# Negative and Positive Ease



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

The concept of negative and positive ease seems to be a bit confusing to some knitters. Being ONE of those such knitters, I have recently learned some valuable lessons on "ease" when knitting garments and decided to share with my friends here on KP.

By definition, positive and negative can be very easily explained.......

What is ease? Simply put: Ease is the extra fabric that allows space between you and your garmentsspace for things like moving, breathing, comfort, and extra layers of other clothing. The greater the ease in a pattern, the more fabric there is, and thus the more roomy space there is between you and your sweater. That's positive ease! Negative ease means that there isn't any fabric to spare, that the fabric actually must stretch to cover your body. The more negative ease in a pattern, the more the fabric must stretch over a given curve.

Well, that said.... Why do we need to understand ease and what does it have to do with our projects... Well, EVERYTHING!

Socks are knitted with very little (if any) EASE. A sock needs to be large enough to slip on your foot, but ANY amount if extra EASE or extra FABRIC will cause the sock to bunch up in your shoe and not be very comfortable to wear. We all "get" that picture, right?!?

Negative ease ALSO applies to garments. I typically prefer my sweaters to be more form fitting... Personal preference. I can choose a sweater with negative ease or very little positive ease.

HOW DO WE USE "EASE" IN CHOOSING HOW/WHAT SIZE TO KNIT OUR SWEATERS..... THIS seems to be where the concept of ease becomes confusing to many of us.

1). When a pattern lists chest sizes as choices for sizing... You use your ACTUAL chest measurement. Since ease is already figured into the pattern by the designer, you can expect to knit your sweater using your chest measurement AND end up with a finished garment that fits as shown in the pattern photo.

2). If FINISHED SIZE (chest size) is listed under "sizes".... This is the ACTUAL SIZE (around the chest) AFTER knitting. The amount of ease SHOULD be listed in the pattern. 

Therefore... Chest measurement + inches of ease = finished measurement OR Finished measurement - inches of ease = actual chest measurement.

3). Stitch patterns effect ease. A stockinette sweater will provide less ease than the SAME EXACT sweater knitted using a ribbing pattern.

4). Taking the chest measurement of "your favorite sweater" will NOT help you to decide which size to knit your sweater.

Different styles are designed to be fitted, boxy, baggy or skin tight. 

Your "favorite" cardigan measurement will likely NOT be your "favorite" for a pullover. Your "favorite" sweater may be knitted in stockinette and you are interested in knitting an all over ribbed, lace or cable sweater... The measurement of "your favorite sweater" is useless as the PATTERNING will effect ease.... Better not to even TRY this method or advice.

5). If you like the DESIGN of a sweater but would like it a little "roomier", it is far better to make adjustments to COMPONENTS of the sweater than try to add "more ease" or "go up a size". Typically we are looking for "more room in the bust", "a more fitted waist", "more room in the hips", etc. Simply adding ease will result in an all over "baggier" sweater... EVERYWHERE... Sleeves, chest, hips, waist, etc. 

Conversely... Subtracting ease WILL give a more form fitting garment ALL OVER..... If you simply wish a more fitted waistline, it is better to adjust THAT area.... Otherwise your sweater will be too tight in the bust, arms, everywhere ELSE as well as a smaller waist!

It is far better to adjust for fit by knitting the appropriate size (with recommended ease) and ADJUSTING only those PARTS of the sweater you wish to fit differently (more snug, roomier) as increasing ease will ass room everywhere.

I hope this helps someone else understand a concept I had difficulty grasping with regard to knitting garments.


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

Negative = tighter 
Positive = looser


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## gramknits (Aug 3, 2011)

Very well explained Amy, thanks.


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## JoRae (Feb 5, 2013)

Great explanation. Negative ease works well on your body. You wear your clothing well. Positive ease works/looks nicer to cover a few extra bumps. That would be me. &#128556;&#128512;. Thanks for the information.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Linda6885 said:


> Negative = tighter
> Positive = looser


IF ONLY it were that simple!!!!


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> IF ONLY it were that simple!!!!


Explanation is, doing isn't.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

You can definitely use the measurement of a favourite and great fitting sweater to work out the size you need in a new pattern, should you need to.
If you have a different stitch pattern, use the gauge of the new stitch pattern to calculate how many stitches to use to arrive at your desired size.
Then work to that size.
I've done this on a number of sweaters and tops, and it really does work.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Linda6885 said:


> Explanation is, doing isn't.


👍👍


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

I get very annoyed when a pattern doesn't have a schematic complete with actual finished measurements. I'm coming across more and more patterns which don't have a schematic included. Failing that, it's good if the designer states sizes and then following that _finished measurements_. Takes all the guesswork out of it.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Some of the learning process came from here -- http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-357138-1.html

We DO have experienced knitters here on the forum - a collective effort to enlighten AK.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> You can definitely use the measurement of a favourite and great fitting sweater to work out the size you need in a new pattern, should you need to.
> If you have a different stitch pattern, use the gauge of the new stitch pattern to calculate how many stitches to use to arrive at your desired size.
> Then work to that size.
> I've done this on a number of sweaters and tops, and it really does work.


:thumbup:


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## bwtyer (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks for that explanation - this is a great subject as lots of folks need an extra inch (or two) in different places depending on their shape. That can be pretty difficult depending on the pattern. My inclination would be to make adjustments along the sides, but I wonder if there is a guide on doing this somewhere.

edit-- the link Galaxycraft put in answers a lot of questions too- I missed this discussion, thank you.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> You can definitely use the measurement of a favourite and great fitting sweater to work out the size you need in a new pattern, should you need to.
> If you have a different stitch pattern, use the gauge of the new stitch pattern to calculate how many stitches to use to arrive at your desired size.
> Then work to that size.
> I've done this on a number of sweaters and tops, and it really does work.


I accept the fact that knitters do this, however I rarely WANT a sweater to fit EXACTLY the same as another.... I knit all different styles, designs and patterns, so this simply would not work for me.

I have lots of "favorite" sweaters and they are all knitted to fit ME (actual bust measurement 33") but all measure different measurements across the chest when finished.

I just don't understand WHICH "favorite" sweater I would measure as a guide for ANY others as they ALL measure very differently in the same area (chest).


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> You can definitely use the measurement of a favourite and great fitting sweater to work out the size you need in a new pattern, should you need to.
> If you have a different stitch pattern, use the gauge of the new stitch pattern to calculate how many stitches to use to arrive at your desired size.
> Then work to that size.
> I've done this on a number of sweaters and tops, and it really does work.


I often do this too - when my weight isn't going up and down like a yo-yo :lol:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> 4). Taking the chest measurement of "your favorite sweater" will NOT help you to decide which size to knit your sweater.
> 
> Different styles are designed to be fitted, boxy, baggy or skin tight.
> 
> Your "favorite" cardigan measurement will likely NOT be your "favorite" for a pullover. Your "favorite" sweater may be knitted in stockinette and you are interested in knitting an all over ribbed, lace or cable sweater... The measurement of "your favorite sweater" is useless as the PATTERNING will effect ease.... Better not to even TRY this method or advice.





AmyKnits said:


> I accept the fact that knitters do this, however I rarely WANT a sweater to fit EXACTLY the same as another.... I knit all different styles, designs and patterns, so this simply would not work for me


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> I accept the fact that knitters do this, however I rarely WANT a sweater to fit EXACTLY the same as another.... I knit all different styles, designs and patterns, so this simply would not work for me


It's a guideline for bust size etc and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be exactly the same size or style as the one used for comparison. It's a guideline for ease....


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

trish2222 said:


> It's a guideline for bust size etc and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be exactly the same size or style as the one used for comparison. It's a guideline for ease....


:thumbup:


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## LindaLu (Mar 9, 2011)

gramknits said:


> Very well explained Amy, thanks.


Thanks for explaining so clearly. 😃


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Some of the learning process came from here -- http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-357138-1.html
> 
> We DO have experienced knitters here on the forum - a collective effort to enlighten AK.


There was a previous discussion on this topic as well as several OTHER additional topics discussing ease.

If you are looking for more information here on KP discussing EASE, you can enter the word EASE into the SEARCH box and you will have access to even MORE discussions on this or ANY topic discussed here on KP!👍👍


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/search.jsp?q=ease&u=&sr=true&s=0


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

trish2222 said:


> It's a guideline for bust size etc and it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be exactly the same size or style as the one used for comparison. It's a guideline for ease....


Then which of my three sweaters I posted as my "favorites" would I use as a "guide" as they are ALL my favorites. They all vary several inches when measured... Up to 7 inches different. Which would I measure, then as my "guide"?

I am not being argumentive..... Just have no idea how this would help in any way!?!?

I have yet to have someone explain how the chest measurement of ANY sweater would be a guide for ease when knitting my NEXT as they are all knitted with different amounts of ease into the design. If you could explain this... I would be very interested in understanding this concept.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/search.jsp?q=ease&u=&sr=true&s=0


Thank you. For those interested in reading other posts discussing ease... There are many. I choose to continue in and participate in this conversation today, but may do more reading at another time. Thank you.


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## Pocahontas (Apr 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Thank you. For those interested in reading other posts discussing ease... There are many. I choose to continue in and participate in this conversation today, but may do more reading at another time. Thank you.


Lots of good info here - thanks, Amy!


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

AmyKnits said:


> I accept the fact that knitters do this, however I rarely WANT a sweater to fit EXACTLY the same as another.... I knit all different styles, designs and patterns, so this simply would not work for me.
> 
> I have lots of "favorite" sweaters and they are all knitted to fit ME (actual bust measurement 33") but all measure different measurements across the chest when finished.
> 
> I just don't understand WHICH "favorite" sweater I would measure as a guide for ANY others as they ALL measure very differently in the same area (chest).


Hopefully, most patterns are inclusive of the chest and/or finished sizes, so you shouldn't have to do this all the time, or even very often. It's just another way to work it out, if need be.
I actually don't use the same sweater every time, as I have a variety of styles, and choose according to the finish I want to achieve.
One thing I also use as a guide, is the photo supplied with the pattern. You can see a lot about the garment in that photo. (Stating the very obvious there, I know).


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> Then which of my four sweaters I posted as my "favorites" would I use as a "guide" as they are ALL my favorites.
> 
> I am not being argumentive..... Just have no idea how this would help in any way!?!?


I never said I use the same jumper as a guide. I would use one in a similar style. There are only so many styles after all. Once you've got your bust size you can take it from there and factor in the ease you would like.

btw - you would sound less argumentative without the !?!? at the end of your sentence.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> Then which of my three sweaters I posted as my "favorites" would I use as a "guide" as they are ALL my favorites. They all vary several inches when measured... Up to 7 inches different. Which would I measure, then as my "guide"?
> 
> I am not being argumentive..... Just have no idea how this would help in any way!?!?
> 
> I have yet to have someone explain how the chest measurement of ANY sweater would be a guide for ease when knitting my NEXT as they are all knitted with different amounts of ease into the design. If you could explain this... I would be very interested in understanding this concept.


Ah, you edited....

For that one you just posted perhaps you would compare it with a poncho! 
I thought we were talking about ease on regular sweaters. _Of course_ comparing one of your favourites isn't going to work in that case, obviously :roll:
I said I *often* use another sweater as a guideline. I did not say *always*. I use common sense.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> Hopefully, most patterns are inclusive of the chest and/or finished sizes, so you shouldn't have to do this all the time, or even very often. It's just another way to work it out, if need be.
> I actually don't use the same sweater every time, as I have a variety of styles, and choose according to the finish I want to achieve.
> One thing I also use as a guide, is the photo supplied with the pattern. You can see a lot about the garment in that photo. (Stating the very obvious there, I know).


 :thumbup:


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

trish2222 said:


> I never said I use the same jumper as a guide. I would use one in a similar style. There are only so many styles after all. Once you've got your bust size you can take it from there and factor in the ease you would like.
> 
> btw - you would sound less argumentative without the !?!? at the end of your sentence.


One of the readons I avoid giving/taking this advice of "measuring a sweater you like and using that as a guide"..... You would have to have a similar sweater to compare it to... Similar stitch pattern and fiber.... Different FIBERS will provide more or less ease as well.

As you can see... My sweater wardrobe varies greatly in style, pattern, fiber..... I do not own any sweater remotely similar to my NEXT knit so measuring ANY of my sweaters won't help me determine ease for my next sweater.

There are far better, more effective and accurate ways to calculate proper ease for our garments than "using a sweater you already own to measure as a guide".... That is my point.

I guess you COULD measure another sweater, but when I hear knitters giving OTHERS that advice they have not mentioned that it must be the same style, fabric, fiber.... That makes a huge difference IMO.

I prefer my knits to fit perfectly. I prefer not to use ANYTHING as a general guide but to do the math and proper calculations to have my garments fit properly.

It's a matter of personal choice and preference.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

AmyKnits said:


> Then which of my three sweaters I posted as my "favorites" would I use as a "guide" as they are ALL my favorites. They all vary several inches when measured... Up to 7 inches different. Which would I measure, then as my "guide"?
> 
> I am not being argumentive..... Just have no idea how this would help in any way!?!?
> 
> I have yet to have someone explain how the chest measurement of ANY sweater would be a guide for ease when knitting my NEXT as they are all knitted with different amounts of ease into the design. If you could explain this... I would be very interested in understanding this concept.


For your next sweater, (of which you posted the pic), I would use your back measurement.
The front will be accurate, if the back is.
If you have a sweater which fits you well, measure the back measurement to determine the size of this particular next project.
Even if it's knitted in the round, there will be a direction in the actual pattern of how many stitches are for the back, when split for the sleeves.
If you are using similar yarn, stitch pattern, etc., there shouldn't be a need to calculate any gauge differences.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> For your next sweater, (of which you posted the pic), I would use your back measurement.
> The front will be accurate, if the back is.
> If you have a sweater which fits you well, measure the back measurement to determine the size of this particular next project.
> Even if it's knitted in the round, there will be a direction in the actual pattern of how many stitches are for the back, when split for the sleeves.
> If you are using similar yarn, stitch pattern, etc., there shouldn't be a need to calculate any gauge differences.


Thank you VERY MUCH!!! I was in the process of trying to copy/paste your comment regarding photos being so important for fit.

The pattern photo shows the amount of ease the designer intended for her garment and proper fit. I also check Ravelry to see more finished items to make sure the finished examples (by real knitters, worn by real people) look as the pattern photo with regard to ease as well as OTHER factors.

Thanks for the discussion and GREAT advice on sizing for my next sweater! It does make sense and is greatly appreciated!


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

AmyKnits said:


> One of the readons I avoid giving/taking this advice of "measuring a sweater you like and using that as a guide"..... You would have to have a similar sweater to compare it to... Similar stitch pattern and fiber.... Different FIBERS will provide more or less ease as well.
> 
> As you can see... My sweater wardrobe varies greatly in style, pattern, fiber..... I do not own any sweater remotely similar to my NEXT knit so measuring ANY of my sweaters won't help me determine ease for my next sweater.
> 
> ...


The best way to get around the variances of using different fibres and stitch patterns, is to calculate gauge.
From gauge, it's possible to adjust number of stitches, etc., to get the correct ease.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> One of the readons I avoid giving/taking this advice of "measuring a sweater you like and using that as a guide"..... You would have to have a similar sweater to compare it to... Similar stitch pattern and fiber.... Different FIBERS will provide more or less ease as well.
> 
> As you can see... My sweater wardrobe varies greatly in style, pattern, fiber..... I do not own any sweater remotely similar to my NEXT knit so measuring ANY of my sweaters won't help me determine ease for my next sweater.
> 
> ...


Point taken....but most of us have a modicum of common sense to know that when you _do_ use another garment as a guide you're not going to use it as a definitive guide. The clue is in the word 'guide'. 
I prefer my knits to fit perfectly too and they do. 
I *always* swatch......


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> The best way to get around the variances of using different fibres and stitch patterns, is to calculate gauge.
> From gauge, it's possible to adjust number of stitches, etc., to get the correct ease.


Oh, snap :lol: :lol: while you were writing I was writing :thumbup:


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

*Pattern Drafting 101*

A fitted sloper is a fabric shell of the human's skin to create a shell like the exoskeleton like on a crustacean. You remember, Amy, in Biology 101 having to dissect one that there was no give/bend at all to the shell. They are "jointed" which the dart helps but not in the fitted sloper--the dart is to remove all excess fabric. That doesn't make the dart negative anything as negative refers to cinching in like a corset the under skin structures.

*Ease* is added to make the sloper to then allow for flow but can still restrict movement--hobble skirts, fitted bodices in a two piece ensemble are only some examples. An Empire waistline is movement restricting and uncomfortable to most since they get RTW made ones instead of couture.

*Stretch* also can be mistaken for ease (a lot now days with ill educated webbies that keep passing on poor expressions for what they term something to be) and when taking Stretch and Sew you learn the properties to stretch as there is NO NEGATIVE STRETCH.

The correct term is "NO *ADDED* EASE" which is true for both woven and stretch fabrics. Avoid those pattern makers/designers that are trying to give you measurement calculations where they can not. All seamstresses, fitters, designers, knitters, crocheters, knookers, weavers know that each fabric is unique unto itself and even the best can not duplicate identically anything. A true offering is for sizes only and we all know those vary from maker to maker. To try and please everyone will never work as that was the beauty of couture that will never return. To futz and fume about sizing is not only redundant bur futile. You must make your sample and try and replicate it when doing your fabric as the two can not be duplicated identically. You are making an approximation only. Why the art of underlining is time consuming and expensive since it requires the utmost of cutting skills to do the best work.

If one chooses to wear their garments TOO TIGHT that is their right like the tats and piercings they have to go with them--provocateur........


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## Lostie (May 2, 2013)

Disgo - thanks for the sloper advice. I was just trying to rember the word!


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

trish2222 said:


> Oh, snap :lol: :lol: while you were writing I was writing :thumbup:


Well, I'm gonna say "great minds think alike". :thumbup: :lol:


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> Well, I'm gonna say "great minds think alike". :thumbup: :lol:


 :thumbup:


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> The best way to get around the variances of using different fibres and stitch patterns, is to calculate gauge.
> From gauge, it's possible to adjust number of stitches, etc., to get the correct ease.


Do you have room for another chair in your knitting room? I could learn a lot from you.... Makes sense. Thank you!!


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> Then which of my three sweaters I posted as my "favorites" would I use as a "guide" as they are ALL my favorites. They all vary several inches when measured... Up to 7 inches different. Which would I measure, then as my "guide"?
> 
> I am not being argumentive..... Just have no idea how this would help in any way!?!?
> 
> I have yet to have someone explain how the chest measurement of ANY sweater would be a guide for ease when knitting my NEXT as they are all knitted with different amounts of ease into the design. If you could explain this... I would be very interested in understanding this concept.


I think we all get by now the fact that you don't understand the concept of taking measurements from garments in our wardrobes to establish a guideline of how we like our clothing to fit when compared to sweater patterns.

I learned how to fit my knits just like you did. Resources like books, blogs, sites like KP and Ravelry have all helped me along the way. Just like you are NOT the definitive authority on this subject, neither am I. My suggestion in the other thread was just a helpful little piece of the puzzle, I didn't need to be questioned by you-you were not the OP.

In my case, I have a 32" upper bust measurement and I waffle between making a pattern in sizes 32-34. I most definitely can use the finished measurements of an existing sweater and the pattern's finished measurements to decide what size to make. It has worked for me in many cases, sorry it doesn't work for you.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

disgo said:


> *Pattern Drafting 101*
> 
> A fitted sloper is a fabric shell of the human's skin to create a shell like the exoskeleton like on a crustacean. You remember, Amy, in Biology 101 having to dissect one that there was no give/bend at all to the shell. They are "jointed" which the dart helps but not in the fitted sloper--the dart is to remove all excess fabric. That doesn't make the dart negative anything as negative refers to cinching in like a corset the under skin structures.
> 
> ...


You ROCK, sir! I believe the term SHOULD be known as "added ease"..... Knitting has ease (stretch, give... actually as you stated) no matter what! I think that is why some of us (well, maybe JUST ME😜😜😜.) have difficulty with the concept of ease!

Henceforth in the kingdom of KP ease shall be referred to as "added ease"! Giggle, giggle. Thanks for your help and your ever enjoyable and informative comments!

I could park my knitting chair next to yours as well... You might not get rid of me... That's the only problem!!!!!! Giggle, giggle.


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

You must make your sample and try and replicate it when doing your fabric as the two can not be duplicated identically. You are making an approximation only.

Thank you Disgo.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

AmyKnits said:


> Do you have room for another chair in your knitting room? I could learn a lot from you.... Makes sense. Thank you!!


Actually, there's barely enough room for me in the knitting room. We have my niece and her two kids living with us and their stuff seems to have taken over the house. My fault, I did say, "think of it as your own place"....


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## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

Disgo..thanks for your input to discussion. There have been many informative posts here, well worth saving for reference.
Your depth of experience and knowledge is just fantastic...have never posted my appreciation for your postings before so finally here it is! Bravo! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

It's very late here in Oz, so I'm off to bed. &#128554;


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> I think we all get by now the fact that you don't understand the concept of taking measurements from garments in our wardrobes to establish a guideline of how we like our clothing to fit when compared to sweater patterns.
> 
> I learned how to fit my knits just like you did. Resources like books, blogs, sites like KP and Ravelry have all helped me along the way. Just like you are NOT the definitive authority on this subject, neither am I. My suggestion in the other thread was just a helpful little piece of the puzzle, I didn't need to be questioned by you-you were not the OP.
> 
> In my case, I have a 32" upper bust measurement and I waffle between making a pattern in sizes 32-34. I most definitely can use the finished measurements of an existing sweater and the pattern's finished measurements to decide what size to make. It has worked for me in many cases, sorry it doesn't work for you.


While I appreciate that you INSIST this "works for you".... I am searching for an actual EXPLANATION of HOW this works.

I fully understand you have no actual explanation of HOW to explain the execution, process or method specifically. THAT IS abundantly clear.... No further comments/discussion on the subject are needed. Thank you.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> You can definitely use the measurement of a favourite and great fitting sweater to work out the size you need in a new pattern, should you need to.
> If you have a different stitch pattern, use the gauge of the new stitch pattern to calculate how many stitches to use to arrive at your desired size.
> Then work to that size.
> I've done this on a number of sweaters and tops, and it really does work.


Yes it does :thumbup:


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> For your next sweater, (of which you posted the pic), I would use your back measurement.
> The front will be accurate, if the back is.
> If you have a sweater which fits you well, measure the back measurement to determine the size of this particular next project.
> Even if it's knitted in the round, there will be a direction in the actual pattern of how many stitches are for the back, when split for the sleeves.
> If you are using similar yarn, stitch pattern, etc., there shouldn't be a need to calculate any gauge differences.


Very good point!


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> While I appreciate that you INSIST this "works for you".... I am searching for an actual EXPLANATION of HOW this works.
> 
> I fully understand you have no actual explanation of HOW to explain the process or method specifically. THAT IS abundantly clear.... No further comments/discussion on the subject are needed. Thank you.


You're welcome!

When I made Grown Up Girl, the listed sizes are 30/32, 34/36, 38//40 etc. JOJI the designer is shown on the pattern page wearing the sweater with NO Ease. I wanted my sweater to fit like that. I was concerned that the 30//32 would be too tight. In some cases I can make a 34 and get away with it.

Soooo I took a pullover sweater that is form fitting (no ease). I LIKE the way it fit me. The measurements on this sweater are 15" front and 15" back for a total of 30"

The schematics on the pattern are 15 1/2" for the 30/32 across the back. This allowed me to be confident that I was choosing the right size.

There is no specific PROCESS OR METHOD. Literally, it is just a piece of the puzzle.

Does that help?


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> When I made Grown Up Girl, the listed sizes are 30/32, 34/36, 38//40 etc. JOJI the designer is shown on the pattern page wearing the sweater with NO Ease. I wanted my sweater to fit like that. I was concerned that the 30//32 would be too tight. In some cases I can make a 34 and get away with it.
> 
> ...


It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.

The more important question (to ask yourself, of course.... PLEASE do not reply!!!!) is why you feel the need to comment on this post?

Clearly I STARTED a new discussion on ease as a result of an ATTEMPTED discussion on another thread that ended up with a group of posters who were only interested in making rude and negative comments.... One being YOU!

You are interested in insults, discussing types of cars we drive and offered the "utterly ridiculous" suggestion of me purchasing KP. You dig my every post to find offense and react with unparalleled rude behavior.

Why, then would you choose to hurry right over here... Along with all the others who are unable to carry on an adult conversation and reply to ME when I specifically commented that I am not interested in your reply!!!

It's basic common sense.... I LOVE to read suspense thrillers, but I do not care for Steven King. I stopped reading his books YEARS ago because I do not enjoy them....... I find myself wondering WHY you (and the gang) follow me right on over and consistently comment and make nasty, negative, rude and insulting comments...... A LOT of people wonder based on the negative comments towards you and your behaviors and the volume of complaints about it via PM.

If you don't like AmyKnits method of writing... May I suggest reading and commenting on OTHER topics.... Stop trying to get first in line for the latest Steven King release if you don't enjoy reading them. Surely you have much more enjoyable and important things to do than to explain something to someone who is not interested in your opinion/explanation. You COULD knit....

I have to ask the same of the rest of the LITTLE group who jumped right over HERE after making nasty comments about my posting on OTHER threads..... Can it be possible some people really ENJOY being nasty and ruining pleasant discussions of others?!?!?!?

Should I give you all the "heads up" that I will be posting ANOTHER new topic tomorrow... So you can be first in line to read comments from someone you don't enjoy?!?! Wow. That's all I got!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.
> 
> The more important question (to ask yourself, of course.... PLEASE do not reply!!!!) is why you feel the need to comment on this post?
> 
> ...


WOW! Guess you really DO NOT want to learn -- THAT is obvious.
She was trying to explain her method -- as that is what YOU were looking for.
Oh yah, none of us on this forum is experienced in your eyes.

If you only want to hear from 'the experts' -- take it to a PM and quit posting.
Better yet --- take it somewhere else.


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.
> 
> The more important question (to ask yourself, of course.... PLEASE do not reply!!!!) is why you feel the need to comment on this post?
> 
> ...


Don't lump me in with some little "group" or "gang". I can post anywhere at any time. If YOU don't like it take it up with admin.

I have a tee time in 1 hour. Buh bye!


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> WOW! Guess you really DO NOT want to learn -- THAT is obvious.
> Oh yah, none of us on this forum is experienced in your eyes.
> 
> If you only want to hear from 'the experts' -- take it to a PM and quit posting.
> Better yet --- take it somewhere else.


The point is (since it seems to have gone over your head or into your other Galaxy) is that there is no need for you or ANYONE to reply on a post of a member you don't enjoy reading.

I AM interested in learning, but not from people who follow me around AFTER me .... On EVERY post being nasty. I realize YOU thrive on this but I simply choose to AVOID those I find I don't care for.... I am not obligated to read HER posts... Why would I?!?! She JUST followed me from another thread where she insulted me.... I have no use for HER comments... There are over 100,000 OTHERS I WOULD like to read.

If YOU choose to repeatedly READ and comment on people's posts you find offensive... That's your bag... I specifically AVOID their topics as I am smart enough to realize those that insult me are most likely NOT interested in my comments and input.... Common sense, NOT brain surgery.

There is a small group of posters intent on destroying and degrading any informative post and turning it into a fight... I leave those threads as quick as possible and avoid the people in question...


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

AmyKnits said:


> It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.


Wow. Just wow. You ask a question, someone answers it, and you tell them to shut up and go away. Way to go. You don't deserve to get any help with that attitude.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> The point is (since it seems to have gone over your head or into your other Galaxy) is that there is no need for you or ANYONE to reply on a post of a member you don't enjoy reading.
> 
> I AM interested in learning, but not from people who follow me around AFTER me .... On EVERY post being nasty. I realize YOU thrive on this but I simply choose to AVOID those I find I don't care for.... I am not obligated to read HER posts... Why would I?!?! She JUST followed me from another thread where she insulted me.... I have no use for HER comments... There are over 100,000 OTHERS I WOULD like to read.
> 
> ...


Again -- WOW!
And you had the 'pair' to even reply to a poster who you deem is 'nasty' and yet also bringing up things that were NOT even mentioned in THIS thread.

There are 136635 members --- There are 5132 posts in the last 24 hours.
Who is actually being paranoid about people 'following' you around.
What ever happened to your DNR list? --- Must have trashed it as you ARE replying.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

cah said:


> Wow. Just wow. You ask a question, someone answers it, and you tell them to shut up and go away. Way to go. You don't deserve to get any help with that attitude.


Apparently you do not "get" the fact that I began this post as a result of her ruining the last post on this topic... She was called out for it yet CHOSE to follow me here and continue? Perhaps you understand this type of behavior, but I don't and it is ruining a LOT of members' experiences on KP.... It is wholly uncalled for... If YOU think I told her to "shut up" you need to go back and read my posts... I am under no obligation to READ ANY replies or comments and choose NOT to address those that are insulting on one post then follow me right over to continue on the next...

Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not tell anyone to shut up and go away. I told her she need not reply and I SAID I did not READ her further posts BECAUSE I don't ENJOY her comments.... Just as I do not ENJOY Steven King books..... Common sense!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

disgo said:


> *Pattern Drafting 101*
> 
> A fitted sloper is a fabric shell of the human's skin to create a shell like the exoskeleton like on a crustacean. You remember, Amy, in Biology 101 having to dissect one that there was no give/bend at all to the shell. They are "jointed" which the dart helps but not in the fitted sloper--the dart is to remove all excess fabric. That doesn't make the dart negative anything as negative refers to cinching in like a corset the under skin structures.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the informative post. :thumbup:


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## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.
> 
> The more important question (to ask yourself, of course.... PLEASE do not reply!!!!) is why you feel the need to comment on this post?
> 
> ...


👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Again -- WOW!
> And you had the 'pair' to even reply to a poster who you deem is 'nasty' and yet also bringing up things that were NOT even mentioned in THIS thread.
> 
> There are 136635 members --- There are 5132 posts in the last 24 hours.
> ...


If you click on her posts, you will SEE that she went DIRECTLY from the other post where she was rude and insulting STRAIGHT here with nothing else in between.

If there are 5132 pists to choose from, WHY come join a post started by someone you JUST insulted.,, not paranoia, just facts!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> If you click on her posts, you will SEE that she went DIRECTLY from the other post where she was rude and insulting STRAIGHT here with nothing else in between.
> 
> If there are 5132 pists to choose from, WHY come join a post started by someone you JUST insulted.,, not paranoia, just facts!


Because it came up in newest topics ---- just like it always does.
Because she wants to hear from other folks as well.
Because she can.
So what if there were no other postings from her ANYWHERE on the forum before here.
DOES NOT mean she is following you around.
Again - paranoia - and pure speculation.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:
 

> Because it came up in newest topics ---- just like it always does.
> Because she wants to hear from other folks as well.
> Because she can.


Then that is her choice. My choice is to not READ posts from those who are ONLY here to make nasty comments... Including YOU... YOU have nothing to offer here on the subject of ease, so I also have no need to read YOUR comments.

If YOU enjoy READING mine... By all means... But don't bother quoting me and making comments as I am not interested in your comments as they RARELY offer any useful information... As another poster said "either blue links or nasty comments" are your only contributions.

Enjoy reading all my posts, just be aware I have no obligation to READ yours OR reply. Enjoy!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Then that is her choice. My choice is to not READ posts from those who are ONLY here to make nasty comments... Including YOU... YOU have nothing to offer here on the subject of ease, so I also have no need to read YOUR comments.
> 
> If YOU enjoy READING mine... By all means... But don't bother quoting me and making comments as I am not interested in your comments as they RARELY offer any useful information... As another poster said "either blue links or nasty comments" as your only contributions.
> 
> Enjoy reading all my posts, just be aware I have no obligation to READ yours OR reply. Enjoy!


ACTUALLY --- That quote came from YOU, not another poster.
~~ said "either blue links or nasty comments" as your only contributions.

Besides -- so what if I like to fulfill people's pattern requests.
That IS contributing to the forum.
Besides, that is NOT the ONLY type of posts I make.
That just shows how much you actually know about me -- zilch.
......................

I am staying -- I am not going to have an inexperienced person tell me what I do and don't know.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that my experience means nothing to them.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that I am worthless to others because the person sees me as useless.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that hat patterns DO NOT come in different sizes - though it was proven otherwise.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that there is no way to determine a yarn weight gauge without the ball band.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that a size circular needles can be used by ANYONE - never mind that they may have physical impairments or dexterity problems.
Nor am I going to have an inexperienced person tell me that a well known designer is full of crap and hides 'mistakes' -- when in FACT the person deviated from the original pattern and wanted to alter it --- it didn't work out.

I can continue --


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## MissNettie (Dec 15, 2012)

Good information from well-informed knitters. I feel like I have been to school and I really appreciate all oi the input here.

Wow! I read this before the fight started. But I did learn a lot, I thought, from the first few posts. Then the objectionable stuff hit the fan. :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

Just Wow!!

My vote is we let her post her "pseudo-information", and do not try to correct her mistakes from now on. 

The unbelievably HUGE numbers of PMs I receive every day, saying "are you kidding me" about her lack of knowledge as well as her rudeness shows me that most KPers get that she is clueless about advanced knitting techniques. I am now choosing to let the VERY FEW here that think she knows what she is talking about to knit the "Amy Way", and screw up their projects. That is their choice, have at it.

Please, no more PMs to me about her. I get it.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> Just Wow!!
> 
> My vote is we let her post her "pseudo-information", and do not try to correct her mistakes from now on.
> 
> ...


Again.... Another one of the group... The ONLY missing is Mopsnirth...... WHY are you here? WHY do you continue to READ and REPLY on my topics or posts just to complain about them? Please don't bother to answer as it will never make any sense. If you don't want to receive PM's about AmyKnits..... Stop commenting on my topics... Makes much more sense than joining a topic to ANNOUNCE people NOT send you PM'S.....

Clearly you are another with no information to offer on the topic at hand... I have no need to READ/REPLY to your comments. If you don't WANT PM's you can simply delete them without reading... There is no need to ANNOUNCE you don't want PM's.....

I think you finally "hit the nail on the head".... Let those who ARE interested reply..... Stay away from the information you are not interested in reading!!! Yay!!!!!! I DARE you!!!!!!! Sadly, I am quite sure you WILL reply to my NEXT post with the same negativity, complaining, insulting, AND insisting no one PM you! UH.... If you didnt post here.... No one would have anything to PM you about regarding AmyKnits.... Just a bit of common sense you don't seem to be able to understand... I can have HOPE though.....

If you don't enjoy my knitting and my posts, you are not obligated to respond... Trust me... I won't be upset!!!!!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Again.... Another one of the group... The ONLY missing is Mopsnirth...... WHY are you here? WHY do you continue to READ and REPLY on my topics or posts just to complain about them? Please don't bother to answer as it will never make any sense. If you don't want to receive PM's about AmyKnits..... Stop commenting on my topics... Makes much more sense than joining a topic to ANNOUNCE people NOT send you PM'S.....
> 
> Clearly you are another with no information to offer on the topic at hand... I have no need to READ/REPLY to your comments. If you don't WANT PM's you can simply delete them without reading... There is no need to ANNOUNCE you don't want PM's.....
> 
> I think you finally "hit the nail on the head".... Let those who ARE interested reply..... Stay away from the information you are not interested in reading!!! Yay!!!!!! I DARE you!!!!!!!


tsk tsk -- name calling.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

MissNettie said:


> Good information from well-informed knitters. I feel like I have been to school and I really appreciate all oi the input here.
> 
> Wow! I read this before the fight started. But I did learn a lot, I thought, from the first few posts. Then the objectionable stuff hit the fan. :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


I apologize for the posters who insist on joining a convesation with nothing to offer but nastiness, negativity and rude comments... This has been going on for some time now and I am embarassed FOR those BENT on ruining the forum in such a manner.

I am very excited about knitting and learning new things... I am very glad at least ONE person gained information before the ugliness arrived.


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## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> It does and will not help because I did not read it..... I specifically told you there is no further reply needed.
> 
> The more important question (to ask yourself, of course.... PLEASE do not reply!!!!) is why you feel the need to comment on this post?
> 
> ...


Amy, time out..who is picking on whom here? Is sympathy what you wanted by restarting the topic. I am really hoping that you take a leave of absence again, find another forum.
AK, there is no little gang or mischievous group formed to just follow you around. Waste of time... Yes, I could just ignore, never read your posts whenever they appear, but I read many topics not spelling out to me in advance that you have posted. I could never speak up when you abuse and offend another knitter...but, not a good choice. Lets be kind. Are you trying to run Shannon123 off just like you did Books?


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

cspaen34 said:


> Amy, time out..who is picking on whom here? Is sympathy what you wanted by restarting the topic. I am really hoping that you take a leave of absence again, find another forum.
> AK, there is no little gang or mischievous group formed to just follow you around. Waste of time... Yes, I could just ignore, never read your posts whenever they appear, but I read many topics not spelling out to me in advance that you have posted. I could never speak up when you abuse and offend another knitter...but, not a good choice. Lets be kind. Are you trying to run Shannon123 off just like you did Books?


I don't need a time out and I do not require a leave of absence. The solution/answer is exceedingly simple..... If you do not enjoy my topics... Don't respond.

I restarted the topic to engage people INTERESTED in the topic instead of those only interested in making rude, insulting comments.... Unlike those that thrive in this type of environment... I do not. I choose to leave. YOU and I are clearly not of a like mind.

I am not here for the purpose of abusing or offending anyone, but to discuss knitting topics. If YOU FEEL I am abusive or offensive to others, you have the right to send a message to Admin. or use common sense and AVOID topics/posters you don't enjoy instead of seeking them out to complain about them.

Again, if you have nothing to add to the TOPIC, there is no reason for me to reply.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> I don't need a time out and I do not require a leave of absence. The solution/answer is exceedingly simple..... If you do not enjoy my topics... Don't respond.
> 
> I restarted the topic to engage people INTERESTED in the topic instead of making rude, insulting comments.... Unlike those that thrive in this type of environment... I do not. I choose to leave. YOU are clearly not of a like mind.
> 
> ...


We have reported to Admin -- that is how a whole topic was deleted because you had abused and stalked Books - over and over again (even from thread to thread).


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> Just Wow!!
> 
> My vote is we let her post her "pseudo-information", and do not try to correct her mistakes from now on.
> 
> ...


I know! It's incredulous! I keep hoping maybe someday Amyknuts will stop the lying insanity, but I think her skewed perceptions will always overide the truth.


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## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

There's a ton of information in this thread. Thanks for that.
I have tried using a store bought sweater for sizing - one of the knitting books I have suggests that. It doesn't work unfortunately , at least I haven't got it to work. I just take my own measurements, same I learned when I learned to sew clothes. I do a variety of gauge swatches to figure out if the yarn will be suitable. I enjoy the planning stages as much as the knitting stage. I live by the words of Benjamin Franklin: By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail"

On the other hand - Too bad we can't hide the superfluous nonsense so that the negative/positive ease info can flow smoother. I happen to notice that its once again the same people showing up with the same boring old MO.


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## knitwit549 (Oct 10, 2012)

I've enjoyed the "informational bits, thanks to all who offered them.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Found a great blog.
Untangling-knots, some good information on understanding ease, choosing a size, fit vs finished measurements and studying your schematic.
Let's see if I can get a live link.

http://untangling-knots.com/2014/03/03/far-what-size-sweater-should-i-knit/

Got it! Didn't work.


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## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Found a great blog.
> Untangling-knots, some good information on understanding ease, choosing a size, fit vs finished measurements and studying your schematic.
> Let's see if I can get a live link.
> 
> ...


You have an 'r' when it should be a 'q' - in FAQ
http://untangling-knots.com/2014/03/03/faq-what-size-sweater-should-i-knit/

Good article


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

dijewe said:


> You have an 'r' when it should be a 'q' - in FAQ
> http://untangling-knots.com/2014/03/03/faq-what-size-sweater-should-i-knit/
> 
> Good article


Thanks! I thought it was worth sharing too.


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## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Thanks! I thought it was worth sharing too.


The whole site has a lot of info - I have been reading all the FAQs 
;-)


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

dijewe said:


> The whole site has a lot of info - I have been reading all the FAQs
> ;-)


I know I have been reading and have subscribed. Just a lucky find.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Found a great blog.
> Untangling-knots, some good information on understanding ease, choosing a size, fit vs finished measurements and studying your schematic.
> Let's see if I can get a live link.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

"On the other hand - Too bad we can't hide the superfluous nonsense so that the negative/positive ease info can flow smoother. I happen to notice that its once again the same people showing up with the same boring old MO."

Glad you were able to wade through the "muck" and find some useful information. I think they don't realize WE realize it's the same little group every single time.... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

dijewe said:


> The whole site has a lot of info - I have been reading all the FAQs
> ;-)


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Katsch said:


> I know I have been reading and have subscribed. Just a lucky find.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> "On the other hand - Too bad we can't hide the superfluous nonsense so that the negative/positive ease info can flow smoother. I happen to notice that its once again the same people showing up with the same boring old MO."
> 
> Glad you were able to wade through the "muck" and find some useful information. I think they don't realize WE realize it's the same little group every single time.... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


There is always good information if you want to look. Amy darling you do realize that you are part of the same so called, "little group" don't you?
Look let's just stop throwing jabs and trying to make others feel bad shall we? I have enjoyed this topic. Thanks for starting it as there was great information given.


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

Katsch said:


> I know I have been reading and have subscribed. Just a lucky find.


wow! she says to measure your favorite store bought sweaters - imagine that!


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> wow! she says to measure your favorite store bought sweaters - imagine that!


It works!


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Amy,
I kept meaning to ask if you have a link for the first sweater picture posted in your opening post. I really like it. Thank you.
Kathy


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Amy,
> I kept meaning to ask if you have a link for the first sweater picture posted in your opening post. I really like it. Thank you.
> Kathy


http://www.polyvore.com/oversized_pastel_sweater/thing?context_id=2964907&context_type=lookbook&id=92032822


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks Galaxycraft! 
Too bad though sold out and no pattern. If anyone finds a similar pattern please let me know. Thank you.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Thanks Galaxycraft!
> Too bad though sold out and no pattern. If anyone finds a similar pattern please let me know. Thank you.


This one no longer available but has a description.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390588297910
Item specifics
Brand: Unbranded
Color: Yellow, Rose Red, Beige, Pink, Light Green
Style: Knitted Sweater 
Pattern: Solid
Size Type: Regular 
Country of Manufacture: Hong Kong
Size (Women's): One Size 
Material: Cotton Blends + Polyester

Asian Size - One Size
Shoulder - 50cm/19.68
Bust - 100cm/39.37
Sleeve - 44cm/17.32
Length(Front) - 38cm/14.96
Length(Back) - 59cm/23.23

I'll let you know if I come across one similar in my travels.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> You ROCK, sir! I believe the term SHOULD be known as "added ease"..... Knitting has ease (stretch, give... actually as you stated) no matter what! I think that is why some of us (well, maybe JUST ME😜😜😜.) have difficulty with the concept of ease!
> 
> Henceforth in the kingdom of KP ease shall be referred to as "added ease"! Giggle, giggle. Thanks for your help and your ever enjoyable and informative comments!
> 
> I could park my knitting chair next to yours as well... You might not get rid of me... That's the only problem!!!!!! Giggle, giggle.


Well I am soon to be stuck in a wheelchair so you may place me anywhere you like as I know you have pushed them before :XD:

As I learned in Stretch and Sew knitting has a Memory like elastic and other stretch fibers. Ease in knitting is for making patterns that intended to fit over other garments which is identical to woven. Outer garments of any fabric have the same ease requirements.

I tried to spare everyone my diatribe on "easing" which is not the same as ease (good old English for you--multiple meanings for everything). You can ease gather two uneven straight grain fabrics. You can make a larger circumference of bias fit into a smaller circumference like setting sleeves (also a big issue in knits since many designers resort to the high sleeve cap of a woven fabric rather than the lowered cap for a knit). So it all gets murky in the pond of knitting with no one to filter out the sludge.

You are always welcome, Amy, since you put your heart and soul into your work which shows to me anyway. I did not toss some cold rocks into the boiling cauldron on your recent OP as the stirrers seemed to be stirring so much they were loosing their steam/heat/boiling point etc. You make me encouraged also that the art will continue on with some knowledge as to how it is done and not merely aped.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Lostie said:


> Disgo - thanks for the sloper advice. I was just trying to rember the word!


You are most welcome. Just remember though there is a fitted sloper from which all garments are created from like panties and bras on up and slopers which have ease already in them used often for design purposes, so if I asked you to grab the skirt sloper from my file you would grab the later so I could show you how to make a hobble. That could be misconstrued by many as being negative since you remove the swing in the opposite direction of the straight side seam skirt. It is still not negative as that would mean pinching ones knees together so they would be like bound and hurt a lot. I am not into Dastardly Villainous Steampunk. :-o :shock: :lol:



Shannon123 said:


> "_You must make your sample and try and replicate it when doing your fabric as the two can not be duplicated identically. You are making an approximation only._"
> 
> Thank you Disgo.


You are most welcome and spot on also with your suggestion of using already properly fitting garments for measurement taking. That is identical to the sloper with built in ease that you created from your fitted sloper. My closest friend had one hip higher than the other due to a long surgical procedure where they had her on the table a long time and later in recovery did not turn/reposition her. Her sloper for a skirt and all the things associated like pants had two completely different sides.


cspaen34 said:


> Disgo..thanks for your input to discussion. There have been many informative posts here, well worth saving for reference.
> Your depth of experience and knowledge is just fantastic...have never posted my appreciation for your postings before so finally here it is! Bravo! :thumbup: :thumbup:


  You are most welcome and glad you feel comfortable enough to approach a gruesome ogre :-o :shock: :lol:


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

galaxycraft said:


> Thank you for the informative post. :thumbup:


You are most welcome. Sorry I had missed this with all the other goings on. I just hope I was somewhat clear since it certainly isn't here with all the smoke and my brain suffering from it :shock:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

disgo said:


> You are most welcome. Sorry I had missed this with all the other goings on. I just hope I was somewhat clear since it certainly isn't here with all the smoke and my brain suffering from it :shock:


Yes you were clear enough --
Believe it or not, I am actually getting used to your writing style. :lol: :thumbup:


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## bwtyer (Oct 31, 2012)

This was a great topic before the arguing started- I wish, just once, that people could stay on subject and not needle each other. 
Between all the jabs, there is great information. Thank you everyone that posted all this helpful info, and thank you Amy for bringing it up -- this has been very informational. I probably would have made the error of measuring another sweater without giving much thought to anything else. You learn something new every day on KP.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

galaxycraft said:


> Yes you were clear enough --
> Believe it or not, I am actually getting used to your writing style. :lol: :thumbup:


I am truthfully honored by your comment. It has and will always be my "style" from overcoming the learning difficulties I had and still endure. My savant and Asperger's leaves a lot to be desired, of which I am fully aware, but I do what I can to spill out the information stowed away all these years before it shuts down.


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

disgo said:


> As I learned in Stretch and Sew knitting has a Memory like elastic and other stretch fibers. Ease in knitting is for making patterns that intended to fit over other garments which is identical to woven. Outer garments of any fabric have the same ease requirements. I tried to spare everyone my diatribe on "easing" which is not the same as ease (good old English for you--multiple meanings for everything). You can ease gather two uneven straight grain fabrics. You can make a larger circumference of bias fit into a smaller circumference like setting sleeves (also a big issue in knits since many designers resort to the high sleeve cap of a woven fabric rather than the lowered cap for a knit). So it all gets murky in the pond of knitting with no one to filter out the sludge.
> 
> Spot on also with your suggestion of using already properly fitting garments for measurement taking. That is identical to the sloper with built in ease that you created from your fitted sloper. My closest friend had one hip higher than the other due to a long surgical procedure where they had her on the table a long time and later in recovery did not turn/reposition her. Her sloper for a skirt and all the things associated like pants had two completely different sides.
> 
> Just remember though there is a fitted sloper from which all garments are created from like panties and bras on up and slopers which have ease already in them used often for design purposes, so if I asked you to grab the skirt sloper from my file you would grab the later so I could show you how to make a hobble. That could be misconstrued by many as being negative since you remove the swing in the opposite direction of the straight side seam skirt. It is still not negative as that would mean pinching ones knees together so they would be like bound and hurt a lot.


exactly why I am a draper!


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

For all the others wanting to go off topic because you have some sort of dislike or disrespect for others, please be civil for a change as there are new people watching and mortified (tried to get three friends and a stranger in a yarn department to join and they all said the same thing--too rude and back stabbing--not our best foot forward I would say). I pray we are all considered adults and have some knowledge to move on and act more appropriately. You are just all bringing out the worst in each other.

A point to be added. When making a comment just leave out the directing an issue to an individual (OP in this case) and give your slant on the topic so we can all compare and learn from each other. Negative feedback is a real thing and is not constructive feedback and is destructive in the process. I for one have made many comments on those that have pushed buttons with no harm intended and none was received as they were gracious/civil enough to respond with a thank you which to me is far greater than no response back at all.

As for the topic mentioned of advanced or expert knitters, I would like to see one in person before I die (not far off I am afraid). The one thing I did get from fashion/design school is there are no Master, Expert, Advanced anyone. You can gain experience and get better with practice but so can anyone else for that matter and often exceed your level. Those that thought they were did not do well in actual business which is the real test. To make patterns and publish is only a tiny portion of the art and only puts one on that single pedestal that can be tipped over easily by some nobody on You Tube with luscious nails and dogs and husband getting in on the tapping and having theirs go completely viral because people perceive them to be like movie stars of old without getting to know the real person. They have no expertise what so ever and have horrid methods of holding yarn, making mistakes (which many do not notice or care) while saying one thing and showing another if you truly watch the way they are making their e-loops which can get even more confusing with those taking extra steps to make a yarn wrap like in crochet. Some knit like they are making yarn overs between ever stitch when they are making extra/unnecessary motions. And yet all I see for links are to these same people.

Why at the university level one learns that books even are limited and takes much more looking and comparing to come to a elementary understanding of what a process is. Example, how many ways have you seen a knit stitch being created and for what reason? Which is right and which is wrong and why? Is there a person that is noted for starting knitting? Who is created for making the knook pin?


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Shannon123 said:


> I think we all get by now the fact that you don't understand the concept of taking measurements from garments in our wardrobes to establish a guideline of how we like our clothing to fit when compared to sweater patterns.
> 
> I learned how to fit my knits just like you did. Resources like books, blogs, sites like KP and Ravelry have all helped me along the way. Just like you are NOT the definitive authority on this subject, neither am I. My suggestion in the other thread was just a helpful little piece of the puzzle, I didn't need to be questioned by you-you were not the OP.
> 
> In my case, I have a 32" upper bust measurement and I waffle between making a pattern in sizes 32-34. I most definitely can use the finished measurements of an existing sweater and the pattern's finished measurements to decide what size to make. It has worked for me in many cases, sorry it doesn't work for you.


What is nasty about my comments? Yes AK you moved from one thread to another but the subject is, unfortunately for you, the same ongoing thing and interesting to me.

It's all about CHOICE isn't it? I like the subject. I knit sweaters!

I don't follow you around, I don't knit hats much and socks ever, so I don't have an interest in them.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

disgo said:


> I am truthfully honored by your comment. It has and will always be my "style" from overcoming the learning difficulties I had and still endure. My savant and Asperger's leaves a lot to be desired, of which I am fully aware, but I do what I can to spill out the information stowed away all these years before it shuts down.


 :thumbup: I'm getting used to it too. You're a mine of knowledge.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Amy,
I've now realised that us saying we sometimes use a well fitting sweater for sizing made you think we were casting on the same number of stitches. I think?? I may be wrong but that would explain why you couldn't understand the method (I use that term lightly!). It's only a method used for final measurements.
In the last couple of years I've knitted my daughter two form fitting tops and an oversized sweater. The last jumper I knitted her required a fit between the two and as she is between a 32 and 34 I needed a point of reference. I did my swatching and as a confirmation of the projected finished size, I measured the bust line of a shop bought sweater she liked. 
I find it hard to explain things that I've been doing for years without giving it great thought. I could never be a teacher!
Aunty Sheryl explained it so much better :lol:


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Katsch said:


> Thanks! I thought it was worth sharing too.


Good site :thumbup:


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## jeannietta (Mar 14, 2011)

Ease is so important. Paying attention to it will make all the difference in the world and you will avoid an unwanted boxy look. In addition, understanding your body type (straight, hourglass, triangle) and using decreases strategically to taper the look also will result in a customized look. There are several books and videos available on how to create knits that fit and are worth reading to get the basic concepts. I prefer making seamless knits and I try the piece on as I go along, making any adjustments. In addition, before I embark on any project I read comments on Ravelry. I learn a lot from others experience.


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## Lostie (May 2, 2013)

I can only repeat my thanks to disgo. So much useful information from someone who knows and understands so much more :thumbup:


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

I knit sweaters to hide in, so ease is not important. I usually go up a size. I don't care for form-fitting sweaters on me.


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## purdeygirl (Aug 11, 2013)

Well, that was an exciting read !! I've never considered garment ease before. I never knit garments for myself because of the risk they will never fit or look nice. I stick to shawls which look beautiful and hide the bumps !!


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## guen12 (Jul 28, 2011)

I thought AK's post was very interesting. I am a very inexperienced knitter compared to a lot of the posters. I hope AK, disgo and any of the others that are more interested in sharing knitting info keep "sharing". I am amazed at how some of the posters are able to read a post where someone gives a few lines of a pattern and some of you know exactly what has to be done. I will consider the rest as just "entertainment" no matter how disrespectful and rude the comments. All you longtime, experienced knitters keep sharing you knowledge.


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

trish2222 said:


> I get very annoyed when a pattern doesn't have a schematic complete with actual finished measurements. I'm coming across more and more patterns which don't have a schematic included. Failing that, it's good if the designer states sizes and then following that _finished measurements_. Takes all the guesswork out of it.


If it's something I'm really going to make, I sit down with pencil and paper and make a schematic from the pattern. I'm not an artist, my sketches are pretty crude, but enough that I get the idea of what is going on. I'm still thinking about disgo's suggestion of using basic patterns or slopers in designing knit pieces, I can also check my silly sketches against my basic pattern to check for fit, also. Of course, if the pattern doesn't have clear info about gauge, I'm up a creek without a paddle!!!


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

Amy- I find the the choice of yarn is a major factor in the amount of ease I need in a garment. To make it even more complicated, I like to know what the yarn will do after I've worn the item a few hours. For example, cotton yarn sags dreadfully on me after a couple of hours, clinging to curves I'd rather not emphasize! When this happens, the piece become narrower. With wool yarn, the piece grows in both directions on me. Oh dear!

I've also found, the hard way, that the thickness of the yarn is important in figuring ease. Thinner yarns work with more ease, thicker yarns need less ease.

Thanks for the information, Amy and all the others. I'm going to keep it in a Word document for future reference!


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## Ryssamac (Jul 4, 2014)

Your explanation was spot on and extremely helpful. 

THANKS


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## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

AK, you show the light green sweater with short sleeves, can you name the pattern? Very pretty and my kind of style. I do not like a lot of ease in my sweaters.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Nancyn said:


> AK, you show the light green sweater with short sleeves, can you name the pattern? Very pretty and my kind of style. I do not like a lot of ease in my sweaters.


I believe this is the one you are interested in...

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-347753-1.html


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## debsu (Jul 26, 2011)

Hi Amy, I love your knitting! Could you please tell me the name or location of the Blue "Trapeze Style" sweater pattern? I would really like to purchase the pattern and make one!


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

debsu said:


> Hi Amy, I love your knitting! Could you please tell me the name or location of the Blue "Trapeze Style" sweater pattern? I would really like to purchase the pattern and make one!


Here is the link to the trapeze sweater...

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-208537-1.html


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## debsu (Jul 26, 2011)

Amy, thank you VERY much! It is printing as I type! Debbie


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

"You are always welcome, Amy, since you put your heart and soul into your work which shows to me anyway. I did not toss some cold rocks into the boiling cauldron on your recent OP as the stirrers seemed to be stirring so much they were loosing their steam/heat/boiling point etc. You make me encouraged also that the art will continue on with some knowledge as to how it is done and not merely aped.[/quote]"

Thank you so much for your wonderful advice, guidance and kindness. This last paragraph touched me in a way I'm not sure you will appreciate.

You understand my purpose in my desire to knit, absorb all the information I can find, try EVERY technique there is out there and the REASON for all of it.

I have always stated that I knit only one project at a time. Yes, I am a very "common sense" person... WHY would I start a second project before the first is complete? There IS no reason that will ever make sense to ME. But it is more than that.... It is because I am FOCUSED on learning, FOCUSED on my goals and FOCUSED on CREATING!

For some... Knitting is relaxing.... Stitching a few rows on one project, stitching a few on another and so on MIGHT be pleasing for some, but not myself. I am anxious to "attempt the next component", "see how my modifications work", "try the new bind off I researched" and CREATE something. I have never felt the urge to knit for relaxation and "knit to knit stitches" for the relaxation of simply MAKING stitches. I knit to CREATE, NOT to KNIT stitches. TMI, but I don't even know what "relaxing" is.... The only time I am relaxed is when I am sleeping... But that is another issue.

While I appreciate we all have different REASONS for knitting... Relaxing, giving to charity, producing afghans, heirlooms for the family, using up stash, a goal to knit 100 baby hats..... All legitimate and wonderful reasons to knit.

I "dig a little deeper", "question things that don't make sense (even IF they have been done with success by some for 50 years)", "read, try, figure" all I can about knitting. I realize this seems "pushy" or "overbearing" to SOME, but YOU understand my approach and "end goal"..... I believe if ANYONE wishes to look at my work and progression/projects it would become more clear..... I can WISH, right?!?!?

The fact that such an accomplished/knowledgeable "fiber artist" understands and appreciates my interest in "creating" (what probably only I deem as.... that is perfectly fine, BTW) "art" is very heartwarming. I am more deeply touched than you will likely ever know.

I would be honored to push your wheel chair.


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## Irene1 (Oct 23, 2013)

Socks should have negative ease. Generally, one takes the gauge in stitches per inch multiplied by the circumference of the widest part of the foot (usually the ball of the foot) and reduce the number of stitches by 5 - 10%, the range being so that the sock will fit and you get a stitch count that will be a multiple of the number of stitches in the pattern.

As long as the pattern you use includes both knit and purl stitches in the cuff, the sock will fit snugly in the foot and will be stretchy enough in the cuff without bagging. If the pattern doesn't have a lot of stretch, some designers kindly add a panel of ribbing in the back of the cuff for a few inches, which I first encountered in a Nancy Bush pattern. I think Nancy was a genius when I discovered that trick!

I am now the proud owner of well over 50 pairs of hand knitted socks....the only kind I wear....and they all fit wonderfully and are worn in shoes.


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## Marilyn Dietrich (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you for this, Amy. Your explanation was easy to follow, and I appreciate your taking the time to do this. Did you ever teach? Keep smiling!


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Marilyn Dietrich said:


> Thank you for this, Amy. Your explanation was easy to follow, and I appreciate your taking the time to do this. Did you ever teach? Keep smiling!


I'm glad you "gained" something from my post. We all learn differently, so I always hope it makes sense when I explain it... Not always the case, but if it helps one person... Worth it!

You are a doll! I am ALWAYS smiling! It's how I roll! Giggle, giggle.

These little "blips" are nothing on the big picture that is my "life"..... They don't even register as I don't even READ their comments for the most part. Once "they" realize I cannot be affected by their words, (it should be abundantly clear by now.... IM STILL HERE... HELLO) even they will be able to figure out it does not accomplish anything.....


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## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

JoyceinNC said:


> Amy- I find the the choice of yarn is a major factor in the amount of ease I need in a garment. To make it even more complicated, I like to know what the yarn will do after I've worn the item a few hours. For example, cotton yarn sags dreadfully on me after a couple of hours, clinging to curves I'd rather not emphasize! When this happens, the piece become narrower. With wool yarn, the piece grows in both directions on me. Oh dear!
> 
> I've also found, the hard way, that the thickness of the yarn is important in figuring ease. Thinner yarns work with more ease, thicker yarns need less ease.
> 
> Thanks for the information, Amy and all the others. I'm going to keep it in a Word document for future reference!


 This is my perspective too ( I also make crude diagrams ). I usually knit huge swatches so there's enough fabric to torture so I can see the outcome. I think my dysfunction from using store bought sweater measurements as a guide stems from changes in yarn after the way I 'mishandle' the swatches. I also started being more discerning about yarn fibers as a result. i like fitted knits but invariably have to make changes to accommodate my ....ummm, shall we say ...ample bosoms. I futzed around for years trying to figure out how to perfect that. I still haven't got it perfect but since discovering short rows and bust darts, my sweaters have improved a lot. 
I sewed before I started knitting garments, so I have always drawn on that bit of knowledge when trying to size my sweaters to fit. A lot of the time I don't know WTH I am doing so am discovering a lot of valuable info on this thread.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

JoyceinNC said:


> Amy- I find the the choice of yarn is a major factor in the amount of ease I need in a garment. To make it even more complicated, I like to know what the yarn will do after I've worn the item a few hours. For example, cotton yarn sags dreadfully on me after a couple of hours, clinging to curves I'd rather not emphasize! When this happens, the piece become narrower. With wool yarn, the piece grows in both directions on me. Oh dear!
> 
> I've also found, the hard way, that the thickness of the yarn is important in figuring ease. Thinner yarns work with more ease, thicker yarns need less ease.
> 
> Thanks for the information, Amy and all the others. I'm going to keep it in a Word document for future reference!


I agree.... However after reading the post by disgo... Different fibers will provide more or less "stretch" rather than EASE, but stretch and ease work similarly, so it counts the same..... Right?!?!?😳😳😁😁😜😜


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

debsu said:


> Amy, thank you VERY much! It is printing as I type! Debbie


Where did you buy it from? I followed the link to the pattern maker and found two stores that I frequent (but they're a drive away).


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> The point is (since it seems to have gone over your head or into your other Galaxy) is that there is no need for you or ANYONE to reply on a post of a member you don't enjoy reading.
> 
> I AM interested in learning, but not from people who follow me around AFTER me .... On EVERY post being nasty. I realize YOU thrive on this but I simply choose to AVOID those I find I don't care for.... I am not obligated to read HER posts... Why would I?!?! She JUST followed me from another thread where she insulted me.... I have no use for HER comments... There are over 100,000 OTHERS I WOULD like to read.
> 
> ...


I am so tired of high stepping through the crap of a few members to read and learn something new. If you don't like AmyKnits posts just don't read it. Report her to admn. but stop following her around making trouble and ruining the forum for the rest of us.


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## dijewe (Mar 1, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> I am so tired of high stepping through the crap of a few members to read and learn something new. If you don't like AmyKnits posts just don't read it. Report her to admn. but stop following her around making trouble and ruining the forum for the rest of us.


I second that - beware though, you may just find that those same people will start following you around because of your comment to try and ruin your day. Fortunately the avatar is glaring enough for me to know that I can just skip over that particular comment.


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Katsch said:


> Thanks Galaxycraft!
> Too bad though sold out and no pattern. If anyone finds a similar pattern please let me know. Thank you.


Kathy, 
This is in my queue and looks very similar. I haven't gone through this whole thread, you may have it already.

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/inspired-sweater


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

jeannietta said:


> Ease is so important. Paying attention to it will make all the difference in the world and you will avoid an unwanted boxy look. In addition, understanding your body type (straight, hourglass, triangle) and using decreases strategically to taper the look also will result in a customized look. There are several books and videos available on how to create knits that fit and are worth reading to get the basic concepts. I prefer making seamless knits and I try the piece on as I go along, making any adjustments. In addition, before I embark on any project I read comments on Ravelry. I learn a lot from others experience.


I do this too. How's your Grown Up Girl going?


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> I am so tired of high stepping through the crap of a few members to read and learn something new. If you don't like AmyKnits posts just don't read it. Report her to admn. but stop following her around making trouble and ruining the forum for the rest of us.


I agree... I have said the same thing... literally hundreds of times, yet here they STILL ARE.... On page 9!!!!!! Just waiting and waiting to "attack" like vultures.... Makes no sense WHY you follow a post for pages and pages JUST to complain about the OP.... I don't post on THEIR threads (have a look if you need to)... But I have some common sense...... It's in short supply here.... :roll: :roll:


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

dijewe said:


> I second that - beware though, you may just find that those same people will start following you around because of your comment to try and ruin your day. Fortunately the avatar is glaring enough for me to know that I can just skip over that particular comment.


I agree. It is not hard to remember who they are... Only six or so avatars to avoid like the plague... Except the one that changes EVERY DAY! :roll: :roll:

If you notice... When THEY post a topic there is little (only from the others in the group) response at all... We ALL learn and AVOID them... That's my best advice.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

debsu said:


> Amy, thank you VERY much! It is printing as I type! Debbie


Great! It is one of my favorites... As I said.👍👍


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## JoRae (Feb 5, 2013)

PaKnitter said:


> I am so tired of high stepping through the crap of a few members to read and learn something new. If you don't like AmyKnits posts just don't read it. Report her to admn. but stop following her around making trouble and ruining the forum for the rest of us.


Well said.


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## Glendasue (Apr 29, 2011)

Amy, Great info, thank you for sharing with us!!!


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## JoRae (Feb 5, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> "You are always welcome, Amy, since you put your heart and soul into your work which shows to me anyway. I did not toss some cold rocks into the boiling cauldron on your recent OP as the stirrers seemed to be stirring so much they were loosing their steam/heat/boiling point etc. You make me encouraged also that the art will continue on with some knowledge as to how it is done and not merely aped.


"

Thank you so much for your wonderful advice, guidance and kindness. This last paragraph touched me in a way I'm not sure you will appreciate.

You understand my purpose in my desire to knit, absorb all the information I can find, try EVERY technique there is out there and the REASON for all of it.

I have always stated that I knit only one project at a time. Yes, I am a very "common sense" person... WHY would I start a second project before the first is complete? There IS no reason that will ever make sense to ME. But it is more than that.... It is because I am FOCUSED on learning, FOCUSED on my goals and FOCUSED on CREATING!

For some... Knitting is relaxing.... Stitching a few rows on one project, stitching a few on another and so on MIGHT be pleasing for some, but not myself. I am anxious to "attempt the next component", "see how my modifications work", "try the new bind off I researched" and CREATE something. I have never felt the urge to knit for relaxation and "knit to knit stitches" for the relaxation of simply MAKING stitches. I knit to CREATE, NOT to KNIT stitches. TMI, but I don't even know what "relaxing" is.... The only time I am relaxed is when I am sleeping... But that is another issue.

While I appreciate we all have different REASONS for knitting... Relaxing, giving to charity, producing afghans, heirlooms for the family, using up stash, a goal to knit 100 baby hats..... All legitimate and wonderful reasons to knit.

I "dig a little deeper", "question things that don't make sense (even IF they have been done with success by some for 50 years)", "read, try, figure" all I can about knitting. I realize this seems "pushy" or "overbearing" to SOME, but YOU understand my approach and "end goal"..... I believe if ANYONE wishes to look at my work and progression/projects it would become more clear..... I can WISH, right?!?!?

The fact that such an accomplished/knowledgeable "fiber artist" understands and appreciates my interest in "creating" (what probably only I deem as.... that is perfectly fine, BTW) "art" is very heartwarming. I am more deeply touched than you will likely ever know.

I would be honored to push your wheel chair.[/quote]

This was the most heartwarming post from disgo and response from AmyKnits. It touched my heart.


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## KJKnitCro (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks, Amy, for this explanation of "ease". I'm thankful to a dear friend that pointed me to the same good advice years ago. Different garments are worn differently, so ease gets adjusted accordingly.

I am taking the liberty of adjusting the size of the arm hole on a young guys sweater. In my estimation, it was too tight for easy on-off for a twelve year-old. I'm re-knitting the back at the moment. I know that I will also be adjusting the sleeve cap, but I'm confident it can be done without destroying the fit of the sleeve. This guy is a challenge to knit for. He has a 27 inch chest, but needs an age 10-12 length. AND he wants some "growing room". But with his record so far, he will be growing "up" and not "out"! So his chest measurement puts him in a fairly small size for his age. Thank goodness, length is not a really difficult adjustment, as long as we remain consistent.


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## KnitterNatalie (Feb 20, 2011)

Thanks, Amy!


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

JoyceinNC said:


> If it's something I'm really going to make, I sit down with pencil and paper and make a schematic from the pattern. I'm not an artist, my sketches are pretty crude, but enough that I get the idea of what is going on. I'm still thinking about disgo's suggestion of using basic patterns or slopers in designing knit pieces, I can also check my silly sketches against my basic pattern to check for fit, also. Of course, if the pattern doesn't have clear info about gauge, I'm up a creek without a paddle!!!


You can make your sloper pieces in freezer paper and such heavier weight papers. If it is your basic fitted sloper you take the basting apart very carefully so as to not distort the seam line (seam allowances are not included in a sloper piece pattern--they are added as you cut) and then use heavy craft paper or large card stock to make the pieces--all info is then written on each piece and then a hole or clips applied to hang them. The pattern slopers should also be treated the same and are a quick guide to what you are considering as they contain seam allowances and ease (needs to be noted on the piece) so you can create other designs right from them.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

purdeygirl said:


> Well, that was an exciting read !! I've never considered garment ease before. I never knit garments for myself because of the risk they will never fit or look nice. I stick to shawls which look beautiful and hide the bumps !!


Well from your last post you should consider at least fit since that top you are considering needs to be. After you make what every crossed/twisted bust area treatment you choose you are then dealing with an Empire waistline from then on so need to have no added ease right under the busts. This will then allow you to swing the side seams in a flare and make the pointed hemline more appropriate. If there are bumps in the tumps then loosen the side seams by adding ease until like a sheath the side seams merely skim over the ridges and keep them less noticeable. It is a very nice top for you to experiment on. The knowledge you gain will let you more easily do other things to help you get the results you desire. Just remember that all fabrics need to be adjusted each and every time and that is why I always suggest having the basic slopers to work off from to at least you have that correct and can adjust readily from there.


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## Grammy Toni (Apr 30, 2011)

Very informative. I would like to knit sweaters that fit well for granddaughters and I just didn't feel confident about the how the finished product would turn out. Using your guides and information, perhaps I can actually make it happen!


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> Thank you so much for your wonderful advice, guidance and kindness. This last paragraph touched me in a way I'm not sure you will appreciate.
> 
> You understand my purpose in my desire to knit, absorb all the information I can find, try EVERY technique there is out there and the REASON for all of it.
> 
> ...


Coming from the same professional background you and I pick up things most have not been trained to do and depend on us. I had picked up your creative vibe the moment I first joined KP. You are extremely talented and well focused so do not change on any account as that is what makes you a unique commodity in this crazy changing bad/good world of infovideos etc.

Your last photo shows you have the ease concept well in tow since your tucked front lays perfectly without distortion or drag lines. I forget to mention drapers as I was not taught that method but was merely touched on in class. They incorporate ease with all their tucking and make it difficult for others to duplicate since the fabric is used in the process. As you already know even if using the marked tucks and the identical fabric another will not be able to duplicate the original. Good example being the deceased designers gown a dress maker for Jane Fonda tried to reproduce and in my opinion making a very poor copy for her to wear to a gala this year. They were unable to get the concept of the wrap correct which was the whole idea of the original gown--one huge simple wrap but very couture in construction. The same held true for the design student that blogged on how she was recreating an Adrian suit made for Joan Crawford. She went to a man's tailor to learn tailoring not realizing the two are entirely different and made purposefully so. She ended up with a very nice mens suit for a woman.

I had to go beyond my creative mode when going into business so have never gone back. I am polar to you as my mind races with other ideas as I am working on one so I must pause during breaks and start that idea. I used to marvel at a work peer that did fair isle without any patterns. Granted she was taught by her Scandinavian relatives, but to do three sweaters at the same time (complete two rows on one and pick up another etc,) said it kept her from getting bored :-o :shock: All I can do is think time is not money so I must go as fast as my industrial sewing machines did when I created woven garments that comprised 90% of my business. Now with the renewed interest in crocheted tops I maybe be back in business after all since I love to crochet in thread and with my speed I can out do most with yarn in time taken to make a shell/top.

I am glad you got the message since you greatly deserve every bit of what I said. Now take that energy and put it to good use Giggle Giggle!!!


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## Beachkc (Aug 24, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> "You are always welcome, Amy, since you put your heart and soul into your work which shows to me anyway. I did not toss some cold rocks into the boiling cauldron on your recent OP as the stirrers seemed to be stirring so much they were loosing their steam/heat/boiling point etc. You make me encouraged also that the art will continue on with some knowledge as to how it is done and not merely aped.


"

Thank you so much for your wonderful advice, guidance and kindness. This last paragraph touched me in a way I'm not sure you will appreciate.

You understand my purpose in my desire to knit, absorb all the information I can find, try EVERY technique there is out there and the REASON for all of it.

I have always stated that I knit only one project at a time. Yes, I am a very "common sense" person... WHY would I start a second project before the first is complete? There IS no reason that will ever make sense to ME. But it is more than that.... It is because I am FOCUSED on learning, FOCUSED on my goals and FOCUSED on CREATING!

For some... Knitting is relaxing.... Stitching a few rows on one project, stitching a few on another and so on MIGHT be pleasing for some, but not myself. I am anxious to "attempt the next component", "see how my modifications work", "try the new bind off I researched" and CREATE something. I have never felt the urge to knit for relaxation and "knit to knit stitches" for the relaxation of simply MAKING stitches. I knit to CREATE, NOT to KNIT stitches. TMI, but I don't even know what "relaxing" is.... The only time I am relaxed is when I am sleeping... But that is another issue.

While I appreciate we all have different REASONS for knitting... Relaxing, giving to charity, producing afghans, heirlooms for the family, using up stash, a goal to knit 100 baby hats..... All legitimate and wonderful reasons to knit.

I "dig a little deeper", "question things that don't make sense (even IF they have been done with success by some for 50 years)", "read, try, figure" all I can about knitting. I realize this seems "pushy" or "overbearing" to SOME, but YOU understand my approach and "end goal"..... I believe if ANYONE wishes to look at my work and progression/projects it would become more clear..... I can WISH, right?!?!?

The fact that such an accomplished/knowledgeable "fiber artist" understands and appreciates my interest in "creating" (what probably only I deem as.... that is perfectly fine, BTW) "art" is very heartwarming. I am more deeply touched than you will likely ever know.

I would be honored to push your wheel chair.[/quote]

And thank you for putting the effort into research and sharing what you have learned. It certainly helps me make short cuts by taking your helpful tips and seeing if they work for me while advancing my own skill in knitting. You and Disco are fountains of knowledge that I enjoy.

All I can say is: Bully for you girl! 
The only advise I could give: Try not let "the group" goad you into responding to their posts. They have really sunk to new lows in the last couple weeks.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

very clear. thanks Amy.


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

Whaaat?!? I've completely lost what's going on in this thread. I don't know who is saying what due to misquoting. 

Buh-bye.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

cah said:


> Whaaat?!? I've completely lost what's going on in this thread. I don't know who is saying what due to misquoting.
> 
> Buh-bye.


I responded to the ease explanation. somehow a previous thread got squished in here. yes, confusing.


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## jeannietta (Mar 14, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> I do this too. How's your Grown Up Girl going?


Great! I finished the left sleeve (thanks to your help it fits perfectly) and am almost done with the right. Onto the pocket design and the belt (maybe) and I'm done!!


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

galaxycraft said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


try this.

http://untangling-knots.com/2014/03/03/faq-what-size-sweater-should-i-knit/


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

AmyKnits said:


> Tis is my next . . .


I made this and love it. It came out really big at the bottom (maybe because I lost 20 pounds) but watch your gauge just in case! To deal with the fit, I added reverse pleats on the sides at the bottom. Worked well and I won a blue ribbon at the fair. They said it was nicely made, so my adaptation is officially a "design element" not a mistake!


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## Katieknits (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for this information. I've bookmarked this &#128211;as I know it will come in handy. Those are beautiful sweaters you knitted. :thumbup:


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> I agree.... However after reading the post by disgo... Different fibers will provide more or less "stretch" rather than EASE, but stretch and ease work similarly, so it counts the same..... Right?!?!?😳😳😁😁😜😜


I was not referring to the stretch of the yarn in figuring ease of the garment. For me, stretch of the yarn is a factor after the item is worn for awhile.

I have much more experience in dressmaking than I do knitting. Some of the principles that apply to sewing clothing also apply to knitting clothing. For example, if I were to gather sheer fabric as tightly as I could, I could pack a lot of fabric into that ruffle. If it were a wide ruffle such as on a curtain valance, it would be lovely. If I were to gather a piece of heavy denim as tightly as I could, unless it were several feet wide, it would stick straight out from the base it was sewn to.

A sweater knit from thin yarn can get away with being much bigger around than the wearer because it can drape gracefully around the body. The same wide sweater knit from thick yarn would not drape gracefully, but be more like wearing a tent. That may work for maternity tops, maybe not so flattering for everyone else.

Stretch of the yarn may come in to play in a sweater or other garment knit sideways. I am not pencil thin, sweaters and tops that sag longer than their original length don't look good on me. Who wants a sweater to end up around their knees after a couple of hours? Not me!!! Sideways knit sweaters seem to be in all the magazines now, but I avoid them because I know they will distort out of shape and look awful after a few hours. I've had this happen with acrylic yarn also, so I believe it is the direction of the knitting and not so much the yarn fiber.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

amoamarone said:


> I made this and love it. It came out really big at the bottom (maybe because I lost 20 pounds) but watch your gauge just in case! To deal with the fit, I added reverse pleats on the sides at the bottom. Worked well and I won a blue ribbon at the fair. They said it was nicely made, so my adaptation is officially a "design element" not a mistake!


Thank you for the tips!!


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

disgo said:


> For all the others wanting to go off topic because you have some sort of dislike or disrespect for others, please be civil for a change as there are new people watching and mortified.


Yay! Thank you for saying this!


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

After my last post, I though "oh no!" I don't make many items that fit close to the body, but stretch of the yarn would be a big factor here. Years ago, I had a friend who decided to sew her young teen daughter a one piece swimsuit. The pattern was sized to be sewn from 2-way stretch lycra, which is the fabric my friend bought. She was horrified when she looked at the pattern, thinking it was much much too small. So, she made it bigger, as if she were using woven fabric. As you can guess, the swim suit hung on the poor young lady like a feed sack!

The first knit beanie hat I made, for myself fortunately, I didn't have a clue about using negative ease. The pattern was designed for a rolled brim and so was a little longer from the cast on edge to the top of the hat. I was so excited.....got the hat sewn up and put it on.....it slid down over my eyes!!! I still have that hat, but I only wear it when no one is looking because I love the yarn. I know, I should take it apart and re-do it.....someday....

I've also wondered about hand knit swim suits. They were fairly popular in the late 70's and early 80's. Even if you got it to fit perfectly when dry, I was a little nervous about what would happen when the suit got wet. Talk about some embarrassing moments! And, don't ask me about what ever happened to the granny square bikini's.......you probably don't want to know! When I first saw that granny squares were popular again in clothing, I really had a good laugh! Someone here posted a picture (a long time ago) of some granny square shorts, on a real live person. I laughed so hard, I almost wet myself. The photo was supposed to be of a repurposed old afghan. Some people are much much braver than me!


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

snip of longer post:


JoyceinNC said:


> When I first saw that granny squares were popular again in clothing, I really had a good laugh! Someone here posted a picture (a long time ago) of some granny square shorts, on a real live person. I laughed so hard, I almost wet myself. The photo was supposed to be of a repurposed old afghan. Some people are much much braver than me!


OT/Wednesday we stopped at Busy Beaver on the way home from a Dr. appointment. My husband and I part ways as soon as we walk into the store so I missed the whole adventure until the very end. A man in his late 40's, maybe, came into the store with his pants down showing his entire bare butt and did all his shopping that way while the women stared at him. Finally a woman walked up to my husband and asked him to tell the man to pull his pants up. My husband did it and do you know what the man said...'bite me.' My husband told the women what he said and they said 'thank you' for trying. He finished his shopping, paid and walked out the door the same way he came in. My husband found me and told me to stay away from the check-out as I was ready. Me...I kept walking and did see the guy, his bare butt. I asked all the other women at the check-out if they looked and the answer was 'yes' and none of us were impressed with his 'show and tell' moment. Now what are the odds of women shopping that day and no guys around except for my husband. 
And no one had a cell phone to call 911. The whole point of this is to say I would have loved to see him wearing the re-purposed afghan shorts and underwear with a belt.


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

jeannietta said:


> Great! I finished the left sleeve (thanks to your help it fits perfectly) and am almost done with the right. Onto the pocket design and the belt (maybe) and I'm done!!


Don't do what I did and forget to hit the row counter, one of my sleeves is a little longer than the other! It's really only noticeable to me and with all the work going into the motif, if was not going to go back to correct 😝.

I know what you mean about the belt, I left it off. Some of the finished projects look fine with it.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Thank you. I bookmarked it and will read to understand and may help to understand some of these posts.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Katsch said:


> Thanks! I thought it was worth sharing too.


Thank you again. MY previous post was to you.


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## jeannietta (Mar 14, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> Don't do what I did and forget to hit the row counter, one of my sleeves is a little longer than the other! It's really only noticeable to me and with all the work going into the motif, if was not going to go back to correct 😝.
> 
> I know what you mean about the belt, I left it off. Some of the finished projects look fine with it.


Thanks for the tip. I always count rows and write down the numbers. Helpful for the next one! By the time I finished the decreases I was ready for the wrist pattern. Then 4 rows of seed (I used seed throughout instead of garter) and I bound off.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

guen12 said:


> I thought AK's post was very interesting. I am a very inexperienced knitter compared to a lot of the posters. I hope AK, disgo and any of the others that are more interested in sharing knitting info keep "sharing". I am amazed at how some of the posters are able to read a post where someone gives a few lines of a pattern and some of you know exactly what has to be done. I will consider the rest as just "entertainment" no matter how disrespectful and rude the comments. All you longtime, experienced knitters keep sharing you knowledge.


Ditto! Haven't thought about N&P ease for me because I like boxy patterns. Hope to try a fitted pattern someday and disgo and others info will "ease" the fear of trying.


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> snip of longer post:
> 
> OT/Wednesday we stopped at Busy Beaver on the way home from a Dr. appointment. My husband and I part ways as soon as we walk into the store so I missed the whole adventure until the very end. A man in his late 40's, maybe, came into the store with his pants down showing his entire bare butt and did all his shopping that way while the women stared at him. Finally a woman walked up to my husband and asked him to tell the man to pull his pants up. My husband did it and do you know what the man said...'bite me.' My husband told the women what he said and they said 'thank you' for trying. He finished his shopping, paid and walked out the door the same way he came in. My husband found me and told me to stay away from the check-out as I was ready. Me...I kept walking and did see the guy, his bare butt. I asked all the other women at the check-out if they looked and the answer was 'yes' and none of us were impressed with his 'show and tell' moment. Now what are the odds of women shopping that day and no guys around except for my husband.
> And no one had a cell phone to call 911. The whole point of this is to say I would have loved to see him wearing the re-purposed afghan shorts and underwear with a belt.


hahahahahaha! It would be my luck he would wear the peek-a-boo granny square shorts without any undies! Ugh....


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Thanks, that was nicely explained. I'll have ways to go until I get to really getting my things always fitting the way I want them, but I'll learn. And I always appreciate getting help here in the forum.


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## sockit2me (Jan 26, 2013)

"Fashion knitting" is always subject to different perceptions of fit and ease.
When I was writing custom patterns for a high end yarn shop in the early 1980s, the prevailing fashion was for close fitting garments with puff or top gathered sleeves. It was very important to calculate the decrease in the armhole to go from the larger bust measurement to the smaller natural shoulder line. The puff sleeve cap had to sit at the top of the shoulder and the sleeve would taper rather snugly to the wrist. There was minimal ease in the body and the entire "look" was very fitted. By the mid to late 1980s the new fashion trend was toward the "big shoulder" look. Sweaters were then looser, longer and hung from very large shoulder pads that extended well beyond the natural shoulder. Set in sleeves were replaced by drop shoulder design. This look had lots of ease and drape. (Much easier to write patterns and easier to disguise figure flaws!) "Classic" sweater styles and men's sweaters remain fairly constant in the way they are designed to fit and it is up to the wearer to decide how much ease they like in their garment by choosing their size.


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

Amy, I pm'd you a question.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

knitbreak said:


> Thank you again. MY previous post was to you.


You're welcome, I thought it was a great site with good information.


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## Jeanie L (Sep 27, 2011)

Good advice..Thank you Amy.


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## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

JoRae said:


> This was the most heartwarming post from disgo and response from AmyKnits. It touched my heart.


It touched my heart, too.


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## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

disgo said:


> Coming from the same professional background you and I pick up things most have not been trained to do and depend on us. I had picked up your creative vibe the moment I first joined KP. You are extremely talented and well focused so do not change on any account as that is what makes you a unique commodity in this crazy changing bad/good world of infovideos etc.
> 
> Your last photo shows you have the ease concept well in tow since your tucked front lays perfectly without distortion or drag lines. I forget to mention drapers as I was not taught that method but was merely touched on in class. They incorporate ease with all their tucking and make it difficult for others to duplicate since the fabric is used in the process. As you already know even if using the marked tucks and the identical fabric another will not be able to duplicate the original. Good example being the deceased designers gown a dress maker for Jane Fonda tried to reproduce and in my opinion making a very poor copy for her to wear to a gala this year. They were unable to get the concept of the wrap correct which was the whole idea of the original gown--one huge simple wrap but very couture in construction. The same held true for the design student that blogged on how she was recreating an Adrian suit made for Joan Crawford. She went to a man's tailor to learn tailoring not realizing the two are entirely different and made purposefully so. She ended up with a very nice mens suit for a woman.
> 
> ...


Disgo, It is fascinating to read your posts and marvel at your experience. You, Amy and Jessica-Jean would make quite a team with any creative project. Maybe you could all meet here at our house.


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## lorraine 55 (Aug 8, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> ACTUALLY --- That quote came from YOU, not another poster.
> ~~ said "either blue links or nasty comments" as your only contributions.
> 
> Besides -- so what if I like to fulfill people's pattern requests.
> ...


You have posted some very helpful links, Thank You!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

lorraine 55 said:


> You have posted some very helpful links, Thank You!


You are very welcome.


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## baglady1104 (Apr 10, 2011)

Thank you, Amy, for some very helpful information. I've bookmarked it.


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

For sweaters for our DS who lives about 1800 miles away, I use both his measurements and the measurements of his favorite sweater. I can adjust the measurements of the current pattern based on style and how he would like this particular style to fit.


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> I accept the fact that knitters do this, however I rarely WANT a sweater to fit EXACTLY the same as another.... I knit all different styles, designs and patterns, so this simply would not work for me.
> 
> I have lots of "favorite" sweaters and they are all knitted to fit ME (actual bust measurement 33") but all measure different measurements across the chest when finished.
> 
> I just don't understand WHICH "favorite" sweater I would measure as a guide for ANY others as they ALL measure very differently in the same area (chest).


I especially like the charcoal grey sweater.


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## chrisjac (Oct 25, 2011)

Just a little note I keep in my work room. Nice and neat and to the point. No fancy stuff here. Courtesy of Lion Brand.

About Patterns: How much ease do I need for my garment?

With all sweater patterns, the amount of "ease" or looseness is a personal preference. Negative ease is a measurement smaller than your body measurement to create a tight fitting garment. Positive ease is a measurement larger than your body for a looser fit. The best way to decide on any size is to measure a sweater that you own (whose fit you like) and check the pattern schematic or measurements to choose a size you like. 

Here's a general fit guideline: 

Very close = 0 ease 

Close Fit = chest + 1 - 2 inches ease 

Standard Fit = chest + 2 - 4 inches ease 

Loose Fit = chest + 4 - 6 inches ease 

Oversized = chest + 6 inches and up


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

chrisjac said:


> Just a little note I keep in my work room. Nice and neat and to the point. No fancy stuff here. Courtesy of Lion Brand.
> 
> About Patterns: How much ease do I need for my garment?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## craftyone51 (Nov 22, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> I believe this is the one you are interested in...
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-347753-1.html


Amy, your sweater is so cute and looks wonderful on you.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-358067-1.html


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## lorraine 55 (Aug 8, 2011)

chrisjac said:


> Just a little note I keep in my work room. Nice and neat and to the point. No fancy stuff here. Courtesy of Lion Brand.
> 
> About Patterns: How much ease do I need for my garment?
> 
> ...


That is very helpful!


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

thank you for this explanation. your knitting is always lovely.


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## chrisjac (Oct 25, 2011)

lorraine 55 said:


> That is very helpful!


Glad I could help.


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## Nushie01079 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thank you for explaining this in terms that I can understand.


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## Nushie01079 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thank You for explaining so even us novice knitters can understand.


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