the district court denied the governor of Oklahoma and the state attorney general's motion to dismiss the case. The appeals court ruled in 2009 that the couple lacked standing, so the two couples filed an amended complaint removing the governor and attorney general and adding Smith.

"The Bishop couple has been in a loving, committed relationships for many years," Kern wrote. "They own property together, wish to retire together, wish to make medical decisions for one another, and wish to be recognized as a married couple with all its attendant rights and responsibilities."

___

Associated Press reporters Kristi Eaton, Sean Murphy and Tim Talley contributed from Oklahoma City.

More From You347 Comments


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Think of how much simpler it would be if you could avoid that wrongful death trial, though.
> Less time, no using a personal attorney who is going to charge up the wazoo.
> I generally think of wrongful death as the after the fact trial for a not guilty verdict, not that it is really accurate.


I think that's what it's mostly used for. The Goldman family brought a wrongful death suit again OJ after he walked.

It certainly would be simpler if the justice system always worked as it should, but it doesn't.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Then we have the good news, I just love civil rights.
> 
> US judge strikes down Okla. same-sex marriage ban
> Jan 14th 2014 7:50PM
> ...


Well the gov needs to update herself. In the 10 years since that vote a whole lot of people have come of age to vote and I would bet many of them are more tolerant of gay rights.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think that's what it's mostly used for. The Goldman family brought a wrongful death suit again OJ after he walked.
> 
> It certainly would be simpler if the justice system always worked as it should, but it doesn't.


There isn't much justice at all in that system.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This was in my inbox, and probably in many of yours. Can those righty people still think they're fooling anyone?

*Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts*

Millions of families are hanging on by their fingernails to their place in the middle class  and the United States Senate just voted to let them fall.

I'm ashamed that the Senate didn't extend unemployment benefits yesterday. I'm sickened that my colleagues went home last night knowing that they just cut off a little help for millions of people who have worked hard and who can't find a job.

And I'm appalled that so many Senators cannot admit the simple reality: we are still in the middle of a jobs crisis. People have been looking for work for months or even years. Many are starting to give up entirely. Young people are beginning to think that there isn't a future out there for them. Long-term unemployment isn't just about money; it's also about losing hope.

These people  our friends, our families, our neighbors  they weren't the ones who broke our economy. So many people worked hard, played by the rules, and did everything we told them to  and now struggle to find work. They need our help.

We help because we care about people, but we also help because it is good for the economy. The numbers show money put into unemployment goes right back into the economy to help stimulate more demand and more business activity. According to a new Congressional report, in just one week after unemployment benefits expired, our state economies lost $400 million. Extending unemployment makes good business sense.

There's so much we should be doing to strengthen our economy and rebuild our middle class, and yesterday we took a step backwards. Washington needs to get back to work solving problems  not making them worse  so families can get back to work.

I really don't get why the Republicans would stand in the way on this issue. I don't get it, but I'm taking stock  and like many of my colleagues who voted to help people yesterday, I'm not giving up.

Thank you for being a part of this,

Elizabeth


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that was tung in scheek.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I love puns.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> (I see you've added a sentence to your signature. It's a funny one) Yes, I like the theater spokesman's comment, too. It made me think of the BP CEO, after the oil spill and the death of 11 people, who said he wanted his life back.
> 
> Can you imagine what the shooter must have been like as a cop?
> 
> Well, guns don't kill people; people kill people. But people with guns kill a whole lot more, and apparently for no reason at all.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Well the gov needs to update herself. In the 10 years since that vote a whole lot of people have come of age to vote and I would bet many of them are more tolerant of gay rights.


All of these Red(neck) states might as well just give it up. The SCOTUS has said that the federal government will recognize same sex marriage, that people are free to move from state to state and have the marriage recognized. 
Grow up, people, you have lost. Take your bigotry and store it in your religious building and put it away. Your desire to keep others down is toast.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't that what wrongful death suits are for?


Yes, I think it is. I really hope they bring one.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Michigan National Republican Committee member Dave Agema said. 
"Have you ever seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the American way of life?"

He has made other derogatory statements too about gays, but no one has the guts to ask him to resign, so I guess they deserve him.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Virginia has a guy running for a seat in the house that is one of the "typical" republicans. Take a look.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dick-black-rape_n_4602683.html


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The nightmare continues. The source of this quiz is the father of the student who took it. He will not identify the school until June, after his daughter finishes the school year there, after which she will move to another school.

*South Carolina Christian School Fourth Grade Science Quiz* (Snopes rated this as probably true)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Virginia has a guy running for a seat in the house that is one of the "typical" republicans. Take a look.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dick-black-rape_n_4602683.html


He has at least one good point: at least he doesn't call himself Rick to hide how much of a Dick he is.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi all
I ran across this today and thought some of you might enjoy reading it. The ads are hilarious even though the message sure isn't! We've come a long way, baby---or have we?
I know it's not on current topic, but I might forget to post it if I wait until I have more time.
I may be able to check in later . . .

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/selling-shame-40-outrageous-vintage-ads-any-woman-would-find-offensive/


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Hi all
> I ran across this today and thought some of you might enjoy reading it. The ads are hilarious even though the message sure isn't! We've come a long way, baby---or have we?
> I know it's not on current topic, but I might forget to post it if I wait until I have more time.
> I may be able to check in later . . .
> ...


Oh my gosh, Al--these are priceless! Thanks so much for posting this--who knew that "red dishwashy hands" or gap-osis (gaps between one's skirt buttons) could spell DOOM for the most solid of marriages?

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> All of these Red(neck) states might as well just give it up. The SCOTUS has said that the federal government will recognize same sex marriage, that people are free to move from state to state and have the marriage recognized.
> Grow up, people, you have lost. Take your bigotry and store it in your religious building and put it away. Your desire to keep others down is toast.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OMG What a lulu!



NJG said:


> Virginia has a guy running for a seat in the house that is one of the "typical" republicans. Take a look.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/dick-black-rape_n_4602683.html


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Hi all
> I ran across this today and thought some of you might enjoy reading it. The ads are hilarious even though the message sure isn't! We've come a long way, baby---or have we?
> I know it's not on current topic, but I might forget to post it if I wait until I have more time.
> I may be able to check in later . . .
> ...


Thank you. This will take a lot of study - it's both hilarious and horrifying.

Reminds me of those "ring around the collar" ads where the woman is ashamed of her lack of skill at laundry, but the man isn't embarrassed about his dirty neck.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Michigan National Republican Committee member Dave Agema said.
> "Have you ever seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the American way of life?"
> 
> He has made other derogatory statements too about gays, but no one has the guts to ask him to resign, so I guess they deserve him.


Are you kidding me? 
Does the man even know a Muslim?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh my gosh, Al--these are priceless! Thanks so much for posting this--who knew that "red dishwashy hands" or gap-osis (gaps between one's skirt buttons) could spell DOOM for the most solid of marriages?
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Now you know. Forewarned is forearmed.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Are you kidding me?
> Does the man even know a Muslim?


If you've never seen a Muslim, then you've never seen a Muslim "do anything that contributes positively to the American way of life." What are you complaining about?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Not earth-shaking but fun:

*Daily Meme: What We've Learned about Politicians from Their Roommates*

Bill Delahunt, Dick Durbin's roommate: He will kill them with his bare hands." <For an explanation, go to http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/18/garden/18roomies.html >

George Miller, Chuck Schumer's roommate: French poets lived better than Schumer was living."

John Tyson, Al Gore's roommate: "I always knew he'd be President. He does well in an environment where there is a lot of pressure.''

Al Gore, Tommy Lee Jones roommate: "Both Mr. Gore and Mr. Jones, who grew up in Texas and lives there still, recall nearly killing an elm tree near where they lived in a monthlong knife-throwing contest, 'testing our ability in that backwoods skill.'"

Connie Britton, Kirsten Gillibrand's roommate on their time together during study abroad in China: We were there over the summer so the American Embassy had a big Fourth of July party, the actress shared. And part of that was doing a lip sync contest. And Kirsten and two other girlfriends of ours who were in the China program did a Madonna song. Cant remember exactly which one it was, but let me just say, we won the contest.

Ron Paul, Rand Paul's roommate: Im not going to take care of him the way his mother did."

Andrew Cuomo, Mario Cuomo's roommate: ''We'd come home, one of us would burn something for dinner, and we'd talk."

Phil Boerner, Barack Obama's roomate: "As a host and roommate, he sometimes did the shopping and cooked the chicken curry."

Mike Capuano, Anthony Weiner's roommate: He obviously did something incredibly stupid that, honestly, I still dont understand.

Jon Stewart, Anthony Weiner's roommate: His dick isnt that big. It cant be.

Craig Mazin, Ted Cruz's roommate: "I would rather have anybody else be the president of the United States. Anyone. I would rather pick somebody from the phone book."

Jim Cramer, Eliot Spitzer's roommate: "Eliot is a maelstrom.

Betty Ford, Gerald Ford's roommate: At 7 A.M., the President of the United States, in baby-blue short pajamas, appears on his doorstep looking for the morning paper, then goes back inside to fix his orange juice and English muffin."

Brainerd Taylor, Anthony Lake's roommate: "He resents Lake's strategy for obtaining the suite's private bedroom, which they had shared during alternating terms. During his turn, Lake had the room painted 'an absolutely bilious yellow,' said Taylor, who as a future major in architecture was appalled. 'He knew I would be absolutely unwilling to sleep in it. That was Tony to a T.'"

Describing the roommates at the C Street House: "The Tuesday supper was the only formal meal served to the residents, although Jim DeMint could be found most mornings making his way downstairs, in pajama bottoms and T-shirt, to fetch his breakfast of tea, Oreos, and dried cranberries. The mens private quarters were strikingly modest. Stupak had one of the better rooms, a corner space on the third floor, with a private bath, but DeMint slept in a space just big enough for his bed, and hung his clothes in a closet down the hall."

Jaime Fuller

Associate Editor
_The American Prospect_


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

In case you didn't read all - or any - of the preceding message:

Craig Mazin, Ted Cruz's roommate: "I would rather have anybody else be the president of the United States. Anyone. I would rather pick somebody from the phone book."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

A wonderful thing happened on Fox. See it at


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> A wonderful thing happened on Fox. See it at
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In case you didn't read all - or any - of the preceding message:
> 
> Craig Mazin, Ted Cruz's roommate: "I would rather have anybody else be the president of the United States. Anyone. I would rather pick somebody from the phone book."


That really says something doesn't it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That really says something doesn't it?


The guy who once lived with him ought to know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, he forgets who he works for and acts like a real journalist once in a while. Good for him, and thanks for posting.


Still, I wonder how he gets to keep his job there. Might he be Roger Ailes brother-in-law?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Still, I wonder how he gets to keep his job there. Might he be Roger Ailes brother-in-law?


Do people still walk on eggshells around the token?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Do people still walk on eggshells around the token?


Didn't they also have Alan West (sp?) there?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Didn't they also have Alan West (sp?) there?


Oh goodness, he would fit right in.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh goodness, he would fit right in.


I did a Google search, and these are the first things to show up: Fox's Allen West Rewarded With Airtime After Calling President Obama A "Vile And Disgusting Racist"
Media Matters for America (blog) ‎- 7 hours ago

Fox News hosted contributor Allen West the day after he smeared President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder as "the most vile and ...

Fox News' Allen West Calls Obama And Holder 'Vile And Disgusting Racists'
News Hounds‎ - 6 hours ago


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I did a Google search, and these are the first things to show up: Fox's Allen West Rewarded With Airtime After Calling President Obama A "Vile And Disgusting Racist"
> Media Matters for America (blog) ‎- 7 hours ago
> 
> Fox News hosted contributor Allen West the day after he smeared President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder as "the most vile and ...
> ...


Someone at FOX has the whole reward for certain behaviors thing figured out, eh?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Someone at FOX has the whole reward for certain behaviors thing figured out, eh?


It's like training dogs.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's like training dogs.


You might be able to remove that second word.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You might be able to remove that second word.


Maybe. But I like thinking of Allen West as a dog who gets a reward every time he slams Obama; for all we know, he's training for a real dog fight.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe. But I like thinking of Allen West as a dog who gets a reward every time he slams Obama; for all we know, he's training for a real dog fight.


That could be, I can see him as a perfect "boxer".


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That could be, I can see him as a perfect "boxer".


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

A 500 skein stash at a nice reasonable average price of $5.per is a hefty investment to have sitting around getting dusty, isn't it?
It seems to be more about shopping than knitting, IMHO.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> A 500 skein stash at a nice reasonable average price of $5.per is a hefty investment to have sitting around getting dusty, isn't it?
> It seems to be more about shopping than knitting, IMHO.


Source, please.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

There's an article on the front page of the NYTimes Business section this morning that could be a follow-up to the work Occupy is doing on behalf of individuals. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/business/as-worker-advocacy-groups-gain-momentum-businesses-fight-back.html?src=me&_r=0

The opening paragraphs are below (I couldn't decide what to cut, so I cut it all off, because it's very long):



New York Times said:


> *Advocates for Workers Raise the Ire of Business*
> By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
> JAN. 16, 2014
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Source, please.


Source for? the price? a guess. 
the number... a thread citing how much people claim that they own/store. 
um, "How much yarn do you have?" paraphrased.
I figured I was being very conservative on the price.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Source for? the price? a guess.
> the number... a thread citing how much people claim that they own/store.
> um, "How much yarn do you have?" paraphrased.
> I figured I was being very conservative on the price.


I just wanted to know what thread you were talking about. I haven't had time to read normal stuff on KP in over a week, thought I'd check out at least one or two other threads.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I just wanted to know what thread you were talking about. I haven't had time to read normal stuff on KP in over a week, thought I'd check out at least one or two other threads.


It is "I'm curious- how many skeins in your stash?"
And you could always read all 17 pages of "do people really hate New Yorkers?"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is "I'm curious- how many skeins in your stash?"
> And you could always read all 17 pages of "do people really hate New Yorkers?"


You know exactly how to pick them for me. Thank you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You know exactly how to pick them for me. Thank you.


A little something to think about, not too controversial...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> A little something to think about, not too controversial...


I went through about half of the NYC thread. The only person who said anything negative about New Yorkers was KnitCrazy, who couldn't handle the sarcasm. Tough!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I went through about half of the NYC thread. The only person who said anything negative about New Yorkers was KnitCrazy, who couldn't handle the sarcasm. Tough!


Did you figure out exactly how much knitters help the economy?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Did you figure out exactly how much knitters help the economy?


No, unless they leave good economic advice on KP. You know, like LL does. That should help the economy.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Earlier today I received a PM from a stranger whose name I have seen on site a few times but have never had an exchage with that made a lasting impression. 
This person said they saw my avatar and agreed. Being the oppositional little soul that I am I responded with a query regarding this members opinion on Kennedy being a traitor. 
He/she said something along the line of not being sure about Kennedy but Obama certainly is. 
Miss the point much? 
I began 3 different responses and then gave up, I figure no reply is probably most appropriate.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Earlier today I received a PM from a stranger whose name I have seen on site a few times but have never had an exchage with that made a lasting impression.
> This person said they saw my avatar and agreed. Being the oppositional little soul that I am I responded with a query regarding this members opinion on Kennedy being a traitor.
> He/she said something along the line of not being sure about Kennedy but Obama certainly is.
> Miss the point much?
> I began 3 different responses and then gave up, I figure no reply is probably most appropriate.


I agree and have done the same thing more than once. Replying to comments like that accomplish nothing at all. How sad that the republicans are still in the same place they were in the early 60's.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I agree and have done the same thing more than once. Replying to comments like that accomplish nothing at all. How sad that the republicans are still in the same place they were in the early 60's.


Yup, those Birchers haven't grown much, don't think much either.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet his mother thought so too.



Poor Purl said:


> In case you didn't read all - or any - of the preceding message:
> 
> Craig Mazin, Ted Cruz's roommate: "I would rather have anybody else be the president of the United States. Anyone. I would rather pick somebody from the phone book."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's time for 'labor' and 'unions' to start getting some respect.



Poor Purl said:


> There's an article on the front page of the NYTimes Business section this morning that could be a follow-up to the work Occupy is doing on behalf of individuals. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/business/as-worker-advocacy-groups-gain-momentum-businesses-fight-back.html?src=me&_r=0
> 
> The opening paragraphs are below (I couldn't decide what to cut, so I cut it all off, because it's very long):


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I bet his mother thought so too.


I suppose every mother loves her son, he is not a very lovable looking person, though.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Earlier today I received a PM from a stranger whose name I have seen on site a few times but have never had an exchage with that made a lasting impression.
> This person said they saw my avatar and agreed. Being the oppositional little soul that I am I responded with a query regarding this members opinion on Kennedy being a traitor.
> He/she said something along the line of not being sure about Kennedy but Obama certainly is.
> Miss the point much?
> I began 3 different responses and then gave up, I figure no reply is probably most appropriate.


Here is someone with no sense of irony. She actually thought somebody would take as an avatar an explicit accusation of the President for treason? What strange people she must know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree and have done the same thing more than once. Replying to comments like that accomplish nothing at all. How sad that the republicans are still in the same place they were in the early 60's.


I guess that's why they call themselves conservatives, but the only thing they're conserving is the dead past.

I don't think I've ever used anything political as an avatar, but I know you have. You're right; you can't pay any attention to people like that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I bet his mother thought so too.


Don't you think she loved her little Teddy? Maybe not; he has the kind of face even a mother couldn't love.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think it's time for 'labor' and 'unions' to start getting some respect.


That time never ended, but business has managed to practically destroy the unions. This new approach is very smart, and apparently the unions support it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

There was an article on an inside page of Friday's NYTimes describing a horrific incident last April in which the police brutally treated a couple in their own home, hurting the man and arresting the woman. The man had recently had heart surgery and wasn't feeling right, so they called 911. The ambulance got there but so did two officers, who seemed not to understand or care what the problem was, handcuffed the man and threw him on the floor. When the woman tried to stop them, they arrested her because "you are never allowed to touch a police officer."

Judging from their picture, and the fact that the man is Swedish, these are two of the whitest people you could imagine, so it wasn't racism at work here. They are also both in their fifties and are both college professors, so they (presumably) knew how to behave. Unless this particular cop is insane, it's hard to see how such a thing could happen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/nyregion/professors-detail-brutal-tangle-with-police.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There was an article on an inside page of Friday's NYTimes describing a horrific incident last April in which the police brutally treated a couple in their own home, hurting the man and arresting the woman. The man had recently had heart surgery and wasn't feeling right, so they called 911. The ambulance got there but so did two officers, who seemed not to understand or care what the problem was, handcuffed the man and threw him on the floor. When the woman tried to stop them, they arrested her because "you are never allowed to touch a police officer."
> 
> Judging from their picture, and the fact that the man is Swedish, these are two of the whitest people you could imagine, so it wasn't racism at work here. They are also both in their fifties and are both college professors, so they (presumably) knew how to behave. Unless this particular cop is insane, it's hard to see how such a thing could happen.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/nyregion/professors-detail-brutal-tangle-with-police.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0


Unfortunately I have personally dealt with police who have the "superior" attitude. I have dealt with many who do not as well, being a nurse and having worked with them. But those who have the attitude ruin for them all.

The latest case was when a police officer felt that being called to a case where a dance studio, over several months and lawyers letters to try to handle it civilly, was keeping several hundreds of dollars of dance costumes and refusing to hand them over, even though they had been paid in full, was "beneath him". He ended up not even hearing what we had to say, just yelling at us from the time he got out of his car, and refusing to answer questions and giving the "mistaken date" of when his supervisor would be available for questions. He gave the date of Easter Sunday because,I think, he was under that silly impression that I wouldn't interrupt my Easter to call. Silly man! His words were that he wouldn't arrest someone over "dance costumes" and he rolled his eyes. Mind you I had already looked up what part of the penal code the studio had violated (I do my homework because I don't want to waste time).

He I think was rather surprised on Monday when Internal Affairs called him because we filed a formal complaint. A complaint in which we mentioned that my mother in law was a nurse for over 40 years, myself for about 14, and my husband an EMT and volunteer firefight for over 15, so we were familiar with civil service and were all appalled. That got their attention.

I hope that this couple does the same things! I can't even imagine the pain that man went through with being slammed on his surgical incision, not to mention that open heart surgery require a cracking open of the sternum. Ouch!! I hope that they file a personal injury suit.

And good for that woman strutting her stuff in front of the building!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Unfortunately I have personally dealt with police who have the "superior" attitude. I have dealt with many who do not as well, being a nurse and having worked with them. But those who have the attitude ruin for them all.
> 
> The latest case was when a police officer felt that being called to a case where a dance studio, over several months and lawyers letters to try to handle it civilly, was keeping several hundreds of dollars of dance costumes and refusing to hand them over, even though they had been paid in full, was "beneath him". He ended up not even hearing what we had to say, just yelling at us from the time he got out of his car, and refusing to answer questions and giving the "mistaken date" of when his supervisor would be available for questions. He gave the date of Easter Sunday because,I think, he was under that silly impression that I wouldn't interrupt my Easter to call. Silly man! His words were that he wouldn't arrest someone over "dance costumes" and he rolled his eyes. Mind you I had already looked up what part of the penal code the studio had violated (I do my homework because I don't want to waste time).
> 
> ...


It sounds to me as though they were both very brave throughout the incident, the incarceration, and the trial. I don't know whether it's a superior attitude or just plain stupidity on the part of the police. DH says it's literally low IQ, since apparently the test they take to get into the police force doesn't screen for intelligence. Whichever it is, they don't seem to have been trained to handle any but crime situations.

Still, they get to carry guns, not a common situation in NY. And apparently they take it into their heads that they can choose where they go and what they do there. On a thread a few weeks ago dealing with school invasions, one woman, a school principal also in NYC, said that a stranger was seen in her school, she called the police, and a few cars were ordered to go to the school. But they didn't show up for nearly an hour because they heard on their radio of another incident that other officers were being sent to and decided to go to that one first. I don't get how they were able to make that decision to ignore their orders, especially with all the school shootings that have happened. They sure didn't use their brains that time.

Did you finally get the costumes from the dance studio?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here is someone with no sense of irony. She actually thought somebody would take as an avatar an explicit accusation of the President for treason? What strange people she must know.


That avatar, if noticed at all, is just the sort of thing that would have me scurrying across the internet to figure out the relationship. I guess if someone is set enough in their position they don't want any input.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think it's time for 'labor' and 'unions' to start getting some respect.


Part of the problem for unions is that they are another institution run by old, white, men who don't want their authority questioned. 
Even the more progressive are run top-> down and are quite patriarchal. The membership feels cut off from the leadership as well as wanting to leave everything up to the leadership. 
I cannot tell you how often I would hear "The union should...the union ought to..." and have to try to explain that a union is only as able as the membership forces it to be through participation. 
It is a vicious cycle in that the leadership is too small and too busy to effectively engage with the people who should be making it run and the membership are too busy trying to live life to push in as they should. 
Of course, people on the outside see the disengagement and think that unions have nothing to offer them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Authority, for some people, breeds contempt. IMHO this is a failure to supervise, management problem. This behavior should have been identified and weeded out much earlier.



Poor Purl said:


> There was an article on an inside page of Friday's NYTimes describing a horrific incident last April in which the police brutally treated a couple in their own home, hurting the man and arresting the woman. The man had recently had heart surgery and wasn't feeling right, so they called 911. The ambulance got there but so did two officers, who seemed not to understand or care what the problem was, handcuffed the man and threw him on the floor. When the woman tried to stop them, they arrested her because "you are never allowed to touch a police officer."
> 
> Judging from their picture, and the fact that the man is Swedish, these are two of the whitest people you could imagine, so it wasn't racism at work here. They are also both in their fifties and are both college professors, so they (presumably) knew how to behave. Unless this particular cop is insane, it's hard to see how such a thing could happen.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/nyregion/professors-detail-brutal-tangle-with-police.html?ref=nyregion&_r=0


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Authority, for some people, breeds contempt. IMHO this is a failure to supervise, management problem. This behavior should have been identified and weeded out much earlier.


A great deal of the problem is also the "no snitch" attitude that is everywhere, it seems. 
Many of the military personnel being swept up in that nuclear component scandal were not directly involved they just protected their compatriots. Our heroes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That avatar, if noticed at all, is just the sort of thing that would have me scurrying across the internet to figure out the relationship. I guess if someone is set enough in their position they don't want any input.


Of course not. If a belief is not based on truth, any input would upset it. Believers never allow that to happen.

The avatar could have been more explicit if MLK rather than JFK had been in the other picture. This woman wouldn't even have questioned that part of the message.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Part of the problem for unions is that they are another institution run by old, white, men who don't want their authority questioned.
> Even the more progressive are run top-> down and are quite patriarchal. The membership feels cut off from the leadership as well as wanting to leave everything up to the leadership.
> I cannot tell you how often I would hear "The union should...the union ought to..." and have to try to explain that a union is only as able as the membership forces it to be through participation.
> It is a vicious cycle in that the leadership is too small and too busy to effectively engage with the people who should be making it run and the membership are too busy trying to live life to push in as they should.
> Of course, people on the outside see the disengagement and think that unions have nothing to offer them.


What an interesting history you've had.

Probably not in Massachusetts, but in a lot of "conservative" state people have been scared away from unions by threats from management. With jobs being a scarcity, that threat is very real. This economic inequality we're going through would be a lot worse without organized labor.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Authority, for some people, breeds contempt. IMHO this is a failure to supervise, management problem. This behavior should have been identified and weeded out much earlier.


I think the article mentioned that the worse of the officers was supported by his superior. The behavior may have been identified and encouraged earlier.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> A great deal of the problem is also the "no snitch" attitude that is everywhere, it seems.
> Many of the military personnel being swept up in that nuclear component scandal were not directly involved they just protected their compatriots. Our heroes.


Oh, yes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Missed that, but there's the answer. IMHO all should go. The police force is not the place for them all.



Poor Purl said:


> I think the article mentioned that the worse of the officers was supported by his superior. The behavior may have been identified and encouraged earlier.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him? 
Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Missed that, but there's the answer. IMHO all should go. The police force is not the place for them all.


You'd think so, but this is where so many of them congregate. They're supposed to be protecting us, but who will protect us from them?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I had a strong feeling that there was more to the situation when I saw the color of Christie's face as he 'explained.'



NJG said:


> Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him?
> Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We have to do it ourselves....not let it die.....show that this is unacceptable to the majority.



Poor Purl said:


> You'd think so, but this is where so many of them congregate. They're supposed to be protecting us, but who will protect us from them?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him?
> Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


Around here we are loving it. It's nice to see a bully get his comeuppance. Thanks for the link - I watch almost no TV news, so I'd never have seen this.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Around here we are loving it. It's nice to see a bully get his comeuppance. Thanks for the link - I watch almost no TV news, so I'd never have seen this.


If you get a chance watch Rachel Maddow. She has done some awesome reporting on Christie too.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him?
> Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


Yes, I did. What happened in Hoboken is very interesting--and certainly explains why a city that was 80% underwater got only a bit more than $300,000 of the Sandy recovery money. I wouldn't be at all surprised if other, similar, stories begin to surface. It seems that this thing just keeps getting bigger.

And it's sad. For a while I could see myself voting for Christie for president due to his bipartisan approach. Then his bullying began to change my mind--just imagine his approach to foreign policy! And now this. The man is scary.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow! Good note taking and the offer to testify under oath and take a lie detector test is the clincher. We all know whose pants will be on fire.

Thanks so much for posting this. It will probably take a few days to come out to all.



NJG said:


> Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him?
> Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What an interesting history you've had.
> 
> Probably not in Massachusetts, but in a lot of "conservative" state people have been scared away from unions by threats from management. With jobs being a scarcity, that threat is very real. This economic inequality we're going through would be a lot worse without organized labor.


That most definitely happens everywhere, Massachusetts does still have a pretty vocal and active union presence. I am sure that the pressure is worse in very conservative states and, of course, right to work states especially make it harder.
Walmart being sued, for firing activists,by the NLRB is a great boost. Even though it will probably take 7 years or so to be resolved; that the gov't is even acting on employees behalf will give heart to many.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Has anyone been paying close attention to the Christie scandal? I have been paying very close attention and loving every second of it and wishing it would move faster. Is there something wrong with me that I am enjoying seeing him get what he has coming to him?
> Did you watch MSNBC this morning, Up With Steve Kornacki? If not take a look at this and I would bet there is a lot more to come out yet.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mayor-christie-camp-held-sandy-money-hostage


The only trouble is that as recently as the beginning of this week, I think, that same Mayor Zimmer was going much gentler and saying that the rising scandal made her have second thoughts about what happened so it is a bit difficult for her to come out more assertively at this stage and adamant about the motives.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The only trouble is that as recently as the beginning of this week, I think, that same Mayor Zimmer was going much gentler and saying that the rising scandal made her have second thoughts about what happened so it is a bit difficult for her to come out more assertively at this stage and adamant about the motives.


I don't think so. I think everyone that had to deal with Christie walked on a tight rope, trying to be careful about what they could say and not say and wondering how he would retaliate if they said the wrong thing. I think they are starting to come out of the wood work now, and are beginning to believe that since it is now more out in the open, that he has maybe lost some of his power. I don't think we have heard the last of these stories.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wow! Good note taking and the offer to testify under oath and take a lie detector test is the clincher. We all know whose pants will be on fire.
> 
> Thanks so much for posting this. It will probably take a few days to come out to all.


It should definitely be part of the federal investigation about the relief funds.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> If you get a chance watch Rachel Maddow. She has done some awesome reporting on Christie too.


I do watch Maddow; I get her podcast every day (if I'm watching a podcast, I'm not really watching TV). She's been relentless on this subject. Yay, her!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Wow! Good note taking and the offer to testify under oath and take a lie detector test is the clincher. We all know whose pants will be on fire.
> 
> Thanks so much for posting this. It will probably take a few days to come out to all.


And a few days for the pants-fire to go out.

(I need to confess: I hate fat-jokes. For the most part, they're not funny, just cruel. But if Christie's or Limbaugh's is the butt of the joke, it's funny to me.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That most definitely happens everywhere, Massachusetts does still have a pretty vocal and active union presence. I am sure that the pressure is worse in very conservative states and, of course, right to work states especially make it harder.
> Walmart being sued, for firing activists,by the NLRB is a great boost. Even though it will probably take 7 years or so to be resolved; that the gov't is even acting on employees behalf will give heart to many.


After the Bush years, during which the NLRB was reduced to a skeleton staff, it feels like a miracle.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> We have to do it ourselves....not let it die.....show that this is unacceptable to the majority.


There's a story in today's NYTimes that really shows some police as just not thinking.

A young man with "brittle bones," for which he needs to be in a wheelchair, had about $5,000 stolen from him at the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He saw the man who grabbed his wallet off his lap, and was able to identify him to police. They were very nice, and even thoughtful, at the police station, but a snowstorm was expected that evening (Jan. 1) and he was afraid to go home to Brooklyn on his own. They tried to get him transportation, but couldn't locate a wheelchair-access vehicle, so one officer walked him to the closest accessible subway station and left him there to find his way home. He managed to navigate the subway system, but he still needed to take a bus to get to his building. It was snowing heavily by then, and while waiting in the bus shelter he realized that no bus was coming. Eventually his finger and toes were nearly frozen, and the snow was so deep now he couldn't get his wheelchair out, so he dialled 911 and an ambulance came and took him to a hospital, where they kept him overnight and sent him home safely.

Who would take a person in that condition, in that weather, only as far as the nearest subway and walk away? Not even call to check whether everything was okay? It's not a matter of cruelty or superiority; it's just pure stupidity that would allow someone to do this.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a story in today's NYTimes that really shows some police as just not thinking.
> 
> A young man with "brittle bones," for which he needs to be in a wheelchair, had about $5,000 stolen from him at the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He saw the man who grabbed his wallet off his lap, and was able to identify him to police. They were very nice, and even thoughtful, at the police station, but a snowstorm was expected that evening (Jan. 1) and he was afraid to go home to Brooklyn on his own. They tried to get him transportation, but couldn't locate a wheelchair-access vehicle, so one officer walked him to the closest accessible subway station and left him there to find his way home. He managed to navigate the subway system, but he still needed to take a bus to get to his building. It was snowing heavily by then, and while waiting in the bus shelter he realized that no bus was coming. Eventually his finger and toes were nearly frozen, and the snow was so deep now he couldn't get his wheelchair out, so he dialled 911 and an ambulance came and took him to a hospital, where they kept him overnight and sent him home safely.
> 
> Who would take a person in that condition, in that weather, only as far as the nearest subway and walk away? Not even call to check whether everything was okay? It's not a matter of cruelty or superiority; it's just pure stupidity that would allow someone to do this.


Uncaring, flaming A******s

The last four asterisks are w i p e


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Uncaring, flaming A******s
> 
> The last four asterisks are w i p e


I don't think they were uncaring; just completely thoughtless. I do agree with your asterisks.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think they were uncaring; just completely thoughtless. I do agree with your asterisks.


I would have expected that NYC and the boroughs would have really good transportation.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Gotta love those republicans, NOT.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/24/1149395/-GOP-Rape-Advisory-Chart-h-t-to-connecticutie?detail=email


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I posted something about this guy before, Dick Black from Virginia, but here are some words straight from his mouth. He fits the republican pattern so well.

For those of you who haven't heard of him yet, we present Republican state Sen. "Dick" Black, who wants to be Virginia's newest member of Congress because, well, gawd only knows.

Black opposed making spousal rape a crime, citing the impossibility of convicting a husband accused of raping his wife "when they're living together, sleeping in the same bed, she's in a nightie, and so forth." [...]

Black invited a TV reporter to film him using a library terminal to watch violent rape porn. [...]

[He] called military rape "as predictable as human nature." "Think of yourself at 25," Black told a newspaper in 1996. "Wouldn't you love to have a group of 19-year-old girls under your control, day in, day out?" [...]

The 1999 massacre at Columbine High School, for example, inspired Black to suggest legislation requiring Virginia students to address their teachers as "Ma'am," "Sir," "Mr.," "Ms.," or "Mrs.," because, Black explained, "The counterculture revolution of the '70s took the war into the classroom. Before that time, public schools were a model of decorum, and then we began this thing we've seen play out at Columbine." [...]

Black tried to pass legislation preventing same-sex couples to apply for low-interest home loans from the Virginia Housing and Development Authority. The current policy, he explained, "subsidize sodomy and adultery." [...]


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Gotta love those republicans, NOT.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/24/1149395/-GOP-Rape-Advisory-Chart-h-t-to-connecticutie?detail=email


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would have expected that NYC and the boroughs would have really good transportation.


Not _that_ good. Bloomberg was only our mayor, not our financier.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not _that_ good. Bloomberg was only our mayor, not our financier.


Good thing, probably, after I see that deal about tracking public employees' hours or workplace integrity. 
His interest rates are most likely off the charts.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

They just added something on Acorn to the spending bill they are working on now and it has been out of business now for 4 years. There was something else really weird too, but forgot what it was. They are nuts.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Re table of GOP-proposed legislation:

None of it was surprising. All of it was angry-making.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> They just added something on Acorn to the spending bill they are working on now and it has been out of business now for 4 years. There was something else really weird too, but forgot what it was. They are nuts.


I saw that. They managed to demonize Acorn back then, so why throw away a good thing?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> They just added something on Acorn to the spending bill they are working on now and it has been out of business now for 4 years. There was something else really weird too, but forgot what it was. They are nuts.


Yes, I heard that the other night. There were 2 items that were ridiculous... ACORN (which I loved) and another that was equally outdated.

So much of this is all the same, time wasting, wear you down, silliness. 
This "prolife" lawsuit in Massachusetts about the 35 foot "barrier" to patient contact. That 35 feet at one of the clinics is the distance from the sidewalk to the door which makes that private property and off limits anyway. 
The attorney for one of the main proponents was on the radio the other day explaining that his client is a grandmother so we know that butter would melt in her mouth, right?
Just like in mine...


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It sounds to me as though they were both very brave throughout the incident, the incarceration, and the trial. I don't know whether it's a superior attitude or just plain stupidity on the part of the police. DH says it's literally low IQ, since apparently the test they take to get into the police force doesn't screen for intelligence. Whichever it is, they don't seem to have been trained to handle any but crime situations.
> 
> Still, they get to carry guns, not a common situation in NY. And apparently they take it into their heads that they can choose where they go and what they do there. On a thread a few weeks ago dealing with school invasions, one woman, a school principal also in NYC, said that a stranger was seen in her school, she called the police, and a few cars were ordered to go to the school. But they didn't show up for nearly an hour because they heard on their radio of another incident that other officers were being sent to and decided to go to that one first. I don't get how they were able to make that decision to ignore their orders, especially with all the school shootings that have happened. They sure didn't use their brains that time.
> 
> Did you finally get the costumes from the dance studio?


I think part of the problem too is that they are trained to resort to guns. It gives them the "bad ass" feeling. I really wish that we could send our officers to the England to learn how to be a law enforcer and peace keeper without resorting to violence. Their regular police don't carry guns, they have to send for the special squad.

We did end up getting most, but many were damaged. We tried contacting the district attorney (the officer was forced by his superior officers to submit the report to them), but she never returned any calls and refused to make an appointment at her "private office" for it. We were very unhappy with that. But then the dance studio ended up moving to a warehouse. It is right next to a car repair shop (it is in the next town over, the one I grew up in so I new all the places). We just settled with the satisfaction of knowing they fell so far  
They also run away from us whenever they see us in the grocery store, lol. Apparently they have learned I may be a pacifist, but you never mess with my kids, lol.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I think part of the problem too is that they are trained to resort to guns. It gives them the "bad ass" feeling. I really wish that we could send our officers to the England to learn how to be a law enforcer and peace keeper without resorting to violence. Their regular police don't carry guns, they have to send for the special squad.
> 
> We did end up getting most, but many were damaged. We tried contacting the district attorney (the officer was forced by his superior officers to submit the report to them), but she never returned any calls and refused to make an appointment at her "private office" for it. We were very unhappy with that. But then the dance studio ended up moving to a warehouse. It is right next to a car repair shop (it is in the next town over, the one I grew up in so I new all the places). We just settled with the satisfaction of knowing they fell so far
> They also run away from us whenever they see us in the grocery store, lol. Apparently they have learned I may be a pacifist, but you never mess with my kids, lol.


Honestly, LKholcomb, trips to foreign countries or even the next county are not necessary. When I was working with potentially violent individuals I had to go through training on a annual basis to first learn and then refresh on de-escalating situations that were getting out of control, well really to spot them before they even started. I am sure your husband must do something similar. I preferred working with behaviorally challenged individuals so it was a priority for me and those I worked with, but, even those who worked with folks who weren't capable of striking out had to train. 
Cops could certainly and should certainly have some of that training. FGS, we have hundreds of thousands of under treated people with mental illness on the streets. Killing them all is really NOT an option.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I think part of the problem too is that they are trained to resort to guns. It gives them the "bad ass" feeling. I really wish that we could send our officers to the England to learn how to be a law enforcer and peace keeper without resorting to violence. Their regular police don't carry guns, they have to send for the special squad.
> 
> We did end up getting most, but many were damaged. We tried contacting the district attorney (the officer was forced by his superior officers to submit the report to them), but she never returned any calls and refused to make an appointment at her "private office" for it. We were very unhappy with that. But then the dance studio ended up moving to a warehouse. It is right next to a car repair shop (it is in the next town over, the one I grew up in so I new all the places). We just settled with the satisfaction of knowing they fell so far
> They also run away from us whenever they see us in the grocery store, lol. Apparently they have learned I may be a pacifist, but you never mess with my kids, lol.


Pacifist you may be, but you have just shown that you're not a patriot. England has nothing to teach us. We are exceptional, whatever that means.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a story in today's NYTimes that really shows some police as just not thinking.
> 
> A young man with "brittle bones," for which he needs to be in a wheelchair, had about $5,000 stolen from him at the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He saw the man who grabbed his wallet off his lap, and was able to identify him to police. They were very nice, and even thoughtful, at the police station, but a snowstorm was expected that evening (Jan. 1) and he was afraid to go home to Brooklyn on his own. They tried to get him transportation, but couldn't locate a wheelchair-access vehicle, so one officer walked him to the closest accessible subway station and left him there to find his way home. He managed to navigate the subway system, but he still needed to take a bus to get to his building. It was snowing heavily by then, and while waiting in the bus shelter he realized that no bus was coming. Eventually his finger and toes were nearly frozen, and the snow was so deep now he couldn't get his wheelchair out, so he dialled 911 and an ambulance came and took him to a hospital, where they kept him overnight and sent him home safely.
> 
> Who would take a person in that condition, in that weather, only as far as the nearest subway and walk away? Not even call to check whether everything was okay? It's not a matter of cruelty or superiority; it's just pure stupidity that would allow someone to do this.


The same type of people who came up with the rule that if someone is homeless and comes to the ER when discharging them all you need to do is give them a list of homeless shelters is the city. Not anything about making sure they had a way to get there or anything. I always felt horrible when I had to do it, especially when you know there aren't any shelters on that side of the city. But our hands were tied as the nurses. We had to follow the rules (not sure now that I'm older I would to be honest, I might refuse to discharge them.... I've grown more balls as I've gotten older).


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would have expected that NYC and the boroughs would have really good transportation.


Not in the subway. When we were there, the first time I nearly died going up all the stairs because silly me thought that they would have an elevator for those people who were disabled. Nope, because the subway was grandfathered in with the disability act. So some have handicapped access, and some don't. Trying to find one near your destination wasn't easy either. The second time we went we used the subway twice, but the rest of the time had to take a cab. It must be horrible trying to get a cab in a wheelchair.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Honestly, LKholcomb, trips to foreign countries or even the next county are not necessary. When I was working with potentially violent individuals I had to go through training on a annual basis to first learn and then refresh on de-escalating situations that were getting out of control, well really to spot them before they even started. I am sure your husband must do something similar. I preferred working with behaviorally challenged individuals so it was a priority for me and those I worked with, but, even those who worked with folks who weren't capable of striking out had to train.
> Cops could certainly and should certainly have some of that training. FGS, we have hundreds of thousands of under treated people with mental illness on the streets. Killing them all is really NOT an option.


Yes, I've gone through the training too and my husband does every year. Yet every time I bring it up to the pro violent police people they feel the need to tell me that it's not the same. Because somehow its not the same crazy homicidal person who dumped gasoline on himself and threatened to light himself and the block on fire that they bring to the hospital for clearance before jail or admittance to the psych hospital. Nooooooo, the one they bring in is just a little purring kitten. :roll: So I've taken to saying the police training in other countries because then they can't say that it's "just not the same".


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Pacifist you may be, but you have just shown that you're not a patriot. England has nothing to teach us. We are exceptional, whatever that means.


Oh no! You've found me out! :lol:

I'm voting that we are a nation of exceptional crazies, but that's just me


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Not in the subway. When we were there, the first time I nearly died going up all the stairs because silly me thought that they would have an elevator for those people who were disabled. Nope, because the subway was grandfathered in with the disability act. So some have handicapped access, and some don't. Trying to find one near your destination wasn't easy either. The second time we went we used the subway twice, but the rest of the time had to take a cab. It must be horrible trying to get a cab in a wheelchair.


The man in the story knew where all the wheelchair accessible subway stations are. Every time a station has significant construction done, an elevator is required to be installed. And there's the Access-a-Ride system, privately owned ambulette companies contracted by the transit authority to provide service for the diabled. The passenger pays the normal fare ($2.25), and transit pays the rest (about $60). But you can't call them at the last minute - they need a day's notice. And most buses have ramps or wheelchair lifts. There are even some accessible taxis, but they're not easy to find.

None of that is any good, though, when it's snowing and nothing is running.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Oh no! You've found me out! :lol:
> 
> I'm voting that we are a nation of exceptional crazies, but that's just me


It sure looks that way, between the NRA and the NSA.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Not in the subway. When we were there, the first time I nearly died going up all the stairs because silly me thought that they would have an elevator for those people who were disabled. Nope, because the subway was grandfathered in with the disability act. So some have handicapped access, and some don't. Trying to find one near your destination wasn't easy either. The second time we went we used the subway twice, but the rest of the time had to take a cab. It must be horrible trying to get a cab in a wheelchair.


I was thinking more about public transportation for folks with handicaps, here in Mass we have The RIDE. 
http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/accessible_services/default.asp?id=7108


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The man in the story knew where all the wheelchair accessible subway stations are. Every time a station has significant construction done, an elevator is required to be installed. And there's the Access-a-Ride system, privately owned ambulette companies contracted by the transit authority to provide service for the diabled. The passenger pays the normal fare ($2.25), and transit pays the rest (about $60). But you can't call them at the last minute - they need a day's notice. And most buses have ramps or wheelchair lifts. There are even some accessible taxis, but they're not easy to find.
> 
> None of that is any good, though, when it's snowing and nothing is running.


Right, but you would think that if the police are calling for assistance it might make a difference.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Right, but you would think that if the police are calling for assistance it might make a difference.


Hey, lady, this is America. If you don't want to go out in the snow, you don't go. I doubt that the NYPD would have the money to pay for such transportation, and I'm certain the operators don't do anything just because it's the right thing to do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Pacifist you may be, but you have just shown that you're not a patriot. England has nothing to teach us. We are exceptional, whatever that means.


We are exceptional, this individualistic fervor that we "share", isn't that funny?
That is exceptionally deceptive.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Hey, lady, this is America. If you don't want to go out in the snow, you don't go. I doubt that the NYPD would have the money to pay for such transportation, and I'm certain the operators don't do anything just because it's the right thing to do.


More privatization.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Arizona is a conservative right to work state. Ruffles my feathers a lot.



Janet Cooke said:


> That most definitely happens everywhere, Massachusetts does still have a pretty vocal and active union presence. I am sure that the pressure is worse in very conservative states and, of course, right to work states especially make it harder.
> Walmart being sued, for firing activists,by the NLRB is a great boost. Even though it will probably take 7 years or so to be resolved; that the gov't is even acting on employees behalf will give heart to many.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There is strength in numbers. I have hope.



NJG said:


> I don't think so. I think everyone that had to deal with Christie walked on a tight rope, trying to be careful about what they could say and not say and wondering how he would retaliate if they said the wrong thing. I think they are starting to come out of the wood work now, and are beginning to believe that since it is now more out in the open, that he has maybe lost some of his power. I don't think we have heard the last of these stories.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And a few days for the pants-fire to go out.
> 
> (I need to confess: I hate fat-jokes. For the most part, they're not funny, just cruel. But if Christie's or Limbaugh's is the butt of the joke, it's funny to me.)


Butt butt, chicken butt. (Old neighborhood battle cry.)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For once, I don't know what to say.



Poor Purl said:


> There's a story in today's NYTimes that really shows some police as just not thinking.
> 
> A young man with "brittle bones," for which he needs to be in a wheelchair, had about $5,000 stolen from him at the Port Authority Bus Terminal. He saw the man who grabbed his wallet off his lap, and was able to identify him to police. They were very nice, and even thoughtful, at the police station, but a snowstorm was expected that evening (Jan. 1) and he was afraid to go home to Brooklyn on his own. They tried to get him transportation, but couldn't locate a wheelchair-access vehicle, so one officer walked him to the closest accessible subway station and left him there to find his way home. He managed to navigate the subway system, but he still needed to take a bus to get to his building. It was snowing heavily by then, and while waiting in the bus shelter he realized that no bus was coming. Eventually his finger and toes were nearly frozen, and the snow was so deep now he couldn't get his wheelchair out, so he dialled 911 and an ambulance came and took him to a hospital, where they kept him overnight and sent him home safely.
> 
> Who would take a person in that condition, in that weather, only as far as the nearest subway and walk away? Not even call to check whether everything was okay? It's not a matter of cruelty or superiority; it's just pure stupidity that would allow someone to do this.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Uncaring, flaming A******s
> 
> The last four asterisks are w i p e


Wheel of Fortune?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wheel of Fortune?


HAHAHAA, or misfortune.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Yes, I've gone through the training too and my husband does every year. Yet every time I bring it up to the pro violent police people they feel the need to tell me that it's not the same. Because somehow its not the same crazy homicidal person who dumped gasoline on himself and threatened to light himself and the block on fire that they bring to the hospital for clearance before jail or admittance to the psych hospital. Nooooooo, the one they bring in is just a little purring kitten. :roll: So I've taken to saying the police training in other countries because then they can't say that it's "just not the same".


Welllllllllllll, they don't have gas cans in England, you know. 
They are petrol cannisters. Not the same thing at all. 
We have become a nation of shoot first and ask ???? later, it is breaking my heart. 
That could be anybody's child and it is SOMEBODY's baby.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

More things coming out about Christie.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1271875/-Meet-the-mother-of-ten-that-Christie-smeared?detail=email

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1271875/-Meet-the-mother-of-ten-that-Christie-smeared?detail=email

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1272024/-Christie-Quietly-Fires-Biggest-Sandy-politically-connected-Contractor?detail=email


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Another wingnut on the right.

Susanne Atanus is one of the Illinois Republicans attempting to unseat Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky this year. She is not going to be of any particular help to the ol' rebranding effort.

"I am a conservative Republican and I believe in God first," Atanus said. She said she believes God controls the weather and has put tornadoes and diseases such as autism and dementia on earth as punishment for gay rights and legalized abortions.

"God is angry. We are provoking him with abortions and same-sex marriage and civil unions," she said. "Same-sex activity is going to increase AIDS. If it's in our military it will weaken our military. We need to respect God."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It just gets curiouser and curiouser.



NJG said:


> More things coming out about Christie.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1271875/-Meet-the-mother-of-ten-that-Christie-smeared?detail=email
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know what to say. It's best if this stands alone.



NJG said:


> Another wingnut on the right.
> 
> Susanne Atanus is one of the Illinois Republicans attempting to unseat Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky this year. She is not going to be of any particular help to the ol' rebranding effort.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> More things coming out about Christie.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/23/1271875/-Meet-the-mother-of-ten-that-Christie-smeared?detail=email
> 
> ...


The comments to that last story are really good.

Q: How are 43 (a prime number) and 2016 alike?

A: Chris Christie won't factor in either one of them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I wonder whether God believes in her.


NJG said:


> Another wingnut on the right.
> 
> Susanne Atanus is one of the Illinois Republicans attempting to unseat Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky this year. She is not going to be of any particular help to the ol' rebranding effort.
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Another wingnut on the right.
> 
> Susanne Atanus is one of the Illinois Republicans attempting to unseat Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky this year. She is not going to be of any particular help to the ol' rebranding effort.
> 
> ...


It seems when they have nothing else to run on, it's back to the old fear mongering trick. What I don't understand is why and how they feel they are being prevented from worshiping their God. Have their churches been burned down? Have they been persecuted for worshiping their God?
I know I haven't. We are a democracy not run by theology.I saw in another thread that abortion is the reason for the "downfall" of our society. That it causes all of these other things that go wrong in the country. How??


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> It just gets curiouser and curiouser.


Through the Looking Glass might be a good reread.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Through the Looking Glass might be a good reread.


I love that book and often wonder if some republicans have eaten some of those magic mushrooms to come up with the irrational thinking that they do.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I don't know what to say. It's best if this stands alone.


As in the cheese stands alone, dame??


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It seems when they have nothing else to run on, it's back to the old fear mongering trick. What I don't understand is why and how they feel they are being prevented from worshiping their God. Have their churches been burned down? Have they been persecuted for worshiping their God?
> I know I haven't. We are a democracy not run by theology.I saw in another thread that abortion is the reason for the "downfall" of our society. That it causes all of these other things that go wrong in the country. How??


The way same-sex marriage causes problems with traditional marriage: not at all.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The way same-sex marriage causes problems with traditional marriage: not at all.


I liked what Pope Francis had to say on the matter of same sex marriages. "Don't judge". Plain and simple.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I wonder whether God believes in her.


You are on a roll.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That is exactly what I was thinking.



BrattyPatty said:


> As in the cheese stands alone, dame??


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But same sex marriage discussion prevents us from considering important issues.

"Don't look behind the curtain." the Wizard of OZ.



Poor Purl said:


> The way same-sex marriage causes problems with traditional marriage: not at all.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> Another wingnut on the right.
> 
> Susanne Atanus is one of the Illinois Republicans attempting to unseat Democratic Rep. Jan Schakowsky this year. She is not going to be of any particular help to the ol' rebranding effort.
> 
> ...


Come on you made this woman up........or did you? I have heard from some Christians that God is benevolent. Guess she is hankeering for a time past.............ohhhh that is right the conservatives like the nasty repressive good ole days.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> But same sex marriage discussion prevents us from considering important issues.
> 
> "Don't look behind the curtain." the Wizard of OZ.


LOL, yeah yeah, let's not let equality get in the way of the important stuff.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think of it in terms of using hot button issues such as gay marriage etc to prevent voters from discussing important issues.



Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, yeah yeah, let's not let equality get in the way of the important stuff.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think of it in terms of using hot button issues such as gay marriage etc to prevent voters from discussing important issues.


I do agree, and I think that is why the goons who work and socialize in diversity use those topics with the ignorant, without equality where are we? And why don't they see the handwriting on the wall now that the courts are on board?

I continue to think that we have just too many people and too many divergent viewpoints to accomplish much that is truly helpful. 
Earlier today I provided the figures for someone about workplace deaths and injuries... accidents will happen was the response. LOL, you can imagine what I wanted to say. 
What are we preserving when men and women can't go to work and count on the very entities we created to monitor workplace safety to keep them safe because it costs too much money?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I do agree, and I think that is why the goons who work and socialize in diversity use those topics with the ignorant, without equality where are we? And why don't they see the handwriting on the wall now that the courts are on board?
> 
> I continue to think that we have just too many people and too many divergent viewpoints to accomplish much that is truly helpful.
> Earlier today I provided the figures for someone about workplace deaths and injuries... accidents will happen was the response. LOL, you can imagine what I wanted to say.
> What are we preserving when men and women can't go to work and count on the very entities we created to monitor workplace safety to keep them safe because it costs too much money?


Some folks do not want reality and facts to mess up their fuzzy thinking.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I do agree, and I think that is why the goons who work and socialize in diversity use those topics with the ignorant, without equality where are we? And why don't they see the handwriting on the wall now that the courts are on board?
> 
> I continue to think that we have just too many people and too many divergent viewpoints to accomplish much that is truly helpful.
> Earlier today I provided the figures for someone about workplace deaths and injuries... accidents will happen was the response. LOL, you can imagine what I wanted to say.
> What are we preserving when men and women can't go to work and count on the very entities we created to monitor workplace safety to keep them safe because it costs too much money?


Simple answer: make it cost more for corporations for these accidents. Health care and disability for life for those affected? Punitive damages? Full cleanup? Money is the only language they speak.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

damemary said:


> Simple answer: make it cost more for corporations for these accidents. Health care and disability for life for those affected? Punitive damages? Full cleanup? Money is the only language they speak.


You know all this with spills has me remembering something. My dad worked at Kodak when I was little (he actually started there the same year I was born). My husband knew firefighters there and I knew some other people. But every so often they would have "accidental" leaks into the lake or river. They did this officially, but unofficially, if you catch my drift. They did it because it was cheaper for them to dump the chemicals into the river than it was to dispose of them properly. What is wrong with this picture?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Simple answer: make it cost more for corporations for these accidents. Health care and disability for life for those affected? Punitive damages? Full cleanup? Money is the only language they speak.


Honestly, I think we should go beyond that and attach jail time. They are killing people or putting people in danger of death, seems like criminal neglect at the least to me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Proving corporations will do anything they can get away with. IMHO



Lkholcomb said:


> You know all this with spills has me remembering something. My dad worked at Kodak when I was little (he actually started there the same year I was born). My husband knew firefighters there and I knew some other people. But every so often they would have "accidental" leaks into the lake or river. They did this officially, but unofficially, if you catch my drift. They did it because it was cheaper for them to dump the chemicals into the river than it was to dispose of them properly. What is wrong with this picture?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds good to me.



Janet Cooke said:


> Honestly, I think we should go beyond that and attach jail time. They are killing people or putting people in danger of death, seems like criminal neglect at the least to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Honestly, I think we should go beyond that and attach jail time. They are killing people or putting people in danger of death, seems like criminal neglect at the least to me.


If corporations get the privileges of citizenship, they should also get the penalties. But who's going to make them pay? Certainly not the politicians whose campaigns they pay for. The BP nightmare killed 11 people practically in front of our eyes, but here they are, still digging.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This is a letter to the editor in today's Wall Street Journal. See how long it takes LL to copy and paste it somewhere.

*Progressive Kristallnacht Coming?*
Jan. 24, 2014 4:49 p.m. ET

Regarding your editorial "Censors on Campus" (Jan. 18): Writing from the epicenter of progressive thought, San Francisco, I would call attention to the parallels of fascist Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich."

From the Occupy movement to the demonization of the rich embedded in virtually every word of our local newspaper, the San Francisco Chronicle, I perceive a rising tide of hatred of the successful one percent. There is outraged public reaction to the Google buses carrying technology workers from the city to the peninsula high-tech companies which employ them. We have outrage over the rising real-estate prices which these "techno geeks" can pay. We have, for example, libelous and cruel attacks in the Chronicle on our number-one celebrity, the author Danielle Steel, alleging that she is a "snob" despite the millions she has spent on our city's homeless and mentally ill over the past decades.

This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendent "progressive" radicalism unthinkable now?

Tom Perkins

San Francisco

Mr. Perkins is a founder of Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sounds good to me.


 :wink:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is a letter to the editor in today's Wall Street Journal. See how long it takes LL to copy and paste it somewhere.
> 
> *Progressive Kristallnacht Coming?*
> Jan. 24, 2014 4:49 p.m. ET
> ...


I can only respond with my favorite commercial ditty
"Sometimes you feel like a nut...".
It is so insulting that these folks claim that they see hatred and yet they are such loving religious souls they hate nobody. 
It is one of those conversation stoppers for me when someone accuses me of hating another with absolutely no evidence of any emotion.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

The SF Chronicle is hardly a bastion of radical thought. It is a toady of the "middlers" not quite republican, but not all progressive.

Also, San Francisco is becoming more and more conservative with a mayor who is ready to sell the city to the biggest corporations with tax breaks etc.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Come on you made this woman up........or did you? I have heard from some Christians that God is benevolent. Guess she is hankeering for a time past.............ohhhh that is right the conservatives like the nasty repressive good ole days.


I wish I were making her up. Just think of all the republicans who agree with her, but are trying to "change their tone and their words" so they , in essence can lie to us. That is the scary part, how many of them really believe this, but try to keep it to them selves.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I wish I were making her up. Just think of all the republicans who agree with her, but are trying to "change their tone and their words" so they , in essence can lie to us. That is the scary part, how many of them really believe this, but try to keep it to them selves.


Yup, Yup. I say keep the nutjobs comin'.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

There are to be three republican responses to the State of the Union Address, Tues night. The Rev says this is what Rand is working on. I don't think I will be able to watch the responses. I will listen to MSNBC afterwards and get the just of them then. 

Sen. Rand Paul tries to defend GOP from war on women claims by resurrecting the Monica Lewinsky scandal

Then he goes on to say this: If there was a war on women, I think they won.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> There are to be three republican responses to the State of the Union Address, Tues night. The Rev says this is what Rand is working on. I don't think I will be able to watch the responses. I will listen to MSNBC afterwards and get the just of them then.
> 
> Sen. Rand Paul tries to defend GOP from war on women claims by resurrecting the Monica Lewinsky scandal
> 
> Then he goes on to say this: If there was a war on women, I think they won.


And again, I say: 
Keep the nutjobs comin'!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I can only respond with my favorite commercial ditty
> "Sometimes you feel like a nut...".
> It is so insulting that these folks claim that they see hatred and yet they are such loving religious souls they hate nobody.
> It is one of those conversation stoppers for me when someone accuses me of hating another with absolutely no evidence of any emotion.


I attribute it to a learning disability called logic and reasoning dysfunction.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The SF Chronicle is hardly a bastion of radical thought. It is a toady of the "middlers" not quite republican, but not all progressive.
> 
> Also, San Francisco is becoming more and more conservative with a mayor who is ready to sell the city to the biggest corporations with tax breaks etc.


We just lost one of those mayors AFTER THREE TERMS. Sheesh.

The Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch,so we know how unprogressive it is.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> You know all this with spills has me remembering something. My dad worked at Kodak when I was little (he actually started there the same year I was born). My husband knew firefighters there and I knew some other people. But every so often they would have "accidental" leaks into the lake or river. They did this officially, but unofficially, if you catch my drift. They did it because it was cheaper for them to dump the chemicals into the river than it was to dispose of them properly. What is wrong with this picture?


I think that is why we had to develop the EPA. They did the same in a small city near my hometown.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that is why we had to develop the EPA. They did the same in a small city near my hometown.


They think what we don't know won't hurt us.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

check out Bill Moyer's newest documentary on the Moral Mondays in North Carolina.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> They think what we don't know won't hurt us.


First of all, who are those beautiful children in your avatar? I'm guessing grandkids.

Second, as to your message: They think that what we don't know won't hurt _them_; they don't care what it does to us. That's why we need penalties on companies that ruin our air, water, and cropland.

GE used to dump PCBs into the Hudson River, which once was a good river for fish, but by the time the govt. got around to studying the pollution the fish were almost gone, and not safe to eat. They stopped dumping in 1977 but it took until 2009 for GE to start cleaning up, and now they've stopped. This is what we're dealing with:


Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) said:


> *THE CLEANUP INDEX*
> 
> Year GE started dumping PCBs in the Hudson: 1947
> 
> ...


Mom and Pop stores have to keep their sidewalks clean or risk fines, but GE jus' keeps rollin' along.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Mom and Pop stores have to keep their sidewalks clean or risk fines, but GE jus' keeps rollin' along.


There are brownfields in several communities in Mass. created by GE. The only gift Jack Welch ever gave his home state. 
I think that one of the entities vying for casino space is pledging to clean up one of those areas if they get the contract for gambling. 
Here's hoping.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Mom and Pop stores have to keep their sidewalks clean or risk fines, but GE jus' keeps rollin' along.


Yes they are my grand children, Maddie will be 6 in April and Tucker just turned 3 this month. I have realized that they are why I became a Mother. Yes, money talks in this world. The 85 richest people in the world have the same wealth as the bottom half of the total population. I think that is mind blowing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello all progressives. I have been away for a while and just beginning to check out the landscape. My dear old Dad passed two days before Christmas and even though he was quite elderly and still living in his own home it took us by surprise and saddened the holidays. Because of the extreme cold this winter his funeral had to be postponed and rescheduled and we won't be having his burial until May 23rd which would have been his 90th birthday. We are planning a celebration that day and here's hoping it will be a nice warm sunny one.
I am thrilled to see all of you out here giving what for to the lunatics on the right. Yes, I do believe they howl at the moon. I have missed you all and will gradually try to catch up with you. I'll be listening to the State of the Union but like you Norma I think I will pass on the GOP rebuttals. They are pathetic at best and I will wait until SNL satirizes them on the weekend along with numerous others. It should be a very easy task as they do most of the work for their detractors making their work so easy. :thumbup:


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that is why we had to develop the EPA. They did the same in a small city near my hometown.


And you will notice that the EPA is under constant attack and criticism by the right.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have noticed that but I have no idea why they would want to put people and our environment at risk without it.



sumpleby said:


> And you will notice that the EPA is under constant attack and criticism by the right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There are brownfields in several communities in Mass. created by GE. The only gift Jack Welch ever gave his home state.
> I think that one of the entities vying for casino space is pledging to clean up one of those areas if they get the contract for gambling.
> Here's hoping.


GE brings good things to life.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all progressives. I have been away for a while and just beginning to check out the landscape. My dear old Dad passed two days before Christmas and even though he was quite elderly and still living in his own home it took us by surprise and saddened the holidays. Because of the extreme cold this winter his funeral had to be postponed and rescheduled and we won't be having his burial until May 23rd which would have been his 90th birthday. We are planning a celebration that day and here's hoping it will be a nice warm sunny one.
> I am thrilled to see all of you out here giving what for to the lunatics on the right. Yes, I do believe they howl at the moon. I have missed you all and will gradually try to catch up with you. I'll be listening to the State of the Union but like you Norma I think I will pass on the GOP rebuttals. They are pathetic at best and I will wait until SNL satirizes them on the weekend along with numerous others. It should be a very easy task as they do most of the work for their detractors making their work so easy. :thumbup:


Welcome back! I'm sorry to hear about your father, but it sounds as though his passing was peaceful, which is a mercy to him and to you.

We've missed you. KPG has missed you. In fact, she thinks that you've been here all along using the name VocalLisa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have noticed that but I have no idea why they would want to put people and our environment at risk without it.


Because the EPA regulates the companies that want to dump filth all over our amber waves of grain and cut the tops off our purple mountains' majesty.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all progressives. I have been away for a while and just beginning to check out the landscape. My dear old Dad passed two days before Christmas and even though he was quite elderly and still living in his own home it took us by surprise and saddened the holidays. Because of the extreme cold this winter his funeral had to be postponed and rescheduled and we won't be having his burial until May 23rd which would have been his 90th birthday. We are planning a celebration that day and here's hoping it will be a nice warm sunny one.
> I am thrilled to see all of you out here giving what for to the lunatics on the right. Yes, I do believe they howl at the moon. I have missed you all and will gradually try to catch up with you. I'll be listening to the State of the Union but like you Norma I think I will pass on the GOP rebuttals. They are pathetic at best and I will wait until SNL satirizes them on the weekend along with numerous others. It should be a very easy task as they do most of the work for their detractors making their work so easy. :thumbup:


So sorry to hear about your Dad. He is at peace now, but I am sure it made for a rough Christmas. Hope you were able to keep your mind on the good memories.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all progressives. I have been away for a while and just beginning to check out the landscape. My dear old Dad passed two days before Christmas and even though he was quite elderly and still living in his own home it took us by surprise and saddened the holidays. Because of the extreme cold this winter his funeral had to be postponed and rescheduled and we won't be having his burial until May 23rd which would have been his 90th birthday. We are planning a celebration that day and here's hoping it will be a nice warm sunny one.
> I am thrilled to see all of you out here giving what for to the lunatics on the right. Yes, I do believe they howl at the moon. I have missed you all and will gradually try to catch up with you. I'll be listening to the State of the Union but like you Norma I think I will pass on the GOP rebuttals. They are pathetic at best and I will wait until SNL satirizes them on the weekend along with numerous others. It should be a very easy task as they do most of the work for their detractors making their work so easy. :thumbup:


Hey there, Cheeky
Such a rotten time of year to lose someone you love, but, there never is a good time. Nice that you had so many years together. 
I cannot wait to hear the rebuttals, and the laughs afterward.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> GE brings good things to life.


And then kills them all off.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Poor Purl wrote:
GE brings good things to life.



Janet Cooke said:


> And then kills them all off.


They keep leaving that second line off their ads.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Just ran across this on Facebook. Too bad that when some one like Santorum starts talking about this subject, that someone from the press can't be smart enough to ask about this and see what the answer is.

The political flap over the Obama Administration decision to require health insurance companies to cover birth control as preventative care continues apace, even after former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) declared it a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be, and his top donor Foster Friess suggested women just put [an aspirin] between their knees and it wasnt that costly.

The fact of the matter is that health insurance covers all manner of things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be, when it comes to men, and no one has any real complaints about insurance coverage that allows men to continue having sex for non-procreative reasons and despite medical conditions that would otherwise prevent it. Most of them are actually far more expensive than hormonal birth control or intrauterine devices, the two methods of contraception that House and Senate Republicans now want all employers to be able to prevent their insurance companies from covering in employee health insurance packages. Five things that health insurers  including, in some cases, the federal government  currently cover for mens reproductive tracts.

1. Erectile dysfunction drugs
From Viagra to Cialis, if a man has trouble getting or maintaining an erection (a common occurrence with age or with certain diseases), a pharmaceutical company has a $15 pill for that. And, in many cases, the mans insurance company picks up the tab.

2. Vacuum erection devices
Famously covered by Medicare (as well as some private insurance companies), men with erectile dysfunction that wont or cant go the pill route do have a another option. Though it first raised eyebrows in Austin Powers and is better known as a masturbatory aide, vacuum erection devices do work as advertised by will cost insurance companies $300-$500 a pop.

3. Penile implants
If a mans erectile dysfunction cant be mitigated with pharmaceuticals or vacuum devices, theres yet another method insurance companies will pay for afflicted men to try: penile implants. Though most urologists tend to use more modern inflatable models, which require users to manually inflate their own erections, some urologists hew to the older semi-rigid models despite their potential complications. Either way, the $10,000-$20,000 cost of the implants is often covered by insurance, particularly if the erectile dysfunction is the result of a disease or a side effect of surgery.

4. Vasectomies
Non-permanent male birth control options are still limited to condoms, the Vatican-approved rhythm method and the Biblically-condemned pull-out method. But for those men absolutely convinced their child-bearing days should come to an end before their intercourse-having days, a $500-$1,000 vasectomy is usually covered by their insurance. (Notably, most insurance plans do not cover a $6,000-$15,000 vasectomy reversal.)

5. Circumcision
Though circumcision is the subject of much debate in the United States, it is not considered a medically necessary procedure in most cases. Nonetheless, most private insurers cover circumcisions for newborns (which can cost about $100 out-of-pocket) and a few companies cover adult circumcision, which is significantly more expensive.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Just ran across this on Facebook. Too bad that when some one like Santorum starts talking about this subject, that someone from the press can't be smart enough to ask about this and see what the answer is.
> 
> The political flap over the Obama Administration decision to require health insurance companies to cover birth control as preventative care continues apace, even after former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) declared it a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be, and his top donor Foster Friess suggested women just put <an aspirin> between their knees and it wasnt that costly.
> 
> ...


I admire your ability to read and post this without breaking up in laughter. But it's a good post, and a good example of how the War on Women is being fought.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I admire your ability to read and post this without breaking up in laughter. But it's a good post, and a good example of how the War on Women is being fought.


Oh, you should hear me. Sometimes I say WTF.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Oh, you should hear me. Sometimes I say WTF.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This was one of those WTF moments. 


A recent fundraising email from GOP.com was disguised as a "help us pick our presidential candidate for 2016" poll. The list of candidates shows in vivid detail just how shallow their bench actually is.

Kelly Ayotte
Haley Barbour
John Bolton
Jeb Bush
Herman Cain
Ben Carson
Chris Christie
Ted Cruz
Mitch Daniels
Newt Gingrich
Nikki Haley
Mike Huckabee
Bobby Jindal
John Kasich
Peter King
Susana Martinez
Sarah Palin
Rand Paul
Ron Paul
Tim Pawlenty
Mike Pence
Rick Perry
Rob Portman
Condoleezza Rice
Marco Rubio
Paul Ryan
Brian Sandoval
Rick Santorum
Tim Scott
John Thune
Scott Walker
Allen West


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Oh, you should hear me. Sometimes I say WTF.


Now, now. You have been outed on your nasty language by the doggie dinnner crew. STOP!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Just ran across this on Facebook. Too bad that when some one like Santorum starts talking about this subject, that someone from the press can't be smart enough to ask about this and see what the answer is.
> 
> The political flap over the Obama Administration decision to require health insurance companies to cover birth control as preventative care continues apace, even after former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) declared it a license to do things in the sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be, and his top donor Foster Friess suggested women just put [an aspirin] between their knees and it wasnt that costly.
> 
> ...


Funny, I just said pretty much the same thing on that War on Women thread. I left off the penile thingie and circumcision, one because I never bedded an impotent man and second I don't think of circumcision as sexual. 
But yes, we have been paying for permanent forms of birth control for half a century...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Is anyone going to watch the State of the Union message tomorrow night? Will it be another "snoozer" or will he actually forcefully say something that leads to action? Do you think his pen is poised to take advantage of his executive powers? I wish he'd just raise the minimum wage. One would think that he's had plenty of time to realize that there's no working with this Congress.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Is anyone going to watch the State of the Union message tomorrow night? Will it be another "snoozer" or will he actually forcefully say something that leads to action? Do you think his pen is poised to take advantage of his executive powers? I wish he'd just raise the minimum wage. One would think that he's had plenty of time to realize that there's no working with this Congress.


I won't be watching. I don't need to see some roaring a****** insult the POTUS again.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I won't be watching. I don't need to see some roaring a****** insult the POTUS again.


We don't need to watch the responses. I don't get why Rand Paul gets air time, anyway. I just want the President to take some action by executive order. After all these years of trying to work with repubs, he needs to just do something. Nothing he has proposed has been taken up in Congress, so he may as well try it by other means.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is anyone going to watch the State of the Union message tomorrow night? Will it be another "snoozer" or will he actually forcefully say something that leads to action? Do you think his pen is poised to take advantage of his executive powers? I wish he'd just raise the minimum wage. One would think that he's had plenty of time to realize that there's no working with this Congress.


I will watch, but won't watch the 3 replies. I think he may be able to raise the minimum wage for federal government workers by executive order, but doubt he can go further than that. The repubs are just waiting for him to try to do something so they can try to impeach him.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I won't be watching. I don't need to see some roaring a****** insult the POTUS again.


More nasty language, those so called Christians won't like that!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> We don't need to watch the responses. I don't get why Rand Paul gets air time, anyway. I just want the President to take some action by executive order. After all these years of trying to work with repubs, he needs to just do something. Nothing he has proposed has been taken up in Congress, so he may as well try it by other means.


He has been doing things, he and his Atty General have agreed to lay off those states that are OKing medical marijuana as well as the states that have accepted recreational marijuana use. 
Young adults who have been in the US since childhood and did not come legally are not being deported if they are attempting to work or go to school. 
They are also deporting record numbers of undocumented immigrants. The man is NOT a liberal, for sure. 
He has finally started the ball rolling with clemency for crack convictions. 
I am sure that there are several others that don't come to mind. Oh, appointments that needed to be made. 
They are going after voting rights alterations.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> More nasty language, those so called Christians won't like that!


YAY!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Funny, I just said pretty much the same thing on that War on Women thread. I left off the penile thingie and circumcision, one because I never bedded an impotent man and second I don't think of circumcision as sexual.
> But yes, we have been paying for permanent forms of birth control for half a century...


You shouldn't have left out the penile thingie; that's the one that makes me laugh loudest.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> This was one of those WTF moments.
> 
> A recent fundraising email from GOP.com was disguised as a "help us pick our presidential candidate for 2016" poll. The list of candidates shows in vivid detail just how shallow their bench actually is.
> 
> ...


Shallow? Except for Condoleezza Rice (who's only a war criminal and missed 9/11 warnings), there's not even enough to dip your toe in. The average IQ there is that of a fiddlehead fern.

WTF? WTF!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I won't be watching. I don't need to see some roaring a****** insult the POTUS again.


ASHTRAY?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I will watch, but won't watch the 3 replies. I think he may be able to raise the minimum wage for federal government workers by executive order, but doubt he can go further than that. The repubs are just waiting for him to try to do something so they can try to impeach him.


I'm not sure whether or not I'll watch. But certainly not the replies. The GOP will never again come up with speakers to rival Michele Bachmann or Bobby Jindal.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You shouldn't have left out the penile thingie; that's the one that makes me laugh loudest.


Yes, those republican men need their penile thingies.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Shallow? Except for Condoleezza Rice (who's only a war criminal and missed 9/11 warnings), there's not even enough to dip your toe in. The average IQ there is that of a fiddlehead fern.
> 
> WTF? WTF!


I was going to say I don't think Colin Powell is so bad, but he didn't make the list. He would never get elected by republicans anyway.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You shouldn't have left out the penile thingie; that's the one that makes me laugh loudest.


Just didn't think of it, one of the downsides of being single. I just don't think of it, some biological reaction, they tell me, actually I read it. But hey! It's out there. 
My next post on the War thread is going to be Bible passages of how to kill children. That should go over big.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ASHTRAY?


No I think she meant asphalt.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> ASHTRAY?


Could be, did you see Speaker Boehner say he wasn't interested in giving up his pleasures, including smoking, to be POTUS? 
LOL 
Maybe that is what started this string of smoking dreams. Darn him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Shallow? Except for Condoleezza Rice (who's only a war criminal and missed 9/11 warnings), there's not even enough to dip your toe in. The average IQ there is that of a fiddlehead fern.
> 
> WTF? WTF!


I cannot wait! You all may never seem me again unless I move my computer into the living room. It will be sooooo entertaining.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that is why we had to develop the EPA. They did the same in a small city near my hometown.


Guess what, according to one of the conservatives on KP the Calif drought is the result of the EPA and the Deltas Smelt.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Guess what, according to one of the conservatives on KP the Calif drought is the result of the EPA and the Deltas Smelt.


You can lead a crafter to info, but, ya can't make 'em read.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Just didn't think of it, one of the downsides of being single. I just don't think of it, some biological reaction, they tell me, actually I read it. But hey! It's out there.
> My next post on the War thread is going to be Bible passages of how to kill children. That should go over big.


I'm married and I wouldn't have thought of it either (that's just me bragging again).

Which passages are those? Not familiar with the baby-killing sections.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> I was going to say I don't think Colin Powell is so bad, but he didn't make the list. He would never get elected by republicans anyway.


Powell voted for the socialist Kenyan.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> No I think she meant asphalt.


Yup, makes more sense. Or airhead.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm married and I wouldn't have thought of it either (that's just me bragging again).
> 
> Which passages are those? Not familiar with the baby-killing sections.


Hmmm, Matthew, lots of, sorry Empress, Old Testament stuff...LOL, no Leviticus. Guess I should read me some Bible.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could be, did you see Speaker Boehner say he wasn't interested in giving up his pleasures, including smoking, to be POTUS?
> LOL
> Maybe that is what started this string of smoking dreams. Darn him.


I missed that from Boehner. As if he had a chance. I'd call this a pipe dream, which, come to think of it, may be the phrase responsible for your smoking dreams.

I used to dream often about a big park in Brooklyn called Prospect Park, even though I've never lived in Brooklyn. I once mentioned this to my son, who was in junior high at the time, and said I couldn't understand why. It was obvious to him: look at the name.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Hmmm, Matthew, lots of, sorry Empress, Old Testament stuff...LOL, no Leviticus. Guess I should read me some Bible.


Wow, that's a big list.

My Bible class starts tomorrow.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow, that's a big list.
> 
> My Bible class starts tomorrow.


I did look a few up so that I would have some idea about what I was posting. A few are a bit of a stretch to be expressing killing of children. 
Must be one of the Matthew verses is Jesus saying that a person upsetting a recruit should be dealt with harshly. I guess that upsetting figure could be any age.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

alcameron said:


> We don't need to watch the responses. I don't get why Rand Paul gets air time, anyway. I just want the President to take some action by executive order. After all these years of trying to work with repubs, he needs to just do something. Nothing he has proposed has been taken up in Congress, so he may as well try it by other means.


I will be watching it,as I've watched SOTUs since I was in college. I will also watch the responces--they are usually quite funny to watch. Who can forget Rubio last year? The responses are usually crafted before the SOTU is even given & so are "off" quite a bit.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> I will be watching it,as I've watched SOTUs since I was in college. I will also watch the responces--they are usually quite funny to watch. Who can forget Rubio last year? The responses are usually crafted before the SOTU is even given & so are "off" quite a bit.


Uh huh, another of life's little amusements thanks to political vitriol.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Guess what, according to one of the conservatives on KP the Calif drought is the result of the EPA and the Deltas Smelt.


I'm surprised they didn't blame it on abortion.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I will be watching it,as I've watched SOTUs since I was in college. I will also watch the responces--they are usually quite funny to watch. Who can forget Rubio last year? The responses are usually crafted before the SOTU is even given & so are "off" quite a bit.


I remember when Michele Bachmann did it. She was beyond the point of ridiculousness. She was also hard to look at. Someone took a Sharpie to her eyebrows. Please let it be known that not all Minnesotans speak with her accent and whiny tone.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> Oh, you should hear me. Sometimes I say WTF.


Oh Norma, I am shocked! Loved the listing of what men get versus women. Got to have those erections don't you know. I would bet a lot of those old geezer's wives would just as soon skip that recreational pastime and rather spend the money on dinner or a movie. :-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for your kind words. It's good to be back.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for your kind words. It's good to be back.


Hello Cheeks! welcome back!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks, Patty. It is good to be here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Patty. It is good to be here.


Have a surprise for you. She's happy you are back too!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Welcome back, Cheeky. So sorry about your father passing--never a good time for that, as others have commented...but two days before Christmas really stinks.
Hugs and best wishes.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky and Bratty! Hey there missed you both.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh Norma, I am shocked! Loved the listing of what men get versus women. Got to have those erections don't you know. I would bet a lot of those old geezer's wives would just as soon skip that recreational pastime and rather spend the money on dinner or a movie. :-D


Reminds me of the joke about the old fella who is going to the Dr to get some Viagra. His wife then says she is going to the Dr too, cause if he is going to use that rusty old thing, she needs a tetanus shot.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Reminds me of the joke about the old fella who is going to the Dr to get some Viagra. His wife then says she is going to the Dr too, cause if he is going to use that rusty old thing, she needs a tetanus shot.


HAHAHAA, I have heard a penis called many things but never a rusty old thing.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

What happened to separation of church and state in Louisiana?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/26/1272634/-Buddhist-student-harrassed-ridiculed-told-to-accept-it-leave-school-or-convert?detail=email


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Just one more way the rich are trying to screw over the middle class. Then the top 1% ask why everyone is hating on them? This could be a reason.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/27/1272853/-Corporations-Caught-Colluding-to-Reduce-Worker-Wages?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Just one more way the rich are trying to screw over the middle class. Then the top 1% ask why everyone is hating on them? This could be a reason.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/27/1272853/-Corporations-Caught-Colluding-to-Reduce-Worker-Wages?detail=email


Greed, greed, greed. When will these folks ever have enough?


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Here I am again, bashing St. Reagan and Nancy, but I do believe the person who first suggested that method of birth control was Saint Nancy. When Ronnie was on about "the Welfare Queens" . Remember those days? I'm referring to the aspirin between the knees method of birth control. Ha what a pair they were. Of course, I'm from California so we knew the danger he posed before he became president, thanks to his tenure in California.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Here I am again, bashing St. Reagan and Nancy, but I do believe the person who first suggested that method of birth control was Saint Nancy. When Ronnie was on about "the Welfare Queens" . Remember those days? I'm referring to the aspirin between the knees method of birth control. Ha what a pair they were. Of course, I'm from California so we knew the danger he posed before he became president, thanks to his tenure in California.


You may be right, it is a form I never utilized. Does it work?
;-)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You may be right, it is a form I never utilized. Does it work?
> ;-)


I think you have to use coated aspirin. The uncoated kind dissolves too quickly.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think you have to use coated aspirin. The uncoated kind dissolves too quickly.


That may be the trick, next time I am worried about pregnancy issues I shall give it a try.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That may be the trick, next time I am worried about pregnancy issues I shall give it a try.


And you'll never have to say, "Not tonight, dear. I have a headache."


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And you'll never have to say, "Not tonight, dear. I have a headache."


When they are no longer good for contraception they still work on pain? Woohoo!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That may be the trick, next time I am worried about pregnancy issues I shall give it a try.


Well since I can't take aspirin I have to use ibuprofen, cause that is what I have in the house. But since I am past that stage of life I have decided I can let my libido run amuck if I want and not worry about it. Although it is hard to run amuck when you live alone.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well since I can't take aspirin I have to use ibuprofen, cause that is what I have in the house. But since I am past that stage of life I have decided I can let my libido run amuck if I want and not worry about it. Although it is hard to run amuck when you live alone.


Maybe I will use my potassium pills, not only are they large enough so that I won't lose them, I can take that and not get cramps.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe I will use my potassium pills, not only are they large enough so that I won't lose them, I can take that and not get cramps.


HAHAHAAHA


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Well they did it again. In the republican response last night they talked about Betty from Spokane and how her insurance premiums have gone up. Of course, not true.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273347/-Where-is-Cathy-McMorris-Rodgers-ObamaCare-victim-Bette-in-Spokane-UPDATE-Bette-s-Been-Found?#


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well they did it again. In the republican response last night they talked about Betty from Spokane and how her insurance premiums have gone up. Of course, not true.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273347/-Where-is-Cathy-McMorris-Rodgers-ObamaCare-victim-Bette-in-Spokane-UPDATE-Bette-s-Been-Found?#


Not a surprise. Look at Faux News--every time they've held up examples like this, they've proved to be false.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Not a surprise. Look at Faux News--every time they've held up examples like this, they've proved to be false.


I would love to hear these people speak out, to know if they really feel abused...I suppose they wouldn't be posting that sort of thing on FB et al, if they didn't. 
Quite honestly who would not expect for the insurance to be cancelled after developing emphysema?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe I will use my potassium pills, not only are they large enough so that I won't lose them, I can take that and not get cramps.


And lose the water weight too!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would love to hear these people speak out, to know if they really feel abused...I suppose they wouldn't be posting that sort of thing on FB et al, if they didn't.
> Quite honestly who would not expect for the insurance to be cancelled after developing emphysema?


You know, Janet, I have seen clips of people claiming that on Fox Noise, but it was later proved that they were paid by the RNC to say that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You know, Janet, I have seen clips of people claiming that on Fox Noise, but it was later proved that they were paid by the RNC to say that.


We will be done with this soon, I hope.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Purl. Seems like everyone is getting sleepy and some are a bit cranky on some of the other threads. I think I am going to say goodnight and hope to see you tomorrow. Sleep well.


Good night, Cheeks! Sweet Dreams. Good nite all, I am out for the night.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And you'll never have to say, "Not tonight, dear. I have a headache."


Poor Purl
wonder if Huckabee's Viagra is not working for him and his wife's libido is giving him a headache. Oh those over-sexed women sure can give some guys some grief.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> wonder if Huckabee's Viagra is not working for him and his wife's libido is giving him a headache. Oh those over-sexed women sure can give some guys some grief.


I hope he doesn't develop an eating disorder over this.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well they did it again. In the republican response last night they talked about Betty from Spokane and how her insurance premiums have gone up. Of course, not true.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273347/-Where-is-Cathy-McMorris-Rodgers-ObamaCare-victim-Bette-in-Spokane-UPDATE-Bette-s-Been-Found?#


NJG
None of their "stories" are ever true. Bible in hand and lying through their teeth has become a standard for Republicans.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> None of their "stories" are ever true. Bible in hand and lying through their teeth has become a standard for Republicans.


Got that right Huck and NJG. Their "truth" is all a bunch of lies and as Paul Joseph Goebbels (29 October 1897  1 May 1945) who was Adolf Hitler's Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany famously said, "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." 
Look how the right on KP have swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Most of them are no longer capable of speaking the truth or knowing it when they see it as they have been buying into the rhetoric for so long it has become their gospel. It's all they have.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Apropos of nothing, if you want a warm snugly happy feeling. google the Budweiser Beer Super Bowl 2014 commercial, Puppy Love. It is awwwww all the way.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Apropos of nothing, if you want a warm snugly happy feeling. google the Budweiser Beer Super Bowl 2014 commercial, Puppy Love. It is awwwww all the way.


I would rather fall asleep thinking about Chris Christie receiving his fair share of boos at the Superbowl event. 
That makes my little heart go pit a pat.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would rather fall asleep thinking about Chris Christie receiving his fair share of boos at the Superbowl event.
> That makes my little heart go pit a pat.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


And now, I think I will go get some of that dreaming in.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> And now, I think I will go get some of that dreaming in.


Good night. But please no Christie dreams.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Good night. But please no Christie dreams.


I think those would be nightmares :-o


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I think those would be nightmares :-o


 :shock:


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would rather fall asleep thinking about Chris Christie receiving his fair share of boos at the Superbowl event.
> That makes my little heart go pit a pat.


As someone from NJ I can't agree more. But he was a Fed Prosecutor so I doubt there is any evidence to link him directly such as emails, notes, etc. He made his underlings do his bidding.

Also I think I know why he did not ask Wildstein and the others what they knew and when they knew it before he fired them. He did not know if they were wearing a wire and might tape a conversation that Christie knew or that he ordered the lane closures. He is too smart to get directly caught because that is how he caught the criminals when he was Prosecutor!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> As someone from NJ I can't agree more. But he was a Fed Prosecutor so I doubt there is any evidence to link him directly such as emails, notes, etc. He made his underlings do his bidding.
> 
> Also I think I know why he did not ask Wildstein and the others what they knew and when they knew it before he fired them. He did not know if they were wearing a wire and might tape a conversation that Christie knew or that he ordered the lane closures. He is too smart to get directly caught because that is how he caught the criminals when he was Prosecutor!!


Once upon a time I thought that Anthony Weiner was too smart...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Once upon a time I thought that Anthony Weiner was too smart...


He got caught because his wiener wasn't as smart as his brain. Something similar will happen to Christie (though probably involving a different body part).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> As someone from NJ I can't agree more. But he was a Fed Prosecutor so I doubt there is any evidence to link him directly such as emails, notes, etc. He made his underlings do his bidding.
> 
> Also I think I know why he did not ask Wildstein and the others what they knew and when they knew it before he fired them. He did not know if they were wearing a wire and might tape a conversation that Christie knew or that he ordered the lane closures. He is too smart to get directly caught because that is how he caught the criminals when he was Prosecutor!!


That seems to have been the case, but when he fired all those people, he didn't take into account the influence of loyalty. Those people have only his spoken word to testify about, but there are enough of them to make their statements credible.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> He got caught because his wiener wasn't as smart as his brain. Something similar will happen to Christie (though probably involving a different body part).


I doubt that he can find his, it would have to be a different part.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I doubt that he can find his, it would have to be a different part.


Doesn't he have office staff to find those things for him? Or did he fire the ones who do that?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Doesn't he have office staff to find those things for him? Or did he fire the ones who do that?


That would be a whole different scandal.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That would be a whole different scandal.


Too funny. This conjures up all sorts of ugly sights! I think he thought he was more clever than he really is and he got caught up in his own hype and now will have to pay the piper. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Too funny. This conjures up all sorts of ugly sights! I think he thought he was more clever than he really is and he got caught up in his own hype and now will have to pay the piper. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.


That is what catches up with criminals.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That seems to have been the case, but when he fired all those people, he didn't take into account the influence of loyalty. Those people have only his spoken word to testify about, but there are enough of them to make their statements credible.


True. My hope is that they impeach him, but I am not holding my breath!! He is very intimidating and his supporters seem to be standing by him. Let's hope the rats begin to flee the sinking ship and will spill all they know!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> True. My hope is that they impeach him, but I am not holding my breath!! He is very intimidating and his supporters seem to be standing by him. Let's hope the rats begin to flee the sinking ship and will spill all they know!


They say there is no honor among thieves and I think that is true for liars and rats of all sorts as well. Christie needs to go.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> True. My hope is that they impeach him, but I am not holding my breath!! He is very intimidating and his supporters seem to be standing by him. Let's hope the rats begin to flee the sinking ship and will spill all they know!


The problem is that there is now a lt. gov. in NJ, and she doesn't seem too great herself. It may be "better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The problem is that there is now a lt. gov. in NJ, and she doesn't seem too great herself. It may be "better the devil you know than the devil you don't know."


Ya I think the Lt Gov is pretty involved in the goings on too. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. More all the time taking the 5th makes me believe they have something to hide. We might be shocked to know about all the dirty shenanigans that have been going on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ya I think the Lt Gov is pretty involved in the goings on too. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. More all the time taking the 5th makes me believe they have something to hide. We might be shocked to know about all the dirty shenanigans that have been going on.


She - the lt gov - got the atty gen to help her make trouble for mayor Zimmer of Hoboken. So they're all crooked; Christie did a superb job of finding people like himself to run the state.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She - the lt gov - got the atty gen to help her make trouble for mayor Zimmer of Hoboken. So they're all crooked; Christie did a superb job of finding people like himself to run the state.


I must have been off in left field, I missed that part. Truth be told, I will happily read any thoughts or opinions you all want to share, but as far as the media goes I am happy to wait until there are indictments brought forward.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I must have been off in left field, I missed that part. Truth be told, I will happily read any thoughts or opinions you all want to share, but as far as the media goes I am happy to wait until there are indictments brought forward.


I think this was covered on Rachel Maddow's show last Friday, in all its Byzantine glory. The podcast if probably still available. She makes things so clear.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think this was covered on Rachel Maddow's show last Friday, in all its Byzantine glory. The podcast if probably still available. She makes things so clear.


Ah, I miss her on Friday nights, it is a CSpan night rather than having to see some lock up.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Ah, I miss her on Friday nights, it is a CSpan night rather than having to see some lock up.


I just get her podcasts; then I can watch whenever I have the time (and the ads are cut out).

The story may be on her blog; I'll check and get back to you.

Here I am, back. I couldn't find it on Maddowblog, so I must have heard it elsewhere. Sorry.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

My fellow socialist, Lawrence O'Donnell is doing a piece on "bridgegate" as I type, Empress Purl. Thanks.

I don't know how many people have any awareness of the payday loan business. It is an awful way for financial institutions to take advantage of people who live not quite making it from paycheck to paycheck. 
Elizabeth Warren is backing a USPS balloon float that they "take up the slack" in concert with banking institutions.

http://consumerist.com/2014/02/03/senator-endorses-usps-plan-to-enter-financial-services-arena-offer-payday-lending-alternative/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> My fellow socialist, Lawrence O'Donnell is doing a piece on "bridgegate" as I type, Empress Purl. Thanks.
> 
> I don't know how many people have any awareness of the payday loan business. It is an awful way for financial institutions to take advantage of people who live not quite making it from paycheck to paycheck.
> Elizabeth Warren is backing a USPS balloon float that they "take up the slack" in concert with banking institutions.
> ...


Payday loans are a vicious way to rip off the people who can least afford it, many of them military families, who end up in debt for years after they got the loan.

Isn't there someone who's always complaining about how Obama is against veterans? I hope she's doing something to fight payday loans, since there are a lot of vets still trying to pay off theirs.

Or are they okay because they're not Obama's idea?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> My fellow socialist, Lawrence O'Donnell is doing a piece on "bridgegate" as I type, Empress Purl. Thanks.
> 
> I don't know how many people have any awareness of the payday loan business. It is an awful way for financial institutions to take advantage of people who live not quite making it from paycheck to paycheck.
> Elizabeth Warren is backing a USPS balloon float that they "take up the slack" in concert with banking institutions.
> ...


What a good idea. Good for the USPS, good for the borrowers, not good for the predatory lenders. Elizabeth Warren is so smart.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think his own demeanor betrays him.



cynthia627 said:


> True. My hope is that they impeach him, but I am not holding my breath!! He is very intimidating and his supporters seem to be standing by him. Let's hope the rats begin to flee the sinking ship and will spill all they know!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> He got caught because his wiener wasn't as smart as his brain. Something similar will happen to Christie (though probably involving a different body part).


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I doubt that he can find his, it would have to be a different part.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I laugh, but I hate to think of it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I laugh, but I hate to think of it.


It really struck me as odd the other day, there was an article about Dr. Oz using a fat suit to disguise himself as a 400 lb. man. Some woman said that people were not reacting to his fat rather they disliked his sloppy dress. He did look like a man who has not spent money on the right sized clothing for a few inches. That seems to be pretty common. I don't think that I bothered to respond, however, unless someone has the money to disguise those extra pounds with $3,000. suits they don't look neat. 
Who does want to find a penis on a man that size? That may be another explanation for the smile that wife of his wears.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This was probably more on the radar out on the left coast, if I ever heard about it the info slipped in one ear and out the other.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304851104579359141941621778

U.S. NEWS
Assault on California Power Station Raises Alarm on Potential for Terrorism
April Sniper Attack Knocked Out Substation, Raises Concern for Country's Power Grid

By REBECCA SMITH CONNECT
Feb. 4, 2014 10:30 p.m. ET

SAN JOSE, Calif.The attack began just before 1 a.m. on April 16 last year, when someone slipped into an underground vault not far from a busy freeway and cut telephone cables.

Within half an hour, snipers opened fire on a nearby electrical substation. Shooting for 19 minutes, they surgically knocked out 17 giant transformers that funnel power to Silicon Valley. A minute before a police car arrived, the shooters disappeared into the night.

A sniper attack in April that knocked out an electrical substation near San Jose, Calif., has raised fears that the country's power grid is vulnerable to terrorism. WSJ's Rebecca Smith has the details. Photo: Talia Herman for The Wall Street Journal

With over 160,000 miles of transmission lines, the U.S. power grid is designed to handle natural and man-made disasters, as well as fluctuations in demand. How does the system work? WSJ's Jason Bellini has #TheShortAnswer.

To avoid a blackout, electric-grid officials rerouted power around the site and asked power plants in Silicon Valley to produce more electricity. But it took utility workers 27 days to make repairs and bring the substation back to life.

Nobody has been arrested or charged in the attack at PG&E Corp.'s PCG +1.16% Metcalf transmission substation. It is an incident of which few Americans are aware. But one former federal regulator is calling it a terrorist act that, if it were widely replicated across the country, could take down the U.S. electric grid and black out much of the country.

The attack was "the most significant incident of domestic terrorism involving the grid that has ever occurred" in the U.S., said Jon Wellinghoff, who was chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission at the time.

The Wall Street Journal assembled a chronology of the Metcalf attack from filings PG&E made to state and federal regulators; from other documents including a video released by the Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department; and from interviews, including with Mr. Wellinghoff.

Related
Q&A: What You Need to Know About Attacks on the U.S. Power Grid

The 64-year-old Nevadan, who was appointed to FERC in 2006 by President George W. Bush and stepped down in November, said he gave closed-door, high-level briefings to federal agencies, Congress and the White House last year. As months have passed without arrests, he said, he has grown increasingly concerned that an even larger attack could be in the works. He said he was going public about the incident out of concern that national security is at risk and critical electric-grid sites aren't adequately protected.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation doesn't think a terrorist organization caused the Metcalf attack, said a spokesman for the FBI in San Francisco. Investigators are "continuing to sift through the evidence," he said.

Some people in the utility industry share Mr. Wellinghoff's concerns, including a former official at PG&E, Metcalf's owner, who told an industry gathering in November he feared the incident could have been a dress rehearsal for a larger event.

"This wasn't an incident where Billy-Bob and Joe decided, after a few brewskis, to come in and shoot up a substation," Mark Johnson, retired vice president of transmission for PG&E, told the utility security conference, according to a video of his presentation. "This was an event that was well thought out, well planned and they targeted certain components." When reached, Mr. Johnson declined to comment further.

A spokesman for PG&E said the company takes all incidents seriously but declined to discuss the Metcalf event in detail for fear of giving information to potential copycats. "We won't speculate about the motives" of the attackers, added the spokesman, Brian Swanson. He said PG&E has increased security measures.

View Graphics

Utility executives and federal energy officials have long worried that the electric grid is vulnerable to sabotage. That is in part because the grid, which is really three systems serving different areas of the U.S., has failed when small problems such as trees hitting transmission lines created cascading blackouts. One in 2003 knocked out power to 50 million people in the Eastern U.S. and Canada for days.

Many of the system's most important components sit out in the open, often in remote locations, protected by little more than cameras and chain-link fences.

Transmission substations are critical links in the grid. They make it possible for electricity to move long distances, and serve as hubs for intersecting power lines.

Within a substation, transformers raise the voltage of electricity so it can travel hundreds of miles on high-voltage lines, or reduce voltages when electricity approaches its destination. The Metcalf substation functions as an off-ramp from power lines for electricity heading to homes and businesses in Silicon Valley.

The country's roughly 2,000 very large transformers are expensive to build, often costing millions of dollars each, and hard to replace. Each is custom made and weighs up to 500,000 pounds, and "I can only build 10 units a month," said Dennis Blake, general manager of Pennsylvania Transformer in Pittsburgh, one of seven U.S. manufacturers. The utility industry keeps some spares on hand.

A 2009 Energy Department report said that "physical damage of certain system components (e.g. extra-high-voltage transformers) on a large scalecould result in prolonged outages, as procurement cycles for these components range from months to years."

Mr. Wellinghoff said a FERC analysis found that if a surprisingly small number of U.S. substations were knocked out at once, that could destabilize the system enough to cause a blackout that could encompass most of the U.S.

Not everyone is so pessimistic. Gerry Cauley, chief executive of the North America Electric Reliability Corp., a standards-setting group that reports to FERC, said he thinks the grid is more resilient than Mr. Wellinghoff fears.

"I don't want to downplay the scenario he describes," Mr. Cauley said. "I'll agree it's possible from a technical assessment." But he said that even if several substations went down, the vast majority of people would have their power back in a few hours.

The utility industry has been focused on Internet attacks, worrying that hackers could take down the grid by disabling communications and important pieces of equipment. Companies have reported 13 cyber incidents in the past three years, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of emergency reports utilities file with the federal government. There have been no reports of major outages linked to these events, although companies have generally declined to provide details.

"A lot of people in the electric industry have been distracted by cybersecurity threats," said Stephen Berberich, chief executive of the California Independent System Operator, which runs much of the high-voltage transmission system for the utilities. He said that physical attacks pose a "big, if not bigger" menace.

There were 274 significant instances of vandalism or deliberate damage in the three years, and more than 700 weather-related problems, according to the Journal's analysis.

Until the Metcalf incident, attacks on U.S. utility equipment were mostly linked to metal thieves, disgruntled employees or bored hunters, who sometimes took potshots at small transformers on utility poles to see what happens. (Answer: a small explosion followed by an outage.)

Last year, an Arkansas man was charged with multiple attacks on the power grid, including setting fire to a switching station. He has pleaded not guilty and is undergoing a psychiatric evaluation, according to federal court records.

Overseas, terrorist organizations were linked to 2,500 attacks on transmission lines or towers and at least 500 on substations from 1996 to 2006, according to a January report from the Electric Power Research Institute, an industry-funded research group, which cited State Department data.

An attack on a PG&E substation near San Jose, Calif., in April knocked out 17 transformers like this one. Talia Herman for The Wall Street Journal
To some, the Metcalf incident has lifted the discussion of serious U.S. grid attacks beyond the theoretical. "The breadth and depth of the attack was unprecedented" in the U.S., said Rich Lordan, senior technical executive for the Electric Power Research Institute. The motivation, he said, "appears to be preparation for an act of war."

The attack lasted slightly less than an hour, according to the chronology assembled by the Journal.

At 12:58 a.m., AT&T fiber-optic telecommunications cables were cutin a way that made them hard to repairin an underground vault near the substation, not far from U.S. Highway 101 just outside south San Jose. It would have taken more than one person to lift the metal vault cover, said people who visited the site.

Nine minutes later, some customers of Level 3 Communications, LVLT +0.52% an Internet service provider, lost service. Cables in its vault near the Metcalf substation were also cut.

At 1:31 a.m., a surveillance camera pointed along a chain-link fence around the substation recorded a streak of light that investigators from the Santa Clara County Sheriff's office think was a signal from a waved flashlight. It was followed by the muzzle flash of rifles and sparks from bullets hitting the fence.

The substation's cameras weren't aimed outside its perimeter, where the attackers were. They shooters appear to have aimed at the transformers' oil-filled cooling systems. These began to bleed oil, but didn't explode, as the transformers probably would have done if hit in other areas.

About six minutes after the shooting started, PG&E confirms, it got an alarm from motion sensors at the substation, possibly from bullets grazing the fence, which is shown on video.

Four minutes later, at 1:41 a.m., the sheriff's department received a 911 call about gunfire, sent by an engineer at a nearby power plant that still had phone service.

Riddled with bullet holes, the transformers leaked 52,000 gallons of oil, then overheated. The first bank of them crashed at 1:45 a.m., at which time PG&E's control center about 90 miles north received an equipment-failure alarm.

Five minutes later, another apparent flashlight signal, caught on film, marked the end of the attack. More than 100 shell casings of the sort ejected by AK-47s were later found at the site.

At 1:51 a.m., law-enforcement officers arrived, but found everything quiet. Unable to get past the locked fence and seeing nothing suspicious, they left.

A PG&E worker, awakened by the utility's control center at 2:03 a.m., arrived at 3:15 a.m. to survey the damage.

Grid officials routed some power around the substation to keep the system stable and asked customers in Silicon Valley to conserve electricity.

In a news release, PG&E said the substation had been hit by vandals. It has since confirmed 17 transformers were knocked out.

Mr. Wellinghoff, then chairman of FERC, said that after he heard about the scope of the attack, he flew to California, bringing with him experts from the U.S. Navy's Dahlgren Surface Warfare Center in Virginia, which trains Navy SEALs. After walking the site with PG&E officials and FBI agents, Mr. Wellinghoff said, the military experts told him it looked like a professional job.

In addition to fingerprint-free shell casings, they pointed out small piles of rocks, which they said could have been left by an advance scout to tell the attackers where to get the best shots.

"They said it was a targeting package just like they would put together for an attack," Mr. Wellinghoff said.

Mr. Wellinghoff, now a law partner at Stoel Rives LLP in San Francisco, said he arranged a series of meetings in the following weeks to let other federal agencies, including the Department of Homeland Security, know what happened and to enlist their help. He held a closed-door meeting with utility executives in San Francisco in June and has distributed lists of things utilities should do to strengthen their defenses.

A spokesman for Homeland Security said it is up to utilities to protect the grid. The department's role in an emergency is to connect federal agencies and local police and facilitate information sharing, the spokesman said.

As word of the attack spread through the utility industry, some companies moved swiftly to review their security efforts. "We're looking at things differently now," said Michelle Campanella, an FBI veteran who is director of security for Consolidated Edison Inc. ED +0.41% in New York. For example, she said, Con Ed changed the angles of some of its 1,200 security cameras "so we don't have any blind spots."

Some of the legislators Mr. Wellinghoff briefed are calling for action. Rep. Henry Waxman (D., Calif.) mentioned the incident at a FERC oversight hearing in December, saying he was concerned that no one in government can order utilities to improve grid protections or to take charge in an emergency.

As for Mr. Wellinghoff, he said he has made something of a hobby of visiting big substations to look over defenses and see whether he is questioned by security details or local police. He said he typically finds easy access to fence lines that are often close to important equipment.

"What keeps me awake at night is a physical attack that could take down the grid," he said. "This is a huge problem."

Tom McGinty contributed to this article.

Write to Rebecca Smith at [email protected]


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The official complacency scares me more than the attacks. This does seem like a dress rehearsal. Please don't let it happen during a heat wave.



Janet Cooke said:


> This was probably more on the radar out on the left coast, if I ever heard about it the info slipped in one ear and out the other.
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304851104579359141941621778
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> The official complacency scares me more than the attacks. This does seem like a dress rehearsal. Please don't let it happen during a heat wave.


You have to wonder about the 10 minute response time, did law enforcement not take this seriously?
I can see why they can't find any of the perpetrators if they used disposable phones to communicate. 
I wonder why they figure domestic terrorism, though.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From the current (Feb. 17&24, 2014) New Yorker:

*READING THE NUMBERS*
by Margaret Talbot
FEBRUARY 17, 2014

Last weeks report about the declining abortion rate in the United States was potentially good news for everyone, especially, one would think, for right-to-life groups. Most of them, though, werent cheering. A statement from Americans United for Life called the report an abortion industry propaganda piece short on data and long on strained conclusions. One problem was that the groups didnt like the messenger. The report, which showed that between 2008 and 2011 the rate of abortions had fallen to its lowest level since 1973, came from the Guttmacher Institute. Guttmacher produces scrupulous research on reproductive health; it also supports abortion rights. But the bigger problem was the message itself, because the report made a persuasive case that the right-to-life movement cannot take credit for the decline in abortions. Since 2008, states have enacted more than a hundred laws related to abortion, most aimed at limiting access to the procedure. The researchers, however, concluded that the new laws, with few exceptions, had had little impact on the number of abortions. Instead, much of the decline is probably attributable to more effective contraception, some of it available through the federal fundingUncle Sugar, in Mike Huckabees creepy coinagethat Republicans like to rail against. Right-to-lifers could be promoting contraception and touting its success in averting unwanted pregnancies, but that doesnt seem to be news that they want to hear, let alone spread.

In fact, nobody can say for sure why the rate is falling. But the reports authors, Rachel K. Jones and Jenna Jerman, point to some key indicators. For one thing, there was a notable drop in the rates in several states, such as California, New York, and New Jersey, that had not enacted new restrictions. Indeed, rates dropped in all regions of the country, although the new laws are concentrated primarily in the Midwest and the South. Moreover, most of the restrictive laws were passed in 2011, and the decline was already under way in 2008. Finally, and critically, the decrease in abortions has been accompanied by a decrease in the birth rate, suggesting not that fewer women are choosing to terminate pregnancies but that fewer women are getting pregnant in the first place.

One reason for that trend might be economicpregnancy rates and birth rates tend to fall when times are tough. But a shift toward more effective birth control does seem to have played a role. Between 2002 and 2009, the proportion of contraceptive users who relied on long-acting reversible contraceptives like IUDs and implants rose from two per cent to nine per cent. That might not sound like much, but, because LARC methods (unlike condoms or the Pill) are more than ninety-nine per cent effective, even a relatively small uptick in usage can have an impact. Particularly noteworthy was the increase in the number of low-income and poor women who use long-acting methods provided by publicly funded birth-control services. According to the report, between 2006 and 2010 the estimated number of unintended pregnancies averted by federally funded family-planning programs rose from 1.9 million to 2.2 million.

Nonetheless, the new laws do place additional burdens on women seeking abortions, and, perhaps more important, they may also be erecting obstacles to a consensus position on abortionone that most Americans could abide. For reasons both moral and practical, most Americans think that if an abortion is to be performed it should be done early in the pregnancy. Yet many of the laws that right-to-life groups have pressed for in recent years have tended to produce the opposite effect, resulting in later abortions. Consider the case of medical abortions, induced by the drug mifepristone, the so-called abortion pill. The Guttmacher report shows that, between 2008 and 2011, there was a striking increase in the percentage of such proceduresin 2011, they accounted for twenty-three per cent (up from seventeen per cent) of all non-hospital abortionseven as the over-all rate declined. By definition, these are early abortions: they are performed before nine weeks gestation. (Unlike surgical abortions, they can be done almost as soon as a woman receives a positive pregnancy test.) From the public-health, reproductive-choice, and moral-comfort points of view, an increase in the percentage of abortions performed this way is beneficial.

Yet the latest vogue in anti-abortion legislation is to ban medical abortions. One approach has been to short-circuit programs that allow mifepristone to be prescribed through telemedicine. A program started in Iowa, in 2008, allowed a woman to receive ultrasounds and talk to a counsellor at a satellite clinic, and then video-conference with a doctor in another location. The doctor could remotely unlock a drawer in the clinic and the necessary medication was dispensed to the woman. After the program began, women seeking abortions in Iowa tended to do so earlier; nevertheless, the over-all abortion rate in the state declined. The programs safety record and womens reported satisfaction with it were solid. (It was especially helpful in rural areas.) But in 2010 Iowa elected an anti-choice Republican governor, who appointed new members to the state medical board, and it subsequently ended the program. A judge stayed the ban in November, and the matter is now being litigated. Meanwhile, legislatures in fourteen other states have prohibited the use of telemedicine for medical abortionWebcam abortion, as opponents call iteven though the system hasnt even been tried on any significant scale in those states.

All this brings to mind the bizarre inability of certain prominent Republicans to understand the importance of contraception in our society. Making it more difficult for women to get an abortion early in an unintended pregnancyor to prevent an unintended pregnancy in the first placemakes their lives harder. Yet Mike Huckabee and Rand Paul have been on a tear recently, insisting that focussing on reproductive rights patronizes women. Unlike Democrats, Huckabee says, Republicans want women to be something other than victims of their gender, who are helpless without Uncle Sugar to control their libido or their reproductive system. It shouldnt be necessary to say it again, but a womans ability to exert control over her reproductive system is at the heart of her ability to control her destiny in many other ways as well. Besides, when conservatives attack the contraception mandate in the Affordable Care Act, or federally funded family-planning programs, they are working against the forces that are rendering abortion less common. Undermining contraception and early abortion sabotages the future that most people want, one that expresses both their values and their common sense: fewer unintended pregnancies and fewer abortions, too. ♦

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2014/02/17/140217taco_talk_talbot?printable=true¤tPage=all#ixzz2t9yE4KnH


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hello.

If possible, may I join this thread? From the little I see, I like your discussions.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hello.
> 
> If possible, may I join this thread? From the little I see, I like your discussions.


Of course. Sloth is always welcome in my vicinity.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hello.
> 
> If possible, may I join this thread? From the little I see, I like your discussions.


Much more fun and friendly in these spaces. I am not sure why we don't just stay here.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks like a The Boner caved on raising the debt ceiling . Interesting how the R's always "smarten up" in election years. Think anyone really believes them?! Of course, the base and the right wing fundamentalists, but what about the so called R mainstream? Drank the Kool Ade?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> From the current (Feb. 17&24, 2014) New Yorker:
> 
> *READING THE NUMBERS*
> by Margaret Talbot
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes,Mindy, we call it "The Chastising of the Republicans". Hopefully they lost a few followers and are feeling pain. They cannot go thru the past debacle again and expect to survive. It is indeed a big defeat for the Reps. plus Christy and certainly before the month is out, one of them will say something stupid about women's bodies and hopefully they will be hobbled thru the election.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Looks like a The Boner caved on raising the debt ceiling . Interesting how the R's always "smarten up" in election years. Think anyone really believes them?! Of course, the base and the right wing fundamentalists, but what about the so called R mainstream? Drank the Kool Ade?


It would seem that way, too many believe them. National election results should be more like, oh well, 99% to 1%.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting. Arte Johnson



Poor Purl said:


> From the current (Feb. 17&24, 2014) New Yorker:
> 
> *READING THE NUMBERS*
> by Margaret Talbot
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Absolutely. Love what you add to the discussion. Welcome.

Ps. I love your avatar.



SQM said:


> Hello.
> 
> If possible, may I join this thread? From the little I see, I like your discussions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dumb and dumber. It almost seems too easy, but nutball voters can be unpredictable. We have to work very hard at registering new voters and make sure they make it to the polls.



SQM said:


> Yes,Mindy, we call it "The Chastising of the Republicans". Hopefully they lost a few followers and are feeling pain. They cannot go thru the past debacle again and expect to survive. It is indeed a big defeat for the Reps. plus Christy and certainly before the month is out, one of them will say something stupid about women's bodies and hopefully they will be hobbled thru the election.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Dame. I just read online that it is possible that Bruce Jenner is transitioning. Is this a too low-brow subject for this thread. Be honest and let me know. I can always bring it up with Denim and Pearls or Swines before Pearls.

Or Whatever.

The sloth is the alter-ego I share with my daughter.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thanks Dame. I just read online that it is possible that Bruce Jenner is transitioning. Is this a too low-brow subject for this thread. Be honest and let me know. I can always bring it up with Denim and Pearls or Swines before Pearls.
> 
> Or Whatever.
> 
> The sloth is the alter-ego I share with my daughter.


You are funny, wasn't I just talking about wetting the bed a while ago?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Oy! Ready for Depends and a First Alert.

Was Bruce Jenner a triathlete? He made a great man.

I have not watched the news much so I cannot comment on anything sensible.

Whose your favorite KPer outside of this group?
I like Jessica-Jean the most. I think I will make this a new thread. You guys are very stimulating.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Truthfully, our brows go high and low. Nothing is off limits. If someone doesn't like it, they will probably be told not to read it.

I've tried auditing Denim & Pearls and it was so boring I couldn't force myself. IMHO



SQM said:


> Thanks Dame. I just read online that it is possible that Bruce Jenner is transitioning. Is this a too low-brow subject for this thread. Be honest and let me know. I can always bring it up with Denim and Pearls or Swines before Pearls.
> 
> Or Whatever.
> 
> The sloth is the alter-ego I share with my daughter.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe you found a new home. Maybe you should start a new thread "Depends and a First Alert." Kinda catchy.



SQM said:


> Oy! Ready for Depends and a First Alert.
> 
> Was Bruce Jenner a triathlete? He made a great man.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > From the current (Feb. 17&24, 2014) New Yorker:
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Looks like a The Boner caved on raising the debt ceiling . Interesting how the R's always "smarten up" in election years. Think anyone really believes them?! Of course, the base and the right wing fundamentalists, but what about the so called R mainstream? Drank the Kool Ade?


Mindy, I don't think they even believe each other - or themselves, for that matter. The mainstream has been bought and paid for by Kochs and Adelsons and all those donors to Karl Rove, so they have to go along. I think Boner was brave to do this.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Very interesting. Arte Johnson


I loved Laugh-In. Arte Johnson was the funniest person on it, except when Nixon got on to say "Sock it to me." Wait, I forgot about the woman who wore the hairnet.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! Ready for Depends and a First Alert.
> 
> Was Bruce Jenner a triathlete? He made a great man.
> 
> ...


Jessica Jean is a lot of people's favorite, because she knows everything and can be very funny without getting in your face. But aren't you afraid some people will come out with hurt feelings?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes I am concerned. I should have asked who you would want to meet in real life.

My favorites also are Rich Pearl, Cooke,Dame Mary Donnie(?) Amy, Eric, and the Blob Fish woman. Also all the other men.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ruth Buzzy?



Poor Purl said:


> I loved Laugh-In. Arte Johnson was the funniest person on it, except when Nixon got on to say "Sock it to me." Wait, I forgot about the woman who wore the hairnet.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Yes I am concerned. I should have asked who you would want to meet in real life.
> 
> My favorites also are Rich Pearl, Cooke,Dame Mary Donnie(?) Amy, Eric, and the Blob Fish woman. Also all the other men.


So distract them and start that one.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Jessica Jean is a lot of people's favorite, because she knows everything and can be very funny without getting in your face. But aren't you afraid some people will come out with hurt feelings?


When I first came here and was reading Jessica Jean must have been having a day and wrote a totally snippy, borderline nasty response to a question someone had. I think that she did hurt that person's feelings from the response of the person with the query. I have just been really cautious since then. It could very well have been a bad day for her (we all have those), but it made me cautious. I'm not knocking her or being overly critical, just the question about people having hurt feelings made me think of that time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes I am concerned. I should have asked who you would want to meet in real life.
> 
> My favorites also are Rich Pearl, Cooke,Dame Mary Donnie(?) Amy, Eric, and the Blob Fish woman. Also all the other men.


Who's the Blob Fish woman?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> When I first came here and was reading Jessica Jean must have been having a day and wrote a totally snippy, borderline nasty response to a question someone had. I think that she did hurt that person's feelings from the response of the person with the query. I have just been really cautious since then. It could very well have been a bad day for her (we all have those), but it made me cautious. I'm not knocking her or being overly critical, just the question about people having hurt feelings made me think of that time.


I've seen her do that before but then come back and apologize.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ruth Buzzy?


That's the one. That deadpan old-lady look got me every time. And the way she'd hit Arte Johnson with her handbag.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> When I first came here and was reading Jessica Jean must have been having a day and wrote a totally snippy, borderline nasty response to a question someone had. I think that she did hurt that person's feelings from the response of the person with the query. I have just been really cautious since then. It could very well have been a bad day for her (we all have those), but it made me cautious. I'm not knocking her or being overly critical, just the question about people having hurt feelings made me think of that time.


Uh huh, she can be direct, she acknowledges that, I think and tries to control it. I do think that she attempts to make amends if someone approaches her.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Who's the Blob Fish woman?


The Avatar of that Darling Looking Big Pink Fish. Only a mother...

I guess we are stuck in today. How many inches are being forecasted?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

HI Cooke,

Makes us envious and give us a weather report in Arizona. Or is it one other of us who lives there? You must be snowed in, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The Avatar of that Darling Looking Big Pink Fish. Only a mother...
> 
> I guess we are stuck in today. How many inches are being forecasted?


I could have used a name. Or even part of a name. I want to see the blobfish.

3-5 inches possible today, then another 3-5 inches overnight, but it's not only snow, which means some of those inches will be ice. Good thing you have your washing machine in your apt.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> HI Cooke,
> 
> Makes us envious and give us a weather report in Arizona. Or is it one other of us who lives there? You must be snowed in, too.


I am getting rain today. 
Empress DM is in AZ.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

A new poll from Republican pollster Wenzel Strategies released today shows Alison Lundergan Grimes in a dead heat with Mitch McConnell. Oh how I would love to see that turtle out of the senate.

The Koch bros have spent 8.2 million in North Carolina running ads to try to defeat Democrat Kay Hagan. She said all of the repubs running against her have gone on the record saying the state has the authority to ban contraception. They must have crawled out from under a rock.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I keep getting emails to send $10 to defeat the Koch bros. I would laugh if it wasn't such an up-hill battle against them, financially. We can only hope the Reps. will deconstruct with their antediluvian positions. 

Turtles are nice animals. Please don't compare it to MMcM.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am getting rain today.
> Empress DM is in AZ.


And our rain has turned to snow.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

When we get to page 100, would someone download a pic of balloons?

Our snow has turned to rain. They are calling for a foot and a half in Mass.

It sucks out. I am staying in.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That wackadoodle Knit Crazy just said on the Got Gas thread that she read a post of mine as meaning I wanted her to have lost money on investments. 
WTH, does anyone here actually think about how much money other people have?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> I keep getting emails to send $10 to defeat the Koch bros. I would laugh if it wasn't such an up-hill battle against them, financially. We can only hope the Reps. will deconstruct with their antediluvian positions.
> 
> Turtles are nice animals. Please don't compare it to MMcM.


 I am not worried at all about the Koch Bros money, people are so pissed off about how much they spend they (the POed ones) go out to vote more than they might have.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I keep getting emails to send $10 to defeat the Koch bros. I would laugh if it wasn't such an up-hill battle against them, financially. We can only hope the Reps. will deconstruct with their antediluvian positions.
> 
> Turtles are nice animals. Please don't compare it to MMcM.


My daughter just thinks he looks like a turtle and she does a really good impression of him. Wish I could post it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> When we get to page 100, would someone download a pic of balloons?
> 
> Our snow has turned to rain. They are calling for a foot and a half in Mass.
> 
> It sucks out. I am staying in.


We got another 2 inches yesterday, but the sun is shinning today and very little wind, so it feel good outside. I think we are to have a heat wave next week, maybe up to 40. That will be awesome.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> We got another 2 inches yesterday, but the sun is shinning today and very little wind, so it feel good outside. I think we are to have a heat wave next week, maybe up to 40. That will be awesome.


A little delayed January thaw? How nice would that be?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not worried at all about the Koch Bros money, people are so pissed off about how much they spend they (the POed ones) go out to vote more than they might have.


Yes it is all the outside money that ticks people off. The Koch bros even spent money in Iowa City, Ia last election in a city race and the democrat won. People were mad that they spent money in Iowa City.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Yes it is all the outside money that ticks people off. The Koch bros even spent money in Iowa City, Ia last election in a city race and the democrat won. People were mad that they spent money in Iowa City.


I think at this point that is the best publicity we can buy is reports that they (or their counterparts) are the ones paying for certain ads. It immediately makes that viewpoint suspect.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That wackadoodle Knit Crazy just said on the Got Gas thread that she read a post of mine as meaning I wanted her to have lost money on investments.
> WTH, does anyone here actually think about how much money other people have?


Don't care at all how much anyone has. That is all the repubs think is that we are all jealous. I have better things to do with my time than be jealous of another persons money. I am very grateful for all that I have. I don't have a lot, but I have an annuity, savings, and SS. I get by just fine, go to the movies, eat out, play with grand children, visit friends, buy yarn so what more could I want. It would be nice to travel, but with my back issues, I probably couldn't manage that anyway, so I am content.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That wackadoodle Knit Crazy just said on the Got Gas thread that she read a post of mine as meaning I wanted her to have lost money on investments.
> WTH, does anyone here actually think about how much money other people have?


She seems to be constantly on the lookout for the slightest negative sign from any one of us, which she will then attribute to anger (even when it obviously is not) and preach about it forever and ever, amen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> My daughter just thinks he looks like a turtle and she does a really good impression of him. Wish I could post it.


He looks exactly like a turtle: no chin, hardly any neck but plenty of wrinkles in that area, and a goofy expression. And he can move as slowly as one when he wants to hold things up.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Don't care at all how much anyone has. That is all the repubs think is that we are all jealous. I have better things to do with my time than be jealous of another persons money. I am very grateful for all that I have. I don't have a lot, but I have an annuity, savings, and SS. I get by just fine, go to the movies, eat out, play with grand children, visit friends, buy yarn so what more could I want. It would be nice to travel, but with my back issues, I probably couldn't manage that anyway, so I am content.


So now she is over there saying I am snarky because I said I don't care about her money. 
LOL, I knew as soon as I saw her there it would be the end of the thread.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So now she is over there saying I am snarky because I said I don't care about her money.
> LOL, I knew as soon as I saw her there it would be the end of the thread.


You were pretty snarky, but who could resist when she comes on with that know-it-all attitude that never disappears even when she's shown to be wrong?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You were pretty snarky, but who could resist when she comes on with that know-it-all attitude that never disappears even when she's shown to be wrong?


You think saying I am not interested in whether you make or lose money is snarky?
I call that being direct.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You think saying I am not interested in whether you make or lose money is snarky?
> I call that being direct.


I'll have to go back and reread it, but when I saw it the first time I laughed out loud and thought "You go, girl!" so there must have been something in the tone.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll have to go back and reread it, but when I saw it the first time I laughed out loud and thought "You go, girl!" so there must have been something in the tone.


Doesn't matter, I unwatched it. 
Seems to ease my mind lately.
Or maybe it is just that I don't really know what snarky means. It is a new word to me, I think of it as, hmmm, one step up from flip.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Doesn't matter, I unwatched it.
> Seems to ease my mind lately.
> Or maybe it is just that I don't really know what snarky means. It is a new word to me, I think of it as, hmmm, one step up from flip.


You unwatched your own thread? Hardly seems fair.

And I reread it and there was no snark, just straightforward telling her that what she said about her investment was of no interest. I guess in her mind that meant "shut up," which she translated to snark.

You have to re-watch it. It's not fair to the rest of us. And nobody else will tell her off adequately.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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