# Brother KH260 Patterning problem



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi, I recently bought a Brother 260 Bulky machine as fully working with new sponge bar fitted. However, I can't get it to knit any patterns with punchcards. It only selects random needles, and each move of the carriage makes the punchcard turn up 5 rows at a time. 
I've always used Knitmaster machines, so this is the first Brother. After being told by others what a fantastic machine this is, I'm very disheartened. I haven't got a clue what could be wrong with it. It knits stocking stitch fine, so I tried tuck and then fairisle, but having the same problem with both, and even when using different punchcards. I'm following the manual precisely, so I am completely baffled. I really want to knit patterns on it.
Please has anyone got any ideas, as to what the problem could be.?
Thanks for any help.


----------



## Angela c (Dec 12, 2013)

I am completely baffled as well.
I have a 836 and not had this problem, it is not unlike the 260 just different gauge.

Have you looked on you tube, there is all sorts about brother machines
Here is one I have found


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

mispatterning is probably just a case of needing a good cleaning.
Card moving 5 rows at a time - clueless. - Does it move all at once or one row at a time
Sounds like an clueless seller that picked up a machine at a sale.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi Angela, I've watched that video, and her machine is doing the same as mine with the needles when it is set to pattern knit. I've never had a machine do this before either. It's so frustrating. I spent ages on Google and Youtube, before putting the topic on KP.
The machine looks quite clean, and had been used regularly, until a few months ago. The lady had to give up on machine knitting, as she has really bad arthritis in her wrists, and it's too painful to move the carriage.
I will give the machine and carriage a really good clean tomorrow, and hopefully that will help. 
Thank you for your reply.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi MKEtc. The card moves all at once, which is baffling. I bought the machine off a lady who has been machine knitting for 40 years. She has knitted some fantastic things. She said that the machine was working perfectly, and she has fitted a new sponge bar, which I checked. She hasn't used it for a few months, so maybe something has seized up in that time, after being used regularly. I really hope I find a solution, as I bought it particularly to do fairisle and thread lace. 
At the moment I can't get the carriage to move when it's set to pattern, it's like as though the timing belt is stopping it. But I don't see how it could be.
I'll give it a good clean, even though it looks clean, and see if that helps.
Thanks for your reply.


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

That is probably the problem. The clutch assy gets stuck with old grease and needs to be cleaned. The carriage should move quite easily when KC is engaged.


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

This happened with a card reader in one of mine, the service person said it was caused by old grease hardening from nonuse and in your 260s case yarn fibers; cleaned and lubed it worked like new. Take the plastic housing off (easy to remove and replace) and see how much fiber is inside, pushed in and around the gears.


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

KateWood said:


> This happened with a card reader in one of mine, the service person said it was caused by old grease, cleaned and lubed it worked like new.


I have just finished refurbishing 4 Brother bulky machines and all required disassembly of clutch and cardreader assy to clean them. Makes a tremendous difference in how they work. They cannot be cleaned or lubed without taking them apart unfortunately but well worth the effort and time.

As Kate said, works effortlessly - like new. I sometimes wonder how many people don't realize what they should work like.


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

likely not too many with all the vintage equipment sold to new knitters who start using as received. Some are timid about removing the plastic housing to clean out the fibers that long brushes leave behind. Doing this once or twice a year can prevent getting to the point of having to disassemble the clutch and reader.


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

The bare minimum in my opinion is to remove clutch shaft. This allows you to clean the clutch by soaking, and clean under 2 nylon cams. 

The clutch shaft is usually gummed up as well as under nylon cams and no amount of external cleaning can clean these up. It also lets you clean the clutch. This is one of many places I believe grease is the only solution - on the shaft and under cam unit. You cannot get to them when assembled to lube them.

The needle selector cam can also be moved back and forth when disassembled allowing the shaft to be cleaned and oiled. If the needle selector cam is split, it's a good time to replace it also. My opinion is even when split there is almost no chance of trouble but better safe than sorry.

The first time I was brave enough to do this I was amazed as to how well machine operated when done (as you're aware). Now I always do this to all machines I get. Takes a bit of time, but sure it will keep machines going for another 20+ years.


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

I agree it needs to be done but realistically, not too many New knitters are going to be inclined or able to do this if their card reader is selecting Ns and advancing rows as it should. Everyone has to get brave enough first. A good how to video would definitely assist with that


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

KateWood said:


> I agree it needs to be done but realistically, not too many New knitters are going to be inclined or able to do this


I'll be the first to admit, it was quite a while before I got brave enough to delve deep inside. I only got brave enough when I had 2 machines that were alike so I could use one for reference. Along with the available service manuals I was able to get very brave. It probably was 2 years of getting braver before I felt comfortable taking anything totally apart.

My bravest feat was on a KH970. It was in great shape except it had a destroyed needle bed. I bought it as parts but was able to 'transplant' a bed from an incomplete, dead but pristine 930 I had picked up for parts. Thanks to service manuals and patience, it was a success and worked great (I did talk with Needletek to confirm it was possible before attempting - said he never did it but thought it would work) . Being a machinist, I was comfortable setting all the required measurements spelled out in the service manuals.

You are correct. Most is beyond the scope of what most are capable of doing, however it is well worth the money to get a machine serviced by someone that will do it right. There are many 'solutions' that do not require disassembling, but I feel they are band aids and not solutions - Fix the symptom but not the problem. The machines are 25+ years old at this point. Although thhey were built to last a lifetime and some more, they do require some maintenance to keep performing well. Unfortunately, until you use one in good shape, most probably don't realize how hard they're working.


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

leanne17 said:


> Hi, I recently bought a Brother 260 Bulky machine as fully working with new sponge bar fitted. However, I can't get it to knit any patterns with punchcards. It only selects random needles, and each move of the carriage makes the punchcard turn up 5 rows at a time.
> I've always used Knitmaster machines, so this is the first Brother. After being told by others what a fantastic machine this is, I'm very disheartened. I haven't got a clue what could be wrong with it. It knits stocking stitch fine, so I tried tuck and then fairisle, but having the same problem with both, and even when using different punchcards. I'm following the manual precisely, so I am completely baffled. I really want to knit patterns on it.
> Please has anyone got any ideas, as to what the problem could be.?
> Thanks for any help.


Hi Leanne,
There is a lot of help on youtube for cleaning brother knitting machines. The best videos are by ASK JACK 
http://theanswerlady.com/askjack.html 
Scroll down to the complete play list of videos of machine maintenance and repairs. He has a video of cleaning the card reader. Card readers are the same on brother bulky and standard machines.

He has lots of other videos which are helpful. He also tells you which chemicals to use to clean and lube, AND where to get them.

These mechanical machines hardly ever go completely wrong. They just need cleaning (maybe adjusting) and lubrication.

Good luck.

Rita in Raleigh, NC, USA


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

Leanne, as an experienced knitter you probably know that you can download the service manual for the 260 from 
http://machineknittingetc.com/ 
I find these service manuals extremely helpful!!

Rita in Raleigh


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

I fully agree that regular care and maintenance is required to keep the machines in top condition and removing the plastic housing to clean well inside of the KMs should be part of the scheduled annual (or so) maintenance routine. The manuals don't even go that far, so this would definitely be more thorough and could literally stall, not prevent, the possible necessity for a once in a lifetime servicing with disassembly rebuild or replace parts you are describing that the op's machine is highly likely in need of.


----------



## nannie343 (Aug 15, 2012)

Maybe cleaning the punchcard reader, I know old grease and old can get hard and sticky over time.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you very much to everyone who has replied and given all the information. I had stripped down a Knitmaster card assembly, so that Won't be a problem. However, please can you tell me where the clutch assembly is and how I would get to that please? I live in Cornwall UK, and there aren't even any knitting machine shops etc within 200 miles of me. And the only repair places I can find on Google are about 400 miles away. So it definitely looks like it will be a DIY job. As I've never had a Brother machine, I was afraid to strip anything down, but after reading your advice and comments, I will have a go. The lady said she cleaned it regularly, but I think it was just a cosmetic clean!!!! I will keep in touch as to how I get on with it. I will take my time to get it right as it's such a lovely machine when I've just done stocking stitch. I'm really looking forward to being able to pattern on it soon.
Thanks again for all your help. It's very much appreciated.
Lesley


----------



## Azzara (Jan 23, 2014)

One of these might help.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqxg8u5-958&index=43&list=PLezPGIR4gsIeajlPZIo6JM4X2jB7PMos9


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you very much to everyone who has replied and given all the information. I had stripped down a Knitmaster card assembly, so that Won't be a problem. However, please can you tell me where the clutch assembly is and how I would get to that please? I live in Cornwall UK, and there aren't even any knitting machine shops etc within 200 miles of me. And the only repair places I can find on Google are about 400 miles away. So it definitely looks like it will be a DIY job. As I've never had a Brother machine, I was afraid to strip anything down, but after reading your advice and comments, I will have a go. The lady said she cleaned it regularly, but I think it was just a cosmetic clean!!!! I will keep in touch as to how I get on with it. I will take my time to get it right as it's such a lovely machine when I've just done stocking stitch. I'm really looking forward to being able to pattern on it soon.
Thanks again for all your help. It's very much appreciated.
Lesley


----------



## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

leanne17 said:


> Thank you very much to everyone who has replied and given all the information. I had stripped down a Knitmaster card assembly, so that Won't be a problem. However, please can you tell me where the clutch assembly is and how I would get to that please? I live in Cornwall UK, and there aren't even any knitting machine shops etc within 200 miles of me. And the only repair places I can find on Google are about 400 miles away. So it definitely looks like it will be a DIY job. As I've never had a Brother machine, I was afraid to strip anything down, but after reading your advice and comments, I will have a go. The lady said she cleaned it regularly, but I think it was just a cosmetic clean!!!! I will keep in touch as to how I get on with it. I will take my time to get it right as it's such a lovely machine when I've just done stocking stitch. I'm really looking forward to being able to pattern on it soon.
> Thanks again for all your help. It's very much appreciated.
> Lesley


Have you tried Anne and Richard Croucher, they do repairs. I think they are in Gloucestershire


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

If you're going to attempt it yourself here's a brief description.

Download the service manual

http://machineknittingetc.com/brother-kh260-service-manual.html

Below is a brief outline of the repair. Read thru it. If it makes sense, then it is worth a try. Taking pictures during disassembly is suggested as they may be needed during reassembly.

The disassembly is rather straight forward. Page 28 to remove machine from body.

The timing belt is removed

The clutch is the cog assembly on the right. It is removed by taking off snap ring on underside of shaft. Remove spring around center shaft and pull shaft out. Clutch wheel can then be removed taking note of washer orientation under wheel. The nylon card advance cam will then slide out.

Clean everything well by soaking in denatured alcohol making sure clutch fingers move freely. Wipe out inside of machine to remove any remaining grease.

Reassembly is reverse. I use synthetic grease on these parts as they cannot be lubed after assembly.

Slide card feeder cam into place and mount clutch wheel with spacer under it. Install center shaft. The timing of wheel needs to be set as shown on page 35 (two bottom diagrams)

Replace bottom cam and install snap ring  recheck the alignment above. Replace Spring around clutch fingers.

The timing belt is installed per page 39. Check that rivet is lining up with notches in wheels.

If after reading this, it makes sense, it is worth an attempt. 
Let us know how it goes.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi MKEtc, I have downloaded the manual, and will start after lunch. However, I decided to try and take the cover off the carriage, to clean inside, and check if the loose piece is actually broken. But I cannot remove the screw in the centre of the tension dial. It doesn't look like a Philips screw (cross head) although it is similar, it also has a straight line across, as though that is for a flat head screw driver. However, the head is a bit chewed up, as though someone has tried to take it off. I have tried both types of screw driver, but none will budge the screw, so I'm completely stuck. I think there is obviously a problem in the carriage, and that is why it is jamming on the machine, even without the sinker plate.
Thanks for your help regarding the card assembly. I'll let you know how I get on.


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

leanne17 said:


> . It doesn't look like a Philips screw (cross head) although it is similar, it also has a straight line across, as though that is for a flat head screw driver.


Yes, the screws were both flat and phillips drive

Older Japanese used a slightly different Philips screw called JIS
Almost the same but the point of the screwdriver is a bit flatter. Using a standard screwdriver tends to strip screw head if the screw is tight as it really doesn't sit in screw socket correctly. Have come across many damaged screw heads on Japanese machines because of this.

If you don't have or can't get the JIS Phillips screwdriver, grinding a small bit off the point of a regular screwdriver works quite well.

In your case, the screw is already stripped so proper screwdriver probably won't help. It can be challenging to remove screws that are stripped.


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

Can't wait to hear how it all works out for you. And to be fair, the first owner very likely did everything as per the manual for regular care and annual maintenance. Even my KM was an unused/new vintage machine and its reader did exactly what yours did from the greese not bein worked through the gears.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you for all the help, but I've come to a complete standstill. There is a problem with the clutch assembly and the pink plastic on top of it. The part on the clutch that should stop is going under the metal plate to the right, and the pink plastic is going over the top of the metal plate, and partially lifting off the spindle. I have moved the carriage, while set on KC, several times, while watching the clutch work, and it happens every time. So I can't think of a solution to this problem. I am sending 3 photos. First shows where stop should actually stop. 2nd shows stop under metal plate, and 3rd shows how pink plastic has ridden over the metal plate. I haven't cleaned it yet, as you can see from the yellow grease and dirt!!!!
I don't know if any one can give any advise about this problem, so I'll wait and see.
Thanks for everyone's help up to now.


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

That's the clutch referred to earlier.
Good diagnosis and you answered your own question. Guess a good cleaning is in your future.
Center spindle is frozen to outer housing with dried grease in shaft bore or clutch fingers are frozen. I assume carriage is also hard to move. A very common issue. I believe someone here had the same problem a few weeks back.

Cant blame seller as that's not a common maintenance - but I doubt it was working recently as stated unless she only knitted plain stockinette stitch. This doesn't happen overnight.


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

Hi Lesley,
There are some youtube videos on repairing the brother card reader. They are by ASK JACK. You can find his videos from theanswerlady.com then click on Ask Jack, then scoll down to a listing of his videos. 
One is about the card reader




It is called the inner workings of the brother card reader

Another is called troubleshooting the card reader on a brother machine




That might be closer to helping you.

I love looking at their videos AND reading the service manuals from machineknittingetc.com to help me work on my machines. Jack explains how to lube the machine parts and what chemicals to use.

A printed listing of what he used can be found at 
http://theanswerlady.com/askjack.html 
and he mentions where to find the chemicals in the UK too.

Sometimes it is easier to understand the workings of machinery by seeing it in motion.

Rita in Raleigh


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

One more video that might help is 





Several reasons why a brother card reader might fail to advance.

This seems to most directly address your problem!

Rita in Raleigh


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi Rita, thank you very much for the link to the video. Sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but I have been away visiting my children and grandchildren over
the weekend.
I have watched the video, and the problem I'm having is the pink plastic piece on top of the clutch is going all the way around, it doesn't stop as the video shows. And the metal stop that should stop when it reaches the metal plate on the right, doesn't stop, it continues around underneath the metal plate. So I haven't got a clue how to fix that. It's very frustrating.
But thank you very much for your replies.
Lesley


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

The problem is as expected, in the clutch.
Try this to start

On top of clutch (the assembly under the pink thingy) there is a bunch of little fingers inside the spring ring. If you try to move the little fingers, do they move? They should all slide back and forth rather easily. 
Let us know and we can look further if that is not the issue.


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

Sorry I couldn't help you, Lesley. Maybe MKEtc has the solution for you.

Rita in Raleigh


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi MKEtc, Thanks for the help, I have tried moving them, and most move ok, but 2 or 3 are very stiff and hardly move at all.
Lesley


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

only takes 1 to stop things
You could try to oil a little and try to move them back and forth until they all move better. If you get them to move, you should be ok for now. Also hold the outside of clutch and see if the center spindle rotates. It should move a little


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi, I've oiled them and left it to soak for a few minutes, now they are all moving. But I still have then problem of the stop piece, going right under the metal plate and all the way around, instead of stopping. The fact that it doesn't stop when it should is causing the patterning not to work. I tried pressing on the metal plate, but it takes a lot of pressure to actually stop the metal stop piece going under the plate. The plate itself rises up slightly to allow the stop piece to go underneath. The photo I have attached, shows the stop coming out from under the plate, at the bottom of the photo after it has been all round. It just keeps going round and round. I don't know if there is anything I can do to fix it.
I have cleaned it since this photo was taken!!!!


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

That means the center shaft is 'glued' to the outer housing with grease. It is really not possible to lube it while together. You could try to warm it up with a hairdryer on low setting for a while and sometimes that will help free it up. Although not a solution, it might allow you to use it. If it frees up, it should work but will be stiff.

The only solution is to take it apart and really clean and lube it. I don't know how brave you are. As a minimum, the center shaft can be removed without disturbing any timing settings. For that however, you would need to remove the machine from the case.

If you feel you want to try that, I will let you know what needs to be done.


----------



## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

Lesley, Here is a video which might help.






Jack (with theanswerlady.com ) has other videos about fixing the brother card reader. 
These include:
trouble shooting the card reader on a Brother Knitting Machine

They, theanswerlady.com , have a lot of knitting machine maintenance videos on youtube.com These videos are good to use along with the service manual for your machine. And to use along with your questions to MKEtc.com or to Ask Jack of theanswerlady.com 
Aren't we lucky to have these helpful people!

Rita in Raleigh, NC, USA


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi MKEtc, thank you, I would like to have a go at removing the spindle, so would appreciate any help you can give me. I really don't want to get involved with timing issues, as I don't understand that side of things. But I'm prepared to have a go at anything else that can help me get the machine patterning. 
I tried the hairdryer, but it didn't work. If I hold the clutch, to see if the spindle turns, then nothing moves. The clutch turns as soon as I move the carriage, and if I try to turn the clutch by hand, it moves the carriage on the bed. 
I take it this is all part of the problem.
Thanks again.
Lesley


----------



## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

It is more intimidating than difficult. Although a thorough cleaning is recommended, this should get it going again.

I start on a large table covered in an old blanket.
Attached is a description of what you will need to do. If you don't understand something or get stuck/unexpected problem just ask. If for some reason, the timing is off, we will better describe how to set that also.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Thank you very much. I'll have a go and let you know how I get on.
Lesley


----------



## suedenie (Nov 15, 2015)

Sounds as if you have a poorly machine. I've not heard this problem before, I'm sure someone on. KP will have the answer. Good luck.


----------



## leanne17 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi MKEtc.com My son said that if I take my machine over to his
place, he has a day off work next Friday, so will have Friday, and Saturday to help me to strip the machine as per your instructions. So thank you very much for the download.
I will let you know how we get on, after next weekend. 
Thanks very much for all your help. If we have any problems with the timing, I will let you know.
Lesley


----------



## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

I hope he can get it knitting for you


----------



## needlebed (Sep 3, 2016)

Hi there, Since I currently have the exact same problem, I would like to know whether your problem is solved. I had a go at the problem, but then had to pack up and move house and am finally at the stage that I have the courage again to "fix" the machine. 
Have you fixed it and could you give me some pointers how? Thanks so much


----------



## MtKnitter (Dec 10, 2011)

I am also having a problem with my 260. The mechanism that moves the timing belt was seized up with grease. I pushed it hoping it would move ok but I think I got the timing out of whack. I cleaned a lubed and it moves great now but it only selects the correct needles moving the carriage from left to right. It sounds like I’m going to have to get up the courage to take the machine apart and work on the timing. I only hope I don’t make it worse.


----------

