# Has anyone else found this happen



## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...

When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.

I am happy to admit that my feathers have been a little ruffled by having my suggestions completely ignored only for someone else to run with and expand my idea, but I was already feeling disconnected from the group before this. I'd also tried to break into teaching myself 3 years ago, and now that the existing teacher is relocating I was hoping to take over- only to discover that someone else is taking on the role who only learned her skills in the last 3-4 years (I KNOW I know more than she does!) Yes, happy to admit a touch of the green eyed monster on my part there as well. But it's not only for these reasons I am niggled.

It has left me with a feeling that I get greater 'community' feel from KP, where I am unlikely to even meet a fraction of the people on here- I'd hoped that being part of a 'real' group, with 'real' human contact would have been better, but it hasn't worked out that way.

Your thoughts? Has this happened to your groups? Or am I being over sensitive?


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## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Why not start your own intimate knitting group at your home, place a notice in your local town paper or at the library and see if there is anyone who is interested or speak to some close friends at the knitting circle you belong to, voicing your concerns about what has happened to the group and you're interested in bringing back the original format..Sometimes the local library has programs similar to what your interests are, or teach beginners how to knit at the library...


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## SharonBee (Oct 20, 2013)

Let knitters know that you will be happy to help anyone wanting to learn or have help with a knitting problem. I find these know it all take over people fade out over time. I have issues similar to yours and tell myself that I set the bar to high.


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## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

Yes I have been in groups which showed a bit of a power struggle. Sometimes I remind myself that this just happens when a group of strong minded women get together. Sometimes I am sure that I know more than the one leading the group, so I bite my tongue and wait for a time to help out. I can identify with our ruffled feathers, as it happens to me too. 

Especially if there is a large group, you might want to invite a few of the knitters to meet with you on another day. Do this privately, so as to not ruffle anyone else's feathers.....I am sure you would be discrete in your setting up an auxiliary group of friends to meet.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

This happens way too often for many groups.
The group gets larger as time goes by.
Things get lost in the shuffle and many people are peering through the window looking in; sitting on the side lines.

I tend to hold onto the memories of the good times and move on; being thankful for the presence of some in my life - even for a short time.


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## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

I think that your feelings are valid. There are some who like the small group feel and there are others who want to be a part of a big organization where they can learn but remain somewhat anonymous. If the small group is for you perhaps you could start a new one yourself. In my quilt guild it became like that and there are several smaller groups that meet weekly for a few hours but still we remain part of the whole as well. Maybe this would work for you and the friends that you have made. God bless.


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## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

I think that your feelings are valid. There are some who like the small group feel and there are others who want to be a part of a big organization where they can learn but remain somewhat anonymous. If the small group is for you perhaps you could start a new one yourself. In my quilt guild it became like that and there are several smaller groups that meet weekly for a few hours but still we remain part of the whole as well. Maybe this would work for you and the friends that you have made. God bless.


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## Janice Wilkens (Feb 20, 2015)

sarah66 said:


> A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...
> 
> When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
> I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.
> ...


I feel your pain. This has happened to me also particularly in our small town church group. Years ago, they asked for the younger folks to come forward and when I did, my ideas were poo-pooed only to become someone else's grand idea at the next meeting! Knocks the wind right out of your sails!


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## sylviaelliott (May 11, 2011)

when any group gets too big this is bound to happen. someone always wants to run it as a 'club' with rules etc. why don't you start another small group yourself. you can always quote that the group has too many members now and impersonal so you are starting another one.


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

Several have made good suggestions-- form a new group (quietly, with ones you really like or know are also not happy). Then ask at the library or Senior Center if they'd like a free class for beginning knitters (hope you don't need the $$). This would get your foot in the door and might lead to something that pays a bit. 

Our Sr Center needlework group is a work in progress-- people come, people go. There is always a core group. I, too, got hit with green-eyed monster when a younger woman became the go-to on knitting advice BUT I know she is more active on the web (knows newer tech) and knits more daily than I do. She is such a nice person it is not possible to resent her. When she isn't there or the person asking help is a friend of mine, I get to do it. I'm good with that.


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## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

I belonged to a group and we started getting way too big. We have now branched off and there are a couple of groups going from the original. Try to see if you can get a couple of like minded knitters together. We meet at a coffee shop and they have plenty of room. Another group meets at a church hall and one more at a condo complex's room. Good luck.


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## Jaevick (Feb 14, 2011)

Pay close attention to those you would like to branch off into another group with. You can quietly fade away into a new group slowly to avoid friction. But remember, you don't owe those who are taking over and trying to run things an explanation.


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

Comforted to hear I am not alone. Thanks for the suggestions, trouble is being in a small town everyone knows everyone else and news travels fast. There are two groups, one at the LYS and one at library, both of which are at full capacity with no spare seats, and the 'main' characters domineering both groups. I have already spoken to one friend who likes the idea of an informal meet with a small handful taking it it turns to host the meeting. It's just a shame to lose out on getting to see those who you like to have a chat with occasionally, but wouldn't necessarily want to be part of a splinter group. I guess I could try the library in the next town which is almost as close to me, but that feels like defeat to me.

I guess I just need to look a little more on the positive side and be thankful for the friends I have gained, rather than dwelling on the pushiness of the strong character (Who if I think about it, actually feels threatened by me because she's afraid my knowledge will show up the holes in hers.) 
I think part of my trouble is that I like to go about my business quietly, doing what I enjoy, without shouting about it loudly. Those that shout loudly get heard, and those that don't are sidelined. I'm not going to change who I am, so I guess I have to accept that being ruffled occasionally is the price I pay for not being of the bragging variety.

Your comments have given me something to think about and have helped a lot. Thank you


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## Janice Wilkens (Feb 20, 2015)

sarah66 said:


> Comforted to hear I am not alone. Thanks for the suggestions, trouble is being in a small town everyone knows everyone else and news travels fast. There are two groups, one at the LYS and one at library, both of which are at full capacity with no spare seats, and the 'main' characters domineering both groups. I have already spoken to one friend who likes the idea of an informal meet with a small handful taking it it turns to host the meeting. It's just a shame to lose out on getting to see those who you like to have a chat with occasionally, but wouldn't necessarily want to be part of a splinter group. I guess I could try the library in the next town which is almost as close to me, but that feels like defeat to me.
> 
> I guess I just need to look a little more on the positive side and be thankful for the friends I have gained, rather than dwelling on the pushiness of the strong character (Who if I think about it, actually feels threatened by me because she's afraid my knowledge will show up the holes in hers.)
> I think part of my trouble is that I like to go about my business quietly, doing what I enjoy, without shouting about it loudly. Those that shout loudly get heard, and those that don't are sidelined. I'm not going to change who I am, so I guess I have to accept that being ruffled occasionally is the price I pay for not being of the bragging variety.
> ...


Hugs to you.


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## MaggiMoonwytch (Jul 31, 2014)

It's my experience over the years that real life groups are only as good as the people who are in them. Those people tend to fall broadly into several categories. Those who want to be part of a group but don't want to actually do any organising themselves, the natural organisers and leaders, the malcontents who want everything handed to them on a plate, grumble about it all because it really isn't to their liking but won't get off their backsides and actually DO anything and the rest of us, who are happy to lend a hand if asked. Oh and lets not forget the 'social climbers' who want to be seen as part of the groups 'elite' whoever or whatever they may be. These may sound like sweeping generalisations but I've joined many a group for a variety of different things and found they do tend to hold true. 

As a group grows larger the dynamics are always going to change and this is going to change the very nature of the group. All I can suggest is you start your own knitting group. That way you can keep control of the membership, the size and the agenda.

All I will say about teaching is, it's a skill in itself and not everyone has it. I WAS a teacher for many years and previous to that I was a class room assistant. Nearly 40 years in all and I saw many people come and go who had the knowledge and the skills themselves but had no notion, in spite of 4 years teacher training, how to pass that knowledge on to others.  

Start your own group, start a knitting class. if it's really what you want to do, don't wait for someone to offer. Go get. The offer may NEVER come.

What have you got to lose?


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I am the covenor of our KG in Australia and I love being part of that group. We are all friendly and we have grown. We have at least 50 members in our group. We all get on well together and we have a brilliant lady who was a school teacher who teaches us new things and she has people that know a lot about some subjects she teaches and she gets them to help her. I did a cables class this year which wasn't too bad. My friend helped me because I slipped up which I was grateful to her. The class was good and two ladies who had never done cables went away happy because they had learnt something. I don't profess to know everything, I certainly don't otherwise I wouldn't attend the lessons all the time.


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## penneymay (Jul 4, 2013)

jonibee said:


> Why not start your own intimate knitting group at your home, place a notice in your local town paper or at the library and see if there is anyone who is interested or speak to some close friends at the knitting circle you belong to, voicing your concerns about what has happened to the group and you're interested in bringing back the original format..Sometimes the local library has programs similar to what your interests are, or teach beginners how to knit at the library...


 ~~this is a great idea~~
i found it surprising how many people i know ... but ... did not know they envied my skill until they mentioned it and asked would i teach them, out of the 10 (not all at once, this is over a few years) i took the time to teach... Jason (nephew) has made small projects; scarves, dishcloths, computer cover etc. Jason now is in medical college and time is not there for him to needle and hook.
Cecilia and Amanda (GDaughter's) learned the basic knitting skills but fell to the wayside  ... busy with school, sports etc
but...  2 of them made a big bang in their lives with hooks and needles... Darlene (co-worker..now knitter and hooker) went straight to cowls, scarves, hats, lap-afghans and my other success story Cheryl (co-worker...hooker only) jumped right from a scarf to a full sized afghan.
i feel starting out with 10 and 2 picked it up and ran with it was a good success story. the 2 banger's are still going strong and the 3 way-sider's know how to knit and crochet..maybe the time will come for them to apply their teachings but they *learned*....i call that success for all parties involved  
offer your talents and your skills. the reward is pride ... my set up was not like a gathering or class it was family and friends/co-workers.
i didn't charge for tutoring/teaching it was fun to watch the faces when they found what needles and hooks can do when placed in the right hands and it was in THEIR hands 
:wink: :-D :!:


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## kayrein (Aug 24, 2011)

If it isn't fun anymore, don't do it! Maybe you could invite just 2 or 3 friends to come over and knit with you once in awhile. Sometimes as groups evolve, it can become not such a good fit anymore. There is nothing wrong with moving on.


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## PapillonThreads (Mar 23, 2012)

I would stick with it....I've seen it a few times...those louder less knowledgeable, will mess people up in their knitting....then those loud know it alls will disappear.

Our group had a big dis-hevel last fall....our teacher and fearless leader retired from our LYS....so we started meeting at a restaurant once a week....our teacher was friends of a owner at another LYS, so she arranged for us to meet at their store....we lost a few because of distance in driving...now we have gained a few new ones. We still meet at the restaurant once in awhile to catch up with ones that can't come to the store.

We made a list of everyone's email or phone #...and send out reminders or invites.

You could invite people to meet at your home, a restaurant, park etc...saying meeting more than once week would be fun...then things will just evolve from there... :thumbup:


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## marg 123 (Oct 17, 2012)

I asked here on Kp if there was a knitting group in my area and a lovely lady replied asking me to her house once a week along with her friends. I have been going for over one year now. Why not try your own 'knit and natter'


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

Two things.First, if you know the knitters who would like to just knit and natter, see if they would like to start a seperate group for relaxing knitting. I sounds as though it's getting to be a job rather than a pleasure.
Second,why can't you teach also? Who is this woman to decide who does or doesn't teach? Now I understand if it's within the group, but outside of the group or if you ladies start a new group, teach.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

Is there another group in your area that you could join? Am sure others feel the same way!


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

At 74. I let whomever runs the group run it. I focus on the comraderie, the fun, the crafting.
Don't you have friends in the group?
Let Bossy be Bossy. If the person's not competent to lead the group, it will show soon.
Our Second-in-Command is a bit sensitive about her position, so I back off a little and let her do what she wants. I do the same.
I don't sweat the small stuff; and if the place ain't on fire, it's small stuff, trust me. 
For my part, I'm not the Boss of the group. I let folks be what they wanna be; help the folks who ask for my help; encourage the folks to take a chance on a new project; sit and knit and enjoy the company and the gossip and go home when it's over. 
This is not something I'm going to get my knickers all in a knot over. :|


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## Colorgal (Feb 20, 2012)

I have left two knitting clubs because of the power struggle. I enjoy helping people who have questions or get stuck. I am generally very quiet in a group of women. Loved going to the clubs and members started asking questions about my knitting and then for help with problems. I gladly helped them. One lady got furious with me and said because I was not a master teacher from the guild I could not help anymore. This is a group that gets together at a coffee shop. OH Well


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## Janice Wilkens (Feb 20, 2015)

Colorgal said:


> I have left two knitting clubs because of the power struggle. I enjoy helping people who have questions or get stuck. I am generally very quiet in a group of women. Loved going to the clubs and members started asking questions about my knitting and then for help with problems. I gladly helped them. One lady got furious with me and said because I was not a master teacher from the guild I could not help anymore. This is a group that gets together at a coffee shop. OH Well


A master teacher from the guild??
Well she certainly drained the fun out for you.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

I don't belong to a knitting group. The closest is about 30 miles away and the meet at some of the strangest times. I prefer the social interaction of KP much better.


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## Janice Wilkens (Feb 20, 2015)

run4fittness said:


> I don't belong to a knitting group. The closest is about 30 miles away and the meet at some of the strangest times. I prefer the social interaction of KP much better.


I look forward to reading my KP. I have learned so much from all of your responses.


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

sarah66 said:


> Comforted to hear I am not alone. Thanks for the suggestions, trouble is being in a small town everyone knows everyone else and news travels fast. There are two groups, one at the LYS and one at library, both of which are at full capacity with no spare seats, and the 'main' characters domineering both groups. I have already spoken to one friend who likes the idea of an informal meet with a small handful taking it it turns to host the meeting. It's just a shame to lose out on getting to see those who you like to have a chat with occasionally, but wouldn't necessarily want to be part of a splinter group. I guess I could try the library in the next town which is almost as close to me, but that feels like defeat to me.
> 
> I guess I just need to look a little more on the positive side and be thankful for the friends I have gained, rather than dwelling on the pushiness of the strong character (Who if I think about it, actually feels threatened by me because she's afraid my knowledge will show up the holes in hers.)
> I think part of my trouble is that I like to go about my business quietly, doing what I enjoy, without shouting about it loudly. Those that shout loudly get heard, and those that don't are sidelined. I'm not going to change who I am, so I guess I have to accept that being ruffled occasionally is the price I pay for not being of the bragging variety.
> ...


Why not just invite the few like minded members over for coffee at your home & start your own informal group. You could meet at each others' homes on a rotating basis or at a coffee shop. If I was in that situation, I would definitely stop attending meetings that I no longer enjoyed. Life is too short to endure uncomfortable situations if you don't have to.

Even if word gets out, why stress about it. As mentioned earlier, you don't owe them an explanation. If you feel you need to say something just be tactfully honest. Tell them you prefer a smaller intimate group or that you no longer enjoyed the atmosphere of such a large group.


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## Colorgal (Feb 20, 2012)

Janice Wilkens said:


> A master teacher from the guild??
> Well she certainly drained the fun out for you.


It is sad that people can't let everybody be themselves. I began to wonder if she was or was going to start charging for the help and didn't want any competition. I don't know and now don't care. I like what I do and that make me happy.


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## Downsouth Knitter (Mar 31, 2014)

People always have been, and apparently will continue to be ... people.

I wrote this up a long time ago for my kids and have had it on the fridge for years.

One of the hardest lessons I've had to learn as an adult is this. I CANNOT CHANGE OTHER PEOPLE. I do not have the power to correct their behavior, cure their addictions, or change their beliefs. Only God has this power, and even then, it requires permission and a willingness to change. The ONLY THING I HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE IS MY BEHAVIOR and the way I react to other's people's behavior.

Think it still holds true...


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## standsalonewolf (Dec 1, 2011)

jonibee said:


> Why not start your own intimate knitting group at your home, place a notice in your local town paper or at the library and see if there is anyone who is interested or speak to some close friends at the knitting circle you belong to, voicing your concerns about what has happened to the group and you're interested in bringing back the original format..Sometimes the local library has programs similar to what your interests are, or teach beginners how to knit at the library...


would you let strangers into your home

:wink:


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the extra responses since my last post.
I have no problem with arranging a smaller group for the 'few', I think I was just at a bit of a low ebb for lots of reasons personally and feeling pushed to the sidelines or ignored didn't help.
Thanks to you wonderful people on here I have now re-gained some perspective, and am getting on with enjoying my craft , wherever I do it- at home, in the car, in the waiting room, between seeing clients, or if the fancy takes me I'll pop along to one of the groups and ignore the louder ones who only have their ego to think about :roll:


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

No thankgoodness,our knit and knatter group is very friendly,we are all good friends,but if it grew to big like yours has i would feel like you do.


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## Sjlegrandma (Jan 18, 2013)

A local church near me had an add in the local newspaper for new members to join their craft group. I took up the invite along with others. The group was big but well run. You could bring your own craft or do one they were teaching. The person running it eventually left the church and it went downhill from then on. I left when they decided to have a stall at the church each year and just expected us all to make things to donate to it. As a lot of us didnt belong to this church we had our own charities we were making things for. Last I heard they were down to 6 people. Such a shame.


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## skeever4298 (Jul 20, 2014)

If you know many of the other women/men in the group, poll them to see which ones prefer a smaller group. If they do express your wishes to start one and act on the situation. 

I too hate it when others "take over" in group settings just because they have more powerful personalities. I personally don't like to be around them either.


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## jo everest (May 28, 2011)

Start you own group, I am sure many of the friends you have made in the group would be happy to come to yours to knit and natter share ideas and skills.


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

Crafting in groups was how women got through life without going totally bonkers. At one point in Orlando, I belonged to three groups, which met weekly. The thing is that groups morph into other groups. When I left, the largest group was down to a shifting number of people, but never more than four. Now, it's not really there at all. Several of the groups just faded away, but I am friends with many of the members and we talk (phone, email and Facebook) about life and knitting, even though I'm 800 miles away. Here, I am a loose part of two formal groups and have started another one at the Housing Authority, which has an interesting life of its own. And there are people on KP whom I consider real "friends" (remember Pen Pals?). Knitting is the medium; support is the message.


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## crafty lady UK (Aug 18, 2011)

It happened to me too, so you are not by yourself. I had been going to the same knit and natter group from when it first started, being one of the ones to organise it all. Like you, I would take in articles of interest, download patterns others might like, and get excited about something I wanted to share that I had tried, or made. Like you all my efforts were ignored. 

I stayed for my friend, but after she sadly passed away, I couldn't face going and stopped. Now I keep getting asked to go back because they need someone to teach people crochet. I can't bring myself to go back, especially since I found out that a couple of the newer people that go are spiteful and talk about people behind their backs, which is something I can't stand.

Maybe all us rejects should form a club of our own!!


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## scorpian (Jul 19, 2012)

Yes this often happens to groups that get too Big, and then they want to make it official rather than a casual. Why don't you have a coffee morning o afternoon cuppa tea and call it a knit and natter we have one in our village once a month and each ladies takes a turn in their houses, so it is not a formal, we have some that knit, crochet and cross stitch so it is varied. :thumbup:


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## nmorris (Oct 14, 2014)

If you start a group Sarah66 I live in Luton and may well be interested. The only ones I can find are in the evenings and I would like to attend a group for a couple of hours in the daytime if possible. I have been knitting for a good few years but am by no means 'experienced' and am happy for someone else to 'go to'. Nancy


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## SallieH (Oct 20, 2014)

Knitting is the medium; support is the message.[/quote]

I love this message! Is it original? I think it worthy of repeating. Thanks, Cydneyjo!

I love talking about knitting almost as I enjoy the craft itself. I believe others feel as I do and it is why KP is so popular. I agree with many of the suggestions given: Invite a few to lunch at your house or a restaurant and suggest they may just want to bring a wip. After all, what knitter goes to lunch anyway without bringing a project? I find I can linger over the meal longer without eating more! "winning!"


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## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

Nancyn said:


> I belonged to a group and we started getting way too big. We have now branched off and there are a couple of groups going from the original. Try to see if you can get a couple of like minded knitters together. We meet at a coffee shop and they have plenty of room. Another group meets at a church hall and one more at a condo complex's room. Good luck.


I've belonged to quilter's groups that got too big and too.....whatever (you fill in the blank). This suggestion works very well, especially if it is done quietly so the person(s) controlling the larger group don't feel threatened. My church congregation is spread out over a large area where I live, and a small group of us that live close by each other, but far from the meeting house get together once in awhile at a local yogurt shop or cafeteria (for desert!!!). When large groups get together to work on a project, lots of real progress can be made. But it's hard for me to feel like I belong in a sea of faces. Some of us just feel more at home and like we belong, in a smaller group. Whether a few meet together because they live close together, or share the same interest, it can work out very well.

Whatever you do, don't become a hermit. Don't stay at home all the time, possibly in front of the computer or TV. Get out and go places, meet with people. This is especially important for older folks, but very good advice for any one of any age. Keep your interests going!

I've had my turn at teaching classes also. If you do it in a shop, they expect you to sell merchandise for them. I'm much happier getting together with one or a few people to share a skill in a home or other informal meeting place.

Good luck!


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

Downsouth Knitter said:


> People always have been, and apparently will continue to be ... people.
> 
> I wrote this up a long time ago for my kids and have had it on the fridge for years.
> 
> ...


This is a great bit of philosophy-- I would like permission to share it with my family and friends. What a great lesson-- if we would just listen to it!!


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## pyfairy (Dec 7, 2013)

There is no rule saying you can't start your own little intimate group and also attend the larger one. If asked "Why" just gently let them know that you miss the unstructured get together of just friends with common interest without an agenda to meet. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## sabrinat (Oct 17, 2012)

Many Years ago in my late twenty's and being pregnant, the reason for leaving my Job myself and a friend started a knitting club in my home which was about 12 ladies. we had a good relationship with all the ladies. After my two children were in High School I decided to go back to work which was a Half day at an Optom. My Mother took over the the Knitting club. Years later I'm now retired, my Mum is turning 91, I have returned back to the knitting club which she is still running. I think the reason for it to be going for so long is that the Ladies like to have a chat with some tea and cake and not take the knitting to seriously. we do a lot of prem knitting for our Black community and Hospitals.


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## 1953knitter (Mar 30, 2011)

I have not experienced this kind of power struggle in my group, but if I did Imwould have the same feelings you do. Since you know you are not along in how you feel you & the other(s) should start your own group at a other location. Someone suggested your home - meet in a public place. You shouldn't want strangers in your home. Plus there may be times you are away from home or just don't feel like going. Good luck, these groups are supposed to be fu. & a good source for help.


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## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

MaggiMoonwytch said:


> It's my experience over the years that real life groups are only as good as the people who are in them. Those people tend to fall broadly into several categories. Those who want to be part of a group but don't want to actually do any organising themselves, the natural organisers and leaders, the malcontents who want everything handed to them on a plate, grumble about it all because it really isn't to their liking but won't get off their backsides and actually DO anything and the rest of us, who are happy to lend a hand if asked. Oh and lets not forget the 'social climbers' who want to be seen as part of the groups 'elite' whoever or whatever they may be. These may sound like sweeping generalisations but I've joined many a group for a variety of different things and found they do tend to hold true.
> 
> As a group grows larger the dynamics are always going to change and this is going to change the very nature of the group. All I can suggest is you start your own knitting group. That way you can keep control of the membership, the size and the agenda.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## pinkladydew (Oct 21, 2011)

I go to a monthly gathering at my church, its called "Sewing Seeds" It's geared towards women , we have a pot luck lunch , and women bring any craft or project they feel like bringing, we willingly teach each other when the need arises , but in no way is someone in charge of what is done , or how or when. We meet the first Saturday of each month ,mostly in our church kitchen, but sometimes at someones house.
I guess I am blessed to have such a great group of women to meet up with on a regular basis. 

Maybe you could start something like this in your community!


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## pinkladydew (Oct 21, 2011)

I go to a monthly gathering at my church, its called "Sewing Seeds" It's geared towards women , we have a pot luck lunch , and women bring any craft or project they feel like bringing, we willingly teach each other when the need arises , but in no way is someone in charge of what is done , or how or when. We meet the first Saturday of each month ,mostly in our church kitchen, but sometimes at someones house.
I guess I am blessed to have such a great group of women to meet up with on a regular basis. 

Maybe you could start something like this in your community!

Oops pushed send 2x's


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## nankat (Oct 17, 2012)

Great support out there. If you have already found a like minded knitter why not just start with her. You will probably see that others will join you two. Just start at home. Good luck and happy knitting


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

This is such a great topic. After being in a number of clubs and groups over the years I've found that the size of the group doesn't matter except that once it reaches a larger number of people someone does have to organize or chaos would follow. That being said, as another just wrote, people will be people. There are some who think their way is the ONLY way, some who wouldn't speak up if their skirt tail was on fire, others who go along to get along and then there are those who love to be in control. I freely admit to being a control freak - but as my employees and friends have told me, I don't ask others to do anything I wouldn't and haven't done myself. You think of others first, yourself second. I really think after a group gets huge that perhaps an election should be held on a regular basis. And those who set back and complain but do nothing can then only complain to themselves for not being more involved. Tell people you want to take charge for a while if you want. If you have something new, show and tell everyone. In fact a show and tell every meeting might be a good way to shine a light on everyone's talents. (I'm Not a good knitter but I bead and can help others with adding beads to their knitting for instance.) We get the respect we demand and others can hurt and abuse us only if we let them. Honestly, I depend upon each and every one of you with knitting as I have only one friend that I can see about twice per year and 1 email "buddy" to help me when I get into a pickle. I thank you sincerely for all your help, knowing you are laying your needles aside to help another. For those control freaks like me? Be kind, be observant, realize we are all at different stages in our learning path, and always remember how you felt when you were slighted, hurt by an unkind word, or made to feel unimportant. I go with the suggestion of talking to a few of the original group and having another small group as you used to have. Oh, and you might want to pick a large meeting spot because once word gets out, you'll have a good part of the existing group who are dissatisfied and not saying anything. Good luck.


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## Dnorthrop (Feb 15, 2015)

I invited several of my knitting friends over for a Sunday brunch, everyone was invited to bring a knitting buddy or a would be knitting buddy. It turned out well. Everyone brought an item and we had great fun. We had non knitters ranging from 8-60(3) and seasoned knitters age 30-50+(10)
We actually started making this a monthly thing and we all enjoy our time together.


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## Downsouth Knitter (Mar 31, 2014)

Kansas g-ma said:


> This is a great bit of philosophy-- I would like permission to share it with my family and friends. What a great lesson-- if we would just listen to it!!


Of course. I'm sure it wasn't original to me! I've had many wise people over the years try to help me grow up (heading toward 60, and think I'm almost there...)


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

Lots of issues here.

First, the incident of having your suggestion ignored only to have another suggest the same thing and have the group run with it happens over and over and over. Sometimes it comes up as subordinate/supervisor issue, sometimes a male/female issue--female's suggestion is ignored but a few minutes later in the same meeting the same suggestion by male is lauded. (This exact thing happened to me) but it happens frequently. Sometimes there is no obvious male/female or other difference, it just happens. While it is small comfort, I don't believe that real animus is involved in most instances, but more a matter of how forceful the personality.

The same forceful personality issue may be at play with the other knitter being selected to teach. (Not that she is better than you, just more adept at putting herself forward.)

As to not enjoying the group anymore, maybe it is time to look elsewhere, but there are generally not that many groups around. It IS the nature of organizations to change over time and opinions can become strong enough for the group to split, re-form into a number of different groups. Do you have the desire and drive to canvas the group to find a smaller subset of people with similar feelings? If that is not you, then the question becomes whether or not the current situation is better than no group at all.

Not to seem uncaring, and none of these comments seem 'fair' or 'supportive,' but they are based on well established group dynamics. My M.S. is in organization dynamics and development. Your comments and story are repeated over and over in many different times, places and kinds of organizations. Some organizations are more aware of them and work to make things different and better, some do not.

We personally can control only ourselves and that usually starts with being very clear about our own desires AND in realizing if our emotional responses to others have lead us to unrealistic expectations.

I hope maybe these comments will be food for thought and contribute to your coming to a better place regarding yourself and this group.

Happy knitting.



sarah66 said:


> A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...
> 
> When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
> I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.
> ...


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## castingstitches (Oct 16, 2013)

Maybe you should start a new group with old friends and others people within the group that are unhappy.


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## jacquigram (May 7, 2011)

This has been very interesting to read everyone's ideas and opinions on groups. I happen to have a friend who is a terrific knitter, crocheter and quilter ± seamstress and she is willing to share her knowledge with anyone who wants to be involved in any of those crafts. She is never pushy or snotty re her marvelous skills or knowledge. We have a craft group at church that meets once a month for a few hours and she always try to be there. Some people as this open to men too come regularly and others come when they need help with a project. It is a lot of fun. How interesting to see everyone's projects.


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## fcpjap (Jul 25, 2011)

I admit that I don't join ANY kind of group because this always seems to happen. (PTA, church, craft group, etc). It usually boils down to the most aggressive, strong personality tying to control the others. I guess it is the law of nature. So it seems that I have "cut off my nose, to spite my face", I guess, because I just don't join. I've become somewhat of a hermit just because I am too old to play games.


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

This happened to me in a way with a patchwork group I joined.The teacher was brilliant and became a very good friend.Then she bowed out and a much less talented teacher took over-a nice woman,mind,but so uninspiring.I left,kept up my friendships:then the original teacher died very suddenly and very young. After that somehow I haven't felt like doing any patchwork,but a friend's husband has taken it up and has acquired my stash of "bits".


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## liz morris (Dec 28, 2014)

I am a relatively new member of a crafting club who meet weekly, and mainly knit at the group as my "needlework" is mainly dressmaking - not really a mobile sort of thing. The group was formed by the amalgamation of a quilting group and a patchwork group, but the current membership do any number of crafts. It is not a large group, but is very friendly and helpful. 

As I said, I am a relatively new member and find it suits me, but since I have joined several members have come and gone for one reason or another. If I did not enjoy the meetings and the company I would have no hesitation in moving on, possibly starting a new group myself. It is entirely up to you whether you sit in the corner and be a mouse or branch out and start a new group.


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## jjolo32 (Dec 26, 2014)

You are all lucky enough to have a group to knit with. I live in a small town and know of no one else that knits or does hand work.Would love to have someone to knit with.


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

pinkladydew said:


> I go to a monthly gathering at my church, its called "Sewing Seeds" It's geared towards women , we have a pot luck lunch , and women bring any craft or project they feel like bringing, we willingly teach each other when the need arises , but in no way is someone in charge of what is done , or how or when. We meet the first Saturday of each month ,mostly in our church kitchen, but sometimes at someones house.
> I guess I am blessed to have such a great group of women to meet up with on a regular basis.
> 
> Maybe you could start something like this in your community!


This sounds like a wonderful idea


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> Lots of issues here.
> 
> First, the incident of having your suggestion ignored only to have another suggest the same thing and have the group run with it happens over and over and over. Sometimes it comes up as subordinate/supervisor issue, sometimes a male/female issue--female's suggestion is ignored but a few minutes later in the same meeting the same suggestion by male is lauded. (This exact thing happened to me) but it happens frequently. Sometimes there is no obvious male/female or other difference, it just happens. While it is small comfort, I don't believe that real animus is involved in most instances, but more a matter of how forceful the personality.
> 
> ...


Thank you Elyse, this all makes sense, and now I'm beginning to apply everyone's comments to the two main characters involved, I can see I was perhaps being a little sensitive. Actually I was just being ME, and I'm happy being me :thumbup:


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## Idaho (Jul 28, 2011)

Interesting thread and one many of us can relate to. There are differences in the way people operate in this world. Some are brash and pushy (these people generally enter politics), some are more reserved and polite (these generally get run over by the politicians who are mostly interested in promoting themselves. 

You mention a feeling of disconnect from the group before the latest incidents of having your ideas ignored and your help overlooked. Your perceptions are correct. It's time to find a new group, or, if you are willing, stand up and say, "I'm SO happy you have decided to go with my idea. How can WE make this work?" They'll probably be so surprised that you've asserted yourself that they'll drop a few stitches.


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## Milocat (Sep 5, 2012)

I can imagine just why you are upset. I started a group a couple of years ago with a few friends who wanted to learn to knit socks. We meet once a week and over time have moved to different venues. We now meet in a local club and the group has remained largely unchanged over time. What has changed is that I started out as the teacher as none of the others had knitted socks, but now everyone is pretty skilled and so they help one another and if someone new comes along, usually one of the others does the teaching. I felt a bit overlooked when this first happened, but now I think it is great that my (former) students feel confident enough to step up to help a new member. I still show them new techniques and materials, and bring new patterns etc. but the group is happy and harmonious and we share the teaching.


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## Gerrie Pennock (Jan 29, 2014)

Our local library has a knitting day. We have ages from 10 to 80 +. Go to your library and consult with how to start a knitting group. Ours is called "Sit N Knit". We laugh around a table and help one another. Enjoy.


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## Janice Wilkens (Feb 20, 2015)

Downsouth Knitter said:


> People always have been, and apparently will continue to be ... people.
> 
> I wrote this up a long time ago for my kids and have had it on the fridge for years.
> 
> ...


I love that. Thx for sharing.


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## Sldelisa (May 12, 2012)

I agree that it happens too many times. It seems that a few take over and the rest of us have to follow along. Well, no more following. Me a leader and start your own group. By the way, I love the word "niggles." I have never end heard it before.


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## Sldelisa (May 12, 2012)

It should say Be a leader....


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## dhendrix (Jul 26, 2011)

I started a knitting group at my church. Everyone is on their best behavior (as we meet at the church), and it is the most relaxed and happy group I know! Maybe a church knitting group would be more fulfilling for you?


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Yep, this often happens when a group gets too large!
We have a small group which meets weekly in one another's homes, refreshments supplied by either the hostess, usually, or someone who does not host ever for whatever reason. Works great for us! No teaching, just sharing. 
I am also in a large knitting group in a retirement community, sometimes I think small is better.


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

If I felt the need to teach in that group, I would put out feelers and say I'm thinking about doing bla bla bla who would like to learn how or join me. There's no reason that more than one teaching experience can't go on at the same time.


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## Idaho (Jul 28, 2011)

Sldelisa said:


> It should say Be a leader....


Me a leader! I dunno. Kinda works.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

It's time for you to withdraw. After a short while, you can always start another small group without hurting anyone's feelings. Just invite a few knitters to your home for a session and let it go from there -- they'll probably want to continue meeting. If not, try inviting a different bunch of knitters and see what happens. Keep it casual from the beginning.


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

Groups change over time. It is just the nature of groups. If you are unhappy and uncomfortable in your current group it is up to you to be the change you want to see. It doesn't do you or the rest of the group any good if you are unhappy. You have options; speak up about your concerns, leave the group and knit by yourself, or start your own. Or just wait, and in a few months or so, it will all change again.


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## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

Sarah66,

I have experienced this situation you describe. It happens. Some personality types tend to feed off of the energy of a group and suck the life out of it. The group dynamics become so unbalanced.

What is your personality type? There are 16 personality types. I have taken the Myers-Briggs test 4 times and I am a solid INTP. My husband is a solid INTJ. We are so in tune with each other it is scary.

This test is free and takes a few minutes to complete.

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp#questionnaire

No personality type is better than another, just different.


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## terriyaki (Feb 10, 2011)

i belong to the Shawl Ministry at my church, what a wonderful group of ladies that belong. We have fun, laugh, and even help someone with their knitting, crocheting, etc. It;s been the best group ever that I have enjoyed so much and look forward every week to go. Check out a church group, you don't necessarily need to belong to a certain church or none at all, everyone is welcomed.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

I agree with the "spin off" idea. Get like-minded friends together and have your own group again.


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Interesting thread and one many of us can relate to. There are differences in the way people operate in this world. Some are brash and pushy (these people generally enter politics), some are more reserved and polite (these generally get run over by the politicians who are mostly interested in promoting themselves.
> 
> You mention a feeling of disconnect from the group before the latest incidents of having your ideas ignored and your help overlooked. Your perceptions are correct. It's time to find a new group, or, if you are willing, stand up and say, "I'm SO happy you have decided to go with my idea. How can WE make this work?" They'll probably be so surprised that you've asserted yourself that they'll drop a few stitches.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## TNS (Nov 27, 2012)

It might be easier if you have some way of not looking like a breakaway group - I've only started knitting again over the past 5 years, but before this a group of us in the local Woman's institute used to meet up informally for craft and chat, just in people's homes for a set time (eg 2 hours) during which you could drop in. Didn't matter what you were doing, even nothing but chat was OK. There was also a group of us who went on local walks. We just announced the time/ place at the main meeting so anyone who wanted could turn up.


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

Gerrie Pennock said:


> Our local library has a knitting day. We have ages from 10 to 80 +. Go to your library and consult with how to start a knitting group. Ours is called "Sit N Knit". We laugh around a table and help one another. Enjoy.


This would be a good idea if the library group wasn't already taken over by the same character. a year ago it was a cosy 8-12 regulars. Now it is heaving at 30 plus with it hard to have a decent conversation. I think I may find a small room to hire, and stipulate anyone can come but to a maximum number. Mrs Bossy will be moving several hundred miles in a few months, so fear that she will turn up doesn't bother me. 
It has also just occurred to me that the group may shrink again without their great leader to show the way. Now THAT's made me smile (sorry if it seems a little uncharitable, just trying to cling on to a glimmer of light...)


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

Dangrktty said:


> Sarah66,
> 
> I have experienced this situation you describe. It happens. Some personality types tend to feed off of the energy of a group and suck the life out of it. The group dynamics become so unbalanced.
> 
> ...


This is fascinating, I am ISFJ whatever that means!
I think I'll bookmark this page, could be useful in my counselling work!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

I attend, intermittently, a knitting group at a LYS which is informal to the point that people are constantly coming and going. No doubt that's the best fit for me, because I'm not a "groupie" due to many bad experiences with them over a lifetime. When I attend the group and find compatible people there, yippee. When the power folks are there trying to out-compete one another or trying to instigate competitions among the others, that's my cue to keep it short and move on until the next time (they meet once a week). At my age of 76 I tend to take many things far less seriously than when I was younger and had some competitive juices of my own. Now I contribute what I can, respond to what is positive, and leave when things begin getting rowdy :~). As another KPer said, people are still ...people.


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## Paula - Sussex UK (Mar 26, 2011)

Not so much as a power struggle, but this is what I found when going along to a local knitting and craft group meeting. There were about 6 ladies, three of whom were weaving and one who did nothing as the poor soul evidently had dementia. I was made to feel like a second clas citizen as I was the only one knitting and with shop bought wool at that - I wasn't using wool from a sheep I had reared and whose wool I had processed myself. Next - the fact that I had only lived in the area for 10 years evidently meant that I had not served the requisite period of apprenticeship. I was not included in the conversation. However, when I said that I could trace my ancestors back to 1759 in the parish I was told, "Well, that's alright then." But this did not mean that things improved. All they did was slag off various people in the area and any attempts by me to vary the conversation on non-contraversial like the weather, yarn shops etc were met by put me downs. At no stage were craft techniques discussed. Haven't been back - much prefer KP. Hoorah!!!


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## Phyllis42 (Mar 5, 2012)

Sadly, that just happens in life ... not necessarily groups of this and that. As a youngster, I would make my opinion known whether repeating or being louder. Now I just look at them and don't care. Some of the knitters will figure that out on their own and come to you.


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## knittingagain (Apr 12, 2011)

I would take those of you who are a bit disgruntled, & start your own group--a splinter group. If anyone says anything or makes a fuss about you all leaving, be honest & say why you are unhappy there. In my area, we moved from home to home, whoever wanted to host for the day. We had a great time! We made decisions as a group (what day of the week to meet, how often, time of day, etc). It was a fun time. Unfortunately, we only had 5 regular attendees, & 3 of them moved out of state. That pretty much ended the group. But I'd do it again any time!


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## turtle58 (Mar 1, 2014)

sarah66 said:


> A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...
> 
> When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
> I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.
> ...


It seems to happen in any group that starts small and intimate and then grows. In this area one was a Bible study, one for quilting [by hand], and various others. What would be a nice size group? 6? 8? Invite friends over for tea and bring their knitting. Just sit and talk and knit. Don't make it like you are competing with the other group, just be with friends and let things take their own course. You might end up having tea at your house for a few months and someone else offers to have tea at their house.....

Also, if there are enough people, it needs to split off. A large group simply cannot help all their people--not with knitting or social contact, nothing. [I'll bet there are many others who are in the same "boat" as you.]

Anyway. Good luck to you and I will be knitting with you.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

I belong to a small intimate group, hosted by a friend who occasionally invites a new person in the community. We meet at her house once a month and have a potluck luncheon which is always fun too. So, start your own group!


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## RV living (Jan 6, 2015)

You are not alone in this. Many of the churches we visit in our travels have small groups within the church for the same reasons you have posted.
You could still be part of the large group that might meet once a month or a few times a year and still have a few of the people from that large group get together in small groups. Small groups are limited to usually no more than 12 people and fit a particular niche. That niche could be by age, by type of knitting done (those who prefer scarves and shawls vs those who prefer to work on baby items, etc.) It's good to be able to share in a large group, but harder because when there are so many people some in the group don't like to share with everyone. 
It might be time to set the original group up as more of a meeting place where people can find out what the small groups are doing and share patterns and new finds with everyone and let the small group focus on sharing tips and teaching.


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## Gweneth 1946 (May 20, 2012)

I feel a little that way also. I joined a quilting group and attend there monthly meeting and have done a few work shops. I have yet to attend their weekly get together where everyone can either bring their own work or help with the making of a quilt. I am busy on that day. I get along with everyone but feel guilty when I don't participate in the request to bring in sweets, sell tickets every Spring to make money, or get involved as president, treasurer, secretary etc etc. I know someone has to but I did not join to get involved in the guts of the group. There are people who are go getters and that is what many companies and organizations look for in a person. We are not cut from that cloth. But I am sure you will someday find something that you like to do hands on and get more involved. Don't beat yourself over it. :thumbup:


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## Dot-I (Jun 25, 2011)

Contact the people you enjoyed being with and invite them all for a coffee klatch and ask them to bring their knitting with them for an afternoon of congenial knitting and conversation. No need for anyone "taking over". Just enjoy a knitting party atmosphere. Good Luck.


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## Irene Kidney (May 29, 2011)

Had different problems with a group but know the feeling. With mine it was meant to be a knit and natter group but developed into a craft group not what I or a friend wanted so we left. Going to try a different group. Good luck.


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## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

I have belonged to other groups that became 'overstructured'. 
They each imploded after a short time.
I agree, start your own small intimate knitting group.
Probably some of the other 'original' group would like that too.


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## Rescue Mom (Jul 28, 2011)

I know exactly how you feel! I went to a local knitting shop when it first opened and was delighted to be able to participate, as there are no other shops within our area. Started out fine, then I noticed we were all talking more than knitting, and every time I had a question, I had to compete for the owner's attention. To top it off, every time someone came into the shop, the owner (who was running the classes I took) would pop up and yell welcome to (name of shop) and then run over to them if they had a question. Decided it was more about the owner making moolah than her making a cozy meeting place for all of us to feel good and talk while we knit (as she professed). Got tired of it and decided I did not need to drive a good half hour each way - at night - to knit. Still have yarn I bought from her I have not used yet! She'd keep pushing all the new products she got in and kinda made me feel like I should buy some to "support my local yarn shop". Bullfincky! I've learned more on YouTube and through trial and error on my own, and spend much less getting quality yarn online. Maybe we expect too much...


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## seedee95758 (Dec 8, 2013)

Yes. I'm in such a group right now, though not a knitting group. It has changed over the years, and at one point or another there have been power struggles, but our group is still going. If the group is not fun for you any longer, maybe as someone else suggested you should start your own group.


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## mandymar (Feb 24, 2013)

Don't be up set their is always someone who wants to be a Big Wheel in a group but also remember what dogs do to wheels


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## lemonaid (Dec 11, 2014)

oh, but those are wonderful news! 
You could wait it out or start the group with people you like right away. Why wait for things to get better when you can MAKE them better for yourself right now?

Good luck and happy knitting!
It's easy to follow in a group run by a know-it-all bossy organizer, but it's way more rewarding to share doing what you like with a bunch of friends.

Paid lessons with teachers on topics you have an interest in, is fine, but it's another thing altogether to go knit and natter for fun and free with likeminded friends.



sarah66 said:


> This would be a good idea if the library group wasn't already taken over by the same character. a year ago it was a cosy 8-12 regulars. Now it is heaving at 30 plus with it hard to have a decent conversation. I think I may find a small room to hire, and stipulate anyone can come but to a maximum number. Mrs Bossy will be moving several hundred miles in a few months, so fear that she will turn up doesn't bother me.
> It has also just occurred to me that the group may shrink again without their great leader to show the way. Now THAT's made me smile (sorry if it seems a little uncharitable, just trying to cling on to a glimmer of light...)


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## immunurse (May 2, 2011)

Been there! I, and a couple of my friends, have stopped going to the knitting guild at the Extension Office. There is one woman who seems to dominate and she isn't very pleasant to me. She is, in fact, the ONLY person I have met since moving to the small town, countryfied heaven I now call home who has treated me like an "outsider" or "damn Yankee." At least I choose to believe that it's that and not my choice of underarm deodorant!! :-D 

Also, I was hearing about a couple of the women actually becoming angry about certain people who usually won most of the prizes at the County Fair, and wanted anyone who won the "Sweepstakes" prize in Knitting or Crochet to be forced to "sit out" the next year's Fair. All I could think was, "Is this High School???"

I also used to attend quilting guild and stopped going there too. In that case it was more b/c of the acoustics in the room, which, along with the sewing machines and many simultaneous conversations made it impossible for me to hear what anyone was saying. Then I realized that with all the time I spent packing up my portable machine, fabric etc. and the drive time and time spent carrying it all inside and setting it up - I could be using just carrying on working at home.

i still have friendships with many of the women I met at these groups and we get together other places.

Sometimes I consider trying to start another group, maybe I still will. But my dance card is pretty full with volunteer, exercise and other pursuits.


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## knitwit42 (Apr 23, 2011)

Why not just post right here on Knitting Paradise and get a group together in your area. I just went into Swaps, Kal's, Periodical's, and Group Activities. Asked if any one in my area would like to get together for a meet up. We get together once a month at a neighborhood coffee house. I've met a lot of nice ladies through KP. Even from different states and countries.


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## 9sueseiber (Oct 29, 2011)

You shouldn't have to try keeping it from other people in the group. Just tell them that you prefer a smaller informal group, and anyone that is interested is welcome. When you try keeping things quiet, or talk to this one and not that one, and don't tell her, types of things, that's when feelings get hurt and people start accusing you of sneaking around to disrupt the group. Especially, like you said, in a small town. You might even announce it at the group you are in. Just say, you would still like to come to the larger group at times, or all the time, if that's what you would like to do. Just be on the up and up, and not try to keep it a secret. Just my opinion, hope some of this will help you.
Good luck,
Sue


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## Bridgeknitter (Sep 18, 2014)

sarah66 said:


> A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...
> 
> When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
> I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.
> ...


What you've been experiencing is normal. All groups have "lives"--they form, grow, and often evolve as membership changes. When group gets too big or doesn't meet members' needs anymore, part of it needs to branch off and start another group. Figure out friends who you enjoy knitting with and start new group!


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## judyr (Feb 20, 2011)

It could also be age too. Some younger folds seem to think they invented the craft and when they need help, who do they go to - the old timers. Yes, this has happened to me so don't feel like you are one of a kind. You are not. Some people like to keep things the way they are and not muddy the waters, but others like to stir it up. The above suggestions are all good ones, so don't give up the fight! Get your own group going with people who feel the same as you do. Good luck.


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

I believe this happens often as a group gets larger. Maybe some of the original members feel the same. You could break off and start a knitting group again.


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## nhauf001 (Jan 18, 2011)

it happens all the time and not just to knitting groups. Be as involved as you want to, go when you feel like it, don't when you would rather be alone -- I kind of dropped out of my neighborhood knitting group, but I offer to help someone I see struggling, or someone who is a truly a newbie who is intimidated by the group. I recently had 2 new students that I worked with together, but they were a bit competitive with each other, so I gave 3 lessons together and then told them to call and I would be there if they ran into difficulties. Both are knitting up a storm and are much braver when they don't feel the need to compare to the other. I've very proud of each of them. The other thing I found is one of them found some 'aids' which worked well and taught me something I didn't know either. I think they both realized that it is a journey and not a destination, and we are all in different places on our journey, but we can help each other out from time to time. and . . . I am a bit shy, so I do better with groups of 5 or less -- but I do join the larger group from time to time.


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## OccasionallyKnotty (Jan 30, 2013)

What you are going through is common. I was in a group in which another lady and I became assigned co-organizers. Problem was the other woman felt the need to become a leader of an organization. I saw the role as just being the one that can find a location and post announcements. Ladies that stitch dont need direction other than directions to the location. So I quit and left the role to the other woman.

Long story short: The other lady was not showing up at her own group, but when she did it was to say what we needed to do. Members of the group started pestering me to start a new group. Not a big deal since the original philosophy was that small groups would form from the larger group. We would share information and announce anything that may be of interest. So I shared the origination of a new location, everyone's welcome, would love input on good days and times, whatcha think? Next thing you know I was removed and blocked from the group. 

It's unfortunate that she took any of this as a competition. I never saw it as such. But now her group exists in name only and the group that wasnt supposed to be a group has a growing membership, weekly meetings, special events and a leader that refuses to be the leader. The philosophy, What do we want to do? 

It sounds to me like your group has become a power thing, too, where you see it as a social club. If you are seeing it, others are feeling it, and it may be time to move on. There is nothing wrong with that. It shouldnt be a competition. Its time to talk with others that are feeling the same way and find a new spot. 

Our group has grown through the use of meetup.com. While I know nothing about finding locations outside of the states, I do know a thing or two about setting up a social groups, so feel free to contact me if you want any ideas.


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## GmaJoyce (Apr 23, 2015)

I started a knitting (or any stitchery) group several years ago. There are aoubt 8 or us. We meet in our homes (rotating) each Monday afternoon for a couple of hours, serve tea/coffee (that's all). We are all retirees. In the summertime, we meet outside at a communal gazebo. We have great chats about everything & anything, including show & tell, requests for help &/or ideas. There is no competiveness, just friendship. And it works for us.
GmaJoyce


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## SEA (Feb 9, 2011)

For a change of pace you could contact your local schools and present the idea of teaching during a study period or an afternoon program. Maybe they'd be a small amount of money offered.

You could also offer lessons at your home for young through adult where you could establish your own clients and group.

Do you have a college near by?

SEA


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## bundyanne07 (Aug 24, 2014)

Unfortunately this happens occasionally in all groups as some people think they know everything and want to take over.
As some others have suggested, you and your loyal friends could begin another group - that's what I would do, or - just you and your friends take it in turns and host a morning for each other and after your knitting and chattering enjoy a nice morning or afternoon tea!!


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## 33141 (Aug 24, 2011)

Hi I belong to our guild which is much more structured (with 200+ members it about has to be!) and a smaller group that meets weekly. The small informal group has expanded by 2-3 members and some weeks its hard to fit everyone in. About the only thing we have trouble agreeing on is where to meet and eat. 

We did have a new member that needed lots of help and was so excited about learning she would interrupt me (or someone else speaking to me) when she needed help. She was great and very understanding when I explained it was causing some resentment with the others. She and I started meeting separately at a coffee house or for lunch so I could devote more time to helping her learn. She also takes easier projects to the weekly group sessions so she can work more independently and have a chance to relax and visit. She very generously always wants to buy my lunch but I enjoy her company and teaching so we agreed to compromise and I let her buy lunch once every few months. 

Sometimes when folks grouch about one of the other members, I have to rein in my natural urge to "fix" any ill will between others in the group.


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## elainjoyce (Mar 3, 2011)

I belong to a knitting group called sit and stitch. Meets at the local library. It's getting smaller and smaller these days. Don't know how long we can keep it going. Down to 5 of us. Nice group of ladies. One in her 80's and one 70, 52, 45 and 42. New people come and go but dont seem to stay long. I just think its from 6 pm to 8 pm and that's family time. I couldn't do days as I take care of a 5 and 3 year old. Everyone brings their projects and it's a social time to talk and work. Not a learning group. If someone needs help we will if we can. I say start a group and see what happens. It's a mystery why ours isn't growing.


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## mirium (May 14, 2013)

sarah66 said:


> A bit of a rant, but also a genuine question...
> 
> When I move house and found a local knitting group 6 years ago I was delighted- I didn't even know they existed. Over the years, the group has grown, and as in any group some characters are stronger than others. But over the last year or two, it has become so structured and organised, all about events and promoting one person's teaching workshops, that I don't enjoy going any more. It is no longer the friendly intimate knit and natter that to used to be.
> I know I'm not alone in thinking this, and I feel blessed to have made friends from the original group, but I wish it was the way it used to be.
> ...


As others have said, when a group grows to a certain size some formal organization is usually needed and the character of the group changes -- but if the leaders are more interested in serving than in dominating, usually smaller subgroups crop up that have that old intimate feeling. You mention that one person is taking over the teaching -- sheesh, with a group that size isn't there a need for more than one teacher? That makes me think there's a Queen WannaBee in your old nest, not just the natural tendency of people to think that an outgoing person with a lot of confidence knows more than a quiet expert, and there's an In Crowd that you've been shut out of.

I'll bet there are others who miss the smaller, more intimate group -- or who are looking for one -- and are wishing someone like you would start one. I was lucky enough to be part of one that grew, but everyone continued to treasure that there was no hierarchy. (That might have happened because we rotated whose home we'd meet in, so new members joined by invitation only.) When the group grew, it got harder to fit in one home and to find a day when we could all meet -- so we had two meetings each week, you went to the one that was convenient for you that week, and that was constantly changing so it remained one group. We rotated who was "responsible for refreshments" at each meeting (not the host) but arranging for someone else to bake/buy the goodies counted, and those arrangements were often made during the meetings. If you'd had a rough week, it was perfectly acceptable to show up and just sit there.

Do you have to get permission to start a subgroup for those who prefer a more intimate group, or to teach a class? If not, just do it and let the larger group know. If you do need permission, then I suggest you sound out other members to find some who think like you do, politely let QueenWannaBee know the large organized group is great and your little get-togethers are no competition, they're a different kind of thing entirely, and do it outside the big group. If she wants make you part of her organization, she'll suggest it; if not, that's her choice not yours. Have nothing but praise for the big group, even in your smaller ones -- someone's bound to repeat any criticism from you or your members/students. Just do your thing and be happy! If spite does flow from the larger group and nothing but admiration from yours, the community will probably notice.

Hope that's helpful!


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## moonsib (Sep 15, 2011)

I haven't joined a local knitting group for exactly the reasons you stated. I guess I progress better on my own. There are always one or a few personalities that stand out, and shy people like me just stay in the background. So I do much better in online groups, I respond when I want, otherwise I keep to myself.


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## Idaho (Jul 28, 2011)

OccasionallyKnotty said:


> Ladies that stitch dont need direction other than directions to the location. Love this post. Life is much too short to let other people direct yours.
> 
> Things change. Groups come and go. People move on. I am a bit of a Luddite, wishing to hang on to what is familiar and comfortable and nice. But life isn't like that. So, when it's time to say adios, do so, and new opportunities will unfold like a rose's petals in June.
> 
> Good luck and keep stitching.


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## MsRose (Oct 27, 2012)

I agree with your idea. Samll break-out groups that can still be a part of the big group at your discression.


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## MsRose (Oct 27, 2012)

I agree with your idea. Samll break-out groups that can still be a part of the big group at your discression.


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## MsRose (Oct 27, 2012)

Well said! You are a smart lady!


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

fcpjap said:


> I admit that I don't join ANY kind of group because this always seems to happen. (PTA, church, craft group, etc). It usually boils down to the most aggressive, strong personality tying to control the others. I guess it is the law of nature. So it seems that I have "cut off my nose, to spite my face", I guess, because I just don't join. I've become somewhat of a hermit just because I am too old to play games.


I have not read any further, I admit. This particular response struck a chord in me. Life is just too short to follow the beat of another drummer. Maybe I don't like their beat! Especially if they discount or ignore other people's opinions or voices. It is a shame that there always has to be one or two that must take over and get everyone to do their bidding. Maybe I'm just lazy, but I do enjoy the give and take of the Kpers. They are a great bunch, there is something for everybody and always someone willing to help. 
I have been to two groups. One group was busy trying to impress everyone else with how great they were, the other one had one leader that terrorized the rest into submission. I only attended twice, because I was insulted both times. Seems I was not allowed to have an opinion.


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

WOW, so many replies and tales of similar experiences. I have 3 pages to catch up on, will do so when I get back from work tonight.
Thank you so much for all your contributions and support.


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## nwjasu (Nov 8, 2011)

Sound like the spectrum of human nature. Groups/families/jobs have these assortments of personalities. we learn how to put up, stand up or move on. Sorry you have to go through this as my sister has in her writing group.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Patty Sutter said:


> I have belonged to other groups that became 'overstructured'.
> They each imploded after a short time.
> I agree, start your own small intimate knitting group.
> Probably some of the other 'original' group would like that too.


I love your term "overstructured"! It does happen so often, and your suggest to start over is perfect!


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## bonbarnie (Jan 23, 2011)

Live in a small senior community. We started out with over 10 ladies. They came and went and finally one of the most verbal passed over. Noe it appears that I am the only talker left. It is so boring that I just had to stay home. I feel bad but no subject can get them to participate.


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## elainjoyce (Mar 3, 2011)

bonbarnie said:


> Live in a small senior community. We started out with over 10 ladies. They came and went and finally one of the most verbal passed over. Noe it appears that I am the only talker left. It is so boring that I just had to stay home. I feel bad but no subject can get them to participate.


That would be hard for me to. I'm not much of a talker, but do talk some at the small group I am in. I couldn't be a part of a group that just sit and didn't share themselves either. Were down to 5 now and this 5 isn't always there as they have things going on. We have some comfortable silences now and then but it's a good group of ladies and we keep each other entertained as we work on our projects.


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## PauletteB. (Feb 7, 2012)

Sometimes it is good to start over. I am sure you have others who feel as you do.


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## Poffas (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree with jonibee when she suggests starting your own more intimate and friendly group for like-minded knitters who want to meet up with friends and have a coffee and a chat


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## mtnMarilyn (May 11, 2011)

I have longed to be in a knitting group for some time. I live in a very small town in the California Sierra foothills. To my knowledge there are no groups nor are there any in the next closest town. The closest groups are about an hour away and I would gladly go but they are closed to newcomers. Bummer! 
I have tried a couple of times to get a group together but they are hard for one reason or another - none of us lives close to anyone else. 
All said, I do feel encouraged to try again! I will gladly open my home and welcome friends and new comers, as well. I'd love to make some new friends.


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