# Things are heating up in the world #7



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> PP? With a tat? You think? Too funny!
> 
> (Kidding, in case someone reads literally)


 Should we tell her to read the latest thread on tats and see what some posters say about tats? What does she think she will look like when she is old????????? (tongue in cheek)


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Haven't they always done that? Our government isn't much better.


I think that people have forgotten those pictures of the guards degrading the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. The pictures of the naked prisoners, with bags over their heads, and the guards with their foot on their heads, or the prisoners, naked, and stacked up like a pyramid.

Just a little video to watch.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I think that people have forgotten those pictures of the guards degrading the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. The pictures of the naked prisoners, with bags over their heads, and the guards with their foot on their heads, or the prisoners, naked, and stacked up like a pyramid.
> 
> Just a little video to watch.
> 
> ...


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> I don't understand the hoopla over Americans torturing. What about the waterboarding of some years ago? No surprise there.


They say that any confession obtained by torture cannot be relied on. People will say anything, agree to anything just to stop the torture. Unfortunately, all armies have used torture and have done so from the beginning of time. Some people think that it is only the enemy that uses torture, they just do not believe that their own army, their own sons, fathers, husbands, could or would use tortue in order to gain information.

Even police use torture as a means of gaining a confession.

We have instances of men being gaoled for murders they did not commit, they signed the prepared confession that the detectives put in front of them, just to stop the torture. Yes, we have three famous cases here in Western Australia where the Government has had to pay out $100,000s. to the wrongly incarcerated prisoners. The men spent years in prison because of these confessions. In two cases the real killer had confessed to the crimes but the police would not believe him, they already had a man in prison for the crime and that was the end of the story. Thank heavens we do not have the death penalty here.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I think that people have forgotten those pictures of the guards degrading the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. The pictures of the naked prisoners, with bags over their heads, and the guards with their foot on their heads, or the prisoners, naked, and stacked up like a pyramid.
> 
> Just a little video to watch.
> 
> ...


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Absolutely couldn't resist this pic for a new avatar...


It's cute and unnerving at the same time! I'm wondering what's startled the poor little thing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think it's morbid at all. You've always been so kind and loving toward your Mom. I bet she worries about what you'll do.

I think you're just being practical.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm fantasizing freely about the whole subjects of where, how and why I'll choose a place to live after my mother dies. How morbid of me, in a way, but I think it makes sense to be prepared. We live in a small apartment house, 4 units, and I've never been very fond of apartments. Then again, I may stay here because I'm super close to a shopping mall and public transportation.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> It's not just my story; it's the truth. It would be up to you to prove the picture had been posted here before, and to prove there was the "yuck fest" you speak of.
> 
> But you couldn't prove either of those *because, as with most of your "facts," they are not true.*


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Those blue eyes knock your socks off.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Absolutely couldn't resist this pic for a new avatar...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> SO, SO cute!!! I want that kitten!


I have the twin of that kitten, figuratively, but he's 16 years old now. I don't think it's afraid of anything. It looks like "crazy play time" to me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Geez !! How many times can I post the same thing???


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have that kitten the twin of that kitten, figuratively, but he's 16 years old now.


Are you having an attack of vertigo?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> A tattoo?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Absolutely couldn't resist this pic for a new avatar...


I can understand. With those huge animals around, it's getting stressful for the little ones.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> PP? With a tat? You think? Too funny!
> 
> (Kidding, in case someone reads literally)


You're right. I don't even like them on others, even on people I don't know. Whenever I see one I think "That person had ink drilled into his/her skin for ornamentation." Maybe not whenever; most of the time I just shiver.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, great! Our government is going to be releasing a report that details how we tortured our enemies following 911! This report includes all of the specific details. They're expecting Americans to be killed in retaliation.
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/impending-cia-interrogation-report-creates-fear-violence/story?id=27432670
> 
> I'm horrified that our government tortured anyone! It absolutely disgusts me that they did this in our name, without our consent! Our government is unrecognizable! Before anyone bothers to tell me that the current regime does not advocate torture, just keep in mind that they're just having someone else do it for them. The world is an evil place! And our country isn't making it better, any longer!


I agree. Torture is not what we do - or at least not what I believe we should ever do. It's barbaric and fundamentally wrong. To turn prisoners over to countries who torture is exactly the same as doing it ourselves. Wrong on every level.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that any confession obtained by torture cannot be relied on. People will say anything, agree to anything just to stop the torture. Unfortunately, all armies have used torture and have done so from the beginning of time. Some people think that it is only the enemy that uses torture, they just do not believe that their own army, their own sons, fathers, husbands, could or would use tortue in order to gain information.
> 
> Even police use torture as a means of gaining a confession.
> 
> We have instances of men being gaoled for murders they did not commit, they signed the prepared confession that the detectives put in front of them, just to stop the torture. Yes, we have three famous cases here in Western Australia where the Government has had to pay out $100,000s. to the wrongly incarcerated prisoners. The men spent years in prison because of these confessions. In two cases the real killer had confessed to the crimes but the police would not believe him, they already had a man in prison for the crime and that was the end of the story. Thank heavens we do not have the death penalty here.


Familiar story. But we DO have the death penalty, which I don't believe in, ever. Even for the likes of Jodi Arias. Let 'em rot in prison. Proven to be cheaper and if it was me, the thought of life in prison would be worse than death. Can't correct a mistake if the prisoner has been put to death and we are seeing too many cases like the ones you describe.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I agree. Torture is not what we do - or at least not what I believe we should ever do. It's barbaric and fundamentally wrong. To turn prisoners over to countries who torture is exactly the same as doing it ourselves. Wrong on every level.


Wrong on every level - but has been done, is done and will always be done. Human nature.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Are you having an attack of vertigo?


She may not be, but I am.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I can understand. With those huge animals around, it's getting stressful for the little ones.


Your kitten is a real cutie, too.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I agree. Torture is not what we do - or at least not what I believe we should ever do. It's barbaric and fundamentally wrong. To turn prisoners over to countries who torture is exactly the same as doing it ourselves. Wrong on every level.


Have we always used torture? Did I just not know?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Wrong on every level - but has been done, is done and will always be done. Human nature.


If it's human nature, why do I find it so abhorrent?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Have we always used torture? Did I just not know?


I heard nothing about it until Bush/Cheney became famous with their water boarding tactics.
As far as I know we followed the Geneva Convention rules up until then.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If it's human nature, why do I find it so abhorrent?


I don't believe it is human nature to torture. Maybe psychopathic nature to torture.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It would be nice. This is a many-layered subject. Right now I'm just kind of ticked off because there have been marches in my city two nights in a row, with all the accompanying violence and property damage. There were huge violent marches against the illegal war in Vietnam here in the 60s and they final got so bad that I moved a 1,000 miles away.
> 
> As I've said, probably too many times, I think we're seeing a new Civil Rights Movement. A lot of strides were made in the 60s, but didn't trickle far enough down the social scale to poor African-Americans.


Protests so bad they chased you that far? They must have been terrible. The Vietnam War protests in this city of 8 million were peaceful, for the most part, with a lot, a whole lot of people standing still, I think. And Country Joe and the Fish singing.

Our worst protests were the ones during the Republican convention in 2004. Thousands of people arrested for exercising their free speech, and the city had to pay huge amounts to the ones arrested. It was bad, and it was embarrassing, esp. since it was held here only to say







to an entire city.

I hope you're right about a new civil rights movement. It's badly needed, and that's becoming obvious to everyone. It will probably be painful, but it's absolutely necessary.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Should we tell her to read the latest thread on tats and see what some posters say about tats? What does she think she will look like when she is old????????? (tongue in cheek)


When I'm old? Sweetie, I'm a few months older than you. Is there a KP thread about tats? <shiver>


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I think that people have forgotten those pictures of the guards degrading the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay. The pictures of the naked prisoners, with bags over their heads, and the guards with their foot on their heads, or the prisoners, naked, and stacked up like a pyramid.
> 
> Just a little video to watch.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have the twin of that kitten, figuratively, but he's 16 years old now. I don't think it's afraid of anything. It looks like "crazy play time" to me.


Oh, yes, taking a psychotic break. I've always loved those. My 17-year-old has cut hers down to once or twice a week, but she still tries to fly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Your kitten is a real cutie, too.


She used to be Eve's. I've coveted her for a long time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Have we always used torture? Did I just not know?


The first I heard about it was Abu Ghreib, in Iraq. A big deal was made about that place, but then it turned out we were sending prisoners to "black sites" in countries where torture was common. And then Bush's lawyer wrote a statement saying torture was okay in his book. The book should be burned.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Wrong on every level - but has been done, is done and will always be done. Human nature.


Like rape and wife-beating?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> When I'm old? Sweetie, I'm a few months older than you. Is there a KP thread about tats? <shiver>


Exactly what I mean, *when you are old*, you are still a spring chicken. My sisters are 87 and 86 years old and they tell me that they are definitely not old, the 87 year old still takes off and flies here there and everywhere. They tell me I am still the pesky little sister. So, young lady, enough of this being an old lady malarkey because we just do not believe you.

I just had a plumber install a new hot water system, my daughter recommended him, and he said he was 75 years old. He was as bright as a button and full of energy. He is just driving out of the driveway as I type .

Link for the tat discussion

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-302969-1.html


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If it's human nature, why do I find it so abhorrent?


Because you have low T.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't believe it is human nature to torture. Maybe psychopathic nature to torture.


Thank you, Patty. It's the sickest part of human nature that does that. Do we excuse the Nazis because they were human, too; what they did must be human nature?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Like rape and wife-beating?


Sure.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She used to be Eve's. I've coveted her for a long time.


I have a new one now. Do you like it?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Patty. It's the sickest part of human nature that does that. Do we excuse the Nazis because they were human, too; what they did must be human nature?


I watched the documentary on Death Camp Treblinka last week. I would not call the guards and commandants of that camp 'human'. No way could they be termed human.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I watched the documentary on Death Camp Treblinka last week. I would not call the guards and commandants of that camp 'human'. No way could they be termed human.


Why not? It is human nature to do horrible things to the "others". You know enough about world history to understand that.

Or for those so inclined, read the bible.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Exactly what I mean, *when you are old*, you are still a spring chicken. My sisters are 87 and 86 years old and they tell me that they are definitely not old, the 87 year old still takes off and flies here there and everywhere. They tell me I am still the pesky little sister. So, young lady, enough of this being an old lady malarkey because we just do not believe you.
> 
> I just had a plumber install a new hot water system, my daughter recommended him, and he said he was 75 years old. He was as bright as a button and full of energy. He is just driving out of the driveway as I type .
> 
> ...


Well, that was an eye-opener. It's wonderful that women of all ages are unafraid to get those things. I find having my hair cut takes too long; to sit there while someone jabs me to make a picture would feel like an even bigger waste of time. So I'll pass, but I won't worry about women who want them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have a new one now. Do you like it?


I love it. Are they yours? They look very close. When I had two cats, one adored the other and would groom her all day long. The other would hiss if her sister came near me. The sweet one died 5 years ago, but the hissy one is still around, though she doesn't hiss at people. She shouts orders at us, but no hissing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think when the report comes out, it will be worse than anybody thought.
> JMO


Knitter from Nebraska
I can only say that I am thankful that these days we start reporting all happenings, not soon enough however. Had there been press during Hitler's reign, as we have today, much would have turned out different. If it is wrong what has been done or is being done we must allow our dastardly deeds to be exposed no matter what the consequences. I think what we learn from the disclosures will be worse than any of us thought. G.W. sure is quite worried. Wonder if Cheney will put his puss out there again. That Man truly gags me.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I watched the documentary on Death Camp Treblinka last week. I would not call the guards and commandants of that camp 'human'. No way could they be termed human.


Sadly torture, raping, killing have happened through the centuries. It doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be above doing those things though. A lot of it through history has gone on for Religious reasons. That is what must be remembered by those who espouse religions, they are not without blame either. Women have been considered to be less than men, and have been given away, sold, raped, watched their husbands killed and then taken by the killer, and on and on for centuries. Small wonder that it is still going on.

I saw that Deathcamp Treblinka -- it is horrendous .

I remember as a young teenager after the war going to a theatre with my mother and younger sister, and the 'news of the world' came on and showed what the allied armies found in Belsen and Auswitch (I believe) . I had nightmares for weeks. Everyone in the theatre was crying. Pat visited Belsen 7 years after the war ended when he was stationed with Nato in Germany. He said it was absolutely quiet. He said you can't explain it - but it is now a memorial I believe. 
He had nightmares after visiting there. It was so unbelievable some still don't believe it. Another reason I became a liberal, very young. Right and Wrong -- throughout my life. Those on the Right feel they are right, but I think we care more for people who are downtrodden.

I am watching CNN hour with Don Lemon on Bill Cosby. Lots coming out. 6 of his 'victims' are on together. That is a real mess. I believe them (the 5 that are on the program tonight. Not sure about the former actress and Miss America (??) I wonder what will happen. It is sad as so many people looked up to him.

I have my little grand daughter's coat of many colors pullover nearly finished. I will post a picture when it is done. She came and tried it on and it looks great.

Well, I am going to go and read for awhile - I have an appt. 
early tomorrow. Talk to you all tomorrow.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I watched the documentary on Death Camp Treblinka last week. I would not call the guards and commandants of that camp 'human'. No way could they be termed human.


Most of them had wives and children, and probably loved them. One of their tactics was to speak of the people in the camps as if _they_ were not human. Once they believed that, they could do anything to their inferiors.

But they had to convince themselves first that it was all right. No, I don't think it's normal human nature to want to torture people.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I love it. Are they yours? They look very close. When I had two cats, one adored the other and would groom her all day long. The other would hiss if her sister came near me. The sweet one died 5 years ago, but the hissy one is still around, though she doesn't hiss at people. She shouts orders at us, but no hissing.


Sorry, the cats are not mine, the picture was posted here on KP by a KPer from Turkey. She also posted a couple of other lovely animal photos. My female cat grooms the male cat, she also grooms me.

Thanks for the video link in your other post, I enjoyed watching it, although I half expected Lydie, the tattoed lady to appear at the end.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Most of them had wives and children, and probably loved them. One of their tactics was to speak of the people in the camps as if _they_ were not human. Once they believed that, they could do anything to their inferiors.
> 
> But they had to convince themselves first that it was all right. No, I don't think it's normal human nature to want to torture people.


I wish I could agree with you, but I believe humankind has proved repeatedly that they will, and do torture and inflict suffering on other human beings in any number of horrible and inventive ways. It's a constant throughout history.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I wish I could agree with you, but I believe humankind has proved repeatedly that they will, and do torture and inflict suffering on other human beings in any number of horrible and inventive ways. It's a constant throughout history.


I think I fall in the middle of the road on this issue--yes, it's undeniably part of our heritage to do absolutely horrible things to each other, but deep down we do know it's wrong. Even the Nazis knew their actions were a crime against humanity, which is why they put in a quite a bit of effort trying to cover up as the war wound down, ie destroying the crematoriums, burying bodies, emptying and dismantling some of the camps.

In fact, what's always disturbed me about the Nazis was that they DID know their behavior was evil but went right ahead anyway. A certain percentage of concentration personnel were true psychopaths who enjoyed torturing and killing, but by and large most were seemingly ordinary men and women who went to church each Sunday and loved their families.

And yes, Treblinka was among the worst of the worst concentration camps--only Sobibor outranks it, in my opinion. Enough people survived Treblinka to give the world a pretty fair picture of the horrors that went on there, but the workings of Sobibor remain to this day an evil mystery. That very fact makes my skin crawl--250,000+ murdered, and historians still don't know exactly how it was accomplished or much at all about the victims or the few survivors (a mere _fifty_!)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I can only say that I am thankful that these days we start reporting all happenings, not soon enough however. Had there been press during Hitler's reign, as we have today, much would have turned out different. If it is wrong what has been done or is being done we must allow our dastardly deeds to be exposed no matter what the consequences. I think what we learn from the disclosures will be worse than any of us thought. G.W. sure is quite worried. Wonder if Cheney will put his puss out there again. That Man truly gags me.


I wish I could agree with you. I don't think that all happenings are being reported. All of our media is owned by just five corporations. The very few who control those corporations, decide what we will hear, and what we will not. Those very few, not only manipulate the people but manipulate those in government. Wars are fought for their purposes. A LOT goes on, that we never hear about. When we do hear about something, it's because they want us to hear it. It causes me to wonder why they wanted us to hear about this. I think that the reason is to manipulate people's thinking. They can put all of the horrors of war onto bush to make people think that era of war is over. Give the people a place to put their blame and outrage. All the while, the war to conquer the middle east continues. bush and cheney are too high up on the totem pole of power. They're not worried about anything. They're untouchables.

Terrible things are still going on but now they're being done by our proxies, al qaida and isis. We cannot ignore the fact that our government created and supported these groups! I don't believe that our government created these groups to beat the bad guys, but then these groups turned against us. I believe that the CIA controls these groups and much of what goes on in the world, and I believe that they are evil! They are controlled by no one! Not by congress, not by the senate and not by presidents (except maybe bush, because he used to run it).

I believe that if they're allowing us to hear something, it's because they're using it to manipulate us. The atrocities didn't stop with the end of one adminstration and the beginning of another. They're still going on! The might of the United States military could have eliminated al qaida and isis any time, if they wanted to. It's about toppling these middle east regimes, and installing leaders who will cooperate. The US is not fighting a defensive war. It's an offensive war to take control if the middle east. It's about oil, money and power! All while trying to manipulate the American people into thinking they're the good guys. I don't buy it! The war should end! The people need to wake up to why the war is being fought, and demand that it end. The people also need to demand equal access for the independent media, if we ever want to hear truth!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I could agree with you. I don't think that all happenings are being reported. All of our media is owned by just five corporations. The very few who control those corporations, decide what we will hear, and what we will not. Those very few, not only manipulate the people but manipulate those in government. Wars are fought for their purposes. A LOT goes on, that we never hear about. When we do hear about something, it's because they want us to hear it. It causes me to wonder why they wanted us to hear about this. I think that the reason is to manipulate people's thinking. They can put all of the horrors of war onto bush to make people think that era of war is over. Give the people a place to put their blame and outrage. All the while, the war to conquer the middle east continues. bush and cheney are too high up on the totem pole of power. They're not worried about anything. They're untouchables.
> 
> Terrible things are still going on but now they're being done by our proxies, al qaida and isis. We cannot ignore the fact that our government created and supported these groups! I don't believe that our government created these groups to beat the bad guys, but then these groups turned against us. I believe that the CIA controls these groups and much of what goes on in the world, and I believe that they are evil! They are controlled by no one! Not by congress, not by the senate and not by presidents (except maybe bush, because he used to run it).
> 
> I believe that if they're allowing us to hear something, it's because they're using it to manipulate us. The atrocities didn't stop with the end of one adminstration and the beginning of another. They're still going on! The might of the United States military could have eliminated al qaida and isis any time, if they wanted to. It's about toppling these middle east regimes, and installing leaders who will cooperate. The US is not fighting a defensive war. It's an offensive war to take control if the middle east. It's about oil, money and power! All while trying to manipulate the American people into thinking they're the good guys. I don't buy it! The war should end! The people need to wake up to why the war is being fought, and demand that it end. The people also need to demand equal access for the independent media, if we ever want to hear truth!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Spot on, Nebraska.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Three cheers for Nebs. America is the most belligerent country on the face of the Earth. I just don't understand what is the point about releasing the CIA bad news at this point. Re : Hitler and the press - he was in total control of it and would speak differently to different media. He would also tailor his speeches to the audience. He was the first to figure out the power of the modern media. 

Marijuana is being legalized and decriminalized for a reason. What better than to have a passive, mellow, navel contemplating populous so the government can really do what it wants?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Most of them had wives and children, and probably loved them. One of their tactics was to speak of the people in the camps as if _they_ were not human. Once they believed that, they could do anything to their inferiors.
> 
> But they had to convince themselves first that it was all right. No, I don't think it's normal human nature to want to torture people.


I think it's human nature to follow. It's easy to excuse behavior if others are doing it. It's also easy to excuse if someone in authority tells you to do something. I've always found the Milgram Experiment to be extremely interesting. It's results have always been so hard for me to accept.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> Spot on, Nebraska.


I am really surprised that you agreed with me. I fully expected to be called a conspiracy theorist.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Three cheers for Nebs. America is the most belligerent country on the face of the Earth. I just don't understand what is the point about releasing the CIA bad news at this point. Re : Hitler and the press - he was in total control of it and would speak differently to different media. He would also tailor his speeches to the audience. He was the first to figure out the power of the modern media.
> 
> Marijuana is being legalized and decriminalized for a reason. What better than to have a passive, mellow, navel contemplating populous so the government can really do what it wants?


I don't know what the point is. I only know that there is one. Perhaps it is their intent to incite acts of terrorism. After all, that would seem to validate their excuses for the war. The people must believe that this is a war on terror, not a war to conquer the middle east.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Marijuana is being legalized and decriminalized for a reason. What better than to have a passive, mellow, navel contemplating populous so the government can really do what it wants?


Have you ever read Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"? He presents a similar theory.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think it's human nature to follow. It's easy to excuse behavior if others are doing it. It's also easy to excuse if someone in authority tells you to do something. I've always found the Milgram Experiment to be extremely interesting. It's results have always been so hard for me to accept.


I know--but that experiment has been repeated time and time again, and the results are always the same: some 60% continue to dish out major electrical shocks just because the guy in the white coat orders them to.

One variation--an adorable little puppy was once hooked to the business end of the generator and actually received some harmless but very real (and painful) shocks--within full view of the test subjects. Researchers thought that might change the outcome and it did--fewer men (only 50%) were willing to go along with it, but every single woman in the study dutifully zapped the puppy as ordered. So much for the traditional perception of women as caretakers and nurturers. :roll:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am really surprised that you agreed with me. I fully expected to be called a conspiracy theorist.


Not this time, Nebraska--I couldn't agree with you more. (does that make me at heart a conspiracy theorist?)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not this time, Nebraska--I couldn't agree with you more. (does that make me at heart a conspiracy theorist?)


I think the conspiracies are real, not theories. So that just makes us realists!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Feinstein is pushing the torture report because she is trying to save her position as chair of the committee. It is a dem. action. Feinstein says it is good to do this for the sake of transparency. The ultimate bushbash!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Feinstein is pushing the torture report because she is trying to save her position as chair of the committee. It is a dem. action. Feinstein says it is good to do this for the sake of transparency. The ultimate bushbash!


Then I take it you would prefer that the facts about US torture remain secret?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Not a correct inference. I am just confused why now? But is Obama any better with all his drone attacks? I don't imagine they are good for anyone's health.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Have we always used torture? Did I just not know?


Of course we have, whether it has been made pubic or not. It's something humans have a long tradition (if that's the right word) of doing.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Not a correct inference. I am just confused why now? But is Obama any better with all his drone attacks? I don't imagine they are good for anyone's health.


Always the question, "What about Obama's..."

This has NOTHING to do with Obama's actions which can be discussed independently on their own merits - or demerits - as the case may be. One does not justify the other.

As for timing? I don't care. The information needs to be revealed and if Bush/Cheney were guilty of authorizing torture they should be held accountable and yes, bashed for it. Bush has gone on record calling the torturers "patriots." Sick and disgusting, not to mention criminal. Calling it "enhanced interrogation" is nothing more than trying to water down the reality and scrambling the message with semantics as a distraction.

Torture is wrong. We must hold those who did it accountable. Timing? When is a good time, then?

Laws about torture:

Among these laws are the War Crimes Act of 1996 (US), Torture Victim Protection Act of 1991 (US), Federal Anti-Torture Statute (US), United Nations Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions, which the Bush administration infamously said did not apply to individuals captured during the War on Terror because they were "enemy combatants" and not prisoners of war.

Notice the use of semantics to try to justify illegal acts.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Of course we have, whether it has been made pubic or not. It's something humans have a long tradition (if that's the right word) of doing.


Exactly.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I could agree with you. I don't think that all happenings are being reported. All of our media is owned by just five corporations. The very few who control those corporations, decide what we will hear, and what we will not. Those very few, not only manipulate the people but manipulate those in government. Wars are fought for their purposes. A LOT goes on, that we never hear about. When we do hear about something, it's because they want us to hear it. It causes me to wonder why they wanted us to hear about this. I think that the reason is to manipulate people's thinking. They can put all of the horrors of war onto bush to make people think that era of war is over. Give the people a place to put their blame and outrage. All the while, the war to conquer the middle east continues. bush and cheney are too high up on the totem pole of power. They're not worried about anything. They're untouchables.
> 
> Terrible things are still going on but now they're being done by our proxies, al qaida and isis. We cannot ignore the fact that our government created and supported these groups! I don't believe that our government created these groups to beat the bad guys, but then these groups turned against us. I believe that the CIA controls these groups and much of what goes on in the world, and I believe that they are evil! They are controlled by no one! Not by congress, not by the senate and not by presidents (except maybe bush, because he used to run it).
> 
> I believe that if they're allowing us to hear something, it's because they're using it to manipulate us. The atrocities didn't stop with the end of one adminstration and the beginning of another. They're still going on! The might of the United States military could have eliminated al qaida and isis any time, if they wanted to. It's about toppling these middle east regimes, and installing leaders who will cooperate. The US is not fighting a defensive war. It's an offensive war to take control if the middle east. It's about oil, money and power! All while trying to manipulate the American people into thinking they're the good guys. I don't buy it! The war should end! The people need to wake up to why the war is being fought, and demand that it end. The people also need to demand equal access for the independent media, if we ever want to hear truth!


Knitter from Nebraska

Is there ever anything positive in your outlook? Yikes, you live a sorry existence. There is plenty information we can gather, unfortunately some folks are stuck, forgot how to push a button or turn a knob.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know what the point is. I only know that there is one. Perhaps it is their intent to incite acts of terrorism. After all, that would seem to validate their excuses for the war. The people must believe that this is a war on terror, not a war to conquer the middle east.


Knitter from Nebraska

Have you been in a long term Coma? We and the World have known about this for years, just getting more details now. ".....incite acts of terrorism"?. What horrid thoughts you are carrying around with you. The only one I would know not to be too unhappy about such activities would be Cheney.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't conclude if torture is human nature or not. I do believe we must fight such base instincts with every bit of energy in our nature.



DGreen said:


> I wish I could agree with you, but I believe humankind has proved repeatedly that they will, and do torture and inflict suffering on other human beings in any number of horrible and inventive ways. It's a constant throughout history.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You did sound that way to me...too strident....too black and white. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am really surprised that you agreed with me. I fully expected to be called a conspiracy theorist.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You could be right about a new civil rights movement. According to this article, a black militant group is planning to shoot on duty police officers.
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-nypd-warned-militant-group-plans-shoot-cops-article-1.2036616


Please. forgive my cynicism, but the New York gang potential action doesn't surprise me. I think there are African-Americans for whom the 60s movement did nothing. They're tired of being second class citizens, and targets for trigger-happy police to practice on. If there really is a new Civil Rights Movement growing right now it will be formed around the "no justice, no peace" idea and "by any means necessary" as Malcolm X said.

Malcolm X was, IMO, the voice for the poor African-Americans and, also, he was assassinated to shut him up after he returned from his haj to Mecca. He came back with a very altered attitude about white people. Elijah Mohammed, leader of the Nation of Islam, didn't want him around after it was revealed that EM had fathered quite a few children on his secretaries. EM was assumed to have ordered Malcolm's assassination and Louis Farrakhan carried out the planning, but no one who could prove that has ever come forward.

Personally, I believe both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr were assassinated because they were and would continue having great success in the battle for African-American civil rights. All too many powers were so threatened by them, they had to be silenced. I wonder sometimes what might have been accomplished in the 60s if they had both lived.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Then I take it you would prefer that the facts about US torture remain secret?


Secret or not secret. The point is that we should not be allowing our government to act in this way! For years, they've deceived us into thinking that we were better, that we didn't use torture. The fact that it's coming out that one administration has used torture, doesn't give me comfort that the others haven't. All of this is indicative of how far out of control, our government has become. They do not represent us! At some point, the people will need to take back their power!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Not a correct inference. I am just confused why now? But is Obama any better with all his drone attacks? I don't imagine they are good for anyone's health.


I don't know the reason for "why now?". But you can be sure there is one.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Always the question, "What about Obama's..."
> 
> This has NOTHING to do with Obama's actions which can be discussed independently on their own merits - or demerits - as the case may be. One does not justify the other.
> 
> ...


IMO, presidents are figureheads. The real power lies behind the scenes.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.

2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?

3. If I'm right about a new civil rights movement taking shape, I believe it will bloody and very, very angry.



Poor Purl said:


> Protests so bad they chased you that far? They must have been terrible. The Vietnam War protests in this city of 8 million were peaceful, for the most part, with a lot, a whole lot of people standing still, I think. And Country Joe and the Fish singing.
> 
> Our worst protests were the ones during the Republican convention in 2004. Thousands of people arrested for exercising their free speech, and the city had to pay huge amounts to the ones arrested. It was bad, and it was embarrassing, esp. since it was held here only to say
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> 
> Is there ever anything positive in your outlook? Yikes, you live a sorry existence. There is plenty information we can gather, unfortunately some folks are stuck, forgot how to push a button or turn a knob.


Seriously?!? You assume that you know anything about my life based upon political discourse? My life revolves around my family! I'm a very happy person who expends most of my efforts toward, doing for others. I don't live in a sorry existence. I've helped many people and have had a full and rewarding life! I see and talk to my children and grandchildren several times a week. They want to be around me, even my daughters in law. My sons hug me and tell me that they love me. They call me to ask my opinion because they respect me to give them an honest answer. My daughters in law call me to do things with them or call just to talk. My daughter loves me and likes to hang out with me. When I go into her place of employment, she wraps her arms around me and tells everyone, "This is my mom"! My grandsons love to come to my house because I play with them and spoil them. I make them the center of my existence. And that's what I think is important. Nothing else! Family is everything! I have the world! Everything else is just food for the mind.

However, that doesn't mean that I'm ignorant and blind to what's going on in the world. Caring about my children and grandchildren means caring about their futures. If we all walk blindly through life, there won't be much left for future generations. It's time for everyone to wake up and identify the problems, so that we can work on fixing them. I actually have a positive attitude, because I think that if we can all see the truth, we can change it!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I can't conclude if torture is human nature or not. I do believe we must fight such base instincts with every bit of energy in our nature.


I agree!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> You did sound that way to me...too strident....too black and white. IMHO


When it comes to right and wrong, I see things in black and white. But when it comes to seeing the world, my views are very complex, with many shades of gray and many levels.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Please. forgive my cynicism, but the New York gang potential action doesn't surprise me. I think there are African-Americans for whom the 60s movement did nothing. They're tired of being second class citizens, and targets for trigger-happy police to practice on. If there really is a new Civil Rights Movement growing right now it will be formed around the "no justice, no peace" idea and "by any means necessary" as Malcolm X said.
> 
> Malcolm X was, IMO, the voice for the poor African-Americans and, also, he was assassinated to shut him up after he returned from his haj to Mecca. He came back with a very altered attitude about white people. Elijah Mohammed, leader of the Nation of Islam, didn't want him around after it was revealed that EM had fathered quite a few children on his secretaries. EM was assumed to have ordered Malcolm's assassination and Louis Farrakhan carried out the planning, but no one who could prove that has ever come forward.
> 
> Personally, I believe both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr were assassinated because they were and would continue having great success in the battle for African-American civil rights. All too many powers were so threatened by them, they had to be silenced. I wonder sometimes what might have been accomplished in the 60s if they had both lived.


I agree with you, except that when tensions are high, anything can be the trigger. I especially agree with your comments about Martin Luther King Jr. Had he lived, we'd have seen more change. I don't think that Malcolm X would have been as successful. Violence begets violence (and resentment). He would have widened the gulf between blacks and whites. You can use force to take what you think belongs to you. Or you can use your brain to convince people that it should have been yours, all along. IMO, that's what King was doing.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> 
> 3. If I'm right about a new civil rights movement taking shape, I believe it will bloody and very, very angry.


I hope you're wrong. I know that there are those who espouse a bloody battle for equal rights. But I don't think that it could ever be successful. I think the key lies in opening the eyes of the people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Not a correct inference. I am just confused why now? But is Obama any better with all his drone attacks? I don't imagine they are good for anyone's health.


There's a difference between long drawn-out torture and a quick kill. Neither is to our credit, but torture destroys the torturer as well as the tortured (torturee?).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> 
> 3. If I'm right about a new civil rights movement taking shape, I believe it will bloody and very, very angry.


Of course I remember the 1968 riots. In fact, 1968 was the worst year I can remember living through.

I don't want to think about a new bloody revolt today, but I have to admit you're right.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a difference between long drawn-out torture and a quick kill. Neither is to our credit, but torture destroys the torturer as well as the tortured (torturee?).


But don't the survivors and victims of torture have a drawn-out torture of memories and lives forever ruined?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you, except that when tensions are high, anything can be the trigger. I especially agree with your comments about Martin Luther King Jr. Had he lived, we'd have seen more change. I don't think that Malcolm X would have been as successful. Violence begets violence (and resentment). He would have widened the gulf between blacks and whites. You can use force to take what you think belongs to you. Or you can use your brain to convince people that it should have been yours, all along. IMO, that's what King was doing.


I agree - Malcolm X seemed extremely bitter and even though it was justified, I don't think he would have been good for the civil rights movement. MLK was more like Ghandi and look what he accomplished. jmo


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's sad to consider. Where are our leaders now? I feel we've lost our moral compass.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Please. forgive my cynicism, but the New York gang potential action doesn't surprise me. I think there are African-Americans for whom the 60s movement did nothing. They're tired of being second class citizens, and targets for trigger-happy police to practice on. If there really is a new Civil Rights Movement growing right now it will be formed around the "no justice, no peace" idea and "by any means necessary" as Malcolm X said.
> 
> Malcolm X was, IMO, the voice for the poor African-Americans and, also, he was assassinated to shut him up after he returned from his haj to Mecca. He came back with a very altered attitude about white people. Elijah Mohammed, leader of the Nation of Islam, didn't want him around after it was revealed that EM had fathered quite a few children on his secretaries. EM was assumed to have ordered Malcolm's assassination and Louis Farrakhan carried out the planning, but no one who could prove that has ever come forward.
> 
> Personally, I believe both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr were assassinated because they were and would continue having great success in the battle for African-American civil rights. All too many powers were so threatened by them, they had to be silenced. I wonder sometimes what might have been accomplished in the 60s if they had both lived.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> 
> 3. If I'm right about a new civil rights movement taking shape, I believe it will bloody and very, very angry.


I think you're right.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what makes it interesting to hear your views.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> When it comes to right and wrong, I see things in black and white. But when it comes to seeing the world, my views are very complex, with many shades of gray and many levels.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with what was said about Malcomn X. His moral compass made him a target. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you, except that when tensions are high, anything can be the trigger. I especially agree with your comments about Martin Luther King Jr. Had he lived, we'd have seen more change. I don't think that Malcolm X would have been as successful. Violence begets violence (and resentment). He would have widened the gulf between blacks and whites. You can use force to take what you think belongs to you. Or you can use your brain to convince people that it should have been yours, all along. IMO, that's what King was doing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The massacre at Kent State in 1970 wounded me too. I started believing anything could happen.



Poor Purl said:


> Of course I remember the 1968 riots. In fact, 1968 was the worst year I can remember living through.
> 
> I don't want to think about a new bloody revolt today, but I have to admit you're right.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, presidents are figureheads. The real power lies behind the scenes.


He can't do anything if people are taking it upon themselves to avoid telling him what is happening. It appears as if Bush was not told for quite some time that they were using torture. I wonder about Cheney - one person says he was aware others say he wasn't completely aware. I have no respect for him - never have had and I would not be surprised if he deliberately kept the information from the President. I don't care for Bush but I just can't see him agreeing to the type of torture that is being discussed. jmo 
once again.

I don't know, but I hope my country is not doing any torture. I honestly believe they aren't but we are not in the same place nor the same situation. I still can't say that there is any right to lowering ourselves to behave like others - We have always stood for the 'good'. America has always been considered a country with high standards. Actually that wasn't a very intelligent statement -- we don't have a place where terrorists or supposed terrorists are imprisoned.

So it is likely a moot point.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam wrote:
1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.

2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?

3. If I'm right about a new civil rights movement taking shape, I believe it will bloody and very, very angry.
Of course I remember the 1968 riots. In fact, 1968 was the worst year I can remember living through. 


Poor Purl wrote:
I don't want to think about a new bloody revolt today, but I have to admit you're right.

Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.  Andre Gide

Susan take you papa go back home. - Country Bumpkins


Cheeky Blighter wrote: 1968 was a turning point in my life too. I was leaving home for college that fall. With the riots and the assassinations too it woke a lot of people up that things were changing and it wasn't clear if it would be for the better or worse.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> But don't the survivors and victims of torture have a drawn-out torture of memories and lives forever ruined?


I thought I implied that torture was worse than drones.

Still, maybe life is better than no-life. John McCain was apparently tortured in Vietnam, and he managed to make a career for himself.

But he spoke on the subject today, and he wants the report made public.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/09/politics/mccain-lauds-release-terror-report/index.html


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you, except that when tensions are high, anything can be the trigger. I especially agree with your comments about Martin Luther King Jr. Had he lived, we'd have seen more change. I don't think that Malcolm X would have been as successful. Violence begets violence (and resentment). He would have widened the gulf between blacks and whites. You can use force to take what you think belongs to you. Or you can use your brain to convince people that it should have been yours, all along. IMO, that's what King was doing.


Malcom X came back from his haj to Mecca a very changed man. He had a very few months to attempt to do anything to reflect that change. Personally, I think he was the greater man, compared to MLK, and it would take me several pages of this topic to explain why that's my opinion.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I could agree with you. I don't think that all happenings are being reported. All of our media is owned by just five corporations. The very few who control those corporations, decide what we will hear, and what we will not. Those very few, not only manipulate the people but manipulate those in government. Wars are fought for their purposes. A LOT goes on, that we never hear about. When we do hear about something, it's because they want us to hear it. It causes me to wonder why they wanted us to hear about this. I think that the reason is to manipulate people's thinking. They can put all of the horrors of war onto bush to make people think that era of war is over. Give the people a place to put their blame and outrage. All the while, the war to conquer the middle east continues. bush and cheney are too high up on the totem pole of power. They're not worried about anything. They're untouchables.
> 
> Terrible things are still going on but now they're being done by our proxies, al qaida and isis. We cannot ignore the fact that our government created and supported these groups! I don't believe that our government created these groups to beat the bad guys, but then these groups turned against us. I believe that the CIA controls these groups and much of what goes on in the world, and I believe that they are evil! They are controlled by no one! Not by congress, not by the senate and not by presidents (except maybe bush, because he used to run it).
> 
> I believe that if they're allowing us to hear something, it's because they're using it to manipulate us. The atrocities didn't stop with the end of one adminstration and the beginning of another. They're still going on! The might of the United States military could have eliminated al qaida and isis any time, if they wanted to. It's about toppling these middle east regimes, and installing leaders who will cooperate. The US is not fighting a defensive war. It's an offensive war to take control if the middle east. It's about oil, money and power! All while trying to manipulate the American people into thinking they're the good guys. I don't buy it! The war should end! The people need to wake up to why the war is being fought, and demand that it end. The people also need to demand equal access for the independent media, if we ever want to hear truth!


Independent media is independent because it is paid for with donations. You can access Democracy Now as a reliable source.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> ...


And then Nixon was elected. At the time, I thought that was the worst that could happen. Now I know it wasn't.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hope you're wrong. I know that there are those who espouse a bloody battle for equal rights. But I don't think that it could ever be successful. I think the key lies in opening the eyes of the people.


 If there is a new civil rights movement, it will be bloody. We're seeing the dress rehearsals in the response to what happened in Ferguson, etc. The eyes of the people who will lead a new civil rights movement have been open for a long time and they see what most middle class white people don't. Wait and see. I think time will prove me right.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> That's what makes it interesting to hear your views.


Thank You!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> He can't do anything if people are taking it upon themselves to avoid telling him what is happening. It appears as if Bush was not told for quite some time that they were using torture. I wonder about Cheney - one person says he was aware others say he wasn't completely aware. I have no respect for him - never have had and I would not be surprised if he deliberately kept the information from the President. I don't care for Bush but I just can't see him agreeing to the type of torture that is being discussed. jmo
> once again.
> 
> I don't know, but I hope my country is not doing any torture. I honestly believe they aren't but we are not in the same place nor the same situation. I still can't say that there is any right to lowering ourselves to behave like others - We have always stood for the 'good'. America has always been considered a country with high standards. Actually that wasn't a very intelligent statement -- we don't have a place where terrorists or supposed terrorists are imprisoned.
> ...


I think that presidents are often kept in the dark as to what the CIA is doing. But I have a hard time believing that bush was kept in the dark. His daddy used to be the head of the CIA. I also think that cheney was a spook (CIA), but that's just my opinion.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I agree with what was said about Malcomn X. His moral compass made him a target. IMHO


Malcolm X returned from his pilgrimage to Mecca a very changed person, with a very changed moral compass. He also wasn't about to keep his mouth shut about Elijah Mohammed's "activities". So, with a slight nod of his head, and a little remark about Malcolm being a bit troublesome, Elijah Mohammed set in motion the process that led to Malcolm's assassination. Why would anyone in this country want to shut up the most effective voice of the large underclass of African-Americans? Don't make me count the ways. You should already have a long, long list.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> ...


I was 13 and was unaware of anything going on at the time (except what outfit I'd wear the next day). It wasn't until many years later that I started reading and learning about the Viet Nam war. Last night, I'd asked if our country had been torturing people for years. I'd forgotten all I'd read about the Viet Nam war. It saddens me so. I'd always believed that we were different, better. Ignorance WAS bliss.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> cess If there is a new civil rights movement, it will be bloody. We're seeing the dress rehearsals in the response to what happened in Ferguson, etc. The eyes of the people who will lead a new civil rights movement have been open for a long time and they see what most middle class white people don't. Wait and see. I think time will prove me right.


There will be no bloody civil rights movement. With the release of the Torture Papers, the media is saying we are in greater peril so some sort of standing army will be formed. There is then a body in place to prevent the people from getting too out of hand. Mix in a little legal marijuana and nothing happens.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Malcom X came back from his haj to Mecca a very changed man. He had a very few months to attempt to do anything to reflect that change. Personally, I think he was the greater man, compared to MLK, and it would take me several pages of this topic to explain why that's my opinion.


Well, I guess I have more to learn about Malcolm X. Maybe, I'll get around to it. I've been so swamped lately.

After the holidays, I'll be helping my dil with laundry, cooking, cleaning and watching Max. She's pregnant with quads and has a hard time carrying babies. I'm going to make sure that all she has to do, is lie around. She'll be 9 weeks on Thursday and so far, all's good. The next several months will be long and scary. And busy!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Independent media is independent because it is paid for with donations. You can access Democracy Now as a reliable source.


I'll check it out. Thanks!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> cess If there is a new civil rights movement, it will be bloody. We're seeing the dress rehearsals in the response to what happened in Ferguson, etc. The eyes of the people who will lead a new civil rights movement have been open for a long time and they see what most middle class white people don't. Wait and see. I think time will prove me right.


Where do you get your info?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> There will be no bloody civil rights movement. With the release of the Torture Papers, the media is saying we are in greater peril so some sort of standing army will be formed. There is then a body in place to prevent the people from getting too out of hand. Mix in a little legal marijuana and nothing happens.


It seems we're both a bit cynical. I don't think there will be a big standing army or enough marijuana to stop a group of oeople who have every reason to scream quiet.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It seems we're both a bit cynical. I don't think there will be a big standing army or enough marijuana to stop a group of oeople who have every reason to scream quiet.


You mentioned blood shed. It will not happen with the way the police can militarize so quickly. '68 was almost 47 years ago. Crowd management has been very refined in the ensuing years.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that presidents are often kept in the dark as to what the CIA is doing. But I have a hard time believing that bush was kept in the dark. His daddy used to be the head of the CIA. I also think that cheney was a spook (CIA), but that's just my opinion.


I agree - I have a hard time believing Bush wasn't in the loop. However that has been mentioned today on the news. I don't doubt that Cheney was in on it from the beginning -- I am just not as sure about Bush. I think he was undermined by Cheney and Cheney was really the power. jmo.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I guess I have more to learn about Malcolm X. Maybe, I'll get around to it. I've been so swamped lately.
> 
> After the holidays, I'll be helping my dil with laundry, cooking, cleaning and watching Max. She's pregnant with quads and has a hard time carrying babies. I'm going to make sure that all she has to do, is lie around. She'll be 9 weeks on Thursday and so far, all's good. The next several months will be long and scary. And busy!


Of course, I hope all goes well with your DIL. I'll bet you'll be busier than either one of us can imagine. Read about what you care about, if you have any free time to read. I think you'll be busy knitting instead.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> You mentioned blood shed. It will not happen with the way the police can militarize so quickly. '68 was almost 47 years ago. Crowd management has been very refined in the ensuing years.


I'm really sorry, but just because 1968 was 47 years ago doesn't mean there can't be bloodshed. It seems to me that the power of 47 years of waiting may be the equivalent of rocket fuel.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Of course, I hope all goes well with your DIL. I'll bet you'll be busier than either one of us can imagine. Read about what you care about, if you have any free time to read. I think you'll be busy knitting instead.


I'm hoping I'll have some time to knit. Max will keep me pretty busy. :-D

Thank you for your well wishes!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> There will be no bloody civil rights movement. With the release of the Torture Papers, the media is saying we are in greater peril so some sort of standing army will be formed. There is then a body in place to prevent the people from getting too out of hand. Mix in a little legal marijuana and nothing happens.


The media are not known for their ability to predict the future. When Wikileaks published a pile of secret stuff, the media predicted that a lot of people would be killed when their secrets came out, but it didn't happen. McCain pointed out today that the people who would come after us because of torture already know about it. I think he's right. He's going through one of his saner episodes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm really sorry, but just because 1968 was 47 years ago doesn't mean there can't be bloodshed. It seems to me that the power of 47 years of waiting may be the equivalent of rocket fuel.


That's how it seems to me, too. The worse the protesters are treated, the harder they'll fight back, and given the climate, police won't go so far as to kill them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's how it seems to me, too. The worse the protesters are treated, the harder they'll fight back, and given the climate, police won't go so far as to kill them.


What is different this time from '67 is the amount of white people, Asian people,& Latino people protesting alongside of the black people. We as a whole are saying that this cannot keep happening.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We lost all moral ground by breaking the Geneva Convention. Right and wrong doesn't change with the times. IMO



Designer1234 said:


> He can't do anything if people are taking it upon themselves to avoid telling him what is happening. It appears as if Bush was not told for quite some time that they were using torture. I wonder about Cheney - one person says he was aware others say he wasn't completely aware. I have no respect for him - never have had and I would not be surprised if he deliberately kept the information from the President. I don't care for Bush but I just can't see him agreeing to the type of torture that is being discussed. jmo
> once again.
> 
> I don't know, but I hope my country is not doing any torture. I honestly believe they aren't but we are not in the same place nor the same situation. I still can't say that there is any right to lowering ourselves to behave like others - We have always stood for the 'good'. America has always been considered a country with high standards. Actually that wasn't a very intelligent statement -- we don't have a place where terrorists or supposed terrorists are imprisoned.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> 1. Yes, the protests in Berkeley were that bad.
> 
> 2. Remember the riots outside the venue for the 1968 Republican Convention?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you. For those interested in an easy study, the movie Malcolm X is a good start. Check the library. It came out a while ago.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Malcom X came back from his haj to Mecca a very changed man. He had a very few months to attempt to do anything to reflect that change. Personally, I think he was the greater man, compared to MLK, and it would take me several pages of this topic to explain why that's my opinion.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And then Nixon was elected. At the time, I thought that was the worst that could happen. Now I know it wasn't.


I never ever imagined the world would change as it has. I feel like Rip Van Winkle.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that presidents are often kept in the dark as to what the CIA is doing. But I have a hard time believing that bush was kept in the dark. His daddy used to be the head of the CIA. I also think that cheney was a spook (CIA), but that's just my opinion.


I feel the same. Public persona and character are two very different things.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What is different this time from '67 is the amount of white people, Asian people,& Latino people protesting alongside of the black people. We as a whole are saying that this cannot keep happening.


Sorry, Patty, I don't think that's true. There were a lot of white people marching alongside the black people the first time around. The NAACP was organized by black and white working together, and I think many other groups were as well. And white people were killed because they worked with black people on civil rights.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> There will be no bloody civil rights movement. With the release of the Torture Papers, the media is saying we are in greater peril so some sort of standing army will be formed. There is then a body in place to prevent the people from getting too out of hand. Mix in a little legal marijuana and nothing happens.


Not everyone is smoking dope.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Best of luck to all.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I guess I have more to learn about Malcolm X. Maybe, I'll get around to it. I've been so swamped lately.
> 
> After the holidays, I'll be helping my dil with laundry, cooking, cleaning and watching Max. She's pregnant with quads and has a hard time carrying babies. I'm going to make sure that all she has to do, is lie around. She'll be 9 weeks on Thursday and so far, all's good. The next several months will be long and scary. And busy!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMO the battle won't just be in the streets. They have learned to use media, social and otherwise. Guerrilla warfare is more effective than protest marches. Just a thought.



SQM said:


> You mentioned blood shed. It will not happen with the way the police can militarize so quickly. '68 was almost 47 years ago. Crowd management has been very refined in the ensuing years.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I guess I have more to learn about Malcolm X. Maybe, I'll get around to it. I've been so swamped lately.
> 
> After the holidays, I'll be helping my dil with laundry, cooking, cleaning and watching Max. She's pregnant with quads and has a hard time carrying babies. I'm going to make sure that all she has to do, is lie around. She'll be 9 weeks on Thursday and so far, all's good. The next several months will be long and scary. And busy!


Knitter from Nebraska
good thoughts are going her way so that all goes well.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's how it seems to me, too. The worse the protesters are treated, the harder they'll fight back, and given the climate, police won't go so far as to kill them.


There are many whites on the protest marches. Many people are questioning why so many citizens shot dead by police. Minor, if any, 'crimes' involved. No official action taken. All the dead are black. The officers are white. This is beyond random probability.

Protesters are in the streets now and it's cold in most places. What will spring be like?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you, Patty.



BrattyPatty said:


> What is different this time from '67 is the amount of white people, Asian people,& Latino people protesting alongside of the black people. We as a whole are saying that this cannot keep happening.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very true, Purl, as far as it goes. The action didn't start to occur until whites etc joined in. Civil Rights amendment was signed by LBJ. Important changes took place. Segregation ruled unconstitutional. IMO the root causes and attitudes went into deep hiding. It's this that is the target now. And the tactics will change.



Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, Patty, I don't think that's true. There were a lot of white people marching alongside the black people the first time around. The NAACP was organized by black and white working together, and I think many other groups were as well. And white people were killed because they worked with black people on civil rights.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Feinstein is pushing the torture report because she is trying to save her position as chair of the committee. It is a dem. action. Feinstein says it is good to do this for the sake of transparency. The ultimate bushbash!


Revealing de-classified information is common isn't it? At least it should be. Anyway, to my eternal shame, Australia was one of the countries which facilitated the torture for the CIA. Good one Australia.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hope you're wrong. I know that there are those who espouse a bloody battle for equal rights. But I don't think that it could ever be successful. I think the key lies in opening the eyes of the people.


The American Civil War was successful for many and blood was not only shed, it was poured like wine. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the current mood regarding the inequality between the white and black American people spills into a war. Whether it's bloody or not is beside the point. All people have a line not to be crossed and the black people of America have had their line not only crossed, it's been decimated. I understand their fury and where it may lead.

Australia has the potential for the same sentiments to bubble over. I take nothing for granted.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The media are not known for their ability to predict the future. When Wikileaks published a pile of secret stuff, the media predicted that a lot of people would be killed when their secrets came out, but it didn't happen. McCain pointed out today that the people who would come after us because of torture already know about it. I think he's right. He's going through one of his saner episodes.


I agree, Purl, particularly about this being one of McCain's saner episodes. On so many issues he is somewhere off in outer space, but he's spot on with this one.

Not only is the media often wrong in their predictions, so are politicians. I hope there is no uptick in terrorist attacks over this, but instead of blaming the RELEASE of this information for any escalation that may happen, how about placing the blame where it belongs? On the perpetrators. Their actions were brutal, immoral and illegal. Bush should be tried as the war criminal he is, right along with Cheney. Keeping this matter secret would open the door for more of the same and that can't be tolerated.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - I have a hard time believing Bush wasn't in the loop. However that has been mentioned today on the news. I don't doubt that Cheney was in on it from the beginning -- I am just not as sure about Bush. I think he was undermined by Cheney and Cheney was really the power. jmo.


Cheney was the real power behind that presidency in all matters.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

From Faux News' Andrea Tantaro on torture revelations:

"The United States of America is awesome, we are awesome," she said. "Weve closed the book on it, and weve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how were not awesome." 
"They apologized for this country, they dont like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again," Tantaros continued.

**********

Apologizing for torturing people causes our enemies to "laugh at us?" 

Honey, they're not laughing. And neither is the American public.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Best of luck to all.


Thanks, dame!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> good thoughts are going her way so that all goes well.


Thank You, Huck!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> There are many whites on the protest marches. Many people are questioning why so many citizens shot dead by police. Minor, if any, 'crimes' involved. No official action taken. All the dead are black. The officers are white. This is beyond random probability.
> 
> Protesters are in the streets now and it's cold in most places. What will spring be like?


Awareness among whites is starting to take place. People from all walks of life are becoming outraged. That has to make a difference. The police are killing our children! But I'm afraid that once the media drops the issue, everyone will forget about it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Revealing de-classified information is common isn't it? At least it should be. Anyway, to my eternal shame, Australia was one of the countries which facilitated the torture for the CIA. Good one Australia.


What's uncommon, is declassifying the information in the first place. So many truths never see the light of day. We feel the shame as well! Our government is supposed to be representing us! They're not! This is not what the people want! Not for all the protection in the world!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> From Faux News' Andrea Tantaro on torture revelations:
> 
> "The United States of America is awesome, we are awesome," she said. "Weve closed the book on it, and weve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how were not awesome."
> "They apologized for this country, they dont like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again," Tantaros continued.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let's help this stay in the limelight. Keep talking about it. Write a letter to the editor. Social media is perfect for this. And march if you can. Post any other ideas.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Awareness among whites is starting to take place. People from all walks of life are becoming outraged. That has to make a difference. The police are killing our children! But I'm afraid that once the media drops the issue, everyone will forget about it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I agree, Purl, particularly about this being one of McCain's saner episodes. On so many issues he is somewhere off in outer space, but he's spot on with this one.
> 
> Not only is the media often wrong in their predictions, so are politicians. I hope there is no uptick in terrorist attacks over this, but instead of blaming the RELEASE of this information for any escalation that may happen, how about placing the blame where it belongs? On the perpetrators. Their actions were brutal, immoral and illegal. Bush should be tried as the war criminal he is, right along with Cheney. Keeping this matter secret would open the door for more of the same and that can't be tolerated.


Governments very handiy place blame anywhere they want. But it's never those to blame, who suffer the consequences. It's always the innocents that get caught up in terrorism. The fact that al qaida was already aware of the torture, doesn't protect us from the islamist fanatics seeking revenge. Unfortunately, those responsible will never pay for their actions (at least, not on this earth). It will be innocent men, women and children, going about their daily business, that will pay.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> From Faux News' Andrea Tantaro on torture revelations:
> 
> "The United States of America is awesome, we are awesome," she said. "Weve closed the book on it, and weve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how were not awesome."
> "They apologized for this country, they dont like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again," Tantaros continued.
> ...


Some people are just stupid!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Let's help this stay in the limelight. Keep talking about it. Write a letter to the editor. Social media is perfect for this. And march if you can. Post any other ideas.


I agree! Most of the time, when the police kill an unarmed black person, that knowledge stays local. Through the use of social media, people need to spread the word, make others aware of it because the media isn't usually focused on it. When people start becoming aware of how big the problem is, they'll pay more attention and demand change. ALL of us should care that the police are killing unarmed people!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! Most of the time, when the police kill an unarmed black person, that knowledge stays local. Through the use of social media, people need to spread the word, make others aware of it because the media isn't usually focused on it. When people start becoming aware of how big the problem is, they'll pay more attention and demand change. ALL of us should care that the police are killing unarmed people!


I think it has started already.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I think it has started already.


 :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Another reason I have no respect for most conservative lawmakers - they have no souls. John McCain is a sterling example to us all regarding the actions of the Bush administration and torture. From PBS:

Democrats, and those like Republican Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who dont support the harsh tactics of the Bush administration CIA, made moral arguments. Conservatives who support them or were involved continued to come back to a legal defense.

But calling the Senate report hooey yesterday, former Vice President Dick Cheney came back to this in an interview with the New York Times: The program was authorized. The agency did not want to proceed without authorization, and it was also reviewed legally by the Justice Department before they undertook the program.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm with you. For those interested in an easy study, the movie Malcolm X is a good start. Check the library. It came out a while ago.


His autobiography is a pretty quick read, too, and pretty informative.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Where do you get your info?


I get some of my information from the media which has covered the reaction to Ferguson's Grand Jury ruling. I also live north of a large city that has a disproportionally large population of poor African-Americans. There have been riots there every night since the Ferguson Grand Juryt 's ruling was released. I'm also very familiar with the part of that city that is essentially a ghetto filled with poor African-Americans who suffer from a great deal of crime, poor schools, gang violence, drug use and open selling and using of crack.

What's been happening since the ruling of Ferguson's Grand Jury and what I've seen (a lot) of the 60s Civil Rights Movement are forming my opinion that a new and bloody Civil Rights Movement is brewing. There has been a lot of change as a result of what happened in the 60s, but not enough of that change has trickled down to the large under-class of poor African-Ame ricans. My father was involved in the civil rights activities after he came home form WWII. It seems like I've always been aware of that movement.

In 1960 I saw my first demonstrations by African-Americans when there was a boycott of businesses in my home town that wouldn't hire blacks. My dad was also very active in union organizing after WWII, so I knew hat a picket line meant. It meant you couldn't patronize any of the businesses where they were picket lines out front.

I grew up near the city where the Black Panthers were formed. I lived in the same town where the Free Speech Movement happened I lived in the middle of an area where the demonstrations against the so-called Viet Nam War were the biggest demonstrations in this country.

Much of my "information" comes from personal experience which is harder to edit than a TV news program. It's pretty influential when there's a 7pm-7am curfew where you live, along with bunch of National Guardsmen and b


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Arrrgghhh!! I keep getting multiple posts when one may very well be too many.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Arrgghh!!! Again!!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> The American Civil War was successful for many and blood was not only shed, it was poured like wine. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the current mood regarding the inequality between the white and black American people spills into a war. Whether it's bloody or not is beside the point. All people have a line not to be crossed and the black people of America have had their line not only crossed, it's been decimated. I understand their fury and where it may lead.
> 
> Australia has the potential for the same sentiments to bubble over. I take nothing for granted.


I can't really remark about what might happen in your country, but I think you're right on the money abut everything else you've said. :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> From Faux News' Andrea Tantaro on torture revelations:
> 
> "The United States of America is awesome, we are awesome," she said. "Weve closed the book on it, and weve stopped doing it. And the reason they want to have this discussion is not to show how awesome we are. This administration wants to have this discussion to show us how were not awesome."
> "They apologized for this country, they dont like this country, they want us to look bad. And all this does is have our enemies laughing at us, that we are having this debate again," Tantaros continued.
> ...


This seems to be a RW tactic: whatever you've done, never apologize, just don't get caught.

And, of course, there's that teenage use of the word "awesome." Don't show that the US is "awesome"; just keep repeating it. Nobody outside will believe you, but who cares? Nobody outside is so awesome.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

This is part of the transcript from the Australian Broadcasting Commission's 7.30 report last night, Wednesday 10/12/2014. It mentions the Australian Navy's refusal to train with the American Navy on detention operations. I can post the full transcript if the link does not work.

Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 10/12/2014
Reporter: Leigh Sales
CIA 'enhanced interrogation techniques' run against American values and law and require immediate action, says former top US Navy lawyer Alberto Mora who's opposed the use of torture.
The program redefined American fundamental values, redefined American constitutional - and violated American constitutional principles, redefined and violated international human rights principles. And of course the affect this had on our war on terror was massive. When our allies found out more fully what we were doing, they distanced themselves from military intelligence and law enforcement activities in the war on terror in ways that hampered our effective prosecution of the war. For example, my understanding is that the Australian Navy refused to train with the American Navy on detention operations. And of course, if you don't train together, you can't fight together. To have the Australian nation and military separate itself from the American effort in the war on terror is a massive strategic failure.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2014/s4146418.htm


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> This is part of the transcript from the Australian Broadcasting Commission's 7.30 report last night, Wednesday 10/12/2014. It mentions the Australian Navy's refusal to train with the American Navy on detention operations. I can post the full transcript if the link does not work.
> 
> Australian Broadcasting Corporation
> Broadcast: 10/12/2014
> ...


Thanks for posting that link. Excellent piece.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there. 
I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there.
> I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


I saw that article as well. I have sent an e-mail to the White House, urging prosecution. To acknowledge these crimes is not sufficient. The perpetrators should be identified, charged and punished the same as a normal citizen would be for such acts. Including Bush, Cheney and whoever in the Justice Department changed the name from "torture" to "enhanced interrogation," giving them a bogus illusion of legality. In my mind, even though they were supposedly within the law to order such horrors, we have every right to expect our leaders to have some semblance of a moral compass. We all know these acts were wrong - and they did, too.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Another reason I have no respect for most conservative lawmakers - they have no souls. John McCain is a sterling example to us all regarding the actions of the Bush administration and torture. From PBS:
> 
> Democrats, and those like Republican Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who dont support the harsh tactics of the Bush administration CIA, made moral arguments. Conservatives who support them or were involved continued to come back to a legal defense.
> 
> But calling the Senate report hooey yesterday, former Vice President Dick Cheney came back to this in an interview with the New York Times: The program was authorized. The agency did not want to proceed without authorization, and it was also reviewed legally by the Justice Department before they undertook the program.


You speak of "most" conservative lawmakers? There are 234 republicans in congress and 45 in the senate. I'd be willing to bet that you know very little about "most" of them. I'd bet that you only know what you've heard from the media. And yet, you think "most" have no souls. That's quite a blanket statement, for people you know nothing about. If I chose the worst of the democrats and suggested that "most" of them were comparable, that wouldn't be a fair statement either. In most cases, its only the egregious that gets reported on. In order to find common ground and get our country back on track, we shouldn't look to disparage groups of people. Each should be judged on their own words and deeds.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You speak of "most" conservative lawmakers? There are 234 republicans in congress and 45 in the senate. I'd be willing to bet that you know very little about "most" of them. I'd bet that you only know what you've heard from the media. And yet, you think "most" have no souls. That's quite a blanket statement, for people you know nothing about. If I chose the worst of the democrats and suggested that "most" of them were comparable, that wouldn't be a fair statement either. In most cases, its only the egregious that gets reported on. In order to find common ground and get our country back on track, we shouldn't look to disparage groups of people. Each should be judged on their own words and deeds.


You are right, of course.

Trouble is, they seem to act as a unit, toe the party line, and vote along party lines most of the time. And the only conservative who has come out against the torture program is John McCain.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I get some of my information from the media which has covered the reaction to Ferguson's Grand Jury ruling. I also live north of a large city that has a disproportionally large population of poor African-Americans. There have been riots there every night since the Ferguson Grand Juryt 's ruling was released. I'm also very familiar with the part of that city that is essentially a ghetto filled with poor African-Americans who suffer from a great deal of crime, poor schools, gang violence, drug use and open selling and using of crack.
> 
> What's been happening since the ruling of Ferguson's Grand Jury and what I've seen (a lot) of the 60s Civil Rights Movement are forming my opinion that a new and bloody Civil Rights Movement is brewing. There has been a lot of change as a result of what happened in the 60s, but not enough of that change has trickled down to the large under-class of poor African-Ame ricans. My father was involved in the civil rights activities after he came home form WWII. It seems like I've always been aware of that movement.
> 
> ...


Thanks for responding. This isn't exactly what I was referring to. I was wondering where you got your information on what the future of the civil rights movement would look like. You sounded as if you knew someone within the movement, and had information that wasn't available to the rest of us. I can only speculate, based upon the things that I've read. I was just wondering if you had more reliable sources.

Do you actually live in an area with a 7-7 curfew? That would put you right in the thick of things. I would not stand for a curfew! The government does not have the right to restrict the movement of it's citizens! That alone, is worth protesting!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Arrgghh!!! Again!!


Ahahahaha! You must have a very touchy keyboard.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there.
> I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


I think they should be prosecuted! I read somewhere that bush doesn't travel to some countries because he would be arrested and prosecuted for war crimes. I think that most of us recognize that what they did was criminal, even if the lawyers said it wasn't!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> You are right, of course.
> 
> Trouble is, they seem to act as a unit, toe the party line, and vote along party lines most of the time. And the only conservative who has come out against the torture program is John McCain.


The dems do the same. Everything has become so partisan.

I can't believe that McCain is looking like a rose for stating the obvious. He's a sleazeball in every other way!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The dems do the same. Everything has become so partisan.
> 
> I can't believe that McCain is looking like a rose for stating the obvious. He's a sleazeball in every other way!


I agree. He's from Arizona, so I'm pretty familiar with his antics. I even sat through one of his speeches at a graduation once. Ugh. On this topic, though, he states the moral case eloquently.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I saw that article as well. I have sent an e-mail to the White House, urging prosecution. To acknowledge these crimes is not sufficient. The perpetrators should be identified, charged and punished the same as a normal citizen would be for such acts. Including Bush, Cheney and whoever in the Justice Department changed the name from "torture" to "enhanced interrogation," giving them a bogus illusion of legality. In my mind, even though they were supposedly within the law to order such horrors, we have every right to expect our leaders to have some semblance of a moral compass. We all know these acts were wrong - and they did, too.


John Choon Yoo (born July 10, 1967) is an American attorney, law professor, and author. He served as a political appointee, the Deputy Assistant U.S. Attorney General in the Office of Legal Counsel, Department of Justice (OLC), during the George W. Bush administration. He is best known for his opinions concerning the Geneva Conventions that legitimized the War on Terror by the United States. He also authored the so-called Torture Memos, which concerned the use of what the Central Intelligence Agency called enhanced interrogation techniques including waterboarding.

In 2009, two days after taking office, President Barack Obama in Executive Order 13491 repudiated and revoked all legal guidance on interrogation authored by Yoo and his successors in the Office of Legal Counsel between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009. At the time of the Obama administration, he continues to be a Professor of Law at the University of California, Berkeley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_interrogation_techniques


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I agree. He's from Arizona, so I'm pretty familiar with his antics. I even sat through one of his speeches at a graduation once. Ugh. On this topic, though, he states the moral case eloquently.


He has been there , So he knows first hand. Too bad other Repubs don't agree.

I don't agree that it should have been kept secret as so many state. I think the fact that the US admits it is so unusual and it shows that there are people who know it is wrong and who will admit they were wrong and that it isn't the standard they want to live by. It diminishes the US when the Senators from the Right insist that it was right to torture and refuse to admit that it was wrong.

The US has always stood for Freedom and certainly not torture - they have always thought it immoral. But now suddenly it is okay to torture their prisoners. It is hard to understand. jmo.

McCain is speaking right now and I agree with everything he says, although I have not been a fan of his. It is horrifying.

Just one more mess -- so sad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I saw that article as well. I have sent an e-mail to the White House, urging prosecution. To acknowledge these crimes is not sufficient. The perpetrators should be identified, charged and punished the same as a normal citizen would be for such acts. Including Bush, Cheney and whoever in the Justice Department changed the name from "torture" to "enhanced interrogation," giving them a bogus illusion of legality. In my mind, even though they were supposedly within the law to order such horrors, we have every right to expect our leaders to have some semblance of a moral compass. We all know these acts were wrong - and they did, too.


Yes--and let's not leave out the fiends who actually carried out the torture. The details emerging are absolutely sickening. This calls for the mass prosecution of everyone involved--from the Big Guys (Bush and Cheney) who authorized it to the folks in charge of hosing down the rooms where the "enhanced interrogation" took place.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--and let's not leave out the fiends who actually carried out the torture. The details emerging are absolutely sickening. This calls for the mass prosecution of everyone involved--from the Big Guys (Bush and Cheney) who authorized it to the folks in charge of hosing down the rooms where the "enhanced interrogation" took place.


Right, right, and right. (As in correct)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Eve. It makes me ashamed of my country but I think it's important to hear what others think of us.



EveMCooke said:


> This is part of the transcript from the Australian Broadcasting Commission's 7.30 report last night, Wednesday 10/12/2014. It mentions the Australian Navy's refusal to train with the American Navy on detention operations. I can post the full transcript if the link does not work.
> 
> Australian Broadcasting Corporation
> Broadcast: 10/12/2014
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It hasn't been discussed. I'm afraid I'm too stubborn to talk about issuing them pardons for crimes no one seems inclined to admit. Gerald Ford I'm not.



cookiequeen said:


> My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there.
> I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I saw that article as well. I have sent an e-mail to the White House, urging prosecution. To acknowledge these crimes is not sufficient. The perpetrators should be identified, charged and punished the same as a normal citizen would be for such acts. Including Bush, Cheney and whoever in the Justice Department changed the name from "torture" to "enhanced interrogation," giving them a bogus illusion of legality. In my mind, even though they were supposedly within the law to order such horrors, we have every right to expect our leaders to have some semblance of a moral compass. We all know these acts were wrong - and they did, too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do we really want to go there? Investigating all? Personally I'm afraid to look.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You speak of "most" conservative lawmakers? There are 234 republicans in congress and 45 in the senate. I'd be willing to bet that you know very little about "most" of them. I'd bet that you only know what you've heard from the media. And yet, you think "most" have no souls. That's quite a blanket statement, for people you know nothing about. If I chose the worst of the democrats and suggested that "most" of them were comparable, that wouldn't be a fair statement either. In most cases, its only the egregious that gets reported on. In order to find common ground and get our country back on track, we shouldn't look to disparage groups of people. Each should be judged on their own words and deeds.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--and let's not leave out the fiends who actually carried out the torture. The details emerging are absolutely sickening. This calls for the mass prosecution of everyone involved--from the Big Guys (Bush and Cheney) who authorized it to the folks in charge of hosing down the rooms where the "enhanced interrogation" took place.


susanmos2000
I gladly underwrite prosecution of anyone having had anything to do with it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> It hasn't been discussed. I'm afraid I'm too stubborn to talk about issuing them pardons for crimes no one seems inclined to admit. Gerald Ford I'm not.


It's an interesting strategy, though.

Since no one seems to want to pursue criminal charges, if Obama and the Justice Department does nothing they will be seen as unwilling to take the political risk of prosecuting the offenders.

By pardoning them, he would be sending a clear message that there was wrongdoing.

I'm still with you, Dame. By not prosecuting the crimes all the way to the top, we are giving tacit approval.

Remember Abu Greib? Only the guys at the bottom were punished, not those responsible for overseeing the prison. In this case it seems someone knew what they were doing by paying hired fiends to do the dirty work - not the US military. I think Cheney's fingerprints are all over it. There would have been outrage by the military for being ordered to torture. They know what that can mean for any troops who fall prisoner.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there.
> I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


News here this morning states that the Obama Administration will not prosecute those involved in CIA torture believing that the report having been published is enough.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I still cannot figure out the motive in disclosing all this. It is common knowledge, every country does it and it is nothing new in warfare. Nu?

What about the cyber-attack on (senior moment) that film company that made the anti- North Korean film? Since that company relies so heavily on digital and the digital damage was so extensive, it might be out of business. Will this be a new form of war?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--and let's not leave out the fiends who actually carried out the torture. The details emerging are absolutely sickening. This calls for the mass prosecution of everyone involved--from the Big Guys (Bush and Cheney) who authorized it to the folks in charge of hosing down the rooms where the "enhanced interrogation" took place.


An Australian national, David Hicks, was held at Guantanamo from 2001 - 2007 and was tortured relentlessly. He was asked yesterday about the American Soldiers who tortured him and whether he could find it in his heart to forgive them. He stated that 2 American soldiers have contacted him since his release, wanting to apologise. He stated that while he would be meeting with one of the soldiers, he could never forgive those whose orders he was made to follow.

This link explains his experience:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I still cannot figure out the motive in disclosing all this. It is common knowledge, every country does it and it is nothing new in warfare. Nu?
> 
> What about the cyber-attack on (senior moment) that film company that made the anti- North Korean film? Since that company relies so heavily on digital and the digital damage was so extensive, it might be out of business. Will this be a new form of war?


North Korea wants it to be.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> An Australian national, David Hicks, was held at Guantanamo from 2001 - 2007 and was tortured relentlessly. He was asked yesterday about the American Soldiers who tortured him and whether he could find it in his heart to forgive them. He stated that 2 American soldiers have contacted him since his release, wanting to apologise. He stated that while he would be meeting with one of the soldiers, he could never forgive those whose orders he was made to follow.
> 
> This link explains his experience:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks


Makes me sick to read it. Sick and ashamed.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> North Korea wants it to be.


I remembered finally that it is Sony. If cyber-war can take out a huge corporation, I assume it can hack a government, also.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I remembered finally that it is Sony. If cyber-war can take out a huge corporation, I assume it can hack a government, also.


And infrastructure. Very worrisome.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your comments trouble me. "Everyone's doing it?" " Common knowledge?" " Nothing new?"

It all seems to be excusing the actions.



SQM said:


> I still cannot figure out the motive in disclosing all this. It is common knowledge, every country does it and it is nothing new in warfare. Nu?
> 
> What about the cyber-attack on (senior moment) that film company that made the anti- North Korean film? Since that company relies so heavily on digital and the digital damage was so extensive, it might be out of business. Will this be a new form of war?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--and let's not leave out the fiends who actually carried out the torture. The details emerging are absolutely sickening. This calls for the mass prosecution of everyone involved--from the Big Guys (Bush and Cheney) who authorized it to the folks in charge of hosing down the rooms where the "enhanced interrogation" took place.


The ones who deserve serious punishment are the doctors (psychiatrists and psychologists) who helped out and even came up with new and exciting torture techniques.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You speak of "most" conservative lawmakers? There are 234 republicans in congress and 45 in the senate. I'd be willing to bet that you know very little about "most" of them. I'd bet that you only know what you've heard from the media. And yet, you think "most" have no souls. That's quite a blanket statement, for people you know nothing about. If I chose the worst of the democrats and suggested that "most" of them were comparable, that wouldn't be a fair statement either. In most cases, its only the egregious that gets reported on. In order to find common ground and get our country back on track, we shouldn't look to disparage groups of people. Each should be judged on their own words and deeds.


It's enough to know how they legislated: what bills they sponsored, which way they voted. After all, that's what they're paid for. I think you will find that there were very few Republican votes that didn't land exactly on the party line. Unfortunately, the Democrats have never been that cohesive.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The dems do the same. Everything has become so partisan.
> 
> I can't believe that McCain is looking like a rose for stating the obvious. He's a sleazeball in every other way!


No, the dems don't all line up.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Your comments trouble me. "Everyone's doing it?" " Common knowledge?" " Nothing new?"
> 
> It all seems to be excusing the actions.


Not excusing just being a realist. Learned on the news this evening that there were torture centers used by the CIA in many countries. I just cannot pretend that I did not know what had happened, is happening and will happen during "wartime".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Arrgghh!!! Again!!


Maid, did you see the piece in today's New York Times about your home town? Front page.

*Its Not the Old Days, but Berkeley Sees a New Spark of Protest *

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/berkeley-protests.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Not excusing just being a realist. Learned on the news this evening that there were torture centers used by the CIA in many countries. I just cannot pretend that I did not know what had happened, is happening and will happen during "wartime".


Except that it wasn't done by Americans. During WWII, enemy soldiers were told that if they were going to be captured, make sure it was the Americans who captured them. The POWs we captured had an easier time.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Except that it wasn't done by Americans. During WWII, enemy soldiers were told that if they were going to be captured, make sure it was the Americans who captured them. The POWs we captured had an easier time.


I am quite thrilled to blame this current mess on Bush, et al. What a legacy that guy has left!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maid, did you see the piece in today's New York Times about your home town? Front page.
> 
> *Its Not the Old Days, but Berkeley Sees a New Spark of Protest *
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/berkeley-protests.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Idealism is not dead.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We fed prisoners and didn't work them to death. As a result, captured Americans generally received better treatment when they were captured. At least that's what I've read.



Poor Purl said:


> Except that it wasn't done by Americans. During WWII, enemy soldiers were told that if they were going to be captured, make sure it was the Americans who captured them. The POWs we captured had an easier time.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No, the dems don't all line up.


Oh, Puleeze! Don't even TRY to tell me that! How do you think we got obamacare?!?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me, it's not just a matter of blame anymore. Time has past. Authority has changed.

I want to know what actually happened and why it happened rather than self-serving press releases and spin. Then I want to see people held accountable for their actions.



SQM said:


> I am quite thrilled to blame this current mess on Bush, et al. What a legacy that guy has left!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what's wrong with Obamacare? It has helped many people. Why are people still attacking it? Clue: It's not the program itself.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Puleeze! Don't even TRY to tell me that! How do you think we got obamacare?!?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And what's wrong with Obamacare? It has helped many people. Why are people still attacking it? Clue: It's not the program itself.


The comment was in reference to partisanism.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry. I misunderstood.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The comment was in reference to partisanism.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> To me, it's not just a matter of blame anymore. Time has past. Authority has changed.
> 
> I want to know what actually happened and why it happened rather than self-serving press releases and spin. Then I want to see people held accountable for their actions.


This link takes you to the actual report on CIA torture:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2014/dec/09/-sp-torture-report-cia-senate-intelligence-committee


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you ( I think I'll have nightmares.)

I wonder, was it fear of a group frenzy that caused people to agree to this?

Ineffective procedures. Inadequate record-keeping. Lack of medical facilities. Failure to train and hold accountable those under their command. Outsourcing interrogation to contractors. CIA lying to Congress, the President and the people of the USA.

And that's only part of what they found.

Sounds earth-shaking to me. Wonder what or if anything will change.



Wombatnomore said:


> This link takes you to the actual report on CIA torture:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2014/dec/09/-sp-torture-report-cia-senate-intelligence-committee


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Not excusing just being a realist. Learned on the news this evening that there were torture centers used by the CIA in many countries. I just cannot pretend that I did not know what had happened, is happening and will happen during "wartime".


In part I agree with you, SQM--doubtless the CIA has always been well versed in the techniques of torture and has used them quite extensively.

But this latest report sends chills down my spine for a very different reason. Hearing about old-fashioned torture techniques--ripping out fingernails and breaking enemies on the rack--is enough to make anyone squirm, and the CIA is very aware of this. And it bothers me to no end that their solution is to design tortures (having a menstruating woman sit on a prisoner's lap, tossing pigs into enemy combatants' coffins, ripping up and trampling pages of the Koran, "rectal rehydration"
) that promote indifference, even laughter and mockery, with John Q. Public. Let's face it--it's not just the prisoners who are being psychologically manipulated.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right, of course. It makes us all less human. That's why we squirm just to hear of it.



susanmos2000 said:


> In part I agree with you, SQM--doubtless the CIA has always been well versed in the techniques of torture and has used them quite extensively.
> 
> But this latest report sends chills down my spine for a very different reason. Hearing about old-fashioned torture techniques--ripping out fingernails and breaking enemies on the rack--is enough to make anyone squirm, and the CIA is very aware of this. And it bothers me to no end that their solution is to design tortures (having a menstruating woman sit on a prisoner's lap, tossing pigs into enemy combatants' coffins, ripping up and trampling pages of the Koran, "rectal rehydration"
> ) that promote indifference, even laughter and mockery, with John Q. Public. Let's face it--it's not just the prisoners who are being psychologically manipulated.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Mos - you are sounding like Nebs and me. Of course we are being psychologically manipulated into complacency. Doctors and shrinks were hired to devise these tortures. And what about the "outsourcing" of torturing? Were RFPs sent out?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm going to change the subject for a minute. I was just reading mollyannhad's update on her struggle with cancer. She can no longer work and her husband is between jobs. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-304514-1.html
There won't be any gifts for Christmas, just making do, is a struggle. She's a pattern designer with a Ravelry shop and an Etsy shop. I'm going to go on her Ravelry site and buy one of her patterns (I just haven't decided which one, yet). I'm going to recommend that ALL of us buy even one pattern and pass the word along, through pm. If we use pm to pass the word, it will create a wonderful Christmas blessing for a very kind hearted person. We can keep it a secret because she'd never read this thread. Haha! Please help me pass the word. And please buy a pattern!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Puleeze! Don't even TRY to tell me that! How do you think we got obamacare?!?


There was a lot of negotiation around that. One reason we had to involve all the insurance companies was the senator from Aetna, Joe Lieberman; the chair of the appropriate Senate committee, Max Baucus, also insisted on changes before he'd vote for it. They're not together on gun control; they differed on Defense of Marriage Act; Mary Landrieu, who lost anyway, differed with them all on the XL pipeline.

The Repubs hear what the Tea Party wants and all shout in unison "Me too!" McCain speaking out against torture was the first time in at least ten years that one Repub differed from the rest. You say you think both parties are the same, but they're not. Maybe it's because they're beholden to different interests, but they are very, very different.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The comment was in reference to partisanism.


Maybe the partisanship was due to the obvious need for such a law.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thank you ( I think I'll have nightmares.)
> 
> I wonder, was it fear of a group frenzy that caused people to agree to this?
> 
> ...


It amazed me when the Republican (Senator?) yesterday defended it. He said that it did a lot of good and was necessary. What is happening with the world? He said that 
it was not torture.

If it wasn't torture, what was it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thank you ( I think I'll have nightmares.)
> 
> I wonder, was it fear of a group frenzy that caused people to agree to this?
> 
> ...


Maybe it's time to shut down the CIA. The agency culture has been badly corrupted. Leon Panetta was one of the good guys, but he's been corrupted, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In part I agree with you, SQM--doubtless the CIA has always been well versed in the techniques of torture and has used them quite extensively.
> 
> But this latest report sends chills down my spine for a very different reason. Hearing about old-fashioned torture techniques--ripping out fingernails and breaking enemies on the rack--is enough to make anyone squirm, and the CIA is very aware of this. And it bothers me to no end that their solution is to design tortures (having a menstruating woman sit on a prisoner's lap, tossing pigs into enemy combatants' coffins, ripping up and trampling pages of the Koran, "rectal rehydration"
> ) that promote indifference, even laughter and mockery, with John Q. Public. Let's face it--it's not just the prisoners who are being psychologically manipulated.


You're right. Rumsfeld used to talk about torture as if they were just slapping prisoners in the face. Waterboarding was a joke until a couple of right wingers had it done to themselves


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There was a lot of negotiation around that. One reason we had to involve all the insurance companies was the senator from Aetna, Joe Lieberman; the chair of the appropriate Senate committee, Max Baucus, also insisted on changes before he'd vote for it. They're not together on gun control; they differed on Defense of Marriage Act; Mary Landrieu, who lost anyway, differed with them all on the XL pipeline.
> 
> The Repubs hear what the Tea Party wants and all shout in unison "Me too!" McCain speaking out against torture was the first time in at least ten years that one Repub differed from the rest. You say you think both parties are the same, but they're not. Maybe it's because they're beholden to different interests, but they are very, very different.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Puleeze! Don't even TRY to tell me that! How do you think we got obamacare?!?


Neb: We don't even all line up on here! I think you are wrong there. They tried to get a conversation going about health care if I remember correctly. But because of Obama being President those on the Republican side refused to talk. What about the plan discussed by Mitt Romney? It wasn't that different than the one that was passed.

Ladies correct me if I am wrong. I understood from reading here and the news that that was part of both platforms??

I disagree completely that we are like most of the Republicans. You are the only one who will have a conversation with us. The others come here and say the same thing over and over and over. I don't see any 'discussion' with any of them. On our thread there is discussion all the time and we don't always agree.

I watch the news and read the papers and I am in agreement. MCCain used to have his own opinions but not lately until this. He KNOWS what torture does to a person. That is why he stood against those who say it is perfectly okay.

You don't always agree with us and we don't always agree with each other -- because we have all evolved over the years and each has their own view of the way things are going.

If the Republicans had been willing to get involved with the discussion about the ACA it might have been more to your liking. But because Obama wanted it- and they had already said they would fight everything he tried to do, it was put through. At least he tried. Someone had to try, too many people were unable to get even basic meds etc. JMO

I know I will get attacked for the above, but it is my opinion and I will stand by it.

It had to start somewhere!

Well, ladies, I am heading out to a concert that my gd is in. Will be back later. Have fun everyone!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I still cannot figure out the motive in disclosing all this. It is common knowledge, every country does it and it is nothing new in warfare. Nu?
> 
> What about the cyber-attack on (senior moment) that film company that made the anti- North Korean film? Since that company relies so heavily on digital and the digital damage was so extensive, it might be out of business. Will this be a new form of war?


SQM
I think the motive is to prevent such dastardly deeds in the future. I am glad for bringing it to light. If we want other countries to treat our citizens with morality, dignity and respect, we need to start at home. Now let us bring those responsible for the Crimes into Court for appropriate punishment. Just exposing them is not sufficient. As we can see again and again, Cheney would do it all over again and we cannot let that happen. That Man is a Monster and unfortunately he is not alone and we need to keep others like him in check.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb: We don't even all line up on here. I think you are wrong there. They tried to get a conversation going about health care if I remember correctly. But because of Obama being President those on the Republican side refused to talk. What about the plan discussed by Mitt Romney? It wasn't that different than the one that was passed.
> 
> Ladies correct me if I am wrong. I understood from reading here and the news that that was part of both platforms??
> 
> I do seem to remember that at some time Romney talked about a health care plan which was much the same.


Designer1234
you are correct.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. Rumsfeld used to talk about torture as if they were just slapping prisoners in the face. Waterboarding was a joke until a couple of right wingers had it done to themselves


Poor Purl
some Right Wing Clown said that Waterboarding is not torture. Really? Anyone thinking it being a little inconvenience should have to undergo it. Let us start with Napoleon Rumsfeld and continue from there.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm going to change the subject for a minute. I was just reading mollyannhad's update on her struggle with cancer. She can no longer work and her husband is between jobs. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-304514-1.html
> There won't be any gifts for Christmas, just making do, is a struggle. She's a pattern designer with a Ravelry shop and an Etsy shop. I'm going to go on her Ravelry site and buy one of her patterns (I just haven't decided which one, yet). I'm going to recommend that ALL of us buy even one pattern and pass the word along, through pm. If we use pm to pass the word, it will create a wonderful Christmas blessing for a very kind hearted person. We can keep it a secret because she'd never read this thread. Haha! Please help me pass the word. And please buy a pattern!


Thanks for the heads up. I just bought a pattern and I know I'm going to enjoy making the Cranberry Lace Scarf project. Such a small thing to do - hope it makes the holiday a little better for a brave and upbeat lady.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There was a lot of negotiation around that. One reason we had to involve all the insurance companies was the senator from Aetna, Joe Lieberman; the chair of the appropriate Senate committee, Max Baucus, also insisted on changes before he'd vote for it. They're not together on gun control; they differed on Defense of Marriage Act; Mary Landrieu, who lost anyway, differed with them all on the XL pipeline.
> 
> The Repubs hear what the Tea Party wants and all shout in unison "Me too!" McCain speaking out against torture was the first time in at least ten years that one Repub differed from the rest. You say you think both parties are the same, but they're not. Maybe it's because they're beholden to different interests, but they are very, very different.


The negotiations were BS! All for show! The dems toed the line! The deciding vote was placed by Nebraska's senator, Ben Nelson. He KNEW that his constituents were against it! Overwhelmingly against it! He used the "cornhusker kickback" as an excuse to vote for it. It was only an excuse! He KNEW the Nebraskans didn't want special favors either! They rejected his kickback and they rejected HIM! He resigned and will never be a part of Nebraska politics again! Democratic pressure was placed on him and he gave in. He toed the party line.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I think the motive is to prevent such dastardly deeds in the future. I am glad for bringing it to light. If we want other countries to treat our citizens with morality, dignity and respect, we need to start at home. Now let us bring those responsible for the Crimes into Court for appropriate punishment. Just exposing them is not sufficient. As we can see again and again, Cheney would do it all over again and we cannot let that happen. That Man is a Monster and unfortunately he is not alone and we need to keep others like him in check.


I agree Sloth. I think it will be ignored though as many of the Repubs seem to think it was not torture.

It seems so impossible to me as an outsider and one who has always admired the US for having integrity - that there are many many US citizens who think it is perfectly okay to torture people. Once again, the world is watching the Major country in the world who has always had integrity in most peoples eyes, and who has always stood for the good, to be arguing about what is torture and what isn't and to admit that some think it is okay. With the Republicans taking over I doubt that anything at all will even be considered.

I do think that by admitting it - people will realize that basically it ISN'T something the US people are proud of. And that will certainly show that there are people who are dead against this type of treatment. Also, how many of those who are in prison in Cuba, were innocent? We will never know. How many were water boarded and tortured who had no knowledge of anything that they were asked. It was a terrible time for the US and that is understood. However, it is a shame.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe it's time to shut down the CIA. The agency culture has been badly corrupted. Leon Panetta was one of the good guys, but he's been corrupted, too.


Good luck shutting down the CIA! They have more power than any of us could imagine! They have their fingers in everything, everywhere!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb: We don't even all line up on here! I think you are wrong there. They tried to get a conversation going about health care if I remember correctly. But because of Obama being President those on the Republican side refused to talk. What about the plan discussed by Mitt Romney? It wasn't that different than the one that was passed.
> 
> Ladies correct me if I am wrong. I understood from reading here and the news that that was part of both platforms??
> 
> ...


What some people REFUSE to understand is that when it comes to obamacare, the republicans are representing those who put them in office! There is a very large number of people in this country who DONT WANT obamacare! When it comes to obamacare, they DONT WANT compromise. The republicans aren't trying to be mean and obstinate. They are representing real people! Those people deserve a voice!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I just bought a pattern and I know I'm going to enjoy making the Cranberry Lace Scarf project. Such a small thing to do - hope it makes the holiday a little better for a brave and upbeat lady.


Thanks, Green. I'm going to get the "Courage Scarf", but I'm gonna wait til my hubby gets home because he has a PayPal account, and I don't. Please pass the word.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The negotiations were BS! All for show! The dems toed the line! The deciding vote was placed by Nebraska's senator, Ben Nelson. He KNEW that his constituents were against it! Overwhelmingly against it! He used the "cornhusker kickback" as an excuse to vote for it. It was only an excuse! He KNEW the Nebraskans didn't want special favors either! They rejected his kickback and they rejected HIM! He resigned and will never be a part of Nebraska politics again! Democratic pressure was placed on him and he gave in. He toed the party line.


You are quoting one example. How do you know all the negotiations were BS. You made statements that are unprovable. Certainly there are disagreements and certainly not all agreed. He won the election, he passed the ACA - nothing he did would have been approved by the Republicans. You know that. If they wanted to change it why didn't they discuss changes with him. They refused to even consider ANYTHING he tried to do. they announced that before he was even elected.

I am not defending any of his policies, except to say that I believe it is a start for the US. Coming from a place where health care is taken for granted, I know what it has meant to my family.

I think, if the Right had been willing to work with him there would probably or certainly possibly have been something more to their liking. They chose not to and fought him at ever single step since he was elected.

You are so definite about everything. Some things are open for discussion. Some things are not black and white Neb.

As far as toeing the party line, what about the Republicans?If any group of people toe the party line it is the Repubs. They never disagree with each other publicly. They are blinded by their dislike of the President. If some had not toed the party line the ACA might have been more to their liking. They said from the beginning that they would never ever agree with anything he wanted to pass.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree Sloth. I think it will be ignored though as many of the Repubs seem to think it was not torture.
> 
> It seems so impossible to me as an outsider and one who has always admired the US for having integrity - that there are many many US citizens who think it is perfectly okay to torture people. Once again, the world is watching the Major country in the world who has always had integrity in most peoples eyes, and who has always stood for the good, to be arguing about what is torture and what isn't and to admit that some think it is okay. With the Republicans taking over I doubt that anything at all will even be considered.
> 
> I do think that by admitting it - people will realize that basically it ISN'T something the US people are proud of. And that will certainly show that there are people who are dead against this type of treatment. Also, how many of those who are in prison in Cuba, were innocent? We will never know. How many were water boarded and tortured who had no knowledge of anything that they were asked. It was a terrible time for the US and that is understood. However, it is a shame.


"Many of the repubs seem to think it was not torture"? Really? How many? I've only heard of a couple. I think that you've heard of a couple, and then extrapolated that into " many". I don't think it's many. I think it's a few vocal ones.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> You are quoting one example. How do you know all the negotiations were BS. You made statements that are unprovable. Certainly there are disagreements and certainly not all agreed. He won the election, he passed the ACA - nothing he did would have been approved by the Republicans. You know that. If they wanted to change it why didn't they discuss changes with him. They refused to even consider ANYTHING he tried to do. they announced that before he was even elected.
> 
> I am not defending any of his policies, except to say that I believe it is a start for the US. Coming from a place where health care is taken for granted, I know what it has meant to my family.
> 
> ...


I'm not quoting "one" example. I'm quoting THE example. It is fact that the Nebraska senator cast the deciding vote on obamacare. My statements are very provable! When the senator returned to Nebraska, he couldn't even go out in public without being booed! Google it! It's the truth! Nebraskans were and are, overwhelmingly against obamacare! They're not closed minded republicans, which is why they voted for the moderate democrat in the first place (I even voted for him). But because of his betrayal, it's not likely to happen again! We want our voices heard! We deserve to be represented! Our government was not designed to rule and do what they want to do, or what they think they should do. It was set up to represent the people. ALL of them! Conservative republicans deserve a voice just as much as liberal democrats!

PS Of course I'm definite about what I believe in. Aren't you? I wouldn't be wasting my time, if I weren't!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for responding. This isn't exactly what I was referring to. I was wondering where you got your information on what the future of the civil rights movement would look like. You sounded as if you knew someone within the movement, and had information that wasn't available to the rest of us. I can only speculate, based upon the things that I've read. I was just wondering if you had more reliable sources.
> 
> Do you actually live in an area with a 7-7 curfew? That would put you right in the thick of things. I would not stand for a curfew! The government does not have the right to restrict the movement of it's citizens! That alone, is worth protesting!


I thought I explained my reasons for thinking a new and bloody Civil Rights Movement is forming. Read my post again. I'm using my extensive personal experience and media information to form an opinion. I don't have anything that can even vaguely be called insider information. I grew up in Berkeley, CA. In the 1960s and early 70s, it was a hotbed of Civil Rights demonstrations and huge, frequent and violent demonstrations against the illegal war in Viet Nam. I participated in these demonstrations until they became violent. Fine by me to use civil disobedience and peacefully protest an issue, but when the violence comes in, I'm out.

I thought I was using the past tense when I spoke about living in a place where there was a 7pm-7am curfew. I'm sorry for my bad grammar. There was a plot of ground in Berkeley owned by the University of California at Berkeley. In the spring of 1969 a bunch of people planted grass and trees and flowers and named it People's Park. Ronald Reagan, then Governor of CA and head of the UC System's Board of Regents and whose hatred of Berkeley was legendary, decided to express his personal opinions about Berkeley through official means. Along with Catherine Hearst, member of the Board of Regents, wife of William Randolph Hearst, mother of Patty Hearst and another person who despised Berkeley, he influenced the Board of Regents to vote to tear the park down.

The resulting riots were so violent that the National Guard was called in and a 7pm to 7am curfew was put in place for a couple weeks. It makes quite an impression on one when the National Guard occupies the town you grew up in and are living in. Even worse fo0r me, because I'm a 4th generation Berkeleyan. My great-grandfather was a volunteer fireman (1892-1906) in Berkeley. My grandfather was a police officer (1915-1917) and fire fighter (1917-1952) in Berkeley. Anyway, this resulted in huge riots. On the most violent day of the demonstrations one person, James Rector, was murdered by the National guard. 32 other people were wounded. I still consider Reagan to have condoned murder, violence and military rule in Berkeley for his own stupid and entirely personal opinions. Nobody mentioned any of that at his funeral. You would have thought he was the most angelic person in the world if all you knew about him came from his eulogies.

Obviously, what I've said here is blatant personal opinion. The facts are also the facts. For three weeks the meetings of Berkeley's Council were televised. All one had to do was venture downtown to see the National Guard at work. Yes, indeed, I'm still hot about all that. If I've sounded rude here, please know I'm not trying to treat you rudely.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> My goofy iPad won't let me post a link today, but there was a piece in the NYT the other day in which Anthony Romero, director of the ACLU, is encouraging President Obama to issue a pardon for Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld for war crimes. Although, of course, they've never been charged with anything, this would mean that we recognize that crimes were committed. I think he has something there.
> I haven't been here much, so forgive me if this has already been discussed.


Too bad they haven't been accused by and brought to the Hague to be tried for war crimes...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maid, did you see the piece in today's New York Times about your home town? Front page.
> 
> *Its Not the Old Days, but Berkeley Sees a New Spark of Protest *
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/us/berkeley-protests.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


Seems a bit biased and inaccurate about the past. Suffice it to say that I have been thoroughly dismayed and angry about the current protests. See my post to KFN above.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> some Right Wing Clown said that Waterboarding is not torture. Really? Anyone thinking it being a little inconvenience should have to undergo it. Let us start with Napoleon Rumsfeld and continue from there.


Calling it "waterboarding" makes it sound like some fun pastime like waterskiing. Think of it as "tubbing" as it used to be called and maybe it won't sound so nice.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Calling it "waterboarding" makes it sound like some fun pastime like waterskiing. Think of it as "tubbing" as it used to be called and maybe it won't sound so nice.


Or the most accurate word: Torture


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> some Right Wing Clown said that Waterboarding is not torture. Really? Anyone thinking it being a little inconvenience should have to undergo it. Let us start with Napoleon Rumsfeld and continue from there.


All the RW Clowns denied it was torture.Then some guy with a radio show decided to prove it was no big deal. In the middle of his experience, he had to call a stop because it was torturing him.






http://thinkprogress.org/media/2009/05/27/42540/hannity-mancow-waterboarding/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Green. I'm going to get the "Courage Scarf", but I'm gonna wait til my hubby gets home because he has a PayPal account, and I don't. Please pass the word.


I'm with you, Nebraska. I just purchased the Blue Frost Lace Scarf--challenging, but oh so beautiful!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The negotiations were BS! All for show! The dems toed the line! The deciding vote was placed by Nebraska's senator, Ben Nelson. He KNEW that his constituents were against it! Overwhelmingly against it! He used the "cornhusker kickback" as an excuse to vote for it. It was only an excuse! He KNEW the Nebraskans didn't want special favors either! They rejected his kickback and they rejected HIM! He resigned and will never be a part of Nebraska politics again! Democratic pressure was placed on him and he gave in. He toed the party line.


So one scared Dem gave in even though he was against it? This is your idea of proof? As Nebraska goes, so goes the nation?

Sometimes a senator has to do what's right. And if his constituents are overwhelmingly against the ACA, I hope they don't make use of it and expand their ERs accordingly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good luck shutting down the CIA! They have more power than any of us could imagine! They have their fingers in everything, everywhere!


Obviously. I should have attached a sarcasm warning.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You are quoting one example. How do you know all the negotiations were BS. You made statements that are unprovable. Certainly there are disagreements and certainly not all agreed. He won the election, he passed the ACA - nothing he did would have been approved by the Republicans. You know that. If they wanted to change it why didn't they discuss changes with him. They refused to even consider ANYTHING he tried to do. they announced that before he was even elected.
> 
> I am not defending any of his policies, except to say that I believe it is a start for the US. Coming from a place where health care is taken for granted, I know what it has meant to my family.
> 
> ...


Nebraska has strong beliefs. I think they have little to do with the truth, but I think of the Bible in the same way, so who am I to judge?

But thanks for your support.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> All the RW Clowns denied it was torture.Then some guy with a radio show decided to prove it was no big deal. In the middle of his experience, he had to call a stop because it was torturing him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*Heehee* I shouldn't laugh but "We're gonna do it on the count of five, OK? One, two--I lied!" [water starts pouring down]


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> "Many of the repubs seem to think it was not torture"? Really? How many? I've only heard of a couple. I think that you've heard of a couple, and then extrapolated that into " many". I don't think it's many. I think it's a few vocal ones.


I think the many just didn't know one way or the other and chose to follow the loudmouths, the ones in the administration or on Faux News. Or simply said nothing on the subject.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Or the most accurate word: Torture


Indeed. A form of torture in which the victim who is restrained with hands behind his back and on his knees has his head shoved into a tub of water almost long enough to drown. Calling it waterboarding seems to me to be part of a campaign to make it seem that instead of torturing anyone, they undergo "enhanced interrogation". Makes it sound ever so much nicer. :thumbdown:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

On a lighter note:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> On a lighter note:


Good one!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Satire alert. Still doing Dick Cheney's bidding? Maybe he still has his duck gun out.



Designer1234 said:


> It amazed me when the Republican (Senator?) yesterday defended it. He said that it did a lot of good and was necessary. What is happening with the world? He said that
> it was not torture.
> 
> If it wasn't torture, what was it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It is a point of view burned into the connections of a certain group's thought processes.



Poor Purl said:


> You're right. Rumsfeld used to talk about torture as if they were just slapping prisoners in the face. Waterboarding was a joke until a couple of right wingers had it done to themselves


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put! Enjoy the concert. I just got a picture of a 'new' cello. Talent everywhere.



Designer1234 said:


> Neb: We don't even all line up on here! I think you are wrong there. They tried to get a conversation going about health care if I remember correctly. But because of Obama being President those on the Republican side refused to talk. What about the plan discussed by Mitt Romney? It wasn't that different than the one that was passed.
> 
> Ladies correct me if I am wrong. I understood from reading here and the news that that was part of both platforms??
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely lace patterns. I'm looking at a few.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Green. I'm going to get the "Courage Scarf", but I'm gonna wait til my hubby gets home because he has a PayPal account, and I don't. Please pass the word.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It wasn't my home town. I was 2500 miles away, but I remember the times vividly. It shaped me as a person. And I'm grateful, but I also wish no one had to experience those times.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I thought I explained my reasons for thinking a new and bloody Civil Rights Movement is forming. Read my post again. I'm using my extensive personal experience and media information to form an opinion. I don't have anything that can even vaguely be called insider information. I grew up in Berkeley, CA. In the 1960s and early 70s, it was a hotbed of Civil Rights demonstrations and huge, frequent and violent demonstrations against the illegal war in Viet Nam. I participated in these demonstrations until they became violent. Fine by me to use civil disobedience and peacefully protest an issue, but when the violence comes in, I'm out.
> 
> I thought I was using the past tense when I spoke about living in a place where there was a 7pm-7am curfew. I'm sorry for my bad grammar. There was a plot of ground in Berkeley owned by the University of California at Berkeley. In the spring of 1969 a bunch of people planted grass and trees and flowers and named it People's Park. Ronald Reagan, then Governor of CA and head of the UC System's Board of Regents and whose hatred of Berkeley was legendary, decided to express his personal opinions about Berkeley through official means. Along with Catherine Hearst, member of the Board of Regents, wife of William Randolph Hearst, mother of Patty Hearst and another person who despised Berkeley, he influenced the Board of Regents to vote to tear the park down.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So one scared Dem gave in even though he was against it? This is your idea of proof? As Nebraska goes, so goes the nation?
> 
> Sometimes a senator has to do what's right. And if his constituents are overwhelmingly against the ACA, I hope they don't make use of it and expand their ERs accordingly.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I thought I explained my reasons for thinking a new and bloody Civil Rights Movement is forming. Read my post again. I'm using my extensive personal experience and media information to form an opinion. I don't have anything that can even vaguely be called insider information. I grew up in Berkeley, CA. In the 1960s and early 70s, it was a hotbed of Civil Rights demonstrations and huge, frequent and violent demonstrations against the illegal war in Viet Nam. I participated in these demonstrations until they became violent. Fine by me to use civil disobedience and peacefully protest an issue, but when the violence comes in, I'm out.
> 
> I thought I was using the past tense when I spoke about living in a place where there was a 7pm-7am curfew. I'm sorry for my bad grammar. There was a plot of ground in Berkeley owned by the University of California at Berkeley. In the spring of 1969 a bunch of people planted grass and trees and flowers and named it People's Park. Ronald Reagan, then Governor of CA and head of the UC System's Board of Regents and whose hatred of Berkeley was legendary, decided to express his personal opinions about Berkeley through official means. Along with Catherine Hearst, member of the Board of Regents, wife of William Randolph Hearst, mother of Patty Hearst and another person who despised Berkeley, he influenced the Board of Regents to vote to tear the park down.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I misunderstood. I didn't take anything you said, as rude. I apologize if that's what you thought. I was just curious.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Or the most accurate word: Torture


I agree!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> All the RW Clowns denied it was torture.Then some guy with a radio show decided to prove it was no big deal. In the middle of his experience, he had to call a stop because it was torturing him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I watched the video and read the article. First, I will say that he came out and told the truth. At least that was right in doing that. I will also say though, that I think when someone is water boarded, no one is standing there plugging their nose. So I think the torture would be even worse. I'm glad that someone had the courage to withstand just a little, and then tell how awful it is. People need to know what's being done in our name.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you, Nebraska. I just purchased the Blue Frost Lace Scarf--challenging, but oh so beautiful!


Thanks, Susan! Please spread the word.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think the many just didn't know one way or the other and chose to follow the loudmouths, the ones in the administration or on Faux News. Or simply said nothing on the subject.


I think SOME chose to follow the loudmouths. But I think we need to be careful about using words like, many or most. We really have no idea whether those words are accurate or not. They are words that divide. United we stand, divided we fall!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Lovely lace patterns. I'm looking at a few.


Thanks, Dame! Spread the word, please.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> It wasn't my home town. I was 2500 miles away, but I remember the times vividly. It shaped me as a person. And I'm grateful, but I also wish no one had to experience those times.


Sometimes I've heard that the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders orchestrated by Charles Manson ended the 60s sub-culture some young people were involved in, but for myself and my friends in Berkeley People's Park really got to us. It got to some of us so much we moved a 1,000 miles away and formed a commune. There had been so much demonstrating and violence associated with the Civil Rights Movement, The Free Speech Movement and against the illegal war in Vietnam that it just became time to go. There weren't enough of us to change what was happening around us. In a way, I don't know much about my own home town as a result of living elsewhere at various times.

My feeling about the New York Times article was "huh?, Berkeley? Protests? Big deal..." except the violence. Trahe demon strations resulting from what happened i


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I watched the video and read the article. First, I will say that he came out and told the truth. At least that was right in doing that. I will also say though, that I think when someone is water boarded, no one is standing there plugging their nose. So I think the torture would be even worse. I'm glad that someone had the courage to withstand just a little, and then tell how awful it is. People need to know what's being done in our name.


Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.

But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I watched the video and read the article. First, I will say that he came out and told the truth. At least that was right in doing that. I will also say though, that I think when someone is water boarded, no one is standing there plugging their nose. So I think the torture would be even worse. I'm glad that someone had the courage to withstand just a little, and then tell how awful it is. People need to know what's being done in our name.


I agree Neb.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Indeed. A form of torture in which the victim who is restrained with hands behind his back and on his knees has his head shoved into a tub of water almost long enough to drown. Calling it waterboarding seems to me to be part of a campaign to make it seem that instead of torturing anyone, they undergo "enhanced interrogation". Makes it sound ever so much nicer. :thumbdown:


Too bad they didn't call it what it was, 'nearly drowining' or 
"within an inch of drowning" prisoners.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> It wasn't my home town. I was 2500 miles away, but I remember the times vividly. It shaped me as a person. And I'm grateful, but I also wish no one had to experience those times.


Sometimes I've heard that the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders orchestrated by Charles Manson ended the 60s sub-culture some young people were involved in, but for myself and my friends in Berkeley People's Park really got to us. It got to some of us so much we moved a 1,000 miles away and formed a commune. There had been so much demonstrating and violence associated with the Civil Rights Movement, The Free Speech Movement and against the illegal war in Vietnam that it just became time to go. There weren't enough of us to change what was happening around us. In a way, I don't know much about my own home town as a result of living elsewhere so long at various times.

My feeling about the New York Times article was "huh?, Berkeley? Protests? Big deal..." except the violence. The demonstrations resulting from what happened in Ferguson, etc., are smaller but all too familiar. I would be out of this part of the world in a nanosecond if I didn't have the exceptionally good reasons to stay that I do have.

And, the positive things I was involved in have been and continue to be major influences and continue to be so fr me.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


Are you being sarcastic or are you serious?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Think she is serious. I think many Texans agree with her. If I am wrong I hope she will let us know. 

I sure am glad that no one decided to SCARE me!! or anyone I loved, or anyone for that matter! If that is the case scaring sure is a weird word for what they did to helpless prisoners.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Our Ms. Betsy is always so ironic.

Where have you been , Hun? Hope all has been well with you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


I strongly disagree!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think the many just didn't know one way or the other and chose to follow the loudmouths, the ones in the administration or on Faux News. Or simply said nothing on the subject.


I agree Purl. I have only seen McCain publicly say it is wrong. I have seen 3 Senators speaking as if it was a necessary and wasn't torture. (Republicans). I should have written down their names. They speak for Republicans and I haven't heard anyone (including those on D and P say that it was over the top.) When they don't agree (If they don't agree) they just don't say anything in my opinion . I would hope that someone can show us I am wrong. Please quote any Republicans who have publicly said that the things they did were torture. I hope I AM wrong.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Too bad they didn't call it what it was, 'nearly drowining' or
> "within an inch of drowning" prisoners.


It's worse than drowning. They do it over and over, not just once. I can't even imagine.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's worse than drowning. They do it over and over, not just once. I can't even imagine.


It's repulsive. All the torture acts are reprehensible to any right-thinking person.

What has anyone heard re: The Great Sony Cyber-Hack?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> It's repulsive. All the torture acts are reprehensible to any right-thinking person.
> 
> What has anyone heard re: The Great Sony Cyber-Hack?


I just saw a quick report on the news. I put this in the same category as the breaches at Target, Home Depot and Michaels. Sony claims that the hackers didn't get customer data, but we'll have to watch our account to be sure. I really don't care much about Sony. What people need to know is that China, Russia and Iran have all hacked into our government and infrastructure. They have taken temporary control of our systems, just to show that they can. If any of our enemies wanted to, they could take down our electricity or water. Millions would die. Nothing on the internet is adequately protected.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I got my pattern. I chose the Courage Lace Scarf.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Please send me the scarf ladies link. Big thanks.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


Honestly????? I cannot believe you just wrote those words. Where do you live? Is it nice and comfortable up there on your fluffy little pink cloud? :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I watched the video and read the article. First, I will say that he came out and told the truth. At least that was right in doing that. I will also say though, that I think when someone is water boarded, no one is standing there plugging their nose. So I think the torture would be even worse. I'm glad that someone had the courage to withstand just a little, and then tell how awful it is. People need to know what's being done in our name.


And yet, even after that, Dick Cheney continued to say a) it wasn't torture and b) we got a lot of info using it. As we're all seeing now, he was wrong on both counts. But I bet he sticks up for it still.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think SOME chose to follow the loudmouths. But I think we need to be careful about using words like, many or most. We really have no idea whether those words are accurate or not. They are words that divide. United we stand, divided we fall!


I don't know how to answer that. I don't think we have to be careful about our language when talking about people who were not careful about their actions.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


Then I'd like to try it out on you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Please send me the scarf ladies link. Big thanks.


Right under her post are links to Ravelry and Etsy. Thanks, SQM!  
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-304980-1.html


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sometimes I've heard that the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders orchestrated by Charles Manson ended the 60s sub-culture some young people were involved in, but for myself and my friends in Berkeley People's Park really got to us. It got to some of us so much we moved a 1,000 miles away and formed a commune. There had been so much demonstrating and violence associated with the Civil Rights Movement, The Free Speech Movement and against the illegal war in Vietnam that it just became time to go. There weren't enough of us to change what was happening around us. In a way, I don't know much about my own home town as a result of living elsewhere at various times.
> 
> My feeling about the New York Times article was "huh?, Berkeley? Protests? Big deal..." except the violence. Trahe demon strations resulting from what happened i


You've created one of the best typos I've ever seen: "demon strations." Was it on purpose?

Edit: Phooey. You corrected it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And yet, even after that, Dick Cheney continued to say a) it wasn't torture and b) we got a lot of info using it. As we're all seeing now, he was wrong on both counts. But I bet he sticks up for it still.


Cheney is a disgusting snake!!! But he doesn't speak for all or even most republicans. He speaks for himself.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


Really, then read the following

Waterboarding is a form of torture, more specifically a type of water torture, in which water is poured over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. The USA military used waterboarding as one of the many forms of terrorism to, in their eyes putt an end to terrorism. Waterboarding involves holding a person down, covering their face with fabric, then pouring water on the fabric. The wet fabric makes it impossible to breath and the person feel as if they are about to drown, thus freaking them out to the extent that they will do just about anything to avoid more torture.
Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage, and death. Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years. 
In the most common method of waterboarding, the captive's face is covered with cloth or some other thin material, and the subject is immobilized on his/her back at an incline of 10 to 20 degrees. Interrogators pour water onto the face over the breathing passages, causing an almost immediate gag reflex and creating the sensation for the captive that he is drowning. Victims of waterboarding are at extreme risk of sudden death due to the aspiration of vomitus. Vomitus travels up the oesophagus, which can then be inhaled (mostly into the right lung due to its more direct pathway).
Waterboarding was characterized in 2005 by former CIA director Porter J. Goss as a "professional interrogation technique." According to press accounts, a cloth or plastic wrap is placed over or in the person's mouth, and water is poured onto the person's head. Press accounts differ on the details of this technique  one article describes "dripping water into a wet cloth over a suspect's face," while another states that "cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him.
In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout. This procedure would may last up to twenty minutes in any one application.
Dr. Allen Keller, the director of the Bellevue Hospital/New York University Program for Survivors of Torture, has treated "a number of people" who had been subjected to forms of near-asphyxiation, including waterboarding. In an interview for The New Yorker, he argued that "it was indeed torture. 'Some victims were still traumatized years later', he said. One patient couldn't take showers, and panicked when it rained. 'The fear of being killed is a terrifying experience', he said.

Are you ready to put your money where your mouth is and subject yourself to a little waterboarding. If not, then please keep your ill informed comments to yourself, because they are totally incorrect.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know how to answer that. I don't think we have to be careful about our language when talking about people who were not careful about their actions.


I judge people upon their own words and deeds. I recognize that not all democrats are alike, just as not all republicans are alike.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Cheney is a disgusting snake!!! But he doesn't speak for all or even most republicans. He speaks for himself.


That remains to be seen.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I watched the video and read the article. First, I will say that he came out and told the truth. At least that was right in doing that. I will also say though, that I think when someone is water boarded, no one is standing there plugging their nose. So I think the torture would be even worse. I'm glad that someone had the courage to withstand just a little, and then tell how awful it is. People need to know what's being done in our name.


There may not have always been someone one is standing there plugging their nose, but according to press accounts, a cloth or plastic wrap is placed over or in the person's mouth, and water is poured onto the person's head. Press accounts differ on the details of this technique  one article describes "dripping water into a wet cloth over a suspect's face," while another states that "cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. The wet cloth or plastic wrap would have the same effect as someone holding the victim's nose, it would stop them being able to breathe.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You've created one of the best typos I've ever seen: "demon strations." Was it on purpose?
> 
> Edit: Phooey. You corrected it.


Nope, didn't do it on purpose and didn't even think it would be better to leave it as it.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Betsy Ross, I salute you. You are willing to stand up and show the rest of the world just how the CIA got away with it. What a patriot.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I am far behind in reading his thread but read Betsy Roth about plugging the nose and still being able to breathe through the mouth. Are you serious Lady? You need a Shrink desperately. With this kind of attitude we want to be a leading Nation? I am going to throw up big time. Bucket here I come. I know my neighbors very well and am glad that you are not one of them. One of us would have to move and F A R A W A Y.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly????? I cannot believe you just wrote those words. Where do you live? Is it nice and comfortable up there on your fluffy little pink cloud? :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


EveMCooke
THANK YOU. This woman's thinking makes me physically ill.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Don't get bent out of shape from The Betsey. She is hit and run. She will provoke us and then disappear. She might be gone already.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Really, then read the following
> 
> Waterboarding is a form of torture, more specifically a type of water torture, in which water is poured over a cloth covering the face and breathing passages of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning. The USA military used waterboarding as one of the many forms of terrorism to, in their eyes putt an end to terrorism. Waterboarding involves holding a person down, covering their face with fabric, then pouring water on the fabric. The wet fabric makes it impossible to breath and the person feel as if they are about to drown, thus freaking them out to the extent that they will do just about anything to avoid more torture.
> Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage, and death. Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.
> ...


EveMCooke
Only top notch Idiots would think that torture would bring about relevant information. Torture me and I spin a tail that will keep you busy for ages. Thank you Eve, you are certainly of sound mind. Huck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Kent State was close to me geographically.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Sometimes I've heard that the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders orchestrated by Charles Manson ended the 60s sub-culture some young people were involved in, but for myself and my friends in Berkeley People's Park really got to us. It got to some of us so much we moved a 1,000 miles away and formed a commune. There had been so much demonstrating and violence associated with the Civil Rights Movement, The Free Speech Movement and against the illegal war in Vietnam that it just became time to go. There weren't enough of us to change what was happening around us. In a way, I don't know much about my own home town as a result of living elsewhere at various times.
> 
> My feeling about the New York Times article was "huh?, Berkeley? Protests? Big deal..." except the violence. Trahe demon strations resulting from what happened i


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Boo" is scaring them. This is called torture. Talking around an issue makes it 'sound' better. Not.



Betsy Ross said:


> Plugging the nose makes it worse because it forces them to breath from their mouth.
> 
> But I still stay it's not torture. It's just scaring them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And yet, even after that, Dick Cheney continued to say a) it wasn't torture and b) we got a lot of info using it. As we're all seeing now, he was wrong on both counts. But I bet he sticks up for it still.


Satire alert.

Yeah and then there's the WMD's. That Dick sure knows his stuff.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you on this one, Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't know how to answer that. I don't think we have to be careful about our language when talking about people who were not careful about their actions.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO he doesn't even speak for himself. He speaks for effect.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Cheney is a disgusting snake!!! But he doesn't speak for all or even most republicans. He speaks for himself.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Betsy Ross, I salute you. You are willing to stand up and show the rest of the world just how the CIA got away with it. What a patriot.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO he doesn't even speak for himself. He speaks for effect.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Damemary
your avatar is extraordinary. I would love to have the courage this fine Woman had.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks. A common person drawn to extraordinary acts. I admire her a great deal also.



Huckleberry said:


> Damemary
> your avatar is extraordinary. I would love to have the courage this fine Woman had.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> THANK YOU. This woman's thinking makes me physically ill.


YOu should read the new topic on chit chat .Others are really letting the world know how much 
compassion for torture they have. It feel sick.Marilyn opened it and I can't believe that Americans have changed so much that they believe it is right to torture people. It sure does show the changes in attitude about so many things there.

It is a good thing it was admitted so everyone knows who stands up and is counted and who agrees with the lies, and secrets. Sad indeed. 
Unbelievable. The World is watching and listening and 
it will hurt the US in the eyes of those who still don't believe it is right. just my opinion.

No one will ever convince me that nearly drowning another person is right, or treating them the way Cheney and Rumsfelt authorized is right. We must speak up, all those who don't agree with it, no matter where we come from. 
Unbelievable.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-305058-1.html


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> It's repulsive. All the torture acts are reprehensible to any right-thinking person.
> 
> What has anyone heard re: The Great Sony Cyber-Hack?


North Korea denies they were responsible but they are happy that it happened.

A crowd calling themselves #GOP (Guardians of Peace) are claiming responsibility and say that this attack is miniscule compared to what's coming. Following article very informative:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/10/sony-pictures-hack-the-whole-story/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> YOu should read the new topic on chit chat .Others are really letting the world know how much
> compassion for torture they have. It feel sick.Marilyn opened it and I can't believe that Americans have changed so much that they believe it is right to torture people. It sure does show the changes in attitude about so many things there.
> 
> It is a good thing it was admitted so everyone knows who stands up and is counted and who agrees with the lies, and secrets. Sad indeed.
> ...


It seemed to me that all but three or four were anti-torture and wanted Bush and Cheney punished for it. But it's disturbing to see how warlike and irrational some can get.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Another change of subject. My dil went to the perinatologist yesterday. I told her, to tell the doctor that Grandma wants pictures of her grandbabies! So I ended up with ultrasound pictures of all four babies!  My hubby knows her doctor, so I knew I'd get them. ;-) They're so cute!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Satire alert.
> Yeah and then there's the WMD's. That Dick sure knows his stuff.


The phrase "enhanced interrogation techniques" has already been shortened to "EITs" thus further masking the fact that we're talking about torture.
.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Don't get bent out of shape from The Betsey. She is hit and run. She will provoke us and then disappear. She might be gone already.


She is fairly new to the forum. But has been signed on for a few months. I checked as she reminds me of someone.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It seemed to me that all but three or four were anti-torture and wanted Bush and Cheney punished for it. But it's disturbing to see how warlike and irrational some can get.


I agree there are lots who agree with us. Thanks be! but it also seems a few have no feeling that it is wrong. Those were the ones I was thinking about. I honestly am surprised.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Another change of subject. My dil went to the perinatologist yesterday. I told her, to tell the doctor that Grandma wants pictures of her grandbabies! So I ended up with ultrasound pictures of all four babies!  My hubby knows her doctor, so I knew I'd get them. ;-) They're so cute!


I'm sure they are. We're all waiting for them to make their debut. Can they tell sexes yet?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree there are lots who agree with us. Thanks be! but it also seems a few have no feeling that it is wrong. Those were the ones I was thinking about. I honestly am surprised.


What bothers me most is that some believe that our having been attacked by terrorists makes any kind of behavior okay, even if the individuals we're punishing had nothing to do with the attacks. In their minds, probably, all Arabs, or Muslims, or even simply non-Americans are equally guilty, and if we didn't treat them barbarically, we'd be treating them like royalty.

It's a very primitive mind-set, and I find it disturbing.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure they are. We're all waiting for them to make their debut. Can they tell sexes yet?


Not yet. She's only 9 weeks. I think they can tell at 12, but I don't remember. She'll be going to the doctor every week, so as soon as I know, you'll know. ;-) I'm so excited! Can't you tell? They look like tiny little babies. You can see their arms and legs. :-D


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tiny little beanie babies for Grandma. Wishing the best for all.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Another change of subject. My dil went to the perinatologist yesterday. I told her, to tell the doctor that Grandma wants pictures of her grandbabies! So I ended up with ultrasound pictures of all four babies!  My hubby knows her doctor, so I knew I'd get them. ;-) They're so cute!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What bothers me most is that some believe that our having been attacked by terrorists makes any kind of behavior okay, even if the individuals we're punishing had nothing to do with the attacks. In their minds, probably, all Arabs, or Muslims, or even simply non-Americans are equally guilty, and if we didn't treat them barbarically, we'd be treating them like royalty.
> 
> It's a very primitive mind-set, and I find it disturbing.


I agree with you! Being attacked doesn't justify torture. Not ever! That just makes us evil. But blaming all Arabs or all Muslims for the actions of some, isn't much different than blaming all republicans for the actions of some. It's the same mind set.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No comment at this time.



MaidInBedlam said:


> The phrase "enhanced interrogation techniques" has already been shortened to "EITs" thus further masking the fact that we're talking about torture.
> .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Disturbing, irrational, delusional, dangerous.....



Poor Purl said:


> What bothers me most is that some believe that our having been attacked by terrorists makes any kind of behavior okay, even if the individuals we're punishing had nothing to do with the attacks. In their minds, probably, all Arabs, or Muslims, or even simply non-Americans are equally guilty, and if we didn't treat them barbarically, we'd be treating them like royalty.
> 
> It's a very primitive mind-set, and I find it disturbing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you! Being attacked doesn't justify torture. Not ever! That just makes us evil. But blaming all Arabs or all Muslims for the actions of some, isn't much different than blaming all republicans for the actions of some. It's the same mind set.


It's not really the same. I don't intend to torture them, for one thing.

But I won't get into an argument right now. I've just seen today's Secret Lives of Sheep.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you! Being attacked doesn't justify torture. Not ever! That just makes us evil. But blaming all Arabs or all Muslims for the actions of some, isn't much different than blaming all republicans for the actions of some. It's the same mind set.


But the outcomes are quite different. Republicans might be insulted. Arabs or Muslims or anyone who looks like they may be Arab or Muslim could be tortured to death.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Tiny little beanie babies for Grandma. Wishing the best for all.


Thank you! Soon I'll be knitting tiny little beanies.  I'm almost done with my Christmas knitting. Then I get to start on tiny little baby stuff! Yay!

I've knitted 7 pairs of slippers, 1 sweater, 4 1/2 infinity scarves, and 3 hats, for Christmas. I knitted three little teddy bears and three little stockings for the triplet's grave and I knitted my husband a hat and scarf, and a dragon for my grandson. Whew!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not really the same. I don't intend to torture them, for one thing.
> 
> But I won't get into an argument right now. I've just seen today's Secret Lives of Sheep.


I love the secret lives of sheep! Its so much fun!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This just in, the autopsy of Tamir Rice, the 12-year old shot in Cleveland, concludes the cause of death is homicide. The family wants the case to go directly to trial but it looks like it will go to the grand jury first.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This just in, the autopsy of Tamir Rice, the 12-year old shot in Cleveland, concludes the cause of death is homicide. The family wants the case to go directly to trial but it looks like it will go to the grand jury first.


And here we go again.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Indeed. A form of torture in which the victim who is restrained with hands behind his back and on his knees has his head shoved into a tub of water almost long enough to drown. Calling it waterboarding seems to me to be part of a campaign to make it seem that instead of torturing anyone, they undergo "enhanced interrogation". Makes it sound ever so much nicer. :thumbdown:


It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.

Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


quote=soloweygirl]It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behaviour. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.

Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.[/quote]

Honestly???? Are you for real???? You have a very weird perception of acceptable behaviour. You also have absolutely no idea of what is involved in waterboarding. Have you ever watched any of the videos on waterboarding, or do you just consider them to be left wing propaganda? No, you would never watch them because it might start you thinking and you could never let that happen could you?

For a start it has never been acceptable behaviour to shove someones head down a toilet bowl, it has always been considered torture. Many, many people have memories of this form of childhood torture and these memories haunt them into adult life. These memories cause so much pain. It is never just boys will be boys behaviour; it should be nipped in the bud and stopped immediately. It should never be considered a rite of passage. If you consider it just a rite of passage then you need to ask yourself why you think this way. Perhaps you have extremely nasty and vicious boys living in your neck of the woods.

Now for the real crux of your argument, It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. There is a world of difference between the two, and if you are honest you will admit that you know the two are not the same. Do the boys in your schools blindfold their victims and tie their hands and legs? Do they then push their victims head down the toilet bowl and flush the cistern, repeatedly? When their victim is nearly downed do they pull him up and allow him one or two breaths of fresh air and then repeat the whole process, again and again?

Your statement Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it, purely for a political agenda has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the soldiers of one nation torturing people of another nation. Only in your warped mind can any similarity or connection be made.

Waterboarding is torture, it should never happen.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


Shoving someone's head in a toilet bowl is very bad behavior and not "boys will be boys" fun. Too many people have been injured and even killed by 
hazing activities, so I'm glad it's illegal. And I don't believe we should be using torture to make people talk. It's barbaric.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly???? Are you for real???? You have a very weird perception of acceptable behaviour. You also have absolutely no idea of what is involved in waterboarding. Have you ever watched any of the videos on waterboarding, or do you just consider them to be left wing propaganda? No, you would never watch them because it might start you thinking and you could never let that happen could you?
> 
> For a start it has never been acceptable behaviour to shove someones head down a toilet bowl, it has always been considered torture. Many, many people have memories of this form of childhood torture and these memories haunt them into adult life. These memories cause so much pain. It is never just boys will be boys behaviour; it should be nipped in the bud and stopped immediately. It should never be considered a rite of passage. If you consider it just a rite of passage then you need to ask yourself why you think this way. Perhaps you have extremely nasty and vicious boys living in your neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


Sorry, Solowey. I never asked the CIA to waterboard terrorist suspects (183 times for one unfortunate), force food up their rectums, shut them up in coffins for weeks, threaten to slit their mothers' throats, and all the other horrors. Maybe you're comfortable having these atrocities committed in your name. I'm not.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Solowey. I never asked the CIA to waterboard terrorist suspects (183 times for one unfortunate), force food up their rectums, shut them up in coffins for weeks, threaten to slit their mothers' throats, and all the other horrors. Maybe you're comfortable having these atrocities committed in your name. I'm not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


I am posting a link to a waterboarding demonstration that was shot in 2007, but I know you will not watch it, you will only say it is right wing propaganda. * Major edit here . I made a major error, I should have said left wing propaganda* There are links to other videos on waterboarding down the right hand of the screen when watching this video.

Is this really what happens in the schools in your area when the school boys participate in the 'boys will be boys behavior' behaviour. If it is then they must grow up and become monsters.

It is absolutely nothing remotely like 'jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl'.

Perhaps this is a little game you and your genteel lady friends could play at your next tupperware party. "Buy more tupperware or we waterboard you again".

You disgust me with your biased opinions that are definitely not rooted in fact .


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am posting a link to a waterboarding demonstration that was shot in 2007, but I know you will not watch it, you will only say it is right wing propaganda. * Major edit here . I made a major error, I should have said left wing propaganda* There are links to other videos on waterboarding down the right hand of the screen when watching this video.
> 
> Is this really what happens in the schools in your area when the school boys participate in the 'boys will be boys behavior' behaviour. If it is then they must grow up and become monsters.
> 
> ...


A brilliant suggestion, Evie. But why stop with waterbordering? I'm sure the CIA's full roster of "party games" would be enough to keep the affair lively--the D & P crowd could surely find an original use for that cream cheese they favor. :wink:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


They did it until the person nearly drowned, one they did it over l00 times without stopping -a bit different ??? or do you think it is the same? These weren't boys they were adults and they were torturing another human being. The boys likely or might have done it twice and were likely punished for it.

It was not deliberately to make someone feel as if they were drowning. Nothing you can say can change that. Your compassion for another human being is much to be admired. not. Two wrongs don't make a right and we lower ourselves to their level. It still surprises me some of the things you post.

However it surprises me less and less the more I read what you say.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am posting a link to a waterboarding demonstration that was shot in 2007, but I know you will not watch it, you will only say it is right wing propaganda. * Major edit here . I made a major error, I should have said left wing propaganda* There are links to other videos on waterboarding down the right hand of the screen when watching this video.
> 
> Is this really what happens in the schools in your area when the school boys participate in the 'boys will be boys behavior' behaviour. If it is then they must grow up and become monsters.
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you! Being attacked doesn't justify torture. Not ever! That just makes us evil. But blaming all Arabs or all Muslims for the actions of some, isn't much different than blaming all republicans for the actions of some. It's the same mind set.


Agreed -- I am sure that Many Republicans are horrified by this too, I wonder whether any on D and P feel that way. I doubt any will stand up and say so though. I hope I am wrong. If so I will apologize for what it is worth.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> But the outcomes are quite different. Republicans might be insulted. Arabs or Muslims or anyone who looks like they may be Arab or Muslim could be tortured to death.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


Just following orders, eh? Now that sounds familiar. It wasn't all that long ago that we were condemning Germans for using that excuse.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


Do you REALLY think that waterboarding is comparable to a humiliating prank?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Why bother responding to such Christian sentiments?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Why bother responding at all? Solow has achieved her objective - to rile people up so she can sit back and chuckle away at the angry people who did respond.

Not worth it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


Aren't you the one who got on the Domestic Violence thread and called me abusive because I wasn't nice to you?

Do you ever think about what you say before you say it?

I'm sure you've never had your head pushed into a toilet bowl or you wouldn't be so cavalier about it. More likely you were one of the pushers.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly???? Are you for real???? You have a very weird perception of acceptable behaviour. You also have absolutely no idea of what is involved in waterboarding. Have you ever watched any of the videos on waterboarding, or do you just consider them to be left wing propaganda? No, you would never watch them because it might start you thinking and you could never let that happen could you?
> 
> For a start it has never been acceptable behaviour to shove someones head down a toilet bowl, it has always been considered torture. Many, many people have memories of this form of childhood torture and these memories haunt them into adult life. These memories cause so much pain. It is never just boys will be boys behaviour; it should be nipped in the bud and stopped immediately. It should never be considered a rite of passage. If you consider it just a rite of passage then you need to ask yourself why you think this way. Perhaps you have extremely nasty and vicious boys living in your neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Shoving someone's head in a toilet bowl is very bad behavior and not "boys will be boys" fun. Too many people have been injured and even killed by
> hazing activities, so I'm glad it's illegal. And I don't believe we should be using torture to make people talk. It's barbaric.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Solowey. I never asked the CIA to waterboard terrorist suspects (183 times for one unfortunate), force food up their rectums, shut them up in coffins for weeks, threaten to slit their mothers' throats, and all the other horrors. Maybe you're comfortable having these atrocities committed in your name. I'm not.


You forgot about raping their daughters. Or was it their wives?

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You forgot about raping their daughters. Or was it their wives?
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Hmmm...must have been the same unit that let red ants swarm all over the sons' bodies until they were willing to tell where their fathers were hiding. Ugh.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Why bother responding to such Christian sentiments?


 :thumbdown:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> :thumbdown:


Isn't it a coincidence that the torture enthusiasts are also the most vociferously Christian?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Isn't it a coincidence that the torture enthusiasts are also the most vociferously Christian?


You insult me! I am a Christian!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am posting a link to a waterboarding demonstration that was shot in 2007, but I know you will not watch it, you will only say it is right wing propaganda. * Major edit here . I made a major error, I should have said left wing propaganda* There are links to other videos on waterboarding down the right hand of the screen when watching this video.
> 
> Is this really what happens in the schools in your area when the school boys participate in the 'boys will be boys behavior' behaviour. If it is then they must grow up and become monsters.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> A brilliant suggestion, Evie. But why stop with waterbordering? I'm sure the CIA's full roster of "party games" would be enough to keep the affair lively--the D & P crowd could surely find an original use for that cream cheese they favor. :wink:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You insult me! I am a Christian!


In fact, Soloweygirl is not Christian. She just hangs out with the other Obamaphobes because they're such swell people.


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## Farmwoman (Jul 2, 2014)

Maidinbedlam- I missed the original thread of this conversation. 
My heart goes out to anyone who has experienced a spontaneous 
miscarriage. I had one the first time I was pregnant, and was desperate to have a baby. It was devastating! If fertility issues complicate every thing, it is that much worse. Hugs and caring to whom ever is experiencing this. : ( MERRY CHRISTMAS! : )


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In fact, Soloweygirl is not Christian. She just hangs out with the other Obamaphobes because they're such swell people.


I'm just tired of the bigotry.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I had three miscarriages it nearly broke my heart. That is why the attacks from the Right, are so hurtful.

I don't agree with abortion and would never have had one. I believe in a woman's right to choose what is right for her. Big difference. You can say that over and over and it is ignored. 

You are correct Neb. Soloway has told us on more than one occasion that she is not a Christian. Whatever she is, doesn't make her kind.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! Soon I'll be knitting tiny little beanies.  I'm almost done with my Christmas knitting. Then I get to start on tiny little baby stuff! Yay!
> 
> I've knitted 7 pairs of slippers, 1 sweater, 4 1/2 infinity scarves, and 3 hats, for Christmas. I knitted three little teddy bears and three little stockings for the triplet's grave and I knitted my husband a hat and scarf, and a dragon for my grandson. Whew!


I Pray for the babies Neb.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Eve. I don't imagine it will get her to think, but maybe it will get through to someone else.
> 
> There's also the one in which a right-wing radio guy tries it himself. Maybe that would convince her.


Yes I watched that one previously.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I Pray for the babies Neb.


I know you do, Shirley. And I really appreciate it! We need all the prayers we can get!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm only just online. It was very late last night when I posted the comment that was taken very badly. I apologise unreservedly for any and all offence taken. It obviously came out of my own prejudice and reading the other thread about torture.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You insult me! I am a Christian!


Neb - I am too, but it seems to me that some of those who are not speaking out are those who profess to be strong Christians. I know Solo is not, but why is there no one coming on here and for once agreeing with us that this is really wrong? Even on the main forums,some of those who profess to be Religious say it is okay, even though they don't come on these threads.

It should be people who know this is wrong standing up and being counted whether they are Christian,Jewish, no religious beliefs or Republican or Democrat or people from around the world, or none of those things.

How can they stand up and say that it is not torture?  Or how can they not say it is wrong? I don't feel insulted that some have said Christians think it is okay- as if they didn't why aren't they saying so. I applaud you - I am just so sorry we seem to be in the minority. Where are the Church leaders who should be speaking out? makes you wonder doesn't it.

Sad indeed.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: But, of course, you were trying to do this:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly???? Are you for real???? You have a very weird perception of acceptable behaviour. You also have absolutely no idea of what is involved in waterboarding. Have you ever watched any of the videos on waterboarding, or do you just consider them to be left wing propaganda? No, you would never watch them because it might start you thinking and you could never let that happen could you
> 
> For a start it has never been acceptable behaviour to shove someones head down a toilet bowl, it has always been considered torture. Many, many people have memories of this form of childhood torture and these memories haunt them into adult life. These memories cause so much pain. It is never just boys will be boys behaviour; it should be nipped in the bud and stopped immediately. It should never be considered a rite of passage. If you consider it just a rite of passage then you need to ask yourself why you think this way. Perhaps you have extremely nasty and vicious boys living in your neck of the woods.
> 
> ...


I did not say I found this to be acceptable behavior, just that it was considered acceptable. Comprehension problems? Many fraternity "brothers"" do consider hazing to be a rite of passage. Children torture other children to get what they want, so why it it so hard to comprehend that adults will torture adults to get what they want.

the CIA was tasked to do a job and did it. Dems and Repubs were onboard with the premise of whatever it takes to get the job done. Dianne Feinstein was among them. Apparently, they should have been more interested in exactly what the CIA planned on doing before unanimously giving them the go ahead and then bitching about it later. That is something that is a real problem with our Congress. Passing bills and then finding out what they contain after it is too late to change them. Not to mention being shocked by the contents of the bills.

You don't release a report like this when your country is still fighting a war against terrorism. It's wrong and will set back our ability to obtain information we need to keep our country safe. Just as it did in the past. We've handed our enemies information they didn't have. All because our "leaders" are acting like spoiled brats over their loss during the last election. It's very similar to people that are evicted from their homes and trash the home in retaliation. This time it's their country they are trashing. This report was released without regard to those still out in the field, along with their informants. Many lives have been put in jeopardy. But who cares? - not the Democrats.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I am posting a link to a waterboarding demonstration that was shot in 2007, but I know you will not watch it, you will only say it is right wing propaganda. * Major edit here . I made a major error, I should have said left wing propaganda* There are links to other videos on waterboarding down the right hand of the screen when watching this video.
> 
> Is this really what happens in the schools in your area when the school boys participate in the 'boys will be boys behavior' behaviour. If it is then they must grow up and become monsters.
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'm only just online. It was very late last night when I posted the comment that was taken very badly. I apologise unreservedly for any and all offence taken. It obviously came out of my own prejudice and reading the other thread about torture.


I read your post there and agreed with you. It is getting worse and worse and very scary.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I did not say I found this to be acceptable behavior, just that it was considered acceptable. Comprehension problems? Many fraternity "brothers"" do consider hazing to be a rite of passage. Children torture other children to get what they want, so why it it so hard to comprehend that adults will torture adults to get what they want.
> 
> the CIA was tasked to do a job and did it. Dems and Repubs were onboard with the premise of whatever it takes to get the job done. Dianne Feinstein was among them. Apparently, they should have been more interested in exactly what the CIA planned on doing before unanimously giving them the go ahead and then bitching about it later. That is something that is a real problem with our Congress. Passing bills and then finding out what they contain after it is too late to change them. Not to mention being shocked by the contents of the bills.
> 
> You don't release a report like this when your country is still fighting a war against terrorism. It's wrong and will set back our ability to obtain information we need to keep our country safe. Just as it did in the past. We've handed our enemies information they didn't have. All because our "leaders" are acting like spoiled brats over their loss during the last election. It's very similar to people that are evicted from their homes and trash the home in retaliation. This time it's their country they are trashing. This report was released without regard to those still out in the field, along with their informants. Many lives have been put in jeopardy. But who cares? - not the Democrats.


You were doing ok up until your last sentence. You were posting on these threads when the identity of 2 of our CIA agents names were released to the public by the Bush Admin. 
Do you not think that those who were released from Gitmo did not tell about their torture upon returning to their homeland? Please!!
The report is not "new" information. 
When it comes to the lives of Americans, you speak in 2 different tongues. You were having a cow over the soldier who was released in trade of those GITMO prisoners. You went as far as to put down his family. If I remember correctly, it was the Dems here who stood up for him.
We have never been a country who used torture before. Because Cheney says it's ok does'nt mean it really is.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Why bother responding at all? Solow has achieved her objective - to rile people up so she can sit back and chuckle away at the angry people who did respond.
> 
> Not worth it.


Yes, but it is hard at times. Have you seen the thread about 'too many bullies'. One of the religious fundamentalists has started this thread, crying that all the people on the right are so nasty to her and will not let the conservatives have their say. She calls it Conservative baiting. A lot of other people who follow the conservative line of political persuasion or the fundamentalist religious beliefs have agreed with her. I did pen a reply but wanted to check a fact and unfortunately lost what I had typed. I took that as a sign or a message from someone or something out there in the collective consciousness that it would be better not to post as my reply would only add fuel to their fire. So I will let it go. But if you have a moment pop over and read it, especially the comment one poster made regarding the fact that if she believed in evolution she would also believe that the moon was made of green cheese. Shaking my head. :?: :?: :shock: :roll:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm just tired of the bigotry.


And so are those who are not Christians, they are tired of having Christian religious texts quoted at them and being told that they are condemned to burn in hell forever because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord. Many religions consider Jesus to be a Prophet, a Holy Man, they do not consider him to be a God.

As a Buddhist I am extremely tired of the religious bigotry displayed by some Christians towards my belief system. Buddhism is older than Christianity and has its formation in Hinduism, which is one of the world's oldest and longest surviving religions.

I am not your enemy.

I hope everything is going fine for your daughter in law. I know and understand that this is a trying period for all of you. I know and understand the difficulties she is facing in her pregnancy. She will need all the help you can give her, both physical and mental. Just be there for her and see that she rests, she that she does not do anything too physical or strenuous. She will need all the rest she can get, the doctors may prescribe total bed rest during the later months of the pregnancy, they may even prescribe hospital care. But, people are thinking of you during this difficult time, even people who do not agree with your political or religious beliefs.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And so are those who are not Christians, they are tired of having Christian religious texts quoted at them and being told that they are condemned to burn in hell forever because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord. Many religions consider Jesus to be a Prophet, a Holy Man, they do not consider him to be a God.
> 
> As a Buddhist I am extremely tired of the religious bigotry displayed by some Christians towards my belief system. Buddhism is older than Christianity and has its formation in Hinduism, which is one of the world's oldest and longest surviving religions.
> 
> ...


hear hear -- We all care for each other on this thread.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, but it is hard at times. Have you seen the thread about 'too many bullies'. One of the religious fundamentalists has started this thread, crying that all the people on the right are so nasty to her and will not let the conservatives have their say. She calls it Conservative baiting. A lot of other people who follow the conservative line of political persuasion or the fundamentalist religious beliefs have agreed with her. I did pen a reply but wanted to check a fact and unfortunately lost what I had typed. I took that as a sign or a message from someone or something out there in the collective consciousness that it would be better not to post as my reply would only add fuel to their fire. So I will let it go. But if you have a moment pop over and read it, especially the comment one poster made regarding the fact that if she believed in evolution she would also believe that the moon was made of green cheese. Shaking my head. :?: :?: :shock: :roll:


The original poster on that thread is one of the most close minded of all the Fundamentalists on this forum. She has a following - and I noticed that some of our more vocal friends are there too. There is another thread that AW started and she got into that one too. I got into it a bit and then left. I just don't feel like dealing with those people. Oh well. I think it is going to be worse once they get into Power. I don't know whether I have the stomach to deal with them anymore, but realize it is a bad day for me.

Anyway Eve, it is useless and she says such outrageous things that it boggles the mind.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, but it is hard at times. Have you seen the thread about 'too many bullies'. One of the religious fundamentalists has started this thread, crying that all the people on the right are so nasty to her and will not let the conservatives have their say. She calls it Conservative baiting. A lot of other people who follow the conservative line of political persuasion or the fundamentalist religious beliefs have agreed with her. I did pen a reply but wanted to check a fact and unfortunately lost what I had typed. I took that as a sign or a message from someone or something out there in the collective consciousness that it would be better not to post as my reply would only add fuel to their fire. So I will let it go. But if you have a moment pop over and read it, especially the comment one poster made regarding the fact that if she believed in evolution she would also believe that the moon was made of green cheese. Shaking my head. :?: :?: :shock: :roll:


On my way to said thread now. I understand very well the urge to respond to the rubbish certain people post, and as you know, I've responded to my fair share. But I'm getting to the point where I haven't got the desire or the energy to challenge rubbish anymore. Just makes the old BP go up and I reckon they're getting more out of the exchange anyway (or at least they think they are).

Hard times or good times, they're never going to change.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> On my way to said thread now. I understand very well the urge to respond to the rubbish certain people post, and as you know, I've responded to my fair share. But I'm getting to the point where I haven't got the desire or the energy to challenge rubbish anymore. Just makes the old BP go up and I reckon they're getting more out of the exchange anyway (or at least they think they are).
> 
> Hard times or good times, they're never going to change.










[


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It really doesn't sound any different than jr. and senior high school boys taking turns pushing another classmates head in a toilet bowl. We didn't classify that as torture though, did we? It was considered boys will be boys behavior. Hazing is now illegal. Isn't/wasn't that torture as well? We've been "torturing" our citizens for years and it has been acceptable by society, even considered a rite of passage.
> 
> Now it's considered acceptable to throw an organization under the bus for doing what has been asked of it. purely for a political agenda.


soloweygirl
it is wrong, it is wrong, it is wrong no matter how many dumb excuses you are trying to come up with. Hope that some in the organization refused to participate.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> it is wrong, it is wrong, it is wrong no matter how many dumb excuses you are trying to come up with. Hope that some in the organization refused to participate.


Huck, you are correct, you are correct, you are correct.

Hazing has been outlawed in most places because so many people were injured or killed due to the excesses. Even if legal, one must ask, is it moral? It is not legal to haze and it is definitely immoral for the US to torture for any reason. By trading theoretical security for our integrity we are diminished as a nation. Those who endorse torture demonstrate their lack of a moral compass.

No, we have not always done it, either. If it was done it was done without approval or sanction by outlaws. WE helped formulate the Geneva Conventions and our own legal code forbids such things. Bush and Cheney may not have known initially what was actually happening, but neither of them asked that important question about morality - they only wanted to know whether it was legal to abuse "enemy combatants" (otherwise and more accurately known as prisoners of war). Scum, both of them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Just following orders, eh? Now that sounds familiar. It wasn't all that long ago that we were condemning Germans for using that excuse.


sumpleby
not only "wasn't all that long ago" but still and will be for y e a r s to come.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Isn't it a coincidence that the torture enthusiasts are also the most vociferously Christian?


aw9358
may we remember that the bloodiest Wars in the History of Mankind have been started and fought by Christians. What a swell bunch they have been.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You insult me! I am a Christian!


Knitter from Nebraska
only if the Shoe fits should you feel insulted.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> may we remember that the bloodiest Wars in the History of Mankind have been started and fought by Christians. What a swell bunch they have been.


All the more reason to ignore the bigotry on these threads.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> All the more reason to ignore the bigotry on these threads.


But important to take note of the ideas held by the super-religious and extremists.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> But important to take note of the ideas held by the super-religious and extremists.


Because if left unchecked we'll be in real strife, I know.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Huck, you are correct, you are correct, you are correct.
> 
> Hazing has been outlawed in most places because so many people were injured or killed due to the excesses. Even if legal, one must ask, is it moral? It is not legal to haze and it is definitely immoral for the US to torture for any reason. By trading theoretical security for our integrity we are diminished as a nation. Those who endorse torture demonstrate their lack of a moral compass.
> 
> No, we have not always done it, either. If it was done it was done without approval or sanction by outlaws. WE helped formulate the Geneva Conventions and our own legal code forbids such things. Bush and Cheney may not have known initially what was actually happening, but neither of them asked that important question about morality - they only wanted to know whether it was legal to abuse "enemy combatants" (otherwise and more accurately known as prisoners of war). Scum, both of them.


DGreen
Thank you very much. I agree, even if some Monster in our government finds it acceptable, it is still wrong. If Bush/Cheney did not know, their intelligence gathering skills were extremely flawed. Did not Nixon claim he did not know and was ousted? Any of their excuses I do not buy. If you are the leader of the pack, you are responsible for what it does.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you very much. I agree, even if some Monster in our government finds it acceptable, it is still wrong. If Bush/Cheney did not know, their intelligence gathering skills were extremely flawed. Did not Nixon claim he did not know and was ousted? Any of their excuses I do not buy. If you are the leader of the pack, you are responsible for what it does.


Troubling, how many citizens feel it was perfectly acceptable - due to the expediency of obtaining intelligence. The ends justifies the means argument. Again, moral compass absent.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I'm only just online. It was very late last night when I posted the comment that was taken very badly. I apologise unreservedly for any and all offence taken. It obviously came out of my own prejudice and reading the other thread about torture.


Thank you! I've just read this now, because we've been out of town. I appreciate your apology!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you! I've just read this now, because we've been out of town. I appreciate your apology!


Thank you back. I hope you know I didn't mean every Christian... I'm going to stop digging now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Troubling, how many citizens feel it was perfectly acceptable - due to the expediency of obtaining intelligence. The ends justifies the means argument. Again, moral compass absent.


Yes, D, you are right. I was just reading this article and it made me sick.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dick-cheney-pushes-back-on-torture-report-id-do-it-again-in-a-minute/ar-BBgNvMw


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb - I am too, but it seems to me that some of those who are not speaking out are those who profess to be strong Christians. I know Solo is not, but why is there no one coming on here and for once agreeing with us that this is really wrong? Even on the main forums,some of those who profess to be Religious say it is okay, even though they don't come on these threads.
> 
> It should be people who know this is wrong standing up and being counted whether they are Christian,Jewish, no religious beliefs or Republican or Democrat or people from around the world, or none of those things.
> 
> ...


I don't know how they can profess that torture is not wrong. But it has nothing to do with their being Christian or not. And I really don't know whether church leaders are speaking out against it, or not. The reason I don't attend a church is because church leaders aren't speaking out against evil everywhere! Churches have become complacent. IMO, they're more interested in numbers than souls. IMO, when the bible speaks of "the church", it is speaking of the true believers and followers, not those who sit in a building and talk. Some who attend church, are " the church ", and some are not. Just my opinion, which explains why some who profess to be Christians, really aren't.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know how they can profess that torture is not wrong. But it has nothing to do with their being Christian or not. And I really don't know whether church leaders are speaking out against it, or not. The reason I don't attend a church is because church leaders aren't speaking out against evil everywhere! Churches have become complacent. IMO, they're more interested in numbers than souls. IMO, when the bible speaks of "the church", it is speaking of the true believers and followers, not those who sit in a building and talk. Some who attend church, are " the church ", and some are not. Just my opinion, which explains why some who profess to be Christians, really aren't.


Isn't there a line in the bible about taking care of prisoners and showing kindness to them?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> And so are those who are not Christians, they are tired of having Christian religious texts quoted at them and being told that they are condemned to burn in hell forever because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord. Many religions consider Jesus to be a Prophet, a Holy Man, they do not consider him to be a God.
> 
> As a Buddhist I am extremely tired of the religious bigotry displayed by some Christians towards my belief system. Buddhism is older than Christianity and has its formation in Hinduism, which is one of the world's oldest and longest surviving religions.
> 
> ...


Proselytizing does not occur by virtue of being Christian. I am Christian and I have never told you, or anyone who believes differently than I do, that they're going to go to hell. I try to be a living example of my beliefs. There are those in every belief system who insist that others believe as they do. And believe me when I say, I have NEVER considered you, my enemy!

Thanks for thinking of me and my family. I think we understand better than anyone how important it will be for my dil to be still and calm. I'm pretty sure shell be put on bed rest pretty early. And she will need an EXTRA 1200 calories per day. Do you have any idea how hard it is to eat an additional 1200 of "healthy" food? I'll be doing a lot of food preparation. I thought I'd go to their house in the morning. I'll take care of Max and do some laundry, housework, fix dinner etc... and then take Max to my house in the afternoon, to do the same. That way, Max gets to spend part of every day at home and I can help keep up with the housework. I'm sure its going to be very difficult for all of us. I don't underestimate it. I hope and pray that it all works out.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> hear hear -- We all care for each other on this thread.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Huck, you are correct, you are correct, you are correct.
> 
> Hazing has been outlawed in most places because so many people were injured or killed due to the excesses. Even if legal, one must ask, is it moral? It is not legal to haze and it is definitely immoral for the US to torture for any reason. By trading theoretical security for our integrity we are diminished as a nation. Those who endorse torture demonstrate their lack of a moral compass.
> 
> No, we have not always done it, either. If it was done it was done without approval or sanction by outlaws. WE helped formulate the Geneva Conventions and our own legal code forbids such things. Bush and Cheney may not have known initially what was actually happening, but neither of them asked that important question about morality - they only wanted to know whether it was legal to abuse "enemy combatants" (otherwise and more accurately known as prisoners of war). Scum, both of them.


To my knowledge, hazing used to involve a harmless embarrassing stunt, like a guy having to wear a dress in public. But as society deteriorates, so too do hazing rituals. I think we're in the midst of a complete breakdown of society, as which occurred with the fall of Rome. I also believe that the rot goes from the top, down.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know how they can profess that torture is not wrong. But it has nothing to do with their being Christian or not. And I really don't know whether church leaders are speaking out against it, or not. The reason I don't attend a church is because church leaders aren't speaking out against evil everywhere! Churches have become complacent. IMO, they're more interested in numbers than souls. IMO, when the bible speaks of "the church", it is speaking of the true believers and followers, not those who sit in a building and talk. Some who attend church, are " the church ", and some are not. Just my opinion, which explains why some who profess to be Christians, really aren't.


WOW - I didn't realize my feelings about Church are exactly the same as yours. I believe you have to be Christian inside yourself and try to live by the Teachings - do unto others and 
love they neighbor. And try to be kind. I find that one the hardest on these threads. Anyway, I agree l00% - when I speak of the Christians not living up to how they should act I certainly don't mean All Christians. Just those who have closed minds and who seem to hate everyone but those who believe exactly as they do.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Proselytizing does not occur by virtue of being Christian. I am Christian and I have never told you, or anyone who believes differently than I do, that they're going to go to hell. I try to be a living example of my beliefs. There are those in every belief system who insist that others believe as they do. And believe me when I say, I have NEVER considered you, my enemy!
> 
> Thanks for thinking of me and my family. I think we understand better than anyone how important it will be for my dil to be still and calm. I'm pretty sure shell be put on bed rest pretty early. And she will need an EXTRA 1200 calories per day. Do you have any idea how hard it is to eat an additional 1200 of "healthy" food? I'll be doing a lot of food preparation. I thought I'd go to their house in the morning. I'll take care of Max and do some laundry, housework, fix dinner etc... and then take Max to my house in the afternoon, to do the same. That way, Max gets to spend part of every day at home and I can help keep up with the housework. I'm sure its going to be very difficult for all of us. I don't underestimate it. I hope and pray that it all works out.


They are so lucky to have you. I applaud you. I Pray for you all. You are earning your wings as my Nana used to say when anyone did anything extremely good and kind.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> only if the Shoe fits should you feel insulted.


I disagree! We should stop condemning entire groups for the words and actions of some.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> But important to take note of the ideas held by the super-religious and extremists.


And even the anti religious.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Troubling, how many citizens feel it was perfectly acceptable - due to the expediency of obtaining intelligence. The ends justifies the means argument. Again, moral compass absent.


Agree!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you back. I hope you know I didn't mean every Christian... I'm going to stop digging now.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, D, you are right. I was just reading this article and it made me sick.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dick-cheney-pushes-back-on-torture-report-id-do-it-again-in-a-minute/ar-BBgNvMw


It's almost as if he isn't human at all! As if he came from the bowels of hell! Nothing justifies this! And to think that they did this in OUR name! It makes me sick!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't there a line in the bible about taking care of prisoners and showing kindness to them?


Hebrews 13:3. Remember the prisoners as if chained with them, those who are mistreated, since you yourselves are in the body also.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sorry double post.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's almost as if he isn't human at all! As if he came from the bowels of hell! Nothing justifies this! And to think that they did this in OUR name! It makes me sick!


he is a criminal. He couldn't care less about anyone- he thinks he can play God. I dislike him so intensely. Bush was under his thumb in my opinion. Cheney ran the show. so dreadful.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> WOW - I didn't realize my feelings about Church are exactly the same as yours. I believe you have to be Christian inside yourself and try to live by the Teachings - do unto others and
> love they neighbor. And try to be kind. I find that one the hardest on these threads. Anyway, I agree l00% - when I speak of the Christians not living up to how they should act I certainly don't mean All Christians. Just those who have closed minds and who seem to hate everyone but those who believe exactly as they do.


 :thumbup:

I love your new avatar! It's beautiful. I love poinsettias at Christmas. I have 12 of them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Troubling, how many citizens feel it was perfectly acceptable - due to the expediency of obtaining intelligence. The ends justifies the means argument. Again, moral compass absent.


It doesn't sound as if they even gained any information from what has been said up here. Even if they had who can believe what people say when they are being tortured. They will say anything to stop the torture. Boggles my mind!!CBC just showed some pictures and quoted the Prime minister in Australia. Not too much information but the man is still holding hostages.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> They are so lucky to have you. I applaud you. I Pray for you all. You are earning your wings as my Nana used to say when anyone did anything extremely good and kind.


Thanks Shirley, but you wouldn't do any differently, would you? Mine is a living faith. I continue to thank you for your prayers.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I love your new avatar! It's beautiful. I love poinsettias at Christmas. I have 12 of them.


Thanks, It is thread painted. I taught a class of Christmas wall hangings all done in manual machine thread painting - This is one of them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> he is a criminal. He couldn't care less about anyone- he thinks he can play God. I dislike him so intensely. Bush was under his thumb in my opinion. Cheney ran the show. so dreadful.


I agree, except I think he's worse than criminal.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks, It is thread painted. I taught a class of Christmas wall hangings all done in manual machine thread painting - This is one of them.


Are you kidding?!? This is one of your thread paintings?!? Unbelievable! It's so perfect. So beautiful! You add beauty to the world. Thank you for sharing it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks Shirley, but you wouldn't do any differently, would you? Mine is a living faith. I continue to thank you for your prayers.


No, I wouldn't. I lost three babies by miscarriages after my first son was born then I had a little girl, she was a SID's baby she died at 3 months ,then I had a 2nd son. l0 years later we adopted a little girl. My oldest son Died 5 years ago yesterday. It isn't easy. My DH was in the service and he was away so much. It was a hard few years but we were in it together -and we survived. I wasn't sure whether I would to be honest. Even so, I wouldn't do anything differently. My Faith is my own, and I try to live it -- Hard to do on these threads sometimes, but some things are important to stand up for.

Anyway, I applaud you. You and I have a MIL in common too. Mine is gone now but she made my life very difficult. We ended up okay before she passed on. Oh dear, I thought we were on LOLL. Oh well, they likely read everything there anyway and I don't care what anyone says. I know my own Faith and my own beliefs.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you kidding?!? This is one of your thread paintings?!? Unbelievable! It's so perfect. So beautiful! You add beauty to the world. Thank you for sharing it.


Check out the two links below my posts. It is the Craft section and shows a lot of my work over the years.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hebrews 13:3. Remember the prisoners as if chained with them, those who are mistreated, since you yourselves are in the body also.


That is the one! I wish everyone would read it who thinks it was okay. Not just Churchgoers but everyone.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> No, I wouldn't. I lost three babies by miscarriages after my first son was born then I had a little girl, she was a SID's baby she died at 3 months ,then I had a 2nd son. l0 years later we adopted a little girl. My oldest son Died 5 years ago yesterday. It isn't easy. My DH was in the service and he was away so much. It was a hard few years but we were in it together -and we survived. I wasn't sure whether I would to be honest. Even so, I wouldn't do anything differently. My Faith is my own, and I try to live it -- Hard to do on these threads sometimes, but some things are important to stand up for.
> 
> Anyway, I applaud you. You and I have a MIL in common too. Mine is gone now but she made my life very difficult. We ended up okay before she passed on. Oh dear, I thought we were on LOLL. Oh well, they likely read everything there anyway and I don't care what anyone says. I know my own Faith and my own beliefs.


Yesterday had to be hard for you. I'm so sorry for your losses. I've not lost a child, so I can't pretend that I know how you feel but I grieve for you. You made it through because you had to. Isn't that what women do? We are strong!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Check out the two links below my posts. It is the Craft section and shows a lot of my work over the years.


I have looked at those, more than once. I didn't realize the poinsettia was one of them. I'll have to look again. You amaze me!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska thank you for your reply and comments. Your reply made a lot of sense and cleared the air in many way. 

I hope everything goes well for your daughter in law, it is a difficult time. Are there any special diets that your daughter in law can follow in order to eat the extra calories. Perhaps the doctor's office could suggest a special 'extra calorie' diet, or there may be sites on the web. When you are pregnant it is often difficult to eat a normal meal let alone eat extra calories. I know with my last pregnancy, I had an elective caesar on the doctor's orders at seven and a half months, I could not face breakfast the whole time I was pregnant, I had lunch and the food would still be there, sitting on top of the baby as I would say, at tea time so I did not feel like eating that meal either. Small high calorie meals several times a day rather than three larger meals. But everyone is thinking of you and hoping, no more than hoping, that everything turns out fine in the end.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> But important to take note of the ideas held by the super-religious and extremists.


DGreen
we should never lose sight of those who always mean ill. Know they Enemy as well as your Friend, perhaps even better.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks, It is thread painted. I taught a class of Christmas wall hangings all done in manual machine thread painting - This is one of them.


Your avatar is simply stunning.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> sorry double post.


Designer1234
absolutely gorgeous. So real looking.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree, except I think he's worse than criminal.


We here in Oz would say "on behalf of all the criminals in the world I strongly object to you calling this man a criminal". Sometimes you have to read that twice or thrice to understand what is being said. It is totally different from saying "I object to you calling this man a criminal". It is in fact completely the opposite. We might add "to call this ****** a 'man' is using the term 'man' very loosely." We do not mince terms in Oz, we call a spade a spade.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, D, you are right. I was just reading this article and it made me sick.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dick-cheney-pushes-back-on-torture-report-id-do-it-again-in-a-minute/ar-BBgNvMw


BrattyPatty
Cheney is incurable - must have been born a Monster and will die an even greater one. Every time I see him on TV I break out with fever Blisters - he absolutely churns my inside. At least some Terror Dictators of the past pretended not to be so bad, Cheney seems to take delight in being despicable and announcing it to the whole World. I would be more than happy to waterboard him as well as inflict each and every other dastardly deed that has been inflicted on others, on him. He almost smirks when he speaks of the atrocities. The dictionary so far has no word to accurately describe him.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> we should never lose sight of those who always mean ill. Know they Enemy as well as your Friend, perhaps even better.


Keep your friends close but keep your enemies even closer. A quote from Machiavelli in "The Prince".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Cheney is incurable - must have been born a Monster and will die an even greater one.


Die? He's too evil ever to pass on. Unfortunates a hundred years in the future will have to deal with him--by then of course an evil cackling brain housed inside a state-of-the-art artificial body.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yesterday had to be hard for you. I'm so sorry for your losses. I've not lost a child, so I can't pretend that I know how you feel but I grieve for you. You made it through because you had to. Isn't that what women do? We are strong!


Exactly - If standing and screaming would change things you would stand and scream. I always knew it was something we had to both deal with. We did, somehow. That is how I know how you feel about the babies-- There is nothing you can do but the best you are able to do. That is why I told you what has happened to us. We do survive and we do come out stronger for it but it is so hard. I just hope everything works out for all of you and those babies.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Cheney is incurable - must have been born a Monster and will die an even greater one. Every time I see him on TV I break out with fever Blisters - he absolutely churns my inside. At least some Terror Dictators of the past pretended not to be so bad, Cheney seems to take delight in being despicable and announcing it to the whole World. I would be more than happy to waterboard him as well as inflict each and every other dastardly deed that has been inflicted on others, on him. He almost smirks when he speaks of the atrocities. The dictionary so far has no word to accurately describe him.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Cheney is incurable - must have been born a Monster and will die an even greater one. Every time I see him on TV I break out with fever Blisters - he absolutely churns my inside. At least some Terror Dictators of the past pretended not to be so bad, Cheney seems to take delight in being despicable and announcing it to the whole World. I would be more than happy to waterboard him as well as inflict each and every other dastardly deed that has been inflicted on others, on him. He almost smirks when he speaks of the atrocities. The dictionary so far has no word to accurately describe him.


The Dalai Lama would urge you to not even think those thoughts lest your thoughts become reality. Remember Karma. Cheney will remain on the Wheel of Samsara until all his bad Karma is worked off. Who knows what his next incarnation will be. Thinking about inflicting torture on him, would that come under the heading of sinning by 'thought, word, deed or omission'?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Cheney is incurable - must have been born a Monster and will die an even greater one. Every time I see him on TV I break out with fever Blisters - he absolutely churns my inside. At least some Terror Dictators of the past pretended not to be so bad, Cheney seems to take delight in being despicable and announcing it to the whole World. I would be more than happy to waterboard him as well as inflict each and every other dastardly deed that has been inflicted on others, on him. He almost smirks when he speaks of the atrocities. The dictionary so far has no word to accurately describe him.


Tells you a lot about the COWS that they adore him and Bush. Trade recipes and prayers on one hand and cheer for evil on the other.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Check out the two links below my posts. It is the Craft section and shows a lot of my work over the years.


Shirley, I've just had another look at all of your work. Someday, I'd like to visit a Shirley Art Museum. Your works are so varied and wonderful, that's where they belong!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Knitter from Nebraska thank you for your reply and comments. Your reply made a lot of sense and cleared the air in many way.
> 
> I hope everything goes well for your daughter in law, it is a difficult time. Are there any special diets that your daughter in law can follow in order to eat the extra calories. Perhaps the doctor's office could suggest a special 'extra calorie' diet, or there may be sites on the web. When you are pregnant it is often difficult to eat a normal meal let alone eat extra calories. I know with my last pregnancy, I had an elective caesar on the doctor's orders at seven and a half months, I could not face breakfast the whole time I was pregnant, I had lunch and the food would still be there, sitting on top of the baby as I would say, at tea time so I did not feel like eating that meal either. Small high calorie meals several times a day rather than three larger meals. But everyone is thinking of you and hoping, no more than hoping, that everything turns out fine in the end.


It's funny how spoken words and written words can be taken differently. I wasn't even aware that we needed to clear the air. I hope I haven't said anything to offend you. It was not intended.

Dil can supplement her diet with Carnation Instant Breakfast, but she can only drink so much. When she was pregnant with the triplets, I'd buy all sorts of fruits and veggies, then I'd clean them and bag them so they'd be ready for her to eat. I also got the little individual containers of peanut butter, ranch etc... It seemed that she was eating constantly while the doctor kept telling her to eat more. Maybe we'll add ice cream to the list. LOL! If anyone can think of high calorie "healthy" foods, let me know. She can't stand Ensure or Boost.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> We here in Oz would say "on behalf of all the criminals in the world I strongly object to you calling this man a criminal". Sometimes you have to read that twice or thrice to understand what is being said. It is totally different from saying "I object to you calling this man a criminal". It is in fact completely the opposite. We might add "to call this ****** a 'man' is using the term 'man' very loosely." We do not mince terms in Oz, we call a spade a spade.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Exactly - If standing and screaming would change things you would stand and scream. I always knew it was something we had to both deal with. We did, somehow. That is how I know how you feel about the babies-- There is nothing you can do but the best you are able to do. That is why I told you what has happened to us. We do survive and we do come out stronger for it but it is so hard. I just hope everything works out for all of you and those babies.


Thank you!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> The Dalai Lama would urge you to not even think those thoughts lest your thoughts become reality. Remember Karma. Cheney will remain on the Wheel of Samsara until all his bad Karma is worked off. Who knows what his next incarnation will be. Thinking about inflicting torture on him, would that come under the heading of sinning by 'thought, word, deed or omission'?


I bet Cheney comes back as a mosquito - an annoying bloodsucker who doesn't know when it's time to go. Oh, wait, he's already like that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Tells you a lot about the COWS that they adore him and Bush. Trade recipes and prayers on one hand and cheer for evil on the other.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I bet Cheney comes back as a mosquito - an annoying bloodsucker who doesn't know when it's time to go. Oh, wait, he's already like that.


Think more along the lines of an Asian black bear that is kept in a tiny cage and inhumanly drained of its bile juices in order to make certain Chinese medicines. Their life is misery, suffering and torture. No, I must not think that, so I will stop immediately. If he were a mosquito he would only be causing pain and nuisance to others and would be swatted or sprayed very soon after birth. That would not be punishment. I must stop thinking along these lines, it is not nice. I do not want to inflict torture on another human in this life or the next. I may think they deserve punishment but I must not think about torturing them.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you very much. I agree, even if some Monster in our government finds it acceptable, it is still wrong. If Bush/Cheney did not know, their intelligence gathering skills were extremely flawed. Did not Nixon claim he did not know and was ousted? Any of their excuses I do not buy. If you are the leader of the pack, you are responsible for what it does.


Cheney's said that the US got important and useful information by using "enhanced interrogation techniques", but we didn't torture anyone. Therefore, I am sure we got less than nothing in terms of info and that we did indeed use torture, most likely using techniques none of us want to hear described in any detail.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you very much. I agree, even if some Monster in our government finds it acceptable, it is still wrong. If Bush/Cheney did not know, their intelligence gathering skills were extremely flawed. Did not Nixon claim he did not know and was ousted? Any of their excuses I do not buy. If you are the leader of the pack, you are responsible for what it does.


Huckleberry, then you must apply this logic to our current president. How many times has Pres. Obama claimed he knew nothing about what was happening and heard about it on the news? Any of his excuses I do not buy. He is the leader, yet does not accept responsibility.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Troubling, how many citizens feel it was perfectly acceptable - due to the expediency of obtaining intelligence. The ends justifies the means argument. Again, moral compass absent.


What is troubling is your putting the welfare of our country's enemies above that of her citizens.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What is troubling is your putting the welfare of our country's enemies above that of her citizens.


soloweygirl
troubling is that your thinking is all screwed up.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> What is troubling is your putting the welfare of our country's enemies above that of her citizens.


I am putting my morals and ethics foremost. Our country has always held a belief in a high moral standards and I'm not willing to sacrifice that for any expediency. We already have he abomination called the Patriot Act, passed in an atmosphere of panic and rampant fear.

The end does not justify the means - obviously you don't agree.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Huckleberry, then you must apply this logic to our current president. How many times has Pres. Obama claimed he knew nothing about what was happening and heard about it on the news? Any of his excuses I do not buy. He is the leader, yet does not accept responsibility.


Back to Benghazi, eh? The eternal chorus of Obama haters.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> troubling is that your thinking is all screwed up.


...and not even original. We've heard Solowey's rational before: from the lips of Nazi officers as they drained Russian children of their last drop of blood to furnish transfusions for wounded German soldiers. Ugh.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Change of subject. Last year for Christmas, I knitted cradle purses and lots of itty bitty clothes for each of my niece's and nephew's five daughters. One of my nieces had just had another girl and I'd meant to knit one for her after the holiday, but I just forgot all about it. So, the other night my niece called me. She wanted to know where they could find the 5" babies because the one year old kept taking her sister's baby and would scream if she couldn't have it. Well, I made sure she got a baby and started right in on another cradle purse. But here's the funny part; my niece said that her 4 year old daughter said, "Mommy, call Aunt Nan! She's like Santa! She can make anything.". Awwww! Cute!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Think more along the lines of an Asian black bear that is kept in a tiny cage and inhumanly drained of its bile juices in order to make certain Chinese medicines. Their life is misery, suffering and torture. No, I must not think that, so I will stop immediately. If he were a mosquito he would only be causing pain and nuisance to others and would be swatted or sprayed very soon after birth. That would not be punishment. I must stop thinking along these lines, it is not nice. I do not want to inflict torture on another human in this life or the next. I may think they deserve punishment but I must not think about torturing them.


Much better than a mosquito; I liked the thought of smacking him around if he were a mosquito, but the black bear would even look like Cheney.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and not even original. We've heard Solowey's rational before: from the lips of Nazi officers as they drained Russian children of their last drop of blood to furnish transfusions for wounded German soldiers. Ugh.


It was the right thing for the officers to do - they would never consider "putting the welfare of our country's enemies above that of her citizens."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perfect logic in these circumstance.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheney's said that the US got important and useful information by using "enhanced interrogation techniques", but we didn't torture anyone. Therefore, I am sure we got less than nothing in terms of info and that we did indeed use torture, most likely using techniques none of us want to hear described in any detail.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> troubling is that your thinking is all screwed up.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I am putting my morals and ethics foremost. Our country has always held a belief in a high moral standards and I'm not willing to sacrifice that for any expediency. We already have he abomination called the Patriot Act, passed in an atmosphere of panic and rampant fear.
> 
> The end does not justify the means - obviously you don't agree.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

From the mouths of babes. Adorable.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Change of subject. Last year for Christmas, I knitted cradle purses and lots of itty bitty clothes for each of my niece's and nephew's five daughters. One of my nieces had just had another girl and I'd meant to knit one for her after the holiday, but I just forgot all about it. So, the other night my niece called me. She wanted to know where they could find the 5" babies because the one year old kept taking her sister's baby and would scream if she couldn't have it. Well, I made sure she got a baby and started right in on another cradle purse. But here's the funny part; my niece said that her 4 year old daughter said, "Mommy, call Aunt Nan! She's like Santa! She can make anything.". Awwww! Cute!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Change of subject. Last year for Christmas, I knitted cradle purses and lots of itty bitty clothes for each of my niece's and nephew's five daughters. One of my nieces had just had another girl and I'd meant to knit one for her after the holiday, but I just forgot all about it. So, the other night my niece called me. She wanted to know where they could find the 5" babies because the one year old kept taking her sister's baby and would scream if she couldn't have it. Well, I made sure she got a baby and started right in on another cradle purse. But here's the funny part; my niece said that her 4 year old daughter said, "Mommy, call Aunt Nan! She's like Santa! She can make anything.". Awwww! Cute!


Too sweet. So lucky to have a talented Auntie, too.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Change of subject. Last year for Christmas, I knitted cradle purses and lots of itty bitty clothes for each of my niece's and nephew's five daughters. One of my nieces had just had another girl and I'd meant to knit one for her after the holiday, but I just forgot all about it. So, the other night my niece called me. She wanted to know where they could find the 5" babies because the one year old kept taking her sister's baby and would scream if she couldn't have it. Well, I made sure she got a baby and started right in on another cradle purse. But here's the funny part; my niece said that her 4 year old daughter said, "Mommy, call Aunt Nan! She's like Santa! She can make anything.". Awwww! Cute!


Thanks for a good change of subject. I wonder what your niece will ask "Aunt Santa" for next... :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thanks you guys! I just thought that was sooo cute. The one with the real talent is Frankie Brown. It's her pattern that I used for the cradle purses. They're adorable! 

Another funny! On black Friday, JoAnns had their baby yarn half off before noon. We were out with my son and his family. I was loading up my cart with yarn. Mason added a skein of green yarn that I didn't really want. So I put it back. He returned it to my cart, I put it back. The third time that I put it back, Mason (age 3) put his hands on his hips and said, "Grandma! That's for my dragon! Dragons are green!". Needless to say, grandma knitted a green dragon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

With your knitting talent and their imagination, you'll go far.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks you guys! I just thought that was sooo cute. The one with the real talent is Frankie Brown. It's her pattern that I used for the cradle purses. They're adorable!
> 
> Another funny! On black Friday, JoAnns had their baby yarn half off before noon. We were out with my son and his family. I was loading up my cart with yarn. Mason added a skein of green yarn that I didn't really want. So I put it back. He returned it to my cart, I put it back. The third time that I put it back, Mason (age 3) put his hands on his hips and said, "Grandma! That's for my dragon! Dragons are green!". Needless to say, grandma knitted a green dragon.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Huckleberry, then you must apply this logic to our current president. How many times has Pres. Obama claimed he knew nothing about what was happening and heard about it on the news? Any of his excuses I do not buy. He is the leader, yet does not accept responsibility.


soloweygirl
say what?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Back to Benghazi, eh? The eternal chorus of Obama haters.


And a whole bunch of other "problems" he conveniently didn't know anything about. I don't know him to hate him, those are your talking points. I just know he is incompetent in the position he holds.

Now lets see how he throws away the leverage he has now that the price of oil is so low. Russia, Venezuela, Iran are all hurting and their economies are nearing collapse. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and not even original. We've heard Solowey's rational before: from the lips of Nazi officers as they drained Russian children of their last drop of blood to furnish transfusions for wounded German soldiers. Ugh.


When are you going to realize that the terrorists play by their own rules. They count on the fact that we follow certain guidelines and use that against us. As long as we do that, we will never win the war on terror. If you are so content to see the ISIS flag flying over the White House, should they decide to let it stand, then by all means keep your head buried. That look is quite becoming on you.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Huckleberry, then you must apply this logic to our current president. How many times has Pres. Obama claimed he knew nothing about what was happening and heard about it on the news? Any of his excuses I do not buy. He is the leader, yet does not accept responsibility.


I heard that the Fort Hood shooting is being called CORRECTLY and act of terrorism, not workplace violence. It took an Act of Congress to give those men and women the respect and help they so desperately need. Another example of Obama's distain for the military and his alliance with radical Muslims.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I heard that the Fort Hood shooting is being called CORRECTLY and act of terrorism, not workplace violence. It took an Act of Congress to give those men and women the respect and help they so desperately need. Another example of Obama's distain for the military and his alliance with radical Muslims.


I have no idea what you are smoking, but you need to put it down and go to rehab.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> When are you going to realize that the terrorists play by their own rules. They count on the fact that we follow certain guidelines and use that against us. As long as we do that, we will never win the war on terror. If you are so content to see the ISIS flag flying over the White House, should they decide to let it stand, then by all means keep your head buried. That look is quite becoming on you.


So the only way to stop them is by becoming them, morally and tactically (give or take a few cultural and religious differences)? Then what are we?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I have no idea what you are smoking, but you need to put it down and go to rehab.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I heard that the Fort Hood shooting is being called CORRECTLY and act of terrorism, not workplace violence. It took an Act of Congress to give those men and women the respect and help they so desperately need. Another example of Obama's distain for the military and his alliance with radical Muslims.


lovethelake
another example of your hatred for President Obama. I have close Muslim Friends, so I am supporting Terrorists? You are not "all there" are you. Would love to see your hate riddled face. Must be quite a sight.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> another example of your hatred for President Obama. I have close Muslim Friends, so I am supporting Terrorists? You are not "all there" are you. Would love to see your hate riddled face. Must be quite a sight.


If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.

Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope it was a burp.



Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> say what?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember west Texas. God bless.



lovethelake said:


> I heard that the Fort Hood shooting is being called CORRECTLY and act of terrorism, not workplace violence. It took an Act of Congress to give those men and women the respect and help they so desperately need. Another example of Obama's distain for the military and his alliance with radical Muslims.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd be happy if she'd just stay away from the computer.



Cindy S said:


> I have no idea what you are smoking, but you need to put it down and go to rehab.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So the only way to stop them is by becoming them, morally and tactically (give or take a few cultural and religious differences)? Then what are we?


 :evil: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the behind.



lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


MOOOOOOve on, COW. Do some research on the Purple Heart.
The only thing malicious I see here is your hate for the President.

Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'

Keep movin', movin', movin',
Though they're disapprovin',
Keep them doggies movin' Rawhide!
Don't try to understand 'em,
Just rope and throw and brand' em,
Soon we'll be living high and wide.

Move 'em on, head 'em up,
Head 'em up, move 'em out,
Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


The case could be made that the Marine who killed his (estranged or ex wife) and her family was a domestic terrorist.

Talk to me about the sanctity of their lives.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


The case could be made that the Marine who killed his (estranged or ex wife) and her family was a domestic terrorist.

Talk to me about the sanctity of their lives.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


There's a big difference between a terrorist act and the actions of a single madman. Just because some of your more creative right-wing sources say it was an act of terrorism doesn't make it so.

You and the other COWs may talk about honor, but you have no idea what honor means.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


Lovethelake
Still waiting to hear if the lone Marine who killed wife and her family is a domestic terrorist.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> MOOOOOOve on, COW. Do some research on the Purple Heart.
> The only thing malicious I see here is your hate for the President.
> 
> Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
> ...


:thumbup: :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


lovethelake
Lord oh Lord, your evaluations are astonishing and your hatred for President Obama very revealing. You hate people of color with a passion full of poison. Has the Snake from the Garden of Eden surfaced? It sure sounds like it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a big difference between a terrorist act and the actions of a single madman. Just because some of your more creative right-wing sources say it was an act of terrorism doesn't make it so.
> 
> You and the other COWs may talk about honor, but you have no idea what honor means.


 Add Truth, Empathy, True Christian Values, and many others.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Lovethelake
> Still waiting to hear if the lone Marine who killed wife and her family is a domestic terrorist.


<whispering....looks like another hit and run. I thought it is a valid point. >


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup:


Love that Rowdy Yates! Sing along.

Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'

Keep movin', movin', movin',
Though they're disapprovin',
Keep them doggies movin' Rawhide!
Don't try to understand 'em,
Just rope and throw and brand' em,
Soon we'll be living high and wide.

Move 'em on, head 'em up,
Head 'em up, move 'em out,
Move 'em on, head 'em out Rawhide!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good insight.



Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Lord oh Lord, your evaluations are astonishing and your hatred for President Obama very revealing. You hate people of color with a passion full of poison. Has the Snake from the Garden of Eden surfaced? It sure sounds like it.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Lord oh Lord, your evaluations are astonishing and your hatred for President Obama very revealing. You hate people of color with a passion full of poison. Has the Snake from the Garden of Eden surfaced? It sure sounds like it.


Would it be an insult to all snakes to say that LTL is the snake?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Love that Rowdy Yates! Sing along.
> 
> Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
> 
> ...


What about

Hit the road Jack.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Add Truth, Empathy, True Christian Values, and many others.


Please, do you really expect all that from a COW?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Snakes have enough problems. IMO Let's cut them a break.



EveMCooke said:


> Would it be an insult to all snakes to say that LTL is the snake?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OOOOOO. That's a good one too.



EveMCooke said:


> What about
> 
> Hit the road Jack.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't expect MOO from these COWS.



Poor Purl said:


> Please, do you really expect all that from a COW?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I don't understand why you guys carry on like this. Why not just argue the issues? Does this add to your life, or take away from it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO when the issues are important ones and the other party will not/ cannot address the issues, you discuss the issues any way you can. I agree that sometimes it is best to withdraw after stating your position. And sometimes you get so disgusted you just say so.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO when the issues are important ones and the other party will not/ cannot address the issues, you discuss the issues any way you can. I agree that sometimes it is best to withdraw after stating your position. And sometimes you get so disgusted you just say so.


Well, I certainly agree with this! (if it stopped there)


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> If they are Muslims that support radical Islamic terrorism then a case could be made that you are.
> 
> Love how you and all the other AOLW resort to personal attacks when you can not refute the facts. The fact is that what happened at Fort Hood was an act of terrorism, and the failure of this administration to not correctly identify it for what it was has cost the victims and their families the honor, services, financial help and respect due to them. What other conclusion could one make when an administration knowingly and maliciously does not give honor where honor was (and still is) owed and families were devastated? Where our soldiers were gunned down in the name of Allah just because they were soldiers? That is not workplace violence.


You'll reject anything I say about the current administration. However, couldn't what happened at Fort Hood be both workplace violence and terrorism? Seems to be so, IMO.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You'll reject anything I say about the current administration. However, couldn't what happened at Fort Hood be both workplace violence and terrorism? Seems to be so, IMO.


IMO, you need to look to the agenda to differentiate between the two. Was he angry with his coworkers because he felt that they'd harmed him in some way? Or was his intent, to commit an act of terror? To kill for political reasons?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Would it be an insult to all snakes to say that LTL is the snake?


EveMCooke
every Barrel has one rotten Apple.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, you need to look to the agenda to differentiate between the two. Was he angry with his coworkers because he felt that they'd harmed him in some way? Or was his intent, to commit an act of terror? To kill for political reasons?


Knitter from Nebraska
he had workplace issues and it has become obvious why. He was deranged. Hard enough to work but to work with an Idiot is very taxing.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand why you guys carry on like this. Why not just argue the issues? Does this add to your life, or take away from it?


Knitter from Nebraska
why not just bow out until we are finished.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> why not just bow out until we are finished.


Because it never seems to be finished. I try really hard to ignore the crap, but it goes on for days. What's the point? Does anyone gain anything?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It could also be argued that innocent people are dead either way.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, you need to look to the agenda to differentiate between the two. Was he angry with his coworkers because he felt that they'd harmed him in some way? Or was his intent, to commit an act of terror? To kill for political reasons?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> he had workplace issues and it has become obvious why. He was deranged. Hard enough to work but to work with an Idiot is very taxing.


And very dangerous for bystanders. People who know the danger have no recourse. Who do they call, Ghostbusters?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Because it never seems to be finished. I try really hard to ignore the crap, but it goes on for days. What's the point? Does anyone gain anything?


It could be said that lies do not go unchallenged. That is important to many. If it's not enough for you, knit for awhile or bake.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, you need to look to the agenda to differentiate between the two. Was he angry with his coworkers because he felt that they'd harmed him in some way? Or was his intent, to commit an act of terror? To kill for political reasons?


Or was he simply a lone madman wanting to hurt whoever was around, like the guy in Sandy Hook?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> he had workplace issues and it has become obvious why. He was deranged. Hard enough to work but to work with an Idiot is very taxing.


That's what I suspected. Thanks for the support, Huck.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> It could also be argued that innocent people are dead either way.


If it would be classified as terrorism, the survivors and the injured would receive benefits comparable to those they would receive if they'd been killed or injured in combat. Don't you think that these people should be fully cared for? IMO, they were injured in the line of duty. They deserve whatever treatments and therapies they need, at no expense to themselves.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> It could be said that lies do not go unchallenged. That is important to many. If it's not enough for you, knit for awhile or bake.


I have never complained about anyone challenging lies. I do it myself.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Or was he simply a lone madman wanting to hurt whoever was around, like the guy in Sandy Hook?


Considering the fact that the NSA was already monitoring him because he was corresponding by e-mail, with Anwar al Awlaki (a known terrorist), AND the fact that right before he started killing people, he shouted "allahu akbar", I think it's pretty obvious that he was a terrorist.

According to Mother Jones Magazine, in Nidal's correspondence with al Awlaki, he asked al Awlaki whether he considered someone who attacked their fellow soldiers, a martyr. He also asked whether indiscriminately killing civilians was allowed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Because it never seems to be finished. I try really hard to ignore the crap, but it goes on for days. What's the point? Does anyone gain anything?


Knitter from Nebraska
One Person's Owl is another one's Nightingale. You have the freedom to choose.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Any thoughts on resuming relationship with Cuba??


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Considering the fact that the NSA was already monitoring him because he was corresponding by e-mail, with Anwar al Awlaki (a known terrorist), AND the fact that right before he started killing people, he shouted "allahu akbar", I think it's pretty obvious that he was a terrorist.
> 
> According to Mother Jones Magazine, in Nidal's correspondence with al Awlaki, he asked al Awlaki whether he considered someone who attacked their fellow soldiers, a martyr. He also asked whether indiscriminately killing civilians was allowed.[/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Any thoughts on resuming relationship with Cuba??


BrattyPatty
why did it take so long? Should have happened long, long ago. Our Cuban Friends are celebrating. They have longed to have the freedom to visit "home" for decades. We have seen them mourn deeply when a Parent died and they could not go and pay their last respect to them. Hallelujah, let Freedom, ring.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If it would be classified as terrorism, the survivors and the injured would receive benefits comparable to those they would receive if they'd been killed or injured in combat. Don't you think that these people should be fully cared for? IMO, they were injured in the line of duty. They deserve whatever treatments and therapies they need, at no expense to themselves.


Knitter from Nebraska
your bloomers are getting too twisted. Anyone anywhere for whatever reason should be cared for and if need be, at no cost to themselves. You should know by now that we LIBERALS always see things that way.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's what I suspected. Thanks for the support, Huck.


Poor Purl
my pleasure.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> your bloomers are getting too twisted. Anyone anywhere for whatever reason should be cared for and if need be, at no cost to themselves. You should know by now that we LIBERALS always see things that way.


That's what I thought. But giving it the designation of "workplace violence" means that they won't receive the full benefits of combat.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So the only way to stop them is by becoming them, morally and tactically (give or take a few cultural and religious differences)? Then what are we?


Just until we get the job done. If you also want to see the ISIS flag flying over the White House, then hide your head in the dirt as well. The pose will look just as attractive on you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand why you guys carry on like this. Why not just argue the issues? Does this add to your life, or take away from it?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> why did it take so long? Should have happened long, long ago. Our Cuban Friends are celebrating. They have longed to have the freedom to visit "home" for decades. We have seen them mourn deeply when a Parent died and they could not go and pay their last respect to them. Hallelujah, let Freedom, ring.


Agreed. Isolating Cuba didn't achieve anything.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, you need to look to the agenda to differentiate between the two. Was he angry with his coworkers because he felt that they'd harmed him in some way? Or was his intent, to commit an act of terror? To kill for political reasons?


I would say that his chanting in Arabic before opening fire puts this in the terrorist category.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


It goes both ways!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It goes both ways!


Thank you for that, KFN! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If it would be classified as terrorism, the survivors and the injured would receive benefits comparable to those they would receive if they'd been killed or injured in combat. Don't you think that these people should be fully cared for? IMO, they were injured in the line of duty. They deserve whatever treatments and therapies they need, at no expense to themselves.


Do you think that's what the 9/11 families got? I have news for you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just until we get the job done. If you also want to see the ISIS flag flying over the White House, then hide your head in the dirt as well. The pose will look just as attractive on you.


You should know that once we go down that road, we'll never get off it, and all that has made this country great is lost.

As for the rest of your message, would it be abuse on my part to tell you you're a jerk? Just asking.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I would say that his chanting in Arabic before opening fire puts this in the terrorist category.


Really. Does that mean that all mosques are full of terrorists? The creep chanted in Arabic because it's his native language.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Or was he simply a lone madman wanting to hurt whoever was around, like the guy in Sandy Hook?


Like the guy in Sydney the other day?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand why you guys carry on like this. Why not just argue the issues? Does this add to your life, or take away from it?


Finally, you have noticed the way the Libs act. I believe they are simply incapable and, therefore, never discuss the issues, but simply spread their hate and bully and insult others, of course, only those with whom they do not agree. Most KPers who have been on this site awhile know these facts.

I'm glad you have made note of what I, for one, attempted to explain to you probably a year or more ago. You didn't want to except what I explained to you but it seems you have seen the light. Merry Christmas!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, you have noticed the way the Libs act. I believe they are simply incapable and, therefore, never discuss the issues, but simply spread their hate and bully and insult others, of course, only those with whom they do not agree. Most KPers who have been on this site awhile know these facts.
> 
> I'm glad you have made note of what I, for one, attempted to explain to you probably a year or more ago. You didn't want to except what I explained to you but it seems you have seen the light. Merry Christmas!


Go have another drink, KPG. Your "I told you so's" are not welcome or appreciated here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I apologize. You do question liars.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have never complained about anyone challenging lies. I do it myself.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's wonderful. It's time we start talking to them and lifting embargo. And just think how angry the land of the hanging chads will be!



BrattyPatty said:


> Any thoughts on resuming relationship with Cuba??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Agreed. Isolating Cuba didn't achieve anything.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Really. Does that mean that all mosques are full of terrorists? The creep chanted in Arabic because it's his native language.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thank you for that, KFN! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


No need to thank me.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just until we get the job done. If you also want to see the ISIS flag flying over the White House, then hide your head in the dirt as well. The pose will look just as attractive on you.


soloweygirl
Seeing Ghosts in your Room and hearing voices?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Agreed. Isolating Cuba didn't achieve anything.


DGreen
remember when Nixon went to China? The mildest they called him was Traitor and that was the same bunch trying to crucify President Obama who likes to make a path for a better Life for the Cubans. Half a century of suffering is too much.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> remember when Nixon went to China? The mildest they called him was Traitor and that was the same bunch trying to crucify President Obama who likes to make a path for a better Life for the Cubans. Half a century of suffering is too much.


And the GOP thought he would be a lame duck President. He sure fulled them. Even the Pope got involved in this and it is way past due. The Cuban people have suffered enough and the embargo did no good for anyone. I think Castro has had it with Putin too and doesn't want any more to do with him.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And the GOP thought he would be a lame duck President. He sure fulled them. Even the Pope got involved in this and it is way past due. The Cuban people have suffered enough and the embargo did no good for anyone. I think Castro has had it with Putin too and doesn't want any more to do with him.


Hi Cheeky!! Lovely to see you! I agree. Did you hear Marco Rubio rant about this afternoon?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, you have noticed the way the Libs act. I believe they are simply incapable and, therefore, never discuss the issues, but simply spread their hate and bully and insult others, of course, only those with whom they do not agree. Most KPers who have been on this site awhile know these facts.
> 
> I'm glad you have made note of what I, for one, attempted to explain to you probably a year or more ago. You didn't want to *except* what I explained to you but it seems you have seen the light. Merry Christmas!


ETA - sorry, made a typo s/b "accept"


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Cheeky!! Lovely to see you! I agree. Did you hear Marco Rubio rant about this afternoon?


It was really something to hear. That guy is very wishy washy on his foreign policy.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you think that's what the 9/11 families got? I have news for you.


The 911 families got on average $2 million, tax free! How much life insurance do you think the military pays out for workplace violence?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You should know that once we go down that road, we'll never get off it, and all that has made this country great is lost.
> 
> Agree!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Really. Does that mean that all mosques are full of terrorists? The creep chanted in Arabic because it's his native language.


Nidal Hassan was an American. He was born in Arlington County, Virginia. English is his native language.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, you have noticed the way the Libs act. I believe they are simply incapable and, therefore, never discuss the issues, but simply spread their hate and bully and insult others, of course, only those with whom they do not agree. Most KPers who have been on this site awhile know these facts.
> 
> I'm glad you have made note of what I, for one, attempted to explain to you probably a year or more ago. You didn't want to except what I explained to you but it seems you have seen the light. Merry Christmas!


And here you are! Doing the same thing!!! Just go away!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go have another drink, KPG. Your "I told you so's" are not welcome or appreciated here.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I apologize. You do question liars.


No apology necessary!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think it's wonderful. It's time we start talking to them and lifting embargo. And just think how angry the land of the hanging chads will be!


Were there reasons other than the Cuban Missile Crisis, for the sanctions against Cuba?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And the GOP thought he would be a lame duck President. He sure fulled them. Even the Pope got involved in this and it is way past due. The Cuban people have suffered enough and the embargo did no good for anyone. I think Castro has had it with Putin too and doesn't want any more to do with him.


Cheeky Blighter
even an Atheist has to love this Pope. He has a Heart and he is willing to ruffle some feathers.
Do some folks really think that President Obama would be a lame duck in his last 2 years in Office? I predicted years ago that he will go down in History as one of our finest Presidents and he is outshining most of his predecessors already. As to Marco Rubio, he is and always will be small fry. When you begin your job by lying, it is hard for anyone to believe you ever.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> even an Atheist has to love this Pope. He has a Heart and he is willing to ruffle some feathers.
> Do some folks really think that President Obama would be a lame duck in his last 2 years in Office? I predicted years ago that he will go down in History as one of our finest Presidents and he is outshining most of his predecessors already. As to Marco Rubio, he is and always will be small fry. When you begin your job by lying, it is hard for anyone to believe you ever.


Huck, Rubio is like a bad little boy and not too bright either. He has backed himself into a corner on the Cuba issue and that is just where he should stay so he can do no further harm. He can't even speak about the issue intelligently and yet he has the nerve to "correct" others when he understands so little himself. He is a poor excuse for a politician. Even one in the GOP. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Were there reasons other than the Cuban Missile Crisis, for the sanctions against Cuba?


KFN, I read this article earlier. I hope it answers your question.
http://www.http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891359,00.html


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Were there reasons other than the Cuban Missile Crisis, for the sanctions against Cuba?


dp


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> KFN, I read this article earlier. I hope it answers your question.
> http://www.http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891359,00.html


Thanks, Patty! I read the article. It sounds as if we gave them their independence but then wanted to control them??? There must be more to it, for all of this to have taken place before the Cuban missile crisis. Now I'm wondering how any of what obama is doing, will benefit the US.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And here you are! Doing the same thing!!! Just go away!


What the heck is wrong with you? You made a statement, repeated it, and I agreed with you. So then you bash me (as you usually do).

If you cannot handle people's opinions and the truth and facts, even when someone agrees with your own, you don't need to be heard and should remove *yourself* from the discussion rather than attempt to dismiss me AGAIN.

You claimed you're unhappy reading the Libs' posts as you said they repeatedly insult others, you questioned why they do so more than once, and what it adds to their lives and then followed their lead in your words to me. I didn't do as you claim; you always chastise me and don't even know yourself. You simply cannot speak the truth!

Hypocrite seems to be the appropriate word to describe you.

I probably haven't posted to you in nearly a year, and now I'm remembering why I don't nor bother to read so, therefore, don't respond to the majority of your posts. I'm remembering your constant conspiracy theories, the hypocrisy, the falsehoods, the inaccurate claims and judgements that you so love to express.

Go ahead and don't discuss the issues or the facts, keep on insulting me and be exactly like those you claim to dislike for their same actions.

It is impossible for you to show and have the Christian spirit you claim. Apparently, I offended you by agreeing with you and wishing you a Merry Christmas during this most joyous season.

I cannot 'unwrite' the words and as a Christian still offer the greetings of the season.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Like the guy in Sydney the other day?


That's right.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, you have noticed the way the Libs act. I believe they are simply incapable and, therefore, never discuss the issues, but simply spread their hate and bully and insult others, of course, only those with whom they do not agree. Most KPers who have been on this site awhile know these facts.
> 
> I'm glad you have made note of what I, for one, attempted to explain to you probably a year or more ago. You didn't want to except what I explained to you but it seems you have seen the light. Merry Christmas!


Happy Chanukah to you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go have another drink, KPG. Your "I told you so's" are not welcome or appreciated here.


Nor have they anything to do with the truth.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck, Rubio is like a bad little boy and not too bright either. He has backed himself into a corner on the Cuba issue and that is just where he should stay so he can do no further harm. He can't even speak about the issue intelligently and yet he has the nerve to "correct" others when he understands so little himself. He is a poor excuse for a politician. Even one in the GOP. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Then I guess he fits in with the rest of them just fine!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Nor have they anything to do with the truth.


Is it time to visit D&P again? Some people just don't know when to shut up.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Cheeky!! Lovely to see you! I agree. Did you hear Marco Rubio rant about this afternoon?


I missed that, Patty. I'll have to go look for it. What's he going to do when he's no longer the only Cuban in politics?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And the GOP thought he would be a lame duck President. He sure fulled them. Even the Pope got involved in this and it is way past due. The Cuban people have suffered enough and the embargo did no good for anyone. I think Castro has had it with Putin too and doesn't want any more to do with him.


It's about time!

Hi, Cheeky. Good to see your elegant feline face again.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it time to visit D&P again? Some people just don't know when to shut up.


Yes, but this time don't hold back. Much too polite last time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes, but this time don't hold back. Much too polite last time.


She is trolling for it AGAIN.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The 911 families got on average $2 million, tax free! How much life insurance do you think the military pays out for workplace violence?


Surely not all. Three thousand people died; that comes to $6 billion. Hm, maybe you're right. On the other hand, for the ones who were harmed but lived, they've had to fight to get any care paid for. One of them, Susanmos's brother, is going into hospice today, for a cancer he contracted by breathing in the rubble at Ground Zero.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > You should know that once we go down that road, we'll never get off it, and all that has made this country great is lost.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nidal Hassan was an American. He was born in Arlington County, Virginia. English is his native language.


This is what happens when I don't bother to check. I could say it was his Bizarro native language, but instead I'll say sorry.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And here you are! Doing the same thing!!! Just go away!




Would you prefer the dominatrix?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck, Rubio is like a bad little boy and not too bright either. He has backed himself into a corner on the Cuba issue and that is just where he should stay so he can do no further harm. He can't even speak about the issue intelligently and yet he has the nerve to "correct" others when he understands so little himself. He is a poor excuse for a politician. Even one in the GOP. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Cheeky Blighter
I totally agree with you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> .


Okay, Designer. We see you have your period. Oops.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, Designer. We see you have your period. Oops.


 :shock: LOl


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Patty! I read the article. It sounds as if we gave them their independence but then wanted to control them??? There must be more to it, for all of this to have taken place before the Cuban missile crisis. Now I'm wondering how any of what obama is doing, will benefit the US.


Knitter from Nebraska
just think KFN, if for example North Korea would take hold of Cuba what that would mean to us. A scary scenario and it could easily happen since Cuba is needy in many ways. That thought should have entered prev. President's mind. We are actually lucky that there is no more Mother Russia and Putin can not afford to support Cuba any longer. The time to befriend the Cuban Government is NOW. We cannot waste it. I am absolutely thrilled that we are reaching out to Castro and he is decent to confer with us.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is trolling for it AGAIN.


Is she doing it elsewhere? We can't keep her out of here, though I hope there's some air freshener around.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Is she doing it elsewhere? We can't keep her out of here, though I hope there's some air freshener around.


Just the topics we are posting in as usual.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Were there reasons other than the Cuban Missile Crisis, for the sanctions against Cuba?


Yes, the sanctions began before the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The Cuban Missile crisis was from October 14th, 1962 to October 28th, 1962.

The US commercial, economic, and financial embargo against Cuba is said to have begun on 19th October, 1960, two years prior to this and two years after the US supported Batista regime was deposed.

Prior to this, in March, 1958, the US had put in place an arms embargo when armed conflict broke out in Cuba between rebels and the US backed Batista regime.

In July 1960, in response to Cuba's new revolutionary government's seizure of U.S. properties, the United States reduced the Cuban import quota of brown sugar to 700,000 tons, under the Sugar Act of 1948; the Soviet Union responded by agreeing to purchase the sugar instead, as Cuba's new government continued to take further actions to nationalize American businesses and privately owned properties.

In response to the Cuban alignment with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, President John F. Kennedy extended and widened the scope of the trade restrictions. He did this by Executive Order on February 8 1962.

According to his press secretary, Pierre Salinger, Kennedy asked Salinger to purchase 1,200 Cuban cigars for his, Kennedys, future use. He asked Salinger to make the purchase immediately before the extended embargo was to come into effect. Salinger was successful, he returning in the morning with 1,201 Petit H. Upmann cigars, Kennedy's favourite cigar.

Following the Cuban Missile Crisis, Kennedy imposed travel restrictions on February 8, 1963, and the Cuban Assets Control Regulations were issued on July 8, 1963, under the Trading with the Enemy Act in response to Cubans hosting Soviet nuclear weapons. Under these restrictions, Cuban assets in the U.S. were frozen and the existing restrictions were consolidated.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, the sanctions began before the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> 
> The Cuban Missile crisis was from October 14th, 1962 to October 28th, 1962.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is true, Eve, Thanks for posting.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it time to visit D&P again? Some people just don't know when to shut up.


 Sorry but not today. Just put some Nestles milk or honey on their dummies, or do you prefer the term pacifiers, that should stop their blubbering.

Most of their posts can be reduced to one sentence. "boo hoo, me cwying now 'cause you being nasty to me again and me gunna tell my mummy on you, so there".


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, the sanctions began before the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> 
> The Cuban Missile crisis was from October 14th, 1962 to October 28th, 1962.
> 
> ...


EveMCooke
thank you very much, I needed a refresher course on Cuba. Our Politicians have messed that situation up so much that it takes some doing to keep track of it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but not today. Just put some Nestles milk or honey on their dummies, or do you prefer the term pacifiers, that should stop their blubbering.
> 
> Most of their posts can be reduced to one sentence. "boo hoo, me cwying now 'cause you being nasty to me again and me gunna tell my mummy on you, so there".


LOL! Isn't that the truth! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> thank you very much, I needed a refresher course on Cuba. Our Politicians have messed that situation up so much that it takes some doing to keep track of it.


I will pass your thanks on to Kai. He inherited my love of history and with his high functioning autism, aspergers, he is a stickler for facts. I mentioned the query about the Cuban sanctions and he disappeared with his ipad. He then sent me an email with the details he found, and boy was he quick. I think this is why he did not last very long in the LDS church. Someone would say something and he would reply that he did not agree with them and he would go away and find the facts and come back and tell the person that they were incorrect. He presents his facts as facts, blunt and to the point, he does not pretty up his presentations with unnecessary honeyed words. That is typical of high functioning autism, facts but not good with the face to face communications.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, that is true, Eve, Thanks for posting.


I will pass on your thank to Kai. He is the one who researched the topic after I mentioned that someone had raised a question about the sanctions, he loves the challenge of researching facts. He is very quick at getting results.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I will pass on your thank to Kai. He is the one who researched the topic after I mentioned that someone had raised a question about the sanctions, he loves the challenge of researching facts. He is very quick at getting results.


He is an amazing person. My nephew has autism. He never fails to amaze me with his knowledge, extensive memory, and his smile. We talk once a week for hours. He's only 11 but sometimes I forget and it feels like I am talking to an adult.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Surely not all. Three thousand people died; that comes to $6 billion. Hm, maybe you're right. On the other hand, for the ones who were harmed but lived, they've had to fight to get any care paid for. One of them, Susanmos's brother, is going into hospice today, for a cancer he contracted by breathing in the rubble at Ground Zero.


So sad for Susan and her brother.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. At least I got something right today.


Aw, cmon. You've gotten a few !


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So sad for Susan and her brother.


Yes it is. He is so young and she loves him very much. It's been hard on her :-(


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is what happens when I don't bother to check. I could say it was his Bizarro native language, but instead I'll say sorry.


Oh, don't apologize! You should see how tickled I was when I read your comment. I knew I'd gotten you on that one. Point to me! Ahahahahahahahaha! I have to say, I love it when you make it easy!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Would you prefer the dominatrix?


??? NO!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, Designer. We see you have your period. Oops.


LOL!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Surely not all. Three thousand people died; that comes to $6 billion. Hm, maybe you're right. On the other hand, for the ones who were harmed but lived, they've had to fight to get any care paid for. One of them, Susanmos's brother, is going into hospice today, for a cancer he contracted by breathing in the rubble at Ground Zero.


Oh, that's just awful. I am sorry to hear that Mos. Sending hugs to you, your brother and family. Take care of yourself.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, Designer. We see you have your period. Oops.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, the sanctions began before the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> 
> The Cuban Missile crisis was from October 14th, 1962 to October 28th, 1962.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Eve! And thanks to Kai! Once I started reading, I'd realized that I'd heard the info before, what with the Bay of Pigs and all that. But it was good to have a refresher and a timeline to put it all into perspective.

I think the thing that's bothering me is the cycle I'm seeing. First we're friends, then we're enemies, then we're friends again. It's too Orwellian for me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I will pass your thanks on to Kai. He inherited my love of history and with his high functioning autism, aspergers, he is a stickler for facts. I mentioned the query about the Cuban sanctions and he disappeared with his ipad. He then sent me an email with the details he found, and boy was he quick. I think this is why he did not last very long in the LDS church. Someone would say something and he would reply that he did not agree with them and he would go away and find the facts and come back and tell the person that they were incorrect. He presents his facts as facts, blunt and to the point, he does not pretty up his presentations with unnecessary honeyed words. That is typical of high functioning autism, facts but not good with the face to face communications.


"Blunt and to the point", that's my kind of guy!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> "Blunt and to the point", that's my kind of guy!


Until he has an autistic meltdown and throws an autistic spas. Not a happy sight. I usually recognise the signs and give him coffee and protein and withdraw completely. I just make the coffee and cook the protein, usually sausages, tell him it is there and either go for a walk if it is in the day or go to my bedroom and go to bed if it is as night. Some people who do not understand have told me that I should stop him, take command, etc, but no this will only make things worse. It is far better to quickly remove anything that can be thrown and withdraw. I am used to it, he has been having them since before he was 2 years of age and no they were not 2 year old temper tantrums. He would sometimes go three days without sleeping, he did not need the sleep, the falling asleep phase was all he needed.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Until he has an autistic meltdown and throws an autistic spas. Not a happy sight. I usually recognise the signs and give him coffee and protein and withdraw completely. I just make the coffee and cook the protein, usually sausages, tell him it is there and either go for a walk if it is in the day or go to my bedroom and go to bed if it is as night. Some people who do not understand have told me that I should stop him, take command, etc, but no this will only make things worse. It is far better to quickly remove anything that can be thrown and withdraw. I am used to it, he has been having them since before he was 2 years of age and no they were not 2 year old temper tantrums. He would sometimes go three days without sleeping, he did not need the sleep, the falling asleep phase was all he needed.


I've done a lot of reading about Autism, particularly Aspergers, so I'm familiar with what you're saying. Both a blessing and a curse, so to speak. I think my grandson has Aspergers. He was diagnosed with Sensory Perception Disorder, which many say, is just another name for autism. He fits the Aspergers to a tee, except he doesn't have the meltdowns.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've done a lot of reading about Autism, particularly Aspergers, so I'm familiar with what you're saying. Both a blessing and a curse, so to speak. I think my grandson has Aspergers. He was diagnosed with Sensory Perception Disorder, which many say, is just another name for autism. He fits the Aspergers to a tee, except he doesn't have the meltdowns.


My son's case was complicated by his minor brain injury when he was born. He did not breathe for 6 minutes. He has damage to the right temporal lobe and the right parietal lobe, so was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy when he was 4 weeks old. Temporal lobe epilepsy manifests itself as temper tantrum meltdowns rather than grand mal fits.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> My son's case was complicated by his minor brain injury when he was born. He did not breathe for 6 minutes. He has damage to the right temporal lobe and the right parietal lobe, so was diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy when he was 4 weeks old. Temporal lobe epilepsy manifests itself as temper tantrum meltdowns rather than grand mal fits.


My grandson had a congenital heart problem. He had to have open heart surgery at three days old.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> remember when Nixon went to China? The mildest they called him was Traitor and that was the same bunch trying to crucify President Obama who likes to make a path for a better Life for the Cubans. Half a century of suffering is too much.


A path to a better life for the Cubans will have to be seen. The past has shown that the Castro brothers do not have the best interest of Cubans as their main interest. Cubans might not have been able to deal with America, but those they have been allowed to deal with have not made Cuba a robust economy. America is not to blame for their suffering, the Castro brothers are to blame for that.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but not today. Just put some Nestles milk or honey on their dummies, or do you prefer the term pacifiers, that should stop their blubbering.
> 
> Most of their posts can be reduced to one sentence. "boo hoo, me cwying now 'cause you being nasty to me again and me gunna tell my mummy on you, so there".


If that's true, then why are you the ones crying about leaving the site because they are being mean to you? Grow up.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> A path to a better life for the Cubans will have to be seen. The past has shown that the Castro brothers do not have the best interest of Cubans as their main interest. Cubans might not have been able to deal with America, but those they have been allowed to deal with have not made Cuba a robust economy. America is not to blame for their suffering, the Castro brothers are to blame for that.


soloweygirl
you sound like Cheney. The Cubans will have a better future with our help and once the Castros bite the dust which should not be too far off.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, don't apologize! You should see how tickled I was when I read your comment. I knew I'd gotten you on that one. Point to me! Ahahahahahahahaha! I have to say, I love it when you make it easy!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


>


I wish I had one of those! :lol:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but not today. Just put some Nestles milk or honey on their dummies, or do you prefer the term pacifiers, that should stop their blubbering.
> 
> Most of their posts can be reduced to one sentence. "boo hoo, me cwying now 'cause you being nasty to me again and me gunna tell my mummy on you, so there".


I agree l00% with Eve. We play into her hands as it upsets them all and they believe more strongly how wonderful she is. Also there are those on D and P who are not involved in attacking. I just think it best to leave them alone. I like the idea of pacifiers for a few of them though. I can think of three or four right, Eve? Oh well, life is too short.

I am glad the States has lifted the embargo on Cuba. I think it is good for you all. Rubio is an idiot. I would love to have a real discussion on it but our rightwingers don't discuss. Most speak from the same place and a discussion is not part of their vocabulary. All I am going to say about that.

I guess us Furriners will have to stand together on this.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I had one of those! :lol:


I have one - Purl gave it to me. I am such a sweetie I don't use it but then that is only my opinion. At times it is the only thing that expresses the feelings.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you sound like Cheney. The Cubans will have a better future with our help and once the Castros bite the dust which should not be too far off.


This is a legitimate question because I don't know the answer. Have you got an embargo on North Korea, and other countries like them. Has Cuba ever threatened to attack you?

I knew more about that situation when it was happening. We get along very well with them as I mentioned previously. We didn't think it was a good idea - and I remembering reading the news at that time. I am glad we took the road we did.

DIL flies there all the time with her job. Says there is a lot of poverty, and the new Castro is tough, but not disliked as much as Fidel. (she is no expert but has spent some time there and it is only her opinion) that information and opinion is for what it is worth.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:


I wish!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A path to a better life for the Cubans will have to be seen. The past has shown that the Castro brothers do not have the best interest of Cubans as their main interest. Cubans might not have been able to deal with America, but those they have been allowed to deal with have not made Cuba a robust economy. America is not to blame for their suffering, the Castro brothers are to blame for that.


Has anyone accused America of being responsible? If you are talking about my post that is not what I meant. I think that an embargo since the sixties is a bit interesting when embargos have been put on and then taken off countries for years by the US. I don't think that Cuba is really a threat to the US but I could be looking at it incorrectly. Do you think it is? serious question.

I don't particularly care for Castro - either one of them but it what negative effect does it have on the US? I read from Eve's post that they took over the US businesses there, and I remember the Bay of pigs which at the time seemed to be a real threat. Most people felt it was a good reason for the embargo by the States if I remember correctly. However that was long ago. What negative effect do you expect , now?(I really want to know).


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> This is a legitimate question because I don't know the answer. Have you got an embargo on North Korea, and other countries like them. Has Cuba ever threatened to attack you?


Not Cuba itself, but the Russians threatening to use nuclear weapons they had deployed in Cuba (the Cubans had requested the presence of the missiles, though). Known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy didn't blink and they backed down.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Not Cuba itself, but the Russians threatening to use nuclear weapons they had deployed in Cuba (the Cubans had requested the presence of the missiles, though). Known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy didn't blink and they backed down.


Thanks I remember that now and I also just looked it up.

Do you think that it is a good idea to remove the embargos?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If that's true, then why are you the ones crying about leaving the site because they are being mean to you? Grow up.












I wondered whether you would answer my legitimate question.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks I remember that now and I also just looked it up.
> 
> Do you think that it is a good idea to remove the embargos?


Yes, I do. It's been over 50 years since it started. We were the ones, I think, that had an embargo in place. Even with other countries still dealing with them they declined drastically so I doubt they pose any more threat to us.

*ETA: I meant say the only ones, not the ones.* :-D


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks I remember that now and I also just looked it up.
> 
> Do you think that it is a good idea to remove the embargos?


Yes, remove the embargos. They have failed to achieve anything for over 50 years. Except, maybe, to make life even more difficult for Cuban citizens.

If the US is so outraged by dictators, why do we still have relationships with China and Russia and...(add to the list as you will). According to the right-wing screeching this action will somehow strengthen Castro. If that logic is valid, we strengthen a lot of people like Castro.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, remove the embargos. They have failed to achieve anything for over 50 years. Except, maybe, to make life even more difficult for Cuban citizens.
> 
> If the US is so outraged by dictators, why do we still have relationships with China and Russia and...(add to the list as you will). According to the right-wing screeching this action will somehow strengthen Castro. If that logic is valid, we strengthen a lot of people like Castro.


Our outrage is selective. We supported a different dictator for Cuba and got in a snit because they chose a different one.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Not Cuba itself, but the Russians threatening to use nuclear weapons they had deployed in Cuba (the Cubans had requested the presence of the missiles, though). Known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy didn't blink and they backed down.


Yes Kennedy was ready to have a nuclear war. Good thing the second in command of the Russian nuclear sub said WAIT. 
And who in the heck do you all think Bautista was in bed with? American corporations and the Mafia to victimize the Cuban poor for huge profits.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> This is a legitimate question because I don't know the answer. Have you got an embargo on North Korea, and other countries like them. Has Cuba ever threatened to attack you?
> 
> I knew more about that situation when it was happening. We get along very well with them as I mentioned previously. We didn't think it was a good idea - and I remembering reading the news at that time. I am glad we took the road we did.
> 
> DIL flies there all the time with her job. Says there is a lot of poverty, and the new Castro is tough, but not disliked as much as Fidel. (she is no expert but has spent some time there and it is only her opinion) that information and opinion is for what it is worth.


I guess you never heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kennedy-announces-blockade-of-cuba-during-the-missile-crisis


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Yes Kennedy was ready to have a nuclear war. Good thing the second in command of the Russian nuclear sub said WAIT.
> And who in the heck do you all think Bautista was in bed with? American corporations and the Mafia to victimize the Cuban poor for huge profits.


I pointed this out in the post just above yours. We have a long history of setting up the dictators we want that will serve our wishes in other countries.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I guess you never heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> 
> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kennedy-announces-blockade-of-cuba-during-the-missile-crisis


yes I did hear of it. I was around when it happened. I have been around I would think, much longer than you. I don't know your age, but you seem like a child to me. I wasn't really asking you. I was asking Solo, who isn't interested a conversation either. Are you good friends?? you have much in common.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

double post - have no interest in saying it twice.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes, remove the embargos. They have failed to achieve anything for over 50 years. Except, maybe, to make life even more difficult for Cuban citizens.
> 
> If the US is so outraged by dictators, why do we still have relationships with China and Russia and...(add to the list as you will). According to the right-wing screeching this action will somehow strengthen Castro. If that logic is valid, we strengthen a lot of people like Castro.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> yes I did hear of it. I was around when it happened. I have been around I would think, much longer than you. I don't know your age, but you seem like a child to me. I wasn't really asking you. I was asking Solo, who isn't interested a conversation either. Are you good friends?? you have much in common.


you didn't have to ask me this is an open forum. I was around too. I was even in the USA when it happened. Imagine that. What does Solo and my relationship have to do with this? You have much in common with a lot of unsavory characters here. You might not want to throw stones.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> you didn't have to ask me this is an open forum. I was around too. I was even in the USA when it happened. Imagine that. What does Solo and my relationship have to do with this? You have much in common with a lot of unsavory characters here. You might not want to throw stones.


Here we go again - last answer here from me to you.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here we go again - last answer here from me to you.


Wonderful.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, remove the embargos. They have failed to achieve anything for over 50 years. Except, maybe, to make life even more difficult for Cuban citizens.
> 
> If the US is so outraged by dictators, why do we still have relationships with China and Russia and...(add to the list as you will). According to the right-wing screeching this action will somehow strengthen Castro. If that logic is valid, we strengthen a lot of people like Castro.


DGreen
you hit a bulls eye. Thank you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, remove the embargos. They have failed to achieve anything for over 50 years. Except, maybe, to make life even more difficult for Cuban citizens.
> 
> If the US is so outraged by dictators, why do we still have relationships with China and Russia and...(add to the list as you will). According to the right-wing screeching this action will somehow strengthen Castro. If that logic is valid, we strengthen a lot of people like Castro.


I hate to break this to you but I think, I could be wrong on this , but isn't our relationship just a tad bit strained with Russia right now. You have heard about that haven't you?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you hit a bulls eye. Thank you.


Yes she did Huck! She usually does!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> you didn't have to ask me this is an open forum. I was around too. I was even in the USA when it happened. Imagine that. What does Solo and my relationship have to do with this? You have much in common with a lot of unsavory characters here. You might not want to throw stones.


Winding Road
what is the matter poor child? Feel stepped on? Imagine that while you are calling some of us unsavory characters. My oh my.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Winding Road
> what is the matter poor child? Feel stepped on? Imagine that while you are calling some of us unsavory characters. My oh my.


BY whom?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes she did Huck! She usually does!


BrattyPatty
I totally agree. Her postings are always valuable just as yours. I just saw WindingRoad calling us collectively "unsavory characters". Isn't that name calling? Why do some get called on it while others slither by? Partisanship perhaps? Should not a forum like this be neutral at the helm?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> BY whom?


WindingRaod
I am not in the mood to refresh your memory.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> I totally agree. Her postings are always valuable just as yours. I just saw WindingRoad calling us collectively "unsavory characters". Isn't that name calling? Why do some get called on it while others slither by? Partisanship perhaps? Should not a forum like this be neutral at the helm?


How did you know I was referring to you. Feeling guilty?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> I hate to break this to you but I think, I could be wrong on this , but isn't our relationship just a tad bit strained with Russia right now. You have heard about that haven't you?


WindingRoad
Russia's relationship is more than a tad bit strained with Leaders around the World. Putin has some mental issues which are little by little surfacing and smart are those who recognize his problems. It pays to have a smart President.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRaod
> I am not in the mood to refresh your memory.


As if you could.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> Russia's relationship is more than a tad bit strained with Leaders around the World. Putin has some mental issues which are little by little surfacing and smart are those who recognize his problems. It pays to have a smart President.


Read for content.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> How did you know I was referring to you. Feeling guilty?


WindingRoad
would you like to spell out whom you were referring to? Actually not necessary for us but it may give you a little comfort. Go for it.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> would you like to spell out whom you were referring to? Actually not necessary for us but it may give you a little comfort. Go for it.


NOPE.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> As if you could.


WindingRoad
that would be a cinch in your case.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> NOPE.


WindingRoad
now that is the smartest answer you have ever given.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> that would be a cinch in your case.


Knock yourself out. Are you secretly BP and don't want me to know you care?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Knock yourself out. Are you secretly BP and don't want me to know you care?


Huck, she thinks she is doing a great service to KP and all mankind by trolling us. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Sending everyone SEASON's GREETINGS and wish you
ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck, she thinks she is doing a great service to KP and all mankind by trolling us. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


BrattyPatty
some people never learn, do they.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks Huck! 

I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling. 

I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> I hate to break this to you but I think, I could be wrong on this , but isn't our relationship just a tad bit strained with Russia right now. You have heard about that haven't you?


The point is not whether the relationship is strained or cordial or anything else you care to call it. We have a diplomatic relationship and have had for decades. Right wingers are equating diplomatic recognition with "legitimatizing" Castro.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> Russia's relationship is more than a tad bit strained with Leaders around the World. Putin has some mental issues which are little by little surfacing and smart are those who recognize his problems. It pays to have a smart President.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


Wow! That is awesome Shirley!!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


And best wishes for good health and happiness to you!

Your talent is amazing!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


Designer1234
Thank you and for the lovely creation of yours as well. Huck


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The point is not whether the relationship is strained or cordial or anything else you care to call it. We have a diplomatic relationship and have had for decades. Right wingers are equating diplomatic recognition with "legitimatizing" Castro.


DGreen
the meaning of Diplomacy is unknown to the Right Wingers.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Sending everyone SEASON's GREETINGS and wish you
> ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR. Huck


Thank you Huck. Is the art piece one of yours?

And Season's Greetings to you too. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


Love the artwork Designer. Season's Greetings to you too. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

After what has already been a dark week ends with eight children having been stabbed to death in Cairns, Queensland today. The children were found by their older brother:

http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/13/35/Children-found-dead-at-Cairns-property


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Love the artwork Designer. Season's Greetings to you too. :-D


Isn't she so talented, Wombat? I am still stunned with her poinsetta. 
Are you going to join in her sweater KAL in January? It looks like it will be fun.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> After what has already been a dark week ends with eight children having been stabbed to death in Cairns, Queensland today. The children were found by their older brother:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/13/35/Children-found-dead-at-Cairns-property


Awwh, NO!!! Why do they go after children??


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't she so talented, Wombat? I am still stunned with her poinsetta.
> Are you going to join in her sweater KAL in January? It looks like it will be fun.


Bratty -- I have had to postpone the workshop - I will hold it as soon as I can.Hopefully a couple of months later. Possibility of some surgery and until I know for sure I don't want to take on a workshop and have to leave in the middle . Will keep everyone informed. I am really disappointed but it WILL happen .


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> After what has already been a dark week ends with eight children having been stabbed to death in Cairns, Queensland today. The children were found by their older brother:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/13/35/Children-found-dead-at-Cairns-property


Wombatnomore
my Heart goes out to those who mourn these young Souls. Why children? That is the lowest anyone can stoop. There seems no punishment tough enough for someone who does something like this.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thank you Huck. Is the art piece one of yours?
> 
> And Season's Greetings to you too. :-D


Wombatnomore
well, I modified the original which was black and white done by someone-else. I added color, a lot of snow and sparkle. I like the old fashioned scene.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To my way of thinking, if we're on a friendly trade basis with China, we should certainly establish better relations with Cuba 90 miles off our shores.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank Kai for us all. It's very helpful.



EveMCooke said:


> I will pass on your thank to Kai. He is the one who researched the topic after I mentioned that someone had raised a question about the sanctions, he loves the challenge of researching facts. He is very quick at getting results.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


That is magnificent. I think I will step into the picture and travel to Grandfather's farm. It is going to be 39C today, now 2.24 pm and darned hot, hotter still when the maximum is reached about 4.00 pm.

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Purl will send you one anytime. Careful what you request. Have fun. Both of you.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I had one of those! :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't they say a picture is worth a thousand words? Easier to save your breath.



Designer1234 said:


> I have one - Purl gave it to me. I am such a sweetie I don't use it but then that is only my opinion. At times it is the only thing that expresses the feelings.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Bratty -- I have had to postpone the workshop - I will hold it as soon as I can.Hopefully a couple of months later. Possibility of some surgery and until I know for sure I don't want to take on a workshop and have to leave in the middle . Will keep everyone informed. I am really disappointed but it WILL happen .


Okay, Shirley. Your health is much more important!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the Bay of Pigs was as close to nuclear war on our shores that we ever experienced. The embargo was enacted at that time......and basically forgotten. It stayed in effect too long. Cuban refugees flocked to our shores and reinforced the bad feelings about Cuba.

Right now, I see no threat whatsoever from Cuba, and real opportunity for diplomatic relations and trade. As I said, if we're dealing with China, why not Cuba? IMO



Designer1234 said:


> Has anyone accused America of being responsible? If you are talking about my post that is not what I meant. I think that an embargo since the sixties is a bit interesting when embargos have been put on and then taken off countries for years by the US. I don't think that Cuba is really a threat to the US but I could be looking at it incorrectly. Do you think it is? serious question.
> 
> I don't particularly care for Castro - either one of them but it what negative effect does it have on the US? I read from Eve's post that they took over the US businesses there, and I remember the Bay of pigs which at the time seemed to be a real threat. Most people felt it was a good reason for the embargo by the States if I remember correctly. However that was long ago. What negative effect do you expect , now?(I really want to know).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> Our outrage is selective. We supported a different dictator for Cuba and got in a snit because they chose a different one.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Forgot that. Batista?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> After what has already been a dark week ends with eight children having been stabbed to death in Cairns, Queensland today. The children were found by their older brother:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/13/35/Children-found-dead-at-Cairns-property


It is horrific, I just do not believe what is happening today.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Yes Kennedy was ready to have a nuclear war. Good thing the second in command of the Russian nuclear sub said WAIT.
> And who in the heck do you all think Bautista was in bed with? American corporations and the Mafia to victimize the Cuban poor for huge profits.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: All true IMHO


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was over 50 years ago. That's a long time for an embargo to act. I say it's time to try something else.



WindingRoad said:


> I guess you never heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
> 
> http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kennedy-announces-blockade-of-cuba-during-the-missile-crisis


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't resist. IMHO

Age isn't as important and knowledge and experience. We all are people of the world. What we do affects everyone. I find the 'me' and 'them' attitude counter-productive...and offensive.

I also dislike labeling friends as unsavory characters. Examples with no labels, if you please. Better yet, keep your judgments to yourself. (I try, but no one's perfect.)

And do I detect a thinly veiled threat here? What happens if stones are thrown?



WindingRoad said:


> you didn't have to ask me this is an open forum. I was around too. I was even in the USA when it happened. Imagine that. What does Solo and my relationship have to do with this? You have much in common with a lot of unsavory characters here. You might not want to throw stones.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> I totally agree. Her postings are always valuable just as yours. I just saw WindingRoad calling us collectively "unsavory characters". Isn't that name calling? Why do some get called on it while others slither by? Partisanship perhaps? Should not a forum like this be neutral at the helm?


How true. I would like to see a written list of rules. Or perhaps we should at least know who was suspended and why. No transparency now; just gossip and rumor. And, of course a fair neutrality would be best rather than scolding when annoyed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> How did you know I was referring to you. Feeling guilty?


<whispering....a wild guess?>


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> Russia's relationship is more than a tad bit strained with Leaders around the World. Putin has some mental issues which are little by little surfacing and smart are those who recognize his problems. It pays to have a smart President.


This is a thankful case where diplomacy and a smart President saved us all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> As if you could.


<whispering....What? Remind you? Never mind closed shut...nothing new seeps in.>


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Read for content.


Search for truth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have been singled out several times. (Someone is probably erasing the evidence as we speak.) The company is good and the inferences even better. Our name is legion.



Huckleberry said:


> WindingRoad
> would you like to spell out whom you were referring to? Actually not necessary for us but it may give you a little comfort. Go for it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We keep her off the street....sometimes.



BrattyPatty said:


> Huck, she thinks she is doing a great service to KP and all mankind by trolling us. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thank you Huck. Is the art piece one of yours?
> And Season's Greetings to you too.





Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> well, I modified the original which was black and white done by someone-else. I added color, a lot of snow and sparkle. I like the old fashioned scene.


Really Huck? Do you *ever* speak the truth? *You didn't add color to a black and white original*, you probably did add the glitter and put a Christmas card or print in a frame. Then, you lie and say you modified and colored an original.

I bet the original artist, Nicky Boehme, wouldn't take kindly to you claiming HER work as your own.

Nicky colored the original painting.

I've posted what you said you colored from a B/W. Amazingly you added exactly the same colors to the exact same places in the exact same shades as the original artist!!! Please point out to us all exactly where you "added a lot of snow." I'd like to see it.

Give it a break Ingried, you're not impressing anyone with your lies.

Here's a link where you can see Nicky's painting in *color* as Nicky painted it (NOT) you;
http://www.tuttartpitturasculturapoesiamusica.com/2012/02/nicky-boehme-romantic-american-painter.html


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Sending everyone SEASON's GREETINGS and wish you
> ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR. Huck


Your picture is lovely. Thanks for sharing.

Happy Holidays to all! Enjoy the season.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Your picture is lovely. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Happy Holidays to all! Enjoy the season.


It's Nicky Boehme's painting. Huck added glitter and framed it and claimed it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love Christmas at Grandpa's Farm.



Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> the meaning of Diplomacy is unknown to the Right Wingers.


<whispering...along with most of the words in the dictionary.>


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Awwh, NO!!! Why do they go after children??


Because they're beastly cowards! Makes me so angry.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really Huck? Do you *ever* speak the truth? *You didn't add color to a black and white original*, you probably did add the glitter and put a Christmas card or print in a frame. Then, you lie and say you modified and colored an original.
> 
> I bet the original artist, Nicky Boehme, wouldn't take kindly to you claiming HER work as your own.
> 
> ...


*A lot of work to try to prove a point.*


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> *A lot of work to try to prove a point.*


Five minutes. *Huck lies/lied just like you do.* I didn't 'try'; *I proved Huck lied.*


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Five minutes. *Huck lies/lied just like you do.* I didn't 'try'; *I proved Huck lied.*


You manipulated someone's personal work to make it appear fraudulent. I don't see it the way you do. Taking a print and altering it creatively for one's personal use doesn't ring my lie meter.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Five minutes. *Huck lies/lied just like you do.* I didn't 'try'; *I proved Huck lied.*


You need to get a life., Cheryl, away from the booze. It's rotting what's left of your brain.

Are you expecting a brass band or something? You won't get one here.
You of all people should never admonish anyone for lying. 
Keep trolling us. We can have a lot of fun In D&P.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> You manipulated someone's personal work to make it appear fraudulent. I don't see it the way you do. Taking a print and altering it creatively for one's personal use doesn't ring my lie meter.


She's bats#*t crazy, dame. Just ignore it. What a sad and empty existence she must have to do all of this "proving" . She is very mistaken if she thinks any of us care. How pathetic she is. Poor, poor Cheryl...


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


This is beautiful, Shirley! I was particularly mesmerized by the full moon and starry sky. Thank you for sharing it.Best wishes to you, as well!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> After what has already been a dark week ends with eight children having been stabbed to death in Cairns, Queensland today. The children were found by their older brother:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/12/19/13/35/Children-found-dead-at-Cairns-property


How incredibly sad and heartbreaking.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> my Heart goes out to those who mourn these young Souls. Why children? That is the lowest anyone can stoop. There seems no punishment tough enough for someone who does something like this.


IMO, it was probably the mother. If so, she would be mentally ill to have done this. And then, how can any punishment be worse than what she'll already suffer. If it was someone else, there is no punishment bad enough!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> well, I modified the original which was black and white done by someone-else. I added color, a lot of snow and sparkle. I like the old fashioned scene.


Huck, I didn't realize! It's beautiful!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> To my way of thinking, if we're on a friendly trade basis with China, we should certainly establish better relations with Cuba 90 miles off our shores.


I have never understood why we allowed such open and free trade with China. They are not our ally! We've given one of our biggest enemies the assets and information to destroy us. They've stolen our biggest military secrets, including missile designs and jets. They've hacked into our government's computers and those of our infrastructure. They've put submarines off our coasts and shot off a missile in the Pacific, not far from California. They are buying our country, piece by piece! They threatened to shoot down our planes in the Pacific. They publicize the fact that theyre making plans to take over the US. If they're not our enemy, who is? The biggest question I have is, why has our government given everything to China? Is it planned destruction? Why? And why is anybody worried about Cuba? It's China we should be worried about!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> That is magnificent. I think I will step into the picture and travel to Grandfather's farm. It is going to be 39C today, now 2.24 pm and darned hot, hotter still when the maximum is reached about 4.00 pm.
> 
> Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all.


I had to google to find out what 39C was in Fahrenheit. 102.2 ?!? Yikes! That IS hot! Is it safe to assume that everyone in Australia has air conditioners?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Purl will send you one anytime. Careful what you request. Have fun. Both of you.


She sends them to me all of the time (in replies). :lol: 
I'm using a little 8" Nexus tablet. It has a bunch built in but they're ugly blobs. See? 😤😠😬😡😉😨😰


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have never understood why we allowed such open and free trade with China. They are not our ally! We've given one of our biggest enemies the assets and information to destroy us. They've stolen our biggest military secrets, including missile designs and jets. They've hacked into our government's computers and those of our infrastructure. They've put submarines off our coasts and shot off a missile in the Pacific, not far from California. They are buying our country, piece by piece! They threatened to shoot down our planes in the Pacific. They publicize the fact that theyre making plans to take over the US. If they're not our enemy, who is? The biggest question I have is, why has our government given everything to China? Is it planned destruction? Why? And why is anybody worried about Cuba? It's China we should be worried about!


The answer to your question is trade. The USA exports a great deal to China. An extract from a link which I have given at the end of the extract. This was written in 2013 so the figures for exports to China may be even higher during 2014.

China bought nearly $109 billion worth of goods from the U.S. last year, according to a just-released report from the U.S.-China Business Council. And that didn't even include Hong Kong, which alone imported a little more than $35 billion worth of goods from the U.S. in the same period.

China now ranks as the U.S. third-largest export market, with exports there growing 294 percent from 2003 to 2012. By comparison, U.S. exports to the rest of the world have grown only 111 percent in the same period.

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-exports-china-have-grown-294-over-past-decade-1338693


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I had to google to find out what 39C was in Fahrenheit. 102.2 ?!? Yikes! That IS hot! Is it safe to assume that everyone in Australia has air conditioners?


They are a necessity if you want a good night's sleep as it is often almost that high well into the night here in Perth. Fans often just recirculate the hot air, but fans in conjunction with the airconditioner are great, especially ceiling fans. We also have two heat extractors on our roof to extract the hot air from the roof space, and roof insulatioln is a must. Some people also insulate the walls.

So, tongue in cheek, our posts are in the correct thread as things are definitely heating up down here in Oz. It was 45C in some centres in the north of the state. Much cooler tomorrow, only 29 C. Almost time to put a woolie on.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I have been singled out several times. (Someone is probably erasing the evidence as we speak.) The company is good and the inferences even better. Our name is legion.


The whole "name is legion" thing, is a biblical reference that you may not want to use. :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The answer to your question is trade. The USA exports a great deal to China. An extract from a link which I have given at the end of the extract. This was written in 2013 so the figures for exports to China may be even higher during 2014.
> 
> China bought nearly $109 billion worth of goods from the U.S. last year, according to a just-released report from the U.S.-China Business Council. And that didn't even include Hong Kong, which alone imported a little more than $35 billion worth of goods from the U.S. in the same period.
> 
> ...


We import far more from China than we export.
https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> They are a necessity if you want a good night's sleep as it is often almost that high well into the night here in Perth. Fans often just recirculate the hot air, but fans in conjunction with the airconditioner are great, especially ceiling fans. We also have two heat extractors on our roof to extract the hot air from the roof space, and roof insulatioln is a must. Some people also insulate the walls.
> 
> So, tongue in cheek, our posts are in the correct thread as things are definitely heating up down here in Oz. It was 45C in some centres in the north of the state. Much cooler tomorrow, only 29 C. Almost time to put a woolie on.


We occasionally get up over 100f. But 45C is 113f! Yikes! We've never been that hot! But I don't think I'd put a Woolie on at 84 degrees. I'd still have my air conditioner running.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> <whispering...along with most of the words in the dictionary.>


damemary
you got that right. An "undernourished" bunch they are.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, it was probably the mother. If so, she would be mentally ill to have done this. And then, how can any punishment be worse than what she'll already suffer. If it was someone else, there is no punishment bad enough!


It sounds here as if she was stabbed too and is in the hospital and cooperating with the police to find the killer. I think it might be the Dad or boyfriend. Sooooo sad!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> *A lot of work to try to prove a point.*


damemary
the original I received from a neighbor some years ago was black and white and I enhanced it with color, snow and glitter. I enjoy sprucing up stuff. Do it often.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the original I received from a neighbor some years ago was black and white and I enhanced it with color, snow and glitter. I enjoy sprucing up stuff. Do it often.


Don't worry about anything she says, Huck. Think of who says it -- that speaks for itself. I have seen black and white prints of colored paintings and I have touched them up - did one for my sister of a cabin in the woods she loved. She had a black and white copy and so I added color to it for her and had it framed.

I wonder what she does with her spare time? (Not my sister).
She still has it. (my sister;-)

I never signed it and didn't claim it was my original.. I don't intend to answer any post to me in this regard.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder what she does with her spare time.


Makes up reasons to call people liars. Her favorite thing to say - included in nearly every post!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We occasionally get up over 100f. But 45C is 113f! Yikes! We've never been that hot! But I don't think I'd put a Woolie on at 84 degrees. I'd still have my air conditioner running.


113 is common in the Arizona deserts. It can be that hot every day (or even hotter) for months on end. Brutal.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It sounds here as if she was stabbed too and is in the hospital and cooperating with the police to find the killer. I think it might be the Dad or boyfriend. Sooooo sad!


I hope you're right. But so many times these mothers who kill their children, try to kill themselves and fail. I hope it wasn't her. She has enough awful to live with, without that.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> They are a necessity if you want a good night's sleep as it is often almost that high well into the night here in Perth. Fans often just recirculate the hot air, but fans in conjunction with the airconditioner are great, especially ceiling fans. We also have two heat extractors on our roof to extract the hot air from the roof space, and roof insulatioln is a must. Some people also insulate the walls.
> 
> So, tongue in cheek, our posts are in the correct thread as things are definitely heating up down here in Oz. It was 45C in some centres in the north of the state. Much cooler tomorrow, only 29 C. Almost time to put a woolie on.


How much solar paneling is being promoted and used in Australia?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> They are a necessity if you want a good night's sleep as it is often almost that high well into the night here in Perth. Fans often just recirculate the hot air, but fans in conjunction with the airconditioner are great, especially ceiling fans. We also have two heat extractors on our roof to extract the hot air from the roof space, and roof insulatioln is a must. Some people also insulate the walls.
> 
> So, tongue in cheek, our posts are in the correct thread as things are definitely heating up down here in Oz. It was 45C in some centres in the north of the state. Much cooler tomorrow, only 29 C. Almost time to put a woolie on.


How much solar paneling is being promoted and used in Australia?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Oops double post.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the original I received from a neighbor some years ago was black and white and I enhanced it with color, snow and glitter. I enjoy sprucing up stuff. Do it often.


A black and white print of an original painting? Could there be such a thing? :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Makes up reasons to call people liars. Her favorite thing to say - included in nearly every post!


She thinks she avoids being called a liar, by using words such as "probably" to quantify her lies.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> 113 is common in the Arizona deserts. It can be that hot every day (or even hotter) for months on end. Brutal.


But it's a dry heat, right? :lol: :lol: :lol: 
We've loads of humidity.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> But it's a dry heat, right? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> We've loads of humidity.


Yes, it is dry. We think it's bad in Arizona when the humidity is at 40%. Early in the summer, humidity often hovers around 5%; same for late summer/early fall. Still, when the temps rise to 100 or more by April and stay that way into late October or even November, it's miserable. In the city it doesn't cool down at night, either - I've seen the temperature at 105 at 10:00 pm. As I said, brutal and unrelenting. I have quite literally inched my car forward at traffic lights just so the shade of a light pole would fall on my face.

After 50 years of that, moved to the mountains. Heavenly weather!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> How true. I would like to see a written list of rules. Or perhaps we should at least know who was suspended and why. No transparency now; just gossip and rumor. And, of course a fair neutrality would be best rather than scolding when annoyed.


There actually are rules around here. Click on "Home", then click on "Main", click on "Kitting Paradise--Rules, Help, FAQ", and at long last you get to click on "Forum Rules" Read 'em and weep. After you've done that you might feel a bit boggled. Don't worry. This is a natural reaction to having to find something useful by taking a long and winding road.

You may find yourself wondering why you had to root around to get to "Forum Rules". You may wonder why these rules don't seem very important around here. You may just throw your hands in the air and walk away from your keyboard.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A black and white print of an original painting? Could there be such a thing? :XD: :XD: :XD:


Knitter from Nebraska
put any color picture on a printer and print black and white and voila. When photograph paper is being used (I just did it on reg. printing paper), the copies look very nice.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Five minutes. *Huck lies/lied just like you do.* I didn't 'try'; *I proved Huck lied.*


So what?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Don't worry about anything she says, Huck. Think of who says it -- that speaks for itself. I have seen black and white prints of colored paintings and I have touched them up - did one for my sister of a cabin in the woods she loved. She had a black and white copy and so I added color to it for her and had it framed.
> 
> I wonder what she does with her spare time? (Not my sister).
> She still has it. (my sister;-)
> ...


Designer1234
I don't pay any mind to her craziness. If I displayed a picture of my poop in my Toilet she would dispute it was mine. She has some real issues for which there is no cure. I have copied some Masters. We know it eats her guts out that talent has escaped her. Saw the copy work of Mrs. Armand Hammer years ago and she inspired me to try and try I did. On the backside of my copies I lay claim to having copied it. There are so many fabulous fakes out there that many Experts no longer authenticate paintings. Whatever YOU create, may it be a total original of yours or a combination, your talent seems unlimited. I admire you tremendously. Happy Holidays, Huck


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> But it's a dry heat, right? :lol: :lol: :lol:
> We've loads of humidity.


 If it's 45C, I'll be baking a custard. If it's 113F, I'll be somewhere else. If it's 84F, I'll be in the basement waiting for cooler weather. Heck, if it's 75F, I won't be very happy about it. :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234

Here is another one I copied. When an original is out of reach, I see what I can do. No law against it unless I would try and dispose of it as an original.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> put any color picture on a printer and print black and white and voila. When photograph paper is being used (I just did it on reg. printing paper), the copies look very nice.


I was being sarcastic because she seemed to think you couldn't have done as you said. In addition to your example many places sell black and white prints. So, the story of how you adorned your print is very believable.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I was being sarcastic because she seemed to think you couldn't have done as you said. In addition to your example many places sell black and white prints. So, the story of how you adorned your print is very believable.


Knitter from Nebraska
She just is a very troubled Soul. She has some weapons and is bend on using them and they backfire each and every time.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> How much solar paneling is being promoted and used in Australia?


Solar panels are extremely popular but they are also very expensive. I cannot afford to put them on my roof.
Unfortunately Tony Rabbit is cutting Federal finance grants to alternative energy sources, both solar and wind. We did have rebates for solar panels on the roof and the State Energy Commission agreed to buy the excess energy produced from the house owners. The rebates for installing the panels was slashed by the State Government as was the price paid for buying the excess energy produced. It was their popularity that caused the Government to slash the rebates, they did not think so many people would instal them. Like solar water heaters they have to be placed on a north facing slope of the roof and the north side of my house has a lot of trees which would shade the panels and the solar hot water panels if I did install them, I have a lot of trees on my block.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you sound like Cheney. The Cubans will have a better future with our help and once the Castros bite the dust which should not be too far off.


That all depends on who comes into power. I have nothing against the Cubans. After living in south Fla, and living around them, they are wonderful people. I do wish them the best.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> 
> Here is another one I copied. When an original is out of reach, I see what I can do. No law against it unless I would try and dispose of it as an original.


My ex husband's family are extremely artistic. My ex, his father and his grandfather had excellent calligraphy skills, as well as being good artists. My ex's grandfather used to copy the old masters but he always altered something so it was not an exact copy of the old master. He did sign his paintings. My husband had quite a collection after his uncle died in 1971, but being the person he was he sold them all. He took the paintings out of the frame and sold the frames separately. I think the secret is to alter something, even something small if you are going to copy an old master. My ex had beautiful calligraphy skills but honestly he lacked the artist's soul. He could copy but not do any original work. He worked with charcoal and watercolours. I would say, "that is is, leave it exactly as it is, do not add anything else", but he would, he would say, " perhaps a bird here, or another flower here " etc. Even his art teacher told him to stop when he thought he was only half or three quarters finished as he crowded his work too much. He could have earned a good income with his calligraphy and artistic talents, instead he chose growing vegetables to give away. Hard slog as he was too mean to buy power tools to ease the work load. Worked hard in his vegie garden, producing far more vegies than he could ever use himself, and gave the excess away, right up to the day he died. Sad really, as he had over $100,000 in cold hard cash in the bank when he died. He never did take that overseas holiday he always said he would. We had our fares to Europe paid up and ready to go three times, and three times he cancelled the trip and got his money back. But he did have artistic talent and ability.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> yes I did hear of it. I was around when it happened. I have been around I would think, much longer than you. I don't know your age, but you seem like a child to me. I wasn't really asking you. I was asking Solo, who isn't interested a conversation either. Are you good friends?? you have much in common.


Knock it off Designer. You are no more interested in having a conversation with me than I am with you. Stop lying for once. You last sentence tells the truth about your feelings. Your innocent act is just - that an act. You may have fooled your friends, but not the rest of us. We see you for what you are.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> You manipulated someone's personal work to make it appear fraudulent. I don't see it the way you do. Taking a print and altering it creatively for one's personal use doesn't ring my lie meter.


I manipulated nothing. That was Huck's doing. No one suggested Huck couldn't alter a print legally possessed. However, *Huck LIED * and claimed she colored an original work and added 'snow.' Huck or someone added glitter and framed the original artist's COLORED work. The two works are EXACTLY the same minus the glitter Huck threw onto her copy.

Perhaps I should contact the original artist and have her explain copyright and plagiarism to Huck and then Huck can explain same to you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> the original I received from a neighbor some years ago was black and white and I enhanced it with color, snow and glitter. I enjoy sprucing up stuff. Do it often.


Huckleberry,

Have someone explain to you that when you bury yourself in a hole under a heap and pile of your own lies, it is best to stop digging.

BTW: *remember the time you stole my copyrighted personal photograph*, "spruced it up" (as you just stated you enjoy doing when stealing another's work) and used as your own avatar? Admin had you take MY photograph down in five minutes flat after I reported your antics.

Remember, Ingried?

I do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A black and white print of an original painting? Could there be such a thing? :XD: :XD: :XD:


A colored painting Huck created that is an exact replica of an original painting? Could there be such a thing? :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She thinks she avoids being called a liar, by using words such as "probably" to quantify her lies.


Prove it liar. I don't lie, so, therefore, cannot and do not quantify 'my' lies either, but I'm calling you on yours NOW.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> put any color picture on a printer and print black and white and voila. When photograph paper is being used (I just did it on reg. printing paper), the copies look very nice.


Here's a shovel, Huck.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I don't pay any mind to her craziness. If I displayed a picture of my poop in my Toilet she would dispute it was mine. She has some real issues for which there is no cure. I have copied some Masters. We know it eats her guts out that talent has escaped her. Saw the copy work of Mrs. Armand Hammer years ago and she inspired me to try and try I did. On the backside of my copies I lay claim to having copied it. There are so many fabulous fakes out there that many Experts no longer authenticate paintings. Whatever YOU create, may it be a total original of yours or a combination, your talent seems unlimited. I admire you tremendously. Happy Holidays, Huck


You should have blocked out the artist's signature in "your" "colored" painting before you framed it. Guess you forget.

If I have the time and interest, I'll let Nicky know because you've now added "libel" to your criminal acts.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Awwh, NO!!! Why do they go after children??


Because children are innocent, considered weak and usually don't fight back. They are also more apt to trust the person that does them harm. Chances are good that they knew the killer.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> 
> Here is another one I copied. When an original is out of reach, I see what I can do. No law against it unless I would try and dispose of it as an original.


... or claim you 'colored' it when you didn't.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> She just is a very troubled Soul. She has some weapons and is bend on using them and they backfire each and every time.


Ah, huh, keep on shoveling it Huck, it's mildly entertaining.

Oh, the word to use is "bent" not bend, soul should not capitalized, and you need a comma before the word and.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I was being sarcastic because she seemed to think you couldn't have done as you said. In addition to your example many places sell black and white prints. So, the story of how you adorned your print is very believable.


Apparently you are not able to discern, other than glitter on Huck's copy, there is no difference between the two and what Huck claimed is NOT believable. Your choice to ignore the truth and obvious.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I don't pay any mind to her craziness.


You pay attention to every post I write and respond ad nauseam with foolishness and insults.

Here's one of your most recent:


Huckleberry said:


> do we really care what she says about any of us? I do not.


You cannot even keep your own thoughts coherent because you're so wrapped up in your attempts to insult me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What the heck is wrong with you? You made a statement, repeated it, and I agreed with you. So then you bash me (as you usually do).
> 
> If you cannot handle people's opinions and the truth and facts, even when someone agrees with your own, you don't need to be heard and should remove *yourself* from the discussion rather than attempt to dismiss me AGAIN.
> 
> ...


You said, "I probably haven't posted to you in nearly a year, and now I'm remembering why I don't..."

There's that word "probably"! It was only four months ago that you inserted yourself into NC's and my conversation! You turned it into a sh#t storm as usual! The only reason you don't reply to me more often, is that I try my best to IGNORE you! Don't play Miss innocent! You're always LOOKING for a fight!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> You manipulated someone's personal work to make it appear fraudulent. I don't see it the way you do. Taking a print and altering it creatively for one's personal use doesn't ring my lie meter.


Of course you don't. Right or wrong, you make excuses for your friends. FYI, you would be a better person and friend if you would tell the truth. Make is New Year's resolution. Come on you can do it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That all depends on who comes into power. I have nothing against the Cubans. After living in south Fla, and living around them, they are wonderful people. I do wish them the best.


I do as well, but I doubt having the USA with open borders with Cuba will have much, if any, impact on the prosperity for the citizens of the Communist-run dictatorship. In the past 40-50 years, their government has made no progress to advance the lives of Cubans.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

What a tantrum we are seeing. When my kids behaved that way I always turned my back and walked away. Similar in so many ways.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You need to get a life., Cheryl, away from the booze. It's rotting what's left of your brain.
> 
> Are you expecting a brass band or something? You won't get one here.
> You of all people should never admonish anyone for lying.
> Keep trolling us. We can have a lot of fun In D&P.


So that's your threat? That we can look for more of your asinine behavior on D&P? If that's what it takes to amuse you, have at it. We've weathered your $hit before and will do so again.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Prove it liar. I don't lie and don't quantify other's lies either, but I'm calling you on yours NOW.


You told me to prove it, and I did!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Knock it off Designer. You are no more interested in having a conversation with me than I am with you. Stop lying for once. You last sentence tells the truth about your feelings. Your innocent act is just - that an act. You may have fooled your friends, but not the rest of us. We see you for what you are.


 :thumbup: that we do


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: that we do


And we see you for what you are, a wolf in sheep's clothing!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I had one of those! :lol:


Here. Just hit Quote Reply and copy the stuff below this. Then what I do is paste it into an email to myself, and it's there forever. You'll have to delete the "[/quote]" at the end.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You said, "I probably haven't posted to you in nearly a year, and now I'm remembering why I don't..."
> 
> There's that word "probably"! It was only four months ago that you inserted yourself into NC's and my conversation! You turned it into a sh#t storm as usual! The only reason you don't reply to me more often, is that I try my best to IGNORE you! Don't play Miss innocent! You're always LOOKING for a fight!


I didn't lie by using the word "probably" as you claimed. I don't care nor can be bothered to look and count how many months it has been since I responded to your foolishness. I DID NOT insert myself, that is just another of your lies.

I turned nothing into a storm so stopping your yapping.

How is it you know the reasons I don't reply to you and how I believe? (BTW; rhetorical ?) Are you a mind reader? Nah, just the devil in disguise. If you cannot ignore me, don't blame me. That's your problem. I have no trouble ignoring those I wish to ignore.

You've got a real chip on your shoulder. You align yourself with the evil and hateful Lib trolls on this site, try to fit in and don't so you lash out at me when it suits you.

I've NEVER looked for nor STARTED any fight. I'm sick and tired of the Liberals on this forum libeling my name. It's about time I consider putting some money into stopping it. You just joined the fray.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Of course you don't. Right or wrong, you make excuses for your friends. FYI, you would be a better person and friend if you would tell the truth. Make is New Year's resolution. Come on you can do it.


I doubt it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> So that's your threat? That we can look for more of your asinine behavior on D&P? If that's what it takes to amuse you, have at it. We've weathered your $hit before and will do so again.


I'll bring the hot chocolate and marshmallows.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You told me to prove it, and I did!


No, you didn't. Try again, liar.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And we see you for what you are, a wolf in sheep's clothing!


Having trouble ignoring me I see. You're looking for a fight I guess. Typical.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do as well, but I doubt having the USA with open borders with Cuba will have much, if any, impact on the prosperity for the citizens of the Communist-run dictatorship. In the past 40-50 years, their government has made no progress to advance the lives of Cubans.


That was my point about the Castro brothers. They don't want their citizens to be successful. Success would equal loss of control. Cuba could be very successful. They have resources, they have rich land but don't have leadership that will allow the citizens to thrive. It is such a waste.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That was my point about the Castro brothers. They don't want their citizens to be successful. Success would equal loss of control. Cuba could be very successful. They have resources, they have rich land but don't have leadership that will allow the citizens to thrive. It is such a waste.


Agreed! I heard recently that the average monthly compensation is $20 in Cuba. I have a difficult time even processing such poverty. I have seen lots of poverty and malnourished countrymen, unemployed citizens and boarded and abandoned buildings and businesses in my travels, and it is very disturbing.

I can remember one specific example of being in Carcaras, Venezuela, and seeing the poverty and the residents who survived in huts on the mountainside while living amongst the trash and waste they literally threw out their windows. There are so many horrific memories in my brain, they seem to shut down the magnitude of it all. Perhaps it is a 'surviving' mechanism in the human brain so folks can do what they can and yet not collapse with the realities of such suffering.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> double post - have no interest in saying it twice.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> " at the end.


Trying it










It worked!!! Thanks!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see Designer1234 as a fine talented lady. There's nothing else to see. IMHO


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> My ex husband's family are extremely artistic. My ex, his father and his grandfather had excellent calligraphy skills, as well as being good artists. My ex's grandfather used to copy the old masters but he always altered something so it was not an exact copy of the old master. He did sign his paintings. My husband had quite a collection after his uncle died in 1971, but being the person he was he sold them all. He took the paintings out of the frame and sold the frames separately. I think the secret is to alter something, even something small if you are going to copy an old master. My ex had beautiful calligraphy skills but honestly he lacked the artist's soul. He could copy but not do any original work. He worked with charcoal and watercolours. I would say, "that is is, leave it exactly as it is, do not add anything else", but he would, he would say, " perhaps a bird here, or another flower here " etc. Even his art teacher told him to stop when he thought he was only half or three quarters finished as he crowded his work too much. He could have earned a good income with his calligraphy and artistic talents, instead he chose growing vegetables to give away. Hard slog as he was too mean to buy power tools to ease the work load. Worked hard in his vegie garden, producing far more vegies than he could ever use himself, and gave the excess away, right up to the day he died. Sad really, as he had over $100,000 in cold hard cash in the bank when he died. He never did take that overseas holiday he always said he would. We had our fares to Europe paid up and ready to go three times, and three times he cancelled the trip and got his money back. But he did have artistic talent and ability.


EveMCooke
what a waste of talent but that is in our eyes. Hope he was happy whatever he did. Some Artists are rather peculiar people.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I didn't lie by using the word "probably" as you claimed. I don't care nor can be bothered to look and count how many months it has been since I responded to your foolishness. I DID NOT insert myself, that is just another of your lies.
> 
> I turned nothing into a storm so stopping your yapping.
> 
> ...


Noooo. I said that you QUANTIFIED your lie by using the word "probably"! I don't know why you would say that you didn't insert yourself into our conversation. Anyone can go back and see that you did! Another lie! Go ahead and try to nail me for libel! Good luck trying! Empty threats!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No, you didn't. Try again, liar.


Childish!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If someone takes a photo of a copywrighted photo, and it breaks the camera who's fault is that? Just wondering.....


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Having trouble ignoring me I see. You're looking for a fight I guess. Typical.


You got it right, this time!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> I totally agree. Her postings are always valuable just as yours. I just saw WindingRoad calling us collectively "unsavory characters". Isn't that name calling? Why do some get called on it while others slither by? Partisanship perhaps? Should not a forum like this be neutral at the helm?


Windy is incapable of carrying on any conversation without calling names. (I've been told she's not like that about knitting; Wowzer!) It possibly makes her feel smart, but that's just a feeling; it'll pass. Especially when it has nothing to do with the truth.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I didn't lie by using the word "probably" as you claimed. I don't care nor can be bothered to look and count how many months it has been since I responded to your foolishness. I DID NOT insert myself, that is just another of your lies.
> 
> I turned nothing into a storm so stopping your yapping.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
holy cow, your whole existence is a fight. It is your normal. Thought you said adieu once again, what are you doing here? It must feel awful to be so lonely and when envy is eating you alive.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> As if you could.


Because your dementia is permanent? No gray cells left?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right. Best to ignore. Talk to friends only. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You said, "I probably haven't posted to you in nearly a year, and now I'm remembering why I don't..."
> 
> There's that word "probably"! It was only four months ago that you inserted yourself into NC's and my conversation! You turned it into a sh#t storm as usual! The only reason you don't reply to me more often, is that I try my best to IGNORE you! Don't play Miss innocent! You're always LOOKING for a fight!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm trying too. This is fun. Whooopppeeeee!












Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Trying it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Sending everyone SEASON's GREETINGS and wish you
> ALL THE BEST IN THE NEW YEAR. Huck


The same to you, Huck, with bells on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Huck!
> 
> I hope for the best for all of you over the holidays. Some might be traveling.
> 
> I wish you a healthy and happy 2015 too.


What a beautiful card you've us. (I know; it's probably a wall hanging.)

All the best to you and Pat and the offspring.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Purl will send you one anytime. Careful what you request. Have fun. Both of you.


I did, indeed. Happy to share my valuable stuff.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> That was over 50 years ago. That's a long time for an embargo to act. I say it's time to try something else.


We've been deprived of good cigars for way too long.

Dame, you look serene today, with your Mona Lisa smile.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I manipulated nothing. That was Huck's doing. No one suggested Huck couldn't alter a print legally possessed. However, *Huck LIED * and claimed she colored an original work and added 'snow.' Huck or someone added glitter and framed the original artist's COLORED work. The two works are EXACTLY the same minus the glitter Huck threw onto her copy.
> 
> Perhaps I should contact the original artist and have her explain copyright and plagiarism to Huck and then Huck can explain same to you.


So what?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I saved it too. More! More cookies!!



Poor Purl said:


> I did, indeed. Happy to share my valuable stuff.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amazing? Easier than your emoticoms.



Poor Purl said:


> We've been deprived of good cigars for way too long.
> 
> Dame, you look serene today, with your Mona Lisa smile.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> So what?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: That's MIB, ever right to the point.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Search for truth.


 :thumbup: :XD: :thumbup: :XD: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We've been deprived of good cigars for way too long.
> 
> Dame, you look serene today, with your Mona Lisa smile.


Poor Purl
even I never having been a smoker will try a Cuban Cigar. Remember my Dad enjoying them thoroughly.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We've been deprived of good cigars for way too long.
> 
> Dame, you look serene today, with your Mona Lisa smile.


Good cigars? I can just picture you puffing away on a cigar! :XD: :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> even I never having been a smoker will try a Cuban Cigar. Remember my Dad enjoying them thoroughly.


Send us a pic! :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> So what?


MaidInBedlam
well, I am just good at what I do and she hates that with a passion.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good cigars? I can just picture you puffing away on a cigar! :XD: :lol:


Don't knock it till you've tried it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> even I never having been a smoker will try a Cuban Cigar. Remember my Dad enjoying them thoroughly.


Oh, good. My evil influence is spreading to the West.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

folks she now is trying to convince us that she cares about the Poor. Isn't she always telling us that she has more than anyone else and tries her d........... to put others down whom she hopes have less than her?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Five minutes. *Huck lies/lied just like you do.* I didn't 'try'; *I proved Huck lied.*


All you proved is that a colored version exists. Huck said her neighbor gave it to her. The neighbor's version could easily have been black and white.

Your search for the truth has failed again. Happy Chanukah, Cheryl.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> folks she now is trying to convince us that she cares about the Poor. Isn't she always telling us that she has more than anyone else and tries her d........... to put others down whom she hopes have less than her?


Wow! She was really on a bender today! I suppose she had some sort of meltdown? Ranting and raving to nobody and even got the characters mixed up. She's probably passed out on the floor some place. Or did the men in their little white jackets come by and throw the net on her? Her rantings are certainly not the actions of a sane or even rational adult. Poor, poor, Cheryl.
While scanning through all of her gibberish I could only picture the scene in the Exorcist when Regan's head started spinning around and she was hissing.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, good. My evil influence is spreading to the West.


Count me in on one of those Cuban cigars. I have always wanted to try one.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> All you proved is that a colored version exists. Huck said her neighbor gave it to her. The neighbor's version could easily have been black and white.
> 
> Your search for the truth has failed again. Happy Chanukah, Cheryl.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have never understood why we allowed such open and free trade with China. They are not our ally! We've given one of our biggest enemies the assets and information to destroy us. They've stolen our biggest military secrets, including missile designs and jets. They've hacked into our government's computers and those of our infrastructure. They've put submarines off our coasts and shot off a missile in the Pacific, not far from California. They are buying our country, piece by piece! They threatened to shoot down our planes in the Pacific. They publicize the fact that theyre making plans to take over the US. If they're not our enemy, who is? The biggest question I have is, why has our government given everything to China? Is it planned destruction? Why? And why is anybody worried about Cuba? It's China we should be worried about!


The powers that be are very short-sighted. The Chinese work cheap and can copy anything; that's all the manufacturers care about.

I doubt that they really expect to take over the US. I'll worry about this evening's dinner instead; it's a certainty.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So that's your threat? That we can look for more of your asinine behavior on D&P? If that's what it takes to amuse you, have at it. We've weathered your $hit before and will do so again.


Calm down solo, nobody said anything about repeating our wallpapering job.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't she so talented, Wombat? I am still stunned with her poinsetta.
> Are you going to join in her sweater KAL in January? It looks like it will be fun.


Yes Patty, I most certainly will be joining Designers KAL in Jan. I'm looking forward to learning top down knitting on circulars and the lovely betwixt and between stitches and colours Designer uses!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Bratty -- I have had to postpone the workshop - I will hold it as soon as I can.Hopefully a couple of months later. Possibility of some surgery and until I know for sure I don't want to take on a workshop and have to leave in the middle . Will keep everyone informed. I am really disappointed but it WILL happen .


Not to worry Designer, we'll all know when you'll be ready because we all log on everyday. Your priority must be your health and wellbeing. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> my Heart goes out to those who mourn these young Souls. Why children? That is the lowest anyone can stoop. There seems no punishment tough enough for someone who does something like this.


Sadly Huck, it's been revealed this morning that the mother of those children has been charged with their murder. 

Family, friends and neighbours are totally bewildered describing the family and the mother as close and loving.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Makes up reasons to call people liars. Her favorite thing to say - included in nearly every post!


At least she's consistent. Not logical, not truthful, but consistent.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." And is anyone else's mind littler?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> well, I modified the original which was black and white done by someone-else. I added color, a lot of snow and sparkle. I like the old fashioned scene.


It's beautiful Huck, and I could see it had your mark!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> To my way of thinking, if we're on a friendly trade basis with China, we should certainly establish better relations with Cuba 90 miles off our shores.


Makes sense to me. I love, love, love your avatar!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She thinks she avoids being called a liar, by using words such as "probably" to quantify her lies.


She thinks? I strongly doubt it.

Seriously, she has called people liars when what they did was ask questions. Can a question be a lie? Only to a twisted mind, I think.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> That is magnificent. I think I will step into the picture and travel to Grandfather's farm. It is going to be 39C today, now 2.24 pm and darned hot, hotter still when the maximum is reached about 4.00 pm.
> 
> Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to all.


Eve, learned yesterday that when Victoria experiences a cool December (which we have), then January will likely be as hot as blazes! I can't stand the severe heat. Help!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Noooo. I said that you QUANTIFIED your lie by using the word "probably"! I don't know why you would say that you didn't insert yourself into our conversation. Anyone can go back and see that you did! Another lie! Go ahead and try to nail me for libel! Good luck trying! Empty threats!


You are really something. Here's a look at your lies just in your post above;

*Your lie #1:*

I just looked back and on Sep 2 it was *you*, not ME, that _inserted_ yourself into a conversation I had with mojave.
That conversation was 3+ months ago but that is nearly four months so I'll say to was four months ago. I still have no idea when I responded to the discourse with NaturesChampion. You can look that up yourself but that counts as *Your lie #1b* by my count until you prove when that conversation took place.

*Your lie #2:*

You didn't say (as you just claimed above) I quantify my lie(s) by using the word probably.

Your exact words were:
_"She thinks she avoids being called a liar, by using words such as "probably" to quantify her lies."_

You SAID you know what I *think* and why I choose certain words. You don't even have the capability to even know what you think never mind what I think.

*Your lie #3:*

Anyone can go back and review the archives to understand that YOU inserted yourself in MY conversation, and I didn't do as you stated. Go back and look; I just did.

You have a serious comprehension problem. I've gone down this road over and over again with you before. I SAID I'm sick and tired of the LIBS libeling my name and should consider putting some $ behind stopping them. If you are now claiming you're a Liberal, thanks for the heads up. If you'd prefer I can attempt to 'nail you' for libel but I never suggested same. *Your lie #4 *

I don't make threats, nor empty threats. *Your lie #5*

Next lie?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Eve, learned yesterday that when Victoria experiences a cool December (which we have), then January will likely be as hot as blazes! I can't stand the severe heat. Help!


I used to be able to handle 115 F temps, but not anymore. When I visit my sister in Las Vegas, I go in the winter when the temps are in the 70's.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She thinks? I strongly doubt it.
> 
> Seriously, she has called people liars when what they did was ask questions. Can a question be a lie? Only to a twisted mind, I think.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You said, "I probably haven't posted to you in nearly a year, and now I'm remembering why I don't..."
> 
> There's that word "probably"! It was only four months ago that you inserted yourself into NC's and my conversation! You turned it into a sh#t storm as usual! The only reason you don't reply to me more often, is that I try my best to IGNORE you! Don't play Miss innocent! You're always LOOKING for a fight!


And she comes off looking like a fool. This is all very funny.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Childish!


Yes, you are - very.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! She was really on a bender today! I suppose she had some sort of meltdown? Ranting and raving to nobody and even got the characters mixed up. She's probably passed out on the floor some place. Or did the men in their little white jackets come by and throw the net on her? Her rantings are certainly not the actions of a sane or even rational adult. Poor, poor, Cheryl.
> While scanning through all of her gibberish I could only picture the scene in the Exorcist when Regan's head started spinning around and she was hissing.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You guys can have my share.



BrattyPatty said:


> Count me in on one of those Cuban cigars. I have always wanted to try one.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You got it right, this time!


No surprise, I usually do.

Now I'll go back to ignoring you, the childish know-it-all, who instigates hate and insults those who challenge your knowledge and exposes your lies.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer is putting off start of class due to possible surgery until Feb/March. Fyi.



Wombatnomore said:


> Yes Patty, I most certainly will be joining Designers KAL in Jan. I'm looking forward to learning top down knitting on circulars and the lovely betwixt and between stitches and colours Designer uses!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Trying it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your grandkids will love them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> holy cow, your whole existence is a fight. It is your normal. Thought you said adieu once again, what are you doing here? It must feel awful to be so lonely and when envy is eating you alive.


Huckleberry
Holy Cow, you cannot keep your word and stop having your say and attempt to insult me now can you.

Must be my magnetic personality.

Please keep using my KP name - Ka-Ching! More gifts to gift!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She thinks? I strongly doubt it.
> 
> Seriously, she has called people liars when what they did was ask questions. Can a question be a lie? Only to a twisted mind, I think.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see Designer1234 as a fine talented lady. There's nothing else to see. IMHO


There's nothing else to see, period. There seems to be a flea in someone's denim-clad rear that makes them see her in any other way.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Designer is putting off start of class due to possible surgery until Feb/March. Fyi.


We'll be ready to go when Shirley is feeling up to it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> well, I am just good at what I do and she hates that with a passion.


I don't hate, especially someone who is good at what they do in the creative arena. However, I have yet to see you do anything well.

Even lying well takes great skill that you don't possess.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> holy cow, your whole existence is a fight. It is your normal. Thought you said adieu once again, what are you doing here? It must feel awful to be so lonely and when envy is eating you alive.


My guess - and it's just a guess, so please don't call it a lie, Huck - is that every once in a while she realized that we're having several interesting conversations without mentioning her and compulsively jumps in with fists flying. It's her idea of conversation is my guess.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't hate, especially someone who is good at what they do in the creative arena. However, I have yet to see you do anything well.
> 
> Even lying well takes great skill that you don't possess.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> folks she now is trying to convince us that she cares about the Poor. Isn't she always telling us that she has more than anyone else and tries her d........... to put others down whom she hopes have less than her?


Boy, you are hopeless.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could be true. I can't 'think' like her.



Poor Purl said:


> My guess - and it's just a guess, so please don't call it a lie, Huck - is that every once in a while she realized that we're having several interesting conversations without mentioning her and compulsively jumps in with fists flying. It's her idea of conversation is my guess.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My guess - and it's just a guess, so please don't call it a lie, Huck - is that every once in a while she realized that we're having several interesting conversations without mentioning her and compulsively jumps in with fists flying. It's her idea of conversation is my guess.


Poor thing must get no attention at home.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Designer is putting off start of class due to possible surgery until Feb/March. Fyi.


Thanks Dame.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Count me in on one of those Cuban cigars. I have always wanted to try one.


Of course you're in.

Patty, did you see Camacho's message? She's coming to NYC on January 15-16. How would you like to come, too? There will be yarn.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Calm down solo, nobody said anything about repeating our wallpapering job.


Haven't you ever seen children when their mommy is all worked up? They get worked up, too


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course you're in.
> 
> Patty, did you see Camacho's message? She's coming to NYC on January 15-16. How would you like to come, too? There will be yarn.


I would love to!! Let me see what I can work out with my daugter to find care for Brynn.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> even I never having been a smoker will try a Cuban Cigar. Remember my Dad enjoying them thoroughly.


Ladies, smoking Cuban cigars is something I have done - and have a photo of!

Having just weathered Hurricane Wilma with lovely Swiss friends, we celebrated our survival with beer and Cuban cigars. VERY bad photo of me. I look three sheets to the wind but was squinting from smoke in my eyes and was wearing my husband's shirt due to 5 days with no power or water. What an adventure! Damage visible in background.

Enjoyed it thoroughly! The cigar, that is. Hurricane not so much.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Ladies, smoking Cuban cigars is something I have done - and have a photo of!
> 
> Having just weathered Hurricane Wilma with lovely Swiss friends, we celebrated our survival with beer and Cuban cigars. VERY bad photo of me. I look three sheets to the wind but was squinting from smoke in my eyes and was wearing my husband's shirt due to 5 days with no power or water. What an adventure! Damage visible in background.
> 
> Enjoyed it thoroughly! The cigar, that is. Hurricane not so much.


Great pics, D! I have always wanted to try a cigar.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Great pics, D! I have always wanted to try a cigar.


Not something I'm in the habit of doing, but it was really, truly, wickedly fun - and surprisingly good. Our friends had just landed in Cancun from Havana a few days before the storm hit. It was bad.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Not something I'm in the habit of doing, but it was really, truly, wickedly fun - and surprisingly good. Our friends had just landed in Cancun from Havana a few days before the storm hit. It was bad.


Not a very pretty picture here  What a mess those hurricanes leave behind.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No thanks, I don't drink beer. You should really lay off of it. It has bloated your face
> 
> You should have something done with that mustache and beard, too. They have wax for that, you know. Learn how to use eyeliner while you are at it. You look like someone punched you in the face.


Is that really who I think it is Patty?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Ladies, smoking Cuban cigars is something I have done - and have a photo of!
> 
> Having just weathered Hurricane Wilma with lovely Swiss friends, we celebrated our survival with beer and Cuban cigars. VERY bad photo of me. I look three sheets to the wind but was squinting from smoke in my eyes and was wearing my husband's shirt due to 5 days with no power or water. What an adventure! Damage visible in background.
> 
> Enjoyed it thoroughly! The cigar, that is. Hurricane not so much.


That photo is so cool! I love a good cigar. Have never enjoyed a Cuban but now that diplomatic relations have been re-established between the U.S. and Cuba, their cigars may become more easily attainable. Yes!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Is that really who I think it is Patty?


I'll keep you guessing.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'll keep you guessing.


Okay. Will continue to guess. Hmmm!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sadly Huck, it's been revealed this morning that the mother of those children has been charged with their murder.
> 
> Family, friends and neighbours are totally bewildered describing the family and the mother as close and loving.


Wombatnomore
is there any punishment fitting the crime? I say not. Lynching comes to mind - a horrible thought I know but what else would inflict enough pain on her for killing 8 children? 8 young Lives ended it terror.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> is there any punishment fitting the crime? I say not. Lynching comes to mind - a horrible thought I know but what else would inflict enough pain on her for killing 8 children? 8 young Lives ended it terror.


The punishment in my mind is unspeakable Huck. But then I think of the torment that mother will have to live with for the rest of her life and wonder whether that would be the worst punishment anyone could bestow, herself in fact?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


BrattyPatty
according to this creature I do not knit, paint, sculpt, make Dolls, do woodworking nor anything else. What on earth am I doing with my time? She is just proving that she is cookoo. Since she is buying her s.... from others with little talent, she wishes she could have landed one of us to make stuff for her. Ma'm, we don't work that cheap. You have to stick with your imported crap.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I think she is thinking that "she got me" by posting my last name. She is too stupid to know that I ran a swap here and it is not news to many women here on KP. No big deal for me, but now it is a big deal for her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> The punishment in my mind is unspeakable Huck. But then I think of the torment that mother will have to live with for the rest of her life and wonder whether that would be the worst punishment anyone could bestow, herself in fact?


Wombatnomore
Letting her live, is setting her free from responsibility. Never again a care in the world, is that fair? I think not. Her Prison Cell should be wallpapered with the faces of the children and periodically changed with new age enhanced versions. Voices of crying children should be blasted around the clock into her Cell. Please, may no-one call that cruel.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No thanks, I don't drink beer. You should really lay off of it. It has bloated your face
> 
> You should have something done with that mustache and beard, too. They have wax for that, you know. Learn how to use eyeliner while you are at it. You look like someone punched you in the face.
> You can also get those bags under your eyes taken care of. A cool cucumber slice works wonders. But then again, with that mug maybe not. Did you use a Sharpie on your eyebrows????


BrattyPatty
really hate to see the rest of her. No wonder she is so angry, hateful and envious.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> is there any punishment fitting the crime? I say not. Lynching comes to mind - a horrible thought I know but what else would inflict enough pain on her for killing 8 children? 8 young Lives ended it terror.


Life in prison without the possibility of parole - dying is too easy.

Lots of emotion about the crime, but the woman had to be insane. Mothers do not murder their children. Maybe she heard voices - who knows? We've heard similar things here in the States - I remember one woman who drowned her 3 children because she wanted them to go to heaven. Certifiable! So, so tragic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> really hate to see the rest of her. No wonder she is so angry, hateful and envious.


dp


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think she is thinking that "she got me" by posting my last name. She is too stupid to know that I ran a swap here and it is not news to many women here on KP. No big deal for me, but now it is a big deal for her.


BrattyPatty
everything is a big deal for her. When you have no Life worth a nickel, you dig your claws into anything you can get near. Remember prev. posts of mine she tried to tear to shreds like the porcelain dolls I made. It absolutely drives her bunkers that she has nothing to offer but a bad vocabulary. She must really be suffering from Acid Relux.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I guess when your craft is covering dog tags and bottle caps with other people's pictures, then need I say more?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That photo is so cool! I love a good cigar. Have never enjoyed a Cuban but now that diplomatic relations have been re-established between the U.S. and Cuba, their cigars may become more easily attainable. Yes!


I sure hope so for your sake. Cuban cigars are something special.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think she is thinking that "she got me" by posting my last name. She is too stupid to know that I ran a swap here and it is not news to many women here on KP. No big deal for me, but now it is a big deal for her.


BrattyPatty
you give her too much credit about this thinking thing. Hate mongering is her forte.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen
may I ask what your Avatar depicts? I keep trying to decipher it but come up empty. I like it, it gives up some warmth. Looks like a large glass filled with ?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I guess when your craft is covering dog tags and bottle caps with other people's pictures, then need I say more?


BrattyPatt
...nuff said. Makes one wonder who her customers are. Strange folks to pay for such crap. Got better stuff going out in my garbage.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> may I ask what your Avatar depicts? I keep trying to decipher it but come up empty. I like it, it gives up some warmth. Looks like a large glass filled with ?


It's filled with light.

I've been playing with a photography technique known as "bouke." It's done by placing lights in the background, then focusing on a closer object. Fiddling with aperture and ISO makes the points of light bigger or smaller - but never in focus. In this case, it's an empty wine glass between the camera and the Christmas tree. Cool, eh? I want to try to get lights to rise from a gift box - if I can find the right sized box and some time to fiddle with it.

Thanks!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> everything is a big deal for her. When you have no Life worth a nickel, you dig your claws into anything you can get near. Remember prev. posts of mine she tried to tear to shreds like the porcelain dolls I made. It absolutely drives her bunkers that she has nothing to offer but a bad vocabulary. She must really be suffering from Acid Relux.


I am waiting for an attack of my stuff. It is bound to come.

She talks of selling her -'creations' I wonder what if anything she creates.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Could be true. I can't 'think' like her.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are really something. Here's a look at your lies just in your post above;
> 
> *Your lie #1:*
> 
> ...


oh zip it.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hope you're right. But so many times these mothers who kill their children, try to kill themselves and fail. I hope it wasn't her. She has enough awful to live with, without that.


The news just came on about it. You were correct that it was the mother of all but one or the other way around (the mother of one) One mother is supposed to be in the hospital with stabbing injuries and is cooperating with the police. I am just going by our news. Whatever happened it is dreadful.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No surprise, I usually do.
> 
> Now I'll go back to ignoring you, the childish know-it-all, who instigates hate and insults those who challenge your knowledge and exposes your lies.


zip it


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, you are - very.


zip it


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have another Brewski, Burski. I'm sorry your cheese slid off its cracker.


 zip it


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> Letting her live, is setting her free from responsibility. Never again a care in the world, is that fair? I think not. Her Prison Cell should be wallpapered with the faces of the children and periodically changed with new age enhanced versions. Voices of crying children should be blasted around the clock into her Cell. Please, may no-one call that cruel.


Most definitely not cruel and completely understandable. I'm thinking that if she had the humanity to bear 7 children, seemingly nurture and love them for the years that she did, then her action in killing them would have to be an inescapable torture for life. IF, of course, she has any humanity. If not, nothing should be off limits in terms of punishment for her.

A death sentence would be a way out for her in my opinion. She doesn't deserve that in the very least.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Most definitely not cruel and completely understandable. I'm thinking that if she had the humanity to bear 7 children, seemingly nurture and love them for the years that she did, then her action in killing them would have to be an inescapable torture for life. IF, of course, she has any humanity. If not, nothing should be off limits in terms of punishment for her.
> 
> A death sentence would be a way out for her in my opinion. She doesn't deserve that in the very least.


The last line of a story about this tragedy:

"She was saying stuff about God and other stuff," she told Australian Associated Press. "She said: 'Papa God gave me the power to do anything'."

She must have been hearing voices - a common element of psychosis.

I'm not being anti-religious; this kind of behavior does not spring from religion, it springs from insanity. Quoting to say the mother was out of her mind.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am waiting for an attack of my stuff. It is bound to come.
> 
> She talks of selling her -'creations' I wonder what if anything she creates.


Designer1234
turmoil is what she loves to create. Just imagine being married to someone like this. Seems like Hell to me.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The last line of a story about this tragedy:
> 
> "She was saying stuff about God and other stuff," she told Australian Associated Press. "She said: 'Papa God gave me the power to do anything'."
> 
> ...


DGreen
this could not have been her first episode of going over the edge. Nobody ever felt that something was not right with her? I shall never buy that. Most likely nobody wanted to take on the burden of so many children. Another Andrea Yates. Where is the Father of those dear children?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> zip it


Designer1234
you know, she needs to vent for some reason. Her Partner most likely hits the drums when she has her hissy fits. Hope there are no neighbors close by. The theatrics in that house must be deafening.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are really something. Here's a look at your lies just in your post above;
> 
> *Your lie #1:*
> 
> ...


You're such a good christian!!! How's THAT for a LIE!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't hate, especially someone who is good at what they do in the creative arena. However, I have yet to see you do anything well.
> 
> Even lying well takes great skill that you don't possess.


knitpresentgifts
is there anybody around you do not call a Liar? You should know about the great skill of lying - you are the Master of it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's adorable. I almost wish I smoked.



DGreen said:


> Ladies, smoking Cuban cigars is something I have done - and have a photo of!
> 
> Having just weathered Hurricane Wilma with lovely Swiss friends, we celebrated our survival with beer and Cuban cigars. VERY bad photo of me. I look three sheets to the wind but was squinting from smoke in my eyes and was wearing my husband's shirt due to 5 days with no power or water. What an adventure! Damage visible in background.
> 
> Enjoyed it thoroughly! The cigar, that is. Hurricane not so much.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Talk about bad timing! Yikes, that was a bad one. I have to admit I love storms. I'm ridden out hurricanes and even a tornado and they just fascinate me, even when I was a child. I know it's not quite sane.



DGreen said:


> Not something I'm in the habit of doing, but it was really, truly, wickedly fun - and surprisingly good. Our friends had just landed in Cancun from Havana a few days before the storm hit. It was bad.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are really something. Here's a look at your lies just in your post above;
> 
> *Your lie #1:*
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
Next lie? Here it is, KP you are good looking.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I disagree. If it bothered her at all, she would not have done it. She has a way of coping. Maybe she's psychotic...or has no feelings for others. Those children's entire lives made them fear their mother. No where to turn for help. And for all 8 to die together, seeing a sibling die and wondering when you will die. It's one of the most fearful things i can imagine.



Wombatnomore said:


> The punishment in my mind is unspeakable Huck. But then I think of the torment that mother will have to live with for the rest of her life and wonder whether that would be the worst punishment anyone could bestow, herself in fact?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we all have the luxury of not having to sell our crafts. We can be as creative as we like and bestow these gifts on those we know will appreciate them.



Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> according to this creature I do not knit, paint, sculpt, make Dolls, do woodworking nor anything else. What on earth am I doing with my time? She is just proving that she is cookoo. Since she is buying her s.... from others with little talent, she wishes she could have landed one of us to make stuff for her. Ma'm, we don't work that cheap. You have to stick with your imported crap.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A fireplace? Lighted Christmas tree? Help!



Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> may I ask what your Avatar depicts? I keep trying to decipher it but come up empty. I like it, it gives up some warmth. Looks like a large glass filled with ?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your photography is magnificent. So kind of you to share your talents. Thanks.



DGreen said:


> It's filled with light.
> 
> I've been playing with a photography technique known as "bouke." It's done by placing lights in the background, then focusing on a closer object. Fiddling with aperture and ISO makes the points of light bigger or smaller - but never in focus. In this case, it's an empty wine glass between the camera and the Christmas tree. Cool, eh? I want to try to get lights to rise from a gift box - if I can find the right sized box and some time to fiddle with it.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> And we all have the luxury of not having to sell our crafts. We can be as creative as we like and bestow these gifts on those we know will appreciate them.


damemary
exactly. I sell none of the items I make but as you said, give them to those who appreciate and use them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Ladies, smoking Cuban cigars is something I have done - and have a photo of!
> 
> Having just weathered Hurricane Wilma with lovely Swiss friends, we celebrated our survival with beer and Cuban cigars. VERY bad photo of me. I look three sheets to the wind but was squinting from smoke in my eyes and was wearing my husband's shirt due to 5 days with no power or water. What an adventure! Damage visible in background.
> 
> Enjoyed it thoroughly! The cigar, that is. Hurricane not so much.


Good picture, with the cigar front and center.

I also am fascinated by your avatar, even after you described what it is. Huckleberry saw it as something that held liquid (I think - I'm still catching up and not going back), which you said it was, but I don't see it. I'll have to spend more time pondering.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I can see a glass in the foreground. I love what she did with the lights.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It's filled with light.
> 
> I've been playing with a photography technique known as "bouke." It's done by placing lights in the background, then focusing on a closer object. Fiddling with aperture and ISO makes the points of light bigger or smaller - but never in focus. In this case, it's an empty wine glass between the camera and the Christmas tree. Cool, eh? I want to try to get lights to rise from a gift box - if I can find the right sized box and some time to fiddle with it.
> 
> Thanks!


DGreen
Thank you. Now that is creative. My Hubby is the expert photographer, even develops the pictures. I am still a Novice and am totally into black and white. I find that mysterious. If I want color, I paint it. He got me a special (old) camera to fiddle with. He has fabulous technical skills. We have too many hobbies and not enough time. I have not heard of "bouke". Please let us see your pictures from time to time.
Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> according to this creature I do not knit, paint, sculpt, make Dolls, do woodworking nor anything else. What on earth am I doing with my time? She is just proving that she is cookoo. Since she is buying her s.... from others with little talent, she wishes she could have landed one of us to make stuff for her. Ma'm, we don't work that cheap. You have to stick with your imported crap.


Have you ever seen the dogtags she sold?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> Letting her live, is setting her free from responsibility. Never again a care in the world, is that fair? I think not. Her Prison Cell should be wallpapered with the faces of the children and periodically changed with new age enhanced versions. Voices of crying children should be blasted around the clock into her Cell. Please, may no-one call that cruel.


It would be more appropriate than a death sentence, or a lynching, which would end her suffering too soon.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am waiting for an attack of my stuff. It is bound to come.
> 
> She talks of selling her -'creations' I wonder what if anything she creates.


Havoc.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Havoc.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> you know, she needs to vent for some reason. Her Partner most likely hits the drums when she has her hissy fits. Hope there are no neighbors close by. The theatrics in that house must be deafening.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you ever seen the dogtags she sold?


Poor Purl
someone actually bought that crap? Really? No wonder she can't believe those of us who are truly creative. She turns green with envy. Look at Designer how multitalented she is and tops at it as well. Copper sculptures, painting - Oil and Water Colors - thread painting, knitting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> someone actually bought that crap? Really? No wonder she can't believe those of us who are truly creative. She turns green with envy. Look at Designer how multitalented she is and tops at it as well. Copper sculptures, painting - Oil and Water Colors - thread painting, knitting.


I don't know whether anyone bought it; I only know it was for sale.

Aren't dogtags meant for the military to wear in case they've been hurt or killed and nobody knows who they are? What disrespect to turn them into crap for kids to have their names and pictures on.

Designer is amazingly talented and takes her work seriously. No wonder the D&P crowd is out for her blood.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> what a waste of talent but that is in our eyes. Hope he was happy whatever he did. Some Artists are rather peculiar people.


Unfortunately he was always miserable, bad tempered and complained all the time. He had so many aches and pains, every part of him seemed to ache at times. It is funny how you can live with someone but not actually enjoy life with them, if you understand what I mean. I would just try to leave him to his own devices and try to enjoy the company of special friends. Friends would compliment him on his talent and tell him he should use it to make an easier living, telling him that even in today's world with computerised signs there is still a place for the talented calligraphy artist, but unfortunately he liked pottering about in the garden by himself. Our son inherited my lack of artistic skills, as one nun said when I was about 13, "that looks like a drunken spider has fallen into the ink bottle and is now crawling all over your page". It was no great work of art I will agree but I liked it and to me that was the important thing. As long as we enjoy what we are doing, that is the important thing to us, as individuals. As long as it makes us happy and does not cause harm to any other sentient being.

But you are right when you say some artists do have a different slant on life. I remember so many of the people who were in the various art classes he attended. He would join an art class, attend for a while and the not go any more. I was privileged to meet so many interesting people who attended those classes and I enjoyed many happy hours in their company. Moving house so many times and moving between the states resulted in losing contact with so many people, especially in the days before the internet and email.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Careful. You can be reported for being abusive.
> 
> And you didn't weather mine - you children complained to Admin that I was revealing someone's personal information, then denied it.


Cheryl Holland - my favorite with those nerdy glasses. Thanks for bringing her forth. Do you think this Cheryl Holland uses the word "liar" to the point of nauseum? I am giving some synonyms for "liar" to perk up Kgp's posts:

Liar: Deciever, perjurer, fabricator, equivocator, false witness


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I would love to!! Let me see what I can work out with my daugter to find care for Brynn.


Oh how heavenly the thought of the Brat coming into NYC.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Great pics, D! I have always wanted to try a cigar.


Bright Green - what a surprise to see you. You look great!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oh how heavenly the thought of the Brat coming into NYC.


It would be like going home SQ. I am dreaming of knishes and good egg cream.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know whether anyone bought it; I only know it was for sale.
> 
> Aren't dogtags meant for the military to wear in case they've been hurt or killed and nobody knows who they are? What disrespect to turn them into crap for kids to have their names and pictures on.
> 
> Designer is amazingly talented and takes her work seriously. No wonder the D&P crowd is out for her blood.


She is an amazing woman, our Designer!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> even I never having been a smoker will try a Cuban Cigar. Remember my Dad enjoying them thoroughly.


Please can I ask you to go outside while you smoke your cigar, I do not like the smell of cigar smoke and it causes me to cough and wheeze.

I love chatting with you, I enjoy your company but I just do not enjoy cigar or cigarette smoke.

The WA Opera company decided not to stage Carmen this year. This was due to pressure from one of the sponsors of the company, they did not want to promote smoking in any form. There were a lot of letters of complaint in the local paper and in the end the company agreed to put Carmen back on their repertoire, but not this year. They pulled it because the girls worked in a cigar factory. Everyone loves Carmen, it is not heavy and is full of action.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> well, I am just good at what I do and she hates that with a passion.


The main thing is you enjoy your artwork and other show their appreciation of your talents.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> The main thing is you enjoy your artwork and other show their appreciation of your talents.


Eve, you should see some of the porcelain dolls that Huck has made. They are absolutely beautiful!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The powers that be are very short-sighted. The Chinese work cheap and can copy anything; that's all the manufacturers care about.
> 
> I doubt that they really expect to take over the US. I'll worry about this evening's dinner instead; it's a certainty.


Talking about the Chinese copying anything, have you seen the factories where talented Chinese artists are copying the old masters? I say factories because I cannot think of another word to describe their work place where they mass produce these paintings which are then sold so cheaply. These artists show great talent and such skill in practicing their artwork.

As for China taking over the USA, I am concerned about China taking over Australia. They seem to be buying so much of our agricultural land and running cattle and sheep or growing crops to ship back home to China to feed their people. They seem to get around our Foreign Ownership Laws. Then there is the mining, how many of our mining companies have Chinese backing? Think Clive Palmer. Someone said if you wanted to see Western Australia you really should visit China as WA is sitting on the docks in piles of iron ore and WA is left with big holes in the ground. You have to check the label on everything you buy, 'Made in China'. The ordinary, everyday Chinese are lovely people, my youngest granddaughter, Yi Yi, is Chinese. Both her mother and father came from China.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes Patty, I most certainly will be joining Designers KAL in Jan. I'm looking forward to learning top down knitting on circulars and the lovely betwixt and between stitches and colours Designer uses!


Shirley definitely has the knack of mixing colours to perfection. I would say she more than understands colours, she feels them. I think we are privileged to have her as a friend. I hope she is relaxing and not stressing over comments made by some. Hold my hand and we can send her a warm hug and healing vibes.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sadly Huck, it's been revealed this morning that the mother of those children has been charged with their murder.
> 
> Family, friends and neighbours are totally bewildered describing the family and the mother as close and loving.


I have not caught up with today's news but I was wondering if there could be a question of authorities taking the children into custody. Neighbours said she was acting strangely, putting her furniture on the verge and giving it away. Someone said they heard her screaming " They cannot take them away, they are my children, I am changing the way I live". The community where she lived is a very close community, they will all gather around her extended famly, offering them support.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Eve, learned yesterday that when Victoria experiences a cool December (which we have), then January will likely be as hot as blazes! I can't stand the severe heat. Help!


What I cannot stand is the complaints from the rest of the family on those hot days. They say I am mean and unfair when all I have done is take their beer out of the fridge so I can climb in and cool down. I hate the heat, at least if it is cold you can curl up in bed with a hot water bottle and your teddy bear, but when it is hot all you can do is complain. The local swimming pool is tempting but during the day there are just too many screaming kids, especially now the schools have broken up for 7 weeks of summer holidays. Excuse me for a moment I have to switch the AC on, t is getting hot, 2.20 pm.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cheryl Holland - my favorite with those nerdy glasses. Thanks for bringing her forth. Do you think this Cheryl Holland uses the word "liar" to the point of nauseum? I am giving some synonyms for "liar" to perk up Kgp's posts:
> 
> Liar: Deceiver, perjurer, fabricator, equivocator, false witness


It looks like you're just giving her other screen names.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Havoc.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Perfect!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> someone actually bought that crap? Really? No wonder she can't believe those of us who are truly creative. She turns green with envy. Look at Designer how multitalented she is and tops at it as well. Copper sculptures, painting - Oil and Water Colors - thread painting, knitting.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: There's craft and then there's art.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good vibes coming from Arizona USA to Shirley. Join in.



EveMCooke said:


> Shirley definitely has the knack of mixing colours to perfection. I would say she more than understands colours, she feels them. I think we are privileged to have her as a friend. I hope she is relaxing and not stressing over comments made by some. Hold my hand and we can send her a warm hug and healing vibes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It looks like you're just giving her other screen names.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

From The Guardian, an article titled "Behind the Online Comments: The Psychology of Internet Trolls"

...trolling is a status-enhancing activity: by attracting readers attention, upsetting people, sparking heated debates, and even gaining approval from others, trolls can feel important, perhaps much more than they are in their real lives. Thus trolling is yet another internet activity that promotes narcissistic motives, since trolls may be expected to be far less successful in attracting peoples attention in the physical world. The only effective antidote to their tactics is to ignore them, but even then trolls wont suffer a public humiliation because nobody knows who they are. This is what makes trolling so ubiquitous  *it requires no skills other than the ability to be obnoxious.*

This just about covers it.

We should stop talking TO trolls and also stop talking ABOUT trolls.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> this could not have been her first episode of going over the edge. Nobody ever felt that something was not right with her? I shall never buy that. Most likely nobody wanted to take on the burden of so many children. Another Andrea Yates. Where is the Father of those dear children?


I think you are probably correct. Normal people don't imagine others being capable of the kind of thing that woman did - it's just too unthinkable! So, they don't act or intervene. Our culture is also much too accepting of parental abuse on all levels. The "my kid and I can raise him as I see fit" mentality prevails. I weep for the children.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you. Now that is creative. My Hubby is the expert photographer, even develops the pictures. I am still a Novice and am totally into black and white. I find that mysterious. If I want color, I paint it. He got me a special (old) camera to fiddle with. He has fabulous technical skills. We have too many hobbies and not enough time. I have not heard of "bouke". Please let us see your pictures from time to time.
> Thank you for sharing.


Thanks, Huck. Setting up the shot was fun, but the point of the exercise goes further in that it raises my awareness of the artistic possibilities of the background (bouke) elements when taking pictures. The color, exposure and shape of background elements can enhance and complement the focal point, but one needs to be aware of the possibilities. I also need to become familiar with the technique for capturing the bouke.

I'm afraid I'm not that great technically, but I'm getting better with practice.

Black and white is a world unto itself and requires a very good eye. I would love to see some of your work!

Too many hobbies - not enough time. Or money. Darn. I can relate!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Good picture, with the cigar front and center.
> 
> I also am fascinated by your avatar, even after you described what it is. Huckleberry saw it as something that held liquid (I think - I'm still catching up and not going back), which you said it was, but I don't see it. I'll have to spend more time pondering.


How about a larger version? Here you go.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

:thumbup: We can now see more detail on the top of the glass. Well done.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> :thumbup: We can now see more detail on the top of the glass. Well done.


Thanks, Eve!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Bright Green - what a surprise to see you. You look great!


You are much too kind! I've aged some since that photo was taken. I'm not in the least photogenic - most shots capture me with my eyes half closed or with some goofy expression on my face. When that photo was taken we still had no electricity or running water in the aftermath of Wilma. But, we had beer (warm) and cigars and wonderful people to share them with.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for this information. It is very timely to say the least.

I'm going to do my best to change my habits. Remind me friends.



DGreen said:


> From The Guardian, an article titled "Behind the Online Comments: The Psychology of Internet Trolls"
> 
> ...trolling is a status-enhancing activity: by attracting readers attention, upsetting people, sparking heated debates, and even gaining approval from others, trolls can feel important, perhaps much more than they are in their real lives. Thus trolling is yet another internet activity that promotes narcissistic motives, since trolls may be expected to be far less successful in attracting peoples attention in the physical world. The only effective antidote to their tactics is to ignore them, but even then trolls wont suffer a public humiliation because nobody knows who they are. This is what makes trolling so ubiquitous  *it requires no skills other than the ability to be obnoxious.*
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The rim on the glass adds an interesting element. Thanks.

Maybe you can share some AK landscape shots?



DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> The rim on the glass adds an interesting element. Thanks.
> 
> Maybe you can share some AK landscape shots?


Sure. I have lots...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

A couple more


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Talking about the Chinese copying anything, have you seen the factories where talented Chinese artists are copying the old masters? I say factories because I cannot think of another word to describe their work place where they mass produce these paintings which are then sold so cheaply. These artists show great talent and such skill in practicing their artwork.
> 
> As for China taking over the USA, I am concerned about China taking over Australia. They seem to be buying so much of our agricultural land and running cattle and sheep or growing crops to ship back home to China to feed their people. They seem to get around our Foreign Ownership Laws. Then there is the mining, how many of our mining companies have Chinese backing? Think Clive Palmer. Someone said if you wanted to see Western Australia you really should visit China as WA is sitting on the docks in piles of iron ore and WA is left with big holes in the ground. You have to check the label on everything you buy, 'Made in China'. The ordinary, everyday Chinese are lovely people, my youngest granddaughter, Yi Yi, is Chinese. Both her mother and father came from China.


Love your avatar. Great truth. We owe so much money to China that I would not be surprised that in my life-time, there will be a "Chinese-American" president and then we will see how much China controls here.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> From The Guardian, an article titled "Behind the Online Comments: The Psychology of Internet Trolls"
> 
> ...trolling is a status-enhancing activity: by attracting readers attention, upsetting people, sparking heated debates, and even gaining approval from others, trolls can feel important, perhaps much more than they are in their real lives. Thus trolling is yet another internet activity that promotes narcissistic motives, since trolls may be expected to be far less successful in attracting peoples attention in the physical world. The only effective antidote to their tactics is to ignore them, but even then trolls wont suffer a public humiliation because nobody knows who they are. This is what makes trolling so ubiquitous  *it requires no skills other than the ability to be obnoxious.*
> 
> ...


DGreen
It does cover it well. Thank you.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


Gorgeous. My friend is experimenting with the same technique on flowers. Must be the new trend or a great coincidence.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


DGreen
beautiful.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> " at the end.


I copy the url info for these cool smileys into a Word document on my desktop.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> well, I am just good at what I do and she hates that with a passion.


That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


Hooray! Oh my gosh - I love good horseradish sauce. And all that other stuff.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> is there any punishment fitting the crime? I say not. Lynching comes to mind - a horrible thought I know but what else would inflict enough pain on her for killing 8 children? 8 young Lives ended it terror.


If it turns out that the mother killed her children and she ends up in some sort of psychiatric prison ward, she'll come to her senses after a while and have to live with what she did for the rest of her life. That sounds like appropriate heavy punishment to me.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


MaidInBedlam
I am going to make gravy today for the Tenderloin as well. Love horseradish sauce and herb butter to go with the meat. Cheers from here.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are really something. Here's a look at your lies just in your post above;
> 
> *Your lie #1:*
> 
> ...


Next truths, actually. There's no such thing as a private conversation on a public topic. For KBG, one person's so-called lie is another person's opinion.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, Huck. Setting up the shot was fun, but the point of the exercise goes further in that it raises my awareness of the artistic possibilities of the background (bouke) elements when taking pictures. The color, exposure and shape of background elements can enhance and complement the focal point, but one needs to be aware of the possibilities. I also need to become familiar with the technique for capturing the bouke.
> 
> I'm afraid I'm not that great technically, but I'm getting better with practice.
> 
> ...


DGreen
bouke =Trompe-L'oel (fool the eye) of photography it seems,. Neat.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> It's filled with light.
> 
> I've been playing with a photography technique known as "bouke." It's done by placing lights in the background, then focusing on a closer object. Fiddling with aperture and ISO makes the points of light bigger or smaller - but never in focus. In this case, it's an empty wine glass between the camera and the Christmas tree. Cool, eh? I want to try to get lights to rise from a gift box - if I can find the right sized box and some time to fiddle with it.
> 
> Thanks!


Very cool! I was wondering about your avatar, too.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer, I take it your new avatar is yet another one of your fabulous creations. Lovely!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Next truths, actually. There's no such thing as a private conversation on a public topic. For KBG, one person's so-called lie is another person's opinion.


Breaking my own pledge...

for KPG, anything posted by a person she doesn't like is a lie.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


That is outstanding. You are an artist. Did you ever take a look at the other forum like this one only for Photographers?

I think you understand placement, light and all things needed to be a really good photographer. I applaud you and I understand what you get from taking those wonderful pictures.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> A couple more


WOW!!! One of them reminds me of my beloved Canadian rockies! Did you take all of them?? They are wonderful.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> A couple more


Lovely photos, thanks for posting them so we can enjoy such beautiful scenery.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> From The Guardian, an article titled "Behind the Online Comments: The Psychology of Internet Trolls"
> 
> ...trolling is a status-enhancing activity: by attracting readers attention, upsetting people, sparking heated debates, and even gaining approval from others, trolls can feel important, perhaps much more than they are in their real lives. Thus trolling is yet another internet activity that promotes narcissistic motives, since trolls may be expected to be far less successful in attracting peoples attention in the physical world. The only effective antidote to their tactics is to ignore them, but even then trolls wont suffer a public humiliation because nobody knows who they are. This is what makes trolling so ubiquitous  *it requires no skills other than the ability to be obnoxious.*
> 
> ...


What a perfect description of someone I will indeed stop talking to or about. Thanks, D.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What a perfect description of someone I will indeed stop talking to or about. Thanks, D.


Does that mean I will never see those campy glasses again?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I think you are probably correct. Normal people don't imagine others being capable of the kind of thing that woman did - it's just too unthinkable! So, they don't act or intervene. Our culture is also much too accepting of parental abuse on all levels. The "my kid and I can raise him as I see fit" mentality prevails. I weep for the children.


Sadly, I weep also for the lives they would have had with that woman had she not gone this far, though at least then they would have had a chance to move away when they were grown. People like her are poison, or like diseases that spread to infect those nearest them.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shirley definitely has the knack of mixing colours to perfection. I would say she more than understands colours, she feels them. I think we are privileged to have her as a friend. I hope she is relaxing and not stressing over comments made by some. Hold my hand and we can send her a warm hug and healing vibes.


You all mean a great deal to me and I thank you for your wonderful support.

I think that each person has their own abilities. It is given to us by our genes and we are not really responsible or better than anyone else if we do things differently than others.

I think that those who are wonderful cooks, (I am not), gardeners, teachers, nurses, - everyone who has a 'feeling' for what they do, and an interest and a love for what they do,
can find something that 'speaks to them.

Those who think 'they can't do that' are selling themselves short. I have taught so many people to thread paint and watercolor and do stained glass,in classes who told me 'I can't do that' and found that once they know the techniques, and get past the feeling that they can't that they CAN. They might not be great artists, but artists do it because they want to and need to. Huck knows what I mean. One person's creation is not better than another. We are given gifts, and I have spent my life trying to help people get past the 'I can'ts. I know that we all have something we are really good at. There are also some things we really are not good at. We are all individuals and each of us has our own talent - maybe it is to appreciate what others do, and admire what they do. That is a talent of 'kindness.' It isn't just art -- it could be bookkeeping, it could be swimming - we can't be good at everything so we find things we love to do.

I feel your group 'hug' and it means the world to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


Thank you so much - it is very obvious at that size. I actually had managed to work it out by studying your avatar. It was the opaque band on the glass that threw me. I saw it as more significant than it really was.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> :thumbup: We can now see more detail on the top of the glass. Well done.


It looks like gold coins spilling into a glass. It's wonderful.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Sure. I have lots...


Breathtaking.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It looks like gold coins spilling into a glass. It's wonderful.


Do you have other photos you can share? Maybe on LOLL or neutral bridges all of us talk about our love of creating something or doing something? I would really love to see more -maybe Dame can show more of her wonderful work, and I am sure each one of us has a talent that they are proud of - All we have to do is acknowledge it.

It is good, however that we also talk about these things on a thread that has been a difficult thread and a hurtful thread. Just my opinion.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Do you have other photos you can share? why don't we open Neutral Bridges again and all of us talk about our love of creating something or doing something? I would really love to see more -maybe Dame can show more of her wonderful work, and I am sure each one of us has a talent that they are proud of - All we have to do is acknowledge it.
> 
> It is good, however that we also talk about these things on a thread that has been a difficult thread and a hurtful thread.


I agree with you. Should we try NB again or a new thread? :thumbup: :thumbup:

I sent Susan a PM yesterday but she had not read it yet. She said her brother was being admitted to a hospice and she was going with her sister to see him. I hope he is not in pain.

Thinking of you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


Oh, shut up! I'm barely awake, trying to get through a cup of coffee, and you're making my juices flow. Between DGreen's pictures and your menu, I've already committed 3 or 4 of the 7 Deadly Sins.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Next truths, actually. There's no such thing as a private conversation on a public topic. For KBG, one person's so-called lie is another person's opinion.


Did you actually read her entire message? What fortitude you have.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> That is outstanding. You are an artist. Did you ever take a look at the other forum like this one only for Photographers?
> 
> I think you understand placement, light and all things needed to be a really good photographer. I applaud you and I understand what you get from taking those wonderful pictures.


Thank you, Purl. Yes, I do visit uglyhedgehog often. What a source of inspiration and education.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> That is outstanding. You are an artist. Did you ever take a look at the other forum like this one only for Photographers?
> 
> I think you understand placement, light and all things needed to be a really good photographer. I applaud you and I understand what you get from taking those wonderful pictures.


Your new avatar is lovely. What a lucky friend.

I envy your eyes and your artistry, and those of DGreen. I have no real visual sense.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> WOW!!! One of them reminds me of my beloved Canadian rockies! Did you take all of them?? They are wonderful.


Yes - those and thousands more on our driving trip through Alaska and Canada last summer. I ran out of superlatives early in the trip.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Your new avatar is lovely. What a lucky friend.
> 
> I envy your eyes and your artistry, and those of DGreen. I have no real visual sense.


You have many gifts, dear Purl. Your quick wit is something I wish I had!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


You are an artist too. I envy those who love to cook the way you do, and therefore are great cooks. I had a friend who loved to cook and liked my work in New Zealand - we traded, She made us a 'Pavlova' l0 times in a year and I did a copper picture for her. My dil is the same kind of cook. She spends hours creating and I can tell from her face that she gets sooo much pleasure from it. She tastes, and adds, and is smiling all the time she is doing it. I picture you to be the same.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Lovely photos, thanks for posting them so we can enjoy such beautiful scenery.


You're welcome. Going back through the photos of our trip makes me want to hit the road again.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> You are an artist too. I envy those who love to cook the way you do, and therefore are great cooks. I had a friend who loved to cook and liked my work in New Zealand - we traded, She made us a 'Pavlova' l0 times in a year and I did a copper picture for her. My dil is the same kind of cook. She spends hours creating and I can tell from her face that she gets sooo much pleasure from it. She tastes, and adds, and is smiling all the time she is doing it. I picture you to be the same.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You have many gifts, dear Purl. Your quick wit is something I wish I had!


I agree! I really love to read your posts- I wonder if you have ever thought of writing - you are witty and wonderfully expressive.

Sloth has a great sense of humor and if I remember correctly she is a writer? Everyone has a special talent of some sort.

There are negative talents too.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Does that mean I will never see those campy glasses again?


Why would you think that? In fact, I happen to have a pair at home I could give you, though the huge round frames are speckled green, like malachite.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Do you have other photos you can share? Maybe on LOLL or neutral bridges all of us talk about our love of creating something or doing something? I would really love to see more -maybe Dame can show more of her wonderful work, and I am sure each one of us has a talent that they are proud of - All we have to do is acknowledge it.
> 
> It is good, however that we also talk about these things on a thread that has been a difficult thread and a hurtful thread. Just my opinion.


Love the idea! But no cream cheese recipes, okay?

Sometimes I suffer mental overload from all the negative things going on in the world. It does, indeed, feel good to talk about love and caring and to share something we all seem to have; the thing I call the "creative imperative."

Your turn to post or start a new thread on this theme, since you, my lady, are absolutely oooooozzziiing talent.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you actually read her entire message? What fortitude you have.


I'm working on being brave enough to go out and do some shopping.:mrgreen: :twisted:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, shut up! I'm barely awake, trying to get through a cup of coffee, and you're making my juices flow. Between DGreen's pictures and your menu, I've already committed 3 or 4 of the 7 Deadly Sins.


Is there anything we can do to get you through the rest of the 7?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm working on being brave enough to go out and do some shopping.:mrgreen: :twisted:


Definitely an act of courage this time of year.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is there anything we can do to get you through the rest of the 7?


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> You are an artist too. I envy those who love to cook the way you do, and therefore are great cooks. I had a friend who loved to cook and liked my work in New Zealand - we traded, She made us a 'Pavlova' l0 times in a year and I did a copper picture for her. My dil is the same kind of cook. She spends hours creating and I can tell from her face that she gets sooo much pleasure from it. She tastes, and adds, and is smiling all the time she is doing it. I picture you to be the same.


I love composing dinners, then counting the seconds until the guests have decimated it and nothing but the sounds of chomping and slurping are heard in the land. I do this with a devilish gleam in my eyes.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam I love your Christmas avatar.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Love the idea! But no cream cheese recipes, okay?
> 
> Sometimes I suffer mental overload from all the negative things going on in the world. It does, indeed, feel good to talk about love and caring and to share something we all seem to have; the thing I call the "creative imperative."
> 
> Your turn to post or start a new thread on this theme, since you, my lady, are absolutely oooooozzziiing talent.


If we start a new thread it will have to be on 'crafts' as the new section is to show our work. Everything will be public, even if we go on the workshops. That might be an idea as if nastiness invades I could delete them. I could open a new thread there,

I think it might be a better idea to start NB again as it is already open? I will find it and post there now.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Definitely an act of courage this time of year.


Especially as I am going to some snobby food shops where the other shoppers are completely unaware anyone else is there, too.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> MaidInBedlam I love your Christmas avatar.


I googled "advent wreaths" and this one is the closest I could get to mine, which of course I don't have a picture of.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I googled "advent wreaths" and this one is the closest I could get to mine, which of course I don't have a picture of.


What is the significance of the one pink candle?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good morning, ladies! 
Wow! We do have a super-talented bunch here!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> What is the significance of the one pink candle?


It's usually called the "Shepherds' Candle" and represents joy. It's lit on the third Sunday of Advent. There's also supposed to be a white candle in the center that represents Christ and is lit on Christmas Eve.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Especially as I am going to some snobby food shops where the other shoppers are completely unaware anyone else is there, too.


MaidInBedlam
I frequent some of those as well and very loudly say: "Excuse me". It really startles some folks who seem to be in a trance. Met some very nice people that way. They do not conscientiously bump others, they are just a little comatose this time of the year.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I just posted on Neutral Bridges - no politics or nastiness allowed - If it starts there we can go to the workshops.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Please can I ask you to go outside while you smoke your cigar, I do not like the smell of cigar smoke and it causes me to cough and wheeze.
> 
> I love chatting with you, I enjoy your company but I just do not enjoy cigar or cigarette smoke.
> 
> The WA Opera company decided not to stage Carmen this year. This was due to pressure from one of the sponsors of the company, they did not want to promote smoking in any form. There were a lot of letters of complaint in the local paper and in the end the company agreed to put Carmen back on their repertoire, but not this year. They pulled it because the girls worked in a cigar factory. Everyone loves Carmen, it is not heavy and is full of action.


EveMCooke
I gladly go outside to puff away. It will be just a couple of puffs anyway. I do love the smell of some pipe tobacco, like Latakia. Would you believe I hate to be around smokers?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I googled "advent wreaths" and this one is the closest I could get to mine, which of course I don't have a picture of.


I haven't seen one of those since I was in grade school.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sadly Huck, it's been revealed this morning that the mother of those children has been charged with their murder.
> 
> Family, friends and neighbours are totally bewildered describing the family and the mother as close and loving.


It had to be the mother. It had to be someone the kids knew. Family, friends and neighbors are always bewildered when something this tragic occurs around them. It's too bad the children's screams didn't alert the neighbors to danger or to at least call the police.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Calm down solo, nobody said anything about repeating our wallpapering job.


At least you admit your behavior is asinine.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> At least you admit your behavior is asinine.


I admitted nothing. Stop imagining things and get on with the holiday cheer.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is there anything we can do to get you through the rest of the 7?


The time for one of them has passed, I think. For the rest, just wait.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> Letting her live, is setting her free from responsibility. Never again a care in the world, is that fair? I think not. Her Prison Cell should be wallpapered with the faces of the children and periodically changed with new age enhanced versions. Voices of crying children should be blasted around the clock into her Cell. Please, may no-one call that cruel.


Don't worry Huckleberry, we certainly wouldn't call that TORTURE of any kind. Just think a few days ago you were against torture. Go figure.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think she is thinking that "she got me" by posting my last name. She is too stupid to know that I ran a swap here and it is not news to many women here on KP. No big deal for me, but now it is a big deal for her.


It only shows what you really are. A small minded, bitter pathetic woman.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It only shows what you really are. A small minded, bitter pathetic woman.


Who peed in your Wheaties this morning? Keep posting sourpuss, you are looking smaller and more pathetic every time you post here. You are the one who is showing her bitterness here. I guess every Christmas has to have a Grinch. 
Have a sparkling day, stalker solo! You can't ruin mine!!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It would be more appropriate than a death sentence, or a lynching, which would end her suffering too soon.


Now torture is OK with you? It's okay for a woman that killed her kids, but not ok for terrorists. That's some screwy path you walk down.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Peace and serenity. Thanks.



DGreen said:


> Sure. I have lots...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Peace and serenity. Thanks.


Isn't it great, dame??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I copy and email them to myself and put it in 'emoticom' folder. That's the plan any way.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I copy the url info for these cool smileys into a Word document on my desktop.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you cooking for an army? I know you love leftovers.



MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How did you know I was biting my tongue?



DGreen said:


> Breaking my own pledge...
> 
> for KPG, anything posted by a person she doesn't like is a lie.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> From The Guardian, an article titled "Behind the Online Comments: The Psychology of Internet Trolls"
> 
> ...trolling is a status-enhancing activity: by attracting readers attention, upsetting people, sparking heated debates, and even gaining approval from others, trolls can feel important, perhaps much more than they are in their real lives. Thus trolling is yet another internet activity that promotes narcissistic motives, since trolls may be expected to be far less successful in attracting peoples attention in the physical world. The only effective antidote to their tactics is to ignore them, but even then trolls wont suffer a public humiliation because nobody knows who they are. This is what makes trolling so ubiquitous  *it requires no skills other than the ability to be obnoxious.*
> 
> ...


It appears that you will be doing a lot of talking to yourself in the future.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Do you have other photos you can share? Maybe on LOLL or neutral bridges all of us talk about our love of creating something or doing something? I would really love to see more -maybe Dame can show more of her wonderful work, and I am sure each one of us has a talent that they are proud of - All we have to do is acknowledge it.
> 
> It is good, however that we also talk about these things on a thread that has been a difficult thread and a hurtful thread. Just my opinion.


And your opinion is to be treasured. Thanks Shirley.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, shut up! I'm barely awake, trying to get through a cup of coffee, and you're making my juices flow. Between DGreen's pictures and your menu, I've already committed 3 or 4 of the 7 Deadly Sins.


Ah. A good day. Enjoy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She not only took wonderful pictures, she kept a very descriptive journal.



DGreen said:


> Yes - those and thousands more on our driving trip through Alaska and Canada last summer. I ran out of superlatives early in the trip.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> You're welcome. Going back through the photos of our trip makes me want to hit the road again.


<whispering....remember driving?>


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> How did you know I was biting my tongue?


Better to let the troll's followers comment on the troll's activities. Not worth wasting our breath on such things that are so insignificant. As we know trolls will be trolls and they will always have their little toadies following them around and living with baited breath for their next utterance. Oh my, what a funny site. :lol:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> <whispering....remember driving?>


Ha ha! Yes - miles and miles and miles...and the sore butt.

By September I'll be ready, though.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm working on being brave enough to go out and do some shopping.:mrgreen: :twisted:


I bet you'll go skipping out the door singing Christmas Carols.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I love composing dinners, then counting the seconds until the guests have decimated it and nothing but the sounds of chomping and slurping are heard in the land. I do this with a devilish gleam in my eyes.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: No wonder you love to cook with that attitude.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I admitted nothing. Stop imagining things and get on with the holiday cheer.


I'll let that lie go as it's your birthday. So have a happy one.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I'll let that lie go as it's your birthday. So have a happy one.


Hi Solo, Haven't you heard? The Lib trolls have made a pledge today to be nice and not talk about or to the good people on KP.

So, enjoy the blessings of the season!

I know you couldn't possibly know all about the pledge, particularly because even though Designer wrote another nasty post filled with lies on another thread, she edited it to read as a Holiday Greeting of the Season and edited her next nasty post of to read "Double Post."

Finally, the trolls have agreed and at least are holding their tongues today and agreed to stop spreading their hate.

A very good day indeed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Better to let the troll's followers comment on the troll's activities. Not worth wasting our breath on such things that are so insignificant. As we know trolls will be trolls and they will always have their little toadies following them around and living with baited breath for their next utterance. Oh my, what a funny site. :lol:


You can say that again! But they can't achieve their goals here anymore, Cheeky. At least not today :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone. I am knitting today and am finishing up my gd's sleeves on her dress. She is coming tomorrow to make a Ginger bread house and I have asked her to help me decorate and she is spending the day with us. We are having Christmas with the family, what are you all doing? 

I am looking forward to this Christmas - I also will be going to Church. I have found one I feel at home in which is nice. I also have some other small things to do. We don't exchange big gifts in our family, we each donate to the Charity of our choice.  We think we will donate to EMS Emergency Services here or if we are unable to do so we will find another charity. I think they have a fund to help. I went into the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday and the paramedics were, as usual, excellent- it is a service we know a lot about as DH is a retired paramedic..- my son will donate to a womens' shelter. We have so many blessings we don't need more gifts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nosh to your heart's content then. Who cares if they notice, but I bet you get waited on.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Especially as I am going to some snobby food shops where the other shoppers are completely unaware anyone else is there, too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The week right before Christmas.



DGreen said:


> What is the significance of the one pink candle?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I bet you'll go skipping out the door singing Christmas Carols.


I can just see it! Rosy cheeks and all. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Absolutely. I learned to hate smoke from the sheer volume around me as a child.



Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> I gladly go outside to puff away. It will be just a couple of puffs anyway. I do love the smell of some pipe tobacco, like Latakia. Would you believe I hate to be around smokers?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I admitted nothing. Stop imagining things and get on with the holiday cheer.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone. I am knitting today and am finishing up my gd's sleeves on her dress. She is coming tomorrow to make a Ginger bread house and I have asked her to help me decorate and she is spending the day with us. We are having Christmas with the family, what are you all doing?
> 
> I am looking forward to this Christmas - I also will be going to Church. I have found one I feel at home in which is nice. I also have some other small things to do. We don't exchange big gifts in our family, we each donate to the Charity of our choice. We think we will donate to EMS Emergency Services here or if we are unable to do so we will find another charity. I think they have a fund to help. I went into the hospital by ambulace on Wednesday and the paramedics were, as usual, excellent.- my son will donate to a womens' shelter. We have so many blessings we don't need more gifts.


Just finished trimming the tree. Will post a pic later. I have to sew up some new Christmas placemats and a table runner. Easy peasy. I may machine quilt them. 
Then it's off to dinner and a movie with DH.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The time for one of them has passed, I think. For the rest, just wait.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Who peed in your Wheaties this morning? Keep posting sourpuss, you are looking smaller and more pathetic every time you post here. You are the one who is showing her bitterness here. I guess every Christmas has to have a Grinch.
> Have a sparkling day, stalker solo! You can't ruin mine!!!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Solo, Haven't you heard? The Lib trolls have made a pledge today to be nice and not talk about or to the good people on KP.
> 
> So, enjoy the blessings of the season!
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone. I am knitting today and am finishing up my gd's sleeves on her dress. She is coming tomorrow to make a Ginger bread house and I have asked her to help me decorate and she is spending the day with us. We are having Christmas with the family, what are you all doing?
> 
> I am looking forward to this Christmas - I also will be going to Church. I have found one I feel at home in which is nice. I also have some other small things to do. We don't exchange big gifts in our family, we each donate to the Charity of our choice. We think we will donate to EMS Emergency Services here or if we are unable to do so we will find another charity. I think they have a fund to help. I went into the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday and the paramedics were, as usual, excellent- it is a service we know a lot about as DH is a retired paramedic..- my son will donate to a womens' shelter. We have so many blessings we don't need more gifts.


How very nice that you have different charities to donate to. My DH is a Marine. We collect the toys a few nights a week for Toys for Tots. My favorite charity is for the local homeless shelter.
We go out to St. John's University every Christmas Eve for Midnight Mass.
It is such a touching experience. Listening to the monks chant is so amazing. It's a long service, but well worth attending.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Why would you think that? In fact, I happen to have a pair at home I could give you, though the huge round frames are speckled green, like malachite.


Are they the same as Cheryl Holland's? Take a pic of them, post it and we can be the judge.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Better to let the troll's followers comment on the troll's activities. Not worth wasting our breath on such things that are so insignificant. As we know trolls will be trolls and they will always have their little toadies following them around and living with baited breath for their next utterance. Oh my, what a funny site. :lol:


Cheeks!!!! Hi. Love you xmas avatar. For a moment I thought it was a troll but then realized it was Father Xmas. Like it.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just finished trimming the tree. Will post a pic later. I have to sew up some new Christmas placemats and a table runner. Easy peasy. I may machine quilt them.
> Then it's off to dinner and a movie with DH.


Happy Birthday, Bratala. How old are you now?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have not caught up with today's news but I was wondering if there could be a question of authorities taking the children into custody. Neighbours said she was acting strangely, putting her furniture on the verge and giving it away. Someone said they heard her screaming " They cannot take them away, they are my children, I am changing the way I live". The community where she lived is a very close community, they will all gather around her extended famly, offering them support.


I read this morning that police are questioning drug use of the mother in the months leading up to the murders. Link to news below:

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/12/20/04/55/neighbours-heard-womans-screams-night-before-children-found-dead


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How about a larger version? Here you go.


Beautiful shot Green!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That makes good sense. Today I'm going to make a bunch of beef stock so I can make gravy to go with Christmas dinner's roasted beef tenderloin. The tenderloin roasts in no time so there aren't a lot of pan juices. Let's have a big cheer for good gravy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: And horseradish sauce, mashed potatoes, biscuits, cranberry sauce, shrimp salad, apple custard pie and whatever else I decide to make :thumbup: :thumbup:


Maid, I've just eaten and after reading your post, hungry again! I'd love to come to your Christmas dinner. Yum.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, shut up! I'm barely awake, trying to get through a cup of coffee, and you're making my juices flow. Between DGreen's pictures and your menu, I've already committed 3 or 4 of the 7 Deadly Sins.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is there anything we can do to get you through the rest of the 7?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I love composing dinners, then counting the seconds until the guests have decimated it and nothing but the sounds of chomping and slurping are heard in the land. I do this with a devilish gleam in my eyes.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh, the laughing I'm doing. Sides of belly aching, tears streaming...keep it up!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Don't worry Huckleberry, we certainly wouldn't call that TORTURE of any kind. Just think a few days ago you were against torture. Go figure.


Where does it say anything about TORTURE in Huckleberry's message? She's discussing appropriate punishment for someone guilty of a crime, not a sadistic way of trying to get information from someone who hasn't been proved guilty of anything. Or can't you tell the difference?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It only shows what you really are. A small minded, bitter pathetic woman.


Huh? Isn't the person who posted her name and made fun of it the "small minded, bitter pathetic woman"? In fact, isn't that a good description of you? (Mind you, I'm just asking, not being abusive.  )


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DP


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Who peed in your Wheaties this morning? Keep posting sourpuss, you are looking smaller and more pathetic every time you post here. You are the one who is showing her bitterness here. I guess every Christmas has to have a Grinch.
> Have a sparkling day, stalker solo! You can't ruin mine!!!


She sounds just like her Mommy. I wonder if she's under orders or just wants to ingratiate her un-Christian self with the bigots she chooses to hang with.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Now torture is OK with you? It's okay for a woman that killed her kids, but not ok for terrorists. That's some screwy path you walk down.


It wasn't done to terrorists for the most part; a lot of the men tortured have never been proven guilty of anything. And even for those who were guilty, do you really think doing it 70, 80, 183 times was an effective way to get information from them.

Or was it abuse, plain and simple, the kind you find legitimate.

As for the woman, how do you see it as torture to keep her children's pictures and voices around her? I'm sure she misses them terribly and would welcome seeing and hearing them again.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It appears that you will be doing a lot of talking to yourself in the future.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It wasn't done to terrorists for the most part; a lot of the men tortured have never been proven guilty of anything. And even for those who were guilty, do you really think doing it 70, 80, 183 times was an effective way to get information from them.
> 
> Or was it abuse, plain and simple, the kind you find legitimate.
> 
> As for the woman, how do you see it as torture to keep her children's pictures and voices around her? I'm sure she misses them terribly and would welcome seeing and hearing them again.


What if she doesn't feel any remorse? Was she homeschooling them?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Solo, Haven't you heard? The Lib trolls have made a pledge today to be nice and not talk about or to the good people on KP.
> 
> So, enjoy the blessings of the season!
> 
> ...


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Well, the horrors continue and this time in Brooklyn, N.Y., where two police officers have been 'assassinated' while sitting in their marked police car. 28 year old male is responsible who has turned the gun on himself following the incident:

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/12/21/08/40/two-us-police-officers-shot

Edit: Suspect shot his girlfriend before shooting the 2 officers according to police.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> knitpresentgifts said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Solo, Haven't you heard?
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Better to let the troll's followers comment on the troll's activities. Not worth wasting our breath on such things that are so insignificant. As we know trolls will be trolls and they will always have their little toadies following them around and living with baited breath for their next utterance. Oh my, what a funny site. :lol:


The toady here tonight is running herself ragged. And being very funny at it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone. I am knitting today and am finishing up my gd's sleeves on her dress. She is coming tomorrow to make a Ginger bread house and I have asked her to help me decorate and she is spending the day with us. We are having Christmas with the family, what are you all doing?
> 
> I am looking forward to this Christmas - I also will be going to Church. I have found one I feel at home in which is nice. I also have some other small things to do. We don't exchange big gifts in our family, we each donate to the Charity of our choice. We think we will donate to EMS Emergency Services here or if we are unable to do so we will find another charity. I think they have a fund to help. I went into the hospital by ambulance on Wednesday and the paramedics were, as usual, excellent- it is a service we know a lot about as DH is a retired paramedic..- my son will donate to a womens' shelter. We have so many blessings we don't need more gifts.


Isn't this what Christmas was about originally?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Are they the same as Cheryl Holland's? Take a pic of them, post it and we can be the judge.


If you'll pose wearing them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> What if she doesn't feel any remorse? Was she homeschooling them?


If she doesn't feel remorse, then the pictures will only annoy her. Big deal.

What does homeschooling have to do with anything?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If she doesn't feel remorse, then the pictures will only annoy her. Big deal.
> 
> What does homeschooling have to do with anything?


Try being home 24 hours with 7-8 kids. That other child-killer went off the deep end because her husband insisted she homeschool the kids. The isolation and religious fundamentalism can be triggers.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Try being home 24 hours with 7-8 kids. That other child-killer went off the deep end because her husband insisted she homeschool the kids. The isolation and religious fundamentalism can be triggers.


Apparently there were 5 different fathers for the 7 children. Sounds like the mother had some serious mental and life issues.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Apparently there were 5 different fathers for the 7 children. Sounds like the mother had some serious mental and life issues.


Can a causation be established between having a lot of lovers and killing their children?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I never ask questions like this. I figure they'll tell me if they want me to know. It's like someone asking if you're pregnant IMO.



SQM said:


> Happy Birthday, Bratala. How old are you now?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


>


Very useful.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


>


Another VERY useful one. You will see this again on the test. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It wasn't done to terrorists for the most part; a lot of the men tortured have never been proven guilty of anything. And even for those who were guilty, do you really think doing it 70, 80, 183 times was an effective way to get information from them.
> 
> Or was it abuse, plain and simple, the kind you find legitimate.
> 
> As for the woman, how do you see it as torture to keep her children's pictures and voices around her? I'm sure she misses them terribly and would welcome seeing and hearing them again.


Being a Torres Straight Islander she will miss her children, the extended family is so very important to our Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Aussies. The community is rallying around to offer support to all her extended family.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Warning. Sick sense of humor.

Another Saturday night and I ain't got no body.....



Wombatnomore said:


> Well, the horrors continue and this time in Brooklyn, N.Y., where two police officers have been 'assassinated' while sitting in their marked police car. 28 year old male is responsible who has turned the gun on himself following the incident:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/12/21/08/40/two-us-police-officers-shot
> 
> Edit: Suspect shot his girlfriend before shooting the 2 officers according to police.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Alluding to Andrea Yates?



Poor Purl said:


> If she doesn't feel remorse, then the pictures will only annoy her. Big deal.
> 
> What does homeschooling have to do with anything?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> What if she doesn't feel any remorse? Was she homeschooling them?


I very much doubt it, we do not home school as much as you do in Australia. The children did attend the local school because there are photos of children laying flowers in memory of their school mates.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Try being home 24 hours with 7-8 kids. That other child-killer went off the deep end because her husband insisted she homeschool the kids. The isolation and religious fundamentalism can be triggers.


Not a question of isolation or religious fundamentalism here. As I said she was a Torres Straight Islander, and they have a very strong sense of community. The community rally around to help each other. They are showing their grief and pain. Some are just sitting near the house to show their support.

The Torres Straight Islanders are wonderful people, happy, sharing and caring people. The extended family is so important to them.

Some very good information at this link

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-21/family-of-killed-children-visit-memorial-attend-church-services/5981570


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Apparently there were 5 different fathers for the 7 children. Sounds like the mother had some serious mental and life issues.


No, not serious mental and life issues, more to do with the Torres Straight Islanders cultural way of life. They have a totally different outlook on life to people in the USA. Hard to explain in a few words, especially if you do not understand the people and their culture.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Can a causation be established between having a lot of lovers and killing their children?


No definitely not .


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I never ask questions like this. I figure they'll tell me if they want me to know. It's like someone asking if you're pregnant IMO.


How old are you? Older than my teeth and as young as my ideas. That should be Bratty's answer.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> How old are you? Older than my teeth and as young as my ideas. That should be Bratty's answer.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> How old are you? Older than my teeth and as young as my ideas. That should be Bratty's answer.


LOL! Thanks, Evie!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL! Thanks, Evie!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Happy, happy birthday Miss Brat! Wishing you many, many more and health and prosperity. :-D :-D :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Happy, happy birthday Miss Brat! Wishing you many, many more and health and prosperity. :-D :-D :-D


Thank You, Wombat! It was a great day


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thank You, Wombat! It was a great day


Spill the birthday beans. How old are you now?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> How old are you? Older than my teeth and as young as my ideas. That should be Bratty's answer.


EveMCooke
what a clever answer. Have to remember it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Spill the birthday beans. How old are you now?


I am 21 in my heart, 29 in my mind and ......who cares about numbers anyway?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
Happy Birthday and many, many more in the best of health. I am happy you came into my Life. Huck


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Happy Birthday and many, many more in the best of health. I am happy you came into my Life. Huck


Thanks, Huck! You are a very special person in my life!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Try being home 24 hours with 7-8 kids. That other child-killer went off the deep end because her husband insisted she homeschool the kids. The isolation and religious fundamentalism can be triggers.


I guess you're right. Now that you mention it, I'm surprised there are still kids left alive in the homeschooling movement.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Can a causation be established between having a lot of lovers and killing their children?


There's certainly some kind of emotional/psychological problem.

Cute avatar you have.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Another VERY useful one. You will see this again on the test. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Being a Torres Straight Islander she will miss her children, the extended family is so very important to our Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island Aussies. The community is rallying around to offer support to all her extended family.


How do they deal with a mother like her?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's certainly some kind of emotional/psychological problem.
> 
> Cute avatar you have.


Yeah, thanks. I just woke up to the idea that summer is over.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How do they deal with a mother like her?


So far there has not been any evidence to show that she was not a caring and loving mother. Something went horribly wrong. They think she may have been on ice but that does not prove she was not a caring mother. The Torres Straight Islanders are extremely caring and loving community. They are there for each other. Please do not judge this woman by American or British standards of how a society should or must work, there is a world of difference in the two cultures. The community is in deep shock and has entered the cultural morning period.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> So far there has not been any evidence to show that she was not a caring and loving mother. Something went horribly wrong. They think she may have been on ice but that does not prove she was not a caring mother. The Torres Straight Islanders are extremely caring and loving community. They are there for each other. Please do not judge this woman by American or British standards of how a society should or must work, there is a world of difference in the two cultures. The community is in deep shock and has entered the cultural morning period.


So their closeness can even find room for a mother who has done what most other groups would see as unthinkable? That's very unusual, I would think. Even when something as bad as this happens, there's a reason for it. I suppose if one could find the reason, one could also find a way to forgive the perpetrator.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> No, not serious mental and life issues, more to do with the Torres Straight Islanders cultural way of life. They have a totally different outlook on life to people in the USA. Hard to explain in a few words, especially if you do not understand the people and their culture.


I did not know that, so my comments were out of line. I'm definitely not familiar with that culture.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Are you cooking for an army? I know you love leftovers.


It seems like I'm cooking for an army but it's only for three. The various dishes will be small, but there will be a lot of variety. The roast will only take a few minutes. I'm starting to think I could just walk it past a hot oven and that would be that.

I actually have spent a lot of time cooking for large numbers of people as I gave a lot of parties until I moved in with my mother. Also was a pizza cook and a short order cook which was pretty interesting. I don't have the big house where I could have huge parties and fix heaps of good food. I'm sure I'll get back to that one of these days. Quiche for a hundred people...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It seems like I'm cooking for an army but it's only for three. The various dishes will be small, but there will be a lot of variety. The roast will only take a few minutes. I'm starting to think I could just walk it past a hot oven and that would be that.
> 
> I actually have spent a lot of time cooking for large numbers of people as I gave a lot of parties until I moved in with my mother. Also was a pizza cook and a short order cook which was pretty interesting. I don't have the big house where I could have huge parties and fix heaps of good food. I'm sure I'll get back to that one of these days. Quiche for a hundred people...


Just thinking of that makes me wish I had some anti-anxiety medications. I think it's wonderful that you can do all that and enjoy it, too.

Your avatar is lovely. What is it, before you replace with something else?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thank You, Wombat! It was a great day


I'm sorry I missed it. Happy belated birthday wishes!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Just thinking of that makes me wish I had some anti-anxiety medications. I think it's wonderful that you can do all that and enjoy it, too.
> 
> Your avatar is lovely. What is it, before you replace with something else?


I googled "pictures of peace on earth" and that was one of the pictures that was included. Looks like someone ancient and famous painted it but the pic didn't include information about the original source.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Just thinking of that makes me wish I had some anti-anxiety medications. I think it's wonderful that you can do all that and enjoy it, too.
> 
> Your avatar is lovely. What is it, before you replace with something else?


Once my housemates made me sit out 100 percent on the planning and presenting of a party. I thought I was going to die!! I had to laugh instead. It was quite a lesson.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Once my housemates made me sit out 100 percent on the planning and presenting of a party. I thought I was going to die!! I had to laugh instead. It was quite a lesson.


I used to do all the planning and work for Thanksgiving and Christmas and loved every minute of it. Then I married into a family where the men pretty much plan the menu and everything is potluck and very casual. Still getting use to the new way of doing things. I gave all my party dishes to my daughter, who still throws big parties and gatherings. Good to know I taught her a lot.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I googled "pictures of peace on earth" and that was one of the pictures that was included. Looks like someone ancient and famous painted it but the pic didn't include information about the original source.


Very nice.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry I missed it. Happy belated birthday wishes!


Thank you, KFN


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I used to do all the planning and work for Thanksgiving and Christmas and loved every minute of it. Then I married into a family where the men pretty much plan the menu and everything is potluck and very casual. Still getting use to the new way of doing things. I gave all my party dishes to my daughter, who still throws big parties and gatherings. Good to know I taught her a lot.


My son usually makes Christmas breakfast. Last year it was an egg strata.
It was heaven on a plate. This year will be another surprise breakfast. I cook the dinner. The kids always ask for something Italian. I was going to make manicotti, but they want stuffed shells instead. Same ingredients, different pasta and much easier to fill. I can make them the day before. I'll make a Caesar salad and garlic bread to go along with it. I always have all kinds of light munchies set out during the day.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My son usually makes Christmas breakfast. Last year it was an egg strata.
> It was heaven on a plate. This year will be another surprise breakfast. I cook the dinner. The kids always ask for something Italian. I was going to make manicotti, but they want stuffed shells instead. Same ingredients, different pasta and much easier to fill. I can make them the day before. I'll make a Caesar salad and garlic bread to go along with it. I always have all kinds of light munchies set out during the day.


BINGO! We are having Italian this year, too. DIL doesn't eat beef or pork, so she can bring her own lasagna. I'll make one with homemade Italian sausage and homemade sauce. I'm baking sourdough Italian bread. Single men are on salad duty, and my hubby's ex is going to supply cannolis. Everyone bringing wine. Easy - and my dear daughter, who is hosting family gatherings three days in a row, gets to turn on the oven.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess you're right. Now that you mention it, I'm surprised there are still kids left alive in the homeschooling movement.


Poor Purl
sometimes I get the feeling that the husbands want to tie their wives down and homeschooling is one way to do it. Both Parents should have to take turns taking care of the children, that will fix some issues rather quickly. Many house husbands have learned that their "new" job is the most difficult one they ever had.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> BINGO! We are having Italian this year, too. DIL doesn't eat beef or pork, so she can bring her own lasagna. I'll make one with homemade Italian sausage and homemade sauce. I'm baking sourdough Italian bread. Single men are on salad duty, and my hubby's ex is going to supply cannolis. Everyone bringing wine. Easy - and my dear daughter, who is hosting family gatherings three days in a row, gets to turn on the oven.


My daughter is not into cooking as much as I thought she would be. However, she can bake like no other. She is supplying dessert, which is another surprise. 
I love cannoli!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> BINGO! We are having Italian this year, too. DIL doesn't eat beef or pork, so she can bring her own lasagna. I'll make one with homemade Italian sausage and homemade sauce. I'm baking sourdough Italian bread. Single men are on salad duty, and my hubby's ex is going to supply cannolis. Everyone bringing wine. Easy - and my dear daughter, who is hosting family gatherings three days in a row, gets to turn on the oven.


DGreen
sourdough Italian bread. I am begging for a slice and gladly take clean-up duty. What a wonderful crew you have gathered for your feast. Happy Holidays.

I am slurping a hot buttered Rum. sporting a horrible Throat infection. Works better for me than the chemicals Doctors are quick to order. No doubt, some ailments need special medications but I try this one for now. Need to be up to par to host my Guests Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Love to entertain full blown. Dining room all ready so not to forget any detail and everything is covered up - looks a little ghostly.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> My daughter is not into cooking as much as I thought she would be. However, she can bake like no other. She is supplying dessert, which is another surprise.
> I love cannoli!!


BrattyPatty
some individuals take on some tasks later in Life and become experts at it. It often depends on the encouragement from their partners they get. I much focused on my profession but became good at cooking and baking since my dear Pal loves everything I make. According to him I am the best there is. He eats rather little but enjoys each bite to the fullest. Well worth the effort I say.

Yikes I am getting a heat wave from the Rum. Not used to those.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> BINGO! We are having Italian this year, too. DIL doesn't eat beef or pork, so she can bring her own lasagna. I'll make one with homemade Italian sausage and homemade sauce. I'm baking sourdough Italian bread. Single men are on salad duty, and my hubby's ex is going to supply cannolis. Everyone bringing wine. Easy - and my dear daughter, who is hosting family gatherings three days in a row, gets to turn on the oven.


DGreen
ever drink spiced Wine or Apple Cider? Hmm good. I also like Dr. Pepper heated up without any spices. We are serving among other things Wassail Punch made with Apples. Hubby is in charge of that.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> ever drink spiced Wine or Apple Cider? Hmm good. I also like Dr. Pepper heated up without any spices. We are serving among other things Wassail Punch made with Apples. Hubby is in charge of that.


Yes! I have a recipe for Wassil. GREAT idea. I like spiced wine a lot - I'm a red wine drinker. Leftover wine? I make a wine syrup that is to die for on cheesecake. Now you've got me going....


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> sometimes I get the feeling that the husbands want to tie their wives down and homeschooling is one way to do it. Both Parents should have to take turns taking care of the children, that will fix some issues rather quickly. Many house husbands have learned that their "new" job is the most difficult one they ever had.


Only sometimes? It's important to certain men that they keep their wives and children away from the rest of the world, where they might see very different relationships. And especially the wives - at least that seems to be true in abusive relationships, and I have no doubt that a lot, if not most, of the men in the homeschooling movement are abusive in some way.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> sourdough Italian bread. I am begging for a slice and gladly take clean-up duty. What a wonderful crew you have gathered for your feast. Happy Holidays.
> 
> I am slurping a hot buttered Rum. sporting a horrible Throat infection. Works better for me than the chemicals Doctors are quick to order. No doubt, some ailments need special medications but I try this one for now. Need to be up to par to host my Guests Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Love to entertain full blown. Dining room all ready so not to forget any detail and everything is covered up - looks a little ghostly.


Hot buttered rum ought to get rid of whatever ails you, and if it doesn't, you won't care that much anyway. Feel better soon.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Line Of Scrimmage said:


> knitpresentgifts said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Solo, Haven't you heard? The Lib trolls have made a pledge today to be nice and not talk about or to the good people on KP.
> ...


I thought this was the season of peace on earth and good will to men. I don't see it coming from the Queen of Hatred, who, as you point out, will always slap the liberal's hand, no matter what is said. It must be hard to be only _against_ things, never _for_ anything.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes! I have a recipe for Wassil. GREAT idea. I like spiced wine a lot - I'm a red wine drinker. Leftover wine? I make a wine syrup that is to die for on cheesecake. Now you've got me going....


DGreen
wine syrup for cheesecake? Got to have that recipe. I never pass up cheesecake.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I thought this was the season of peace on earth and good will to men. I don't see it coming from the Queen of Hatred, who, as you point out, will always slap the liberal's hand, no matter what is said. It must be hard to be only _against_ things, never _for_ anything.


Poor Purl
that is how it goes when one is always left out. What a lonely creature.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> BINGO! We are having Italian this year, too. DIL doesn't eat beef or pork, so she can bring her own lasagna. I'll make one with homemade Italian sausage and homemade sauce. I'm baking sourdough Italian bread. Single men are on salad duty, and my hubby's ex is going to supply cannolis. Everyone bringing wine. Easy - and my dear daughter, who is hosting family gatherings three days in a row, gets to turn on the oven.


Do you make your own sourdough starter? I need to learn how to do that. It's a great hole in my life.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> that is how it goes when one is always left out. Lonely creature.


There are all those minions, but talking to them must be like talking to herself, since they rarely have original thoughts. Yes, I'd think it was lonely, Huck.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I thought this was the season of peace on earth and good will to men. I don't see it coming from the Queen of Hatred, who, as you point out, will always slap the liberal's hand, no matter what is said. It must be hard to be only _against_ things, never _for_ anything.


She is actually a sad case to hate so much! Especially, when she puts on such a kind loving face to her friends.

Lack of respect which we feel about her is entirely different than hate. It is the belief that she is so much better than everyone who doesn't agree with her that I find so sad. I also happen to know what Christianity should be as my Grandmother was the kindest, truest Christian I have ever met. She is the reason I still try to meet her standards, not those of my narrow, rigid Father who was a complete hypocrit. I don't meet my own requirements especially on the threads a few of them post on.

I have never believed that the Bible says that hate is what Christianity is about - or arrogance. Oh well. They will have to meet their maker and then it will be decided by a higher power. I have no fear about that as the best person I have ever met who was a very strong Baptist - loved all her fellow men and tried every day of her life to be kind. She accepted everyone and believed that there was shame in attacking those who don't agree. She was never arrogant nor did she ever judge. She spent her life doing her very best no matter who didn't. She was the opposite of everything my Father was. He would have fit in very well with some of those others. I think Bonnie represents the good. She is not unkind, nor is she weak in her faith. There are others there as well that we never hear from. That is why I admire her.

I believe that all of the people on Denim and purls are not the same in the arrogance and complete attitude that only they know all the answers. I might be wrong.
Bonnie reminds me of my Grandmother.

To those on this group who are friends of mine, I don't want to have anyone think that I Judge those who have a different faith or no faith . It is not my place to do so and I just don't believe that I have the right to judge. It is hard enough to try to live up to my own beliefs, and I rarely manage to do it as well as my Grandmother.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> wine syrup for cheesecake? Got to have that recipe. I never pass up cheesecake.


1 C. sugar for each 3 C. wine - preferably red or mixture of reds.

Simmer until reduced to syrupy consistency. This takes several hours.

Pour into bottle.

Keep in refrigerator.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you make your own sourdough starter? I need to learn how to do that. It's a great hole in my life.


Yes. I "caught" my yeast years ago and have kept it alive forever.

Good way to ensure success - soak raisins in water and use the water (without the raisins) to mix with flour. Set out at room temperature and after a couple of days it will begin to "work." Feeding and maintaining starter not difficult, but one does have to bake relatively often - at least every two weeks, though I usually bake at least once a week. Yea for the Kitchen Aid.

The whitish substance on raisins is...you guessed it...wild yeast.

My starter is mildly tangy, but not overwhelmingly so like the San Francisco variety. The reason I like making sourdough bread is for the consistency, which tends to be a little more dense and chewy than regular bread. I always use bread flour and extra gluten for a better crust.

Also makes out of this world English muffins and dinner rolls. Recipes upon request and I can even send a bit of dehydrated starter if anyone is interested.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> sourdough Italian bread. I am begging for a slice and gladly take clean-up duty. What a wonderful crew you have gathered for your feast. Happy Holidays.
> 
> I am slurping a hot buttered Rum. sporting a horrible Throat infection. Works better for me than the chemicals Doctors are quick to order. No doubt, some ailments need special medications but I try this one for now. Need to be up to par to host my Guests Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. Love to entertain full blown. Dining room all ready so not to forget any detail and everything is covered up - looks a little ghostly.


Oh dear - poor timing. Well, any time is a bad time to be sick. Stay down and pamper yourself. At least you're ready and won't have to so much to do on Christmas. Be well.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There are all those minions, but talking to them must be like talking to herself, since they rarely have original thoughts. Yes, I'd think it was lonely, Huck.


So true - parrot heads.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My son usually makes Christmas breakfast. Last year it was an egg strata.
> It was heaven on a plate. This year will be another surprise breakfast. I cook the dinner. The kids always ask for something Italian. I was going to make manicotti, but they want stuffed shells instead. Same ingredients, different pasta and much easier to fill. I can make them the day before. I'll make a Caesar salad and garlic bread to go along with it. I always have all kinds of light munchies set out during the day.


I'm pretty sure I've been at your table!! Italian works so well, especially manicotti or stuffed shells! All the guests think you worked yourself to death when you only worked yourself half way there. After all, a good sauce needs time to develop. :twisted: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes. I "caught" my yeast years ago and have kept it alive forever.
> 
> Good way to ensure success - soak raisins in water and use the water (without the raisins) to mix with flour. Set out at room temperature and after a couple of days it will begin to "work." Feeding and maintaining starter not difficult, but one does have to bake relatively often - at least every two weeks, though I usually bake at least once a week. Yea for the Kitchen Aid.
> 
> ...


Ooh, thank you. I'll try to make the starter myself. I love watching things develop over a few days.

Where do you get the extra gluten? Is that what's call vital wheat gluten?

I currently have 3 pounds of rye flour (and 20 lb. of bread flour - don't ask) and I'd love to try sourdough rye.

I also, for a lark, bought a pound of oat flour and don't know what to do with it. Any suggestions?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> So true - parrot heads.


But parrot heads are colorful. These robo talkers are very dull.

I recently learned that there are colonies of parrots living in the wild in Brooklyn. It's very exciting.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> sometimes I get the feeling that the husbands want to tie their wives down and homeschooling is one way to do it. Both Parents should have to take turns taking care of the children, that will fix some issues rather quickly. Many house husbands have learned that their "new" job is the most difficult one they ever had.


I tend to see a pretty good amount of TV and I notice that a lot of commercials feature stay-at-home dads instead of moms. Unemployment may be down, but mostly for women, who are cheaper to hire. So Dad stays home and gets to be influenced to buy stuff instead of Mom.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Only sometimes? It's important to certain men that they keep their wives and children away from the rest of the world, where they might see very different relationships. And especially the wives - at least that seems to be true in abusive relationships, and I have no doubt that a lot, if not most, of the men in the homeschooling movement are abusive in some way.


Of course, the moms are adults and probably pretty good at thinking their way out of paper bags. Distract 'em one way or another seems to be the theme.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Yes. I "caught" my yeast years ago and have kept it alive forever.
> 
> Good way to ensure success - soak raisins in water and use the water (without the raisins) to mix with flour. Set out at room temperature and after a couple of days it will begin to "work." Feeding and maintaining starter not difficult, but one does have to bake relatively often - at least every two weeks, though I usually bake at least once a week. Yea for the Kitchen Aid.
> 
> ...


I haven't had my own starter in ages, didn't know about raisins, and am very, very fond of SF Bay area sourdough. I think I need to experiment!!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I haven't had my own starter in ages, didn't know about raisins, and am very, very fond of SF Bay area sourdough. I think I need to experiment!!


Some helpful reading for you and Purl.

Variations in methods so try not to get confused. Another VERY good starter can be made by soaking wheat berries in the water. I've used that successfully, too.

http://www.localharvest.org/blog/18258/entry/sourdough_starter_from_scratch_capturing

http://www.sourdoughhome.com/index.php?content=startermyway2

http://www.thekitchn.com/how-to-make-your-own-sourdough-starter-cooking-lessons-from-the-kitchn-47337

Above all, patience is important and you need to be willing to keep trying if at first you don't succeed.

I bought San Francisco starter once - blah. Didn't do anything. If you decide to send away for a starter, I recommend using the source listed in the second link.

Essential wheat gluten is the ingredient I use. I have found it in the organic section of my grocery store and it is available online. A one pound bag will last a long, long time, since a batch of bread (2 loaves) takes 2 T. of gluten.

Obviously, I do not subscribe to the current anti-gluten fad that would have us believe gluten is poison. For some, yes, but not as widespread as the purveyors of expensive, chemical-laden substitutes would have us believe.

Hard to come by rye flour in my neck of the woods, but by all means, whole grain and rye are FANTASTIC in bread. Just remember, rye needs some regular wheat as it has little or no gluten - an essential ingredient.

Oameal flour? I would use it in mixed grain bread. Otherwise, I don't think I've seen recipes that use it. I eat oatmeal almost every day - love the stuff.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> To those on this group who are friends of mine, I don't want to have anyone think that I Judge those who have a different faith or no faith . It is not my place to do so and I just don't believe that I have the right to judge. It is hard enough to try to live up to my own beliefs, and I rarely manage to do it as well as my Grandmother.


Your humility is the exact opposite of what we see from that other person.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am taking a break from gift wrapping. I just realized that it has been over 30 years since I have had to wrap vinyl record albums! My son has quite a collection and mentioned 2 that he would like. Barnes and Noble had them. It just brought me back......to the very last one I gave as a gift. It was
Steely Dan's' Aja' album back in 77.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But parrot heads are colorful. These robo talkers are very dull.
> 
> I recently learned that there are colonies of parrots living in the wild in Brooklyn. It's very exciting.


Like birds escaped from cages? How cool that they survived if so.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Hot buttered rum ought to get rid of whatever ails you, and if it doesn't, you won't care that much anyway. Feel better soon.


Poor Purl
feeling better, happy to report. Not good but much better. After the hot buttered Rum, my legs did the Rum-ba. It does not take much to knock me off my feet. I am a cheap lush. Two sips of red Wine and I am in lala-land. The Hospitals ask patients to not come to the ER unless they are very sick. Too many infectious folks hanging out there. They say to take Tylenol, lots of fluids and rest. We went to a Christmas Party Thursday and lots of sneezing there. I think I brought it home from there.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> sounds like it.


I can answer that. Yes, it was! 
Shirley, I loved the picture of your grand and the tree. Such preciuos memories to store!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am taking a break from gift wrapping. I just realized that it has been over 30 years since I have had to wrap vinyl record albums! My son has quite a collection and mentioned 2 that he would like. Barnes and Noble had them. It just brought me back......to the very last one I gave as a gift. It was
> Steely Dan's' Aja' album back in 77.


BrattyPatty
Vinyl records are making a big comeback. Got plenty of those and the appliances to play them on. We have always listened to them. The sound is much more pleasurable than
the super-engineered CDs. Your Son has good taste.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Vinyl records are making a big comeback. Got plenty of those and the appliances to play them on. We have always listened to them. The sound is much more pleasurable than
> the super-engineered CDs. Your Son has good taste.


There is no doubt about that, Huck. I have saved my favorites, but will have to get a new turntable to play them on. The records taht my son requested were Paul Simon's "Graceland' and Joni Mitchell 'Blue'. I was very lucky to find them!
I hope you feel better soon!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> 1 C. sugar for each 3 C. wine - preferably red or mixture of reds.
> 
> Simmer until reduced to syrupy consistency. This takes several hours.
> 
> ...


DGreen
Thank you very much. Copied and will make some tomorrow. I will also try it in Sparkling Water. Should taste good.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There is no doubt about that, Huck. I have saved my favorites, but will have to get a new turntable to play them on. The records taht my son requested were Paul Simon's "Graceland' and Joni Mitchell 'Blue'. I was very lucky to find them!
> I hope you feel better soon!


BrattyPatty
thank you, I am obedient and do what it takes to get well.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can answer that. Yes, it was!
> Shirley, I loved the picture of your grand and the tree. Such preciuos memories to store!


She is best at mathematics, and also turning into quite an artist. She loved being allowed to do it all by herself today. I am still not feeling l00% so I told her I couldn't help her. She thought that was wonderful as" her parents weren't very good at it but they were taller than she is and so that didn't help any!" She is brutally honest. I am sure she also told them that she felt they 'ganging up on her and it isn't fair as two against one is hard to deal with, especially as they are bigger"

We could hardly keep our laughter from showing. She knows that only if it is something we know they should know that she can say pretty well anything as long as she told us confidentially and she knows she can say what she feels. That is the first time I have ever heard her criticize Dad and Mom, as Mom is still flying a lot to Europe and Dad is retired and a 'stay at home Dad." Mom loves to fly and he told her he would get another job if she wanted time off she said NO!

Hayley is in a French Immersion school and they speak it all the time at school (no English). Mom has to know it to fly (this is Canada you know, and Quebec is French and has a large population, so has an important role in Canadian Politics)

As a result they speak french to each other all the time as it keeps french fresh in Mom's mind and is good practice for Hayley. works well. They chatter in French and son doesn't speak a word. Good for them if it is his birthday.

She tried on her knitted sweater, today as I had to measure the sleeves - (she picked all the colors). It is much like mine and so she wants a picture of us wearing them so we could be twins to put in her room. Melted me!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There is no doubt about that, Huck. I have saved my favorites, but will have to get a new turntable to play them on. The records taht my son requested were Paul Simon's "Graceland' and Joni Mitchell 'Blue'. I was very lucky to find them!
> I hope you feel better soon!


BrattyPatty
interesting how much we played the records in years past while the CDs don't get used as much. Remember being at a Birthday Party and a number of us brought records to play. They all were stacked on a chair and someone forgot to look where to sit and destroyed all of them. We all pitched in to replace them. It could have happened to any one of us.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> She is best at mathematics, and also turning into quite an artist. She loved being allowed to do it all by herself today. I am still not feeling l00% so I told her I couldn't help her. She thought that was wonderful as" her parents weren't very good at it but they were taller than she is and so that didn't help any!" She is brutally honest. I am sure she also told them that she felt they 'ganging up on her and it isn't fair as two against one is hard to deal with, especially as they are bigger"
> 
> We could hardly keep our laughter from showing. She knows that only if it is something we know they should know that she can say pretty well anything as long as she told us confidentially and she knows she can say what she feels. That is the first time I have ever heard her criticize Dad and Mom, as Mom is still flying a lot to Europe and Dad is retired and a 'stay at home Dad." Mom loves to fly and he told her he would get another job if she wanted time off she said NO!
> 
> ...


She sounds like a wonderful little girl. It looks like she has inherited her grandmother's talents!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> 1 C. sugar for each 3 C. wine - preferably red or mixture of reds.
> 
> Simmer until reduced to syrupy consistency. This takes several hours.
> 
> ...


That looks delicious. I think it would go well over a nice round of baked Brie.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Some helpful reading for you and Purl.
> 
> Variations in methods so try not to get confused. Another VERY good starter can be made by soaking wheat berries in the water. I've used that successfully, too.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all this information, D. I love reading this kind of thing, and I'm eager to start. I don't keep raisins around, but I have wheatberries, so I'll start with those. Better than eating them (my son buys them - he prefers them to any other cooked grain - his parents not so much). This will be a really fun way to heat up the world.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Like birds escaped from cages? How cool that they survived if so.


I think the story is that a truck transporting them to a pet shop had an accident, and a few got free and went on their merry way, then became fruitful and multiplied. There are plenty of parklike spaces in Brooklyn, and that's where they hang out.

Wow, it turns out there are a lot of websites about these guys; 
http://www.wildparrotsny.com/index/history.html looks like a major one. Pictures and all. There are even organized trips to search for them.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> feeling better, happy to report. Not good but much better. After the hot buttered Rum, my legs did the Rum-ba. It does not take much to knock me off my feet. I am a cheap lush. Two sips of red Wine and I am in lala-land. The Hospitals ask patients to not come to the ER unless they are very sick. Too many infectious folks hanging out there. They say to take Tylenol, lots of fluids and rest. We went to a Christmas Party Thursday and lots of sneezing there. I think I brought it home from there.


Keep up the rum, and if you run out there's always hot tea with honey and lemon, my mother's cure. Not as much fun as hot buttered rum, but what can you expect from a mother?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I think the story is that a truck transporting them to a pet shop had an accident, and a few got free and went on their merry way, then became fruitful and multiplied. There are plenty of parklike spaces in Brooklyn, and that's where they hang out.
> 
> Wow, it turns out there are a lot of websites about these guys;
> http://www.wildparrotsny.com/index/history.html looks like a major one. Pictures and all. There are even organized trips to search for them.


I'll be darned. Do you ever see them?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> She is best at mathematics, and also turning into quite an artist. She loved being allowed to do it all by herself today. I am still not feeling l00% so I told her I couldn't help her. She thought that was wonderful as" her parents weren't very good at it but they were taller than she is and so that didn't help any!" She is brutally honest. I am sure she also told them that she felt they 'ganging up on her and it isn't fair as two against one is hard to deal with, especially as they are bigger"
> 
> We could hardly keep our laughter from showing. She knows that only if it is something we know they should know that she can say pretty well anything as long as she told us confidentially and she knows she can say what she feels. That is the first time I have ever heard her criticize Dad and Mom, as Mom is still flying a lot to Europe and Dad is retired and a 'stay at home Dad." Mom loves to fly and he told her he would get another job if she wanted time off she said NO!
> 
> ...


You seem to have a wonderful relationship with your granddaughter. That doesn't surprise me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'll be darned. Do you ever see them?


No. When I worked in Brooklyn and had a car, I didn't know about them. Now I'm strictly in Manhattan and have no car, but I'll look into one of their guided trips. And I'll take pictures.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She sounds like a wonderful little girl. It looks like she has inherited her grandmother's talents!


If someone had ever introduced me to crafts and making things I would not have felt to unhappy. I think if you show children how much fun it is to do things they become very talented. She learned to knit at four -- she looked at my dress sweater (turquoise) and tried to pick out from the patterns what each pattern consisted of. She got all the knit stitches and purl stitches. She did very well.

She is the reason we moved. I think it is important for children to have loving grandparents. They fill a different need than parents I think.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> If someone had ever introduced me to crafts and making things I would not have felt to unhappy. I think if you show children how much fun it is to do things they become very talented. She learned to knit at four -- she looked at my dress sweater (turquoise) and tried to pick out from the patterns what each pattern consisted of. She got all the knit stitches and purl stitches. She did very well.
> 
> She is the reason we moved. I think it is important for children to have loving grandparents. They fill a different need than parents I think.


I agree, Shirley. We were making plans to move out west when Brynn came along. Now that she is here, I couldn't imagine being far away from her. She is the reason we stayed!
We provide the patience, silliness, shoulders, and are the best secret keepers. We can teach them . I never knew my grandfathers. They both died before I was born, but my grandmothers left such a great impression in my life.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am taking a break from gift wrapping. I just realized that it has been over 30 years since I have had to wrap vinyl record albums! My son has quite a collection and mentioned 2 that he would like. Barnes and Noble had them. It just brought me back......to the very last one I gave as a gift. It was
> Steely Dan's' Aja' album back in 77.


One of my all time favourite bands along with Supertramp at around that time. Reminds me of the first vinyl album I was given which was Elton John's 'Don't shoot me I'm the piano player,' and the first vinyl album I bought which was Linda Ronstadt's 'Heart Like a Wheel.' They were the days!

My son has a huge collection of vinyl as well and his mates gave him a new turn-table for his birthday in August. It's on most of the time which really takes me back and if it's not, he's playing his guitar. He knows all the oldies so all I have to do is screech out "play me Stairway to Heaven" for example and off he goes. Just wonderful!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Only sometimes? It's important to certain men that they keep their wives and children away from the rest of the world, where they might see very different relationships. And especially the wives - at least that seems to be true in abusive relationships, and I have no doubt that a lot, if not most, of the men in the homeschooling movement are abusive in some way.


Of course, the moms are adults and probably pretty good at thinking their way out of paper bags. Distract 'em one way or another seems to be the theme.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Some helpful reading for you and Purl.


Thanks!! As far as I know, every other flour besides wheat is low in gluten so some wheat flour has to be included in any bread recipe featuring another flour. I like using whole wheat pastry flour which is very fine. I wonder if using essential wheat gluten would mean putting a lot less wheat flour with another flour? I'm very fond of using corn to make yeast-risen corn bread. This is really wonderful if you put some sharp cheddar cheese in it. And toasting and slathering it with butter? Divine!!

Maybe this discussion belongs on NB, but wherever it is, it's chock full of goodness.

A long, long time ago when dinosaurs walked the earth, I used to make my own yogurt, cottage cheese and a spread using mashed cottage cheese plus some herbs and spices that made a dandy replacement for cream cheese.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks!! As far as I know, every other flour besides wheat is low in gluten so some wheat flour has to be included in any bread recipe featuring another flour. I like using whole wheat pastry flour which is very fine. I wonder if using essential wheat gluten would mean putting a lot less wheat flour with another flour? I'm very fond of using corn to make yeast-risen corn bread. This is really wonderful if you put some sharp cheddar cheese in it. And toasting and slathering it with butter? Divine!!
> 
> Maybe this discussion belongs on NB, but wherever it is, it's chock full of goodness.
> 
> A long, long time ago when dinosaurs walked the earth, I used to make my own yogurt, cottage cheese and a spread using mashed cottage cheese plus some herbs and spices that made a dandy replacement for cream cheese.


You are correct - wheat flour is needed for bread baking. I've never tried increasing the gluten/reducing wheat flour but I suppose it is possible. Worth a try, right?

I've never made yeast-risen corn bread but it sounds wonderful. Recipe?

I've never tried making yogurt or other milk products, either, but we still make all of our own sausage; chorizo, Italian, breakfast, kielbasa (hubby smokes it in the smoker). The freezer is bulging at the seams right now because we give a lot of it to the family as gifts, along with pulled pork and smoked ribs and smoked cheese.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> You are correct - wheat flour is needed for bread baking. I've never tried increasing the gluten/reducing wheat flour but I suppose it is possible. Worth a try, right?
> 
> I've never made yeast-risen corn bread but it sounds wonderful. Recipe?
> 
> I've never tried making yogurt or other milk products, either, but we still make all of our own sausage; chorizo, Italian, breakfast, kielbasa (hubby smokes it in the smoker). The freezer is bulging at the seams right now because we give a lot of it to the family as gifts, along with pulled pork and smoked ribs and smoked cheese.


A friend of mine has a smoker... Now you've got me thinking about yet another thing to make. For yeast-risen corn bread I use a reliable wheat bread recipe and use half wheat and half corn. That's what I do with any flour other than making all-wheat bread. For the corn bread please note, I use corn flour, not corn meal.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lucky you.



Wombatnomore said:


> One of my all time favourite bands along with Supertramp at around that time. Reminds me of the first vinyl album I was given which was Elton John's 'Don't shoot me I'm the piano player,' and the first vinyl album I bought which was Linda Ronstadt's 'Heart Like a Wheel.' They were the days!
> 
> My son has a huge collection of vinyl as well and his mates gave him a new turn-table for his birthday in August. It's on most of the time which really takes me back and if it's not, he's playing his guitar. He knows all the oldies so all I have to do is screech out "play me Stairway to Heaven" for example and off he goes. Just wonderful!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You have to quit tempting me. I will be glad to buy a cookbook from you.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks!! As far as I know, every other flour besides wheat is low in gluten so some wheat flour has to be included in any bread recipe featuring another flour. I like using whole wheat pastry flour which is very fine. I wonder if using essential wheat gluten would mean putting a lot less wheat flour with another flour? I'm very fond of using corn to make yeast-risen corn bread. This is really wonderful if you put some sharp cheddar cheese in it. And toasting and slathering it with butter? Divine!!
> 
> Maybe this discussion belongs on NB, but wherever it is, it's chock full of goodness.
> 
> A long, long time ago when dinosaurs walked the earth, I used to make my own yogurt, cottage cheese and a spread using mashed cottage cheese plus some herbs and spices that made a dandy replacement for cream cheese.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> You have to quit tempting me. I will be glad to buy a cookbook from you.


We could write one!

The Ladies of the Liberal Left Cookbook and Political Primer


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That looks delicious. I think it would go well over a nice round of baked Brie.


BrattyPatty
Baked Brie with wine syrup, now that is a French delicacy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

YES! No store-bought cream cheese for us. Point me in the right direction. I do anything but organize.



DGreen said:


> We could write one!
> 
> The Ladies of the Liberal Left Cookbook and Political Primer


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Keep up the rum, and if you run out there's always hot tea with honey and lemon, my mother's cure. Not as much fun as hot buttered rum, but what can you expect from a mother?


Poor Purl
Honey is something we are never without and the hot buttered Rum gets a little bit of that as well. Tea, Lemon and Honey is always our cough medicine. For now I stick with the Rum. Feeling pretty good already. I just do not adhere too much to the rest thing. I do better when I keep moving.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I'll be darned. Do you ever see them?


DGreen
let us hope that they can handle the Winter. For a couple of years we had a Canary coming with the Flock of Sparrows. A lovely sight.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your avatar has a lot of movement too. You are a whirling dervish.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Honey is something we are never without and the hot buttered Rum gets a little bit of that as well. Tea, Lemon and Honey is always our cough medicine. For now I stick with the Rum. Feeling pretty good already. I just do not adhere too much to the rest thing. I do better when I keep moving.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> You are correct - wheat flour is needed for bread baking. I've never tried increasing the gluten/reducing wheat flour but I suppose it is possible. Worth a try, right?
> 
> I've never made yeast-risen corn bread but it sounds wonderful. Recipe?
> 
> I've never tried making yogurt or other milk products, either, but we still make all of our own sausage; chorizo, Italian, breakfast, kielbasa (hubby smokes it in the smoker). The freezer is bulging at the seams right now because we give a lot of it to the family as gifts, along with pulled pork and smoked ribs and smoked cheese.


DGreen
home-made sausage - and smoked, now that is gourmet. We use the smoker a lot - I want to smoke me a trout. The store charges $ 10.00 for just one. At that price it does not taste so good.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Your avatar has a lot of movement too. You are a whirling dervish.


damemary
don't want to grow fuzz on my backside. I am trying to keep up with you. A lovely sight yours is again.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> You have to quit tempting me. I will be glad to buy a cookbook from you.


But a part of my existence is to tempt people to enjoy good things. If I wrote a cookbook it would all be recipes that say take a pinch of this, add a bit of that...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am taking a break from gift wrapping. I just realized that it has been over 30 years since I have had to wrap vinyl record albums! My son has quite a collection and mentioned 2 that he would like. Barnes and Noble had them. It just brought me back......to the very last one I gave as a gift. It was
> Steely Dan's' Aja' album back in 77.


You have just opened the way for another long, boring name-drop from me. One of my son's classmates from nursery school through junior high has played with Steely Dan since the mid-90s - Michael Leonhart. His entire family is musical; I barely knew the kids (sister Carolyn is a singer and has worked with Steely Dan, too).

Their mother (who was a singer) is someone I love dearly, and she's also one of the most beautiful women I've ever met. Additionally, the last time I ran into her she was teaching knitting at a nearby senior center.

Their father is Jay Leonhart, a well-know jazz bassist who has written some funny songs that only people my age would get the humor of, including one about learning that his wife had seen the Dodgers play in Brooklyn, another about being seated on a long flight next to Leonard Bernstein, plus others, but I'm getting tedious.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> We could write one!
> 
> The Ladies of the Liberal Left Cookbook and Political Primer


Will you omit the cream cheese? That seems to be a right-wing foodstuff.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> YES! No store-bought cream cheese for us. Point me in the right direction. I do anything but organize.


You read my mind. Maid's recipe is what we need.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You have just opened the way for another long, boring name-drop from me. One of my son's classmates from nursery school through junior high has played with Steely Dan since the mid-90s - Michael Leonhart. His entire family is musical; I barely knew the kids (sister Carolyn is a singer and has worked with Steely Dan, too).
> 
> Their mother (who was a singer) is someone I love dearly, and she's also one of the most beautiful women I've ever met. Additionally, the last time I ran into her she was teaching knitting at a nearby senior center.
> 
> Their father is Jay Leonhart, a well-know jazz bassist who has written some funny songs that only people my age would get the humor of, including one about learning that his wife had seen the Dodgers play in Brooklyn, another about being seated on a long flight next to Leonard Bernstein, plus others, but I'm getting tedious.


I can see now why Michael was so talented. They always had a nice jazz touch in their songs. Donald Fagan is still going strong.
He formed a trio called "the Dukes of September" featuring him, Boz Scaggs, and Michael McDonald (Doobie Bros). They sound great together.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I thought this was the season of peace on earth and good will to men. I don't see it coming from the Queen of Hatred, who, as you point out, will always slap the liberal's hand, no matter what is said. It must be hard to be only _against_ things, never _for_ anything.


Too bad the hand that is being offered is empty. It's the one hiding behind the back that has to be watched out for. One thing that comes across loud and clear when interacting with your group, is keep an eye on the other hand - it never fails to strike.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Too bad the hand that is being offered is empty. It's the one hiding behind the back that has to be watched out for. One thing that comes across loud and clear when interacting with your group, is keep an eye on the other hand - it never fails to strike.


Some in your group can be described the same way. You just can't help yourself can you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> let us hope that they can handle the Winter. For a couple of years we had a Canary coming with the Flock of Sparrows. A lovely sight.


They've been living in the wild since the 1960s and seem to have survived the Brooklyn winters.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Your avatar has a lot of movement too. You are a whirling dervish.


Avatars here have been changing at the speed of light. I can't keep up with them any more.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Will you omit the cream cheese? That seems to be a right-wing foodstuff.


The Ladies of the Liberal Left Trans Fat and Cream Cheese Free Cookbook and Political Primer


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Too bad the hand that is being offered is empty. It's the one hiding behind the back that has to be watched out for. One thing that comes across loud and clear when interacting with your group, is keep an eye on the other hand - it never fails to strike.


Poor crybaby. You're always so nice, and the mean girls keep coming after you wanting to slap your face. 

You are incapable of seeing your own contribution. If you ask for a slap, we'll happily give you one; if you don't want to be hit, don't start fights.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Too bad the hand that is being offered is empty. It's the one hiding behind the back that has to be watched out for. One thing that comes across loud and clear when interacting with your group, is keep an eye on the other hand - it never fails to strike.


TROLL ALERT!!!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Some in your group can be described the same way. You just can't help yourself can you?


I don't think she even notices what she does. She doesn't mind the torture of others, but if you repeat her words back to her, she cries Abuse!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Some in your group can be described the same way. You just can't help yourself can you?


Just telling the truth. You are one of the first ones I noticed that made these "offerings".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just telling the truth. You are one of the first ones I noticed that made these "offerings".


The truth as you see it. That's not the same thing as the actual truth.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just telling the truth. You are one of the first ones I noticed that made these "offerings".


What "offering" are you referring to?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think she even notices what she does. She doesn't mind the torture of others, but if you repeat her words back to her, she cries Abuse!


True, I don't mind the torture of terrorists that are bent on killing us. You, Huckleberry and others, on the other, hand don't seem to mind the torture of mentally ill people. You really are a pitiful lot.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What "offering" are you referring to?


Hmmm??


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Merry Little Christmas by Judy Garland

Putting all the angry aside.

My you all have a very Merry Christmas, and a happy health New Year.

As in the words of Tin Tim : God Bless us Everyone

Susan I know you are probably not reading this but want you to know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
I know how hard it is to lose someone you love. God bless you and your family in your time of morning


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> True, I don't mind the torture of terrorists that are bent on killing us. You, Huckleberry and others, on the other, hand don't seem to mind the torture of mentally ill people. You really are a pitiful lot.


You apparently don't mind the torture of any Arab, terrorist or not, since many of the tortured were not guilty of any crime, let alone terrorism.

On the other hand, we were playing around with what we said; it's not as though the Australian government is asking for our advice, and I suspect that if you asked us today, we'd have a totally different view of the mother. But your desire to torture those Arabs is the same as it was way back.

My advice to you: stuff your head in a toilet to see whether it's torture.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> True, I don't mind the torture of terrorists that are bent on killing us. You, Huckleberry and others, on the other, hand don't seem to mind the torture of mentally ill people. You really are a pitiful lot.


By mentally ill people, do you mean that Huckle and others are torturing your crowd? That is what is implied by this and earlier posts. Clarify please.

Also I have yet to wish you Happy Hanukkah and Merry New Year. Happy and Merry.

Thanks Yarnie and blessings on your head.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxxTHzERTsk
> 
> Merry Little Christmas by Judy Garland
> 
> ...


Thank you for the song, yarnie, and I'm sure Susan will be grateful for your prayers.

A very Merry Christmas, to you and all your family.

And here's another version of the song:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's how I cook. I can't stand levelling 1/4 teaspoons of herbs. TO TASTE is my motto. I only measure for baking.



MaidInBedlam said:


> But a part of my existence is to tempt people to enjoy good things. If I wrote a cookbook it would all be recipes that say take a pinch of this, add a bit of that...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love these stories. Benefits from living in NYC.



Poor Purl said:


> You have just opened the way for another long, boring name-drop from me. One of my son's classmates from nursery school through junior high has played with Steely Dan since the mid-90s - Michael Leonhart. His entire family is musical; I barely knew the kids (sister Carolyn is a singer and has worked with Steely Dan, too).
> 
> Their mother (who was a singer) is someone I love dearly, and she's also one of the most beautiful women I've ever met. Additionally, the last time I ran into her she was teaching knitting at a nearby senior center.
> 
> Their father is Jay Leonhart, a well-know jazz bassist who has written some funny songs that only people my age would get the humor of, including one about learning that his wife had seen the Dodgers play in Brooklyn, another about being seated on a long flight next to Leonard Bernstein, plus others, but I'm getting tedious.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We'll need a big book for the title to fit.



DGreen said:


> The Ladies of the Liberal Left Trans Fat and Cream Cheese Free Cookbook and Political Primer


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> That's how I cook. I can't stand levelling 1/4 teaspoons of herbs. TO TASTE is my motto. I only measure for baking.


I'm with you ladies - to taste for most things, but precise measurements for baking.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Her bait doesn't tempt me a bit.



DGreen said:


> TROLL ALERT!!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why I don't hear it any more. Ignore and skip.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't think she even notices what she does. She doesn't mind the torture of others, but if you repeat her words back to her, she cries Abuse!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The Ladies of the Liberal Left Trans Fat and Cream Cheese Free Cookbook and Political Primer


Foods and thoughts to enjoy by the Liberated Ladies of the Left.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Evem - what in tarnation (what is a tarnation?) are those animals in your latest avatar?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You have just opened the way for another long, boring name-drop from me. One of my son's classmates from nursery school through junior high has played with Steely Dan since the mid-90s - Michael Leonhart. His entire family is musical; I barely knew the kids (sister Carolyn is a singer and has worked with Steely Dan, too).
> 
> Their mother (who was a singer) is someone I love dearly, and she's also one of the most beautiful women I've ever met. Additionally, the last time I ran into her she was teaching knitting at a nearby senior center.
> 
> Their father is Jay Leonhart, a well-know jazz bassist who has written some funny songs that only people my age would get the humor of, including one about learning that his wife had seen the Dodgers play in Brooklyn, another about being seated on a long flight next to Leonard Bernstein, plus others, but I'm getting tedious.


Poor Purl
keep on posting, very interesting.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> True, I don't mind the torture of terrorists that are bent on killing us. You, Huckleberry and others, on the other, hand don't seem to mind the torture of mentally ill people. You really are a pitiful lot.


soloweygirl
we support treatment for the mentally ill but ask for real punishment for those who claim to be deficient so that they can escape punishment. Perhaps the difference escapes you. As to what we are, we are a jolly bunch of liberal thinkers. Humanity is our core. Now please go and join your buddies, you are disturbing our jovial get-together.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> That's how I cook. I can't stand levelling 1/4 teaspoons of herbs. TO TASTE is my motto. I only measure for baking.


Baking is chemistry. Of course you must measure. :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I love these stories. Benefits from living in NYC.


I guess so. Geez, there ought to be some benefits, especially since there are no hummingbirds.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > True, I don't mind the torture of terrorists that are bent on killing us. You, Huckleberry and others, on the other, hand don't seem to mind the torture of mentally ill people. You really are a pitiful lot.
> ...


Huck, who would know more about being pitiful than soloweygirl?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid the little bombers get feisty and try to bite the hand that feeds then. A riot though.



Poor Purl said:


> I guess so. Geez, there ought to be some benefits, especially since there are no hummingbirds.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I'm with you ladies - to taste for most things, but precise measurements for baking.


DGreen
cooking by taste as you do and baking I learned the hard way. Measure, weigh and follow instructions or your Streusel winds up on the bottom instead of on the top. Tastes the same but lacks in appearance. Too much Butter sends the Streusel on a deep diving mission. Initially I thought that the Dog somehow took care of the Streusel. Not so. It turned out to be an upside down Streusel which I cut crossways through the middle and filled it with Whipped Cream. What are a few more Calories. If you sin, go all the way. Baking some cookies however I go by - sounds right, looks right, feels right and usually turns out right.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, who would know more about being pitiful than soloweygirl?


Poor Purl
may we vote for a Medal for her regarding this? She no doubt will top her buddies. Interesting how some folks turn out in Life, isn't it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm afraid the little bombers get feisty and try to bite the hand that feeds then. A riot though.


I think one of them once proposed to me. At least he did that funny see-saw dance in front of me, and I didn't see any lady hummingbird nearby.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> may we vote for a Medal for her regarding this? She no doubt will top her buddies. Interesting how some folks turn out in Life, isn't it.


What would you put on such a medal? The truth is that one of the reasons she's pitiful is that she's not a winner, even of that kind of medal.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What would you put on such a medal? The truth is that one of the reasons she's pitiful is that she's not a winner, even of that kind of medal.


Poor Purl
you got me there. How sad losing all around all the time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think one of them once proposed to me. At least he did that funny see-saw dance in front of me, and I didn't see any lady hummingbird nearby.


Poor Purl
I have a top with roses and several times while sitting on the Terrace, a Hummingbird landed on my shoulder trying to suck on the Flowers. My present day friend is a Rabbit, I swear it listens to me when I address it. It never runs away even when I get very close to it. It is a lonely single little creature. I think our Owl has taken its companion.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think one of them once proposed to me. At least he did that funny see-saw dance in front of me, and I didn't see any lady hummingbird nearby.


Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


It's nice to see you, Cookie! Happy Holidays to you!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


Funny but not funny.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


cookiequeen
Bluejays are VERY nasty generally but when they have young they become rather dangerous. They turn into Kamakasi Pilots. They used to fly into our Dogs coming from behind and scare the dickens out of them. We had to rescue the Neighbor's Cat from them many times. I would go out with an open Umbrella to stay safe. It seems that every specie has its outcasts.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> Bluejays are VERY nasty generally but when they have young they become rather dangerous. They turn into Kamakasi Pilots. They used to fly into our Dogs coming from behind and scare the dickens out of them.


The bluejays sound brave.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's nice to see you, Cookie! Happy Holidays to you!


Thanks, Bratty. I'm sorry I missed your birthday, but I hope you had a good one. In fact, knowing you, I'm SURE you had a wonderful celebration.
Happy holidays, to you, too.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> The bluejays sound brave.


They used to dive bomb one of my old dogs. Now that we have two, they aren't quite as bold.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
I happen to love cream cheese.
I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
> I happen to love cream cheese.
> I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


Devastating News.

Saturday, I had French toast with sweet cream cheese and blueberries. Delicious.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> Bluejays are VERY nasty generally but when they have young they become rather dangerous. They turn into Kamakasi Pilots. They used to fly into our Dogs coming from behind and scare the dickens out of them. We had to rescue the Neighbor's Cat from them many times. I would go out with an open Umbrella to stay safe. It seems that every specie has its outcasts.


Mockingbirds, too. I've had my head cut by a divebombing mockingbird that attacked the top of my head.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
> I happen to love cream cheese.
> I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


Promise not to post any cream cheese recipes and I'll forgive you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
> I happen to love cream cheese.
> I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


cookiequeen
I too love cream cheese beaten with whipping cream and fresh Lemon Juice and served with Mandarin oranges. Hmmm good. Oh my goodness, DGreen will chase me to elsewhere.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> I too love cream cheese beaten with whipping cream and fresh Lemon Juice and served with Mandarin oranges. Hmmm good. Oh my goodness, DGreen will chase me to elsewhere.


Sounds yummy! We'll be banished together, Huck.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Evem - what in tarnation (what is a tarnation?) are those animals in your latest avatar?


I have not idea, it is a picture that was posted by a KPer in Turkey, but they are adorable.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I have a top with roses and several times while sitting on the Terrace, a Hummingbird landed on my shoulder trying to suck on the Flowers. My present day friend is a Rabbit, I swear it listens to me when I address it. It never runs away even when I get very close to it. It is a lonely single little creature. I think our Owl has taken its companion.


Those hummers love red. Poor thing, sucking away at fabric flowers. Do you feed the rabbit? He must have adopted you for a reason. I hate to think rabbit-partner was eaten by an owl, but I guess that's another instance of "nature, red in tooth and claw" (Tennyson).

Come to think of it, DH and I were once sitting on a park bench, and he was wearing dungarees (blue jeans for the youngsters) and a blue chambray shirt. A butterfly flew over and plastered itself onto his shirt pocket, and when he brushed it away, it got onto his pants and didn't leave for a long time. Must have been attracted to light blue.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Baking is chemistry. Of course you must measure. :thumbup:


Don't want to blow up the oven, again :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


That's funny. Not for your son, of course.

A few years back, while walking down the street, I saw an iguana sitting on a ledge outside a 6th floor window. It's owners, or whoever lived in the apartment that came with the window, was trying to coax it back inside, but it wouldn't move. I left after a couple of minutes, but by then a crowd of at least a dozen had gathered to watch. I never learned the end of the story.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Baking is chemistry. Of course you must measure. :thumbup:


Only if you have the correct measuring implements.

Flour is measured by the handful 
salt is measured by the smidgen
rum, brandy, wine is measured by the snort
nuts and mixed fruit is measured by the toss
sugar is measured by the dash
liquid is measured by the just enough 
flavouring essences are measured by the half a drop

I know, I learnt all this from my aunty who was an excellent cook, her blow away sponge cakes were exactly that.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What would you put on such a medal? The truth is that one of the reasons she's pitiful is that she's not a winner, even of that kind of medal.


What kind of medal? We used to say 'give that man a cardboard medal' or 'give that person a tin medal'. I am not sure which is the higher, tin or cardboard .

What to inscribe on such a medal? 'For services above and beyond what others can countenance'.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> Bluejays are VERY nasty generally but when they have young they become rather dangerous. They turn into Kamakasi Pilots. They used to fly into our Dogs coming from behind and scare the dickens out of them. We had to rescue the Neighbor's Cat from them many times. I would go out with an open Umbrella to stay safe. It seems that every specie has its outcasts.


Have you ever encountered our magpies during nesting season? They have taken an eye out.

We issue magpie warnings every year.

http://www.wikihow.com/Keep-Safe-from-Swooping-Australian-Magpies

The following are genuine photographs, not staged photographs, and our maggies are not little birds.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
> I happen to love cream cheese.
> I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


We are very accepting people. We are understanding about your foibles. No banishment; just don't post recipes using it.

Or if you do, make them interesting.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

never saw a real magpie. They seem to make the old cartoons tho. They seem tough.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Sounds yummy! We'll be banished together, Huck.


cookiequeen
and enjoy cream cheese at whatever location.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We are very accepting people. We are understanding about your foibles. No banishment; just don't post recipes using it.
> 
> Or if you do, make them interesting.


Poor Purl
now you know one of our faults and we wanted you to believe that we had none.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Only if you have the correct measuring implements.
> 
> Flour is measured by the handful
> salt is measured by the smidgen
> ...


EveMCooke
I absolutely love this kind of instructions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I only ask myself if it tastes good. The rest is plating presentation. Fresh herbs or raspberry sauce have been known to save the day.



Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> cooking by taste as you do and baking I learned the hard way. Measure, weigh and follow instructions or your Streusel winds up on the bottom instead of on the top. Tastes the same but lacks in appearance. Too much Butter sends the Streusel on a deep diving mission. Initially I thought that the Dog somehow took care of the Streusel. Not so. It turned out to be an upside down Streusel which I cut crossways through the middle and filled it with Whipped Cream. What are a few more Calories. If you sin, go all the way. Baking some cookies however I go by - sounds right, looks right, feels right and usually turns out right.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've seen it then. They engage in dog-fights to protect their territory. The boy/girl thing is something else.

Right now I have 2 pigeons eating out of my hand.



Poor Purl said:


> I think one of them once proposed to me. At least he did that funny see-saw dance in front of me, and I didn't see any lady hummingbird nearby.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet your bunny would like some left-over fresh veggies. Sounds like Disneyland in your yard.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I have a top with roses and several times while sitting on the Terrace, a Hummingbird landed on my shoulder trying to suck on the Flowers. My present day friend is a Rabbit, I swear it listens to me when I address it. It never runs away even when I get very close to it. It is a lonely single little creature. I think our Owl has taken its companion.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought a squirrel looked thirsty and I gave him a few drops of water. Unfortunately it dropped on my toe....which just had a manicure....and must have looked like a ripe berry...so he bit me! Ungrateful little devil.

The word out here about snakebites....victim usually male, tatooed, and high on something.



cookiequeen said:


> Be glad it was a little bird. My son once got a bite on his earlobe because he didn't know what the new behavior of his iguana was and tried to imitate it. Found out about iguana's mating behavior too late.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Secretly, I like it too. D&P has just given it a bad name. Now you have it. Someone is making a screen print as we speak. We can handle it.



cookiequeen said:


> Today has been my day for true confessions. Here comes another one:
> I happen to love cream cheese.
> I suppose I'm now banished to that other thread.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

From this day forth, cream cheese recipes may be PM-ed and enjoyed, as is our CookieQueen forever and ever. damemary



DGreen said:


> Promise not to post any cream cheese recipes and I'll forgive you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Looks rather like our prairie dogs in USA west.



EveMCooke said:


> I have not idea, it is a picture that was posted by a KPer in Turkey, but they are adorable.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Find a butterfly park and go. Great for kids, even better for adults. They raise thousands of different varieties of butterfly and plant all the right flowers. They have to brush them off when you can force yourself to leave...if you're like me.



Poor Purl said:


> Those hummers love red. Poor thing, sucking away at fabric flowers. Do you feed the rabbit? He must have adopted you for a reason. I hate to think rabbit-partner was eaten by an owl, but I guess that's another instance of "nature, red in tooth and claw" (Tennyson).
> 
> Come to think of it, DH and I were once sitting on a park bench, and he was wearing dungarees (blue jeans for the youngsters) and a blue chambray shirt. A butterfly flew over and plastered itself onto his shirt pocket, and when he brushed it away, it got onto his pants and didn't leave for a long time. Must have been attracted to light blue.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Only if you have the correct measuring implements.
> 
> Flour is measured by the handful
> salt is measured by the smidgen
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Go Auntie. It's a gift for special cooks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've heard a Purple Heart called a Target Medal by one who was awarded one.



EveMCooke said:


> What kind of medal? We used to say 'give that man a cardboard medal' or 'give that person a tin medal'. I am not sure which is the higher, tin or cardboard .
> 
> What to inscribe on such a medal? 'For services above and beyond what others can countenance'.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I bet your bunny would like some left-over fresh veggies. Sounds like Disneyland in your yard.


damemary
well, my bunny gets fresh lettuce, carrots and other fresh greens. I want it to remain here. Used to have a "hord" of Raccoons. They came knocking on the Terrace door begging for food. It was a pleasure to see them raise their young. One time we had two sets of parents with 9 young. Lovely to see. They are all gone. I suspect the Owl which is very large and visits every night. The Chipmunks seem to never vanish. My goodness are those critters fast.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Looks rather like our prairie dogs in USA west.


I thought that but I was not sure.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Only if you have the correct measuring implements.
> 
> Flour is measured by the handful
> salt is measured by the smidgen
> ...


May I hazard a guess that you've had a snort or two recently?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> What kind of medal? We used to say 'give that man a cardboard medal' or 'give that person a tin medal'. I am not sure which is the higher, tin or cardboard .
> 
> What to inscribe on such a medal? 'For services above and beyond what others can countenance'.


You're in a good mood today, aren't you? I'm willing to bet you're still working on "just enough" liquid.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> now you know one of our faults and we wanted you to believe that we had none.


It's not nice to fool Mother Nature.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> You've seen it then. They engage in dog-fights to protect their territory. The boy/girl thing is something else.
> 
> Right now I have 2 pigeons eating out of my hand.


A couple of summers ago, one hummer decided that the feeder at the kitchen door belonged to him. For two or three days, he would stand on the wire fence that was supposed to protect our tomatoes. He would look as if he hadn't a care in the world, but every minute or two he would sneak a peek at the feeder. If anyone else was feeding, he'd zoom over and hit them with his head. Then one day I didn't see him (he had the reddest throat, so it was easy to recognize him), but as soon as another came to feed, down he swooped from the top of a tree, which he must have figured out was a better lookout.

I felt bad for him because while his friends were helicoptering around, he was stuck in one spot keeping his eye on the feeder. I tried to tell him there was another one on the other side of the house and that there was an infinite supply of sugar water anyway, but he insisted on hanging around. It was getting close to summer's end, and I was afraid he'd miss the flight to Mexico if he continued to watch the feeder. But I think he got bored with the whole turf-guarding thing, because by the end of the week he was back with the bunch, bumping heads and flirting with the girls.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> May I hazard a guess that you've had a snort or two recently?


No, sorry but I have not had any alcohol for over a week, then it was only a warm milk with a tot of Chivas Regal before I went to bed. Do not drink alcohol regularly,sometime go months without any. I bought a good bottle of wine about three months ago and forgot all about it . I discovered it unopened in the cupboard last week. I might put it in the fridge to have a drink to celebrate New Year, if I can remember.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're in a good mood today, aren't you? I'm willing to bet you're still working on "just enough" liquid.


Sorry to disillusion you but I do not drink alcohol every week, let alone every day. I am upset that you think that I am drunk or constantly drinking alcohol. My father and two of my brothers were alcoholics and whilst I am not a wowser I do not need to drink alcohol. My sister 's in laws had a vineyard and made their own wines, which they sold from the vineyard and through liquor outlets, they were a well known West Australian brand. They even opened a wine shop in London in the 1970s. When I went to visit her I was always asked if I wanted a glass of wine and if I wanted a bottle to take home. More times than not I would say no to both questions.

No, I am not a drunk, thanks, I am not " still working on "just enough" liquid."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> No, sorry but I have not had any alcohol for over a week, then it was only a warm milk with a tot of Chivas Regal before I went to bed. Do not drink alcohol regularly,sometime go months without any. I bought a good bottle of wine about three months ago and forgot all about it . I discovered it unopened in the cupboard last week. I might put it in the fridge to have a drink to celebrate New Year, if I can remember.


If you need a reminder....


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If you need a reminder....


I think I will close down for the day because I do not understand your comment above. Are you implying I am stupid or that I am drunk? Thank you.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I think I will close down for the day because I do not understand your comment above. Are you implying I am stupid or that I am drunk? Thank you.


Don't get upset Evem. Those animals are throwing us off. While it is a tender scene, the animals are darn ugly. They need some clothes.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Don't get upset Evem. Those animals are throwing us off. While it is a tender scene, the animals are darn ugly. They need some clothes.


There you are, happy now? My 'darned ugly animals' have been removed so they will not offend your delicate eyes any more. Animals do not wear clothes.


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## Farmwoman (Jul 2, 2014)

aw9358 The pictures that REMAIN IMBEDDED IN MY BRAIN ARE THOSE OF AMERICAN, AND good men of OTHER NATIONALITIES, HAVING THEIR HEADS CUT OFF IN PUBLIC. FILMED, SO THE cowardly ANIMALS CAN GLOAT, AND CELEBRATE THEIR DEPRAVITY, to SHOW THE WORLD JUST HOW LOW THEY ARE ON THE FOOD CHAIN! They want to ANNILATE anyone who is an infidel, (Anyone not as zealous as they are, in their twisted Muslim beliefs!) This is not an issue of propriety now. IT IS WAR against a bunch of mentally deranged people who HATE, and want to DESTROY us! It's not a tea party ladies, and no where near resolved, if it ever will be! Our security as Americans no longer exists, nor around the world! 
MERRY CHRISTMAS! HAPPY NEW YEAR! I hope! : (


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I think I will close down for the day because I do not understand your comment above. Are you implying I am stupid or that I am drunk? Thank you.


Neither. I'm just offering my help in getting you drunk.

I don't drink all that much myself, but I'm always ready to help others. Besides you already forgot that bottle of wine once; you may forget it again between now and New Year's Eve.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry to disillusion you but I do not drink alcohol every week, let alone every day. I am upset that you think that I am drunk or constantly drinking alcohol. My father and two of my brothers were alcoholics and whilst I am not a wowser I do not need to drink alcohol. My sister 's in laws had a vineyard and made their own wines, which they sold from the vineyard and through liquor outlets, they were a well known West Australian brand. They even opened a wine shop in London in the 1970s. When I went to visit her I was always asked if I wanted a glass of wine and if I wanted a bottle to take home. More times than not I would say no to both questions.
> 
> No, I am not a drunk, thanks, I am not " still working on "just enough" liquid."


I'm sorry; I was just being silly. You had two posts back to back that were funny, and since one of them contained that list of measures, I thought it would be funny to use them. I don't at all think of you as a drunk. The drunks I know (and I don't know many) wouldn't be sitting at a computer carrying on a conversation with a bunch of others.

Please accept my apology. I'm truly sorry that I hurt your feelings or touched a real sore spot.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> There you are, happy now? My 'darned ugly animals' have been removed so they will not offend your delicate eyes any more. Animals do not wear clothes.


Your animals were so sweet. I love pictures of mother animals kissing their young. And I couldn't care less whether they were dressed or naked. Please bring them back.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> There you are, happy now? My 'darned ugly animals' have been removed so they will not offend your delicate eyes any more. Animals do not wear clothes.


Animals do wear clothes. Mrs. Somma's cat is a good example. So now you are the plain Evem without an avatar! Now that is no fun for us. Please put back those "animals". I realized during my sleep they are ETs. I miss them and anyway I was just joking.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Farmwoman said:


> aw9358 The pictures that REMAIN IMBEDDED IN MY BRAIN ARE THOSE OF AMERICAN, AND good men of OTHER NATIONALITIES, HAVING THEIR HEADS CUT OFF IN PUBLIC. FILMED, SO THE cowardly ANIMALS CAN GLOAT, AND CELEBRATE THEIR DEPRAVITY, to SHOW THE WORLD JUST HOW LOW THEY ARE ON THE FOOD CHAIN! They want to ANNILATE anyone who is an infidel, (Anyone not as zealous as they are, in their twisted Muslim beliefs!) This is not an issue of propriety now. IT IS WAR against a bunch of mentally deranged people who HATE, and want to DESTROY us! It's not a tea party ladies, and no where near resolved, if it ever will be! Our security as Americans no longer exists, nor around the world!
> MERRY CHRISTMAS! HAPPY NEW YEAR! I hope! : (


Go Farm Go! I am for offing anyone who wants to off me but I do remember that most Muslims want the same things that I do and that I reserve my disgust for the Extremists.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Have you ever encountered our magpies during nesting season? They have taken an eye out.
> 
> We issue magpie warnings every year.
> 
> ...


Your magpies sure aren't little !! Those are some very scary pictures!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Animals do wear clothes. Mrs. Somma's cat is a good example. So now you are the plain Evem without an avatar! Now that is no fun for us. Please put back those "animals". I realized during my sleep they are ETs. I miss them and anyway I was just joking.


Joey's cat is a very bad example. Even in winter it looks stuffed into that outfit and not very happy about it. Your old sloth was naked and no one complained about that.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> A couple of summers ago, one hummer decided that the feeder at the kitchen door belonged to him. For two or three days, he would stand on the wire fence that was supposed to protect our tomatoes. He would look as if he hadn't a care in the world, but every minute or two he would sneak a peek at the feeder. If anyone else was feeding, he'd zoom over and hit them with his head. Then one day I didn't see him (he had the reddest throat, so it was easy to recognize him), but as soon as another came to feed, down he swooped from the top of a tree, which he must have figured out was a better lookout.
> 
> I felt bad for him because while his friends were helicoptering around, he was stuck in one spot keeping his eye on the feeder. I tried to tell him there was another one on the other side of the house and that there was an infinite supply of sugar water anyway, but he insisted on hanging around. It was getting close to summer's end, and I was afraid he'd miss the flight to Mexico if he continued to watch the feeder. But I think he got bored with the whole turf-guarding thing, because by the end of the week he was back with the bunch, bumping heads and flirting with the girls.


Poor Purl
what a cute story. Thank you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry to disillusion you but I do not drink alcohol every week, let alone every day. I am upset that you think that I am drunk or constantly drinking alcohol. My father and two of my brothers were alcoholics and whilst I am not a wowser I do not need to drink alcohol. My sister 's in laws had a vineyard and made their own wines, which they sold from the vineyard and through liquor outlets, they were a well known West Australian brand. They even opened a wine shop in London in the 1970s. When I went to visit her I was always asked if I wanted a glass of wine and if I wanted a bottle to take home. More times than not I would say no to both questions.
> 
> No, I am not a drunk, thanks, I am not " still working on "just enough" liquid."


Don't worry about it Eve. It was uncalled for. How are things going with you? I wish you Seasons greetings and a wonderful 2015. Take care, friend!

We have lived close to Blue Jays, and recently magpies. they are much the same - attack other birds (usually robins and chicadees' nests. They are both pretty birds but aren't always nice. Our magpies look smaller than those in the pictures and even though they are bigger than Jays, they are not that pleasant to watch. We lived on an acreage and we were never threatened ourselves but they sure decimated the Robins' nests.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Neither. I'm just offering my help in getting you drunk.
> 
> I don't drink all that much myself, but I'm always ready to help others. Besides you already forgot that bottle of wine once; you may forget it again between now and New Year's Eve.


come on purl- we don't fight or insult our compatriots.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> what a cute story. Thank you.


I was fascinated by that little guy. I'm always fascinated by the things birds do, which take thought and planning and some imagination, even though their brains are the size of raisins.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> come on purl- we don't fight or insult our compatriots.


I just apologized to Eve for coming on the way I did. I didn't mean it as an insult to her, just as a comment on my own silliness. Nor was I fighting.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I won't be on much in the next week. So I'd like to wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas! And to all, Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, and Happy New Year! You've added a lot to my life and I appreciate every one of you!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I won't be on much in the next week. So I'd like to wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas! And to all, Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, and Happy New Year! You've added a lot to my life and I appreciate every one of you!


Same to you, KFN! Enjoy the holidays!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You apparently don't mind the torture of any Arab, terrorist or not, since many of the tortured were not guilty of any crime, let alone terrorism.
> 
> On the other hand, we were playing around with what we said; it's not as though the Australian government is asking for our advice, and I suspect that if you asked us today, we'd have a totally different view of the mother. But your desire to torture those Arabs is the same as it was way back.
> 
> My advice to you: stuff your head in a toilet to see whether it's torture.


Ah yes, now it's playing around. Instead of admitting you would like to have seen that woman tortured, you're denying said thought by calling it something else. What a pitiful group you really are.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Dear People, there are times when anyone of us uses words which may hurt someone unintentionally. Let us view the bigger picture and see if it was just a slip up or meant to be funny or hurtful. Usually the meaning was to be funny. It is so easy to misinterpret statements. Let's err on the good side. What do you say? I am also aware of the fact that were we live influences our expressions. If you reside where there is little elbow room, you become a little feisty so to fit in and your tender spots need a little honing so not to always go into a crying spell. I wish to join hands in Peace. I am sure nothing was meant to be offensive or accusative. I have gotten some unexpected punches and found out eventually that nothing was meant to hurt my feelings. Apology accepted.
May Peace be with us. Huck.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Same to you, KFN! Enjoy the holidays!


Thanks, Patty! I've two hours til my son and his family arrive. So I thought I'd take advantage and sit awhile. Tonight, we're all going to middle son's for dinner. Then I'm doing Christmas Eve, Christmas breakfast and dinner.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Ah yes, now it's playing around. Instead of admitting you would like to have seen that woman tortured, you're denying said thought by calling it something else. What a pitiful group you really are.


Seriously?!? You won't let it go, will you? Just drop it!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Dear People, there are times when anyone of us uses words which may hurt someone unintentionally. Let us view the bigger picture and see if it was just a slip up or meant to be funny or hurtful. Usually the meaning was to be funny. It is so easy to misinterpret statements. Let's err on the good side. What do you say? I am also aware of the fact that were we live influences our expressions. If you reside where there is little elbow room, you become a little feisty so to fit in and your tender spots need a little honing so not to always go into a crying spell. I wish to join hands in Peace. I am sure nothing was meant to be offensive or accusative. I have gotten some unexpected punches and found out eventually that nothing was meant to hurt my feelings. Apology accepted.
> May Peace be with us. Huck.


Oh, Huck! I agree with you! We can't hear when someone has a laughing or teasing tone to their voice. When an offense takes place, it's good to say so, accept the apology and move on. I feel bad when someone else is hurting and I've felt hurt myself. I will gladly join hands with you, in peace. May that peace spread to all! And may love fill our hearts!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Ah yes, now it's playing around. Instead of admitting you would like to have seen that woman tortured, you're denying said thought by calling it something else. What a pitiful group you really are.


soloweygirl
go and make yourself useful somewhere.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ah yes, now it's playing around. Instead of admitting you would like to have seen that woman tortured, you're denying said thought by calling it something else. What a pitiful group you really are.


But in fact that's exactly what it was: playing around until we found just the right sentence for someone who would kill 8 of his/her children. How serious could we have been when we have no say in the actual sentencing?

I know that you people are always serious, at least about cream cheese and kissy-face (for which I take credit), but I rarely am, and I sometimes change my mind in the face of new information, something I've never seen you do.

But the pitiful medal is still yours, as soon as we figure out what to make it out of.

How was the toilet stuffing?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Dear People, there are times when anyone of us uses words which may hurt someone unintentionally. Let us view the bigger picture and see if it was just a slip up or meant to be funny or hurtful. Usually the meaning was to be funny. It is so easy to misinterpret statements. Let's err on the good side. What do you say? I am also aware of the fact that were we live influences our expressions. If you reside where there is little elbow room, you become a little feisty so to fit in and your tender spots need a little honing so not to always go into a crying spell. I wish to join hands in Peace. I am sure nothing was meant to be offensive or accusative. I have gotten some unexpected punches and found out eventually that nothing was meant to hurt my feelings. Apology accepted.
> May Peace be with us. Huck.


Just whom were you referring to with "If you reside where there is little elbow room," hmm? :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Just whom were you referring to with "If you reside where there is little elbow room," hmm? :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ha Ha. The New Yorkers of course!

I think we should call a moratorium until after New Year. No one wants to hear nasty stuff this week.

Good holidays to all - even the Lurkers.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Just whom were you referring to with "If you reside where there is little elbow room," hmm? :?: :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:


PoorPurl
City Folks like me. I had to make many adjustments when moving to where space is at a premium. I thought I was surrounded by the worst behaved people on this planet. Even getting in line to pay my groceries was a challenge. Doing my banking became another trial. In addition I was used to hearing and saying "excuse me" when dancing in front of someone and when doing so in the big City, I was looked at as if I had let one go. The number of moves in my Life taught me a lot, most of all to accept differences and be tolerant. Poor Purl, if I had a beef with you, you would know immediately since I have no problem calling someone on the Carpet. I took your Remarks as poking fun and nothing else.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Let it Snow, let it Snow, let it Snow. Some softness needs to cover us right now.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Let it Snow, let it Snow, let it Snow. Some softness needs to cover us right now.


Agree, Huckle!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> PoorPurl
> City Folks like me. I had to make many adjustments when moving to where space is at a premium. I thought I was surrounded by the worst behaved people on this planet. Even getting in line to pay my groceries was a challenge. Doing my banking became another trial. In addition I was used to hearing and saying "excuse me" when dancing in front of someone and when doing so in the big City, I was looked at as if I had let one go. The number of moves in my Life taught me a lot, most of all to accept differences and be tolerant. Poor Purl, if I had a beef with you, you would know immediately since I have no problem calling someone on the Carpet. I took your Remarks as poking fun and nothing else.


I never think of you as living in a city. I thought everyone but the Sloth and I had houses with yards or gardens. Wait, you have all those animals outside, so you don't live in an apartment. Never mind.

Seriously, I know you don't have trouble reading between the lines. I just had the stupidest back-and-forth with joeysomma; I can't believe how much needs to be spelled out for that bunch. I knew you could tell when I was joking.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. The New Yorkers of course!
> 
> I think we should call a moratorium until after New Year. No one wants to hear nasty stuff this week.
> 
> Good holidays to all - even the Lurkers.


A moratorium on what? Are you planning to stop writing altogether?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Let it Snow, let it Snow, let it Snow. Some softness needs to cover us right now.


I'd love it. Instead, it's going to be in the 50s here. Pfui!


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

It was in the mid to high 70s here today. Was running around outside in a t-shirt. We had a few days of rain a week ago, and a 10% chance of it tomorrow, but otherwise clear skies for the next 10 days. It is supposed to get down to 61 on Friday but then back up to the mid to high 60s for the next week. Winter seems to be slowly creeping up with a few hiccups along the way....


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I never think of you as living in a city. I thought everyone but the Sloth and I had houses with yards or gardens. Wait, you have all those animals outside, so you don't live in an apartment. Never mind.
> 
> Seriously, I know you don't have trouble reading between the lines. I just had the stupidest back-and-forth with joeysomma; I can't believe how much needs to be spelled out for that bunch. I knew you could tell when I was joking.


Poor Purl
I do live in a City and not in an Apartment, you are right and very lucky to still have wild creatures around. They have been squeezed out of their territory and now have to put up with me. We are doing our best to keep this property out of the hands of developers. They are not happy with us at all. 
I never had the slightest doubt that you were joking however drinking is a very touchy subject with some people and I understand that very well. It can and does destroy families in many ways. You apologized and that should lay this issue to rest. Season's Greetings, Huck


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Enjoy the holidays. See you soon.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I won't be on much in the next week. So I'd like to wish my Christian friends a Merry Christmas! And to all, Happy Holidays, Seasons Greetings, and Happy New Year! You've added a lot to my life and I appreciate every one of you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Dear People, there are times when anyone of us uses words which may hurt someone unintentionally. Let us view the bigger picture and see if it was just a slip up or meant to be funny or hurtful. Usually the meaning was to be funny. It is so easy to misinterpret statements. Let's err on the good side. What do you say? I am also aware of the fact that were we live influences our expressions. If you reside where there is little elbow room, you become a little feisty so to fit in and your tender spots need a little honing so not to always go into a crying spell. I wish to join hands in Peace. I am sure nothing was meant to be offensive or accusative. I have gotten some unexpected punches and found out eventually that nothing was meant to hurt my feelings. Apology accepted.
> May Peace be with us. Huck.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Let it Snow, let it Snow, let it Snow. Some softness needs to cover us right now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I do live in a City and not in an Apartment, you are right and very lucky to still have wild creatures around. They have been squeezed out of their territory and now have to put up with me. We are doing our best to keep this property out of the hands of developers. They are not happy with us at all.
> I never had the slightest doubt that you were joking however drinking is a very touchy subject with some people and I understand that very well. It can and does destroy families in many ways. You apologized and that should lay this issue to rest. Season's Greetings, Huck


Eve and I have made up. It's over just in time for the holiday. In case you're too busy tomorrow, have a wonderful Christmas and keep holding on to that property. It ain't easy, I know.

Hugs, PP.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Eve and I have made up. It's over just in time for the holiday. In case you're too busy tomorrow, have a wonderful Christmas and keep holding on to that property. It ain't easy, I know.
> 
> Hugs, PP.


Poor Purl
I just had to see if there was Holiday Spirit here. Now I lay me down to sleep. Good Night Everyone, sweet dreams. See you tomorrow. Thank you for the Hugs. I love to receive them and have no trouble giving them.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> PoorPurl
> City Folks like me. I had to make many adjustments when moving to where space is at a premium. I thought I was surrounded by the worst behaved people on this planet. Even getting in line to pay my groceries was a challenge. Doing my banking became another trial. In addition I was used to hearing and saying "excuse me" when dancing in front of someone and when doing so in the big City, I was looked at as if I had let one go. The number of moves in my Life taught me a lot, most of all to accept differences and be tolerant. Poor Purl, if I had a beef with you, you would know immediately since I have no problem calling someone on the Carpet. I took your Remarks as poking fun and nothing else.


That is why I have a great appreciation of the technology today because I don't have to wait in queues, get on crowded trains, go into the city or go out anywhere or tolerate anyone if I don't want to! I do everything via the computer and telephone.

I do enjoy engaging with people though so I do go out and about for errands etc., anyway but knowing I don't have to is so good!

A peaceful existence to all. Lurkers as well.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> It was in the mid to high 70s here today. Was running around outside in a t-shirt. We had a few days of rain a week ago, and a 10% chance of it tomorrow, but otherwise clear skies for the next 10 days. It is supposed to get down to 61 on Friday but then back up to the mid to high 60s for the next week. Winter seems to be slowly creeping up with a few hiccups along the way....


sumpleby, are your knitting needles running hot for the winter? What project are you working on?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

From all down under in Oz to all the happy people on KP

A Very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I forgot it is summer in Oz. Does Santa use a dune buggy?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> I forgot it is summer in Oz. Does Santa use a dune buggy?


No, his sled is still pulled by six white boomers.






but we are not mentioning Rolf Harris in polite circles these days.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> No, his sled is still pulled by six white boomers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Loved it OL' Pictureless One.

What did he do?






At the end of the link is a cute Wombat.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Loved it OL' Pictureless One.
> 
> What did he do?
> 
> ...


It saddened me -- we were big fans of him. Another Bill Cosby. Such a shame they use their power and money to attack young people.

Anyway, nice to see you posting my dear! Seasons greetings to you . Wish we could all meet but this interconnection serves us very well. Shirley


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> sumpleby, are your knitting needles running hot for the winter? What project are you working on?


Hi Wombat  Right now I am working on a vest. As I am a slooooow knitter it may take me some time....


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Will you omit the cream cheese? That seems to be a right-wing foodstuff.


I've read some of their recipes. Cream cheese is a perfectly nice thing to eat. However, we must elevate it to its proper place in the gourmet pantheon, which is not what's happening elsewhere.

Here's a classic: Cream Cheese and Chopped Olive Sandwiches, crustless and cut into four little triangles. Think of them as little treats for your knitting group along with watercress sandwiches and cucumber sandwiches. This is probably quite retro.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Joey's cat is a very bad example. Even in winter it looks stuffed into that outfit and not very happy about it. Your old sloth was naked and no one complained about that.


Joey's cat is a good example of cruelty to animals.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I've read some of their recipes. Cream cheese is a perfectly nice thing to eat. However, we must elevate it to its proper place in the gourmet pantheon, which is not what's happening elsewhere.
> 
> Here's a classic: Cream Cheese and Chopped Olive Sandwiches, crustless and cut into four little triangles. Think of them as little treats for your knitting group along with watercress sandwiches and cucumber sandwiches. This is probably quite retro.


I knew you would see the point. Are these to be served with milk tea and crumpets with clotted cream?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm laughing out loud. Cream cheese and olive sandwiches are a favorite of mine for 50 years. Yummmmm.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I've read some of their recipes. Cream cheese is a perfectly nice thing to eat. However, we must elevate it to its proper place in the gourmet pantheon, which is not what's happening elsewhere.
> 
> Here's a classic: Cream Cheese and Chopped Olive Sandwiches, crustless and cut into four little triangles. Think of them as little treats for your knitting group along with watercress sandwiches and cucumber sandwiches. This is probably quite retro.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey's equal opportunity, and consistent. That's the best I have to say.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Joey's cat is a good example of cruelty to animals.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SEASONS'S GREETINGS


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's some poinsetta!



Huckleberry said:


> SEASONS'S GREETINGS


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> That's some poinsetta!


It is absolutely beautiful, it reminds me of Queensland.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Joey's cat is a good example of cruelty to animals.


Your comment is a sad example of your cruelty towards others. Regardless if you agree with her opinions, everyone knows she has a kind heart and would never hurt an animal. Guess you need to review your RCIA.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Your comment is a sad example of your cruelty towards others. Regardless if you agree with her opinions, everyone knows she has a kind heart and would never hurt an animal. Guess you need to review your RCIA.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Good message, Eve.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Good message, Eve.


Thanks to Scottish Lass, she posted it first. I have exchanged PMs with her and she likes people to use her jokes and signs. I love reading SLs posts, she is always positive. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: to Scottish Lass for her posts.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Your comment is a sad example of your cruelty towards others. Regardless if you agree with her opinions, everyone knows she has a kind heart and would never hurt an animal. Guess you need to review your RCIA.


Were you born without a sense of humor, or did you have elective surgery to remove yours?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> *Silence&Smile*


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

My forum message inbox is mostly empty. Where are youse all hangin' out?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Were you born without a sense of humor, or did you have elective surgery to remove yours?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm dismayed by Hallmark removes Hanukkah wrap. Other groups are being targeted. I think it's just quiet over the holidays. I've been scouring for knit tips.



SQM said:


> My forum message inbox is mostly empty. Where are youse all hangin' out?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm dismayed by Hallmark removes Hanukkah wrap. Other groups are being targeted. I think it's just quiet over the holidays. I've been scouring for knit tips.


Supposedly the pattern was swastikas but actually it wasn't. It was a popular art deco design or egyptian design.

I guess I am being forced to knit and to watch HGTV.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Supposedly the pattern was swastikas but actually it wasn't. It was a popular art deco design or egyptian design.
> 
> I guess I am being forced to knit and to watch HGTV.


It went from there to American interment camps. Bigoted stuff. Don't tell me you missed it!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> It went from there to American interment camps. Bigoted stuff. Don't tell me you missed it!


No I saw the wrapping paper. It was not swastikas. It was art deco. Swastikas have a long history before the Nazis. They did not design it.

Dare I knit a scarf with swastikas? No Sloth, no.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why would you? You ARE lookin to rumble.



SQM said:


> No I saw the wrapping paper. It was not swastikas. It was art deco. Swastikas have a long history before the Nazis. They did not design it.
> 
> Dare I knit a scarf with swastikas? No Sloth, no.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Hi Wombat  Right now I am working on a vest. As I am a slooooow knitter it may take me some time....


Please post a pic when you've finished. Hope you enjoy the knit!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SEASONS'S GREETINGS


Poinsettia is gorgeous! Love those plants.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks to Scottish Lass, she posted it first. I have exchanged PMs with her and she likes people to use her jokes and signs. I love reading SLs posts, she is always positive. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: to Scottish Lass for her posts.


I LOVE SL's posts! They make my day!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I LOVE SL's posts! They make my day!


She is wonderful, upbeat, wise and very pleasant. Therefore, I do not read her posts.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> My forum message inbox is mostly empty. Where are youse all hangin' out?


I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!

#1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!

On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Supposedly the pattern was swastikas but actually it wasn't. It was a popular art deco design or egyptian design.
> 
> I guess I am being forced to knit and to watch HGTV.


When I lived in St Louis, I had a neighbor who babysat for 1st generation Chinese immigrants. They had a baby and the baby's grandmother had knit a sweater with a great big swastika on it. In China, it stood for "good fortune". My friend told the baby's mother that she shouldn't put that sweater on the baby, when they went out because people would equate it with the nazis. They weren't aware of that at all.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> She is wonderful, upbeat, wise and very pleasant. Therefore, I do not read her posts.


The jokes she posts are hilarious!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


Your story did make me laugh. Your Xmas was nuts. Now if Jews were a converting tribe, I think you would be very vulnerable to conversion. Then next year you would see a great movie and eat Chinese.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Your story did make me laugh. Your Xmas was nuts. Now if Jews were a converting tribe, I think you would be very vulnerable to conversion. Then next year you would see a great movie and eat Chinese.


 :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


I'm sorry you had such a rotten day, but your story was hilarious. You really do have a way with words.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


How awful. And yet how funny. I'm sorry it happened to you, but nobody else could have written it the way you did.

I have two words for your #1 son: _rubber sheets_


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Were you born without a sense of humor, or did you have elective surgery to remove yours?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> She is wonderful, upbeat, wise and very pleasant. Therefore, I do not read her posts.


 :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ugh. And to think some people feel that being all alone is the worst thing that can happen for the holidays! You proved that's wrong. Welcome home to a virtual visit at KP. It's fun and no cleaning necessary.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


I am sorry you had a really rough Christmas experience. I know exactly how you feel. Gun fight at the OK Coral has nothing on a happy family get together. My eldest sister threw a spazz a couple of years ago and flatly refused to attend any large family gatherings in future. She has 7 children, plus their significant others, plus assorted grandchildren and great grandchildren so she has plenty of experience. No 1 child does not speak to no 7 child and cannot stand no 3s spouse, no 4 child only eats certain meats and very little vegetables, everyone else's children are spoilt and uncontrolled and uncontrollable. I could go on but you get my drift. Sis said that in future she would choose where she went on Christmas day and it would be somewhere quiet and no fighting adults or children. She said if her children did not agree, then fine, she would just take herself into the homeless and needy persons' Christmas dinner that is run by the various charities. She said she could go as a volunteer on year and as a needy person the following year.

I would not worry about the 10 year old still wetting the bed. He will grow out of it, eventually. My youngest wet the bed until he was nearly 13 years old. The doctor said it was common for children and even adults who suffer from epilepsy to wet the bed, it is thought that they might be having minor seizures in their sleep and this results in them emptying their bladder involuntarily. I had an expensive waterproof sheet to place under his bottom sheet. It is the one that they use in hospitals. No leakages on to the mattress. I always took it with us when we were away from home. I always took a small foam mattress for him to sleep on, I found that more comfortable than a blow up mattress and no collapses in the middle of the night. Son did not do away with the waterproof undersheet until he was nearly 17 years old, even though he had not needed it for year. He would say "just in case, better to be safe than sorry".

I hope the New Year is a better time for you. I am sending you a virtual cup of coffee and a Tim Tam, so relax and enjoy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Your story did make me laugh. Your Xmas was nuts. Now if Jews were a converting tribe, I think you would be very vulnerable to conversion. Then next year you would see a great movie and eat Chinese.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How awful. And yet how funny. I'm sorry it happened to you, but nobody else could have written it the way you did.
> 
> I have two words for your #1 son: _rubber sheets_


Body bags?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Body bags?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Body bags?


This is one of your funniest lines ever.

Wicked and hilarious.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I only release my edit mind for you guys.



SQM said:


> This is one of your funniest lines ever.
> 
> Wicked and hilarious.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> This is one of your funniest lines ever.
> 
> Wicked and hilarious.


I agree. It made me laugh out loud.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have to know. Did this not occur to anyone else? Or everyone?



Poor Purl said:


> I agree. It made me laugh out loud.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How awful. And yet how funny. I'm sorry it happened to you, but nobody else could have written it the way you did.
> 
> I have two words for your #1 son: _rubber sheets_


Who needs rubber sheets when you have a rubber mattress? To be fair, #1 son did go to the store and bought a new mattress, but it was too late for my blankets. The 10 year old, also has a favorite comforter. He won't sleep without it. But all of the batting slides to one end, so apparently it takes all day, to dry in the dryer. I am not joking! My washer and dryer are in a closet in the hallway (10 feet from my chair). So I was blessed with an aromatic holiday.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Ugh. And to think some people feel that being all alone is the worst thing that can happen for the holidays! You proved that's wrong. Welcome home to a virtual visit at KP. It's fun and no cleaning necessary.


Ah, yes! I was reading the "sad" posts, from those who'd spent the holidays alone. I envied them!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am sorry you had a really rough Christmas experience. I know exactly how you feel. Gun fight at the OK Coral has nothing on a happy family get together. My eldest sister threw a spazz a couple of years ago and flatly refused to attend any large family gatherings in future. She has 7 children, plus their significant others, plus assorted grandchildren and great grandchildren so she has plenty of experience. No 1 child does not speak to no 7 child and cannot stand no 3s spouse, no 4 child only eats certain meats and very little vegetables, everyone else's children are spoilt and uncontrolled and uncontrollable. I could go on but you get my drift. Sis said that in future she would choose where she went on Christmas day and it would be somewhere quiet and no fighting adults or children. She said if her children did not agree, then fine, she would just take herself into the homeless and needy persons' Christmas dinner that is run by the various charities. She said she could go as a volunteer on year and as a needy person the following year.
> 
> I would not worry about the 10 year old still wetting the bed. He will grow out of it, eventually. My youngest wet the bed until he was nearly 13 years old. The doctor said it was common for children and even adults who suffer from epilepsy to wet the bed, it is thought that they might be having minor seizures in their sleep and this results in them emptying their bladder involuntarily. I had an expensive waterproof sheet to place under his bottom sheet. It is the one that they use in hospitals. No leakages on to the mattress. I always took it with us when we were away from home. I always took a small foam mattress for him to sleep on, I found that more comfortable than a blow up mattress and no collapses in the middle of the night. Son did not do away with the waterproof undersheet until he was nearly 17 years old, even though he had not needed it for year. He would say "just in case, better to be safe than sorry".
> 
> I hope the New Year is a better time for you. I am sending you a virtual cup of coffee and a Tim Tam, so relax and enjoy.


I didn't mean to sound as if I were unsympathetic to the bed wetter. Two of my boys were bedwetters. Been there, done that! It was the fact that my son stacked up my many blankets(like the princess and the pea's mattresses), without putting anything waterproof in between. All of this took place while I was sleeping, unsuspectingly. The other two kids were sleeping in proper beds with proper mattress protectors, but no one volunteered him a spot in the beds (a full and a queen). I guess I don't blame them.

Thank you for the coffee and Tim Tams. I've always wondered what they tasted like. Mmmm.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Body bags?


Hmmm...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I only release my edit mind for you guys.


We're grateful! I really, really, really, really really needed a laugh! (But honestly, I had to try really,really hard to laugh.) Thankfully, they're spending next Christmas with HER family.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're grateful! I really, really, really, really really needed a laugh! (But honestly, I had to try really,really hard to laugh.) Thankfully, they're spending next Christmas with HER family.


And if you play your cards right, the one after that and the one after that...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

There was one funny thing that happened on Christmas Eve. Many of you will not find it funny, but if you'd experienced the history, you'd see the humor. Mason, 3 years old, is a cutie. He used to be a sweet, gentle soul. But as of about 6 months ago, he's been a tiger. Max, also 3 years old, has always been a tiger. He pushes and hits without thinking. All of the adults say, "Now Max, don't push". On Christmas Eve, Max was up to his usual tricks and Mason had had enough! He hauled off and punched Max right in the kisser! We were all quite shocked but had a very hard time not laughing, as we all knew, Max deserved it! We just couldn't believe that Mason would have done that. He put both of his little fists up and popped him. Max was more shocked than hurt. We'll see if it makes any difference. I doubt that it will because Max acts without thinking.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> And if you play your cards right, the one after that and the one after that...


I'm thinking of moving and leaving no forwarding address!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


I am so sorry that your Christmas was ruined. It makes you wonder doesn't it?. It can be the most unhappy time. My MIL used to come every year and spend the whole time feeling sorry for herself and deliberately spoiling it for everyone. Finally Pat told her we wanted to spend Christmas day with theh family. I had her for dinner on boxing day or sometimes through the weeks. She complained constantly. 'no girl will ever be good enough for her son" to both of us. Finally he got sick of it and things improved.We went four years without her and finally she phoned him asking to come - he told her to ask me and apologise and she did so she started spending it with us and things were much better. She would start and he would give her the 'look' and she would stop in mid sentence. It was never perfect but it was better.

I am glad you vented to us - we are a warm place to land when one of us has a problem. Take care my dear and I am so sorry.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm thinking of moving and leaving no forwarding address!


Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!

It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.

After a few more questions the director and SIL went off to fill out some paperwork, and not two minutes later this gal with a portable harp under her arm appeared in the doorway. Without any sort of introduction she plunked it down on the foot of Brother's bed--we just sat, goggle-eyed and slack-jawed, as she launched into a solo.

My sister finally found her tongue and politely suggested the woman come back later, which didn't go down very well--she packed up her instrument in a huff and flounced out, slamming the door behind her as we stared in disbelief. Then Brother's wife reappeared with a puzzled frown on her face. There was this dame clutching a harp out in the corridor, she commented, complaining loudly to the director--"They said he liked music, ALL kind of music!" There was a moment of appalled silence and then, Lord help us, we all burst out laughing for the first time in days, it seemed.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am so sorry that your Christmas was ruined. It makes you wonder doesn't it?. It can be the most unhappy time. My MIL used to come every year and spend the whole time feeling sorry for herself and deliberately spoiling it for everyone. Finally Pat told her we wanted to spend Christmas day with theh family. I had her for dinner on boxing day or sometimes through the weeks. She complained constantly. 'no girl will ever be good enough for her son" to both of us. Finally he got sick of it and things improved.We went four years without her and finally she phoned him asking to come - he told her to ask me and apologise and she did so she started spending it with us and things were much better. She would start and he would give her the 'look' and she would stop in mid sentence. It was never perfect but it was better.
> 
> I am glad you vented to us - we are a warm place to land when one of us has a problem. Take care my dear and I am so sorry.


Thanks, Shirley! I can always count on you to lend an ear.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


Thank goodness for laughter! It heals the soul!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I knew you would see the point. Are these to be served with milk tea and crumpets with clotted cream?


I'd probably go crazy and make tea, coffee, a very sinful cake, and crumpets with lots of butter and jam to slather them with. And that's just for starters.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Joey's equal opportunity, and consistent. That's the best I have to say.


I just went ahead and said what I felt.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Your comment is a sad example of your cruelty towards others. Regardless if you agree with her opinions, everyone knows she has a kind heart and would never hurt an animal. Guess you need to review your RCIA.


My comment is a good example of the kind of positive treatment we must give our pets, among other creatures, including our fellow human beings. I made no remark about Joey's opinions. If she chooses to show her real feelings by choosing a nasty avatar, she can keep her opinions to herself. Cruel avatar equals cruel opinions.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank goodness for laughter! It heals the soul!


It really does--and I can only hope that we in turn provided some measure of relief for the staff and patients at the hospital and, later, the hospice. We really were something of a motley crew--Brother's wife, his two sons, his daughter, my sister, me, and two auxiliary members--my niece's boyfriend, who shyly remained on the sidelines, and the family dog (who was allowed to join us by the hospice staff). We knew Brother's time was short and so no one wanted to leave his side--we stayed with him night and day at the hospital and then traveled _en masse_ over to hospice for the final period. At one point I remember my SIL kind of apologizing for the fact that we all wanted to stay together, and the director's rather dry comment that she understood we were "a package deal"--apparently our reputation preceded us.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


Ah, isn't family wonderful. :thumbdown: I hope you've had a chance to rest up and feel better.

When I was a kid I had 9 aunts and uncles and 31 cousins. Need I say more? Well, at least they didn't stay with us. Only my grandfather and grandfather were allowed that privilege.

I did have one cousin who was a Hare Krishna and would turn up pretty often and cook inedible masses of supposedly Indian food. I really hate having to smile and compliment someone's cooking when I don't like it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. Cream cheese and olive sandwiches are a favorite of mine for 50 years. Yummmmm.


Make that 60 for me. And 63 for Limburger and sliced onions on rye bread.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


susanmos2000
a Harp at a Hospice? What were they thinking? Obviously they are not. Glad you had some reason for a laugh.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah, yes! I was reading the "sad" posts, from those who'd spent the holidays alone. I envied them!


Thanksgiving was our extended family holiday. Christmas was just for my parents, my brother and me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


One of my dearest friends, an extra brother really, was in hospice for 43 days. He vowed there would be a party in his room as long as he was there. We had a trail of his fellow friends and musicians on everyone of those 43 days. The usual group of medicos who went on rounds together came in frequently and said that his room was the happiest on the floor. Sometimes things can go really well, even in hospice.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have to know. Did this not occur to anyone else? Or everyone?


Not at all. It's kind of on the morbid side.

Unless you meant to type "sleeping bags."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Who needs rubber sheets when you have a rubber mattress? To be fair, #1 son did go to the store and bought a new mattress, but it was too late for my blankets. The 10 year old, also has a favorite comforter. He won't sleep without it. But all of the batting slides to one end, so apparently it takes all day, to dry in the dryer. I am not joking! My washer and dryer are in a closet in the hallway (10 feet from my chair). So I was blessed with an aromatic holiday.


The batting-slide can be done away with if someone has a sewing machine. Sew straight across, with seams about 10 inches apart, horizontally and vertically, or whatever looks best to you - in other words, quilt the darned thing. It would take about an hour to do.

But after your story, I'm wondering whether I really want a dil and grandchildren.

So far I still do, but a few more of your incidents and I may change my mind (and not my sheets).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm thinking of moving and leaving no forwarding address!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


I'm shocked, _shocked_ at your ungracious behavior. Here is this volunteer, a real-life angel lugging around her harp to play for the patients (all of whom are waiting to die and wanting to know what heaven will be like), and you dismiss her as if she were a candy-striper with a boom box. And then - after that dismissal - you all _laugh_ at her, thereby making her feel foolish for wanting to entertain you all, but especially your very ill brother?

What a funny story!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'd probably go crazy and make tea, coffee, a very sinful cake, and crumpets with lots of butter and jam to slather them with. And that's just for starters.


If you add the clotted cream, I'm coming over.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My comment is a good example of the kind of positive treatment we must give our pets, among other creatures, including our fellow human beings. I made no remark about Joey's opinions. If she chooses to show her real feelings by choosing a nasty avatar, she can keep her opinions to herself. Cruel avatar equals cruel opinions.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It really does--and I can only hope that we in turn provided some measure of relief for the staff and patients at the hospital and, later, the hospice. We really were something of a motley crew--Brother's wife, his two sons, his daughter, my sister, me, and two auxiliary members--my niece's boyfriend, who shyly remained on the sidelines, and the family dog (who was allowed to join us by the hospice staff). We knew Brother's time was short and so no one wanted to leave his side--we stayed with him night and day at the hospital and then traveled _en masse_ over to hospice for the final period. At one point I remember my SIL kind of apologizing for the fact that we all wanted to stay together, and the director's rather dry comment that she understood we were "a package deal"--apparently our reputation preceded us.


Surely yours wasn't the only family that piled in like that.

We all hung around when my father was in the hospital (though we weren't expecting him to die so soon). The day he went, mom and my sister and bil were there as expected; I had planned to spend the day paying bills but decided I could do that just as well in the hospital room. Two sets of aunts and uncles were there, too, for their twice-a-week visit. Then, unexpectedly, my brother and his wife showed up - their daughter was having minor surgery at the same hospital, so while she was in the OR, they came up to visit. At about the same time, DH walked in the door. At no time did any hospital staff try to trim down our crowd.

Then with all ten or 12 of us in the room, dad began to have trouble breathing. The staff sent us all out then, and while they were working on him, he died.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Surely yours wasn't the only family that piled in like that.
> 
> We all hung around when my father was in the hospital (though we weren't expecting him to die so soon). The day he went, mom and my sister and bil were there as expected; I had planned to spend the day paying bills but decided I could do that just as well in the hospital room. Two sets of aunts and uncles were there, too, for their twice-a-week visit. Then, unexpectedly, my brother and his wife showed up - their daughter was having minor surgery at the same hospital, so while she was in the OR, they came up to visit. At about the same time, DH walked in the door. At no time did any hospital staff try to trim down our crowd.
> 
> Then with all ten or 12 of us in the room, dad began to have trouble breathing. The staff sent us all out then, and while they were working on him, he died.


When my MIL died, she had been in intensive care for several days and our family paid no attention whatever to the rules about how many visitors could be in her room - or for how long. My daughter, who is a registered nurse, also made it her business to check her grandmother's chart to be sure her care was up to par (it wasn't) so the nurses started hiding the chart. When the nurses fussed at us, they were told, "get used to it." MIL died as a result of gross malpractice on the part of the hospital and they all knew it - no one had the nerve to chase us out even though there were 12 of us by her bedside when she drew her last breath.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks to Scottish Lass, she posted it first. I have exchanged PMs with her and she likes people to use her jokes and signs. I love reading SLs posts, she is always positive. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: to Scottish Lass for her posts.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Go Brunhilda, Go!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm back! After the Christmas from H#LL! Never again!
> 
> #1 son came with his new family (wife and 3 kids) and TWO dogs! One extremely LARGE German Shepherd who still acts like a puppy and a pug beagle mix who digs in the trash, steals food and rubs her a$$ all over the carpet (not to mention jumping on my leather couch and putting her a$$ on my couch pillows)! The 10 year old wets the bed, so they brought his own air bed and blankets, but the air bed lost air in the middle of the night, so my son decided to make him a bed from MY blankets. I had 10 or 12 clean blankets in a tub downstairs. So all of my blankets were pissed on and he was doing laundry all day, every day. In addition, he had to wash the boys bedding everyday. (He wears pull ups but they dont work) My washer and dryer are on the main floor, so I had to listen to that everyday along with barking dogs, yelling kids and talking adults!
> 
> On Christmas Eve, daughter's fiancee was sick, but came anyway. #2 and #3 dils were in a bad mood! I hardly got to see my grandsons at all, because they were downstairs playing with the 10 year old. I worked my a$$ off getting the food ready. Everybody ate, then opened presents and left! #1 dil put the kids to bed and went to church with #2 dil (they didn't invite me). #1 son and DH took mil home and were gone for TWO HOURS! I spent Christmas Eve ALONE, cleaning up the mess! Things didn't improve from there! I'll just stop here. Suffice it to say, Never Again!


What a nightmare for you! Sorry you had to endure all of that. It's not what you need at Christmas or any other time for that matter. Make sure next Christmas is held at one of the others place!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm shocked, _shocked_ at your ungracious behavior. Here is this volunteer, a real-life angel lugging around her harp to play for the patients (all of whom are waiting to die and wanting to know what heaven will be like), and you dismiss her as if she were a candy-striper with a boom box. And then - after that dismissal - you all _laugh_ at her, thereby making her feel foolish for wanting to entertain you all, but especially your very ill brother?
> 
> What a funny story!


Harp lady may not deserve to be in a body bag but the harp definitely does!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> When my MIL died, she had been in intensive care for several days and our family paid no attention whatever to the rules about how many visitors could be in her room - or for how long. My daughter, who is a registered nurse, also made it her business to check her grandmother's chart to be sure her care was up to par (it wasn't) so the nurses started hiding the chart. When the nurses fussed at us, they were told, "get used to it." MIL died as a result of gross malpractice on the part of the hospital and they all knew it - no one had the nerve to chase us out even though there were 12 of us by her bedside when she drew her last breath.


I'm always bothered by stories about incompetents who, rather than try harder to look good, choose instead to try not to get caught. In a hospital, esp. in intensive care, it's criminal. You would think that with such a large audience they'd perform better.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Harp lady may not deserve to be in a body bag but the harp definitely does!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

I get the feeling "body bag" is going to appear in a lot of messages from now on.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> I get the feeling "body bag" is going to appear in a lot of messages from now on.


 :XD: :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am an old bag - so I guess my body is a body bag. I had to be the first.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe you should copy each of them. I'm still laughing.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah, yes! I was reading the "sad" posts, from those who'd spent the holidays alone. I envied them!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That gives you time to move with no forwarding address.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We're grateful! I really, really, really, really really needed a laugh! (But honestly, I had to try really,really hard to laugh.) Thankfully, they're spending next Christmas with HER family.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great minds.....



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm thinking of moving and leaving no forwarding address!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Everything is worth a laugh. Nothing releases tension like a laugh.



susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It really does--and I can only hope that we in turn provided some measure of relief for the staff and patients at the hospital and, later, the hospice. We really were something of a motley crew--Brother's wife, his two sons, his daughter, my sister, me, and two auxiliary members--my niece's boyfriend, who shyly remained on the sidelines, and the family dog (who was allowed to join us by the hospice staff). We knew Brother's time was short and so no one wanted to leave his side--we stayed with him night and day at the hospital and then traveled _en masse_ over to hospice for the final period. At one point I remember my SIL kind of apologizing for the fact that we all wanted to stay together, and the director's rather dry comment that she understood we were "a package deal"--apparently our reputation preceded us.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: One of the nicest things I've heard said about any family.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ah, isn't family wonderful. :thumbdown: I hope you've had a chance to rest up and feel better.
> 
> When I was a kid I had 9 aunts and uncles and 31 cousins. Need I say more? Well, at least they didn't stay with us. Only my grandfather and grandfather were allowed that privilege.
> 
> I did have one cousin who was a Hare Krishna and would turn up pretty often and cook inedible masses of supposedly Indian food. I really hate having to smile and compliment someone's cooking when I don't like it.


I understand completely, knowing you would do a much better job.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope. Body bags came to mind. I do have a sense of black humor. Sorry. Hope I didn't offend anyone.



Poor Purl said:


> Not at all. It's kind of on the morbid side.
> 
> Unless you meant to type "sleeping bags."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I laughed, of course.



Poor Purl said:


> I'm shocked, _shocked_ at your ungracious behavior. Here is this volunteer, a real-life angel lugging around her harp to play for the patients (all of whom are waiting to die and wanting to know what heaven will be like), and you dismiss her as if she were a candy-striper with a boom box. And then - after that dismissal - you all _laugh_ at her, thereby making her feel foolish for wanting to entertain you all, but especially your very ill brother?
> 
> What a funny story!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shameful. I'm so sorry this memory will stay in your minds.



DGreen said:


> When my MIL died, she had been in intensive care for several days and our family paid no attention whatever to the rules about how many visitors could be in her room - or for how long. My daughter, who is a registered nurse, also made it her business to check her grandmother's chart to be sure her care was up to par (it wasn't) so the nurses started hiding the chart. When the nurses fussed at us, they were told, "get used to it." MIL died as a result of gross malpractice on the part of the hospital and they all knew it - no one had the nerve to chase us out even though there were 12 of us by her bedside when she drew her last breath.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Harp lady may not deserve to be in a body bag but the harp definitely does!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My comment is a good example of the kind of positive treatment we must give our pets, among other creatures, including our fellow human beings. I made no remark about Joey's opinions. If she chooses to show her real feelings by choosing a nasty avatar, she can keep her opinions to herself. Cruel avatar equals cruel opinions.


Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


I think it's a cruel avatar, too, just never mentioned it.

Don't have to be a god to recognize cruelty.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


lovethelake
now I begin to understand your behavior. You have no understanding of what is nasty or cruel, Gods only can differentiate? Warped.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


Joey's avatar has been discussed but I'm not going to search out the discussion. I'm just a human being and I'm allowed to have my own opinions about what's nasty or cruel. It's also my considered opinion that you're one of the last people in the world I want to have pray for me. Save your prayers for yourself. You need them more than I do.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> now I begin to understand your behavior. You have no understanding of what is nasty or cruel, Gods only can differentiate? Warped.


Santa does also. Let him be the judge of Mrs. Somma's avatar.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Nope. Body bags came to mind. I do have a sense of black humor. Sorry. Hope I didn't offend anyone.


I don't think so. I laughed so suddenly and so loudly that it scared my cat away.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


-----
You make 'judgments all the time and have a completely closed mind filled with unkindness. You are not interested in conversation, you are interested in attacking everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, rigid ideas. There is love in your heart for only those you think 'deserve' it . 
Everyone one who doesn't agree with you is evil in your mind. Even those of us who wish you and your friends Merry Christmas. You have no idea whether I meant it -- you didn't want me to have meant it. So you made sure you spoiled my Christmas wish on the D and P thread and then over here. Those who know me know whether I meant it. You are a mean, petty, rigid person who loves to stir hate.

It isn't a happy place to be her cat and the cat can't say so.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm always bothered by stories about incompetents who, rather than try harder to look good, choose instead to try not to get caught. In a hospital, esp. in intensive care, it's criminal. You would think that with such a large audience they'd perform better.


We had a short,different experience with Rob my son. He was in the hospice ward in the hospital and at the end he was transerred to Hopsice care place. They were great. We were there all night and they brought us coffee and make him comfortable.He was only in hospice over night but we thought they really cared. They were kind afterwards and let us say good by -each of us.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


Who made you a god to determine whose mind is warped and whose isn't? In fact, if you ever read the messages other people wrote, you would have seen comments about it, probably going back about a year (she hasn't been using that avatar for "all the years").

It's too bad about your sense of humor. Once that's gone, all you can do is make unfunny jokes about people you don't like, including unfunny absurd initials or word-combinations.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> now I begin to understand your behavior. You have no understanding of what is nasty or cruel, Gods only can differentiate? Warped.


Thank you, Huck. That's exactly what's going on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Joey's avatar has been discussed but I'm not going to search out the discussion. I'm just a human being and I'm allowed to have my own opinions about what's nasty or cruel. It's also my considered opinion that you're one of the last people in the world I want to have pray for me. Save your prayers for yourself. You need them more than I do.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> -----
> You make 'judgments all the time and have a completely closed mind filled with unkindness. You are not interested in conversation, you are interested in attacking everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, rigid ideas. There is love in your heart for only those you think 'deserve' it .
> Everyone one who doesn't agree with you is evil in your mind. Even those of us who wish you and your friends Merry Christmas. You have no idea whether I meant it -- you didn't want me to have meant it. So you made sure you spoiled my Christmas wish on the D and P thread and then over here. Those who know me know whether I meant it. You are a mean, petty, rigid person who loves to stir hate.
> 
> It isn't a happy place to be her cat and the cat can't say so.


How right you are about LTL. In joey's defense, I'd like to point out that that's not really her cat; it's a picture she found in which the cat was wearing Green Bay Packers colors. She must be a great football fan to think a cat in such an uncomfortable outfit is cute (or whatever she does think).

BTW, LTL has yet to acknowledge that she lied when she accused you of posting memes on D&P. This is my third time mentioning it; eventually it should get into her thick, rigid head.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> We had a short,different experience with Rob my son. He was in the hospice ward in the hospital and at the end he was transerred to Hopsice care place. They were great. We were there all night and they brought us coffee and make him comfortable.He was only in hospice over night but we thought they really cared. They were kind afterwards and let us say good by -each of us.


My experience with hospital personnel (I have no experience with hospice) has been almost entirely good, so I don't doubt that you were well taken care of along with your son. On the other hand, there are a lot of horror stories about hospitals, so I think DGreen's story is also believable. The bigger business hospitals become, the worse care we'll get.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'd probably go crazy and make tea, coffee, a very sinful cake, and crumpets with lots of butter and jam to slather them with. And that's just for starters.


I had to google crumpets and clotted cream to find out what they were.Yuk! I'll take the tea or coffee and cake!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmm...I think they'd manage to track you down regardless, Nebraska--you're such a goodhearted soul and willing to put up with so much!
> 
> It's odd how humor crops up in even the most difficult of circumstances. In hospice we had a moment like that--Brother had just been admitted, and we were attempting to make him comfortable after a difficult transport. After a few minutes the director came in to introduce herself and find out a bit more about Brother's likes and dislikes. Was he fond of music? she wanted to know, and we answered in the affirmative, listing his his favorite groups and indicating the guitar in the corner that Brother's son had been playing for his dad's pleasure.
> 
> ...


A harp?!? Seriously?!?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ah, isn't family wonderful. :thumbdown: I hope you've had a chance to rest up and feel better.
> 
> When I was a kid I had 9 aunts and uncles and 31 cousins. Need I say more? Well, at least they didn't stay with us. Only my grandfather and grandfather were allowed that privilege.
> 
> I did have one cousin who was a Hare Krishna and would turn up pretty often and cook inedible masses of supposedly Indian food. I really hate having to smile and compliment someone's cooking when I don't like it.


Did you all get together? And if so, where?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not at all. It's kind of on the morbid side.
> 
> Unless you meant to type "sleeping bags."


I thought it was funny. I must have a morbid sense of humor. :XD:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The batting-slide can be done away with if someone has a sewing machine. Sew straight across, with seams about 10 inches apart, horizontally and vertically, or whatever looks best to you - in other words, quilt the darned thing. It would take about an hour to do.
> 
> But after your story, I'm wondering whether I really want a dil and grandchildren.
> 
> So far I still do, but a few more of your incidents and I may change my mind (and not my sheets).


I wasn't about to volunteer to sew up the damp comforter. Uh uh! Nope!

If you do get a dil and grandchildren, just pray they don't bring their dogs and stay for five days! And its much more fun to get the grandchildren when they're babies! Teenagers won't talk to you, unless they have to.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Surely yours wasn't the only family that piled in like that.
> 
> We all hung around when my father was in the hospital (though we weren't expecting him to die so soon). The day he went, mom and my sister and bil were there as expected; I had planned to spend the day paying bills but decided I could do that just as well in the hospital room. Two sets of aunts and uncles were there, too, for their twice-a-week visit. Then, unexpectedly, my brother and his wife showed up - their daughter was having minor surgery at the same hospital, so while she was in the OR, they came up to visit. At about the same time, DH walked in the door. At no time did any hospital staff try to trim down our crowd.
> 
> Then with all ten or 12 of us in the room, dad began to have trouble breathing. The staff sent us all out then, and while they were working on him, he died.


In November, when I took DH to the ER, I called my two sons (the ones in town) and my daughter. They came immediately to the ER. My daughter had her fiancee, so that made five of us. The nurse said we could only have two at a time so my daughter and her fiancee left the room. (They probably thought we couldn't count.) They returned five minutes later. (They probably thought we had comprehension issues) We stayed out of the way, but we stayed. Hubby's blood pressure was extremely high and heart rate very low. They said they were worried that the bp medicine might cause his heart to stop! We weren't leaving! They finally admitted him around 3am. They made the "kids" stay in the waiting room but let me in to see him settled. Then they said I had to leave. I said, "I'm not leaving.". They said since he had a male roommate, no one of the opposite sex could stay the night. I said, " I'm not leaving!". Long story short, they found a private room and I didn't leave except to go home and shower when another family member was there. My sons took off work any we had LOTS of family visiting. They were probably glad they'd put him in a private room. I've no idea what it cost because we haven't seen a bill yet. But I don't care! They can't tell me my husband's heart might stop and then tell me to come back during visiting hours! Not happening!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> When my MIL died, she had been in intensive care for several days and our family paid no attention whatever to the rules about how many visitors could be in her room - or for how long. My daughter, who is a registered nurse, also made it her business to check her grandmother's chart to be sure her care was up to par (it wasn't) so the nurses started hiding the chart. When the nurses fussed at us, they were told, "get used to it." MIL died as a result of gross malpractice on the part of the hospital and they all knew it - no one had the nerve to chase us out even though there were 12 of us by her bedside when she drew her last breath.


The VA killed my father! He had Parkinson's Disease. They had him on way too many drugs and was suffering side effects. So what did they do? They put him on another drug! This drug was contraindicated for anyone over 50 and anyone with Parkinson's. First, he broke out in hives. Then he became psychotic. After a nightmarish night, we were able to get him to the ER. The prescribing doctor insisted that he didn't have hives and even though the drug caused him to be psychotic, he needed it. I argued with him but my mother shushed me and said we had to do what the doctor said. The next day, he went into a coma. Another doctor entered the case and said he shouldn't have been given that drug and all of his problems were because he was on too many drugs in the first place. They put him on a "drug holiday" (no drugs at all) and he woke up a week later. He had to have lots of therapy just to sit up and walk after that. He recovered from that. But a couple of years later, they'd given him a drug that caused his esophagus to hemorrhage. They tried to tell me the hemorrhage was caused by alcoholism. I told them my father had never drank a drop, as long as I'd known him! (My mother was an alcoholic but my father NEVER drank. EVER!) He ended up with sepsis from blood transfusions, and died. If he'd gone to a decent hospital, who knows? But my mother insisted upon the VA, even though they had good insurance!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Maybe you should copy each of them. I'm still laughing.


Laugh away! It could happen to you!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Another case of the pot calling the kettle black? You give the impression of being opinionated and judgmental yourself. Agree to disagree and discuss something worthwhile.



lovethelake said:


> Who made you a god to determine what is nasty or cruel? For all the years she has had that avatar only you have had a warped mind to think that in my opinion. I will pray that your life will not be so empty that all you have to fill your time are ways to hurt others and make untrue comments.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Joey's avatar has been discussed but I'm not going to search out the discussion. I'm just a human being and I'm allowed to have my own opinions about what's nasty or cruel. It's also my considered opinion that you're one of the last people in the world I want to have pray for me. Save your prayers for yourself. You need them more than I do.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Atta girl.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know how to say this....but we're all adults although we don't always act like one.

Santa only exists in our hearts. I've never heard of Santa wasting time as a judge except for that naughty or nice thing.



SQM said:


> Santa does also. Let him be the judge of Mrs. Somma's avatar.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> I get the feeling "body bag" is going to appear in a lot of messages from now on.


You bet your body bag it will!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like my scaredy cat.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't think so. I laughed so suddenly and so loudly that it scared my cat away.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am an old bag - so I guess my body is a body bag. I had to be the first.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: A 'bag' filled with delicate bones and gizzards! Old bag indeed! I've seen you and you're just a pup!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love the avatar of the matching sweaters. Take care of yourself and ignore the nonsense. hugs



Designer1234 said:


> -----
> You make 'judgments all the time and have a completely closed mind filled with unkindness. You are not interested in conversation, you are interested in attacking everyone who doesn't agree with your narrow, rigid ideas. There is love in your heart for only those you think 'deserve' it .
> Everyone one who doesn't agree with you is evil in your mind. Even those of us who wish you and your friends Merry Christmas. You have no idea whether I meant it -- you didn't want me to have meant it. So you made sure you spoiled my Christmas wish on the D and P thread and then over here. Those who know me know whether I meant it. You are a mean, petty, rigid person who loves to stir hate.
> 
> It isn't a happy place to be her cat and the cat can't say so.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That helps the grieving process. No regrets. Just a natural end of life.



Designer1234 said:


> We had a short,different experience with Rob my son. He was in the hospice ward in the hospital and at the end he was transerred to Hopsice care place. They were great. We were there all night and they brought us coffee and make him comfortable.He was only in hospice over night but we thought they really cared. They were kind afterwards and let us say good by -each of us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How right you are about LTL. In joey's defense, I'd like to point out that that's not really her cat; it's a picture she found in which the cat was wearing Green Bay Packers colors. She must be a great football fan to think a cat in such an uncomfortable outfit is cute (or whatever she does think).
> 
> BTW, LTL has yet to acknowledge that she lied when she accused you of posting memes on D&P. This is my third time mentioning it; eventually it should get into her thick, rigid head.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Never through that thick skull.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I had to google crumpets and clotted cream to find out what they were.Yuk! I'll take the tea or coffee and cake!


KFN, you don't know what your missing. Hot crumpets oozing with hot butter and Vegemite is an Australian rite of passage. The crumpets become desert with jam and clotted cream. Then there are Devonshire Teas, served in the mountains; scones slathered with jam and clotted cream and a fine tea is served with all of the above. Mmmm!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wasn't about to volunteer to sew up the damp comforter. Uh uh! Nope!
> 
> If you do get a dil and grandchildren, just pray they don't bring their dogs and stay for five days! And its much more fun to get the grandchildren when they're babies! Teenagers won't talk to you, unless they have to.


In my experience teenagers won't speak to anyone but their friends as long as they have free access to snacks.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't know how to say this....but we're all adults although we don't always act like one.
> 
> Santa only exists in our hearts. I've never heard of Santa wasting time as a judge except for that naughty or nice thing.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You chose your battle well.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In November, when I took DH to the ER, I called my two sons (the ones in town) and my daughter. They came immediately to the ER. My daughter had her fiancee, so that made five of us. The nurse said we could only have two at a time so my daughter and her fiancee left the room. (They probably thought we couldn't count.) They returned five minutes later. (They probably thought we had comprehension issues) We stayed out of the way, but we stayed. Hubby's blood pressure was extremely high and heart rate very low. They said they were worried that the bp medicine might cause his heart to stop! We weren't leaving! They finally admitted him around 3am. They made the "kids" stay in the waiting room but let me in to see him settled. Then they said I had to leave. I said, "I'm not leaving.". They said since he had a male roommate, no one of the opposite sex could stay the night. I said, " I'm not leaving!". Long story short, they found a private room and I didn't leave except to go home and shower when another family member was there. My sons took off work any we had LOTS of family visiting. They were probably glad they'd put him in a private room. I've no idea what it cost because we haven't seen a bill yet. But I don't care! They can't tell me my husband's heart might stop and then tell me to come back during visiting hours! Not happening!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm very sorry to hear this. My condolences.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The VA killed my father! He had Parkinson's Disease. They had him on way too many drugs and was suffering side effects. So what did they do? They put him on another drug! This drug was contraindicated for anyone over 50 and anyone with Parkinson's. First, he broke out in hives. Then he became psychotic. After a nightmarish night, we were able to get him to the ER. The prescribing doctor insisted that he didn't have hives and even though the drug caused him to be psychotic, he needed it. I argued with him but my mother shushed me and said we had to do what the doctor said. The next day, he went into a coma. Another doctor entered the case and said he shouldn't have been given that drug and all of his problems were because he was on too many drugs in the first place. They put him on a "drug holiday" (no drugs at all) and he woke up a week later. He had to have lots of therapy just to sit up and walk after that. He recovered from that. But a couple of years later, they'd given him a drug that caused his esophagus to hemorrhage. They tried to tell me the hemorrhage was caused by alcoholism. I told them my father had never drank a drop, as long as I'd known him! (My mother was an alcoholic but my father NEVER drank. EVER!) He ended up with sepsis from blood transfusions, and died. If he'd gone to a decent hospital, who knows? But my mother insisted upon the VA, even though they had good insurance!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> KFN, you don't know what your missing. Hot crumpets oozing with hot butter and Vegemite is an Australian rite of passage. The crumpets become desert with jam and clotted cream. Then there are Devonshire Teas, served in the mountains; scones slathered with jam and clotted cream and a fine tea is served with all of the above. Mmmm!


Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> You bet your body bag it will!


 :XD:

Now abbreviated as BYBB. :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If I'm an old bag in a body bag, wouldn't it be better to call me a hag in a body bag?



Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: A 'bag' filled with delicate bones and gizzards! Old bag indeed! I've seen you and you're just a pup!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Honey's as pretty as his Mum. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD:
> 
> Now abbreviated as BYBB. :XD: :XD:


Love it! :XD: :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> If I'm an old bag in a body bag, wouldn't it be better to call me a hag in a body bag?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: No old bags or hags here Dame! Body bags in the future - that's a given!!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wasn't about to volunteer to sew up the damp comforter. Uh uh! Nope!
> 
> If you do get a dil and grandchildren, just pray they don't bring their dogs and stay for five days! And its much more fun to get the grandchildren when they're babies! Teenagers won't talk to you, unless they have to.


Thanks for that advice at the end. I won't accept any GKs older than 3. And there won't be any dogs - we're owned by cats.

I didn't mean for you to sew the comforter. His parents should see to that, especially if they have to keep washing it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The VA killed my father! He had Parkinson's Disease. They had him on way too many drugs and was suffering side effects. So what did they do? They put him on another drug! This drug was contraindicated for anyone over 50 and anyone with Parkinson's. First, he broke out in hives. Then he became psychotic. After a nightmarish night, we were able to get him to the ER. The prescribing doctor insisted that he didn't have hives and even though the drug caused him to be psychotic, he needed it. I argued with him but my mother shushed me and said we had to do what the doctor said. The next day, he went into a coma. Another doctor entered the case and said he shouldn't have been given that drug and all of his problems were because he was on too many drugs in the first place. They put him on a "drug holiday" (no drugs at all) and he woke up a week later. He had to have lots of therapy just to sit up and walk after that. He recovered from that. But a couple of years later, they'd given him a drug that caused his esophagus to hemorrhage. They tried to tell me the hemorrhage was caused by alcoholism. I told them my father had never drank a drop, as long as I'd known him! (My mother was an alcoholic but my father NEVER drank. EVER!) He ended up with sepsis from blood transfusions, and died. If he'd gone to a decent hospital, who knows? But my mother insisted upon the VA, even though they had good insurance!


What a dreadful experience. And the VA is apparently no better today.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> You bet your body bag it will!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:

Wait. Shouldn't that be "You bet your _sweet_ body bag it will!"?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> KFN, you don't know what your missing. Hot crumpets oozing with hot butter and Vegemite is an Australian rite of passage. The crumpets become desert with jam and clotted cream. Then there are Devonshire Teas, served in the mountains; scones slathered with jam and clotted cream and a fine tea is served with all of the above. Mmmm!


Thank you. KFN is obviously one of those food snobs who look down on British cuisine.

Hey, I'm one of them, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> In my experience teenagers won't speak to anyone but their friends as long as they have free access to snacks.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

and a smartphone.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Wait. Shouldn't that be "You bet your _sweet_ body bag it will!"?


BYBB or BYSBB? I'm just trying to figure it out.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> KFN, you don't know what your missing. Hot crumpets oozing with hot butter and Vegemite is an Australian rite of passage. The crumpets become desert with jam and clotted cream. Then there are Devonshire Teas, served in the mountains; scones slathered with jam and clotted cream and a fine tea is served with all of the above. Mmmm!


Google says crumpets are like a hard pancake. In the picture, it looks like an English muffin. While I can stand to eat either of those, I wouldn't choose them. In fact, they'd be pretty far down on my list. Clotted cream sounds very much like butter. I don't like butter and only use it in baking and cooking. I can stand to eat scones but wonder why anyone would. They're hard, dry and mostly tasteless. I'd much prefer a donut, a cinnamon roll or a muffin. And from what wiki says about Vegemite, salty, bitter and malty??? I'm glad you like it but that doesn't sound like anything I could keep in my mouth.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


My kids are very picky about honey, as well. They'll only eat clover honey but never if it's started to sugar.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD:
> 
> Now abbreviated as BYBB. :XD: :XD:


 :XD: I'll remember this one!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> If I'm an old bag in a body bag, wouldn't it be better to call me a hag in a body bag?


A hag in a bag?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for that advice at the end. I won't accept any GKs older than 3. And there won't be any dogs - we're owned by cats.
> 
> I didn't mean for you to sew the comforter. His parents should see to that, especially if they have to keep washing it.


We're cat people as well. My poor cat was terrorized. She hid under our bed and would only come out at night when the dogs were safely locked away in their kennel.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a dreadful experience. And the VA is apparently no better today.


And that was supposedly one of the good ones. No one I know, would even think of going to o the VA here in Omaha. We've all heard bad things.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. KFN is obviously one of those food snobs who look down on British cuisine.
> 
> Hey, I'm one of them, too.


I think the British will eat anything. I'm sure I'd starve to death over there.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> and a smartphone.


You're right about that! And they got tablet computers for Christmas. So, we rarely saw their faces. Only the tops of their heads.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> BYBB or BYSBB? I'm just trying to figure it out.


KISS! I'll stick with BYBB. When someone irritates us, we can just say, BYBB. :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Why is it that nobody's ever here when I'm here? I just play catch up,talking to myself. Well, I'm off to take down the tree and clean. Maybe I'll be back next week (joking). There's lots of cleaning to be done! Yuck!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think the British will eat anything. I'm sure I'd starve to death over there.


Knitter from Nebraska
they do? Since when?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Google says crumpets are like a hard pancake. In the picture, it looks like an English muffin. While I can stand to eat either of those, I wouldn't choose them. In fact, they'd be pretty far down on my list. Clotted cream sounds very much like butter. I don't like butter and only use it in baking and cooking. I can stand to eat scones but wonder why anyone would. They're hard, dry and mostly tasteless. I'd much prefer a donut, a cinnamon roll or a muffin. And from what wiki says about Vegemite, salty, bitter and malty??? I'm glad you like it but that doesn't sound like anything I could keep in my mouth.


Knitter from Nebraska
Crumpets are a heck of a lot better than Sponge Cake. Yikes, that makes me puke. We got plenty of food that should be stricken from any menu as far as I am concerned but then if anyone likes it, who am I to judge since I have a choice.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Crumpets are a heck of a lot better than Sponge Cake. Yikes, that makes me puke. We got plenty of food that should be stricken from any menu as far as I am concerned but then if anyone likes it, who am I to judge since I have a choice.


Crumpets are absolutely delicious, served with just butter is my preference. Just a quote here



> Crumpets are the quintessential, afternoon tea treat, served warm with lots of butter. The soft, spongy crumpets we know today, reputedly, come from the Victorian era and are very different from early, flat griddle cakes. It is the extra yeast in the batter which creates the soft texture and the myriad of little holes on the top (so perfect for soaking up the butter).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Hot crumpets with honey. I take delicious delight in asking my son "do you fancy a bit of hot crumpet with Honey?" Of course his reply is "why not, but it really depends on what Honey looks like".


I just remembered: _crumpet_ is British slang for "'desirable woman' attested 1936, possibly as cockney rhyming slang for strumpet; alternatively, compare tart (loose woman, prostitute) (itself possibly cockney rhyming slang for heart or sweetheart)" <from Wiktionary> - what the Urban dictionary calls "hot chick." Honey on one's crumpet is beginning to sound very wicked.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> BYBB or BYSBB? I'm just trying to figure it out.


Does it matter? Just don't confuse it with BYOB.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How right you are about LTL. In joey's defense, I'd like to point out that that's not really her cat; it's a picture she found in which the cat was wearing Green Bay Packers colors. She must be a great football fan to think a cat in such an uncomfortable outfit is cute (or whatever she does think).
> 
> BTW, LTL has yet to acknowledge that she lied when she accused you of posting memes on D&P. This is my third time mentioning it; eventually it should get into her thick, rigid head.


You must be the thick headed one to not 'get' that I don't lie, I am not thick headed (smart but not dense) and not rigid, just believe in not parsing words or be wishy washy about my core beliefs. Maybe if you bang your head against your Obama poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again does not make it true or even interesting.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> You must be the thick headed one to not 'get' that I don't lie, I am not thick headed (smart but not dense) and not rigid, just believe in not parsing words or be wishy washy about my core beliefs. Maybe if you bang your head against your Obama poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again does not make it true or even interesting.


Maybe if you bang YOUR head against your Tea Party poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again (such as your hatred of Obama and anything remotely liberal) does not make it true or even interesting.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The VA killed my father! He had Parkinson's Disease. They had him on way too many drugs and was suffering side effects. So what did they do? They put him on another drug! This drug was contraindicated for anyone over 50 and anyone with Parkinson's. First, he broke out in hives. Then he became psychotic. After a nightmarish night, we were able to get him to the ER. The prescribing doctor insisted that he didn't have hives and even though the drug caused him to be psychotic, he needed it. I argued with him but my mother shushed me and said we had to do what the doctor said. The next day, he went into a coma. Another doctor entered the case and said he shouldn't have been given that drug and all of his problems were because he was on too many drugs in the first place. They put him on a "drug holiday" (no drugs at all) and he woke up a week later. He had to have lots of therapy just to sit up and walk after that. He recovered from that. But a couple of years later, they'd given him a drug that caused his esophagus to hemorrhage. They tried to tell me the hemorrhage was caused by alcoholism. I told them my father had never drank a drop, as long as I'd known him! (My mother was an alcoholic but my father NEVER drank. EVER!) He ended up with sepsis from blood transfusions, and died. If he'd gone to a decent hospital, who knows? But my mother insisted upon the VA, even though they had good insurance!


Very sorry for the loss of your father. The d..n hospital/doctors should be sued on principle. There are well over 100,000 deaths/year from legally prescribed drugs in hospitals. This number is grossly under reported. Some estimates from reliable critics of the medical industry run as high as 1-2 million people/year killed by allopathic medicine!! That makes it the biggest cause of death in the US and kills more people than all the wars put together of this country. Viet Nam killed 58,000 American soldiers over a 10 yr period just to give some perspective. And most people with cancer died from the treatment, not the disease. Many medical people know that people with cancer would live a lot longer without the chemo and radiation. In health (not medical) circles, it is known there are many ways to work with cancer that actually cure.

The medical industry never cures--it is not their interest as only disease brings in the huge profits. This is just one reason for Single Payer Health care.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You must be the thick headed one to not 'get' that I don't lie, I am not thick headed (smart but not dense) and not rigid, just believe in not parsing words or be wishy washy about my core beliefs. Maybe if you bang your head against your Obama poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again does not make it true or even interesting.


It still remains TRUE that Designer1234 was not involved in wallpapering your holy thread. She tried to stop us from doing it.

You were the one who boringly brought it up in the first place, though your memory is undoubtedly poor. Just a few days ago you practically screamed at her for her involvement in an incident that she was pointedly avoiding.

I suppose she must have done something horrible and unforgivable to you people for you to seek every opportunity to castigate her, but you should at least choose the things she did, not the things she didn't do.

And if you actually were the wonderful Christian you pretend to be, you would have apologized the first time you were corrected.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Maybe if you bang YOUR head against your Tea Party poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again (such as your hatred of Obama and anything remotely liberal) does not make it true or even interesting.


DGreen
Bingo!!!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Maybe if you bang YOUR head against your Tea Party poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again (such as your hatred of Obama and anything remotely liberal) does not make it true or even interesting.


Oh my, must have hit a nerve since you have 'yell' your comments hoping that people will listen. Alas, not true. I do not belong to the Tea Party, and I am too smart to bang my head. Sighing, so turn your hearing aid up so I do not have to yell................I do not hate Obama. Just because I do not approve of policies, illegal executive orders.........does not equate to hatred. Have no idea why AOLW think if you disagree with Obama you hate him.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Oh my, must have hit a nerve since you have 'yell' your comments hoping that people will listen. Alas, not true. I do not belong to the Tea Party, and I am too smart to bang my head. Sighing, so turn your hearing aid up so I do not have to yell................I do not hate Obama. Just because I do not approve of policies, illegal executive orders.........does not equate to hatred. Have no idea why AOLW think if you disagree with Obama you hate him.


Yell? Get real.

Your repeated comments and criticism are a good indicator of your hatred - yes hatred - of Obama. Your supposed "Christianity" won't permit admitting it, but your words and constant harshness toward him tell a different story. Deny all you want. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh my, must have hit a nerve since you have 'yell' your comments hoping that people will listen. Alas, not true. I do not belong to the Tea Party, and I am too smart to bang my head. Sighing, so turn your hearing aid up so I do not have to yell................I do not hate Obama. Just because I do not approve of policies, illegal executive orders.........does not equate to hatred. Have no idea why AOLW think if you disagree with Obama you hate him.


I doubt that the COWs have any ideas at all.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh my, must have hit a nerve since you have 'yell' your comments hoping that people will listen. Alas, not true. I do not belong to the Tea Party, and I am too smart to bang my head. Sighing, so turn your hearing aid up so I do not have to yell................I do not hate Obama. Just because I do not approve of policies, illegal executive orders.........does not equate to hatred. Have no idea why AOLW think if you disagree with Obama you hate him.


Because you do? Hate him, that is. When one makes fun of physical characteristics, his wife, and his children, I would say that goes a little beyond his policies. You're too smart to bang your head? Coulda' fooled me.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think the British will eat anything. I'm sure I'd starve to death over there.


Now that brings pots and kettles to mind.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Wait. Shouldn't that be "You bet your _sweet_ body bag it will!"?


 :XD: Yes! I do apologise.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. KFN is obviously one of those food snobs who look down on British cuisine.
> 
> Hey, I'm one of them, too.


Many of my favourite foods are of British origin, particularly their deserts. Steamed self saucing puddings (sauce can be jam, maple syrup, butterscotch, treacle), with custard. OMG! Bread and Butter pudding, Spotted Dick. The list goes on...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Many of my favourite foods are of British origin, particularly their deserts. Steamed self saucing puddings (sauce can be jam, maple syrup, butterscotch, treacle), with custard. OMG! Bread and Butter pudding, Spotted Dick. The list goes on...


Treacle pudding is my favorite. We have a wonderful restaurant in the Village that serves British food and it is always packed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yell? Get real.
> 
> Your repeated comments and criticism are a good indicator of your hatred - yes hatred - of Obama. Your supposed "Christianity" won't permit admitting it, but your words and constant harshness toward him tell a different story. Deny all you want. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.


And if it moos like a COW - well, draw your own conclusion.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And if it moos like a COW - well, draw your own conclusion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Many of my favourite foods are of British origin, particularly their deserts. Steamed self saucing puddings (sauce can be jam, maple syrup, butterscotch, treacle), with custard. OMG! Bread and Butter pudding, Spotted Dick. The list goes on...


I hate to ask this in mixed company, but what the H is Spotted Dick?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Treacle pudding is my favorite. We have a wonderful restaurant in the Village that serves British food and it is always packed.


Really? A restaurant serving Brit food? What's it called?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You must be the thick headed one to not 'get' that I don't lie, I am not thick headed (smart but not dense) and not rigid, just believe in not parsing words or be wishy washy about my core beliefs. Maybe if you bang your head against your Obama poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again does not make it true or even interesting.


Nobody could accuse you of false modesty, even though you have a lot to be modest about.

BYBB


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I hate to ask this in mixed company, but what the H is Spotted Dick?


It is what the British call a "pudding" (closer to a cake, really & nothing like our pudding in the US) that has currants or raisins in it. Served, I think, with custard.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> they do? Since when?


How about Blood Pudding? Made of congealed pig's blood, lard, and oatmeal. Yummy?

Or...Spotted Dick, a suet (pastry from raw beef or mutton fat) pudding with raisens and other dried fruit, then cooked and canned.

Haggis, a savory pudding containing sheep's heart, liver and lungs, minced with onions, oatmeal, suet and spices and boiled in the animal's stomach!

Stargazy Pie, cooked with fish heads and tails sticking out of the pie!

Need I say more???


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How right you are about LTL. In joey's defense, I'd like to point out that that's not really her cat; it's a picture she found in which the cat was wearing Green Bay Packers colors. She must be a great football fan to think a cat in such an uncomfortable outfit is cute (or whatever she does think).
> 
> BTW, LTL has yet to acknowledge that she lied when she accused you of posting memes on D&P. This is my third time mentioning it; eventually it should get into her thick, rigid head.


I must have missed that about Joey's avatar. That does change my opini-n. It still makes me wonder why she chose it. However it is her choice -- I won't discuss the cat any more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> It is what the British call a "pudding" (closer to a cake, really & nothing like our pudding in the US) that has currants or raisins in it. Served, I think, with custard.


Aren't pudding and custard essentially the same?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

They are food heated with butter and jam. Also clotted cream is our whipped cream - I learned that in NEW Zealand.

It is used down under and up here too. I think I had it in 
Arizona - clotted cream may have thrown you off.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How about Blood Pudding? Made of congealed pig's blood, lard, and oatmeal. Yummy?
> 
> Or...Spotted Dick, a suet (pastry from raw beef or mutton fat) pudding with raisens and other dried fruit, then cooked and canned.
> 
> ...


Quick, find me a body bag. I'm going to hurl.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Quick, find me a body bag. I'm going to hurl.


We'll share!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yell? Get real.
> 
> Your repeated comments and criticism are a good indicator of your hatred - yes hatred - of Obama. Your supposed "Christianity" won't permit admitting it, but your words and constant harshness toward him tell a different story. Deny all you want. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, chances are, it's a duck.


I was told by someone from TP privately that she told a life long friend she would never have a friendship with her again because she dared to take her right to choose and voted the first time for President Obama. She dared to vote for him. How many others I wonder are that blinded by hatred. So blinded by hatred that they willl even give up other Church Friends for daring to vote for him. I will have to go back and look it up.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I was told by someone from TP privately that she told a life long friend she would never have a friendship with her again because she voted the first time for President Obama. Can't remember for sure who it was??? She dared to vote for him. How many others Iwonder are that blinded by hatred. I will have to go back and look it up.


Wow. Quite a "friend."


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You must be the thick headed one to not 'get' that I don't lie, I am not thick headed (smart but not dense) and not rigid, just believe in not parsing words or be wishy washy about my core beliefs. Maybe if you bang your head against your Obama poster more often, you will break up some concrete and understand that just because you boringly bring something up over and over again does not make it true or even interesting.


We don't accuse very many of hating him mainly you. Others believe what that have been told about him that is their right. The believe the garbage people like you spread like manure.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? A restaurant serving Brit food? What's it called?


"Tea and Sympathy" right in the Village. Might be nice to go there with Camacho.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> "Tea and Sympathy" right in the Village. Might be nice to go there with Camacho.


That's an idea. Any yarn nearby?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's an idea. Any yarn nearby?


http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=knittingsupplies&find_loc=Greenwich+Village%2C+Manhattan%2C+NY


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=knittingsupplies&find_loc=Greenwich+Village%2C+Manhattan%2C+NY


Okay. Lots of yarn downtown. But which is nearest to the restaurant?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> "Tea and Sympathy" right in the Village. Might be nice to go there with Camacho.


Be sure to try the Haggis or Blood Pudding! :XD: :XD: :XD:

Then I will have tea and sympathy!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Elf on a shelf. Hag in a bag. What a holiday!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like a disease to me.



Poor Purl said:


> I hate to ask this in mixed company, but what the H is Spotted Dick?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Out West it would be Empty.



Poor Purl said:


> Really? A restaurant serving Brit food? What's it called?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo. Bravo. Well put.



Poor Purl said:


> Nobody could accuse you of false modesty, even though you have a lot to be modest about.
> 
> BYBB


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think custard has eggs and pudding doesn't?



Poor Purl said:


> Aren't pudding and custard essentially the same?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Quick, find me a body bag. I'm going to hurl.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I think this proves that British cuisine is only for the British, an acquired taste like anchovies, kind of.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought friends were loyal and devoted. Talk about my way or the highway.



Designer1234 said:


> I was told by someone from TP privately that she told a life long friend she would never have a friendship with her again because she dared to take her right to choose and voted the first time for President Obama. She dared to vote for him. How many others I wonder are that blinded by hatred. So blinded by hatred that they willl even give up other Church Friends for daring to vote for him. I will have to go back and look it up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't forget to BYBB.



Poor Purl said:


> That's an idea. Any yarn nearby?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Sounds like a disease to me.


Reminds me of that old joke - Moby Dick is a social disease.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we can have their body bags delivered for doggie bags...or barf bags.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Be sure to try the Haggis or Blood Pudding! :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Then I will have tea and sympathy!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> And we can have their body bags delivered for doggie bags...or barf bags.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Actually the menu looks rather ordinary.

http://www.teaandsympathy.com/#!restaurant/cgej


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sounds like a disease to me.


To me, too.

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Out West it would be Empty.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bravo. Bravo. Well put.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you (bowing to the crowd).

The nerve of her saying she doesn't lie when I caught her in an obvious one.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Aren't pudding and custard essentially the same?


Puddings have custard poured over them before they are eaten. Puddings are generally boiled, in a cloth, or steamed. They can also be baked, similar to a cake.

Custard is made with custard powder and milk on the stove top, and you can also have a baked custard, made with eggs and milk, and vanilla essence and cooked in a bain maire, or dish of water, in the oven. The bain maire or dish of water keeps the temperature lower and allows the custard to cook slower and set properly.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Quick, find me a body bag. I'm going to hurl.


Why? good English grub and very tasty.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think custard has eggs and pudding doesn't?


Custards can have eggs, and they can also be cooked without eggs,using custard powder. Steamed or baked puddings can have eggs but most do not, they just have the mixed, dried fruit - currants, raising, sultanas.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Puddings have custard poured over them before they are eaten. Puddings are generally boiled, in a cloth, or steamed. They can also be baked, similar to a cake.
> 
> Custard is made with custard powder and milk on the stove top, and you can also have a baked custard, made with eggs and milk, and vanilla essence and cooked in a bain maire, or dish of water, in the oven. The bain maire or dish of water keeps the temperature lower and allows the custard to cook slower and set properly.


The ones in the pictures look delicious.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I mentioned that I like treacle pudding but what is a treacle? Is Aussie cuisine the same as British?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Spotted Dick
Cooking time
Prep:15 minsCook:1 hr, 30 mins
Skill level
Easy
Servings
Serves 6
Steam a traditional fruity sponge pudding with suet, citrus zest and currants then serve in thick slices with hot custard
Ingredients
	250g self-raising flour
	pinch of salt
	125g shredded suet
	180g currants
	80g caster sugar
	finely grated zest 1 lemon
	finely grated zest 1 small orange
	150ml whole milk, plus 2-3 tbsp
	custard, to serve
Method
1.	Put the flour and salt in a bowl. Add the suet, currants, sugar, lemon and orange zest.
2.	Pour in 150ml milk and mix to a firm but moist dough, adding the extra milk if necessary.
3.	Shape into a fat roll about 20cm long. Place on a large rectangle of baking parchment. Wrap loosely to allow for the pudding to rise and tie the ends with string like a Christmas cracker.
4.	Place a steamer over a large pan of boiling water, add the pudding to the steamer, cover and steam for 1 1/2 hours. Top up the pan with water from time to time.
5.	Remove from the steamer and allow to cool slightly before unwrapping. Serve sliced with custard.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sounds like a disease to me.


No, it is a very delicious pudding. I have just posted a picture of spotted dick pudding.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> I mentioned that I like treacle pudding but what is a treacle? Is Aussie cuisine the same as British?


When I was a child we ate typical British cuisine almost exclusively, with perhaps more salads than the British. Now we eat a more varied diet, with Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Indian, Sri Lankan, Thai, Italian. You name it, we eat it, we are now a multicultural nation, and have adopted the cuisine of many countries.
Treacle
Ingredients: cane sugar, water
Treacle has a richer colour than golden syrup, and a stronger, slightly bitter flavour.
It provides the strong sweet flavour necessary for many baking and confectionery recipes. A couple of spoonfuls of rich sticky treacle will add a distinctive colour and taste to your rich dark brown cakes and puddings.
CSR Original Treacle is available in an easy-to-use jar, which features a screw top lid, making it easy to hold and convenient to store.

Steamed Treacle Sponge Pudding
This recipe is taken from Delia Smith's Winter Collection. It has also appeared in Sainsbury's Magazine (Jan 1994).

Ingredients
1 tablespoon black treacle
3 tablespoons golden syrup

6 oz (175 g) self-raising flour

1 rounded teaspoon baking powder
6 oz (175 g) butter, softened

3 large eggs

6 oz (175 g) soft light brown sugar

To serve:
3 extra tablespoons golden syrup

custard or crème fraîche
You will also need a 2 pint (1.2 litre) pudding basin, well buttered, a large mixing bowl, greaseproof paper and foil measuring 16 in by 12 in (40 cm x 30 cm), some string and scissors.

Method
First of all butter the basin, then measure 3 tablespoons of golden syrup into it. Then take a large mixing bowl, sift the flour and baking powder into it, add the softened butter, eggs, sugar and black treacle.
Next, using an electric hand whisk (or a large fork and lots of elbow grease), beat the mixture for about 2 minutes until it's thoroughly blended.

Now spoon the mixture into the basin and level the top using the back of the tablespoon. Place the sheet of foil over the greaseproof paper, make a pleat in the centre, and place this, foil-side uppermost, on top of the pudding.

Pull it down the sides and tie the string, taking the string over the top and tying it on the other side to make yourself a handle for lifting.

Trim off the excess paper all the way round.
Now steam the pudding for 2 hours, checking the water level halfway through.

To serve, loosen the pudding all round using a palette knife, invert it on to a warmed plate, and pour an extra 3 tablespoons of syrup (warmed if you like) over the top before taking it to the table.

Serve with custard (see recipe below), or some well chilled crème fraîche.
Treacle Tart
	Ingredients
	Nutrition
 1 1/2 cups (225g) plain flour
 1/3 cup (50g) icing sugar
 125g unsalted butter, chilled, cut into small cubes
 1 egg
 400ml golden syrup
 100g fresh white breadcrumbs
 Grated zest and juice of 3 lemons
 Cream, to serve
	Method
1.	Step 1
Place flour and icing sugar in a food processor, whiz to combine, then add butter and process until mixture resembles fine breadcrumbs. Add egg and process until pastry forms a smooth ball. Cover with plastic wrap and chill in the fridge for 30 minutes.
2.	Step 2
Preheat the oven to 160°C.
3.	Step 3
Roll out pastry on a floured board and use to line a greased, 23cm loose-bottomed tart pan. Roll out excess pastry into a long piece and cut into strips with a crinkle pastry cutter to make the lattice-effect on top.
4.	Step 4
Place golden syrup in a pan over low heat to warm through, add remaining ingredients, then stir to combine. Pour into tart shell and decorate with pastry lattice. Bake for 45 minutes to 1 hour until set. Serve with cream.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually the menu looks rather ordinary.
> 
> http://www.teaandsympathy.com/#!restaurant/cgej


The American version of British food?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Because you do? Hate him, that is. When one makes fun of physical characteristics, his wife, and his children, I would say that goes a little beyond his policies. You're too smart to bang your head? Coulda' fooled me.


Well, that is a false statement. I never made fun of his physical characteristics or his children And I did find Michelle's tights showing her cellulite and thong pretty funny, and her school lunch policy is wrong for a lot of students (athletes...). But other than that I did not do what you falsely accused me of doing. You either have me confused with someone else you hate or you choose to lump everyone you hate into a large group. If you disagree with me, fine, just be sure that you have your facts correct.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Due to time differences, I wasnt able to join in earlier, but here is a quick class in British food.

Dear KFN: did you Google terrible British food for that daft list? None of the things you mentioned are widely eaten, and two at least are very regional. I have eaten haggis and black pudding and managed to survive. As they say, dont knock it Star Gazey Pie does sound like an abomination, but it belongs to a very small part of Cornwall, and most people know that Cornwall isnt really part of England.

Puddings: the word has two meanings. The first meaning is dessert: Whats for pudding? Its the bit that comes after the main course. It could be a fruit pie, crumble, rice pudding or simply fruit and cream.

The specific meaning of pudding is something made (usually) with flour, eggs, butter and other flavourings (fruit, chocolate etc). It is then steamed or baked and served, yes, with custard. What is the American obsession with custard? Is it a funny word or something? Anyway, there are two kinds of custard. There is a runny one that is poured over said pudding (see above), which is also known as crème anglaise. Most people make this with custard powder (from a tin) and milk. It can also be made the old way with egg yolks, vanilla and milk. That is one kind of custard.

The other kind is baked custard. This is a beaten mixture of eggs and milk that is put in a baking tin and baked until it is just set. Nutmeg is often sprinkled over the top. My mother used to make a lovely one with a pastry base.

I do realise that British cuisine is something of an oxymoron in the wider world, but this is what Many British people eat these days. See if you can guess where they originated:

Sugary breakfast cereal
Stuffed-crust pizza
Burgers
KFC

We are not yet the fattest country in the world, but we really are doing our best to catch up, and thanks to lovely American imports I'm confident we can achieve it.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I forgot the cream workshop. There is single cream, double cream, sterilised cream and clotted cream.

Single cream is the thin stuff. I don't go near it.

Double cream is the stuff that can be whipped if you feel the need, or poured into and on to stuff. I put it in coffee and on fruit and puddings (see puddings above).

Clotted cream is made in the SW (Devon and Cornwall) from whole milk. It's heated up and left to cool down. When it cools down it has a sort of crust on it. It has a different taste from double cream - it's very, very fatty. It goes on scones mostly, for a cream tea, although I have put it on just about every pudding (both kinds - see above) just to see what it's like. It works for me.

Sterilised cream (or "sterry") can still be seen in shops. It's the stuff that came in tins in the olden days before we had lots of refrigeration. It tasted mostly of fat, but not in a nice way.

I am not going to give space to that vile stuff that comes in squirty tins.

Do bear in mind that I shall be asking questions on the topics I have covered today, so please revise puddings, custard and cream. Thank you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Due to time differences, I wasnt able to join in earlier, but here is a quick class in British food.
> 
> Dear KFN: did you Google terrible British food for that daft list? None of the things you mentioned are widely eaten, and two at least are very regional. I have eaten haggis and black pudding and managed to survive. As they say, dont knock it Star Gazey Pie does sound like an abomination, but it belongs to a very small part of Cornwall, and most people know that Cornwall isnt really part of England.
> 
> ...


IMO, based upon much research, the reason Americans are fat is not because we're eating fried chicken, pizza and sugared cereal everyday. It's because we've allowed the chemical companies to genetically alter our food supply. Great Britain would be wise to pay attention to this and keep GMOs out. Research is being done with animals, all over the world. It's shown that GMOs cause obesity, cancer and a whole host of other problems. We've also got the chemical companies trying to put aspartame in everything, even our milk! Aspartame is a low calorie sweetener but research shows that using it causes people to feel more hungry and to eat more food, thus causing weight gain rather than weight loss. In countries where people are the leanest, they have banned GMO crops and have banned GMO imports. They're the smart ones! The chemical companies have bought off our politicians, so while we get sicker and fatter, no one will stand up to them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I forgot the cream workshop. There is single cream, double cream, sterilised cream and clotted cream.
> 
> Single cream is the thin stuff. I don't go near it.
> 
> ...


It's funny to hear the differences in cultures. What you describe as pudding, we would call a cake. And we wouldn't cook it in a basin because a basin is considered to be a sink! Puddings and custards are very similar here, puddings are cooked on the stove in a pan, with cornstarch, sugar, milk, egg yolks and vanilla (or other flavorings). Custard is similar but is baked in the oven. I'm wondering if your treacle is our molasses? I don't know. But we never " whiz" our food, because that would mean we were peeing on it! :wink:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's funny to hear the differences in cultures. What you describe as pudding, we would call a cake. And we wouldn't cook it in a basin because a basin is considered to be a sink! Puddings and custards are very similar here, puddings are cooked on the stove in a pan, with cornstarch, sugar, milk, egg yolks and vanilla (or other flavorings). Custard is similar but is baked in the oven. I'm wondering if your treacle is our molasses? I don't know. But we never " whiz" our food, because that would mean we were peeing on it! :wink:


We used to say "Molasses is the thickest and darkest and least purified, followed by treacle, then golden syrup.

Molasses, or black treacle, is a viscous by-product of the refining of sugarcane or sugar beets into sugar. The word comes from the Portuguese melaço, ultimately derived from mel, the Portuguese and Latin word for "honey". Wikipedia

Treacle has a richer colour than golden syrup, and a stronger, slightly bitter flavour.
It provides the strong sweet flavour necessary for many baking and confectionery recipes. A couple of spoonfuls of rich sticky treacle will add a distinctive colour and taste to your rich dark brown cakes and puddings

Golden syrup is a thick, amber-coloured form of inverted sugar syrup, made in the process of refining sugar cane or sugar beet juice into sugar, or by treatment of a sugar solution with acid. It is used in a variety of baking recipes and desserts. Wikipedia

Molases can also be used as stock food for beef cattle.
When the quantity and quality of available feed becomes low, an energy source (as well as protein) is required. Molasses can be a cost effective energy source but is low in protein.
Research and grazier experience has shown that molasses fed in open troughs with added protein can be used successfully for drought feeding of cattle. Molasses lends itself to bulk handling methods suitable for drought feeding large numbers of stock.

Golden syrup is also great spread of fresh buttered bread. We often had a golden syrup sandwish after school.

I have also heard that one of the major problems with the weight increase over the past 50 years is due to the increased use of sweetener derived from corn. The USA had to turn to other sources for their sweeteners when they placed an embargo on the importation of cane sugar from Cuba.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Things are heating up in the kitchen here. Thanks for the info. The British restaurant is run by Brits.

Why isn't Cornwell considered a part of England? It looks great on Doc Martin.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> We used to say "Molasses is the thickest and darkest and least purified, followed by treacle, then golden syrup.
> 
> Molasses, or black treacle, is a viscous by-product of the refining of sugarcane or sugar beets into sugar. The word comes from the Portuguese melaço, ultimately derived from mel, the Portuguese and Latin word for "honey". Wikipedia
> 
> ...


We've both light and dark molasses. We've also got clear, light and dark corn syrups. I don't use corn syrup in cooking or baking but it is in many convenience foods. Here in the US, we get a lot of our sugar from home grown sugar beets. Both the corn and sugar beets are almost all genetically modified. We've not seen large numbers of obesity for the last 50 years. Its only been in recent decades with the advent of GMOs, that we've had huge increases in obesity. I think that GMOs affect different people differently. But we've had a huge increase in obesity.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Wow. Quite a "friend."


This demonstrates the cultist nature of the TP thinking!


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay. Lots of yarn downtown. But which is nearest to the restaurant?


Lionbrand is on W.16 st off 6th Avenue. If you never went there, you might like it. Lots of room to move around, computers for pattern searches, good service--at least it was this way when last there about 2 yrs ago.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Puddings have custard poured over them before they are eaten. Puddings are generally boiled, in a cloth, or steamed. They can also be baked, similar to a cake.
> 
> Custard is made with custard powder and milk on the stove top, and you can also have a baked custard, made with eggs and milk, and vanilla essence and cooked in a bain maire, or dish of water, in the oven. The bain maire or dish of water keeps the temperature lower and allows the custard to cook slower and set properly.


It is like Flan which is a national dessert in Latin countries. Flan often has rum added to it for flavor.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I think this proves that British cuisine is only for the British, an acquired taste like anchovies, kind of.


Come now. Isn't this a bit ethnocentric? I do think traditional English cuisine is fairly bland but that was due to what was grown and available--as with most countries. I find it fascinating to study how people used their foodstuff to best and creative advantage. What is described here by some is a cuisine that was very frugal, wasting nothing. And think about what people ate during times of scarcity in the US as in the Depression. Organ meats were highly prized as they were cheap, often being sold as 'cat' food. The idea of eating brain or tongue turns me off, but I also gave up meat decades ago. These foods are now expensive delicacies here.

BTW, the Brits did totally embrace Indian cuisine which they learned when occupying India and I understand there are many excellent Indian restaurants in England telling us that they do like highly flavored food over there.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How about Blood Pudding? Made of congealed pig's blood, lard, and oatmeal. Yummy?
> 
> Or...Spotted Dick, a suet (pastry from raw beef or mutton fat) pudding with raisens and other dried fruit, then cooked and canned.
> 
> ...


Knitter from Nebraska
it sounds like you have never been in a popular International Market and it isn't just Brits shopping there. I bet there is nothing the Brits eat that does not get eaten here. Variety is the spice of life.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

tamarque said:


> It is like Flan which is a national dessert in Latin countries. Flan often has rum added to it for flavor.


tamarque
Flan is a staple here, served with caramel sauce.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Due to time differences, I wasnt able to join in earlier, but here is a quick class in British food.
> 
> Dear KFN: did you Google terrible British food for that daft list? None of the things you mentioned are widely eaten, and two at least are very regional. I have eaten haggis and black pudding and managed to survive. As they say, dont knock it Star Gazey Pie does sound like an abomination, but it belongs to a very small part of Cornwall, and most people know that Cornwall isnt really part of England.
> 
> ...


With that diet, you are well on your way! The health stats from the UK, which I often do read, are increasing with the same disease states as in the US and for the same crappy reasons. Too many drugs (legal), too many processed foods, too many vaccines (altho there is still some freedom of choice over there), not enough vegetables both cooked and raw, etc. Too bad that the US exports disaster so well.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We've both light and dark molasses. We've also got clear, light and dark corn syrups. I don't use corn syrup in cooking or baking but it is in many convenience foods. Here in the US, we get a lot of our sugar from home grown sugar beets. Both the corn and sugar beets are almost all genetically modified. We've not seen large numbers of obesity for the last 50 years. Its only been in recent decades with the advent of GMOs, that we've had huge increases in obesity. I think that GMOs affect different people differently. But we've had a huge increase in obesity.


Only partially true. HFCS has been a major culprit in diabetes and weight gain. Also many chemicals in the environment and food are endocrine disrupters and affect weight gain. Add the destruction of thyroid function. But GMO's are one of the most nefarious drugs (yes, they are chemicals and drug like in the body), and have garnered major attention letting other toxins become pushed to the back burner of health concerns.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> We used to say "Molasses is the thickest and darkest and least purified, followed by treacle, then golden syrup.
> 
> Molasses, or black treacle, is a viscous by-product of the refining of sugarcane or sugar beets into sugar. The word comes from the Portuguese melaço, ultimately derived from mel, the Portuguese and Latin word for "honey". Wikipedia
> 
> ...


Just noticed this last paragraph of your post. The issue is more the push for mono-cultures in agricultures. Corn can be grown in the US but not sugar and it is much cheaper to grow. Corn is processed into more hidden food things than you can count. It is even used to make our vitamin supplements. So buyer beware if you are trying to avoid GMOs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Spotted Dick
> Cooking time
> Prep:15 minsCook:1 hr, 30 mins
> Skill level
> ...


It looks nice, but isn't suet another name for meat fat? Sounds like an odd ingredient to me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well, that is a false statement. I never made fun of his physical characteristics or his children And I did find Michelle's tights showing her cellulite and thong pretty funny, and her school lunch policy is wrong for a lot of students (athletes...). But other than that I did not do what you falsely accused me of doing. You either have me confused with someone else you hate or you choose to lump everyone you hate into a large group. If you disagree with me, fine, *just be sure that you have your facts correct.*


Speaking of having facts correct, when will you admit that Designer _was not_ one of the people posting memes and cartoons on D&P?

I won't even ask when you'll apologize, because I know apologies are against your religion (not Catholicism, but your own personal take on it).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Due to time differences, I wasnt able to join in earlier, but here is a quick class in British food.
> 
> Dear KFN: did you Google terrible British food for that daft list? None of the things you mentioned are widely eaten, and two at least are very regional. I have eaten haggis and black pudding and managed to survive. As they say, dont knock it Star Gazey Pie does sound like an abomination, but it belongs to a very small part of Cornwall, and most people know that Cornwall isnt really part of England.
> 
> ...


Apparently you're unfamiliar with frozen custard, which is often the only way Americans see it. It's like very soft ice cream, without the enjoyment or guilt.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> Lionbrand is on W.16 st off 6th Avenue. If you never went there, you might like it. Lots of room to move around, computers for pattern searches, good service--at least it was this way when last there about 2 yrs ago.


15th between 6th and 5th Ave. Service is best for collecting your money.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently you're unfamiliar with frozen custard, which is often the only way Americans see it. It's like very soft ice cream, without the enjoyment or guilt.


You're right, I have never come across frozen custard, and it doesn't sound as though I've missed much.

Apropos unhealthy foods, my parents ate lots of saturated animal fats, eggs, fresh vegetables and smaller amounts of free-range meat. They grew up in the 1920s and were not well off by any standards. They blamed ill health and obesity on modern convenience foods, which seems pretty much to be the consensus these days. Medical research seems to look a bit more favourably on animal fat and eggs these days. I certainly do. The first tweak I made to my husband's diet was to throw out all spreads except butter, and all oils except extra-virgin olive and coconut.

I have always taught my children to buy foods with only one ingredient where possible, and it seems a good policy.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Suet can be used for both sweet and savoury steamed puddings. It makes a lovely light pastry, as does a certain amount of lard.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It looks nice, but isn't suet another name for meat fat? Sounds like an odd ingredient to me.


Suet make the best pasty, whether is be sweet or savory pastry.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Aren't pudding and custard essentially the same?


No, custard is made with eggs, and pudding isn't.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently you're unfamiliar with frozen custard, which is often the only way Americans see it. It's like very soft ice cream, without the enjoyment or guilt.


I had not heard of frozen custard so did a quick net scan and came up with the following information.

Frozen custard was invented in Coney Island, New York in 1919, when ice cream vendors Archie and Elton Kohr found that adding egg yolks to ice cream created a smoother texture and helped the ice cream stay cold longer. In their first weekend on the boardwalk, they sold 18,460 cones.

I will have to check to see if it is available in Oz.

Nope, seems it is available in Canberra and New South Wales but we Sandgropers would have to travel over there to enjoy the pleasures of frozen custard. Sorry, but the parking fees at Perth Airport are just too high, and then there is all that time waiting around in the departure lounge, not to mention the time spent in the air. I think I will give it a miss. 4 hours 36 minutes flight time each way, plus nearly $700 in return air fares, and add to that the cost of an overnight stay at a motel because I do not think I could fly over to Sydney, grab a taxi to the city, buy the frozen ice cream, eat it, and then make it back to the airport for a return flight of 4 hours and 36 minutes flight home. I will let you enjoy the pleasures of this delicacy. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Geez, I leave for a few days and come back to "Spotted Dick" and Treacle. The names sound like STD's.
My future son in law gave me a mega cold for Christmas. Gotta love that...not!
So how many do we have for the New York trip?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Geez, I leave for a few days and come back to "Spotted Dick" and Treacle. The names sound like STD's.
> My future son in law gave me a mega cold for Christmas. Gotta love that...not!
> So how many do we have for the New York trip?


Yes, they are STD ...... super tasty delights. Don't knock it until you try it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, they are STD ...... super tasty delights. Don't knock it until you try it.


Actually, I did google them. They look nice and tasty.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Well, that is a false statement. I never made fun of his physical characteristics or his children And I did find Michelle's tights showing her cellulite and thong pretty funny, and her school lunch policy is wrong for a lot of students (athletes...). But other than that I did not do what you falsely accused me of doing. You either have me confused with someone else you hate or you choose to lump everyone you hate into a large group. If you disagree with me, fine, just be sure that you have your facts correct.


lovethelake
you are jealous of the First Lady, aren't you. No answer required, I know it already, can recite it in my sleep.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently you're unfamiliar with frozen custard, which is often the only way Americans see it. It's like very soft ice cream, without the enjoyment or guilt.


It is a soft ice cream and still has lots of sugar. And while maybe made with real ingredients way back when, the current morph is not, just like most ice cream on the market. Why not guilt???


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I had not heard of frozen custard so did a quick net scan and came up with the following information.
> 
> Frozen custard was invented in Coney Island, New York in 1919, when ice cream vendors Archie and Elton Kohr found that adding egg yolks to ice cream created a smoother texture and helped the ice cream stay cold longer. In their first weekend on the boardwalk, they sold 18,460 cones.
> 
> ...


By the time you got yours, it would probably have melted anyway.

Besides, I've never seen it in any flavor but vanilla, not my favorite.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

tamarque said:


> It is a soft ice cream and still has lots of sugar. And while maybe made with real ingredients way back when, the current morph is not, just like most ice cream on the market. Why not guilt???


Less fatty, I think. Real ice cream is made with cream, or at least whole milk. I have no idea what frozen custard is made with, or even for.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Geez, I leave for a few days and come back to "Spotted Dick" and Treacle. The names sound like STD's.
> My future son in law gave me a mega cold for Christmas. Gotta love that...not!
> So how many do we have for the New York trip?


We decided to make this a "Things are cooling down" thread.

I think Spotted Dick is an STD. Not treacle. That's a urinary tract problem or else a bladder problem. Depends.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> You're right, I have never come across frozen custard, and it doesn't sound as though I've missed much.
> 
> Apropos unhealthy foods, my parents ate lots of saturated animal fats, eggs, fresh vegetables and smaller amounts of free-range meat. They grew up in the 1920s and were not well off by any standards. They blamed ill health and obesity on modern convenience foods, which seems pretty much to be the consensus these days. Medical research seems to look a bit more favourably on animal fat and eggs these days. I certainly do. The first tweak I made to my husband's diet was to throw out all spreads except butter, and all oils except extra-virgin olive and coconut.
> 
> I have always taught my children to buy foods with only one ingredient where possible, and it seems a good policy.


People who lived on farms or in the country had a much easier time eating healthy while being poor. They not only grew food, but saved seeds (another money saver) and they could forage for wild greens, herbs, fruit, nuts and hunt.

The issue of saturated fats was a real example of industry callousness toward people. While processed, hydrogenated fats were known to be harmful, the industry simply decided that saturated fats looked the same and thru them into the information mix. No research that I have heard of back then to say different. However, since people had access to saturated fats but the industry was pushing things like corn oil, there was every effort being made to make the public dependent on manufactured foods. So fear mongering of saturated fats was employed and still is today with much harm to people's health. The whole cholesterol thing is part of the myth against saturated fats, too.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Less fatty, I think. Real ice cream is made with cream, or at least whole milk. I have no idea what frozen custard is made with, or even for.


Made with healthy fats means less sugar can be used, so less calories actually. Sugar is increased for flavor when they remove the fats. That is what is done with ice cream. There are recipes online for frozen custard.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Geez, I leave for a few days and come back to "Spotted Dick" and Treacle. The names sound like STD's.
> My future son in law gave me a mega cold for Christmas. Gotta love that...not!
> So how many do we have for the New York trip?


Is there a NY trip? The City I assume?

Try mega Vit D3 (50,000 iu/daily) and mega-Vit C (10-30 gr/daily) to get rid of the cold. If interested PM me/


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Speaking of having facts correct, when will you admit that Designer _was not_ one of the people posting memes and cartoons on D&P?
> 
> I won't even ask when you'll apologize, because I know apologies are against your religion (not Catholicism, but your own personal take on it).


You do not have to edit my post, my young eyes are fine and do not need bold print to read.

I never said she posted pictures that were offensive, I said she acted like a lemming and encouraged and approved of the postings that she knew would hurt others. Never once did she (or any other AOLW) tell 'their group' to stop posting things that were knowing hurting people who were caught in the vicious crossfire to get at a few. Many innocent ladies were hurt by postings that they had no idea why someone would do that to their thread. So for Designer to come to D & P to wish people a Merry Christmas without apologizing or accepting responsibility for the pain she and others caused was hollow and just plain rude. She and other AOLW may believe that saying Merry Christmas to the women (and gentleman) on D&P will make things better is just insane thinking. One can forgive, but forgiveness does not mean that a person(s) forgets the pain and should not. To forget is to open one's self to be a target again, which is just stupid. If one really understands the story of Jesus and turning the other cheek, one would realize that it is a form of passive resistance because when one turns the other cheek that way it is almost impossible for a right-handed person to strike that cheek. So one is dared to strike back, but they know that it won't be affective. Interesting.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> No, custard is made with eggs, and pudding isn't.


sumpleby
not that it matters, but lots of Puddings are made with Eggs.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Geez, I leave for a few days and come back to "Spotted Dick" and Treacle. The names sound like STD's.
> My future son in law gave me a mega cold for Christmas. Gotta love that...not!
> So how many do we have for the New York trip?


Can you come in? That would be wonderful.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You do not have to edit my post, my young eyes are fine and do not need bold print to read.
> 
> I never said she posted pictures that were offensive, I said she acted like a lemming and encouraged and approved of the postings that she knew would hurt others. Never once did she (or any other AOLW) tell 'their group' to stop posting things that were knowing hurting people who were caught in the vicious crossfire to get at a few. Many innocent ladies were hurt by postings that they had no idea why someone would do that to their thread. So for Designer to come to D & P to wish people a Merry Christmas without apologizing or accepting responsibility for the pain she and others caused was hollow and just plain rude. She and other AOLW may believe that saying Merry Christmas to the women (and gentleman) on D&P will make things better is just insane thinking. One can forgive, but forgiveness does not mean that a person(s) forgets the pain and should not. To forget is to open one's self to be a target again, which is just stupid. If one really understands the story of Jesus and turning the other cheek, one would realize that it is a form of passive resistance because when one turns the other cheek that way it is almost impossible for a right-handed person to strike that cheek. So one is dared to strike back, but they know that it won't be affective. Interesting.


lovethelake
we get, we get it. You will never stretch out a hand for the sake of Peace. We have known that all along, you underlining it is really not necessary. HAPPY NEW YEAR. Huck


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> People who lived on farms or in the country had a much easier time eating healthy while being poor. They not only grew food, but saved seeds (another money saver) and they could forage for wild greens, herbs, fruit, nuts and hunt.
> 
> The issue of saturated fats was a real example of industry callousness toward people. While processed, hydrogenated fats were known to be harmful, the industry simply decided that saturated fats looked the same and thru them into the information mix. No research that I have heard of back then to say different. However, since people had access to saturated fats but the industry was pushing things like corn oil, there was every effort being made to make the public dependent on manufactured foods. So fear mongering of saturated fats was employed and still is today with much harm to people's health. The whole cholesterol thing is part of the myth against saturated fats, too.


Elaborate more on the non-link between saturated fat and cholesterol. I just read an article that claimed what you claim.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> Is there a NY trip? The City I assume?
> 
> Try mega Vit D3 (50,000 iu/daily) and mega-Vit C (10-30 gr/daily) to get rid of the cold. If interested PM me/


Yeah. Can you come downstate to see us? PP, Camacho, The Brat (?) and you on January 16ish. How far up are you? I used to live in Irvington New York. PM if you want more info.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> You do not have to edit my post, my young eyes are fine and do not need bold print to read.
> 
> I never said she posted pictures that were offensive, I said she acted like a lemming and encouraged and approved of the postings that she knew would hurt others. Never once did she (or any other AOLW) tell 'their group' to stop posting things that were knowing hurting people who were caught in the vicious crossfire to get at a few. Many innocent ladies were hurt by postings that they had no idea why someone would do that to their thread. So for Designer to come to D & P to wish people a Merry Christmas without apologizing or accepting responsibility for the pain she and others caused was hollow and just plain rude. She and other AOLW may believe that saying Merry Christmas to the women (and gentleman) on D&P will make things better is just insane thinking. One can forgive, but forgiveness does not mean that a person(s) forgets the pain and should not. To forget is to open one's self to be a target again, which is just stupid. If one really understands the story of Jesus and turning the other cheek, one would realize that it is a form of passive resistance because when one turns the other cheek that way it is almost impossible for a right-handed person to strike that cheek. So one is dared to strike back, but they know that it won't be affective. Interesting.


I think that Designer should be the one to pursue this as it dealt with her. I think Lakes is trying to be reasonable. Plus the incident happened awhile ago and peace has been established so let us move on to new things.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> By the time you got yours, it would probably have melted anyway.
> 
> Besides, I've never seen it in any flavor but vanilla, not my favorite.


I seem to recall chocolate, and maybe strawberry?????


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yeah. Can you come downstate to see us? PP, Camacho, The Brat (?) and you on January 16ish. How far up are you? I used to live in Irvington New York. PM if you want more info.


Sounds like a fun outing. 
Is that a Friday? I might be able to do that.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> Sounds like a fun outing.
> Is that a Friday? I might be able to do that.


yes it sure is. Keep in touch with PP, also, as we get closer to the date. It would be great to meet you.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I have not been tuning in much so please translate AOLW and D & P please. I do gather that conversation has turned toward simpler pleasantries, that can be good. Custard is definitely better than some of the other more emotional talk.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Can you come in? That would be wonderful.


I am checking flights and hotel. Where in Manhattan will we be?
Upper/Lower East side? West side? Canarsie? Oh wait, Canarsie is Brooklyn


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> I have not been tuning in much so please translate AOLW and D & P please. I do gather that conversation has turned toward simpler pleasantries, that can be good. Custard is definitely better than some of the other more emotional talk.


According to lovethelake AOLW means "angry old liberal women".
D&P is for "FF Wearing Denim &Pearls" thread here in Chit Chat.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Is there a NY trip? The City I assume?
> 
> Try mega Vit D3 (50,000 iu/daily) and mega-Vit C (10-30 gr/daily) to get rid of the cold. If interested PM me/


Thanks tamarque. I am taking extra C. I take the D3 2,000iu. Guess I need to amp it up.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Elaborate more on the non-link between saturated fat and cholesterol. I just read an article that claimed what you claim.


There is quite a bit of info on saturated fats being healthy vs hydrogenated fats which are dangerous to our health. These fats have very different chemical structures and work in different ways in the body. Two sources that I often read are Mercola.com and GreenMedicine (Sayer Ji). There are others, too, but these are sites with massive libraries and good references provided.

Here is one article from Mercola's site: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/07/27/saturated-fat-cholesterol.aspx

He is also good having life interviews on many topics with varied 'experts' in given fields of study and practice. Many articles on this topic on his site for you to explore.

There is a growing community of holistic health people that do a lot of work online. They also seem to like creating webinars with varied experts. Ocean and John Robbins are 2 of them. They all agree with the issue of the need for more fat in our diet. Mercola has been saying we should have 30-50% of our diet of good fats. One thing for sure is when you eat food with more fat, good fat, you have less craving for carbs. And this actually results in losing weight. Also the heart disease connection and cholesterol/fats is proving more and more a bogus argument designed to keep people sick, running to the medical industry for drugs and other useless/dangerous protocols. Let me leave this here for now.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am checking flights and hotel. Where in Manhattan will we be?
> Upper/Lower East side? West side? Canarsie? Oh wait, Canarsie is Brooklyn


PM PP for info. Yay!


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