# Does anyone agree with me?



## Bramleygal (Jan 30, 2011)

First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


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## Bramleygal (Jan 30, 2011)

OK. I hear ya!


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## Anna Nother nitwit (Jun 8, 2011)

If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


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## Bramleygal (Jan 30, 2011)

No, but I assume.


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## Anna Nother nitwit (Jun 8, 2011)

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm with the others... if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Nah! No comment-----the less said the better.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

Why would you even want to bring it up?


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## Ranger (Apr 26, 2012)

Agreed, can't say anything nice about them.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: LOL :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Raybo (Mar 12, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> No, but I assume.


Never assume :XD:


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## angelmaddy (Dec 13, 2012)

I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


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## dragonswing (Feb 18, 2014)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm with the others... if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.


Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


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## Charlotte80 (Jan 24, 2011)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


I agree, mine either.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.

That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?

So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


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## JuneS (Nov 3, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


No, but in eight years he did a good job of making it worse.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I'll say it! Why are we paying for their personal vacations?!? Ok, I can see paying for the secret service agents to protect them. But beyond that? Will the government pay for MY vacation?


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

I pretty much agree with you, Bramleygal. But I seem to remember that their allowance pays for the whole trip. Then they reimburse any extra expense from their personal finances. I think this is how it's handled. I don't know for sure.


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## SherrySherry (Mar 1, 2014)

I like the man, too. I certainly don't agree that taxpayers should foot the bill for vacation trips. But look at our senators and reps. . . That being said, I also believe that as Americans who appreciate living in a democratic society, we have an obligation to support our duly elected president. He won't be there forever. And for you who have said "You don 't want my opinion," Thank you. You have made your opinion abundantly clear. I presume your meaning is that you do believe taxpayers should be paying for MIL's trip to China. But what does this have to do with knitting? Wouldn't it be nice to keep politics out of this forum?


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Grandma is the Nanny!


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## SherrySherry (Mar 1, 2014)

It took years and generations to make that mess.


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

Got nothin' here.


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## angelmaddy (Dec 13, 2012)

What about all the former Presidents, are you all trying to tell me they did nothing wrong. They took vacations, that we as taxpayers paid for. I can think of a lot of worse things than paying for their vacations. They deserve to vacation with their families also. And if MIL is considered a nanny, what's the problem. I also agree that Politics and Religion do not belong on social media sites or sites like this. Let's stick to the knitting. Enough said.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Ms Sue P (Mar 19, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


same here


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

SherrySherry said:


> It took years and generations to make that mess.


What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.

Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.

Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

As someone from UK I love the Obama family, but I know little about politics.


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## charliesaunt (Apr 22, 2011)

I was taught early on, "If you can't say something good, say nothing at all." Or as they say in the South "Well bless your heart".


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## Mercygirl76 (Dec 30, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


 :thumbup: you are so right. The girls' grandmother has lived with them since they moved to the White House and helps care for the girls --- in my opinion, a much better arrangement than a hired nanny. Shows true family values. Another one of the many reasons I am a staunch Obama supporter


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## SherrySherry (Mar 1, 2014)

But what does this have to do with knitting? Wouldn't it be nice to keep politics out of this forum?


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## SherrySherry (Mar 1, 2014)

I hate having to leave this forum because of these ugly and negative posts. It was fun until now. So long ladies.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.
> 
> Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)


 I agree


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## Stablebummom (Dec 5, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## babsbarb (Dec 23, 2012)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Butterfly1943 (May 26, 2011)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

I trust that he follows the rules whatever they may be when it comes to family members, but if the law allows him to take his entire family on vacation at the taxpayers' expense, I'm all for it. They all deserve some rest and recuperation from the stress in that house.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

Stablebummom said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
I stand behind Pres. Obama.


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## Alpaca Farmer (Jan 19, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> OK. I hear ya!


 :thumbup:


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## kittnitter (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh my, can't say anything either as agreement might be hard. As for the vote, where is the logic process. Shut off politics and look at the facts.


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


 :mrgreen: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


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## crosby (Jan 13, 2013)

LizAnne said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> I stand behind Pres. Obama.


Yes, me too, waaaay behind!


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## Fialka (Mar 4, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm with the others... if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.


 :thumbup: :lol: :thumbup: This is exactly, what I do with most of the posts here ! I'm very polite,- I know, -thank you ! :lol:


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


If they were paying for it themselves, that would be all over the news. Wonder why the news reporters were banned from this plane? First time in history that has happened. You would almost think they had (gasp) something to hide from the American Public!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


Great observation. We should give him credit especially because of the great obstacles he has faced by the bi-partisan people. And Obama has done it with grace.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.
> 
> Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)


====================
You are quite clear--no point in defending him. no DEBT from the war in Iraq that he inherited? Billions of dollars debt that it cost - no Debt???

I must have been reading different newspapers and watching different news up here. 
hmm- I imagine within the next couple of weeks it he will be held responsible for Russia invading the Crimea -- his fault - nothing to do with Putin. It will be blamed on the President. I am out of here. No point in answering - I won't be here.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


Haha


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

For future information, there is a section on Knitting Paradise called, "The Progressive Women's Forum." That is where you go to post political thoughts. "Main" is for knitting and crochet questions. Sometimes we get to responding on these political posts and our thoughts run away with us! We can give a bad impression to those who aren't interested in either our USA politics or our bad manners. After all, this is a worldwide forum and we don't want to drive our friends away. Just sayin'.....


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

I agree, I cannot say anything nice either!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Great observation. We should give him credit especially because of the great obstacles he has faced by the bi-partisan people. And Obama has done it with grace.


The whole world thinks that because a man is president, it means he can do 'whatever he wants to do.' This is so not true. If it were true, we would be living under a dictatorship not a democracy. Communist countries are a prime example of this. Look at the Korean leader who had his uncle murdered because he didn't like what his uncle said. Is this what you would rather have? Every president from Washington to Obama & future ones, has to do what he thinks is right & just. That's why they have 'advisors'. Each of them has also inherited the problems of the president before them that they need to try to fix in addition to the new ones that come his way. So tell me, was Tricky Dick right in the Watergate scandal? Is it fair that Congress can all vote themselves raises & then veto cost of living adjustments for John Q. Public?? George W was well aware of the threat to our great nation when the Twin Towers fell, yet he did NOTHING ahead of time to reinforce our security or safety. These men are human beings. You may not agree with them, but, at least respect the position of his office. When you walk in his shoes, deal with the things that go on behind closed doors that we don't know about, then it's ok to squawk about what he should or shouldn't do. Instead of holding a grudge for 8 years, why not do some community service & try to change your little corner of this great & wonderful country to what you would like it to be?


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

His mother watches the girls in the W.H. Mrs. O will have a packed schedule and I'm sure that her mil will be a welcome sight. I think he's doing a good job. He didn't start these problems--Inherited, Yes!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> For future information, there is a section on Knitting Paradise called, "The Progressive Women's Forum." That is where you go to post political thoughts. "Main" is for knitting and crochet questions. Sometimes we get to responding on these political posts and our thoughts run away with us! We can give a bad impression to those who aren't interested in either our USA politics or our bad manners. After all, this is a worldwide forum and we don't want to drive our friends away. Just sayin'.....


The section named General Chit Chat is appropriately named. Why does anyone have to go to a specified area to post their thoughts? We all have the choice of reading or not reading. What if I am not a 'progressive woman'? Why does a woman who has something to say have to be labeled 'progressive'? IMHO progressive is synonymous with highly opinionated & the 'my way or the highway' type of thinking. What if I just enjoy participating in general conversation? Take your own advice & go to the progressive woman's section & stay away from general chit chat if that's what you prefer.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


I'd like to say serves ya right but I won't. LOL


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Great observation. We should give him credit especially because of the great obstacles he has faced by the bi-partisan people. And Obama has done it with grace.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm with the others... if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.


Also, try not to be toooooooo bossy. Especially when you aren't the boss.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


If he couldn't finish it why start? Let someone else who could have.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


That was nice. LOL


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


So according to your logic, when she became a care giver she lost MIL and grandmother status?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I agree


I wouldn't boast about coming in behind Jimmy Carter for anything. LOL


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So according to your logic, when she became a care giver she lost MIL and grandmother status?


Did you READ my words or skim over them? I said 'their grandmother who is also their care taker' Where did I take her status away from her? The media did that!!!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Great observation. We should give him credit especially because of the great obstacles he has faced by the bi-partisan people. And Obama has done it with grace.


D

Does Michelle know about grace?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


Ok so is she or isn't she his MIL????


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> ====================
> You are quite clear--no point in defending him. no DEBT from the war in Iraq that he inherited? Billions of dollars debt that it cost - no Debt???
> 
> I must have been reading different newspapers and watching different news up here.
> hmm- I imagine within the next couple of weeks it he will be held responsible for Russia invading the Crimea -- his fault - nothing to do with Putin. It will be blamed on the President. I am out of here. No point in answering - I won't be here.


If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. What's wrong to hot in here?


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Ok so is she or isn't she his MIL????


I can see you are spoiling for an argument because you are nitpicking at what you want to see as opposed to what is in black & white. You also, more than likely hear what you chose to hear rather than what is said. You will not bait me.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> The whole world thinks that because a man is president, it means he can do 'whatever he wants to do.' This is so not true. If it were true, we would be living under a dictatorship not a democracy. Communist countries are a prime example of this. Look at the Korean leader who had his uncle murdered because he didn't like what his uncle said. Is this what you would rather have? Every president from Washington to Obama & future ones, has to do what he thinks is right & just. That's why they have 'advisors'. Each of them has also inherited the problems of the president before them that they need to try to fix in addition to the new ones that come his way. So tell me, was Tricky Dick right in the Watergate scandal? Is it fair that Congress can all vote themselves raises & then veto cost of living adjustments for John Q. Public?? George W was well aware of the threat to our great nation when the Twin Towers fell, yet he did NOTHING ahead of time to reinforce our security or safety. These men are human beings. You may not agree with them, but, at least respect the position of his office. When you walk in his shoes, deal with the things that go on behind closed doors that we don't know about, then it's ok to squawk about what he should or shouldn't do. Instead of holding a grudge for 8 years, why not do some community service & try to change your little corner of this great & wonderful country to what you would like it to be?


Community service and become another poor example of a POTUS? Nope I'll pass and hope others do too.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> I can see you are spoiling for an argument because you are nitpicking at what you want to see as opposed to what is in black & white. You also, more than likely hear what you chose to hear rather than what is said. You will not bait me.


Then why bother to tell me? Again is she or isn't she his MIL? Pretty straight forward question.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> I wouldn't boast about coming in behind Jimmy Carter for anything. LOL


Ha Ha. You got me laughing with this post and the next. Good to see ya Windy!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

mmorris said:


> His mother watches the girls in the W.H. Mrs. O will have a packed schedule and I'm sure that her mil will be a welcome sight. I think he's doing a good job. He didn't start these problems--Inherited, Yes!


I think if you research your comments, you'll ascertain it's not "HIS" mother watching the girls....."HIS" mother died in 1995. It"s "HER" mother. Also, note it's not "HER" mil, it's "HIS" mil.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I think if you research your comments, you'll ascertain it's not "HIS" mother watching the girls....."HIS" mother died in 1995. It"s "HER" mother. Also, note it's not "HER" mil, it's "HIS" mil.


Georgiegirl...I figured it was useless pointing out the obvious to anyone who claims to be so politically informed & politically supportive, so I didn't bother to say it. :-D


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. What's wrong to hot in here?


No - I don't agree with most of the posts and I am not interested in having another conversation with you -- Been there done that too many times - don't enjoy them so am not going to bother.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. You got me laughing with this post and the next. Good to see ya Windy!


Well, would you?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> No - I don't agree with most of the posts and I am not interested in having another conversation with you -- Been there done that too many times - don't enjoy them so am not going to bother.


Not the first time won't be the last. Kitchen too hot for you?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. You got me laughing with this post and the next. Good to see ya Windy!


Top o' the evening to ya.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I wouldn't boast about coming in behind Jimmy Carter for anything. LOL


Did you actually read the pic I posted? I kinda don't think you did.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Did you actually read the pic I posted? I kinda don't think you did.


Would that be a new experience for you?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I agree


Please point out what I missed.


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

Don't care one way or the other, but remember, this has been going on for many, many presidents and their families.


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## nrskrachet (Jun 7, 2013)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I wouldn't boast about coming in behind Jimmy Carter for anything. LOL


Wen you posted this it didn't seem as though you had read the part about him actually being last of all the presidents (which he is, imo). When this was on facebook a lot of people assumed that because it said he was fifth that it meant there were many behind him. But because of all the ties he actually came in last.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Wen you posted this it didn't seem as though you had read the part about him actually being last of all the presidents (which he is, imo). When this was on facebook a lot of people assumed that because it said he was fifth that it meant there were many behind him. But because of all the ties he actually came in last.


I did read it I saw the thing about 16 or so coming in second. I still wouldn't brag about being behind Jimmy Carter on anything. Should say he came in last. That would be better than saying he comes in behind JC. Obviously, you don't understand that dynamic.


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## grandmaof7 (Feb 6, 2011)

I have nothing nice to say so..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................!!!!!!!


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## talbotsetters (Dec 21, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


At first I thought you meant your own mother in law!! Was very confused... Now it seems you meant HIS! (In the UK, don't get US news...)


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

All Presidents pay for their own vacations, accommodations, entertainment, golf and other expenses. The government cost lies in the security. The travel and Secret Service expense is the same for all presidents. The Obamas are no different than the Bush's and their daughters. Michelle's mother lives with them, for the purpose of being with their daughters, when they are not. She is an unpaid nanny and part of their household and the Obamas pay for her expenses as well as their own. Staff, friends, family, news people and others, have always traveled with presidents and I have never heard accusations made about their vacations until the Obama administration. Why is that? I remember many trips abroad by the Bush daughters, but I don't remember accusations being made about them traveling on the public dime. Every president I can remember, golfed, but President Obama is the only one portrayed as golfing at government expense. Presidents don't have some kind of company expense account, like corporate executives. They pay their own personal expenses and the government pays for the Secret Service.


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## moritta (Sep 14, 2011)

Politics? Really? Not religion either. It is useless because there will be so many pages that few peple will read them. In those two subjects the majority of people are "Don't confuse me with facts; my mind is made up."


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

As a care giver, then surely she is is also on the pay roll, all benefits included, I have never been paid to look after my grandchildren.


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## Knitter forever (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm with you all,N.C..


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## cherylthompson (Feb 18, 2013)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


Or mine... :shock:


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## jdwilhelm (Dec 6, 2011)

It is not necessarily saying something that is not nice to comment on something you think is wrong. 20 years ago when the country had a great economy, this trip would have been overlooked. Today, there are former middle class families living in cars and getting food from churches, etc. so it gives the appearance of the first family spending money unwisely. Those in leadership should be examples, not cause gossip about what they do.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't bother me a bit. Taxpayers do not pay for the trip. I don't think it's my business.



Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

My opinion? Why should we be paying for any of them to travel yet again? Michelle Obama was not elected. Presidents' wives usually do not travel abroad except with their husbands. Children? Why? The Chinese invited Mrs. O, but why? To promote friendship? Ha. To promote US debt? It's all too bizarre.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It would be against the law, as I understand it, you may research it if think differently.



Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


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## Grandma M (Nov 18, 2011)

:hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you. This is a typical international response.

I know I'm walking into this, but I'll ask anyway.

Why the dislike of President Obama in the USA?

He ended the war in Iraq and Afganistan will be finished soon. Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are dead.

It's taken his terms so far, but the economy is coming back from the worst economic period since the Great Depression.

He passed the ACA providing for quality health benefits for those not covered previously.

All the while the Congress settled for gridlock and shutdown rather than work to make anything better.

I think it also reflects well on our nation that he is the first black President of the United States.



inishowen said:


> As someone from UK I love the Obama family, but I know little about politics.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mercygirl76 said:


> :thumbup: you are so right. The girls' grandmother has lived with them since they moved to the White House and helps care for the girls --- in my opinion, a much better arrangement than a hired nanny. Shows true family values. Another one of the many reasons I am a staunch Obama supporter


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is General Chit Chat. You may be happier avoiding this. Others enjoy it.



SherrySherry said:


> I hate having to leave this forum because of these ugly and negative posts. It was fun until now. So long ladies.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Great observation. We should give him credit especially because of the great obstacles he has faced by the bi-partisan people. And Obama has done it with grace.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


The MIL? What about the 70 staff?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Another intelligent international observation.



Designer1234 said:


> ====================
> You are quite clear--no point in defending him. no DEBT from the war in Iraq that he inherited? Billions of dollars debt that it cost - no Debt???
> 
> I must have been reading different newspapers and watching different news up here.
> hmm- I imagine within the next couple of weeks it he will be held responsible for Russia invading the Crimea -- his fault - nothing to do with Putin. It will be blamed on the President. I am out of here. No point in answering - I won't be here.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is General Chit Chat, perfectly appropriate for general topics.



mzmom1 said:


> For future information, there is a section on Knitting Paradise called, "The Progressive Women's Forum." That is where you go to post political thoughts. "Main" is for knitting and crochet questions. Sometimes we get to responding on these political posts and our thoughts run away with us! We can give a bad impression to those who aren't interested in either our USA politics or our bad manners. After all, this is a worldwide forum and we don't want to drive our friends away. Just sayin'.....


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo! Well put.



kneonknitter said:


> The whole world thinks that because a man is president, it means he can do 'whatever he wants to do.' This is so not true. If it were true, we would be living under a dictatorship not a democracy. Communist countries are a prime example of this. Look at the Korean leader who had his uncle murdered because he didn't like what his uncle said. Is this what you would rather have? Every president from Washington to Obama & future ones, has to do what he thinks is right & just. That's why they have 'advisors'. Each of them has also inherited the problems of the president before them that they need to try to fix in addition to the new ones that come his way. So tell me, was Tricky Dick right in the Watergate scandal? Is it fair that Congress can all vote themselves raises & then veto cost of living adjustments for John Q. Public?? George W was well aware of the threat to our great nation when the Twin Towers fell, yet he did NOTHING ahead of time to reinforce our security or safety. These men are human beings. You may not agree with them, but, at least respect the position of his office. When you walk in his shoes, deal with the things that go on behind closed doors that we don't know about, then it's ok to squawk about what he should or shouldn't do. Instead of holding a grudge for 8 years, why not do some community service & try to change your little corner of this great & wonderful country to what you would like it to be?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You just did. Why use such convoluted diction?



WindingRoad said:


> I'd like to say serves ya right but I won't. LOL


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Inappropriate comment without redeeming value. IMHO



WindingRoad said:


> Also, try not to be toooooooo bossy. Especially when you aren't the boss.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo kneonknitter. Well put.



kneonknitter said:


> I can see you are spoiling for an argument because you are nitpicking at what you want to see as opposed to what is in black & white. You also, more than likely hear what you chose to hear rather than what is said. You will not bait me.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

It is illegal to pay for extra guests with govt money EXCEPT if they actually serve a public interest for being there. And that has always raised questions with every politician who uses the public coffers for travel. Why single out Obama, except for the blatant racism that exists in this country.

As for Obama's track record? I worked for him on the first campaign and felt obliged to vote for him the second time around given the total insanity of the GOP candidate and that party's blatant social agenda. Both parties have followed the same political hegemonic tendencies for many years. Why people dislike him always amazes me since he has supported all the wars and military adventures the country can manage which has been the GOP agenda. 

And I always have to wonder about working/middle-class people who hate Obama and Democrats? Do people really think they will have more social security if it is privatized? Pure delusion. Have any of them actually read the GOP proposal to do this? It will limit the amount of annual profit on one hand, and then add additional costs to the public as they will then have to pay the brokers handling the accounts--which will be mandatory! Don't like mandatory medical insurance? Well, why would anyone like mandatory private stock broker accounts?

Presidents are not monolithic power bases which most people don't seem to get. They are figure heads of an administration which is subject to all kinds of power. Obama's biggest weakness is that he was never part of the 1% such as Bush and Cheney. That administration was the direct author of many of the political tendencies and policies. Obama is weakened by a weak-kneed Democratic party that is afraid to confront the insanity of the GOP and the power of the corporation. We truly live in a corporate state and that it totalitarian in nature, not democratic.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think history will treat President Obama very well. Opinion is clouded by what is going on in the United States right now. Lobbyist money's advertising and media influence bombards people with rumor and lies. Sadly, many people don't seem to have the critical thinking skills to think for themselves. History will see President Obama differently than they do. IMO



SometimesaKnitter said:


> Wen you posted this it didn't seem as though you had read the part about him actually being last of all the presidents (which he is, imo). When this was on facebook a lot of people assumed that because it said he was fifth that it meant there were many behind him. But because of all the ties he actually came in last.


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## Woodstockgranny (Feb 6, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


ditto.


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## leslie41447 (Feb 7, 2011)

I am sure that her trip was paid for by her family. President Obama is too smart to ever take a chance on bad publicity by having her trip paid for by us.


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## SherryH (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't know who paid for his mother in law's trip, and I do like President Obama, and his family seems just fine. All that being said, we have probably paid for most family "junkets", for every shirttail relation of most politicians since way, way back. I'm guessing back to the 1920's, but maybe all the way back to Washington. Nothing really new ever happens in Washington D.C. (or any other capitol) just different ones get caught at different things, in different ways.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

President Obama and his family are doing nothing differently than other modern Presidents. Why do you criticize them? I believe you judge him differently based on the color of his skin, and that colors your opinions.....making them worthless.



taborhills said:


> My opinion? Why should we be paying for any of them to travel yet again? Michelle Obama was not elected. Presidents' wives usually do not travel abroad except with their husbands. Children? Why? The Chinese invited Mrs. O, but why? To promote friendship? Ha. To promote US debt? It's all too bizarre.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps you may be so kind to research how many staff members traveled with the Presidents Bush, Reagen etc.....just to be fair.



tatesgirl said:


> The MIL? What about the 70 staff?


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

In a democracy, it is safe and proper and even advisable to question our elected
leaders on their choices. If we had not objected to government voices in the
18th C, we might not be a country at all, and certainly not the country we are. 
Freedom of expression is basic. Questioning is not disrespect, in fact, the opposite.


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## osagerev (Jun 18, 2011)

I agree. It's tacky.


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## hildy3 (Jan 29, 2011)

SherrySherry said:


> I hate having to leave this forum because of these ugly and negative posts. It was fun until now. So long ladies.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm with you Sherry.
Many of the "originals" have left because of posts like these that seem to go on for pages! It's too bad that reading the rules is not a requirement for joining. No religion..no politics! As for me, My country..my President!
Maggie


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## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Live and let Live..things are not always as they appear to be.


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

The original question -- and in a n "other topics" section -- was ? 

I think it's interesting to see the illogic that appears. For instance, someone implies that anyone who questions Obama's behavior is "racist"? How do you know some of us writers are not black or mixed or other? In fact, we are!


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## m and m (Apr 7, 2012)

Who paid for Mrs. Bush's trip?


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## jjs21582 (Sep 19, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


I have a LOT bigger problem with the fact that our defense budget is larger than the next 26 countries combined, and 25 of those are allies. That is NOT on Obama.


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

That was not the question.


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## Jean Keith (Feb 17, 2011)

AngelMaddy, I'm with you.


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

Even a good leader can make mistakes and catastrophically bad choices. A weak leader will often make careless, wasteful, and even destructive decisions. Do we have to defend "our guy" against every questioning? 

And precedent does not defend extravagant behavior. That waste and exploitation have happened before does not justify it now, or its escalation.


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## whitetail (Feb 19, 2011)

You won't want my opinion either.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We are aware that there are minority Republicans.

The point is that many people criticize President Obama for things beyond his control; for rumor and lies' and more harshly than previous Presidents. In many people's opinions the underlying reason for this is racism. This is a pertinent point of view.



taborhills said:


> The original question -- and in a n "other topics" section -- was ?
> 
> I think it's interesting to see the illogic that appears. For instance, someone implies that anyone who questions Obama's behavior is "racist"? How do you know some of us writers are not black or mixed or other? In fact, we are!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And daughters?



m and m said:


> Who paid for Mrs. Bush's trip?


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## Madison7 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yes, as a non supporter of Obama you don't want my opinion either.


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## Madison7 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yes, as a non supporter of Obama you don't want my opinion either.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jjs21582 said:


> I have a LOT bigger problem with the fact that our defense budget is larger than the next 26 countries combined, and 25 of those are allies. That is NOT on Obama.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And they are criticizing him for trying diplomacy with Putin. Go figure.


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## raedean (Apr 25, 2011)

i am for Ben Carson to wipe up the mess President Obama has caused.i think he is trying to kill us and our nation.
lol.


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbup:


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

All Presidents who have children take someone along to watch their children when they are busy with non child events. Mrs Obama prefers to use her mother as we all we use our mothers if possible. She is their official baby sitter, lives in the White House and doesn't get a salary.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I ask you honestly, would anyone else be criticized in this situation?



Ahirsch601 said:


> All Presidents who have children take someone along to watch their children when they are busy with non child events. Mrs Obama prefers to use her mother as we all we use our mothers if possible. She is their official baby sitter, lives in the White House and doesn't get a salary.


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## ParkerEliz (Mar 21, 2011)

Wish I had a delete button for some of these threads....


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## mehunt1950 (Jun 14, 2012)

I haven't read through the entire string of thoughts and replies. The question actually is does it cost that much to add one more person to the plane (probably not), hotel (no) and meals (maybe). The advantage (emotionally, psychologically) to the daughters of having Grandmother (in addition to Secret Service) along for times when they are not included in events is probably worth whatever it would cost additional. But I simply don't see the need for such expensive and on my $$$ for family.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


I'm with you!


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

damemary said:


> We are aware that there are minority Republicans.
> 
> The point is that many people criticize President Obama for things beyond his control; for rumor and lies' and more harshly than previous Presidents. In many people's opinions the underlying reason for this is racism. This is a pertinent point of view.


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

Not for nothing, but this whole conversation is in the General Chit Chat / Non Knitting category for a reason. If you don't like what you're reading STOP reading it! If you disagree with someone DISAGREE but don't BASH the other person for their beliefs. Agree to disagree then go back to your needles and/or hooks. Or to quote the Book of Mormon (the musical) just "Turn It Off"!


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

Dame mary,

"The point is" Oh?

"In many people's view"? Speak for yourself, and you need not define the point for us. I have not seen the factual evidence for the allegation that all criticisms of him are racist. Sounds good, maybe, but cannot be supported.

There are Dem's who question Obama's behavior, too. And blacks.


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

I didn't vote for Obama either time because of his policies and his ideas. I don't care if he's blue, yellow, or purple he is still IMHO an ineffective president so spare me anyone who disagrees with him is a racist.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

I agree


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

taborhills said:


> In a democracy, it is safe and proper and even advisable to question our elected
> leaders on their choices. If we had not objected to government voices in the
> 18th C, we might not be a country at all, and certainly not the country we are.
> Freedom of expression is basic. Questioning is not disrespect, in fact, the opposite.


Questioning is fine. I wish there was more of it in meaningful ways. The problem here is that there is more judgement thatn questioning going on. As for democracy, I wish it was one.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


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## Margit (Mar 28, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


Msmom1 I agree with your statement!!!


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

GoodyTwoShoes said:


> I didn't vote for Obama either time because of his policies and his ideas. I don't care if he's blue, yellow, or purple he is still IMHO an ineffective president so spare me anyone who disagrees with him is a racist.


It is not disagreement that results in the racism label; it is the nature of the disagreement and the refusal to provide basic information to back up the disagreement. It is the behavior and statements of people that get that reaction. As for being ineffective? What is it that is ineffective. I see him doing exactly what the Bilderbergs and totalitarian corporations want him to do.


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## Msj (Aug 2, 2011)

I think history will be on Obsmas side. It's hard when you have to work against the malfeasance the GOP is indulging in.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

silvercharms said:


> From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


Are you delusional?


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## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: My thoughts exactly.


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


Reluctance to inherit Biden.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Msj said:


> I think history will be on Obsmas side. It's hard when you have to work against the malfeasance the GOP is indulging in.


Glad for this perspective shared by others.
I learned years ago to see history as a pendulum. Individuals have impact, but it is the waves of movement by groups of people who wage their political and economic battles that move a society in some direction or other. Obama's presidency will certainly be evaluated in terms of the reactionary forces that have gained so much power.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Are you delusional?


Can't you follow your own advice?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

taborhills said:


> Reluctance to inherit Biden.


Ditto. That would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.


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## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

silvercharms said:


> From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


Oh, please. :shock:


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## retinsleysr (Apr 28, 2011)

keeping my thoughts to myself. enjoy knitting paradise too much to be banned for what I might say on this subject


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

raedean said:


> i am for Ben Carson to wipe up the mess President Obama has caused.i think he is trying to kill us and our nation.
> lol.


Weird.. :?:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


Got your facts wrong--you must have your head in the sand. I won't say anymore as cannot say anything nice about Obo!!!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

Bernie Sanders for President!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


Please don't assume the Obo's pay for any trips as they don't pay, you pay! Thought you were a person on the Right side of things!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


Where do you get your news? This doesn't make sense.


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## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

ParkerEliz said:


> Wish I had a delete button for some of these threads....


Don't read 'em.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

inishowen said:


> As someone from UK I love the Obama family, but I know little about politics.


Why would you voice your opinion as you cannot vote in our country? I don't voice my opinions about your country so butt out it is "none" of your business!

Why would you "love" them they have not done anything good for our country!


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## stirfry (Nov 3, 2011)

Yep. Not saying a word. On here anyway, other than I now have to pay $3000 a month for my DH's meds. I guess that is saying something.
Have a great day.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tielma said:


> Don't read 'em.


That seems to be the most difficult concept ever. Ever Ever Ever!!!!

Sorta like standing down wind and complaining about the other guy spitting. OMG.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Where do you get your news? This doesn't make sense.


Don't you watch or listen to the news? It is all there for you to become wise about Obo!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why would you voice your opinion as you cannot vote in our country? I don't voice my opinions about your country so butt out it is "none" of your business!
> 
> Why would you "love" them they have not done anything good for our country!


Why can't she voice her thoughts? This is a global world now.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


Me too!


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

tielma said:


> Bernie Sanders for President!!


Wouldn't that be interesting.


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## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

You don't want to know mine either.


mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Why would you voice your opinion as you cannot vote in our country? I don't voice my opinions about your country so butt out it is "none" of your business!
> 
> Why would you "love" them they have not done anything good for our country!


How dare you! You are a very rude women. Why don't you butt out of my life.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

stirfry said:


> Yep. Not saying a word. On here anyway, other than I now have to pay $3000 a month for my DH's meds. I guess that is saying something.
> Have a great day.


Yes, as I took a prescription to the drug store to treat H-Pylori & it cost $650.00! Pharmacist told me if I could have had it filled before Obocare, it wouldn't have coat that much!

Get your facts people before you praise Obo!!!!!


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Glad for this perspective shared by others.
> I learned years ago to see history as a pendulum. Individuals have impact, but it is the waves of movement by groups of people who wage their political and economic battles that move a society in some direction or other. Obama's presidency will certainly be evaluated in terms of the reactionary forces that have gained so much power.


Good comment


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## gracemd (Aug 6, 2011)

GoodyTwoShoes said:


> I didn't vote for Obama either time because of his policies and his ideas. I don't care if he's blue, yellow, or purple he is still IMHO an ineffective president so spare me anyone who disagrees with him is a racist.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

Nope, not an Obama fan, so I'll be nice and say nothing!


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

JuneS said:


> No, but in eight years he did a good job of making it worse.


Finally a true statement. I really don't think I have seen the main stream media do anything in the last five years but glorify this president instead of reporting the truth as it is. Entitled to my opinion as well as the next.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

All these people who 'won't express their feelings' are expressing their feelings. Unfortunately these comments appear to be self-righteous and self-serving and offer no information, only personal prejudice. 

As for non-US members commenting? I have no problem. One so far made a really ignorant statement and the other liked the Obama family but who knows why. These comments provide no thoughtful commentary and, in my book, are just emotional utterances.

Bernie for president? Love that man. He has the balls to speak his mind and remain an independent thinker. He also is not afraid to take on the corporate power structure and to speak on behalf of the people. However, they would not allow him to debate publicly any more than they allowed Dennis Kucinich to do so. This is called manipulating the public via mass media propaganda. Kucinich would have had the audiences in standing ovations throughtout any debate--experience demonstrated that. He showed up everyone else who skirted around every issue, saying nothing of consequence. But that nothingness was the message.


----------



## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> I pretty much agree with you, Bramleygal. But I seem to remember that their allowance pays for the whole trip. Then they reimburse any extra expense from their personal finances. I think this is how it's handled. I don't know for sure.


He sure does not reimburse the tax payer for what it cost to fly Air Force One and Air Force Two, pilots, secret service personnel, etc.! That comes out of our pocket!


----------



## feltit (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm not saying if I like Obama or not, however I wonder why these types of questions come up? Past administrations all did the same in regard to trips for family and/or the First Lady.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Obsessed (Jan 22, 2012)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


THIS is what bothers you??????


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Keonknitter , tell me where it is written that GW knew before hand that the Twin Towers were going to be a target. I do remember that an agent had informed the Clinton administration of a threat on the US. The media did report this after the fact, but there was no reporting of where it would take place. Some thought it would be on Wall St.Also, you said that so much work that Obama does takes place behind close doors .So shouldn't you apply the same
conclusion to GW.How do you know that he(GW)wasn't working on preventing an attack. It seems that you also have a one sighted political nature.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

loravaughn said:


> He sure does not reimburse the tax payer for what it cost to fly Air Force One and Air Force Two, pilots, secret service personnel, etc.! That comes out of our pocket!


Secret service is not extra. As it should be and has been.


----------



## Shautzie (Jun 9, 2013)

He's a lame duck.


----------



## Obsessed (Jan 22, 2012)

SherrySherry said:


> I hate having to leave this forum because of these ugly and negative posts. It was fun until now. So long ladies.


Really unnecessary to threaten leaving. Those who don't enjoy this type of discussion can surely just not follow it and go to another thread. I sometimes find it quite interesting to see what others are thinking although I may not always agree with them. Really, just be an adult!


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

WAKE UP Obama caused the mess!


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Tell us how you really feel. Really.



kittykatzmom said:


> One news report state that Obama had his daughters listed so he did not have to pay for their air fare! CROOK!
> 
> Anyone who voted for this ass hole does not have any room to gripe! Obama is destroying America and is a LIAR! He isn't even a full blooded black person and I haven't figured out which end of him is black - both ends smell!
> 
> I have NEVER voted for him and will NEVER vote for him - saw through his BS when he was running the first time. Sad so many people were so dumb as to re-elect him. When America is ruled by communist you can thank your vote!


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Truth is EVERYONE in this world knows that America has a weak leader. Wait until Russia bombs our country and see how well you like Obama. He has used Executive power more than any other president - because he wants to be a dictator. Bad when even the Russian president is laughing at Obama! 

Do you hear of any other countries inviting the Obama's to visit? 
Were they invited to William and Kate's wedding? Did they send a gift from 
America to the wedding or birth of Prince George? The answer is HELL NO!


----------



## cafeknitter (Apr 2, 2013)

As a rule I do not discuss politics or religion. To each there own and everyone is entitled to their opinion.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

NO but you had better not vote for a Democrat, as they will be Obama's puppet! He plans on getting someone in office that he can control. Just wait and see!


----------



## Dusti (Jan 23, 2012)

The real question should be why does the average household, that being Mom, Dad and child, have to work 3 jobs just to "barely survive?" Why Americans have been silent on this issue has befuddled me for the last 15 years yet it just doesn't come up.
As far as presidents go ALL after Truman...suck!


----------



## maryellens (Apr 11, 2011)

:thumbup:We don't need politics here.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Tell them - even though you don't live in America you have as much right to say how you feel as any America. Obama is the most disliked president America has ever had - the last one I really disliked was LBJ.

At first I hated Obama, but I realized that the hate was only hurting me. would I walk across the street to see him - hell no!

When he dies I will do a happy dance!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Dusti said:


> The real question should be why does the average household, that being Mom, Dad and child, have to work 3 jobs just to "barely survive?" Why Americans have been silent on this issue has befuddled me for the last 15 years yet it just doesn't come up.
> As far as presidents go ALL after Truman...suck!


Apathy. Just like here. No one wants to rock the boat. "We don't discuss politics in our home" Ever hear that phrase?


----------



## clickerMLL (Aug 14, 2013)

Are you aware that travel expenses which are not legitimate government work-related CANNOT be taxpayer expenses? That is federal law, and very strictly followed. That means that political trips and personal trips are paid out of the pocket of the political party for political trips, and out of the personal pocket of the President for personal trips such as vacations. The only exception is that the Secret Service security agents are always paid by government, since their work is the same whether the family member is walking on the White House lawn or on a beach. It does get complicated, though, when trips are both official and political. 

This has nothing to do with political party preference.


----------



## MartiG (Jan 21, 2012)

I see below that it is "assumed" that the MIL did not pay her own way. Two things, I think the Obamas are too smart NOT to pay her way since they know detractors would pounce on this as information is so easily transmitted nowadays and secondly, I have a lot of respect for the fact that she is taken along when Mrs. Obama knows she may have to meet with people without her girls and rather than leave them unattended on their own their grandmother is there to be with them. I wish sometimes people would assume the positive or not assume at all. Just my opinion.


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

You are being picky. Every First Lady has made many goodwill trips to increase good relations between crountries. Because she includes her daughters does not make it a 'vacation'.


----------



## MartiG (Jan 21, 2012)

Again, just my opinion but I wonder when someone says they can't find anything nice to say about them. While some may not like the facets of his presidency, the family seems like a wonderful role model. With their children as much as possible, a grandmother there to see to them when the parents are engaged in formal matters, two parents who obviously love and protect their family. Two happy looking children. Dignified, intelligent parents who obviously love and respect each other. I would wish that for most children.


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## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

A family working 3 jobs to survive is because they do not know how to manage money. It is supriseing how much one can live without and live just fine. Cut of the cable, get rid on the cell phones and turn on the lights for a start. Check out the groceries they buy bet a big savings could be found there.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

The Obama's do not pay for their own children to fly - so why would they pay for the MIL?


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

The Obama's do not pay for their own children to fly - so why would they pay for the MIL?


----------



## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

MartiG said:


> Again, just my opinion but I wonder when someone says they can't find anything nice to say about them. While some may not like the facets of his presidency, the family seems like a wonderful role model. With their children as much as possible, a grandmother there to see to them when the parents are engaged in formal matters, two parents who obviously love and protect their family. Two happy looking children. Dignified, intelligent parents who obviously love and respect each other. I would wish that for most children.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/weddingsnub.asp

......now you know.



kittykatzmom said:


> Truth is EVERYONE in this world knows that America has a weak leader. Wait until Russia bombs our country and see how well you like Obama. He has used Executive power more than any other president - because he wants to be a dictator. Bad when even the Russian president is laughing at Obama!
> 
> Do you hear of any other countries inviting the Obama's to visit?
> Were they invited to William and Kate's wedding? Did they send a gift from
> America to the wedding or birth of Prince George? The answer is HELL NO!


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

loravaughn said:


> He sure does not reimburse the tax payer for what it cost to fly Air Force One and Air Force Two, pilots, secret service personnel, etc.! That comes out of our pocket!


This is why people scoff at such thinking. Use of govt planes for govt business is paid for by public coffers. Why should he reimburse the public for doing the public's business? You seem to be so caught up in your personal hostility to Obama that you cannot separate your personal prejudices and facts.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

kittykatzmom said:


> NO but you had better not vote for a Democrat, as they will be Obama's puppet! He plans on getting someone in office that he can control. Just wait and see!


Wow, very omnipotent. Really!?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

kittykatzmom said:


> Tell them - even though you don't live in America you have as much right to say how you feel as any America. Obama is the most disliked president America has ever had - the last one I really disliked was LBJ.
> 
> At first I hated Obama, but I realized that the hate was only hurting me. would I walk across the street to see him - hell no!
> 
> When he dies I will do a happy dance!


Good thing you aren't being hateful.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Hilda said:


> A family working 3 jobs to survive is because they do not know how to manage money. It is supriseing how much one can live without and live just fine. Cut of the cable, get rid on the cell phones and turn on the lights for a start. Check out the groceries they buy bet a big savings could be found there.


Lucky you to have lived a life of comfort with sufficient funds to pay your bills and eat well. Sounds like you have read the right wing Christian books that think the Great Depression was a socialist hoax and the dust bowl was no different for those millions of people than their lives before the Crash of 1929. It is appalling to me that such ignorance exists in a country where real information is easily available if a person takes a bit of time without cobwebs of prejudice clouding their mind.


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

MartiG said:


> I see below that it is "assumed" that the MIL did not pay her own way. Two things, I think the Obamas are too smart NOT to pay her way since they know detractors would pounce on this as information is so easily transmitted nowadays and secondly, I have a lot of respect for the fact that she is taken along when Mrs. Obama knows she may have to meet with people without her girls and rather than leave them unattended on their own their grandmother is there to be with them. I wish sometimes people would assume the positive or not assume at all. Just my opinion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


the USA is in a bigger mess now than when he took office. First 4 years he blamed his predecessor ... now he is his predecessor...can only blame himself.

Other than that I will say nothing more. I don't want to use profanity on KP.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kittykatzmom said:


> One news report state that Obama had his daughters listed so he did not have to pay for their air fare! CROOK!
> 
> Anyone who voted for this ass hole does not have any room to gripe! Obama is destroying America and is a LIAR! He isn't even a full blooded black person and I haven't figured out which end of him is black - both ends smell!
> 
> I have NEVER voted for him and will NEVER vote for him - saw through his BS when he was running the first time. Sad so many people were so dumb as to re-elect him. When America is ruled by communist you can thank your vote!


I am only re-quoting your post so others know to whom I am referring. Your post was shameful and reflects on you rather than your target.


----------



## moke (Oct 8, 2011)

Did Marie Antoinette really say...Let them eat cake? Absolutely not an Obama fan...


----------



## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Lucky you to have lived a life of comfort with sufficient funds to pay your bills and eat well. Sounds like you have read the right wing Christian books that think the Great Depression was a socialist hoax and the dust bowl was no different for those millions of people than their lives before the Crash of 1929. It is appalling to me that such ignorance exists in a country where real information is easily available if a person takes a bit of time without cobwebs of prejudice clouding their mind.


Nope, I was an enlisted military wife for 15 yrs and then a devorced mother with 2 kids to raise while working minimum wage jobs. I have been there so I know.


----------



## clickerMLL (Aug 14, 2013)

How about if we all just agree to disagree about our current President? Discussion is one thing, but all this spewing of hate and accusations is not helpful, not informative, and not persuasive. I suggest we give it a rest!


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Well then Hilda you should have some compassion for others who are struggling instead of your hostile judgement against them.

But you lived with privilege as a military wife and held entitlements. I also do not know of what racial barriers you may not have had to face. And let me add that minimum wage even 15 yrs ago, bought a lot more than it does today. Today's minimum wage is akin to the spending value of the 1970's. Even with an increase to $10.10/hour today, that amount will still keep people in poverty.

The lack of real knowledge demonstrated here of how the country really works and how an economy works is appalling. That is why the 1% gets away with its crap.

Just read an article on Russia and must say they need a hand of applause for standing up to the Western banks and Wall Street. If people don't understand the powers of the banking and investment institutions, even a broad understanding, they should not be making judgements against the struggles of any working folk.


----------



## Knittin' in Georgia (Jun 27, 2013)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


I can't keep silent, but I'll say it nicely: I cannot support or give credit to someone who deliberately "misrepresents the truth."

And, there are other reasons as well.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

If I see a cancelled check for the plane ticket then I will believe she paid for the trip, until then the tax payer pays the whole bill.


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## moke (Oct 8, 2011)

Socialized medical coverage is not my idea of America!!!!!!!!!!! And West Wing Chicago politics have always been bad for this country, and not be trusted! Just thanking God he will be gone soon!


----------



## SallyAnn (Apr 21, 2011)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


Agreed!!!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

moke said:


> Socialized medical coverage is not my idea of America!!!!!!!!!!! And West Wing Chicago politics have always been bad for this country, and not be trusted! Just thanking God he will be gone soon!


Hurry up 2016. Hate to wish my life away.......


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Knittin' in Georgia said:


> I can't keep silent, but I'll say it nicely: I cannot support or give credit to someone who deliberately "misrepresents the truth."
> 
> And, there are other reasons as well.


Well, then, can I assume you feel the same about Bush and Cheney that fabricated a WMD reason to attack a country that never threatened the US? And what about GW's support of torture and kidnapping of people around the world to be held without charges for yeas at Guantanamo? I find your moralistic judgement proving false.

And tell me what propaganda organ of the powers that be has ever told the truth? But you listen to Fox 5?


----------



## waychar07 (Jun 27, 2011)

Nah, I'd be banned if I gave you my opinion.


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## stitchntime (Apr 27, 2013)

Knittin' in Georgia said:


> I can't keep silent, but I'll say it nicely: I cannot support or give credit to someone who deliberately "misrepresents the truth."
> 
> And, there are other reasons as well.


Well said--our country is being led down the wrong path.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Well, then, can I assume you feel the same about Bush and Cheney that fabricated a WMD reason to attack a country that never threatened the US? And what about GW's support of torture and kidnapping of people around the world to be held without charges for yeas at Guantanamo? I find your moralistic judgement proving false.
> 
> And tell me what propaganda organ of the powers that be has ever told the truth? But you listen to Fox 5?


What happened to OB closing Gitmo? Guilty by association?


----------



## gmarie (Feb 8, 2012)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


I totally agree!!!


----------



## ann seal (Jan 30, 2014)

Raybo said:


> Never assume :XD:


I 2nd that!!!!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I feel the same as most. Just better not to say anything!!!


----------



## Dusti (Jan 23, 2012)

It's just people being passionate about what they believe. As far as "giving it it a rest" that YOU can do by simply moving on to the next topic. Why people stay on a topic and then complain about how they don't like it mystifies me. What I do if it's not something I care about is, I simply move out the thread and read some other post. But what I DON'T do is blow off a topic others are interested in. Just move on...it's really not that hard to do....easy as taking a scroll.


----------



## ann seal (Jan 30, 2014)

If only politians would shine on themselves instead of rainning on oponants.
Again, I quote "Thmuper's" Mother: 
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all"!!!!!!!
Please, please, please stop thowing stones!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


Bramleygal
The frst Family pays for its private outings with private money.
Everyone should know this by now.


----------



## hobbynut (Sep 2, 2013)

Our local dog catcher for one


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## babsbarb (Dec 23, 2012)

WE need to get rid of them all (politicians) and start over. This is supposed to be governed by the people for the people. The representatives are supposed to do what WE the people want. Not line their pockets and take advantage of their position.


stitchntime said:


> Well said--our country is being led down the wrong path.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Montana Gramma said:


> If I see a cancelled check for the plane ticket then I will believe she paid for the trip, until then the tax payer pays the whole bill.


Montana Gramma
WHY focus on this First Family? Most of prev. ones have taken many more trips than this one - oh, I forgot, this one is of color and that makes a difference of course.
By the way is there anything in our Constitution that forbids First Families to have private time? Never read anywhere that when becoming President, one becomes a Slave.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bramleygal
> The frst Family pays for its private outings with private money.
> Everyone should know this by now.


y Cheryl K. Chumley

-y Cheryl K. Chumley

-

The Washington Times

Thursday, March 20, 2014
Sorry double post.
U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, Malia, right in the back, and Michelle Obama's mother Marian Robinson, left in the back, arrive at Capital International Airport in Beijing, China, Thursday, March 20, 2014. Michelle Obama has arrived in Beijing with her mother and daughters to kick off a seven-day, three-city tour where she will focus on education and cultural exchange. (AP Photo/Alexander F. Yuan, Pool)

Enlarge Photo
U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, ... more >

Photo Gallery:

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22 PhotosAwesome rifles: The best and the baddest
Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

7 PhotosMichelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Story Topics

Michelle Obama
China
Sasha
Malia
Ben Rhodes

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The Obama ladies are in the house  the house of China, that is.

First lady Michelle Obama, her two daughters, Malia and Sasha, and her mother touched down Thursday in China for whats being touted as a weeklong feel-good tourist event, amid increasing murmurs back home about U.S. taxpayers having to foot the bill.

PHOTOS: Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Mrs. Obama is supposed to use her visit for soft diplomacy only, and shy from the more controversial topics that plague U.S.-China relations, namely human rights and economics. No reporters accompanied the family on the trip.

The nature of her visit is really quite different, deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters ahead of the trip. What the first lady really brings is the power of her own story, the power of American values.

The White House also announced that Mrs. Obama wouldnt field any questions from journalists she encountered in Beijing, which rankled some members of the press and the private sector, given her trip  complete with an entourage of about 70  was still being paid for with tax dollars.

Mrs. Obama is due to meet with her Chinese counterpart, first lady Peng Liyuan, on Friday. Her travel mates will also head with her to the western historic city of Xian and the southern community of Chengdu, the latter of which is home to the nations famed panda bear reserves.

The Washington Times

Thursday, March 20, 2014

U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, Malia, right in the back, and Michelle Obama's mother Marian Robinson, left in the back, arrive at Capital International Airport in Beijing, China, Thursday, March 20, 2014. Michelle Obama has arrived in Beijing with her mother and daughters to kick off a seven-day, three-city tour where she will focus on education and cultural exchange. (AP Photo/Alexander F. Yuan, Pool)

 Enlarge Photo
U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, ... more >

Photo Gallery:

Awesome rifles: The best and the baddest

22 PhotosAwesome rifles: The best and the baddest
Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

7 PhotosMichelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Story Topics

Michelle Obama
China
Sasha
Malia
Ben Rhodes

Follow Us On
facebookFacebook
Question of the Day
Has the missing Malaysia plane affected your confidence in the safety of commercial flights?

Yes

No

Undecided

Other

Login to Vote

View results

The Obama ladies are in the house  the house of China, that is.

First lady Michelle Obama, her two daughters, Malia and Sasha, and her mother touched down Thursday in China for whats being touted as a weeklong feel-good tourist event, amid increasing murmurs back home about U.S. taxpayers having to foot the bill.

PHOTOS: Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Mrs. Obama is supposed to use her visit for soft diplomacy only, and shy from the more controversial topics that plague U.S.-China relations, namely human rights and economics. No reporters accompanied the family on the trip.

The nature of her visit is really quite different, deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters ahead of the trip. What the first lady really brings is the power of her own story, the power of American values.

The White House also announced that Mrs. Obama wouldnt field any questions from journalists she encountered in Beijing, which rankled some members of the press and the private sector, given her trip  complete with an entourage of about 70  was still being paid for with tax dollars.

Mrs. Obama is due to meet with her Chinese counterpart, first lady Peng Liyuan, on Friday. Her travel mates will also head with her to the western historic city of Xian and the southern community of Chengdu, the latter of which is home to the nations famed panda bear reserves.
y Cheryl K. Chumley

-

The Washington Times

Thursday, March 20, 2014

U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, Malia, right in the back, and Michelle Obama's mother Marian Robinson, left in the back, arrive at Capital International Airport in Beijing, China, Thursday, March 20, 2014. Michelle Obama has arrived in Beijing with her mother and daughters to kick off a seven-day, three-city tour where she will focus on education and cultural exchange. (AP Photo/Alexander F. Yuan, Pool)

Enlarge Photo
U.S. First Lady Michelle Obama, front left, her daughters Sasha, front right, ... more >

Photo Gallery:

Awesome rifles: The best and the baddest

22 PhotosAwesome rifles: The best and the baddest
Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

7 PhotosMichelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Story Topics

Michelle Obama
China
Sasha
Malia
Ben Rhodes

Follow Us On
facebookFacebook
Question of the Day
Has the missing Malaysia plane affected your confidence in the safety of commercial flights?

Yes

No

Undecided

Other

Login to Vote

View results

The Obama ladies are in the house  the house of China, that is.

First lady Michelle Obama, her two daughters, Malia and Sasha, and her mother touched down Thursday in China for whats being touted as a weeklong feel-good tourist event, amid increasing murmurs back home about U.S. taxpayers having to foot the bill.

PHOTOS: Michelle, Malia, Sasha Obama tour China on taxpayer dime

Mrs. Obama is supposed to use her visit for soft diplomacy only, and shy from the more controversial topics that plague U.S.-China relations, namely human rights and economics. No reporters accompanied the family on the trip.

The nature of her visit is really quite different, deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told reporters ahead of the trip. What the first lady really brings is the power of her own story, the power of American values.

The White House also announced that Mrs. Obama wouldnt field any questions from journalists she encountered in Beijing, which rankled some members of the press and the private sector, given her trip  complete with an entourage of about 70  was still being paid for with tax dollars.

Mrs. Obama is due to meet with her Chinese counterpart, first lady Peng Liyuan, on Friday. Her travel mates will also head with her to the western historic city of Xian and the southern community of Chengdu, the latter of which is home to the nations famed panda bear reserves.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Never assume :XD:


Assuming causes endless problems, so I agree wholeheartedly on this one. I have a DH who does this constantly and drives everyone up a wall.


----------



## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

A country that does not have a basic healthcare is doomed. Remember when older kids had polio because they had been contaminated before the vaccine. Social healthcare ensures YOUR health. Have to laugh at Georgia Governor refusing increased Medicaid to Georgians --the state where the US Federal Center for Disease control is. I say, remove it and all the military installations and put them where they will be appreciated. This puts everyone at risk. Like who wants to shop HL where you buy stuff for your kids or crafts, put up by sick employees, coughing, sneezing, touching. Not good.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

The Washington Times is a very conservative, right wing paper and by raising the question of funding the trip, has already implied impropriety. This is not news, but blatant propaganda. They provide no facts.


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## cbethea (Oct 21, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


No I don't agree. Growing up in the White House would be difficult at best - for any child. Their grandmother - a better term than the MIL - has helped provide care and guidance for the O'bama girls. She is with the girls when their mother can't be. She raised a strong, smart, accomplished, caring daughter, so perhaps she helps to put some of the disgusting, racist, lying, crap said about their father in prospective for the girls.


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## Cassews (Apr 10, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


_______________________________________________

I have to digress as well .....


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Never assume :XD:


Sorry, I got interrupted and hit send again when I came back :~(.


----------



## cbethea (Oct 21, 2013)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


I find it amazing that these folks have a problem with the administration that tried to clean up the mess he inherited but had no problem with the previous administration that created them. Go figure....


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very wise and considerate.



Dusti said:


> It's just people being passionate about what they believe. As far as "giving it it a rest" that YOU can do by simply moving on to the next topic. Why people stay on a topic and then complain about how they don't like it mystifies me. What I do if it's not something I care about is, I simply move out the thread and read some other post. But what I DON'T do is blow off a topic others are interested in. Just move on...it's really not that hard to do....easy as taking a scroll.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Another nice kettle of fish!


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## debsu (Jul 26, 2011)

Agree with dragonswing!


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## cbethea (Oct 21, 2013)

yorkie1 said:


> I feel the same as most. Just better not to say anything!!!


The president was elected twice - I think "most" is a bit of a stretch.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You would think so. If they complain anyway, they are just out to criticize the President personally. If they don't know, they must be........unenlightened?



Huckleberry said:


> Bramleygal
> The frst Family pays for its private outings with private money.
> Everyone should know this by now.


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I was simply agreeing with what most were saying on this post!!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What are you choosing to do about it? How can we improve things?



babsbarb said:


> WE need to get rid of them all (politicians) and start over. This is supposed to be governed by the people for the people. The representatives are supposed to do what WE the people want. Not line their pockets and take advantage of their position.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Montana Gramma
> WHY focus on this First Family? Most of prev. ones have taken many more trips than this one - oh, I forgot, this one is of color and that makes a difference of course.
> By the way is there anything in our Constitution that forbids First Families to have private time? Never read anywhere that when becoming President, one becomes a Slave.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Bea 465 (Mar 27, 2011)

Didn't vote for him, have a very low opinion of him and his wife who abuses the taxpayers with her trips. Enough said.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

cbethea said:


> I find it amazing that these folks have a problem with the administration that tried to clean up the mess he inherited but had no problem with the previous administration that created them. Go figure....


I agree with you and have made the point in different ways myself. That is where the credibility factor comes in--it is missing! Some of these people talk as if some of us are saying Obama is perfect and raving about him. Actually, i haven't seen one iota of such a statement. None of these people have once asked why people voted for Obama, even a second time. This tells me that we are dealing with people lost in an image of reality that doesn't match any facts, and certainly shows no perspective. The one resource mentioned, at least that I have seen, is the Washington Times which I periodically read online. I find its propaganda blatant, facts never entering their articles or they are highly distorted.

The original post asked about the First families spending history. This from an Obama supporter. There was concern and a willingness to question someone she has supported. It was done reasonably. But this only fed the sharks of hatred; it gave them an excuse to begin their emotional, fact free rant against the president. Some of it was downright vile and I did report it to administrator. What do people gain by such ragefulness, especially on a public site like this which has no decision-making power or goals. I can live with disagreement, even when it is based on bias, but not when it promotes blatant bigotry. Oh, yes, there is no racism on their part, they just attack everything people of color do, whether they are the president of the country, or poor, minimum wage workers. I call it Blaming the Victim because they don't have the courage to put the blame where it belongs: on a system built on slavery and run by the wealthy who own the monetary system.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> You would think so. If they complain anyway, they are just out to criticize the President personally. If they don't know, they must be........unenlightened?


The expert has spoken. God help us all.


----------



## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Well then Hilda you should have some compassion for others who are struggling instead of your hostile judgement against them.
> 
> But you lived with privilege as a military wife and held entitlements. I also do not know of what racial barriers you may not have had to face. And let me add that minimum wage even 15 yrs ago, bought a lot more than it does today. Today's minimum wage is akin to the spending value of the 1970's. Even with an increase to $10.10/hour today, that amount will still keep people in poverty.
> 
> ...


I'm not hostile. I feel sorry for them not being taught by their parents the value of a dollar and how not to waste it. There are so many solutions for learning the solutions to their problems but they just keep on doin' what they always have. Even just watching t.v. you can learn what to do to improve one's life style and I don't mean the commercials.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Good points.



Knitish said:


> A country that does not have a basic healthcare is doomed. Remember when older kids had polio because they had been contaminated before the vaccine. Social healthcare ensures YOUR health. Have to laugh at Georgia Governor refusing increased Medicaid to Georgians --the state where the US Federal Center for Disease control is. I say, remove it and all the military installations and put them where they will be appreciated. This puts everyone at risk. Like who wants to shop HL where you buy stuff for your kids or crafts, put up by sick employees, coughing, sneezing, touching. Not good.


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## shepherd (Feb 25, 2012)

You do not need to go very far back to get to Harry Truman -Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many, or more important decisions regarding our nation's history as any of the other 32 Presidents preceding him. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House.
The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence , Missouri . His wife had inherited the house from her mother and father and other than their years in the White House, they lived their entire lives there.
When he retired from office in 1952 his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an 'allowance' and later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year.
After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There was no Secret Service following them.
When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, "You don't want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn't belong to me.. It belongs to the American people and it's not for sale."
Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, "I don't consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise."
As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agreed. Thank you for posting.



tamarque said:


> The Washington Times is a very conservative, right wing paper and by raising the question of funding the trip, has already implied impropriety. This is not news, but blatant propaganda. They provide no facts.


----------



## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> One news report state that Obama had his daughters listed so he did not have to pay for their air fare! CROOK!
> 
> Anyone who voted for this ass hole does not have any room to gripe! Obama is destroying America and is a LIAR! He isn't even a full blooded black person and I haven't figured out which end of him is black - both ends smell!
> 
> I have NEVER voted for him and will NEVER vote for him - saw through his BS when he was running the first time. Sad so many people were so dumb as to re-elect him. When America is ruled by communist you can thank your vote!


You and the other people on here who HATE President Obama do not know him at all. The person you hate or dislike is a person created by CORPORATE AMERICA. The money pays and buys their power to control all of us and sway our vote. It is destroying our country. It is so sad. I don't have bad feelings for all of you personally. We have good conversations on here all the time. It's just that this is a hot topic. This particular president could have done great things for our country if not for Corporations' buying control. I am not speaking about Republicans here. I am talking about Corporations and Greed. I love this forum and I'm not leaving. When you see me on here I don't want you to dislike me. I just feel deep sadness for what is really going on to Americans.


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## CorvallisKnitter (Jan 4, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


Oops - I got onto this one by accident. Simple request - *please state that this is a political oriented thread in the heading of your post* so I don't start my daily KP/coffee time with the ugliness of the current political rants/raves. And please understand - I don't mind that you do it - I just don't want to be involved and wish to avoid the discussions. It would be really helpful if the heading would include a warning that the discussion is about politics/political parties/gripes about current administration/etc.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Bea 465 said:


> Didn't vote for him, have a very low opinion of him and his wife who abuses the taxpayers with her trips. Enough said.


Laura Bush is the 3rd highest trip taker including her husband.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

Open your ears and eyes Obama suporters. Just look at the all the scandals this administration has amassed. Your children and grandchildren will be paying for the debt for many many yeats. He has made the country weak Impeachment can't come soon enough.


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## sonnie71 (Feb 11, 2013)

Generally, When a family member travels with the president the president picks up the bill. The first lady is making an official visit to China so her trip in part may be paid for by the government.


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## weimfam (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm not going to insert myself into this one! You don't want my opinion, I'm sure!


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## grace59 (Jan 17, 2012)

ditto


mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

CorvallisKnitter said:


> Oops - I got onto this one by accident. Simple request - *please state that this is a political oriented thread in the heading of your post* so I don't start my daily KP/coffee time with the ugliness of the current political rants/raves. And please understand - I don't mind that you do it - I just don't want to be involved and wish to avoid the discussions. It would be really helpful if the heading would include a warning that the discussion is about politics/political parties/gripes about current administration/etc.


It took you 18 pages to realize this?


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

Ute4KP Saying so doesn't make it so. Back up your statement with facts.


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## fibermcgivver (Dec 18, 2012)

One thing that comes to mind is that the MIL is a known and trusted caregiver for the girls. Think what it would cost the taxpayers to replace someone like her! We Grammys out there know just how valuable and indispensible we are! I'm sure the First Lady has many official functions to attend without the girls.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Montana Gramma
> WHY focus on this First Family? Most of prev. ones have taken many more trips than this one - oh, I forgot, this one is of color and that makes a difference of course.
> By the way is there anything in our Constitution that forbids First Families to have private time? Never read anywhere that when becoming President, one becomes a Slave.


You make my reply sound racist so where did you get that idea? Every First Family has taken hits in the past for their spending habits. Has nothing to do with color as you suggest and no President has ever been a slave to his office, it is a paid job, chosen in their career and I would think most would take offense at your analogy. They work hard to become President and most maintain the office with dignity and patriotism. I merely suggested when it is paid for there will be a record, if not it is the tax payers $. Why does race always have to become the determining factor of a conversation just because the President is black? I believe OP was just asking who pays, I see no race, gender or age related in that comment.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Montana Gramma said:


> You make my reply sound racist so where did you get that idea? Every First Family has taken hits in the past for their spending habits. Has nothing to do with color as you suggest and no President has ever been a slave to his office, it is a paid job, chosen in their career and I would think most would take offense at your analogy. They work hard to become President and most maintain the office with dignity and patriotism. I merely suggested when it is paid for there will be a record, if not it is the tax payers $. Why does race always have to become the determining factor of a conversation just because the President is black? I believe OP was just asking who pays, I see no race, gender or age related in that comment.


Cuz they got nothing else to go on.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

damemary It should bother you. Taxpayers DO pay for the Obama vacations.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

"That is documented and is a fact."
That is your quote.



GranmaD said:


> Ute4KP Saying so doesn't make it so. Back up your statement with facts.


"


----------



## ohmunner (Aug 21, 2013)

Ditto for me!!!


Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.
> 
> quote]
> I'm with you... what a mess he walked into.


----------



## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


I agree with you 100%. All presidents go on vacation and nothing is said, but let the Obama's take a trip and it's just got to be at the taxpayer's expense. Obama haters wouldn't admit to any good he's done if it were right in their faces. How quickly the Bush mess has been forgotten.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

ute4KP Quote the documents and where they can be fouind.


----------



## onieh (May 30, 2013)

My coment is what have the past presidents relatives done.
Like traverlng all over. If they would all work together 
instead of arguing or disagreeing on every thing. Any way I would of hated to taken over what he has. I'm from Wisconsin and I hope to God Walker doesn't run for president. If you think we have it bad now.
Have a good day.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitish said:


> A country that does not have a basic healthcare is doomed. Remember when older kids had polio because they had been contaminated before the vaccine. Social healthcare ensures YOUR health. Have to laugh at Georgia Governor refusing increased Medicaid to Georgians --the state where the US Federal Center for Disease control is. I say, remove it and all the military installations and put them where they will be appreciated. This puts everyone at risk. Like who wants to shop HL where you buy stuff for your kids or crafts, put up by sick employees, coughing, sneezing, touching. Not good.


Knitish
A M E N.


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## onieh (May 30, 2013)

I agree with you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

carrottop71 said:


> I agree with you 100%. All presidents go on vacation and nothing is said, but let the Obama's take a trip and it's just got to be at the taxpayer's expense. Obama haters wouldn't admit to any good he's done if it were right in their faces. How quickly the Bush mess has been forgotten.


carrottop
how right you are. Let us NEVER forget what the Bush administration has cost us WE THE PEOPLE - thousands lost their lives and tens of thousands are disabled forever.


----------



## sandj (May 16, 2012)

JuneS said:


> No, but in eight years he did a good job of making it worse.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cialea said:


> angelmaddy said:
> 
> 
> > I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

tamarque said:


> The Washington Times is a very conservative, right wing paper and by raising the question of funding the trip, has already implied impropriety. This is not news, but blatant propaganda. They provide no facts.


tamarque
always consider the source and the answer is quite clear, isn't t!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GranmaD said:


> Open your ears and eyes Obama suporters. Just look at the all the scandals this administration has amassed. Your children and grandchildren will be paying for the debt for many many yeats. He has made the country weak Impeachment can't come soon enough.


GramaD
what scandals PLEASE? Wishful thinking. None so far. Quite an accomplishment.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

GranmaD said:


> Ute4KP Saying so doesn't make it so. Back up your statement with facts.


Ah, I needed a good laugh here. It is a documented fact that people on the right tend to hate facts--never letting any get in the way of a good moralistic attack. You and people who agree with you are asked all the time to back up your attack statements and you never do. I was once reported to the admin because I dared to send a link to explain and support a position on something. Maybe if you would actually support your statements conversations like this would have more substance to them.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

onieh said:


> My coment is what have the past presidents relatives done.
> Like traverlng all over. If they would all work together
> instead of arguing or disagreeing on every thing. Any way I would of hated to taken over what he has. I'm from Wisconsin and I hope to God Walker doesn't run for president. If you think we have it bad now.
> Have a good day.


 Sorry not as bad as you think, infact feel better then you think. No don't want him running for President either. Why because he is doing good for this state and want him to stay.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janeway said:


> Yes, as I took a prescription to the drug store to treat H-Pylori & it cost $650.00! Pharmacist told me if I could have had it filled before Obocare, it wouldn't have coat that much!
> Get your facts people before you praise Obo!!!!!


Are these really what you call facts?


----------



## CorvallisKnitter (Jan 4, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> It took you 18 pages to realize this?


Bloody Hell - I forgot to unwatch this sucker. . . Thanks for the reminder.

No dang it - it did not take me 18 darned pages to "realize this". I simply opened it up this morning on the first page and placed my request and reply to the original post. My request just happened to land on the 18th page due to the amount of rapid (strong possibility mostly negative and trollish) feedback this post had already received. Not my fault or intent - and no - I have not read all 18 pages of vitriol that this post probably engendered.

It always surprises me how such a wonderful website like KP has such angry, argumentative, provocative commentators, some of which probably have wonderful manners and decorum and wouldn't be so manure-stirring in public.

I'll state my request again (and unwatch this post) *Please, Please, Pretty Please - Put a warning in the heading of your post if the subject is in any way political*.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

CorvallisKnitter said:


> Oops - I got onto this one by accident. Simple request - *please state that this is a political oriented thread in the heading of your post* so I don't start my daily KP/coffee time with the ugliness of the current political rants/raves. And please understand - I don't mind that you do it - I just don't want to be involved and wish to avoid the discussions. It would be really helpful if the heading would include a warning that the discussion is about politics/political parties/gripes about current administration/etc.


I got into it by accident too, and wish I hadn't. I made a mild remark about how the Obama family are perceived. Big mistake. I will never make a comment about American politics again. Apparently it's none of my business!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

CorvallisKnitter said:


> Bloody Hell - I forgot to unwatch this sucker. . . Thanks for the reminder.
> 
> No dang it - it did not take me 18 darned pages to "realize this". I simply opened it up this morning on the first page and placed my request and reply to the original post. My request just happened to land on the 18th page due to the amount of rapid (strong possibility mostly negative and trollish) feedback this post had already received. Not my fault or intent - and no - I have not read all 18 pages of vitriol that this post probably engendered.
> 
> ...


You couldn't tell by the few words in the OP that it would get political? Just do read it. OMG.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> carrottop
> how right you are. Let us NEVER forget what the Bush administration has cost us WE THE PEOPLE - thousands lost their lives and tens of thousands are disabled forever.


Most people don't know that Iraq War I cost about 1/2 million American lives. So many were not killed on the battle field but returned with such illnesses from radiation and biogerm warfare and batteries of toxic vaccines that they succumbed in a few short years. They are all deaths from the war. Their children, too, born after returning are often so damaged genetically from uranium causing genetic mutations. And the cancer rates are sky high. The list goes on. Most know about PTSD and the increasing suicide rates. And those still alive, are so dysfunctional due to the trauma and maiming of the war. Iraq War II, will have the same numbers over the next few years except for the fact that fewer people may have landed there, but the proportions will be just as high. War just does that and the more toxic the weaponry, the higher the damage. In a sense, WWII was kinder as people did not survive with such maiming of mind and body.

But the corporations have made millions and we the people have paid the bill while having our education system decimated along with health care, day care, housing and all social programs which is what our taxes should provide.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knoller, Mark, CBS News. E-mail Sent to FactCheck.org. 7 Jun 2011.
Lai, Shelly, Maj., 89th Airlift Wing Public Affairs Director. E-mail Sent to FactCheck.org. 5 Jul 2011.
Bedingfeld, Kate, White House Associate Communications Director. E-mail Sent to FactCheck.org. 27 Jun 2011.
"Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. To Continue Training Air Force One And E-4B Aircrews." Reuters. 10 Sep 2010.
Gammel, Caroline. "G20 summit: Barack Obama's UK visit planned in minute detail." The Telegraph. 30 Mar 2009.
Harris, Paul, and Robin McKie. "Prospect of Barack Obama show causes UK to clear its decks." The Observer. 29 Mar 2009.
Thompson, Paul. "Here comes top-security travelling White House." London Evening Standard. 30 Mar 2009.
McFeatters, Dale. "An Entourage surpassing the queen's." Editorial. Scripps Howard News Service. 31 Mar 2009.
White, Michael, and Ewen MacAskill. "Laura, me and 700 friends." The Guardian. 19 Nov 2003.
Russel, Alec. "Bush's flying circus leaves out only the kitchen sink." The Telegraph. 15 Nov 2003.
General Accounting Office. "Presidential Travel: Costs and Accounting for the President's 1998 Trips to Africa, Chile, and China." Sept 1999.
Hendren, John. "Bush's Massive Entourage Mobilized In Japan." States News Service. 10 Jan 1992.



GranmaD said:


> ute4KP Quote the documents and where they can be fouind.


I notice that you don't submit any documents. How strange you make demands of others.

.


----------



## Pope (Jul 25, 2011)

The media does that with every move Obama makes or says.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> cialea
> never in the history of our country had a President to clean up nothing but messes and that without any help from the GOP. Let me rephrase that, without help from the Right Nuts.


I have such a hard time understanding peoples memory loss.... And not just without their help but having to run into the brick walls they build...


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

inishowen said:


> I got into it by accident too, and wish I hadn't. I made a mild remark about how the Obama family are perceived. Big mistake. I will never make a comment about American politics again. Apparently it's none of my business!


Why are you letting someone run you off? You have every right to comment.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


Ditto.
Toby's Mom


----------



## Pope (Jul 25, 2011)

Four people were killed in Benghazi. MILLIONS were killed in Bush's war that he lied about to the American people.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Pope said:


> Four people were killed in Benghazi. MILLIONS were killed in Bush's war that he lied about to the American people.


So it's raw numbers with you. Some lives are worth more than others?


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

tamarque said:


> Most people don't know that Iraq War I cost about 1/2 million American lives. So many were not killed on the battle field but returned with such illnesses from radiation and biogerm warfare and batteries of toxic vaccines that they succumbed in a few short years. They are all deaths from the war. Their children, too, born after returning are often so damaged genetically from uranium causing genetic mutations. And the cancer rates are sky high. The list goes on. Most know about PTSD and the increasing suicide rates. And those still alive, are so dysfunctional due to the trauma and maiming of the war. Iraq War II, will have the same numbers over the next few years except for the fact that fewer people may have landed there, but the proportions will be just as high. War just does that and the more toxic the weaponry, the higher the damage. In a sense, WWII was kinder as people did not survive with such maiming of mind and body.
> 
> But the corporations have made millions and we the people have paid the bill while having our education system decimated along with health care, day care, housing and all social programs which is what our taxes should provide.


Well put... so much to consider... people need to take their heads out of the sand.


----------



## Patem (Nov 17, 2012)

Okay, if you really are his supporter, then you already know that grandma has been there the entire time and no we don't pay for her at all, they do. Otherwise I think you are really hoping to get something going on this site and it's a waste of time, the people on here are too intelligent to fall for it.


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## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

corvallis knitter... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

I know, I tricked myself before opening the thread. So, you have a good idea about the title naming.



CorvallisKnitter said:


> Bloody Hell - I forgot to unwatch this sucker. . . Thanks for the reminder.
> 
> No dang it - it did not take me 18 darned pages to "realize this". I simply opened it up this morning on the first page and placed my request and reply to the original post. My request just happened to land on the 18th page due to the amount of rapid (strong possibility mostly negative and trollish) feedback this post had already received. Not my fault or intent - and no - I have not read all 18 pages of vitriol that this post probably engendered.
> 
> ...


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

We can compare presidencies 'til thy kingdom come, but that does not exonerate the Obama presidency from all its flaws and all the irreparable changes and damage to our country in the HERE AND NOW. I want someone NEW, someone who will bowl us over with true American fervor and devotion to this great nation. I love this country and I mourn for it and its decline - I hope we rise again.
Toby's Mom


----------



## London1 (Jan 26, 2014)

I think there is a lot of people who can do better


----------



## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Inishowen has as much right as any other member to post on here. I would disagree with her about the Os, so what? 
You seem to me to be blind as to where you are being led; the absolute wrong of his policies; his utter lack of integrity; his replacement with 'buddies' at high levels and key posts; his devilish foreign policy; his utter incompetence when faced with real political leaders. 
Your media, like ours seems to be in the pockets of those in power. If you really want to learn what is going on, try googling these topics - the Bilderberg plan; the New World Order; the Illuminati; the Frankenburg Plan; the Common Purpose.
Don't yell at me - read and consider with an open mind. Then educate yourselves via the social media for a while. I hope you can waken up before it is too late, and take the power back into your own hands, as we are trying to do here via our new political party, the UK Independence Party.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How so?



GranmaD said:


> damemary It should bother you. Taxpayers DO pay for the Obama vacations.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


Why are you, if you are a supporter of President Obama, calling this a vacation?

Who else would you send to stay with the girls when their mother is out working at state events in the place of their grandmother who has been providing caregiving services all along?

Vacation? Is that the way you spend your vacations, with people you don't know having people blog about your clothes, and your hair, and your presentation to the heads of state?

So no, I don't agree with you if you want to call this a vacation you are reading and watching the wrong talking heads.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

silvercharms said:


> Inishowen has as much right as any other member to post on here. I would disagree with her about the Os, so what?
> You seem to me to be blind as to where you are being led; the absolute wrong of his policies; his utter lack of integrity; his replacement with 'buddies' at high levels and key posts; his devilish foreign policy; his utter incompetence when faced with real political leaders.
> Your media, like ours seems to be in the pockets of those in power. If you really want to learn what is going on, try googling these topics - the Bilderberg plan; the New World Order; the Illuminati; the Frankenburg Plan; the Common Purpose.
> Don't yell at me - read and consider with an open mind. Then educate yourselves via the social media for a while. I hope you can waken up before it is too late, and take the power back into your own hands, as we are trying to do here via our new political party, the UK Independence Party.


Those conspiracy theories sure are great fodder for the gullible, aren't they?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Toby's Mom said:


> We can compare presidencies 'til thy kingdom come, but that does not exonerate the Obama presidency from all its flaws and all the irreparable changes and damage to our country in the HERE AND NOW. I want someone NEW, someone who will bowl us over with true American fervor and devotion to this great nation. I love this country and I mourn for it and its decline - I hope we rise again.
> Toby's Mom


Rise again? To what? What would you have us aim for?


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

silvercharms said:


> Inishowen has as much right as any other member to post on here. I would disagree with her about the Os, so what?
> You seem to me to be blind as to where you are being led; the absolute wrong of his policies; his utter lack of integrity; his replacement with 'buddies' at high levels and key posts; his devilish foreign policy; his utter incompetence when faced with real political leaders.
> Your media, like ours seems to be in the pockets of those in power. If you really want to learn what is going on, try googling these topics - the Bilderberg plan; the New World Order; the Illuminati; the Frankenburg Plan; the Common Purpose.
> Don't yell at me - read and consider with an open mind. Then educate yourselves via the social media for a while. I hope you can waken up before it is too late, and take the power back into your own hands, as we are trying to do here via our new political party, the UK Independence Party.


It was asked: "Does anyone agree with me?" This thread has struck a very long cord! I happen to agree with YOUR sentiments 1100%.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Toby's Mom


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## Esti (Jan 18, 2013)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


All I say is Amen to that !!!!


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

cialea said:


> I have such a hard time understanding peoples memory loss.... And not just without their help but having to run into the brick walls they build...


To be more accurate, people should remember that after Obama's election I, the GOP stood up, raged and stated that his would be a one-term presidency. They would make sure that he got nothing accomplished. Then with the second win, the GOP went absolutely rabid with the same b.s. about his citizenship and blatantly racial attacks. I have to wonder how many threats on his life have been made compared to other presidents. People like Sarah Palin have not stopped trying to incite riots and attacks on Obama. Why hasn't she been arrested!

It never made logical sense to me that Obama appointed so many of the GOP neo-cons to office and that was not good enough for them. The main point is that the neo-cons really thought they had the whole govt coup sewn up and here comes a Democrat who is a person of color and the neo-cons (read neo-nazis) went berzerk. Obama's administration has promote just about all of the neo-con agenda. The ACA was the GOP plan--until it became the Dem plan, then suddenly it was a bad failure. I can only understand these moves by understanding how the real power works in this country. It is all about global control and destruction of civil liberties. It does not matter who is in office. The problem for the Dems is that they historically support more social net programs than the GOP and they are having a very hard time doing that given the corporate control of the political and economic arenas, especially after Citizens United. And let's keep in mind that the majority on the Supreme Court are reactionary and conservative people, including Thomas, not appointed by Obama. In foreign policy, the GOP and Dems are very similar. The Dems sometimes will prefer a non-military intervention as opposed to the GOP Shock and Awe. But bombing the crap out of a small nation that was decimated by 10 yrs of sanctions, only made the US the biggest terrorist in the world and the biggest bully on the block. The US is now forced to find non-public military means for its brutal take over of other countries to preserve its empty image and cut costs. These wars will bankrupt this country!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's it exactly. I can 'hear' the answer by just looking at the source.

Previously, I tried to read all sides and 'sift' it all together. No more.

There are some sources who have become so faulty, I don't bother. The lies and rumors are so far-fetched that I've discarded the sources. It bothers me a great deal when blogs are believed. There is no way to verify. They can say anything....and, sure enough some people will believe and repeat it.

It's called critical thinking. 


Huckleberry said:


> tamarque
> always consider the source and the answer is quite clear, isn't t!


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## Carmela51 (Jan 12, 2013)

I resisted getting in the fray, but has anyone considered (President Obama fan or not), how much more we are paying for the congress men and women, and their immediate family members to have excellent health care, free dinners and lunches, many more vacation days than the average working person in the US, less days of work per year than the average working person in the US. IF we the taxpayers paid for MIL to go to China to lend a hand with the young ladies consider it another good investment. There is some much of OUR money that is going for things that are beyond our control that I personally am not sweating this little stuff. And American history taught me that the president, whomever he is, or whether you like or dislike him, is not the one making the laws, The House of representatives (those same congress men and women with the privileges) propose the bills that are then sent up the chain of command. I don't know who paid for the MIL but I do know that I am paying for wars, missing my injured and missing military family members and friends, and it all started more than 8 years ago.


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Rise again? To what? What would you have us aim for?


A great nation, a nation of laws, a compassionate nation, a tolerant nation where people live in peace and seek peace for other nations. 
Toby's Mom


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sad, but true.



tamarque said:


> Most people don't know that Iraq War I cost about 1/2 million American lives. So many were not killed on the battle field but returned with such illnesses from radiation and biogerm warfare and batteries of toxic vaccines that they succumbed in a few short years. They are all deaths from the war. Their children, too, born after returning are often so damaged genetically from uranium causing genetic mutations. And the cancer rates are sky high. The list goes on. Most know about PTSD and the increasing suicide rates. And those still alive, are so dysfunctional due to the trauma and maiming of the war. Iraq War II, will have the same numbers over the next few years except for the fact that fewer people may have landed there, but the proportions will be just as high. War just does that and the more toxic the weaponry, the higher the damage. In a sense, WWII was kinder as people did not survive with such maiming of mind and body.
> 
> But the corporations have made millions and we the people have paid the bill while having our education system decimated along with health care, day care, housing and all social programs which is what our taxes should provide.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Google topics you suggest are old tales, thoroughly debunked over the year. Nothing new to consider.



silvercharms said:


> Inishowen has as much right as any other member to post on here. I would disagree with her about the Os, so what?
> You seem to me to be blind as to where you are being led; the absolute wrong of his policies; his utter lack of integrity; his replacement with 'buddies' at high levels and key posts; his devilish foreign policy; his utter incompetence when faced with real political leaders.
> Your media, like ours seems to be in the pockets of those in power. If you really want to learn what is going on, try googling these topics - the Bilderberg plan; the New World Order; the Illuminati; the Frankenburg Plan; the Common Purpose.
> Don't yell at me - read and consider with an open mind. Then educate yourselves via the social media for a while. I hope you can waken up before it is too late, and take the power back into your own hands, as we are trying to do here via our new political party, the UK Independence Party.


----------



## norma j mcguire (Feb 12, 2014)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


Mine either, but I will give one: no I better not, I will let any one guess.


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## Carmela51 (Jan 12, 2013)

I resisted getting in the fray, but has anyone considered (President Obama fan or not), how much more we are paying for the congress men and women, and their immediate family members to have excellent health care, free dinners and lunches, many more vacation days than the average working person in the US, less days of work per year than the average working person in the US. IF we the taxpayers paid for MIL to go to China to lend a hand with the young ladies consider it another good investment. There is some much of OUR money that is going for things that are beyond our control that I personally am not sweating this little stuff. And American history taught me that the president, whomever he is, or whether you like or dislike him, is not the one making the laws, The House of representatives (those same congress men and women with the privileges) propose the bills that are then sent up the chain of command. I don't know who paid for the MIL but I do know that I am paying for wars, missing my injured and missing military family members and friends, and it all started more than 8 years ago.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Right-O! This trip is to meet with dignitaries and shore up diplomatic relationships for heavens sake. Hopefully they will have time to recover from jet lag. Give them a break. It's easy to guess who the people are who've never taken long international trips. I enjoy seeing other cultures, but the trip can be exhausting.



Janet Cooke said:


> Why are you, if you are a supporter of President Obama, calling this a vacation?
> 
> Who else would you send to stay with the girls when their mother is out working at state events in the place of their grandmother who has been providing caregiving services all along?
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Fodder for the lazy too. That crapola has been floating around for eons.



Janet Cooke said:


> Those conspiracy theories sure are great fodder for the gullible, aren't they?


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## Irish knitter (Mar 29, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thank you. This is a typical international response.
> 
> I know I'm walking into this, but I'll ask anyway.
> 
> ...


He is only half black....


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

inishowen said:


> I got into it by accident too, and wish I hadn't. I made a mild remark about how the Obama family are perceived. Big mistake. I will never make a comment about American politics again. Apparently it's none of my business!


Do not be put off, the world is everyone's interest. Every country is international news all the time and even tho' everyone is allowed to have an opinion on Chat, they are discouraged from so doing because some others think their opinion is right, not just shared. Ireland was the topic of all countries for many years in the news and I dare say some on KP state more nastily than the press even dares at times to print. But that is freedom of speech, sometimes it bites. These folks are not my neighbours so not in mind when I turn the computer off. I for one love hearing from you and will be visiting your country in a few years to look for relatives.


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## Irish knitter (Mar 29, 2011)

why do the girls have to go along? If it is a state trip?


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Do not be put off, the world is everyone's interest. Every country is international news all the time and even tho' everyone is allowed to have an opinion on Chat, they are discouraged from so doing because some others think their opinion is right, not just shared. Ireland was the topic of all countries for many years in the news and I dare say some on KP state more nastily than the press even dares at times to print. But that is freedom of speech, sometimes it bites. These folks are not my neighbours so not in mind when I turn the computer off. I for one love hearing from you and will be visiting your country in a few years to look for relatives.


Thank you. I hope you enjoy your trip to Ireland.


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

damemary said:


> Fodder for the lazy too. That crapola has been floating around for eons.


Gullible and lazy....Why is it that whenever we start these "chit chat" inquiries and we start out by discussing our opinions, and suddenly it quickly descends into name calling. 
Please folks, let people opine and believe what they want. Express your opinion respectfully. We are not all the same. 
We have different belief systems, different upbringings, different views, etc. Perhaps if you think someone is gullible or lazy for accepting certain theories, you might let them think so, whilst you do not.
Toby's Mom


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## Maureen B (Jan 7, 2013)

i agree with SherrySherry politics are a personal preference and liike religion each to their own and nothing to do with knitting.


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

In the general chit chat part of the fourm you may discuss anything even if it isn't about knitting or the like. Politic's and religion are hard subjects. With that said, no the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for all these vacations. I don't recall a President or his family taking so many. The MIL is the nanny to the President's daughters and she according to he job description must accompany them. In that we as taxpayers have to flip the bill to a point as long as it is in the lady's job. No I will not give any other opinions except I can't wait for time to vote in a new President.


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## k2p3-knit-on (Oct 24, 2012)

Mrs. Robinson doesn't like to be in the news. She "does her thing" quietly. I wasn't aware the President's family was in China but on the world scene it's better to have friends than enemies so perhaps a friendly visit by someone with tact would accomplish more good than sending someone "with a big club" to represent us. I know nothing about the funding but from this country's founding this country has paid the way for so many officials' junkets this hardly merits my attention.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Of course I look at all that stuff. History never begins with one individual. It is a story that goes on and on. History is His Story, a white, ruling class male perspective in a white, male patriarchal culture. Situations seem to change but really stay the same. WE can change the faces, but unless the core structure is changed, it will always remain the same. Thus when the GOP reactionaries gained control of the Supreme Court, it became possible to call the Bush election despite the bald-faced lie of it all. And as long as the power structure remains the same, so will the political tendencies that create policy and practice.

So we have secret cabals like the Bilderbergs and Illuminati and now the American ALEC group that create laws and policies that push a totalitarian agenda. That is why arguing about Obama and who paid his MIL's plane fair is beyond ridiculous. 

There was a small effort to challenge Congress to give up their Cadillac health insurance for the same one of the average American. You know where that effort went. But anyway we have NO health insurance in the US: it is all Medical insurance designed to suck more money into Big Pharma and the insurance companies. Fair Elections? Of course it is not on the agenda for a vote. Without Fair Elections and getting corporate money out the political process we are in hot water. When a candidate wins the popular vote, that should be it. However, our election process is rigged. That was the intent of the Electoral College even when it was set up. You know, how to give more electoral power to Southern States who would not tolerate a Black vote but wanted more voting power without such a significant part of the population. Nothing has changed today either. That is why we have the fight about Voter Ids and the fraudulent removal of people from voting roles who happen to be Black or Democratic voters.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Irish knitter said:


> He is only half black....


 :?: :?: :?: :?: I don't understand your point.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Rise again? To what? What would you have us aim for?


Maybe she is waiting for the South to rise again.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you travelled a lot, would you take your family if you could? I would.



Irish knitter said:


> why do the girls have to go along? If it is a state trip?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the reminder. It's difficult.



Toby's Mom said:


> Gullible and lazy....Why is it that whenever we start these "chit chat" inquiries and we start out by discussing our opinions, and suddenly it quickly descends into name calling.
> Please folks, let people opine and believe what they want. Express your opinion respectfully. We are not all the same.
> We have different belief systems, different upbringings, different views, etc. Perhaps if you think someone is gullible or lazy for accepting certain theories, you might let them think so, whilst you do not.
> Toby's Mom


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> If you travelled a lot, would you take your family if you could? I would.


Of course, if someone else was paying for it.


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> It is illegal to pay for extra guests with govt money EXCEPT if they actually serve a public interest for being there. And that has always raised questions with every politician who uses the public coffers for travel. Why single out Obama, except for the blatant racism that exists in this country.
> 
> As for Obama's track record? I worked for him on the first campaign and felt obliged to vote for him the second time around given the total insanity of the GOP candidate and that party's blatant social agenda. Both parties have followed the same political hegemonic tendencies for many years. Why people dislike him always amazes me since he has supported all the wars and military adventures the country can manage which has been the GOP agenda.
> 
> ...


Oh the poor little mis-understood president! He is the one that is always saying "it will be my way or no way" Sounds more like a dictator to me?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

1. This is not a VACATION.

2. The taxpayers do NOT pay for the family.

3. Other Presidents have taken as many or more trips.



Ciyona said:


> In the general chit chat part of the fourm you may discuss anything even if it isn't about knitting or the like. Politic's and religion are hard subjects. With that said, no the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for all these vacations. I don't recall a President or his family taking so many. The MIL is the nanny to the President's daughters and she according to he job description must accompany them. In that we as taxpayers have to flip the bill to a point as long as it is in the lady's job. No I will not give any other opinions except I can't wait for time to vote in a new President.


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

Irish knitter said:


> He is only half black....


Finally someone speaks the reality and not the fantasy!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm missing something here. Perhaps someone can explain the significance of President Obama being "half-black." Thank you.



loravaughn said:


> Finally someone speaks the reality and not the fantasy!


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

Toby's Mom said:


> We can compare presidencies 'til thy kingdom come, but that does not exonerate the Obama presidency from all its flaws and all the irreparable changes and damage to our country in the HERE AND NOW. I want someone NEW, someone who will bowl us over with true American fervor and devotion to this great nation. I love this country and I mourn for it and its decline - I hope we rise again.
> Toby's Mom


Thank you Toby's Mom for your statements. Our country has become the laughing stock of the world because of this president and his wife who make no bones about the fact they do not even like our great country. We need someone who will work to pull everyone back together. I personally did not like Bill Clinton, but the man could get both sides to come together to accomplish what needed to be done. How can I as a 70 year old woman who still has to work to make ends meet and to pay my own bills instead of depending on hand outs to do so, endorse someone who has increased the national debt by trillions (twice in four year what Bush did in eight) and can do nothing but talk about raising taxes and if you do not believe that the ACA is not a tax, wait until next year when you file your taxes. Just my opinion which I a entitled to as well as all you Obama supporters.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm missing something here. Perhaps someone can explain the significance of President Obama being "half-black." Thank you.


You're always missing stuff you don't want to see.


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## Twoie (Mar 19, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


I like to keep my friends so I don't discuss politics or religion. Works for me.
Linda


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm missing something here. Perhaps someone can explain the significance of President Obama being "half-black." Thank you.


Give a good laugh here to keep from screaming. In a country where 1/8 Black blood made you Black, no matter how white your skin, now we have an argument that someone who is 1/2 black is not really a person of color in a racist society. This reminds me of listening to the Isreali argument that justifies its 50 apartheid racist laws and worms and squirms to avoid dealing with its colonialist efforts in that region. This is pure insanity. It sounds like words being thrown around as if something meaningful is being said when it is only the sound of bigotry.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

You see across the world, and in Europe in particular new movements are beginning to try to break the stranglehold of huge vested interests and give back a voice and power to the people. Did you hear about the huge peaceful demo in Madrid today? Probably not. 
In countries which already have difficult problems of religious strife, these Arab Springs have descended into bloody anarchy. But in more stable democracies they are growing - UKIP is presenting a real challenge to established political parties here. 
But where is America's 'Spring'? You can't all be deluded by this charlatan? He and his supporters are only in it for what they can get, and they hope to establish 'what they can get' into solid concrete politics, with you as underclass. 
I salute the Bikers, as the precursors, but do you know what? Because it is the ordinary people who are most hit and most protesting, other voters turn their backs because such people aren't 'classy' enough.


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## nitnana (Feb 3, 2013)

23 pages so far - oh, my! I missed some of the comments but President Obama's mother was white - his father black - hence, I believe someone must have said he was 1/2 black (1/2 white, too!) And I don't believe the Govt. is paying for the grandmother's travel expenses. Maybe the family is paying for all of it! We should check before we criticize! I have more trouble with those "junkets" Congressmen take to foreign countries to "supposedly" check into the schools, businesses, etc,. and just go touring! Those ARE paid by the Govt.!!! This President can do nothing right. If he golfs, he gets criticized- other Presidents golfed much more - no disapproval! Nuff said -


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Yes, Silvercharms. There are always populist uprisings against tyranny. What the people of this country can't seem to take in is that these uprisings tend to be democratic in nature, and seek more democratic assurances. However, this country has attacked every single democratic election if that election did not produce the leader that the US chose. This is blatantly tyrannical. What gives the US the right to decide on how another country votes? But that is the hegemonic goals in action. To add the funnies list, The US spends millions to disrupt legally elected and stable nations in order to gain control of those countries. However, people, as on this list, get bent out of shape over how many strips a Black president makes. This country spent over $5 million to fund a neo-nazi disruption and coup in the Ukraine in order to squeeze Russia and encroach on its territory and resources. But news from Fox 5 to CNN blathers on about the ills of Russia in perfect propaganda form promoting lie upon lie. This is not Obama, or even the Dems. As you mention, it is all from the global corporate elite and their effort to own it all at any expense.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Yes, Silvercharms. There are always populist uprisings against tyranny. What the people of this country can't seem to take in is that these uprisings tend to be democratic in nature, and seek more democratic assurances. However, this country has attacked every single democratic election if that election did not produce the leader that the US chose. This is blatantly tyrannical. What gives the US the right to decide on how another country votes? But that is the hegemonic goals in action. To add the funnies list, The US spends millions to disrupt legally elected and stable nations in order to gain control of those countries. However, people, as on this list, get bent out of shape over how many strips a Black president makes. This country spent over $5 million to fund a neo-nazi disruption and coup in the Ukraine in order to squeeze Russia and encroach on its territory and resources. But news from Fox 5 to CNN blathers on about the ills of Russia in perfect propaganda form promoting lie upon lie. This is not Obama, or even the Dems. As you mention, it is all from the global corporate elite and their effort to own it all at any expense.


And do you not think Obama is part of it?


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## Dorie21 (Mar 12, 2012)

We all have our opinions....me well thinking or talking about him makes my ulcers Bleed...no more said...


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## Stephhy (May 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


I know that Presidents of any party have to follow strict rules about what is paid for or not.

For example, certain dinners in the White House are paid for by the President, not the government.

The article I read said that sometimes that comes as quite a shock to the First Ladies, especially if they find out after the fact. :lol:


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

I have NOTHING NICE to say about anything connected with Obama,
So I shall say NOTHING.


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## grammyv (Feb 11, 2011)

Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


Ditto! According to the UK Daily Mail Grandma is not making a good impression!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586367/Beijing-hotel-workers-fed-Obama-entourage-3400-square-foot-8-350-night-suite-inconveniencing-pretty-ladys-mother-barking-staff.html

Keep on knitting! :thumbup:


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## seemyart (May 31, 2013)

the news said we paid. as to my feelings about the incompetent king and queen (and queen in law) with a huge sense of entitlement and arrogance, why no, I have nothing to say


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe she is waiting for the South to rise again.


Perhaps you need to read MY reply rather than assume I am a bigot?


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## HB123 (Aug 5, 2013)

He needs to keep peace at home :lol: :lol:


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## DeniseCM (Aug 30, 2012)

........ that your problem is paying for your President's MIL, who may be a care giver, nanny and/or granny) to vacation in China with her family? 
I wish our problem was as simple. Our President has FOUR wives (that we know of, girlfriends, lovers???) and 20+ children! Mmmmm, wonder what your reaction would be to that?
And I'm not sticking around for your response. I got to page 13 and when I came back from dinner, it was on page 23 and it is most likely waaaaay past that now. 
Enjoy the battle Ladies - this is not a war easily won!?!?!


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

seemyart said:


> the news said we paid. as to my feelings about the incompetent king and queen (and queen in law) with a huge sense of entitlement and arrogance, why no, I have nothing to say


The news? What news? Who is behind the news? How much of the news is a blatant lie? The vast amount of it I say. I want to see independent, unbiased reporting to make me feel anything close to comfortable with what I hear. Otherwise, I will apply my understandings and analysis to the drivel that get put out in the mainstream media.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> I have NOTHING NICE to say about anything connected with Obama,
> So I shall say NOTHING.


First, these no comment comments are your comment. And the repeat of them is your rant that is heard loud and clear.

Second, if you think Obama is so bad, who do you think would lead this country in another direction? And what should that direction be?


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## HB123 (Aug 5, 2013)




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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

loravaughn said:


> Oh the poor little mis-understood president! He is the one that is always saying "it will be my way or no way" Sounds more like a dictator to me?


What makes your comment so disingenuous is that you show no balance in the political arena. Where are your criticisms of the Bush/Cheney show that talked about the New World Order? Where are your critiques about their lies about Iraq?
And let's not forget the 9-11 debacle with all its blatant lies. And how do you feel about Bush calling the entire public "the consumers." He clearly showed what he thought of the public in that statement. The problem is that you offer no balanced understanding and only rail as the TeaParty reactionaries do about this horrid president.


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## HB123 (Aug 5, 2013)

Every job has its perks !


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## HB123 (Aug 5, 2013)

You may wish to listen to BBC News program


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

dragonswing wrote:
Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.

All I say is Amen to that !!!!

Esti

That is pretty funny, quote "grandma" saying to keep quiet if you can't say something nice and then say something that is unnecessary and not very nice. And get kudos for it, besides. 
Brava.


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## missylam (Aug 27, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

damemary and janet Cooke Of course they have to drum up bogus reasons so Mrs. Obozo can take these expensive overseas excursions. To meet with diplomats etc etc. What a wonderful way to have the kids visit other countries and "learn". As long as it on the taxpayers dime. And the American people fall for these ruses. Gullible!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> First, these no comment comments are your comment. And the repeat of them is your rant that is heard loud and clear.
> 
> Second, if you think Obama is so bad, who do you think would lead this country in another direction? And what should that direction be?


There sure is some heavy duty, unjustified hate out there, what do you suppose causes it?


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## NingNing (Jun 8, 2012)

No, I don't agree with the original poster, all presidents and family go on all sorts of expensive vacations. Funny how you pick this one to complain about. Personally, after the horror we went through with the last president, I'd think all the haters would be ashamed to point themselves out. Don't like the president's politics, fine, but the family, let's not sink that low. After all, all taxpayers have been paying for many presidents' bimbos and such, why worry about some family on vacation?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

tamarque said:


> Give a good laugh here to keep from screaming. In a country where 1/8 Black blood made you Black, no matter how white your skin, now we have an argument that someone who is 1/2 black is not really a person of color in a racist society. This reminds me of listening to the Isreali argument that justifies its 50 apartheid racist laws and worms and squirms to avoid dealing with its colonialist efforts in that region. This is pure insanity. It sounds like words being thrown around as if something meaningful is being said when it is only the sound of bigotry.


But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?

No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Tamarque, please, do you think Obama is a part of the global conspiracy or not?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

silvercharms said:


> Tamarque, please, do you think Obama is a part of the global conspiracy or not?


LOL, I love a great laugh. Thanks.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Too many Fox News viewers!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> Too many Fox News viewers!


Too much of something, for sure, too many whackadoodle bloggers?


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

We want the truth do we watch Fox news.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?
> 
> No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?


I think, Empress, that tarmarque is right. 
In an effort to avoid sounding biased people come up with any excuse they can think of to dislike the twice elected leader of the US. 
There is not a single cogent discussion point about his policies unless I missed it, just way, way out there silliness. 
Maybe the people who shout that there shouldn't be any political discussion on this site are correct. It seems that people want to suggest that they are talking politics when what they mean is that they cannot stand one politician.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The President of the United States does not act alone. And President Obama has been targeted by right-wing elements since election to his first term. He came from a background of community organizing to develop plans that help communities to support the people. He is no elitist, IMO.

In answer to your question, no, I do not believe that President Obama is part of the corporate elite who have destroyed our middle class.....much less what the corporate elite have managed to do to the poor (increase their numbers exponentially.)



silvercharms said:


> And do you not think Obama is part of it?


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?
> 
> No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?


I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

inishowen said:


> I got into it by accident too, and wish I hadn't. I made a mild remark about how the Obama family are perceived. Big mistake. I will never make a comment about American politics again. Apparently it's none of my business!


Please don't think all of us feel the way that poster does. We are all human beings before nationalities enter into it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope Grandma would not approve.



Janet Cooke said:


> dragonswing wrote:
> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.
> 
> All I say is Amen to that !!!!
> ...


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There sure is some heavy duty, unjustified hate out there, what do you suppose causes it?


I have been asking myself that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Read my lips. This is not a vacation and they personally pay for their part of the trip. There is nothing to criticize, unless facts are not important to you.



GranmaD said:
 

> damemary and janet Cooke Of course they have to drum up bogus reasons so Mrs. Obozo can take these expensive overseas excursions. To meet with diplomats etc etc. What a wonderful way to have the kids visit other countries and "learn". As long as it on the taxpayers dime. And the American people fall for these ruses. Gullible!


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## Condia (Jul 24, 2012)

HAHA, WOW is all I can say! Not going to follow this post at all my blood pressure is high enough as it is.



angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let me think. What could it be? There is no fact to justify it.

????



Janet Cooke said:


> There sure is some heavy duty, unjustified hate out there, what do you suppose causes it?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
> I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


I cannot believe that you actually can say with a straight face that you know the content of that man's character. 
You hate him? Seriously? 
Hate is a despicable emotion, one that people should struggle against not brag about.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And this isn't even a vacation. They're working for the United States of America.



NingNing said:


> No, I don't agree with the original poster, all presidents and family go on all sorts of expensive vacations. Funny how you pick this one to complain about. Personally, after the horror we went through with the last president, I'd think all the haters would be ashamed to point themselves out. Don't like the president's politics, fine, but the family, let's not sink that low. After all, all taxpayers have been paying for many presidents' bimbos and such, why worry about some family on vacation?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Let me think. What could it be? There is no fact to justify it.
> 
> ????


Read the denials of someone like that person who hates him due to the content of his character. God save me from people like that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you're right.



Ahirsch601 said:


> Too many Fox News viewers!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

GranmaD said:


> We want the truth do we watch Fox news.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> And this isn't even a vacation. They're working for the United States of America.


I would love to know who labeled this a vacation. It is a diplomacy mission.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



Janet Cooke said:


> I think, Empress, that tarmarque is right.
> In an effort to avoid sounding biased people come up with any excuse they can think of to dislike the twice elected leader of the US.
> There is not a single cogent discussion point about his policies unless I missed it, just way, way out there silliness.
> Maybe the people who shout that there shouldn't be any political discussion on this site are correct. It seems that people want to suggest that they are talking politics when what they mean is that they cannot stand one politician.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

I have begged my cable provider to let me opt out of Fox News. Too much hate and ignorance and not a brain in sight. God forbid my grandchildren hear any of that unchristian evil rhetoric!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> Give a good laugh here to keep from screaming. In a country where 1/8 Black blood made you Black, no matter how white your skin, now we have an argument that someone who is 1/2 black is not really a person of color in a racist society. This reminds me of listening to the Isreali argument that justifies its 50 apartheid racist laws and worms and squirms to avoid dealing with its colonialist efforts in that region. This is pure insanity. It sounds like words being thrown around as if something meaningful is being said when it is only the sound of bigotry.


Oh Tamarque, My Smart Tamarque,

How easy it is to criticize Israel for Imperialism. Tell me what country has not done the same thing Israel has done to create their nation and acquire land? Why is Israel always held to a higher standard? Why is the international community never shown all the good Israel does globally? Did you hear that israel was one of the earliest responders to the lost plane? Do you ever hear how quickly Israel responds to any global tragedy? No nation is perfect and certainly not the one you are writing from. But think about all the human rights violations going on in Asia, Africa, Russia, and other countries in the Middle East before you denounce Israel. I suggest reading some info from the Israeli perspective before you swallow what you are spouting.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I cannot believe that you actually can say with a straight face that you know the content of that man's character.
> You hate him? Seriously?
> Hate is a despicable emotion, one that people should struggle against not brag about.


Did I brag??? I don't remember bragging about my hate of this man. I know of his policies and what he says in public and that all deserves my lack of respect and his pitting the people against each other is a despicable thing to do as a president. THAT alone brings hate to my heart because he is supposed to lead this country to greatness not tear it down the way he has. I maintain he has done this as a result of his beliefs and tendencies to dislike the US and all of it's people. 
Yes what I say here I mean SERIOUSLY. Get over yourself. These are my opinions, like them or not.
What really cracks me up is the way some people will say he is the greatest president, then turn around and say he has little power. Which is it? Seriously?


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## ramram0003 (Nov 7, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Stephhy (May 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


Someone mentioned that the "news" said the trip was paid for by the gov't. I'm sorry to have to say I don't believe very much of what ANY news media says.

If they say things I do agree with, I suspect they've left stuff out of the picture. Or twisted things to fit their viewpoint.

If they say things I don't agree with, I think they've left stuff out of the picture. Or twisted things to fit their viewpoint.


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

We all got tricked !!!!!


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

Are you sure tax payers are paying for her trip. Mrs. Obama comes from a family with money, pretty sure her mother can pay her own way.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Michelle likes to spend money. I don't care if she spends hers. I don't care if the taxpayers cover her travel costs for official visits, but vacations should be paid for by the worker. I think all travel costs outside the US should be pro-rated based on official functions each day. Businesses handle travel in that way and so should our government. Businesses don't pay for vacations unless someone is on official business.

China is just the latest in a long line of vacations with a few governmental duties manufactured along route. Here are a few:

In 2010 - Half a million dollars for Michelle, her younger daughter, friends, and staff (because she made one courtesy call on the King of Spain) and they spent the rest of the vacation in Malaga and Majorca on the beach.

In 2012 - $60-$100 million dollars for Barrack and Michelle to visit Africa. 

This post would be way too long if all the Obama vacations were listed. The problem I see is lack of transparency of costs and flagrant disrespect by the Obama's for these costs being paid by struggling Americans.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

No wonder the country is in such terrible shape. It has always been said that the American people are gullible. And you say :this is not a vacation. For heavens sake open your eyes and get your brain in gear. Both have been non functioning for a long time it seems. Yes he was elected twice and voter fraud works. I don't think he knows what the truth is. Also low information voters help his cause. Jay Leno sure tired to show how little voters know about their own country. Their responses to his questions on the segment "Jay Walking" were an embarrassment. Some didn't even know where Wash. D.C. is. When asked if they vote the answers were "yes" Is it a wonder the country is in the miserable shape it is in!


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

calisuzi said:


> Are you sure tax payers are paying for her trip. Mrs. Obama comes from a family with money, pretty sure her mother can pay her own way.


Her family is not wealthy. Barrack and Michelle have money from his books and some good money handling advice from George Soros.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Read my lips. This is not a vacation and they personally pay for their part of the trip. There is nothing to criticize, unless facts are not important to you.


Speaking of facts, and those who don't want to admit to them. 
I am just guessing that firstladies. org is NOT part of a world wide campaign to take over the world. 
The do like to make sure that people have the truth to use when forming opinions, though. Ain't it grand?

http://www.firstladies.org/blog/foreign-trips-of-incumbent-first-ladies/


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Stephhy said:


> Someone mentioned that the "news" said the trip was paid for by the gov't. I'm sorry to have to say I don't believe very much of what ANY news media says.
> 
> If they say things I do agree with, I suspect they've left stuff out of the picture. Or twisted things to fit their viewpoint.
> 
> If they say things I don't agree with, I think they've left stuff out of the picture. Or twisted things to fit their viewpoint.


The New York Times and Huffington Post are hardly media unfriendly to the Obama's. Google Obama vacations. They'll give you the amounts spent.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

GranmaD said:


> No wonder the country is in such terrible shape. It has always been said that the American people are gullible. And you say :this is not a vacation. For heavens sake open your eyes and get your brain in gear. Both have been non functioning for a long time it seems. Yes he was elected twice and voter fraud works. I don't think he knows what the truth is. Also low information voters help his cause. Jay Leno sure tired to show how little voters know about their own country. Their responses to his questions on the segment "Jay Walking" were an embarrassment. Some didn't even know where Wash. D.C. is. When asked if they vote the answers were "yes" Is it a wonder the country is in the miserable shape it is in!


Those people out on the street were taken by surprise in an interview. It happens all the time. 
We all have our opinions about who "low information" voters are. Some of us would say it is people who make their judgments about the condition of the country by clips from the Jay Leno show that are an embarassment. 
Gullible, indeed.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

more for Tamarque"

http://safeshare.tv/w/OXHZUxUXXN

I am posting this for you to carefully note the various signs posted in the background of Hadassah Hospital. Israeli hospitals will serve Arabs, Israelis or any one in need. Name me one other country in the Arab world that would treat a Jew? I also want to make mention that Hadassah Hospital both trains and employs Arabs. What Arab hospital can make that claim?

Now I will get back to Obama and Family who also will ruin this world according to the 'enlightened' posters here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry to interrupt fun with facts, but I can't resist. 

GW Bush holds the prize for most VACATION days while serving as President, 879 days, most in his second term.


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

damemary; not true don't know where you got your info...tell us....


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

Janet Cooke - another one who needs to get her brain in gear and try to analyze, if at all possible for you. to understand why someone like Obama can get elected twice.


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## Avalon37 (Aug 2, 2011)

Or mine!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

GranmaD said:


> Janet Cooke - another one who needs to get her brain in gear and try to analyze, if at all possible for you. to understand why someone like Obama can get elected twice.


So Cooke's brain is out of gear because she disagrees with you? Then I proudly declare my brain out of gear also. Rather have my gears totally stripped than share your world view.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting information. The USA has had many First Ladies who have served as roving ambassadors for the USA throughout the world.



Janet Cooke said:


> Speaking of facts, and those who don't want to admit to them.
> I am just guessing that firstladies. org is NOT part of a world wide campaign to take over the world.
> The do like to make sure that people have the truth to use when forming opinions, though. Ain't it grand?
> 
> http://www.firstladies.org/blog/foreign-trips-of-incumbent-first-ladies/


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

That is very true but he didn't run the country Dick Cheney did! Let's not forget 2 important facts when Bush took office we had a surplus and President Obama inherited a huge deficit. 2) 911 happened on George Bushes watch. A bigger blunder than Benghazi I would say. GWB was a laughing stock throughout the world.


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

I vote for Knitting Paradise doing away with the ChitChat page!! let's get back to KNITTING and CROCHETING and other crafty endeavors!!
Toby's Mom


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

I say more scarves, more chemo caps, more baby stuff, more shawls, more hats, more coats, more embroidery, more jewelry, more pretty stuff!! especially more puppies!!
Toby's Mom


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## diane647 (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sorry to say that politics are something that doesn't belong on this forum. Just my humble opinion.


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

I repeat, I vote for Knitting Paradise doing away with the ChitChat page!! let's get back to KNITTING and CROCHETING and other crafty endeavors!!
Toby's Mom


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Toby's Mom,

What is compelling you to go on the chat page? Just don't click on it and let the rest of us enjoy the debate.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

tatesgirl said:


> The MIL? What about the 70 staff?


The White House Staff was in place before the Obamas got there. It was in place before any of our presidents got there. It is the same as the Oval Office, Secret Service, Air Force 1, and all the rest. On Inauguration Day, the former president walks out, and the new president walks in, after he takes the oath. Most White House Staff members work there for decades, until they retire. What president can say that?

Michelle Obama had to beg her mother to move into the White House with them. She knew their duties would not allow them to always be present with their children and wasn't about to leave them with the staff. Her mother is not a paid employee--she's grandma. The Obama's pay her personal expenses, as she is part of their family and household. I read once, where her mother would not allow the staff to clean her room or do her laundry. She hand washes her own things and often does the cooking, much to the dismay of the kitchen staff.

The only difference between the Obamas, all the Bushes, the Clintons, the Nixons, the Carters and the Johnsons is, the Obamas are black and there are many people who can NOT abide a black family in the White House. .

I never heard a complaint spoken about former presidents' families travel, vacations, White House weddings, etc. Only the Obamas are criticized. I think we all know the source of these Obama bashing ideas. It really is sickening to know this country hasn't really come that far since the 60s. It is absolutely shameful.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

brava to kathycam! You said it all and so perfectly.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Let's not forget either Laura Bush taking her daughters on an African Safari in 2007. Where was the outrage then?


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Well said! Hilary for 2016!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> So Cooke's brain is out of gear because she disagrees with you? Then I proudly declare my brain out of gear also. Rather have my gears totally stripped than share your world view.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

And still they find more ways to spend our hard earned money


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Toby's Mom,
> 
> What is compelling you to go on the chat page? Just don't click on it and let the rest of us enjoy the debate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put.



kathycam said:


> The White House Staff was in place before the Obamas got there. It was in place before any of our presidents got there. It is the same as the Oval Office, Secret Service, Air Force 1, and all the rest. On Inauguration Day, the former president walks out, and the new president walks in, after he takes the oath. Most White House Staff members work there for decades, until they retire. What president can say that?
> 
> Michelle Obama had to beg her mother to move into the White House with them. She knew their duties would not allow them to always be present with their children and wasn't about to leave them with the staff. Her mother is not a paid employee--she's grandma. The Obama's pay her personal expenses, as she is part of their family and household. I read once, where her mother would not allow the staff to clean her room or do her laundry. She hand washes her own things and often does the cooking, much to the dismay of the kitchen staff.
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> That is very true but he didn't run the country Dick Cheney did! Let's not forget 2 important facts when Bush took office we had a surplus and President Obama inherited a huge deficit. 2) 911 happened on George Bushes watch. A bigger blunder than Benghazi I would say. GWB was a laughing stock throughout the world.


Ahirsh601
Clinton handed over a surplus and Bush nothing but debt debt and more debt. May we never forget the thousands of lives lost and tens of thousands disabled for life. How much worse can it get? In addition let us not forget the damage "no child left behind" has done for decades to come. What a failure of an administration Bush/Cheney has been.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Toby's Mom said:


> I vote for Knitting Paradise doing away with the ChitChat page!! let's get back to KNITTING and CROCHETING and other crafty endeavors!!
> Toby's Mom


Toby's Mom
the choice is yours to not participate. By the way I knit a lot plus do many other things, one of them is reading, reading and more reading. It keeps me abreast of lies and truth.


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

kathycam....what you said is true about inheriting staff, secret service, etc...the big complaint has nothing to do with color of skin....it is in the papers daily what he has spent on his own enjoyment....$102,000 for dog handler on trips....talk about outrageous !!


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Those people out on the street were taken by surprise in an interview. It happens all the time.
> We all have our opinions about who "low information" voters are. Some of us would say it is people who make their judgments about the condition of the country by clips from the Jay Leno show that are an embarassment.
> Gullible, indeed.


Is it your contention that because they were surprised that people didn't know or couldn't say where Washington DC is? Give me a break. And bashing someone for their opinion is just what you guys do to mitigate the truth they speak. Yes, Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" did show that low information voters are out there in droves. There have been other episodes similar to those shown by Jay Leno that show the same or even worse evidence of low or no information voters. Ones that had people signing to do away with the Bill pf Rights. Ones that thought Obama Care was better than the ACA, I could go on and on and yes I think they do represent a large population of people. I guess if you don't care enough to be educated you don't care and would deserve the government you get. I don't need to be lead by the nose as some here do to know what is going on. If I get in the way of your bashing posters on this thread, tough. If you can't make your points without making fun of someone you have no point to make.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

SQM said:


> Toby's Mom,
> 
> What is compelling you to go on the chat page? Just don't click on it and let the rest of us enjoy the debate.


Well..let's see...I went to look as I do all of KP, landed on ChitChat and thought of making A comment and then I saw how normal discourse deteriorated to bashing and making people feel bad. It never seems to end well, no matter the subject. My DH just read some of the pages and he said: "I don't see how people can be enjoying that so called, debate. Everyone has "a little piece of truth" in their comments, they just need to accept the other's truths as their own".
That is why I love this man!  
Toby's Mom


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

felix said:


> kathycam....what you said is true about inheriting staff, secret service, etc...the big complaint has nothing to do with color of skin....it is in the papers daily what he has spent on his own enjoyment....$102,000 for dog handler on trips....talk about outrageous !!


Please direct me to the newspapers that made this claim and the approximate date so I can see for myself. The Obamas are wealthy people so how they spend their money is none of our business. Show me proof from a reputable source that supports your contention.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> So Cooke's brain is out of gear because she disagrees with you? Then I proudly declare my brain out of gear also. Rather have my gears totally stripped than share your world view.


I just consider the source, SQM, anyone who judges the American voter by watching late night entertainment on television certainly doesn't have much going on to judge my intellect.


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## Dobby4 (Mar 5, 2014)

Don't really want to get into it. I enjoy you all too much. Look at whitehousedossier.com. This blog is written by a former White House reporter.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

felix said:


> damemary; not true don't know where you got your info...tell us....


Don't hold your breath! They demand facts yet never produce their own.


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## Sheilak1 (Feb 20, 2012)

I can't wait for these eight years to be over....


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I just consider the source, SQM, anyone who judges the American voter by watching late night entertainment on television certainly doesn't have much going on to judge my intellect.


You mean you don't judge voters by all information available? HMM? You just judged her and she never said that is the only criteria used to form her judgement. Like I said If you only are here to bash people you don't have much to add to the conversation.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

damemary Go get a cat scan of your brain. wonder if it will show anything but an empty film. Or maybe a big malignant tumor that has eaten your gray matter if any was even ever there. Low information voters like you are what is making this country look weak.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Well said Huckleberry


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

ParkerEliz said:


> Wish I had a delete button for some of these threads....


You can delete them. It is called "unwatch" which is at the top left. Click on "unwatch" and they will be deleted from your email so you will not get any further posts.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

GranmaD said:


> damemary Go get a cat scan of your brain. wonder if it will show anything but an empty film. Or maybe a big malignant tumor that has eaten your gray matter if any was even ever there. Low information voters like you are what is making this country look weak.


Again, I only copied this remark to show the other readers just how low a responder can get. For those who complain about Cooke, et al, please note the above.

My sister-in-law is dying of a brain tumor and your reference sickened me. Calling karma!!!!!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, as I took a prescription to the drug store to treat H-Pylori & it cost $650.00! Pharmacist told me if I could have had it filled before Obocare, it wouldn't have coat that much!
> 
> Get your facts people before you praise Obo!!!!!


Jane, do you have Medicare or aren't you old enough?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

tamarque said:


> All these people who 'won't express their feelings' are expressing their feelings. Unfortunately these comments appear to be self-righteous and self-serving and offer no information, only personal prejudice.
> 
> As for non-US members commenting? I have no problem. One so far made a really ignorant statement and the other liked the Obama family but who knows why. These comments provide no thoughtful commentary and, in my book, are just emotional utterances.
> 
> Bernie for president? Love that man. He has the balls to speak his mind and remain an independent thinker. He also is not afraid to take on the corporate power structure and to speak on behalf of the people. However, they would not allow him to debate publicly any more than they allowed Dennis Kucinich to do so. This is called manipulating the public via mass media propaganda. Kucinich would have had the audiences in standing ovations throughtout any debate--experience demonstrated that. He showed up everyone else who skirted around every issue, saying nothing of consequence. But that nothingness was the message.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

DQM don't be over sensitive....we all know what she meant about an empty brain....


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Please direct me to the newspapers that made this claim and the approximate date so I can see for myself. The Obamas are wealthy people so how they spend their money is none of our business. Show me proof from a reputable source that supports your contention.


There are sources galore, SQM, you judge whether they are reputable or not. I think they are pretty funny.

http://planet.infowars.com/uncategorized/obamas-dog-has-100000-handler

http://wafflesatnoon.com/does-obama-pay-dog-trainer-102000-at-tax-payer-expense/

http://minutemennews.com/2013/03/obama-furloughs-fda-inspectors-keeps-100k-first-family-dog-walker/


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitbreak said:


> Keonknitter , tell me where it is written that GW knew before hand that the Twin Towers were going to be a target. I do remember that an agent had informed the Clinton administration of a threat on the US. The media did report this after the fact, but there was no reporting of where it would take place. Some thought it would be on Wall St.Also, you said that so much work that Obama does takes place behind close doors .So shouldn't you apply the same
> conclusion to GW.How do you know that he(GW)wasn't working on preventing an attack. It seems that you also have a one sighted political nature.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Sorry to interrupt fun with facts, but I can't resist.
> 
> GW Bush holds the prize for most VACATION days while serving as President, 879 days, most in his second term.


Has anyone ever figured out how much it cost for GW to set up a White House at his ranch in Texas, where he spent most of his time, when he wasn't traveling around the country on Air Force 1, fund raising? How much did President Bush's trip cost, to go read a story to elementary school students on the day the towers were hit? How much did his fund raising trip out west cost, when Katrina hit? How much was the cost of Reagan's "Western White House" in California? All presidents and their families travel all the time, and yet the cost has never been an issue before President Obama took office.

President Obama was born and raised in Hawaii, but when HE goes home on vacation, certain news media have fits about the cost. Where were they when President Bush's daughter went to Africa? I think we all know why, only the Obamas get the flack for the way all presidents and their families have to travel. It's disgraceful.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I am almost speechless at the ongoing repeat emptiness of most of the comments. I was asked this: Obama is part of the problem because he is in the president's seat. However, he is not the author of it. He has hardly any power at all not being part of the 1% as were/are Bush and Cheney. The Obamas's money is new money which means it is not respected by the Powers-that-be. Remember Powell as Secy of State? Remember how he was put in the stupid position of going before the UN and claiming WMD and the aluminum tubes and showed a photo of a trailer in the middle of nowhere's? I watched that presentation and listened to international commentary on what he said. I was so embarrassed for this man. Once he accepted the political position, he was impotent to change the course of the neo-con agenda. The world laughed at him for his lies and stupidity. Obama is like that. Yes, he is part of the system of power, but he is not the author of it. I still think, as a liberal, he thought he could stem the tide of globalist assault on civil liberties here at home. But as a liberal, he also, missed understanding how he was getting sucked into a system that would overtake him totally. I have to say that he is one of the very few politicians who has come out in any way trying to put a cap on the Isreali expulsion and genocide of the Palestinians and he has taken a heap of crap for speaking out, even minimally. He has also supported some civil liberties and rights for women here at home. I think he has betrayed the Black community being too fearful to be seen as being 'too' Black. But so many white people don't see this; all they see is that he is Black and not hard enough on people of color. He has deported more people of color than even Bush. But remember Bush liked his Mexicans. He understood how much his cronies in Texas & the SW profit by that cheap labor. He understood that cheap labor kept wages depressed for Americans and legal immigrants. So I see Obama in his limited position despite all the hooplah about being president. I can only imagine if the GOP had the White House how much worse it would be. Job numbers would be even lower. The neo-con agenda is to depress all labor, destroy unions, mechanize all industry or put massive numbers in prison where they work for $1 or less/hour producing for the likes of AT&T and IBM. And outsourcing of the rest of manufacturing and service industries grew rampantly under Bush. Doesn't anyone remember the neo-con mantra about controlling the courts? Not only did they put some very reactionary activists on the Supreme Court and other courts, they are now intentionally obstructing any other voices from being appointed in this administration. Controlling the courts controls the decisions that support Corporate theft of jobs, wages, benefits, environmental protections, health and safety, etc.

I guess I see him the same way that I see the isolated woman in a male environment. She is too often so busy trying to be accepted and not being seen as other, that she loses herself. She doesn't see when she has become the very problem that has prevented her from making advances based on her ability. It is very lonely being 'the only one.' And that I speak from years of experience.

As for Isreal? I really dont care about a lone hospital sign. It is the 50 racist laws that a fundamentalist government has passed to limit the movement and rights for survival of a people of color. It is the heavy handed assaults against children for minimal reactions to massive oppression. The racism of Isreal is worse in many ways than the racial profiling in the US and that is pretty horrific. Just recently an African-American musician made a trip to Isreal with a group of people. His description of what he saw was shattering to any emotional equanimity. What was just recently done to Code Pink's Media Benjamin when she attempted to enter Palestine was not just illegal, it was a blatantly criminal and terrorist act against her. The killing of an American peace activist was even more chilling as a bulldozer ran over her more than once even tho she was visible to the driver. This was another act of intentional terrorism. I tend to read the group of rabbis against the occupation and other Isreali progressive peace groups and individuals. I tend to look at the Palestinian movement against the apartheid wall which is a peaceful movement. As ignorant as Americans are about much of the country's politics, it is equally ignorant of what goes on elsewhere. And given the amount of money given annually by the US ($3 billion in military aid), more than any other country, I think Americans should pay attention to what is being done with that money. Murdering children and causing miscarriages and birth deaths is genocide being done in my name with my money and I can't support that. So that there is a school with both Arab and Isreali control in one small area, while nice, does not characterize the govt and what its goals are.

I want to end by sharing this piece from today:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38036.htm

It may seem off topic but not really. It is about how a piece of the system works and how it tries to control any questioning or dissent. I have a lot of respect for Chris Hedges, his experience as a journalist, he real independence and willingness to speak out. There are lessons to be learned from him.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> One news report state that Obama had his daughters listed so he did not have to pay for their air fare! CROOK!
> 
> Anyone who voted for this ass hole does not have any room to gripe! Obama is destroying America and is a LIAR! He isn't even a full blooded black person and I haven't figured out which end of him is black - both ends smell!
> 
> I have NEVER voted for him and will NEVER vote for him - saw through his BS when he was running the first time. Sad so many people were so dumb as to re-elect him. When America is ruled by communist you can thank your vote!


Gee, tell us how you really feel


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Is it your contention that because they were surprised that people didn't know or couldn't say where Washington DC is? Give me a break. And bashing someone for their opinion is just what you guys do to mitigate the truth they speak. Yes, Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" did show that low information voters are out there in droves. There have been other episodes similar to those shown by Jay Leno that show the same or even worse evidence of low or no information voters. Ones that had people signing to do away with the Bill pf Rights. Ones that thought Obama Care was better than the ACA, I could go on and on and yes I think they do represent a large population of people. I guess if you don't care enough to be educated you don't care and would deserve the government you get. I don't need to be lead by the nose as some here do to know what is going on. If I get in the way of your bashing posters on this thread, tough. If you can't make your points without making fun of someone you have no point to make.


I did not bash you for your opinion, I commented on what you say is the source of your opinion. 
Are you honestly going to maintain that you have never been taken by surprise and been speechless or given a silly answer when surprised? or maybe asked a question to which the answer was so obvious that you felt the fool for asking? 
YOU are the one making fun of people who were interviewed on the street. I am simply stating, and I will again, that anyone (you included) who uses a skit from a late night talk show to judge where our nation is lacks judgment.
You should go talk to KittyKatzmom, she says she will never vote for President Obama in the future. Maybe you should send her to be interviewed on the street...


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I did not bash you for your opinion, I commented on what you say is the source of your opinion.
> Are you honestly going to maintain that you have never been taken by surprise and been speechless or given a silly answer when surprised? or maybe asked a question to which the answer was so obvious that you felt the fool for asking?
> YOU are the one making fun of people who were interviewed on the street. I am simply stating, and I will again, that anyone (you included) who uses a skit from a late night talk show to judge where our nation is lacks judgment.
> You should go talk to KittyKatzmom, she says she will never vote for President Obama in the future. Maybe you should send her to be interviewed on the street...


I did not make fun of anyone. Maybe your read that into it. I just stated that many people are no or low information voters. And no I wouldn't be so speechless as to not know where Washington DC is or that the Bill of Rights should not be repealed. It takes someone with no information to do that.
If you don't use that then what do you use? What gives you the information to judge how informed people are? I didn't say that is the only information I use, but it certainly brings it to light. 
And again you can't wait to bash me or anyone else who disagrees with you. You just can't leave that out of your discussion because to argue only the facts wouldn't make your argument. You have to bash people for their opinions to cover the fact that this POTUS is a disgrace. Plain and simple.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.
> 
> Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)


There was a massive job loss under the Bush administration and sorry, but there is no way to just flip a switch and have them stop. It takes a while. 
Why don't you try comparing our defense budget to other countries. I really wonder where all that money goes. I would bet there is a huge amount wasted, like was in Iraq during the Bush years. 
There were 13 embassy attacks during the Bush years and many many people killed. Who accounted for and paid for them? 
The IRS "scandal" has been proven to be false, yes that is right, it has been proven that they targeted both conservative and liberal groups. One word---changing exclusively to primarily is what gave groups the power to declare themselves to be "primarily" social welfare groups. Groups that do nothing but promote one party or the other should not be tax exempt, as they are doing nothing for social welfare. Lois learner was going to testify through a "proffer," which means her lawyer would tell Darrell Issa everything that she would have said if she were to testify, but Issa wouldn't let it happen. He does not want to hear the truth, and if he can continue to avoid the truth, then he can keep the lie going. That is all he really wants to do do, just put as many lies out there as he can, and you fall for everyone. 
If by being "eons stronger" you mean we can invade other countries that have done nothing to us, then we don't need to be stronger. 4,486 American soldiers in Iraq and for what? For oil, just so American could get control of the oil and it didn't happen anyway. The invasion began in March of 03 and on May 1st of 03 Bush declared "Mission accomplished." President Obama had to bring it to an end, because Bush was such a failure. President Obama had to get BinLaden because Bush was such a failure and said "I really don't spend that much time on him." He was behind killing 2,977 people and Bush didn't spend much time on him. I think that is disgusting. 
As far as the debt if we had a republican president, the tax cuts would have continued to go to the 1% and we would have huge cuts in social security and Medicare would have been turned into a voucher system, which means seniors would no longer have medical care. The snap program would have had more cuts than it already has and children would be starving to death and the republicans would not care. 
The only way republicans are able to win is by cheating. Gerrymander the districts and get rid of early voting and pass new laws to keep minorities from voting. That is how they operate.


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## GranmaD (Jul 29, 2012)

No sense in commenting further here. When dealing with airheads it is best to move on and let them stew in their own ignorance and lack of judgment. I think Kitty Katzmom would be able to give intelligent responses as to why she would never vote for Obama. Anyone who makes a statement like that has her head on straight. Oh would we have more of the Kitty Katzmans! The only problem is that the airheads are bringing down this country so far that I fear we will never be able to recover.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


What makes you think the tax payers are paying for her to be on the trip. The haters make assumptions like that, don't become on of them.


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## seemyart (May 31, 2013)

romney


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


You can dislike our president if you wish, but what has Mrs Obama and the children and her mother ever done to you?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I did not make fun of anyone. Maybe your read that into it. I just stated that many people are no or low information voters. And no I wouldn't be so speechless as to not know where Washington DC is or that the Bill of Rights should not be repealed. It takes someone with no information to do that.
> If you don't use that then what do you use? What gives you the information to judge how informed people are? I didn't say that is the only information I use, but it certainly brings it to light.
> And again you can't wait to bash me or anyone else who disagrees with you. You just can't leave that out of your discussion because to argue only the facts wouldn't make your argument. You have to bash people for their opinions to cover the fact that this POTUS is a disgrace. Plain and simple.


The only "facts" that can be argued are those that you bring forward, the ones that you then want to disavow when you are shown how shallow it is to use them. 
My knowledge of political information is all over these boards, how about if you share some information about what makes President Obama a disgrace? 
It can't be that he doesn't know where DC is...


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I did not make fun of anyone. Maybe your read that into it. I just stated that many people are no or low information voters. And no I wouldn't be so speechless as to not know where Washington DC is or that the Bill of Rights should not be repealed. It takes someone with no information to do that.
> If you don't use that then what do you use? What gives you the information to judge how informed people are? I didn't say that is the only information I use, but it certainly brings it to light.
> And again you can't wait to bash me or anyone else who disagrees with you. You just can't leave that out of your discussion because to argue only the facts wouldn't make your argument. You have to bash people for their opinions to cover the fact that this POTUS is a disgrace. Plain and simple.


PS. I didn't say you bashed me, I quoted your response to someone else.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


But wouldn't it be awesome if the republicans thought as much of our country as they do of the republican party and were willing to work with the democrats and our president instead of "blocking everything he tries to do?"


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

JuneS said:


> No, but in eight years he did a good job of making it worse.


It is a hard job to clean up the previous presidents mess, especially when the republicans will not help. They sure enjoyed making the mess. Where was all their "cut spending" during the previous 8 years?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'll say it! Why are we paying for their personal vacations?!? Ok, I can see paying for the secret service agents to protect them. But beyond that? Will the government pay for MY vacation?


Last time I checked, you didn't live in the white house, so no.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The only "facts" that can be argued are those that you bring forward, the ones that you then want to disavow when you are shown how shallow it is to use them.
> My knowledge of political information is all over these boards, how about if you share some information about what makes President Obama a disgrace?
> It can't be that he doesn't know where DC is...


I am not disavowing anything I have written or believe. What makes Obama a disgrace is the way he flaunts playing golf and vacationing while telling good American citizens they haven't sacrificed enough. Or preaching about redistributing wealth, while he spends more and more. He is a disgrace because he doesn't respect the flag or our National Anthem when it is played by placing his hand over his heart. He is a disgrace because he incites division among the American people instead of being the voice of reason. He is also a disgrace because he feels it is his duty to preach to us about our ability to make a business work by telling us we didn't do it ourselves. 
I really don't care if you have all the political information available. These are character traits, he has very low ones.


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

NJG she married an conceited air head..


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

sometimes knitter? right on....loved your thoughts


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I agree


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> I trust that he follows the rules whatever they may be when it comes to family members, but if the law allows him to take his entire family on vacation at the taxpayers' expense, I'm all for it. They all deserve some rest and recuperation from the stress in that house.


And they deserve the same things previous presidents received.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

That is an old post from the Democrat Party. Very basis.


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

I hope you put your battle suit, and dug a huge bunker! I have no idea why anyone would want to post a political question on a knitting forum given the toxic climate of political opinion in contemporary America. Moreover, this is an international forum, so perhaps we should not wash our dirty linen in public.


Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

loravaughn said:


> Thank you Toby's Mom for your statements. Our country has become the laughing stock of the world because of this president and his wife who make no bones about the fact they do not even like our great country. We need someone who will work to pull everyone back together. I personally did not like Bill Clinton, but the man could get both sides to come together to accomplish what needed to be done. How can I as a 70 year old woman who still has to work to make ends meet and to pay my own bills instead of depending on hand outs to do so, endorse someone who has increased the national debt by trillions (twice in four year what Bush did in eight) and can do nothing but talk about raising taxes and if you do not believe that the ACA is not a tax, wait until next year when you file your taxes. Just my opinion which I a entitled to as well as all you Obama supporters.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

This would be great for the Democrats seeing as where it's put out by them but it's almost 3 THREE years old. Try again.


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I am not disavowing anything I have written or believe. What makes Obama a disgrace is the way he flaunts playing golf and vacationing while telling good American citizens they haven't sacrificed enough. Or preaching about redistributing wealth, while he spends more and more. He is a disgrace because he doesn't respect the flag or our National Anthem when it is played by placing his hand over his heart. He is a disgrace because he incites division among the American people instead of being the voice of reason. He is also a disgrace because he feels it is his duty to preach to us about our ability to make a business work by telling us we didn't do it ourselves.
> I really don't care if you have all the political information available. These are character traits, he has very low ones.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I saw the MIL with Mrs. Obama and the girls last night on the news. Do you know for sure that her trip was paid for by taxpayers?


YES, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY. THERE MUST BE SECRET SERVICE. AND GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Celt Knitter said:


> I hope you put your battle suit, and dug a huge bunker! I have no idea why anyone would want to post a political question on a knitting forum given the toxic climate of political opinion in contemporary America. Moreover, this is an international forum, so perhaps we should not wash our dirty linen in public.


Yeah we should just keep on keeping on. That's what the PTB have pinned their hopes on for years. And it looks like it's working just fine for them.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

You may be working a lot longer if some of these far right crazies get into office. They will be after those great government programs called social security and Medicare!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> You may be working a lot longer if some of these far right crazies get into office. They will be after those great government programs called social security and Medicare!


Great is a over statement if you are relating it to the recipients.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> If they were paying for it themselves, that would be all over the news. Wonder why the news reporters were banned from this plane? First time in history that has happened. You would almost think they had (gasp) something to hide from the American Public!!


So if you were in their shoes and had two young girls on this trip, would you want reporters to be around them all the time? Do you remember how reporters trashed Chelsey Clinton? People like Rush Limbaugh were down right nasty to her. I think they have the right to protect their children. If it were a republican first lady, I guarantee you, you would think it was a great idea. You are obviously one of the haters and no matter what the president or his family does, it is wrong, and has been that way since day one. Get a life!


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

njg look at date on that chart...are you nuts??


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> So if you were in their shoes and had two young girls on this trip, would you want reporters to be around them all the time? Do you remember how reporters trashed Chelsey Clinton? People like Rush Limbaugh were down right nasty to her. I think they have the right to protect their children. If it were a republican first lady, I guarantee you, you would think it was a great idea. You are obviously one of the haters and no matter what the president or his family does, it is wrong, and has been that way since day one. Get a life!


Let's get something straight here. None of us have said we hate the President. Get that fact straight. And you don't need a link for it.


----------



## Lal (Aug 18, 2013)

If you don't talk about it nothing will ever change. Every one is entitled to their own opinion and you have to put your money where your mouth is!! Just stand up and be counted.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> For future information, there is a section on Knitting Paradise called, "The Progressive Women's Forum." That is where you go to post political thoughts. "Main" is for knitting and crochet questions. Sometimes we get to responding on these political posts and our thoughts run away with us! We can give a bad impression to those who aren't interested in either our USA politics or our bad manners. After all, this is a worldwide forum and we don't want to drive our friends away. Just sayin'.....


Then why are you posting?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Tamarque:

israel is far from perfect but hardly the worst country on the planet. The history of most countries are horrific. Humans are vicious predators.

Now please share your opinion on Jews. Thanks.

To get back on topic, did the presidents of Israel take as many vacations as Obama does?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> This would be great for the Democrats seeing as where it's put out by them but it's almost 3 THREE years old. Try again.


If you want to prove it wrong that's on you. What would change?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> If he couldn't finish it why start? Let someone else who could have.


If Bush couldn't finish it, why start?


----------



## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

This thread was actually good reading until the bashing started. You BULLIES should be ashamed of yourselves! You can't make your arguments without resorting to name calling and put downs? Real conviction there, folks! It's like kindergarten all over again. No wonder America has the reputation it has. Peace out!


----------



## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

If this is "not hating" I dread to think what "hating" looks like!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> I can see you are spoiling for an argument because you are nitpicking at what you want to see as opposed to what is in black & white. You also, more than likely hear what you chose to hear rather than what is said. You will not bait me.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Tamarque:
> 
> israel is far from perfect but hardly the worst country on the planet. The history of most countries are horrific. Humans are vicious predators.
> 
> ...


Does anyone even see the President of Israel?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> No - I don't agree with most of the posts and I am not interested in having another conversation with you -- Been there done that too many times - don't enjoy them so am not going to bother.


You are so smart Shirley. Some things are just a waste of time.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Wen you posted this it didn't seem as though you had read the part about him actually being last of all the presidents (which he is, imo). When this was on facebook a lot of people assumed that because it said he was fifth that it meant there were many behind him. But because of all the ties he actually came in last.


Now, come on. You know Bush has last place all sewed up and will never loose it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> As a care giver, then surely she is is also on the pay roll, all benefits included, I have never been paid to look after my grandchildren.


If she is being paid, it is by the President and his wife, not the tax payers. I don't know what kind of arrangements have been made for the children and I don't think it is actually any of my business. No she is not on the tax payers pay roll.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jdwilhelm said:


> It is not necessarily saying something that is not nice to comment on something you think is wrong. 20 years ago when the country had a great economy, this trip would have been overlooked. Today, there are former middle class families living in cars and getting food from churches, etc. so it gives the appearance of the first family spending money unwisely. Those in leadership should be examples, not cause gossip about what they do.


But, it is republicans complaining because it is a democrat in the white house, and I never heard a word from them when all the money was spent to invade Iraq.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> You can dislike our president if you wish, but what has Mrs Obama and the children and her mother ever done to you?


Oh - I am sure she was sitting there figuring out how to take advantage by taking her Mother to look after her girls while she was doing First lady duties. First first family that took a sitter with them. She has been called every filthy name imagineable.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> YES, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY. THERE MUST BE SECRET SERVICE. AND GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Something different than Republican Presidents or are you saying they pay the Secret service themselves. Why the Caps --

I was under the impression the first Family is protected no matter what Party they are from. Correct me if I am wrong. Does that mean he is doing something wrong there too???


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Referring to Social Security and Medicare, the recipients don't think it's an overstatement. Many rely on these benefits. Even Ron and Nancy Reagen applied for theirs. Most people in USA today have little or no savings at retirement.



WindingRoad said:


> Great is a over statement if you are relating it to the recipients.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Let's get something straight here. None of us have said we hate the President. Get that fact straight. And you don't need a link for it.


" Maybe you should read the posts -- what about the bottom line of this one????

Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)

I know you read and are involved with the Political threads - Hate against him is the word there --


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

taborhills said:


> My opinion? Why should we be paying for any of them to travel yet again? Michelle Obama was not elected. Presidents' wives usually do not travel abroad except with their husbands. Children? Why? The Chinese invited Mrs. O, but why? To promote friendship? Ha. To promote US debt? It's all too bizarre.


For 15 years, Laura Bush and four female friends have escaped together for a week every summer. They arrived at Mammoth Lakes on July 8, 2001 and a day later came to Tuolumne Meadows Lodge with an entourage of some 25 people, including Secret Service agents, a White House communications team, various aides and several park officials. The group took up about 15 of the 70 cabins at the site.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_vacation_days_did_Laura_bush_take_while_her_husband_was_president

I think I also read that Laura Bush made 5 trips to Africa. OMG, did we have to pay for those?????


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You sound unbalanced. I don't see 'flaunting' or disrespecting the flag or National Anthem. Please refrain from joining the discussion if you can't keep your temper in check.



SometimesaKnitter said:


> I am not disavowing anything I have written or believe. What makes Obama a disgrace is the way he flaunts playing golf and vacationing while telling good American citizens they haven't sacrificed enough. Or preaching about redistributing wealth, while he spends more and more. He is a disgrace because he doesn't respect the flag or our National Anthem when it is played by placing his hand over his heart. He is a disgrace because he incites division among the American people instead of being the voice of reason. He is also a disgrace because he feels it is his duty to preach to us about our ability to make a business work by telling us we didn't do it ourselves.
> I really don't care if you have all the political information available. These are character traits, he has very low ones.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> For 15 years, Laura Bush and four female friends have escaped together for a week every summer. They arrived at Mammoth Lakes on July 8, 2001 and a day later came to Tuolumne Meadows Lodge with an entourage of some 25 people, including Secret Service agents, a White House communications team, various aides and several park officials. The group took up about 15 of the 70 cabins at the site.
> 
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_vacation_days_did_Laura_bush_take_while_her_husband_was_president
> 
> I think I also read that Laura Bush made 5 trips to Africa. OMG, did we have to pay for those?????


Good question -- I wonder why it is okay for one family, but not the other --


----------



## Stephhy (May 14, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Michelle likes to spend money. I don't care if she spends hers. I don't care if the taxpayers cover her travel costs for official visits, but vacations should be paid for by the worker. I think all travel costs outside the US should be pro-rated based on official functions each day. Businesses handle travel in that way and so should our government. Businesses don't pay for vacations unless someone is on official business.
> 
> China is just the latest in a long line of vacations with a few governmental duties manufactured along route. Here are a few:
> 
> ...


The $100 million trip expense was debunked long ago. Bachmann said she "read it somewhere" - a newspaper in Spain, I think. The trip didn't cost anywhere near that.

See what I mean about the media?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG, your information on the debt is superb. Thank you for the precise numbers.


----------



## Stephhy (May 14, 2012)

damemary said:


> You sound unbalanced. I don't see 'flaunting' or disrespecting the flag or National Anthem. Please refrain from joining the discussion if you can't keep your temper in check.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Stephhy. I'm trying hard to be reasonable and polite.



Stephhy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> It is illegal to pay for extra guests with govt money EXCEPT if they actually serve a public interest for being there. And that has always raised questions with every politician who uses the public coffers for travel. Why single out Obama, except for the blatant racism that exists in this country.
> 
> As for Obama's track record? I worked for him on the first campaign and felt obliged to vote for him the second time around given the total insanity of the GOP candidate and that party's blatant social agenda. Both parties have followed the same political hegemonic tendencies for many years. Why people dislike him always amazes me since he has supported all the wars and military adventures the country can manage which has been the GOP agenda.
> 
> ...


Besides republicans would go to a voucher program to replace Medicare. Each person would be allowed a certain amount for your insurance premium and you would pay the amount over that. Does anyone believe that the voucher would come close to covering it, keeping in mind that there would be no ACA and private insurance companies could charge whatever they wanted?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

taborhills said:


> In a democracy, it is safe and proper and even advisable to question our elected
> leaders on their choices. If we had not objected to government voices in the
> 18th C, we might not be a country at all, and certainly not the country we are.
> Freedom of expression is basic. Questioning is not disrespect, in fact, the opposite.


I agree, questioning what goes on in government is necessary. But what is going on in this thread by the haters is assumption and repeating it as the truth. That is wrong and unfair.


----------



## grammacat (Nov 30, 2011)

Nor mine.


Anna Nother nitwit said:


> If you are an Obama fan I'm sure you don't want my opinion either.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

hildy3 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm with you Sherry.
> Many of the "originals" have left because of posts like these that seem to go on for pages! It's too bad that reading the rules is not a requirement for joining. No religion..no politics! As for me, My country..my President!
> Maggie


Sorry, but that is not part of the rules. Anyone who doesn't like this thread does not have to read it. I guess I don't understand why people continue to read, and then post and complain. No one has to read these posts. We do have free speech in this country.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> YES, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY. THERE MUST BE SECRET SERVICE. AND GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And this has been paid for every first lady for life just as it is for every president. So why is this suddenly a special problem for this president and his family?


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> There are sources galore, SQM, you judge whether they are reputable or not. I think they are pretty funny.
> 
> http://planet.infowars.com/uncategorized/obamas-dog-has-100000-handler
> 
> ...


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Then you'd complain about paying for a baby gift


kittykatzmom said:


> Truth is EVERYONE in this world knows that America has a weak leader. Wait until Russia bombs our country and see how well you like Obama. He has used Executive power more than any other president - because he wants to be a dictator. Bad when even the Russian president is laughing at Obama!
> 
> Do you hear of any other countries inviting the Obama's to visit?
> Were they invited to William and Kate's wedding? Did they send a gift from
> America to the wedding or birth of Prince George? The answer is HELL NO!


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does anyone even see the President of Israel?


I don't understand your question? But from my reading, the Isreali president doesn't seem to have much importance.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> If she is being paid, it is by the President and his wife, not the tax payers. I don't know what kind of arrangements have been made for the children and I don't think it is actually any of my business. No she is not on the tax payers pay roll.


I don't remember anyone being all up in arms about chaperones for the teenagers in the White House.

As a matter of fact, I don't remember a peep when either President Clinton or President Bush extended SS coverage for their children after they left office. 
I don't remember anyone getting upset about Condi Rice having an extension on her SS coverage. Geez, why would anyone begrudge someone sleeping in a room so that they can care for their grandchildren?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I don't understand your question? But from my reading, the Isreali president doesn't seem to have much importance.


That was pretty much what I was asking SQM was who the heck would even recognize the Prez other than maybe PM Netanyahu.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ParkerEliz said:


> Wish I had a delete button for some of these threads....


You do. Just don't read and don't comment and you won't get reminders when someone post something on them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kathycam said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > There are sources galore, SQM, you judge whether they are reputable or not. I think they are pretty funny.
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mehunt1950 said:


> I haven't read through the entire string of thoughts and replies. The question actually is does it cost that much to add one more person to the plane (probably not), hotel (no) and meals (maybe). The advantage (emotionally, psychologically) to the daughters of having Grandmother (in addition to Secret Service) along for times when they are not included in events is probably worth whatever it would cost additional. But I simply don't see the need for such expensive and on my $$$ for family.


How do you know how much it costs and what makes you believe the family is being paid for by tax payers?


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

NJG said:


> Besides republicans would go to a voucher program to replace Medicare. Each person would be allowed a certain amount for your insurance premium and you would pay the amount over that. Does anyone believe that the voucher would come close to covering it, keeping in mind that there would be no ACA and private insurance companies could charge whatever they wanted?


What the GOP/Tea Party wants to do with Medicare is the same program for education and everything else. Privatization is their game knowing that it will make mega profits for the CEO's while impoverishing the public. That political tendency is from a rabidly sociopathic personality. But the bottom line is that Capitalism is inhumane at base. There is no room for emotions or humanistic values. Actually Capitalism is completely antagonistic to Democracy. But in this country with its 1984 Newspeak, people have been lulled into thinking Capitalism is Democracy and this is true for people on both sides of the political aisle. Talk about dumbing down the masses of people.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> Then you'd complain about paying for a baby gift


Actually, it seems that a gift was sent. Big secret...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/politics/obamas-royal-baby-gift/index.html


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> YES, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY. THERE MUST BE SECRET SERVICE. AND GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The same source that paid for all the Bushes travel, and every other presidential family's travel. None of them can travel without Secret Service. Even when President Reagan was bedridden with Alzheimer's for years, (and traveling nowhere), the Secret Service was there. Why blame the Obamas for something that comes with the territory and always has?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GranmaD said:


> damemary and janet Cooke Of course they have to drum up bogus reasons so Mrs. Obozo can take these expensive overseas excursions. To meet with diplomats etc etc. What a wonderful way to have the kids visit other countries and "learn". As long as it on the taxpayers dime. And the American people fall for these ruses. Gullible!


Nothing clouding your judgement, is there?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

grammacat said:


> Nor mine.


But you gave it anyway


----------



## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


Why won't she speak to the press or have her picture taken?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

GoodyTwoShoes said:


> I didn't vote for Obama either time because of his policies and his ideas. I don't care if he's blue, yellow, or purple he is still IMHO an ineffective president so spare me anyone who disagrees with him is a racist.


All you have to do is compare how he has been disrespected and the things that have been said about him to previous presidents. Think about all the "dog whistles" for instance, that have been said. 
When Congressman Doug Lamborn of Colorado says he doesn't even want to be associated with President Obama because its like touching a ********, do you think that may be a bit racist? Everyone says oh no, not me, I'm not a racist. Sorry, but I have to question that.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Actually, it seems that a gift was sent. Big secret...
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/politics/obamas-royal-baby-gift/index.html


What WAS the gift? This article is pure conjecture on what the US should send as a gift.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Got your facts wrong--you must have your head in the sand. I won't say anymore as cannot say anything nice about Obo!!!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


The name calling is part of the disrespect we have been talking about.


----------



## momskii (Oct 25, 2012)

dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


I'm with you and sorry that I chose to read this


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


Taxes do not pay for family vacations.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> Why won't she speak to the press or have her picture taken?


Why should she?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Please don't assume the Obo's pay for any trips as they don't pay, you pay! Thought you were a person on the Right side of things!


And what proof do you have that they don't pay for any trips. More of that assumption with no proof.


----------



## collectordolls (Oct 27, 2013)

JuneS said:


> No, but in eight years he did a good job of making it worse.


So true


----------



## Thatbella (Jan 9, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> For future information, there is a section on Knitting Paradise called, "The Progressive Women's Forum." That is where you go to post political thoughts. "Main" is for knitting and crochet questions. Sometimes we get to responding on these political posts and our thoughts run away with us! We can give a bad impression to those who aren't interested in either our USA politics or our bad manners. After all, this is a worldwide forum and we don't want to drive our friends away. Just sayin'.....


Well said, I am from Australia and reading all of this on knitting site is really not what it should be about.
Perhaps a different venue needs to be found for this type of passionate discussion - because it does shut the rest of us out, it all about America, America, America.
We have the same political issues in Australia as I am sure they do in every country - but it would be nice to escape them here.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> Why won't she speak to the press or have her picture taken?


Because doing so would make her a public figure, she is not. She doesn't want to be and why would the press want to talk to her or take her picture?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thatbella said:


> Well said, I am from Australia and reading all of this on knitting site is really not what it should be about.
> Perhaps a different venue needs to be found for this type of passionate discussion - because it does shut the rest of us out, it all about America, America, America.
> We have the same political issues in Australia as I am sure they do in every country - but it would be nice to escape them here.


Two choices, I see... don't read a thread about American politics. 
Start a thread about Australian issues.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

loravaughn said:


> He sure does not reimburse the tax payer for what it cost to fly Air Force One and Air Force Two, pilots, secret service personnel, etc.! That comes out of our pocket!


And which president in a previous administration reimbursed the tax payer?


----------



## Kanitter (Jan 26, 2014)

Mercygirl76 said:


> :thumbup: you are so right. The girls' grandmother has lived with them since they moved to the White House and helps care for the girls --- in my opinion, a much better arrangement than a hired nanny. Shows true family values. Another one of the many reasons I am a staunch Obama supporter


Michelle's mother was living with them before he became president.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Thatbella said:


> Well said, I am from Australia and reading all of this on knitting site is really not what it should be about.
> Perhaps a different venue needs to be found for this type of passionate discussion - because it does shut the rest of us out, it all about America, America, America.
> We have the same political issues in Australia as I am sure they do in every country - but it would be nice to escape them here.


Sorry to say but you aren't required to read this or any other post if you don't like them. Why would you read it and then complain, when it's so simple to avoid it. I don't mind you voicing your opinion on our politics.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> So if you were in their shoes and had two young girls on this trip, would you want reporters to be around them all the time? Do you remember how reporters trashed Chelsey Clinton? People like Rush Limbaugh were down right nasty to her. I think they have the right to protect their children. If it were a republican first lady, I guarantee you, you would think it was a great idea. You are obviously one of the haters and no matter what the president or his family does, it is wrong, and has been that way since day one. Get a life!


I can remember back to the Johnson administration and how horrible the news media was about their daughters--disgusting comments about their looks, their clothes. It was then, that I realized, for the first time, that the media considers female appearance to be fair game for their comments, no matter how ugly. They went easier on Trisha Nixon. Before the Clintons moved into the White House, they consulted with their predecessors on how to protect their daughter from the media. They tried to make it clear to them that their daughter was NOT public property and it seems Chelsea got off a little easier than the Bush twins.


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bravo! Well put.


Thanks damemary!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kathycam said:


> I can remember back to the Johnson administration and how horrible the news media was about their daughters--disgusting comments about their looks, their clothes. It was then, that I realized, for the first time, that the media considers female appearance to be fair game for their comments, no matter how ugly. They went easier on Trisha Nixon. Before the Clintons moved into the White House, they consulted with their predecessors on how to protect their daughter from the media. They tried to make it clear to them that their daughter was NOT public property and it seems Chelsea got off a little easier than the Bush twins.


.... no matter how ugly... were you referring to the the media as being ugly or females being ugly. Hard to tell there.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> But wouldn't it be awesome if the republicans thought as much of our country as they do of the republican party and were willing to work with the democrats and our president instead of "blocking everything he tries to do?"


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> And they deserve the same things previous presidents received.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> The Obama's do not pay for their own children to fly - so why would they pay for the MIL?


Maybe because the mother in law is not a dependent.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I voted for President Obama. And I don't agree with most of the things our government spends our tax money on.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

inishowen said:


> How dare you! You are a very rude women. Why don't you butt out of my life.


Just need to ignore her. She is like that all the time. You may comment any time you want and you certainly don't need her permission.


----------



## collectordolls (Oct 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Thank you. This is a typical international response.
> 
> I know I'm walking into this, but I'll ask anyway.
> 
> ...


Why does everyone forget he had a white mother. And race is not the issue here it is whether his mother-in-law should be included on his trip to China. Which I think she should be because she does take care of the children. The question is why were the children in China in the first place.


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think history will treat President Obama very well. Opinion is clouded by what is going on in the United States right now. Lobbyist money's advertising and media influence bombards people with rumor and lies. Sadly, many people don't seem to have the critical thinking skills to think for themselves. History will see President Obama differently than they do. IMO


Hear! Hear!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitbreak said:


> Keonknitter , tell me where it is written that GW knew before hand that the Twin Towers were going to be a target. I do remember that an agent had informed the Clinton administration of a threat on the US. The media did report this after the fact, but there was no reporting of where it would take place. Some thought it would be on Wall St.Also, you said that so much work that Obama does takes place behind close doors .So shouldn't you apply the same
> conclusion to GW.How do you know that he(GW)wasn't working on preventing an attack. It seems that you also have a one sighted political nature.


Try reading this. 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91651


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> President Obama and his family are doing nothing differently than other modern Presidents. Why do you criticize them? I believe you judge him differently based on the color of his skin, and that colors your opinions.....making them worthless.


Very well put damemary!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> Truth is EVERYONE in this world knows that America has a weak leader. Wait until Russia bombs our country and see how well you like Obama. He has used Executive power more than any other president - because he wants to be a dictator. Bad when even the Russian president is laughing at Obama!
> 
> Do you hear of any other countries inviting the Obama's to visit?
> Were they invited to William and Kate's wedding? Did they send a gift from
> America to the wedding or birth of Prince George? The answer is HELL NO!


Oh, you are too funny. You judge someone on if they were invited to William and Kate's wedding.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have question. This is about the China trip.
> Was it a vacation or was she a representative for her husband or the government? Or was she on a speaking tour in which she received pay?
> 
> There was a problem with the Media not being allowed to accompany her. If she was a representative of the Government, the press would be allowed? Remember "Freedom of the Press." If it was personal, why should they go along?
> ...


May I suggest that you read the news?


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

taborhills said:


> In a democracy, it is safe and proper and even advisable to question our elected
> leaders on their choices. If we had not objected to government voices in the
> 18th C, we might not be a country at all, and certainly not the country we are.
> Freedom of expression is basic. Questioning is not disrespect, in fact, the opposite.


You are absolutely right. Questioning is not disrespect but mudslinging & making unfounded assumptions is. When the Bush twin (I forget which one) got into legal trouble, I wondered who paid off whom to get her out of it & then make it disappear.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

ParkerEliz said:


> Wish I had a delete button for some of these threads....


You don't need a delete button, just pass them by & don't read them.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Why would you voice your opinion as you cannot vote in our country? I don't voice my opinions about your country so butt out it is "none" of your business!
> 
> Why would you "love" them they have not done anything good for our country!


Wait a minute. You mean to say that because someone is not an American they cannot have an opinion? I want to see you say HONESTLY that you have no opinion about Hitler, Castro, Khrushchev, Putin, Queen Elizabeth II etc.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

felix said:


> kathycam....what you said is true about inheriting staff, secret service, etc...the big complaint has nothing to do with color of skin....it is in the papers daily what he has spent on his own enjoyment....$102,000 for dog handler on trips....talk about outrageous !!


Felix--please check subsequent posts and links about that. That "dog handler" is a presidential aide, who makes that salary. He walked the dog off the plane, and several right wing mudslingers printed that headline. If you read the articles, you will find the vague disclaimers at the end, to protect themselves from lawsuits. The Obamas have never had a dog trainer or handler. Why do you think these people made up that headline, knowing that man, and others on that flight, were presidential aides? All previous presidents, that I can remember, also traveled with their families, dogs, and staffers and yet Obama is the only one receiving these deliberate, hateful, lying headlines. Why do you think that is?


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


You first... sources?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> Wait a minute. You mean to say that because someone is not an American they cannot have an opinion? I want to see you say HONESTLY that you have no opinion about Hitler, Castro, Khrushchev, Putin, Queen Elizabeth II etc.


That's what she means to say, a bit off kilter, I think.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

inishowen said:


> How dare you! You are a very rude women. Why don't you butt out of my life.


You should hear Janeway's opinion of me , and Canada. I won't let her drive me away. She will watch for your posts from now on. 
She doesn't admit we have a right to be on any thread we wish.

Sad, indeed.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

knitbreak said:


> Keonknitter , tell me where it is written that GW knew before hand that the Twin Towers were going to be a target. I do remember that an agent had informed the Clinton administration of a threat on the US. The media did report this after the fact, but there was no reporting of where it would take place. Some thought it would be on Wall St.Also, you said that so much work that Obama does takes place behind close doors .So shouldn't you apply the same
> conclusion to GW.How do you know that he(GW)wasn't working on preventing an attack. It seems that you also have a one sighted political nature.


First of all, I have no political nature. I think ALL politicians are liars, self serving & do more harm than good. I have no party affiliation because there is good & bad in everything & everybody. People do the best they know how to do. I do respect the political positions tho. I have had Republican politicians go to great lengths to help my now departed husband & I & democratic ones ignore us completely. In 1973, I was 8 months pregnant with my 1st child & we were facing being homeless. A democrat came to our aid. I never voted for a party, I voted for the person. I also don't care what color a person is, what color eyes or hair they have. I don't care what religion some one practices. When Ronald Regan voted into law, a bill that reduced my husband's SS disability by $500 a month, we stopped voting. BTW...I did vote for him. You can give me all the flak you want because I choose not to be a voter, but, I have my opinions just like everyone else & no body will tell me I can't voice them. If you don't agree with me, that's your perogative.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Inishowen --You should hear Janeway's opinion of me , and Canada. I won't let her drive me away. She will watch for your posts from now on. 
She doesn't admit we have a right to be on any thread we wish.

Sad, indeed. I guess she feels that only Republican Americans should be allowed on KP -- they post here , we can voice our opinion whereever we wish . I just get tired of it. Nice to see you here friend-- don't pay any attention. I think it should be something that Americans know , other people in the world are watching what is happening there. I know that Canada is interested in most things American as it affects us. So don't let her get under your skin -- that is what she wishes to do. She hates Canada as she has said (never been here though }- and actually I am quite happy about that.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

knitbreak said:


> Keonknitter , tell me where it is written that GW knew before hand that the Twin Towers were going to be a target. I do remember that an agent had informed the Clinton administration of a threat on the US. The media did report this after the fact, but there was no reporting of where it would take place. Some thought it would be on Wall St.Also, you said that so much work that Obama does takes place behind close doors .So shouldn't you apply the same
> conclusion to GW.How do you know that he(GW)wasn't working on preventing an attack. It seems that you also have a one sighted political nature.


OOPs forgot to answer your 1st question. I didn't say he knew the Twin Towers were going to be targeted. He knew the USA was being targeted, but, didn't know the exact particulars. He should have secured the whole country instead of a 'wait & see' attitude.


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## ka_avery (Jan 20, 2014)

I agree with the others about not giving my opinion on the subject. To quote Ron white you can't fix stupid". As for the comment about telling someone from another country to shut up and mind their own business you posed the question and asked for opinions and you did not set the parameters for just Americans. So to the people that have been offended by the bad manners of my countrymen please accept my sincere apologies as they evidently were not raised right.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> Truth is EVERYONE in this world knows that America has a weak leader. Wait until Russia bombs our country and see how well you like Obama. He has used Executive power more than any other president - because he wants to be a dictator. Bad when even the Russian president is laughing at Obama!
> 
> Do you hear of any other countries inviting the Obama's to visit?
> Were they invited to William and Kate's wedding? Did they send a gift from
> America to the wedding or birth of Prince George? The answer is HELL NO!


Isn't that the reason 9/11 happened? We had a weak leader.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ka_avery said:


> I agree with the others about not giving my opinion on the subject. To quote Ron white you can't fix stupid". As for the comment about telling someone from another country to shut up and mind their own business you posed the question and asked for opinions and you did not set the parameters for just Americans. So to the people that have been offended by the bad manners of my countrymen please accept my sincere apologies as they evidently were not raised right.


Too bad they were raised left. Isn't it?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does anyone even see the President of Israel?


Great question that only PP can answer. but I think she would agree that the President is more of a figure-head and the Prime Minister really has the power. Isn't that the British system? So the President is shoved behind a cloud with no great press coverage.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> Now, come on. You know Bush has last place all sewed up and will never loose it.


Ha. Ha. I believe he will go neck to neck with F. Pierce.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

He is not a Muslim!!! That said it shouldn't matter if he is we have freedom of religion for ALL Americans. Actually it shouldn't matter if he is an atheist


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder where you found your number of *American Casualties.* There were actually only 258 military deaths in the first Iraq War. How does that become one-half million American deaths in about 20 years? The war lasted from August 1990 until the cease fire was called in March 1991.
> 
> There were a large number of Iraqi deaths because of the toxic gas etc. But remember they did it to their own people.
> 
> http://www.statisticbrain.com/u-s-war-death-statistics/ is my source of information. The dates are from memory as Kuwait was invaded 2 days after my son enlisted and the day we got on the plane to go to his graduation from basic training, was the day of the cease fire. Where is yours?


Toxic gas but no WMD. That's works. NOT.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh - I am sure she was sitting there figuring out how to take advantage by taking her Mother to look after her girls while she was doing First lady duties. First first family that took a sitter with them. She has been called every filthy name imagineable.


I was so touched to learn that Mrs. Robinson was receiving the honor of living in the White House with her family. I do not believe she considers herself a hired hand. What a remarkable gesture for the Obamas to have made. My feeling is that both the President and his wife would have had all their parents living in the White House to experience the Unimaginable and the Remarkable!


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Geez. You guys just keep proving the point. Kitty Katzmans is saying she would never vote for Obama in the future. News flash! Two terms! That's all they get! It appears neither of you knew that. The intelligent response for not voting for Obama is that he is not allowed to run for a third term. Your intelligence is scaring me.



GranmaD said:


> No sense in commenting further here. When dealing with airheads it is best to move on and let them stew in their own ignorance and lack of judgment. I think Kitty Katzmom would be able to give intelligent responses as to why she would never vote for Obama. Anyone who makes a statement like that has her head on straight. Oh would we have more of the Kitty Katzmans! The only problem is that the airheads are bringing down this country so far that I fear we will never be able to recover.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

babsbarb said:


> WE need to get rid of them all (politicians) and start over. This is supposed to be governed by the people for the people. The representatives are supposed to do what WE the people want. Not line their pockets and take advantage of their position.


And THAT is the truth to the solution. Our founding fathers were not politicians. They were farmers, plantation owners, newspaper publishers. In other words, they were working people who cared enough about this country & it's citizens to put their own lives on the line to bring their dreams, hopes & aspirations to fruition. 'Regular' people who live 'regular' lives should be the ones running this country, not the elite rich.


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have question. This is about the China trip.
> Was it a vacation or was she a representative for her husband or the government? Or was she on a speaking tour in which she received pay?
> 
> There was a problem with the Media not being allowed to accompany her. If she was a representative of the Government, the press would be allowed? Remember "Freedom of the Press." If it was personal, why should they go along?
> ...


It is a good will tour. The wives of all the presidents always make good will 
tours to foreign countries. It's one of their responsibilities as First Lady.


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Forgive her ignorance, Inishowen. Why would you expect anything better from a country that interferes in the politics of almost every country in the world in general, and supplied arms to both sides in the Northern Irish Troubles in particular? We believe we can solve the problems of the rest of the world but we can't sit down and have an intelligent conversation face to face on how we can work together to solve our own problems. Instead, we clog up online forums with the kind of mud slinging you see here.

quote=inishowen]How dare you! You are a very rude women. Why don't you butt out of my life.[/quote]


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

kathycam said:


> I can remember back to the Johnson administration and how horrible the news media was about their daughters--disgusting comments about their looks, their clothes. It was then, that I realized, for the first time, that the media considers female appearance to be fair game for their comments, no matter how ugly. They went easier on Trisha Nixon. Before the Clintons moved into the White House, they consulted with their predecessors on how to protect their daughter from the media. They tried to make it clear to them that their daughter was NOT public property and it seems Chelsea got off a little easier than the Bush twins.


I really don't think Chelsea got off easy. I can recall hearing Rush Limbaugh, many times, criticize and make fun of Chelsea....the way she dressed and even went as far as to call her homely. That was the day that I turned off the radio.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


'Outlawed' Christianity????? That would be discriminatory & against the law. This country was built on religious freedom & freedom of speech. He would never get away with it. It would mean that every single person in the White House would have to give up their religion & practice only what he forces them to. I would love to see this in writing, by a reputable media source with my own eyes.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


And where did you get all this information - from Rush Limbaugh, or Glenn Beck???


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## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

I popped out to dinner and returned curious to see how the comments were going, wow! 39 pages of it.
While it is true we do not need to read this thread, I personally found it interesting as it informs me about members. Persons with whom we will otherwise exchange patterns and nice amenities.
Personally, I will find it difficult to erase these comments from my mind, while I seek assistance about knitting.
Many snarky commenters have little sayings under their names such as, FYI: Nobody is forcing you to be mean, you freely enter into it, Healer, I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it,
For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted, etc.
Each one of them has overlooked their own nice quotes.
So far, I picked up these gems from these nice people, that some of us are:
Far right crazies
Left wing Nuts
have rabidly sociopathic personality
Being told May I suggest that you read the news?
you must have your head in the sand
Been given: Two choices, I see...don't read a thread about American politics. Start a thread about Australian issues.
Been told: Sorry to say but you aren't required to read this or any other post if you don't like them.
A nice lady says: So to the people that have been offended by the bad manners of my countrymen please accept my sincere apologies as they evidently were not raised right.
Suddenly snarkiness and sarcasm shows up: Too bad they were raised left. Isn't it?
Another was told: Your intelligence is scaring me.
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!? STOP IT!

I cannot fathom having a friend or acquaintance in front of me treating me like this, to my face! 

And for you BRAMLEYGAL who started the thread with "DOES anyone agree with me?"
You must know by now, nobody agrees with anybody and that is the way the world is and forever shall be. Now I will UNWATCH, enough is enough, mean, mean people here - hope you can reflect on your behavior.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ka_avery said:


> I agree with the others about not giving my opinion on the subject. To quote Ron white you can't fix stupid". As for the comment about telling someone from another country to shut up and mind their own business you posed the question and asked for opinions and you did not set the parameters for just Americans. So to the people that have been offended by the bad manners of my countrymen please accept my sincere apologies as they evidently were not raised right.


Most Americans I have ever met - and I have met many, both on line and in person after spending many many winters in the States are wonderful, kind and generous people. I have made so many friends and rarely is there a difference-- It is great to know people from other places and learn about other lives, and ways of doing things.

It is just if someone asks Political questions it changes, -- however, people around the world are interested, especially your neighbors to the NOrth who are heavily affected by what goes on down here.

We have our Politicians who we are not very proud of either - and to me they have acted much worse than your President and his wife - and what is said about them is the Truth, not innuendos, lies and hate. We have been in the news quite a lot recently in that regard.

Also, this is a public forum and we are allowed to express our opinions. For those who say we can't, maybe it might be an idea for them to start a Managed section or go somewhere where 
they can keep us 'foreigners away. Until that happens they are going to have to accept that 'foreigners' are allowed to post wherever they wish on KP. Luckily , most don't feel that way and the ones who do are rude enough to turn 99% of the people who read their posts off, including their own country men and women from what I can see. Those who agree with them are entitled to but we are allowed to answer back.


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## eeaton (Apr 13, 2012)

How does a question about the appropriateness of the tax payers paying for a trip to china for Obama's mother-in-law end up with an attack on the prior administration ?


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> I was so touched to learn that Mrs. Robinson was receiving the honor of living in the White House with her family. I do not believe she considers herself a hired hand. What a remarkable gesture for the Obamas to have made. My feeling is that both the President and his wife would have had all their parents living in the White House to experience the Unimaginable and the Remarkable!


Actually, Michelle's mother didn't want to go to the White House. She had her own home and life in Chicago. The Obama's begged her to be a constant in their daughters lives, because they would be busy with their duties as President and First Lady. Mrs. Robinson, insists on doing her own laundry and housekeeping, and also cooks in the White House kitchen. It must be quite a sacrifice to give up your own life, to be there for your grandchildren, but many have done it. President Obama was raised by his grandparents in Hawaii. His parents were divorced and he only met his father a couple of times, growing up. His grandmother passed away in Hawaii at election time, and she never got to see him in the White House.


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## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Why should she?


She is the first Lady, so I guess she doesn't have to. Isn't she taking a public relations trip to cover the expenses of a vacation? Most of our first Ladies didn't shun the press on business trips. Just wondering.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Thank you for the link. I see it was from CNN, so it is no wonder I heard no complaints about extravagant baby gift spending on the part of the Obamas/us taxpayers. The haters generally avoid CNN for another news (?) network.


Janet Cooke said:


> Actually, it seems that a gift was sent. Big secret...
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/politics/obamas-royal-baby-gift/index.html


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Remember at that time different parts of the government were not talking to each other. They were not sharing intelligence information. Some said it was illegal to share the info. After 9/11 that changed. Not saying it would have been prevented if they were sharing information. But we will never know.


Have you read The Looming Tower. If you haven't you should. Very enlightening in many ways.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> She is the first Lady, so I guess she doesn't have to. Isn't she taking a public relations trip to cover the expenses of a vacation? Most of our first Ladies didn't shun the press on business trips. Just wondering.


Now if the press is "shunned", interesting term, how are all of those videos of her speaking getting to the american public?
Could you provide us with a list of the press corps that was included in all of the First Ladies' international trips since 1977?


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## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

mamasbird: i would also like to hear answers to the questions you brought up....enough of the musllm being pushed down our throats after all of the bad things they have already done to our country...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> And THAT is the truth to the solution. Our founding fathers were not politicians. They were farmers, plantation owners, newspaper publishers. In other words, they were working people who cared enough about this country & it's citizens to put their own lives on the line to bring their dreams, hopes & aspirations to fruition. 'Regular' people who live 'regular' lives should be the ones running this country, not the elite rich.


I think the Founding Fathers were considered the elite. They owned huge estates, were educated, wealthy and amassed great power. Re-read the constitution to see just who were excluded from voting and you can then figure out just who was meant to benefit by our newly-formed government.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> She is the first Lady, so I guess she doesn't have to. Isn't she taking a public relations trip to cover the expenses of a vacation? Most of our first Ladies didn't shun the press on business trips. Just wondering.


Is that what you suggest that Barbara and Laura Bush were doing on their international trips? Were they doing public relations in order to cover the expenses of a vacation?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> I think the Founding Fathers were considered the elite. They owned huge estates, were educated, wealthy and amassed great power. Re-read the constitution to see just who were excluded from voting and you can then figure out just who was meant to benefit by our newly-formed government.


Not to mention, slave holders. And they took the term Men literally as it applied to the white race.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> I think the Founding Fathers were considered the elite. They owned huge estates, were educated, wealthy and amassed great power. Re-read the constitution to see just who were excluded from voting and you can then figure out just who was meant to benefit by our newly-formed government.


You got it, SQM, there are no idealists signing the paperwork at the formation of our gov't.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

felix said:


> mamasbird: i would also like to hear answers to the questions you brought up....enough of the musllm being pushed down our throats after all of the bad things they have already done to our country...


Really? Can you identify the Muslim being pushed down your throat?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Really? Can you identify the Muslim being pushed down your throat?


BHO.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Are you sure about that? He picks and chooses which laws he will enforce and which ones he will not. Then if he doesn't like the regulations in the law, he will change them. He has already shown disdain for the Constitution, how will the 22nd Amendment stop him?


Which laws has he changed? Which laws has he not enforced? I was taught that we have 3 branches of government, that must concur, to change any law, or amend the Constitution. No president, or branch of government, can do it alone. Also, isn't it the Judicial system that enforces the law and Constitution? I haven't read about any laws being changed, or the Constitution being amended. I gave up on equal rights for women amendment a long time ago. Please let me know about these new laws.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kathycam said:


> Which laws has he changed? Which laws has he not enforced? I was taught that we have 3 branches of government, that must concur, to change any law, or amend the Constitution. No president, or branch of government, can do it alone. Also, isn't it the Judicial system that enforces the law and Constitution? I haven't read about any laws being changed, or the Constitution being amended. I gave up on equal rights for women amendment a long time ago. Please let me know about these new laws.


You forget executive orders?


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

sumnerusa said:


> I really don't think Chelsea got off easy. I can recall hearing Rush Limbaugh, many times, criticize and make fun of Chelsea....the way she dressed and even went as far as to call her homely. That was the day that I turned off the radio.


Oh, no. I didn't say Chelsea got off easy. I meant that she probably got off easier than most of the presidential daughters, (especially, the Johnsons), because her parents were cognizant of the problems of their predecessors and did their best to keep the press away from her. Rush Limbaugh, can hardly be regarded as press. I don't think even Fox news would hire him, much less any other news outlet.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> You sound unbalanced. I don't see 'flaunting' or disrespecting the flag or National Anthem. Please refrain from joining the discussion if you can't keep your temper in check.


I have shown no temper whatsoever. You don't see what is right in front of you. He consistantly disrespects all the things I listed. And instead of arguing on those facts you bash, bully, and belittle people who have differing opinions. 
As far as joining the discussion I will do as I please, since this is still a somewhat free country.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Not to mention, slave holders. And they took the term Men literally as it applied to the white race.


I am going to be gracious enough to agree with you both, but, look at it this way...the people of the world back in those times were not the 'freethinkers' that we, the people of the world now, have the open mindedness to be. I think the practices of those times is abhorrant, but, we of these times, know better now, don't we?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Hilda said:


> A family working 3 jobs to survive is because they do not know how to manage money. It is supriseing how much one can live without and live just fine. Cut of the cable, get rid on the cell phones and turn on the lights for a start. Check out the groceries they buy bet a big savings could be found there.


You are making a lot of assumptions about people that you know nothing about.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> I am going to be gracious enough to agree with you both, but, look at it this way...the people of the world back in those times were not the 'freethinkers' that we, the people of the world now, have the open mindedness to be. I think the practices of those times is abhorrant, but, we of these times, know better now, don't we?


They did too, they chose not to though. That's the difference.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

kathycam said:


> Which laws has he changed? Which laws has he not enforced? I was taught that we have 3 branches of government, that must concur, to change any law, or amend the Constitution. No president, or branch of government, can do it alone. Also, isn't it the Judicial system that enforces the law and Constitution? I haven't read about any laws being changed, or the Constitution being amended. I gave up on equal rights for women amendment a long time ago. Please let me know about these new laws.


He has put pen to paper to change the ACA, he has not enforced the laws to deport or even detain illegal aliens, or the selling of a controlled substance. You would think he would need to go through the proper channels but as long as the senate remains in the hands of the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil democrats he will not have the punishment he deserves for the unlawful acts he is responsible for.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

He has deported many more undocumented people than the last few Presidents!


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Ahirsch601 said:


> He has deported many more undocumented people than the last few Presidents!


Prove it.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

And they are called illegal aliens, not undocumented people.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> You forget executive orders?


Nope. I know what Executive orders are, and they do not change laws or amend the Constitution. They do, in fact, have to comply with the Constitution, and are subject to approval of the legislative branch. They are usually used in cases of emergency, such as disaster relief, but are also used to direct governmental agencies. For instance, a president could order that undocumented people cannot be hired by any government agency or contractor of that agency. The legislature could disagree with that order, or the Supreme Court could rule it unconstitutional. That is why we have the 3 branches of government, not a dictatorship.

You still haven't told me which laws President Obama changed and how he amended the Constitution. Where could I find this information?


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> I am going to be gracious enough to agree with you both, but, look at it this way...the people of the world back in those times were not the 'freethinkers' that we, the people of the world now, have the open mindedness to be. I think the practices of those times is abhorrant, but, we of these times, know better now, don't we?


This is going to be my last post on this thread & I appreciate the very stimulating conversation, but, I have come to realize that I have neglected something that, right now, is of more importance to me than anyone or anything else in this whole world. I hope this post will help put some perspective out to all of you. I hope that we can all put our differences aside, not hold our opinions & beliefs against each other & remain friends with nicer things in common such as our knitting & crocheting.

I have a 5 year old grand daughter who has end stage renal disease & is on dialysis. She needs a kidney donor as none of her family are a match. If she doesn't get one, she will die. I am in the process of knitting her a 'dialysis blankie' in her favorite colors to show her how much I love her. I have lost a number of hours knitting it because I was too involved in this topic. I cannot do anything to change the present administration & neither can any of you, but, I can try to change my little 5 year old from a very sad, angry & dying little girl into the happy 5 year old she was just a few months ago, before this happened to her. Instead of pursuing all the arguing, name calling & mudslinging & time wasting reading & writing of the posts, please take one minute, just one, to look at her FB page, like it & then share it on your page. The further we spread the word, the better chance she has at living. Please put your energy into helping her instead of being mean, nasty, rude, etc. to each other. I look forward to seeing all of you on other more pleasant threads.
Thanks & bye.

https://www.facebook.com/KidneyforKinsey


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Here's a fact...from your friend, Sometimesaknitter back on page 32 or so. I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


WindingRoad said:


> Let's get something straight here. None of us have said we hate the President. Get that fact straight. And you don't need a link for it.


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## missylam (Aug 27, 2011)

I certainly will look at her facebook page and share it. I hope a kidney will be available for Kinsey quickly, that is far more important than politics we can't change except for everyone exercising their right to vote. If you didn't vote then you can't gripe. My prayers will be with Kinsey and ask everyone to pray for a kidney for Kinsey. A BIG HUG for you, Kinsey and the rest of the family. Love to Kinsey from Patti


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And they are called illegal aliens, not undocumented people.


Really? I think President Obama changed that law.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> Here's a fact...from your friend, Sometimesaknitter back on page 32 or so. I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
> I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


Yep, I do hate him and all he stands for. Won't apologize for it either. Think of me what you will. Makes no matter to me at all.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Have you heard of Obama Care or the Affordable Care Act? You can find the information on any website or article on the ACA with every change he made to it.
> 
> _When The Man Who Occupies The Oval Office Says He Will Veto A Law That Would Require Him To Obey The Law, Is It Unreasonable To Ask If America Has Become A Dictatorship?_
> 
> "If A President Can Change Some Laws, Can He Change All Laws? ... What Is Our Recourse?" - Trey Gowdy


Stop with the wackybats, will you?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Bea 465 said:


> Didn't vote for him, have a very low opinion of him and his wife who abuses the taxpayers with her trips. Enough said.


How do Mrs. Obama's trips compare to the 5 trips taken by Laura Bush to Africa among other trips she took?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> That is very true but he didn't run the country Dick Cheney did! Let's not forget 2 important facts when Bush took office we had a surplus and President Obama inherited a huge deficit. 2) 911 happened on George Bushes watch. A bigger blunder than Benghazi I would say. GWB was a laughing stock throughout the world.


Oh give up the Bush hating! You are ridiculous.

9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?

Cheney didn't run the country. By the end of Bush's 1st term, Cheney's input was lessened by his illness and a George Bush who was secure in his own decision-making.

Obama took a war-deficit and turned it into a deficit so deep we will probably never recover.

The biggest difference is that neither Bushes not Clinton were Narcisstic or ideologues like Obama. They were patriots.

Obama hates America, hates Americans, and is doing everything he can to destroy the American way of life. He has ruined our healthcare system, removed all American's right to privacy, controlled the media, which usually places restraints on governmental excess, and he is on his way to destroying the American economy with debt so that No One could fix it.

Every foreign leader has learned Obama is untrustworthy. He has no moral or mental strength. While Putin is invading the Ukraine, Obama is playing golf in Florida with his lover. He is a habitual liar on every issue.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Really? I think President Obama changed that law.


What law?
PS. They are here illegally and are aliens. Thus illegal aliens.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> What law?


That one that you quoted.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That one that you quoted.


I never quoted a law.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Hilda said:


> I'm not hostile. I feel sorry for them not being taught by their parents the value of a dollar and how not to waste it. There are so many solutions for learning the solutions to their problems but they just keep on doin' what they always have. Even just watching t.v. you can learn what to do to improve one's life style and I don't mean the commercials.


So who is "them," and how would you know anything about their parents and what they were taught? 
I would say you are talking about a large group of people and you can't possibly know every ones story and how they got to where they are. I think you are assuming an awful lot and painting a large group of people, fellow Americans, with one brush, and it isn't fair, but I must say it is a common story I hear from many on the right.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> there was none. Obama declared that the term "illegal alien" was politically incorrect. So he told his administration they were to use "undocumented" instead. No matter the name, they are still illegal.
> 
> Remember "A rose by any other name..."


I will and do call them illegal aliens. They have broken the law and should be treated as such. Or the more correct term would be O's private voters.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> So who is "them," and how would you know anything about their parents and what they were taught?
> I would say you are talking about a large group of people and you can't possibly know every ones story and how they got to where they are. I think you are assuming an awful lot and painting a large group of people, fellow Americans, with one brush, and it isn't fair, but I must say it is a common story I hear from many on the right.


Didn't you just so the same as you are complaining about?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

GranmaD said:


> Open your ears and eyes Obama suporters. Just look at the all the scandals this administration has amassed. Your children and grandchildren will be paying for the debt for many many yeats. He has made the country weak Impeachment can't come soon enough.


There are no real scandals, only those that Darrell Issa is trying to create.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> there was none. Obama declared that the term "illegal alien" was politically incorrect. So he told his administration they were to use "undocumented" instead. No matter the name, they are still illegal.
> 
> Remember "A rose by any other name..."


That is the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time. 
The term undocumented has been used since the 1970s, at least. 
Once again, I have to ask the question that so many have asked, what is it about this president that makes so many lie about the things he has said and done? 
What is it, joey, that makes it so hard to accept that this man can use the same tools that every other president who has gone before him used? 
What is the difference, joey, that "conservatives" cannot stomach about this president? What is so much more frightening about this man so many call a socialist than the last Democratice president who was also called a socialist? What makes this man so much scarier than "the first black president"?


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## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Now if the press is "shunned", interesting term, how are all of those videos of her speaking getting to the american public?
> Could you provide us with a list of the press corps that was included in all of the First Ladies' international trips since 1977?


No, I can't. I just remember seeing and hearing the former first Ladies more than this one. Maybe it's because then I watched more TV, and now I'm more on the computer reading Knitting Paradise, which is more fun for me than politics. I guess I'm not educated enough on this subject. I just get curious sometimes.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> You make my reply sound racist so where did you get that idea? Every First Family has taken hits in the past for their spending habits. Has nothing to do with color as you suggest and no President has ever been a slave to his office, it is a paid job, chosen in their career and I would think most would take offense at your analogy. They work hard to become President and most maintain the office with dignity and patriotism. I merely suggested when it is paid for there will be a record, if not it is the tax payers $. Why does race always have to become the determining factor of a conversation just because the President is black? I believe OP was just asking who pays, I see no race, gender or age related in that comment.


Because this president has been disrespected more than any other president ever has. Any honest person would realize and acknowledge that. If you listen for the "dog whistles" and then when they are called on it, oh "I just wasn't as articulate as I should have been." A republican congressman called our President a "********." Was that racist? Do you need more examples as there are plenty.


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## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Is that what you suggest that Barbara and Laura Bush were doing on their international trips? Were they doing public relations in order to cover the expenses of a vacation?


I'm not suggesting anything and I also didn't mention any names. It was my opinion that the first Lady was on a business trip. Maybe I'm wrong, this isn't the first time I would be wrong and probably not the last time.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

onieh said:


> My coment is what have the past presidents relatives done.
> Like traverlng all over. If they would all work together
> instead of arguing or disagreeing on every thing. Any way I would of hated to taken over what he has. I'm from Wisconsin and I hope to God Walker doesn't run for president. If you think we have it bad now.
> Have a good day.


I am with you on that one. I have been watching Walker too. Looks like quite a few of the republican governors are in the midst of a few scandals.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> cialea
> never in the history of our country had a President to clean up nothing but messes and that without any help from the GOP. Let me rephrase that, without help from the Right Nuts.


You are so right. The republicans held their meeting on President Obama's inauguration day and vowed to block everything Obama tried to do, and that is exactly what they have done. Where have you ever heard of that being done before? Mitch McConnell said his job was to make President Obama a one term president, which he failed to do. Wasn't McConnell a bit confused about what his job was. I thought he represented the people of Kentucky. I would think he had a bigger job to do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> I'm not suggesting anything and I also didn't mention any names. It was my opinion that the first Lady was on a business trip. Maybe I'm wrong, this isn't the first time I would be wrong and probably not the last time.


peacegoddess wrote:
Why should she?

She is the first Lady, so I guess she doesn't have to. Isn't she taking a public relations trip to cover the expenses of a vacation? Most of our first Ladies didn't shun the press on business trips. Just wondering.
******************************************
I must have been mistaken, it certainly reads like you are suggesting that she is on a vacation that she is covering as a public relations trip. Please accept my profuse apologies that I misread your intent. 
I am pleased to hear that you would never suggest that this First Lady would such a devious thing.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

CorvallisKnitter said:


> Bloody Hell - I forgot to unwatch this sucker. . . Thanks for the reminder.
> 
> No dang it - it did not take me 18 darned pages to "realize this". I simply opened it up this morning on the first page and placed my request and reply to the original post. My request just happened to land on the 18th page due to the amount of rapid (strong possibility mostly negative and trollish) feedback this post had already received. Not my fault or intent - and no - I have not read all 18 pages of vitriol that this post probably engendered.
> 
> ...


All you have to do is read one persons comment and they back out. Very easy. 18 pages are now over 40, so guess others are interested.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> All you have to do is read one persons comment and they back out. Very easy. 18 pages are now over 40, so guess others are interested.


Absolutely, because if you don't make a comment you will never get another notice. 
And, if you do get a notice, you don't have to look. Geez, people...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Toby's Mom said:


> I popped out to dinner and returned curious to see how the comments were going, wow! 39 pages of it.
> While it is true we do not need to read this thread, I personally found it interesting as it informs me about members. Persons with whom we will otherwise exchange patterns and nice amenities.
> Personally, I will find it difficult to erase these comments from my mind, while I seek assistance about knitting.
> Many snarky commenters have little sayings under their names such as, FYI: Nobody is forcing you to be mean, you freely enter into it, Healer, I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it,
> ...


I have no other comment but to thank you for reporting what is going on here with but a few words that have given me a very good laugh. You have it down so right. :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Pope said:


> Four people were killed in Benghazi. MILLIONS were killed in Bush's war that he lied about to the American people.


Plus many were killed in 13 embassy attacks during the Bush administration. Did the democrats hold hearing after hearing after hearing trying to create a scandal? No they did not. 
Did the democrats try to repeal Part D Medicare by voting on it 51 [and counting] times? No they worked with the republicans to see that it worked, even though it was a disaster when it started. That gives you a good indication of the difference between republicans and democrats and tell you who cares about the American people.


----------



## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Oh give up the Bush hating! You are ridiculous.
> 
> 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?
> 
> ...


That's a new one on me. Who is his lover?


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

The Defense of Marriage Act was ruled Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Most of the Supreme Court was placed by Republicans, so don't blame Obama.

The Dream Act has never been voted on, by the legislature and there is no Executive order pertaining to the nonexistent Dream Act. Many states have their own versions of the Dream Act, including Texas. The Bushes, and their backers and constituents, have a vested interest in cheap, illegal alien labor. They don't want them going anywhere.

The President did not write any rules forcing anyone to pay for birth control or abortion, much less change the Constitution. (Couldn't, even if he wanted to.) These things have always been included in medical insurance policies. Not until Obamacare, did some employers object to those provisions being in the policies. If these certain, complaining, employers provided full health insurance to their employees before Obamacare, birth control and abortion were covered. Why is it now an issue and it wasn't in all the years previous. It is nothing, but another political ploy to bash Obamacare. 

As to religious freedom, really? Those employees whose religion forbids birth control or abortion do not have to avail themselves of those provisions. My home owner's insurance policy covers boats, RVs and lots of other things I do not have--it's a standard policy. Even though I will never be filing a claim for the loss of these things, I still have the coverage, because it's standard. The same goes for the health insurance. A standard policy, is one size fits all, use it or don't. It's your right and privilege. No one, least of Obama, wants to take it away from you.

The rest of your answers, which you did not document, are so ludicrous, I will not bother to refute. I'm tired and going to bed. If President Obama declares Martial Law and appoints himself permanent President, I'm sure it will be on the news and I'll read about it the paper. Meanwhile, I suggest, whenever you receive hate mongering e-mail, bashing Obama and/or Obamacare, you check it out. I know you have internet access, and there are lots of sources you can check, to get the facts.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Plus many were killed in 13 embassy attacks during the Bush administration. Did the democrats hold hearing after hearing after hearing trying to create a scandal? No they did not.
> Did the democrats try to repeal Part D Medicare by voting on it 51 [and counting] times? No they worked with the republicans to see that it worked, even though it was a disaster when it started. That gives you a good indication of the difference between republicans and democrats and tell you who cares about the American people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks kathycam for the overview of the articles. I think it is much more effective than a cut and paste.



kathycam said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > There are sources galore, SQM, you judge whether they are reputable or not. I think they are pretty funny.
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Oh give up the Bush hating! You are ridiculous.
> 
> 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?
> 
> ...


This seems to be the perfect preface for the following...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Irish knitter said:


> why do the girls have to go along? If it is a state trip?


And why not. Taking a trip like that is a opportunity any parent would be grateful to be able to offer to their children.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Toby's Mom said:


> Gullible and lazy....Why is it that whenever we start these "chit chat" inquiries and we start out by discussing our opinions, and suddenly it quickly descends into name calling.
> Please folks, let people opine and believe what they want. Express your opinion respectfully. We are not all the same.
> We have different belief systems, different upbringings, different views, etc. Perhaps if you think someone is gullible or lazy for accepting certain theories, you might let them think so, whilst you do not.
> Toby's Mom


Because people make statements, without facts to back them up and they make these statements as the truth. Then it is repeated and repeated with no regard as to if it is true or not. If you make a statement of fact, back it up or don't repeat it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm glad they will send something. It will be fun to hear what it is when the news gets out.



Janet Cooke said:


> Actually, it seems that a gift was sent. Big secret...
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/politics/obamas-royal-baby-gift/index.html


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's an obvious safety issue. It's not a 'perk' he's requested. It's part of the job.



kathycam said:


> The same source that paid for all the Bushes travel, and every other presidential family's travel. None of them can travel without Secret Service. Even when President Reagan was bedridden with Alzheimer's for years, (and traveling nowhere), the Secret Service was there. Why blame the Obamas for something that comes with the territory and always has?


----------



## sparrefankerl (Feb 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> peacegoddess wrote:
> Why should she?
> 
> She is the first Lady, so I guess she doesn't have to. Isn't she taking a public relations trip to cover the expenses of a vacation? Most of our first Ladies didn't shun the press on business trips. Just wondering.
> ...


No apologies needed. You weren't hateful towards me, you were just writing your thoughts. Maybe I was wrong in the way I expressed myself. Besides everyone is entitled to a vacation. I wouldn't fault her for that.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> And why not. Taking a trip like that is a opportunity any parent would be grateful to be able to offer to their children.


Not to mention that children, both Chinese and American, are our future. A large piece of the talk is about cross cultural education, what better way to connect with the kids of that nation than through the children of this country? 
This nit picking is just so much foolishness, I would love to see where the complaints were about the Bush daughters vacationing in Brazil and Argentina. Comments were made about their bad behavior, not the expense of protecting them. 
When I tried to look up Bush girls, vacations all that came up was porn sites... goodness, it wasn't even considered news.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with your conclusions.



NJG said:


> Plus many were killed in 13 embassy attacks during the Bush administration. Did the democrats hold hearing after hearing after hearing trying to create a scandal? No they did not.
> Did the democrats try to repeal Part D Medicare by voting on it 51 [and counting] times? No they worked with the republicans to see that it worked, even though it was a disaster when it started. That gives you a good indication of the difference between republicans and democrats and tell you who cares about the American people.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we have found the liar and it isn't someone in the White House whose pants are on fire. Get real.



sparrefankerl said:


> That's a new one on me. Who is his lover?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes rumors generated this way are pure gossip, not fact. Shame.



NJG said:


> Because people make statements, without facts to back them up and they make these statements as the truth. Then it is repeated and repeated with no regard as to if it is true or not. If you make a statement of fact, back it up or don't repeat it.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> there was none. Obama declared that the term "illegal alien" was politically incorrect. So he told his administration they were to use "undocumented" instead. No matter the name, they are still illegal.
> 
> Remember "A rose by any other name..."


Illegal, implies a law was broken. Many, many, undocumented workers were brought here as infants and children. They grew up as Americans, but have no documentation of citizenship. They committed no crime and do not deserve to be called illegal. Having been brought up in this country, I hardly think they deserve to be called aliens either. If you find out tomorrow, that your parents brought you here illegally, will you feel any less American?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some of these children have been born in the USA and have never lived in Mexico. They want to deport the parents. Does this make sense to anyone?



kathycam said:


> Illegal, implies a law was broken. Many, many, undocumented workers were brought here as infants and children. They grew up as Americans, but have no documentation of citizenship. They committed no crime and do not deserve to be called illegal. Having been brought up in this country, I hardly think they deserve to be called aliens either. If you find out tomorrow, that your parents brought you here illegally, will you feel any less American?


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And they are called illegal aliens, not undocumented people.


I feel it's unfair to call people brought here as infants and children or by human trafficking, illegal. What law did they break? What's more, how do you expect them to return to their country of origin without a passport, or any other documentation?


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> This is going to be my last post on this thread & I appreciate the very stimulating conversation, but, I have come to realize that I have neglected something that, right now, is of more importance to me than anyone or anything else in this whole world. I hope this post will help put some perspective out to all of you. I hope that we can all put our differences aside, not hold our opinions & beliefs against each other & remain friends with nicer things in common such as our knitting & crocheting.
> 
> I have a 5 year old grand daughter who has end stage renal disease & is on dialysis. She needs a kidney donor as none of her family are a match. If she doesn't get one, she will die. I am in the process of knitting her a 'dialysis blankie' in her favorite colors to show her how much I love her. I have lost a number of hours knitting it because I was too involved in this topic. I cannot do anything to change the present administration & neither can any of you, but, I can try to change my little 5 year old from a very sad, angry & dying little girl into the happy 5 year old she was just a few months ago, before this happened to her. Instead of pursuing all the arguing, name calling & mudslinging & time wasting reading & writing of the posts, please take one minute, just one, to look at her FB page, like it & then share it on your page. The further we spread the word, the better chance she has at living. Please put your energy into helping her instead of being mean, nasty, rude, etc. to each other. I look forward to seeing all of you on other more pleasant threads.
> Thanks & bye.
> ...


My heart is breaking and I am praying for your granddaughter and family. I have a 5 year old granddaughter too...I can't imagine your pain. Please know that there are millions of donors and people who care in this world. I will post on her facebook page and share on mine. My family members and I are all organ donors and my DIL's brother was a liver recipient, 5 years ago. There is always hope. Peace and love to all of you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Of course, if someone else was paying for it.


Hypocrite is the word that comes to mind. Criticize President Obama, but not President Bush when the same thing happened.

The secret service was required to protect the first daughter during a March 2012 spring break trip to Mexico. It was the same type of protection afforded to Jenna and Barbara Bush when they took a spring break trip to Argentina. Further, the Bush twins caused such a stir while visiting Argentina that the US Consulate offices asked them to cut their trip short for the sake of security concerns. They did not.

It is reminiscent of the same outcry over the First Ladys decision to travel to Africa. Several conservative sites made a big deal of it and pointed out the fact that Michelle and her daughters and a cousin went on safari during a diplomatic mission.

Those upset over the Obama safari trip didnt have the same opposition to Laura Bush who visited Africa 5 times during her husbands two terms in office. She too attended a safari. Laura and daughters Barbara and Jenna ended their diplomatic mission trip at the Madikwe Game Reserve on the South African-Botswana border.

By the end of George W. Bushs tenure, Laura had traveled to 10 different countries, the most visits than any other First Lady before her.

The children of the president are not elected officials. They shouldnt be made to go without the educational and enriching experience of overseas travel simply because some Americans despise their parents.

Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-raising-children/2012/sep/29/double-standard-obama-and-bush-kids-vacations/#ixzz2wr2Ikgyq
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And they are called illegal aliens, not undocumented people.


I thought illegal aliens are the ones who stole the plane. The undocumented people are those that cross our southern border to find work.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

loravaughn said:


> Thank you Toby's Mom for your statements. Our country has become the laughing stock of the world because of this president and his wife who make no bones about the fact they do not even like our great country. We need someone who will work to pull everyone back together. I personally did not like Bill Clinton, but the man could get both sides to come together to accomplish what needed to be done. How can I as a 70 year old woman who still has to work to make ends meet and to pay my own bills instead of depending on hand outs to do so, endorse someone who has increased the national debt by trillions (twice in four year what Bush did in eight) and can do nothing but talk about raising taxes and if you do not believe that the ACA is not a tax, wait until next year when you file your taxes. Just my opinion which I a entitled to as well as all you Obama supporters.


What is your opinion of the unfunded wars started by Bush and unfunded Medicare part D started by Bush?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kneonknitter - I did what you asked and was glad to do that little bit. We are the same blood type but I am elderly and she deserves a young kidney. Wish I could help. I will send your darling healing energy. I also live in NYC so if I can help, let me know. Thanks for separating the wheat from the chaff for me!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> Some of these children have been born in the USA and have never lived in Mexico. They want to deport the parents. Does this make sense to anyone?


What doesnt make sense to me is if their parents are not residents of this country then why are their children residents if they are born here? If your mother was in England and had you while she was there would you be a resident of England? Dual citizenship doesnt work. What if the country you were a dual citizen of went to war with the other country you are a citizen of. What now? My daughter in law was born in Korea and spent most of her childhood in one country or another . ( Her parents were missionaries) She was and always has been a citizen of the US even though she hadnt spent much time here. 
I dont care if you want to live here but emigrate legally and dont expect the taxpayer to support you when you get here.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

GranmaD said:


> damemary and janet Cooke Of course they have to drum up bogus reasons so Mrs. Obozo can take these expensive overseas excursions. To meet with diplomats etc etc. What a wonderful way to have the kids visit other countries and "learn". As long as it on the taxpayers dime. And the American people fall for these ruses. Gullible!


Read a little further and you can be reminded how many trips Laura Bush and her daughters took. I am sure you are real proud of yourself for calling Mrs Obama names. I'll bet you have children and grand children who would be really proud of you too. You are a hypocrite.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Those people out on the street were taken by surprise in an interview. It happens all the time.
> We all have our opinions about who "low information" voters are. Some of us would say it is people who make their judgments about the condition of the country by clips from the Jay Leno show that are an embarassment.
> Gullible, indeed.


And besides the Jay Leno show a lot of "low information" voters get their info from Fox News.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> This is going to be my last post on this thread & I appreciate the very stimulating conversation, but, I have come to realize that I have neglected something that, right now, is of more importance to me than anyone or anything else in this whole world. I hope this post will help put some perspective out to all of you. I hope that we can all put our differences aside, not hold our opinions & beliefs against each other & remain friends with nicer things in common such as our knitting & crocheting.
> 
> I have a 5 year old grand daughter who has end stage renal disease & is on dialysis. She needs a kidney donor as none of her family are a match. If she doesn't get one, she will die. I am in the process of knitting her a 'dialysis blankie' in her favorite colors to show her how much I love her. I have lost a number of hours knitting it because I was too involved in this topic. I cannot do anything to change the present administration & neither can any of you, but, I can try to change my little 5 year old from a very sad, angry & dying little girl into the happy 5 year old she was just a few months ago, before this happened to her. Instead of pursuing all the arguing, name calling & mudslinging & time wasting reading & writing of the posts, please take one minute, just one, to look at her FB page, like it & then share it on your page. The further we spread the word, the better chance she has at living. Please put your energy into helping her instead of being mean, nasty, rude, etc. to each other. I look forward to seeing all of you on other more pleasant threads.
> Thanks & bye.
> ...


I was not going to read this thread anymore but punched in a line and there you are, someone knew you needed more prayers!I wish you and your family a successful search for a kidney. My niece had a huge amount of transplants the week they said would be her last so do not give up hope. Get that blankie made and snuggle and rock that GC as much as you can. I am praying for you. Now I can again ignore this rhetoric, unless esp tells me different.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Toby's Mom said:


> I vote for Knitting Paradise doing away with the ChitChat page!! let's get back to KNITTING and CROCHETING and other crafty endeavors!!
> Toby's Mom


You are excused to go back to your KNITTING and CROCHETING.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Toby's Mom said:


> I repeat, I vote for Knitting Paradise doing away with the ChitChat page!! let's get back to KNITTING and CROCHETING and other crafty endeavors!!
> Toby's Mom


We heard you thee first time. Go ahead and go without us. We will catch up later.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kathycam said:


> The White House Staff was in place before the Obamas got there. It was in place before any of our presidents got there. It is the same as the Oval Office, Secret Service, Air Force 1, and all the rest. On Inauguration Day, the former president walks out, and the new president walks in, after he takes the oath. Most White House Staff members work there for decades, until they retire. What president can say that?
> 
> Michelle Obama had to beg her mother to move into the White House with them. She knew their duties would not allow them to always be present with their children and wasn't about to leave them with the staff. Her mother is not a paid employee--she's grandma. The Obama's pay her personal expenses, as she is part of their family and household. I read once, where her mother would not allow the staff to clean her room or do her laundry. She hand washes her own things and often does the cooking, much to the dismay of the kitchen staff.
> 
> ...


You have said it so well. Thank you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

felix said:


> NJG she married an conceited air head..


I know Laura married a conceited air head and besides that he was not the brightest bulb in the pack.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

kathycam said:


> My heart is breaking and I am praying for your granddaughter and family. I have a 5 year old granddaughter too...I can't imagine your pain. Please know that there are millions of donors and people who care in this world. I will post on her facebook page and share on mine. My family members and I are all organ donors and my DIL's brother was a liver recipient, 5 years ago. There is always hope. Peace and love to all of you.


Thanks so much kathycam! <3


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> I was not going to read this thread anymore but punched in a line and there you are, someone knew you needed more prayers!I wish you and your family a successful search for a kidney. My niece had a huge amount of transplants the week they said would be her last so do not give up hope. Get that blankie made and snuggle and rock that GC as much as you can. I am praying for you. Now I can again ignore this rhetoric, unless esp tells me different.


Thank you Montana Gramma! <3


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> kneonknitter - I did what you asked and was glad to do that little bit. We are the same blood type but I am elderly and she deserves a young kidney. Wish I could help. I will send your darling healing energy. I also live in NYC so if I can help, let me know. Thanks for separating the wheat from the chaff for me!


Thanks so much SQM. NY1 is actually filming a piece tomorrow on Nadine & Kinsey!! We are very excited about the exposure. I don't know when it is going to air, but, hopefully it will be this week. I assume they need to edit it before they air it. G-d bless you & good nite.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

felix said:


> njg look at date on that chart...are you nuts??


Ok, I am willing to work with you, cause no I am not nuts. Lets try this shall we.

President Barack Obama: Added $5.081 trillion, a 44% increase to the $11.657 trillion debt level attributable to Bush's at the end of his last budget, FY 2009.

FY 2013 - $672 billion.
FY 2012 - $1.276 trillion.
FY 2011 - $1.229 trillion.
FY 2010 - $1.652 trillion.
FY 2009 - $253 billion. (Congress passed the Economic Stimulus Act, which spent $253 billion in FY 2009. This rare occurrence should be added to President Obama's contribution to the debt.)

President George W. Bush: Added $5.849 trillion, a 101% increase to the $5.8 trillion debt level at the end of Clinton's last budget, FY 2001.

FY 2009 - $1.632 trillion. (Bush's deficit without the impact of the Economic Stimulus Act).
FY 2008 - $1.017 trillion.
FY 2007 - $501 billion.
FY 2006 - $574 billion.
FY 2005 - $554 billion.
FY 2004 - $596 billion.
FY 2003 - $555 billion.
FY 2002 - $421 billion.

President Bill Clinton: Added $1.396 trillion, a 32% increase to the $4.4 trillion debt level at the end of Bush's last budget, FY 1993.

FY 2001 - $133 billion.
FY 2000 - $18 billion.
FY 1999 - $130 billion.
FY 1998 - $113 billion.
FY 1997 - $188 billion.
FY 1996 - $251 billion.
FY 1995 - $281 billion.
FY 1994 - $281 billion.

President George H.W. Bush: Added $1.554 trillion, a 54% increase to the $2.8 trillion debt level at the end of Reagan's last budget, FY 1989.

FY 1993 - $347 billion.
FY 1992 - $399 billion.
FY 1991 - $432 billion.
FY 1990 - $376 billion.

President Ronald Reagan: Added $1.86 trillion, 186% increase to the $998 billion debt level at the end of Carter's last budget, FY 1981.

FY 1989 - $255 billion.
FY 1988 - $252 billion.
FY 1987 - $225 billion.
FY 1986 - $297 billion.
FY 1985 - $256 billion.
FY 1984 - $195 billion.
FY 1983 - $235 billion.
FY 1982 - $144 billion.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Good question -- I wonder why it is okay for one family, but not the other --


I think it the difference between being republican and being democrat. Republicans are hypocrites.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> What the GOP/Tea Party wants to do with Medicare is the same program for education and everything else. Privatization is their game knowing that it will make mega profits for the CEO's while impoverishing the public. That political tendency is from a rabidly sociopathic personality. But the bottom line is that Capitalism is inhumane at base. There is no room for emotions or humanistic values. Actually Capitalism is completely antagonistic to Democracy. But in this country with its 1984 Newspeak, people have been lulled into thinking Capitalism is Democracy and this is true for people on both sides of the political aisle. Talk about dumbing down the masses of people.


Well we know how big corporations keep all their money at the top with huge salaries, plus big bonuses. Imagine if education were privatized and the ceo's took their salaries and bonuses out first and then education could have what was left, which would probably be very little. Those that could afford it would attend private schools or charter schools and the poor would go to the crappy schools. The i% show the world every day what they think of the poor, so I don't think that would change when it comes to education.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

collectordolls said:


> Why does everyone forget he had a white mother. And race is not the issue here it is whether his mother-in-law should be included on his trip to China. Which I think she should be because she does take care of the children. The question is why were the children in China in the first place.


Why did the Bush twins take trips with their mother?


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Hypocrite is the word that comes to mind. Criticize President Obama, but not President Bush when the same thing happened.
> 
> The secret service was required to protect the first daughter during a March 2012 spring break trip to Mexico. It was the same type of protection afforded to Jenna and Barbara Bush when they took a spring break trip to Argentina. Further, the Bush twins caused such a stir while visiting Argentina that the US Consulate offices asked them to cut their trip short for the sake of security concerns. They did not.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you for setting the record straight. People don't seem to realize that the Obamas do nothing that previous lst families haven't done. Only the Obamas are criticized and I think we all know why. Racism is alive and thriving in the US.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you sure about that? He picks and chooses which laws he will enforce and which ones he will not. Then if he doesn't like the regulations in the law, he will change them. He has already shown disdain for the Constitution, how will the 22nd Amendment stop him?


If you really believe he can change an amendment to the constitution, I feel so sorry for you and your lack of knowledge. Besides that you want us to believe you are capable of doing other peoples taxes, but believe President Obama can run for a 3rd term. So sad. OMG, I am just sitting here shaking my head. I can't believe you actually said that.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

eeaton said:


> How does a question about the appropriateness of the tax payers paying for a trip to china for Obama's mother-in-law end up with an attack on the prior administration ?


Because they attack President Obama and Mrs Obama for taking vacations, but when Bush took vacations, no one seemed to be outraged. They are outraged that the Obama girls went to China, but had no problem with the Bush girls going to Africa. It is all very hypocritical.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And they are called illegal aliens, not undocumented people.


They are not from outer space. They are not aliens. They are illegal immigrants or undocumented workers.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

eeaton said:


> How does a question about the appropriateness of the tax payers paying for a trip to china for Obama's mother-in-law end up with an attack on the prior administration ?


To respond, with the fact, that all prior lst familes, also traveled to foreign countries, is not an attack on the prior administration. The only ones being attacked, are the Obamas. Do you remember any other presidents' families being criticized for their travels, no matter how many friends and family they took along? Since Obama's MIL is a member of their household, I don't understand why anyone would even question her being on the trip. Neither, can I understand how the taxpayers are paying the MIL's way. lst families pay their own personal expenses. The security they have to travel with is a government expense. How in the world does the MIL add to that expense?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> This is going to be my last post on this thread & I appreciate the very stimulating conversation, but, I have come to realize that I have neglected something that, right now, is of more importance to me than anyone or anything else in this whole world. I hope this post will help put some perspective out to all of you. I hope that we can all put our differences aside, not hold our opinions & beliefs against each other & remain friends with nicer things in common such as our knitting & crocheting.
> 
> I have a 5 year old grand daughter who has end stage renal disease & is on dialysis. She needs a kidney donor as none of her family are a match. If she doesn't get one, she will die. I am in the process of knitting her a 'dialysis blankie' in her favorite colors to show her how much I love her. I have lost a number of hours knitting it because I was too involved in this topic. I cannot do anything to change the present administration & neither can any of you, but, I can try to change my little 5 year old from a very sad, angry & dying little girl into the happy 5 year old she was just a few months ago, before this happened to her. Instead of pursuing all the arguing, name calling & mudslinging & time wasting reading & writing of the posts, please take one minute, just one, to look at her FB page, like it & then share it on your page. The further we spread the word, the better chance she has at living. Please put your energy into helping her instead of being mean, nasty, rude, etc. to each other. I look forward to seeing all of you on other more pleasant threads.
> Thanks & bye.
> ...


I am so very sorry about you grand daughter and pray things go well for her. I have a 6 year old grand daughter and can't even imagine what you are going through. I wish you all the best.


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## Valkyrie (Feb 26, 2011)

First of all do you really think she is on vacation? I would almost bet one of my needle sets that she is one of the hardest working people in the white house, next to her daughter and son-i-l.
Plus, this is really a political task and they have a busy schedule to complete, and I don't mean laying on the beach, fishing in the rivers, or just sleeping late.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Oh give up the Bush hating! You are ridiculous.
> 
> 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?
> 
> ...


Oh you are so funny. A "war deficit," is that what it was? Why didn't the republicans fund the war? They want everything funded now, why not then? What did Bush do with the surplus left by Clinton? 
If you thing Bush was a patriot, you are delusional. Bush was secure in his own decision making all right. So secure that he sent all those young men and women to die and get wounded, all based on a lie, a lie that he was aware was a lie. That is more like a war criminal than a patriot. 
What on earth do you mean "playing gold with his lover?" I think you are sick.
Give up the Obama hating. You are ridiculous.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> I thought illegal aliens are the ones who stole the plane. The undocumented people are those that cross our southern border to find work.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Tamarque, can you be avoiding answering my question? If global interests are dominating politics, isn't Obama part of the scene?
By the way, if you are an anti-Semite, you really shouldn't lecture others on tolerance.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well we know how big corporations keep all their money at the top with huge salaries, plus big bonuses. Imagine if education were privatized and the ceo's took their salaries and bonuses out first and then education could have what was left, which would probably be very little. Those that could afford it would attend private schools or charter schools and the poor would go to the crappy schools. The i% show the world every day what they think of the poor, so I don't think that would change when it comes to education.


You can get the idea if you look at Charter and for-profit schools. They exist already.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They couldn't be left home alone?



NJG said:


> Why did the Bush twins take trips with their mother?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And who profits most from these workers? My opinion is that the employers who benefit from low wages and low expectations are the ones who profit most.



NJG said:


> They are not from outer space. They are not aliens. They are illegal immigrants or undocumented workers.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

taborhills said:


> My opinion? Why should we be paying for any of them to travel yet again? Michelle Obama was not elected. Presidents' wives usually do not travel abroad except with their husbands. Children? Why? The Chinese invited Mrs. O, but why? To promote friendship? Ha. To promote US debt? It's all too bizarre.


Please check your facts. Laura Bush, with daughters, friends and family, traveled the world, more than any other lst lady, ever. Maybe, you didn't know this, because it wasn't an issue until the Obama bashing began.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Inappropriate comment without redeeming value. IMHO


None of Windy's comments are appropriate and certainly have no value. Windy is a troll and it would serve us all well to follow kneonknitters example and not take the bait.


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## elaineadams (Oct 17, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


I feel like this about our PM....the thing is we, the voters, don't always see this in our greed and need to have things handed to us on a plate....but regardless of country, IF the leaders are abusing their position and using taxpayers monies to pay for their families to "visit" other countries then it is wrong. Our leaders are paid extremely handsomely for the jobs they are doing, therefore should pay for their private visits (holidays/vacations) to other countries.


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## emmas mom (May 15, 2013)

I work in healthcare and needless to say, the Obama administration is on my black list. I work for a non profit hospital system. We provide millions of $ each year caring for patients with no insurance. I've watched as there have been major staff reductions starting with support people vs the hands on health care staff which is as it should be. Payients and family want and deserve caring staff who can spend time with them, calming fears and making all the most comfortable one can be in a scary environment. They also want the most recent diagnostic and surgical equipment. Obama's new health plan is a definte detriment to quality care.

Sorry! Just had to get that off my chest! I, however, admire the family dynamic they project.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> What doesnt make sense to me is if their parents are not residents of this country then why are their children residents if they are born here? If your mother was in England and had you while she was there would you be a resident of England? Dual citizenship doesnt work. What if the country you were a dual citizen of went to war with the other country you are a citizen of. What now? My daughter in law was born in Korea and spent most of her childhood in one country or another . ( Her parents were missionaries) She was and always has been a citizen of the US even though she hadnt spent much time here.
> I dont care if you want to live here but emigrate legally and dont expect the taxpayer to support you when you get here.


Not residents... citizens... because that is what our US Constituton calls for. Who do you know other than the rare refugee from dangerous situations and lottery students who are helped by the US gov't when they get here?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

emmas mom said:


> I work in healthcare and needless to say, the Obama administration is on my black list. I work for a non profit hospital system. We provide millions of $ each year caring for patients with no insurance. I've watched as there have been major staff reductions starting with support people vs the hands on health care staff which is as it should be. Payients and family want and deserve caring staff who can spend time with them, calming fears and making all the most comfortable one can be in a scary environment. They also want the most recent diagnostic and surgical equipment. Obama's new health plan is a definte detriment to quality care.
> 
> Sorry! Just had to get that off my chest! I, however, admire the family dynamic they project.


I am glad that it is off your chest, now can you try to tell us how a hospital that cannot provide up to date health care can call itself a hospital? 
Trauma center status would be my call, maybe.


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## catrocky (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree totally. Where would we be today if it was McCain or Romney? Think about it.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

I work in OB/GYN and my boss has a sign up in our waiting room applauding Obamacare


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time.
> The term undocumented has been used since the 1970s, at least.
> Once again, I have to ask the question that so many have asked, what is it about this president that makes so many lie about the things he has said and done?
> What is it, joey, that makes it so hard to accept that this man can use the same tools that every other president who has gone before him used?
> What is the difference, joey, that "conservatives" cannot stomach about this president? What is so much more frightening about this man so many call a socialist than the last Democratice president who was also called a socialist? What makes this man so much scarier than "the first black president"?


He is a habitual liar. Nothing about him adds up to a good person and foolish Americans like you keep ignoring the truth of who he is and what is lacking in him as a man, much less a President.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

NJG said:


> They are not from outer space. They are not aliens. They are illegal immigrants or undocumented workers.


You are playing with semantics. They don't have legal status in this country. The word alien means foreign, which would cover those who illegally crossed America's borders.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> He is a habitual liar. Nothing about him adds up to a good person and foolish Americans like you keep ignoring the truth of who he is and what is lacking in him as a man, much less a President.


I know that I am not going to change your mind. I do hope that rational people on this site will go and take a peek at your favorite resting place and see what the "ladies" in F&F Denim and Pearls think is good Christian description of President Obama's life and history. 
You are an educated person, you have to know that the drivel you spout is disgusting and awful or offal. To try to spread the nastiness from those right wing sites claiming that President Obama was supporting his habits by prostituting himself while he was in college is just nasty; not only is it nasty, it is crazy. 
It reads like the conspiracy theorists want it to read, unbelievable. It is truly sad that anyone who claims to be as experienced and well traveled as you say you are would consider for a minute that the stories you spread are true. 
You should feel ashamed to have those letters trip off your fingers.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

catrocky said:


> I agree totally. Where would we be today if it was McCain or Romney? Think about it.


I have thought about it. If McCain were president, friendly governments would feel more secure knowing a hero was in charge of our national security, and Putin would never have retaken the Ukraine. If Romney were in charge, he would have begun cutting governmental excesses immediately, and we would have begun digging out of the huge economic hole that Obama has created.

You do realize that by the end of this year Obama will have doubled the national deficit he inherited 5 years ago? Obama's lack of knowledge of economics and illogical strategies for economic success would be going down with Romney or McCain, and American jobs would be rebounding rather than stagnant.

You don't understand how many Americans fervently wish either man was our President so we could be proud of America again. As it is we will work to prevent Obama from making more mistakes and wait for time to pass until he is GONE!


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## emmas mom (May 15, 2013)

That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, rural hospitals who in the past were able to provide quality care and keep up with at least the diagnostic technology no longer have the resources, especially independent or county hospitals which is why so many are closing which is a burden to the people in that rural area. We have a hospital that is about 60 miles from our main campus with an excellent ED that stablizes patients who are critical and then they are tranported by air to our main hospital. We don't have a trauma center however,


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## emmas mom (May 15, 2013)

That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, rural hospitals who in the past were able to provide quality care and keep up with at least the diagnostic technology no longer have the resources, especially independent or county hospitals which is why so many are closing which is a burden to the people in that rural area. We have a hospital that is about 60 miles from our main campus with an excellent ED that stablizes patients who are critical and then they are tranported by air to our main hospital. We don't have a trauma center however,


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## brucew (May 7, 2012)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## emmas mom (May 15, 2013)

That's an excellent point. Unfortunately, rural hospitals who in the past were able to provide quality care and keep up with at least the diagnostic technology no longer have the resources, especially independent or county hospitals which is why so many are closing which is a burden to the people in that rural area. We have a hospital that is about 60 miles from our main campus with an excellent ED that stablizes patients who are critical and then they are tranported by air to our main hospital. We don't have a trauma center however, four of our five hospitals have many of the same services 24/7. We also have kidney, liver, pancreas, heart transplant and a major cardiac program, another absolutely invaluable service for our community. There are certainly differing opinions and I'll admit I don't know the physician office side however it's difficult to watch clinical staff try to be all things to all people and not feel like they are providing the care they trained for and felt a calling to.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not residents... citizens... because that is what our US Constituton calls for. Who do you know other than the rare refugee from dangerous situations and lottery students who are helped by the US gov't when they get here?


How about the brothers who bombed the Boston Marathon. Their family was supported by us MA taxpayers for many years.


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> What doesnt make sense to me is if their parents are not residents of this country then why are their children residents if they are born here? If your mother was in England and had you while she was there would you be a resident of England? Dual citizenship doesnt work. What if the country you were a dual citizen of went to war with the other country you are a citizen of. What now? My daughter in law was born in Korea and spent most of her childhood in one country or another . ( Her parents were missionaries) She was and always has been a citizen of the US even though she hadnt spent much time here.
> I dont care if you want to live here but emigrate legally and dont expect the taxpayer to support you when you get here.


There children are residents of the United States because they were born on American soil. American soil can also be an overseas military installation or it can be an American ship or an American airline.


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## brucew (May 7, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> The whole world thinks that because a man is president, it means he can do 'whatever he wants to do.' This is so not true. If it were true, we would be living under a dictatorship not a democracy. Communist countries are a prime example of this. Look at the Korean leader who had his uncle murdered because he didn't like what his uncle said. Is this what you would rather have? Every president from Washington to Obama & future ones, has to do what he thinks is right & just. That's why they have 'advisors'. Each of them has also inherited the problems of the president before them that they need to try to fix in addition to the new ones that come his way. So tell me, was Tricky Dick right in the Watergate scandal? Is it fair that Congress can all vote themselves raises & then veto cost of living adjustments for John Q. Public?? George W was well aware of the threat to our great nation when the Twin Towers fell, yet he did NOTHING ahead of time to reinforce our security or safety. These men are human beings. You may not agree with them, but, at least respect the position of his office. When you walk in his shoes, deal with the things that go on behind closed doors that we don't know about, then it's ok to squawk about what he should or shouldn't do. Instead of holding a grudge for 8 years, why not do some community service & try to change your little corner of this great & wonderful country to what you would like it to be?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not residents... citizens... because that is what our US Constituton calls for. Who do you know other than the rare refugee from dangerous situations and lottery students who are helped by the US gov't when they get here?


I am well aware of what the constitution says, What I said was I dont think it makes sense for dual citizenship and Thomas Jefferson himself hinted as much when he said you cant be a hyphenated American. Something that I dislike. You are American or not.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I know that I am not going to change your mind. I do hope that rational people on this site will go and take a peek at your favorite resting place and see what the "ladies" in F&F Denim and Pearls think is good Christian description of President Obama's life and history.
> You are an educated person, you have to know that the drivel you spout is disgusting and awful or offal. To try to spread the nastiness from those right wing sites claiming that President Obama was supporting his habits by prostituting himself while he was in college is just nasty; not only is it nasty, it is crazy.
> It reads like the conspiracy theorists want it to read, unbelievable. It is truly sad that anyone who claims to be as experienced and well traveled as you say you are would consider for a minute that the stories you spread are true.
> You should feel ashamed to have those letters trip off your fingers.


You are one of the Left Wing Nuts (LWNs) that no one can stand on KP. Anyone who has not read the latest Obamacare thread (or any of them) or the War on Women thread that are both full of hatred, foul language, back hitting among yourselves, and just a need to vent evil garbage, should definitely check out how the LWNs handle themselves on the threads they rant on.

I prefer civilized discussion, and I find women interested in God, recipes, children and grandchildren, emotional support for others who are ill, and civil discussion of current events there.

What and how the LWNs discuss topics on General Chit Chat is much different than what you read on their threads. Maybe the LWNs are schizophrenic, but their behavior is like day and night because they feel free to be as mean and spiteful as they want on their threads. They like to discuss sexual matters, gay rights, abortion rights, and women's rights, all with no allowance for views other than their own. They promote getting what you can from Uncle Sam, lechery, anarchy, and they openly admit they hate God or don't believe there is a God.

Just knowing that people like them promote Obama would make me dislike him even if I knew nothing about his history and poor judgment. People will judge Obama our worst President in history for his actions. I judge him so now, but his supporters are only a small element of that. Once you see the filth they write, you'll understand the enormous disdain I have for them and him.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> He is a habitual liar. Nothing about him adds up to a good person and foolish Americans like you keep ignoring the truth of who he is and what is lacking in him as a man, much less a President.


You know, I dont think he is a liar. But he opens his mouth without thinking first with off the cuff comments . Back in the first term when a professor became irate with Cambridge, MA cops who were responding to a reported break in, the President when asked to comment said the cops acted stupidly before he had any facts in the case. The truth was the police asked for some ID as they were responding to a call and had no idea who he was and the professor mouthed off and was claiming racism.He kept blaming the previous administration for all his woes. Reagan inherited a huge deficit from Carter but didnt whine about it. He rolled up his sleeves and went to work. The bigger problem we have now is for the past 12-16 years we have elected to congress people who wont work together or compromise. All of a sudden, moderate candidates are bad in both parties. John McCain had a reputation of going against his own party if he thought their stance was not right. I do think he would have been a much better president than what we have had . ( Bush included).


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knit Crazy - 

Directions: Pretend you are an editor and go over each sentence of your most recent post. Then underline all the facts in blue and all your opinions in red. Then circle any statements that are accusative without justification in yellow. If you can find any "civilized discussion" underline those in puce. Thanks.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

kathycam said:


> Illegal, implies a law was broken. Many, many, undocumented workers were brought here as infants and children. They grew up as Americans, but have no documentation of citizenship. They committed no crime and do not deserve to be called illegal. Having been brought up in this country, I hardly think they deserve to be called aliens either. If you find out tomorrow, that your parents brought you here illegally, will you feel any less American?


Those brought to this country as children and whose parents are here illegally, are also here illegally. Those whose parents came here illegally and were born here are citizens if they choose to be. This is derived from our Constitution, and the amendment was put in place to allow Americans who were born of parents arriving here before there were immigration laws (late 1700s) to have legal status to run for office in our new nation. If this amendment had never been put in place, the new country, America, would have found few to run the country. After all, prior to the Revolutionary War, all residents were considered citizens of foreign countries, primarily British, French, or Spanish.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Gee, I remember Ronald Reagan running on a promise to balance the budget. He lied and left us with a huge deficit. Also, he was the father of greed! I can't wait for Hilary, personally.



nuclearfinz said:


> You know, I dont think he is a liar. But he opens his mouth without thinking first with off the cuff comments . Back in the first term when a professor became irate with Cambridge, MA cops who were responding to a reported break in, the President when asked to comment said the cops acted stupidly before he had any facts in the case. The truth was the police asked for some ID as they were responding to a call and had no idea who he was and the professor mouthed off and was claiming racism.He kept blaming the previous administration for all his woes. Reagan inherited a huge deficit from Carter but didnt whine about it. He rolled up his sleeves and went to work. The bigger problem we have now is for the past 12-16 years we have elected to congress people who wont work together or compromise. All of a sudden, moderate candidates are bad in both parties. John McCain had a reputation of going against his own party if he thought their stance was not right. I do think he would have been a much better president than what we have had . ( Bush included).


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SQM said:


> Knit Crazy -
> 
> Directions: Pretend you are an editor and go over each sentence of your most recent post. Then underline all the facts in blue and all your opinions in red. Then circle any statements that are accusative without justification in yellow. If you can find any "civilized discussion" underline those in puce. Thanks.


I was an editor at one time, and have no time for your demands or games. You are a LWN. I don't work for you or respect your opinions and biases.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I was an editor at one time, and have no time for your demands or games. You are a LWN. I don't work for you or respect your opinions and biases.


And you are a very angry woman.

Corrections:

Not a left winger - had to leave that rank when I learned they were anti- Israel so now I am an Independent.

But I do enjoy reading your posts and find them informative at times.

Stop the music!!!!! Crazy doesn't respect my opinions or biases. So Dear Readers, ignore the sentence 'But I do enjoy..."


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## Maggie2012 (May 14, 2012)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


nor mine!!!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are one of the Left Wing Nuts (LWNs) that no one can stand on KP. Anyone who has not read the latest Obamacare thread (or any of them) or the War on Women thread that are both full of hatred, foul language, back hitting among yourselves, and just a need to vent evil garbage, should definitely check out how the LWNs handle themselves on the threads they rant on.
> 
> *I prefer civilized discussion*, and I find women interested in God, recipes, children and grandchildren, emotional support for others who are ill, and civil discussion of current events there.
> 
> ...


WOW! A civil discussion!! -- your post sure does show that. And people who are on the left don't read recipes!! shame on them!

Your posts sicken me - and many others people, but it is one of many of the same type.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> Gee, I remember Ronald Reagan running on a promise to balance the budget. He lied and left us with a huge deficit. Also, he was the father of greed! I can't wait for Hilary, personally.


Much of what you say is true, but Obama has lied many times. Remember, "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it," which is probably the one that hurts the most Americans. But, the lie that Benghazi happened because someone made a video disrespectful of Mohammed, was hurtful too.

The reason the video lie was told was the fact that Obama claimed directly before the event that Al Qaeda was on the run and that he'd reduced terrorism. That was a lie during a re-election run. So, Obama did what comes easily to a habitual liar, he told the video lie. So did Hillary and Susan Rice. They all knew it was a lie, and each had their reasons for telling it (Obama - re-election; Hillary - covering failure to protect an outpost, i.e., Benghazi, but ordering Stephens to go there to his death; and, Rice- political ambition).


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

And Bush did not lie about the causes for the war in Iraq? Let us weigh and measure the greatest lie that caused the most damage.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

SQM said:


> And Bush did not lie about the causes for the war in Iraq? Let us weigh and measure the greatest lie that caused the most damage.


A lie is when you say something you know is incorrect. Everyone, including Britain, France, Germany, and Saudi Arabia had intelligence indicating WMDs existed, and Saddam Hussein said he had them. Saying they exist, when you have intelligence that tells you they exist is not a lie. If, however, Bush knew they didn't exist, said they did, and acted on it, that would be a lie and unconscionable. What proof do you have that he knew WMDs were not there?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> And Bush did not lie about the causes for the war in Iraq? Let us weigh and measure the greatest lie that caused the most damage.


Bush went to War in Iraq over claims of weapons of mass destruction. Hussein had them, he used them on the Kurds. Bush and Cheney are the reasons I am an Independent today instead of a republican. Those weapons couldnt be found because they were mobile, they existed and still do to this day . Where do you think Syria got the ones that their president used. I will say this about Bush, I think he has more respect for people, I think he had bad advisors. For those of you who claim Reagan left us with huge deficit, well, so its not ok for a republican to have a deficit but it is OK for a democrat to triple the deficit in 5 years.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

How many are still dying for these senseless wars? Bring them home. 
I resent so much of what the RWN say abouts Democrats. I work every day and have for my entire life. I am educated, have a Masters degree from Johns Hopkins. I vote in every election. I care for our people and worry what will become of us. I do not want something for nothing, never have. But, I do want what is rightfully mine and resent anyone trying to take it away. Paul Ryan's budget is an example of that. I am getting ready to retire.
Business has gotten such a hold on our society and is now writing our laws. Check out the Duke Energy debacle in NC. Duke bought the Republican legislators of that state to water down the water rights and now they have a huge coal ash spill. But, that is okay according to the Repubs.
We have the same thing in VA. Morgan Griffith, our Rep., is so pro business. He is personally so involved in watering down the EPA it isn't funny. I wrote and told him there are many other concerns in this state to be addressed, especially in our poor region. We just continue to disagree. It is really sad!!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> And you are a very angry woman.
> 
> Corrections:
> 
> ...


Not only does she not respect your opinions she is just plain nasty about anyone who disagrees with her despite the facts to back up assertions. 
I do have to disagree with you, SQM, on one assertion of yours. You know this to be true, those of us on the left do not rally to the same cry and to suggest that none of support Israel is just not fair.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Very well said Kneonknitter!


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## Violowl (Mar 4, 2012)

The administrator should not allow political discussions. This is a KNITTING discussion board. Not the place for this.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> I do not want something for nothing, never have. But, I do want what is rightfully mine and resent anyone trying to take it away.


What do you think the current administration is doing . Here in MA the governor keeps pushing for more and more taxes. The problem with Democrats is they want to keep spending more and more money and expect all Americans to just go along with it. The thing with Obamacare is it was designed to give Americans who didnt have health insurance to get it. That amounted to about 10-15% of the population at the time. Yet it affected all of us. It will continue to make all of us pay and not everyone will get insurance. Those who are caught in a loop hole and cant get it because of where they work will be paying for others. I resent the fact that I have to pay for people here in MA to get a better plan than I have. MASS Health has provisions for free that I cant get and must pay for out of pocket. Level the playing field and make it fair for all. the sad thing, much of the things that make insurance expensive are the costs from uninsured individuals that hospitals pass on to the rest of us, ( you know the $5.00 aspirin). They havent gone away. Now people have health insurance those costs should go down. Not!


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## Maggie2012 (May 14, 2012)

Violowl said:


> The administrator should not allow political discussions. This is a KNITTING discussion board. Not the place for this.


I agree with the "no politics" BUT this is a "chit-chat" section and I do not see any restrictions on a subject unless it is porn or such....

I just do not indulge in PAST actions of any pres...cannot change them...so why get involved? relax and try to do the right thing in today's world.....


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

I keep trying to unwatch this by unticking the box below Quick Reply. Am I doing something wrong? It won't go away.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Violowl said:


> The administrator should not allow political discussions. This is a KNITTING discussion board. Not the place for this.


Then dont post or read the thread. once you realize that it is political. It is General chit chat. Non Knitting topics may be discussed here. Just because we have a common interest in knitting doesnt mean we dont have opinions on other things. Im not trying to be mean or snarky ( I dislike intensesly) people who are, but I thank God I live in a country where we can freely discuss our opinions. There are many on this thread who I disagree with a great deal. As long as they are civil, I listen. I , do disagree with name calling and you are correct in that has no place here.


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## Maggie2012 (May 14, 2012)

inishowen said:


> I keep trying to unwatch this by unticking the box below Quick Reply. Am I doing something wrong? It won't go away.


Go to the VERY TOP and click on UNWATCH...it works every time


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> A lie is when you say something you know is incorrect. Everyone, including Britain, France, and Germany had intelligence indicating WMDs existed, and Saddam Hussein said he had them. Saying they exist, when you have intelligence that tells you they exist is not a lie. If, however, Bush knew they didn't exist, said they did, and acted on it, that would be a lie and unconscionable. What proof do you have that he knew WMDs were not there?


As I recall, Bush asked Hussein to turn over all his docs re: WMDs. Hussein refused right until the last moment, literally, when he handed over everything that correctly claimed he did not possess any lethal weapons. Bush ignored that and he went to war. My guess is that he was finishing up the war his dad fumbled all for the sake of their oil interests.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not only does she not respect your opinions she is just plain nasty about anyone who disagrees with her despite the facts to back up assertions.
> I do have to disagree with you, SQM, on one assertion of yours. You know this to be true, those of us on the left do not rally to the same cry and to suggest that none of support Israel is just not fair.


I hate to argue with my favorite cook but all the anti-Israel rhetoric I hear is spewed from the left. The right loves Israel because they are awaiting the second coming there. ( If only Ex-man had a second coming . )


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Violowl said:


> The administrator should not allow political discussions. This is a KNITTING discussion board. Not the place for this.


Shoo fly Shoo. This is a general chat space and if it is not to your liking choose other topics. Don't legislate for the rest of us.


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

Maggie2012 said:


> Go to the VERY TOP and click on UNWATCH...it works every time


Thanks I will try that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

inishowen said:


> I keep trying to unwatch this by unticking the box below Quick Reply. Am I doing something wrong? It won't go away.


I would go to "watched topics" and click unwatch there. That always works for me. Good luck.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> I hate to argue with my favorite cook but all the anti-Israel rhetoric I hear is spewed from the left. The right loves Israel because they are awaiting the second coming there. ( If only Ex-man had a second coming . )


Yes, but, Israel is NOT Judaism and the way that the Israeli gov't treats the Palestinians is no better than the the manner of treatment that the rest of mankind has handed out to Jews throughout history. 
One is separate from the other. Surely you can see that while responding to attacks on civilians may be appropriate keeping small children from eating and attending to education and not allowing adults to support their families is inhumane. 
How are those ghettoes any different than those in Poland during WWII?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> How many are still dying for these senseless wars? Bring them home.
> I resent so much of what the RWN say abouts Democrats. I work every day and have for my entire life. I am educated, have a Masters degree from Johns Hopkins. I vote in every election. I care for our people and worry what will become of us. I do not want something for nothing, never have. But, I do want what is rightfully mine and resent anyone trying to take it away. Paul Ryan's budget is an example of that. I am getting ready to retire.
> Business has gotten such a hold on our society and is now writing our laws. Check out the Duke Energy debacle in NC. Duke bought the Republican legislators of that state to water down the water rights and now they have a huge coal ash spill. But, that is okay according to the Repubs.
> We have the same thing in VA. Morgan Griffith, our Rep., is so pro business. He is personally so involved in watering down the EPA it isn't funny. I wrote and told him there are many other concerns in this state to be addressed, especially in our poor region. We just continue to disagree. It is really sad!!!


If you don't like wars, don't vote Democrat. FDR entered us in WWII, which personally I think was a "good war" that had to be fought and won overwhelming. Truman got us into the Korean War, which was a conflict rather than a war, and we didn't win it. Kennedy (and later Johnson expanded our effort) got us into Vietnam, which was not a "good war." It was a mistake that ended badly. Bush senior got us into the first Gulf War. It was a coalition effort that ended well, but not with an overwhelming victory because he quit too soon. Bush, the younger, got us into the second Gulf War in Iraq and Obama ended it badly. Then, Obama expanded the war into Afghanistan, which was not winnable. Now he is withdrawing in defeat.

No war is anything but hell. But, if you get into one, don't start it; finish it. Pick one that has a benefit to society, is winnable, and bludgeon the aggressor into total submission or stay home.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Let me refresh you memory SQM. A lot of people said that Bush II wanted to finish up his father's failed war. However, it was not really about soggy egos. Hussein was threatening to resist the US boycotts and sanctions which were killing his country. He began to talk of changing his monetary base. This would have removed him from control of the US. Sounds familiar today with Russia and US sanctions. And if Hussein did this, he would have retained his influence over OPEC and the other Mid-East countries.
He had been cooperating with the UN inspection team for years.

As I recall the UN inspection team had been declaring no WMD. You may remember Scott Ritter, a military lifer who was a top inspector on that team was speaking out all over this country against the war and the absence of WMD. Scott lives in upstate NY and did a lot of speaking in this region and on NPR, etc.

The reality is that a major Bush/Cheney agenda item when they were installed into office was to find an excuse to attack Iraq. 10 yrs of crippling sanctions that caused about 1/2 million deaths of children was not enough for these goons. Then you need to remember the Project for a New American Century, the pivotal document of which Cheney was a signer. This document clearly outlined the neo-con agenda to have a successful coup in this country. The document laid it all out and said all that was needed was an event of the magnitude of Pearl Harbor to scare the public into total submission. And lo and behold there came the Twin Towers destruction. The Patriot Act was ramrodded thru Congress, legislators being told to not read and just approve. Otherwise, the Congress would be taken over by the executive branch; ie, a military coup! This was followed by the publication of plans to invade Iraq which had absolutely nothing to do with 9-11. Even Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9-11 but it sure had the pathway for a private gas line (forget the name momentarily) that American corporations wanted control over. Yes, Hussein did some sword rattling but what else could he do to protect the sovereignty of his country. He had no military left. The press went after Ritter to destroy his credibility accusing him of child pornography online. However, what did that have to do with his years with the UN Inspection team and all his military training. His expertise was still valid and was out there in the public for months before the attack.

And all the organizing and marches and petitions against this war that put out clear understanding of what was really going on--disrupting the Mid-East cohesion in order to install more military bases and gain control over the regions oil and States.

Do these notes ring a bell with you?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> If you don't like wars, don't vote Democrat. FDR entered us in WWII, which personally I think was a "good war" that had to be fought and won overwhelming. Truman got us into the Korean War, which was a conflict rather than a war, and we didn't win it. Kennedy (and later Johnson expanded our effort) got us into Vietnam, which was not a "good war." It was a mistake that ended badly. Bush senior got us into the first Gulf War. It was a coalition effort that ended well, but not with an overwhelming victory because he quit too soon. Bush, the younger, got us into the second Gulf War in Iraq and Obama ended it badly. Then, Obama expanded the war into Afghanistan, which was not winnable. Now he is withdrawing in defeat.
> 
> No war is anything but hell. But, if you get into one, don't start it; finish it. Pick one that has a benefit to society, is winnable, and bludgeon the aggressor into total submission or stay home.


So you think that the Taliban should hammer our military members even more? Do you think that the Iraqi people and al Qaeda who were attracted to Iraq because of our invasion were justified in bludgeoning our men and women who were forced to stay in the military past their exit dates by the Bush Administration? 
I would like to remind you that the Iraq/Kuwait interaction that you seem to approve of was based on lies. The public support for that fight was drummed up with falsehoods about babies killed. 
That seems to be what the Republicans do is create wartime situations using every lie in the book. 
President Obama got us out of Iraq which was a no win situation from day one. We were dragged into war with no exit strategy, because someone wanted the military industrial complex to be enriched.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Amen.


Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, but, Israel is NOT Judaism and the way that the Israeli gov't treats the Palestinians is no better than the the manner of treatment that the rest of mankind has handed out to Jews throughout history.
> One is separate from the other. Surely you can see that while responding to attacks on civilians may be appropriate keeping small children from eating and attending to education and not allowing adults to support their families is inhumane.
> How are those ghettoes any different than those in Poland during WWII?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Let me refresh you memory SQM. A lot of people said that Bush II wanted to finish up his father's failed war. However, it was not really about soggy egos. Hussein was threatening to resist the US boycotts and sanctions which were killing his country. He began to talk of changing his monetary base. This would have removed him from control of the US. Sounds familiar today with Russia and US sanctions. And if Hussein did this, he would have retained his influence over OPEC and the other Mid-East countries.
> He had been cooperating with the UN inspection team for years.
> 
> As I recall the UN inspection team had been declaring no WMD. You may remember Scott Ritter, a military lifer who was a top inspector on that team was speaking out all over this country against the war and the absence of WMD. Scott lives in upstate NY and did a lot of speaking in this region and on NPR, etc.
> ...


This is just more Bush hating by LWNs. Not true, but then the LWNs have a lot in common with Obama. They like to lie.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Correction on Vietnam. Kennedy did not get us into that war, Eisenhower did! He promised the people of Vietnam a free and democratic election and Kennedy had to go through with that promise.



Knit crazy said:


> If you don't like wars, don't vote Democrat. FDR entered us in WWII, which personally I think was a "good war" that had to be fought and won overwhelming. Truman got us into the Korean War, which was a conflict rather than a war, and we didn't win it. Kennedy (and later Johnson expanded our effort) got us into Vietnam, which was not a "good war." It was a mistake that ended badly. Bush senior got us into the first Gulf War. It was a coalition effort that ended well, but not with an overwhelming victory because he quit too soon. Bush, the younger, got us into the second Gulf War in Iraq and Obama ended it badly. Then, Obama expanded the war into Afghanistan, which was not winnable. Now he is withdrawing in defeat.
> 
> No war is anything but hell. But, if you get into one, don't start it; finish it. Pick one that has a benefit to society, is winnable, and bludgeon the aggressor into total submission or stay home.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> Correction on Vietnam. Kennedy did not get us into that war, Eisenhower did! He promised the people of Vietnam a free and democratic election and Kennedy had to go through with that promise.


Thanks, shayfaye, I knew that there was something wrong there, I was too lazy to doublecheck.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

There is a family who lives near me on welfare. They are on Medicaid. I took them to pick up their prescriptions and they paid nothing for them. Yes, it bothered me, because mine cost $37.50 for a 30 day supply with my employer health insurance. I have driven them to pick up free food at the food bank every month. 
It bothers me too because they have no incentive to change their way of life. I have offered to drive them to the local community college to learn a trade or career and it falls on deaf ears. Very frustrating. 
This is not a Democrat or Republican issue; it should concern all of us. It will eventually bankrupt us. Howerver, that being said, corporate welfare and no taxes from major corporations are hurting us even more.
We have to come together and hammer these issues out without shouting at each other and playing dirty tricks. And we really need to look closely at those we elect and reelect and so on and so on.



nuclearfinz said:


> What do you think the current administration is doing . Here in MA the governor keeps pushing for more and more taxes. The problem with Democrats is they want to keep spending more and more money and expect all Americans to just go along with it. The thing with Obamacare is it was designed to give Americans who didnt have health insurance to get it. That amounted to about 10-15% of the population at the time. Yet it affected all of us. It will continue to make all of us pay and not everyone will get insurance. Those who are caught in a loop hole and cant get it because of where they work will be paying for others. I resent the fact that I have to pay for people here in MA to get a better plan than I have. MASS Health has provisions for free that I cant get and must pay for out of pocket. Level the playing field and make it fair for all. the sad thing, much of the things that make insurance expensive are the costs from uninsured individuals that hospitals pass on to the rest of us, ( you know the $5.00 aspirin). They havent gone away. Now people have health insurance those costs should go down. Not!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> I am well aware of what the constitution says, What I said was I dont think it makes sense for dual citizenship and Thomas Jefferson himself hinted as much when he said you cant be a hyphenated American. Something that I dislike. You are American or not.


nuclearfinz
"......you can't be a......" is your opinion. Being American is an adaptation since all of us originated elsewhere.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> There is a family who lives near me on welfare. They are on Medicaid. I took them to pick up their prescriptions and they paid nothing for them. Yes, it bothered me, because mine cost $37.50 for a 30 day supply with my employer health insurance. I have driven them to pick up free food at the food bank every month.
> It bothers me too because they have no incentive to change their way of life. I have offered to drive them to the local community college to learn a trade or career and it falls on deaf ears. Very frustrating.
> This is not a Democrat or Republican issue; it should concern all of us. It will eventually bankrupt us. Howerver, that being said, corporate welfare and no taxes from major corporations are hurting us even more.
> We have to come together and hammer these issues out without shouting at each other and playing dirty tricks. And we really need to look closely at those we elect and reelect and so on and so on.


shayfaye
when we do away with all of the perks the wealthy receive I am very willing to go after those who refuse to do their fair share.


----------



## devale (Nov 6, 2012)

I will have my say when I vote....no more of the same.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Unfortunately Janet, the only thing out of Iraq is the press. The US still has troops there and the disruption they have caused has destroyed a highly organized and sophisticated country.

As for wars? Warmongering has been a major piece of foreign policy for over 50 years. So arguing about Dems vs Repubs on war is part of the way the public is kept divided amongst itself. The Military-Industrial Complex was named back in the 1950's I believe. Eisenhower, a Republican, left office warning the public of this horrific policy/program/political tendency (call it what you like) And wasn't it C.Wright Mills who wrote a scathing sociopolitical analysis of this political/economic development. 

What I see happening is that the US national budget is so overstretched with war and military spending. It is acknowledged that it gets 55% of the national budget, but this is less than real as many related military expenses are not included in this figure. An old tactic. The warmongering tactics have been changing dramatically. First, like with all industry, it is increasingly mechanized and fewer soldiers are needed. Increasingly, nuclear weaponry is being developed and used. The past 20 years have seen nuclear weapons in every war. No not Hiroshima type bombs. That is just old hat. Uranium, for example, is used to tip missiles which flood the land with toxic radiation. Look at the consequences on the Iraqi population and returning vets from those 2 wars. Cancers and genetic mutations and reproductive aberrations, etc. Industry loves war as it is market that is constantly replacing damaged, destroyed and obsolete weaponry. Uniforms and other products needed are in constant replacement demand. Think of the billions stolen by Haliburton in Iraq--literally stolen with shoddy work, no work and over billing, very high pay to the private mercenary armies, etc. So the US is privatizing war now and doesn't count their presence as part of the troops. Another manipulation of reality = more lies! 

Now we have a new level of fighting. Drones, targeted assassinations, kidnappings, and the massive funding of fundamentalist groups that will go in and fight and disrupt. Think of the recent Ukraine debacle where the US sponsored neo-Nazi groups and installed them with an illegal coup.

If people stopped fighting over emotional biases and actually did the research, I think we would be having very different kinds of conversations. But it would mean being willing to question many old beliefs that we were all taught in public school and thru mass media.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

I am with you on that. I wonder how some of the greedy people look at themselves in the mirror each morning. I thought that tv series on the Men Who Made America was a real eye opener. Especially the one on the flood in Johnstown, PA and it's real cause. Our class is truly thought of as expendable, I believe.

quote=Huckleberry]shayfaye
when we do away with all of the perks the wealthy receive I am very willing to go after those who refuse to do their fair share.[/quote]


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am glad that it is off your chest, now can you try to tell us how a hospital that cannot provide up to date health care can call itself a hospital?
> Trauma center status would be my call, maybe.


Janet Cooke
The many Hospitals which are in our area are all continually
expanding and improving. Hate to think having to go somewhere where they still practice medicine of years past.
Obamacare is eventually helping all of us stay healthier longer at a more reasonable premium.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Unfortunately Janet, the only thing out of Iraq is the press. The US still has troops there and the disruption they have caused has destroyed a highly organized and sophisticated country.
> 
> As for wars? Warmongering has been a major piece of foreign policy for over 50 years. So arguing about Dems vs Repubs on war is part of the way the public is kept divided amongst itself. The Military-Industrial Complex was named back in the 1950's I believe. Eisenhower, a Republican, left office warning the public of this horrific policy/program/political tendency (call it what you like) And wasn't it C.Wright Mills who wrote a scathing sociopolitical analysis of this political/economic development.
> 
> ...


I think that the warning of the dominance of the military industrial complex was about the selling of war to promote an oligarchy. 
I am not sure why the statement about Dems and Reps. I am neither. I am a socialist (lower case S). 
I am a child of the 60s, I question authority on a daily basis including those who post here with a voice of authority. ;-)


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

kathycam said:


> To respond, with the fact, that all prior lst familes, also traveled to foreign countries, is not an attack on the prior administration. The only ones being attacked, are the Obamas. Do you remember any other presidents' families being criticized for their travels, no matter how many friends and family they took along? Since Obama's MIL is a member of their household, I don't understand why anyone would even question her being on the trip. Neither, can I understand how the taxpayers are paying the MIL's way. lst families pay their own personal expenses. The security they have to travel with is a government expense. How in the world does the MIL add to that expense?


kathycam
Thank you. I find it interesting that the very Right keeps telling us how we as a Nation have fallen apart - out of wedlock childen etc. etc. - and when a Family as our First one truly lives an exemplary family life, they constantly criticize them. Go figure. Racism at its zenith.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sparrefankerl said:


> That's a new one on me. Who is his lover?


sprrefankerl
Knit crazy is down right crazy.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

catrocky said:


> I agree totally. Where would we be today if it was McCain or Romney? Think about it.


catrock
that gives me the creeps.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> I work in OB/GYN and my boss has a sign up in our waiting room applauding Obamacare


Ahirsh601
congratulations for having an intelligent Boss.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> He is a habitual liar. Nothing about him adds up to a good person and foolish Americans like you keep ignoring the truth of who he is and what is lacking in him as a man, much less a President.


Knit crazy
go and get some treatment.Your Racism and bigotry is eating you alive.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Knit Crazy -
> 
> Directions: Pretend you are an editor and go over each sentence of your most recent post. Then underline all the facts in blue and all your opinions in red. Then circle any statements that are accusative without justification in yellow. If you can find any "civilized discussion" underline those in puce. Thanks.


SQM
you expect her to understand your logic? I do not.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> Correction on Vietnam. Kennedy did not get us into that war, Eisenhower did! He promised the people of Vietnam a free and democratic election and Kennedy had to go through with that promise.


Actually the mess in Vietnam was begun under Truman. Following the outbreak of the Korean War, Truman announces "acceleration in the furnishing of military assistance to the forces of France and the Associated States in Indochina" and sends 123 non-combat troops to help with supplies to fight against the communist Viet Minh. In 1951 - Truman authorizes $150 million in French support.

In 1956, after a treaty between France and Vietnam, Eisenhower decided to create the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO). This treatys purpose was to stop any more communist influence in Southeast Asia. Using the SEATO as a cover, Eisenhower started to help build a new nation in South Vietnam. In 1955 GVN was born, the government of the republic of Vietnam, the leader being Ngo Dinh Diem, after a landslide election. Eisenhower did not commit American troops to Vietnam, but assigned advisors to the south.

By 1961 Kennedy was now in office and he had a new team to investigate the conditions in South Vietnam. This investigation was known as the December 1961 White Papers. The content in the white paper was basically a cry for more aid to Vietnam. Kennedy decided to send more advisors and machinery but would not send troops. In 1963 Kennedy put his support into a coup. Diem and his brother were killed. Three weeks later Kennedy was assassinated.

Lyndon Johnson was the president in office when the Gulf of Tonkin attack occurred. Two U.S ships were attacked off the coast of Vietnam in neutral water. The first attack was legitimate but no one knows if the second actually occurred. Johnson decided to use this situation as a chance to cover up the resolution that gave Johnson more war powers. This was called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The resolution was a series of air strikes against the North Vietnam territory. In 1965, the NFL attacked U.S. bases in South Vietnam and Johnson ordered a bombing mission called Operation Rolling Thunder. Johnson was the one who sent the first combat troops to Vietnam. Johnsons hope was that the North Vietnam would get tired of the war and want peace talks. The draft was instituted and anti-war movements reached an extreme. Protests on campuses erupted everywhere,


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> go and get some treatment.Your Racism and bigotry is eating you alive.


Another hate-filled LWN. Don't accuse me of racism. I'm going to vote for Ben Carson if he is a candidate in 2016. You are the bigot. You hate Christians and others of faith.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You are playing with semantics. They don't have legal status in this country. The word alien means foreign, which would cover those who illegally crossed America's borders.


Knit crazy
quit buying vegetables and fruits, much of it has been harvested by undocumented HARD workers. IF Employers would not be so greedy, the influx of the people you so despise would vanish.
I guess you support the Koch Brothers who want to make Slaves of all of us working stiff. If they would succeed, cheap labor would be in abundance and there no longer would be room for folks from others countries. Frightening thought.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Actually the mess in Vietnam was begun under Truman. Following the outbreak of the Korean War, Truman announces "acceleration in the furnishing of military assistance to the forces of France and the Associated States in Indochina" and sends 123 non-combat troops to help with supplies to fight against the communist Viet Minh. In 1951 - Truman authorizes $150 million in French support.
> 
> In 1956, after a treaty between France and Vietnam, Eisenhower decided to create the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO). This treatys purpose was to stop any more communist influence in Southeast Asia. Using the SEATO as a cover, Eisenhower started to help build a new nation in South Vietnam. In 1955 GVN was born, the government of the republic of Vietnam, the leader being Ngo Dinh Diem, after a landslide election. Eisenhower did not commit American troops to Vietnam, but assigned advisors to the south.
> 
> ...


Truman's assistance was intended to end European inperialism in Southeast Asia. So that our millionaires could profit. 
That was a totally different circumstance than the interference in independent Vietnam.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Another hate-filled LWN. Don't accuse me of racism. I'm going to vote for Ben Carson if he is a candidate in 2016. You are the bigot. You hate Christians and others of faith.


Only fake Christians, nice try, though. Anyone looking at what you have to say about the First Family knows that you are not Christian.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> Gee, I remember Ronald Reagan running on a promise to balance the budget. He lied and left us with a huge deficit. Also, he was the father of greed! I can't wait for Hilary, personally.


shayfaye
the record of leaving behind nothing but debt belongs to the Republicans. Democrats are always the clean-up crew. Bush however managed to accumulate more debt than most past Presidents and it will take several decades to recover from his mishandling our Nation in so many ways.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Violowl said:


> The administrator should not allow political discussions. This is a KNITTING discussion board. Not the place for this.


Violow
why are you participating? You may take advantage of "unwatch".


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> This is just more Bush hating by LWNs. Not true, but then the LWNs have a lot in common with Obama. They like to lie.


Knit crazy
lying is a mainstay of the Right Wingers. I guess you do it to keep us busy fact checking and not focusing on the issues at hand. Keep trying, you won't succeed.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

SherrySherry wrote:
It took years and generations to make that mess.

@sewbizgirl:
"What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.

Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.

Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)"

I agree with everything you said - and more. Referring to past administrations (that was then- this is now) doesn't hold water...yes all of them could be criticized but this one is the MOST embarrassing, incompetent, hypocritical, greedy and anti-American president that we've ever had the misfortune to have in office. Just imagine the fodder the next admin will have to use to blame O.


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## Debbie 123 (Oct 4, 2013)

I agree. It should be the president only.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the benefit of your personal experience. I have a question though. Isn't more people having insurance a good thing for you? Keep up the good work.



emmas mom said:


> I work in healthcare and needless to say, the Obama administration is on my black list. I work for a non profit hospital system. We provide millions of $ each year caring for patients with no insurance. I've watched as there have been major staff reductions starting with support people vs the hands on health care staff which is as it should be. Payients and family want and deserve caring staff who can spend time with them, calming fears and making all the most comfortable one can be in a scary environment. They also want the most recent diagnostic and surgical equipment. Obama's new health plan is a definte detriment to quality care.
> 
> Sorry! Just had to get that off my chest! I, however, admire the family dynamic they project.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


I agree that so many people look over the facts you stated. They are not worried, they do not see the problems that have and we will have as a nation with Obama.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's gratifying. Wonderful for all.



Ahirsch601 said:


> I work in OB/GYN and my boss has a sign up in our waiting room applauding Obamacare


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shame requires a conscience. I guess that's how they live with themselves.



Janet Cooke said:


> I know that I am not going to change your mind. I do hope that rational people on this site will go and take a peek at your favorite resting place and see what the "ladies" in F&F Denim and Pearls think is good Christian description of President Obama's life and history.
> You are an educated person, you have to know that the drivel you spout is disgusting and awful or offal. To try to spread the nastiness from those right wing sites claiming that President Obama was supporting his habits by prostituting himself while he was in college is just nasty; not only is it nasty, it is crazy.
> It reads like the conspiracy theorists want it to read, unbelievable. It is truly sad that anyone who claims to be as experienced and well traveled as you say you are would consider for a minute that the stories you spread are true.
> You should feel ashamed to have those letters trip off your fingers.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

:thumbup:


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

Jar said:


> :thumbup:


My thumbs up was for another post forgot to post reply. It was not ment for the above


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent suggestion SQM.



SQM said:


> Knit Crazy -
> 
> Directions: Pretend you are an editor and go over each sentence of your most recent post. Then underline all the facts in blue and all your opinions in red. Then circle any statements that are accusative without justification in yellow. If you can find any "civilized discussion" underline those in puce. Thanks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

shayfaye said:


> Gee, I remember Ronald Reagan running on a promise to balance the budget. He lied and left us with a huge deficit. Also, he was the father of greed! I can't wait for Hilary, personally.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

The LWNs have taken over this thread. That's too bad. I think they get tired of ravaging each other on War on Women and bored with themselves on Obamacare. They don't want rational discussion, just the ability to name call and fight. I have seen this time after time on interesting threads that they gravitate towards and turn into ugly scenes. I am Unwatching now. Have fun LWNs. For those who aren't in their group, a warning - it's going to go downhill from here.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

GranmaD said:


> damemary and janet Cooke Of course they have to drum up bogus reasons so Mrs. Obozo can take these expensive overseas excursions. To meet with diplomats etc etc. What a wonderful way to have the kids visit other countries and "learn". As long as it on the taxpayers dime. And the American people fall for these ruses. Gullible!


Very disrespectful.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> From an outsider's view, he is an dangerous man, intent on crippling America and subduing it to a more Muslim country. I just don't understand why he hasn't been impeached.


Thankyou so many people in America can not see that.


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> kathycam
> Thank you. I find it interesting that the very Right keeps telling us how we as a Nation have fallen apart - out of wedlock childen etc. etc. - and when a Family as our First one truly lives an exemplary family life, they constantly criticize them. Go figure. Racism at its zenith.


You hit the nail on the head.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

kittykatzmom said:


> WAKE UP Obama caused the mess!


 :thumbup:


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

moke said:


> Socialized medical coverage is not my idea of America!!!!!!!!!!! And West Wing Chicago politics have always been bad for this country, and not be trusted! Just thanking God he will be gone soon!


 :thumbup:


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## MaryA (Jan 26, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Nahhh...you don't want to know my thoughts on the Obama family.


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Designer1234, If we believe the rwn description on lwn's, I am proud to claim membership among the lwn's.

I care about people...all children, not just the ones lucky enough to have the advantages we've had, the sick, the elderly, the lonely......and animals too.

I don't think I'm better than anyone (except maybe bigots.)

I'm willing to share because I don't enjoy my blessings without sharing.

I am blessed with intellect and I use critical thinking to determine what policies to follow. I get testy when the debate degrades into mud wrestling.

And, most of all, I am most thankful for the wonderful lwn's I've met at KP. You give me hope.



Designer1234 said:


> WOW! A civil discussion!! -- your post sure does show that. And people who are on the left don't read recipes!! shame on them!
> 
> Your posts sicken me - and many others people, but it is one of many of the same type.


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> The LWNs have taken over this thread. That's too bad. I think they get tired of ravaging each other on War on Women and bored with themselves on Obamacare. They don't want rational discussion, just the ability to name call and fight. I have seen this time after time on interesting threads that they gravitate towards and turn into ugly scenes. I am Unwatching now. Have fun LWNs. For those who aren't in their group, a warning - it's going to go downhill from here.


Good bye.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jar said:


> I agree that so many people look over the facts you stated. They are not worried, they do not see the problems that have and we will have as a nation with Obama.


People overlook it because it is the most bizarre accusation we have seen this month. 
Anyone who believes that crap should seek help, fast.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At the top of this page is Unwatch Button. Click there. There is another under Watched Topics. That works too. After you click either it will change to Watch in case you want to change back.



inishowen said:


> I keep trying to unwatch this by unticking the box below Quick Reply. Am I doing something wrong? It won't go away.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> cialea
> never in the history of our country had a President to clean up nothing but messes and that without any help from the GOP. Let me rephrase that, without help from the Right Nuts.


Not true when Carter was in office he made the mess of the hostages. It took Regan to bring them home.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jar said:


> Not true when Carter was in office he made the mess of the hostages. It took Regan to bring them home.


Another history student, NOT.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

Ahirsch601 said:


> Well said! Hilary for 2016!!


 :thumbdown:


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## jaa520 (Apr 16, 2013)

Na, don't want to know my thoughts about them either.


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another history student, NOT.


What? Have you not read your history?


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## Jar (Oct 31, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> People overlook it because it is the most bizarre accusation we have seen this month.
> Anyone who believes that crap should seek help, fast.


Accusations this month? Try eight years of bizarre with Obama.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jar said:


> Accusations this month? Try eight years of bizarre with Obama.


Would that be President Obama?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jar said:


> What? Have you not read your history?


I certainly have read my history. When were the hostages released?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jar said:


> Not true when Carter was in office he made the mess of the hostages. It took Regan to bring them home.


And that is President Carter and President Reagan. 
What is it that you cannot give the people who hold that office the respect that they are due?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


Provide the link please that says he outlawed Christianity in the white house, and has put Muslim as his #1 religion. How has he tried to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? The US attacked Iraq without a reason, so yes we did do something wrong. Not all Muslims are trying to kill everyone. It is a group of extremists, not all Muslims that are trying to control everyone else. We have right wing extremists in this country too that think all the rest of us should live as they tell us to. President Obama showed his birth certificate. It is the right wing extremists that will not believe it is authentic and even if they were present at his birth would continue to say he wasn't born in the US. 
There are people that have talked about being in college with him, you just don't want to know the truth. Right wing extremists believe what they want to, truth or not.

Friend and roommate Sohale Siddiqi, whom the Associated Press located and interviewed in May 2008.

Roommate Phil Boerner, who provided his recollections of sharing a New York City apartment with classmate Barack Obama to the Columbia College Today alumni publication and the New York Times in early 2009.

Michael L. Baron, who taught the year-long honors seminar in American Foreign Policy that Barack Obama took during his senior year at Columbia and recalled in an NBC interview Obama's "easily acing" the class and receiving an A for his senior paper on the topic of nuclear negotiations with the Soviet Union.

Likewise, other external evidence documents Barack Obama's presence at Columbia from 1981-83, including:

An article by Barack Obama published in the 10 March 1983 edition of Columbia's Sundial school magazine.

A January 2005 Columbia College Today profile of Barack Obama as a Columbia alumnus.

A Columbia College press release from November 2008 identifying him as "the first College alumnus to be elected President of the United States."

Finally, the fatal flaw in the "Obama didn't go to Columbia" theory is that he couldn't have been admitted to Harvard Law School in 1988 without having received an undergraduate degree. If he wasn't attending Columbia from 1981-83, he would have had to complete two full years' worth of coursework at (and graduate from) some other accredited college  yet his time between the end of his Columbia days in 1983 and his entering Harvard Law in 1988 is accounted for (working at the Business International Corporation and the New York Public Interest Research Group, then serving as director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago), and no other school claims him as an alumnus, nor does anyone purport to have encountered him as a classmate or student at any other college or university during that period.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/columbia.asp#3DjcKLASOXXw0sUT.99

You would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses![/quote]

Well I answered some of your questions, although the truth isn't what you want. You want more lies to reinforce the lies you are passing along as truth. Well you will have to provide some answers yourself first, like where you got you crazy ideas and some proof. My guess is you do not have it.


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm sorry, must disagree with you, her family is wealthy.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Well I answered some of your questions, although the truth isn't what you want. You want more lies to reinforce the lies you are passing along as truth. Well you will have to provide some answers yourself first, like where you got you crazy ideas and some proof. My guess is you do not have it.


If people put half the energy into doing good that they do in finding erroneous facts about this president we would solve world hunger.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> OOPs forgot to answer your 1st question. I didn't say he knew the Twin Towers were going to be targeted. He knew the USA was being targeted, but, didn't know the exact particulars. He should have secured the whole country instead of a 'wait & see' attitude.


I already provided a link that said he knew there would be planes hijacked, but I agree no one could imagine what would be done with those planes. Did he do anything to increase security at airports, not that I have ever read. 
On Aug. 6, 2001, the mornings presidential daily brief  the top-secret document prepared by Americas intelligence agencies  featured the now-infamous heading: Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S. A few weeks later, on 9/11, Al Qaeda accomplished that goal.

There was lots of warnings, but no one paid attention. There are also lots of rading for anyone interested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you sure about that? He picks and chooses which laws he will enforce and which ones he will not. Then if he doesn't like the regulations in the law, he will change them. He has already shown disdain for the Constitution, how will the 22nd Amendment stop him?


Yes we are 100% sure about that. Only right wing extremists would think otherwise.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Now if the press is "shunned", interesting term, how are all of those videos of her speaking getting to the american public?
> Could you provide us with a list of the press corps that was included in all of the First Ladies' international trips since 1977?


If anyone is interested, they can go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/foreign-policy/first-lady-china-trip where there is stuff posted everyday about the trip and what they are doing. I am sure the right wing extremists aren't really interested, they just need one more thing to complain about. She will also be on PBS when she returns to talk to students about China.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kathycam said:


> Oh, no. I didn't say Chelsea got off easy. I meant that she probably got off easier than most of the presidential daughters, (especially, the Johnsons), because her parents were cognizant of the problems of their predecessors and did their best to keep the press away from her. Rush Limbaugh, can hardly be regarded as press. I don't think even Fox news would hire him, much less any other news outlet.


So now Mrs Obama and her daughters and her Mother are on a trip with no reporters. Why is it so hard for right wing extremists to understand "no press." Who in their right mind would want someone from Fox News talking to their daughters, knowing how Fox News feels about the president? I can guarantee you Fox would twist anything they said to make it into something to suit the Fox News agenda. I say good decision, Obamas.


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## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

I can't say anything either. I'm surprised all the other trips on tax payer money wasn't mentioned.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> there was none. Obama declared that the term "illegal alien" was politically incorrect. So he told his administration they were to use "undocumented" instead. No matter the name, they are still illegal.
> 
> Remember "A rose by any other name..."


Why do you take pleasure in calling other human beings aliens? Is that your good christian side doing that?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Didn't you just so the same as you are complaining about?[/quote
> 
> Right wind extremists are posting on these forums all the time, so I do know what you are thinking and saying and when I make comments it is about you and thee others who post on here. The poor are always talked about as "those people" and there is no way you can put them all in one group.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

NJG said:


> Why do you take pleasure in calling other human beings aliens? Is that your good christian side doing that?


NJG - I'm not going to enter into this bashing each other on either side, but have you looked up in the dictionary the definition of "alien". It is not derogatory or unchristian in any way. Don't really think these posters are using the word to defame anyone. As follows:

ALIEN: A resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).

ALIEN: A foreigner


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time.
> The term undocumented has been used since the 1970s, at least.
> Once again, I have to ask the question that so many have asked, what is it about this president that makes so many lie about the things he has said and done?
> What is it, joey, that makes it so hard to accept that this man can use the same tools that every other president who has gone before him used?
> What is the difference, joey, that "conservatives" cannot stomach about this president? What is so much more frightening about this man so many call a socialist than the last Democratice president who was also called a socialist? What makes this man so much scarier than "the first black president"?


In my opinion it is racism, but they will NEVER admit it. It has been this way since day one. The republicans were so sure Romney would win and were totally caught off guard that a black man could actually become president. That is why so much racism has come to light since he was elected. The fact that he was elected, by the people, really irritates them. It irritates them so much in fact, that they vowed to never give him a chance and they have stuck to that pledge. All it proves though is that they do not have the love of country that they pretend to have. They love their country if it is the way they perceive it to be, but if things change then count them out, as they can't love all these black and brown people. If they did they would work with him as past presidents have done. The republicans have turned into a very hateful group of people.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Excuse me. You don't see something wrong in the fact that they were released in the same day Reagan was sworn in? Jimmy Carter did an enormous amount of work on their plight. This was just to smack Carter in the face. Nothing to do with Reagan. Yes, some things went wrong, but it happens. Carter has been so maligned. I put on a sweater (Carter's advice) and did not turn up my thermostat (Reagan's advice).


Jar said:


> Not true when Carter was in office he made the mess of the hostages. It took Regan to bring them home.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> NJG - I'm not going to enter into this bashing each other on either side, but have you looked up in the dictionary the definition of "alien". It is not derogatory or unchristian in any way. Don't really think these posters are using the word to defame anyone. As follows:
> 
> ALIEN: A resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
> 
> ALIEN: A foreigner


Dictionaries are slow to embrace changes in language. usage.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> They couldn't be left home alone?


Oh, right, I didn't think of that. Good one.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

catrocky said:


> I agree totally. Where would we be today if it was McCain or Romney? Think about it.


That is a very scary thought. We would still be in Iraqand how many more dead and wounded Americans would there be. We would either be in Syria or going in the Ukraine. But also if it were McCain we would have Palin as vice president. Now that is scary.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> He is a habitual liar. Nothing about him adds up to a good person and foolish Americans like you keep ignoring the truth of who he is and what is lacking in him as a man, much less a President.


You are the habitual liar and a hater.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> The LWNs have taken over this thread. That's too bad. I think they get tired of ravaging each other on War on Women and bored with themselves on Obamacare. They don't want rational discussion, just the ability to name call and fight. I have seen this time after time on interesting threads that they gravitate towards and turn into ugly scenes. I am Unwatching now. Have fun LWNs. For those who aren't in their group, a warning - it's going to go downhill from here.


Hardly! If she is gone, really gone, then it can only go up without her unpleasant comments.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you *read* what I wrote?
> 
> I wrote: _"Are you sure about that? He picks and chooses which laws he will enforce and which ones he will not. Then if he doesn't like the regulations in the law, he will change them. He has already shown disdain for the Constitution, how will the 22nd Amendment stop him?_"
> 
> ...


Yes I am sure about that. State it anyway you want to, but what it boils down to is you are still off your rocker. I would bet everything I have that we will have a new president in 2016.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Yes I am sure about that. State it anyway you want to, but what it boils down to is you are still off your rocker. I would bet everything I have that we will have a new president in 2016.


Interesting to see all of this commenting about the actions of this president and Sec. Sebelius I wonder what positions were when President Bush was doing all he could to make torture legal.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

tamarque said:


> To be more accurate, people should remember that after Obama's election I, the GOP stood up, raged and stated that his would be a one-term presidency. They would make sure that he got nothing accomplished. Then with the second win, the GOP went absolutely rabid with the same b.s. about his citizenship and blatantly racial attacks. I have to wonder how many threats on his life have been made compared to other presidents. People like Sarah Palin have not stopped trying to incite riots and attacks on Obama. Why hasn't she been arrested!
> 
> It never made logical sense to me that Obama appointed so many of the GOP neo-cons to office and that was not good enough for them. The main point is that the neo-cons really thought they had the whole govt coup sewn up and here comes a Democrat who is a person of color and the neo-cons (read neo-nazis) went berzerk. Obama's administration has promote just about all of the neo-con agenda. The ACA was the GOP plan--until it became the Dem plan, then suddenly it was a bad failure. I can only understand these moves by understanding how the real power works in this country. It is all about global control and destruction of civil liberties. It does not matter who is in office. The problem for the Dems is that they historically support more social net programs than the GOP and they are having a very hard time doing that given the corporate control of the political and economic arenas, especially after Citizens United. And let's keep in mind that the majority on the Supreme Court are reactionary and conservative people, including Thomas, not appointed by Obama. In foreign policy, the GOP and Dems are very similar. The Dems sometimes will prefer a non-military intervention as opposed to the GOP Shock and Awe. But bombing the crap out of a small nation that was decimated by 10 yrs of sanctions, only made the US the biggest terrorist in the world and the biggest bully on the block. The US is now forced to find non-public military means for its brutal take over of other countries to preserve its empty image and cut costs. These wars will bankrupt this country!


 You say it all so well... couldn't agree with you more... And really this is just the tip of the iceberg! Ugh Sarah Palin... Don't even get me started... My BIL lives in Alaska... They hate her. I believe this president has done he could to help people in a just manner with integrity. Without serving himself other than to get reelected. People just don't want to try to understand... Some see a Bible and think they need to follow it to the ends of the earth... Others see color and just want to hate... I was not raised that way. My parents taught me to listen (And not to talking heads on Fox) To make my own decisions and to know when someone is trying to scam me... People you are being Scammed by the news stations you watch! Really... I got to get off of here they drive me nuts!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

inishowen said:


> I keep trying to unwatch this by unticking the box below Quick Reply. Am I doing something wrong? It won't go away.


Go to the top of the page and click unwatch. It is right above the avatars on the left.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

NJG said:


> That is a very scary thought. We would still be in Iraqand how many more dead and wounded Americans would there be. We would either be in Syria or going in the Ukraine. But also if it were McCain we would have Palin as vice president. Now that is scary.


I shudder at the thought


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hardly! If she is gone, really gone, then it can only go up without her unpleasant comments.


An odd position for her to take since anyone can see that the thread was fine with plenty of conservatives and liberals here until the extremists who claim to be loving Christians showed up.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> lying is a mainstay of the Right Wingers. I guess you do it to keep us busy fact checking and not focusing on the issues at hand. Keep trying, you won't succeed.


 :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> shayfaye
> when we do away with all of the perks the wealthy receive I am very willing to go after those who refuse to do their fair share.


I agree. Just as when Paul Ryan talks about the poor using welfare as a hammock, big corporations do the same thing. Sometimes people are raised on welfare and it is hard to get out of that frame of mind as that is all they know, it is the same with big corporations. They become more and more greedy as time goes by. Close up all the tax loopholes and then we can talk about those on welfare. I can't agree to balance the budget on the backs of the poor as republicans want to do.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

nuclearfinz said:


> You know, I dont think he is a liar. But he opens his mouth without thinking first with off the cuff comments . Back in the first term when a professor became irate with Cambridge, MA cops who were responding to a reported break in, the President when asked to comment said the cops acted stupidly before he had any facts in the case. The truth was the police asked for some ID as they were responding to a call and had no idea who he was and the professor mouthed off and was claiming racism.He kept blaming the previous administration for all his woes. Reagan inherited a huge deficit from Carter but didnt whine about it. He rolled up his sleeves and went to work. The bigger problem we have now is for the past 12-16 years we have elected to congress people who wont work together or compromise. All of a sudden, moderate candidates are bad in both parties. John McCain had a reputation of going against his own party if he thought their stance was not right. I do think he would have been a much better president than what we have had . ( Bush included).


I liked McCain too until the Palin mouth showed up & ruined it for him... I still can't figure out whose bright Idea she was... I am afraid that that is how lowly the Republican men have begun to think of all woman (Or maybe always have) to think we would hop on the wagon just because a woman (any woman) was on the ticket.... Sad but very possibly true.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Valkyrie said:


> First of all do you really think she is on vacation? I would almost bet one of my needle sets that she is one of the hardest working people in the white house, next to her daughter and son-i-l.
> Plus, this is really a political task and they have a busy schedule to complete, and I don't mean laying on the beach, fishing in the rivers, or just sleeping late.


 :thumbup:


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

cialea said:


> I liked McCain too until the Palin mouth showed up & ruined it for him... I still can't figure out whose bright Idea she was... I am afraid that that is how lowly the Republican men have begun to think of all woman (Or maybe always have) to think we would hop on the wagon just because a woman (any woman) was on the ticket.... Sad but very possibly true.


And only a heartbeat would have separated her from the presidency. Shudder.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

kathycam said:


> The Defense of Marriage Act was ruled Unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Most of the Supreme Court was placed by Republicans, so don't blame Obama.
> 
> The Dream Act has never been voted on, by the legislature and there is no Executive order pertaining to the nonexistent Dream Act. Many states have their own versions of the Dream Act, including Texas. The Bushes, and their backers and constituents, have a vested interest in cheap, illegal alien labor. They don't want them going anywhere.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> Interesting to see all of this commenting about the actions of this president and Sec. Sebelius I wonder what positions were when President Bush was doing all he could to make torture legal.


 :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> The LWNs have taken over this thread. That's too bad. I think they get tired of ravaging each other on War on Women and bored with themselves on Obamacare. They don't want rational discussion, just the ability to name call and fight. I have seen this time after time on interesting threads that they gravitate towards and turn into ugly scenes. I am Unwatching now. Have fun LWNs. For those who aren't in their group, a warning - it's going to go downhill from here.


Don't let the door hit you on the back side on the way out. Your nasty comments won't be missed. Bye, Bye


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jar wrote:
Not true when Carter was in office he made the mess of the hostages. It took Regan to bring them home.

Actually President Reagan had nothing to do with bringing the hostages home. They were released just as he was taking the oath of office. Now don't forget Iran-Contra.
The scheme clearly ignored U.S. law, and had Oliver North not taken the fall, it could have led to Reagan's impeachment.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> NJG - I'm not going to enter into this bashing each other on either side, but have you looked up in the dictionary the definition of "alien". It is not derogatory or unchristian in any way. Don't really think these posters are using the word to defame anyone. As follows:
> 
> ALIEN: A resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).
> 
> ALIEN: A foreigner


Explain it away any way you want. The immigrants have voiced their opinion that they don't like it, so out of respect I don't use it. Republicans love showing disrespect so they all use it--because it is the definition--I think not. They use it because it is a negative sounding name to call them. If illegal immigrant sounded worse, they would use it. Many many years ago when immigrants came to this country, were they called aliens? You know they weren't. Use alien if you want, but we all know why you do.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cialea said:


> I liked McCain too until the Palin mouth showed up & ruined it for him... I still can't figure out whose bright Idea she was... I am afraid that that is how lowly the Republican men have begun to think of all woman (Or maybe always have) to think we would hop on the wagon just because a woman (any woman) was on the ticket.... Sad but very possibly true.


I think the republicans really thought Hillary would win the nomination and so they picked Palin, not because she would be a good president if necessary, but because she was a woman. They have such a false idea of how to reach women voters. Sarah Palin did not reach me at all, and obviously not many other women either.


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## CuriousKitty (Dec 19, 2013)

Raybo said:


> Never assume :XD:


*snicker* *snort*


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another history student, NOT.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> If people put half the energy into doing good that they do in finding erroneous facts about this president we would solve world hunger.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"The draft was instituted and anti-war movements reached an extreme."

This is where Crazy's report goes crazy. The anti-war movements were more ethical than the war on Vietnam and were only "extreme" to make an obtuse government listen and to wake up the sleeping majority of citizens. While I was having the time of my life in those years, I still did not see the anti-war movement making a difference. American Government allows you to complain but your complaints fall on deaf ears. That is our illusion of freedom.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Yes I am sure about that. State it anyway you want to, but what it boils down to is you are still off your rocker. I would bet everything I have that we will have a new president in 2016.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Take a break but don't let them drive you away. I appreciate your comments.



cialea said:


> You say it all so well... couldn't agree with you more... And really this is just the tip of the iceberg! Ugh Sarah Palin... Don't even get me started... My BIL lives in Alaska... They hate her. I believe this president has done he could to help people in a just manner with integrity. Without serving himself other than to get reelected. People just don't want to try to understand... Some see a Bible and think they need to follow it to the ends of the earth... Others see color and just want to hate... I was not raised that way. My parents taught me to listen (And not to talking heads on Fox) To make my own decisions and to know when someone is trying to scam me... People you are being Scammed by the news stations you watch! Really... I got to get off of here they drive me nuts!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> An odd position for her to take since anyone can see that the thread was fine with plenty of conservatives and liberals here until the extremists who claim to be loving Christians showed up.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> "The draft was instituted and anti-war movements reached an extreme."
> 
> This is where Crazy's report goes crazy. The anti-war movements were more ethical than the war on Vietnam and were only "extreme" to make an obtuse government listen and to wake up the sleeping majority of citizens. While I was having the time of my life in those years, I still did not see the anti-war movement making a difference. American Government allows you to complain but your complaints fall on deaf ears. That is our illusion of freedom.


You are right as rain there, SQM. The extreme reaction was, as it has been in this decade in so many totaltarian states, on the part of the government not those utilizing their constitutional rights. 
Documents released recently make it quite clear that much of the violence was generated on the part of gov't employed infiltrators who suggested and made availble means to create violent actions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I figure Palin was a concession to the rw of the party. She fits in perfectly with how rich white men look at women. It's not flattering to either. Face it. She wasn't nominated because of her qualifications.



cialea said:


> I liked McCain too until the Palin mouth showed up & ruined it for him... I still can't figure out whose bright Idea she was... I am afraid that that is how lowly the Republican men have begun to think of all woman (Or maybe always have) to think we would hop on the wagon just because a woman (any woman) was on the ticket.... Sad but very possibly true.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> "The draft was instituted and anti-war movements reached an extreme."
> 
> This is where Crazy's report goes crazy. The anti-war movements were more ethical than the war on Vietnam and were only "extreme" to make an obtuse government listen and to wake up the sleeping majority of citizens. While I was having the time of my life in those years, I still did not see the anti-war movement making a difference. American Government allows you to complain but your complaints fall on deaf ears. That is our illusion of freedom.


 :thumbup: I agree.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I figure Palin was a concession to the rw of the party. She fits in perfectly with how rich white men look at women. It's not flattering to either. Face it. She wasn't nominated because of her qualifications.


How professional campaigners misjudged that so badly is beyond me, how anyone with an ounce of intellectual ability saw Sarah Palin as a match for Hillary Clinton or as a viable candidate for national office is simply astounding. 
Did they have any coversations with her? That one move showed the John McCain team as totally desperate and misguided in that election cycle.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

My Cookeeeeeeeeeee -
Ah - we did not need the gov't to stir us up. We saw what was going on and knew it was bull cubes. And we were really upset with the draft. Plus add a few crazy, brilliant hippies into the mix - then Pop Goes The Weasel.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thoughts about McCain exactly. Just when he seems to make sense, he sells his soul to the devil. I figure his character is a little....flexible.



Janet Cooke said:


> How professional campaigners misjudged that so badly is beyond me, how anyone with an ounce of intellectual ability saw Sarah Palin as a match for Hillary Clinton or as a viable candidate for national office is simply astounding.
> Did they have any coversations with her? That one move showed the John McCain team as totally desperate and misguided in that election cycle.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> How professional campaigners misjudged that so badly is beyond me, how anyone with an ounce of intellectual ability saw Sarah Palin as a match for Hillary Clinton or as a viable candidate for national office is simply astounding.
> Did they have any coversations with her? That one move showed the John McCain team as totally desperate and misguided in that election cycle.


and why, TG, he was not elected. As soon as Katie Couric made cubes out of her, that was his finish. The average American could see what a total idiot she is. However, my dear friend's son lived across the street from her and liked her and her family. But then he is a libertarian who makes a living taking executive into the wild to hunt bear. (Please don't knock my friend - she danced in the boston ballet and her husband is the most creative straight man I know. They were very bewildered by his choice of profession.)

I never got around to answering the thread's question directly - 'NO'.


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## Dakota Sun (May 25, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> What mess? All the massive job loss, health insurance cancellations, and shrinking of our military defense happened under his watch. No one has ever had to account or pay for the murders in Benghazi. The IRS is now a strongarm device for political enemies of the prez... And the Russians think we are a bunch of panties because of Obama. This country was eons stronger and better off before he took over.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the DEBT he has created. No, most of it wasn't there before Obama.
> 
> Can't stand those people! They couldn't screw up America more if they tried (and they have been trying!)


Well said and I agree with you 100%. Our health insurance has gone sky high, gas prices are out of sight and companies have moved out of the USA because of high taxes. I could go on and on. I have lived through a lot of Presidents and this one has been the worst in my book. Freedom of Speech and the press. I stand behind the Constitution of the United States Of America and our fore fathers would turn over in their graves if they knew how bad our country is right now and wanting to change the Constitution. AMEM!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Everyone is aware of how many posters here hate the president. 
As for bringing along his mother-in-law, she has been Sasha and Malia's caretaker since the family moved into the White House. SHe most likely acted in that capacity here. 
I have no ideas on which government official brings 
whomever along on junkets, vacations, etc, and frankly have much better things to think about. Hopefully, when Obama's term is up the bashing will stop.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Dakota Sun said:


> Well said and I agree with you 100%. Our health insurance has gone sky high, gas prices are out of sight and companies have moved out of the USA because of high taxes. I could go on and on. I have lived through a lot of Presidents and this one has been the worst in my book. Freedom of Speech and the press. I stand behind the Constitution of the United States Of America and our fore fathers would turn over in their graves if they knew how bad our country is right now and wanting to change the Constitution. AMEM!!!!!!!!!!!!


A few things, if you would...

What sort of health insurance do you have and how do you procure it? 
Do you really want the federal government meddling in the free market for oil even though you are expressing that you don't like the government creating requirements for health insurance?
Could you identify these companies that have moved from the US due to high taxes? Most of them seem to do very well at avoiding paying taxes. 
What evidence is there that the men who allowed people to be held as slaves and disallowed women and men who did not own property from voting would be disappointed or that we should care that they would be?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Everyone is aware of how many posters here hate the president.
> As for bringing along his mother-in-law, she has been Sasha and Malia's caretaker since the family moved into the White House. SHe most likely acted in that capacity here.
> I have no ideas on which government official brings
> whomever along on junkets, vacations, etc, and frankly have much better things to think about. Hopefully, when Obama's term is up the bashing will stop.


You would think, wouldn't you, that Mrs. Robinson travelled in her own separate jet. How much do you suppose it added to fuel costs to have an additional woman aboard?


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## Bloomers (Oct 11, 2013)

I doubt you want my opinion either. I believe he will go down in history as the president who destroyed the US from the inside out.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

I have read all 57 pages of this discussion. Sometimes my breath was taken away with the number of posters so obviously parroting what they are hearing and reading via the media. Is critical thinking no longer taught in school ? The manipulation of "facts" is so obvious, and so readily accepted, especially by those who would benefit most if they could only recognize the propaganda being foisted upon them. 
I want to thank all those who have taken the time to clarify facts and refute the lies while staying calm, patient, and polite. I lack the skills to write quickly and clearly, so I am grateful to read the posts of those who can do this. I am a strong cheerleader on the side. Those who holler the loudest, thinking that noise means that they are right, forget that there are those who will think carefully about the message. We will make our own informed decision.


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## jaa520 (Apr 16, 2013)

Ditto, Bloomers


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> A few things, if you would...
> 
> What sort of health insurance do you have and how do you procure it?
> Do you really want the federal government meddling in the free market for oil even though you are expressing that you don't like the government creating requirements for health insurance?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> I have read all 57 pages of this discussion. Sometimes my breath was taken away with the number of posters so obviously parroting what they are hearing and reading via the media. Is critical thinking no longer taught in school ? The manipulation of "facts" is so obvious, and so readily accepted, especially by those who would benefit most if they could only recognize the propaganda being foisted upon them.
> I want to thank all those who have taken the time to clarify facts and refute the lies while staying calm, patient, and polite. I lack the skills to write quickly and clearly, so I am grateful to read the posts of those who can do this. I am a strong cheerleader on the side. Those who holler the loudest, thinking that noise means that they are right, forget that there are those who will think carefully about the message. We will make our own informed decision.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Cannot help but note that even though the people who are asked the direct question come on and off line, and actually appear again on the thread, the questions don't get answered. 
I asked that jar person specifically *when* the hostages held by Iran were released, I received answers from others who are cognizant of the history of that sad time. Nothing from that poster/member has appeared as far as I can tell. 
I may have missed it and would apologize if it has appeared. I think it is despicable to carry forward the lie about Jimmy Carter and then, when it is demonstrated that he did do the right thing, ignore the evidence that his team did negotiate the release of those men. 
It just shows who has honor and who has none.


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## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> The media isn't known for telling the full and/or truthful story. They love to stir the pot. They tell what the people WANT to hear, not what they should hear.
> 
> That being said, think about this. Why does the MIL live in the White House with them? Because she takes care of the girls in place of a nanny. Therefore, shouldn't she be taken care of the same way ALL the nannies were when they lived in the White House taking care of the First Family's children?
> 
> So my point is this...instead of the media reporting that the Obama's children were accompanied on their trip by their grandmother, who is also their care taker, the media stirs the pot by referring her to President Obama's MIL. Makes it so much more enticing for the haters doesn't it?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Before you complain about others not answering your questions, you need to answer questions asked of you. You can look for the ones you did not answer, yourself.


They have to be questions that the questioner will accept the answers for. Now go play your games with someone who cares.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

I'm waiting for someone to start the dirge for Fred Phelps.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

maysmom said:


> I'm waiting for someone to start the dirge for Fred Phelps.


His son wrote a somewhat scathing Obit about his father in the Daily Kos.

Glad Nature did what Nature does and Phelps Pere has moved into a different dimension. Hope he can improve himself in his next recycle.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Jar said:


> I agree that so many people look over the facts you stated. They are not worried, they do not see the problems that have and we will have as a nation with Obama.


Given your vile emotionality and total lack of fact, I can only see your two-stepping to the march towards totalitarianism. There is not one single fact in your statement. For someone who dislikes lying, how do you reconcile yours? Your bigotry and racism are so profound that it is impossible to know where to begin. Get some professional help!


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another history student, NOT.


actually Carter was successful in negotiating the release of the hostages. however, behind the scenes the Reagen people literally asked that the hostages be held till after the election in the US. It was done so Reagen could look like a hero. What a D- actor was doing in the White House told me the sad story of the American public state of understanding and willingness to nurse on the tit of bigotry.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another history student, NOT.


actually Carter was successful in negotiating the release of the hostages. however, behind the scenes the Reagen people literally asked that the hostages be held till after the election in the US. It was done so Reagen could look like a hero. What a D- actor was doing in the White House told me the sad story of the American public state of understanding and willingness to nurse on the tit of bigotry.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I seem to catch up every 6 pages or so and it is hard to figure out just what to respond. So..

1.Bush and the GOP was so unpopular not only over Iraq but the entire neo-con agenda. The GOP expected to lose the election despite all the Black Box maneuverings of the vote and voters. John McCain was a throw away candidate and that is why they put up a Sarah Palin. They didn't realize just how out of control and narcissistic she would be. And remember her using political monies for her wardrobe? McCain is a very spoiled white male who father kept bailing him out all his life. All info shows that as a prisoner he was a total sell-out.

2. Does anyone recall the concept of Blaming the Victim? There was a book with that title spelling out in very clear terms how the system sets up people with little power to be blamed for their inability to move out of the despair they were born into. I really cringe with rage every time someone begins to attack poor and working people for ruing in the country's economy. With a minimum of 55% of the budget spent on the military and less than 1% spent on welfare, any thinking person would clearly see that welfare for the poor has nothing to do with breaking our economy.

3. The statistics over and over show how the wealthy are stealing all the money of the country and putting in virtually nothing. These people are sociopaths.  They have no conscience. More so, they mock people who do. So all the fine people who think they are so moralistic, need to know how despised they are by the very people they love to admire.

4. GE paid $0 in taxes last year. Several dozen other and bigger corporations also paid no taxes. Why aren't all our right wing conservative folks here railing about that. Why is it okay for the wealthy to write their own laws with loop holes to avoid taxes on their wealth and that of their corporations? If I recall correctly 45% of the income of this country went to the top <1% of the population. And if my memory is not correct, the truth will show the same growing gap between the top handful of people and the rest of the public.

5. Someone noted how the draft was instituted by Johnson? Heck no. It was an ongoing reality for males for previous decade. Since Vietnam was never declared a war, but a police action, troops sent into that area were not considered military troops. Those numbers began to increase as the country came out of the McCarthy Red Scare years of the 1950's. People's consciousness began to grow about all kinds of social issues. The anti-nuclear movement with Bertrand Russel's name attached to it was the first I recall. But the Civil Rights movement began to grow as disparities in education, health care, access to social services, jobs, decent housing etc became unbearable in a country that was expanding industrially and people of color were being left out of the benefits. As more and more people began to come home in coffin's and maimed the public began to raise questions about what was going on in our name. 58,000 Americans died in Viet Nam! The coffins coming off the planes were non-stop. The men in the service began to rebel against the insanity of it all. Mai lai was a big shock to Americans. And Martin Luther King delivered his speech linking Viet Nam to the same institutions that promoted racism. He began to speak out on Social Justice for all and it got him killed. Imagine, the frightening prospect of an entire country organized for equality and social justice for all. Whoops, there would go all the corporate thieves, wars, tax loop holes, and there would be money enough for real education for everyone as well as housing, clean streets, etc.

Just some comments relative to the a few pages of reading those of others.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Cannot help but note that even though the people who are asked the direct question come on and off line, and actually appear again on the thread, the questions don't get answered.
> I asked that jar person specifically *when* the hostages held by Iran were released, I received answers from others who are cognizant of the history of that sad time. Nothing from that poster/member has appeared as far as I can tell.
> I may have missed it and would apologize if it has appeared. I think it is despicable to carry forward the lie about Jimmy Carter and then, when it is demonstrated that he did do the right thing, ignore the evidence that his team did negotiate the release of those men.
> It just shows who has honor and who has none.


Aside from ingrained racism and general bigotry, there is a social science concept that I like to refer: Cognitive Dissonance. It is a legitimate concept that has been researched for several decades. It is simply the idea that when people hold beliefs, they will adjust all reality to conform to those beliefs no matter what you point out. I like to talk about faith based learning. By definition faith is something that totally defies facts. It is an emotionally based, cellular learning process. People operating out of cognitive dissonance will do what many on this forum do. They don't present facts, history, or anything else that is real. Wild emotions, ad hominems galore, predictions of doom and disaster based on gossimer. As the frustration of this person grows the accusations get wilder, they use name calling and if in their presence they may begin to scream to shut you out and even get violent. We have all seen this kind of behavior on many issues.

It is a fact that people on the right have a much greater tendency to behave and argue out of this state of Cognitive Dissonance. They like to get moralistic and self-righteous while making pronouncements that can never be backed by fact/reality. And they love to tell you how they are not racist but if only those people would go back to Africa where they belong!

Of course, it is only Black people who are on welfare that is destroying our country. This despite the statistics that show it is mainly white, single parent women who are receiving subsidies.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> His son wrote a somewhat scathing Obit about his father in the Daily Kos.
> 
> Glad Nature did what Nature does and Phelps Pere has moved into a different dimension. Hope he can improve himself in his next recycle.


I was stunned by that article by Nathan Phelps. It was such a heart felt apology for all the pain his father caused. We can only imagine how that man divided his family with such vile attitudes and behavior. I recall when he came to my town when we had the gay weddings. Straight people in town organized a citizen's posse to ensure that this man would do no harm. People were actually trained to keep the public from responding to attempts to incite them. But my town is more conscious than that and we had no incidents and Phelps left with his tail betw his legs unable to succeed in creating havoc. His daughter was with him, a cute little red head. She was one of his weapons, using her to spit on people. If they reacted he would file lawsuits. Crazy b.....d. Glad he is gone, but his church is not.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

An observation:

Looking back 58 pages I see that the original question was self-serving. The originator, over time, certainly does not appear to be someone who supports President Obama. Just another weak attempt at criticism without offering fact.

However, I continue to actively participate in the thread. Why? Because there have been many interesting and thoughtful comments posted. Because rumors and lies should not be allowed to stand without being exposed to the light of day. And because I enjoy thinking.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I think we call those questions rhetorical; ie, not really wanting an answer and designed to poke at something else.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> His son wrote a somewhat scathing Obit about his father in the Daily Kos.
> 
> Glad Nature did what Nature does and Phelps Pere has moved into a different dimension. Hope he can improve himself in his next recycle.


Those of us who are aware of him only peripherally may not see that he learned much that would be useful to any improvement. We can only hope that God does not send him back as a self loathing minority, eh?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> An observation:
> 
> Looking back 58 pages I see that the original question was self-serving. The originator, over time, certainly does not appear to be someone who supports President Obama. Just another weak attempt at criticism without offering fact.
> 
> However, I continue to actively participate in the thread. Why? Because there have been many interesting and thoughtful comments posted. Because rumors and lies should not be allowed to stand without being exposed to the light of day. And because I enjoy thinking.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

SQM said:


> His son wrote a somewhat scathing Obit about his father in the Daily Kos.
> 
> Glad Nature did what Nature does and Phelps Pere has moved into a different dimension. Hope he can improve himself in his next recycle.


I figure he got an awful surprise.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

any thinking person would clearly see that welfare for the poor has nothing to do with breaking our economy.

And therein lies the problem, Tamarque. It's too easy to let others do the thinking.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Those of us who are aware of him only peripherally may not see that he learned much that would be useful to any improvement. We can only hope that God does not send him back as a self loathing minority, eh?


Hopefully, he'll reincarnate as a worm, lol. His daughter is almost if not as bad, but it looks like she's getting shut out of Westboro Baptist.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Hopefully, he'll reincarnate as a worm, lol. His daughter is almost if not as bad, but it looks like she's getting shut out of Westboro Baptist.


Here's hoping that she doesn't head out and set up a new hate-filled organization. It is easy to see that there are plenty thirsting for an outlet all in the name of that savior.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I agree on so many levels.



tamarque said:


> I seem to catch up every 6 pages or so and it is hard to figure out just what to respond. So..
> 
> 1.Bush and the GOP was so unpopular not only over Iraq but the entire neo-con agenda. The GOP expected to lose the election despite all the Black Box maneuverings of the vote and voters. John McCain was a throw away candidate and that is why they put up a Sarah Palin. They didn't realize just how out of control and narcissistic she would be. And remember her using political monies for her wardrobe? McCain is a very spoiled white male who father kept bailing him out all his life. All info shows that as a prisoner he was a total sell-out.
> 
> ...


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Damemary--Phelps son, according to his obit letter, never was part of his father's vilification of gay people of that church. He made it clear, I thought, that is was a very painful part of his growing up and very divisive in the family. His writing this letter I think was a way of purging himself of that hostile and bigoted energy as well as making a universal apology to all who were hurt by that man.

Maysmon--this is the crux, in a sense, of this whole discussion, all 59 pages of it. Many people have no clue about what controls them in life. They have been successfully taught to hate and fear anything different. They are taught that the only thing important is obedience and a fear of questioning the dogma preached to them. Puboic education was supported by the nice, white, middle-class liberal women of the mid 19-20c. However, it was only when burgeoning industry needed a working class that could read basic instructions and some who could engineer equipment and, yes, even type that public education was supported. The captains of industry and the church who were paying to house and educate the working girls sucked off family farms no longer wanted to foot the bill. Besides, the way of life had changed significantly, at least in the North, so that girls going to work in factories and city shops was considered a legitimate thing to do. So public education developed in the service of the industries that needed this new, cheap labor.

So, education became a social institution of Mass social manipulation, designed to dumb down the average mind. Anyone who doesn't understand that, has no understanding of how this country works. I will say it wasn't the inventor of this practice. All organized religions have been used to control the masses. The Mass media is so structured as well. And families are the institution of reproduction but can only have their children if they do the bidding of the State. Look what happens to families that refuse to vaccinate or even, in this day, nurse their babies. Or even want to educate their own children. They can do this only if they support the mainstream ideology which includes fundamentalist religion. That is not threatening. But home school based on a rejection of a racist, class based education system and you become the enemy of the state and chance losing your children. 

I try to be careful to not blame people for their own ignorance as I understand how it is cultivated. It is another form of blaming the victim. However, I do hold people responsible for refusing to learn new ideas. I think it a difficult and fine line to walk betw the two, but it needs to be navigated if we are to find any means of cross dialogue.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

tamarque said:


> Damemary--Phelps son, according to his obit letter, never was part of his father's vilification of gay people of that church. He made it clear, I thought, that is was a very painful part of his growing up and very divisive in the family. His writing this letter I think was a way of purging himself of that hostile and bigoted energy as well as making a universal apology to all who were hurt by that man.
> 
> Maysmon--this is the crux, in a sense, of this whole discussion, all 59 pages of it. Many people have no clue about what controls them in life. They have been successfully taught to hate and fear anything different. They are taught that the only thing important is obedience and a fear of questioning the dogma preached to them. Puboic education was supported by the nice, white, middle-class liberal women of the mid 19-20c. However, it was only when burgeoning industry needed a working class that could read basic instructions and some who could engineer equipment and, yes, even type that public education was supported. The captains of industry and the church who were paying to house and educate the working girls sucked off family farms no longer wanted to foot the bill. Besides, the way of life had changed significantly, at least in the North, so that girls going to work in factories and city shops was considered a legitimate thing to do. So public education developed in the service of the industries that needed this new, cheap labor.
> 
> ...


Wow, You have really given substance to things I have been thinking for a while... Very thought provoking.. I thank you!


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

damemary said:


> An observation:
> 
> Looking back 58 pages I see that the original question was self-serving. The originator, over time, certainly does not appear to be someone who supports President Obama. Just another weak attempt at criticism without offering fact.
> 
> However, I continue to actively participate in the thread. Why? Because there have been many interesting and thoughtful comments posted. Because rumors and lies should not be allowed to stand without being exposed to the light of day. And because I enjoy thinking.


 :thumbup:


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

SQM said:


> and why, TG, he was not elected. As soon as Katie Couric made cubes out of her, that was his finish. The average American could see what a total idiot she is. However, my dear friend's son lived across the street from her and liked her and her family. But then he is a libertarian who makes a living taking executive into the wild to hunt bear. (Please don't knock my friend - she danced in the boston ballet and her husband is the most creative straight man I know. They were very bewildered by his choice of profession.)
> 
> I never got around to answering the thread's question directly - 'NO'.


I still think it shows how little the men of the Republican party think of woman in general... Hey a woman is on the ticket! They got my vote! Not after the 1st time I heard her open her mouth...My husband & I looked at each other & said what the )**&^%??? And ran the other way!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another history student, NOT.


Not sure what you meant. 
Hostages were taken during Carters administration and released shortly after Reagan took office, Fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

damemary said:


> I figure Palin was a concession to the rw of the party. She fits in perfectly with how rich white men look at women. It's not flattering to either. Face it. She wasn't nominated because of her qualifications.


Smart women scare most men... My father was a very critical thinker so I must admit most of my thoughts run from what he would point out to us... we would watch the news every night while eating dinner... Our conversations ran from science, to politics, religion and music... He was democrat... Was not very religious... Loved many different genres of music and wanted facts... Plain & simple facts... I am not sure what he would think of how our news is presented to us today.... Is it all entertainment? I work with all men in a very scientific field. For the most part I am a anomaly to them... Something to be studied. LOL ... I give them something to think about now and then. They ask me why I feel how I do about certain things & I do the same... The difference is they get mad when I can't begin to agree with them! Same with my sister who has now "Found religion" Our father never specifically pointed it out but made many references to the fact that there are very few "Good" woman in the story the Bible presents... Well some are followers.. Thank you for listening and I love to read your comments.. always thoughtful without the emotion of anger.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Not sure what you meant.
> Hostages were taken during Carters administration and released shortly after Reagan took office, Fact.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis


The FACT is that they were released during President Reagan's Inaugural Speech. That is about as shortly after he took office as you can get. Do you really think that it was his administration that did the work? 
When you put this stuff forward while those of us who were alive to see it play out are still around we are here to correct the lies. Yes, lies. That is what you are spreading. Please, either do adequate research or at least stop spreading propaganda that makes the believers of that drivel look like fools.

September of 1980 is when serious negotiations began. At that point nobody knew who would be president for the next 4 years.

The Truth-O-Meter Says:

Ronald Reagans philosophy of "peace through strength" is why "the Iranians released the hostages on the same day and at the same hour that Reagan was sworn in."
Mitt Romney on Tuesday, March 6th, 2012 in a speech to the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee

Mitt Romney says the Iranians released hostages in 1981 because they feared Ronald Reagan's approach to foreign policy

Share this story:

During a March 6, 2012, video address to a conference of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, Mitt Romney seized the tough foreign policy mantle of President Ronald Reagan.

"I believe the right course is what Ronald Reagan called peace through strength," Romney told the pro-Israel group. "There's a reason why the Iranians released the hostages on the same day and at the same hour that Reagan was sworn in. As president, I'll offer that kind of clarity, strength and resolve."

But was Reagans "peace through strength" philosophy really responsible for freeing the 52 Americans who were taken hostage by Islamic militants and held for 444 days?

First, a reminder of what the hostage crisis was all about. In 1979, the Shah of Iran -- who had been installed and supported by successive United States administrations -- was overthrown by Islamic revolutionaries. Militants took over the American embassy and held hostages from Nov. 4, 1979, until Jan. 20, 1981 -- the day President Jimmy Carter passed the reins to Reagan, who had defeated him amid widespread public disapproval of the incumbents handling of the crisis.

"Iran contacted the Carter administration in September 1980 with a proposal to end the hostage crisis," said Gary Sick, a Columbia University professor who has written two books about the Iran hostage crisis. "The U.S. made a proposal. Iran responded with an unacceptable offer just a day or two before the election. Afterwards, they nominated the Algerians to act as intermediaries. Those valuable discussions went on until literally the day or two before the inauguration, and they were settled by the Iranians caving in on a number of issues that were extremely costly to them. By my calculations, the Iranians ended up paying about $300,000 per hostage per day of incarceration."

The agreement that led to the release, as described by the New York Times 11 days after it occured, revolved around $11 billion to $12 billion in Iranian assets that Carter had frozen 10 days after the seizure of the U.S. embassy. It had been negotiated over the course of several months before Reagan's inauguration.

The Times, in its account of the inauguration, reported that "no one on the speaker's stand knew of the latest developments in Iran. Word quickly spread among the governors, Congressmen and Reagan friends, family and aides as they left the platform."

Carter informed Reagan at 8:31 a.m. that the release of the hostages was imminent, "but the onetime bitter rivals for the presidency told reporters as they entered the speaker's area separately, to the flourish of trumpets, that the hostages had not yet taken off from Tehran. The President got his first chance to announce the news at 2:15 p.m. at a luncheon with Congressional leaders in Statuary Hall in the Capitol."

So Reagan, not Carter, got to bask in the glow of the hostages safe return. However, we contacted seven scholars of the period, and their consensus was that neither Reagan nor his philosophy played any significant role in freeing the hostages.

"Well before Reagan became president, the deal for releasing the hostages had already been worked out by the Carter administration's State Department and the Iranians, ably assisted by Algerian diplomats," said David Farber, a Temple University historian and author of Taken Hostage: The Iranian Hostage Crisis and America's First Encounter with Radical Islam.

"No Reagan administration officials participated in the successful negotiations," Farber added. "The Iranian government waited to officially release the Americans until Carter had left the presidency as a final insult to Carter, whom they despised. They believed Carter had betrayed the Iranian revolution by allowing the self-exiled Shah to receive medical attention in the United States and then had threatened their new government by attempting, unsuccessfully, to use military force in April 1980 to free the hostages."

"By doing this, Iran thought they were showing the world that they could meddle in our affairs, just as we had done to them in 1953," added Dave Houghton, a political scientist at the University of Central Florida and author of U.S. Foreign Policy and the Iran Hostage Crisis. Houghton suggested that Iran had a relatively unsophisticated grasp of U.S. politics, and said he thinks its possible that the Iranians "didnt even know what Reagan had said on the campaign trail."

"I don't think they were scared into the release," Houghton said. "In all likelihood, they released the hostages because they needed the sanctions we'd placed on them lifted so they could finance their war with Iraq."

The one scholar who entertained the possibility that Iran was taking heed of the future presidents philosophy was Michael Gunter, a political scientist at Tennessee Tech University and the author of several papers about the crisis. Still, Gunter added, the "main reason for the release" was that "the mileage the Iranians had gained by holding the hostages had been used for everything it was worth and there was no further advantage in continuing."

Several other experts agreed that the Iranians focus was on Carter, not Reagan.

"If it was related to the occupant of the White House, it certainly had more to do with Carter than Reagan," said Stephen Kinzer, a former New York Times reporter who now teaches at Boston University and authored the book, Reset: Iran, Turkey, and Americas Future. "My guess is that the hostages would have been released even if someone else had been inaugurated -- anyone but Carter. The Iranians had come to hate Carter and didn't want to give him a triumph. Giving it to someone else was fine with them."

Sick, the Columbia University professor, said that "those who wish to believe that the final flurry of activity was out of fear of Reagan have a right to their opinion. Those closer to the events believed that the Iranians, who had clearly decided months earlier that the hostages were a wasting asset, feared that they would have to start the whole laborious process of negotiation over from scratch with a new administration, which obviously had no great appeal."

The Romney campaign did not return an inquiry seeking backup for the candidates claim.

Our ruling

We cant read the Iranians minds, but seven scholars of the period told us that Reagans foreign policy approach was either a minor factor in the release of the hostages or not a factor at all. The fact that the deal was negotiated entirely by the Carter administration, without involvement by Reagan or his transition team, seems to support the expert consensus. Romney made a claim that flies in the face of history and offered no evidence to support it. We rate the statement Pants On Fire.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes I am sure about that. State it anyway you want to, but what it boils down to is you are still off your rocker. I would bet everything I have that we will have a new president in 2016.


Not a fan of Obama but, I'm pretty sure he wont be elected president again in 2farm on it 016. In fact I'm willing to bet the :XD:


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes I am sure about that. State it anyway you want to, but what it boils down to is you are still off your rocker. I would bet everything I have that we will have a new president in 2016.


Not a fan of Obama but, I'm pretty sure he wont be elected president again in 2016. In fact I'm willing to bet the farm on it :XD:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Damemary--Phelps son, according to his obit letter, never was part of his father's vilification of gay people of that church. He made it clear, I thought, that is was a very painful part of his growing up and very divisive in the family. His writing this letter I think was a way of purging himself of that hostile and bigoted energy as well as making a universal apology to all who were hurt by that man.
> 
> Maysmon--this is the crux, in a sense, of this whole discussion, all 59 pages of it. Many people have no clue about what controls them in life. They have been successfully taught to hate and fear anything different. They are taught that the only thing important is obedience and a fear of questioning the dogma preached to them. Puboic education was supported by the nice, white, middle-class liberal women of the mid 19-20c. However, it was only when burgeoning industry needed a working class that could read basic instructions and some who could engineer equipment and, yes, even type that public education was supported. The captains of industry and the church who were paying to house and educate the working girls sucked off family farms no longer wanted to foot the bill. Besides, the way of life had changed significantly, at least in the North, so that girls going to work in factories and city shops was considered a legitimate thing to do. So public education developed in the service of the industries that needed this new, cheap labor.
> 
> ...


You are not very well educated as you slammed the "white" race! Shame on you as I did not read anymore of your trash after your racist remark! Go hide!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You are not very well educated as you slammed the "white" race! Shame on you as I did not read anymore of your trash after your racist remark! Go hide!


There's her first blessing of the day.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque - how does one sell out in Hotel Hanoi? I remember early on that McCain was decent and not exactly pro-war when he was young. He has not aged well. Not sure I agree he was a throw-away candidate. Did anyone ever dream that a bi-racial prez would ever be in the WH? I have to think that McCain was an earnest choice and that the republicans were and are not so smart.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The FACT is that they were released during President Reagan's Inaugural Speech. That is about as shortly after he took office as you can get. Do you really think that it was his administration that did the work?
> When you put this stuff forward while those of us who were alive to see it play out are still around we are here to correct the lies. Yes, lies. That is what you are spreading. Please, either do adequate research or at least stop spreading propaganda that makes the believers of that drivel look like fools.
> 
> I was alive when all that was happening in FACT I was in the US Navy when Carter was President and got a 22% raise when Reagan took over so I didnt have to live at th epoverty level. My mortgage can with 15% interest when Carter was President and I was able to refinance down to 6% 6 months after Reagan took over. All FACTS. I posted a factual article about when the hostages were released. The article said they were released as Reagan was taking his oath. What lies am I spreading?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Hopefully, he'll reincarnate as a worm, lol. His daughter is almost if not as bad, but it looks like she's getting shut out of Westboro Baptist.


Worms are the most important animals to our existence. If they did not churn the soil with their movements, nothing would grow. Hail the Mighty Worm! So we do not wish he will recycle as a worm or any animal. Let us hope he turns into star matter that enters our homes as dust and lands in the house of the most fastidious housekeeper in town.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> Worms are the most important animals to our existence. If they did not churn the soil with their movements, nothing would grow. Hail the Mighty Worm! So we do not wish he will recycle as a worm or any animal. Let us hope he turns into star matter that enters our homes as dust and lands in the house of the most fastidious housekeeper in town.


Personally, I hope he comes back as a roll of toilet paper.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> Not sure what you meant.
> Hostages were taken during Carters administration and released shortly after Reagan took office, Fact.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis


Reagan was not a negotiator; he was a manipulator and that is what happened. You must have missed my post that noted how Reagen/GOP went to the Iranians and made a deal with them to hold the hostages till after the US election. Reagan got elected over Carter's presumed failure for getting the hostages released. It was Carter's efforts that made the release deal. Reagan did some dirty, back room dealing to get Iran to hold off releasing them.

Please do not cite Wikipedia as an authority on anything. They actively prevent much information from being printed there, supporting their strong biases.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

nuclearfinz said:


> Personally, I hope he comes back as a roll of toilet paper.


I have to laugh. That was my first thought but I wanted to be more genteel for the first hour of my day. But I did think I would gladly buy him-even if the jerk came back as single-ply and use him when I had an upset stomach!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > The FACT is that they were released during President Reagan's Inaugural Speech. That is about as shortly after he took office as you can get. Do you really think that it was his administration that did the work?
> ...


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Reagan was not a negotiator; he was a manipulator and that is what happened. You must have missed my post that noted how Reagen/GOP went to the Iranians and made a deal with them to hold the hostages till after the US election. Reagan got elected over Carter's presumed failure for getting the hostages released. It was Carter's efforts that made the release deal. Reagan did some dirty, back room dealing to get Iran to hold off releasing them.
> 
> Please do not cite Wikipedia as an authority on anything. They actively prevent much information from being printed there, supporting their strong biases.


The post hinted as much that negotiations took place long before Reagan took office. Any reasonable intelligent person can figure out that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Reagan was not a negotiator; he was a manipulator and that is what happened. You must have missed my post that noted how Reagen/GOP went to the Iranians and made a deal with them to hold the hostages till after the US election. Reagan got elected over Carter's presumed failure for getting the hostages released. It was Carter's efforts that made the release deal. Reagan did some dirty, back room dealing to get Iran to hold off releasing them.
> 
> Please do not cite Wikipedia as an authority on anything. They actively prevent much information from being printed there, supporting their strong biases.


nuclearfinz hasn't missed anything. nuclearfinz has responded to two of my posts that had the facts right there out in the open. nuclearfinz probably likes the grape drink best.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Here is a non wikipedia artile that backs up the wikipedia article with no mention of "reagan's people asking the Iranians to wait until he took office"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/carter-hostage-crisis/


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> nuclearfinz hasn't missed anything. nuclearfinz has responded to two of my posts that had the facts right there out in the open. nuclearfinz probably likes the grape drink best.


Not much of a koolaide drinker here, but I will support a President that substancially raised my standard of living.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Great question that only PP can answer. but I think she would agree that the President is more of a figure-head and the Prime Minister really has the power. Isn't that the British system? So the President is shoved behind a cloud with no great press coverage.


I suspect there may even be Israelis on KP, who could answer that question better than I can. The President of Israel absolutely is a figurehead. He takes the place in Israel of the Queen of England (though I'm not sure that sentence says what I wanted to say).


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Not much of a koolaide drinker here, but I will support a President that substancially raised my standard of living.


Yes, your pay level is all that matters, who cares if the the man either took part in or allowed the arms trading with the very people you are knocking President Carter for "losing a skirmish" with. 
I like logic. In my book a criminal is a criminal whether he enriched those people who CHOSE to be in the military or not. 
You were choosing to live below the poverty line, right? You joined the military? Did you not know the pay rate when you signed up?
And how, pray tell, did you buy a house if your income was so low?

BTW, I have not decided yet whether to share the site, it is sluggish and long. I did just learn, however, that the military payraises began in FY 1981. That means that Congress implemented those payraises in response to the exit emergency prior to Ronald Reagan being elected. That is the way budgets work. I will do some more investigation, but, if this was indeed passed in 1980 it was Jimmy Carter who signed the appropriations that gave you your raises.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> tamarque - how does one sell out in Hotel Hanoi? I remember early on that McCain was decent and not exactly pro-war when he was young. He has not aged well. Not sure I agree he was a throw-away candidate. Did anyone ever dream that a bi-racial prez would ever be in the WH? I have to think that McCain was an earnest choice and that the republicans were and are not so smart.


By giving information, an assertion that I am loathe to give credence to. Though, who knows what people can and cannot tolerate under torture. 
I, for one, cannot blame anyone for giving up info under torture.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Didnt choose to live at the poverty level, just the way it was. Not any different that people who work low paying jobs like McDonalds. However, the big difference is that my Now husband and I took advantage of the opportunity the Navy gave us and turned it into a good living in the civilian world. And we barely afforded the house and took both of us to pay for it. We were lookng toward the future and knew getting a house was the path to security. There was no money for anything else until we got the pay raise.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, your pay level is all that matters, who cares if the the man either took part in or allowed the arms trading with the very people you are knocking President Carter for "losing a skirmish" with.
> I like logic. In my book a criminal is a criminal whether he enriched those people who CHOSE to be in the military or not.
> You were choosing to live below the poverty line, right? You joined the military? Did you not know the pay rate when you signed up?
> And how, pray tell, did you buy a house if your income was so low?


And you believe the US l isnt selling weapons? Now, who is drinking the kool aide.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> And you believe the US l isnt selling weapons? Now, who is drinking the kool aide.


Not like that, and not to people who held hostage your brothers in arms. Military aid in the form of weapons is what foreign aid is all about. Surely you know that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Didnt choose to live at the poverty level, just the way it was. Not any different that people who work low paying jobs like McDonalds. However, the big difference is that my Now husband and I took advantage of the opportunity the Navy gave us and turned it into a good living in the civilian world. And we barely afforded the house and took both of us to pay for it. We were lookng toward the future and knew getting a house was the path to security. There was no money for anything else until we got the pay raise.


The real point is that you are not telling the truth. Your paycheck may have been poverty level. I don't know. You were not living at the poverty level, however. 
You had two paychecks coming in so unless you were taking advantage of all that free medical care and having LOTS of children you were not living at the poverty level.
You also omitted mention of the 10% pay increase in FY 1980. 
You seem to have a real problem with facts, nuclearfinz.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Posted some thoughts about one of the members who always says she is 'not going to read your posts as you are a liar' or 'evil, or 'not an American so mind your own business. and on and on. She posts then leaves - so not worth the trouble.

I have posted some thoughts previously and they haven't changed but I am not going to get my knickers in a knot about her any more.
-------------------------------
Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that 
there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that 
there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.

Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The real point is that you are not telling the truth. Your paycheck may have been poverty level. I don't know. You were not living at the poverty level, however.
> You had two paychecks coming in so unless you were taking advantage of all that free medical care and having LOTS of children you were not living at the poverty level.
> You also omitted mention of the 10% pay increase in FY 1980.
> You seem to have a real problem with facts, nuclearfinz.


Nope you do, I mentioned a 22% pay raise coupled with going from double digit interest rate to single digit interest rate dramatically improved my standard of living and that of everyone Military or otherwise around me


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Nuclearfinz

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/09/13/fox-distorts-reagans-record-on-iranian-hostage/189871
This article is a lot more balanced than even PBS which I look at with crossed eyes.

Now you truly are missing the point, intentionally or not. Irangate was as illegal and treasonous a back door projcet as there ever was one.

Under Clinton we had the lowest unemployment rate in many years. So why are your not waving his flag? He practically destroyed Social Services in order to pander to reactionary, anti-public pressure. He certainly caved on health care because the Dems have a hard time taking strong stands and holding the line.

The GOP, contrarily, support the Goebels line "Tell the lie, and tell it often enough till people believe it." No facts ever need get in the way. And that is how I read so much of this forum. No balance; no critique of forces operating; no look at the political tendencies and how they develop.

And no, I see little real information from you or back up of what you offer. I am finding your posts twisting all over the place in order to avoid information presented.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that
> there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.
> 
> Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


Whoa there Nelly....Are you now doing what others that you criticize are doing, twisting information? I never said anything about Jewish people. I will criticize the State of Isreal for its apartheid treatment of a significant portion of the people who live there. It is true, I do think the State of Isreal is as evil as the US. Being smaller with more localized colonialist goals, it is not as evil as the US in the world. In poll after poll around the world, when asked, the US is listed as the worst terrorist. So there is a difference betw these 2 countries, but only in scale. But please don't pull this anti-semetic attack on me. Isreal is a country with a govt that is subject to criticism just as any other. I am not going to be held hostage to their rhetoric. I have no guilt for them to manipulate.

I will challenge your politics here, though. Why do you subscribe to a progressive politic here in the US but promote a defensive, reactionary one regarding Isreal. I probably follow the politics of that region much more closely than most, including people who happen to be Jewish. I read the progressive, independent voices of that region in the same way I look to them here and elsewhere. That country has come under the control of right wing, fundamentalist, racist segments. Most of the people there are like those in the US--apathetic, unconcerned, willing to be manipulated by false fears. You have a govt that is a master at lying and maneuvering, but mainly playing on a historical guilt which has long since petered out. That is why more and more, and larger and larger institutions are supporting the BDS movement. tew


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that
> there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.
> 
> Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


Whoa there Nelly....Are you now doing what others that you criticize are doing, twisting information? I never said anything about Jewish people. I will criticize the State of Isreal for its apartheid treatment of a significant portion of the people who live there. It is true, I do think the State of Isreal is as evil as the US. Being smaller with more localized colonialist goals, it is not as evil as the US in the world. In poll after poll around the world, when asked, the US is listed as the worst terrorist. So there is a difference betw these 2 countries, but only in scale. But please don't pull this anti-semetic attack on me. Isreal is a country with a govt that is subject to criticism just as any other. I am not going to be held hostage to their rhetoric. I have no guilt for them to manipulate.

I will challenge your politics here, though. Why do you subscribe to a progressive politic here in the US but promote a defensive, reactionary one regarding Isreal. I probably follow the politics of that region much more closely than most, including people who happen to be Jewish. I read the progressive, independent voices of that region in the same way I look to them here and elsewhere. That country has come under the control of right wing, fundamentalist, racist segments. Most of the people there are like those in the US--apathetic, unconcerned, willing to be manipulated by false fears. You have a govt that is a master at lying and maneuvering, but mainly playing on a historical guilt which has long since petered out. That is why more and more, and larger and larger institutions are supporting the BDS movement.

I must say that Isreal receives $3 billion/year for military aid. The US has supported a major nuclear armament program in Isreal despite the fact that country has refused to sign a nuclear armament treaty or let its facilities be inspected. Personally, this is politically odious and hypocritical. Isreal dropped White Phosphorous on Palestinians yet managed to avoid the hoopla heaped on Syria for allegedly using chemical weaponry--a charge having proven false but not corrected in US media. So, sorry if I have stepped on a political sore point with you, but there is no apology to make for my position on this racist state. And I do attack the US critically constantly, which I think you know.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > The FACT is that they were released during President Reagan's Inaugural Speech. That is about as shortly after he took office as you can get. Do you really think that it was his administration that did the work?
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"Why do you subscribe to a progressive politic here in the US but promote a defensive, reactionary one regarding Isreal."

Simple answer - I am Jewish and I know that Jews cannot count on any nation but their own. So if this country should ever turn on us, we feel we have some security in Israel. I think you need to be Jewish to understand that this is not a matter of politics but a matter of the heart and safety. Just like, as Americans, we accept the blemishes of the US by living here, Jews will accept the blemishes of Israel because who else will help us when the inevitable occurs again?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> "Why do you subscribe to a progressive politic here in the US but promote a defensive, reactionary one regarding Isreal."
> 
> Simple answer - I am Jewish and I know that Jews cannot count on any nation but their own. So if this country should ever turn on us, we feel we have some security in Israel. I think you need to be Jewish to understand that this is not a matter of politics but a matter of the heart and safety. Just like, as Americans, we accept the blemishes of the US by living here, Jews will accept the blemishes of Israel because who else will help us when the inevitable occurs again?


That is really funny considering the money and other support we have given Israel all these years. Why do you think any liberals have, in past decades, been involved in the resolution of middle east issues?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

The liberals are using Israel as their best base in the middle east - not for any love of Jewish people. The resolution will probably go against Israel as we get more desperate for oil.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Nuclearfinz
> 
> http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/09/13/fox-distorts-reagans-record-on-iranian-hostage/189871
> This article is a lot more balanced than even PBS which I look at with crossed eyes.
> ...


Clinton did a great job. He inherited a deficit and turned ito a surplus. Did you hear him blame all his problems on the previous administration? Nope, just rolled his sleeves up and went to work. As for health care, he let his wife get involved and she along with the committee put together a complex plan and administrative burden to doctors, it deserved to be DOA. My biggest objection to Obamacare is congress voted it in without reading it. It forces people who didnt want health care to buy it. It assumed that healthy people would rush to sign up to. Granted, congress is so divided right now, not just on this subject but pretty much on every issue that comes before them. Both parties are at fault here. Currently it has become a bad thing to be a moderate politician. Compromise is an ugly word to both parties. Congress does what it does not to help people but how best it serves them politically. You want to talk about illegal actions, bad enough this country sold weapons to a drug cartel but those same weapons killed an American Border agent. the previous attorney general called 26 million Americans potential terrorists just because we served in the military. ( OK , not illegal but just as heinous). Clinton herself didnt see why it was important to figure out why Benghzi occurred.(famous quote, "what difference does it make") It made a lot of difference, most certainly on how America would respond. The Moderates are getting out office and leaving behind , rigid thinking people who either want to throw the bible at you or spend us out of existance.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> nucleafinz
> Oh yes sales of weapons under dark cover - remember Ollie North one of Reagan's Buddies? Now that was a Scandal and no punishment.
> As to spreading lies = you have quite an arsenal of those.


What lie have I been spreading? 
Fact , I did receive a 22% pay raise under the Reagan administration. I posted two stories that both said negotiations for the Iranian hostages began long before Reagan took office. I did not allude to Reagan's people telling Iran to hold off of releasing the hostages until he was elected because no one hs posted any evidence to substantiate this. What I surmise for several posts here is: Its wasnt ok to secretly engage in the Iran Contra scandal. But it is OK to sell weapons to Drug cartels. ( Fast and Furious).


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> The liberals are using Israel as their best base in the middle east - not for any love of Jewish people. The resolution will probably go against Israel as we get more desperate for oil.


OK


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> What lie have I been spreading?
> Fact , I did receive a 22% pay raise under the Reagan administration. I posted two stories that both said negotiations for the Iranian hostages began long before Reagan took office. I did not allude to Reagan's people telling Iran to hold off of releasing the hostages until he was elected because no one hs posted any evidence to substantiate this. What I surmise for several posts here is: Its wasnt ok to secretly engage in the Iran Contra scandal. But it is OK to sell weapons to Drug cartels. ( Fast and Furious).


I don't know of anyone on this site who has said that it is OK to sell weapons through Fast and Furious. 
What does that have to do with the fiction you are putting forward about the transition from the Carter Administration to the Reagan White House?
You are trying to pretend that the pay rate increases did not begin under President Carter. Two years of hefty increases were signed into the budget by Jimmy Carter , giving President Reagan credit for that is disingenuous at best.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I don't know of anyone on this site who has said that it is OK to sell weapons through Fast and Furious.
> What does that have to do with the fiction you are putting forward about the transition from the Carter Administration to the Reagan White House?
> You are trying to pretend that the pay rate increases did not begin under President Carter. Two years of hefty increases were signed into the budget by Jimmy Carter , giving President Reagan credit for that is disingenuous at best.


First pay raise occurred in 1982. two years after reagan took office.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> First pay raise occurred in 1982. two years after reagan took office.


Nope, sorry. You are wrong. Maybe your first pay raise took place then because you were not in the military before that. However, there was a good piece of change paid out in 1980.
And now I am done playing, outside of maybe posting the pay raises when I am at my computer, this is boring.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nope, sorry. You are wrong. Maybe your first pay raise took place then because you were not in the military before that. However, there was a good piece of change paid out in 1980.


Nope joined in Jan 1979


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Apropos of nothing on this thread, but since it is popular, I chose it for all to read the following link:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/health/brain-crafting-benefits/index.html?hpt=hp_bn13


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Apropos of nothing on this thread, but since it is popular, I chose it for all to read the following link:
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/health/brain-crafting-benefits/index.html?hpt=hp_bn13


I think it is becoming less popular by the minute, regardless of that, thank you.


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## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I already posted on FB about that. I don't even think it's right for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill for Mrs O to have a separate vacation period. They have plenty of $$$ so they either pay for Air Force One themselves AND food and lodging or else don't go! We just paid for the whole family to vacation in Hawaii for some weeks, and if I remember correctly, Mrs O stayed in Hawaii for a while after the president went home. Now, I'm sure Air Force One had to go back again to pick her up. I think her mother was with them then too. It's not right that us taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this. I know, sometimes I can't afford to go on a vacation, but still WE are paying for others. Not fair and I totally disagree with this. Does the mother pay some kind of room and board for living in the White House?? I bet she has all the amenities to---like maid service and room service, meals, laundry, etc. this is one of the reasons this country is in such a fix financially.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> Apropos of nothing on this thread, but since it is popular, I chose it for all to read the following link:
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/health/brain-crafting-benefits/index.html?hpt=hp_bn13


A young girl came by my friend's booth at the NH sheep and wool festival with a service dog. She had PTSD and anxiety problems. Her therapist advised her to learn a craft. She choose drop spindles. SHe had bought one from a different vendor but the vendor didnt help her with it. I had watched my friend teach someone how to use it. i am proficient but not much of a teacher but I gave it a try. The look that came across this girls face once she grasped the mechanics of drop spindling is one I wont forget. its pretty cool that there is an study done to backup what we have known all along.


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## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't know what drop spindling is, but would like to find out more about it.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> I already posted on FB about that. I don't even think it's right for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill for Mrs O to have a separate vacation period. They have plenty of $$$ so they either pay for Air Force One themselves AND food and lodging or else don't go! We just paid for the whole family to vacation in Hawaii for some weeks, and if I remember correctly, Mrs O stayed in Hawaii for a while after the president went home. Now, I'm sure Air Force One had to go back again to pick her up. I think her mother was with them then too. It's not right that us taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this. I know, sometimes I can't afford to go on a vacation, but still WE are paying for others. Not fair and I totally disagree with this. Does the mother pay some kind of room and board for living in the White House?? I bet she has all the amenities to---like maid service and room service, meals, laundry, etc. this is one of the reasons this country is in such a fix financially.


I believe she does pay for her and her mother and the girls. We pay for the secret service. Thats the way it is. I believe previous posters have said the mother actually assists with the daughters rather than a professional nanny. From a mother's view point, I get it, it makes sense to have a family member do this other than a stranger.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> I don't know what drop spindling is, but would like to find out more about it.


you make yarn with it.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think it is becoming less popular by the minute, regardless of that, thank you.


Of this we both agree


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

my2blkcats said:


> I already posted on FB about that. I don't even think it's right for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill for Mrs O to have a separate vacation period. They have plenty of $$$ so they either pay for Air Force One themselves AND food and lodging or else don't go! We just paid for the whole family to vacation in Hawaii for some weeks, and if I remember correctly, Mrs O stayed in Hawaii for a while after the president went home. Now, I'm sure Air Force One had to go back again to pick her up. I think her mother was with them then too. It's not right that us taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this. I know, sometimes I can't afford to go on a vacation, but still WE are paying for others. Not fair and I totally disagree with this. Does the mother pay some kind of room and board for living in the White House?? I bet she has all the amenities to---like maid service and room service, meals, laundry, etc. this is one of the reasons this country is in such a fix financially.


It is not a vacation. It is a trip on behalf of the State Dept. maybe you should call the Dept. of Labor and report them for making the girls work.
Do you think that the WH is a hotel? Maid service? Jaysus. Are you even from the US? You seem to lack basic knowledge of life here.
Just guessing, but if you can't afford a vacation are you even paying taxes?


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## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

But when does the Nanny get luxurious digs and amenities, including food, maid service, etc thrown in with the jobs. When was the last time you took your 'employee' on a trip to China or Hawaii??? I don't believe one cent of this trip was paid for by anyone except us taxpayers. People just keep drinking the Obama KoolAid.....drop by drop.........


----------



## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

Why does a mother of two quite grown children need help taking care of them. Especially when they're with the mother? It's not like she's off working somewhere, she's WITH THEM ON VACATION!!!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

my2blkcats said:


> But when does the Nanny get luxurious digs and amenities, including food, maid service, etc thrown in with the jobs. When was the last time you took your 'employee' on a trip to China or Hawaii??? I don't believe one cent of this trip was paid for by anyone except us taxpayers. People just keep drinking the Obama KoolAid.....drop by drop.........


You sound like you moved to MA from Seabrook.


----------



## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I agree with Junes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that
> there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.
> 
> Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


I beg to differ. I understand the horrific torture Jews have had to endure, and I love many Jews, perhaps for their progressive outlook. In any mediation, no one gets to win it all at the expense of the other side. There is only so much land available in the Middle East. IMHO it must be shared somehow between Jews and Palestinians.

Sorry. I do not mean to offend.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> But when does the Nanny get luxurious digs and amenities, including food, maid service, etc thrown in with the jobs. When was the last time you took your 'employee' on a trip to China or Hawaii??? I don't believe one cent of this trip was paid for by anyone except us taxpayers. People just keep drinking the Obama KoolAid.....drop by drop.........


No I dont drink his kool aid. I know Janet Cooke will agree with this but.... Really, she is paying for the mother to go along with the daughters, even if it is a soft public relations tour. We may be paying for her to go and maybe the hotel that was originally rejected for Biden because of the cost, probably a poor choice. Take issue with the person who made to decision to stay there.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

my2blkcats said:


> Why does a mother of two quite grown children need help taking care of them. Especially when they're with the mother? It's not like she's off working somewhere, she's WITH THEM ON VACATION!!!!


They are grown? Really your hatred is clouding your judgement. I can feel your hatred through the screen. Please take a moment and compose yourself and think about what your saying and getting so worked up about


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I beg to differ. I understand the horrific torture Jews have had to endure, and I love many Jews, perhaps for their progressive outlook. In any mediation, no one gets to win it all at the expense of the other side. There is only so much land available in the Middle East. IMHO it must be shared somehow between Jews and Palestinians.
> 
> Sorry. I do not mean to offend.


My exact thoughts too but only if Israel maintains defensible borders. Her enemies are far reaching.


----------



## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

Who voted on this Texas A & M study? A bunch of college kids being supported by their parents and God only knows what they were smoking at the time. Come on!!!!!


----------



## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I so think people in Canada don't know the half of it. Come live in the lower 48 and experience for yourself what our citizens are going through. Walk a mile in our shoes before you comment.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cialea said:


> They are grown? Really your hatred is clouding your judgement. I can feel your hatred through the screen. Please take a moment and compose yourself and think about what your saying and getting so worked up about


It just shows great parenting skills, doesn't it?
Apparently, that person would take her children to a foreign nation and leave them in the care of a bunch of men nobody really knows.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> Why does a mother of two quite grown children need help taking care of them. Especially when they're with the mother? It's not like she's off working somewhere, she's WITH THEM ON VACATION!!!!


They are teens and seem to be well mannered probably because they have their grandmother. Yea, I wish I could afford a lavish vacation too. I live in MA and with the universal healthcare I have had to pay for others to get a better healthcare plan than I have.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

my2blkcats said:


> I so think people in Canada don't know the half of it. Come live in the lower 48 and experience for yourself what our citizens are going through. Walk a mile in our shoes before you comment.


More Hate speaking


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You sound like you moved to MA from Seabrook.


Whats wrong with Seabrook? :?:


----------



## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm leaving.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cialea said:


> More Hate speaking


No kidding, like we have it so bad. Sheesh. Some people should spend time in difficult circumstances.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

my2blkcats said:


> Who voted on this Texas A & M study? A bunch of college kids being supported by their parents and God only knows what they were smoking at the time. Come on!!!!!


And more hate... Do you keyhole everyone into a framework to suit your hate? How would you like to be thought of in a context of how you are throwing insults in every direction possible.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

my2blkcats said:


> I'm leaving.


I do hope it's to find a pill for your nerves


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

nuclearfinz said:


> Whats wrong with Seabrook? :?:


Oh Jeez


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

cialea said:


> Oh Jeez


really, curious is all.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

nuclearfinz said:


> really, curious is all.


I don't get the Seabrook reference either.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> No I dont drink his kool aid. I know Janet Cooke will agree with this but.... Really, she is paying for the mother to go along with the daughters, even if it is a soft public relations tour. We may be paying for her to go and maybe the hotel that was originally rejected for Biden because of the cost, probably a poor choice. Take issue with the person who made to decision to stay there.


Yes, they should have stayed at a Motel 6, WTH is wrong with you people? You pretend that you are concerned about our standing in a global society and then you want to farm our First Family out to sleep in the fields when they travel in our name.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

I don't either to tell the truth... Just sounded like you were upset & I figured it was some type of bashing...I admit that some of these comments don't exactly make the best come out in me & think that might be where some of us are right now. But how thankful are you that we can say how we feel about a subject weather we are right or wrong... I for one am very thankful. Saddened at times but thankful.



nuclearfinz said:


> really, curious is all.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Whats wrong with Seabrook? :?:


Where does my statement say that there is something wrong with Seabrook?


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, they should have stayed at a Motel 6, WTH is wrong with you people? You pretend that you are concerned about our standing in a global society and then you want to farm our First Family out to sleep in the fields when they travel in our name.


Nope, The hotel was originally rejected for its cost when Biden was there. But surely there were more economical choices that were appropriate.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Nope, The hotel was originally rejected for its cost when Biden was there. But surely there were more economical choices that were appropriate.


So now we are going to speculate about the cost of a suite? 
You can, I think ...


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

You questioned whether my2blkcatsn had come to MA from Seabrook after her post about Michelle Obama and the China trip. Was curious as to what is wrong with Seabrook.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So now we are going to speculate about the cost of a suite?
> You can, I think ...


No. not really. The poster was upset about paying for everything. the media has made a big deal about the cost of the suite and I am just curious as to what the reference to Seabrook was all about. I know people who work there.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> You questioned whether my2blkcatsn had come to MA from Seabrook after her post about Michelle Obama and the China trip. Was curious as to what is wrong with Seabrook.


I didn't question anything. I said it sounded like she had moved from right across the border, Seabrook to Salisbury. 
No question, a statement was made.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I didn't question anything. I said it sounded like she had moved from right across the border, Seabrook to Salisbury.
> No question, a statement was made.


Oh , OK


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

my2blkcats
you seem to be one of the mothers who lets her children do as they like at an early age without any supervision. Poor Parenthood. I applaud the First Lady and the President to take care of their children so carefully. Tough enough to be in the limelight but tougher yet to be shielded from the Haters.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cialea said:


> I don't either to tell the truth... Just sounded like you were upset & I figured it was some type of bashing...I admit that some of these comments don't exactly make the best come out in me & think that might be where some of us are right now. But how thankful are you that we can say how we feel about a subject weather we are right or wrong... I for one am very thankful. Saddened at times but thankful.


It is not bashing at all, just a demographic shift. People from Mass moved to Seabrook because the nuclear plant did so much for the town that they liked the amenities. In response to the shift in politics and rise in housing costs people moved south of the NH border, close to home and affordable.


----------



## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on." 

In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, they should have stayed at a Motel 6, WTH is wrong with you people? You pretend that you are concerned about our standing in a global society and then you want to farm our First Family out to sleep in the fields when they travel in our name.


 :thumbup:


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come rolling in.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


And there we have the real life example of the old saying "a fool and his money are soon parted."


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is not bashing at all, just a demographic shift. People from Mass moved to Seabrook because the nuclear plant did so much for the town that they liked the amenities. In response to the shift in politics and rise in housing costs people moved south of the NH border, close to home and affordable.


Ok... Thanks for clearing that up

;-)


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I'm waiting for someone to start the dirge for Fred Phelps.


I think his son has already made the appropriate response to him and I don't feel he needs any more air time. Glad he is gone.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So, anyway, until I got in front of my honest to goodness, powered by Windows 7 OS, computer I couldn't figure out how to get these up.

Here are the military pay scales for anyone to see. We all know how the federal system works, we are halfway through the federal fiscal year which begins on October 1st. The budget is set before or after at times and that may have been one of those times. 
But anyone can clearly see that there were large jumps in pay rates prior to President Reagan taking office.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> Not sure what you meant.
> Hostages were taken during Carters administration and released shortly after Reagan took office, Fact.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis


They were released as President Reagan was being sworn in, because of negotiations prior to their release. He had nothing to do with it.

The 52 Americans were freed as part of a complex agreement that was not completed until early morning of 1/20/81, when the last snags holding up their release were removed by Mr. Carter and his aides, in the final diplomatic action of their Administration.

Under the terms of the accord, as the Algerian plane left Iranian air space, nearly $3 billion of Iranian assets that had been frozen by the United States were returned to Iran, and many more billions of dollars were made available for Iranian repayment of debts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Uncalled for. IMO our international friends are most welcome to express their views. Stop and listen and you may learn something.



my2blkcats said:


> I so think people in Canada don't know the half of it. Come live in the lower 48 and experience for yourself what our citizens are going through. Walk a mile in our shoes before you comment.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> But when does the Nanny get luxurious digs and amenities, including food, maid service, etc thrown in with the jobs. When was the last time you took your 'employee' on a trip to China or Hawaii??? I don't believe one cent of this trip was paid for by anyone except us taxpayers. People just keep drinking the Obama KoolAid.....drop by drop.........


This is exactly the problem your response creates. You have a clear bias and look to point a nasty finger at the Obamas. And it is all conjecture which has no basis. No matter what others point out this thinking wants to hold fast. For what purpose? What do you get out of it? Justifying your hatred of Obama's being Black and being your President? And given all the notes about how typical his behavior is for a president, you singularly attacking him makes your comment dishonest and disreputable.

I think this country has many problems. It is a top down, oligarchy pushing for totalitarian control, militarization of the country despite the Constitutional ban on that, and impoverishment of the public by intent. If you want to discuss this political predicament that we all share, fine. If you want to look for an argument about Obama as a unique person, forget it.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

sorry, this was a double post which cannot be completely removed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Imagine what the Motel 6 equivalent in China would offer. There is also the matter of security.



Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, they should have stayed at a Motel 6, WTH is wrong with you people? You pretend that you are concerned about our standing in a global society and then you want to farm our First Family out to sleep in the fields when they travel in our name.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> This is exactly the problem your response creates. You have a clear bias and look to point a nasty finger at the Obamas. And it is all conjecture which has no basis. No matter what others point out this thinking wants to hold fast. For what purpose? What do you get out of it? Justifying your hatred of Obama's being Black and being your President? And given all the notes about how typical his behavior is for a president, you singularly attacking him makes your comment dishonest and disreputable.
> 
> I think this country has many problems. It is a top down, oligarchy pushing for totalitarian control, militarization of the country despite the Constitutional ban on that, and impoverishment of the public by intent. If you want to discuss this political predicament that we all share, fine. If you want to look for an argument about Obama as a unique person, forget it.


And if a certain someone knew anything about the way the rich travel, they would know that the multiple nannies get "digs" that are better than most of us would dream of in our ordinary living circumstances. 
People with lots of money have a staff of caregivers, those people don't work at the family's beck and call as a grandparent does. The staff has regular hours and has scheduled time off. If they are live in staff they have nice surroundings and use of common areas of the house at specified times.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

It seems to me the question is why the need for such heavy security. Many other countries travel their leaders without such heavy personnel accompanying them. If this country wasn't the biggest bully on the block (read terrorist), much of this expense would be unnecessary. 

Of course there is the appearance of power and affluence that is being sold. It is designed to impress, and more so, to intimidate. But all traveling political sales people are the same.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> I already posted on FB about that. I don't even think it's right for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill for Mrs O to have a separate vacation period. They have plenty of $$$ so they either pay for Air Force One themselves AND food and lodging or else don't go! We just paid for the whole family to vacation in Hawaii for some weeks, and if I remember correctly, Mrs O stayed in Hawaii for a while after the president went home. Now, I'm sure Air Force One had to go back again to pick her up. I think her mother was with them then too. It's not right that us taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this. I know, sometimes I can't afford to go on a vacation, but still WE are paying for others. Not fair and I totally disagree with this. Does the mother pay some kind of room and board for living in the White House?? I bet she has all the amenities to---like maid service and room service, meals, laundry, etc. this is one of the reasons this country is in such a fix financially.


So have you spent any time to investigate who pays what or are we just to assume that because you give your opinion as to how it is done, that that is the way that it is actually done? Have you investigated how it was done under the Bush administration? Laura Bush took 5 trips to Africa. How were those paid for? The Bush daughters took a trip for spring break. Have you investigated how that was paid for? 
Compared to the subsidies paid to big oil companies and other big companies paying no taxes at all, I doubt the few things Mrs. Robinson receives, if any, are causing this country to be in a "financial fix." I have read that Mrs. Robinson likes to do a lot for herself, including cooking, because that is what she is use to. I have also heard the the Obama girls make their own bed. That should make you happy. Did the Bush girls make their own bed? Don't believe I ever heard that about them. I think you need to do some research, or maybe just chill.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

damemary said:


> Uncalled for. IMO our international friends are most welcome to express their views. Stop and listen and you may learn something.


Our international friends often have a much better perspective on what is happening as they too often are the recipient of American adventures. I once talked with a Canadian woman who said she was fed up with the newspeak of Canadian media--that is until she came here and realized that it was even worse than Canada. I think that is true in most of the Western countries and even some of the undeveloped ones.
Personally, I discuss politics with people in Canada and the UK fairly regularly and they are very aware people.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> But when does the Nanny get luxurious digs and amenities, including food, maid service, etc thrown in with the jobs. When was the last time you took your 'employee' on a trip to China or Hawaii??? I don't believe one cent of this trip was paid for by anyone except us taxpayers. People just keep drinking the Obama KoolAid.....drop by drop.........


And you just keep repeating your opinions as truth. Talk about drinking the kool aid. You are bathing in it, the right wing kool aid that is.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are not very well educated as you slammed the "white" race! Shame on you as I did not read anymore of your trash after your racist remark! Go hide!


Jane, are you sure you aren't KFN in mufti??!! (All those exclamation points, oy vey!!!)


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


Well first you ensure the people are not critical thinkers and are emotional flag wavers. Then you create some emotional image based on self-righteousness and morality, whipping up a frenzy worthy of the best tent revival meeting. Of course the emotional fervor is used to cover the emptiness of the message and asks people to support positions against their own interest. Finally, you buy up all the media to broadcast your empty message but creating divisiveness and hatred.

And given the racist basis of this country all that is needed is the meerest suggestion that some people of color might be getting some assistance and the flag wavers are off and running. Of course this isn't racist; it is just that all people of color are unworthy of a seat at the table and all will be done to prevent that. Nobody will notice that all the nice white working people can't sit at that table either, but will most likely be sharing the same bench seeking their own benefits.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So, anyway, until I got in front of my honest to goodness, powered by Windows 7 OS, computer I couldn't figure out how to get these up.
> 
> Here are the military pay scales for anyone to see. We all know how the federal system works, we are halfway through the federal fiscal year which begins on October 1st. The budget is set before or after at times and that may have been one of those times.
> But anyone can clearly see that there were large jumps in pay rates prior to President Reagan taking office.
> ...


It is now Obama that is promoting a pay raise again for military and the public. Not much IMHO but the first in many years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This President and his family have been threatened more than usual, I'd say.



tamarque said:


> It seems to me the question is why the need for such heavy security. Many other countries travel their leaders without such heavy personnel accompanying them. If this country wasn't the biggest bully on the block (read terrorist), much of this expense would be unnecessary.
> 
> Of course there is the appearance of power and affluence that is being sold. It is designed to impress, and more so, to intimidate. But all traveling political sales people are the same.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agree 100%. I am insulted by remarks from Americans telling them they have no right to speak.



tamarque said:


> Our international friends often have a much better perspective on what is happening as they too often are the recipient of American adventures. I once talked with a Canadian woman who said she was fed up with the newspeak of Canadian media--that is until she came here and realized that it was even worse than Canada. I think that is true in most of the Western countries and even some of the undeveloped ones.
> Personally, I discuss politics with people in Canada and the UK fairly regularly and they are very aware people.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> I'm leaving.


Au reservoir--


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Imagine what the Motel 6 equivalent in China would offer. There is also the matter of security.


Yup--"We'll leave the flashlight on for ya--"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Yup--"We'll leave the flashlight on for ya--"


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> Why does a mother of two quite grown children need help taking care of them. Especially when they're with the mother? It's not like she's off working somewhere, she's WITH THEM ON VACATION!!!!


She is also doing things with the Chinese people and Chinese children. Would you do something in China and leave your daughters to fend for themselves. What is wrong with you? Why so much hate for a woman and her daughters. Dislike President Obama's policies if you want. I disliked the Bush policies, but I didn't hate Laura and their daughters. She is there on behalf of the US, so she does things when they may not be right with her. They then have their grandmother to rely on. Being in China would not be like walking down the street in the USA. You can go to whitehouse.gov if you are really interested on finding out what they are doing, or if you wish to continue to spread lies, you can do that too.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> my2blkcats
> you seem to be one of the mothers who lets her children do as they like at an early age without any supervision. Poor Parenthood. I applaud the First Lady and the President to take care of their children so carefully. Tough enough to be in the limelight but tougher yet to be shielded from the Haters.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> It seems to me the question is why the need for such heavy security. Many other countries travel their leaders without such heavy personnel accompanying them. If this country wasn't the biggest bully on the block (read terrorist), much of this expense would be unnecessary.
> 
> Of course there is the appearance of power and affluence that is being sold. It is designed to impress, and more so, to intimidate. But all traveling political sales people are the same.


Are you too young to remember the assassination of Kennedy and the attempts on Reagan and the pope? These incidents are what started the heavy security presence.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


Absolutely, put that info on Fox News and the gullible will hear it and believe everything Fox says. They don't question anything.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cialea said:


> And more hate... Do you keyhole everyone into a framework to suit your hate? How would you like to be thought of in a context of how you are throwing insults in every direction possible.


Why are you the police of her opinion? Sounds as if you are the only "right" one! Oh, my are you a Republican?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So, anyway, until I got in front of my honest to goodness, powered by Windows 7 OS, computer I couldn't figure out how to get these up.
> 
> Here are the military pay scales for anyone to see. We all know how the federal system works, we are halfway through the federal fiscal year which begins on October 1st. The budget is set before or after at times and that may have been one of those times.
> But anyone can clearly see that there were large jumps in pay rates prior to President Reagan taking office.
> ...


Thank you President Carter.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Jane, are you sure you aren't KFN in mufti??!! (All those exclamation points, oy vey!!!)


Well, if you are "Maysmom" you sure resemble a man in your Avatar!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Yup--"We'll leave the flashlight on for ya--"


What is wrong with a Motel 6? A lot of people stay at this motel as I'm sure you have too!

White people, Jews, & motels have been slammed by you good old Lefties, y'all are drinking Hard Ice Tea!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Irish knitter said:


> why do the girls have to go along? If it is a state trip?


Well, duh! and double duh! Lara Bush brought her daughters with her on trips and so have others. geesh. If you need details call the White House. We don't make the rules, here.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: I don't understand your point.





Irish knitter wrote:
He is only half black....[/quote said:


> I don't understand it either.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SQM said:


> Maybe she is waiting for the South to rise again.


Same thing I was thinking. ugh.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

loravaughn said:


> Finally someone speaks the reality and not the fantasy!


hmmm, wasn't Clinton our first "black" President? heh-heh.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm missing something here. Perhaps someone can explain the significance of President Obama being "half-black." Thank you.


Some strange picky word game.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

nitnana said:


> 23 pages so far - oh, my! I missed some of the comments but President Obama's mother was white - his father black - hence, I believe someone must have said he was 1/2 black (1/2 white, too!) And I don't believe the Govt. is paying for the grandmother's travel expenses. Maybe the family is paying for all of it! We should check before we criticize! I have more trouble with those "junkets" Congressmen take to foreign countries to "supposedly" check into the schools, businesses, etc,. and just go touring! Those ARE paid by the Govt.!!! This President can do nothing right. If he golfs, he gets criticized- other Presidents golfed much more - no disapproval! Nuff said -


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Ahirsch601 said:


> Too many Fox News viewers!


 :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Uncalled for. IMO our international friends are most welcome to express their views. Stop and listen and you may learn something.


I thank you damemary -- I would not want to walk a mile in her shoes. I am quite content to be a Canadian. Always have been and always will be. However, I am really interested in US Politics, what is happening there, how it affects my country and also the fact that I have many many friends there on both sides of the Political spectrum. I don't hide my beliefs - and never have.

We 'foreigners' have every right to post on these threads. They are open forums, not managed sites where you can delete those whose posts you don't want.

His wife has spent a lot of time urging improvements in schooling - yet i have seen on one of the other threads where someone was repeating a Politician who called her a 'sl-t - and it was repeated and implied agreement. From what i have seen she is a class act. I also think they have a Happy marriage and a wonderful family - but I have never seen anyone give them credit for that.

The fact that Americans call their President the names that they call him - amazes me. They ridicule him and lie about him. just my opinion. He is called BOZO, OBO , everything but his name. It used to be a fact that an American respected the office-- not a case any longer.

The have managed to reduce the Office of President of the United States - and it is a shame.

Many People up here have admired the fact that Americans were so Patriotic. One of the Most openly Patriotic people in the world. A lot of people around the world don't feel that way now with the dreadful things that are going on . When you are on a certain road - you think you can change back -- hard to do. The world is watching what is going on there and the world is able to read the same things, watch Fox and CNN and MSNBC - They listen to someone like Limbaugh and Beck and wonder, like most of us do - how can people believe that drivel? I believe that they have reasons and feelings they won't acknowledge - but it seems clear to a lot of people where those feelings originated.

Anyway, I will drop by when I have the urge and I hope other people from Canada and other countries will not allow themselves to be driven away.
===========
We received another huge snow fall a couple of days ago- although my bil from Vancouver Island says the blossoms are opening on the Island - and even though it is raining it is a 'soft rain' My feeling is that you don't have to shovel it so a move might be in the works for us.

I hope that many more people are found alive in that dreadful mud slide in Northern Washington State - many many are missing. I have heard from a relative in BC that some of the people there are going down to help in every way they can. That is par for the course. We are neighbors and we care about each other. YOur firefighters have come up to help us when there were huge firest in our forests. Canadians went down to NJ when hurricane Sandy hurt that area so much. That is what neighbors do. I am glad I live beside a country like the US - our borders are nearly completely open - after 9/11 it changed a bit with good reason. However we cover each other's backs . So don't tell me I should not care about what is going on down there. I do care, and I worry about what is happening. That is my right too- and it is my right to post anywhere on KP -

Google - Gander Newfoundland and 9/11 I doubt that those on the Right have ever even thought about both countries have done for the other in support when things were bad. It works across the border both ways.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
> I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


As your comments reek.

Now, there's no question that he plays on a regular basis: 104 rounds from January 2009 through Aug. 4 of this year, the last time he played, according to Mark Knoller, the longtime White House correspondent for CBS Radio. That puts him about in the middle when compared with other duffers-in-chief. It's less than Bill Clinton, and a lot less than Dwight Eisenhower, who played more than 800 rounds over eight years  four times as often as Obama plays.

And why is it an outrage if the president, who heads one of three branches of government, golfs 104 times in three-and-a-half-years, but the head of another branch of government, the Speaker of the House, plays four times as much? You heard correctly: John Boehner once told Golf Digest that he plays upwards of 100 rounds a year. Seems like a double standard, no?

Obama has taken more vacation time than any president in history
This isn't even remotely accurate either, but first, some context from Nancy Reagan: "Presidents don't get vacations  they just get a change of scenery. The job goes with you." The responsibilities, the pressure, the officer with the "nuclear football"  it's all with a commander-in-chief at all times. No exceptions.

But how much time away from the White House has President Obama spent, and how does this compare with predecessors?

POTUS Tracker, compiled by The Washington Post, shows that from January 2009 to October 31, 2012, Obama spent all or part of 72 vacation days in a variety of places, mostly Hawaii in the winter and Martha's Vineyard in the summer. That's about 10 weeks away in three-and-a-half years, hardly extravagant. Through May 18, according to data from CBS's Knoller, he also visited Camp David 22 times, spending all of part of 54 days there.

What about his predecessors?

· In 1798, President John Adams left the capital for seven months to care for his ailing wife Abigail; his enemies said he practically relinquished his office.

· Thomas Jefferson and James Madison routinely went away for three- and four-month stretches.

· Abraham Lincoln, during the Civil War, was blasted for spending about 25 percent of his time away from the White House.

· Dwight Eisenhower took long summer breaks in Denver and spent almost every single weekend at Camp David.

· John F. Kennedy rarely spent a weekend in the White House, staying at family homes in Palm Beach, Hyannis Port, and the Virginia countryside.

· Lyndon Johnson spent 484 days in five and a half years at his Texas ranch.

· Ronald Reagan was away for 436 days, usually at Rancho del Cielo (his mountaintop retreat in California) or Camp David.

· Bill Clinton, who didn't own a vacation home, loved to party with his elite friends in Martha's Vineyard and the Hamptons.

· George W. Bush spent 32 months at his ranch (490 days) or Camp David (487 days)  an average of four months away every year.

Time off doesn't mean goofing off. President Bush, for example, met with a variety of foreign leaders at his ranch. President Obama held a G-8 summit at Camp David. Just like you might check your email while sitting on the beach (you fool, you), presidents never really unplug. But if anyone deserves a vacation, it is the person who serves in the world's most stressful and demanding job.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Did I brag??? I don't remember bragging about my hate of this man. I know of his policies and what he says in public and that all deserves my lack of respect and his pitting the people against each other is a despicable thing to do as a president. THAT alone brings hate to my heart because he is supposed to lead this country to greatness not tear it down the way he has. I maintain he has done this as a result of his beliefs and tendencies to dislike the US and all of it's people.
> Yes what I say here I mean SERIOUSLY. Get over yourself. These are my opinions, like them or not.
> What really cracks me up is the way some people will say he is the greatest president, then turn around and say he has little power. Which is it? Seriously?


These kind of wacky comments tear us apart. I don't think he is the greatest prez. I just don't understand where you get some of your comments from: how he doesn't like us (who do you mean by us?) and pitting people against each other. Just wondering.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Michelle likes to spend money. I don't care if she spends hers. I don't care if the taxpayers cover her travel costs for official visits, but vacations should be paid for by the worker. I think all travel costs outside the US should be pro-rated based on official functions each day. Businesses handle travel in that way and so should our government. Businesses don't pay for vacations unless someone is on official business.
> 
> China is just the latest in a long line of vacations with a few governmental duties manufactured along route. Here are a few:
> 
> ...


As conservatives rage about the cost of Obamas Africa trip, it is important to remember that George and Laura Bush made a combined 7 trips to Africa all on the taxpayers dime.

Weve played this game before, but anytime the nations first black president spends more than a dollar, the right wing freaks out about Barack Obama wasting taxpayer dollars. Back in 2011, the right claimed that First Lady Obamas Africa trip would cost taxpayers millions, but even if you use numbers that the White House disagrees with ($424,000), they werent even close.

This time the right has whipped up the fake outrage over a leaked document showing that President Obamas upcoming Africa trip could cost $60-$100 million. What these same people dont tell is that George and Laura Bush loved to go to Africa on the taxpayers dimea lot.

Laura Bush also took her daughters with her, and they went on a safari. You know, the same kind of outing that President Obama just canceled.

For some odd reason, the GAO (General Accounting Office) records on the cost of the Bush familys Africa travels seem to have vanished. The media has contacted the GAO, but no specific numbers have been provided yet. President Clintons Africa trip in 1998 cost taxpayers $42.8 million. George W. Bushs two trips five and ten years later were likely more expensive.

President Obama hasnt made any trips to Africa, except a 22 hour stopover in Ghana in 2009, so it is pretty clear that Secret Service is basing their cost estimate on the cost of the Bush trips. Since George W. Bush made two presidential trips to Africa, it is likely that he spent more money in todays dollars as President Obama will on his trip.

The reality is that presidential trips are expensive. It would be fair to be opposed to all of them, but the hypocrisy of only being outraged when certain presidents travel is unacceptable. George W. Bush appears to have had himself quite a little African spending spree, but apparently cost only matters when Barack Obama is the president who is doing the traveling.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SQM said:


> So Cooke's brain is out of gear because she disagrees with you? Then I proudly declare my brain out of gear also. Rather have my gears totally stripped than share your world view.


Me,too. ha ha ha
:thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> As conservatives rage about the cost of Obamas Africa trip, it is important to remember that George and Laura Bush made a combined 7 trips to Africa all on the taxpayers dime.
> 
> Weve played this game before, but anytime the nations first black president spends more than a dollar, the right wing freaks out about Barack Obama wasting taxpayer dollars. Back in 2011, the right claimed that First Lady Obamas Africa trip would cost taxpayers millions, but even if you use numbers that the White House disagrees with ($424,000), they werent even close.
> 
> ...


Yes, all the right does is prove what hypocrites they are.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is really funny considering the money and other support we have given Israel all these years. Why do you think any liberals have, in past decades, been involved in the resolution of middle east issues?


"The money and other support" was given by previous presidents. More recently, it's been intellectuals and universities, with their policies of boycotting not the Israeli government but Israeli scholars, who indicate what the future will be like.

There are physicists in Israel who can't get their papers published in English-language journals, and some foreign ones as well, despite the fact that they are making important discoveries. Without publishing, they lose contact with other scientists. Since journals are how science is shared, this boycott is a death sentence for Israeli science.

And then there are all the accusations that Israel is practicing genocide, without any notice of how often Arab countries say they want to "wipe Israel off the map." Please check out the map; note that the only country smaller than Israel (the size of New Jersey) is Lebanon, which was once a democracy but is now very weak and largely run by Hezbollah.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> "The money and other support" was given by previous presidents. More recently, it's been intellectuals and universities, with their policies of boycotting not the Israeli government but Israeli scholars, who indicate what the future will be like.
> 
> There are physicists in Israel who can't get their papers published in English-language journals, and some foreign ones as well, despite the fact that they are making important discoveries. Without publishing, they lose contact with other scientists. Since journals are how science is shared, this boycott is a death sentence for Israeli science.
> 
> And then there are all the accusations that Israel is practicing genocide, without any notice of how often Arab countries say they want to "wipe Israel off the map." Please check out the map; note that the only country smaller than Israel (the size of New Jersey) is Lebanon, which was once a democracy but is now very weak and largely run by Hezbollah.


Baruch Ha Shem - my Purl is here to help me with Israel.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

GranmaD said:


> damemary Go get a cat scan of your brain. wonder if it will show anything but an empty film. Or maybe a big malignant tumor that has eaten your gray matter if any was even ever there. Low information voters like you are what is making this country look weak.


How low can *you* go? To the bottom with writing such as this.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I am not disavowing anything I have written or believe. What makes Obama a disgrace is the way he flaunts playing golf and vacationing while telling good American citizens they haven't sacrificed enough. Or preaching about redistributing wealth, while he spends more and more. He is a disgrace because he doesn't respect the flag or our National Anthem when it is played by placing his hand over his heart. He is a disgrace because he incites division among the American people instead of being the voice of reason. He is also a disgrace because he feels it is his duty to preach to us about our ability to make a business work by telling us we didn't do it ourselves.
> I really don't care if you have all the political information available. These are character traits, he has very low ones.


Twisted.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> YES, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY. THERE MUST BE SECRET SERVICE. AND GUESS WHO PAYS FOR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It appears your cap lock got stuck. hmmm, when you are First Lady or the President then you get yours paid for.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Let's get something straight here. None of us have said we hate the President. Get that fact straight. And you don't need a link for it.


Somebody did say hating things. Wrote that the Prez was an A.H. Also the person was going to dance on his grave (or something to that effect).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Apropos of nothing on this thread, but since it is popular, I chose it for all to read the following link:
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/health/brain-crafting-benefits/index.html?hpt=hp_bn13


This is still a knitting forum. There have been articles on this before, but all they said was that knitting and sewing can lower blood pressure, not that they could affects various psychological conditions. Thanks for the post.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Twisted.


True to form. Bashing people just because you disagree......


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I beg to differ. I understand the horrific torture Jews have had to endure, and I love many Jews, perhaps for their progressive outlook. In any mediation, no one gets to win it all at the expense of the other side. There is only so much land available in the Middle East. IMHO it must be shared somehow between Jews and Palestinians.
> 
> Sorry. I do not mean to offend.


Thank you. A lot of Israelis agree with you, but every time another rocket is fired into a town, they lose more of their influence, and the hardliners gain more influence over Netanyahu.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

mamasbird said:


> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion? Why is he trying to shove the Muslim religion down our throats? Why has he apologized to the Arab nation for the USA when we haven't done anything wrong? Why are the Muslims trying to kill everyone when their so-called religion prohibits killing of anyone? And tell me why there is no birth certificate of his birth in the US? Why is there no proof of him being at any of the colleges he professes to have gone to? I would like to have all these questions answered without having made up excuses!


Tell me why you write all these odd things that don't make any sense?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> my2blkcats
> you seem to be one of the mothers who lets her children do as they like at an early age without any supervision. Poor Parenthood. I applaud the First Lady and the President to take care of their children so carefully. Tough enough to be in the limelight but tougher yet to be shielded from the Haters.


I agree - with the number of people who hate that family- how can you blame them for wanting them to have security. They are entitled to it from what I have seen in the past. All the family are protected. There are people out there who hate them enough to cause problems in that regard from the things they say.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> I just finished reading an article in TIME March 24 2014 by Alex Altman and Michael Schere "Conservatives Inc. Marketing wizards make millions off the movement. Is it money well spent?" about the CPAC event held this month in the Washington DC area. It does much to explain how these improbable Republican issues become part of the media conversation. On p. 28: "In the Obama era, lucrative outfits have sprung up to spread the falsehood that the President was born on foreign soil, seek his impeachment and investigate the attack on the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi, Libya. Winning doesn't always matter; in fact, a campaign that has no measurable impact on elections or public opinion can be a remunerative as one that does. Activists make their appeals, collect the checks and move on."
> 
> In other words, make up an issue, stir up the patriots, and count the money as the donations come pouring in.


And there's no law that requires them to be truthful, esp. if they call it "news."


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> How low can *you* go? To the bottom with writing such as this.


Ute - they insult people all the time - it is part of being a Good Christian I guess. They say such dreadful things I don't know how they sleep at night -- If they read their posts again, how can they go to Church and face the other Christians in their congregations. Unless ( and I don't believe it is the case) they all believe the same thing.

There are one or two on the right forums who I believe - really are good Christians - but they are not the insulters even though they believe the lies of the others.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I have shown no temper whatsoever. You don't see what is right in front of you. He consistantly disrespects all the things I listed. And instead of arguing on those facts you bash, bully, and belittle people who have differing opinions.
> As far as joining the discussion I will do as I please, since this is still a somewhat free country.


oh here it comes now. When you can't show a reason for your comments, then it's the "bash, bully, and belittle" game.


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## Dot-I (Jun 25, 2011)

Politics has NO place on a craft program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> As your comments reek.
> 
> Now, there's no question that he plays on a regular basis: 104 rounds from January 2009 through Aug. 4 of this year, the last time he played, according to Mark Knoller, the longtime White House correspondent for CBS Radio. That puts him about in the middle when compared with other duffers-in-chief. It's less than Bill Clinton, and a lot less than Dwight Eisenhower, who played more than 800 rounds over eight years  four times as often as Obama plays.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Tell me why you write all these odd things that don't make any sense?


More than one of us has asked this poster to please provide a link where this information was found. Of course no one has received an answer. I think it was from her imagination.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Oh give up the Bush hating! You are ridiculous.
> 
> 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?
> 
> ...


Gee, what a whipped up frenzy of nothing.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are one of the Left Wing Nuts (LWNs) that no one can stand on KP. Anyone who has not read the latest Obamacare thread (or any of them) or the War on Women thread that are both full of hatred, foul language, back hitting among yourselves, and just a need to vent evil garbage, should definitely check out how the LWNs handle themselves on the threads they rant on.
> 
> I prefer civilized discussion, and I find women interested in God, recipes, children and grandchildren, emotional support for others who are ill, and civil discussion of current events there.
> 
> ...


Too much generalizations.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I was an editor at one time, and have no time for your demands or games. You are a LWN. I don't work for you or respect your opinions and biases.


You were an editor of what? Was it a RWN booklet?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, if you are "Maysmom" you sure resemble a man in your Avatar!


Does that mean you are a slim, pointed object that is surrounded by long strands of spun material taken from living animals?
Goodness knows you are not as sharp as that piece in your picture.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that
> there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.
> 
> Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


SQM - I was not aware that she feels that way -- I certainly don't.
I remember the difficulties when Israel became a State -- there was a great deal of support by our Government and most Canadians. My husband was stationed with the United Nations on the Gaza Strip -- in l964 -- he was stationed there for a year, then in Cyprus, had served in Germany and Korea with the UN forces.

He found Israel amazing and respected what they accomplished. He spent his furlogh in Tel Aviv -- I don't think the world really realizes the situation that Isreal is in - a Huge portion of the world which surrounds them would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth so I can't blame them for being pretty strong willed about how they react - certainly different Governments there were more interested in adding land, but I do think that their mindset was that it was a protective matter, not a matter gaining land for the sake of a larger country. We are not Jewish - however both of us are very Pro Israel, not because I believe the Government is always right, but because we understand the position they are in. I did and do however, have sympathy for the Arabs who were displaced - I believe it was mishandled and that the Mufti of Jerusalem, who had a huge amount of Power, and

who hated the Jews so much and that the opportunity for them to live in peace with the arabs was undermined he was very powerful and refused to even consider that there be a State of Israel.

After what happened to the Jewish people - I feel and always felt that they had a right to a country of their own. I still do.

I am still ashamed that my Government refused asylum to a ship of Jewish People who were trying to escape the Nazis - it was also refused by the US - and both countries knew what was happening.

None of our Citizens knew, of course, and I believe and hope, if we had known - a different outcome would have happened.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> This is just more Bush hating by LWNs. Not true, but then the LWNs have a lot in common with Obama. They like to lie.


And yours are silly RWN comments.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> "The money and other support" was given by previous presidents. More recently, it's been intellectuals and universities, with their policies of boycotting not the Israeli government but Israeli scholars, who indicate what the future will be like.
> 
> There are physicists in Israel who can't get their papers published in English-language journals, and some foreign ones as well, despite the fact that they are making important discoveries. Without publishing, they lose contact with other scientists. Since journals are how science is shared, this boycott is a death sentence for Israeli science.
> 
> And then there are all the accusations that Israel is practicing genocide, without any notice of how often Arab countries say they want to "wipe Israel off the map." Please check out the map; note that the only country smaller than Israel (the size of New Jersey) is Lebanon, which was once a democracy but is now very weak and largely run by Hezbollah.


Now Purl, you know I am exceedingly fond...but, why raise the president in this? 
Who does appropriations? We both, all, know how the budget process works...http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=8527


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> The LWNs have taken over this thread. That's too bad. I think they get tired of ravaging each other on War on Women and bored with themselves on Obamacare. They don't want rational discussion, just the ability to name call and fight. I have seen this time after time on interesting threads that they gravitate towards and turn into ugly scenes. I am Unwatching now. Have fun LWNs. For those who aren't in their group, a warning - it's going to go downhill from here.


Good riddance.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tamarque-- I enjoy reading your well thought out posts - Obviously you have studied and looked for the truth prior to posting. I watch for your thoughts - I am not as well informed as you are but I do accept what you write- as you 'put your money where your mouth is and back your statements with information with specific truths. I just know that
> there are many many lies being passed on as Truth and you sort out what are lies and what really happened.
> 
> Yet our tamarque views Israel as a great evil nation of the world but will not comment on other countries, including our own, that are much worse. And that the new reason to hate Jewish people is now cloaked in harsh criticism of Israel.


SQM - I was not aware that she feels that way -- I certainly don't.
I remember the difficulties when Israel became a State -- there was a great deal of support by our Government and most Canadians. My husband was stationed with the United Nations on the Gaza Strip -- in l964 -- he was stationed there for a year, then in Cyprus, had served in Germany and Korea with the UN forces.

He found Israel amazing and respected what they accomplished. He spent his furlogh in Tel Aviv -- I don't think the world really realizes the situation that Isreal is in - a Huge portion of the world which surrounds them would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth so I can't blame them for being pretty strong willed about how they react - certainly different Governments there were more interested in adding land, but I do think that their mindset was that it was a protective matter, not a matter gaining land for the sake of a larger country. We are not Jewish - however both of us are very Pro Israel, not because I believe the Government is always right, but because we understand the position they are in.

I think it was mishandled because of the Mufti who hated the Jews so much and that the opportunity for them to live in peace with the arabs was undermined by the Mufti of Jerusalem (I think that was his name) who was very powerful and refused to even consider that there be a State of Israel.

After what happened to the Jewish people - I feel and always felt that they had a right to a country of their own. I still do.

I am still ashamed that my Government refused asylum to a ship of Jewish People who were trying to escape the Nazis - it was also refused by the US - and both countries knew what was happening.

None of our Citizens knew, of course, and I believe and hope, if we had known - a different outcome would have occurred.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit Crazy said: 9/11 happened because Clinton didn't take the chance to get Bin Laden when he could. However, I don't hate him. Who knew that kind of evil could happen?


So since Clinton didn't get Bin Laden, that means Bush didn't have to do anything. It was ok for him to ignore the information that he received saying there were going to be planes hijacked, that there were people attending flight schools that shouldn't have been there, and on and on and on? The Bush administration ignored a lot of information they should have followed up on. No way can they sit there and say, "well Clinton didn't get him, so we don't have to." That is complete stupidity on your part.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Dakota Sun said:


> Well said and I agree with you 100%. Our health insurance has gone sky high, gas prices are out of sight and companies have moved out of the USA because of high taxes. I could go on and on. I have lived through a lot of Presidents and this one has been the worst in my book. Freedom of Speech and the press. I stand behind the Constitution of the United States Of America and our fore fathers would turn over in their graves if they knew how bad our country is right now and wanting to change the Constitution. AMEM!!!!!!!!!!!!


Huh?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knit crazy wrote:
This is just more Bush hating by LWNs. Not true, but then the LWNs have a lot in common with Obama. They like to lie.

There is no bigger lie than the lie told by the Bush administration saying that there were WMD's in Iraq. All they really wanted was control of the oil. They believed they would go into Iraq and the people would be so grateful for them getting rid of Sadam. How did that work out?


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Bloomers said:


> I doubt you want my opinion either. I believe he will go down in history as the president who destroyed the US from the inside out.


Is this for laughs? It's very silly.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

cialea said:


> I still think it shows how little the men of the Republican party think of woman in general... Hey a woman is on the ticket! They got my vote! Not after the 1st time I heard her open her mouth...My husband & I looked at each other & said what the )**&^%??? And ran the other way!


They get a woman's name from the "binders of women". LOL LOL


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

my2blkcats said:


> I already posted on FB about that. I don't even think it's right for the taxpayer to have to foot the bill for Mrs O to have a separate vacation period. They have plenty of $$$ so they either pay for Air Force One themselves AND food and lodging or else don't go! We just paid for the whole family to vacation in Hawaii for some weeks, and if I remember correctly, Mrs O stayed in Hawaii for a while after the president went home. Now, I'm sure Air Force One had to go back again to pick her up. I think her mother was with them then too. It's not right that us taxpayers should have to foot the bill for this. I know, sometimes I can't afford to go on a vacation, but still WE are paying for others. Not fair and I totally disagree with this. Does the mother pay some kind of room and board for living in the White House?? I bet she has all the amenities to---like maid service and room service, meals, laundry, etc. this is one of the reasons this country is in such a fix financially.


Aren't they just so uppity. :roll:


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

my2blkcats said:


> Why does a mother of two quite grown children need help taking care of them. Especially when they're with the mother? It's not like she's off working somewhere, she's WITH THEM ON VACATION!!!!


Go away with your ignorant comments.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I thank you damemary -- I would not want to walk a mile in her shoes. I am quite content to be a Canadian. Always have been and always will be. However, I am really interested in US Politics, what is happening there, how it affects my country and also the fact that I have many many friends there on both sides of the Political spectrum. I don't hide my beliefs - and never have.
> 
> We 'foreigners' have every right to post on these threads. They are open forums, not managed sites where you can delete those whose posts you don't want.
> 
> ...


Thank you , thank you, thank you for your comments.!!!!!

:thumbup:


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> True to form. Bashing people just because you disagree......


True to form to say one is "bashing" because you disagree.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does that mean you are a slim, pointed object that is surrounded by long strands of spun material taken from living animals?
> Goodness knows you are not as sharp as that piece in your picture.


Yeah, what was that comment about the avatar? Seems it was meant to be some sort of ridicule.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> SQM - I was not aware that she feels that way -- I certainly don't.
> I remember the difficulties when Israel became a State -- there was a great deal of support by our Government and most Canadians. My husband was stationed with the United Nations on the Gaza Strip -- in l964 -- he was stationed there for a year, then in Cyprus, had served in Germany and Korea with the UN forces.
> 
> He found Israel amazing and respected what they accomplished. He spent his furlogh in Tel Aviv -- I don't think the world really realizes the situation that Isreal is in - a Huge portion of the world which surrounds them would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth so I can't blame them for being pretty strong willed about how they react - certainly different Governments there were more interested in adding land, but I do think that their mindset was that it was a protective matter, not a matter gaining land for the sake of a larger country. We are not Jewish - however both of us are very Pro Israel, not because I believe the Government is always right, but because we understand the position they are in.
> ...


Thanks for your very well-thought comments and for saving me from having to point out that Canada did not do anything to help the Jews during WW2. But you are certainly not Canada, so this last comment was not directed to you.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> True to form to say one is "bashing" because you disagree.


I do disagree with what you wrote. You don't know anything about me. And it was bashing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I am not disavowing anything I have written or believe. What makes Obama a disgrace is the way he flaunts playing golf and vacationing while telling good American citizens they haven't sacrificed enough. Or preaching about redistributing wealth, while he spends more and more. He is a disgrace because he doesn't respect the flag or our National Anthem when it is played by placing his hand over his heart. He is a disgrace because he incites division among the American people instead of being the voice of reason. He is also a disgrace because he feels it is his duty to preach to us about our ability to make a business work by telling us we didn't do it ourselves.
> I really don't care if you have all the political information available. These are character traits, he has very low ones.





ute4kp said:


> Twisted.


An unforgettable video involving Bush shows him speaking outdoors to a bunch of people - probably reporters - about terrorism. "We must stop the terror. I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. *Now watch this drive.*" And sure enough, he picks up a golf club and hits a ball with it. Very serious about the terrorism.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Thank you , thank you, thank you for your comments.!!!!!
> 
> :thumbup:


YOu are welcome -- I get tired of those who think these threads are private for their own uses. they don't want outsiders to read the posts. No on on the Left has ever written a post which has sounded as if they don't want others from other places to read i at least I have not read on if they have. Yes they fight too and sometimes not pleasantly - but they post facts, not lies and I have checked them out.

I believe that way down deep they are embarrassed at the things they are saying and they don't want outsiders or 'foreigners' to know what they really are like.

By the way. Foreigners is not right - All members of KP are members -- no one who 'signs up' is a foreigner on this forum.

I contribute a lot to this forum at least I try to . I have many many friends here - and I don't ask and neither do they what political 'side' I am on. Only here do they try to make me and people like Inishown from N. Ireland, and other 'down under people' who 'dare' to join in, feel unwelcome.

I refuse to be treated like a stranger when this forum belongs to me just as it belongs to all of us. When people who are so nasty and believe such lies, do l/4 of the work I do for this forum on a volunteer basis, I might be willing to accept their attacks and listen to their insults that I should 'go home' and 'mind my own business'. I have withdrawn for some time but have lurked a bit -- I have thought about it and have decided that I will speak if I wish to -- and will not accept insults from a few people who I disagree with completely. I will not let them chase me away.

I am not as knowledgeable as the Americans here- I acknowledge that and I don't apologize for that -- however, I believe I know what is right and wrong - and the lies being told and the attacks on a very savvy, intelligent, well educated woman who happens to be the First Lady but also happens to be black are disgraceful.

Even her mother and her children are attacked, without any basis .
The President was elected - and has dealt with constant road blocks put in his way- deliberately so that they can say he failed. They are the ones who are failing - Failing to be good citizens, they would rather hurt their country than allow him to succeed as the President. It is a shame.

Many people in the world are watching their antics- their lies - we can all watch and read and see - and we can't be told it is none of our business because it is our business what happens to the United States. So tell me off, call me names, tell me I don't have the right to my opinion. I am not a liar , I never have been and I never will be - it was not the way I was raised. I am interested in the truth - and I don't see a lot of it on their topics. Instead I see vicious, personal attacks based in a lot of cases, lies, I see people passing the lies on until others who want to repeat them and then come up with more lies. I see believing Christians who are decent good people - being influenced by the nasties who have an agenda-

We don't have to agree with everyone to remain civil. I have also seen people on the left who reply in a non civil way. I have done it myself - and I have not liked myself afterwards. However, I understand the frustration of dealing with blind hatred and outright lies and refusal to ever say -- oh, I didn't realize that, I might have been mistaken about that fact. Not once.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Somebody did say hating things. Wrote that the Prez was an A.H. Also the person was going to dance on his grave (or something to that effect).


But nobody actually said "We hate the President,"
did they?

What's an A.H.?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> An unforgettable video involving Bush shows him speaking outdoors to a bunch of people - probably reporters - about terrorism. "We must stop the terror. I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. *Now watch this drive.*" And sure enough, he picks up a golf club and hits a ball with it. Very serious about the terrorism.


Idiot! Hopeless. Seems like Jeb is stirring in his den now. The smartest of the bunch - but still a Bush.


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - with the number of people who hate that family- how can you blame them for wanting them to have security. They are entitled to it from what I have seen in the past. All the family are protected. There are people out there who hate them enough to cause problems in that regard from the things they say.


In 2003, when President Bush was still popular, he took a trip to England. "Mr. Bush will be accompanied by a retinue consisting of *250 members of the Secret Service, 150 advisers from the National Security Department, 200 representatives of other government departments and 50 political aides.*

There will also be approximately 100 journalists travelling with him. There are also his *personal chef, personal assistants, four cooks, medics and the presidential 15-strong sniffer dog team.*" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1446742/Bushs-flying-circus-leaves-out-only-the-kitchen-sink.html

How many of the posters here complained about that? In fact, how many of them were even aware that it was happening?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

mamasbird said:


> I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


What do you plan to do, tar and feather her? Or have a no-iron sheet party for the Obama followed by a lawn BBQ? Jump into your pick-up and high tail to a thread that would find your ideas noble.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> In 2003, when President Bush was still popular, he took a trip to England. "Mr. Bush will be accompanied by a retinue consisting of *250 members of the Secret Service, 150 advisers from the National Security Department, 200 representatives of other government departments and 50 political aides.*
> 
> There will also be approximately 100 journalists travelling with him. There are also his *personal chef, personal assistants, four cooks, medics and the presidential 15-strong sniffer dog team.*" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1446742/Bushs-flying-circus-leaves-out-only-the-kitchen-sink.html
> 
> How many of the posters here complained about that? In fact, how many of them were even aware that it was happening?


Good for good ole GWB!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

NJG said:


> More than one of us has asked this poster to please provide a link where this information was found. Of course no one has received an answer. I think it was from her imagination.


It could have been revealed to her in a dream.


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

You can say whatever you want, but, I stick to my views. She is using the American people and I think it's about time someone spoke up about it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does that mean you are a slim, pointed object that is surrounded by long strands of spun material taken from living animals?
> Goodness knows you are not as sharp as that piece in your picture.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

mamasbird said:


> I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


Could you back those assertions up with some actually fact? 
I am betting that the smells roses each and every day, however, the saying is "wake up and smell the coffee",
"stop and smell the roses" is another. Mrs. Obama, will hopefully, be with us as FLOTUS for another three years and then, glory be, she will be earning a quarter of a million dollars or so for each and every speaking engagement she accepts and there will be many. I can't wait.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


Please show me the proof that they are taking advantage and explain to this 'foreigner' how or why she 'is not going to get away with this action much longer? do you have inside information. Mrs Bush got away with it for 8 years - no one begrudged her trips and there were a lot of them.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could you back those assertions up with some actually fact?
> I am betting that the smells roses each and every day, however, the saying is "wake up and smell the coffee",
> "stop and smell the roses" is another. Mrs. Obama, will hopefully, be with us as FLOTUS for another three years and then, glory be, she will be earning a quarter of a million dollars or so for each and every speaking engagement she accepts and there will be many. I can't wait.


And she is from Shirley, Mass. I remember that town being quite lovely. Has it changed all that much in 33 years?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Is this for laughs? It's very silly.


Are you sure it wasn't those who made up their minds they would not cooperate with him or help him do his job, or treat him with respect from the day he started running for office?? Or those who have attacked everything he has ever said or done. He did not start the War-- the Bushes started both of them. Or at least that is what the world was shown. YOu can't change what really happened


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> And she is from Shirley, Mass. I remember that town being quite lovely. Has it changed all that much in 33 years?


Shirley is lovely, sometimes they forget to lock the door at night. The strays get in.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, if you are "Maysmom" you sure resemble a man in your Avatar!


Actually, I'm the little white dog--no, he's a boy, too. He does vocalize, though.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> SQM - I was not aware that she feels that way -- I certainly don't.
> I remember the difficulties when Israel became a State -- there was a great deal of support by our Government and most Canadians. My husband was stationed with the United Nations on the Gaza Strip -- in l964 -- he was stationed there for a year, then in Cyprus, had served in Germany and Korea with the UN forces.
> 
> He found Israel amazing and respected what they accomplished. He spent his furlogh in Tel Aviv -- I don't think the world really realizes the situation that Isreal is in - a Huge portion of the world which surrounds them would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth so I can't blame them for being pretty strong willed about how they react - certainly different Governments there were more interested in adding land, but I do think that their mindset was that it was a protective matter, not a matter gaining land for the sake of a larger country. We are not Jewish - however both of us are very Pro Israel, not because I believe the Government is always right, but because we understand the position they are in. I did and do however, have sympathy for the Arabs who were displaced - I believe it was mishandled and that the Mufti of Jerusalem, who had a huge amount of Power, and
> ...


Designer1234, I take no exception to anything you said - you have a very good memory. I only want to add to it. There have always been Jews living on that land, except when expelled by the Babylonians in the 6th century B.C.E., an exile they returned from, and later by the Romans. So they, too, have rights to that land. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Israel and the Arab nations could come to some agreement?

Also, an aunt of my mother-in-law's was on one of the ships that were turned back. She was never able to join her husband, who was in the US with their two older sons. Their two other children died with their mother.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Are you too young to remember the assassination of Kennedy and the attempts on Reagan and the pope? These incidents are what started the heavy security presence.


I think you miss the point. It is because of the behavior of the US in the world that is brings on the need for such heavy security. All the politicians travel with security throughout th world. But the extent of it with the US is brought on by the factors I suggested.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


Oh dear, another exclamation maven!!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Now Purl, you know I am exceedingly fond...but, why raise the president in this?
> Who does appropriations? We both, all, know how the budget process works...http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=8527


I'm confused. I thought I was moving away from the president and to universities and intellectuals with their BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement. At least, that's what I intended to do. President Obama has absolutely nothing to do with that.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Dakota Sun said:


> Well said and I agree with you 100%. Our health insurance has gone sky high, gas prices are out of sight and companies have moved out of the USA because of high taxes. I could go on and on. I have lived through a lot of Presidents and this one has been the worst in my book. Freedom of Speech and the press. I stand behind the Constitution of the United States Of America and our fore fathers would turn over in their graves if they knew how bad our country is right now and wanting to change the Constitution. AMEM!!!!!!!!!!!!





ute4kp said:


> Huh?


Don't you understand Bizarro?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks for your very well-thought comments and for saving me from having to point out that Canada did not do anything to help the Jews during WW2. But you are certainly not Canada, so this last comment was not directed to you.


A huge number of us had no idea what our Government was doing -- It was a different time. We honestly had no idea what was going on with the Nazis and the "Jewish' Situation. It came out a few years ago that both Governments, Canadian and American were aware of what was happening . I remember that one of my best friends was a Jewish girl whose family was in Europe. She didn't say much (we were in Grade l0 I believe-) but she started crying in school, and I followed her out to see what was wrong - she told me that her grandparents, Aunts and Uncles had been killed by the Nazis. I couldn't believe it -- I told my Parents and they said it was quite possible. That was immediately after the war had ended. We had seen the pictures of the ovens.

My friend and other Jewish Friends were devastated at the new they were receiving. It left a mark on me -- Lies and innuendos and hate should not be part of America or Canada or any free country in the world.

Just as an aside-- My husband had extremely serious hear t surgery 3 years ago and I noticed that the name of the Heart wards was the same name as my friend and the boy she went with during school. It was my friend. He was from a well to do family - they had started a grocery store in Calgary and all the children worked there constantly while they were going to school. They were very poor- Al worked his way through University and became an excellent businessman and did very well.

It made me feel how happy his wife would be (she had died of a stroke a few years ago) that the wards that were named after her had saved my husband's life. They donated 8 million dollars to the Cardiac-Stroke section of the Foothills hospital in the city I live in. There is also an ongoing fund to train student cardiologists and as dh's valves were so noticeably bad before his two valve replacements- the students came with their teacher on a daily basis as it is a teaching hospital - to listen to his weird valves. He had surgery and is doing very well. But I thought at the time how wonderful their gift to us, and other citizens of our city was. I also know that they contributed to hospitals in Tel Aviv. Just a story, but a true one. Who would have thought how they would save my husbands life, when we were close friends in high school.

I know we got off the main subject of the Obamas and how 'dreadful' they are, but maybe we needed a break from the nastiness.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Idiot! Hopeless. Seems like Jeb is stirring in his den now. The smartest of the bunch - but still a Bush.


"Stand Your Ground" was passed while Jeb was governor.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm confused. I thought I was moving away from the president and to universities and intellectuals with their BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) movement. At least, that's what I intended to do. President Obama has absolutely nothing to do with that.


Well, you know me, I can only focus on one thing... then I got an IM from an old friend and have been distracted.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Good for good ole GWB!


How much do you suppose his trip cost? All of it on our dime, including his personal chef and four cooks. If it was was good for good ole GWB, it's just as good for his successor.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> You can say whatever you want, but, I stick to my views. She is using the American people and I think it's about time someone spoke up about it.


You could train your birds to speak up about it. They certainly look bright enough.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer: Amazing story. Could be made into a film.

Actually the New York Times was writing about the genocide in WW2 but they only wrote brief articles and buried them in the middle of the first section under the fold. But even with a dearth of facts, it was quite clear what was happening to the European Jews But Designer - please do not get defensive - all this is not directed to you, personally. But you can tell me if I will be able to knit with only 15 stitches on a 12" circular or will the needle be too big. Would a 9" circular manage to hold 60 stitches and allow me to decrease to 15? Ha Ha. I snuck a question in!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Oh dear, another exclamation maven!!!


You're not allowed to agree one thousand percent unless you use many many !!!!!!!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Designer1234,
> 
> Also, an aunt of my mother-in-law's was on one of the ships that were turned back. She was never able to join her husband, who was in the US with their two older sons. Their two other children died with their mother.


I apologize for my Government - I was born in l931 so was a teen ager during the war- However I had a lot of Jewish friends. rarely was anything known - life was simple and innocent then.

When I heard that we had turned those (I believe it was more than one) away - I couldn't believe it. It was disgraceful. I do not remember one Canadian Citizen of my Parents friends who were not horrified by our Governments actions. It was not made public until I was married with children - I don't remember when but it was many years later.

As the Americans didn't get very much - in fact hardly any information about Canada or other countries in school, I doubt that the American Citizens knew either. I had always admired President Roosevelt but it has always bothered me and many of our friends that neither of our Governments allowed the ships to land. It was shameful --

soo sad.

There is absolutely nothing to be said in their defense in my opinion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> A huge number of us had no idea what our Government was doing -- It was a different time. We honestly had no idea what was going on with the Nazis and the "Jewish' Situation. It came out a few years ago that both Governments, Canadian and American were aware of what was happening . I remember that one of my best friends was a Jewish girl whose family was in Europe. She didn't say much (we were in Grade l0 I believe-) but she started crying in school, and I followed her out to see what was wrong - she told me that her grandparents, Aunts and Uncles had been killed by the Nazis. I couldn't believe it -- I told my Parents and they said it was quite possible. That was immediately after the war had ended. We had seen the pictures of the ovens.
> 
> My friend and other Jewish Friends were devastated at the new they were receiving. It left a mark on me -- Lies and innuendos and hate should not be part of America or Canada or any free country in the world.
> 
> ...


This is the kind of story I love. I hope your husband continues to be doing well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, you know me, I can only focus on one thing... then I got an IM from an old friend and have been distracted.


Maybe you need bifocals so you can bifocus. I hope your old friend had good news.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> "Stand Your Ground" was passed while Jeb was governor.


Cubes! I am getting the feeling that he is being groomed. And I think he might be able to win against Clinton, because Americans have a brief attention span, the average IQ is 100, and the oil magnates and other big corps. would certainly want a Bush back in. Not to mention the military which is getting cutbacks with Pres. Obama but utterly thrived under Bush. Ugh! The plot sickens! Cubes!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Designer1234, I take no exception to anything you said - you have a very good memory. I only want to add to it. There have always been Jews living on that land, except when expelled by the Babylonians in the 6th century B.C.E., an exile they returned from, and later by the Romans. So they, too, have rights to that land. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Israel and the Arab nations could come to some agreement?
> 
> ===============
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Amazing story. Could be made into a film.
> 
> Actually the New York Times was writing about the genocide in WW2 but they only wrote brief articles and buried them in the middle of the first section under the fold. But even with a dearth of facts, it was quite clear what was happening to the European Jews But Designer - please do not get defensive - all this is not directed to you, personally. But you can tell me if I will be able to knit with only 15 stitches on a 12" circular or will the needle be too big. Would a 9" circular manage to hold 60 stitches and allow me to decrease to 15? Ha Ha. I snuck a question in!


The NYTimes was owned by Jews and had a Jewish publisher and editor, all of them assimilated. They purposely kept that news buried so their wealthy WASP friends wouldn't associate them with the eastern Europeans.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is the kind of story I love. I hope your husband continues to be doing well.


Yes he was dreadfully ill and would not have lived if one of the surgeons who trained under the cardiac surgical training paid for by my friends saved his life. He had his aortic and mitral valve replaced as well as 2 by passes. He was given two month if he didn't get the surgery. I will never forget them and I am so happy as I knew her really well and she would feel so good about it.

I am not giving their names but will in a pm if interested.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The NYTimes was owned by Jews and had a Jewish publisher and editor, all of them assimilated. They purposely kept that news buried so their wealthy WASP friends wouldn't associate them with the eastern Europeans.


yeah I forgot that part or am too ashamed to note that in public. They were German Jews. Hmm??????


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I apologize for my Government - I was born in l931 so was a teen ager during the war- However I had a lot of Jewish friends. rarely was anything known - life was simple and innocent then.
> 
> When I heard that we had turned those (I believe it was more than one) away - I couldn't believe it. It was disgraceful. I do not remember one Canadian Citizen of my Parents friends who were not horrified by our Governments actions. It was not made public until I was married with children - I don't remember when but it was many years later.
> 
> ...


I adore FDR but...

He supposedly knew about the plan to bomb Pearl Harbor but allowed it to happen because he didn't want the Japanese to know we had broken their code.

Anne Frank's father wrote many letters to relatives in the US trying to get visas for his family to come here, and though a few very influential people (the Strauss family, who owned Macy's, were among them) made requests to the government, the answer was always NO.

That has only been made public recently.

But there is no reason for you to apologize for your government. Or for me to apologize for mine.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> "The money and other support" was given by previous presidents. More recently, it's been intellectuals and universities, with their policies of boycotting not the Israeli government but Israeli scholars, who indicate what the future will be like.
> 
> There are physicists in Israel who can't get their papers published in English-language journals, and some foreign ones as well, despite the fact that they are making important discoveries. Without publishing, they lose contact with other scientists. Since journals are how science is shared, this boycott is a death sentence for Israeli science.
> 
> And then there are all the accusations that Israel is practicing genocide, without any notice of how often Arab countries say they want to "wipe Israel off the map." Please check out the map; note that the only country smaller than Israel (the size of New Jersey) is Lebanon, which was once a democracy but is now very weak and largely run by Hezbollah.


Poor, poor Purl-- you have been drinking the koolaid again. Everything you say is only the marketing propaganda of Isreal and the US. BDS is about causing pain. Isreal has been attacking education of the Palestineans. It has interrupted students from Gaza going to University in West Bank. It refuses to allow students to leave for foreign Universities causing them to lose their scholarships. Schools are shot up and bombed. Students are shot at for fun by the IDF. The list of human rights violations perpetrated by Isreal are enormous. Why wouldn't a BDS movement cause pain to the education system of Isreal. But journals are not the only means for intrascientific communication. Scientists use the web extensively for printing their articles and dialoguing. What is affected is the money that comes into Isreal. And why not if you are fighting to bring a country to heel for its arrogance and racist, colonialist practices.

And poor little Isreal has the biggest military in the Mid -East, paid heavily by the US. It has been a nuclear power for several decades. Isreal after many years finally admitted publicly what everyone else knew--Dimona was a nuclear facility built with US money. It is estimated that country has anywhere from several dozen to 200 nuclear weapons. It is sheer hypocracy to let Isreal get away with its oh-poor-me mantra.

And it has been Isreal that has rejected efforts of Middle Eastern states to extend an olive branch. There has been a peace offering regarding Palestine on the table for several years now. Isreal refuses to acknowledge it but loves to complain about having no partner for peace. Big BS!
Further, there is no country running around screaming about wiping Isreal off the map. And includes Iran. If you don't speak that country's language you have no way of knowing what is being said if your news is from mainstream sources from Fox 5 to CNN. I have read the so-called offensive comment from Iran and it said it wanted the Isreali govt gone--well, so do I. That is not saying the country should be gone. That is called propaganda.

And who are you, or any American, to decide who the people of another country want as their leaders. That is the problem with the US--American exceptionalism. Laws for others, but not the US. The US believes it can change leadership that they don't like and does so in every democratic election in developing countries and countries of people of color. Look at what the US has just done in the Ukraine--$5 million to fund neo-nazi groups to create dissension and disruption all because the people elected someone who was opposed to western policies and monetary controls. So if the Lebanese support Hezbollah that is their business. The US has no ethics and it seems too many people in this country don't either.

It seems to me that if there were some real transparency, people in this country as represented by the cross section of ideas and experiences here on KP, would have vastly different understandings. But information is available if a person extends themselves to find it. It is not that difficult by using the web to read independent journalists and to connect with people in different countries thru their own grass roots organizations. There is also a huge body of history available that puts the lie to the mainstream propaganda that is fed the public.

But poor little Isreal? Nothing poor about that country except a growing number of people, same as here.

I do understand SQM's feelings as a Jewish person regarding a sense of safety in the world. However, I cannot accept being a progressive person in one country and applying/supporting reactionary, racist politics in another. And Isreal is a racist country. It treats its darker skin Jewish members almost as poorly as it does the Palestinians. And the way they treat African immigrants seeking political assylum is even worse than what the US does and that is despicable. Isreal's goal has always been to eliminate the Palestinians and claim all of what they call Greater Palestine. The Nakba was a mass genocidal assault on the people who had been living there for 100's of years. So many of the old homes were Palestinian before the European Jews expelled them, killing 1000's. The wonderful orchards of oranges and olives that Isreal likes to point to saying how they made the desert bloom? No--they stole the orchards of the Palestinians and their technology. And to this day Isreal is destroying the agricutural livelihood of the Palestinians by chopping down and burning the orchards of olive trees tended by families for generations. It is stealing the farmland by arbitrarily building the separation wall around the orchards and preventing the farmers from reaching them. There 100's of human rights violations documented by many organizations from around the world. It is not poor Isreal, but arrogant Isreal, lying Isreal, disingenuous Isreal about a peace process. Isreal has broken every cease fire and has gone out of its way with targeted and untargeted killings designed to enflame the Palestinians into a response.

I am sorry folks, but this issue of poor little Isreal is not getting by me without a critique. People who support Isreal should get some real information and then sit down for a dialogue. Isreal is not an innocent, nor is it helpless. It is viciously aggressive and totally racist. And there are many Jewish people there who say the same thing. Actually, the paper over there will print even more of what I talk about here. Those are professional journalists, historians, politicians, activists who are saying what I write about. There are lawyers and rabbis from whom i learn my information. And there are international groups from the International Solidarity Comm to the UN who report this information.

But when people spout uninformed opinions/feelings on things in this country, it is certainly not surprising to see the same or worse about American ideas about other countries.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Designer: Amazing story. Could be made into a film.
> 
> Actually the New York Times was writing about the genocide in WW2 but they only wrote brief articles and buried them in the middle of the first section under the fold. But even with a dearth of facts, it was quite clear what was happening to the European Jews But Designer - please do not get defensive - all this is not directed to you, personally. But you can tell me if I will be able to knit with only 15 stitches on a 12" circular or will the needle be too big. Would a 9" circular manage to hold 60 stitches and allow me to decrease to 15? Ha Ha. I snuck a question in!


I didn't mean to come across as defensive-- It happened, I didn't have anything to do with it and most of our citizens didn't either but it is truth and there is no reason to deny the truth .

As far as your question -- It would depend on the yarn thickness and the nedle size. I use the magic loop method for sleeves and socks or circular knitting-that we taught in the workshop, and knit back and forth with fairly long circulars if it is flat.{- I never us straights}. I use my Addi turbo circulars 100 cm or 39+ inches long from point to point for everything - I also do have denise interchangeables for longer things like afghans etc. as I have a 50" cord.

If you are doing something circular you might be better to read the Magic loop workshop - that is where I learned it and I never do sleeves, socks or even pullovers using anything else. I don't know whethe I am much help. If you are doing something flat you can use whatever size holds the knitting comfortably.

HOpe this helps. -
check out the workshop link under my post and scroll down to magic loop with Darowil. Workshop #10 - I believe it will be on page two . It is a bit confusing but take the time to learn it and you will never regret it in my opinion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cubes! I am getting the feeling that he is being groomed. And I think he might be able to win against Clinton, because Americans have a brief attention span, the average IQ is 100, and the oil magnates and other big corps. would certainly want a Bush back in. Not to mention the military which is getting cutbacks with Pres. Obama but utterly thrived under Bush. Ugh! The plot sickens! Cubes!


He probably is being groomed, and will have a lot of support if he decides to run.

But would he bring back Katherine Harris as secretary of state? Oh, please, please, please.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Readers of Tamarque,

Please substitute Jew ever time you read Israel and you may discover what are Tamarque's real feelings.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The NYTimes was owned by Jews and had a Jewish publisher and editor, all of them assimilated. They purposely kept that news buried so their wealthy WASP friends wouldn't associate them with the eastern Europeans.


It is true that many Jews changed their names and their manner of speaking and their addresses in order to assimilate and not be seen as being Jewish. They could pass and many of them did. But when you are a person of color, that can never be hidden. And that is central to the problem of the first family. Their color will never allow them to pass in order to get into the white boys club.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes he was dreadfully ill and would not have lived if one of the surgeons who trained under the cardiac surgical training paid for by my friends saved his life. He had his aortic and mitral valve replaced as well as 2 by passes. He was given two month if he didn't get the surgery. I will never forget them and I am so happy as I knew her really well and she would feel so good about it.
> 
> I am not giving their names but will in a pm if interested.


I doubt that I would know who they were. But I'm happy that they were able to contribute to your husband's recovery. It must have been frightening for both of you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Cubes! I am getting the feeling that he is being groomed. And I think he might be able to win against Clinton, because Americans have a brief attention span, the average IQ is 100, and the oil magnates and other big corps. would certainly want a Bush back in. Not to mention the military which is getting cutbacks with Pres. Obama but utterly thrived under Bush. Ugh! The plot sickens! Cubes!


Chris Hayes was talking about the Sheldon primary in LV that begins this week. I dozed through part of it so I missed some. It seems that the auditions are on to get huge chunks of Sheldon Adelson's green stuff.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

tamarque said:


> It is true that many Jews changed their names and their manner of speaking and their addresses in order to assimilate and not be seen as being Jewish. They could pass and many of them did. But when you are a person of color, that can never be hidden. And that is central to the problem of the first family. Their color will never allow them to pass in order to get into the white boys club.


Pass as what? European Jews are caucasians just like WASPs.

And of course is goes without mentioning that the stuff the Obamas deal with is pure racism. But it is hard not to admire the intelligence and grace they have dealing with it. But I am sure they prepared themselves for all of this. It is very important to be heard when you feel the president is being victimized by bigots. Might have made a world of difference for the Jews in Europe.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

tamarque said:


> It is true that many Jews changed their names and their manner of speaking and their addresses in order to assimilate and not be seen as being Jewish. They could pass and many of them did. But when you are a person of color, that can never be hidden. And that is central to the problem of the first family. Their color will never allow them to pass in order to get into the white boys club.


I have no doubt that color is the major factor in the disgusting treatment the President and his family are being subjected to. (The other factor is the fact that he's a Democrat. I doubt that Allen West would be given the same treatment. But that wouldn't happen because the GOP would lose half its membership.)

As used to be said about women, he'd have to work twice as hard as any white man to get recognition, and even then there would still be barriers.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Readers of Tamarque,
> 
> Please substitute Jew ever time you read Israel and you may discover what are Tamarque's real feelings.


Excuse me! Now you switch sides and use your own ad hominems when it suits you to play dirty emotional games. Don't interpret me to others. This attempt to demean me says more about your real principles than it says about me.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I adore FDR but...
> 
> He supposedly knew about the plan to bomb Pearl Harbor but allowed it to happen because he didn't want the Japanese to know we had broken their code.
> 
> ...


I don't quite agree with you - the horror was so dreadful -- if an apology from a Canadian helps someone realize that we were not aware, then I am willing to apologize. I am not taking responsiblity for their actions but I do feel and don't mind anyone knowing that I have always felt dreadful about it. If that means something to a Jewish person, then that is good in my opinion. I speak for my self only. I don't apologize for anyone else. It is one of the few times I have felt ashamed of my country ; not of myself, but the Government at that time. So much goes on behind closed doors, actually I feel that Canada has been a good country - and the people are usually good people. I know our contribution to the war - but we really didn't know what was really happening until after the fact. That doesn't mean I don't feel badly that it did happen.

There have been things happen with our elected or appointed officials recently that make me unhappy - this was different in my opinion. They knew what was happening - to me there is nothing right about their actions. jmo.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Readers of Tamarque,
> 
> Please substitute Jew ever time you read Israel and you may discover what are Tamarque's real feelings.


The actions of the Israeli government are horrendous. 
Palestinians are people too. If the situation were reversed you would be calling people out for not supporting Jews. Just as you are about WWII, like there is something we can do about that now. 
How can anyone talk about the treatment of Jews being horrific and then allow for the treatment of others as just fine and dandy?
FGS, there are many Israelis who don't like what the gov't is doing . Look at the election figures. 
Jews and the Israeli government are not interchangeable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/22/us-israel-election-idUSBRE90K0FP20130122


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The actions of the Israeli government are horrendous.
> Palestinians are people too. If the situation were reversed you would be calling people out for not supporting Jews. Just as you are about WWII, like there is something we can do about that now.
> How can anyone talk about the treatment of Jews being horrific and then allow for the treatment of others as just fine and dandy?
> FGS, there are many Israelis who don't like what the gov't is doing . Look at the election figures.
> Jew and the Israeli government are not interchangeable.


Thank you Janet.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Certainly Jews have differing opinions and I am not above arguing with Israelis when I can. But on some level Jews are the Israeli government. And certainly the Israeli govt. is mostly Jews.

Point of Fact: There were Jews living in Arab countries for a thousand years. They were also sent into exile.

No country treats any country well! All countries have rid themselves of the first arrivers to establish themselves and wipe out the indigenous cultures. 

Do not hold Israel up to higher standards. 

I admire both of you ladies but there is that intangible that may defy reason, that resides in a Jewish person's heart for Israel. This cannot be rationalized or argued away. And unless you were there, you just don't get it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah I forgot that part or am too ashamed to note that in public. They were German Jews. Hmm??????


People are people - and wealth and power often corrupts. There was a stigma against the eastern European Jews in many places in the world. It is like different neighborhoods in a city - there are the good - middle and upper class areas and the 'poor areas' only on a much larger stage.

I was fortunate to go to high school where half the students were Jewish. We never noticed, except that they had their own separate dances etc. but I don't remember any serious bad feelings among our friends at school.

I belonged to a Baptist girls group called the Canadian Girls in training -- it was Protestant Christian organization. I remember when I was in high school that we visited a Catholic Church service and arranged for them to visit our church Service , and we had a conversation - as the Catholic kids went to the Catholic Church- We also visited a Temple and attended a Jewish service - I remember the Wonderful singing. We then had them to visit our Church- and had a discussion about our differences.

The Priest from St. Mary's Joined all three discussions, our Minister joined and also the Rabbi -- and we were way ahead of our time. I never forgot that all three places 'felt' like a Church'- not just our Baptist Church- it was a huge lesson -- all the three "Church" leaders seemed to be completely men of Faith - but it was amazing how many feelings and things were the same.

I went to a highschool reunion a few years ago and some of the girls in that group were there - and we talked about that 
changed our attitudes or kept us from incorrect attitudes about those who were 'different' we saw so many things that were the same. We went to St. Mary's Cathedral every Christmas eve until I left my home to get married - We also attended certain Jewish special days, and services - and learned a great deal. They came to our Baptist Church too.

We were ahead of our time I think. It stuck with me. I was fortunate to grow up without a dislike of other religions.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer - very touching and lovely story.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Designer - very touching and lovely story.


I seem to have gone down memory lane tonight -- I am weary but I am glad I dropped by. It was a change from the nastiness at least for a little while. I hope.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I adore FDR but...
> 
> He supposedly knew about the plan to bomb Pearl Harbor but allowed it to happen because he didn't want the Japanese to know we had broken their code.
> 
> ...


All this information has been known for decades; it just doesn't make mainstream media or grade school text books.
FDR wanted to take the US into the war and needed an excuse, thus, he let Pearl Harbor happen. Sounds like Bush/Cheney needing their own Pearl Harbor to push their Neo-con agenda and lo & behold there came 9-11. But I bet we will learn a lot less about these neo-cons involvement than we did about FDR's choices.

As for apologies, they really are not needed. What is needed is that people learn from history and work to ensure that such things never be repeated again.

Unfortunately, history is not used to teach the lessons of peace and we have had numerous other holocausts since the Nazi's killing of 13 million in concentration camps, 7 million being Catholics, Political prisoners, mentally unstable people and Gay people. It was not only Jews that were targeted. The Russians lost something like 25 million people in that war. Some have learned lessons of peace, but others bring bitterness forward. I have had experiences with both sorts.

We lost a man in my community about 3 yrs ago. He was such a wonderful person. An Austrian Jew, he was caught up in the Nazi incursion. One day he spoke to me about that experience. A group of friends, age 11-12, had formed an underground cell which worked to help Jewish people escape or to sabotage Nazi efforts in the area. He did this for a few yrs until he was picked up by the local Gestapo. Through connections his father got him out of their grips and the country and he wound up in the US. None of his group died in the war; they remained a very close, impenetrable group which is what kept them safe. Fairly late in his life he dictated stories to his wife and gave me a copy of those stories. I was so moved by this man and his courage. He spent his entire life fighting for social justice and against any tyranny. He particularly despised what Isreal had become, as he practiced Never Again Anywhere! When he finally came out of hiding from his past, he began to give talks to young students in the local school districts. His life was so inspirational to many as he brought life to the history of the text books.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Have you read your own message? The tone is very offensive. I happen to have spoken to some of the physicists my message refers to. Have you ever been to Israel? I have, a couple of times, and though I disagree with much the government does, I can also see what the nation has to defend itself against. Students in Gaza would have had no trouble going anywhere if their leaders had not chosen to use the area as a place from which to lob rockets into Israel. When Sharon turned Gaza over to them, they were given all the houses and factories and farms and greenhouses that the Israeli settlers in Gaza had constructed, and what did they do with all that? Destroyed them, then complained about their treatment.

BDS may be about causing pain, but the targets are not anyone in authority. The ones being hurt are the scholars and scientists and artists. It makes no sense, and it is already having a destructive effect.

Your message was too long for me to want to put up with, but I caught you saying that the IDF shoots kids for fun. What a foul interpretation of what they're doing. Do you think every young person in the country _wants_ to serve in the army before he can work on his education and career. No, they have to simply to keep the country secure.

The Palestinians have much better PR these days than Israel has, especially with people like you swallowing everything they say, but I don't think they're any more believable, and less so since they refuse to take the one step any country would insist on before negotiating. I think the Koolaid is in your corner.


tamarque said:


> Poor, poor Purl-- you have been drinking the koolaid again. Everything you say is only the marketing propaganda of Isreal and the US. BDS is about causing pain. Isreal has been attacking education of the Palestineans. It has interrupted students from Gaza going to University in West Bank. It refuses to allow students to leave for foreign Universities causing them to lose their scholarships. Schools are shot up and bombed. Students are shot at for fun by the IDF. The list of human rights violations perpetrated by Isreal are enormous. Why wouldn't a BDS movement cause pain to the education system of Isreal. But journals are not the only means for intrascientific communication. Scientists use the web extensively for printing their articles and dialoguing. What is affected is the money that comes into Isreal. And why not if you are fighting to bring a country to heel for its arrogance and racist, colonialist practices.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Certainly Jews have differing opinions and I am not above arguing with Israelis when I can. But on some level Jews are the Israeli government. And certainly the Israeli govt. is mostly Jews.
> 
> Point of Fact: There were Jews living in Arab countries for a thousand years. They were also sent into exile.
> 
> ...


I am aware of that - and even though I am not a Jew - I think that it reverts back to the Old Testament. For hundreds of years the Jews were considered '2nd class citizens' and they were hungry for a 'place ' where they belonged. Any Jewish person I know feels that Israel is their heart's home no matter where they live in the rest of the world. I used to visit with my friend's family and they were from Poland originally and they talked of the promised land - If I remember correctly - it was a promise by God ' the "promised land" I know when Israel was made a home for the Jews, each of the Jews in our part of the world helped financially and a lot of the young people went there and worked in kibutz (?)
some of my friends moved there. I found it so interesting.

I am far from an expert -
I hope I am not explaining things incorrectly, but that is what I learned-


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

tamarque said:


> It is true that many Jews changed their names and their manner of speaking and their addresses in order to assimilate and not be seen as being Jewish. They could pass and many of them did. But when you are a person of color, that can never be hidden. And that is central to the problem of the first family. Their color will never allow them to pass in order to get into the white boys club.


You seem to be holding it against Jews that most of them are white. How is that different from racism against black or brown people?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't quite agree with you - the horror was so dreadful -- if an apology from a Canadian helps someone realize that we were not aware, then I am willing to apologize. I am not taking responsiblity for their actions but I do feel and don't mind anyone knowing that I have always felt dreadful about it. If that means something to a Jewish person, then that is good in my opinion. I speak for my self only. I don't apologize for anyone else. It is one of the few times I have felt ashamed of my country ; not of myself, but the Government at that time. So much goes on behind closed doors, actually I feel that Canada has been a good country - and the people are usually good people. I know our contribution to the war - but we really didn't know what was really happening until after the fact. That doesn't mean I don't feel badly that it did happen.
> 
> There have been things happen with our elected or appointed officials recently that make me unhappy - this was different in my opinion. They knew what was happening - to me there is nothing right about their actions. jmo.


I think so highly of you that I will stand corrected. I will gladly accept your apology.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Certainly Jews have differing opinions and I am not above arguing with Israelis when I can. But on some level Jews are the Israeli government. And certainly the Israeli govt. is mostly Jews.
> 
> Point of Fact: There were Jews living in Arab countries for a thousand years. They were also sent into exile.
> 
> ...


You know, I think I understand what you are trying to say as well as a person who does not have the Jewish heritage as herstory. I was thinking about this as I was on my way back in to hunt up Purl's post that I only responded to half of. 
I think that both of you deserve our full attention. 
I do not and cannot fully understand what it means to be any sort of minority. Well, female, let's discount that for the moment, though. 
Despite being raised in a working class family, I have full blown "I am a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and don't stand in my way" entitlement syndrome. 
You know who I am, I am everywhere and I belong wherever I want to be. I am just like those women who have proclaimed on this site that "I am Christian and if anyone disagrees with me they don't belong here and should leave". 
Except that I was raised to have a well developed sense of empathy so that piece is buried. Well, and I dumped the Christian so I know how it feels to be the outsider.

None of those are the same, though, are they? None of those little differences are the same as feeling that some day the place where I think I belong will no longer own me, it will instead try to destroy all that is mine and me. 
And maybe that is part of the reason that it is so important to keep Israel alive. So that Jews can believe that there is an oasis in a desert of potential hate. 
Because while we swear that a holocaust can never be allowed to happen again, we have allowed much smaller facsimiles to occur and done nothing. 
It could happen again, would we be smart enough to spot it, brave enough to stop it. 
To see us back down in the face of the disaster that is the Russian take over of the Crimea must be frightening. 
How can we be trusted to protect Israel despite all of our assurances if we won't do what should be done for the Syrian refugees or the Ukranian folks? 
Keep us accountable. We may not always like reading it. We may say STHU, Woman, you are driving us crazy with that talk, but, don't stop.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Poor, poor Purl-- you have been drinking the koolaid again. Everything you say is only the marketing propaganda of Isreal and the US. BDS is about causing pain. Isreal has been attacking education of the Palestineans. It has interrupted students from Gaza going to University in West Bank. It refuses to allow students to leave for foreign Universities causing them to lose their scholarships. Schools are shot up and bombed. Students are shot at for fun by the IDF. The list of human rights violations perpetrated by Isreal are enormous. Why wouldn't a BDS movement cause pain to the education system of Isreal. But journals are not the only means for intrascientific communication. Scientists use the web extensively for printing their articles and dialoguing. What is affected is the money that comes into Isreal. And why not if you are fighting to bring a country to heel for its arrogance and racist, colonialist practices.
> 
> And poor little Isreal has the biggest military in the Mid -East, paid heavily by the US. It has been a nuclear power for several decades. Isreal after many years finally admitted publicly what everyone else knew--Dimona was a nuclear facility built with US money. It is estimated that country has anywhere from several dozen to 200 nuclear weapons. It is sheer hypocracy to let Isreal get away with its oh-poor-me mantra.
> 
> ...


==============
Just a question -- were you an adult when Israel became a country? or is your information from books ? I am not being sarcastic - I think if you had been an adult or a teenager after World War II you might have a different feeling if you saw the movies of the ovens - where 6 million jews were put in the ovens- but we are all entitled to our opinions. I do not agree with you on this subject at all . That is not a fallacy -- it is the truth. It is forgotten and ignored by those who don't like Israel.

Yes Israel is aggressive - but when Israel was allowed a small area of the world for a country - it was offered to the Arabs that they remain on their farms but become part of Israel and become
Israelis - they , under the instructions of the Mufti refused and went to war with the Jews. That is what really happened. I read every word written about that area -I was a young woman after the war . They were and still are 
being threatened with being wiped off the face of the earth.

They are alone and are surrounded by Arabs who hate them and want them dead. It will never change.

It is the next generation and even the 2nd generation after Israel became a state - they have grown up knowing that they must always be alert and always be on guard. that is a fact.

Don't tell me that the Mufti of Jerusalem didn't instruct the arabs to wipe them off the face of the earth -- I heard him and saw him on the news - it is a fact - I don't know of all your claims -- you are well read so some of your facts are likely true - however I know the reasons and I understand their position as far as keeping
themselves alert and ready for trouble. I know that some of their Government leaders were not willing to compromise and I am not saying that is right - I just am saying that I understand how Israel was founded and what happened then - and I am pro Israel.

You sound pretty nasty which is rather unusual for you - jmo.

I am tired and am ready for bed. night all.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The actions of the Israeli government are horrendous.
> Palestinians are people too. If the situation were reversed you would be calling people out for not supporting Jews. Just as you are about WWII, like there is something we can do about that now.
> How can anyone talk about the treatment of Jews being horrific and then allow for the treatment of others as just fine and dandy?
> FGS, there are many Israelis who don't like what the gov't is doing . Look at the election figures.
> ...


What you say is mostly true - I take exception you your singling out of Israel as "horrendous" when so many other governments are doing even worse things to their own people. I think all SQM meant was that Tamarque's latest messages have been anti-Semitic, not just anti-Israel.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you read your own message? The tone is very offensive. I happen to have spoken to some of the physicists my message refers to. Have you ever been to Israel? I have, a couple of times, and though I disagree with much the government does, I can also see what the nation has to defend itself against. Students in Gaza would have had no trouble going anywhere if their leaders had not chosen to use the area as a place from which to lob rockets into Israel. When Sharon turned Gaza over to them, they were given all the houses and factories and farms and greenhouses that the Israeli settlers in Gaza had constructed, and what did they do with all that? Destroyed them, then complained about their treatment.
> 
> BDS may be about causing pain, but the targets are not anyone in authority. The ones being hurt are the scholars and scientists and artists. It makes no sense, and it is already having a destructive effect.
> 
> ...


We really have vastly different experiences. I am in daily touch with Isrealis and Palestinians. I see on video what is going on. You may not like what I say, and I agree that it is horrible to say those things. However, what I say is true. Every single word of it and much more.

And since you think my responses are too long, let me note that there are many organizations of Jews and Jews and Palestinians who don't support the mainstream narrative. I think the PR that you complain of is the number of Palestinians jailed without charge and kept for months to years. Or the number of women not allowed to get to hospitals for the birth of their children. Or activists like Rachel Corey who was run over by a bulldozer as she visibly stood on a pile of rubble in an orange jacket. Or the Gazan fisherman who are regularly fired upon by the Isrealis to prevent them from fishing in clean waters. This is the Palestinian PR--the daily torment of their lives under an illegal occupation. Ultimately, this brutal, terrorizing, illegal occupation will be Isreal's Achille's Heel.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> People are people - and wealth and power often corrupts. There was a stigma against the eastern European Jews in many places in the world. It is like different neighborhoods in a city - there are the good - middle and upper class areas and the 'poor areas' only on a much larger stage.
> 
> I was fortunate to go to high school where half the students were Jewish. We never noticed, except that they had their own separate dances etc. but I don't remember any serious bad feelings among our friends at school.


My brother-in-law was born in Vancouver; his parents were from Vienna but left in the 1920s. He remembers his teen years there very fondly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry. Accident.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For everyone on this thread complaining about Israel. The land belongs to Israel. It is their Promised Land. It was given to Jacob's(Israel's) descendants by God. The people have been taken into captivity many times because they disobeyed God. They have returned.
> 
> The Palestinians(Arabs) are the usurpers, There will never be peace between the Jews and the Arabs, until Christ returns. What Arab or Muslim has ever said that the country of Israel has the right to exist? Have you ever heard of a Muslim company that has Jews and Muslims working side by side? There are Jewish companies that do, and the standard of living is much higher for those who work in the Jewish Companies.
> 
> Why did Iraq fire scud missiles into Israel in the Gulf War in 1990? Israel was not part of the coalition. How many times has Iran said they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?


 :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Frankly, it sounds as though you're willing to believe anything and everything about Israelis as long as they're seen in a bad light. We certainly have had vastly different experiences. I met a young man who was in a tank when a Palestinian squad managed to shell it. Then they got inside, shot 3 of the Israelis in the head and took the fourth, whom they kept imprisoned for over 5 years. Two of the 3 died, but one lived. I met him more than a year after the incident, and he had still not recovered full functioning. It's not a walk in the park for the Israelis, either.

I would prefer not to continue this discussion, but as long as you state falsehoods for truth, I'll contradict you. Just as I contradict those who state falsehoods about the President.


tamarque said:


> We really have vastly different experiences. I am in daily touch with Isrealis and Palestinians. I see on video what is going on. You may not like what I say, and I agree that it is horrible to say those things. However, what I say is true. Every single word of it and much more.
> 
> I am also familiar with people visiting Isreal and only seeing the nice white image that certain areas present. Like in the US, most white people have no clue as to how people of color live and struggle for survival. They say the same things as you do about my words on Isreal. But these nice white middle class people haven't a clue about life as a person of color or a poor person in the US. 50 laws in Isreal have been passed to specifically limit the existence of Palestinians. When Isreal left Gaza, all 4 small outposts, they destroyed the greenhouses and other structures. The safety of Isreal was destroyed only by Isreali leadership itself. Many who settled in Isreal after WWII were young, socialists who moved to the Kibbutzim and lived collectively. I was very influenced when younger by this experience. That is until I began to learn to whole story.
> 
> And yes, the IDF shoots at school children for fun and intimidation. There was a period when they shot at the children's eyes to blind them so they couldn't throw stones. Then came to period of arm breaking to stop that protest of the occupation. Sorry this bothers you, but if people can be asked to look at their own history here, then the same shoudl hold about other countries.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You know, I think I understand what you are trying to say as well as a person who does not have the Jewish heritage as herstory. I was thinking about this as I was on my way back in to hunt up Purl's post that I only responded to half of.
> I think that both of you deserve our full attention.
> I do not and cannot fully understand what it means to be any sort of minority. Well, female, let's discount that for the moment, though.
> Despite being raised in a working class family, I have full blown "I am a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and don't stand in my way" entitlement syndrome.
> ...


Janet, thank you. You really get what we feel like.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IYO



Dot-I said:


> Politics has NO place on a craft program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does that mean you are a slim, pointed object that is surrounded by long strands of spun material taken from living animals?
> Goodness knows you are not as sharp as that piece in your picture.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: And I look just like Grace Kelly in her prime.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ute4kp said:


> They get a woman's name from the "binders of women". LOL LOL


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Yeah, that's how you find em.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For everyone on this thread complaining about Israel. The land belongs to Israel. It is their Promised Land. It was given to Jacob's(Israel's) descendants by God. The people have been taken into captivity many times because they disobeyed God. They have returned.
> 
> The Palestinians(Arabs) are the usurpers, There will never be peace between the Jews and the Arabs, until Christ returns. What Arab or Muslim has ever said that the country of Israel has the right to exist? Have you ever heard of a Muslim company that has Jews and Muslims working side by side? There are Jewish companies that do, and the standard of living is much higher for those who work in the Jewish Companies.
> 
> Why did Iraq fire scud missiles into Israel in the Gulf War in 1990? Israel was not part of the coalition. How many times has Iran said they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?


Joey, the argument that Jews were promised the country by God is not going to convince anyone who doesn't already believe it. And I don't think the Palestinians can be called "usurpers," since they've been taught all their lives that the land is theirs and theirs alone. But you're right about the threats to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, not just by Iran but by other Arab countries as well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: And I look just like Grace Kelly in her prime.


You mean you don't? That's how you'll always look to me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I got tears in my eyes reading about your MIL's family that perished. A horrible, horrible time in history. May we never forget. But I also relate to what you said about all nations coming to an agreement. Wish they could live side by side in peace.



Poor Purl said:


> Designer1234, I take no exception to anything you said - you have a very good memory. I only want to add to it. There have always been Jews living on that land, except when expelled by the Babylonians in the 6th century B.C.E., an exile they returned from, and later by the Romans. So they, too, have rights to that land. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Israel and the Arab nations could come to some agreement?
> 
> Also, an aunt of my mother-in-law's was on one of the ships that were turned back. She was never able to join her husband, who was in the US with their two older sons. Their two other children died with their mother.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid I'm beginning to understand.



Poor Purl said:


> Don't you understand Bizarro?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"So that Jews can believe that there is an oasis in a desert of potential hate. "

The Jews know there is a place for us when the next cube happens.

Glad you got it Cooke. 

A WASP? How exotic and exciting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think Jeb will change his last name to Ruiz and find a smart girl in the binders to satisfy them suffragettes.



SQM said:


> Cubes! I am getting the feeling that he is being groomed. And I think he might be able to win against Clinton, because Americans have a brief attention span, the average IQ is 100, and the oil magnates and other big corps. would certainly want a Bush back in. Not to mention the military which is getting cutbacks with Pres. Obama but utterly thrived under Bush. Ugh! The plot sickens! Cubes!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: And I look just like Grace Kelly in her prime.


You do in my mind and the Cooke is a wise-cracking 50s teenager. Don't spoil my spin on my reality.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe Sarah Palin will work on her makeup. (snark)



Poor Purl said:


> He probably is being groomed, and will have a lot of support if he decides to run.
> 
> But would he bring back Katherine Harris as secretary of state? Oh, please, please, please.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The old imperialistic ways of destroying native cultures and replacing them has gone on for thousands of years.....but it's always wrong. We lose something of real value and substitute gravel.



SQM said:


> Certainly Jews have differing opinions and I am not above arguing with Israelis when I can. But on some level Jews are the Israeli government. And certainly the Israeli govt. is mostly Jews.
> 
> Point of Fact: There were Jews living in Arab countries for a thousand years. They were also sent into exile.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Spin on.



SQM said:


> You do in my mind and the Cooke is a wise-cracking 50s teenager. Don't spoil my spin on my reality.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm glad you don't have bifocals.



Poor Purl said:


> You mean you don't? That's how you'll always look to me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think Jeb will change his last name to Ruiz and find a smart girl in the binders to satisfy them suffragettes.


Isn't his wife Hispanic?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I got tears in my eyes reading about your MIL's family that perished. A horrible, horrible time in history. May we never forget. But I also relate to what you said about all nations coming to an agreement. Wish they could live side by side in peace.


Almost every Jewish family has similar stories. My father's oldest brother stayed behind when the rest of the family came to the US, because he was married and had 6 children and a good job. He and his entire family died in Auschwitz. I sometimes think about the 6 cousins I would have had.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm afraid I'm beginning to understand.


Just think everything means its opposite. It's easy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe Sarah Palin will work on her makeup. (snark)


Wouldn't they make a great comedy team?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm glad you don't have bifocals.


If I did, you'd look twice as good.


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## GemsByGranny (Dec 7, 2012)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


What she does with her money is her business, just as what you do with your is your business. I'm not in the USA. I don't know what Obama is doing, but look to your own affairs, and don't assume others have to spend their cash as you would approve. It's no-one else's business.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You cannot possibly know that. Your tone is condescending and you are putting forward gossip as fact. As we tell so many others, put up the proof, show us the links. I want to see the reliable sources.



tamarque said:


> Poor, poor Purl-- you have been drinking the koolaid again. Everything you say is only the marketing propaganda of Isreal and the US. BDS is about causing pain. Isreal has been attacking education of the Palestineans. It has interrupted students from Gaza going to University in West Bank. It refuses to allow students to leave for foreign Universities causing them to lose their scholarships. Schools are shot up and bombed. Students are shot at for fun by the IDF. The list of human rights violations perpetrated by Isreal are enormous. Why wouldn't a BDS movement cause pain to the education system of Isreal. But journals are not the only means for intrascientific communication. Scientists use the web extensively for printing their articles and dialoguing. What is affected is the money that comes into Isreal. And why not if you are fighting to bring a country to heel for its arrogance and racist, colonialist practices.
> 
> And poor little Isreal has the biggest military in the Mid -East, paid heavily by the US. It has been a nuclear power for several decades. Isreal after many years finally admitted publicly what everyone else knew--Dimona was a nuclear facility built with US money. It is estimated that country has anywhere from several dozen to 200 nuclear weapons. It is sheer hypocracy to let Isreal get away with its oh-poor-me mantra.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yep. Didn't she get in trouble for sneaking items through customs rather than paying duty?



Poor Purl said:


> Isn't his wife Hispanic?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember reading 'The Diary of Anne Frank' as a child and imagining it all. I still can't understand the horror.



Poor Purl said:


> Almost every Jewish family has similar stories. My father's oldest brother stayed behind when the rest of the family came to the US, because he was married and had 6 children and a good job. He and his entire family died in Auschwitz. I sometimes think about the 6 cousins I would have had.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What else would they be?



Poor Purl said:


> Wouldn't they make a great comedy team?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you. Beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder.



Poor Purl said:


> If I did, you'd look twice as good.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I remember reading 'The Diary of Anne Frank' as a child and imagining it all. I still can't understand the horror.


I don't think I could comprehend the horror then and I am not sure that I can today.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> For everyone on this thread complaining about Israel. The land belongs to Israel. It is their Promised Land. It was given to Jacob's(Israel's) descendants by God. The people have been taken into captivity many times because they disobeyed God. They have returned.
> 
> The Palestinians(Arabs) are the usurpers, There will never be peace between the Jews and the Arabs, until Christ returns. What Arab or Muslim has ever said that the country of Israel has the right to exist? Have you ever heard of a Muslim company that has Jews and Muslims working side by side? There are Jewish companies that do, and the standard of living is much higher for those who work in the Jewish Companies.
> 
> Why did Iraq fire scud missiles into Israel in the Gulf War in 1990? Israel was not part of the coalition. How many times has Iran said they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?


Oh stop! You know darned well that fundamentalists do not believe that there will be peace between people if that fairy tale becomes truth. Why are you pretending differently?
I don't know any Muslim companies and I don't know any Jewish companies, I don't even know any Christian companies. 
Businesses do not have religious beliefs, that matter if before the USSC now. 
Here's hoping that they are rational in their decision. A money making concern is not able to have a belief in God, or not for that matter. Faith and belief are human conditions not derived from money and paperwork, nor from property and commodity.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Excuse me! Now you switch sides and use your own ad hominems when it suits you to play dirty emotional games. Don't interpret me to others. This attempt to demean me says more about your real principles than it says about me.


Tamarque, reading your post about Israel, really surprises me -- It is obvious that you were not even born when all the things happened during and after the War. They were given a small amount of land - surrounded by those who hated them by the United Nations if remember correctly. I feel now and felt then it was because of the Shame the rest of the world felt about the way they were treated by just about every non Jew in the world at that time. I was young but our family used to have wonderful discussions about what was going on (that we knew about) some information did get out but no one really believed that anyone could treat other human beings that way.

I read some of the posts by the right wing people on this forum and I get that same sick feeling. There are some who hate him and his family so much that I fear for his life. He needs security .All the Presidents need security -- I would never feel they were overstepping by taking the girls' Grandmother with them on that trip - as they are too young to be in a strange country without someone to keep an eye on them. It doesn't matter what they do - if he didn't travel they would say he was not representing his country properly -- if She didn't get involved they would say that she was not doing the job of the First Lady - They have lived through this hate with a lot of class - I wonder if they sleep at night knowing how much they are hated by bigotted people who are hate filled and who believe trash about them - and nothing they can do will ever cause people to accept them on the right.

I am not in a position to talk about whether he has made mistakes, but I have watched the news since he was first becoming well known. I watch all three news sources and I have heard his speeches - and then heard Fox lie - and tell people huge untruths about what he said - what he does -- Truth does not matter -- I saw the statements by Right wing members who swore that they would never, allow him to accomplish anything. Those same people are still telling lies and the far right is believing every word. It is more than dislike - or lack of respect for his actions -- it is Hate - and nothing he can ever do will ever be acceptable to them. He was elected as President of the United States which in the past was a position which, even those who disagreed with his Politics was respected - but there is no respect for his position or any of the things he has done.

I believe that in the future he will be remembered as the President who finally grabbed the bull by the horns and who was overwhelmingly disliked by the Republicans who lied and hated, and started a health care program which was desperately needed in the country - It will take years to accomplish what other countries started years ago - but it is a start.

Anyway- the Governments of both our countries and other countries - have problems -- we are in a recession - we are all in debt- it is not the fault of one man -- it is the fault of previous people in power who made the wrong choices because they believed that our countries were invincible. The buck has been passed on and on. Unwarranted wars have been started - wars lik Afghanistan that can never be won, Iraq because one of two Powerful people wanted war and the President went along with it.

Once person is not responsible for the things that are happening - We are all responsible - hatred and constant attacks don't help.

Anyway, that is my opinion. I feel better today as I had withdrawn from the Political discussions but still read them, and I 
decided after some of the more outrageous posts that I would express my opinion. I am not a foreigner on this forum as has been stated. YOu leave yourselves open to other opinions because it is an open forum. If you don't want 'outsiders' and non Americans to express what we see from out side America - then have a private managed section and delete all the posts you don't like.

As long as it is open we can say what we think. I would think that most of us are much less nasty than most of those who post on these forum. I am weary of you on the Right making other members of this forum feel they are unwelcome and being insulted because we watch and have an opinion. - and the hateful nasty personal posts that are posted every day. I often wonder whether even way down deep you feel a bit ashamed. I doubt it.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh stop! You know darned well that fundamentalists do not believe that there will be peace between people if that fairy tale becomes truth. Why are you pretending differently?
> I don't know any Muslim companies and I don't know any Jewish companies, I don't even know any Christian companies.
> Businesses do not have religious beliefs, that matter if before the USSC now.
> Here's hoping that they are rational in their decision. A money making concern is not able to have a belief in God, or not for that matter. Faith and belief are human conditions not derived from money and paperwork, nor from property and commodity.


I actually agree with you here


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Yep. Didn't she get in trouble for sneaking items through customs rather than paying duty?


I think so. But rich people think the law doesn't apply to them.

I don't know whether you knew about Leona Helmsley, the widow of a very wealthy hotel and real estate owner. (She was often called The Queen of Mean.) When the IRS began prosecuting her for tax evasion, her response was something like "I don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." I believe that's the general attitude among the 1%.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I remember reading 'The Diary of Anne Frank' as a child and imagining it all. I still can't understand the horror.


It's unimaginable, but then so was the need for the Underground Railroad saving runaways from their "masters." The things people can do to hurt each other!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> What else would they be?


These days they could be a married couple.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> I agree 1000%. There is no need for the public to have to pay Mrs O's vacation or her daughter's or her mother's! That is just plain ridiculous! She's out to take money away from the very people she is supposedly helping! She's better wake up and smell the roses, because she's not going to get away with this action much longer!


Mrs. Obama is on a good will trip for the US. Are we paying for everyone's trip. I don't know as I am not privy to that information. I'm sure you could google some information and get a pretty good idea of how it works, but I know you would rather spread lies, so of course, don't verify anything. At the same time, be sure to complain when someone prints out some truth about President Bush.


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think so. But rich people think the law doesn't apply to them.
> 
> I don't know whether you knew about Leona Helmsley, the widow of a very wealthy hotel and real estate owner. (She was often called The Queen of Mean.) When the IRS began prosecuting her for tax evasion, her response was something like "I don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." I believe that's the general attitude among the 1%.


Yes, I remember her and she did say exactly that. Also, I believe I read where her entire fortune was left to her cats. I wonder where the money went after the kitties passed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumnerusa said:


> Yes, I remember her and she did say exactly that. Also, I believe I read where her entire fortune was left to her cats. I wonder where the money went after the kitties passed.


It went to their descendants, of course.

Seriously, I'm sure the executors of her will made out like bandits, which they probably were.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh but someone did say she hated the President...it was sometimesaknitter in answer to damemary's post. Here it is....damemary wrote:
But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?

No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?

sometimesaknitter's response:
I can tell you I am not, but you don't believe it. I really don't care. I know what is in my heart and it is love for people unless they don't deserve it because of their actions. The President doesn't deserve or get my respect because he preaches to people about the people not giving enough to make the ACA work but yet golfs all the time (no, other presidents didn't golf as much as he does) and goes on extravagant vacations (no, other presidents nor their wives vacationed as much). He spends money like it doesn't matter and for all his "stimulous" the job market is the poorest it has been in a long time. I had hoped that our first black President would be of the character to bring us together. All he does is tear us apart. That is what he wants because he has no love of this country, doesn't like our National Anthem, really to be truthful he doesn't like us. He hates us and pits us against each other as is evidenced by the pages of opinion put down on these pages, sometimes with the hate no one in years past would have believed.
I know I hate this person because of the content of his character, not the color of his skin. But the people who voted for him want you all to believe that is the reason he is hated by many Americans because they want you to believe there is nothing in his character to hate. Oh but there is so much to dislike about him he reeks of it.


Poor Purl said:


> But nobody actually said "We hate the President,"
> did they?
> 
> What's an A.H.?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Tamarque, reading your post about Israel, really surprises me -- It is obvious that you were not even born when all the things happened during and after the War. They were given a small amount of land - surrounded by those who hated them by the United Nations if remember correctly. I feel now and felt then it was because of the Shame the rest of the world felt about the way they were treated by just about every non Jew in the world at that time. I was young but our family used to have wonderful discussions about what was going on (that we knew about) some information did get out but no one really believed that anyone could treat other human beings that way.
> 
> I read some of the posts by the right wing people on this forum and I get that same sick feeling. There are some who hate him and his family so much that I fear for his life. He needs security .All the Presidents need security -- I would never feel they were overstepping by taking the girls' Grandmother with them on that trip - as they are too young to be in a strange country without someone to keep an eye on them. It doesn't matter what they do - if he didn't travel they would say he was not representing his country properly -- if She didn't get involved they would say that she was not doing the job of the First Lady - They have lived through this hate with a lot of class - I wonder if they sleep at night knowing how much they are hated by bigotted people who are hate filled and who believe trash about them - and nothing they can do will ever cause people to accept them on the right.
> 
> ...


Tamarque replied the following: tamarque wrote:

Excuse me! Now you switch sides and use your own ad hominems when it suits you to play dirty emotional games. Don't interpret me to others. This attempt to demean me says more about your real principles than it says about me.

=========================

The last thing I meant to do was demean you - I just disagree with what you said which is allowed. Even if we are both strongly liberal. My real Principles don't allow me to agree with you - I have that right. Just because we are both on the left doesn't make it written in stone that I agree with everything said here. 
I agree with 90% but I don't agree with your post about Israel.

I haven't switched sides -- I only speak in answer to your thread about 'Poor little Israel" It others don't agree with me that is fine. It just happens that I don't agree with what you said. If those from the right agree with me about Israel, so be it - I express my own opinions from what I learned after the war - and tried to explain the reasons for their feeling of isolation and need to watch their backs. It is the truth as I see it. 
I have a problem with the feelings about Obama -- I also have a problem with their way of expressing themselves. However, they are right they were promised a place of their own -in the Bible - I am definitely a Liberal - always have been - but I can still have a mind of my own. I am not attacking you -- I just don't agree with you.

The problem seems to be that everyone is so "right" - if you don't agree with me that is your right - I just know what I learned from the War - which many people on this thread did not experience. It certainly affected how I feel about Israel - I agree that they are sometimes very aggressive , but I do go back to the fact that if I had experienced my family put in ovens , even when I was older it would affect my thoughts about Israel. I am expressing my opinion. We are not sheep - where the left can never see the other side and the right can never see the other side. We are people who have experienced many things which make us who we are.

I don't like the close minded attacks and the hate against your President - and I never will. I am sorry you took issue with my opinion but that is how I feel. I have said that I admire your posts about Obama and what is happening in the States- however, I do not agree with you about Israel. It means we are two adults who disagree- it is not a personal attack in any way. I was surprised and I said so.

I guess I should not have given my opinion? because I am a left wing Liberal - and I became something else in your opinion?

My reasons for supporting the State of Israel are very different than the right wing conservatives-- I support Israel because of what was done to the Jews by the whole world and the fact that for centuries they have been vilified - to the extent that 6 million of them were killed, along with others who were not 'pure' like the Gypsy's or anyone who was not a true Aryan -- things they had no control over. It was wrong and I felt and still feel that they have every right to a piece of land the size, as someone has said of New Jersey. They are surrounded by hate - and that is a fact -- some of them hate back - and that is a fact.

I was fortunate to spend a lot of time with Jewish friends - and didn't even think about the differences - I know they were an individual people who have been treated badly down through History -- I also knew that they were nearly eliminated in Europe -- they had no place that wanted them - There is still a huge amount of hatred for them which I do not agree with, any more than I agree with the treatment of Obama - and the racism that is still prevalent in the States which is not admitted by those who feel it -- It is a fact.

They are fooling themselves in my opinion. It is my opinion- you have yours and I have mine. I am not going to be made to feel badly about what I feel - and for different reasons it happens that I am not against Israel. Soo- if you think I have become a right winger because of my opinion that is your right. I know what I believe and I know what I support. I am and always will be Liberal - but I can choose other ideas as well. That is the problem there is no middle ground where different people can believe different things but still remain friends.

I have said too much of my feelings on this thread - so will take a break for awhile but I will come back if I wish to and I hope others from around the world will not be driven away by one or two nasty spiteful people because they are liberals and have opinions and questions. I will never believe or agree with what is being said by the Republicans about your President.

I also have my own opinions about what transpired in the war and the results from it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> Oh but someone did say she hated the President...it was sometimesaknitter in answer to damemary's post. Here it is....damemary wrote:
> But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?
> 
> No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?
> ...


Thanks for the catch, I do think that I responded to that post focused on the "content of his character" aspect. 
What a fool tool.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

STUDY: OBAMA MOST WELL-TRAVELED, EXPENSIVE PRESIDENT IN HISTORY THROUGH FIVE YEARS

by MATTHEW BOYLE 23 Mar 2014 (bold font and color emphasis added)

*President Barack Obama has spent more time traveling abroad than other U.S. president in history at this point in their presidencies, according to a forthcoming study from the National Taxpayer Union Foundation (NTUF) provided exclusively to Breitbart News ahead of its public release.*

The most internationally well-traveled President, through five years, is also flying the most expensive-to-operate Air Force One to date, NTUF wrote.

After five years in the White House, Obama has taken 31 trips for a total of 119 days abroad. At that point in George W. Bushs presidency, Bush had taken 28 trips for 116 days, while Bill Clinton had taken 27 trips for 113 days. Ronald Reagan, after five years, had taken 14 trips for 73 days while Richard Nixon had taken 12 trips for 60 days after five years in the White House and Lyndon Johnson took 10 trips for 34 days at the half-decade mark. Dwight Eisenhower took 8 trips for 31 days after five years in the White House.

Citing a recent report in the Washington Examiner that found through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) that taxpayers are on the hook for about $228,288 per Air Force One flight hour in 2013, a 27 percent increase from the previously confirmed cost of $179,750 per fight hour that NTUF used in its last study, *the taxpayer watchdog concludes that Obamas flights have cost taxpayers more than any other president.*

Taken on its own, the $48,535 jump may not sound all that significant, NTUF added about the cost increase for Air Force One. However, when trips are many thousands of miles and span several time zones and continents, the difference can quickly add up.

NTUF estimates that Obamas trip to Europe and the Middle East will likely involve about 29 hours of total travel time, assuming a cruising speed of 575 mph between Washington, Amsterdam, Brussels, Rome, and Riyadh, and then back to D.C. That amount, the group says, is going to cost taxpayers millions of dollars.

Using the previous estimate, the total cost of flying Air Force One between those international cities would be about $5,212,750, NTUF wrote. Using the new data, the cost comes out to $6,620,352.

*NTUF added that those amounts are just estimates, and the actual cost is likely to be higher.* While these figures are approximations, and do not account for the additional (and likely greater) expenses of transporting the Presidents Secret Service and diplomatic entourage, backup aircraft, land vehicles, and advance security teams, it goes to show that higher Air Force One operational costs substantially change the budgetary magnitude of these trips, NTUF wrote.

*The Study:*

Up in the Air: A Study of Presidential Travel and its Uncertain Costs
NTUF Issue Brief #166
By Michael Tasselmyer
June 26, 2013

Introduction

In November 2010, National Taxpayers Union Foundation (NTUF) published a study that detailed how President Barack Obama spent more time abroad than any other U.S. President after two years in office.[1] Since then, President Obama has left the country less frequently, but after a historic trip to Southeast Asia in November 2012, *he still has been officially out of the country more days than all but one other U.S. President in a first term. He has done so by taking more journeys than most previous Chief Executives, even as they are of shorter duration compared to past history.*

Though President Obamas foreign travel slowed in his second, third and fourth years in office, data indicates that Presidents tend to leave the country more often during their second term. With four trips abroad over 18 days through the first six months of 2013, Obama is on pace to set the record for the most travel in a fifth year in office. If that precedent continues, he will be among the most-traveled U.S. Chief Executives in history by the time he leaves office.

NTUF does not dispute the widely-held belief that a vital component of the Presidents duties is to represent our nation in foreign countries. This update to our 2010 research is provided in the interest of fostering rational public discussions over the transparency as well as the costs and benefits of such activity.

see study at: http://www.ntu.org/ntuf/ntuf-ib-166-up-in-the-air.html

*The data and numbers don't lie, but the Libs on this thread sure do. The facts, fellow KPers, just the facts.*


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

damemary said:


> I think Jeb will change his last name to Ruiz and find a smart girl in the binders to satisfy them suffragettes.


LOL... You are so good!


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

You can make fun of me all you want, but, I stick by my words. I can't see that Obama has done a whole lot of good for this country, a lot of harm, yes, but, no good. If you don't agree, then that's your problem. I have just as much right to my opinion as anyone else. Yes, other presidents have made mistakes too, but, Obama is very snotty when he can't get his way, and I think that is the reason most people don't like him. It's his attitude! Mrs. O is just taking advantage of us all and if you can't see that, then there's no hope for you.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

ute4kp said:


> They get a woman's name from the "binders of women". LOL LOL


 :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> Oh but someone did say she hated the President...it was sometimesaknitter in answer to damemary's post. Here it is....damemary wrote:
> But what is the point? Doesn't there have to be SOME reasoning involved in statements?
> 
> No one's racist because he's only half black? He's not really black like he wasn't born in Hawaii (our 50th state?) I feel like I've passed The Twilight Zone. Help?
> ...


Yup, ya got me. There it is in black and ... yellow? eggshell? ecru? Amid all the lies, all the rumors that have been disproved time after time, there's the one nugget of truth in that entire message. Thanks for pointing it out.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> YOu are welcome -- I get tired of those who think these threads are private for their own uses. they don't want outsiders to read the posts. No on on the Left has ever written a post which has sounded as if they don't want others from other places to read i at least I have not read on if they have. Yes they fight too and sometimes not pleasantly - but they post facts, not lies and I have checked them out.
> 
> I believe that way down deep they are embarrassed at the things they are saying and they don't want outsiders or 'foreigners' to know what they really are like.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> You cannot possibly know that. Your tone is condescending and you are putting forward gossip as fact. As we tell so many others, put up the proof, show us the links. I want to see the reliable sources.


Re Tamarque: She seems like a good scholar but without a heart. I majored in Marxist theory for my first MA and met a lot of Tamarques. They are doctrinaire. They make good syntheses about the underpinnings of capitalism but they do not seem to understand that Israel is an emotional issue for many of us and an undebatable one. (Plus they were no fun.) I could not embrace the proletariat as was required being ever so slothful, so I consider myself a failed Marxist. But Israel understands that Jews have no friends and when the US decides that oil is more important than Jews, what will the Tamarques do at that point?


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Hobby Lobby is a Christian company, well the owners anyway. They are considering closing down rather than provide health insurance that provides contraception.


Janet Cooke said:


> Oh stop! You know darned well that fundamentalists do not believe that there will be peace between people if that fairy tale becomes truth. Why are you pretending differently?
> I don't know any Muslim companies and I don't know any Jewish companies, I don't even know any Christian companies.
> Businesses do not have religious beliefs, that matter if before the USSC now.
> Here's hoping that they are rational in their decision. A money making concern is not able to have a belief in God, or not for that matter. Faith and belief are human conditions not derived from money and paperwork, nor from property and commodity.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janeway said:


> Why are you the police of her opinion? Sounds as if you are the only "right" one! Oh, my are you a Republican?


No I am not... I was commenting on her hatred and I think I am RIGHT in saying what she wrote was hatred... I think you may have misinterpreted both of the messages.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's unimaginable, but then so was the need for the Underground Railroad saving runaways from their "masters." The things people can do to hurt each other!


And how these hurts reverberate for generations.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I thank you damemary -- I would not want to walk a mile in her shoes. I am quite content to be a Canadian. Always have been and always will be. However, I am really interested in US Politics, what is happening there, how it affects my country and also the fact that I have many many friends there on both sides of the Political spectrum. I don't hide my beliefs - and never have.
> 
> We 'foreigners' have every right to post on these threads. They are open forums, not managed sites where you can delete those whose posts you don't want.
> 
> ...


The true voice of reason... Thank you for your post.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

mamasbird said:


> You can make fun of me all you want, but, I stick by my words. I can't see that Obama has done a whole lot of good for this country, a lot of harm, yes, but, no good. If you don't agree, then that's your problem. I have just as much right to my opinion as anyone else. Yes, other presidents have made mistakes too, but, Obama is very snotty when he can't get his way, and I think that is the reason most people don't like him. It's his attitude! Mrs. O is just taking advantage of us all and if you can't see that, then there's no hope for you.


As the saying goes "you have a right to your own opinion, you do not have a right to your own facts" since you don't have any to back up your opinion the things you state are worthless and are nasty lies. 
So long as you insist on posting those lies there will be people around who will be sure to note them and make others aware that you are lying.

http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php

http://bcgavel.com/2012/08/03/president-obamas-top-10-accomplishments/

http://planetpov.com/2011/02/13/a-short-list-of-pres-obamas-accomplishments/

Am I, or do I expect anyone else to be, happy about all of the president's initiatives? Of course not, that does not mean that he has not done things. 
You lost, live with it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> Hobby Lobby is a Christian company, well the owners anyway. They are considering closing down rather than provide health insurance that provides contraception.


Is this the second bit of good news I am receiving today even before I finish my first cup of coffee?


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Yup, ya got me. There it is in black and ... yellow? eggshell? ecru? Amid all the lies, all the rumors that have been disproved time after time, there's the one nugget of truth in that entire message. Thanks for pointing it out.


What I can't figure out is why they think he hates the US? Why would someone spend his whole life to become President because he hates a country? Do they really say things like that on Fox News...Where in the world does some of this rubbish come from? I just have such a hard time understanding people that believe in this kind of nonsense. I saw someone had posted about him not having a US Birth Certificate... For crying out loud that was a long ago disproved rumor! It's crazy what people will believe!


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> As the saying goes "you have a right to your own opinion, you do not have a right to your own facts" since you don't have any to back up your opinion the things you state are worthless and are nasty lies.
> So long as you insist on posting those lies there will be people around who will be sure to note them and make others aware that you are lying.


She thinks he's snotty when he doesn't get his way? I guess he should be be dancing and laughing it off when again comes up against the brick wall of the "Other" Party.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

mamasbird said:


> You can make fun of me all you want, but, I stick by my words. I can't see that Obama has done a whole lot of good for this country, a lot of harm, yes, but, no good. If you don't agree, then that's your problem. I have just as much right to my opinion as anyone else. Yes, other presidents have made mistakes too, but, Obama is very snotty when he can't get his way, and I think that is the reason most people don't like him. It's his attitude! Mrs. O is just taking advantage of us all and if you can't see that, then there's no hope for you.


I guess instead of being "Snotty" as you say he needs to be laughing it off.. I see him as being very dignified actually a little too stiff sometimes... You need to watch a different news channel that doesn't have a 2 second tape showing him scowling at something that had nothing at all to do with what was being reported. But I have a feeling there is nothing he could do that would make you happy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

AH ash hole?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



cialea said:


> LOL... You are so good!


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## mamasbird (Jun 5, 2013)

You know no matter what I say, you are going to argue so why am I wasting my time? You have your opinion of 'O' and I have mine, so lets leave it at that and stop the bashing. I will not answer any more of your BS.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for this information. I've learned a lot. I'm afraid I was beginning to believe that nothing was happening. Thanks for the inspiration.



Janet Cooke said:


> As the saying goes "you have a right to your own opinion, you do not have a right to your own facts" since you don't have any to back up your opinion the things you state are worthless and are nasty lies.
> So long as you insist on posting those lies there will be people around who will be sure to note them and make others aware that you are lying.
> 
> http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cialea said:


> What I can't figure out is why they think he hates the US? Why would someone spend his whole life to become President because he hates a country? Do they really say things like that on Fox News...Where in the world does some of this rubbish come from? I just have such a hard time understanding people that believe in this kind of nonsense. I saw someone had posted about him not having a US Birth Certificate... For crying out loud that was a long ago disproved rumor! It's crazy what people will believe!


Yes it's crazy. But I keep asking myself WHY.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cialea said:


> What I can't figure out is why they think he hates the US? Why would someone spend his whole life to become President because he hates a country? Do they really say things like that on Fox News...Where in the world does some of this rubbish come from? I just have such a hard time understanding people that believe in this kind of nonsense. I saw someone had posted about him not having a US Birth Certificate... For crying out loud that was a long ago disproved rumor! It's crazy what people will believe!


When Glenn Beck was on Fox, he would say that Obama hates white people, which in some "minds" would imply that he hates America. Nothing they say holds together, and a lot of it is made up. From the day this man won the Democratic candidacy, they've been after him and his family.

I think you need to ignore fact and logic to believe all this stuff.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> And how these hurts reverberate for generations.


That is why I support the Country of Israel -- it explains it in very few words.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cialea said:


> What I can't figure out is why they think he hates the US? Why would someone spend his whole life to become President because he hates a country? Do they really say things like that on Fox News...Where in the world does some of this rubbish come from? I just have such a hard time understanding people that believe in this kind of nonsense. I saw someone had posted about him not having a US Birth Certificate... For crying out loud that was a long ago disproved rumor! It's crazy what people will believe!


I believe that they believe this because they don't understand how anyone can love what they consider a nation going in the wrong direction. 
While most of us love this country right or wrong and simply want to work to make it better, those folks hate what they have been fed is happening and they cannot separate the two, IMO, so they hate this and that is why they think others can.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sheesh, bad enough when a double post is put up, REALLY bad when it is a double post of nothing.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> They are considering closing down rather than provide health insurance that provides contraception.


Your statement regarding Hobby Lobby is not true. The company has been self-insuring their employees, who they pay nearly double the minimum wage for starting earnings, for years, along with providing insurance that covers contraception.

The company owners simply do not wish to pay for four (out of 20) drugs that they believe encourages/procures an abortion.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your statement is not true.


That has been reported, have you talked to the Green family? How do you know it isn't true? How do you know they are not considering it?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That has been reported, have you talked to the Green family? How do you know it isn't true? How do you know they are not considering it?


You have no interest in providing the truth.

Tell me, no, show me, how YOU know the facts. (You won't because you don't.)

You are not speaking the truth about Hobby Lobby either.

If you wish to know the facts trying listening to the arguments of the lawyers, the company, and what was argued at the Supreme Court and released.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

mamasbird said:


> You know no matter what I say, you are going to argue so why am I wasting my time? You have your opinion of 'O' and I have mine, so lets leave it at that and stop the bashing. I will not answer any more of your BS.


Good call. The Libs do as you suggest on every thread they hijack and ruin, this one included.

That is all they know.

BTW; love your avatar!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have no interest in providing the truth.
> 
> Tell me, no, show me, how YOU know the facts.
> 
> You are not speaking the truth about Hobby Lobby.


I did not say that I know the facts, I said that YOU don't unless you can explain some way that you do know more than the rest about what the Green family is thinking, planning, considering. 
That is what the poster you responded to said. She said that the Green family is CONSIDERING closing the chain. 
I asked how you know that they are not considering that when you posted that they are not. (before you edited your post) 
I still ask how you know that they are not considering that?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I did not say that I know the facts, I said that YOU don't unless you can explain some way that you do know more than the rest about what the Green family is thinking, planning, considering.
> That is what the poster you responded to said. She said that the Green family is CONSIDERING closing the chain.
> I asked how you know that they are not considering that when you posted that they are not. (before you edited your post)
> I still ask how you know that they are not considering that?


I heard some from the lawyers and owners of Hobby Lobby and read some of the outlined briefs of the case. Have you? I doubt it.

I know what I know because I listen, read and learn. 
Something you don't do or don't apply nor comprehend what you read or learn IF you do.

You don't even truthfully state what Knovice Knitter wrote. She said HL was thinking about closing their doors because they don't want to provide contraception within their insurance benefit to their employees. That is a LIE.

They HAVE been providing contraception coverage within their insurance for YEARS.

I don't work for nor respect you and do not answer to your demands. I edit my post for typos and clarity immediately after I hit the send button. If that isn't good enough for you, tough!

Get a clue and your head out of the sand and read something and listen to someone other than the idiots who are on MSNBC and write for The Daily Kos, and while you're at it, stop your lying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I heard some from the lawyers and owners of Hobby Lobby and read some of the outlined briefs of the case. Have you? I doubt it.
> 
> I know what I know because I listen, read and learn.
> Something you don't do or don't apply nor comprehend what you read or learn IF you do.
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I heard some from the lawyers and owners of Hobby Lobby and read some of the outlined briefs of the case. Have you? I doubt it.
> 
> I know what I know because I listen, read and learn.
> Something you don't do or don't apply nor comprehend what you read or learn IF you do.
> ...


In other words, you know exactly what everyone else outside the family knows, and that is what is for public consumption. 
What the family is CONSIDERING is as much a mystery to you as it is to anyone else. 
As usual you want people to think that you know insider information, you want people to think that you know something, the truth is that you know what you see on the boob tube.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> In other words, you know exactly what everyone else outside the family knows, and that is what is for public consumption.
> What the family is CONSIDERING is as much a mystery to you as it is to anyone else.
> As usual you want people to think that you know insider information, you want people to think that you know something, the truth is that you know what you see on the boob tube.


The truth is you know nothing and just like running your mouth to express your OPINION.

I think the briefs and words of the owners and lawyers and the arguments filed and spoken before the Supreme Court are pretty good evidence on the FACTS of the case.

This case didn't just begin yesterday, and the concerns and facts of the case have been and are available for you to research and consume. I've never put forth I have "insider info" as you suggest; I deal with the facts and logic.

Something that regularly escapes your notice; facts and logic.

Keep on with your propaganda, it suits your tastes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is this the second bit of good news I am receiving today even before I finish my first cup of coffee?


Here's one after the coffee. It's time for me to unwatch. My appetite has been spoiled.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Janet -- So where are they to buy their inventory? The US has had over 55 million abortions. So with your way of thinking they should not be buying from anyone in the USA, either.


She'll not answer you Joey. She is, once again, backed into a corner, with the truth and facts that she cannot refute of justify with more of her opinion and lies, so, naturally, she has logged off.

She'll only post when no one is around to challenge her lies.

Typical.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She'll not answer you Joey. She is, once again, backed into a corner, with the truth and facts that she cannot refute of justify with more of her opinion and lies, so, naturally, she has logged off.
> 
> She'll only post when no one is around to challenge her lies.
> 
> Typical.


There is no corner. I didn't express an opinion on this thread, I asked a question. It is apparently a question that you cannot or will not answer. Thanks for playing.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Cooke for posting that poster about Helly-Lobby. Even I could read it without my classes. And if that is not clear enough for HL supporters I do not know what is. Has anyone on the right addressed this allegedly inconsistency in HL's position?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thanks Cooke for posting that poster about Helly-Lobby. Even I could read it without my classes. And if that is not clear enough for HL supporters I do not know what is. Has anyone on the right addressed this allegedly inconsistency in HL's position?


Only the Wackadoodle in Chief, now you have great insights. 
Could you explain to me why she could possibly think that it matters to me whether she respects me?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Only the Wackadoodle in Chief, now you have great insights.
> Could you explain to me why she could possibly think that it matters to me whether she respects me?


Maybe we should follow The Purl's suggestion and unwatch. It is time this thread dies. If you do, so will I.

By the way, just read that the idiot head of North Korea is mandating that all men in North Korea wear his exact haircut. Netanyahu hasn't done that yet.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Janet -- So where are they to buy their inventory? The US has had over 55 million abortions. So with your way of thinking they should not be buying from anyone in the USA, either.


They have grown from a family who only had $600. to start a company to a family of multi-billionaires. 
If they really cared about the abortion issue they could invest their own money in manufacturing rather than supporting a nation that REQUIRES abortions. 
Surely even you can see the difference between saying that people have a right to have an embryo removal and requiring that people terminate pregnancies and fining people millions of dollars for not following that dictum.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You still didn't answer the question.


Unlike your leader I don't pretend to know what motivates the Green family.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Maybe we should follow The Purl's suggestion and unwatch. It is time this thread dies. If you do, so will I.
> 
> By the way, just read that the idiot head of North Korea is mandating that all men in North Korea wear his exact haircut. Netanyahu hasn't done that yet.


Yes, I heard that, too.


----------



## djones5252 (May 6, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Never assume :XD:


I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

djones5252 said:


> I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


Every time they go on a trip certain "news" organizations start in on that. 
I am not sure why it surprises anyone.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> There is no corner. I didn't express an opinion on this thread, I asked a question. It is apparently a question that you cannot or will not answer. Thanks for playing.


You expressed your opinion by telling me Knovice Knitter was correct and I was not. You implied your opinion by posting a propaganda image of what you believe is the facts of the HL case; it is not true.

I answered all your ridiculous questions that don't deserve an answer. Thanks for playing the fool so well as always.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You still didn't answer the question.


She never does because she has no answers or facts nor the intellectual ability to do so.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> They have grown from a family who only had $600. to start a company to a family of multi-billionaires.
> If they really cared about the abortion issue they could invest their own money in manufacturing rather than supporting a nation that REQUIRES abortions.
> Surely even you can see the difference between saying that people have a right to have an embryo removal and requiring that people terminate pregnancies and fining people millions of dollars for not following that dictum.


When you take $600 of your OWN money and turn it into a business and make yourself a multi-billionaire (your words), than you can make the decisions for YOUR OWN company as long as you follow the present laws of our country.

Otherwise, keep your nose out of other's business of which you know nothing about.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Unlike your leader I don't pretend to know what motivates the Green family.


Unlike you and your Lib buds, the members of KP do not have a leader nor do they follow each other around like little sheep who cannot think for themselves.

Isn't it about time for you to direct "your crew" to another thread where you can all bitch and whine about those with whom you do not agree so you'll insult and defame them instead and meanwhile ruin yet another thread?

Yes, I think it is.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Unlike you and your Lib buds, the members of KP do not have a leader nor do they follow each other around like little puppies or sheep who cannot think for themselves.
> 
> Isn't it about time for you to direct "your crew" to another thread where you can all bitch and whine about those who you all like to insult and ruin yet another thread?
> 
> Yes, I think it is.


Carrying that mirror, are you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Carrying that mirror, are you?


As I said ... Greenberger and Gould, Dorothy, Toto, etc., are all waiting for you.

Oh, good, I see you've got your crew to leave exactly as I predicted.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

djones5252 said:


> I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


Which "News"?
Please don't post things unless you can give a source...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

cialea said:


> Which "News"?
> Please don't post things unless you can give a source...


I posted a study and many of the facts and data was included. It is upon you to read it. It describes which President traveled where, for how long, and the cost to the USA taxpayers.

Please, where is your source to refute what I posted and to prove what you claim to be true? Or are you simply posting your biased opinion?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cialea said:


> Which "News"?
> Please don't post things unless you can give a source...


Probably stories like this, cialea, that have nothing to do with fact.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572615/Michelle-Obama-plans-pricey-trip-China-First-Family-criticized-spending-hundreds-millions-dollars-traveling-taxpayers-dime.html


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> When Glenn Beck was on Fox, he would say that Obama hates white people, which in some "minds" would imply that he hates America. Nothing they say holds together, and a lot of it is made up. From the day this man won the Democratic candidacy, they've been after him and his family.
> 
> I think you need to ignore fact and logic to believe all this stuff.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I believe that they believe this because they don't understand how anyone can love what they consider a nation going in the wrong direction.
> While most of us love this country right or wrong and simply want to work to make it better, those folks hate what they have been fed is happening and they cannot separate the two, IMO, so they hate this and that is why they think others can.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, it's pretty stinky around here. What happened?



Poor Purl said:


> Here's one after the coffee. It's time for me to unwatch. My appetite has been spoiled.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No. I haven't seen it. Why are Women's Health Services objectionable for HL employees to choose, when they do business routinely with vendors in China when China has an abysmal track record with human rights including forced abortion and sterilization?



SQM said:


> Thanks Cooke for posting that poster about Helly-Lobby. Even I could read it without my classes. And if that is not clear enough for HL supporters I do not know what is. Has anyone on the right addressed this allegedly inconsistency in HL's position?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She just likes to yap.



Janet Cooke said:


> Only the Wackadoodle in Chief, now you have great insights.
> Could you explain to me why she could possibly think that it matters to me whether she respects me?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Which haircut? I can think of 3 possible areas.



SQM said:


> Maybe we should follow The Purl's suggestion and unwatch. It is time this thread dies. If you do, so will I.
> 
> By the way, just read that the idiot head of North Korea is mandating that all men in North Korea wear his exact haircut. Netanyahu hasn't done that yet.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Yeah, it's pretty stinky around here. What happened?


Janet Cooke and Pearl and other Libs said they would leave this thread, and, naturally, 45 mins later Janet posted again and now here you are.

Nothing unusual, just the Libs doing what they always do; insult others and ruin threads with their lies.

If you don't like the "smells" change yourselves.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janet Cooke and Pearl and other Libs said they would leave this thread, and, naturally, 45 mins later Janet posted again and now here you are.
> 
> Nothing unusual, just the Libs doing what they always do; insult others and ruin threads with their lies.
> 
> If you don't like the "smells" change yourselves.


Hi KGB,

Nice seeing you in a new area. Should Mrs. Robinson be allowed to travel with her family at her own expense? That is the topic of this thread. What do you think?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

djones5252 said:


> I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


Welcome as new facts are given, but the Democrats on this thread won't believe anything about the Obo's. Thank you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> You know no matter what I say, you are going to argue so why am I wasting my time? You have your opinion of 'O' and I have mine, so lets leave it at that and stop the bashing. I will not answer any more of your BS.


Don't go away, these Lefties are just bad mouthing everyone who does not like the Obo's. They don't do any crafts but have found KP & some were banned & they return with a new name & email to bash us again!


----------



## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

"Breitbart.com has come up with a justification for its ill-advised, standards-defying story on the vacation plans of the president's daughters: The trip cost more than zero dollars. The feeble rationalization shouldn't surprise anyone. It's by Matthew Boyle, the Murrow-wannabe at the center of nearly every recent embarrassment in the conservative media."

This from: http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/03/breitbart-turns-its-reporting-apparatus-vacationing-obama-girls/63595/



knitpresentgifts said:


> STUDY: OBAMA MOST WELL-TRAVELED, EXPENSIVE PRESIDENT IN HISTORY THROUGH FIVE YEARS
> 
> by MATTHEW BOYLE 23 Mar 2014 (bold font and color emphasis added)
> 
> ...


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Don't go away, these Lefties are just bad mouthing everyone who does not like the Obo's. They don't do any crafts but have found KP & some were banned & they return with a new name & email to bash us again!


What an amazing theory you just presented. Secretly, I wonder if my friends here are really fiber crafters. Maybe they just stumbled in to be annoying. Jane Way, when we get tomorrow's digest, would you check to see if the Lefties post on main or in Pictures? Thanks.

Then I will throw a coming-out party when we detect the "liars".

But wait ! I cannot attend and certainly not host, as I do knit, albeit erratically, so I must decline my own invitation. So Janeeeeee, you will have to be there and most likely all alone. Ha Ha


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Don't go away, these Lefties are just bad mouthing everyone who does not like the Obo's. They don't do any crafts but have found KP & some were banned & they return with a new name & email to bash us again!


I don't do any crafts??? Janeway Janeway -- check out the workshop section. we are at #53 and I organized every one.

I have even acknowledged your quilting on pictures-- So why don't you start telling it the way it is -- not the way you imagine it to be - if you can't find something nasty to say you make something up. Some of the people on both sides of these 'talks' have taken the workshops and all are welcome.
I average about 30 hours a week on crafts. Also check out the other crafts and read 'my lifetime of work' . You will likely say all my work was done by others -- sorry - that ain't the truth.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> "Breitbart.com has come up with a justification for its ill-advised, standards-defying story on the vacation plans of the president's daughters: The trip cost more than zero dollars. The feeble rationalization shouldn't surprise anyone. It's by Matthew Boyle, the Murrow-wannabe at the center of nearly every recent embarrassment in the conservative media."


How weak and utterly pathetic . :-D In fact, your post is downright embarrassing for you.

Breitbart didn't perform the study; *NTUF DID*. The opinion of the Boyle means nothing as does your opinion.

That's OK; Libs don't understand or comprehend facts anyway so will try to justify their own lies as the desperate Dems are doing presently.

As I said prior, *the data and facts of the STUDY, don't lie; just the Libs and Dems do.*


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How weak and utterly pathetic of you. :-D Breitbart didn't perform the study; *NTUF DID*. The opinion of the reporter means nothing as does your opinion.
> 
> That's OK; Libs don't understand or comprehend facts anyway so will try to justify their own lies as the desperate Dems are doing presently.
> *the data and facts of the STUDY, don't lie; just the Libs and Dems do.*


Is it possible in the future that you make your point without the anger? Your message would be very powerful, but presently it is hard to find among your barbs. Your ideas are strong enough not to need the put downs. Have confidence, Breathe, Post!


----------



## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

djones5252 said:


> I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


If you can't say where you heard this or who said this, then it adds nothing to an informed discussion. The first thing one should ask about what you are hearing or reading is how reliable is the source, and what are the motives. Fox News does not qualify for unbiased news. Fox News entertains, it does not inform.

Everything posted on these 80 plus pages was instigated by a statement that had no factual back-up in the first place: "As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China."


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Is it possible in the future that you make your point without the anger? Your message would be very powerful, but presently it is hard to find among your barbs. Your ideas are strong enough not to need the put downs. Have confidence, Breathe, Post!


The thing is, SQM, that poster has no point to make in relation to the thread. 
That site that she provided has no connection to the First Families trip to China. It doesn't have any facts that are not annotated as from other sites.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> The thing is, SQM, that poster has no point to make in relation to the thread.
> That site that she provided has no connection to the First Families trip to China. It doesn't have any facts that are not annotated as from other sites.


Here you are again when you promised us all you'd stay away. Are you *ever* good for your word? NOPE.

Try reading the study I posted as it DISCUSSES the very topic of this thread that has gone on for pages and pages of BS and no facts, just liberal interpretations, lies and opinions by Libs.

How dumb is anyone that cannot understand that the study explains who/what/where/when/why and how Presidential trips transpire? Don't bother answering as I already know you cannot.

BTW: You probably haven't bothered to answer the OP's question and certainly provided no facts to refute or agree with her either. I have, and will again.

Yes, I agree with the OP.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I can't hhhhheeeeaaaarrrrr you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I can't hhhhheeeeaaaarrrrr you.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Just because you are hard of hearing, doesn't mean you aren't capable of researching, reading and using your brain.

Try it - you might just learn something.

BTW: You read my _every_ word regardless of what you post. Everyone, including me knows it as well.


----------



## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How weak and utterly pathetic of you. :-D In fact, your post is downright embarrassing for you.
> 
> Breitbart didn't perform the study; *NTUF DID*. The opinion of the Boyle means nothing as does your opinion.
> 
> ...


Please note that the quote I used does not say Breitbart performed the study. Breitbart.com published the story written by Matthew Boyle, who used the statistics. I wanted to find out the qualifications of Matthew Boyle, and I read that he is not very much respected for informed writing.

Comparing the number of trips taken by the past Presidents has no purpose because each one served in his respective time frame. The article implies that trips equal vacations. This is a fine example of manufacturing an issue to manipulate opinion.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> Please note that the quote I used does not say Breitbart performed the study. Breitbart.com published the story written by Matthew Boyle, who used the statistics. I wanted to find out the qualifications of Matthew Boyle, and I read that he is not very much respected for informed writing.
> 
> Comparing the number of trips taken by the past Presidents has no purpose because each one served in his respective time frame. The article implies that trips equal vacations. This is a fine example of manufacturing an issue to manipulate opinion.


You are completely wrong. The study explained how the trips are paid for, who pays, how the costs are calculated or estimated, etc.

Boyle did nothing more than summarize a tiny part of the study and wrote about it in an editorial because Breitbart had exclusive
access to the study before it was released to the rest of the press.

You looked into the journalist but not the study which is obvious in your words. The study, had you read it, prorates the travel as compared to each president in his time/terms in office. The journalist also mentioned the prorated timetables in his editorial. The study was extensive and discussed more presidents than simply Bush vs. Obama on the very topic being discussed on this thread

Boyle is a journalist who must write a headline; he did and it said the Obama is the most traveled and most expansive and will be the most expensive President in regards to paying for his travel. Boyle retrieved that info from the study.

Boyle's article implies nothing but what YOU choose to believe it implied which is your poor example of manipulating your opinions and ignoring the study, the data, facts and the truth.

Why didn't you spend your time considering and reviewing the study which is the point of this discussion rather than attempting to defame a journalist? What is the purpose of slamming the journalist and ignoring the very study that Boyle summarized properly. Then you expect other posters to post sources, data and facts.

Your actions show me you are only interested in defaming the journalist and ignoring the truth, facts and data. You add nothing informed or reasonable to the discussion. You commented only on the journalist, not the study or facts.

Try fooling some else because you're not fooling me. Chicago style politics; you've got them down pat.


----------



## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are completely wrong. The study explained how the trips are paid for, who pays, how the costs are calculated or estimated, etc.
> 
> Boyle did nothing more than summarize a tiny part of the study and wrote about it in an editorial because Breitbart had exclusive
> access to the study before it was released to the rest of the press.
> ...


I was surprised to read this calm, well-reasoned reply, which is in much contrast to your previous posts. I will have more respect for your future posts if you can continue to concentrate on facts, and leave off the name calling.

I admit that I did not read the details of the article. I saw no point in the statistics, and I still don't. Everything is more expensive these days, including the cost of travel. Being President of the United States is a huge, huge responsibility, and I can't see that bringing up the cost of international travel has much to do with how President Obama is carrying out his duties.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> I was surprised to read this calm, well-reasoned reply, which is in much contrast to your previous posts. I will have more respect for your future posts if you can continue to concentrate on facts, and leave off the name calling.
> 
> I admit that I did not read the details of the article. I saw no point in the statistics, and I still don't. Everything is more expensive these days, including the cost of travel. Being President of the United States is a huge, huge responsibility, and I can't see that bringing up the cost of international travel has much to do with how President Obama is carrying out his duties.


Oh, wow. I'm so happy that I've pleased you and your arrogant and condescending superior attitude. Thank you for adding absolutely zero to the conversation and showing your true colors and purpose which is to defame Conservatives or anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions.

Asking others to add meaningful discourse to the conversation and providing facts and sources that you, just admitted, you ignore is laughable and despicable.

I'll not bother wasting my time responding to you again, no matter how politely you ask me to.

Enjoy your attitude, you wear it well.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> I was surprised to read this calm, well-reasoned reply, which is in much contrast to your previous posts. I will have more respect for your future posts if you can continue to concentrate on facts, and leave off the name calling.
> 
> I admit that I did not read the details of the article. I saw no point in the statistics, and I still don't. Everything is more expensive these days, including the cost of travel. Being President of the United States is a huge, huge responsibility, and I can't see that bringing up the cost of international travel has much to do with how President Obama is carrying out his duties.


Don't pay any attention to her, Jeanne, she is just plain nasty to anyone who doesn't massage her tootsies.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

HAHAHAHAHAA

You two are so predictable! I told Jeannne she didn't bother to even review the study even though she attempted to argue against it and told another poster to provide sources and facts in order to participate meaningfully in this thread.

Then you chime in with your typical slam which is meaningless after everyone knows you, Janet, demand the same of others.

You two are so simple and useless to the conversation if you cannot logically speak to the topic at hand. 

Carry on and enjoy yourselves. Let me know if you want to play with the best and brightest in the big leagues and when you feel capable of meaningful discussion.

Otherwise, please refrain from responding to me as you have often suggested you would in the past (Janet).


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> HAHAHAHAHAA
> 
> You two are so predictable! I told Jeannne she didn't bother to even review the study even though she attempted to argue against it and told another poster to provide sources and facts in order to participate meaningfully in this thread.
> 
> ...


You forgot to check your posting for perfection.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You forgot to check your posting for perfection.


Still editing; lighten up will ya and stop hanging on my every word. Figure out something useful to do with your life instead of attacking and insulting every single person on KP.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

Jeannne said:


> "Breitbart.com has come up with a justification for its ill-advised, standards-defying story on the vacation plans of the president's daughters: The trip cost more than zero dollars. The feeble rationalization shouldn't surprise anyone. It's by Matthew Boyle, the Murrow-wannabe at the center of nearly every recent embarrassment in the conservative media."
> 
> This from: http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/03/breitbart-turns-its-reporting-apparatus-vacationing-obama-girls/63595/


So Obama traveled 3 more days abroad than Bush, but the reason for all the hoopla concerning Obama, is due to inflation, his trips cost more? Really? Considering that Bush rarely left his ranch, unless he was traveling all over the country fund raising, I'm surprised there is only a 3 day discrepancy over 5 years. I notice this article doesn't mention that lst lady Bush traveled far more than any other lst lady and their daughters also traveled extensively, with her and alone. Does anyone recall reading articles about the cost of their trips? lst families pay their own personal expenses on these trips. The government requires and pays for their secure travel. The presidents have nothing to do with that. I still, just can't understand why the Obamas travel is such a big issue, when no other lst families' travel has been an issue before. I have missed most of the 2nd half of this thread, thank God. It seems to have turned extremely nasty, so I am done here. It seems hatred and prejudice are alive and well and some people like it that way and will never change. Just don't call yourselves Christians, because that is not what a Christian is. Just ask yourselves, "What would Jesus do."


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The question was where would they buy their products if you think they should not buy them from a country that provides abortions?


Nope, that is not THE question, that is your question. THE question is why so many of the religious folks backing up Hobby Lobby in this bit of smoke and mirrors of moral hypocrisy don't admit that?
Why does the ownership team at Hobby Lobby happily supply Communists with money to pay for abortions that they force upon citizens of China and not want to pay for people who live here in the US to take forms of birth control that may prevent a complete process of fertilization?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sumnerusa said:


> Yes, I remember her and she did say exactly that. Also, I believe I read where her entire fortune was left to her cats. I wonder where the money went after the kitties passed.


Martha Stewart also made some comment about the "little people" and then quickly added,"but we're all little people." Don't think she really believes that.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You have a double standard. Both countries provide abortions. Hobby Lobby wants no part of any possibility of an abortion.
> 
> You refused to answer my question, then you complain when others do not answer yours. another double standard.


I could care less if anyone answers it. 
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's there, the elephant (punny reference intended) in the room


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Please could someone show me what company does not buy goods from China?

If you can I might want to go there and shop.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cialea said:


> What I can't figure out is why they think he hates the US? Why would someone spend his whole life to become President because he hates a country? Do they really say things like that on Fox News...Where in the world does some of this rubbish come from? I just have such a hard time understanding people that believe in this kind of nonsense. I saw someone had posted about him not having a US Birth Certificate... For crying out loud that was a long ago disproved rumor! It's crazy what people will believe!


I agree, it is hard to understand. Never before has a president been accused of hating this country. The first black president and all of a sudden all this hate. 
Now Fox and the right is having a fit because signing up for healthcare has been extended for two weeks. Why are those on the right so against people having healthcare? GB extended the sign up for Medicare Part D, but I don't remember hearing anyone complain about that.

In May of 2006, just days before the end of open enrollment, President Bush took administrative action towaive penalty fees for very low-income seniors and people with disabilities who sign up late and allowed the same impoverished beneficiaries to sign up for Medicare drug coverage until Dec. 31.

The word that comes to mind is hypocrite.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

mamasbird said:


> You know no matter what I say, you are going to argue so why am I wasting my time? You have your opinion of 'O' and I have mine, so lets leave it at that and stop the bashing. I will not answer any more of your BS.


I think when you make statements like:

Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion

that you should be able to back it up with a link to where you got your information. You loose all credibility with statements like that with no proof.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> As the saying goes "you have a right to your own opinion, you do not have a right to your own facts" since you don't have any to back up your opinion the things you state are worthless and are nasty lies.
> So long as you insist on posting those lies there will be people around who will be sure to note them and make others aware that you are lying.
> 
> http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments/
> ...


Thank you for this information. We hear so much about how awful the president is and how he does nothing, it is nice to see it all listed.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> They have grown from a family who only had $600. to start a company to a family of multi-billionaires.
> If they really cared about the abortion issue they could invest their own money in manufacturing rather than supporting a nation that REQUIRES abortions.
> Surely even you can see the difference between saying that people have a right to have an embryo removal and requiring that people terminate pregnancies and fining people millions of dollars for not following that dictum.


Yes it seems to be a bit hypocritical to want to push your personal religious beliefs onto your employees, but still be willing to make their billions selling products made in China.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

djones5252 said:


> I heard and saw on the news that tax payers (us in the USA) DID pay for Mrs. Obama, the girls, and the MIL, as well as the entourage who went with them. I can't remember the price quoted, but it was tremendous.


Mrs Obama has traveled to 11 countries in her first 4 years for a total of 55 days, while Laura Bush traveled to 17 in her first 4 years for a total of 77 days. Laura Bush traveled to a total of 46 countries in her 8 years as first lady for a total of 212 days. Michelle Obama is at 14 after 5 years so now you can debate if she will catch her or not. 
Do you realize how silly fussing about this kind of crap is? Every first lady and every president has traveled and will travel. I just don't understand why the right takes so much pleasure in trying to make our current first family look bad and always fail so badly at it.

http://www.ntu.org/governmentbytes/7-9-13-first-lady-international-flights-vacations.html


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> No. I haven't seen it. Why are Women's Health Services objectionable for HL employees to choose, when they do business routinely with vendors in China when China has an abysmal track record with human rights including forced abortion and sterilization?


Because it is easy to overlook things when you are making billions off of it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is it possible in the future that you make your point without the anger? Your message would be very powerful, but presently it is hard to find among your barbs. Your ideas are strong enough not to need the put downs. Have confidence, Breathe, Post!


I find it easier to just scroll past whatever she posts. There is never anything worthwhile there anyway, except anger.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nope, that is not THE question, that is your question. THE question is why so many of the religious folks backing up Hobby Lobby in this bit of smoke and mirrors of moral hypocrisy don't admit that?
> Why does the ownership team at Hobby Lobby happily supply Communists with money to pay for abortions that they force upon citizens of China and not want to pay for people who live here in the US to take forms of birth control that may prevent a complete process of fertilization?


Very good question Janet, but they won't answer it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How are they pushing personal beliefs on their employees?
> 
> Their employees are free to use whatever medical procedures they want to use. Only Hobby Lobby refuses to pay for any that may cause the death of a baby (it is only 4 pills).
> 
> What is so difficult to understand?


Because it is not their right to say, I will provide healthcare to you as my employee, but my religion will control what it will provide, even though that may not be your religion.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Because it is not their right to say, I will provide healthcare to you as my employee, but my religion will control what it will provide, even though that may not be your religion.


What a totally ridiculous and foolish answer.

Good thing you don't own nor operate a business; you'd fail before you began with your lack of logic and business acumen.

So much for one who harps that everyone should have the right to make their own choices about their bodies and healthcare and that everyone, including companies MUST take care of the poor and everyone else. Except, of course, if you are a Republican or a Conservative or anything other than a Liberal and Democrat, well, in that case, your opinions, rights and ideals don't apply.

Who is the hyprocite? That's right; it is you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huh?

I find the rumor/lie endlessly repeating to be boring. I bet you do too. It was interesting until janey and he-who-will-not-be-named crawled out.



Janet Cooke said:


> I can't hhhhheeeeaaaarrrrr you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent deduction. Thanks.



Jeannne said:


> Please note that the quote I used does not say Breitbart performed the study. Breitbart.com published the story written by Matthew Boyle, who used the statistics. I wanted to find out the qualifications of Matthew Boyle, and I read that he is not very much respected for informed writing.
> 
> Comparing the number of trips taken by the past Presidents has no purpose because each one served in his respective time frame. The article implies that trips equal vacations. This is a fine example of manufacturing an issue to manipulate opinion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ABC News did a series of shows on this topic.



theyarnlady said:


> Please could someone show me what company does not buy goods from China?
> 
> If you can I might want to go there and shop.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I think when you make statements like:
> 
> Tell me why Obama has outlawed Christianity in the white house, but, has put Muslim as his #1 religion
> 
> that you should be able to back it up with a link to where you got your information. You loose all credibility with statements like that with no proof.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand, but I do not agree so I join the boycott against Hobby Lobby.



joeysomma said:


> How are they pushing personal beliefs on their employees?
> 
> Their employees are free to use whatever medical procedures they want to use. Only Hobby Lobby refuses to pay for any that may cause the death of a baby (it is only 4 pills).
> 
> What is so difficult to understand?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks. Now it's there for everyone to understand. My conscience does not agree so I won't be shopping there.



NJG said:


> Because it is easy to overlook things when you are making billions off of it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I find it easier to just scroll past whatever she posts. There is never anything worthwhile there anyway, except anger.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: That's my conclusion too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Because it is not their right to say, I will provide healthcare to you as my employee, but my religion will control what it will provide, even though that may not be your religion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a totally ridiculous and foolish answer.
> 
> Good thing you don't own nor operate a business; you'd fail before you began with your lack of logic and business acumen.
> 
> ...


I think conservative men should stage a protest and call it OGO (occupy gynecologists' offices). I mean it is their choice to choose their own doctors, and they have to pay for OBGYN care because of obamacare, so why not take advantage of all the good services that obamacare has to offer? Hey they might want to have a mammogram. Or maybe just chat about their 'feminine side'. Can you imagine the outrage that would cause? The ORF would be out of control.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Excellent deduction. Thanks.


Only if one has the ability to use deductive reasoning, Empress.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't do any crafts??? Janeway Janeway -- check out the workshop section. we are at #53 and I organized every one.
> 
> I have even acknowledged your quilting on pictures-- So why don't you start telling it the way it is -- not the way you imagine it to be - if you can't find something nasty to say you make something up. Some of the people on both sides of these 'talks' have taken the workshops and all are welcome.
> I average about 30 hours a week on crafts. Also check out the other crafts and read 'my lifetime of work' . You will likely say all my work was done by others -- sorry - that ain't the truth.


Designer, you & I do have an ugly history, but I knew you were posting as I didn't respond so why did you find it necessary to post your usual nasty reply to me? Quit posting to me as I was not referring to you as yes, I do know you are crafty so don't respond to me again!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I think conservative men should stage a protest and call it OGO (occupy gynecologists' offices). I mean it is their choice to choose their own doctors, and they have to pay for OBGYN care because of obamacare, so why not take advantage of all the good services that obamacare has to offer? Hey they might want to have a mammogram. Or maybe just chat about their 'feminine side'. Can you imagine the outrage that would cause? The ORF would be out of control.


I'm going to go to some Indian Restaurant and demand they cook me a hamburger. Then I'm going to go to work for a Jewish owner and demand Christmas decorations including crosses be put up in the lobby during the season. Then, I'll be demanding that Muslim store owners allow me to work for them while I am pregnant and wearing a mini skirt and no head covering while I work with a crucifix hanging on a chain around my neck.

After all, whether the owners are human or not, I have my rights that I should be able to mandate upon them as I see fit.

I didn't start there companies, but I sure as heck will demand three times the minimum wage for my salaryeven though I'm not equipped with the necessary skill sets to work in those places. Doesn't matter, I get what I want.

Oh, and lastly, I'm a female so I'm going to demand time to smoke cigars in their lunch rooms daily and don't even talk to me about sexual harassment; I'm going to do that too, free from the threat of being fired. "Cause if any of those evil sole proprietors or corporations fire me, I'll sue them and take my case to any darn implanted Dem judge I'm willing to pay to rule in my favor.

Other than that, I have no strong feelings on this topic.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I could care less if anyone answers it.
> I am just pointing out the hypocrisy. It's there, the elephant (punny reference intended) in the room


Janet, Janet, Janet, where do you keep your donkey??? Out in the left pasture? Please why do you bring up these slams? I thought you claimed to be an educated person!!!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Don't pay any attention to her, Jeanne, she is just plain nasty to anyone who doesn't massage her tootsies.


Janet, Janet! Janet, calling the pot "black" again? Can't you ever say anything nice??? Thought you were above such nastiness!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> What an amazing theory you just presented. Secretly, I wonder if my friends here are really fiber crafters. Maybe they just stumbled in to be annoying. Jane Way, when we get tomorrow's digest, would you check to see if the Lefties post on main or in Pictures? Thanks.
> 
> Then I will throw a coming-out party when we detect the "liars".
> 
> But wait ! I cannot attend and certainly not host, as I do knit, albeit erratically, so I must decline my own invitation. So Janeeeeee, you will have to be there and most likely all alone. Ha Ha


Glad you knit as I also knit--only easy items. I read a post where you told of your education so why can't you enlighten us instead of what you write as I'm still learning as had speech therapy after suffering a cardiac arrest. I'm still not well, but each day is a blessing from God. Yes, I do believe in Christainty.

Enlighten me please, thank you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to go to some Indian Restaurant and demand they cook me a hamburger. Then I'm going to go to work for a Jewish owner and demand Christmas decorations including crosses be put up in the lobby during the season. Then, I'll be demanding that Muslim store owners allow me to work for them while I am pregnant and wearing a mini skirt and no head covering while I work with a crucifix hanging on a chain around my neck.
> 
> After all, whether the owners are human or not, I have my rights that I should be able to mandate upon them as I see fit.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me! You go girl!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> ABC News did a series of shows on this topic.


Oh I know of that one. Isn't that the one where you could not furnish a house with maybe 6 items made in the USA.

As to some who are worried about how China treats it's people. No mention was made about other countries that do the same thing. Yet those products are brought into this country.

I would really like to know as one seem to feel the need to blame Hobby Lobby for the pruchase of yarns ect. from China.

Has any one bought clothes from high end stores and look at the labels? Or take Penny's and look at the labels. It is not just Walmart.

If it is so bad for the people that work at Hobby Lobby, I do think that they would be looking for other jobs. Have not heard of any of the employees fight this rule and mass protest? Something is not right with that. Why would they not, some and very few protested against Walmart.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Hobby Lobby has their own labels for the majority of their yarns.

The yarn is made in Turkey. I just bought lots of it in support of HL. I've been to Turkey. That country makes some of the most exquisite silk yarns and rugs in the world that I've seen. The majority of yarns I buy are made in Turkey; their fiber products are of excellence.

I've recently saw the fabrics they offer, and bought $300 worth.

None of the fabrics are made in China that I saw/bought.

I bought craft items, none came from China.

I bought two decor items that I assume came from China. So what? If Americans were willing to work instead of complain about receiving wages not earned because they feel "entitled" there would be more manufacturing jobs available in the USA and our country wouldn't need to import goods from China.

As it stands today, Americans gripe and complain about prices yet only want to pay cheap prices for goods and services because they don't rely on themselves to make good wages for work because the majority don't work! 

More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports.

A fact of life; you get what you pay for. If you want quality, pay for it. If you want more money to buy higher quality, earn it.

BTW: The one person complaining has no justification for her question Yarnie, and its a ridiculously stupid question to boot.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Designer, you & I do have an ugly history, but I knew you were posting as I didn't respond so why did you find it necessary to post your usual nasty reply to me? Quit posting to me as I was not referring to you as yes, I do know you are crafty so don't respond to me again!


==================
No more orders Janeway - you posted that none of us were crafty I answered with the truth -people on both sides of the Political threads have taken classes with us. Politics is ignored there and rightly so- Even if you arrived on one of the workshops you would be welcomed - and that is the truth .

yes,we have an ugly history --you have threatened or said you had reported me l7 different times - although I think most of them were threats- not once did I receive a slap in the hand or a mention of it from the people you reported me to. I will answer whatever threads I wish.

As I am not a 'foreigner on KP -- I am a member just like you. You insulted my country - the only one on the Right who has done that to my knowledge- If you deny that then I will post what you said about me and about Canada - I have not insulted yours - I worry about what is happening there and have the right to say so -I care about your country and your countrymen -- you insult me and my country - as well as many many people on these forums.

- so I don't worry about your instructions to ignore you. I usually do ignore you, but if I want to answer one of your nasty posts, I will.

By the way, I don't bother admin with 'reports' and I doubt you report as many people as you have said. - I believe your threats to 'report' are at least triple over the past two years (17 for me and at least as many or double for others who answer your nastiness]. Don't worry - I won't be replying to your foolishness unless it affects me. So lets leave it at that. I ignored your posts too -until you told another lie which included me. -

I have had my say -- no need to reply -- If you really don't want me to take you on - then leave it alone. That is not a threat - I have no interest in getting down and dirty with you - or anyone else and certainly I have no interest in personal attacks - I won't be spoken down to or given orders though as you have in the past.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports."

This was a hard sentence to understand - please rephrase if it is important.

We are in terrible debt to China and it is my guess that one of the conditions for China allowing us to borrow its money is that we allow their unlimited exports. If China called in our debt to them, then no tea in China could help us out - it would spell disaster.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I think conservative men should stage a protest and call it OGO (occupy gynecologists' offices). I mean it is their choice to choose their own doctors, and they have to pay for OBGYN care because of obamacare, so why not take advantage of all the good services that obamacare has to offer? Hey they might want to have a mammogram. Or maybe just chat about their 'feminine side'. Can you imagine the outrage that would cause? The ORF would be out of control.


What a silly statement. Why would you suggest, even as a joke that Conservative men want to occupy the gynecologists offices-
I guess it is because those same men feel, and are allowed to feel by Conservative women - that they can decide for their wives and other women what care and what procedures they are allowed to have. Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying?? But then I guess that is the truth - the Man controls the money I guess and therefore can control what happens to a woman's personal health procedures. 
------
Any way -- It is 9 am here and I have lots to do so will be 
leaving you for now-- I will drop by when I have time - I hope a miracle will happen and the topics will start to be conversations, rather than insults and nastiness-- I hate being so frustrated that I join in the fray -- but then again that is my right. That is why I come in fits and spurts.

It is still winter here in Canada and we have had terrible storms in the eastern part of the country - I am in the west and it has snowed lightly for 3 days with more to come. It is such an unusual winter - I hope that all of you down there are safe and not affected by the terrible winter you are having. I look out the window and it is snowing now - and looks like a January day. It will be nice when we all get spring. Take care everyone.

PS - I Pray for those who were caught in the mudslide in Washington State and I understand that some of our Firefighters have offered to go down and help. Just as American firefighters came up to BC to help fight terrible fires and just asToronto firefighters wentn down to NJ after the Hurricane to help search for survivors -- we have done that throughout our history. Canadians and Americans cross our borders - visit and get to know each other -- which I feel is pretty great.

We are neighbours - we care about each other we have the only free or nearly free border in the world - that is something really special, in my opinion.

I hope you will take a break and join us in one of our workshops - they are worth while and are available to all our KP members - we have American, Canadian, Australian, NewZealand and British teachers and we enjoy each other's company - No politics but lots of fun. I send out an invitation here - you will not be hassled, or insulted or mistreated in any way - no matter what side of the Political spectrum you are on. It might be nice to get away from here once in awhile so that you can breath and enjoy a group where there is no nastiness. If you wish to join us you are welcome.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> "More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports."
> 
> This was a hard sentence to understand - please rephrase if it is important.


You are correct. I could have written a better sentence.

All I was trying to convey is that people without good paying jobs, OR those who rely on govt assistance for part of all of their compensation, can only afford cheap products and services.

Hence, why the supply/demand equation is fulfilled for the more than 50% of all Americans with cheap imports from China.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> "More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports."
> 
> This was a hard sentence to understand - please rephrase if it is important.
> 
> We are in terrible debt to China and it is my guess that one of the conditions for China allowing us to borrow its money is that we allow their unlimited exports. If China called in our debt to them, then no tea in China could help us out - it would spell disaster.


Boy do I ever agree with you there. If China calls in the debt we owe them, we will be in deep trouble. 
We really have to get control of spending in this nation. Last I check to pay off our debt every man women and Child would have to pay 50,000 dollars and that was last years figures. Our dollar return is worth .70 cents then and was going down. We are printing money that is worthless. I do mean the whole of goverment not one party not one person but the whole we can not keep spending what we don't have. We all must give up something in order to balance our buget it is time for our government to do the same.
I can understand that some in this nation have real needs, but if this keep on there will be no money for them or the rest of the programs.

We should understand that it will be our children and grandchildren and the next generation after that that will be paying for this.

And like you post, if China calls in their note we will be in deep trouble. Some laugh at the commerical where they told of people who should learn the Chinese language, funny but scary too.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> "More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports."
> 
> This was a hard sentence to understand - please rephrase if it is important.
> 
> We are in terrible debt to China and it is my guess that one of the conditions for China allowing us to borrow its money is that we allow their unlimited exports. If China called in our debt to them, then no tea in China could help us out - it would spell disaster.


Are you sure you want to claim that? The last time I checked China held less than 10% of our debt.

Pie Chart first just cuz I like them.

http://www.mygovcost.org/2012/04/02/who-really-owns-the-us-national-debt/


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hobby Lobby has their own labels for the majority of their yarns.
> 
> The yarn is made in Turkey. I just bought lots of it in support of HL. I've been to Turkey. That country makes some of the most exquisite silk yarns and rugs in the world that I've seen. The majority of yarns I buy are made in Turkey; their fiber products are of excellence.
> 
> ...


I might remind you that a good portion of our manufacturing jobs have left the country. These companies are owned by greedy Republicans who want to get richer. They don't care that there are people in this country suffering because they have no work. All they care about is padding their pockets with more money. The shoes you buy, the cookware you use, most of the clothes you buy are produced by poor Chinese making a dollar for every pair of shoes they make for which you pay $100.00. You are very correct that there are a lot of people out of work but I don't for one minute think that they all like sitting at home collecting a check. I know people who are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. I know folks who are unemployed because the company for which they worked, closed their doors and moved their operation to China. In order to turn this country around, we must bring jobs back to this country.

As far as entitlement is concerned, there have always been those who think they are entitled including those here on KP, who are so self- righteous to pass judgment on those who are less fortunate, those of another color or those of a different culture.....just because.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/obama-family-flights-toin-africa-hawaii-cost-15-8m/#BizvwFgEpsGgDmMu.99


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumnerusa said:


> I might remind you that a good portion of our manufacturing jobs have left the country. These companies are owned by greedy Republicans who want to get richer. They don't care that there are people in this country suffering because they have no work. All they care about is padding their pockets with more money. The shoes you buy, the cookware you use, most of the clothes you buy are produced by poor Chinese making a dollar for every pair of shoes they make for which you pay $100.00. You are very correct that there are a lot of people out of work but I don't for one minute think that they all like sitting at home collecting a check. I know people who are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. I know folks who are unemployed because the company for which they worked, closed their doors and moved their operation to China. In order to turn this country around, we must bring jobs back to this country.
> 
> As far as entitlement is concerned, there have always been those who think they are entitled including those here on KP, who are so self- righteous to pass judgment on those who are less fortunate, those of another color or those of a different culture.....just because.


You don't have to remind me of anything. I also don't need to be fed your lies and hatred. I don't pass judgements on those less fortunate than me, but you seem to. However, you are entitled to your opinion as am I.


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## LauraJean2 (Jun 10, 2011)

:thumbdown:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2014/03/obama-family-flights-toin-africa-hawaii-cost-15-8m/#BizvwFgEpsGgDmMu.99


Yup, World Net Daily. I don't want a virus, thanks.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LauraJean2 said:


> What chaos in this admin


Could you expand on that thought? Did your finger slip?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Top ten county that the US has borrowed from 12/20/13

1. China-1268.9 billion

2. Japan-1182.5 billion

3.Caribbean. banking-209.9 billion

4. Belgium-256.8 billion

5. Brazil-245.4 billion

6. Oil exporters-238.3 billion

7. Others-208.0 billion

8. Taiwan-182.2 billion

9. Switzerland - 175.1 billion

10. United Kingdom-163.36

So SQM is right. We owe China more then any other country.

If China calls in the money owed to them, what makes you think that others will not follow suit.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yup, World Net Daily. I don't want a virus, thanks.


You just want to stay in denial.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sumnerusa said:


> I might remind you that a good portion of our manufacturing jobs have left the country. These companies are owned by greedy Republicans who want to get richer. They don't care that there are people in this country suffering because they have no work. All they care about is padding their pockets with more money. The shoes you buy, the cookware you use, most of the clothes you buy are produced by poor Chinese making a dollar for every pair of shoes they make for which you pay $100.00. You are very correct that there are a lot of people out of work but I don't for one minute think that they all like sitting at home collecting a check. I know people who are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. I know folks who are unemployed because the company for which they worked, closed their doors and moved their operation to China. In order to turn this country around, we must bring jobs back to this country.
> 
> As far as entitlement is concerned, there have always been those who think they are entitled including those here on KP, who are so self- righteous to pass judgment on those who are less fortunate, those of another color or those of a different culture.....just because.


Could you please tell me where you got the figures from that more company's that moved oversea are Republican. I have look for that information and can not find companies listed as Democrats or Republicans.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234, I'm very sorry.



Janeway said:


> Designer, you & I do have an ugly history, but I knew you were posting as I didn't respond so why did you find it necessary to post your usual nasty reply to me? Quit posting to me as I was not referring to you as yes, I do know you are crafty so don't respond to me again!


----------



## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Could you please tell me where you got the figures from that more company's that moved oversea are Republican. I have look for that information and can not find companies listed as Democrats or Republicans.


This is why we have no jobs!
http://www.democraticleader.gov/news/reports/outsourcing-report-republicans-rewarding-corporations-ship-us-jobs-overseas

GOP Record: Last Four Years

99% of Republicans Voted To Protect Tax Breaks for Companies Who Ship American Jobs Overseas. Republicans opposed legislation that closed tax loopholes that encourage companies to move American jobs overseas in order to pay for protecting the jobs of over 300,000 police, firefighters, and teachers. The provisions in this jobs bill close existing loopholes that, to use Mr. Boehner's words, make it more expensive to create jobs in the United States and less expensive to create jobs overseas. In fact, these loopholes can result in U.S. corporations enjoying a negative effective tax rate on their offshore investment income. This creates a strong incentive for U.S. corporations to shift profits offshore, either through accounting gimmicks or by moving actual operations and jobs offshore. [CTJ] [Education Jobs and Medicaid Assistance Act, HR 1586, #518, 8/10/10] This bill became law over Republican objections. (PL 111-226)

99% of Republicans Opposed Small Business Relief Paid For By Closing Outsourcing Tax Breaks. In July, Republicans opposed legislation that would have reduced paperwork and reporting requirements for small businesses and been paid for by ending tax breaks that encourage companies to move American jobs overseas. [Small Business Tax Relief Act, H.R. 5982, Vote 514, 7/30/10; The Hill, 7/30/10]

99% of Republicans Opposed Legislation to End Tax Breaks for Companies Who Ship American Jobs Overseas. In May, Republicansopposed the American Jobs, Closing Tax Loopholes and Preventing Outsourcing Act, legislation that would prevent corporations from using current U.S. foreign tax credit rules to subsidize their foreign activities and create up to 1 million jobs by restoring credit to small businesses, extending tax incentives for American R&D and energy, rebuilding American infrastructure, expanding youth jobs, and providing tax relief for middle class American families. [American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act, H.R. 4213, Vote 324, 5/28/10]

98% of Republicans Twice Voted Against Cracking Down on Foreign Tax Haven Corporations. Republicans voted against a bill to create jobs with bipartisan provisions to spur investment in local rebuilding projects and a range of bipartisan proposals to help our small businesses grow, hire and continue to fuel our economy - including a provision to save American jobs by cracking down on foreign tax haven corporations that are using the U.S. tax treaty network to dodge U.S. taxes. They also voted against cracking down on this tax loophole in a bill to strengthen American agriculture to meet the 21st Century needs of the United States and the world with a safe, stable food supply. [Small Business and Infrastructure Jobs Act, H.R. 4849, Vote 182, 3/24/10; Farm Bill, H.R. 2419, Vote 755, 7/27/07]

97% of Republicans Voted Against Cracking Down on Offshore Accounts for Corporations and the Wealthy. Republicans voted against the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act, which makes it much harder for United States citizens and corporations to avoid taxes by hiding money in overseas bank accounts, while helping create 300,000 jobs here at home by providing tax cuts for businesses to hire and accelerating write-offs for small businesses and by unleashing billions for infrastructure. Individuals have stashed an estimated $1 trillion in offshore accountsallowing them to avoid up to $70 billion in taxes each year. abusive offshore schemes by corporations cost our Treasury an estimated $30 billion in tax revenue as well. The bill also delays for 3 years a questionable tax break enacted in 2004 under President Bush that would let U.S. multinational companies that have shipped jobs overseas reduce their U.S. taxes by deducting more of their worldwide interest income against their U.S. income. [HIRE Act, H.R. 2847, Vote 90, 3/4/10; New York Times, 3/27/10] This bill became law over Republican objections. (PL 111-147)

99% of Republicans Voted Against Cracking Down on Overseas Tax Havens. The bill provides the U.S. Treasury Department with significant new tools to find and prosecute U.S. individuals that hide from the Internal Revenue Service assets overseas in foreign tax havens, like Switzerland, Liechtenstein and some Caribbean countries. These funds would be used to extend expiring tax provisions, including the tax credit for research and development and incentives to invest in restaurants and retail businesses. [H.R. 4213, Vote 943, 12/9/09]

85% of Republicans Voted Twice to Protect a Tax Loophole for CEOs' Deferred Compensation Paid by Offshore Companies. Republicans voted against closing tax loopholes that allow hedge fund managers and corporate CEOs to use offshore tax havens to escape income tax on unlimited amounts of deferred compensation. [H.R. 4351, Vote 1153, 12/12/07; H.R. 7060, Vote 649, 9/26/08] This finally became law, as part of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act (PL 110-245), despite Republican objections.

88% of Republicans Voted to Protect Tax Benefits for American Expatriates who Renounce their Citizenship. Republicans voted against strengthening laws to ensure that certain wealthy taxpayers cannot renounce their U.S. citizenship or terminate their U.S. residence in order to avoid U.S. taxes. [H.R. 3056, Vote 960, 10/10/07] This provision finally became law, as part of the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Tax Act (PL 110-245), despite Republican objections.

GOP Record on Outsourcing Under President Bush

The Bush Administration and Congressional Republicans long supported incentives for shipping American jobs overseas, while voting against cracking down on off-shore tax shelters. Here are the words of President Bush's top economic advisors:

Outsourcing is a growing phenomenon, but it is something that we should realize is probably a plus for the economy in the long run.' Chairman Gregory Mankiw, Bush White House Council of Economic Advisers, New York Times, 2/11/04

the practice of moving American jobs to low-cost countries is part of trade' and that 'there can't be any doubt about the fact that trade makes the economy stronger.' Bush Administration Treasury Secretary John W. Snow, New York Times, 3/31/04

Meanwhile Republicans in Congress fought to keep, and even expand, these kinds of tax loopholes for years.
◾Republicans Enacted Legislation to Provide $42 billion in Additional Tax Benefits for Offshore Operations of U.S. Corporations, Encouraging the Shipping of U.S. Jobs Overseas. The measure included 24 separate provisions that encourage shipping jobs overseas -- replacing tax incentives to export American goods with tax incentives to export Americans jobs. This came at a time when studies showed that U.S. companies shifting more of their profits to tax-haven countries, such as Bermuda, to avoid paying U.S. taxes costing the U.S. treasury as much as $20 billion each year. [PL 108-357]
◾All Republicans Voted For Tax Provisions that Promote Shipping American Jobs Overseas. All Republicans voted for provisions that promote shipping jobs overseas, against replacing them with tax relief for American manufacturing to create more American jobs, and against cracking down on tax shelters for corporations relocate overseas to avoid paying taxes. [HR 4520, American Jobs Creation Act - Motion to Recommit; H.R. 4520, Vote 258, 6/17/04] 
◾99% of Republicans Voted Twice to Protect American Corporations in Offshore Tax Havens. Republicans defeated efforts to close tax loopholes that allow corporations to relocate their headquarters offshore in order to avoid paying federal taxes. Corporations moving to these low-tax countries were estimated cost American people $4 billion a year in lost revenue at the time. [H.R. 4931, Retirement Savings Act, Vote 247, 6/21/02; Health Saving Accounts, H.R. 4279, Vote 161, 5/12/04] Because of Democratic pressure, these provisions were enacted in 2004, as part of the American Jobs Creation Act, but Republicans grandfathered many of the most egregious offenders. (PL 108-357)
◾88% of Republicans Voted Four Times to Protect Government Contracts for Corporate Expatriates. House Republicans also voted against Democrats' measures to deny government contracts for corporations that incorporate on paper overseas to avoid paying their taxes in America. The General Accounting Office estimated that the federal government awarded $2.7 billion in 2001 to four federal contractors incorporated in overseas tax havens. [H.R. 4567, Fiscal 2005 Homeland Security Appropriations, Vote 268, 6/18/2004; Fiscal 2006 Transportation-Treasury-Housing Appropriations (HR 3058) Vote 351, 6/30/05; Fiscal 2007 Transportation-Treasury-Housing Appropriations (HR 5576), Vote 275, 6/14/06] Over the opposition of the House GOP, this ban was applied to Treasury-Transportation-HUD in FY06 and FY07. And when Democrats took control of Congress, this effort to deny government contracts for corporate expatriates was expanded to apply to all government contracts - not just those of the Homeland Security, Transportation, Treasury and Housing and Urban Development Departments -- in FY 2008, with 91% of Republicans voting against it. [H.R. 2829, Financial Services Appropriations, Vote 606, 6/28/07]
◾All Republicans Voted Against Help for Workers Whose Jobs Were Outsourced. All Republicans voted against financial assistance for workers whose jobs have been outsourced overseas. HR 27, Job Training Improvement Act - Motion to Recommit. Vote 47, 3/2/05] 
◾98% of Republicans Voted Against Study on Outsourcing of U.S. Jobs. Virtually all Republicans rejected even requiring the Commerce Department to complete an independent study on the outsourcing of U.S. jobs and provide policy recommendations based on these findings. [HR 3598, Vote 358, 7/9/2004]

Who's Pushing This Wildly Unpopular Agenda?

One family stands out for the scope of its support for the Republican agenda and candidates who will protect this family's financial interests.

Koch Industries Executives Behind Americans for Prosperity. In 2004, David Koch co-founded the right-wing astroturf/swift-boat group, Americans for Prosperity. AFP is one of the major funders of the tea party movement and has launched millions of dollars in ads attacking House DemocratsAmericans for Prosperity launched Porkulus rallies against Obama's stimulus-spending measures. also created an offshoot, Patients United Now, which organized what Phillips, the head of AFP has estimated to be more than three hundred rallies against health-care reform. At one rally, an effigy of a Democratic congressman was hung The group also helped organize the Kill the Bill protests outside the Capitol, in March, where Democratic supporters of health-care reform alleged that they were spat on and cursed at  Americans for Prosperity, meanwhile, has announced that it will spend an additional forty-five million dollars before the midterm elections, in November. Although the group is legally prohibited from directly endorsing candidates, it nonetheless plans to target some fifty House races and half a dozen Senate races, staging rallies, organizing door-to-door canvassing, and running ads aimed at educating voters about where candidates stand. [New Yorker, 8/30/10]

Key Koch Industries Subsidiary Received an Award for Shipping American Jobs to China. In 2006, Invista, a key subsidiary of Koch Industries, received the Outsourcing Excellence Award, from Freeborders, a global provider of outsourcing services from China, for their work shipping American jobs to China. [Freeborders Release, 6/1/06]

Major Koch Subsidiary is Listed as a Company Exporting America. Koch Industries is the owner of Georgia Pacific, a company on Lou Dobbs' list of companies either sending American jobs overseas, or choosing to employ cheap overseas labor, instead of American workers. [CNN; Koch Industries]

Koch Industries is a Large Wealthy Secretive Conglomerate. The Kochs operate oil refineries in Alaska, Texas, and Minnesota, and control some four thousand miles of pipeline. Koch Industries owns Brawny paper towels, Dixie cups, Georgia-Pacific lumber, Stainmaster carpet, and Lycra, among other products. Forbes ranks it as the second-largest private company in the country... [The brothers]...combined fortune of thirty-five billion dollars is exceeded only by those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett... Charles Lewis, the founder of the Center for Public Integrity, a nonpartisan watchdog group, said, The Kochs are on a whole different level. There's no one else who has spent this much money. The sheer dimension of it is what sets them apart. They have a pattern of lawbreaking, political manipulation, and obfuscation. I've been in Washington since Watergate, and I've never seen anything like it. They are the Standard Oil of our times.' [New Yorker, 8/30/10]


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sumnerusa said:


> This is why we have no jobs!
> http://www.democraticleader.gov/news/reports/outsourcing-report-republicans-rewarding-corporations-ship-us-jobs-overseas
> 
> GOP Record: Last Four Years
> ...


Thank you but that still does not list which party's who own companies that went overseas.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Thank you but that still does not list which party's who own companies that went overseas.


Yarnie, do you think she drinks sweetened or sugar-free KoolAid?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Data Source Fed. Budget History

Spending Debt Winter 2014

Pensions 912.8 billion

Health care 969.8 billion

Education 112.6 billion

Defense 820.2 billion

Welfare 404.9 billion

Protection 53.1 billion

Transportation 95.1 billion

General goverment 26. 4 billion

Other spending 31.4 billion 

Interest 223.5 billion

Total spending 3650.5 billion

General deficit 648.8 billion

Gross Public debt 17,892.7


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

US/ Federal Budget FY site

Estimated spending breakdown

Pie Chart 2014

Health Care- 20 percent

Pensions 19 percent

Education 16 percent

Defense 13 percent

Welfare 8 percent

Other spending 7 percent

Transportant 5 percent

Protection 4 percent

General goverment spending 3 percent.

This is put out by the us goverment and the chart posted above this. for the year 2014.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yarnie, do you think she drinks sweetened or sugar-free KoolAid?


I am wondering as I still can not find site listing which companies are Dem or Repub.

Also I would like to ask her to publish the bills that were put fore by the Dem. Party.

I feel that both should be listed to be fair.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for this impressive information.



sumnerusa said:


> This is why we have no jobs!
> http://www.democraticleader.gov/news/reports/outsourcing-report-republicans-rewarding-corporations-ship-us-jobs-overseas
> 
> GOP Record: Last Four Years
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janet your post about borrowing from China was from the year 2012.

That was 2 years ago.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a totally ridiculous and foolish answer.
> 
> Good thing you don't own nor operate a business; you'd fail before you began with your lack of logic and business acumen.
> 
> ...


As usual, your comments don't really pertain to what was said. You just go of on some tangent that pertains to nothing, and try to make yourself sound so intelligent, but again you failed. I still believe everyone has the right to make their own choices about their bodies and healthcare, and my statement doesn't change that. Hobby Lobby has the right to do the same for themselves, but not the right to do it for their employees. The least you could do if you want to call someone names is learn how to spell hypocrite.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Could they control the payment for prescriptions if it wasn't their religion?
> 
> Could they say they would pay for all prescriptions except the ones for aids or cancer? They may be too expensive or experimental drugs.


No.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As to the moneies spent by this administration for travel.

We can not change the past, but this is here and now.

We can no longer afford to keep spending what we don't have.

I know that we have to have good will tours, but we can not keep doing what has been done before.

As our President said on his campaign before he was elected the first time he would rein in the budget that was spent during the last administration.

But has ask for and got the debt ceiling raised. That is not what was promised. 

He is what I would call the boss who is incharge of the company. As Truman said the buck stops here. This was repeated by our own President.It is time for that to happen.

I hold the whole goverment accountable for this, but he is the one who can and should stop it.

Also stop with the racist theme. I am not a RACIST, I am a citzen of this country who happens to disagree with our Presidents policy.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Now that I have had my say as living in a nation where we are free to address our freedom of speech . I will leave now and thank you for letting me have my say.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I know of that one. Isn't that the one where you could not furnish a house with maybe 6 items made in the USA.
> 
> As to some who are worried about how China treats it's people. No mention was made about other countries that do the same thing. Yet those products are brought into this country.
> 
> ...


I think you missed the point. Every business makes their own decision about where they buy their products from. I don't believe I have heard that Penney's is trying to control their employees healthcare like Hobby Lobby is. It is hypocritical of Hobby Lobby to try to control what their employees do, but they have no qualms about buying their products from China, considering China's use of abortion. The reason is the billions of dollars Hobby Lobby makes off of these products. Seems like money going into their pocket allows them to overlook a few things.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> ==================
> No more orders Janeway - you posted that none of us were crafty I answered with the truth -people on both sides of the Political threads have taken classes with us. Politics is ignored there and rightly so- Even if you arrived on one of the workshops you would be welcomed - and that is the truth .
> 
> yes,we have an ugly history --you have threatened or said you had reported me l7 different times - although I think most of them were threats- not once did I receive a slap in the hand or a mention of it from the people you reported me to. I will answer whatever threads I wish.
> ...


You are awesome Shirley. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I am wondering as I still can not find site listing which companies are Dem or Repub.
> 
> Also I would like to ask her to publish the bills that were put fore by the Dem. Party.
> 
> I feel that both should be listed to be fair.


Perhaps you should go to a senior center and get some lessons on how to use the internet.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sumnerusa said:


> I might remind you that a good portion of our manufacturing jobs have left the country. These companies are owned by greedy Republicans who want to get richer. They don't care that there are people in this country suffering because they have no work. All they care about is padding their pockets with more money. The shoes you buy, the cookware you use, most of the clothes you buy are produced by poor Chinese making a dollar for every pair of shoes they make for which you pay $100.00. You are very correct that there are a lot of people out of work but I don't for one minute think that they all like sitting at home collecting a check. I know people who are working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. I know folks who are unemployed because the company for which they worked, closed their doors and moved their operation to China. In order to turn this country around, we must bring jobs back to this country.
> 
> As far as entitlement is concerned, there have always been those who think they are entitled including those here on KP, who are so self- righteous to pass judgment on those who are less fortunate, those of another color or those of a different culture.....just because.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have to remind me of anything. I also don't need to be fed your lies and hatred. I don't pass judgements on those less fortunate than me, but you seem to. However, you are entitled to your opinion as am I.


Quote: If Americans were willing to work instead of complain about receiving wages not earned because they feel "entitled" there would be more manufacturing jobs available in the USA and our country wouldn't need to import goods from China.

Quote: As it stands today, Americans gripe and complain about prices yet only want to pay cheap prices for goods and services because they don't rely on themselves to make good wages for work because the majority don't work!

Quote: More then 50% of Americans refuse to work, so they force themselves into the cheap imports from China because that is all our government can pay in unearned compensation which can only afford those cheap imports.

If you call the previous quotes "not passing judgement," then I would hate to hear you pass judgement.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yarnie, do you think she drinks sweetened or sugar-free KoolAid?


Which kind do you bathe in KPG? You are way past the drinking it stage.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It also does not say how many Democrats voted the same way.
> 
> One of the reasons the jobs are moving overseas, is the unnecessary regulations put on businesses by the government.


Sure, like get rid of the regulations on the big banks. Let them do whatever they want. What did that get us. Big banks, big business, none of them can be trusted. They prove it over and over and over.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

NJG said:


> Quote: If Americans were willing to work instead of complain about receiving wages not earned because they feel "entitled" there would be more manufacturing jobs available in the USA and our country wouldn't need to import goods from China.
> 
> Quote: As it stands today, Americans gripe and complain about prices yet only want to pay cheap prices for goods and services because they don't rely on themselves to make good wages for work because the majority don't work!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Could you please tell me where you got the figures from that more company's that moved oversea are Republican. I have look for that information and can not find companies listed as Democrats or Republicans.


theyarnlady
it is hard to see the truth with blinders on.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> theyarnlady
> it is hard to see the truth with blinders on.


Between you and Confucious, Huck, I just cannot decide who is better.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> They why don't you help, by finding the website for her?
> 
> I bet you are unable to.


joeysomma
it is your gang who is traipsing in the dark at all times.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Between you and Confucious, Huck, I just cannot decide who is better.


Janey Cooke
Thank you. I very much enjoy your eloquent postings.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Sure, like get rid of the regulations on the big banks. Let them do whatever they want. What did that get us. Big banks, big business, none of them can be trusted. They prove it over and over and over.


NJG 
those gansters are at it again. When one is in charge of so much money, one has no fear.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> What a silly statement. Why would you suggest, even as a joke that Conservative men want to occupy the gynecologists offices-
> I guess it is because those same men feel, and are allowed to feel by Conservative women - that they can decide for their wives and other women what care and what procedures they are allowed to have. Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying?? But then I guess that is the truth - the Man controls the money I guess and therefore can control what happens to a woman's personal health procedures.
> ------
> Any way -- It is 9 am here and I have lots to do so will be
> ...


I would like to thank you for all of your kind, neighborly and very Christian like words. Cheers!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> As to the moneies spent by this administration for travel.
> 
> We can not change the past, but this is here and now.
> 
> ...


I agree we need to stop the spending, but republicans didn't want to stop the spending during the Bush years, but now because there is a democrat in the White House, it is a big deal, and of course the only way they want to do it is on the backs of those least able to handle it. They want to let big oil companies keep their subsidies, but take food away from children. Cut the snap program, but don't raise the minimum wage. I can guarantee you that if we had a republican in the white house you wouldn't be hearing all this talk about cutting spending. 
President Obama has cut spending and wants to control it more, but wants to do it in a balanced way, so as not to do it on the backs of those least able to handle it. The republicans in congress have no compassion for those less fortunate. When you hear Paul Ryan talk, do you hear the dog whistles? I'll bet not.

The first map shows what it would look like if only white men voted and the second shows if only white men and women voted. Now you can see why the republicans are trying to suppress the black and brown vote.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

NJG said:


> You are awesome Shirley. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I agree !!!


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## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

NJG said:


> Sure, like get rid of the regulations on the big banks. Let them do whatever they want. What did that get us. Big banks, big business, none of them can be trusted. They prove it over and over and over.


Contributors to Mitt Romney's campaign. With a Republican congress, I don't think there will be banking reform any too soon.

Goldman Sachs $237,575 
Citigroup Inc $172,950 
Merrill Lynch $172,425 
Morgan Stanley $170,350 
Lehman Brothers $150,700 
JPMorgan Chase & Co $127,400 
UBS AG $124,150 
Marriott International $121,150 
Bain Capital $117,250 
Bain & Co $117,075 
Kirkland & Ellis $116,300 
The Villages $110,900 
Credit Suisse Group $102,600 
Huron Consulting $102,050 
Compuware Corp $94,950 
PricewaterhouseCoopers $92,250 
American Financial Group $92,150 
Cerberus Capital Management $81,250 
Affiliated Managers Group $80,012 
Bank of America $75,350


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Hobby Lobby Case Shows Government is in Control No Matter the Outcome
> 
> _Should business owners be forced to pay for contraceptives or pay a fine if they dont in the new ever-changing Affordable Care Act? Wrong question.
> 
> ...


Your little godfather seems to have forgotten to include the perks for the corporate employer. How did that happen?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They why don't you help, by finding the website for her?
> 
> I bet you are unable to.


She is afraid she will get a virus. :roll:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It also does not say how many Democrats voted the same way.
> 
> One of the reasons the jobs are moving overseas, is the unnecessary regulations put on businesses by the government.


Unnecessary regulations you say. I disagree and think we need more regulations.

Fewer regulations om West Texas fertilizer plant==explosion, 14 people dead and 200 injured. 50 unit apartment building flattened, nursing home destroyed, school damaged and left, a crater 93 ft, by 10 ft.

Duke energy spill in North Carolina--- 50,000 to 82,000 tons of coal ash spilled into the Dan River. "How do you clean this up?" "Dredge the whole river bottom for miles? You can't clean this up. It's going to go up the food chain, from the filter feeders, to the fish, to the otters and birds and people. Everything in the ecosystem of a river is connected."
Coal ash is the remaining material after coal is burned, and it contains toxins like mercury, lead and arsenic, among other heavy metals that can sicken if ingested, according to a report by Physicians for Social Responsibility.
In the past when there have been law suits brought against Duke energy. Republican governor McCrory has taken over and lowered the fines to make it easier on Duke.

Toxic chemical leak in West Virginia contaminates water supply in 9 counties.

It is obvious they will not police themselves and when a spill happens they try to down play it and cover it up. Do I have to go into all the oil spills? Concerning the keystone pipeline, it is guaranteed to leak. A whistleblower that use to work for TransCanada said " a "culture of noncompliance" and "coercion, with "deeply entrenched business practices that ignored legally required regulations and codes" and carries "significant public safety risks." He called it "organized crime."
Besides the fact that they don't know how to clean up tar sands. Ask those that live near the Kalamazoo River in Michigan. In 2013 there was still 100,000 gallons remaining in the river bottom sediment, that was yet to be cleaned up.

Ask the people in Mayflower, Arkansas if they like less regulations and the 5,000 barrels of tar sands oil from a ExxonMobil pipeline leak came into their neighborhood, in March of 2013.

This could go on and on. Is it any wonder people don't want the pipelines in their neighborhoods? All you want when you talk about fewer regulations is letting the big corporations do whatever they want. As I said before, they will not police themselves.

In addition there is pet coke on barges near Chicago that is blowing all over everything. How about your grand children playing outside in that Joey?

http://www.wbez.org/news/southeast-side-residents-fuming-over-pet-coke-ash-109007

The neighborhood of working class poor, many of whom are Latino and black, has long been home to heavy industry. And large piles of black ash arent uncommon says resident Kate Koval.

But she says whats happening now is on a different scale.

Its really getting everywhere. People are worried about their health. And now we learn were going to get a lot more of it, said Koval, who is a native of nearby Whiting, Indiana. Koval is organizing informational meetings for the community with assistance from the Southeast Environmental Task Force.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Unnecessary regulations you say. I disagree and think we need more regulations.
> 
> Fewer regulations om West Texas fertilizer plant==explosion, 14 people dead and 200 injured. 50 unit apartment building flattened, nursing home destroyed, school damaged and left, a crater 93 ft, by 10 ft.
> 
> ...


Wasn't there just another explosion/spill in TX?


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

NJG said:


> Unnecessary regulations you say. I disagree and think we need more regulations.
> 
> Fewer regulations om West Texas fertilizer plant==explosion, 14 people dead and 200 injured. 50 unit apartment building flattened, nursing home destroyed, school damaged and left, a crater 93 ft, by 10 ft.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> As usual, your comments don't really pertain to what was said. You just go of on some tangent that pertains to nothing, and try to make yourself sound so intelligent, but again you failed. I still believe everyone has the right to make their own choices about their bodies and healthcare, and my statement doesn't change that. Hobby Lobby has the right to do the same for themselves, but not the right to do it for their employees. The least you could do if you want to call someone names is learn how to spell hypocrite.


In your own words that mean nothing:


NJG said:


> I find it easier to just scroll past whatever she posts. There is never anything worthwhile there anyway, except anger.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> My original question:
> 
> That is funny, since insurance companies do it all the time. Obama care is a very good example. The insurance company decides what prescriptions will be covered and which ones will not. The problem is no one knows which ones are covered by each policy until the policy has been purchased. If you don't agree with my statement, find a website that states all prescriptions are covered in all Obama care type policies.


You're talking to a brick wall when responding to NJG, Joey.

She believes HL is controlling or attempting to maintain control over the sex lives and bodies of its employees.

You cannot argue with stupid.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Perhaps you should go to a senior center and get some lessons on how to use the internet.


You need to go back to first grade and learn some manners and how to talk to people.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> They why don't you help, by finding the website for her?
> 
> I bet you are unable to.


Her words disgust me. What a louse.

Hours ago she told me to educate her.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Which kind do you bathe in KPG? You are way past the drinking it stage.


NJG wrote: I find it easier to just scroll past whatever she posts. There is never anything worthwhile there anyway, except anger.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is afraid she will get a virus. :roll:


That isn't it. She runs from providing facts, truths and logic to any argument because she is always ill informed and cannot justify her opinions.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumnerusa said:


> Contributors to Mitt Romney's campaign. With a Republican congress, I don't think there will be banking reform any too soon.
> 
> Goldman Sachs $237,575
> Citigroup Inc $172,950
> ...


I posted some of the largest donors to Obama's campaign.

Please note donors to Romney didn't even come close to what Obama's haul was.

The bottom two contributors compared is 75% MORE to Obama.

Who is buying the vote? The Dems!

Don't neglect to notice the USA govt agencies contributing to a Presidential candidate.

Note: I didn't bother to confirm the list I posted to be accurate. I also didn't confirm that your list of Romney's donors is accurate either.

However, the comparison of amounts is unparallel.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You know, I think I understand what you are trying to say as well as a person who does not have the Jewish heritage as herstory. I was thinking about this as I was on my way back in to hunt up Purl's post that I only responded to half of.
> I think that both of you deserve our full attention.
> I do not and cannot fully understand what it means to be any sort of minority. Well, female, let's discount that for the moment, though.
> Despite being raised in a working class family, I have full blown "I am a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant woman and don't stand in my way" entitlement syndrome.
> ...


========
Janet - I applaud you for having at least read the reasoning behind the importance of Israel to the Jews. It is such a conundrum - but - The Arab world is so huge , and Israel is so small. I am not saying their actions are perfect - but what can they do but cover their backs ? If they don't they will be taken over and Israel will cease to exist. this has been going on since l948 -Most people have forgotten, or never learned how the State of Israel was born, and the reasons.

I understand that they appear hard, but they know - and grew up knowing that if they relax in any way - it will be the end for them. They are a tiny spot in that area -- and they have 
green fields when surrounding areas are sand - they have fought over and over - they have been attacked for years.

I realize that there are many Arab and Palestinian people who have been affected too - They were invited to become part of Israel at the beginning but refused to do so. It is sad for them - I realize that , but I still support Israel because of the history of the treatment of Jews - they have a home and they are not going to allow that kind of treatment any more. I know I might be one of few that feel that way, but I do feel that way and the reasons have nothing to do with anything but their treatment - 6 million jews were put in the ovens in Germany -- that alone makes the fact that they have a spot on this earth that belongs to them good in my opinion.

Those 6 million people never hurt the Germans, or the Poles, or Canada or the US - yet both our countries refused to give 2 boatloads of Jewish Familes a home - and sent them back to the ovens, as no country accepted them. I understand why they are so protective of Israel. It is hard to trust when you have been treated like lepers for centuries. So, in many ways they go their own way.

I had a discussion with a Jewish woman who survived the WAR - and we got into a deep discussion about being Jewish or not being Jewish. She said to me ' You have grown up knowing where you belonged - and confident of your place in the world. I have grown up , knowing that a goodly number of people in the world hate me and want me dead - even though I have done nothing to them. "

I believe that the Slaves and their descendents have those same feelings. JMO That is why it scares me to see the hate here -- and the hate for the Obamas -- that has never happened that I remember. There was dislike of policies- and even dislike of Presidents but I am 82 years old and I have never seen Hate like there is now in the US by the Far right. It is so sad to me.

And nothing is going to change it -- the hate is so overwhelming and people refuse to say anything good - even about his wife - motherinlaw or his girls - I understand not agreeing with a Politician -- but to hate them to this extent is horrifying to me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why Government agencies can give donations to political parties:
> US Government $728,647
> US Dept of State $417,629
> US Dept of Justice $334,659
> US Dept of Health and Human Services $309,956


Good question! I thought the same thing.

I also wonder if Obama was the first to ever receive such donations.


----------



## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why Government agencies can give donations to political parties:
> US Government $728,647
> US Dept of State $417,629
> US Dept of Justice $334,659
> US Dept of Health and Human Services $309,956


Could it be that those donations are given equally to all candidates?
I truthfully don't know. It's possible.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> As to the moneies spent by this administration for travel.
> 
> We can not change the past, but this is here and now.
> 
> ...


Actually the buck never stopped with Truman or any president. Truman was a big cog in his political machine that kow towed to Big Business and the Military. This is the story for all the presidents - their job is to administer not to create policy. That unfortunately has always been in the hands of the above stated Big Corps and Military.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumnerusa said:


> Could it be that those donations are given equally to all candidates?
> I truthfully don't know. It's possible.


I didn't read their posts, I need a break from the spewing, my guess is that it is money from PACs, that means that employees set them money in a fund held by the employer and it is donated as a group.


----------



## Kanitter (Jan 26, 2014)

I can't believe all this hate has filled 90 pages.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So true, SQM, I am not sure what people don't understand during campaigns. Those running for office, but it president, senator or governor say I will do this, I will do that. Any person with knowledge of the system recognizes it as a wish list. 
Nobody can do anything on their own.



SQM said:


> Actually the buck never stopped with Truman or any president. Truman was a big cog in his political machine that kow towed to Big Business and the Military. This is the story for all the presidents - their job is to administer not to create policy. That unfortunately has always been in the hands of the above stated Big Corps and Military.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> So true, SQM, I am not sure what people don't understand during campaigns. Those running for office, but it president, senator or governor say I will do this, I will do that. Any person with knowledge of the system recognizes it as a wish list.
> Nobody can do anything on their own.


Plus they do not script their own "promises". Mouth pieces for the Big Guys!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Plus they do not script their own "promises". Mouth pieces for the Big Guys!


Have you seen my body pillow? I think it is time for a nap.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I posted some of the largest donors to Obama's campaign.
> 
> Please note donors to Romney didn't even come close to what Obama's haul was.
> 
> ...


How can you compare amounts if the lists aren't accurate, pray tell?

Where on the list of Romney's donors are Sheldon Adelson, Simmons, and Perry, who donated millions? Not that Romney needed donors---he could spend his own fortune if he had to.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82637_Page2.html


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> How can you compare amounts if the lists aren't accurate, pray tell?
> 
> Where on the list of Romney's donors are Sheldon Adelson, Simmons, and Perry, who donated millions? Not that Romney needed donors---he could spend his own fortune if he had to.
> http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82637_Page2.html


Exactly, alcameron, the money for the election went through the typical channels for the most part in the 2012 election for the Democrats. 
Mr. Adelson, starting his primary this week in Vegas, spent between 120 and 150 million at least, about 20% of that supposedly in "hidden" pockets.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Hobby Lobby Case Shows Government is in Control No Matter the Outcome
> 
> _Should business owners be forced to pay for contraceptives or pay a fine if they dont in the new ever-changing Affordable Care Act? Wrong question.
> 
> ...


I don't think I'll read more---this piece was awful enough. I'm always amazed that someone who has a successful business or someone who is a small business owner thinks that he is somehow a special individual and the rest of people who don't own a business and never want to own a business are some type of less-than-worthy individual. In my opinion, there's nothing that says the business owner is all-powerful and should have greater adulation and more rights than the rest of the population. The employees have rights, and I doubt that they knew when they were hired that certain benefits of their health care insurance was subject to the whims or religious beliefs of their employers. The employer has no right to foist his/her belief system on his/her employees.
P.S. The writer of this piece gags me with his high opinion of himself. What an arrogant jerk!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> From your response, I see you have no idea of what constitutes a contract.


Enlighten me.


----------



## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually the buck never stopped with Truman or any president. Truman was a big cog in his political machine that kow towed to Big Business and the Military. This is the story for all the presidents - their job is to administer not to create policy. That unfortunately has always been in the hands of the above stated Big Corps and Military.


I'd like to know just where you got your information on Truman.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Have you seen my body pillow? I think it is time for a nap.


I bored my favorite Cooke.

This link will wake her up.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287707/-Jon-Stewart-explains-Hobby-Lobby-s-idiotic-anti-Obamacare-rationale?detail=email


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> In this case it is the agreement between the employer and employee when they were hired. It does not need to be written.
> 
> Employee does the work as specified by the employer and the employer agrees to a pay rate and whatever benefits at the time of employment or designated benefits once 30, 60 or 90 days of satisfactory employment.
> 
> The employee cannot *demand* any more benefits than was in the original agreement. In the case of Hobby Lobby, the government is *demanding* additional benefits


Does it say somewhere that the employees knew what was and wasn't a covered benefit? And if the benefits or lack thereof don't agree with the laws of the land is it OK with you that employers don't have to follow the laws of our government?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I bored my favorite Cooke.
> 
> This link will wake her up.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287707/-Jon-Stewart-explains-Hobby-Lobby-s-idiotic-anti-Obamacare-rationale?detail=email


I watched this show. Should wake her up.


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I don't think I'll read more---this piece was awful enough. I'm always amazed that someone who has a successful business or someone who is a small business owner thinks that he is somehow a special individual and the rest of people who don't own a business and never want to own a business are some type of less-than-worthy individual. In my opinion, there's nothing that says the business owner is all-powerful and should have greater adulation and more rights than the rest of the population. The employees have rights, and I doubt that they knew when they were hired that certain benefits of their health care insurance was subject to the whims or religious beliefs of their employers. The employer has no right to foist his/her belief system on his/her employees.
> P.S. The writer of this piece gags me with his high opinion of himself. What an arrogant jerk!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Does it say somewhere that the employees knew what was and wasn't a covered benefit? And if the benefits or lack thereof don't agree with the laws of the land is it OK with you that employers don't have to follow the laws of our government?


Who says that the contract cannot change?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Well Christy just had NJ residents pay 1 million dollars for some lawyers he hired to investigate the bridge scandal for an "internal investigation," and wouldn't you know, he is completely innocent. Of course David Samson, Bridget Ann Kelley, and Bill Stepien, were never interviewed, but they still proved his innocence. The report kept calling attention to a dating relationship between Bill Stepien and Bridget Anne Kelly as if that had something to do with the bridge closing. Stepien said it ended before the GWB bridge closing and was just a distraction, but the report kept repeating it , trying to make it of some importance. They showed a picture of Dawn Zimmer yawning and one of her smiling evidently when they had a meeting, and that was their proof that she wasn't being harassed if she was smiling and yawning. If I was a NJ taxpayer I would be screaming at the top of my lungs at Christy for that million dollars.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> ==================
> No more orders Janeway - you posted that none of us were crafty I answered with the truth -people on both sides of the Political threads have taken classes with us. Politics is ignored there and rightly so- Even if you arrived on one of the workshops you would be welcomed - and that is the truth .
> 
> yes,we have an ugly history --you have threatened or said you had reported me l7 different times - although I think most of them were threats- not once did I receive a slap in the hand or a mention of it from the people you reported me to. I will answer whatever threads I wish.
> ...


See what I'm talking about you are a very ugly person as I didn't drag up the dead horse, but you not only dug it up you drug it all over this thread again.

I have reported you & yes, Admin knows how hateful you are with your postings so when you quit the "classes" you will be banned so keep up the ugly postings!

I also won't allow you to "talk down to me" as you put it so don't go there!

I have "never" threatened you with anything so don't try to "lie" about it as you usually do.

Most Canadians are nice people so I don't understand what happened to you as you are a "hit" with nasty words then leave the thread. You are the reason I said I won't ever visit Canada.

The United States of America is my country & it is where I'll stay since I'm a natural born American Indian.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> See what I'm talking about you are a very ugly person as I didn't drag up the dead horse, but you not only dug it up you drug it all over this thread again.
> 
> I have reported you & yes, Admin knows how hateful you are with your postings so when you quit the "classes" you will be banned so keep up the ugly postings!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway, you have posted this picture before about protecting this sacred land and I asked you then how you felt about the pipelines and the oil spills and the climate change etc and how the republican party continues to vote against anything that will protect this land. You refused to answer then so I will ask you again. How do you feel about what is happening to this land? I promise you Jane, Shirley is 10 times the woman you will ever be. She has compassion, understanding, she has a good heart and is a caring person, none of which I see in you. I am sure Canada is glad you aren't coming to visit.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sorry - posted , then changed my mind.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> sorry - posted , then changed my mind.


I have done that many times. Typed a bunch and then thought what a waste of time and took it all out.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for the laugh.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :shock:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are awesome Shirley. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


You have not contributed anything to this thread so keep quiet! Designer1234 is a "hit" & run poster.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Janeway, you have posted this picture before about protecting this sacred land and I asked you then how you felt about the pipelines and the oil spills and the climate change etc and how the republican party continues to vote against anything that will protect this land. You refused to answer then so I will ask you again. How do you feel about what is happening to this land? I promise you Jane, Shirley is 10 times the woman you will ever be. She has compassion, understanding, she has a good heart and is a caring person, none of which I see in you. I am sure Canada is glad you aren't coming to visit.


The darned Democrats have ruined it! You don't even know me to say the hateful things you say so stop!

I have traveled the world my dear to places you cannot even pronounce so why don't you "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well Christy just had NJ residents pay 1 million dollars for some lawyers he hired to investigate the bridge scandal for an "internal investigation," and wouldn't you know, he is completely innocent. Of course David Samson, Bridget Ann Kelley, and Bill Stepien, were never interviewed, but they still proved his innocence. The report kept calling attention to a dating relationship between Bill Stepien and Bridget Anne Kelly as if that had something to do with the bridge closing. Stepien said it ended before the GWB bridge closing and was just a distraction, but the report kept repeating it , trying to make it of some importance. They showed a picture of Dawn Zimmer yawning and one of her smiling evidently when they had a meeting, and that was their proof that she wasn't being harassed if she was smiling and yawning. If I was a NJ taxpayer I would be screaming at the top of my lungs at Christy for that million dollars.


When I briefly read about it I was amazed! This guy is so no good. I saw him being interviewed by school children and Christie was asked what his favorite film is. I guessed in a minute - I'll give you two.........................................................................................................................................................................................

'The God Father'.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for the laugh.


You are welcome as I laugh at all of your posts so we are even--need a cookie?


----------



## sumnerusa (Nov 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The darned Democrats have ruined it! You don't even know me to say the hateful things you say so stop!
> 
> I have traveled the world my dear to places you cannot even pronounce so why don't you "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar!


The Democrats have ruined it. How so?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You have not contributed anything to this thread so keep quiet! Designer1234 is a "hit" & run poster.


I will not keep quiet. Why would I ever listen to you? You are a phony. All your talk about this sacred land is phony.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The darned Democrats have ruined it! You don't even know me to say the hateful things you say so stop!
> 
> I have traveled the world my dear to places you cannot even pronounce so why don't you "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar!


Please explain what you mean by "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar![/quote]


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> When I briefly read about it I was amazed! This guy is so no good. I saw him being interviewed by school children and Christie was asked what his favorite film is. I guessed in a minute - I'll give you two.........................................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> 'The God Father'.


He just said in an interview that the people in Iowa loved him. He is so wrong. I think it was 36% approved of him.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The darned Democrats have ruined it! You don't even know me to say the hateful things you say so stop!
> 
> I have traveled the world my dear to places you cannot even pronounce so why don't you "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar!


And neither do you know me so you need to follow your own advice. You can travel wherever you wish, it makes you no better than anyone else and I am definitely not your dear.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> I will not keep quiet. Why would I ever listen to you? You are a phony. All your talk about this sacred land is phony.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> The darned Democrats have ruined it! You don't even know me to say the hateful things you say so stop!
> 
> I have traveled the world my dear to places you cannot even pronounce so why don't you "grow" up as your children are in your Avatar!


Janeway, ignore NJG. She is a one-trick pony and adds nothing but evil to the threads and repeats her standard mantra of hate for all Repubs and has one word in her vocabulary (hypocrite). I have never heard her say anything but insults to Conservatives, Republicans and Christians.

Actually, she barely says anything, just posts bloggers opinion pieces.

She'll tell you she doesn't listen to you or read your posts, and then will engage or respond to your posts. Her word is no good.

She is not worthy of your time or attention.

BTW: it is her grands in her avatar; she isn't that young


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> What a silly statement. Why would you suggest, even as a joke that Conservative men want to occupy the gynecologists offices-
> I guess it is because those same men feel, and are allowed to feel by Conservative women - that they can decide for their wives and other women what care and what procedures they are allowed to have. Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying?? But then I guess that is the truth - the Man controls the money I guess and therefore can control what happens to a woman's personal health procedures.
> ------
> Any way -- It is 9 am here and I have lots to do so will be
> ...


Only an AOW would turn my purposefully outrageous comment into a tirade over men. ARF need to get a life and stop playing the woe is me female card.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Top ten county that the US has borrowed from 12/20/13
> 
> 1. China-1268.9 billion
> 
> ...


No wonder Obama did not make the Forbes top 50 of powerful leaders in the world. He is too busy playing golf, watching TV, making NCAA brackets, lying about Obamacare, violating the constitution, playing with his red crayon and drawing lines to be jumped over.....

Anyone notice that there was no flooding of the airwaves last weekend to celebrate Obamacare's 4th birthday? I would have thought MSNBC would have had balloons and cake for all to share in this fiasco.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is this Federal or state law? What is source of information? Thank you.



joeysomma said:


> In this case it is the agreement between the employer and employee when they were hired. It does not need to be written.
> 
> Employee does the work as specified by the employer and the employer agrees to a pay rate and whatever benefits at the time of employment or designated benefits once 30, 60 or 90 days of satisfactory employment.
> 
> The employee cannot *demand* any more benefits than was in the original agreement. In the case of Hobby Lobby, the government is *demanding* additional benefits


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Especially when there's no written document of what's covered in the first place. Seems to me that all the power is on the employer side. I guess that is what we have in Right-to-work States. What happened to Unions? Can we get them back? Does it start with athletic scholarship students at Northwestern? I hope so.



Janet Cooke said:


> Who says that the contract cannot change?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the press reported it as fact.

And NJ is out another $1M and everyone else is laughing hysterically.

This is a great chance for a journalist to become famous. Challenge Christie aggressively to his face and make sure the cameras are rolling.



NJG said:


> Well Christy just had NJ residents pay 1 million dollars for some lawyers he hired to investigate the bridge scandal for an "internal investigation," and wouldn't you know, he is completely innocent. Of course David Samson, Bridget Ann Kelley, and Bill Stepien, were never interviewed, but they still proved his innocence. The report kept calling attention to a dating relationship between Bill Stepien and Bridget Anne Kelly as if that had something to do with the bridge closing. Stepien said it ended before the GWB bridge closing and was just a distraction, but the report kept repeating it , trying to make it of some importance. They showed a picture of Dawn Zimmer yawning and one of her smiling evidently when they had a meeting, and that was their proof that she wasn't being harassed if she was smiling and yawning. If I was a NJ taxpayer I would be screaming at the top of my lungs at Christy for that million dollars.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She believes it.



Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Been there. Done that.



NJG said:


> I have done that many times. Typed a bunch and then thought what a waste of time and took it all out.


----------



## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

you go girl!


dragonswing said:


> Yep, grandma always told me if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Frankly, I am just delighted that he won't be able to be re-elected.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wonder if one party claims it changes?



joeysomma said:


> It can if both agree.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me it is too vague to be useful for our discussion, but I thank you for the response.



joeysomma said:


> This is English Common Law recognized by the founders of our Country.
> 
> Besides it is* common sense.*


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Especially when there's no written document of what's covered in the first place. Seems to me that all the power is on the employer side. I guess that is what we have in Right-to-work States. What happened to Unions? Can we get them back? Does it start with athletic scholarship students at Northwestern? I hope so.


College football players just won some rights, that is a move in the right direction.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> To me it is too vague to be useful for our discussion, but I thank you for the response.


joeysomma is becoming less and less sensible. I think that Satan may have taken hold.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Been there. Done that.


Heck, I have posted, thought better of it and the grand statement has been ".".


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Only an AOW would turn my purposefully outrageous comment into a tirade over men. ARF need to get a life and stop playing the woe is me female card.


Only a total turd would use those terms to someone celebrating the connection between the US and Canada.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> No wonder Obama did not make the Forbes top 50 of powerful leaders in the world. He is too busy playing golf, watching TV, making NCAA brackets, lying about Obamacare, violating the constitution, playing with his red crayon and drawing lines to be jumped over.....
> 
> Anyone notice that there was no flooding of the airwaves last weekend to celebrate Obamacare's 4th birthday? I would have thought MSNBC would have had balloons and cake for all to share in this fiasco.


 :thumbup: Heard the left media channels spent all of *five* minutes talking about Obamacare in the past eight months! Guess the Dems don't like ObamaNoCare either.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> And the press reported it as fact.
> 
> And NJ is out another $1M and everyone else is laughing hysterically.
> 
> This is a great chance for a journalist to become famous. Challenge Christie aggressively to his face and make sure the cameras are rolling.


Hey Dems. Did you all hear about the San Fran Dem Senator that spoke the loudest about gun control and has now been incriminated by the FBI for dealing in high-power gun selling?

What about the other three Dems politicans in PA, RI, etc. being charged for corruption and the like?

Guess the Dems will be having a very difficult time beating Christie if he runs for President when they are in jail. Which is _exactly_ why the Dems attempted to destroy Christie and his character. He was the front-runner against Hillary, so they wanted to tarnish his reputation early on.

Christie, like all Americans, is presumed guilty until proven innocent. Except you all ruled him guilty because of your hatred for anyone with whom you do not agree.

Wonder how many Libs on KP will discuss the Dems I just mentioned and tell us how they are all guilty, otherwise, we can presume you are all hypocrites.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is English Common Law recognized by the founders of our Country.
> 
> Besides it is* common sense.*


of which she has *none*.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> To me it is too vague to be useful for our discussion, but I thank you for the response.


You offer nothing useful to any conversation.

How can someone your age not know or understand common law?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> English Common Law is the basis of our Government. Guess you missed that part of history class.


I learned it in high school and then again in business management classes. She was probably snoozing and oblivious to the world around her then too.

Tigers don't change their stripes.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey Dems. Did you all hear about the San Fran Dem Senator that spoke the loudest about gun control and has now been incriminated by the FBI for dealing in high-power gun selling?
> 
> What about the other three Dems politicans in PA, RI, etc. being charged for corruption and the like?
> 
> ...


What's to discuss? Leland Yee will go to trial and if found guilty will be sentenced. What's so hard about that? I see nothing has changed with you---you're the same hater-Christian you always were. If people commit crimes they go to trial. Surely, you don't believe the Christie mess is over, do,you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You offer nothing useful to any conversation.
> And your sentence did?
> 
> How can someone your age not know or understand common law?


And now you know her age? What does that have to do with anything, dear child?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I learned it in high school and then again in business management classes. She was probably snoozing and oblivious to the world around her then too.
> 
> Tigers don't change their stripes.


Ooh, business management and high school. Impressive!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You have not contributed anything to this thread so keep quiet! Designer1234 is a "hit" & run poster.


Janeway
you will NEVER match Designer's knowledge. Jealous aren't you!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> What's to discuss? Leland Yee will go to trial and if found guilty will be sentenced. What's so hard about that? I see nothing has changed with you---you're the same hater-Christian you always were. If people commit crimes they go to trial. Surely, you don't believe the Christie mess is over, do,you?


alcameron
Chris Christie's troubles are just beginning. Watch when those he threw under the Bus unload. By the way WE THE PEOPLE should ask for the Million back Christie wasted on his Lawyer friends.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I learned it in high school and then again in business management classes. She was probably snoozing and oblivious to the world around her then too.
> 
> Tigers don't change their stripes.


knitpresentgifts
and you think that your Resume is impressive? Really? Wow that tells all.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You offer nothing useful to any conversation.
> 
> How can someone your age not know or understand common law?


knitpresengifts
do you think you have an understanding of it? Honestly?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> of which she has *none*.


knitpresentgifts
and you are full of it, aren't you!


----------



## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

What???? This is a response to a great post, promoting peaceful, enjoyable, interaction within KP??? Maybe, you meant to respond to a different post. This response doesn't even make sense.



lovethelake said:


> Only an AOW would turn my purposefully outrageous comment into a tirade over men. ARF need to get a life and stop playing the woe is me female card.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I do disagree with what you wrote. You don't know anything about me. And it was bashing.


As I consider what you sometimes write as bashing.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But nobody actually said "We hate the President,"
> did they?
> 
> What's an A.H.?


It was swearing. Calling him an A.H. A _ _ H _ _ _. And some such as dancing on his grave/funeral. I can't locate the link to it. Maybe it was pulled by Adm.?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And now you know her age? What does that have to do with anything, dear child?


One would think that if she did know DameMary's age that she would show some respect. She must not have been raised by very nice people.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

mamasbird said:


> You can say whatever you want, but, I stick to my views. She is using the American people and I think it's about time someone spoke up about it.


Why?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Actually, I'm the little white dog--no, he's a boy, too. He does vocalize, though.


How cute!!


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> "Stand Your Ground" was passed while Jeb was governor.


Well, that 'splains it all. yeah it does. ugh.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

mamasbird said:


> You can make fun of me all you want, but, I stick by my words. I can't see that Obama has done a whole lot of good for this country, a lot of harm, yes, but, no good. If you don't agree, then that's your problem. I have just as much right to my opinion as anyone else. Yes, other presidents have made mistakes too, but, Obama is very snotty when he can't get his way, and I think that is the reason most people don't like him. It's his attitude! Mrs. O is just taking advantage of us all and if you can't see that, then there's no hope for you.


Right, they are too uppity. They better get back to the master's plantation. NOT!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is this Federal or state law? What is source of information? Thank you.


Don't know if anyone has listened to this, but pretty interesting.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/28/1287909/-Papantonio-Hobby-Lobby-Is-DOA?detail=email


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Designer, you & I do have an ugly history, but I knew you were posting as I didn't respond so why did you find it necessary to post your usual nasty reply to me? Quit posting to me as I was not referring to you as yes, I do know you are crafty so don't respond to me again!


This is the public section. You may not be aware of this?


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

What is an AOW? I am appalled at the nastiness from the right wingers. Absolutely pure hatred comes from them all. Bless their little hearts! 
I decided to check in here to see what was happening. Same S--t, different day. Back to knitting.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> I will not keep quiet. Why would I ever listen to you? You are a phony. All your talk about this sacred land is phony.


Sounds like you are making racists statements about Native Americans, shame on you. So one could conclude that you disagree with her because she is a Native American not because of her beliefs. Reminds me about how AOW constantly say that because a Conservative disagree with Obama it is because he is Black.

Might be on to something


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Only a total turd would use those terms to someone celebrating the connection between the US and Canada.


Maybe you should consider reading classes. My comment to her was about men overloading OBGYN offices, since they have to pay for that service because of Obamacare.

While you are at it maybe a class on improving your vocabulary so you would not have to rely on such vulgar language. But then again, you may like to live with a gutter mouth, it is your choice.


----------



## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

shayfaye said:


> What is an AOW? I am appalled at the nastiness from the right wingers. Absolutely pure hatred comes from them all. Bless their little hearts!
> I decided to check in here to see what was happening. Same S--t, different day. Back to knitting.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> One would think that if she did know DameMary's age that she would show some respect. She must not have been raised by very nice people.


AOW (which you have stated you are part of that age group) need to earn respect, it is not a God given right. I mean with the way you sling foul language, how does that earn you respect? It doesn't. Just because you hit a certain decade in life does not entitle you to automatic respect. But then again, libs are into entitlements, so I guess I should not be surprised that you want another one without working or earning it


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, BTW, I've found that if you delete what you've written, no not send it, and use the backward arrow, voila! Vanish. Magic.



Janet Cooke said:


> Heck, I have posted, thought better of it and the grand statement has been ".".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess that makes ltl a tt.



Janet Cooke said:


> Only a total turd would use those terms to someone celebrating the connection between the US and Canada.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I guess you ignore everything that doesn't fit your needs. Agree to disagree...and keep your opinions on other people to yourself.



joeysomma said:


> English Common Law is the basis of our Government. Guess you missed that part of history class. .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, you like that avatar, do you? Observant.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I learned it in high school and then again in business management classes. She was probably snoozing and oblivious to the world around her then too.
> 
> Tigers don't change their stripes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yep. I bet she has brown eyes and brown stuff coming out of her ears. snark.



Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> and you are full of it, aren't you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ute4kp said:


> Right, they are too uppity. They better get back to the master's plantation. NOT!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> It was swearing. Calling him an A.H. A _ _ H _ _ _. And some such as dancing on his grave/funeral. I can't locate the link to it. Maybe it was pulled by Adm.?


It wasn't pulled; the Libs regularly swear and type vulgar words; they must not have much of a vocabulary.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It sure is. Almost makes me hope HL wins in Supreme Court. Must do more research.



NJG said:


> Don't know if anyone has listened to this, but pretty interesting.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/28/1287909/-Papantonio-Hobby-Lobby-Is-DOA?detail=email


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How old are you? I assume it's fair to ask since you brought it into the conversation. Thank you.



lovethelake said:


> AOW (which you have stated you are part of that age group) need to earn respect, it is not a God given right. I mean with the way you sling foul language, how does that earn you respect? It doesn't. Just because you hit a certain decade in life does not entitle you to automatic respect. But then again, libs are into entitlements, so I guess I should not be surprised that you want another one without working or earning it


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe you should consider reading classes. My comment to her was about men overloading OBGYN offices, since they have to pay for that service because of Obamacare.
> 
> While you are at it maybe a class on improving your vocabulary so you would not have to rely on such vulgar language. But then again, you may like to live with a gutter mouth, it is your choice.


What I seem to have to live with is you responding to my comments regardless of claiming that you were not going to read anything that I said ever again because I am too uneducated to bother with. 
It is really too bad that you have rescinded that promise. I was looking forward to not seeing your slights and insults.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I guess that makes ltl a tt.


Among other things, yes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> AOW (which you have stated you are part of that age group) need to earn respect, it is not a God given right. I mean with the way you sling foul language, how does that earn you respect? It doesn't. Just because you hit a certain decade in life does not entitle you to automatic respect. But then again, libs are into entitlements, so I guess I should not be surprised that you want another one without working or earning it


 :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Ah, you like that avatar, do you? Observant.


Who doesn't like tigers; they are beautiful animals. Yes, I'm very observant, glad you noticed.

I'm going to change my avatar to one I made in tribute to Madame Vocal Jody Blighter because Janet Cooke said recently she doesn't like my present avatar. I sure hope Vocal likes it.

I'm here to please! (Not that anyone can please any of the Libs on KP.)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Yep. I bet she has brown eyes and brown stuff coming out of her ears. snark.


So, you just wrote this post below six minutes ago; no self-control snoozi?



damemary said:


> And I guess you ignore everything that doesn't fit your needs. Agree to disagree...*and keep your opinions on other people to yourself.*


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hey! I love everyone's new avatars. Her Grace will need a new salutation now that she is a tiger. KGB - totally hip and cool. 

Sent from the New and Improved - Pleasant SQM


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What can I say? Sometimes I'm just a comedienne with little control. I pace my replies at my own pleasure.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hey! I love everyone's new avatars. Her Grace will need a new salutation now that she is a tiger. KGB - totally hip and cool.
> 
> Sent from the New and Improved - Pleasant SQM


Yes, "I am who I am", that must be in honor of the new NOAH movie that is out today. 
She is announcing that she is God again, it seems.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, "I am who I am", that must be in honor of the new NOAH movie that is out today.
> She is announcing that she is God again, it seems.


Didn't Popeye say something to the same effect using 'yam' instead of 'am'?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, "I am who I am", that must be in honor of the new NOAH movie that is out today.
> She is announcing that she is God again, it seems.


Nope - you are wrong again.

It's a tribute to Vocal Lisa/Cheeky Blighter/Madame La Farge.

Ask her, she'll explain it since you don't understand it.

I don't think Jody likes it though.

But the sloth does, she even thinks it is hip and cool!

Madame Vocal J. Blighter has yet to voice her opinion. I know she will.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sounds like you are making racists statements about Native Americans, shame on you. So one could conclude that you disagree with her because she is a Native American not because of her beliefs. Reminds me about how AOW constantly say that because a Conservative disagree with Obama it is because he is Black.
> 
> Might be on to something


Really funny how you can turn something around to try to make it mean something entirely different that what was written. I still have the same question I have had for many months. Jane professes to love this sacred land. My question is does she really or is she for all the pipelines and getting rid of regulations like the right is pushing. She won't answer so I have to assume she is a phony and is putting her Native American heritage in 2nd place after her loyalty to the right wing. 
I said nothing racist about Native Americans. I admire Native Americans because of their love of this land and wanting to take care of it. If Jane really feels that way about this land and is against the pipelines and really wants regulations in place to protect the land, then she can say so. She is capable of answering the question.


----------



## cattdages (Aug 3, 2011)

angelmaddy said:


> I voted for Obama and I stand behind him. Look at the mess he is trying to clear up, it can't be done in the 8 years he is in office. You have to give him credit for trying. I'd like to see anybody else do better.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Didn't Popeye say something to the same effect using 'yam' instead of 'am'?


Yeah, yams and spinach. Yum.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> What is an AOW? I am appalled at the nastiness from the right wingers. Absolutely pure hatred comes from them all. Bless their little hearts!
> I decided to check in here to see what was happening. Same S--t, different day. Back to knitting.


You have not been reading the ugliness from the Democrats so get your head out of the sand!

Look at what you wrote: Same S--t, different day~~ clean up your own nasty words!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Why?


Are you for real???? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cattdages said:


> :thumbup:


Obo isn't trying to clean anything up as we are much worse off since he was illegally put into office. He entered college as a foreign student!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> AOW (which you have stated you are part of that age group) need to earn respect, it is not a God given right. I mean with the way you sling foul language, how does that earn you respect? It doesn't. Just because you hit a certain decade in life does not entitle you to automatic respect. But then again, libs are into entitlements, so I guess I should not be surprised that you want another one without working or earning it


lovethelake
Please note that our paychecks show a good chunk having been taken out for ENTITLEMENTS like Medicare and SSI. Those 
monies have been poorly managed or I should state USED for other purposes. Now the GOP is trying to steal from the Postal Workers. Take from the Poor and give to the Rich is their constant Motto. Share the wealth is their idea. Suck the Life out of the working stiff. Like Chris Christie paying a Million to HIS Laywers for a bogus investigation. What a Joke that investigation is. Waiting for Mrs. Kelly to unload, that should be enlightening.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Please note that our paychecks show a good chunk having been taken out for ENTITLEMENTS like Medicare and SSI. Those
> monies have been poorly managed or I should state USED for other purposes. Now the GOP is trying to steal from the Postal Workers. Take from the Poor and give to the Rich is their constant Motto. Share the wealth is their idea. Suck the Life out of the working stiff. Like Chris Christie paying a Million to HIS Laywers for a bogus investigation. What a Joke that investigation is. Waiting for Mrs. Kelly to unload, that should be enlightening.


Yes, they really should not have maligned Brigette Kelly, apparently they have less respect for women than for the male voter. Oh, what am I saying? We have seen Chris Christie's disrespect for women repeatedly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Obo isn't trying to clean anything up as we are much worse off since he was illegally put into office. He entered college as a foreign student!


Janeway
I know you hate President Obama and our First Lady. Their intelligence is a thorn in your bottom - we know it well. You resent the fact that HE makes decisions contrary to the prev. administration where others called the shots and led us into
nothing but War and Debt. The Stock Market has NEVER done as well as under President Obama, the Automobile Industry has recovered tremendously and the housing industry is on a steep upswing. Not just houses but more like Mansions being build all around us and sold as quickly as finished. 
We know that you hoped that President Obama could not handle all of the mess Bush left for him to wade through but he disappointed you terribly. His level head and clear, long term thinking is serving our Nation well. By the way, there will be future Presidents of color, get used to it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> The Stock Market has NEVER done as well as under President Obama, the Automobile Industry has recovered tremendously and the housing industry is on a steep upswing. Not just houses but more like Mansions being build all around us and sold as quickly as finished.
> 
> His level head and clear, long term thinking is serving our Nation well.


Absolutely hilarious! You first stated in your prior post (see (9:10:54) that it is the Republicans who want to steal from the poor and make themselves wealthy and ignore the poor. Now, here you are dribbling on about how well Obama has served the most elitist and wealthy!

You're correct on one point: Obama *is* serving the top earners *and* happily and the stock market responded. Obama *is* ignoring the poor and the middle class.

Of course, you are wrong on the other points as always.

Overall, a :thumbup: on your post though, Ingried.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> "ENTITLEMENTS?" ENTITLEMENTS are food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, fuel assistance, child care, Obama phones, etc. Anything you have received from the government that you have not pad for. EVERY WORKING American is paying for Social Security and Medicare.


I think Ingried logged off because her entitlement of minutes to bash the GOP on the community computer are up.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Absolutely hilarious! You first stated in your prior post that it is the Republicans who want to steal from the poor and make themselves wealthy and ignore the poor. Now, here you are dribbling on about how well Obama has served the most elitist and wealthy!
> 
> You're correct on one point: Obama IS serving the top earners AND happily. Obama *is* ignoring the poor and the middle class.
> 
> ...


Whose retirement funds are those in the stock market? 
I bet your husband socks away his $25. a week.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think Ingried logged off because her entitlement of minutes to bash the GOP on the community computer are up.


A good Christian lady, you have there, Folks.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> "ENTITLEMENTS?" ENTITLEMENTS are food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, fuel assistance, child care, Obama phones, etc. Anything you have received from the government that you have not paid for. EVERY WORKING American is paying for Social Security and Medicare.


A good Christian lady you have there, Folks.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> I know you hate President Obama and our First Lady. Their intelligence is a thorn in your bottom - we know it well. You resent the fact that HE makes decisions contrary to the prev. administration where others called the shots and led us into
> nothing but War and Debt. The Stock Market has NEVER done as well as under President Obama, the Automobile Industry has recovered tremendously and the housing industry is on a steep upswing. Not just houses but more like Mansions being build all around us and sold as quickly as finished.
> We know that you hoped that President Obama could not handle all of the mess Bush left for him to wade through but he disappointed you terribly. His level head and clear, long term thinking is serving our Nation well. By the way, there will be future Presidents of color, get used to it.


Sorry, sweetie, but Obo isn't smart & hasn't cleaned anything but has put us into debt for nothing. Putin knows he is a joke!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> A good Christian lady you have there, Folks.


Janet, Janet, you don't claim any religion so keep your nasty mouth shut!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Whose retirement funds are those in the stock market?
> I bet your husband socks away his $25. a week.


I'll bet you don't have $25.00 each week to "sock" away. Dream on lady!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I'll bet you don't have $25.00 each week to "sock" away. Dream on lady!


I am already retired, you silly thing, and I was able to retire at 60. That was not because I am sick and have a bad heart (in more ways than one) it was because of good planning.

Have any suggestions about what my new car should be, Janie?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am already retired, you silly thing, and I was able to retire at 60. That was not because I am sick and have a bad heart (in more ways than one) it was because of good planning.
> 
> Have any suggestions about what my new car should be, Janie?


Oy! My Cookie is such a great planner. I would buy a funky car like a smart car. That would solve parking problems in the city. Plus it would guarantee that I would not die from a long protracted illness, since a tap on the back fender would probably finish me off in a second. Sorry KLM - I have no need for a car in NYC so I will stay alive for awhile yet.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am already retired, you silly thing, and I was able to retire at 60. That was not because I am sick and have a bad heart (in more ways than one) it was because of good planning.
> 
> Have any suggestions about what my new car should be, Janie?


No, but I'm driving a new Chevy Impala with all of the bells & whistles! Red no less!

I was forced to retire at age 57 because of a heart/lung condition. Went to Florida for most of the winter & had the time of my life. Temp was about 85 each day.

What did you do all winter except shovel snow if you have that weather?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Gotta leave as we eat out every day for lunch--going to Olive Garden. Chat later.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You have not been reading the ugliness from the Democrats so get your head out of the sand!
> 
> Look at what you wrote: Same S--t, different day~~ clean up your own nasty words!


So you turn around and repeat it and somehow it is ok for you to print it again. Clean up your nasty words. It doesn't make any difference who did it first.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Please note that our paychecks show a good chunk having been taken out for ENTITLEMENTS like Medicare and SSI. Those
> monies have been poorly managed or I should state USED for other purposes. Now the GOP is trying to steal from the Postal Workers. Take from the Poor and give to the Rich is their constant Motto. Share the wealth is their idea. Suck the Life out of the working stiff. Like Chris Christie paying a Million to HIS Laywers for a bogus investigation. What a Joke that investigation is. Waiting for Mrs. Kelly to unload, that should be enlightening.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, they really should not have maligned Brigette Kelly, apparently they have less respect for women than for the male voter. Oh, what am I saying? We have seen Chris Christie's disrespect for women repeatedly.


Yes, all the information about Kelly and Stepien came from people other then the two of them, so what is it, nothing but office gossip.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Sorry, sweetie, but Obo isn't smart & hasn't cleaned anything but has put us into debt for nothing. Putin knows he is a joke!


Why are republicans so in love with Putin all of a sudden?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I'll bet you don't have $25.00 each week to "sock" away. Dream on lady!


Janet has never been good understanding numbers, taxes, accounting, the economy, compensation, the stock market, real estate, investing, insurance, pensions, estate planning, business ownership and anything related to those topics. Note this is not an all inclusive list either.

She is, however, envious of the blessings I have and curious of what I do for a living and how much I and my husband earn and our net worth I assume.

Fancy that! She'll feign no interest, yet keep referring to me and my private life.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Gotta leave as we eat out every day for lunch--going to Olive Garden. Chat later.


Grow up, you're not a child playing I'm smarter than you.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The political narrative of red states vs. blue states and makers vs. takers may need an update, according to a report released Thursday finding states that vote Republican are more likely to rely more heavily on federal government investments.

The WalletHub analysis of government data found red states rank higher on average in terms of dependency on federal government money than blue states. Mississippi, New Mexico, Alabama, Louisiana, and Maine top the list of dependent states while Delaware, Illinois, Minnesota, New Jersey, and Connecticut rank at the bottom.

The rankings relied on data, such as return on taxes paid to the government  or how many dollars each state gets back for what it pays in federal taxes, federal funding as a percentage of state revenue, and number of federal employees per capita. While South Carolina didnt make the top five in terms of overall dependency, the Palmetto state has the highest return on taxpayer investment, with citizens raking in nearly $8 from the federal government for every $1 they pay into the pot.

The report found the least wealthy states were more likely to receive more federal support, and also found acorrelation between a states federal dependency and tax rates.

What if, for example, a particular state can afford not to tax its residents at high rates because its receiving disproportionately more funding from the federal government than states with apparently oppressive tax codes? report author John Kiernan wrote in his analysis. That would change the narrative significantly, revealing federal dependence where bold, efficient stewardship was once thought to preside.

The idea of the American freeloader burst into the public consciousness when #47percent started trending on Twitter, he added. And while the notion is senselessly insulting to millions of hardworking Americans, it is true that some states receive a far higher return on their federal income tax investment than others.

The analysis becomes the latest nail in the coffin on Mitt Romeys repeatedly-debunked suggestion during the 2012 election that those most dependent on the government were more likely to be President Obamas supporters.

More recently, Romneys former running-mate, Rep. Paul Ryan, has become a leading voice in his party discussing issues of poverty. He came under fire earlier this month after arguing poverty in inner cities was created in part by a culture problem and lack of work ethic in generations of men. Ryan later said those comments were inarticulate and said he intended to accept an invitation from members of the Congressional Black Caucus to discuss and explore the issue further.

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/red-states-more-dependent-government-money


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

AN OPEN LETTER TO THE PEOPLE WHO HATE OBAMA MORE THAN THEY LOVE AMERICA

I meet you all the time. You hate Obama. You hate gay people. You hate black people, immigrants, Muslims, labor unions, women who want the right to make choices concerning their bodies, you hate em all. You hate being called racist. You hate being called a bigot. Maybe if you talked about creating jobs more than you talk about why you hate gay people we wouldn't call you bigots. Maybe if you talked about black people without automatically assuming they are on food stamps while demanding their birth certificates we wouldn't call you racist. You hate socialism and social justice. You hate regulations and taxes and spending and the Government. You hate.

Image Hosting by PictureTrail.com You like war. You like torture. You like Jesus. I don't know how in the h--- any of that is compatible, but no one ever accused you haters of being over-committed to ideological consistency. You like people who look like you or at least hate most of the things that you hate. You hate everything else.

Now, I know you profess to love our country and the founding fathers (unless you are reminded that they believed in the separation of church and state), but I need to remind you that America is NOT what Fox News says it is. America is a melting pot, it always has been. We are a multi-cultural amalgamation of all kinds of people, and yet you still demonize everyone who is not a rich, white, heterosexual christian male or his submissive and obedient wife.

You hate liberals, moderates, h---, anyone who disagrees with Conservative dogma as espoused by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. You hate em.

Well, here are the facts, Jack. If you hate the Government then you are unqualified to manage it. If you hate gay people more than you love America than you should take your own advice and get the h--- out. There are several countries that are openly hostile to gay people, but they are full of brown people and you don't like them much either from what I understand. It looks like you are screwed, but that's not what I am here to tell you.

More rant below the fold . . .

Now that you have thrown everything and the kitchen sink at President Obama and it still hasn't worked you are panicking. Obama's approval ratings are still near 50% despite your best efforts to undermine the economy and America's recovery at every step you can. You tried to hold the American economy hostage to force America into default on its' debts, debts that YOU rang up under Bush, so you could blame it on Obama and it failed. You've used the filibuster more than any other Congress ever, going so far as to vote against providing health care access to 9/11 first responders. You remember 9/11, don't you, it's that thing you used to lie us into a war in Iraq, and then when Obama killed Bin Laden and ended the war in Iraq you told people that he hates America and wants the troops to fail. You monsters. You hate Obama with a passion, despite the fact that he is a tax cutting, deficit reducing war President who undermines civil rights and delivers corporate friendly watered down reforms that benefit special interests just like a Republican. You call him a Kenyan. You call him a socialist. You dance with your hatred singing it proudly in the rain like it was a 1950's musical.

Frankly, you disgust me. Your hatred nauseates me. Your bigotry offends me. Your racism revolts me.

Dear haters, I am openly questioning your patriotism.

I think you hate gays, Obama, black people, poor people, all of us, women, atheists and agnostics, Latinos, Muslims, Liberals, all of us, I think you hate every one who isn't exactly like you, and I think you hate us more than you love your country.

I think you hate gay soldiers more than you want America to win its wars.

I don't even think you want America to win wars, you just want America to have wars, never ending wars and the war profiteering it generates. You love that kind of spending, you love spending on faith based initiatives and abstinence based sex education (George Carlin would have loved that one), you love spending on subsidies for profitable oil corporations, you spend like drunken sailors when you are in the White House, but if it is a Democrat then suddenly you cheer when America doesn't get the Olympics because it might make the black President look bad. But oooh you love your country, you say, and you want it back. Well listen here skippy, it isn't your country, you don't own it, it is our country, and America is NOT the religiously extremist Foxbots who hate science, elitist professors and having a vibrant and meaningful sex life with someone we love if Rick Santorum doesn't approve of it. Rick Santorum isn't running for America's f------ high school dance chaperone, he should probably just shut the h--- up about sex, but he can't because he has nothing else to run on.

Republicans can NOT win on the issues. They've got NOTHING. All they have is a divide and conquer class war that pits ignorant racist and bigoted people against the rest of us in a meaningless battle of wedge issues and the already proven to fail George W. Bush agenda again of tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, privatization and war profiteering and nothing else, so all they can do is blame black people, gays the government, anybody and everyone else for their own failings. The party of personal responsibility, my a--.

But they love multi-national corporations, just ask a gay hating and racist religious extremist if they think Corporations are people and they will gladly agree, but if you ask them if gay people are people they aren't so sure.

Dear haters, you are the cruel, heartless misinformed a----les who would sell America out to Haliburton in a heartbeat, you would rather pay ZERO taxes than you would see a newly born baby get access to quality health care, you cheer when we discuss denying health care to young people with preventable diseases, and you boo when we discuss the First Ladies plan to cut back on childhood obesity. You are a cross to carry and a flag to wrap yourself in away from being the people who Sinclair Lewis warned us about, but I guarantee that if Fox News told you to dress that way you would, because you are the same blind, ignorant and closed minded dunces who drove this country into a civil war years ago because you are bound to the notion that some men are more equal than others. In short, the reason I proudly wear my union army hat is because of seditious sell outs like you who constantly f--- over working class Americans so a foreign entrepreneur like Rupert Murdoch can get a bigger tax break. If corporations are people, they are neither American patriots nor capable of love. Just like you.

So stop wearing your hate with pride. Stop celebrating your anti-science, anti-math ignorance. Stop using code words to mask your bigotry like "family values", especially when you hate my family and when you stand on the same stage as a guy who has had three marriages or if you share a seat in the Senate with a guy who cheated on his wife with hookers while wearing diapers. You should be ashamed. I know that you are just doing this to motivate your misinformed hate cult base because if they actually knew that your ideas will make them poorer than they are now, they would never vote for you. You are doing your best to impoverish your countrymen so rich people can get bigger tax breaks and you can keep on delivering corporate welfare to the special interests who have bribed you, and I am disgusted by the way you gleefully parade your hatred with aplomb. I don't think you do love America. At least, not as much as you hate everyone in America who isn't exactly like you.

You should think about that, and maybe get some help.

And for the record, I do not hate you. I am embarrassed by you and nauseated by your cruel and thoughtless behavior and your all consuming greed, but I do not hate you. I forgive you and I hope you can change someday, but I don't hate you. You have enough hate in you for the rest of us as it is.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/09/1053088/-An-open-letter-to-the-people-who-hate-O...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Oy! My Cookie is such a great planner. I would buy a funky car like a smart car. That would solve parking problems in the city. Plus it would guarantee that I would not die from a long protracted illness, since a tap on the back fender would probably finish me off in a second. Sorry KLM - I have no need for a car in NYC so I will stay alive for awhile yet.


I use public transportation to go into the city, SS, I am kind of thinking electric and then I can just rent a car for the few long trips when the electrical cord won't reach.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janet has never been good understanding numbers, taxes, accounting, the economy, compensation, the stock market, real estate, investing, insurance, pensions, estate planning, business ownership and anything related to those topics. Note this is not an all inclusive list either.
> 
> She is, however, envious of the blessings I have and curious of what I do for a living and how much I and my husband earn and our net worth I assume.
> 
> Fancy that! She'll feign no interest, yet keep referring to me and my private life.


Yup, jokes are one of my favorite pastimes.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

Thank-you NJG for posting these links.

I predict that there will be rants from the right that will contain incoherent blanket statements. Let's see what happens!

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/red-states-more-dependent-government-money

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/09/1053088/-An-open-letter-to-the-people-who-hate-O...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> Thank-you NJG for posting these links.
> 
> I predict that there will be rants from the right that will contain incoherent blanket statements. Let's see what happens!
> 
> ...


Of course, I expect that too. Because they come from MSNBC and DailyKos, they won't read them, when actually they are the ones that need them the most, especially the second one rings so true about them.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Grow up, you're not a child playing I'm smarter than you.


You wish you could go out for lunch daily--I understand you don't have the funds so you make snide remarks to me. LOL


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You wish you could go out for lunch daily--I understand you don't have the funds so you make snide remarks to me. LOL


That's really funny, aren't you the one who was bragging about a $6. all you could eat buffet?
How is that Meals on Wheels these days?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I use public transportation to go into the city, SS, I am kind of thinking electric and then I can just rent a car for the few long trips when the electrical cord won't reach.


I knew it, I knew it, you think you need an electric cord attached to the electric cars!!! LOL, what a deal!!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That's really funny, aren't you the one who was bragging about a $6. all you could eat buffet?


Sweetie, the Olive Garden isn't a buffet. Dream on! You must hit the buffet's since you know the costs of them. I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!

Hubby just asked if I wanted to go to the Outback! Chat later


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yup, jokes are one of my favorite pastimes.


From what you are saying, you don't even own a car--do you rent in the low-income area is why you take public transportation? The truth will relieve your pain!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Of course, I expect that too. Because they come from MSNBC and DailyKos, they won't read them, when actually they are the ones that need them the most, especially the second one rings so true about them.


You are unusually cranky today as we must be rubbing you the "right" way!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> From what you are saying, you don't even own a car--do you rent in the low-income area is why you take public transportation? The truth will relieve your pain!


 I know that you think that you are creating pain for me. The fact is the only pain I feel when I read someone like you take pleasure in what you imagine is a sad situation for someone is how awful your emotional state must be that you could even go there.

Between you and your fantasies about me living in poverty, and that pal of yours and her suppositions about why I don't have a man in my life and why I closed my business? 
What a sad, sad, display of putrid pusfilled, pronoucements. 
I am not often speechless, it is astounding to me that you would want anyone to see you say those things. 
Hundreds of people read these pages.
I feel so sorry for you that they see you like that.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Janeee,

Have you had a busy day today?

I partook in a letter signing campaign in my bldg. and now I am totally tired. I was sort of the border collie, rounding up the tenants to sign letters to our elected officials. 

Oh Janeee it was ever so tiring. Being an old age pensioner, it is all too much.

Anyway, stay happy and cool. Post a good poster - one that is funny. I can use a good laugh. You seem good with google image or wherever you find them.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You wish you could go out for lunch daily--I understand you don't have the funds so you make snide remarks to me. LOL


Actually I have never wished that I could go out for lunch every day. Just because you think it is the thing to do, doesn't mean anything to the majority of people in this country. Most of us have things in our lives that we care about way more than going out for lunch every day. If you choose to call my comments snide, go for it. I could care less. I know you and a few others think we democrats are all envious of you and your cohorts, but you are so wrong it is laughable. We are not envious of those that we think are disgusting.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Sweetie, the Olive Garden isn't a buffet. Dream on! You must hit the buffet's since you know the costs of them. I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!
> 
> Hubby just asked if I wanted to go to the Outback! Chat later


You mean when you go to a buffet, you eat things that aren't good for you. You must learn a little self control.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are unusually cranky today as we must be rubbing you the "right" way!


You need to read what I posted from DailyKos Jane. It is all about you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You wish you could go out for lunch daily--I understand you don't have the funds so you make snide remarks to me. LOL


Such a typically republican thing to say.


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## eeaton (Apr 13, 2012)

This is really a pointless conversation since no one on this thread is willing to do anything but be unkind , dogmatic and smug. I have been trying to stop the updates from coming to me for two days. I have unchecked the watch box yet again.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You wish you could go out for lunch daily--I understand you don't have the funds so you make snide remarks to me. LOL


oops


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> oops


Thank you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> You need to read what I posted from DailyKos Jane. It is all about you.


Oh, goody, I love things about me as you are allowing others to rest!

Let me see who I can write about you! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

eeaton said:


> This is really a pointless conversation since no one on this thread is willing to do anything but be unkind , dogmatic and smug. I have been trying to stop the updates from coming to me for two days. I have unchecked the watch box yet again.


Just because you get the notice that someone has posted doesn't mean you have to open the thread.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> You mean when you go to a buffet, you eat things that aren't good for you. You must learn a little self control.


I don't go to buffets, can't you read?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you.


 :shock:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Sweetie, the Olive Garden isn't a buffet. Dream on! You must hit the buffet's since you know the costs of them. I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!
> 
> Hubby just asked if I wanted to go to the Outback! Chat later


This sure sounded like some form of buffet. It sounds like you were watching your diet go out the window.

Well, the $6.00 dinner is why they have the extra money for the vets they drive.

General Chit-Chat (non-knitting talk) -> "War on Women" #4 (go to message)	Feb 26, 14 21:38:37
Poor Purl wrote:
It sounds as though you're having a great time. Is this a vacation, or do you live there?

We are here visiting friends, but rented a condo until April 1. We will leave before 3-30.

Poor Purl wrote:
"G-d's waiting room." It would be funny if only it weren't true. I once read that most social engagements in Florida happen in doctor's waiting rooms. That's where a lot of people spend their days.

Oh, poor Purl, you have missed the boat as where DH & are staying is a very busy place with several activities going on at the same time. For instance tonight, we had Roast Beef, carrots, real mashed potatoes, salad, iced tea or coffee, & a variety of homemade cakes/pies/cookies. The tickets were only $6.00.

Today, I went swimming, got in the hot tub then went to the above dinner & have the choice of playing several different types of cards, couples dance, playing shuffleboard, knitting, crocheting or quilting, Bible Study or Wed. church service, or a book club meeting.

Our temp is 78 degrees so eat your heart out I'm in Florida!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I know that you think that you are creating pain for me. The fact is the only pain I feel when I read someone like you take pleasure in what you imagine is a sad situation for someone is how awful your emotional state must be that you could even go there.
> 
> Between you and your fantasies about me living in poverty, and that pal of yours and her suppositions about why I don't have a man in my life and why I closed my business?
> What a sad, sad, display of putrid pusfilled, pronoucements.
> ...


I wonder if she ever learned the word kind?

:thumbup: :shock: :twisted:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - you are wrong again.
> 
> It's a tribute to Vocal Lisa/Cheeky Blighter/Madame La Farge.
> 
> ...


kpg
it may be a pain to be so lonely. I bet not even any animal takes to you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Sorry, sweetie, but Obo isn't smart & hasn't cleaned anything but has put us into debt for nothing. Putin knows he is a joke!


Janeway
Looking for Friends? Won't find one in me, I shall NEVER be your sweetie. But then I do not expect respect from the likes of you.
The joke obviously is you. You have missed years of valuable information. Try to catch up at least a little.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, I love things about me as you are allowing others to rest!
> 
> Let me see who I can write about you! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Janeway
your avatar needs a correction. PhD applied to you means piled high and deep. Would like to add another description but will leave that to your imagination.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't go to buffets, can't you read?


Yes Jane, let me explain what I meant as you are the one who can't read or comprehend what you have read. You said, and I quote, " I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!" My comment is that the "reason" you don't go to buffets is because you have no self control and eat things that aren't good for you. You seem to misunderstand the majority of things that are posted. What is your problem?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Yes Jane, let me explain what I meant as you are the one who can't read or comprehend what you have read. You said, and I quote, " I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!" My comment is that the "reason" you don't go to buffets is because you have no self control and eat things that aren't good for you. You seem to misunderstand the majority of things that are posted. What is your problem?


NJG
.....your problem" there exists more than one. Check it out.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> This sure sounded like some form of buffet. It sounds like you were watching your diet go out the window.
> 
> Well, the $6.00 dinner is why they have the extra money for the vets they drive.
> 
> ...


This $6.00 dinner was prepared in the club house for people who were staying in this group do homes. It was not a buffet as it was served to you--big difference.

See this is what I'm talking about you read what you want to read into a sentence without really getting the message.

Poorpurl, I feel sorry for you you have my sympathy as you just cannot stay nice!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes Jane, let me explain what I meant as you are the one who can't read or comprehend what you have read. You said, and I quote, " I don't go to buffets as I watch my diet!" My comment is that the "reason" you don't go to buffets is because you have no self control and eat things that aren't good for you. You seem to misunderstand the majority of things that are posted. What is your problem?


I don't have any problem but you are the one who turns everything around to suit your uneducated mind. Wake up!

You are a very demented person, but have cute grands or children.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> .....your problem" there exists more than one. Check it out.


Oh, Huck, Ingried or whatever name you are using these days, have a cup of tea & a cookie to calm your nerves!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't have any problem but you are the one who turns everything around to suit your uneducated mind. Wake up!
> 
> You are a very demented person, but have cute grands or children.


In one reply, you called me uneducated and demented without even knowing me. Yes you do have a problem.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janeway, please allow me an observation. Your talk of Florida, eating out etc just sounds like bragging about nothing by someone who isn't used to doing much of anything. 

By all means, enjoy what you wish, but it's so much more interesting to the rest of us to discuss a topic. 

I wish we could have a meeting of the minds.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just opened new topic: With Age Comes Knowledge. Love to hear your thoughts.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just opened new topic: With Age Comes Knowledge. Love to hear your thoughts.


No, thanks, as I have better things to do than engage with you & your friends! This way, all of you can argue among yourselves!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Janeway, please allow me an observation. Your talk of Florida, eating out etc just sounds like bragging about nothing by someone who isn't used to doing much of anything.
> 
> By all means, enjoy what you wish, but it's so much more interesting to the rest of us to discuss a topic.
> 
> I wish we could have a meeting of the minds.


I have traveled to parts of our world that you couldn't even pronounce so keep on trying to slam about Florida as I'm sure you haven't even been in that state. Ever been in Singapore, Hong Kong?

Did you shovel lots of snow this winter? I enjoyed the nice weather of around 65-85 daily & went swimming daily!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I have traveled to parts of our world that you couldn't even pronounce so keep on trying to slam about Florida as I'm sure you haven't even been in that state. Ever been in Singapore, Hong Kong?
> 
> Did you shovel lots of snow this winter? I enjoyed the nice weather of around 65-85 daily & went swimming daily!


You sound like a very conceited, self centered person. All you like to do is brag about yourself and what you get to do. It could be all lies, or it could be true, as we have no way of knowing. Whatever the case you sound like someone the majority of us would not enjoy spending time with. Why you seem to take such pleasure in talking down to everyone is beyond me, but I have no time for you anymore.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am a world-traveller who feels no need to brag about it. I enjoy experiencing other cultures. I have been to Florida before. Didn't like it. The only snow I saw this winter was on the T V. Winter temps a little warmer, but it's 'a dry heat' and I like it this way.



Janeway said:


> I have traveled to parts of our world that you couldn't even pronounce so keep on trying to slam about Florida as I'm sure you haven't even been in that state. Ever been in Singapore, Hong Kong?
> 
> Did you shovel lots of snow this winter? I enjoyed the nice weather of around 65-85 daily & went swimming daily!


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## minimouse45 (Aug 25, 2013)

I think EVERY president has added family members to the travel list. Personally, he is my favorite president. Can't think of any president that had to fix so many messes, draw down endless conflicts, kill OSL and the Taliban leaders. What I feel about the House and Senate, however, can't be printed !


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agreed.



minimouse45 said:


> I think EVERY president has added family members to the travel list. Personally, he is my favorite president. Can't think of any president that had to fix so many messes, draw down endless conflicts, kill OSL and the Taliban leaders. What I feel about the House and Senate, however, can't be printed !


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder if she ever learned the word kind?
> 
> :thumbup: :shock: :twisted:


Have you learned?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I don't have any problem but you are the one who turns everything around to suit your uneducated mind. Wake up!
> 
> You are a very demented person, but have cute grands or children.


Janeway
your ailments would respond to treatment much better if you would become a nicer person.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Have you learned?
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Janeway
No way you will ever get better with the >>>>>>>>>> attitude you have.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> your ailments would respond to treatment much better if you would become a nicer person.


You should try knitting or some craft as this is after all Knitting Paradise!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> No way you will ever get better with the >>>>>>>>>> attitude you have.


Your attitude needs a make over too as you have a bad one. Your doctor could help with medications.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

minimouse45 said:


> I think EVERY president has added family members to the travel list. Personally, he is my favorite president. Can't think of any president that had to fix so many messes, draw down endless conflicts, kill OSL and the Taliban leaders. What I feel about the House and Senate, however, can't be printed !


You are right and no president has had to endure such disrespect before. When you have a party trying very hard to make you fail instead of working with you for the good of the country, it makes your job very difficult.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> You are right and no president has had to endure such disrespect before. When you have a party trying very hard to make you fail instead of working with you for the good of the country, it makes your job very difficult.


NJG
the GOP knew how intelligent President Obama is and feared that his decisions would outdo those of most prev. Republican Presidents and that needed to be nipped in the butt. They hoped that the mess Bush/Cheney left behind would do him in. How wrong they were. President Obama managed all messes quite well even though he got NO help from the GOP. That makes him look even smarter, doesn't it. His eary Life with a "mixed" family taught him well and his Family certainly reared him exemplary. History will speak well of him.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have a great deal of respect for the man. He has managed a mine field.



Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> the GOP knew how intelligent President Obama is and feared that his decisions would outdo those of most prev. Republican Presidents and that needed to be nipped in the butt. They hoped that the mess Bush/Cheney left behind would do him in. How wrong they were. President Obama managed all messes quite well even though he got NO help from the GOP. That makes him look even smarter, doesn't it. His eary Life with a "mixed" family taught him well and his Family certainly reared him exemplary. History will speak well of him.


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## deareed (Oct 2, 2012)

I have GC younger than they are, they don't need babysitters much less a nanny.


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## deareed (Oct 2, 2012)

I have GC younger than they are, they don't need babysitters much less a nanny.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> the GOP knew how intelligent President Obama is and feared that his decisions would outdo those of most prev. Republican Presidents and that needed to be nipped in the butt. They hoped that the mess Bush/Cheney left behind would do him in. How wrong they were. President Obama managed all messes quite well even though he got NO help from the GOP. That makes him look even smarter, doesn't it. His eary Life with a "mixed" family taught him well and his Family certainly reared him exemplary. History will speak well of him.


Dream on as none of this is true!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

deareed said:


> I have GC younger than they are, they don't need babysitters much less a nanny.


So if your GC were in China it would be ok for them to be on their own. What world are you living in. The president and Michelle are raising these two girls and doing a very good job from what I can see. For them to decide that they want someone to be there when the girls come home from school and when the parents can't be there, which I am sure is quite often, I think is very good parenting. I can not imagine what their schedule is like, as I'm sure you can't either, so can you just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they know what is best for their daughters.


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

Wrong...I don't have to give him credit for anything...I'm not a supporter so no, you don't want my opinion.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Isa53 said:


> Wrong...I don't have to give him credit for anything...I'm not a supporter so no, you don't want my opinion.


I agree totally with you. We don't want your opinion.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> Wrong...I don't have to give him credit for anything...I'm not a supporter so no, you don't want my opinion.


No, you sure don't, but that tells me a lot about you. You don't have to like his policies. I didn't like most of the things Bush did. But I gave him respect and still do, as a father and as a husband. You are so much a hater that you can't even respect the job he is doing as a father. I feel very sorry for you. What a hateful person you are.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> No, you sure don't, but that tells me a lot about you. You don't have to like his policies. I didn't like most of the things Bush did. But I gave him respect and still do, as a father and as a husband. You are so much a hater that you can't even respect the job he is doing as a father. I feel very sorry for you. What a hateful person you are.


Sad.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're completely right. I don't want to hear your opinion. And you are also completely wrong. We have a lot to give credit to President Obama, but I'm sure you're not interested in my opinion. Perhaps you will read history in the future. IMHO I think history will treat President Obama well. Til then.....



Isa53 said:


> Wrong...I don't have to give him credit for anything...I'm not a supporter so no, you don't want my opinion.


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

SQM said:


> I agree totally with you. We don't want your opinion.


typi

Typical Dem


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> No, you sure don't, but that tells me a lot about you. You don't have to like his policies. I didn't like most of the things Bush did. But I gave him respect and still do, as a father and as a husband. You are so much a hater that you can't even respect the job he is doing as a father. I feel very sorry for you. What a hateful person you are.


You don't know me and what a judgemental person you are.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Decided not to answer


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Isa53 said:


> typi
> 
> Typical Dem


I am a typical Independent.

I was just agreeing with the poster. Why the dismissive comment?


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

The posters comment was hateful and you agreed with it...your right to do so and my right to disagree. The poster is obviously upset that I don't like Obama, which tells me she is probably a Dem...and you are probably not, as you say and I'm probably not a "hateful person" this stuff gets do ridiculous and makes ordinary decent people turn nasty...not really worth it! Can't have an opinion without getting slammed, cussed out, called names and all from a bunch of people who just need to shut up and knit!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, and you're just a sweet, open-minded knitter with peace in your heart, right? You'll be happier elsewhere, but you'll do as you please, I'm sure.



Isa53 said:


> The posters comment was hateful and you agreed with it...your right to do so and my right to disagree. The poster is obviously upset that I don't like Obama, which tells me she is probably a Dem...and you are probably not, as you say and I'm probably not a "hateful person" this stuff gets do ridiculous and makes ordinary decent people turn nasty...not really worth it! Can't have an opinion without getting slammed, cussed out, called names and all from a bunch of people who just need to shut up and knit!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Oh, and you're just a sweet, open-minded knitter with peace in your heart, right? You'll be happier elsewhere, but you'll do as you please, I'm sure.


She seems like a good fit here so let's keep her.

Dame - if you remember the name of the tread that posted the white supremacy junk, please let me know. A few of us here are trying to get the Ostrich (admin) to remove it but to no avail. It clearly caused a lot of trouble. I was thinking if we no longer posted on that thread, it would evaporate on its own. So let me know if you know.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> You don't know me and what a judgemental person you are.


You think that is judgmental. You should see what some of your fellow haters have written about democrats and about our president and even about poor people and minorities. What you just read is very mild.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Decided not to answer


That is sometimes the best way, isn't it Shirley. Just ignore.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> typi
> 
> Typical Dem


Isa53
there is NOTHING typical about Democrats, "typical" fits Republicans - well the right Right Republicans, those Clowns.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> The posters comment was hateful and you agreed with it...your right to do so and my right to disagree. The poster is obviously upset that I don't like Obama, which tells me she is probably a Dem...and you are probably not, as you say and I'm probably not a "hateful person" this stuff gets do ridiculous and makes ordinary decent people turn nasty...not really worth it! Can't have an opinion without getting slammed, cussed out, called names and all from a bunch of people who just need to shut up and knit!


Isa53
we are multitasking. You can't do that? Sorry.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Oh, and you're just a sweet, open-minded knitter with peace in your heart, right? You'll be happier elsewhere, but you'll do as you please, I'm sure.


damemary
love your elegant Avatar.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> The posters comment was hateful and you agreed with it...your right to do so and my right to disagree. The poster is obviously upset that I don't like Obama, which tells me she is probably a Dem...and you are probably not, as you say and I'm probably not a "hateful person" this stuff gets do ridiculous and makes ordinary decent people turn nasty...not really worth it! Can't have an opinion without getting slammed, cussed out, called names and all from a bunch of people who just need to shut up and knit!


I am not upset that you don't like Obama, but what is upsetting is all the hatefulness that comes from the right, and the lack of respect the president gets. He is doing what he thinks is right, the same as Bush did. You may not think it is right, that is your prerogative, but all the hate in this country has gotten out of control. The republicans in congress refusal to work with President Obama for the good of the country is only a small part of what is going on and the fact that republicans love seeing this country fail. I just don't understand it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Folks, the holier than thou Hobby Lobby Owners have holdings in companies which manufacture Birth Control Pills and Birth Control devices. Tells us that if we do not do business with them, they will change their tune. Money is key for them. Let's put a dent into their pocket books.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> I am not upset that you don't like Obama, but what is upsetting is all the hatefulness that comes from the right, and the lack of respect the president gets. He is doing what he thinks is right, the same as Bush did. You may not think it is right, that is your prerogative, but all the hate in this country has gotten out of control. The republicans in congress refusal to work with President Obama for the good of the country is only a small part of what is going on and the fact that republicans love seeing this country fail. I just don't understand it.


NJG
you see, "the less fortunate" always are trying to bully those who are smart. They always have a great need to show their low IQ.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

denim & pearls p 105 - 106. But Admin is doing nothing except threatening those who complain. Lost your email. Send one to me.



SQM said:


> She seems like a good fit here so let's keep her.
> 
> Dame - if you remember the name of the tread that posted the white supremacy junk, please let me know. A few of us here are trying to get the Ostrich (admin) to remove it but to no avail. It clearly caused a lot of trouble. I was thinking if we no longer posted on that thread, it would evaporate on its own. So let me know if you know.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's to honor PoorPearl.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> love your elegant Avatar.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Revenge is sweet covered in moola.



Huckleberry said:


> Folks, the holier than thou Hobby Lobby Owners have holdings in companies which manufacture Birth Control Pills and Birth Control devices. Tells us that if we do not do business with them, they will change their tune. Money is key for them. Let's put a dent into their pocket books.


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## minimouse45 (Aug 25, 2013)

Disgusting that we have become a polarized nation. It's not okay to compare Presidents to apes, show disrespect, condemnation and speak endless lies. Whatever happened to one nation under God; whatever happened to a civilized society?

Nothing gets done while the players stop using reason and compassion just to court voters. This isn't about politics...we all lose when we can't, or won't work together !


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> You think that is judgmental. You should see what some of your fellow haters have written about democrats and about our president and even about poor people and minorities. What you just read is very mild.


I don't hate anyone...I just choose not to drink the kool-aid


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> I don't hate anyone...I just choose not to drink the kool-aid


I'm sorry, but you can't even respect a man for being a good father. I think that shows who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Here is something else for you to read and think about what is happening to our country. Do you really want to live in an oligarchy?

I just received this from Progressives United Pac and found it pretty interesting, I had not heard of this case before.

Today, the Supreme Court announced a terrible decision -- McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission -- striking down crucial contributions limits that provided one of the few remaining safeguards against corruption. Now, individual ultra-wealthy donors will be able to contribute, in total, over a million dollars to candidates and political parties directly.

In college, one of my teachers said politics was ultimately about one simple question: who decides? As in, who decides how much wealthy Americans should pay in taxes? Who decides if we go to war? And who decides how we take care of each other and what happens to Social Security?

But more and more, the question we hear from Washington is, "Should anyone but corporations and the ultra-rich decide?"

This is the fight of our lifetime -- what should corporations and the rich get to decide about our lives?

Here is some more material for your reading pleasure. The rich and big corporations are gaining more control over this country and us all the time. Hobby Lobby is part of this too. They like to say it has to do with freedom of religion, but there is a lot more to it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/08/supreme-court-takes-up-the-sequ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

minimouse45 said:


> Disgusting that we have become a polarized nation. It's not okay to compare Presidents to apes, show disrespect, condemnation and speak endless lies. Whatever happened to one nation under God; whatever happened to a civilized society?
> 
> Nothing gets done while the players stop using reason and compassion just to court voters. This isn't about politics...we all lose when we can't, or won't work together !


minimouse45
at least one Party - the Party of WE THE PEOPLE - Democrats - has never been that disrespect- and hate-ful. Sure we criticized
Pres. Bush but name calling and all of the other ugliness has never been thrown in his direction. Democrats also did not twist and turn the truth, we called it as we saw it and the picture was not pretty. War for no good reason gave us plenty to complain about.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> I don't hate anyone...I just choose not to drink the kool-aid


Isa53
have not read all of your postings but am sure that you never
complained about the ugly remarks your peers have made re. President Obama, therefore you agree with them.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

deareed said:


> I have GC younger than they are, they don't need babysitters much less a nanny.


I am sure you GC were not people of color living in the public eye with rabid opponents seeking ways to hurt you. The issue of security is paramount. The Bush girls were no different and they were pretty wild.

Stop being so self-righteous and look at your racism in this case. If they were white, I know you would not be saying this.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> I am sure you GC were not people of color living in the public eye with rabid opponents seeking ways to hurt you. The issue of security is paramount. The Bush girls were no different and they were pretty wild.
> 
> Stop being so self-righteous and look at your racism in this case. If they were white, I know you would not be saying this.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> typi
> 
> Typical Dem


What is a typical Dem? Is this supposed to be a participatory comment? I think not. It is a short code word for putting someone with a different point of view down.

I find your comment contemptuous.

It also tells me that you have no real opinion of your own or you wouldn't need to reduce yourself to such an empty comment.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

NJG said:


> I'm sorry, but you can't even respect a man for being a good father. I think that shows who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Here is something else for you to read and think about what is happening to our country. Do you really want to live in an oligarchy?
> 
> I just received this from Progressives United Pac and found it pretty interesting, I had not heard of this case before.
> 
> ...


Link not working. Can you fill in the end of the link?

It was very clear at the beginning there was more than this bogus claim by HL. Several articles have come out in the past 3-4 days describing the contradictions in the lawsuit claim as well as the deep financial pockets working together to gain control of the this country. Totally undemocratic but this is what fascism is about.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Link not working. Can you fill in the end of the link?
> 
> It was very clear at the beginning there was more than this bogus claim by HL. Several articles have come out in the past 3-4 days describing the contradictions in the lawsuit claim as well as the deep financial pockets working together to gain control of the this country. Totally undemocratic but this is what fascism is about.


Sorry about that, try this. When I paste it, it is all there, but then it doesn't show later. The rest of it is el-to-citizens-united/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/08/supreme-court-takes-up-the-sequel-to-citizens-united/


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

NJG said:


> I'm sorry, but you can't even respect a man for being a good father. I think that shows who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Here is something else for you to read and think about what is happening to our country. Do you really want to live in an oligarchy?
> 
> I just received this from Progressives United Pac and found it pretty interesting, I had not heard of this case before.
> 
> ...


Glad you wrote this but it is nothing new. The framers of our constitution were all wealthy and carved out the laws of the land with the rich in mind. Eisenhower warned us decades ago about letting the "Industrial/Military Complex" rule this country. Fell on deaf ears of course because the Oligarchy will not give up their power. Why would they?


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

This decision while infuriating is not surprising.


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> I'm sorry, but you can't even respect a man for being a good father. I think that shows who is drinking the Kool-Aid. Here is something else for you to read and think about what is happening to our country. Do you really want to live in an oligarchy?
> 
> I just received this from Progressives United Pac and found it pretty interesting, I had not heard of this case before.
> 
> ...


You are just freakin' going off the wall on this! A man can be a good parent and not a good president! I never said anything about his parenting! Get over it lady!!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> I agree totally with you. We don't want your opinion.


Why can't she post her opinion--you do! Fair is fair!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> You are just freakin' going off the wall on this! A man can be a good parent and not a good president! I never said anything about his parenting! Get over it lady!!!


She does this all of the time so don't allow her to get you angry. She knows nothing!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Folks, the holier than thou Hobby Lobby Owners have holdings in companies which manufacture Birth Control Pills and Birth Control devices. Tells us that if we do not do business with them, they will change their tune. Money is key for them. Let's put a dent into their pocket books.


Prove what you say with facts!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> You are just freakin' going off the wall on this! A man can be a good parent and not a good president! I never said anything about his parenting! Get over it lady!!!


Isa53
you are freakin' that Barack Obama a Man of color is our President. Get use to it, there will be future ones like him not even of mixed race. Now that should drive you up some trees.
Start to get over it lady.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> you see, "the less fortunate" always are trying to bully those who are smart. They always have a great need to show their low IQ.


Again post facts only your opinion!


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## Kanitter (Jan 26, 2014)

I am so amazed how long this has been going on no. 105 pages of pure hate..........


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## Kanitter (Jan 26, 2014)

Started on March 22 . now 105 pages later..........



Bramleygal said:


> First off, I am a big Obama supporter. Voted for him. BUT..... As a taxpayer I have a real problem with paying for the mother in law to vacation in China.Thoughts?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Prove what you say with facts!


Janeway
why do you need to point out that you are never up to date on facts? It is all over the News but we know all too well that you are not into News just into Faux information and they would NEVER make something like that public. Heaven forbid. You are welcome to call on me for all the latest and most important.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Again post facts only your opinion!


Janeway
my opinion is build on facts. Quite sound wouldn't you say? Try it yourself, you will benefit from it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> You are just freakin' going off the wall on this! A man can be a good parent and not a good president! I never said anything about his parenting! Get over it lady!!!


The discussion was with someone else and I said just give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they know what is best for their daughters.

Your answer was "Wrong, I don't have to give him credit for anything." I took that to mean you would not give him credit for the decisions he made about his daughters.  You inserted yourself into this, as I didn't ask for your opinion so chill out and back off. Growing up might be a good option for you also.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Why can't she post her opinion--you do! Fair is fair!


Jane - she said she did not want to express her opinion and I was being friendly by agreeing. Of course she can write here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Isa53
> you are freakin' that Barack Obama a Man of color is our President. Get use to it, there will be future ones like him not even of mixed race. Now that should drive you up some trees.
> Start to get over it lady.


Please don't send her up trees. Remember I am in the canopies.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Kanitter said:


> Started on March 22 . now 105 pages later..........


Stay tuned!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> my opinion is build on facts. Quite sound wouldn't you say? Try it yourself, you will benefit from it.


You never show facts but respond with words to slam!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Please don't send her up trees. Remember I am in the canopies.


SQM
Too close for comfort I have to admit.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You never show facts but respond with words to slam!


Janeway
Repeat: Hobby Lobby has holdings in Companies which manufacture Birth Controll Pills and Intrauterine Devices.
Stick that on your mirror to be reminded how much they are into Christian values.


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## cialea (Jan 8, 2014)

Janeway said:


> Stay tuned!


LMAO so true!
:lol: :thumbup:


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> why do you need to point out that you are never up to date on facts? It is all over the News but we know all too well that you are not into News just into Faux information and they would NEVER make something like that public. Heaven forbid. You are welcome to call on me for all the latest and most important.


Janeway...don't you wish Huck was as smart as she thinks she is????


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Why can't she post her opinion--you do! Fair is fair!


Thank you Janeway...finally someone with a cool head and some smarts!


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

tamarque said:


> What is a typical Dem? Is this supposed to be a participatory comment? I think not. It is a short code word for putting someone with a different point of view down.
> 
> I find your comment contemptuous.
> 
> It also tells me that you have no real opinion of your own or you wouldn't need to reduce yourself to such an empty comment.


I really don't care HOW you find my comments. Period.


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> She does this all of the time so don't allow her to get you angry. She knows nothing!


I can tell she knows nothing...just puts on a good show! She's almost funny!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> Janeway...don't you wish Huck was as smart as she thinks she is????


Isa53
smarter actually. Don't take credit for all I have learned.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know Huckleberry and she is a very intelligent, creative lady. I'm just making my opinion known. If you were smart, you'd think carefully before slandering her, or anyone else. Have a nice day.



Isa53 said:


> I can tell she knows nothing...just puts on a good show! She's almost funny!


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## ann seal (Jan 30, 2014)

Awwwwwh.... Come on people...Life is too short for all this bickering!
To me, it is such a waste of the short time we have in this life. [Now you have someone else to slam!!!!!] Get over it! ann


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## Isa53 (Jul 19, 2011)

ann seal said:


> Awwwwwh.... Come on people...Life is too short for all this bickering!
> To me, it is such a waste of the short time we have in this life. [Now you have someone else to slam!!!!!] Get over it! ann


 :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Isa53 said:


> :thumbup:


Isa53
we are just "sorting out".


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Isa53 said:


> Thank you Janeway...finally someone with a cool head and some smarts!


You are welcome. Thanks for the compliment. These same people cruse threads on KP just for for fun. They make snide remarks about everything. Their life must be dull!


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