# Beautiful sweater what is that stitch?



## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

I would like to attempt this in a top down
I have never seen this stitch before anyone recognize it?


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## Sagarika (Jul 17, 2012)

Beautiful, unable to find the pattern, when you get it , can you give the link?


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## monkeypants4926 (Jan 20, 2013)

WOW...this is beautiful,I hope you find a pattern name to share!


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## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Looks almost like Xmas trees..


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## Dlclose (Jun 26, 2011)

jonibee said:


> Looks almost like Xmas trees..


I thought it looked like arrows!


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

This is a lace arrow. Knit top down would almost be the same 
http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=2479


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

It was pinned from a site "slufoot" They no longer sell the sweater. It is not a pattern. I would like to attempt to make one, and be happy to share what I come up with but I need to find the stitch....perhaps a Japanese or Russian stitch...


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Little roofs? not quite but would make a nice sweater too
http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=1163

would have to be knit from the bottom up though


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## Rainyday (Jul 9, 2013)

Dlclose said:


> I thought it looked like arrows!


Yes my 1st thought was arrow heads. It reminded me of a collection of arrows that I saw in a castle when I was a little girl.
Gosh! Just fancy I can actually remember back that far. LOL.


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## Mevbb (Sep 5, 2011)

Beautiful stitch. It would make a nice throw. Looks like little pine trees to me.


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## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

looks like it is done in a heavy weight yarn?


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## rainie (Jan 12, 2013)

Does an enlargement help?


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## mewfn (Mar 1, 2013)

Yep! The enlargement definitely shows that the stitch is close but neither of the two stitches linked. Closer to the first one, however.


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## babsbarb (Dec 23, 2012)

Nice sweater. I hope you find the pattern.
But what's with the skirt??


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## Mary Diaz (Mar 30, 2012)

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/flower-buds-cloth


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## mewfn (Mar 1, 2013)

Pretty, but still not it!


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

mewfn said:


> Pretty, but still not it!


I agree that is pretty. but alas not it...

Hey Wouldn't it be neat if we could put an image under a scanner like the paint store and it would print out your stitch pattern .......?


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

It may be close if knit with chunky or super chunky yarn and larger needles of course
https://www.knitca.com/lace6


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

rainie said:


> Does an enlargement help?


Yes! it does. thank-you :thumbup:


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

lovely pattern, hope you find it.


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## Ozebeaver (Dec 9, 2012)

Could it be this with purl instead of knit sts in the centre?
The picture looks to me to show a 6 row rpt and I was counting a 5 + 1 stitch count and this is 4 plus 2.

http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=2170


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

run4fittness said:


> lovely pattern, hope you find it.


Thanks,,I am sure going to try,,,,


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Ozebeaver said:


> Could it be this with purl instead of knit sts in the centre?
> The picture looks to me to show a 6 row rpt and I was counting a 5 + 1 stitch count and this is 4 plus 2.
> 
> http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=2170


Hmmmm It might just work,,,I am going to mess around with that tomorrow and see ,,also with chunky yarn I think I can figure something out...


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## Ozebeaver (Dec 9, 2012)

MomBeezzzz said:


> Hmmmm It might just work,,,I am going to mess around with that tomorrow and see ,,also with chunky yarn I think I can figure something out...


I think the chunky yarn will make all the difference filling in yo's that are clearly visible with fine yarn. It has a really lovely textural look to it. I hope that it is the one.


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Ozebeaver said:


> I think the chunky yarn will make all the difference filling in yo's that are clearly visible with fine yarn. It has a really lovely textural look to it. I hope that it is the one.


Thanks for your help ,,,yep I feel the yarn will make a huge difference too....wish me luck


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## nankat (Oct 17, 2012)

You guys are terrific. I don't know how you find these things, answer these unique questions. I do enjoy following your path.


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## sandra k (Dec 7, 2011)

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Service unavailable."



MomBeezzzz said:


> This is a lace arrow. Knit top down would almost be the same
> http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=2479


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## Shelly4545 (Oct 4, 2011)

Very pretty and interesting.... Will watch everyone's posts.....


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## JanRosa (Apr 12, 2012)

I Goggled Arrow Knitting Stitches and found this - http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/ - It looks thinner but with a Bulky Yarn looks like it has promise.


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## Catarry (Apr 10, 2012)

JanRosa said:


> I Goggled Arrow Knitting Stitches and found this - http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/ - It looks thinner but with a Bulky Yarn looks like it has promise.


OOOps had to delete my post...spoke too soon.


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## Kajacee (Apr 13, 2012)

rainie said:


> Does an enlargement help?


Wow! That really is a beautiful stitch!


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

It is a beautiful stitch


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## May (Jan 18, 2011)

What a neat stitch. I like top-down sweaters too... I suppose the pattern could be reversed? Have never done that but if it is not done bottom-up, there would be no little roofs...
Has anybody reversed a stitch pattern?



MomBeezzzz said:


> Little roofs? not quite but would make a nice sweater too
> http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=1163
> 
> would have to be knit from the bottom up though


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Well this produced a number of nice stitches to share. Unfortunately, not the right one. It looks like there are some cross over stitches from a row or 2 below but so hard to see in the picture.

would it be worth your time to try and contact the mftr/designer for a solution?

this may also be a machine knit that could do some intricate maneuvers hard to translate onto manual needles.


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## Altaskier (Apr 18, 2013)

I vote for Knitting Fool arrow heads. Be sure to share a picture when you finish the sweater. Beautiful stitch pattern.


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## victory (Jan 4, 2014)

Great sweater


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## rainie (Jan 12, 2013)

JanRosa said:


> I Goggled Arrow Knitting Stitches and found this - http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/ - It looks thinner but with a Bulky Yarn looks like it has promise.


That is going into my stitches&tips folder right now.


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## njbetsy (Apr 18, 2012)

I think it is beautiful.


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## lovehomemade (Sep 11, 2011)

that looks like it to me


JanRosa said:


> I Goggled Arrow Knitting Stitches and found this - http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/ - It looks thinner but with a Bulky Yarn looks like it has promise.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

damemary said:


> "Service unavailable."


That is what I keep getting too.. I can get into KnittingFool.com but none of the links work! I wonder if its overload? too many of us using the site at once


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## rainie (Jan 12, 2013)

Another view. Be careful of pointy parts of your body. Elbows look dangerous to the stitch.


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## joand'5 (Aug 27, 2011)

Oh, how beautiful!


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

Love this discussion...the pictures up close are very helpful...
julie


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## clegrant (Sep 29, 2012)

I agree this is beautiful. Quite different.

Chere


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## Dashiell (Aug 21, 2011)

Very interesting looking forward to the outcome


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## yona (Feb 7, 2011)

For some reason, I think I remember seeing this stitch in one of Nicky Epstein's books. Unfortunately, I cannot get to my NE book collection as all my books, mags etc.. are still packed away in boxes from my recent move from Calif to NY.... arrrrr

It is a gorgeous stitch and sweater.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Very unusual stitch...please let us know if you work this out.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

I have the translation and a small chart from the original Russian site where this appeared, courtesy of Yandex site which translates any URL to most other languages. Here is the translated page from a blog page I created to save the translated htm.

There is no chart for the sweater, but there is a chart for the pattern repeat on my blog page.
http://beadannex.blogspot.com/2014/08/published-lerachka-in-personal-diary.html

I used Yandex to translate the page. I cannot link to a translation like that because it is saved on my hard drive and will not upload as an htm.
I used google to find the pattern using the image from the original poster.

Hope it shows. If not it is on my blog and I can try again to link to it here.


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## vernagreenan (Aug 7, 2011)

Love the sweater and the stitch. Turmaline This looks the the right stitch. Wish we could get the english for the explanation of the stitches on the chart. Thanks for the chart.


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks MomBeezzzz for posting the picture of this very unique stitch. I love to try new stitches I haven't seen before. I'm sure Turmaline's post is the exact same stitch you were looking for. I've copied it to a blank document and saved it...wondering what it would look like in lace weight yarn...thanks Turmaline!


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

It would be simple to translate the chart to words. But you still have to make a gauge swatch, calculate from the 4 inch swatch now many to cast on etc. You get to design the sweater your self. No sweater chart is given. The Russian chart has lots of similar but lacier stitch patterns. I limited myself to one.

Of course a lap robe or an afghan will take less figuring and still look pretty.


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## kyterp (Mar 3, 2011)

Thank you Turmaline. The symbols baffle me although I have tried to look them up on the computer. Are you able to decipher them?


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

I think the symbols are pretty much the universal knitting ones except the circle with the slash through it probably represents a Yarn Over, in the US we use just the circle for a YO. Some experimenting with a swatch should solve the problem.

I have a book for translating knitting words in several languages, maybe others have that too, published about 15 years ago? Can't seem to locate it.

It is a tremendous help to see the chart, thank you... the rest sould be easy


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## nankat (Oct 17, 2012)

This is a fascinating process. Want to see the end result..or even a work in progress.


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## JanRosa (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree. But if you notice there is a circle AND a circle with a slash. Must mean there are 2 separate stitches.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

JanRosa said:


> I agree. But if you notice there is a circle AND a circle with a slash. Must mean there are 2 separate stitches.


I cannot find what this Ø means.
O is a YO
dark dots are purl on both sides
There are no even rows, so it looks like every even row is purled on the wrong side.

I have found tons of knit symbol charts, how to make them on the computer on excel in word etc etc.
When it comes to definitions, Ø does not exist.

Looking more,


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

JanRosa said:


> I agree. But if you notice there is a circle AND a circle with a slash. Must mean there are 2 separate stitches.


You are right! I wonder if the slash relates to the direction of the wrap???...I am going to try swatching soon.

If we all input, we might get there ..its been done before on KP.


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

MomBeezzzz said:


> This is a lace arrow. Knit top down would almost be the same
> http://knittingfool.com/StitchIndex/StitchDetail.aspx?StitchID=2479


Doesn't look like the sweater she posted.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

I am going to get a human to translate those symbols especially the Ø.

May take a day or so.


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## Liz at Furze (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm not a very experienced knitter but does it seem as if there is some sort of 'cabling' going on through the pattern blocks?


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Turmaline said:


> I have the translation and a small chart from the original Russian site where this appeared, courtesy of Yandex site which translates any URL to most other languages. Here is the translated page from a blog page I created to save the translated htm.
> 
> There is no chart for the sweater, but there is a chart for the pattern repeat on my blog page.
> http://beadannex.blogspot.com/2014/08/published-lerachka-in-personal-diary.html
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~This is it! Am saving the info...Thanks! Also:
This would likely be a bit of research involved, but I have found this chart Bibliography that I plan to use....trying to see if I can come up with a translation myself. Will let you know if I find success.
http://www.knittingfool.com/Reference/KF_Symbols.aspx


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## JanRosa (Apr 12, 2012)

Check this pattern out.

http://st.stranamam.ru/data/cache/2014jan/17/27/10815990_67337thumb500.jpg


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Wow when the cat is away,You have all been amazing at tracking down the source and almost have the stitch pattern down. I have been away at work for the greater part of the day with this stitch working its way around in my head,,It really got under my skin I have to make this sweater now
I still can't believe the work you have done in one day.
I think KatherynJG is right the o with the slash is the way the yarn in wrapped from the back side on the WS..which I think is actually the RS 
.Turmaline you are amazing thank you so much thank you all !! 
from alessandrina blog it looks very similar to the little leaves pattern from the back!


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## Judyh (Apr 15, 2011)

You all never cease to amaze me!!


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Turmaline said:


> I am going to get a human to translate those symbols especially the Ø.
> 
> May take a day or so.


I can wait and thank you.

Once we get the stitch figured out I recommend Ann Budd's pattern book on top down knits for coming up with a pattern..


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Here is the picture on Alessandrina's blog 
and then the picture of little leaves from knitting fool.com

Clearly there is a 5 row difference.....shoot I thought I was onto something there


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## mkilcoyne (Apr 30, 2012)

Beautiful! Be sure to post pic's of the finished project! Good luck!


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## MarieDe (Mar 27, 2011)

WOW that is a FANTASTIC stitch....yes, I wish we could all figure it out or find out where the instructions are! Im thinking if you look real close to the yarn itself, it looks like a heavily twisted/textured cotton type yarn and I'm thinking that might have a lot to do with the overall texture of the pattern itself. Looks like rev.stockinet stitch in the center with knit sts on both sides and then knitted together on a couple of rows up. like I said 
AMAZING stitch....i'm gonna try it hand knit first and then TRY to adapt it to the machine (Brother Bulky 260). IF i get it...I'll post


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

I am loving this challenge, even more now that I have a clearer direction,,,,,,


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Turmaline and Janci I look forward to your translations of the chart symbols.


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## Circular Knitter (Aug 15, 2013)

rainie said:


> Does an enlargement help?


I have gone through all the posts and websites provided on this sweater...LOVE IT!!! Somewhere it does say that it is machine knitted....but I am going to give it a go at hand knitting it with a bulky yarn. There are no actual knitting instructions except the some charts for the knitted pattern, so will have to work out all the fundamentals of number of stitches per inch-per size, etc. 
In the meantime....if ANYONE can find an actual pattern ALREADY hand knitted with the specifics, would you please let us know. 
WOW....can't wait to get started on this one!!!
By looking at the enhanced SLUFOOT photo...I could possibly figure the gauge of pattern for a size small sweater. Will keep you updated.


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Lillyhooch said:


> Turmaline and Janci I look forward to your translations of the chart symbols.


Don't have them yet....tried to find that O with the slash thru it and none of the charts I have found so far have one. Someone mentioned that it might have something to do with a yarn-over (possibility!) and the forward leaning slash mark alone means to knit two together....but I couldn't come up with a combo of those two. Any ideas?


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

What we need is a Russian speaker to translate for us. Is it worth starting a thread along the lines of 'Translation from Russian to English required'. This may well get a response.



Janci said:


> Don't have them yet....tried to find that O with the slash thru it and none of the charts I have found so far have one. Someone mentioned that it might have something to do with a yarn-over (possibility!) and the forward leaning slash mark alone means to knit two together....but I couldn't come up with a combo of those two. Any ideas?


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Lillyhooch said:


> What we need is a Russian speaker to translate for us. Is it worth starting a thread along the lines of 'Translation from Russian to English required'. This may well get a response.


Good thought....I have already Googled "Russian Knitting Charts" and there are a number of different sites that have popped up...but none of the ones I have looked at so far have that symbol on it.


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Lillyhooch said:


> What we need is a Russian speaker to translate for us. Is it worth starting a thread along the lines of 'Translation from Russian to English required'. This may well get a response.


I wonder if we have any Russian friends who follow these posts.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

There are such large numbers I would be surprised if there weren't any Russian/English speaking friends who could translate for us. By doing a separate post it may catch the attention of someone who isn't following this particular thread about the sweater.



Janci said:


> I wonder if we have any Russian friends who follow these posts.


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## Circular Knitter (Aug 15, 2013)

Janci said:


> Don't have them yet....tried to find that O with the slash thru it and none of the charts I have found so far have one. Someone mentioned that it might have something to do with a yarn-over (possibility!) and the forward leaning slash mark alone means to knit two together....but I couldn't come up with a combo of those two. Any ideas?


If you look on the link that was sent in the first posts for the Alessandrina ....there is a chart for the stitch pattern that has "A,B,C,D"...the "B" part of the chart gives the meaning of the symbols that have already translated from the Russian to English. And the O with the slash through it is a YarnOver stitch on Right Side of work and Knit Stitch on Wrong Song of work. Here is the link again....scroll down to the middle of the chart and you will see the legend for the chart.

http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Circular Knitter said:


> Somewhere it does say that it is machine knitted....but I am going to give it a go at hand knitting it with a bulky yarn.
> 
> This pattern is incredibly difficult for machine knitting. I would dare to say impossible with all the take offs required. Someone was "hoping" to machine knit it.
> In the meantime....if ANYONE can find an actual pattern ALREADY hand knitted with the specifics, would you please let us know.
> ...


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## Circular Knitter (Aug 15, 2013)

Turmaline:

I was basically answering what the O with slash in it was, and helping show that the answer was already on the chart provided in earlier posts. I thought I read on one of the websites that it was a machine knit....if that's not the case, chalk it up for misreading on my part...but someone else also thought it was machine knitted as well. I am just REALLY interested if anyone can find an actual pattern to make the sweater. 
I have been searching several sites...but I must now go to bed!! I have too stop!!


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

I have this so far
pretty Tree stitch for sweater 
cast on 29 stitches 
Row 1 edge k2, * p,yo,skpsso,p,k2-tog,yo,p,yo,skpsso, repeat from *end p, k2-tog,yo,p, edge k2
Row 2 edge k2, *knit repeat from * edge k2
Row 3 edge k2, * p2,yo,[s,k2-tog, psso],yo,p3,yo,[s,k2-tog, psso]yo,p2, repeat from *end p, k2-tog,yo,p, edge k2

But I stopped because clearly there should be knit stitches on the bottom of the tree rather than purl so it forms a chain almost of knit stitches in the triangular shape..I gotta go but will be back we are almost there, maybe I just need to knit up what she has done into a chunky yarn swatch ...


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## franniep (May 16, 2011)

I LOVE the way the pattern in the first entry was presented. It looks like it would be VERY easy to follow. Instead of following a line across, you look at a block of connected instructions. I would like to see more patterns displayed this way.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Circular Knitter said:


> Turmaline:
> 
> I was basically answering what the O with slash in it was, and helping show that the answer was already on the chart provided in earlier posts. I thought I read on one of the websites that it was a machine knit....if that's not the case, chalk it up for misreading on my part...but someone else also thought it was machine knitted as well. I am just REALLY interested if anyone can find an actual pattern to make the sweater.
> I have been searching several sites...but I must now go to bed!! I have too stop!!


I am about to get the translation for the Ø
I read in earlier posts that this MIGHT be possibly a directional indication as to how to wrap the YO. I am not convinced. But between the test swatch knitted on this forum and the translation, there will be a complete answer.

Someone on this forum recommended the book from Anne Budd on how to make top down sweaters. You have all sizes and yarn types in charts in that book. All you need is your gauge swatch and you can make a sweater with arm variations and neckline variations. The numbers to cast on and bind off are already figured out. All you need is you stitches to the inch. This was a good suggestion, unlike some wild guesses that also routinely appear among the forum answers.

Here is a link as an introduction to machine knitting:
http://knittsings.com/free-knitting-machine-videos/


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Mysterious Ø Deciphered.

This is what they call in Russian a three-loop decrease.

It is more like sl1 k2tog, psso. 
Here is a you tube video with a Russian knitter demonstrating it.





Stitch is easy, finding its description was more like pole jumping 16 feet!


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Voila!! you got it...this world of knitting is amazing and Turmaline you are one it's brightest shining stars...and you are correct, this was a very productive thread. 

Now who is going to post the first sweater picture? or what yarn/gauge will you use? will you replicate the original photo or try it in lace?


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Hallelujah. I have the correct and guess free translation for this pattern and its chart.
I have posted it on my BeadAnnex blog, including the symbol definitions.

Please use and enjoy. The Russian video link to the double decrease left leaning is there also.

http://beadannex.blogspot.com/

I will get to it eventually in early September myself. I am relieved I finally solved this puzzle.


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## JanRosa (Apr 12, 2012)

Oh Dear!!! Now what do we do for excitement?


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Knit it. :-D


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## JanRosa (Apr 12, 2012)

Sounds good.


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## clegrant (Sep 29, 2012)

Oh wow!!!Thank you all.

Chere


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Turmaline, thank you very much both as super sleuth and in sharing your findings.

Now I look forward to seeing KP members' knitted items using this stitch pattern.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

You are welcome. I have vacation and family visits intruding. I cannot get to it until September but I plan to at least make a gauge swatch in the meantime.

:lol:


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## Nevah (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow I am impressed! Good work and I hope to see the finished top down version. What a beautiful sweater!!


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Turmaline said:


> Mysterious Ø Deciphered.
> 
> This is what they call in Russian a three-loop decrease.
> 
> ...


Hallelujah! Somehow, I was just not convinced that the other explanation was true since the slash mark was reversed (leaned the opposite direction). This one does fit in with my observations/guessing re: knitting 2 together...but is a slip one rather than a YO. I was even thinking of this in my sleep last night! :lol:


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Janci said:


> Hallelujah! Somehow, I was just not convinced that the other explanation was true since the slash mark was reversed (leaned the opposite direction). This one does fit in with my observations/guessing re: knitting 2 together...but is a slip one rather than a YO. I was even thinking of this in my sleep last night! :lol:


janci please get the final answers at my blog. I got a translation from a Russian friend. It was impossible before with all the knitting abbreviations.

http://beadannex.blogspot.com/


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

Turmaline said:


> janci please get the final answers at my blog. I got a translation from a Russian friend. It was impossible before with all the knitting abbreviations.
> 
> http://beadannex.blogspot.com/


Thanks, Turmaline! I did see that and have bookmarked it for future reference! You did a GREAT job!


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## JanetofAus (May 29, 2011)

Turmaline, you are a wonder and thanks too to your Russian-speaking friend. This stitch is now bookmarked as a possible body for a short-sleeved top. Thank you again.


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

I am going to try this stitsh...not as a sweater, that's beyond me..because I find it interesting and like to work thru interesting things...thank you!! all....
julie


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## dev7316 (Sep 2, 2011)

Very unique


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## imoffcall (Oct 12, 2011)

See women are smarater than men. Men could never figure this out..


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## Aunt Nay (Nov 25, 2011)

Did an image search on Google. The pattern is from a Rusdian site, http://www.stranamam.ru/post/7060199/, there is a chart.

EDIT: Boy I was too slow. Awesome work, Turmaline!!! :thumbup:


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Haven't been following this thread. What terrific knitting forensics. Will be wanting to at least swatch this stitch to see how what ideas for a project is creates in me. thank you


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## Sharynreed (Nov 29, 2011)

Is Sherlock Holmes a member? What a terrific bunch of super sleuths! :thumbup: I can't wait to map this pattern out.


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Clearly the chunky weight has allot to do with the finished outcome,,,saw this in a thread from KP last week. About chain plying It is going to help a great deal.





Original posts
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-275856-1.html


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## JanetofAus (May 29, 2011)

My swatch looks nothing like this and I have followed the instructions to the letter. Has anyone else managed it?


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

JanetofNQ said:


> My swatch looks nothing like this and I have followed the instructions to the letter. Has anyone else managed it?


No luck here,,,,,,that is why I posted the video about yarn plying to chunk up the yarn but actually I am having better luck with this stitch:
http://www.knitca.com/lace6


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## Janci (Dec 22, 2012)

MomBeezzzz said:


> Clearly the chunky weight has allot to do with the finished outcome,,,saw this in a thread from KP last week. About chain plying It is going to help a great deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you SO much for posting that tip re: Navajo knitting! I have just pinned the knitted pieces of a sweater to the blocking board that I knitted with rayon crochet thread using #4 needles. Needless to say, it is quite "holey", but that was what I expected. Now you have given me yet another new thing to try! I am using up my stash mainly by making doll clothes and finding it fun to go out on a limb doing things such as this.


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## cabbagehome (Dec 23, 2011)

What a wow stitch.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

Look what I stumbled across today.

http://alessandrina.com/blog1/

Scroll about a third of the way down and here is this pattern, complete with additional charts for clarity, but also confirming what Turmaline has already found. Good job!


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## JanetofAus (May 29, 2011)

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have scoured my knitting stitches dictionaries and was about to try a swatch again. Her new chart shows knitting stitches on each purl row. Oh this first excursion into lace is so exciting!


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## grandmasue (Nov 26, 2011)

I love this and thanks for the knitting sleuths who tracked down and deciphered the chart, but is there an actual pattern detailing the yarn, measurements etc. I'm too thick to work it out for myself!


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

imoffcall said:


> See women are smarater than men. Men could never figure this out..


Begging your pardon. I had figured it was roving yarn when first posted and didn't take the time to see the yarn overs and wraps but knew I could go to lostarts to get the "skinny" on this technique. Besides Turmaline was on track and needed no help from my perspective.

I'm busy converting a poorly conceived afghan stitch pattern that was a tutorial by New Stitch A Day that had a stitch pattern a new crocheter on KP was trying to do. It should have been a red flag when they even mentioned the old asymmetrical shell stitch fabric that was worked right to left and then the yarn cut at the left end. Its a simple Tunisian stitch pattern and requires no fiddly work like the regular crocheted one on NSAD.


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Nitting_More said:


> Look what I stumbled across today.
> 
> http://alessandrina.com/blog1/
> 
> ...


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

babsbarb said:


> But what's with the skirt??


There is nothing wrong with pre-quilted fabrics--just look at the picture more closely and see they made it in sections to create a more swing effect. Unfortunately, they don't know about biased edge tape hems on bulky fabric nor the fact bulky fabric doesn't have the drape to create a swing effect. A standard A line would have sufficed.


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## gillyc (Jul 9, 2012)

Please, when any of you posts a pic of a swatch or a finished garment would you either put it on this thread or post a link to it in pictures? I often miss them.
Thank you so much for this thread. I have really enjoyed following the detective work, even though it was up to page 8 before I opened it.


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

I was reading back on the posts and way back on page 2 Jan rosa posted the link to the converted pattern...good work!
http://alessandrina.com/blog1/2014/06/02/a-hand-knit-stitch-tale/

I am not a chart fan but even I can follow this!!! yahooo


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

grandmasue said:


> I love this and thanks for the knitting sleuths who tracked down and deciphered the chart, but is there an actual pattern detailing the yarn, measurements etc. I'm too thick to work it out for myself!


Go to a local yarn store and have them sell you the yarn and help you. No there are no prepared instructions for a sweater. Russian instructions when they are available are usually charts and very brief few sentences. The assumption "every body knows how to this" is the operating principle.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

grandmasue said:


> I love this and thanks for the knitting sleuths who tracked down and deciphered the chart, but is there an actual pattern detailing the yarn, measurements etc. I'm too thick to work it out for myself!


Go to a local yarn store and have them sell you the yarn and help you. No there are no prepared instructions for a sweater. Russian instructions when they are available are usually charts and very brief few sentences. The assumption "every body knows how to this" is the operating principle.


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## grandmasue (Nov 26, 2011)

Turmaline said:


> Go to a local yarn store and have them sell you the yarn and help you. No there are no prepared instructions for a sweater. Russian instructions when they are available are usually charts and very brief few sentences. The assumption "every body knows how to this" is the operating principle.


Thanks Turmaline and special thanks for all your work on this. It looks reasonably thick yarn, perhaps what you call worsted or cotton aran. Can anyone hazard a guess at needle size? I did think of finding a pattern that would fit me and trying to incorporate this stitch as I'd be useless at working out the shaping. Be interesting to see if anyone cracks it. Thank you again. I really love it.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

grandmasue said:


> Thanks Turmaline and special thanks for all your work on this. It looks reasonably thick yarn, perhaps what you call worsted or cotton aran. Can anyone hazard a guess at needle size? I did think of finding a pattern that would fit me and trying to incorporate this stitch as I'd be useless at working out the shaping. Be interesting to see if anyone cracks it. Thank you again. I really love it.


It looks more substantial and dimensional on worsted yarn to a bulky worsted yarn. 4 to 5. I think some of the chainette yarns at size 4 thickness would work well. It would make a nice scarf while learning the stitch in a soft chainette yarn.

I would guess needle size for a very loose knitter would be 5 mm, For a tight knitter it may go up to 5.5 or 6 mm.

I was thinking a stockinette stitch non curling edge of half an inch at the start might make it easier to get going with the pattern.

I'll have no time to experiment this week but as soon as I make some swatches, I'll try to post them and some comments too.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Well men do come in handy :thumbup:

http://www.allfreeknitting.com/Knit-Cardigans/Angel-Lace-Cardigan-from-Red-Heart

No need for translations and its a free pattern--use the angel lace portion with a roving/bulky yarn and you will just need to incorporate it into a sweater pattern you like.

It is a one directional knit lace so you will be reversing the stitch fabric if doing a top-down method. To keep the lace in the correct direction you can work bottom up without side seams and do the raglans two-at-a-time method to armhole beginning. At that point go to long cabled needles and work the rest of the sleeves and body together--could also reverse your ribbing by just continuing up and possibly decreasing last few rows to make it fit more snugly to the neck or use smaller sized needles etc.


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## grandmasue (Nov 26, 2011)

Turmaline said:


> It looks more substantial and dimensional on worsted yarn to a bulky worsted yarn. 4 to 5. I think some of the chainette yarns at size 4 thickness would work well. It would make a nice scarf while learning the stitch in a soft chainette yarn.
> 
> I would guess needle size for a very loose knitter would be 5 mm, For a tight knitter it may go up to 5.5 or 6 mm.
> 
> ...


You're an absolute star.. I'll keep a look out for your posts.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

babsbarb said:


> ... But what's with the skirt??


I wore a red hand-me-down (from my mother's teens in the late 30s/early 40s) similarly quilted skirt, but it was about twice as long, so it served the practical purpose of keeping legs warm in NYC winters. I see no point in a quilted mini-skirt, unless you're a competitive figure-skater on outdoor rinks.


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## cabbagehome (Dec 23, 2011)

Thank you every one on finding this. I'm going to try it on a dish cloth first.


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## craftyone51 (Nov 22, 2013)

kyterp said:


> Thank you Turmaline. The symbols baffle me although I have tried to look them up on the computer. Are you able to decipher them?


After you click on Turmaline's link, page down and all the symbols have been described with what each means. Maybe you didn't read down far enough.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I wore a red hand-me-down (from my mother's teens in the late 30s/early 40s) similarly quilted skirt, but it was about twice as long, so it served the practical purpose of keeping legs warm in NYC winters. I see no point in a quilted mini-skirt, unless you're a competitive figure-skater on outdoor rinks.


Is that similar to the guys who wear shorts--no socks with the weather below 0 degrees Fahrenheit with extreme wind chill factors and no coat?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

disgo said:


> Is that similar to the guys who wear shorts--no socks with the weather below 0 degrees Fahrenheit with extreme wind chill factors and no coat?


You must be thinking of some of the students here in Montreal. Because they live (relatively) near the school, one can see them all winter - even in full blizzard - trotting between class and apartment with no outer garb. It drives me crazy! But they're young, hot blooded, and aren't outside long enough to get frostbitten.

I think the folks who - in heat waves - wear layers of scarf wrapped around their necks are equally crazy.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> You must be thinking of some of the students here in Montreal. Because they live (relatively) near the school, one can see them all winter - even in full blizzard - trotting between class and apartment with no outer garb. It drives me crazy! But they're young, hot blooded, and aren't outside long enough to get frostbitten.
> 
> I think the folks who - in heat waves - wear layers of scarf wrapped around their necks are equally crazy.


And flip flops in the dead of winter! Makes my feet cold just to look at them. One day we're going to see an epidemic of people with serious foot problems from walking (wearing is not the correct term here) with those flimsy things.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Nitting_More said:


> And flip flops in the dead of winter! Makes my feet cold just to look at them. One day we're going to see an epidemic of people with serious foot problems from walking (wearing is not the correct term here) with those flimsy things.


Have suffered with my hammer toes from the late '50s due to wearing those dumb things!

No, Jessica-Jean, these aren't students and they climb out of their non-heated pickups/SUVs like they are walking to the beach on a hot sunny day. I always wonder what they would do if they had a break down miles from anywhere! Course with cells and smart phones I supposed that would be no biggy :-o :shock: :lol:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Nitting_More said:


> And flip flops in the dead of winter! Makes my feet cold just to look at them. One day we're going to see an epidemic of people with serious foot problems from walking (wearing is not the correct term here) with those flimsy things.


OK. I don't wear my fllip-flops after the temperatures outside drop to close to freezing. However, I've been wearing them since I first tried them at age 19. I'm 68, and my feet are fine - oversized but otherwise just dandy. Probably, had I encountered less trouble buying shoes that fit my size 13 AAAA, I never would even have _tried_ flip-flops. My size is - _when_ available - unbelievably expensive. I gave up long ago even looking for properly fitting shoes. Men's hiking boots with layers of thick wool work-socks do the job in winter weather. Men's thick-soled clogs with just one or two pairs of socks work for all non-messy, below freezing temperatures the rest of the winter, and barefoot in flip-flops works for the rest of the year. Dress shoes?? I have two carefully preserved pairs of women's shoes that actually fit and that I use for any occasions that come along in must-dress-up venues. I'll never wear them out.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Turmaline said:


> Hallelujah. I have the correct and guess free translation for this pattern and its chart.
> I have posted it on my BeadAnnex blog, including the symbol definitions.
> 
> Please use and enjoy. The Russian video link to the double decrease left leaning is there also.
> ...


Thank you for all your detective work! :thumbup:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Turmaline said:


> Go to a local yarn store and have them sell you the yarn and help you. No there are no prepared instructions for a sweater. Russian instructions when they are available are usually charts and very brief few sentences. The assumption "*every body knows how to this*" is the operating principle.


And here in North America that was also the case ... a century ago. My grandmother had no knitting patterns, but knitted a closetful of sweaters for her Depression Era babies anyway.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> OK. I don't wear my fllip-flops after the temperatures outside drop to close to freezing. However, I've been wearing them since I first tried them at age 19. I'm 68, and my feet are fine - oversized but otherwise just dandy. Probably, had I encountered less trouble buying shoes that fit my size 13 AAAA, I never would even have _tried_ flip-flops. My size is - _when_ available - unbelievably expensive. I gave up long ago even looking for properly fitting shoes. Men's hiking boots with layers of thick wool work-socks do the job in winter weather. Men's thick-soled clogs with just one or two pairs of socks work for all non-messy, below freezing temperatures the rest of the winter, and barefoot in flip-flops works for the rest of the year. Dress shoes?? I have two carefully preserved pairs of women's shoes that actually fit and that I use for any occasions that come along in must-dress-up venues. I'll never wear them out.


But you at least have a good REASON for wearing them. I get concerned when I see these very young children wearing them everywhere. Of course, they *are* cheaper than shoes. Whatever am I thinking?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Nitting_More said:


> But you at least have a good REASON for wearing them. I get concerned when I see these very young children wearing them everywhere. Of course, they *are* cheaper than shoes. Whatever am I thinking?


So called Primitive peoples - in warm climates anyway - go unshod their entire lives. 
_Some_ pediatricians advise children go barefoot.
My feet aren't used to being unshod, but are fine with flip-flops.

Memories ... Back in the day, my only footwear was a custom made pair of leather sandals. I attended a free Tijuana Brass show in Central Park. The deluge began while I was in the subway. When I saw it, I stayed inside long enough to remove my leather sandals and stow them in a dry corner of my bag. I proceeded barefoot on Manhattan streets. My feet were younger than now. Today, I can't even stand in the bathtub without my pillow-soft slippers.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

Hi Jessica Jean,

It all depends on the biomechanics of your feet. Some people have good biomechanics. Their feet hold up. Obesity is very hard on feet and non supportive foot wear. There are other factors involved. I think a quadrupole A foot is really too narrow to support a very heavy body for example( not implying that you might be heavy but using your biomechanics as an example).

Most feet benefit from a shoe that offers support over the vamp(the arch of the foot) so that the foot is stable. Walking barefoot without danger of broken glass or uneven rocks is not harmful. But walking with wet feet in anything but bare feet is not good. The sandals or the shoes will cause rubbing and blisters when feet are wet.

I have well used feet and they have held up through decades and decades of mountaineering. I always took care to have supporting shoes and non cotton socks to avoid wetness and blisters. I am talking about walks on trails in excess of 22 miles and runs in excess of 12 miles You have to take care of your feet to do this. There is no way to walk that much without supportive boots that fit well. If all you do is walk to the car and from the car to another building, you can use flip flops or nothing. The distance is less than 5 car lengths.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Given my druthers, I use a bicycle to get around, and I wear bike shoes/sandals. Can't really walk great distances in them because of the steel in the soles.

Tromping around off of city streets/sidewalks does call for supportive footwear. Thankfully, men's hiking boots and running shoes come with laces that can snug them up on my feet, though some extra layers - additional insoles or layers of socks - are usually needed.

I'm 6', 255 lbs. I've _never_ been slim. I've been told I have flat feet, but they work just fine anyway. I do seek out sandals and flip-flops that have an arch support.


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## sandramailing (Mar 6, 2013)

Wow


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

I think you have all the right solutions for your feet. 

Most of the time I wear Bostonian Clark's sandals. They have good support and non slippery soles.


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

For winter I highly recommend broom ball shoes, warmth /support/ awesome grip on snow and ice...
http://www.acaciabroomball.ca/modules.php?name=Products&pa=merchandise&cat=2


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

MomBeezzzz said:


> For winter I highly recommend broom ball shoes, warmth /support/ awesome grip on snow and ice...
> http://www.acaciabroomball.ca/modules.php?name=Products&pa=merchandise&cat=2


Thanks for the idea! I've fired off an e-mail to see what they think of their products being used outdoors. I'm guessing their soft, grippy soles wouldn't last through many winters, but if they keep me upright, that's OK. It's not like I'm working and *have* to go out in the worst of weather any more. These days, it's my slippers that are more apt to wear out!


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## MomBeezzzz (Jan 17, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Thanks for the idea! I've fired off an e-mail to see what they think of their products being used outdoors. I'm guessing their soft, grippy soles wouldn't last through many winters, but if they keep me upright, that's OK. It's not like I'm working and *have* to go out in the worst of weather any more. These days, it's my slippers that are more apt to wear out!


The only problem I had was when I come indoors and try to wipe or walk on the rug....super grips stops you dead in your tracks . Once you get used to that you are golden.... I think they even make your size Jessica-Jean!!!


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## maira norman (Oct 18, 2011)

would love the pattern also.so beautiful


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