# Brother KH 800 Lace Machine



## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

If anyone else out there owns a brother KH 800 lace machine and would be interested in talking with me I would love to chat with you about this unusual machine. I understand it's a workhorse and this one luckily is in beautiful condition however it's a lot different from your typical brother machine and I'm doing my best to learn it. 

The manual refers to a ribber and I have yet to find one available. Has anyone ever heard or used one? I'm hoping with all of the many KP's out there that a kind and helpful machine knitter can help with some questions I have regarding the many buttons and levers on this machine.


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

The Brother KH800 was an awkward transition from the KH710 ....to the punchcard machines that were produced after it...
The 800 still requires the use of the 'set lever' to select the needles for fairisle or multi-color work....The Pattern Center is more tedious to use than the later punchcard machines...

It originally only came with 10 sets of Operation Cards and Pattern Card Cassettes ....and 20 blank cards....

There was a stitch pattern book sold for this machine called "Brother Cassette Pattern"...If you don't have it....buy one...

The ribbers that will fit this machine are: KR580/586/587/810.. For the 586 and 587 ribbers you would need to find the adapter pieces that allow you to keep the extension rails on the machine if the ribber is attached...

I suggest you read through the manual...and perform the stitch patterns that are in it...You will become more familiar with knob/lever/buttons and their functions this way...
But if you have any questions....by all means..ask...


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## quill-ws (Jul 30, 2014)

Hello, I have never had the Brother 800 K.M., but had a 710 & Ribber, several years ago, I loved using it, but eventually the buttons would not work properly. I had brought it second hand anyway. My favourite item was a White Stole which I still have, it was at the back of my wardrobe & I had forgotten it was there. I thought, "Did I make this?" I then remembered it taking quite a long time because I had repeated basic Lace patterning throughout the length of the Stole. I made Double Crochet, ( U.S. Single Crochet ), along the Length each side & Fringes along the Width/s. I will probably wear it on Christmas Day. I have the chance to buy a 710 after Christmas, I have to re-try it as it has been moved several times since I 1st saw it. I have a spare Needle Retaining Bar, I know it needs one, no idea how long it has been unused, & it needs a good clean & oiling as you can imagine! From, Susan, U.K.


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for your very helpful information and advice about the Brother Cassette Pattern book. I'll be sure to search for it.

I have to go slow with this machine because of the manual adjustments that need to be made for most rows, which is good so that I remember to check my knitting carefully because believe me that when you drop a stitch on this fine gauge machine it becomes a major problem.The results will, or so I hope, be very delicate and lovely. 

Susan, I would love to see a picture of your shawl

Wish me luck LOL


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## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

The brother cassette book can be downloaded here (3 parts)

http://app.box.com/shared/3g5d0rq9q7/1/834136744


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for your help regarding the download but it appears it's no long there.


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## dancewithmarg (Oct 2, 2012)

I tried the link and it still works.


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## Judyannm (Oct 11, 2012)

I have found that if you're trying to download from the Box site you cannot do to a mobile device but you can from a laptop or regular computer.


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

I have to go slow with this machine because of the manual adjustments that need to be made for most rows, which is good so that I remember to check my knitting carefully because believe me that when you drop a stitch on this fine gauge machine it becomes a major problem.The results will, or so I hope, be very delicate and lovely. 
Wish me luck LOL[/quote]

Your KH800 is a 'standard gauge'(4.5mm)machine...with a 12 stitch pattern repeat capability......
If you have not changed your 'sponge bar'(needle retaining bar)....I would advise doing so....In the back of your manual it gives instructions for changing a needle....this is also how you would replace the sponge bar....A flat sponge bar could be the reason that you are dropping stitches.....
Here is a place that you can order a new sponge bar ....The Knitting Closet is located in Florida:
http://www.theknittingcloset.com/pd_sponge.cfm


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## alan.codyre (Nov 4, 2013)

this is a lovely machine which had a lot of advantages like being able to do lace and tuck in the same row easily (pull up lace etc) and it was easy to create your own patterns. It also was capable of intarsia with the main carriage although the manual didn't mention this. I found that if the punch didn't make a clean hole, punch the card the opposite side and turn it over so the pins could read the pattern. It was a brilliant machine and very advanced for it's time and is well worth learning all it can do. hope this helps.


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## charmknits (Jan 26, 2014)

I have this book but went to the link to see if I could download. It said download had started but see nothing else. I'm confused.
The book is fantastic for this machine. Included are 402 punchcard designs with pictures of each, 12 garment patterns, and lots of instruction. Lace done on this machine is the best! 
I commend whoever scanned all this as there are 304 pages. 
I do hope you can download this. It is so good!


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

charmknits said:


> I have this book but went to the link to see if I could download. It said download had started but see nothing else. I'm confused.
> 
> It takes awhile to download...depending on the speed of your computer.......Give it a few minutes.....when the download is complete....it will be visible...


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## quill-ws (Jul 30, 2014)

Hello fluffymahoot, I will have to find out how to post a photo on the Forum, I am not as advanced on my computer as some of you on this site. It sounds like you have a very good model of K.M. From, Susan, U.K.


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

Thank you so very much for all of your kind suggestions and help AND encouragement. I am so grateful to this group and its wonderful members. Merry Christmas to you all.


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## charmknits (Jan 26, 2014)

charmknits said:


> I have this book but went to the link to see if I could download. It said download had started but see nothing else. I'm confused.
> The book is fantastic for this machine. Included are 402 punchcard designs with pictures of each, 12 garment patterns, and lots of instruction. Lace done on this machine is the best!
> I commend whoever scanned all this as there are 304 pages.
> I do hope you can download this. It is so good!


I must make a correction to this old post. There are close to 1000 punchcard designs in this book! These are 12 stitch designs.


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## charmknits (Jan 26, 2014)

charmknits said:


> I have this book but went to the link to see if I could download. It said download had started but see nothing else. I'm confused.
> The book is fantastic for this machine. Included are 402 punchcard designs with pictures of each, 12 garment patterns, and lots of instruction. Lace done on this machine is the best!
> I commend whoever scanned all this as there are 304 pages.
> I do hope you can download this. It is so good!


Just looked at my book and there are 968 card designs!!!!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

Well I know this is another old thread but I also have this machine and am pretty excited about it. I love the kitchsy turquoisey green. I am cleaning one as we speak. No cards but everything else but the latch tool and K-carriage dial cover. It's cleaning up nicely. People seem to love these machines, but info is hard to find.

How did you do intarsia on it? I can't find what intarsia carriage is compatible. Thank you


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

How's it going? I have this machine and look forward to getting it up and running. I love your profile pic!


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks! I haven't done as much with this machine as I had hoped to but I do have it set up and covered with a sheet so it doesn't get dusty. You are inspiring me and I will give it a go after the new year and will also attempt to download this book mentioned above. I would love to hear how it's working for you and I am excited to do somethings with this great old machine particularly since I love lace.


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

gonnaknit said:


> How did you do intarsia on it? I can't find what intarsia carriage is compatible. Thank you


There is no intarsia carriage for your KH800.....and your manual has no instructions....so I'm referring you to the KH710 manual on pages 33-35....
http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-kh710-user-guide-guide.html 
The only difference between the 710 and 800 carriages is the look and location of the 'holding cam lever(s)'....Your 800 needs to be set to #3 on the slide dial for plain(stockinette)knitting.....All other settings/instructions are identical...


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

Tallie9 said:


> There is no intarsia carriage for your KH800.....and your manual has no instructions....so I'm referring you to the KH710 manual on pages 33-35....
> http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-kh710-user-guide-guide.html
> The only difference between the 710 and 800 carriages is the look and location of the 'holding cam lever(s)'....Your 800 needs to be set to #3 on the slide dial for plain(stockinette)knitting.....All other settings/instructions are identical...


Thank you! You are an impressive font of knowledge.


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

Fluffymahoot said:


> Thanks! I haven't done as much with this machine as I had hoped to but I do have it set up and covered with a sheet so it doesn't get dusty. You are inspiring me and I will give it a go after the new year and will also attempt to download this book mentioned above. I would love to hear how it's working for you and I am excited to do somethings with this great old machine particularly since I love lace.


I love lace too - there's a little rattle in the lace carriage which I hope will not be a problem. I need to open that up. Do you know what 20 original designs came with this. Maybe, sometime we can work through some of the manual together. I took the bed out of the case and cleaned it. I also took out all the needles and took apart the K-carriage to clean. It's super smooth now. I need to cover mine too!


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## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

This study guide was written for the KH800
http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-home-knitting-tuition.html


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

Thank you so much! That is cool!


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

MKEtc.com said:


> This study guide was written for the KH800
> http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-home-knitting-tuition.html


Has anyone had any problems downloading this study guide? I would love to be able to get this.


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## Azzara (Jan 23, 2014)

Fluffymahoot said:


> Has anyone had any problems downloading this study guide? I would love to be able to get this.


It downloads for me but it did take awhile to start.


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## keetza (Feb 6, 2016)

I was given the Brother KH800 by someone who bought it at a tag sale. It was all in pieces and took some work to restore - it now knits beautifully. I have found some designs in old Alle's books had 'strange' patterns were actually specific to this machine - this information and the Brother Cassette book helped me to understand the workings of the 800. Enjoy your find - it is a wonderful machine.


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

keetza said:


> I was given the Brother KH800 by someone who bought it at a tag sale. It was all in pieces and took some work to restore - it now knits beautifully. I have found some designs in old Alle's books had 'strange' patterns were actually specific to this machine - this information and the Brother Cassette book helped me to understand the workings of the 800. Enjoy your find - it is a wonderful machine.


Yes, it does take time to take one apart, clean it and put it back together. I can't find a book by Alle, but there are books by John Allen. Do you have more details about the book you are talking about? I'd love to check it out!


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## Fluffymahoot (Jul 12, 2011)

oops


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## ornicar66 (Jan 26, 2015)

My aunt owns a KH-800 with the ribber and the table and all the manuals. She knitted dozens of sweaters with it for the last 40 years or so. She accidentally dropped the lace carriage on the floor. It doesn't seem damaged bu may require adjustments. I found the service manual on the web, but it doesn't say much about the lace carriage. If anyone could send me a detailed picture of the bottom of the lace carriage (turned upside down) I could figure out how to adjust it correctly. Thank you.


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

ornicar66 said:


> My aunt owns a KH-800 with the ribber and the table and all the manuals. She knitted dozens of sweaters with it for the last 40 years or so. She accidentally dropped the lace carriage on the floor. It doesn't seem damaged bu may require adjustments. I found the service manual on the web, but it doesn't say much about the lace carriage. If anyone could send me a detailed picture of the bottom of the lace carriage (turned upside down) I could figure out how to adjust it correctly. Thank you.


Tried taking pics for you but my camera isn't cooperating....If you post a few pics...I'll at least be able to compare with my lace carriage to see if anything obvious stands out...


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## ornicar66 (Jan 26, 2015)

Here how it looks. I cleaned it once, but I'm wondering if I didn't invert the left and right leaf springs (the oddly shaped spring plates right over the brushes) when I disassembled the parts for cleaning. My aunt says the stitches keep dropping so she stopped using it. When I tried it, the working needles were bending a lot before dropping the stitches. On the second picture, I wanted to show the way the black metal rails and the leaf springs are placed, so the needle has to move along in that circuit.
According to the drawings in the service manual, my carriage seems correctly reassembled, but I noted in the manual that the adjustments must be very precise.
Tell me if I'm right or wrong. Thanks.

Rémi


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

ornicar66 said:


> Here how it looks. I cleaned it once, but I'm wondering if I didn't invert the left and right leaf springs (the oddly shaped spring plates right over the brushes) when I disassembled the parts for cleaning. My aunt says the stitches keep dropping so she stopped using it. When I tried it, the working needles were bending a lot before dropping the stitches. On the second picture, I wanted to show the way the black metal rails and the leaf springs are placed, so the needle has to move along in that circuit.
> According to the drawings in the service manual, my carriage seems correctly reassembled, but I noted in the manual that the adjustments must be very precise.
> Tell me if I'm right or wrong. Thanks.
> Rémi


Referring to pic#1....The leaf springs appear to be oriented correctly...the tips of them appear to be bent...should be straightened....
Referring to pic#2....The edge of the leaf spring should be level with plate cam 'B' that is front of it...
I couldn't find the Service Manual for the KH800....so I used the one for the KH588.....The lace carriages are identical....Not sure if the 2 pages are the same instructions as yours...so I added the download site....Page 21 gives the instructions/specs for dropped stitches...Page 22 if the carriage is dropped.....Yes... you have to make those measured adjustments...
http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-kh588-service-manual.html


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## ornicar66 (Jan 26, 2015)

In the service manual for the KH-800 (yes, it exists: http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-kh800-service-manual.html ) it doesn't say much about the lace carriage, only that they are referring to the KH-588 service manual, which I already downloaded. I could've posted a dozen pictures, but the close-ups are blurry and there is not enough space to see correctly, not much help. But thank you for the tips, I'll try to adjust the parts and fix it. It's probably pretty nothing after all. I'll let you know.


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## ornicar66 (Jan 26, 2015)

Finally, I adjusted the lace carriage directly on the main bed, as stated in the service manual. I took your advice and also studied the manual. And it was mostly question of fine tuning the parts, nothing was broken or badly bent. After a few tests with scrap yarn, it was working almost every time! Maybe later I'll have to make some adjustments again, but now I know how to proceed! The only thing is to be very precise in your adjustments.
By the way, it's totally normal that the working needle bends a lot. It has to, so it will drop the stitch on the needle next to it in the direction your are pushing the carriage. Sometimes the stitch was dropping on the gate peg (or sinker post) instead of the next needle. In that case, you have to adjust slightly the forwarding claws in front of the carriage. All that to say that she will eventually use her lace carriage again, starting with simple motifs.


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## gonnaknit (Dec 13, 2016)

So ironic. I sold my 800 and had to practice ically rip it out of my own hands but I’ve been knitting on my KH-891 today with the lace carriage. A few things I learned. 

Make SURE I pass the lace carriage pass the “trip” mark ( don’t know what to call it) at the end of the bed every time with the lace carriage. 

Check every row as I go along to make sure stitches don’t end up on the posts. And be sure that the knitting isn’t caught on any posts. 

And weight it properly. Not too little and not too much. 

I want to try to use the cams so that I can have an edging on this project. 

I so wish that they had made a lace carriage for the bulky. The lace carriage to me seems a little sensitive to having the right weight of yarn. It does have two settings for normal and fine. But I don’t see it doing sport weight that well, which is what I’m working on right now. I think fingering or lighter would be best. Definitely no DK for me. 

So glad you got it working. I have heard the lace carriage can be very finicky and a little hard to fix. My KH – 891 was a real beater. I’ve been piecing it together because I didn’t have the money to buy one that was complete IN
perfect condition. When I had the belt replaced the tech tested the lace carriage And ran samples for me because I told him I wanted to knit lace. It can be a bit of a mind bender bc I am a hand knitter.


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## sdBev (Jan 23, 2018)

ornicar66 said:


> ... it's totally normal that the working needle bends a lot....


But scary!

Congrats! When the lace carriage is mastered, the most beautiful garments result.


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