# "War on Women" #14



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just wonder what women did before 2012 when HHS required that contraception was mandated. The poor woe, is me, cause I have to pay for my own contraception. "If you want to play, you have to pay"
> 
> Actually the Hobby Lobby case *never* about birth control. It was about Freedom to practice their own Religion, which is what the court decided. It never prevented the employee from choosing their own medical care. It actually keeps medical care between the Doctor and patient. Hobby Lobby just decides which bills it will pay, and which they will not.


You speak of Hobby Lobby as if it were a human individual person. This is how our narrow minded 5 nasty men chose to view this incorporated for profit business. The owners of this business have every right to their religious views and every right to practice their religion on a personal level. It is ingenuous at best to allow a business which deals with the public and with employees to have the personal rights of a private individual. It is a ploy the conservatives have used to assault the rights of the real people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The employee has a choice when signing up for the insurance. They know full well before they sign up what is in the plan. If they didn't bother to read the plan they have only themselves to blame. They can always opt out of HL coverage and get their own - that way they can be covered for all BC methods. They are not being forced to take the insurance. There have been no objections from HL employees, only non-employees.


What person working for $15/hour would turn down any kind of insurance her employer gives her and choose instead to buy her own? In fact, don't you know people making twice as much who don't "bother to read" (i.e., don't understand) the plan before signing? Additionally, who knows at the start of the policy year what new medications or devices a doctor might prescribe?

Oh, poor life choices, again?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What person working for $15/hour would turn down any kind of insurance her employer gives her and choose instead to buy her own? In fact, don't you know people making twice as much who don't "bother to read" (i.e., don't understand) the plan before signing? Additionally, who knows at the start of the policy year what new medications or devices a doctor might prescribe?
> 
> Oh, poor life choices, again?


Probably the poorest life choice was the lack of choice in a depressed job market that found them employed by Hobby Lobby. Quite possibly they did not have full disclosure regarding the ambiance of the company and thought it would be a benign job paying more than some other McJobs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Or their coven.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just wonder what women did before 2012 when HHS required that contraception was mandated. The poor woe, is me, cause I have to pay for my own contraception. "If you want to play, you have to pay"
> 
> Actually the Hobby Lobby case *never* about birth control. It was about Freedom to practice their own Religion, which is what the court decided. It never prevented the employee from choosing their own medical care. It actually keeps medical care between the Doctor and patient. Hobby Lobby just decides which bills it will pay, and which they will not.
> 
> I think someone had mentioned the cost between $500 and $1000. That doesn't sound so bad since the deductible for many of Obamacare policies are between $2,000 and $5,000.


For people making $15/hr?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> I understand that you just want to be respected as a person regardless of age.
> 
> But I do think Purl is right for pointing out their chronic disrespect for elders. It's not just you they heap their prejudice against.


oh - I agree - I certainly understood what PP was saying. She is a good friend. It was just a feeling that I don't want special treatment .- !!!!!  :lol: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not being liked by Mean Girls is a validation of who we are. We would be in big trouble if such unpleasant, single minded, and judgmental people did like us. I like who we are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Why do you waste your important time on my poor little posts? weird indeed. I must get to you as you are obsessed with me staying. I will just because you want me too so badly. I might change my mind again in a few minutes though.


Your choice, darlin. We'll all keep in touch.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wait for me guys! My shoes are around here somewhere.



maysmom said:


> Hold, on Shirley, I'll come with you, and then there's the farmers' market. Might be some yarn!
> :-D :-D :-D


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Except for "We interrupt this pregnancy to bring you a word from our Sponsor."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong (AGAIN, as you almost always are)
> 
> Making the employees pay for this option *is equivalent to DENYING them this option*. (_Especially since Hobby Lobby jobs are mostly low paying jobs_) And to pretend otherwise IS A LIE. (Lying is a sin)
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was beginning to think no one remembered that Clarence Thomas has a less than stellar reputation on women's issues.



TrueAthena said:


> Please prove that Nancy Pelosi has never pointed out that having a paternalistic society doesn't often result in female perspectives being dismissed.
> 
> Not to mention that THESE particular justices have proven that they're chauvinistic and backwards and prejudiced in their thinking.
> 
> For goodness sakes, one of them is rightfully infamous for having sexually harassed female employees. Anyone who would ask employees "Who has put pubic hair on my Coke?" self-evidently lacks sufficient judgement to be making these kind of serious decisions about womens NEEDS.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So if they only didn't bother the rest of us.....but they do.



soloweygirl said:


> The employee has a choice when signing up for the insurance. They know full well before they sign up what is in the plan. If they didn't bother to read the plan they have only themselves to blame. They can always opt out of HL coverage and get their own - that way they can be covered for all BC methods. They are not being forced to take the insurance. There have been no objections from HL employees, only non-employees.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> So, Planned Parenthood was supposed to know this step father was a rapist....
> 
> But the MOTHER let the daughter be raped for 7 years before this?
> 
> ...


Never saw evidence of it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Our Very Special Indeed Nod goes to PP for a few really clever posts. Did she go down the wrong path? Could she have been the next Dorothy Parker?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> There isn't ONE rodeo that is not abusive to animals.
> 
> It's just that you don't recognize that abuse or find the abuse acceptable. Then again, that's an issue with too many conservatives because it's a common problem that they lack sufficient compassion for fellow human beings much less animals.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> If you read through the D&P thread you see that they've often made pacts to ignore "outsiders" when they post there, so the likelihood that she was purposefully ignored is pretty high.
> 
> Now maybe Lake has lost track of what was said privately and what was said openly on the board, but quite clearly it's a willful act to be unfriendly to members who are not accepted members of their cult.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

obviously she doesn't read all their posts or even some of them.

It was a common thread there for awhile and they all agreed, at least it seems no one disagreed. The powers that be decided and the rest must have agreed. It was mutually agreed that they would not acknowledge anything from any of us. Not sure whether they have ever broken that rule but certainly not with my information about Calgary , or a couple of other posts which I posted in concern for illness in a family.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Discipline/murder. Six on one hand, half dozen on the other.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> There isn't one single rodeo that doesn't engage in animal cruelty.
> 
> Roping and herding are inherently cruel acts.
> 
> ...


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> People employed by HL are paid poorly and probably desperate for their jobs. They probably have reason to believe they would jeopardize their employment if they complained. Just as Bob Cratchit did not complain about Ebenezer Scrooge, an employer who would fit right in to today's 1%.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> So, Planned Parenthood was supposed to know this step father was a rapist....
> 
> But the MOTHER let the daughter be raped for 7 years before this?
> 
> ...


Precisely.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Our Very Special Indeed Nod goes to PP for a few really clever posts. Did she go down the wrong path? Could she have been the next Dorothy Parker?


Considering Dorothy Parker's unfortunate end, I'll go with nominating PP as our own crowned wit.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just wonder what women did before 2012 when HHS required that contraception was mandated. The poor woe, is me, cause I have to pay for my own contraception. "If you want to play, you have to pay"
> 
> Actually the Hobby Lobby case *never* about birth control. It was about Freedom to practice their own Religion, which is what the court decided. It never prevented the employee from choosing their own medical care. It actually keeps medical care between the Doctor and patient. Hobby Lobby just decides which bills it will pay, and which they will not.
> 
> I think someone had mentioned the cost between $500 and $1000. That doesn't sound so bad since the deductible for many of Obamacare policies are between $2,000 and $5,000.


You have clearly cited the rationale of most conservatives: Pay to play. Mercifully, now there's DNA testing, so the man can't say, "It's not mine."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Because they earn them.



joeysomma said:


> Nancy Pelosi supported the bill that Bill Clinton signed, that was confirmed by the Supreme Court. Sounds like you are believing the lies of the liberal Left. No employee has lost any right. They still have the right to control their own body. Why should anyone demand that their employer pay for their wants?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Considering Dorothy Parker's unfortunate end, I'll go with nominating PP as our own crowned wit.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

maysmom said:


> Mercifully, now there's DNA testing, so the man can't say, "It's not mine."


Oh really? There is a piece of s*** in our town who beat his wife, got her pregnant. He cheated on her with a girlfriend in a town north of here and the girlfriend is pregnant. There is a second girlfriend in a town to the east and yep, preggers. He's claiming none of the babies are his because having the flu as a child made him sterile. The DNA lab will be busy this fall establishing paternity on those 3 infants.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think *we* were bright and shiny in the so-called "good old days", not that the good old days were necessarily bright and shiny and sooo much better than the present.


you might be right -- We often didn't know what was happening to other people, we lived in a dream world in some cases. A story book kind of life. Which was great for those who did-- not so great for those whose lives were poverty, crime, hunger, drought etc. Not perfect then and very far from perfect now.

Nowadays there is no excuse for not being aware of the dark side. Then there was little known about it unless it affected them or their families as it did mine.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Many times they went without the best healthcare options and either ended up with unwanted children, or had abortions.
> 
> Making it more difficult for women to get the best birth control options for them often results in abortions that never had to happen in the first place.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just wonder what women did before 2012 when HHS required that contraception was mandated. The poor woe, is me, cause I have to pay for my own contraception. "If you want to play, you have to pay"
> 
> Actually the Hobby Lobby case *never* about birth control. It was about Freedom to practice their own Religion, which is what the court decided. It never prevented the employee from choosing their own medical care. It actually keeps medical care between the Doctor and patient. Hobby Lobby just decides which bills it will pay, and which they will not.
> 
> I think someone had mentioned the cost between $500 and $1000. That doesn't sound so bad since the deductible for many of Obamacare policies are between $2,000 and $5,000.


Why in the world should HL's rights trump the rights of its employees? It's just plain wrong. And to say that "if you want to play you have to play" is a nasty remark.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


Yup, back to the old "pay to play" song. What if the woman is married?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


Yes, they are just playing and the name of the game is "Sheer Ecstasy"...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Nancy Pelosi supported the bill that Bill Clinton signed, that was confirmed by the Supreme Court. Sounds like you are believing the lies of the liberal Left. No employee has lost any right. They still have the right to control their own body. Why should anyone demand that their employer pay for their wants?


Whatever I believe beats believing the exaggerated misinformation spewed by the far right. Or the anti choice extremists.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Oh really? There is a piece of s*** in our town who beat his wife, got her pregnant. He cheated on her with a girlfriend in a town north of here and the girlfriend is pregnant. There is a second girlfriend in a town to the east and yep, preggers. He's claiming none of the babies are his because having the flu as a child made him sterile. The DNA lab will be busy this fall establishing paternity on those 3 infants.


Wonder whether the DNA test will find the gene for stoo-pid.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


It is not one's employer's business when, where, whether or with whom an employee is having a sexual relationship.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Nancy Pelosi supported the bill that Bill Clinton signed, that was confirmed by the Supreme Court. Sounds like you are believing the lies of the liberal Left. No employee has lost any right. They still have the right to control their own body. Why should anyone demand that their employer pay for their wants?


Because the employer is paying for everyone else's wants.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are so right! So why should she demand her employer pay for her birth control, morning after pill, or IUD?
> 
> Remember Hobby Lobby is self-insured. The corporation (the family) is the insurance company.


Until the judicial branch overstepped their authority and undid the work of the legislative branch, it was the law for employers to provide contraception coverage with health insurance. With the proper determination, it is possible for the legislature to write amendments to the health care bill to correct the injustice. Unless the anti woman lobby ties up legislature the way the Senate and the House have been hamstrung on an ongoing basis.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Considering Dorothy Parker's unfortunate end, I'll go with nominating PP as our own crowned wit.


What was her unfortunate end? Are you confusing her with Sylvia Plath?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What was her unfortunate end? Are you confusing her with Sylvia Plath?


She died of a heart attack at the age of 73. Virginia Woolf died a suicide at the age of 59.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Oh really? There is a piece of s*** in our town who beat his wife, got her pregnant. He cheated on her with a girlfriend in a town north of here and the girlfriend is pregnant. There is a second girlfriend in a town to the east and yep, preggers. He's claiming none of the babies are his because having the flu as a child made him sterile. The DNA lab will be busy this fall establishing paternity on those 3 infants.


You can't blame a guy for trying. Though if flu made men sterile, the world's population would be probably half of what it is.

It's mumps that does it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Many times they went without the best healthcare options and either ended up with unwanted children, or had abortions.
> 
> Making it more difficult for women to get the best birth control options for them often results in abortions that never had to happen in the first place.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


So?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes, they are just playing and the name of the game is "Sheer Ecstasy"...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> She died of a heart attack at the age of 73. Virginia Woolf died a suicide at the age of 59.


A heart attack at 73 is not what I'd call an unfortunate end. Suicide at 59, okay. Sylvia Plath, like a good housewife, died at 31 with her head in the oven.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


One more time: ownership of a company is not supposed to mean that they are exempt from following laws. I am concerned that corporations are gaining rights under this conservative court that they should not have. If HL decides they don't want to hire Muslims is that OK? If HL decides that all women have to attend church before their work shift is that OK? If HL wants to dictate that only evangelical Christians will be hired is that OK? And what if they decide that only white people can eat in the employee lunch room? Don't you see the erosion of the rights of the individual happening?
And, by the way, if the government is forced to pay for the things HL refuses to pay, guess who IS paying? You got it---you and I are paying--the taxpayer. 
And another thing: just because you think people are having sex outside of marriage doesn't mean they "are playing." Your stating of something doesn't make it right or true.
No everything can be defined in terms of black and white, and I think you're old enough to know that by now.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What was her unfortunate end? Are you confusing her with Sylvia Plath?


No, they both committed suicide. Sylvia with head in oven, Dorothy, I don't know. I'm leaning toward an overdose.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I was going to answer and decided no. You wouldn't understand anyway.


You couldn't explain anyway.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A heart attack at 73 is not what I'd call an unfortunate end. Suicide at 59, okay. Sylvia Plath, like a good housewife, died at 31 with her head in the oven.


For the last time, oh heavenly housewife, it's the cake that goes in the oven...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What was her unfortunate end? Are you confusing her with Sylvia Plath?


That has confused me too, all day. I know Parker was a drinker but I don't remember anything untoward re: her death. Plath exited thru her oven. Has that become passe?


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> let me give you a little insight into who I am. I ONLY get involved in matters of great importance to me whether for just one individual or many and once I find such an issue, I know no boundaries and stick to it 100%. By the way I have been an escort at Abortion Clinics for many years and shall do that even if I would need a wheelchair to get around. The wellbeing of women in any need touches my Heart. I always practice what I preach no matter what the obstacles. My intents are pure. It is that simple. I am also surrounded by VERY dedicated People of both Genders lending support to others regulary. They too practice what they preach. Huck


Well, I seemed to have committed a faux pax (did I spell that correctly?) here...i do commend you on your convictions and I say that sincerely. Women's issues are important. We seem to be second-class in many instances. Like I said before, and I mean it without any snarkiness--which happens here often--I commend you for sticking to your convictions. Not everyone practices what they preach and I am glad to find that in you. Keep up the good work.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> No, they both committed suicide. Sylvia with head in oven, Dorothy, I don't know. I'm leaning toward an overdose.


Wikipedia says heart attack, though she did have some antidepressants around that actually increased her depression.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> For the last time, oh heavenly housewife, it's the cake that goes in the oven...


When Ted came home from a hard day at the poetry factory, he found a pan of chocolate cake batter with a hat on it and his wife - well, you know the rest.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> That has confused me too, all day. I know Parker was a drinker but I don't remember anything untoward re: her death. Plath exited thru her oven. Has that become passe?


What with pilot lights and electrical devices, it's not easy to get your oven to fill with gas.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You can't blame a guy for trying. Though if flu made men sterile, the world's population would be probably half of what it is.
> 
> It's mumps that does it.


And it is not mumps as a child that sterilizes, it is mumps as an adult -- after puberty.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Well, honestly, I don't live anywhere near a HL. I have never bought anything at one of their stores and don't plan on starting. It's a complicated issue. 

I haven't spent a lot of time investigating and ferreting out all the nuances of what has happened...mostly because of visitors from out of town. 

On one hand, women have gotten the short end of the stick for forever. Always been pushed aside and been "put in the kitchen" so to speak. Pregnancy and pregnancy prevention are important topics to everyone and shouldn't be swept aside, which seems to be happening. 

On the other hand, They are a company for profit...BUT, they aren't beholden to any shareholders. They have never been open on Sunday. If they were beholden to shareholders, they wouldn't have gotten away with what they got away with. 

In the past, insurance coverage was a benefit...and still is-kinda-sorta. Now, with government intervention, it had become a hornets nest for some populations. 

But, playing the Devil's advocate, why wasn't anyone bothered before the government got involved in the whole health care issue? I am curious to see what kind of insurance they offered their employees before the government got involved? Is it terribly different? Is it similar to what they had in the past? Are there employees that are complaining? I honestly don't know how to find this out. 

I am of the opinion...because of years of corrupt government officials, it doesn't matter what I think....the government is doing what is best for the government....not you and I. The government will be the demise of us all. We are giving them the rope to hang us with.

Thanks for asking. It really made me think.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Not sarcasm, just an honest observation. It had nothing to do with age as you said. Again, just because KPG did not respond to your information that does not make her impolite; that is an opinion not fact. But then again, with your self adoration, one can understand why getting a thank you is so vital to you.


lovethelake
sorry to hear that social graces are foreign to you and your likes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I just wonder what women did before 2012 when HHS required that contraception was mandated. The poor woe, is me, cause I have to pay for my own contraception. "If you want to play, you have to pay"
> 
> Actually the Hobby Lobby case *never* about birth control. It was about Freedom to practice their own Religion, which is what the court decided. It never prevented the employee from choosing their own medical care. It actually keeps medical care between the Doctor and patient. Hobby Lobby just decides which bills it will pay, and which they will not.
> 
> I think someone had mentioned the cost between $500 and $1000. That doesn't sound so bad since the deductible for many of Obamacare policies are between $2,000 and $5,000.


joeysomma
too bad much education re. the use of Contraceptives has bypassed you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Planned Parenthood Sued for Doing Abortion on Raped 13-Year-Old, Returning Her to Rapist
> 
> by Deborah Myers | Denver, CO | LifeNews.com | 7/11/14 10:40 AM
> 
> ...


joeysomma
there is so much BS in that story, it reekes to high Heaven.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Hmm hmmmm. That's what I thought.
> 
> It's not gummint denying these women healthcare coverage, it's corporations.


However, it is government appointed officials that agreed with the objections raised by the corporations. Where does that leave the rest of us?

I will tell you, at the mercy of corrupt government officials.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

TrueAthena said:


> So, Planned Parenthood was supposed to know this step father was a rapist....
> 
> But the MOTHER let the daughter be raped for 7 years before this?
> 
> ...


TrueAthena
you too are smelling a Rat, thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You speak of Hobby Lobby as if it were a human individual person. This is how our narrow minded 5 nasty men chose to view this incorporated for profit business. The owners of this business have every right to their religious views and every right to practice their religion on a personal level. It is ingenuous at best to allow a business which deals with the public and with employees to have the personal rights of a private individual. It is a ploy the conservatives have used to assault the rights of the real people.


MarylinKnits
BINGO!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Many times they went without the best healthcare options and either ended up with unwanted children, or had abortions.
> 
> Making it more difficult for women to get the best birth control options for them often results in abortions that never had to happen in the first place.


Southern Girl
Thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Why in the world should HL's rights trump the rights of its employees? It's just plain wrong. And to say that "if you want to play you have to play" is a nasty remark.


alcameron
may those who cannot get pregnant (Males) not be allowed to make the Laws. (Supreme Court).


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Never saw evidence of it.


damemary
yeah, really????????????? How convenient.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> How about they *own* the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.


joeysomma
you are incurable.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> No, they are corporate bought monkees.
> 
> I mean seriously, are you arguing that no government should exist?
> 
> ...


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> No, they are corporate bought monkees.
> 
> I mean seriously, are you arguing that no government should exist at all?
> 
> Again your pretense of being "moderate" or considering all sides in this matter has just been blown.


Hate to point it out, but you changed your post.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> For people making $15/hr?


Actually my daughter was being paid about $9/hr and when her employer offered an insurance plan that would cost the employee $400 or $500/month she turned it down. You do the math.

She ended up on Maine Care, SNAP, and WIC when she could prove that she was pregnant.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> No, they are corporate bought monkees.
> 
> I mean seriously, are you arguing that no government should exist at all?
> 
> Again your pretense of being "moderate" or considering all sides in this matter has just been blown.


Just curious...how did you become a "new user"? You have been here a long time and have posted some beautiful patterns that you have designed. Just wondering....


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Hmm hmmmm. That's what I thought.
> 
> Another anti-gummint freak pretending she's more on the fence and open and thoughtful than she really is.


Once again...you changed your original post.
It's hard write an accurate rebuttal.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

SouthernGirl. said:


> And?


It's hard to write an accurate rebuttal when you change your original post after I start writing. Not fair in the least.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

SouthernGirl. said:


> I actually question that. I dont believe that anti-depressants, when taken and prescribed correctly cause worsening depression. I think people fail to take them correctly and often don't report their misuse.


Two of the listed "side effects" for some of these drugs that are prescribed for depression are indeed suicidal thoughts and death. Do not ask how I know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SouthernGirl. said:


> I actually question that. I dont believe that anti-depressants, when taken and prescribed correctly cause worsening depression. I think people fail to take them correctly and often don't report their misuse.


This was in the 1960s, when the meds were pretty new. I thought I read about the pills in Wikipedia this afternoon, but tonight there's no mention of them. I may have imagined the whole thing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> However, it is government appointed officials that agreed with the objections raised by the corporations. Where does that leave the rest of us?
> 
> I will tell you, at the mercy of corrupt government officials.


That's how you see the Supreme Court, as mere government-appointed officials? Well, the ones who sided with HL were appointed by the two Bushes; the other four dissented pretty vigorously. So which government is the problem?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Actually my daughter was being paid about $9/hr and when her employer offered an insurance plan that would cost the employee $400 or $500/month she turned it down. You do the math.
> 
> She ended up on Maine Care, SNAP, and WIC when she could prove that she was pregnant.


How could someone working for $9 an hour possibly come up with $400/month? Being a wise woman (and your daughter), she was smart enough to know where to go to get coverage. I don't know how much HL workers had to pay, but if they were paying anything, they've been ripped off by our own gang of 5.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> SouthernGirl. said:
> 
> 
> > No, they are corporate bought monkees.
> ...


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> That is sad she had to get pregnant to get help. Is this her first child?


Yes it is her first child. She had two first-trimester miscarriages before the pregnancy with this one "took."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SouthernGirl. said:


> They are essentially being forced to "pay a fine" for not having the "correct" medical _needs_. (Not "wants", but a medical NEED based on what their doctor has helped them decide is the most effective birth control method for them.)
> 
> That's discrimination and the opposite of equal protection under the law.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SouthernGirl. said:


> Why should other people be helping Hobby Lobby get off the hook for discriminating against people?
> 
> But it's not the owner's money, it's a corporation's money. A corporation is a thing. A that a "thing" is being given more human rights than an ACTUAL human being is a disgrace and immoral.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This may provide a good place to look for it.



MarilynKnits said:


> Wonder whether the DNA test will find the gene for stoo-pid.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Parker was unlucky in love, and an alcoholic. She attempted suicide but was unsuccessful. I think she also suffered through the communist witch-hunt days. I think she died alone and no one claimed her ashes.



Poor Purl said:


> What was her unfortunate end? Are you confusing her with Sylvia Plath?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> You couldn't explain anyway.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> For the last time, oh heavenly housewife, it's the cake that goes in the oven...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Frogging123 said:


> Well, I seemed to have committed a faux pax (did I spell that correctly?) here...i do commend you on your convictions and I say that sincerely. Women's issues are important. We seem to be second-class in many instances. Like I said before, and I mean it without any snarkiness--which happens here often--I commend you for sticking to your convictions. Not everyone practices what they preach and I am glad to find that in you. Keep up the good work.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Parker was unlucky in love, and an alcoholic. She attempted suicide but was unsuccessful. I think she also suffered through the communist witch-hunt days. I think she died alone and no one claimed her ashes.


You pretty much got it right. Except you missed that her estate went to the NAACP, and some of her literary friends tried to contest that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> there is so much BS in that story, it reekes to high Heaven.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wikipedia says heart attack, though she did have some antidepressants around that actually increased her depression.


Not that I always quote Wikipedia with conviction, but you are right. She did make several suicide attempts.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> When Ted came home from a hard day at the poetry factory, he found a pan of chocolate cake batter with a hat on it and his wife - well, you know the rest.


I couldn't have explained it any better....


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Two of the listed "side effects" for some of these drugs that are prescribed for depression are indeed suicidal thoughts and death. Do not ask how I know.


The side effects of suicidal thoughts and death occur because the meds start working enough for the individual to feel better enough to end it all. Without the meds, (s)he would have been nearly comatose. And, do not ask me how I know.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Wrong. Wrong. Wrong (AGAIN, as you almost always are)
> 
> Making the employees pay for this option *is equivalent to DENYING them this option*. (_Especially since Hobby Lobby jobs are mostly low paying jobs_) And to pretend otherwise IS A LIE. (Lying is a sin)
> 
> ...


Then the employee can drop Hobby Lobby's insurance and get Obamacare. So no one is denying anyone anything, there are choices. You want an IUD or the morning after pill then get Obamacare. Wonder if Obamacare is far more expensive, has higher deductibles, and less doctors available on that plan? Wouldn't that be ironic that Obamacare is a worse plan with IUD's than Hobby Lobby's?


----------



## StellasKnits (Apr 10, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> Just curious...how did you become a "new user"? You have been here a long time and have posted some beautiful patterns that you have designed. Just wondering....


Just a heads up....this was a troll here on KP. The posts have been deleted but for some reason the name has not yet. The SouthernGirl that posted in this thread had a period after the name - SouthernGirl. - The SouthernGirl who is the pattern writer here on KP did not comment in this thread and does not have the period after the name.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

StellasKnits said:


> Just a heads up....this was a troll here on KP. The posts have been deleted but for some reason the name has not yet. The SouthernGirl that posted in this thread had a period after the name - SouthernGirl. - The SouthernGirl who is the pattern writer here on KP did not comment in this thread and does not have the period after the name.


Oh! That explains it! It took me awhile to realize I recognized her avatar. Then, when I saw she was a new user, I didn't get it. I was visiting my Aunt in Kansas and she told me about this site. She showed me some work SouthernGirl had done, which is what prompted me to join this site.

Her posts didn't seem to match what I remember seeing a few months ago. If you haven't seen her work, you should check it out. Thanks for clarifying, you gave better eyes than I!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

StellasKnits said:


> Just a heads up....this was a troll here on KP. The posts have been deleted but for some reason the name has not yet. The SouthernGirl that posted in this thread had a period after the name - SouthernGirl. - The SouthernGirl who is the pattern writer here on KP did not comment in this thread and does not have the period after the name.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Frogging123 said:


> Once again...you changed your original post.
> It's hard write an accurate rebuttal.


We do actually have an hour to edit our posts. Why wouldn't someone choose to be a slippery sneak and try to slide away from their "original" post?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"Just a heads up....this was a troll here on KP."

Yeah and she has many head. The Hydra stricketh again.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Wait for me guys! My shoes are around here somewhere.


I love farmer's markets! sounds great!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's a very rare occasion when I go over to FFD&P but I gave into the perverse desire to see what's up with those folks at the moment. I was curious about what the enemy was up to. Well, that was a bad idea. Please see my remarks about my experience on "Current Events".


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ooops. Duplicate post.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> We do actually have an hour to edit our posts. Why wouldn't someone choose to be a slippery sneak and try to slide away from their "original" post?


deleted my post.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> It's hard to write an accurate rebuttal when you change your original post after I start writing. Not fair in the least.


It is the only way we can correct or clarify something we have written. I do it quite often to try to clarify what I am saying. that is why we are allowed an hour to change our posts. Usually the meat of the message remains the same. in my case i am trying to trim down my messages to make them easier to read.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> deleted my post.


 I have qualify what I said about editing posts. Lots of people have excellent reasons besides being self-serving to edit a post.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have qualify what I said about editing posts. Lots of people have excellent reasons besides being self-serving to edit a post.


I am glad you re- thought your original statement - I think it is a perfectly acceptable method of improving what we are trying to say- I use it all the time - so do a lot of other people.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I love farmer's markets! sounds great!


It was quite nice. I bought a bottle of specialty hot sauce, 2 spinach puffs, 6 squares of baklava, a bag of kettle corn, 2 fresh-squeezed lemonades, 2 packages of Jacques noir cheese, a pint of blueberries, and some maple syrup. On one side were some vintage automobiles and a band playing Santana. Lots of babies, pups, and families. Next week I'll get some pickling cukes (she sold out in 30 minutes) and see what the cheese offering is. They make new varieties all the time.

I can't take the cheese out of the fridge without Mr. Toby giving me the begging eyes.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It's a very rare occasion when I go over to FFD&P but I gave into the perverse desire to see what's up with those folks at the moment. I was curious about what the enemy was up to. Well, that was a bad idea. Please see my remarks about my experience on "Current Events".


No thanks, I am having a bad enough time trying to explain to some KPers that PETA has a hidden agenda and that their video is a put up job. Venturing over to FFD&P, you are very brave.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> may those who cannot get pregnant (Males) not be allowed to make the Laws. (Supreme Court).


Then by your reasoning, those who cannot get pregnant (the men on the SC) should not have passed Roe vs Wade.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then by your reasoning, those who cannot get pregnant (the men on the SC) should not have passed Roe vs Wade.


Those who can perform abortions (mainly men) should have been - and were - represented on the SC. That would be the logical conclusion.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am glad you re- thought your original statement - I think it is a perfectly acceptable method of improving what we are trying to say- I use it all the time - so do a lot of other people.


Designer1234
those who never edit, never think.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> those who never edit, never think.


 ;-) ;-) I must be a great great thinker! I am really editing lately and the original statement was ridiculous. Glad it was taken back.I found I had to edit just about everything when i was starting up a workshop as each one was different with no way you could use the same info on more than one class.

It is second nature now. Nice to know I am a thinker! I am glad as It sounded as if I was sleazy until it was corrected . {That would be in agreement with Solo who is my biggest fan}!.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Then by your reasoning, those who cannot get pregnant (the men on the SC) should not have passed Roe vs Wade.


soloweygirl
we sometimes have no choice and have to live with what we have and of course are trying diligently to bring about changes. At least those positioned than made the right legal/medical decision. I addition a democratic one according to the wishes of WE THE PEOPLE. The present day Supreme Court caters to a certain segment of Society and that is irresponsible law making.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A heart attack at 73 is not what I'd call an unfortunate end. Suicide at 59, okay. Sylvia Plath, like a good housewife, died at 31 with her head in the oven.


Considering what kind of marriage she had with Ted Hughes, she apparently thought she may as well be dead. From what I read about him he was a total s**t.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:



> Considering what kind of marriage she had with Ted Hughes, she apparently thought she may as well be dead. From what I read about him he was a total s**t.


And she was chronically depressed. There are less damaging ways to get out of a marriage.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> Like I stated- the government is important. However, at this point in time, they aren't looking out for the little guy.


Part of the problem is that holding government office has become a career for too many people. The President has term limits, and the other elected representatives should as well. When someone is in office for 5, 10, 15 terms he or she begins to take for granted the powers inherent to the job and does too much wheeling and dealing for personal gain. These people become jaded and the rest of us suffer. But the constituents keep voting for their incumbents and hoping their longevity in office will bring more pork to the local trough. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It is the only way we can correct or clarify something we have written. I do it quite often to try to clarify what I am saying. that is why we are allowed an hour to change our posts. Usually the meat of the message remains the same. in my case i am trying to trim down my messages to make them easier to read.


I usually do it to attempt greater semantic clarity or to check my punctuation.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> No thanks, I am having a bad enough time trying to explain to some KPers that PETA has a hidden agenda and that their video is a put up job. Venturing over to FFD&P, you are very brave.


Actually she wanted them to know how much she agreed with Joey about this thread (not about abortion, I think) but then she said has stated that here quite often?That we shouldn't be here- I have trouble following her thoughts as she seems to be attacking here as much as joining in. she confuses me.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Is this you being a "slippery sneak" or should we give you the benefit of the doubt that you deny others?
> 
> I know I often end up editing my posts because they don't always look how I think they're going to look until after I hit the send button.
> 
> ...


I find it a very helpful tool. I wish we could write them and edit them and then post them but it isn't possible here. It would make it much better but would be difficult to have that ability . That is why they give us an hour to make sure our posts say what we want them to say.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

TrueAthena said:


> Is this you being a "slippery sneak" or should we give you the benefit of the doubt that you deny others?
> 
> I know I often end up editing my posts because they don't always look how I think they're going to look until after I hit the send button.
> 
> ...


Great message. Very funny.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

TrueAthena said:


> Is this you being a "slippery sneak" or should we give you the benefit of the doubt that you deny others?
> 
> I know I often end up editing my posts because they don't always look how I think they're going to look until after I hit the send button.
> 
> ...


This is very funny, Your clever humor reminds me of someone else's who used to be here. Glad you can fill in.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Part of the problem is that holding government office has become a career for too many people. The President has term limits, and the other elected representatives should as well. When someone is in office for 5, 10, 15 terms he or she begins to take for granted the powers inherent to the job and does too much wheeling and dealing for personal gain. These people become jaded and the rest of us suffer. But the constituents keep voting for their incumbents and hoping their longevity in office will bring more pork to the local trough. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


I have wondered whether that would work. maybe a period of 8 years total and then either retirement or having to miss 4 years before running again and a maximum number of years in total allowed? that would stir things up a bit. I think it would work better up here too. We have a Senate where appointments of those who have served the Government well are appointed. however that has backfired recently as it has been misused by quite a few in their expense accounts etc.

They feel they can do what they want without any one to stop what they think is their due. frustrating.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have qualify what I said about editing posts. Lots of people have excellent reasons besides being self-serving to edit a post.


MaidInBedlam
with an intelligent writer, the first draft is rarely the final one. Most likely the first one is NEVER the final one.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Great message. Very funny.


love it. well put!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Actually she wanted them to know how much she agreed with Joey about this thread (not about abortion, I think) but then she said has stated that here quite often?That we shouldn't be here- I have trouble following her thoughts as she seems to be attacking here as much as joining in. she confuses me.


This was a post I didn't preview - I sure did a poor job writing it. My grammar and spelling both need attention. Sorry :shock: :shock: :wink:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> those who never edit, never think.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Words of wisdom.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Consider the Supreme Court. Appointed for life with no mandatory retirement.



MarilynKnits said:


> Part of the problem is that holding government office has become a career for too many people. The President has term limits, and the other elected representatives should as well. When someone is in office for 5, 10, 15 terms he or she begins to take for granted the powers inherent to the job and does too much wheeling and dealing for personal gain. These people become jaded and the rest of us suffer. But the constituents keep voting for their incumbents and hoping their longevity in office will bring more pork to the local trough. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

PP is still here.



SQM said:


> This is very funny, Your clever humor reminds me of someone else's who used to be here. Glad you can fill in.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> PP is still here.


Athena reminds me of Cooke. Of course we still have our Great Gem.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Actually she wanted them to know how much she agreed with Joey about this thread (not about abortion, I think) but then she said has stated that here quite often?That we shouldn't be here- I have trouble following her thoughts as she seems to be attacking here as much as joining in. she confuses me.


Seems to happen regularly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Great message. Very funny.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: TrueAthena is a great wit and well-versed. It's a pleasure to read her comments.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Thanks for taking time.



Tseen Kee said:


> Playing the race card I see.
> 
> Black women in poor areas have a difficult time getting consistent affordable birth control methods. Especially in Repuglican controlled states that defund necessary social programs.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have wondered whether that would work. maybe a period of 8 years total and then either retirement or having to miss 4 years before running again and a maximum number of years in total allowed? that would stir things up a bit. I think it would work better up here too. We have a Senate where appointments of those who have served the Government well are appointed. however that has backfired recently as it has been misused by quite a few in their expense accounts etc.
> 
> They feel they can do what they want without any one to stop what they think is their due. frustrating.


I think limited terms in office could also be of benefit here in Australia. 
Bob Menzies was our Prime Minister from 1949, when he defeated the Labor Party and won the election, until he retired in 1966. A total of 17 years. John Howard was Prime Minister for almost 12 years and he was hoping to beat Bob Menzies length of time in the office. John Howard was defeated by Labor, led by Kevin Rudd in 2007. We also have Members of Parliament who are long serving members. Bronwyn Bishop was elected to the Senate in 1987. Within eighteen months of her election, she was appointed an Opposition Shadow Minister.
Mrs Bishop resigned from the Senate in February 1994 and was elected to the House of Representatives in March 1994 as the Member for Mackellar in a by-election. She has been a member of Parliament now for 27 years.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Woman 20 This ??[/I]
> 
> http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/14/woman-20-weeks-/


joeysomma
you said: "excuse for ignorance", what is yours?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Talk about a war on women, why is the press not allowed to visit the detention centers or talk to the people there? Could it be that they are detention centers similar to ones in WWII for the Japanese? Where is the transparency? Where is the press screaming for their Freedom of the Press? But then again where was Obama this weekend? Was he in his office with the Israelis? Nope. Was he visiting the border states to see first hand what the problem is all about? Nope. Was he working on getting our Marine out of the Mexican jail? Nope. Was he coordinating an effort to find the lost emails? Nope. Oh that's right, our fearful leader was off playing golf again. Guess there were no fund raisers to attend.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Talk about a war on women, why is the press not allowed to visit the detention centers or talk to the people there? Could it be that they are detention centers similar to ones in WWII for the Japanese? Where is the transparency? Where is the press screaming for their Freedom of the Press? But then again where was Obama this weekend? Was he in his office with the Israelis? Nope. Was he visiting the border states to see first hand what the problem is all about? Nope. Was he working on getting our Marine out of the Mexican jail? Nope. Was he coordinating an effort to find the lost emails? Nope. Oh that's right, our fearful leader was off playing golf again. Guess there were no fund raisers to attend.


I am finding that the reason the detention centers are not open to the press and people in Congress is because they don't want the truth to come out about the age and sex of the illegals. There are more males of ages 14 to 17 that have crossed the border than infants and small children. These young males are already being recruited b y the gangs. That is why only a few photos are being shown to the public. These teens know what they are doing and are certainly not the refugees the left has proclaimed them to be. If the truth was shown, the gov't would lose credibility.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I am finding that the reason the detention centers are not open to the press and people in Congress is because they don't want the truth to come out about the age and sex of the illegals. There are more males of ages 14 to 17 that have crossed the border than infants and small children. These young males are already being recruited b y the gangs. That is why only a few photos are being shown to the public. These teens know what they are doing and are certainly not the refugees the left has proclaimed them to be. If the truth was shown, the gov't would lose credibility.


It would be interesting to know what both you and LTL would do with the thousands of children at the borders. I think Joey would fight for the right to keep them here because she is very pro-child, but what would you do with these kids? And what should Obama do? And what should Comgress do?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It would be interesting to know what both you and LTL would do with the thousands of children at the borders. I think Joey would fight for the right to keep them here because she is very pro-child, but what would you do with these kids? And what should Obama do? And what should Comgress do?


When it comes to it, what should the governments of their home countries have done to provide a safe environment for their citizens? If all was well in the world order, which it is not, obviously, each nation would have in place Child Protective Services, assistance for the impoverished, and other social services common to civilized countries.

Perhaps I have watched too many episodes of the X Files and see conspiracies where they may or may not be, but it seems opportunistic and suspicious that these poor children, who are pawns in a dreadful situation, are being sent to the US enmasse. I highly doubt that a four year old or even a twelve year old would leave the only home they know by themselves and take a perilous trip to a strange destination. If they are so poor, who is paying their bus fare, buying their food for the trip, and otherwise financing this emigration?

When my husband's grandmother fled the pogroms in Belarus in 1906, she took an infant and a toddler along with some portable possessions and pushed a wheelbarrow across Europe to Calais. She and others with whom she walked stopped in tiny villages and were sheltered in barns along the way. Her husband had gone ahead the year before, leaving her with a baby, not knowing she was pregnant with my mother in law, and with help from HIAS (The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society) had a steerage ticket waiting for her. The ship broke apart in the North Atlantic, and they had the good fortune to have two other ships sailing nearby rescue the passengers. In the US there was no welfare, no SNAP, no ADC. They were expected to earn their living, learn English, apply for citizenship, and not be a burden on society. Organizations like HIAS and the Educational Alliance helped guide them and immigrants who came before them helped them settle in.

Of course there were bad actors among the good people who came for a safer and better life. People like Meyer Lansky were an absolute embarrassment. But the vast majority worked hard for low wages, sent their children to college, and lived in safety from the knock on the door in the middle of the night or the thatch roof set on fire to kill the sleeping family.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I am finding that the reason the detention centers are not open to the press and people in Congress is because they don't want the truth to come out about the age and sex of the illegals. There are more males of ages 14 to 17 that have crossed the border than infants and small children. These young males are already being recruited b y the gangs. That is why only a few photos are being shown to the public. These teens know what they are doing and are certainly not the refugees the left has proclaimed them to be. If the truth was shown, the gov't would lose credibility.


Are you "finding," or are you guessing? How does one go about "finding" such things?

Or do you see yourself as a judge publishing her findings, as in "I find for the plaintiff"?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> When it comes to it, what should the governments of their home countries have done to provide a safe environment for their citizens? If all was well in the world order, which it is not, obviously, each nation would have in place Child Protective Services, assistance for the impoverished, and other social services common to civilized countries.
> 
> Perhaps I have watched too many episodes of the X Files and see conspiracies where they may or may not be, but it seems opportunistic and suspicious that these poor children, who are pawns in a dreadful situation, are being sent to the US enmasse. I highly doubt that a four year old or even a twelve year old would leave the only home they know by themselves and take a perilous trip to a strange destination. If they are so poor, who is paying their bus fare, buying their food for the trip, and otherwise financing this emigration?
> 
> ...


I don't doubt that the parents of these children sent them here to find a better life. What an awful choice that must have been! I'm sure the parents thought that the conditions in their own countries were so awful that they would have their chuldrens' lives put in danger just for a chance for something better.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

A bit of information about the economic conditions in Central America and why children are sent to the U S. Once again it is a problem created by us and now no one wants to see the results of our greed and stupid foriegn economic policies.


Central Americans Speak Out Against CAFTA
Central Americans Speak Out Against DR-CAFTA: Major Issues and Mobilizations

Alliance for Responsible Trade
Karen Hansen-Kuhn, March 2005

Introduction: Why Central Americans Oppose DR-CAFTA

When the Bush Administration announced in 2002 the initiation of talks toward the establishment of a U.S.-Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA, also known as DR-CAFTA after the inclusion of the Dominican Republic in 2004), it declared that the accord would advance "regional stability, democracy and economic development." Central Americans organized in unions, women's, environmental, family-farm, consumer and youth organizations and social movements, on the other hand, have expressed their alarm at the agreement's potential consequences in a series of protests, workshops, conferences and press events designed to increase public awareness about these damaging potential impacts. These events have paralleled the negotiations and the present planning for the accord's submission to the U.S. and Central American legislatures for approval, perhaps later this year.

The issues that most concern Central Americans vary from country to country. In Costa Rica, for example, there has been considerable opposition to provisions in DR-CAFTA that would serve to privatize the country's inexpensive and well functioning telecommunications system. In El Salvador, much of the protest has focused on the link between efforts to privatize public-health care and provisions in DR-CAFTA that would expedite the sector's privatization and make it permanent.

Some issues have resonated throughout the region. Central Americans look with alarm at the experience of Mexican farmers under NAFTA, realizing that their own agricultural sectors, which are the source of up to half of local employment, could be devastated by imports of low-cost farm goods from the United States. Many civil-society groups in every country in the region are also strongly opposed to provisions in DR-CAFTA on investment, services, and government procurement, among others, that would make it extremely difficult, if not virtually impossible, for local governments to respond to democratic initiatives to design and implement sustainable and equitable national development programs.

Civil-society programs to educate local populations about DR-CAFTA are more advanced in Central America than in the Dominican Republic, which was "docked in" to DR-CAFTA last year after a short series of hasty negotiations. Even so, Dominican groups are committed to broadening the public debate on the accord in their country. In February 2005, 62 civil-society organizations, led by the Dominican Medical College, held an Alternative Social Forum. Citing the agreement's potential impacts on Dominican family farmers and on people's access to low-cost medicines, participants in the Forum agreed to launch a major public-education campaign and to urge their legislators to reject the proposed accord.

The Dominican and Central American organizations opposing DR-CAFTA, like their allies in the United States, are not against increasing trade and other economic ties among our seven countries. They believe, however, that the provisions of DR-CAFTA constitute the wrong rules for regional integration. They are therefore calling for the rejection of DR-CAFTA and for the initiation of a greatly expanded public dialogue in each nation with civil society to shape a set of economic relations among the countries of the region that would lead to just and sustainable development.

Guatemala: Devastating Impacts on Agriculture and Sovereignty

As Mexico's closest neighbors, Guatemalans view the Mexican experience under NAFTA with grave concern, particularly the fact that some 1.3 million Mexican farmers have been displaced by imports of cheap U.S. agricultural goods. Agriculture makes up 23% of Guatemala's GDP and is the source of 50% of its employment. The Coordination of NGOs and Cooperatives (CONGOOD) carried out a detailed study of the potential impact of DR-CAFTA on Guatemalan agriculture, particularly on the export and import of 24 key crops. CONGCOOP concludes that the agreement could result in a net loss of between 45,000 and 124,000 jobs. The job losses among white-corn producers (who account for 38 percent of employment in the country) could be especially severe during the first year of implementation, when production could fall by as much as 80 percent.

Not surprisingly, family-farm and indigenous organizations have been at the forefront of demonstrations against the agreement. In a recent protest at the national Congress, Nery Barrios of Unity of Union and Popular Action (UASP) emphasized that, "campesinos won't be able to produce corn, beans, rice or grains, because those goods will come from abroad at lower prices. They will be genetically modified goods that will affect Guatemalans' health." Indigenous groups assert that the agreement violates their rights under ILO Convention 169 (which Guatemala ratified in 1996), which states that they must be consulted on issues that affect their rights to land or livelihoods.

Over the past few months, a new issue has emerged: the Guatemalan Congress's right to establish laws regarding the production and marketing of generic medicines. The Congress approved legislation in December 2004 that eliminated a five-year ban on the use of test data on pharmaceutical products. Under the old ban generic producers were forced to conduct their own trials on the safety of medicines in order to gain marketing authority, which is prohibitively expensive. The office of the U.S. Trade Representative has threatened to remove Guatemala from DR-CAFTA unless the five-year protection on the use of test data is reinstated. Luis Velazquez of the Association of Pharmaceutical Industries of Guatemala (ASINFRAGUA) called this pressure "an abuse" and said that it violates the country's sovereignty.

Guatemalan organizations have also protested the lack of public debate on DR-CAFTA and have insisted on a public consultation on the accord. The Mesa Global, a multisectoral coalition on trade and development, has, in working with other organizations, gathered 25,000 letters to legislators demanding that they convene a public consultation on the ratification of this accord. They urge the Congress not to rush through a vote but instead to carefully consider the potential consequences for the country's future economic and social development.

Guatemalan Demonstrations against CAFTA

12 October 2002: Mobilizations against CAFTA are held throughout Central America. A thousand indigenous Guatemalans block the Pan-American Highway at Huehuetenango, and 6,000 protestors block highways, airports and border crossings in Petén.

12 May 2003: Hundreds of farmers protest outside the site of the fourth round of official negotiations in Guatemala City. "We want to continue working without the threat of an invasion of subsidized U.S. products, as occurred in Mexico under NAFTA," the protestors announce in a press statement.

26 November 2003: 20,000 Guatemalan family farmers and indigenous people march to demand changes in the government's agricultural and land-tenure policies and to protest CAFTA, the FTAA and Plan Puebla Panama.

23 March 2004: Thousands of Guatemalan farmers, women, workers and youth march and block roads to protest CAFTA, Plan Puebla Panama and recent price increases on consumer goods.

31 March 2004: More than 10,000 indigenous Guatemalans organized by the Mayan Wagib'Kij march to demand that the government cancel permits for mining on their lands and that it review CAFTA, the FTAA and PPP and initiate a process to redefine those agreements in consultation with indigenous peoples.

8 June 2004: Thousands of Guatemalan farmers, workers and indigenous peoples block highways and border crossings, protesting violent land evictions, proposals for regressive taxes and CAFTA (now known as DR-CAFTA after the addition of the Dominican Republic). The government agrees to a series of commitments in response to the protests, including a promise to hold public hearings on DR-CAFTA throughout the country.

12 October 2004: Nearly 12,000 Guatemalans, led by indigenous and campesino organizations, march in Guatemala City against DR-CAFTA. "The FTA will only bring more poverty to our country," said Daniel Pascual of the National Coordination of Campesino Organizations (CNOC, quoted in La Prensa).

11 January 2005: Several hundred representatives of the National October 20 Coalition protest at the U.S. Embassy against pressure by the U.S. government to rescind legislation on patent protections to make the Guatemalan law consistent with DR-CAFTA.

11 February 2005: More than 300 representatives of unions and family-farm and other civil-society organizations demonstrate at the national Congress to demand that the legislators authorize a popular consultation on the agreement rather than ratify it.

1 March 2005: More than 8,000 Guatemalans march to the Plaza of the Constitution to demand that legislators vote against DR-CAFTA and mining concessions to foreign companies.

El Salvador: Health Care, Labor Rights and Democracy

Despite the fact that El Salvador was the first country to ratify DR-CAFTA, it has also been the site of massive protests against the proposed accord. Hundreds of thousands of Salvadorans have participated in numerous protests against DR-CAFTA, expressing concerns about the potential impacts on the country's public health-care system, labor rights, and its future democratic development.

Perhaps the most explosive issue in recent years in El Salvador has been the proposed privatization of public health care. Since the late 1990s, the government has moved to weaken unions in the sector through huge layoffs and to contract out certain health-care services to private companies. In response, local unions organized a series of protests, culminating in a demonstration in March 2003 by some 250,000 people from a broad variety of sectors. The government was compelled to back down on those plans, although it has yet to fulfill promises to rehire workers who went on strike or to end private concessions being granted at public hospitals.

Based on the experiences of other countries that have privatized public-health services, Salvadorans are concerned that such plans will result in a sharp rise in prices for those essential services. The privatization plans are seen as precursors to DR-CAFTA, since once a service has been opened to contracts with private providers, the trade agreement would ban restrictions on foreign investment in that service. In addition, if a future government were to decide to reinstate the public provision of health care, under the terms of the agreement's investment chapter, it would be subject to potentially ruinous lawsuits by private companies alleging that such moves would undermine their potential profits.

Salvadorans have also expressed concerns that the proposed agreement would weaken protections for labor rights. Just before the vote in the Salvadoran Assembly, Human Rights Ombudsperson Beatrice Alamanni de Carrillo issued a public letter urging the Assembly not to rush through a vote on the accord. In the letter, she stated that her office had carried out an in-depth analysis of DR-CAFTA "that reflects the serious impact of the Agreement on the right to work and to organize trade unions -- despite the fact that the Agreement includes chapters on labor and the environment." The multisectoral Sinti Techan network issued a similar statement, decrying the fact that, rather than improve on existing labor-rights review mechanisms under the Generalized System of Preferences and the Caribbean Basin Initiative, "the agreement eliminates the verification of labor rights issues, instead substituting a rhetorical and unenforceable 'Labor Chapter'. As a result, the legitimate aspirations of millions of workers in the region for improvements in their working conditions become even more distant."

In February 2005, the Sinti Techan network presented a legal challenge to the ratification of DR-CAFTA, alleging that the agreement violates constitutional guarantees for labor rights, health care and other economic and social rights, and that it contradicts existing international commitments on regional integration and environmental protection. Despite its ratification in December in a legislative session held in the middle of the night, the public debate on DR-CAFTA in El Salvador is far from over.

Demonstrations against DR-CAFTA in El Salvador

24 March 2002: "Another Central America is Possible" forum is held in San Salvador. Hundreds of activists from the region gather to discuss the potential impacts of CAFTA. The forum results in the formation of the Central American Popular Bloc, which coordinates actions on CAFTA throughout the region.

17 September 2002: Salvadoran health-care workers declare a national strike against privatization, union busting and CAFTA, which they see as inter-related.

12 October 2002: Mobilizations are held throughout the region. Some 13,000 Salvadorans march and peacefully obstruct 11 border crossing points to protest CAFTA, Plan Puebla Panama and the FTAA.

22 October 2002: More than 150,000 Salvadorans march to protest plans to privatize health care and electricity, which are seen as key elements in the government's plans for CAFTA and Plan Puebla Panama.

9 January 2003: Tens of thousands of Salvadoran activists protest the formal initiation of CAFTA negotiations, which begin that week in Washington, DC. The protesters in San Salvador blockade roads and bridges, occupy the city's cathedral and block entrances to three factories controlled by transnational corporations.

6 February 2003: Some 125,000 Salvadorans march against the privatization of health care and CAFTA.

13 March 2003: Nearly 250,000 Salvadorans march again against the privatization of health care and CAFTA.

2 April 2003: Tens of thousands of protesters from all over Central America hold a rally outside the official CAFTA negotiating session being held in San Salvador.

10-12 December 2003: Over 2,000 Salvadoran farmers, students and other citizens' groups march to the capital to protest the final round of CAFTA negotiations being held that week in Washington, DC.

19-21 July 2004: Social movement leaders from throughout Central America meet in El Salvador at the fifth Mesoamerican Forum. Representatives of more than 700 organizations sign a petition against DR-CAFTA.

12 October 2004: Thousands of people mobilize against DR-CAFTA. Similar mobilizations are carried out on this day throughout Central America.

16 December 2004: Representatives of the MPR-12 network peacefully occupy the National Congress to voice their opposition to DR-CAFTA. Hundreds more gather outside the Congress.

22 December 2004: Activists block highways at ten locations across the country to protest the Salvadoran Assembly's ratification of DR-CAFTA.

Honduras: Trading Away Farms to Save Sweatshops?

Since Honduras was devastated by Hurricane Mitch in 1998, the economy has been slowly recovering, although the government estimates that nearly a third of the economically active population is still either unemployed or underemployed. Many of the arguments being made now in favor of DR-CAFTA's ratification assert that provisions in the agreement will save jobs in the country's maquila sector. They ignore, however, the potential impacts on the agricultural sector, which is the source of 36.6% of employment.

Some 120,000 people work in the Honduran maquila sector, primarily in textile exports. The recent expiration of quotas under the Multi-Fibre Arrangement means that those goods are now forced to compete with exports from China, where wages are even lower than in Honduras (and other Central American countries). DR-CAFTA's promoters insist that the tariff reductions under the agreement would give local textile exports a cost advantage that would allow those goods to continue to compete with the Chinese goods.

Honduran unions, family-farm organizations and other social movements question, however, the wisdom of continuing to favor that sector at the expense of agricultural production. During the 1990s, when agricultural tariffs and public support for agriculture were slashed, the maquila sector received tax holidays and subsidized services, including energy, port and other facilities. In a January 2005 letter to members of the Honduran Congress, four labor federations, the Honduran Popular Bloc, the National Campesino Council and 14 social movements state that, "it was a mistake to dismantle our national productive sector, destroying the agrarian reform process and the social sector of the economy and essentially betting everything on the maquilas. DR-CAFTA will not lead to any substantive changes in the maquila scheme. To the contrary, it will reinforce its current logic, making jobs even more precarious and demanding even more subsidies from the State (our people) in the hope of competing with China."

Raf Flores, a local analyst, points to the experience of rice production under the trade liberalization that has already taken place. Honduras was once self-sufficient in rice production; next year it will produce a mere 20 percent of local demand. Flores warns that if DR-CAFTA is implemented, some 700,000 farmers and their families could be thrown out of work and forced to seek employment elsewhere. In essence, he explains, provisions in the agreement could potentially protect 120,000 jobs at the expense of those 700,000.

These issues, as well as concerns that the agreement contradicts the Honduran constitution and would severely constrain the government's ability to implement development policies, are being echoed in the Honduran Congress. In a September letter to the U.S. Congress signed by 31 members of the Honduran Congress from all major political parties, the legislators assert, "DR-CAFTA is a pre-announced Mitch. The negative impacts on the Honduran population will be equal to or greater than the disasters caused by that hurricane in 1998...We urge you to vote no on DR-CAFTA."

Key Demonstrations against DR-CAFTA in Honduras

22-23 June 2002: Over 1,000 representatives of social movements from Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras meet in Choluteca, Honduras at the Mesoamerican Forum. They declare their rejection of CAFTA, the FTAA and Plan Puebla Panama and develop plans for public education and mobilization.

12 October 2002: Mobilizations are held throughout the region. In Honduras, marches in Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula and Choluteca draw thousands of people protesting CAFTA and the privatization of health care, water and education.

21-24 July 2003: More than 1,500 activists from Central America and Mexico attend the Fourth Mesoamerican Conference, "For People's Self-Determination and Resistance," in Tegucigalpa. The conference culminates in a march to the presidential palace attended by more than 10,000 people opposed to CAFTA and Plan Puebla Panama.

5 February 2004: More than 15,000 Hondurans mobilized by the Bloque Popular Hondureño demonstrate against CAFTA.

8 March 2004: Hundreds of Honduran women march in Tegucigalpa on International Women's Day, demanding greater political representation in the country and voicing their rejection of CAFTA.

12 March 2004: Some 3,000 Honduran consumer activists demonstrate against recent price increases and CAFTA.

20 March 2004: Some 4,000 Honduran activists, including a large contingent of indigenous people, demonstrate against CAFTA and the Iraq War.

1 May 2004: Demonstrations commemorating Labor Day take place throughout Central America. Some 15,000 Honduran workers take to the streets and present a list of 12 demands, including a call on the government not to ratify CAFTA.

2 July 2004: Honduran students, teachers and workers blockade streets in Tegucigalpa to protest the lack of any response by the government to the demands presented on 1 May.

28 September 2004: Members of the Bloque Popular deliver over 18,000 letters to the National Congress demanding that the legislators reject DR-CAFTA.

23-27 December 2004: A series of demonstrations and marches occur to protest plans to ratify DR-CAFTA during the holidays. Members of the Bloque Popular peacefully occupy the Congress to prevent a secret middle-of-the-night vote on the agreement.

11 February 2005: Hundreds of people attend the "People's Congress", urging legislators to reject DR-CAFTA.

Nicaragua: Agriculture and Water

Many Nicaraguans are deeply concerned that DR-CAFTA would devastate the country's food production and limit citizens' access to water, a commodity that many argue should be considered a basic human right.

The Nicaraguan economy is highly dependent on agriculture, even more so than other Central American economies. According Nicaraguan economist Adolfo Acevedo, agricultural production accounts for 28 percent of the country's GDP and 42 percent of employment (compared to an average of 26 percent in the rest of Central America). Corn, rice and beans are essential crops for many farmers, both as sources of income and food for their families.

Under the terms of DR-CAFTA, these farmers, most of whom lack credit, technical assistance and access to irrigation, would be forced to compete with highly productive, highly subsidized U.S. goods. According to Oxfam International's Carlos Galian, U.S. exports of corn to Nicaragua under DR-CAFTA could increase by 10,000 percent the first year alone. "In the final analysis," Acevedo concludes, "what is at stake for the long term is not just the possibility of preserving a large part of the national food production, assuring food sovereignty, or of losing the possibility of developing a multifunctional and sustainable rural economy, which on its own has fundamental importance, but the fate of the labor force itself, and, more deeply yet, the fate of the human beings linked to this production."

Nicaraguans are also concerned that the agreement would further the privatization of water, a proposal currently being promoted by the Inter-American Development Bank. The IDB water "modernization" proposal includes contracting out the management of water systems. Carlos Pacheco, Executive Director of the Center for International Studies, explains that, despite the government's claims that the agreement would not mandate privatization, the government procurement provisions in DR-CAFTA would require more than one third of the country's municipalities to open the management of their water systems to bidding by private, including foreign, companies.

So far, this proposal has been stalled because of massive public resistance. Ruth Herrera, coordinator of the Consumers' Defense Network, explains, "More than half of all Nicaraguans lack potable water in their homes. This vital service must be expanded and administered solely by the public sector in our country in the interests of the people and their household and productive activities and not as a commodity to be sold for profit. The Consumers' Defense Network is fighting against the privatization of water and water distribution management which is being pushed by the Inter-American Development Bank, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund and now by the provisions of CAFTA. We see access to water as a basic human right."

Protests against CAFTA in Nicaragua

16-18 July 2002: Third Mesoamerican Forum is held in Managua. More than 1,000 representatives from citizens' groups in Central American and Mexico gather to discuss strategies around CAFTA and Plan Puebla Panama.

12 October 2002: Mobilizations are held against CAFTA throughout the region. Thousands of Nicaraguans rally in Managua.

12 January 2003: Nicaraguan environmental and union activists gather outside the National Assembly to protest CAFTA. The groups call on legislators to reject the privatization of water (seen as a first step in the CAFTA process) and to demand genuine public participation in the CAFTA talks.

3-4 June 2003: More than 600 people representing the Central American Popular Bloc gather in Managua for a two-day strategy session on CAFTA. The meeting coincides with a round of official CAFTA talks, and protests are held in front of the hotel where the talks are being conducted.

18 September 2003: Some 10,000 Nicaraguans from unions and family-farm, women's youth, consumer, environmental and other citizens' organizations gather to protest the official CAFTA talks being held in Managua.

12 October 2004: Thousands of Nicaraguans march to protest water privatization and DR-CAFTA.

18 September 2003 March against CAFTA.

Costa Rica: Undermining Democracy and the Environment

Costa Rica is known for its long history of democracy, its relatively low levels of poverty, and its pristine national parks and natural resources. Unfortunately, each of these achievements could be threatened if DR-CAFTA were to be implemented.

The proposed opening of the telecommunications sector to foreign investment under DR-CAFTA has generated extensive public opposition. Costa Rica has a publicly owned electricity and telecommunications system that provides telephone services to 97 percent of the population at prices comparable to those in the United States and lower than those in any other Latin American country. Under the current system, profits from internet and cell-phone services are used to subsidize rural telephone services and internet services in public schools. Under DR-CAFTA, the internet and cellular phone services (the most profitable sectors, which are projected to grow the most in the next few years) would be opened to competition from foreign companies, leaving the public system with only regular phone service. This would likely result in sharp increases in prices to consumers and massive layoffs.

Costa Ricans were astonished that these provisions were included in the agreement, given the turmoil caused by a similar proposal just two years earlier. In 2000, President Miguel Angel Rodríguez (now charged with corruption arising from payments he received from Alcatel, a French telephone company), proposed the privatization of the Costa Rican Electricity Institute (ICE), which provides both energy and telecommunications services. People took to the streets in a series of massive protests and roadblocks lasting over two weeks, leading the national Congress to reject the proposal. The privatization plan appeared to have died until it suddenly appeared in the DR-CAFTA text during the last few days of negotiations.

Many Costa Ricans are also concerned that the investment provisions in DR-CAFTA could threaten the country's high environmental standards. The Costa Rican government recently denied the U.S.-based Harken Energy Corp. a permit to conduct offshore oil exploration because of a very negative environmental impact assessment of the proposed project (a normal requirement under Costa Rican law). Harken attempted to sue the Costa Rican government for US$57 billion (a figure that far exceeds the country's entire GDP) under the World Bank's International Convention for the Settlement of International Disputes (ICSID). Because Costa Rica is not a party to ICSID and has not signed a bilateral investment treaty with the United States, the government was able to avoid the ICSID arbitration process and remove the matter to its the local court system for resolution.

Ottón Solís, a former finance minister and current head of the progressive Partido de Acción Ciudadana said, "The U.S. promotes CAFTA as a tool to enhance democracy, but it would actually weaken our democratically built judicial institutions by creating supra-national mechanisms for U.S. companies to bypass our courts and sue governments when they believe their profits are being harmed by regulations." Solís, along with members of Congress from the three major political parties and tens of thousands of Costa Ricans who have taken to the streets to protest such measures, demand that DR-CAFTA be rejected and new talks for sustainable trade and development begin.

Key Mobilizations against CAFTA in Costa Rica

27 January 2003: Hundreds of Costa Rican activists from social movements, unions and environmental groups hold a peaceful protest against CAFTA parallel to the round of official negotiations being held in San Jose.

20 October 2003: More than 3,000 Costa Rican students, workers and activists march to the Congress to demand that it reject CAFTA.

21 November 2003: 5,000 Costa Rican telecommunications and insurance workers (sectors that would likely be privatized under CAFTA), along with students and other activists, march to Congress and to the Presidential Palace to express their opposition to CAFTA.

1 May 2004: Demonstrations commemorating Labor Day take place throughout the region. More than 6,000 Costa Ricans march against the privatization of public telecommunications and insurance services and the signing of CAFTA.

31 May 2004: Some 20,000 Costa Ricans march to the National Assembly to express their opposition to CAFTA. Legislator Gloria Valerín (PUSC, the majority party) vows to vote against the agreement, adding, "I am pleasantly surprised by the massive support for this effort by the Costa Rican people. Now it is our job to make sure more Deputies vote against CAFTA." (La Nación, 1 June 2004)

23-30 August 2004: Tens of thousands of Costa Ricans bring the country to a halt in demonstrations against a foreign company's control of vehicle inspection services, against the possible ratification of DR-CAFTA and for much needed wage increases. The government accedes to several of the protesters' demands, leading to resignations by four ministers (including the trade and finance ministers) and other top economic advisors.

12 October 2004: Nearly 30,000 Costa Ricans protest against DR-CAFTA and corruption scandals involving foreign investment in public utilities, especially the tele-communications sector. Two former presidents are charged with accepting bribes from foreign firms interested in investing in strategic sectors.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Peacegoddess
thank you for all of the detailed information. I hard copied and shall read it carefully.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> A bit of information about the economic conditions in Central America and why children are sent to the U S. Once again it is a problem created by us and now no one wants to see the results of our greed and stupid foriegn economic policies.
> 
> Central Americans Speak Out Against CAFTA
> Central Americans Speak Out Against DR-CAFTA: Major Issues and Mobilizations
> ...


===========
Very interesting- I am copying it too and will read it tonight.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I am finding that the reason the detention centers are not open to the press and people in Congress is because they don't want the truth to come out about the age and sex of the illegals. There are more males of ages 14 to 17 that have crossed the border than infants and small children. These young males are already being recruited b y the gangs. That is why only a few photos are being shown to the public. These teens know what they are doing and are certainly not the refugees the left has proclaimed them to be. If the truth was shown, the gov't would lose credibility.


Loose what credibility?

Also there are gang members (MS13? not sure but it is the most violent one) tat are 16 and 17. They are considered minors in this country and violent and vicious killers in there own. So now we have even more gang members in our country.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Acamar said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> However, the reason the conservatives feel the way they do is that they just don't have the compassion to care about these kids as fellow human beings. They don't care why these kids are being sent to the US.


These kids are going to cost a lot of money to take care of, and if in the future their parents are allowed in, it may be costlier still. This should be handled by an international agency, not left up to the US citizens to pay for.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Acamar said:


> Yes, I agree, that seems to be what they think.
> 
> Never mind that it's immigrants that are as responsible as any other group, if not MORE SO, for enriching this country and making it better.
> 
> However, I do agree that the US should not be the only ones on the hook.


My parents and grandparents were immigrants, so I know they're good for the country. What concerns me about these children is that they really need to be well taken care of, and foster care in this country is hardly the place for that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Acamar said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> However, the reason the conservatives feel the way they do is that they just don't have the compassion to care about these kids as fellow human beings. They don't care why these kids are being sent to the US.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Acamar said:


> Fair enough, but deporting them is not the answer either since these many of these children quite literally will qualify for asylum and are genuinely political refugees.
> 
> IMO, the conservatives just view these kids as diseased animals, not unlike how they view our POTUS.


It never occurred to me to deport them, at least before their families have been located and their living situation is known. It seems to me to be an unsolvable problem if this country is the only one trying to find a solution.

And it bothers me that it was kept a secret that these kids have been coming over for months.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert *** Satire alert 
JULY 14, 2014
*CHURCH FOUNDED IN SIXTH CENTURY HAS MORE MODERN VIEWS ON WOMEN THAN SCALIA*
POSTED BY ANDY BOROWITZ

LONDON (The Borowitz Report) - The Church of England, an institution whose origins date back to the sixth century A.D., has far more modern views about the rights of women than Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, experts said today.

In recognizing that women are the equals of men, the Church of England has embraced a position that is centuries ahead of Scalias, Davis Logsdon, a professor of religion at the University of Minnesota, said. This is a remarkable achievement, given that Scalia was born in 1936 and the Church began in the late five hundreds.

But Dr. Carol Foyler, a history professor at the University of Sussex, took issue with that assessment. I date the beginning of the Church of England to 1534, when it was officially established under Henry VIII, she said. But regardless of whether the Church is fourteen centuries old or five centuries old, its unquestionably more modern than Scalia.

As for Justice Scalia, he seemed to dismiss the controversy, issuing a terse official statement Monday afternoon. I do not keep up with the goings on of every newfangled institution, he said.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=760951620597838 Amazing video.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

More information on Central American refugee children
Pay close attention to the fith and sixth paragraphs.



U.S. foreign policy provoked immigration crisis
Héctor Perla Jr.
Updated 2:47 pm, Saturday, July 12, 2014 

Page 1 of 1
The flood of Central American child refugees arriving on our southern border is not just a humanitarian crisis, it is a man-made disaster. These children are not the problem, they are the "canary in the mine" pointing to a deeper problem confronting Washington. Finding ways to deport them more quickly is not a solution, it is political grandstanding while sweeping the real problems under the rug.

Although Democrats and Republicans alike claim to identify the cause of this mass exodus, neither party has sought to understand how U.S. foreign policy toward Central America provoked this catastrophe. Instead, focus has been solely on symptoms, such as gang or drug violence, grinding poverty, the temptation of a better life offered by human traffickers or the allure of legalization. The result? Nationally, we see this tragedy as an immigration problem, and internationally as a security problem. Both views lead to shortsighted policy prescriptions.

Domestically, President Obama has responded by requesting $3.7 billion to increase the children's detention and expedite their deportation. More troubling, he and Republicans want to roll back the 2008 Wilberforce Law (Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act) that guarantees children's due process rights to appear before an immigration judge with counsel to see if they qualify for asylum. 

Internationally, the administration has increased law enforcement aid through the Central America Regional Security Initiative, announced by Vice President Joe Biden on his recent visit, but has not promoted any economic restructuring. Additionally, the Obama administration has launched a public relations campaign designed to scare potential refugees from fleeing. One of the TV ads already saturating Guatemalan airwaves implores: "Please do not send your children and expose them to being raped, prostituted, kidnapped and in the worst cases killed!" - as if Central Americans don't know that undocumented migration to the United States is dangerous or haven't heard deported migrants' stories of discrimination, assault, rape, dismemberment and death, or as if they don't already have to endure these threats at home.

The root cause of this mass exodus is a pair of failed bipartisan U.S. policies toward Central America that separated these children from their families when it turned their parent's generation into internationally displaced people. The first is the U.S.-Central American Free Trade Agreement. CAFTA restructured trade relations with the region and gives unprecedented power to U.S. corporations. The net result has been the devastation of Central American economies, particularly agriculture. Family farmers' ability to make a living was destroyed by cheap, subsidized U.S. agribusiness exports to the region that rake in about $20 billion annually. Compare this with the relatively miserly sum of $245 million that the U.S. government has pledged in aid.

The secondary cause is Washington's hostility toward leftist Central American governments seeking to level the playing field in one of the most inequitable regions of the world. Most prominent is our government's failure to defend democracy in Honduras when that nation's president, Mel Zelaya, was ousted in a military coup in 2009. Since then, the mildly social democratic reforms that he had begun implementing have been rolled back. Today, Honduras has the dubious distinction of leading the region in the number of children fleeing their homeland.

In sharp contrast, Nicaragua, an equally poor country that receives far less U.S. aid because of our government's hostility toward the Sandinistas, sends far fewer children across the U.S. border. Why? Since coming back into power in 2006, the Sandinistas have enacted strong programs designed to allow the poor to become self-sufficient. Similar programs begun in 2009 by the Salvadoran government hold out hope for that nation.

Two policy shifts are required to solve this problem: First, change U.S. laws to acknowledge that Central Americans are refugees not immigrants - like we do for Cubans. This would legalize the migration process and eliminate the crisis. Second, restructure CAFTA to allow Central American governments to protect local businesses and stimulate domestic agricultural production even if U.S. corporate profits suffer. Until Central American nations are able to provide gainful employment for their citizens, people will be displaced from their homelands, disintegrating families, destroying civil society and perpetuating the perfect climate for drug trafficking, gangs and violence to flourish, all leading to a vicious cycle that's difficult to break.

The United States must actively support Central American governments whose top priorities are the economic and social well-being of their people so that they no longer have to leave. Failure to do so entails deliberate complicity in perpetuating this human disaster.


Héctor Perla Jr. is an assistant professor of Latin American and Latino Studies at UC Santa Cruz. To comment, submit your letter to the editor via our online form at


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
The US has a history of siding with the wrong entity in Central America. We need to take some responsibility here.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> The US has a history of siding with the wrong entity in Central America. We need to take some responsibility here.


We need to STOP f...ing in other countries political and economic issues simply because we do not like the, often, democratically elected left leaning governments.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> We need to STOP f...ing in other countries political and economic issues simply because we do not like the, often, democratically elected left leaning governments.


I don't think it's even a matter of not liking the elected governments. There's always a fascist of some sort waiting in the wings. When Allende was ousted (a CIA-backed coup), Chile got Pinochet instead, a truly evil man.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Loose what credibility?
> 
> Also there are gang members (MS13? not sure but it is the most violent one) tat are 16 and 17. They are considered minors in this country and violent and vicious killers in there own. So now we have even more gang members in our country.


I understand from a friend who has wider sources than mine that many of the boys are running from being forced to join gangs. In their home countries if they refuse an invitation to join a gang they are usually killed.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think it's even a matter of not liking the elected governments. There's always a fascist of some sort waiting in the wings. When Allende was ousted (a CIA-backed coup), Chile got Pinochet instead, a truly evil man.


There is a long and ugly history of U S ousting via CIA of democratically elected friegn governments and if we closely examine these ousting we find they are liberal to leftist governments that do not want U S corporate involvement in their countries. These policies are supported by both Dems and Repubs.

As a result, we have issues of immigration, terrorists, and hatered of the U S. Talk about causing our own problems and not dealing honestly with the consequences.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> There is a long and ugly history of U S ousting via CIA of democratically elected friegn governments and if we closely examine these ousting we find they are liberal to leftist governments that do not want U S corporate involvement in their countries. These policies are supported by both Dems and Repubs.
> 
> As a result, we have issues of immigration, terrorists, and hatered of the U S. Talk about causing our own problems and not dealing honestly with the consequences.


Yet the CIA failed notoriously in Cuba. Thank goddess for that.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I understand from a friend who has wider sources than mine that many of the boys are running from being forced to join gangs. In their home countries if they refuse an invitation to join a gang they are usually killed.


That was discusssed here in Canada on a discussion between one reporter who is very knowledgeable about the situations in south America and an American who is also knowledgeable, as well as a man from Uraquay - they said the older boys are running away from being forced into gangs, in many of the countries. He said the same thing as your friend.

I think we should avoid making statements about what we 
*think* is the reason and what we want it to be , and look into the whole situation and try to find the truth rather than jump to the conclusion that works best for our politcal beliefs. So many flat statements are made because they fit into the mindset of the person saying it., often no study has been really made to try to find out if it is true!


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

I would print out so many of the postings here about CAFTA and the situations in Central America but my printer is blinking. 

Wow to all the informative articles. Thank you all for posting them.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> When it comes to it, what should the governments of their home countries have done to provide a safe environment for their citizens? If all was well in the world order, which it is not, obviously, each nation would have in place Child Protective Services, assistance for the impoverished, and other social services common to civilized countries.
> 
> Perhaps I have watched too many episodes of the X Files and see conspiracies where they may or may not be, but it seems opportunistic and suspicious that these poor children, who are pawns in a dreadful situation, are being sent to the US enmasse. I highly doubt that a four year old or even a twelve year old would leave the only home they know by themselves and take a perilous trip to a strange destination. If they are so poor, who is paying their bus fare, buying their food for the trip, and otherwise financing this emigration?
> 
> ...


The difference between these immigrants and those today, the former expected nothing more than the opportunity to create a better life for themselves. They didn't expect a handout or to be taken care of by the government.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The difference between these immigrants and those today, the former expected nothing more than the opportunity to create a better life for themselves. They didn't expect a handout or to be taken care of by the government.


soloweygirl
so you have spoken with the immigrants of today or are you simply rejecting them because they are not white? By the way they are all supposed to be children of God, who are you to condemn them? You seem to have a direct line to HIM, ask HIM how he feels about your poor attitude.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The difference between these immigrants and those today, the former expected nothing more than the opportunity to create a better life for themselves. They didn't expect a handout or to be taken care of by the government.


I don't believe we can make a blanket statement about today's immigrants. My father was an immigrant, as were my mother's parents. There were feelings about immigrants in the "old days", too, but they persevered. I have to believe that today's immigrants want a chance to work and get ahead just like the immigrants of the past.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Baham said:


> I think she's "finding" these things at _"XenophobeConspriracyTheories.nut"_ as she typically does. I belive "lifenews" is a subsidiary of some kind.


Thank you for that important information.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The difference between these immigrants and those today, the former expected nothing more than the opportunity to create a better life for themselves. They didn't expect a handout or to be taken care of by the government.


Have you read anything about the causes of the refugee migration? I so want to think you and other anti immigration people have the ability for compassion, disernability, willingness to see how U S policies formed by both parties have created the situations that result in refugee migrations into the U S, but sometimes I dispair there is any connective tissue working in a logical manner in place of the continual sterotypical anti immegrant bias that feels and sounds like racism and xenophobia.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry--love your avatar. Exquisite work on your Barbie!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't believe we can make a blanket statement about today's immigrants. My father was an immigrant, as were my mother's parents. There were feelings about immigrants in the "old days", too, but they persevered. I have to believe that today's immigrants want a chance to work and get ahead just like the immigrants of the past.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

We are having much the same discussion here in Canada.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't believe we can make a blanket statement about today's immigrants. My father was an immigrant, as were my mother's parents. There were feelings about immigrants in the "old days", too, but they persevered. I have to believe that today's immigrants want a chance to work and get ahead just like the immigrants of the past.


That is the problem - the blanket statements and closed minds. They are people looking for a better life.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> so you have spoken with the immigrants of today or are you simply rejecting them because they are not white? By the way they are all supposed to be children of God, who are you to condemn them? You seem to have a direct line to HIM, ask HIM how he feels about your poor attitude.


 :thumbup:

I think the thing about Solo is her absolute knowledge that she knows all the answers, when no one does. She makes flat statements as if they are fact, when they are not facts that are proven. There are so many children- how can you say they are all there for the same exact reason and that is to take advantage or cause problems for the US. No sympathy for those children at all - sad-- It is the lack of compassion that is sad.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I understand from a friend who has wider sources than mine that many of the boys are running from being forced to join gangs. In their home countries if they refuse an invitation to join a gang they are usually killed.


Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think it's even a matter of not liking the elected governments. There's always a fascist of some sort waiting in the wings. When Allende was ousted (a CIA-backed coup), Chile got Pinochet instead, a truly evil man.


That is the point. America prefers to back fascist regimes as they will go along with protecting American assets while left-leaning regimes nationalize these assets.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> That is the point. America prefers to back fascist regimes as they will go along with protecting American assets while left-leaning regimes nationalize these assets.


 :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


And you know that to be true? How - or would you prefer to believe that. certainly there is a possibility that might be the case in some situations, but you state it as a fact for all of them - it is par for the course for you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> And you know that to be true? How - or would you prefer to believe that. certainly there is a possibility that might be the case in some situations, but you state it as a fact for all of them - it is par for the course for you.


It is so easy to make statements without facts.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Huckleberry--love your avatar. Exquisite work on your Barbie!


Frogging
Thank you very much. The prev. one was a Barbie, this one is a larger Doll and I made this outfit for myself as well except the Coat in Dark grey (mono-color) lined in black.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


lovethelake
who has proven that any of these individuals are Murderers? Calling them such comes from ugly Republicans who don't mind "marking" anyone they don't like. Have we not seen their ire against President Obama for years now and it started even before he set foot into the White House. Accusations totally unfounded are coming from many (not all) Republicans who are bigots and racists. Jesus was not white, wonder how they would treat him today.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


lovethelake
if gang members come here in this manner, they are the most stupid people on this Planet. Your Noggin needs treatment.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> We are having much the same discussion here in Canada.


And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


Yeah!!!!!
:thumbup: :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


You seem to think you know a lot for someone with absolutely no knowledge at all. Please tell us all where your information comes from. Not the guesswork, the information.

And while you're at it, tell us again about how the ACA is failing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> That is the point. America prefers to back fascist regimes as they will go along with protecting American assets while left-leaning regimes nationalize these assets.


You're right. It's obvious to everyone with open eyes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging
> Thank you very much. The prev. one was a Barbie, this one is a larger Doll and I made this outfit for myself as well except the Coat in Dark grey (mono-color) lined in black.


Amazing. I forget that we knit here on the political threads.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


Sounds as if you would like to export our bad actors to other countries. I am sure some of the kids coming here are not model citizens, but if life were good where they live they would want to stay there.

According to my reliable source, many of the young people headed here are fleeing a very dangerous life seeking a safer and more productive way to live. The issue is that we can't afford the social and educational services for the people already in this country much less immigrants because of the economic decline due to the exportation of jobs and the increasing gap between the haves and have nots. Jobs are going where the labor is cheap and the country is repressive which is not doing much good for workers in the countries losing jobs.

I don't have a glib answer for the problems of the world. Part of the issue is greed and a lack of compassion from the heirs of the old robber barons. When there is overwhelming hopelessness for a large part of the population, it sets the stage for anarchy and general crime. People who are productively employed don't have time to go out and commit crimes. It would take a combined effort from many parts of a country's leadership and cooperation between parties who do not fully agree with one another to effect a move in a more positive and productive direction. Our politicians from both sides seem more determined to "win" than to do much good for their constituencies. The ones who are sincere and try are shot down by the loud mouths who are heavily funded. If someone could come up with a workable social plan that would be accepted by conservatives and liberals they would deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


EveMCooke
you are a person with Heart - what a pleasure to have met you. Huck


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> who has proven that any of these individuals are Murderers? Calling them such comes from ugly Republicans who don't mind "marking" anyone they don't like. Have we not seen their ire against President Obama for years now and it started even before he set foot into the White House. Accusations totally unfounded are coming from many (not all) Republicans who are bigots and racists. Jesus was not white, wonder how they would treat him today.


Huck, it is truly not a joke, but in a discussion group some time ago we agreed that if the Messiah came and identified him (or her) self that person would end up in a mental ward chained to a bed and kept for observation at best or long term residence in the facility as a greater likelihood. We can only imagine the tweets that would be engendered.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Amazing. I forget that we knit here on the political threads.


SQM
sometimes we have more important things to get involved in than to knit. Knitting relaxes me and keeps me sane.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Huck, it is truly not a joke, but in a discussion group some time ago we agreed that if the Messiah came and identified him (or her) self that person would end up in a mental ward chained to a bed and kept for observation at best or long term residence in the facility as a greater likelihood. We can only imagine the tweets that would be engendered.


MarilynKnits
I am in agreement with you and your smart group. Just HIS looks alone would turn them against him and things would get worse if he showed up in a long Robe (dress), Sandals and long hair and most of all non-white complexion, which he of course had.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You seem to think you know a lot for someone with absolutely no knowledge at all. Please tell us all where your information comes from. Not the guesswork, the information.
> 
> And while you're at it, tell us again about how the ACA is failing.


Poor Purl
oh my, these folks are a rare bunch, aren't they. An hour ago I received Email from a hospital administrator who listed all of the expansions they are into to prepare for the increase in Patients due to ACA. No going back, the medical field is seeing the fruit of ACA and most of all eventually all People will have access to adequate care.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well guess he still needs to expand his sources. The point is that there are gang members that are murders, that are coming into our country to recruit members. The point is these 16 year old murders should not be treated as minors and let go to 'relatives'. But I guess having stronger and more vicious gangs in our country is okay with your view of inclusion and compassion. Wonder if they brought our guns back from the Fast and Furious fiasco? That would be nice of them.


What would Pope Francis say? Not this!!!

Here you go, LTL. Just for you to compare your views with the Pope's.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/pope-says-children-u-s-border-must-be-welcomed-protected-n156106


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Huckleberry--love your avatar. Exquisite work on your Barbie!


Frogging123
thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


Ooh, devine, Huck!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


Huck, she is magnificent.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, she is magnificent.


Poor Purl
Here are two Barbies ready to explore New Yrok.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

A news bite just posted this morning on the PC. I think it makes interesting reading.

MEXICO CITY (AP)  Mexico's top prosecutor says federal and state police officers have rescued 458 children who were forced to beg for money and suffered sexual abuse while being held against their will at a filthy group home in the western state of Michoacan.

Attorney General Jesus Murillo Karam says police also rescued 138 adults on Tuesday from the Great Family group home in the city of Zamora.

Murillo Karam says the group home residents were kept in deplorable conditions, fed rotten food and made to sleep on the floor among rats, ticks and fleas.

He says police have detained the group home's owner and eight workers for questioning.

The investigation began after five parents filed complaints with authorities because they weren't allowed to see their children at the home.

ps I note it is only ten minutes past the midnight in your neck of the woods, it is lunch time here, on Wednesday. Just had my lunchtime coffee.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


I am in my second childhood and would just love this doll, she is gorgeous.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am in my second childhood and would just love this doll, she is gorgeous.


EveMCooke
Thank you. I shall never grow out of loving Dolls and Teddy Bears. I much enjoy dressing them for all occasions. Underneath the Coat she is wearing a winter white Pant Outfit ready for skiing. By the way, some wise dame here said that I do not knit. Do they know ANYTHING? Jumpin Jehosifer, these folks are the dimmest of dumb.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Ooh, devine, Huck!


alcameron
Thank you. How are you coming on your fabulous creation? Your work is always so meticulous.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Here are two Barbies ready to explore New York.


Huck, they're stunning, but I would recommend not wearing white if they're planning to leave their hotel. Why do you think most New Yorkers wear dark colors?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, they're stunning, but I would recommend not wearing white if they're planning to leave their hotel. Why do you think most New Yorkers wear dark colors?


Poor Purl
got to change the face of New York, all the grey needs lightening up. Fabulous City to visit New York is. To Live, I take Paris.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> Thank you. I shall never grow out of loving Dolls and Teddy Bears. I much enjoy dressing them for all occasions. Underneath the Coat she is wearing a winter white Pant Outfit ready for skiing. By the way, some wise dame here said that I do not knit. Do they know ANYTHING? Jumpin Jehosifer, these folks are the dimmest of dumb.


I have over 200 teddy bears scattered all over the house, some only very tiny, a few inches tall, whilst others are the size of a small child. I only have about six dolls though. I told my son that I should downsize the teddies but he wants me to run them past him before I 'abandon them' as he call it. I have given several to the youngest granddaughter and the great grand children. I definitely am still a little girl at heart. I love both this doll and the other two Barbies you have posted.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have over 200 teddy bears scattered all over the house, some only very tiny, a few inches tall, whilst others are the size of a small child. I only have about six dolls though. I told my son that I should downsize the teddies but he wants me to run them past him before I 'abandon them' as he call it. I have given several to the youngest granddaughter and the great grand children. I definitely am still a little girl at heart. I love both this doll and the other two Barbies you have posted.


EveMCooke
Girl after my Heart you are. 200? well,I am limping far behind that number. I do however have a Life size Panda with two Cubs. All my Friends get new outfits for the Holidays and a prominent place in the house. We also have Tea Parties with them and some little Neighborhood Munchkins. The Kids and Friends get the Dining Room and their Parents have to place themselves where-ever. Got to have some innocent pleasure in Life, don't we.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> What would Pope Francis say? Not this!!!
> 
> Here you go, LTL. Just for you to compare your views with the Pope's.
> http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/pope-says-children-u-s-border-must-be-welcomed-protected-n156106


While I admire the humanitarian that the Pope is, it just bolsters my conviction that it is the American Church along with the military and labor that are supporting this Exodus. They all stand to gain by these kids and families coming here. No President can go against those forces.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I am in my second childhood and would just love this doll, she is gorgeous.


Heck with the dolls. Get Huck to make those designs for us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> While I admire the humanitarian that the Pope is, it just bolsters my conviction that it is the American Church along with the military and labor that are supporting this Exodus. They all stand to gain by these kids and families coming here. No President can go against those forces.


SQM
you may be on to something. Have to think this through.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Heck with the dolls. Get Huck to make those designs for us.


SQM
Wouldn't mind if I had the time. Am into something big right now and it is not knitting. Well, it is way past my bedtime. Good Night - good Morning for some of you - see you tomorrow (oops today), Huck


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> The US has a history of siding with the wrong entity in Central America. We need to take some responsibility here.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> We need to STOP f...ing in other countries political and economic issues simply because we do not like the, often, democratically elected left leaning governments.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good example.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't think it's even a matter of not liking the elected governments. There's always a fascist of some sort waiting in the wings. When Allende was ousted (a CIA-backed coup), Chile got Pinochet instead, a truly evil man.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> There is a long and ugly history of U S ousting via CIA of democratically elected friegn governments and if we closely examine these ousting we find they are liberal to leftist governments that do not want U S corporate involvement in their countries. These policies are supported by both Dems and Repubs.
> 
> As a result, we have issues of immigration, terrorists, and hatered of the U S. Talk about causing our own problems and not dealing honestly with the consequences.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> The difference between these immigrants and those today, the former expected nothing more than the opportunity to create a better life for themselves. They didn't expect a handout or to be taken care of by the government.


Like corporations?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I don't believe we can make a blanket statement about today's immigrants. My father was an immigrant, as were my mother's parents. There were feelings about immigrants in the "old days", too, but they persevered. I have to believe that today's immigrants want a chance to work and get ahead just like the immigrants of the past.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> who has proven that any of these individuals are Murderers? Calling them such comes from ugly Republicans who don't mind "marking" anyone they don't like. Have we not seen their ire against President Obama for years now and it started even before he set foot into the White House. Accusations totally unfounded are coming from many (not all) Republicans who are bigots and racists. Jesus was not white, wonder how they would treat him today.


Kick his can back to Nazareth?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knock noggin off the old block?



Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> if gang members come here in this manner, they are the most stupid people on this Planet. Your Noggin needs treatment.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel as though I have already received too much 'information' from ltl.



Poor Purl said:


> You seem to think you know a lot for someone with absolutely no knowledge at all. Please tell us all where your information comes from. Not the guesswork, the information.
> 
> And while you're at it, tell us again about how the ACA is failing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Reagan closed most mental health facilities. They are homeless on the streets scaring the bejesus out of RWN's.



MarilynKnits said:


> Huck, it is truly not a joke, but in a discussion group some time ago we agreed that if the Messiah came and identified him (or her) self that person would end up in a mental ward chained to a bed and kept for observation at best or long term residence in the facility as a greater likelihood. We can only imagine the tweets that would be engendered.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> sometimes we have more important things to get involved in than to knit. Knitting relaxes me and keeps me sane.


The rest are not sane.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely. Great work.



Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Black or charcoal pants suit would work well with the coat too. And dolls don't have to worry about dirt like we do.



Poor Purl said:


> Huck, they're stunning, but I would recommend not wearing white if they're planning to leave their hotel. Why do you think most New Yorkers wear dark colors?


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## littlebaba (Jul 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> Kick his can back to Nazareth?


I read a book as a teenager( don't ask me how long ago, very long) .its called "jessa" a fiction how people would react if the Nazarener would come back, but as a women. I still remember the book, so you can be sure it was one kind of a reading.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


She looks elegant, ready for her walk on the red carpet. The fun fur edging is a perfect touch.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


very very nice! YOU are very talented. did you say that you have an outfit like it. I really think it would be very smart.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> thought to let you see better what the outfit looks like.


Looks even better close up! Exquisite!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Goodmorning!

I am moving this post from NB to this thread as it might be taken as a political post (to me it isn't). I have written this in answer to PP's post (which is included);



Poor Purl said:


> It's about time for this to end. It must be quite a relief to both of you to know Pat doesn't need anything done. I wish the same for you.
> 
> It sounds as though Canada's second-rate :lol: healthcare system took good care of you.


It has for many years. Through 3 heart attacks, 3 bypasses, 2 stents, a pacemaker, a new mitral valve and an atrial valve as well as 45 days in a row in the hospital (and previous hospital stays over the years),4 mri's and so many other tests we cant count. It cost me parking. We pay l25. a month for Blue Cross (drugs, ambulance etc.)but hospital visits are covered by Government health care including drugs.

Regularly Alberta Blue cross is paid for by the 125.00 per month, which amount includes extra insurance - this covers 85% of drugs and all ambulance etc. (depending on what seniors' plan you choose.), except for some new specific drugs or procedures.

Our extra insurance covers 85% of the l5% we had to pay (not covered by Blue Cross). We have had so many tests since April 3, that I haven't counted them and none has cost us anything. Oh yes, we did had to buy the 'stuff' we had to drink before our colonoscopies!.

No one can ever tell me our health care program doesn't work. He would not be here without it and it is affordable. We pay Alberta (or each Province's) health care through our taxes.

I have had people tell me it is a bad plan. We are in a recession too and it is stretched to the limit. Physio therapy is not covered now (it was previously) for none surgical PT. There is talk of privatizing some of the surgeries if people choose to go that route. There are waits for some procedures which are not life threatening. However the longest wait we had was one month for any test or procedure this past while. I have to wait 3 weeks for results from my heart specialist, however if there were serious problems I would have heard immediately.

If Canadians need to go to a hospital in the States for special treatment our health care pays what it would pay here. However in certain unusual circumstances it will cover necessary surgery not available here.

I would be a widow without our Health Care.

Yet I have been told by some Americans that our health care is too expensive and is not something they want. I have also been told that I am not really telling the truth about the positives.

I answer -- the fact that Pat is still alive is positive enough for me. Pat is also covered for all his warfarin treatments as he has atrial fibulation. He has never had to pay a cent over and above our 125.00 per month plus our taxes. We, as seniors can also claim back any costs on our taxes if our income is low enough to warrant it. It is a good place to grow old. It breaks my heart when I hear people can't afford life saving drugs - there is a thread on the forum now that talks about that. I am thankful that ACA was passed, as you have to start somewhere.

I know some part, at least, of my Son's health care is covered by his company; I believe it is his drugs (which are usually covered by blue cross). I will verify that if I remember to ask him. We have been on the Government plan as long as we have needed health care and never have we paid out of pocket for hospital care or procedures, or specialists, non hospital procedures.

If ACA had failed I doubt any new Government would have even tried to bring in health care in the States considering how anti insurance the Republicans are and how they fight it tooth and nail. They seem to feel that as long as they are covered to 'he--' with those who can't afford it.

It will improve as they learn what needs to be done. To be absolutely honest- we don't step foot in the States. We would need to buy extra insurance and Pat's heart problems would not be covered, if we went down there we would be bankrupted if he got sick with anything to do with his heart. So, we stay here (quite happily, I might add).

NOTE: The above is my perception of our health care. I am not an expert aside from the fact that it has made life livable for us for all the years we have been on it, and the fact that Pat would not have survived his heart problems in l980 or since then without his surgeries and procedures.

PS: I know I have told this story of our personal health care both on the main forum and possibly here in the past.If so just ignore it but it is the truth about my experiences. You are welcome to pass it on if you feel it would help with the argument about Canadian health Care.

I get weary of people on the right saying we exagerate how good it is. It isn't perfect but it is very nice to have.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

EveMCooke wrote:
And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.


> I agree, in part with your posting. However, the problem is how people are entering our country. There is a distinction between an immigrant and a person who is entering the country illegally. There are processes in place, that people are 'supposed' to use, which is not happening with some at this time. We need to have compassion, warmth, and understanding, but on the flip side-- how much can we afford and when are laws going to be enforced? If something isn't done to stop illegal entry into this country, what will happen to the citizens who are here and here legally? I don't have a correct answer for this problem.
> 
> Currently, a friend of mine...has sister-in-law from Syria who has been trying to get into this country using proper channels. She has been waiting 12 years and still counting. What about her?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> EveMCooke wrote:
> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Goodmorning!
> 
> I am moving this post from NB to this thread as it might be taken as a political post (to me it isn't). I have written this in answer to PP's post (which is included);
> 
> ...


I have admired Canada's health care since a personal experience about 40 years ago. We came north and friends from Toledo came east and we camped together to visit Niagara Falls and other sights. Our friends had their four young children, including Thomas who was then an infant. He was a sickly baby, and our friend's doctor had no diagnosis of what was wrong or how to treat it. When we were on the Canadian side he started to have trouble breathing. We took him to the nearest hospital emergency care department where he was treated. The doctor there diagnosed the underlying cause of his respiratory illness, a bacterial infection he probably picked up at birth in the hospital, prescribed an effective antibiotic, and we have had a robustly healthy Thomas ever since. They accepted the family's health insurance and did not ask for another penny. The care was quick and superior.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

alcameron said:


> Compassion? Is that what those people yelling "go home" are exhibiting? We even have Christians yelling " Jesus wouldn't break the law." They aren't really acting like "illegal aliens." They aren't sneaking across the border. They're throwing themselves at our mercy. The Border Patrol officers are meeting these children with open arms. They're even changing diapers! This is a crisis of immense proportion and these children should be fed and clothed and given shelter until some decisions are made about their futures.


Yes...that isn't good. That's where the compassion should come in. I don't know that the Border Control is meeting them with open arms...I think they are doing what should be done with children-- treat them well and make sure they are okay. That's the sticky part of this whole thing: we need to do the right thing with those already here AND figure out how to stop people from coming into this country any way they want. They are here...we need to take of them, I am not disputing that at all.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I have admired Canada's health care since a personal experience about 40 years ago. We came north and friends from Toledo came east and we camped together to visit Niagara Falls and other sights. Our friends had their four young children, including Thomas who was then an infant. He was a sickly baby, and our friend's doctor had no diagnosis of what was wrong or how to treat it. When we were on the Canadian side he started to have trouble breathing. We took him to the nearest hospital emergency care department where he was treated. The doctor there diagnosed the underlying cause of his respiratory illness, a bacterial infection he probably picked up at birth in the hospital, prescribed an effective antibiotic, and we have had a robustly healthy Thomas ever since. They accepted the family's health insurance and did not ask for another penny. The care was quick and superior.


The reason I am a bit 'prickly' about our health care is the fact that I have read, on the main forum, and from a couple (only a couple) of people on the right here, that it isn't all that it is cut out to be - that there are problems with it (which certainly is true as we are in a recession here and costs are climbing). One has made the statement that she 'heard' people are dying because of lack of care, and that Canadians are heading to the States for health care because it is so bad here. So they imply it isn't worth it. Some wealthy Canadians do go south because they don't want to stand in line here - but if they are in a serious health situation they would be cared for immediately. T hat is a fact. Usually it is a procedure where the waits are long here.

I guess those who have money to pay huge premiums can have the freedom to choose, but the average American and certainly those who don't have a lot of money, can't afford good care.

Friends of mine on one of the groups on this forum, one, a widow with no pension or ability to pay for health care, cannot afford even basic drugs. As she has stated, she is one who falls through the cracks. She was married and raised her children, and didn't work very long, and has poor health and no training - she is in her 70's and is also a diabetic and has arthritis. She can't afford even basic drugs let alone the drugs she needs. She just received surgery, which she should have gotten ages ago. She says she feels much safer with the way things are set up now.

ACA is just starting - it will improve as it carries on. This is just my opinion. I don't see Canadians being left stranded. Even those on welfare are covered and I don't begrudge them as many are not dead beats - some are mentally challenged, some are poor through no fault of their own. Certainly some play the system. But what is the difference between those and the millionaires who 'play the system, only on the backs of the poor?

The reason I am hesitant to believe some of the posts from those on the left, is because of that absolute untruths I have read which are stated to be truth, about our Health Care system. They don't bother really checking.

They believe what they want to believe and post statements that they don't know to be true, and in some cases know to be untrue. I just don't buy what they post as truth most of the time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Kick his can back to Nazareth?


damemary
he would be accused of all sorts of things - never be called a Christian only a Jew for example.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

littlebaba said:


> I read a book as a teenager( don't ask me how long ago, very long) .its called "jessa" a fiction how people would react if the Nazarener would come back, but as a women. I still remember the book, so you can be sure it was one kind of a reading.


This sounds like a fun read.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> The reason I am a bit 'prickly' about our health care is the fact that I have read, on the main forum, and from a couple (only a couple) of people on the right here, that it isn't all that it is cut out to be - that there are problems with it (which certainly is true as we are in a recession here and costs are climbing). One has made the statement that she 'heard' people are dying because of lack of care, and that Canadians are heading to the States for health care because it is so bad here. So they imply it isn't worth it. Some wealthy Canadians do go south because they don't want to stand in line here - but if they are in a serious health situation they would be cared for immediately. T hat is a fact. Usually it is a procedure where the waits are long here.
> 
> I guess those who have money to pay huge premiums can have the freedom to choose, but the average American and certainly those who don't have a lot of money, can't afford good care.
> 
> ...


Designer1234
Handsome couple you make. Your kind responses to ugly lies are commendable. Let me say it loud and clear, your and many other Health Care systems are far superior to what we have had in the USA. Even 3rd World Countries have done much better than we have. No doubt we have all the skills to take care of whatever ails any person but treatment unfortunately has not been available to many among us. Thank goodness that is beginning to change because of ACA - Obamacare.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Yes...that isn't good. That's where the compassion should come in. I don't know that the Border Control is meeting them with open arms...I think they are doing what should be done with children-- treat them well and make sure they are okay. That's the sticky part of this whole thing: we need to do the right thing with those already here AND figure out how to stop people from coming into this country any way they want. They are here...we need to take of them, I am not disputing that at all.


Frogging123
why don't the Repuglicans get off their duffs and work on a respectable Immigration Policy? They don't want to improve things so it looks the problems are all President Obama's. Good try, but it isn't going to work in their favor. Wonder if Bachmann is going to foster some of these poor Kids now. May Heaven help them is any should be gay.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> very very nice! YOU are very talented. did you say that you have an outfit like it. I really think it would be very smart.


Designer1234
yes I made an outfit just like it for myself. The coat is a silver grey with black lining, it get lots of attention. The Hat has a suede lining for stability. Worn with high heeled black Boots, it does look elegant if I may say so.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> why don't the Repuglicans get off their duffs and work on a respectable Immigration Policy? They don't want to improve things so it looks the problems are all President Obama's. Good try, but it isn't going to work in their favor. Wonder if Bachmann is going to foster some of these poor Kids now. May Heaven help them is any should be gay.


Heaven knows! I guess because politicians don't ask and don't listen to what their constituents want. It's not just the Repubs, in my opinion. Most politicians are the same. The in-fighting needs to stop. It is a crisis, but it seems no one wants to stand up and do the right thing....which would be taking care of the people who are coming--making sure they have proper medical care, food, necessities, and help finding their family members. At the same time tackling the border.

You're right, it's not going to work in their favor and unfortunately in our favor, either.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> yes I made an outfit just like it for myself. The coat is a silver grey with black lining, it get lots of attention. The Hat has a suede lining for stability. Worn with high heeled black Boots, it does look elegant if I may say so.


Does sound elegant...you are talented.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Here we have it, another Liberal, Jesus.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Does sound elegant...you are talented.


Frogging123
give it a try, it isn't all that diffifcult to make an Outfit like this one.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Heaven knows! I guess because politicians don't ask and don't listen to what their constituents want. It's not just the Repubs, in my opinion. Most politicians are the same. The in-fighting needs to stop. It is a crisis, but it seems no one wants to stand up and do the right thing....which would be taking care of the people who are coming--making sure they have proper medical care, food, necessities, and help finding their family members. At the same time tackling the border.
> 
> You're right, it's not going to work in their favor and unfortunately in our favor, either.


Frogging123
I am not happy about any invasion of our country but when children are begging for a good home, we need to listen and also think of the millions who remain in countries of corruption and lawlessness. Our focus needs to be on diplomatic solutions rather than Wars. Cheney is still trying to convince us that invading Iraq was a good thing. Honestly? Did his Heart come from Satan?


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> give it a try, it isn't all that diffifcult to make an Outfit like this one.


Hmmm...I may have to. Totally out of my comfort zone. Do you have a link to a pattern?


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> Our focus needs to be on diplomatic solutions rather than Wars.


It may not seem like it, but you are preaching to the choir on this one.


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## ALdaisy (May 1, 2013)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Hmmm...I may have to. Totally out of my comfort zone. Do you have a link to a pattern?


Frogging123
unfortunately I do not use regular patterns, I use sewing patterns and knit according to shape by hand or for machine knitting, use a Knitleader and copy sewing patterns onto the Mylar sheet. I would like to knit a Coat like that in double knit BUT that takes longer than I may have patience for. May start with a hat and see if I want to go further.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> It may not seem like it, but you are preaching to the choir on this one.


Frogging123
I shall never give up on that. Some day, some-one will put all efforts into that. You bet I am an Optimist.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for your honest perception of Canada's Health Care System. When your life or the life of a loved one is at a stake, I would think that good care at a cost not destined to bankrupt the family would be desired by everyone. That's the way I feel.



Designer1234 said:


> Goodmorning!
> 
> I am moving this post from NB to this thread as it might be taken as a political post (to me it isn't). I have written this in answer to PP's post (which is included);
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> he would be accused of all sorts of things - never be called a Christian only a Jew for example.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Handsome couple you make. Your kind responses to ugly lies are commendable. Let me say it loud and clear, your and many other Health Care systems are far superior to what we have had in the USA. Even 3rd World Countries have done much better than we have. No doubt we have all the skills to take care of whatever ails any person but treatment unfortunately has not been available to many among us. Thank goodness that is beginning to change because of ACA - Obamacare.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> EveMCooke wrote:
> And in Australia also. I find that a lot of people who condemn the refugees or asylum seekers have never spoken to a refugee or asylum seeker. Some have said that they would not speak to them. I was called a 'bleeding heart liberal' and a 'soft touch' by a fellow Australian here on KP some time ago because I spoke up for those who are seeking asylum in Australia. I do not mind, you can call me all the names you like but I will not change my mind. I wil shout it from the rooftops if necessary. Refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants have all helped make Australia the great multi cultural nation it is today. All I ask is that people have compassion, warmth and understanding.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Here we have it, another Liberal, Jesus.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Handsome couple you make. Your kind responses to ugly lies are commendable. Let me say it loud and clear, your and many other Health Care systems are far superior to what we have had in the USA. Even 3rd World Countries have done much better than we have. No doubt we have all the skills to take care of whatever ails any person but treatment unfortunately has not been available to many among us. Thank goodness that is beginning to change because of ACA - Obamacare.


The sad thing to me is that you have the most wonderful Hospitals, and advanced care facilities. Most of our specialists train in the States because they are so highly thought of. Yet your people are suffering because of the drug companies and the Health Care companies who put a high profit before people.

They are also suffering because of the opinions of the Conservatives, that those who are needy are dead beats and don't deserve good care, and, because'"they have worked hard all their lives and have been able to afford good health care"",it means that those who don't, deserve poorer treatment and in some cases deserve to be ignored and and to be unable to pay for their required medicines or other health care necessities.

It doesn't make any sense to me. There are people in the US who are dying without proper medications and care.

Just as Pat would have died or we would have been bankrupt in the 80's when he had his first heart attack. We certainly would NEVER have been able to pay the costs of his care 3 years ago.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> he would be accused of all sorts of things - never be called a Christian only a Jew for example.


Just the long hair and beard would set some of them off. Hippie? Weirdo? Some of the comments make me think of the folks sitting in the tiers at the Colosseum cheering on the lions. And I don't mean Detroit!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thank you for your honest perception of Canada's Health Care System. When your life or the life of a loved one is at a stake, I would think that good care at a cost not destined to bankrupt the family would be desired by everyone. That's the way I feel.


Kudos for another wise comment.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> The sad thing to me is that you have the most wonderful Hospitals, and advanced care facilities. Most of our specialists train in the States because they are so highly thought of. Yet your people are suffering because of the drug companies and the Health Care companies who put a high profit before people.
> 
> They are also suffering because of the opinions of the Conservatives, that those who are needy are dead beats and don't deserve good care, and, because'"they have worked hard all their lives and have been able to afford good health care"",it means that those who don't, deserve poorer treatment and in some cases deserve to be ignored and and to be unable to pay for their required medicines or other health care necessities.
> 
> ...


The pharmaceutical companies try to convince us that the reason for the high cost of medications is all the research involved. I am sure they subsidize research in hospitals, but the rest of the story:

My husband's niece lives with a man who is a "detail man" for a major pharma. He travels a territory bringing samples to doctors' offices and pushing his company's meds for them to prescribe. This fellow is very well to do. He has a generous expense account. There are hundreds like him all over the country working for all the major pharmaceutical companies. What these salespeople cost is, I am sure, a major factor driving up the costs. And his pay is probably peanuts to what the company executives take home.

Our doctor gives us samples when he prescribes a new med. We are fortunate to have insurance with an affordable copay. A prescription I take daily costs me $10 for a 30 day supply, basically $120 a year. The notice on the pharmacy bill says the retail price is $193.99 for the 30 pills. That is $2,327.88 a year or about 2 months social security for many people. More for many others. That is obscene.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Black or charcoal pants suit would work well with the coat too. And dolls don't have to worry about dirt like we do.


damemary
agree with the dark pants suit.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Here we have it, another Liberal, Jesus.


That represents what I believe. Not that 'He" would turn away the children.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma
Planned Parenthood sends their THANK YOU. We will donate as long as you post.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> Planned Parenthood sends their THANK YOU. We will donate as long as you post.


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Ditto! Not sure how to add things correctly, you get the idea, I am sure.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I hope you like saying bye - bye to your money!


With our Repub gov freezing State retiree pensions and delaying senior home rebates, then not raising taxes for the super rich so our property tax goes up and up, we don't have any money left to wave bye bye to.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This was just for the few that were going to donate to Planned Parenthood Huckleberry and Poor purl and maybe others.


For good causes like PP I manage to find some money. Them, Susan B. Komen, Deborah Heart and Lung Center - groups that help preserve the lives of existing people. You fill so much space with so many words sometimes it is impossible to figure where your references stem from.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> I am not happy about any invasion of our country but when children are begging for a good home, we need to listen and also think of the millions who remain in countries of corruption and lawlessness. Our focus needs to be on diplomatic solutions rather than Wars. Cheney is still trying to convince us that invading Iraq was a good thing. Honestly? Did his Heart come from Satan?


How many of these children will YOU be taking in?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Ditto! Not sure how to add things correctly, you get the idea, I am sure.


Poor Purl
Frogging123
love your cute applause, need to learn to post funnies. You are so good at it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma
I am having a monster Sale and every penny goes to Planned Parenthood and NARAL. Everything I am selling is new and should bring good money.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How many of these children will YOU be taking in?


Knitter from Nebraska
NONE but I contribute in some very valuable way. Am taking care of someone with a compromised Immune System and our home is kept rather sterile. Would love to have children filling the rooms, plenty empty ones, it will happen again some day.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I hope you like saying bye - bye to your money!


joeysomma
giving has never been a problem for us, we enjoy sharing and rather then putting it onto a Church Collection Plate, we give to those who do the most with it and pitch in at Habitat for Humanity with some sweat and elbow grease.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This was just for the few that were going to donate to Planned Parenthood Huckleberry and Poor purl and maybe others.


Really? Where did you learn I was donating to PP?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm sorry, I though you were since you were agreeing with huckleberry. You are smart to not condone the murderous activities of Planned Parenthood.


I not only condone all activities of Planned Parenthood; I support them. I haven't posted the charities I donate to, so I wondered why you named me. You're going to have to stop assuming things.

You are also going to have to stop forcing your beliefs on other people. According to my religion, abortion is not murder. According to US law, abortion is not murder. You can take your assumptions and stuff them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am forcing no one. Free Speech! And I will continue my Free Speech as long as I can breathe. The murdered children have no voice unless people like me talk for them.


Actually, Joey, I admire your strength and perseverance. When you believe in something strongly, go for it. I'm sure by now you realize that many people are tired of the abortion stories.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Allen West: "I am astounded by the immoral hypocrisy of the Democrats. They demand compassion for the illegal immigrants but are utterly devoid of it for unborn Americans."


And the only compassion he feels may be for the unborn. I find him bigoted and full of hate.
Talk about hypocrisy!
Also, there are plenty of Democrats who are anti-abortion. And he's calling all Democrats immoral?? Tell me you don't believe that. Remember it's the repubs in this country who are always opposed to social programs of any kind!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since I am free to post the articles, you are free to not read.


Gee whiz, can't you acknowledge that I paid you a compliment? I don't deny you the right to post. Post away!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> He gave a general statement and then you call him bigoted. Your last sentence is just as bigoted as his is since you said the repubs are "always."


Yes, he made a broad statement calling Democrats immoral, so I purposely used "always" to correspond to his generalization.
I have heard enough out of him to call him bigoted and I stand by what I said.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> He gave a general statement and then you call him bigoted. Your last sentence is just as bigoted as his is since you said the repubs are "always."


Well, he actually IS a bigot. Is one of the biggest Islamophobes in the US.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> He gave a general statement and then you call him bigoted. Your last sentence is just as bigoted as his is since you said the repubs are "always."


This is your idea of a general statement? "I am astounded by the immoral hypocrisy of the Democrats. They demand compassion for the illegal immigrants but are utterly devoid of it for unborn Americans." It's a very particular statement, and is certainly bigoted.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Allen West: "I am astounded by the immoral hypocrisy of the Democrats. They demand compassion for the illegal immigrants but are utterly devoid of it for unborn Americans."


joeysomma
Oh Allen West, the Man with a very checkered past.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Since I am free to post the articles, you are free to not read.[/quote and quote again
> 
> joeysomma
> my oh my the company you keep is very questionable. Show me who is your friend and I show you who you are. A.West is a Bigot, that says enough.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> Oh Allen West, the Man with a very checkered past.


And possibly certifiable, Huck. He has said and done some very, very "eccentric" (i.e., lunatic) things.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> Planned Parenthood sends their THANK YOU. We will donate as long as you post.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why did these people go on working for the doctor for years after seeing these actions and hearing his 'funny' comments? Why not go to the police right away?



joeysomma said:


> Abortionist Slit Necks of Born Babies in Front of Teenager; Told Assistant: 'That's What You Call a Chicken With Its Head Cut Off'...
> 
> (CNS News)
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Add lobbyists, reseachers, experts to testify in court etc.



MarilynKnits said:


> The pharmaceutical companies try to convince us that the reason for the high cost of medications is all the research involved. I am sure they subsidize research in hospitals, but the rest of the story:
> 
> My husband's niece lives with a man who is a "detail man" for a major pharma. He travels a territory bringing samples to doctors' offices and pushing his company's meds for them to prescribe. This fellow is very well to do. He has a generous expense account. There are hundreds like him all over the country working for all the major pharmaceutical companies. What these salespeople cost is, I am sure, a major factor driving up the costs. And his pay is probably peanuts to what the company executives take home.
> 
> Our doctor gives us samples when he prescribes a new med. We are fortunate to have insurance with an affordable copay. A prescription I take daily costs me $10 for a 30 day supply, basically $120 a year. The notice on the pharmacy bill says the retail price is $193.99 for the 30 pills. That is $2,327.88 a year or about 2 months social security for many people. More for many others. That is obscene.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Always ready to spend money for a good cause.



joeysomma said:


> I hope you like saying bye - bye to your money!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have found that Susan B. Komen is not the charity I thought it was.



MarilynKnits said:


> For good causes like PP I manage to find some money. Them, Susan B. Komen, Deborah Heart and Lung Center - groups that help preserve the lives of existing people. You fill so much space with so many words sometimes it is impossible to figure where your references stem from.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet it will be spectacular. Bravo!



Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> I am having a monster Sale and every penny goes to Planned Parenthood and NARAL. Everything I am selling is new and should bring good money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Why did these people go on working for the doctor for years after seeing these actions and hearing his 'funny' comments? Why not go to the police right away?


So that the anti-choice people would have long, long things for Joey to post.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have found that Susan B. Komen is not the charity I thought it was.


After they dropped PP (before picking it up again not long after), a lot came out about how they spend their money. Not very charitably.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have found that Susan B. Komen is not the charity I thought it was.


I think they're trying to make amends, but I don't give to them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I have found that Susan B. Komen is not the charity I thought it was.


damemary
sad but true and we no longer contribute to this one. Glad to say that there are plenty of decent organizations to support.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since I am free to post the articles, you are free to not read.


As if we need your permission to exercise our freedom.

Keep wasting your efforts. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> As if we need your permission to exercise our freedom.
> 
> Keep wasting your efforts. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)


MarilynKnits
I actually like for her to keep posting, it reminds those who support Choice, that we need to look out for those who want to restrict it. Glorious Freedom of Choice, never to be taken away.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> As if we need your permission to exercise our freedom.
> 
> Keep wasting your efforts. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)


MarilynKnits 
How would someone not sane know they are not sane? Don't they always think everybody-else is nuts?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> As if we need your permission to exercise our freedom.
> 
> Keep wasting your efforts. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Wouldn't you think she'd run out of steam? Nope. I think I can.........


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> How would someone not sane know they are not sane? Don't they always think everybody-else is nuts?


Ask joey and the rest. They are the nutty authorities.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Allen West: "I am astounded by the immoral hypocrisy of the Democrats. They demand compassion for the illegal immigrants but are utterly devoid of it for unborn Americans."


Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.

Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.
> 
> Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


Do you have information that the rest of the world does not have? You have made a statement "_ Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles_" but so far it has not been confirmed that it was Russian missiles, nor has it been confirmed that Americans were on board. I know there are 50 passengers whose identities have not been confirmed, so I ask again, do you have information that the rest of the world does not have or are you just making statements of the top of your head. Below is the official release, you may not have read it.

_Amsterdam Airport said the passenger list also included 143 Dutch citizens, 20 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, six from the UK, four from Germany, four from Belgium, three from the Philippines and one from Canada, along with about 50 unidentified passengers.
Dutch authorities say there were 27 Australians but the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has so far only confirmed there were at least 23._

You will note the number of Australians who were on board. I think you are trying to twist this tragic accident into another rant against your President, shame on you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Do you have information that the rest of the world does not have? You have made a statement "_ Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles_" but so far it has not been confirmed that it was Russian missiles, nor has it been confirmed that Americans were on board. I know there are 50 passengers whose identities have not been confirmed, so I ask again, do you have information that the rest of the world does not have or are you just making statements of the top of your head. Below is the official release, you may not have read it.
> 
> _Amsterdam Airport said the passenger list also included 143 Dutch citizens, 20 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, six from the UK, four from Germany, four from Belgium, three from the Philippines and one from Canada, along with about 50 unidentified passengers.
> Dutch authorities say there were 27 Australians but the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has so far only confirmed there were at least 23._
> ...


Thank you for catching that. Truth doesn't matter to some people as long as they can get in a dig to Obama.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.
> 
> Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


OMG!!!
You are shameless, pathetic, and totally out of step with your pope. In fact, if Pope Francis read your posts you'd probably be excommunicated on the spot!
How can anyone with a brain think Allen West is a mensch? He's a total bigot, and if you can't even recognize that, you're farther gone than I thought.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for catching that. Truth doesn't matter to some people as long as they can get in a dig to Obama.


Hi, menschette. I just had a minute to peruse here and there, and I must go find dinner.
Hi, Eve.
And bye already.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.
> 
> Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


I am not going to read any more of your nasty, untruthfjul posts. YOu make up stories -- you have no idea. He has been on the phone with Putin, he as been on the phone with the president ofthe Netherlands where the plane started its flight, the president of Malaysia, talking to the head of the UN, that is just a start. You ignore all of that and on top of that you imply that he is not even interested in the world falling apart, Oh and he is also is putting more sanctions on Russia. that is since this morning. You don't tell the truth! I don't believe any of your posts as you are so blinded by your dislike that you would rather tell your friends on D and P the same untruths as you did here. They will agree with every bit of it even though 95% of what you say is not truth.

I didn't see it by my husband came in and said he had also been talking to Isreali Government officials (top people) about the attacks. This information has been well publicized here in Canada. Do you watch your news???? or might you find that you are spreading lies and gossip? But that is par for the course on your thread. At a time when you yourself say you are worried about a WW , instead of working with your Government you use it as a weapon against your duly elected President. You and your friends are really something.

It amazes me that you can look in the mirror. It is interesting that Candians know more about what is truly happening the a goodly portion of the Conservatives of your country. I have been watching the news all day and so has my husband. Obama had to be careful what he said this morning when the news of the air disaster first happened, as the information as to whether it was a terrorist attack had not been confirmed. He WASN'T golfing which seems to be what you always accuse him of. Bush didn't Golf? Other Presidents didn't golf often? They were not ridiculed for it , often people they wish to have talks with, were invited to join them. Many many Presidents -- it is only Obama who is not allowed to golf without being attacked by the haters.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you really listened to the news. Obama made the phone calls *after* he attended the fundraisers. Bush did not golf after 9/11.


I am surprised you agreed he did make the phone calls. I don't know what time he made them except that it was announced this morning. I never heard anything about fundraisers. I guess the news that goes to other countries only gives the important information. Bush was teaching kindergarden children reading a story, just as 9/11 was happening, was he attacked for that? Doesn't work both ways, does it.

Did Bush not attend fundraisers? it happened after The President attended a fundraiser for the Democrats although I got that info from you - it wasn't important enough to go on the international news. hmm none of the Republican Presidents have done that? Oh yes even the Republicans didn't want Bush to attend fund raisers, as he did such a dreadful job as President. That is well known as he wasn't even at the Republican Convention, but he never was attacked like you all attack Obama.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I was wrong. Obama must have made the phone calls while he was traveling from one fund raiser to another. I guess he had a few minutes to spare between them. Must not let the security of the country get in the way of fundraising
> 
> Obama Proves Again that Fundraising Trumps National Security
> 
> ...


you are really something.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> you are really something.


Well, actually, she is nothing.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am not going to read any more of your nasty, untruthfjul posts. YOu make up stories -- you have no idea. He has been on the phone with Putin, he as been on the phone with the president ofthe Netherlands where the plane started its flight, the president of Malaysia, talking to the head of the UN, that is just a start. You ignore all of that and on top of that you imply that he is not even interested in the world falling apart, Oh and he is also is putting more sanctions on Russia. that is since this morning. You don't tell the truth! I don't believe any of your posts as you are so blinded by your dislike that you would rather tell your friends on D and P the same untruths as you did here. They will agree with every bit of it even though 95% of what you say is not truth.
> 
> I didn't see it by my husband came in and said he had also been talking to Isreali Government officials (top people) about the attacks. This information has been well publicized here in Canada. Do you watch your news???? or might you find that you are spreading lies and gossip? But that is par for the course on your thread. At a time when you yourself say you are worried about a WW , instead of working with your Government you use it as a weapon against your duly elected President. You and your friends are really something.
> 
> It amazes me that you can look in the mirror. It is interesting that Candians know more about what is truly happening the a goodly portion of the Conservatives of your country. I have been watching the news all day and so has my husband. Obama had to be careful what he said this morning when the news of the air disaster first happened, as the information as to whether it was a terrorist attack had not been confirmed. He WASN'T golfing which seems to be what you always accuse him of. Bush didn't Golf? Other Presidents didn't golf often? They were not ridiculed for it , often people they wish to have talks with, were invited to join them. Many many Presidents -- it is only Obama who is not allowed to golf without being attacked by the haters.


Designer1234
you are so right, Canadians and other Foreigners are much more versed in what is going on here and elsewhere than folks like Lovethelake, Joeysomma etc. Presidents golfing goes back to Eisenhower, President Obama does it sparingly compared to his predecessor G.W. Bush for example. Oh well, if President Obama would care for ailing Parents, he would be accused of mistreating them. We consider the source and the source is unimportant. Never hear anyone complaining about Boehner doing nothing but golfing and drinking, his deep tan and slurred speech, which is getting worse, confirm his activities which is not working for what we pay him.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am surprised you agreed he did make the phone calls. I don't know what time he made them except that it was announced this morning. I never heard anything about fundraisers. I guess the news that goes to other countries only gives the important information. Bush was teaching kindergarden children reading a story, just as 9/11 was happening, was he attacked for that? Doesn't work both ways, does it.
> 
> Did Bush not attend fundraisers? it happened after The President attended a fundraiser for the Democrats although I got that info from you - it wasn't important enough to go on the international news. hmm none of the Republican Presidents have done that? Oh yes even the Republicans didn't want Bush to attend fund raisers, as he did such a dreadful job as President. That is well known as he wasn't even at the Republican Convention, but he never was attacked like you all attack Obama.


Designer1234
Bush had his hands in starting bloody Wars and killing over 150THOUSAND of other Nations and over 4.500 of our Soldiers and for what? To keep us safe? Not so, it was for Oil. And Cheney is still bragging about it. It shows that many Republicans have no shame, no decency, no Heart no Morals and are being eaten up by Power and Greed. We are thankful that President Obama would never sacrifice people for personal gains. No doubt, the choice we made to vote him into Office twice, was a valuable one. And all that Bush is guilty of, he never was called on the carpet for it - wonder why? I retract my question, I know, because he is white.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 Why don't you just admit lovethelake was telling the truth and you were wrong?


joeysomma
keep looking dumb. Designer however is well informed and correct.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is how Planned Parenthood uses our tax dollars for sex-ed for teenagers. How sick!
> 
> Planned Parenthood Suggests Teen Girl Poop on Her Partner for Sexual Exploration


You'll believe anything, won't you?


----------



## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I am not going to read any more of your nasty, untruthfjul posts. YOu make up stories -- you have no idea. He has been on the phone with Putin, he as been on the phone with the president ofthe Netherlands where the plane started its flight, the president of Malaysia, talking to the head of the UN, that is just a start. You ignore all of that and on top of that you imply that he is not even interested in the world falling apart, Oh and he is also is putting more sanctions on Russia. that is since this morning. You don't tell the truth! I don't believe any of your posts as you are so blinded by your dislike that you would rather tell your friends on D and P the same untruths as you did here. They will agree with every bit of it even though 95% of what you say is not truth.
> 
> I didn't see it by my husband came in and said he had also been talking to Isreali Government officials (top people) about the attacks. This information has been well publicized here in Canada. Do you watch your news???? or might you find that you are spreading lies and gossip? But that is par for the course on your thread. At a time when you yourself say you are worried about a WW , instead of working with your Government you use it as a weapon against your duly elected President. You and your friends are really something.
> 
> It amazes me that you can look in the mirror. It is interesting that Candians know more about what is truly happening the a goodly portion of the Conservatives of your country. I have been watching the news all day and so has my husband. Obama had to be careful what he said this morning when the news of the air disaster first happened, as the information as to whether it was a terrorist attack had not been confirmed. He WASN'T golfing which seems to be what you always accuse him of. Bush didn't Golf? Other Presidents didn't golf often? They were not ridiculed for it , often people they wish to have talks with, were invited to join them. Many many Presidents -- it is only Obama who is not allowed to golf without being attacked by the haters.


Actually, according to NBC news, he was on a phone call with Putin. However, this was a prearranged phone call that was scheduled before this tragedy. They stated he was attending two fund raisers. I am unsure whether he attended both fund raisers for the full time, but he was in attendance. I don't think he wad golfing.

It was disappointing that he spoke for 38 seconds after the crash...he should have shown some conviction that we would get to the bottom of it instead of just saying "it's a terrible tragedy".


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma
we know, the fundraisers are getting your gall because they are cutting into the activities of the GOP. It is people like you who have made many of us become quite active politically and entice us again and again to contribute as much as we possibly can. We are more alert now than ever. We are united. Too bad that the Tea Party has wrecked a once decent GOP and is making you so angry. Sorry, you will have to deal with this stuff for some time to come. It is tough to treat stupid, actually impossible.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Actually, according to NBC news, he was on a phone call with Putin. However, this was a prearranged phone call that was scheduled before this tragedy. They stated he was attending two fund raisers. I am unsure whether he attended both fund raisers for the full time, but he was in attendance. I don't think he wad golfing.
> 
> It was disappointing that he spoke for 38 seconds after the crash...he should have shown some conviction that we would get to the bottom of it instead of just saying "it's a terrible tragedy".


Frogging123
no doubt, President Obama will lend support to Malaysia. Why is it first and foremost our job to investigate? Are we responsible for the whole World? Wonder how you would feel if other Nations would always have their noses in our business? We will be plenty involved and I do not want my President to jump the gun on anything. No-body knows anything so far and to spekulate is irresponsible. President Obama did exactly what a real Statesman is expected to do.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma
not only Planned Parenthood, the Organization who takes care of Women's many medical needs exemplary, but also the Post Office thanks you for your postings. My donations are moving about quite well.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.
> 
> Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


lovethelake
for your information, the White House is where-ever the President is. Need to get into the 21st Century. "Crisis' that can sart WWIII"? Are you on an other Planet?


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> no doubt, President Obama will lend support to Malaysia. Why is it first and foremost our job to investigate? Are we responsible for the whole World? Wonder how you would feel if other Nations would always have their noses in our business? We will be plenty involved and I do not want my President to jump the gun on anything. No-body knows anything so far and to spekulate is irresponsible. President Obama did exactly what a real Statesman is expected to do.


There is nothing wrong with saying we want to find out what happened. I didn't say he should call it anything different than what he called it. I didn't say anything about speculating or jumping the gun...there are almost 300 people who have died. If i was a loved one of someone who died, I would want someone looking out for me and to offer assistance in finding out what happened.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I was wrong. Obama must have made the phone calls while he was traveling from one fund raiser to another. I guess he had a few minutes to spare between them. Must not let the security of the country get in the way of fundraising


If you want to be petty about things (and probably untruthful as well), we can talk about how Bush tried hard to ignore Katrina, went to some politician's birthday party, and did a flyover, then left it in the hands of Heckuva-job Brownie.

As for golf, here's a 17-second video that shows how seriously Bush took his job.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have lived for 73 years and have known people from all walks of life, different parts of the world, and different social circles but I have never known people like Joey and LTL until I landed on KP chit-chat threads. I'm glad I don't know them in "real life." Their profession of Christianity is a phony cover for what they really are--blinded by hatred, brain-washed by the radical right-wing press (to which they cling steadfastly), and oblivious to the truth. To think that they are representative of who's teaching our kids and filling the pews on Sundays makes me despair. I guess I was naive (and really lucky) but I never really believed there were people quite like this. I always think I've heard the worst from them and then they surprise me with a post even more dreadful than the one before. Hopeless and pathetic. I won't even say how I really feel.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well, actually, she is nothing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 Why don't you just admit lovethelake was telling the truth and you were wrong?


If Designer admitted that, she'd be lying. LTL obviously picked up her information from one of those sites you guys like to use that have nothing to do with the truth.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> There is nothing wrong with saying we want to find out what happened. I didn't say he should call it anything different than what he called it. I didn't say anything about speculating or jumping the gun...there are almost 300 people who have died. If i was a loved one of someone who died, I would want someone looking out for me and to offer assistance in finding out what happened.


World leaders are taking steps to find out what happened.

"_US Vice President Joe Biden says the incident wasn't an accident and the plane was "blown out of the sky".
UN chief Ban Ki-moon echoed calls for a full investigation.
NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said those guilty of bringing down the airliner must be brought to justice.

Australia is demanding a full international investigation into the attack on a Malaysia Airlines flight in Ukraine that has killed almost 300 people, including 27 Australians.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott says Australia is pushing in the United Nations Security Council for a binding resolution to establish a full and impartial investigation into the suspected surface-to-air missile attack on MH17.
Investigators should have full access to the site, debris, black box and anyone who may be able to shed light on the terrible event, he said.
Coming from an emergency meeting of the government's powerful national security committee of cabinet, Mr Abbott told parliament it appeared Russian-backed rebels were responsible for the attack.
"As things stand this looks less like an accident than a crime," he said.
If that was the case, the perpetrators must be brought to justice.
"We owe it to the dead and their families, we owe it to the peace and stability of the wider world to establish the facts and we will do all we humanly can to bring that about."
Foreign Minister Julie Bishop will summon Russia's ambassador to Australia to get assurances that Vladimir Putin's government will fully cooperate with an investigation.
A Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade team is preparing to leave for the Ukrainian capital, Kiev.
The flight was ultimately bound for Australia, which explains why so many Australians were onboard._

But I think questions should also be raised as to why Malaysian Airways was flying over a war zone. Other airlines had taken steps to avoid this area.

"_Malaysian Airline System Bhd. (MAS), whose plane carrying 298 passengers was shot down over eastern Ukraine, took a route thatQantas (QAN) Airways Ltd. and several other carriers avoided.
Qantas hasnt been using that route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. (293) said it hasnt been flying over the area for quite some time. Singapore Airlines Ltd. said its no longer using Ukrainian airspace._"


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

deleted by poster as it was a double post.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have lived for 73 years and have known people from all walks of life, different parts of the world, and different social circles but I have never known people like Joey and LTL until I landed on KP chit-chat threads. I'm glad I don't know them in "real life." Their profession of Christianity is a phony cover for what they really are--blinded by hatred, brain-washed by the radical right-wing press (to which they cling steadfastly), and oblivious to the truth. To think that they are representative of who's teaching our kids and filling the pews on Sundays makes me despair. I guess I was naive (and really lucky) but I never really believed there were people quite like this. I always think I've heard the worst from them and then they surprise me with a post even more dreadful than the one before. Hopeless and pathetic. I won't even say how I really feel.


Thank you for putting this into words. I, too, have never met people who speak like them, even though some of my best friends are Republicans. But the ones like joeysomma and LTL - they're shameless.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for putting this into words. I, too, have never met people who speak like them, even though some of my best friends are Republicans. But the ones like joeysomma and LTL - they're shameless.


Yes, I know lots of Republicans, too, but these people are Republicans of a different sort, that's for sure. Maybe they're rabid TeaPartiers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> There is nothing wrong with saying we want to find out what happened. I didn't say he should call it anything different than what he called it. I didn't say anything about speculating or jumping the gun...there are almost 300 people who have died. If i was a loved one of someone who died, I would want someone looking out for me and to offer assistance in finding out what happened.


Frogging123
when did we EVER not do our utmost to find out what happened in cases like this? It was not our Plane, so it is only respectful to ask the Malaysian Government what we can do and I am sure President Obama did just that. Please, take a moment to count how many phone calls the President had to make after this tragedy. Start with trying to think how many Nations are involved since most likely people from many Nations were on this plane. President Obama has shown over and over again that he cares and cares a lot when people suffer and I am sure this is no exception. I know you are moved by what happened and so am I but we need to be realistic and fair when assessing what a President's role is in every situation.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I have lived for 73 years and have known people from all walks of life, different parts of the world, and different social circles but I have never known people like Joey and LTL until I landed on KP chit-chat threads. I'm glad I don't know them in "real life." Their profession of Christianity is a phony cover for what they really are--blinded by hatred, brain-washed by the radical right-wing press (to which they cling steadfastly), and oblivious to the truth. To think that they are representative of who's teaching our kids and filling the pews on Sundays makes me despair. I guess I was naive (and really lucky) but I never really believed there were people quite like this. I always think I've heard the worst from them and then they surprise me with a post even more dreadful than the one before. Hopeless and pathetic. I won't even say how I really feel.


alcameron
Lovethelake and joeysomma are a breed of Republicans that luckily I have never come in contact with. They are Satan's Warriors and lies is their truth. They are dark creatures only the devil can deal with. They are no different than those monsters who took down the plane today. It is people like them who make me give thanks, that Life is not everlasting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> you are really something.


And you are gracious to avoid saying what that something is.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Well, actually, she is nothing.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I have lived for 73 years and have known people from all walks of life, different parts of the world, and different social circles but I have never known people like Joey and LTL until I landed on KP chit-chat threads. I'm glad I don't know them in "real life." Their profession of Christianity is a phony cover for what they really are--blinded by hatred, brain-washed by the radical right-wing press (to which they cling steadfastly), and oblivious to the truth. To think that they are representative of who's teaching our kids and filling the pews on Sundays makes me despair. I guess I was naive (and really lucky) but I never really believed there were people quite like this. I always think I've heard the worst from them and then they surprise me with a post even more dreadful than the one before. Hopeless and pathetic. I won't even say how I really feel.


I'm with you on this one Al.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 Why don't you just admit lovethelake was telling the truth and you were wrong?


You are inviting Designer to be a liar? Shame upon shame on you.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> Actually, according to NBC news, he was on a phone call with Putin. However, this was a prearranged phone call that was scheduled before this tragedy. They stated he was attending two fund raisers. I am unsure whether he attended both fund raisers for the full time, but he was in attendance. I don't think he wad golfing.
> 
> It was disappointing that he spoke for 38 seconds after the crash...he should have shown some conviction that we would get to the bottom of it instead of just saying "it's a terrible tragedy".


At that point, if the news I was following was on time line, nobody knew the exact cause of the crash. To say more would have been presumptuous.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for putting this into words. I, too, have never met people who speak like them, even though some of my best friends are Republicans. But the ones like joeysomma and LTL - they're shameless.


My husband has a former colleague who is retired and living in western Florida. This friend appears to have been seduced by far right rhetoric and keeps sending my husband disgusting e-mails disparaging the President and echoing some of the bosh people like LTL and Joey have bought in to. I had no idea how vicious the attacks could be.

But remember how vicious the attacks against President Lincoln from the slavers crowd? We know how that turned out.

It seems that if a President wants to effect changes that would take a penny out of the pockets of the very rich, he is fodder for haters. With this President, being Black seems to have added fuel to the haters' fury. I remember the attacks against Catholicism when Mr. Kennedy was running and was President. It is the lowest sort of attack to zero in on one's faith, ethnicity, race, or other personal attributes. Not so much so against stupid. Look what stupid has accomplished to hand our current President a huge set of problems.

At least they can't attack this President about being a bad husband, a bad father, a bad son, or a bad son-in-law. Not without seeming bigger idiots. And the First Lady taking on the issue of obesity and nutrition as her project beats redecorating the White House or planting flowers along the sides of the roads. The prior First Lady addressing the issue of literacy was possibly one of the few good things done during that presidency.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am not going to read any more of your nasty, untruthfjul posts. YOu make up stories -- you have no idea. He has been on the phone with Putin, he as been on the phone with the president ofthe Netherlands where the plane started its flight, the president of Malaysia, talking to the head of the UN, that is just a start. You ignore all of that and on top of that you imply that he is not even interested in the world falling apart, Oh and he is also is putting more sanctions on Russia. that is since this morning. You don't tell the truth! I don't believe any of your posts as you are so blinded by your dislike that you would rather tell your friends on D and P the same untruths as you did here. They will agree with every bit of it even though 95% of what you say is not truth.
> 
> I didn't see it by my husband came in and said he had also been talking to Isreali Government officials (top people) about the attacks. This information has been well publicized here in Canada. Do you watch your news???? or might you find that you are spreading lies and gossip? But that is par for the course on your thread. At a time when you yourself say you are worried about a WW , instead of working with your Government you use it as a weapon against your duly elected President. You and your friends are really something.
> 
> It amazes me that you can look in the mirror. It is interesting that Candians know more about what is truly happening the a goodly portion of the Conservatives of your country. I have been watching the news all day and so has my husband. Obama had to be careful what he said this morning when the news of the air disaster first happened, as the information as to whether it was a terrorist attack had not been confirmed. He WASN'T golfing which seems to be what you always accuse him of. Bush didn't Golf? Other Presidents didn't golf often? They were not ridiculed for it , often people they wish to have talks with, were invited to join them. Many many Presidents -- it is only Obama who is not allowed to golf without being attacked by the haters.


Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 Why don't you just admit lovethelake was telling the truth and you were wrong?


Because I wasn't wrong Joey - and way down deep I think you know it..

She and a good percentage of those on D and P have and will continue to spend 85% of their time attacking him. If their attacks were truthful that would be worth something. the other l5% is talking about their lives which is fine. Too bad it isn't the other way around. He is not perfect -- no one, including any and all of you are perfect. But if LtL and LL, and others (actually most of them)haven't got something to post against him they make something up. The world is an absolute mess right now - and it is ALL Obama's fault which is a physical impossibility. Even his wife is called a 'sl-t, and all she had done is be married to him- they are good parents, good family members and decent people.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


Is this an example of "American exceptionalism?"
From your comments I guess you want us to start World War III?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


Coming from the Queen of Nasty and xenophobic, I, for one, take your attacks on Shirley and the rest of us to be an endorsement of our humanity, common sense, and forward looking world view.

So what if Shirley is not a citizen of the US. She is as entitled to state her opinion based upon what appears to be more sophisticated and unbiased information than you and your ilk absorb. It is important for us all to know what people from other parts of the world think about us. We do not live "under the dome" but are part of an interlocked global society - whether you can accept or appreciate it or not.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Because I wasn't wrong Joey - and way down deep I think you know it..
> 
> She and a good percentage of those on D and P have and will continue to spend 85% of their time attacking him. If their attacks were truthful that would be worth something. the other l5% is talking about their lives which is fine. Too bad it isn't the other way around. He is not perfect -- no one, including any and all of you are perfect. But if LtL and LL, and others (actually most of them)haven't got something to post against him they make something up. The world is an absolute mess right now - and it is ALL Obama's fault which is a physical impossibility. Even his wife is called a 'sl-t, and all she had done is be married to him- they are good parents, good family members and decent people.


Are you saying someone on D&P said Michelle Obama is a slut? If you are saying that then 'that' is another big fat lie... If you are saying someone in the media, blog or website or a thread on another political forum you frequent claims 'that' then it is out of D&P's control. You have made this remark more than once. Who said it?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband has a former colleague who is retired and living in western Florida. This friend appears to have been seduced by far right rhetoric and keeps sending my husband disgusting e-mails disparaging the President and echoing some of the bosh people like LTL and Joey have bought in to. I had no idea how vicious the attacks could be.
> 
> But remember how vicious the attacks against President Lincoln from the slavers crowd? We know how that turned out.
> 
> ...


MarilinKnits
Thank you. The ugly Right is trying its best to smear President Obama's name. They are so fearful that he will go down in history as a fine Leader of our Nation and they want to disgrace such a picture. They are doing everything to make it look as if a black person is not worthy of the position of President of the United States. Well, I can assure them that this is not only the first nor last black President we shall have, many highly educated people of color are in line to occupy the White House and shall succeed. The aera of white supremacy is over and it is the dawning of a new one. My pale face will be a minority and I fear it not. Hail to change.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Are you saying someone on D&P said Michelle Obama is a slut? If you are saying that then 'that' is another big fat lie... If you are saying someone in the media, blog or website or a thread on another political forum you frequent claims 'that' then it is out of D&P's control. You have made this remark more than once. Who said it?


gailinipper
face the music, nothing good or decent has ever been said by the Right Wingers about President Obama nor the First Lady. You want to walk back through all of the muck you have thrown about? Good luck, you will be drowning in XXXXXXX.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


She has as much right to comment about Obama as any of us. Actually, more than you, since you insist that Americans were on the plane, when it has been all over the news that there weren't any. Unless you are counting the one foreigner who happened to be studying in the US...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


lovethelace
the Pot calling the Kettle black. Nice try. We also know well how ignorant on World affairs you folks are and I applaud individuals like Designer 1234 who take an interest in what goes on around them since we are living in a Global Community and not in isolation but that fact has escaped you altogether. You wishing that we continue to be the World Power calling all of the shots, is a useless undertaking and if the majoriy of US Citizens would have a sorry attitude like yours, we would face total isolation. Wish we could develop some medicine to treat"dumb" but unfortunatey that won't happen in the near future. Bless you dear.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> She has as much right to comment about Obama as any of us. Actually, more than you, since you insist that Americans were on the plane, when it has been all over the news that there weren't any. Unless you are counting the one foreigner who happened to be studying in the US...


sumpleby
Thank you. I am glad that folks like lovethelake and joesomma are getting exposure these days. In times past families were hiding members this dense and so hateful so not to let the world see how stupid they were. The family name had to be protected but now we know.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> gailinipper
> face the music, nothing good or decent has ever been said by the Right Wingers about President Obama nor the First Lady. You want to walk back through all of the muck you have thrown about? Good luck, you will be drowning in XXXXXXX.


Shirley lies and you detract. Shirley needs to back up her statement about D&P calling MB a slut. It's real simple to do once she finds the strenght to pry herself off the wall of that liberal vortex spin.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Is this an example of "American exceptionalism?"
> From your comments I guess you want us to start World War III?


alcameron
yes, the Right always has Guns ready to aim, just listen to McCain and Cheney. There will never be a War these folks do not like. We MUST pass some Laws that those who start Wars MUST be the first ones to fight them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Shirley lies and you detract. Shirley needs to back up her statement about D&P calling MB a slut. It's real simple to do once she finds the strenght to pry herself off the wall of that liberal vortex spin.


galinipper
Shirley is known to be fair and factual. Accept it. "Liberal" is something you really despise, isn't it. So why don't you step back from all the choices you make in your Life, choices are liberties. Learning a little about the meaning of Liberty I sincerely hope. Prescious LIBERTY.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


lovethelake
trying to smear your stuff on someone-else? It ain't sticking. Nasty is YOUR first, middle and last name. You can't comment on other country's politics because you are so uninformed. Take some tests to show you how truly ill educated on many matters you are. You always leap before you think and expose your lack of knowledge. So sorry about that. You must be very bruised.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> galinipper
> Shirley is known to be fair and factual. Accept it. "Liberal" is something you really despise, isn't it. So why don't you step back from all the choices you make in your Life, choices are liberties. Learning a little about the meaning of Liberty i sincerely hope.


You and Shirley are Liars, you put crap out there and hope it sticks, and then you attack when the crap boomerangs and smacks you both in that canned ham you call a face. Pathetic liars.
For the record...No one on D&P called MO a slut. Shirley lied and Huck is detracting..


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Coming from the Queen of Nasty and xenophobic, I, for one, take your attacks on Shirley and the rest of us to be an endorsement of our humanity, common sense, and forward looking world view.
> 
> So what if Shirley is not a citizen of the US. She is as entitled to state her opinion based upon what appears to be more sophisticated and unbiased information than you and your ilk absorb. It is important for us all to know what people from other parts of the world think about us. We do not live "under the dome" but are part of an interlocked global society - whether you can accept or appreciate it or not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Are you saying someone on D&P said Michelle Obama is a slut? If you are saying that then 'that' is another big fat lie... If you are saying someone in the media, blog or website or a thread on another political forum you frequent claims 'that' then it is out of D&P's control. You have made this remark more than once. Who said it?


Many of the pictures and jokes posted by D&P members represent the First Family as something beneath them. Whether or not they posted them *on* D&P has nothing to do with what Shirley said; it just shows how shameless they are not to hide what is obvious bigotry from KP at large.

And did you really go through all the thousands of pages of D&P to come to your conclusion? Or did you just rely on your memory of the last few weeks?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> trying to smear your stuff on someone-else? It ain't sticking. Nasty is YOUR first, middle and last name. You can't comment on other country's politics because you are so uninformed. Take some tests to show you how truly ill educated on many matters you are. You always leap before you think and expose your lack of knowledge. So sorry about that. You must be very bruised.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Many of the pictures and jokes posted by D&P members represent the First Family as something beneath them. Whether or not they posted them *on* D&P has nothing to do with what Shirley said; it just shows how shameless they are not to hide what is obvious bigotry from KP at large.
> 
> And did you really go through all the thousands of pages of D&P to come to your conclusion? Or did you just rely on your memory of the last few weeks?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> sumpleby
> Thank you. I am glad that folks like lovethelake and joesomma are getting exposure these days. In times past families were hiding members this dense and so hateful so not to let the world see how stupid they were. The family name had to be protected but now we know.


Huck, are you implying that they wouldn't be so honest about their evil qualities if they weren't posting under aliases? Yes, you're probably right, unless they posted on Ron Paul's blog or another like it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> trying to smear your stuff on someone-else? It ain't sticking. Nasty is YOUR first, middle and last name. You can't comment on other country's politics because you are so uninformed. Take some tests to show you how truly ill educated on many matters you are. You always leap before you think and expose your lack of knowledge. So sorry about that. You must be very bruised.


But Huck, she's told us time and again that she's always pleasant and never nasty. How can you say such things about her?


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And did you really go through all the thousands of pages of D&P to come to your conclusion? Or did you just rely on your memory of the last few weeks?


This part of your post should go to Shirley....not me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> You and Shirley are Liars, you put crap out there and hope it sticks, and then you attack when the crap boomerangs and smacks you both in that canned ham you call a face. Pathetic liars.
> For the record...No one on D&P called MO a slut. Shirley lied and Huck is detracting..


This is the most adult message you've ever posted, and it sound like a third-grader wrote it. "That canned ham you call a face"? You're obviously showing everyone how charming you are. I don't know of any one of us "liberals" who would go so low as to describe someone's appearance in that way.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> This part of your post should go to Shirley....not me.


She said what she remembered, and what I do, too. No, if you're claiming total denial, you'll have to back it up.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wonderful post and the compare and contrast of lefties versus people that value human life.
> 
> Wonder what Obama is doing now? Hummmm Americans murdered in a plane shot down with Russian missiles. Israel is being bombed. John Kerry wants to move Obama's red line in the sand and not imposed sanctions on Iraq. Oh I remember. He is in NYC for two fund raisers instead of being back at the White House's Situation room monitoring crisis's that can start WWIII, but think of all money he raised for himself.


If it was up to you the man would be chained to his desk. Since when do you dictate what the leader of any country should be doing and when?
It really gets under your thick skin that he golfs. So what? Many decisions are made during that 18 hole walk, by many presidents before him. 
As of today, there were no Americans aboard that plane. 
WWIII! Really?? You are much more dim witted than I thought.
He has people that work for him whose job it is to look in to these matters. He has the joint chiefs who sit in the situation room monitoring things. 
You are nothing but a harpy and a hater. Plain and simple. Heavy on the simple.
The last line was moot. Everybody already knows that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
How about they own the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.

*If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.*
[end quote]
************************************************************
More like *praying*
Sex is a very spiritual and religious experience. With legs lifted towards the heavens they shout in joyous, glorious voice "Oh God! Oh God!...Oh, Jesus, Yes!!
Why should that be exclusive to married couples? Isn't that limiting freedom of religion?


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Because I wasn't wrong Joey - and way down deep I think you know it..
> 
> She and a good percentage of those on D and P have and will continue to spend 85% of their time attacking him. If their attacks were truthful that would be worth something. the other l5% is talking about their lives which is fine. Too bad it isn't the other way around. He is not perfect -- no one, including any and all of you are perfect. But if LtL and LL, and others (actually most of them)haven't got something to post against him they make something up. The world is an absolute mess right now - and it is ALL Obama's fault which is a physical impossibility. Even his wife is called a 'sl-t, and all she had done is be married to him- they are good parents, good family members and decent people.


It's real simple..Who said it? D&P,blog, website, another forum you frequent???? You have said this more than once, you must have the details. No one called you on it before, this is now and you are being asked about it. Who called MO a slut. Was it a poster on the D&P thread? Yes or No.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know of any one of us "liberals" who would go so low as to describe someone's appearance in that way.


I do


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I do


Got a burr up your bum today, galinipper? Are things that boring over in D&P that you have to follow someone around and harass them?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

galinipper said:


> It's real simple..Who said it? D&P,blog, website, another forum you frequent???? You have said this more than once, you must have the details. No one called you on it before, this is now and you are being asked about it. Who called MO a slut. Was it a poster on the D&P thread? Yes or No.


Did you ever get out of high school? You sound like a teen-aged twit. All that's missing is "n'yah, n'yah, n'yah."


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She said what she remembered, and what I do, too. No, if you're claiming total denial, you'll have to back it up.


Nothing was said about remembering. Read the post. There is even percentages of what and how people think and post...I would say she keeps records of postings, but I would be wrong, they re just lies too. Who are you kidding. If you remembered that someone on D&P called MO a slut you would still be harping on it. Your claim is laughable.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Did you ever get out of high school? You sound like a teen-aged twit. All that's missing is "n'yah, n'yah, n'yah."


Let me count......are there 4 or 5 of you trying to right the wrong of one, named Shirley :-D


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

deleted due to high traffic.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Let me count......are there 4 or 5 of you trying to right the wrong of one, named Shirley :-D


I haven't tried to right any wrong, and who on earth would wade through 8,000 posts just to prove something done was wrong or right. You have to be kidding. You're having such a fit over this that you were probably the poster of the hateful language.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I haven't tried to right any wrong, and who on earth would wade through 8,000 posts just to prove something done was wrong or right. You have to be kidding. You're having such a fit over this that you were probably the poster of the hateful language.


KPG would :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> It's real simple..Who said it? D&P,blog, website, another forum you frequent???? You have said this more than once, you must have the details. No one called you on it before, this is now and you are being asked about it. Who called MO a slut. Was it a poster on the D&P thread? Yes or No.


I remember a RWN saying that Obama probably had AIDS. The comments posted after the picture of him reaching over a sneeze guard were low even for your gang. That's even worse than calling Michelle a slut. Classy bunch,you are not.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Mother Pregnant With Her 10th Child Refuses Cancer Treatment and Abortion
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/18/14 12:15 PM
> 
> ...


This mother obviously does not care about her already-born children.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I haven't tried to right any wrong, and who on earth would wade through 8,000 posts just to prove something done was wrong or right. You have to be kidding. You're having such a fit over this that you were probably the poster of the hateful language.


Another teenage twit heard from.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I haven't tried to right any wrong, and who on earth would wade through 8,000 posts just to prove something done was wrong or right. You have to be kidding. You're having such a fit over this that you were probably the poster of the hateful language.


I believe there is enough hateful language to go around. Not only hateful ,but lies too. I see alot of posters trying to do damage control. So al, am 'I probably the poster of the hateful language' or not.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I remember a RWN saying that Obama probably had AIDS. The comments posted after the picture of him reaching over a sneeze guard were low even for your gang. That's even worse than calling Michelle a slut. Classy bunch,you are not.


Personally, I think they are jealous of Mrs. Obama. She is extremely intelligent, has her own money, a wonderful mother, and she is very buff.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Did you ever get out of high school? You sound like a teen-aged twit. All that's missing is "n'yah, n'yah, n'yah."


I'll see yours and raise you one on that, al!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If Galinipper is so obsessed with this "slut" thing, why doesn't she look it up?
The Obama bashing has been going on for years here. Long before his second election. Some of the women from D&P don't post anymore.
It may not have been said in D&P. more likely a D&P member posting in another thread.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I believe there is enough hateful language to go around. Not only hateful ,but lies too. I see alot of posters trying to do damage control. So al, am 'I probably the poster of the hateful language' or not.


I simply don't care. Every person who frequents D&P has spoken disparagingly about the Obama family, Democrats in general, liberals, and progressives. As a group, they exhibit a twisted value system, a linear existence, a closed mind, and a heart filled with hate that I want no part of. I have been fooled by more than one of that crowd that they are loving Christians. I'm still waiting for the evidence of such.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I simply don't care. Every person who frequents D&P has spoken disparagingly about the Obama family, Democrats in general, liberals, and progressives. As a group, they exhibit a twisted value system, a linear existence, a closed mind, and a heart filled with hate that I want no part of. I have been fooled by more than one of that crowd that they are loving Christians. I'm still waiting for the evidence of such.


Don't hold your breath, al.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Mother Pregnant With Her 10th Child Refuses Cancer Treatment and Abortion
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/18/14 12:15 PM
> 
> ...


I guess this mother expecting her 10th child does not know how to read her temperature and the fertile mucus strand. Time for a different type of birth control for them. Ten children, (in my enlightened view of the world and the effect of high population on the environment) is way too many children.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My Son Was Conceived in Rape, But That Doesnt Define His Value or His Humanity
> 
> by Robyn McLean | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/17/14 7:02 PM
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > My Son Was Conceived in Rape, But That Doesnt Define His Value or His Humanity
> ...


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My Son Was Conceived in Rape, But That Doesnt Define His Value or His Humanity
> 
> by Robyn McLean | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/17/14 7:02 PM
> 
> ...


deleted.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> My Son Was Conceived in Rape, But That Doesnt Define His Value or His Humanity
> 
> by Robyn McLean | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/17/14 7:02 PM
> 
> ...


Did this woman write to the conservative politicos who swear rape cannot result in pregnancy?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Shirley lies and you detract. Shirley needs to back up her statement about D&P calling MB a slut. It's real simple to do once she finds the strenght to pry herself off the wall of that liberal vortex spin.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't hold your breath, al.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


>


That's exactly the response Gali's message deserved.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Shirley lies and you detract. Shirley needs to back up her statement about D&P calling MB a slut. It's real simple to do once she finds the strenght to pry herself off the wall of that liberal vortex spin.


You are such a bunch of tools rallying to smear Shirley as a liar. When you do that, it is your pants that are on fire. Really it is useless to try to explain things to you in words of one syllable or less. Your mind is so closed it is asphyxiated. No fresh thoughts could survive.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The two examples are entirely different. I suggest you read both before you comment.


Only one had to do with rape and pregnancy.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> trying to smear your stuff on someone-else? It ain't sticking. Nasty is YOUR first, middle and last name. You can't comment on other country's politics because you are so uninformed. Take some tests to show you how truly ill educated on many matters you are. You always leap before you think and expose your lack of knowledge. So sorry about that. You must be very bruised.


Huck, ltl's comment is another example of putting the mouth in motion before the brain is in gear.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> You and Shirley are Liars, you put crap out there and hope it sticks, and then you attack when the crap boomerangs and smacks you both in that canned ham you call a face. Pathetic liars.
> For the record...No one on D&P called MO a slut. Shirley lied and Huck is detracting..


And I can see you jumping around red faced stamping your foot like Rumpelstistskin.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The two examples are entirely different. I suggest you read both before you comment.


 One of your pieces of propaganda was about rape resulting in pregnancy, I responded by asking if she had written to politicians who swear rape cannot result in pregnancy. Your other piece of anti choice propaganda regarded Natural Family planning. The operative word to be understood is planning. I responded she has problems reading the fertility results and that ten children is too many for today's world and environment.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And I can see you jumping around red faced stamping your foot like Rumpelstistskin.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You are such a bunch of tools rallying to smear Shirley as a liar. When you do that, it is your pants that are on fire. Really it is useless to try to explain things to you in words of one syllable or less. Your mind is so closed it is asphyxiated. No fresh thoughts could survive.


Only one person called Shirley a liar, just one person asking a question about a post. The rally came from WOW doing damage control. I guess you had to be there.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> How about they own the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> *If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.*
> ...


Has anybody seen the Shouts and Murmurs by Paul Rudnick, "Hobby Lobbyist", in the 7/21/14 New Yorker on page 39? Just read it at the library and it is a must read. As long as you have the magazine check the cartoon on page 58 too.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> How about they own the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> *If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.*
> ...


Those of us who are not devotees of Jesus are more likely to shout "gevalt!"


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And I can see you jumping around red faced stamping your foot like Rumpelstistskin.


I would respond but this post makes no sense, only that you are having visions.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Only one person called Shirley a liar, just one person asking a question about a post. The rally came from WOW doing damage control. I guess you had to be there.


Well, since you apparently have nothing beneficial to contribute here, let me bid you au reservoir.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Right - I am really a thorn in your side. Sorry about that. I wonder why what I say really upsets so many of you. As far as me being a Canadian. You have a Canadian on your thread. She is a very nice lady and she is a Conservative. We have lots of Conservatives in Canada, lots of LIberals too. Thankfully we are still able to talk to each other up here with out hatred. I just hope that the hatred never infiltrates our lives up here like it does in the US.

I don't need anyone to right my wrongs. I don't pretend to get involved with the Specific Politics of the US. I am not familiar with the people who are being discussed and it is not my place.

However, I have been watching what has been happening as far as your President is concerned -{ so is the world}, and I am pro Choice . I am a liberal and have explained why and how I became a liberal. I don't keep track like some of you do, and usually I remember the most extreme posts. Those are the ones that are so far out that you can't help but notice them. Just about everything LTL writes is outrageous so I find I want to answer her. Just like you seem to want to put me in my place. Sorry - I am already in my place. Yes,, my friends do cover my back. Just as you defend LTL and others, which is your right. That is the end of my discussion with you.



galinipper said:


> Let me count......are there 4 or 5 of you trying to right the wrong of one, named Shirley :-D


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Let me count......are there 4 or 5 of you trying to right the wrong of one, named Shirley :-D


It is fine in your eyes if you righties gang up and spew hatred at Shirley. When her friends line up to show solidarity with her you can't take it. Face it, Shirley has friends, we are one another's friends, and we all try to walk the high road, not wallow in the mud of blatant lying about people. You make yourselves cartoon figures the way Thomas Nast depicted Boss Tweed.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Right - I am really a thorn in your side. Sorry about that. I wonder why what I say really upsets so many of you. As far as me being a Canadian. You have a Canadian on your thread. She is a very nice lady and she is a Conservative. We have lots of Conservatives in Canada, lots of LIberals too. Thankfully we are still able to talk to each other up here with out hatred. I just hope that the hatred never infiltrates our lives up here like it does in the US.
> 
> I don't need anyone to right my wrongs. I don't pretend to get involved with the Specific Politics of the US. I am not familiar with the people who are being discussed and it is not my place.
> 
> However, I have been watching what has been happening as far as your President is concerned -{ so is the world}, and I am pro Choice . I am a liberal and have explained why and how I became a liberal. I don't keep track like some of you do, and usually I remember the most extreme posts. Those are the ones that are so far out that you can't help but notice them. Just about everything LTL writes is outrageous so I find I want to answer her. Just like you seem to want to put me in my place. Sorry - I am already in my place. Yes,, my friends do cover my back. Just as you defend LTL and others, which is your right. That is the end of my discussion with you.


Your post was about D&P, you said MO was called a slut, I asked ...did someone on D&P call MO a slut. yes or no?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If Galinipper is so obsessed with this "slut" thing, why doesn't she look it up?
> The Obama bashing has been going on for years here. Long before his second election. Some of the women from D&P don't post anymore.
> It may not have been said in D&P. more likely a D&P member posting in another thread.


I think it was said as a quote by one of the people on the right, last year or the year before. It was quoted and not one person said it was out of line. It was repeated and therefore was given worth by those who didn't say how outrageous it was, in my opinion. I read it more than once. I mentioned it then too. I don't keep track. It is something that speaks to me how absolutely narrow and hateful your thoughts are about your President. I know it was quoted by one of the people on the right within the past couple of years. It was said. Not much difference than the recent remark about your President possibly having HIV . Same, same.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I think it was said as a quote by one of the people on the right, last year or the year before. It was quoted and not one person said it was out of line. It was repeated and therefore was given worth by those who didn't say how outrageous it was, in my opinion. I read it more than once. I mentioned it then too. I don't keep track. It is something that speaks to me how absolutely narrow and hateful your thoughts are about your President. I know it was quoted by one of the people on the right within the past couple of years. It was said. Not much difference than the recent remark about your President possibly having HIV . Same, same.


Your post starts out 'I Think'
you've answered my question...Thank you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Only one person called Shirley a liar, just one person asking a question about a post. The rally came from WOW doing damage control. I guess you had to be there.


I have been called a liar - I have been told that my country is a dreadful place,That our border people did things that I know are not true - I have been told to stay out of the US political situation, I have been told I am arrogant, I have been told I am evil, I have been told that I will burn in Hell (a few years ago). I have been called a liar, stupid and narrow minded. Those are just some of the things I have been told. I didn't worry too much about it then and I don't worry at all about it now. I have also made some friends on both sides of the Political spectrum. So go ahead -- I know I am getting my point across when people like you react so strongly.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Personally, I think they are jealous of Mrs. Obama. She is extremely intelligent, has her own money, a wonderful mother, and she is very buff.


Enviable toned arms. No batwing sleeves there!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Maybe it was Joan Rivers.


It wasn't Joan Rivers who said that Obama probably had HIV or AIDS unless she is posting in KP under a RWN's username.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> One of your pieces of propaganda was about rape resulting in pregnancy, I responded by asking if she had written to politicians who swear rape cannot result in pregnancy. Your other piece of anti choice propaganda regarded Natural Family planning. The operative word to be understood is planning. I responded she has problems reading the fertility results and that ten children is too many for today's world and environment.


Peace Goddess, in my young years, before there was safe, affordable, and effective birth control, we girls joked about a not so funny issue. Sue: What do you call a woman who uses the rhythm method of birth control? Lou: Mommy.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Purl,
One big difference. Rumpel was reputed to be able to spin straw into gold. 
Gali - - - I shall leave the rest of my thoughts to your imagination.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have been called a liar - I have been told that my country is a dreadful place,That our border people did things that I know are not true - I have been told to stay out of the US political situation, I have been told I am arrogant, I have been told I am evil, I have been told that I will burn in Hell (a few years ago). I have been called a liar, stupid and narrow minded. Those are just some of the things I have been told. I didn't worry too much about it then and I don't worry at all about it now. I have also made some friends on both sides of the Political spectrum. So go ahead -- I know I am getting my point across when people like you react so strongly.


I got my point across too..
Please take note...I never said your country was a dreadful place, never told you to stay out of us politics, arrogant, burn in hell, evil, stupid, narrow minded never came from me. Your not the only one that has been called names, just another one.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Only one person called Shirley a liar, just one person asking a question about a post. The rally came from WOW doing damage control. I guess you had to be there.


Only one person this time. I have read posts from several of your cronies jumping on the bash Shirley bandwagon. Are you so inadequate and envious of her numerous talents that you try to raise yourself by putting others down? Pathetic.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Peace Goddess, in my young years, before there was safe, affordable, and effective birth control, we girls joked about a not so funny issue. Sue: What do you call a woman who uses the rhythm method of birth control? Lou: Mommy.


Natural Family Planning can work. Both partners have to abstain from intercourse during fertile times and the temperature, combined with fertile mucus strand and reading and interpreting all fertility signals can work, but only if one wants to limit family size. I used it for years and I have only one child.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Purl,
> One big difference. Rumpel was reputed to be able to spin straw into gold.
> Gali - - - I shall leave the rest of my thoughts to your imagination.


I'm sorry Marilyn, I'm just not getting you today, and I don't think it's me.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I would respond but this post makes no sense, only that you are having visions.


Figures. Ms. No Imagination.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I'm sorry Marilyn, I'm just not getting you today, and I don't think it's me.


Well, I'm guessing that she's implying that straw could be turned into the end products of digestion. Not straw, but maybe hay.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Read all three posts. You decide who made statements that were not true!


Well, since it wasn't Shirley who was lying, and it wasn't I, your choice is somewhat limited.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Only one person this time. I have read posts from several of your cronies jumping on the bash Shirley bandwagon. Are you so inadequate and envious of her numerous talents that you try to raise yourself by putting others down? Pathetic.


By your above standards, you are inadequate and envious, also if I have cronies doesn't that mean you have cronies too.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> By your above standards, you are inadequate and envious, also if I have cronies doesn't that mean you have cronies too.


Marilyn doesn't need to raise herself by putting others down. She has friends, which can be very different than cronies.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I'm sorry Marilyn, I'm just not getting you today, and I don't think it's me.


That is okay. My writing is intended for a more enlightened audience. I am sure some day you will read up to grade level if you work at it.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> By your above standards, you are inadequate and envious, also if I have cronies doesn't that mean you have cronies too.


How can we be envious? Of what?


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Marilyn doesn't need to raise herself by putting others down. She has friends, which can be very different than cronies.


Yea..Sure
You and Marilyns posts are a little to weird for me to follow, so lets just say bye-bye. k


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Maybe it was Joan Rivers.


ahahaaaaaaaaaaa. :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Marilyn doesn't need to raise herself by putting others down. She has friends, which can be very different than cronies.


Thank you. Have a good week end, you and our other friends. And those of us blessed with daughters like yours and mine, let's smile.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Your post starts out 'I Think'
> you've answered my question...Thank you.


Why would you even doubt it? You know the kinds of things you people say about the Obamas. Would you have been embarrassed by it or tried to stop someone from saying it?

I *know* I've seen it in a cartoon or poster-type picture posted by Janeway (and my stomach isn't strong enough to go through all of her posts). I don't know whether it was *on* D&P - if it had been, I would have missed it because I very rarely look in there - but it was certainly posted in a public forum, where anyone could see it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jeez, galinipper, how long are you going to drag this little tantrum out?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Read all three posts. You decide who made statements that were not true!


Obviously, the one writing about all the Americans shot down in that Malaysian plane. There was indeed an American, which is sad, but not plural. If she'd lie about this, we can assumed she lied in the rest of her message.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Purl,
> One big difference. Rumpel was reputed to be able to spin straw into gold.
> Gali - - - I shall leave the rest of my thoughts to your imagination.


Yes, let's leave it at that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I'm sorry Marilyn, I'm just not getting you today, and I don't think it's me.


That's odd; what Marilyn has said is crystal clear, and what she's omitted is obvious.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Figures. Ms. No Imagination.


She's so dizzy from stamping on the floor and spinning around in indignation, that she can't think straight. If she ever could.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> By your above standards, you are inadequate and envious, also if I have cronies doesn't that mean you have cronies too.


You appear to have a logic deficit. What holds for you doesn't necessarily hold for Marilyn, and vice versa. Marilyn is a very clever, thoughtful, cheerful woman who goes out of her way to help others - get the point?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Jeez, galinipper, how long are you going to drag this little tantrum out?


Until she's figured out how to spin $hlt into something less offensive.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Read all three posts. You decide who made statements that were not true!


changed my mind. I am not going to get into it with you, Joey.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Marilyn doesn't need to raise herself by putting others down. She has friends, which can be very different than cronies.


Hear hear! She is a thoughtful, well educated, and honest person. I am proud that she is my friend. I am proud that she accepts me as her friend. Not a crony -- big difference.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Why would you even doubt it? You know the kinds of things you people say about the Obamas. Would you have been embarrassed by it or tried to stop someone from saying it?
> 
> I *know* I've seen it in a cartoon or poster-type picture posted by Janeway (and my stomach isn't strong enough to go through all of her posts). I don't know whether it was *on* D&P - if it had been, I would have missed it because I very rarely look in there - but it was certainly posted in a public forum, where anyone could see it.


Janeway used to post the most dreadful posters and you all applauded her.

However, she has mellowed this past while and she has personal difficulties. She has also backed off a bit because she is ill. We have had our moments but I wish her better health and I hope she feels better soon. I appreciate it that she and I have managed to stop our nastiness against each other.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Jeez, galinipper, how long are you going to drag this little tantrum out?


I don't know! I got my answer on pg 29 at 15:19, they are still going strong, may be an all nighter for WOW. Oh, I'm sorry, you thought it was me still dragging it out. It's not.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Jeez, galinipper, how long are you going to drag this little tantrum out?


Look how long joey's been preaching her antiabortion sermon...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I don't know! I got my answer on pg 29 at 15:19, they are still going strong, may be an all nighter for WOW. Oh, I'm sorry, you thought it was me still dragging it out. It's not.


You got another answer at http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-272802-30.html#5709477. If you chose to ignore it, I'll forgive you. Otherwise it would be an admission that Shirley told the truth. (Even if you ignore it, it would be an admission, but you can wiggle out of it.)


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

The only thing I got from the link you posted was you saying you know you have seen it in a cartoon and you didn't know if it was D&P or another thread. I will chose to ignore it.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


I am not sure where you are getting your information but to date only one American has been identified as killed in the disaster. You state "_Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_". You do not cry for justice for the other victims and may I remind you that 28 Australians died in this disaster, 7 from my own state. So stop screaming about the _Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_ because you are deliberately manipulating the facts to suit your own end.

I think you owe the rest of the world an apology, but I know this will not be forthcoming. You will just verbally abuse me because I am not an American and therefore have no right to voice my opinion.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am not sure where you are getting your information but to date only one American has been identified as killed in the disaster. You state "_Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_". You do not cry for justice for the other victims and may I remind you that 28 Australians died in this disaster, 7 from my own state. So stop screaming about the _Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_ because you are deliberately manipulating the facts to suit your own end.
> 
> I think you owe the rest of the world an apology, but I know this will not be forthcoming. You will just verbally abuse me because I am not an American and therefore have no right to voice my opinion.


I agree with you. What do you want him to do?? come on! There was one Canadian killed, I don't expect my Prime Minister to deal with the situation except through the Political channels. There is a lot going on and the wrong move by any of the Major powers (I know, we are not a major power) could set off a WW. I would rather everyone think very very carefully before they 'do anything'.

I think most 'thinking' Americans would want him to be very careful before making any major decisions. Russia is a world Power and does not always have any interest in treating other countries kindly. Putin is thumbing his nose at the West, how we (with President Obama as the major Western and World leader }reply is very very important your President is wise to be very careful. He would not do his or other Western Countries any favor by attacking or getting into a war with Russia. It would be a nuclear War and that type of war cannot be turned off. Millions would die if one side had no hesitation in using nuclear weapons. I well remember Stalin, and I would imagine many of the rest of you do to.

I hope your President is very very careful.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you. What do you want him to do?? come on! There was one Canadian killed, I don't expect my Prime Minister to deal with the situation except through the Political channels. There is a lot going on and the wrong move by any of the Major powers (I know, we are not a major power) could set off a WW. I would rather everyone think very very carefully before they 'do anything'.
> 
> I think most 'thinking' Americans would want him to be very careful before making any major decisions. Russia is a world Power and does not always have any interest in treating other countries kindly. Putin is thumbing his nose at the West, how we (with President Obama as the major Western and World leader }reply is very very important your President is wise to be very careful. He would not do his or other Western Countries any favor by attacking or getting into a war with Russia. It would be a nuclear War and that type of war cannot be turned off. Millions would die if one side had no hesitation in using nuclear weapons. I well remember Stalin, and I would imagine many of the rest of you do to.
> 
> I hope your President is very very careful.


Shirley, I agree. It is a very delicate situation for everyone. Tony Abbott has refused to discuss whether he will ban Mr Putin from attending the G20 in Brisbane later this year. Julie Bishop, Australia's Foreign Minister, summoned the Russian ambassador, Vladimir Morozov, for a meeting on Friday. The Russian ambassador has denied pro-Russian separatists were responsible for shooting down Malaysia Flight MH17, in which 298 people were killed including at least 28 Australians. Foreign Minister Julie Bishop revealed the denial after she had summoned and met with ambassador Vladimir Morozov in Sydney on Friday


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shirley, I agree. It is a very delicate situation for everyone. Tony Abbott has refused to discuss whether he will ban Mr Putin from attending the G20 in Brisbane later this year. Julie Bishop, Australia's Foreign Minister, summoned the Russian ambassador, Vladimir Morozov, for a meeting on Friday. The Russian ambassador has denied pro-Russian separatists were responsible for shooting down Malaysia Flight MH17, in which 298 people were killed including at least 28 Australians. Foreign Minister Julie Bishop revealed the denial after she had summoned and met with ambassador Vladimir Morozov in Sydney on Friday


It is worrisome. Thank Heavens President Obama thinks before he acts and has ignored those who attack him for 
being careful and thoughtful. They seem to think it is a bad thing. I think it is a very very good thing. I feel much more confident that he can handle the situation through careful thought and discussion, rather than the way President Bush would have handled it if the War in Iraq is any example. JMO!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It is worrisome. Thank Heavens President Obama thinks before he acts and has ignored those who attack him for
> being careful and thoughtful. They seem to think it is a bad thing. I think it is a very very good thing. I feel much more confident that he can handle the situation through careful thought and discussion, rather than the way President Bush would have handled it if the War in Iraq is any example. JMO!


I always welcome your opinion. You display a cool head and an enquiring mind. People do not always have to agree 100% with others but they can always discuss the matter. I have found that you are always willing to discuss. Just to let you know you have fans down here in Australia who are appalled at the unnecessary personal attacks that have been levelled at you lately. People may not agree with your views but that is no reason to attack you in such a way. Keep up the good work and fight the good fight. You have a great talent and an artistic eye.

I am off to bed, even though it is now 7.08 am Saturday morning. I did not sleep last night, spent the night reading.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I always welcome your opinion. You display a cool head and an enquiring mind. People do not always have to agree 100% with others but they can always discuss the matter. I have found that you are always willing to discuss. Just to let you know you have fans down here in Australia who are appalled at the unnecessary personal attacks that have been levelled at you lately. People may not agree with your views but that is no reason to attack you in such a way. Keep up the good work and fight the good fight. You have a great talent and an artistic eye.
> 
> I am off to bed, even though it is now 7.08 am Saturday morning. I did not sleep last night, spent the night reading.


Thankyou Eve. I realize that I rub people the wrong way. I have let my dh read some of the attacks, and he said'you are getting to them". I hope that I make them uncomfortable with the way they are reacting. I know this will cause even more attacks, but that is okay -- sometimes people protest too much. I do think when it comes right down to it, people 
can choose to listen, or sometimes listen without choosing. I hope that is happening.

I enjoy your posts too, as you are a proud Australian, as I am a proud Canadian, but you join in for the same reason I do- I don't see how it can cause harm in a situation like this (what is happening in the US) if people from other parts of the world, join in and let others know how they are perceived by other nationalities. Neither of us are interested in the actual Political situation, it is not up to us. But we have some things in common and we have made friends here who know we support their ideas.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou Eve. I realize that I rub people the wrong way. I have let my dh read some of the attacks, and he said'you are getting to them". I hope that I make them uncomfortable with the way they are reacting. I know this will cause even more attacks, but that is okay -- sometimes people protest too much. I do think when it comes right down to it, people
> can choose to listen, or sometimes listen without choosing. I hope that is happening.
> 
> I enjoy your posts too, as you are a proud Australian, as I am a proud Canadian, but you join in for the same reason I do- I don't see how it can cause harm in a situation like this (what is happening in the US) if people from other parts of the world, join in and let others know how they are perceived by other nationalities. Neither of us are interested in the actual Political situation, it is not up to us. Be we have some things in common and we have made friends here who know we support their ideas.


Really, Shirley, if you happen to rub people the wrong way, then their "fur" is just growing the wrong way.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Your post starts out 'I Think'
> you've answered my question...Thank you.


Yes, I think, do you??


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Really, Shirley, if you happen to rub people the wrong way, then their "fur" is just growing the wrong way.


Thank maysmom. You all make me feel as if I am not in 'the wilderness' Actually I don't worry too much - all of you have been treated badly and I do say things which must irritate them. Maybe in one or two cases, _way down deep_ one or two of them are 'thinking' that I say what I feel, and I speak the truth. Words can't really hurt me. I know my own motives. So do my friends. That is all that matters.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou Eve. I realize that I rub people the wrong way. I have let my dh read some of the attacks, and he said'you are getting to them". I hope that I make them uncomfortable with the way they are reacting. I know this will cause even more attacks, but that is okay -- sometimes people protest too much. I do think when it comes right down to it, people
> can choose to listen, or sometimes listen without choosing. I hope that is happening.
> 
> I enjoy your posts too, as you are a proud Australian, as I am a proud Canadian, but you join in for the same reason I do- I don't see how it can cause harm in a situation like this (what is happening in the US) if people from other parts of the world, join in and let others know how they are perceived by other nationalities. Neither of us are interested in the actual Political situation, it is not up to us. Be we have some things in common and we have made friends here who know we support their ideas.


Eve and Shirley, the major tone I have garnered from your interchange is that you are proud humanitarian human beings who see the long picture and have a prudent view on this situation. I am also relieved that Mr. Obama is taking a moderate stance in public. I have a feeling that behind the scenes he is tougher. But he certainly is not going to foment panic.

Every time there is a crisis I rather hold my breath and hope it is not the road to Armageddon. I was a small child when Pearl Harbor was attacked during the time the US and Japan were having diplomatic negotiations. Fortunately as time has passed and new generations have come along with more sensible outlooks, national relationships have moved in a positive direction. I hope with all my heart it does not take a 5 year devastating war to resolve current conflicts. Pandora's box has been opened and any major war can move the survivors back into the dark ages.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I got my point across too..
> Please take note...I never said your country was a dreadful place, never told you to stay out of us politics, arrogant, burn in hell, evil, stupid, narrow minded never came from me. Your not the only one that has been called names, just another one.


I never for a minute said you did. I said that over the past few years those are the things that have been said to me. Don't put words in my mouth. Yes, since President Obama said he was running, terrible things have been said. It is getting worse, in my opinion, than ever. There is actual hate towards him - you know it and I know it. I don't know you and rarely have had a conversation with you. You seem to feel that my feelings about LTL were unkind. Yes, I guess they were, but she rarely speaks the truth. She goes around it and makes statements that are just not, and can be proven not to be the truth. Like she did today. She does that just about every time she posts, especially when she is talking about the President. I will continue to call her on it, and if people like you wish to 'defend' her, so be it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am not sure where you are getting your information but to date only one American has been identified as killed in the disaster. You state "_Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_". You do not cry for justice for the other victims and may I remind you that 28 Australians died in this disaster, 7 from my own state. So stop screaming about the _Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_ because you are deliberately manipulating the facts to suit your own end.
> 
> I think you owe the rest of the world an apology, but I know this will not be forthcoming. You will just verbally abuse me because I am not an American and therefore have no right to voice my opinion.


An apology? Surely you jest.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> The only thing I got from the link you posted was you saying you know you have seen it in a cartoon and you didn't know if it was D&P or another thread. I will chose to ignore it.


I also told you who posted it. Not enough information?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes, I think, do you??


Great comeback!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> When He Learned His Business Was Being Used to Build an Abortion Clinic, What He Did Was Priceless
> 
> by Sarah Zagorski | New Orleans, LA | LifeNews.com | 7/18/14 4:23 PM
> 
> _A baby graveyard is being built in New Orleans, and its quite an expensive one too. Whos building it? None other than Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion business in America._


I bet this originally came from The Onion.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I bet this originally came from The Onion.


The Onion! I used to read it frequently, guess I should resume---


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I enjoy your posts too, as you are a proud Australian, as I am a proud Canadian, but you join in for the same reason I do- I don't see how it can cause harm in a situation like this (what is happening in the US) if people from other parts of the world, join in and let others know how they are perceived by other nationalities. But we have some things in common and we have made friends here who know we support their ideas.


I neglected to acknowledge that there is a Canadian on D and P who is a Conservative - which is certainly good. I know that she agrees with some of the things that are spoken on that site. So both sides are represented by people from other countries. There are Conservatives and Liberals in most countries. It seems to be only here that a divide has developed that is becoming so deep that I wonder if it can ever be bridged for the sake of your country. I just hope that Canada never reaches the same situation the US is experiencing right now. I think that the mindset is different. We don't have divisions about our gun laws, we have not had slaves in the history of our Country, which has caused and to me still causes a huge division in attitude, we do have a lot of people who disagree with each other about Women's choice however. We have had differences with the French Canadians, especially during the war, but we don't hate each other and we live together peacefully, without too much 
difficulty. We have been guilty of racism against our First Nations People, and hopefully, slowly attitudes are changing.

We have our scandals with some of our Political Senators and other Political, elected officials. We are much like the States but there are still basic differences. It is interesting to me.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Because I wasn't wrong Joey - and way down deep I think you know it..
> 
> She and a good percentage of those on D and P have and will continue to spend 85% of their time attacking him. If their attacks were truthful that would be worth something. the other l5% is talking about their lives which is fine. Too bad it isn't the other way around. He is not perfect -- no one, including any and all of you are perfect. But if LtL and LL, and others (actually most of them)haven't got something to post against him they make something up. The world is an absolute mess right now - and it is ALL Obama's fault which is a physical impossibility. Even his wife is called a 'sl-t, and all she had done is be married to him- they are good parents, good family members and decent people.


Prove me wrong. What did I lie about yesterday or today?

I am sure that my friends on D&P's are so excited that you approve of their conversations about their lives.

Your above comment once again proves that you are so blinded by your political agenda, which I still don't understand since he is not your president. that you must go to nasty. Most is Obama's fault because of his lack of courage, leading from behind, failed foreign policy, failed economic policies, but he is a success in fundraising. He has spent over 392 days attending fundraisers. Over a whole year in 5 years raising money and not doing the job he chose to do. Add in his golfing outings (over a 138 by January of 2014, so it has to be a much larger number today) and he has probably spent two years not working out of 5.

Again prove what I said yesterday or today is a lie? But you won't because you would be lying.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prove me wrong. What did I lie about yesterday or today?
> 
> I am sure that my friends on D&P's are so excited that you approve of their conversations about their lives.
> 
> ...


I have already answered you and won't bother to do so again. Rant all you want . I won't answer any more of your posts about the current subjects, but will comment if you keep on posting some of your statements which are untrue.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hasnain said:


> You, and Feckthelake, per usual.


Wow a new user that is already a name caller, and resorts to vulgar language attempting to communicate.

Think the comment 'per usual' is odd unless you spent as much time reading old posts as Obama fundraises and plays golf

Classic, yet still pathetic


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I have already answered you and won't bother to do so again. Rant all you want . I won't answer any more of your posts about the current subjects, but will comment if you keep on posting some of your statements which are untrue.


But yesterday you said that too.

But you have accused me of lying in my posts yesterday and today. You can't can you? Pathetic


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Friends, I just watched your President on the US News. He was very interesting . I imagine that you have seen it too. Good speech and he made it clear about what is the Position of the US.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But yesterday you said that too.
> 
> But you have accused me of lying in my posts yesterday and today. You can't can you? Pathetic


Read my posts. I am not interested in getting into a conversation -


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Shirley lies and you detract. Shirley needs to back up her statement about D&P calling MB a slut. It's real simple to do once she finds the strenght to pry herself off the wall of that liberal vortex spin.


gailinipper
Shirley is an honest, fair, factual individual, eat your Heart out that your reputation is so far removed from hers.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO your comments about President Barack Obama are especially contemptible because you are an American. They reveal your nasty racist nature. You are certainly not worth my time.



lovethelake said:


> Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> How about they own the company. Better thought, since you are so concerned someone might not be able to get their morning after pill or IUD, why don't you find an employee of Hobby Lobby that really needs one, and pay for it, for her.
> 
> *If people are having sex outside of marriage, they are just playing.*
> ...


Bratty Patty
that is the BEST description of sex I have ever read. T H A N K Y O U. And now THEY wonder what they have been missing all these years. Perhaps someone whispered it to them and not have had such heavenly encounters made THEM so angry.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe she would suggest a 'diplomatic' group consisting of Dick Cheney and John McCain go to negotiate with Putin. That ought to stir things up just in case he thinks Russia and the Ukraine can get away with just trying to look innocent.



alcameron said:


> Is this an example of "American exceptionalism?"
> From your comments I guess you want us to start World War III?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Personally, I think they are jealous of Mrs. Obama. She is extremely intelligent, has her own money, a wonderful mother, and she is very buff.


Bratty Patty
no doubt they are jealous. Our First Lady is fit, intelligent, a fine Mother, a great wife, an exemplary First Lady and truly deserves the high marks she keeps getting constantly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We've been through this before with that empty-headed nit wit.



MarilynKnits said:


> Coming from the Queen of Nasty and xenophobic, I, for one, take your attacks on Shirley and the rest of us to be an endorsement of our humanity, common sense, and forward looking world view.
> 
> So what if Shirley is not a citizen of the US. She is as entitled to state her opinion based upon what appears to be more sophisticated and unbiased information than you and your ilk absorb. It is important for us all to know what people from other parts of the world think about us. We do not live "under the dome" but are part of an interlocked global society - whether you can accept or appreciate it or not.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prove me wrong. What did I lie about yesterday or today?
> 
> I am sure that my friends on D&P's are so excited that you approve of their conversations about their lives.
> 
> ...


Methinks you love the lake way too much- your soggy surmising is showing.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe she would suggest a 'diplomatic' group consisting of Dick Cheney and John McCain go to negotiate with Putin. That ought to stir things up just in case he thinks Russia and the Ukraine can get away with just trying to look innocent.


You put three little boys who like to play war together, and no good will come of that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilinKnits
> Thank you. The ugly Right is trying its best to smear President Obama's name. They are so fearful that he will go down in history as a fine Leader of our Nation and they want to disgrace such a picture. They are doing everything to make it look as if a black person is not worthy of the position of President of the United States. Well, I can assure them that this is not only the first nor last black President we shall have, many highly educated people of color are in line to occupy the White House and shall succeed. The aera of white supremacy is over and it is the dawning of a new one. My pale face will be a minority and I fear it not. Hail to change.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl
I love it. Unfortunately lame brains feel no pain.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Read my posts. I am not interested in getting into a conversation -


There are just some people with whom intelligent conversation is impossible, and they seem to flash mob here.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have been called a liar - I have been told that my country is a dreadful place,That our border people did things that I know are not true - I have been told to stay out of the US political situation, I have been told I am arrogant, I have been told I am evil, I have been told that I will burn in Hell (a few years ago). I have been called a liar, stupid and narrow minded. Those are just some of the things I have been told. I didn't worry too much about it then and I don't worry at all about it now. I have also made some friends on both sides of the Political spectrum. So go ahead -- I know I am getting my point across when people like you react so strongly.


Designer1234
you are a Jewel and we value your friendship and sometimes are even jealous of your Country. Oh Canada, lovely Canada, beautiful Canada full of lovely People.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But Huck, she's told us time and again that she's always pleasant and never nasty. How can you say such things about her?


Satire alert.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> that is the BEST description of sex I have ever read. T H A N K Y O U. And now THEY wonder what they have been missing all these years. Perhaps someone whispered it to them and not have had such heavenly encounters made THEM so angry.


Haha, that is a good one, Bratty. Although dh & I had the unfortunate experience of overhearing an "Oh Mama!!" several times through rather thin hotel walls...made for hysterical laughter on our side.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

galinipper said:


> By your above standards, you are inadequate and envious, also if I have cronies doesn't that mean you have cronies too.


galinipper
you don't understand, we are friends, your hangers-on are cronies by need. Without each other you are lost sheep.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Yea..Sure
> You and Marilyns posts are a little to weird for me to follow, so lets just say bye-bye. k


galinipper
bye bye sounds quite nice - it has a soothing sound.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For the record, you lie, gossip, insult people and make up the most assinine metaphors. A canned ham for a face? Indeed. You're also stupid. IMHO



galinipper said:


> You and Shirley are Liars, you put crap out there and hope it sticks, and then you attack when the crap boomerangs and smacks you both in that canned ham you call a face. Pathetic liars.
> For the record...No one on D&P called MO a slut. Shirley lied and Huck is detracting..


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put Patty. Glad to have you back.



BrattyPatty said:


> If it was up to you the man would be chained to his desk. Since when do you dictate what the leader of any country should be doing and when?
> It really gets under your thick skin that he golfs. So what? Many decisions are made during that 18 hole walk, by many presidents before him.
> As of today, there were no Americans aboard that plane.
> WWIII! Really?? You are much more dim witted than I thought.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Got a burr up your bum today, galinipper? Are things that boring over in D&P that you have to follow someone around and harass them?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Did you ever get out of high school? You sound like a teen-aged twit. All that's missing is "n'yah, n'yah, n'yah."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: And we should add: RIGHT BACK AT YOU.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I simply don't care. Every person who frequents D&P has spoken disparagingly about the Obama family, Democrats in general, liberals, and progressives. As a group, they exhibit a twisted value system, a linear existence, a closed mind, and a heart filled with hate that I want no part of. I have been fooled by more than one of that crowd that they are loving Christians. I'm still waiting for the evidence of such.


Not everyone.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Friends, I just watched your President on the US News. He was very interesting . I imagine that you have seen it too. Good speech and he made it clear about what is the Position of the US.


double post, see below--


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shirley takes care of your sort quite well. The rest of us are just speaking for ourselves. Just because the opinions agree is no reason to think otherwise. Good night.



galinipper said:


> Let me count......are there 4 or 5 of you trying to right the wrong of one, named Shirley :-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> I remember a RWN saying that Obama probably had AIDS. The comments posted after the picture of him reaching over a sneeze guard were low even for your gang. That's even worse than calling Michelle a slut. Classy bunch,you are not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Friends, I just watched your President on the US News. He was very interesting . I imagine that you have seen it too. Good speech and he made it clear about what is the Position of the US.


If a RWN did see it, Shirley, she probably needed someone to explain it to her, especially to point out what exactly he's doing wrong. THen she can run right over and blab here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I simply don't care. Every person who frequents D&P has spoken disparagingly about the Obama family, Democrats in general, liberals, and progressives. As a group, they exhibit a twisted value system, a linear existence, a closed mind, and a heart filled with hate that I want no part of. I have been fooled by more than one of that crowd that they are loving Christians. I'm still waiting for the evidence of such.


I never saw any reason to believe any of them are good Christians.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > My Son Was Conceived in Rape, But That Doesnt Define His Value or His Humanity
> ...


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Not everyone.


That single one must be hiding in fear.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am not sure where you are getting your information but to date only one American has been identified as killed in the disaster. You state "_Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_". You do not cry for justice for the other victims and may I remind you that 28 Australians died in this disaster, 7 from my own state. So stop screaming about the _Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles_ because you are deliberately manipulating the facts to suit your own end.
> 
> I think you owe the rest of the world an apology, but I know this will not be forthcoming. You will just verbally abuse me because I am not an American and therefore have no right to voice my opinion.


EveMCooke
this forum is as much yours as anyone-else's. I am sorry that you lost so many in this horrible event and I hope that those who killed those People will be brought to justice and an appropriate one. Folks here jumped immediately on our President to step in and as some voiced to even start another War. Well, any time there is such a disaster, the Country in which it happened is responsible for an investigation, President Obama's Heart being in the right place, offered to assist those who would like or need a helping hand. He knows what is right, some folks here, never get anything right and hope that having stepped to the right will remedy that, fat chance, they are almost falling off the Planet. I have much pity for these poor Souls.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Well, since you apparently have nothing beneficial to contribute here, let me bid you au reservoir.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Shirley.



Designer1234 said:


> Right - I am really a thorn in your side. Sorry about that. I wonder why what I say really upsets so many of you. As far as me being a Canadian. You have a Canadian on your thread. She is a very nice lady and she is a Conservative. We have lots of Conservatives in Canada, lots of LIberals too. Thankfully we are still able to talk to each other up here with out hatred. I just hope that the hatred never infiltrates our lives up here like it does in the US.
> 
> I don't need anyone to right my wrongs. I don't pretend to get involved with the Specific Politics of the US. I am not familiar with the people who are being discussed and it is not my place.
> 
> However, I have been watching what has been happening as far as your President is concerned -{ so is the world}, and I am pro Choice . I am a liberal and have explained why and how I became a liberal. I don't keep track like some of you do, and usually I remember the most extreme posts. Those are the ones that are so far out that you can't help but notice them. Just about everything LTL writes is outrageous so I find I want to answer her. Just like you seem to want to put me in my place. Sorry - I am already in my place. Yes,, my friends do cover my back. Just as you defend LTL and others, which is your right. That is the end of my discussion with you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> That is okay. My writing is intended for a more enlightened audience. I am sure some day you will read up to grade level if you work at it.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hasnain said:


> No one here reads anything other than the cartoo ish headlinea. She's stupid enough to think that people would actually consider one of her "sources" seriously.


Hasnain
only her cronies.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysmma
want you do know that your fictional stories are benefiting Planned Parenthood and NARAL wonderfully. No greater pleasure than to give so often for such good causes. Don't
you worry, I won't run out of money.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put Hasnain! Glad to have you aboard.



Hasnain said:


> Thank You
> 
> The blessing we now have with Obama is that he's not an embarassment to this country the way our developmentally disabled wannabe cowboy titular president and his evil Darth Vader-esque "Vice" President Cheney were and are.
> 
> Even Liberals don't think Obama is perfect, but it is a near miracle that he he helped guide us out of the worst financial meltdown since 1930, wich is a result of almost a quarter century of various levels of Reaganomics.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hasnain said:


> When Obama catches up with the lazy arses of both Bush "presidents" and Reagan, all three who took many more vacations than Obama then you can complain, until then, it's consistenly the Right's presidents that are lazy and lack work ethic.
> 
> And unless you're for limiting political spending to public funding and ending private donations, you're a hypocrite for complaining about any politician going to fund-raisers.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Prove me wrong. What did I lie about yesterday or today?
> 
> I am sure that my friends on D&P's are so excited that you approve of their conversations about their lives.
> 
> ...


lovethalk
you would not accept the fact that you lie rather consistenly if a God told you you do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hand to hand combat could solve a lot.



maysmom said:


> You put three little boys who like to play war together, and no good will come of that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I love it. Unfortunately lame brains feel no pain.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Those of us who are not devotees of Jesus are more likely to shout "gevalt!"


Does that translate to "Hardball(s) to centerfield??!!"

I know, I know, it's late.

:twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> That single one must be hiding in fear.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Hasnain
> only her cronies.


And her cronies only for publication.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Hasnain said:


> But you loved to gang up with these women who CONSTANTLY revealed their lack of humanity and racism towards Obama and then pretended it was little more than a simple difference of opinion.
> 
> Now you KNOW that much if not all of their rhetoric is hate and racism based.
> 
> ...


Hasnain? More like Has-been. At least you will be shortly.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Hasnain? More like Has-been. At least you will be shortly.


And the Wombat morphs yet again. Will it be you who determines that Hasnain will be Has-been shortly?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hardly, No More.



Wombatnomore said:


> Hasnain? More like Has-been. At least you will be shortly.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Not everyone.


Exactly.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

maysmom said:


> That single one must be hiding in fear.


If you go back through the posts, I did call them on their remarks. I am not hiding in fear...just choose to stay away.
I don't come here because you won't like me. A friend pm'd me to let me know what your current topic was. Are you going to throw a canned ham at me?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hasnain said:


> BTW, has ANYONE EVER had an abortion of a fetus by rape because they thought it "defined" it's value?
> 
> I mean, if it doesn't emotionally and psychologically torture you to gestate and birth a baby conceived by rape, that's your choice. But to FORCE a woman into that is just ANOTHER form of rape.
> 
> First raped by a man and then raped by JoeySomma and her ilk.


Hasnain
what you are posting is way over the head of joeysomma and her likes.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hasnain said:


> I've been right with you Huck. No kidding.


Hasnain
Thank you. To support Women in need is honorable. Mammograms and Papsmears are Life saving and apparently nothing joeysomma is interested in.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

gjz said:


> If you go back through the posts, I did call them on their remarks. I am not hiding in fear...just choose to stay away.
> I don't come here because you won't like me. A friend pm'd me to let me know what your current topic was. Are you going to throw a canned ham at me?


The ham came from Galinipper, one of the D&P crowd. She's the one you'll have to watch out for.

I wonder why you think we won't like you. For myself, as long as you don't preach to us, and have something interesting to say once in a while, I'd be happy to hear a new voice. As long as it's telling the truth. It's the lies and conspiracy theories and preaching that are offensive.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The ham came from Galinipper, one of the D&P crowd. She's the one you'll have to watch out for.
> 
> I wonder why you think we won't like you. For myself, as long as you don't preach to us, and have something interesting to say once in a while, I'd be happy to hear a new voice. As long as it's telling the truth. It's the lies and conspiracy theories and preaching that are offensive.


Ditto here gjz. There are a few trouble-makers, but surely you can handle them. Most of us are welcoming of strangers as long as the mentioned 'rules' are followed.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO your comments about President Barack Obama are especially contemptible because you are an American. They reveal your nasty racist nature. You are certainly not worth my time.


Great. But when are you libs going to get it through your incredibly concrete filled brains that disagreeing with Obama does not make someone a racist? Calling people racists is a pathetic attempt to justify his failure of being the president. Maybe you are the racist since all you can do is focus on the color of his skin and not the inadequacy of his presidency and administration.

But since you chose to reply, in the past three days where did I lie as I was accused of doing? I didn't. So I rest my case.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Friends, I just watched your President on the US News. He was very interesting . I imagine that you have seen it too. Good speech and he made it clear about what is the Position of the US.


BINGO

Nothing more than a campaign like speech with no action, and a bunch of empty promises. But then again another red line was moved and no sanctions against Iran, so that was another wasted (or deceiving) campaign speech.

But his M.O. is to go to a fund raiser as Americans are murdered so he can make a speech to get money from the 1% that he despises so much. But maybe that is what he means when he says they are not giving their fair share. Maybe he purposely forgets to add not giving their fair share to him? If he taxed these people anymore, how will the be able to go to his fund raising dinners? Seems counterproductive to me.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> BINGO
> 
> Nothing more than a campaign like speech with no action, and a bunch of empty promises. But then again another red line was moved and no sanctions against Iran, so that was another wasted (or deceiving) campaign speech.
> 
> But his M.O. is to go to a fund raiser as Americans are murdered so he can make a speech to get money from the 1% that he despises so much. But maybe that is what he means when he says they are not giving their fair share. Maybe he purposely forgets to add not giving their fair share to him? If he taxed these people anymore, how will the be able to go to his fund raising dinners? Seems counterproductive to me.


Give it a rest, please.

Honestly, are you still going on about Americans being murdered by the Russians in the Malaysian air disaster, even though it has been pointed out to you that only 1, that is ONE American was on the aeroplane. Australia lost 28 people, 7 came from Western Australia. Consider how many people live in the USA, 317 million as opposed to Australia, 22.68 million, and Western Australia 2.563 million? You can work out the percentages of population. Given our small population of 2.563 million, to love 7 citizens is a lot. Australia is not a tiny island either, Australia has a land mass equal to over 70% of the land mass of the USA.

Your last post about people with concrete filled brains????? Such a Christian comment????? You really should not judge others by yourself. You really are a very nasty person.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The ham came from Galinipper, one of the D&P crowd. She's the one you'll have to watch out for.
> 
> I wonder why you think we won't like you. For myself, as long as you don't preach to us, and have something interesting to say once in a while, I'd be happy to hear a new voice. As long as it's telling the truth. It's the lies and conspiracy theories and preaching that are offensive.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> LTL - So far, all they have found is that you used a plural, American*s*. At the time of your post, it was reported 23 Americans were on that plane. They did say it was unconfirmed. It was several hours later, before it was confirmed that it was less than originally reported.
> 
> Then, I think, Designer thought you were *nasty* because you said he at a fundraiser and you said nothing about the phone calls. Again at the time of your post, it was reported that he was going to the fundraisers. Phone calls were not mentioned. But it is a given that when the President is on Air force One he can reach anyone by phone.
> 
> The reason they have not answered you is that there is none and your statement was true.


It seems that you have also chosen to ignore the facts.

So far only one American has been confirmed as having lost their life. Australia was said to have lost 28 but it now seems that the figure is 34, _sorry, typo, should have been 36 people killed_. The Prime Ministers office has confirmed that in addition to 28 Australian citizens, there were also eight permanent residents on board MH17. The figure of 23 Americans was quoted by one news source, and only one news source, which said it was unconfirmed. No other news source quoted this figure. So it is not just a case of "So far, all they have found is that you used a plural, American*s*." Both of you are manipulating your posts and quotes to suit your own ends. So it is not just a case of "It was several hours later, before it was confirmed that it was less than originally reported." it is a case of only one American being killed, not just "confirmed that it was less than originally reported". Both of you are using this as an excuse to bash your President. Shame of both of you. You are not sending a positive message to the rest of the world. Remember, posters in the rest of the world will judge other Americans by your nasty and hateful remarks. You both owe an apology to those nations who did lose citizens in this disaster.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've learned not to get into a 'who said what' debate. You twist and manipulate how many angels are dancing on a pin. Don't need it.



joeysomma said:


> What did LTL post that was a lie? you have written a lot of words, but what did she post that was a lie?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I've learned not to get into a 'who said what' debate. You twist and manipulate how many angels are dancing on a pin. Don't need it.


Wish I was better at that.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What did LTL post that was a lie? you have written a lot of words, but what did she post that was a lie?


Once again you are twisting words and putting your words into someone else's mouth. I did not say she posted a lie, I posted that she was deliberately misinterpreting facts. I will post her comment, with the deliberate misinterpreted facts underlined so you can read them. I will also post my reply. Did you actually read my posts? I repeat: Both of you are deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting figures to suit your own agenda.

lovethelake wrote:

"Great, because your comments always return to your true nasty nature. In fact your comments about Obama are worthless since you aren't an American. I rarely comment on other country's politics, unless it is a direct danger to the USA. But you aren't worth my time. Need to watch the news to see how Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles and how he will let Israel dangle in the wind as they desperately try to defend themselves. Wonder how much money he raised?"

my reply: You will note that I did not say she lied. I said she was deliberately manipulating the facts to suit her own end.

I am not sure where you are getting your information but to date only one American has been identified as killed in the disaster. You state "Obama won't do anything about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles". You do not cry for justice for the other victims and may I remind you that 28 Australians died in this disaster, 7 from my own state. So stop screaming about the Americans that were murdered by Russian missiles because you are deliberately manipulating the facts to suit your own end.

As only 1 American has been confirmed as killed in the disaster, how can LTL justify her comments that Americans were murdered by Russian missiles. Even if only 1 American was killed, it is a deliberate twisting of facts to state or imply that American citizens were targeted by the Russians. The aeroplane was not an American plane, it had not taken off from an American Aerodrome nor was it headed towards an American aerodrome. The plane was headed towards Malaysia from the Netherlands, if it had been headed towards the USA it would have been flying in the opposite direction, not the way it was flying. Have you actually studied the reports, have you seen how many citizens of the Netherlands were killed? Australia had 36 citizens killed.

No, you will not check the facts and admit that you have possibly misread what I wrote. I repeat I did not say LTL had lied, I said she was misquoting and misinterpreting the facts. Nothing will ever get you to admit that you have made a mistake. You will continue to use any opportunity to criticise and condemn your President. Shame on you.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Wish I was better at that.


I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Stick with me, kid. Hugs. Your talents are needed elsewhere.



Designer1234 said:


> Wish I was better at that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Eve, you're too good for this. She is beneath your notice.



EveMCooke said:


> Once again you are twisting words and putting your words into someone else's mouth. I did not say she posted a lie, I posted that she was deliberately misinterpreting facts. I will post her comment, with the deliberate misinterpreted facts underlined so you can read them. I will also post my reply. Did you actually read my posts? I repeat: Both of you are deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting figures to suit your own agenda.
> 
> lovethelake wrote:
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're 100% correct Eve. The President can take it. We will support him.



EveMCooke said:


> I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Great. But when are you libs going to get it through your incredibly concrete filled brains that disagreeing with Obama does not make someone a racist? Calling people racists is a pathetic attempt to justify his failure of being the president. Maybe you are the racist since all you can do is focus on the color of his skin and not the inadequacy of his presidency and administration.
> 
> But since you chose to reply, in the past three days where did I lie as I was accused of doing? I didn't. So I rest my case.


lovethelake
"disagreeing" you call your stance toward the President? Now I understand that you do not understand what you are saying. Obviously your Teachers failed you miserably. Not a racist cell in or bodies, however great dislike for folks like you. Wonder why the irresponsible decisions made by Bush/Cheney did not wrinkle your bloomers. That administration's administrating cost hundred's of thousands of lives and debt for which we have to pay for at least another decade since it amounts to Trillions of our Tax Dollars. Don't worry, we will never forget the harm Bush/Cheney has done to us. BTW reverse the Dia., you got it backwards. Well, what can we expect.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


EveMCooke
you can bet on THEM reading every word we post, they just do not understand what we are saying. I think, they are "not allowed" to think, they have Masters who rule them. Perhaps they exist in modern day Slavery, which is quite common according to the latest Book of a former President.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Wish I was better at that.


You are great at that! :thumbdown:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What did LTL post that was a lie? you have written a lot of words, but what did she post that was a lie?


joeysomma
don't make yourself look dumber than we have learned you are. Perhaps you should stick to numbers rather than words and while you are at it, add up the cost of Bush/Cheney's miserable administrating. Don't forget to include the lives lost.


----------



## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

Totally agree with you!


----------



## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What person working for $15/hour would turn down any kind of insurance her employer gives her and choose instead to buy her own? In fact, don't you know people making twice as much who don't "bother to read" (i.e., don't understand) the plan before signing? Additionally, who knows at the start of the policy year what new medications or devices a doctor might prescribe?
> 
> Oh, poor life choices, again?


 :thumbup:


----------



## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Probably the poorest life choice was the lack of choice in a depressed job market that found them employed by Hobby Lobby. Quite possibly they did not have full disclosure regarding the ambiance of the company and thought it would be a benign job paying more than some other McJobs.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Once again you are twisting words and putting your words into someone else's mouth. I did not say she posted a lie, I posted that she was deliberately misinterpreting facts. I will post her comment, with the deliberate misinterpreted facts underlined so you can read them. I will also post my reply. Did you actually read my posts? I repeat: Both of you are deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting figures to suit your own agenda.
> 
> lovethelake wrote:
> 
> ...


EveMCooke
let's face it, everything is the President's fault according to the Crazies, even if they are constipated, they blame it on him. It is that simple.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma
lovethalke
spend a few bucks and get a Carpenter, you have some crews loose. Attacking President Obama re. the downed Airliner is pointing out your need for repairs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great. But when are you libs going to get it through your incredibly concrete filled brains that disagreeing with Obama does not make someone a racist? Calling people racists is a pathetic attempt to justify his failure of being the president. Maybe you are the racist since all you can do is focus on the color of his skin and not the inadequacy of his presidency and administration.
> 
> But since you chose to reply, in the past three days where did I lie as I was accused of doing? I didn't. So I rest my case.


You certainly didn't stick to the facts when you accused him of ignoring all those Americans on the downed plane. It should have said "that American," singular. There was _one_.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Give it a rest, please.
> 
> Honestly, are you still going on about Americans being murdered by the Russians in the Malaysian air disaster, even though it has been pointed out to you that only 1, that is ONE American was on the aeroplane. Australia lost 28 people, 7 came from Western Australia. Consider how many people live in the USA, 317 million as opposed to Australia, 22.68 million, and Western Australia 2.563 million? You can work out the percentages of population. Given our small population of 2.563 million, to love 7 citizens is a lot. Australia is not a tiny island either, Australia has a land mass equal to over 70% of the land mass of the USA.
> 
> Your last post about people with concrete filled brains????? Such a Christian comment????? You really should not judge others by yourself. You really are a very nasty person.


Please, Eve, she can't be nasty. She's told us several times that she's never nasty. Now, you apologize to Sweetness 'n Light for calling her that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LTL - So far, all they have found is that you used a plural, American*s*. At the time of your post, it was reported 23 Americans were on that plane. They did say it was unconfirmed. It was several hours later, before it was confirmed that it was less than originally reported.
> 
> Then, I think, Designer thought you were *nasty* because you said he at a fundraiser and you said nothing about the phone calls. Again at the time of your post, it was reported that he was going to the fundraisers. Phone calls were not mentioned. But it is a given that when the President is on Air force One he can reach anyone by phone.
> 
> The reason they have not answered you is that there is none and your statement was true.


Her statement was not true, since it didn't fit the facts. She may not have lied intentionally, but that's because she was premature. If she had waited to learn the truth, no one would have said anything against her. She hasn't even taken back that tiny "error," even though by now she knows the facts. She stills struts around daring us to find her lies. We will, but when we do, neither you nor she will admit it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You didn't answer my question either. I asked what was untrue in her statement. You added quite a bit that wasn't known until after her statement was posted. I only looked to see if you answered my question, since you did not I paid no attention to the rest.


Then, as usual, you missed her point.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

mlsolcz said:


> Totally agree with you!


With whom? You ought to use Quote Reply if you're replying to something posted.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

mlsolcz said:


> :thumbup:


There, you got it right. Sorry I got tough on you. Thanks for the thumbs up.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary wrote:
I've learned not to get into a 'who said what' debate. You twist and manipulate how many angels are dancing on a pin. Don't need it.

Designer said: I wish I was better at that!



Country Bumpkins said:


> You are great at that! :thumbdown:


Thanks CB -- I appreciate your input. I hope you are having a good day. :thumbup: ;-)


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops - duplicate post.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Stick with me, kid. Hugs. Your talents are needed elsewhere.


Thanks Dame: it goes on and on and on.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

another duplicate post -- sorry ladies.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


It is frustrating, isn't it? you are right. Sad that they don't give a darn how they look to the rest of the world. I am afraid it will come home to haunt them.

I am really sorry that you lost so many people in that plane. We lost a fine young man -- It is so tragic.

I hope that some how the people who shot that rocket will be found and punished, but from what seems to be happening today, and I am not sure it is confirmed although it was on the news, someone has found the black boxes but they won't turn them over to international authorities. The also have very few facilities to take care of the bodies. I hope Obama is not responsible for any of these problems. Be interesting to see if some of those on the right who blame him for everything can find a way to blame him.

Anyway -- it is overwhelmingly sad for all those survivors and the people who are trying to figure it out.

It seems one thing after another and it is getting worse and worse. Scary!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well ladies, I am going to take the afternoon away from the computer. We are going out with my Grand daughter for a shopping trip. I am not sure whether I will be back tonight or whether I will take a break. Have a couple of things to do on the workshops. Have fun everyone. See you later. Designer


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

maysmom said:


> There are just some people with whom intelligent conversation is impossible, and they seem to flash mob here.


What an absolutely perfect description of your group. Although flash mobs tend to disperse after awhile, yours seems to stay put.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

gjz said:


> If you go back through the posts, I did call them on their remarks. I am not hiding in fear...just choose to stay away.
> I don't come here because you won't like me. A friend pm'd me to let me know what your current topic was. Are you going to throw a canned ham at me?


That's a good one. I don't need to throw anything at anyone, especially one who "chooses to stay away," and I won't waste time riffling back through posts to ascertain just who you are. You have at least one friend, even if you keep it private. Kind of you to deduce that I wouldn't like you, but post on!!

And wouldn't that be a waste of a perfectly good ham??

:roll: :roll:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What an absolutely perfect description of your group. Although flash mobs tend to disperse after awhile, yours seems to stay put.


No need to play dumb, madam. While you might not be the leader of your flash mob, you're up there in the ranks. Bless your heart!
:twisted: :twisted:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Well ladies, I am going to take the afternoon away from the computer. We are going out with my Grand daughter for a shopping trip. I am not sure whether I will be back tonight or whether I will take a break. Have a couple of things to do on the workshops. Have fun everyone. See you later. Designer


Have fun!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Wish I was better at that.


Dancing on a pin? Straight pin, safety pin, cotter pin, roller pin, hatpin? C'mon, now, inquiring minds wanna know!

"Twisters" do it best on a flat surface. I was going to say "a level surface," but twisters are rarely on the level.

:-D :-D :-D :-D


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


Eve, much better to use your time and intelligence on other things. I doubt that Obama is losing much sleep over these posters or the rest of their milieu.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Give it a rest, please.
> 
> Honestly, are you still going on about Americans being murdered by the Russians in the Malaysian air disaster, even though it has been pointed out to you that only 1, that is ONE American was on the aeroplane. Australia lost 28 people, 7 came from Western Australia. Consider how many people live in the USA, 317 million as opposed to Australia, 22.68 million, and Western Australia 2.563 million? You can work out the percentages of population. Given our small population of 2.563 million, to love 7 citizens is a lot. Australia is not a tiny island either, Australia has a land mass equal to over 70% of the land mass of the USA.
> 
> Your last post about people with concrete filled brains????? Such a Christian comment????? You really should not judge others by yourself. You really are a very nasty person.


EveMCooke
I think that sometime ago she professed not to be a Christian. That gives her freedom to be very NASTY.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> LTL - So far, all they have found is that you used a plural, American*s*. At the time of your post, it was reported 23 Americans were on that plane. They did say it was unconfirmed. It was several hours later, before it was confirmed that it was less than originally reported.
> 
> Then, I think, Designer thought you were *nasty* because you said he at a fundraiser and you said nothing about the phone calls. Again at the time of your post, it was reported that he was going to the fundraisers. Phone calls were not mentioned. But it is a given that when the President is on Air force One he can reach anyone by phone.
> 
> The reason they have not answered you is that there is none and your statement was true.


joeysomma
we believe that you heard about 23 Americans being on that Plane, that is what you get when you listen to FAUX Entertainment. So sorry that your TV and Radio does not reach any farther.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Eve, much better to use your time and intelligence on other things. I doubt that Obama is losing much sleep over these posters or the rest of their milieu.


maysmom
I am SURE that President Obama pays no attention to these ill educated and hateful folks. He was smarter when 6 years old than these folks being over 60. Let them die dumb.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Give it a rest, please.
> 
> Honestly, are you still going on about Americans being murdered by the Russians in the Malaysian air disaster, even though it has been pointed out to you that only 1, that is ONE American was on the aeroplane. Australia lost 28 people, 7 came from Western Australia. Consider how many people live in the USA, 317 million as opposed to Australia, 22.68 million, and Western Australia 2.563 million? You can work out the percentages of population. Given our small population of 2.563 million, to love 7 citizens is a lot. Australia is not a tiny island either, Australia has a land mass equal to over 70% of the land mass of the USA.
> 
> Your last post about people with concrete filled brains????? Such a Christian comment????? You really should not judge others by yourself. You really are a very nasty person.


Australia is a continent.

So the one American that was murdered has less value than any other person murdered? So we should only by 1/300th as sad, and you get to be sadder because more Australians died?

They do have concrete for brains since nothing gets through it. Disagreeing with Obama has nothing to do with race. If that were the case, since Blacks are less than 20% of the population, he never could have won. But a true example of racism is Harry Reid having a temper tantrum over the Hobby Lobby law suit. He said 5 white men voted for the defense. Guess Justice Thomas isn't black enough for him. See race becomes an issue only when libs have nothing else to use to defend Obama's inability to be an effective president.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> "disagreeing" you call your stance toward the President? Now I understand that you do not understand what you are saying. Obviously your Teachers failed you miserably. Not a racist cell in or bodies, however great dislike for folks like you. Wonder why the irresponsible decisions made by Bush/Cheney did not wrinkle your bloomers. That administration's administrating cost hundred's of thousands of lives and debt for which we have to pay for at least another decade since it amounts to Trillions of our Tax Dollars. Don't worry, we will never forget the harm Bush/Cheney has done to us. BTW reverse the Dia., you got it backwards. Well, what can we expect.


Wish your post made more sense, but that is to be expected.

You ASSume that I did not disagree as vehemently with Bush on several issues. Do you know that is a fact? Well it is not. But I do remember that after 9/11 and Bush took actions he thought were right that we were not attacked again, no ambassadors were murdered, no terrorists shot down airplanes and so on. Guess Bush was doing his job and not at fundraisers......oh the good old days when presidents were proud of their country and not apologizing or moving lines in the sand.

Oh another assumption you make.................most of us are not over 60. And your comment reeks of distain for our seniors.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Australia is a continent.
> 
> So the one American that was murdered has less value than any other person murdered? So we should only by 1/300th as sad, and you get to be sadder because more Australians died?
> 
> They do have concrete for brains since nothing gets through it. Disagreeing with Obama has nothing to do with race. If that were the case, since Blacks are less than 20% of the population, he never could have won. But a true example of racism is Harry Reid having a temper tantrum over the Hobby Lobby law suit. He said 5 white men voted for the defense. Guess Justice Thomas isn't black enough for him. See race becomes an issue only when libs have nothing else to use to defend Obama's inability to be an effective president.


You know bloody well that Thomas is the "token" on the Supreme Court. He's called much worse by his fellow African Americans.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wish your post made more sense, but that is to be expected.
> 
> You ASSume that I did not disagree as vehemently with Bush on several issues. Do you know that is a fact? Well it is not. But I do remember that after 9/11 and Bush took actions he thought were right that we were not attacked again, no ambassadors were murdered, no terrorists shot down airplanes and so on. Guess Bush was doing his job and not at fundraisers......oh the good old days when presidents were proud of their country and not apologizing or moving lines in the sand.
> 
> Oh another assumption you make.................most of us are not over 60. And your comment reeks of distain for our seniors.


Bush's job was to rubber-stamp whatever his handlers put in front of him, or whatever daddy told him. That is not a job, that is puppetry. I am "senior" enough to know that.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Australia is a continent.
> 
> So the one American that was murdered has less value than any other person murdered? So we should only by 1/300th as sad, and you get to be sadder because more Australians died?
> 
> They do have concrete for brains since nothing gets through it. Disagreeing with Obama has nothing to do with race. If that were the case, since Blacks are less than 20% of the population, he never could have won. But a true example of racism is Harry Reid having a temper tantrum over the Hobby Lobby law suit. He said 5 white men voted for the defense. Guess Justice Thomas isn't black enough for him. See race becomes an issue only when libs have nothing else to use to defend Obama's inability to be an effective president.


here she goes again!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Wish your post made more sense, but that is to be expected.
> 
> You ASSume that I did not disagree as vehemently with Bush on several issues. Do you know that is a fact? Well it is not. But I do remember that after 9/11 and Bush took actions he thought were right that we were not attacked again, no ambassadors were murdered, no terrorists shot down airplanes and so on. Guess Bush was doing his job and not at fundraisers......oh the good old days when presidents were proud of their country and not apologizing or moving lines in the sand.
> 
> Oh another assumption you make.................most of us are not over 60. And your comment reeks of distain for our seniors.


lovethelakCheney
Yes, Bush/Cheney killed over 150thousand, they did a horrific job. And then there was Katrina. Disdain for our Seniors? Really? Where did I make such a statement? I guess lying is a must with every post of yours. My trouble is with people who grow old without having learned much. Age never bothers me, dumb does. I hope to grow VERY old. I love Seniors with a passion. 
I bet most of your group are over 60 or they had their children as teenagers, take your pick. No past President has ever stated as often how proud of his Country he is as President Obama. Interesting that you miss just about everything President Obama says and does. What is your problem? Faux Entertainment I guess.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Have fun!


We changed our minds - she said she would rather play checkers with Papa and go shopping some other time. I had a nice nap and have been reading just came back on for a minute.

It is a beautiful day here although we thought it was going to rain awhile ago. I just went out and checked she has won 3 games - legitimately!! he is very proud of her.

We are going to practice knitting later on. I sure will miss her but hopefully we will manage to get out and see her in BC.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> "disagreeing" you call your stance toward the President? Now I understand that you do not understand what you are saying. Obviously your Teachers failed you miserably. Not a racist cell in or bodies, however great dislike for folks like you. Wonder why the irresponsible decisions made by Bush/Cheney did not wrinkle your bloomers. That administration's administrating cost hundred's of thousands of lives and debt for which we have to pay for at least another decade since it amounts to Trillions of our Tax Dollars. Don't worry, we will never forget the harm Bush/Cheney has done to us. BTW reverse the Dia., you got it backwards. Well, what can we expect.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> you can bet on THEM reading every word we post, they just do not understand what we are saying. I think, they are "not allowed" to think, they have Masters who rule them. Perhaps they exist in modern day Slavery, which is quite common according to the latest Book of a former President.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> don't make yourself look dumber than we have learned you are. Perhaps you should stick to numbers rather than words and while you are at it, add up the cost of Bush/Cheney's miserable administrating. Don't forget to include the lives lost.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No way to tell whom you agree with. Use Quote Report or mention comment you wish to answer. It gets confusing around here.



mlsolcz said:


> Totally agree with you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> lovethalke
> spend a few bucks and get a Carpenter, you have some crews loose. Attacking President Obama re. the downed Airliner is pointing out your need for repairs.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Australia is a continent.
> 
> So the one American that was murdered has less value than any other person murdered? So we should only by 1/300th as sad, and you get to be sadder because more Australians died?
> 
> They do have concrete for brains since nothing gets through it. Disagreeing with Obama has nothing to do with race. If that were the case, since Blacks are less than 20% of the population, he never could have won. But a true example of racism is Harry Reid having a temper tantrum over the Hobby Lobby law suit. He said 5 white men voted for the defense. Guess Justice Thomas isn't black enough for him. See race becomes an issue only when libs have nothing else to use to defend Obama's inability to be an effective president.


lovethelake
"Australia is a Continent", now that is a brilliant statement. Did he really say: "5 white Men", if so, it was a slip of the tongue but I shall check that out just to make sure that this is not one of your many intentional false statements. You are so good with those.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It is frustrating, isn't it? you are right. Sad that they don't give a darn how they look to the rest of the world. I am afraid it will come home to haunt them.
> 
> I am really sorry that you lost so many people in that plane. We lost a fine young man -- It is so tragic.
> 
> ...


It is horrifying. Forensic evidence withheld. Bodies treated without respect. Placing blame.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Dancing on a pin? Straight pin, safety pin, cotter pin, roller pin, hatpin? C'mon, now, inquiring minds wanna know!
> 
> "Twisters" do it best on a flat surface. I was going to say "a level surface," but twisters are rarely on the level.
> 
> :-D :-D :-D :-D


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> You know bloody well that Thomas is the "token" on the Supreme Court. He's called much worse by his fellow African Americans.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Need to take a 2nd shower to cleanse myself from the stuff LTL is slinging. For a much as she has in reserve, it must stink in her surroundings. Gesuntheit.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes Sen Harry Reid made that comment.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/senate-democrats-take-on-supreme-courts-white-men-over-contraception-ruling/Senate Democrats Take on Supreme Courts White Men Over Contraception Ruling

Email684Smaller FontTextLarger Text|Print
By Arlette Saenz
@ArletteSaenz
Follow on Twitter
Jul 8, 2014 6:24pm
Senate Democrats said they plan to unveil legislation in the coming weeks in response to the Supreme Courts controversial ruling in the Hobby Lobby contraception case.
This Hobby Lobby decision is outrageous, and were going to do something about it, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told reporters on Capitol Hill today. People are going to have to walk down here and vote, and if they vote with the five men on the Supreme Court, I think its  theyre going to have  be treated unfavorably come November with the elections.
READ: Hobby Lobby Wins Contraceptive Ruling in Supreme Court
Reid said the Senate needed to do something to ensure that womens lives are not determined by virtue of five white men.
In a 5-4 decision last week, the Supreme Court ruled that for-profit companies with religious objections did not need to pay for contraception for their employees.
But Reids reference to five white men is actually incorrect, as it was four white men  Chief Justice John Roberts, Justice Samuel Alito, Justice Antonin Scalia, and Justice Anthony Kennedy  and one African American, Justice Clarence Thomas, who sided with Hobby Lobby in the case.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Need to take a 2nd shower to cleanse myself from the stuff LTL is slinging. For a much as she has in reserve, it must stink in her surroundings. Gesuntheit.


Maybe she counsels Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann. They all sound alike and make no sense.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go Harry and Company. Make them prove what they plan to do with women's lives.....and deal with the consequences in the next election.



sjrNC said:


> Yes Sen Harry Reid made that comment.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/senate-democrats-take-on-supreme-courts-white-men-over-contraception-ruling/Senate Democrats Take on Supreme Courts White Men Over Contraception Ruling
> 
> ...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Eve, much better to use your time and intelligence on other things. I doubt that Obama is losing much sleep over these posters or the rest of their milieu.


I doubt he is even aware of D and P.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> *Yes, Bush/Cheney killed over 150thousand ???????*


Actually, I thought it was more than that - the war they started seemed to go on forever. There were also so many who were tragically injured - and now many are suffering with PTSD.

Such a shame.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet NSA is aware.



Designer1234 said:


> I doubt he is even aware of D and P.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What an absolutely perfect description of your group. Although flash mobs tend to disperse after awhile, yours seems to stay put.


I love flash mobs. Maybe we could really have one! Right on Solo - we aren't going to disperse -- Don't doubt that.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> "Australia is a Continent", now that is a brilliant statement. Did he really say: "5 white Men", if so, it was a slip of the tongue but I shall check that out just to make sure that this is not one of your many intentional false statements. You are so good with those.


I can see a connection here. Austrailia is both a continent and a country AND it could be that the POTUS and that member of the SCOTUS are both "both" as well. 
Couldn't Clarence Thomas be caucasion in some portion? 
Maybe Harry Reid knows something we don't know?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> I bet NSA is aware.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:
 

> Maybe she counsels Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann. They all sound alike and make no sense.


They are real fans of Sarah Palin - they praise her to the skies. To each his own.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I could do better at that also, but at the moment I am more than a little hot under the collar because these two posters are using this disaster to attack their President. They are deliberately misinterpreting facts. The old statement about the inability of some people to even lie straight in bed springs to mind. But I will let it slide here as they will continue to only read and see what they want to see. They will never let the facts get in the way of a good slamming of their President.


Eve - this has been going on long before he was first elected. They decided that he was a 'threat to them' and a goodly percentage of Republicans made it clear to all the country (and the rest of the world) that they would do everything they could to make sure he could not keep any of his promises and that they would make sure he failed at all he was trying to do. You would find it interesting if you went back to the beginning of these threads, before he was even elected. They are still trying to do that. And, by the way, it has nothing to do with race. (In some cases I believe that) but for those who are the most rabid - I just don't buy it.

They will never accept anything he does, even what he eats for breakfast if they knew. There would be something wrong with that. It doesn't matter whether it is realistic or not.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> They are real fans of Sarah Palin - they praise her to the skies. To each his own.


Well, that explains pretty damn near everything.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Yes Sen Harry Reid made that comment.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/senate-democrats-take-on-supreme-courts-white-men-over-contraception-ruling/Senate Democrats Take on Supreme Courts White Men Over Contraception Ruling
> 
> ...


sjrNC
thank you for posting it. It still does not speak of racism, or does it?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> At the end of 2008, Coalition forces casualties in Iraq were 4539; Afghanistan 1049.
> 
> Total through 2013: Iraq was 4804.
> 
> Afghanistan 3460 including 51 in 2014.


And these aren't enough for you?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> At the end of 2008, Coalition forces casualties in Iraq were 4539; Afghanistan 1049.
> 
> Total through 2013: Iraq was 4804.
> 
> Afghanistan 3460 including 51 in 2014.


joeysomma 
so the over 150thousand mostly civilians killed do not count? Only the Soldiers killed? I guess only certain lives have value for you. Shame on you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Harry Reid has already lost this.


joeysomma
he has? I guess I missed that one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Maybe she counsels Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann. They all sound alike and make no sense.


maysmom
a "funny" world these folks live in.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> a "funny" world these folks live in.


More like "insane."


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Actually, I thought it was more than that - the war they started seemed to go on forever. There were also so many who were tragically injured - and now many are suffering with PTSD.
> 
> Such a shame.


Designer1234
Yes nearly 40 thousand badly injured and many maimed for Life. Wonder why joeysomma wants to "bury" those secretly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I can see a connection here. Austrailia is both a continent and a country AND it could be that the POTUS and that member of the SCOTUS are both "both" as well.
> Couldn't Clarence Thomas be caucasion in some portion?
> Maybe Harry Reid knows something we don't know?


Knitanon
you may be on to something.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> sjrNC
> thank you for posting it. It still does not speak of racism, or does it?


Guess that depends on your thinking or how you feel about the person who said it. 5 justices made the ruling based on their interpretation of a law passed during the Clinton administration and the constitution.

The same justices agreed with the 4 others on a ruling 9-0 that the president had made unauthorized/illegal recess appointments. Not a lot of comments about that.

As always, statements made by people are judged based on your feelings about the person. Some you give a pass to and others it will follow them to grave and beyond.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> More like "insane."


maysmom
Funny Farms is where the insane reside and where M. Bachmann is the Head Mistress and S. Palin her right hand. I think McCain is reserving some space there together with A. West. These guys sure are bouncing off the wall all the time and are ripe for the Bin.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Guess that depends on your thinking or how you feel about the person who said it. 5 justices made the ruling based on their interpretation of a law passed during the Clinton administration and the constitution.
> 
> The same justices agreed with the 4 others on a ruling 9-0 that the president had made unauthorized/illegal recess appointments. Not a lot of comments about that.
> 
> As always, statements made by people are judged based on your feelings about the person. Some you give a pass to and others it will follow them to grave and beyond.


sjrNC
I do agree with you in part.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What point are you trying to make? I'm trying to follow you.



joeysomma said:


> At the end of 2008, Coalition forces casualties in Iraq were 4539; Afghanistan 1049.
> 
> Total through 2013: Iraq was 4804.
> 
> Afghanistan 3460 including 51 in 2014.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh yeah. I think I'll have a snack.



joeysomma said:


> posted on Hobby Lobby
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-269622-52.html#5699523


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Numbers alone never tell all the answers. Personally, I think examining the lives of a few soldiers and their family's changes give us the best examples.



joeysomma said:


> Huck said more than 150thousnd killed by Bush/Cheney. Not even close. Wonder where she got the number. If she can make a statement like that she should be able to prove it. I provided a website for my numbers.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I 'visited' D and P and lurked for a little while for the first time for a long time, and that is when I read the praise for Sarah Palin . I also read that Yarnie's father has passed away. I pm'd her when I heard he was ill, and i also posted on D and p. However she didn't reply. I have not problem with that. However, 

I know that there are lurkers here from D and P. Please pass on to Yarnie that I am sorry that her Father has passed on. I know it has been a very hard time for her.

I nearly posted there but I have been told am not welcome and I don't have any interest in causing her more trouble or upset.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> Funny Farms is where the insane reside and where M. Bachmann is the Head Mistress and S. Palin her right hand. I think McCain is reserving some space there together with A. West. These guys sure are bouncing off the wall all the time and are ripe for the Bin.


Sounds like quite a delightful place to visit, eh?

:roll: :shock: :roll: :shock: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I 'visited' D and P and lurked for a little while for the first time for a long time, and that is when I read the praise for Sarah Palin . I also read that Yarnie's father has past away. I pm'd her when I heard he was ill, and i also posted on D and p. However she didn't reply. I have not problem with that. However,
> 
> I know that there are lurkers here from D and P. Please pass on to Yarnie that I am sorry that her Father has passed on. I know it has been a very hard time for her.
> 
> I nearly posted there but I have been told am not welcome and I don't have any interest in causing her more trouble or upset.


It's kind of you to offer condolences, Shirley. As for D & P, the "P" stands for "piranhas." No sense in wading into that water!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> What point are you trying to make? I'm trying to follow you.


How many American troops died and how many were injured Joey? And of those who returned, how many are suffering from PTSD?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> It's kind of you to offer condolences, Shirley. As for D & P, the "P" stands for "piranhas." No sense in wading into that water!!


I have no intention of posting there . I am free to lurk but rarely do. Actually I was wondering how Yarnie's dad was. Not sure why, but she was hurting. I don't need any 
of their 'welcome' . It is bad enough here. They manage to call me enough names here. They will continue to do so but that is okay. I am not going to stop posting when I feel like it.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> At the end of 2008, Coalition forces casualties in Iraq were 4539; Afghanistan 1049.
> 
> Total through 2013: Iraq was 4804.
> 
> Afghanistan 3460 including 51 in 2014.


Would your point be that those who lived in the invaded countries, who were shot, killed, tortured, and abused were not real people?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

serendipetty said:


> You're purposly missing the point which is that Bush/Cheney are responsible for those deaths no matter the EXACT number. Including the deaths by fellow Iraquis in the aftermath of the Bush/Cheney invasion.


Yes, indeed.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I 'visited' D and P and lurked for a little while for the first time for a long time, and that is when I read the praise for Sarah Palin . I also read that Yarnie's father has passed away. I pm'd her when I heard he was ill, and i also posted on D and p. However she didn't reply. I have not problem with that. However,
> 
> I know that there are lurkers here from D and P. Please pass on to Yarnie that I am sorry that her Father has passed on. I know it has been a very hard time for her.
> 
> I nearly posted there but I have been told am not welcome and I don't have any interest in causing her more trouble or upset.


According to Admin, everyone is welcome in ALL of the open forum threads.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I can see a connection here. Austrailia is both a continent and a country AND it could be that the POTUS and that member of the SCOTUS are both "both" as well.
> Couldn't Clarence Thomas be caucasion in some portion?
> Maybe Harry Reid knows something we don't know?


There's "white" as in skin color, and there's "white" as in self-concept.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> At the end of 2008, Coalition forces casualties in Iraq were 4539; Afghanistan 1049.
> 
> Total through 2013: Iraq was 4804.
> 
> Afghanistan 3460 including 51 in 2014.


What are you trying to prove, that you know copy-and-paste? There were civilians killed, too, or don't they count?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's "white" as in skin color, and there's "white" as in self-concept.


Yes, indeed, there is. I have no doubt, though I cannot read his mind, that Harry Reid misspoke. It's really no big deal, sort of like 57 states, any number of "Bushisms", whatever silly things McCain has said and that Mrs. Palin and Mrs. Bachmann continue to say.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

serendipetty said:


> You don't merely "disagree" with Obama, your irrational seething hatred is palpable and not as difficult to see as you think it is.
> 
> Yes, MOST of your disrespect for Obama is racist and you're not fooling anyone.


I think they're fooling themselves - into thinking they're just really nice good-old girls who couldn't possibly be racist just because. (I also think they've fooled themselves into thinking they're still young. It seems to be very important to LTL to say they are, but every time I see that picture of KnitCrazy and DH, I know they're wrong.)


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The ham came from Galinipper, one of the D&P crowd. She's the one you'll have to watch out for.
> 
> I wonder why you think we won't like you. For myself, as long as you don't preach to us, and have something interesting to say once in a while, I'd be happy to hear a new voice. As long as it's telling the truth. It's the lies and conspiracy theories and preaching that are offensive.


I'm sorry, but in my opinion you think anything you disagree with is a lie or a conspiracy theory. New ideas are not welcome.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, the point is where was the number "150thousand" found?


Here's a source; I don't know whether it was Huck's: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War . These numbers end, I think, in 2011, so are probably on the low side (esp. since ISIS has arrived). But 150,000 is certainly within possibility.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Huck said there were more than 150thousand killed. Where did she find that number? I gave the reference for Coalition causalities. If you want more search.
> 
> I don't think she will be able to find and post it, as I cannot remember her ever posting a website. If she does I will be pleasantly surprised.


http://costsofwar.org/article/civilians-killed-and-wounded
http://www.scribd.com/doc/48447980/Iraq-The-Human-Cost-of-the-War-Web-Archive
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/The_Afghan_Body_Count_999.html
http://www.conflictandhealth.com/content/2/1/1


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> According to Admin, everyone is welcome in ALL of the open forum threads.


Certainly everyone is permitted, but in this case I think "welcome" is an overstatement.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> We changed our minds - she said she would rather play checkers with Papa and go shopping some other time. I had a nice nap and have been reading just came back on for a minute.
> 
> It is a beautiful day here although we thought it was going to rain awhile ago. I just went out and checked she has won 3 games - legitimately!! he is very proud of her.
> 
> We are going to practice knitting later on. I sure will miss her but hopefully we will manage to get out and see her in BC.


Isn't being a grandma just the best thing in the world?!?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but in my opinion you think anything you disagree with is a lie or a conspiracy theory. New ideas are not welcome.


I realize you believe that, based on the ideas you tried to offer us. As a few of us said in messages you probably never read, those ideas were not new. They keep fading and then cropping up again, so maybe you've never seen them before, but many go back to the 80's and some even to the 50's. I haven't the energy to re-fight old wars.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> http://costsofwar.org/article/civilians-killed-and-wounded
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/48447980/Iraq-The-Human-Cost-of-the-War-Web-Archive
> http://www.spacewar.com/reports/The_Afghan_Body_Count_999.html
> http://www.conflictandhealth.com/content/2/1/1


Somebody did her homework. There's some interesting material (and the first one made me very sad) in each of these.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Would your point be that those who lived in the invaded countries, who were shot, killed, tortured, and abused were not real people?


Maybe not. They'd already been born.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, the point is where was the number "150thousand" found?


That isn't the point, the point is that thousands and thousands of people were hurt or killed by that war which was started on a lie. Civilians and American troops. Some of those who managed to live through the war as still paying a price. don't knit pick.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe not. They'd already been born.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Huck's number of 150thousand killed is unreasonable. Where did she find it?
> 
> War will kill many innocent people each one of them is precious in God's sight. One innocent person is one to many.
> 
> If she is unable to prove the number, I guess, I will not be able to believe any of her statements.


Joey - what number do you say?? You know there were thousands who died and were wounded in that war. Once again you are playing games. Ignore the fact that Bush started that war on a lie. no one of your political belief wants to acknowledge that, so lets play games with the numbers. It was a huge number, and you know it. I am amazed you don't Blame Obama, I am sure that LTL will find a way to twist it so that he is responsible for that war too.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Guess that depends on your thinking or how you feel about the person who said it. 5 justices made the ruling based on their interpretation of a law passed during the Clinton administration and the constitution.
> 
> The same justices agreed with the 4 others on a ruling 9-0 that the president had made unauthorized/illegal recess appointments. Not a lot of comments about that.
> 
> As always, statements made by people are judged based on your feelings about the person. Some you give a pass to and others it will follow them to grave and beyond.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup:


Hi CB!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I realize you believe that, based on the ideas you tried to offer us. As a few of us said in messages you probably never read, those ideas were not new. They keep fading and then cropping up again, so maybe you've never seen them before, but many go back to the 80's and some even to the 50's. I haven't the energy to re-fight old wars.


So who wants to fight wars? We can't have a discussion without somebody winning? I've heard you say the same things over and over too. Nothing is new! I've been following things without commenting for a few days now. Do any of you even look where this goes? Its a sad example of humanity. Why can't people exchange ideas without wallowing around in the mud? Why can't anyone just say, "I disagree"? Why does every discussion have to devolve to hurling or repeating insults?

I count many of you on both sides of the aisle as friends. But I've never had friends before who treated others this way. It saddens me and sickens me. How did we get this way? Why do we take such pleasure in being right that we end up being wrong? Just let people have their say. Agree or disagree. Rebut or don't. There is nothing to be gained from what goes on here. Except self satisfaction that comes from lowering ourselves further than those with whom we disagree. We should all take a look in the mirror. Our words are reflected right back at us.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If it was a lie, more than 90% of the Congress believed it. All of Congress who voted for it are as guilty, or more so, than Bush. Congress voted, Bush agreed. There were more than enough votes to over ride a veto, so why should he veto it.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how our government works?


They believed it because they believed your President and Cheney??? is that a possibility?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Does that translate to "Hardball(s) to centerfield??!!"
> 
> I know, I know, it's late.
> 
> :twisted: :twisted:


Gevalt is sort of a direct equivalent of "Oh, Jesus" but without any religious connotation. Just happens the language is Yiddish. There are some comments where Yiddish seems to have the perfect irreplaceable word.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

gjz said:


> If you go back through the posts, I did call them on their remarks. I am not hiding in fear...just choose to stay away.
> I don't come here because you won't like me. A friend pm'd me to let me know what your current topic was. Are you going to throw a canned ham at me?


Just admiring and envying your gorgeous tulips. I can't grow them here as the deer love to eat them.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LTL - So far, all they have found is that you used a plural, American*s*. At the time of your post, it was reported 23 Americans were on that plane. They did say it was unconfirmed. It was several hours later, before it was confirmed that it was less than originally reported.
> 
> Then, I think, Designer thought you were *nasty* because you said he at a fundraiser and you said nothing about the phone calls. Again at the time of your post, it was reported that he was going to the fundraisers. Phone calls were not mentioned. But it is a given that when the President is on Air force One he can reach anyone by phone.
> 
> The reason they have not answered you is that there is none and your statement was true.


Well, you birds flock together and enjoy your biased little attacks. Ho hum.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If it was a lie, more than 90% of the Congress believed it. All of Congress who voted for it are as guilty, or more so, than Bush. Congress voted, Bush agreed. There were more than enough votes to over ride a veto, so why should he veto it.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how our government works?


You don't have to be snippy about it. The idea originated in the administration, which then lobbied Congress to vote in favor of it (_that's_ how our government works), and it got much of Congress to do so by telling lies about WMD's and Iraq's ties to al-Qaida and by forcing the international weapons inspectors to leave before they had completed their work. They even had Colin Powell lie to the UN about nuclear weapons and anthrax. But just because they fooled a lot of the people that one time doesn't make them less responsible for the consequences.

Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how morality works?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Actually, I thought it was more than that - the war they started seemed to go on forever. There were also so many who were tragically injured - and now many are suffering with PTSD.
> 
> Such a shame.


There has been many, many postings giving estimates of people killed since the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Whilst less than 7,000 were American military personnel the number of civilians killed as a result of the invasions is staggering. These deaths are due to

a direct result of the invasion by foreign forces
sectarian unrest as a result of the invasion. There certainly has not been peace in those countries since the invasion.
as well as
those killed assisting the foreign invaders 
and 
those killed assisting in military action against both the foreign invaders and those who were fighting against the foreign invaders.

There is plenty of evidence on the net, and from a variety of sources. Some of the sources may be doubtful but not all the sources. These sources give estimates and they are staggering. There does not seem to be an end in sight for all this continued violence.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What an absolutely perfect description of your group. Although flash mobs tend to disperse after awhile, yours seems to stay put.


There one of them goes again misunderstanding the reference. And she flashes on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So who wants to fight wars? We can't have a discussion without somebody winning? I've heard you say the same things over and over too. Nothing is new! I've been following things without commenting for a few days now. Do any of you even look where this goes? Its a sad example of humanity. Why can't people exchange ideas without wallowing around in the mud? Why can't anyone just say, "I disagree"? Why does every discussion have to devolve to hurling or repeating insults?
> 
> I count many of you on both sides of the aisle as friends. But I've never had friends before who treated others this way. It saddens me and sickens me. How did we get this way? Why do we take such pleasure in being right that we end up being wrong? Just let people have their say. Agree or disagree. Rebut or don't. There is nothing to be gained from what goes on here. Except self satisfaction that comes from lowering ourselves further than those with whom we disagree. We should all take a look in the mirror. Our words are reflected right back at us.


Wow! You've given this a lot of thought, and you're right. It's just that it's never worked here (as opposed to real life or other forums) to say "I disagree" and have it end there.

You've said a lot to make me think. I hope it makes me grow up, too.

Has mil moved to her home yet, or are you still mom-sitting?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There one of them goes again misunderstanding the reference. And she flashes on.


Okay, Marilyn, you've gone far enough. The thought of RW flashers is more than I can bear (or bare?).


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow! You've given this a lot of thought, and you're right. It's just that it's never worked here (as opposed to real life or other forums) to say "I disagree" and have it end there.
> 
> You've said a lot to make me think. I hope it makes me grow up, too.
> 
> Has mil moved to her home yet, or are you still mom-sitting?


I wish it would work too. It has been this way since before the President was even elected. Lots of water under the bridge. Welcome back, by the way. Join us on NB. I am going there as I have had enough here at least for now. I too hope she is in her own place and you have some time to yourself. It has been a heavy time for you. I hope it is sorting itself out or already has.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> It is horrifying. Forensic evidence withheld. Bodies treated without respect. Placing blame.


Apparently the people responsible for this horrible disaster are stone walling the investigation. They realize they did something unimaginably dreadful and are trying to bluff their way out of responsibility. President Obama nailed it in commenting where the ultimate responsibility lay. Same situation as the gunslinger dad who leaves his guns laying around and ends up with a 5 year old shooting a 6 year old.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> he has? I guess I missed that one.


Unfortunately there were not enough sensible votes to get the proposal passed. Let us hope after the next election we will get rid of some of the obstructionists and have a more people friendly legislature.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> More like "insane."


Alternate universe.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, the point is where was the number "150thousand" found?


You miss the point to such a degree. It is immaterial the exact number. One life lost because of the cupidity of warmongerers is one life too many. 
The power hungry who start the wars, then accuse those who are forced to defend themselves as being murderers are guilty for all the lives lost because there is war, either declared or guerrilla. You nit pick for exact facts when the essence of the situation transcends the numeric details. And too bad if you don't quite get what I am saying. I refuse to dumb down my vocabulary to accommodate you.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> According to Admin, everyone is welcome in ALL of the open forum threads.


Of course. But it seemed to be the same situation as city streets being accessible to all the people. But you don't wander into gang turf if you can help yourself. And we do have some much more pleasant neighborhoods in this community where there are much more compatible people.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow! You've given this a lot of thought, and you're right. It's just that it's never worked here (as opposed to real life or other forums) to say "I disagree" and have it end there.
> 
> You've said a lot to make me think. I hope it makes me grow up, too.
> 
> Has mil moved to her home yet, or are you still mom-sitting?


Thank you!
Mil is in her new home but has many needs. She usually calls twice a day and I've had to take her to several appointments, drs etc... It usually takes a minimum of four hours for every outing. I know, I know, it shouldn't take four hours to go to the doctor. But I have to get to her house and lead her out to the car. Then get the steps hubby made to get her into the car (its a minivan, she needs steps to get in and out), put the walker in the car, put the steps in the car and drive. Then I have to stop in front of wherever we are, get the steps out, get the walker out, get her out, put the steps away and go park the car. Then she walks like a turtle and has to go to the bathroom everywhere we go. The bathroom alone takes 25 minutes. Then we repeat the whole process at each stop, which also includes lunch at Village Inn because she likes breakfast for lunch. Today, we'd planned on taking her to the grocery store at 10 AM and somehow we ended up with her all day. She just left about a half hour ago. Hubby had the privilege today. This next week I only have to take her for a perm, so hopefully it won't be too bad. I gonna drop her off and go to the bookstore. My hairdresser will be a captive audience. Haha! The week after that were going to be gone, vacation. Yay! But the week after that she's got several things already set up. :-( I know that I should be nicer about it. And I really am nice to her. She has no idea how much she is driving me crazy. Somehow, I will survive. Thanks for letting me vent. I didn't mean to write a book. I just got carried away. I'm trying to be better. Really!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I wish it would work too. It has been this way since before the President was even elected. Lots of water under the bridge. Welcome back, by the way. Join us on NB. I am going there as I have had enough here at least for now. I too hope she is in her own place and you have some time to yourself. It has been a heavy time for you. I hope it is sorting itself out or already has.


Thanks, Shirley! 
I needed to be away. I'd just had too much of everything. I'm feeling better now. I missed everybody but obviously I didn't miss much here. :lol:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You didn't say they were civilians. How many of these were killed by their own countrymen? You will need to provide a website to prove it.
> 
> http://icasualties.org/ to prove my numbers.


joeysomma
accept the War Crimes Bush/Cheney committed. YES, over 150thousand people plus the thousands of our soldiers were killed. These death cannot be denied no matter how hard you try. I say it again 150thousand. For what? Oil and Greed!!!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

serendipetty said:


> That's OK. Any post that contains truth and facts above a kindergarden level tends to discombobulate you. We're used to your obtunsness. Just not obliged to constantly spoonfeed your disbled development.


serendietty
B I N G O.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

serendipetty said:


> Clarence is the whitest male chauvanist on the court, I don't think that's much of a secret quite frankly.


serendipetty
it isn't. Too bad that Miss Hill got the shaft.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you!
> Mil is in her new home but has many needs. She usually calls twice a day and I've had to take her to several appointments, drs etc... It usually takes a minimum of four hours for every outing. I know, I know, it shouldn't take four hours to go to the doctor. But I have to get to her house and lead her out to the car. Then get the steps hubby made to get her into the car (its a minivan, she needs steps to get in and out), put the walker in the car, put the steps in the car and drive. Then I have to stop in front of wherever we are, get the steps out, get the walker out, get her out, put the steps away and go park the car. Then she walks like a turtle and has to go to the bathroom everywhere we go. The bathroom alone takes 25 minutes. Then we repeat the whole process at each stop, which also includes lunch at Village Inn because she likes breakfast for lunch. Today, we'd planned on taking her to the grocery store at 10 AM and somehow we ended up with her all day. She just left about a half hour ago. Hubby had the privilege today. This next week I only have to take her for a perm, so hopefully it won't be too bad. I gonna drop her off and go to the bookstore. My hairdresser will be a captive audience. Haha! The week after that were going to be gone, vacation. Yay! But the week after that she's got several things already set up. :-( I know that I should be nicer about it. And I really am nice to her. She has no idea how much she is driving me crazy. Somehow, I will survive. Thanks for letting me vent. I didn't mean to write a book. I just got carried away. I'm trying to be better. Really!


When my MIL was still living on her own, for many years after my FIL passed she was able to take the bus on the corner to go to her appointments. By the time she was about 85 it became hard for her. She was about 2 hours from us in D's home town, so they set up a system where she made her doctor appointments on a schedule, every two weeks usually on a Wednesday, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. D drove up, took her to the first one, then out to lunch, then the second one, then the grocery. His trip cost a tank of gas and about $15 in tolls as well as the time driving. It was the heavy traffic in the area that caused it to take so long. He was retired and I was still working. But even if I had the time to go with him, it was better if she had him to herself. She hadn't fully accepted me as part of the family until she was in assisted living and medicated to treat her bipolar condition.

You have my admiration for doing all this. I know it has to be done, but you are such a good daughter to her nonetheless. Just you and your husband be observant making sure she turns off the water and the stove, is steady on her feet, and is rational. It took D a while to realize it was no longer safe for his mom to be on her own.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> No, the point is where was the number "150thousand" found?


joeysomma
in public records. Go look. You would be smart not to keep bringing it up since yes, 150thousand died due to Bush/Cheney's Wars.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Shirley!
> I needed to be away. I'd just had too much of everything. I'm feeling better now. I missed everybody but obviously I didn't miss much here. :lol:


I am starting to need a break -- It has not been very pleasant around here. I am going to stay on NB most of the time. I am glad she is in her own place. tough time for both of you. Vent all you want.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So who wants to fight wars? We can't have a discussion without somebody winning? I've heard you say the same things over and over too. Nothing is new! I've been following things without commenting for a few days now. Do any of you even look where this goes? Its a sad example of humanity. Why can't people exchange ideas without wallowing around in the mud? Why can't anyone just say, "I disagree"? Why does every discussion have to devolve to hurling or repeating insults?
> 
> I count many of you on both sides of the aisle as friends. But I've never had friends before who treated others this way. It saddens me and sickens me. How did we get this way? Why do we take such pleasure in being right that we end up being wrong? Just let people have their say. Agree or disagree. Rebut or don't. There is nothing to be gained from what goes on here. Except self satisfaction that comes from lowering ourselves further than those with whom we disagree. We should all take a look in the mirror. Our words are reflected right back at us.


KFB try away, I tried for the first two years, left for awhile and have come to the conclusion that there is so much water under the bridge that until a few of those who don't want to quit change their mind it isn't going to happen.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, indeed, there is. I have no doubt, though I cannot read his mind, that Harry Reid misspoke. It's really no big deal, sort of like 57 states, any number of "Bushisms", whatever silly things McCain has said and that Mrs. Palin and Mrs. Bachmann continue to say.


knitanon
I am VERY sure Harry Reid had a slip of the tongue. Of course that only happens to the Liberals. Well, I take that back, G.W. Bush was a Master at that. In addition, isn't McCain just about every time he speaks now, walking back from it the next time he shows his puss on the screen?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Apparently the people responsible for this horrible disaster are stone walling the investigation. They realize they did something unimaginably dreadful and are trying to bluff their way out of responsibility. President Obama nailed it in commenting where the ultimate responsibility lay. Same situation as the gunslinger dad who leaves his guns laying around and ends up with a 5 year old shooting a 6 year old.


The more I hear our news them more I wonder if they did it deliberately. It sounds as if our reporters who are talking to the citizens and are right at the scene,feel more and more that it was deliberate and that it was known to be an airliner. Scary -- I wonder if we will ever know. not likely.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> If it was a lie, more than 90% of the Congress believed it. All of Congress who voted for it are as guilty, or more so, than Bush. Congress voted, Bush agreed. There were more than enough votes to over ride a veto, so why should he veto it.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how our government works?


joeysmma
"IF IT WAS A LIE"? It was a lie. Just about everyone but a hand full of charlatans knew it was a lie - a monsterous lie -. We have learned in the meantime that lying came easy for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and they even deceived Gen. Colin Powell. Again Madam joeysomma: IT WAS A LIE of grand proportions.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So who wants to fight wars? We can't have a discussion without somebody winning? I've heard you say the same things over and over too. Nothing is new! I've been following things without commenting for a few days now. Do any of you even look where this goes? Its a sad example of humanity. Why can't people exchange ideas without wallowing around in the mud? Why can't anyone just say, "I disagree"? Why does every discussion have to devolve to hurling or repeating insults?
> 
> I count many of you on both sides of the aisle as friends. But I've never had friends before who treated others this way. It saddens me and sickens me. How did we get this way? Why do we take such pleasure in being right that we end up being wrong? Just let people have their say. Agree or disagree. Rebut or don't. There is nothing to be gained from what goes on here. Except self satisfaction that comes from lowering ourselves further than those with whom we disagree. We should all take a look in the mirror. Our words are reflected right back at us.


Knitter from Nebraska
I stand behind everything I posted.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysmma
> "IF IT WAS A LIE"? It was a lie. Just about everyone but a hand full of charlatans knew it was a lie - a monsterous lie -. We have learned in the meantime that lying came easy for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and they even deceived Gen. Colin Powell. Again Madam joeysomma: IT WAS A LIE of grand proportions.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> When my MIL was still living on her own, for many years after my FIL passed she was able to take the bus on the corner to go to her appointments. By the time she was about 85 it became hard for her. She was about 2 hours from us in D's home town, so they set up a system where she made her doctor appointments on a schedule, every two weeks usually on a Wednesday, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. D drove up, took her to the first one, then out to lunch, then the second one, then the grocery. His trip cost a tank of gas and about $15 in tolls as well as the time driving. It was the heavy traffic in the area that caused it to take so long. He was retired and I was still working. But even if I had the time to go with him, it was better if she had him to herself. She hadn't fully accepted me as part of the family until she was in assisted living and medicated to treat her bipolar condition.
> 
> You have my admiration for doing all this. I know it has to be done, but you are such a good daughter to her nonetheless. Just you and your husband be observant making sure she turns off the water and the stove, is steady on her feet, and is rational. It took D a while to realize it was no longer safe for his mom to be on her own.


I guess I shouldn't complain. I only have to drive 5 or 10 minutes to get her. I can't even imagine doing that if she were two hours away. All of our trips are nearby too. But the best thing of all is the silence when I'm home alone! She NEVER stops talking! Since my kids grew up and moved out, I've become very comfortable with peace and quiet. Please don't admire me. I'm just doing what needs to be done. Anyone in my position would do it. I've got the best husband in the world and I would do anything for him. He knows what I'm going through and appreciates it greatly. He also tells me to leave it to him but if I did, I'd never get to spend any time with him. So I'll continue to slog on through it. Next week, I'll have him all to myself. Dil will take on mil duties. By the way, BOTH daughters in law have been visiting her at least once a week so that takes the pressure off of me. It's much appreciated.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I would think a "smart" person could answer a simple question. But then I can not remember you ever providing a website to show how you found a statistic.
> 
> You need to include Hillary in that war, as she voted for it. But not Obama, since I believe he gave his usual answer when it was time to vote. "Present."


joeysomma
glad you keep harping on numbers so I can post the latest numbers gathered in a study in March, the number has increased to 190.000 killed as a direct result of the Bush/Cheney Wars and the cost at that point = 2.2 Trillion and rising. BTW do your own homework, I do mine because I like to keep learning and see what I learned because you refuse to?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> KFB try away, I tried for the first two years, left for awhile and have come to the conclusion that there is so much water under the bridge that until a few of those who don't want to quit change their mind it isn't going to happen.


It's up to each individual, whether to participate or let it go. It's that competitive spirit in each of us that wants to win, to have the last word. But that's not the best part of who we are! I've seen the best part of everyone on here. Truly, I have! Those are the ones I long to talk to, to share with. Each of us can own our own part of the problem, and each of us can change it. Even if we say we don't care, it hurts when someone says something mean or disparages us. I don't want to be the person that hurts someone else because it hurts me also. It changes who we are. We all see ourselves as people who care, who make a difference. But we're not acting like it. How much good does it take to cancel out the bad?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I stand behind everything I posted.


Yup! You can be right, and still be wrong.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> The more I hear our news them more I wonder if they did it deliberately. It sounds as if our reporters who are talking to the citizens and are right at the scene,feel more and more that it was deliberate and that it was known to be an airliner. Scary -- I wonder if we will ever know. not likely.


Designer1234
It is hard for me to believe that this was a mere mistaken identity. Someone wanted to show what power they have.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yup! You can be right, and still be wrong.


knitter== It has to come from both sides. Do you think for a minute you can convince LTL, or Joey, or KPG or Solo? I am willing to quit and always have been if they would. I wish it could happen, We don't go there and attack them. they come here where we are having discussions. I realize that Joey thinks this is 'her' spot but why doesn't she post her posts where the group would agree with her? This doesn't belong to her. It belongs to KP. We don't go to D and P, anymore - but that doesn't stop them from coming here and attacking. It isn't going to happen. Too much water under the bridge -- too many lies, and insults.

Anyway, I am going over to NB. talk to you all later.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> The more I hear our news them more I wonder if they did it deliberately. It sounds as if our reporters who are talking to the citizens and are right at the scene,feel more and more that it was deliberate and that it was known to be an airliner. Scary -- I wonder if we will ever know. not likely.


I hope it was a mistake made by bumbling pro-Russian separatists who didn't know what the heck they were doing. I saw on the news tonight that the few guards at the site were drunk and obnoxious. The wreckage, bodies, and belongings of the victims were just lying around and almost anyone could have access to the area.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> It is hard for me to believe that this was a mere mistaken identity. Someone wanted to show what power they have.


I agree Huck. I think they were rogues, not sure that Putin knew but he gave them the missiles. I think he made a huge mistake as the world knows what he is now.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I would think a "smart" person could answer a simple question. But then I can not remember you ever providing a website to show how you found a statistic.
> 
> You need to include Hillary in that war, as she voted for it. But not Obama, since I believe he gave his usual answer when it was time to vote. "Present."


joeysomma
a smart person gathers all the facts and here are some more. The Wars also caused HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS Orphans. Yes, for once you are right, Hillary voted for it and so did many decent indviduals who never thought that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld would tell such a monstrous lie. As to President Obama voting "present", now that is smart when you are being asked: (just an example) "When was the last time you beat your wife"?. Hope you get it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I hope it was a mistake made by bumbling pro-Rissian separatists who didn't know what the heck they were doing. I saw on the news tonight that the few guards at the site were drunk and obnoxious. The wreckage, bodies, and belongings of the victims were just lying around and almost anyone could have access to the area.


I hope so too, however Putin allowed them to use the missiles. It sounds as if the bodies have been searched and stuff taken. so sad. Our Canadian reporter showed were 11 bodies were lying on the edge of a field right at the edge of a road. It sounds as if there are no facilities or coroners there either. what a mess.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope so too, however Putin allowed them to use the missiles. It sounds as if the bodies have been searched and stuff taken. so sad. Our Canadian reporter showed were 11 bodies were lying on the edge of a field right at the edge of a road. It sounds as if there are no facilities or coroners there either. what a mess.


Designer1234
too bad that we may never find out exactly who is responsible for this Crime. If Putin had his hands in it, he will make sure that those involved will be removed and no-one will have access to them. The shooting down of the Airliner is bad enough but to disrespect the victims is the worst. I just hope that some foreign Leaders finally get fed up with Putin. They have been cowtowing to thim because of Oil - that needs to change. According to reliable News, changes are in the making.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> a smart person gathers all the facts and here are some more. The Wars also caused HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS Orphans. Yes, for once you are right, Hillary voted for it and so did many decent indviduals who never thought that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld would tell such a monstrous lie. As to President Obama voting "present", now that is smart when you are being asked: (just an example) "When was the last time you beat your wife"?. Hope you get it.


I can't believe that there are still people around who are pro-Bush/Cheney/Rummy after all they put our country through as a result of their lies. I guess the military families have to believe that the war did some good. (Gee, what were the benefits of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I can't believe that there are still people around who are pro-Bush/Cheney/Rummy after all they put our country through as a result of their lies. I guess the military families have to believe that the war did some good. (Gee, what were the benefits of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?)


alcameron
NO BENEFITS for anyone except for those who manufacture military hardware - isn't that where Cheney has been piling up his fortune?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> NO BENEFITS for anyone except for those who manufacture military hardware - isn't that where Cheney has been piling up his fortune?


You've got that right, Huck. And don't forget oil and Halliburton.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> If at this point, 8 years after the classified military reports were released that they said 150,000 people were killed, then you have no business even discussing the topic because you are WAAAAAAY behind on even basic facts.


Wilmot
thank you for showing joeysomma that sources are in existence and though the numbers of casualties very, mine are at the low end and actually 193.000. Sorry joyesomma, I reported 190.000.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You've got that right, Huck. And don't forget oil and Halliburton.


alcameron
since President Obama is trying his very best, to end the Wars, Cheney and McCain are trying extremely hard to get us into a new one. Wars are money makers for these folks and they care not about the casualties of War.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> since President Obama is trying his very best, to end the Wars, Cheney and McCain are trying extremely hard to get us into a new one. Wars are money makers for these folks and they care not about the casualties of War.


Right again, Huck.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Wilmot said:


> That's how they maintain their POV, by being completely ignorant of even very basic facts.
> 
> I can't even believe that Joey had to keep asking about the 150,000. When the classified reports were released the 150,000 number was being CONSTANTLY reported. You have to have been in a SERIOUS bubble to have not heard of that.
> 
> ...


At the same time, they are so gullible about believing every big, fat lie put out there by the reactionaries, Faux News, etc. that they wouldn't know truth if it hit them in the face.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> That's how they maintain their POV, by being completely ignorant of even very basic facts.
> 
> I can't even believe that Joey had to keep asking about the 150,000 number. When the classified reports were released the number was being CONSTANTLY reported. You have to have been in a SERIOUS bubble to have not heard of that.
> 
> ...


Wilmot
you certainly know her well. Right on target you are.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> I don't blame anyone for not answering her right away because quite clearly she was playing games. Or could she really be THAT uninformed?


Wilmot
if she is not, she sure is dumb to play so stupid or stupid to play that dumb. Wonder why she gets so confused about numbers, hasn't she claimed to be a Tax Preparer? Wow. Numbers should never escape her.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but in my opinion you think anything you disagree with is a lie or a conspiracy theory. New ideas are not welcome.


I haven't heard any new ideas....just old conspiracy theories...from you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> Well, it's not about knowing _her_ well, it's just that she's typical of a certain group of willfully self-deluded individuals.
> 
> She's a prosaic cliche' in and of herself.


Wilmot
I see them like a Worm in an Apple. Dug in without an escape route.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO the problem starts when someone thinks war solves problems.



joeysomma said:


> Thank you for the sources.
> 
> A good number of the civilians were killed by their own people. Not by the Coalition. Huck just said Bush/Cheney killed more than 150thousand. She did not say it included civilians in their own country. Then she would not clarify her statement, when questioned. That is where the problem started.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> knitter== It has to come from both sides. Do you think for a minute you can convince LTL, or Joey, or KPG or Solo? I am willing to quit and always have been if they would. I wish it could happen, We don't go there and attack them. they come here where we are having discussions. I realize that Joey thinks this is 'her' spot but why doesn't she post her posts where the group would agree with her? This doesn't belong to her. It belongs to KP. We don't go to D and P, anymore - but that doesn't stop them from coming here and attacking. It isn't going to happen. Too much water under the bridge -- too many lies, and insults.
> 
> Anyway, I am going over to NB. talk to you all later.


Nope. It doesn't have to come from both sides. Each individual makes their own choice. We are each responsible for our own actions.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree Huck. I think they were rogues, not sure that Putin knew but he gave them the missiles. I think he made a huge mistake as the world knows what he is now.


What if the Ukrainians did it to make Russia look bad and garner international support?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You don't have to be snippy about it. The idea originated in the administration, which then lobbied Congress to vote in favor of it (_that's_ how our government works), and it got much of Congress to do so by telling lies about WMD's and Iraq's ties to al-Qaida and by forcing the international weapons inspectors to leave before they had completed their work. They even had Colin Powell lie to the UN about nuclear weapons and anthrax. But just because they fooled a lot of the people that one time doesn't make them less responsible for the consequences.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how morality works?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> NO BENEFITS for anyone except for those who manufacture military hardware - isn't that where Cheney has been piling up his fortune?


Obviously the military industrial complex profited enormously. But don't forget...we all benefitted from the survival of the petrodollar. Hussein could have single handedly brought down the petrodollar and the entire US economy. In my opinion, nothing justified this evil war. Senseless killing for the almighty dollar. But that's what all wars in recent history have been about. War is money. War is power.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> That's how they maintain their POV, by being completely ignorant of even very basic facts.
> 
> I can't even believe that Joey had to keep asking about the 150,000 number. When the classified reports were released the number was being CONSTANTLY reported. You have to have been in a SERIOUS bubble to have not heard of that.
> 
> ...


If you expect sources from others, you should be prepared to provide them yourself.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand that those sophisticated missile launchers are not a stand-alone system. They need radar to be able to be sure they're aiming at the right target. They don' t have this. Whoever gave them the missile launcher did the equivalent of giving a loaded AK-47 to a blind 3 year old.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I haven't heard any new ideas....just old conspiracy theories...from you.


And I hear the same things from you, over and over. Is it OK for you to express your thoughts over and over, but not for me? We disagree. So what?!? I often restrain myself from saying what I think because its not conducive to discussion. Perhaps everyone should exercise a little restraint.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I haven't heard any new ideas....just old conspiracy theories...from you.


damemary
Hello dame. Always a pleasure to see you. Oh those conspiracies and none are interesting, just nuts and SOS. Some people live a restricted Life. What a waste.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you keep thinking some things are "new ideas" when in fact they're the same old crazy ass nutty "ideas" that thoughtful people have debunked long ago.
> 
> You in particular I've noticed have a _serious_ issue with not understanding the difference between correlation and causation and you suffer from SERIOUS cases of illusory correlation and confirmation bias.
> 
> You would have scientists lining up in a "standing room only" formation just to watch you engage in a Rorschach test.


I'm glad your opinion means nothing to me. I strive to be the exact opposite of you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Pro-Life Video of the Day: Twins Saved From Abortion at Planned Parenthood
> 
> by Jill Stanek | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 1/30/14 3:50 PM
> by Hans Johnson
> ...


joeysomma
this and several other stories reappear for 40 years now. We can recite them by Heart. Don't you ever feel useless?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> Gee, every time you lose an argument, you post another one of your nonsensical articles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wimot
we don't need to read them. Our Spies have supplied us with the "editions from central casting". Same stories circulating for decades now.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> No, I don't think people should have to source common information that any half-baked idiot should know.
> 
> If I argue that when you jump into a pool of water with a bathing suit on, your bathing suit will get wet...
> 
> ...


Obviously, the discussion had nothing to do with something so simple as the fact that water is wet. You're nothing but a bully! I'll bet in real life, you're a coward. That's the way it is, with bullies. You don't intimidate me, you just disgust me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> Hello dame. Always a pleasure to see you. Oh those conspiracies and none are interesting, just nuts and SOS. Some people live a restricted Life. What a waste.


In what way do you think my life is restricted?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> Well, clueless and easily bamboozles would be the opposite of me so you may consider yourself successful in that regard.


And MANY other opposites as well!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> What is it with racists and conspiracy theorists? They're always complaining that their "ideas" are not being respected as benign sane differences of opinion.
> 
> I agree that differing POV's that are rooted in reason should be considered and respected.
> 
> But things like racism and conspiracies theories are not rational and thoughtful people not only are not required to pretend they are, but if continued human enlightenment is a goal one wishes to advance towards, I would argue it's the duty of reasoned people to NOT treat kooks like they're reasonable.


I have never once, asked that my ideas be respected. Only that I be respected. There used to be such a thing as courtesy. It used to be common. It isn't anymore!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Huck's number of 150thousand killed is unreasonable. Where did she find it?
> 
> War will kill many innocent people each one of them is precious in God's sight. One innocent person is one to many.
> 
> If she is unable to prove the number, I guess, I will not be able to believe any of her statements.


You know very well that you won't believe one thing she says unless it's to agree with you.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Chinese Woman Dying From Forced Abortion at 18 Weeks
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Bijie City, China | LifeNews.com | 7/19/13 4:34 PM
> 
> ...


Another common abortion story from China, where the anti-abortion Hobby Lobby gets most of its merchandise from.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Wilmot said:


> I'm sorry, but in my opinion, you keep thinking some things are "new ideas" when in fact they're the same old crazy ass nutty "ideas" that thoughtful people have debunked long ago.
> 
> You in particular I've noticed have a _serious_ issue with not understanding the difference between correlation and causation and you suffer from SERIOUS cases of illusory correlation and confirmation bias.
> 
> You would have scientists lining up in a "standing room only" formation just to watch you engage in a Rorschach test.


Lighten up here, WIlmot. KFN is more reasonable and concerned about the USA than Joey, Solo, LTL, and CB. She doesn't jump in with cut & pastes blazing and racist propaganda.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wilmot said:


> Well, let's face it. There are of course cleaver tax professionals and then there are those "McDonalds"-style preparers who are "professional" in the same way a cook at McDonalds is a "chef".
> 
> Nothing wrong with a hard working McDonalds cook, but I'm not gong to look to one of them prepare Beef Wellington.


Wilmot
what a smart comparisson.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Wilmot said:


> In fact, it can be the corporations that force these abortions.
> 
> Point is, whether it's abortion, gestation or giving birth, no government or corporate boss should be forcing or trying to prevent any choice a women may need to make regarding her medical needs.
> 
> The one great thing about Joey's posts is how often she disproves her own POV.


Comparing Chinese policy to American policy is not even apples and oranges. Chinese policy is moot here. I would like to see Joey post something about how she personally helped a woman contemplating abortion to reconsider, and how she continues to help the family. My 5 yr old granddaughter could probably cut and paste; I know she could carry a sign protesting abortion. Just what that would accomplish remains to be seen.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I can't believe that there are still people around who are pro-Bush/Cheney/Rummy after all they put our country through as a result of their lies. I guess the military families have to believe that the war did some good. (Gee, what were the benefits of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?)


There are too many veterans suffering from PTSD to think that the Middle East wars did anything but cause pain, suffering, destruction, and monstrous profits to Halliburton.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What if the Ukrainians did it to make Russia look bad and garner international support?


Knitter from Nebraska
now that would be the most idiotic way ever. Hoping for support after killing almost 300 people? They had to know that it was a civilian Jetliner.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And I hear the same things from you, over and over. Is it OK for you to express your thoughts over and over, but not for me? We disagree. So what?!? I often restrain myself from saying what I think because its not conducive to discussion. Perhaps everyone should exercise a little restraint.


Knitter frm Nebaska
if you only knew how much restraint I exercise. To be dealing with so many lies and so much stupidity is a little tough.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> knitter== It has to come from both sides. Do you think for a minute you can convince LTL, or Joey, or KPG or Solo? I am willing to quit and always have been if they would. I wish it could happen, We don't go there and attack them. they come here where we are having discussions. I realize that Joey thinks this is 'her' spot but why doesn't she post her posts where the group would agree with her? This doesn't belong to her. It belongs to KP. We don't go to D and P, anymore - but that doesn't stop them from coming here and attacking. It isn't going to happen. Too much water under the bridge -- too many lies, and insults.
> 
> Anyway, I am going over to NB. talk to you all later.


Joey is wound up on her personal mission. It's too bad she isn't accomplishing anything. Even knitting layette items for needy new moms would be more productive than all the cut-and-pasting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you!
> Mil is in her new home but has many needs. She usually calls twice a day and I've had to take her to several appointments, drs etc... It usually takes a minimum of four hours for every outing. I know, I know, it shouldn't take four hours to go to the doctor. But I have to get to her house and lead her out to the car. Then get the steps hubby made to get her into the car (its a minivan, she needs steps to get in and out), put the walker in the car, put the steps in the car and drive. Then I have to stop in front of wherever we are, get the steps out, get the walker out, get her out, put the steps away and go park the car. Then she walks like a turtle and has to go to the bathroom everywhere we go. The bathroom alone takes 25 minutes. Then we repeat the whole process at each stop, which also includes lunch at Village Inn because she likes breakfast for lunch. Today, we'd planned on taking her to the grocery store at 10 AM and somehow we ended up with her all day. She just left about a half hour ago. Hubby had the privilege today. This next week I only have to take her for a perm, so hopefully it won't be too bad. I gonna drop her off and go to the bookstore. My hairdresser will be a captive audience. Haha! The week after that were going to be gone, vacation. Yay! But the week after that she's got several things already set up. :-( I know that I should be nicer about it. And I really am nice to her. She has no idea how much she is driving me crazy. Somehow, I will survive. Thanks for letting me vent. I didn't mean to write a book. I just got carried away. I'm trying to be better. Really!


There's no way to be nicer about it. It's a strain, and you know it won't get any better. I have always been grateful that my older sister took on that job herself - I was called on for a weekend here and there, but otherwise was spared the hardest part. But these were our own parents, which I supposed made it easier to accept. Wait, I lie. My sister also had her mother-in-law living with her a good deal of the time, but her mil was the kind of person who insisted on doing things for herself, who would exercise every day (even after a hip replacement). Even though she was a very boring talker, she could be left on her own.

Who takes care of mil while you're on vacation?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Shirley!
> I needed to be away. I'd just had too much of everything. I'm feeling better now. I missed everybody but obviously I didn't miss much here. :lol:


Kinda like the old soap operas--you could miss a few months and pick right back up again! Hopefully things will settle down to workable outings. Glad you're back!!

:-D :-D :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Joey is wound up on her personal mission. It's too bad she isn't accomplishing anything. Even knitting layette items for needy new moms would be more productive than all the cut-and-pasting.


maysmom
she is being paid for her mission but gets only a thank you for donated items.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think a "smart" person could answer a simple question. But then I can not remember you ever providing a website to show how you found a statistic.
> 
> You need to include Hillary in that war, as she voted for it. But not Obama, since I believe he gave his usual answer when it was time to vote. "Present."


In fact, what he said about it was that he was against "stupid" wars. This war was the stupidest in our lifetimes.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Lighten up here, WIlmot. KFN is more reasonable and concerned about the USA than Joey, Solo, LTL, and CB. She doesn't jump in with cut & pastes blazing and racist propaganda.


Thanks, maysmom. But don't bother. Her hate runs too deep. She is as close minded as she accuses others of being. Its amazing how we see in others that which we refuse to see in ourselves.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If it was a lie, more than 90% of the Congress believed it. All of Congress who voted for it are as guilty, or more so, than Bush. Congress voted, Bush agreed. There were more than enough votes to over ride a veto, so why should he veto it.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how our government works?


I sincerely doubt that you do.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wilmot
> what a smart comparisson.


Why is that a smart comparison? Its like saying that a person who cooks for McDonalds couldn't possibly be any more. Perhaps there are chefs out there who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, who are forced to take a job at McDonalds. I think it was a mean spirited remark that assumes that some people are less than others.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> How many American troops died and how many were injured Joey? And of those who returned, how many are suffering from PTSD?


Don't ask that, those numbers won't be found. Ask how many abortions were performed or thwarted, and you'll have a winner!
(Although there haven't been any posts about Middle East abortions. Yet.)


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> now that would be the most idiotic way ever. Hoping for support after killing almost 300 people? They had to know that it was a civilian Jetliner.


The point I was making was that they could have done it and made it LOOK like Russia did it. Thus the Ukraine would benefit from the international community's censure of Russia.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter frm Nebaska
> if you only knew how much restraint I exercise. To be dealing with so many lies and so much stupidity is a little tough.


Ditto!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's no way to be nicer about it. It's a strain, and you know it won't get any better. I have always been grateful that my older sister took on that job herself - I was called on for a weekend here and there, but otherwise was spared the hardest part. But these were our own parents, which I supposed made it easier to accept. Wait, I lie. My sister also had her mother-in-law living with her a good deal of the time, but her mil was the kind of person who insisted on doing things for herself, who would exercise every day (even after a hip replacement). Even though she was a very boring talker, she could be left on her own.
> 
> Who takes care of mil while you're on vacation?


Your sister must be a Saint! 
One of my daughters in law will be on call. Mil isn't scheduling appointments for that week and dil stops in to visit anyway. She's on Mil's speed dial and has keys to Mil's house. I'm sure things will be fine. Its not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself, she just doesn't want to.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Kinda like the old soap operas--you could miss a few months and pick right back up again! Hopefully things will settle down to workable outings. Glad you're back!!
> 
> :-D :-D :-D


Yup! :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Headed for bed. Ttyl!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO the problem starts when someone thinks war solves problems.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is no question, this was a BABY, and this was murder.
> 
> Nurse Sees Baby Survive Failed Abortion, Left to Die at Hospital


There's still the question about whether the story is true.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Wilmot said:


> Doesn't matter whether it's Chinese or American policy. Trying to force a woman into an abortion or gestation/birthing are all equally offensive.
> 
> I'm not interested in her stories of "helping" a woman to reconsider as if women who choose abortions are idiots that need to be guided. VERY VERY few women who chose abortion regret the decision.
> 
> Joey has made it very clear she doesn't care about the children coming from central and south America so we already know her "compassion" for children does not extend to the born.


Please do not give joey the idea to post more articles about Chinese abortions, she disturbs enough electrons already. My point about reading of her helping the women who choose to continue their pregnancies would give credence to her professing to reverence life. But, you are correct in your last paragraph, so I guess the whole mess is moot.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Your sister must be a Saint!
> One of my daughters in law will be on call. Mil isn't scheduling appointments for that week and dil stops in to visit anyway. She's on Mil's speed dial and has keys to Mil's house. I'm sure things will be fine. Its not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself, she just doesn't want to.


I've witnessed that line of thought! Like the old, "Don't worry about me, I'll be fine sitting here in the dark."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wilmot said:


> Please go back and see how she was going after PoorPurl ETC.
> 
> Her conspiracy theory thinking is genuinely nuts. Not going to pretend it's something other than that.


She never went after me that I can recall. In fact, she could complain the reverse was true.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Comparing Chinese policy to American policy is not even apples and oranges. Chinese policy is moot here. I would like to see Joey post something about how she personally helped a woman contemplating abortion to reconsider, and how she continues to help the family. My 5 yr old granddaughter could probably cut and paste; I know she could carry a sign protesting abortion. Just what that would accomplish remains to be seen.


That would be interesting. Not about your granddaughter but about Joey personally helping a woman reconsider an abortion and continuing to help that family.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That would be interesting. Not about your granddaughter but about Joey personally helping a woman reconsider an abortion and continuing to help that family.


I doubt that anything of the sort has ever happened. It's far easier to cut and paste and to carry a sign. The young man courting Jessa Duggar has made banning abortion his life's work on Facebook. If they do get married, they can try to beat her mama Michelle's litter of 19.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Your sister must be a Saint!
> One of my daughters in law will be on call. Mil isn't scheduling appointments for that week and dil stops in to visit anyway. She's on Mil's speed dial and has keys to Mil's house. I'm sure things will be fine. Its not that she isn't capable of taking care of herself, she just doesn't want to.


My sister certainly is a saint, St. Ruthie - I'm sure you've heard of her. She just has never shied away from doing what needed to be done. In fact, the exact opposite of me. But I love spending time with her. And, hey, she's stopping by tomorrow!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My sister certainly is a saint, St. Ruthie - I'm sure you've heard of her. She just has never shied away from doing what needed to be done. In fact, the exact opposite of me. But I love spending time with her. And, hey, she's stopping by tomorrow!


Well, have a good visit!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why is that a smart comparison? Its like saying that a person who cooks for McDonalds couldn't possibly be any more. Perhaps there are chefs out there who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, who are forced to take a job at McDonalds. I think it was a mean spirited remark that assumes that some people are less than others.


Knitter from Nebraska
why do you always have the need to twist things in a negative direction? Unwind yourself from the twisted mess.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The point I was making was that they could have done it and made it LOOK like Russia did it. Thus the Ukraine would benefit from the international community's censure of Russia.


LKnitter from Nebraska
are you so fickle to think that the professional Investigators would not find the source? So it won't be easy since all sorts of road blocks will be in their way but they will keep digging until they know what happened and who is the source of the disaster. Do not forget, 80 children lost their lives and that alone is enough reason to find the culprits.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I doubt that anything of the sort has ever happened. It's far easier to cut and paste and to carry a sign. The young man courting Jessa Duggar has made banning abortion his life's work on Facebook. If they do get married, they can try to beat her mama Michelle's litter of 19.


I think Joey has helped people, but probably not in regard to abortion. She and DH apparently go abroad and provide tools and machines for people to use to support themselves.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think Joey has helped people, but probably not in regard to abortion. She and DH apparently go abroad and provide tools and machines for people to use to support themselves.


Well, that would be more helpful and maybe even help garner support for their efforts. Joey, would you care to elaborate?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I guess I shouldn't complain. I only have to drive 5 or 10 minutes to get her. I can't even imagine doing that if she were two hours away. All of our trips are nearby too. But the best thing of all is the silence when I'm home alone! She NEVER stops talking! Since my kids grew up and moved out, I've become very comfortable with peace and quiet. Please don't admire me. I'm just doing what needs to be done. Anyone in my position would do it. I've got the best husband in the world and I would do anything for him. He knows what I'm going through and appreciates it greatly. He also tells me to leave it to him but if I did, I'd never get to spend any time with him. So I'll continue to slog on through it. Next week, I'll have him all to myself. Dil will take on mil duties. By the way, BOTH daughters in law have been visiting her at least once a week so that takes the pressure off of me. It's much appreciated.


I am relieved for you that you have family support and get your little "mental health" breaks.

The constant talking is one of the indicators that she is lonely. Do you have senior centers with activities in the area? Possibly with courtesy transportation.

As an example, in my township, the senior center is supported as part of municipal government and has Federal wellness grants to provide age appropriate exercise programs. There are groups that play bridge, scrabble, and knit. Senior membership is $15 s year. There is a fee for trips to luncheon theater events, Christmas shows, or the occasional casino trip. There is a township minibus that picks up residents who don't drive.

In addition there are two County adult day care centers with activities for the mentally acute and for early stage dementia patients, again with county subsidized busing.

If you don't have anything like that, PM me and I will get you links to what my area offers and perhaps you and others who share your concerns can start to poll your county officials to provide some sort of life enhancing services for fragile elders like your MIL.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> It is hard for me to believe that this was a mere mistaken identity. Someone wanted to show what power they have.


And I have a gut feeling that the "separatists" are pawns in a larger game.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I can't believe that there are still people around who are pro-Bush/Cheney/Rummy after all they put our country through as a result of their lies. I guess the military families have to believe that the war did some good. (Gee, what were the benefits of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?)


Job security for physical therapists and psychiatrists?

It galls me that so many idealistic young people and so many who had no other job prospects joined the military expecting to protect the national interests, then ended up being sent as cannon fodder for somebody else's cause. And so many of them have come back with their lives destroyed.

Just in my area I know too many Viet Nam vets who were treated like crap when they came home, as if they had a choice about where they were sent and what they had to do to stay alive. All these years later, many of them have lives that are still in shambles because of their mental state. So many of these people have not been able to develop trusting relationships and have broken marriages, broken relationships with their children and siblings, difficulty dealing with stress at work, problems simply living with themselves. There is a great deal of survivor guilt.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That would be interesting. Not about your granddaughter but about Joey personally helping a woman reconsider an abortion and continuing to help that family.


That would be putting her money where her mouth is. It would be actively doing something to support the cause she espouses on a local level.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nope. It doesn't have to come from both sides. Each individual makes their own choice. We are each responsible for our own actions.


Things are not as black and white as you make them out to be.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Job security for physical therapists and psychiatrists?
> 
> It galls me that so many idealistic young people and so many who had no other job prospects joined the military expecting to protect the national interests, then ended up being sent as cannon fodder for somebody else's cause. And so many of them have come back with their lives destroyed.
> 
> Just in my area I know too many Viet Nam vets who were treated like crap when they came home, as if they had a choice about where they were sent and what they had to do to stay alive. All these years later, many of them have lives that are still in shambles because of their mental state. So many of these people have not been able to develop trusting relationships and have broken marriages, broken relationships with their children and siblings, difficulty dealing with stress at work, problems simply living with themselves. There is a great deal of survivor guilt.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And I have a gut feeling that the "separatists" are pawns in a larger game.


Certainly they are, but history shows that people who are easy to sway have been pawns for centuries. I think that Putin outsmarted himself. He wanted part at least of 
the Ukraine, and used these 'Pro Russian rebels", gave them the missiles, and couldn't control them. From what I have heard about dealings with them, they are a bunch of drunken bullies. Put those type of missiles in the hands of people with no discipline or morals and there is the opportunity for a major disaster. Boys with toys. It is a mess. I feel so sorry for those families -- Their loved ones are not being attended to with care and with compassion. Their belongs have been handled and in some cases stolen. There has been no proper 
care of the site. The Black boxes have 'disappeared' although it sounds, if the news is correct, that they are in the hands of the rebels. Sad and scary.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How true. Simple answers to complex questions never work.



Designer1234 said:


> Things are not as black and white as you make them out to be.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Thank you for the sources.
> 
> A good number of the civilians were killed by their own people. Not by the Coalition. Huck just said Bush/Cheney killed more than 150thousand. She did not say it included civilians in their own country. Then she would not clarify her statement, when questioned. That is where the problem started.


You can say that, I would say that the problem started with an unwillingness to think beyond Americans, not even allies were accounted for, were they? 
The Bush Administration insisted on invading Iraq even though the inspectors strongly requested more time to seek clear evidence of the existence or lack of WMDs. It is the Bush Administration's responsibility that destabilization has become the status quo region wide. 
http://www.uswarcrimes.com/
You will love that link, since as real lefties know President Obama is also a war criminal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am coming to the same conclusion. Putin wants to use Pro-Russian Rebels and found the hard way that he couldn't control them.

Can we offer some of our oil reserves to Allies dependent on Russian oil? Get a strong coalition going with UN & Allies. Use all possible sanctions against Russia if they don't admit the error of their ways. Avoid all military contact between US and Russia. Ultimately, Putin may have to go.



Designer1234 said:


> Certainly they are, but history shows that people who are easy to sway have been pawns for centuries. I think that Putin outsmarted himself. He wanted part at least of
> the Ukraine, and used these 'Pro Russian rebels", gave them the missiles, and couldn't control them. From what I have heard about dealings with them, they are a bunch of drunken bullies. Put those type of missiles in the hands of people with no discipline or morals and there is the opportunity for a major disaster. Boys with toys. It is a mess. I feel so sorry for those families -- Their loved ones are not being attended to with care and with compassion. Their belongs have been handled and in some cases stolen. There has been no proper
> care of the site. The Black boxes have 'disappeared' although it sounds, if the news is correct, that they are in the hands of the rebels. Sad and scary.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Certainly they are, but history shows that people who are easy to sway have been pawns for centuries. I think that Putin outsmarted himself. He wanted part at least of
> the Ukraine, and used these 'Pro Russian rebels", gave them the missiles, and couldn't control them. From what I have heard about dealings with them, they are a bunch of drunken bullies. Put those type of missiles in the hands of people with no discipline or morals and there is the opportunity for a major disaster. Boys with toys. It is a mess. I feel so sorry for those families -- Their loved ones are not being attended to with care and with compassion. Their belongs have been handled and in some cases stolen. There has been no proper
> care of the site. The Black boxes have 'disappeared' although it sounds, if the news is correct, that they are in the hands of the rebels. Sad and scary.


7.00 pm news broadcast said that the black boxes had been found. They were found in a field near the crash site. The bodies of many of the victims were loaded on trucks and then onto a train and taken away, but no one is saying where they have been taken.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I am coming to the same conclusion. Putin wants to use Pro-Russian Rebels and found the hard way that he couldn't control them.
> 
> Can we offer some of our oil reserves to Allies dependent on Russian oil? Get a strong coalition going with UN & Allies. Use all possible sanctions against Russia if they don't admit the error of their ways. Avoid all military contact between US and Russia. Ultimately, Putin may have to go.


It is not just the oil, Russia has vast natural gas deposits and control the supply and cost of gas to the Ukraine and Europe. The gas pipelines go across Ukrainian territory. The Ukraine and Europe rely on the natural gas for cooking and heating.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good news here. Black boxes may yield important information. At least bodies are not strewn about in a field anymore.



EveMCooke said:


> 7.00 pm news broadcast said that the black boxes had been found. They were found in a field near the crash site. The bodies of many of the victims were loaded on trucks and then onto a train and taken away, but no one is saying where they have been taken.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yikes! Sorry for simple answer to complex question.



EveMCooke said:


> It is not just the oil, Russia has vast natural gas deposits and control the supply and cost of gas to the Ukraine and Europe. The gas pipelines go across Ukrainian territory. The Ukraine and Europe rely on the natural gas for cooking and heating.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Good news here. Black boxes may yield important information. At least bodies are not strewn about in a field anymore.


They have not collected all the bodies, unfortunately. There are still body parts scattered over the wreck site. There was one distressing image on the news of the body of a man still strapped into his wrecked seat being found amid the wreckage. It is distressing to hear of the number of children and babies who were killed. The Scarborough Junior football club held a memorial service before their game this morning for the dead Maslin children. The eldest boy played for the team, a great little sportsman, just like his great grandfather. The children were due to return to school tomorrow after the mid winter break. Church services were held today in all the capital cities and the PM will declare a national day of mourning later in the week. 38 Australians, 8 from Western Australia is just too many.

update
HRABOVE, Ukraine (AP)  Separatist rebels have taken all the 196 bodies that workers recovered from the Malaysian Airlines crash site away to an unknown location, Ukraine's emergency services said Sunday.

Associated Press journalists saw the pro-Russia rebels putting bagged bodies onto trucks at the crash site Saturday in rebel-held eastern Ukraine and driving them away.

On Sunday morning, AP journalists saw no bodies at the crash site and emergency workers were searching the sprawling fields only for body parts. No armed separatists were seen at the site.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Good news here. Black boxes may yield important information. At least bodies are not strewn about in a field anymore.


It is 6:45 am here in Alberta. It was just stated on CNN that there is still a question of where the black boxes are. It showed a picture of someone carrying part of a black box ( it was one of the rebels. The still don't seem to be sure of whether both are found or who has them. It also showed on one of the US channels, that a body landed on an house and broke through the roof, many miles from the actual site. What a nightmare.

I am less and less impressed with the CNN coverage. Actually, I think it is a very difficult story to cover as there are people who are in charge of the site who might be guilty of mass murder, and they know it. Small wonder they seem to be making it difficult. I just wish the Politics in the States could be put aside and the actual difficulties dealt with by both parties. not going to happen from the looks of things. Between the Crash, the middle east, the children arriving, it will give a lot of political finger pointing now matter what he does or doesn't do.

It was just announced on the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. (CBC)that the flight data recorders have been retrieved by the rebels and it sounds as if they have agreed to turn them over to those who are investigating the crash. That is good news.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Malaysia Airlines MH17 live blog: Bodies removed from crash site as pressure mounts on Russia
Updated 44 minutes ago


A separatist leader says the black boxes from the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 have been found and brought to the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk.

International monitors have also viewed almost 200 bodies located in a refrigerated wagon near the crash site.

The announcement comes as Australia takes a leading role in pushing for an international investigation into the deadly Malaysia Airlines crash with Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop on her way to the US.

An international outpouring of grief continues after the shooting down of flight MH17 killed 298 people, including 28 Australians and nine permanent Australian residents.

Meanwhile, Malaysia Airlines says it will retire flight code MH17 as a "mark of respect" for the 298 people killed.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Obviously, the discussion had nothing to do with something so simple as the fact that water is wet. You're nothing but a bully! I'll bet in real life, you're a coward. That's the way it is, with bullies. You don't intimidate me, you just disgust me.


See what I am saying, How difficult it is not to react KFN?

It is pretty hard to have someone say something to us when it is personal and opposite to our beliefs. It is easy to say "don't react".but much more difficult to do it.

You should make sure that you can follow your own suggestions. It is very hard not to take personal attacks personally. Even harder not to fight back.

I have seen you react on different occasions but then inform us that we are wrong when we do. I am not attacking you - I understand where you are coming from. I used to say the same thing - but I find I can't put my money where my mouth is when someone attacks me or tells lies about me or 
is close minded. Easier said than done. You are pretty strong in feeling you know the answers. However, you don't do what you suggest we all do. It is very very hard to ignore things that you don't agree with in any way. Or personal attacks when you know your own motives.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> There are too many veterans suffering from PTSD to think that the Middle East wars did anything but cause pain, suffering, destruction, and monstrous profits to Halliburton.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I've witnessed that line of thought! Like the old, "Don't worry about me, I'll be fine sitting here in the dark."


Ahahahahaha!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Certainly they are, but history shows that people who are easy to sway have been pawns for centuries. I think that Putin outsmarted himself. He wanted part at least of
> the Ukraine, and used these 'Pro Russian rebels", gave them the missiles, and couldn't control them. From what I have heard about dealings with them, they are a bunch of drunken bullies. Put those type of missiles in the hands of people with no discipline or morals and there is the opportunity for a major disaster. Boys with toys. It is a mess. I feel so sorry for those families -- Their loved ones are not being attended to with care and with compassion. Their belongs have been handled and in some cases stolen. There has been no proper
> care of the site. The Black boxes have 'disappeared' although it sounds, if the news is correct, that they are in the hands of the rebels. Sad and scary.


There is a history of this sort of behavior in the area. The Cossacks rampaged through parts of Russia for generations destroying villages, raping and plundering along the way. Their pogroms are what drove many of my grandparents' generation to England, the US, Canada, the Netherlands, and other civilized countries where they could find work and live in peace.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There is a history of this sort of behavior in the area. The Cossacks rampaged through parts of Russia for generations destroying villages, raping and plundering along the way. Their pogroms are what drove many of my grandparents' generation to England, the US, Canada, the Netherlands, and other civilized countries where they could find work and live in peace.


I think we all remember what Stalin did to the Ukraine during the 1930s. The people were starving but the grain was being exported abroad in order to ear $$$$s to buy tractors. Stalin also punished the Ukrainians after the war because he said they sided with the Nazis. Many Ukrainians did welcome them because they saw them as liberators from Stalin. There is also the fact that the Ukraine is mainly Catholic whilst Russia is Orthodox. The Cossacks are a law unto themselves. They may be great horsemen and dancers but they have little tolerance for people who do not see the world as they see it. The Ukraine also suffered dreadfully at the hands of the Nazis with whole communities being wiped out. The Cossacks have no tolerance for the Jews who lived in that region.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Lighten up here, WIlmot. KFN is more reasonable and concerned about the USA than Joey, Solo, LTL, and CB. She doesn't jump in with cut & pastes blazing and racist propaganda.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She never went after me that I can recall. In fact, she could complain the reverse was true.


Thank you for defending me. I appreciate it. It wasn't my intent to go after you. I'm glad you can see that. I think that last week I'd just been too sensitive to what felt like a barage of negative comments. What hurts is when comments become directed at me and not what I've said. I want to be able to say what I think. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, but neither do I want to pretend that I'm something I'm not. All I ask is that I'm allowed to express myself in the same way that others are. Wait, maybe I meant that we should all be allowed to express ourselves. I did not form my thoughts overnight. I recognize that some of what I say sounds crazy. Buy I will defend my right to say it.

Purl, I have always considered you one of the most reasonable people on here. You are open to others until you aren't. You are forgiving and loyal. You are always willing to give someone a second chance (and a third, and a fourth...). And when someone you generally disagree with, says something you agree with, you acknowledge that. Some people have decided they don't like someone so they pick apart every comment they make. I appreciate your attempt to carry out discussion. You are a pearl! Thank you for giving me a chance to get to know you. I am better for it. That goes for most of you on this thread.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> My sister certainly is a saint, St. Ruthie - I'm sure you've heard of her. She just has never shied away from doing what needed to be done. In fact, the exact opposite of me. But I love spending time with her. And, hey, she's stopping by tomorrow!


I'm glad that you can acknowledge that and still be friends. Many times the combination of guilt on one side and resentment on the other, destroys relationships. It's wonderful to have a sister! I hope you have a great time!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And I have a gut feeling that the "separatists" are pawns in a larger game.


MarilynKnits
Putin is pulling all the strings.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> why do you always have the need to twist things in a negative direction? Unwind yourself from the twisted mess.


Sorry. I guess its contagious.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, that would be more helpful and maybe even help garner support for their efforts. Joey, would you care to elaborate?


It would be good to know more about that mission. I only found out because Yarnie was annoyed at somebody putting Joey down and told us about it.

Joey, I seriously think it would be good for all of us to know more about what you do, as opposed to what Lifenews does.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Job security for physical therapists and psychiatrists?
> 
> It galls me that so many idealistic young people and so many who had no other job prospects joined the military expecting to protect the national interests, then ended up being sent as cannon fodder for somebody else's cause. And so many of them have come back with their lives destroyed.
> 
> Just in my area I know too many Viet Nam vets who were treated like crap when they came home, as if they had a choice about where they were sent and what they had to do to stay alive. All these years later, many of them have lives that are still in shambles because of their mental state. So many of these people have not been able to develop trusting relationships and have broken marriages, broken relationships with their children and siblings, difficulty dealing with stress at work, problems simply living with themselves. There is a great deal of survivor guilt.


War is the gift that keeps on giving.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> You can say that, I would say that the problem started with an unwillingness to think beyond Americans, not even allies were accounted for, were they?
> The Bush Administration insisted on invading Iraq even though the inspectors strongly requested more time to seek clear evidence of the existence or lack of WMDs. It is the Bush Administration's responsibility that destabilization has become the status quo region wide.
> http://www.uswarcrimes.com/
> You will love that link, since as real lefties know President Obama is also a war criminal.


That link is puzzling. All I could get, no matter what I clicked on, was from or about a book titled _George W. Bush, War Criminal?_ Every link I followed from that gave me an error message, *Not Found*, even stuff dated yesterday.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> See what I am saying, How difficult it is not to react KFN?
> 
> It is pretty hard to have someone say something to us when it is personal and opposite to our beliefs. It is easy to say "don't react".but much more difficult to do it.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Shirley. This says explicitly what I've been trying to say but haven't been able to.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for defending me. I appreciate it. It wasn't my intent to go after you. I'm glad you can see that. I think that last week I'd just been too sensitive to what felt like a barage of negative comments. What hurts is when comments become directed at me and not what I've said. I want to be able to say what I think. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, but neither do I want to pretend that I'm something I'm not. All I ask is that I'm allowed to express myself in the same way that others are. Wait, maybe I meant that we should all be allowed to express ourselves. I did not form my thoughts overnight. I recognize that some of what I say sounds crazy. Buy I will defend my right to say it.
> 
> Purl, I have always considered you one of the most reasonable people on here. You are open to others until you aren't. You are forgiving and loyal. You are always willing to give someone a second chance (and a third, and a fourth...). And when someone you generally disagree with, says something you agree with, you acknowledge that. Some people have decided they don't like someone so they pick apart every comment they make. I appreciate your attempt to carry out discussion. You are a pearl! Thank you for giving me a chance to get to know you. I am better for it. That goes for most of you on this thread.


I applaud you for being willing to come here and talk to us. 
The part I underlined is where we all have the same problem. People attack us personally, not necessarily what we are saying. We have all gotten angry and done that as the personal attacks are hurtful and frustrating. Ask me how I know. Some very very hurtful things have been said over these threads since they opened. Some enjoy the battle more than others. It is hard to get a group of people who are passionate about what they believe to agree on how they should react. The problem is we are all human. I also appreciate it that you hang in here with us. At least we are discussing -even though we likely will never agree on most things. I try to keep my posts to a couple of things I believe in strongly, and I try to be reasonable, I don't always succeed. It is very hurtful when our words are twisted, and especially when words are put in our mouths and taken as truth. I think most people here are very passionate about other people - and we do have some really good discussions.

We even disagree with each other - which doesn't seem to happen on the right threads. They are a United front and even those who don't agree never say so. I prefer to speak my own truths which might not be the truths of all of us on WOW. We are open for each other to do that. I respect my friends here. They are loyal friends.

I am glad to see you back.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for defending me. I appreciate it. It wasn't my intent to go after you. I'm glad you can see that. I think that last week I'd just been too sensitive to what felt like a barage of negative comments. What hurts is when comments become directed at me and not what I've said. I want to be able to say what I think. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, but neither do I want to pretend that I'm something I'm not. All I ask is that I'm allowed to express myself in the same way that others are. Wait, maybe I meant that we should all be allowed to express ourselves. I did not form my thoughts overnight. I recognize that some of what I say sounds crazy. Buy I will defend my right to say it.
> 
> Purl, I have always considered you one of the most reasonable people on here. You are open to others until you aren't. You are forgiving and loyal. You are always willing to give someone a second chance (and a third, and a fourth...). And when someone you generally disagree with, says something you agree with, you acknowledge that. Some people have decided they don't like someone so they pick apart every comment they make. I appreciate your attempt to carry out discussion. You are a pearl! Thank you for giving me a chance to get to know you. I am better for it. That goes for most of you on this thread.


You make me sound like a saint. I think you have me confused with my sister.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Duplicate. Sending in the cats:







[/URL]


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm glad that you can acknowledge that and still be friends. Many times the combination of guilt on one side and resentment on the other, destroys relationships. It's wonderful to have a sister! I hope you have a great time!


I think she's the person I love most in all the world. But she's sick today, so I won't get to see her. Maybe tomorrow (isn't retirement wonderful?).


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am relieved for you that you have family support and get your little "mental health" breaks.
> 
> The constant talking is one of the indicators that she is lonely. Do you have senior centers with activities in the area? Possibly with courtesy transportation.
> 
> ...


I read this to my hubby and we both had a good laugh. In order for us to get her to a senior center, she would first have to acknowledge that she IS a senior. That'll never happen. She's got a thing about her age. She will NEVER be a "senior citizen". When I was scouting out places for them to live, she gave me a list of demands that would ONLY fit a senior living place. I found one. It was perfect. But when I said it was a senior living facility, nope! But then I told her I'd found another one that was for people over the age of fifty (it was the same one), yup! That was perfect. I think we'd have to tie her up and gag her to drop her off at a senior citizens center. The complex she's in also has lots of activities for the seniors, including a bus to take them places. But she'll never go. She's not interested in doing anything (except watch tv) and hasn't been since I've known her (38 years). I can't imagine her ever getting involved in anything independently or otherwise. She's a stubborn self centered woman. And we'll just have to deal with it. But thank you for the suggestions. For most people they would be wonderful.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And I have a gut feeling that the "separatists" are pawns in a larger game.


I agree!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Job security for physical therapists and psychiatrists?
> 
> It galls me that so many idealistic young people and so many who had no other job prospects joined the military expecting to protect the national interests, then ended up being sent as cannon fodder for somebody else's cause. And so many of them have come back with their lives destroyed.
> 
> Just in my area I know too many Viet Nam vets who were treated like crap when they came home, as if they had a choice about where they were sent and what they had to do to stay alive. All these years later, many of them have lives that are still in shambles because of their mental state. So many of these people have not been able to develop trusting relationships and have broken marriages, broken relationships with their children and siblings, difficulty dealing with stress at work, problems simply living with themselves. There is a great deal of survivor guilt.


Oh, I agree! Pawns on a chess board! Not just those who couldn't find a job but noble young men who sacrificed for their country. They thought it was for their country but it was always about someone else's money and power. It saddens me that they are being deceived.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Things are not as black and white as you make them out to be.


In this case, I believe that they are. We ARE each responsible for our own actions. We cannot control what others say and do, but we can control what WE each say and do.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> How true. Simple answers to complex questions never work.


It's only a question as to who controls us. Do we control ourselves or do we allow ourselves to be controlled by the actions of others?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I am coming to the same conclusion. Putin wants to use Pro-Russian Rebels and found the hard way that he couldn't control them.
> 
> Can we offer some of our oil reserves to Allies dependent on Russian oil? Get a strong coalition going with UN & Allies. Use all possible sanctions against Russia if they don't admit the error of their ways. Avoid all military contact between US and Russia. Ultimately, Putin may have to go.


From what I've read, the whole thing is about oil. Russia is expanding its oil business and is trading oil WITHOUT the use of the petrodollar. The US is getting involved and poking a stick at Russia to preserve the dollar. Relations between the Ukrainians and the Russians were fine until the US sent in NGO's to stir the pot. We were responsible for ousting their democratically elected president and putting in a puppet government that would do our bidding. Our government is using the Ukrainian people to try and keep Russia in line. If Russia (and China) supply the world with oil, not using dollars, the dollar will collapse. Its all a house of cards that about to collapse. Again, its about money and power.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> It is not just the oil, Russia has vast natural gas deposits and control the supply and cost of gas to the Ukraine and Europe. The gas pipelines go across Ukrainian territory. The Ukraine and Europe rely on the natural gas for cooking and heating.


Yes. But the Saudis in partnership with the big oil companies are working on getting a pipeline built from Saudi Arabia. That's what the fights in the middle east are about, especially Syria. They want to run the pipeline through Syria and Assad won't let them. They are allies with Russia. Its all connected to oil, money and power.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> They have not collected all the bodies, unfortunately. There are still body parts scattered over the wreck site. There was one distressing image on the news of the body of a man still strapped into his wrecked seat being found amid the wreckage. It is distressing to hear of the number of children and babies who were killed. The Scarborough Junior football club held a memorial service before their game this morning for the dead Maslin children. The eldest boy played for the team, a great little sportsman, just like his great grandfather. The children were due to return to school tomorrow after the mid winter break. Church services were held today in all the capital cities and the PM will declare a national day of mourning later in the week. 38 Australians, 8 from Western Australia is just too many.
> 
> update
> HRABOVE, Ukraine (AP)  Separatist rebels have taken all the 196 bodies that workers recovered from the Malaysian Airlines crash site away to an unknown location, Ukraine's emergency services said Sunday.
> ...


I weep for these poor souls. Mere pawns in somebody else's war. I can't bear to watch the coverage. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> See what I am saying, How difficult it is not to react KFN?
> 
> It is pretty hard to have someone say something to us when it is personal and opposite to our beliefs. It is easy to say "don't react".but much more difficult to do it.
> 
> ...


Yup! You're right. I need to follow my own advice. I've never excluded myself but I do attempt to control myself. You have no idea what flew into my brain first. I thought I did quite well, considering.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I applaud you for being willing to come here and talk to us.
> The part I underlined is where we all have the same problem. People attack us personally, not necessarily what we are saying. We have all gotten angry and done that as the personal attacks are hurtful and frustrating. Ask me how I know. Some very very hurtful things have been said over these threads since they opened. Some enjoy the battle more than others. It is hard to get a group of people who are passionate about what they believe to agree on how they should react. The problem is we are all human. I also appreciate it that you hang in here with us. At least we are discussing -even though we likely will never agree on most things. I try to keep my posts to a couple of things I believe in strongly, and I try to be reasonable, I don't always succeed. It is very hurtful when our words are twisted, and especially when words are put in our mouths and taken as truth. I think most people here are very passionate about other people - and we do have some really good discussions.
> 
> We even disagree with each other - which doesn't seem to happen on the right threads. They are a United front and even those who don't agree never say so. I prefer to speak my own truths which might not be the truths of all of us on WOW. We are open for each other to do that. I respect my friends here. They are loyal friends.
> ...


You're right! I'm only still hoping that we can think before we "speak". None of us is perfect, nor can we be. But we can TRY to be better.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You make me sound like a saint. I think you have me confused with my sister.


Ahahahaha! Notice I said, "you are open to others until you're not"? No sainthood for you! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
But honestly, you have more patience and forgiveness than many. I appreciate that about you. You've never given up on me even though I frustrate the dickens out of you. . Thank you!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think she's the person I love most in all the world. But she's sick today, so I won't get to see her. Maybe tomorrow (isn't retirement wonderful?).


My sister and I were that close for a while but once grandchildren entered the picture, we're drifting apart somewhat. Hers are scattered all over. She hasn't retired yet and all of her spare time is spent visiting and keeping up with them. We also live about 50 miles apart, so that doesn't help. I'm hoping that once she retires, she'll have more time. She's also a runner. She runs marathons and the training takes a lot of her time. I think the only reason she hasn't retired yet is the high cost of insurance. I think she'll work til she qualifies for Medicaid.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

There! I'm all caught up and everybody's gone. I think I'll get busy. I bought some new fabric to recover my cornice boxes and sofa pillows. That's a good project for today. Bye!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hello. My Girls are on a 2nd outing in New York with their new outfits.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Job security for physical therapists and psychiatrists?
> 
> It galls me that so many idealistic young people and so many who had no other job prospects joined the military expecting to protect the national interests, then ended up being sent as cannon fodder for somebody else's cause. And so many of them have come back with their lives destroyed.
> 
> Just in my area I know too many Viet Nam vets who were treated like crap when they came home, as if they had a choice about where they were sent and what they had to do to stay alive. All these years later, many of them have lives that are still in shambles because of their mental state. So many of these people have not been able to develop trusting relationships and have broken marriages, broken relationships with their children and siblings, difficulty dealing with stress at work, problems simply living with themselves. There is a great deal of survivor guilt.


MarilynKnits
I have friends (a married couple) who served in Vietnam and they never dared to let anyone know that they did. So sad. They served honorably but were shunned when coming home. It speaks ill of many of us.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Hello. My Girls are on a 2nd outing in New York with their new outfits.


Huckleberry
They are stunning. That lace skirt is just flirty enough without being too revealing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am sorry for carrying on about the 150thousand. I found the number of coalition forces killed during the bush administration, which was much, much less than was stated. By asking for the source of her information, it was for a clarification of her statement. I would expect an adult would be able to do that.
> 
> I promise to try to not ask questions of people who I think either who are unwilling or unable to answer.
> 
> As far as my work for charitable organizations or people. I do not need to explain to anyone what I do. This thread was started as Pro-Life. I will continue to post articles when ever I choose to do so.


You don't need to post anything you choose not to, and you're certainly within your rights to post whatever you like, on this or any thread.

We thought it would be nice to see you as a whole person, rather than someone with just a single purpose in life. If that's too much to ask, I apologize for asking.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I read this to my hubby and we both had a good laugh. In order for us to get her to a senior center, she would first have to acknowledge that she IS a senior. That'll never happen. She's got a thing about her age. She will NEVER be a "senior citizen". When I was scouting out places for them to live, she gave me a list of demands that would ONLY fit a senior living place. I found one. It was perfect. But when I said it was a senior living facility, nope! But then I told her I'd found another one that was for people over the age of fifty (it was the same one), yup! That was perfect. I think we'd have to tie her up and gag her to drop her off at a senior citizens center. The complex she's in also has lots of activities for the seniors, including a bus to take them places. But she'll never go. She's not interested in doing anything (except watch tv) and hasn't been since I've known her (38 years). I can't imagine her ever getting involved in anything independently or otherwise. She's a stubborn self centered woman. And we'll just have to deal with it. But thank you for the suggestions. For most people they would be wonderful.


Knitter from Nebraska
"stroke her" by saying that since she does not act like any Senior nor wants to be one, you are so happy that she is so independent (that should puzzle her). Depart by saying that you are going to enjoy your time with husband and friends to the fullest now that she is settled. IF she bugs you, be frank and say, it sounds like you do need Senior assistance, we will look for it. It MAY keep her from bothering you too much. Trying to help. Don't let her run your Life. Huck


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I have friends (a married couple) who served in Vietnam and they never dared to let anyone know that they did. So sad. They served honorably but were shunned when coming home. It speaks ill of many of us.


I don't know of anyone who was shunned for serving during the Vietnam War. We knew the difference between those serving and those who sent them to fight in that useless and painful war.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It is very hurtful when our words are twisted, and especially when words are put in our mouths and taken as truth.
> 
> We even disagree with each other - which doesn't seem to happen on the right threads. They are a United front and even those who don't agree never say so. I prefer to speak my own truths which might not be the truths of all of us on WOW. We are open for each other to do that. I respect my friends here. They are loyal friends.


Our words get twisted just as often as you claim yours are. Be honest, it is not one sided.

We do disagree with each other, another untruth from you. It just doesn't become anything other than a disagreement. Opinions are stated and then we move on. Attacks are not necessary.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My sister and I were that close for a while but once grandchildren entered the picture, we're drifting apart somewhat. Hers are scattered all over. She hasn't retired yet and all of her spare time is spent visiting and keeping up with them. We also live about 50 miles apart, so that doesn't help. I'm hoping that once she retires, she'll have more time. She's also a runner. She runs marathons and the training takes a lot of her time. I think the only reason she hasn't retired yet is the high cost of insurance. I think she'll work til she qualifies for Medicaid.


I hope you mean Medicare. Medicaid is for low-income earners, and I hope she'll never qualify for that.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know of anyone who was shunned for serving during the Vietnam War. We knew the difference between those serving and those who sent them to fight in that useless and painful war.


Poor Purl
lucky for you. My friends bought a nice Home once they retired and when some neighbors found out that they had served in Vietnam, ugly signs kept showing up in the front yard. It got so bad that they moved and never told anyone about their service again. Sad.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> "stroke her" by saying that since she does not act like any Senior nor wants to be one, you are so happy that she is so independent (that should puzzle her). Depart by saying that you are going to enjoy your time with husband and friends to the fullest now that she is settled. IF she bugs you, be frank and say, it sounds like you do need Senior assistance, we will look for it. It MAY keep her from bothering you too much. Trying to help. Don't let her run your Life. Huck


What I think she needs most is friends, not Senior assistance. Friends would talk her into getting the assistance.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Our words get twisted just as often as you claim yours are. Be honest, it is not one sided.
> 
> We do disagree with each other, another untruth from you. It just doesn't become anything other than a disagreement. Opinions are stated and then we move on. Attacks are not necessary.


Yet apparently some people are "punished" for deviating from the norm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> lucky for you. My friends bought a nice Home once they retired and when some neighbors found out that they had served in Vietnam, ugly signs kept showing up in the front yard. It got so bad that they moved and never told anyone about their service again. Sad.


Huck, it's worse than sad; it's disgusting. To continue carrying a grudge for that long is a sign of sickness.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My sister and I were that close for a while but once grandchildren entered the picture, we're drifting apart somewhat. Hers are scattered all over. She hasn't retired yet and all of her spare time is spent visiting and keeping up with them. We also live about 50 miles apart, so that doesn't help. I'm hoping that once she retires, she'll have more time. She's also a runner. She runs marathons and the training takes a lot of her time. I think the only reason she hasn't retired yet is the high cost of insurance. I think she'll work til she qualifies for Medicaid.


Knitter from Nebraska
distance is no excuse for not being close. My Sister is on the other side of the Country and we speak to each other every day. She has a husband, grandchildren who visit daily, a business and still we find time to visit. We will never have regrets once one of us is gone.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, it's worse than sad; it's disgusting. To continue carrying a grudge for that long is a sign of sickness.


Poor Purl
they did not choose to be in that conflict, they did as told. Don't we see every day how nasty some People can be? And the worst are those who pretend to be Christians. While we are pointing at Russia and the Ukraine right now, some need to examine their own dastardly behavior, they have lots to clean up themselves.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What I think she needs most is friends, not Senior assistance. Friends would talk her into getting the assistance.


Poor Purl
she would quickly turn away from them or they from her. I made that suggestion in hopes that the term "Senior assistance"" might get her to become less demanding.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahaha! Notice I said, "you are open to others until you're not"? No sainthood for you! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> But honestly, you have more patience and forgiveness than many. I appreciate that about you. You've never given up on me even though I frustrate the dickens out of you. . Thank you!


I've had years of training in using patience when working with frustrating people. :roll:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Our words get twisted just as often as you claim yours are. Be honest, it is not one sided.
> 
> We do disagree with each other, another untruth from you. It just doesn't become anything other than a disagreement. Opinions are stated and then we move on. Attacks are not necessary.


Was going to answer, changed my mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> they did not choose to be in that conflict, they did as told. Don't we see every day how nasty some People can be? And the worst are those who pretend to be Christians. While we are pointing at Russia and the Ukraine right now, some need to examine their own dastardly behavior, they have lots to clean up themselves.


Huck, you make some good points here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> she would quickly turn away from them or they from her. I made that suggestion in hopes that the term "Senior assistance"" might get her to become less demanding.


If she doesn't like being thought of as a senior, the phrase might annoy her. On the other hand, doing what your friends do makes you normal, therefore not a senior.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

maysmom said:


> You know bloody well that Thomas is the "token" on the Supreme Court. He's called much worse by his fellow African Americans.


Nice racist comment from such a tolerant LWNJ. Classic liberal hypocrisy they 'feel' they can make racists comments because other libs say liberals make racists comments. Wonder what the Jewish community would think if you were to call one of the Supremes a 'token Jew'? Bet the sparks would fly.

Bless your heart from a true Southerner, not a liberal wanna be.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Corrotta said:


> They're genuinely a cult. They have no ability to think for themselves.


How did you arrive at that conclusion? Spend the last week reading all posts and forming your own conclusion? Doubt it.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I Was Conceived in Rape But I Didnt Deserve Death in Abortion
> 
> No child is from a demon seed, but every woman deserves the right to choose whether she wants to continue a pregnancy that resulted from rape.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nice racist comment from such a tolerant LWNJ. Classic liberal hypocrisy they 'feel' they can make racists comments because other libs say liberals make racists comments. Wonder what the Jewish community would think if you were to call one of the Supremes a 'token Jew'? Bet the sparks would fly.
> 
> Bless your heart from a true Southerner, not a liberal wanna be.


If there were only one Jew on the Court, s/he would probably be a token. But there are three. However, Thomas was appointed to replace Thurgood Marshall, the previous holder of the "black seat." Bush41 had to appoint a black man (there was already a woman on the Court).


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nice racist comment from such a tolerant LWNJ. Classic liberal hypocrisy they 'feel' they can make racists comments because other libs say liberals make racists comments. Wonder what the Jewish community would think if you were to call one of the Supremes a 'token Jew'? Bet the sparks would fly.
> 
> Bless your heart from a true Southerner, not a liberal wanna be.


Here you go again!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Carrotta said:


> Why is that person presuming she wouldn't have been born with another body anyway?
> 
> I'm not convinced an abortion prevents a person from being born.


That's an interesting way to see it. The person is the soul; the body is the vehicle it's in. If one body is recalled, there'll be another one available soon enough.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Carrotta said:


> Why is that person presuming she wouldn't have been born with another body anyway?
> 
> I'm not convinced an abortion prevents a person from being born.


I do not understand your meaning. Can you explain for me?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Australia is a continent.
> 
> So the one American that was murdered has less value than any other person murdered? So we should only by 1/300th as sad, and you get to be sadder because more Australians died?
> 
> They do have concrete for brains since nothing gets through it. Disagreeing with Obama has nothing to do with race. If that were the case, since Blacks are less than 20% of the population, he never could have won. But a true example of racism is Harry Reid having a temper tantrum over the Hobby Lobby law suit. He said 5 white men voted for the defense. Guess Justice Thomas isn't black enough for him. See race becomes an issue only when libs have nothing else to use to defend Obama's inability to be an effective president.


Justice Clarence Thomas is a pig, no matter his race. He is a misogynist. It just worked to very conservatives benefit that he is African American. Do we have tokenism in this country? Yes we do and both sides exhibit and use it whenever it is to their advantage.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Carrota said:


> I'm saying that the soul of a person is separate from the shell they eventually live in.
> 
> Just because a fetus is aborted doesn't mean the PERSON has been aborted.


I agree, but did not want to presume this is what you meant. Insoulment (sp?) happens at birth not conception.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Justice Clarence Thomas is a pig, no matter his race. He is a misogynist. It just worked to very conservatives benefit that he is African American. Do we have tokenism in this country? Yes we do and both sides exhibit and use it whenever it is to their advantage.


. . . .and he suffers from mutism . . .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey, I think what we're all saying is we'd like to know the real you, instead of what we usually see too much of....pro-life tracts. 

I understand if you don't feel comfortable sharing personal things with us, but I hope you'll take a chance one day before we lose the chance.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry
> They are stunning. That lace skirt is just flirty enough without being too revealing.


What? No slip? Peek a boo.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I read this to my hubby and we both had a good laugh. In order for us to get her to a senior center, she would first have to acknowledge that she IS a senior. That'll never happen. She's got a thing about her age. She will NEVER be a "senior citizen". When I was scouting out places for them to live, she gave me a list of demands that would ONLY fit a senior living place. I found one. It was perfect. But when I said it was a senior living facility, nope! But then I told her I'd found another one that was for people over the age of fifty (it was the same one), yup! That was perfect. I think we'd have to tie her up and gag her to drop her off at a senior citizens center. The complex she's in also has lots of activities for the seniors, including a bus to take them places. But she'll never go. She's not interested in doing anything (except watch tv) and hasn't been since I've known her (38 years). I can't imagine her ever getting involved in anything independently or otherwise. She's a stubborn self centered woman. And we'll just have to deal with it. But thank you for the suggestions. For most people they would be wonderful.


I think that your MIL is my mother's twin, lol.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good thoughts!



Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> "stroke her" by saying that since she does not act like any Senior nor wants to be one, you are so happy that she is so independent (that should puzzle her). Depart by saying that you are going to enjoy your time with husband and friends to the fullest now that she is settled. IF she bugs you, be frank and say, it sounds like you do need Senior assistance, we will look for it. It MAY keep her from bothering you too much. Trying to help. Don't let her run your Life. Huck


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps meeting just one person who lost a mate would open the floodgates.



Poor Purl said:


> What I think she needs most is friends, not Senior assistance. Friends would talk her into getting the assistance.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, it's worse than sad; it's disgusting. To continue carrying a grudge for that long is a sign of sickness.


       :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good girl Shirley. More energy to spend in constructive ways.



Designer1234 said:


> Was going to answer, changed my mind.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Was going to answer, changed my mind.


You could always find a nice wall to talk to,lol...

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have a nice day from a true liberal.



lovethelake said:


> Nice racist comment from such a tolerant LWNJ. Classic liberal hypocrisy they 'feel' they can make racists comments because other libs say liberals make racists comments. Wonder what the Jewish community would think if you were to call one of the Supremes a 'token Jew'? Bet the sparks would fly.
> 
> Bless your heart from a true Southerner, not a liberal wanna be.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I Was Conceived in Rape But I Didnt Deserve Death in Abortion
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put!



peacegoddess said:


> Justice Clarence Thomas is a pig, no matter his race. He is a misogynist. It just worked to very conservatives benefit that he is African American. Do we have tokenism in this country? Yes we do and both sides exhibit and use it whenever it is to their advantage.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I assume that's the only good news on Thomas.



alcameron said:


> . . . .and he suffers from mutism . . .


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nice racist comment from such a tolerant LWNJ. Classic liberal hypocrisy they 'feel' they can make racists comments because other libs say liberals make racists comments. Wonder what the Jewish community would think if you were to call one of the Supremes a 'token Jew'? Bet the sparks would fly.
> 
> Bless your heart from a true Southerner, not a liberal wanna be.


Everyone knows where your "bless your heart" comes from, true southerner, (Confederate flag-flying, maybe?) and right back atcha. As for any "token Jews," I don't know any; the Jewish people I know either own or are in high positions in their companies. No "tokens" there.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting way to see it. The person is the soul; the body is the vehicle it's in. If one body is recalled, there'll be another one available soon enough.


Do the souls reside in "the world to come?"


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> . . . .and he suffers from mutism . . .
> 
> But he has a pulse!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Is it scientific fact that he has a pulse? Gee, maybe he's a great big puppet with someone's hand up his . . . . back


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is it scientific fact that he has a pulse? Gee, maybe he's a great big puppet with someone's hand up his . . . . back


Mighty big hand, I must say.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> What? No slip? Peek a boo.


Hussy!

:shock: :shock:   :shock: :shock:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have to write something as it seems these posts have stopped coming. I have nothing worthwhile to add that has not been already stated. Keep up the good fight!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> You could always find a nice wall to talk to,lol...
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


It would make more sense than trying to answer (chuckle).


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Everyone knows where your "bless your heart" comes from, true southerner, (Confederate flag-flying, maybe?) and right back atcha. As for any "token Jews," I don't know any; the Jewish people I know either own or are in high positions in their companies. No "tokens" there.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I assume that's the only good news on Thomas.


I was about to write that he wasn't _suffering _from mutism; he prefers it. You beat me.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Good girl Shirley. More energy to spend in constructive ways.


I decided to have a nap instead. Feel very refeshed!.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Do the souls reside in "the world to come?"


You're asking someone who doesn't believe souls exist.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Everyone knows where your "bless your heart" comes from, true southerner, (Confederate flag-flying, maybe?) and right back atcha. As for any "token Jews," I don't know any; the Jewish people I know either own or are in high positions in their companies. No "tokens" there.


This feeds the stereotype that Jews have all the money and all the power. There are Jews on Welfare, too.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> There is a history of this sort of behavior in the area. The Cossacks rampaged through parts of Russia for generations destroying villages, raping and plundering along the way. Their pogroms are what drove many of my grandparents' generation to England, the US, Canada, the Netherlands, and other civilized countries where they could find work and live in peace.


I would love to know where there ISN'T a history of that sort of behavior.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not understand your meaning. Can you explain for me?


There are many of us who believe that the soul returns to earth as many cycles as it needs to.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This feeds the stereotype that Jews have all the money and all the power. There are Jews on Welfare, too.


Poor Purl
I think that is because the Right wants them to go in that direction. Personal observation.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Putin is pulling all the strings.


He must think he is a US leader.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that is because the Right wants them to go in that direction. Personal observation.


It's a very old stereotype, going back at least to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I don't think the Right in the US has much to do with it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wonder what she is up to. Wearing that skirt walking over the grates in New York? Waiting to see what her Twin is buying.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What I think she needs most is friends, not Senior assistance. Friends would talk her into getting the assistance.


And maybe an anti-depressant or a different anti-depressant. How long has her husband been gone?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's a very old stereotype, going back at least to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I don't think the Right in the US has much to do with it.


Poor Purl
I may not have made myself very clear. I meant certain people becoming less independent is what the right is aiming for. They are looking for control of many of us.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Hello. My Girls are on a 2nd outing in New York with their new outfits.


Tres chic!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> And maybe an anti-depressant or a different anti-depressant. How long has her husband been gone?


Knitanon
Sure go for the Pills, that heals everything. Poor choice.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder what she is up to. Wearing that skirt walking over the grates in New York? Waiting to see what her Twin is buying.


Love the doll's accessories. Maroon and gold are my high school colors.

My mother used to get her shoes at Bonwit Teller and one summer I found gold canvas sneakers with maroon crepe soles for gym class. Unfortunately nothing could make the gunny sack gym suits look anything but ugly. We looked like maroon potato sacks tied up in the middle.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Tres chic!


Kniter frm Nebraska
Thank you. Your Avatar indicates that you knit, may we see some of your creations?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huckleberry
> They are stunning. That lace skirt is just flirty enough without being too revealing.


I'd need a lining. Too risque for me.  :lol:


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Sure go for the Pills, that heals everything. Poor choice.


Yes, because with all the stressors she has faced recently and the current living situation who could possibly need medication?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Love the doll's accessories. Maroon and gold are my high school colors.
> 
> My mother used to get her shoes at Bonwit Teller and one summer I found gold canvas sneakers with maroon crepe soles for gym class. Unfortunately nothing could make the gunny sack gym suits look anything but ugly. We looked like maroon potato sacks tied up in the middle.


MarilynKnits
that is a cute description of your sports attire. I am knitting up some left-over yarn and for dolls I go for colors and color combinations I would not use for myself. I do like the maroon and gold. Did some blue and gold as well. That looked swell.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder what she is up to. Wearing that skirt walking over the grates in New York? Waiting to see what her Twin is buying.


Huck, that's what keeps the Big Apple so exciting. She looks adorable in that skirt.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I may not have made myself very clear. I meant certain people becoming less independent is what the right is aiming for. They are looking for control of many of us.


They want us all on Welfare? Then they can cut the safety net out from under us. What joy that would bring them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd need a lining. Too risque for me.  :lol:


Are you as svelte as Huck's doll? If so, it might make an interesting outfit for you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The right wants people to be* independent.* It is the left who is increasing dependency. Otherwise why would all of the government programs be advertising to get more people in them.


That's certainly what the RW wants us to think. But so little of what they say turns out to be true that I'd tend to believe Huck.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The right wants people to be* independent.* It is the left who is increasing dependency. Otherwise why would all of the government programs be advertising to get more people in them.


joeysomma
They do? Why so much recruiting for CERTAIN things? The left gives a hand-up which usually leads to self-sufficiency. If we could only get the GOP get off of their ugly attitude and release funds for Infrastructure which will give THOUSANDS of People good paying and steady jobs and get them off of any sort of assistance. The GOP actually wants social programs in hopes that some people think it is the doing of the Democrats.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, that's what keeps the Big Apple so exciting. She looks adorable in that skirt.


Poor Purl
can't beat New York when it comes to exitement. Used to do most of my Holiday shopping there. Such variety of high fashion, only to be found in two other Cities, Dallas and Chicago.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> "stroke her" by saying that since she does not act like any Senior nor wants to be one, you are so happy that she is so independent (that should puzzle her). Depart by saying that you are going to enjoy your time with husband and friends to the fullest now that she is settled. IF she bugs you, be frank and say, it sounds like you do need Senior assistance, we will look for it. It MAY keep her from bothering you too much. Trying to help. Don't let her run your Life. Huck


Thanks for the suggestion. I have my limits. I think she'll be a little careful. A few years back, she pushed me too far. As a guest in my home, she complained about everything and yelled at me when my hubby was gone. My soap dried out her hands. My (unscented) lotion smelled bad. My coffee and tea were the wrong kind. She likes Kleenex instead of Puffs. My toilet paper was too thick for plumbing, I should use her kind. My "Rubbermaid" sink mats smelled like rubber. She wanted to shower in our master bath instead of the guest bath. She complained about every meal I cooked. It went on and on and on. After they left, I refused to speak with her or have anything to do with her until she apologized. It took one year and eight months before she did. Until then, she wasn't invited to any family gatherings that I hosted and she didn't go to any of the kid's gatherings because I would not allow free hotel services. So while she's still demanding she knows she can't push me too far and she's always sickeningly sweet while making her demands. So as I said, I have my limits. She can do what she wants but I'm not going to let her destroy my life. When she can no longer take care of herself, she'll need to go to a nursing home because I will not be able to do it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope you mean Medicare. Medicaid is for low-income earners, and I hope she'll never qualify for that.


Oops! Yup, that's what I meant.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> There are many of us who believe that the soul returns to earth as many cycles as it needs to.


I have it written in my will that I absolutely refuse to recycle. This is it. Done. Kaput.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What I think she needs most is friends, not Senior assistance. Friends would talk her into getting the assistance.


She's never really had friends that weren't wives of her husband's friends. She's too self centered. Nobody wants to be friends with someone who only cares about themselves. You can't even carry out a conversation without her interrupting and trying to bring it back to being about her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I have my limits. I think she'll be a little careful. A few years back, she pushed me too far. As a guest in my home, she complained about everything and yelled at me when my hubby was gone. My soap dried out her hands. My (unscented) lotion smelled bad. My coffee and tea were the wrong kind. She likes Kleenex instead of Puffs. My toilet paper was too thick for plumbing, I should use her kind. My "Rubbermaid" sink mats smelled like rubber. She wanted to shower in our master bath instead of the guest bath. She complained about every meal I cooked. It went on and on and on. After they left, I refused to speak with her or have anything to do with her until she apologized. It took one year and eight months before she did. Until then, she wasn't invited to any family gatherings that I hosted and she didn't go to any of the kid's gatherings because I would not allow free hotel services. So while she's still demanding she knows she can't push me too far and she's always sickeningly sweet while making her demands. So as I said, I have my limits. She can do what she wants but I'm not going to let her destroy my life. When she can no longer take care of herself, she'll need to go to a nursing home because I will not be able to do it.


Knitter from Nebraska
now that is the spirit. She needs to tip-toe, not you. I am the first one to pitch in when someone needs a hand but I have never allowed anyone to make a doormat of me. Stand your ground with your dear husband and enjoy your Life to the fullest, she has had hers. We never now what is around the bend for any of us. I wish you happiness. Huck


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She's never really had friends that weren't wives of her husband's friends. She's too self centered. Nobody wants to be friends with someone who only cares about themselves. You can't even carry out a conversation without her interrupting and trying to bring it back to being about her.


Knitter from Nebraska
I think I have met her - my doorbell is mute when she rings. Got a Camera to see who is seeking entry. What a wonderful invention.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd need a lining. Too risque for me.  :lol:


Knitter from Nebraska
look at it as very airy. Nice for a hot summer day.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes. But the Saudis in partnership with the big oil companies are working on getting a pipeline built from Saudi Arabia. That's what the fights in the middle east are about, especially Syria. They want to run the pipeline through Syria and Assad won't let them. They are allies with Russia. Its all connected to oil, money and power.


That could explain why Putin wants to take the Crimea back as part of Russia. It was part of Russia until 1954 when Khrushchev gifted it to the Ukraine. He did that to make himself look generous. It was his favourite holiday destination. Oil and gas were not in the equation then.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> distance is no excuse for not being close. My Sister is on the other side of the Country and we speak to each other every day. She has a husband, grandchildren who visit daily, a business and still we find time to visit. We will never have regrets once one of us is gone.


We used to speak about twice a week. But then she started running. She works til five and then she runs two hours every evening, no matter the weather. And she must be in bed by nine. So she has very little time to do anything else and loves to talk with her kids and granddaughters. She also takes many trips to visit them. We hadn't talked for several months (not by my choice) but we've gotten back in touch recently and have been talking once a week. I look forward to her retiring.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, because with all the stressors she has faced recently and the current living situation who could possibly need medication?


Knitanon
sounds like that is your preferred remedy. Would never be mine. I focus on walks, a good book, good music and hobbies and then there is PBS and the History Channel. Much healthier.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> can't beat New York when it comes to exitement. Used to do most of my Holiday shopping there. Such variety of high fashion, only to be found in two other Cities, Dallas and Chicago.


Dallas???????????


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Joey, I think what we're all saying is we'd like to know the real you, instead of what we usually see too much of....pro-life tracts.
> 
> I understand if you don't feel comfortable sharing personal things with us, but I hope you'll take a chance one day before we lose the chance.


I'd like to learn more about everyone on here.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I think that your MIL is my mother's twin, lol.


Oh, lucky you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We used to speak about twice a week. But then she started running. She works til five and then she runs two hours every evening, no matter the weather. And she must be in bed by nine. So she has very little time to do anything else and loves to talk with her kids and granddaughters. She also takes many trips to visit them. We hadn't talked for several months (not by my choice) but we've gotten back in touch recently and have been talking once a week. I look forward to her retiring.


Knitter from Nebraska
I hear your longing for her and hope that she learns what is the most important part of Life, it isn't running.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Dallas???????????


There is a great deal of money in Texas and a market for high end fashion.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Dallas???????????


SQM
yes, used to make several trips a year to Dallas for fashion shopping and so did women who had unlimited budgets (that was not me). How it is right now, I don't now, do not do my shopping there anymore, just visit friends. Always found attire there as fine as in Europe, Paris for example.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder what she is up to. Wearing that skirt walking over the grates in New York? Waiting to see what her Twin is buying.


You could write a whole story, with pictures.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You could write a whole story, with pictures.


Knitter from Nebraska
would love to, need to find the time for it. Too many projects going from which I take a break now and then and show up here.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> And maybe an anti-depressant or a different anti-depressant. How long has her husband been gone?


Her Hubby's been gone for 6 weeks today. They'd been married for 64 years. Her problem is not depression. It's that she's a very dependent, demanding, self centered woman. I might end up needing the antidepressant though.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Her Hubby's been gone for 6 weeks today. They'd been married for 64 years. Her problem is not depression. It's that she's a very dependent, demanding, self centered woman. I might end up needing the antidepressant though.


Knitter from Nebraska
I hope you can escape doing that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I may not have made myself very clear. I meant certain people becoming less independent is what the right is aiming for. They are looking for control of many of us.


Not to be called a conspiracy theorist, but I think that's what BOTH sides are doing. I definitely see the left as fostering dependence as well.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Love the doll's accessories. Maroon and gold are my high school colors.
> 
> My mother used to get her shoes at Bonwit Teller and one summer I found gold canvas sneakers with maroon crepe soles for gym class. Unfortunately nothing could make the gunny sack gym suits look anything but ugly. We looked like maroon potato sacks tied up in the middle.


Oh, those gym suits were awful! Ours were blue even though our school colors were red and black.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Not to be called a conspiracy theorist, but I think that's what BOTH sides are doing. I definitely see the left as fostering dependence as well.


Conversely we can argue that the right are creating an environment in which people are forced into dependence by low wages that don't keep up with the cost of living and lack of jobs due to outsourcing work to other countries.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Kniter frm Nebraska
> Thank you. Your Avatar indicates that you knit, may we see some of your creations?


I hate to admit that I am computer illiterate. I've never learned to post pictures. That's why I don't even have an avatar. What's really funny is that my hubby and all of my boys are computer fanatics and all work in the field of computers, one way or another. I was just never interested until after I'd had cancer. With chemobrain, I was lucky I could learn any of it. I think I'd like to learn now though.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> yes, used to make several trips a year to Dallas for fashion shopping and so did women who had unlimited budgets (that was not me). How it is right now, I don't now, do not do my shopping there anymore, just visit friends. Always found attire there as fine as in Europe, Paris for example.


Wow and interesting. Why do I picture all the women dressed like Annie Oakley?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, because with all the stressors she has faced recently and the current living situation who could possibly need medication?


Believe me! Its those around her that need medication! She's only ever cared about herself and that hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is WHO'S going to take care of her. When her husband died, the first words out of her mouth were, "Who's going to take care of me? He always took care of me.".


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, those gym suits were awful! Ours were blue even though our school colors were red and black.


You brought back a memory. We wore blue one-piece gym suits. Horrible and traumatizing. Kids can wear whatever they want now.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> sounds like that is your preferred remedy. Would never be mine. I focus on walks, a good book, good music and hobbies and then there is PBS and the History Channel. Much healthier.


We aren't talking about remedies for you, though. 
As has been made quite clear this woman doesn't do friendships or activities that include helping others. She has had a spouse die, has moved twice in a couple of months and has little family that cares about her. 
I am glad that you don't need to consider anything but good music and hobbies to improve your state of mind. 
Me, I don't even care if it is good music so long as it makes me tap my feet.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hate to admit that I am computer illiterate. I've never learned to post pictures. That's why I don't even have an avatar. What's really funny is that my hubby and all of my boys are computer fanatics and all work in the field of computers, one way or another. I was just never interested until after I'd had cancer. With chemobrain, I was lucky I could learn any of it. I think I'd like to learn now though.


It is never too late to learn. See whether your local library or community college had beginner courses with small classes. You would probably enjoy them. One of my knitting friends took classes at the county library when she was 83 and really loved them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> that is a cute description of your sports attire. I am knitting up some left-over yarn and for dolls I go for colors and color combinations I would not use for myself. I do like the maroon and gold. Did some blue and gold as well. That looked swell.


Huck, she needs her spiked heels with her haute couture.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Wow and interesting. Why do I picture all the women dressed like Annie Oakley?


Dallas women are usually more fashionably dressed than many New York women, except for the wealthy ones.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're asking someone who doesn't believe souls exist.


Okay, I was asking from the Jewish perspective. I think secular humanism makes sense, myself.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Believe me! Its those around her that need medication! She's only ever cared about herself and that hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is WHO'S going to take care of her. When her husband died, the first words out of her mouth were, "Who's going to take care of me? He always took care of me.".


I am beginning to have some sympathy for the MIL. She probably was cared for her entire life and this is the first time she will be living alone. The loss of a mate is very traumatizing for very old people. I understand she was always difficult but now she is in super scared mode. A huge adjustment and harder the older you get.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Huck, she needs her spiked heels with her haute couture.


Not if she wants to walk!!! My high heel days are over. Give me my Merrells and Sketchers.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This feeds the stereotype that Jews have all the money and all the power. There are Jews on Welfare, too.


Of course there are; I just don't know any. If I appear to be feeding into the stereotype, that was not my intention. I really 
can't explain my thoughts well enough without creating a bigger misunderstanding along this vein. My perceptions of Jewish people are hard-working, thrifty, and valuing of education and family.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you as svelte as Huck's doll? If so, it might make an interesting outfit for you.


No, not quite! I'm much shorter and carry about 20lbs more, all around the middle. Haha! But even when I was a skinny minny, I was too modest for such exposure.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> now that is the spirit. She needs to tip-toe, not you. I am the first one to pitch in when someone needs a hand but I have never allowed anyone to make a doormat of me. Stand your ground with your dear husband and enjoy your Life to the fullest, she has had hers. We never now what is around the bend for any of us. I wish you happiness. Huck


Thanks, Huck!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If she doesn't like being thought of as a senior, the phrase might annoy her. On the other hand, doing what your friends do makes you normal, therefore not a senior.


I can see a reluctance to accept the term 'senior citizen'. My mother was never a 'senior citizen' in her eyes, she did not join the senior's clubs. She said they were full of old people who had forgotten how to think. I could see her point. She remained alert until she died, up to date with current world events and would discuss anything and everything. She loved to read and never missed the news. She was only 88 when she died. I do not like seniors clubs, some of the members can be very cliche and do not welcome new members. I went along to the local gardening club, all retired people. Some were friendly, others not. I was told by several members that I could not sit there because their friend always sat in that chair. I just waited until everyone arrived and took the vacant seat, if there was no vacant seat I stood. Not very welcoming considering half the seats were empty when I arrived. A lot of people were more interested in the morning tea table than the talk by the visiting gardener. The President often had to cut the talk short as the members were getting edgy, it was overrunning the coffee break. "Go and get a coffee and cake, quick before they are all gone" I was told. I thought "never, there is enough food there to feed an army. It does not matter if all the cream and chocolate cakes go, I am happy with a plain biscuit, cookie to Americans. Wrong, that food disappeared as if a swarm of locusts had hit the hall. Not even a crumb left. Some of the members had six cakes on their plates, some even snapped up the broken biscuits. They could not eat all that sweet stuff at one sitting, I am sure some of them put it in their baskets to take home. I also saw what mum meant, they were not interested in discussing current events. "Oh I don't know anything about that, I never listen to the news", "no, computers, ipods and all that junk are only for teenagers" were typical comments. I stopped going. I prefer the gym, there is a great range of ages, teens to over 80, and we all talk, most of us do. The younger members tell us what they are doing and often ask the oldies for advice. The oldies show an interest in their football team, netball team. Senior citizens clubs can be depressing if the members just sit, some of them are not very welcoming to strangers.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> There are many of us who believe that the soul returns to earth as many cycles as it needs to.


Some even believe that this is what Jesus meant when he said "ye must be born again" to enter the kingdom of heaven.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I think I have met her - my doorbell is mute when she rings. Got a Camera to see who is seeking entry. What a wonderful invention.


Haha! I've got caller ID.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> look at it as very airy. Nice for a hot summer day.


Snort, snort! VERY airy! :lol: :lol:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Lets start with the pipeline, if you really want jobs. In 2009 Obama was given the stimulus for infrastructure and all those shovel ready jobs that weren't so shovel ready. I do believe most of it went to green jobs that went bankrupt.
> We don't have the money now. And I don't believe he would use it for that purpose anyway.


joeysomma
the Pipeline? Not healthy for our environment nor does it provide many jobs. There are many shovel ready jobs the GOP is determined not to give to those who need them. If we don't have the money now, we will never have it. Nothing will EVER cost down the road what is costs now. Expenditures will multiply over time so I vote for spending it now and who knows what interest we will have to pay in the future, it certainly will not be less than now. I thought you are into numbers, proof it.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Sure go for the Pills, that heals everything. Poor choice.


Sometimes a low dose of an antidepressant can help with an adjustment of that magnitude. Pills don't heal everything(don't I wish!) but don't dismiss them so off-the-cuff.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The right wants people to be* independent.* It is the left who is increasing dependency. Otherwise why would all of the government programs be advertising to get more people in them.


What is the right doing to foster independence?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Some even believe that this is what Jesus meant when he said "ye must be born again" to enter the kingdom of heaven.


Ah, I had no idea that Jesus said that.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I have my limits. I think she'll be a little careful. A few years back, she pushed me too far. As a guest in my home, she complained about everything and yelled at me when my hubby was gone. My soap dried out her hands. My (unscented) lotion smelled bad. My coffee and tea were the wrong kind. She likes Kleenex instead of Puffs. My toilet paper was too thick for plumbing, I should use her kind. My "Rubbermaid" sink mats smelled like rubber. She wanted to shower in our master bath instead of the guest bath. She complained about every meal I cooked. It went on and on and on. After they left, I refused to speak with her or have anything to do with her until she apologized. It took one year and eight months before she did. Until then, she wasn't invited to any family gatherings that I hosted and she didn't go to any of the kid's gatherings because I would not allow free hotel services. So while she's still demanding she knows she can't push me too far and she's always sickeningly sweet while making her demands. So as I said, I have my limits. She can do what she wants but I'm not going to let her destroy my life. When she can no longer take care of herself, she'll need to go to a nursing home because I will not be able to do it.


Way to go.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

maysmom said:


> What is the right doing to foster independence?


Helping them see the value of eating dirt?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, lucky you!


 Not!! LOL!!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am beginning to have some sympathy for the MIL. She probably was cared for her entire life and this is the first time she will be living alone. The loss of a mate is very traumatizing for very old people. I understand she was always difficult but now she is in super scared mode. A huge adjustment and harder the older you get.


Depends upon the person, too. My mother was always taken care of. My grandfather pretty much did her thinking when she was young. She was a gifted pianist, so she practiced and never learned to cook or do other household work. After college she married Daddy who then took over. He was the renaissance man who could cook, sew, etc., and she got a civil service job and aced every test for advancement. She did knit and crochet beautifully. They usually either ate out or at one or the other of my grandmothers. After they had me, she kept working and my grandmother took care of me.

After my father passed away, she had quite an adjustment to make, but she managed her life on her own half way across the country from me. She employed someone to do the yard, someone to clean, and had Meals on Wheels or take out to eat. All she could cook pretty much was scrambled eggs or tuna salad. But she was never a complainer. When her mental health had deteriorated to where we had to bring her here with us, she needed a professionally run environment. We had a good clean assisted living very near and D or I visited every day.

Fortunately for me my inclinations about how to live are more like my grandfather and father, and I am very independent. D does the outside chores and vacuums and does the kitchen floor. I do the rest of the inside stuff, shop, cook, and do laundry. We work together on most repairs like plumbing with me handing him tools so he doesn't have to get up and down and aggravate his knees and back.

I am more like you in that I can't see either of us being hot house flowers letting life happen to us. We make it happen.

Do hope you can get away once or twice a year at least for a spa day with a facial, a massage, maybe a mani-pedi, to spoil yourself and just feel relaxed and good. You are certainly earning it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> I'm sorry, but your comments about your MIL have gone from understandable frustrations to disdainful resentments about the very core of her being.
> 
> Truly, you really shouldnt have taken her in if you resented her so personally. (which seems to have started long before she came to live with you.)
> 
> ...


HulusMinus
read before you leap. You are way off base. And may I remind you that there are some people in this World who know no compassion, are self-sentered, expect everything from others and never give anything themselves KFN's MIL seems to be one of those. I am in KFN's corner. Her MIL is an egotistical person who disrupts everyone-else's life and that is so unfair. She should have had my Dad as a Son, he would have put her straight. His Mother was just like her and made my Mom's Life a living Hell until Dad stepped in and laid down the rules. Boy, oh boy, the impact he had. Mom finally had some Peace and so did the rest of the Family. KFN's MIL's illness is Egotism. I am sure if she suffered from Dementia and had otherwise always been a nice person, the story told would be quite different. You are comparing Water with Oil.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I can see a reluctance to accept the term 'senior citizen'. My mother was never a 'senior citizen' in her eyes, she did not join the senior's clubs. She said they were full of old people who had forgotten how to think. I could see her point. She remained alert until she died, up to date with current world events and would discuss anything and everything. She loved to read and never missed the news. She was only 88 when she died. I do not like seniors clubs, some of the members can be very cliche and do not welcome new members. I went along to the local gardening club, all retired people. Some were friendly, others not. I was told by several members that I could not sit there because their friend always sat in that chair. I just waited until everyone arrived and took the vacant seat, if there was no vacant seat I stood. Not very welcoming considering half the seats were empty when I arrived. A lot of people were more interested in the morning tea table than the talk by the visiting gardener. The President often had to cut the talk short as the members were getting edgy, it was overrunning the coffee break. "Go and get a coffee and cake, quick before they are all gone" I was told. I thought "never, there is enough food there to feed an army. It does not matter if all the cream and chocolate cakes go, I am happy with a plain biscuit, cookie to Americans. Wrong, that food disappeared as if a swarm of locusts had hit the hall. Not even a crumb left. Some of the members had six cakes on their plates, some even snapped up the broken biscuits. They could not eat all that sweet stuff at one sitting, I am sure some of them put it in their baskets to take home. I also saw what mum meant, they were not interested in discussing current events. "Oh I don't know anything about that, I never listen to the news", "no, computers, ipods and all that junk are only for teenagers" were typical comments. I stopped going. I prefer the gym, there is a great range of ages, teens to over 80, and we all talk, most of us do. The younger members tell us what they are doing and often ask the oldies for advice. The oldies show an interest in their football team, netball team. Senior citizens clubs can be depressing if the members just sit, some of them are not very welcoming to strangers.


I sort of think the township Senior Club is like that. I have paid the dues but never gone to the meetings, the monthly lunch, the monthly birthday party. I get the feeling it is a bunch of cliquey old yentas.

I go to the Senior center for exercise classes three times a week and to the knitting group once a week. Most of us in those activities don't go to the meeting. They have assigned tables and a rotating schedule of who helps serve the food. But the $15 annual membership entitles you to all the exercise classes and to have your blood pressure checked monthly by a Visiting Nurse. Not a bad deal.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> I'm sorry, but your comments about your MIL have gone from understandable frustrations to disdainful resentments about the very core of her being.
> 
> Truly, you really shouldnt have taken her in if you resented her so personally. (which seems to have started long before she came to live with you.)
> 
> ...


You are being harsh with KFN, Hulu. I've been in her shoes, caring for my grandmother and mother with dementia and my grandfather and father with terminal cancer. I've been a nurse working with elderly residents for 25 years. If KFN didn't care, her MIL would have been in a nursing home as soon as her FIL passed. If she wants to come here and vent, that is her right and I'm glad she has support here. No caregiver needs to be a martyr or saint.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Ah, I had no idea that Jesus said that.


Too many years of bible-reading will put things into the mind.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have it written in my will that I absolutely refuse to recycle. This is it. Done. Kaput.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> HulusMinus
> read before you leap. You are way off base. And may I remind you that there are some people in this World who know no compassion, are self-sentered, expect everything from others and never give anything themselves KFN's MIL seems to be one of those. I am in KFN's corner. Her MIL is an egotistical person who disrupts everyone-else's life and that is so unfair. She should have had my Dad as a Son, he would have put her straight. His Mother was just like her and made my Mom's Life a living Hell until Dad stepped in and laid down the rules. Boy, oh boy, the impact he had. Mom finally had some Peace and so did the rest of the Family. KFN's MIL's illness is Egotism. I am sure if she suffered from Dementia and had otherwise always been a nice person, the story told would be quite different. You are comparing Water with Oil.


Huck, that is exactly how I view Nebraska's situation. She is doing more than most daughters or daughters in law would do in light of how she is being taken for granted and treated like a servant by her MIL.

I am glad she has this forum where she can vent and let out her frustrations. We are her safety valve and I hope our friendship and understanding is helping her maintain her sanity. Her husband sounds as if he is doing whatever he can to take pressure off her, and her younger generation also seems to be pitching in where they can.

If she were not such a good hearted person, she would have said she was not doing this and gone on strike long ago.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am beginning to have some sympathy for the MIL. She probably was cared for her entire life and this is the first time she will be living alone. The loss of a mate is very traumatizing for very old people. I understand she was always difficult but now she is in super scared mode. A huge adjustment and harder the older you get.


SQM
why is she so demanding when she feels she needs people to assist her with everything? Does that speak of appreciation? It does not. Have been around many older folks who lost their Mates, yes, they miss them terribly but they have been kind, considerate, thankful that others take over where their spouse left of. I see her in a different light simply by experience, her husband did everything for her and that was still not enough and now she demands everything from her Son and his wife to compensate. I bet she is one of those people that nobody can please. Thank goodness she is not the rule, just too bad that some Families have a creature like that in their midst.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> I read. She should'nt have taken her in if she can't let the past go and find compassion. I didn't compare her mother with a dementia patient other than to say dealing with an egotist, which my FIL was, is a walk in the park in comparison.
> 
> I promise you, her MIL may be a *itch on wheels, but if KfN can't muster some forgiveness and compassion, she needs to find a place for her ASAP where she can be with people who don't hate her and can live out her days with SOME semblance of dignity.
> 
> I said I'd say no more, and I will stick to that now.


Good.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She's never really had friends that weren't wives of her husband's friends. She's too self centered. Nobody wants to be friends with someone who only cares about themselves. You can't even carry out a conversation without her interrupting and trying to bring it back to being about her.


I guess she's insecure about other subjects so sticks to what she knows: herself.

On second thought, I bet she's critical of other women, not just you. Hard to make friends if that's how you are.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> HulusMinus
> read before you leap. You are way off base. And may I remind you that there are some people in this World who know no compassion, are self-sentered, expect everything from others and never give anything themselves KFN's MIL seems to be one of those. I am in KFN's corner. Her MIL is an egotistical person who disrupts everyone-else's life and that is so unfair. She should have had my Dad as a Son, he would have put her straight. His Mother was just like her and made my Mom's Life a living Hell until Dad stepped in and laid down the rules. Boy, oh boy, the impact he had. Mom finally had some Peace and so did the rest of the Family. KFN's MIL's illness is Egotism. I am sure if she suffered from Dementia and had otherwise always been a nice person, the story told would be quite different. You are comparing Water with Oil.


Oh, I am sorry. I didn't realize that you had actually MET the mother in law.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> It's more than an old stereotype as the Nazi's claimed the Jews had all the money that was "rightfully" German money.. That sterotype was used to rile up resentment against Jews so that.Gemans would feel "justified" in "taking back their country" as as Sarah Palin so often put it.


Hitler picked up the idea from the Protocols. Even now, every few years, some group brings it up as if it had never been proved to be fiction.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> I read. She should'nt have taken her in if she can't let the past go and find compassion. I didn't compare her mother with a dementia patient other than to say dealing with an egotist, which my FIL was, is a walk in the park in comparison.
> 
> I promise you, her MIL may be a *itch on wheels, but if KfN can't muster some forgiveness and compassion, she needs to find a place for her ASAP where she can be with people who don't hate her and can live out her days with SOME semblance of dignity.
> I said I'd say no more, and I will stick to that now.


HuluMinus
again, read before you leap. You are missing some important points. KFN and her husband are entitled to a life of their own, don't you think so? The MIL is not looking for dignity, she is looking to rule the roost. Some Names in the dictionary did not get there by accident, they got there by experience. They are there to depict us and kind old Lady is not one that would fit this MIL. I wish that KFN had a Mother-in-Law like I had, an absolute Angel.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Okay, I was asking from the Jewish perspective. I think secular humanism makes sense, myself.


Oh, from the _Jewish_ perspective; I thought you were asking about mine. Souls are very big, and, yes, they're waiting in the world to come, for whatever.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am beginning to have some sympathy for the MIL. She probably was cared for her entire life and this is the first time she will be living alone. The loss of a mate is very traumatizing for very old people. I understand she was always difficult but now she is in super scared mode. A huge adjustment and harder the older you get.


You're absolutely right. I bet antidepressants would have a good effect on her, if she consents to take them. In some people, the entire personality seems to change.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> With that, I changed my mind.
> 
> You're hearing only one side of the story, maybe KfN is being treated like a servant, or maybe it's KfN's penchant for drama.
> 
> ...


Who'd have thought that one word could do so much? I daresay I know KFN better than you do, and I would not presume to make such dramatic judgments about KFN's "seething resentments" or "less noble reasons." Oy freakin' vey. KFN's MIL needs a 24-hr lady's maid, cook, chauffeur,
and nurse. Even Mother Teresa didn't fit that bill.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Of course there are; I just don't know any. If I appear to be feeding into the stereotype, that was not my intention. I really
> can't explain my thoughts well enough without creating a bigger misunderstanding along this vein. My perceptions of Jewish people are hard-working, thrifty, and valuing of education and family.


I think I know you well enough to understand that you didn't mean anything negative by it. That was just a sudden impression that I posted. Sorry.

But I like that "thrifty." Sounds so much better than the word we use, "cheap."


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, from the _Jewish_ perspective; I thought you were asking about mine. Souls are very big, and, yes, they're waiting in the world to come, for whatever.


My SIL recommended the book by Dara Horn "The World to Come." Very interesting.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think I know you well enough to understand that you didn't mean anything negative by it. That was just a sudden impression that I posted. Sorry.
> 
> But I like that "thrifty." Sounds so much better than the word we use, "cheap."


We could apply the same character traits to Scots folk, right?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The right wants people to be* independent.* It is the left who is increasing dependency. Otherwise why would all of the government programs be advertising to get more people in them.


So how does denying a fair wage create independence? How does continual outsourcing of jobs overseas create independence? How does restricting fair environmental laws that keep water and air clean and unpolluted create independence? We would not need as many assistance programs if big business and the politicians that support them if we had not restricted wage and labor laws that provide REAL independence.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I can see a reluctance to accept the term 'senior citizen'. My mother was never a 'senior citizen' in her eyes, she did not join the senior's clubs. She said they were full of old people who had forgotten how to think. I could see her point. She remained alert until she died, up to date with current world events and would discuss anything and everything. She loved to read and never missed the news. She was only 88 when she died. I do not like seniors clubs, some of the members can be very cliche and do not welcome new members. I went along to the local gardening club, all retired people. Some were friendly, others not. I was told by several members that I could not sit there because their friend always sat in that chair. I just waited until everyone arrived and took the vacant seat, if there was no vacant seat I stood. Not very welcoming considering half the seats were empty when I arrived. A lot of people were more interested in the morning tea table than the talk by the visiting gardener. The President often had to cut the talk short as the members were getting edgy, it was overrunning the coffee break. "Go and get a coffee and cake, quick before they are all gone" I was told. I thought "never, there is enough food there to feed an army. It does not matter if all the cream and chocolate cakes go, I am happy with a plain biscuit, cookie to Americans. Wrong, that food disappeared as if a swarm of locusts had hit the hall. Not even a crumb left. Some of the members had six cakes on their plates, some even snapped up the broken biscuits. They could not eat all that sweet stuff at one sitting, I am sure some of them put it in their baskets to take home. I also saw what mum meant, they were not interested in discussing current events. "Oh I don't know anything about that, I never listen to the news", "no, computers, ipods and all that junk are only for teenagers" were typical comments. I stopped going. I prefer the gym, there is a great range of ages, teens to over 80, and we all talk, most of us do. The younger members tell us what they are doing and often ask the oldies for advice. The oldies show an interest in their football team, netball team. Senior citizens clubs can be depressing if the members just sit, some of them are not very welcoming to strangers.


The gardening club sounds depressing, not to mention pre-diabetic. I've never gone to anything called Senior, though I've been considering volunteering at a nearby center to teach knitting.

Wait, I lie. I just remembered that, when I was in college, a local senior center had a sewing class once or twice a week, and anyone was allowed to attend, I believe for a dollar a class. A few of my friends came. We got a lot of hands-on learning there. I made a gorgeous black silk dress, and a friend made a pair of sandals (there was a shoemaking teacher, too). I wouldn't mind being a senior if there was a similar class around here.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I sort of think the township Senior Club is like that. I have paid the dues but never gone to the meetings, the monthly lunch, the monthly birthday party. I get the feeling it is a bunch of cliquey old yentas.
> 
> I go to the Senior center for exercise classes three times a week and to the knitting group once a week. Most of us in those activities don't go to the meeting. They have assigned tables and a rotating schedule of who helps serve the food. But the $15 annual membership entitles you to all the exercise classes and to have your blood pressure checked monthly by a Visiting Nurse. Not a bad deal.


EveMCooke
Marilyn Knits 
You describe some Elder Clubs so eloquently. Oh yes, those reserved chairs for some who already departed (no-one ever sits on them). The Food: the Oldies behave like the youngsters when a new IPod comes on the Market. They storm for it, take home what they cannot possibly eat then and there and throw it out at home. I do take some wheel-chair-bound people to these events and no wonder, many young want to have nothing to do with these old grouches, they are so ill behaved. And then there are older Folks who make every effort to remain among the young and are a pleasure to be with. It is wonderful to see an 86 year old tackling a computer, text on the new CellPhone and sit in a Sandbox with some little snod nosed stinky (panties on poop overload) Babe and build Sand Castles. I am planning to be the playmate and scoop the poop so we can continue playing until I cannot bend that far anymore but will make available my knees for the stinkers to sit on and read Dr. Seuss.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> HuluMinus
> again, read before you leap. You are missing some important points. KFN and her husband are entitled to a life of their own, don't you think so? The MIL is not looking for dignity, she is looking to rule the roost. Some Names in the dictionary did not get there by accident, they got there by experience. They are there to depict us and kind old Lady is not one that would fit this MIL. I wish that KFN had a Mother-in-Law like I had, an absolute Angel.


It is her own roost, she should rule it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> What is the right doing to foster independence?


Ending unemployment insurance.

Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Who'd have thought that one word could do so much? I daresay I know KFN better than you do, and I would not presume to make such dramatic judgments about KFN's "seething resentments" or "less noble reasons." Oy freakin' vey. KFN's MIL needs a 24-hr lady's maid, cook, chauffeur,
> and nurse. Even Mother Teresa didn't fit that bill.


maysmom
my sentiment exactly.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I think I know you well enough to understand that you didn't mean anything negative by it. That was just a sudden impression that I posted. Sorry.
> 
> But I like that "thrifty." Sounds so much better than the word we use, "cheap."


Don't have to be Jewish to be given that moniker, I have often referred to myself as being so cheap I squeak. 
Hmm, wonder if that is something related to shoes... 
dunno. Looked it up, no luck.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Lets start with the pipeline, if you really want jobs. In 2009 Obama was given the stimulus for infrastructure and all those shovel ready jobs that weren't so shovel ready. I do believe most of it went to green jobs that went bankrupt.
> We don't have the money now. And I don't believe he would use it for that purpose anyway.


The pipeline...really the pipeline? The amount of permanent jobs is negligible! Maybe you are thinking of the jobs that might result from the environmental degradation that occurs from pipeline rupture cleanup?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Ending unemployment insurance.
> 
> Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert...Sarcasm alert


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
True though.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

HuluMinus said:


> So she says.
> 
> And btw MANY people play lady's maid chauffeur, cook , nurse for their elderly relatives.
> 
> ...


Hear! Hear!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> It is her own roost, she should rule it.


Knitanon
Hurray, we agree on something, if you speak of KFN.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> why is she so demanding when she feels she needs people to assist her with everything? Does that speak of appreciation? It does not. Have been around many older folks who lost their Mates, yes, they miss them terribly but they have been kind, considerate, thankful that others take over where their spouse left of. I see her in a different light simply by experience, her husband did everything for her and that was still not enough and now she demands everything from her Son and his wife to compensate. I bet she is one of those people that nobody can please. Thank goodness she is not the rule, just too bad that some Families have a creature like that in their midst.


This is very interesting, Huck. You see her as being spoiled by having too easy a life. I see her as having been deprived of the chance to grow up and make a life for herself. That kind of deprivation leaves as deep a scar as the kind caused by poverty or motherlessness. It's not that she hasn't wanted to behave right - she probably doesn't know how and is afraid to try.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> That could explain why Putin wants to take the Crimea back as part of Russia. It was part of Russia until 1954 when Khrushchev gifted it to the Ukraine. He did that to make himself look generous. It was his favourite holiday destination. Oil and gas were not in the equation then.


Putin had a nice friendly relationship with Ukraine until the US got involved, funding NGO's to foment the overthrow of Ukraine's government. Khrushchev may have "gifted" the Crimea to Ukraine but it never really left Russia's hands as they'd installed a puppet government in Ukraine. Crimea is the home of Russia's only warm water port. They never intended to give it up. Everything was fine for Russia until the NGOs came in and instrumented the overthrow of Russia's puppet. The US and her allies are trying to stop Russia from having a stronghold in oil. If Russia starts supplying the world with oil, using alternative currencies, the dollar will collapse.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> Exactly, I dont pruport to know either of them, but I do know 3x's over what it's like to be in KfN's position, and I know ANY human being in the MIL's position is in an extremely vulnerable and frightening circumstance and I'm bothered by the near cruel sentiments.


I agree. And now that she's living in her own place, in a strange city, she's probably more lonely and more frightened than ever, which will just magnify all of her dependent qualities.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> So she says.
> 
> And btw MANY people play lady's maid chauffeur, cook , nurse for their elderly relatives.
> 
> ...


HuluMinus
"all ..........typical for them to be demanding"? None of my Elders have been or are except my Dad's Mom. She was Hell on wheels all of her Life. The others have been and are a delight to be with.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> now that is the spirit. She needs to tip-toe, not you. I am the first one to pitch in when someone needs a hand but I have never allowed anyone to make a doormat of me. Stand your ground with your dear husband and enjoy your Life to the fullest, she has had hers. We never now what is around the bend for any of us. I wish you happiness. Huck


I agree. You are doing more than your share -- don't accept too much (it sounds as if you will have to deal with some) bad treatment from her. She likely wont change but you can set limits. I did with my MIL and it did help. She still was difficult and nasty, but walked fairly carefully around me as she knew I would just drop out of her life and she needed me, or thought she did. Also her son (dh) was the light of her life as she told me often over the years, and no girl would ever be good enough for him. He was getting to the point where he was finished with her and told her that. Things improved a bit. Good luck, take breaks from her. It sounds as if there are others who can fill in.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

HuluMinus said:


> I read. She should'nt have taken her in if she can't let the past go and find compassion. I didn't compare her mother with a dementia patient other than to say dealing with an egotist, which my FIL was, is a walk in the park in comparison.
> 
> I promise you, her MIL may be a *itch on wheels, but if KfN can't muster some forgiveness and compassion, she needs to find a place for her ASAP where she can be with people who don't hate her and can live out her days with SOME semblance of dignity.
> 
> I said I'd say no more, and I will stick to that now.


Unless something has changed drastically, the MIL has NOT been "taken in". The MIL stayed for a couple of weeks while her place was put in order. She is now in her OWN HOME. 
I agree, people feel resentment, that "tension that could be cut with a knife" thing. That doesn't mean that the feeling is right or wrong, it just is. It is unhealthy for both of them.

If it is just venting, then it might be helpful to label the post as a vent session.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> My SIL recommended the book by Dara Horn "The World to Come." Very interesting.


I'll look into this. But the truth is, the world to come is essentially the subject of jokes to me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> I agree with this. In fact, that's my point in great part.
> 
> You can't volunarily be a doormat and then resent people for walking all over you.


HuluMinus
now you sound reasonable. Thank you. Let us however give praise to KFN for doing everything, which she needs to change.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> We could apply the same character traits to Scots folk, right?


They even save money on pants fabric by wearing kilts.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So how does denying a fair wage create independence? How does continual outsourcing of jobs overseas create independence? How does restricting fair environmental laws that keep water and air clean and unpolluted create independence? We would not need as many assistance programs if big business and the politicians that support them if we had not restricted wage and labor laws that provide REAL independence.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> HuluMinus
> again, read before you leap. You are missing some important points. KFN and her husband are entitled to a life of their own, don't you think so? The MIL is not looking for dignity, she is looking to rule the roost. Some Names in the dictionary did not get there by accident, they got there by experience. They are there to depict us and kind old Lady is not one that would fit this MIL. I wish that KFN had a Mother-in-Law like I had, an absolute Angel.


I agree l00% . If we (dh and I) had allowed it mine would have split us up happily. She tried to influence our sons against me and luckily they told their Dad -- he dealt with that in a big hurry. She was a 'sweet ' little old lady but she was also a mean one. I think KGN has the right to vent, we have invited her to do that. I think she is going the extra mile and I just hope that she can let the frustration go. There does have to be a line that can not be crossed though. It sounds as if her mil has chosen this path long before she got old. Mine did too. She told me the first time she met me that Pat could do 'so much better' and that she hoped he would realize it. Good way to start a relationship. I always wished I had had a mother-in-law that I could feel close to but my dh more than made up for that. We are a team and he never accepted any negative statements from her.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> So she says.
> 
> And btw MANY people play lady's maid chauffeur, cook , nurse for their elderly relatives.
> 
> ...


Hulu, it appears that you like being a martyr. I have done everything from changing colostomy bags and wafers to catheterizing, disimpacting, and changing gastrostomy tubes. I chose to do it but I also chose to tell the person involved that if (s)he wasn't happy with me then (s)he was free to make other arrangements. I am gentle, competent, and understanding about such procedures, and there is no need to tolerate endless anger, even from relatives. I could write books about angry elderly folks and their families and I understand where they're all coming from. You talk about setting boundaries, and it is healthy to do so. It is also healthy to vent at times. If you read her posts, KFN is not taking out anything on her MIL.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> my sentiment exactly.


I agree - it helps for her to vent here. We told her she was welcome to. It is hell when a MIL makes life miserable. Ask me how I know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is very interesting, Huck. You see her as being spoiled by having too easy a life. I see her as having been deprived of the chance to grow up and make a life for herself. That kind of deprivation leaves as deep a scar as the kind caused by poverty or motherlessness. It's not that she hasn't wanted to behave right - she probably doesn't know how and is afraid to try.


Poor Purl
I see with the eyes of someone who knows someone first hand who all of her life wanted to be taken care of and was and always played helpless. Her husband died and she now expects everyone else to take his place to please her. Her relatives visit with her regularly but they escape her presence as soon as even possible. All she wants is to be taken care of by others and she does NOTHING in return ever. She is in excellent Health, has plenty of funds but never even has a Lollipop for a youngster. Selfish creature she has been all of her life. You see, our experiences in Life form us and this is mine and the looking glass I see through.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Hulu, it appears that you like being a martyr. I have done everything from changing colostomy bags and wafers to catheterizing, disimpacting, and changing gastrostomy tubes. I chose to do it but I also chose to tell the person involved that if (s)he wasn't happy with me then (s)he was free to make other arrangements. I am gentle, competent, and understanding about such procedures, and there is no need to tolerate endless anger, even from relatives. I could write books about angry elderly folks and their families and I understand where they're all coming from. You talk about setting boundaries, and it is healthy to do so. It is also healthy to vent at times. If you read her posts, KFN is not taking out anything on her MIL.


That's not entirely fair. You're a trained nurse, so you've had paid experience with colostomy bags or catheters or the like. I don't know whether Hulu's had such experience, but if she hasn't, she's taken on a lot, caring for two old people.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I see with the eyes of someone who knows someone first hand who all of her life wanted to be taken care of and was and always played helpless. Her husband died and she now expects everyone else to take his place to please her. Her relatives visit with her regularly but they escape her presence as soon as even possible. All she wants is to be taken care of by others and she does NOTHING in return ever. She is in excellent Health, has plenty of funds but never even has a Lollipop for a youngster. Selfish creature she has been all of her life. You see, our experiences in Life form us and this is mine and the looking glass I see through.


That's certainly true. But she also had experiences in her early life that formed her. There was at some time a need to be selfish, and she never outgrew it. That's not something you should be forced to live with, true. I just think there's always a reason people are like they are.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I hear your longing for her and hope that she learns what is the most important part of Life, it isn't running.


You're right about that. But there are dynamics in my family that you probably could not understand. Our relationship with each other was hard fought and late in coming. My mother did everything she could to turn us siblings against each other. My sister and I weren't close for many years. And neither of us ever hear from our brothers. My brothers didn't even call or visit me when I had cancer.

I make every effort to keep my children involved with each other. I always got the whole family together for a big fancy breakfast every week. This past year, I've had to cut back to doing it once a month as its gotten to be too much. But we still get together for dinners etc nearly every week, in addition to the monthly breakfast. They hang out and do things together. No matter what, if one needs something, the others are there! Including the one who lives 8 hours away. Its what I always wished I'd had. I hope that my children will say that their mother was the glue that held the family together.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Hulu, it appears that you like being a martyr. I have done everything from changing colostomy bags and wafers to catheterizing, disimpacting, and changing gastrostomy tubes. I chose to do it but I also chose to tell the person involved that if (s)he wasn't happy with me then (s)he was free to make other arrangements. I am gentle, competent, and understanding about such procedures, and there is no need to tolerate endless anger, even from relatives. I could write books about angry elderly folks and their families and I understand where they're all coming from. You talk about setting boundaries, and it is healthy to do so. It is also healthy to vent at times. If you read her posts, KFN is not taking out anything on her MIL.


It is unusual for you to be so quick, maysmom, is everything OK?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> would love to, need to find the time for it. Too many projects going from which I take a break now and then and show up here.


I understand completely. I hope that someday, you'll find the time. You've talent and imagination.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> Those arent real jobs and the damage it does to the country and environment makes it a bad deal.


For once, we agree on something!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I hope you can escape doing that.


I will! I was just joking.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - it helps for her to vent here. We told her she was welcome to. It is hell when a MIL makes life miserable. Ask me how I know.


Designer1234
I saw first hand what a nasty MIL can do to a DIL. My Mom suffered tremendously until my Dad stepped in. Guts he had to stand up to his 5star General of Nasty of a Mother.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Conversely we can argue that the right are creating an environment in which people are forced into dependence by low wages that don't keep up with the cost of living and lack of jobs due to outsourcing work to other countries.


I would substitute the word "right" with the elite or the 1% or the corporatists or the crony capitalists or those with money and power etc.... I believe that the two party system is a false paradigm. They SAY diffent things but DO the same things. It doesn't matter who's in charge nothing improves for the masses.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Hulu, it appears that you like being a martyr. I have done everything from changing colostomy bags and wafers to catheterizing, disimpacting, and changing gastrostomy tubes. I chose to do it but I also chose to tell the person involved that if (s)he wasn't happy with me then (s)he was free to make other arrangements. I am gentle, competent, and understanding about such procedures, and there is no need to tolerate endless anger, even from relatives. I could write books about angry elderly folks and their families and I understand where they're all coming from. You talk about setting boundaries, and it is healthy to do so. It is also healthy to vent at times. If you read her posts, KFN is not taking out anything on her MIL.


maysmom
you are our Mother Theresa. She was caring, kind and tough as nails.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's not entirely fair. You're a trained nurse, so you've had paid experience with colostomy bags or catheters or the like. I don't know whether Hulu's had such experience, but if she hasn't, she's taken on a lot, caring for two old people.


Even if she was an MD, taking on daily care of one, let alone two, people is a lot. I did everything except the catheterization before I went to nursing school. (Changing colostomy bags isn't for the squeamish, but doesn't take long to learn.) Wasn't paid for it either. I really think Hulu would like to vent but is afraid to, so she castigates KFN for doing so.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> you are our Mother Theresa. She was caring, kind and tough as nails.


...covering head, running away.....no!....no!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

HuluMinus said:


> So she says.
> 
> And btw MANY people play lady's maid chauffeur, cook , nurse for their elderly relatives.
> 
> ...


Surprise myself. I agree with Hulu. There is something called elder abuse and I would think that a lot of people who are resentful of the care-giving role would be a potential perp. Maybe MIL is in such a fearful state that her bluster is a defense. She cannot feel safe and must keep snarling to show her strength. What a nightmare it must be to be pretty helpless and having to depend on highly resentful children. Shoot me.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Surprise myself. I agree with Hulu. There is something called elder abuse and I would think that a lot of people who are resentful of the care-giving role would be a potential perp. Maybe MIL is in such a fearful state that her bluster is a defense. She cannot feel safe and must keep snarling to show her strength. What a nightmare it must be to be pretty helpless and having to depend on highly resentful children. Shoot me.


For pity's sake, where does anyone get the idea that KFN is abusing her MIL????


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

HuluMinus said:


> With that, snark I changed my mind.
> 
> You're hearing only one side of the story, maybe KfN is being treated like a servant, or maybe it's KfN's penchant for drama.
> 
> ...


Thing is, some of us have had an ongoing dialog with Nebraska for quite a while now. She is a woman of strong faith and strong convictions. I do not share her faith nor some of her social beliefs but respect her devotion to her principles. She has not come across as a mean person nor as a whiner. As someone else who had a - shall we be kind and just say - difficult mother in law, I can empathize with her.

And until one of us has walked a day in her Crocs we really can't judge how an uberdependent and demanding person can affect her. Of course we feel sorry for her mother in law, but so many of us, husband and I included, had widowed mothers. We have many widowed friends. The ones who can put on their big girl panties and respect their husbands' memories by being women and handling their lives are the ones who make an effort on their own behalf. (Sorry, I think that is a syntax error but I am too tired to figure it out) They are the ones who command respect, not just demand it. Nobody will replace her husband and her daughter in law is not her mommy. I personally think Nebraska is going above and beyond what should be expected of her.

As I recall, her husband has siblings, all of whom dumped Mom on him. It makes one think that the rest of the family doesn't want to put up with Mom and left her on the doorstep of the ones who are too good hearted to abandon her.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Even if she was an MD, taking on daily care of one, let alone two, people is a lot. I did everything except the catheterization before I went to nursing school. (Changing colostomy bags isn't for the squeamish, but doesn't take long to learn.) Wasn't paid for it either. I really think Hulu would like to vent but is afraid to, so she castigates KFN for doing so.


maysmom
I am quite sure you are correct, Hulu is breaking under the weight of responsibility and feels guilty if she would say so. I hope she gets the strength to admit that she is getting worn out and in need of a break. Hulu, is more than entitled to voice her frustration. This is a good place to vent, she will get much support here.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I certainly don't think she does. She vents her frustration and has made it clear that she has never vented or shown frustration to his Mother. It is a situation a lot of us find ourselves in. I just hope that I never do that to my Son and his wife. 

I also learned from her to NOT interfere in any way and my son appreciates it. 

They really want us to move close to them and when we hesitated he said he really couldn't imagine us not being there close to them. That it would make all the difference to them, 
and our Grand daughter and he would help us move. Says something . We hope we can go, even though the thought of the move is rather overwhelming.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thing is, some of us have had an ongoing dialog with Nebraska for quite a while now. She is a woman of strong faith and strong convictions. I do not share her faith nor some of her social beliefs but respect her devotion to her principles. She has not come across as a mean person nor as a whiner. As someone else who had a - shall we be kind and just say - difficult mother in law, I can empathize with her.
> 
> And until one of us has walked a day in her Crocs we really can't judge how an uberdependent and demanding person can affect her. Of course we feel sorry for her mother in law, but so many of us, husband and I included, had widowed mothers. We have many widowed friends. The ones who can put on their big girl panties and respect their husbands' memories by being women and handling their lives are the ones who make an effort on their own behalf. (Sorry, I think that is a syntax error but I am too tired to figure it out) They are the ones who command respect, not just demand it. Nobody will replace her husband and her daughter in law is not her mommy. I personally think Nebraska is going above and beyond what should be expected of her.
> 
> As I recall, her husband has siblings, all of whom dumped Mom on him. It makes one think that the rest of the family doesn't want to put up with Mom and left her on the doorstep of the ones who are too good hearted to abandon her.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thing is, some of us have had an ongoing dialog with Nebraska for quite a while now. She is a woman of strong faith and strong convictions. I do not share her faith nor some of her social beliefs but respect her devotion to her principles. She has not come across as a mean person nor as a whiner. As someone else who had a - shall we be kind and just say - difficult mother in law, I can empathize with her.
> 
> And until one of us has walked a day in her Crocs we really can't judge how an uberdependent and demanding person can affect her. Of course we feel sorry for her mother in law, but so many of us, husband and I included, had widowed mothers. We have many widowed friends. The ones who can put on their big girl panties and respect their husbands' memories by being women and handling their lives are the ones who make an effort on their own behalf. (Sorry, I think that is a syntax error but I am too tired to figure it out) They are the ones who command respect, not just demand it. Nobody will replace her husband and her daughter in law is not her mommy. I personally think Nebraska is going above and beyond what should be expected of her.
> 
> As I recall, her husband has siblings, all of whom dumped Mom on him. It makes one think that the rest of the family doesn't want to put up with Mom and left her on the doorstep of the ones who are too good hearted to abandon her.


MarilynKnits
exactly the picture before my eyes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I would substitute the word "right" with the elite or the 1% or the corporatists or the crony capitalists or those with money and power etc.... I believe that the two party system is a false paradigm. They SAY diffent things but DO the same things. It doesn't matter who's in charge nothing improves for the masses.


Sorry, I don't buy this. There have been attempts to improve things for "the masses," and they've been stopped by one of the parties.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I certainly don't think she does. She vents her frustration and has made it clear that she has never vented or shown frustration to his Mother. It is a situation a lot of us find ourselves in. I just hope that I never do that to my Son and his wife.
> 
> I also learned from her to NOT interfere in any way and my son appreciates it.
> 
> ...


Designer1234
Loving Son you have and respectful MIL you are.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> For pity's sake, where does anyone get the idea that KFN is abusing her MIL????


I would bet a Thousand dollars that is not the case. She and her husband have a sense of responsibility and it can be difficult if it is hot appreciated. She is welcome to vent here rather than treat her mil badly. It sounds as if the MIL is the one who needs to abuse others. I believe every word KFN says. She has been visiting us for some time and she is honest and speaks her mind -- We told her she was welcome to vent and I personally meant it - as did the rest of us.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Even if she was an MD, taking on daily care of one, let alone two, people is a lot. I did everything except the catheterization before I went to nursing school. (Changing colostomy bags isn't for the squeamish, but doesn't take long to learn.) Wasn't paid for it either. I really think Hulu would like to vent but is afraid to, so she castigates KFN for doing so.


Okay, I didn't realize that had been before nursing. Anyway, you might be right about Hulu wanting to vent. I would if my home were being used as a nursing home.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Even if she was an MD, taking on daily care of one, let alone two, people is a lot. I did everything except the catheterization before I went to nursing school. (Changing colostomy bags isn't for the squeamish, but doesn't take long to learn.) Wasn't paid for it either. I really think Hulu would like to vent but is afraid to, so she castigates KFN for doing so.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

We are friends here -- we all can vent. I have and so have others, KFN is a friend.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> In what way? Because often what consider atives claim is a lack of freedom (like Obamacare) is actually freedom in and of itself.


In your opinion. In my opinion, any law or regulation that attempts to force a person to do something against their will, is an infringement on freedom. While you and I may disagree on which laws or regulations are worthy of forfeiting our freedoms for, the cumulative effect is the same. Already, it is impossible to calculate how many laws are on the books. Does it even matter if you think a law is good or if I do? While necessary, all laws are an infringement upon freedom. Both parties pass far more laws than we need or even know about.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> We aren't talking about remedies for you, though.
> As has been made quite clear this woman doesn't do friendships or activities that include helping others. She has had a spouse die, has moved twice in a couple of months and has little family that cares about her.
> I am glad that you don't need to consider anything but good music and hobbies to improve your state of mind.
> Me, I don't even care if it is good music so long as it makes me tap my feet.


You have no idea what you're talking about. I think you came into the discussion too late to follow it. The woman in question is my mother in law. She's moved once in 28 years, four weeks ago. She and her husband had already sold their house and planned on moving here because this is where their large, loving family is. Her husband passed away two weeks before their scheduled move. She doesn't have friends or do anything because she doesn't want to. She never has. She has no problems with depression and is very into self preservation. And in fact, to the degree that she only cares about herself. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my "venting" as not caring. That's not the case. She's an extremely difficult person and I am a very giving person. She's been in her new home for about two weeks. All of my adult children have been to visit her many times with my grandchildren. While she misses her husband, she's far from neglected. In fact the opposite is true. She'd like to run me ragged.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

maysmom said:


> For pity's sake, where does anyone get the idea that KFN is abusing her MIL????


For pity's sake, how did you miss potential?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about. I think you came into the discussion too late to follow it. The woman in question is my mother in law. She's moved once in 28 years, four weeks ago. She and her husband had already sold their house and planned on moving here because this is where their large, loving family is. Her husband passed away two weeks before their scheduled move. She doesn't have friends or do anything because she doesn't want to. She never has. She has no problems with depression and is very into self preservation. And in fact, to the degree that she only cares about herself. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my "venting" as not caring. That's not the case. She's an extremely difficult person and I am a very giving person. She's been in her new home for about two weeks. All of my adult children have been to visit her many times with my grandchildren. While she misses her husband, she's far from neglected. In fact the opposite is true. She'd like to run me ragged.


Oh! I thought she was still with you. Glad to hear that progress has been made. She can only run you ragged if you let her. Are you obligated to see her everyday? I don't think so. That seems to be more your husband's responsibility.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am beginning to have some sympathy for the MIL. She probably was cared for her entire life and this is the first time she will be living alone. The loss of a mate is very traumatizing for very old people. I understand she was always difficult but now she is in super scared mode. A huge adjustment and harder the older you get.


I have all kinds of sympathy for her. She lost a really wonderful man. You're right about her being cared for her entire life.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not if she wants to walk!!! My high heel days are over. Give me my Merrells and Sketchers.


She's Barbie. Her feet were made for heels. :lol:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about. I think you came into the discussion too late to follow it. The woman in question is my mother in law. She's moved once in 28 years, four weeks ago. She and her husband had already sold their house and planned on moving here because this is where their large, loving family is. Her husband passed away two weeks before their scheduled move. She doesn't have friends or do anything because she doesn't want to. She never has. She has no problems with depression and is very into self preservation. And in fact, to the degree that she only cares about herself. I'm sorry if you misunderstood my "venting" as not caring. That's not the case. She's an extremely difficult person and I am a very giving person. She's been in her new home for about two weeks. All of my adult children have been to visit her many times with my grandchildren. While she misses her husband, she's far from neglected. In fact the opposite is true. She'd like to run me ragged.


Funny, I could have sworn that she moved into your house and then out of your house. Maybe I was mistaken. 
Having grandchildren stop in is not the same as having your spouse there, is it?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In your opinion. In my opinion, any law or regulation that attempts to force a person to do something against their will, is an infringement on freedom. While you and I may disagree on which laws or regulations are worthy of forfeiting our freedoms for, the cumulative effect is the same. Already, it is impossible to calculate how many laws are on the books. Does it even matter if you think a law is good or if I do? While necessary, all laws are an infringement upon freedom. Both parties pass far more laws than we need or even know about.


I don't see laws as an infringement. Without them we'd be living by the law of the jungle, where the bigger and stronger get to eat the smaller and weaker. Not my idea of civilization.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're right about that. But there are dynamics in my family that you probably could not understand. Our relationship with each other was hard fought and late in coming. My mother did everything she could to turn us siblings against each other. My sister and I weren't close for many years. And neither of us ever hear from our brothers. My brothers didn't even call or visit me when I had cancer.
> 
> I make every effort to keep my children involved with each other. I always got the whole family together for a big fancy breakfast every week. This past year, I've had to cut back to doing it once a month as its gotten to be too much. But we still get together for dinners etc nearly every week, in addition to the monthly breakfast. They hang out and do things together. No matter what, if one needs something, the others are there! Including the one who lives 8 hours away. Its what I always wished I'd had. I hope that my children will say that their mother was the glue that held the family together.


Knitter from Nebraska
focus on your husband and children and perhaps some day your sister feels a need to become closer to you. I applaud you for remaining close to your children. My Mom made sure we got along and we always have and look after each other to honor her. She was a shining example of a Mother.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> HulusMinus
> read before you leap. You are way off base. And may I remind you that there are some people in this World who know no compassion, are self-sentered, expect everything from others and never give anything themselves KFN's MIL seems to be one of those. I am in KFN's corner. Her MIL is an egotistical person who disrupts everyone-else's life and that is so unfair. She should have had my Dad as a Son, he would have put her straight. His Mother was just like her and made my Mom's Life a living Hell until Dad stepped in and laid down the rules. Boy, oh boy, the impact he had. Mom finally had some Peace and so did the rest of the Family. KFN's MIL's illness is Egotism. I am sure if she suffered from Dementia and had otherwise always been a nice person, the story told would be quite different. You are comparing Water with Oil.


Thank you, Huck. She's partly right. I shouldn't talk about mil. I've not lied or exaggerated. But I should just keep things to myself. But I sometimes feel like I'll break into a million tiny pieces if I don't get it out. I want to assure everyone that while all of this has dredged up old feelings and I pour them out here, I am very kind and loving with her. I apologize.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't see laws as an infringement. Without them we'd be living by the law of the jungle, where the bigger and stronger get to eat the smaller and weaker. Not my idea of civilization.


Many laws are not an infringement, except perhaps to those people who are used to infringing on others rights. 
The Civil Rights Act of '64, the Voting Rights Act of '65, those laws set by the UN identifying crimes against humanity, 
even seat belt laws that save me from paying for some nitwit's injuries because they wouldn't protect themselves without a law forcing them to. 
The Geneva Convention put a lot of useful laws into effect.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't see laws as an infringement. Without them we'd be living by the law of the jungle, where the bigger and stronger get to eat the smaller and weaker. Not my idea of civilization.


Poor Purl
I too do not see Laws as an infringement. I like a regulated Society. If we look at those which are not, we quickly appreciate what we have, at least I do.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I too do not see Laws as an infringement. I like a regulated Society. If we look at those which are not, we quickly appreciate what we have, at least I do.


Yes, a nice big sign at the border saying WELCOME TO SOMALIA


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In your opinion. In my opinion, any law or regulation that attempts to force a person to do something against their will, is an infringement on freedom. While you and I may disagree on which laws or regulations are worthy of forfeiting our freedoms for, the cumulative effect is the same. Already, it is impossible to calculate how many laws are on the books. Does it even matter if you think a law is good or if I do? While necessary, all laws are an infringement upon freedom. Both parties pass far more laws than we need or even know about.


Knitter from Nebraska
I am very glad that laws were passed to free the Slaves, that women can vote, Drivers need a license to get on the road, that food is being inspected, that Airplanes get inspected, medical personell has to be licensed, medications must be tested. However long the list, I rarely find something I object to and if so, I can live with them and take it with all of the good. Today I can say with certainty that most Laws make sense, if we look at those of the past, MANY make no sense at all. Check out the idiotic Laws still on the books, you will burst into laughter. You probably find some which tell us how to wipe our rear ends. Oh the "good old days", honestly?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, a nice big sign at the border saying WELCOME TO SOMALIA


Knitanon
say what? I guess you wanted to post a racist remark. You succeeded.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

HuluMinus said:


> Very wise.
> 
> Regardless, of placing blame for her dependency, the truth is she must be scared to death. Believe me I understand KfN's frustrations, right down to the complaining about the way I cook food, to how her MIL/ my mother will jabber on even though she can see clearly she's busy trying to concentrate while on the computer. To disrespecting my husband's and my privacy, treating our living room like it's a lobby in a hotel. Believe me, I get it.


So, what makes you any different than me? You're getting in your vent. You're just using me to do it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> For pity's sake, how did you miss potential?


Knitanon
Have you fallen off your Rocker?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So, what makes you any different than me? You're getting in your vent. You're just using me to do it.


Knitter from Nebraska
Good Girl. By George you pegged her.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> say what? I guess you wanted to post a racist remark. You succeeded.


I am not sure where you get racist. Is that the first thing that comes to your mind because Somalia is in Africa? I don't think that makes me the racist.

You alluded to an situation of anarchy (lawlessness) which is the situation Somalia is in right now. 
Don't bother to apologize, I think you must need a nap.
***********************************************
Huckleberry wrote:
Poor Purl
I too do not see Laws as an infringement. I like a regulated Society. If we look at those which are not, we quickly appreciate what we have, at least I do.

Yes, a nice big sign at the border saying WELCOME TO SOMALIA


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Democrats Push Bill to Overturn Laws Convicting Kermit Gosnell of Killing Born Alive Babies


Nonsense. This is what it really is:

*The Democrats Brilliant Idea for How to Stop Unnecessary Abortion Clinic Regulations*

Democrats in the Senate on Tuesday took a major step in pushing back against the growing trend of regulations that are designed to shut down safe abortion clinics. The Senate Judiciary Committee is hearing testimony on a bill introduced by Sens. Richard Blumenthal and Tammy Baldwin, a bill that would do significant damage to anti-choice efforts to go around Roe v. Wade by regulating abortion clinics out of existence. It's called the Women's Health Protection Act, and it would end the attacks on abortion clinics through one simple measure: requiring states to regulate abortion providers in exactly the same way they do other clinics and doctors who provide comparable services. No more singling out abortion providers.

The bill goes into detail about the specific abortion-only regulations that would not be allowed, but the general principle is that if you don't require it for other outpatient procedures, you can't require it for abortion. Want to force women seeking abortion to listen to a script full of lies and then make them wait 24 or 48 hours to think it over? Better be prepared to do the same for people who need colonoscopies. Want to require a bunch of unnecessary visits before a woman is allowed to have a procedure? Now you need to do that for a biopsy, too. Want to force abortion clinics to meet ambulatory surgical center standards and abortion providers to have hospital admitting privileges? Well, dentists will have to meet the same standards before they can drill a tooth. If this bill passes (more on that below), states would be forced to let abortion providers operate in peace or make everyone elseincluding, gasp, menendure the same kind of hassles and mistreatment women seeking abortion now have to endure in much of the country.

Now, the bad news: This bill has no chance of getting through the Republican-controlled House. But it's still an important move on the part of the Democrats to introduce it. The ostensible excuse for all these excessive regulations on abortion clinics is that they're necessary to "protect" women's health. By introducing this bill, Blumenthal and Baldwin are pushing Republicans to admit the truth about the targeted laws or to explain why they believe women, as a class, cannot be trusted to exercise the same personal responsibility for their health care decisions that men enjoy. Considering that the Supreme Court will almost surely be ruling on the legality of these kinds of regulations within a few years, exposing and emphasizing the motivations behind these regulations can only help the pro-choice cause.

Then again, in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, the court already signed off on the idea that woman-specific health care should be held to a different standard than health care for everyone, meaning that they may not be moved by the deep unfairness of requiring women and only women (and their providers) to jump through hoops for a simple outpatient procedure. But at least Democrats are taking measures to make the unfairness of it all clear to the voters.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/07/15/women_s_health_protection_act_a_brilliant_bill_to_protect_women_s_abortion.html


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Nonsense. This is what it really is:
> 
> *The Democrats Brilliant Idea for How to Stop Unnecessary Abortion Clinic Regulations*
> 
> ...


Interesting little bubble someone is walking around in.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Have you fallen off your Rocker?


You avoided answering the question quite well.

Just how did you jump from a statement that suggested that posts that seem to go further than simple venting to some could show a potential for abuse (those of us who have been mandated reporters never quite lose that reflex) to someone making an accusation? 
SQM did NOT make an accusation, she expressed a concern. 
That seems a kindness to me, if someone were having a difficult time controlling resentments hearing that concern might just be a wake up call.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Surprise myself. I agree with Hulu. There is something called elder abuse and I would think that a lot of people who are resentful of the care-giving role would be a potential perp. Maybe MIL is in such a fearful state that her bluster is a defense. She cannot feel safe and must keep snarling to show her strength. What a nightmare it must be to be pretty helpless and having to depend on highly resentful children. Shoot me.


Thank you for your belief in me. You are so far off base, it isn't even funny! I may be wrong to vent but I have never treated her with anything but kindness. Your presumptions are far from the truth! If she's afraid of me, why would she call me twice a day? Why would she want me to come over and do everything for her? I stayed with her day and night for four weeks. I got up in the middle of the night, every night to be with her while she cried. I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, waited on her and helped her bathe, even while I packed all of their belongings by myself. I worked day and night for 5 weeks! I've been gentle and caring to a woman who never had any of that for me and you suggest that I might commit elder abuse?!? I expect nothing less from Lisa! But you?!? You don't know me at all! I guess I don't know you either!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I want to thank everyone who had shown me support! I appreciate it more than words can say!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> You avoided answering the question quite well.
> 
> Just how did you jump from a statement that suggested that posts that seem to go further than simple venting to some could show a potential for abuse (those of us who have been mandated reporters never quite lose that reflex) to someone making an accusation?
> SQM did NOT make an accusation, she expressed a concern.
> That seems a kindness to me, if someone were having a difficult time controlling resentments hearing that concern might just be a wake up call.


What have I ever said that could make anyone think that I'd resort to any type of abuse? I have never even spoke harshly to this woman! I only spoke the truth and vented my frustration. So tell me! What makes your mind go there? Pinpoint anything I may have said that would lead you to that conclusion. Otherwise stop using innuendo to slander me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I am not sure where you get racist. Is that the first thing that comes to your mind because Somalia is in Africa? I don't think that makes me the racist.
> 
> You alluded to an situation of anarchy (lawlessness) which is the situation Somalia is in right now.
> Don't bother to apologize, I think you must need a nap.
> ...


Knitanon
I stay with my remark.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for your belief in me. You are so far off base, it isn't even funny! I may be wrong to vent but I have never treated her with anything but kindness. Your presumptions are far from the truth! If she's afraid of me, why would she call me twice a day? Why would she want me to come over and do everything for her? I stayed with her day and night for four weeks. I got up in the middle of the night, every night to be with her while she cried. I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, waited on her and helped her bathe, even while I packed all of their belongings by myself. I worked day and night for 5 weeks! I've been gentle and caring to a woman who never had any of that for me and you suggest that I might commit elder abuse?!? I expect nothing less from Lisa! But you?!? You don't know me at all! I guess I don't know you either!


Knitter from Nebraska
It is no secret that you and I do not see eye to eye on many issues but I can never imagine you mistreating your MIL. I am sure I can bet on that. You are smart to vent here and many of us are glad to listen and even give advice. I apologize for those who think of you in an unkind way.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What have I ever said that could make anyone think that I'd resort to any type of abuse? I have never even spoke harshly to this woman! I only spoke the truth and vented my frustration. So tell me! What makes your mind go there? Pinpoint anything I may have said that would lead you to that conclusion. Otherwise stop using innuendo to slander me.


1. That post was not in response to one of yours. 
2. For a couple of months I have thougth that your assessment and judgments of your MIL were quite harsh, while also wondering why you would subject yourself and the MIL to spending time together when it appears that neither of you like the other.
3. Who else would she call? Who else does she know who can spend the time when she is lonely? 
There are many forms of abuse, I don't think that anyone said physical abuse as any sort of a consideration. 
4. Slander is not asking questions, slander is making accusations. Bringing up slander is just plain silly. 
If you are reading accusations, you need to read it all again.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> I stay with my remark.


I am not surprised. You are famous for seeing racism in any chance statement that you don't understand. 
Rather than ask a question, you make a pronouncement.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Nonsense. This is what it really is:
> 
> *The Democrats Brilliant Idea for How to Stop Unnecessary Abortion Clinic Regulations*
> 
> ...


Poor Purl
Thank you. More energy has to be exerted by the Democrats to shed light on so many non-sense Laws and on the attack on women's rights and control of their bodies.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> It is no secret that you and I do not see eye to eye on many issues but I can never imagine you mistreating your MIL. I am sure I can bet on that. You are smart to vent here and many of us are glad to listen and even give advice. I apologize for those who think of you in an unkind way.


Thank you, Huck!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I am not surprised. You are famous for seeing racism in any chance statement that you don't understand.
> Rather than ask a question, you make a pronouncement.


Knitanon
have been around folks like you for ages and smell the Rats from miles away. BTW there is very little I DO NOT understand. Trying to walk back from your statement, won't work, you are stumbling already. It is best to watch your step when venturing into messy territory. Your intent of your post is no secret.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> have been around folks like you for ages and smell the Rats from miles away. BTW there is very little I DO NOT understand. Trying to walk back from your statement, won't work, you are stumbling already. It is best to watch your step when venturing into messy territory. Your intent of your post is no secret.


I am not walking back from anything. 
Other than from you. I think that you have fallen a lot further than from a rocker.
To make a claim that one understands almost everything is pretty close to ...well, you understand why I won't go there. It would be so unkind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Many laws are not an infringement, except perhaps to those people who are used to infringing on others rights.
> The Civil Rights Act of '64, the Voting Rights Act of '65, those laws set by the UN identifying crimes against humanity,
> even seat belt laws that save me from paying for some nitwit's injuries because they wouldn't protect themselves without a law forcing them to.
> The Geneva Convention put a lot of useful laws into effect.


Your point is well taken: laws (you say "many"; I'd say "most") are an infringement to those who are used to infringing on others' rights.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> 1. That post was not in response to one of yours.
> 2. For a couple of months I have thougth that your assessment and judgments of your MIL were quite harsh, while also wondering why you would subject yourself and the MIL to spending time together when it appears that neither of you like the other.
> 3. Who else would she call? Who else does she know who can spend the time when she is lonely?
> There are many forms of abuse, I don't think that anyone said physical abuse as any sort of a consideration.
> ...


Knitanon
do you not understand what you write when you write or are you just playing dumb to get away with stuff? Hmm.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Your point is well taken: laws (you say "many"; I'd say "most") are an infringement to those who are used to infringing on others' rights.


Ever the optimist, I hope that someone will see the light when they see the error of their ways through others' eyes.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I too do not see Laws as an infringement. I like a regulated Society. If we look at those which are not, we quickly appreciate what we have, at least I do.


In fact, isn't our government described as a government of laws, Huck?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> 1. That post was not in response to one of yours.
> 2. For a couple of months I have thougth that your assessment and judgments of your MIL were quite harsh, while also wondering why you would subject yourself and the MIL to spending time together when it appears that neither of you like the other.
> 3. Who else would she call? Who else does she know who can spend the time when she is lonely?
> There are many forms of abuse, I don't think that anyone said physical abuse as any sort of a consideration.
> ...


1. Your post wasn't TO me but it was in reference to me.
2. I "subject" myself because I do everything for everybody! You can give me all the reasons in the world why I shouldn't, but I do! Mil doesn't know when I get frustrated because I treat her with kindness, whether you believe me or not!
3. Mil spends all day on the phone with her sister, her sister in law, my daughters in law and whoever she chooses to talk to. She calls ME when she wants something or needs something because I'm the one who can be counted on to do it! 
4. It was innuendo plain and simple!

Again, I challenge you to show one single thing I've said that would indicate that I've been or even might be abusive in any way!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> do you not understand what you write when you write or are you just playing dumb to get away with stuff? Hmm.


I play dumb because it is so obvious that you desperately need to feel superior to someone. Sad, really.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, a nice big sign at the border saying WELCOME TO SOMALIA


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> say what? I guess you wanted to post a racist remark. You succeeded.


What? Huck, Somalia is a very good example of a lawless country. The fact that it's in Africa, I'm sure, had nothing to do with Knitanon choosing it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I am not walking back from anything.
> Other than from you. I think that you have fallen a lot further than from a rocker.
> To make a claim that one understands almost everything is pretty close to ...well, you understand why I won't go there. It would be so unkind.


Knitanon
yes, if I come upon something I do not understand, I learn about it quickly. I have a thirst for knowledge. Have to admit that Einstein's Theory is still a mystery to me for the most part.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> have been around folks like you for ages and smell the Rats from miles away. BTW there is very little I DO NOT understand. Trying to walk back from your statement, won't work, you are stumbling already. It is best to watch your step when venturing into messy territory. Your intent of your post is no secret.


I see now why you generally stick to one liners.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Interesting little bubble someone is walking around in.


I think at least 3/4 of what they say is made up to fit their needs. Maybe 9/10.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What? Huck, Somalia is a very good example of a lawless country. The fact that it's in Africa, I'm sure, had nothing to do with Knitanon choosing it.


Of course, it didn't. Thanks for the vote of confidence, Poor Purl.
Don't bother, Poor Purl, she obviously is upset about that other issue and so looking for anything negative.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What? Huck, Somalia is a very good example of a lawless country. The fact that it's in Africa, I'm sure, had nothing to do with Knitanon choosing it.


Poor Purl
R E A L L Y? I got a bridge to sell.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I see now why you generally stick to one liners.


Knitanon
trying to make it easy for you.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

In the meantime, Joey somma is having a grand time over on Hobby Lobby.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In fact, isn't our government described as a government of laws, Huck?


Poor Purl
that is how I understand it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> We want more abortion (murder) clinics like Gosnell's. That is what we would get if this passes.


That's the really big nonsense part. Laws that require abortion clinics to have closets of a particular size would do nothing to prevent Gosnell or people like him.



joeysomma said:


> After I read your article I went to this one, on the same page:
> 
> The Supreme Court term wrapped up nice and neat last week. Unless you are a woman.
> 
> ...


I see nothing incorrect about the quote. As for the rest, I don't know the science behind the various contraceptives under discussion, and somehow I doubt that you know the science any better.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, Huck. She's partly right. I shouldn't talk about mil. I've not lied or exaggerated. But I should just keep things to myself. But I sometimes feel like I'll break into a million tiny pieces if I don't get it out. I want to assure everyone that while all of this has dredged up old feelings and I pour them out here, I am very kind and loving with her. I apologize.


you don't need to apologize as far as I am concerned. I just wish I had someone to vent to when I was experiencing the problems. We lived in an Army pmq and gossip was rife - I didn't ever talk about personal things. Then we moved to New Zealand and it was a long way from home. Then we moved home and same thing all over again. Luckily, Pat never allowed her to come between us. We were a united front or I likely would not have stayed. She was something. At the end she was a sad, woman who suffered terribly for a year before she died and we visited her, one of us , every day. we took turns. She did apologize before she died.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops - double post


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> You avoided answering the question quite well.
> 
> Just how did you jump from a statement that suggested that posts that seem to go further than simple venting to some could show a potential for abuse (those of us who have been mandated reporters never quite lose that reflex) to someone making an accusation?
> SQM did NOT make an accusation, she expressed a concern.
> That seems a kindness to me, if someone were having a difficult time controlling resentments hearing that concern might just be a wake up call.


Great English to English translation. Thanks Chum.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for your belief in me. You are so far off base, it isn't even funny! I may be wrong to vent but I have never treated her with anything but kindness. Your presumptions are far from the truth! If she's afraid of me, why would she call me twice a day? Why would she want me to come over and do everything for her? I stayed with her day and night for four weeks. I got up in the middle of the night, every night to be with her while she cried. I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, waited on her and helped her bathe, even while I packed all of their belongings by myself. I worked day and night for 5 weeks! I've been gentle and caring to a woman who never had any of that for me and you suggest that I might commit elder abuse?!? I expect nothing less from Lisa! But you?!? You don't know me at all! I guess I don't know you either!


Your venting was quite filled with anger. Sorry I made the wrong assumption but you are leaving the wrong impression.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Designer1234 wrote:
That isn't the point, the point is that thousands and thousands of people were hurt or killed by that war which was started on a lie. Civilians and American troops. Some of those who managed to live through the war as still paying a price. don't knit pick.



joeysomma said:


> If it was a lie, more than 90% of the Congress believed it. All of Congress who voted for it are as guilty, or more so, than Bush. Congress voted, Bush agreed. There were more than enough votes to over ride a veto, so why should he veto it.
> 
> Oh, that's right, how should I expect you to understand how our government works?


The Liberal Canadian government of that time DID NOT doubt the claims either. Their reason for not participating in the coalition was because it wasn't led by the UN, not because they did not believe in WMD.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> R E A L L Y? I got a bridge to sell.


Suppose you wanted to pick out an example of a lawless country. What would you choose? There's a high likelihood of its not being in Europe or in North America. Any place else you pick would earn you the name of racist, by your logic.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I am getting a bit confused in this SHE SAID/SHE SAID bit of articles. so I am not quite sure if I am reading what I think I am reading. I think that what I see is someone from Salon saying that Hobbly Lobby never covered/never was required to cover IUDs and certain oral contraceptives. 
*
Which leads us back to Hobby Lobby, a case that rests tenuously on the premise that an employers choice to offer a menu of comprehensive health care services to all employees is the same as his choice to buy a condom for his secretary. What is missing from the Hobby Lobby decision altogetherbeyond the economic disparity and public health arguments I mention aboveis the very notion of the woman herself as moral circuit breaker, as an agent of her own ethical choices and preferences, whose decision to obtain an IUD, or a condom, or a morning-after pill is a fully autonomous moral choice that supplants the spiritual choices of her employer. Again, its almost impossible to escape the conclusion that Hobby Lobby, McCullen, and Harris all rest on the idea that women are in effect children with (partial) paychecks, and that their choices are to be second-guessed and gently redirected.

The woman has always had the choice for what ever morning after pill, or device that she chooses. It is just that Hobby Lobby has not paid for it before and will not pay for it now. The woman has lost nothing.

Obama and HHS's mandate is making people think something has been taken away when they never had it to begin with.*



Poor Purl said:


> I see nothing incorrect about the quote. As for the rest, I don't know the science behind the various contraceptives under discussion, and somehow I doubt that you know the science any better.


I have this piece,though, that seems to indicate that Hobby Lobby has, at least in some states, been required to provide any and all contraceptives licensed by the FDA.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/insurance-coverage-for-contraception-state-laws.aspx


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> ...something nasty.





Knitanon said:


> ...something nasty.


If you kids don't stop this fighting, you won't be able to have ice cream for dessert!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If you kids don't stop this fighting, you won't be able to have ice cream for dessert!


And I'm leaving to get mine right now! Vanilla with a little banana and some hot fudge!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If you kids don't stop this fighting, you won't be able to have ice cream for dessert!


Beatcha to it, NYAH NYAH


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They even save money on pants fabric by wearing kilts.


Not to mention what they do not wear underneath the kilt.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Thank you, Huck. She's partly right. I shouldn't talk about mil. I've not lied or exaggerated. But I should just keep things to myself. But I sometimes feel like I'll break into a million tiny pieces if I don't get it out. I want to assure everyone that while all of this has dredged up old feelings and I pour them out here, I am very kind and loving with her. I apologize.


Please don't stop venting on my account. 
I am sorry if my concern made me come on too strong. As I said, I have been squirming for a while and I probably should have spoken up earlier about my discomfort. Everyone needs a safe place to let off steam. 
I have probably been sensing that "feel like I'll break into a million tiny pieces if I don't get it out" as a danger sign when it is actually a release for you. 
I hope you can understand that I was just worried.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I am getting a bit confused in this SHE SAID/SHE SAID bit of articles. so I am not quite sure if I am reading what I think I am reading. I think that what I see is someone from Salon saying that Hobbly Lobby never covered/never was required to cover IUDs and certain oral contraceptives.
> *
> Which leads us back to Hobby Lobby, a case that rests tenuously on the premise that an employers choice to offer a menu of comprehensive health care services to all employees is the same as his choice to buy a condom for his secretary. What is missing from the Hobby Lobby decision altogetherbeyond the economic disparity and public health arguments I mention aboveis the very notion of the woman herself as moral circuit breaker, as an agent of her own ethical choices and preferences, whose decision to obtain an IUD, or a condom, or a morning-after pill is a fully autonomous moral choice that supplants the spiritual choices of her employer. Again, its almost impossible to escape the conclusion that Hobby Lobby, McCullen, and Harris all rest on the idea that women are in effect children with (partial) paychecks, and that their choices are to be second-guessed and gently redirected.*


The above is what Salon (or Slate - I don't remember which) said. The stuff in red would indicate that the writer disagreed with SCOTUS. Then:



> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > The woman has always had the choice for what ever morning after pill, or device that she chooses. It is just that Hobby Lobby has not paid for it before and will not pay for it now. The woman has lost nothing.
> ...


Well, I'm sure that's over with, unless state law can supersede federal law.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, I'm sure that's over with, unless state law can supersede federal law.


I will leave the battle up to smarter people who have a stake in the game, but, I did read or hear that California has some foolproof language. Dollars to donuts if Mass doesn't they will soon. 
Here's hoping.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> For pity's sake, how did you miss potential?


If I were to miss potential, I'd miss potentially going postal on any difficult roles in life. Usually there are clues that the overwhelmed person is getting too many straws on his or her back. Haven't noticed that with KFN. Many a time, just venting about a tough situation helps defuse it.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Not to mention what they do not wear underneath the kilt.


And all the ladies who hope for windy days, lol...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> It is unusual for you to be so quick, maysmom, is everything OK?


Everything is just ducky, Knit. It seems extreme for anyone to infer that KFN hates her MIL and that there is potential for elder abuse. As a mandated reporter myself, I've come across many situations that made me uncomfortable. And for sure, I haven't visited KFN, her dh, or her MIL, but all I can see is a DIL trying to make her MIL's transition to her new life as smooth as possible.
To see a relatively new poster put in her two cents' worth about a scared, fragile, lonely old soul, well, the poster needs to read up on things a bit.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If you kids don't stop this fighting, you won't be able to have ice cream for dessert!


Well, shining knot of nacre, there was an ice cream social at the Senior Center last week. During the break in painting class, we were treated to chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry ice cream with hot fudge, caramel, or pineapple topping, whipped cream, and nuts or sprinkles. Very very good!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you see this note: Table Key: * The state allows exemptions from contraceptive coverage requirements for insurers or employers for religious or other specified reasons.
> 
> Many state have laws requiring insurers that cover prescription drugs also provide coverage for any Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved *contraceptive.*
> 
> No states required coverage for abortifacient or any other drug or device that terminates a pregnancy.


As Hobby Lobby is building another store in CT, what it offers in contraceptive coverage will be scrutinized with great interest.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

News update, and I find the actions of the reporter to be shocking.


MH17: Sky News apologises after presenter rummaged through luggage of Malaysia Airlines flight
Updated 54 minutes ago

British broadcaster Sky News has apologised after one of its presenters searched through luggage at the crash site of downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 live on air.
The presenter was reporting from the eastern Ukraine crash site of the MH17, which was shot down over rebel-held territory on Thursday, killing all 298 people on board, including 37 Australian citizens and residents.
In a news broadcast on Sunday, presenter Colin Brazier was shown rooting through personal belongings in an opened suitcase at the site, picking up a set of keys before saying, "we shouldn't really be doing this".
The footage sparked outrage on social media, including calls for Mr Brazier to be sacked.
BBC presenter Jacqui Oatley tweeted that she was "astonished," while Joe Watson, a professor of Mass Media at Baker University described it as a "horrible moment for journalism".

A Sky News spokesperson has since issued an apology.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Did you see this note: Table Key: * The state allows exemptions from contraceptive coverage requirements for insurers or employers for religious or other specified reasons.
> 
> Many state have laws requiring insurers that cover prescription drugs also provide coverage for any Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved *contraceptive.*
> 
> No states required coverage for abortifacient or any other drug or device that terminates a pregnancy.


Yes, indeed. However, as displayed on the Hobby Lobby thread tonight you read and interpret as you please.

What you tried to say earlier was that women were not provided with particular types of contraceptive by employer based health insurance and that just isn't true. At least in some states, it will continue to be an untruth. 
Read the top of page 2, JoeySomma, it tells just what those religous exemptions are by state.

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_ICC.pdf


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great minds.......



Poor Purl said:


> I was about to write that he wasn't _suffering _from mutism; he prefers it. You beat me.


 :twisted:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> News update, and I find the actions of the reporter to be shocking.
> 
> MH17: Sky News apologises after presenter rummaged through luggage of Malaysia Airlines flight
> Updated 54 minutes ago
> ...


Not just the reporter. There have been reports on CNN of a lot of looting. When Katrina hit the States, I saw one image of people looting the homes of those hardest hit. After that I stopped watching. I find human behavior disgusting. I wish Mrs. Somma was right and the dinosaurs existed with people. The dinosaurs would have eaten all the humans. Thus you have my proof that it was impossible for humans and dinosaurs to have lived on earth the same time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> I have it written in my will that I absolutely refuse to recycle. This is it. Done. Kaput.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I think I have met her - my doorbell is mute when she rings. Got a Camera to see who is seeking entry. What a wonderful invention.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> look at it as very airy. Nice for a hot summer day.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, shining knot of nacre, there was an ice cream social at the Senior Center last week. During the break in painting class, we were treated to chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry ice cream with hot fudge, caramel, or pineapple topping, whipped cream, and nuts or sprinkles. Very very good!


Waitaminnit! Was this supported by tax money? Doesn't sound very healthy. (Ahh, I'm just jealous.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think that for the most part, you have to read the comments carefully for awhile.

As people feel comfortable and develop trust of one another, things are revealed. But there are times when personal information has been used in unhealthy ways. That's the reason some people are protective of their privacy.

I think what several people alluded to with Joey is asking for personal thoughts or feelings instead of verbatim tracks.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to learn more about everyone on here.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Waitaminnit! Was this supported by tax money? Doesn't sound very healthy. (Ahh, I'm just jealous.)


Someone on food stamps probably went out and bought GALLONS of ice cream and sauces instead of broccoli and peas. Tsk Tsk


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Works for me too.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Haha! I've got caller ID.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> Marilyn Knits
> You describe some Elder Clubs so eloquently. Oh yes, those reserved chairs for some who already departed (no-one ever sits on them). The Food: the Oldies behave like the youngsters when a new IPod comes on the Market. They storm for it, take home what they cannot possibly eat then and there and throw it out at home. I do take some wheel-chair-bound people to these events and no wonder, many young want to have nothing to do with these old grouches, they are so ill behaved. And then there are older Folks who make every effort to remain among the young and are a pleasure to be with. It is wonderful to see an 86 year old tackling a computer, text on the new CellPhone and sit in a Sandbox with some little snod nosed stinky (panties on poop overload) Babe and build Sand Castles. I am planning to be the playmate and scoop the poop so we can continue playing until I cannot bend that far anymore but will make available my knees for the stinkers to sit on and read Dr. Seuss.


Thanks for the mental image. It's grand.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The pipeline...really the pipeline? The amount of permanent jobs is negligible! Maybe you are thinking of the jobs that might result from the environmental degradation that occurs from pipeline rupture cleanup?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> ...covering head, running away.....no!....no!!!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's just an effort to respond to those of limited ability.



Knitanon said:


> I see now why you generally stick to one liners.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Not just the reporter. There have been reports on CNN of a lot of looting. When Katrina hit the States, I saw one image of people looting the homes of those hardest hit. After that I stopped watching. I find human behavior disgusting. I wish Mrs. Somma was right and the dinosaurs existed with people. The dinosaurs would have eaten all the humans. Thus you have my proof that it was impossible for humans and dinosaurs to have lived on earth the same time.


Are you saying you never saw The Flintstones. Isn't that enough proof?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If there were only one Jew on the Court, s/he would probably be a token. But there are three. However, Thomas was appointed to replace Thurgood Marshall, the previous holder of the "black seat." Bush41 had to appoint a black man (there was already a woman on the Court).


Good try. So you are saying that Thurgood Marshall was a 'token'?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

maysmom said:


> For pity's sake, where does anyone get the idea that KFN is abusing her MIL????


I agree. Good grief if I could not talk about my frustration with my dad to my friends (and maybe have a good temper tantrum to boot) I would not be able to be with him with the calm serenity that he needs and deserves.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Good try. So you are saying that Thurgood Marshall was a 'token'?


I'm not saying it, but there may have been pressure on Johnson to appoint a black man, since had never been one on the Court. But he chose a man who was known as a jurist, who had served in a legal capacity before being placed on the Court. As far as I recall, Clarence Thomas hadn't done anywhere near as much. Sometimes a token turns out to be a good choice. However, *if the token has never opened his mouth in court to ask a single question, *it's pure guesswork whether he ever was qualified.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Designer1234 wrote:
> That isn't the point, the point is that thousands and thousands of people were hurt or killed by that war which was started on a lie. Civilians and American troops. Some of those who managed to live through the war as still paying a price. don't knit pick.
> 
> The Liberal Canadian government of that time DID NOT doubt the claims either. Their reason for not participating in the coalition was because it wasn't led by the UN, not because they did not believe in WMD.


I am not sure what point you are making.

No one doubted the claim. We believed Bush . It was claimed by the President and the American Government.

Everyone believed them from what I can gather. It wasn't the truth. that is a fact. I don't remember any of the Conservatives questioning it either and as you know I live in a very very Conservative part of Canada. Because the American Government said it was a fact, I would think most of the Western world believed them.

I am just thankful we avoided that one as well as VietNam. Afghanistan was enough - too much - I am stating my opinion, but it is based of facts.

What are we arguing about? nothing can change the history. 
The US declared war and we all believed him. We all know now that it was based on a lie and that it was pushed by Cheney . I am just thankful we stayed out of it. I am sure you are too.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, Huck. She's partly right. I shouldn't talk about mil. I've not lied or exaggerated. But I should just keep things to myself. But I sometimes feel like I'll break into a million tiny pieces if I don't get it out. I want to assure everyone that while all of this has dredged up old feelings and I pour them out here, I am very kind and loving with her. I apologize.


If you can't vent to your posse, where can you? Most of us have had experience with dysfunctional and even toxic relatives, and can empathize. If it helps relieve your stress, don't hesitate to talk to us. If you want to avoid people who live to criticize, you can PM me whenever you want. I have a pretty sturdy shoulder to cry on. Stay strong.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thanks for the mental image. It's grand.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Posse? Classy

What do you think Lenny Davis lied about? Was is it he is good friends with Hillary, but NEVER talks to her? That he does not think a special prosecutor is legally needed for the IRS scandal but would have one because of the optics?

He did have a moment of truth. He said that if there were a Republican president the Dems would be screaming for an IRS special prosecutor. Since that is true, why are the Dems so surprised that the Republicans (and most Americans) think one is necessary?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Suppose you wanted to pick out an example of a lawless country. What would you choose? There's a high likelihood of its not being in Europe or in North America. Any place else you pick would earn you the name of racist, by your logic.


Eastern Ukraine comes to mind.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If you can't vent to your posse, where can you? Most of us have had experience with dysfunctional and even toxic relatives, and can empathize. If it helps relieve your stress, don't hesitate to talk to us. If you want to avoid people who live to criticize, you can PM me whenever you want. I have a pretty sturdy shoulder to cry on. Stay strong.


me too. It seems that face value doesn't mean a thing any more. It always seems as if the person posting is not telling it like it is. In a lot of cases that is true, but in a goodly number that is not the case. I hope you get away and relax.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And I'm leaving to get mine right now! Vanilla with a little banana and some hot fudge!


Yours sounds good. Have to pick up a banana today. Yesterday I topped off lunch with a scoop of dark chocolate in a cup of strong coffee. And no, I didn't bounce off walls the rest of the day.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I agree. Good grief if I could not talk about my frustration with my dad to my friends (and maybe have a good temper tantrum to boot) I would not be able to be with him with the calm serenity that he needs and deserves.


LTL - for once I agree with you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Everything is just ducky, Knit. It seems extreme for anyone to infer that KFN hates her MIL and that there is potential for elder abuse. As a mandated reporter myself, I've come across many situations that made me uncomfortable. And for sure, I haven't visited KFN, her dh, or her MIL, but all I can see is a DIL trying to make her MIL's transition to her new life as smooth as possible.
> To see a relatively new poster put in her two cents' worth about a scared, fragile, lonely old soul, well, the poster needs to read up on things a bit.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, shining knot of nacre, there was an ice cream social at the Senior Center last week. During the break in painting class, we were treated to chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry ice cream with hot fudge, caramel, or pineapple topping, whipped cream, and nuts or sprinkles. Very very good!


my mouth is watering!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Everything is just ducky, Knit. It seems extreme for anyone to infer that KFN hates her MIL and that there is potential for elder abuse. As a mandated reporter myself, I've come across many situations that made me uncomfortable. And for sure, I haven't visited KFN, her dh, or her MIL, but all I can see is a DIL trying to make her MIL's transition to her new life as smooth as possible.
> To see a relatively new poster put in her two cents' worth about a scared, fragile, lonely old soul, well, the poster needs to read up on things a bit.


Let's all take the situation with Nebraska's MIL as a cautionary tale as well. It may be easier for a husband to coddle and care for a wife who makes demands than to have the conflicts that force her to learn some lessons in self sufficiency. My parents and grandparents did a great deal for me, pretty much including thinking for me. Despite straight A's I did feel insecure and inept.

D had wisdom beyond his years (he was 18 when we met) and convinced me it was to my advantage to know how to drive, to be able to do minor house repairs, to stand up to vendors on the phone when they tried to take advantage, and on and on. I resisted, but it was like trying to push water up hill. And in the end, I became stronger, more capable, more secure about who I am and am no longer a pushover.

The late FIL probably did not want to fight the sort of resistance he would face, for which I can't blame him. But those of us with daughters and granddaughters, let us help them learn to be responsible and self sufficient if they are not already self motivated. And teach our sons and grandsons that they do their wives and daughters no favors if they do everything and do not make their family lives a partnership with everyone having appropriate responsibilities.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Let's all take the situation with Nebraska's MIL as a cautionary tale as well. It may be easier for a husband to coddle and care for a wife who makes demands than to have the conflicts that force her to learn some lessons in self sufficiency. My parents and grandparents did a great deal for me, pretty much including thinking for me. Despite straight A's I did feel insecure and inept.
> 
> D had wisdom beyond his years (he was 18 when we met) and convinced me it was to my advantage to know how to drive, to be able to do minor house repairs, to stand up to vendors on the phone when they tried to take advantage, and on and on. I resisted, but it was like trying to push water up hill. And in the end, I became stronger, more capable, more secure about who I am and am no longer a pushover.
> 
> The late FIL probably did not want to fight the sort of resistance he would face, for which I can't blame him. But those of us with daughters and granddaughters, let us help them learn to be responsible and self sufficient if they are not already self motivated. And teach our sons and grandsons that they do their wives and daughters no favors if they do everything and do not make their family lives a partnership with everyone having appropriate responsibilities.


I think that you are very right, Marilynknits, we need to assist our children and grandchildren in development of skills, thinking, confidence, and caring. That would, I think, be the children of both genders. Female so that they can do for themselves and others, male so that they feel secure with women who can be fully invested partners in both work and play. 
Ultimately, that may decrease domestic violence incidents as well. What a happy day that would be. 
I have so much more to say, I don't want it to be interpreted as any form of swipe at KFN, however, so it will have to sit for another thread and another time.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for your belief in me. You are so far off base, it isn't even funny! I may be wrong to vent but I have never treated her with anything but kindness. Your presumptions are far from the truth! If she's afraid of me, why would she call me twice a day? Why would she want me to come over and do everything for her? I stayed with her day and night for four weeks. I got up in the middle of the night, every night to be with her while she cried. I cooked, cleaned, did laundry, waited on her and helped her bathe, even while I packed all of their belongings by myself. I worked day and night for 5 weeks! I've been gentle and caring to a woman who never had any of that for me and you suggest that I might commit elder abuse?!? I expect nothing less from Lisa! But you?!? You don't know me at all! I guess I don't know you either!


KFN, I am so sorry you have been subjected to unwarranted attacks about your treatment of your MIL. This has been, until now, a safe place for you to vent. Please do continue to vent all you need to......the majority of us understand and empathize...you are to be commended for all you have done for your MIL. Bless you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you everybody, for your support! Its much appreciated! Update: last night at nearly 11:00 pm, mil called. She had fallen and couldn't get up. Hubby confirmed that she wasn't injured and said, "We'll be there in 10 minutes". Her response? " What am I supposed to do, just sit here?". We got there as quickly as possible and got her up off of the floor. Somehow she'd been trying to walk backwards and wasn't using her walker and had fallen. She had her knees replaced a while back and has something called "dropped foot". It's caused her to fall in the past but she was too vain to use a walker. Her husband would just pick her up. My hubby insisted she needed it and bought her a top of the line walker but she thinks she doesn't need it at home. We encouraged her to use the walker, got her in bed and left. Now she's worried about our going on vacation. What will she do, if she falls. We assured her that our kids and dils will be there for her. 

I look forward to blessed respite! We're going to be down in a valley of the Black Hills, where cell phones don't work! Yay! We have friends up on top of the hill who have phone service and will come and get us in an emergency. But only my kids will have their number. 

I'll be more careful about what I say but appreciate the opportunity to vent. This seems to be taking over my life and I have to figure out a way to balance everyone's needs. Its going to be a full week. Tuesday, I'm taking mil for a perm. Then Tuesday night I'm babysitting Max. Wednesday, I have to take dil to drop her car off to be fixed and then, take her and Max to Costco. Thursday night I'm babysitting Blake and Mason. At some point, I'll need to take mil to the grocery store for last minute items like milk and bread. And through it all I've got to do shopping and get ready for our trip. I'll be a busy woman! Thanks for letting me unload.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Eastern Ukraine comes to mind.


Eastern Ukraine is not fascistic. You are betting on the wrong horse. Western Ukraine is fueled by hatred of the Jews. Don't believe what you hear on the media. Follow the fuel.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you everybody, for your support! Its much appreciated! Update: last night at nearly 11:00 pm, mil called. She had fallen and couldn't get up. Hubby confirmed that she wasn't injured and said, "We'll be there in 10 minutes". Her response? " What am I supposed to do, just sit here?". We got there as quickly as possible and got her up off of the floor. Somehow she'd been trying to walk backwards and wasn't using her walker and had fallen. She had her knees replaced a while back and has something called "dropped foot". It's caused her to fall in the past but she was too vain to use a walker. Her husband would just pick her up. My hubby insisted she needed it and bought her a top of the line walker but she thinks she doesn't need it at home. We encouraged her to use the walker, got her in bed and left. Now she's worried about our going on vacation. What will she do, if she falls. We assured her that our kids and dils will be there for her.
> 
> I look forward to blessed respite! We're going to be down in a valley of the Black Hills, where cell phones don't work! Yay! We have friends up on top of the hill who have phone service and will come and get us in an emergency. But only my kids will have their number.
> 
> I'll be more careful about what I say but appreciate the opportunity to vent. This seems to be taking over my life and I have to figure out a way to balance everyone's needs. Its going to be a full week. Tuesday, I'm taking mil for a perm. Then Tuesday night I'm babysitting Max. Wednesday, I have to take dil to drop her car off to be fixed and then, take her and Max to Costco. Thursday night I'm babysitting Blake and Mason. At some point, I'll need to take mil to the grocery store for last minute items like milk and bread. And through it all I've got to do shopping and get ready for our trip. I'll be a busy woman! Thanks for letting me unload.


I am sorry I insinuated what I did last night. I was a bit on edge. Will you still need me, will you still feed me when I'm 74?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Everything is just ducky, Knit. It seems extreme for anyone to infer that KFN hates her MIL and that there is potential for elder abuse. As a mandated reporter myself, I've come across many situations that made me uncomfortable. And for sure, I haven't visited KFN, her dh, or her MIL, but all I can see is a DIL trying to make her MIL's transition to her new life as smooth as possible.
> To see a relatively new poster put in her two cents' worth about a scared, fragile, lonely old soul, well, the poster needs to read up on things a bit.


maysmom
thank you, that is why I wrote: "read before you leap".


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> It's just an effort to respond to those of limited ability.


damemary
That is truly the reason.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am sorry I insinuated what I did last night. I was a bit on edge. Will you still need me, will you still feed me when I'm 74?


I accept your apology but I have to say that it really hurt, coming from you. You are forgiven.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Eastern Ukraine is not fascistic. You are betting on the wrong horse. Western Ukraine is fueled by hatred of the Jews. Don't believe what you hear on the media. Follow the fuel.


I think (qualifying everything for a bit) that the reference is to anarchy. In which case, I still disagree eastern Ukraine is not a nation, it is a region in flux.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Someone on food stamps probably went out and bought GALLONS of ice cream and sauces instead of broccoli and peas. Tsk Tsk


Knitanon
Here we go again. What a compasionate spirit you are.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The POTUS is,as I type, signing the Executive Order concerning workplace discrimination and our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Here we go again. What a compasionate spirit you are.


Just maybe you could follow George W. Bush' example and peek under desks and behind curtains as he did for WMD for your sense of humor. 
You seem to have lost it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Just maybe you could follow George W. Bush' example and peek under desks and behind curtains as he did for WMD for your sense of humor.
> You seem to have lost it.


Knitanon
what do WMD have to do with your ire towards people on food stamps? Keep trying, it ain't working.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

My statement was an extension of Poor Purl's thought...
I am truly sorry that you seem to have difficulty with context this week. I know that it must be difficult to connect those ol' dots between tax money and food stamps, perhaps someone else can assist.

Poor Purl wrote:
"Waitaminnit! Was this supported by tax money? Doesn't sound very healthy. (Ahh, I'm just jealous.)"

Someone on food stamps probably went out and bought GALLONS of ice cream and sauces instead of broccoli and peas. Tsk Tsk

Knitanon



Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> what do WMD have to do with your ire towards people on food stamps? Keep trying, it ain't working.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> My statement was an extension of Poor Purl's thought...
> I am truly sorry that you seem to have difficulty with context this week. I know that it must be difficult to connect those ol' dots between tax money and food stamps, perhaps someone else can assist.
> 
> Poor Purl wrote:
> ...


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not saying it, but there may have been pressure on Johnson to appoint a black man, since had never been one on the Court. But he chose a man who was known as a jurist, who had served in a legal capacity before being placed on the Court. As far as I recall, Clarence Thomas hadn't done anywhere near as much. Sometimes a token turns out to be a good choice. However, *if the token has never opened his mouth in court to ask a single question, *it's pure guesswork whether he ever was qualified.


Why all the yelling?

Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Here we go again. What a compasionate spirit you are.


Well yesterday was National Ice Cream Day


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you saying you never saw The Flintstones. Isn't that enough proof?


You mean the movie, not the cartoon, right??
:hunf: :hunf:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I agree. Good grief if I could not talk about my frustration with my dad to my friends (and maybe have a good temper tantrum to boot) I would not be able to be with him with the calm serenity that he needs and deserves.


Thank you, LTL.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Waitaminnit! Was this supported by tax money? Doesn't sound very healthy. (Ahh, I'm just jealous.)


Not your tax money, oh shining stella maris. This town does have a budget, albeit not too big, for us old 'uns and the easy ways to placate us. As for healthy, jury's out, but maybe if somehow, someway, the senior population decreased...(evil thoughts!)

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well yesterday was National Ice Cream Day


And we do have the freedom to make every day "Ice Cream Day,"
at least in our own homes, lol.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


Could you point us in the direction of that "rant"?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I think that I have heard that it is a good thing for folks as they get up in years to have a little extra meat on the bones...insurance for those times that illness makes it difficult to take in enough sustenance. 
I keep telling myself that this must definitely be true as my body clings to every last calorie I can find.



maysmom said:


> Not your tax money, oh shining stella maris. This town does have a budget, albeit not too big, for us old 'uns and the easy ways to placate us. As for healthy, jury's out, but maybe if somehow, someway, the senior population decreased...(evil thoughts!)
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The POTUS is,as I type, signing the Executive Order concerning workplace discrimination and our LGBTQ brothers and sisters.


Great! It is very much needed.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


lovethelake
Justice Ginsburg is brilliant while at least Thomas recognizes that his skills do not measure up to the rest of the Justices and keeps his mouth shut.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Well yesterday was National Ice Cream Day


lovethelake
every day is Ice Cream Day here. Switched to Ben & Jerry's, all natural ingredients. Eating Ice Cream regulary makes us exercise regularly. The equipment gets steady use.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


You should be so lucky to be as educated, informed, and as passionate as Ruth Bader-Ginsburg. She is a great attribute to out Supreme Court.

Hmm, now what is worse? Ginsburg raving about women's rights being infringed upon, or YOU ranting and raving every time POTUS plays golf??
I think if a vote was taken, the final result would be you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Justice Ginsburg is brilliant while at least Thomas recognizes that his skills do not measure up to the rest of the Justices and keeps his mouth shut.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You should be so lucky to be as educated, informed, and as passionate as Ruth Bader-Ginsburg. She is a great attribute to out Supreme Court.
> 
> Hmm, now what is worse? Ginsburg raving about women's rights being infringed upon, or YOU ranting and raving every time POTUS plays golf??
> I think if a vote was taken, the final result would be you.


BrattyPatty
I 2nd that. By the way all the Women on the Supreme Court are exceptional.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


What is professional about sexual harassment?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Additionally, being quiet doesn't indicate qualification for a profession. I think it simply means that a person is just smart enough to keep his mouth shut and NOT remove all doubt.



peacegoddess said:


> What is professional about sexual harassment?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Eastern Ukraine comes to mind.


Okay, but since they're mostly peasants, I think classist - if not racist - would apply here.   

Seriously, the probability of naming an African country as being lawless is probably way above 50%.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Eastern Ukraine is not fascistic. You are betting on the wrong horse. Western Ukraine is fueled by hatred of the Jews. Don't believe what you hear on the media. Follow the fuel.


We were talking about lawless countries. Fascistic ones have too many laws, usually to the detriment of their citizens.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Okay, both of you: Not only do you lose out on ice cream, but TV time will be cut in half, and you can only watch The Discovery Channel and Biography!



Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon said:
> 
> 
> > My statement was an extension of Poor Purl's thought...
> ...


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, both of you: Not only do you lose out on ice cream, but TV time will be cut in half, and you can only watch The Discovery Channel and Biography!


HAHAHAHAAA, do you REALLY think I have time for this and TV?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


 I guess you like the quiet, especially since a woman speaking her mind sounds to you like a ranting lunatic. I know that wasn't nasty because you've told me you're never nasty, but I'm beginning to doubt you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> You mean the movie, not the cartoon, right??
> :hunf: :hunf:


I mean the one with the pet dinosaur, whichever it was. (Actually, I've never seen an entire Flintstones episode in any form. My kid only watched Mr. Rogers; not even Sesame St. was calm enough for him.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well yesterday was National Ice Cream Day


Why did you wait until today to tell us? You couldn't hate us that much!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You should be so lucky to be as educated, informed, and as passionate as Ruth Bader-Ginsburg. She is a great attribute to out Supreme Court.
> 
> Hmm, now what is worse? Ginsburg raving about women's rights being infringed upon, or YOU ranting and raving every time POTUS plays golf??
> I think if a vote was taken, the final result would be you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What is professional about sexual harassment?


Or keeping one's mouth shut . . .


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You should be so lucky to be as educated, informed, and as passionate as Ruth Bader-Ginsburg. She is a great attribute to out Supreme Court.
> 
> Hmm, now what is worse? Ginsburg raving about women's rights being infringed upon, or YOU ranting and raving every time POTUS plays golf??
> I think if a vote was taken, the final result would be you.


One of my cousins was two years behind her in high school in Brooklyn, and says she was quite brilliant and well spoken at a young age. She was not afraid to take a stand on causes in which she believed.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Additionally, being quiet doesn't indicate qualification for a profession. I think it simply means that a person is just smart enough to keep his mouth shut and NOT remove all doubt.


The old saw about some politician or other: People though he was stupid until he opened his mouth - then they knew for sure.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I accept your apology but I have to say that it really hurt, coming from you. You are forgiven.


I am so sorry I hurt you. Was totally thoughtless of me and stupid. Totally unnecessary post. Sorry.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Why all the yelling?
> 
> Just because he doesn't rant and rave like Ginsburg does not mean he isn't qualified. Rather have him quiet and professional than a ranting lunatic like she is. In fact, he latest rant made me question her ability to be on the Court.


We don't wish to ask Thomas to rant and rave but it would be interesting if he is able to add something to the debate. He stays mute. For all these years. He knows he is outclassed. Plain and simple.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, both of you: Not only do you lose out on ice cream, but TV time will be cut in half, and you can only watch The Discovery Channel and Biography!


Poor Purl
may I PLEASE exchange Biography for History?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> We don't wish to ask Thomas to rant and rave but it would be interesting if he is able to add something to the debate. He stays mute. For all these years. He knows he is outclassed. Plain and simple.


SQM
the job is way beyond his expertise.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

In lieu of Purl I will say yes to History but only History 2 with all the alien encounters.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

This article came across at 1:17 EDT from the NY Times

Ukraine Rebels to Hand Over Downed Planes Data Recorders to Malaysia, Its Prime Minister Says

After days of obstruction, Russia-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine permitted Dutch forensics experts on Monday to search the wreckage of the downed Malaysia Airlines jetliner destroyed by a surface-to-air missile, allowed bodies of the victims to be evacuated by train and agreed to give the planes flight recorder boxes to the Malaysia government.

Prime Minister Najib Razak of Malaysia, in a live broadcast early Tuesday in Kuala Lumpur, said his government had reached an agreement with the Ukrainian separatists to gain control of the bodies, which were to be sent to the Netherlands, and the so-called black boxes recovered from the crash site.

Mr. Razak said the boxes were to be handed over to Malaysian representatives in Donetsk.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

HAHA HA HA, that is just too funny!



joeysomma said:


> Abortion Practitioners Are Haunted by Dreams of the Children They Aborted
> 
> by Jonathon Van Maren | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/21/14 1:34 PM
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> In lieu of Purl I will say yes to History but only History 2 with all the alien encounters.


SQM
I am not into Aliens yet. Someday perhaps.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Joeysomma,

I understand your belief regarding abortions, but I have a question I hope you will seriously consider answering. If abortions became illegal today across the U S and women began going to unqualified people for abortions or trying to abort themselves and woman lost their lives and health because of these attempts, how would you feel?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> You are sick to think that murder is funny. You are fortunate that it was not your mother having the abortion they are dreaming about.


If my mother had undergone a medical procedure that prevented my birth, I would be neither lucky nor unlucky. I would not be. 
Seems to me that someone who holds to such firm religious beliefs would understand that lack of being for all those souls who much find another way to be. 
Or do souls just dissipate?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are sick to think that murder is funny. You are fortunate that it was not your mother having the abortion they are dreaming about.


joeysomma
have a good day. Must be tough when a job you are trying to do has no results.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> Here we go again, her sarcasm went right over your head.
> 
> And you're the one that feels no compassion for a vulnerable widow being disparaged beyond belief.


Look in the mirror! You did the same thing!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

An excerpt from The New Yorker magazine


As for Thomas, he is physically transformed from his infamous confirmation hearings, in 1991a great deal grayer and heavier today, at the age of sixty-five. He also projects a different kind of silence than he did earlier in his tenure. In his first years on the Court, Thomas would rock forward, whisper comments about the lawyers to his neighbors Breyer and Kennedy, and generally look like he was acknowledging where he was. These days, Thomas only reclines; his leather chair is pitched so that he can stare at the ceiling, which he does at length. He strokes his chin. His eyelids look heavy. Every schoolteacher knows this look. Its called not paying attention.

Thomas has a part to play, if he wants to take it. The Noel Canning case, for example, raises a profound issue in constitutional law. Noel Canning, a bottling company, is challenging a ruling of the National Labor Relations Board on the ground that some of its members were appointed illegitimately. All Presidents have used recess appointments, often without much controversy; Obama did so in this case because Congress had refused to act on his nominations, to the point that the N.L.R.B. didnt have a quorum. But a close, literal reading of the Constitutions text suggests that the practice may be unconstitutional except in narrow circumstances. Does the meaning of the Constitution evolve over time, or is there only a single, immutable understanding of what it says?

Questioning the lawyer for Noel Canning, Breyer noted that Presidents have made thousands of recess appointments over the decades. Even if the Constitution could be read as prohibiting the practice, wasnt it clearly legal now? It isnt unheard of that over time language in the Constitution takes on a somewhat different meaning, Breyer said, noting that the definitions of due process and interstate commerce had clearly changed. I mean, probably different judges have different approaches, Breyer went on. But if Im concerned about the basic practicality and the basic objective here, why would I agree with you?

As the lawyer, Noel Francisco, hedged, Scalia jumped in. The two examples that Justice Breyer gives are examples where we gave it a meaning that was different from what it said. The audience, worldly in such matters, laughed. Breyer, the proponent of the living, changing Constitution, and Scalia, the originalist, have been having this argument for years. 

No one, however, has been more outspoken about this conflict, at least on paper, than Thomas, the most extreme originalist on the Court. Scalia believes that the Court owes some deference to its own precedents, even if they differ from the original meaning of the text. Thomas is happy to lay waste to decades, even centuries, of constitutional law. Clearly, then, Thomas could have contributed to this spirited, important debate. Instead, on this day he was, as usual, checked out.

For better or worse, Thomas has made important contributions to the jurisprudence of the Supreme Court. He has imported once outré conservative ideas, about such issues as gun rights under the Second Amendment and deregulation of political campaigns, into the mainstream. Scalia wrote District of Columbia v. Heller, which restricted gun control, and Kennedy wrote Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, which undermined decades of campaign-finance law, but Thomas was an intellectual godfather of both decisions. 

Still, there is more to the job of Supreme Court Justice than writing opinions. The Courts arguments are not televised (though they should be), but they are public. They are, in fact, the publics only windows onto the Justices thought processes, and they offer the litigants and their lawyers their only chance to look these arbiters in the eye and make their case. Theres a reason the phrase your day in court resonates. It is an indispensable part of the legal system. 

But the process works only if the Justices engage. The current Supreme Court is almost too ready to do so, and sometimes lawyers have a hard time getting a word in edgewise. In question-and-answer sessions at law schools, Thomas has said that his colleagues talk too much, that he wants to let the lawyers say their piece, and that the briefs tell him all he needs to know. But thisas his colleagues ability to provoke revealing exchanges demonstratesis nonsense. Thomas is simply not doing his job.

By refusing to acknowledge the advocates or his fellow-Justices, Thomas treats them all with disrespect. It would be one thing if Thomass petulance reflected badly only on himself, which it did for the first few years of his ludicrous behavior. But at this point, eight years on, Thomas is demeaning the Court. Imagine, for a moment, if all nine Justices behaved as Thomas does on the bench. The public would rightly, and immediately, lose all faith in the Supreme Court. Instead, the public has lost, and should lose, any confidence it might have in Clarence Thomas.

Photograph by Sidney Davis/Tribune Review/AP.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Incerpitude said:


> I hate to break it to you, but if you don't sense that KfN's rants had crossed the line from vent to 'pre-abuse justifications' than I think you're the kind of person we see interviewed by the local news after one of your neighbors is arrested for killing his wife and yousay "it's such a shock, he seemed like such a normal guy".
> 
> When in fact there were plenty of red flags to be seen.


So why aren't you on the phone, or better yet, a plane, to Nebraska? And for sweet goodness' sake, quit changing your usernames. Or come up with better ones.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> So why aren't you on the phone, or better yet, a plane, to Nebraska? And for sweet goodness' sake, quit changing your usernames. Or come up with better ones.


 :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Look in the mirror! You did the same thing!


Don't pay any attention, KFN, trolls gotta troll.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

This is not trolling, and you really must know that, why are you so angry at someone expressing concern for an elderly woman who has just lost her husband?
There have been threads upon threads here with women complaining about their DILs and people unquestioningly supporting them. Yet, when someone dares to suggest that there may be more than one side to the story people get all up in arms and start talking about supporting their "friend". 
This is a free and open forum. People get to express any concerns they have, don't they?



maysmom said:


> Don't pay any attention, KFN, trolls gotta troll.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Please give the website. I found: http://www.newyorker.com/search?query=clarence+thomas&qt=dismax&sort=score+desc
> 
> I searched for Clarence Thomas found 10 pages about 9 article beginning paragraphs on each and yours was not found. It would be nice for you to give the author, I may have found it with the author if you did not start your article with the beginning paragraph of the article.


This was a realy toughie.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/clarence-thomass-disgraceful-silence
God. woman. Learn to do a search.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Please give the website. I found: http://www.newyorker.com/search?query=clarence+thomas&qt=dismax&sort=score+desc
> 
> I searched for Clarence Thomas found 10 pages about 9 article beginning paragraphs on each and yours was not found. It would be nice for you to give the author, I may have found it with the author if you did not start your article with the beginning paragraph of the article.


www.newyorker.com/.../clarence-thomas-disgraceful

It was the second listing on googles list for my query Clarence Thomas. By the way, do you have an answer to my question regarding abortion being declared illegal and results?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> This is not trolling, and you really must know that, why are you so angry at someone expressing concern for an elderly woman who has just lost her husband?
> There have been threads upon threads here with women complaining about their DILs and people unquestioningly supporting them. Yet, when someone dares to suggest that there may be more than one side to the story people get all up in arms and start talking about supporting their "friend".
> This is a free and open forum. People get to express any concerns they have, don't they?


You think I'm angry? If you've been a member since 2012, I doubt you've paid much attention to my posts. This isn't angry, toots, just an eyeroll. I believe that you're jumping into this subject to merely stir the pot.

KFN, carry on. MIL will settle in more and more as each day passes. Keep firm to your boundaries.

    :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The polite adult thing to do would be to provide the website when the article is copied and posted. I do believe if you take some ones idea or words and publish them with out giving the proper person or magazine or website credit, you are guilty of Plagiarism.


I am fairly relaxed about posting things on KP and I did name the magazine. It is not a dissertation.

However, I am curious about whether you have an answer to my earlier question.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I am not into Aliens yet. Someday perhaps.


When you flew professionally did you ever see anything strange hovering around the cockpit?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Not even worth it.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The REALLY funny thing is that it wasn't even my post. 
I had the same info to go on as she did. The difference is that she wanted to whine and I wanted to find.



Incerpitude said:


> I think she thinks whenever she's able to see beyond "lifenews" she's demonstrating her google prowess. The reality is you let us know from where you got the info. She just needs to be spoonfed.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Nebraska's economy is in pretty good shape. A friend of mine from Omaha has a hard time hiring both unskilled and highly skilled workers because employment is good. 
Some temporary jobs might be a big pull in Idaho, people are traveling there from all over. 
Most of the people I have talked to FROM Nebrasa are just not interested.



joeysomma said:


> As far as the pipeline, It will bring immediate jobs to the country. Then the money earned by the pipeline workers will go into the Market place and many others will earn money, also. Who knows what will happen to our economy in the future. If we don't do something now there will be no improvement in the economy.
> 
> There are many pipelines crisscrossing our country now. Any environmental concerns would be minimal as the ones apt to leak will be the older ones that are already there. The oil will be transported anyway either by truck or train. In the past week two trains carrying oil collided and 5,000 gallons were spilled near a residential area. The pipelines are usually far away from residential areas


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jezebel.com/.../15-dangerous-and-deadly-methods-women-have-...


Jezebel
Jan 23, 2013 - 15 Dangerous and Deadly Methods Women Have Used When Abortion Is Illegal


KatieHalper
Katie Halper
Filed to: Roe v world	

15 Dangerous and Deadly Methods Women Have Used When Abortion Is Illegal
News flash: Sex isn't going anywhere. Even people who don't like abortion need to recognize that unwanted pregnancies and abortion aren't going anywhere, either (especially, and frustratingly, and ironically when many "pro-life" "anti-choice" people oppose contraception and any kind of effective sex-ed). Here is a mere sampling from relatively recent history of the uncomfortable, painful, dangerous and deadly methods a woman would use when when abortion wasn't legal or accesible.
·putting a leech up her vagina
·putting cayenne pepper up her vagina
·swallowing lye
·swallowing gunpowder
·throwing herself down the stairs
·hitting her stomach with a meat pulverizer
·hitting her stomach with a brickbat
·spending a night in the snow
·bathing herself in scalding water
·consuming turpentine
·consuming pulverized Spanish fly
·consuming opium
·consuming ergot, a fungus, which was especially effective at ending pregnancies, while at the same time bringing on gangrene, psychosis and death
·consuming Tansy oil, which rots internal organs
·probing herself with a knitting needle or the infamous hanger, which could cause infection, sterility, permanent injury, puncture, hemorrhage, and death
· 
This is where we've come from. And we can never go back.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Gee, I don't know. When?

http://priceofoil.org/2012/02/08/keystone-xl-benefits-from-taxpayer-subsidies/



joeysomma said:


> When was any government money involved in the pipeline?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> may I PLEASE exchange Biography for History?


Then it wouldn't be a punishment. If you stop bickering, you can watch History.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> In lieu of Purl I will say yes to History but only History 2 with all the alien encounters.


Since when am I entitled to a lieu? And you entitled to be it?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> As far as the pipeline, It will bring immediate jobs to the country. Then the money earned by the pipeline workers will go into the Market place and many others will earn money, also. Who knows what will happen to our economy in the future. If we don't do something now there will be no improvement in the economy.
> 
> There are many pipelines crisscrossing our country now. Any environmental concerns would be minimal as the ones apt to leak will be the older ones that are already there. The oil will be transported anyway either by truck or train. In the past week two trains carrying oil collided and 5,000 gallons were spilled near a residential area. The pipelines are usually far away from residential areas


TransCanada's record presents a strong case for rejecting Keystone XL tar sands pipeline (again)

Well here is commentary on Trans Canada's environmental record.
Anthony Swift 
Posted November 2, 2012 in Moving Beyond Oil, Solving Global Warming, U.S. Law and Policy
Tags: biogems, Bison, dirtyfuels, Keystone, KeystoneXL, oilsands, pipeline, pipelinesafety, tarsands, TransCanada

Canadian pipeline regulators have announced a sweeping audit of TransCanadas Canadian operations after confirming the account of a whistleblower documenting repeated violations of pipeline safety regulations by the company. This is the latest in a long series of accidents, shutdowns and pipeline safety infractions that have hounded the Canadian pipeline operator TransCanada, the sponsor of the embattled Keystone XL tar sands pipeline. Earlier this month, TransCanada was forced to shut its leak prone Keystone I tar sands pipeline down for four days after finding an anomaly  a technical term for cracks, corrosion or other defects in a pipeline which may lead to a rupture. Meanwhile, an investigative report revealed that TransCanada was aware of significant quality problems with it new Bison pipeline months before it exploded. Investigations by pipeline regulators and a succession of TransCanada whistleblowers paint a picture of a company that cuts corners compromising the safety of its pipelines, ignores its own quality control inspectors, and regards the minimum legal bar established by safety regulations as optional guidelines. The Keystone XL tar sands pipeline raises a variety of complex and significant issues, including the environmental impact of tar sands development, the risks associated with transporting it and the greater impact of tar sands spills. However TransCanadas performance over the last few years introduces a much simpler question  should we trust this company to build and operate any kind of pipeline, anywhere?

Lets take a look at the record.

Keystone I, a pipeline moving primarily tar sands from Alberta to the Midwest and Oklahoma, was TransCanadas first crude oil pipeline. TransCanada pitched it as a state-of-the-art pipeline which would meet or exceed world-class safety and environmental standards. In its environmental risks assessment, the company forecast that Keystone I would leak no more than 1.4 times a decade and noted that it had agreed to 51 special conditions that would increase its safety.

When construction on the project began in 2008, reality began to sharply diverge from TransCanadas rhetoric. As the Keystone I was being built, a pipeline inspector working for a TransCanada contractor, was alarmed by what he saw  cheap steel prone to cracking, bad welds, sloppy concrete jobs, poorly spaced rebar, and fudged pressure testing. When he reported these issues to TransCanada, he was ignored and ultimately fired.

Keystone I started having problems as soon as it commenced operations in 2010. In its first year, the pipeline leaked 14 times, with the largest spill exceeding 21,000 gallons. Federal pipeline regulators were forced to intervene, issuing a Corrective Action Order (CAO) temporarily shutting the pipeline down as an imminent threat to life, safety and the environment. Keystone I became the newest pipeline in U.S. history to receive such an order  the previous contender was a 25 year old pipeline.

After finishing Keystone I pipeline, TransCanada started a construction on its Bison natural gas pipeline in August 2010. However, soon after commencing the project, the company ran into troubles. In an internal memo in September 2010, the pipelines construction manager listed problems relating to welding and inspection, concluding we are in trouble with the Bison project.

Federal pipeline regulators inspecting the Bison project took issue with the quality-assurance of inspections, the qualifications of people working on the pipeline and the procedures used to test the coating on the pipe.

While aware of these issues, TransCanada touted the extra safety measures it was taking for its state-of-the-art Bison natural gas pipeline, claiming that the pipeline will be in place for 20 or 30 years before they need any repairs. Two months after TransCanada avowed the safety of its Bison pipeline, it exploded, destroying a sixty foot section with a shock wave that could be heard thirty miles away.

Evan Vokes, a TransCanada metallurgical engineer sent to sort out the problems with the Bison project, found examples of shoddy welding and poorly trained inspectors who were not identifying all of the welding problems. Moreover, he came to find similar shoddy practices through TransCanadas operations. In response to his concerns, his supervisors sent him what he describes as increasingly pressured emails about how things were OK to do it that way.

At the invitation of Russ Girling, TransCanada's CEO, Vokes provided documents to senior executives of the company that documented systemic failure to follow code and regulations in 2011. However, in the face of inaction by management and after determining that TransCanada was consistently placing budget and schedule considerations ahead of quality, he raised his concerns with Canadian pipeline regulators at the NEB. After an initial investigation, investigators corroborated many of Vokes claims and have launched a sweeping audit of TransCanadas operations. NEB regulators cited concern with TransCanadas non-compliance with NEB regulations and what may be an erosion of the safety culture at the company.

It is a recognition that there was something really wrong with TransCanada. Because in my letter to Russ Girling, I told him that [TransCanadas] business plan doesnt match the NEB regulations. Evan Vokes, Former TransCanada Metallurgist

Mr. Vokes actions have been laudable and NEBs decision to investigate them should be applauded. Unfortunately, no such action has been taken in the United States in response to Mike Klinks allegations. TransCanada initial argument that Kink was only one of many inspectors to allege safety shortcuts seems particularly feeble now that 1) Evan Vokes has made similar claims which have been corroborated by the NEB; 2) U.S pipeline regulators have already taken issue with the lack of quality-assurance inspections on TransCanadas pipelines and 3) in the NEBs investigation, TransCanada has publicly admitted it has pressured inspectors to sign off on work off to code.

The time has come for U.S. pipeline regulators to do their own due diligence into questions of TransCanadas safety practices. Moreover, as the next administration considers TransCanadas proposal to build Keystone XL, a 830,000 barrel per day tar sands pipeline across the Ogallala aquifer, it needs to consider whether TransCanada should be allowed to build any pipeline anywhere.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Since when am I entitled to a lieu? And you entitled to be it?


Don't fret. My lieu has been declined.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> I hate to break it to you, but if you don't sense that KfN's rants had crossed the line from vent to 'pre-abuse justifications' than I think you're the kind of person we see interviewed by the local news after one of your neighbors is arrested for killing his wife and yousay "it's such a shock, he seemed like such a normal guy".
> 
> When in fact there were plenty of red flags to be seen.


Incerpitude
KFN is very open with her feelings towards her MIL, you on the other hand are spekulating and that is dangerous.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I would have have a luau.

2 haves don't make a hole. 


Poor Purl said:


> Since when am I entitled to a lieu? And you entitled to be it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> HAHA HA HA, that is just too funny!


I knew William Rashbaum ("notorious abortion" poobah) and his wife. They were very fine, caring people. He was also a good ob-gyn.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Incerpitude
> KFN is very open with her feelings towards her MIL, you on the other hand are spekulating and that is dangerous.


And so is everyone else. for all anyone knows KFN has no MIL. 
Have you met her? Talked to her on the phone? Used SKYPE with her, have you?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> Here we go again, her sarcasm went right over your head.
> 
> And you're the one that feels no compassion for a vulnerable widow being disparaged beyond belief.


Incerpitude
It did? Really? Honestly? As to my compassion for the "vulnerable" widow, I see nothing vulnerable about her. I am VERY sure that she is grieving but that does not giver her the right to abuse others.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are sick to think that murder is funny. You are fortunate that it was not your mother having the abortion they are dreaming about.


If it had been her mother, she wouldn't have known about it.

What's funny is that you believe all that's written here is true.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huck - I cannot make out your avatar. What am I seeing?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Incerpitude
> It did? Really? Honestly? As to my compassion for the "vulnerable" widow, I see nothing vulnerable about her. I am VERY sure that she is grieving but that does not giver her the right to abuse others.


I think that was exactly the point. You know nothing about this woman but what you have seen typed on an anonymous website and yet you are prepared to swear that one would never abuse the other while suggesting that the other thinks she has a right to abuse others. 
There is no logic there at all. None.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Joeysomma,
> 
> I understand your belief regarding abortions, but I have a question I hope you will seriously consider answering. If abortions became illegal today across the U S and women began going to unqualified people for abortions or trying to abort themselves and woman lost their lives and health because of these attempts, how would you feel?


Ooh, ooh, can I answer this? Obviously, they deserved to die because a) they wanted to commit murder; b) they had sex outside of marriage; or c) who cares about them?; they're post-born.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> You think I'm angry? If you've been a member since 2012, I doubt you've paid much attention to my posts. This isn't angry, toots, just an eyeroll. I believe that you're jumping into this subject to merely stir the pot.
> 
> KFN, carry on. MIL will settle in more and more as each day passes. Keep firm to your boundaries.
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


maysmom
if KFN had no compassion and only ill feeling towards her MIL she would not care for her as she does. Miss Incer(t)itude as you said is trying to disturb a hornet's nest. I chime in with you in suggesting that KFN carries on.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Pipelines Explained: How Safe are Americas 2.5 Million Miles of Pipelines?

by Lena Groeger
ProPublica, Nov. 15, 2012, 2:27 p.m.

At 6:11 p.m. on September 6, 2010, San Bruno, Calif. 911 received an urgent call. A gas station had just exploded and a fire with flames reaching 300 feet was raging through the neighborhood. The explosion was so large that residents suspected an airplane crash. But the real culprit was found underground: a ruptured pipeline spewing natural gas caused a blast that left behind a 72 foot long crater, killed eight people, and injured more than fifty.

Over 2,000 miles away in Michigan, workers were still cleaning up another pipeline accident, which spilled 840,000 gallons of crude oil into the Kalamazoo River in 2010. Estimated to cost $800 million, the accident is the most expensive pipeline spill in U.S. history.

Over the last few years a series of incidents have brought pipeline safety to national  and presidential  attention. As Obama begins his second term he will likely make a key decision on the controversial Keystone XL pipeline, a proposed pipeline extension to transport crude from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico. 

The administration first delayed the permit for the pipeline on environmental grounds, but has left the door open to future proposals for Keystones northern route. Construction on the southern route is already underway, sparking fierce opposition from some landowners and environmentalists.

The problem, protesters say, is that any route will pose hazards to the public. While pipeline operator TransCanada has declared that Keystone will be the safest pipeline ever built in North America, critics are skeptical. 

It's inevitable that as pipelines age, as they are exposed to the elements, eventually they are going to spill, said Tony Iallonardo of the National Wildlife Federation. Theyre ticking time bombs." 

Critics of the Keystone proposal point to the hundreds of pipeline accidents that occur every year. They charge that system wide, antiquated pipes, minimal oversight and inadequate precautions put the public and the environment at increasing risk. Pipeline operators point to billions of dollars spent on new technologies and a gradual improvement over the last two decades as proof of their commitment to safety.

Pipelines are generally regarded as a safe way to transport fuel, a far better alternative to tanker trucks or freight trains. The risks inherent in transporting fuel through pipelines are analogous to the risks inherent in traveling by airplane. Airplanes are safer than cars, which kill about 70 times as many people a year (highway accidents killed about 33,000 people in 2010, while aviation accidents killed 472). But when an airplane crashes, it is much more deadly than any single car accident, demands much more attention, and initiates large investigations to determine precisely what went wrong. 

The same holds true for pipelines. Based on fatality statistics from 2005 through 2009, oil pipelines are roughly 70 times as safe as trucks, which killed four times as many people during those years, despite transporting only a tiny fraction of fuel shipments. But when a pipeline does fail, the consequences can be catastrophic (though typically less so than airplane accidents), with the very deadliest accidents garnering media attention and sometimes leading to a federal investigation.

While both air travel and pipelines are safer than their road alternatives, the analogy only extends so far. Airplanes are replaced routinely and older equipment is monitored regularly for airworthiness and replaced when it reaches its safety limits. Pipelines, on the other hand, can stay underground, carrying highly pressurized gas and oil for decades  even up to a century and beyond. And while airplanes have strict and uniform regulations and safety protocols put forth by the Federal Aviation Administration, such a uniform set of standards does not exist for pipelines. 

Critics maintain that while theyre relatively safe, pipelines should be safer. In many cases, critics argue, pipeline accidents could have been prevented with proper regulation from the government and increased safety measures by the industry. The 2.5 million miles of Americas pipelines suffer hundreds of leaks and ruptures every year, costing lives and money. As existing lines grow older, critics warn that the risk of accidents on those lines will only increase.

While states with the most pipeline mileage  like Texas, California, and Louisiana  also have the most incidents, breaks occur throughout the far-flung network of pipelines. Winding under city streets and countryside, these lines stay invisible most of the time. Until they fail.

Since 1986, pipeline accidents have killed more than 500 people, injured over 4,000, and cost nearly seven billion dollars in property damages. Using government data, ProPublica has mapped thousands of these incidents in a new interactive news application, which provides detailed information about the cause and costs of reported incidents going back nearly three decades.

Pipelines break for many reasons  from the slow deterioration of corrosion to equipment or weld failures to construction workers hitting pipes with their excavation equipment. Unforeseen natural disasters also lead to dozens of incidents a year. This year Hurricane Sandy wreaked havoc on the natural gas pipelines on New Jerseys barrier islands. From Bay Head to Long Beach Island, falling trees, dislodged homes and flooding caused more than 1,600 pipeline leaks. All leaks have been brought under control and no one was harmed, according to a New Jersey Natural Gas spokeswoman. But the company was forced to shut down service to the region, leaving 28,000 people without gas, and it may be months before they get it back. 

One of the biggest problems contributing to leaks and ruptures is pretty simple: pipelines are getting older. More than half of the nation's pipelines are at least 50 years old. Last year in Allentown Pa., a natural gas pipeline exploded underneath a city street, killing five people who lived in the houses above and igniting a fire that damaged 50 buildings. The pipeline  made of cast iron  had been installed in 1928.
A fire rages through Allentown, PA, after a gas line explosion in Feb. 2011 
Not all old pipelines are doomed to fail, but time is a big contributor to corrosion, a leading cause of pipeline failure. Corrosion has caused between 15 and 20 percent of all reported significant incidents, which is bureaucratic parlance for an incident that resulted in a death, injury or extensive property damage. Thats over 1,400 incidents since 1986.

Corrosion is also cited as a chief concern of opponents of the Keystone XL extension. The new pipeline would transport a type of crude called diluted bitumen, or dilbit. Keystones critics make the case that the chemical makeup of this heavier type of oil is much more corrosive than conventional oil, and over time could weaken the pipeline.

Operator TransCanada says that the Keystone XL pipeline will transport crude similar to whats been piped into the U.S. for more than a decade, and that the new section of pipeline will be built and tested to meet all federal safety requirements. And in fact, none of the 14 spills that happened in the existing Keystone pipeline since 2010 were caused by corrosion, according to an investigation by the U.S. Department of State.

The specific effects of dilbit on pipelines  and whether the heavy crude would actually lead to more accidents  is not definitively understood by scientists. The National Academies of Science is currently in the middle of study on dilbit and pipeline corrosion, due out by next year. In the meantime, TransCanada has already begun construction of the southern portion of the line, but has no assurance it will get a permit from the Obama administration to build the northern section. (NPR has a detailed map of the existing and proposed routes.)



Little Government Regulation for Thousands of Miles

While a slew of federal and state agencies oversee some aspect of Americas pipelines, the bulk of government monitoring and enforcement falls to a small agency within the Department of Transportation called the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration  pronounced FIM-sa by insiders. The agency only requires that seven percent of natural gas lines and 44 percent of all hazardous liquid lines be subject to their rigorous inspection criteria and inspected regularly. The rest of the regulated pipelines are still inspected, according to a PHMSA official, but less often.

The inconsistent rules and inspection regime come in part from a historical accident. In the 60's and 70's, two laws established a federal role in pipeline safety and set national rules for new pipelines. For example, operators were required to conduct more stringent testing to see whether pipes could withstand high pressures, and had to meet new specifications for how deep underground pipelines must be installed. 

But the then-new rules mostly didnt apply to pipelines already built  such as the pipeline that exploded in San Bruno. That pipeline, which burst open along a defective seam weld, would never have passed modern high-pressure requirements according to a federal investigation. But because it was installed in 1956, it was never required to. 

"No one wanted all the companies to dig up and retest their pipelines," explained Carl Weimer, executive director of the Pipeline Safety Trust, a public charity that promotes fuel transportation safety. So older pipes were essentially grandfathered into less testing, he said.
A burned out car and charred remains of a home in San Bruno, C.A. after a pipeline explosion in Sept. 2010 
Later reforms in the 1990s mandated more testing for oil pipelines, and today PHMSA requires operators to test pipelines in "high consequence" areas, which include population centers or areas near drinking water. But many old pipelines in rural areas arent covered by the same strict regulations. 

Some types of pipelines  such as the gathering lines that connect wells to process facilities or larger transmission lines  lack any PHMSA regulation at all. A GAO report estimates that of the roughly 230,000 miles of gathering lines, only 24,000 are federally regulated. Because many of these lines operate at lower pressures and generally go through remote areas, says the GAO, the government collects no data on ruptures or spills, and has no enforced standards for pipeline strength, welds, or underground depth on the vast majority of these pipes.

The problem, critics argue, is that todays gathering lines no longer match their old description. Driven in part by the rising demands of hydraulic fracturing, operators have built thousands of miles of new lines to transport gas from fracked wells. Despite the fact that these lines are often just as wide as transmission lines (some up to 2 feet in diameter) and can operate under the same high pressures, they receive little oversight.

Operators use a risk-based system to maintain their pipelines  instead of treating all pipelines equally, they focus safety efforts on the lines deemed most risky, and those that would cause the most harm if they failed. The problem is that each company use different criteria, so "it's a nightmare for regulators," Weimer said.

However, Andrew Black, the president of the Association of Oil Pipe Lines, a trade group whose members include pipeline operators, said that a one-size-fits-all approach would actually make pipelines less safe, because operators (not to mention pipelines) differ so widely.

"Different operators use different pipe components, using different construction techniques, carrying different materials over different terrains," he said. Allowing operators to develop their own strategies for each pipeline is critical to properly maintaining its safety, he contended.



Limited Resources Leave Inspections to Industry

Critics say that PHMSA lacks the resources to adequately monitor the millions of miles of pipelines over which it does have authority. The agency has funding for only 137 inspectors, and often employs even less than that (in 2010 the agency had 110 inspectors on staff). A Congressional Research Service report found a long-term pattern of understaffing in the agencys pipeline safety program. According to the report, between 2001 and 2009 the agency reported a staffing shortfall of an average of 24 employees a year. 

A New York Times investigation last year found that the agency is chronically short of inspectors because it just doesnt have enough money to hire more, possibly due to competition from the pipeline companies themselves, who often hire away PHMSA inspectors for their corporate safety programs, according to the CRS.

Given the limitations of government money and personnel, it is often the industry that inspects its own pipelines. Although federal and state inspectors review paperwork and conduct audits, most on-site pipeline inspections are done by inspectors on the companys dime.

The industrys relationship with PHMSA may go further than inspections, critics say. The agency has adopted, at least in part, dozens of safety standards written by the oil and natural gas industry.

"This isn't like the fox guarding the hen house," said Weimer. "It's like the fox designing the hen house."

Operators point out that defining their own standards allows the inspection system to tap into real-world expertise. Adopted standards go through a rulemaking process that gives stakeholders and the public a chance to comment and suggest changes, according to the agency.

Questions have also been raised about the ties between agency officials and the companies they regulate. Before joining the agency in 2009, PHMSA administrator Cynthia Quarterman worked as a legal counsel for Enbridge Energy, the operator involved in the Kalamazoo River accident. But under her leadership, the agency has also brought a record number of enforcement cases against operators, and imposed the highest civil penalty in the agencys history on the company she once represented.



Proposed Solutions Spark Debate

How to adequately maintain the diversity of pipelines has proved to be a divisive issue  critics arguing for more automatic tests and safety measures and companies pointing to the high cost of such additions.

One such measure is the widespread installation of automatic or remote-controlled shutoff valves, which can quickly stop the flow of gas or oil in an emergency. These valves could help avoid a situation like that after the Kalamazoo River spill, which took operators 17 hours from the initial rupture to find and manually shut off. Operators use these valves already on most new pipelines, but argue that replacing all valves would not be cost-effective and false alarms would unnecessarily shut down fuel supplies. The CRS estimates that even if automatic valves were only required on pipelines in highly populated areas, replacing manual valves with automatic ones could cost the industry hundreds of millions of dollars.
A worker on the Kalamazoo river, helping to clean up an oil spill of almost a million gallons from a ruptured pipeline in July 2010 
Other measures focus on preventing leaks and ruptures in the first place. The industry already uses robotic devices called "smart pigs" to crawl through a pipeline, clearing debris and taking measurements to detect any problems. But not all pipelines can accommodate smart pigs, and operators dont routinely run the devices through every line.

Just last month, a smart pig detected a small anomaly in the existing Keystone pipeline, prompting TransCanada to shut down the entire line. Environmentalists pointed out that this is not the first time TransCananda has called for a shut down, and wont be the last.

The reason TransCanada needs to keep shutting down Keystone, the director of the National Wildlife Federation contended in a statement, is because pipelines are inherently dangerous.

Last January, Obama signed a bill that commissioned several new studies to evaluate some of these proposed safety measures, although his decision on extending the Keystone pipeline may come long before those studies are completed.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Ooh, ooh, can I answer this? Obviously, they deserved to die because a) they wanted to commit murder; b) they had sex outside of marriage; or c) who cares about them?; they're post-born.


I know you were jumping in your seat and waving your raised hand to answer this question (tee hee), but it is Joeysomma's turn to answer.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> As far as the pipeline, It will bring immediate jobs to the country. Then the money earned by the pipeline workers will go into the Market place and many others will earn money, also. Who knows what will happen to our economy in the future. If we don't do something now there will be no improvement in the economy.
> 
> There are many pipelines crisscrossing our country now. Any environmental concerns would be minimal as the ones apt to leak will be the older ones that are already there. The oil will be transported anyway either by truck or train. In the past week two trains carrying oil collided and 5,000 gallons were spilled near a residential area. The pipelines are usually far away from residential areas


Here's the thing about the pipeline. We're not talking about regular oil. It's "tar sands oil". It's too think to flow through a pipeline so they must thin it with chemicals to get it to flow. Trans Canada won't divulge the exact combination of chemicals. They say it's a trade secret. But they are highly toxic, cancer causing chemicals. The man who was hired by TC to inspect the pipes for the original pipeline, was quoted in our newspaper as saying that the piping material was ordered from China and is defective, very poor quality. He reported that to his employers and was fired.

The original pipeline has had several leaks already. But there's a big difference in the existing pipeline and the proposed one. The proposed pipeline runs right over the Ogalala Aquifer. The Aquifer runs all the way down to Texas. Not only does it provide drinking water for many people in the middle of the country, but it also supplies irrigation water to the majority of crops in our nation. If this pipeline were to leak, sure, they'd clean up the oil. But the toxic chemicals would seep down into the aquifer and our food would be poisoned, yours and mine. There is no way of removing this toxic soup from the aquifer.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of the jobs will go to Canadians. The jobs are temporary. And the oil will go to China. Do you think the risk to our children and our grandchildren is worth it? We already know that the pipelines leak! Do we poison millions of people for a few temporary jobs?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then it wouldn't be a punishment. If you stop bickering, you can watch History.


Poor Purl
I stop when I feel like it. So sorry, am not an obedient child anymore. I will forego History for freedom of speech. O.k.?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Snicker, nanny nanny boo boo



peacegoddess said:


> I know you were jumping in your seat and waving your raised hand to answer this question (tee hee), but it is Joeysomma's turn to answer.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> An excerpt from The New Yorker magazine
> 
> As for Thomas, he is physically transformed from his infamous confirmation hearings, in 1991a great deal grayer and heavier today, at the age of sixty-five. He also projects a different kind of silence than he did earlier in his tenure. In his first years on the Court, Thomas would rock forward, whisper comments about the lawyers to his neighbors Breyer and Kennedy, and generally look like he was acknowledging where he was. These days, Thomas only reclines; his leather chair is pitched so that he can stare at the ceiling, which he does at length. He strokes his chin. His eyelids look heavy. Every schoolteacher knows this look. Its called not paying attention.
> 
> ...


I read this when it was published. The part I remember most vividly is "These days, Thomas only reclines; his leather chair is pitched so that he can stare at the ceiling, which he does at length. He strokes his chin. His eyelids look heavy. Every schoolteacher knows this look. Its called 'not paying attention.' Not only is this unprofessional; it's unbelievably rude and dismissive of the people whose lives will be changed by his vote.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:



> Huck - I cannot make out your avatar. What am I seeing?


SQM
a bronze Colt with a knitted Hat. Have to keep its ears warm.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> TransCanada's record presents a strong case for rejecting Keystone XL tar sands pipeline (again)
> 
> Well here is commentary on Trans Canada's environmental record.
> Anthony Swift
> ...


Sorry, goddess. I hadn't seen your post before I posted.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

It bears repetition. I bet you might be a bit freaked by the idea of the pipe line coming through Nebraska.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The polite adult thing to do would be to provide the website when the article is copied and posted. I do believe if you take some ones idea or words and publish them with out giving the proper person or magazine or website credit, you are guilty of Plagiarism.


If she lists where it came from it isn't plagiarism.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Please give the website. I found: http://www.newyorker.com/search?query=clarence+thomas&qt=dismax&sort=score+desc
> 
> I searched for Clarence Thomas found 10 pages about 9 article beginning paragraphs on each and yours was not found. It would be nice for you to give the author, I may have found it with the author if you did not start your article with the beginning paragraph of the article.


Daily Comment
FEBRUARY 21, 2014
Clarence Thomass Disgraceful Silence
BY JEFFREY TOOBIN


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> This was a realy toughie.
> 
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/clarence-thomass-disgraceful-silence
> God. woman. Learn to do a search.


Took about 3 minutes, including Googling The New Yorker.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Incerpitude said:


> This is what I mean about enabling abusers.
> 
> Arguing that the *itch deserves it is what every man who slapped his wife around has argued was a justification.
> 
> ...


I guess you are determined to see Nebraska as the embodiment of Cruella DeVille.

In the months that she has been exchanging thoughts with people on this thread she has come across consistently as a good person. I think it is a healthy thing for her to have this venue where she can express her frustrations. She is not the only one of us who has had the responsibility for a difficult relative thrust upon her. She can come here, vent, take a deep breath, then go back to care giving.

I think she has had this responsibility unfairly thrown at her and that her MIL's other children and in law children are taking blatant advantage of her. If she were evil, she would have packed up her MIL, part and parcel and put her on a bus to one of her other children where it is doubtful MIL would have gotten the consideration Nebraska is giving her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> If she lists where it came from it isn't plagiarism.


alcameron
Shows us what she knows (not). Sounds like Sarah, the failed Governor, is among us. Big words being used without knowing their meaning.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The polite adult thing to do would be to provide the website when the article is copied and posted. I do believe if you take some ones idea or words and publish them with out giving the proper person or magazine or website credit, you are guilty of Plagiarism.


Are you gonna sue her? She did name the magazine. It's not plagiarism.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I get the sense that KFN may not like all of the ways that it has been expressed but understands that the concern is genuine, more so then some of the others, even. 
Just as with the MIL, KFN has had a loss in the FIL. It seems that she was quite fond of him. 
We all know that stress can make us a bit loopy. How about if we root for her and share some tips for surviving?



Incerpitude said:


> Agreed. Even KfN mentions that she even hates it that her MIL tries too hard to be "sweet". It could be tha
> 
> t this woman just breaths and KfN will tuenit into some personal offense.
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> It's not what "might" happen it's what anyone with a bit of common sense would know will happen.
> 
> And there are MANY dead pilgums who should have known their own limitation and chose not to make the trip.
> 
> There is no good reason to take those risks when there's much better things to spend our money on that will be a much better benefit to our economy and way of life.


Incerpitude
we do agree.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> As far as the pipeline, It will bring immediate jobs to the country. Then the money earned by the pipeline workers will go into the Market place and many others will earn money, also. Who knows what will happen to our economy in the future. If we don't do something now there will be no improvement in the economy.
> 
> There are many pipelines crisscrossing our country now. Any environmental concerns would be minimal as the ones apt to leak will be the older ones that are already there. The oil will be transported anyway either by truck or train. In the past week two trains carrying oil collided and 5,000 gallons were spilled near a residential area. The pipelines are usually far away from residential areas


This is your answer to Peacegoddess's question "If abortions became illegal today across the U S and women began going to unqualified people for abortions or trying to abort themselves and woman lost their lives and health because of these attempts, how would you feel?" Bizarre.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> Not speculating at all.
> 
> It's denial that is MUCH more dangerous.
> 
> Just because you fail to see what I see doen't mean it's not there.


Put up or shut up! I spoke truth! The only nasty things were true and were things directed at me. The only one that's ever suffered any abuse in this relationship is me! So if you want to keep spreading your poison, prove it! Show me one single thing I said that would indicate that my mil is in danger! I know that you can't because I went back and read all of my posts. There is absolutely nothing! Relating true facts is not the equivalent of abuse.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I would have have a luau.
> 
> 2 haves don't make a hole.


Oh yes they due.

And a luau in lieu of a loo, says Lulu.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I think the answer to the XL pipeline is an easy "no." It poses a danger to the states it'll run through, it won't produce any long-term jobs, and we ain't gonna get the oil. Am I wrong?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> And so is everyone else. for all anyone knows KFN has no MIL.
> Have you met her? Talked to her on the phone? Used SKYPE with her, have you?


Well, for that matter, who the heck are YOU? You sign up on Sept 2, 2012 and make one post. Then, nothing until June 26, 2014. Then you jump right in making accusations of which you know nothing about! At least I've been conversing with these people for quite a while. My statements are consistent because they are true.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Incerpitude said:


> As you are determined to see the MIL as Cruella DeVille despite your only having heard one side of the story.
> 
> And I don't see KfN as such, I just find her behavior here increasingly disturbing and don't find "the old hen is a.*itch on wheels" justification convincing.
> 
> If her MiL' past behavior prevents her from viewing her with compassion, she is not the person who should be caring for her and should never have agreed to have her move in.


I see the MIL as a pathetic woman who has been carried around on a silk pillow all her adult life and really is incapable of being self sufficient. I also see her as a user. Shall we wonder why the rest of the family has walked away from any filial responsibility?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I know you were jumping in your seat and waving your raised hand to answer this question (tee hee), but it is Joeysomma's turn to answer.


Okay, Teach.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think the answer to the XL pipeline is an easy "no." It poses a danger to the states it'll run through, it won't produce any long-term jobs, and we ain't gonna get the oil. Am I wrong?


Sounds right to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here's the thing about the pipeline. We're not talking about regular oil. It's "tar sands oil". It's too think to flow through a pipeline so they must thin it with chemicals to get it to flow. Trans Canada won't divulge the exact combination of chemicals. They say it's a trade secret. But they are highly toxic, cancer causing chemicals. The man who was hired by TC to inspect the pipes for the original pipeline, was quoted in our newspaper as saying that the piping material was ordered from China and is defective, very poor quality. He reported that to his employers and was fired.
> 
> The original pipeline has had several leaks already. But there's a big difference in the existing pipeline and the proposed one. The proposed pipeline runs right over the Ogalala Aquifer. The Aquifer runs all the way down to Texas. Not only does it provide drinking water for many people in the middle of the country, but it also supplies irrigation water to the majority of crops in our nation. If this pipeline were to leak, sure, they'd clean up the oil. But the toxic chemicals would seep down into the aquifer and our food would be poisoned, yours and mine. There is no way of removing this toxic soup from the aquifer.
> 
> Keep in mind that the vast majority of the jobs will go to Canadians. The jobs are temporary. And the oil will go to China. Do you think the risk to our children and our grandchildren is worth it? We already know that the pipelines leak! Do we poison millions of people for a few temporary jobs?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I stop when I feel like it. So sorry, am not an obedient child anymore. I will forego History for freedom of speech. O.k.?


OK. But then it must be Biography.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/miracle-baby-survives-miscarriage-abortion-3817808 Miracle baby survives miscarriage AND abortion pill to be born healthy

Jul 06, 2014 07:00
By Laura Elvin

Michelle Hui had been pregnant with twins and miscarried, but Megan, now 18 weeks old, miraculously survived

7478 Shares
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SWNS
Happy: Michelle and Ross Hui with baby Megan and children Mya, 4, and Noah, 2

Expectant mum Michelle Hui was devastated when she had a miscarriage six weeks into her pregnancy.

Five scans confirmed her loss, then she had the trauma of taking an abortion pill to make sure nothing was left behind to cause infection.

But days later Michelle, 31, was being prepared for a final treatment to clear her uterus when incredibly a ­preparatory scan revealed a tiny heartbeat.

Amazed doctors discovered that she had been pregnant with twins  and one had miraculously survived both the miscarriage and the abortion.

Already a mum of two, Michelle went on to give birth to a beautiful baby girl, Megan, now 18 weeks old.

She and her salesman husband Ross, 33, could not be more proud.

SWNS Baby scan showing Megan Hui
Proof: Baby scan showing Megan Hui

The miscarriage and abortion were absolutely horrific, she said.

The 10 days between the miscarriage and going back to the hospital were just a blur.

To find out I had to go in for another procedure, I was devastated.

But then I saw this little heartbeat, but I thought it couldnt be right. After all we had been through, I didnt want to get my hopes up.

The doctor went out and came back in with a more senior doctor and he did the scan again and he said, you are not going to believe it, weve got a heartbeat. It was the best feeling ever.

Now Megan is fine, shes healthy and she is just a big healthy pudding of a baby. The doctors said it was a blessing. They have never heard of anything like it. Someone had been looking over us.

Michelle, who works for a bank, was six weeks and two days into her ­pregnancy when she suffered the miscarriage while walking to the train station last July.

Everything was fine initially, she said. I had booked in my scan and had an appointment the next day.

I was on my way to work and I just started gushing blood. I rang my husband and told him I was losing the baby. He couldnt come and get me because he had the other two kids so I had to walk home.

SWNS Michelle Hui with baby Megan
Miracle: Michelle Hui with baby Megan

She then went to the Rotunda Hospital in Dublin where she claims two different doctors carried out a total of five scans before concluding she had lost her baby.

She was given two abortion pills and after an overnight stay at the hospital was allowed home.

She said: After I lost the baby I went out with friends and had a bottle and a half of wine. I was devastated  and drank myself silly. I never ever drink that much. Im not a drinker.

While doctors said there was no chance she was still pregnant, she was told to take a pregnancy test which would reveal whether any harmful clots had remained.

The test was positive, so she went back to hospital for a D&C (dilation and ­curettage)  a surgical procedure to remove the contents of the uterus. But it was at that point the doctors spotted a heartbeat on a scan. I couldnt believe it, said Michelle. Neither could the doctors. But as happy as I was, I was angry they had missed her on the scans.

They said that with all the blood and clots it must have created shadows so they couldnt see her.

They said I was blessed.

Ive been written about in medical journals, and the doctor said that in all his 25 years he has never come across or heard of anything like this.

Megan was born on February 25, weighing just under six pounds, a little sister to Mya, four, and Noah, two.

SWNS Baby Megan Hui
Perfect: Baby Megan Hui

Shes our little miracle, added Michelle, of County Kildare, Ireland. We were always a strong family, but it has just made us stronger. I wouldnt have been able to get through it all if it had not been for my husband and my two children.

It was an incredibly difficult time, but now we have a precious and healthy little girl.

The Association of Radical Midwives said it had never heard of such a case.

Spokeswoman Katherine Hales, a midwife of 20 years, said: It certainly is an amazing story.

I have very, very occasionally heard of rare cases of a miscarriage of one baby, and then seeing another on
the scan.

But I have never heard of this happening after (abortion pill) ­mifepristone. I cant think of a medical reason for it to happen  it is just luck. The twins should be the same size. You would presume that the second one was the same size and they would see it on the scan.

I suppose because they couldnt detect the second  perhaps there was a disparity in the gestation between the two  but hormonally that really should not happen, and even if it does you are talking hours difference, not days.

It really is an extraordinary case and I would be interested to see if in fact there is even another case out there
like this.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It bears repetition. I bet you might be a bit freaked by the idea of the pipe line coming through Nebraska.


I am but so should everyone be.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I see the MIL as a pathetic woman who has been carried around on a silk pillow all her adult life and really is incapable of being self sufficient. I also see her as a user. Shall we wonder why the rest of the family has walked away from any filial responsibility?


According to Nebraska, the mil's only other child is a drug-addicted wastrel whose daughter Nebraska and her husband adopted to keep her safe from her biological parents. So it was Nebraska or nothing.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> You know only KfN's version.
> 
> And when it was suggested the woman had no one else KfN protested and said she's constantly on the phone with friends and family members. So KfN will have to decide which version she's going to provide next.


Look, I don't know who you are, and to tell you the truth, I really don't give a flying flip. You are probably on new user name 25 by now. Of course we only know KFN's version, however, what background do you have that you can determine what you think may be in her mind? This woman has gone way beyond what some women would do for a MIL, with patience in the face of being abused by the MIL. Get a grip, KFN will make it through and should be allowed to express her frustrations here, a safe place for her to unload her stress, better here than unloading on an unappreciative MIL. Now go stir the pot elsewhere or participate in the discussion without unwarranted attacks about something which you seem to have very limited knowledge.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Are some of us starting to feel the effects of low blood sugar? And acting out?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Are some of us starting to feel the effects of low blood sugar? And acting out?


Well, I haven't eaten dinner yet but some of these kids in other time zones may have.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I guess you are determined to see Nebraska as the embodiment of Cruella DeVille.
> 
> In the months that she has been exchanging thoughts with people on this thread she has come across consistently as a good person. I think it is a healthy thing for her to have this venue where she can express her frustrations. She is not the only one of us who has had the responsibility for a difficult relative thrust upon her. She can come here, vent, take a deep breath, then go back to care giving.
> 
> I think she has had this responsibility unfairly thrown at her and that her MIL's other children and in law children are taking blatant advantage of her. If she were evil, she would have packed up her MIL, part and parcel and put her on a bus to one of her other children where it is doubtful MIL would have gotten the consideration Nebraska is giving her.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> And so is everyone else. for all anyone knows KFN has no MIL.
> Have you met her? Talked to her on the phone? Used SKYPE with her, have you?


I wonder what you feel you are gaining by attacking someone you don't know and who has been open and honest here. You
wont let it go. We haven't talked to you on the phone, we haven't talked to you on skype. What is your point. I think you are enjoying sayting hurtful things. Wonder why.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I get the sense that KFN may not like all of the ways that it has been expressed but understands that the concern is genuine, more so then some of the others, even.
> Just as with the MIL, KFN has had a loss in the FIL. It seems that she was quite fond of him.
> We all know that stress can make us a bit loopy. How about if we root for her and share some tips for surviving?


Why don't we quit jumping to conclusions, and quit attacking her until we know what we are talking about.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Why don't we quit jumping to conclusions, and quit attacking her until we know what we are talking about.


I guess I'm just not all that suspicious of KFN. She's trying to deal with a difficult situation and feels she can vent here. Haven't we all vented from time to time?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Don't let her worry you. She seems to feel she can make judgments when she doesn't have anything to go by and absolutely no proof. I hope you are doing well. Just ignore it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Incerpitude said:


> You know only KfN's version?
> 
> And when it was suggested the woman had no one else KfN protested and said she's constantly on the phone with friends and family members. So KfN will have to decide which version she's going to provide next. The estranged woman no one will talk to or the woman who wont ger off her phone.


I don't know what you are getting out of this conversation. She is not hurting you, and has been here for sometime. Why don't you let it rest.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Put up or shut up! I spoke truth! The only nasty things were true and were things directed at me. The only one that's ever suffered any abuse in this relationship is me! So if you want to keep spreading your poison, prove it! Show me one single thing I said that would indicate that my mil is in danger! I know that you can't because I went back and read all of my posts. There is absolutely nothing! Relating true facts is not the equivalent of abuse.


Knitter frm Nebraska
please, do not lose any sleep over people who are on a witch hunt. They are wannabe Psychiatrists who did not qualify to study the subject matter.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I guess you are determined to see Nebraska as the embodiment of Cruella DeVille.
> 
> In the months that she has been exchanging thoughts with people on this thread she has come across consistently as a good person. I think it is a healthy thing for her to have this venue where she can express her frustrations. She is not the only one of us who has had the responsibility for a difficult relative thrust upon her. She can come here, vent, take a deep breath, then go back to care giving.
> 
> I think she has had this responsibility unfairly thrown at her and that her MIL's other children and in law children are taking blatant advantage of her. If she were evil, she would have packed up her MIL, part and parcel and put her on a bus to one of her other children where it is doubtful MIL would have gotten the consideration Nebraska is giving her.


MarilynKnits
Thank you, well said.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Incerpitude said:


> Agreed. Even KfN mentions that she even hates it that her MIL tries too hard to be "sweet". It could be that this woman just breaths and KfN will turn it into some personal offense. Quite frankly KfN has displayed a penchant for martydom in the past. People who "do everything for everybody" tend to do so, so they can play martyr. So it would not be surprising to me if not everything she's accused the MIL of doing is completely true.
> 
> Maybe the woman is as bad as KfN claims, maybe she's not.
> 
> ...


Incerpitude
disturbing are your assumptions and spekulations.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> OK. But then it must be Biography.


Poor Purl
Biography is it since it always has some History in it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I guess I'm just not all that suspicious of KFN. She's trying to deal with a difficult situation and feels she can vent here. Haven't we all vented from time to time?


alcameron
now am venting: some folks here are psycho.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

maysmom said:


> So why aren't you on the phone, or better yet, a plane, to Nebraska? And for sweet goodness' sake, quit changing your usernames. Or come up with better ones.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter frm Nebraska
> please, do not lose any sleep over people who are on a witch hunt. They are wannabe Psychiatrists who did not qualify to study the subject matter.


Thank you, Huck! You've all been standing behind me and I appreciate it! True friends!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Inseptitude said:


> Again, bases on nothing but KfN's stories which quite frankly get more fanciful as time goes on.
> 
> Regardless, if KfN holds such resentments, she should find another home for her.
> 
> ...


Well, I worked in nursing homes for 25+ years. I have seen how demanding residents could get, how nasty and truly evil some were. I have seen family members so mentally beaten down that they were lucky they could tie their shoes, forget about taking Mom out for lunch(and don't be late, dammit.) What you are seeing is a woman doing her damndest to make her MIL happy and getting no thanks for it. If KFN's MIL was getting abused in any way, MIL would be on the phone so quick that Protective Services would be there before she hung up. 
Since you're so knowledgeable about elder abuse, put your compassion and experience to use at your local senior center. They'd be glad to have you. Or, maybe not.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Inseptitude said:


> You're jumping to the conclusion that the MiL isnt being harmed aren't you?
> 
> What I think needs to happen is that KfN needs to think about if she really is doing the right thing by her MIL before she gets so overwhelmed she does something she can never take back.
> 
> ...


This is, unfortunately, true. I don't think Nebraska has reached the point when resentment overtakes the desire to help, but it's important to watch out for it and nip it in the bud.

I doubt that Inseptitude means to say - or even believes - that Nebraska has passed that point. But the more a caregiver has to give, especially to someone she sees as selfish and self-centered, the easier it becomes to let a bit of the resentment show. Once that happens it just goes from bad to worse.

Remember, forewarned is forearmed: if you're aware that something bad can happen, you're in a position to stop it. If you deny that it can happen, it will take you by surprise, a very unpleasant surprise.

(Five cliches in three paragraphs: a personal worst.)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agreed about pipeline. Too much risk.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am but so should everyone be.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Well, I worked in nursing homes for 25+ years. I have seen how demanding residents could get, how nasty and truly evil some were. I have seen family members so mentally beaten down that they were lucky they could tie their shoes, forget about taking Mom out for lunch(and don't be late, dammit.) What you are seeing is a woman doing her damndest to make her MIL happy and getting no thanks for it. If KFN's MIL was getting abused in any way, MIL would be on the phone so quick that Protective Services would be there before she hung up.
> Since you're so knowledgeable about elder abuse, put your compassion and experience to use at your local senior center. They'd be glad to have you. Or, maybe not.


maymom
I don't want her to be near older folks, she does not see reality, she would have the whole staff arrested for being stern. Her fingers point in the wrong direction.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Well, I worked in nursing homes for 25+ years. I have seen how demanding residents could get, how nasty and truly evil some were. I have seen family members so mentally beaten down that they were lucky they could tie their shoes, forget about taking Mom out for lunch(and don't be late, dammit.) What you are seeing is a woman doing her damndest to make her MIL happy and getting no thanks for it. If KFN's MIL was getting abused in any way, MIL would be on the phone so quick that Protective Services would be there before she hung up.
> Since you're so knowledgeable about elder abuse, put your compassion and experience to use at your local senior center. They'd be glad to have you. Or, maybe not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is, unfortunately, true. I don't think Nebraska has reached the point when resentment overtakes the desire to help, but it's important to watch out for it and nip it in the bud.
> 
> I doubt that Inseptitude means to say - or even believes - that Nebraska has passed that point. But the more a caregiver has to give, especially to someone she sees as selfish and self-centered, the easier it becomes to let a bit of the resentment show. Once that happens it just goes from bad to worse.
> 
> ...


I recognize that it can be that way with SOME people, but not me. I have never resorted to any type of abuse and I never will. If I had that in me, I wouldn't be doing any of this. Regardless of the fact that she can drive me crazy, I do love her and I do everything I can for her. I do not show her any resentment which probably assures her that she can keep asking for more. If I resented her so much, I wouldn't have to even answer the phone. I don't even see the fact that I vent about her, as meaning I resent her. I never thought about it as resentment. I sometimes don't like the way she treats me. Is that resentment? If I thought that it were, I would probably just stay away. I find it annoying. That doesn't mean I'm "seething with resentment". I read back over my words. I see no "seething resentment". I was only using words to draw a picture of whom I was dealing with. Some people twisted my words to try and make the picture, of me. Perhaps, they put themselves in my place and saw how they themselves, would feel " seething resentment". I have no "seething" in me. I can stop doing things for this woman any time I want. But if I did, her life would be like Lisa described, lonely and scary. She has enough money to live as she is, for about ten years. She doesn't have the money to pay someone to do things for her. She knows that. She appreciates me doing things for her. But she just can't change who she is. She still only thinks of her needs. I've dealt with her for 38 years. I'm not going to all of a sudden, turn into someone I'm not.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Look, I don't know who you are, and to tell you the truth, I really don't give a flying flip. You are probably on new user name 25 by now. Of course we only know KFN's version, however, what background do you have that you can determine what you think may be in her mind? This woman has gone way beyond what some women would do for a MIL, with patience in the face of being abused by the MIL. Get a grip, KFN will make it through and should be allowed to express her frustrations here, a safe place for her to unload her stress, better here than unloading on an unappreciative MIL. Now go stir the pot elsewhere or participate in the discussion without unwarranted attacks about something which you seem to have very limited knowledge.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maymom
> I don't want her to be near older folks, she does not see reality, she would have the whole staff arrested for being stern. Her fingers point in the wrong direction.


I have removed my post. I do agree with you Huck. Purl, you made yourself clear.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Don't let her worry you. She seems to feel she can make judgments when she doesn't have anything to go by and absolutely no proof. I hope you are doing well. Just ignore it.


I don't see where she (whatever her name du jour is) has made an actual judgment; it seemed to me that she's talking about what she may have seen in other families and is suggesting that it *may* happen in this case, esp. considering how many of us have ganged up on MIL (who, mercifully, doesn't read our messages), describing several ways to be unpleasant to her.

So now we're ganging up on the messenger. And now I understand why the righties say we gang up on people.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> She is the last person I would want to have looking after someone I loved.
> 
> I wonder what pleasure she gets out of coming back like this and attacking someone who has not done anything but vent. She is doesn't know KFN and so can't make that type of judgment. She never stands up for people, she tears people down.
> 
> ...


Someone should revisit that thread about always being kind.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't see where she (whatever her name du jour is) has made an actual judgment; it seemed to me that she's talking about what she may have seen in other families and is suggesting that it *may* happen in this case, esp. considering how many of us have ganged up on MIL (who, mercifully, doesn't read our messages), describing several ways to be unpleasant to her.
> 
> So now we're ganging up on the messenger. And now I understand why the righties say we gang up on people.


I really don't care what the Righties think to be honest. In that case it is like the pot calling the kettle black.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Someone should revisit that thread about always being kind.


Okay- I get the message. If kindness had been the theme of the posts, I wouldn't have posted.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I recognize that it can be that way with SOME people, but not me. I have never resorted to any type of abuse and I never will. If I had that in me, I wouldn't be doing any of this. Regardless of the fact that she can drive me crazy, I do love her and I do everything I can for her. I do not show her any resentment which probably assures her that she can keep asking for more. If I resented her so much, I wouldn't have to even answer the phone. I don't even see the fact that I vent about her, as meaning I resent her. I never thought about it as resentment. I sometimes don't like the way she treats me. Is that resentment? If I thought that it were, I would probably just stay away. I find it annoying. That doesn't mean I'm "seething with resentment". I read back over my words. I see no "seething resentment". I was only using words to draw a picture of whom I was dealing with. Some people twisted my words to try and make the picture, of me. Perhaps, they put themselves in my place and saw how they themselves, would feel " seething resentment". I have no "seething" in me. I can stop doing things for this woman any time I want. But if I did, her life would be like Lisa described, lonely and scary. She has enough money to live as she is, for about ten years. She doesn't have the money to pay someone to do things for her. She knows that. She appreciates me doing things for her. But she just can't change who she is. She still only thinks of her needs. I've dealt with her for 38 years. I'm not going to all of a sudden, turn into someone I'm not.


(Please, let's stop talking about "seething" resentment. I've used enough cliches; I refuse to use that one.) I'm sure you're not abusive, have never been abusive, and yet sometimes things can slip out. In my work as a child therapist I'm mandated to report any signs of abuse, and I've seen how parents can lose it and punish a child - not necessarily physically - for something minor after putting up with major misbehavior for months.

In fact, I can truthfully say that I never hit my child, who's now going on 40. That is, except for the two times I did. Once was for running away from me and crossing the street (he was about 4 or 5), and I gave him one slap on the rear. But the other instance was when I was going through a bad time, depressed, and not able to deal with things. My adorable 2-year-old came to me being cheerful and trying to change my mood, and I kicked out my bare foot and pushed him away. I still feel terrible about that. So I've seen Dr. Jekyll turn into Mr. Hyde right inside myself.

My point is simply that anyone, however unabusive, can be pushed over the age suddenly and not be able to stop doing just one thing that hurts another person. This is not an accusation; it's simply a warning to keep watch in case your resentment boils over(and you'll never convince me you don't resent the woman for whom you were forced to get bakery bread because she wouldn't eat the kind you have at home).

I'm sure the venting, as well as the approval from almost everyone here, helps relieve the pressure on you, so I wouldn't dream of telling you to stop. Just don't ignore the warning signs. Even _you_ can change.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't see where she (whatever her name du jour is) has made an actual judgment; it seemed to me that she's talking about what she may have seen in other families and is suggesting that it *may* happen in this case, esp. considering how many of us have ganged up on MIL (who, mercifully, doesn't read our messages), describing several ways to be unpleasant to her.
> 
> So now we're ganging up on the messenger. And now I understand why the righties say we gang up on people.


She plays games with words. To suggest something and to put it in the minds of others is no better than coming out and making an accusation. The result is the same. I started out with a mild vent and then I fed off of the comments of others. It was wrong but that doesn't mean that someone should suggest that I'm abusive or may become so. Perhaps she sees the the issue in herself. Immediately after she criticized me for complaining about what I have to do, she started in as a martyr herself. I see her comments as no different than my own.

This is typical Lisa! She comes on for a "search and destroy mission". She actually takes pleasure in hurting people and destroying them. I think she's full of seething resentment herself, and needs to share it with others. This isn't the first time she's come after me and it won't be the last. She tried to make me out as a racist and didn't succeed. So now she'll try to convince people I'm an abuser. Who will be in her cross hairs next?

I'm out of time. Mil has a 10:00 appointment to get a perm. I've got to get going. Ttyl!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I really don't care what the Righties think to be honest. In that case it is like the pot calling the kettle black.


So you see how we're like kettles and may possibly boil over?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Okay- I get the message. If kindness had been the theme of the posts, I wouldn't have posted.I Iguess I am in the minority.


Designer1234
I am with you. IF the accuser wants to be productive, she should have taken a different approach. KFN needs compassion and time out - hope her short vacation will renew her.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Okay- I get the message. If kindness had been the theme of the posts, I wouldn't have posted.


So you have forgotten that thread, I have to admit, it seemed pretty phony to me, with all those pledges about responding with kindness, recognizing differences? 
Ah, that was it. Something about Embracing differences with respect? 
As I suspected at that time it was bogus, feel good, meaningless, crap.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She plays games with words. To suggest something and to put it in the minds of others is no better than coming out and making an accusation. The result is the same. I started out with a mild vent and then I fed off of the comments of others. It was wrong but that doesn't mean that someone should suggest that I'm abusive or may become so. Perhaps she sees the the issue in herself. Immediately after she criticized me for complaining about what I have to do, she started in as a martyr herself. I see her comments as no different than my own.
> 
> This is typical Lisa! She comes on for a "search and destroy mission". She actually takes pleasure in hurting people and destroying them. I think she's full of seething resentment herself, and needs to share it with others. This isn't the first time she's come after me and it won't be the last. She tried to make me out as a racist and didn't succeed. So now she'll try to convince people I'm an abuser. Who will be in her cross hairs next?
> 
> I'm out of time. Mil has a 10:00 appointment to get a perm. I've got to get going. Ttyl!


Your first paragraph seems to see things realistically, and there's nothing to argue about there. But your second one says things that none of us has any business saying. There's a good deal of resentment on your part as well as hers. *Where does she out and out call you an abuser?* I may have missed it, but that wasn't the impression I got.

Important last question: Does MIL have the bluish white hair so many of our parents' friends have?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She plays games with words. To suggest something and to put it in the minds of others is no better than coming out and making an accusation. The result is the same. I started out with a mild vent and then I fed off of the comments of others. It was wrong but that doesn't mean that someone should suggest that I'm abusive or may become so. Perhaps she sees the the issue in herself. Immediately after she criticized me for complaining about what I have to do, she started in as a martyr herself. I see her comments as no different than my own.
> 
> This is typical Lisa! She comes on for a "search and destroy mission". She actually takes pleasure in hurting people and destroying them. I think she's full of seething resentment herself, and needs to share it with others. This isn't the first time she's come after me and it won't be the last. She tried to make me out as a racist and didn't succeed. So now she'll try to convince people I'm an abuser. Who will be in her cross hairs next?
> 
> I'm out of time. Mil has a 10:00 appointment to get a perm. I've got to get going. Ttyl!


Knitter from Nebraska
I would put a Baby Monitor in her house and play it back to her periodically to let her see how ill she behaves.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I started out with a mild vent and then I fed off of the comments of others. It was wrong but that doesn't mean that someone should suggest that I'm abusive or may become so. Perhaps she sees the the issue in herself. Immediately after she criticized me for complaining about what I have to do, she started in as a martyr herself. I see her comments as no different than my own.
> 
> This is typical Lisa! She comes on for a "search and destroy mission". She actually takes pleasure in hurting people and destroying them. I think she's full of seething resentment herself, and needs to share it with others. This isn't the first time she's come after me and it won't be the last. She tried to make me out as a racist and didn't succeed. So now she'll try to convince people I'm an abuser. Who will be in her cross hairs next?
> 
> I'm out of time. Mil has a 10:00 appointment to get a perm. I've got to get going. Ttyl!


 :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> So you have forgotten that thread, I have to admit, it seemed pretty phony to me, with all those pledges about responding with kindness, recognizing differences?
> Ah, that was it. Something about Embracing differences with respect?
> As I suspected at that time it was bogus, feel good, meaningless, crap.


Knitanon
you seem to be the one full of anger, you may want to curb it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I would put a Baby Monitor in her house and play it back to her periodically to let her see how ill she behaves?


Here's where the ganging up on MIL happens. If you think that's going to make her change her behavior, you need to read up on psychology. If she's ashamed, she'll pull back and stop talking to Nebraska, which puts her in a very lonely, desperate situation. If it doesn't embarrass her, it will just convince her she's right.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> So you see how we're like kettles and may possibly boil over?


Poor Purl 
it is of value to let off steam.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> you seem to be the one full of anger, you may want to curb it.


Okay, no more Biography. The TV is locked on the Golf Channel.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> it is of value to let off steam.


But sometimes the lid of the pressure cooker flies off and causes a lot of damage. Or at least you end up with pea soup on the ceiling.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Of course, it is. 
It is also valuable to think about and consider input from others. 
What happens much too often is that anyone who doesn't go along with the crowd gets the Tx of the Mean Girls and bullied. 
We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves. 
Just because one thinks that another is coming on too strong or is seeing something that others don't see does not mean that person shouldn't speak up.

Maybe if someone had spoken louder a few years ago that woman who drowned her children in the bathtub would have been helped. 
Maybe if someone had stood up to Adam Landis' mother and pushed her to place him in hospital all of those people would be alive. 
Maybe if that kid who shot so many in Santa Barbara had been told that he needed to be treated differently he would not have wreaked havoc as he had. 
Maybe if the co-workers of that man who shot up the navy base in VA had paid att'n and said something the people he killed would be alive today.

Or we can just not care about anyone enough to be willing to stick our necks out and state our concern because the "nice" understanding people on KP don't like honest statements.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> it is of value to let off steam.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's where the ganging up on MIL happens. If you think that's going to make her change her behavior, you need to read up on psychology. If she's ashamed, she'll pull back and stop talking to Nebraska, which puts her in a very lonely, desperate situation. If it doesn't embarrass her, it will just convince her she's right.


Poor Purl
MIL is ganging up on the Family as I see it. I am quite familiar with psychology. Why does everyone have to tip-toe around the MIL? No doubt, if she was mine I would take care of her but I would also let her know that I expect her to respect me and others. I would keep her busy reading letters I would hand her periodically to explain how I feel being bullied over and over again.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> So you have forgotten that thread, I have to admit, it seemed pretty phony to me, with all those pledges about responding with kindness, recognizing differences?
> Ah, that was it. Something about Embracing differences with respect?
> As I suspected at that time it was bogus, feel good, meaningless, crap.


Thanks for your opinion. Nice to see you are calling things the way you see them too. If she hadn't made it personal I would not have posted. I still think she is over the line. You don't.

I definitely would rather there be kindness but this past month has shown me that it doesn't seem possible in a lot of cases on this thread. I know my own motives and you know yours. - I have not always been kind on this thread-- it is just about impossible. I don't like, however, seeing people imply bad things without any reason other than they like to stir.

It is interesting how much it seems to bother you (embrace our differences - be kind), and I am sorry you don't agree with the idea. It is hard to live up to. It evolved when a group of us stood up to one of the people who happened to be posting on these threads, who was attacking a member on the forum {not a political thread}for no particular reason other than pure enjoyment. She was able to upset everyone and the more she achieved that, the nastier that person became. Interesting that you know so much about it.

More people decided to put it at the bottom of their posts, when a person on the right posted some things which caused a lot of people to disagree.

Since then, quite a lot of people on the main forum have decided to try too. I try, I don't always succeed. You obviously think it is foolish to try. 
==


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Of course, it is.
> It is also valuable to think about and consider input from others.
> What happens much too often is that anyone who doesn't go along with the crowd gets the Tx of the Mean Girls and bullied.
> We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves.
> ...


Knitanon
Maybe if the Polceman would have not assumed something sinister that women would not have been beaten to a pulp at the side of the Highway. 
Maybe if the Police would not have made assumptions the 43 year old Father of 6 would be alive. I take that back, that was hatred towards this Man.
Maybe I am concerned about your spekulations. Actually it is not a maybe, I am concerned.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks for your opinion. Nice to see you are calling things the way you see them too. If she hadn't made it personal I would not have posted. I still think she is over the line. You don't.
> 
> I definitely would rather there be kindness but this past month has shown me that it doesn't seem possible in a lot of cases on this thread. I know my own motives and you know yours. - I have not always been kind on this thread-- it is just about impossible. I don't like, however, seeing people imply bad things without any reason other than they like to stir.
> 
> ...


The problem is, of course, that you see a normal human response as a "bad" thing rather than a normal human response. 
I don't look at life as good and bad, I see it as growth and learning. 
Those labels are useless in my opinion. They teach nothing. 
What I think is foolish is to pretend to know what someone who I have absolutely no history with intends to imply. All I can know is what I infer and respond to that. 
You see, that is the difference. I admit that I am going on my impressions and could be wrong. Others go the other way and KNOW that they have the answers when they don't even know the question.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The problem is, of course, that you see a normal human response as a "bad" thing rather than a normal human response.
> I don't look at life as good and bad, I see it as growth and learning.
> Those labels are useless in my opinion. They teach nothing.
> What I think is foolish is to pretend to know what someone who I have absolutely no history with intends to imply. All I can know is what I infer and respond to that.
> You see, that is the difference. I admit that I am going on my impressions and could be wrong. Others go the other way and KNOW that they have the answers when they don't even know the question.


I agree with you. Maybe I should drop out. I feel as though I'm howling in the wilderness.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, no more Biography. The TV is locked on the Golf Channel.


Poor Purl
Golf? Please, no more Golf. I stopped getting aggrevated by a little white Ball.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes, me too. 
Time for a break.


Poor Purl said:


> I agree with you. Maybe I should drop out. I feel as though I'm howling in the wilderness.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, me too.
> Time for a break.


PURL: I admire you -- I think you contribute a huge amount here. I am the one with the different opinions. Don't leave because of my feelings. Best I keep my feelings to myself.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're a good, caring person. No one knows how they would react given a specific problem until they are presented with it in their life. You've proven how you deal with this one in your life.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I recognize that it can be that way with SOME people, but not me. I have never resorted to any type of abuse and I never will. If I had that in me, I wouldn't be doing any of this. Regardless of the fact that she can drive me crazy, I do love her and I do everything I can for her. I do not show her any resentment which probably assures her that she can keep asking for more. If I resented her so much, I wouldn't have to even answer the phone. I don't even see the fact that I vent about her, as meaning I resent her. I never thought about it as resentment. I sometimes don't like the way she treats me. Is that resentment? If I thought that it were, I would probably just stay away. I find it annoying. That doesn't mean I'm "seething with resentment". I read back over my words. I see no "seething resentment". I was only using words to draw a picture of whom I was dealing with. Some people twisted my words to try and make the picture, of me. Perhaps, they put themselves in my place and saw how they themselves, would feel " seething resentment". I have no "seething" in me. I can stop doing things for this woman any time I want. But if I did, her life would be like Lisa described, lonely and scary. She has enough money to live as she is, for about ten years. She doesn't have the money to pay someone to do things for her. She knows that. She appreciates me doing things for her. But she just can't change who she is. She still only thinks of her needs. I've dealt with her for 38 years. I'm not going to all of a sudden, turn into someone I'm not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put.



Poor Purl said:


> Here's where the ganging up on MIL happens. If you think that's going to make her change her behavior, you need to read up on psychology. If she's ashamed, she'll pull back and stop talking to Nebraska, which puts her in a very lonely, desperate situation. If it doesn't embarrass her, it will just convince her she's right.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But sometimes the lid of the pressure cooker flies off and causes a lot of damage. Or at least you end up with pea soup on the ceiling.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. We all need to think about this.



Knitanon said:


> Of course, it is.
> It is also valuable to think about and consider input from others.
> What happens much too often is that anyone who doesn't go along with the crowd gets the Tx of the Mean Girls and bullied.
> We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we're discussing different things. Stand up for yourself. Yes indeed. Understand others. Also a good approach. Put em together and you've got a winner. IMHO



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> MIL is ganging up on the Family as I see it. I am quite familiar with psychology. Why does everyone have to tip-toe around the MIL? No doubt, if she was mine I would take care of her but I would also let her know that I expect her to respect me and others. I would keep her busy reading letters I would hand her periodically to explain how I feel being bullied over and over again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think trying counts.



Designer1234 said:


> Thanks for your opinion. Nice to see you are calling things the way you see them too. If she hadn't made it personal I would not have posted. I still think she is over the line. You don't.
> 
> I definitely would rather there be kindness but this past month has shown me that it doesn't seem possible in a lot of cases on this thread. I know my own motives and you know yours. - I have not always been kind on this thread-- it is just about impossible. I don't like, however, seeing people imply bad things without any reason other than they like to stir.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> PURL: I admire you -- I think you contribute a huge amount here. I am the one with the different opinions. Don't leave because of my feelings. Best I keep my feelings to myself.


I'm still here, though I may stop posting for a while because there's no point. Designer, your feelings have nothing to do with my tiredness of the things are going.

Now I'm taking a break to listen to Danny Kaye performing Tubby the Tuba.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think trying counts.


thanks Dame. I agree.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm still here, though I may stop posting for a while because there's no point. Designer, your feelings have nothing to do with my tiredness of the things are going.
> 
> Now I'm taking a break to listen to Danny Kaye performing Tubby the Tuba.


Sounds like FUN.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The problem is, of course, that you see a normal human response as a "bad" thing rather than a normal human response.
> I don't look at life as good and bad, I see it as growth and learning.
> Those labels are useless in my opinion. They teach nothing.
> What I think is foolish is to pretend to know what someone who I have absolutely no history with intends to imply. All I can know is what I infer and respond to that.
> You see, that is the difference. I admit that I am going on my impressions and could be wrong. Others go the other way and KNOW that they have the answers when they don't even know the question.


It must be nice to be so sure that you have all the answers. I don't pretend to. I still think it is unnecessary to treat others with arrogance, and unkindness. You might be going on your impression, but if you attack her or imply that she is doing something wrong, when you don't know that, then you are causing her a great deal of hurt if you are wrong. Why not believe that people are good, rather than not. Why not err on the side of positive thoughts than negative until you see different.

You ridicule good things to prove you are right. eg.
the slogan under mine and many more of the KP members. I am the first to admit that I don't always live up to it. But, it is a reminder and that is one of the reasons this morning that I opened up about my feelings about the nasty people on this side of the spectrum. we will never be on the same page, which is fine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not perfect...yet.



Designer1234 said:


> thanks Dame. I agree.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm not perfect...yet.


You try hard and are getting pretty darned close from what i see here. You react rather than attack. Big thing. You don't deliberately look for negatives. You do something I find hard to do - you don't open up too much. I admire that. I guess at this stage of my life I likely won't change. You are one of the main reasons I stay. Not the only one because there are a lot of people I really admire and applaud -

One or two not so much. those "here and then gone"
Heading out to buy groceries and have a coffee and donute at Tim Hortons. They are good and need a sugar fix I guess.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> Maybe if the Polceman would have not assumed something sinister that women would not have been beaten to a pulp at the side of the Highway.
> Maybe if the Police would not have made assumptions the 43 year old Father of 6 would be alive. I take that back, that was hatred towards this Man.
> Maybe I am concerned about your spekulations. Actually it is not a maybe, I am concerned.


 :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


damemary
Spinach it was, raining down. The mistake of a young Bride.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm still here, though I may stop posting for a while because there's no point. Designer, your feelings have nothing to do with my tiredness of the things are going.
> 
> Now I'm taking a break to listen to Danny Kaye performing Tubby the Tuba.


Tubby the Tuba was a big favorite of ours when we were babies. Would love to hear it again. Where did you find it? But I think Peter Lind Hayes did the version I remember.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Feeding the Birds Apples. Now they are starting an argument as to who's on first. Different Speci, same behavior.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The problem is, of course, that you see a normal human response as a "bad" thing rather than a normal human response.
> I don't look at life as good and bad, I see it as growth and learning.
> Those labels are useless in my opinion. They teach nothing.
> What I think is foolish is to pretend to know what someone who I have absolutely no history with intends to imply. All I can know is what I infer and respond to that.
> You see, that is the difference. I admit that I am going on my impressions and could be wrong. Others go the other way and KNOW that they have the answers when they don't even know the question.


You misunderstood what I was trying to say. I believe her until I know different. She has not given me any reason to be concerned about this. I take people at their face value until they are proven to be guilty of something..

The face value of some of the people on both sides who take on everyone, on both sides, is obvious to me. - usually because they attack and love to stir.

My husband is not as trusting as I , I would rather act on the side of positive feelings than negative. His life experiences before he was married, made him look at life differently than I do.

Actually our experiences were much the same. His reaction is much different than mine . He would rather be on guard for the worst, I would rather believe the best until I am proven wrong. Between the two of us we find middle ground (hopefully). However, I will say that he admits I am right more often than he is. He is less inclined to be negative as he gets older and he has said it is because I have shown him that I am correct to believe the best about people rather than look for problems that are not there.

We are both strong willed and it has been an interesting journey in many ways. I don't have a problem of admitting I might be wrong usually. But have been accused of being wishy washy and easily influenced. However, it is not difficult to admit you are wrong if you are wrong, in my opinion. I have been wrong on these threads more than once. I have felt I have been right more often though. Who really knows?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tubby the Tuba was a big favorite of ours when we were babies. Would love to hear it again. Where did you find it? But I think Peter Lind Hayes did the version I remember.


Danny Kaye was the one I remember. Now it is playing in my head. It likely will all day! or even all day and night.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Danny Kaye was the one I remember. Now it is playing in my head. It likely will all day! or even all day and night.


You may be interested in the website where it was being played. It's called The Jonathan Channel, for Jonathan Schwartz who was once a DJ in New York and now devotes his time to playing "the American songbook," that is, the music of the 30's, 40's and 50's, performed by the original performers or by new ones who are very good.

http://www.wnyc.org/radio/#/streams/jonathan-channel

Right now he's playing a sketch by Bob & Ray.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Danny Kaye was the one I remember. Now it is playing in my head. It likely will all day! or even all day and night.


Here, let it play on your speakers:

http://www.last.fm/music/Danny+Kaye/_/Tubby+the+Tuba

Wait, here's the original film:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Here, let it play on your speakers:
> 
> http://www.last.fm/music/Danny+Kaye/_/Tubby+the+Tuba
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Quote: Poor Purl:
Important last question: Does MIL have the bluish white hair so many of our parents' friends have?[/quote]

Nope! Salt and pepper.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > Important last question: Does MIL have the bluish white hair so many of our parents' friends have?
> ...


So she's not as vain as I expected.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So she's not as vain as I expected.


Or she has exquisite salt and pepper as I do. :wink:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I will say I'm sorry for taking part in allowing this to build.to the fever pitch it did.
> 
> ...


Dear JoniLovesChachi, as I've already said, what you've done is a favor to Nebraska, not an accusation. It's a pity most don't see it that way.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Dear JoniLovesChachi, as I've already said, what you've done is a favor to Nebraska, not an accusation. It's a pity most don't see it that way.


Perhaps there would have been a better way to say it.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Well now I know from where you're coming. Thanks for giving me that illuminating bit of information. You seem to have some resentments towards the elderly on your own.
> 
> Also, you couldn't have read my posts fully or you wouldnt have made your last comment.
> 
> ...


joni, keep your attentions to chachi since you obviously have no intentions of doing anything but disparaging people. I still get cards, letters, and photos from of people (and their families) that I cared for, so I doubt that I displayed any resentment towards them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I would like to make something perfectly clear, I stand by everything I said including that some made horrific assumptions and spekulatons and nothing that KFN wrote warrants such. And just because some who resent having to take care of others may have periodic anger spurts towards those who depend on them, that does not mean that everybody-else, goes through the same emotions. KFN does not need a lecture, she needs compassion and some rest. Isn't it very telling that the MIL is displaying pictures of everyone but the ones who take care of her? She is shouting: "see whom I like and you are not one of them, you need to do better." She has a method to her behavior and since most likely her husband always catered to her hand and foot just to have peace, she uses the same methods with others now, to get her way.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Dear JoniLovesChachi, as I've already said, what you've done is a favor to Nebraska, not an accusation. It's a pity most don't see it that way.


It's a pity, too, Purl, that (mostly)women who are dealing with an elderly relative can't vent here. It's also a pity that joni's "concerns" weren't worded more tactfully, if that was indeed her intention.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Dear JoniLovesChachi, as I've already said, what you've done is a favor to Nebraska, not an accusation. It's a pity most don't see it that way.


Poor Purl
I am one who does not. Huck


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I will say I'm sorry for taking part in allowing this to build.to the fever pitch it did.
> 
> ...


JoniLoves Cachi
You are right, I am defending her and shall do so until I feel that things do not seem right. Believe me, I will sniff it. Lending support to someone is something I regularly do and do not see that as favors. And I assure you, if I come upon someone abusive, even if it is a guy 7 foot tall and looking like a Wrestler, I get involved and have no fear to do whatever necessary to end the abuse. My record is stellar. Huck


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> You're the one that's into disparaging MIL's and the elderly.


Sorry to see that your reading comprehension is off. Maybe you're here from D & P ?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> My original post was perfectly "tactful". You just were so intent on supporting the seething resentment towards an elderly person you felt defensive.


You're the one bringing "seething" here. Whatever it is that's making you boil over, hope it's resolved soon--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Or perhaps you're auditioning to be as hateful towards the vulnerable as they are. Guess what? You win.


 G'Night!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Sorry sweetie. As far as I can see you've supported potential abuse, and your nose is failing you.


JoniLovesCachi
My Sniffer works well and your Sweetie I definitely am not. Now you accuse me of supporting abuse? Are you Schizo? Something is not ticking right in your attic.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> You're the one that lacks "seething" towards the vulnerable elderly.
> 
> Your 'stories" about the mean, rotten ugly elderly at the nursing home you worked at told us all we need to know about your attitude.


JoniLovesCachi
go get help, your pot is boiling over with all sorts of hatred.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Yes, I think you lack sufficient concern, I do.


JoniLovesChachi
now there is another assumption. You are full of those. If you are not in treatment, you need to seek it. You are ready to erupt and wonder why. Is it because of all the anger you carry in you that you assume others feel the same? We don't.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Not nearly as much as KfN's hatred towards her MIL which you seem to think is perfectly appropriate based on nothing but KfN's histrionics.


Weren't you leaving? Or are you having too much fun now?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> No, that's what you were doing, and yet you're back. Or are you having too much fun defending the horrible treatment of the elderly.


No, I never said I was leaving. I think that maybe you think you didn't get enough appreciation for the time and care you gave your relatives. Or maybe you didn't give them the time and care you should have, and now you have the guilts. What is it?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Says the person who worked at a nursing home and called the elderly people there evil.
> 
> Justifying your hatred for the elderly through KfN is pretty damn sick.


Roll away, and get off the cross, the wood is needed elsewhere.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> I think someone who defends the mistreatment of the elderly are MUCH more deserving of "treatment".
> 
> It's KfN that's ready to erupt, and all you do is egg her on to mistreat her MIL ... now THAT is truly sick.


JLC
keep on posting, your venting may release some of your frustrations. Yikes, you are troubled.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Yes, I think you lack sufficient concern, I do.


JLC
do you really think I care what you think? Not a chance. Go in the rubber room and bounce for a while, it may do you some good.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

For Pete's sake, would you people stop feeding fuel to JoniLovesChachi (what number name are we on now?) Just ignore her she is getting her jollies by firing you people up.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> I think someone who defends the mistreatment of the elderly are MUCH more deserving of "treatment".
> 
> It's KfN that's ready to erupt, and all you do is egg her on to mistreat her MIL ... now THAT is truly sick.


JLC
".....egg her on to mistreat her MIL"? Say what? Got into the hard stuff that makes you hallucinate? Hearing voices and seeing Monsters and you are attaching the Monsters to some of us? So that is it. Now I get the picture.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> No, you're too busy telling people to record their elderly MIL's and take retaliation against them to care about what those who sympathize with a widowed old woman would think. That's VERY clear.


JLC
you bet I would monitor her for MANY reasons and one is that in case some XXXXXXX like you reports abuse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> HB,
> 
> Yes, egg her on to mistreat her. Evidently you have no clue as to your own behavior or you think it's perfectly OK to be telling KfN to be recording her MIL and use the recordings to play back to her to humiliate her. What kind of person would do that? Seriously.
> 
> Or do you really not know how wrong that is?


JLC
you are pathetic. It is a hell of a lot nicer to show her how she acts than to tell her, which she would not believe and dispute from here to eternity. Who is doing the humiliating? It isn't KFN. I know, a mirror can show a lot of flaws and it may do you good, to install one in your home.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Ohhhh, OK. So is that it, you were reported for abuse and you think it was unjustified?


JLC
now I know for sure that you are demented. At least you are doing the verification yourself.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> For Pete's sake, would you people stop feeding fuel to JoniLovesChachi (what number name are we on now?) Just ignore her she is getting her jollies by firing you people up.


Cindy S
exposing her may open some other's eyes. She started as Miss goody two shoes and rallied support for her stance against some of us and found some Takers. Now perhaps she will be seen in a different light.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

JoniLovesChachi said:


> Wow, so you really don't know how wrong that is... to treat an elderly person like she's little more than an animal in a zoo to be monitored.
> 
> Wow.
> 
> ...


JLC
get some rest, you are crumbling.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Cindy S
> exposing her may open some other's eyes. She started as Miss goody two shoes and rallied support for her stance against some of us and found some Takers. Now perhaps she will be seen in a different light.


Huck, maybe, but her good times come from baiting all of you and as long as you are taking the bait, she is winning the game. She has about as much knowledge of elder abuse as she does about the number of fleas on her neighbors dog. Ignore her and maybe she will morph into yet another user name or personality.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Huck, maybe, but her good times come from baiting all of you and as long as you are taking the bait, she is winning the game. She has about as much knowledge of elder abuse as she does about the number of fleas on her neighbors dog. Ignore her and maybe she will morph into yet another user name or personality.


Cindy S
Good Night. Huck


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Shirley. You made my day.



Designer1234 said:


> You try hard and are getting pretty darned close from what i see here. You react rather than attack. Big thing. You don't deliberately look for negatives. You do something I find hard to do - you don't open up too much. I admire that. I guess at this stage of my life I likely won't change. You are one of the main reasons I stay. Not the only one because there are a lot of people I really admire and applaud -
> 
> One or two not so much. those "here and then gone"
> Heading out to buy groceries and have a coffee and donute at Tim Hortons. They are good and need a sugar fix I guess.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Something to consider. That's all.



Poor Purl said:


> Dear JoniLovesChachi, as I've already said, what you've done is a favor to Nebraska, not an accusation. It's a pity most don't see it that way.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> I would like to make something perfectly clear, I stand by everything I said including that some made horrific assumptions and spekulatons and nothing that KFN wrote warrants such. And just because some who resent having to take care of others may have periodic anger spurts towards those who depend on them, that does not mean that everybody-else, goes through the same emotions. KFN does not need a lecture, she needs compassion and some rest. Isn't it very telling that the MIL is displaying pictures of everyone but the ones who take care of her? She is shouting: "see whom I like and you are not one of them, you need to do better." She has a method to her behavior and since most likely her husband always catered to her hand and foot just to have peace, she uses the same methods with others now, to get her way.


hear hear!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I changed my mind - removed my post - Cindy is correct.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> For Pete's sake, would you people stop feeding fuel to JoniLovesChachi (what number name are we on now?) Just ignore her she is getting her jollies by firing you people up.


Good point, Cindy-thanks!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Good point, Cindy-thanks!


 Good point. I am going to take your advice. Thanks Cindy.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

maysmom said:


> No, I never said I was leaving. I think that maybe you think you didn't get enough appreciation for the time and care you gave your relatives. Or maybe you didn't give them the time and care you should have, and now you have the guilts. What is it?


G'Night!
Most of us think that when someone says that it means they are going. 
Or maybe it just means that their cruelty button has been pushed and they are off and running. 
I thank God you didn't work in the nursing home where my mother was living.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Sorry to see that your reading comprehension is off. Maybe you're here from D & P ?


Looks as if JoniLovesChachi's postings were removed from KP. I went to the user list to find the message in question dumping on Nebraska was there so I could respond and found that she is listed as having posted 0. Hmmm.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Looks as if JoniLovesChachi's postings were removed from KP. I went to the user list to find the message in question dumping on Nebraska was there so I could respond and found that she is listed as having posted 0. Hmmm.


Not to worry, she will be back under a new name today probably, got to be name #26 by now. Admin needs to learn how to ban by IP address, not just the name on the site.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Looks as if JoniLovesChachi's postings were removed from KP. I went to the user list to find the message in question dumping on Nebraska was there so I could respond and found that she is listed as having posted 0. Hmmm.


I just checked Incerpitude too - one and the same, I believe both removed. Just sent me to WOW page one in both cases.

Good.

I'm here again. I just checked huluminus too -- same thing.

She was having fun I guess.

I searched all three and got page one and can find no posts.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hello. Had a pleasant night and an exiting day ahead. Wish you a swell day as well. Huck.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Not to worry, she will be back under a new name today probably, got to be name #26 by now. Admin needs to learn how to ban by IP address, not just the name on the site.


Just to keep y'all in the same century, the official count is now over 100!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> More than 100. but Gerslay beat me to it. Sometimes 2 in one day. Watch the spelling, she may just change one letter and try to be a different person I doubt very much she was a blonde, mousy I can believe..


Haven't you seen her in photos, Joey? I have. Not going to say any more about her, she gets no more of my attention. She is a die-hard, crackpot Lib, enough said.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> I would like to make something perfectly clear, I stand by everything I said including that some made horrific assumptions and spekulatons and nothing that KFN wrote warrants such. And just because some who resent having to take care of others may have periodic anger spurts towards those who depend on them, that does not mean that everybody-else, goes through the same emotions. KFN does not need a lecture, she needs compassion and some rest. Isn't it very telling that the MIL is displaying pictures of everyone but the ones who take care of her? She is shouting: "see whom I like and you are not one of them, you need to do better." She has a method to her behavior and since most likely her husband always catered to her hand and foot just to have peace, she uses the same methods with others now, to get her way.


Wait a minute. Originally the pictures she displayed were only of relatives who had died. There were no pictures of anyone living, not grandchildren, in-laws, or the people caring for her. Are you trying to make her worse than she is?

And what is the point of spelling "speculation" with a K? When I first saw it, I thought typo, but now I see you do it all the time? It looks insulting, though it may just be that you're not a good speller,


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> It's a pity, too, Purl, that (mostly)women who are dealing with an elderly relative can't vent here. It's also a pity that joni's "concerns" weren't worded more tactfully, if that was indeed her intention.


I was able to see them for what they were, and I'm hardly the most empathic person here. Yes, anyone who needs to vent about such a thing should do that here. But it's a real danger that venting will give way to snide remarks to MIL, and the fact that KFN hasn't done it before doesn't mean there won't be a first time.

You're right that Joni could have expressed it differently, but since when do we criticize people not for what they say but the way they say it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Perhaps there would have been a better way to say it.


Perhaps, but we're not all equally (adverb) eloquent.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Just to keep y'all in the same century, the official count is now over 100!


thanks Gerslay, I would not be surprised!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I am one who does not. Huck


You've made that very clear. You've even suggested nasty little things to do to a very vulnerable old woman. I've seen you be much nicer to KPG than to Nebraska's mother-in-law.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Huck, maybe, but her good times come from baiting all of you and as long as you are taking the bait, she is winning the game. She has about as much knowledge of elder abuse as she does about the number of fleas on her neighbors dog. Ignore her and maybe she will morph into yet another user name or personality.


Geez, Cindy. She actually has a lot of knowledge about what could (could, not will) happen to a vulnerable, dependent, lonely old woman who has become the butt of jokes. If you think elder abuse happens only to mean old biddies, I'd suggest you count the dog's fleas.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Just doin' my duty as I see it...I am the holder of the little red plastic clicker counter!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Just doin' my duty as I see it...I am the holder of the little red plastic clicker counter!


Very cute. Does this show the amount being donated to Planned Parenthood in Joey's name?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Very cute. Does this show the amount being donated to Planned Parenthood in Joey's name?


Love my Purlee. Cannot compete with her for the ultimate ha ha putdown.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I was able to see them for what they were, and I'm hardly the most empathic person here. Yes, anyone who needs to vent about such a thing should do that here. But it's a real danger that venting will give way to snide remarks to MIL, and the fact that KFN hasn't done it before doesn't mean there won't be a first time.
> 
> You're right that Joni could have expressed it differently, but since when do we criticize people not for what they say but the way they say it?


Surely you are not serious! Y'all not only criticize people for what they say and how they say it but also how they spell it!



Poor Purl said:


> And what is the point of spelling "speculation" with a K? When I first saw it, I thought typo, but now I see you do it all the time? It looks insulting, though it may just be that you're not a good speller,


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Gers,

How are you? Have not seen you and your buddies for awhile. What's up?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> G'Night!
> Most of us think that when someone says that it means they are going.
> Or maybe it just means that their cruelty button has been pushed and they are off and running.
> I thank God you didn't work in the nursing home where my mother was living.


Here it means, "Good Night." As in "see ya tomorrow!"


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Gers,
> 
> How are you? Have not seen you and your buddies for awhile. What's up?


I are good! You? Nuttin much! You?

:wink:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I are good! You? Nuttin much! You?
> 
> :wink:


I am mostly okay. Worried about Israel and I appreciate your friends taking the time to show support and a willingness to discuss it. Are you knitting?


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Cindy S said:


> Not to worry, she will be back under a new name today probably, got to be name #26 by now. Admin needs to learn how to ban by IP address, not just the name on the site.


If the woman-of-many-names lives in an urban area with access to free wifi at many different coffee shops, cafes, etc. that would allow her to have many different IP addresses...I think...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Mountain Stitches said:


> If the woman-of-many-names lives in an urban area with access to free wifi at many different coffee shops, cafes, etc. that would allow her to have many different IP addresses...I think...


But this website does not strike me as being very current.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> More than 100. but Gerslay beat me to it. Sometimes 2 in one day. Watch the spelling, she may just change one letter and try to be a different person I doubt very much she was a blonde, mousy I can believe..


You have to warn me, joey. My poor keyboard and diet Pepsi...


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I was able to see them for what they were, and I'm hardly the most empathic person here. Yes, anyone who needs to vent about such a thing should do that here. But it's a real danger that venting will give way to snide remarks to MIL, and the fact that KFN hasn't done it before doesn't mean there won't be a first time.
> 
> You're right that Joni could have expressed it differently, but since when do we criticize people not for what they say but the way they say it?


Purl, people get criticized here for any and no particular reason.
If one wants one's advice to be heeded, the tone in which it is given makes a huge difference.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Just doin' my duty as I see it...I am the holder of the little red plastic clicker counter!


My mother had one of those.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> If the woman-of-many-names lives in an urban area with access to free wifi at many different coffee shops, cafes, etc. that would allow her to have many different IP addresses...I think...


You are probably right!


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am mostly okay. Worried about Israel and I appreciate your friends taking the time to show support and a willingness to discuss it. Are you knitting?


I'm worried about Israel too. I hope she doesn't bend to the world's opinion and that she continues to respond to Hamas. I also think she should give Gaza 90 days warning to get out and then level the place!

Not knitting. You?


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.

I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2014/jul/23/un-high-commissioner-navi-pillay-war-crimes-israel

And this is a concern.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Purl, people get criticized here for any and no particular reason.
> If one wants one's advice to be heeded, the tone in which it is given makes a huge difference.


I agree Maysmom. It was her way of expressing herself that got my back up. Her tone and words were negative and accusatory in my opinion. She is never positive always looks for something to attack about. I don't think she accomplishes much except to cause irritation. The whole business was hurtful to more than one person, and she knew it.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The land has always belonged to Israel The so called Palestinians are the intruders. They are actually Arabs. Great Britain gave them the name of Palestine after WWII


And you read this link and educate yourself.

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5902177/9-questions-about-the-israel-palestine-conflict-you-were-too


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree Maysmom. It was her way of expressing herself that got my back up. Her tone and words were negative and accusatory in my opinion. She is never positive always looks for something to attack about. I don't think she accomplishes much except to cause irritation. The whole business was hurtful to more than one person, and she knew it.


S/he may be an abrasive personality, but I think she's committed to her beliefs, appears to be smart and well-read, and is fearless. Plus, I think she votes right. I have to admit that I'm sure I missed many of her posts.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> S/he may be an abrasive personality, but I think she's committed to her beliefs, appears to be smart and well-read, and is fearless. Plus, I think she votes right. I have to admit that I'm sure I missed many of her posts.


You have been around here much more than I have Al, and I respect your opinion. However, I have never felt that she needed to be so 'abrasive' which is ongoing. It is quite possible that there are two or three people, I certainly don't know.

I am sure she is committed to her beliefs - I also think you are and Dame, and Purl and SQM and the rest of us. I know we all react and feel differently. I have felt this for a long long time. It could be that I am overstepping but I have done that before for what I believe, and likely will again. You are a friend to me and I know you know her better than I do. I used to know her quite well, but not recently, mainly because I don't agree with her methods. I respect and like Purl too, and your opinions are important, I also respect Maysmom and don't believe she deserves the attack she received either. I am tired, and tomorrow dh has another colonoscopy which is causing me some worry, so best I go and read as I am feeling very down right now and am not good company. Talk to you later. I applaud you standing up for a friend, even though I can't agree with the friend.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

A good synopsis. Thank you. Such a waste of life!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You have been around here much more than I have Al, and I respect your opinion. However, I have never felt that she needed to be so 'abrasive' which is ongoing. It is quite possible that there are two or three people, I certainly don't know.
> 
> I am sure she is committed to her beliefs - I also think you are and Dame, and Purl and SQM and the rest of us. I know we all react and feel differently. I have felt this for a long long time. It could be that I am overstepping but I have done that before for what I believe, and likely will again. You are a friend to me and I know you know her better than I do. I used to know her quite well, but not recently, mainly because I don't agree with her methods. I respect and like Purl too, and your opinions are important, I also respect Maysmom and don't beleive she deserves the attack she received either.


No, Shirley, I really don't know who she is, and I haven't read all her posts. I don't even know if it's one person or a few.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> No, Shirley, I really don't know who she is, and I haven't read all her posts. I don't even know if it's one person or a few.


Oh, I am sorry Al. I know you don't know one of them, and I am sorry if I thought you knew others (if there are others).

Just to be clear. I am well aware that all of you are strong in your beliefs and are ready and willing to fight for what you believe in. I applaud you all for standing up and being counted. I am not an American, and therefore deliberately don't get involved in the political stuff as I don't feel comfortable or know enough about the people, the States, your system etc. I wouldn't appreciate someone from another country to come and criticize mine. I do strongly believe in a lot of things that are felt by all of you. Eve and I gain a lot by learning what you feel and we have been made to feel welcome. You are a friend and always will be.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh, I am sorry Al. I know you don't know one of them, and I am sorry if I thought you knew others (if there are others).
> 
> Just to be clear. I am well aware that all of you are strong in your beliefs and are ready and willing to fight for what you believe in. I applaud you all for standing up and being counted. I am not an American, and therefore deliberately don't get involved in the political stuff as I don't feel comfortable or know enough about the people, the States, your system etc. I wouldn't appreciate someone from another country to come and criticize mine. I do strongly believe in a lot of things that are felt by all of you. Eve and I gain a lot by learning what you feel and we have been made to feel welcome.


You don't need to apologize, Shirley. And, as far as I'm concerned, you and Eve always add something of interest to the discussions.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The "Promised Land" was given to Israel when they followed Moses out of Egypt. They have been driven from their land many times. But they have always returned and* it is their land.* No mere human can change it.


Since you obviously did not read the link, here is some information, in part from it:

The conflict has been going on since the early 1900s, when the mostly-Arab, mostly-Muslim region was part of the Ottoman Empire and, starting in 1917, a "mandate" run by the British Empire. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were moving into the area, as part of a movement called Zionism among mostly European Jews to escape persecution and establish their own state in their ancestral homeland. (Later, large numbers of Middle Eastern Jews also moved to Israel, either to escape anti-Semitic violence or because they were forcibly expelled.)

Communal violence between Jews and Arabs in British Palestine began spiraling out of control. In 1947, the United Nations approved a plan to divide British Palestine into two mostly independent countries, one for Jews called Israel and one for Arabs called Palestine. Jerusalem, holy city for Jews and Muslims, was to be a special international zone.

The plan was never implemented. Arab leaders in the region saw it as European colonial theft and, in 1948, invaded to keep Palestine unified. The Israeli forces won the 1948 war, but they pushed well beyond the UN-designated borders to claim land that was to have been part of Palestine, including the western half of Jerusalem. They also uprooted and expelled entire Palestinian communities, creating about 700,000 refugees, whose descendants now number 7 million and are still considered refugees.

The 1948 war ended with Israel roughly controlling the territory that you will see marked on today's maps as "Israel"; everything except for the West Bank and Gaza, which is where most Palestinian fled to (many also ended up in refugee camps in neighboring countries) and are today considered the Palestinian territories. The borders between Israel and Palestine have been disputed and fought over ever since. So has the status of those Palestinian refugees and the status of Jerusalem.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wait a minute. Originally the pictures she displayed were only of relatives who had died. There were no pictures of anyone living, not grandchildren, in-laws, or the people caring for her. Are you trying to make her worse than she is?
> 
> And what is the point of spelling "speculation" with a K? When I first saw it, I thought typo, but now I see you do it all the time? It looks insulting, though it may just be that you're not a good speller,


Poor Purl
never professed to be perfect. Doing things well, yes, perfekt not. What crawled up your skirt all of a sudden? As to the spelling, I guess my involvement with Yiddish speaking people effects my spelling. I enjoy that language. Sorry, it bothers you so much. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.
> 
> I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


sumpleby
if only the politicians would get out of the way and let the people decide their fate, it all could be settled to everyone's best interest. A large %age of Palestinians and Israelis like each other and they could work things out. Wrong Leaders in both countries right now.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Bless my soul, Gerslay honey, I never dreamed you read messages written by li'l ol' me. I do criticize misspellings, but only when I think they've been made on purpose. Or when the writer claims to be a wordsmith.

But that was a fair cop, Gerslay. You got me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Liberal Court Dismisses Massive Fraud Lawsuit Against Planned Parenthood
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/23/14 10:40 AM
> 
> ...


Or maybe the fraud was committed by Steven Ertelt of LifeNews. I've never trusted him before; why start now?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.
> 
> I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


New York City is 305 square miles and has a population of 8 million plus, giving it twice the density of Gaza. Do you think we ought to send rockets into New Jersey to get them to hand over Newark and Elizabeth?

Hamas showed what they wanted the minute they were given Gaza to run. Israel had built greenhouses there, which the Palestinians could have used to get some income; instead, Hamas destroyed them. They were far more interested in getting hold of rockets to shoot at Israel and totally uninterested in providing their people with promised social services.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> New York City is 305 square miles and has a population of 8 million plus, giving it twice the density of Gaza. Do you think we ought to send rockets into New Jersey to get them to hand over Newark and Elizabeth?
> 
> Hamas showed what they wanted the minute they were given Gaza to run. Israel had built greenhouses there, which the Palestinians could have used to get some income; instead, Hamas destroyed them. They were far more interested in getting hold of rockets to shoot at Israel and totally uninterested in providing their people with promised social services.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> S/he may be an abrasive personality, but I think she's committed to her beliefs, appears to be smart and well-read, and is fearless. Plus, I think she votes right. I have to admit that I'm sure I missed many of her posts.


You have a very clear picture of her.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Not to worry, she will be back under a new name today probably, got to be name #26 by now. Admin needs to learn how to ban by IP address, not just the name on the site.


What about different names bothers you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> never professed to be perfect. Doing things well, yes, perfekt not. What crawled up your skirt all of a sudden? As to the spelling, I guess my involvement with Yiddish speaking people effects my spelling. I enjoy that language. Sorry, it bothers you so much. Huck


It doesn't really bother me all that much, Huck. It just looks Russian, or like the hippies who always spelled America as Amerika. I only wondered whether there was a purpose.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> sumpleby
> if only the politicians would get out of the way and let the people decide their fate, it all could be settled to everyone's best interest. A large %age of Palestinians and Israelis like each other and they could work things out. Wrong Leaders in both countries right now.


Amen to that, sister. Or at least I hope you're right.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Is this your fourth or fifth name?


When are you going to come up with something new?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Is this your fourth or fifth name?


You just reminded me of the not-very-funny thing we'd do when my friends in grad school went out to lunch together. The check would come, and would be passed around the table, with each person saying "You're the mathematician; you figure it out."

Okay, Joey, you're the tax-preparer; you figure it out.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Well boo hoo! *The land belongs to Israel period. * No matter what recent history is, the land still belongs to Israel. The so-called Palestinians are fortunate that Israel has allowed them to live where they are now.


Grow up Joey. Yes, there is the State of Israel now and territories occupied by the Palestinians. You made the sweeping statement in a post about 'the promised land' etc., which is a biblical concept only. Not everyone agrees to your way of thinking and don't be so bullish.

Your dogma is irritating.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Grow up Joey. Yes, there is the State of Israel now and territories occupied by the Palestinians. You made the sweeping statement in a post about 'the promised land' etc., which is a biblical concept only. Not everyone agrees to your way of thinking and don't be so bullish.
> 
> Your dogma is irritating.


Your karma could run over her dogma.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> What about different names bothers you?


How many do you think it is necessary to have to post on KP? When someone is suspended they can come back under a new name, or in the case of this person, when all her posts get deleted, she just signs in on another name. Either you are who you are or you aren't. Simple.

BTW, half way down the page from you on June 25

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-269059-42.html#5588633


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Your karma could run over her dogma.


What do you mean?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.
> 
> I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


There are some who may bash you, I won't be one. It is one hell of a mess. 
A major problem as far as I can tell is that the Palestinian people support Hamas. 
I can only liken that here to the "militia" folk who support someone like Cliven Bundy and the additional armed confrontations that has encouraged in 4(?) other states. 
Since governments are charged with protecting citizens what else can the Israeli gov't do but bomb the hell out the strongholds?

The Palestinians are the underdog, that pulls at American heartstrings especially when we hear of children being killed. 
So the general population is dependent on Hamas for part of the social structure, that makes them supportable in people's eyes. I bet that there are also those who might rat them out but are afraid to.

There has been enough independent verification from NGOs that there are weapons stored by Hamas and tunnels built by Hamas to support Israel's need to fire into such a small space.

All I really know is that it breaks my heart in so many different ways that it is immeasurable.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You just reminded me of the not-very-funny thing we'd do when my friends in grad school went out to lunch together. The check would come, and would be passed around the table, with each person saying "You're the mathematician; you figure it out."
> 
> Okay, Joey, you're the tax-preparer; you figure it out.


Now there's an idea. A SS# for every new name... think of the disability checks!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Do we know who you are? 
Nope. 
Regardless of user name, nobody truly knows most of the people they meet IRW never mind on the internet. 
Someone could keep the same name for years and morph into whatever they felt the need to portray themselves as. 
Just to use a recent example, a woman met a man from online only to find out that he smoked when she had no idea. 
That seems like pretty basic info to me these days. 
That, and do you still have your own teeth?



Cindy S said:


> How many do you think it is necessary to have to post on KP? When someone is suspended they can come back under a new name, or in the case of this person, when all her posts get deleted, she just signs in on another name. Either you are who you are or you aren't. Simple.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Do we know who you are?
> Nope.
> Regardless of user name, nobody truly knows most of the people they meet IRW never mind on the internet.
> Someone could keep the same name for years and morph into whatever they felt the need to portray themselves as.
> ...


 I added a link to my previous post check halfway down the page to your post
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-269059-42.html#5588633

I can't argue with your statement. I just don't see why it is necessary to have more than one name to be on this site unless there is something odd going on. And of course you will only know what I want you to know about me, assuming I am telling you the truth, right?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> I added a link to my previous post check halfway down the page to your post
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-269059-42.html#5588633
> 
> I can't argue with your statement. I just don't see why it is necessary to have more than one name to be on this site unless there is something odd going on. And of course you will only know what I want you to know about me, assuming I am telling you the truth, right?


Exactly, and so long as you are nice to me most of the time I don't really care who you are. I am never going to meet you. 
Do we always do what is necessary? Do we sometimes do things just because we can?

My latest "just because I can" was to skip moving my lifeline up and having to rip out something like 28 rows of knitting. How about you?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Exactly, and so long as you are nice to me most of the time I don't really care who you are. I am never going to meet you.
> Do we always do what is necessary? Do we sometimes do things just because we can?
> 
> My latest "just because I can" was to skip moving my lifeline up and having to rip out something like 28 rows of knitting. How about you?


LOL, my "just because I can", shopping for wanted but certainly not needed yarn.......I am a baaaaad girl!!!


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Just because a people lived somewhere a couple of thousand years ago, they don't automatically own rights all this time later unless they were in continuous ownership. By the reasoning given, Italy should now have rights to England, France, Egypt and more since the Romans once ruled in those areas. Macedonia should have rights to a large bit of Asia and Egypt. Times change. Land rights are fluid over history. Israel, in modern terms, is an artificial construct that displaced peoples who had been in place for ages. How is it wrong in the case of American Indians but not in the case of Israel?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh yeah. 
I hope you make something beautiful to make up for that evil in your soul. 
I am trying not to accumulate anymore.



Cindy S said:


> LOL, my "just because I can", shopping for wanted but certainly not needed yarn.......I am a baaaaad girl!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I'm worried about Israel too. I hope she doesn't bend to the world's opinion and that she continues to respond to Hamas. I also think she should give Gaza 90 days warning to get out and then level the place!
> 
> Not knitting. You?


Me too regarding both Israel and knitting. Maybe tonight I will knit.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/global/2014/jul/23/un-high-commissioner-navi-pillay-war-crimes-israel
> 
> And this is a concern.


Thankfully Pillay is retiring. The UN has always been anti- Israel. IDF is warning the Palestinians before hand. They are fighting a gentlemanly war while the Arabs are firing their missiles in civilian areas. Wish the Israelis would stop being so considerate and bomb the crap out of Gaza and take back the land.

Mrs. Somma - I deeply appreciate your support.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> Just because a people lived somewhere a couple of thousand years ago, they don't automatically own rights all this time later unless they were in continuous ownership. By the reasoning given, Italy should now have rights to England, France, Egypt and more since the Romans once ruled in those areas. Macedonia should have rights to a large bit of Asia and Egypt. Times change. Land rights are fluid over history. Israel, in modern terms, is an artificial construct that displaced peoples who had been in place for ages. How is it wrong in the case of American Indians but not in the case of Israel?


Let me remind you that in 1948, countless number of Jews were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries after living there for a thousand years.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> never professed to be perfect. Doing things well, yes, perfekt not. What crawled up your skirt all of a sudden? As to the spelling, I guess my involvement with Yiddish speaking people effects my spelling. I enjoy that language. Sorry, it bothers you so much. Huck


Give me a break, who do you think you are kidding, Ingried? Everyone, including the Poor One, knows you are German, and that you regularly insert German spelling, phraseology and use incorrect capitalization and structure in your sentences and posts. No one is bothered by it either, even though you have often bragged about your higher intelligence, IQ, MENSA membership and massive Dictionary collection, the mistakes still exist and regularly appear. ROFLMBO :XD:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Is this your fourth or fifth name?


Fourth by my count; then again, who's counting; too many cooks in the kitchen. Oh, wait, Gerslay and you I think. :XD:

I gave up long ago when I stop reading all of their posts.

ETA: 5th - I forget one!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I would hazard a guess that there is no "gentlemanly" war. 
Just to bring this home a bit, do you think that if someone had hidden something deadly on your "block" and others wanted to destroy that by bombing and bulldozing so they gave you some notice that you should evacuate but you could not leave your "block" and you and your two brothers and your teminally ill SIL and the members of the next generation left your home but those missiles that have damned good technology but not perfect killed your child and one of your brothers would you feel that was nice and polite? 
You do know that part of that polite notice can be light shelling raining down on rooftops, right? How would you feel if all of the children in your neighborhood were terrified day after day? 
Both sides are right, both sides are wrong.

Do I blame Israel for doing whatever they need to do to protect their citizenry? Absolutely not. 
Do I weep for the dead on BOTH sides? You bet I do. 
Am I glad that the people of Israel have protection that I choose to think a few of my tax dollars paid for? Yup x's 3. 
Do I wish Hamas could get swallowed up into Florida sinkholes? Yes, Ma'am. 
It just sux. It sux.



SQM said:


> Thankfully Pillay is retiring. The UN has always been anti- Israel. IDF is warning the Palestinians before hand. They are fighting a gentlemanly war while the Arabs are firing their missiles in civilian areas. Wish the Israelis would stop being so considerate and bomb the crap out of Gaza and take back the land.
> 
> Mrs. Somma - I deeply appreciate your support.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> LOL, my "just because I can", shopping for wanted but certainly not needed yarn.......I am a baaaaad girl!!!


HAHAHAA, scrolling up and seeing that baaaad reminds me I need to check out a few sheep threads.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Haven't you seen her in photos, Joey? I have. Not going to say any more about her, she gets no more of my attention. She is a die-hard, crackpot Lib, enough said.


Had to get in that "Lib" zinger, did you? Can't you ever give it a rest? By now we know one another's biases. You would have been correct ending with crackpot. We also know one another's mishugassen.

Ladies of a liberal persuasion disavow association with crackpots. There are enough nice people in the world with whom to get along that we don't need to look for agita.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I'm worried about Israel too. I hope she doesn't bend to the world's opinion and that she continues to respond to Hamas. I also think she should give Gaza 90 days warning to get out and then level the place!
> 
> Not knitting. You?


Thanks for the support of Israel. Damned if she does and doomed if she doesn't.

Got a neat fast knit for a good cause for anyone interested. Our Knitting for a Cause group is making baby hats in shades of purple for the Click for Babies project. The goal is to raise awareness of the "period of purple crying" and prevention of shaken baby syndrome.

http://www.clickforbabies.org/about-click-for-babies-campaign.php


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> What do you mean?


It's just a play on words. Your use of the word "dogma" made it pop into my head.

It's supposed to make you think: Your car (kar-ma) ran over my dog (dog-ma). Now that I've had to explain, it's way less funny than it used to be.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Now there's an idea. A SS# for every new name... think of the disability checks!


Oh, cool. Now I wish I had to change my name.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Massachusetts House Passes Radical Bill Prohibiting Pro-Life Free Speech
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Boston, MA | LifeNews.com | 7/23/14 3:59 PM
> 
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.
> 
> I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


Many of us who are advocates for Israel do not agree with everything her politicians do and promote, either.

The big dilemma is Israel being pushed into a corner by neighbors who keep trying to annihilate her. And the enemies of Israel have no regard for their own civilians, either. They put their military installations in the middle of residential areas.

Arab/Muslim controlled land is huge. It is not land that is the question, it is land supporting Jews that is the target.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You have been around here much more than I have Al, and I respect your opinion. However, I have never felt that she needed to be so 'abrasive' which is ongoing. It is quite possible that there are two or three people, I certainly don't know.
> 
> I am sure she is committed to her beliefs - I also think you are and Dame, and Purl and SQM and the rest of us. I know we all react and feel differently. I have felt this for a long long time. It could be that I am overstepping but I have done that before for what I believe, and likely will again. You are a friend to me and I know you know her better than I do. I used to know her quite well, but not recently, mainly because I don't agree with her methods. I respect and like Purl too, and your opinions are important, I also respect Maysmom and don't believe she deserves the attack she received either. I am tired, and tomorrow dh has another colonoscopy which is causing me some worry, so best I go and read as I am feeling very down right now and am not good company. Talk to you later. I applaud you standing up for a friend, even though I can't agree with the friend.


I hope things go well for Pat. Try to get a decent night's sleep.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

sumpleby said:


> I am opening myself to being attack for being "anti-Israel," which I am not. I just don't agree with everything they do.
> 
> I see so many people (not just here) who say "but look what you did to the American Indians." But how is what happened to the Palestinians any different? They were shoved off their lands and stuck in what are essentially reservations. And then shoved some more when "settlers" want to claim more land. The Gaza Strip is 139 square miles but has a population of 1.8 million people. You can't have that many people in such a small space and not expect unrest. Looking back, no one can blame the American Indians for the fighting back they did, though at the time white settlers were outraged and determined to get rid of the Indians. Same goes for Israel today.


Apples and oranges.
http://www.prageruniversity.com/Political-Science/Middle-East-Problem.html#.U9BLH2K9KSN

The Jews occupied Canaan (name of Israel during biblical times) from the time of Exodus until the Romans kicked them out during the diaspora, sometime between 500 and 1000 years later. The short of it is the Romans couldn't control the Jews, so they had them removed. This is the only reason why there are Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jews. The Arabs were not around at

If anything, the Jews are the native Americans in this analogy, bc they were there first.

The Jews occupied Canaan (name of Israel during biblical times) from the time of Exodus until the Romans kicked them out during the diaspora, sometime between 500 and 1000 years later. The short of it is the Romans couldn't control the Jews, so they had them removed. This is the only reason why there are Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jews. The Arabs were not around at the time of the diaspora. When the Ottomans (Turks) took over, there was no way Jews could move back. 
Before even WWII, the British were trying to get The land occupied by the Turks (then called Palestine, but it was not the "Palestine" these people are fighting over, it was a Turkish Palestine where these people were treated like below second class citizens) away from them. They employed Jewish spies in order to accomplish this with the premise that they would restore their homeland after almost 2000 years of exile. Keep in mind thata when the Jews left Israel, they found no safe haven in where they went. The were forced into the original ghettos (yes, they did exist before the nazis. The nazis only tried to accomplish permanently what others tried to do socially) and shtetls (small Jewish communities where they had to live under harsher laws and taxation than the general public, constant abuse (and killings) by the police, and being forced to move from place to place).

When the holocaust happened, it was apparent that the Jews needed, and deserved, their homeland back. In order to be "fair", the British (along with other world powers) arbitrarily split the territory up between the inhabitants that were abandoned by the Turks (Palestinians) and the Jews. When they did so, they didn't draw a line dividing this land between the two peoples. They gave sections to one and the other. If you looked at a color coded map, it would look like islands in a lake.

The surrounding Arab nations were not satisfied with this, as they had the same hatred of the Jews as the nazis did. They convinced the Palestinians that they would protect them and annihilate the Jews and return all the territories to the Palestinians. The ones who emigrated to these Arab nations were not welcomed there except for the fact that they were pawns in a very dark and destructive game. Against all odds, the Jews won and the Palestinians were exiled from the countries who swore to protect them. The Jews graciously allowed them back, though the Palestinians freely gave up those territories when they abandoned them to go to the Arab nations. Israel did not have to do this. They have given the Palestinians chance after chance and even gave up land they won in a wars they never wanted to fight in the first place.

Don't believe everything you hear from the media.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> never professed to be perfect. Doing things well, yes, perfekt not. What crawled up your skirt all of a sudden? As to the spelling, I guess my involvement with Yiddish speaking people effects my spelling. I enjoy that language. Sorry, it bothers you so much. Huck


Linguists should have listened to George Bernard Shaw. He wanted to simplify spelling and make it consistent. English and Hebrew both have the problem of different letters making the same sound and try to figure it out.

I love Spanish, which has defined pronunciation for each letter and minimal exceptions to the rules. Of course, in Spanish I get totally confounded by the genders of nouns. Can't win!

I studied Esperanto many many years ago, but it was too artificial to last, and it didn't. More fun than Pig Latin, though. My BFF Bev and I used to write notes to each other in Esperanto in high school.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> New York City is 305 square miles and has a population of 8 million plus, giving it twice the density of Gaza. Do you think we ought to send rockets into New Jersey to get them to hand over Newark and Elizabeth?
> 
> Hamas showed what they wanted the minute they were given Gaza to run. Israel had built greenhouses there, which the Palestinians could have used to get some income; instead, Hamas destroyed them. They were far more interested in getting hold of rockets to shoot at Israel and totally uninterested in providing their people with promised social services.


Darling Purl, Do you want Newark and Elizabeth? Take them and we will throw in Camden and Chris Christie. Be the Mouse that Roared!!

What about our annexing Staten Island? It is closer to us than to you.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> That, and do you still have your own teeth?


Just catching this last sentence. All one's teeth are one's own. Either they are home grown or bought and paid for!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Linguists should have listened to George Bernard Shaw. He wanted to simplify spelling and make it consistent. English and Hebrew both have the problem of different letters making the same sound and try to figure it out.
> 
> And English also has one letter making more than one sound. Confusing for English language earners.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

sumpleby said:


> Just because a people lived somewhere a couple of thousand years ago, they don't automatically own rights all this time later unless they were in continuous ownership. By the reasoning given, Italy should now have rights to England, France, Egypt and more since the Romans once ruled in those areas. Macedonia should have rights to a large bit of Asia and Egypt. Times change. Land rights are fluid over history. Israel, in modern terms, is an artificial construct that displaced peoples who had been in place for ages. How is it wrong in the case of American Indians but not in the case of Israel?


Except Israel was peacefully divided by the UN and the Jews never wanted to fight in any wars. They still don't. They have given a majority of the territories won in the war for independence (1948), but this wasn't enough. It WONT be enough until there are is no more Israel and no more Jews. How is that like the native Americans? The settlers were the ones who wanted to wipe out the natives (knowingly exposing them to deadly des eases, early form of biological warfare). The Jews in no way want to destroy the Arab nations, Muslim, or Palestinians. A small percentage (Hamas) wants to desolate Israel. The Palestinians who are not part of Hamas obey bc they live in fear.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-11/is-hamas-trying-to-get-gazans-killed


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just catching this last sentence. All one's teeth are one's own. Either they are home grown or bought and paid for!


HAHAHAAA, true.

Though, there are those who would say that if Medicaid paid for them (which they won't) they would only belong to the Republican conservatives because Libs and Dems don't pay any kind of taxes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It doesn't really bother me all that much, Huck. It just looks Russian, or like the hippies who always spelled America as Amerika. I only wondered whether there was a purpose.


PoorPurl
no purpose just an oversight of a not so perfect person.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Bless my soul, Gerslay honey, I never dreamed you read messages written by li'l ol' me. I do criticize misspellings, but only when I think they've been made on purpose. Or when the writer claims to be a wordsmith.
> 
> But that was a fair cop, Gerslay. You got me.


Me thinks thats a hollow blessing, Purl darlin, didnt you just claim a few days ago that you dont believe in souls?

Wikipedia: How to know when someone has lost a flame war
1- They are pissed off, using all caps, typing excessive comments and making little sense. 
2- They are using profanity, making hate comments about sexual orientation, race, etc. 
3- They resort to calling out someones inability to type or spell.

I love you more!

:lol:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's just a play on words. Your use of the word "dogma" made it pop into my head.
> 
> It's supposed to make you think: Your car (kar-ma) ran over my dog (dog-ma). Now that I've had to explain, it's way less funny than it used to be.


It's very clever and quite funny. Sorry to ruin your amusement.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Just because a people lived somewhere a couple of thousand years ago, they don't automatically own rights all this time later unless they were in continuous ownership. By the reasoning given, Italy should now have rights to England, France, Egypt and more since the Romans once ruled in those areas. Macedonia should have rights to a large bit of Asia and Egypt. Times change. Land rights are fluid over history. Israel, in modern terms, is an artificial construct that displaced peoples who had been in place for ages. How is it wrong in the case of American Indians but not in the case of Israel?


There have always been descendants of the Hebrews living in what we call Israel. A few times, under the rule of foreign nations, they were exiled but continued to return as soon as they could. Their numbers have never been huge, but they are no less entitled to the land because of that. When the State of Israel was recognized by 2/3 of the membership of the UN, that should have been that. Israel was prepared to stay within its 1948 borders, but its neighbors started a war in 1967 (Six Day War), by the end of which the Israeli forces were occupying the rest of the country, and again in 1973 (Yom Kippur War, lasting almost 3 weeks). Are the Israelis to be punished for winning those wars? What other country has that happened to?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's just a play on words. Your use of the word "dogma" made it pop into my head.
> 
> It's supposed to make you think: Your car (kar-ma) ran over my dog (dog-ma). Now that I've had to explain, it's way less funny than it used to be.


Sorry, going catatonic over that one.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Had to get in that "Lib" zinger, did you? Can't you ever give it a rest? By now we know one another's biases. You would have been correct ending with crackpot. We also know one another's mishugassen.
> 
> Ladies of a liberal persuasion disavow association with crackpots. There are enough nice people in the world with whom to get along that we don't need to look for agita.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> HAHAHAAA, true.
> 
> Though, there are those who would say that if Medicaid paid for them (which they won't) they would only belong to the Republican conservatives because Libs and Dems don't pay any kind of taxes.


Really? I have to tell my tax preparer that. Once good old Bruce picks himself off the floor and chases me around the office, we will both have a good laugh.

If you live in NJ unless you are some sort of really Richie Rich you pay taxes through the proverbial wazoo. If you leave the state there is even some sort of exit tax you have to pay.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Many of us who are advocates for Israel do not agree with everything her politicians do and promote, either.
> 
> The big dilemma is Israel being pushed into a corner by neighbors who keep trying to annihilate her. And the enemies of Israel have no regard for their own civilians, either. They put their military installations in the middle of residential areas.
> 
> Arab/Muslim controlled land is huge. It is not land that is the question, it is land supporting Jews that is the target.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> MarilynKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Linguists should have listened to George Bernard Shaw. He wanted to simplify spelling and make it consistent. English and Hebrew both have the problem of different letters making the same sound and try to figure it out.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Darling Purl, Do you want Newark and Elizabeth? Take them and we will throw in Camden and Chris Christie. Be the Mouse that Roared!!
> 
> What about our annexing Staten Island? It is closer to us than to you.


The only thing I'd like you to throw Chris Christie in is the Hudson. You can have Staten Island. It's full of Republicans, including that guy who threatened to throw a reporter off a balcony.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I have heard that English is the most difficult to learn as so many sounds have different spellings and so many words mean 2 or 3 different things.


Yes, and GBS did have a sense of humor/humour about it:

To emphasize the problem, Bernard Shaw once proposed the spelling ghoti for "fish", with the [gh] from "laugh", the [o] from "women" and the [ti] from "nation".


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The only thing I'd like you to throw Chris Christie in is the Hudson. You can have Staten Island. It's full of Republicans, including that guy who threatened to throw a reporter off a balcony.


But Clove Lake Park is so pretty. When I was a summer camp counselor at the Boro Park Y, we used to go to Staten Island each day. But Mount Koch sure spoiled the ambiance.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Me thinks thats a hollow blessing, Purl darlin, didnt you just claim a few days ago that you dont believe in souls?
> 
> Wikipedia: How to know when someone has lost a flame war
> 1- They are pissed off, using all caps, typing excessive comments and making little sense.
> ...


Gerslay, you not only read my messages but you remembered. I truly am honored. And just for that:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's very clever and quite funny. Sorry to ruin your amusement.


You didn't ruin it at all. I'm glad you found it funny.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sorry, going catatonic over that one.


I could say the same, Marilyn. What do you mean?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have heard that English is the most difficult to learn as so many sounds have different spellings and so many words mean 2 or 3 different things.


Designer1234
is it a wonder that we are such poor spellers? Add to it that each Region has its own way of expressing itself like: "You all, I's fixen to go in the yad, take a little rest and use the yan I have left over to make somethin before I is too taad ( supposed to be tired = have no clue how to spell that).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> MarilynKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Linguists should have listened to George Bernard Shaw. He wanted to simplify spelling and make it consistent. English and Hebrew both have the problem of different letters making the same sound and try to figure it out.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Except Israel was peacefully divided by the UN and the Jews never wanted to fight in any wars. They still don't. They have given a majority of the territories won in the war for independence (1948), but this wasn't enough. It WONT be enough until there are is no more Israel and no more Jews. How is that like the native Americans? The settlers were the ones who wanted to wipe out the natives (knowingly exposing them to deadly des eases, early form of biological warfare). The Jews in no way want to destroy the Arab nations, Muslim, or Palestinians. A small percentage (Hamas) wants to desolate Israel. The Palestinians who are not part of Hamas obey bc they live in fear.
> 
> http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-11/is-hamas-trying-to-get-gazans-killed


I liked that piece from Bloomberg - thanks for the link.

What people need to keep in mind is that no matter how many wars Israel wins, it only needs to lose one, and it's gone. It can never be caught off-guard.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> There are some who may bash you, I won't be one. It is one hell of a mess.
> A major problem as far as I can tell is that the Palestinian people support Hamas.
> I can only liken that here to the "militia" folk who support someone like Cliven Bundy and the additional armed confrontations that has encouraged in 4(?) other states.
> Since governments are charged with protecting citizens what else can the Israeli gov't do but bomb the hell out the strongholds?
> ...


I agree with everything you say. If Hamas, and the radical Palistinians have their way Israel will be removed from the face of the earth . I remember when Isreai was given Statehood by the UN. The Mufti of Jerusalem told the arabs that Isrealis had to be wiped out and any arab who accepted them, including those who were told they could stay in Israel, would die as they would become infidels. I have newspaper clippings put away somewhere where that was the headline.

It was believed that if he had accepted the State of Israel, it would be a different situation now. Israel citizens are well aware that if they don't defend their borders and their country that those feelings still exist.

I remember as a young girl seeing the death camps on the news reels. I also remember a friend of mine who was called home from school. I walked her out to her Mother had come to pick her up from school. She was crying and told both of us what had happened in the concentrations camps. Her whole family had been killed in the ovens.

Canada and the United States both turned ships away with Jews who were trying to escape the camps. They had to go back to Europe and were killed by the Nazis. We never learned that until long after the war. Small wonder that Israel often feels that she must defend herself, no one else will.

I am ashamed that my country would not accept them. Our citizens were horrified, as were American Citizens when that news was made public quite a long time after the war ended. . I am not sure just when but it was many years later.

I have acknowledged this story before on these threads. I went to school with a fairly large Jewish group in high school, some were good friends. I still feel sad at what my Government did. I still wonder why. I don't have any memory of people wanting the ship to be refused We were not even told there were ships- I only learned about it years later. However, at the same time Palestinians were moved out of their homes to make the state of Israel. They, (I believe, if I remember correctly) were told that they could stay in Israel if they chose- however, the Mufti told them they shouldn't and couldn't. There is right on both sides and it is something that will never be entirely fair. I also believe that Egypt would not accept the Palestinians - (I must check that out - but if my memory serves me that was the case. What if they had been willing, what if the Mufti had stayed out of it - it could be a different story today.

My husband spent a year on the Gaza strip with the United Nations Emergency Forces (Canada). They, as well as other United Nation armed forces (Army usually) were there to protect the border. He said Gaza was extremely crowded and the people were poor. He liked both the Palestinians and the Jewish Settlers , as he traveled back and forth over the border as well as down to Sharm el Shiek where the Norwegians had an outpost. We have always, since then really paid attention to what is happening there.

I don't see personally, how it will ever get better - especially as there are those on the Palestinian side who are terrorists in my opinion (Hamas). Too much water under the bridge -so tragic in my opinion. Thousands of Palestinians have been killed, there have been constant attacks on Israel since day one. Hamas don't want peace - they use the Palestinians as pawns in their hatred of Israel and the Jews. Sad.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The "Promised Land" was given to Israel when they followed Moses out of Egypt. They have been driven from their land many times. But they have always returned and* it is their land.* No mere human can change it.


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Is this your fourth or fifth name?


Raising my hand. I know, I know. :XD:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> How many do you think it is necessary to have to post on KP? When someone is suspended they can come back under a new name, or in the case of this person, when all her posts get deleted, she just signs in on another name. Either you are who you are or you aren't. Simple.
> 
> BTW, half way down the page from you on June 25
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-269059-42.html#5588633


 :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Sorry to see that your reading comprehension is off. Maybe you're here from D & P ?


That comment is truly unnecessary, and your question is just proof of your inability to converse maturely, in my opinion.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SamStevens said:


> Admin knows how to do it. But, admin would prefer to have lots of people sign up and he can claim to potential advertisers he has more members here than he really does.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SamStevens said:


> Admin knows how to do it. But, admin would prefer to have lots of people sign up and he can claim to potential advertisers he has more members here than he really does.


And here we go again!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SamStevens said:


> You are truly slow on the uptake. I've been using various names for many months now. I usually make it very clear that I'm VL and don't hide it.
> 
> If Admin really doesn't want me here, he could easily prevent me from posting. But evidently he likes the game.
> 
> In the meantime, if I have something to say, I'll say it whether I say it under 1 name or 1000.


I just don't understand what you get out of it. Stay and play it straight or leave. You come in and deliberately attack and then get booted. You enjoy it . Now that you are here I am taking a break. Enjoy!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I have heard that English is the most difficult to learn as so many sounds have different spellings and so many words mean 2 or 3 different things.


I had no problems.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SamStevens said:


> Well, you have a tendency to see EVERYONE as VL, so you really don't know how many have been me.
> 
> You've accused PP and Jelun and Bratty Patty. Cheeky and many, many others of being me too when they weren't. You even attacked one of your own, Betsy Ross, based on your paranoia and ran her off the board when she was mourning the death of her brother.
> 
> ...


How can you be proud of how you acted and treated others as sockpuppet. you get off with being nasty. I used to have respect for you -- no longer. Not that you give a darn. To each his own. Friends, I have a lot going on this weekend starting tomorrow I might drop around on the weekend - it depends on what is happening here. Right now I have no interest in staying. You don't do us proud whatever your name is now. At least that is my opinion.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I was once asked by a man from Hungary "How can you tell that t-e-a-r is pronounced _teer_ if it drips from your eye and _tare_ if you do it to paper?" I had no answer.


Context. He would need to rely on context. I am sure other languages have the same issue, also.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I liked that piece from Bloomberg - thanks for the link.
> 
> What people need to keep in mind is that no matter how many wars Israel wins, it only needs to lose one, and it's gone. It can never be caught off-guard.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: True!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I liked that piece from Bloomberg - thanks for the link.
> 
> What people need to keep in mind is that no matter how many wars Israel wins, it only needs to lose one, and it's gone. It can never be caught off-guard.


No prob. What the people who think Israel needs to just "bend over and take it" (sorry, I don't know a nicer way to put it) also need to keep in mind is a) how important Israel is as an ally, and b) if Israel were to "cease to exist", who do they think the radicals would come after next? Do they think these people would be satisfied with less than half the worlds Jewish population? Over half the Jewish population in the world lives in the US. A lot live in Canada. The war is not about who was there first or rights to land. It is a spiteful game of wanting a people annihilated. They have said it over and over. They hate Americans, too, as they have made very clear with the rallies and flag burnings. The parades when our WTC fell and the pentagon was hit. Israel is very strategically placed as a launching pad, as well.

Come on, people.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> No prob. What the people who think Israel needs to just "bend over and take it" (sorry, I don't know a nicer way to put it) also need to keep in mind is a) how important Israel is as an ally, and b) if Israel were to "cease to exist", who do they think the radicals would come after next? Do they think these people would be satisfied with less than half the worlds Jewish population? Over half the Jewish population in the world lives in the US. A lot live in Canada. The war is not about who was there first or rights to land. It is a spiteful game of wanting a people annihilated. They have said it over and over. They hate Americans, too, as they have made very clear with the rallies and flag burnings. The parades when our WTC fell and the pentagon was hit. Israel is very strategically placed as a launching pad, as well.
> 
> Come on, people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Context. He would need to rely on context. I am sure other languages have the same issue, also.


His question assumed the context. What he couldn't understand was how the same letters could sound different depending on context.

Hungarian is one of those languages that are pronounced exactly as spelled. It doesn't even accent one syllable per word. It's as though every syllable were another word.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SamStevens said:


> Actually she's not making fun of the spelling, she was asking why she was misspelling it and whether there was a snarky purpose in doing it. It's such a strange repetitive misspelling.


Exactly, Sam.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> His question assumed the context. What he couldn't understand was how the same letters could sound different depending on context.
> 
> Hungarian is one of those languages that are pronounced exactly as spelled. It doesn't even accent one syllable per word. It's as though every syllable were another word.


I've read that English is the least phonetic language. I am inclined to believe that, as many of our words are phonetically misspelled.

This also reminds me of the song "why can't the English?" From the play(s)/movie MY FAIR LADY and Pygmalion (interestingly enough ALSO George Bernard Shaw.). 
"Norwegians learn Norwegian, 
the Greeks are taught their Greek. 
In France every Frenchman knows his language from "a" to "zed". The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce in properly. 
Arabians learn Arabian with the speed of summer lightning. 
And Hebrews learn it backwards, 
which is absolutely frightening. 
But use proper English you're regarded as a freak. 
Why can't the English,
Why can't the English learn to speak?"

Of course, Proffessor Henry Higgins is referring to the phonetics spoken, and not the written language. The same sentiment applies, though. And now with the internet we have a merging of the two.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I've read that English is the least phonetic language. I am inclined to believe that, as many of our words are phonetically misspelled.
> 
> This also reminds me of the song "why can't the English?" From the play(s)/movie MY FAIR LADY and Pygmalion (interestingly enough ALSO George Bernard Shaw.).
> "Norwegians learn Norwegian,
> ...


Naturechampion
TX LGHWME. GD N8. CULTR.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Naturechampion
> TX LGHWME. GD N8. CULTR.


Sorry, I don't know what any of that means, is it "text lingo"? Or is that the point?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Sorry, I don't know what any of that means, is it "text lingo"? Or is that the point?


Naturechampion
yes it is text lingo. 
TX - thanks
LGHWME - laugh with me
GD N8 - good night
CULTR or CUL8R - see you later

As more of this stuff creeps into regular writing it will wrinkle the bloomers of some folks here into a discomfort zone.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Naturechampion
> yes it is text lingo.
> TX - thanks
> LGHWME - laugh with me
> ...


Ok, I was right on the "TX" "LGHWME", and GD "N8". Good, I'm not TOO far out of the loop. I have to say, my bloomers have been wrinkled ever since phones were able to text. And I was pretty much "that generation"! I stil pronounce "lol" as a word. Kinda like the dad in the geico commercial. Lol. :wink:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, I was right on the "TX" "LGHWME", and GD "N8". Good, I'm not TOO far out of the loop. I have to say, my bloomers have been wrinkled ever since phones were able to text. And I was pretty much "that generation"! I stil pronounce "lol" as a word. Kinda like the dad in the geico commercial. Lol. :wink:


Naturechampion
sounds like you are doing very well keeping up with the times. Texting can come in very handy. I prefer "normal" writing to texting but texting has its place. It is modern day's shorthand. Are the plants in your Avatar things you planted?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we are truthfully at the 'agree to disagree' stage regarding care of elders. 

We all bring our personal opinions and experience to the issue. The trick is to remember that we are all judging on limited information about strangers. It's an opinion at best and we all admit everyone is entitled to their opinion. IMO


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMO it goes both ways. I'm not sure what triggered this fiasco. But no good will come of it. I know everyone pretty well....fine, good, normally reasonable people. Where did they go?



Cindy S said:


> For Pete's sake, would you people stop feeding fuel to JoniLovesChachi (what number name are we on now?) Just ignore her she is getting her jollies by firing you people up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I must admit that I have changed my user name. I was being stalked and threatened and I hoped it would do some good. Name changing is very common. 

What's the quote about 'casting the first stone?'


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

See. Now we woke up joey's cut & paste ability. I wish I'd just give up and go finish my book.



joeysomma said:


> Ex-Planned Parenthood Director: They Told Me Every Baby Killed in Abortion Made Them $313.29
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/22/14 10:46 AM
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Huck. I'm like a baby who has their times mixed up. Hope all is well. hugs



Huckleberry said:


> Hello. Had a pleasant night and an exiting day ahead. Wish you a swell day as well. Huck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems to me that you have had quite a few reincarnations yourself. What's your point?

signed Die-Hard Lib



knitpresentgifts said:


> Haven't you seen her in photos, Joey? I have. Not going to say any more about her, she gets no more of my attention. She is a die-hard, crackpot Lib, enough said.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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