# Smoking and Obamacare #6



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> so, Cheeky, you've bought into the tone of this topic in record time. How interesting.


Seattle, it is time for all little girls to go to bed plus your gang has left this site! Nighty, night, don't let the bed bugs bite!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm back. Anyone want to play? 

I too wish we could all speak in a way we all understand. This is like trying to read Chaucer. I always feel like I'm missing something. Is this the intent? When clarification is requested, no helpful response. I guess I have my answer about intent. Is this a debate or a club initiation?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Suzi you remind me of a small child; you keep asking for more information hoping you will get the answer you want. If a person chooses not to clarify maybe they are tired of repeating themselves. And the situation has been frustrating for some of us when we were threatened to be reported to the FBI and Secret Service because it is her patriotic duty and supposedly that happened on Ravelry. But alas, no response to my who, what, when and where.

Maybe you need "Chaucer for Dummies" or this:

http://www.amazon.com/Canterbury-Tales-Cliffs-Notes/dp/0764585908/ref=sr_1_17?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365069340&sr=1-17&keywords=canterbury+tales .

Since you have been on the site before, under a different name and your reputation followed you, please don't embarrass yourself by acting like you feel you are being put through the gauntlet as a newbie. The truth will set you free

Maybe Obama has some stimulus money to give you and you can build your own tree house. You might find the solitude comforting


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, the Indians are coming!


Truly, heehee


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> But she will not answer me and then she expects answers from anyone she questions.


Sounds like a threat to me...let me gather some extra coconuts on a just-in-case basis.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Suzi you remind me of a small child; you keep asking for more information hoping you will get the answer you want. If a person chooses not to clarify maybe they are tired of repeating themselves. And the situation has been frustrating for some of us when we were threatened to be reported to the FBI and Secret Service because it is her patriotic duty and supposedly that happened on Ravelry. But alas, no response to my who, what, when and where.
> 
> Maybe you need "Chaucer for Dummies" or this:
> 
> ...


good morning, how are you doing? Still want an answer last night tomy question, but no response, about housing market and the President new idea, well old Idea, from Clinton day's that cause banks (and I do think their fault to)But we know have him promising to back these banks if it happens again. We have already with taxes payers money bailed them out (meaning banks) once. Poeple who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down paymenst.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

My friend cannot find a job. Must loose her home and find a "room". And people say the economy is getting better. I think it is getting worse. She is destitute at 65 years old.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Poeple who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down paymenst.


Frankly I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for folks who fall a second time for this scam..."fool me once, shame on you/fool me twice, shame on me".


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes nothing about Rocky's comment about he was just exercising his second amendment rights when she replied to the post about the shooting of the Texas DA and his wife. 

A flippant answer to a very sad situation, but it was the responses to it from joeysmama that was has gotten people talking. 

Sorry I found her response appalling and not the least bit cute, funny or whatever she was trying to be. It was sad and pathetic to make light of two
Deaths.

I gather her remark only offended a couple of us.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Yes nothing about Rocky's comment about he was just exercising his second amendment rights when she replied to the post about the shooting of the Texas DA and his wife.
> 
> A flippant answer to a very sad situation, but it was the responses to it from joeysmama that was has gotten people talking.
> 
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Yes nothing about Rocky's comment about he was just exercising his second amendment rights when she replied to the post about the shooting of the Texas DA and his wife.
> 
> A flippant answer to a very sad situation, but it was the responses to it from joeysmama that was has gotten people talking.
> 
> ...


It did offend me as well. But I just put it down as rocky being rocky and to have tried to say anything to her would have fallen on deaf ears.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > A flippant answer to a very sad situation, but it was the responses to it from joeysmama that was has gotten people talking.
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It did offend me as well. But I just put it down as rocky being rocky and to have tried to say anything to her would have fallen on deaf ears.


It was awful what happen to those two people. To make lite of it is what one would expect . :twisted:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> It did offend me as well. But I just put it down as rocky being rocky and to have tried to say anything to her would have fallen on deaf ears.


Thank you for your reply, I too try to ignore some of her remarks, but that one I felt was over the top.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> My friend cannot find a job. Must loose her home and find a "room". And people say the economy is getting better. I think it is getting worse. She is destitute at 65 years old.


wouldn't it be nice if our goverment showed something other than not even thinking about anything other then their own pockets.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> My friend cannot find a job. Must loose her home and find a "room". And people say the economy is getting better. I think it is getting worse. She is destitute at 65 years old.


I agree. The economy is getting worse and all obama wants to do is spend more money. Now he wants to spend $100 millon on mapping the human brain. Let's do his first. It would a low budget project as there wouldn't be anything to map.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree. The economy is getting worse and all obama wants to do is spend more money. Now he wants to spend $100 millon on mapping the human brain. Let's do his first. It would a low budget project as there wouldn't be anything to map.


Oh you that is a good one . Do you every wonder what the goverment is thinking of or thinking at all.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> So with your reasoning, I could exercise my second amendment rights and shoot you.


This was her response to Rocky's comment, she was asking a question about her reasoning and therefore it would be okay to shoot someone and say I was exercising my second amendment right.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Neither of you deserve an answer!
> 
> :twisted: :hunf: :?: :shock: :mrgreen: :thumbdown:


A filibuster???


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> It was awful what happen to those two people. To make lite of it is what one would expect . :twisted:


Sometimes I just don't understand you ladies. Joeysmama made a threatening statement, and while I doubt Rocky is terribly concerned such comments are definitely against the forum rules. Why didn't you encourage the poster--one of your own--to take it down immediately?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So with your reasoning, I could exercise my second amendment rights and shoot you.


Ask Sharon Engle. It's open season on law enforcement. But we don't need no stinking gun control.
Sorry but I was being facetious.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ask Sharon Engle. It's open season on law enforcement. But we don't need no stinking gun control.
> Sorry but I was being facetious.


I'm sure you were...but it's very strange how when one of the GOPers crosses the line and says something inappropriate it inevitably has to do with guns, shooting people etc etc. Forget the background checks for gun buyers, I think a thorough psychological workup might do a better job of weeding out the nut jobs.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> So from your reasoning all shootings could be or can be justified because of the second amendment.
> 
> Whether said in jest or for whatever reason.
> Two people were shot, 5 children lost both of their parents.
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oops. wrong post.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sometimes I just don't understand you ladies. Joeysmama made a threatening statement, and while I doubt Rocky is terribly concerned such comments are definitely against the forum rules. Why didn't you encourage the poster--one of your own--to take it down immediately?


What are you talking about?

Rocky offends me almost every time she posts. I just put down as a sick need to have attention. I try to be kinds to those that might have mental difficulties.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

http://patdollard.com/2013/04/aclu-freaks-out-over-harry-reid-gun-control-bill/

According to this article the ACLU isn't thrilled with Harry Reid's bill. 
Harry reid could bring it for a vote, the senate is controlled by dems, so they could pass it. 
Think it isn't just the republicans that might a problem with the bill.

I agree I don't know why people need assault weapons.
But is that part of the bill banning assault weapons? 
Do we really know what is in the bill

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/04/02/176064154/gun-control-prospects-recede-as-politics-swamps-momentum


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > So from your reasoning all shootings could be or can be justified because of the second amendment.
> ...


I'm not sure what additional legislation would help, if any. The current laws aren't prosecuted as stringently as they should be. And do you have ANY idea what an 'assault' weapon is? I doubt that.

I have concerns regarding the psychological portion. How are they going to determine that? Medical records check? Who will determine the guidelines as to who poses a psychological risk? A government panel? Yeah, that makes me feel MUCH better...not.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Rocky offends me almost every time she posts.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I have concerns regarding the psychological portion. How are they going to determine that? Medical records check? Who will determine the guidelines as to who poses a psychological risk? A government panel? Yeah, that makes me feel MUCH better...not.


Maybe you're right, it might simplify things to simply check the would-be buyer's political affiliations then show the Republicans the door.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> That's good to hear as long as it does not take away all the rights to bear arms. I think assult weapons should be band.


The right to keep and bear arms can't be taken away unless the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution is changed or removed. Some gun control laws may end up being deemed Unconstitutional if cases are brought before the Supreme court.

I welcome some reasonable gun control laws. There seems to be at least one news story a day on the local news here, and there seem to be increasing numbers of children being hit in the crossfire, or being killed on purpose. Obviously this is extremely horrible and I hope and pray something can be done to change this. It feels like the Wild West has returned, and instead of being ruled by law, we are being ruled by guns.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe you're right, it might simplify things to simply check the would-be buyer's political affiliations then show the Republicans the door.


What do you have to fear from the Republicans?

However, the democrats, who are typically in fear of guns, wouldn't applying. They'd just fearfully hide in the closet from the criminals and wait for the police to arrive...or for their Republican neighbor with their firearm.

Everyone who desires to _legally purchase a gun_ must go through a background check. If I wanted to sell a gun to a neighbor, no I wouldn't be legally required to perform a check. But you can bet that I'd have to know the persons character, training on the firearm, and intent/reason for wanting it before I would sell them one.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> good morning, how are you doing? Still want an answer last night tomy question, but no response, about housing market and the President new idea, well old Idea, from Clinton day's that cause banks (and I do think their fault to)But we know have him promising to back these banks if it happens again. We have already with taxes payers money bailed them out (meaning banks) once. People who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down payments.


If we return to the Clinton era housing policies I think I'll have to head for the hills and live in an underground bunker. I haven't heard any news stories that there's some kind of plan to return to those policies, but this is one time I sincerely hope you're wrong about what you heard. Have you heard anything else?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> If I wanted to sell a gun to a neighbor, no I wouldn't be legally required to perform a check. But you can bet that I'd have to know the persons character, training on the firearm, and intent/reason for wanting it before I would sell them one.


I believe you, but I don't believe most sellers have the same scruples. What's the point of requiring stores to perform background checks when a potential customer can buy from a neighbor with no questions asked?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Out of curiosity, I decided to count how many rude, insulting and completely off-topic remarks were made between page 94 (where I left off reading last night) and this page (102). I counted 43, and did not leave my own out. 

The discussions about real subjects are interesting but separated by so much irrelevant stuff it gets hard to follow any particular discussion. John Lennon wanted to give peace a chance, obviously way too difficult to accomplish. Could we please give intellectual, well-informed discussion a chance? We might actually be able to accomplish that


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I believe you, but I don't believe most sellers have the same scruples. What's the point of requiring stores to perform background checks when a potential customer can buy from a neighbor with no questions asked?


The vast majority of sales are from a store. Regarding the personal sales who's scruples would you judging by?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Husband bought a new hunting gun last week back ground check take a longer time and questions ask then one would think there is.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> If we return to the Clinton era housing policies I think I'll have to head for the hills and live in an underground bunker. I haven't heard any news stories that there's some kind of plan to return to those policies, but this is one time I sincerely hope you're wrong about what you heard. Have you heard anything else?


Haven't heard any more. But even the thought of it. I know that the banks will use this more then any other lending of money, and if goverment backs their lost we will be in for another bail out. 
I will have a look later as am off to check out new chicken coop.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree. The economy is getting worse and all obama wants to do is spend more money. Now he wants to spend $100 millon on mapping the human brain. Let's do his first. It would a low budget project as there wouldn't be anything to map.


We have to move forward with research and development projects or we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are. I happen to think this is a wonderful project which will give us a lot of info and maybe even some answers about brain injury, Alzheimer's, and other brain irregularities.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We have to move forward with research and development projects or we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are. I happen to think this is a wonderful project which will give us a lot of info and maybe even some answers about brain injury, Alzheimer's, and other brain irregularities.


Oh, for Pete's sake, let's leave out remarks like "we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are." I agree mapping the human brain is a great project, and deplore the fact that many important research projects are loosing or having their funding reduced. For example, less cancer research means more health care costs for people who have cancer, and more cancer patients who can't be cured or treated except for palliative care. That's really staying in the Dark Ages, and increases health care costs when there is so much comment given to how bad that already is.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> The right to keep and bear arms can't be taken away unless the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution is changed or removed. Some gun control laws may end up being deemed Unconstitutional if cases are brought before the Supreme court.
> 
> I welcome some reasonable gun control laws. There seems to be at least one news story a day on the local news here, and there seem to be increasing numbers of children being hit in the crossfire, or being killed on purpose. Obviously this is extremely horrible and I hope and pray something can be done to change this. It feels like the Wild West has returned, and instead of being ruled by law, we are being ruled by guns.


Seattle, in the city where I live, the parents are to blame for not being parents to their children. I would have known if one of mine had a gun--but most parents around here are too busy with themselves to watch or care for their children.

Almost weekly a small child is found roaming the streets nearly naked and luckily found my good people and not hurt. The parents are either drunk ar drugged on something and are not aware the children are outside.

One woman took her newborn to a creek where it drown needlessly as we have a law where they can take a baby to a hospital, fire station or police station and not get into trouble, but babies are still being killed!

People must wake up and stop having a baby by every person they "move" in with then when they break up, the children suffer.

I have two adopted grandchildren that this "old" heart loves dearly and am so thankful that a mother loved them enough to give them up. My heart melts when they call me "grandma" as they are one of the best things in my life!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway, 

Right on again. But, they won't stop having kids, unfortunately. I am finding that parents don't parent. It is too much work and effort for them. So, kids are entitled, spoiled and neglected.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Seattle, in the city where I live, the parents are to blame for not being parents to their children. I would have known if one of mine had a gun--but most parents around here are too busy with themselves to watch or care for their children.
> 
> Almost weekly a small child is found roaming the streets nearly naked and luckily found my good people and not hurt. The parents are either drunk ar drugged on something and are not aware the children are outside.
> 
> ...


You mention many problems that have to be addressed and solved somehow. It particularly upsets me that unwanted babies end up in garbage dumpsters, or drowned as you mention, when most cities have the law that lets people drop these babies off at a hospital, fire station or police station. And, when it comes to finding homes for unwanted babies,let's all remember that babies are the most adoptable of all children who are up for adoption.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, for Pete's sake, let's leave out remarks like "we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are." I agree mapping the human brain is a great project, and deplore the fact that many important research projects are loosing or having their funding reduced. For example, less cancer research means more health care costs for people who have cancer, and more cancer patients who can't be cured or treated except for palliative care. That's really staying in the Dark Ages, and increases health care costs when there is so much comment given to how bad that already is.


Couldn't resist. You know how it feels.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

It is sunny, fairly warm 45 so hubby wants to get out for a while so yea, outside to drive a little. So out of here for several hours.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was a cute, clever child. Now I am a woman with values and a mind of my own that I choose to express. I ask specific questions to clarify comments before firing, unlike many. You ask questions to confuse the point and attempt to embarrass others. It ain't gonna work on my watch.

I don't know anything about your troubles with the FBI. Interesting though. You must be irritating others.

The condescending remark about Chaucer for Dummies is also an ATTEMPT to appear clever. My point was that Old English can be difficult to understand because of the changes in language......but worth the effort. Your posse uses language (silly phrases, misspellings etc) to indicate that only your initiates are 'in the know.' (Notice I did not say 'in the now.')

Another misunderstanding. I never meant to indicate that I was a 'newbie.' My profile clearly indicates that I have been a contributing member for quite some time. I did change my name, as many others have, after the election last year. I thought (foolishly?) that it might make it easier to hold intelligent discussions. I did it in good faith and for legitimate reasons. If you and your crew are trying to embarrass me, it ain't gonna work.

Have a nice day. I will.



off2knit said:


> Suzi you remind me of a small child; you keep asking for more information hoping you will get the answer you want. If a person chooses not to clarify maybe they are tired of repeating themselves. And the situation has been frustrating for some of us when we were threatened to be reported to the FBI and Secret Service because it is her patriotic duty and supposedly that happened on Ravelry. But alas, no response to my who, what, when and where.
> 
> Maybe you need "Chaucer for Dummies" or this:
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO what we need are bank regulations with shark teeth, but the GOP resists anything regulatory and waters down any attempt. This is not President Obama's fault.

I don't expect to change your mind, but I do hope others will think about this and comment. Thank you.



theyarnlady said:


> good morning, how are you doing? Still want an answer last night tomy question, but no response, about housing market and the President new idea, well old Idea, from Clinton day's that cause banks (and I do think their fault to)But we know have him promising to back these banks if it happens again. We have already with taxes payers money bailed them out (meaning banks) once. Poeple who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down paymenst.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then I would think that you would definitely be against the idea of cutting government spending. Government programs are the only chance your 'friend' has.



Lukelucy said:


> My friend cannot find a job. Must loose her home and find a "room". And people say the economy is getting better. I think it is getting worse. She is destitute at 65 years old.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for folks who fall a second time for this scam..."fool me once, shame on you/fool me twice, shame on me".


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You mention many problems that have to be addressed and solved somehow. It particularly upsets me that unwanted babies end up in garbage dumpsters, or drowned as you mention, when most cities have the law that lets people drop these babies off at a hospital, fire station or police station. And, when it comes to finding homes for unwanted babies,let's all remember that babies are the most adoptable of all children who are up for adoption.


Yes, but our darling granddaughter was 2 1/2 years old but the boy was 8 months old when adopted as daughter intended to get babies both times, but when she saw the little girl, she brought her home.

She was a sickly little one at first, but today is a 15 bubbly teenager who is an A student and very well behaved. The boy has a mild learning disability, but is the kindness most gentle person who loves his grandma dearly and my heart belongs to him and her. Such joy in my life.

I also have two other grands by youngest daughter who are tops too. They all get along so well you would think they are blood related.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I too am deeply offended.



sjrNC said:


> Yes nothing about Rocky's comment about he was just exercising his second amendment rights when she replied to the post about the shooting of the Texas DA and his wife.
> 
> A flippant answer to a very sad situation, but it was the responses to it from joeysmama that was has gotten people talking.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This brings up the real problem. It must be a balanced approach to the debt.

If we ONLY cut spending, we cut off the recovery to the economy and leave the destitute in worse straits.

If we neglect to increase revenues (cutting loopholes and thereby increasing taxes to those who can most afford it) we cut off government works (Social Security, road & bridge repair etc.)



thumper5316 said:


> I agree. The economy is getting worse and all obama wants to do is spend more money. Now he wants to spend $100 millon on mapping the human brain. Let's do his first. It would a low budget project as there wouldn't be anything to map.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Couldn't resist. You know how it feels.


I know all too well, having been unable to resist the temptation myself, as I'm sure you know. I've just started to have this desire to see more space given to discussion as that's why we're here, isn't it?

Please note, I didn't get on my soap box about all the mile long quotes that result in pages and pages of this topic having a few lines of new material on them. Oops, I guess I just did get on my soap box for a minute.ops:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > So from your reasoning all shootings could be or can be justified because of the second amendment.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Calling names and not addressing the issue.



off2knit said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Rocky offends me almost every time she posts. I just put down as a sick need to have attention. I try to be kinds to those that might have mental difficulties.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do we really know what is in this bill....or any other for that matter? I'm afraid that the current extreme 
polarization in our country causes bills to die or to be changed in such a way that they will never be passed or that there will be so many loopholes that it makes the changes meaningless. So we pay our lawmakers and nothing gets done. Any opinions on this?



sjrNC said:


> http://patdollard.com/2013/04/aclu-freaks-out-over-harry-reid-gun-control-bill/
> 
> According to this article the ACLU isn't thrilled with Harry Reid's bill.
> Harry reid could bring it for a vote, the senate is controlled by dems, so they could pass it.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We have to move forward with research and development projects or we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are. I happen to think this is a wonderful project which will give us a lot of info and maybe even some answers about brain injury, Alzheimer's, and other brain irregularities.


So, you are for taking food out of the mouths of our children and elderly, leaving them to die in the streets? You want dirty water, dirty air, airports closing...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gun shows do not require a background check. This is a well-known loophole. Sellers do not KNOW all buyers like you know your neighbor......and how well do you know what your neighbor has done in the past. Has he been convicted of a violent crime before you knew him/her? What do you think? Opinions please.



thumper5316 said:


> What do you have to fear from the Republicans?
> 
> However, the democrats, who are typically in fear of guns, wouldn't applying. They'd just fearfully hide in the closet from the criminals and wait for the police to arrive...or for their Republican neighbor with their firearm.
> 
> Everyone who desires to _legally purchase a gun_ must go through a background check. If I wanted to sell a gun to a neighbor, no I wouldn't be legally required to perform a check. But you can bet that I'd have to know the persons character, training on the firearm, and intent/reason for wanting it before I would sell them one.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Out of curiosity, I decided to count how many rude, insulting and completely off-topic remarks were made between page 94 (where I left off reading last night) and this page (102). I counted 43, and did not leave my own out.
> 
> The discussions about real subjects are interesting but separated by so much irrelevant stuff it gets hard to follow any particular discussion. John Lennon wanted to give peace a chance, obviously way too difficult to accomplish. Could we please give intellectual, well-informed discussion a chance? We might actually be able to accomplish that


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I was a cute, clever child KEY WORD WAS.
> 
> Now I am a woman with values and a mind of my own that I choose to express. GREAT
> 
> ...


 THANK YOU I AM


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> he was shot because the killer was exercising his second amendment rights


Exactly. And the D.A. had said he carries AT ALL TIMES. Just because you carry doesn't mean you are not vulnerable.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When the government began mapping the gnome (DNA), a vast amount of precious information was discovered. Can mapping the brain begin to find answers and treatment for Altzheimer's? It can change the world as we know it.



alcameron said:


> We have to move forward with research and development projects or we'll be kept in the Dark Ages where the republicans are. I happen to think this is a wonderful project which will give us a lot of info and maybe even some answers about brain injury, Alzheimer's, and other brain irregularities.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> So, you are for taking food out of the mouths of our children and elderly, leaving them to die in the streets? You want dirty water, dirty air, airports closing...


Thumper, nobody wants any of those things. The problem is that looking for unnecessary spending and making budget cuts gets us just what you mentioned, plus slower or no research into other problems we have. Research may show us ways to spend less on healthcare. That would save healthcare dollars when healthcare costs are skyrocketing. Sound good? Then government income must be increased whether anyone likes it or not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seattle Soul, you are on the high road and I like your approach to finding solutions rather than repeating gripes. I'll try to join you.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

The government has an income? Good grief?

When tax payers income increase, then ask for tax increases (not a raise in income)


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> I was a cute, clever child. Now I am a woman with values and a mind of my own that I choose to express. I ask specific questions to clarify comments before firing, unlike many. You ask questions to confuse the point and attempt to embarrass others. It ain't gonna work on my watch.
> 
> I don't know anything about your troubles with the FBI. Interesting though. You must be irritating others.
> 
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Gun shows do not require a background check. This is a well-known loophole. Sellers do not KNOW all buyers like you know your neighbor......and how well do you know what your neighbor has done in the past. Has he been convicted of a violent crime before you knew him/her? What do you think? Opinions please.


That is completely, totally, categorically *wrong*. All licensed gun sellers that sell firearms at a show must do a background check before selling. It is the guy down the street that decides to set up a table at a show that is not applicable to that law. It is considered a private sale. Those I _am_ in favor of changing the laws for.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Too many of our legislators are in the pockets of the NRA.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, you are for taking food out of the mouths of our children and elderly, leaving them to die in the streets? You want dirty water, dirty air, airports closing...


There's no need for any of that, and you already know what I'm going to say. Revenue needs to be increased.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, nobody wants any of those things. The problem is that looking for unnecessary spending and making budget cuts gets us just what you mentioned, plus slower or no research into other problems we have. Research may show us ways to spend less on healthcare. That would save healthcare dollars when healthcare costs are skyrocketing. Sound good? Then government income must be increased whether anyone likes it or not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Too many of our legislators are in the pockets of the NRA.


That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That is completely, totally, categorically *wrong*. All licensed gun sellers that sell firearms at a show must do a background check before selling. It is the guy down the street that decides to set up a table at a show that is not applicable to that law. It is considered a private sale. Those I _am_ in favor of changing the laws for.


It is my understanding that at gun shows there are plenty of sellers not doing background checks. I've never been to one, but that's what I've read. I know there are gun sales online on a rather large scale that evades the background check.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Regarding Obama Administration enacting Clinton's Housing Policy. Obama does have a 7 point plan but it's not the same as Clinton's. The govt won't be backing the banks but assisting the homeowners.
To that end, the administration's plan requires participating loan servicers to reduce monthly payments to no more than 38 percent of the borrower's gross monthly income. The government would then chip in to bring payments down further, to no more than 31 percent of the borrower's monthly income. In lowering the payment, the servicer would first reduce the interest rate to as low as 2 percent. If that's not enough to hit the 31 percent threshold, they would then extend the terms of the loan to up to 40 years. If that's still not enough, the servicer would forebear loan principal at no interest. The plan does not, however, require servicers to reduce mortgage principal, which Richard Green, the director of the Lusk Center for Real Estate at USC, considers a shortcoming. "For underwater loans, if you don't write down the balance to be less than the value of the house, people still have an incentive to default," Green says. "Writing down the principal first instead of lastwhich is what [the Obama administration is] proposingmakes sense to me."
"


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


Yesterday or the day before there was a presentation from the NRA at the Press Club in Washington, DC. The audience was full of armed men roaming through the crowd, and the NRA wanted no cameras. No cameras? This is a press club. It's for the Press. Hello. The Press. Cameras. News articles. They go together.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, nobody wants any of those things. The problem is that looking for unnecessary spending and making budget cuts gets us just what you mentioned, plus slower or no research into other problems we have. Research may show us ways to spend less on healthcare. That would save healthcare dollars when healthcare costs are skyrocketing. Sound good? Then government income must be increased whether anyone likes it or not.


So, research like this is only worthwhile when the government does it? Who is going to manufacture the drugs at such time that is to be done? The government again? I know all y'all would be having hissy fits if pharmaceutical companies would be doing this for profit.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


Why is that so crazy? College campuses have armed security guards.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> The government has an income? Good grief?
> 
> When tax payers income increase, then ask for tax increases (not a raise in income)


When taxpayers stop asking for more and more and more of everything from government without paying for what they want maybe (though I doubt it) taxpayers will start to realize they have to pay more taxes or do without. Most of us understand this when it comes to our personal spending. Why can't we understand that the same applies to "public" spending?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Regarding Obama Administration enacting Clinton's Housing Policy. Obama does have a 7 point plan but it's not the same as Clinton's. The govt won't be backing the banks but assisting the homeowners.
> To that end, the administration's plan requires participating loan servicers to reduce monthly payments to no more than 38 percent of the borrower's gross monthly income. The government would then chip in to bring payments down further, to no more than 31 percent of the borrower's monthly income. In lowering the payment, the servicer would first reduce the interest rate to as low as 2 percent. If that's not enough to hit the 31 percent threshold, they would then extend the terms of the loan to up to 40 years. If that's still not enough, the servicer would forebear loan principal at no interest. The plan does not, however, require servicers to reduce mortgage principal, which Richard Green, the director of the Lusk Center for Real Estate at USC, considers a shortcoming. "For underwater loans, if you don't write down the balance to be less than the value of the house, people still have an incentive to default," Green says. "Writing down the principal first instead of lastwhich is what [the Obama administration is] proposingmakes sense to me."





thumper5316 said:


> A bad plan is still a bad plan. The government should not be in the mortgage business any more than they should be in the college loan business.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yesterday or the day before there was a presentation from the NRA at the Press Club in Washington, DC. The audience was full of armed men roaming through the crowd, and the NRA wanted no cameras. No cameras? This is a press club. It's for the Press. Hello. The Press. Cameras. News articles. They go together.


Tears of laughter are actually running down my cheeks at I read your post...who needs Korea's Little Kim when you have guys like these running around?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why is that so crazy? College campuses have armed security guards.


Some schools due have security guards, but their purpose is to quell violence within the student body, not to engage crazies with bombs and Uzis strapped to their bodies in armed shootouts.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Tears of laughter are actually running down my cheeks at I read your post...who needs Korea's Little Kim when you have guys like these running around?


Little Kim - sounds like a rapper!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We are going to suffer much more than you suggest under Obama's "laws".


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> So, research like this is only worthwhile when the government does it? Who is going to manufacture the drugs at such time that is to be done? The government again? I know all y'all would be having hissy fits if pharmaceutical companies would be doing this for profit.


No, I don't think research should be done solely by the government, but some researchers rely heavily on government grants and may have to completely stop promising research because they didn't get the money to support it. Pharmaceutical companies do a great deal of research because they have the big bucks to do it and the incentive of increased profits for inspiration. None of us knows where important breakthroughs will come from, and that makes it foolish at best to limit research outside of the pharmaceutical environment.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

17,000 - 19,000 empty, abandoned, or foreclosed homes/buildings in Cleveland according the PD on Sunday. An excellent example of the Obama recovery.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Schools must have the police or State Troopers in the school to head off any violence. That is what has become of our society...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> We are going to suffer much more than you suggest under Obama's "laws".


Which Obama laws?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry if I got the nomenclature wrong. I guess I meant private sales not gun shows.



thumper5316 said:


> That is completely, totally, categorically *wrong*. All licensed gun sellers that sell firearms at a show must do a background check before selling. It is the guy down the street that decides to set up a table at a show that is not applicable to that law. It is considered a private sale. Those I _am_ in favor of changing the laws for.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Little Kim - sounds like a rapper!


Hmm, not a bad idea if his political career ultimately fizzles. Maybe Dennis Rodman could provide him with some contacts.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> 17,000 - 19,000 empty, abandoned, or foreclosed homes/buildings in Cleveland according the PD on Sunday. An excellent example of the Obama recovery.


I think it's more an example of geographics. We don't have that situation in Dallas, Houston, Austin.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What keeps them in power except money? Ah, that is the rub.



susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Little Kim - sounds like a rapper!


There is a Lil' Kim. She was on Dancing With the Stars a few years ago.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So then was my initial statement WRONG?



alcameron said:


> It is my understanding that at gun shows there are plenty of sellers not doing background checks. I've never been to one, but that's what I've read. I know there are gun sales online on a rather large scale that evades the background check.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> We are going to suffer much more than you suggest under Obama's "laws".


Well, it's a plan actually - not a law. There hasn't been a great deal of opposition to this yet.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> 17,000 - 19,000 empty, abandoned, or foreclosed homes/buildings in Cleveland according the PD on Sunday. An excellent example of the Obama recovery.


Sounds like it's a good place to be a squatter.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> There is a Lil' Kim. She was on Dancing With the Stars a few years ago.


You are right!!! We will have to come up with a new name for him.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The press should have refused to participate.



alcameron said:


> Yesterday or the day before there was a presentation from the NRA at the Press Club in Washington, DC. The audience was full of armed men roaming through the crowd, and the NRA wanted no cameras. No cameras? This is a press club. It's for the Press. Hello. The Press. Cameras. News articles. They go together.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> There is a Lil' Kim. She was on Dancing With the Stars a few years ago.


There you go. The guy might have a great future ahead of him if he steps down now.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sounds like it's a good place to be a squatter.


Actually, if you knew when the market would be coming back, this is a good time to buy. I believe that portions of the northern part of the US have been hard in the area of manufacturing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> You are right!!! We will have to come up with a new name for him.


How about "Lil' Un"?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Elementary and high schools? I see a difference. Don't you? The amount of training involved in being ready to use a weapon is a crowded situation is considerable.



thumper5316 said:


> Why is that so crazy? College campuses have armed security guards.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Damemary, I don't think the Press knows how to refuse anything, even such a glaring contradiction at not being allowed cameras at a presentation at the Press Club.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> How about "Lil' Un"?


Hmm, after checking the latest on Yahoo I'm leaning toward a name that's more or less unprintable. Apparently He Who Shall Not Be Named ordered a medium-range missile to be moved to the east of the peninsula. Has the range to hit Guam--no wonder the US is putting up another defense system around that island.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I think it's more an example of geographics. We don't have that situation in Dallas, Houston, Austin.


No you don't, hummmmm maybe because of your tax laws don't punish job creators and your cities are not controlled by labor unions


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

All that he is trying to put through: Obamacare for one.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Elementary and high schools? I see a difference. Don't you? The amount of training involved in being ready to use a weapon is a crowded situation is considerable.


No, I don't see a difference. It's better than what they currently have.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I've seen one or two of the rightists lose it on those rare occasions when they're outnumbered in the thread. Can't remember who it was last time, but as the lefties breached the walls she she fired a last-stand volley of fiery posts, then retreated with a final cry of "Blow it out your royal nose!" on her lips. It was a pleasant but oh-so-fleeting victory.


None quite lost it like Ingrid, Northwoods gal and a few others that were banished from the site because of their attitude, nasty language and remarks. Try as you might, your "side" are not the innocents you are portraying yourselves to be.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I have as many friends as I need and want. And, as I said before, the world is my business if I decide it is. Do you know where the UK is?


Ingreid, a banished KPer, use to say she was a citizen of the world. Perhaps you know each other?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> So from your reasoning all shootings could be or can be justified because of the second amendment.
> 
> Whether said in jest or for whatever reason.
> Two people were shot, 5 children lost both of their parents.
> Don't find it or any killing something to make light of.


Add to that the fact that it was a KKK group that is behind the killings . They will continue to kill the DA's so their people can't be prosecuted. It's on the same lines as the Mafia killing everyone and their family members to get the message across.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Not to change the subject
> Kudos to Colorado and Connecticut for strengthening gun laws. Not strong enough to my liking, but a step in the right direction. In Connecticut where they have a Democratic majority and could've passed it without the repub votes, it was a bipartisan bill. They actually worked together. Maybe they could give a few lessons to the House.


The Senate needs more lessons.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> That's good to hear as long as it does not take away all the rights to bear arms. I think assult weapons should be band.
> 
> Do you know if they did anything about mental health subject. Would be good if they did something about that too.


As usual, the real problem was ignored. Tightening up already strict laws for show.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Connecticut limited ammo magazines to 10 rounds, banned ammo that can pierce armor, and will require background checks on all sales. Don't remember Colorado's---I have to look it up.


Who wears armor at school or at the movies? Must have missed something. All of this does not address the fact that to those that do not or will not obey the laws, this means absolutely nothing.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I guess we should all be glad to have you as referee. When were you appointed and by whom?


Wasn't appointed by anyone. Just sitting back and observing. Each side is blaming the other of doing exactly the same thing. I find that amusing so I made a comment.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Add to that the fact that it was a KKK group that is behind the killings . They will continue to kill the DA's so their people can't be prosecuted. It's on the same lines as the Mafia killing everyone and their family members to get the message across.


They believe it is Aryan Nation at this point. This D.A. and the prosecutor who was shot a few months ago in the same town had a history of trying Aryan Nation cases.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Who wears armor at school or at the movies? Must have missed something. All of this does not address the fact that to those that do not or will not obey the laws, this means absolutely nothing.


Police, off-duty police, some security.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not sure, maybe they thought releasing a single dog of war to nip at our heels was enough for one night.


OMG you are really something else. When propped up by your buddies you go all out. Dig after dig. Yet when your "friends" aren't around you join in with the right as though they are your "friends". You must make yourself dizzy with all that spinning. You get more action that a toilet seat in a unisex bathroom.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> What do you have to fear from the Republicans?
> 
> However, the democrats, who are typically in fear of guns, wouldn't applying. They'd just fearfully hide in the closet from the criminals and wait for the police to arrive...or for their Republican neighbor with their firearm.
> 
> Everyone who desires to _legally purchase a gun_ must go through a background check. If I wanted to sell a gun to a neighbor, no I wouldn't be legally required to perform a check. But you can bet that I'd have to know the persons character, training on the firearm, and intent/reason for wanting it before I would sell them one.


Im scared of Susan. She wants to hit me in the head with a coconut. Sorry susan but I couldn't resist.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> My friend cannot find a job. Must loose her home and find a "room". And people say the economy is getting better. I think it is getting worse. She is destitute at 65 years old.


It is really sad that almost 60% of jobs lost were by the middle class (in the private sector). The only growth is in lower wage occupations with those jobs mostly going to college grads. The lower educated/skilled workers are left unemployed. Maybe that was the intent behind raising the minimum wage, the shift in lower wage earners.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > Yes nothing about Rocky's comment about he was just exercising his second amendment rights when she replied to the post about the shooting of the Texas DA and his wife.
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe you're right, it might simplify things to simply check the would-be buyer's political affiliations then show the Republicans the door.


Try to understand what she is saying. Do you really want the government to decide if you are mentally stable or unstable? How are they going to do this? By having you fill out a form at the gun shop along with your registration?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> None quite lost it like Ingrid, Northwoods gal and a few others that were banished from the site because of their attitude, nasty language and remarks. Try as you might, your "side" are not the innocents you are portraying yourselves to be.


I'm sure none of us have ever claimed to be. We all lose our tempers and say things we later regret, but I rarely if ever see the rightists apologize or express any remorse. It's probably significant that the initial call for a truce during Lent came from several of the Democrats, and the GOPers only reluctantly fell in because their taunts were going answered during that time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Open your mind. Could there also be other reasons in addition to the one you site? The area traditionally depended on manufacturing which has been hard hit. I'm sure there are many more. Simple glib answers will not solve complex problems.

What makes a difference? Griping? Looking for solutions? Opinions please.



off2knit said:


> No you don't, hummmmm maybe because of your tax laws don't punish job creators and your cities are not controlled by labor unions


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does anyone have opinions?



thumper5316 said:


> No, I don't see a difference. It's better than what they currently have.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> They believe it is Aryan Nation at this point. This D.A. and the prosecutor who was shot a few months ago in the same town had a history of trying Aryan Nation cases.


It is absolutely of no importance whether the attacks were made by the KKK or the Aryan Nation or whatever other insane group of white supremacists are out shooting DAs and prosecutors. ALL white supremacist groups are criminally insane. ALL groups of individual races who band together in the same way the KKK did and who ADVOCATE VIOLENCE are criminally insane. They exist outside the rights granted us by the Constitution, yet we are obliged to treat them as if the they are protected by the Constitution. This is unfortunate BS. Their beliefs and actions prove they are NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS. They all need to be clamped down on as hard as possible, as quickly as possible, and in the purest, most complete adherence to the laws of the states they operate in and the laws of the US as a whole. ANYONE who supports these groups is also CRIMINALLY INSANE. There is only ONE race on this planet and it is called the human race. Let me say this as clearly as possible: THERE IS ONLY ONE RACE OF HUMAN BEINGS ON THIS WORLD AND IT IS CALLED THE HUMAN RACE. Any of you who believe otherwise are sadly mistaken and in serious need of mental health care.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I miss the passion of those ladies.



soloweygirl said:


> None quite lost it like Ingrid, Northwoods gal and a few others that were banished from the site because of their attitude, nasty language and remarks. Try as you might, your "side" are not the innocents you are portraying yourselves to be.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> OMG you are really something else. When propped up by your buddies you go all out. Dig after dig. Yet when your "friends" aren't around you join in with the right as though they are your "friends". You must make yourself dizzy with all that spinning. You get more action that a toilet seat in a unisex bathroom.


Not at all. I've never been shy about admitting I have at least some degree of respect for virtually all the ladies in the thread--yes even the GOPers. Their politics may be deplorable, but I truly admire their intelligence and wit. Many KPers shy away from this thread, but really it's one of the most interesting ones on the site--primarily because the ladies who post here are extremely perceptive and at least try to consider the issues.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I admire those who truly see themselves as citizens of the world. Perhaps we would fight famine everywhere, aid every refugee, protect every abused child with the same dedication.



soloweygirl said:


> Ingreid, a banished KPer, use to say she was a citizen of the world. Perhaps you know each other?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Do we really know what is in this bill....or any other for that matter? I'm afraid that the current extreme
> polarization in our country causes bills to die or to be changed in such a way that they will never be passed or that there will be so many loopholes that it makes the changes meaningless. So we pay our lawmakers and nothing gets done. Any opinions on this?


We could try for a clean bill. If the bill can't pass without pork, then it isn't a good bill. A bill should pass on its own merit. JMO


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, nobody wants any of those things. The problem is that looking for unnecessary spending and making budget cuts gets us just what you mentioned, plus slower or no research into other problems we have. Research may show us ways to spend less on healthcare. That would save healthcare dollars when healthcare costs are skyrocketing. Sound good? Then government income must be increased whether anyone likes it or not.


There is so much waste and fraud in government programs. There are also duplicate and at times triplicate programs all doing the exact thing. Perhaps using this money to fund programs that have stagnated because of the lack of funds would be on the right track. This money could also fund new programs and research. It could boost programs that had to make cuts in the past and bring them up to running effectively once again. (That is as effective as gov't will allow.) There would be alot of money available.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


Not when you think of the reason Lanza picked that school. In case you forgot, he picked it because it was an easy target and he could do the most damage. Not such a crazy solution after all.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> They believe it is Aryan Nation at this point. This D.A. and the prosecutor who was shot a few months ago in the same town had a history of trying Aryan Nation cases.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_Brotherhoood

By the 1990s, the Aryan Brotherhood had shifted its focus away from killing for strictly racial reasons and focused on organized crime, such as drug trafficking, prostitution and sanctioned murders.[10] They took on organized crime-like powers, and may be more powerful than the Italian crime families within the prison system.[10] For example, while incarcerated in Marion Federal Penitentiary in 1996, after being assaulted, Gambino crime family boss John Gotti allegedly asked the Aryan Brotherhood to murder his attacker. Gotti's attacker was immediately transferred to protective custody and the planned retaliation was abandoned.[8][14]
In late 2002, 29 leaders of the gang were simultaneously rounded up from prisons all over the country and brought to trial under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) Act.[10] The intention was to bring death sentences for at least 21 of them, to cut off the leadership of the gang, in a manner similar to tactics used against organized crime.[10] The case produced 30 convictions but none of the most powerful leaders received a death sentence.[10] Sentencing occurred in March 2006 for three of the most powerful leaders of the gang, including Barry Byron Mills (born 1948) and AB "lieutenant" Tyler "The Hulk" Bingham, who were indicted for numerous crimes, including murder, conspiracy, drug trafficking, and racketeering and for ordering killings and beatings from their cell.[7][15][15][16][17] Bingham and Mills were convicted of murder and sent back to United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility Prison (ADX) in Florence, Colorado where they are serving life sentences with no parole, escaping the death penalty.
Prosecuting the gang has been historically difficult, because many members are already serving life sentences with no possibility of parole, so prosecutors were seeking the death penalty for 21 of those indicted but have dropped the death penalty on all but five defendants. By September 2006, the 19 inductees not eligible for the death penalty had pled guilty.[9] The first of a series of trials involving four high level members ended in convictions in July 2006.
On 23 June 2005, after a 20-month investigation, a federal strike force raided six houses in northeastern Ohio belonging to the "Order of the Blood", a criminal organization controlled by the Aryan Brotherhood. Thirty-four Aryan Brotherhood members or associates were arrested and warrants were issued for ten more.[9]
[edit]Notable members


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Who wears armor at school or at the movies? Must have missed something. All of this does not address the fact that to those that do not or will not obey the laws, this means absolutely nothing.


What are your suggestions? If one little thing saves one life, I think it's a good thing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It is my understanding that at gun shows there are plenty of sellers not doing background checks. I've never been to one, but that's what I've read. I know there are gun sales online on a rather large scale that evades the background check.


I have been to gun shows and there is plenty of sales activity in the parking lots being done out of car trunks and the backs of trucks and this I saw in MN and other states I have visited.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ingreid, a banished KPer, use to say she was a citizen of the world. Perhaps you know each other?


No. What's your point?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual, the real problem was ignored. Tightening up already strict laws for show.


How do you propose to tighten all gun laws then?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Revenue does need increasing. Yes indeed it does! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why is that so crazy? College campuses have armed security guards.


Yes, we are going to have armed security guards in our schools starting next school. I think it is great! Maybe those who want to shoot school children will think again, but we are not safe anywhere as even our church now locks the doors with an unarmed person at the doors during our service. Nuts are everywhere including this site with some of the remarks.

I am a licensed gun carrier as there is no other way to defend myself without a handgun. No one would expect me to be "packing" a gun.

Also a member of the NRA and proud it it!

Now, jump in with both feet!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why is that so crazy? College campuses have armed security guards.


College campuses have very limited security and most are unarmed. The security is mainly there to prevent theft from campus buildings not to keep students and faculty from getting shot. Even in dormitories the only security on campuses is self locking doors and a student working at the front desk. Where are these heavily armed campuses? If they exist at all they are probably ones that have been unfortunate enough to already had some sort of mass shooting there. Giving everyone a gun is not the answer it just makes a bigger problem when everybody pulls their gun out and starts shooting. Think of how many more people would have been hit in that theater if good intentioned movie goers would have pulled their weapons out and started shooting.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Just heard on the Fox News that N Korea has just given the green light to attack America! Hang onto your hats people!

Heaven help us, in Jesus' name I pray!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Just heard on the Fox News that N Korea has just given the green light to attack America! Hang onto your hats people!
> 
> Heaven help us, in Jesus' name I pray!


I hope for everyone's sake Fox has it wrong.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Did not catch the name of the organization, but one from Texas will give shotguns to people in the worst crime areas in our city to those who pass a background check. Oh, no, more guns for bad people to steal?

Good old Joe at work?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I hope for everyone's sake Fox has it wrong.


Yes, please pray they are wrong!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.sfchronicle.com/world/article/North-Korea-military-OKd-to-attack-U-S-4408225.php


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> How do you propose to tighten all gun laws then?


We have federal, state, city, municipal, local gun laws. There must be thousands. How many do we really need? Enforce the ones already on the books instead of looking for ways to tighten them. The lawmakers are just putting on a show, fooling some into thinking they are actually working.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> There is so much waste and fraud in government programs. There are also duplicate and at times triplicate programs all doing the exact thing. Perhaps using this money to fund programs that have stagnated because of the lack of funds would be on the right track. This money could also fund new programs and research. It could boost programs that had to make cuts in the past and bring them up to running effectively once again. (That is as effective as gov't will allow.) There would be alot of ,money available.


I can remember the argument that there is waste, fraud and duplicate/triplicate government spending going on for almost 50 years. How long do you think it should take to root these problems out? Should I give the Feds another 50 years to achieve what they've been saying they want to achieve? I'd be 114 by then, and most likely long dead. BOTH parties have spouted this nonsense about the problems government spending has had to endure. I don't believe it anymore. After 50 years, I believe it's all pure grade AAA+ BS to say that there is enough waste, fraud and duplication to account for the shortage of funds for research, social welfare and infrastructure repair. I want the US to become a Social Welfare State. I want to see the fat cats pay taxes that reflect their incomes instead of getting to hide behind unfair, almost criminal IRS regulations. I want to think that the streets and highways I drive on are safe. I want every person in the richest country in the world to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat. I want a chicken in every pot and all the other things government has pretended they want us to have. Have I stated my position clearly enough? Ask what you will and I'll do my best to fill in the blanks.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> We have federal, state, city, municipal, local gun laws. There must be thousands. How many do we really need? Enforce the ones already on the books instead of looking for ways to tighten them. The lawmakers are just putting on a show, fooling some into thinking they are actually working.


How do we enforce these laws with government spending being slashed all over the place? Volunteers?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I can remember the argument that there is waste, fraud and duplicate/triplicate government spending going on for almost 50 years. How long do you think it should take to root these problems out? Should I give the Feds another 50 years to achieve what they've been saying they want to achieve? I'd be 114 by then, and most likely long dead. BOTH parties have spouted this nonsense about the problems government spending has had to endure. I don't believe it anymore. After 50 years, I believe it's all pure grade AAA+ BS to say that there is enough waste, fraud and duplication to account for the shortage of funds for research, social welfare and infrastructure repair. I want the US to become a Social Welfare State. I want to see the fat cats pay taxes that reflect their incomes instead of getting to hide behind unfair, almost criminal IRS regulations. I want to think that the streets and highways I drive on are safe. I want everyperson in the richest country in the world to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat. I want a chicken in every pot and all the other things government has pretended they want us to have. Have I stated my position clearly enough? Ask what you will and I'll do my best to fill in the blanks.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Just heard on the Fox News that N Korea has just given the green light to attack America! Hang onto your hats people!
> 
> Heaven help us, in Jesus' name I pray!


Amen.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> College campuses have very limited security and most are unarmed. The security is mainly there to prevent theft from campus buildings not to keep students and faculty from getting shot. Even in dormitories the only security on campuses is self locking doors and a student working at the front desk. Where are these heavily armed campuses? If they exist at all they are probably ones that have been unfortunate enough to already had some sort of mass shooting there. Giving everyone a gun is not the answer it just makes a bigger problem when everybody pulls their gun out and starts shooting. Think of how many more people would have been hit in that theater if good intentioned movie goers would have pulled their weapons out and started shooting.


That movie theatre was a no gun zone theatre. The reason it was picked. There was one man that was armed and thought better of taking out his gun because he might hit an innocent person during the panic. Those that are licensed to carry are trained in order to get the permit.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> http://www.sfchronicle.com/world/article/North-Korea-military-OKd-to-attack-U-S-4408225.php


This news has really upset me!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> How do we enforce these laws with government spending being slashed all over the place? Volunteers?


I suppose the same way that these new laws will be enforced.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This news has really upset me!


Some of us are sitting here on the west coast, but I don't think their weapons can reach this far. They can kill a lot of people in Seoul and can attack Guam.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Just heard on the Fox News that N Korea has just given the green light to attack America! Hang onto your hats people!
> 
> Heaven help us, in Jesus' name I pray!


Don't bother to pray. It's a waste of time in this case. If the DPRK gets going with nuclear weapons they'll island hop their way out here and all of us on the West Coast won't have time to pray. First we'll see the brightest light we'll ever see in our lifetimes and then we'll be dead. This will be unfortunate for businesses that will start harping on buying their survival supplies. How ever so too bad.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose the same way that these new laws will be enforced.


Increase taxes to pay for more monitoring? Levy a tax on all registered gun owners? What?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thanks, Andrea. Let's wait to see what others here have to say. Should be a hoot.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Gotta go still very upset thinking about our solider boys!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This news has really upset me!


Well, don't let it bother you too much. North Korean missiles can't reach farther than Guam, it's not our lives in danger but those of the folks on the Peninsula and in the Pacific.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Don't bother to pray. It's a waste of time in this case. If the DPRK gets going with nuclear weapons all of us on the West Coast won't have time to pray. First we'll see the brightest light we'll ever see in our lifetimes and then we'll be dead. This will be unfortunate for businesses that will start harping on buying their survival supplies. How ever so too bad.


North Korea can't have that many missiles--I hope?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I can remember the argument that there is waste, fraud and duplicate/triplicate government spending going on for almost 50 years. How long do you think it should take to root these problems out? Should I give the Feds another 50 years to achieve what they've been saying they want to achieve? I'd be 114 by then, and most likely long dead. BOTH parties have spouted this nonsense about the problems government spending has had to endure. I don't believe it anymore. After 50 years, I believe it's all pure grade AAA+ BS to say that there is enough waste, fraud and duplication to account for the shortage of funds for research, social welfare and infrastructure repair. I want the US to become a Social Welfare State. I want to see the fat cats pay taxes that reflect their incomes instead of getting to hide behind unfair, almost criminal IRS regulations. I want to think that the streets and highways I drive on are safe. I want everyperson in the richest country in the world to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat. I want a chicken in every pot and all the other things government has pretended they want us to have. Have I stated my position clearly enough? Ask what you will and I'll do my best to fill in the blanks.


All politicians run on a platform of getting rid the waste and fraud and once elected, seem to forget about their promise. It's nothing new, yet will continue until we the people hold them accountable.

Instead of wanting to change our great country into something else, why not just move to a socialist country. One with a true social welfare society. You will get what you want and we will get to keep what we love about this country. One of the great things about this country is that everyone is not of equal intelligence, social position, stature, etc., yet all can have a chance at greatness, can make enormous amounts of money if they desire, can just live a simple, humble life or can become President. One can achieve their dreams, but that takes work. Can you say that about a social welfare society? I think not. I bet you would be miserable in a real social welfare society.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Increase taxes to pay for more monitoring? Levy a tax on all registered gun owners? What?


The old laws are not being enforced, so why would the new laws? It is all a dog and pony show for our legislatures.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The old laws are not being enforced, so why would the new laws? It is all a dog and pony show for our legislatures.


So would you be in favor of raising taxes to have more monitoring and punishment for those who break those laws? Maybe the NRA could chip in a little.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> All politicians run on a platform of getting rid the waste and fraud and once elected, seem to forget about their promise. It's nothing new, yet will continue until we the people hold them accountable.
> 
> Instead of wanting to change our great country into something else, why not just move to a socialist country. One with a true social welfare society. You will get what you want and we will get to keep what we love about this country. One of the great things about this country is that everyone is not of equal intelligence, social position, stature, etc., yet all can have a chance at greatness, can make enormous amounts of money if they desire, can just live a simple, humble life or can become President. One can achieve their dreams, but that takes work. Can you say that about a social welfare society? I think not. I bet you would be miserable in a real social welfare society.


Well, most of the Scandinavian countries are considered to be socialist, and they have less crime, less poverty, and enjoy longer healthier lives. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, most of the Scandinavian countries are considered to be socialist, and they have less crime, less poverty, and enjoy longer healthier lives. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


Ja, ja, except for the suicide rate.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I want the US to become a Social Welfare State. GOD HELP US, SOCIALISM WORKING SO WELL IN GREECE

I want to see the fat cats pay taxes that reflect their incomes instead of getting to hide behind unfair, almost criminal IRS regulations. FAT CATS, WHO USES THAT ARCHAIC TERM ANY MORE? WHAT IS A FAT CAT? HOW CAN AN IRS REGULATION BE CRIMINAL? REGULATIONS COME FROM THE PRESIDENT AND/OR HIS APPOINTEES......... SOUNDS LIKE A QUANDARY FOR LIBS. MORE REGULATION MEANS MORE SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENT. BUT NOW IT IS A CRIMINAL SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENT OR JUST THE CRIMINAL APPOINTEES?

I want to think that the streets and highways I drive on are safe. I want every person in the richest country in the world to have a roof over their heads and enough to eat. WHO DOES NOT WANT THAT FOR PEOPLE THAT WANT TO LIVE IN A HOME, SOME CHOOSE NOT TO

I want a chicken in every pot and all the other things government has pretended they want us to have. FDR LIVES. IT SHOULD BE WHAT WE HAVE EARNED. WHEN HAS IT BECOME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS POWER TO TELL US WHAT THEY WANT US TO HAVE?

Have I stated my position clearly enough? Ask what you will and I'll do my best to fill in the blanks.[/quote]


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> North Korea can't have that many missiles--I hope?


They do have a number of missiles but only 1 nuclear missile. I think that's how the Pentagon spokesperson reported it. Even their missiles will not all be active as their testing has been hit or miss in the past. I think he is going to get everything set up, all the missiles in place, the soldiers and equipment in place and let the world stew a bit and then call off the "military exercise". He is playing games and wants to see what reaction he gets and how he is viewed (how much power he has) in the world. It's as much an information gathering exercise as a military one.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Ja, ja, except for the suicide rate.


http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Norway&displayCurrency=USD

Hope you don't like to eat chicken, eggs or drink Coke.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SS.
What I have found of Obama's New Home loan Plan:

The Atlantic Wire Business News

Dashiell Bennett/ April 3,2013

The economy is doing well, but could be doing better. So President Obama is reportedly reaching for a old idea that didn't work so well the last time. THE WASHINGTON POST reports that the administration is pushing a plan designed to encourage banks to lend money to riskier borrowers, in order to boost the housing market. The plan is designedto help young people ( who have little to no credit history)and folks whose credit may have been damaged by the recession.

Raise your hand if you see the flaw. The reason some of those people got ruined by the recession is because they were given loans they probably shouldn't have been given.A surge in shaky home loans over the last 10 years is often the first thing people think of when they think about the collapse of the economy in 2008.

The problem that President Obama is trying to solve is real concern. The housing market did collapse in the latter part of the last decade and it still hasn't clawed it's way back to where it used to be. Unemployment has come down and business is on the upswing, but even with mortgage rates at historic lows, house buying and building still drags behind. And the people missing out the most are lower-income and new home purchasers, who are missing out on the recovery. According to the National Association of Realtors, the number of first-time home buyers has declined almost ten percent.

But the reason that number's not where it was is because the market was wildly over inflated-thanks to banks giving out to much money to too many people who couldn't really afford it. It's one thing to "encourage" more lending, and quite another to pressure banks to lend to as many people as possible. And as we saw the last time round, it's almost impossible to have one without sliding into the other..

Maybe the president's plan--which includes guarantees for some loans and rules to protect banks from legal punishments if the loans go bad--can avoid some of the pitfalls of the last housing boom. But if you don't think things can get out of hand quickly, check out the Wall Street Journal story about companies using Twitter and social media connections to judge credit worthiness and then ask yourself how much faith you have in home mortgage lenders to do the right thing. Are we doomed to repeat history?

Also articles in: Wall Street Journal

The Washington Post business /Bloomberg.

Frontpage mag. com

Huffington Post Business section.

All are longer then what I have posted here.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> So would you be in favor of raising taxes to have more monitoring and punishment for those who break those laws? Maybe the NRA could chip in a little.


I would not be in favor of raising taxes. I would be in favor of actual punishment for lawbreakers, instead of a slap on the wrist. I'm not sure what you mean by monitoring, unless you mean someone watching a person break the law. I would imagine the NRA would be in favor of actual punishment for the lawbreakers. The NRA does currently hold classes on gun safety, so I could see them helping out in that area.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, most of the Scandinavian countries are considered to be socialist, and they have less crime, less poverty, and enjoy longer healthier lives. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


I could help pack your bags.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I would not be in favor of raising taxes. I would be in favor of actual punishment for lawbreakers, instead of a slap on the wrist. I'm not sure what you mean by monitoring, unless you mean someone watching a person break the law. I would imagine the NRA would be in favor of actual punishment for the lawbreakers. The NRA does currently hold classes on gun safety, so I could see them helping out in that area.


Someone has to check on gun sales, gun dealers, etc. to make sure they're following the laws. And, of course, the law-breakers will have to be punished. My point is that there's a work force involved, and I don't understand where the manpower will come from. I was being facetious when I said the NRA could chip in. They're firmly opposed to any strengthening of gun laws. They might do something to make themselves look good, but it's highly unlikely that they would really do anything to promote stricter laws.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> All politicians run on a platform of getting rid the waste and fraud and once elected, seem to forget about their promise. It's nothing new, yet will continue until we the people hold them accountable.
> 
> Instead of wanting to change our great country into something else, why not just move to a socialist country. One with a true social welfare society. You will get what you want and we will get to keep what we love about this country. One of the great things about this country is that everyone is not of equal intelligence, social position, stature, etc., yet all can have a chance at greatness, can make enormous amounts of money if they desire, can just live a simple, humble life or can become President. One can achieve their dreams, but that takes work. Can you say that about a social welfare society? I think not. I bet you would be miserable in a real social welfare society.


I'm well aware of how politicians run their campaigns. It's kind of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde deal. While running, they are all sweetness and light. Once elected, they go over to the dark side. Maybe we should pay more attention to the blatant lies politicians on both sides tell before they are elected.

As for social equality, it has never existed. It is not a part of human nature. We codify it, make it law or accepted social behavior to rein ourselves in. No matter what kind of society we live in, we have to work for a "higher" position or content ourselves to live at the bottom of the barrel.

I have no interest in living anywhere other than the good old USA. I believe we can do a lot better, and still remain the greatest nation on earth. I'm sorry you don't believe that some kinds of change can be beneficial.

During the protests against the illegal war in Vietnam their were plenty of people who said " Our country; love it or leave it." I see no reason to repeat that since it didn't work in the first place.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Guns don't kill people! People kill people with whatever they want to use. Rocks, knives, rat poision even a pillow can be used as a weapon.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Someone has to check on gun sales, gun dealers, etc. to make sure they're following the laws. And, of course, the law-breakers will have to be punished. My point is that there's a work force involved, and I don't understand where the manpower will come from. I was being facetious when I said the NRA could chip in. They're firmly opposed to any strengthening of gun laws. They might do something to make themselves look good, but it's highly unlikely that they would really do anything to promote stricter laws.


 Just because we have a new set of laws, doesn't mean we need more manpower to enforce them. We have many laws already on the books, I have said before, that are not being enforced. All of these rules are made for law abiding citizens who are obeying them. These laws are not made for the criminals. The criminals will not obey them. This is where the problem lies.


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## ewe who (Jun 9, 2012)

How will you punish the criminal who already has ahand gun and is not registered or was stolen? How about gang memebers? Will they pay taxes?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Guns don't kill people! People kill people with whatever they want to use. Rocks, knives, rat poision even a pillow can be used as a weapon.


But having access to assault weapons and ammo with a huge number of rounds (you can see I don't even know the word for it) can kill a lot of people a lot faster.


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## ewe who (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> SS.
> What I have found of Obama's New Home loan Plan:
> 
> The Atlantic Wire Business News
> ...


How nice of you thank you for the information.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just because we have a new set of laws, doesn't mean we need more manpower to enforce them. We have many laws already on the books, I have said before, that are not being enforced. All of these rules are made for law abiding citizens who are obeying them. These laws are not made for the criminals. The criminals will not obey them. This is where the problem lies.


I still think too many people have easy access to weapons. I don't know the answers, particularly with enforcing strict gun laws. I also just don't get why people have to walk around armed. I don't want to be walking among them.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jim Jones used Kool-Aid as a weapon.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> But she will not answer me and then she expects answers from anyone she questions.


I'll answer you janeway..........you know all about second amendment rights, just like you know that Jews profit from Christmas.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> But she will not answer me and then she expects answers from anyone she questions.


I've been out all day, enjoying time with my husband. I try not to obsess about this forum like you.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I want the US to become a Social Welfare State. GOD HELP US, SOCIALISM WORKING SO WELL IN GREECE
> 
> I want to see the fat cats pay taxes that reflect their incomes instead of getting to hide behind unfair, almost criminal IRS regulations. FAT CATS, WHO USES THAT ARCHAIC TERM ANY MORE? WHAT IS A FAT CAT? HOW CAN AN IRS REGULATION BE CRIMINAL? REGULATIONS COME FROM THE PRESIDENT AND/OR HIS APPOINTEES......... SOUNDS LIKE A QUANDARY FOR LIBS. MORE REGULATION MEANS MORE SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENT. BUT NOW IT IS A CRIMINAL SOCIALISTIC GOVERNMENT OR JUST THE CRIMINAL APPOINTEES?
> 
> ...


I sure hope the spirit of FDR lives. We could use the NRA, WPA and CCC right now.

Most of what you've said to me is just an attack, so I can't really respond to that. This is not me dodging your point of view. This is me NOT giving you the satisfaction of getting an ugly response to what you've said to me. I said the IRS regulations are "almost criminal". If they are actually criminal we're all in a world of hurt.

Sorry for the archaic expression. You know what a fat cat is as well as I do. If you want to engage in a civil conversation, you know what that is, too.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> good morning, how are you doing? Still want an answer last night tomy question, but no response, about housing market and the President new idea, well old Idea, from Clinton day's that cause banks (and I do think their fault to)But we know have him promising to back these banks if it happens again. We have already with taxes payers money bailed them out (meaning banks) once. Poeple who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down paymenst.


Could I have a link to this, I haven't hear anything about it.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Really... tax laws pertain to all! They were written by congress! Our elected officials. 
What is fair! I am waiting to get my taxes back from my CPA, I am sure I will owe, but I also expect him to get me all of deductions that I am legally entitled too!


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

At the risk of being ridiculed, slammed and told I'm not welcome I am going to post anyways.

I am aware that your 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bare arms, I get it, I just don't understand how so many are opposed to tightening laws in order to protect fellow beings.

I understand how important your constitution is to you, I get that. However it was also drawn up in a different time.

I'm not opposed to guns, I guess I just don't see the need. I don't understand the mentality that says I am able to carry a gun for the protection of my personal being and home - that is why we have laws and police to enforce such things. I grew up in a home where there were rifles for hunting. Guns here have to be locked up, if you take them out you are to report to the police that you are travelling with them. For the most part guns here are used for hunting. Now I'm not naieve enough to think that our system is perfect - we have problems as well. I guess it is just a different type of culture.

As far as slamming socialist countries - like any country people are proud of where they live - I see the price of eggs and chicken, etc - but I also saw what disposable income they are working with - that is what must be ke pt in mind too.

For some of us who live in other countries, we are interested in what is going on around us. I think all governments no matter where you are have issues. I know I pay considerable income taxes, etc - but those taxes also guarantee my health care, if I lose my job, I am entitled to Unemployment benefits etc. They are not handouts, I am not expecting them - they are benefits which I pay into. I've worked a long time!

There are many things I do not understand just an interested bystander who is willing to learn new things.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Thank you for your reply, I too try to ignore some of her remarks, but that one I felt was over the top.


NO one has to explain me to anyone. I was being flippant because this country and it's representatives are not doing what their constituents want. We need a vote on assault weapons, straw sales, background checks. Yet our representatives plan to filibuster or not even bring it up for a vote. I am not against guns, have several. But I do resent the politicking about laws to curtail sales of magazines. Just doesn't make sense to allow criminal to get guns, like the killer of the DA in TX.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree. The economy is getting worse and all obama wants to do is spend more money. Now he wants to spend $100 millon on mapping the human brain. Let's do his first. It would a low budget project as there wouldn't be anything to map.


Ugly as usual


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What are you talking about?
> 
> Rocky offends me almost every time she posts. I just put down as a sick need to have attention. I try to be kinds to those that might have mental difficulties.


I have exceeded my aspirations. I find anything you post to be infuriating and self righteous. No need to be "kinds". I accept you for who you are.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm not sure what additional legislation would help, if any. The current laws aren't prosecuted as stringently as they should be. And do you have ANY idea what an 'assault' weapon is? I doubt that.
> 
> I have concerns regarding the psychological portion. How are they going to determine that? Medical records check? Who will determine the guidelines as to who poses a psychological risk? A government panel? Yeah, that makes me feel MUCH better...not.


I know what an assault weapon s. AR15 are semi automatic, however with a little adjustment, it is quite fast, it tore apart 20 little children.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Husband bought a new hunting gun last week back ground check take a longer time and questions ask then one would think there is.


It took us all of 5 minutes.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That is completely, totally, categorically *wrong*. All licensed gun sellers that sell firearms at a show must do a background check before selling. It is the guy down the street that decides to set up a table at a show that is not applicable to that law. It is considered a private sale. Those I _am_ in favor of changing the laws for.


Individuals at gun shows can sell guns to private individuals without a background check.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Jim Jones used Kool-Aid as a weapon.


Yes, and then chose to end his own life by shooting himself in the head--nothing kills as quickly and easily as a bullet.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> At the risk of being ridiculed, slammed and told I'm not welcome I am going to post anyways....
> There are many things I do not understand just an interested bystander who is willing to learn new things.


Good for you for speaking your mind. This is an international forum, and it's open to everyone no matter what some people may say.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> .....
> I am aware that your 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bare arms, I get it, I just don't understand how so many are opposed to tightening laws in order to protect fellow beings.


Not being a gun owner I'm guessing at the reasoning, but I think the anti-gun control folks are worried that allowing existing laws to be tightened is but the first step toward an ultimate goal of completely eliminating private ownership. A slippery slope deal, in other words.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

To the person who said that we already have a ban on assault weapons, you are wrong. We used to. Bush let it expire.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> To the person who said that we already have a ban on assault weapons, you are wrong. We used to. Bush let it expire.


Wasn't aware of that *groan* I feel so much safer knowing that I can purchase my very own Uzi to protect myself against ravenous zombie hordes or whatever that weapon was designed to be used against. Who besides a comic book character needs something that powerful?!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

LOL Susan. What is up with all this zombie talk? I hear people talking bout it and to be honest, I can't tell if they ae serious or not.
It was unfortunate that they let the ban expire. 20 little angels would be with us today if they had kept the ban in place. didn't mean to call you on the carpet, just wanted to let these ladies know that it is expired.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL Susan. What is up with all this zombie talk? I hear people talking bout it and to be honest, I can't tell if they ae serious or not.
> It was unfortunate that they let the ban expire. 20 little angels would be with us today if they had kept the ban in place. didn't mean to call you on the carpet, just wanted to let these ladies know that it is expired.


Didn't feel that you called me up on the carpet, don't worry about it! :-D

As for the zombie stuff, I have no idea what's behind it but there do seem to be a lot of zombie video games, zombie novels, zombie movies etc etc these days. Maybe it's a fad, just as vampires were really popular five or ten years ago.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lol! :lol:


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:



> Well, most of the Scandinavian countries are considered to be socialist, and they have less crime, less poverty, and enjoy longer healthier lives. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


Yup if you like the higher incidence of drug and alcohol problems. And suicide rates. And here's the bonus point susan.... since guns are pretty much outlawed they find some very inovative and gruesome ways to dispatch themselves.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hi Bumpkins!
I remember that Jim Jones affair like it was just yesterday.
That man still haunts me to this day. That some man could gain the trust of all of those people in the name of God, and then poison them all. From what I have read it was a slow and agonizing death for those men, women, and children. He was a coward and took the easy way out.
I can honestly say I haven't drank Kool Aid since that happened.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Please are the incidents of drug and alcohol problems any greater than in other countries? 

Is your Country immune? Why are so many generalizations used? Because they are different than your ideals - does that mean to say they are wrong?

I believe it is important to keep an open mind.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Bumpkins!
> I remember that Jim Jones affair like it was just yesterday.
> That man still haunts me to this day. That some man could gain the trust of all of those people in the name of God, and then poison them all. From what I have read it was a slow and agonizing death for those men, women, and children. He was a coward and took the easy way out.
> I can honestly say I haven't drank Kool Aid since that happened.


It does seem like yesterday. I don't miss him. He was evil! Shame those innocent people believed in him. Shows we have to watch who we worship.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Yup if you like the higher incidence of drug and alcohol problems. And suicide rates. And here's the bonus point susan.... since guns are pretty much outlawed they find some very inovative and gruesome ways to dispatch themselves.


Wasn't there last year a man that went into a camp that children where attending on an Island in one of the scandinavian country and killed children who were there. Seem to recalll he had used a gun or rifle. 
So apparently it is happening over there too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Please are the incidents of drug and alcohol problems any greater than in other countries?
> 
> Is your Country immune? Why are so many generalizations used? Because they are different than your ideals - does that mean to say they are wrong?
> 
> I believe it is important to keep an open mind.


The US is not immune,Mom. We have a very large drug problem and probably an even larger alcohol problem which in the long run leads to a very large violence problem.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> At the risk of being ridiculed, slammed and told I'm not welcome I am going to post anyways.
> 
> I am aware that your 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bare arms, I get it, I just don't understand how so many are opposed to tightening laws in order to protect fellow beings.
> 
> ...


Since I live in a part of the US where there are a lot of guns for protecting livestock (wolves, bear, wild dogs, fox, copperhead snakes.......) and do a lot of hunting for the meat, I have no problems with guns. In fact, I have not heard of a gun accident in my area for years (thank you God). During hunting season, I pass many hunters with blaze hats and broken rifles and do not even blink.

What I believe gun owners are upset about is that new laws are not proven necessary because the current laws are not enforced. I would support new laws if it were proven that all the laws on the books were enforced and more was needed. But until then, I believe more gun laws are just put in place to make people feel like something is done and that is good enough. More laws will not make us safer, enforced laws would.

Also if strict gun laws worked Chicago and Detroit would be the safest cities in the country.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It does seem like yesterday. I don't miss him. He was evil! Shame those innocent people believed in him. Shows we have to watch who we worship.


I think even the word "evil" doesn't quite cover it. If devils are evil, Jones was king of them, Satan himself really. I wrote a fifty-page paper on Jonestown in college and, when finished, swore that I'd never support any of the many many politicians who supported him.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Individuals at gun shows can sell guns to private individuals without a background check.


I said the same thing. I am in agreement that those can be tightened up.

You are as ugly as always.


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

MOMTO2 said:


> At the risk of being ridiculed, slammed and told I'm not welcome I am going to post anyways.
> 
> I am aware that your 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bare arms, I get it, I just don't understand how so many are opposed to tightening laws in order to protect fellow beings.
> 
> ...


Ayn Rand says it best

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally unarmed victims. Ayn Rand.

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force. Ayn Rand.

You see once a government quits making laws then it becomes a police state. ( It has to enforce all the laws). Then law makers will be out of a job. (And believe me politicians do not want to work in the real world, that's for us peons.) So they will keep making more and more laws so they can keep their jobs.

And unfortunately for American law makers theres this little thing in their way called the constitution. They know once they can dismantle that the door is wide open. And they way to dismantle it is to start with just one little piece at a time. They say now its just assault weapons and it for everyone s good. Well a year from now they decide handguns are bad. They've already opened the door so its much easier next time.

And one last point, I can promise you there will be wording in any new regulations they pass, that will make further regulations easier to pass. Like Nancy Pelosi said they'll have to pass it before we know whats in it.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Wasn't there last year a man that went into a camp that children where attending on an Island in one of the scandinavian country and killed children who were there. Seem to recalll he had used a gun or rifle.
> So apparently it is happening over there too.


Yes and the week sandy hook happened a man in china went into a school with a butcher knife and killed a number of children.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry, I don't for a second choose to subscribe to the Ayn Rand picture of rugged individualism.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Yes and the week sandy hook happened a man in china went into a school with a butcher knife and killed a number of children.


so what is gained when all is taken away as has been done in those countrys. we can't stop people who want to harm others.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

There was a law banning assault weapons while Clinton was in office. Nobody lost their handguns or hunting rifles then. Why would they now? It's not the intention this time either.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Yes and the week sandy hook happened a man in china went into a school with a butcher knife and killed a number of children.


So are you advocating the proliferation of assault weapons because they're no more lethal than a knife?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Ayn Rand says it best
> 
> The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
> 
> ...


Thank you for stating what is the truth and what is happening here in this country. Some seem to think if they turn a blind eye that it will not happen or that the goverment can and is doing just what you have said. It won't go away, they can't see that little by little we are losing our freedoms.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I said the same thing. I am in agreement that those can be tightened up.
> 
> You are as ugly as always.


Give it a rest. Your last sentence was completely unwarranted.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

And one more point if I may for my canadian friend. Gun control is a black and white issue, you're either for it or you're against it. Politicians knew that to get some citizens on board they'd have to take our clear cut black and white 2nd amendment and muddy up the water. 

Like I said before, all they wanted was the ok from us to take out that first piece. After they got that first piece gone the rest is much easier.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Thank you for stating what is the truth and what is happening here in this country. Some seem to think if they turn a blind eye that it will not happen or that the goverment can and is doing just what you have said. It won't go away, they can't see that little by little we are losing our freedoms.


Do you really buy in to what Rand believed? You should check out some of the other things she believed in. I don't think you would be quoting her if you did.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> So are you advocating the proliferation of assault weapons because they're no more lethal than a knife?


Read my other posts I think that explains better why I'm against the ban.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Do you really buy in to what Rand believed? You should check out some of the other things she believed in. I don't think you would be quoting her if you did.


I dont have to buy in all she said. But I think those statements hold true.

I'm not like some and I consider the message not the messenger.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I'll answer you janeway..........you know all about second amendment rights, just like you know that Jews profit from Christmas.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Is there anyone here who thinks assault weapons should not be banned?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> And one more point if I may for my canadian friend. Gun control is a black and white issue, you're either for it or you're against it. Politicians knew that to get some citizens on board they'd have to take our clear cut black and white 2nd amendment and muddy up the water.
> 
> Like I said before, all they wanted was the ok from us to take out that first piece. After they got that first piece gone the rest is much easier.


Jodi it would be a much easier world for all of us if everything were simply black and white but nothing is. You can get as many different interpretations of the law as you have people. Nobody has muddied up the water. The world is many shades of grey. You are wishing for something that just does not exist.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is there anyone here who thinks assault weapons should not be banned?


Ban all of them along with the huge clips that hold so many bullits. Only the military and police need them. If I would have to shoot an intruder I would take my hunting rifle and that would do the trick very nicely.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Mom, I'm home!

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and then forks make us gain weight!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> I dont have to buy in all she said. But I think those statements hold true.
> 
> I'm not like some and I consider the message not the messenger.


The first ting you should do is check out the messenger and see what they are all about before you quote them. you could be quoting the devil.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What happens here is that you get crazy Tea Party congressmen creating all kinds of scenarios that will not happen or did not happen. Example: A man speaking for Wayne LaPierre was pushing for armed security and arming teachers in school. He used a middle school in Hastings, Minnesota as an example. He said that a gunman shot at students through a bay window from outside the school. Well, that was a great big lie. A kid brought a handgun to school to show off and it was immediately confiscated. No shots were fired. He flat out lied to get people to think that we all need guns to live in a civilized society.
You tell people that their rights are being stripped away from them. But in the long run, no rights are infringed upon.
The only right being stripped away for some is the right to live.
And don't even get me started on Ayn Rand.....


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

As I said different "gun" cultures here. I have a difficult time in believing that having a gun makes me any more safer than not.

For me it is not even a question, if they could save the lives of 20 more children by banning assault weapons and multi firing magazines from being purchased it is a law well worth it.

I do not believe for a moment that your inherent rights under the constitution will be taken away for you. The lovely part of living in a democratic country is that you have to have enough faith in the process that it will work to the benefit of all citizens.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> As I said different "gun" cultures here. I have a difficult time in believing that having a gun makes me any more safer than not.
> 
> For me it is not even a question, if they could save the lives of 20 more children by banning assault weapons and multi firing magazines from being purchased it is a law well worth it.
> 
> I do not believe for a moment that your inherent rights under the constitution will be taken away for you. The lovely part of living in a democratic country is that you have to have enough faith in the process that it will work to the benefit of all citizens.


Well put. Sadly, too many in the U.S. would just as soon go back to the 'Wild West" mentality. Hopefully, that will change and more will come to their senses.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do you have some examples? Thank you.


Yes, it would be helpful if you could give some specific examples to help us understand.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ooops, sorry for the double post.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There has been waste, but there is need. What about programs for soldiers returning from deployment? Elderly with insufficient resources to live? HeadStart to give youngsters a....head start. (Talk about a well named program.) I'm ready to do my part.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Revenue does need increasing. Yes indeed it does! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> There has been waste, but there is need. What about programs for soldiers returning from deployment? Elderly with insufficient resources to live? HeadStart to give youngsters a....head start. (Talk about a well named program.) I'm ready to do my part.


Amen, damemary!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Isn't training like how to handle and care for a gun, gun safety etc different than training to shoot in conflict? There is a huge difference between them.



soloweygirl said:


> That movie theatre was a no gun zone theatre. The reason it was picked. There was one man that was armed and thought better of taking out his gun because he might hit an innocent person during the panic. Those that are licensed to carry are trained in order to get the permit.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

How about crooked doctors not overbilling medicare or falsely billing medicare? Lots can be saved there, too! Let's not forget our abandoned veterans. Too many of them are homeless.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds good to me.



susanmos2000 said:


> Well, most of the Scandinavian countries are considered to be socialist, and they have less crime, less poverty, and enjoy longer healthier lives. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> So are you advocating the proliferation of assault weapons because they're no more lethal than a knife?


No I'm saying you have no right to lay Adam Lanza's guilt at my feet.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Sorry, I don't for a second choose to subscribe to the Ayn Rand picture of rugged individualism.


Color me surprised.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

but people with assault weapons can kill hundreds in a minute. Give them a rock to work out their aggressions.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Guns don't kill people! People kill people with whatever they want to use. Rocks, knives, rat poision even a pillow can be used as a weapon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But doesn't the problem return to having adequate, trained manpower to enforce it?



soloweygirl said:


> Just because we have a new set of laws, doesn't mean we need more manpower to enforce them. We have many laws already on the books, I have said before, that are not being enforced. All of these rules are made for law abiding citizens who are obeying them. These laws are not made for the criminals. The criminals will not obey them. This is where the problem lies.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is there anyone here who thinks assault weapons should not be banned?


What is your definition of 'assault weapon'?


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

http://www.surenews.com/political/15-year-old-girl-leaves-anti-gun-politicians-speechless.htm

Cant argue this.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> There has been waste, but there is need. What about programs for soldiers returning from deployment? Elderly with insufficient resources to live? HeadStart to give youngsters a....head start. (Talk about a well named program.) I'm ready to do my part.


Head Start has been shown to be ineffective.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> but people with assault weapons can kill hundreds in a minute. Give them a rock to work out their aggressions.


No, lets give you a rock and see how safe it makes you feel


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> No, lets give you a rock and see how safe it makes you feel


And a tin can with a string to call the police when they are confronted in their homes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We have to start somewhere. In your case with a criminal has a stolen gun, we have to arrest him when he commits a crime. Besides burglary with a deadly weapon, he is charged with the felonies of stealing a gun, non-registered weapon, and anything else we can throw at him. Now we work on punishment. It won't cure everything quickly but.....we have to start somewhere. (How's that for a circular construction?)



ewe who said:


> How will you punish the criminal who already has ahand gun and is not registered or was stolen? How about gang memebers? Will they pay taxes?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Rock are pretty dangerous. Still stoning over seas. Watch the news. Maybe rocks need to be outlawed too.:[


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But Jim Jones, nut that he was, did not serve the Kool-Aid to an elementary school of innocents.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Jim Jones used Kool-Aid as a weapon.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Head Start was and still is in some states a sucessful program. 
"No Child Left Behind" was a huge failure.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> But Jim Jones, nut that he was, did not serve the Kool-Aid to an elementary school of innocents.


I don't know what you are getting at but there where kids there with Jim Jones. I don't want babies killed by a gun or abortion. You should know that about me by now.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we have much to learn from our neighbor to the North. It is about having your needs met. Right now in the USA most bankruptcies are caused my medical issues.....some even partially covered by insurance.



MOMTO2 said:


> At the risk of being ridiculed, slammed and told I'm not welcome I am going to post anyways.
> 
> I am aware that your 2nd Amendment gives you the right to bare arms, I get it, I just don't understand how so many are opposed to tightening laws in order to protect fellow beings.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

If you guys really cared about our kids you'd want to outlaw swimming pools. A lot more kids unneccesarily drowned in pools than are killed by assault weapons. Same with young drivers. If making them wait till their 18 to drive would save 5000 lives would you be for it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Head Start has been shown to be ineffective.


Not true. It has been an extremely effective program in preparing kids for school. They are already prepared to learn and and do much better than children who have not had it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Sorry, I don't for a second choose to subscribe to the Ayn Rand picture of rugged individualism.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No assault weapons.



alcameron said:


> Is there anyone here who thinks assault weapons should not be banned?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Did you know there are more people killed by abortion than by guns? Do you need the web site? I will more that happy to look it up.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> If you guys really cared about our kids you'd want to outlaw swimming pools. A lot more kids unneccesarily drowned in pools than are killed by assault weapons. Same with young drivers. If making them wait till their 18 to drive would save 5000 lives would you be for it?


Your comparing these things is like apples to oranges. No one tried to drown kids or kill themselves in a car. What is done with a gun is a terrible act of violence carried out by one person on others. Not the same at all.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know there are more people killed by abortion than by guns? Do you need the web site? I will more that happy to look it up.


What is your point?


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Your comparing these things is like apples to oranges. No one tried to drown kids or kill themselves in a car. What is done with a gun is a terrible act of violence carried out by one person on others. Not the same at all.


But it would save lives. Are you saying their lives arent as worthy? You only want to save the ones that get killed by guns?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Not true. It has been an extremely effective program in preparing kids for school. They are already prepared to learn and and do much better than children who have not had it.


All positive benefits have been shown to have been completely negated by 3rd grade.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What is your point?


My point is is that abortion kills more people that guns. If you don't want killing the innocent then stop the killing of babies before they are born. Abortion kills more people than people killing people with guns.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

The Top Five Causes Of Unintentional Injury involving children:

1. Car Accidents: Kill 260,000 children a year and injure about 10 million children. They are the leading cause of death among children and a leading cause of child disability.&#8232;   

&#8232;2. Drowning: Kills more than 175,000 children annually. Up to 3 million children each year survive a drowning incident. Due to brain damage in some survivors, nonfatal drowning has the highest average lifetime health and economic impact of any type of child injury. &#8232;

   &#8232;3. Burns: Fire-related burns kill nearly 96,000 children a year. &#8232;

4. Falls: Nearly 47,000 children fall to their deaths every year, but hundreds of thousands more children sustain serious injuries from a fall. &#8232;   

&#8232;5. Poisoning: More than 45,000 children die each year from unintended poisoning.&#8232;


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> No, lets give you a rock and see how safe it makes you feel


Jodi your statement makes no sense. Obviously you can kill someone much more easily with a gun than you can a rock. Also you can kill a lot more people very quickly with an automatic weapon. That is why I would use a legal hunting rifle to stop an intruder. I don't need a handgun or an assult weapon. The rifle would do the job. Fact is handguns are used more frequently to kill someone related to the owner than to be used to protect against a stranger. Also used in suicides.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What is your point?


If 'life' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why aren't those women who give birth prematurely arrested for attempted manslaughter? If 'lie' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why do insurance companies pay out so much money on pre-birth procedures and premature birth preventatives?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> The Top Five Causes Of Unintentional Injury involving children:
> 
> 1. Car Accidents: Kill 260,000 children a year and injure about 10 million children. They are the leading cause of death among children and a leading cause of child disability.
> 
> ...


Jodi these are unintentional deaths not at all the same as intentional act of murder using a gun. You can't compare the two.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jodi your statement makes no sense. Obviously you can kill someone much more easily with a gun than you can a rock. Also you can kill a lot more people very quickly with an automatic weapon. That is why I would use a legal hunting rifle to stop an intruder. I don't need a handgun or an assult weapon. The rifle would do the job. Fact is handguns are used more frequently to kill someone related to the owner than to be used to protect against a stranger. Also used in suicides.


So, the ease of the killing makes a difference? And, just for your information, automatic weapons have been illegal since 1934


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

I think your title proves it - "accidental" there is nothing accidental about someone going in with a gun and firing 150 bullets!

Sorry for me, this is a no brainer. For me personally guns and gun ownership is not the answer


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jodi these are unintentional deaths not at all the same as intentional act of murder using a gun. You can't compare the two.


Given your criteria abortion would top the list of intentional and it's completely legal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What a ridiculous question! If a woman miscarries, she should be tried for manslaughter? That's realy reaching.
Much different than a planned termination, which is still legal in this country whether we agree with it or not.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How about crooked doctors not overbilling medicare or falsely billing medicare? Lots can be saved there, too! Let's not forget our abandoned veterans. Too many of them are homeless.


So, let's make practicing medicine illegal. They might bill falsely.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> If 'life' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why aren't those women who give birth prematurely arrested for attempted manslaughter? If 'lie' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why do insurance companies pay out so much money on pre-birth procedures and premature birth preventatives?


I still don't get your point. Are you saying that children being shot to death is the equal to abortion? If that is what you believe I think you are wrong to compare the two. I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body. I would agree that if there is premature labor both mother and child should tried to be saved if the child is able to live outside the mother's body otherwise what would you be saving?


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

A gun can be used to save lives. How many lives have been saved by a swimming pool?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> But it would save lives. Are you saying their lives arent as worthy? You only want to save the ones that get killed by guns?


What would you do to save the lives of children who die accidently that is not already being done?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

A gun can save a life just like one can kill a life. A gun can be used to protect the innocent kids too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> A gun can be used to save lives. How many lives have been saved by a swimming pool?


You can't compare the two. A swimming pool is not a gun. Pools are used for recreation and unfortunately accidents happen. Use of a gun is an intentional act to do harm to another. When I jump in a pool I am not trying to kill myself or others.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> If 'life' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why aren't those women who give birth prematurely arrested for attempted manslaughter? If 'lie' doesn't start until the 'person' is viable outside the uterus then why do insurance companies pay out so much money on pre-birth procedures and premature birth preventatives?


If there's no difference between the unborn and the born then why are rightists so willing to forgive women who've had abortions? Even a die-hard fundamentalist will take them to his or her bosom and grant them absolution--very different than the diabolical punishments suggested for the Susan Smiths of this world.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I still don't get your point. Are you saying that children being shot to death is the equal to abortion? If that is what you believe I think you are wrong to compare the two. I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body. I would agree that if there is premature labor both mother and child should tried to be saved if the child is able to live outside the mother's body otherwise what would you be saving?


Really you use age to judge the value of a life? Id love to hear you say that to a mother whose 1 year old has just died?

IHows that go " oh well its not like they were 5 or 6."

I got you now you really dont care about the children your just using their deaths to further your agenda.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> A gun can be used to save lives. How many lives have been saved by a swimming pool?


Once agian, you are comparing apples to oranges. Drownings are accidental, so are children who are killed with guns that their parents are too negligent to lock up.
Mass murders are a different story all together. Tey are intentional.
When was the last time you heard or read of a mass murder by swimming pool?
Guns also take lives in the forms of murder.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What a ridiculous question! If a woman miscarries, she should be tried for manslaughter? That's realy reaching.
> Much different than a planned termination, which is still legal in this country whether we agree with it or not.


Oh, so intentionally terminating makes it so much better than miscarrying? Got it. Intentional murder, ok. Natural death, manslaughter.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

My 5 year old grandson could understand about a gun and how it can save his life from someone evil.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> A gun can save a life just like one can kill a life. A gun can be used to protect the innocent kids too.


I totally agree with you but we need to figure out how to stop the senseless murder of innocent children in these mass murders. If the killer in Newtown had a handgun instead of the weapon he used he may have killed a couple people before being stopped. That would have made a huge difference. Don't you agree?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I still don't get your point. Are you saying that children being shot to death is the equal to abortion? If that is what you believe I think you are wrong to compare the two. I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body. I would agree that if there is premature labor both mother and child should tried to be saved if the child is able to live outside the mother's body otherwise what would you be saving?


What differentiation between dead and dead are you drawing?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Oh, so intentionally terminating makes it so much better than miscarrying? Got it. Intentional murder, ok. Natural death, manslaughter.


I did not say that. You did. A woman who is looking forward to or not looking forward to having her baby and miscarries (which happens more than you may think) should not be charged with manslaughter. Go back and read what you wrote again and you will see where I am coming from. A miscarriage can be caused by stress, weak uterine lining, etc.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Really you use age to judge the value of a life? Id love to hear you say that to a mother whose 1 year old has just died?
> 
> IHows that go " oh well its not like they were 5 or 6."
> 
> I got you now you really dont care about the children your just using their deaths to further your agenda.


Well stated.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Really you use age to judge the value of a life? Id love to hear you say that to a mother whose 1 year old has just died?
> 
> IHows that go " oh well its not like they were 5 or 6."
> 
> I got you now you really dont care about the children your just using their deaths to further your agenda.


Jodi - I don't have an agenda. You were speaking of unborn fetuses not 1 year olds. I do think it is more important to save the lives of children who are already born so a 1 year old would be just as important as a 5 or 6 year old. A fetus is very different matter.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Well stated.


I didn't say that Jodi. Please read again what I wrote.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And a tin can with a string to call the police when they are confronted in their homes.


Amen!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I did not say that. You did. A woman who is looking forward to or not looking to having her baby and miscarries (which happens more than you may think) should not be charged with manslaughter. Go back and read what you wrote again and you will see where I am coming from.


So, the difference is if the unborn is wanted or not wanted. If it's wanted then it's not manslaughter and if it's not wanted it is manslaughter. Or do I have it backwards?


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You can't compare the two. A swimming pool is not a gun. Pools are used for recreation and unfortunately accidents happen. Use of a gun is an intentional act to do harm to another. When I jump in a pool I am not trying to kill myself or others.


But if it saves the life of children shouldn't we do all we can. Who are you to decide which is an ok way for a child to die. You could save 1000s more lives. What about alcohol use. That's intentional. You just want to play God. And are doing it on the graves of these children while you say other preventable deaths are ok because they just happen.

You dont care about them and shame on you acting like you do. There are always people like you. You are willing to sacrifice 100, 000 's of lives cause they die in a way you approve of.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

It is the people that kill people not the guns. Maybe we should teach people right from wrong. Put God back in the schools and have deciplpline in the schools. Take care of the mental people . That would help. When we were growing up people weren't murdering people like now. Maybe we need to put God back into everything. Since God has been removed it has all gone to hell.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I still don't get your point. Are you saying that children being shot to death is the equal to abortion? If that is what you believe I think you are wrong to compare the two. I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body. I would agree that if there is premature labor both mother and child should tried to be saved if the child is able to live outside the mother's body otherwise what would you be saving?


Why, then, can someone be charged with double murder when the person they murder is pregnant?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My 5 year old grandson could understand about a gun and how it can save his life from someone evil.


But would you want him playing with one and accidentily shoot himself or someone else? Knowing what a gun can do is a good thing but I wouldn't want a 5 year old having access to one.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, the difference is if the unborn is wanted or not wanted. If it's wanted then it's not manslaughter and if it's not wanted it is manslaughter. Or do I have it backwards?


You don't have it all Thumper. That is not my opinion, it's yours.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, the difference is if the unborn is wanted or not wanted. If it's wanted then it's not manslaughter and if it's not wanted it is manslaughter. Or do I have it backwards?


Yes--just as a woman is free to have her tubes tied, but if a surgeon does it without her permission it's legally considered mutilation.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why, then, can someone be charged with double murder when the person they murder is pregnant?


That's one to ask a lawmaker.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why, then, can someone be charged with double murder when the person they murder is pregnant?


That is not always true. Their is potential life there but if it is not viable then I would not consider it a double murder. You could then carry that further and say that the victim had eggs in her ovaries and they were murdered to. Does that make sense?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You don't have it all Thumper. That is not my opinion, it's yours.


Really, I'm just trying to understand your opinion. You're all over the map. Infants are valued when it's this and not valued when it's that. Make up your mind, woman!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> But would you want him playing with one and accidentily shoot himself or someone else? Knowing what a gun can do is a good thing but I wouldn't want a 5 year old having access to one.


No you know I don't want a five year old playing with one. I have grown up around guns so have my kids and 5 grandkids. They have to be taught not to play with guns and not be left around for them to play with.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Goodnight, going to bed!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> But would you want him playing with one and accidentily shoot himself or someone else? Knowing what a gun can do is a good thing but I wouldn't want a 5 year old having access to one.


Good thing he's 5. According to certain individuals here before that age he's of less value than those of that age or over.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Really, I'm just trying to understand your opinion. You're all over the map. Infants are valued when it's this and not valued when it's that. Make up your mind, woman!


Then make up your own mind about where you stand on the death penalty. Most rightists say that all life is sacred--unless someone does something to forfeit it, like murder or treason. And that's a subjective judgment if I ever heard one.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Really, I'm just trying to understand your opinion. You're all over the map. Infants are valued when it's this and not valued when it's that. Make up your mind, woman!


I can't understand what you don't get. 99% of miscarriages are not intentional, therefore how can it be manslaughter? If the body rejects the pregnancy, it's not an intention of the woman carrying it. Most women are devestated when they miscarry. Why should she be charged? 
Answer that for me. And I never said one infant had more value than the other.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is the people that kill people not the guns. Maybe we should teach people right from wrong. Put God back in the schools and have deciplpline in the schools. Take care of the mental people . That would help. When we were growing up people weren't murdering people like now. Maybe we need to put God back into everything. Since God has been removed it has all gone to hell.


We have separation of church and state in our country. Children should be taught morals in the home and in their church. When they go to school they should already know right from wrong don't you agree? I agree with the discipline being too lax these days but once again you have to start that at home so kids will behave for the teachers. Then teachers can teach. I think our world is a much more violent place and I agree it is scary but it all begins in the home.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--just as a woman is free to have her tubes tied, but if a surgeon does it without her permission it's legally considered mutilation.


Susan, if you really think about what you've just said, it's totally warped. So, if I were pregnant and wanted to surgically mutilate the 'thing' so that it would be malformed when it was born I would be within my rights?


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I didn't say that Jodi. Please read again what I wrote.


 I disagree. A life is a life. So in your opinion anyone on life support or anyone that cant survive without help from another person their life ddoesn't hold value life someone who can.

You know that one of the first senses that a fetus develops is hearing. You do realize they hear their own abortion dont you.

If a one celled organism was found on mars itd be considered life.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Good thing he's 5. According to certain individuals here before that age he's of less value than those of that age or over.


thumper please read what I wrote. That is not what I said.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can't understand what you don't get. 99% of miscarriages are not intentional, therefore how can it be manslaughter? If the body rejects the pregnancy, it's not an intention of the woman carrying it. Most women are devestated when they miscarry. Why should she be charged?
> Answer that for me. And I never said one infant had more value than the other.


You're right. You're not getting the point I'm trying to get across.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Susan, if you really think about what you've just said, it's totally warped. So, if I were pregnant and wanted to surgically mutilate the 'thing' so that it would be malformed when it was born I would be within my rights?


Can you read, Thumper? She was talking about having fallopian tubes tied, not fetus mutilation. If a woman chooses sterilization by tube tying it's her choice.But if a doctor does the procedure without her permission it is considered mutilation. Let's see how long it takes you to twist this all around.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We have separation of church and state in our country. Children should be taught morals in the home and in their church. When they go to school they should already know right from wrong don't you agree? I agree with the discipline being too lax these days but once again you have to start that at home so kids will behave for the teachers. Then teachers can teach. I think our world is a much more violent place and I agree it is scary but it all begins in the home.


But there are people who dont have the capacity to learn right from wrong. And people who dont care what s right or wrong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You're right. You're not getting the point I'm trying to get across.


Good let's leave it at that.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> thumper please read what I wrote. That is not what I said.


"I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body."

That is what you said. What does that say about your view of those under that age?

In all reality even a 5 year-old cannot exist outside the body without complete dependency on others. What you stated is very callous.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins,
I respect your beliefs when it comes to abortion. 
Just wanted to make sure you know that. And though we disagree in politics I appreciate the way you respond to posts in an unantogonistic way. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Country Bumpkins,
> I respect your beliefs when it comes to abortion.
> Just wanted to make sure you know that.


Thanks Patty you know it is my heart. Love those babies. Glad you are back. I missed you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Missed you too


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Susan, if you really think about what you've just said, it's totally warped. So, if I were pregnant and wanted to surgically mutilate the 'thing' so that it would be malformed when it was born I would be within my rights?


Ridiculous example--no ethical surgeon would mutilate anyone just because he or she asked them to.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> "I value the life of a child who is 4 or 5 years old more than I do the life of a fetus who cannot even exist outside it's mother's body."
> 
> That is what you said. What does that say about your view of those under that age?
> 
> In all reality even a 5 year-old cannot exist outside the body without complete dependency on others. What you stated is very callous.


Question cheeky blighter are you from anywhere around Liverpool? Are you in anyway involved in Liverpool Pathways? Didn't they euthanize about 170, 000 people last year? Dont they, like you, value life according to what they have to contribute to society. And if their life is of no benefit to society they are euthanized.

You know eventually that could be your mom or dad. Or maybe even (God forbid) a child that's received brain damage in a swimming or car accident.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> I disagree. A life is a life. So in your opinion anyone on life support or anyone that cant survive without help from another person their life ddoesn't hold value life someone who can.
> 
> You know that one of the first senses that a fetus develops is hearing. You do realize they hear their own abortion dont you.
> 
> If a one celled organism was found on mars itd be considered life.


So if abortion ever become illegal again are you in favor of the death penalty for the woman who manage to have them anyway? In your view would these women be considered as guilty as those who knowingly drown their three- and four-year olds in the bathtub?


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So if abortion ever become illegal again are you in favor of the death penalty for the woman who manage to have them anyway? In your view would these women be considered as guilty as those who knowingly drown their three- and four-year olds in the bathtub?


Yes.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ridiculous example--no ethical surgeon would mutilate anyone just because he or she asked them to.


Susan, I did not see where you called any fetus or baby a "thing". Is there invisible ink in this forum? lol
I had a premature birth with my daughter. She tried coming 10 weeks early. I was in and out of the hospital and 3 1/2 weeks before she her due date they couldn't stop the contractions. I had an emergency C section. She was born blue with one lung collapsed and the other filled with liquid. I was told there was an ambulance on the way from the University of Minnesota and that her chances were slim and none. I was heart broken.
There were so many doctors and nurses around and the anesthesia was still working. They shot me up with demoral and my OB said he was sorry for "mutilating" my body by leaving a scar from the C section. I thanked him for trying to save my baby's life. He actually used the word mutilate. I did sign the consent form for the section in the elevator on the wat to the delivery room. When I woke up again, the pediatricians told me that my daughter was just fine and didnt have to go down to the U neo natal care. She was in an incubator with a tube for 3 hours to help expand her lungs. After that she was breathing on her own.
Now I ask, should I be in jail for attempted manslaughter because my baby was premature?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Yes.


Wow! OK, at least you're not a hypocrite--I respect that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan, I did not see where you called any fetus or baby a "thing". Is there invisible ink in this forum?


No, just a lot of GOP word twisting. A page or two back someone wondered how long it would take the rightists to twist things around--answer: about 60 seconds.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ridiculous example--no ethical surgeon would mutilate anyone just because he or she asked them to.


They do it, by calling it abortion, every day. It's just acceptable to you by calling it that.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Jodif77 said:


> Yes.


Whats the difference between what adam lanza did and what an abortion does. They both steal a future from someone else. Violently. Kid s know from about the age of 8 how to prevent pregnancy. Its making someone else pay for your mistake with their chance at life. Whose that not fair for?

No one should be granted power over anothers life. Not at the 20 years old or 20 days old.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I gave my doctor the power over my life and that of my daughter.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Whats the difference between what adam lanza did and what an abortion does. They both steal a future from someone else. Violently. Kid s know from about the age of 8 how to prevent pregnancy. Its making someone else pay for your mistake with their chance at life. Whose that not fair for?
> 
> No one should be granted power over anothers life. Not at the 20 years old or 20 days old.


Well, once again you're a rare breed--the anti-abortionist without a hypocritical bone in his or her body. Frankly I'm not sure how to respond to your statements now.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thankfully, at the present time it appears that the NK don't have a delivery system to reach the US mainland west coast.

But knowing this does not eliminate the future threat.


alcameron said:


> Some of us are sitting here on the west coast, but I don't think their weapons can reach this far. They can kill a lot of people in Seoul and can attack Guam.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thankfully, at the present time it appears that the NK don't have a delivery system to reach the US mainland west coast.
> 
> But knowing this does not eliminate the future threat.


I think this situation is very scary. I can see him capriciously deciding on a whim that it was time to wield some power. They can reach Seoul very easily and kill a ton of people. And what's our military presence in South Korea? 28,000 of our military people? Not sure . . .


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan, I did not see where you called any fetus or baby a "thing". Is there invisible ink in this forum? lol
> I had a premature birth with my daughter. She tried coming 10 weeks early. I was in and out of the hospital and 3 1/2 weeks before she her due date they couldn't stop the contractions. I had an emergency C section. She was born blue with one lung collapsed and the other filled with liquid. I was told there was an ambulance on the way from the University of Minnesota and that her chances were slim and none. I was heart broken.
> There were so many doctors and nurses around and the anesthesia was still working. They shot me up with demoral and my OB said he was sorry for "mutilating" my body by leaving a scar from the C section. I thanked him for trying to save my baby's life. He actually used the word mutilate. I did sign the consent form for the section in the elevator on the wat to the delivery room. When I woke up again, the pediatricians told me that my daughter was just fine and didnt have to go down to the U neo natal care. She was in an incubator with a tube for 3 hours to help expand her lungs. After that she was breathing on her own.
> Now I ask, should I be in jail for attempted manslaughter because my baby was premature?[/quote What a miracle Patty! PTL


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I think this little punk in North Korea needs to be taken down a few rungs. It won't be just the US that feels threatened.The rest of the world (with a few minor exceptions) won't put up with him. We should send a few drones after him...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes, CB, she is my miracle baby. And she is still a little fighter with a daughter of her own now.


----------



## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Most women can have 13 to 17 pregnancies in their reproductive lifetime.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Love Ayn Rand



alcameron said:


> Sorry, I don't for a second choose to subscribe to the Ayn Rand picture of rugged individualism.


 :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am off to a nice hot bath and then to bed. Have a good night ladies!


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, once again you're a rare breed--the anti-abortionist without a hypocritical bone in his or her body. Frankly I'm not sure how to respond to your statements now.


Well if you think of it in terms of capital punishment. That is reserved for serial murderers and the most heinous of crimes. If you have a woman that has aborted 20 children or one that gets late term abortions then she obviously she has a callous disregard for life. Those babies can survive outside the womb. They often cry during the procedure. How can that not be a punishable crime. If that was done to puppies there'd be outrage. But I'm sure with our current judiciary system most women would just do jail time.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Someone asked me earlier what my definition of an assault weapon was. I have to tell you that the only time I was anywhere near any kind of gun was when I was a little girl and liked playing with a cap gun. Although my immediate family didn't hunt, I have a lot of relatives who do. They had rifles formdeer hunting in gun safes. When you grow up in Northern Minnesota you know a ton of hunters. 
This little story is to tell you that to me an assault weapon is a type of gun (I'm sure that's the wrong word, too) that fires multiple rounds or that reloads automatically. And that's what I know.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Dead is Dead



damemary said:


> But Jim Jones, nut that he was, did not serve the Kool-Aid to an elementary school of innocents.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tactic is called diversion.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know there are more people killed by abortion than by guns? Do you need the web site? I will more that happy to look it up.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> All positive benefits have been shown to have been completely negated by 3rd grade.


All positive benefits have been shown to have been completely negated by 3rd grade unless children who participated in the Head Start program had the support of their parents before and after 3rd grade.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

More attempts at diversion.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Your comparing these things is like apples to oranges. No one tried to drown kids or kill themselves in a car. What is done with a gun is a terrible act of violence carried out by one person on others. Not the same at all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The point is to try to change the subject because they have no real argument.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> What is your point?


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I gave my doctor the power over my life and that of my daughter.


Whats your point?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Don't look behind the curtain." Wizard of OZ



Jodif77 said:


> But it would save lives. Are you saying their lives arent as worthy? You only want to save the ones that get killed by guns?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bull feathers.



thumper5316 said:


> All positive benefits have been shown to have been completely negated by 3rd grade.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Those would be very isolated cases as the research has shown it to be a failure. If it works in some state then let that state choose to fund the program. It was found to be no more than a glorified baby sitting program which would be better done by young baby sitters.



BrattyPatty said:


> Head Start was and still is in some states a sucessful program.
> "No Child Left Behind" was a huge failure.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There is the well known fact that swimming pools save swimmers from being eaten by sharks. Let's stop this foolishness.



Jodif77 said:


> A gun can be used to save lives. How many lives have been saved by a swimming pool?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jodi it would be a much easier world for all of us if everything were simply black and white but nothing is. You can get as many different interpretations of the law as you have people. Nobody has muddied up the water. The world is many shades of grey. You are wishing for something that just does not exist.


Most members of the Supreme Court have been strict constructionists. For them, the Constitution is black and white. Thank God for those strict constructionists. Without them we would already have lost the Bill of Rights if not the entire Constitution.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And what might have happened if the principal being trained in it's use had had a hand gun???



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I totally agree with you but we need to figure out how to stop the senseless murder of innocent children in these mass murders. If the killer in Newtown had a handgun instead of the weapon he used he may have killed a couple people before being stopped. That would have made a huge difference. Don't you agree?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you try hard enough to confuse an issue, we all have it backwards. We're trying to understand each other and suggest possible solutions. Of course some people just like to pretend they know something.



thumper5316 said:


> So, the difference is if the unborn is wanted or not wanted. If it's wanted then it's not manslaughter and if it's not wanted it is manslaughter. Or do I have it backwards?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In Arizona, yes.



thumper5316 said:


> Why, then, can someone be charged with double murder when the person they murder is pregnant?


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> The point is to try to change the subject because they have no real argument.


No the point is if you truly want to save the most lives you change the things that take the most lives. Otherwise you are really only concerned with power.

Those are all preventable deaths. The fact you only care about gun deaths puzzles me.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Tactic is called diversion.


Suzi we were having a conversation not a diversion.


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> And what might have happened if the principal being trained in it's use had had a hand gun???


John Wayne Gacy never used a gun and he killed 33.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The original discussion was about gun violence and propose reasonable steps to control it. The attempts to confuse the debate by adding abortion are feeble attempts to bore us to death. Won't work. We know what you're doing.



Jodif77 said:


> No the point is if you truly want to save the most lives you change the things that take the most lives. Otherwise you are really only concerned with power.
> 
> Those are all preventable deaths. The fact you only care about gun deaths puzzles me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When you introduce a new issue which does nothing to clarify the issue....to a discussion...you are admitting that you have nothing pertinent on the subject to add. That is called a diversion.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Suzi we were having a conversation not a diversion.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitish said:


> Most women can have 13 to 17 pregnancies in their reproductive lifetime.


Yes, isn't the Duggar family working on baby #20 now?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Whatever Suzi I am not going to argue with you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, isn't the Duggar family working on baby #20 now?


Susan I think that woman lost the last baby but now the son is having a try at it. God help them. Three was enough for me. I hope suzi doesn't get mad at you because you deverted the conversation.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Spent time making and eating and cleaning up after dinner. returned to this site to find 10 pages of drivel and subjects that jumped all over the place. Pretty impressive.

The question about when life begins is real simple. Life begins at the moment of conception. That doesn't mean a baby will be born. 

Abortion is only one of many causes that end the life of an unborn human. Miscarriages are legal. How could they not be when they are a natural event?Abortion is a choice, is legal in this country and is also murder. Try figuring that one out.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Well if you think of it in terms of capital punishment. That is reserved for serial murderers and the most heinous of crimes. If you have a woman that has aborted 20 children or one that gets late term abortions then she obviously she has a callous disregard for life. Those babies can survive outside the womb. They often cry during the procedure. How can that not be a punishable crime. If that was done to puppies there'd be outrage. But I'm sure with our current judiciary system most women would just do jail time.


Well, but late-term abortions are extremely rare--.08% of all performed in 1997 if defined as over 24 weeks. I'm not sure what circumstances are responsible for these, but I don't imagine it's an easy choice for the would-be mothers or the doctors. You just can't waltz down to Planned Parenthood for something like that.


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Most members of the Supreme Court have been strict constructionists. For them, the Constitution is black and white. Thank God for those strict constructionists. Without them we would already have lost the Bill of Rights if not the entire Constitution.


Really?

http://news.yahoo.com/ruth-bader-ginsburg-trashes-constitution-she-impeached-232200921.html


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Most members of the Supreme Court have been strict constructionists. For them, the Constitution is black and white. Thank God for those strict constructionists. Without them we would already have lost the Bill of Rights if not the entire Constitution.


Things are black and white for those who have an opinion and arent afraid to state it. For those who dont want to commit to one side or the other yes they can make grey so they can be on both sides of the fence.


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> There is the well known fact that swimming pools save swimmers from being eaten by sharks. Let's stop this foolishness.


Good point! :thumbup:


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> The original discussion was about gun violence and propose reasonable steps to control it. The attempts to confuse the debate by adding abortion are feeble attempts to bore us to death. Won't work. We know what you're doing.


And punishing everyone is reasonable?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Whats your point?


You said earlier that nobody should give anyone else power over your life.
Well I did, and it saved both the lives of my daughter and myself. Just responding to your comment.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bull feathers.


http://www.acf.hhs.gov
Read the report yourself. The results are "No significant outcome" on just about everything.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> The original discussion was about gun violence and propose reasonable steps to control it. The attempts to confuse the debate by adding abortion are feeble attempts to bore us to death. Won't work. We know what you're doing.


The discussion was about the lives of children being lost. You insist on focussing on a single method that resulted in those deaths. Some are just pointing out that there are things that cause more deaths but to you that's ok. It just seems a bit hypocritical.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I just read that Obama is trying to cut Social Security benefits. Oh, my God.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that Obama is trying to cut Social Security benefits. Oh, my God.


Why does that shock you? He stole from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. He cut WH tours to save money, but had the extravaganza Easter Egg Roll as a photo op. He slept while Americans were being murdered. His so called return of pay, would pay for 9 minutes on Airforce One.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. I should not be surprised. This man is the worst thing for this country.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Obama-cuts-social-security/2013/04/05/id/497971

President Barack Obamas budget plan will incorporate deficit-cutting proposals that include changing the calculation for Social Security cost-of-living increases and tax brackets, according to a White House statement.
The plan, set for release April 10, will track the offer on spending cuts and revenue increases that Obama made to House Speaker John Boehner of Ohio as part of an end-of-the-year deal on expiring tax cuts, according to the statement e-mailed Friday.

While this is not the presidents ideal deficit reduction plan, and there are particular proposals in this plan like the CPI change that were key Republican requests and not the presidents preferred approach, this is a compromise proposal that will be part of the budget, according to the statement.

Obamas offer to Boehner still stands, it said.

That means that the things like CPI that Republican leaders have pushed hard for will only be accepted if congressional Republicans are willing to do more on revenues, said the statement. This isnt about political horse trading; its about reducing the deficit in a balanced way.

The plan includes a new inflation gauge that would effectively reduce cost-of-living increases for Social Security beneficiaries, a measure that is sure to draw opposition from many Democrats. It also proposes using the calculation for adjusting income tax brackets, which would mean higher payments for many taxpayers.

The New York Times reports the budget also proposes cuts to Medicare.

While Obamas fifth budget proposal stands little chance of becoming law because of opposition from Republicans who control the House, it emphasizes the presidents priorities and will set the stage for talks with Republicans on a broader debt-reduction package.
For the first time, Obama is adding specific entitlement benefit cuts in his official budget, an attempt to signal to Republicans that he still wants to reach a deal on reducing the

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/05/obama-social-security-cuts_n_3019123.html


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Medicare has been cut to people with cancer. The administrtion is blaming it on sequester, and the right. They will be prevented from recieving the drugs they need to help them. All I can do is ask why. 

Right has become wrong and wrong has become right. 

But we all know it is for AcA. Why, all you have to hear is why the funds are needed in another part of the ACA act, and used in other health care in this program

So now we have to add death to older people. It is so wrong, just wrong. 
If a babies brain is formed at six weeks what makes one think that it is not life. How sad, it was reported by a man of the black race that the furture of the next generation has been lost to it's race. Why because more black women have abortions preformed than any other race. How sad that is to think about.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Why does that shock you? He stole from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. He cut WH tours to save money, but had the extravaganza Easter Egg Roll as a photo op. He slept while Americans were being murdered. His so called return of pay, would pay for 9 minutes on Airforce One.


He is now playing God with human lives. I see no end to this. This is a sad nation the way it is going.

I am just praying I will not live to see what is going to happen next. Life has no value any more.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You said earlier that nobody should give anyone else power over your life.
> Well I did, and it saved both the lives of my daughter and myself. Just responding to your comment.


Nice to see you Patty hope all is well with you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, just a lot of GOP word twisting. A page or two back someone wondered how long it would take the rightists to twist things around--answer: about 60 seconds.


Susan, when you think someone has in your mind "twisted" words, why do you use the word GOP? Why are we not just people?

A lot of you Demos gets words twisted, but I do not read where you are called lefties or Demos!

Please clarify!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I feel the same way. Glad that I am older and do not have as long to live with Obama's consequences. I fear that I will be greatly affected anyway.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

guess who


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Cheeky Blighter, AKA Lily you are not to good at hiding, from Minn. You really should come back as Rocky, but then Rocky may be Ingried who told Susan what is happening. But then you could be pretending to be Susan too.


Are you implying that I may be Ingried in disguise? That's one heck of a compliment!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)




----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may be in disguise? That's one heck of a compliment!


 nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you compliment!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you quote]


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Michelle is having problems with her bangs! Such a shame she cannot be on TV for anything else.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> a compliment!


nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Poor Michelle is having problems with her bangs! Such a shame she cannot be on TV for anything else.


Oh you lady you are the fun in life.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may be ote]
> 
> nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may in disguise? That's one heck of


nope


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> implying in ? That's one heck of a compl!


nope


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Dang, guess I'll just have to keep trying. Frankly, the way you ladies keep going on and on about the semi-mythical Ingried has made me wildly curious. Who IS this person and what did she say to make you react to her in such a way? A whole army of folks over on Ravelry have adopted variations of the name in apparent admiration, and the GOPers on this thread invoke her name at every opportunity. She must have had a tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may be Ingried in disguise? That's one heck of a compliment!


YarnLady, I wondered who cheeky really was so the LillyK fits.

Susan, you are not Ingried as I'm sure she is back on just have not had time to search for her new name.

Ingried was a know-it-all about everything while she did not live in the states, she said she voted! Such fun! She will rear her ugly head or is already working on us!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dang, Who IS on Ravelry have adopted variations of the name in apparent admiration, and the tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


that's what I wanted to hear. You have now given yourself away.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dang a tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> YarnLady, I wondered who cheeky really was so the LillyK fits.
> 
> Susan, you are not Ingried as I'm sure she is back on just have not had time to search for her new name.
> 
> Ingried was a know-it-all about everything while she did not live in the states, she said she voted! Such fun! She will rear her ugly head or is already working on us!


read pm's


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> YarnLady, I wondered who cheeky really was so the LillyK fits.
> 
> Susan, you are not Ingried as I'm sure she is back on just have not had time to search for her new name.
> 
> Ingried was a know-it-all about everything while she did not live in the states, she said she voted! Such fun! She will rear her ugly head or is already working on us!


nope


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

She has big problems with her bangs but she doesn't know it. I think she should make a fool of herself again and put her arm around the Queen. I'd like to take scissors to those bangs.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No it is NOT a compliment.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

you can't be Ingreid was smart.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you can't be Ingreid was smart.


Then maybe she could give you a lesson on how to use an Ipad...you just filled two pages with junk posts.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dang, guess I'll just have to keep trying. Frankly, . Who IS such a way? A whole army of folks over on Ravelry have adopted variations of the name tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


yes


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Then maybe lesson on how to use pad....


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> nope


tee hee


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> YarnLady, I wondered who cheeky really was so the LillyK fits.
> 
> Susan, you are not Ingried as I'm sure she is back on just have not had time to search for her new name.
> 
> Ingried was a know-it-all about everything while she did not live in the states, she said she voted! Such fun! She will rear her ugly head or is already working on us!


Americans overseas can vote by absentee ballot, and most do--it's perfectly legal.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may be Ingried in disguise? That's one heck of a compliment!


Ew.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ew.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dang, guess I'll just have to keep trying. Frankly, the way you ladies keep going on and on about the semi-mythical Ingried has made me wildly curious. Who IS this person and what did she say to make you react to her in such a way? A whole army of folks over on Ravelry have adopted variations of the name in apparent admiration, and the GOPers on this thread invoke her name at every opportunity. She must have had a tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


Have you read posts left by her 'admirers? Foul mouthed, poison-penned nasty people. Yuck.

I wouldn't lump you in with that bunch. Nor should you aspire to be so. You're nicer.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> overseas can ballot, and most do--it's perfectly legal.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> http://www.acf.hhs.gov
> Read the report yourself. The results are "No significant outcome" on just about everything.


I will look at this. My knowledge of past results is that the research documenting efficacy of Head Start has been mixed.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Have you read posts left by her 'admirers? Foul mouthed, poison-penned nasty people. Yuck.
> 
> I wouldn't lump you in with that bunch. Nor should you aspire to be so. You're nicer.


Actually I have looked over those posts and, foul language aside, I was more struck by the similarities between the two groups than the differences--moans about a recent trip to " the dark side", questions about what's currently on the needles, what's for dinner, how's your health etc etc.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I have looked over those posts and, foul language aside, I was more struck by the similarities between the two groups than the differences--moans about a recent trip to " the dark side", questions about what's currently on the needles, what's for dinner, how's your health etc etc.


Susan, you should be honored to be thought of as Ingried. She was a well-read, articulate, worldly, creative, diligent, progressive who never backed down from any of the people on this forum.


----------



## lcbenny (Mar 28, 2013)

Murder is Not exercising your 2nd amendment rights.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Susan, you should be honored to be thought of as Ingried. She was a well-read, articulate, worldly, creative, diligent, progressive who never backed down from any of the people on this forum.


I know, that's the image I've built of her just by reading other folks' odd comments. It amazes me that Ingried, a single person, still holds such a grip on this and other threads. Talk about myth-building! The rightists have made her into a godlike figure just by the power of their own minds.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Ah was told by friend what was happening on there, and you where not on there?????

Seem readed both sides?????

But don't know Ingreid??????


----------



## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> He is now playing God with human lives. I see no end to this. This is a sad nation the way it is going.
> 
> I am just praying I will not live to see what is going to happen next. Life has no value any more.


Oh but yes it does! It has more value than ever! Obama wants you to feel that way. It is very sad how fast it seems to be slipping away, but remember we have something Obama will never have, something he's jealous of....we have the history of the blood of patriots that runs through our veins. The history of a ragtag bunch of farmers who defeated the most powerful army in the world.

And Obama has the history of his
.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Ah was told by friend what was happening on there, and you where not on there?????
> 
> Seem readed both sides?????
> 
> But don't know Ingreid??????


What?!

Yarnie, please have some mercy on the Ipad--it seems to be developing a mind of its own and is now fighting you at every turn.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bull feathers.


Well, lady since you are so sensitive about being PC, when you use this word in a cursing manner, it is hurtful to me and my people the American Indians!

Don't be shy admit you are wrong for once in your lifetime.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that Obama is trying to cut Social Security benefits. Oh, my God.


Well, folks, the yard surely will grow green grass as I will have to start eating it if SS is cut. Wonder how the wood in the house will taste? Maybe a little salt on the carpets?

Someone posted a joke (may come true with Obo in the WH) that a rich man saw a family eating grass so he stopped and told them he would take them to his house for a good meal as the grass in his yard was nice and tall!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As you saw fit the other night to say in my words all bets were off.

I feel that I would return the favor espeically using the Quote stick it in your ears and blow it out your noses. I thought I would return the favor.

I do so hope you do aspire to be like Ingreid, as that is why she was removed from KP and has to now come back as a different person with different name.

I leave you with this parting Quote:

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.

as you have said, of me and I quote: I am right I am always RIGHT.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Alcameron, you are so wrong about Ingried as she was the most uneducated hateful person I have ever read about! She slammed everyone KP is why she was thrown off!

Susan, she said she was not a citizen of America, but enjoyed all of the benefits including voting!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's not a matter of caring. It's a matter of focus.



Jodif77 said:


> No the point is if you truly want to save the most lives you change the things that take the most lives. Otherwise you are really only concerned with power.
> 
> Those are all preventable deaths. The fact you only care about gun deaths puzzles me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You were diverting from the conversation. It's a matter of focusing on one discussion at a time. That is what I meant.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Suzi we were having a conversation not a diversion.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Americans overseas can vote by absentee ballot, and most do--it's perfectly legal.


Unless you are in the military overseas then Obama made it difficult for absentee ballots.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Start with an open mind. Gather information. Then decide. There's plenty of room for grey areas in accumulating information.



Jodif77 said:


> Things are black and white for those who have an opinion and arent afraid to state it. For those who dont want to commit to one side or the other yes they can make grey so they can be on both sides of the fence.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't understand.



Jodif77 said:


> And punishing everyone is reasonable?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Do you really buy in to what Rand believed? You should check out some of the other things she believed in. I don't think you would be quoting her if you did.


What's interesting to me is that she wrote this in the 1950's so I guess she was talking about the government in that era?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I have looked over those posts and, foul language aside, I was more struck by the similarities between the two groups than the differences--moans about a recent trip to " the dark side", questions about what's currently on the needles, what's for dinner, how's your health etc etc.


WOW do you have way too much time on your hands. Wish I had time to spend all day trolling different sites, people, or blogs just to read pages and pages and pages to read old posts just to find fault with someone or come up with a conspiracy theory. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MOMTO2 said:


> As I said different "gun" cultures here. I have a difficult time in believing that having a gun makes me any more safer than not.
> 
> For me it is not even a question, if they could save the lives of 20 more children by banning assault weapons and multi firing magazines from being purchased it is a law well worth it.
> 
> I do not believe for a moment that your inherent rights under the constitution will be taken away for you. The lovely part of living in a democratic country is that you have to have enough faith in the process that it will work to the benefit of all citizens.


I have not heard of many instances where someone with a CHL was able to deter a shooter. It certainly did not work for the D.A. or the prosecutor in Texas and both were carrying.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Indeed it is. She is a fine person.



susanmos2000 said:


> Are you implying that I may be Ingried in disguise? That's one heck of a compliment!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Then maybe she could give you a lesson on how to use an Ipad...you just filled two pages with junk posts.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Head Start has been shown to be ineffective.


From a study I read:

Finally, it should be noted that under either interpretation of the Head Start research evidence, we are only making statements about the effectiveness of Head Start on average. There is some evidence that some Head Start Centers are considerably more effective than average.

"Under either interpretation of the evidence, it makes more sense to improve the effectiveness of Head Start rather than to defund it. The evidence for the effectiveness of some preschool programs, such as many state-funded pre-K programs, is strong. We know that high-quality pre-K programs can work, and can work on a large scale. The question is what reforms in Head Start quality standards, staff training, curriculum, and funding approaches, will best increase the average effectiveness of Head Start."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So sorry o sensitive Native American to have offended a nation by my insensitive manner. Do your people own bulls or feathers?



Janeway said:


> Well, lady since you are so sensitive about being PC, when you use this word in a cursing manner, it is hurtful to me and my people the American Indians!
> 
> Don't be shy admit you are wrong for once in your lifetime.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> From a study I read:
> 
> Finally, it should be noted that under either interpretation of the Head Start research evidence, we are only making statements about the effectiveness of Head Start on average. There is some evidence that some Head Start Centers are considerably more effective than average.
> 
> "Under either interpretation of the evidence, it makes more sense to improve the effectiveness of Head Start rather than to defund it. The evidence for the effectiveness of some preschool programs, such as many state-funded pre-K programs, is strong. We know that high-quality pre-K programs can work, and can work on a large scale. The question is what reforms in Head Start quality standards, staff training, curriculum, and funding approaches, will best increase the average effectiveness of Head Start."


And how will we pay for it? Cut more from SS? Cut more from the military? Tell me where the money will come from please. Seems like a 'black hole' similar to LBJ's war on poverty.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jodif77 said:


> Really?
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/ruth-bader-ginsburg-trashes-constitution-she-impeached-232200921.html


The article you provided the link to asks if Ruth Bader Ginsburg should be impeached. I learned a thing or two and appreciate that.

The article also talks about how textualism and originalism have been combined into the idea of strict constructionism and that it is a degraded form of these two concepts. If so, let's give up using the term "strict constructionism" if that's the case. Let's use the terms "textualism" and "originalism" instead. I'm just another person who did not know what perils are involved in using the term "strict constructionist", easy to do as it is such a popular expression.

The article also refers to a New York Times article addressing the issue of reduced popularity of our Constitution as a good example of what other countries writing their own new constitutions because our Constitution does not guarantee the right to, among other things, food, health care and education. Maybe it's time to work on amending our Constitution to include rights it should obviously contain,

What is important if we cling too stubbornly to textualism and originalism is that we run into The Absurdity Doctrine, which holds that common sense interpretations should be used, rather than literal reading of a law or of original intent. I still prefer that the Constitution should be interpreted conservatively, but have a better understanding of how far that should go.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting evaluation.



SeattleSoul said:


> The article you provided the link to asks if Ruth Bader Ginsburg should be impeached. I learned a thing or two and appreciate that.
> 
> The article also talks about how textualism and originalism have been combined into the idea of strict constructionism and that it is a degraded form of these two concepts. If so, let's give up using the term "strict constructionism" if that's the case. Let's use the terms "textualism" and "originalism" instead. I'm just another person who did not know what perils are involved in using the term "strict constructionist", easy to do as it is such a popular expression.
> 
> ...


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Thankfully, at the present time it appears that the NK don't have a delivery system to reach the US mainland west coast.
> 
> But knowing this does not eliminate the future threat.


I read that also. I think they can only reach Guam or close to it. I'm not sure what is behind Little Kim rattling his saber right now but it can't be a good thing.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> And what might have happened if the principal being trained in it's use had had a hand gun???


They would have been shot because the shooter had an assault weapon and was wearing body armor. Unless she was highly skilled to make a head shot, she would still have been killed. IMO.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Medicare has been cut to people with cancer. The administrtion is blaming it on sequester, and the right. They will be prevented from recieving the drugs they need to help them. All I can do is ask why.
> 
> Right has become wrong and wrong has become right.
> 
> ...


Do you have a source for the Medicare issue and cancer patients receiving drugs? I do know that one pharmaceutical company ran out of a certain drug but have heard nothing about the other. I have personal experience with cancer and still see an oncologist so this is news to me.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dang, guess I'll just have to keep trying. Frankly, the way you ladies keep going on and on about the semi-mythical Ingried has made me wildly curious. Who IS this person and what did she say to make you react to her in such a way? A whole army of folks over on Ravelry have adopted variations of the name in apparent admiration, and the GOPers on this thread invoke her name at every opportunity. She must have had a tongue as sharp as a cleaver.


Thanks for asking this. In this thread, I've seen Ingried mentioned but I have no clue who she may be.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Do you have a source for the Medicare issue and cancer patients receiving drugs? I do know that one pharmaceutical company ran out of a certain drug but have heard nothing about the other. I have personal experience with cancer and still see an oncologist so this is news to me.


Just type in Medicare and cancer drug cuts. TV put that in and you will see all the tv stations reporting it.

I heard it on CNN, Fox news, and local news stations.

I wish you well believe me, life is not what it use to be or not what it is going to be for this older generation.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I hope the whole nation sees who is leading us and has an uprising.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I found this interesting and thought you would too: 
Awesome video: How babies019 faces develop in the womb | LifeSiteNews.com


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I hope the whole nation sees who is leading us and has an uprising.


So a coup of some sort is preferable to waiting three years for Obama to leave office? Do you realize what your're saying?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> So sorry o sensitive Native American to have offended a nation by my insensitive manner. Do your people own bulls or feathers?


Most own bulls along with cattle and feathers are used in headdress. Your reply was hateful as you used both words in a cursing manner!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And how will we pay for it? Cut more from SS? Cut more from the military? Tell me where the money will come from please. Seems like a 'black hole' similar to LBJ's war on poverty.


You know the answer. Raise tax rate on the rich and plug up the loopholes. Let's make corporations pay taxes.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Just type in Medicare and cancer drug cuts. TV put that in and you will see all the tv stations reporting it.
> 
> I heard it on CNN, Fox news, and local news stations.
> 
> I wish you well believe me, life is not what it use to be or not what it is going to be for this older generation.


I just did some research. It seems to be about what is covered and not covered by Medicare. The cancer patients can still get their medication but according to Medicare guidelines, they must be administered by a hospital. So the patients that are going to a clinic do have an issue. The clinics will receive less reimbursement from Medicare - they can't change what the cost of prescriptions - so they have to eat some of the cost of the care. In essence, they have to pay a paycut.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Most own bulls along with cattle and feathers are used in headdress. Your reply was hateful as you used both words in a cursing manner!


 :hunf:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Thanks for asking this. In this thread, I've seen Ingried mentioned but I have no clue who she may be.


She was thrown off KP for her hateful remarks, but we know she will or has returned under another name.

LillyK also was thrown off but we know she is back. She was ConnanK among other names.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> And how will we pay for it? Cut more from SS? Cut more from the military? Tell me where the money will come from please. Seems like a 'black hole' similar to LBJ's war on poverty.


Maybe cut this program and encourage the states to start one if they don't already have some sort of program in place. Cuts waste and takes it to a state level.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> :hunf:


Please explain what you are meaning with this Hunf?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> They would have been shot because the shooter had an assault weapon and was wearing body armor. Unless she was highly skilled to make a head shot, she would still have been killed. IMO.


My 38 handgun has a laser bead so I know where it will hit. It also is hammerless and I take the police handgun course yearly with a perfect score! Anymore questions!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lunch anyone?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> My 38 handgun has a laser bead so I know where it will hit. It also is hammerless and I take the police handgun course yearly with a perfect score! Anymore questions!


May I ask why you think you need this and how often you have used it?
(I'm asking a serious question)


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Most own bulls along with cattle and feathers are used in headdress. Your reply was hateful as you used both words in a cursing manner!


And to think some of you on the left called me racist and a bigot. Seem your understand and not wanting to starting anything and all are into facts. Has been brought to the mud with this remark to Janeway.

Good one Damemary, you really have shown what you are really like.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Lunch anyone?


Looks good wish I could join you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> And to think some of you on the left called me racist and a bigot. Seem your understand and not wanting to starting anything and all are into facts. Has been brought to the mud with this remark to Janeway.
> 
> Good one Damemary, you really have shown what you are really like.[/quote
> 
> I think damemary used the word "feathers" to complete the phrase that is usually bull----something else. I don't believe that's an intended racial slur unless it offends Janeway. At least I have never heard it before.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I just did some research. It seems to be about what is covered and not covered by Medicare. The cancer patients can still get their medication but according to Medicare guidelines, they must be administered by a hospital. So the patients that are going to a clinic do have an issue. The clinics will receive less reimbursement from Medicare - they can't change what the cost of prescriptions - so they have to eat some of the cost of the care. In essence, they have to pay a paycut.


Apparently you did not read all that is out there. The cuts in drugs will affect clinic as medicare is being cut. Try reading agin. Doctors will be cutting back on patients as drugs are to expensive and they will be cutting patient back. From what I have read in papers and heard on news and read on doctor sites it is going down. They will cut patients off as they can mot afford it. Try looking at Medscapes site.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

And I said nothing to deserve what was thrown at me. I don't care how she puts it, it is still a cut, and that to me is just as bad. Racist or bigot pick one. She is just as guilty.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think damemary used the word "feathers" to complete the phrase that is usually bull----something else. I don't believe that's an intended racial slur unless it offends Janeway. At least I have never heard it before.


Actually "bullfeathers" was one of Teddy Roosevelt's favorite expletives--for exactly the reasons you stated, Al. How can Janeway object to a word a GOP Big Boy used?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> May I ask why you think you need this and how often you have used it?
> (I'm asking a serious question)


When my husband worked, he traveled so after my heart condition, we were robbed while I was in cardiac rehab so my husband bought this handgun and I learned how to shoot this weapon. Senior service bus picked me up so the driver noticed the broken door and called police.

My husband already had a gun permit as he worked in a high crime area so I applied for one and was given a lifetime permit. The sheriff's dept took a print of every finger and when they saw my handwritten birth certificate with water marks from the doctor who put the lead pencil in his mouth and said "no one" would go to this much trouble to make a BC like yours!

No, I have not had to use it but if anyone breaks in the house while I'm home--heaven help them!

My oxygen machine has a 50' hose so it reaches though out the house as it sets in the middle of the house. I am not able to defend myself any other way.

The criminals are targeting the elderly as they think we keep money stashed! I have looked through out this house but have not found a penny!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Question cheeky blighter are you from anywhere around Liverpool? Are you in anyway involved in Liverpool Pathways? Didn't they euthanize about 170, 000 people last year? Dont they, like you, value life according to what they have to contribute to society. And if their life is of no benefit to society they are euthanized.
> 
> You know eventually that could be your mom or dad. Or maybe even (God forbid) a child that's received brain damage in a swimming or car accident.


Jodi - For someone who does not know me at all you have made several assumptions about me and my own life experiences. I am a very compassionate person and you may want to read the article I have attached here. Seems you may read the tabloids and jump to conclusions without knowing the facts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/liverpool-care-pathway-a-way-of-death-worth-fighting-for-8443348.html


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> When my husband worked, he traveled so after my heart condition, we were robbed while I was in cardiac rehab so my husband bought this handgun and I learned how to shoot this weapon. Senior service bus picked me up so the driver noticed the broken door and called police.
> 
> My husband already had a gun permit as he worked in a high crime area so I applied for one and was given a lifetime permit. The sheriff's dept took a print of every finger and when they saw my handwritten birth certificate with water marks from the doctor who put the lead pencil in his mouth and said "no one" would go to this much trouble to make a BC like yours!
> 
> ...


Hmm, I understand your desire to protect yourself, but leaving that oxygen machine in plain sight probably isn't the best option. If someone breaks into your home one stray bullet--yours or his--will make that thing explode.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And what might have happened if the principal being trained in it's use had had a hand gun???


I believe the principal would have ended up dead as the killer had an automatic weapon. No match for a handgun.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually "bullfeathers" was one of Teddy Roosevelt's favorite expletives--for exactly the reasons you stated, Al. How can Janeway object to a word a GOP Big Boy used?


Susan, there were a lot of cars that were named after Indian names that were changed to other names.

I don't care "who" uses the words it still is a slur to the American Indians when it is used in a cursing manner!

Yes, I am an American Indian who is Republican! It is my understanding that Roosevelt used those words as some people use "shoot" or golly gee. I was slammed for making a true statement but it is OK for the Demo's to slam my people by using words as curse words!

Are you feeling your Cheerios because you have a few Demo's on this site? I thought we were being civil to each other!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I believe the principal would have ended up dead as the killer had an automatic weapon. No match for a handgun.


In fact she was--victim #2 as Lanza began his rampage by shooting up the school's main office.

But even the psycho has used a side entrance it wouldn't have made any difference. The killings took place in less than five minutes--way too short a time for the principal to hear the shots, size up the situation, retrieve a pistol from a lock box, load it, locate Lanza in the building, then gun him down.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, I understand your desire to protect yourself, but leaving that oxygen machine in plain sight probably isn't the best option. If someone breaks into your home one stray bullet--yours or his--will make that thing explode.


Well, would it really matter as long as the person who broke in died too? It would be good enough for them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Are you feeling your Cheerios because you have a few Demo's on this site? I thought we were being civil to each other!


I thought so too. And if you honestly find the exclamation "bullfeathers" offensive then it probably shouldn't be used.

But how about bringing me a little peace of mind by promising to move that oxygen machine into your bedroom, at least at night? The fact that you're tethered to it 24/7 makes you very vulnerable, no kidding. All a burglar has to do to overpower you is switch the thing off or put a bullet into it. Not a pleasant thought.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, lady since you are so sensitive about being PC, when you use this word in a cursing manner, it is hurtful to me and my people the American Indians!
> 
> Don't be shy admit you are wrong for once in your lifetime.


There is no such thing as a bull with feathers is there? So how could this be an insult to anyone since it does not exist? Can't possibly hurt you, it's not real. Calm yourself.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Indeed it is. She is a fine person.


Yes, it does take one to know one Snoozi_Suzi!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, would it really matter as long as the person who broke in died too? It would be good enough for them.


Of course it would matter! You want to be around for the GOP victory party in 2016, don't you? And who else is there for folks to turn to when they need to calm their nerves with cookies and tea?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> There is no such thing as a bull with feathers is there? So how could this be an insult to anyone since it does not exist? Can't possibly hurt you, it's not real. Calm yourself.


Thanks, but Damemary AKA SNoozi_Suzi, used it in a cursing manner. People have used it for years as a slam against the American Indians!

What nationality are you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Have you read posts left by her 'admirers? Foul mouthed, poison-penned nasty people. Yuck.
> 
> I wouldn't lump you in with that bunch. Nor should you aspire to be so. You're nicer.


Susan you should be so proud to be counted among Ingried's friends. She is always with us wherever we go and she is an inspiration to those of us who are fortunate enough to be considered her friends. She is one of the most amazing, talented and intelligent people I have ever known. Her kindness has no bounds. You are in good company.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> May I ask why you think you need this and how often you have used it?
> (I'm asking a serious question)


We have several handguns in our home. I'm a decent shot and I and my husband shoot regularly. We feel that it is our responsibility to protect ourselves. We live in a major city and have had to use the protection on a couple of occasions. We are trustworthy and honest. It's the other guy one needs to worry about.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, I am just saying that I wish the people would collectively realize how bad he is and let him know somehow - peacefully. No coup. And, 3 more years could do a lot more harm.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I thought so too. And if you honestly find the exclamation "bullfeathers" offensive then it probably shouldn't be used.
> 
> But how about bringing me a little peace of mind by promising to move that oxygen machine into your bedroom, at least at night? The fact that you're tethered to it 24/7 makes you very vulnerable, no kidding. All a burglar has to do to overpower you is switch the thing off or put a bullet into it. Not a pleasant thought.


Yes, it would be much better in the bedroom, but it is noisy then it puffs every once in a while. It kept my husband awake at night. I moved into the guest room for awhile but it made him unhappy.

At least when it is in the center of the house, I can get more housework done as the hose will reach through out the house. Otherwise, I'm huffing and puffing trying to even make the bed or any housework plus get dizzy so this works best for me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Do you have a source for the Medicare issue and cancer patients receiving drugs? I do know that one pharmaceutical company ran out of a certain drug but have heard nothing about the other. I have personal experience with cancer and still see an oncologist so this is news to me.


I want you to google this medicare and cancer drugs cuts. This may give you more of what I was talking about.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In fact she was--victim #2 as Lanza began his rampage by shooting up the school's main office.
> 
> But even the psycho has used a side entrance it wouldn't have made any difference. The killings took place in less than five minutes--way too short a time for the principal to hear the shots, size up the situation, retrieve a pistol from a lock box, load it, locate Lanza in the building, then gun him down.


Yes, I should have said just as dead but maybe lived a fraction of a second longer if that.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan you should be so proud to be counted among Ingried's friends. She is always with us wherever we go and she is an inspiration to those of us who are fortunate enough to be considered her friends. She is one of the most amazing, talented and intelligent people I have ever known. Her kindness has no bounds. You are in good company.


I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.
I will not take the bait.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huh?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan you should be so proud to be counted among Ingried's friends. She is always with us wherever we go and she is an inspiration to those of us who are fortunate enough to be considered her friends. She is one of the most amazing, talented and intelligent people I have ever known. Her kindness has no bounds. You are in good company.


Where did you get this untruthful info about Ingried? It is time to let that horrible person be dead as she was "Thrown" off KP!

Cheeky, take another topic and let this go as I'm sure you did "not" know her! You and others are just trying to be funny without success?

You are sooooo funny!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What's interesting to me is that she wrote this in the 1950's so I guess she was talking about the government in that era?


I don't understand why she is the darling of so many on the right as Rand Paul seems infatuated with her. Any ideas?


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, maybe gun control advocates should focus on shutting that organization down. After hearing them suggest (in the wake of the Sandy Hook shootings) that the solution is to station armed guards around each school I realized that they were absolutely crazy.


The public schools in my area have at least one police officer at all times. One of the school shootings happened in my area. Kip Kinkle, the info learned AFTER this shooting was a sad situation of NUMEROUS people put their heads in the sand. His mental health issue was ignored in part because both his parents were teachers. His dad bought the guns for him. Serious case of Parental neglect, and too many others paid the price for their ability to not use proper reasoning. Sad to say, too many people do not deal with the tough issues when they need to be dealt with. There were people legally hushed to avoid the school itself from being sued by parents of these victims.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Boy, Ingried is/was the worst!


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> We are going to suffer much more than you suggest under Obama's "laws".


Ditto. No one REALLY knows what they contain in the pages and pages of details.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

CaroleJS said:


> The public schools in my area have at least one police officer at all times. One of the school shootings happened in my area. Kip Kinkle, the info learned AFTER this shooting was a sad situation of NUMEROUS people put their heads in the sand. His mental health issue was ignored in part because both his parents were teachers. His dad bought the guns for him. Serious case of Parental neglect, and too many others paid the price for their ability to not use proper reasoning. Sad to say, too many people do not deal with the tough issues when they need to be dealt with. There were people legally hushed to avoid the school itself from being sued by parents of these victims.


So sorry for the sadness in your school and area. Why parents will buy guns for a mentally challenged child is beyond my reasoning! Just like the last one as there was so many guns in the basement--but the mother was shot first and she took him to the shooting range to learn how to shoot.

She was not playing with a full deck of cards either as she went to a local pup at least three nights a week and left him alone with all those guns. Sad situation bad parenting leads to a lot of other people dealing with grief caused by parents who are out of touch with reality!

Then so many other people must pay by loosing their loved ones to a sick person.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

CaroleJS said:


> The public schools in my area have at least one police officer at all times. One of the school shootings happened in my area. Kip Kinkle, the info learned AFTER this shooting was a sad situation of NUMEROUS people put their heads in the sand. His mental health issue was ignored in part because both his parents were teachers. His dad bought the guns for him. Serious case of Parental neglect, and too many others paid the price for their ability to not use proper reasoning. Sad to say, too many people do not deal with the tough issues when they need to be dealt with. There were people legally hushed to avoid the school itself from being sued by parents of these victims.


I am so glad to hear that at least your community is at least protecting the children. As you have said others would like to bury their head in the sand, or look away.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Someone put this site on today's chit chat! Are the Demo's reaching out for supporters?

There may be more Repubs than they will want to join us!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thanks, but Damemary AKA SNoozi_Suzi, used it in a cursing manner. People have used it for years as a slam against the American Indians!
> 
> What nationality are you?


I'm a Cheeky Blighter who respects all people and hope all will respect me. I won't use any names that will offend you.


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What are your suggestions? If one little thing saves one life, I think it's a good thing.


I agree. Law enforcement encourages private citizens to have signs of either security system or of a dog in the home to deter hoodlums from breaking in. So why not someone of any form of armed means? These people in these jobs are thoroughly trained to deal with crowds.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> To the person who said that we already have a ban on assault weapons, you are wrong. We used to. Bush let it expire.


The law was allowed to expire because the ban made no difference to the ratio of deaths. People were not using assault weapons in every day crimes. criminals need to travel light and need an easily concealable weapon. A rifle does not fit into this category.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> As I said different "gun" cultures here. I have a difficult time in believing that having a gun makes me any more safer than not.
> 
> For me it is not even a question, if they could save the lives of 20 more children by banning assault weapons and multi firing magazines from being purchased it is a law well worth it.
> 
> I do not believe for a moment that your inherent rights under the constitution will be taken away for you. The lovely part of living in a democratic country is that you have to have enough faith in the process that it will work to the benefit of all citizens.


You are ignoring the fact that the shooter, Lanza, was mentally ill and was determined to kill as many people as possible. This is the reason he chose the elementary school. If not by being heavily armed, he would have found another way to do it. This is what he wanted to do and chose a no gun zone where there would be no resistance. Same with the movie theatre shooting in Colorado. It was also a no gun zone. Easy pickings.


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## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, we are going to have armed security guards in our schools starting next school. I think it is great! Maybe those who want to shoot school children will think again, but we are not safe anywhere as even our church now locks the doors with an unarmed person at the doors during our service. Nuts are everywhere including this site with some of the remarks.
> 
> I am a licensed gun carrier as there is no other way to defend myself without a handgun. No one would expect me to be "packing" a gun.
> 
> ...


You are doing the responsible thing. Years ago I was a victim of domestic violence, guns were involved. I was ADVISED by a detective and my attorney to get a gun to protect myself. I went to an area firearms academy and received excellent training. This academy also trains law enforcement officers and armed security personnel.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I said the same thing. I am in agreement that those can be tightened up.
> 
> You are as ugly as always.


Thank you thumper. takes one to know one.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, it would be helpful if you could give some specific examples to help us understand.


Help you understand what? That there is waste in government?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Isn't training like how to handle and care for a gun, gun safety etc different than training to shoot in conflict? There is a huge difference between them.


I would agree with that. They should be different.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> Yes and the week sandy hook happened a man in china went into a school with a butcher knife and killed a number of children.


I don't think any children were killed in that attack. 23 were injured


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> But doesn't the problem return to having adequate, trained manpower to enforce it?


We do, our police forces.


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Some of us are sitting here on the west coast, but I don't think their weapons can reach this far. They can kill a lot of people in Seoul and can attack Guam.


I read that they will target our military bases. These are on our west coast too. Range of their capability? Not sure.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> We do, our police forces.


Police forces have been downsized in America. They are spread very thin. The FBI and ATF should step up and help work on this problem.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I'm a Cheeky Blighter who respects all people and hope all will respect me. I won't use any names that will offend you.


Thank you as I appreciate your words. I do not ever mean to offend anyone either, but guess others have thought I have in the past.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Then why were you pointing out our names and making snide remarks about them?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

CaroleJS said:


> You are doing the responsible thing. Years ago I was a victim of domestic violence, guns were involved. I was ADVISED by a detective and my attorney to get a gun to protect myself. I went to an area firearms academy and received excellent training. This academy also trains law enforcement officers and armed security personnel.


Bless your heart at least you got out and moved on with your life! Sending prayers to you lovely lady!


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## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> So sorry for the sadness in your school and area. Why parents will buy guns for a mentally challenged child is beyond my reasoning! Just like the last one as there was so many guns in the basement--but the mother was shot first and she took him to the shooting range to learn how to shoot.
> 
> She was not playing with a full deck of cards either as she went to a local pup at least three nights a week an:-Od left him alone with all those guns. Sad situation bad parenting leads to a lot of other people dealing with grief caused by parents who are out of touch with reality!
> 
> Then so many other people must pay by loosing their loved ones to a sick person.


Kip also killed BOTH his parents. Sad to say, they paid the ultimate price for their lack of responsible parenting.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then why were you pointing out our names and making snide remarks about them?


Well, sorry, but BrattyPatty is unusual at least part of my user name is my real name. Jane. The Janeway came from the space TV show Voyager!

How did yours arrive as BrattyPatty?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

My real name is Patty. My older sister used to call me BrattyPatty to make me mad, but as we grew up it became a name of affection and still does


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## Damama (Oct 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Seattle, it is time for all little girls to go to bed plus your gang has left this site! Nighty, night, don't let the bed bugs bite!


What the heck is this all about, or do I really want to know?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You know the answer. Raise tax rate on the rich and plug up the loopholes. Let's make corporations pay taxes.


Blah blah blah blah blah. Same song, from the same old playbook. Raise taxes..............how about improving job growth first before you steal more money from wage earners?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Police forces have been downsized in America. They are spread very thin. The FBI and ATF should step up and help work on this problem.


How will that be paid for? All these should statements, with no explanation of how.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I don't think any children were killed in that attack.
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/15/not-just-sandy-hook-china-s-terrifying-knife-attacks.html


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think this little punk in North Korea needs to be taken down a few rungs. It won't be just the US that feels threatened.The rest of the world (with a few minor exceptions) won't put up with him. We should send a few drones after him...


I don't see China or Russia allowing N. Korea to get any stronger. They might have supplied weapons and other military equipment, buy they will not tolerate NK taking control of SK. I think they will make some moves of their own soon.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did you know there are more people killed by abortion than by guns? Do you need the web site? I will more that happy to look it up.


Depends on your definition of "person", whether you are pro-choice or pro-life. I choose choice not pro abortion.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Damama said:


> What the heck is this all about, or do I really want to know?


Just two little girls having some childish fun!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well let's see, the FBI has thousands of employees. Just shift some over to a task force. Won't cost anymore than they already spend. Same with ATF.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> There is the well known fact that swimming pools save swimmers from being eaten by sharks. Let's stop this foolishness.


But no so from alligators, deer and moose. (Depending of course on where you live.)


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Lunch anyone?


How do we find the food? Is it too in outer space sometimes? Lol

LOVE homemade biscuits.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My real name is Patty. My older sister used to call me BrattyPatty to make me mad, but as we grew up it became a name of affection and still does


Thanks as it now makes sense about your user name.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> A gun can save a life just like one can kill a life. A gun can be used to protect the innocent kids too.


I can just see the "shootouts" in elementary schools. Guess we have to teach the kids to duck when the bullets start to fly.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

CaroleJS said:


> You are doing the responsible thing. Years ago I was a victim of domestic violence, guns were involved. I was ADVISED by a detective and my attorney to get a gun to protect myself. I went to an area firearms academy and received excellent training. This academy also trains law enforcement officers and armed security personnel.


You wont get any of the lefties to respond to this....they abhor common sense like vampires hate sunlight.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Depends on your definition of "person", whether you are pro-choice or pro-life. I choose choice not pro abortion.


Rocky, tell me true are you of the male gender who knits? If so please post some of your work.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I can just see the "shootouts" in elementary schools. Guess we have to teach the kids to duck when the bullets start to fly.


If a trained gunman is guarding the doors there wont be any problem. People like adam lanza are cowards. They take the path of least resistance.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well let's see, the FBI has thousands of employees. Just shift some over to a task force. Won't cost anymore than they already spend. Same with ATF.


Please prove that it could be done without added cost and not at the detriment to the the groups they are working for now. Will it require relocation? How will that be paid for? Will it require new training? How will that be paid for?

You answer sounds too flippant and more like a fantasy answer rather than a reality answer.


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Guns don't kill people! People kill people with whatever they want to use. Rocks, knives, rat poision even a pillow can be used as a weapon.


This is all too true. Sad to say, passenger vehicle drivers do drive head on into these large transport trucks in an attempt to commit suicide. These sick people have been reported to even wave to the driver they are colliding head on to.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Help you understand what? That there is waste in government?


Yes, what particular waste are you speaking of that will affect your life perhaps.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> ...


Now you're chanting the Democratic mantra--amazing. The spirit of Ingried is powerful indeed.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is the people that kill people not the guns. Maybe we should teach people right from wrong. Put God back in the schools and have deciplpline in the schools. Take care of the mental people . That would help. When we were growing up people weren't murdering people like now. Maybe we need to put God back into everything. Since God has been removed it has all gone to hell.


Ho do we put G-d in school? Who's G_d? Which prayers do we use, which bible do we use? No one is forbidden to pray in school if they want.


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> You wont get any of the lefties to respond to this....they abhor common sense like vampires hate sunlight.


I agree. I find reading some of these posts to be enlightening. I read somewhere that common sense has become uncommon.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You have got to be kidding about asking what waste affects our lives. It is everywhere and affects everything!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You have got to be kidding about asking what waste affects our lives. It is everywhere and affects everything!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> You wont get any of the lefties to respond to this....they abhor common sense like vampires hate sunlight.


Jodi you don't know how much I love the sun and it hasn't killed me yet. I was raised with guns in my home and have a healthy respect for them. I also know that a handgun or automatic are good for only one thing and that is to kill another human and it is there I draw the line. I can shoot someone with a hunting rifle just as dead.


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## Jodif77 (Feb 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I don't understand why she is the darling of so many on the right as Rand Paul seems infatuated with her. Any ideas?


She' s Russian. She knows man does his best when he's allowed to persue him own dreams for profit. And I'd have to say although I wasn't surprised that all you took from my post was that you dont like ayn rand.

I figure it must be because you agreed with the rest


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You have got to be kidding about asking what waste affects our lives. It is everywhere and affects everything!


How have you been personally affected by all the waste? What is it that you need that you are not getting? Do you contact your senators and representatives and complain when they spend foolishly so they know you are unhappy?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I can just see the "shootouts" in elementary schools. Guess we have to teach the kids to duck when the bullets start to fly.


Sad to say at my son's school they conduct "lock down" drills as well as those for fires and earthquakes. You have to wonder sometimes.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> They do it, by calling it abortion, every day. It's just acceptable to you by calling it that.


As long as abortions are legal, they will be done, and they will be done even if they were illegal. The value of a legal abortion is that they are safe. You may not like abortion, nor do I like abortion, but as long as women have been on this earth, there has always been and will always be abortion. That is why education is so important.


----------



## CaroleJS (Jun 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Bless your heart at least you got out and moved on with your life! Sending prayers to you lovely lady!


Thank you. I have done so with lots of moral support of those who came to my rescue. Our local police department and other agencies. My ordeal happened in Dec 1994.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

CaroleJS said:


> How do we find the food? Is it too in outer space sometimes? Lol
> 
> LOVE homemade biscuits.


DH loves them so I make about that many 2 X a week as he makes sandwiches out of them if we are out of homemade bread. I use Walmart's self rising flour,homemade buttermilk and olive oil.

Recipe:

Two cups buttermilk
1/4 cup olive oil
Enough self-rising flour to make a soft but firm dough, this depends on how thick or thin the buttermilk is. Maybe 4 cups of flour maybe less.

Put on waxed paper with more SS flour and knead lightly to cover it all with flour pat it out about 1/2" and cut be sure to press down through dough then twist the cutter.

Put into pan that is greased with olive oil and turn over so the top has oil then proceed until dough is all used. If crumbs are left, put them together and make one or two more biscuits, but throw scraps away this time as they will be tough and not good biscuits.

Cook in hot oven at 425 degrees about 12-15 minutes or until golden brown.

I freeze them when they cool and just microwave a few seconds until warm. Good as the day they are cooked. Enjoy.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> She' s Russian. She knows man does his best when he's allowed to persue him own dreams for profit. And I'd have to say although I wasn't surprised that all you took from my post was that you dont like ayn rand.
> 
> I figure it must be because you agreed with the rest


Jodi - I knew a lot about Rand before you posted. I probably know a lot more about her than you do that's why I said if you knew more than the little bit you posted you would probably not have anything to do with her.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> You wont get any of the lefties to respond to this....they abhor common sense like vampires hate sunlight.


Wrong again, Jodi!
I would love to respond to this. There is nothing wrong with owning a gun and learning how to shoot it. We are talking about the ban on military type assault weapons.
Where and when did anybody in this current administration state that all guns will be outlawed? That anybody who is registered to own a gun and has a permit to carry and conceal will lose that right? I looked and couldn't find anything.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Damama said:


> What the heck is this all about, or do I really want to know?


If you want to stay sane no if you want to go insane hang on to your hat, and join this merry gang. :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Bombshellknits (Feb 2, 2013)

I thought I would read this topic, but so many rude comments scared me away. I think maybe this whole site just isn't for me. Peace out, all.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think this situation is very scary. I can see him capriciously deciding on a whim that it was time to wield some power. They can reach Seoul very easily and kill a ton of people. And what's our military presence in South Korea? 28,000 of our military people?
> 
> North Korea has played this tune many times in the past. Each time they have been rewarded with money or food for their people.  I believe in 2005, we gave them money, however it was counterfeit. It brought them to their knees. But as long as their bad behavior is rewarded they will continue to act badly.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Now you're chanting the Democratic mantra--amazing. The spirit of Ingried is powerful indeed.


She's got it by George, she's got it! I can feel it swirling around us!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> If a trained gunman is guarding the doors there wont be any problem. People like adam lanza are cowards. They take the path of least resistance.


I always wonder if the "lock down" procedure as practiced as my son's school is suitable for California. The teacher locks the door, turns off the light, and the kids crawl under their desks--sensible if all the classrooms are in one building and you have to go down an open corridor to get outside. But a lot of West Coast schools are built with earthquake safety in mind and open directly onto the playground...wouldn't it be better to send the kids out with instruction to run in thirty different directions?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ho do we put G-d in school? Who's G_d? Which prayers do we use, which bible do we use? No one is forbidden to pray in school if they want.


Sorry, but you are wrong as last year at graduation, the valedictory speaker forbid prayer and it was not done. But of course he got his 15 minutes of fame as all the TV stations picked it up and he got to say his words--just like a spoiled brat!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> good morning, how are you doing? Still want an answer last night tomy question, but no response, about housing market and the President new idea, well old Idea, from Clinton day's that cause banks (and I do think their fault to)But we know have him promising to back these banks if it happens again. We have already with taxes payers money bailed them out (meaning banks) once. Poeple who still can't afford houses being talk into to it again, and with little down paymenst.


Not around here they're not. Can't buy a pup tent without solid gold credit and surrendering your firstborn.

Karen N.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Isn't it awful that young children have to go to school with the thought of being massacred on their minds? Talk about losing innocense at such a young age. And Wayne LaPierre thinks this is ok. Having armed guards at school is a great idea according to him and his NRA. Wouldn't a child be frightened by that sight?


----------



## ChristmasTree (Nov 28, 2011)

Bombshellknits said:


> I thought I would read this topic, but so many rude comments scared me away. I think maybe this whole site just isn't for me. Peace out, all.


I know I won't venture off into the non-knitting sections again.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Blah blah blah blah blah. Same song, from the same old playbook. Raise taxes..............how about improving job growth first before you steal more money from wage earners?


I wouldn't call the super-wealthy wage earners!! What are you smoking? The wealthy on an hourly wage? Dream on. And yes, we need job growth, but raising taxes on the wealthy won't be detrimental to that blah blah blah.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> There is no such thing as a bull with feathers is there? So how could this be an insult to anyone since it does not exist? Can't possibly hurt you, it's not real. Calm yourself.


This is the reason for political correctness isn't it? Everyone gets offended about something. If we are PC then we will not offend anyone. (off to gag.)


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Depends on your definition of "person", whether you are pro-choice or pro-life. I choose choice not pro abortion.


So, according to you babies are not people.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You can't have a decent debate with someone like that. Instead of rebutting the subject at hand, they attack the poster. Tsk tsk


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bombshellknits said:


> I thought I would read this topic, but so many rude comments scared me away. I think maybe this whole site just isn't for me. Peace out, all.


Yes it is, but really there are at least days, oh half days or hours or half hours, or mins. seconds when we actual act like human being. But it doesn't last long.

It really is a site to take all your agressions haterd and angry out on someone. Then you go about your day as a normal human beinging . 
And before the left has a field day. It is I, I am talking about(but it does include all of you too)


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The spirit of Ingried is powerful indeed.


Not in me. I can't stomach the, ah...mmpfff...mmm...errr...person.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ho do we put G-d in school? Who's G_d? Which prayers do we use, which bible do we use? No one is forbidden to pray in school if they want.


There is only one God.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Police forces have been downsized in America. They are spread very thin. The FBI and ATF should step up and help work on this problem.


And that is why, depending on where you live, you are sometimes told you are on your own and need to protect yourselves until help can arrive.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This is the reason for political correctness isn't it? Everyone gets offended about something. If we are PC then we will not offend anyone. (off to gag.)


Janeway is the one who got upset. Maybe you need to read more carefully who is posting what before you go "off to gag" Makes you seem a little silly doesn't it. That's OK, nobody is perfect.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Not in me. I can't stomach the, ah...mmpfff...mmm...errr...person.


Sounds like someone needs an exorcism to expel the Zugzwang demons--or are your pradas suddenly too tight?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So sorry you took offense. I'll try harder. I should mention that phrase came from my father-in-law. He didn't want to offend his wife. He did claim Native American heritage.



GWPlver said:


> :hunf:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And that is why, depending on where you live, you are sometimes told you are on your own and need to protect yourselves until help can arrive.


And who is debating against that? Nobody has said that guns in general should be outlawed. Just a ban on military type assault weapons.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thanks, but Damemary AKA SNoozi_Suzi, used it in a cursing manner. People have used it for years as a slam against the American Indians!
> 
> Well, I learn something new every day. Even here in the heart of Mohegan and Mashantucket Pequots, I never knew that term to be a slur.
> 
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Do you have a source for the Medicare issue and cancer patients receiving drugs? I do know that one pharmaceutical company ran out of a certain drug but have heard nothing about the other. I have personal experience with cancer and still see an oncologist so this is news to me.


The sequester has taken 2% out of payments to providers. Drug costs are exceedingly high. Doctors are allowed to add 6% to the cost of these drugs. So now they are only getting 4% profit from administering these drugs. At this rate they will be losing a lot of money and felt they had to cut down on the patient load.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And that is why, depending on where you live, you are sometimes told you are on your own and need to protect yourselves until help can arrive.


And that's OK with you? Isn't it important to have enough funds for police protection? Why can't we have some tax increases on the wealthiest among us to help pay for this stuff? The only reason I can see to coddle the rich is if you belong to that class.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What's your point, maysmom?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're wrong. Ingried is very busy and not sure she wants the aggravation of returning.



Janeway said:


> She was thrown off KP for her hateful remarks, but we know she will or has returned under another name.
> 
> LillyK also was thrown off but we know she is back. She was ConnanK among other names.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds like someone needs an exorcism to expel the Zugzwang demons--or are your pradas suddenly too tight?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Please explain what you are meaning with this Hunf?


I was a "Huh" meaning, I don't understand how bull feathers is cursing. I don't know what a Hunf is.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> You're wrong. Ingried is very busy and not sure she wants the aggravation of returning.


Remember the righties who were thrown off this forum??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Most states are struggling with their budgets. It has to come from somewhere. Interesting to see what happens. I do know everything is not President or Mrs. Obama's fault entirely.



GWPlver said:


> Maybe cut this program and encourage the states to start one if they don't already have some sort of program in place. Cuts waste and takes it to a state level.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Apparently you did not read all that is out there. The cuts in drugs will affect clinic as medicare is being cut. Try reading agin. Doctors will be cutting back on patients as drugs are to expensive and they will be cutting patient back. From what I have read in papers and heard on news and read on doctor sites it is going down. They will cut patients off as they can mot afford it. Try looking at Medscapes site.


I thought that was what I was saying- the clinics will suffer. But if the patient goes to the hospital, the will receive the drugs. Some insurance companies, like Medicare, require certain procedures to be performed in a hospital as opposed to a clinic or doctor's office.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You consider yourself locked and loaded. Go for it and I wish you luck.

Also be careful firing a weapon around an oxygen tank. Big boom.



Janeway said:


> My 38 handgun has a laser bead so I know where it will hit. It also is hammerless and I take the police handgun course yearly with a perfect score! Anymore questions!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bull feathers is cursing?? LOL! Much better than using Bull sh_t!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Also must add that we are on #6, on here and if you post facts they are either ignored, or you are told you don't know what you are talking about, my favorite is show me your facts so I won't have to look it up. 

The other thing is if they can't except what you are saying in your opinion it's time to call out the big guns and let lose with the name calling. They espeacial love that one. 

MOst on here not all are good at name calling. Then they will tell you how nice they really are. 
You need skin of an alliagator, nails of a cat, and some have minds like a steel trap, they must close at a certain time.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> How have you been personally affected by all the waste? What is it that you need that you are not getting? Do you contact your senators and representatives and complain when they spend foolishly so they know you are unhappy?


The more money that is wasted, the more my taxes go up. Instead of correcting a problem, the gov't wants to create a new problem by doing the exact same thing but with another name. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The more money that is wasted, the more my taxes go up. Instead of correcting a problem, the gov't wants to create a new problem by doing the exact same thing but with another name. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


And isn't congress great at that? There is always a new dramatic emergency with them.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Andrea - You look mavelous darling! Love the new hairdo. :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought it was okay to use judging from the Anti-Semitic remarks you thought were fine because you didn't mean anything by it. (Did you get the 'my father-in-law is Native American' justification? Kinda like 'my best friend is..."

Quite frankly I'm looking forward to opinions on 'bull feathers.' Maybe I can receive ideas.

Good for the goose......good for the gander.



theyarnlady said:


> And to think some of you on the left called me racist and a bigot. Seem your understand and not wanting to starting anything and all are into facts. Has been brought to the mud with this remark to Janeway.
> 
> Good one Damemary, you really have shown what you are really like.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The more money that is wasted, the more my taxes go up. Instead of correcting a problem, the gov't wants to create a new problem by doing the exact same thing but with another name. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


Which of your taxes have gone up and by what percent? Are you talking property, payroll, what kind?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I thought that was what I was saying- the clinics will suffer. But if the patient goes to the hospital, the will receive the drugs. Some insurance companies, like Medicare, require certain procedures to be performed in a hospital as opposed to a clinic or doctor's office.


and how long do you think it will be before hospital down grade patients? They have to deal with medicare cuts, and how do you think they will be able to handle lose of money? i for one am worried about what will happen when ACA goes into full effect.

It is still madness, and when a clinic can't help a patient why would you expect a hospital to hand on to it. Worry I think I would worry.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea - You look mavelous darling! Love the new hairdo. :thumbup:


Haven't made it out the door. Couldn't pull myself away from this fascinating group now that I understand the difference between automatic and semi-automatic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I thought it was okay to use judging from the Anti-Semitic remarks you thought were fine because you didn't mean anything by it. (Did you get the 'my father-in-law is Native American' justification? Kinda like 'my best friend is..."
> 
> Quite frankly I'm looking forward to opinions on 'bull feathers.' Maybe I can receive ideas.
> 
> Good for the goose......good for the gander.


How is bull feathers a slur to Native Americans? I always took it as "a bull doesn't have feathers/your point has no foundation"


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I always wonder if the "lock down" procedure as practiced as my son's school is suitable for California. The teacher locks the door, turns off the light, and the kids crawl under their desks--sensible if all the classrooms are in one building and you have to go down an open corridor to get outside. But a lot of West Coast schools are built with earthquake safety in mind and open directly onto the playground...wouldn't it be better to send the kids out with instruction to run in thirty different directions?


Sometimes a "lock down" is for something that is happening outside of the school, in the general vacinity. I.e. when there is an escaped convict or the police are chasing a criminal. It would be done so this criminal can't gain access to the school.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> I thought it was okay to use judging from the Anti-Semitic remarks you thought were fine because you didn't mean anything by it. (Did you get the 'my father-in-law is Native American' justification? Kinda like 'my best friend is..."
> 
> Quite frankly I'm looking forward to opinions on 'bull feathers.' Maybe I can receive ideas.
> 
> Good for the goose......good for the gander.


Just plain stupid, must be a brain drain day for me. Oh my I know whats wrong I left them out this morning when I got up. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I thought it was okay to use judging from the Anti-Semitic remarks you thought were fine because you didn't mean anything by it. (Did you get the 'my father-in-law is Native American' justification? Kinda like 'my best friend is..."
> 
> Quite frankly I'm looking forward to opinions on 'bull feathers.' Maybe I can receive ideas.
> 
> Good for the goose......good for the gander.


Sort of sounds the same doesn't it? I guess in some people's world what is good for the goose ain't good for the gander. I wonder which one we are damemary? I'm confused now :roll:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sometimes a "lock down" is for something that is happening outside of the school, in the general vacinity. I.e. when there is an escaped convict or the police are chasing a criminal. It would be done so this criminal can't gain access to the school.


I have been in two lock down situations at school when a crazy person was seen on the street brandishing a gun. Doors locked, kids down, everyone away from windows until all clear.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't it awful that young children have to go to school with the thought of being massacred on their minds? Talk about losing innocense at such a young age. And Wayne LaPierre thinks this is ok. Having armed guards at school is a great idea according to him and his NRA. Wouldn't a child be frightened by that sight?


I would imagine no more frightened by an armed police officer at McDonalds.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> So sorry you took offense. I'll try harder. I should mention that phrase came from my father-in-law. He didn't want to offend his wife. He did claim Native American heritage.


Apparently, I don't know a hunf from a huh. I meant, I don't understand how this is considered cursing. Sorry!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I wouldn't call the super-wealthy wage earners!! What are you smoking? The wealthy on an hourly wage? Dream on. And yes, we need job growth, but raising taxes on the wealthy won't be detrimental to that blah blah blah.


First of all,alleging that I smoke or take illegal drugs is slanderous. Please stop with your false accusations.

Define super wealthy. 45K, 120K, 175K,225K........

And did your so called super-wealthy not earn their money? Did they rob banks? Did they use cyber attacks? No they pay more than their fair share. Your thinking punishes people that work hard, take risks, and live the American Dream. Your thinking rewards people into thinking they are entitled to someone else's money.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/12/news/economy/rich-taxes/index.html

Why would anyone want to make more money and improve their lives so they could be bumped into a higher tax bracket and be demonized? They wouldn't, they don't, that is sad


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Be careful. Response time and mobility effect aim also.



Janeway said:


> When my husband worked, he traveled so after my heart condition, we were robbed while I was in cardiac rehab so my husband bought this handgun and I learned how to shoot this weapon. Senior service bus picked me up so the driver noticed the broken door and called police.
> 
> My husband already had a gun permit as he worked in a high crime area so I applied for one and was given a lifetime permit. The sheriff's dept took a print of every finger and when they saw my handwritten birth certificate with water marks from the doctor who put the lead pencil in his mouth and said "no one" would go to this much trouble to make a BC like yours!
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh fun the leftiest are becoming the righties


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Most states are struggling with their budgets. It has to come from somewhere. Interesting to see what happens. I do know everything is not President or Mrs. Obama's fault entirely.


IMO, it's more Congress and Senate faults. They act like 5 year olds. Wait, 5 years old act better than that....


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think any children were killed in that attack.
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

There is a brain drain warning being issued, as it seems to be happening on the left side again.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> There is only one God.


And what God is the only God?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Janeway is the one who got upset. Maybe you need to read more carefully who is posting what before you go "off to gag" Makes you seem a little silly doesn't it. That's OK, nobody is perfect.


Janeway got upset THIS time. Others have in this thread in the past and previous separate threads. My comment was totally general and not aimed at any one person. I do not need to read more carefully, thank you.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Also must add that we are on #6, on here and if you post facts they are either ignored, or you are told you don't know what you are talking about, my favorite is show me your facts so I won't have to look it up.
> 
> The other thing is if they can't except what you are saying in your opinion it's time to call out the big guns and let lose with the name calling. They espeacial love that one.
> 
> ...


Or maybe we ask to post facts or sources so some of us can read them and learn more. I like to look at both sides of an issue before I make a general statement.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> There is a brain drain warning being issued, as it seems to be happening on the left side again.


Is that really necessary, yarnlady?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Jodif77 said:


> You wont get any of the lefties to respond to this....they abhor common sense like vampires hate sunlight.


I have heard "lefties" say the same about "righties".


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh this is just to funny there are sixty different subjects going on and no one has proven anything but what they think is right. What a mess, do any of you have any idea how stupid you sound on the left???


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I read that also. I think they can only reach Guam or close to it. I'm not sure what is behind Little Kim rattling his saber right now but it can't be a good thing.


Go to www.democracynow.org and read Christine Hong's piece on North Korea. Try it, you will get an interesting viewpoint


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jodif77 said:


> If a trained gunman is guarding the doors there wont be any problem. People like adam lanza are cowards. They take the path of least resistance.


And you would swear to that? No one can make absolute statements, there is always the exception to the rule.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh this is just to funny there are sixty different subjects going on and no one has proven anything but what they think is right. What a mess, do any of you have any idea how stupid you sound on the left???


Other than coming across as somewhat rude, I don't quite get the meaning of this post. Is anyone really trying to prove what they think is right or are we putting issues and info out to discuss? Is there no way to so politely?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> And what God is the only God?


Oh good another country heard from, and she doesn't think the left has said anything. I so agree they havn't said anything.

Don't worry about God he will take care of it, just wait and see.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> First of all,alleging that I smoke or take illegal drugs is slanderous. Please stop with your false accusations.
> 
> Define super wealthy. 45K, 120K, 175K,225K........
> 
> ...


I'll check out this article. We get the magazine, too. I don't think the wealthy work any harder than the average Joe and I'm not alleging you smoke. It was a question from an astonishing statement you made. Most people who make a lot of money don't let a little thing like taxes impede their making more. I don't hate the rich or demonize anyone. I believe they along with corporations who are now "people" don't pay their fair share. We simply disagree on this point and we're both entitled to believe what we will. Nobody loves to pay more in taxes, but guess what? Sometimes you have to. That's the price of running our country.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh this is just to funny there are sixty different subjects going on and no one has proven anything but what they think is right. What a mess, do any of you have any idea how stupid you sound on the left???


Why do this yarnlady? You are the only one doing any name calling here. Insulting people because of their views is just immature. If you can't keep up with the conversations, well...


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Go to www.democracynow.org and read Christine Hong's piece on North Korea. Try it, you will get an interesting viewpoint


Thank you, I will do that. I appreciate you sharing this.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Other than coming across as somewhat rude, I don't quite get the meaning of this post. Is anyone really trying to prove what they think is right or are we putting issues and info out to discuss? Is there no way to so politely?


only as rude as the left has been, what's good for the goosers as some like to point out is a bunch of ganders to me.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And that's OK with you? Isn't it important to have enough funds for police protection? Why can't we have some tax increases on the wealthiest among us to help pay for this stuff? The only reason I can see to coddle the rich is if you belong to that class.


Never said it was OK with me. This is what we have to deal with here and now. I will protect myself while I wait for help. I'm not coddling the rich, which I am very sorry you are so envious of. That's you're only answer, tax the rich more. It's going to take alot more than just rising taxes on the rich to get out of this debt.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have been in two lock down situations at school when a crazy person was seen on the street brandishing a gun. Doors locked, kids down, everyone away from windows until all clear.


My son has been in one (aside from the drills)--a man the police were trying to arrest started running and jumped the school fence. They caught him very quickly and he never made to any of the classroom wings...does the lock down procedure officially or unofficially change to "run for your lives" if the guy with gun gets inside a classroom?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> only as rude as the left has been, what's good for the goosers as some like to point out is a bunch of ganders to me.


So , you don't contribute anything to the topics being discussed, you only put them down for doing so. I see now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Never said it was OK with me. This is what we have to deal with here and now. I will protect myself while I wait for help. I'm not coddling the rich, which I am very sorry you are so envious of. That's you're only answer, tax the rich more. It's going to take alot more than just rising taxes on the rich to get out of this debt.


I don't think we should tax them more, just pull the loopholes that Bush gave them. If we pay a certain percentage of taxes for wages earned, then their's should be the same.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why do this yarnlady? You are the only one doing any name calling here. Insulting people because of their views is just immature. If you can't keep up with the conversations, well...


Because it has become beyond belief and where have I insulted any one by saying left , and what views are you speaking of???

Why I don't have to show mature on this site, is that most haven't shown any of it either.

As to name calling you really must read the whole day and who has done name calling.

I don't want to keep up with what the left name calling again is saying, as I do not agree with it. I also would have like to see some facts from the left as that is something they never do.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Because it has become beyond belief and where have I insulted any one by saying left , and what views are you speaking of???
> 
> Why I don't have to show mature on this site, is that most haven't shown any of it either.
> 
> ...


Go back and read the posts you made. You called the "lefties"
stupid. I will no longer respond to anything you post as it seems to me that you just want to make trouble.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Sorry, but you are wrong as last year at graduation, the valedictory speaker forbid prayer and it was not done. But of course he got his 15 minutes of fame as all the TV stations picked it up and he got to say his words--just like a spoiled brat!


You do not have to pray openly.......you can o it privately anywhere. I personally resent prayers read in school. they are not fro my bible, unless it's the Old Testament. What about the Muslims? Should we use a Koran? What about Buddhism? Since we have no national religion and church and state are separate what should we use?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> only as rude as the left has been, what's good for the goosers as some like to point out is a bunch of ganders to me.


No, it's not. Just creates more negativity.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So , you don't contribute anything to the topics being discussed, you only put them down for doing so. I see now.


I have contribute more than you ever had or will, fact that is what it is called. You might want to try it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds like someone needs an exorcism to expel the Zugzwang demons--or are your pradas suddenly too tight?


No pradas for me. I'm a practical shoes kinda gal.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, according to you babies are not people.


Fetuses are not people babies are people.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, go ahead. Ingried isn't here to be bothered by it, but her admirers will comment if your comments are mean-spirited.



thumper5316 said:


> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> ...


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It does seem like yesterday. I don't miss him. He was evil! Shame those innocent people believed in him. Shows we have to watch who we worship.


When Jim Jones orchestrated that mass murder, nearly every member of Jonestown did not drink that KoolAid willingly, most certainly the babies and children. And the adults who refused were shot to death.

Karen N.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> There is only one God.[/quo
> 
> Elaborate please!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:



> No pradas for me. I'm a practical shoes kinda gal.


Not to mention they are very expensive. I could make a car payment for that a pair costs.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Not to mention they are very expensive. I could make a car payment for that a pair costs.


lol GW! I couldnt walk in them. After 2 foot surgeries, it's no more heels for me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're so wrong it's funny. So many people admire Ingried....don't you think there might be a reason? She 'should be dead as she was thrown off KP.' And she's 'horrible?' And many of us do know her personally. So watch it.



Janeway said:


> Where did you get this untruthful info about Ingried? It is time to let that horrible person be dead as she was "Thrown" off KP!
> 
> Cheeky, take another topic and let this go as I'm sure you did "not" know her! You and others are just trying to be funny without success?
> 
> You are sooooo funny!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm trying.



Lukelucy said:


> Boy, Ingried is/was the worst!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No, that you really have specific instances to back up what you're saying.



soloweygirl said:


> Help you understand what? That there is waste in government?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe we could dig a moat around all the schools....with alligators.



soloweygirl said:


> But no so from alligators, deer and moose. (Depending of course on where you live.)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

maysmom said:


> When Jim Jones orchestrated that mass murder, nearly every member of Jonestown did not drink that KoolAid willingly, most certainly the babies and children. And the adults who refused were shot to death.
> 
> Karen N.


It's an interesting case--was it murder or suicide? There were a handful of survivors, and according to their testimony some Jonestown residents were so eager to drink the stuff that they actually pushed their way to the front of the line. Others refused and were forcibly injected with cyanide--some 80 bodies out of 900+ had needle marks on their arms.

Frankly I'm not sure how would have been willing to die in less bizarre circumstances, but Jim Jones ground his followers down pretty thoroughly in his jungle paradise with grueling work schedules, brainwashing sessions, and a horribly inadequate diet. It's always seemed terribly ironic to me that even at the end he considered Kool-Aid to precious to waste on his subjects--the cyanide was mixed with a cheapo knockoff product called Flavour Aid.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very haunting memory.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What new prejudice are you illustrating?

Welcome rocky.

Pictures of projects are under 'Pictures.' If you're interested Jane, that's the place to look.



Janeway said:


> Rocky, tell me true are you of the male gender who knits? If so please post some of your work.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's an interesting case--was it murder or suicide? There were a handful of survivors, and according to their testimony some Jonestown residents were so eager to drink the stuff that they actually pushed their way to the front of the line. Others refused and were forcibly injected with cyanide--some 80 bodies out of 900+ had needle marks on their arms.
> 
> Frankly I'm not sure how would have been willing to die in less bizarre circumstances, but Jim Jones ground his followers down pretty thoroughly in his jungle paradise with grueling work schedules, brainwashing sessions, and a horribly inadequate diet. It's always seemed terribly ironic to me that even at the end he considered Kool-Aid to precious to waste on his followers--the cyanide was mixed with a cheapo knockoff product called Flavour Aid.


The vast majority did not go willingly to their deaths. They were brainwashed, overworked, and malnourished, and terrified. Those who wanted to leave were shot at, and only a few managed to escape.

Karen N.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I found this site to be useful on the Guyana massacre.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/12/jonestown.factsheet/index.html?_s=PM:US


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Very haunting memory.


It is, and a frightening lesson in how completely people's will to live can be broken down--shades of North Korea, unfortunately. Maybe Little Kim has reading up on the subject.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I was a "Huh" meaning, I don't understand how bull feathers is cursing. I don't know what a Hunf is.


This is the Hunf!

:hunf:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> You're wrong. Ingried is very busy and not sure she wants the aggravation of returning.


I really do not care to know about that hateful person so get a different topic.l


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Oh, go ahead. Ingried isn't here to be bothered by it, but her admirers will comment if your comments are mean-spirited.


You can take her where the sun won't shine! Let it go!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> What new prejudice are you illustrating?
> 
> Welcome rocky.
> 
> Pictures of projects are under 'Pictures.' If you're interested Jane, that's the place to look.


Still sticking your long nose in where it is it wanted!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You do not have to pray openly.......you can o it privately anywhere. I personally resent prayers read in school. they are not fro my bible, unless it's the Old Testament. What about the Muslims? Should we use a Koran? What about Buddhism? Since we have no national religion and church and state are separate what should we use?


Well, thank you but again you are wrong as my people were stripped of our religion of "many" gods and were beaten or killed unless we accepted the Christian faith of your forefathers. We were not allowed to pick & choose what we wanted it was forced so don't tell me I have a right to practice my religion.

The American Indians lost that right by signing a peace treaty! Some Indians in Florida did not sign a peace treaty until 1976.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Out for dinner!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> There is only one God.


His Name is Jehovah. The Almighty God. The Everlasitng Father. The Great I AM The Creator. Seems like someone that is Jewish would know that answer. Wonder why Rocky is asking us that, Thumper?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, thank you but again you are wrong as my people were stripped of our religion of "many" gods and were beaten or killed unless we accepted the Christian faith of your forefathers. We were not allowed to pick & choose what we wanted it was forced so don't tell me I have a right to practice my religion.
> 
> The American Indians lost that right by signing a peace treaty! Some Indians in Florida did not sign a peace treaty until 1976.


Have you seen the T shirt with a group of Native Americans with guns and the title is Homeland Security? I love it! People tend to forget that the great majority of "Americans" are all immegrants.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, thank you but again you are wrong as my people were stripped of our religion of "many" gods and were beaten or killed unless we accepted the Christian faith of your forefathers. We were not allowed to pick & choose what we wanted it was forced so don't tell me I have a right to practice my religion.
> 
> The American Indians lost that right by signing a peace treaty! Some Indians in Florida did not sign a peace treaty until 1976.


The Jewish people faced the Inquisition and were forced to convert some actually did but others Morenos, converted but kept their faith secret. Please do not talk to me about religious persecution. My people have been there for over 5000 years. If anyone can sympathize with you and your people it is me.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> His Name is Jehovah. The Almighty God. The Everlasitng Father. The Great I AM The Creator. Seems like someone that is Jewish would know that answer. Wonder why Rocky is asking us that, Thumper?


Because I do not believe in the messiah Jesus nor do I care for any organized religion. what about Allah, Buddha and myriads of other religions?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Fetuses are not people babies are people.


Fetuses are babies. The Nazis reduced the Jews to the status of animals in order for them to feel enabled to dispose and experiment on them at will. Just because you dehumanize them by calling them something different than what they, in reality, are doesn't change the fact that they are human babies.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Fetuses are babies. The Nazis reduced the Jews to the status of animals in order for them to feel enabled to dispose and experiment on them at will. Just because you dehumanize them by calling them something different than what they, in reality, are doesn't change the fact that they are human babies.


I still call them fetuses not babies.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Because I do not believe in the messiah Jesus nor do I care for any organized religion. what about Allah, Buddha and myriads of other religions?


If you are Jewish you believe in the God I mentioned.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Fetuses are babies. The Nazis reduced the Jews to the status of animals in order for them to feel enabled to dispose and experiment on them at will. Just because you dehumanize them by calling them something different than what they, in reality, are doesn't change the fact that they are human babies.


Some people's religion believe there is not human life until ensoulment, which happens at birth, not conception


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I still call them fetuses not babies.


So if your daughter or daughter in law is pregnant you say she is having a fetus? I don't understand that kind of talk. Are you just kidding us? Or for real?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > There is only one God.
> ...


Ok. When it comes to The Almighty Lord God on High, there is only one.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Some people's religion believe there is not human life until ensoulment, which happens at birth, not conception


Read in the Old Testiment in Psalms 139. Maybe that will help you understand why I believe a baby is a living human.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Have you seen the T shirt with a group of Native Americans with guns and the title is Homeland Security? I love it! People tend to forget that the great majority of "Americans" are all immegrants.


Go back far enough and even those that we refer to as the Native Americans were, at one time, immigrants. At what generation removed does one need to stop apologizing?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I still call them fetuses not babies.


You know we will never agree on this topic, therefore there is no reason to keep bringing it up. I do not want to discuss it anymore. Let's just agree to disagree.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Read in the Old Testiment in Psalms 139. Maybe that will help you understand why I believe a baby is a living human.


With respect, that is your belief and no one would expect you to have an abortion, but some others do not share your belief and they should have the right to make a private decision without your belief inhibiting their right or private decision.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> With respect, that is your belief and no one would expect you to have an abortion, but some others do not share your belief and they should have the right to make a private decision without your belief inhibiting their right or private decision.


Well said Peacegoddess, and very reasoned.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You know we will never agree on this topic, therefore there is no reason to keep bringing it up. I do not want to discuss it anymore. Let's just agree to disagree.


I would not agree in any way, shape, or form with anyone that thinks the murder of innocents is an ok thing. You're on your own with that one.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> With respect, that is your belief and no one would expect you to have an abortion, but some others do not share your belief and they should have the right to make a private decision without your belief inhibiting their right or private decision.


I agree it is up to the individual to do what they may think is right. I am not the judge. But I do go by scripture of the Most High God as my decision. I could have made the decision to abort my last baby because he was not planned. I kept him and love him. I would have regretted it if I chose to kill him. I feel sorry for the women I know that have aborted their babies. The all have all regretted it and will never be happy with the decision they made. But I repeat I am not the judge. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. God is not the pupitmaster. He gives us the right to be what we want to be even if we are wrong.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> With respect, that is your belief and no one would expect you to have an abortion, but some others do not share your belief and they should have the right to make a private decision without your belief inhibiting their right or private decision.


It's 'beliefs' like yours that allowed some of the most unspeakable things in history to have happened.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok. When it comes to The Almighty Lord God on High, there is only one.


That is your belief. But to some there are Allah, Yaweh, God, Buddah, the Godesses etc.
I am not saying that you are wrong to believe what you do, but to say there is only one god just isn't true for all people.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I would not agree in any way, shape, or form with anyone that thinks the murder of innocents is an ok thing. You're on your own with that one.


I am not alone, but it's ok I will never ask you to have an abortion.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree it is up to the individual to do what they may think is right. I am not the judge. But I do go by scripture of the Most High God as my decision. I could have made the decision to abort my last baby because he was not planned. I kept him and love him. I would have regretted it if I chose to kill him. I feel sorry for the women I know that have aborted their babies. The all have all regretted it and will never be happy with the decision they made. But I repeat I am not the judge. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. God is not the pupitmaster. He gives us the right to be what we want to be even if we are wrong.


Again, respectfully, you do not know about all women and whether they regret their decisions and whether they are happy or not. That in and of itself is a judgement on them by you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's 'beliefs' like yours that allowed some of the most unspeakable things in history to have happened.


come come thunper.........you are being very self righteous. You say you believe in G-d. Let him/her judge.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Go back far enough and even those that we refer to as the Native Americans were, at one time, immigrants. At what generation removed does one need to stop apologizing?


I am not asking people to apologise, just get off the "illegal immegrant" horse and recognize we are all of immigrant stock. And let us just recognize that Native Americans were here for a really really long time before the rest of us came as "discoverers" or immigrants at a more recent time.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Again, respectfully, you do not know about all women and whether they regret their decisions and whether they are happy or not. That in and of itself is a judgement on them by you.


I said all the woman I know that have had abortions are unhappy they did it. Not all women. I don't know all women . Spinning my words. Most were not women they were teenagers.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree it is up to the individual to do what they may think is right. I am not the judge. But I do go by scripture of the Most High God as my decision. I could have made the decision to abort my last baby because he was not planned. I kept him and love him. I would have regretted it if I chose to kill him. I feel sorry for the women I know that have aborted their babies. The all have regretted it and will never be happy with the decision they made. But I repeat I am not the judge. Everyone has the right to believe what they want. God is not the pupitmaster. He gives us the right to be what we want to be even if we are wrong.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's 'beliefs' like yours that allowed some of the most unspeakable things in history to have happened.


Are you sure about that? And only on one side?


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I thought this was interesting....Obama Emphasizes Cesar Chavez Day Instead of Easter Sunday

04/02/13 Leave it to Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit to expose Obama!
He exposed how much more emphasis he placed on Cesar Chavez day than Easter.

Barack Obama delivered a 117 word, one paragraph statement for Easter. Obama delivered a 664 word, 12 paragraph statement for Cesar Chavez Day You can read both statements here:http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130402007-o-chavez.html


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'll check out this article. We get the magazine, too. I don't think the wealthy work any harder than the average Joe and I'm not alleging you smoke. It was a question from an astonishing statement you made. Most people who make a lot of money don't let a little thing like taxes impede their making more. I don't hate the rich or demonize anyone. I believe they along with corporations who are now "people" don't pay their fair share. We simply disagree on this point and we're both entitled to believe what we will. Nobody loves to pay more in taxes, but guess what? Sometimes you have to. That's the price of running our country.


Well, if taxes need to be raised, then there should be double the amount of cuts. We will spend more this year than last year. How can we spend more this year and need more money? Just cut the percentage of increases by 2%, then we would not need tax increases.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup, Cesar Chavez is more important than anything else in our country. God help us. This president is ruining us.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You know the answer. Raise tax rate on the rich and plug up the loopholes. Let's make corporations pay taxes.


Something to consider: we're all going to suffer.Obama seeks deal, proposes cuts to Social Security
ANDREW TAYLOR, AP
2 hours ago
news-national-20130405-US--Obama-Budget

WASHINGTON (AP)  Seeking an elusive middle ground, President Barack Obama is proposing a 2014 budget that embraces tax increases abhorred by Republicans as well as reductions, loathed by liberals, in the growth of Social Security and other benefit programs.

The plan, if ever enacted, could touch almost all Americans. The rich would see tax increases, the poor and the elderly would get smaller annual increases in their benefits, and middle income taxpayers would slip into higher tax brackets despite Obama's repeated vows not to add to the tax burden of the middle class. His proposed changes, once phased in, would mean a cut in Social Security benefits of nearly $1,000 a year for an average 85-year-old, smaller cuts for younger retirees.

Obama proposed much the same without success to House Speaker John Boehner in December. The response Friday was dismissive from Republicans and hostile from liberals, labor and advocates for the elderly.

But the proposal aims to tackle worrisome deficits that are adding to the national debt and placing a long-term burden on the nation, prompting praise from independent deficit hawks. Obama's budget also proposes new spending for public works projects, pre-school education and for job and benefit assistance for veterans.
read more here:http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20130405/US--Obama-Budget/


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

momeee said:


> I thought this was interesting....Obama Emphasizes Cesar Chavez Day Instead of Easter Sunday
> 
> 04/02/13 Leave it to Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit to expose Obama!
> He exposed how much more emphasis he placed on Cesar Chavez day than Easter.
> ...


Boy, this really makes me feel sorry for Obama and his family. Supposedly they live in the White House, but really it's a glorified fishbowl in which their every word and action can be scrutinized with meticulous care. During the Benghazi crisis some folks had nothing better to do than monitor the President's dinner plate (to see if he was eating), his phone lines, and his bedroom. Now these same people feel it's of vital interest to count each and every word of his speeches and then crunch the numbers. Please!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup, Cesar Chavez is more important than anything else in our country. God help us. This president is ruining us.


Hardly. A world leader is expected to speak when another leader dies. Do you think he was the only one who gave a speech? People who count the number of words in a speech have way too much time on their hands. 
I read the speech and nowhere in that speech does the President say that Chavez is more important to him than the American people. You made this up in your own mind.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Well, if taxes need to be raised, then there should be double the amount of cuts. We will spend more this year than last year. How can we spend more this year and need more money? Just cut the percentage of increases by 2%, then we would not need tax increases.


My opinion is that we are already experiencing the effect of spending cuts. Teachers are being laid off, government workers are being furloughed, roads and bridges are in need of repair, police and fire services have been cut back.
One of the things to remember is that everything costs more from year to year. Don't you see that happening in your household expenses? As an example, if the company that provides your electricity raises their rates, you have little recourse but to try to conserve on electricity and then just pay the bill. If you've considered all your other expenses and there's no place to cut back, you have to find more revenue or do without. How can we expect the government to function smoothly on less and less money from year to year? I understand trying to cut out waste (different things to different people) but the bottom line is that we need more revenue. It doesn't make sense to me to try to do away with needed services. I would like to see some government projects that would create jobs and result in something beneficial to us like the WPA (was that what it was called) or something similar. There are no easy answers.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Something to consider: we're all going to suffer.Obama seeks deal, proposes cuts to Social Security
> ANDREW TAYLOR, AP
> 2 hours ago
> news-national-20130405-US--Obama-Budget
> ...


I'm absolutely opposed to cuts in SS for seniors and disabled people and the President has already heard from me more than once.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

momeee said:


> I thought this was interesting....Obama Emphasizes Cesar Chavez Day Instead of Easter Sunday
> 
> 04/02/13 Leave it to Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit to expose Obama!
> He exposed how much more emphasis he placed on Cesar Chavez day than Easter.
> ...


 I don't celebrate Easter, but I do admire a man who helped thousands of workers achieve wage parity and decent working conditions. Why should there be comparison between the two?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I agree. Look how many jobs can be created by repairing our infrastructure alone. We need to bring manufacturing jobs back to America. 
I hear too many complaining that the president is not creating enough jobs. It is not his job to create jobs. It's entrepeneurs that create jobs. Supply and demand create jobs.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Janeway got upset THIS time. Others have in this thread in the past and previous separate threads. My comment was totally general and not aimed at any one person. I do not need to read more carefully, thank you.


Then please do not attach your posts to mine in the future. That is what you did on page 37. Good day, madam.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I'm absolutely opposed to cuts in SS for seniors and disabled people and the President has already heard from me more than once.


Proposed cuts to social security is not unique to Obama. Reference Paul Ryan


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Proposed cuts to social security is not unique to Obama. Reference Paul Ryan


Oh, I know Paul Ryan and his budget! Worse yet!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I said all the woman I know that have had abortions are unhappy they did it. Not all women. I don't know all women . Spinning my words. Most were not women they were teenagers.


I was not trying to spin your words. I miss read and apologize for that. Teens are young women and it is not an easy decision to make especially if you are very young.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Social Security is solvent for the next 3 decades. It does not add to the national debt. I don't think Obama will go along with Paul Ryan in lessening the benefits that people receive. I doubt that Obama wants this as his legacy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I cannot figure what Obama wants for his legacy. I am afraid he is going to approve the tar sands.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You can take her where the sun won't shine! Let it go!


Oh Janeway don't be that way. No one really knows where Ingried is at any given time she could be right here in the middle of us or off doing something amazing. I think you are just a little bit jealous that we are her friends. She finds us when she finds us and we have so much fun together and such fascinating conversations.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I cannot figure what Obama wants for his legacy. I am afraid he is going to approve the tar sands.


I thought it was ultimately the State Department's call.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, thank you but again you are wrong as my people were stripped of our religion of "many" gods and were beaten or killed unless we accepted the Christian faith of your forefathers. We were not allowed to pick & choose what we wanted it was forced so don't tell me I have a right to practice my religion.
> 
> The American Indians lost that right by signing a peace treaty! Some Indians in Florida did not sign a peace treaty until 1976.


Janeway why can't you practice your religion? Can't you go back to the old ways of your people? There s no law against it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If the CPI is on the table, I would hope that it wouldn't pass the house and senate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If the CPI is on the table, I would hope that it wouldn't pass the house and senate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

oops! Sorry for the double post


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Maybe that ugly mess in Arkansas will change his mind.
Refering to peacegodess about the tar sands


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh Janeway don't be that way. No one really knows where Ingried is at any given time she could be right here in the middle of us or off doing something amazing. I think you are just a little bit jealous that we are her friends. She finds us when she finds us and we have so much fun together and such fascinating conversations.


Yes, Ingried does seem to get around--constantly hopping from thread to thread and site to site. No one seems immune to her presence--the rightists least of all. Just say the name and they turn purple in the face. The woman is powerful.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok. When it comes to The Almighty Lord God on High, there is only one.


How do you know that thumper. Millions of people have come and gone from the planet and there are millions who don't believe what you do. Are they all wrong and you are right? What kind of diety is that that only cares about a small fraction of the people who have ever lived? Sounds like a pretty incredibly cruel one or maybe not a god at all. Maybe there are many paths to what you call God. Isn't that possible? Maybe Jesus is just a prophet for a few people like yourself and others have their own prophets or gods to teach them. Think about it.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> How do you know that thumper. Millions of people have come and gone from the planet and there are millions who don't believe what you do. Are they all wrong and you are right? What kind of diety is that that only cares about a small fraction of the people who have ever lived? Sounds like a pretty incredibly cruel one or maybe not a god at all. Maybe there are many paths to what you call God. Isn't that possible? Maybe Jesus is just a prophet for a few people like yourself and others have their own prophets or gods to teach them. Think about it.


I'm impressed. I rarely do this, being northern English and therefore repressed, but :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> I thought this was interesting....Obama Emphasizes Cesar Chavez Day Instead of Easter Sunday
> 
> 04/02/13 Leave it to Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit to expose Obama!
> He exposed how much more emphasis he placed on Cesar Chavez day than Easter.
> ...


What's your point? We are not a Christian nation. The President is leader of all Americans, Christians and all others. He is not a preacher and remember that we have separation of church and state so the President should not be promoting religious holidays but only wishing Christian Americans Happy Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. etc. to practitioners of whatever faith on their religious holidays. Got it?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Hmm, no response.

Does anyone else feel a sudden drop in the barometric pressure? Feels like a storm is about to break overhead.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> My opinion is that we are already experiencing the effect of spending cuts. Teachers are being laid off, government workers are being furloughed, roads and bridges are in need of repair, police and fire services have been cut back.
> One of the things to remember is that everything costs more from year to year. Don't you see that happening in your household expenses? As an example, if the company that provides your electricity raises their rates, you have little recourse but to try to conserve on electricity and then just pay the bill. If you've considered all your other expenses and there's no place to cut back, you have to find more revenue or do without. How can we expect the government to function smoothly on less and less money from year to year? I understand trying to cut out waste (different things to different people) but the bottom line is that we need more revenue. It doesn't make sense to me to try to do away with needed services. I would like to see some government projects that would create jobs and result in something beneficial to us like the WPA (was that what it was called) or something similar. There are no easy answers.


Didn't we have a stimulus that was money for 'shovel ready jobs'? Well he failed at that

Didn't payroll taxes go up 2% in January? There is your added 'revenue', so why do we need more?

If I have to cut my budget by 5%, the Federal government should have to cut their budget by 5%

Didn't Obama sign an Executive Order giving Federal Employees a raise last Christmas? Where did that money come from?

Why not cut the percentage of increases that are automatically put into the budget? If a budget was to have an increase of 7%, why not an increase of 2%?

I had asked the question before, but never had an answer. My income has not increased in 4 years, my expenses and taxes have increased in the past 4 years. My health insurance has doubled in the past 4 years. Where am I to get the money for more taxes? What am I to cut? What is the government going to cut?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup, Cesar Chavez is more important than anything else in our country. God help us. This president is ruining us.


This is not a Christian nation and the President is not a Christian preacher. He should not make a big deal about anyone's religion except to wish them a nice holiday, whatever that holiday is they celebrate. Please do not try to force your beliefs on your fellow citizens. Practice what you believe and let the rest of us believe what we think is right. Thank you.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I thought it was ultimately the State Department's call.


the state dept makes a reccomendation and her ultimately decides


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I cannot figure what Obama wants for his legacy. I am afraid he is going to approve the tar sands.


Just what we need along with the pipeline and fracking, not!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter, I think we have met before 
I do agree that the Keystone could be a calamity.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Didn't we have a stimulus that was money for 'shovel ready jobs'? Well he failed at that
> 
> Didn't payroll taxes go up 2% in January? There is your added 'revenue', so why do we need more?
> 
> ...


Tax increases for major corporations and the ultra rich. I have a feeling you are not in the 1% of earners.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Didn't we have a stimulus that was money for 'shovel ready jobs'? Well he failed at that
> 
> Didn't payroll taxes go up 2% in January? There is your added 'revenue', so why do we need more?
> 
> ...


Off2knit I think you may be telling tales out of school and making up some of your numbers. Just where did you get all the figures from? You seem to want the government to do everything for you put you don't want to pay for it. Maybe you should call up some of your top 2% buddies on the right and have them pay their fair share of taxes for a change or have the corporations kick in the taxes they should already be paying. If you want to dance you or somebody else has to pay the piper.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Didn't we have a stimulus that was money for 'shovel ready jobs'? Well he failed at that
> 
> Didn't payroll taxes go up 2% in January? There is your added 'revenue', so why do we need more?
> 
> ...


Boom! I was right--the first funnel just dropped from the clouds and is heading straight toward us.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

American companies that have outsourced jobs overseas
should pay a higher import tax.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Boom! I was right--the first funnel just dropped from the clouds and is heading straight toward us.



LOL!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

well, April is tornado month lol


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky Blighter, I think we have met before
> I do agree that the Keystone could be a calamity.


Perhaps we have, wink wink. Glad to see you Patty. Hope life is treating you well. How's baby girl doing?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, Ingried does seem to get around--constantly hopping from thread to thread and site to site. No one seems immune to her presence--the rightists least of all. Just say the name and they turn purple in the face. The woman is powerful.


Ingried is omnipotent and omnipresent.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Off2knit, as the GOP agenda states, pull yourself up by your boot straps and deal with it. It's the president's fault that you haven't had a raise in 4 years? I would talk to your boss first.Or get another job and dont retire until you're 80.
It's no fault of the feds that your insurance has gone up 4 times. That is your insurance company raising it's rates on you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ingried is omnipotent and omnipresent.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Off2knit, as the GOP agenda states, pull yourself up by your boot straps and deal with it. It's the president's fault that you haven't had a raise in 4 years? I would talk to your boss first.Or get another job and dont retire until you're 80.
> It's no fault of the feds that your insurance has gone up 4 times. That is your insurance company raising it's rates on you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky Blighter, I think we have met before
> I do agree that the Keystone could be a calamity.


You have met her Patty. She is LillyK, conan o' conner, PollyK forgot the other names she comes by in deguise. She is back from the dead to blaspheme God. Guess I outed you again.  I thought you very nice until you started showing your true colors. How did you get back on. Maybe Lovethelakes, Cherf, Karen and Sharky can come back too.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'm impressed. I rarely do this, being northern English and therefore repressed, but :thumbup:


Coming from you Anne I take that as a high compliment. I know a bit about northern English but repressed isn't what I would call them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You have met her Patty. She is LillyK, conan o' conner, PollyK forgot the other names she comes by in deguise. She is back from the dead to blaspheme God. Guess I outed you again.  I thought you very nice until you started showing your true colors. How did you get back on. Maybe Lovethelakes, Cherf, Karen and Sharky can come back too.


Looks like a second funnel just touched down behind the first. Hardhats on ladies--watch out for the flying elephant dung.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What a fine reunion this is!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You have met her Patty. She is LillyK, conan o' conner, PollyK forgot the other names she comes by in deguise. She is back from the dead to blaspheme God. Guess I outed you again.  I thought you very nice until you started showing your true colors. How did you get back on. Maybe Lovethelakes, Cherf, Karen and Sharky can come back too.


Bumpkins where is your Christian charity and kindness? You don't know me. I respect your religious beliefs and I would kindly like you to let me live my life as I wish and believe what I want to. Isn't that what America is about, freedom? :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What a fine reunion this is!


Isn't it? :-D Who'd have thunk it?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Isn't it? :-D Who'd have thunk it?


Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends


 :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Get on your helmets and flak jackets ladies, incoming debris, oops oh gas masks needed to. The air is getting very foul in here! Yikes! :mrgreen: Where is Ingried when we need her? Maybe I should put on the ruby slippers and tap my heels together and she will appear. We sure aren't in OZ. This place seems a lot more like Kansas. I am so confused!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bumpkins where is your Christian charity and kindness? You don't know me. I respect your religious beliefs and I would kindly like you to let me live my life as I wish and believe what I want to. Isn't that what America is about, freedom? :thumbup:[/quote I know you are Lillyk. Don't hide behind different names. Patty doesn't hide she told us up front she was changing her name. I respect her for that.She is not trying to deceive us. You have. You ate your own before. Just warning both sides. What is done in the darkness has to come to light. I am not stopping you from believing anything. Or I haven't stopped you from your life. Just don't be ashamed of yourself and hide behind different names.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Get on your helmets and flak jackets ladies, incoming debris, oops oh gas masks needed to. The air is getting very foul in here! Yikes! :mrgreen: Where is Ingried when we need her? Maybe I should put on the ruby slippers and tap my heels together and she will appear. We sure aren't in OZ. This place seems a lot more like Kansas. I am so confused!


Same here, just saw a witch pedaling past on a bicycle.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Tax companies that outsource job, so do you think that Japan or Germany tax Honda or Mercedes for outsourcing production of Hondas, Toyotas or Mercedes in the US? 

How about companies that are international companies, like GE, if they send production of light bulbs to wherever, do we tax them only on the light bulbs they sell to the US, but not the ones they sell to other countries.

Yes, I think outsourcing is bad, it has closed many textile mills in the US, many lost jobs, but if a company sells all over the world, why can't they move production to another country they sell to? 

Coke is another example, they sell coke all over the world, yes it was founded in the US, but does that mean all Coke products need to be produced in the US.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Cheeky Blighter said:
> 
> 
> > Bumpkins where is your Christian charity and kindness? I respect your religious beliefs and I would kindly like you to let me live my life as I wish and believe what I want to. Isn't that what America is about, freedom? Why all the unkind comments about me below? Sounds very ominous. I don't have to tell you my real name and I certainly have nothing to be ashamed of. I would never say such unkind things about you as you have said about me.
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

@sjrnc

As long as they keep the home base here in America and employ Americans, I don't have a problem.
I was referring to companies that completely pulled out of this country to pay lower wages and less or no benefits to their workers, putting thousands here at home out of work.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am not asking people to apologise, just get off the "illegal immegrant" horse and recognize we are all of immigrant stock. And let us just recognize that Native Americans were here for a really really long time before the rest of us came as "discoverers" or immigrants at a more recent time.


Yes, from what little my parents taught me about American History was that America was populated by what you would today call Eskimos who walked across the Bering Strait kept going until what is the USA today.

So I must be of Russian descent or maybe something else, but America was "ours" first! Who really knows of what blood I really am as the different Indian tribes intermarried, body features changed as well as facial, height, build, etc., so who really knows, but we have been in America for thousands of years and will always be among you!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> @sjrnc
> 
> As long as they keep the home base here in America and employ Americans, I don't have a problem.
> I was referring to companies that completely pulled out of this country to pay lower wages and less or no benefits to their workers, putting thousands here at home out of work.


For me it's less a matter of employing Americans and more about employing people fairly. If they paid those teenage seamstresses huddled over the sewing machines a fair wage there'd be no need for manufacturers to take it on the road.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You have met her Patty. She is LillyK, conan o' conner, PollyK forgot the other names she comes by in deguise. She is back from the dead to blaspheme God. Guess I outed you again.  I thought you very nice until you started showing your true colors. How did you get back on. Maybe Lovethelakes, Cherf, Karen and Sharky can come back too.


Thanks as I thought her Avatar looked as something LilyCon'O'PolyK as she always had something weird in the Avatar!

Thank you Country for the information.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here I am Bumpkins. I didn't know I had to announce my presence to you. Patty used BrattyPatty and Patty is her name. You and your lovelies are such super slueths you found me out! Gosh darn it, can't pull the wool over your eyes can I. Let's live and let live. You respect me and I will respect you. I wish you well even if we do not agree on things.
> P.S. My God knows my real name and that is what is important so please don't judge me. You don't even know me.
> Thank you.


I don't respect you or your opinion. Please leave Patty out of this. She told us up from she was changing her name. I respect her , she is not hiding behind 12 names. I still remember what you did to her and SS. Why are you still on after you were kicked off from Adm. . It is only fair that the others that got kicked off will be put back on too. I don't play dirty but will tell the truth. You know I will.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You and your lovelies are such super slueths you found me out!


Guess those magnifying glasses from Acme Products really paid off--Yarnie must have posted a five-star review. Or maybe it was a 2 for 1 deal?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway,
I hope you stay among us. I never liked what happened to the Native Americans. Some of us feel really bad about that. If it means anything, I am of Celtic descent. Our warriors painted their faces blue before battles back in the old days before the Nords, Spaniards and Vikings invaded the land. My ancestors were also opressed as they had their religious beliefs stripped away and had the Church of England forced upon them
But i really do have to ask this. Why is bull feathers offensive?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

okay you are talking about companies that move from the US to countries that have horrible working conditions for their employees. Which is horrible!

but still no comment about Germany and Japan, from the number of those cars in my area, they surely could employ hundreds or more of their citizens, how do they feel about having their cars produced here. Do they consider it outsourcing?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Boom! I was right--the first funnel just dropped from the clouds and is heading straight toward us.


Need a cookie, Susan?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


How do I get in touch with her?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Janeway,
> I hope you stay among us. I never liked what happened to the Native Americans. Some of us feel really bad about that. If it means anything, I am of Celtic descent. Our warriors painted their faces blue before battles back in the old days before the Nords, Spaniards and Vikings invaded the land. My ancestors were also opressed as they had their religious beliefs stripped away and had the Church of England forced upon them
> But i really do have to ask this. Why is bull feathers offensive?


Because those words have always been used to belittle the American Indians.

We have always been deceived by the people who came to America as well as today as the reservations are horrible places to live!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

We can all still get along if we post respectfully to each other. Tempers flare in threads like this, but that's what PM's and apologies are for. 
I love a good debate and hate the name calling. 
There will always be things we don't agree on, but the key word here is respect. Okay on that note I am going to pour a glass of wine and enjoy all who post here whether or not we agree.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Need a cookie, Susan?


How about a few breaths from your compressor? I just cracked the seal on my last canister of O2.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't respect you or your opinion. Please leave Patty out of this. She told us up from she was changing her name. I respect her , she is not hiding behind 12 names. I still remember what you did to her and SS. Why are you still on after you were kicked off from Adm. . It is only fair that the others that got kicked off will be put back on too. I don't play dirty but will tell the truth. You know I will.


Bumpkins - Why are you being so unkind to me? I mean you no harm and I have done nothing wrong.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Because those words have always been used to belittle the American Indians.
> 
> We have always been deceived by the people who came to America as well as today as the reservations are horrible places to live!


But how does bull feathers really offend? Like I said before I had always taken it as "a bull has no feathers, so this can't be true."
Here in Minnesota the Ojibwe tribes opened casinos on the res and make very good money. They said that a lot of the dough went to making the reservations more livable and provide better schools. There are several around the state.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh Janeway don't be that way. No one really knows where Ingried is at any given time she could be right here in the middle of us or off doing something amazing. I think you are just a little bit jealous that we are her friends. She finds us when she finds us and we have so much fun together and such fascinating conversations.


Of course you think yourself funny--I don't care about her, don't want to be reminded of that very hateful person as you are just as hateful as she was. You are LilK,Con'O so now that we know who you are, I don't want to hear from you either!

Need a quarter to make a call?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Guess those magnifying glasses from Acme Products really paid off--Yarnie must have posted a five-star review. Or maybe it was a 2 for 1 deal?


oh my my the little lie is getting her little stuff up in the air, because she thinks everone is impress with her and her lieing and wow they are impress with you. That should tell you what kind of people they are if they except the biggest lair on this site. Tell us some more how the FBI AND CIA will get us kick off RAverly, and how it is a rule on here if you don't play nice you will be kick off. Then do your swing around when the gang isn't behind you and try kissie face. 
Oh a how about really telling the truth about yourself??? Oh and how about the other people who read this site.

How about now it isn't a friend who told you about Raverly but now you read it and you don't know Ingreid, but seem to know about her site. Ingreid was good at lieing to she was also writing a book and had one son and she was also handicap, sound familar to you. Naw you act to stupid to even be her. She at least at times had brains, you can't even cover your or your mouth. You again prove why some women should be made to work and not live off the rest of the world.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Guess those magnifying glasses from Acme Products really paid off--Yarnie must have posted a five-star review. Or maybe it was a 2 for 1 deal?


your a stupid by product of a human begin lady. Remember I am right I am always right.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bumpkins - Why are you being so unkind to me? I mean you no harm and I have done nothing wrong.


Cheeky next time don't just change your name change your id on your site.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> But how does bull feathers really offend? Like I said before I had always taken it as "a bull has no feathers, so this can't be true."
> Here in Minnesota the Ojibwe tribes opened casinos on the res and make very good money. They said that a lot of the dough went to making the reservations more livable and provide better schools. There are several around the state.


Yes, maybe now there will be improvements, but the Indians never were bused in to the good schools and the houses are horrible most without running water.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> But how does bull feathers really offend? Like I said before I had always taken it as "a bull has no feathers, so this can't be true."
> Here in Minnesota the Ojibwe tribes opened casinos on the res and make very good money. They said that a lot of the dough went to making the reservations more livable and provide better schools. There are several around the state.


Hey Patty hope they don't turn on you like the last time they did. Your looking good for now, but that could change.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ingried is omnipotent and omnipresent.


How nice to know that she has the power to be a God in your book.

Do you kiss her feet or her --- too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> oh my my the little lie is getting her little stuff up in the air, because she thinks everone is impress with her and her lieing and wow they are impress with you. That should tell you what kind of people they are if they except the biggest lair on this site. Tell us some more how the FBI AND CIA will get us kick off RAverly, and how it is a rule on here if you don't play nice you will be kick off. Then do your swing around when the gang isn't behind you and try kissie face.
> Oh a how about really telling the truth about yourself??? Oh and how about the other people who read this site.
> 
> How about now it isn't a friend who told you about Raverly but now you read it and you don't know Ingreid, but seem to know about her site. Ingreid was good at lieing to she was also writing a book and had one son and she was also handicap, sound familar to you. Naw you act to stupid to even be her. She at least at times had brains, you can't even cover your or your mouth. You again prove why some women should be made to work and not live off the rest of the world.


Seems like the winged monkeys have been called out--zikes! they're noisy little devils.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> oh my my the little lie is getting her little stuff up in the air, because she thinks everone is impress with her and her lieing and wow they are impress with you. That should tell you what kind of people they are if they except the biggest lair on this site. Tell us some more how the FBI AND CIA will get us kick off RAverly, and how it is a rule on here if you don't play nice you will be kick off. Then do your swing around when the gang isn't behind you and try kissie face.
> Oh a how about really telling the truth about yourself??? Oh and how about the other people who read this site.
> 
> How about now it isn't a friend who told you about Raverly but now you read it and you don't know Ingreid, but seem to know about her site. Ingreid was good at lieing to she was also writing a book and had one son and she was also handicap, sound familar to you. Naw you act to stupid to even be her. She at least at times had brains, you can't even cover your or your mouth. You again prove why some women should be made to work and not live off the rest of the world.


Think calm . . .


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> How nice to know that she has the power to be a God in your book.
> 
> Do you kiss her feet or her --- too.


What kind of remark was that? 
Have a batch of cookies!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ingried is omnipotent and omnipresent.


As she would say, get the facts!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems like the winged monkeys have been called out--zikes! they're noisy little devils.


See the little liar is out to funny how when the left disappear you become the little winner that you are such an idot no brainer you are. But you lift your leg to talk out your ----- to that way you can lie on both ends. You are sure good at that aren't you.

And so brave lets see what happens when the gang isn't here and you don't have anyone to impress except your self. twist and turn and twist and turn. Oh I love you oh I am so worried about you oh I am such so good all I do is sit at my computor all day as I don't have a life and feeel the need to put on my big girl pants and lie lie lie.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Get on your helmets and flak jackets ladies, incoming debris, oops oh gas masks needed to. The air is getting very foul in here! Yikes! :mrgreen: Where is Ingried when we need her? Maybe I should put on the ruby slippers and tap my heels together and she will appear. We sure aren't in OZ. This place seems a lot more like Kansas. I am so confused!


Time to stop your nonsense!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janeway seems to think 'bullfeathers' (Teddy Roosevelt) is cursing and disrespectful to Native Americans, for whom she speaks.

I'm more a 'a bull doesn't have feathers' so the emperor has no clothes.

We're looking for opinions from the group.



BrattyPatty said:


> How is bull feathers a slur to Native Americans? I always took it as "a bull doesn't have feathers/your point has no foundation"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We understand.



theyarnlady said:


> Just plain stupid, must be a brain drain day for me. Oh my I know whats wrong I left them out this morning when I got up. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What kind of remark was that?
> Have a batch of cookies!


stick those cookies you know where.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome to my world.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sort of sounds the same doesn't it? I guess in some people's world what is good for the goose ain't good for the gander. I wonder which one we are damemary? I'm confused now :roll:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> We understand.


Your another one whose should check your mouth. but then you wouldn't be able to see your face. 
Get a life Witch.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> See the little liar is out to funny how when the left disappear you become the little winner that you are such an idot no brainer you are. But you lift your leg to talk out your ----- to that way you can lie on both ends. You are sure good at that aren't you.
> 
> And so brave lets see what happens when the gang isn't here and you don't have anyone to impress except your self. twist and turn and twist and turn. Oh I love you oh I am so worried about you oh I am such so good all I do is sit at my computor all day as I don't have a life and feeel the need to put on my big girl pants and lie lie
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> See the little liar is out to funny how when the left disappear you become the little winner that you are such an idot no brainer you are. But you lift your leg to talk out your ----- to that way you can lie on both ends. You are sure good at that aren't you.
> 
> And so brave lets see what happens when the gang isn't here and you don't have anyone to impress except your self. twist and turn and twist and turn. Oh I love you oh I am so worried about you oh I am such so good all I do is sit at my computor all day as I don't have a life and feeel the need to put on my big girl pants and lie lie lie.


Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your another one whose should check your mouth. but then you wouldn't be able to see your face.
> Get a life Witch.


What is going on with you?
Country Bumpkins, can't you talk to her?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

yarnlady, can you please be respectful? So what if she was lilly K.
Lots of people have changed user names on this site including me. We like to share ideas here and debate them. Is that so wrong? Name calling accomplishes nothing


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What is going on with you?
> Country Bumpkins, can't you talk to her?


Somebody should. I have tried.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> How do I get in touch with her?


Go back into hiding where you belong!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What is going on with you?
> Country Bumpkins, can't you talk to her?


Somebody should. I have tried. Waiting for the white tornado to strike ;-)


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> yarnlady, can you please be respectful? So what if she was lilly K.
> Lots of people have changed user names on this site including me. We like to share ideas here and debate them. Is that so wrong? Name calling accomplishes nothing


Who were you before?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins is entertaining her 10 year old grandson tonight. She probably won't be back on for a while.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Come on Susan or what ever your name is theFBI AND CIA are watching.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


Susan, this is way, way, way below the belt! Go have a dozen cookies! This is not nice to make fun of someone who has this problem!

Apologize please!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Susan, this is way, way, way below the belt! Go have a dozen cookies! This is not nice to make fun of someone who has this problem!
> 
> Apologize please!


I don't want her apolgize I want her FBI AND CIA and her book how to look stupid and prove you are.

OR how about the dumbest women that walks the earth, and can prove it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Come on Susan or what ever your name is theFBI AND CIA are watching.


Probably not, but it's possible that at least the men in the white coats have a lock on you.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> We understand.


You don't understand anything, you have to have a brain to understand something. You are a mouth and that doesn't even work.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To explain 'super wealthy' a quote from Paul Allen, founder of Microsoft with Bill Gates. "I can't talk about planes with non-plane people." But Bill Gates and his wife have formed a foundation to make the world a better place, providing vaccinations and safe water to people around the globe.

When you have all you and your family could ever need, I call you super-wealthy. If $45,000 will do it for you, so be it.

I would hope someone from this super-wealthy category would work and/or invest hard to pay it forward as a way of expressing their gratitude for their opportunities.

That's what I think.

I think the allegation of illegal substances is a silly quip indicating that they don't understand your position.



off2knit said:


> First of all,alleging that I smoke or take illegal drugs is slanderous. Please stop with your false accusations.
> 
> Define super wealthy. 45K, 120K, 175K,225K........
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Janeway seems to think 'bullfeathers' (Teddy Roosevelt) is cursing and disrespectful to Native Americans, for whom she speaks.
> 
> I'm more a 'a bull doesn't have feathers' so the emperor has no clothes.
> 
> We're looking for opinions from the group.


Go hide yourself shame on you you are just the most hate people on this site. I have had it with your hatefulness and slamming my people.

:hunf: :hunf: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :hunf: :twisted:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

@ yarnlady

I just don't understand why you feel you have to be so nasty to people here. Can you please explain?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Welcome to my world.


You are the lefters that think you can impress anyone with your words of great knowledge and can't even put your mouths on straight .


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Janeway seems to think 'bullfeathers' (Teddy Roosevelt) is cursing and disrespectful to Native Americans, for whom she speaks.
> 
> I'm more a 'a bull doesn't have feathers' so the emperor has no clothes.
> 
> We're looking for opinions from the group.


Actually the Urban Dictionary says

"Bull feathers" is an interjection used to express disbelief. The concept is similar to "preposterous," which suggests that such an undeniable contradiction exists in the assertion being challenged that it cannot possibly be believed. In this case, the contradiction is clear: there is quite obviously no such thing as a bull with feathers.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's too easy. No comment.



theyarnlady said:


> Oh this is just to funny there are sixty different subjects going on and no one has proven anything but what they think is right. What a mess, do any of you have any idea how stupid you sound on the left???


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

well, my mouth is non removable and has been straight since birth. Being disrespectful to people only causes dissent among all the ladies who post here.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Where are the cookies!??! Come on let's all calm down. Thinks are getting out of hand. Let's all just take a break.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> It's too easy. No comment.


Yup it is for you your mouth is the only thing that does work on your body, you must have to role on the floor just to get around.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> well, my mouth is non removable and has been straight since birth. Being disrespectful to people only causes dissent among all the ladies who post here.


you ought to know you were very good at it once.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually the Urban Dictionary says
> 
> "Bull feathers" is an interjection used to express disbelief. The concept is similar to "preposterous," which suggests that such an undeniable contradiction exists in the assertion being challenged that it cannot possibly be believed. In this case, the contradiction is clear: there is quite obviously no such thing as a bull with feathers.


The idiot has spoken with great words.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have a great online name for yarnlady. Mrs. Malaprop.



theyarnlady said:


> only as rude as the left has been, what's good for the goosers as some like to point out is a bunch of ganders to me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Hey Rocky how about you you haven't said anything to me yet? bring it on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've got it Patty!

I appreciate the expression of your opinions.



BrattyPatty said:


> So , you don't contribute anything to the topics being discussed, you only put them down for doing so. I see now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nobody should have to, yarnlady. Calling people idiots is bringing it on yourself


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Probably not, but it's possible that at least the men in the white coats have a lock on you.


Oh lets call the FBI or the CIA should we maybe they can help you find your book and your mouth.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I have one for you Bitch.


Yarnie, heel!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nobody should have to, yarnlady. Calling people idiots is bringing it on yourself


Oh really how kind of you to say that. Let see how many names that all your lovely ladies have called me.

I think idiots is fair enough trade off.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess you're right about the problem Susan. Janeway has confirmed it.



Janeway said:


> Susan, this is way, way, way below the belt! Go have a dozen cookies! This is not nice to make fun of someone who has this problem!
> 
> Apologize please!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yarnie, heel!


I give as good as I get you are such an idiot.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My brain and my mouth work quite well unlike others.

Opinions?



theyarnlady said:


> You don't understand anything, you have to have a brain to understand something. You are a mouth and that doesn't even work.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I guess you're right about the problem Susan. Janeway has confirmed it.


Seems like it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A natural 'gift?'



BrattyPatty said:


> @ yarnlady
> 
> I just don't understand why you feel you have to be so nasty to people here. Can you please explain?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh lets call the FBI or the CIA should we maybe they can help you find your book and your mouth.


My goodness. Pretty hateful words coming out of your mouth yarnlady. Maybe a hot bath will help calm you down and while you are at it, flush your mouth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I must admit I do have a smile on my face now.



theyarnlady said:


> You are the lefters that think you can impress anyone with your words of great knowledge and can't even put your mouths on straight .


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> You've got it Patty!
> 
> I appreciate the expression of your opinions.


Ah can't think of anything else as usual it is so like you repeat. I did that on purpose today to show you just what you are all like . thought you would like a little show like you seeem to like to hand out.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My goodness. Pretty hateful words coming out of your mouth yarnlady. Maybe a hot bath will help calm you down and while you are at it, flush your mouth.


Not in a million years lady not in a million years.

you need more than a mouth flush.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> stick it up your a---- Bitch. better yet call those FBI or CIA to help you out.


Okay toilet mouth, enough!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> I must admit I do have a smile on my face now.


Oh I am so glad it's nice to know that you do have what is it called a sense of humor. you are sure the funny one on here. Ever time you open your mouth you are funny.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Okay toilet mouth, enough!


Oh how sweet of you to telll me what to do, not not when you seem to think you can call me names and do what you think is funny. Not going to happen.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What idiot are you mentioning? Author of the dictionary? I beg to differ.



theyarnlady said:


> The idiot has spoken with great words.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NASTY even for you.



theyarnlady said:


> I have one for you Bitch.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> My brain and my mouth work quite well unlike others.
> 
> Opinions?


They do that is a surpise that you can get them both to work at the same time.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> NASTY even for you.


Don't care any more, you have all handed out to me it pay back now.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You owe everyone an apology for this one. Opinions?



theyarnlady said:


> I have one for you Bitch.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> What idiot are you mentioning? Author of the dictionary? I beg to differ.


If the words fit you wear them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

More childish name-calling. Calm down and admit you got carried away.



theyarnlady said:


> Oh lets call the FBI or the CIA should we maybe they can help you find your book and your mouth.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> You owe everyone an apology for this one. Opinions?


you go first, opinions your good at that.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems like it.


Susan, I thought you were a nice lady--am I wrong?

Yarnie is truly a wonderful person, but 3 or4 of you on her back is not funny!

Guess, I am now on your list as Yarnie?

Damemary is not a nice person never has been and never will be nice so you are hanging out in bad company.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> More childish name-calling. Calm down and admit you got carried away.


Oh i am childish now gee how nice to hear that from you the women who has the manners of a what would you call it???????????????????????????????????


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Had enough of this nonsense! Goodnight Yarnie as you should leave too until tomorrow.

Nighty, night Yarnie.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> You owe everyone an apology for this one. Opinions?


It' was totally ,totally uncalled for. If this is all she has to contribute, then it's not worth my time trying to get her to stop the name calling. In fact she isn't worth my time at all. She should apologize to the woman she called a bitch.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes, please listen to Janeway.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No. Sometime I am frank and thoughtful. I have a range of emotions. I do like to laugh too.
'


theyarnlady said:


> Oh I am so glad it's nice to know that you do have what is it called a sense of humor. you are sure the funny one on here. Ever time you open your mouth you are funny.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> You owe everyone an apology for this one. Opinions?


Agree. If someone had told me about this little tirade I would have thought they were joking.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It' was totally ,totally uncalled for. If this is all she has to contribute, then it's not worth my time trying to get her to stop the name calling. In fact she isn't worth my time at all. She should apologize to the woman she called a bitch.


When they apolozie to me for all the names they have called me. I owe that women nothing compared to the names she has used on me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Try it sometime.



theyarnlady said:


> They do that is a surpise that you can get them both to work at the same time.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree. If someone had told me about this little tirade I would have thought they were joking.


you started it, and I told you I give as good as I get.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And if all your friends jumped off the roof......



theyarnlady said:


> Don't care any more, you have all handed out to me it pay back now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Susan, I thought you were a nice lady--am I wrong?
> 
> Yarnie is truly a wonderful person, but 3 or4 of you on her back is not funny!
> 
> ...


Janeway, things would more fun if all the name calling from Yarnlady would stop. It came out of nowhere. Calling people idiots, stupid, bitch etc. Is it really necessary?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Try it sometime.


I don't have to but then you are so good at it why would I want to replace you and your job.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm hurt....not.



Janeway said:


> Susan, I thought you were a nice lady--am I wrong?
> 
> Yarnie is truly a wonderful person, but 3 or4 of you on her back is not funny!
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Now i am through with the lot of you. I have never in my life met such mean unkind spiteful women. I have paid you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site.
Susan learn to tell the truth, you will get further in your life it you do.,


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm the bitch.

Janeway also added some choice names for me.

I swear that I'm just trying to get people to think before they rant.



BrattyPatty said:


> It' was totally ,totally uncalled for. If this is all she has to contribute, then it's not worth my time trying to get her to stop the name calling. In fact she isn't worth my time at all. She should apologize to the woman she called a bitch.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't have to but then you are so good at it why would I want to replace you and your job.


You can't say that about me. I have not called you an idiot, stupid, or a bitch. Those are your words lady


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Susan, I thought you were a nice lady--am I wrong?
> 
> Yarnie is truly a wonderful person, but 3 or4 of you on her back is not funny!
> 
> ...


I have no idea what brought this on, but I heard no one using obscenities except Yarnie--before, during, or after this little episode. Language like that is completely inappropriate.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You have not 'given as good as you got.' You have been rude and hateful. You look foolish.



theyarnlady said:


> you started it, and I told you I give as good as I get.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Deleted


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm the bitch.
> 
> Janeway also added some choice names for me.
> 
> I swear that I'm just trying to get people to think before they rant.


Actually I think she called three or four of us that, me included.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> I will not take the bait.
> ...


Oh, no! I've been plagiarized. Maybe Ingreid can help me... :mrgreen: Maybe you girls could pretend to be grownups and talk about something that matters. Then again, as this country seems to circling the drain, maybe there is no point in attempting do do anything besides playing this little game you've got going about who someone with a "new" user name supposedly used to be.:hunf:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Now i am through with the lot of you. I have never in my life met such mean unkind spiteful women. I have paid you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site.
> Susan learn to tell the truth, you will get further in your life it you do.,


Well then adios and bye bye. I have called you no names like Bitch, idiot , or stupid. I am just trying to get you to stop.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, no! I've been plagiarized. Maybe Infreid can help me... :mrgreen:


It is Ingried


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, no! I've been plagiarized. Maybe Infreid can help me... :mrgreen:


Where have you been, SS? You missed all the fun--not!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

So Susan, what part of the Golden State do you reside?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

This is just to sad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So Susan, what part of the Golden State do you reside?


We're on the coast--actually, just two blocks from the ocean.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is just to sad.


It is sad Bumpkins. Yarnlady had an episode. She started calling people names. I asked her stop several times.
I understand what could have happened as Janeway filled me in a few things that I won't make public for Yarnlady's sake


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> We're on the coast--actually, just two blocks from the ocean.


I lived in Huntington Beach a very long time ago. I love the beaches! Laguna Beach is my favorite


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, no! I've been plagiarized. Maybe Ingreid can help me... :mrgreen: Maybe you girls could pretend to be grownups and talk about something that matters. Then again, as this country seems to circling the drain, maybe there is no point in attempting do do anything besides playing this little game you've got going about who someone with a "new" user name supposedly used to be.:hunf:


That has already been settled.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Give it up for a while, theyarnlady. You've done nothing for many, many pages except insult anybody who says anything at all. Are you really that fond of wasting your time? Also, you might try to sound like you can speak English. I'm also getting pretty tired of trying to translate your garbled messages.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm going to leave in a few minutes. I am going to pop some corn and watch the Hobbit. I saw it already in the theaters, but have already forgotten most of it.
Bumpkins, slap Ya Mama is great on popcorn!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I lived in Huntington Beach a very long time ago. I love the beaches! Laguna Beach is my favorite


I do too and used to visit them all the time when I lived in SF. It's funny though, now that it's so close I completely take it for granted--haven't been down there for three or four months at least.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That has already been settled.


And just how exactly has what been settled? Is everything OK because Yarnie called someone a bitch? Has everyone here been smoking too much rope, or are there just a bunch of "ladies" who are on the rag today? Yarnie, I'm sorry if you're having a bad day today, but enough is enough.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm going to leave in a few minutes. I am going to pop some corn and watch the Hobbit. I saw it already in the theaters, but have already forgotten most of it.
> Bumpkins, slap Ya Mama is great on popcorn!


We are watching Big. I am out of Slap yo mama. Tried to make some on my own. But not the same. I like it on popcorn too. :roll:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Read the PM I sent you., Seattle Soul


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We are watching Big. I am out of Slap yo mama. Tried to make some on my own. But not the same. I like it on popcorn too. :roll:


Out of it?? Better get to the store and get some! lol
I put some in egg salad. Wow that was great!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> And just how exactly has what been settled? Is everything OK because Yarnie called someone a bitch?


No, of course not--but I can feel a chill crawling down my spine now. I have absolutely no idea how this happened--if I remember correctly we were discussing a new pipeline that's supposed to run from Canada down to the Gulf Coast. Nothing controversial in the least.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I discovered a secret you may appreciate. All searching was fruitless. I won't tell you the secret, but I will confirm it if you guess correctly. No one has guessed right yet so far.

Ingried is among us.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I get it now, this topic has entered the Twilight Zone. For some reason BrattyPatty has been sending me PMs telling me how to behave and reminding me that we once exchanged many PMs and I have absolutely no idea who this self-styled brat is. She must be from the Twilight Zone, or hallucinating about a nonexistent past she thinks we have. i am completely grossed out. Maybe Bratty is some kind of stalker. I sure hope not. Oh, and she tells me she's been around you ladies for a long time. :thumbdown:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I get it now, this topic has entered the Twilight Zone. :thumbdown:


No the topic hasn't entered the Twilight zone. And I can rightfully say who is on the rag judging from the nasty PM you sent. Would you like to see it ladies?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I discovered a secret you may appreciate. All searching was fruitless. I won't tell you the secret, but I will confirm it if you guess correctly. No one has guessed right yet so far.
> 
> Ingried is among us.


Well tell her to get her butsy in here and say hi to us!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, think I'll pack it in for the night. Sleep tight ladies!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Me too. Seattle Soul gives me the creeps.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I sent her the message. I miss her.



BrattyPatty said:


> Well tell her to get her butsy in here and say hi to us!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No the topic hasn't entered the Twilight zone. And I can rightfully say who is on the rag judging from the nasty PM you sent. Would you like to see it ladies?


Quote away Bratty. As I have said in PMs to you this evening you seem to think we have had a long exchange of PMs in the past but I've never seen your name on any posts or gotten any PMS from you until you turned up here recently. When brats bother me I know how to tell them to go away. You don't seem to understand plain English. Let me repeat what I want you to do here, in acceptable public language. I have never met you anywhere on the Forum. We have never exchanged PMs until this evening. Leave me alone.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, of course not--but I can feel a chill crawling down my spine now. I have absolutely no idea how this happened--if I remember correctly we were discussing a new pipeline that's supposed to run from Canada down to the Gulf Coast. Nothing controversial in the least.


I've just read page after page of insults being thrown around. Maybe that pipeline is full of s--t and it broke.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Quote away Bratty. As I have said in PMs to you this evening you seem to think we have had a long exchange of PMs in the past but I've never seen your name on any posts or gotten any PMS from you until you turned up here recently. When brats bother me I know how to tell them to go away. You don't seem to understand plain English. Let me repeat what I want you to do here, in acceptable public language. I have never met you anywhere on the Forum. We have never exchanged PMs until this evening. Leave me alone.


4 PM's from you and now this. Seems like you want me to respond to you. But you are just another psycho in the forum to ignore from now on.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Goodnite, susan, damemary,and al & cheeky!
See you wonderful ladies tomorrow!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Where are the cookies!??! Come on let's all calm down. Things are getting out of hand. Let's all just take a break.


----------



## LunaDragon (Sep 8, 2012)

Wow, I came on late today and missed the 58 pages of commits. Tried to read them all, but felt God must have wanted me to miss it. All I can say is every one has a opinion and to joke about some ones death is sad. Some people just like to stir up things and sit back and watch what happens. Please we are not at your disposal and use for entertainment. Thank you all and may your weekend find peace and forgiveness.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


That was very tacky to say that to her Susan. Making fun of her disablity. Shame on you. Turn that around and she how you would have felt. I hope you don't kick your dog too. Very uncalled for.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Off2knit I think you may be telling tales out of school and making up some of your numbers. Just where did you get all the figures from? You seem to want the government to do everything for you put you don't want to pay for it. Maybe you should call up some of your top 2% buddies on the right and have them pay their fair share of taxes for a change or have the corporations kick in the taxes they should already be paying. If you want to dance you or somebody else has to pay the piper.


There is nothing farther from the truth. First of all you assumed my income. Shame on you, but if the donkey mask fits you wear it well. I truly want government to stay out of my life as much as possible. I pay my taxes, have no government subsidies given to me, so what am I asking for? Absolutely nothing. As you obviously have a horrid case of class envy, the upper tier of the income brackets pay 70% of all the taxes. I think that is fair.

The Federal Government has automatic budget increases built into it every year. Cut the increases, go back to the last budget that was passed (2008) and we will be in better financial shape. it is a win win.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That was very tacky to say that to her Susan. Making fun of her disablity. Shame on you. Turn that around and she how you would have felt. I hope you don't kick your dog too. Very uncalled for.


I did not know about the epilepsy, but obviously Susan did, or she would not have made that comment. What a cruel thing to say. If I had known about her epilepsy, there is no way I would have baited her, viciously attacked her, ganged up on her, ridiculed her....... knowing that stress could bring on another seizure. You have once again proven that you and your friends are some of the cruelest people on this forum, shame on you.

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/provoke_stress


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ingried is among us.


That is truly unfortunate. A more officious blowhard I've yet to meet.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Tax companies that outsource job, so do you think that Japan or Germany tax Honda or Mercedes for outsourcing production of Hondas, Toyotas or Mercedes in the US?
> 
> How about companies that are international companies, like GE, if they send production of light bulbs to wherever, do we tax them only on the light bulbs they sell to the US, but not the ones they sell to other countries.
> 
> ...


They are US companies and they should pay US taxes and not use off shore loopholes.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> okay you are talking about companies that move from the US to countries that have horrible working conditions for their employees. Which is horrible!
> 
> but still no comment about Germany and Japan, from the number of those cars in my area, they surely could employ hundreds or more of their citizens, how do they feel about having their cars produced here. Do they consider it outsourcing?


If the production of German and Japanese cars in the US is a concern to you for their citizens how about you finding out how those citizens feel?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> They are US companies and they should pay US taxes and not use off shore loopholes.


companies like GE and Facebook paid little or no taxes due to the tax laws. I believe FB even got a large refund.

Their accountants were just following tax code or laws. 
I am sure there are plenty of loopholes that need/could be fixed.

When you do your taxes, do you take all deductions legally allowed you, or do you say oh I won't claim that as I want to pay more in taxes?

I also pay taxes on the dividends I get from companies that have international businesses. I don't consider any of those outsourcing jobs as they are companies that do business all over the world.

I will be honest and say I expect my accountant to do all he can to legally to lower my tax bill.
As I told him, I don't mind paying my fair share, but I also like to choose who gets some of my money, so yes I make charitable contributions to places I feel will use my money wisely. Yes, those are allowable deductions. Is that wrong?

I guess the other question could be what is a fair share? 
People are always saying people need to pay their fair share, what is it?
25, 35, 40, 50 percent of their income and is that just Federal Tax, or do you include state or local taxes in that percentage?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> If the production of German and Japanese cars in the US is a concern to you for their citizens how about you finding out how those citizens feel?


I was just asking a question if it bothers us so much about outsourcing, I wonder if it bothers those countries too.

It is not a concern to me as I know the cities and states that produce those cars in the US enjoy having them there.

I was just maybe playing devil's advocate and asking the same question in reverse about how those countries feel when they send companies to the US?

Did find this article from 2010, that was an interesting. Seems
German works are paid more for producing German cars in Germany that US workers are paid here for producing same cars.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> companies like GE and Facebook paid little or no taxes due to the tax laws. I believe FB even got a large refund.
> 
> Their accountants were just following tax code or laws.
> I am sure there are plenty of loopholes that need/could be fixed.
> ...


This is a complicated issue that is not easily reduced to comparing your or my taxes to corporate taxes. The loopholes are wrong and not necessarily legitimate and have little to do with the legitimate deductions your accountant probly uses. Corporations routinely do not declare large amounts of profit, parking it offshore etc. Yes laws should be changed and corporations routinely fight such changes.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Go hide yourself shame on you you are just the most hate people on this site. I have had it with your hatefulness and slamming my people.
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :hunf: :twisted:


Do you know that Bullfeathers is a restaurant in Washington DC and a euphemism for bulls--t. I saw no reference to Native Americans.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Do you know that Bullfeathers is a restaurant in Washington DC and a euphemism for bulls--t. I saw no reference to Native Americans.


Maybe we could just use the widely accepted abbreviation for bulls--t, and say BS. No matter who was killing the bulls when they covered the plains, they all knew that where bulls are there will be BS. Oh, yeah, the folks who emigrated to the US to become Americans killed off most of the bulls, and didn't do much eating of them. Kill 'em and skin 'em was their way.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I get it now, this topic has entered the Twilight Zone. For some reason BrattyPatty has been sending me PMs telling me how to behave and reminding me that we once exchanged many PMs and I have absolutely no idea who this self-styled brat is. She must be from the Twilight Zone, or hallucinating about a nonexistent past she thinks we have. i am completely grossed out. Maybe Bratty is some kind of stalker. I sure hope not. Oh, and she tells me she's been around you ladies for a long time. :thumbdown:


Seattle stuff it as you are absolutely out in space on this site. Go back into hiding!

Bratty can take care of herself and does not need your input!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Off2knit, I was really shocked that someone would tell us about a health problem Yarnie herself hadn't told us about. Yarnie is and should be the only person to talk publically about her health.

Yarnie, I hope you have a better day today.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> I discovered a secret you may appreciate. All searching was fruitless. I won't tell you the secret, but I will confirm it if you guess correctly. No one has guessed right yet so far.
> 
> Ingried is among us.


Don't care if she is you as she is the most hateful person on this planet so let her die! If and when I find she is back as you are saying then I will report her to Admin as I won't tolerate her ever again.

You are Snoozi so why the name changes or did things get too hot to handle?

Go harass someone else as I'm through with you too!


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes laws should be changed and corporations routinely 

Totally agree, they need to be changed, but written with thought and real consideration about what they will really do.

Thanks for having a discussion with me, now I really should do something constructive. The stairs are calling to be vacuumed. My least favorite job, also should run the Roomba to vacuum the downstairs. Maybe will even quilt some today


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Seattle stuff it as you are absolutely out in space on this site. Go back into hiding!
> 
> Bratty can take care of herself and does not need your input!


I haven't been in hiding, and I haven't been trying to help Bratty. I've been trying to get her to leave me alone. You might like it, but I don't enjoy people telling me we have some past association when I've never heard of said person before.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I've just caught up on ten pages or so, and I'm at a loss. What has happened to this thread? It was fierce and sometimes funny, but things have taken a very nasty tone. I'm tired of people being told to leave because it's none of their business. Who owns this forum? The insults are off the scale. I've seen better behaviour in a nursery class. 

There are some important topics that could and should be discussed here, but the nastiness has truly taken over. Let's all try to live up to Yarnlady's wise words: It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> 4 PM's from you and now this. Seems like you want me to respond to you. But you are just another psycho in the forum to ignore from now on.


Bratty, Seattle is again showing that she is out in space but thinks she knows everything! Consider the source as she pops in once in a while with her so called superior knowledge!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That is truly unfortunate. A more officious blowhard I've yet to meet.


When I find out what name she is using I will notify Admin as Damemary AKA Snoozi_suzi is just trying to irritate us with her, but I am watching/reading what everyone says including DamSnooz!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> companies like GE and Facebook paid little or no taxes due to the tax laws. I believe FB even got a large refund.
> 
> Their accountants were just following tax code or laws.
> I am sure there are plenty of loopholes that need/could be fixed.
> ...


A nicely spoken comment. Thank you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I've just caught up on ten pages or so, and I'm at a loss. What has happened to this thread? It was fierce and sometimes funny, but things have taken a very nasty tone. I'm tired of people being told to leave because it's none of their business. Who owns this forum? The insults are off the scale. I've seen better behaviour in a nursery class.
> 
> There are some important topics that could and should be discussed here, but the nastiness has truly taken over. Let's all try to live up to Yarnlady's wise words: It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice.


We do not need you either so go back into hiding? Maybe you and Seattle will become best friends as you both need someone!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That was very tacky to say that to her Susan. Making fun of her disablity. Shame on you. Turn that around and she how you would have felt. I hope you don't kick your dog too. Very uncalled for.


Frankly I'm not sure what the proper response is when someone unleashes a torrent of obscenity. Advice?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

IPad is out of power so out of here until charged again!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I've just caught up on ten pages or so, and I'm at a loss. What has happened to this thread? It was fierce and sometimes funny, but things have taken a very nasty tone. I'm tired of people being told to leave because it's none of their business. Who owns this forum? The insults are off the scale. I've seen better behaviour in a nursery class.
> 
> There are some important topics that could and should be discussed here, but the nastiness has truly taken over. Let's all try to live up to Yarnlady's wise words: It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice.


Tell me about it! I'm still completely at a loss for words.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

WOW. Whatever happened to the topic at hand - obama and his various policies? All the energy that is being hurled around would be much better used if it were directed at our politicians.

In my email this AM was a notice from my Socialist Senator: "A Bitter Disappointment", What the president is proposing is going to hurt a lot of people, Sen. Bernie Sanders said Friday after the White House confirmed that President Obamas budget will include cuts in Social Security.

Bernie called it a bitter disappointment that the White House budget proposal next week will call for changing how annual cost-of-living adjustments are calculated. That means a typical 65-year-old retiree would lose more than $650 a year by their 75th birthday and more than $1,000 a year would be cut from their benefits once they reach 85. Bernie, who chairs the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, added that the White House proposal also would cut benefits for disabled veterans and their survivors.

The Senate passed a budget resolution that included Bernies amendment against switching to a so-called chained consumer price index. By adopting the amendment, the Senate went on record against the change that would cut Social Security benefits for more than 55 million Americans as part of what the White House calls a grand bargain with Republicans in Congress.

The presidents position has changed dramatically in recent years. As a presidential candidate in 2008, Obama pledged not to cut Social Security COLAs. (another broken promise...or lie, depending on how you look at it...)

If Obama is serious about dealing with our deficit he would not cut Social Security  which has not added one penny to the deficit, Bernie said. Instead, he would support legislation that ends the absurdity of one out of four profitable corporations paying nothing in federal income taxes. He would also help us close the offshore tax haven loopholes that enable large corporations and the wealthy to avoid paying $100 billion a year in federal taxes.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Tell me about it! I'm still completely at a loss for words.


Hope that God will keep you that way.

You were the nasty one that brought up Yarnie's Epilepsy, telling her to put a pencil in between her teeth. Obviously you and others knew that from former threads, because that type of nasty and vicious comment is far too random to be accidentally flung about. Then some of you started your pile on, and it escalated to the point of a wild dog pack attacking a sheep. Words do not fail me about what I think of you and the others in the wolf pack, just too lady like to express them. Shame on all of you


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Does a sheep call a wolf a bitch?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hope that God will keep you that way.
> 
> You were the nasty one that brought up Yarnie's Epilepsy, telling her to put a pencil in between her teeth. Obviously you and others knew that from former threads, because that type of nasty and vicious comment is far too random to be accidentally flung about. Then some of you started your pile on, and it escalated to the point of a wild dog pack attacking a sheep. Words do not fail me about what I think of you and the others in the wolf pack, just too lady like to express them. Shame on all of you


How can you possibly defend someone who calls other people b--tches--and worse? One might argue that I've brought the name calling upon myself (not that I'd agree, of course), but what have folks like Al done to deserve such treatment?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> How can you possibly defend someone who calls other people b--tches--and worse? One might argue that I've brought such name calling upon myself (not that I'd agree, of course), but what have folks like Al done to deserve such treatment?


Knowing that she had an illness, baiting her, not considering that your attack could cause her stress level to get so high and her body so out of balance and she might not be thinking clearly,getting her stress level so high that it put her in physical danger is what you did wrong. Shame on you and the wild dog pack that went for the kill. I read all the pages from last night, and I could read the stress and anxiety in her posts. I would have left her alone, but no not you. You who pontificated your good behavior during Holy Week has shown your true character. Shame on you again.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

There is no wild dog pack. We must have read different pages.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Knowing that she had an illness, baiting her, not considering that your attack could cause her stress level to get so high and her body so out of balance and she might not be thinking clearly,getting her stress level so high that it put her in physical danger is what you did wrong. Shame on you and the wild dog pack that went for the kill. I read all the pages from last night, and I could read the stress and anxiety in her posts. I would have left her alone, but no not you. You who pontificated your good behavior during Holy Week has shown your true character. Shame on you again.


Well, frankly it may be asking a bit much to demand that someone listen with bowed head when her husband and son are attacked. Could you manage it?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

If Obama is serious about dealing with our deficit he would not cut Social Security  which has not added one penny to the deficit, Bernie said. Instead, he would support legislation that ends the absurdity of one out of four profitable corporations paying nothing in federal income taxes. He would also help us close the offshore tax haven loopholes that enable large corporations and the wealthy to avoid paying $100 billion a year in federal taxes.

If I remember correctly not one of the president's budgets have come close to passing the senate. 

SS recipients got a very small cost of living raise this year, and I believe for a couple of years didn't get an increase. 

I just wish our congressmen/women would really try to come up with a real budget that would meet the needs of all. Yes, I feel that there will have to be sacrifices made by all. 

Each of us probably does that with our own household budgets, as things go up we might cut back on things, even things that we feel we really need, but know we could do without. 

People are living longer maybe the SS age does need to raised gradually. Maybe the income amount that one pays SS taxes on needs to be raised again. 

I am sure there are ways our govt. could save money. They just need to do it. Silly things like turning off lights, lowering or raising the thermostats in offices, selling some unoccupied federal buildings, really looking at duplicate programs and eliminating or consolidating them.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, frankly it may be asking a bit much to demand that someone listen with bowed head when her husband and son are attacked. Could you manage it?


Absolutely. I would never lash out at someone with righteous indignation just to feel superior and triumphant knowing I was causing physical harm and putting them in a life threatening medical situation.

Hope you feel really good about yourself. You accomplished your goal; you hurt her deeply, you continued on with your attacks knowing how upset you were making her and putting her in danger. You proved to me what you will do, no matter at what cost, to feel superior and to be hurtful.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He is absolutely destroying our country.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Absolutely. I would never lash out at someone with righteous indignation just to feel superior and triumphant knowing I was causing physical harm and putting them in a life threatening medical situation.
> 
> Hope you feel really good about yourself. You accomplished your goal; you hurt her deeply, you continued on with your attacks knowing how upset you were making her and putting her in danger. You proved to me what you will do, no matter at what cost, to feel superior and to be hurtful.


There were numerous attempts to change the subject, many calls for folks to remain calm, and quite a few attempts to jolly Yarnie out of her diabolical mood. Yet Yarnie chose to ignore them all and keep on swinging.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

momeee said:


> WOW. Whatever happened to the topic at hand - obama and his various policies? All the energy that is being hurled around would be much better used if it were directed at our politicians.
> 
> In my email this AM was a notice from my Socialist Senator: "A Bitter Disappointment", What the president is proposing is going to hurt a lot of people, Sen. Bernie Sanders said Friday after the White House confirmed that President Obamas budget will include cuts in Social Security.
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> WOW. Whatever happened to the topic at hand - obama and his various policies? All the energy that is being hurled around would be much better used if it were directed at our politicians.
> 
> In my email this AM was a notice from my Socialist Senator: "A Bitter Disappointment", What the president is proposing is going to hurt a lot of people, Sen. Bernie Sanders said Friday after the White House confirmed that President Obamas budget will include cuts in Social Security.
> 
> ...


I'm with Bernie on this one!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> There were numerous attempts to change the subject, many calls for folks to remain calm, and quite a few attempts to jolly Yarnie out of her diabolical mood. Yet Yarnie chose to ignore them all and keep on swinging.


And so did you. So now you and your wild wolf pack blame her for not ignoring you when she felt so attacked. Why did you not ignore her? Diabolical mood, how judgmental. Shame on you for doing it and shame on you for continuing your attacks, and shame on you for passing all the blame onto her. pathetic


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And so did you. So now you and your wild wolf pack blame her for not ignoring you when she felt so attacked. Why did you not ignore her? Diabolical mood, how judgmental. Shame on you for doing it and shame on you for continuing your attacks, and shame on you for passing all the blame onto her. pathetic


"How judgmental"??? Priceless.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

We've all been attacked in one way or another. When the people from the right were ruling the roost, they thought nothing of hurling around insults and put-downs. It didn't feel good. Now the shoe is on the other foot and the "sides" are more even. Both sides can distribute the insults equally. Let's take the high road.
It's a new day.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We've all been attacked in one way or another. When the people from the right were ruling the roost, they thought nothing of hurling around insults and put-downs. It didn't feel good. Now the shoe is on the other foot and the "sides" are more even. Both sides can distribute the insults equally. Let's take the high road.
> It's a new day.


 :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And so did you. So now you and your wild wolf pack blame her for not ignoring you when she felt so attacked. Why did you not ignore her?


I have no doubt that I and others will do exactly that the next time Yarnie chooses to jump into the thread. There's no feeling of self-righteous satisfaction after such an encounter--no pleasure, no enlightenment, absolutely nothing that anyone could possibly want.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Recently, someone mentioned that Obama's budget proposes cuts to SS and Medicare. I haven't had a chance to check this out for more in-depth info. Have any of you, and if so, what have you learned? If any cuts are made to SS and Medicare a bunch of us are going to have to chain ourselves to the White House fence. Remember when people did that?

It's rainy here today, but the good news is that I've got my version of baked beans in the crock pot and plenty of cornmeal for cornbread. Tonight's dinner menu is definetly comfort food.:thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Recently, someone mentioned that Obama's budget proposes cuts to SS and Medicare. I haven't had a chance to check this out for more in-depth info. Have any of you, and if so, what have you learned? If any cuts are made to SS and Medicare a bunch of us are going to have to chain ourselves to the White House fence. Remember when people did that?
> 
> It's rainy here today, but the good news is that I've got my version of baked beans in the crock pot and plenty of cornmeal for cornbread. Tonight's dinner menu is definetly comfort food.:thumbup:


Here's a brief piece by my favorite economist

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/chained-cpi_b_3016471.html


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We've all been attacked in one way or another. When the people from the right were ruling the roost, they thought nothing of hurling around insults and put-downs. It didn't feel good. Now the shoe is on the other foot and the "sides" are more even. Both sides can distribute the insults equally. Let's take the high road.
> It's a new day.


The fact of the matter is that despite political leanings, it appears to me that we are ALL in the same pot and will be negatively affected by most of the WH's policies....


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> The fact of the matter is that despite political leanings, it appears to me that we are ALL in the same pot and will be negatively affected by most of the WH's policies....


I don't like the idea of messing with SS benefits when the trust is supposed to be adequately funded for the next 20 or 30 years, but I don't think we'll All be negatively affected by most of the WH policies.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

yes that was a good article, below is part of it.


"Social Security benefits are already meager for most recipients. The median income of Americans over 65 is less than $20,000 a year. Nearly 70 percent of them depend on Social Security for more than half of this. The average Social Security benefit is less than $15,000 a year.

Besides, Social Security isn't in serious trouble. The Social Security trust fund is flush for at least two decades. If we want to ensure it's there beyond that, there's an easy fix -- just lift the ceiling on income subject to Social Security taxes, which is now $113,700."

As I have stated before, I am sure things could be worked out, if our politicians would stop playing games, and yes it goes on by both parties!

yes, 20 to 30 years seems like a long time, but why can't they now start working on ways to save it so it will be there for younger workers. Better now than to wait until it really is a crisis and who knows what they will come up with without really thinking.

Do we really need another solution to a problem that each day we find out more and more about that might not be such a good thing in the end. We don't need to pass a bill to find out what is really in it! Think some are finding things they really don't like about it. Even trying to repeal some of it, like the taxes on medical equipment.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Does a sheep call a wolf a bitch?


None of your business so bud out!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> None of your business so bud out!


In what way is it none of my business? It's on a public forum.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:



> "How judgmental"??? Priceless.


Still don't need your input


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

You'll have to lump it then. I'm not a fan of your writings either but you have every right to express yourself.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't like the idea of messing with SS benefits when the trust is supposed to be adequately funded for the next 20 or 30 years, but I don't think we'll All be negatively affected by most of the WH policies.


Maybe a little salt and pepper might taste good on the carpets. Grass is growing and looking greener in the yard. Yum!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> You'll have to lump it then. I'm not a fan of your writings either but you have every right to express yourself.


I don't lump anything especially from you!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't lump anything especially from you!


Thank you for your mature and considered response.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> yes that was a good article, below is part of it.
> 
> "Social Security benefits are already meager for most recipients. The median income of Americans over 65 is less than $20,000 a year. Nearly 70 percent of them depend on Social Security for more than half of this. The average Social Security benefit is less than $15,000 a year.
> 
> ...


I do not get $15,000 a year from SS so any cut will hurt me horribly as I live very frugally as it is.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you for your mature and considered response.


You never have been mature about anything! Grow-up!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nice day here so getting outside for some sunshine and 60 degree temp!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wouldn't it be interesting if our lawmakers were looking out for the good of the USA, and became aware of such information. Then, as astute lawyers in most cases, they could pass laws the would benefit us.

Just 'what if.'



sjrNC said:


> I was just asking a question if it bothers us so much about outsourcing, I wonder if it bothers those countries too.
> 
> It is not a concern to me as I know the cities and states that produce those cars in the US enjoy having them there.
> 
> ...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

It's very difficult to let stuff like this go, but it is the grown-up thing to do, so I'll just thank you for your valuable input on my character.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

First I really don't think they will cut any person's now SS benefit, it is just the cost of living adjustment that is now given will be figured a different way. Still means that Seniors will loose something as they will not get the raise they thought they were going to get and look forward to.


So is it really a cut if you don't get what you thought you would get. 

Guess that is what I wish someone would explain about the sequester, were budgets actually cut or the amount of the expected increase not as much as once promised.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bullfeathers in DC is an upscale watering hole for Capital Hill and lobbyists. Truth in advertising?



rocky1991 said:


> Do you know that Bullfeathers is a restaurant in Washington DC and a euphemism for bulls--t. I saw no reference to Native Americans.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I have no doubt that I and others will do exactly that the next time Yarnie chooses to jump into the thread. There's no feeling of self-righteous satisfaction after such an encounter--no pleasure, no enlightenment, absolutely nothing that anyone could possibly want.


Then why do it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can tell you do not read everything before commenting. I addressed the name change issue previously. I availed myself of the option to change my name after the election last fall. I thought it would help future discussions and lessen the harassment. I guess simple answers to complex questions never work. One very good thing.....I've found many new supportive friends.

It's definitely NOT too hot to handle. I truly believe in intelligent discussion. I believe in helping my fellow man. I believe in justice for all. I believe all men/women are created equal. And many, many other things. It warms my soul to hear that others can be unselfish and generous.

What do you believe? Everyone. I'd love to hear.



Janeway said:


> Don't care if she is you as she is the most hateful person on this planet so let her die! If and when I find she is back as you are saying then I will report her to Admin as I won't tolerate her ever again.
> 
> You are Snoozi so why the name changes or did things get too hot to handle?
> 
> Go harass someone else as I'm through with you too!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I can tell you do not read everything before commenting. I addressed the name change issue previously. I availed myself of the option to change my name after the election last fall. I thought it would help future discussions and lessen the harassment. I guess simple answers to complex questions never work. One very good thing.....I've found many new supportive friends.


Why would you need a name change if you were proud of what you said? Did you offend people so badly, that if they knew it was you, they would ignore you or harass you? If you paint a zebra blue, it is still a zebra. Wonder how many of new and supportive friends are just fellow name changers and wolves in sheep's clothing? CB you are good at this, can you help me with getting that answered?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting discussion. I'd also add that laws should be amended when they are found to be against our best interests as a nation.



sjrNC said:


> Yes laws should be changed and corporations routinely
> 
> Totally agree, they need to be changed, but written with thought and real consideration about what they will really do.
> 
> Thanks for having a discussion with me, now I really should do something constructive. The stairs are calling to be vacuumed. My least favorite job, also should run the Roomba to vacuum the downstairs. Maybe will even quilt some today


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I've just caught up on ten pages or so, and I'm at a loss. What has happened to this thread? It was fierce and sometimes funny, but things have taken a very nasty tone. I'm tired of people being told to leave because it's none of their business. Who owns this forum? The insults are off the scale. I've seen better behaviour in a nursery class.
> 
> There are some important topics that could and should be discussed here, but the nastiness has truly taken over. Let's all try to live up to Yarnlady's wise words: It's nice to be important, but more important to be nice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please refrain from name calling. It says much more about the person doing the calling.



Janeway said:


> When I find out what name she is using I will notify Admin as Damemary AKA Snoozi_suzi is just trying to irritate us with her, but I am watching/reading what everyone says including DamSnooz!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bullying.



Janeway said:


> We do not need you either so go back into hiding? Maybe you and Seattle will become best friends as you both need someone!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Please refrain from name calling. It says much more about the person doing the calling.


Maybe you should stop telling people what to do; that too says a lot about you and your character.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

damemary said:


> Interesting discussion. I'd also add that laws should be amended when they are found to be against our best interests as a nation.


yes they should, or maybe thought should be taken into account when writing a bill.

I hope that the immigration bill being worked on by a bipartisan committee is really looking at the things they are proposing from many standpoints. Just because it looks good on paper and seems okay, some times there are problems in the details that no one really thought through.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

hmmmm food for fodder....perhaps nothing gets done in elected circles (world wide) because politicians like lay people spend too much time going in circles.

I see perhaps that this could be the problem, given you see it on a forum board, I am sure that this type of behaviour happens in those elected circles as well.

What a quandry!!! It may be beneficial to all to stop, self edit and enter into a grown up discussion about problems. I saw it briefly a few pages ago and then poooof up in smoke!

I think everyone has something beneficial to say, it's important to keep an open mind, do not dismiss someone else so negatively, no name calling, etc - we would not expect our children to behave this way so why should we!!!


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

hmmmm food for fodder....perhaps nothing gets done in elected circles (world wide) because politicians like lay people spend too much time going in circles.

I see perhaps that this could be the problem, given you see it on a forum board, I am sure that this type of behaviour happens in those elected circles as well.

What a quandry!!! It may be beneficial to all to stop, self edit and enter into a grown up discussion about problems. I saw it briefly a few pages ago and then poooof up in smoke!

I think everyone has something beneficial to say, it's important to keep an open mind, do not dismiss someone else so negatively, no name calling, etc - we would not expect our children to behave this way so why should we!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Say that is unacceptable to you. Take a stand and stick to it with a little help from your friends. That's my answer. Any others? We need all to tools we can find.



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I'm not sure what the proper response is when someone unleashes a torrent of obscenity. Advice?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is God/god acting through the powergrid?



Janeway said:


> IPad is out of power so out of here until charged again!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I used to think I was never at a loss for words. Recently I've found myself staring at the computer with my jaw hanging open.



susanmos2000 said:


> Tell me about it! I'm still completely at a loss for words.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> hmmmm food for fodder....perhaps nothing gets done in elected circles (world wide) because politicians like lay people spend too much time going in circles.
> 
> I see perhaps that this could be the problem, given you see it on a forum board, I am sure that this type of behaviour happens in those elected circles as well.
> 
> ...


What is this 'we' business? Sounds like a preschool teacher lecturing her students


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Bratty, Seattle is again showing that she is out in space but thinks she knows everything! Consider the source as she pops in once in a while with her so called superior knowledge!


I guess Seattle doesn't know that I have changed my user name, but that's ok. I don't really want anything to do with her.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Is God/god acting through the powergrid?


Nasty comment


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps the President is appearing to consider the GOP agenda to see who actually agrees with it. Just Devil's Advocate.



momeee said:


> WOW. Whatever happened to the topic at hand - obama and his various policies? All the energy that is being hurled around would be much better used if it were directed at our politicians.
> 
> In my email this AM was a notice from my Socialist Senator: "A Bitter Disappointment", What the president is proposing is going to hurt a lot of people, Sen. Bernie Sanders said Friday after the White House confirmed that President Obamas budget will include cuts in Social Security.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At her own risk.



aw9358 said:


> Does a sheep call a wolf a bitch?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Absolutely. I would never lash out at someone with righteous indignation just to feel superior and triumphant knowing I was causing physical harm and putting them in a life threatening medical situation.
> 
> Hope you feel really good about yourself. You accomplished your goal; you hurt her deeply, you continued on with your attacks knowing how upset you were making her and putting her in danger. You proved to me what you will do, no matter at what cost, to feel superior and to be hurtful.


Just to be fair here, Some of us were not aware of her medical situation. I was advised by Janeway last night of her condition. Now put yourself in a position where youa re being called "idiot, stupid, BITCH, etc. I was trying to get her to stop when I got the PM. Another one comes in after everything is calm and starts up again. I sent her a PM to let her know of YL's condition and she went psycho. We can all guess who that is


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I changed my name because I got tired of the old one and after being with my sister who lives in the west for 3 weeks I decided to use the name that she affectionately calls me and has done so all my life.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Not a lecture Off2knit.

This is my opinion only. 

Just like it is my opnion that you are condescending and judgmental. You like to point out how nasty everyone else is but from what I've observed you are perhaps one of the Queens of Nasty.

No reason to to reply - I took the bait, I'm not proud of it but may as well be put down for something.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes maybe he is... But he knows his own party is totally against it.

In my opinion it is just playing games, getting people all upset, when maybe the thing to do is lay out the things he really wants and let the American public see it.

Jay carney stated and will find the exact quote as this is not what he(president) would he want if he was king.

WASHINGTON (TheBlaze/AP)  Seeking an elusive middle ground, President Barack Obama is proposing a 2014 budget that embraces tax increases abhorred by Republicans as well as reductions, loathed by liberals, in the growth of Social Security and other benefit programs.

However, White House press secretary Jay Carney on Friday said its not what he would do if he were king.

What I will say is that this is not the presidents idealized budget, Carney said. It is not what he would do if he were king, or if only people who supported his proposals were in Congress. It was what he believes is a fair and balanced approach to our deficit challenges. One that allows us to invest, that protects seniors, that helps secure the middle classand give ladders to those who want to get into the middle class.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/05/obama-proposes-2014-budget-but-its-not-what-he-would-do-if-he-were-king/


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MOMTO2 said:


> hmmmm food for fodder....perhaps nothing gets done in elected circles (world wide) because politicians like lay people spend too much time going in circles.
> 
> I see perhaps that this could be the problem, given you see it on a forum board, I am sure that this type of behaviour happens in those elected circles as well.
> 
> ...


Well stated. Thank you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Do you think he's just using SS and medicare as bait to get the Republicans to the table?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> I can tell you do not read everything before commenting. I addressed the name change issue previously. I availed myself of the option to change my name after the election last fall. I thought it would help future discussions and lessen the harassment. I guess simple answers to complex questions never work. One very good thing.....I've found many new supportive friends.
> 
> It's definitely NOT too hot to handle. I truly believe in intelligent discussion. I believe in helping my fellow man. I believe in justice for all. I believe all men/women are created equal. And many, many other things. It warms my soul to hear that others can be unselfish and generous.
> 
> What do you believe? Everyone. I'd love to hear.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Why would you need a name change if you were proud of what you said? Did you offend people so badly, that if they knew it was you, they would ignore you or harass you? If you paint a zebra blue, it is still a zebra. Wonder how many of new and supportive friends are just fellow name changers and wolves in sheep's clothing? CB you are good at this, can you help me with getting that answered?


It's anyone's prerogative to change one's screen name. Damemary changed her name a long time ago while she was still active on this forum. Most people knew she changed her name. No big secret.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> yes they should, or maybe thought should be taken into account when writing a bill.
> 
> I hope that the immigration bill being worked on by a bipartisan committee is really looking at the things they are proposing from many standpoints. Just because it looks good on paper and seems okay, some times there are problems in the details that no one really thought through.


People disagree on what "the common good" is. I've been through this before on this forum. There's a awful lot of "me me me" and to hell with the rest.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Why do they have to bait to get people to come together and work on an agreement. 

Seems they are doing that or trying to on immigration.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I believe that though we may be on different sides of the political fence that we can get along. It's good to share opinions and debate them. :-D But attacking the person instead of the
post is just plain mean.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> No, that you really have specific instances to back up what you're saying.


Reports on gov't waste have been published for decades. Do some reading and I'm sure you will find waste and fraud without much trouble. To quote your BFF Ingreid, "do your own research".


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

We live in a very large and diverse nation, finding common ground could/can be difficult, but I am sure it could be done, if people would really think things out and not always have knee jerk reactions to things or say my way or no way. Life isn't always fair, I doubt any of us get what we want all the time. 
Sometimes we have to compromise


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> People disagree on what "the common good" is. I've been through this before on this forum. There's a awful lot of "me me me" and to hell with the rest.


From my perspective "the common good" means everybody. Roads, bridges, etc. The government should not be in the business of administering benevolence. We, as a society, should but not the government. That so many are so trusting of putting things such as this into the hands of the government never ceases to astound me.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> From my perspective "the common good" means everybody. Roads, bridges, etc. The government should not be in the business of administering benevolence. We, as a society, should but not the government. That so many are so trusting of putting things such as this into the hands of the government never ceases to astound me.


Unfortunately, when benevolence is left to the private sector(sp?) judgements are made upon people about their level of need and what they should do to receive said benevolence. For example, this or that community group, whether religious or not has an idea that only the "deserving poor" should receive food from the food bank or health care from the doctors and nurses volunteering to dispense the assistance. Who determines the deserving poor? Therefore, when government does it there is a degree of fairness that is not judgemental. Not a perfecr system, but no system is.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> From my perspective "the common good" means everybody. Roads, bridges, etc. The government should not be in the business of administering benevolence. We, as a society, should but not the government. That so many are so trusting of putting things such as this into the hands of the government never ceases to astound me.


The government does it because there's a tremendous need and nobody else is there to pick up the pieces. I can see what my little church does everyday of the week, and believe me, it's a drop in The bucket!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Why do they have to bait to get people to come together and work on an agreement.
> 
> Seems they are doing that or trying to on immigration.


Even that has political overtones!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> My opinion is that we are already experiencing the effect of spending cuts. Teachers are being laid off, government workers are being furloughed, roads and bridges are in need of repair, police and fire services have been cut back.
> One of the things to remember is that everything costs more from year to year. Don't you see that happening in your household expenses? As an example, if the company that provides your electricity raises their rates, you have little recourse but to try to conserve on electricity and then just pay the bill. If you've considered all your other expenses and there's no place to cut back, you have to find more revenue or do without. How can we expect the government to function smoothly on less and less money from year to year? I understand trying to cut out waste (different things to different people) but the bottom line is that we need more revenue. It doesn't make sense to me to try to do away with needed services. I would like to see some government projects that would create jobs and result in something beneficial to us like the WPA (was that what it was called) or something similar. There are no easy answers.


Successful economies are those that prevent government spending from growing faster than the private economy that supports it. Our government is spending too much and to "fix" that problem, their answer is to tax more. When gov't debt shrinks because spending has been cut, jobs grow. Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain, Ireland and GB have/had a high debt to GDP ratio and when it became clear that this is unsustainable, their governments cut spending. These times require tough decisions, particularly unpopular ones.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Successful economies are those that prevent government spending from growing faster than the private economy that supports it. Our government is spending too much and to "fix" that problem, their answer is to tax more. When gov't debt shrinks because spending has been cut, jobs grow. Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain, Ireland and GB have/had a high debt to GDP ratio and when it became clear that this is unsustainable, their governments cut spending. These times require tough decisions, particularly unpopular ones.


Do austere measures work? Doesn't seem to be the case in Europe.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Successful economies are those that prevent government spending from growing faster than the private economy that supports it. Our government is spending too much and to "fix" that problem, their answer is to tax more. When gov't debt shrinks because spending has been cut, jobs grow. Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain, Ireland and GB have/had a high debt to GDP ratio and when it became clear that this is unsustainable, their governments cut spending. These times require tough decisions, particularly unpopular ones.


And what those governments did to solve their problems is
not working.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Why do they have to bait to get people to come together and work on an agreement.
> 
> Seems they are doing that or trying to on immigration.


Well, it goes back to the comments "we will make him a one term president". Obviously that didn't work. But when you have McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor working to obstruct at every corner, baiting may be the only way to get them all to sit down and get things done. Wasting time with fillibusters like that of Rand Paul achieves nothing. Walking out after 5 minutes in a meeting with the president achieves nothing for our brnefit. Just that of the Tea Party & GOP. So.....


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree. Look how many jobs can be created by repairing our infrastructure alone. We need to bring manufacturing jobs back to America.
> I hear too many complaining that the president is not creating enough jobs. It is not his job to create jobs. It's entrepeneurs that create jobs. Supply and demand create jobs.


Your last 3 sentences are correct. This government is taxing, mandating and regulating the job creators to death. This is one reason the economy is stagnating.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Your last 3 sentences are correct. This government is taxing, mandating and regulating the job creators to death. This is one reason the economy is stagnating.


I just don't get this at all. Are the job creators intentionally not creating jobs right now? They don't want to give American workers a living wage so they run to China, India, Malaysia, etc. to hire cheap labor. I don't feel sorry for the job creators who are not creating jobs.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I don't agree.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, it goes back to the comments "we will make him a one term president". Obviously that didn't work. But when you have McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor working to obstruct at every corner, baiting may be the only way to get them all to sit down and get things done.


Oh really. And that was not the Democrats' goal for President Bush? Just because McConnell, Boehner and Cantor don't agree with Obama's position, does not make them obstructionists, it is them doing their job. Their job is to represent those who elected them. Baiting them? Seems to me that if that were the case the Dems are back to their book of dirty plays. When you bait something you are hunting. Are they hunting? Are they going in for the kill? Maybe that's why we need gun control.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just don't get this at all. Are the job creators intentionally not creating jobs right now? They don't want to give American workers a living wage so they run to China, India, Malaysia, etc. to hire cheap labor. I don't feel sorry for the job creators who are not creating jobs.


That's pretty much it, Al. Sending jobs overseas is the fastest and easiest way for that company to make money. They pay workers 1.00 an hour where here they would have to pay at least the national minimum wage. More money in their pockets that way. How to get revenue? Tax the bejeez out of them when they import it back to the US


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's pretty much it, Al. Sending jobs overseas is the fastest and easiest way for that company to make money. They pay workers 1.00 an hour where here they would have to pay at least the national minimum wage. More money in their pockets that way. How to get revenue? Tax the bejeez out of them when they import it back to the US


This was written just before the November elections

As we go into the final days of a dismal presidential campaign where too many issues have been fudged or eludedand the media only want to talk about is whos up and whos downthe biggest issue on which the candidates have given us the clearest choice is whether the rich should pay more in taxes.

President Obama says emphatically yes. He proposes ending the Bush tax cut for people earning more than $250,000 a year, and requiring those with high incomes to pay in taxes at least 30 percent of any income over $1 million (the so-called Buffett Rule).

Mitt Romney says emphatically no. He proposes cutting tax rates by 20 percent, which would reduce taxes on the rich far more than anyone else. He also wants to extend the Bush tax cut for the wealthy, and reduce or eliminate taxes on dividends and capital gains.

Romney says hell close loopholes and eliminate deductions used by the rich so that their share of total taxes remains the same as it is now, although he refuses to specify what loopholes or deductions. But even if we take him at his word, under no circumstances would he increase the amount of taxes they pay.

Obama is right.

America faces a huge budget deficit. And just about everyone whos looked at how to reduce itthe non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles Commission, and almost all independent economists and analystshave come up with some combination of spending cuts and tax increases that raise revenue.

Just last Thursday, executives of more than eighty large American corporations called for tax reform that raises revenues and reduces the deficit.

The practical question is who pays for those additional revenues. If Romneys view prevails and the rich dont pay more, everyone else has to.

Thats nonsensical. The rich are far richer than they used to be, while most of the rest of us are poorer. The latest data show the top 1 percent garnering 93 percent of all the gains from the recovery so far. But median family income is 8 percent lower than it was in 2000, adjusted for inflation.

The gap has been widening for three decades. Since 1980 the top 1 percent has doubled its share of the nations total incomefrom 10 percent to 20 percent. The share of the top one-tenth of 1 percent has tripled. The share of the top-most one-one hundredth of 1 percent16,000 familieshas quadrupled. The richest 400 Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 150 million of us put together.

ADVERTISEMENT

Meanwhile, the tax rates paid by the wealthy have dropped precipitously. Before 1981 the top marginal tax rate was never lower than 70 percent. Under President Dwight Eisenhower it was 93 percent. Even after taking all the deductions and tax credits available to them, the rich paid around 54 percent.

The top tax rate is now only 35 percent and the tax on capital gains (increases in the value of investments) is only 15 percent. Since so much of what they earn is from capital gains, many of the super-rich, like Mitt Romney himself, pay 14 percent or less. Thats a lower tax rate than many middle-class Americans pay.

In fact, if you add up all the taxes paidnot just on income and capital gains but also payroll taxes (which dont apply to income above incomes of $110,100), and sales taxesmost of us are paying a higher percent of our income in taxes than are those at the top.

So how can anyone argue against raising taxes on the rich? Easy. They say it will slow the economy because the rich are job creators.

In the immortal words of Joe Biden, thats malarky.

The economy did just fine during the three decades after World War II, when the top tax rate never fell below 70 percent. Average yearly economic growth was higher in those years than its been since, when taxes on the rich have been far lower.

Bill Clinton raised taxes on the rich and the economy did wonderfully well. George W. Bush cut them and the economy slowed.

The real job creators are Americas vast middle class, whose spending encourages businesses to expand and hireand whose lack of spending has the opposite effect.

Thats why the recovery has been painfully slow. So much income and wealth have gone to the top that the vast majority of Americans in the middle dont have the purchasing power to get the economy moving again. The rich save most of what they earn, and their savings go anywhere around the world where they can get the highest return.

It would be insane to compound the damage by raising taxes on the middle class and not on the rich.

Logic, fairness, and common sense dictate that the rich pay more in taxes. Its the key to avoiding Januarys fiscal cliff and coming up with a grand bargain on taming the budget deficit. And its central to getting the economy back on track.

48InstapaperShare on readitlaterPocketShare on emailEmailShare on printPrint


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The long article was by Robert Reich. The American Prospect


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Your last 3 sentences are correct. This government is taxing, mandating and regulating the job creators to death. This is one reason the economy is stagnating.


The corporations that have gone overseas are not dying of financial woes. Government regulation of companies/corporations relate to safe working conditions, environmental safety and pollution, and yes minimum wage requirements. I do not think anyone wants to return to the early 20th century and shirtwaist factory fires. Corprations want unlimited peofit with no resonsibility to the countries where they manufacture. Look at what is happening in India, Southeast Asian countries etc where there are no regulations on safety and environment. The corporartions are not bleeding, but their workers are suffering and in some cases dying.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The corporations that have gone overseas are not dying of financial woes. Government regulation of companies/corporations relate to safe working conditions, environmental safety and pollution, and yes minimum wage requirements. I do not think anyone wants to return to the early 20th century and shirtwaist factory fires. Corprations want unlimited peofit with no resonsibility to the countries where they manufacture. Look at what is happening in India, Southeast Asian countries etc where there are no regulations on safety and environment. The corporartions are not bleeding, but their workers are suffering and in some cases dying.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Off2knit I think you may be telling tales out of school and making up some of your numbers. Just where did you get all the figures from? You seem to want the government to do everything for you put you don't want to pay for it. Maybe you should call up some of your top 2% buddies on the right and have them pay their fair share of taxes for a change or have the corporations kick in the taxes they should already be paying. If you want to dance you or somebody else has to pay the piper.


Exactly what number would you state is the 2%'s ( up from the original 1%, i see) fair share of taxes? Your side always says the rich don't pay their fair share, Yet never offer an amount. Please provide a number. Thank you.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Even that has political overtones!


Don't understand your statement, but from what I have seen or read a group of senators from both parties are trying to come up with a plan, that hopefully will provide a bill to solve our nations immigration problems.

Once they have reached an agreement or have a bill, I would hope they will have hearings, committee meetings for all senators to have a voice.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh really. And that was not the Democrats' goal for President Bush? Just because McConnell, Boehner and Cantor don't agree with Obama's position, does not make them obstructionists, it is them doing their job. Their job is to represent those who elected them. Baiting them? Seems to me that if that were the case the Dems are back to their book of dirty plays. When you bait something you are hunting. Are they hunting? Are they going in for the kill? Maybe that's why we need gun control.


Actually, it wasn't. The Democrats worked with Bush at least through the middle of his second term. I don't agree with you that they are doing their job and America has given them a 12% job approval rating. 
They have been obstructionists from the start.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Don't understand your statement, but from what I have seen or read a group of senators from both parties are trying to come up with a plan, that hopefully will provide a bill to solve our nations immigration problems.
> 
> Once they have reached an agreement or have a bill, I would hope they will have hearings, committee meetings for all senators to have a voice.


My statement means that I think the republicans are looking at immigration reform because they need to increase their mojo with immigrant voters. They need their votes. They can't win with just the white vote in a country in which the population is changing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Really? go ot and google some of the places in Asia where 12 women share a room with bunkbeds outside of the factories they work in. You will be horrified by the conditions that they work in.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Exactly what number would you state is the 2%'s ( up from the original 1%, i see) fair share of taxes? Your side always says the rich don't pay their fair share, Yet never offer an amount. Please provide a number. Thank you.


I really don't know and We're retired and out of the work force. I'll offer a guess: the top 1% is probably $500,000 and up and I might put the 2% at $300,000 and up. How does that sound?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> My statement means that I think the republicans are looking at immigration reform because they need to increase their mojo with immigrant voters. They need their votes. They can't win with just the white vote in a country in which the population is changing.


They need to get their party straightened up before they do anything. What was once a very formidable party has turned into a barrel of monkeys. They can't get along with each other let alone any other party.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What makes you think that American companies overseas are treating them any differently?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> okay you are talking about companies that move from the US to countries that have horrible working conditions for their employees. Which is horrible!
> 
> but still no comment about Germany and Japan, from the number of those cars in my area, they surely could employ hundreds or more of their citizens, how do they feel about having their cars produced here. Do they consider it outsourcing?


I don't know if they consider it outsourcing, but I would think that the Corporations get a certain amount of money from each vehicle produced. This should be helpful to the workers in Japan and Germany overall keeping their HQ prosperous.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


That remark was absolutely uncalled for. You really are a disgusting person.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

[quote=BrattyPatty. Wasting time with fillibusters like that of Rand Paul achieves nothing. [quote

Waste of time to have clarified that drones can't be used in the US to kill US citizens who are suspected of being terrorists. 
It must worked as the he got his answer from AG Holder that they US govt can't do that.

WASHINGTON (AP)  A Republican critic of the Obama administration's drone policy succeeded Wednesday in blocking a vote on John Brennan's nomination to be CIA director over questions about the possible use of the unmanned weapons against American citizens.

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., mounted a filibuster against President Barack Obama's pick to lead the spy agency and he demanded that Obama or Attorney General Eric Holder issue a statement making clear that drones would not be used in the United States to kill terrorism suspects who are U.S. citizens.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he planned to file a motion to bring debate over Brennan's nomination to lead the spy agency to an end. But he would need 60 votes in the 100-member Senate to do that. Reid had been pushing for a confirmation vote to be held Wednesday, but those plans were dashed by Paul's lengthy floor speech.

Paul began speaking shortly before noon on what he said was the Obama administration's refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes inside U.S. borders against American citizens. Sens. Mike Lee, R-Utah, Ted Cruz, R-Texas, Jerry Moran, R-Kan., Marco Rubio, R-Fla., and Ron Wyden, D-Ore., joined Paul several hours after he began speaking. Wyden has long pressed for greater oversight of the use of drones.

Paul said he would be willing to end his filibuster and proceed to a vote if he received the statement from the president or the attorney general. Holder came close to making such a statement earlier in the day during an exchange with Cruz at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, according to Paul.

Cruz asked Holder if the Constitution allowed the federal government to kill a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil who doesn't pose an imminent threat. Holder said the situation was hypothetical, but that he did not think that in that situation the use of a drone or lethal force would be appropriate. Cruz criticized Holder for not simply saying "no" in response.

In a letter sent Tuesday to Paul, Brennan said the CIA does not have authority to conduct lethal operations inside the U.S.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That remark was absolutely uncalled for. You really are a disgusting person.


That was all settled before. Let's keep it that way. Stirring the pot won't change a thing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

He knew before he fillibustered that drones wouldn't be used on American citizens. The things he said were pure BS." Oh this drone could strike you at any time". He did this with several scenarios and then later, "I am not saying that the president will do this." It was the most unbearble fillibuster I had ever seen.
Words weren't good enough for him. The attorney general had to give the nut job a letter. 
A fillibuster full of fearmongering, and a grandstand for him for his run for office in 2016. I am not at all surprised that Rubio, Cruz(McCarthy reincarnated)were next to him. It was a feast for squirrels.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I have no idea what brought this on, but I heard no one using obscenities except Yarnie--before, during, or after this little episode. Language like that is completely inappropriate.


So was your disgusting feeble attempt at a joke about a seizure at Yarnie's expense.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I really don't know and We're retired and out of the work force. I'll offer a guess: the top 1% is probably $500,000 and up and I might put the 2% at $300,000 and up. How does that sound?


This is what the problem is. People talk about the 2%, but what is it? Also if you make 500K in NYC and have a mortgage (average home in the city is around 500K) do you have the same disposable income as someone making 500K living in a paid off family home in Mississippi? It is not the number, not the amount that people make, it is their disposable income. How can you penalize someone that makes 500K, that is paying a mortgage, has kids, supporting their parents in their old age and live in LA....and so on. They can't afford more taxes !

It all sound fine and dandy to bash the accomplished, but is a random number fair and accurate? You decide.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC

Why do you continue to return to Germany/ Japan "outsourcing". Is it ok to ask you to address what others, myself included, are talking about with U S corporations leaving the US so they can have lower production costs and higher profits with no environmental, safety, and minimum wage regulations?


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> My statement means that I think the republicans are looking at immigration reform because they need to increase their mojo with immigrant voters. They need their votes. They can't win with just the white vote in a country in which the population is changing.


First if an immigrant isn't a citizen they can't vote. 
From my reading this bill would provide a way for people who have entered our country illegally a chance to get green cards and maybe become citizens if they decide to do that.

As a child of immigrants I hope that something can be agreed upon especially for the children who have been brought here by their parents and in many ways are not real citizens of any country, especially if they came at a very early age.

This is not a question of getting votes but solving a major problem our country has. If either party just sees it as a way to get votes, then they(congress) are wrong


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> This is what the problem is. People talk about the 2%, but what is it? Also if you make 500K in NYC and have a mortgage (average home in the city is around 500K) do you have the same disposable income as someone making 500K living in a paid off family home in Mississippi? It is not the number, not the amount that people make, it is their disposable income. How can you penalize someone that makes 500K, that is paying a mortgage, has kids, supporting their parents in their old age and live in LA....and so on. They can't afford more taxes !
> 
> It all sound fine and dandy to bash the accomplished, but is a random number fair and accurate? You decide.


Is it fair they they get tax loopholes when someone in a lower income bracket with the same scenario ie. mortgage, family, and taking care of their parents don't get them?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> First if an immigrant isn't a citizen they can't vote.
> From my reading this bill would provide a way for people who have entered our country illegally a chance to get green cards and maybe become citizens if they decide to do that.
> 
> As a child of immigrants I hope that something can be agreed upon especially for the children who have been brought here by their parents and in many ways are not real citizens of any country, especially if they came at a very early age.
> ...


We are all children , grandchildren, or great grandchildren of immigrants. Also they are not illegal, just without green cards. We need to have a sensible immigrant worker program and we also need to get rid of NAFTA (thank the dems for that piece of crap) and have policies that help other countries have a healthy economy one that does not rob their country of resources they need.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I did not know about the epilepsy, but obviously Susan did, or she would not have made that comment. What a cruel thing to say. If I had known about her epilepsy, there is no way I would have baited her, viciously attacked her, ganged up on her, ridiculed her....... knowing that stress could bring on another seizure. You have once again proven that you and your friends are some of the cruelest people on this forum, shame on you.
> 
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/provoke_stress


Well said.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

See recently posted Robert Reich article.



soloweygirl said:


> Exactly what number would you state is the 2%'s ( up from the original 1%, i see) fair share of taxes? Your side always says the rich don't pay their fair share, Yet never offer an amount. Please provide a number. Thank you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Knowing that she had an illness, baiting her, not considering that your attack could cause her stress level to get so high and her body so out of balance and she might not be thinking clearly,getting her stress level so high that it put her in physical danger is what you did wrong. Shame on you and the wild dog pack that went for the kill. I read all the pages from last night, and I could read the stress and anxiety in her posts. I would have left her alone, but no not you. You who pontificated your good behavior during Holy Week has shown your true character. Shame on you again.


I personally know a lot about epilepsy because I have it myself. I know for a fact that epilepsy does not cause one to go off the deep end as your friend has done. Most all with epilesy have it under control with medication and your friend and the rest of you are barking up the wrong tree when you use this disease as an excuse for such bad behavior. It is an insult to me and all others who have epilepsy. Three others in my family also have it and none of them act that way. Unless, they told you you would never know they have it and the same is true with me. She may need doctors care for some other illness that causes he to act the way she does or she may "use" this as an excuse for her bad behavior. Please quit with blaming epilepsy. I am extremely upset by your misunderstanding of this disease and I hope I never see this feeble excuse used again out here. I need no sympathy from anyone and I am not seeking any. I have a wonderful neurologist who takes care of me and hopefully so does your friend. Thank you.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just don't get this at all. Are the job creators intentionally not creating jobs right now? They don't want to give American workers a living wage so they run to China, India, Malaysia, etc. to hire cheap labor. I don't feel sorry for the job creators who are not creating jobs.


You are correct and it is my belief it has little to do with their not wanting to pay what ever your definition is of a living wage. They are just not creating jobs right now. The poor economy and the lack of a budget that will tell them how much more they will need to pay are a couple of the reasons why.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Off2knit, I was really shocked that someone would tell us about a health problem Yarnie herself hadn't told us about. Yarnie is and should be the only person to talk publically about her health.
> 
> Yarnie, I hope you have a better day today.


Yarnie told us of her health problem last year. There was a discussion of it when Ingreid, Northwoodsgal, LillyK, etc .,were all on the forum. It resurfaced in the most disgusting way thanks to Susan2000.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well said.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I personally know a lot about epilepsy because I have it myself. I know for a fact that epilepsy does not cause one to go off the deep end as your friend has done. Most all with epilesy have it under control with medication and your friend and the rest of you are barking up the wrong tree when you use this disease as an excuse for such bad behavior. It is an insult to me and all others who have epilepsy. Three others in my family also have it and none of them act that way. Unless, they told you you would never know they have it and the same is true with me. She may need doctors care for some other illness that causes he to act the way she does or she may "use" this as an excuse for her bad behavior. Please quit with blaming epilepsy. I am extremely upset by your misunderstanding of this disease and I hope I never see this feeble excuse used again out here. I need no sympathy from anyone and I am not seeking any. I have a wonderful neurologist who takes care of me and hopefully so does your friend. Thank you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> This is what the problem is. People talk about the 2%, but what is it? Also if you make 500K in NYC and have a mortgage (average home in the city is around 500K) do you have the same disposable income as someone making 500K living in a paid off family home in Mississippi? It is not the number, not the amount that people make, it is their disposable income. How can you penalize someone that makes 500K, that is paying a mortgage, has kids, supporting their parents in their old age and live in LA....and so on. They can't afford more taxes !
> 
> It all sound fine and dandy to bash the accomplished, but is a random number fair and accurate? You decide.


I'm sorry, but if someone is having trouble living on $500,000 and can't make it, I question their style of life. I don't care where they live.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm with Bernie on this one!


Me too, Bernie is my kind of Senator. A man of and for the people! :thumbup:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> sjrNC
> 
> Why do you continue to return to Germany/ Japan "outsourcing". Is it ok to ask you to address what others, myself included, are talking about with U S corporations leaving the US so they can have lower production costs and higher profits with no environmental, safety, and minimum wage regulations?


I was just raising a point about how other companies from other countries produce products here in the US that could be looked at as outsourcing things by their citizens.

No it is wrong for companies to leave the US to for reasons you stated.

It has happened to the textile industry in my state. Most yarns and fabrics are manufactured in foreign countries. Our textile workers have had to learn other skills.

Are the goods produced in other countries at a lower production cost sold to people in those countries. Just curious.

We live in a global society.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Free country. Live below your means. Move if necessary.



alcameron said:


> I'm sorry, but if someone is having trouble living on $500,000 and can't make it, I question their style of life. I don't care where they live.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Well said.


I distinctly remember YarnLady getting upset with anyone who called her problem a disability. I have always thought of it as a disability, but with medication, I guess it's well-controlled.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Yarnie told us of her health problem last year. There was a discussion of it when Ingreid, Northwoodsgal, LillyK, etc .,were all on the forum. It resurfaced in the most disgusting way thanks to Susan2000.


Why keep dragging around a dead horse? Is this entertainment for you? Because there are people like me who did not know of this and her words left a very bad taste in my mouth at the time. It's over. Let it be.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I distinctly remember YarnLady getting upset with anyone who called her problem a disability. I have always thought of it as a disability, but with medication, I guess it's well-controlled.


My cousin has epilepsy also. She does not have the type of epilepsy that brings on grand mal siezures, but once in a while would fall or seem disoriented while she was on medication. It turned out that it was not the epilepsy that caused those things to happen, but scar tissue on the brain from a childhood bout of menengitis. She had brain surgery 7 years ago and no longer takes meds for epilepsy.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I found this. Maybe it will clarify what is meant by super-rich. Sources are at the end of the video.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I was just raising a point about how other companies from other countries produce products here in the US that could be looked at as outsourcing things by their citizens.
> 
> No it is wrong for companies to leave the US to for reasons you stated.
> 
> ...


we may at that, but I sure miss the old Made in the USA labels!
Or made with pride in the USA. Now it would have to read Made in the USA with foreign materials or Made for the USA.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Yarnie told us of her health problem last year. There was a discussion of it when Ingreid, Northwoodsgal, LillyK, etc .,were all on the forum. It resurfaced in the most disgusting way thanks to Susan2000.


solowaygirl - I remember when Yarnlady shared that information with us and we had a nice exchange of PM's about our epilepsy. I have sympathy for anyone that has it as it can be trying at times to deal with. I myself have grand mal seizures and am under good control with meds but if my neurologist ever saw me behave the way yarnlady did he would refer me to a psychiatrist for further care or he may do an MRI to check for a brain tumor or possible stroke which can cause such symptoms as yarnlady exhibited.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it fair they they get tax loopholes when someone in a lower income bracket with the same scenario ie. mortgage, family, and taking care of their parents don't get them?


Yes, because the wealthier people pay a higher tax rate, so they still end up paying more of a percentage of their income than those that use the ez-form who pay a lesser percentage of their income. And there is a cap on FICA deductions. You pay FICA every month, but after a certain amount the remainder is not deductible. Is that fair, that they pay more and do not get the deductions that others do? The top 10% wage earners pay 70% of the taxes. Enough is enough. Why would anyone want to improve themselves, make more money only to have it taxed at a higher rate? More work, more taxes, less disposable income. Is that fair?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I found this. Maybe it will clarify what is meant by super-rich. Sources are at the end of the video.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> solowaygirl - I remember when Yarnlady shared that information with us and we had a nice exchange of PM's about our epilepsy. I have sympathy for anyone that has it as it can be trying at times to deal with. I myself have grand mal seizures and am under good control with meds but if my neurologist ever saw me behave the way yarnlady did he would refer me to a psychiatrist for further care or he may do an MRI to check for a brain tumor or possible stroke which can cause such symptoms as yarnlady exhibited.


You do? Just out of curiosity have you had a name change too?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> You'll have to lump it then. I'm not a fan of your writings either but you have every right to express yourself.


Hang in there Anne. You can comment on my posts whenever you like. :thumbup:


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm sorry, but if someone is having trouble living on $500,000 and can't make it, I question their style of life. I don't care where they live.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hang in there Anne. You can comment on my posts whenever you like. :thumbup:


Wow, that makes a nice change. Thanks very much.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Me too, Bernie is my kind of Senator. A man of and for the people! :thumbup:


He is the best! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Now HE should run for President!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron wrote:
I'm sorry, but if someone is having trouble living on $500,000 and can't make it, I question their style of life. I don't care where they live.




medusa



Sounds like class envy to me. You are not entitled to their money. You want to make 500K and live their lifestyle go for it, it is the American Dream. But to put down the achievers is horrible


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

This was written last year by my favorite guy, Robert Reich. I know it's long and people don't want to read "all that stuff" but it talks to wealth distribution and "job creators." You can even read it later!


The most troubling economic trend facing America this Labor Day weekend is the increasing concentration of income, wealth, and political power at the very top - among a handful of extraordinarily wealthy people - and the steady decline of the great American middle class.

Inequality in America is at record levels. The 400 richest Americans now have more wealth than the bottom 150 million of us put together.

Republicans claim the rich are job creators. Nothing could be further from the truth. In order to create jobs, businesses need customers. But the rich spend only a small fraction of what they earn. They park most of it wherever around the world they can get the highest return.

The real job creators are the vast middle class, whose spending drives the economy and creates jobs.

But as the middle class's share of total income continues to drop, it cannot spend as much as before. Nor can most Americans borrow as they did before the crash of 2008 - borrowing that temporarily masked their declining purchasing power.

As a result, businesses are reluctant to hire. This is the main reason why the recovery has been so anemic.

As wealth and income rise to the top, moreover, so does political power. The rich are able to entrench themselves by lowering their taxes, gaining special tax breaks (such as the "carried interest" loophole allowing private equity and hedge fund managers to treat their incomes as capital gains), and ensuring a steady flow of corporate welfare to their businesses (special breaks for oil and gas, big agriculture, big insurance, Big Pharma, and, of course, Wall Street).

All of this squeezes public budgets, corrupts government, and undermines our democracy. The issue isn't the size of our government; it's who our government is for. It has become less responsive to the needs of most citizens and more to the demands of a comparative few.

The Republican response - as we saw dramatically articulated this past week in Tampa - is to further reduce taxes on the rich, defund programs for the poor, fight unions, allow the median wage to continue to fall, and oppose any limits on campaign contributions or spending.

It does not take a great deal of brainpower to understand this strategy will lead to an even more lopsided economy, more entrenched wealth, and more corrupt democracy.

The question of the moment is whether next week President Obama will make a bold and powerful rejoinder. If he and the Democratic Party stand for anything, it must be to reverse this disastrous trend.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> And what those governments did to solve their problems is
> not working.


Possibly because they still need to do more cutting. It took awhile to get into their situation, it will take some time to come out of it. The cuts that need to be made are not easy decisions and will certainly be unpopular. The bottom line is they need to happen.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> He knew before he fillibustered that drones wouldn't be used on American citizens. The things he said were pure BS." Oh this drone could strike you at any time". He did this with several scenarios and then later, "I am not saying that the president will do this." It was the most unbearble fillibuster I had ever seen.
> Words weren't good enough for him. The attorney general had to give the nut job a letter.
> A fillibuster full of fearmongering, and a grandstand for him for his run for office in 2016. I am not at all surprised that Rubio, Cruz(McCarthy reincarnated)were next to him. It was a feast for squirrels.


A feast for squirrels - a perfect description! :-D


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Sounds like class envy to me. You are not entitled to their money. You want to make 500K and live their lifestyle go for it, it is the American Dream. But to put down the achievers is horrible


I doubt they'll be lying awake worrying about it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Sounds like class envy to me. You are not entitled to their money. You want to make 500K and live their lifestyle go for it, it is the American Dream. But to put down the achievers is horrible


No it is NOT class envy. For all you know, I might be there. I just happen to think that with all that wealth, you ought to be able to live a very decent life style and still pay your fair share. These people pay a pittance compared to someone making $50,000/year. I'm talking about percentage of income. The middle class is paying for these people!
Just as an added question, how do you rationalize that type of luxurious lifestyle with the message of the gospel?


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

off2knit said:


> alcameron wrote:
> I'm sorry, but if someone is having trouble living on $500,000 and can't make it, I question their style of life. I don't care where they live.
> 
> medusa
> ...


You don't know my income or lifestyle so please don't jump to any conclusions. I don't want anyone's money - I have enough of my own, thank you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I just don't get this at all. Are the job creators intentionally not creating jobs right now? They don't want to give American workers a living wage so they run to China, India, Malaysia, etc. to hire cheap labor. I don't feel sorry for the job creators who are not creating jobs.


Many, many job creators are small businesses. They are not large corporations. All the new taxes, regulations and mandates are hurting them. They have to decide if they can afford to hire one worker, or should that money be saved and put back into the business. Now they have to deal with Obamacare.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Possibly because they still need to do more cutting. It took awhile to get into their situation, it will take some time to come out of it. The cuts that need to be made are not easy decisions and will certainly be unpopular. The bottom line is they need to happen.


Do you understand that sometimes there is nothing left to cut?? It happens in governments and it happens in poor families.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Many, many job creators are small businesses. They are not large corporations. All the new taxes, regulations and mandates are hurting them. They have to decide if they can afford to hire one worker, or should that money be saved and put back into the business. Now they have to deal with Obamacare.


One more reason to raise taxes on the super rich and plug up the loopholes. Large corporations should not get away with paying nothing---and that's what many of them pay!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> No it is NOT class envy. For all you know, I might be there. I just happen to think that with all that wealth, you ought to be able to live a very decent life style and still pay your fair share. These people pay a pittance compared to someone making $50,000/year. I'm talking about percentage of income. The middle class is paying for these people!
> Just as an added question, how do you rationalize that type of luxurious lifestyle with the message of the gospel?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Super rich and a company is not the same thing. Please you are way off the mark. Super rich already pay more taxes. Companies are the source of jobs. Tax breaks allow them to hire more people.
Get with it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> One more reason to raise taxes on the super rich and plug up the loopholes. Large corporations should not get away with paying nothing---and that's what many of them pay!!


We should also cut subsidies to oil companies that they don't really need. More spending cuts right there.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Middle class is NOT paying for these (rich)people. Rich people are paying for them!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The corporations that have gone overseas are not dying of financial woes. Government regulation of companies/corporations relate to safe working conditions, environmental safety and pollution, and yes minimum wage requirements. I do not think anyone wants to return to the early 20th century and shirtwaist factory fires. Corprations want unlimited peofit with no resonsibility to the countries where they manufacture. Look at what is happening in India, Southeast Asian countries etc where there are no regulations on safety and environment. The corporartions are not bleeding, but their workers are suffering and in some cases dying.


You are addressing corporations only. Small businesses have not gone overseas, they get their workforce here and comply with regulations and safety issues. Small businesses provide the majority of the private sector jobs.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hardly. What is your definition of "rich people"? The middle class pays a higher tax percentage on their income than those making more than 250,000.00 on up. Google it


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Super rich and a company is not the same thing. Please you are way off the mark. Super rich already pay more taxes. Companies are the source of jobs. Tax breaks allow them to hire more people.
> Get with it.


Oh, I thought corporations were people. That's what the Supreme Court told us.
Why aren't they hiring then? They're already enjoying tax breaks.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Middle class is NOT paying for these (rich)people. Rich people are paying for them!


Not true!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are addressing corporations only. Small businesses have not gone overseas, they get their workforce here and comply with regulations and safety issues. Small businesses provide the majority of the private sector jobs.


And just how many jobs can a small business create? Not many compared to those manufacturing jobs that have left the country.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

As enlightening as this discussion is, I do have other responsibilities.
Latergators


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Really wasn't going to comment any more as I need to practice short rows for the next clue for the game of thrones kal and basketball will be on soon, although my teams aren't playing.

What tax loopholes are you talking about, all can take deductions on mortgage, family etc.

Sometimes people don't have enough deductions to make a difference, so they file using the short form. 
A person with lower income would get a bigger deduction from medical since it has to be a certain percentage of your income before it is deductible, and someone with a high income needs a very large amount of medical bills.

Maybe a flat tax would be fair on everyone with no deductions. But
What is a fair amount..

Seems what is fair amount is never answered.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I really don't know and We're retired and out of the work force. I'll offer a guess: the top 1% is probably $500,000 and up and I might put the 2% at $300,000 and up. How does that sound?


I was referring to paying ones fair share of taxes, that the Democrats are always demanding. What is that fair share? That's the number I'm interested in.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Me too. Going to the movies then dinner with my DH.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I was referring to paying ones fair share of taxes, that the Democrats ar.e always demanding. What is that fair share? That's the number I'm interested in.


Do your own homework :-D Google is a great tool


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm out! See you al, later!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You are addressing corporations only. Small businesses have not gone overseas, they get their workforce here and comply with regulations and safety issues. Small businesses provide the majority of the private sector jobs.


I have nothing against small businesses. I agree we need more small businesses. There are some great examples of successful community co ops that are not suffering from the regulations etc. One such co op is in Cleveland Ohio. It is Evergreen Co operative Laundry. This is the type of small business that is the wave of the future. Check it out.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> We are all children , grandchildren, or great grandchildren of immigrants. Also they are not illegal, just without green cards. We need to have a sensible immigrant worker program and we also need to get rid of NAFTA (thank the dems for that piece of crap) and have policies that help other countries have a healthy economy one that does not rob their country of resources they need.


If they do not have green cards, they did not go about obtaining legal entry into this country. Therefore, they are illegal immigrants. They made the decision to enter this country illegally from the beginning, thus breaking our laws. They should not be given any preferential treatment and certainly not a "pass" just because they have been here for awhile.

Congress needs to slow down and take their time crafting any reform. They don't need the President off campaigning for reform, putting pressure on Congress to act quickly.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why keep dragging around a dead horse? Is this entertainment for you? Because there are people like me who did not know of this and her words left a very bad taste in my mouth at the time. It's over. Let it be.


I was replying to SeattleSoul. You can insult me all you want. You are dragging this around by your tasteless comments. So take your own advice and let it be.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Hey Rocky how about you you haven't said anything to me yet? bring it on.


Actually I am catching up on the rancor of this site. I actually have a life outside of this forum. I have to put on my waders before I can catch up. Lots of pages to peruse. If I have anything to add, I will do so at the risk of my reputation. It's hard to maintain the Hateful description, when everyone here is trying so hard to compete for first place.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I distinctly remember YarnLady getting upset with anyone who called her problem a disability. I have always thought of it as a disability, but with medication, I guess it's well-controlled.


I do not consider myself disabled because of my epilepsy. There are some, like my niece, who is disabled because her seizures began when she was only a few months old and seizures can cause brain damage to infants brains that are not completely formed yet. My niece is now in her twenties and has several uncontrolled seizures daily and her developmental age is that of a toddler. Because she will always need constant care she is disabled but if you can live a relatively normal life it is really not a disability.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If they do not have green cards, they did not go about obtaining legal entry into this country. Therefore, they are illegal immigrants. They made the decision to enter this country illegally from the beginning, thus breaking our laws. They should not be given any preferential treatment and certainly not a "pass" just because they have been here for awhile.
> 
> Congress needs to slow down and take their time crafting any reform. They don't need the President off campaigning for reform, putting pressure on Congress to act quickly.


Well I have a philosophic belief that no person is legal or illegl in relation to country boundries. Call me a radical I know.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Do you understand that sometimes there is nothing left to cut?? It happens in governments and it happens in poor families.


Of course I understand that. I have cut all I can cut, unless I don't want electricity, gas or water. Our government has plenty of places to make cuts that won't hurt the services they provide to those that are in need. Take away funding for bridges to nowhere, turtle crossings, money lent to other countries so they can do studies that have little meaning, etc. Get rid of all the waste and we would have a healthy economy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Actually I am catching up on the rancor of this site. I actually have a life outside of this forum. I have to put on my waders before I can catch up. Lots of pages to peruse. If I have anything to add, I will do so at the risk of my reputation. It's hard to maintain the Hateful description, when everyone here is trying so hard to compete for first place.


Why would anyone want to maintain a "hateful"description. I avoid the "h" word religiously.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do your own homework :-D Google is a great tool


I have. All the dems say is the rich should pay their fair share. Even the President says that, yet never gives a figure. So again, what is one's fair share?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

And Obama is ruining small businesses.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He is absolutely destroying our country.


I thought the Republicans wanted to gut SS, Medicare and Medicaid. He is just helping them out. You would like a voucher wouldn't you? Paul Ryan's budget sound good to you? Just what do you Reps want? I don't want Obama to cut SS Medicare and Medicaid. Actually I wish he would spend more and really get the economy moving.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well I have a philosophic belief that no person is legal or illegl in relation to country boundries. Call me a radical I know.


I'm right there with you. Makes me think of Lennon/McCartney's beautiful song Imagine. That's my kind of hymn.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I do not get $15,000 a year from SS so any cut will hurt me horribly as I live very frugally as it is.


It is time for all of us, whether Rep or Dem, to let our congressional representatives know how we feel. I'm thinking that Obama is feeling that he has to save us from the Ryan budget, which is even more devastating. Time for all of us to get involved.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is God/god acting through the powergrid?


No my dear, God loves me as I have lived with an illness where most people are dead by now.

Guess you thought you were funny about telling me if I would shoot an intruder, it would blow me up! Well, what fun did you have writing those words?

You started with the hatefulness first now you are yelling help from your friends!

Mom, I'm home!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, I absolutely would not want a voucher. Ryan sounds very good to me. Like the guy. Has more brains than Obama.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I thought the Republicans wanted to gut SS, Medicare and Medicaid. He is just helping them out. You would like a voucher wouldn't you? Paul Ryan's budget sound good to you? Just what do you Reps want? I don't want Obama to cut SS Medicare and Medicaid. Actually I wish he would spend more and really get the economy moving.


That is what we need. We stopped short of pumping up the economy and we are having to take another run at the hill. Obama is going to have a lot of unhappy people if he cuts programs we all contributed to with the promise it would help us in our retirement. For too many it's all they have to live on.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, I absolutely would not want a voucher. Ryan sounds very good to me. Like the guy. Has more brains than Obama.


Ryan is the one who wants vouchers. So how can you see him as the good guy?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Not a lecture Off2knit.
> 
> This is my opinion only.
> 
> ...


Off2Knit is our Superior Empress. We have been trying to set-up our kingdom but get sidetracked by nasty people.

Want to join us for fun?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What is this 'we' business? Sounds like a preschool teacher lecturing her students


Perhaps that is what we need. Each of us has to regroup and start from scratch. This name calling, bullying has gone pretty far. Since this is a public forum, each of should be allowed to voice our opinions. We do have deep seated differences, but the ground rules should begin with respect. We have all learned that we are not going to change anyone's mind, so making pronouncements and value judgments offers no positive value. OOPs I suppose that just eliminated our forum. Just a little humor. It would be nice to have a real discussion using facts instead of feelings.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

SS needs some reforming. Yes it is solvent for another 20 to 30 years, but as baby boomers start drawing SS sooner or later we aren't going to have enough money to pay them what they thought they would be getting. 
There will not be as many people in the work force, I believe that is what Robert reich said in his article

People are living longer, thus collecting SS longer. Longer than they could have paid in.

Many companies no longer offer pension plans and people don't save for their retirement, plus many saw their 401's take a dive, hopefully they have seen some come back with the stock market doing well. 

Something really does need to be done, and why not start now instead of waiting until it is really a crisis. 
So a person that is in their 30's might need to work until 67?
Is that so wrong if it helps fix a problem.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh really. And that was not the Democrats' goal for President Bush? Just because McConnell, Boehner and Cantor don't agree with Obama's position, does not make them obstructionists, it is them doing their job. Their job is to represent those who elected them. Baiting them? Seems to me that if that were the case the Dems are back to their book of dirty plays. When you bait something you are hunting. Are they hunting? Are they going in for the kill? Maybe that's why we need gun control.


They did get together to plan their strategy for being obstructionist. Their use of the filibuster is at record high, this was a plan to make him fail. The trouble is, that by taking down Obama they are brining the rest of the country with it.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> SS needs some reforming. Yes it is solvent for another 20 to 30 years, but as baby boomers start drawing SS sooner or later we aren't going to have enough money to pay them what they thought they would be getting.
> There will not be as many people in the work force, I believe that is what Robert reich said in his article
> 
> People are living longer, thus collecting SS longer. Longer than they could have paid in.
> ...


Ask them. Why should you determine when a person retires, especially later than you were allowed to retire? Sounds like you are taking what you are entitled to, but want to make it harder on the younger generation, not better. We created the problem, we should be the solution. Life is not a game of kick the can, we need to solve the problem now and not kick the problem down the road to fix another day.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hang in there Anne. You can comment on my posts whenever you like. :thumbup:


Boy, I say boy, you're about to exceed the limitations of my medications!

You 2 deserve each other!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Wow, that makes a nice change. Thanks very much.


Speaking my mind is easy, speaking it tactfully, not so much. . . .


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Am I getting some Prada stuff, my beloved Queen?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Speaking my mind is easy, speaking it tactfully, not so much. . . .


Quite. I'm trying to reform though.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So was your disgusting feeble attempt at a joke about a seizure at Yarnie's expense.


Beaten that one to death, it is over.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

No I would like the younger generation to have SS when they reach retirement age. 

So if we created the problem, how would you solve it? 
Make the baby boomers who are now retiring work longer. Lower the amount of benefits people receive now or not give the amount people now are counting on. Seems that is changing the rules at the end of the game.


From the SS site, seems it is already 67 for people born after 1959.

Full retirement age (also called "normal retirement age") had been 65 for many years. However, beginning with people born in 1938 or later, that age gradually increases until it reaches 67 for people born after 1959.

The 1983 Social Security Amendments included a provision for raising the full retirement age beginning with people born in 1938 or later. The Congress cited improvements in the health of older people and increases in average life expectancy as primary reasons for increasing the normal retirement age. 

Note: If you were born on January 1st of any year you should refer to the previous year. 



Working on solving the problem now is what I am suggesting, not kicking the can down the road. 

Asking 20 to 30 year olds to maybe work a year longer to guarantee they will have benefits I don't think is just thinking of myself. I want my children to have the same benefits I am able


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Off2Knit is certainly not my Supreme Empress. 

And no Janeway, I do not want to partake in what you call "fun". I personally do not see it that way.

Mostly just an observer and learning.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Boy, I say boy, you're about to exceed the limitations of my medications!
> 
> You 2 deserve each other!


Janeway thanks. I'm sure we will be very happy together along with the rest of the kind people out here. I must be very deserving because I am very happy with my lovely circle of friends!
Don't overdue it dear don't want you to have to rush off to the pharmacy or the ER for some extra meds!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Am I getting some Prada stuff, my beloved Queen?


Our Superior Empress will instruct on our kingdom as what supplies we need. So hang tight.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Whatever you say, my Queen.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Am I getting some Prada stuff, my beloved Queen?


Buy American, skip the Pradas. I can't afford Pradas.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, we must buy American goods.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Back to infantile discourse. What is the point?

[Edit: this was in response to the empress rubbish that's started up again.]


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FUN!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Janeway thanks. I'm sure we will be very happy together along with the rest of the kind people out here. I must be very deserving because I am very happy with my lovely circle of friends!
> Don't overdue it dear don't want you to have to rush off to the pharmacy or the ER for some extra meds!


I'm sorry , in order for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion. Nice try though!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Back to infantile discourse. What is the point?
> 
> [Edit: this was in response to the empress rubbish that's started up again.]


Everyone has the right to be stupid. . . It's just that some people abuse the privilege. . . .


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Everyone has the right to be stupid. . . It's just that some people abuse the privilege. . . .


At last we agree on something.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Our Superior Empress will instruct on our kingdom as what supplies we need. So hang tight.


Superior Empress, pleeeeease! You are so funny Janeway. 
That's the best joke I have heard today. Enjoy yourself in never neverland. 
:thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Superior Empress, pleeeeease! You are so funny Janeway.
> That's the best joke I have heard today. Enjoy yourself in never neverland.
> :thumbup:


Thank you as this is the very "first" compliment you have ever given me. I feel so good!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Perhaps some people are at a low blood sugar level and need to eat a little something to help get back to positive discourse. I know I am feeling a bit peckish after my morning of picking up my bucket of compost at the community giveaway and spending 2 hours weeding.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Yarnie told us of her health problem last year. There was a discussion of it when Ingreid, Northwoodsgal, LillyK, etc .,were all on the forum. It resurfaced in the most disgusting way thanks to Susan2000.


I missed that discussion. Probably before my time here on KP. I still think it's pretty low to attack Yarnie and blame epilepsy for her bad temper yesterday. What was accomplished after all?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm sorry , in order for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion. Nice try though!


Right back at you, Janeway. I am not trying to earn your respect. I just ask for civil behavior. I am sure I have nothing to prove to you. Why do you always think everyone is trying to insult you? Could it be all the insults you hurl out at others are flying back at you now? So sad for you that you just can't be nice to all others. Your world would be a much nicer place. Just saying. I like you Janeway. Just push that chip off your shoulder. I'm sure it's pretty hard to carry around with you having to be on the defensive all the time and carrying that block around too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as this is the very "first" compliment you have ever given me. I feel so good!


Your welcome Janeway. Who knows we could end up being friends.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Super rich and a company is not the same thing. Please you are way off the mark. Super rich already pay more taxes. Companies are the source of jobs. Tax breaks allow them to hire more people.
> Get with it.


Tell me how they are hiring? There is no demand for supply and they have found that they can do more with less people on the payroll. Have you seen the percentage of rich people to middle class people today. The CEO's make 300x the average worker. They certainly do not need tax breaks.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> We should also cut subsidies to oil companies that they don't really need. More spending cuts right there.


The oil lobby is so powerful, and it is global. They now own the politicians in Canada......TAR SANDS. I believe all lobbyists should be banned.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> The oil lobby is so powerful, and it is global. They now own the politicians in Canada......TAR SANDS. I believe all lobbyists should be banned.


I agree lobbyists are a bad lot generally speaking. The tar Sands issues scares the crap out of me. Also fracking.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, I absolutely would not want a voucher. Ryan sounds very good to me. Like the guy. Has more brains than Obama.


If he is so brainy, they why does he want a voucher system? If you really liked his brains you would advocate for vouchers.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> The oil lobby is so powerful, and it is global. They now own the politicians in Canada......TAR SANDS. I believe all lobbyists should be banned.


That would be step in the right direction. We have to get our legislators weaned off of lobbyist's money. The individual can't compete with that kind of power.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> SS needs some reforming. Yes it is solvent for another 20 to 30 years, but as baby boomers start drawing SS sooner or later we aren't going to have enough money to pay them what they thought they would be getting.
> There will not be as many people in the work force, I believe that is what Robert reich said in his article
> 
> People are living longer, thus collecting SS longer. Longer than they could have paid in.
> ...


I suppose I could live with that as long as I have a desk job and was not digging ditches at 67.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Full retirement age is now 67 for people born after 1959, the retirement age has slowly been increasing since 1983.
So 30 year olds will be working until 67 for full SS benefits.

Yes I really wouldn't want to be digging ditches at 67! 
But then don't they say that 60 is the new 40!!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Yes, because the wealthier people pay a higher tax rate, so they still end up paying more of a percentage of their income than those that use the ez-form who pay a lesser percentage of their income. And there is a cap on FICA deductions. You pay FICA every month, but after a certain amount the remainder is not deductible. Is that fair, that they pay more and do not get the deductions that others do? The top 10% wage earners pay 70% of the taxes. Enough is enough. Why would anyone want to improve themselves, make more money only to have it taxed at a higher rate? More work, more taxes, less disposable income. Is that fair?


No it is not fair. However, there are those who, for whatever reason, lack of education, lack of luck, lack of ambition, lack of opportunity, and just plain laziness, who resent and covert what others have earned, but they do not have.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Many, many job creators are small businesses. They are not large corporations. All the new taxes, regulations and mandates are hurting them. They have to decide if they can afford to hire one worker, or should that money be saved and put back into the business. Now they have to deal with Obamacare.


The job situation in VT is dismal. Because of the high taxes (generated by a distribution of wealth mentality) and anti-business mentality, many businesses have left, closed, or gone bankrupt, and it is almost impossible to attract new ones. There are empty stores, factories, malls everywhere. People who want jobs cannot find them, and if they do it is only temporary seasonal work at entry-level pay. Generational welfare recipients do not want to work as there is NO time limit for remaining on welfare in VT. This is Socialism at work and it is not something that will serve our nation well.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If they do not have green cards, they did not go about obtaining legal entry into this country. Therefore, they are illegal immigrants. They made the decision to enter this country illegally from the beginning, thus breaking our laws. They should not be given any preferential treatment and certainly not a "pass" just because they have been here for awhile.
> 
> Congress needs to slow down and take their time crafting any reform. They don't need the President off campaigning for reform, putting pressure on Congress to act quickly.


I agree - illegal is illegal and they should not receive Green Cards. Honest immigrants wait a long time to be admitted to the US. Once they get that Green Card they can go on the public dole and guess who pays? Why should they have advantages that they never contributed to?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> No it is not fair. However, there are those who, for whatever reason, lack of education, lack of luck, lack of ambition, lack of opportunity, and just plain laziness, who resent and covert what others have earned, but they do not have.[/
> 
> If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.
> If I took away 50% Of someone who earns 50,000 he would have just 25,000, probably not enough to live on.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well I have a philosophic belief that no person is legal or illegl in relation to country boundries. Call me a radical I know.


Y'all have no boundaries, do you? Try that in any other country.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Something to consider...
Morici: Obama's Policies Are 'Not Going to Fix the American Economy'
Friday, 05 Apr 2013 02:55 PM By David Nelson and Dan Weil
Fridays jobs data indicate the economy is slowing down, and President Barack Obama is a major part of the problem, says Peter Morici, professor of international business at the University of Maryland.

Non-farm payrolls rose only 88,000 in March. Its a very serious matter to have less than 100,000 jobs, Morici told Newsmax TV in an exclusive interview.

[Theres] this mythology in the White House that somehow you can raise taxes and not reduce jobs growth, although the Republicans believe that you can cut spending without reducing jobs growth, he said. Its not surprising that we have a lousy jobs report.
Obama is operating in a political manner, Morici said.

Until the president decides hes not running for president anymore and stops politicking the issue and starts seriously addressing the problems that are holding up the economy, he may be able to elevate somewhat his popularity ratings, but hes not going to fix the American economy.

The 24,000 decline in retail jobs during March was ominous, Morici said. That would indicate that the folks that run the department stores and the malls are expecting or even experiencing slower traffic in March and that will spill over into April.

The payroll tax increase may have caught up to spending for the middle class, and the income tax increase may have done so for the wealthy, Morici said. Both were implemented Jan. 1

Higher payroll taxes on working Americans, punitive taxes on job creators, nowhere have I learned either from my liberal or conservative professors that raising taxes in a weak recovery would create more jobs, Morici said.

He compares Obamas handling of the economy to President George W. Bush. They were both equally poor, producing economic growth of about 2.1 percent, Morici said.

The real problem in America, to be bipartisan, is we had one president who was too lazy to give a damn [Bush] and one president who really doesnt give a damn at all [Obama], he said. The reality is that there are things in America that need to be fixed, structural things in the economy, and pursuing social issues doesnt fix that. You cant run the economy like a Chicago ward."

Morici also sees similarities between Obama and House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan. He equates Ryans proposal to turn Medicare into a voucher program with Obamas proposal to limit Social Security cost-of-living increases.

Mr. Obama wants to worm away at their Social Security benefits, and Mr. Ryan wants to worm away at their Medicare benefits, both to balance the budget, Morici said.

Neither wants to really reform healthcare in the manner, say, that the Germans have. They have a private provider system, and they spend 12 percent of GDP on healthcare. We spend 18 percent.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > No it is not fair. However, there are those who, for whatever reason, lack of education, lack of luck, lack of ambition, lack of opportunity, and just plain laziness, who resent and covert what others have earned, but they do not have.[/
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Just got back from the movies. We saw Olympus Has Fallen.
It was DH's turn to pick this time. I thought "oh great, another action film, but this one was really good. Of course looking at Gerard Butler is always good. The wait at restautants were to long , so instead of dining out as we usually do, we got Chinese take out.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.

((((((Who are you to determine what is ample for someone to live on? The arrogance of a socialist to dictate what others need to live is appalling. ))))))))

If I took away 50% Of someone who earns 50,000 he would have just 25,000, probably not enough to live on.

((((((( How do you know? They may not have a mortgage, they may have millions in the bank. They may live with family...))))))))))

I think some of the problem of some people here is that they have no concept of what it's like to try to live on 25,000 a year. I don't think enough people have faced REALLY hard times.

((((((((So you want to punish them? Makes no sense. The class and money envy from you and others is, in my opinion, is criminal and is leading the world into a bunch of takers that believe they are entitled to other people's money.))))))))

That goes for our politicians, CEOs, bankers, Wall Street individuals, etc. If a gallon of milk goes up in price and you're earning 500,000 a year, you don't really feel it.

(((((((How do you know that?))))))

I'm trying to get across the point that there are people who are REALLY hurting, and you just want to say "tough" instead of looking at what's fair and what's just and what's right.[/quote]

(((((((It is not fair for you to take from people that make more money just because you think they don't need what they have earned. That attitude is probably causing people that have the money to share to withhold it. I know myself with the increase of my taxes, increase of gasoline, increase of food, increase of health insurance, utilities, car payment, church donations... I am unable to give as much as I did 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to give. And it appears I am not alone in that boat

http://blogs.barrons.com/penta/2013/02/04/charitable-giving-up-just-1-7/ )))))))))))))


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Amen


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just got back from the movies. We saw Olympus Has Fallen.
> It was DH's turn to pick this time. I thought "oh great, another action film, but this one was really good. Of course looking at Gerard Butler is always good. The wait at restautants were to long , so instead of dining out as we usually do, we got Chinese take out.


How nice you have enough extra money to have an evening out, movies are very expensive and so is food.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Oh for goodness' sake, leave off with the digs and sarky remarks. It's always personal with you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Anne,
I know a certain congresswoman here that was asked a question about taxes and the middle class and the burden that has been placed upon them.
Her response was "I don't see a problem like that. People love working 2 or 3 jobs." She is rated 11th for missing votes and "truancy"in the US House of Representatives, yet she collects a full check. She and her husband own a mental health clinic which receives federal money, while campaigning to cut federal spending. She has nothing on a box of rocks in my opinion, but somehow she manages to slide by in the elections,
however this time she barely made it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> How nice you have enough extra money to have an evening out, movies are very expensive and so is food.


Go scratch....
Maybe if you managed your money a little better, you could too!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Anne,
> I know a certain congresswoman here that was asked a question about taxes and the middle class and the burden that has been placed upon them.
> Her response was "I don't see a problem like that. People love working 2 or 3 jobs." She is rated 11th for missing votes and "truancy"in the US House of Representatives, yet she collects a full check. She and her husband own a mental health clinic which receives federal money, while campaigning to cut federal spending. She has nothing on a box of rocks in my opinion, but somehow she manages to slide by in the elections,
> however this time she barely made it.


Aye, one rule for them...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.
> 
> ((((((Who are you to determine what is ample for someone to live on? The arrogance of a socialist to dictate what others need to live is appalling. ))))))))
> 
> ...


(((((((It is not fair for you to take from people that make more money just because you think they don't need what they have earned. That attitude is probably causing people that have the money to share to withhold it. I know myself with the increase of my taxes, increase of gasoline, increase of food, increase of health insurance, utilities, car payment, church donations... I am unable to give as much as I did 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to give. And it appears I am not alone in that boat

http://blogs.barrons.com/penta/2013/02/04/charitable-giving-up-just-1-7/ )))))))))))))[/quote]

wow even with all the parentheses I couldn't bother to read this drek.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.
> 
> ((((((Who are you to determine what is ample for someone to live on? The arrogance of a socialist to dictate what others need to live is appalling. ))))))))
> 
> ...


(((((((It is not fair for you to take from people that make more money just because you think they don't need what they have earned. That attitude is probably causing people that have the money to share to withhold it. I know myself with the increase of my taxes, increase of gasoline, increase of food, increase of health insurance, utilities, car payment, church donations... I am unable to give as much as I did 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to give. And it appears I am not alone in that boat

http://blogs.barrons.com/penta/2013/02/04/charitable-giving-up-just-1-7/ )))))))))))))[/quote]

I'm still waiting for one of you to reconcile your love of the wealthy with the message of the gospel.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Anne,
> I know a certain congresswoman here that was asked a question about taxes and the middle class and the burden that has been placed upon them.
> Her response was "I don't see a problem like that. People love working 2 or 3 jobs." She is rated 11th for missing votes and "truancy"in the US House of Representatives, yet she collects a full check. She and her husband own a mental health clinic which receives federal money, while campaigning to cut federal spending. She has nothing on a box of rocks in my opinion, but somehow she manages to slide by in the elections,
> however this time she barely made it.


Their "mental health" clinic is one of conversion therapy to "change" gay people.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm still waiting for one of you to reconcile your love of the wealthy with the message of the gospel.


p.s. SeattleSoul told me that I'm not really a socialist, but I don't care what you call me. Name calling is right up your alley.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.
> 
> ((((((Who are you to determine what is ample for someone to live on? The arrogance of a socialist to dictate what others need to live is appalling. ))))))))
> 
> ...


(((((((It is not fair for you to take from people that make more money just because you think they don't need what they have earned. That attitude is probably causing people that have the money to share to withhold it. I know myself with the increase of my taxes, increase of gasoline, increase of food, increase of health insurance, utilities, car payment, church donations... I am unable to give as much as I did 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to give. And it appears I am not alone in that boat

http://blogs.barrons.com/penta/2013/02/04/charitable-giving-up-just-1-7/ )))))))))))))[/quote]

And it's not fair for the middle class to support their tax bill, either.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Their "mental health" clinic is one of conversion therapy to "change" gay people.


I think she should be impeached nit only for her lying, but her stupidity.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> wow even with all the parentheses I couldn't bother to read this drek.


Love that word.. Derek, fits mist of The discourse on this forum.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think she should be impeached nit only for her lying, but her stupidity.


Right, Rocky? Looks like she may take a run at Al Franken's seat. She might have barely kept her seat last election, but if she runs for the senate the whole state will vote and she will lose. Keep your fingers crossed!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If I took away half of the money from someone earning. 500,000 a year he would still have 250,000, which is ample money to live on.
> 
> ((((((Who are you to determine what is ample for someone to live on? The arrogance of a socialist to dictate what others need to live is appalling. ))))))))
> 
> ...


(((((((It is not fair for you to take from people that make more money just because you think they don't need what they have earned. That attitude is probably causing people that have the money to share to withhold it. I know myself with the increase of my taxes, increase of gasoline, increase of food, increase of health insurance, utilities, car payment, church donations... I am unable to give as much as I did 4 years ago. I just don't have the money to give. And it appears I am not alone in that boat

http://blogs.barrons.com/penta/2013/02/04/charitable-giving-up-just-1-7/ )))))))))))))[/quote]

Many of these wealthy people never worked a day in their life. They live off the wealth sitting in the bank that one of their relatives earned. I believe that kind of "income" if you want to call it that should be very heavily taxed and people who go to work everyday should pay a much lower tax. Everyone should pay in but why should a lazy rich person get the loopholes when they did nothing to earn that money. The money is all going to the top not because it was earned but because it has been taken over by all sorts of manipulations to have it ending up in the hands of fewer and fewer people. So much for the trickle down theory. It never worked. Yes, I probably am a socialist but I believe in the saying that you can judge a nation by how it treats it's most vulnerable citizens and we are doing a pathetic job of it. Everyone in this country should be paid a living wage so they can have a home, food and medical care as basics. That is not asking too much it is just what I believe is morally right. How much money is too much? I don't know but as long as someone is going without the basic needs in life we as a people should be ashamed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Right, Rocky? Looks like she may take a run at Al Franken's seat. She might have barely kept her seat last election, but if she runs for the senate the whole state will vote and she will lose. Keep your fingers crossed!


You must be talking about Ms. Bachmann. I wish she would call it a day and stay home with her husband. She is a joke that is not too funny. :-(


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just got back from the movies. We saw Olympus Has Fallen.
> It was DH's turn to pick this time. I thought "oh great, another action film, but this one was really good. Of course looking at Gerard Butler is always good. The wait at restautants were to long , so instead of dining out as we usually do, we got Chinese take out.


So you would recommend this? Is this the one Morgan Freeman is in too?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Many of these wealthy people never worked a day in their life. They live off the wealth sitting in the bank that one of their relatives earned. I believe that kind of "income" if you want to call it that should be very heavily taxed and people who go to work everyday should pay a much lower tax. Everyone should pay in but why should a lazy rich person get the loopholes when they did nothing to earn that money. The money is all going to the top not because it was earned but because it has been taken over by all sorts of manipulations to have it ending up in the hands of fewer and fewer people. So much for the trickle down theory. It never worked. Yes, I probably am a socialist but I believe in the saying that you can judge a nation by how it treats it's most vulnerable citizens and we are doing a pathetic job of it. Everyone in this country should be paid a living wage so they can have a home, food and medical care as basics. That is not asking too much it is just what I believe is morally right. How much money is too much? I don't know but as long as someone is going without the basic needs in life we as a people should be ashamed.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Right, Rocky? Looks like she may take a run at Al Franken's seat. She might have barely kept her seat last election, but if she runs for the senate the whole state will vote and she will lose. Keep your fingers crossed!


I wonder, I am skeptical about voters.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Right back at you, Janeway. I am not trying to earn your respect. I just ask for civil behavior. I am sure I have nothing to prove to you. Why do you always think everyone is trying to insult you? Could it be all the insults you hurl out at others are flying back at you now? So sad for you that you just can't be nice to all others. Your world would be a much nicer place. Just saying. I like you Janeway. Just push that chip off your shoulder. I'm sure it's pretty hard to carry around with you having to be on the defensive all the time and carrying that block around too.


My world is already nice so there is not a chip on the shoulder. I'm glad you like me--good, golly, are we going to finally be friends?

Will the sky fall?

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :roll: :-D :-D  ;-) :lol: :roll:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So you would recommend this? Is this the one Morgan Freeman is in too?


Yes it is! The plot was good, as were the characters. It has a great cast.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Oh for goodness' sake, leave off with the digs and sarky remarks. It's always personal with you.


Did anyone ask your opinion? I don't think anyone did so zip the lip!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I wonder, I am skeptical about voters.


There seems to be something very wierd in the 6th district. Where I live, if she comes here, she gets laughed off the stage.
But there are so many litle rural towns between here and Stillwater and some very strange people at that! They fall for the lies and deception every time.
Yes Cheeky, I am speaking of my "favorite little dimwit" Bachmann.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes it is! The plot was good, as were the characters. It has a great cast.


I like Morgan Freeman as an actor. Did you see him in Bucket List? It was on TV not long ago.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway,

Boy, does she sound like Ingried...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> There seems to be something very wierd in the 6th district. Where I live, if she comes here, she gets laughed off the stage.
> But there are so many litle rural towns between here and Stillwater and some very strange people at that! They fall for the lies and deception every time.
> Yes Cheeky, I am speaking of my "favorite little dimwit" Bachmann.


Are you talking about Stillwater, OK?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> 
> Boy, does she sound like Ingried...


Which one?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> 
> Boy, does she sound like Ingried...


Who does?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The one about taking meds. That was cruel of her.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I like Morgan Freeman as an actor. Did you see him in Bucket List? It was on TV not long ago.


I think he is great! Yes I saw Bucket list. It was hilarious! I also liked him as James Patterson's Alex Cross character and definitely my favorite was the Shawshank Redemption. That man can act!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway,

I cannot find it right now. There are too many to sift through. Sorry.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The one about taking meds. That was cruel of her.


Oh, yes, but I considered the source from where it came and ignored it!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Are you talking about Stillwater, OK?


No, Janeway, I was speaking of Stillwater, MN. Isn't it amazing how many Stillwaters and Clearwaters there are all over the country?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Glad you ignored it. You are strong. I would probably be affected.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You know, why drag up old garbage? We have been making a real effort here to get along with each other. Can we just stick to that?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think he is great! Yes I saw Bucket list. It was hilarious! I also liked him as James Patterson's Alex Cross character and definitely my favorite was the Shawshank Redemption. That man can act!


Oh, yes they have the Shawshank Redemption on TV so much that I don't watch it anymore, but it is a good movie.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, Janeway, I was speaking of Stillwater, MN. Isn't it amazing how many Stillwaters and Clearwaters there are all over the country?


Curious what is your Avatar?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Glad you ignored it. You are strong. I would probably be affected.


Thanks as I do pick the battles I'm involved with. Some are just too laughable to respond! It makes them look silly!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

A huge harvest moon over the pines somewhere. My sister in law emailed it to me from Oregon. I like it, but can't say for sure if she took the photo and enhanced it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You are a stronger woman than I am.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

How can you say that the "rich" never worked a day in their lives? Do you know them personally? There are different ways of working. I think this is a very presumptuous statement.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy, go back and read the first word in the statement you just objected to. Cheeky did not say all wealthy people 
don't work.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> My world is already nice so there is not a chip on the shoulder. I'm glad you like me--good, golly, are we going to finally be friends?
> 
> Will the sky fall?
> 
> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :roll: :-D :-D  ;-) :lol: :roll:


No I think we are safe.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm sleepy so nighty, night until tomorrow!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nite Janeway. Sweet Dreams


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm sleepy so nighty, night until tomorrow!


Good night Janeway.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Night Jane. Hugs!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I believe a person should earn a living wage. I also believe they should live on what they earn. No handouts.
> As far as those who have inherited wealth, someone worked for that money. Many of these have invested their money in the stock market or in businesses so it can make more money. If this money is taxed, there will be less invested, less money to create jobs. Only private businesses really create jobs to help the economy. We need more of these kind of people so that there will more jobs for others to make a living wage.
> 
> With all the government programs, I don't think there are that many going without basic needs. If they are, they either choose (mentally ill, drunks, and drug addicts) to live that way or they are unable to seek the help they need.


Yes, all jobs should pay a "living wage" That means a place to live, food and medical care. If it was a living wage no government handouts would be needed. For those not able to support themselves they should be helped out by the rest of us. I believe the vast majority of people just want a job they can go to that will pay enough for a decent living. People don't choose to be mentally ill, alcoholics (which is also an illness) or drug addicts wake up one morning and say that's the life for me! Where do you live that you do not see people in need? Are you so blind to the suffering around you or do you chose to just not see. I guess that would absolve you of any responsibility which would be the easy way out. 
There but for the grace of God go I. Think about it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night ladies.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I believe a person should earn a living wage. I also believe they should live on what they earn. No handouts.
> As far as those who have inherited wealth, someone worked for that money. Many of these have invested their money in the stock market or in businesses so it can make more money. If this money is taxed, there will be less invested, less money to create jobs. Only private businesses really create jobs to help the economy. We need more of these kind of people so that there will more jobs for others to make a living wage.
> 
> With all the government programs, I don't think there are that many going without basic needs. If they are, they either choose (mentally ill, drunks, and drug addicts) to live that way or they are unable to seek the help they need.


This is one of the most outdated perspectives around. If private business really created jobs we would not have the huge unemployment we currently have in this country! I hope you are filthy rich and never need any type of assistance from anyone, private or government. I know that sounds mean, but you sound heartless.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oops. , made a posting error.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Whoa! I was gone for a week, and now I'm in the Land of Oz! Lots of new "stuff" on here. I'll have to catch up. 

I did notice that the morning-after pill now has no age limitations on it, no prescription needed. No physician or parental interference necessary or tolerated. 

For teenagers, this flower-shaped pill will be packaged in an easy-open box in pastel colors. 

AND - even your pretty and precocious pre-teen can purchase this pill. Tell her to look for the package that says, "It's All About ME!" with a picture of a princess in pink sprinkling pixie dust. 

The pill info is real. The packaging is just my idea. Well - it's no outrageous than taking limits off the sale of the drug.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Whoa! I was gone for a week, and now I'm in the Land of Oz! Lots of new "stuff" on here. I'll have to catch up.
> 
> I did notice that the morning-after pill now has no age limitations on it, no prescription needed. No physician or parental interference necessary or tolerated.
> 
> ...


As mothers we don't want our teenagers having sex, At least I didn't want mine to. But I see it this way. If kids can't hold themselves back in those steamy moments in the back seat and forget about protection, then I would rather see them take the Morning after pill then have an abortion somewhere down the line. Abstinence is the best protection, but some kids don't agree. This Plan B pill has been called the abortion pill by some. but it doesn't work that way. It stops the egg from being fertilized and entering the fallopian tubes.I guess they are supposed to take one as soon as possible after unprotected sex, and another one 12 hours later. it has an 89% chance of successfully working
But I do get your drift . Just makes it easier for our little honey's
to play grown up and have sex.
An aspirin between the knees is a good way not to get pregnant too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Freedom of Speech. MYOB



Janeway said:


> Did anyone ask your opinion? I don't think anyone did so zip the lip!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think like Cheeky. I couldn't buy a mansion, regardless of what I'd earned, knowing that others go to sleep hungry.



joeysomma said:


> I believe a person should earn a living wage. I also believe they should live on what they earn. No handouts.
> As far as those who have inherited wealth, someone worked for that money. Many of these have invested their money in the stock market or in businesses so it can make more money. If this money is taxed, there will be less invested, less money to create jobs. Only private businesses really create jobs to help the economy. We need more of these kind of people so that there will more jobs for others to make a living wage.
> 
> With all the government programs, I don't think there are that many going without basic needs. If they are, they either choose (mentally ill, drunks, and drug addicts) to live that way or they are unable to seek the help they need.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And to all a good night.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go scratch....
> Maybe if you managed your money a little better, you could too!


What the heck does that mean? Do not assume that I do not manage my money well, because if you do you will have to put your donkey face on again.

I just think that since you and Cheeky are so concerned with the plight of the down trodden you would donate all your extra money to help out the needy. Don't they have a right to go to the movies and out to dinner too? Or maybe both of you should be serving food at a soup kitchen instead of eating out. Maybe adopt a homeless shelter and take them all out for a movie, since you think it is their right

I too believe that Ronald Reagan was correct, there are the truly needy in our society that deserve our help. It is the moral thing to do, without question. There will always be a segment of our world that are unfortunately in that category, and we must be vigilant, kind and helpful to all of those truly needy people.

I am just saying that before you tell anyone that we must pay more taxes, lead by example. Donate away all your extra hard earned money, because you don't need it to survive. Don't those in need have a right to your money? Or do they only have the right to have the money from people you deem wealthy?

And there still is no answer to the question, what is too wealthy? And what does it matter how a person legally got their money, it is their money and you have no right to it or to tell them how to spend it. I believe that people would be more quietly generous if the were not vilified by the left that always has it's hand out saying gimme gimme gimme more.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As mothers we don't want our teenagers having sex, At least I didn't want mine to. But I see it this way. If kids can't hold themselves back in those steamy moments in the back seat and forget about protection, then I would rather see them take the Morning after pill then have an abortion somewhere down the line. Abstinence is the best protection, but some kids don't agree. This Plan B pill has been called the abortion pill by some. but it doesn't work that way. It stops the egg from being fertilized and entering the fallopian tubes.I guess they are supposed to take one as soon as possible after unprotected sex, and another one 12 hours later. it has an 89% chance of successfully working
> But I do get your drift . Just makes it easier for our little honey's
> to play grown up and have sex.
> An aspirin between the knees is a good way not to get pregnant too.


And stringent parental supervision goes a long way, too. One can prevent or mitigate those "hot steamy" moments without the helicopters.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Ok, "many"... What is the difference? Most rich people work. They are not slackers!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Ok, "many"... What is the difference? Most rich people work. They are not slackers!


Most rich people that I've met work A LOT.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right, Thumper. I am just amazed at the people who criticize people with money. They are sooooo jealous. It is very transparent. Everyone in this country has an equal chance to be rich. And that is what Obama is taking away from us.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At first all I could think is 'there's no hope. We are too different.' Then I saw a common thread. Are we coming at this problem by making judgements on both sides? Opinions please.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> At first all I could think is 'there's no hope. We are too different.' Then I saw a common thread. Are we coming at this problem by making judgements on both sides? Opinions please.


What was that common thread?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, all jobs should pay a "living wage" That means a place to live, food and medical care. If it was a living wage no government handouts would be needed. For those not able to support themselves they should be helped out by the rest of us. I believe the vast majority of people just want a job they can go to that will pay enough for a decent living. People don't choose to be mentally ill, alcoholics (which is also an illness) or drug addicts wake up one morning and say that's the life for me! Where do you live that you do not see people in need? Are you so blind to the suffering around you or do you chose to just not see. I guess that would absolve you of any responsibility which would be the easy way out.
> There but for the grace of God go I. Think about it.


Cheeky you are being far too reasonable and not judgmental enough I don't understand why people on this forum who profess to be good Christians have no charity or understanding in their hearts. I live in a fairly prosperous part of Florida and yet see homeless people all around me. I have a friend who had to go on food stamps and use a food bank after her husband's business went under and then wound up in a mental hospital because of her anorexia and various and sundry mental problems. My daughter who is a social worker, goes out of her way to counsel elderly people who do not know how to "work? the system to get services they are entitled to. And yes, she deals with people who work the system to their advantage. But you don't ump them all together. You hae to help all you can.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Whoa! I was gone for a week, and now I'm in the Land of Oz! Lots of new "stuff" on here. I'll have to catch up.
> 
> I did notice that the morning-after pill now has no age limitations on it, no prescription needed. No physician or parental interference necessary or tolerated.
> 
> ...


Not that this forum is the nicest place to be, but it was a little nicer without you. I believe in the morning after pill for every teenager, little girl, or woman, Especially when they are not taught about sex by their parents or by the school system. Sex is a natural part of life, it is automatic, the hormones are there and the brain is blocked. It is not a matter of if you daughter will have sex, it a matter of when. They should be prepared. The boys should also be taught about the responsibility of having sex and should not be without responsibility. I am not for "sex" for teenagers, I am for their right to get information and treatment if necessary.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And stringent parental supervision goes a long way, too. One can prevent or mitigate those "hot steamy" moments without the helicopters.


Try to be with your teenager 24/7 see how that works. teenagers and sex are very resourceful. They will find a way.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, kids will "find" sex, but we must not loose our morals and values and make the pill easier. The packaging that is described is terrible. Kids need to learn responsibility. We should not act as animals having sex.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judgements are made before addressing the problem.



thumper5316 said:


> What was that common thread?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not that this forum is the nicest place to be, but it was a little nicer without you. I believe in the morning after pill for every teenager, little girl, or woman, Especially when they are not taught about sex by their parents or by the school system. Sex is a natural part of life, it is automatic, the hormones are there and the brain is blocked. It is not a matter of if you daughter will have sex, it a matter of when. They should be prepared. The boys should also be taught about the responsibility of having sex and should not be without responsibility. I am not for "sex" for teenagers, I am for their right to get information and treatment if necessary.


*****************************
Gee, Rocky, I'm kind of surprised that you'd say something like that. That's rather unkind, just because you don't agree with me. I would never say it's better here without you. Would you treat me that way if you actually knew me or were sitting here in my house with me? That's actually one of the nastiest things anyone has ever said to me. My opinion of you is changing a little.

I also believe in sex with responsibility, one of the responsibilities being waiting until you are a grown-up. I certainly believe in information for teenagers, but allowing NO restrictions on the morning-after pill is, in my opinion, extreme to the point of being shocking and almost laughable.

Yes, sex is natural. So is eating and defecating. However, there is a time and a place for everything, even our natural functions. I believe that we are more than animals blundering along, snorting and slurping uncontrollably and scratching our itches regardless of the consequences.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Not that this forum is the nicest place to be, but it was a little nicer without you. I believe in the morning after pill for every teenager, little girl, or woman, Especially when they are not taught about sex by their parents or by the school system. Sex is a natural part of life, it is automatic, the hormones are there and the brain is blocked. It is not a matter of if you daughter will have sex, it a matter of when. They should be prepared. The boys should also be taught about the responsibility of having sex and should not be without responsibility. I am not for "sex" for teenagers, I am for their right to get information and treatment if necessary.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True.



rocky1991 said:


> Try to be with your teenager 24/7 see how that works. teenagers and sex are very resourceful. They will find a way.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bon,
I totally agree with you. I would be more than a little insulted. Sounds like Ingried to me.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> True.


You are underestimating teenagers. There are more than a few who are able to control their sexual urges. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, kids will "find" sex, but we must not loose our morals and values and make the pill easier. The packaging that is described is terrible. Kids need to learn responsibility. We should not act as animals having sex.


That was her idea for packaging. Morals are taught at home, as are values. Apparently someone is not doing their job, or the morning after pill would not be necessary. Actually when you come right down to it, we are animals. We have certain characteristics of animals and procreation is one of them.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You are underestimating teenagers. There are more than a few who are able to control their sexual urges. Nothing wrong with that.


Of course there is nothing wrong with controlling sexual urges, if they are taught about their bodies. I do not feel that JUST SAY NO is the answer. We taught our 3 daughters about their bodies and sex. They are all grown up now, responsible, productive and 2 are parents, the youngest is engaged to be married. We have always kept the lines of communication open and they were able to discuss anything with us. Not patting myself on the back, but I do believe in communication. I also believe that we were very lucky.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

aw9358 wrote:
Oh for goodness' sake, leave off with the digs and sarky remarks. It's always personal with you.


Did anyone ask your opinion? I don't think anyone did so zip the lip!

I refer you to my post above.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Bon,
> I totally agree with you. I would be more than a little insulted. Sounds like Ingried to me.


I appreciate that, Lukelucy. A little nastier than Ingried ever was to me, but still - who knows?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And stringent parental supervision goes a long way, too. One can prevent or mitigate those "hot steamy" moments without the helicopters.


Yes, we can! And some of us did.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, there are thoughtful, non-entitled, self-controlled young people out there. All depends on the parenting...
Yay to them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, kids will "find" sex, but we must not loose our morals and values and make the pill easier. The packaging that is described is terrible. Kids need to learn responsibility. We should not act as animals having sex.


Lukelucy, it's not really packaged that way. I was just trying to show how wrong it is to be selling adult products to kids. I tried to add that at the bottom - maybe it wasn't clear. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks for clearing that up.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That was her idea for packaging. Morals are taught at home, as are values. Apparently someone is not doing their job, or the morning after pill would not be necessary. Actually when you come right down to it, we are animals. We have certain characteristics of animals and procreation is one of them.


***********

The good news is that we are actually more than animals and able to control our behavior.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Unless parents teach their kids (no one here of course) to get what they want and remain uncontrolled, thoughtless animals. I have seen too much of that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Of course there is nothing wrong with controlling sexual urges, if they are taught about their bodies. I do not feel that JUST SAY NO is the answer. We taught our 3 daughters about their bodies and sex. They are all grown up now, responsible, productive and 2 are parents, the youngest is engaged to be married. We have always kept the lines of communication open and they were able to discuss anything with us. Not patting myself on the back, but I do believe in communication. I also believe that we were very lucky.


************
I feel the same way about my three adult children. Now they're parents and soon will face those same issues with their children. It takes a lot of parenting - lots of thought, tact, and for me, prayer. Good children result from lots of different parenting styles. We also taught our children about their bodies - and we taught them that the wisest course was to wait. It wasn't "just say no," it was "just say when I'm ready." After that, it was up to them - and they did a great job!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> .
> An aspirin between the knees is a good way not to get pregnant too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Right - that was pretty much the only proven method when I was growing up. That and the absolute horror of ever telling my parents I was pregnant. Best birth control in the world for me!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Same here!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, there are thoughtful, non-entitled, self-controlled young people out there. All depends on the parenting...
> Yay to them.


Yay to them for sure! They are up against a society that is encouraging them in the opposite direction, and yet they remain true to their values. It can be done - and is rewarding in the end.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Unless parents teach their kids (no one here of course) to get what they want and remain uncontrolled, thoughtless animals. I have seen too much of that.


Yes, and they face the constant pressure of movies, tv, and music that glorify sex without responsibility. I think the pendulum may be swinging back. I sure hope so.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I just think that since you and Cheeky are so concerned with the plight of the down trodden you would donate all your extra money to help out the needy. Don't they have a right to go to the movies and out to dinner too?


In fact folks who have an occasional night on the town are giving the economy a boost. A couple of years ago I heard a top economic adviser tell folks to make a personal commitment to do exactly that--dinner and a movie--at least once a week. When the government shelled out those 500 hundred checks five years back we were instructed to take spend every last penny of them on consumer goods--appliances, new clothes, toys for the kiddies--NOT sock them away in the bank or use the money to whittle down credit cards.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

So the idle rich go hungry?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Try to be with your teenager 24/7 see how that works. teenagers and sex are very resourceful. They will find a way.


I wasn't with any of my boys 24/7. They will _try_ to find ways. However, as the grown-ups, aren't we supposed to be smarter than they are?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Judgements are made before addressing the problem.


Not all problems can be solved. Many of them are self-inflicted and sometimes lessons in life need to be learned from painful experiences.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, there are thoughtful, non-entitled, self-controlled young people out there. All depends on the parenting...
> Yay to them.


Aye there's the rub...teens who lack the maturity to avoid sex and/or protect themselves from its consequences are unlikely to possess the maturity and skills necessary for good parenting.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That was her idea for packaging. Morals are taught at home, as are values. Apparently someone is not doing their job, or the morning after pill would not be necessary. Actually when you come right down to it, we are animals. We have certain characteristics of animals and procreation is one of them.


No, we are not animals. We are humans and there is a huge difference.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

It's interesting that most parents worry more about the physical consequences of teenage romance than they do about the emotional toll. My sister has two boys (15 and 12) and has instituted a strict no-dating-until-you're-16 policy--less out of concerns about teenage pregnancy and more because she wants her kids to focus on their education while they're in high school.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> ***********
> 
> The good news is that we are actually more than animals and able to control our behavior.


Really............murder, unwanted pregnancy, where is the control?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> 2 Thessalonians 3:10
> For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


What is the context of this quote?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's interesting that most parents worry more about the physical consequences of teenage romance than they do about the emotional toll. My sister has two boys (15 and 12) and has instituted a strict no-dating-until-you're-16 policy--less out of concerns about teenage pregnancy and more because she wants her kids to focus on their education while they're in high school.


Wise mom


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I wasn't with any of my boys 24/7. They will _try_ to find ways. However, as the grown-ups, aren't we supposed to be smarter than they are?


Yes we are,,, therefore it our responsibility to teach them about sex, morality and values.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Aye there's the rub...teens who lack the maturity to avoid sex and/or protect themselves from its consequences are unlikely to possess the maturity and skills necessary for good parenting.


And so what do we do if young people who are so immature get pregnant? This is a discussion question I am curious what other people think.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No, we are not animals. We are humans and there is a huge difference.


Not much.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Wise mom


I think so too--let's hope she can make it stick.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> And so what do we do if young people who are so immature get pregnant?


I have no idea--making them get an abortion is of course wrong. But forcing them to continue with the pregnancy is practically a guarantee that Grandma and Grandpa are going to end up raising the new baby themselves, or at least shouldering a huge part of the burden. Give the baby up for adoption? In theory this might be the wisest option--with so many childless couples clamoring for children there are no shortage of good homes available. But I'm not comfortable either with the thought of ripping a baby out of a teenage mother's arms and forcing her to sign it away.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> 2 Thessalonians 3:10
> For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think so too--let's hope she can make it stick.


It is a day to day kind of work/job. I feel really lucky with my daughter. She is 37 and my only gripe is she does not want children. She still calls me for recommendations of what books to read, she shares my social and political belefs and is generally a happy woman.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's interesting that most parents worry more about the physical consequences of teenage romance than they do about the emotional toll. My sister has two boys (15 and 12) and has instituted a strict no-dating-until-you're-16 policy--less out of concerns about teenage pregnancy and more because she wants her kids to focus on their education while they're in high school.


Our boys were required to be in sports from an early age. They rarely dated in the sense that we think of it. It was mostly doing things as a group. They have never voiced that they feel that they missed out on anything.

We talked often about sex, not only the physical aspects of it but also the emotional aspects. We taught them about respect for the other person and that the partner has dreams for their future as do they. That they don't want to be the one to wreak havoc on them.

We were very closely involved in our kids daily lives. We received a lot of flack from other parents. However, the ones that snickered at our 'out-of-date' ways had the kids that ended up in treatment, had teen pregnancies, or dropped out of college or never went and wait tables and still live at home.

Great kids are no accident. It takes hard work, loads of time, and a hard shell. I never really cared if they were mad at me or embarrassed by something I did or said in front of their peers.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I have no idea--making them get an abortion is of course wrong. But forcing them to continue with the pregnancy is practically a guarantee that Grandma and Grandpa are going to end up raising the new baby themselves, or at least shouldering a huge part of the burden. Give the baby up for adoption? In theory this might be the wisest option--with so many childless couples clamoring for children there are no shortage of good homes available. But I'm not comfortable either with the thought of ripping a baby out of a teenage mother's arms and forcing her to sign it away.


I believe in the option to choose an abortion it is a very private and difficult decision, giving up a child is also difficult. Yet I cringe when I encounter really clueless parents. It is the children who suffer.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Our boys were required to be in sports from an early age. They rarely dated in the sense that we think of it. It was mostly doing things as a group. They have never voiced that they feel that they missed out on anything.
> 
> We talked often about sex, not only the physical aspects of it but also the emotional aspects. We taught them about respect for the other person and that the partner has dreams for their future as do they. That they don't want to be the one to wreak havoc on them.
> 
> ...


I agree it is work. Too many parents want to be friends with their children...wrong approach! It is difficult being consistent and following through. We ned to stop, look, and listen to our children.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Really the problem is that children become sexually mature roughly a decade before they're capable of living adult lives and caring for offspring. I believe these days girls get their periods when they're about 12, but they can't expect to be truly independent until they finish middle school (3 years), high school (4 years), and college (hopefully--4 more years). I'm sure it would be both impractical and unethical, but it how nice if pills were available to keep teens' reproductive parts in a state of suspended animation until their brains caught up with their bodies.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Not all problems can be solved. Many of them are self-inflicted and sometimes lessons in life need to be learned from painful experiences.


Address the problem? Which problem? There are so many.

Children - shouldn't be involved in sexual activity in any way. If they are, they are being exploited by someone. Find that person and prosecute.

Teenagers - should learn to control their behavior. They do this when they wait until dinner to eat, when they clean up their rooms, do their homework. Why do adults think kids can't control their sexual urges? Most children have been doing this for hundreds of years. Most still do.

Adults providing drugs so that children can have sex - this is again exploitation. Another possible problem that can result - any parent whose child (say of eleven) is sexually active, hasn't been paying attention. Suppose the child hasn't even matured to the point of being fertile, but the mother, finding out there's been sex, gives the kid the pill. What does that do to a child who hasn't had a period yet? You think no mother is that dumb? Yes, some are - uninformed.

Come on, people. This isn't right. I can't imagine the defense of this decision to allow NO restrictions on this pill. A doctor's signature is not required to GIVE THIS PILL TO A CHILD!!! No doctor!

Parental approval is not necessary. If you have a twelve-year-old who's having sex, you already have a really serious problem. Compound that problem by allowing a child who who has already made one damaging choice to buy herself a drug without any medical or parental advice or knowledge.

The problem isn't pregnancy. The PROBLEM is that people are having sexual relations without being emotionally ready to deal with the consequences. The problem is that some parents give up before even trying - they just throw their hands up and say "kids are going to have sex." Not necessarily. Put some effort into this, and expect more of your children. They are NOT animals; they are human beings capable of self-control and of accomplishing great things. And - if they don't have self-control, they won't accomplish great things - or much of anything. It's WORK, mom and dad.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Really............murder, unwanted pregnancy, where is the control?


********************
The control is shown by the vast majority of people who do NOT murder or have unwanted pregnancies. Why give up so quickly on people?


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

and sometimes good kids who were brought up by good parents find themselves in a situation where an unwanted pregnancy happens.

I am prochoice, I think it is an individual's decision. 

As a parent I would be supportive to the needs and choice of my child. No one is perfect!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> The problem isn't pregnancy. The PROBLEM is that people are having sexual relations without being emotionally ready to deal with the consequences. The problem is that some parents give up before even trying - they just throw their hands up and say "kids are going to have sex." Not necessarily. Put some effort into this, and expect more of your children. They are NOT animals; they are human beings capable of self-control and of accomplishing great things. And - if they don't have self-control, they won't accomplish great things - or much of anything. It's WORK, mom and dad.


Very well said. I tried to convey the same message but you said it much, much better.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> And so what do we do if young people who are so immature get pregnant? This is a discussion question I am curious what other people think.


**************************
Good question.
If they are too immature to get married and raise the child, they can turn to their families to raise the baby - or put the baby up for adoption. Abortion is an option for some, but I believe it's morally wrong. There are a lot of families who can't have children and would love the baby, even some who would allow future contact with the birth parents. I think that choice would allow the parents to show great love for that child. In later years, that would bring them joy even though they would probably always have a place in their hearts for that child.

What do you think, Peacegoddess?
Bonnie


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Why do adults think kids can't control their sexual urges? Most children have been doing this for hundreds of years.


Not really--the illegitimacy rate in the 19th century was about 10%, and of course that figure only covers pregnancies that ended in birth. Since infanticide, crude forms of birth control, and even cruder (and often deadly) forms of abortion were practiced the true number would have been much higher.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> and sometimes good kids who were brought up by good parents find themselves in a situation where an unwanted pregnancy happens.
> 
> I am prochoice, I think it is an individual's decision.
> 
> As a parent I would be supportive to the needs and choice of my child. No one is perfect!


I have three sons. They, too, are individuals. Where does their 'choice' or decision come into the picture?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, all jobs should pay a "living wage" That means a place to live, food and medical care. If it was a living wage no government handouts would be needed. For those not able to support themselves they should be helped out by the rest of us. I believe the vast majority of people just want a job they can go to that will pay enough for a decent living. People don't choose to be mentally ill, alcoholics (which is also an illness) or drug addicts wake up one morning and say that's the life for me! Where do you live that you do not see people in need? Are you so blind to the suffering around you or do you chose to just not see. I guess that would absolve you of any responsibility which would be the easy way out.
> There but for the grace of God go I. Think about it.


:thumbup: :thumbup: You've said what I was trying to say last night but was too tired to say it sensibly. When you say "For those not able to support themselves they should be helped out by the rest of us." what exactly do you mean? Do you advocate having any government programs or do you support helping those in need through local efforts, such as church groups?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not really--the illegitimacy rate in the 19th century was about 10%, and of course that figure only covers pregnancies that ended in birth. Since infanticide, crude forms of birth control, and even cruder (and often deadly) forms of abortion were practiced the true number would have been much higher.


************
Ten percent. The 90% who didn't fall into that category make up a much larger percentage of people not having illegitimate children. And as you said, we don't know the true number.

I think the sexual revolution of the '70s made it seem as if everyone was having sex most of the time with lots of different people they hardly knew. How did we ever sleep? Or go into space, for that matter?

I think the free love idea was less prevalent than we thought and that Madison Avenue did a good job of pushing it. Just think of all the sales that went up - sex toys, birth control pills, whips, chains (half-kidding about the whips and chains - HALF-kidding), pornography, Playboy subscriptions.

I think it was bad for our culture, and we are still suffering the consequences. Our attitudes about the inability of children and teenagers to control themselves is one of those consequences, I think. Although it is probably harder for them given the graphic sex in movies and on tv, explicit lyrics in music, and the use of sex to sell everything on tv from hot and cold "personal lubricant" to cars.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> As a parent I would be supportive to the needs and choice of my child. No one is perfect!


I'm sure you would be supportive, as would most parents. But some unfortunately are not, which is why a few newborn babies end up in trash cans and dumpsters. I know some folks believe the mothers responsible should be put on death row, but imagine the family circumstances of a teen mother who would rather risk her life by laboring unattended in a bathroom or closet than tell her parents.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really the problem is that children become sexually mature roughly a decade before they're capable of living adult lives and caring for offspring. I believe these days girls get their periods when they're about 12, but they can't expect to be truly independent until they finish middle school (3 years), high school (4 years), and college (hopefully--4 more years). I'm sure it would be both impractical and unethical, but it how nice if pills were available to keep teens' reproductive parts in a state of suspended animation until their brains caught up with their bodies.


Wow and some of that biological ability to conceive at such early ages is a result of hormone additives to cattle that becomes the meat eaten. Reason for banning such additives?

There is the birth control compound that is put just under the skin that lasts for 2 or 3 years, but I am wary of such drugs because of possible unforseen affects.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Damemary, I'd buy a mansion if I could, but I'd also make sure I could spend the same amount for those in need. The daily news makes me salivate over the idea of living outside of a city or its suburbs. At the age of 63 I don't think I have time to earn the money needed for that. On the rare occasions I buy a lottery ticket, I hear my ex saying that buying a lottery ticket equals paying the stupidity tax...


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I have three sons. They, too, are individuals. Where does their 'choice' or decision come into the picture?


Maybe part of their choice was not using a condom, not having sexual intercourse, not asking if the young woman was using birth control. Not every sperm deserves a name.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes Thumper they are individuals, I too have a son and a daughter.

I think that when one is making that decision, it is a very difficult one to be in. In many situations it is the young female and her family that are going to have to raise that baby. If the father of that child is going to be involved and take on an active role that too would have to come into play.

I do not have the answer. I am of the opinion though that one should have the choice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure you would be supportive, as would most parents. But some unfortunately are not, which is why a few newborn babies end up in trash cans and dumpsters. I know some folks believe the mothers responsible should be put on death row, but imagine the family circumstances of a teen mother who would rather risk her life by laboring unattended in a bathroom or closet than tell her parents.


It's very sad. And the children of parents like that are more likely to turn to sex, which they perceive as love, for comfort.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It is a day to day kind of work/job. I feel really lucky with my daughter. She is 37 and my only gripe is she does not want children. She still calls me for recommendations of what books to read, she shares my social and political belefs and is generally a happy woman.


You must have some good conversations!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Let's face the fact that if abortion is not legal, and I think Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy, women will continue to get abortions. 
Do we really want to return to the back alleys? This is one of the most interesting conundrums of the rightists view on government intrusion into people's lives. They don't want government regulation, except when it is on issues like abortion and gay marriage.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> And stringent parental supervision goes a long way, too. One can prevent or mitigate those "hot steamy" moments without the helicopters.


As someone who had stringent parental supervision and fell in love at 16 with a 22 year old man, I can tell you that it is possible to be responsible about birth control, abide by all the parental rules and still manage to have a relationship one's parents might disapprove of. Sex, among other things, doesn't have to take place after midnight.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Our boys were required to be in sports from an early age. They rarely dated in the sense that we think of it. It was mostly doing things as a group. They have never voiced that they feel that they missed out on anything.
> 
> We talked often about sex, not only the physical aspects of it but also the emotional aspects. We taught them about respect for the other person and that the partner has dreams for their future as do they. That they don't want to be the one to wreak havoc on them.
> 
> ...


Right - all the way! My son had a bunch of soccer buddies. They played soccer on teams and also in our back yard. The parents got to know one another, and they called us the "mothers' mafia!" If they were all going to the movies, someone would just happen to cruise by and make sure that's where they were. It was a joke that worked - they always felt someone's mom was with them. Now those boys are in their forties and turned out well, and we moms still get a kick out of it.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> You must have some good conversations!


I learned long ago not to ask about grandchildren. I respect her choice and know it is based on her belief about over population and environmental degradation to mother earth. I respect my daughter a great deal.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe in the option to choose an abortion it is a very private and difficult decision, giving up a child is also difficult. Yet I cringe when I encounter really clueless parents. It is the children who suffer.


I think having an abortion might be a lot harderfor a tender teen to handle than giving the baby up for adoption, especially if there could be some contact. I just think that once you have an abortion, it seems to close a door. It would be hard to get over that and guilt can last a long time. With adoption, you are making the sacrifice yourself, not making the baby sacrifice. That's something a person could live with - doing something that was hard for yourself out of love for another. It is so noble that it could really change a person's self-image in a very positive way and become a stepping-stone to better things.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Right - all the way! My son had a bunch of soccer buddies. They played soccer on teams and also in our back yard. The parents got to know one another, and they called us the "mothers' mafia!" If they were all going to the movies, someone would just happen to cruise by and make sure that's where they were. It was a joke that worked - they always felt someone's mom was with them. Now those boys are in their forties and turned out well, and we moms still get a kick out of it.


Good job!  Combating the effects of flowing teen-age hormones is a never-ending task--encouraging sports, keeping close tabs, holding embarrassing but necessary talks on the realities of sex relationships and unintended pregnancies all takes time, patience, and a huge expenditure of energy. Parents willing to undertake this grueling job truly deserve Purple Hearts upon completion of their mission--I'm sure they have some battle wounds to show for their efforts!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I learned long ago not to ask about grandchildren. I respect her choice and know it is based on her belief about over population and environmental degradation to mother earth. I respect my daughter a great deal.


Peacegoddess,
Actually, I didn't mean conversations about grandchildren. I have a daughter who loves books and poetry and writing, and I love talking about those things with her. That was what I meant - that you probably have some great conversations about books and politics and life in general.

I have friends whose children have also decided not to have children of their own. As you said, it's their choice. It's a joy to have children you respect - such a pleasure to see how they think and what they do. Your love and respect for your daughter certainly come through in your posts. I'm sure it's mutual.

Bonnie (bonbf3)


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Cheeky you are being far too reasonable and not judgmental enough I don't understand why people on this forum who profess to be good Christians have no charity or understanding in their hearts. I live in a fairly prosperous part of Florida and yet see homeless people all around me. I have a friend who had to go on food stamps and use a food bank after her husband's business went under and then wound up in a mental hospital because of her anorexia and various and sundry mental problems. My daughter who is a social worker, goes out of her way to counsel elderly people who do not know how to "work? the system to get services they are entitled to. And yes, she deals with people who work the system to their advantage. But you don't ump them all together. You hae to help all you can.


I don't understand people's lack of charity whether they're Christians or not. I don't understand how people can walk down the street and literally not see the homeless begging. Selective blindness or pure selfishness? My father always said you had to give back to the society that nurtured you. If you don't have the money to donate to good causes, you can still make time to do volunteer work. I took what my father said very seriously and now have done some kind of volunteer work for almost 45 years. When it comes to jobs where I actually earned money, I am proudest of the work I did when the disabled rights movement was a tine baby. I'm picky and detail oriented so my clerical skills, of all things, did a lot to further the cause of the first organization in this world run by and for the disabled and is the model for all that came after.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Social Security is solvent for the next 3 decades. It does not add to the national debt. I don't think Obama will go along with Paul Ryan in lessening the benefits that people receive. I doubt that Obama wants this as his legacy.


I read that this morning also!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good job!  Combating the effects of flowing teen-age hormones is a never-ending task--encouraging sports, keeping close tabs, holding embarrassing but necessary talks on the realities of sex relationships and unintended pregnancies all takes time, patience, and a huge expenditure of energy. Parents willing to undertake this grueling job truly deserve Purple Hearts upon completion of their mission--I'm sure they have some battle wounds to show for their efforts!


Don't we all! Let's not even talk about raising daughters !! :roll: :roll: Phew! :shock:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> My father always said you had to give back to the society that nurtured you. If you don't have the money to donate to good causes, you can still make time to do volunteer work. I took what my father said very seriously and now have done some kind of volunteer work for almost 45 years. When it comes to jobs where I actually earned money, I am proudest of the work I did when the disabled rights movement was a tine baby. I'm picky and detail oriented so my clerical skills, of all things, did a lot to further the cause of the first organization in this world run by and for the disabled.


That's a good dad. I had a friend whose family had more money than most of us in the neighborhood. Every Christmas they gave to Toys for Tots or other charities. Even as a kid I thought that was so nice. Our family didn't do that, and as far as I know hers was the only one. It made an impression.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I agree. We never know what circumstances we could find ourselves or our loved ones in.


MOMTO2 said:


> and sometimes good kids who were brought up by good parents find themselves in a situation where an unwanted pregnancy happens.
> 
> I am prochoice, I think it is an individual's decision.
> 
> As a parent I would be supportive to the needs and choice of my child. No one is perfect!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> As someone who had stringent parental supervision and fell in love at 16 with a 22 year old man, I can tell you that it is possible to be responsible about birth control, abide by all the parental rules and still manage to have a relationship one's parents might disapprove of. Sex, among other things, doesn't have to take place after midnight.


True, but frankly the ability to keep such a relationship undercover (no pun intended) and avoid unpleasant consequences ie pregnancy and/or STDs shows a certain amount of maturity. You and your boyfriend probably would have been able to deal with any less-than-welcome byproducts of the relationship. The real problem is teens who indulge in very adult activities but still have the maturity of, well, teens.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> So the idle rich go hungry?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually the Urban Dictionary says
> 
> "Bull feathers" is an interjection used to express disbelief. The concept is similar to "preposterous," which suggests that such an undeniable contradiction exists in the assertion being challenged that it cannot possibly be believed. In this case, the contradiction is clear: there is quite obviously no such thing as a bull with feathers.


Maybe like "bull hockey"?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> and sometimes good kids who were brought up by good parents find themselves in a situation where an unwanted pregnancy happens.
> 
> I am prochoice, I think it is an individual's decision.
> 
> As a parent I would be supportive to the needs and choice of my child. No one is perfect!


I'm pro-life, but I agree with you on everything else. It's good to be reminded that good parents can also find themselves in this situation.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Where are the cookies!??! Come on let's all calm down. Thinks are getting out of hand. Let's all just take a break.


 :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think having an abortion might be a lot harderfor a tender teen to handle than giving the baby up for adoption, especially if there could be some contact. I just think that once you have an abortion, it seems to close a door. It would be hard to get over that and guilt can last a long time. With adoption, you are making the sacrifice yourself, not making the baby sacrifice. That's something a person could live with - doing something hard out of love.


I had an abortion and I do not have guilt or anything "to get over". It is a personal choice that cannot and should not be judged by someone else's feelings. I would never try to talk someone into one choice or the other, just point out the pros and cons of each path.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh lets call the FBI or the CIA should we maybe they can help you find your book and your mouth.


Would someone enlighten me about why the FBI or CIA would be interested in a conversation on a knitting forum? I'm not getting this.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Maybe part of their choice was not using a condom, not having sexual intercourse, not asking if the young woman was using birth control. Not every sperm deserves a name.


And where were the same choices on the part of the female? They NEVER lie, right? They have the same responsibilities and even more. They're the ones with the ovaries and uterus.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I just heard that Kathleen Sebilius has the same opinion I do on this subject - no restrictions on the morning-after pill - and so does Obama! They both think this pill should NOT be given to children under 16 and are not happy with the judge's decision.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Susan, I agree with you.

It is my opinion that one should have the choice. 

It is in the news everyday what happens to children who are not wanted. It is painful. Like I said I do not have the answer.

I get upset though when I see generalizations made about people in general. Not all teen moms are wild, or not raised right etc. some come from very good homes and families. 

Personally I'd rather see the "morning after pill" available to those who want it than see the newspaper headings having another baby pulled out of a dumpster or left in a stairway. 

Not everyone has the support that they need.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Aye there's the rub...teens who lack the maturity to avoid sex and/or protect themselves from its consequences are unlikely to possess the maturity and skills necessary for good parenting.


Personally, I think every couple who wants to have children should get a puppy first. Puppies need at least as much repetition to learn any particular kind of good behavior. If they can train it successfully with out resorting to beating it into obedience, they might be ready for the challenge of raising children.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Would someone enlighten me about why the FBI or CIA would be interested in a conversation on a knitting forum? I'm not getting this.


That was some of the threats thrown out by the libs here in an attempt to get those of us who are not fans of obama to stop being mean to him.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Very well said. I tried to convey the same message but you said it much, much better.


 You're too nice, Thumper!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It's very sad. And the children of parents like that are more likely to turn to sex, which they perceive as love, for comfort.


One of the reasons I'm a huge opponent of daycare. It creates a chasm in the parental/child relationship.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Peacegoddess,
> Actually, I didn't mean conversations about grandchildren. I have a daughter who loves books and poetry and writing, and I love talking about those things with her. That was what I meant - that you probably have some great conversations about books and politics and life in general.
> 
> I have friends whose children have also decided not to have children of their own. As you said, it's their choice. It's a joy to have children you respect - such a pleasure to see how they think and what they do. Your love and respect for your daughter certainly come through in your posts. I'm sure it's mutual.
> ...


I know what you mean. 
she also recommends books to me. It is a joy to have an adult child and see the benefits of our parenting efforts.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That was some of the threats thrown out by the libs here in an attempt to get those of us who are not fans of obama to stop being mean to him.


Well, in truth it was a bit more than "mean" talk. One of the posters lamented that Obama wasn't killed by a bomb when he was in Israel--the comment sent shock waves through the thread.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Let's face the fact that if abortion is not legal, and I think Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy, women will continue to get abortions.
> Do we really want to return to the back alleys? This is one of the most interesting conundrums of the rightists view on government intrusion into people's lives. They don't want government regulation, except when it is on issues like abortion and gay marriage.


Personally, I don't think government should be involved. I don't believe that either fall under the purview of government all and that it is an overreach. Bet that surprises many of you.

However, it distresses me that, as one who was in the women's lib movement and fought for one, the right of personal responsibility, that the young women of today are so irresponsible. They seem to have the attitude that there are no consequences. The reality is that somebody pays.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> One of the reasons I'm a huge opponent of daycare. It creates a chasm in the parental/child relationship.


Does daycare create anymore of a chasm then regular school? I have worked as both a datcare teacher and a highschool teacher and I do not believe I or the school created a chasm. Some people desperately need childcare because they must work outside of their homes. Are their children any less bonded to them than those who stay and do not attend childcare?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Personally, I don't think government should be involved. I don't believe that either fall under the purview of government all and that it is an overreach. Bet that surprises many of you.
> 
> However, it distresses me that, as one who was in the women's lib movement and fought for one, the right of personal responsibility, that the young women of today are so irresponsible. They seem to have the attitude that there are no consequences. The reality is that somebody pays.


I like it when people are logically consistent in their politics.
Are you saying some women have abortions willynilly? I am unsure of what you are saying regarding personal responsibility. Give me clarification please.

(Do you really call it the women's lib movement? )


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Does daycare create anymore of a chasm then regular school? I have worked as both a datcare teacher and a highschool teacher and I do not believe I or the school created a chasm. Some people desperately need childcare because they must work outside of their homes. Are their children any less bonded to them than those who stay and do not attend childcare?


Children don't start school until the age of 5, on the average. There is a big difference in the emotional needs and social maturity of a 6 week old and a 5 year old.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, in truth it was a bit more than "mean" talk. One of the posters lamented that Obama wasn't killed by a bomb when he was in Israel--the comment sent shock waves through the thread.


Oh crap!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I like it when people are logically consistent in their politics.
> Are you saying some women have abortions willynilly? I am unsure of what you are saying regarding personal responsibility. Give me clarification please.
> 
> (Do you really call it the women's lib movement? )


Women's liberation then, if it makes you feel any better. We couldn't own property, had little choice when it came to higher education, and many other things.

Regarding abortion I think that too many young women of today don't give it a second thought. As if its no big deal.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Children don't start school until the age of 5, on the average. There is a big difference in the emotional needs and social maturity of a 6 week old and a 5 year old.


I agree on the issue of emotional needs and it would be ideal if one parent could stay at home for at least the first 2 years, but that is not economically possible in the U S. Other countries such as 
France, Sweden, Norway, and other European countries have subsidized parental leave to encourage parental bonding. OOps we can't have that in the U S it would be government intrusion and expenditure of tax money!!!!!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Women's liberation then, if it makes you feel any better. We couldn't own property, had little choice when it came to higher education, and many other things.
> 
> Regarding abortion I think that too many young women of today don't give it a second thought. As if its no big deal.


I am a long time feminist I am just not used to hearing the term women's lib. There will always be abuse of choice. I knew someone who had had her tubes tied, went to the expense of getting the procedure reversed when she remarried and wanted another child. When she got pregnat and had an amniocentices (sp?) and found out it was a girl she aborted it. I was so sad and angry, but really never said anything because she would never have understood my feelings.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I just heard that Kathleen Sebilius has the same opinion I do on this subject - no restrictions on the morning-after pill - and so does Obama! They both think this pill should NOT be given to children under 16 and are not happy with the judge's decision.


Are we surprised when the head of health and human services are logical and care about our childre? I have some problems with the morning after pill. I wonder at the drugs in itand the after effects to the body.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:



> I agree on the issue of emotional needs and it would be ideal if one parent could stay at home for at least the first 2 years, but that is not economically possible in the U S. Other countries such as
> France, Sweden, Norway, and other European countries have subsidized parental leave to encourage parental bonding. OOps we can't have that in the U S it would be government intrusion and expenditure of tax money!!!!!


Yes, it would be governmental intrusion.

As for the economic feasibility, the young adults of today wouldn't think of giving up things (cell phones, cable, Internet, etc.) in order to facilitate one staying home. What about taking a lesser paying or status job if it affords them the ability to stagger their schedules so that one parent is always home?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> aw9358 wrote:
> Oh for goodness' sake, leave off with the digs and sarky remarks. It's always personal with you.
> 
> Did anyone ask your opinion? I don't think anyone did so zip the lip!
> ...


I have a right to my opinion and you have the right to be offended or get over it. Either way, I'm good!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> 2 Thessalonians 3:10
> For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


A good example how human fallibility failed to get what God said right, and I find it difficult to believe that Jesus would have communicated any such an idea to anyone.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I have a right to my opinion and you have the right to be offended or get over it. Either way, I'm good!


Works both ways, of course. Glad we've got that sorted out.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Works both ways, of course. Glad we've got that sorted out.


Me too!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Cheeky you are being far too reasonable and not judgmental enough I don't understand why people on this forum who profess to be good Christians have no charity or understanding in their hearts. I live in a fairly prosperous part of Florida and yet see homeless people all around me. I have a friend who had to go on food stamps and use a food bank after her husband's business went under and then wound up in a mental hospital because of her anorexia and various and sundry mental problems. My daughter who is a social worker, goes out of her way to counsel elderly people who do not know how to "work? the system to get services they are entitled to. And yes, she deals with people who work the system to their advantage. But you don't ump them all together. You hae to help all you can.


I'm trying my best, Rocky. I guess my parents didn't teach me right like all these god fearing people who know if you are rich you are a real saint and being rich is god's plan for you. They are workers who deserve it and god of course wants all of them to subscribe to this thing called prosperity gospel. This gospel has been given so many names, such as the name it and claim it gospel, the blab it and grab it gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the word of faith movement, the gospel of success, the prosperity gospel, and positive confession theology. The upside is it doesn't matter how you earn it or who you walk on and crush to get it. There is no limits to how much is too much and god absolves you of all your sins at the same time. Amen!
Don't you see it's a win win situation? You have no responsibility to anyone but yourself because god knows if you are poor you deserve nothing and he doesn't want to hear any lame excuses even from the lame. Hallelujah! I am so envious of all those rich Christians, Rocky. I wish one of them would take pity on me any let me come and live with them so I can lounge around at their house and watch my soap operas all day and reality TV at night. Maybe, if I'm real good I could get a big screen TV in my own bedroom and a jacuzzi tub too. Then I could invite all my lazy good for nothing liberal friends over to lay around with me wishing we were one of the annoited ones. Oh no, I guess that was just a dream. Silly me, but I can dream can't I? :roll: :lol:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Have to leave as our church young at heart is having a pitch-in so I'm taking bean soup and a big pan of cornbread cooked in my grandma's oval cast iron pan. Will try to send picture as never have seen another one like it.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Does anyone have any thoughts on the effects of internet pornography especially on boys and young men? Here in the UK there are television advertisements aimed at teenagers about abusive behaviour in relationships. There are reports that teenage girls are increasingly at risk of abuse in relationships. I found this - it's quite short:

http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Cornwall-health-hub-Internet-pornography/story-17807491-detail/story.html#axzz2PnjON3bG


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, kids will "find" sex, but we must not loose our morals and values and make the pill easier. The packaging that is described is terrible. Kids need to learn responsibility. We should not act as animals having sex.


Yes it's so much better to let children have babies who don't know how to raise them and may end up abusing them or beating them to death. That is by far the better way. Or let mom and dad raise them for you. Another great idea. So many single moms and dads running around out there with neglected children. Yes, that's the life especially for those unwanted kids!
No pills! Birth control is a sin. It's very simple.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> So the idle rich go hungry?


Touche!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. There is nothing wrong with controlling your sexual urges. I applaud it, but it's not enough to depend on as far as I'm concerned. What about alcohol? So common that some misguided parents provide the site and entertainment for everyone. I'm just saying there are more temptations out there than ever before. Peer pressure is as strong as ever.



bonbf3 said:


> You are underestimating teenagers. There are more than a few who are able to control their sexual urges. Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Survival of the species is in all animals, including mankind.



rocky1991 said:


> That was her idea for packaging. Morals are taught at home, as are values. Apparently someone is not doing their job, or the morning after pill would not be necessary. Actually when you come right down to it, we are animals. We have certain characteristics of animals and procreation is one of them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Two wrong guesses. Keep trying.



bonbf3 said:


> I appreciate that, Lukelucy. A little nastier than Ingried ever was to me, but still - who knows?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judging from teen pregnancies, not all were as lucky. 24/7 surveillance while working full time is not an easy task.



bonbf3 said:


> Yes, we can! And some of us did.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judgemental.



Lukelucy said:


> Unless parents teach their kids (no one here of course) to get what they want and remain uncontrolled, thoughtless animals. I have seen too much of that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> 2 Thessalonians 3:10
> For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


That's the spirit, let them starve and their kids too. I just love to lay around and listen to my stomach growl. What is that you say? The devil can quote scripture too. 
:thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lots of good sound suggestions. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they don't. Same tactics.



bonbf3 said:


> ************
> I feel the same way about my three adult children. Now they're parents and soon will face those same issues with their children. It takes a lot of parenting - lots of thought, tact, and for me, prayer. Good children result from lots of different parenting styles. We also taught our children about their bodies - and we taught them that the wisest course was to wait. It wasn't "just say no," it was "just say when I'm ready." After that, it was up to them - and they did a great job!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I had an abortion and I do not have guilt or anything "to get over". It is a personal choice that cannot and should not be judged by someone else's feelings. I would never try to talk someone into one choice or the other, just point out the pros and cons of each path.


Not all women who have abortions are as lacking in feeling as you are. I had one, too, in my late 30's, because I felt I wasn't in a good enough situation to raise a child. When I made the decision I knew abortion equals murder. Viability of a fetus is of no importance. What's important is that a life already exists. I knew I would feel guilty, probably for a long time. However, it was the best choice I could make. It took me a long time to forgive myself.

I doubt I'm the only woman who has had the experience I had. Not all of us just waltz into the doctor's office for an abortion and waltz out after the abortion has been completed. I remained pro-choice for a long time but have given that idea up, too. I wouldn't try to talk someone into believing as I do or try to convince them being pro-life is the only way to go. However, I no longer vote for proposed laws that support the pro-choice point of view, and will never do so again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This reminds me of a true story. One day I had just gotten home from a tough day at work. My 10 year old had been watching the afterschool special. "What would you do if I told you I was pregnant?" "Tell you to go tell grandma and grandpa and your dad." Don't know where my answer came from, but it worked. Two kids are married and even waited until after the wedding to get pregnant.



bonbf3 said:


> Right - that was pretty much the only proven method when I was growing up. That and the absolute horror of ever telling my parents I was pregnant. Best birth control in the world for me!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what are they told to do with their millions?



susanmos2000 said:


> In fact folks who have an occasional night on the town are giving the economy a boost. A couple of years ago I heard a top economic adviser tell folks to make a personal commitment to do exactly that--dinner and a movie--at least once a week. When the government shelled out those 500 hundred checks five years back we were instructed to take spend every last penny of them on consumer goods--appliances, new clothes, toys for the kiddies--NOT sock them away in the bank or use the money to whittle down credit cards.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

To several of you, please, let's not start slinging ugly words around or describing the gory details of the kind of "discussion" we got into a couple of days ago. Sometimes it's best to let some things alone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think open minded, factual information should be provided. Personally, I would like to see many more adoptions than teenagers (their parents) raising children in poverty.



peacegoddess said:


> And so what do we do if young people who are so immature get pregnant? This is a discussion question I am curious what other people think.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It's very sad. And the children of parents like that are more likely to turn to sex, which they perceive as love, for comfort.


It is very sad and I think you are probably right.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sometimes you just have to consider the source and be good with it.



aw9358 said:


> Works both ways, of course. Glad we've got that sorted out.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not much.


Animals don't have a spirit. People are made up body , soul and spirit. It is our spirit that is what is made in the image of God. Animals just have a body and a personality. They do not commit sin. They are just animals. We commit sin so we are different.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There is a need for judgement before making comments.



susanmos2000 said:


> Well, in truth it was a bit more than "mean" talk. One of the posters lamented that Obama wasn't killed by a bomb when he was in Israel--the comment sent shock waves through the thread.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I think having an abortion might be a lot harderfor a tender teen to handle than giving the baby up for adoption, especially if there could be some contact. I just think that once you have an abortion, it seems to close a door. It would be hard to get over that and guilt can last a long time. With adoption, you are making the sacrifice yourself, not making the baby sacrifice. That's something a person could live with - doing something that was hard for yourself out of love for another. It is so noble that it could really change a person's self-image in a very positive way and become a stepping-stone to better things.


I don't agree with you on this one. You don't from a bond with a fetus that is aborted. You do from a bond with a baby you give birth to. There is a huge difference. You are not doing the girl a favor you are only hurting her in to many ways to mention and what do the fathers of these fetuses/babies ever suffer. Very little. Until males step up and take responsibility it is almost always the female that pays the price and that is immoral in my belief system.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If it's a matter of having to work, there is no choice. Daycare is a necessity.



peacegoddess said:


> Does daycare create anymore of a chasm then regular school? I have worked as both a datcare teacher and a highschool teacher and I do not believe I or the school created a chasm. Some people desperately need childcare because they must work outside of their homes. Are their children any less bonded to them than those who stay and do not attend childcare?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Animals don't have a spirit. People are made up body , soul and spirit. It is our spirit that is what is made in the image of God. Animals just have a body and a personality. They do not commit sin. They are just animals. We commit sin so we are different.


Sorry, CB, but my pets had souls and if they don't greet me at the Pearly Gates I'm going to give God a lecture that won't stop until my pets do show up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They still have to eat, wear appropriate clothing. It does make you wonder why people have children before addressing these issues, but it's quite common. No birth control?



thumper5316 said:


> Children don't start school until the age of 5, on the average. There is a big difference in the emotional needs and social maturity of a 6 week old and a 5 year old.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I have three sons. They, too, are individuals. Where does their 'choice' or decision come into the picture?


Good point. I have one son, two daughters. Both families should be involved, I think.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Women's liberation then, if it makes you feel any better. We couldn't own property, had little choice when it came to higher education, and many other things.
> 
> Regarding abortion I think that too many young women of today don't give it a second thought. As if its no big deal.


 :roll: :roll:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Wow and some of that biological ability to conceive at such early ages is a result of hormone additives to cattle that becomes the meat eaten. Reason for banning such additives?
> 
> There is the birth control compound that is put just under the skin that lasts for 2 or 3 years, but I am wary of such drugs because of possible unforseen affects.


I like banning estrogens, etc. from animals' food.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Damemary, I'd buy a mansion if I could, but I'd also make sure I could spend the same amount for those in need. The daily news makes me salivate over the idea of living outside of a city or its suburbs. At the age of 63 I don't think I have time to earn the money needed for that. On the rare occasions I buy a lottery ticket, I hear my ex saying that buying a lottery ticket equals paying the stupidity tax...


It does .................. unless you win.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or bull puckey.



GWPlver said:


> Maybe like "bull hockey"?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Let's face the fact that if abortion is not legal, and I think Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy, women will continue to get abortions.
> Do we really want to return to the back alleys? This is one of the most interesting conundrums of the rightists view on government intrusion into people's lives. They don't want government regulation, except when it is on issues like abortion and gay marriage.


I want government intervention on crimes like murder and rape. I think abortion is murder, can't think of another name that fits as well. Since I think it's murder, I think it should be illegal. I think back-alley abortions are terrible, and I also think that legal abortions in a hospital are terrible. One is dangerous to the mothers; both are deadly to the babies.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Let's face the fact that if abortion is not legal, and I think Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy, women will continue to get abortions.
> Do we really want to return to the back alleys? This is one of the most interesting conundrums of the rightists view on government intrusion into people's lives. They don't want government regulation, except when it is on issues like abortion and gay marriage.


The basic problem, in my view, is that women want to have abortions. Back alley - bad. Hospital - also bad. Abortion clinic - still bad. Callifornia wants to pass a law that abortions do not have to be performed by a medical doctor. How do you feel about that? To me, that's one step away from the back alley again.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it's so much better to let children have babies who don't know how to raise them and may end up abusing them or beating them to death. That is by far the better way. Or let mom and dad raise them for you. Another great idea. So many single moms and dads running around out there with neglected children. Yes, that's the life especially for those unwanted kids!
> No pills! Birth control is a sin. It's very simple.


The statistics are somewhat surprising...
For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage

Nicole Bengiveno/The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 
By JASON DePARLE and SABRINA TAVERNISE
LORAIN, Ohio  It used to be called illegitimacy. Now it is the new normal. After steadily rising for five decades, the share of children born to unmarried women has crossed a threshold: more than half of births to American women under 30 occur outside marriage.

Once largely limited to poor women and minorities, motherhood without marriage has settled deeply into middle America. The fastest growth in the last two decades has occurred among white women in their 20s who have some college education but no four-year degree, according to Child Trends, a Washington research group that analyzed government data. 
Among mothers of all ages, a majority  59 percent in 2009  are married when they have children. But the surge of births outside marriage among younger women  nearly two-thirds of children in the United States are born to mothers under 30  is both a symbol of the transforming family and a hint of coming generational change. 
One group still largely resists the trend: college graduates, who overwhelmingly marry before having children. That is turning family structure into a new class divide, with the economic and social rewards of marriage increasingly reserved for people with the most education. 
Marriage has become a luxury good, said Frank Furstenberg, a sociologist at the University of Pennsylvania. 
The shift is affecting childrens lives. Researchers have consistently found that children born outside marriage face elevated risks of falling into poverty, failing in school or suffering emotional and behavioral problems. 
read the rest of the article here:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it's so much better to let children have babies who don't know how to raise them and may end up abusing them or beating them to death. That is by far the better way. Or let mom and dad raise them for you. Another great idea. So many single moms and dads running around out there with neglected children. Yes, that's the life especially for those unwanted kids!
> No pills! Birth control is a sin. It's very simple.


I haven't noticed anyone here saying birth control is a sin. That being said, pills are not the only method for preventing unwanted pregnancies or haven't you heard? With the multitude of choices for prevention today why are there so many unplanned/unwanted pregnancies? Why _are_ there so many single moms and dads running around out there neglecting their children?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Let's face the fact that if abortion is not legal, and I think Roe v. Wade is in jeopardy, women will continue to get abortions.
> Do we really want to return to the back alleys? This is one of the most interesting conundrums of the rightists view on government intrusion into people's lives. They don't want government regulation, except when it is on issues like abortion and gay marriage.


This is the same argument as providing kids with the morning-after pill. We throw up our hands and say kids will have sex. We throw up our hands and say women will get abortions. Not necessarily. A LOT of kids don't have sex. A LOT of women don't get abortions. It's not a hopeless situation. We don't have to close our eyes, cross our fingers, and hope for the best. We can teach our children to use their self-control to wait until they are ready for the responsibility of sex. We can teach women to take responsibility for their actions instead of paying someone to kill their babies. Sorry to say it, but that's what it is. Why are we just giving up? Both these surrenders hurt our children. Let's teach them to do the right thing, to make the wise choice, to meet their responsibilities no matter how difficult.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh, please!


damemary said:


> Judgemental.


Lukelucy wrote:
Unless parents teach their kids (no one here of course) to get what they want and remain uncontrolled, thoughtless animals. I have seen too much of that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sorry, CB, but my pets had souls and if they don't greet me at the Pearly Gates I'm going to give God a lecture that won't stop until my pets do show up.


I'm with you. I think all living things have spirits. My pets are a lot kinder than many humans I have encountered.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's the spirit, let them starve and their kids too. I just love to lay around and listen to my stomach growl. What is that you say? The devil can quote scripture too.
> :thumbup:


So, they're have the energy to engage in sex but can't get off their butts to do something? I don't care if they have to pick up trash in the park. If they want something they have to do something. And it just might keep them out of the sack.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> That was her idea for packaging. Morals are taught at home, as are values. Apparently someone is not doing their job, or the morning after pill would not be necessary. Actually when you come right down to it, we are animals. We have certain characteristics of animals and procreation is one of them.


Agreed that morals and values are/should be taught at home. You are ignoring peer pressure though. This pressure can be strong enough that whatever morals were learned can be thrown out the window in a split second. They are teenagers after all.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think open minded, factual information should be provided. Personally, I would like to see many more adoptions than teenagers (their parents) raising children in poverty.


I agree with you 100%.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I'm with you. I think all living things have spirits. My pets are a lot kinder than many humans I have encountered.


Boy, is that ever true. My mother and I have nicknamed my two cats Velcro 1 and Velcro 2 because they try to stick to me like Velcro... Lucky me, right now they're just lumping next to me and snoring.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Address the problem? Which problem? There are so many.
> 
> Children - shouldn't be involved in sexual activity in any way. If they are, they are being exploited by someone. Find that person and prosecute.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: The problem in these cases is that mom and dad didn't want to do the WORK of raising the child. It's the child that suffers in the end.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sorry, CB, but my pets had souls and if they don't greet me at the Pearly Gates I'm going to give God a lecture that won't stop until my pets do show up.


I know I don't like it either SS . But I don't think when we get to Heaven we will need the love of a pet.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I haven't noticed anyone here saying birth control is a sin. That being said, pills are not the only method for preventing unwanted pregnancies or haven't you heard? With the multitude of choices for prevention today why are there so many unplanned/unwanted pregnancies? Why _are_ there so many single moms and dads running around out there neglecting their children?


Thumper the Catholic church teaches that birth control is a sin. Many think abortion is too. Yes, so why all the unwanted pregnancies is my question too. I personally believe parents show "love" to their children today by giving them material items and not really giving of themselves which is loving and teaching love by their actions. I think too many kids think the closeness of sex equals love. They don't know there can be a big difference between a biological urge and really caring for another person. I have seen teenage girls who also believe having a baby gives them someone to love them and then when the reality hits them that they are taking on this huge responsibility that changes their life forever and it is not at all what they hoped for they become very disillusioned. We need to get back to loving our children and stop teaching them that material possessions are what is important in life and what makes you happy and parents must lead by example.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And stringent parental supervision goes a long way, too. One can prevent or mitigate those "hot steamy" moments without the helicopters.


Yes, you could be with them 24/7.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Just die???


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky, I agree with you. My daughter and son (now 22 and 18) used to tell me about the computers, cars etc that their friends were getting from their parents. However, they both recognised that they were very well cared for by us and knew why they couldn't have these things. My daughter now says, "Well, at least we weren't spoilt". She does see this as a good thing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What the heck does that mean? Do not assume that I do not manage my money well, because if you do you will have to put your donkey face on again.
> 
> I just think that since you and Cheeky are so concerned with the plight of the down trodden you would donate all your extra money to help out the needy. Don't they have a right to go to the movies and out to dinner too? Or maybe both of you should be serving food at a soup kitchen instead of eating out. Maybe adopt a homeless shelter and take them all out for a movie, since you think it is their right
> I too believe that Ronald Reagan was correct, there are the truly needy in our society that deserve our help. It is the moral thing to do, without question. There will always be a segment of our world that are unfortunately in that category, and we must be vigilant, kind and helpful to all of those truly needy people.
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know I don't like it either SS . But I don't think when we get to Heaven we will need the love of a pet.


Maybe not, but they'll still need our love.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What the heck does that mean? Do not assume that I do not manage my money well, because if you do you will have to put your donkey face on again.
> 
> I just think that since you and Cheeky are so concerned with the plight of the down trodden you would donate all your extra money to help out the needy. Don't they have a right to go to the movies and out to dinner too? Or maybe both of you should be serving food at a soup kitchen instead of eating out. Maybe adopt a homeless shelter and take them all out for a movie, since you think it is their right
> 
> ...


Once again you are telling people how they should live. Not your place.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: The problem in these cases is that mom and dad didn't want to do the WORK of raising the child. It's the child that suffers in the end.


I so agree. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> ********************
> The control is shown by the vast majority of people who do NOT murder or have unwanted pregnancies. Why give up so quickly on people?


Certainly the majority do not commit murder or get pregnant. You can not force parents to do their job of parenting. So what do you do with the children,, teens who do have sex? They will have sex, make no mistake about that. Most of these kids are not bad, just not emotionally mature enough to make good decisions. If the parents are not teaching them, who should? I believe in sex education in school. Teach the children how to avoid pregnancy or diseases that are with you for life, even death. Saying that parents should do their job just does no make them do their job.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe not, but they'll still need our love.


Did I say that I don't love my 5 dogs? Stop spinning you make me dizzy.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow Bratty, it took you 8 hours to find my response.

I just got home after an 8 hour drive, went to see my parents that are need a a monthly fulfillment of a honey do list.

I listened to the radio on the way home, and was laughing so hard that I almost went off the road. You should have heard Ed Schultz blast Obama about his budget. He about had a stroke on the air. Ranting on and on about how he has deceived and lied to the people that put him into office. Why he did not propose this budget before the election. How he is betraying the middle class and killing the seniors of this country. It made for a very interesting drive home


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I have three sons. They, too, are individuals. Where does their 'choice' or decision come into the picture?


Since they are not the ones who are carrying the child I do not think it's their decision. I believe in choice for the mother.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow Bratty, it took you 8 hours to find my response.
> 
> I just got home after an 8 hour drive, went to see my parents that are need a a monthly fulfillment of a honey do list.
> 
> I listened to the radio on the way home, and was laughing so hard that I almost went off the road. You should have heard Ed Schultz blast Obama about his budget. He about had a stroke on the air. Ranting on and on about how he has deceived and lied to the people that put him into office. Why he did not propose this budget before the election. How he is betraying the middle class and killing the seniors of this country. It made for a very interesting drive home


You're going to like my response for a change.
I like that you go to your parents and help them do things they can't do themselves. Too many older people don't have children that care about them. 
Seniors are not treated all that well these days.
I didn't hear Ed today, but I am very upset with Obama's proposal to change SS. I am busy with my email writing campaign.
See? I don't fall down and worship Obama when I think he's wrong.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You're going to like my response for a change.
> I like that you go to your parents and help them do things they can't do themselves. Too many older people don't have children that care about them.
> Seniors are not treated all that well these days.
> I didn't hear Ed today, but I am very upset with Obama's proposal to change SS. I am busy with my email writing campaign.
> See? I don't fall down and worship Obama when I think he's wrong.


 :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sorry, CB, but my pets had souls and if they don't greet me at the Pearly Gates I'm going to give God a lecture that won't stop until my pets do show up.


Who really knows what Heaven is like? I've always been intrigued by the Muslim version of it (and any Muslims out there are free to correct me if what I've heard is wrong)--kind of like Pleasure Island in Pinocchio, where people can eat, drink, and make merry 24 hours a day with no inhibitions and no negative consequences whatsoever. Frankly I doubt that's right, but it's an interesting idea.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Thank you

It was a repeat of Friday's show, but when in a car for 8 hrs who cares.

My parents are in their 80's and are still in their home and I am trying to keep it that way. I try to drive there every 6 weeks or so to help them out. This time we tossed papers that dad had kept since the 1950's. Next time, on to power wash the back deck, and get the porch ready.

I am honored to help them. My turn to help them


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow Bratty, it took you 8 hours to find my response.
> 
> I just got home after an 8 hour drive, went to see my parents that are need a a monthly fulfillment of a honey do list.
> 
> I listened to the radio on the way home, and was laughing so hard that I almost went off the road. You should have heard Ed Schultz blast Obama about his budget. He about had a stroke on the air. Ranting on and on about how he has deceived and lied to the people that put him into office. Why he did not propose this budget before the election. How he is betraying the middle class and killing the seniors of this country. It made for a very interesting drive home


I don't live on this site Off. I have other things to do and people to see. Responding to your snide post was not on the top of my list. I can't speak for Ed Shultz or any other talking head. It's just their opinion afterall. Personally I am not at all happy that Obama is thinking of toying with medicare or SS.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Thank you
> 
> It was a repeat of Friday's show, but when in a car for 8 hrs who cares.
> 
> ...


My mother died when I was 33 yrs old and my dad died when I was just 22. To those of you who still have parents around, appreciate every minute you still have them! My oldest sister is now 87 and she's totally with it mentally. I always say I want to be like her when I grow up. She's coming to visit around May 1.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Who really knows what Heaven is like? I've always been intrigued by the Muslim version of it (and any Muslims out there are free to correct me if what I've heard is wrong)--kind of like Pleasure Island in Pinocchio, where people can eat, drink, and make merry 24 hours a day with no inhibitions and no negative consequences whatsoever. Frankly I doubt that's right, but it's an interesting idea.


John . He was carried away to Heaven chapter 21:10-27. Read it if you want. I am just telling you who knows what Heaven is like. Left out Revelation 21.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, you could be with them 24/7.


Never said that. Are they spending 24/7 with the people they hook-up with?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Once again you are telling people how they should live. Not your place.


So, it's ok for you to be able to judge how people should live and we have no say because we view things differently than you do?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Animals don't have a spirit. People are made up body , soul and spirit. It is our spirit that is what is made in the image of God. Animals just have a body and a personality. They do not commit sin. They are just animals. We commit sin so we are different.


If you look at sex from a more scientific point of view, animals have sex for procreation, for the most part. I understand that dolphins can do it for fun Just look at us humans: G-d, if you like, gave us sex for procreation, as well as for enjoyment. Why were given the pleasurable aspect? The hormones, the physiology the emotional gratification. It's kind of hard to turn down, especially when you are young. I suppose I don't consider sex as a sin.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Yes, it would be governmental intrusion.
> 
> As for the economic feasibility, the young adults of today wouldn't think of giving up things (cell phones, cable, Internet, etc.) in order to facilitate one staying home. What about taking a lesser paying or status job if it affords them the ability to stagger their schedules so that one parent is always home?


What if one is a single parent? What if the only way a family can afford basic necessities is if they have more than one income in the family? Childcare centers (especially good ones) can be a positive experience for children.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Never said that. Are they spending 24/7 with the people they hook-up with?


I can only speak for myself and my own kids. No they didn't "hook up" for 24/7. My kids and I had a very open communication. If they were thinking of having sex they talked to me about it. I in turn did my best to talk them out of it. I couldn't be with them 24/7 because I worked and they were in school. But I always stressed that they think before they do.
No pregnant teen or baby daddy in my family.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I want government intervention on crimes like murder and rape. I think abortion is murder, can't think of another name that fits as well. Since I think it's murder, I think it should be illegal. I think back-alley abortions are terrible, and I also think that legal abortions in a hospital are terrible. One is dangerous to the mothers; both are deadly to the babies.


What would you do then Force all women have babies? What about rape, incest, genetic disorders?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> If you look at sex from a more scientific point of view, animals have sex for procreation, for the most part. I understand that dolphins can do it for fun Just look at us humans: G-d, if you like, gave us sex for procreation, as well as for enjoyment. Why were given the pleasurable aspect? The hormones, the physiology the emotional gratification. It's kind of hard to turn down, especially when you are young. I suppose I don't consider sex as a sin.


Did I say anything about sex being a sin? I didn't say sex was not a pleasure. It is ordained by God. What do you mean I am saying. lol


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't live on this site Off. I have other things to do and people to see. Responding to your snide post was not on the top of my list. I can't speak for Ed Shultz or any other talking head. It's just their opinion afterall. Personally I am not at all happy that Obama is thinking of toying with medicare or SS.


Well, but you did respond, and your response was really snide. Oh by the way, I have taken in people. My donkey comment was a polite way of referring to you constantly assuming things,(when you assume you make an ass.........) but I guess I should try not to be ladylike and not stoop to crude language


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Since they are not the ones who are carrying the child I do not think it's their decision. I believe in choice for the mother.


Do you think a man should support a baby after it is born?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Do you think a man should support a baby after it is born?


Not necessarily.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Well, but you did respond, and your response was really snide. Oh by the way, I have taken in people. My donkey comment was a polite way of referring to you constantly assuming things,(when you assume you make an ass.........) but I guess I should try not to be ladylike and not stoop to crude language


You are already there. You can keep digging, but I will no longer respond to anything you write.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> True, but frankly the ability to keep such a relationship undercover (no pun intended) and avoid unpleasant consequences ie pregnancy and/or STDs shows a certain amount of maturity. You and your boyfriend probably would have been able to deal with any less-than-welcome byproducts of the relationship. The real problem is teens who indulge in very adult activities but still have the maturity of, well, teens.


Byproduct? I don't even want to know.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I had an abortion and I do not have guilt or anything "to get over". It is a personal choice that cannot and should not be judged by someone else's feelings. I would never try to talk someone into one choice or the other, just point out the pros and cons of each path.


Well, I don't speak from experience, and I don't presume to judge those who do. We're all just trying to make it. I have an opinion about the act of abortion, but it's not my place to judge those who have been in a difficult situation.

I do remember reading about an abortion doctor who stopped performing them because he said the most common emotion he saw in women after having an abortion was relief. I guess after a while he felt bad about all those babies and stopped. I guess it's different if you're actually performing the abortions day after day. It could get to you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I had an abortion and I do not have guilt or anything "to get over". It is a personal choice that cannot and should not be judged by someone else's feelings. I would never try to talk someone into one choice or the other, just point out the pros and cons of each path.


Not everyone feels that way. There are people who do feel guilt and sorrow, and that's not a good way to feel.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, I don't speak from experience, and I don't presume to judge those who do. We're all just trying to make it. I have an opinion about the act of abortion, but it's not my place to judge those who have been in a difficult situation.


Thank you.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What if one is a single parent? What if the only way a family can afford basic necessities is if they have more than one income in the family? Childcare centers (especially good ones) can be a positive experience for children.


Single parenthood is by choice.

As to centers (which is an appropriate name) given a choice between staying home with mommy or daddy or going to a center can you honestly say that a young child would choose a center? I don't think so.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Not everyone feels that way. There are people who do feel guilt and sorrow, and that's not a good way to feel.


I feel deeply for people who have gone through an abortion and feel guilt and sorrow. I hope that they can gain peace at some time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> John . He was carried away to Heaven chapter 21:10-27. Read it if you want. I am just telling you who knows what Heaven is like. Left out Revelation 21.


I'll look it up. Thanks


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > What the heck does that mean? Do not assume that I do not manage my money well, because if you do you will have to put your donkey face on again.
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Children don't start school until the age of 5, on the average. There is a big difference in the emotional needs and social maturity of a 6 week old and a 5 year old.


That's very true.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I feel deeply for people who have gone through an abortion and feel guilt and sorrow. I hope that they can gain peace at some time.


Me too. Have seen my sister in law's heartache for 25 years . My heart goes out to her. She feels very guilty and hasn't forgiven herself.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'll look it up. Thanks


 :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Single parenthood is by choice.
> 
> As to centers (which is an appropriate name) given a choice between staying home with mommy or daddy or going to a center can you honestly say that a young child would choose a center? I don't think so.


This ties in to another question. I must ask if there's a choice between having lousy parents and dying before you take a breath, which would most people choose?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Single parenthood is by choice.
> 
> As to centers (which is an appropriate name) given a choice between staying home with mommy or daddy or going to a center can you honestly say that a young child would choose a center? I don't think so.


Not in every instance. There is divorce and not all women should have to remain in a bad marriage, then there is widowhood, desertion by husband.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Single parenthood is by choice.


Hmm, I don't know of any law that prevents a man from filing for divorce--kids or no kids--if that is what he chooses to do.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Single parenthood is by choice.
> 
> As to centers (which is an appropriate name) given a choice between staying home with mommy or daddy or going to a center can you honestly say that a young child would choose a center? I don't think so.


Thumper single parenthood is not always by choice. What about people who have a spouse that leaves them or dies. My husband's Dad died when he was 5 and his sister was 2. That parent has to go out and work to support their kids. They have to have childcare too. I think for many kids childcare is a good thing especially if they don't have other siblings at home. The interaction with other kids is good for them. It isn't just people having babies outside of marriage who find themselves alone.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Byproduct? I don't even want to know.


Well, I put it crudely, but you know what I mean.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too. Have seen my sister in law's heartache for 25 years . My heart goes out to her. She feels very guilty and hasn't forgiven herself.


When there was someone I really had to forgive, it occurred to me that forgiveness isn't something you do once and it's over. It seems you have to forgive again and again because it's quiet for a while and then stabs you in the stomach all over again without warning. I think it's that way when you're trying to forgive yourself, too. Probably even harder. She's grieving. Sad.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Susan, I agree with you.
> 
> It is my opinion that one should have the choice.
> 
> ...


That's true - its very sad to hear about unwanted children. But - if you asked them if they'd rather be dead, I think most would choose life. They need to be rescued from their circumstances. It's terrible to hear of a baby thrown in a dumpster, but an abortion is the same solution - just done earlier. Where there's life, there's hope.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bonnie she has a son that is 22. She always wanted a girl and couldn't conceive again. She went to Russia to get her girl. Elana is 16 but my sil still can't get over the abortion. She is still griving for her lost baby. You are right it is hardest to forgive yourself.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Women's liberation then, if it makes you feel any better. We couldn't own property, had little choice when it came to higher education, and many other things.
> 
> Regarding abortion I think that too many young women of today don't give it a second thought. As if its no big deal.


I've heard that. I mentioned on another post an abortion doctor who said he stopped because the most common emotion after an abortion was relief. Maybe it's different now. I hear of women grieving as they leave the abortion clinics. Rather than having an abortion and continuing on her present path, maybe the more mature response is to keep the baby and be a mother.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> The statistics are somewhat surprising...
> For Women Under 30, Most Births Occur Outside Marriage
> 
> Nicole Bengiveno/The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/us/for-women-under-30-most-births-occur-outside-marriage.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
> ...


Cheeky Blighter,

There are many other options. There are pregnancy centers that will help with all aspects of pregnancy and childbirth, there are churches and other organizations that will help with parenting, there are mental health facilities that will help overwhelmed parents, and there are adoption agencies with wonderful people begging to be parents.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, I put it crudely, but you know what I mean.


I do.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Wow Bratty, it took you 8 hours to find my response.
> 
> I just got home after an 8 hour drive, went to see my parents that are need a a monthly fulfillment of a honey do list.
> 
> I listened to the radio on the way home, and was laughing so hard that I almost went off the road. You should have heard Ed Schultz blast Obama about his budget. He about had a stroke on the air. Ranting on and on about how he has deceived and lied to the people that put him into office. Why he did not propose this budget before the election. How he is betraying the middle class and killing the seniors of this country. It made for a very interesting drive home


I, too, am hearing this ranting from Democrats. It is really quite amusing. They are so appalled that Obama actually lied to them and are coming unglued. Of course, Obama's budget will go nowhere, they need not worry. Didn't the Democrats chant that about the Republicans, not caring for the middle class and throwing grandma off a cliff during the last election?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper single parenthood is not always by choice. What about people who have a spouse that leaves them or dies. My husband's Dad died when he was 5 and his sister was 2. That parent has to go out and work to support their kids. They have to have childcare too. I think for many kids childcare is a good thing especially if they don't have other siblings at home. The interaction with other kids is good for them. It isn't just people having babies outside of marriage who find themselves alone.


The key is to make the best of the situation you have. If your child is in daycare, be happy that he/she is safe and having fun with other kids. Then spend as much time as possible with your child when you're home together. Read, snuggle, talk. Nothing is perfect - we can only do our best.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bonnie she has a son that is 22. She always wanted a girl and couldn't conceive again. She went to Russia to get her girl. Elana is 16 but my sil still can't get over the abortion. She is still griving for her lost baby. You are right it is hardest to forgive yourself.


I'm very sorry she's going through that. Good she has you - you have a lot of compassion.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, I don't speak from experience, and I don't presume to judge those who do. We're all just trying to make it. I have an opinion about the act of abortion, but it's not my place to judge those who have been in a difficult situation.
> 
> I do remember reading about an abortion doctor who stopped performing them because he said the most common emotion he saw in women after having an abortion was relief. I guess after a while he felt bad about all those babies and stopped. I guess it's different if you're actually performing the abortions day after day. It could get to you.


I would think a feeling of relief would be the most common emotion a doctor would see. I don't believe most women use abortion as birth control but as a last resort. I have never met anyone who said "oh boy today I am going to have an abortion!" I was a young woman when you could only get a legal abortion in CA or NY and if you couldn't get the money together you risked your life trying to abort yourself or have someone do it for you in a nasty back alley. That is desparation and yes a big sigh of relief would be what you would first feel as this huge burden had been lifted off your shoulders. I think there is also a sense of loss and guilt that has to be dealt with later. I see abortion as the lesser of two evils and only a woman and her god need to be involved. Not the U.S. government.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I haven't noticed anyone here saying birth control is a sin. That being said, pills are not the only method for preventing unwanted pregnancies or haven't you heard? With the multitude of choices for prevention today why are there so many unplanned/unwanted pregnancies? Why _are_ there so many single moms and dads running around out there neglecting their children?


Good question. Irresponsibility? Selfishness? Detachment?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm very sorry she's going through that. Good she has you - you have a lot of compassion.


Bonnie I have been no comfort for her. I have tried to help her but she hasn't reponded to anyone's help. She is bitter because it was mainly my fil that forced her to have the abortion. She was 22 and was devoiced at the time. He was afraid it was her ex husbands. He later said he shouldn't have made her do it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, I don't know of any law that prevents a man from filing for divorce--kids or no kids--if that is what he chooses to do.


You and peacegoddess' response is not what I would define as single motherhood. I understand that women need not stay in abusive marriages anymore than a man need stay in an abusive marriage. When the marriage ends they are divorced. That is not single motherhood. They are a divorced mother.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are already there. You can keep digging, but I will no longer respond to anything you write.


Thank you Baby Jesus

By the by, unless I am mistaken, I don't think the phrase 'scratch yourself' is very lady like or polite.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Not sure what this conversation is about, but the fangs apear to be out.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I haven't noticed anyone here saying birth control is a sin. That being said, pills are not the only method for preventing unwanted pregnancies or haven't you heard? With the multitude of choices for prevention today why are there so many unplanned/unwanted pregnancies? Why _are_ there so many single moms and dads running around out there neglecting their children?


We learned about 30-40 years ago that the birth control pill would allow us to "have it all." Children ONLY when we wanted them. Make room for my career, baby!!

Then - we got really p.o.'d when we had an unplanned pregnancy. THAT wasn't supposed to happen.

But wait - along came another brilliant solution. Abortion. Now - no pregnancy, and if there's a slip-up, get rid of it in an afternoon. No problem! You can have your career, you can have your fun - nonstop - no consequences. People expect it, even demand it.

Then when they decide it might be fun to have a cute little baby, they do. But damn, it's not all fun - there's poop and spit-up, there are dirty clothes and sleepless nights, there's whining, there are tantrums.

Too hard to deal with - thus - neglect.

I had first graders who couldn't speak in a complete sentence because no adult ever talked to them except in two or three words - Eat! Go to bed! Shut up!

Parenting takes time, commitment, and sacrifice. And right now, in this world, sacrifice for any reason is considered just plain stupid.

"Jesus wept." This close to the great and totally selfless sacrifice on Good Friday, it's easy to figure He's weeping today.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Good question. Irresponsibility? Selfishness? Detachment?


Probably all of them. The tragedy is that bad parents produce bad parents. A child doesn't set out to turn out badly, but its early experiences have the biggest effect.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> The key is to make the best of the situation you have. If your child is in daycare, be happy that he/she is safe and having fun with other kids. Then spend as much time as possible with your child when you're home together. Read, snuggle, talk. Nothing is perfect - we can only do our best.


Here in Minnesota there is legislation to increase the minimum wage. The politicos had a woman talk about her circumstances. She was a single mother of three, worked several part time jobs, attended school full time. Her boyfriend helped her financially and paid when they went out but she had trouble making ends meet. In listening to all this I kept waiting for her to mention time with her kids. She never did. I felt sorry for the kids.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I've heard that. I mentioned on another post an abortion doctor who said he stopped because the most common emotion after an abortion was relief. Maybe it's different now. I hear of women grieving as they leave the abortion clinics. Rather than having an abortion and continuing on her present path, maybe the more mature response is to keep the baby and be a mother.


 Abortions are most likely done for a combination of reasons, where relief is just one. Women who have abortions all have different maturity levels. I'm sure these women all grieve differently as well.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not necessarily.


Oh, my. So - no room for dads at all?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, off2knit for all you know Patty and I could be very well off and very charitable people. I know Patty and what I do is practice in our daily lives what we preach. I don't know if I can say the same about you and then your "Have a blessed day" is meaningless when you are so judgemental of other's when you don't even know us. Think about your own motives and acts before you judge anyone else. I thought Christians only believe there is one judge and I know as sure as I am Cheeky Blighter it isn't you lady living in your "la la land". We live in the real world where the people are real and we deal with it quite nicely without any help from you. We practice the corporal acts of mercy, do you even know what they are?


I know Off2knit and can only say you must have done something big to get her riled up. She's gracious and kind and usually the peacemaker. If she's upset, there's probably a pretty good reason. I don't know what went on, but I'm vouching for her because I know she's very insightful and polite.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would think a feeling of relief would be the most common emotion a doctor would see. I don't believe most women use abortion as birth control but as a last resort. I have never met anyone who said "oh boy today I am going to have an abortion!" I was a young woman when you could only get a legal abortion in CA or NY and if you couldn't get the money together you risked your life trying to abort yourself or have someone do it for you in a nasty back alley. That is desparation and yes a big sigh of relief would be what you would first feel as this huge burden had been lifted off your shoulders. I think there is also a sense of loss and guilt that has to be dealt with later. I see abortion as the lesser of two evils and only a woman and her god need to be involved. Not the U.S. government.


My point of view is that the government should protect the innocent baby from being killed. Many people are more protective of convicted killers than they are of innocent babies who haven't had a chance to draw breath. I can't agree with that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bonnie I have been no comfort for her. I have tried to help her but she hasn't reponded to anyone's help. She is bitter because it was mainly my fil that forced her to have the abortion. She was 22 and was devoiced at the time. He was afraid it was her ex husbands. He later said he shouldn't have made her do it.


Oh - that's a shame that she hasn't taken help.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here in Minnesota there is legislation to increase the minimum wage. The politicos had a woman talk about her circumstances. She was a single mother of three, worked several part time jobs, attended school full time. Her boyfriend helped her financially and paid when they went out but she had trouble making ends meet. In listening to all this I kept waiting for her to mention time with her kids. She never did. I felt sorry for the kids.


If she had a boyfriend but no time for the kids, that's a darn shame. I feel sorry for them, too. Children are so innocent and trusting. They love their parents, no matter how their parents treat them. That alone should give people something to think about. If they think.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Abortions are most likely done for a combination of reasons, where relief is just one. Women who have abortions all have different maturity levels. I'm sure these women all grieve differently as well.


That's right - it would be an individual thing - and private. It would be a lonely grief, I'd think.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would think a feeling of relief would be the most common emotion a doctor would see. I don't believe most women use abortion as birth control but as a last resort. I have never met anyone who said "oh boy today I am going to have an abortion!" I was a young woman when you could only get a legal abortion in CA or NY and if you couldn't get the money together you risked your life trying to abort yourself or have someone do it for you in a nasty back alley. That is desparation and yes a big sigh of relief would be what you would first feel as this huge burden had been lifted off your shoulders. I think there is also a sense of loss and guilt that has to be dealt with later. I see abortion as the lesser of two evils and only a woman and her god need to be involved. Not the U.S. government.


It really is just this way isn't? Thank you for speaking real.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I know Off2knit and can only say you must have done something big to get her riled up. She's gracious and kind and usually the peacemaker. If she's upset, there's probably a pretty good reason. I don't know what went on, but I'm vouching for her because I know she's very insightful and polite.


Maybe she's just having a bad week?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Good question. Irresponsibility? Selfishness? Detachment?


Not even the pill is fool proof. The only 100% reliable way to not get pregnant is no sex.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It really is just this way isn't? Thank you for speaking real.


************************
I see what you mean.

People in a desperate situation shouldn't have to make big decisions all alone. That's why when someone is raped, we don't let her husband go out and beat the rapist to death. We go to court where objective people make sure they have the right guy - and punish him. We might want her husband to beat the crap out of him, but we can't do it.

This isn't true with abortion. Where is the objective person who looks at both sides of the picture - mother and baby? There is no one to defend the defenseless in this case.

A relief for the mother - I see that. But not being in the situation, I also see the sacrifice of the baby, a sacrifice made without consent, the ultimate sacrifice of an innocent child. Maybe the sacrifice would be better made by the mother - a sacrifice of her plans and her lifestyle, for sure - but not of her very life.

I care about the mothers, but surely there is another answer out there that doesn't involve the death of the child. The mothers need help in finding another answer. My opinion.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I know of 3 couples who received 3 surprises while using the pill. The resukt of one of them is my grandaughter. It was a happy surprise for mom and daddy and a precious gift for me!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Maybe she's just having a bad week?


Nope, having a great week. Just do not like how you and others ganged up and bullied Yarnie to the point of putting her in physical danger.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Is this fair?
> What if many people bought tickets for a baseball game, and the game was cancelled because of rain. The tickets would need to be refunded.
> Those that purchased $5 tickets would get $15, because they were in poverty.
> Those that purchased $15 tickets would get $15, because that would be fair.
> ...


Ridiculous and not the same as what you are trying to imply.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Nope, having a great week. Just do not like how you and others ganged up and bullied Yarnie to the point of putting her in physical danger.


There has been enough bullying on the forum to go around, and you know that. It's a new day.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration


This is awful.
And how many American died under the Bush administration? Why do you do this?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> This is awful.
> And how many American died under the Bush administration? Why do you do this?


Are you including the 3000+ that the terrorists killed on 9/11? Because if Clinton had been doing his elected job instead of getting a **** job in the Oval Office, your spiteful question would not be needed to be asked.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Are you including the 3000+ that the terrorists killed on 9/11? Because if Clinton had been doing his elected job instead of getting a **** job in the Oval Office, your spiteful question would not be needed to be asked.


9/11 did not occur during Clinton's time in office.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Are you including the 3000+ that the terrorists killed on 9/11? Because if Clinton had been doing his elected job instead of getting a **** job in the Oval Office, your spiteful question would not be needed to be asked.


Oh, I thought that happened on George's watch. Was my old brain not remembering properly? (Sweetly)
What about all the people killed in a couple of wars predicated on an outright lie? Don't you count those killed in a war?
You could have avoided this whole discussion if you hadn't felt the need to remind us all that the woman killed giving books to children was the 4th under the Obama administration. And why add that she was killed giving books to children? Would it have been not as bad if she were giving bread to poor people? Or giving books to adults?
You don't need to answer and you don't need to talk like that. I'm pointing out that you are stirring the pot and putting out the bait. This is intentional on your part and it didn't need to be stated the way it was.
I'm sure glad I baked yesterday. Cookies for all.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> 9/11 did not occur during Clinton's time in office.


Peace goddess, you didn't get it! It was his fault, doncha' know?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration


She is in a "war" zone. I suppose it is Obama's fault? Bush brought us there, perhaps it is his fault?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> There has been enough bullying on the forum to go around, and you know that. It's a new day.


New day true. But as my priest once told me when I was trying to forgive someone that betrayed me beyond repair. He told me that to work on forgiving that person does not mean I have to forget what happened. If I pretended that I forgot, it would be foolish and open myself up for more hurt in the future. So I easily let goofy or non-intentional comments slide. But cruelty should never be forgotten.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Peace goddess, you didn't get it! It was his fault, doncha' know?


Oh right I keep forgetting...must be my age huh?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You're going to like my response for a change.
> I like that you go to your parents and help them do things they can't do themselves. Too many older people don't have children that care about them.
> Seniors are not treated all that well these days.
> I didn't hear Ed today, but I am very upset with Obama's proposal to change SS. I am busy with my email writing campaign.
> See? I don't fall down and worship Obama when I think he's wrong.


Thank you for being honest as it makes me have respect for you. Hugs!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Thank you
> 
> It was a repeat of Friday's show, but when in a car for 8 hrs who cares.
> 
> ...


You are tops in my book and I respect you very much for helping your parents! Hugs!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you for being honest as it makes me have respect for you. Hugs!


Thank you.
Anyone who voted for Obama is always characterized as some kind of idiot who falls down at his feet. He's not perfect, he makes mistakes, and I don't agree with every word that falls out of his mouth. Having said that, I believe he is a good person and is trying to do his best for this country. He has had a myriad of problems fall into his lap--one huge one being the anti-Obama stance of all of the republican obstructionists who want him to fail above all else. I have sat through 1000 pages of drek criticizing and demonizing this man and his family. I've never seen such hatred against a president in my LONG life. And it has made me appreciate even more what he's up against.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know I don't like it either SS . But I don't think when we get to Heaven we will need the love of a pet.


God is love. Some of His love has manifested itself to me through a few small pets' souls, so who am I to refuse it here or elsewhere? Believe what you will, and I'll believe what I will. And if my critters aren't in Heaven, God is STILL going to get a lecture from me until he changes His mind.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not necessarily.


Why not or do you think we the tax payers should pay for someone's lack of stepping up to the plate and take care if his responsibility?

There are too many men getting these young girls pregnant then just moving on to another girl and never looking back! They seem to think it is the girls responsibility and the tax payers.

Our state is nearly broke with so many Welfare babies as they pay for the delivery plus medical care for both the mother and baby while the dad pays Nothing! I"m tired of this!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Peace goddess, you didn't get it! It was his fault, doncha' know?


Andrea it is really unfair of you o point out the truth. I don't know why you do these tings, you know that it upsets "them".


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> God is love. Some of His love has manifested itself to me through a few small pets' souls, so who am I to refuse it here or elsewhere? Believe what you will, and I'll believe what I will. And if my critters aren't in Heaven, God is STILL going to get a lecture from me until he changes His mind, and corrects the situation. And, please, don't tell me what the Bible doesn't say about what I believe.


I won't SS. I would like to believe it too. Love my pets and would like to have them with me. We'll see one day. :lol:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Thank you.
> Anyone who voted for Obama is always characterized as some kind of idiot who falls down at his feet. He's not perfect, he makes mistakes, and I don't agree with every word that falls out of his mouth. Having said that, I believe he is a good person and is trying to do his best for this country. He has had a myriad of problems fall into his lap--one huge one being the anti-Obama stance of all of the republican obstructionists who want him to fail above all else. I have sat through 1000 pages of drek criticizing and demonizing this man and his family. I've never seen such hatred against a president in my LONG life. And it has made me appreciate even more what he's up against.


I am leary of raising the flag of race, but is it possible this is part of the reason for the anti Obama feeling? Even a little bit? I know people who voted for him because he is black and that is not ok with me either.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am leary of raising the flag of race, but is it possible this is part of the reason for the anti Obama feeling? Even a little bit? I know people who voted for him because he is black and that is not ok with me either.


We have already been down that road. We don't care what color he is. Or I don't .


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Peace goddess, you didn't get it! It was his fault, doncha' know?


No but if Clinton had handled the terrorists when they occurred on his watch, they would not have kept escalating their attacks. Good grief, the Towers were attacked, the USS Cole was attacked, an embassy was attacked all under Clinton watch. So while being impeached he bomb an aspirin factory.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why not or do you think we the tax payers should pay for someone's lack of stepping up to the plate and take care if his responsibility?
> 
> There are too many men getting these young girls pregnant then just moving on to another girl and never looking back! They seem to think it is the girls responsibility and the tax payers.
> 
> Our state is nearly broke with so many Welfare babies as they pay for the delivery plus medical care for both the mother and baby while the dad pays Nothing! I"m tired of this!


If a unmarried mother recieves Aide to Families with Dependent Children (fed money administered by states) part of the administration of the program is to get money from the absent father. There are fathers who step up to the plate and others who do not. Sometimes the amount the absent father pays is not equal to the need to support the child.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We have already been down that road. We don't care what color he is. Or I don't .


Cudos to you. Can you imagine that there is apossibility this is an issue for others?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Oh, I thought that happened on George's watch. Was my old brain not remembering properly? (Sweetly)
> What about all the people killed in a couple of wars predicated on an outright lie? Don't you count those killed in a war?
> You could have avoided this whole discussion if you hadn't felt the need to remind us all that the woman killed giving books to children was the 4th under the Obama administration. And why add that she was killed giving books to children? Would it have been not as bad if she were giving bread to poor people? Or giving books to adults?
> You don't need to answer and you don't need to talk like that. I'm pointing out that you are stirring the pot and putting out the bait. This is intentional on your part and it didn't need to be stated the way it was.
> I'm sure glad I baked yesterday. Cookies for all.


ooopppppssss you are talking to me

Her death just happened. And that is how it was reported on the news, while listening to the radio today. Just reporting the facts, not stirring the pot. Amazing you continue to blame the past administration, oh wait that is Obama.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> IWith the multitude of choices for prevention today why are there so many unplanned/unwanted pregnancies?


Quite honestly I believe a lot of women are ambushed by what I've heard referred to as "baby brain". I doubt there's a woman alive who doesn't find the innocent face of a newborn absolutely bewitching, and our hormones and instincts are ever on the alert for an opportunity to get us one of our own. How many otherwise intelligent women inexplicably forget to take their pill, are suddenly too busy to make a quick trip to the drugstore, or decide that nothing is going to happen if they skip the protection just once? It's probably not just carelessness--the drive to reproduce is incredibly strong, sometimes overwhelming.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Byproduct? I don't even want to know.


Yeah, and susanmos2000 is remarking about how when I was 16 and had a serious relationship with a 22 year old man that went on for many years, we would have been able to deal with any "less-than-wanted by-product". I don't think of babies as by-products, my boyfriend and I both thought we were far too young to have children early in our relationship, but if we'd gotten pregnant we wouldn't have called the baby a by-product. I didn't try to correct Susan because I didn't think anyone gave a darn about what I said, but now that you've remarked, I feel obliged to say something. By-product, indeed. What hooey.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> New day true. But as my priest once told me when I was trying to forgive someone that betrayed me beyond repair. He told me that to work on forgiving that person does not mean I have to forget what happened. If I pretended that I forgot, it would be foolish and open myself up for more hurt in the future. So I easily let goofy or non-intentional comments slide. But cruelty should never be forgotten.


Off2Knit here is a Maxine quote for you to use:

Out of order until further notice, as my batteries have run down, and my "give a Dam" is broke and pending repairs!

Gotta Love Maxine!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, I put it crudely, but you know what I mean.


How about NOT putting things crudely? What a gift that would be to this topic. As the butt of your crude remark, I know I'd be a lot happier if you tried to express yourself with a little less crudity.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh she has to have a million of them

hugs back

Sending you a PM with another one


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Andrea it is really unfair of you o point out the truth. I don't know why you do these tings, you know that it upsets "them".


The person you are trying to reach is having a nervous breakdown, please wait for the next available representative!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh she has to have a million of them
> 
> hugs back
> 
> Sending you a PM with another one


Good as I love Maxine!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Cudos to you. Can you imagine that there is apossibility this is an issue for others?


I guess it could be someone but haven't heard it from this group of ladies.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not even the pill is fool proof. The only 100% reliable way to not get pregnant is no sex.


Right.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Seattle, I apologize to you for the hateful things said to you as I did not know your past problems. It explains a lot of things. I am truly sorry and am asking for your forgiveness!

Janeway


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know of 3 couples who received 3 surprises while using the pill. The resukt of one of them is my grandaughter. It was a happy surprise for mom and daddy and a precious gift for me!


I think there are a lot of sweet surprises out there!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Nope, having a great week. Just do not like how you and others ganged up and bullied Yarnie to the point of putting her in physical danger.


Oh, no - what happened to Yarnie?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration


Twenty-five years old - just starting out. Very sad.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bonnie I have been no comfort for her. I have tried to help her but she hasn't reponded to anyone's help. She is bitter because it was mainly my fil that forced her to have the abortion. She was 22 and was devoiced at the time. He was afraid it was her ex husbands. He later said he shouldn't have made her do it.


That makes me feel so sad. I know you'd help if you could. You and I don't agree very often, but I think both of us aren't very happy to see someone suffer for so long. If she belongs to a church and there;s a pastor there she trusts, maybe it's time to take it to God, whether she has already or not. Her FIL oughta help, too, if he didn't when back then.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Are you including the 3000+ that the terrorists killed on 9/11? Because if Clinton had been doing his elected job instead of getting a **** job in the Oval Office, your spiteful question would not be needed to be asked.


Well, Off2Knit - you tell it like it is. He was disgraceful, yet his party loves him.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gee, nobody seemed to mention the embassy attacks and deaths under Bush's term.
2002-US Consulate in Karachi Pakistan 10 Americans killed
2004-US Consulate in Saudi Arabia 8 Americans killed
2004-US Consulate in Uzbekistan 2 Americans killed
9 injured
2007 US Embassy Athens Grenade thrown 0 deaths
2008 US embassy Yemen 10 dead
2001- New York USA 3000 dead

The Bush Administration had at least 9 warnings and did absolutely nothing.
All of the attacks were commited before Obama took office.
And they want Obama's head on a platter for Benghazi?
The Republicans are just looking for political points on this one.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh, no - what happened to Yarnie?


We have not heard from her since all of the lovely lefty ladies were so bad to her. I have been praying for her as know she has health issues.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Seattle, I apologize to you for the hateful things said to you as I did not know your past problems. It explains a lot of things. I am truly sorry and am asking for your forgiveness!
> 
> Janeway


This is a public forum and sometimes we get a little hot under the collar. I know I haven't always been kind to you, either. Forgiveness is easy in these circumstantias and you certainly have mine. Thanks for asking.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, Off2Knit - you tell it like it is. He was disgraceful, yet his party loves him.


Many dems criticized his behavior. Foremost amoung then was Daniel Moynihan (sp?) There are also dems who critize Obama.

Some of the most interesting critics of Obama come from two prominate black public figures (not politicians) Tavis Smiley and Cornell West.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> We have not heard from her since all of the lovely lefty ladies were so bad to her. I have been praying for her as know she has health issues.


I just sent her a PM - hope to hear from her soon.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> We have not heard from her since all of the lovely lefty ladies were so bad to her. I have been praying for her as know she has health issues.


I am a far to the left lefty and I have no idea who (whom?) you are talking about.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> This is a public forum and sometimes we get a little hot under the collar. I know I haven't always been kind to you, either. Forgiveness is easy in these circumstantias and you certainly have mine. Thanks for asking.


Thank you as you never mentioned what a difficult time you have had in your younger days--had I known, it would have made a difference.

I try not to judge anyone for decisions as I have not walked in their shoes.

Maybe just writing some funnies instead of being hateful will keep me under control! I have a lot of them.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> New day true. But as my priest once told me when I was trying to forgive someone that betrayed me beyond repair. He told me that to work on forgiving that person does not mean I have to forget what happened. If I pretended that I forgot, it would be foolish and open myself up for more hurt in the future. So I easily let goofy or non-intentional comments slide. But cruelty should never be forgotten.


Right on! Sometimes we have to forgive and remember so we don't get into the same situation again.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Many dems criticized his behavior. Foremost amoung then was Daniel Moynihan (sp?) There are also dems who critize Obama.
> 
> Some of the most interesting critics of Obama come from two prominate black public figures (not politicians) Tavis Smiley and Cornell West.


I just remember Bob Beckel (I like him now that I "know" him better on The Five), Lainie Davis, James Carville, and others defending him - it was only sex - "move on," moveon.org, etc. They never criticized him at all - and that's why they win elections. They support their guy (Hilary, too with the Rose records, etc.) unconditionally. The GOP, on the other hand, helped Romney lose. Too bad - he's a good person who deserved better. I hate politics. It's just plain nasty.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> We have not heard from her since all of the lovely lefty ladies were so bad to her. I have been praying for her as know she has health issues.


Not all of us, Janeway. ;-)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Right on! Sometimes we have to forgive and remember so we don't get into the same situation again.


It's easy to get caught up in the heat of argument. Sometimes I could kick myself for things I've written.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am a far to the left lefty and I have no idea who (whom?) you are talking about.


Well, read back several pages to around Friday night. Yarnie was very upset by all on line at that time was horrible to her!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I was out of town - missed that. Glad I did. The trouble is, we don't know each other well enough to blast each other. We forget that and unload, including myself in that.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gee, nobody seemed to mention the embassy attacks and deaths under Bush's term.
> 2002-US Consulate in Karachi Pakistan 10 Americans killed
> 2004-US Consulate in Saudi Arabia 8 Americans killed
> 2004-US Consulate in Uzbekistan 2 Americans killed
> ...


You are pathetic if you blame Bush for 9/11. Bush had Congressional permission to go after the terrorist, and many more died. But how many have been saved/

An Ambassador had not been murdered for over 30 years and that occurred under Obama. He, Hillary and others knew he wrote and asked for more help and it was ignored. That is on Obama's head. And I would bet money, that if Benghazi had happened on Bush's watch, Hillary wouldn't have said to get over it.

You and your Bush bashing sound like a broken record. And yes he got Bin L. thanks to water boarding. It is time for Obama to put his big boy pants on, stop campaigning, playing golf and start doing his job. God help us with North Korea


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, read back several pages to around Friday night. Yarnie was very upset by all on line at that time was horrible to her!


Do you mean Yarnlady? She and I have had a few nice and respectful communictions privately. Things do get a bit touchy at times. I think it is low blood sugae...and that is why some of you encourage others to eat cookies....right?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well if anyone is interested a friend just emailed a homemade recipes for laundry.

Laundry detergent:

1 bar of fels naphtha soap
1cup of Borax
1 cup of washing soda

Big pot to hold 2 gallons
A grater
Funnel
Long spoon
2 empty gallon jugs 

Grate soap in pot, add 1 gallon of water put on stove and cook until soap dissolved.

Add Borax & soda and bring to a boil. It will coagulate and thicken. Turn off heat and add 1 gallon of cold water. Stir well.

Pour into 2 (one) gallon jugs.

Use 1/2 cup per load. This does not make suds. Suds don't equal clean. This cleans clothes beautifully!

Homemade fabric softener:

2 cups of your favorite hair conditioner

3 cups of white vinegar

6 cups hot water.

Container to mix ingredients.

Mix ingredients together. Use a pitcher to mix all together as it takes a minute of stirring. DO NOT SHAKE!

Use 1/4 cup per load.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well if anyone is interested a friend just emailed a homemade recipes for laundry.
> 
> Laundry detergent:
> 
> ...


I saw that. I wonder if the cost of buying ingredients is cheaper than buying laundry soap.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you mean Yarnlady? She and I have had a few nice and respectful communictions privately. Things do get a bit touchy at times. I think it is low blood sugae...and that is why some of you encourage others to eat cookies....right?


No, the cookies are meant to calm us down! So far it has worked as we do not get angry at the person who tells us to eat a cookie or two.

As far as we know, no one has heard from her since then!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Peace goddess, I already have those items as I use washing soda/Borax and white vinegar in my laundry already. I sweat bad sometimes so those items cuts the body odor. I will make this soap and try it as store bought soap is very expensive.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well if anyone is interested a friend just emailed a homemade recipes for laundry.
> 
> Laundry detergent:
> 
> ...


I have tried the recipe for the laundry but just use it dry. Just been doing this the last 2 weeks. The laundry water looks dirty so it must pull all the dirt out. I just use use straight vinegar for the softner.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Peace goddess, I already have those items as I use washing soda/Borax and white vinegar in my laundry already. I sweat bad sometimes so those items cuts the body odor. I will make this soap and try it as store bought soap is very expensive.


I have everything except the naptha. Is that a bar soap?

I love receipes like these. I use borax and baking soda in the bathroom. And I use baking soda and lavender in the kitchen. I am looking for a non toxic oven cleaner. Baking soda and vinegar just does not work on heavy spots.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I have everything except the naptha. Is that a bar soap?
> 
> I love receipes like these. I use borax and baking soda in the bathroom. And I use baking soda and lavender in the kitchen. I am looking for a non toxic oven cleaner. Baking soda and vinegar just does not work on heavy spots.


Yes, it is sold in the laundry isle at the grocery. I rub it on stains. It sure gets them out.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country, you use it dry how? I thought the idea is to make it a liquid where everything is well mixed. I wouldn't think dry would be mixed well. Am I wrong?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Out of here as really tired tonight as all of the beans &cornbread was eaten at church. Got to wash up things then going to bed. It was 67 here today, but can you believe it they are talking snow again! Yuk!!!!!

Goodnight ladies!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Country, you use it dry how? I thought the idea is to make it a liquid where everything is well mixed. I wouldn't think dry would be mixed well. Am I wrong?


I am just too lazy to put it in bottle. It has worked dry . It is dry when you use it unmixed. Don't like the grating the bar of Felnapa but do it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit wrote:
I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration

I'm saddened because I have never heard about this incident. I admit I pay as little attention as possible to the news, but the big stuff usually gets through. How about adding the when and where?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ridiculous and not the same as what you are trying to imply.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gee, nobody seemed to mention the embassy attacks and deaths under Bush's term.
> 2002-US Consulate in Karachi Pakistan 10 Americans killed
> 2004-US Consulate in Saudi Arabia 8 Americans killed
> 2004-US Consulate in Uzbekistan 2 Americans killed
> ...


No, the Republicans aren't just looking to get the President's head on a platter for Benghazi, no matter how happy it would make them. You just haven't bothered to look for matching statistics for the President's administration. Because Bush was a drunken fool doesn't mean the current administration's hands are clean. Of course, it's easier to blame W because he's such a big target, and he was so obviously terminally stupid. How many republican candidates sought his endorsement in 2012?

You aren't alone in trying to take that easy way out. Lots of people love to do that. And I say this from the point of view that W was one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had, and from the fact that most of the American people were too busy running up credit card debt to take any responsibility for who they elected for any and every political position around.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I saw that. I wonder if the cost of buying ingredients is cheaper than buying laundry soap.


I'd like to know where you can buy Fels Naptha, Borax and Washing Soda. I used to use them all the time until about 1980 when they seemed to disappear. except for washing soda which took a little longer to disappear. Maybe these cleaners aren't good enough for the big city folk and their delicate clothes and sensibilities.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> ************************
> I see what you mean.
> 
> People in a desperate situation shouldn't have to make big decisions all alone. That's why when someone is raped, we don't let her husband go out and beat the rapist to death. We go to court where objective people make sure they have the right guy - and punish him. We might want her husband to beat the crap out of him, but we can't do it.
> ...


Bonnie - I wish there was an answer and help for every woman in this situation but not all women have access to help, some are pressured by husband or boyfriend or family or rejected by those people who should be helping them out. I respect your opinion and your belief but I don't want to go back to the way it was. It was barbaric. As solway said there are many reasons and we don't know what that woman is dealing with. The last thing she needs is to be considered a criminal and be punished. She has already paid a dear price and I won't judge her. Women won't stop having abortions if it is made illegal and good intentions from people won't make a woman's problems go away. I also see the hypocrisy of people who insist babies be born and once they are here they are at the mercy of whoever is to raise them. I don't see these people outraged when children end up brutalized by their own parents and even murdered. Where are those people then? Then they put the blinders on. Who saves those babies? Don't those babies deserve to be loved and cared for too?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I posted this:
> 
> Is this fair?
> What if many people bought tickets for a baseball game, and the game was cancelled because of rain. The tickets would need to be refunded.
> ...


I wish we were on the road to socialism. Your example of the tickets is not a representation of socialism. Go to the socialist site and do some in depth reading.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'd like to know where you can buy Fels Naptha, Borax and Washing Soda. I used to use them all the time until about 1980 when they seemed to disappear. except for washing soda which took a little longer to disappear. Maybe these cleaners aren't good enough for the big city folk and their delicate clothes and sensibilities.


I found all of it at Walmart .


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thanks as I thought her Avatar looked as something LilyCon'O'PolyK as she always had something weird in the Avatar!
> 
> Thank you Country for the information.


Ditto.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Janeway seems to think 'bullfeathers' (Teddy Roosevelt) is cursing and disrespectful to Native Americans, for whom she speaks.
> 
> I'm more a 'a bull doesn't have feathers' so the emperor has no clothes.
> 
> We're looking for opinions from the group.


My mother used to say, "Horse feathers!" So - go figure. How's that for muddying the waters?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually the Urban Dictionary says
> 
> "Bull feathers" is an interjection used to express disbelief. The concept is similar to "preposterous," which suggests that such an undeniable contradiction exists in the assertion being challenged that it cannot possibly be believed. In this case, the contradiction is clear: there is quite obviously no such thing as a bull with feathers.


I've also heard "bull hockey." I always thought it was a nice way to say B.S. ? Guess that's my mind in the gutter again.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I guess you're right about the problem Susan. Janeway has confirmed it.


If this is aimed at someone with a problem, that is bullying and should be stopped! That's going too far. We should never make light of another's problems.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, no! I've been plagiarized. Maybe Ingreid can help me... :mrgreen: Maybe you girls could pretend to be grownups and talk about something that matters. Then again, as this country seems to circling the drain, maybe there is no point in attempting do do anything besides playing this little game you've got going about who someone with a "new" user name supposedly used to be.:hunf:


Ahh - the voice of sweet reason. What's this with new names anyway?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I get it now, this topic has entered the Twilight Zone. For some reason BrattyPatty has been sending me PMs telling me how to behave and reminding me that we once exchanged many PMs and I have absolutely no idea who this self-styled brat is. She must be from the Twilight Zone, or hallucinating about a nonexistent past she thinks we have. i am completely grossed out. Maybe Bratty is some kind of stalker. I sure hope not. Oh, and she tells me she's been around you ladies for a long time. :thumbdown:


Maybe she's Ingried?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I did not know about the epilepsy, but obviously Susan did, or she would not have made that comment. What a cruel thing to say. If I had known about her epilepsy, there is no way I would have baited her, viciously attacked her, ganged up on her, ridiculed her....... knowing that stress could bring on another seizure. You have once again proven that you and your friends are some of the cruelest people on this forum, shame on you.
> 
> http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/provoke_stress


Outrageous for grown women to treat anyone like that. It was pretty obvious that something was wrong from her posts.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> We should never make light of another's problems.


Sound advice...unless the other person's problem causes her to unleash a torrent of obscenity and abuse. Then it's either laugh or cry.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hope that God will keep you that way.
> 
> You were the nasty one that brought up Yarnie's Epilepsy, telling her to put a pencil in between her teeth. Obviously you and others knew that from former threads, because that type of nasty and vicious comment is far too random to be accidentally flung about. Then some of you started your pile on, and it escalated to the point of a wild dog pack attacking a sheep. Words do not fail me about what I think of you and the others in the wolf pack, just too lady like to express them. Shame on all of you


I found comment shocking, too. Let's remember that we're not just spouting off - we're talking TO each other. Take it easy. Good grief!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I found comment shocking, too. Let's remember that we're not just spouting off - we're talking TO each other. Take it easy. Good grief!


Quite frankly I was amazed myself when the extent of Yarnie's problems became obvious so quickly. Up until then her posts had been well-thought out and reasonable, despite the typos.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

To be fair, Bonnie, some of us didn't know that yarnlady had a medical issue. I saw the foul names coming out in the posts and asked her to stop, that it wasn't necessary.
Janeway sent me a PM to let me know what was going on. 
I Pm'd several people to let them know and got a nasty response from somebody who's name I will not mention. Just to be fair...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Actually the most troubling thing is that it did take folks a while to realize that words coming out of Yarnie's mouth were an indication of a serious problem and not just "business as usual" in the thread. That speaks volumes about the general tone and attitudes we have come to expect here--unfortunately.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sound advice...unless the other person's problem causes her to unleash a torrent of obscenity and abuse. Then it's either laugh or cry.


Even then - it's really not funny, especially for her.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> To be fair, Bonnie, some of us didn't know that yarnlady had a medical issue. I saw the foul names coming out in the posts and asked her to stop, that it wasn't necessary.
> Janeway sent me a PM to let me know what was going on.
> I Pm'd several people to let them know and got a nasty response from somebody who's name I will not mention. Just to be fair...


I'm so glad Janeway let you know. I thought you treated her as a friend would, just telling her to take it easy. She's a wonderful person, and her usual posts add humor and facts and spice.

I doubt she'll be back, though. Hope I'm wrong.

I saw another very cruel post poking fun at someone else's disability - right before they started with Yarnie. That frankly shocked me. I don't approve of that at all under any circumstances.

There are a lot of talented people on here who are using their creativity in spite of difficult health issues. I hope I'd be as strong as they are. They're admirable.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Most parents do the best they can. Some don't have any idea how to raise mature, well-adjusted adults. What then? Do we just go on bragging of how well we've done? We share the same planet and the same problems, don't we? 

No man is an island. John Donne


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Give up sleep too.



BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, you could be with them 24/7.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I respect your opinion and your belief but I don't want to go back to the way it was. It was barbaric. And the number of abortions performed today isn't barbaric? Is that just because it's been legalized?
> I don't see these people outraged when children end up brutalized by their own parents and even murdered. I am against returning children back to parents and homes where they've been abused. One strike and you're out. The parents should have their parental rights stripped and the children put up for adoption. No second chances. Where are those people then? Then they put the blinders on. Who saves those babies? Don't those babies deserve to be loved and cared for too? We are here. We are scoffed at and ignored, as always. However, I'm too old to be considered for adopting and the younger ones ignore their own children. Why give them more? All children have a right to be loved. We are failing them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Good responses, Thumper. There is help out there.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No single person, regardless of how well-intentioned and wealthy they may be, can take on the problems of the poor, disabled, handicapped etc. of the country. IMHO, if we claim to be a civilized nation, our government must take on these issues. Opinions?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Most parents do the best they can. Some don't have any idea how to raise mature, well-adjusted adults. What then? Do we just go on bragging of how well we've done? We share the same planet and the same problems, don't we?
> 
> No man is an island. John Donne


They don't want to listen. And why is it bragging if we _have_ done a good job?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Even then - it's really not funny, especially for her.


No, I'm sure no one was laughing Friday evening. I'm not sure which is worse--one woman being pushed over the edge by the never-ending ill-will and rancor of the thread, or one woman sliding over for other reasons and no one really noticing because that's what we've come to expect each other to sound like.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Many times parents do not know how to teach their children. And the beat goes on....



rocky1991 said:


> Certainly the majority do not commit murder or get pregnant. You can not force parents to do their job of parenting. So what do you do with the children,, teens who do have sex? They will have sex, make no mistake about that. Most of these kids are not bad, just not emotionally mature enough to make good decisions. If the parents are not teaching them, who should? I believe in sex education in school. Teach the children how to avoid pregnancy or diseases that are with you for life, even death. Saying that parents should do their job just does no make them do their job.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, I'm sure no one was laughing Friday evening. I'm not sure which is worse--one woman being pushed over the edge by the never-ending ill-will and rancor of the thread, or one woman sliding over and no one really noticing because that's what we've come to expect from each other?


Well, let's expect better and do better.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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