# Imagine Ted Cruz as the next President!



## knitpresentgifts

What a fantastic introduction to Ted Cruz who just announced his run for President of the United States.

:thumbup:


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## galinipper

The eagle just flew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Isuel

How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


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## luree

I had no clue to who he was!


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## cindye6556

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/can-canadian-born-ted-cruz-run-for-president-yes/ar-BBiBLfr?ocid=ansvox11#fullstory?ocid=ansvox11


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## knitpresentgifts

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


Doesn't matter, he is an American citizen.


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## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> The eagle just flew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fantastic introduction - without a telepromter to boot!

(loved the Texan boots)


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## love2spin

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


He is an American citizen. Hey if you don't think he is an American than 'anchor babies' aren't either.


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## LyndaC

I'll vote for him.


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## peacefulknitter

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


No Thank You to Ted!!!!! issue of birth, his mother was born in Delaware, making him a "natural born citizen" as result of his mother's citizenship.

Geez!, good thing President Obama was actually born in United States, although some seem to think Hawaii isn't, they would really have field day with an out of country birth!!!!


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## CKnits

I'm glad he pitched his stetson into the process!!!

PS - from what I've read several times, (both lib and conservative opinions), the difference from BHO "birther" flaps was not the question of where he was born to a US cit Mom, but that his info was a ? fraud. (Just saying...)


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## Swiss Miss KT

He is awesome! Wish we had more like him, and Tray Gowdy!


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## knitpresentgifts

peacefulknitter said:


> No Thank You to Ted!!!!! issue of birth, his mother was born in Delaware, making him a "natural born citizen" as result of his mother's citizenship.
> 
> Geez!, good thing President Obama was actually born in United States, although some seem to think Hawaii isn't, they would really have field day with an out of country birth!!!!


The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


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## knitpresentgifts

stauffacher said:


> He is awesome! Wish we had more like him, and Tray Gowdy!


I'd be happy to have Trey be Attorney General under a Ted Cruz/Scott Walker administration.


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## GWPlver

God no! He is a nut job! We have had enough of him in Texas. And he would be a dictator!


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## Louette

CKnits said:


> I'm glad he pitched his stetson into the process!!!
> 
> PS - from what I've read several times, (both lib and conservative opinions), the difference from BHO "birther" flaps was not the question of where he was born to a US cit Mom, but that his info was a ? fraud. (Just saying...)


AMEN!


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## memily

Whattttt?


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## cindye6556

To me is still too early in the cycle to make a concrete decision as to who I will vote for. I do know I won't be voting for Jeb. Lived in FL during his regime, and that was enough....There are probably some great folks out there that could and should run, but won't because they aren't "career politicians". IMHO it would be wonderful to have some "fresh blood" running the country. Not only that if you know anything about how the government really works, the president isn't really in charge it's congress, and that's what needs a good house cleaning, no pun intended.....


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## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> To me is still too early in the cycle to make a concrete decision as to who I will vote for. I do know I won't be voting for Jeb. Lived in FL during his regime, and that was enough....There are probably some great folks out there that could and should run, but won't because they aren't "career politicians". IMHO it would be wonderful to have some "fresh blood" running the country. Not only that if you know anything about how the government really works, the president isn't really in charge it's congress, and that's what needs a good house cleaning, no pun intended.....


I agree. I doubt I'd vote for Jeb either. I already disagree with too many of his policies and actions.

I'm thrilled Cruz has entered the race. I hope Scott Walker will as well. I have other favorites, so am excited to watch and support the process.

However, I feel the courts have the most power, Supreme, Fed, State, Local, so it is important to vote not just for President, but in all elections I'm allowed.


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## sockyarn

Who's Ted Cruz? I am in time I will more then fined out more then I want to know.


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## cathy47

Well then if he is not an American Citizen how the heck was he a Senator in the US?


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## ute4kp

knitpresentgifts said:


> Doesn't matter, he is an American citizen.


I don't believe him or his leering face. Or his maniac ways.


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## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. I doubt I'd vote for Jeb either. I already disagree with too many of his policies and actions.
> 
> I'm thrilled Cruz has entered the race. I hope Scott Walker will as well. I have other favorites, so am excited to watch and support the process.
> 
> However, I feel the courts have the most power, Supreme, Fed, State, Local, so it is important to vote not just for President, but in all elections I'm allowed.


Lets just try to rid ourselves of the 'Carl Rove & Company' type. They stink up the place like dead fish on a hot Summer day. It won't be easy, there are many and they are anchored tightly.


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## peacefulknitter

knitpresentgifts said:


> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


Review Snopes.com.....site is non-political, declare it false giving all the facts, which are too many to copy into reply.


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## CKnits

Re-posting Cindye's from above

QUOTE's link made to work:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/can-canadian-born-ted-cruz-run-for-president-yes/ar-BBiBLfr?ocid=ansvox11#fullstory?ocid=ansvox11


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## cindye6556

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. I doubt I'd vote for Jeb either. I already disagree with too many of his policies and actions.
> 
> I'm thrilled Cruz has entered the race. I hope Scott Walker will as well. I have other favorites, so am excited to watch and support the process.
> 
> However, I feel the courts have the most power, Supreme, Fed, State, Local, so it is important to vote not just for President, but in all elections I'm allowed.


When we lived in FL our next door neighbor was a state house member, and asked our son to go to Tallahassee as his "page" for a week. My DH and I went as well since our son was only 13 at the time. After that experience I've always said that if you really want to see your government in action (or not) you should visit your state legislator/house for a couple of days while they are in session. What an eye opener!


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## Bea 465

GWPlver said:


> God no! He is a nut job! We have had enough of him in Texas. And he would be a dictator!


What little I've read about him so far makes me agree with you.


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## knitpresentgifts

peacefulknitter said:


> Review Snopes.com.....site is non-political, declare it false giving all the facts, which are too many to copy into reply.


Snopes is decidely political - Liberal opinions and owner. Doesn't post facts always and is worthless IMO.

I don't need to hear the story, I already know the facts.

I'm not interested in arguing Obama's citizenship regardless.

I started this thread to express my appreciation that Cruz announced his intentions today.


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## CarolfromTX

YAY! He articulates strong, truly conservative ideas and ideals. No wishy-washy statements from him! Go, Ted!


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## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Snoopes is definitely political - Liberal all the way. Doesn't post facts always and is worthless IMO.
> 
> I started the thread to express my appreciation that Cruz announced his intentions today.


And Thank You for doing that. We haven't heard a speech of that magnitude for alongggggggg time


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## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Snoopes is definitely political - Liberal all the way. Doesn't post facts always and is worthless IMO.
> 
> I started the thread to express my appreciation that Cruz announced his intentions today.


And Thank You for doing that. We haven't heard a speech of that magnitude for alongggggggg time


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## CKnits

Going back to all things yarn.


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## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> When we lived in FL our next door neighbor was a state house member, and asked our son to go to Tallahassee as his "page" for a week. My DH and I went as well since our son was only 13 at the time. After that experience I've always said that if you really want to see your government in action (or not) you should visit your state legislator/house for a couple of days while they are in session. What an eye opener!


Terrific experience for your family. I've worked for both lawyers and lobbyists and am regularly involved in civics both in my career and interests. I was active in the last presidential campaign in attendance and $ and look forward to the race for 2016.


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## knitpresentgifts

CarolfromTX said:


> YAY! He articulates strong, truly conservative ideas and ideals. No wishy-washy statements from him! Go, Ted!


 :thumbup: He grabbed the bull by the horns, didn't he?


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## CarolfromTX

ute4kp said:


> I don't believe him or his leering face. Or his maniac ways.


There you go again with the personal attacks. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


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## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> And Thank You for doing that. We haven't heard a speech of that magnitude for alongggggggg time


I know, well don't forget Bibi not too long ago.

But, :thumbup: to a true American!

Exciting times ahead ... Victory for Conservatives!


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## cindye6556

knitpresentgifts said:


> Terrific experience for your family. I've worked for both lawyers and lobbyists and regularly involved in civics both in my career and interests. I was active in the last presidential campaign in attendance and $ and look forward to the race for 2016.


It is one that we'll always remember, and swear that it beat "book learnin" any day!

We have a TV station here that posts a question of the day, and last week one of them was should voting be mandatory (this was after president said it should be). I disagree, and my reason for this is because we already have enough voters that haven't fully educated themselves on either the candidate or the issue, and just follow the herd. But you'd be surprised at the number of people that feel mandatory voting should be put into law. I try to be informed, do my research, and then make up my mind. During the election cycle our dinner table is a very interesting place to be.


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## Swiss Miss KT

Agree with what was said about Snopes! Also, agree with getting back to knitting. Must agree to disagree. We all have our opinions. However, that said Ted Cruz is very smart and even his left leaning professor Allen Durshawitz (sp) expressed that. Happy knitting.


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## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> It is one that we'll always remember, and swear that it beat "book learnin" any day!
> 
> We have a TV station here that posts a question of the day, and last week one of them was should voting be mandatory (this was after president said it should be). I disagree, and my reason for this is because we already have enough voters that haven't fully educated themselves on either the candidate or the issue, and just follow the herd. But you'd be surprised at the number of people that feel mandatory voting should be put into law. I try to be informed, do my research, and then make up my mind. During the election cycle our dinner table is a very interesting place to be.


In agreement again! I, too, believe every young adult needs to be schooled and have personal experience in not only understanding and watching our elected officials at work but to take part in at least a small way to learn how the process and government (all levels) function. But I also feel every American citizen should leave the USA and live in another country for at least one year to understand and appreciate the extraordinary Nation from where they claim citizenship.

I do not believe voting should be mandated; against the Constitution IMO and a contradiction of liberty and the guaranteed freedoms on which our country was founded.

If one doesn't participate in the knowledge of the elections process and the candidates, then I don't want those low-information, uninformed people voting. We have already seen some on this thread express they don't know much about Ted Cruz.

I cannot fathom how that is possible if you are an American and live an observant life and are an American grateful for your citizenship and your country. You should at least have a mild interest and get to know who is in control, why, and their beliefs.


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## diamondbelle

Ted Cruz makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.


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## GWPlver

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## crispie

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


He is eligible. If every child born out of the US from parents who were working outside of the US were not eligible, I would be one of those children. My parents were in the military and stationed out of the country; Ted Cruz's parents were in Canada because the father was working in the oil industry.


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## ute4kp

CarolfromTX said:


> There you go again with the personal attacks. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


You're judging me.
I have my opinion. You have yours.


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## Katsch

CarolfromTX said:


> There you go again with the personal attacks. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


 :thumbup:


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## Katsch

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.


Haha, sorry that is funny.


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## Nancy S.

He has a duel citizenship. He gave up his Canadian citizenship about 6 months age & now he is an American citizen only.


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## lovethelake

GWPlver said:


> God no! He is a nut job! We have had enough of him in Texas. And he would be a dictator!


Like Obama? Sorry, O thinks he is 'the chosen one' aka an emperor or Socialist


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## cathy47

Well I just heard on radio about this person and when I heard on thing that turned me off... "Tea Party"


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## Bea 465

Typical politician spouting off about what he or she (alone?) will do for our country -- it's all a load of bull. As if Congress won't have an opinion.


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## mmorris

I've never heard of him.


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## soloweygirl

love2spin said:


> He is an American citizen. Hey if you don't think he is an American than 'anchor babies' aren't either.


Exactly. Cruz's mother is an American citizen, which makes him one no matter where he was born.


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## margoc

The man is a fool and he sure as hell won't be getting my vote -- if he makes it that far


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## galinipper

Ted cruz went to Harvard, Princeton and Harvard Law School. His former law professor,Alan Dershowitz, praised Ted Cruz ( Rafael Edward Cruz) as the smartest student at Harvard.

Sounds like he showed up for class......


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## diamondbelle

Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, but has no plan to finance the government, Social Security, Medicare, roads, or everything else our taxes pay for. People who want to decrease federal oversight and control are just passing the buck to the states. That means the richer states get more benefits, and the poorer states get less. The local taxes will increase - sales taxes, property taxes. That means the middle class will be responsible for even more of the tax burden than they are now.

That is not in the best interest of our country.

He wants to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act - but what happens to the millions of citizens who now have health care under this plan, who couldn't get it before? Does he care about them - NO! But he DOES care about what the rest of the Tea Party cares about - Corporate America and the lobbyists who own the politicians.

That is also not in the best interest of this country.

The rich get richer and the poor and middle class have to pay for it.


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## nmgram

galinipper said:


> Ted cruz went to Harvard, Princeton and Harvard Law School. His former law professor,Alan Dershowitz, praised Ted Cruz ( Rafael Edward Cruz) as the smartest student at Harvard.
> 
> Sounds like he showed up for class......


 :thumbup:


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## brucew

margoc said:


> The man is a fool and he sure as hell won't be getting my vote -- if he makes it that far


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## brucew

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, but has no plan to finance the government, Social Security, Medicare, roads, or everything else our taxes pay for. People who want to decrease federal oversight and control are just passing the buck to the states. That means the richer states get more benefits, and the poorer states get less. The local taxes will increase - sales taxes, property taxes. That means the middle class will be responsible for even more of the tax burden than they are now.
> 
> That is not in the best interest of our country.
> 
> He wants to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act - but what happens to the millions of citizens who now have health care under this plan, who couldn't get it before? Does he care about them - NO! But he DOES care about what the rest of the Tea Party cares about - Corporate America and the lobbyists who own the politicians.
> 
> That is also not in the best interest of this country.
> 
> The rich get richer and the poor and middle class have to pay for it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## galinipper

brucew said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I'm sure he's OK with your assessment.


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## sumpleby

love2spin said:


> He is an American citizen. Hey if you don't think he is an American than 'anchor babies' aren't either.


Of course he's an American citizen, as his mother was American so it doesn't matter where he was born. The question was sarcastic. It's funny. Obama was born in Hawaii (a state), and his mother was American--but the right tried to say that he wasn't American. Now they'll be all defensive about Cruz. lol


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## sumpleby

knitpresentgifts said:


> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


This is birther nonsense without a particle of truth in it.


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## sumpleby

Ted Cruz is just plain smarmy. And smug with it. Fortunately for the Republicans he is a third tier candidate so they'll hopefully have a better choice down the pike. I say hopefully because the many they have in the wings a mostly just as bad as Cruz.


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## lovethelake

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.


Lunchbox Joe makes Quayle Einstein.


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## lovethelake

galinipper said:


> Ted cruz went to Harvard, Princeton and Harvard Law School. His former law professor,Alan Dershowitz, praised Ted Cruz ( Rafael Edward Cruz) as the smartest student at Harvard.
> 
> Sounds like he showed up for class......


At least his professors remember him, unlike <0 where none of his teachers sing his praise.


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## Designer1234

crispie said:


> He is eligible. If every child born out of the US from parents who were working outside of the US were not eligible, I would be one of those children. My parents were in the military and stationed out of the country; Ted Cruz's parents were in Canada because the father was working in the oil industry.


He gave up his Canadian citizenship for which I am truly thankful. You are welcome to him.


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## mojave

Ted Cruz's chances of becoming POTUS are reduced if he is unable to garner votes from the Latino and Asian segments of the American populace. I have a former student whose ancestors emigrated from Spain to California before 1800. He is conservative Catholic, very family-oriented and owns several small businesses. His values are very much in line with the stated Republican views and was a card carrying member of the Republican party for years. However, he says he will never vote Republican again because he is tired of angry white people screaming at him to go back to Mexico.


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## cookiequeen

I, too, am excited that Cruz is in the race. In fact, I hope he becomes the repub candidate. Somebody as nutty as Ted will be that much easier for the Democrats to beat--no matter who the Democratic candidate is.


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## Cheeky Blighter

Big head Ted


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## Country Bumpkins

cathy47 said:


> Well then if he is not an American Citizen how the heck was he a Senator in the US?


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins

cindye6556 said:


> It is one that we'll always remember, and swear that it beat "book learnin" any day!
> 
> We have a TV station here that posts a question of the day, and last week one of them was should voting be mandatory (this was after president said it should be). I disagree, and my reason for this is because we already have enough voters that haven't fully educated themselves on either the candidate or the issue, and just follow the herd. But you'd be surprised at the number of people that feel mandatory voting should be put into law. I try to be informed, do my research, and then make up my mind. During the election cycle our dinner table is a very interesting place to be.


I so agree with you.


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## Cheeky Blighter

cookiequeen said:


> I, too, am excited that Cruz is in the race. In fact, I hope he becomes the repub candidate. Somebody as nutty as Ted will be that much easier for the Democrats to beat--no matter who the Democratic candidate is.


They are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this guy. He and his big mouth make him his own worst enemy.


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## cindye6556

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They are really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this guy. He and his big mouth make him his own worst enemy.


And show me a candidate for any office that at one point in time hasn't? IMHO so far all the candidates or presumed candidates regardless of party are scraping the bottom of the barrel. You can't tell me this is the best this country has to offer.


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## run4fittness

???????????????????????????????


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## susanmos2000

cookiequeen said:


> I, too, am excited that Cruz is in the race. In fact, I hope he becomes the repub candidate. Somebody as nutty as Ted will be that much easier for the Democrats to beat--no matter who the Democratic candidate is.


I too am pleased that he's running. I don't believe he has a chance in h-ll of becoming President, but the election season is going to be VERY entertaining.


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## SQM

cookiequeen said:


> I, too, am excited that Cruz is in the race. In fact, I hope he becomes the repub candidate. Somebody as nutty as Ted will be that much easier for the Democrats to beat--no matter who the Democratic candidate is.


Cookie is my soul sister.

Praise god that he plans to run. Reading Green Eggs and Ham without a bathroom break (Depends?) is Cruz's greatest accomplishment. I also loved Designer's good riddance. Canada is now shipping its garbage to us.

.


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## knitpresentgifts

Katsch said:


> :thumbup:


Hi Katsch - good to see you again!


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## knitpresentgifts

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, but has no plan to finance the government, Social Security, Medicare, roads, or everything else our taxes pay for. People who want to decrease federal oversight and control are just passing the buck to the states. That means the richer states get more benefits, and the poorer states get less. The local taxes will increase - sales taxes, property taxes. That means the middle class will be responsible for even more of the tax burden than they are now.
> 
> That is not in the best interest of our country.
> 
> He wants to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act - but what happens to the millions of citizens who now have health care under this plan, who couldn't get it before? Does he care about them - NO! But he DOES care about what the rest of the Tea Party cares about - Corporate America and the lobbyists who own the politicians.
> 
> That is also not in the best interest of this country.
> 
> The rich get richer and the poor and middle class have to pay for it.


Because Cruz wants to abolish the IRS does not mean tax revenue will not flow to the Fed Govt. I've never heard Ted say he'll cut SS, Medicare, etc., as you claim either. I have heard him speak of reforms to build up those programs and get ahold of the unruly spending and balance the Fed budget by law each year and make sure our military members are properly funded to protect themselves while they protect our Nation. Cruz is for growth, in all areas except debt and deficits to heal out nation from the burden it has been under the past six years.

THOSE ideals are what is in the BEST interest of American citizens.

To your point of Obamacare - what happens to the millions who have seen their premiums skyrocket just to keep or have worse coverage than before its passing, and to all those who received subsidies if the SCOTUS rules that the law is as written? All those millions loose their subsidies and once again have no coverage and could possibly owe back $ and perhaps penalties. Because the insurance is no longer available or affordable, millions more will be without than ever before. The Dems never thought of those people before or since when they wrote and passed the bill (without a single vote by a Republican) nor did they tell the American people the truth of Obamacare which has proven to be a complete disaster.

The Tea Party is the very definition of the party against corps and lobbyists and those taking away the liberties granted to US citizens in The Constitution. Not as you state.

At this time, after six + years under Obama, America has the lowest participation in the workforce since the Great Depression, 50% of citizens are receiving food stamps and other entitlements, we have the highest % of the poor ever, a crippling debt of 18 trillion, pathetic GDP increases, unfair trade agreements and the destruction of education and the middle class.

Those stats are Obama's and certainly no one would agree are in the best interest of our country or its citizens.


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## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> Of course he's an American citizen, as his mother was American so it doesn't matter where he was born. The question was sarcastic. It's funny. Obama was born in Hawaii (a state), and his mother was American--but the right tried to say that he wasn't American. Now they'll be all defensive about Cruz. lol


The Right claimed he wasn't an American citizen when he ran/became POTUS. Again, not because of where he was born, but the FACT he gave up his citizenship and never reinstated same. Birthers were wrong, those who know the facts are not. Obama spent at least a million to cover his tracks, hide the records and fudge the system, but the facts remain and are widely known for those who seek and listen for the truth. Nothing to defend, Cruz is and has always been a natural born American citizen = required to hold the office of President.

At the time of his first election Obama did not meet the requirement.


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## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> This is birther nonsense without a particle of truth in it.


You obviously don't know the truth and your statements are nonsense. I'm not arguing further about Obama. I couldn't care less about him.

I *can* imagine Ted Cruz as President of the United States!


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## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> Ted Cruz's chances of becoming POTUS are reduced if he is unable to garner votes from the Latino and Asian segments of the American populace.


This is true of any candidate, so why bother stating it?


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## lovethelake

Designer1234 said:


> He gave up his Canadian citizenship for which I am truly thankful. You are welcome to him.


And I am thankful that you didn't


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## lovethelake

knitpresentgifts said:


> This is true of any candidate, so why bother stating it?


Question. If Hillary runs does the 'body bag count' continue where it left off or do we start anew?

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_clinton_body_count.htm


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## MarilynKnits

cindye6556 said:


> And show me a candidate for any office that at one point in time hasn't? IMHO so far all the candidates or presumed candidates regardless of party are scraping the bottom of the barrel. You can't tell me this is the best this country has to offer.


Nowadays the best are too smart to get caught in the mud slinging that is the modern political campaign. The extremists on each side use social media to besmirch the candidate of the side they oppose. Since nobody can succeed in a political career that brings them in a position to be a candidate for president without leaving some sort of embarrassments in their path, some of the "mud" sticks.

Then you have some very rich people who work to finance a campaign for whichever candidate will be their most obsequious lackey. And you have enough of an audience among us who have no clue as to how to recognize propaganda for what it is and who are credulous enough to believe what the manipulators want them to believe. After all, look at the number of people who believe all the baloney spewed on Fox News!

With all the modern means of disseminating words, news, opinions, blather, the truth gets lost in the piles and we can't really know what kinds of people the candidates are. Unless you live in the state the candidate comes from and have seen first hand what they really are, like the people of NJ know Christie or the people of FL know Bush or the people of WI know Walker, you have to go by your gut feelings. Therefore lie ulcers and the Tums people turn a profit in election years.

Maybe we should go on line and read editorials about each of the candidates in their local newspapers. Try a few in the Star Ledger (nj.com) to get a taste of Christie, for example or the Miami Herald (miamiherald.com) to get local opinion about Bush - and so on.


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## karverr

GWPlver said:


> God no! He is a nut job! We have had enough of him in Texas. And he would be a dictator!


what do you think we have now


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## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> You obviously don't know the truth and your statements are nonsense. I'm not arguing further about Obama. I couldn't care less about him.
> 
> I *can* imagine Ted Cruz as President of the United States!


I can't--for the simple reason that he's making a lot of wild promises that he can't possibly keep. Repeal the ACA? Abolish the IRS? C'mon!


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## Designer1234

lovethelake said:


> And I am thankful that you didn't


didn't what?


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## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


You are wrong 99% of the time KPG and this is just one more error on your part.

http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/the-indonesian-citizenship-myth.html


----------



## diamondbelle

Here's what FactCheck.org has to say about Ted Cruz's speeches.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/factchecking-ted-cruz/

FactCheck.org is a non-partisan organization that monitors and fact-checks all politicians.


----------



## Designer1234

SQM said:


> Cookie is my soul sister.
> 
> Praise god that he plans to run. Reading Green Eggs and Ham without a bathroom break (Depends?) is Cruz's greatest accomplishment. I also loved Designer's good riddance. Canada is now shipping its garbage to us.
> 
> .


Any time! Happy to help


----------



## soloweygirl

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, but has no plan to finance the government, Social Security, Medicare, roads, or everything else our taxes pay for. People who want to decrease federal oversight and control are just passing the buck to the states. That means the richer states get more benefits, and the poorer states get less. The local taxes will increase - sales taxes, property taxes. That means the middle class will be responsible for even more of the tax burden than they are now.
> 
> That is not in the best interest of our country.
> 
> He wants to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act - but what happens to the millions of citizens who now have health care under this plan, who couldn't get it before? Does he care about them - NO! But he DOES care about what the rest of the Tea Party cares about - Corporate America and the lobbyists who own the politicians.
> 
> That is also not in the best interest of this country.
> 
> The rich get richer and the poor and middle class have to pay for it.


Just like they are now under the Obama Administration.


----------



## Designer1234

sumpleby said:


> Of course he's an American citizen, as his mother was American so it doesn't matter where he was born. The question was sarcastic. It's funny. Obama was born in Hawaii (a state), and his mother was American--but the right tried to say that he wasn't American. Now they'll be all defensive about Cruz. lol


They have already decided not to attack Obama anymore (or at least some say so). This was from someone who has never ever admitted Obama did any thing right.

They back Cruz l00% - sounds as if they might be putting their money on the wrong horse? I hope so.


----------



## soloweygirl

sumpleby said:


> Ted Cruz is just plain smarmy. And smug with it. Fortunately for the Republicans he is a third tier candidate so they'll hopefully have a better choice down the pike. I say hopefully because the many they have in the wings a mostly just as bad as Cruz.


Who are the Democrats offering? Hillary? Talk about being smug and above everyone else. Elizabeth Warren - another Obama wannabe. Anyone else or is the field that sparse?


----------



## Designer1234

lovethelake said:


> At least his professors remember him, unlike <0 where none of his teachers sing his praise.


But the question is: what do his Professors remember his for? just a thought.


----------



## galinipper

diamondbelle said:


> Here's what FactCheck.org has to say about Ted Cruz's speeches.
> 
> http://www.factcheck.org/2015/03/factchecking-ted-cruz/
> 
> FactCheck.org is a non-partisan organization that monitors and fact-checks all politicians.


Fact check.org is owned by Annenberg of Chicago. Obama sat on the board of Anneberg dispersing up to 60 million dollars a year. Ayers also sat on that board. Non-Partisan isn't even in there vocabulary and there tentacals run deep.
They are not what you claim.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know, well don't forget Bibi not too long ago.
> 
> But, :thumbup: to a true American!
> 
> Exciting times ahead ... Victory for Conservatives!


I wouldn't count on that too much yet. One thing about republicans is how they treat the middle class, the poor and minorities. With the income inequality in this country now, the desire by republicans to cut social security and medicare, their desire to cut taxes for the rich, which only means someone has to pick up the slack, and if you have really looked at the new republican budget you will realize who they care about and who they don't care about. They plan on getting rid of the American Opportunity tax credit which helps pay college expenses, get rid of mandatory pell grants, cut child care and head start programs, Cut 900,000 people from receiving energy assistance, so you see who they have targeted in this budget. All this and then increase tax cuts for those at the top and then it is suppose to trickle down, which of course it never does. The Bush years proved that. 
The thing for republicans to remember is there are way more of us than there are of them, so counting on a win in the presidential race for 2016 is counting your chickens before the eggs are hatched. 
Remember that republicans have hated social security since day one and will get rid of it if they ever gain complete control. People like Newt Gingerich and Dick Army and Bob Dole said it could be "phased out over time," and that it "would wither on the vine." That hasn't happened, but they will continue to go after it. When they say things like "we want to save social security," pay close attention to how they plan to do that. The house republicans have already changed the rules concerning disability social security. It is slated to run out of money by 2016, and the last 11 times that has happened, money from the retirement account has been reallocated to the disability account. With the new rule, that can no longer happen so the people on disability will receive a 20% cut in their benefits in 2016 if nothing is done. Now of course the republicans plan to use this as blackmail against the president in order to get something they want, and then they would allow the money to be reallocated. But if I were the republicans, I would be really careful about threats like that, as the president and the democrats have stood strong and not allowed them to get away with it. The people are too smart to fall for that old blame game that they try to play. When the government shut down, it was the republicans who took the most blame so I don't see us falling for that crap this time either. 
Remember the republicans said now that they had control of congress things would get done. Well I am still waiting, but love, love, love to see the democrats use the filibuster. That is awesome.


----------



## galinipper

Designer1234 said:


> But the question is: what do his Professors remember his for? just a thought.


Possibly because he was a gifted student and he stood out. You could bing or google who his professors were and what they have to say about him, or not.


----------



## NJG

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, but has no plan to finance the government, Social Security, Medicare, roads, or everything else our taxes pay for. People who want to decrease federal oversight and control are just passing the buck to the states. That means the richer states get more benefits, and the poorer states get less. The local taxes will increase - sales taxes, property taxes. That means the middle class will be responsible for even more of the tax burden than they are now.
> 
> That is not in the best interest of our country.
> 
> He wants to get rid of the Affordable Health Care Act - but what happens to the millions of citizens who now have health care under this plan, who couldn't get it before? Does he care about them - NO! But he DOES care about what the rest of the Tea Party cares about - Corporate America and the lobbyists who own the politicians.
> 
> That is also not in the best interest of this country.
> 
> The rich get richer and the poor and middle class have to pay for it.


You got that right, and all republicans talk about is getting rid of regulations. Well we know what that did to us under the Bush years, don't you. If big corporations are not regulated for instance when it comes to the environment, can you just imagine what they will be dumping in our rivers. I don't want to go back to that.


----------



## NJG

sumpleby said:


> Ted Cruz is just plain smarmy. And smug with it. Fortunately for the Republicans he is a third tier candidate so they'll hopefully have a better choice down the pike. I say hopefully because the many they have in the wings a mostly just as bad as Cruz.


Yes, I think we are in for another 3 ring circus , just like the last group of republican candidates. Then they ended up with Romney who was so out of touch with real people, he kept sticking his foot in his mouth. Now he has come out and said something about the middle class, but where was that in 2012?


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> At least his professors remember him, unlike <0 where none of his teachers sing his praise.


Just like KPG, you are wrong again.

http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends/


----------



## NJG

susanmos2000 said:


> I too am pleased that he's running. I don't believe he has a chance in h-ll of becoming President, but the election season is going to be VERY entertaining.


The comedians on the late night shows will have a great time.


----------



## lovethelake

NJG said:


> Just like KPG, you are wrong again.
> 
> http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends/


Hilarious. That site is so far left that they make algore look like an ultra conservative. Their entire goal is to debunk the 'birthers'.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> Hilarious. That site is so far left that they make algore look like an ultra conservative. Their entire goal is to debunk the 'birthers'.


Yes that was their goal and I think they accomplished their goal. You don't believe it--and I don't care if you believe it or not.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> You are wrong 99% of the time KPG and this is just one more error on your part.


Thank you for your wonderful post NJG. You are 199% correct, of course. I wish I could join you and all the core Liberal posters on the L.O.L.L. (thread found here: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-321672-1.html) where I, too, could join all the intellectuals singing the praises and expressing their complete adoration of the Tea Party, the Republican Party, Conservative candidates contemplating a run for the Presidency, Christians, other KP users and whatever is your topic djour. :-D

However, I simply can only be rude, crass and an ill-bred idiot and remain uneducated and an ill-informed dunce doing my best to go only where Im not welcome.

I know you can understand where I'm coming from and please remember how much I admire you and your ability to serve as our omniscient narrator on this thread which I angrily created. I dont know how you all see the forest through the trees, but I remain in awe of your abilities, skills and humble attitudes, and I hope you know how much I appreciate you and your Liberal friends' input and all you do.

In advance; forgive me for not responding to your posts, I simply am unable to respond to one greater than I.

Again, my most gracious thanks for your addition to this thread.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Who are the Democrats offering? Hillary? Talk about being smug and above everyone else. Elizabeth Warren - another Obama wannabe. Anyone else or is the field that sparse?


Good question. I hear lots of negatives and attacks against the deep bench of Repubs who seem to indicate they'll throw their hat into the ring, but I've only heard Hillary to be running on the Dems' side.

Interesting - putting all your rotten eggs in one basket ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> Fact check.org is owned by Annenberg of Chicago. Obama sat on the board of Anneberg dispersing up to 60 million dollars a year. Ayers also sat on that board. Non-Partisan isn't even in there vocabulary and there tentacals run deep.
> They are not what you claim.


 :thumbup: Thanks for the info, Gali. I didn't know all this, some, but not all.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for your wonderful post NJG. You are 199% correct, of course. I wish I could join you and all the core Liberal posters on the L.O.L.L. (thread found here: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-321672-1.html) where I, too, wish I could join in with all the intellectuals singing the praises and expressing their complete adoration of the Tea Party, the Republican Party, Conservative candidates contemplating a run for the Presidency and whatever is your right wing topic djour. :-D
> 
> However, I simply can only be rude, crass and an ill-bred idiot and remain uneducated and an ill-informed Conservative doing my best to go only where Im not welcome. I know you can understand where I coming from, and please remember how much I admire you and your ability to serve as our omniscient narrator on this thread which I humbly created. I dont know how you all see the forest through the trees, but I remain in awe of your abilities, skills and humble attitudes, and I hope you know how much I appreciate you and your Liberal friends input and all you do.
> 
> In advance; forgive for not responding to your posts, I simply am unable to respond to one greater than I.
> 
> Again, my most gracious thanks for your addition to this thread.


Yes, I understand. When the truth hits you in the face your only course of action is sarcasm. I understand perfectly.


----------



## jmf6406

Sure hope whoever becomes our next President is someone who has some diplomacy and tact (which I think leaves Sen. Cruz off the list) It doesn't take a genius to figure out how touchy some of the world leaders are. Shooting off your mouth as President leads to people shooting and bombing each other.


----------



## NJG

jmf6406 said:


> Sure hope whoever becomes our next President is someone who has some diplomacy and tact (which I think leaves Sen. Cruz off the list) It doesn't take a genius to figure out how touchy some of the world leaders are. Shooting off your mouth as President leads to people shooting and bombing each other.


I agree. It wasn't long ago that the republicans were all loving on Putin. Giuliani said "he made a decision in the morning and acted on it that afternoon, now that is a leader." 
Really? Do we want someone who gives no more thought to starting a war than that? I don't think so. I think Cruz would be like that. Don't think, open mouth, insert foot.


----------



## sumpleby

jmf6406 said:


> Sure hope whoever becomes our next President is someone who has some diplomacy and tact (which I think leaves Sen. Cruz off the list) It doesn't take a genius to figure out how touchy some of the world leaders are. Shooting off your mouth as President leads to people shooting and bombing each other.


Yes, leaves out Cruz. Or worse--Chris Christie. LOL Either of them as President would be a nightmare diplomatically.


----------



## MarilynKnits

sumpleby said:


> Yes, leaves out Cruz. Or worse--Chris Christie. LOL Either of them as President would be a nightmare diplomatically.


Do you think Christie would tell Putin to sit down and shut up? Or is that just for his constituents?


----------



## lovethelake

NJG said:


> Yes that was their goal and I think they accomplished their goal. You don't believe it--and I don't care if you believe it or not.


Snarky, but expected. Never said I was a birther. All I am saying is that this site has an agenda and a bias that can not be trusted as a reliable source of information.


----------



## lovethelake

jmf6406 said:


> Sure hope whoever becomes our next President is someone who has some diplomacy and tact (which I think leaves Sen. Cruz off the list) It doesn't take a genius to figure out how touchy some of the world leaders are. Shooting off your mouth as President leads to people shooting and bombing each other.


And so did letting Syria cross the infamous 'line in the sand'. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut too


----------



## galinipper

I believe we are already at war.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> Snarky, but expected. Never said I was a birther. All I am saying is that this site has an agenda and a bias that can not be trusted as a reliable source of information.


I never said you were a birther. So you think the site has an agenda, OK, then don't trust it. It doesn't matter one way or the other.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> And so did letting Syria cross the infamous 'line in the sand'. Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut too


He has not put boots on the ground in Syria or Iran and I think that is awesome. If we had a republican president, that would not be the case.


----------



## mojave

Check your sources. Addicting Info is running a story about Ted Cruz signing up for an ACA medical insurance plan due to losing his wife's job-provided health care coverage. After Cruz spent so many months tying up Congress with his opposition to the ACA instead of trying to resolve the problems of this country, now he signs up for ACA?? Methinks the 2016 elections are going to hit a new level of OMG.


----------



## jmf6406

galinipper said:


> I believe we are already at war.


Sadly, you are right Sort of off the subject, but I think it is terrible the way our veterans are treated. They go off to war to serve and protect us, but should they be injured (either physically or mentally) and no good as soldiers anymore, we are done with them and they are treated as disposable liabilities. Sort of like a broken toy is thrown in the trash. Time after time Congress has failed to pass a variety of bills that would provide our vets with needed assistance. Some of those voting Nay are former military, too! And no, I am not a vet and no one in my family is a vet--no personal axe to grind.


----------



## cookiequeen

galinipper said:


> Fact check.org is owned by Annenberg of Chicago. Obama sat on the board of Anneberg dispersing up to 60 million dollars a year. Ayers also sat on that board. Non-Partisan isn't even in there vocabulary and there tentacals run deep.
> They are not what you claim.


We were waiting for this one! I'm surprised it isn't owned and operated by George Soros, that evil-doer!


----------



## cookiequeen

lovethelake said:


> Snarky, but expected. Never said I was a birther. All I am saying is that this site has an agenda and a bias that can not be trusted as a reliable source of information.


And she knows snark very well, does this one!


----------



## cookiequeen

mojave said:


> Check your sources. Addicting Info is running a story about Ted Cruz signing up for an ACA medical insurance plan due to losing his wife's job-provided health care coverage. After Cruz spent so many months tying up Congress with his opposition to the ACA instead of trying to resolve the problems of this country, now he signs up for ACA?? Methinks the 2016 elections are going to hit a new level of OMG.


Yup. He did an interview with CNN, but he doesn't see anything ironic about it and will follow the letter of the law, even if he disagrees with it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cookiequeen said:


> Yup. He did an interview with CNN, but he doesn't see anything ironic about it and will follow the letter of the law, even if he disagrees with it.


How ridiculous - you expect him to break the law? That's what all good, law-abiding Americans citizens should do - follow the letter of the law even though you may not be in agreement.

Then, again, I forgot who I'm replying to - a Liberal, who only follows what the DNC party says, and has no regard for the laws of the land nor The Constitution even though our country has always been ruled by the law making us unique.

That's why the Dem party is able to turn a blind eye to the likes of Al Sharpton who owes 4 million in unpaid taxes, probably because he disagrees with the IRS. Then to, you'll praise Obama, who is infamous of breaking the laws he doesn't agree with or hasn't dictated so, therefore, refused to follow. What a legacy!


----------



## sumpleby

\No one expects him to break the law. But it's hypocritical to state on Monday that you want to dismantle the ACA, then reveal on Tuesday that you're signing up for it.

If he's that against it, he should just get insurance outside of it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> \No one expects him to break the law. But it's hypocritical to state on Monday that you want to dismantle the ACA, then reveal on Tuesday that you're signing up for it.
> 
> If he's that against it, he should just get insurance outside of it.


He isn't a hypocrite - he's a law abiding American Citizen. How do you know he didn't try to secure private insurance? How do you know he didn't miss the deadline and open enrollment dates after his families' policy was lost due to his wife not longer being able to provide through her employer? Are you his financial advisor and know he can afford private insurance? I'm not sure, but did Texas create a state exchange? Doubt Cruz is eligible for a subsidy on his family's salaries for a family of four if the state did. Perhaps the family is waiting to enroll until such a time Ted can secure insurance for his family through the Congress' plan. Perhaps Ted intentionally wants to be on ObamaCare because he knows what is best for his family. Perhaps the Cruz family wants to know and understand how Obamacare actually works and was willing to enroll until that choose another plan.

How do you know he is only going to buy his coverage for a short term until he qualifies for an upcoming open-enrollment date and then terminate?

Point is - you don't. You have no problem saying he is a hypocrite though without knowing any of the facts.


----------



## galinipper

cookiequeen said:


> We were waiting for this one! I'm surprised it isn't owned and operated by George Soros, that evil-doer!


Who is 'We' ?

You could have factchecked FactCheck.org yourself, and let people know that in fact it's a leftist site, but you left it up to someone else so you could get your snark on...or you hoped that the readers on this site would just believe and not question.

I won't be snipping back and forth with you, it will only end up in the shitter and I'm better than that. And that's a fact.


----------



## galinipper

jmf6406 said:


> Sadly, you are right Sort of off the subject, but I think it is terrible the way our veterans are treated. They go off to war to serve and protect us, but should they be injured (either physically or mentally) and no good as soldiers anymore, we are done with them and they are treated as disposable liabilities. Sort of like a broken toy is thrown in the trash. Time after time Congress has failed to pass a variety of bills that would provide our vets with needed assistance. Some of those voting Nay are former military, too! And no, I am not a vet and no one in my family is a vet--no personal axe to grind.


Off subject is good. It would be great to let them just go to civilian Dr. and Hospitals. Stop herding them to the government run facility that are incompetent. I agree


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> How ridiculous - you expect him to break the law? That's what all good, law-abiding Americans citizens should do - follow the letter of the law even though you may not be in agreement.
> 
> Then, again, I forgot who I'm replying to - a Liberal, who only follows what the DNC party says, and has no regard for the laws of the land nor The Constitution even though our country has always been ruled by the law making us unique.
> 
> That's why the Dem party is able to turn a blind eye to the likes of Al Sharpton who owes 4 million in unpaid taxes, probably because he disagrees with the IRS. Then to, you'll praise Obama, who is infamous of breaking the laws he doesn't agree with or hasn't dictated so, therefore, refused to follow. What a legacy!


Excuse me, did I say anyone should not follow the law, particularly our elected officials? You're so primed to jump on my every word to find fault and to stick in some negativity that you just can't help yourself. You think because I am a liberal that I break laws? Quite an accusation, but I guess that's to be expected from people like you. Maybe I should speak to a lawyer.
I watched the interview. He said the sentence more than once. Watch the interview so you can get the full benefit of how it was said and when he said it. I will not follow your lead by writing extraneous crap to try to change the subject.


----------



## cookiequeen

galinipper said:


> Who is 'We' ?
> 
> You could have factchecked FactCheck.org yourself, and let people know that in fact it's a leftist site, but you left it up to someone else so you could get your snark on...or you hoped that the readers on this site would just believe and not question.
> 
> I won't be snipping back and forth with you, it will only end up in the shitter and I'm better than that. And that's a fact.


Couldn't tell you are better than that from what you say and how you say it.
And that's a fact!


----------



## damemary

The spelling is Karl Rove.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cookiequeen said:


> Excuse me, did I say anyone should not follow the law, particularly our elected officials? You're so primed to jump on my every word to find fault and to stick in some negativity that you just can't help yourself. You think because I am a liberal that I break laws? Quite an accusation, but I guess that's to be expected from people like you. Maybe I should speak to a lawyer.
> I watched the interview. He said the sentence more than once. Watch the interview so you can get the full benefit of how it was said and when he said it. I will not follow your lead by writing extraneous crap to try to change the subject.


Hmmm, let's see shall we? You have been following me around for over two years saying nothing of worth but attacks and personal insults.

Then you converge along with your Liberal buddies who did two, count them, two shouts outs to the Liar Liberal KP Gang on LOLL to come on this thread to spew your garbage.

Your first post here was complete snark.

You're second post on this thread was more of the same against Gali.

Then you diss Ted Cruz, a US Senator, for following the law even though he doesn't agree with it in your third post.

So you got exactly what you came here for, the perfect opportunity to change the subject into personal attacks on EVERY SINGLE PERSON you responded to ending with nonsense and putting words into my mouth as was your intention all along.

I never accused you of anything but you just keep on blaming me for all your problems.

Oh, look, your most recent post is another slam to Gali.

Pathetic, CookieQueen, pathetic.

The Libs don't want to speak about my thread topic, (Ted Cruz's accouncement or him specifically), you all just want to insult those you hate.

Count me out, I'll ignore you like the rest of the angry Libs. I hope the good people of KP will join me.


----------



## damemary

.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Hmmm, let's see shall we? You have been following me around for over two years saying nothing of worth but attacks and personal insults.
> 
> Then you converge along with your Liberal buddies who did two, count them, two shouts outs to the Liar Liberal KP Gang to come on this thread to spew your garbage.
> 
> Now, your first post here was complete snark.
> 
> You're second post on this thread was more of the same.
> 
> Then you berate Ted Cruz, a US Senator, for following the law even though he doesn't agree with it in your third post.
> 
> Then, you got exactly what you came here for, the perfect opportunity to change the subject to a personal attack on EVERY SINGLE PERSON you responded to ending with nonsense and putting words into my mouth as was your intention all along.
> 
> Oh, look, another slam to Gali.
> 
> Pathetic, CookieQueen, obvious, evil and pathetic.
> 
> The Libs don't want to speak about my thread topic, Ted Cruz's accouncement or him specifically, you all just want to insult those you hate.
> 
> Count me out, I'll ignore you like the rest of the angry Libs. I hope the good people of KP will join me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> Who is 'We' ?
> 
> You could have factchecked FactCheck.org yourself, and let people know that in fact it's a leftist site, but you left it up to someone else so you could get your snark on...or you hoped that the readers on this site would just believe and not question.
> 
> I won't be snipping back and forth with you, it will only end up in the shitter and I'm better than that. And that's a fact.


 :thumbup: Bravo Gali. Same nonsense.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> Off subject is good. It would be great to let them just go to civilian Dr. and Hospitals. Stop herding them to the government run facility that are incompetent. I agree


I agree as well. The military and veteran funding is thread-bare, sequester has assisted in less and less care and funding all because a Dem lead Senate could bring any agreement to the floor in over four years.


----------



## cookiequeen

oops


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hmmm, let's see shall we? You have been following me around for over two years saying nothing of worth but attacks and personal insults.
> 
> Then you converge along with your Liberal buddies who did two, count them, two shouts outs to the Liar Liberal KP Gang on LOLL to come on this thread to spew your garbage.
> 
> Your first post here was complete snark.
> 
> You're second post on this thread was more of the same against Gali.
> 
> Then you diss Ted Cruz, a US Senator, for following the law even though he doesn't agree with it in your third post.
> 
> So you got exactly what you came here for, the perfect opportunity to change the subject into personal attacks on EVERY SINGLE PERSON you responded to ending with nonsense and putting words into my mouth as was your intention all along.
> 
> I never accused you of anything but you just keep on blaming me for all your problems.
> 
> Oh, look, your most recent post is another slam to Gali.
> 
> Pathetic, CookieQueen, pathetic.
> 
> The Libs don't want to speak about my thread topic, (Ted Cruz's accouncement or him specifically), you all just want to insult those you hate.
> 
> Count me out, I'll ignore you like the rest of the angry Libs. I hope the good people of KP will join me.


Garbage, liar!


----------



## kittykatzmom

That is what I have heard. So much for the Constitution!


----------



## kittykatzmom

With the mess the US in is I wish I had the money to move out of the country - keep my citizenship. You think any other country is in any better position?


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree as well. The military and veteran funding is thread-bare, sequester has assisted in less and less care and funding all because a Dem lead Senate could bring any agreement to the floor in over four years.


Nonsense. The repubs don't have a clue as to what to do in Congress. They get the job and sit there like fools.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

galinipper said:


> Fact check.org is owned by Annenberg of Chicago. Obama sat on the board of Anneberg dispersing up to 60 million dollars a year. Ayers also sat on that board. Non-Partisan isn't even in there vocabulary and there tentacals run deep.
> They are not what you claim.


 :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits

cookiequeen said:


> Nonsense. The repubs don't have a clue as to what to do in Congress. They get the job and sit there like fools.


From what I have seen they seem to be trying to find ways to s***w over the middle class and stomp on poor people.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> Wayne Alan Root was in the same program in the same years at Colombia, graduating in the same year. At a recent reunion, he could not find a student or a teacher that even remembered him as a student.
> 
> Wonder why no one remembered him!


Wayne Alan Root is a frequent visitor to Fox. That tells me enough about him to know that he doesn't always tell the truth and Fox does not require the truth, as has been proven by O'Reilly. I have read lots of comments made by classmates and roommates and dorm mates, as well as teachers and professors. You choose to believe someone like Root, rather than dozens of people writing their personal accounts of what they remember about President Obama, that is your choice. 
If you look at Wikipedia, it says Root graduated the same year as Obama, but he doesn't remember Obama. Pretty sad when that fact is the highlight of your education. But guess what, Root isn't even mentioned on Obama's Wikipedia page. Talk about not being remembered.

http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency


----------



## knitpresentgifts

For those who can imagine and consider supporting Ted Cruz as POTUS, what are your thoughts on his idea of abolishing the IRS?

When I first heard Ted say to imagine no IRS and a simple flat tax, I was surprised and thought immediately it would be so simple but put a lot of people out of work.

Now, imaging that thought, I'm not certain I wish no IRS completely. How are those who give to charities to be incentivize to continue doing so, how would we encourage people to buy homes without the mortgage interest deduction? How are companies not being able to reduce their tax burden with their R & D and equipment investments believing they should expand? How can we encourage manufacturing again in the USA without an IRS offering tax incentives? Then, too, why would investors and venture capitalists or angel investors take risks for no reward?

I'm interested in your ideas.


----------



## sumpleby

You would still need the IRS to handle things even if we went to a flat tax rate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> You would still need the IRS to handle things even if we went to a flat tax rate.


Not so. Any department or clerk could receive the postcard Cruz mentioned on which a simple flat tax would be filed. Trained tax agents would become obsolete.

I asked for justification of why or why not, not how, for those who could imagine and consider supporting the idea.


----------



## NJG

There are always lots of big ideas thrown out there such as no department of education, no IRS, no EPA, but I'll bet none of them have put any thought into how it would all work.


----------



## mojave

Businesses can currently receive tax deductions for contributions to employee retirement benefit plans. Under a flat tax system this deduction would likely be revoked with a probable decrease in retirement savings plans. Would this result in more people forced to rely on only Social Security? If people have to pay all costs of a private retirement plan, is anyone with an income under 100K per year going to have money to invest in stocks, securities, etc?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> Businesses can currently receive tax deductions for contributions to employee retirement benefit plans. Under a flat tax system this deduction would likely be revoked with a probable decrease in retirement savings plans. Would this result in more people forced to rely on only Social Security? If people have to pay all costs of a private retirement plan, is anyone with an income under 100K per year going to have money to invest in stocks, securities, etc?


Why assume a decrease in retirement savings and more reliance on only SS? The $ could still be be funded to IRAs, Roths, and SEPs, bonds, equities, etc., without the IRS. The deduction for qualifying retirements plans would probably be eliminated, but not the plans.

Also, I assume more discretionary $ available to the taxpayer if a flat tax for all. What private retirement costs are you referring to? Also, we could still have all the same retirement plans and a flat tax without the IRS.

You've given me more things to think about and imagine.


----------



## NJG

mojave said:


> Businesses can currently receive tax deductions for contributions to employee retirement benefit plans. Under a flat tax system this deduction would likely be revoked with a probable decrease in retirement savings plans. Would this result in more people forced to rely on only Social Security? If people have to pay all costs of a private retirement plan, is anyone with an income under 100K per year going to have money to invest in stocks, securities, etc?


Good question and if the republicans were to have complete control and they start to faze social security and medicare out, then what happens to those who don't earn enough to save enough for retirement. Even some of the companies who have a pension plan are backing out on what they promised they would do and people are left with nothing. Besides if everything a person has is invested in stocks and we have anpther 2008, then what happens? I don't think corporations will ever except a flat tax without any loopholes, or they will all move overseas, unless their tax is way less than the average Joe.


----------



## cindye6556

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not so. Any department or clerk could receive the postcard Cruz mentioned on which a simple flat tax would be filed. Trained tax agents would become obsolete.
> 
> I asked for justification of why or why not, not how, for those who could imagine and consider supporting the idea.


When income tax was first started in this country it was done on a post card. Heck the tax code didn't even fill a post card. When I did mine this year it amounted to 48 pages when you took into account all the worksheets, and necessary forms for filing. All because we have a farm, and home office....


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> What dozens of people? Their names? I have not seen another name on the web that went to school with 0bama, in this program and graduated the same year.


I have already posted this link once, but for you I will do it again.

http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends-2/


----------



## NJG

BSoetoro said:


> There is absolutely no Indonesian law that requires citizenship in order to attend public school. There's a law that _guarantees_ public education to citizens, but nothing that REQUIRES citizenship to attend public school That's just another easily debunked lie.
> 
> Obama never 'relinquished' his citizenship.
> 
> Why are people so easily suckered into that extremist Teabagnuttery?


Because they choose to believe the worst they can possibly find, regardless if it is true or not. That is why they listen to Fox. It tells them what they want to hear, truth doesn't matter.


----------



## NJG

BSoetoro said:


> It's scary that people so easily duped have the duty to vote.


You got that right, very scary.


----------



## NJG

BSoetoro said:


> There is absolutely no Indonesian law that requires citizenship in order to attend public school. There's a law that _guarantees_ public education to citizens, but nothing that REQUIRES citizenship to attend public school That's just another easily debunked lie.
> 
> Obama never 'relinquished' his citizenship.
> 
> Why are people so easily suckered into that extremist Teabagnuttery?


I already posted a link to debunk the lie, but it doesn't change her mind in the least. She will still pass it on as the truth, because that is what she wants to believe. It is amazing that people who claim to be such wonderful Christians can tell lies so easily. Teabagnuttery it certainly is.

http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/the-indonesian-citizenship-myth.html


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> I have already posted this link once, but for you I will do it again.
> 
> http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/people-remember-president-obama/friends-2/


----------



## damemary

BSoetoro said:


> It's scary that people so easily duped have the duty to vote.


----------



## damemary

Nothing here. Garbage truck must have finished its rounds.



cookiequeen said:


> Garbage, liar!


----------



## damemary

If that's truly the way you feel, do some research and maybe you'll find what you desire.



kittykatzmom said:


> With the mess the US in is I wish I had the money to move out of the country - keep my citizenship. You think any other country is in any better position?


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> Wayne Alan Root is a frequent visitor to Fox. That tells me enough about him to know that he doesn't always tell the truth and Fox does not require the truth, as has been proven by O'Reilly. I have read lots of comments made by classmates and roommates and dorm mates, as well as teachers and professors. You choose to believe someone like Root, rather than dozens of people writing their personal accounts of what they remember about President Obama, that is your choice.
> If you look at Wikipedia, it says Root graduated the same year as Obama, but he doesn't remember Obama. Pretty sad when that fact is the highlight of your education. But guess what, Root isn't even mentioned on Obama's Wikipedia page. Talk about not being remembered.
> 
> http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency


 :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

And would the government operate without steady revenue? Hope Congress' paychecks vanish first.



sumpleby said:


> You would still need the IRS to handle things even if we went to a flat tax rate.


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> There are always lots of big ideas thrown out there such as no department of education, no IRS, no EPA, but I'll bet none of them have put any thought into how it would all work.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> 6 students and 1 teacher remember him from Columbia in that article.


And there were comments from people that knew him and his mother and family since his birth, during his time at Occidental, Columbia, Harvard and jobs he held if you ever took the time to read all of it. Also there were two more people that were listed as spokesman for Columbia, that stated that he did attend and graduate and here is a link to the Columbia web site. I don't know what more you want. Even if every single person that graduated in 83 said he was there, you wouldn't believe it anyway. If you had been the nurse in the delivery room the day he was born, you wouldn't believe it.

http://www.college.columbia.edu/news/barack-obama-83-becomes-first-college-alumnus-to-win-presidency


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> When income tax was first started in this country it was done on a post card. Heck the tax code didn't even fill a post card. When I did mine this year it amounted to 48 pages when you took into account all the worksheets, and necessary forms for filing. All because we have a farm, and home office....


Hi cindy! I had no idea taxes were filed that way; I'm not _that_ old and missed hearing about it! However, I hear you on the pages upon pages and reports and worksheets for filing though. I own a couple of businesses and am still preparing returns for 2015.

What do you think about when imagining Ted's idea for abolishing the IRS and getting back to simple filings and a flat tax?

I'm still imagining and gathering my thoughts.


----------



## MarilynKnits

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why assume a decrease in retirement savings and more reliance on only SS? The $ could still be be funded to IRAs, Roths, and SEPs, bonds, equities, etc., without the IRS. The deduction for qualifying retirements plans would probably be eliminated, but not the plans.
> 
> Also, I assume more discretionary $ available to the taxpayer if a flat tax for all. What private retirement costs are you referring to? Also, we could still have all the same retirement plans and a flat tax without the IRS.
> 
> You've given me more things to think about and imagine.


Something to consider regarding a flat tax rate is that lower income people would have a larger proportion of their funds taken as taxes. Unless the flat rate were a graduated rate with, for example, a lower percentage for incomes under $20,000 per year per person in the household, something higher for $20, 001 to $40,000, and so on, so that lower income people would still have money to live on.

Whether you are a millionaire or on a part time minimum wage job, orange juice, milk, bread, and super market chicken still cost the same. And in some areas rents eat into people's incomes at 40% to 50% of the family monthly income.

There are many factors to consider as far as sales taxes, also. In some states necessities like bathroom paper and diapers are taxed, and in some states some foods are taxed. Income tax may be lowered, but the stealth taxes still prevail in some areas and impact on whether people can afford to save for their old age or afford the most modest vehicle to enable them to get to work.

Part of the educating of people should also include family economics. People need to learn how to budget, how to make decisions as to how to spend what income they have, how to balance a check book, how to comparison shop. To too many people a dollar in the pocket is a dollar to spend on the first item that hits their fancy. It is hard enough for all of us older people who had home ec and business classes in high school. Are any of these skills being taught now? High school or middle school seem to be the places to reach the most people.


----------



## MarilynKnits

BSoetoro said:


> Yes, I remember seeing that, there's also a Blaze article that admits that there's no requirement of citizenship to attend public school. I THINK back in 09.
> 
> Here it is 6 years later, and they're STILL trusting those goofy extremist sites to get their information?
> 
> Is there ANY self-pride at all, or are the happy being seen as this country's example of fat, stupid and *c*hristian?


It is also unfortunate that "mainstream" news that we get on major channels is heavy on local crimes and traffic accidents and scant on world issues. Not that many people listen to debate programs like Meet the Press or Richard French Live to hear different viewpoints. We don't have the equivalents of Edward R. Murrow, Walter Cronkite, and their ilk to present meaningful news. And do we still have social studies taught with some "meat" to it to help develop critical thinking?


----------



## Catarry

knitpresentgifts said:


> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


 Good grief...he was a minor when he was in school in Indonesia...he could not relinquish citizenship.


----------



## nmgram

cindye6556 said:


> When income tax was first started in this country it was done on a post card. Heck the tax code didn't even fill a post card. When I did mine this year it amounted to 48 pages when you took into account all the worksheets, and necessary forms for filing. All because we have a farm, and home office....


Ditto, even more than that for our small business and by the end, the accountants bill was more than we made.


----------



## GWPlver

BSoetoro said:


> There is absolutely no Indonesian law that requires citizenship in order to attend public school. There's a law that _guarantees_ public education to citizens, but nothing that REQUIRES citizenship to attend public school That's just another easily debunked lie.
> 
> Obama never 'relinquished' his citizenship.
> 
> Why are people so easily suckered into that extremist Teabagnuttery?


Ahem...because it doesn't require any critical thinking skills.


----------



## GWPlver

joeysomma said:


> Wayne Alan Root was in the same program in the same years at Colombia, graduating in the same year. At a recent reunion, he could not find a student or a teacher that even remembered him as a student.
> 
> Wonder why no one remembered him!


At what point does this even matter? Geesh....


----------



## GWPlver

Catarry said:


> Good grief...he was a minor when he was in school in Indonesia...he could not relinquish citizenship.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Catarry

cathy47 said:


> Well then if he is not an American Citizen how the heck was he a Senator in the US?


 The only office for which the Constitution requires natural-born citizen status is the Presidency (and v-p, of course).
If you had to become a naturalized citizen, you are still eligible to run for any other national office.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Catarry said:


> Good grief...he was a minor when he was in school in Indonesia...he could not relinquish citizenship.


Hi Catarry, I'm not interested in arguing Obama's American citizenship on this thread. I created this thread as I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of those who heard Cruz's "Imagine" announcement speech and discuss what he asked us to imagine.

However, if you'd like to discuss Obama's citizenship in either Indonesia or America, I may engage in that discussion elsewhere. Otherwise, perhaps you might look into the facts that support what I said;


knitpresentgifts said:


> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.


Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have dual citizenship and when turning 18 make a choice and declare his country. Obama had the opportunity to do so himself after he returned to the USA and became of age. That is what my comment referred to, and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.


----------



## Dangrktty

GWPlver said:


> God no! He is a nut job! We have had enough of him in Texas. And he would be a dictator!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Catarry, I'm not interested in arguing Obama's American citizenship. I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of those who heard Cruz's "Imagine" announcement speech and discuss what he asked us to imagine.
> 
> However, if you'd like to discuss Obama's citizenship in either Indonesia or America, I'd be willing to have that discussion elsewhere. Otherwise, perhaps you might look into the facts that support what I said.
> 
> Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have *duly* citizenship until 18 when they must make a choice and declare their country. Obama was of age and able to do so himself when he returned to the USA. *That is was my comment referred to,* and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.


I'm surprised that after you played "Grammar Police" last night on one of my posts that you are quick to correct the grammar of others and not your own. tsk tsk

When you put in a lot of overtime hours at your job, you assume you'll be duly paid. *Duly means "properly" or "appropriately."*
When something is done *duly*, it's expected, and it's considered proper or right. If someone gives a great speech, you expect that he'll be duly applauded for it. The word *due* is at the *root of duly*, and it comes from the Old French word deu, or "to owe." Something that is duly given can also be said to be owed. Be careful not to confuse duly, which rhymes with the name "Julie," with dully, "without liveliness."

Or in your case, *dual.*


----------



## Dangrktty

diamondbelle said:


> Ted Cruz makes Dan Quayle look like a genius.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Catarry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have duly citizenship until 18 when they must make a choice and declare their country. Obama was of age and able to do so himself when he returned to the USA. That is was my comment referred to, and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.


 My second response was to a comment about Cruz's eligibility to be a Senator. His mother was a citizen and he is one, regardless of his country of birth. This has been the long established reading of the Constitution, although it has never been tested in front of the Supreme Court in regard to a presidential candidate.

In regard to this idiocy regarding Obama being a renunciate, no one, not even parents, can renounce citizenship on someone else's behalf. If you wish to renounce citizenship, you must do it yourself. 
You'd have to prove that once the President reached his majority at the age of 18 or 21, *he* renounced, not that he affirmed. He was born a citizen and a citizen he remains.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have duly citizenship until 18 when they must make a choice and declare their country.


Obviously not. Ted Cruz held onto his dual citizenship well into adulthood--until 2014, if I remember correctly.


----------



## Catarry

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously not. Ted Cruz held onto his dual citizenship well into adulthood--until 2014, if I remember correctly.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously not. Ted Cruz held onto his dual citizenship well into adulthood--until 2014, if I remember correctly.


Yes, susan, you are correct. It was in June of 2014


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously not. Ted Cruz held onto his dual citizenship well into adulthood--until 2014, if I remember correctly.


dp


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Catarry said:


> My second response was to a comment about Cruz's eligibility to be a Senator. His mother was a citizen and he is one, regardless of his country of birth. This has been the long established reading of the Constitution, although it has never been tested in front of the Supreme Court in regard to a presidential candidate.
> 
> In regard to this idiocy regarding Obama being a renunciate, no one, not even parents, can renounce citizenship on someone else's behalf. If you wish to renounce citizenship, you must do it yourself.
> You'd have to prove that once the President reached his majority at the age of 18 or 21, *he* renounced, not that he affirmed. He was born a citizen and a citizen he remains.


I agree and have posted same. Ted Cruz is and has always been a natural born citizen thereby meeting the requirement to be an elected Senator (he is) and President (he'd like to be).

Dems tried to disqualify John McCain much in the same way who was also a natural born citizen and is a Senator and wanted to be President.

Both men have completely different facts surrounding their citizenship status as compared to the facts on Obama.


----------



## Catarry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree and have posted same. Ted Cruz is and has always been a natural born citizen thereby meeting the requirement to be an elected Senator (he is) and President (he'd like to be).
> 
> Dems tried to disqualify John McCain much in the same way who was also a natural born citizen and is a Senator and wanted to be President.


 So why the endless bullshit over Obama?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Catarry said:


> So why the endless bullshit over Obama?


I haven't offered any BS over Obama. The Libs did.


----------



## damemary

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm surprised that after you played "Grammar Police" last night on one of my posts that you are quick to correct the grammar of others and not your own. tsk tsk
> 
> When you put in a lot of overtime hours at your job, you assume you'll be duly paid. *Duly means "properly" or "appropriately."*
> When something is done *duly*, it's expected, and it's considered proper or right. If someone gives a great speech, you expect that he'll be duly applauded for it. The word *due* is at the *root of duly*, and it comes from the Old French word deu, or "to owe." Something that is duly given can also be said to be owed. Be careful not to confuse duly, which rhymes with the name "Julie," with dully, "without liveliness."
> 
> Or in your case, *dual.*


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## damemary

Catarry said:


> So why the endless bullshit over Obama?


 :?: :?: :?: :?: Only one answer.


----------



## Catarry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I haven't offered any BS over Obama. The Libs did.


 His disappearing citizenship is what I'm referring to. And if you can't discern that what you're arguing is bullshit, then there's no point engaging you.

I've given clear answers to your fictions, so I'll be unwatching this topic from here on.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Catarry said:


> His disappearing citizenship is what I'm referring to. And if you can't discern that what you're arguing is bullshit, then there's no point engaging you.
> 
> I've given clear answers to your fictions, so I'll be unwatching this topic from here on.


I don't argue BS, I speak to the facts. You haven't given any answers to my fictions, as I haven't offered any nor asked any questions re Obama's citizenship.

I said I'm not going to discuss Obama's citizenship on this thread and will stick to the original topic.

As always, you are free to leave or stay as I'm free to respond or not respond.


----------



## jmf6406

Okay. So we abolish the IRS and replace it with??? Perhaps we are all so used to having safe food to eat, government controls on workplace safety, roads to drive on, schools for our kids, government safety standards for transportation, relatively clean air and water, buildings that don't collapse and kill people, National Parks to enjoy with our families, bridges and tunnels for our autos, trucks and trains, the biggest military might in the world (so I heard on TV--did not fact check this) and so on that we forget that all these things are paid for by taxes. Of course some of this is funded by state and local taxes, but Federal taxes pay for a large portion. The tax code DOES need to be cleaned up, but that isn't the fault of the IRS. Congress is the one that passes these laws. The IRS simply enforces the laws. (No, I don't work for the IRS.)


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm surprised that after you played "Grammar Police" last night on one of my posts that you are quick to correct the grammar of others and not your own. tsk tsk
> 
> When you put in a lot of overtime hours at your job, you assume you'll be duly paid. *Duly means "properly" or "appropriately."*
> When something is done *duly*, it's expected, and it's considered proper or right. If someone gives a great speech, you expect that he'll be duly applauded for it. The word *due* is at the *root of duly*, and it comes from the Old French word deu, or "to owe." Something that is duly given can also be said to be owed. Be careful not to confuse duly, which rhymes with the name "Julie," with dully, "without liveliness."
> 
> Or in your case, *dual.*


Bratty Patty
can you imagine you and me being ordered to attend a political speech and if we fail to show up will be fined? That is how the Communists keep their people in check. Welcome Comrade Cruz to non-Liberty University.


----------



## Huckleberry

Catarry said:


> My second response was to a comment about Cruz's eligibility to be a Senator. His mother was a citizen and he is one, regardless of his country of birth. This has been the long established reading of the Constitution, although it has never been tested in front of the Supreme Court in regard to a presidential candidate.
> 
> In regard to this idiocy regarding Obama being a renunciate, no one, not even parents, can renounce citizenship on someone else's behalf. If you wish to renounce citizenship, you must do it yourself.
> You'd have to prove that once the President reached his majority at the age of 18 or 21, *he* renounced, not that he affirmed. He was born a citizen and a citizen he remains.


Catarry
no matter how hard we try to educate some folks, it cannot work. They reached their "limit" long ago.


----------



## Huckleberry

cookiequeen said:


> Nonsense. The repubs don't have a clue as to what to do in Congress. They get the job and sit there like fools.


cookiequeen
actually the fools are we who keep paying them and now even substitute Cruz's Health Insurance. Ain't that the pits.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a fantastic introduction to Ted Cruz who just announced his run for President of the United States.
> 
> :thumbup:


knitpresentgifts
fantastic is that Cruz is now having his ACA Health Insurance substituted by WE THE PEOPLE. The very Health Insurance he vowed to eliminate word by word. What a prick.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knit presentsgifts wrote:
*I haven't offered any BS over Obama. The Libs did.*



lovethelake said:


> Like Obama? Sorry, O thinks he is 'the chosen one' aka an emperor or Socialist


This is not a "Lib" above

knitpresentgifts wrote:
The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.

knitpresentsgifts wrote:
Because Cruz wants to abolish the IRS does not mean tax revenue will not flow to the Fed Govt. I've never heard Ted say he'll cut SS, Medicare, etc., as you claim either. I have heard him speak of reforms to build up those programs and get ahold of the unruly spending and balance the Fed budget by law each year and make sure our military members are properly funded to protect themselves while they protect our Nation. Cruz is for growth, in all areas except debt and deficits to heal out nation from the burden it has been under the past six years.

THOSE ideals are what is in the BEST interest of American citizens.

To your point of Obamacare - what happens to the millions who have seen their premiums skyrocket just to keep or have worse coverage than before its passing, and to all those who received subsidies if the SCOTUS rules that the law is as written? All those millions loose their subsidies and once again have no coverage and could possibly owe back $ and perhaps penalties. Because the insurance is no longer available or affordable, millions more will be without than ever before. The Dems never thought of those people before or since when they wrote and passed the bill (without a single vote by a Republican) nor did they tell the American people the truth of Obamacare which has proven to be a complete disaster.

The Tea Party is the very definition of the party against corps and lobbyists and those taking away the liberties granted to US citizens in The Constitution. Not as you state.

At this time, after six + years under Obama, America has the lowest participation in the workforce since the Great Depression, 50% of citizens are receiving food stamps and other entitlements, we have the highest % of the poor ever, a crippling debt of 18 trillion, pathetic GDP increases, unfair trade agreements and the destruction of education and the middle class.
Those stats are Obama's and certainly no one would agree are in the best interest of our country or its citizens.

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Knitpresentgifts wrote:

The Right claimed he wasn't an American citizen when he ran/became POTUS. Again, not because of where he was born, but the FACT he gave up his citizenship and never reinstated same. Birthers were wrong, those who know the facts are not. Obama spent at least a million to cover his tracks, hide the records and fudge the system, but the facts remain and are widely known for those who seek and listen for the truth. Nothing to defend, Cruz is and has always been a natural born American citizen = required to hold the office of President.
At the time of his first election Obama did not meet the requirement.

Knitpresentgifts wrote:
Hi Catarry, I'm not interested in arguing Obama's American citizenship on this thread. I created this thread as I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of those who heard Cruz's "Imagine" announcement speech and discuss what he asked us to imagine.
Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have dual citizenship and when turning 18 make a choice and declare his country. Obama had the opportunity to do so himself after he returned to the USA and became of age. That is what my comment referred to, and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.

BrattyPatty wrote: 
Would you like to try that again? Or maybe you meant to say something else.


----------



## Huckleberry

jmf6406 said:


> Sure hope whoever becomes our next President is someone who has some diplomacy and tact (which I think leaves Sen. Cruz off the list) It doesn't take a genius to figure out how touchy some of the world leaders are. Shooting off your mouth as President leads to people shooting and bombing each other.


jmf6406
diplomacy is what will keep our future safer.


----------



## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> knit presentsgifts wrote:
> *I haven't offered any BS over Obama. The Libs did.*
> 
> This is not a "Lib" above
> 
> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> The issue with Obama isn't about where he was born. Obama gave up his American citizenship in order to attend school in Indonesia (a requirement) and never reapplied when returning to the USA making him without American citizenship when he first ran for office.
> 
> knitpresentsgifts wrote:
> Because Cruz wants to abolish the IRS does not mean tax revenue will not flow to the Fed Govt. I've never heard Ted say he'll cut SS, Medicare, etc., as you claim either. I have heard him speak of reforms to build up those programs and get ahold of the unruly spending and balance the Fed budget by law each year and make sure our military members are properly funded to protect themselves while they protect our Nation. Cruz is for growth, in all areas except debt and deficits to heal out nation from the burden it has been under the past six years.
> 
> THOSE ideals are what is in the BEST interest of American citizens.
> 
> To your point of Obamacare - what happens to the millions who have seen their premiums skyrocket just to keep or have worse coverage than before its passing, and to all those who received subsidies if the SCOTUS rules that the law is as written? All those millions loose their subsidies and once again have no coverage and could possibly owe back $ and perhaps penalties. Because the insurance is no longer available or affordable, millions more will be without than ever before. The Dems never thought of those people before or since when they wrote and passed the bill (without a single vote by a Republican) nor did they tell the American people the truth of Obamacare which has proven to be a complete disaster.
> 
> The Tea Party is the very definition of the party against corps and lobbyists and those taking away the liberties granted to US citizens in The Constitution. Not as you state.
> 
> At this time, after six + years under Obama, America has the lowest participation in the workforce since the Great Depression, 50% of citizens are receiving food stamps and other entitlements, we have the highest % of the poor ever, a crippling debt of 18 trillion, pathetic GDP increases, unfair trade agreements and the destruction of education and the middle class.
> Those stats are Obama's and certainly no one would agree are in the best interest of our country or its citizens.
> 
> Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
> 
> Knitpresentgifts wrote:
> 
> The Right claimed he wasn't an American citizen when he ran/became POTUS. Again, not because of where he was born, but the FACT he gave up his citizenship and never reinstated same. Birthers were wrong, those who know the facts are not. Obama spent at least a million to cover his tracks, hide the records and fudge the system, but the facts remain and are widely known for those who seek and listen for the truth. Nothing to defend, Cruz is and has always been a natural born American citizen = required to hold the office of President.
> At the time of his first election Obama did not meet the requirement.
> 
> Knitpresentgifts wrote:
> Hi Catarry, I'm not interested in arguing Obama's American citizenship on this thread. I created this thread as I'm interested in hearing the thoughts of those who heard Cruz's "Imagine" announcement speech and discuss what he asked us to imagine.
> Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have dual citizenship and when turning 18 make a choice and declare his country. Obama had the opportunity to do so himself after he returned to the USA and became of age. That is what my comment referred to, and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.
> 
> BrattyPatty wrote:
> Would you like to try that again?


I'm sure she'll be delighted to, Patty.

Get out your shovels, folks--we're about to be buried under a mountain of manure.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi cindy! I had no idea taxes were filed that way; I'm not _that_ old and missed hearing about it! However, I hear you on the pages upon pages and reports and worksheets for filing though. I own a couple of businesses and am still preparing returns for 2015.
> 
> What do you think about when imagining Ted's idea for abolishing the IRS and getting back to simple filings and a flat tax?
> 
> I'm still imagining and gathering my thoughts.


knitpresentgifts
yes, try to gather your thoughts, the taxes we are filing now are for 2014 not 2015. Not even quarterly taxes are due as yet. Get your ducks in a row. As to a flat tax, just a dream and already being undermined by big money. It would be to their detriment. I thought your coke bottle caps business was shut down.


----------



## Huckleberry

Got to love it, Mr. Cruz having no good answer as to why he is enrolling himself and his Family in ACA and is being substituted by WE THE PEOPLE. Perhaps we should start a movement to deny Health Care to Cruz and his cronies who want to repeal Obamacare.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure she'll be delighted to, Patty.
> 
> Get out your shovels, folks--we're about to be buried under a mountain of manure.


susanmos2000
oh Lord and without an EPA we will be poisoned by deadly fumes.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> Not exactly, If the IRS enforced the law exactly as it was written they would not be collecting the "shared responsibility payment." There is nothing in the ACA law that permits the IRS to collect it. It was done by 0bama's "pen and phone."


joeysomma
that was to give those in Washington who do not want to enroll in ACA a way out and guess what, they happily are 
ACA recipients and most of them get substitutions on top of all. No shame to dip into OUR pockets, have they?


----------



## mojave

Perhaps this is the stupid question of the day...

Why is Ted Cruz signing up for ACA medical coverage? Does not Congress have its own special medical care program utilizing the military medical facilities?

Warning...paranoia lifting its head...Is the Senator plotting an expose of ACA as campaign tactic?


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> Like Obama? Sorry, O thinks he is 'the chosen one' aka an emperor or Socialist


lovethelake
dumb statements you keep making. Are you still driving on dirt Roads?


----------



## mojave

Uh, Huckleberry, some of us live in houses accessed via dirt roads by choice


----------



## SQM

Huckleberry said:


> Got to love it, Mr. Cruz having no good answer as to why he is enrolling himself and his Family in ACA and is being substituted by WE THE PEOPLE. Perhaps we should start a movement to deny Health Care to Cruz and his cronies who want to repeal Obamacare.


Pooey. I wanted to post that Heidi Cruz et al, are going on ACA. What bloody hypocrites. My older historical bro calls Cruz a panderer. I liked that.


----------



## GWPlver

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> can you imagine you and me being ordered to attend a political speech and if we fail to show up will be fined? That is how the Communists keep their people in check. Welcome Comrade Cruz to non-Liberty University.


Some of the comments from the students were hysterical.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Who are the Democrats offering? Hillary? Talk about being smug and above everyone else. Elizabeth Warren - another Obama wannabe. Anyone else or is the field that sparse?


soloweygirl
learn the difference between quality and quantity. We always go for quality. We also support our Candidates by free Will, we do not accept being threatened by fines if we do not show up for any of their speeches. Cruz had no choice but to go to Non-Liberty University. He could have never gathered that amount of People in his Home State. After all he is ONLY popular with the nutjobs and his LU audience was forced to attend his well rehearsed talk. Let us interrupt him the next time he speaks and we shall see how flustered he gets.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

jmf6406 said:


> Okay. So we abolish the IRS and replace it with??? Perhaps we are all so used to having safe food to eat, government controls on workplace safety, roads to drive on, schools for our kids, government safety standards for transportation, relatively clean air and water, buildings that don't collapse and kill people, National Parks to enjoy with our families, bridges and tunnels for our autos, trucks and trains, the biggest military might in the world (so I heard on TV--did not fact check this) and so on that we forget that all these things are paid for by taxes. Of course some of this is funded by state and local taxes, but Federal taxes pay for a large portion. The tax code DOES need to be cleaned up, but that isn't the fault of the IRS. Congress is the one that passes these laws. The IRS simply enforces the laws. (No, I don't work for the IRS.)


Please understand Ted isn't saying to abolish tax revenue, he said to imagine abolishing the IRS. In fact, Ted suggested a simple filing of tax returns and a flat tax in his speech. As I've said before, we don't really need tax trained agents to process income tax returns filed and we could get rid of the entire cumbersome IRS Code and create a simple, flat tax, progressive tax, etc., accordingly. Naturally, all things must be considered, including job loss and incentives, but the USA can collect tax revenue without the IRS and its Code (laws).


----------



## Huckleberry

GWPlver said:


> Some of the comments from the students were hysterical.


GWPIver
at least there will be a Circus with plenty of performers in the Ring to entertain us for a while.


----------



## GWPlver

Huckleberry said:


> GWPIver
> at least there will be a Circus with plenty of performers in the Ring to entertain us for a while.


Definitely. I wonder which of the GOP will begin to distance themselves from Cruz. Happened in Austin.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Please understand Ted isn't saying to abolish tax revenue, he said to imagine abolishing the IRS. In fact, Ted suggested a simple filing of tax returns and a flat tax in his speech. As I've said before, we don't really need tax trained agents to process income tax returns filed and we could get rid of the entire cumbersome IRS Code and create a simple, flat tax, progressive tax, etc., accordingly. Naturally, all things must be considered, including job loss, but the USA can collect tax revenue without the IRS and its Code (laws).


knitpresentgifts
sure, let a Mafia type hoard collect the taxes. Privatize tax collection and none of us will have safe entry into our homes. Most doors will be kicked in just for the hell of it. It would be a very profitable business for tax collectors just as the privatized Prisons have become. What a scary thought.


----------



## Dangrktty

NJG said:


> He has not put boots on the ground in Syria or Iran and I think that is awesome. If we had a republican president, that would not be the case.


Whenever a politician...any politician... utters the phrase, "boots on the ground", they are not talking about their own feet inside their own personal pair of Justin Ropers. 
None of them are willing to sign up, line up, suit up in BDUs, strap on a Kalishnikov, rappel down the side of a cliff, roll around in the sand with live ordinance in some camel and goat oriented nation and rain hell down on other people. Not personally.
The US has been at war with some nation or group of people, enemies real or imagined, since the first colonists arrived in the New World. Much of it armed conflict, often covert and sub rosa, it all amounts to the same thing. 
..."You believe differently, you see the world differently, your ways are not our ways. Our deity hates the same people we hate, therefore you must die."
That same sentiment, paraphrased, is echoing all over the Middle East right now. The US is the best friend Israel has and we are in a hard place. The entire region is a powder keg, and everyone is holding a match. Netanyahu spoke before the US Congress (why?), and I do not understand why signers of a recent letter were not hanged as traitors. Have they taken leave of their senses? 
Obama promised to bring US troops home and close Guantanamo. Didn't happen. All those enemy combatants have to go somewhere, and very few countries have agreed to accept them.
US troops arrived in Viet Nam right after WWII. Nixon promised to bring US troops home. It happened, then Saigon fell as soon as the last US helicopter left, and the killing of civilians commenced. Khmer Rouge, Pol Pot, the killing fields...
Geopolitics is like shifting sand, and it changes in every generation. Axis powers in one century are allies in another generation. Current generations are untangling policies of previous administrations and nations, and so it goes, and so it shall continue. 
Politicians want to get elected and then reelected. That is their entire job. They are supposed to represent their constituents. I wonder if they listen. Really, it's all about the money. Corporations, big donor$, one hand washing the other.
Ted Cruz will not abolish the IRS any more than Al Gore could put social security in a lock box. The IRS is so deeply entrenched, the only way to eliminate it would be a refusal of the American people, to pay taxes, en masse, and probably an armed revolt and the National Guard involvement. Ted Cruz hasn't actually thought this one through. Judging by the comments here, plenty of people were moved by his speech.
I was reminded of his "green eggs and ham" soliloquy.


----------



## susanmos2000

Dangrktty said:


> Whenever a politician...any politician... utters the phrase, "boots on the ground", they are not talking about their own feet inside their own personal pair of Justin Ropers.
> None of them are willing to sign up, line up, suit up in BDUs, strap on a Kalishnikov, rappel down the side of a cliff, roll around in the sand with live ordinance in some camel and goat oriented nation and rain hell down on other people. Not personally.
> The US has been at war with some nation or group of people, enemies real or imagined, since the first colonists arrived in the New World. Much of it armed conflict, often covert and sub rosa, it all amounts to the same thing.
> ..."You believe differently, you see the world differently, your ways are not our ways. Our deity hates the same people we hate, therefore you must die."
> That same sentiment, paraphrased, is echoing all over the Middle East right now. The US is the best friend Israel has and we are in a hard place. The entire region is a powder keg, and everyone is holding a match. Netanyahu spoke before the US Congress (why?), and I do not understand why signers of a recent letter were not hanged as traitors. Have they taken leave of their senses?
> Obama promised to bring US troops home and close Guantanamo. Didn't happen. All those enemy combatants have to go somewhere, and very few countries have agreed to accept them.
> US troops arrived in Viet Nam right after WWII. Nixon promised to bring US troops home. It happened, then Saigon fell as soon as the last US helicopter left, and the killing of civilians commenced. Khmer Rouge, Pol Pot, the killing fields...
> Geopolitics is like shifting sand, and it changes in every generation. Axis powers in one century are allies in another generation. Current generations are untangling policies of previous administrations and nations, and so it goes, and so it shall continue.
> Politicians want to get elected and then reelected. That is their entire job. They are supposed to represent their constituents. I wonder if they listen. Really, it's all about the money. Corporations, big donor$, one hand washing the other.
> Ted Cruz will not abolish the IRS any more than Al Gore could put social security in a lock box. The IRS is so deeply entrenched, the only way to eliminate it would be a refusal of the American people, to pay taxes, en masse, and probably an armed revolt and the National Guard involvement. Ted Cruz hasn't actually thought this one through. Judging by the comments here, plenty of people were moved by his speech.
> I was reminded of his "green eggs and ham" soliloquy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> yes, try to gather your thoughts, the taxes we are filing now are for 2014 not 2015. Not even quarterly taxes are due as yet. Get your ducks in a row. As to a flat tax, just a dream and already being undermined by big money. It would be to their detriment. I thought your coke bottle caps business was shut down.


Perhaps you should gather your own thoughts and keep your ducks in your own backyard.

I don't know what YOU are filing presently, but I'm working on 2011-2015 tax returns, schedules, extensions, estate returns and planning and preparing worksheets for final returns for 2015 and corrected returns for those years EXACTLY as I stated albeit I only mentioned 2015 (the work in front of me at the time).

You have repeated that WE THE PEOPLE shouldn't be "substituting" (or some form of the word) Ted Cruz's ACA coverage. You probably meant 'subsidy' although you repeated a form of the word 'substitute' multiple times without correction so I take it that is the word you mean. Please explain especially because Cruz said the ACA should be repealed which would eliminate all subsidies and the IRS' part to calculate some subsidies and fines and collect on those without health insurance coverage as mandated within the law or by Obama.

For the final time, I've never had a 'coke bottle caps' business nor have any of my businesses ever failed.

Can you write a post without insulting another?


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obviously, when Obama was a minor, one acknowledges his parents acted on his behalf. Any American citizen can have dual citizenship and when turning 18 make a choice and declare his country. Obama had the opportunity to do so himself after he returned to the USA and became of age. That is what my comment referred to, and I've yet to see any proof Obama made that declaration.


Proof has been posted, but you obviously are not smart enough to comprehend what it said. It is easier for you to live in your own little world and believe your lies.


----------



## Huckleberry

mojave said:


> Uh, Huckleberry, some of us live in houses accessed via dirt roads by choice


mojave 
sorry I should have clarified that. I meant if she ever drives on paved roads. We access one of our properties via a dirt road. Paved roads are part of a socialist program. We all benefit from many socialist programs.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps you should gather your own thoughts and keep your ducks in your own backyard.
> 
> I don't know what YOU are filing presently, but I'm working on 2011-2015 tax returns, schedules, extensions, estate returns and planning and preparing worksheets for final returns for 2015 and corrected returns for those years EXACTLY as I stated albeit I only mentioned 2015 (the work in front of me at the time).
> 
> You have repeated that WE THE PEOPLE shouldn't be 'substituted" (or some form of the word) Ted Cruz's ACA coverage. You probably meant 'subsidy' although you repeated a form of the word 'substitute' multiple times without correction so I take it that is the word you mean. Please explain especially because Cruz said the ACA should be repealed which would eliminate all subsidies and the IRS' part to calculate some subsidies and fines and collect on those without health insurance coverage as mandated within the law.
> 
> For the final time, I've never had a 'coke bottle caps' business nor have any of my businesses ever failed.


knitpresentgifts
years behind in your tax filings? Stay off this thread and catch up. Get your stuff together. Oh my, I used an incorrect word, tish, tish, No A this time around. Do I need to correct coke bottle caps and say political buttons instead? May need glasses.


----------



## sumpleby

It's amusing, when looking at Cruz's speech to a captive, mandatory audience, just how many of those students didn't clap. Some were reading or texting on their phones, as well. Also loved the kids prominently wearing "I Stand For Rand" t-shorts to the speech.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Proof has been posted, but you obviously are not smart enough to comprehend what it said. It is easier for you to live in your own little world and believe your lies.


Yep, I remain a one-percenter exactly as you said.


----------



## Huckleberry

Dangrktty said:


> Whenever a politician...any politician... utters the phrase, "boots on the ground", they are not talking about their own feet inside their own personal pair of Justin Ropers.
> None of them are willing to sign up, line up, suit up in BDUs, strap on a Kalishnikov, rappel down the side of a cliff, roll around in the sand with live ordinance in some camel and goat oriented nation and rain hell down on other people. Not personally.
> The US has been at war with some nation or group of people, enemies real or imagined, since the first colonists arrived in the New World. Much of it armed conflict, often covert and sub rosa, it all amounts to the same thing.
> ..."You believe differently, you see the world differently, your ways are not our ways. Our deity hates the same people we hate, therefore you must die."
> That same sentiment, paraphrased, is echoing all over the Middle East right now. The US is the best friend Israel has and we are in a hard place. The entire region is a powder keg, and everyone is holding a match. Netanyahu spoke before the US Congress (why?), and I do not understand why signers of a recent letter were not hanged as traitors. Have they taken leave of their senses?
> Obama promised to bring US troops home and close Guantanamo. Didn't happen. All those enemy combatants have to go somewhere, and very few countries have agreed to accept them.
> US troops arrived in Viet Nam right after WWII. Nixon promised to bring US troops home. It happened, then Saigon fell as soon as the last US helicopter left, and the killing of civilians commenced. Khmer Rouge, Pol Pot, the killing fields...
> Geopolitics is like shifting sand, and it changes in every generation. Axis powers in one century are allies in another generation. Current generations are untangling policies of previous administrations and nations, and so it goes, and so it shall continue.
> Politicians want to get elected and then reelected. That is their entire job. They are supposed to represent their constituents. I wonder if they listen. Really, it's all about the money. Corporations, big donor$, one hand washing the other.
> Ted Cruz will not abolish the IRS any more than Al Gore could put social security in a lock box. The IRS is so deeply entrenched, the only way to eliminate it would be a refusal of the American people, to pay taxes, en masse, and probably an armed revolt and the National Guard involvement. Ted Cruz hasn't actually thought this one through. Judging by the comments here, plenty of people were moved by his speech.
> I was reminded of his "green eggs and ham" soliloquy.


Dangrktty
THANK YOU, very well stated. Why do we let Traitors live?


----------



## NJG

MarilynKnits said:


> Something to consider regarding a flat tax rate is that lower income people would have a larger proportion of their funds taken as taxes. Unless the flat rate were a graduated rate with, for example, a lower percentage for incomes under $20,000 per year per person in the household, something higher for $20, 001 to $40,000, and so on, so that lower income people would still have money to live on.
> 
> Whether you are a millionaire or on a part time minimum wage job, orange juice, milk, bread, and super market chicken still cost the same. And in some areas rents eat into people's incomes at 40% to 50% of the family monthly income.
> 
> There are many factors to consider as far as sales taxes, also. In some states necessities like bathroom paper and diapers are taxed, and in some states some foods are taxed. Income tax may be lowered, but the stealth taxes still prevail in some areas and impact on whether people can afford to save for their old age or afford the most modest vehicle to enable them to get to work.
> 
> Part of the educating of people should also include family economics. People need to learn how to budget, how to make decisions as to how to spend what income they have, how to balance a check book, how to comparison shop. To too many people a dollar in the pocket is a dollar to spend on the first item that hits their fancy. It is hard enough for all of us older people who had home ec and business classes in high school. Are any of these skills being taught now? High school or middle school seem to be the places to reach the most people.[/quote
> 
> Talking about food stamps, there is a Missouri congressman, republican of course, who has introduced a bill to keep food stamp recipients from buying cookies, chips, energy drinks, soft drinks, seafood, or steak, cause you know how all those people live on lobster and steak every day. I wish that congressman had to feed a family of 3 or 4 on food stamps for a month. As one who received food stamps for a few months when I had a 2 year old and was pregnant with my second, just feeding two of us was no picnic. I don't understand such stupidity. God forbid a person receiving food stamps would like to buy a can of tuna.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Dangrktty said:


> Whenever a politician...any politician... utters the phrase, "boots on the ground", they are not talking about their own feet inside their own personal pair of Justin Ropers.
> None of them are willing to sign up, line up, suit up in BDUs, strap on a Kalishnikov, rappel down the side of a cliff, roll around in the


.... I couldn't read beyond your few first repulsive words.

Have you forgotten John McCain, Ronald Reagan, Bush, Bob Dole, Scott Brown, John Kerry, Al Gore, Tom Daschle, etc., and the hundreds of both men and women who signed up and wore the military uniform for the United States of America and later became a politician or elected member of Congress or the President.

Yes, you did and that's disgusting. I hope to God you are not an American as I'm ashamed of you.


----------



## NJG

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously not. Ted Cruz held onto his dual citizenship well into adulthood--until 2014, if I remember correctly.


Once again she proves how smart she isn't.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> years behind in your tax filings? Stay off this thread and catch up. Get your stuff together. Oh my, I used an incorrect word, tish, tish, No A this time around. Do I need to correct coke bottle caps and say political buttons instead? May need glasses.


I have never been behind in filing my taxes. I created this thread and don't answer to you. You are mad and don't deserve a response to your stupidity. You obviously have nothing to support your opinions, just insults and insane commentary.

Hint: You need more than glasses.


----------



## NJG

jmf6406 said:


> Okay. So we abolish the IRS and replace it with??? Perhaps we are all so used to having safe food to eat, government controls on workplace safety, roads to drive on, schools for our kids, government safety standards for transportation, relatively clean air and water, buildings that don't collapse and kill people, National Parks to enjoy with our families, bridges and tunnels for our autos, trucks and trains, the biggest military might in the world (so I heard on TV--did not fact check this) and so on that we forget that all these things are paid for by taxes. Of course some of this is funded by state and local taxes, but Federal taxes pay for a large portion. The tax code DOES need to be cleaned up, but that isn't the fault of the IRS. Congress is the one that passes these laws. The IRS simply enforces the laws. (No, I don't work for the IRS.)


But you see, if republicans have control, they don't like regulations. They want big business to work without all the restrictions. So fewer safety standards also means fewer inspectors to make sure standards are being followed. Fewer inspectors means less money the government has to spend. Besides with fewer unions, employers have less rules to follow, so that means more money in their pockets. The people with money will send their kids to private schools, so the public schools will need less money and if their buildings are in need of repair, well it may not get done as quickly as they would like. There are no inspections being made of course. It goes on and on. I bet they would want the military to be paid first and education and then food stamps at the bottom of the list. I don't want to live in their world.


----------



## NJG

Huckleberry said:


> Catarry
> no matter how hard we try to educate some folks, it cannot work. They reached their "limit" long ago.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Here we go again, the evil Lib Liar Gang has hijacked another thread and can offer nothing to the OP.

Have fun girls!


----------



## sodoit

are you imagining good or bad?


----------



## MaidInBedlam

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


I haven't caught up with all the posts here so I may be repeating what has already been said, but here goes, anyway. Since Ted Cruz was born to an American mother, he automatically became a US citizen at birth. The question of dual citizenship doesn't seem to apply because he renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2013, and has also resided in the US for at least 14 years.

Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution states:
"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."


----------



## NJG

mojave said:


> Perhaps this is the stupid question of the day...
> 
> Why is Ted Cruz signing up for ACA medical coverage? Does not Congress have its own special medical care program utilizing the military medical facilities?
> 
> Warning...paranoia lifting its head...Is the Senator plotting an expose of ACA as campaign tactic?


Originally they were going to keep what they had. But then wonderful C Grassley, my wonderful senator from Iowa, introduced a bill to make congress use the ACA also, because he was sure the democrats would say no way, not us, but instead, they said good idea Charlie!!!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Huckleberry said:


> mojave
> sorry I should have clarified that. I meant if she ever drives on paved roads. We access one of our properties via a dirt road. Paved roads are part of a socialist program. We all benefit from many socialist programs.


Oh, you must mean your island property. :-D


----------



## lovethelake

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> can you imagine you and me being ordered to attend a political speech and if we fail to show up will be fined? That is how the Communists keep their people in check. Welcome Comrade Cruz to non-Liberty University.


Isn't that really what Obama proposed to do with mandatory voting in this country last week? If he thinks mandatory voting is needed, wouldn't it make sense that mandatory attendance to political rallies be the next logical step? Don't remember hearing Cruz propose any of those ideas, so I do not understand you labeling Cruz a Communist, or at least include Obama in that University too.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, I remain a one-percenter exactly as you said.


In your dreams you are a one percenteer, you can't even comprehend what you read.


----------



## cindye6556

mojave said:


> Uh, Huckleberry, some of us live in houses accessed via dirt roads by choice


Yes, we do. One is 7 miles long and a washboard, the other is 5 and not seen a plow or grader in over 6mths.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> I agree. It wasn't long ago that the republicans were all loving on Putin. Giuliani said "he made a decision in the morning and acted on it that afternoon, now that is a leader."
> Really? Do we want someone who gives no more thought to starting a war than that? I don't think so. I think Cruz would be like that. Don't think, open mouth, insert foot.


Yet you prefer someone that has all the information right in front of him and still can't decide what to do. The best he gets from his press secretary is that the president is still formulating his opinion.

How about a president that is obsessed with becoming an ally with a sworn enemy - all the while Obama is wining and dining Iran, they are shooting straight from the hip stating "death to Americans". How Obama believes Iran will live up to any "deal" made is mind boggling. Iran has done nothing by lie to the world, stalled talks and deadlines, whine about sanctions all the while continuing on their merry way acquiring nuclear weapons.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here we go again, the evil Lib Liar Gang has hijacked another thread and can offer nothing to the OP.
> 
> Have fun girls!


And here she goes, calling people liars again. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
She can't accept the fact that there are more agianst Cruz than are for him. 
So that turns the Liberals into liars.
Wave the white flag and say goodnight, Gracie.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Originally they were going to keep what they had. But then wonderful C Grassley, my wonderful senator from Iowa, introduced a bill to make congress use the ACA also, because he was sure the democrats would say no way, not us, but instead, they said good idea Charlie!!!


Oh, no! NJG, you're not toeing the Dem party line and sticking to the story that Cruz is a hypocrite (your favorite word or at least used to be when I used to read your posts) and nuts for obeying the law he doesn't agree with and wants to repeal.

Check out what sumpleby and CookieQueen had to say (this thread) explaining why Cruz will sign up for the ACA. It has nothing to do with your wonderful senator from Iowa. I'm surprised you did not know that with all your wisdom. :shock:


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here we go again, the evil Lib Liar Gang has hijacked another thread and can offer nothing to the OP.
> 
> Have fun girls!


The problem is KPG, you tell so many lies, that we just have to constantly correct you. We just keep hoping that someday we might see some progress, although it hasn't happened yet.


----------



## soloweygirl

mojave said:


> Check your sources. Addicting Info is running a story about Ted Cruz signing up for an ACA medical insurance plan due to losing his wife's job-provided health care coverage. After Cruz spent so many months tying up Congress with his opposition to the ACA instead of trying to resolve the problems of this country, now he signs up for ACA?? Methinks the 2016 elections are going to hit a new level of OMG.


What's wrong with that? He signs up because he, as a Senator, doesn't think he is above the law. Another way to look at it is he will get a full understanding of the workings of Obamacare and can talk about it first hand on the campaign trail. Who knows, he might see it differently then and change his position.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> Yes, we do. One is 7 miles long and a washboard, the other is 5 and not seen a plow or grader in over 6mths.


You've got me beat in distance. However, not in time, no grading in over 12 months for ours. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts

lovethelake said:


> Isn't that really what Obama proposed to do with mandatory voting in this country last week? If he thinks mandatory voting is needed, wouldn't it make sense that mandatory attendance to political rallies be the next logical step? Don't remember hearing Cruz propose any of those ideas, so I do not understand you labeling Cruz a Communist, or at least include Obama in that University too.


I couldn't imagine Americans being mandated to buy health insurance either but under <0 it became a reality. :shock:


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> Yet you prefer someone that has all the information right in front of him and still can't decide what to do. The best he gets from his press secretary is that the president is still formulating his opinion.
> 
> How about a president that is obsessed with becoming an ally with a sworn enemy - all the while Obama is wining and dining Iran, they are shooting straight from the hip stating "death to Americans". How Obama believes Iran will live up to any "deal" made is mind boggling. Iran has done nothing by lie to the world, stalled talks and deadlines, whine about sanctions all the while continuing on their merry way acquiring nuclear weapons.


There is no proof of the president saying that he wants to become allies with Iran. If you kept up you would know that he isn't banking on a deal. He's hoping for one along with 6 of our other allies. If you took the time to read about the "deal" you would know that sanctions would be lifted only after compliance from Iran that they would be very closely monitored in the next 10 years.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, no! NJG, you're not toeing the Dem party line and sticking to the story that Cruz is a hypocrite (your favorite word or at least used to be when I used to read your posts) and nuts for obeying the law he doesn't agree with and wants to repeal.
> 
> Check out what sumpleby and CookieQueen had to say (this thread) explaining why Cruz will sign up for the ACA. It has nothing to do with your wonderful senator from Iowa. I'm surprised you did not know that with all your wisdom. :shock:


The reason Cruz is obeying the law is because he wants, we the tax payers to subsidize his health insurance.

Here's how it happened: Back during the Affordable Care Act negotiations, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proposed an amendment forcing all members of Congress and all of their staffs to enter the exchanges. The purpose of the amendment was to embarrass the Democrats. But in a bit of jujitsu of which they were inordinately proud, Democrats instead embraced the amendment and added it to the law. Here's the relevant text:

The only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are  (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/25/no-congress-isnt-trying-to-exempt-itself-from-obamacare/


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Huckleberry said:


> Dangrktty
> THANK YOU, very well stated. Why do we let Traitors live?


Oh, you must be referring to Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor Obama illegally exchanged for the five, top risk terrorists in Gitmo.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> What's wrong with that? He signs up because he, as a Senator, doesn't think he is above the law. Another way to look at it is he will get a full understanding of the workings of Obamacare and can talk about it first hand on the campaign trail. Who knows, he might see it differently then and change his position.


He signs up because he wants we the tax payers to pay for part of his insurance. It is cheaper in the ACA.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> In your dreams you are a one percenteer, you can't even comprehend what you read.


I comprehend extremely well, you said it, and I must believe it!



NJG said:


> You are wrong 99% of the time KPG ...


reducing me to nothing BUT a one-percenter!

If only you knew me but sadly you don't.


----------



## cindye6556

NJG said:


> He signs up because he wants we the tax payers to pay for part of his insurance. It is cheaper in the ACA.


And excuse me, weren't we paying for it before?


----------



## mojave

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, you must be referring to Bowe Bergdahl, the traitor Obama illegally exchanged for the five, top risk terrorists in Gitmo.


KPG I served in the military. It was pounded into us that we always try to bring our military people home, even if they may have committed treasonous acts. Under the duress of combat, some soldiers make honorable choices. Some make poor choices. Bergdahl was one of us, maybe he made poor choices but he still wore the uniform. Bringing him home was the right thing to do.


----------



## sumpleby

NJG said:


> The reason Cruz is obeying the law is because he wants, we the tax payers to subsidize his health insurance.
> 
> Here's how it happened: Back during the Affordable Care Act negotiations, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proposed an amendment forcing all members of Congress and all of their staffs to enter the exchanges. The purpose of the amendment was to embarrass the Democrats. But in a bit of jujitsu of which they were inordinately proud, Democrats instead embraced the amendment and added it to the law. Here's the relevant text:
> 
> The only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are  (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/25/no-congress-isnt-trying-to-exempt-itself-from-obamacare/


Yes, that what the government can make available to them. BUT, no law prevents them from seeking their own insurance outside of the ACA. Cruz, who rabidly insists that the ACA should be done away with, should have done that.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> The problem is KPG, you tell so many lies, that we just have to constantly correct you. We just keep hoping that someday we might see some progress, although it hasn't happened yet.


The problem is you. The truth is you have not proved I've lied once. You cannot because I have not.

Isn't the expression "Put up or Shut Up?" Sounds reasonable.

btw: are you mandated to post on this thread, correcting or exposing alleged lies? By whom I wonder. (rhetorical question)


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> For those who can imagine and consider supporting Ted Cruz as POTUS, what are your thoughts on his idea of abolishing the IRS?
> 
> When I first heard Ted say to imagine no IRS and a simple flat tax, I was surprised and thought immediately it would be so simple but put a lot of people out of work.
> 
> Now, imaging that thought, I'm not certain I wish no IRS completely. How are those who give to charities to be incentivize to continue doing so, how would we encourage people to buy homes without the mortgage interest deduction? How are companies not being able to reduce their tax burden with their R & D and equipment investments believing they should expand? How can we encourage manufacturing again in the USA without an IRS offering tax incentives? Then, too, why would investors and venture capitalists or angel investors take risks for no reward?
> 
> I'm interested in your ideas.


I would like to see the tax code, all umpteen thousands of pages, declared null and void. Rewrite the tax codes in simple English that all citizens can understand. Perhaps businesses need to do some changing as well. Expansion is still possible without writing everything off. So far those tax incentives for encouraging manufacturing haven't been productive. There are people out there that are willing to take risks. These people are not part of the status quo, and don't necessarily seek the rewards that the old school demand. We've entered a new age and there is a new way of doing business emerging.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> What's wrong with that? He signs up because he, as a Senator, doesn't think he is above the law. Another way to look at it is he will get a full understanding of the workings of Obamacare and can talk about it first hand on the campaign trail. Who knows, he might see it differently then and change his position.


I understand (from those posting here) that his wife lost the ability to insure the family, so the Cruz family will/have signed up for the ACA as mandated for Congress members.

I don't know if there is any truth in those ideas and really don't care. The point is Ted Cruz will follow the law he is regulated by and insure his family.

Not many posting here are willing to 'imagine' or discuss any of Ted's words from his speech. It's all about attacking and insulting Cruz and other posters. Oh, well.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> Because they choose to believe the worst they can possibly find, regardless if it is true or not. That is why they listen to Fox. It tells them what they want to hear, truth doesn't matter.


Oh please. The same can be said about those that listen to the failing network MSNBC.


----------



## galinipper

BrattyPatty said:


> And here she goes, calling people liars again. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> She can't accept the fact that there are more agianst Cruz than are for him.
> So that turns the Liberals into liars.
> Wave the white flag and say goodnight, Gracie.


You could go back to the very first post. KPG was and is impressed with Cruz's introduction speech. She said nothing about being for or against TC.

You can take a thread anywhere you want, and some posters did, do and will continue to, it is the natural evolution of a thread. At least be honest and own what you do. Not every political thread needs to end up crapped on. Remember you will have your favorite politicians throwing their hat or skirt in the mix. And why would you want anyone to wave a white flag and give up on their right to speak ! That's spitting in the face of freedom.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> The reason Cruz is obeying the law is because he wants, we the tax payers to subsidize his health insurance.
> 
> Here's how it happened: Back during the Affordable Care Act negotiations, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proposed an amendment forcing all members of Congress and all of their staffs to enter the exchanges. The purpose of the amendment was to embarrass the Democrats. But in a bit of jujitsu of which they were inordinately proud, Democrats instead embraced the amendment and added it to the law. Here's the relevant text:
> 
> The only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are  (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/25/no-congress-isnt-trying-to-exempt-itself-from-obamacare/


If what you have posted is true, Cruz signing up has ZERO to do with him wanting to receive a subsidy. It has to do with what *the LAW mandates*. Until recently, Cruz did accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have.

You cannot even understand what you post yourself in your rush to tell others what they think, how they act and why. You know NOTHING of the reasons for his decisions even though you tell us you do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cindye6556 said:


> And excuse me, weren't we paying for it before?


I think not. As I understand it, Cruz previously bought private insurance through his wife's employer. Heidi either left her job, or her employer is no longer offering it or Cruz is mandated to go on the ACA because he is a Senator and the deadline has been reached.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> KPG I served in the military. It was pounded into us that we always try to bring our military people home, even if they may have committed treasonous acts. Under the duress of combat, some soldiers make honorable choices. Some make poor choices. Bergdahl was one of us, maybe he made poor choices but he still wore the uniform. Bringing him home was the right thing to do.


I remember mojave and agree to all you have written. However, I didn't say anything contrary. Precisely now, I'm listening to the journalists saying that Bergdahl will be charged in a military tribunal for deserting. IMO he is a traitor and deserves death.

What Obama did in exchange for Bergdahl was illegal, extremely stupid and dangerous by the Commander-in-Chief no less.

What's your opinion?


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> learn the difference between quality and quantity. We always go for quality. We also support our Candidates by free Will, we do not accept being threatened by fines if we do not show up for any of their speeches. Cruz had no choice but to go to Non-Liberty University. He could have never gathered that amount of People in his Home State. After all he is ONLY popular with the nutjobs and his LU audience was forced to attend his well rehearsed talk. Let us interrupt him the next time he speaks and we shall see how flustered he gets.


Hillary Clinton does not equal quality. Please spell out her qualities for me and her accomplishments as well. Both elude me on a daily basis, as they do Hillary herself. Please don't include her latest accomplishments of getting a new hairdo or a new email account.

FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I would like to see the tax code, all umpteen thousands of pages, declared null and void. Rewrite the tax codes in simple English that all citizens can understand. Perhaps businesses need to do some changing as well. Expansion is still possible without writing everything off. So far those tax incentives for encouraging manufacturing haven't been productive. There are people out there that are willing to take risks. These people are not part of the status quo, and don't necessarily seek the rewards that the old school demand. We've entered a new age and there is a new way of doing business emerging.


Hoorah! Someone with an imagination! I'm thinking I like the idea of eliminating the entire IRS Code and allowing a simple collection of income taxes forwarded to the Fed govt.

I'm trying to decide which reductions should be allowed to encourage buz expansion, home ownership, charitable giving, retirement incentives, investing of one SS $ when desired, etc.

With the editing or terminating of the Code, it MUST be simplified and entitlement programs and healthcare reformed and made truly affordable, portable and better without govt intervention, and all rules & regs on all heavily edited or deleted.

There is a lot to think about or "imagine." :-D

I think it's all doable, but we need a strong leader with integrity, strength of character and vision. Is Ted Cruz doing it for you yet Solo?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please. The same can be said about those that listen to the failing network MSNBC.


I'd like to know how NJG knows so much, in fact, everything about everyone?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> You could go back to the very first post. KPG was and is impressed with Cruz's introduction speech. She said nothing about being for or against TC.
> 
> You can take a thread anywhere you want, and some posters did, do and will continue to, it is the natural evolution of a thread. At least be honest and own what you do. Not every political thread needs to end up crapped on. Remember you will have your favorite politicians throwing their hat or skirt in the mix. And why would you want anyone to wave a white flag and give up on their right to speak ! That's spitting in the face of freedom.


 :thumbup: Bravo, Gali. Hey, where are those "facts" that prove there are more against than for Cruz? He gave an announcement PERIOD. Bratty Patty has Cruz tarred, feathered and a call for me to surrender and he's the only one to announce his run to date.

I have not decided on my own opinions but am told by her and others what I think, do and know.

What a bunch of lunatics they are! :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Hillary Clinton does not equal quality. Please spell out her qualities for me and her accomplishments as well. Both elude me on a daily basis, as they do Hillary herself. Please don't include her latest accomplishments of getting a new hairdo or a new email account.
> 
> FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.


Hillary: Didn't Hillary sell coke bottle caps and/or political buttons? I think they were of fair quality. No? (maybe I'm confusing her with the community organizer)

Cruz: Huck said Cruz is a Commie who required mandatory attendance and the collection of fines for his announcement speech. Are you telling me Huck was wrong? Sigh ...


----------



## mojave

knitpresentgifts said:


> I remember mojave and agree to all you have written. However, I didn't say anything contrary. Precisely now, I'm listening to the journalists saying that Bergdahl will be charged in a military tribunal for deserting. IMO he is a traitor and deserves death.
> 
> What Obama did in exchange for Bergdahl was illegal, extremely stupid and dangerous by the Commander-in-Chief no less.
> 
> What's your opinion?


Bergdahl's fate is in the hands of the military tribunal. If grandstanding, attention-seeking politicians keep their hands off and allow the military justice system to work, Bergdahl will get a fair trial. There are some questions as to his mental capacity regarding decision making. If the tribunal finds him guilty of treason and recommends the death sentence, Bergdahl still has the right to appeal as does any American citizen. The thought of any citizen losing the right to appeal a guilty verdict in response to a mob vendetta mentality is extremely abhorrent.

Prisoner exchanges are a fact of warfare. The only way to bring Bergdahl home was via exchange of high value Taliban/Al Qaeda members. In the Revolutionary War, captured British and Colonial soldiers of all ranks were exchanged and afterwards returned to the fighting. During the Cold War, Russian spies who did extreme damage to our military infrastructure were exchanged for American spies captured in the Soviet Union or its sphere of influence. People of many political persuasions wanted Bergdahl rescued as evidenced by communications to their Congressmen and Senators. Obama complied.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> There is no proof of the president saying that he wants to become allies with Iran. If you kept up you would know that he isn't banking on a deal. He's hoping for one along with 6 of our other allies. If you took the time to read about the "deal" you would know that sanctions would be lifted only after compliance from Iran that they would be very closely monitored in the next 10 years.


If he's not banking on a deal, why waste time with Iran? If he can't go in and close the deal, what good is he doing? The only thing I said about sanctions is that Iran was whining about them, not that they were lifted. Comprehension problems again? Just what does Iran "would be very closely monitored in the next 10 years" really mean? Would a team be placed in Iran that will be given access to what is going on in Iran's nuclear development? I doubt it. It will most likely mean that Iran will stall any and all access to their sites - exactly the same tactics they are using now. Nothing new.


----------



## GWPlver

mojave said:


> Bergdahl's fate is in the hands of the military tribunal. If grandstanding, attention-seeking politicians keep their hands off and allow the military justice system to work, Bergdahl will get a fair trial. There are some questions as to his mental capacity regarding decision making. If the tribunal finds him guilty of treason and recommends the death sentence, Bergdahl still has the right to appeal as does any American citizen. The thought of any citizen losing the right to appeal a guilty verdict in response to a mob vendetta mentality is extremely abhorrent.
> 
> Prisoner exchanges are a fact of warfare. The only way to bring Bergdahl home was via exchange of high value Taliban/Al Qaeda members. In the Revolutionary War, captured British and Colonial soldiers of all ranks were exchanged and afterwards returned to the fighting. During the Cold War, Russian spies who did extreme damage to our military infrastructure were exchanged for American spies captured in the Soviet Union or its sphere of influence. People of many political persuasions wanted Bergdahl rescued as evidenced by communications to their Congressmen and Senators. Obama complied.


You are correct - Lt. Colonel BIL and Major nephew-in-law said the same thing. Not sure where "others" got their information.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Bravo, Gali. Hey, where are those "facts" that prove there are more against than for Cruz? He gave an announcement PERIOD. Bratty Patty has Cruz tarred, feathered and a call for me to surrender and he's the only one to announce his run to date.
> 
> I have not decided on my own opinions but am told by her and others what I think, do and know.
> 
> What a bunch of lunatics they are! :-D


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> The problem is you. The truth is you have not proved I've lied once. You cannot because I have not.
> 
> Isn't the expression "Put up or Shut Up?" Sounds reasonable.
> 
> btw: are you mandated to post on this thread, correcting or exposing alleged lies? By whom I wonder. (rhetorical question)


Maybe she didn't, but I did.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> He signs up because he wants we the tax payers to pay for part of his insurance. It is cheaper in the ACA.


So? If that's what the ACA offers the enrollees, then it should apply to Cruz as well.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> If what you have posted is true, Cruz signing up has ZERO to do with him wanting to receive a subsidy. It has to do with what *the LAW mandates*. Until recently, Cruz did accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have.
> 
> You cannot even understand what you post yourself in your rush to tell others what they think, how they act and why. You know NOTHING of the reasons for his decisions even though you tell us you do.


Here we go gain with the condescending "you know nothing" crap.
What does this mean?
" Until recently, Cruz *did* accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have."
Who doesn't understand what they post??? :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> So? If that's what the ACA offers the enrollees, then it should apply to Cruz as well.


So now you agree that the ACA is working since Ted applied for it?


----------



## soloweygirl

mojave said:


> KPG I served in the military. It was pounded into us that we always try to bring our military people home, even if they may have committed treasonous acts. Under the duress of combat, some soldiers make honorable choices. Some make poor choices. Bergdahl was one of us, maybe he made poor choices but he still wore the uniform. Bringing him home was the right thing to do.


No, Bergdahl took OFF the uniform and walked away from his post and responsibilities.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> No, Bergdahl took OFF the uniform and walked away from his post and responsibilities.


He is still an American whether he walked away naked or in uniform.
He was a soldier regardless of what clothing he did or did not wear.
Imagine if we left McCain behind.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> I understand (from those posting here) that his wife lost the ability to insure the family, so the Cruz family will/have signed up for the ACA as mandated for Congress members.
> 
> I don't know if there is any truth in those ideas and really don't care. The point is Ted Cruz will follow the law he is regulated by and insure his family.
> 
> Not many posting here are willing to 'imagine' or discuss any of Ted's words from his speech. It's all about attacking and insulting Cruz and other posters. Oh, well.


Did you really expect anything differently when you started the thread?


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hoorah! Someone with an imagination! I'm thinking I like the idea of eliminating the entire IRS Code and allowing a simple collection of income taxes forwarded to the Fed govt.
> 
> I'm trying to decide which reductions should be allowed to encourage buz expansion, home ownership, charitable giving, retirement incentives, investing of one SS $ when desired, etc.
> 
> With the editing or terminating of the Code, it MUST be simplified and entitlement programs and healthcare reformed and made truly affordable, portable and better without govt invention and all rules & regs on all heavily edited or deleted.
> 
> There is a lot to think about or "imagine." :-D
> 
> I think it's all doable, but we need a strong leader with integrity, strength of character and vision. Is Ted Cruz doing it for you yet Solo?


I still need to hear more from Cruz. I want to know if he will continue and be a strong leader.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hillary: Didn't Hillary sell coke bottle caps and/or political buttons? I think they were of fair quality. No? (maybe I'm confusing her with the community organizer)
> 
> Cruz: Huck said Cruz is a Commie who required mandatory attendance and the collection of fines for his announcement speech. Are you telling me Huck was wrong? Sigh ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty

.


----------



## soloweygirl

mojave said:


> Bergdahl's fate is in the hands of the military tribunal. If grandstanding, attention-seeking politicians keep their hands off and allow the military justice system to work, Bergdahl will get a fair trial. There are some questions as to his mental capacity regarding decision making. If the tribunal finds him guilty of treason and recommends the death sentence, Bergdahl still has the right to appeal as does any American citizen. The thought of any citizen losing the right to appeal a guilty verdict in response to a mob vendetta mentality is extremely abhorrent.
> 
> Prisoner exchanges are a fact of warfare. The only way to bring Bergdahl home was via exchange of high value Taliban/Al Qaeda members. In the Revolutionary War, captured British and Colonial soldiers of all ranks were exchanged and afterwards returned to the fighting. During the Cold War, Russian spies who did extreme damage to our military infrastructure were exchanged for American spies captured in the Soviet Union or its sphere of influence. People of many political persuasions wanted Bergdahl rescued as evidenced by communications to their Congressmen and Senators. Obama complied.


As usual, it is the way Obama complied. By bi-passing Congress. Obama has certain rules and regulations to follow, which he tends to ignore or dismiss. There is no way to know now, but under the circumstances Congress could have gone along with the deal had they been involved in the process.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> So now you agree that the ACA is working since Ted applied for it?


No.


----------



## mojave

soloweygirl said:


> No, Bergdahl took OFF the uniform and walked away from his post and responsibilities.


Have you ever personally been in combat? I have. It is terrifying. If you have not, please do not judge those who have been in the situation. Allow Bergdahl's peers, the military tribunal to judge him.
Nobody knows exactly how he/she will behave until in the combat situation, actually forced to deal with the fear. Prior to being in the situation, we can imagine and hope we will behave with courage and honor. Cold, hard reality of combat proves some will take that path and others for various reasons do not. Bergdahl is entitled to a fair trial. Any claims otherwise are a violation of his civil rights as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Military Code of Justice.


----------



## BrattyPatty

mojave said:


> Have you ever personally been in combat? I have. It is terrifying. If you have not, please do not judge those who have been in the situation. Allow Bergdahl's peers, the military tribunal to judge him.
> Nobody knows exactly how he/she will behave until in the combat situation, actually forced to deal with the fear. Prior to being in the situation, we can imagine and hope we will behave with courage and honor. Cold, hard reality of combat proves some will take that path and others for various reasons do not. Bergdahl is entitled to a fair trial. Any claims otherwise are a violation of his civil rights as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Military Code of Justice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

knitpresentgifts said:


> If what you have posted is true, Cruz signing up has ZERO to do with him wanting to receive a subsidy. It has to do with what *the LAW mandates*. Until recently, Cruz did accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have.


oops - should have read, "Until recently, Cruz did NOT accept any subsidy ... remembered the 'nor' but forgot the 'not.' :-D


----------



## mojave

soloweygirl said:


> As usual, it is the way Obama complied. By bi-passing Congress. Obama has certain rules and regulations to follow, which he tends to ignore or dismiss. There is no way to know now, but under the circumstances Congress could have gone along with the deal had they been involved in the process.


Perhaps, but extremely doubtful due to a need for secrecy to protect the prisoner exchange negotiations. Too many publicity seeking politicians on both sides of the aisle have demonstrated their love of the TV cameras has precedence over security needs.


----------



## Wombatnomore

mojave said:


> Have you ever personally been in combat? I have. It is terrifying. If you have not, please do not judge those who have been in the situation. Allow Bergdahl's peers, the military tribunal to judge him.
> Nobody knows exactly how he/she will behave until in the combat situation, actually forced to deal with the fear. Prior to being in the situation, we can imagine and hope we will behave with courage and honor. Cold, hard reality of combat proves some will take that path and others for various reasons do not. Bergdahl is entitled to a fair trial. Any claims otherwise are a violation of his civil rights as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Military Code of Justice.


Exactly. Well said.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> If what you have posted is true, Cruz signing up has ZERO to do with him wanting to receive a subsidy. It has to do with what *the LAW mandates*. Until recently, Cruz did accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have.
> 
> You cannot even understand what you post yourself in your rush to tell others what they think, how they act and why. You know NOTHING of the reasons for his decisions even though you tell us you do.


You sometimes - rarely- make a statement that might be something we would check out- but you never leave a post without a personal remark (negative) about the person you are answering. I cant remember you ever making a statement about anything without saying at least the first or last sentence with an insult. That is why we don't pay attention to you much if any of the time. No discussion, just flat statement and an insult, all the time.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> Bergdahl's fate is in the hands of the military tribunal. If grandstanding, attention-seeking politicians keep their hands off and allow the military justice system to work, Bergdahl will get a fair trial. There are some questions as to his mental capacity regarding decision making. If the tribunal finds him guilty of treason and recommends the death sentence, Bergdahl still has the right to appeal as does any American citizen. The thought of any citizen losing the right to appeal a guilty verdict in response to a mob vendetta mentality is extremely abhorrent.
> 
> Prisoner exchanges are a fact of warfare. The only way to bring Bergdahl home was via exchange of high value Taliban/Al Qaeda members. In the Revolutionary War, captured British and Colonial soldiers of all ranks were exchanged and afterwards returned to the fighting. During the Cold War, Russian spies who did extreme damage to our military infrastructure were exchanged for American spies captured in the Soviet Union or its sphere of influence. People of many political persuasions wanted Bergdahl rescued as evidenced by communications to their Congressmen and Senators. Obama complied.


I have more faith in our military system than you seem to have. I believe Bergdahl will receive a fair hearing and do not believe there is anything to fear by politicians interfering. Hopefully, by me neglecting to name Obama's possible further interference, is accurate, but if I judged Obama on his record, he will again and has already interfered.

Regardless, I was just driving and heard (radio) that the death penalty will not be on the table for Bergdahl. He can receive life in prison but not the death sentence.

Again, I have no idea why you fear Bowe will not be treated fairly at first or be denied an appeal. I have faith in the Military Justice system.

Obama has delayed Bergdahl's justice for what can only be described as political purposes. Every Military General and advisor and the military Press Secretary, Rear Adm John Kirby*, couldn't explain the lengthy delay. The Army knew long ago, the acts and charges for which Bergdahl is accused, and the military had completed their investigations long ago and knew the charges to be brought against him.

I completely disagree the only way to bring Bergdahl home was by the stupid exchange effectuated by Obama.

Even before the Geneva Convention was in place, America didn't release a prisoner of war BEFORE the conflict ended. Prisoners are not hostages held for such exchanges by America or those who agreed to the GC. The five high profile terrorists in Gitmo that Obama released in an incredibly stupid exchange are not even prisoners-of-war AND the conflict of terror of which they were all involved is on-going and actually accelerating today.

Those five are unlawful/enemy combatants and have NO protections guaranteed under the Geneva Convention.

We have already seen some ill effects from the errors of Obama's decision and interference.

*who was just replaced in Feb 2015 by a civilian to give press briefings for the Defense Dept. I believe this is a first - instead of a uniformed military officer, a civilian will be speaking for the Dept of Defense and the Sec of Defense.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> Perhaps, but extremely doubtful due to a need for secrecy to protect the prisoner exchange negotiations. Too many publicity seeking politicians on both sides of the aisle have demonstrated their love of the TV cameras has precedence over security needs.


The terrorists were not wartime prisoners and have no rights granted to them even under the Geneva Convention. As someone who served, I'm surprised you don't recognize them as the unlawful/enemy combatants they are.

I do wish to thank you again for your military service.


----------



## mojave

knitpresentgifts said:


> The terrorists were not wartime prisoners and have no rights granted to them even under the Geneva Convention. As someone who served, I'm surprised you don't know that already.
> 
> I do wish to thank you again for your service.


You are welcome.
The Geneva Convention is one of those documents serving to remind us of how humanity should choose to behave in our nobler moments. It is in the same class as the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Nit-picking when the standards should be applied reduces us in character as a people and puts us into the same category as the tribesmen in Afghanistan and Pakistan who demonstrably consider life to be of no value. When we choose to always conduct our nation's business in a way which reflects a higher morality, we are truly a people who can be an example for the world.

Adding: Should anyone choose to consider this view as naïve, I will wear the title with pride. I believe in American exceptionalism but it only exists if we continue to make it a reality.


----------



## sumpleby

mojave said:


> You are welcome.
> The Geneva Convention is one of those documents serving to remind us of how humanity should choose to behave in our nobler moments. It is in the same class as the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Nit-picking when the standards should be applied reduces us in character as a people and puts us into the same category as the tribesmen in Afghanistan and Pakistan who demonstrably consider life to be of no value. When we choose to always conduct our nation's business in a way which reflects a higher morality, we are truly a people who can be an example for the world.
> 
> Adding: Should anyone choose to consider this view as naïve, I will wear the title with pride. I believe in American exceptionalism but it only exists if we continue to make it a reality.


Well said.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> You are welcome.
> The Geneva Convention is one of those documents serving to remind us of how humanity should choose to behave in our nobler moments. It is in the same class as the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Nit-picking when the standards should be applied reduces us in character as a people and puts us into the same category as the tribesmen in Afghanistan and Pakistan who demonstrably consider life to be of no value. When we choose to always conduct our nation's business in a way which reflects a higher morality, we are truly a people who can be an example for the world.
> 
> Adding: Should anyone choose to consider this view as naïve, I will wear the title with pride. I believe in American exceptionalism but it only exists if we continue to make it a reality.


Calling an extreme, radical, high profile terrorist, a prisoner of war is beneath you and any military member or American. That's what gets Americans killed - not identifying the threat nor speaking the truth.

The five were enemy combatants PERIOD and the military agrees as does the GC. That's not cherry picking nor nit-picking or word play. It's the facts.

If they were prisoners of war they wouldn't have been placed in Gitmo and yet, would still not be released until whatever conflict of war in which they were involved was complete.

ETA: It is very disturbing to me how you implied that America treats/ed these terrorists much like the tribesmen in Afgah and Pakistan. I have no words to describe how offensive your statements are to me, particularly coming from a former military member.


----------



## mojave

And if I ruled the world, the Geneva Convention protocols would be applied to all enemy combatants whether they be such through declared war or an undeclared guerilla war. It seems we need to politely agree to disagree on this topic.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> And if I ruled the world, the Geneva Convention protocols would be applied to all enemy combatants whether they be such through declared war or an undeclared guerilla war. It seems we need to politely agree to disagree on this topic.


The Geneva Convention protocols do apply to the five and have been applied. Then Obama released them illegally without the approval (or knowledge in advance) of Congress or anyone but himself.

You don't have to agree with me, but your words state you don't agree with the facts and definitions, the military and the protocols of the GC that changed to include combatants following the Sept 11 attack on the USA.


----------



## sumpleby

Are they terrorists? Yes. Are we at war with them? Yes. Ergo, when we capture them, they are prisoners of war.

And here's a thought for you. Why should we lower ourselves to their level? Holding ourselves to the higher standards of the Geneva Convention is something we should strive for.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> Are they terrorists? Yes. Are we at war with them? Yes. Ergo, when we capture them, they are prisoners of war.
> 
> And here's a thought for you. Why should we lower ourselves to their level? Holding ourselves to the higher standards of the Geneva Convention is something we should strive for.


Not true. They are unlawful or enemy combatants. America doesn't nor desires to lower herself to their level.

Have you witnessed how they are treated, live and are cared for in Gitmo?

Here's a question for you. Which country did the USA declare war upon to 'get' those five terrorists or requisition funds for such war?

hint: none - they are not prisoners of war


----------



## sumpleby

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not true. They are unlawful or enemy combatants. America doesn't nor desires to lower herself to their level.
> 
> Have you witnessed how they are treated, live and are cared for in Gitmo?


Oh yes, the entire nation was treated to that info several years back. I was ashamed of my government as Bush & Co. did their best to defend and justify the use of torture. A very low point for us.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not true. They are unlawful or enemy combatants. America doesn't nor desires to lower herself to their level.
> 
> Have you witnessed how they are treated, live and are cared for in Gitmo?


Sure have.


----------



## BrattyPatty

As Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, President Obama did not need an okay from Congress to release those prisoners. If they were prisoners of the Armed Forces as they were, Congress has no say in the matter.
Of course the 113th and now 114th Congress feel that they have the right to do whatever they wish.


----------



## NJG

cindye6556 said:


> And excuse me, weren't we paying for it before?


No, because he had insurance through his wifes employment, and she took a leave of absence, so he had to do it. He didn't have to get it through the ACA, but in order to get us tp pay for part of it he had too. For someone who hates the ACA as much as he does, you would think he would not go through the exchange. It just proves what a hypocrite he is.


----------



## NJG

sumpleby said:


> Yes, that what the government can make available to them. BUT, no law prevents them from seeking their own insurance outside of the ACA. Cruz, who rabidly insists that the ACA should be done away with, should have done that.


I agree/ Just proves what a hypocrite he is.


----------



## lovethelake

Designer1234 said:


> You sometimes - rarely- make a statement that might be something we would check out- but you never leave a post without a personal remark (negative) about the person you are answering. I cant remember you ever making a statement about anything without saying at least the first or last sentence with an insult. That is why we don't pay attention to you much if any of the time. No discussion, just flat statement and an insult, all the time.


So you admit you are part of a cult? The pronoun 'we' implies that you all think, act, react....alike. And I conclude that your comment to KPG is also an attack, much like the type of behavior you are accusing her of doing. Is this a do as I say, not as I do moment for you again?


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> The problem is you. The truth is you have not proved I've lied once. You cannot because I have not.
> 
> Isn't the expression "Put up or Shut Up?" Sounds reasonable.
> 
> btw: are you mandated to post on this thread, correcting or exposing alleged lies? By whom I wonder. (rhetorical question)


Anytime you mention President Obama, there is a good chance it is a lie. Why don't you put up or shut up. Prove the crap you said about his citizenship.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please. The same can be said about those that listen to the failing network MSNBC.


MSNBC doesn't have a proven liar like Bill O'Reilly. If they did that person would be apologizing or would be gone. Fox responds by talking about O'Reillys ratings. That shows how much they value the truth. That is why I just call them Fox. They have no concept of what the news is suppose to be.


----------



## BrattyPatty

lovethelake said:


> So you admit you are part of a cult? The pronoun 'we' implies that you all think, act, react....alike. And I conclude that your comment to KPG is also an attack, much like the type of behavior you are accusing her of doing. Is this a do as I say, not as I do moment for you again?


Go suck on a Congo bar. After all, it is you who said that they are yummy.
Treat yourself! Have something sweet to coat that vinegar drenched heart of yours.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> If what you have posted is true, Cruz signing up has ZERO to do with him wanting to receive a subsidy. It has to do with what *the LAW mandates*. Until recently, Cruz did accept any subsidy nor even receive his coverage through the ACA even though he probably could have.
> 
> You cannot even understand what you post yourself in your rush to tell others what they think, how they act and why. You know NOTHING of the reasons for his decisions even though you tell us you do.


The law mandates he have insurance, it does not mandate it be through the ACA. He could go directly to what ever insurance company he wants to and not through the exchange, so again you are the one who does not know what you are talking about. He wants his employer to pay part of the bill as is his right, I am not disputing that. Any person who can get insurance through their employer and get a discount will probably do that. But I think it is time for him to shut up about wanting to take insurance away from millions of people by repealing the ACA while at the same time taking advantage of it.


----------



## BrattyPatty

NJG said:


> The law mandates he have insurance, it does not mandate it be through the ACA. He could go directly to what ever insurance company he wants to and not through the exchange, so again you are the one who does not know what you are talking about. He wants his employer to pay part of the bill as is his right, I am not disputing that. Any person who can get insurance through their employer and get a discount will probably do that. But I think it is time for him to shut up about wanting to take insurance away from millions of people by repealing the ACA while at the same time taking advantage of it.


Which is exactly I can't imagine Ted Cruz as president without laughing hard.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd like to know how NJG knows so much, in fact, everything about everyone?


I evidently read and pay attention a lot more than you do, and get my information from places other than just conservative news sights. I am able to hear things and check things out to make sure I am getting the TRUE facts. You should try that.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think not. As I understand it, Cruz previously bought private insurance through his wife's employer. Heidi either left her job, or her employer is no longer offering it or Cruz is mandated to go on the ACA because he is a Senator and the deadline has been reached.


His wife bought the insurance through her employer and she has taken a leave of absence so they had to get insurance elsewhere. He is not mandated to go through the ACA. He is mandated to have insurance from wherever he wants to get it. If he wants his employer to cover part of his insurance, he has to get it through the ACA.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> Hillary Clinton does not equal quality. Please spell out her qualities for me and her accomplishments as well. Both elude me on a daily basis, as they do Hillary herself. Please don't include her latest accomplishments of getting a new hairdo or a new email account.
> 
> FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.


Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> So? If that's what the ACA offers the enrollees, then it should apply to Cruz as well.


Absolutely, it is his right to get his insurance through his employer, like anyone else can. It is just very hypocritical to be constantly saying repeal and at the same time taking advantage of it yourself.


----------



## NJG

mojave said:


> Have you ever personally been in combat? I have. It is terrifying. If you have not, please do not judge those who have been in the situation. Allow Bergdahl's peers, the military tribunal to judge him.
> Nobody knows exactly how he/she will behave until in the combat situation, actually forced to deal with the fear. Prior to being in the situation, we can imagine and hope we will behave with courage and honor. Cold, hard reality of combat proves some will take that path and others for various reasons do not. Bergdahl is entitled to a fair trial. Any claims otherwise are a violation of his civil rights as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Military Code of Justice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## mojave

NJG said:


> Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?


What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


----------



## WindingRoad

mojave said:


> What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


Takes ba**s and that's what we need in this government. IMHO


----------



## sumpleby

mojave said:


> What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


There is a vast difference between a welcoming, supportive audience and a captive one.


----------



## MarilynKnits

NJG said:


> Originally they were going to keep what they had. But then wonderful C Grassley, my wonderful senator from Iowa, introduced a bill to make congress use the ACA also, because he was sure the democrats would say no way, not us, but instead, they said good idea Charlie!!!


Yup, and do you know whether it is cheaper for us taxpayers than the Lamborghini plan they had all the prior years?


----------



## NJG

BrattyPatty said:


> Which is exactly I can't imagine Ted Cruz as president without laughing hard.


He has a snowballs chance in he!! of becoming president. It will be funny when his fellow republicans pick him to pieces in the debate circus, if he makes it that long.


----------



## sumpleby

NJG said:


> He has a snowballs chance in he!! of becoming president. It will be funny when his fellow republicans pick him to pieces in the debate circus, if he makes it that long.


They may not have to. It is only a matter of time before he has a Romney moment that will be recorded and broadcast.


----------



## NJG

MarilynKnits said:


> Yup, and do you know whether it is cheaper for us taxpayers than the Lamborghini plan they had all the prior years?


I have not heard, but I am guessing it is less expensive under the ACA.


----------



## MarilynKnits

lovethelake said:


> So you admit you are part of a cult? The pronoun 'we' implies that you all think, act, react....alike. And I conclude that your comment to KPG is also an attack, much like the type of behavior you are accusing her of doing. Is this a do as I say, not as I do moment for you again?


You accuse someone of being part of a cult when you walk in lock step with the Obama bashers and have a closed mind to any ideas that don't fit in your preconceived notions? And you who are part of the coven that always looks for ways to twist whatever Designer says to try to demean her are not behaving like part of a cult? You are not behaving like a nice person and your buddy does insult almost everybody except all you sycophants.


----------



## MarilynKnits

NJG said:


> He has a snowballs chance in he!! of becoming president. It will be funny when his fellow republicans pick him to pieces in the debate circus, if he makes it that long.


Juxtapose what you just said to Windy's remark as to what it takes to be President and ROFLOL.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

MarilynKnits said:


> You accuse someone of being part of a cult when you walk in lock step with the Obama bashers and have a closed mind to any ideas that don't fit in your preconceived notions? And you who are part of the coven that always looks for ways to twist whatever Designer says to try to demean her are not behaving like part of a cult? You are not behaving like a nice person and your buddy does insult almost everybody except all you sycophants.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think not. As I understand it, Cruz previously bought private insurance through his wife's employer. Heidi either left her job, or her employer is no longer offering it or Cruz is mandated to go on the ACA because he is a Senator and the deadline has been reached.


Heidi Cruz resigned from Goldman Sachs once Ted decided to run. She was insuring the family thru her job. So that is the reason the family will be using ACA. But there is a sickening irony to all of this.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

I am waiting to see who KPG will 'imagine' as the next president after Ted goes down in flames. Will she start a new thread for each one of them or call her next thread 'Imagine which of the remaining GOP candidates will be the next president' It's been a real trip seeing you expose yourself over and over again as the buffoon that you are. Good old solowey is your only cheerleader. So sad but funny too. Thanks for the laughs and thanks for the intelligent posts from the rest of the posters. I guess KPG did the best she could but she just doesn't have 'it' and never will. Look forward to your next thread dear. :XD:


----------



## WindingRoad

MarilynKnits said:


> Yup, and do you know whether it is cheaper for us taxpayers than the Lamborghini plan they had all the prior years?


They might sign up but wait til they use it. Then we'll see. As someone so elegantly put it. We have to pass ( sic use) it to know what's in it.


----------



## BrattyPatty

WindingRoad said:


> They might sign up but wait til they use it. Then we'll see. As someone so elegantly put it. We have to pass ( sic use) it to know what's in it.


It's been up and running for a year and it is working. He made a good choice.
I am sure like anybody else, he will pick what best suits his family and wallet.


----------



## WindingRoad

BrattyPatty said:


> It's been up and running for a year and it is working. He made a good choice.


Then why haven't all 40 Million signed up yet?


----------



## BrattyPatty

WindingRoad said:


> Then why haven't all 40 Million signed up yet?


Ask them.


----------



## WindingRoad

BrattyPatty said:


> Ask them.


I don't need to. Obviously it's not working. It can't work for someone if they don't have it. And can't afford it.

Is this how it's gonna "work"

http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-tax-subsidies-result-in-tax-bill-221940588.html;_ylt=A0LEVrziZxNVIpAA4iYnnIlQ


----------



## NJG

WindingRoad said:


> Then why haven't all 40 Million signed up yet?


Because there are people on the right who would rather go uninsured than get Obamacare which republicans have led them to believe is evil. Just imagine that. All of you on the right have helped to keep people uninsured. Are you proud of yourselves. Wonder how many of them will die because of undiagnosed illness.


----------



## susanmos2000

joeysomma said:


> How many will die because 0bamacare is too expensive and the deductibles are to high and it does not cover the doctors or the medicine that the person needs to survive?
> 
> 0bamacare is insurance, expensive insurance. It is NOT health care. There is no guarantee a person that has 0bamacare will get adequate health care if any health care!


Then Cruz must be a glutton for punishment as he can't wait to sign on the dotted line. :roll:


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> How many will die because 0bamacare is too expensive and the deductibles are to high and it does not cover the doctors or the medicine that the person needs to survive?
> 
> 0bamacare is insurance, expensive insurance. It is NOT health care. There is no guarantee a person that has 0bamacare will get adequate health care if any health care!


Like I said, you will do anything to scare people away from trying to get insurance. Just like on Fox when it first started, one horror story after another, and all were debunked, but by then they were out there and those who choose to believe the worst, never let go of the lies. I don't believe any of you at this point without way more proof than you are giving. I could repeat what you just said only in the reverse and it would make just as much sense. It is the same with all the lies about the president. No matter how many times something is debunked, you repeat it as the truth. Do you still believe Obama didn't graduate from Columbia even after seeing the Columbia web site saying he did?


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> How many will die because 0bamacare is too expensive and the deductibles are to high and it does not cover the doctors or the medicine that the person needs to survive?
> 
> 0bamacare is insurance, expensive insurance. It is NOT health care. There is no guarantee a person that has 0bamacare will get adequate health care if any health care!


oh, why bother....we have danced to this tune before many, many, many, times. My feet hurt. I'm tired of it. Your head is thick, I am tired of it. Bye!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> MSNBC doesn't have a proven liar like Bill O'Reilly. If they did that person would be apologizing or would be gone. Fox responds by talking about O'Reillys ratings. That shows how much they value the truth. That is why I just call them Fox. They have no concept of what the news is suppose to be.


http://freebeacon.com/culture/all-apologies/

this from today: 




*MSNBC Realized in Minutes They Had to Apologize for Guests Jaw-Dropping Attack on Ted Cruz, Country Music*
Mar. 25, 2015 6:24
Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, of Texas, is now facing the reality that every word he says from now until hes either president or a failed candidate will be picked apart by his critics  even to the point of absurdity. Thats politics.

An MSNBC guest panelist delivered the latest example on Wednesday.

Cruz revealed in a recent interview on CBS This Morning that his music preferences changed after the deadly 9/11 terrorist attacks. He said the way country music collectively responded to the tragedy really resonated with him, so hes been listening to country ever since 2001.

Ebony.com senior editor Jamilah Lemieux apparently thinks theres a more insidious meaning behind Cruzs taste in music.
Nothing says lets go kill some Muslims like country music, Lemieux said. She then added sarcastically, Fresh from Lynchburg, Virginia, so he obviously doesnt want to be a polarizing candidate, he wants to bring people together. Thats absurd.

No one else on the show, including Now With Alex Wagner fill-in host Ari Melber, Salon editor-at-large Joan Walsh and former RNC Chairman Michael Steele, immediately spoke up to challenge her for linking country music to killing Muslims  in fact, Walsh and another person could be heard laughing.

Walsh went on to call Cruz an idiot for pandering to his audience.

However, later in the show, *Melber issued an on-air apology,* according to Mediaite.

We have a programming note. A few minutes ago on this show, a guest made a comment about country music. That comment was not appropriate, and we want to be clear this network does not condone it, he said.

*MSNBC is often so very sorry.*

You know the old saying: Recommending slave punishments for Republicans, praising hurricanes and mocking babies might land you in trouble.

The latest my bad: Sort of a non-committal one by The Cycles Touré for tweeting the power of whiteness benefitted Holocaust survivors in the U.S.

In an attempt to comment on racism in post World War II America, I used a shorthand that was insensitive and wrong.

Its just the latest in a long-standing pattern for the liberal network: They cant stop messing up, but theyre always penitent afterwards.

Sometimes, theyre too late. Former host *Martin Bashir gave an abject apology* for his incendiary remarks about Sarah Palin last November, but he was *still out of a job a few weeks later.*

Ed Schultz, after calling radio host Laura Ingraham a right-wing slut on his radio show in 2011, briefly took himself *off the air and expressed deep contrition,* and he kept his position.

Former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romneys campaign, and even his family, have brought about a host of infamous moments for MSNBCs lineup that led to on-air regrets.

*Touré previously had to say sorry* for using the N-word during a segment on The Cycle implying Romney used racially coded terms against President Obama in 2012.

Chris Matthews was so pleased Romney lost, he expressed gratitude the night of the election for Superstorm Sandy coming in and potentially giving Obamas numbers a boost. He *sorrowfully denounced his terrible remarks* the following evening.

Few could forget weekend host *Melissa Harris-Perry tearfully apologizing* for a particularly embarrassing segment late last year, when her panelists made fun of a photo showing Romneys adopted black grandson with his white family members.

Yes, the networks acute racial sensitivity can backfire. Way Too Early host *Thomas Roberts issued an Im sorry on behalf of MSNBC* for playing to stereotypes against Mexicans during a Cinco de Mayo segment earlier this month.

Even *MSNBCs president, Phil Griffin, had to issue a formal apology * read out by Al Sharpton for a tweet from the official network account stating maybe the right wing will hate a Cheerios ad featuring a bi-racial family.

Well wait with bated breath for the next mistake and the inevitable contrition afterwards.

===========
That's OK, NJG


NJG said:


> " ... you obviously are not smart enough to comprehend what it said


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> http://freebeacon.com/culture/all-apologies/
> 
> this from today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MSNBC Realized in Minutes They Had to Apologize for Guests Jaw-Dropping Attack on Ted Cruz, Country Music*
> Mar. 25, 2015 6:24
> Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, of Texas, is now facing the reality that every word he says from now until hes either president or a failed candidate will be picked apart by his critics  even to the point of absurdity. Thats politics.
> 
> An MSNBC guest panelist delivered the latest example on Wednesday.
> 
> Cruz revealed in a recent interview on CBS This Morning that his music preferences changed after the deadly 9/11 terrorist attacks. He said the way country music collectively responded to the tragedy really resonated with him, so hes been listening to country ever since 2001.
> 
> Ebony.com senior editor Jamilah Lemieux apparently thinks theres a more insidious meaning behind Cruzs taste in music.
> Nothing says lets go kill some Muslims like country music, Lemieux said. She then added sarcastically, Fresh from Lynchburg, Virginia, so he obviously doesnt want to be a polarizing candidate, he wants to bring people together. Thats absurd.
> 
> No one else on the show, including Now With Alex Wagner fill-in host Ari Melber, Salon editor-at-large Joan Walsh and former RNC Chairman Michael Steele, immediately spoke up to challenge her for linking country music to killing Muslims  in fact, Walsh and another person could be heard laughing.
> 
> Walsh went on to call Cruz an idiot for pandering to his audience.
> 
> However, later in the show, *Melber issued an on-air apology,* according to Mediaite.
> 
> We have a programming note. A few minutes ago on this show, a guest made a comment about country music. That comment was not appropriate, and we want to be clear this network does not condone it, he said.
> 
> *MSNBC is often so very sorry.*
> 
> You know the old saying: Recommending slave punishments for Republicans, praising hurricanes and mocking babies might land you in trouble.
> 
> The latest my bad: Sort of a non-committal one by The Cycles Touré for tweeting the power of whiteness benefitted Holocaust survivors in the U.S.
> 
> In an attempt to comment on racism in post World War II America, I used a shorthand that was insensitive and wrong.
> 
> Its just the latest in a long-standing pattern for the liberal network: They cant stop messing up, but theyre always penitent afterwards.
> 
> Sometimes, theyre too late. Former host *Martin Bashir gave an abject apology* for his incendiary remarks about Sarah Palin last November, but he was *still out of a job a few weeks later.*
> 
> Ed Schultz, after calling radio host Laura Ingraham a right-wing slut on his radio show in 2011, briefly took himself *off the air and expressed deep contrition,* and he kept his position.
> 
> Former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romneys campaign, and even his family, have brought about a host of infamous moments for MSNBCs lineup that led to on-air regrets.
> 
> *Touré previously had to say sorry* for using the N-word during a segment on The Cycle implying Romney used racially coded terms against President Obama in 2012.
> 
> Chris Matthews was so pleased Romney lost, he expressed gratitude the night of the election for Superstorm Sandy coming in and potentially giving Obamas numbers a boost. He *sorrowfully denounced his terrible remarks* the following evening.
> 
> Few could forget weekend host *Melissa Harris-Perry tearfully apologizing* for a particularly embarrassing segment late last year, when her panelists made fun of a photo showing Romneys adopted black grandson with his white family members.
> 
> Yes, the networks acute racial sensitivity can backfire. Way Too Early host *Thomas Roberts issued an Im sorry on behalf of MSNBC* for playing to stereotypes against Mexicans during a Cinco de Mayo segment earlier this month.
> 
> Even *MSNBCs president, Phil Griffin, had to issue a formal apology * read out by Al Sharpton for a tweet from the official network account stating maybe the right wing will hate a Cheerios ad featuring a bi-racial family.
> 
> Well wait with bated breath for the next mistake and the inevitable contrition afterwards.


I'll bet you will! Don't lose your remote.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

BrattyPatty said:


> I'll bet you will! Don't lose your remote.


The last sentence was not my words. Don't lose your brain and stress over your mistake.


----------



## NJG

Watching Jimmy Fallon. He was talking about Cruz signing up for Obamacare despite saying he wanted to repeal every word. Jimmy said it was a good thing he signed up as he just went to the hospital in hypocritical condition.


----------



## BrattyPatty

NJG said:


> Watching Jimmy Fallon. He was talking about Cruz signing up for Obamacare despite saying he wanted to repeal every word. Jimmy said it was a good thing he signed up as he just went to the hospital in hypocritical condition.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## NJG

The thing is they apologize, Fox seldom does. Do you want me to list a few of Fox mistakes? There are many many more than you will find on MSNBC.
This is just a start.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/feb/26/fact-checks-behind-daily-shows-50-fox-news-lies/

Fox, anchor Shannon Bream said that a persons skin tone can indicate whether they are a bad guy or not. Then they have the balls to say Obama has made race relations worse.

Fox deceitfully edits video to falsely place Al Sharpton at scene of an anti cop protest.

Black viewers comprise 1% of Fox "Super Diverse Audience."


----------



## damemary

sumpleby said:


> Are they terrorists? Yes. Are we at war with them? Yes. Ergo, when we capture them, they are prisoners of war.
> 
> And here's a thought for you. Why should we lower ourselves to their level? Holding ourselves to the higher standards of the Geneva Convention is something we should strive for.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> No, because he had insurance through his wifes employment, and she took a leave of absence, so he had to do it. He didn't have to get it through the ACA, but in order to get us tp pay for part of it he had too. For someone who hates the ACA as much as he does, you would think he would not go through the exchange. It just proves what a hypocrite he is.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

mojave said:


> What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

sumpleby said:


> There is a vast difference between a welcoming, supportive audience and a captive one.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am waiting to see who KPG will 'imagine' as the next president after Ted goes down in flames. Will she start a new thread for each one of them or call her next thread 'Imagine which of the remaining GOP candidates will be the next president' It's been a real trip seeing you expose yourself over and over again as the buffoon that you are. Good old solowey is your only cheerleader. So sad but funny too. Thanks for the laughs and thanks for the intelligent posts from the rest of the posters. I guess KPG did the best she could but she just doesn't have 'it' and never will. Look forward to your next thread dear. :XD:


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> Then Cruz must be a glutton for punishment as he can't wait to sign on the dotted line. :roll:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> Watching Jimmy Fallon. He was talking about Cruz signing up for Obamacare despite saying he wanted to repeal every word. Jimmy said it was a good thing he signed up as he just went to the hospital in hypocritical condition.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Anytime you mention President Obama, there is a good chance it is a lie. Why don't you put up or shut up. Prove the crap you said about his citizenship.





NJG said:


> Originally they (Cruz family) were going to keep what they had. But then wonderful C Grassley, my wonderful senator from Iowa, introduced a bill * to make congress use the ACA also, *because he was sure the democrats would say no way, not us, but instead, they said good idea Charlie!!!


Grassleys amendment passed and thereby all members of Congress (Cruz) and most congressional staff MUST enter the exchanges to secure their health insurance *without* exemptions (subsidies).



NJG said:


> Here's how it happened: Back during the Affordable Care Act negotiations, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) proposed an amendment *forcing all members of Congress* and all of their staffs to enter the exchanges. Democrats instead embraced the amendment and added it to the law. Here's the relevant text:
> 
> The only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress  as a Member of Congress shall be health plans that are  (I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or (II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/04/25/no-congress-isnt-trying-to-exe...


Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) said that he would not take a subsidy for Obamacare on Tuesdays Mark Levin Show. (followed his interview with CNN where he made many of the same statements).

_Cruz said that his family was previously covered under his wifes insurance, but since shes joining his campaign full-time, without pay or benefits, theyre likely to go under his employers healthcare, which, in his case would be going on the federal healthcare exchange.

He added, *I am not going to take any federal subsidy for this, * and accused CNN of playing gotcha over him complying with the law.

Cruz also stated that there arent very many private options for health insurance because of Obamacare and that he would not take a special exemption as a member of Congress because we shouldnt treat members of Congress any better than the American people are treated._

KPGs comment:
Grassleys (R) amendment passed into law requiring that all Congress and most Congressional staff members had to go on the exchanges - and those Fed employees were to live with Obamacare the way it was written with NO subsidies. Congressional staff employees complained as they couldnt afford the mandated ACA healthcare on their salaries w/out subsidies.

So Obama created an illegal exemption to give the subsidies. Meanwhile Cruz has explicitly said  he will not take that illegal exemption (will not accept a subsidy).

Now, again, the ACA is in front of the Supreme Court for a decision on the illegal subsidies and to see if the law stands as written.

from Levin interview: Texas has no state exchange - Cruz is from Texas, so therefore no subsidies available through him signing up through an exchange.

>>>Exactly opposite of your lies about him.



NJG said:


> He signs up because he wants we the tax payers to pay for part of his insurance.


Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) said that he would not take a subsidy for Obamacare.
>>>Cruzs words are exactly opposite of the lie you repeat about him.



NJG said:


> The reason Cruz is obeying the law is because he wants, we the tax payers to subsidize his health insurance.


>>>Cruzs words are exactly opposite of the lie you repeat about him.



NJG said:


> He didn't have to get it through the ACA, but in order to get us tp pay for part of it he had too. For someone who hates the ACA as much as he does, you would think he would not go through the exchange. It just proves what a hypocrite he is.


>>>Cruzs words are exactly opposite of the lie you repeat about him.



NJG said:


> But I think it is time for him to shut up about wanting to take insurance away from millions of people by repealing the ACA while at the same time taking advantage of it.


>>>Cruzs words are exactly opposite of the lie you repeat about him. There is no advantage when paying for his premiums mandated upon him.

In your own words back atcha:


NJG said:


> So again you are the one who does not know what you are talking about.
> I evidently read and pay attention a lot more than you do, and get my information from places other than just conservative news sights. I am able to hear things and check things out to make sure I am getting the TRUE facts. You should try that.


May I suggest you stop telling others what they think, say and do and learn to speak the truth and listen. You wont look quite the fool.

When it comes to insulting me and telling me about me, you have a failed percentage of accuracy.

I put up so you can now shut up.

P.S. In America the prosecutor (you) is responsible for proving her case, not the defendant (me). So dont attempt to tell I cant comprehend what I read, lie so much I must be corrected by you and am wrong 99% of the time. You have never proven your case because its false and fails.

I just proved another of mine.

I will not take the time to prove you wrong again. You're not worth my time and no one should argue against a lack of logic, lies or idiocy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

lovethelake said:


> So you admit you are part of a cult? The pronoun 'we' implies that you all think, act, react....alike. And I conclude that your comment to KPG is also an attack, much like the type of behavior you are accusing her of doing. Is this a do as I say, not as I do moment for you again?


LTL, don't bother defending me, although I appreciate you doing so, against her idiocy and lies. Her words about me are complete nonsense.

We now know she reads my every post and the Denim thread as she corrected herself and should now be able to distinguish between a goose and a swan. :-D (her avatar description has changed since I pointed out her error)


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Anytime you mention President Obama, there is a good chance it is a lie. Why don't you put up or shut up. Prove the crap you said about his citizenship.


You prove me a liar; the responsibility to prove your accusation falls on you.


----------



## Wombatnomore

mojave said:


> You are welcome.
> The Geneva Convention is one of those documents serving to remind us of how humanity should choose to behave in our nobler moments. It is in the same class as the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution. Nit-picking when the standards should be applied reduces us in character as a people and puts us into the same category as the tribesmen in Afghanistan and Pakistan who demonstrably consider life to be of no value. When we choose to always conduct our nation's business in a way which reflects a higher morality, we are truly a people who can be an example for the world.
> 
> Adding: Should anyone choose to consider this view as naïve, I will wear the title with pride. I believe in American exceptionalism but it only exists if we continue to make it a reality.


Bravo! So well said.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


You think Liberty U was a hostile audience for his announcement speech?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

You proved nothing KPG. You are the liar on this thread. Your only 'sources' are your extreme right wing rag sheets that you believe as gospel. You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the head. If you weren't so nasty I would pity you for being a fool but you deserve no kindness. You are a pit bull who goes right for the jugular over and over again and you are blind to your own idiocy. You are only letting yourself look more and more foolish the more you post your bombastic lies and you are giving aid and comfort to those on the left because you show the distinct difference between those on the right from those on the left. I guess I should thank you for that. We win out in every confrontation with you. You will never win anyone with an ounce of common sense to to your side. You are raging on as if you actually had some important message to convey and actually you have nothing to offer at all.

These are your own words below trying in desperation to prove what? That you are a fool to believe all the right wing propaganda.

You prove me a liar; the responsibility to prove your accusation falls on you. KPG

LTL, don't bother defending me, although I appreciate you doing so, against her idiocy and lies. Her words about me are complete nonsense. KPG

May I suggest you stop telling others what they think, say and do and learn to speak the truth and listen. You wont look quite the fool.

When it comes to insulting me and telling me about me, you have a failed percentage of accuracy. 

I put up so you can now shut up.

P.S. In America the prosecutor (you) is responsible for proving her case, not the defendant (me). So dont attempt to tell I cant comprehend what I read, lie so much I must be corrected by you and am wrong 99% of the time. You have never proven your case because its false and fails.

I just proved another of mine. 

I will not take the time to prove you wrong again. You're not worth my time and no one should argue against a lack of logic, lies or idiocy. KPG


----------



## knitpresentgifts

WindingRoad said:


> Takes ba**s and that's what we need in this government. IMHO


Liberty U is strongly conservative, often Republican, and young enough and with enough numbers of Christians and Evangelicals who could become campaign volunteers and voters for Cruz. Those in attendance could help sway VA voters who are undecided too.

I don't think it took much to decide to announce there; I think it was extremely smart to do so.


----------



## damemary

knitpresentgifts said:


> You think Liberty U was a hostile audience for his announcement speech?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

WindingRoad said:


> They might sign up but wait til they use it. Then we'll see. As someone so elegantly put it. We have to pass ( sic use) it to know what's in it.


I'm hoping the SCOTUS strikes the exemptions and rules the law stands as written. If so, it fails and vanishes. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore

NJG said:


> He has a snowballs chance in he!! of becoming president. It will be funny when his fellow republicans pick him to pieces in the debate circus, if he makes it that long.


Make that 'his fellow repelicans pick him to pieces...'


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> How many will die because 0bamacare is too expensive and the deductibles are to high and it does not cover the doctors or the medicine that the person needs to survive?
> 
> 0bamacare is insurance, expensive insurance. It is NOT health care. There is no guarantee a person that has 0bamacare will get adequate health care if any health care!


 :thumbup: Precisely why Cruz wants it repealed, every.single.word.

AND suitable, portable, affordable and patient-doctor insurance in its place.


----------



## Wombatnomore

MarilynKnits said:


> You accuse someone of being part of a cult when you walk in lock step with the Obama bashers and have a closed mind to any ideas that don't fit in your preconceived notions? And you who are part of the coven that always looks for ways to twist whatever Designer says to try to demean her are not behaving like part of a cult? You are not behaving like a nice person and your buddy does insult almost everybody except all you sycophants.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Wombatnomore said:


> Make that 'his fellow repelicans pick him to pieces...'


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Precisely why Cruz wants it repealed, every.single.word.
> 
> AND suitable, portable, affordable and patient-doctor insurance in its place.


More of your nonsense. You are too funny. Why didn't Cruz go out and buy insurance on his own. He was not obligated to sign up for ACA. If he believes it is so bad he must not care about the welfare of his wife and kids to purchase such terrible coverage. Either that or he is really stupid. Which is it?

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Precisely why Cruz wants it repealed, every.single.word.
> 
> AND suitable, portable, affordable and patient-doctor insurance in its place.


You and joey don't know the first thing about ACA. You make up lies as you go. I do know all about ACA and I am covered. Even without a reduction in my premium what I pay is very competitive. I have all my same doctors and freedom to go where I chose. Excellent, affordable coverage through Blue Cross. Thank you President Obama!


----------



## Wombatnomore

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You and joey don't know the first thing about ACA. I do and I am covered. Even without a reduction in my premium what I pay is very competitive. I have all my same doctors and freedom to go where I chose. Excellent, affordable coverage through Blue Cross. Thank you President Obama!


 :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Good night wombat. It's been fun!


----------



## mojave

knitpresentgifts said:


> You think Liberty U was a hostile audience for his announcement speech?


You missed reading a message somewhere. Here is the timeline. 
*soloweygirl* wrote: FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.
*NJG* wrote: Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?
*Mojave* wrote: What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


----------



## NJG

KPG---Cruz will not take a subsidy because he is not eligible for one even if he wanted one, because he makes too much money. What he is eligible for, like any employee is for his employer to pay a portion of his insurance. He is not getting any special exemption or anything that any other employee is not eligible for from their employer. When I was working, my employer paid a portion of my insurance. If he wants that assistance he has to go through Obamacare. I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand. The people who have jobs and are covered by their employer are still receiving their same insurance. The whole country did not switch to Obamacare, but because of Grassley, congress has to. 
Yes he is paying for his share of the insurance, but his employer is paying a portion as they always have. Cruz has a very clever way of saying things to make you believe he is so righteous and you are falling for it. 
He is still a hypocrite for wanting to take the ACA away from everyone and at the same time using it himself. He could get his insurance directly from BCBS or whomever he wants, but his employer would not pay a portion of it if he did. Yes, he is required to have insurance but he will pay it all himself if he doesn't go through the ACA. When I was working , I could have done the same thing, but then my employer wouldn't have paid a portion of it. 
The only thing you proved is that you believe all the clever ways Cruz has of saying things to make them sound different than they really are, nothing else. Yes you are still wrong and you put up nothing new, just the same old crap.


----------



## damemary

Please explain why Cruz is so anxious to signup for Obamacare.



knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Precisely why Cruz wants it repealed, every.single.word.
> 
> AND suitable, portable, affordable and patient-doctor insurance in its place.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> You prove me a liar; the responsibility to prove your accusation falls on you.


I did prove you a liar with the links I posted. You just don't know the truth when it hits you in the face. Now it is your responsibility to prove you are right. I already told you that. You do not comprehend what you have read.


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> More of your nonsense. You are too funny. Why didn't Cruz go out and buy insurance on his own. He was not obligated to sign up for ACA. If he believes it is so bad he must not care about the welfare of his wife and kids to purchase such terrible coverage. Either that or he is really stupid. Which is it?
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Presidential candidacy of Ted Cruz is showing how difficult it is to avoid pitfalls. Clunk.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> It may work for you, that is wonderful! I have interviewed many clients that have 0bamacare. Of those that have subsidies most have to pay back on their taxes, one as much as $6,000. Only 2 have received more premium tax credit. I did have one that was ignorant of having to have insurance and was mad at me when he had to pay more than $400 in the shared responsibility payment. All I do is calculate the taxes. They also tell me of their lack of benefits, received on their health care. Only one person was happy she had it, since she had a major health crisis. She had paid over $10,000 in premiums, and a $7,000 deductible before receiving any health benefit. How many will have that amount of money to pay for health insurance.


So Joey will you answer the question I asked you? Do you still believe President Obama didn't graduate from Columbia even after reading what was on Columbia's website?


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You and joey don't know the first thing about ACA. You make up lies as you go. I do know all about ACA and I am covered. Even without a reduction in my premium what I pay is very competitive. I have all my same doctors and freedom to go where I chose. Excellent, affordable coverage through Blue Cross. Thank you President Obama!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: My family benefits too. All the complaints I've researched have turned out to be bogus. Obamacare seems like a winner.


----------



## damemary

New topic: See Successes of President Barack Obama administration. Also intended as a place to discuss challenges presented. 

Monitored closely.


----------



## susanmos2000

KPG's post:

" Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) said that he would not take a subsidy for Obamacare on Tuesdays Mark Levin Show. (followed his interview with CNN where he made many of the same statements).

Cruz said that his family was previously covered under his wifes insurance, but since shes joining his campaign full-time, without pay or benefits, theyre likely to go under his employers healthcare, which, in his case would be going on the federal healthcare exchange.

He added, I am not going to take any federal subsidy for this, and accused CNN of playing gotcha over him complying with the law.

Cruz also stated that there arent very many private options for health insurance because of Obamacare and that he would not take a special exemption as a member of Congress because we shouldnt treat members of Congress any better than the American people are treated.

KPGs comment:
Grassleys (R) amendment passed into law requiring that all Congress and most Congressional staff members had to go on the exchanges - and those Fed employees were to live with Obamacare the way it was written with NO subsidies. Congressional staff employees complained as they couldnt afford the mandated ACA healthcare on their salaries w/out subsidies.

So Obama created an illegal exemption to give the subsidies. Meanwhile Cruz has explicitly said he will not take that illegal exemption (will not accept a subsidy).

Now, again, the ACA is in front of the Supreme Court for a decision on the illegal subsidies and to see if the law stands as written.

from Levin interview: Texas has no state exchange - Cruz is from Texas, so therefore no subsidies available through him signing up through an exchange. 

>>>Exactly opposite of your lies about him."

Just so you know, KPG, whether Texas does or does not have an exchange makes no difference--Cruz will get his ACA coverage through the Washington exchange (like all Senators), complete with subsidies. Levin's a dope if he doesn't know this, and it seems you are too.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> You prove me a liar; the responsibility to prove your accusation falls on you.


Does that apply to all us lefties, KPG? I'd love to take you up on that!


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> So Joey will you answer the question I asked you? Do you still believe President Obama didn't graduate from Columbia even after reading what was on Columbia's website?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Presidential candidacy of Ted Cruz is showing how difficult it is to avoid pitfalls. Clunk.


Yep--straight down the manhole. In fact, it appears that he dived in head first! And this is only Day 3 of his campaign?


----------



## damemary

Do you think he'll last a week?

Next! The Colosseum needs gladiators to meet the lions. Get your cameras ready.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yep--straight down the manhole. In fact, it appears that he dived in head first! And this is only #3 of his campaign?


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> It may work for you, that is wonderful! I have interviewed many clients that have 0bamacare. Of those that have subsidies most have to pay back on their taxes, one as much as $6,000. Only 2 have received more premium tax credit. I did have one that was ignorant of having to have insurance and was mad at me when he had to pay more than $400 in the shared responsibility payment. All I do is calculate the taxes. They also tell me of their lack of benefits, received on their health care. Only one person was happy she had it, since she had a major health crisis. She had paid over $10,000 in premiums, and a $7,000 deductible before receiving any health benefit. How many will have that amount of money to pay for health insurance.


If they have to pay back their subsidy, then they made more money than they estimated they would make, either by mistake or on purpose, so they should pay it back as they didn't need it. Makes sense to me.


----------



## susanmos2000

damemary said:


> Do you think he'll last a week?
> 
> Next! The Colosseum needs gladiators to meet the lions. Get your cameras ready.


I sure will--perhaps a few of Cruz's supporters here on KP will volunteer? I'd buy front-row seats for that, no question.


----------



## susanmos2000

joeysomma said:


> He is NOT eligible for a subsidy. When the Democrats complained about having to go on the Marketplace. 0bama got out his "pen and phone" and declared that the government would still pay 70% of the cost of the silver plan.


You're splitting hairs, Joey, but OK.

Ted Cruz is eligible for a government contribution, and it's only today (after the sh*t has hit the fan) that he's announced that he will not accept it. What a guy!


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> I have no idea! I have read that many who went to school at the same time do not remember him.
> 
> Since he will not produce his school records, no one can know for sure.


Did you look at the Columbia web site and still not believe he graduated from Columbia????????????? Has every president had to produce school records or just the black man? Have you questioned every president about their citizenship or just the black man? You are hopeless. If you had attented the graduation you would still not believe he graduated from Columbia. That says a lot about you.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> He is NOT eligible for a subsidy. When the Democrats complained about having to go on the Marketplace. 0bama got out his "pen and phone" and declared that the government would still pay 70% of the cost of the silver plan. The same as any other government employee. More illegal moves by 0bama.


He is not eligible for a subsidy, because he makes too much money. He does not need or deserve a subsidy. His employer pays a portion of his insurance as almost all employers do.


----------



## MarilynKnits

NJG said:


> The law mandates he have insurance, it does not mandate it be through the ACA. He could go directly to what ever insurance company he wants to and not through the exchange, so again you are the one who does not know what you are talking about. He wants his employer to pay part of the bill as is his right, I am not disputing that. Any person who can get insurance through their employer and get a discount will probably do that. But I think it is time for him to shut up about wanting to take insurance away from millions of people by repealing the ACA while at the same time taking advantage of it.


Satire Alert:

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)  Just hours after Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas) told CNN that he had no choice but to sign up for Obamacare, President Barack Obama signed an executive order making Cruz ineligible for coverage under the Affordable Care Act.

Clearly, the hardship of receiving Obamacare was causing Ted a great deal of pain, the President said. This should take care of that.

Obama acknowledged that the executive order, which makes Cruz the only American expressly forbidden from signing up for Obamacare, was an extraordinary measure, but added, I felt it was a necessary humanitarian gesture to protect Ted from the law he hates.

Even as he signed the order, the President said that he was torn about barring Cruz from coverage, stating,Hes definitely someone who would benefit from seeing a doctor.

In an official statement released later in the day, Cruz blasted the executive order and accused Obama of distorting his position on Obamacare: I never said I didnt want to have it. I said I didnt want everyone else in the country to have it.

Get news satire from The Borowitz Report delivered to your inbox.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> He is NOT eligible for a subsidy. When the Democrats complained about having to go on the Marketplace. 0bama got out his "pen and phone" and declared that the government would still pay 70% of the cost of the silver plan. The same as any other government employee. More illegal moves by 0bama.


NJG said over and over and over again, Ted Cruz only wanted ACA coverage because he wanted taxpayers to pay a subsidy on his behalf and Cruz wanted to take advantage of we, the taxpayers.

She failed to mention Texas doesn't have an exchange, so Cruz couldn't get a subsidy using his state's exchange!

Cruz said with few affordable options to secure replacement insurance as an individual, he decided he'd use his employer (Fed govt) where NO subsidies are available to him as a Senator as amended by NJG's own Iowa Senator AND regardless, Cruz said he would not accept a subsidy. (Several other Senators have said they refused subsidies).

NJG posted Cruz has every right to use his employer offered insurance as most Americans do the same.

Obama has illegally written an exemption to the law after Congressional staff complained they couldn't afford ACA coverage as mandated w/out subsidies. (Exemption doesn't apply to Cruz, but it is assumed most Congressional staff members are receiving their subsidies).

I proved all to NJG who then changed her tune and now says Cruz won't take a subsidy because he isn't eligible and doesn't deserve or need one.

Osmium and basalt have nothing on the Libs, Joey! :-D


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> NJG said over and over and over again, Ted Cruz only wanted ACA coverage so he could accept assistance from the taxpayers and take advantage of that opportunity.
> 
> Then, when proven that Cruz said he would not accept a subsidy, even though the law as written includes subsidies, NJG then changes her tune and says Cruz won't take a subsidy and isn't eligible and doesn't deserve or need one.
> 
> Osmium and basalt have nothing on the Libs, Joey! :-D


You're deliberately confusing the terms, KPG. Cruz isn't eligible for a subsidy but does qualify--like all Senators--for a government contribution towards his health care. And he's a hypocritical sh-t if he takes it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> You're deliberately confusing the terms, KPG. Cruz isn't eligible for a subsidy but does qualify--like all Senators--for a government contribution towards his health care. And he's a hypocritical sh-t if he takes it.


I am not. Congressmen, Senator Cruz in this case, *by law*, will now receive the same employer contribution premium (a continuation of the past and the status quo) as has been in place for years. Congress now MUST get their insurance (if not privately) through the ACA.

BTW: what the heck do you think the definition of 'subsidy' is? *Hint: = government contribution.* To your earlier slam of me; I now understand you have a 'dope' sign hanging around your neck.

NJG repeatedly besmirched Cruz claiming he was wanting a handout from taxpayers, and wanting a subsidy was his ONLY reason for signing up for the ACA. A COMPLETE lie.

NJG and you are the ones twisting and spinning. I hope you'll tell us all when you make up your minds.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mojave said:


> You missed reading a message somewhere. Here is the timeline.
> *soloweygirl* wrote: FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.
> *NJG* wrote: Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?
> *Mojave* wrote: What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


I have already read those posts. I asked if you thought the audience was hostile.

Did you watch or listen to Cruz's announcement speech? I did both. The audience was large and welcoming, very receptive to Cruz, interrupted him often with cheers, hoots and applause, and I saw a majority rise in a standing ovation when the speech ended.
----------
_hos·tile_
ˈhästl,ˈhäˌstīl
adjective
unfriendly; antagonistic.
"a hostile audience"

of or belonging to a military enemy "hostile aircraft"

synonyms: unfriendly, unkind, bitter, unsympathetic, malicious, vicious, rancorous, venomous, poisonous, virulent;

antonyms:	friendly, mild

opposed.
"people are very hostile to the idea"

synonymspposed to, averse to, antagonistic to, ill-disposed to, disapproving of, unsympathetic to, antipathetic to; opposing, against, inimical to; informalanti, down on
----------
What I *did* miss is you redefining the word "hostile."

I'll ask again, do you believe the audience was hostile?


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> I am not. Congressmen, Senator Cruz in this case, by law, will now receive the same employer contribution premium (a continuation of the past and the status quo) as has been in place for years. Congress now MUST get their insurance (if not privately) through the ACA.
> 
> BTW: what the heck do you think the definition of 'subsidy' is? *Hint: = government contribution.* I understand you have a 'dope' sign hanging around your neck.
> 
> NJG repeatedly besmirched Cruz claiming he was wanting a handout from taxpayers and wanting a subsidy was his ONLY reason for signing up for the ACA. A COMPLETE lie.


You can call it "a subsidy" (the term generally being used for the moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care) or "a government contribution" (admittedly the proper term), but the end result is the same--those funds are coming out of the taxpayers' pockets.

As I said in an earlier post, Cruz only announced he'd turn down the government contribution after the sh*t hit the fan--back on Tuesday he was fishtailing, ducking, and dodging when Dana Bash pressed him on the question of whether he'd accept "a subsidy". If the matter hadn't come to light there's no doubt in my mind that he'd happily be stuffing his wallet with that money.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> You can call it "a subsidy" (the term generally being used for the moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care) or "a government contribution" (admittedly the proper term), but the end result is the same--those funds are coming out of the taxpayers' pockets.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Cruz only announced he'd turn down the government contribution after the sh*t hit the fan--if his actions hadn't come to light he'd happily be stuffing his wallet with that money.


Everyone, including you, use the term 'subsidy' in this case, to refer ONLY to that which someone may qualify for and receive through a state exchange or Healthcare.gov.

Senators DO NOT QUALIFY for a subsidy NOW or BEFORE.

Hundreds, perhaps millions, of Americans now receive subsidies because Obama ILLEGALLY exempted them. NO SENATOR is exempt.

You, the general public, and NJG NEVER used the words "government contribution" in this discussion.

NJG SAID Cruz deserves and should receive what most Americans do from their employer. Cruz's EMPLOYER is the Fed Govt. Senators have had and continue to receive employer premium contributions although beginning in 2014, Congress and their staff can no longer get health insurance through the Fed Employers Health Benefits Program.

CRUZ NEVER intended to suck off the teat of the American taxpayers (NJG's claims) and said he'll REFUSE subsidies and FOLLOW the LAW as written. Senators are *mandated* to now get their insurance (if not privately) from the ACA.

Can mud get any thicker?


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, basalt. Everyone, including you, use the term 'subsidy' in this case, to refer ONLY to that which someone may qualify for and receive through an exchange or Healthcare.gov.
> 
> Senators DO NOT QUALIFY for a subsidy NOW or BEFORE.
> 
> Hundreds, perhaps millions, of Americans receive illegal subsidies because Obama ILLEGALLY exempted them. NO SENATOR is exempt.
> 
> You, the general public, and NJG NEVER used the words "government contribution" in this discussion.
> 
> NJG SAID Cruz deserves and should receive what most Americans do from their employer. Cruz's EMPLOYER is the Fed Govt.
> 
> CRUZ NEVER intended to suck off the teat of the American taxpayers and said he'll REFUSE subsidies and FOLLOW the LAW as written. Senators are *mandated* to now get their insurance (if not privately) through the GOVT (the ACA).
> 
> Can mud get any thicker?


Sorry honey, but the term "subsidy" is being used extensively by the media and the general public in reference government moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care. It's not entirely accurate, but hey it makes the guy look like even bigger a heel in Americans' eyes so I'm not complaining.

And yes, Cruz had his mouth all set to latch onto Uncle Sam's nipple until his hypocritical behavior was uncovered. Until Wednesday he was quite willing to accept the employee contribution that the Republicans tried so hard to abolish last year.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry honey, but the term "subsidy" is being used extensively by the media and the general public in reference government moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care. It's not entirely accurate, but hey it makes the guy look like even bigger a heel in Americans' eyes so I'm not complaining.
> 
> And yes, Cruz had his mouth all set to latch onto Uncle Sam's nipple until his hypocritical behavior was uncovered. Until Wednesday he was quite willing to accept the employee contribution that the Republicans tried so hard to abolish last year.


I just removed the moniker I gave you as I felt it was not appropriate. I see now, I shouldn't have. You continue to earn it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Can you imagine this elected Democrat as the next President?

Democrat Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC) is infamous for being able to wedge her way between a rock and a hard place, being on the wrong side of the law while pointing in the wrong direction, willing to cross lines and leaving everyone else amazed. :-D

She's another Dem woman who thinks rules and laws don't apply to her!

What's wrong with her lackey who witnessed her parking?

http://clashdaily.com/2015/03/watch-this-democrat-try-to-park-dem-delegates-botched-dc-parking-job-turns-into-a-lucy-skit-goes-viral/


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> He is still an American whether he walked away naked or in uniform.
> He was a soldier regardless of what clothing he did or did not wear.
> Imagine if we left McCain behind.


Big difference in these soldiers. McCain was CAPTURED, Burgdhal WALKED into enemy hands willingly. One is a traitor, the other is an honorable member of the military.


----------



## soloweygirl

mojave said:


> Have you ever personally been in combat? I have. It is terrifying. If you have not, please do not judge those who have been in the situation. Allow Bergdahl's peers, the military tribunal to judge him.
> Nobody knows exactly how he/she will behave until in the combat situation, actually forced to deal with the fear. Prior to being in the situation, we can imagine and hope we will behave with courage and honor. Cold, hard reality of combat proves some will take that path and others for various reasons do not. Bergdahl is entitled to a fair trial. Any claims otherwise are a violation of his civil rights as guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Military Code of Justice.


No, I have not been in combat. I am basing my opinion of Bergdhal on what those in his unit have said about him. Those that have fought alongside him and spent months with him. The military court has officially given their findings and they have said that Bergdhal is a traitor.


----------



## soloweygirl

mojave said:


> Perhaps, but extremely doubtful due to a need for secrecy to protect the prisoner exchange negotiations. Too many publicity seeking politicians on both sides of the aisle have demonstrated their love of the TV cameras has precedence over security needs.


Just as you claim the military has certain laws and regulations to follow, so does the president. Obama did not follow the law with this exchange.


----------



## susanmos2000

soloweygirl said:


> Big difference in these soldiers. McCain was CAPTURED, Burgdhal WALKED into enemy hands willingly.


We don't know that. Burdhal has been charged with desertion and misbehavior, but like all Americans he's innocent until proven guilty.


----------



## susanmos2000

soloweygirl said:


> No, I have not been in combat. I am basing my opinion of Bergdhal on what those in his unit have said about him. Those that have fought alongside him and spent months with him. The military court has officially given their findings and they have said that Bergdhal is a traitor.


"Officially given their findings"? Well, that's interesting--charges for desertion and "misbehavior" were only brought against him yesterday. Was he tried and convicted overnight in a military star chamber?


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> MSNBC doesn't have a proven liar like Bill O'Reilly. If they did that person would be apologizing or would be gone. Fox responds by talking about O'Reillys ratings. That shows how much they value the truth. That is why I just call them Fox. They have no concept of what the news is suppose to be.


I don't give a rats ass about what Bill O'Reilly does or doesn't do. I don't get my news from him. You call them Faux News. MSNBC has Al Sharpton, who is quite the liar and hasn't apologized for anything he has said. One can conclude that MSNBC also doesn't care about the truth or changes it to fit into their agenda.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> The law mandates he have insurance, it does not mandate it be through the ACA. He could go directly to what ever insurance company he wants to and not through the exchange, so again you are the one who does not know what you are talking about. He wants his employer to pay part of the bill as is his right, I am not disputing that. Any person who can get insurance through their employer and get a discount will probably do that. But I think it is time for him to shut up about wanting to take insurance away from millions of people by repealing the ACA while at the same time taking advantage of it.


Why are you so adamant about Cruz not enrolling in Obamacare? What are you afraid of? Will his experience with Obamacare prove what he has said about it be the truth, a first hand experience kind of truth? If Obamacare is so wonderful and provides what the Democrats have been stating, then why shouldn't Cruz be able to experience it? This could very well be the punch in the arm that Obamacare needs and be the end of the criticism.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?


So what? It is the University's policy that students attend guest speaker's speeches. How many of Obama's campaign speeches, or any of his other speeches, were at companies that forced their employees to attend?


----------



## jmf6406

soloweygirl said:


> So what? It is the University's policy that students attend guest speaker's speeches. How many of Obama's campaign speeches, or any of his other speeches, were at companies that forced their employees to attend?


Um...None that I have every heard of. People voluntarily waited hours in line to attend one of his speeches. I did when he came to Reno a few years back.


----------



## soloweygirl

sumpleby said:


> They may not have to. It is only a matter of time before he has a Romney moment that will be recorded and broadcast.


Yet Hillary can say and do whatever she wishes with no backlash whatsoever. I'm still laughing over the we were dead broke when we left the White House and all the problems they had trying to get mortgages on their homes after leaving 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> I just removed the moniker I gave you as I felt it was not appropriate. I see now, I shouldn't have. You continue to earn it.


If you feel so then by all means continue to use it. I have a hunch I know why you deemed the moniker "basalt" inappropriate--let's see how many KPers can figure it out.


----------



## soloweygirl

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am waiting to see who KPG will 'imagine' as the next president after Ted goes down in flames. Will she start a new thread for each one of them or call her next thread 'Imagine which of the remaining GOP candidates will be the next president' It's been a real trip seeing you expose yourself over and over again as the buffoon that you are. Good old solowey is your only cheerleader. So sad but funny too. Thanks for the laughs and thanks for the intelligent posts from the rest of the posters. I guess KPG did the best she could but she just doesn't have 'it' and never will. Look forward to your next thread dear. :XD:


Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


----------



## soloweygirl

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am waiting to see who KPG will 'imagine' as the next president after Ted goes down in flames. Will she start a new thread for each one of them or call her next thread 'Imagine which of the remaining GOP candidates will be the next president' It's been a real trip seeing you expose yourself over and over again as the buffoon that you are. Good old solowey is your only cheerleader. So sad but funny too. Thanks for the laughs and thanks for the intelligent posts from the rest of the posters. I guess KPG did the best she could but she just doesn't have 'it' and never will. Look forward to your next thread dear. :XD:


Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


----------



## soloweygirl

susanmos2000 said:


> "Officially given their findings"? Well, that's interesting--charges for desertion and "misbehavior" were only brought against him yesterday. Was he tried and convicted overnight in a military star chamber?


No the trial was months ago and the verdict was only announced yesterday.


----------



## soloweygirl

jmf6406 said:


> Um...None that I have every heard of. People voluntarily waited hours in line to attend one of his speeches. I did when he came to Reno a few years back.


Good for you. I hope it was worth the wait.


----------



## susanmos2000

soloweygirl said:


> No the trial was months ago and the verdict was only announced yesterday.


Are we talking about the same guy?--no sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely curious. As I understand it, he was only brought up on charges yesterday, and whatever the army investigation has uncovered hasn't yet been released.

This from the Washington Post:

"Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, the U.S. soldier who slipped away from his patrol base in Afghanistan in 2009 and was held in captivity for five years, has been charged with desertion and misbehaving before the enemy, Army officials said Wednesday, setting the stage for emotionally charged court proceedings in coming months.

The charges were announced by the service at Fort Bragg, N.C., hours after the 28-year-old was handed a charge sheet, according to one of his attorneys. Bergdahl will next face a preliminary Article 32 hearing, which is frequently compared to a grand jury proceeding in civilian court."

And from CNN:

Washington (CNN)UPDATE 2:08 p.m. - Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl will be charged with desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, according to Bergdahl's attorney and a Congressional source.

"UPDATE 1:52 p.m. - The U.S. military said Wednesday that it will make an announcement on the Bergdahl case at 3:30 EDT from Fort Bragg.

It's been nearly a year since Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl returned to the United States as part of a prisoner exchange and since the Army began a formal investigation into his disappearance from his unit. Yet the Army still hasn't made public its findings and, with them, what discipline -- if any -- Bergdahl will face for leaving his base in eastern Afghanistan in June 2009"


----------



## SQM

soloweygirl said:


> Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


My guess is that some moderate governors will try from both parties if there are any.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> So what? It is the University's policy that students attend guest speaker's speeches. How many of Obama's campaign speeches, or any of his other speeches, were at companies that forced their employees to attend?


soloweygirl
say what?


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Good for you. I hope it was worth the wait.


soloweygirl
actually waiting for our first black President was WELL WORTH how long we had to wait for it. What a historical figure he will be for centuries to come. Tough to follow his leadership.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Yet Hillary can say and do whatever she wishes with no backlash whatsoever. I'm still laughing over the we were dead broke when we left the White House and all the problems they had trying to get mortgages on their homes after leaving 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


soloweygirl
forgot that President Clinton handed over a surplus which his follower turned into a deficit of great proportions? Why do we have to spend so much time to help you remember things? Perhaps some Physician's treatment is in order.


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> forgot that President Clinton handed over a surplus which his follower turned into a deficit of great proportions? Why do we have to spend so much time to help you remember things? Perhaps some Physician's treatment is in order.


Huck do you agree that Clinton handed a surplus and Bush handed a huge deficit because of an necessary war. I wonder why that is rarely if ever mentioned. It seems to jump from Clinton to Obama - but Bush's failings and poor judgment are never mentioned.


----------



## sumpleby

soloweygirl said:


> Yet Hillary can say and do whatever she wishes with no backlash whatsoever. I'm still laughing over the we were dead broke when we left the White House and all the problems they had trying to get mortgages on their homes after leaving 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


 You do know what I was referring to when I said Cruz will probably have a "Romney moment," don't you? If Hillary ever makes a "47%" type statement, she will be outed too, no problem.


----------



## sumpleby

soloweygirl said:


> Why are you so adamant about Cruz not enrolling in Obamacare? What are you afraid of? Will his experience with Obamacare prove what he has said about it be the truth, a first hand experience kind of truth? If Obamacare is so wonderful and provides what the Democrats have been stating, then why shouldn't Cruz be able to experience it? This could very well be the punch in the arm that Obamacare needs and be the end of the criticism.


No one is "adamant" about it. We just point out his hypocrisy. He sooooo against the ACA, but now enrolls in it. He tries to spin the tale that he "has to" sign up for it, when that is certainly not the case. As he's so hell bent on destroying the ACA, he should just go out and get his own insurance.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> NJG said over and over and over again, Ted Cruz only wanted ACA coverage because he wanted taxpayers to pay a subsidy on his behalf and Cruz wanted to take advantage of we, the taxpayers.
> 
> She failed to mention Texas doesn't have an exchange, so Cruz couldn't get a subsidy using his state's exchange!
> 
> Cruz said with few affordable options to secure replacement insurance as an individual, he decided he'd use his employer (Fed govt) where NO subsidies are available to him as a Senator as amended by NJG's own Iowa Senator AND regardless, Cruz said he would not accept a subsidy. (Several other Senators have said they refused subsidies).
> 
> NJG posted Cruz has every right to use his employer offered insurance as most Americans do the same.
> 
> Obama has illegally written an exemption to the law after Congressional staff complained they couldn't afford ACA coverage as mandated w/out subsidies. (Exemption doesn't apply to Cruz, but it is assumed most Congressional staff members are receiving their subsidies).
> 
> I proved all to NJG who then changed her tune and now says Cruz won't take a subsidy because he isn't eligible and doesn't deserve or need one.
> 
> Osmium and basalt have nothing on the Libs, Joey! :-D


I will try to make this easy for you, by making the word subsidy mean the money from the federal government that is used for "lower income" people to purchase healthcare under the ACA. Cruz should not qualify as I am sure he makes over $100,000 a year.

As a rule of thumb, if your family income is between one and four times the published Federal Poverty Guideline (100%  400% FPL) for your household size and you are not eligible for employer or other public assisted healthcare (such as Medicaid or Medicare), then you will be able to receive premium subsidies to help you. Cruz makes over $100,000 and he is eligible for employer subsidized healthcare so I would say he does not qualify for a subsidy, nor should any other congress person even if they say they are turning them down.

If your state has not established a marketplace, then you can go through the federal marketplace. He could also purchase insurance from any insurance company he wanted, but then he would not qualify to have his employer pay a percentage of his insurance, as most employers do. I would say it would be expensive to purchase insurance outside of the exchange as he would not receive the contribution from his employer, so he went through the exchange and receives his employer contribution, or government help, or call it whatever you want. Where does the money from his employer come from, but from the tax payers. Yes he wants his employer to contribute to his benefits and he would be stupid not to. How many more ways can I say it. It all means the same.

My understanding was that when the amendment that congress was to get insurance under the ACA was added, it did not include the fact that the employer [federal gov] was to contribute to employees insurance as they had in the past. That is why the wording had to be changed.

Now Obama could have left things as they were and not fixed it. How loud do you suppose they would have yelled them is they got no help from their employer, but that would not have been fair.

Congressional staff probably does qualify for a subsidy, because of their income, but as loudly as Cruz has complained about the ACA and how terrible it is, I still think it is very hypocritical for him to now take advantage of it in order to get the assistance of the employer contribution. Someone with convictions that strong should have stood up and said no, if I don't want you to have it, then I shouldn't have it myself.

Now what part of this do you still not understand?


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> I am not. Congressmen, Senator Cruz in this case, *by law*, will now receive the same employer contribution premium (a continuation of the past and the status quo) as has been in place for years. Congress now MUST get their insurance (if not privately) through the ACA.
> 
> BTW: what the heck do you think the definition of 'subsidy' is? *Hint: = government contribution.* To your earlier slam of me; I now understand you have a 'dope' sign hanging around your neck.
> 
> NJG repeatedly besmirched Cruz claiming he was wanting a handout from taxpayers, and wanting a subsidy was his ONLY reason for signing up for the ACA. A COMPLETE lie.
> 
> NJG and you are the ones twisting and spinning. I hope you'll tell us all when you make up your minds.


Cruz has signed up for the ACA ONLY because he wants the government to pay for part of his insurance. There is a difference between subsidy and the employer contribution. You evidently need that spelled out and explained as most people just understood that someone making over $100,000 a year, probably $174,000, would not qualify for a "subsidy" but would be able to receive an employer contribution. If Cruz said he turned down the subsidy, then he is even a bigger hypocrite than I thought.


----------



## NJG

quote KPG: CRUZ NEVER intended to suck off the teat of the American taxpayers (NJG's claims) and said he'll REFUSE subsidies and FOLLOW the LAW as written. Senators are mandated to now get their insurance (if not privately) from the ACA.

You are off your rocker again. Don't put words like that in my mouth. They are your words. It is easy for Cruz to refuse something that has not been offered to him. They are mandated to get their insurance through the ACA if they want the employer contribution. If they want to do it privately, there is no contribution. This hypocritical move will follow Cruz till he drops out of the race.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> I will try to make this easy for you, by making the word subsidy mean the money from the federal government that is used for "lower income" people to purchase healthcare under the ACA. Cruz should not qualify as I am sure he makes over $100,000 a year.
> ns the same.
> 
> .... " blah, blah, blah " ...
> 
> Now what part of this do you still not understand?


I've dumbed this down for you so perhaps youll get it this time;



knitpresentgifts said:


> I will not take the time to prove you wrong again. Youre not worth my time.


Luv, a 1%er.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> Why are you so adamant about Cruz not enrolling in Obamacare? What are you afraid of? Will his experience with Obamacare prove what he has said about it be the truth, a first hand experience kind of truth? If Obamacare is so wonderful and provides what the Democrats have been stating, then why shouldn't Cruz be able to experience it? This could very well be the punch in the arm that Obamacare needs and be the end of the criticism.


Cruz has badmouthed the ACA constantly, telling everyone how terrible it is and that it must be repealed, "every last word." Then he turns around and gets it for himself and his family. That just proves what a hypocrite he is. If he really believed it was that terrible, why would he suddenly think it was good enough for his family?

Is he badmouthing the ACA because he really thinks it is that bad or is he just doing it to make Obama look bad and trying to make him fail. I would say it is the latter, because none of the badmouthing really has any substance to it. It is just rhetoric.

Too bad he couldn't think far enough ahead to what they would do when his wife took a leave of absence from her job and they would have no insurance.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> So what? It is the University's policy that students attend guest speaker's speeches. How many of Obama's campaign speeches, or any of his other speeches, were at companies that forced their employees to attend?


I wouldn't know as I haven't heard of any. Did hear that coal miners were forced to attend a Romney speech with out pay though.


----------



## sumpleby

NJG said:


> I wouldn't know as I haven't heard of any. Did hear that coal miners were forced to attend a Romney speech with out pay though.


You can bet that if any employees had been forced to attend an Obama speech we would have heard about it. Faux News would have screamed about it 24/7. On the other hand we heard several times about employees being coerced to attend Romney speeches.

Now we have Cruz giving a speech where students were give the choice of attending or paying a fine. Nice going.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


I will just wait for them to decide. At this point any democrat who decides to run will beat whatever republican survives the circus. They must realize that they have driven minorities further and further away and since white people will soon be in the minority, the republican party is in for big trouble. Some republican states are in deep financial dodo because of republican policies concerning tax cuts, and cutting education etc.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Luv, a 1%er.


 Just as I expected. When it finally makes it through that thick skull of yours, you back away and say:

Quote: I will not take the time to prove you wrong again. Youre not worth my time.

Everyone knows, you can't prove me wrong. When the truth hits you in the face you give up.


----------



## SQM

N - Even tho we disagree about Israel, I am very proud of your responses and expertise. Brava N.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

joeysomma said:


> It may work for you, that is wonderful! I have interviewed many clients that have 0bamacare. Of those that have subsidies most have to pay back on their taxes, one as much as $6,000. Only 2 have received more premium tax credit. I did have one that was ignorant of having to have insurance and was mad at me when he had to pay more than $400 in the shared responsibility payment. All I do is calculate the taxes. They also tell me of their lack of benefits, received on their health care. Only one person was happy she had it, since she had a major health crisis. She had paid over $10,000 in premiums, and a $7,000 deductible before receiving any health benefit. How many will have that amount of money to pay for health insurance.


I seriously doubt what you say as $4,000 - $5,000 were considered high maximum deductible and the same was true for out of pocket. Maybe, what you have in your state isn't as good a coverage. If people want to pay the lowest monthly premiums they will get much higher maximum deductible and out of pocket. I would rather pay the premiums and not risk this happening. You can check out all the numbers online at MNSURE.com. I know some people owed a couple hundred dollars in on taxes and others who got similar refund amounts. It did get off to a rocky start but is working well now. Even Ted Cruz has jumped on the bandwagon even though he could go out and purchase his insurance anywhere he wishes. A bit of a hypocrite that one. :lol:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

soloweygirl said:


> Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


There are more than one but one good one is all you need. All in good time solo. All the right has to offer is a menagerie of idiots. None of them knows the first thing about running a countries internal affairs let alone how diplomacy and negotiating with foreign governments is conducted. Your candidates are being laughed at by the rest of the world and that really is disturbing. The right is ruining the U.S.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

soloweygirl said:


> Good for you. I hope it was worth the wait.


More than worth the wait. My family and friends waited for several hours in January to hear the President speak. It was very cold and thousands of people stood in line to see him at the Target Center in Minneapolis. It was one of the highlights of my life and I will never forget it. The man is amazing.


----------



## mmorris

Reminds me of the Jimmy Carter maxim--'Jimmy Who?' I have to admit that I've never heard of Cruz. By the way, what does 'The eagle just flew' mean'? Haven't heard of that one!


----------



## NJG

SQM said:


> N - Even tho we disagree about Israel, I am very proud of your responses and expertise. Brava N.


Thank you. I don't thing we really disagree that much about Israel. I just dislike Bibi and his methods, although I won't discuss it anymore with anyone. I don't like having words put in my mouth.


----------



## mmorris

President Johnson came to our High School football field. We played the National Anthem--sounded like a record on the wrong speed. Afterwards, he shook our hands, showed interest in activities. That was something he didn't have to do. (p.s. Mrs. Johnson was there. She was much prettier in person). :thumbup:


----------



## NJG

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I seriously doubt what you say as $4,000 - $5,000 were considered high maximum deductible and the same was true for out of pocket. Maybe, what you have in your state isn't as good a coverage. If people want to pay the lowest monthly premiums they will get much higher maximum deductible and out of pocket. I would rather pay the premiums and not risk this happening. You can check out all the numbers online at MNSURE.com. I know some people owed a couple hundred dollars in on taxes and others who got similar refund amounts. It did get off to a rocky start but is working well now. Even Ted Cruz has jumped on the bandwagon even though he could go out and purchase his insurance anywhere he wishes. A bit of a hypocrite that one. :lol:


I have my doubts at those numbers too Cheeky. If people over or under estimated what their income was going to be, then they either got a bigger subsidy and have to pay it back or the opposite. For someone to have to pay back $6000 because of their subsidy, they must have not been honest about the amount of money they would earn. My daughter received a small subsidy last year and she had to estimate her income. She now has a full time job besides her home business but that started this year. It will be interesting to see how her taxes will turn out. She hasn't done them yet. I'll let you know.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

NJG said:


> I have my doubts at those numbers too Cheeky. If people over or under estimated what their income was going to be, then they either got a bigger subsidy and have to pay it back or the opposite. For someone to have to pay back $6000 because of their subsidy, they must have not been honest about the amount of money they would earn. My daughter received a small subsidy last year and she had to estimate her income. She now has a full time job besides her home business but that started this year. It will be interesting to see how her taxes will turn out. She hasn't done them yet. I'll let you know.


I don't believe there were subsidies that large. One would qualify for medicaid first and pay nothing. Since subsidies were based on 2013 income for 2014 there could obviously be a difference but the average person's income would generally not vary that much from year to year. Yes, let me know how it goes for your daughter next year. Obviously, if people are able they would pay the entire premium each month and then apply for a credit when they file their tax return. That way no surprises but many people can't afford to do it that way. Nothing is perfect the first time out of the chute but ACA is getting there. I'm sure SS and Medicare had their growing pains too.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

mmorris said:


> President Johnson came to our High School football field. We played the National Anthem--sounded like a record on the wrong speed. Afterwards, he shook our hands, showed interest in activities. That was something he didn't have to do. (p.s. Mrs. Johnson was there. She was much prettier in person). :thumbup:


It must have been exciting to see President Johnson and Mrs. Johnson too.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:thumbdown:


----------



## damemary

Will Congress repeal every.single.word before or after Ted Cruz applies for coverage?



knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Precisely why Cruz wants it repealed, every.single.word.
> 
> AND suitable, portable, affordable and patient-doctor insurance in its place.


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> More of your nonsense. You are too funny. Why didn't Cruz go out and buy insurance on his own. He was not obligated to sign up for ACA. If he believes it is so bad he must not care about the welfare of his wife and kids to purchase such terrible coverage. Either that or he is really stupid. Which is it?
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: ROFL


----------



## damemary

You explained it perfectly. Thanks.



mojave said:


> You missed reading a message somewhere. Here is the timeline.
> *soloweygirl* wrote: FYI, Liberty University requires mandatory attendance for all of their speakers, with fines attached. This has been a policy of the university for a long time. Cruz's appearance fit under this category, despite what the MSM and you claim.
> *NJG* wrote: Pretty clever of Cruz to announce where he was assured to have a large audience. Wonder how many would have showed up if they had not been forced?
> *Mojave* wrote: What person if given a choice would announce his/her presidential candidacy before a known hostile audience? I would have to rate such as de facto proof of mental incompetence and de facto proof of unsuitability to be president.


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> I did prove you a liar with the links I posted. You just don't know the truth when it hits you in the face. Now it is your responsibility to prove you are right. I already told you that. You do not comprehend what you have read.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> Did you look at the Columbia web site and still not believe he graduated from Columbia????????????? Has every president had to produce school records or just the black man? Have you questioned every president about their citizenship or just the black man? You are hopeless. If you had attented the graduation you would still not believe he graduated from Columbia. That says a lot about you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

Bravo. Thanks for posting.



MarilynKnits said:


> Satire Alert:
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)  Just hours after Senator Ted Cruz (R-Texas) told CNN that he had no choice but to sign up for Obamacare, President Barack Obama signed an executive order making Cruz ineligible for coverage under the Affordable Care Act.
> 
> Clearly, the hardship of receiving Obamacare was causing Ted a great deal of pain, the President said. This should take care of that.
> 
> Obama acknowledged that the executive order, which makes Cruz the only American expressly forbidden from signing up for Obamacare, was an extraordinary measure, but added, I felt it was a necessary humanitarian gesture to protect Ted from the law he hates.
> 
> Even as he signed the order, the President said that he was torn about barring Cruz from coverage, stating,Hes definitely someone who would benefit from seeing a doctor.
> 
> In an official statement released later in the day, Cruz blasted the executive order and accused Obama of distorting his position on Obamacare: I never said I didnt want to have it. I said I didnt want everyone else in the country to have it.
> 
> Get news satire from The Borowitz Report delivered to your inbox.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> You're deliberately confusing the terms, KPG. Cruz isn't eligible for a subsidy but does qualify--like all Senators--for a government contribution towards his health care. And he's a hypocritical sh-t if he takes it.


I beg to differ. Cruz is a hypocritical sh-t whether he takes the subsidy or not. It's a gift and he's got it.


----------



## damemary

Well put. Thanks for posting.



susanmos2000 said:


> You can call it "a subsidy" (the term generally being used for the moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care) or "a government contribution" (admittedly the proper term), but the end result is the same--those funds are coming out of the taxpayers' pockets.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Cruz only announced he'd turn down the government contribution after the sh*t hit the fan--back on Tuesday he was fishtailing, ducking, and dodging when Dana Bash pressed him on the question of whether he'd accept "a subsidy". If the matter hadn't come to light there's no doubt in my mind that he'd happily be stuffing his wallet with that money.


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry honey, but the term "subsidy" is being used extensively by the media and the general public in reference government moneys Cruz is eligible to receive towards his health care. It's not entirely accurate, but hey it makes the guy look like even bigger a heel in Americans' eyes so I'm not complaining.
> 
> And yes, Cruz had his mouth all set to latch onto Uncle Sam's nipple until his hypocritical behavior was uncovered. Until Wednesday he was quite willing to accept the employee contribution that the Republicans tried so hard to abolish last year.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I love it when you talk smart.....always.


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> "Officially given their findings"? Well, that's interesting--charges for desertion and "misbehavior" were only brought against him yesterday. Was he tried and convicted overnight in a military star chamber?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

jmf6406 said:


> Um...None that I have every heard of. People voluntarily waited hours in line to attend one of his speeches. I did when he came to Reno a few years back.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Same experience here. Tickets have been in great demand every time President Obama speaks. That's what happens when you're President rather than one candidate generating little enthusiasm.


----------



## damemary

The consensus is that the nomination is Hillary Clinton's if she decides to run. She is eminently qualified and experienced. If she decides not to run, others will throw their hat into the ring. We'll see how much credence the voters give Ted.



soloweygirl said:


> Instead of bashing Cruz - the only official candidate for now from either party - why not talk about who the Democrats have lined up to enter the ring. Who would be a better candidate than Cruz? Who is getting close to announcing their candidacy? Other than Hillary - whose candidacy is still pending - who will the Democrats run? From what I see, it's pretty slim picking in the candidate pool. Elizabeth Warren is a new Senator with no experience. Does she have any experience running anything? Anyone else Cheeky?


----------



## damemary

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> actually waiting for our first black President was WELL WORTH how long we had to wait for it. What a historical figure he will be for centuries to come. Tough to follow his leadership.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

NJG said:


> Cruz has badmouthed the ACA constantly, telling everyone how terrible it is and that it must be repealed, "every last word." Then he turns around and gets it for himself and his family. That just proves what a hypocrite he is. If he really believed it was that terrible, why would he suddenly think it was good enough for his family?
> 
> Is he badmouthing the ACA because he really thinks it is that bad or is he just doing it to make Obama look bad and trying to make him fail. I would say it is the latter, because none of the badmouthing really has any substance to it. It is just rhetoric.
> 
> Too bad he couldn't think far enough ahead to what they would do when his wife took a leave of absence from her job and they would have no insurance.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Just as I expected. When it finally makes it through that thick skull of yours, you back away and say:
> 
> Quote: I will not take the time to prove you wrong again. Youre not worth my time.
> 
> Everyone knows, you can't prove me wrong. When the truth hits you in the face you give up.


Nope, you didn't get it the second time either.

If the truth hit me in the facing coming out of your mouth it would clearly be a miracle.

You're too stupid to realize I wrote nearly the same thing as you minus the ignorance, ever-present political bias, twisting, constant insults, lies and condescending attitude.

Oh, btw, I don't run nor give up when faced with the insolent you. I'm not an ignorant Liberal or Democrat who is afraid to stand up for what is right and true, and I serve and support my country in whatever capacity I'm able.

You're just not worthy of my time.

Perhaps the third time's the charm.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mmorris said:


> Reminds me of the Jimmy Carter maxim--'Jimmy Who?' I have to admit that I've never heard of Cruz. By the way, what does 'The eagle just flew' mean'? Haven't heard of that one!


I'm sorry to say you are what is called a low-information voter.

Please, do not vote, if you don't follow and are not aware and knowledgable of those people wanting to serve and be elected to a position.

Your vote in that capacity would be a disservice to all Americans who care and pay attention and an insult to our most precious right.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

NJG said:


> Thank you. I don't thing we really disagree that much about Israel. I just dislike Bibi and his methods, although I won't discuss it anymore with anyone. I don't like having words put in my mouth.


Well, what do you know; here's you giving up.

I can imagine Netanyahu as the next President of the USA. I like Bibi AND a good number of his methods. He's a leader of integrity, strength and bold leadership and does what it takes to protect the very existence of his country and citizens as PM.

Obama could well learn to lead from Bibi in order to do his #1 job of protecting Americans and America but, instead, <0 treats Bibi and Israel as the enemy to the detriment of America. Despicable!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :thumbdown:


So great. When someone is attacked and crucified *one* day after making his announcement speech (Cruz by the Dems), I *know* exactly who they fear and who has great potential to win the Presidency.

Go Cruz go!

Hey, KPers, let's all imagine Ted Cruz as the next President!* Thoughts?

*(since no one else has thrown their hat into the ring yet and the KP Libs are already hyperventilating, who can you imagine in the WH?)


----------



## knitpresentgifts

damemary said:


> I beg to differ. Cruz is a hypocritical sh-t whether he takes the subsidy or not. It's a gift and he's got it.





damemary said:


> :thumbdown:This comment adds nothing to the discussion. Please refrain from such vague and critical opinions. Thank you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Glory, Glory, Hallelujah! Harry Reid will not seek re-election - oh, happy day!


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, what do you know; here's you giving up.
> 
> I can imagine Netanyahu as the next President of the USA. I like Bibi AND a good number of his methods. He's a leader of integrity, strength and bold leadership and does what it takes to protect the very existence of his country and citizens as PM.


I'm sure you can, KPG. Why not spearhead a campaign to amend that pesky Article 2 and get Netanyahu on the ballot? I'll contribute two bits and the papers from my parakeet's cage for all those petitions you're going to need.


----------



## damemary

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope, you didn't get it the second time either.
> 
> If the truth hit me in the facing coming out of your mouth it would clearly be a miracle.
> 
> You're too stupid to realize I wrote nearly the same thing as you minus the ignorance, ever-present political bias, twisting, constant insults, lies and condescending attitude.
> 
> Oh, btw, I don't run nor give up when faced with the insolent you. I'm not an ignorant Liberal or Democrat who is afraid to stand up for what is right and true, and I serve and support my country in whatever capacity I'm able.
> 
> You're just not worthy of my time.
> 
> Perhaps the third time's the charm.


 :thumbdown:


----------



## damemary

Arrogant and judgmental. Oh, never mind. Case of old dog, new tricks. Forgive me for mentioning it.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry to say you are what is called a low-information voter.
> 
> Please, do not vote, if you don't follow and are not aware and knowledgable of those people wanting to serve and be elected to a position.
> 
> Your vote in that capacity would be a disservice to all Americans who care and pay attention and an insult to our most precious right.


----------



## damemary

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, what do you know; here's you giving up.
> 
> I can imagine Netanyahu as the next President of the USA. I like Bibi AND a good number of his methods. He's a leader of integrity, strength and bold leadership and does what it takes to protect the very existence of his country and citizens as PM.
> 
> Obama could well learn to lead from Bibi in order to do his #1 job of protecting Americans and America but, instead, <0 treats Bibi and Israel as the enemy to the detriment of America. Despicable!


 :thumbdown:


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure you can, KPG. Why not spearhead a campaign to amend that pesky Article 2 and get Netanyahu on the ballot? I'll contribute two bits and the papers from my parakeet's cage for all those petitions you're going to need.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: That's my pesky Lib. Go girl.


----------



## sumpleby

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, what do you know; here's you giving up.
> 
> I can imagine Netanyahu as the next President of the USA. I like Bibi AND a good number of his methods. He's a leader of integrity, strength and bold leadership and does what it takes to protect the very existence of his country and citizens as PM.
> 
> Obama could well learn to lead from Bibi in order to do his #1 job of protecting Americans and America but, instead, <0 treats Bibi and Israel as the enemy to the detriment of America. Despicable!


President Obama has never treated either Netanyahu or Israel "as the enemy"--this is just mindless rhetoric from the right.


----------



## sumpleby

knitpresentgifts said:


> So great. When someone is attacked and crucified *one* day after making his announcement speech (Cruz by the Dems), I *know* exactly who they fear and who has great potential to win the Presidency.
> 
> Go Cruz go!
> 
> Hey, KPers, let's all imagine Ted Cruz as the next President!* Thoughts?
> 
> *(since no one else has thrown their hat into the ring yet and the KP Libs are already hyperventilating, who can you imagine in the WH?)


Democrats haven't "attacked" Cruz, they've just laughed. It is his fellow Republicans who've done the attacking, with few kind words.


----------



## GWPlver

sumpleby said:


> Democrats haven't "attacked" Cruz, they've just laughed. It is his fellow Republicans who've done the attacking, with few kind words.


And some of them are laughing as well.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

knitpresentgifts said:


> The terrorists were not wartime prisoners and have no rights granted to them even under the Geneva Convention. As someone who served, I'm surprised you don't recognize them as the unlawful/enemy combatants they are.
> I do wish to thank you again for your military service.


And if we released every enemy combatant we're holding and repatriated them, there would be no change in the level of terrorism worldwide. They're a drop in the bucket. Sure, they'll be welcomed home and treated as heroes. Other terrorist leaders will embrace them, take them to their bosoms and beg them to help plan acts of terrorism. They'll still be a drop in terrorism's bucket. We already need to up our security measures. Maybe releasing a few horrible enemy combatants will give us the much needed encouragement to improve the general security of this country.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

NJG said:


> Did you look at the Columbia web site and still not believe he graduated from Columbia????????????? Has every president had to produce school records or just the black man? Have you questioned every president about their citizenship or just the black man? You are hopeless. If you had attented the graduation you would still not believe he graduated from Columbia. That says a lot about you.


Of course, though some people don't want to believe it, President Obama had to be vetted right down to the number of nose hairs he has before he was nominated as the Democratic Party's candidate for President.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

knitpresentgifts said:


> You prove me a liar; the responsibility to prove your accusation falls on you.


I tend to think you aren't a liar. Rather you've got an inclination to indulge your taste for making small-minded and mean-spirited posts here using questionable sources you believe back up what you post.

This is my opinion which means I don't have to prove anything I've said here.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> President Obama has never treated either Netanyahu or Israel "as the enemy"--this is just mindless rhetoric from the right.


You might want to think about seeking and following the actual news instead of your favorite Dem pundits and talking heads so you can speak to the issues and not just repeat a DNC talking point.

Let's start with this: few known, but Obama, Jarrett and Kerry are currently in negotiations with Iran (without Congress - another story for another time). Iran is presently fighting against Israel along with ISIS and repeatedly states they (Iran) want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.

Meanwhile, the head honcho of Iran just led the chant "Death to America" a few days ago at the annual Death To Americans holiday Iran celebrates (hundreds in attendance, thousands throughout the country).

Remember, the WH Admin is NOW in Iran in secret negotiations.

Think back a few weeks when Bibi spoke to the US Congress and Obama refused to take a meeting with the PM of Israel, reprimanded him and his speech after the fact, gave a press conference dissing Bibi's words and encouraged and participated in a boycott to even HEAR the speech. <0 probably refused to attend the PM's luncheon as well. Obama's Admin sent out his press secretary who also bashed Bibi and Israel to do what he always does; spin and dodge the truth while saying nothing. Don't forget all the Dems on the Sunday shows doing the same.

Here's some more evidence: Obama used $350,000 of American taxpayers' $ to give to the primary person who ran Obama's presidential campaigns and sent both the person and $ to help effectuate the recent Israeli election with the hope of ousting Netanyahu.

Oh, btw, Obama is President of the USA - not Iran, not the UN or any other nation.

What part of "Death to America" and "Let's Wipe Israel off the face of the Map" do you not understand?

Where do you think Obama's priorities *should* lie and where do they lie?


----------



## soloweygirl

susanmos2000 said:


> Are we talking about the same guy?--no sarcasm intended, I'm genuinely curious. As I understand it, he was only brought up on charges yesterday, and whatever the army investigation has uncovered hasn't yet been released.
> 
> This from the Washington Post:
> 
> "Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, the U.S. soldier who slipped away from his patrol base in Afghanistan in 2009 and was held in captivity for five years, has been charged with desertion and misbehaving before the enemy, Army officials said Wednesday, setting the stage for emotionally charged court proceedings in coming months.
> 
> The charges were announced by the service at Fort Bragg, N.C., hours after the 28-year-old was handed a charge sheet, according to one of his attorneys. Bergdahl will next face a preliminary Article 32 hearing, which is frequently compared to a grand jury proceeding in civilian court."
> 
> And from CNN:
> 
> Washington (CNN)UPDATE 2:08 p.m. - Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl will be charged with desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, according to Bergdahl's attorney and a Congressional source.
> 
> "UPDATE 1:52 p.m. - The U.S. military said Wednesday that it will make an announcement on the Bergdahl case at 3:30 EDT from Fort Bragg.
> 
> It's been nearly a year since Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl returned to the United States as part of a prisoner exchange and since the Army began a formal investigation into his disappearance from his unit. Yet the Army still hasn't made public its findings and, with them, what discipline -- if any -- Bergdahl will face for leaving his base in eastern Afghanistan in June 2009"


Yes, we are talking about the same person. Bergdhal's trial had already taken place and the WH wanted the results to be kept on hold until a later date.


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> forgot that President Clinton handed over a surplus which his follower turned into a deficit of great proportions? Why do we have to spend so much time to help you remember things? Perhaps some Physician's treatment is in order.


What on earth are you talking about?

FYI, I was speaking about Hillary and her comments about the Clinton's PERSONAL FINANCES after leaving the White House.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Yes, we are talking about the same person. Bergdhal's trial had already taken place and the WH wanted the results to be kept on hold until a later date.


Solo, Bergdhals's Commanders have investigated his case and knew the charges to be brought against him nine or ten months ago. (not sure of the exact dates). (Army talked to onsite military witnesses, those who tried to find and return Bowe to his base, etc.) At least six military members were killed searching for the traitor and deserter, Bergdhal.

However, he hasn't been to trial yet which will be a military tribunal (equivalent to a civilian courtroom trial). Several high ranking Army Officers reviewed and investigated the case for a ridiculous period of time because <0 demanded it (of course the actual truth will never come out).

I fully believe Bowe would have also been charged with treason if <0 had not interfered. (Obama is panicked trying to save face*)

You're correct that <0 has interfered, unprecedented, and delayed the case, tribunal and justice for purely political reasons. <0 also got in his horrific photo OP and is now paying for his stupidity and interference.

*Least we forget, five top radical terrorists were traded for Bergdhal. (I know you know this Solo) :evil:


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> Cruz has badmouthed the ACA constantly, telling everyone how terrible it is and that it must be repealed, "every last word." Then he turns around and gets it for himself and his family. That just proves what a hypocrite he is. If he really believed it was that terrible, why would he suddenly think it was good enough for his family?
> 
> Is he badmouthing the ACA because he really thinks it is that bad or is he just doing it to make Obama look bad and trying to make him fail. I would say it is the latter, because none of the badmouthing really has any substance to it. It is just rhetoric.
> 
> Too bad he couldn't think far enough ahead to what they would do when his wife took a leave of absence from her job and they would have no insurance.


You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes Cruz has been badmouthing Obamacare. Look on the bright side, Cruz just might be the best thing for Obamacare. Cruz just might prove that it is something that should be kept, not repealed. Then you pro Obamacare people can have an I Told You So party that can last up to the election.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> What on earth are you talking about?
> 
> FYI, I was speaking about Hillary and her comments about the Clinton's PERSONAL FINANCES after leaving the White House.


She's completely lost - I wish she'd admit it and move on (back to her island with her whippersnapper). :-D


----------



## soloweygirl

Cheeky Blighter said:


> There are more than one but one good one is all you need. All in good time solo. All the right has to offer is a menagerie of idiots. None of them knows the first thing about running a countries internal affairs let alone how diplomacy and negotiating with foreign governments is conducted. Your candidates are being laughed at by the rest of the world and that really is disturbing. The right is ruining the U.S.


Our current president has that going for him daily. He even has them to the point of no longer trusting America. It's not the right that is ruining America, the left has already done the job.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Our current president has that going for him daily. He even has them to the point of no longer trusting America. It's not the right that is ruining America, the left has already done the job.


 :thumbup: Bravo! Now it will be up to the Repubs and Indepts to clean up the mess.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Glory, Glory, Hallelujah! Harry Reid will not seek re-election - oh, happy day!


I did a happy dance when I heard the news. The next dinosaur to go is Pelosi. The Democrats so need fresh blood.


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope, you didn't get it the second time either.
> 
> If the truth hit me in the facing coming out of your mouth it would clearly be a miracle.
> 
> You're too stupid to realize I wrote nearly the same thing as you minus the ignorance, ever-present political bias, twisting, constant insults, lies and condescending attitude.
> 
> Oh, btw, I don't run nor give up when faced with the insolent you. I'm not an ignorant Liberal or Democrat who is afraid to stand up for what is right and true, and I serve and support my country in whatever capacity I'm able.
> 
> You're just not worthy of my time.
> 
> Perhaps the third time's the charm.


Your problem is you don't have any idea what the truth is. In your little world a lie is the same as the truth if you repeat it often enough. You did not write the same thing I did, you fool. That is another one of those lies. You even lie to yourself. You say I'm not worthy of your time. Well that makes me very happy. So if you don't tell any more lies, then I won't comment on what you say.


----------



## soloweygirl

sumpleby said:


> President Obama has never treated either Netanyahu or Israel "as the enemy"--this is just mindless rhetoric from the right.


Obama certainly has not treated Israel as the ally she is either. The Obama administration released the top secret 1987 report on Israel's nuclear program. The 386 page report "describes in detail the march of Israeli military and technological advancement in the 1970's and 80's", according to Michael Karpin of the Jewish Daily Forward. Karpin says that the US report pays "particular attention to the development and progression of Israel's nuclear infrastructure and research labs" and to Israel's interest in a hydrogen bomb.

It's not a secret that Israel has nuclear capability, but the details have been unknown.

This move by Obama has been, without a doubt, a means to weaken Israel and make her vulnerable. This will hurt both Israel and America. Who will trust America after this behavior? The pathetic part is it's all because of Obama's hissy fit over Netanyahu giving a speech to Congress.


----------



## soloweygirl

sumpleby said:


> Democrats haven't "attacked" Cruz, they've just laughed. It is his fellow Republicans who've done the attacking, with few kind words.


I have to agree with your second sentence. It just proves they don't want change. They are comfortable with how the gov't is operating and want to see that it continues.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Solo, Bergdhals's Commanders have investigated his case and knew the charges to be brought against him nine or ten months ago. (not sure of the exact dates). (Army talked to onsite military witnesses, those who tried to find and return Bowe to his base, etc.) At least six military members were killed searching for the traitor and deserter, Bergdhal.
> 
> However, he hasn't been to trial yet which will be a military tribunal (equivalent to a civilian courtroom trial). Several high ranking Army Officers reviewed and investigated the case for a ridiculous period of time because <0 demanded it (of course the actual truth will never come out).
> 
> I fully believe Bowe would have also been charged with treason if <0 had not interfered. (Obama is panicked trying to save face*)
> 
> You're correct that <0 has interfered, unprecedented, and delayed the case, tribunal and justice for purely political reasons. <0 also got in his horrific photo OP and is now paying for his stupidity and interference.
> 
> *Least we forget, five top radical terrorists were traded for Bergdhal. (I know you know this Solo) :evil:


Ok, my mistake. I thought the tribunal was already held.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> I have no idea! I have read that many who went to school at the same time do not remember him.
> 
> Since he will not produce his school records, no one can know for sure.


What kind of ignorant does it take to read something on the Columbia web site and then still say you have no idea if he graduated or not. You conservatives must have too much fun passing on the lies, that you will never admit the truth, even when it has been proven. You won't believe the truth direct from the college, but will believe one person who says he didn't know him. Astounding!!!!!!


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry to say you are what is called a low-information voter.
> 
> Please, do not vote, if you don't follow and are not aware and knowledgable of those people wanting to serve and be elected to a position.
> 
> Your vote in that capacity would be a disservice to all Americans who care and pay attention and an insult to our most precious right.


Why not, you vote, and you are way more low information than anyone I know. I warned you, I would have to call you out on your lies.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes Cruz has been badmouthing Obamacare. Look on the bright side, Cruz just might be the best thing for Obamacare. Cruz just might prove that it is something that should be kept, not repealed. Then you pro Obamacare people can have an I Told You So party that can last up to the election.


No point in waiting, it already is an I told you so moment. He wants the ACA for himself, but not for anyone else. He wants the people he represents to continue to go without insurance, cause he cares that much about them????????


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Bravo! Now it will be up to the Repubs and Indepts to clean up the mess.


Ya right, clean up that stock market mess, it is so bad!!!!! And those jobs, OMG we don't want jobs!!!!!! You are such an idiot.


----------



## susanmos2000

Just got this from the Washington Post--what eight prominent Republicans have to say about Cruz and his decision to run. Hilarious!

Scott Walker
What he said: "It's great to have many excellent choices," on "Fox & Friends" Sunday.

Translation: Those excellent choices might or might not include Ted Cruz. I don't really have anything nice to say about him, but, hey, won't it be fun to have a huge primary again!?

Marco Rubio
What he said: "He's generated a lot of attention and excitement over the last few years in the Senate, so I think he'll be a very strong candidate," on "Daybreak with Drew Steele" Monday.

Translation: He's very loud and controversial, and some people like that, I guess.

Bobby Jindal
What he said: "We need a president who needs to do something, not just be somebody. We put a lot of thought into what the next president should do. I'm surprised others aren't doing that," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Wednesday.

Translation: He's a showhorse; I'm a workhorse.

Rand Paul
What he said: "We kind of come from the same wing of the party, and if you look at our voting records, you'll find that we're very very similar. I guess what makes us different is probably our approach to how we would make the party be bigger," on Fox News' "The Kelly File" Monday.

Translation: This guy has no chance of actually getting elected. I do. #Rand2016

Rick Perry
What he said: [nothing] Didn't answer a question about Cruz at a breakfast with reporters in Houston on Tuesday.

Translation: I really don't want to talk about the other Texan in the race.

Mitt Romney
What he said: "He is an extraordinarily gifted orator. ... He is a person of very sound capability and I think you're going to hear a lot from him," on Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" Tuesday.

Translation: Cruz can and will say a lot of things during this campaign, often with very strong oratorical skills. What do I think of those things? Next question.

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.)
What he said: "You know, we've got a lot of Texans who are running for president, so I'm going to watch from the sidelines," Politico interview Monday.

Translation: Texas is big, but not big enough that I want to be taking sides in this. Also, you didn't back me in my primary.

Donald Trump
What he said: "He uses the phrase 'make America great again.' That's my expression. ... I can't be too nice to him, you know I may be running against him so I can't be crazy here. I think he is a smart guy, he's a good guy," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Monday.

Translation: Give me attention.


----------



## NJG

Well here is someone else for you to imagine KPG. Tell us what you think about Bobby, although I don't think he is ready to announce yet, because of the big short fall he is trying to fix. I think he cut so much stuff he even forgot to leave money for the presidential primary

A Baton Rouge, La., hospital is closing the only emergency room on the city's impoverished north side, a real-world ripple effect of the ideological clash over President Barack Obama's health care law.

The shutdown on April 1 serves as an early warning for hospitals in states like Louisiana, where Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal turned down federal money to expand the Medicaid program for the poor. Charity hospitals will lose billions of federal aid beginning late next year, a cut that was supposed to be offset as more residents were covered by Medicaid.

In Louisiana, Baton Rouge General's Mid City hospital was already caught in that vise. It was flooded with the uninsured after a nearby charity hospital was closed. Louisiana provided a one-time injection of funds last year from the federal aid program that's about to be cut. With that money gone, the hospital is closing the emergency room.

Jindal inherited an $800 million budget surplus from his predecessor, Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D) -- and is now facing a $1.6 BILLION deficit?

That clearly makes him presidential material, doesn't it??? Republicans really know how to destroy the economy, and education is also getting cut everywhere there is a republican governor.


----------



## NJG

This shows where the republican hearts are and it's not with the people of their states. Pretty sad.

Throughout 2011 and 2012, Fallon was actually advocating that Oklahoma set up an exchange. That's until her attorney general, Scott Pruitt, wrote to her saying that he was going to sue the federal government, and if she pursued the state-based exchange and got it, "I will have to dismiss the lawsuit."

Suing the Obama administration was far more important to Fallon and Pruitt than making sure their constituents had affordable health insurance. That's not surprising anymore, really. It's just how Republicans work.


----------



## MarilynKnits

NJG said:


> Ya right, clean up that stock market mess, it is so bad!!!!! And those jobs, OMG we don't want jobs!!!!!! You are such an idiot.


Maybe if they cleaned up all the entitlements messes that benefit big business we would have something to be happy about. What they seem to want to clean up are programs that benefit the poor, the helpless, all those people Emma Lazarus wrote about.


----------



## MarilynKnits

susanmos2000 said:


> Just got this from the Washington Post--what eight prominent Republicans have to say about Cruz and his decision to run. Hilarious!
> 
> Scott Walker
> What he said: "It's great to have many excellent choices," on "Fox & Friends" Sunday.
> 
> Translation: Those excellent choices might or might not include Ted Cruz. I don't really have anything nice to say about him, but, hey, won't it be fun to have a huge primary again!?
> 
> Marco Rubio
> What he said: "He's generated a lot of attention and excitement over the last few years in the Senate, so I think he'll be a very strong candidate," on "Daybreak with Drew Steele" Monday.
> 
> Translation: He's very loud and controversial, and some people like that, I guess.
> 
> Bobby Jindal
> What he said: "We need a president who needs to do something, not just be somebody. We put a lot of thought into what the next president should do. I'm surprised others aren't doing that," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Wednesday.
> 
> Translation: He's a showhorse; I'm a workhorse.
> 
> Rand Paul
> What he said: "We kind of come from the same wing of the party, and if you look at our voting records, you'll find that we're very very similar. I guess what makes us different is probably our approach to how we would make the party be bigger," on Fox News' "The Kelly File" Monday.
> 
> Translation: This guy has no chance of actually getting elected. I do. #Rand2016
> 
> Rick Perry
> What he said: [nothing] Didn't answer a question about Cruz at a breakfast with reporters in Houston on Tuesday.
> 
> Translation: I really don't want to talk about the other Texan in the race.
> 
> Mitt Romney
> What he said: "He is an extraordinarily gifted orator. ... He is a person of very sound capability and I think you're going to hear a lot from him," on Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" Tuesday.
> 
> Translation: Cruz can and will say a lot of things during this campaign, often with very strong oratorical skills. What do I think of those things? Next question.
> 
> Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.)
> What he said: "You know, we've got a lot of Texans who are running for president, so I'm going to watch from the sidelines," Politico interview Monday.
> 
> Translation: Texas is big, but not big enough that I want to be taking sides in this. Also, you didn't back me in my primary.
> 
> Donald Trump
> What he said: "He uses the phrase 'make America great again.' That's my expression. ... I can't be too nice to him, you know I may be running against him so I can't be crazy here. I think he is a smart guy, he's a good guy," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Monday.
> 
> Translation: Give me attention.


And the secondary bubble over each head: "I'm so glad that nut case declared. Compared to him I will really look Presidential".


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:hunf:


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Hilarious, Cheeky. Here's my current favorite:


----------



## susanmos2000

This one's from the time of the government shut down, but it still makes me laugh.


----------



## cookiequeen

O


knitpresentgifts said:


> You might want to think about seeking and following the actual news instead of your favorite Dem pundits and talking heads so you can speak to the issues and not just repeat a DNC talking point.
> 
> Let's start with this: few known, but Obama, Jarrett and Kerry are currently in negotiations with Iran (without Congress - another story for another time). Iran is presently fighting against Israel along with ISIS and repeatedly states they (Iran) want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.
> 
> Meanwhile, the head honcho of Iran just led the chant "Death to America" a few days ago at the annual Death To Americans holiday Iran celebrates (hundreds in attendance, thousands throughout the country).
> 
> Remember, the WH Admin is NOW in Iran in secret negotiations.
> 
> Think back a few weeks when Bibi spoke to the US Congress and Obama refused to take a meeting with the PM of Israel, reprimanded him and his speech after the fact, gave a press conference dissing Bibi's words and encouraged and participated in a boycott to even HEAR the speech. <0 probably refused to attend the PM's luncheon as well. Obama's Admin sent out his press secretary who also bashed Bibi and Israel to do what he always does; spin and dodge the truth while saying nothing. Don't forget all the Dems on the Sunday shows doing the same.
> 
> Here's some more evidence: Obama used $350,000 of American taxpayers' $ to give to the primary person who ran Obama's presidential campaigns and sent both the person and $ to help effectuate the recent Israeli election with the hope of ousting Netanyahu.
> 
> Oh, btw, Obama is President of the USA - not Iran, not the UN or any other nation.
> 
> What part of "Death to America" and "Let's Wipe Israel off the face of the Map" do you not understand?
> 
> Where do you think Obama's priorities *should* lie and where do they lie?


Where are Iran and ISIS currently fighting Israel (as you say)?
And, the man's name is Bergdahl. B-e-r-g-d-a-h-l.


----------



## NJG

susanmos2000 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Hilarious, Cheeky. Here's my current favorite:


Hilarious, I have been calling it a circus, guess I was right and the clowns always come first. Funny funny


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> This one's from the time of the government shut down, but it still makes me laugh.


You can't go wrong with a Cruz or GOP cartoon. They are always hilarious and make me laugh!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> Well here is someone else for you to imagine KPG. Tell us what you think about Bobby, although I don't think he is ready to announce yet, because of the big short fall he is trying to fix. I think he cut so much stuff he even forgot to leave money for the presidential primary
> 
> A Baton Rouge, La., hospital is closing the only emergency room on the city's impoverished north side, a real-world ripple effect of the ideological clash over President Barack Obama's health care law.
> 
> The shutdown on April 1 serves as an early warning for hospitals in states like Louisiana, where Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal turned down federal money to expand the Medicaid program for the poor. Charity hospitals will lose billions of federal aid beginning late next year, a cut that was supposed to be offset as more residents were covered by Medicaid.
> 
> In Louisiana, Baton Rouge General's Mid City hospital was already caught in that vise. It was flooded with the uninsured after a nearby charity hospital was closed. Louisiana provided a one-time injection of funds last year from the federal aid program that's about to be cut. With that money gone, the hospital is closing the emergency room.
> 
> Jindal inherited an $800 million budget surplus from his predecessor, Gov. Kathleen Blanco (D) -- and is now facing a $1.6 BILLION deficit?
> 
> That clearly makes him presidential material, doesn't it??? Republicans really know how to destroy the economy, and education is also getting cut everywhere there is a republican governor.


NJG
isn
Isn't that typical for Republicans? Democrats clean up their mess, hand over a surplus and The Republicans squander it like a drunken Sailor.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:mrgreen:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> Just got this from the Washington Post--what eight prominent Republicans have to say about Cruz and his decision to run. Hilarious!
> 
> Scott Walker
> What he said: "It's great to have many excellent choices," on "Fox & Friends" Sunday.
> 
> Translation: Those excellent choices might or might not include Ted Cruz. I don't really have anything nice to say about him, but, hey, won't it be fun to have a huge primary again!?
> 
> Marco Rubio
> What he said: "He's generated a lot of attention and excitement over the last few years in the Senate, so I think he'll be a very strong candidate," on "Daybreak with Drew Steele" Monday.
> 
> Translation: He's very loud and controversial, and some people like that, I guess.
> 
> Bobby Jindal
> What he said: "We need a president who needs to do something, not just be somebody. We put a lot of thought into what the next president should do. I'm surprised others aren't doing that," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Wednesday.
> 
> Translation: He's a showhorse; I'm a workhorse.
> 
> Rand Paul
> What he said: "We kind of come from the same wing of the party, and if you look at our voting records, you'll find that we're very very similar. I guess what makes us different is probably our approach to how we would make the party be bigger," on Fox News' "The Kelly File" Monday.
> 
> Translation: This guy has no chance of actually getting elected. I do. #Rand2016
> 
> Rick Perry
> What he said: [nothing] Didn't answer a question about Cruz at a breakfast with reporters in Houston on Tuesday.
> 
> Translation: I really don't want to talk about the other Texan in the race.
> 
> Mitt Romney
> What he said: "He is an extraordinarily gifted orator. ... He is a person of very sound capability and I think you're going to hear a lot from him," on Fox News' "Your World with Neil Cavuto" Tuesday.
> 
> Translation: Cruz can and will say a lot of things during this campaign, often with very strong oratorical skills. What do I think of those things? Next question.
> 
> Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.)
> What he said: "You know, we've got a lot of Texans who are running for president, so I'm going to watch from the sidelines," Politico interview Monday.
> 
> Translation: Texas is big, but not big enough that I want to be taking sides in this. Also, you didn't back me in my primary.
> 
> Donald Trump
> What he said: "He uses the phrase 'make America great again.' That's my expression. ... I can't be too nice to him, you know I may be running against him so I can't be crazy here. I think he is a smart guy, he's a good guy," on Fox News' "Fox & Friends" Monday.
> 
> Translation: Give me attention.


susanmos2000
to me it sounds like a group of happy folks. Happy that this Actor is running and becomes their opponent. Who would not like that? Cruz would make a good Actor of the past. I am very sure that he practices in front of a Mirror and is very impressed with his performances. He seems good in memorizing. Just wonder his reaction if someone would interrupt him. Would love to see that.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :XD:


Cheeky Blighter
what is not to love about this.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :mrgreen:


Cheeky Blighter
adorable.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
I got to hand it to you, you dig up the greatest stuff. THANK YOU.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> I got to hand it to you, you dig up the greatest stuff. THANK YOU.


Thanks, Huck. Cruz just is a natural for great humor and the joke is always on him. Imagine he is a natural!


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Huck. Cruz just is a natural for great humor and the joke is always on him. Imagine he is a natural!


He sure is. Of course the SS Cruz sank three days out of port, but I find myself almost hoping that the clown managed to make it to a lifeboat--where are we going to get our jollies if Ringling Brothers star attraction went down with the ship?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Low information voters vote for Cruz 'cause they don't know no better. Right KPG! You would know. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:lol:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:mrgreen:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:hunf:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:roll:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:lol:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:mrgreen:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> He sure is. Of course the SS Cruz sank three days out of port, but I find myself almost hoping that the clown managed to make it to a lifeboat--where are we going to get our jollies if Ringling Brothers star attraction went down with the ship?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000

Love the rocks, Cheeky. Of course my personal favorite is basalt--you can see it there in my avatar. Isn't it a beaut?


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
I got to hand it to you, you dig up the greatest stuff. THANK YOU.


----------



## susanmos2000

:thumbdown:


----------



## susanmos2000

:mrgreen:


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> Love the rocks, Cheeky. Of course my personal favorite is basalt--you can see it there in my avatar. Isn't it a beaut?


susanmos2000
basalt has been used in times past to build some of the most fabulous structures which will stand most likely forever. It is a beaut.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> :mrgreen:


susanmos2000
no doubt, joy for Canada that this Clown no longer can call himself a Citizen of that wonderful country. Too bad we have to put up with him for a while.


----------



## susanmos2000

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> no doubt, joy for Canada that this Clown no longer can call himself a Citizen of that wonderful country.


I know it, Huck. I so envy Designer! I bet champagne corks are popping all over Canada.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> Love the rocks, Cheeky. Of course my personal favorite is basalt--you can see it there in my avatar. Isn't it a beaut?


susanmos2000
so do I.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Love the rocks, Cheeky. Of course my personal favorite is basalt--you can see it there in my avatar. Isn't it a beaut?


Simply stunning! There is nothing like a good chunk of basalt. I do prefer osmium myself as you can see in my avatar.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

One, two, three o'clock, four o'clock rock
Five, six, seven o'clock, eight o'clock rock
Nine, ten, eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock rock
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight

Put your glad rags on and join me hon'
We'll have some fun when the clock strikes one
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight
We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'till broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the clock tonight

When the clock strikes two, three and four
If the band slows down we'll yell for more
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight
We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'till broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the clock tonight

When the chimes ring five, six, and seven
We'll be right in seventh heaven
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight
We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'till broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the clock tonight

When it's eight, nine, ten, eleven too
I'll be goin' strong and so will you
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight
We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'till broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the clock tonight

When the clock strikes twelve we'll cool off then
Start rockin' 'round the clock again
We're gonna rock around the clock tonight
We're gonna rock, rock, rock, 'till broad daylight
We're gonna rock, gonna rock around the clock tonight

Songwriters
FREEDMAN, MAX / MYERS, JAMES



Read more: Bill Haley - Rock Around The Clock Lyrics | MetroLyrics


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## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> so do I.


Lovely rock, Huck!


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Simply stunning! There is nothing like a good chunk of basalt. I do prefer osmium myself as you can see in my avatar.


Heehee--love it, Cheeks!


----------



## susanmos2000

Love the rock samples, ladies. I've been brushing up on my geology lately, and really the study of rocks is simply fascinating.

Here's a bit about my personal favorite, basalt:

Basalt is a very common dark-colored volcanic rock composed of calcic plagioclase (usually labradorite), clinopyroxene (augite) and iron ore (titaniferous magnetite). Basalt may also contain olivine, quartz, hornblende, nepheline, orthopyroxene, etc. Basalt is a volcanic equivalent of gabbro.

[who knew?]

Basalt is usually black or dark gray and relatively featureless. It is composed of mineral grains which are mostly indistinguishable to the naked eye. Basalt may also contain volcanic glass. Basalt may contain phenocrysts (larger crystals within fine-grained groundmass) and vesicules (holes that were filled by volcanic gases). Black color is given to basalt by pyroxene and magnetite. Both of them contain iron and this is the reason why they are black. So this is iron again which is responsible for the coloration of basalt. Plagioclase, volumetrically usually the most important constituent, is mostly pale gray in color.

Basalt is a major rock type that occurs in virtually every tectonic setting. Basalt is clearly the most common volcanic rock on Earth and basaltic rocks (including gabbro, diabase and their metamorphosed equivalents) are the most common rocks in the crust2. Basalt is also common on the Moon and other rocky planets of the Solar System.

[Fascinating! There's a wealth of knowledge out there, no question]

What makes basalt so common? Basalt is the original constituent of the crust from which almost all other rock types have evolved. Basalt forms when mantle rocks (peridotite) start to melt. Rocks melt incongruently. It basically means that melt that forms has a different composition from the source rocks. Of course, it can only happen if rocks melt only partially but this is exactly what happens in the upper mantle. It melts partially to yield basaltic magma which is less dense and rises upward to form new oceanic crust in mid-ocean ridges or volcanoes and intrusives (dikes, sills) in many other tectonic regimes.

[A rock with an attitude. I like that.]


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--love it, Cheeks!


Why thank you and thanks for your interesting overview of the wonders of basalt.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Here is basalt in it's most interesting form.
This the Giant's Causeway in Northern Ireland.
It is said that this was formed so that Finn MCChuhil could walk across the ocean from Ireland to Scotland. Much more than interesting than Ted Cruz, right?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Osmium (from Greek osme (&#8000;&#963;&#956;&#942 meaning "smell") is a chemical element with symbol Os and atomic number 76. It is a hard, brittle, bluish-white transition metal in the platinum group that is found as a trace element in alloys, mostly in platinum ores. Osmium is the densest naturally occurring element, with a density of 22.59 g/cm3. Its alloys with platinum, iridium, and other platinum group metals are employed in fountain pen nibs, electrical contacts, and other applications where extreme durability and hardness are needed.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Here is another pretty rock and it's very durable too. I like practical rocks you can depend on.


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Osmium (from Greek osme (ὀσμή) meaning "smell") is a chemical element with symbol Os and atomic number 76. It is a hard, brittle, bluish-white transition metal in the platinum group that is found as a trace element in alloys, mostly in platinum ores. Osmium is the densest naturally occurring element, with a density of 22.59 g/cm3. Its alloys with platinum, iridium, and other platinum group metals are employed in fountain pen nibs, electrical contacts, and other applications where extreme durability and hardness are needed.


Durable and useful--my, that's a rock to be proud of!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Durable and useful--my, that's a rock to be proud of!


Thanks, Susan!


----------



## BrattyPatty

A bear with a head as hard as rock!!


----------



## susanmos2000

Quartz is pretty special, as well. I've given it some serious thought, and yes I have to list it as my second favorite.

Pure quartz, traditionally called rock crystal (sometimes called clear quartz), is colorless and transparent (clear) or translucent, and has often been used for hardstone carvings, such as the Lothair Crystal. Common colored varieties include citrine, rose quartz, amethyst, smoky quartz, milky quartz, and others. Quartz goes by an array of different names. The most important distinction between types of quartz is that of macrocrystalline (individual crystals visible to the unaided eye) and the microcrystalline or cryptocrystalline varieties (aggregates of crystals visible only under high magnification). The cryptocrystalline varieties are either translucent or mostly opaque, while the transparent varieties tend to be macrocrystalline. Chalcedony is a cryptocrystalline form of silica consisting of fine intergrowths of both quartz, and its monoclinic polymorph moganite. Other opaque gemstone varieties of quartz, or mixed rocks including quartz, often including contrasting bands or patterns of color, are agate, sard, onyx, carnelian, heliotrope, and jasper.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is basalt in it's most interesting form.
> This the Giant's Causeway in Northern Ireland.
> It is said that this was formed so that Finn MCChuhil could walk across the ocean from Ireland to Scotland. Much more than interesting than Ted Cruz, right?


No comparison, Patty. Love those lava flows! Not dull, boring and predictable like Ted.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Osmium
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For album by Parliament, see Osmium (album).
Osmium, 76Os Osmium crystals.jpg
General properties
Name, symbol osmium, Os
Pronunciation /ˈɒzmiəm/
OZ-mee-əm
Appearance silvery, blue cast
Osmium in the periodic table
Hydrogen (diatomic nonmetal)

Helium (noble gas)
Lithium (alkali metal)

Beryllium (alkaline earth metal)

Boron (metalloid)

Carbon (polyatomic nonmetal)

Nitrogen (diatomic nonmetal)

Oxygen (diatomic nonmetal)

Fluorine (diatomic nonmetal)

Neon (noble gas)
Sodium (alkali metal)

Magnesium (alkaline earth metal)

Aluminium (post-transition metal)

Silicon (metalloid)

Phosphorus (polyatomic nonmetal)

Sulfur (polyatomic nonmetal)

Chlorine (diatomic nonmetal)

Argon (noble gas)
Potassium (alkali metal)

Calcium (alkaline earth metal)

Scandium (transition metal)

Titanium (transition metal)

Vanadium (transition metal)

Chromium (transition metal)

Manganese (transition metal)

Iron (transition metal)

Cobalt (transition metal)

Nickel (transition metal)

Copper (transition metal)

Zinc (transition metal)

Gallium (post-transition metal)

Germanium (metalloid)

Arsenic (metalloid)

Selenium (polyatomic nonmetal)

Bromine (diatomic nonmetal)

Krypton (noble gas)
Rubidium (alkali metal)

Strontium (alkaline earth metal)

Yttrium (transition metal)

Zirconium (transition metal)

Niobium (transition metal)

Molybdenum (transition metal)

Technetium (transition metal)

Ruthenium (transition metal)

Rhodium (transition metal)

Palladium (transition metal)

Silver (transition metal)

Cadmium (transition metal)

Indium (post-transition metal)

Tin (post-transition metal)

Antimony (metalloid)

Tellurium (metalloid)

Iodine (diatomic nonmetal)

Xenon (noble gas)
Caesium (alkali metal)

Barium (alkaline earth metal)

Lanthanum (lanthanide)

Cerium (lanthanide)

Praseodymium (lanthanide)

Neodymium (lanthanide)

Promethium (lanthanide)

Samarium (lanthanide)

Europium (lanthanide)

Gadolinium (lanthanide)

Terbium (lanthanide)

Dysprosium (lanthanide)

Holmium (lanthanide)

Erbium (lanthanide)

Thulium (lanthanide)

Ytterbium (lanthanide)

Lutetium (lanthanide)

Hafnium (transition metal)

Tantalum (transition metal)

Tungsten (transition metal)

Rhenium (transition metal)

Osmium (transition metal)

Iridium (transition metal)

Platinum (transition metal)

Gold (transition metal)

Mercury (transition metal)

Thallium (post-transition metal)

Lead (post-transition metal)

Bismuth (post-transition metal)

Polonium (post-transition metal)

Astatine (metalloid)

Radon (noble gas)
Francium (alkali metal)

Radium (alkaline earth metal)

Actinium (actinide)

Thorium (actinide)

Protactinium (actinide)

Uranium (actinide)

Neptunium (actinide)

Plutonium (actinide)

Americium (actinide)

Curium (actinide)

Berkelium (actinide)

Californium (actinide)

Einsteinium (actinide)

Fermium (actinide)

Mendelevium (actinide)

Nobelium (actinide)

Lawrencium (actinide)

Rutherfordium (transition metal)

Dubnium (transition metal)

Seaborgium (transition metal)

Bohrium (transition metal)

Hassium (transition metal)

Meitnerium (unknown chemical properties)

Darmstadtium (unknown chemical properties)

Roentgenium (unknown chemical properties)

Copernicium (transition metal)

Ununtrium (unknown chemical properties)

Flerovium (post-transition metal)

Ununpentium (unknown chemical properties)

Livermorium (unknown chemical properties)

Ununseptium (unknown chemical properties)

Ununoctium (unknown chemical properties)
Ru
↑
Os
↓
Hs
rhenium ← osmium → iridium
Atomic number 76
Standard atomic weight (±) 190.23(3)[1]
Element category transition metal
Group, block group 8, d-block
Period period 6
Electron configuration [Xe] 4f14 5d6 6s2
per shell 2, 8, 18, 32, 14, 2
Physical properties
Phase solid
Melting point 3306 K ​(3033 °C, ​5491 °F)
Boiling point 5285 K ​(5012 °C, ​9054 °F)
Density near r.t. 22.59 g·cm−3
when liquid, at m.p. 20 g·cm−3
Heat of fusion 57.85 kJ·mol−1
Heat of vaporization 378 kJ·mol−1
Molar heat capacity 24.7 J·mol−1·K−1
vapor pressure
P (Pa) 1 10 100 1 k 10 k 100 k
at T (K) 3160 3423 3751 4148 4638 5256
Atomic properties
Oxidation states 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, −1, −2 ​(a mildly acidic oxide)
Electronegativity Pauling scale: 2.2
Ionization energies 1st: 840 kJ·mol−1
2nd: 1600 kJ·mol−1
Atomic radius empirical: 135 pm
Covalent radius 144±4 pm
Miscellanea
Crystal structure ​hexagonal close-packed (hcp)
Hexagonal close packed crystal structure for osmium
Speed of sound thin rod 4940 m·s−1 (at 20 °C)
Thermal expansion 5.1 µm·m−1·K−1 (at 25 °C)
Thermal conductivity 87.6 W·m−1·K−1
Electrical resistivity 81.2 nΩ·m (at 0 °C)
Magnetic ordering paramagnetic[2]
Shear modulus 222 GPa
Bulk modulus 462 GPa
Poisson ratio 0.25
Mohs hardness 7.0
Brinell hardness 34904000 MPa
CAS Registry Number 7440-04-2
History
Discovery and first isolation Smithson Tennant (1803)
Most stable isotopes
Main article: Isotopes of osmium
iso NA half-life DM DE (MeV) DP
184Os 0.02% >5.6×1013 y (β+β+) 1.451 184W
(α) 2.963 180W
185Os syn 93.6 d ε 1.013 185Re
186Os 1.59% 2.0×1015 y α 2.822 182W
187Os 1.96%  (α) 2.7202 183W
188Os 13.24%  (α) 2.1426 184W
189Os 16.15%  (α) 1.9757 185W
190Os 26.26%  (α) 1.3784 186W
191Os syn 15.4 d β− 0.314 191Ir
192Os 40.78% >9.8×1012 y (β−β−) 0.4135 192Pt
(α) 0.3622 188W
193Os syn 30.11 d β− 1.141 193Ir
194Os syn 6 y β− 0.097 194Ir
Decay modes in parentheses are predicted, but have not yet been observed

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· references

Osmium (from Greek osme (ὀσμή) meaning "smell") is a chemical element with symbol Os and atomic number 76. It is a hard, brittle, bluish-white transition metal in the platinum group that is found as a trace element in alloys, mostly in platinum ores. Osmium is the densest naturally occurring element, with a density of 22.59 g/cm3. Its alloys with platinum, iridium, and other platinum group metals are employed in fountain pen nibs, electrical contacts, and other applications where extreme durability and hardness are needed.[3]

Contents

1 Characteristics
1.1 Physical properties
1.2 Chemical properties
1.3 Isotopes
2 History
3 Occurrence
4 Production
5 Applications
6 Precautions
7 Price
8 References
9 External links

Characteristics
Physical properties
Osmium, remelted pellet

Osmium has a blue-gray tint and is the densest stable element, slightly denser than iridium.[4] Calculations of density from the X-ray diffraction data may produce the most reliable data for these elements, giving a value of 22.562±0.009 g/cm3 for iridium versus 22.587±0.009 g/cm3 for osmium.[5]

Osmium is a hard but brittle metal that remains lustrous even at high temperatures. It has a very low compressibility. Correspondingly, its bulk modulus is extremely high, reported between 395 and 462 GPa, which rivals that of diamond (443 GPa). The hardness of osmium is moderately high at 4 GPa.[6][7][8] Because of its hardness, brittleness, low vapor pressure (the lowest of the platinum group metals), and very high melting point (the fourth highest of all elements), solid osmium is difficult to machine, form, or work.
Chemical properties
See also: Category:Osmium compounds
Oxidation states of osmium
−2 Na
2[Os(CO)
4]
−1 Na
2[Os
4(CO)
13]
0 Os
3(CO)
12
+1 OsI
+2 OsI
2
+3 OsBr
3
+4 OsO
2, OsCl
4
+5 OsF
5
+6 OsF
6
+7 OsOF
5
+8 OsO
4, Os(NCH3)
4

Osmium forms compounds with oxidation states ranging from −2 to +8. The most common oxidation states are +2, +3, +4, and +8. The +8 oxidation state is notable for being the highest attained by any chemical element aside from iridium's +9,[9] and is encountered only in xenon,[10][11] ruthenium,[12] hassium,[13] iridium,[14] plutonium,[15] and curium (uncertain).[16] The oxidation states −1 and −2 represented by the two reactive compounds Na
2[Os
4(CO)
13] and Na
2[Os(CO)
4] are used in the synthesis of osmium cluster compounds.[17][18]

The most common compound exhibiting the +8 oxidation state is osmium tetroxide. This toxic compound is formed when powdered osmium is exposed to air, and is a very volatile, water-soluble, pale yellow, crystalline solid with a strong smell. Osmium powder has the characteristic smell of osmium tetroxide.[19] Osmium tetroxide forms red osmates OsO
4(OH)2−
2 upon reaction with a base. With ammonia, it forms the nitrido-osmates OsO
3N−
.[20][21][22] Osmium tetroxide boils at 130 °C and is a powerful oxidizing agent. By contrast, osmium dioxide (OsO2) is black, non-volatile, and much less reactive and toxic.

Only two osmium compounds have major applications: osmium tetroxide for staining tissue in electron microscopy and for the oxidation of alkenes in organic synthesis, and the non-volatile osmates for organic oxidation reactions.[23]

Osmium pentafluoride (OsF5) is known, but osmium trifluoride (OsF3) has not yet been synthesized. The lower oxidation states are stabilized by the larger halogens, so that the trichloride, tribromide, triiodide, and even diiodide are known. The oxidation state +1 is known only for osmium iodide (OsI), whereas several carbonyl complexes of osmium, such as triosmium dodecacarbonyl (Os
3(CO)
12), represent oxidation state 0.[20][21][24][25]

In general, the lower oxidation states of osmium are stabilized by ligands that are good σ-donors (such as amines) and π-acceptors (heterocycles containing nitrogen). The higher oxidation states are stabilized by strong σ- and π-donors, such as O2−
and N3−
.[26]

Despite its broad range of compounds in numerous oxidation states, osmium in bulk form at ordinary temperatures and pressures resists attack by all acids and alkalis, and even aqua regia.
Isotopes
Main article: Isotopes of osmium

Osmium has seven naturally occurring isotopes, six of which are stable: 184
Os, 187
Os, 188
Os, 189
Os, 190
Os, and (most abundant) 192
Os. 186
Os undergoes alpha decay with such a long half-life ((2.0±1.1)×1015 years) that for practical purposes it can be considered stable. Alpha decay is predicted for all seven naturally occurring isotopes, but it has been observed only for 186
Os, presumably due to very long half-lives. It is predicted that 184
Os and 192
Os can undergo double beta decay but this radioactivity has not been observed yet.[27]

187
Os is the daughter of 187
Re (half-life 4.56×1010 years) and is used extensively in dating terrestrial as well as meteoric rocks (see rhenium-osmium dating). It has also been used to measure the intensity of continental weathering over geologic time and to fix minimum ages for stabilization of the mantle roots of continental cratons. This decay is a reason why rhenium-rich minerals are abnormally rich in 187
Os.[28] However, the most notable application of Os isotopes in geology has been in conjunction with the abundance of iridium, to characterise the layer of shocked quartz along the CretaceousPaleogene boundary that marks the extinction of the dinosaurs 66 million years ago.[29]
History

Osmium was discovered in 1803 by Smithson Tennant and William Hyde Wollaston in London, England.[30] The discovery of osmium is intertwined with that of platinum and the other metals of the platinum group. Platinum reached Europe as platina ("small silver"), first encountered in the late 17th century in silver mines around the Chocó Department, in Colombia.[31] The discovery that this metal was not an alloy, but a distinct new element, was published in 1748.[32] Chemists who studied platinum dissolved it in aqua regia (a mixture of hydrochloric and nitric acids) to create soluble salts. They always observed a small amount of a dark, insoluble residue.[33] Joseph Louis Proust thought that the residue was graphite.[33] Victor Collet-Descotils, Antoine François, comte de Fourcroy, and Louis Nicolas Vauquelin also observed the black residue in 1803, but did not obtain enough material for further experiments.[33]

In 1803, Smithson Tennant analyzed the insoluble residue and concluded that it must contain a new metal. Vauquelin treated the powder alternately with alkali and acids[34] and obtained a volatile new oxide, which he believed to be of this new metalwhich he named ptene, from the Greek word πτηνος (ptènos) for winged.[35][36] However, Tennant, who had the advantage of a much larger amount of residue, continued his research and identified two previously undiscovered elements in the black residue, iridium and osmium.[33][34] He obtained a yellow solution (probably of cis[Os(OH)2O4]2−) by reactions with sodium hydroxide at red heat. After acidification he was able to distill the formed OsO4.[35] He named osmium after Greek osme meaning "a smell", because of the ashen and smoky smell of the volatile osmium tetroxide.[37] Discovery of the new elements was documented in a letter to the Royal Society on June 21, 1804.[33][38]

Uranium and osmium were early successful catalysts in the Haber process, the nitrogen fixation reaction of nitrogen and hydrogen to produce ammonia, giving enough yield to make the process economically successful. At the time, a group at BASF led by Carl Bosch bought most of the world's supply of osmium to use as a catalyst. Shortly thereafter, in 1908, cheaper catalysts based on iron and iron oxides were introduced by the same group for the first pilot plants, removing the need for the expensive and rare osmium.[39]

Nowadays osmium is obtained primarily from the processing of platinum and nickel ores.[40]
Occurrence
Native platinum containing traces of the other platinum group metals

Osmium is the least abundant stable element in Earth's crust with an average mass fraction of 50 parts per trillion in the continental crust.[41]

Osmium is found in nature as an uncombined element or in natural alloys; especially the iridiumosmium alloys, osmiridium (osmium rich), and iridosmium (iridium rich).[34] In nickel and copper deposits, the platinum group metals occur as sulfides (i.e., (Pt,Pd)S)), tellurides (e.g., PtBiTe), antimonides (e.g., PdSb), and arsenides (e.g., PtAs2); in all these compounds platinum is exchanged by a small amount of iridium and osmium. As with all of the platinum group metals, osmium can be found naturally in alloys with nickel or copper.[42]

Within Earth's crust, osmium, like iridium, is found at highest concentrations in three types of geologic structure: igneous deposits (crustal intrusions from below), impact craters, and deposits reworked from one of the former structures. The largest known primary reserves are in the Bushveld igneous complex in South Africa,[43] though the large coppernickel deposits near Norilsk in Russia, and the Sudbury Basin in Canada are also significant sources of osmium. Smaller reserves can be found in the United States.[43] The alluvial deposits used by pre-Columbian people in the Chocó Department, Colombia are still a source for platinum group metals. The second large alluvial deposit was found in the Ural Mountains, Russia, which is still mined.[40][44]
Production
Osmium crystals, grown by chemical vapor transport.

Osmium is obtained commercially as a by-product from nickel and copper mining and processing. During electrorefining of copper and nickel, noble metals such as silver, gold and the platinum group metals, together with non-metallic elements such as selenium and tellurium settle to the bottom of the cell as anode mud, which forms the starting material for their extraction.[45][46] In order to separate the metals, they must first be brought into solution. Several methods are available depending on the separation process and the composition of the mixture; two representative methods are fusion with sodium peroxide followed by dissolution in aqua regia, and dissolution in a mixture of chlorine with hydrochloric acid.[43][47] Osmium, ruthenium, rhodium and iridium can be separated from platinum, gold and base metals by their insolubility in aqua regia, leaving a solid residue. Rhodium can be separated from the residue by treatment with molten sodium bisulfate. The insoluble residue, containing Ru, Os and Ir, is treated with sodium oxide, in which Ir is insoluble, producing water-soluble Ru and Os salts. After oxidation to the volatile oxides, RuO
4 is separated from OsO
4 by precipitation of (NH4)3RuCl6 with ammonium chloride.

After it is dissolved, osmium is separated from the other platinum group metals by distillation or extraction with organic solvents of the volatile osmium tetroxide.[48] The first method is similar to the procedure used by Tennant and Wollaston. Both methods are suitable for industrial scale production. In either case, the product is reduced using hydrogen, yielding the metal as a powder or sponge that can be treated using powder metallurgy techniques.[49]

Neither the producers nor the United States Geological Survey published any production amounts for osmium. Estimations of the United States consumption date published from 1971,[50] which gives a consumption in the United States of 2000 troy ounces (62 kg), would suggest that the production is still less than 1 ton per year. In 2012, the estimated US production of osmium was 75 kg.[51]
Applications

Because of the volatility and extreme toxicity of its oxide, osmium is rarely used in its pure state, and is instead often alloyed with other metals. Those alloys are utilized in high-wear applications. Osmium alloys such as osmiridium are very hard and, along with other platinum group metals, are used in the tips of fountain pens, instrument pivots, and electrical contacts, as they can resist wear from frequent operation. They were also used for the tips of phonograph styli during the late 78 rpm and early "LP" and "45" record era, circa 1945 to 1955. Although very durable compared to steel and chromium needle points, osmium alloy tips wore out far more rapidly than competing but costlier sapphire and diamond tips and were discontinued.[52]

Osmium tetroxide has been used in fingerprint detection[53] and in staining fatty tissue for optical and electron microscopy. As a strong oxidant, it cross-links lipids mainly by reacting with unsaturated carbon-carbon bonds, and thereby both fixes biological membranes in place in tissue samples and simultaneously stains them. Because osmium atoms are extremely electron dense, osmium staining greatly enhances image contrast in transmission electron microscopy (TEM) studies of biological materials. Those carbon materials have otherwise very weak TEM contrast (see image).[23] Another osmium compound, osmium ferricyanide (OsFeCN), exhibits similar fixing and staining action.[54]

The tetroxide and a related compound, potassium osmate, are important oxidants for chemical synthesis, despite being very poisonous. For the Sharpless asymmetric dihydroxylation, which uses osmate for the conversion of a double bond into a vicinal diol, Karl Barry Sharpless won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2001.[55][56] Apparently, OsO4 is very expensive for this use, so KMnO4 is often used instead, even though the yields are less for this cheaper chemical reagent.[57]

In 1898 an Austrian chemist, Auer von Welsbach, developed the Oslamp with a filament made of osmium, which he introduced commercially in 1902. After only a few years, osmium was replaced by the more stable metal tungsten. Tungsten has the highest melting point of any metal, and using it in light bulbs increases the luminous efficacy and life of incandescent lamps.[35]

The light bulb manufacturer Osram (founded in 1906 when three German companies, Auer-Gesellschaft, AEG and Siemens & Halske, combined their lamp production facilities) derived its name from the elements of osmium and Wolfram (the latter is German for tungsten).[58]

Like palladium, powdered osmium effectively absorbs hydrogen atoms. This could make osmium a potential candidate for a metal hydride battery electrode. However, osmium is expensive and would react with potassium hydroxide, the most common battery electrolyte.[59]

Osmium has high reflectivity in the ultraviolet range of the electromagnetic spectrum; for example, at 600 Å osmium has a reflectivity twice that of gold.[60] This high reflectivity is desirable in space-based UV spectrometers which have reduced mirror sizes due to space limitations. Osmium-coated mirrors were flown in several space missions aboard the Space Shuttle, but it soon became clear that the oxygen radicals in the low earth orbit are abundant enough to significantly deteriorate the osmium layer.[61]

The only known clinical use of osmium appears to be for synovectomy in arthritic patients in Scandinavia.[62] It involves the local administration of osmium tetroxide (OsO4) which is a highly toxic compound. The lack of reports of long-term side effects suggest that osmium itself can be biocompatible, although this depends on the osmium compound administered. In 2011, osmium(VI)[63] and osmium(II) [64] compounds were reported to show anticancer activity in vivo, it indicated a promising future for using osmium compounds as anticancer drugs.[65]

Electron micrograph of (organic) plant tissue without (top) and with (bottom) OsO4 staining

The Sharpless dihydroxylation:
RL=Largest substituent; RM=Medium-sized substituent; RS=Smallest substituent

Post-flight appearance of Os, Ag, and Au mirrors from the front (left images) and rear panels of Space Shuttle. Blackening reveals oxidation due to irradiation by oxygen atoms.[66][67]

Precautions

Finely divided metallic osmium is pyrophoric[50] and reacts with oxygen at room temperature forming volatile osmium tetroxide. Some osmium compounds are also converted to the tetroxide if oxygen is present.[50] This makes osmium tetroxide the main source of contact with the environment.

Osmium tetroxide is highly volatile and penetrates skin readily, and is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and skin contact.[68] Airborne low concentrations of osmium tetroxide vapor can cause lung congestion and skin or eye damage, and should therefore be used in a fume hood.[19] Osmium tetroxide is rapidly reduced to relatively inert compounds by polyunsaturated vegetable oils, such as corn oil.[69]
Price

Osmium is usually sold as a minimum 99.9% pure powder. Like other precious metals, it is measured by troy weight and by grams. Its price in 2012 was about $400 per troy ounce (or about $13,000 per kilogram), depending on the quantity and its supplier.[70][71]
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Arblaster, J. W. (1989). "Densities of osmium and iridium: recalculations based upon a review of the latest crystallographic data". Platinum Metals Review 33 (1): 1416.
Arblaster, J. W. (1995). "Osmium, the Densest Metal Known". Platinum Metals Review 39 (4): 164.
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Juan, J.; de Ulloa, A. (1748). Relación histórica del viage a la América Meridional (in Spanish) 1. p. 606.
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Smil, Vaclav (2004). Enriching the Earth: Fritz Haber, Carl Bosch, and the Transformation of World Food Production. MIT Press. pp. 8086. ISBN 978-0-262-69313-4.
George, Micheal W. "2006 Minerals Yearbook: Platinum-Group Metals". United States Geological Survey USGS. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
Wedepohl, Hans K (1995). "The composition of the continental crust". Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 59 (7): 12171232. Bibcode:1995GeCoA..59.1217W. doi:10.1016/0016-7037(95)00038-2.
Xiao, Z.; Laplante, A. R. (2004). "Characterizing and recovering the platinum group mineralsa review". Minerals Engineering 17 (910): 961979. doi:10.1016/j.mineng.2004.04.001.
Seymour, R. J.; O'Farrelly, J. I. (2001). "Platinum-group metals". Kirk Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology. Wiley. doi:10.1002/0471238961.1612012019052513.a01.pub2.
"Commodity Report: Platinum-Group Metals". United States Geological Survey USGS. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
George, M. W. (2008). "Platinum-group metals" (PDF). U.S. Geological Survey Mineral Commodity Summaries (USGS Mineral Resources Program).
George, M. W. 2006 Minerals Yearbook: Platinum-Group Metals. United States Geological Survey USGS. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
Renner, H.; Schlamp, G.; Kleinwächter, I.; Drost, E. et al. (2002). "Platinum group metals and compounds". Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry. Wiley. doi:10.1002/14356007.a21_075.
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Hunt, L. B.; Lever, F. M. (1969). "Platinum Metals: A Survey of Productive Resources to industrial Uses". Platinum Metals Review 13 (4): 126138. Retrieved 2008-10-02.
Smith, Ivan C.; Carson, Bonnie L.; Ferguson, Thomas L. (1974). "Osmium: An Appraisal of Environmental Exposure". Environmental Health Perspectives 8: 201213. doi:10.2307/3428200. JSTOR 3428200. PMC 1474945. PMID 4470919.
"PLATINUM-GROUP METALS". USGS. Retrieved 27 May 2013.
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MacDonell, Herbert L. (1960). "The Use of Hydrogen Fluoride in the Development of Latent Fingerprints Found on Glass Surfaces". The Journal of Criminal Law, Criminology, and Police Science 51 (4): 465470. doi:10.2307/1140672. JSTOR 1140672.
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Colacot, T. J. (2002). "2001 Nobel Prize in Chemistry". Platinum Metals Review 46 (2): 8283.
Osmium tetroxide as a reagent in organic chemistry  Master Organic Chemistry. Masterorganicchemistry.com. Retrieved on 2012-12-07.
Bowers, B., B. (2001). "Scanning our past from London: the filament lamp and new materials". Proceedings of the IEEE 89 (3): 413415. doi:10.1109/5.915382.
Antonov, V. E.; Belash, I. T.; Malyshev, V. Yu.; Ponyatovsky, E. G. (1984). "The Solubility of Hydrogen in the Platinum Metals under High Pressure". Platinum Metals Revie 28 (4): 158163.
Torr, Marsha R. (1985). "Osmium coated diffraction grating in the Space Shuttle environment: performance". Applied Optics 24 (18): 2959. Bibcode:1985ApOpt..24.2959T. doi:10.1364/AO.24.002959. PMID 18223987.
Gull, T. R.; Herzig, H; Osantowski, JF; Toft, AR (1985). "Low earth orbit environmental effects on osmium and related optical thin-film coatings". Applied Optics 24 (16): 2660. Bibcode:1985ApOpt..24.2660G. doi:10.1364/AO.24.002660. PMID 18223936.
Sheppeard, H.; D. J. Ward (1980). "Intra-articular osmic acid in rheumatoid arthritis: five years' experience". Rheumatology 19 (1): 2529. doi:10.1093/rheumatology/19.1.25. PMID 7361025.
Lau, T.-C; W.-X. Ni; W.-L. Man; M. T.-W. Cheung et al. (2011). "Osmium(vi) complexes as a new class of potential anti-cancer agents". Chem. Commun 47 (7): 21402142. doi:10.1039/C0CC04515B.
Sadler, Peter; Steve D. Shnyder; Ying Fu; Abraha Habtemariam et al. (2011). "Anti-colorectal cancer activity of an organometallic osmium arene azopyridine complex". Med. Chem. Commun 2 (7): 666668. doi:10.1039/C1MD00075F.
Fu, Ying; Romero, María J.; Habtemariam, Abraha et al. (2012). "The contrasting chemical reactivity of potent isoelectronic iminopyridine and azopyridine osmium(II) arene anticancer complexes". Chemical Science 3 (8): 24852494. doi:10.1039/C2SC20220D.
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Luttrell, William E.; Giles, Cory B. (2007). "Toxic tips: Osmium tetroxide". Journal of Chemical Health and Safety 14 (5): 4041. doi:10.1016/j.jchas.2007.07.003.
"How to Handle Osmium Tetroxide". University of California, San Diego. Retrieved 2009-06-02.
Osmium. Los Alamos National Laboratory's Chemistry Division

Live Osmium prices. TaxFreeGold.com. Accessed 6 April 2010

External links
Wikimedia Commons has media related to Osmium.
Look up osmium in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

Chemistry in its element podcast (MP3) from the Royal Society of Chemistry's Chemistry World: Osmium
Osmium at The Periodic Table of Videos (University of Nottingham)
FLEGENHEIMER, J. (2014). The mystery of the disappearing isotope. Revista Virtual de Química. V. XX. Available at http://www.uff.br/RVQ/index.php/rvq/article/viewFile/660/450

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Periodic table (Large cells)
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1 H He
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3 Na Mg Al Si P S Cl Ar
4 K Ca Sc Ti V Cr Mn Fe Co Ni Cu Zn Ga Ge As Se Br Kr
5 Rb Sr Y Zr Nb Mo Tc Ru Rh Pd Ag Cd In Sn Sb Te  I  Xe
6 Cs Ba La Ce Pr Nd Pm Sm Eu Gd Tb Dy Ho Er Tm Yb Lu Hf Ta W Re Os Ir Pt Au Hg Tl Pb Bi Po At Rn
7 Fr Ra Ac Th Pa U Np Pu Am Cm Bk Cf Es Fm Md No Lr Rf Db Sg Bh Hs Mt Ds Rg Cn 113 Fl 115 Lv 117 118
Alkali metal Alkaline earth metal Lan­thanide Actinide Transition metal Post-​transition metal Metalloid Polyatomic nonmetal Diatomic nonmetal Noble gas Unknown
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## BrattyPatty

A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.


----------



## susanmos2000

Quartz is so versatilve--comes in many varieties:

Citrine is a variety of quartz whose color ranges from a pale yellow to brown due to ferric impurities. Natural citrines are rare; most commercial citrines are heat-treated amethysts or smoky quartzes. However, a heat-treated amethyst will have small lines in the crystal, as opposed to a natural citrine's cloudy or smokey appearance. It is nearly impossible to tell cut citrine from yellow topaz visually, but they differ in hardness.Brazil is the leading producer of citrine, with much of its production coming from the state of Rio Grande do Sul. The name is derived from Latin citrina which means "yellow" and is also the origin of the word "citron." Sometimes citrine and amethyst can be found together in the same crystal, which is then referred to as ametrine.

And then there's rose :

An elephant carved in rose quartz, 10 cm (4 inches) long
Rose quartz is a type of quartz which exhibits a pale pink to rose red hue. The color is usually considered as due to trace amounts of titanium, iron, or manganese, in the massive material. Some rose quartz contains microscopic rutile needles which produces an asterism in transmitted light. Recent X-ray diffraction studies suggest that the color is due to thin microscopic fibers of possibly dumortierite within the massive quartz.

Additionally, there is a rare type of pink quartz (also frequently called crystalline rose quartz) with color that is thought to be caused by trace amounts of phosphate or aluminium. The color in crystals is apparently photosensitive and subject to fading. The first crystals were found in a pegmatite found near Rumford, Maine, USA, but most crystals on the market come from Minas Gerais, Brazil.

We probably all are familiar with amethysts, of course:

Amethyst is a popular form of quartz that ranges from a bright to dark or dull purple color. The world's largest deposits of amethysts can be found in Brazil, Mexico, Uruguay, Russia, France, Namibia and Morocco. Sometimes amethyst and citrine are found growing in the same crystal. It is then referred to as ametrine. An amethyst is formed when there is iron in the area where it was formed.

Smoky quartz--my oh my, how you glow!

Smoky quartz is a gray, translucent version of quartz. It ranges in clarity from almost complete transparency to a brownish-gray crystal that is almost opaque. Some can also be black.

Milky quartz--last but not least:

Ancient Roman cameo onyx engraved gem of Augustus
Milk quartz or milky quartz may be the most common variety of crystalline quartz and can be found almost anywhere. The white color may be caused by minute fluid inclusions of gas, liquid, or both, trapped during the crystal formation. The cloudiness caused by the inclusions effectively bars its use in most optical and quality gemstone applications.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Corundum is a very hard, tough, and stable mineral. For all practical purposes, it is the hardest mineral after Diamond, making it the second hardest mineral. It is also unaffected by acids and most environments. Translucent brown Corundum and Emery are the most common forms of Corundum


----------



## BrattyPatty

What Is Basalt, How Does It Form and How Is It Used?

What is Basalt?


Basalt is a dark-colored, fine-grained, igneous rock composed mainly of plagioclase and pyroxene minerals. It most commonly forms as an extrusive rock, such as a lava flow, but can also form in small intrusive bodies, such as an igneous dike or a thin sill. It has a composition similar to gabbro. The difference between basalt and gabbro is that basalt is a fine-grained rock while gabbro is a coarse-grained rock.


Earth's Most Abundant Bedrock


Basalt underlies more of Earth's surface than any other rock type. Most areas within Earth's ocean basins are underlain by basalt. Although basalt is much less common on continents, lava flows and flood basalts underlie several percent of Earth's land surface. Basalt is a very important rock.


Basalt on Moon and Mars


Rock Kit
Rock & Mineral Kits: Get a rock, mineral or fossil kit to learn more about earth materials.
Basalt is also an abundant rock on the Moon. Much of the Moon's surface is underlain by basaltic lava flows and flood basalts. These areas of the Moon are known as "lunar maria." Large areas of the Moon have been resurfaced by extensive basalt flows which may have been triggered by major impact events. The ages of lunar maria can be estimated by observing the density of impact craters on their surface. Younger basalt flows will have fewer craters.

Olympus Mons is a shield volcano on Mars. It, like most other volcanic features on Mars, was formed from basaltic lava flows. It is the highest mountain on Mars and is the largest known volcano in our solar system.


Olympus Mons volcano
Olympus Mons Volcano: This shield volcano is composed of basalt and has enormous calderas at the summit. Olympus Mons is the highest topographic feature on Mars and is the largest known volcano in our solar system. It is about 375 miles (600 kilometers) in diameter and 15 miles (25 kilometers) high. NASA Mars Orbiter Camera image.


Basalt-Forming Environments


Most of the basalt found on Earth was produced in just three rock-forming environments: 1) oceanic divergent boundaries, 2) oceanic hotspots, and 3) mantle plumes and hotspots beneath continents. The images below feature some of these basalt-forming environments.


Basalts at Oceanic Divergent Boundaries


Sea floor pillow basalts
Sea floor pillow basalts on the Juan de Fuca Ridge, a divergent plate boundary located about 150 miles (240 kilometers) west of the Washington-Oregon coast. This lava flow produced by a fissure eruption was about five years old when the photograph was taken. NOAA Ocean Explorer image.
Most of Earth's basalt is produced at divergent plate boundaries on the mid-ocean ridge system (see map below). Here convection currents deliver hot rock from deep in the mantle. This hot rock melts as the divergent boundary pulls apart and erupts onto the sea floor. These submarine fissure eruptions often produce pillow basalts as shown in the image at right.

The active mid-ocean ridges host repeated fissure eruptions. Most of this activity is unnoticed because these boundaries are under great depths of water. At these deep locations, any steam, ash or gas produced is absorbed by the water column and does not reach the surface. Earthquake activity is the only signal to humans that many of these deep ocean ridge eruptions provide. However, Iceland is a location where a mid-ocean ridge has been lifted above sea level. There people can directly observe this volcanic activity.



Oceanic Hotspots


Another location where significant amounts of basalt is produced is above oceanic hotspots. These are locations (see map above) where a small plume of hot rock rises up through the mantle from a hotspot on Earth's core. The Hawaiian Islands are an example of where basaltic volcanoes have been built above an oceanic hotspot.

Basalt production at these locations begins with an eruption on the ocean floor. If the hotspot is sustained, repeated eruptions can build the volcanic cone larger and larger until it becomes high enough to become an island. All of the islands in the Hawaiian Island chain were built up from basalt eruptions on the sea floor.


Plumes & Hotspots Below Continents


Columbia River Flood Basalts Map
A map of the area underlain by the Columbia River Flood Basalts in Washington, Oregon, and Idaho. The area shown is what has not yet been eroded away - the original extent of these basalt flows was much greater. Over 300 individual flows have been identified and several hundred meters of basalt underlies much of the area shown in the map above. Map © by Geology.com and MapResources.com.
The third basalt-forming environment is a continental environment where a mantle plume or hotspot delivers enormous amounts of basaltic lava through the continental crust and up to Earth's surface. These eruptions can be from either vents or fissures. They have produced the largest basalt flows on the continents. The eruptions can occur repeatedly over millions of years producing layer after layer of basalt stacked in a vertical sequence (see outcrop photo at right).

The Columbia River Flood Basalts in Washington, Oregon and Idaho are an example of extensive flood basalts on land (see map at right). Other examples include the Emeishan Traps of China, the Deccan Traps of India, the Keweenawan Lavas of the Lake Superior region, the Etendeka Basalts of Namibia, the Karroo Basalts of South Africa and the Siberian Traps of Russia. (The word "traps" is derived from the Swedish word for "stairs" which describes the outcrop profile of these layered basalt deposits see photo below).


Uses of Basalt


Basalt is used for a wide variety of purposes. It is most commonly crushed for use as an aggregate in construction projects. Crushed basalt is used for road base, concrete aggregate, asphalt pavement aggregate, railroad ballast, filter stone in drain fields and may other purposes. Basalt is also cut into dimension stone. Thin slabs of basalt are cut and sometimes polished for use as floor tiles, building veneer, monuments and other stone objects.

More useful than Ted Cruz!!


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## susanmos2000

This is carved from rose quartz--it's beautiful, but it seems almost sacrilegious to hew the GOP symbol from such a fine and beautiful stone.


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## susanmos2000

Now that's more like it!


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## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Corundum is a very hard, tough, and stable mineral. For all practical purposes, it is the hardest mineral after Diamond, making it the second hardest mineral. It is also unaffected by acids and most environments. Translucent brown Corundum and Emery are the most common forms of Corundum


That's very interesting, Patty. Wonder why it isn't used for jewelry? It certainly is pretty--and (apparently) sturdy as all get out.


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## susanmos2000

And then there's granite--the stuff Mount Rushmore was carved from.


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## BrattyPatty

Did you know that amethyst is a member of the quartz group?
Myth has it that this is the stone of protection.
May it protect us from the republican party!


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## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> And then there's granite--the stuff Mount Rushmore was carved from.


Oh the four fore heads??


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## susanmos2000

Sad but true.


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## BrattyPatty

Moonstone Gemstone meaning:
passionate love that will fly you to the moon

It is said if you give your lover a moonstone necklace when the moon is full you will always have passion with each other. Moonstone is a highly valued gemstone for these reasons:

Brings good fortune
Assists in foretelling the future
Enhances intuition
Promotes inspiration
Brings success in love as well as business matters
Offers protection on land and at sea 

The moonstone is associated with the moon and was the stone of the goddess Diana. The most powerful time to use the moonstone is in a full moon.

It has been worn as an amulet to bring good emotions to the wearer, while protecting those of a sensitive nature. It can reunite lovers who have quarreled. Moonstone is also considered a good luck stone.

Moonstone is a very personal stone. It is a reflection of the person who owns it. It does not add or detract, only shows how it is. This is why the moonstone is said to perceive that which "is". Moonstone is an excellent stone to use in meditation to understand oneself. Placing it in the moonlight of a moon reaching its fullness, not a full or waning moon, can revitalize it. This is a particularly good gemstone for women. It is a good stone for young women or teenagers.
Healing properties of Moonstone

Moonstone is used by healers to stimulate the functioning of the pineal gland and balance internal hormone cycles with nature's rhythms. Moonstone is a stone of inner growth and strength. Though often considered to be a woman's stone, it can be beneficial to men in opening the emotional self.
Sources of moonstone

There are two moonstones. Adularia moonstone is an almost transparent pale gray or silvery white or blue shimmer. It is mainly found in Sri Lanka, Burma, India and Madagascar. Albite moonstone is in the feldspar group. It is semitransparent with a pale, shimmering reflection. It may be a little dull. It comes mainly from Canada.


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## Cheeky Blighter

Rocks are very useful.


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## BrattyPatty

Moonstone Gemstone meaning:
passionate love that will fly you to the moon

It is said if you give your lover a moonstone necklace when the moon is full you will always have passion with each other. Moonstone is a highly valued gemstone for these reasons:

Brings good fortune
Assists in foretelling the future
Enhances intuition
Promotes inspiration
Brings success in love as well as business matters
Offers protection on land and at sea 

The moonstone is associated with the moon and was the stone of the goddess Diana. The most powerful time to use the moonstone is in a full moon.

It has been worn as an amulet to bring good emotions to the wearer, while protecting those of a sensitive nature. It can reunite lovers who have quarreled. Moonstone is also considered a good luck stone.

Moonstone is a very personal stone. It is a reflection of the person who owns it. It does not add or detract, only shows how it is. This is why the moonstone is said to perceive that which "is". Moonstone is an excellent stone to use in meditation to understand oneself. Placing it in the moonlight of a moon reaching its fullness, not a full or waning moon, can revitalize it. This is a particularly good gemstone for women. It is a good stone for young women or teenagers.
Healing properties of Moonstone

Moonstone is used by healers to stimulate the functioning of the pineal gland and balance internal hormone cycles with nature's rhythms. Moonstone is a stone of inner growth and strength. Though often considered to be a woman's stone, it can be beneficial to men in opening the emotional self.
Sources of moonstone

There are two moonstones. Adularia moonstone is an almost transparent pale gray or silvery white or blue shimmer. It is mainly found in Sri Lanka, Burma, India and Madagascar. Albite moonstone is in the feldspar group. It is semitransparent with a pale, shimmering reflection. It may be a little dull. It comes mainly from Canada.

Almost as dull as Ted Cruz


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## BrattyPatty

Dumber than osmium and basalt


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## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you know that amethyst is a member of the quartz group?
> Myth has it that is the stone of protection.
> May it protect us from the republican party!


We may need more than that, Patty--best add a vial of Holy Water and a bushel of garlic.


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## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> We may need more than that, Patty--best add a vial of Holy Water and a bushel of garlic.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Cheeky Blighter

Purple Amethyst has been highly esteemed throughout the ages for its stunning beauty and legendary powers to stimulate, and soothe, the mind and emotions. It is a semi-precious stone in todays classifications, but to the ancients it was a Gem of Fire, a Precious Stone worth, at times in history, as much as a Diamond. It has always been associated with February, the month the Romans dedicated to Neptune, their water-god, and is the traditional birthstone of that month. It is the stone of St. Valentine and faithful love, and signifies ecclesiastical dignity as the Bishops Stone. It carries the energy of fire and passion, creativity and spirituality, yet bears the logic of temperance and sobriety. [Fernie, 170-171][Mella, 73][Eason, 212]

Whether its crystals are left natural, polished as tumblestones, or faceted into magnificent jewels, Amethyst is a gem whose beauty transcends its commonality. It is a variety of Quartz found in many locations around the world, and forms as transparent, terminated crystals of all sizes in geodes, clusters and as long single terminations. It is also found in vitreous masses and polished into wonderful specimens and personal talismans. The presence of manganese in clear Quartz produces Amethyst, while additional amounts of iron vary the purple coloration. Amethyst ranges in hue from pale red-violet to deep violet, and may be transparent or opaque. It is sometimes layered with white Quartz as Chevron Amethyst, found in combination with Cacoxenite, mixed with Citrine as Ametrine, or in rare cases, rutilated with Goethite. (See paragraphs below.) [Melody, 109][Hall, 53]

The name Amethyst derives from the Greek word ametusthos, meaning not intoxicated, and comes from an ancient legend. The wine god Bacchus, angry over an insult and determined to avenge himself decreed the first person he should meet would be devoured by his tigers. The unfortunate mortal happened to be a beautiful maiden named Amethyst on her way to worship at the shrine of Diana. As the ferocious beasts sprang, she sought the protection of the goddess and was saved by being turned into a clear, white crystal. Bacchus, regretting his cruelty, poured the juice of his grapes over the stone as an offering, giving the gem its lovely purple hue. [Megemont, 24][Kunz, 58-59][Simmons, 28] (See the Legends and Lore section for an alternate version.)

Throughout history the special virtue of Amethyst has been that of preventing drunkenness and overindulgence. Ancient Greeks and Romans routinely studded their goblets with Amethyst believing wine drunk from an Amethyst cup was powerless to intoxicate, and a stone worn on the body, especially at the navel, had a sobering effect, not only for inebriation but in over-zealousness in passion. Catholic bishops also wore Amethyst in a ring to protect from mystical intoxication. Kissing the ring kept others from similar mystical intoxication and kept them grounded in spiritual thought. [Fernie, 169-170][Kunz, 58][Mella, 73][Megemont, 24-25]

Amethyst was also reputed to control evil thoughts, increase intelligence and render men shrewd in business matters. For travelers it was worn as a protection from treachery and surprise attacks, kept soldiers from harm and gave them victory over their enemies. It lent assistance to hunters in the capture of wild beasts and fowl, and was considered to be a powerful psychic stone of protection against witchcraft and black magic. Like other royal stones it protected its wearer from disease and contagion. [Kunz, 58][Fernie, 170][Mella, 72-73]

In the spiritual world, Amethyst provided a connection to the Divine. To the Hebrews, it was Ahlamah, the ninth stone in the breastplate of the High Priest, engraved with the tribe of Dan, as well as the twelfth foundation stone for the New Jerusalem. To the Egyptians, it was Hemag, listed in the Book of the Dead to be carved into heart-shaped amulets for burial. In Eastern cultures, it was listed in descriptions of sacred gem-cities, trees of life, and used in temple offerings for worship, and to align planetary and astrological influences. It was popular in rosaries and prayer beads, credited with creating an atmosphere of pious calm, imbuing a sense of mental peace and quietude. [Kunz, 236-243, 297, 302-202][Fernie, 169]

In todays world, Amethyst is still a remarkable stone of spirituality and contentment, known for its metaphysical abilities to still the mind and inspire an enhanced meditative state. Its inherent high frequency purifies the aura of any negative energy or attachments, and creates a protective shield of Light around the body, allowing one to remain clear and centered while opening to spiritual direction. Amethyst stimulates the Third Eye, Crown and Etheric Chakras enhancing cognitive perception as well as accelerating the development of intuitive and psychic ability. It initiates wisdom and greater understanding, and is a stone of comfort for those grieving the loss of a loved one. [Melody, 109][Simmons, 28][Ahsian, 29][Raphaell, 80]

Amethysts ability to expand the higher mind also enhances ones creativity and passion. It strengthens the imagination and intuition, and refines the thinking processes. It helps in the assimilation of new ideas, putting thought into action, and brings projects to fruition. It is a talisman of focus and success. [Megemont, 25]

In nature, Amethyst at times forms in combination with other minerals. In addition to the properties of Amethyst outlined in this article, the following varieties possess additional qualities.

Brandberg Amethyst is a unique and extraordinary blend of Amethyst, Clear and Smoky Quartz together in one exceedingly high-vibrational crystal. It is found only in Namibia, Africa, and is imbued with remarkable phantoms, enhydros, and other rare formations and inclusions. It attunes to pure consciousness and is a potent talisman of healing and perfection with the capacity to restore one back to their etheric blueprint in order to realign with the Divine Source. [Hall II, 232-234][Hall Cr, 140][101 Hall, 60]

Chevron Amethyst displays v-shaped chevrons of deep purple and white Quartz that seep into beautiful layers. It is one of the finest Third-Eye stones for stimulating vision within the self as well as the physical world, filtering the life force from the cosmos via the Crown in its white layers and opening up spiritual and psychic channels through the purple. It has a strong, focused energy for dissipating and repelling negativity, and is the perfect crystal for learning any form of spiritual healing. Hold one in each hand for powerful but safe out-of-body travel, shamanic journeying or pathworking, and between the hands while praying or reciting mantras. [Eason, 310][Hall, 56][Melody, 112]

Cacoxenite in Amethyst mingles dark brown to yellow tufts of Cacoxenite, a phosphate mineral and major component in the Super Seven crystal, with the host crystal Amethyst. This combination brings a high level of creativity and new ideas to humanity by fostering thoughts that have never been thought of before. It is a calming stone, good in times of upheaval, and raises spiritual awareness of the creator essence in the beauty of nature and the kindness in people. Carry on the night of the crescent and full moon to transfer healing energy to the Earth and create an ethereal connection between all of the universe. [Eason, 105][Melody, 177]

Ametrine is a combination of Amethyst and Citrine within the same crystal, a harmonious blend of the two energies. It brings spirituality into harmony with the intellect and inspires a profound flow of creativity, new ideas and insights. It is a remarkable healing stone, removing pain and tension while bringing energy and a sense of well-being to the mind and body. It brings greater focus in meditation, protection in astral travel and is a gateway crystal for opening angelic or spirit guide contact. Leave in natural light from noon on the day of a full moon and through the night to catch lunar rays then carry on the person to bring luck in money ventures. [Simmons, 30][Eason, 311][Melody, 114]

Rutilated Amethyst is a rare form of Amethyst which appears to contain Rutile, but actually contains brownish crystals of Goethite, an iron hydroxide mineral also found in the Super Seven crystal. Goethite is a stone for finding the link between the deep self and Earth, and together with Amethyst clears the Earth and Base Chakras, aligning the whole chakra system to the higher mind. It purifies the emotional body and is particularly helpful in grief work. It facilitates clairaudience, communion with angels, and connections with other worlds. To program as a wishing stone or with intentions, messages, and prayers, simply hold the stone with the intent in mind. [Melody, 111, 297][Hall II, 143][Ahsian, 178]

Amethyst is an exceptional crystal for wearing on the body, for use in healing rituals, and for enhancing ones environment. It has been known to fade in direct sunlight and care should be taken. It is also good to clear its energies from time to time by holding the stone under running water for a short period while affirming that the stone be cleared. Keep unpolished Amethyst near other crystals to recharge them. [Hall, 55][Ahsian, 28][Eason, 212]

Amethyst Uses and Purposes - Overview

Amethyst is a wonderful talisman for use in the creative arts, especially in darker shades. It assists endeavors where new, original results need to be created using tools and methods of the past. It is often used as the Artists Stone, the Composers Stone, the Inventors, Poets and Painters Stones. Keep an Amethyst crystal or cluster in the area to focus and amplify the creative elements of the Universal Life Force.

Called the All-healer, Amethyst is one of the most effective crystals for healing people, plants and animals. Natural unpolished Amethysts or geodes are particularly helpful placed where plants will not grow or animals refuse to sit. It also counteracts negative earth energies beneath buildings or anywhere that feels hostile. [Eason, 212][Hall, 54]

Amethyst protects against psychic attack, paranormal harm or ill-wishing, and returns the energy back to the universe after being transformed into positive, loving energy. To increase this power and attract good luck, draw an image of the sun and the crescent moon over an Amethyst in lavender incense smoke. [Melody, 110][Eason, 212]

Referred to as natures tranquilizer, Amethyst calms and soothes, assisting the transmission of neural signals through the brain. It relieves obsessive compulsive disorder and hyperactivity in children and animals. Place under the pillow or mattress, or rub the center of the forehead counter-clockwise to cure insomnia and stimulate pleasant dreams. It is especially effective for childrens recurring nightmares and fears of the dark, and may help alleviate homesickness. [Eason, 212][Hall, 54][Megemont, 25]

Amethyst is an excellent stone for diplomats, negotiators and business people. It calms angry temperaments and gives a distinct advantage in situations where debating is required. Wear or hold Amethyst to bring in spiritual insights coupled with intellectual reasoning. [Megemont, 26][Melody, 111] As a luck and prosperity crystal, Amethyst is good for reducing the tendency to overspend, gambling addictions or unwise investments. [Eason, 44]

Amethyst is connected to the Temperance card in the tarot, representing balance. It is a stone dedicated to curbing overindulgence and bad habits, and is an excellent aid to quitting smoking, drinking and drug use, as well as unhealthy physical passion. It also provides the strength needed to obtain freedom from addictive personalities, ones own or anothers. Placing an Amethyst on the navel is believed to protect a person from intoxication, and in conjunction with other treatments such as counseling, helps cure addictions. A naval piercing makes it possible to always keep an Amethyst in this spot. [Megemont, 25][Simmons, 28][Melody, 110]

Amethyst is the stone of St. Valentine and of faithful lovers because St. Valentine was thought to have worn an Amethyst ring engraved with the image of Cupid. It is also referred to as the couples stone and gives meaning to relationships that over time, transcends the carnal union and gives way to deeper connection and a more soulful communion. Wear as an engagement or eternity ring for fidelity, or as a locket to call back lost love. [Eason, 212][Megemont, 25]

Amethyst Healing Therapies - Overview

(Please note: Information on this web site is no substitute for consulting a health care professional. All information contained on this web site, including information relating to medical and health conditions, products and treatments, is for informational purposes only. Please see your doctor or health care professional before starting any alternative treatments, diets, supplements or exercise programs.)

Amethyst has healing powers to help with physical ailments, emotional issues, and in Energy Healing and Chakra balancing. Amethyst crystal therapies are primarily associated with physical ailments of the nervous system, the curing of nightmares and insomnia, and balancing the crown chakra. The therapeutic uses of Amethyst have a long and well-documented history.

Amethyst Physical Healing Energy

Amethyst boosts the production of hormones, and stimulates the sympathetic nervous system and endocrine glands to optimum performance. It supports oxygenation in the blood, and aids in treatments of the digestive tract, heart, stomach, and skin. Amethyst also strengthens the immune system and reduces bruising, pain and swellings. It has been used with excellent results as an elixir in the treatment of arthritis. [Melody, 111][Hall, 55][Gienger, 13]

Amethyst is thought to relieve the symptoms of tinnitus and other hearing disorders, and is highly beneficial in treating insomnia, especially when caused by an overactive mind. It is calming and soothing to the neural impulses in the brain. Its energy ameliorates the pain of headaches and migraines, and reduces stress and nervous tension. It may be used to treat psychic disturbances and to stabilize brain imbalances, but should not be used in cases of paranoia or schizophrenia. [Hall, 54-55][Melody, 111][Megemont, 25][Ahsian, 30]

Amethyst Emotional Healing Energy

Amethyst is especially supportive of the emotional body, bringing those who are overworked, overstressed, or overwhelmed back to center. It eases the mental anxieties that lead to physical tension and headaches, and is a great crystal to calm those who tend to be hot-headed and easily angered. [Raphaell, 80][Gienger, 13]

Amethyst helps in identifying the root causes behind ones negative behaviors, habits and emotional patterns that create imbalance and disease. It also helps one understand the reality of cause and effect in behavior, and assists in better decision making. Amethyst is a marvelous aid in overcoming addictions by counteracting the effects of drugs and alcohol on brain function, while imparting its own peaceful sustaining energy. [Ahsian, 29][Hall, 54]

Because Amethyst initiates wisdom and greater understanding, it is a comforting crystal for those grieving the loss of a loved one. Its presence communicates that there is no death, only transitioning and changing of forms. It encourages the release of sorrow, and rejoicing in a loved ones spirit being freed from the confinement of the physical body. Called the soul stone, Amethyst assists in understanding and connecting to the eternal existence of the soul and initiates ones own deep soul experiences. It is an ideal crystal to hold or meditate upon during the death experience, of another or oneself, allowing the release of the temporal physical body with more ease, assuredness and peace. It is a perfect stone to gift to those with terminal illnesses or to use in preparation for a conscious death experience. [Raphaell, 80][Gienger, 13]

Amethyst Chakra Healing and Balancing Energy

Amethyst carries a high, sweet energy, particularly stimulating to the Third Eye, Crown and Etheric Chakras. [Ahsian, 29]

The Brow Chakra, also called the Third Eye, is the center of our perception and command. It directs our sight and everyday awareness of the world. Our consciousness is located here, and we relate to ourselves through this chakra. When the Brow Chakra is in balance our thoughts and internal communications within ourselves are healthy and vibrant. We are open to new ideas, dreams, and visions, and can control the flow of energy within all the chakras. The dark blue/purple crystals of indigo are used to treat imbalances of the Brow Chakra. It is a quiet color, one of mystery and wisdom and judgment.

The Crown Chakra is located at the top of the head, and is our gateway to the expanded universe beyond our bodies. It controls how we think, and how we respond to the world around us. It is the fountainhead of our beliefs and the source of our spirituality. It connects us to the higher planes of existence and is the source of universal energy and truth. When the Crown is in balance, our energies are in balance. We know our place in the universe and see things as they are. We are unruffled by setbacks, knowing they are an essential part of life. Imbalances of the Crown Chakra are treated with Light Violet crystals. Their violet rays have the universal life force of magic, dreams, inspiration, and destiny.

The higher vibrational White and Lavender/White crystals are associated with the Higher Crown, Soul Star and Stellar Gateway Chakras. They are attuned to higher, more spiritually enlightened things, and embody true humility. They provide a soul connection and the highest self-illumination, as well as a cosmic doorway to other worlds. [Hall II, 366] They represent personal identification with the Infinite, and oneness with God, peace and wisdom. [Raphell, 164]

Amethyst Spiritual Energy

Amethyst carries a high spiritual vibration of humility and devotion to the Divine. It is highly conducive to stilling ones thoughts in prayer and meditation, and surrendering to that which is greater than the self. Amethyst also stimulates the higher mind to receive ones spiritual power as a creation of the Divine being and to open to the insights, wisdom and guidance that is offered. [Ahsian, 29][Raphaell, 79][Hall, 54]

Amethyst is a stone of spiritual protection and purification, cleansing ones energy field of negative influences and attachments, and creating a resonant shield of spiritual Light around the body. It acts as a barrier against lower energies, psychic attack, geopathic stress and unhealthy environments. It is a valuable protection for those doing psychic or intuitive work, and enhances personal environments with a healing and protective circle of Light. [Simmons, 28][Ahsian, 29][Hall, 54]

Amethyst Color Energy

Amethyst embodies the red-violet ray that connects both time and color, of beginnings and endings, as the old year wanes and the new is about to arrive. It tempers the fiery red ray with the intuition of the violet ray, bringing passion and imagination, emotion and logic. It stimulates creativity and is particularly helpful in artistic endeavors. Light Amethyst helps us peer into our souls and see ourselves as others see us. It is the ray of self-esteem and self-knowledge. Dark Amethyst gives us the deep vision needed to see the future. It gives us powerful insight and enhances our perception of the potential effects of our decisions.

Meditation with Amethyst

Amethyst is one of the best crystals for meditation. The amethyst color stimulates the highest vibration of the Third Eye, and placing an Amethyst stone directly over this area ushers in a serene meditative state that stills conscious thought and guides the mind toward deeper understanding. Amethyst energy encourages the mind to be humble and surrender to that which is greater than itself in order to gain some understanding of how the powers of the universe can direct and guide ones life. [Raphaell, 78-79]

To relax the system and increase awareness, hold single Amethyst crystals or small clusters in the left hand (termination towards the arm) during meditation to draw Amethyst energy into the body. Large clusters of Amethyst are ideal for meditation altars or as concentration objects to train the mind to be centered and calm while awareness is focused on the objective world. [Raphaell, 81]

Amethyst may be used to occupy the North-East point on a crystal medicine wheel, used for healing and balancing ones life. The north-east is the place of choices and meditating in this direction facilitates the decision-making process, bringing in spiritual guidance, common sense and realistic goals. It encourages new ideas and relates cause with effect. It also balances out highs and lows for emotional and spiritual centering. [Hall II, 373]

Amethyst Divination

The Divinatory meaning of Amethyst: I do not need to reward myself any excesses of any kind to feel good. [Eason, 212]

Dreaming of Amethyst signifies freedom from harm. [Kunz, 358]

Amethyst and the Angelic Realm

The beautiful purple Light of Amethyst is particularly conducive to communion with angels. [Ahsian, 29] It ranges in color from pale red-violet (amethyst color) to deep violet. If your birthday falls in any of the following periods, an Amethyst of the color listed can be a valuable conduit to your Guardian Angel. The table also provides the name of the Guardian Angel of those born in the time period.

Date	Crystal Color	Name of Guardian Angel
January 16 - Jan 20	Dark Amethyst	Mitzrael
February 15 - February 19	Amethyst	Manake
February 25 - February 29	Amethyst	Habuhian
April 26 - April 30	Amethyst	Cahatel
July 17 - July 22	Dark Amethyst	Hahaiah
Sept 18 - Sept 23	Violet	Menadel
Oct 29 - Nov 2	Lt Amethyst	Ielahiah
Nov 23 - Nov 27	Amethyst	Vahuel

There are other Angels that are partial to Amethyst. The table below gives you the information about them.

Purpose	Crystal Color	Name of Angel
Guardian of the Twenty-Sixth Mansion of the Moon	Amethyst	Tagriel
Master of the 3rd Tarot Card "The Empress"	Dark Amethyst	Hagiel
Guardian of the Thirteenth Mansion of the Moon	Dark Amethyst	Jazeriel
Master of the 6th Tarot Card "The Lovers"	Light Amethyst	Ambriel
Guardian of the Twenty-Seventh Mansion of the Moon	Light Amethyst	Atheniel
Guardian of the Twenty-Fifth Mansion of the Moon	Light Amethyst	Aziel
Angel of Saturday and Ruler of Saturn. Cassiel is the Master of the 21st Tarot Card "The World". Cassiel is also the Angel of Temperence, the Angel of Solitude, and the Angel of Tears	Light Amethyst	Cassiel
Master of the 20th Tarot Card "Judgment"	Light Amethyst	Nuriel
Master of the 21st Tarot Card "The World"	Light Amethyst	Phorlach
Guardian of the Twenty-Eighth Mansion of the Moon	Violet	Amnixiel
Healing Emotions	Violet	Jeremiel
Dealing with Adversity	Violet	Mastema
Michael is the Beauty Angel, Tree of Life. He is the Ruler of Sunday and the Sun. Michael is also the Master of the 19th Tarot Card "The Sun" and the 20th Tarot Card "Judgement". He also helps you Heal Fear and Nervousness as well as being the ,aster of the East wind and the Angel of Sound Sleep, Repentance, and Truth	Violet	Michael
Guardian of the Seventh Mansion of the Moon	Violet	Scheliel
Master of the 8th Tarot Card "Strength"	Violet	Sheratiel
Master of the 13th Tarot Card "Death"	Light Violet	Barachiel
Master of the 12th Tarot Card "The Hanged Man"	Light Violet	Taliahad

Amethyst Goddess Crystals

Amethyst honors Artemis, the Greek Goddess of the Hunt, and Childbirth. She represents the love of the mountains and the forests where she chooses to spend her life. Her comfort is sought by women in labor.

Amethyst also honors Diana, the Roman Goddess of the Moon, and Protector of Animals.

Birthstones

There are several ways to find an appropriate birthstone. The traditional one is listed first. These are from the popular lists that most people are familiar with. The second way is to find your natural birthstone by the color wheel of life. You can click on the Natural Birthstone graphic below to learn more. Finally many people use the traditional stones of the Zodiac.

In this section you will find information on all three approaches.

Amethyst Traditional Birthstone

Amethyst is the traditional birthstone of those born in the month of February.

Amethyst Natural Birthstone

Amethyst is one of the natural birthstones of those born as the old year wanes and the new is about to arrive at the winter solstice (November 21 - December 20). Amethyst crystals bring you creativity, perception, self knowledge, and insight.

Amethyst - Zodiac Stone of Pisces

Amethyst is the zodiac stone for those born under the sign of Pisces as winter makes way for spring, from February 19 to March 20. Pisces symbol is two fish swimming in the opposite directions of each other, and illustrates the problem of dealing with conflicting emotions and goals. Pisceans love making friends and being around them, and often put their friends interests and needs before their own. They are very empathetic and enjoy giving gifts. They are quite resilient in life, and are successful in the businesses of art, music, marketing and drama.

Amethyst Talismans and Amulets

In the ancient world, Amethyst was an amulet of protection worn around the neck of Egyptian dignitaries when they traveled outside their major cities. They believed it safeguarded them from personal treachery and ambush. [Mella, 72-73]

A talisman of ecclesiastical dignity and spiritual protection, Amethyst is the Bishops Stone, still worn on the second finger of the right hand of a Catholic bishop. [Mella, 73]

Amethyst is a talisman of focus and success, used in meditation, to enhance creativity and refine thinking skills. [Megemont, 25]

Amethyst is a Seeker Transformer crystal. Seekers contain a crystal energy structure that aligns the natural energy of the crystal to the natural power of the human mind in finding the way to new horizons and new capabilities. Theyre pointers, directors, and compasses; the fresh start crystals. These are talismans of the scientist, the adventurer, the hunter, wanderer, and explorer. Theyre also crystals of the student and the researcher.

Transformer crystals enhance efforts to change our situations, prospects, health, outlook or relationships. By transforming ourselves we transform our lives. We learn to dance, speak a new language, grow stronger, or become a better spouse or child. Seeker crystals with the earth power of the Transformer are excellent talismans to aid our efforts to grow, develop new capabilities and change our lives.

Amethyst Feng Shui

Amethyst utilizes Fire Energy. Fiire energy is the energy of enthusiasm, warmth, brightness, illumination and activity. It is Yang in nature. It is the energy of heat, action, emotion and passion - of ideas, of concepts, and sex. It is traditionally associated with the south area of a home or room, and with the fame and reputation area of your dwelling. Use its energy to give your life the boost it needs to enhance your standing in the community and within your family

Amethyst in Ancient Lore and Legend

According to Ovid, the Roman poet, Amethyst was a nymph pursued by Bacchus. Desperate to escape him, she called on the goddess Diana who rescued her by transforming her into a shiny stone of pure, cold crystal. Furious, Bacchus threw his glass filled with wine on the stone giving it its purple color. [Megemont, 25] There are various stories and sources for this legend, sometimes with Bacchus, the Roman god of wine, sometimes with Dionysus, the Greek god of intoxification. All credit wine as the reason for the crystals hue.

The use of Amethyst can be traced as far back as 25,000 B.C. to the Neolithic people in Europe. Its spiritual and legendary energies made it popular for beads and amulets in many cultures, and later as a stone of royalty it was utilized in crowns, scepters and jewelry. Ancient Egyptians used Amethyst as a healing stone to ease fears and guilt, and as a strong protector while traveling. Greeks and Romans used it constantly to protect themselves from excesses of overindulgence with food and drink, and its powerful healing effect upon the mind made it valuable for placement under the pillow at bedtime to cure insomnia and induce pleasant dreams. For headaches it was warmed and placed on the forehead or temples to reduce throbbing. [Simmons, 28][Mella, 72-73]

Amethyst was considered a powerful psychic stone of protection against witchcraft and black magic, and was said to lose its color and turn pale when placed near an angry attacker. [Mella, 73]

The Peruvians held a belief that if the names of the sun and the moon were engraved on an Amethyst and hung around ones neck with a baboons hair, or a swallows feather, it would act as a spell against witchcraft. [Fernie, 170] The ancient philosopher Pliny the Elder claimed an Amethyst engraved with figures of the sun and the moon immunized people against poisons. [Megemont, 25]

A bear engraved on an Amethyst had the virtue of putting demons to flight, and defended and preserved the wearer from drunkenness. [Kunz, 134]

In folklore, Amethyst was thought to deter animal fleas. [Eason, 5]

It was once believed a person could summon any love by speaking his or her name in an Amethyst, even if the person was committed to another. [Eason, 212]

Amethyst, listed as the twelfth foundation stone of the New Jerusalem, was considered by some to be inscribed with the name of the apostle Matthew, and was emblematic of his conversion and sobriety. [Fernie, 44] Andreas, bishop of Caesarea, in the tenth century believed the Amethyst, with its fiery aspect, signified Matthias, who in the gift of tongues was so filled with celestial fire and zeal to please God who had chosen him, that he was found worthy to take the place of Judas. [Kunz, 313]

The Rosicrucian society, who combined pagan with Christian types and figures, saw Amethyst and its color as a symbol of the divine male sacrifice, since the stone and color were typical of love, truth, passion, suffering and hope. The love of Christ led him to make the ultimate sacrifice and suffer the agony of the cross, and the crucifixion was followed by the resurrection; thus came the hope of mankind to enjoy eternal happiness in heaven. [Kunz, 269-270]

Amethyst, the stone of February, should also be worn on Thursdays, Thors Day. [Fernie, 171] It is considered a Gem of Spring, and though historically given as a gift on the seventeenth wedding anniversary, it is now listed as the official anniversary gemstone for the sixth anniversary. [Kunz, 326, 337][Eason, 45]

Footnote References

The symbols [ ] enclose the author's name and a page number for a reference cited from the following books:

[Ahsian, pp.] Robert Simmons & Naisha Ahsian, The Book of Stones (Berkley, CA: North Atlantic Books, 2007).

[Eason, pp. ]Cassandra Eason, The New Crystal Bible (London: Carlton Books Ltd., 2010).

[Fernie, pp.] William T. Fernie, The Occult and Curative Powers of Precious Stones (Blauvelt, NY: Rudolph Steiner Publications, 1973).

[Gienger, pp.] Michael Gienger, Healing Crystals (Scotland: Earthdancer Books, 2009).

[Hall, pp.] Judy Hall, The Crystal Bible (Cincinnati, OH: Walking Stick Press, 2003).

[Hall 2, pp.]Judy Hall, The Crystal Bible 2 (Cincinnati, OH: Walking Stick Press, 2009).

[Kunz, pp.] George Frederick Kunz, The Curious Lore of Precious Stones (New York: Dover Publications, 1971).

[Megemont, pp.] Florence Megemont, The Metaphysical Book of Gems and Crystals (Rochester, VT: Healing Arts Press, 2008).


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## BrattyPatty

System:
Hexagonal
Name:
Emerald has priority over beryl as a mineral name. Emerald was known in antiquity and was prized as a gem. In the 1790s, Louis Nicolas Vauquelin, the discoverer of chromium, demonstrated that emerald and beryl were essentially the same chemical compound and that emeralds, sensu strictu, contained chromium. Nonetheless, emerald continued to be listed as the preferred species name for many decades and emerald finally began to be used as a variety name for beryl by the 1830s. New emerald reports referring to ordinary green or even blue beryl persisted in the amateur literature into the twentieth century. In the latter twentieth century, it was discovered that some emeralds contain more vanadium than chromium.
A variety of Beryl

A green gem variety of Beryl, highly sought after as a precious gem stone. The majority of the world's gem quality Emeralds come from the Muzo area of Colombia.

The colour in Emerald is caused by trace amounts of a chromophore such as Chromium or Vanadium.

Visit gemdat.org for gemological information about Emerald.

Classification of Emerald
mindat.org URL:
http://www.mindat.org/min-1375.html
Please feel free to link to this page.
Crystallography of Emerald
Crystal System:
Hexagonal
Other Names for Emerald
Synonyms:

Agee
Name in Other Languages:
Arabic:زمرد
Bulgarian:Изумруд
Catalan:Maragda
Czech:Smaragd
Danish:Smaragd
Dutch:Smaragd
Esperanto:Smeraldo
Finnish:Smaragdi
French:Émeraude
German:Smaragd
Indonesian:Zamrud
Italian:Smeraldo
Japanese:エメラルド
Lithuanian:Smaragdas
Norwegian (Bokmål):Smaragd
Polish:Szmaragd
Portuguese:Esmeralda
Romanian:Smarald
Russian:Изумруд
Serbian (Cyrillic Script):Смарагд
Simplified Chinese:绿宝石
祖母绿
Slovak:Smaragd
Slovenian:Smaragd
Spanish:Esmeralda
Swedish:Smaragd
Thai:มรกต
Vietnamese:Ngọc lục bảo
Varieties:

Trapiche emerald
Other Information
Health Risks:
No information on health risks for this material has been entered into the database. You should always treat mineral specimens with care.
References for Emerald
Reference List:
Sinkankas (1981) "Emeralds and other Beryls".

Extra Lapis English No. 2 "Emeralds of the world"

Extra Lapis No. 22 (in German)

Ringsrud, R. (2009): Emeralds, a passionate guide. Green View Press, 250 pp.
Internet Links for Emerald
Search Engines:
Look for Emerald on Google
Look for Emerald images on Google
Mineral Dealers:
Search for Emerald on Well-Arranged Molecules
Wendel Minerals - Auction & Shop
Mineral Classics - Worldwide Collector Quality Minerals and Gems
Fine and rare minerals from mintreasure.com
Buy fine minerals and gemstones from Pala International
SpiriferMinerals.com - high quality low prices
Wilensky Fine Minerals
Buy from David K Joyce minerals
Search for - Emerald - on e-Rocks Mineral Sales & Auctions
Emerald specimens for sale - minfind.com
Find Emerald on www.crystalclassics.co.uk
High-end worldwide specimens & outstanding customer service
Specimens:
The following Emerald specimens are currently listed for sale on minfind.com.
Localities for Emerald
map shows a selection of localities that have latitude and longitude coordinates recorded. Click on the symbol to view information about a locality. The symbol next to localities in the list can be used to jump to that position on the map.
Show Locality List (275 Items)


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## susanmos2000

Moon rocks--perhaps the most fascinating species of rock ever:

Moon rock is rock that is found on the Earth's moon, or lunar material collected during the course of human exploration of the Moon.

Moon rocks on Earth come from three sources: those collected by the US Apollo manned lunar landings from 1969 to 1972; samples returned by three Soviet Luna unmanned probes in the 1970s; and rocks that were ejected naturally from the lunar surface by cratering events and subsequently fell to Earth as lunar meteorites. During the six Apollo landing missions, 2,415 samples weighing 380.05 kilograms (837.87 lb) were collected. Three Luna spacecraft returned with an additional 326 grams (11.5 oz) of samples. Since 1980, over 120 lunar meteorites representing about 60 different meteorite fall events (none witnessed) have been collected on Earth, with a total mass of over 48 kilograms (106 lb).[citation needed] About one third of these were discovered by US and Japanese teams searching for Antarctic meteorites (e.g., ANSMET), with most of the remainder having been discovered by collectors in the desert regions of northern Africa and Oman.

Rocks from the Moon have been measured by radiometric dating techniques. They range in age from about 3.16 billion years old for the basaltic samples derived from the lunar maria, up to about 4.5 billion years old for rocks derived from the highlands. Based on the age dating technique of "crater counting," the youngest basaltic eruptions are believed to have occurred about 1.2 billion years ago, but scientists do not possess samples of these lavas. In contrast, the oldest ages of rocks from the Earth are between 3.8 and 4.28 billion years old.

Almost all lunar rocks are depleted in volatiles and are completely lacking in hydrated minerals common in Earth rocks. In some regards, lunar rocks are closely related to Earth's rocks in their isotopic composition of the element oxygen. The Apollo moon rocks were collected using a variety of tools, including hammers, rakes, scoops, tongs, and core tubes. Most were photographed prior to collection to record the condition in which they were found. They were placed inside sample bags and then a Special Environmental Sample Container for return to the Earth to protect them from contamination. In contrast to the Earth, large portions of the lunar crust appear to be composed of rocks with high concentrations of the mineral anorthite. The mare basalts have relatively high iron values. Furthermore, some of the mare basalts have very high levels of titanium (in the form of ilmenite).


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## BrattyPatty

@


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## susanmos2000

Apollo 17's Good Will Moon Rock


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## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> We may need more than that, Patty--best add a vial of Holy Water and a bushel of garlic.


We must be thinking along the same lines. I just added a little about the power of amethyst. Will go well with the holy water and garlic.


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## susanmos2000

[ :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty

!
Home / Gemstone Meanings: Beauty, Power and More / Citrine Meaning and Citrine Healing Properties
Citrine Meaning and Citrine Healing Properties

Citrine meaning is focused on helping you to get an optimistic outlook on life. Increasing your success and happiness.

Citrine is a great looking yellow quartz gemstone. It is a gemstone of success that brings joy and laughter by dispelling negative thoughts and energy.

List of Gemstone Meanings: For our full list of gemstone meanings.
Citrine MeaningCitrine meaning

The most important property of citrine is its ability to dispel negative energy. Which means that it never has to be cleansed, unlike other gemstones and crystals that absorb negative energy. Citrines give the owner a feeling of warmth and comfort.

It is often referred to as a Merchant Stone. Not only because it attracts wealth, but also because it boosts self-esteem and increases your focus. Making it more likely youll be successful at completing your tasks. It can be kept in your wallet or if you own a store in a cashbox or safe.

Because it boosts self-esteem, confidence and ego it is often used in crystal therapy to help dealing with depression. But even when you are just feeling a bit down, you can use citrine crystals to bring some joy to your life and lift your mood.

The astrological sign of citrine is Sagittarius (used to replace the far more expensive topaz) or Virgo. Citrine is the birthstone of November.
Citrine Legends and Myths

In Chinese legends and myths, citrines are Stones of Success because they increase intellect and broaden the mind by dispelling misconceptions. Because citrines are such powerful stones they should only be given to generous people, according to these legends.

Even in modern day China, citrines are still very popular gemstones. Especially among scholars, teachers and students, helping them to teach, study and prepare for tests.
Citrine Healing Properties

Citrine healing is mainly focused on dispelling negativity. But other powers are attributed to these yellow gemstones as well. Some of these powers focus on the kidneys and urinary tracts, likely because of the yellow color of citrine. Other areas where they can help healing is the stomach, helping with digestive problems and other ailments.

Disclaimer: Citrines should not be used instead of regular medical treatment, but in addition to these treatments. Always seek professional help when dealing with health related problems. If you see a shrink regularly as one of you here does, don't cancel your appointments!!


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## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We must be thinking along the same lines. I just added a little about the power of amethyst. Will go well with the holy water and garlic.


I see it, Cheeky. Amethysts, garlic, and Holy Water--an unbeatable trio!


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## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> I see it, Cheeky. Amethysts, garlic, and Holy Water--an unbeatable trio!


Guaranteed to work!


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## susanmos2000

Goshers--how could we have left out sedimentary rocks? Here's the list--there are quite a few:

Argillite - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of clay-sized particles

Arkose - a sedimentary rock similar to sandstone

Banded iron formation - a fine grained chemical sedimentary rock composed of iron oxide minerals

Breccia - a sedimentary or tectonic rock composed of fragments of other, broken rocks

Chalk - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of coccolith fossils

Chert - a fine grained chemical sedimentary rock composed of silica

Claystone - a sedimentary rock formed from clay

Coal - a sedimentary rock formed from organic matter

Conglomerate - a sedimentary rock composed of large rounded fragments of other rocks

Coquina - a sedimentary carbonate rock formed by accumulation of abundant shell fossils and fragments

Diamictite - a poorly sorted conglomerate

Diatomite - a sedimentary rock formed from diatom fossils

Dolomite or dolostone - a carbonate rock composed of the mineral dolomite +/- calcite

Evaporite - a chemical sedimentary rock formed by accumulation of minerals after evaporation; varieties include rock salt (halitite) and rock gypsum

Flint - a form of chert

Greywacke - an immature sandstone with quartz, feldspar and rock fragments within a clay matrix

Gritstone - essentially a coarse sandstone formed from small pebbles

Itacolumite - porous, yellow-orange sandstone which is flexible if cut into thin strips

Jaspillite - an iron-rich chemical sedimentary rock similar to chert or banded iron formation

Laterite - a residual sedimentary rock formed from a parent rock under tropical conditions

Lignite - a sedimentary rock composed of organic material; otherwise known as Brown Coal

Limestone - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of carbonate minerals

Marl - a limestone with a considerable proportion of silicate material

Mudstone - a sedimentary rock composed of clay and muds

Oil shale - a sedimentary rock composed dominantly of organic material

Oolite - a chemical sedimentary limestone

Sandstone - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size

Shale - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size

Siltstone - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size

Travertine - a sedimentary rock containing calcite and iron oxides

Turbidite - a particular sequence of sedimentary rocks which form within the deep ocean environment

Wackestone - a matrix-supported carbonate sedimentary rock


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## susanmos2000

susanmos2000 said:


> Goshers--how could we have left out sedimentary rocks? Here's the list--there are quite a few:
> 
> Argillite - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of clay-sized particles
> 
> Arkose - a sedimentary rock similar to sandstone
> 
> Banded iron formation - a fine grained chemical sedimentary rock composed of iron oxide minerals
> 
> Breccia - a sedimentary or tectonic rock composed of fragments of other, broken rocks
> 
> Chalk - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of coccolith fossils
> 
> Chert - a fine grained chemical sedimentary rock composed of silica
> 
> Claystone - a sedimentary rock formed from clay
> 
> Coal - a sedimentary rock formed from organic matter
> 
> Conglomerate - a sedimentary rock composed of large rounded fragments of other rocks
> 
> Coquina - a sedimentary carbonate rock formed by accumulation of abundant shell fossils and fragments
> 
> Diamictite - a poorly sorted conglomerate
> 
> Diatomite - a sedimentary rock formed from diatom fossils
> 
> Dolomite or dolostone - a carbonate rock composed of the mineral dolomite +/- calcite
> 
> Evaporite - a chemical sedimentary rock formed by accumulation of minerals after evaporation; varieties include rock salt (halitite) and rock gypsum
> 
> Flint - a form of chert
> 
> Greywacke - an immature sandstone with quartz, feldspar and rock fragments within a clay matrix
> 
> Gritstone - essentially a coarse sandstone formed from small pebbles
> 
> Itacolumite - porous, yellow-orange sandstone which is flexible if cut into thin strips
> 
> Jaspillite - an iron-rich chemical sedimentary rock similar to chert or banded iron formation
> 
> Laterite - a residual sedimentary rock formed from a parent rock under tropical conditions
> 
> Lignite - a sedimentary rock composed of organic material; otherwise known as Brown Coal
> 
> Limestone - a sedimentary rock composed primarily of carbonate minerals
> 
> Marl - a limestone with a considerable proportion of silicate material
> 
> Mudstone - a sedimentary rock composed of clay and muds
> 
> Oil shale - a sedimentary rock composed dominantly of organic material
> 
> Oolite - a chemical sedimentary limestone
> 
> Sandstone - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size
> 
> Shale - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size
> 
> Siltstone - a clastic sedimentary rock defined by its grain size
> 
> Travertine - a sedimentary rock containing calcite and iron oxides
> 
> Turbidite - a particular sequence of sedimentary rocks which form within the deep ocean environment
> 
> Wackestone - a matrix-supported carbonate sedimentary rock


Wackestone--Hmm...I'm not familiar with that one, but I have a hunch it might be a favorite among members of the GOP.


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## BrattyPatty

Introduction to Meaning and Uses of Green Aventurine

Green Aventurine is known as the Stone of Opportunity, thought to be the luckiest of all crystals, especially in manifesting prosperity and wealth, or for increasing favor in competitions or games of chance. Its winning energy makes it a great ally for boosting ones chances in any situation - a first date, tax audit, even landing a promotion. One needs only to be near it to derive its benefits. [Simmons, 55][Eason, 285][Mella, 74]

This beautiful stone, however, is not merely an attractor of luck, but one that aligns conditions so opportunity is inevitable. Green Aventurine releases old patterns, habits and disappointments so new growth can take place. It brings optimism and a zest for life, allowing one to move forward with confidence and to embrace change. It enhances ones creativity and motivation, and encourages perseverance in maneuvering lifes obstacles. It also reinforces ones decisiveness and amplifies leadership qualities, injecting a sense of humor and openness to the ideas of others. [Ahsian, 56][Simmons, 55][Melody, 136][Hall, 73-74]

Aventurine is a variety of Quartz characterized by bright inclusions of Mica or other minerals that give a shimmering or glistening effect to the stone, referred to as aventurescence, especially notable when tumbled or polished. Its name is derived from the Italian a ventura or allavventura, meaning by chance, and refers to the Italian glass from the 1700s, produced when a worker accidentally dropped metal filings into a vat of melting glass. Once cooled, the result was pleasing with its randomly spaced iridescent sparkles, and it was used to make jewelry and other items. The name Aventurine was later given to the natural stone which looked like the industrial product. [www.wikipedia.org][Megemont, 36][Simmons, 55]

Aventurine is most commonly green, though it also forms in blue, red to reddish-brown, dusty purple, orange or peach, yellow, and silver gray. It is mostly translucent and often banded, but an overabundance of an included mineral may render it opaque. The color of Green Aventurine comes from Fushite particles within the Quartz, while shades of red, brown and orange are attributed to Hematite or Goethite inclusions. Peach and yellow Aventurine include Pyrite with their Mica crystals, Blue Aventurine contains inclusions of Dumortierite, while the purple variety is colored by Lepidolite. [Gienger, 17][www.wikipedia.org][www.healing-crystals-for-u.com][www.luckygemstones.com]

Aventurine is also referred to as Adventurine, Avanturine, Aventurine Quartz, and Indian Jade. It is used not only in various forms for metaphysical purposes, but in jewelry, vases, bowls and figurines, as well as a number of applications such as landscaping stone, building stone, aquaria, and monuments. [www.mindat.org][www.wikipedia.org][www.bernardine.com]
metaphysical uses Green Aventurine Uses and Purposes

Green Aventurine carries a strong connection to Earth and the devic kingdom, providing a better understanding and appreciation of nature and its soothing vibrations upon the mind and body. It is an excellent stone for gridding houses or gardens against geopathic stress. [Hall, 73][Megemont, 36][Ahsian, 56]

Wearing Aventurine also absorbs electromagnetic smog and guards against environmental pollution. Taped to a cell phone, it protects against its emanations. [Hall, 73]

Green Aventurine energetically stimulates the physical growth of premature infants, young children and teenagers. It increases overall vitality and enhances the intellectual development of children struggling with schoolwork and destructive hyperactivity. It assists adults with written work, typing and computer skills, and is beneficial to all in overcoming clumsiness. [Megemont, 36][Eason, 285][Ahsian, 56]

Aventurine may be made into an elixir to drink or used in ablutions by soaking a stone fragment in demineralized water overnight (we recommend the indirect method). It is highly beneficial for fighting eczema, rosacea, juvenile acne, and other skin problems. [Megemont, 36]

Aventurine is ideal for soothing quick-tempers or brutal temperaments, and can greatly diminish the effects of domestic strife between spouses. [Megemont, 36]

For those looking for love in their mature years, Green Aventurine may be used as a love crystal or added to a Heart Chakra layout as it encourages love later in life. [Hall, 361]

divider
healing crystals

Green Aventurine Healing Therapies - Overview

(Please note: Information on this web site is no substitute for consulting a health care professional. All information contained on this web site, including information relating to medical and health conditions, products and treatments, is for informational purposes only. Please see your doctor or health care professional before starting any alternative treatments, diets, supplements or exercise programs.)

healing power of crystalsGreen Aventurine Physical Healing Energy

Green Aventurine is particularly supportive of the heart, and is excellent for those with cardiac conditions, circulatory problems, or recovering from surgery or illness. It stimulates life-giving energy throughout the body and engenders activity and movement while assisting in physical regeneration. [Ahsian, 56] It may give an added boost in efforts to lower cholesterol and in preventing arteriosclerosis and heart attack. [Gienger, 17][Hall, 74]

Green Aventurine is also thought to benefit fertility and genito-urinary problems; eyesight, especially far-sightedness and astigmatism; dyslexia, dypraxia, and cerebral palsy. It assists in healing the adrenals, lungs, thymus gland and the nervous system. [Eason, 285][Melody, 136][Hall, 74]

Green Aventurine increases the power of homeopathic remedies. [Eason, 285] It has an anti-inflammatory effect, easing skin eruptions, such as acne, eczema, and rosacea, and soothes allergies and migraine headaches. [Hall, 74][Megemont, 36]
physical healing crystal uses Green Aventurine Emotional Healing Energy

Green Aventurines soothing energy balances the emotional body, guiding one toward inner harmony. It calms nervousness, anger and irritation, and helps dissolve the everyday stress of a hectic lifestyle. It quiets roving thoughts and enhances sleep while providing a gentle grounding effect on ones vibrational field. It releases the notion that every event must be analyzed. [Megemont, 36][Hall, 74][Gienger, 17]

Green Aventurine also soothes emotional wounds, allowing one to recognize the issues behind illness or imbalance, depression or defeat, and to facilitate the release of unhealthy relationships, patterns and heartache. It encourages one to view hardships in life as impermanent, as an opportunity for growth in a new direction, and for taking all things in stride. It inspires a feeling of lightness, even humor, which can then stimulate a renewed sense of optimism, joy and hope. It is a reaffirming stone, especially during times of change or upheaval and can be the emotional anchor one needs to remain stable and firmly grounded. [Ahsian, 56][Simmons, 55]
chakra balancing with crystalsGreen Aventurine Chakra Healing and Balancing Energy

Green Aventurine is a comforter and heart healer, used to clear and activate the Heart Chakra for general well-being and emotional calm. It is also a powerful protector of the Heart Chakra, providing a shield to block entry from those who would tap-in and use the energy of another. [Melody, 136][Hall, 74]

The Heart Chakra is located near the center of the breastbone and regulates our interaction with the external world, controlling what we embrace and what we resist. It gives us the balancing ability to be ourselves within the environment. When the Heart Chakra is out of balance we may feel either controlling or controlled in a relationship, and become critical of the little foibles of others. We may find ourselves having inappropriately strong emotional responses to everyday external stimuli. Green crystal energy is used to resolve blockages and to re-balance the Heart Chakra, helping us understand our own needs and emotions clearly. We can deal with the ebbs and flows of emotional relationships, understand their cyclic nature, and accept the changes.

spiritual crystalsGreen Aventurine Spiritual Energy

Green Aventurine is a remarkable harmonizer, uniting the intellectual, emotional, physical and auric bodies in bringing one back into a natural rhythm. It dissolves negativity and balances the male/female energies, enabling one to live within ones own heart. It encourages one to release attachment to outcomes and to be more present in ones experiences, embracing change, growth and renewal. [Melody, 136][Hall, 74][Ahsian, 56]
\
crystal color powerGreen Aventurine Color Energy

Green Aventurine is a growth crystal - a powerful conduit of the earths Life Force of birth, development, and creation, and of the power of natures constant renewal. It is a potent aid in nurturing, whether of fledgling family relationships or a new business venture. Green Aventurine is perfect for keeping a venture on course, a project on schedule, and life on track. Light green crystals promote spiritual growth and renewed commitment to a higher purpose. Those of a darker hue are talismans of physical growth and strength, and safety in travel.

If this is the luckiest of all crystals, Ted Cruz should buy a mine!


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## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Introduction to Meaning and Uses of Green Aventurine
> 
> Green Aventurine is known as the Stone of Opportunity, thought to be the luckiest of all crystals, especially in manifesting prosperity and wealth, or for increasing favor in competitions or games of chance. Its winning energy makes it a great ally for boosting ones chances in any situation - a first date, tax audit, even landing a promotion. One needs only to be near it to derive its benefits. [Simmons, 55][Eason, 285][Mella, 74]
> 
> This beautiful stone, however, is not merely an attractor of luck, but one that aligns conditions so opportunity is inevitable. Green Aventurine releases old patterns, habits and disappointments so new growth can take place. It brings optimism and a zest for life, allowing one to move forward with confidence and to embrace change. It enhances ones creativity and motivation, and encourages perseverance in maneuvering lifes obstacles. It also reinforces ones decisiveness and amplifies leadership qualities, injecting a sense of humor and openness to the ideas of others. [Ahsian, 56][Simmons, 55][Melody, 136][Hall, 73-74]
> 
> Aventurine is a variety of Quartz characterized by bright inclusions of Mica or other minerals that give a shimmering or glistening effect to the stone, referred to as aventurescence, especially notable when tumbled or polished. Its name is derived from the Italian a ventura or allavventura, meaning by chance, and refers to the Italian glass from the 1700s, produced when a worker accidentally dropped metal filings into a vat of melting glass. Once cooled, the result was pleasing with its randomly spaced iridescent sparkles, and it was used to make jewelry and other items. The name Aventurine was later given to the natural stone which looked like the industrial product. [www.wikipedia.org][Megemont, 36][Simmons, 55]
> 
> Aventurine is most commonly green, though it also forms in blue, red to reddish-brown, dusty purple, orange or peach, yellow, and silver gray. It is mostly translucent and often banded, but an overabundance of an included mineral may render it opaque. The color of Green Aventurine comes from Fushite particles within the Quartz, while shades of red, brown and orange are attributed to Hematite or Goethite inclusions. Peach and yellow Aventurine include Pyrite with their Mica crystals, Blue Aventurine contains inclusions of Dumortierite, while the purple variety is colored by Lepidolite. [Gienger, 17][www.wikipedia.org][www.healing-crystals-for-u.com][www.luckygemstones.com]
> 
> Aventurine is also referred to as Adventurine, Avanturine, Aventurine Quartz, and Indian Jade. It is used not only in various forms for metaphysical purposes, but in jewelry, vases, bowls and figurines, as well as a number of applications such as landscaping stone, building stone, aquaria, and monuments. [www.mindat.org][www.wikipedia.org][www.bernardine.com]
> metaphysical uses Green Aventurine Uses and Purposes
> 
> Green Aventurine carries a strong connection to Earth and the devic kingdom, providing a better understanding and appreciation of nature and its soothing vibrations upon the mind and body. It is an excellent stone for gridding houses or gardens against geopathic stress. [Hall, 73][Megemont, 36][Ahsian, 56]
> 
> Wearing Aventurine also absorbs electromagnetic smog and guards against environmental pollution. Taped to a cell phone, it protects against its emanations. [Hall, 73]
> 
> Green Aventurine energetically stimulates the physical growth of premature infants, young children and teenagers. It increases overall vitality and enhances the intellectual development of children struggling with schoolwork and destructive hyperactivity. It assists adults with written work, typing and computer skills, and is beneficial to all in overcoming clumsiness. [Megemont, 36][Eason, 285][Ahsian, 56]
> 
> Aventurine may be made into an elixir to drink or used in ablutions by soaking a stone fragment in demineralized water overnight (we recommend the indirect method). It is highly beneficial for fighting eczema, rosacea, juvenile acne, and other skin problems. [Megemont, 36]
> 
> Aventurine is ideal for soothing quick-tempers or brutal temperaments, and can greatly diminish the effects of domestic strife between spouses. [Megemont, 36]
> 
> For those looking for love in their mature years, Green Aventurine may be used as a love crystal or added to a Heart Chakra layout as it encourages love later in life. [Hall, 361]
> 
> divider
> healing crystals
> 
> Green Aventurine Healing Therapies - Overview
> 
> (Please note: Information on this web site is no substitute for consulting a health care professional. All information contained on this web site, including information relating to medical and health conditions, products and treatments, is for informational purposes only. Please see your doctor or health care professional before starting any alternative treatments, diets, supplements or exercise programs.)
> 
> healing power of crystalsGreen Aventurine Physical Healing Energy
> 
> Green Aventurine is particularly supportive of the heart, and is excellent for those with cardiac conditions, circulatory problems, or recovering from surgery or illness. It stimulates life-giving energy throughout the body and engenders activity and movement while assisting in physical regeneration. [Ahsian, 56] It may give an added boost in efforts to lower cholesterol and in preventing arteriosclerosis and heart attack. [Gienger, 17][Hall, 74]
> 
> Green Aventurine is also thought to benefit fertility and genito-urinary problems; eyesight, especially far-sightedness and astigmatism; dyslexia, dypraxia, and cerebral palsy. It assists in healing the adrenals, lungs, thymus gland and the nervous system. [Eason, 285][Melody, 136][Hall, 74]
> 
> Green Aventurine increases the power of homeopathic remedies. [Eason, 285] It has an anti-inflammatory effect, easing skin eruptions, such as acne, eczema, and rosacea, and soothes allergies and migraine headaches. [Hall, 74][Megemont, 36]
> physical healing crystal uses Green Aventurine Emotional Healing Energy
> 
> Green Aventurines soothing energy balances the emotional body, guiding one toward inner harmony. It calms nervousness, anger and irritation, and helps dissolve the everyday stress of a hectic lifestyle. It quiets roving thoughts and enhances sleep while providing a gentle grounding effect on ones vibrational field. It releases the notion that every event must be analyzed. [Megemont, 36][Hall, 74][Gienger, 17]
> 
> Green Aventurine also soothes emotional wounds, allowing one to recognize the issues behind illness or imbalance, depression or defeat, and to facilitate the release of unhealthy relationships, patterns and heartache. It encourages one to view hardships in life as impermanent, as an opportunity for growth in a new direction, and for taking all things in stride. It inspires a feeling of lightness, even humor, which can then stimulate a renewed sense of optimism, joy and hope. It is a reaffirming stone, especially during times of change or upheaval and can be the emotional anchor one needs to remain stable and firmly grounded. [Ahsian, 56][Simmons, 55]
> chakra balancing with crystalsGreen Aventurine Chakra Healing and Balancing Energy
> 
> Green Aventurine is a comforter and heart healer, used to clear and activate the Heart Chakra for general well-being and emotional calm. It is also a powerful protector of the Heart Chakra, providing a shield to block entry from those who would tap-in and use the energy of another. [Melody, 136][Hall, 74]
> 
> The Heart Chakra is located near the center of the breastbone and regulates our interaction with the external world, controlling what we embrace and what we resist. It gives us the balancing ability to be ourselves within the environment. When the Heart Chakra is out of balance we may feel either controlling or controlled in a relationship, and become critical of the little foibles of others. We may find ourselves having inappropriately strong emotional responses to everyday external stimuli. Green crystal energy is used to resolve blockages and to re-balance the Heart Chakra, helping us understand our own needs and emotions clearly. We can deal with the ebbs and flows of emotional relationships, understand their cyclic nature, and accept the changes.
> 
> spiritual crystalsGreen Aventurine Spiritual Energy
> 
> Green Aventurine is a remarkable harmonizer, uniting the intellectual, emotional, physical and auric bodies in bringing one back into a natural rhythm. It dissolves negativity and balances the male/female energies, enabling one to live within ones own heart. It encourages one to release attachment to outcomes and to be more present in ones experiences, embracing change, growth and renewal. [Melody, 136][Hall, 74][Ahsian, 56]
> \
> crystal color powerGreen Aventurine Color Energy
> 
> Green Aventurine is a growth crystal - a powerful conduit of the earths Life Force of birth, development, and creation, and of the power of natures constant renewal. It is a potent aid in nurturing, whether of fledgling family relationships or a new business venture. Green Aventurine is perfect for keeping a venture on course, a project on schedule, and life on track. Light green crystals promote spiritual growth and renewed commitment to a higher purpose. Those of a darker hue are talismans of physical growth and strength, and safety in travel.
> 
> If this is the luckiest of all crystals, Ted Cruz should buy a mine!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000

This is really something...


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## susanmos2000

Double post


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## BrattyPatty

Rock of Gibraltar

The Rock of Gibraltar (sometimes called by its original Latin name, Calpe,[2]) is a monolithic limestone promontory located in the British overseas territory of Gibraltar, off the southwestern tip of Europe on the Iberian Peninsula.[3] It is 426 m (1,398 ft) high. The Rock is Crown property of the United Kingdom, and borders Spain. Most of the Rock's upper area is covered by a nature reserve, which is home to around 300 Barbary macaques. These macaques, as well as a labyrinthine network of tunnels, attract a large number of tourists each year.

The Rock of Gibraltar was one of the Pillars of Hercules and was known to the Romans as Mons Calpe, the other pillar being Mons Abyla or Jebel Musa on the African side of the Strait. In ancient times the two points marked the limit to the known world, a myth originally fostered by the Greeks and the Phoenicians.[3][4]

Gibraltar is not the southernmost point of Europe, which is the Punta de Tarifa, at 25 kilometres Southwest of Gibraltar, as the crow flies. Gibraltar is sourrounded by the Mediterranean Sea and has no contact with the Atlantic Ocean.


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## Cheeky Blighter

and you can play with them.


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## Cheeky Blighter

David carved out of marble by Michelangelo


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## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> David carved out of marble by Michelangelo


*gasp* Where are the fig leaves, Cheeky?


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## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> *gasp* Where are the fig leaves, Cheeky?


If you've got it flaunt it. :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000

:wink:


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## damemary

I think the fig leaves are just where they need to be...on the fig tree.



susanmos2000 said:


> *gasp* Where are the fig leaves, Cheeky?


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> If you've got it flaunt it. :thumbup:


Cheeky Blighter
thumbs up to that.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you know that amethyst is a member of the quartz group?
> Myth has it that this is the stone of protection.
> May it protect us from the republican party!


Bratty Patty
breathtaking color the Amethyst has and may its powers shine on us.


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## Huckleberry

Fellow Liberals, once again I am soooooo impressed with the knowledge you have which is build on solid rock.


----------



## knitismything

Cheeky Blighter, very interesting conversation about geology, glad I started to follow this thread, I have over a dozen of necklaces and didn't know what kind of stones they were, now I know where to find the answers.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## kittykatzmom

I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


----------



## MarilynKnits

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


You are so far off base you are not even in the ballpark. Mrs. Obama is a gracious First Lady. Sorry for anybody so blinded by their prejudices not to appreciate her and the lovely young women she and the President are raising.


----------



## Designer1234

knitismything said:


> Cheeky Blighter, very interesting conversation about geology, glad I started to follow this thread, I have over a dozen of necklaces and didn't know what kind of stones they were, now I know where to find the answers.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I agree, ladies. You are full of interesting knowledge. I copied out a lot of what you wrote as my son has joined a rockhound club.
I was looking for a book to give him for his birthday, your information is just as good. good job!!!!


----------



## Huckleberry

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


kittykatzmom
glad you are exposing your bigotry and racism. As to mess, yes, no greater mess has ever been handed down than the one from G.W. Bush to President Obama and he has handled it extremely well without any help from the Republicans.


----------



## Huckleberry

damemary said:


> I think the fig leaves are just where they need to be...on the fig tree.


damemary
very cute.


----------



## susanmos2000

MarilynKnits said:


> You are so far off base you are not even in the ballpark. Mrs. Obama is a gracious First Lady. Sorry for anybody so blinded by their prejudices not to appreciate her and the lovely young women she and the President are raising.


No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?[/quote
> 
> She is one of the most approachable and compassionate first ladies we have ever had. She is also extremely intelligent and a very accomplished woman in her own right. Her daughters are maturing into beautiful long ladies. She is a wonderful person we can all be very proud to call our first lady. :thumbup:


----------



## NJG

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> what is not to love about this.


And Scott Walker thinks the fact that he was an eagle scout will make him a good president. He also thinks surviving the recall and the protesters will help him to deal with Isis. How much dumber can one person be. Most people that want to run for President have a college degree, but not Walker.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

NJG said:


> And Scott Walker thinks the fact that he was an eagle scout will make him a good president. He also thinks surviving the recall and the protesters will help him to deal with Isis. How much dumber can one person be. Most people that want to run for President have a college, but not Walker.


Now he is trying to destroy one of the finest university systems in the country. Too many liberal, critical thinkers coming out of UW for his liking.


----------



## NJG

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


And you call yourself a Mom. A real Mom does not teach this kind of disrespect to children.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?[/quote
> 
> She is one of the most approachable and compassionate first ladies we have ever had. She is also extremely intelligent and a very accomplished woman in her own right. Her daughters are maturing into beautiful long ladies. She is a wonderful person we can all be very proud to call our first lady. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Cheeky Blighter
> the fact that our First Family is so beautiful in every respect makes the racists so angry.
Click to expand...


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## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> And Scott Walker thinks the fact that he was an eagle scout will make him a good president. He also thinks surviving the recall and the protesters will help him to deal with Isis. How much dumber can one person be. Most people that want to run for President have a college degree, but not Walker.


NJG
what a Simpleton he is.


----------



## damemary

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## damemary

MarilynKnits said:


> You are so far off base you are not even in the ballpark. Mrs. Obama is a gracious First Lady. Sorry for anybody so blinded by their prejudices not to appreciate her and the lovely young women she and the President are raising.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?


I find Michelle Obama a model of composure under these circumstances. I know I couldn't do it. My Momma Tiger would be on the hunt.


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?[/quote
> 
> She is one of the most approachable and compassionate first ladies we have ever had. She is also extremely intelligent and a very accomplished woman in her own right. Her daughters are maturing into beautiful long ladies. She is a wonderful person we can all be very proud to call our first lady. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I think Michelle Obama is one of the best First Ladies this country has ever had. History will also treat her well.
Click to expand...


----------



## damemary

I doubt he will last long on the campaign trail. He has too many weak spots. Someone will decide to take his place.



NJG said:


> And Scott Walker thinks the fact that he was an eagle scout will make him a good president. He also thinks surviving the recall and the protesters will help him to deal with Isis. How much dumber can one person be. Most people that want to run for President have a college degree, but not Walker.


----------



## NJG

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


Well we don't have to wait, the truth is out about the republicans. Just look at the budget they just passed and it tells you everything you need to know. People on SS and medicare had better be prepared for the worst if they ever gain complete control. Tell me kittykatzmom, do you have respect for their budget?


----------



## damemary

Good question. Think we'll get an answer?



NJG said:


> Well we don't have to wait, the truth is out about the republicans. Just look at the budget they just passed and it tells you everything you need to know. People on SS and medicare had better be prepared for the worst if they ever gain complete control. Tell me kittykatzmom, do you have respect for their budget?


----------



## NJG

damemary said:


> Good question. Think we'll get an answer?


Very doubtful. If we do get an answer, it will be to praise their budget which works for billionaires, but not for the working class.


----------



## Designer1234

susanmos2000 said:


> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?


I agree -- it is shameful. They are all grace under pressure and that hasn't anything to do with politics- they are personal, dreadful attacks and people who make them should be ashamed.


----------



## Designer1234

Cheeky Blighter said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?[/quote
> 
> She is one of the most approachable and compassionate first ladies we have ever had. She is also extremely intelligent and a very accomplished woman in her own right. Her daughters are maturing into beautiful long ladies. She is a wonderful person we can all be very proud to call our first lady. :thumbup:
Click to expand...


----------



## damemary

Designer1234 said:


>


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


What truth are you talking about? And she is a gracious lady.


----------



## GWPlver

Cheeky Blighter said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No kidding, Marilyn. The word "gracious" doesn't even go far enough when we acknowledge the barrage of insults, biting demeaning criticisms, and racial slurs that have been directed at the First Family. How many of us could hang on to our composure and our courage as Mrs. Obama has done if we heard our spouses and children being insulted and denigrated on a daily basis?[/quote
> 
> She is one of the most approachable and compassionate first ladies we have ever had. She is also extremely intelligent and a very accomplished woman in her own right. Her daughters are maturing into beautiful long ladies. She is a wonderful person we can all be very proud to call our first lady. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> I love the fact that she created gardens for food at the White House and cares about the diet of children when many parents don't. Community gardens, local foods, etc., are becoming more popular. Thank you, Mrs. Obama for supporting the movement.
Click to expand...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

GWPlver said:


> I love the fact that she created gardens for food at the White House and cares about the diet of children when many parents don't. Community gardens, local foods, etc., are becoming more popular. Thank you, Mrs. Obama for supporting the movement.


Thank you GW for pointing that out. Mrs. Obama has made many contributions to the country and we are better off for it.


----------



## Designer1234

kittykatzmom said:


> I hope one of these days the truth comes out about Obama. What a mess this country will be in - but is already in a mess. I just hope we get a president who RESPECTS America and will work for America. Same for the First Lady - we need a Lady back in the WH.


I am sure you missed out on a word - you mean a White lady. She is one of the best First ladies I remember in the White House that even people like you can't say much against unless it is full of lies and hate. She is gracious, kind, an excellent loving wife, Mother and First lady. There have been quite a few, but none any finer than Mrs.Obama.


----------



## SQM

I have not posted in awhile. Will someone direct me to a good thread or two? It is boring being pleasant with oneself.


----------



## Dangrktty

Designer1234 said:


> I am sure you missed out on a word - you mean a White lady. She is one of the best First ladies I remember in the White House that even people like you can't say much against unless it is full of lies and hate. She is gracious, kind, an excellent loving wife, Mother and First lady. There have been quite a few, but none any finer than Mrs.Obama.


Many First Ladies were involved in a project, something they felt strongly about. Women do that... see something that needs attention, and take it on as a project.

Eleanor Roosevelt did everything! When she and FDR were first married, she was a social worker in the tenements, and FDR's presidency was defined by many, many social programs, lots of them at his wife's suggestion. The woman was a force of nature.

Jackie Kennedy worked on the White House... historic Preservation. Style, class, and elegance.

Ladybird accomplished more in her home state of Texas after the White House years. Texas parks, wildlife, etc.

Pat Nixon was the first First Lady to enter a combat zone, traveled extensively, raised awareness for volunteerism and preservation.

Betty Ford raised awareness about addiction, and bravely dealt with her own private hell out loud and in person.

Rosalynn Carter supported the ERA, and worked to change the nature of govt. assistance to the mentally ill. Her magnum opus is a project she and her husband became involved in after the presidency, are still involved in today, Habitat for Humanity.

Nancy Reagan wanted us all to just say no. For some of us, that was not a problem.

Barbara Bush was involved in family literacy, and this was also a project for Laura Bush, a former librarian.

Hillary Clinton. I really hope she took off one of her sensible pumps and whacked Bill in the head with it a couple of times. What a mess. Her projects are too numerous to list, and she has accomplished a lot after the all of that.

Michelle Obama. It seems that whatever she has done or said, or worn, or tried to do, some people just really don't like her. Her wardrobe was not fabulous. Her big project is childhood obesity, nutrition, and the Let's Move fitness slogan, to get children outside in the fresh air to play. 
Childhood obesity is a problem, and the health problems that naturally follow are horrendous. This rubs some people the wrong way.

Oh, the wailing, and the gnashing of teeth. The very idea, that woman would even suggest someone's children should put down the chips and x box, go outside and play for an hour
That, and the fact that she is young, educated attorney, ...black... and lives in the White House. And her arms in a sleeveless dress. Yeah. Caused the polar icecaps to melt, those arms in a sleeveless dress.

The biggest sin Michelle Obama has comitted as First Lady is pointing out the correlation between junk food and a sedentary lifestyle in children. This is not news to anyone who is overweight.


----------



## damemary

Success of President Obama has some interesting facts to consider. Mar. 26-29 and 18 pages of comments so far. Take a look.



SQM said:


> I have not posted in awhile. Will someone direct me to a good thread or two? It is boring being pleasant with oneself.


----------



## SQM

damemary said:


> Success of President Obama has some interesting facts to consider. Mar. 26-29 and 18 pages of comments so far. Take a look.


Thanks Ol' Bean. 18 pages. I will ask for a summary.


----------



## damemary

The original topic was to discuss the successes of the Obama Administration. I haven't counted, but I'd say it's 80% positive. Many interesting accomplishments listed. Feel free to answer the question for yourself.



SQM said:


> Thanks Ol' Bean. 18 pages. I will ask for a summary.


----------



## SQM

Please explain the rocks. Is it because Cruz has rocks in his head or he really rocks?

See Nebs I posted at your kind request.


----------



## MarilynKnits

Designer1234 said:


> I am sure you missed out on a word - you mean a White lady. She is one of the best First ladies I remember in the White House that even people like you can't say much against unless it is full of lies and hate. She is gracious, kind, an excellent loving wife, Mother and First lady. There have been quite a few, but none any finer than Mrs.Obama.


And don't forget that she is a respectful daughter. She is setting an example of how to be a good daughter by her actions, not just by words.


----------



## NJG

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I don't believe there were subsidies that large. One would qualify for medicaid first and pay nothing. Since subsidies were based on 2013 income for 2014 there could obviously be a difference but the average person's income would generally not vary that much from year to year. Yes, let me know how it goes for your daughter next year. Obviously, if people are able they would pay the entire premium each month and then apply for a credit when they file their tax return. That way no surprises but many people can't afford to do it that way. Nothing is perfect the first time out of the chute but ACA is getting there. I'm sure SS and Medicare had their growing pains too.


My daughter met with her tax man last Friday and does not have to pay back any of her subsidy. She has her own business, [commercial art] but after Bush destroyed the economy, she lost a lot of clients and last year had to, as she said find a real job. She had switched to the ACA as soon as it was available and received a subsidy. She had a job at Target and after a few months she got an offer to get back into commercial art and loves it. She has stayed with the ACA because it is cheaper than the insurance through her employer. She still got a small subsidy and like before she did not take all of it.
For someone to say that a person had to pay back 6000 because of the subsidy must have been smokin something. That persons income must have increased tremendously or she is thinking we will fall for her line of BS.


----------



## jmf6406

I believe I saw a clip on TV of one of the Republican Congressmen before the ACA went into effect commenting that the Republicans MUST repeal the ACA since once people get the insurance they will NOT let the act be repealed. Sad, really.


----------



## NJG

jmf6406 said:


> I believe I saw a clip on TV of one of the Republican Congressmen before the ACA went into effect commenting that the Republicans MUST repeal the ACA since once people get the insurance they will NOT let the act be repealed. Sad, really.


Right, they know it will go the same way as social security and medicare, although the republicans have turning medicare into a voucher system as part of their new budget. I do not remember any of the right wingers that make comments on here to ever say anything about SS and medicare, even if they are using both. They must realize that if the republicans gain complete control it will be the beginning of the end for both. IS that what they want. I wish they would answer.


----------



## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> Right, they know it will go the same way as social security and medicare, although the republicans have turning medicare into a voucher system as part of their new budget. I do not remember any of the right wingers that make comments on here to ever say anything about SS and medicare, even if they are using both. They must realize that if the republicans gain complete control it will be the beginning of the end for both. IS that what they want. I wish they would answer.


NJG
have heard some Republicans bitching about ACA being handled by the Government when at the same time they say: "don't touch my SS or Medicare:" Two outstanding and extremely well managed Government programs. It shows how dumb some folks truly are. Nothing like being stupid.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

NJG said:


> My daughter met with her tax man last Friday and does not have to pay back any of her subsidy. She has her own business, [commercial art] but after Bush destroyed the economy, she lost a lot of clients and last year had to, as she said find a real job. She had switched to the ACA as soon as it was available and received a subsidy. She had a job at Target and after a few months she got an offer to get back into commercial art and loves it. She has stayed with the ACA because it is cheaper than the insurance through her employer. She still got a small subsidy and like before she did not take all of it.
> For someone to say that a person had to pay back 6000 because of the subsidy must have been smokin something. That persons income must have increased tremendously or she is thinking we will fall for her line of BS.


Thanks for the update on your daughter. Sounds like she is doing very well for herself. As for the $6000 pay back it could never happen. Clearly a line of BS.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> have heard some Republicans bitching about ACA being handled by the Government when at the same time they say: "don't touch my SS or Medicare:" Two outstanding and extremely well managed Government programs. It shows how dumb some folks truly are. Nothing like being stupid.


Stupid is right, Huck. They will scream bloody murder if anyone tries to touch those two programs. Things are only "bad" when they believe someone is getting something they aren't or they feel they aren't getting their fair share of the pie. In the mean time the big corporation aka Citizens United are robbing us all blind. They are easily deceived.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

joeysomma said:


> Two comments. The one who had to pay back the $6,000 went on to the ACA on only her income. Her husband had insurance. When they did the taxes, it used both incomes. Therefore, all of the subsidy had to be paid back.
> 
> If a person has insurance available through an employer, they should not be eligible for a subsidy.


You are making this up and if you want anyone to take you seriously provide reliable sources of your information. Enough of your story telling, joey.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> Two comments. The one who had to pay back the $6,000 went on to the ACA on only her income. Her husband had insurance. When they did the taxes, it used both incomes. Therefore, all of the subsidy had to be paid back.
> 
> If a person has insurance available through an employer, they should not be eligible for a subsidy.


Well there was a reason for the return of the subsidy then, wasn't there, cause you didn't mention that. Why? I would expect to make the ACA look bad.
My daughter used the ACA instead because her employer insurance was more expensive than the ACA. It depends on type and cost of insurance offered by employer and household size and income.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> According to the IRS, your daughter is ineligible for the ACA tax credit, no matter the cost for the employer health plan. I believe she is also ineligible for the ACA.
> 
> Eligibility
> 
> _In general, you may be eligible for the credit if you meet all of the following:
> buy health insurance through the Marketplace;
> *are ineligible for coverage through an employer or government plan;*
> are within certain income limits;
> do not file a Married Filing Separately tax return (unless you meet criteria which allows certain victims of domestic abuse and spousal abandonment to claim the premium tax credit using the Married Filing Separately filing status); and
> cannot be claimed as a dependent by another person._
> 
> http://www.irs.gov/Affordable-Care-Act/Individuals-and-Families/The-Premium-Tax-Credit


You are wrong cause she has the ACA right now and is employed and her employer has employer offered insurance.

https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/


----------



## BrattyPatty

NJG said:


> You are wrong cause she has the ACA right now and is employed and her employer has employer offered insurance.
> 
> https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/


There is no law that she would have to accept the employer offered insurance. Any one can sign up for the ACA.


----------



## BrattyPatty

NJG said:


> Right, they know it will go the same way as social security and medicare, although the republicans have turning medicare into a voucher system as part of their new budget. I do not remember any of the right wingers that make comments on here to ever say anything about SS and medicare, even if they are using both. They must realize that if the republicans gain complete control it will be the beginning of the end for both. IS that what they want. I wish they would answer.


Republicans don't know what they want. They are told what they want.


----------



## damemary

I find it hypocritical to vehemently oppose ACA and then take advantage of ACA when a family member can benefit.

I'm glad that ACA worked for your daughter's family, as it was supposed to, but I tired of your criticisms.



joeysomma said:


> Two comments. The one who had to pay back the $6,000 went on to the ACA on only her income. Her husband had insurance. When they did the taxes, it used both incomes. Therefore, all of the subsidy had to be paid back.
> 
> If a person has insurance available through an employer, they should not be eligible for a subsidy.


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for the update on your daughter. Sounds like she is doing very well for herself. As for the $6000 pay back it could never happen. Clearly a line of BS.


<<<whispering....like all joey's ACA/ Obamacare rants.>>>>


----------



## damemary

Well said Cheeky.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Stupid is right, Huck. They will scream bloody murder if anyone tries to touch those two programs. Things are only "bad" when they believe someone is getting something they aren't or they feel they aren't getting their fair share of the pie. In the mean time the big corporation aka Citizens United are robbing us all blind. They are easily deceived.


----------



## damemary

It's your problem joey. You've lied so much that no one believes you. You need to redeem yourself.



joeysomma said:


> I said it happened, so you either believe me or you don't. Your problem not mine!


----------



## damemary

joeysomma said:


> According to the IRS, your daughter is ineligible for the ACA tax credit, no matter the cost for the employer health plan. I believe she is also ineligible for the ACA.
> 
> Eligibility
> 
> _In general, you may be eligible for the credit if you meet all of the following:
> buy health insurance through the Marketplace;
> *are ineligible for coverage through an employer or government plan;*
> are within certain income limits;
> do not file a Married Filing Separately tax return (unless you meet criteria which allows certain victims of domestic abuse and spousal abandonment to claim the premium tax credit using the Married Filing Separately filing status); and
> cannot be claimed as a dependent by another person._
> 
> http://www.irs.gov/Affordable-Care-Act/Individuals-and-Families/The-Premium-Tax-Credit
> 
> PS. It was the person representing the ACA that made the mistake. And only calculated it on her income, not household income.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Always the last word. And I detect a nah, nah, nah, my daughter gets a subsidy not your daughter. Me, me, me.


----------



## damemary

BrattyPatty said:


> Republicans don't know what they want. They are told what they want.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry

damemary said:


> <<<whispering....like all joey's ACA/ Obamacare rants.>>>>


damemary
I hear them loud and clear, the invented stories. Same old, same old.


----------



## NJG

Poodlai said:


> But can someone get a subsidy when choosing ACA even if their employer offered a healthcare plan?


Yes, the cost of her employer provided insurance was more than through the ACA, and then it also has to do with number of people in the household. She is single, so just the one income. She also did not take the total amount of subsidy offered the first time or this time. Her subsidy this time, since she is no longer self employed, was quite a bit smaller than last year, but she still only took a portion of it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Poodlai said:


> But can someone get a subsidy when choosing ACA even if their employer offered a healthcare plan?


SQM is that you?


----------



## SQM

Country Bumpkins said:


> SQM is that you?


Hi Bumps!

Yeah but the bangs have grown out and are past the top of my glasses with the sides buzzed a bit. Very East Village.

That was my April Fools trick - to show the real fool behind the superior sloth.

Hope all is well with you and that your Governor proves smarter than some. (had to get that in)


----------



## Country Bumpkins

SQM said:


> Hi Bumps!
> 
> Yeah but the bangs have grown out and are past the top of my glasses with the sides buzzed a bit. Very East Village.
> 
> That was my April Fools trick - to show the real fool behind the superior sloth.
> 
> Hope all is well with you and that your Governor proves smarter than some. (had to get that in)


I meant Poodlai .
Nice picture. :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> SQM is that you?


Country Bumpkins
are you asking about the picture or the poster?


----------



## peacegoddess

Can you imagine what Molly Ivans would say about Ted? She must be rolling in her grave.


----------



## Huckleberry

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


damemary
ain't that the truth.


----------



## Huckleberry

peacegoddess said:


> Can you imagine what Molly Ivans would say about Ted? She must be rolling in her grave.


peacegoddess
so sad Molly Ivins is gone. We need more like her. In fact, she may have made a good replacement for Jon Stewart. She no doubt would have had lots of fun with Ted "McCarthy" Cruz.


----------



## damemary

Would she laugh or faint?



peacegoddess said:


> Can you imagine what Molly Ivans would say about Ted? She must be rolling in her grave.


----------



## damemary

I'd like to ask Jon Stewart what effect she may have had on him.



Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> so sad Molly Ivins is gone. We need more like her. In fact, she may have made a good replacement for Jon Stewart. She no doubt would have had lots of fun with Ted "McCarthy" Cruz.


----------



## MarilynKnits

damemary said:


> Would she laugh or faint?


Or toss her cookies?


----------



## damemary

MarilynKnits said:


> Or toss her cookies?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I vote for your toss her cookies.


----------



## lovethelake

damemary said:


> It's your problem joey. You've lied so much that no one believes you. You need to redeem yourself.


How arrogant a statement, especially coming from someone that supports the president that constantly lied about obamacare. Still looking for all the wonderful savings he promised.

Many people either lied or grossly underestimated their income to gain subsidies. Basically because obamacare did not make you prove your income. But along comes the IRS, and if you lied or by some miracle you found a job and your income does not match what you said it was, you must pay the subsidy back.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/12/will-i-have-to-pay-back-my-obamacare-subsidy/index.htm


----------



## damemary

You're entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.



lovethelake said:


> How arrogant a statement, especially coming from someone that supports the president that constantly lied about obamacare. Still looking for all the wonderful savings he promised.
> 
> Many people either lied or grossly underestimated their income to gain subsidies. Basically because obamacare did not make you prove your income. But along comes the IRS, and if you lied or by some miracle you found a job and your income does not match what you said it was, you must pay the subsidy back.
> 
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/12/will-i-have-to-pay-back-my-obamacare-subsidy/index.htm


----------



## susanmos2000

lovethelake said:



> How arrogant a statement, especially coming from someone that supports the president that constantly lied about obamacare. Still looking for all the wonderful savings he promised.
> 
> Many people either lied or grossly underestimated their income to gain subsidies. Basically because obamacare did not make you prove your income. But along comes the IRS, and if you lied or by some miracle you found a job and your income does not match what you said it was, you must pay the subsidy back.


Cry me a river. We hear plenty from the right about moochers, sponges, Welfare cheats, etc...why would you be in favor of someone keeping money they're not entitled to?

(PS--if you're truly concerned about this then pray the Supreme Court doesn't overturn the subsidy clause of the ACA this June. If those subsidies are ruled illegal it's possible that everyone who's already received one will have to pay the money back)


----------



## lovethelake

damemary said:


> You're entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.


What I gave were correct and unbiased FACTS not an opinion.

Finding out that swallowing the truth pill is difficult and wondering if you choke on it, will obamacare cover.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> How arrogant a statement, especially coming from someone that supports the president that constantly lied about obamacare. Still looking for all the wonderful savings he promised.
> 
> Many people either lied or grossly underestimated their income to gain subsidies. Basically because obamacare did not make you prove your income. But along comes the IRS, and if you lied or by some miracle you found a job and your income does not match what you said it was, you must pay the subsidy back.
> 
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/12/will-i-have-to-pay-back-my-obamacare-subsidy/index.htm


The only way to prove your 2014 income is at the end of 2014. That is just how it works. So people lied and under estimated their income in order to get subsidies, and that darn IRS has the nerve to make them pay it back, so you complain. If they didn't make them pay it back, you would complain. When the ACA is working, you complain and if it it didn't work, you would complain. It is a fact of life--you complain about everything. I would sure like to know if it was people on the right or on the left who did most of the "under estimating."

Besides that, any person that wasn't trying to cheat the government wouldn't have underestimated their income so grossly that they had a huge amount to pay back. If they did it on purpose, then they pay the price. Sounds right to me.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> She will never believe anything I say, But then that is normal for someone with a closed mind.


Oh that is funny!!!! You of all people have the nerve to talk about someone with a closed mind. If you had attended the graduation at Columbia in 1983 and saw Barack Obama receive his diploma, and inspected the diploma and saw that it was signed, you would still not believe he graduated. If you had attended class with him every day and witnessed him doing the work, you would still say he didn't graduate. Now that is a closed mind.


----------



## susanmos2000

I can see why the righties are suddenly in such a sweat about those subsidies. If the Supreme Court rules against them it only affects those states that didn't set up their own exchange--RED states, for the most part.

My oh my, I'd give my eyeteeth to hear how Governors Walker, Jindal et al explain to their constituencies that their health care subsidies have been taken away--it'd be worth a full set of dentures to watch them deal with the fallout if those subsidies in fact have to be paid back.

The GOP is poised to smash another cow flop pie right in its own face!


----------



## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> Oh that is funny!!!! You of all people have the nerve to talk about someone with a closed mind. If you had attended the graduation at Columbia in 1983 and saw Barack Obama receive his diploma, and inspected the diploma and saw that it was signed, you would still not believe he graduated. If you had attended class with him every day and witnessed him doing the work, you would still say he didn't graduate. Now that is a closed mind.


NJG
now that is a closed mind and not just on this subject as we have experienced for some time now.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> I can see why the righties are suddenly in such a sweat about those subsidies. If the Supreme Court rules against them it only affects those states that didn't set up their own exchange--RED states, for the most part.
> 
> My oh my, I'd give my eyeteeth to hear how Governors Walker, Jindal et al explain to their constituencies that their health care subsidies have been taken away--it'd be worth a full set of dentures to watch them deal with the fallout if those subsidies in fact have to be paid back.
> 
> susanmos2000
> it has become very clear that thinking ahead is out of the question for the GOP crowd. Of course they have to keep busy with something and that has been damage control over and over again. When they hit bottom and their deeds begin to give them real grief, they MAY wake up and change course. MAY I underline of course.
> The GOP is poised to smash another cow flop pie right in its own face!


----------



## lovethelake

NJG said:


> Oh that is funny!!!! You of all people have the nerve to talk about someone with a closed mind. If you had attended the graduation at Columbia in 1983 and saw Barack Obama receive his diploma, and inspected the diploma and saw that it was signed, you would still not believe he graduated. If you had attended class with him every day and witnessed him doing the work, you would still say he didn't graduate. Now that is a closed mind.


That is an outrageous lie. Facts are facts, and if those are the facts, they are the facts. Unfortunately, you appear to deal in the realm of feelings; and as any intelligent person knows feelings are feelings and not facts. Discussing facts with someone that prefers arguing their feelings is a total waste of time. It is especially a waste of time to argue someone in a constant state of anger and rage against people that disagree with them. Maybe age doesn't bring maturity, just Botox to get rid of all frown lines and furrowed brow gullies that most AOLW appear to suffer from.

What you appear not to acknowledge is that obamacare was thrown together so haphazardly that many of its parts are unconstitutional and must be made constitutional by corrective legislation. That is a fact. And all the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing 'what about the children' does not negate the fact that obamacare's foundation of government subsidies has turned into sand. That is why I initially was opposed to obamacare. Not because I do not want to help people that are truly needy, but because the law is flawed and should have been better written. If it had been written more professionally and scholarly, the courts would not have to be so involved over and over again. And remember Obama has been slapped down by the Supremes more than any other president and mostly by a unanimous vote.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> That is an outrageous lie. Facts are facts, and if those are the facts, they are the facts. Unfortunately, you appear to deal in the realm of feelings; and as any intelligent person knows feelings are feelings and not facts. Discussing facts with someone that prefers arguing their feelings is a total waste of time. It is especially a waste of time to argue someone in a constant state of anger and rage against people that disagree with them. Maybe age doesn't bring maturity, just Botox to get rid of all frown lines and furrowed brow gullies that most AOLW appear to suffer from.
> 
> What you appear not to acknowledge is that obamacare was thrown together so haphazardly that many of its parts are unconstitutional and must be made constitutional by corrective legislation. That is a fact. And all the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing 'what about the children' does not negate the fact that obamacare's foundation of government subsidies has turned into sand. That is why I initially was opposed to obamacare. Not because I do not want to help people that are truly needy, but because the law is flawed and should have been better written. If it had been written more professionally and scholarly, the courts would not have to be so involved over and over again. And remember Obama has been slapped down by the Supremes more than any other president and mostly by a unanimous vote.


lovethelake
your last sentence is a lie.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> That is an outrageous lie. Facts are facts, and if those are the facts, they are the facts. Unfortunately, you appear to deal in the realm of feelings; and as any intelligent person knows feelings are feelings and not facts. Discussing facts with someone that prefers arguing their feelings is a total waste of time. It is especially a waste of time to argue someone in a constant state of anger and rage against people that disagree with them. Maybe age doesn't bring maturity, just Botox to get rid of all frown lines and furrowed brow gullies that most AOLW appear to suffer from.
> 
> What you appear not to acknowledge is that obamacare was thrown together so haphazardly that many of its parts are unconstitutional and must be made constitutional by corrective legislation. That is a fact. And all the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing 'what about the children' does not negate the fact that obamacare's foundation of government subsidies has turned into sand. That is why I initially was opposed to obamacare. Not because I do not want to help people that are truly needy, but because the law is flawed and should have been better written. If it had been written more professionally and scholarly, the courts would not have to be so involved over and over again. And remember Obama has been slapped down by the Supremes more than any other president and mostly by a unanimous vote.


The fact is, first of all this comment was about her believing the president didn't graduate from Columbia and had nothing to do with the ACA. I posted a link from Columbia college that was talking about one of their alumni being elected president. Also some students and a professor that knew him while he was there, but she still doesn't believe it because one person who graduated didn't know him, so therefor he didn't graduate. There was no rage or anger, as I was laughing at her ignorance and refusal to believe the truth no matter what. I find that very funny.

You need to take your own advice. All the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing does not change the fact that the ACA is working and it has helped many many people. If the republicans cared about "we the people" as much as they want us to believe there would not have been all of these law suits and complaining. They actually have been against the ACA because they can not stand the fact that it is working and that it is an accomplishment of this president, the same way they have felt about social security and medicare since its beginning. That is why they are also against the deal with Iran, because they hate this president so much that they will do anything to make him fail. That means we all fail, but they don't care. Evidently that is what good Christians do.


----------



## susanmos2000

lovethelake said:


> That is an outrageous lie. Facts are facts, and if those are the facts, they are the facts. Unfortunately, you appear to deal in the realm of feelings; and as any intelligent person knows feelings are feelings and not facts. Discussing facts with someone that prefers arguing their feelings is a total waste of time. It is especially a waste of time to argue someone in a constant state of anger and rage against people that disagree with them. Maybe age doesn't bring maturity, just Botox to get rid of all frown lines and furrowed brow gullies that most AOLW appear to suffer from.
> 
> What you appear not to acknowledge is that obamacare was thrown together so haphazardly that many of its parts are unconstitutional and must be made constitutional by corrective legislation. That is a fact. And all the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing 'what about the children' does not negate the fact that obamacare's foundation of government subsidies has turned into sand.


Yes, quicksand, thanks to Republican anti-ACA frakking--they're up to their ears in the stuff. Out of sheer malice and spite those red governors refused to set up their own state exchanges, and now it's their constituencies who have to pay the tab. I feel for the folks in the red states. I do. But it's going to be a genuine pleasure watching Walker & Co try to roll roll roll out of their self-made quagmire onto solid financial ground. If they fail every last cent of those subsidies should come out of their pockets. They don't have the money hey? Then slap a pair of hot pants on Ted "Sign Me Up" Cruz and put him out on a street corner--at two bits a customer it'll be the most useful work of his life.


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, quicksand, thanks to Republican anti-ACA frakking--they're up to their ears in the stuff. Out of sheer malice and spite those red governors refused to set up their own state exchanges, and now it's their constituencies who have to pay the tab. I feel for the folks in the red states. I do. But it's going to be a genuine pleasure watching Walker & Co try to roll roll roll out of their self-made quagmire onto solid financial ground. If they fail every last cent of those subsidies should come out of their pockets. They don't have the money hey? Then slap a pair of hot pants on Ted "Sign Me Up" Cruz and put him out on a street corner--at two bits a customer it'll be the most useful work of his life.


How about 2 cents a customer?


----------



## NJG

BrattyPatty said:


> How about 2 cents a customer?


OH no, that is too scary!!!!!


----------



## SQM

BrattyPatty said:


> How about 2 cents a customer?


You are so outrageous. That is why I love you. You lighten my anxious spirit.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

NJG said:


> The fact is, first of all this comment was about her believing the president didn't graduate from Columbia and had nothing to do with the ACA. I posted a link from Columbia college that was talking about one of their alumni being elected president. Also some students and a professor that knew him while he was there, but she still doesn't believe it because one person who graduated didn't know him, so therefor he didn't graduate. There was no rage or anger, as I was laughing at her ignorance and refusal to believe the truth no matter what. I find that very funny.
> 
> You need to take your own advice. All the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing does not change the fact that the ACA is working and it has helped many many people. If the republicans cared about "we the people" as much as they want us to believe there would not have been all of these law suits and complaining. They actually have been against the ACA because they can not stand the fact that it is working and that it is an accomplishment of this president, the same way they have felt about social security and medicare since its beginning. That is why they are also against the deal with Iran, because they hate this president so much that they will do anything to make him fail. That means we all fail, but they don't care. Evidently that is what good Christians do.


 :thumbup: Thanks for telling the truth Norma.

Lake lady got her info on ACA credits from Consumer Reports dated back in Dec. 2013 and readers were sending in questions about their premium subsidies and the article explains to them how to handle the situation. Her article does not say there is anything wrong with ACA so it does not appear to defend any point she thinks she may have. Maybe she is just confused. People knew when they signed up that they may owe in or get an increased credit based on their prior year's reported income. They did not have to take the entire credit indicated but could have taken a lesser amount or nothing at all and gotten the credit refund when they filed their tax return if they had one coming. If they didn't know this then they didn't read the instructions when they filled out the application. This "not reading important papers" appears to be an obvious shortcoming to those on the right. Either they say they don't have time or what they needed to know was "hidden" from them by the devious Democrats. We hear this coming from their reps. in Congress all the time. All they can come up with is one lame excuse after another. Poor darlings. How helpless can one get or should I say hopeless.

Published: December 17, 2013 05:57 PM in Consumer Reports.

ltl must think everyone is as ignorant and ill informed as she is. I guess she is trying to get caught up on her reading. :lol: :XD:


----------



## NJG

Here is some very interesting reading. It is amazing how some people live without knowing anything about how their neighbors live.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/10/why_i_left_the_gop/


----------



## damemary

<<<whispering....blah, blah, blah. See no evil. Hear no evil. Smell? Well you can't have everything.>>>


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :thumbup: Thanks for telling the truth Norma.
> 
> Lake lady got her info on ACA credits from Consumer Reports dated back in Dec. 2013 and readers were sending in questions about their premium subsidies. People knew when they signed up that they may owe in or get an increased credit based on what they reported as their income and they did not have to take the entire credit indicated but could have taken a lesser amount or nothing at all and gotten the credit refund when they filed their tax return. If they didn't know this then they didn't read the instructions when they filled out the application.
> 
> Published: December 17, 2013 05:57 PM in Consumer Reports.
> 
> ltl must think everyone is as ignorant and ill informed as she is. I guess she is trying to get caught up on her reading. :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> How about 2 cents a customer?


I didn't think you could do it, Patty but you topped yourself. Bravo!
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

lovethelake said:


> What I gave were correct and unbiased FACTS not an opinion.
> 
> Finding out that swallowing the truth pill is difficult and wondering if you choke on it, will obamacare cover.


I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate against Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: tbbc :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## NJG

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :thumbup: Thanks for telling the truth Norma.
> 
> Lake lady got her info on ACA credits from Consumer Reports dated back in Dec. 2013 and readers were sending in questions about their premium subsidies. People knew when they signed up that they may owe in or get an increased credit based on what they reported as their income and they did not have to take the entire credit indicated but could have taken a lesser amount or nothing at all and gotten the credit refund when they filed their tax return if they had one coming. If they didn't know this then they didn't read the instructions when they filled out the application. This "not reading important papers" appears to be an obvious shortcoming to those on the right. Either they say they don't have time or what they needed to know was "hidden" from them by the devious Democrats. We hear this coming from their reps. in Congress all the time. All they can come up with is one lame excuse after another. Poor darlings. How helpless can one get or should I say hopeless.
> 
> Published: December 17, 2013 05:57 PM in Consumer Reports.
> 
> ltl must think everyone is as ignorant and ill informed as she is. I guess she is trying to get caught up on her reading. :lol: :XD:


It is always easier to blame someone else. My daughter has not taken her full subsidy either year. Last year, being self employed, it was hard to predict what her total income would be, so this year she did the same thing. It is just a matter of using that thing that sits between your shoulders.


----------



## damemary

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate against Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: tbbc :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate against Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: tbbc :XD: :XD: :XD:


Hey, its good enough for Cruz, it should be good for anybody. :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

NJG said:


> The fact is, first of all this comment was about her believing the president didn't graduate from Columbia and had nothing to do with the ACA. I posted a link from Columbia college that was talking about one of their alumni being elected president. Also some students and a professor that knew him while he was there, but she still doesn't believe it because one person who graduated didn't know him, so therefor he didn't graduate. There was no rage or anger, as I was laughing at her ignorance and refusal to believe the truth no matter what. I find that very funny.
> 
> You need to take your own advice. All the gnashing of teeth, beating of the breast, and wailing does not change the fact that the ACA is working and it has helped many many people. If the republicans cared about "we the people" as much as they want us to believe there would not have been all of these law suits and complaining. They actually have been against the ACA because they can not stand the fact that it is working and that it is an accomplishment of this president, the same way they have felt about social security and medicare since its beginning. That is why they are also against the deal with Iran, because they hate this president so much that they will do anything to make him fail. That means we all fail, but they don't care. Evidently that is what good Christians do.


SOME good Christians do - I really believe that more and more moderate Christians will see through the untruths and dislike and will not want to be included with them. As more and more of the people who are so fundamentalist and far right show their plans for the future if they win, I believe that the moderates will not accept their rigid, narrow outlook. I hope that is the case anyway.

Well ladies, time for me to go to bed and read. I have had my say, so am feeling good about that. Happy Easter for those who Celebrate Easter. Happy Holidays for those who dont. My thoughts are with you all!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Happy Easter to you as well, Shirley.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

NJG said:


> It is always easier to blame someone else. My daughter has not taken her full subsidy either year. Last year, being self employed, it was hard to predict what her total income would be, so this year she did the same thing. It is just a matter of using that thing that sits between your shoulders.


I don't think ltl has anything sitting up there. It's a common condition on the extreme right and appears to be spreading among them. Kind of like Dawn of the Dead they are a bunch of mindless zombies.


----------



## NJG

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I don't think ltl has anything sitting up there. It's a common condition on the extreme right and appears to be spreading among them. Kind of like Dawn of the Dead they are a bunch of mindless zombies.


----------



## lovethelake

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: tbbc :XD: :XD: :XD:


tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.


----------



## lovethelake

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I don't think ltl has anything sitting up there. It's a common condition on the extreme right and appears to be spreading among them. Kind of like Dawn of the Dead they are a bunch of mindless zombies.


First of all, Virginia is a Commonwealth if you want to be correct.

You had to go back before 2007 (that is when that sticker expires) to find something that you assume is hateful. For all you know it is a joke and possibly on a soccer mom's minivan. And I doubt if it were a sincere and cannibalistic plate that a Conservative would have that ..........it is the Democrats that support abortion and the murder of the unborn children.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.


Because hate is what this president has experienced, from those on the right, since he has been in office. There is no other word to describe how he has been treated. It definitely is a lot more than disagreeing with him. The name calling and nastiness can only be described as hate.


----------



## jmf6406

lovethelake said:


> .it is the Democrats that support abortion and the murder of the unborn children.


Well, as one commentator put it, the Democrats are the party that cares about you AFTER you are born.


----------



## SQM

jmf6406 said:


> Well, as one commentator put it, the Democrats are the party that cares about you AFTER you are born.


That is when you spend most of your life independently. Score for the Dems on this one.


----------



## Huckleberry

Bratty Patty
THANK YOU. Lovely picture of Ted.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> First of all, Virginia is a Commonwealth if you want to be correct.
> 
> Democrats that support abortion and the murder of the unborn children.


lovethelake
and the Republicans let children die at the rate of thousands every minute. I opt for not being born rather than starving to death.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.


lovethelake
you bet your sweet bipy we deal with feelings based on facts. Liberals are the caring folks and a large segment of Republicans, well they lost all humanity.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I don't think ltl has anything sitting up there. It's a common condition on the extreme right and appears to be spreading among them. Kind of like Dawn of the Dead they are a bunch of mindless zombies.


Cheeky Blighter
THANK YOU.


----------



## Huckleberry

NJG

THANK YOU.


----------



## Designer1234

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.












We know you too well.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I didn't think you could do it, Patty but you topped yourself. Bravo!
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Or, when soliciting the men of the 1%, "Brother can you spare a dime?" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## SQM

Happy Easter Maidala.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> It would be wonderful if they did. Many of them are VERY dependent on the government for their existence. The Dems like it that way. Then they vote Democratic.


joeysomma
they are? Nowhere being seen in my neck of the woods. Well, you are just regurgitating what others feed you. We know the game.


----------



## SQM

joeysomma said:


> It would be wonderful if they did. Many of them are VERY dependent on the government for their existence. The Dems like it that way. Then they vote Democratic.


Seems like all is fair in love and politics. A very happy Easter to you, Mrs. Somma.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> So you do not know anyone who is getting food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, energy assistance,or free lunches at school? Someone who is receiving any one of these is dependent on the government, NOT independent.


joeysomma
please resign from calling yourself a Christian. You give those who are truly Christians such a horrible image. I do know people who go to food Banks because their meager income from two and three jobs does not earn enough money to take care of everything. Those are decent people who are in need and not because of their own fault. They had good paying jobs which were outsourced and they had a hard time finding other employment. You don't care about those, do you. You spit on anyone who has fallen on hard times, shame on you. Your behavior towards the Needy is despicable. If Jesus would meet you he would kick you in the butt with full force and out of his Church.


----------



## Huckleberry

SQM said:


> Seems like all is fair in love and politics. A very happy Easter to you, Mrs. Somma.


SQM
someone as hateful as she is towards the needy does not deserve anything happy.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> Then you cannot say they are independent. A totally independent person will need not depend on anyone than them selves. They will work and pay for what ever they need. I never said there are many who do not need some help, but then, they are NOT independent.
> 
> Any one who needs help, is NOT independent, period.


joeysomma
are you out of your frickin mind? You seem so demented that you can no longer grab reality. I guess you refuse SS and Medicare. I am SO glad about that. Again, please, no more pretending to be a Christian. It makes me sick. Were not your kids looking for additional work some time back? How independent did you rear them, when they need others to employ them.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> I have paid for those all of my working life, no entitlement (gift) from the government. I supposedly invested the Social Security and Medicare tax paid, to provide *some* retirement income and health insurance. It sure isn't enough to replace my pre-retirement income and health insurance. One reason I am still working.


joeysomma
MOST people get out more than they ever paid in. Why are you so dependent? Did not work hard enough to get more SS? Get where I am going?


----------



## lovethelake

NJG said:


> Because hate is what this president has experienced, from those on the right, since he has been in office. There is no other word to describe how he has been treated. It definitely is a lot more than disagreeing with him. The name calling and nastiness can only be described as hate.


No it was stated that I hated him, which I repeat is not true. So if you namecall you are a hater? When is he going to put his 'big boy pants' and stop being so thin skinned when someone disagrees with him? What about the comments he made in the State of the Union address toward the Supreme Court Justices? What about his comment that Republicans can come along for the ride if they sit at the back of the bus? What about his comment about him bringing a gun to fight the Republicans, yeah right the Republicans always carry knives? (Maybe he is a closeted NRA member). What about if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? What about the thousands in health savings we were all promised? ............So when Repugs and teabaggers are used by Libs that is not hate? Maybe it is he that can only draw a line in the sand when it comes to Republicans but not against countries that use WMD's against their own people.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> No it was stated that I hated him, which I repeat is not true. So if you namecall you are a hater? When is he going to put his 'big boy pants' and stop being so thin skinned when someone disagrees with him? What about the comments he made in the State of the Union address toward the Supreme Court Justices? What about his comment that Republicans can come along for the ride if they sit at the back of the bus? What about his comment about him bringing a gun to fight the Republicans, yeah right the Republicans always carry knives? (Maybe he is a closeted NRA member). What about if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? What about the thousands in health savings we were all promised? ............So when Repugs and teabaggers are used by Libs that is not hate? Maybe it is he that can only draw a line in the sand when it comes to Republicans but not against countries that use WMD's against their own people.


lovethelake
you are continuously quoting out of context. Well, why change now.


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> Then you cannot say they are independent. A totally independent person will need not depend on anyone than them selves. They will work and pay for what ever they need. I never said there are many who do not need some help, but then, they are NOT independent.
> 
> Any one who needs help, is NOT independent, period.


Joey, just can it. It's the same old crap with you. I hope you don't call yourself a Christian. The real Christians would not agree with you.
Jesus said to care for the poor. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him. And you sit on your pompous butt and cry that Christians are losing their freedom. Freedom to spit on and kick the the poor? That I would believe. I don't understand your version of being a Christian, nor would I want to.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> they are? Nowhere being seen in my neck of the woods. Well, you are just regurgitating what others feed you. We know the game.


Huck,
Not in my neck of the woods either.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck,
> Not in my neck of the woods either.


Bratty Patty
Listening to many Republican, one might get he impression that they are the only ones working and the rest of us are sitting on our duffs looking for handouts. Obviously she never worked as hard as I did or she would not still have to work for the essentials. I count myself lucky and will always lend a hand to those who are not as fortunate. That is what caring people do. One of our friends here is a true Christian, she steadfast feeds the hungry and keeps them warm. If there is a Heaven, a place for her is reserved for sure.


----------



## GWPlver

lovethelake said:


> How arrogant a statement, especially coming from someone that supports the president that constantly lied about obamacare. Still looking for all the wonderful savings he promised.
> 
> Many people either lied or grossly underestimated their income to gain subsidies. Basically because obamacare did not make you prove your income. But along comes the IRS, and if you lied or by some miracle you found a job and your income does not match what you said it was, you must pay the subsidy back.
> 
> Who are the many? Do you know them? Can you substantiate the claims or are you merely regurgitating what you think you heard or read?
> 
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/12/will-i-have-to-pay-back-my-obamacare-subsidy/index.htm


----------



## GWPlver

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.


Thank goodness you admit that liberals have feelings. That is a big step for a conservative. And thanks for that.


----------



## GWPlver

joeysomma said:


> It would be wonderful if they did. Many of them are VERY dependent on the government for their existence. The Dems like it that way. Then they vote Democratic.


And exactly how do you know that? And how very sad for you to say this.


----------



## GWPlver

joeysomma said:


> So you do not know anyone who is getting food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, energy assistance,or free lunches at school? Someone who is receiving any one of these is dependent on the government, NOT independent.


I do know some - and it doesn't matter their political leanings. If their children are hungry, if they need rent assistance - then we are called to assist. Do you not feel the same calling? Or is your heart hardened?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! tbbc 

lovethelake wrote
tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.

Remember Benghazi

Your response to my liking Obama Care makes no sense ltl. Was there anything I said that you did not understand? Facts were not asked for or needed. Yes I have good happy feelings and it's too bad that that upsets you. Too bad you cannot be happy for me.


----------



## Designer1234

GWPlver said:


> And exactly how do you know that? And how very sad for you to say this.


 Only negative -never positive.


----------



## Designer1234

GWPlver said:


> And exactly how do you know that? And how very sad for you to say this.


I agree


----------



## Designer1234

.


----------



## Designer1234

joeysomma said:


> Then you cannot say they are independent. A totally independent person will need not depend on anyone than them selves. They will work and pay for what ever they need. I never said there are many who do not need some help, but then, they are NOT independent.
> 
> Any one who needs help, is NOT independent, period.


knit picking again,Joey? Ignore the meat of the post you are supposed to be answering .


----------



## Designer1234

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> I have Obama Care and I love it! Same clinic, doctors, hospital more preventative care free for all. Insurance through Blue Cross. ltl you just hate the fact that our President will go down in history as one of the best and it's eating all you righties up alive. Yes it will cover you when you choke on your words ltl. Even you can be covered. Obama Care doesn't discriminate Obama haters. I'm doing my happy dance! tbbc
> 
> lovethelake wrote
> tsk tsk. Why do liberals always use the word hate? Disagreeing with someone does not mean you hate them. Again you prove my premise that liberals only think in terms of feelings which are not facts.
> 
> Remember Benghazi
> 
> Your response to my liking Obama Care makes no sense ltl. Was there anything I said that you did not understand? Facts were not asked for or needed. Yes I have good happy feelings and it's too bad that that upsets you. Too bad you cannot be happy for me.


Not a chance of that happening. Never ever. Sad indeed. Iam glad it works so well for you. It is nice to see you posting.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
I don't think ltl has anything sitting up there. It's a common condition on the extreme right and appears to be spreading among them. Kind of like Dawn of the Dead they are a bunch of mindless zombies.

lovethelake wrote
First of all, Virginia is a Commonwealth if you want to be correct.

You had to go back before 2007 (that is when that sticker expires) to find something that you assume is hateful. For all you know it is a joke and possibly on a soccer mom's minivan. And I doubt if it were a sincere and cannibalistic plate that a Conservative would have that ..........it is the Democrats that support abortion and the murder of the unborn children.

Remember Benghazi



Cheeky Blighter wrote
ltl you are a sad case. I found nothing hateful about the VA plate and found it very amusing. You are the one who labeled it hateful and not me. I was talking about Zombies and you bring up abortion and murder. What a sick mind you have. You have absolutely no sense of humor and you can not differentiate between factual things and your own little disgusting, sordid and distorted world of unreality. If you identify with the plate or are disturbed by it it is solely your interpretation of what you see and your skills of decerning are limited at best.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> I have paid for those all of my working life, no entitlement (gift) from the government. I supposedly invested the Social Security and Medicare tax paid, to provide *some* retirement income and health insurance. It sure isn't enough to replace my pre-retirement income and health insurance. One reason I am still working.


As has everyone else who is receiving SS & medicare. So then tell me why the republicans are trying to change medicare into a voucher system and constantly wanting to make cuts to SS? Tell me why they changed the rules on SS disability and those people will get 20% cuts to their benefits starting in 2016 if they won't allow reallocation of funds as has been done 11 times in the past. Republicans also want to change the retirement age to 70. Just who are they looking out for? It is not those in need, such as the elderly and veterans. They are looking out for the 1% as always.


----------



## NJG

lovethelake said:


> No it was stated that I hated him, which I repeat is not true. So if you namecall you are a hater? When is he going to put his 'big boy pants' and stop being so thin skinned when someone disagrees with him? What about the comments he made in the State of the Union address toward the Supreme Court Justices? What about his comment that Republicans can come along for the ride if they sit at the back of the bus? What about his comment about him bringing a gun to fight the Republicans, yeah right the Republicans always carry knives? (Maybe he is a closeted NRA member). What about if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? What about the thousands in health savings we were all promised? ............So when Repugs and teabaggers are used by Libs that is not hate? Maybe it is he that can only draw a line in the sand when it comes to Republicans but not against countries that use WMD's against their own people.


You use one republican talking point after another. You never have an original thought of your own.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> So you do not know anyone who is getting food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, energy assistance,or free lunches at school? Someone who is receiving any one of these is dependent on the government, NOT independent.


I posted this earlier, and I will post it again. I think you should read it. This former republican had his eyes opened to the real world. The republicans just sit back like you do and point their finger at everyone in need of a little help. There are millions of stories out there of how people got to where they are, and the problem with republicans is they aren't interested. If a person needs a hand up, they call it a hand out and say the are dependent on the government. Who was it that destroyed the economy and caused many many people to loose their jobs. Who is it that now wants to cut every program that helps those people in need? Who is it that has total disrespect for anyone that needs a hand up? Who is it that wants to turn medicare into a voucher system and if that were to happen who would benefit from that change? If SS benefits were cut, who would benefit from that? Who wants to repeal the ACA and who would benefit if it were repealed? Who is benefiting from the destruction of unions?

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/10/why_i_left_the_gop/


----------



## susanmos2000

joeysomma said:


> The discussion was about people being independent. I have copied the definition of independent, just in case you do not know what it means.
> 
> You can not say anyone that receives a form of government assistance like food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, energy assistance etc is independent.


So true--let's see which states take the most in federal benefits and cut them loose. Hmmm....

1. New Mexico

2. Mississippi

3. Alaska

4. Louisiana

5. W. Virginia

6. N. Dakota

7. Alabama

8. S. Dakota

9. Virginia

10. Kentucky

Works for me!


----------



## susanmos2000

joeysomma said:


> I don't care who has the most in federal funds. If some one is getting government benefits, such as food stamps, Medicaid, energy assistance, rent assistance, they will NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. PERIOD. This is enough of this, your minds are totally closed to reality.
> 
> I am referring to people being independent, not the government.


Of course you've had enough. Why admit that the so-called independent folks in these red states are the biggest takers of all? In fact I don't begrudge them those tax dollars--why would I want to deny anyone nutritional aid or anti-poverty programs? But it's unbelievably hypocritical of you to equate voting the Republican ticket with staunch independence--it's anything BUT.


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> I don't care who has the most in federal funds. If some one is getting government benefits, such as food stamps, Medicaid, energy assistance, rent assistance, they will NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. PERIOD. This is enough of this, your minds are totally closed to reality.
> 
> I am referring to people being independent, not the government.


Did it ever enter your mind that most people get off of these programs when their circumstances get better? So yes, eventually they will be independent. a lot of these people pay taxes that go into these programs. If they need it, they should accept the help.

I would say that our minds may be closed to YOUR warped reality.


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> It would be wonderful if they did. Many of them are VERY dependent on the government for their existence. The Dems like it that way. Then they vote Democratic.


It has nothing to do which they vote. Democrats are givers to those in need.
Jesus is a Democrat. We follow his path when it comes to the indigent citizens of our country. Instead of speaking of them with distain, we do something about it. Do you think that all of the people who are receiving Gov't assistance are happy and proud of it? Most are humiliated when signing up for it.

You are getting daffier by the post.


----------



## lovethelake

Designer1234 said:


> knit picking again,Joey? Ignore the meat of the post you are supposed to be answering .


The term is 'nit picking' FYI

I heard on the morning news that 52% of all obamacare subsidy receivers owe on average over $500 in taxes, according to H&R Block. I believe that 30% get money back; but since a dollar amount wasn't mentioned, I doubt that it is very much. How is that possible? We were all promised that we would be saving thousands of dollars because of obamacare. Well tell that to the lower income people that received subsidies (aka other people's tax money) and have to find over $500 to repay the government.


----------



## Wombatnomore

lovethelake said:


> The term is 'nit picking' FYI
> 
> I heard on the morning news that 52% of all obamacare subsidy receivers owe on average over $500 in taxes, according to H&R Block. I believe that 30% get money back; but since a dollar amount wasn't mentioned, I doubt that it is very much. How is that possible? We were all promised that we would be saving thousands of dollars because of obamacare. Well tell that to the lower income people that received subsidies (aka other people's tax money) and have to find over $500 to repay the government.


All you can seem to come up with are your perceived issues around the ACA and Benghazi. You're the one who went on about facts not that many posts ago so why are you asking questions about a government incentive here? Contact your local representative and ask him/her for the FACTS.


----------



## galinipper

susanmos2000 said:


> So true--let's see which states take the most in federal benefits and cut them loose. Hmmm....
> 
> 1. New Mexico
> 
> 2. Mississippi
> 
> 3. Alaska
> 
> 4. Louisiana
> 
> 5. W. Virginia
> 
> 6. N. Dakota
> 
> 7. Alabama
> 
> 8. S. Dakota
> 
> 9. Virginia
> 
> 10. Kentucky
> 
> Works for me!


 Give them time to get there finances in order, I would say 6 months, and then cut them off, and lower the working peoples taxes. Then take ten more states and do the same....until all 57  states have been unchained and the establishment has been downsized and workable. Give the States back the responsibility of running there own States. Watch people innovate, the state will have enough money to take care of the truely needy and handicapped citizens, the citizens that can work but won't, well, they also had the 6 months to prepare........There's a reason this will not happen, and it's not a good one. Keeping people dependent is a profitable business. Just look at how the establishment lives on your dollar.


----------



## SQM

lovethelake said:


> The term is 'nit picking' FYI
> 
> I heard on the morning news that 52% of all obamacare subsidy receivers owe on average over $500 in taxes, according to H&R Block. I believe that 30% get money back; but since a dollar amount wasn't mentioned, I doubt that it is very much. How is that possible? We were all promised that we would be saving thousands of dollars because of obamacare. Well tell that to the lower income people that received subsidies (aka other people's tax money) and have to find over $500 to repay the government.


Wouldn't you rather see your tax money go help others than to the military that kills people?


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course you've had enough. Why admit that the so-called independent folks in these red states are the biggest takers of all? In fact I don't begrudge them those tax dollars--why would I want to deny anyone nutritional aid or anti-poverty programs? But it's unbelievably hypocritical of you to equate voting the Republican ticket with staunch independence--it's anything BUT.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

BrattyPatty said:


> Did it ever enter your mind that most people get off of these programs when their circumstances get better? So yes, eventually they will be independent. a lot of these people pay taxes that go into these programs. If they need it, they should accept the help.
> 
> I would say that our minds may be closed to YOUR warped reality.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

.



joeysomma said:


> Military any day! Do you want ISIS knocking at your door? Oh! that's right they would not knock, just barge in with guns blazing.
> 
> The Military is working for me, Those committing welfare fraud are stealing from me.


----------



## theyarnlady

joeysomma said:


> I don't care who has the most in federal funds. If some one is getting government benefits, such as food stamps, Medicaid, energy assistance, rent assistance, they will NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. PERIOD. This is enough of this, your minds are totally closed to reality.
> 
> I am referring to people being independent, not the government.


Joey I was just thinking, do you remember when when Thomson was Governor? He put in program of right to work in place. Those who did not really need welfare and could work. They were required to get a job. If they didn't their benefits where taken away. If they did find a job, they would only receive the amount that they did not get from the job they had. Cost went down and save money for what it was meant for. That was state control . It work just fine.
As to military their budget has been cut. So no one can complain about that. Welfare up, military down.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> Do you also remember when 0bama became President, he decided that able-bodied people no longer needed to work to get welfare. We had Governor Doyle, Democrat, at that time. Bye - bye working for benefits.


Hi Joey, I don't know why you're wasting your time talking to the Liberal nut jobs posting on this thread.

They are ignorant of the facts and reality and only trying to incite people (their regular MO).

Nothing but a complete waste of time IMO. Have fun but we all know the expression of trying to talk logic to an idiot.

I'd rather talk to a tree.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Joey, I don't know why you're wasting your time talking to the Liberal nut jobs posting on this thread.
> 
> They are ignorant of the facts and reality and only trying to incite people (their regular MO).
> 
> Nothing but a complete waste of time IMO. Have fun but we all know the expression of trying to talk logic to an idiot.
> 
> I'd rather talk to a tree.


OK--here's a good one.


----------



## SQM

susanmos2000 said:


> OK--here's a good one.


Your are playing your top game today. (Positive reinforcement)


----------



## Designer1234

joeysomma said:


> Military any day! Do you want ISIS knocking at your door? Oh! that's right they would not knock, just barge in with guns blazing.
> 
> The Military is working for me, Those committing welfare fraud are stealing from me.


Why doesn't that surprise me.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Joey, I don't know why you're wasting your time talking to the Liberal nut jobs posting on this thread.
> 
> They are ignorant of the facts and reality and only trying to incite people (their regular MO).
> 
> Nothing but a complete waste of time IMO. Have fun but we all know the expression of trying to talk logic to an idiot.
> 
> I'd rather talk to a tree.


You always insert yourself and tell us you don't want to talk to us and throw out insults-- why are you here? Better to go to the forest and actually talk to the trees. I doubt they will pay any attention either.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> OK--here's a good one.


Good for you - you do talk out of your back side don't you? What an appropriate picture and so fitting to my description of those I dubbed "Liberal nut jobs" which you just accepted for your moniker.

At least you know how you are looked upon.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good for you - you do talk out of your back side don't you? What an appropriate picture and so fitting to my description of those I dubbed "Liberal nut jobs" which you just accepted for your moniker.
> 
> At least you know how you are looked upon.


Nasty, Nasty!!!!!!but to be expected. Such a lady - not.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Designer1234 said:


> You always insert yourself and tell us you don't want to talk to us and throw out insults-- why are you here? Better to go to the forest and actually talk to the trees. I doubt they will pay attention either.
> 
> Yes, we all do know what it is like to talk to an idiot. Well put.


Give it up, Designer. I responded to Joey. Obviously you don't remember or refuse to acknowledge that I started this thread. I don't insult you because I don't TALK to you and your Liberal friends unless you include yourself in being one that I just referred to as "Liberal Nut Jobs." I don't need your permission or authority to post where I please and you also refuse to acknowledge who has written pages upon pages of insults. That would be the LIBS.

You know, the Liberal NUT jobs, including you, always putting in your two cents that is also worthless.

Oh, and you should be talking about YOUR leaders, you know, Canadians, and not about the President of the USA, the title for this thread, because the President is OUR leader of which you have no say.

Ha - you and the Libs ignoring me (like the trees not paying me attention either?) Who do you think you're kidding? The Lib Nuts have attempted to hijack this thread as they do any thread begun by a non-Lib, attack and insult because that is all you know and do. Ah,huh, you all don't pay us any attention. I have a forest or two or thirty to sell you. How many do you want?

What a bunch of loons ...


----------



## Designer1234

Designer1234 said:


> Nasty, Nasty!!!!!!but to be expected. Such a lady - not.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> Give it up, Designer. Obviously you don't remember that I started this thread. I don't insult you because I don't TALK to you and your Liberal friends. I don't need your permission or authority to post where I please and you also don't realize who has written pages upon pages of insult. That would be the LIBS.
> 
> That would be the Liberal NUT jobs including you always putting in your two cents that is also worthless.
> 
> Oh, and you should be talking about your leaders, you know, Canadians, and not about the President of the USA, the title for this thread, because the President is OUR leader of which you have no say.
> 
> What a bunch of loons ...


 This is an open forum, so deal with it. Canada is affected by 
what happens in the US.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Designer1234 said:


> Nasty, Nasty!!!!!!but to be expected. Such a lady - not.


Guess who posted the picture? A LIBERAL! Deal with your own nastiness.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

BrattyPatty said:


> Joey, just can it. It's the same old crap with you. I hope you don't call yourself a Christian. The real Christians would not agree with you.
> Jesus said to care for the poor. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him. And you sit on your pompous butt and cry that Christians are losing their freedom. Freedom to spit on and kick the the poor? That I would believe. I don't understand your version of being a Christian, nor would I want to.


I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.

No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.

Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Designer1234 said:


> This is an open forum, so deal with it.


No kidding?

I'd rather ignore you and your Lib nutty friends and mostly do.

"Hi" beautiful, living and giving trees ....


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Any learned person have any idea who the Dems will run for the Presidential nomination?

I cannot see Hillary going anywhere.

Warren continus to say she'll not run - I'm betting the Dems are really pressing her to run though with the mess Clinton has gotten herself into again.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> No kidding?
> 
> I'd rather ignore you and your Lib nuts and do.
> 
> "Hi" beautiful, living and giving trees ....


 :shock: :shock:


----------



## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> You use one republican talking point after another. You never have an original thought of your own.


NJG
ain't that the truth and nothing but........


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> The discussion was about people being independent. I have copied the definition of independent, just in case you do not know what it means.
> 
> You can not say anyone that receives a form of government assistance like food stamps, Medicaid, rent assistance, energy assistance etc is independent.
> 
> in·de·pen·dent (in′dĭ-pĕn′dənt)adj.
> 
> 1. Not governed by a foreign power; self-governing.
> 
> 2. Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant: an independent mind.
> 
> 3. Not determined or influenced by someone or something else; not contingent: a decision independent of the outcome of the study.
> 
> 4. often Independent Affiliated with or loyal to no one political party or organization.
> 
> 5. Not dependent on or affiliated with a larger or controlling entity: an independent food store; an independent film.
> 
> 6. * Not relying on others for support, care, or funds; self-supporting.*


joeysomma
KPG taught you well. You really believe that we do not know the definitions of ANY words we use? Honestly? So you are telling us that you are dependent. O.K. we accept that.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


joeysomma
get off the roads Madam. They have been paved with Tax money. Don't cross any Bridges, building them took Tax money. The Church you belong to is supported by Tax money and I make up for it with my Taxes and I don't like it.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Joey, I don't know why you're wasting your time talking to the Liberal nut jobs posting on this thread.
> 
> They are ignorant of the facts and reality and only trying to incite people (their regular MO).
> 
> Nothing but a complete waste of time IMO. Have fun but we all know the expression of trying to talk logic to an idiot.
> 
> I'd rather talk to a tree.


knipresentgifts
poor Tree having to listen to you.


----------



## damemary

susanmos2000 said:


> OK--here's a good one.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

Nothing here for someone with a brain, much less a heart. Bye bye.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

galinipper said:


> Give them time to get there finances in order, I would say 6 months, and then cut them off, and lower the working peoples taxes. Then take ten more states and do the same....until all 57  states have been unchained and the establishment has been downsized and workable. Give the States back the responsibility of running there own States. Watch people innovate, the state will have enough money to take care of the truely needy and handicapped citizens, the citizens that can work but won't, well, they also had the 6 months to prepare........There's a reason this will not happen, and it's not a good one. Keeping people dependent is a profitable business. Just look at how the establishment lives on your dollar.


 :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.
> 
> No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.
> 
> Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: * Bravo! Well put. Perfect summary. I take back what I said about no one with brains or heart around here. Thank you MIB. *


----------



## susanmos2000

SQM said:


> Your are playing your top game today. (Positive reinforcement)


Thanks, SQM...though judging by KPG's response the opportunity to commune with nature is doing no good at all. A certain party is still leaving puddles on the floor and needs a swat with a rolled-up newspaper.


----------



## damemary

Hi doggie on a stroll.



knitpresentgifts said:


> No kidding?
> 
> I'd rather ignore you and your Lib nutty friends and mostly do.
> 
> "Hi" beautiful, living and giving trees ....


----------



## damemary

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## damemary

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> get off the roads Madam. They have been paved with Tax money. Don't cross any Bridges, building them took Tax money. The Church you belong to is supported by Tax money and I make up for it with my Taxes and I don't like it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

Don't worry. The doggies are coming to make a deposit.



Huckleberry said:


> knipresentgifts
> poor Tree having to listen to you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Designer1234 said:


> You always insert yourself and tell us you don't want to talk to us and throw out insults-- why are you here? Better to go to the forest and actually talk to the trees. I doubt they will pay any attention either.


But she is talking about her country and her concern . There are plenty of people listening to her. Also you and your nasty remarks back to her.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


That is the way we do it too. Amen.


----------



## susanmos2000

Huckleberry said:


> knipresentgifts
> poor Tree having to listen to you.


So true. Forced intimacy has its disadvantages...


----------



## damemary

I wouldn't swat a dog but......



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, SQM...though judging by KPG's response the opportunity to commune with nature is doing no good at all. A certain party is still leaving puddles on the floor and needs a swat with a rolled-up newspaper.


----------



## susanmos2000

damemary said:


> I wouldn't swat a dog but......


Tempting, isn't it? Where's Caesar Millan when you need him?


----------



## lovethelake

SQM said:


> Wouldn't you rather see your tax money go help others than to the military that kills people?


The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

damemary said:


> Nothing here for someone with a brain, much less a heart. Bye bye.


WOW. That is just what I was saying!

You, damemary, have made 74 posts on this thread alone since its inception (less than two weeks ago), and perhaps are the person to post most often on this thread. Yet, in all YOUR posts you didn't say one thing of value. (I didn't count your insults of others of any value).

Then, look! Although a repeated poster to this thread, you've made five posts since this one. So, I ask you, do you have either a brain or a heart? You really shouldn't insult yourself so.

Bye bye! :thumbup:

That was fun ...


----------



## damemary

Sure enough.



susanmos2000 said:


> Tempting, isn't it? Where's Caesar Millan when you need him?


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> WOW. That is just what I was saying!
> 
> You, damemary, have made 74 posts on this thread alone since its inception (less than two weeks ago), and perhaps are the person to post most often on this thread. Yet, in all YOUR posts you didn't say one thing of value. (I didn't count your insults of others of any value).
> 
> Then, look! Although a repeatedly poster to this thread, you've made five posts since this one. So, I ask you, do you have either a brain or a heart? You really shouldn't insult yourself so.
> 
> Bye bye! :thumbup:
> 
> That was fun ...


Back again, KPG? Don't you have some "tiny fruits" that need squeezing?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> But she is talking about her country and her concern . There are plenty of people listening to her. Also you and your nasty remarks back to her.


Thanks CB. You're 100% correct.

I've learned when talking about Canada, she isn't correct more often than not. So, I don't except to hear the truth or anything worthwhile from her on my country. Thankfully, I have many Canadian friends that give me the skinny on Canada, including several KPers. My peeps are knowledge about the USA too!


----------



## damemary

knitpresentgifts said:


> WOW. That is just what I was saying!
> 
> You, damemary, have made 74 posts on this thread alone since its inception (less than two weeks ago), and perhaps are the person to post most often on this thread. Yet, in all YOUR posts you didn't say one thing of value. (I didn't count your insults of others of any value).
> 
> Then, look! Although a repeatedly poster to this thread, you've made five posts since this one. So, I ask you, do you have either a brain or a heart? You really shouldn't insult yourself so.
> 
> Bye bye! :thumbup:
> 
> That was fun ...


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: What? Talking to yourself?

That felt better....but only briefly. I will endeavor, once again, not to engage you or your minions directly.


----------



## damemary

I wish to thank our international members for posting their opinions and questions. After all, foreign affairs is an important function of the Presidency. It is crucial to see ourselves as others see us. IMO


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


Joey, you are a good soul. I know God blesses you now and always.

You are so correct that the govt needs more revenue like it needs a dictator in chief. Last year the USA govt took in more revenue than ever before, and yet we have the highest number of those unable to participate in meaningful employment, more than 50% of Americans (illegal or not) on Food Stamps, and less than half of the population paying ANY taxes. Our schools, roads, bridges, infrastructure, border are all under siege and our military threadbare. Still the Dems are wanting to increase the budget by trillions. They never learn or understand $ and how the economy works (or doesn't). They just shout for more $ from the wealthy and no personal responsibility or initiative or family structure necessary. Any thinking and educated person knows how that story ends.


----------



## theyarnlady

lovethelake said:


> The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

lovethelake said:


> The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


The military is for our defense. They don't go on offense until the absolute need to defend is a clear and present danger. The military has rules of engagement and honors them. SQM ought to learn something about the military and serving before sounding so ignorant on the subject.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


You can't be the only judge of what "real need" means. We all need to take both approaches. Pay more taxes to fund the things we say we want and act through our personal sense of charity.


----------



## soloweygirl

joeysomma said:


> I don't care who has the most in federal funds. If some one is getting government benefits, such as food stamps, Medicaid, energy assistance, rent assistance, they will NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. PERIOD. This is enough of this, your minds are totally closed to reality.
> 
> I am referring to people being independent, not the government.


Joey, it's more like they can't face the reality. Best to just get off the merry-go-round as it's not worth your time. Those that take gov't benefits are DEPENDENT on the gov't. It's a fact.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: * Bravo! Well put. Perfect summary. I take back what I said about no one with brains or heart around here. Thank you MIB. *


You're very welcome.


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


If you checked the Federal Budget pie chart you would see the small amount of 9%that goes to welfare. 
Paying taxes is the price we pay to live in a free and civilized society. 
If you don't want to pay taxes, don't call a policeman, send a child to school, call a fireman, visit a National park, drive on any interstate freeway, or any road for all that matters, don't use a bridge, don't expect the military to protect you. Simple as that!


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thanks CB. You're 100% correct.
> 
> I've learned when talking about Canada, she isn't correct more often than not. So, I don't except to hear the truth or anything worthwhile from her on my country. Thankfully, I have many Canadian friends that give me the skinny on Canada, including several KPers. My peeps are knowledge about the USA too!


Shirley knows what's going on in this country and in her own country as well.
She is correct more often than not.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> Did it ever enter your mind that most people get off of these programs when their circumstances get better? So yes, eventually they will be independent. a lot of these people pay taxes that go into these programs. If they need it, they should accept the help.
> 
> I would say that our minds may be closed to YOUR warped reality.


Their circumstances will not improve until this administration's economic policy changes. Six years of such policies with very little improvement. Our economic policies are keeping the people dependent. With all the money thrown at the economy over the last 6 years, we should have turned the corner and be able to see some prosperity. Instead, the economy hoovers at a pathetic 2% growth. We could really use some of that "change" now.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> Their circumstances will not improve until this administration's economic policy changes. Six years of such policies with very little improvement. Our economic policies are keeping the people dependent. With all the money thrown at the economy over the last 6 years, we should have turned the corner and be able to see some prosperity. Instead, the economy hoovers at a pathetic 2% growth. We could really use some of that "change" now.


The circumstances won't change unless corporations start investing in this country again.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-economic-growth-is-so-slow-2013-7


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Any learned person have any idea who the Dems will run for the Presidential nomination?
> 
> I cannot see Hillary going anywhere.
> 
> Warren continus to say she'll not run - I'm betting the Dems are really pressing her to run though with the mess Clinton has gotten herself into again.


I heard that Hillary will announce some time this week. After all, she just leased a building in Brooklyn for her campaign HQ. Why do that if you aren't going to run?

Warren doesn't have the stuff needed to make a run. She's alienating any big business benefactors with all her trash talk about Wall Street and big business in general. I don't see her warming up to the local citizen either and think she is too far left for them. Who's left?

Malloy? Schumer? Schumer is going for Harry Reid's position, as he's been wanting that for quite some time, so don't see him running for president.

How about it Democrats? Who would you like to see run? What would they have to offer?


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> knipresentgifts
> poor Tree having to listen to you.


No, poor us having to listen to you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I heard that Hillary will announce some time this week. After all, she just leased a building in Brooklyn for her campaign HQ. Why do that if you aren't going to run?
> 
> Warren doesn't have the stuff needed to make a run. She's alienating any big business benefactors with all her trash talk about Wall Street and big business in general. I don't see her warming up to the local citizen either and think she is too far left for them. Who's left?
> 
> Malloy? Schumer? Schumer is going for Harry Reid's position, as he's been wanting that for quite some time, so don't see him running for president.
> 
> How about it Democrats? Who would you like to see run? What would they have to offer?


I know Hillary will run, but I don't see her going to the big house. Well, maybe, she will, after all. :-D

I agree, Warren is too left of <0 which sounds incredulous to Libs, but true.
Uncle Joe is a joke. Malloy and Schumer and Sanders impossible.

I don't see anyone else in the Dem party with half a chance.

Perhaps 2016 will be a very good year for the GOP?

Personally, I don't believe the Dems have anyone else. That's why we haven't heard anything from them after the Queen of Mean.


----------



## NJG

joeysomma said:


> Do you also remember when 0bama became President, he decided that able-bodied people no longer needed to work to get welfare. We had Governor Doyle, Democrat, at that time. Bye - bye working for benefits.


That is another lie that you continue to tell over and over. Maybe your problem is that you lie so much you can no longer tell the difference between reality and a lie. Remember it was 1983 when President Obama graduated from Columbia?


----------



## NJG

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good for you - you do talk out of your back side don't you? What an appropriate picture and so fitting to my description of those I dubbed "Liberal nut jobs" which you just accepted for your moniker.
> 
> At least you know how you are looked upon.


Don't you get tired of being that tree?


----------



## BrattyPatty

NJG said:


> Don't you get tired of being that tree?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## NJG

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.
> 
> No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.
> 
> Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


Well said.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> The circumstances won't change unless corporations start investing in this country again.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/why-economic-growth-is-so-slow-2013-7


That would apply to big business. What about the smaller businesses? The ones that are family owned, that are not on the stock market? The ones that provide a good portion of the jobs in the country? They are having their hands tied with too many laws, regulations and mandates that are making it difficult for them to grow and expand. They are also the ones that are closing their doors. When able, it's these small businesses that put back into the local economies.


----------



## cookiequeen

joeysomma said:


> Christians are to help "people" in real need. Not to pay taxes, so the government can waste most of the money, and then maybe help a few. If I have $100, where will it do the most good? Do I give it to a family, whose husband has a broken ankle, and is unable to work for 4 months (their only income). or to I pay taxes, and maybe $20 goes to this family. I gave the family the $100 on Easter.


You mean it isn't your duty as an American (and a good Christian) to follow the laws of this country and pay your taxes? Once again, I'm hearing the same old rationalization about giving to the poor doesn't mean that our government should be responsible for the poor. Where is the sense of CHRISTIAN spirit? Basically, people who have a moral sense, are aware that we as a society need to care for the least among us, and who understand doing things for the common good are not opposed to paying taxes that go to support needed social programs. I think attitudes of anti-government programs to help those less fortunate are UNCHRISTIAN. Remember WWJD?
End of homily


----------



## knitpresentgifts

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thanks CB. You're 100% correct.
> 
> I've learned when talking about Canada, she isn't correct more often than not. So, I don't except to hear the truth or anything worthwhile from her on my country. Thankfully, I have many Canadian friends that give me the skinny on Canada, including several KPers. My peeps are knowledge about the USA too!


Oops - should have been 'knowledgeable'


----------



## SQM

lovethelake said:


> The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


OOOOOO! Mommy! Lakes is being mean to me!

The US military is the most belligerent in the World. It is this country that needs a "plan" as well as the Middle East.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> That would apply to big business. What about the smaller businesses? The ones that are family owned, that are not on the stock market? The ones that provide a good portion of the jobs in the country? They are having their hands tied with too many laws, regulations and mandates that are making it difficult for them to grow and expand. They are also the ones that are closing their doors. When able, it's these small businesses that put back into the local economies.


Where I live, small businesses are thriving, but they pay squat.
It's the employees of these businesses that cannot put anything back in the economy. 
Of course it is applied to big business. Big business is the cause of our economic woes.


----------



## cookiequeen

P


MaidInBedlam said:


> I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.
> 
> No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.
> 
> Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oops - should have been 'knowledgeable'


Not to worry, we know that you aren't.


----------



## BrattyPatty

SQM said:


> OOOOOO! Mommy! Lakes is being mean to me!
> 
> The US military is the most belligerent in the World. It is this country that needs a "plan" as well as the Middle East.


Awh, don't cry sweetie, she's mean to everybody who disagrees with her.
Honestly, have you ever seen her being nice?


----------



## NJG

BrattyPatty said:


> The first recipient of this award on KP is:
> KPG!


A well earned award, I must say.


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> The military is for our defense. They don't go on offense until the absolute need to defend is a clear and present danger. The military has rules of engagement and honors them. SQM ought to learn something about the military and serving before sounding so ignorant on the subject.


And KGB should realize that since Viet Nam, this country has caused, fought and LOST how many wars? And don't forget the meddling in elections world-wide when the candidate and winner is not so hospitable to Capitalism. Sadly I have learned about the military and during the 20th century the lesson is bitter. (I will not even discuss the military in terms of land grabbing from Mexico and the slaughtering of Indians. That was too long ago.)


----------



## cookiequeen

SQM said:


> And KGB should realize that since Viet Nam, this country has caused, fought and LOST how many wars? And don't forget the meddling in elections world-wide when the candidate and winner is not so hospitable to Capitalism. Sadly I have learned about the military and during the 20th century the lesson is bitter. (I will not even discuss the military in terms of land grabbing from Mexico and the slaughtering of Indians. That was too long ago.)


I guess KPG forgot the war in Iraq started by the U.S. That was to protect against a clear and present danger????


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> I don't care who has the most in federal funds. If some one is getting government benefits, such as food stamps, Medicaid, energy assistance, rent assistance, they will NEVER BE INDEPENDENT. PERIOD. This is enough of this, your minds are totally closed to reality.
> 
> I am referring to people being independent, not the government.


joeysomma
actually all you are doing is showing your hatred for anyone in need like seniors who earned practically nothing when they worked and a hell of a lot harder than you do now, people of ill health and most of all children. Yes, you are showing your non-existing morals and compassion.


----------



## BrattyPatty

cookiequeen said:


> I guess KPG forgot the war in Iraq started by the U.S. That was to protect against a clear and present danger????


"Clear and Present Danger" a Tom Clancy novel.
You must be referring to the WMD's that were never found. A country destroyed while trying to take out Saddam Hussein.
Funny how we took out Gadaffi without destroying Libya in the process.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> The term is 'nit picking' FYI
> 
> I heard on the morning news that 52% of all obamacare subsidy receivers owe on average over $500 in taxes, according to H&R Block. I believe that 30% get money back; but since a dollar amount wasn't mentioned, I doubt that it is very much. How is that possible? We were all promised that we would be saving thousands of dollars because of obamacare. Well tell that to the lower income people that received subsidies (aka other people's tax money) and have to find over $500 to repay the government.


lovethelake,
due to Obamacare our premium increased at a much lower rate than previously and our coverage increased by a wide margin AND we can remain with all of our Physicians.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> No kidding?
> 
> I'd rather ignore you and your Lib nutty friends and mostly do.
> 
> "Hi" beautiful, living and giving trees ....


knitpresentgifts
ignoring us is something you will NEVER be able to do. You are hooked to us with Velcro.


----------



## Huckleberry

theyarnlady said:


> Joey I was just thinking, do you remember when when Thomson was Governor? He put in program of right to work in place. Those who did not really need welfare and could work. They were required to get a job. If they didn't their benefits where taken away. If they did find a job, they would only receive the amount that they did not get from the job they had. Cost went down and save money for what it was meant for. That was state control . It work just fine.
> As to military their budget has been cut. So no one can complain about that. Welfare up, military down.


theyarnlady
hope your educational system has changed since you were in school, if not, PLEASE work for change.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> OK--here's a good one.


susanmos2000
Love it.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts wrote:
No kidding?

I'd rather ignore you and your Lib nutty friends and mostly do.

"Hi" beautiful, living and giving trees ....

Huckleberry wrote:
knitpresentgifts
ignoring us is something you will NEVER be able to do. You are hooked to us with Velcro.

Bratty wrote:
My suspicions have been confirmed. She's talking to trees now. Call the men in the little white coats!


----------



## SQM

soloweygirl said:


> That would apply to big business. What about the smaller businesses? The ones that are family owned, that are not on the stock market? The ones that provide a good portion of the jobs in the country? They are having their hands tied with too many laws, regulations and mandates that are making it difficult for them to grow and expand. They are also the ones that are closing their doors. When able, it's these small businesses that put back into the local economies.


Actually from my experience, it is the greedy landlords raising rents to impossible levels that are forcing Mom & Pop out of business.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know Hillary will run, but I don't see her going to the big house. Well, maybe, she will, after all. :-D
> 
> I agree, Warren is too left of <0 which sounds incredulous to Libs, but true.
> Uncle Joe is a joke. Malloy and Schumer and Sanders impossible.
> 
> I don't see anyone else in the Dem party with half a chance.
> 
> Perhaps 2016 will be a very good year for the GOP?
> 
> Personally, I don't believe the Dems have anyone else. That's why we haven't heard anything from them after the Queen of Mean.


Queen of Mean? Can't you come up with something original?
Leona Helmsey was already given that title. She was no Democrat either.


----------



## Huckleberry

lovethelake said:


> The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


lovethelake
unfortunately our military has been used and abused for unsavory gain. There is nothing voluntary about having 3-7 
stints in Iraq and Afghanistan, is there. Our dear Soldiers have given their Lives and Limbs for what? Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's Oil.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> WOW. That is just what I was saying!
> 
> You, damemary, have made 74 posts on this thread alone since its inception (less than two weeks ago), and perhaps are the person to post most often on this thread. Yet, in all YOUR posts you didn't say one thing of value. (I didn't count your insults of others of any value).
> 
> Then, look! Although a repeated poster to this thread, you've made five posts since this one. So, I ask you, do you have either a brain or a heart? You really shouldn't insult yourself so.
> 
> Bye bye! :thumbup:
> 
> That was fun ...


knitpresentgift
still keeping score Coach? How boring your Life is. So sorry.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> The military is for our defense. They don't go on offense until the absolute need to defend is a clear and present danger. The military has rules of engagement and honors them. SQM ought to learn something about the military and serving before sounding so ignorant on the subject.


knitpresentgifts
please, learn something about what our military has been doing for more than a decade or keep it zipped.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> If you checked the Federal Budget pie chart you would see the small amount of 9%that goes to welfare.
> Paying taxes is the price we pay to live in a free and civilized society.
> If you don't want to pay taxes, don't call a policeman, send a child to school, call a fireman, visit a National park, drive on any interstate freeway, or any road for all that matters, don't use a bridge, don't expect the military to protect you. Simple as that!


Bratty Patty
looking forward to less traffic and less congestions in our Parks. If these Nuts get off the roads, the pavement should last longer as well.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oops - should have been 'knowledgeable'


knitpresentgifts
you are just jealous that Designer knows so much about her and our Country and you know diddlysquat.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> ignoring us is something you will NEVER be able to do. You are hooked to us with Velcro.


She is the op of this thread.


----------



## Huckleberry

SQM said:


> Actually from my experience, it is the greedy landlords raising rents to impossible levels that are forcing Mom & Pop out of business.


SQM
the increase in Rent is the reason for many small businesses moving west of some areas here. There is a whole new City being established with no big Malls, just small strip Malls with affordable Rent and long lease terms with no rent increase. The big Malls are going by the wayside. Rent too high, security lacking and too many rules. I have avoided big Malls for many years and support all small businesses as much as possible. It is a pleasure having lots of Mom & Pop Stores around to take care of our needs. We are lucky to have that pleasure.


----------



## SQM

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> the increase in Rent is the reason for many small businesses moving west of some areas here. There is a whole new City being established with no big Malls, just small strip Malls with affordable Rent and long lease terms with no rent increase. The big Malls are going by the wayside. Rent too high, security lacking and too many rules. I have avoided big Malls for many years and support all small businesses as much as possible. It is a pleasure having lots of Mom & Pop Stores around to take care of our needs. We are lucky to have that pleasure.


My neighborhood has become a ghost town because of impossible rents and this applies to many areas in Manhattan. Depressing.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> Where I live, small businesses are thriving, but they pay squat.
> It's the employees of these businesses that cannot put anything back in the economy.
> Of course it is applied to big business. Big business is the cause of our economic woes.


tsk, tsk, that's the same thing you say about big business. They are thriving but pay their workers squat. Only the CEOs are making the mega money off the backs of their workers. Same old, same old.

If these small businesses are thriving, then why aren't they putting it back into the economy and/or expanding their business? It goes right back to the economic policies of this administration and the failure that they are.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> "Clear and Present Danger" a Tom Clancy novel.
> You must be referring to the WMD's that were never found. A country destroyed while trying to take out Saddam Hussein.
> Funny how we took out Gadaffi without destroying Libya in the process.


Yet ISIS was able to find pockets of buried WMD's, when they overtook areas of Iraq.


----------



## soloweygirl

SQM said:


> Actually from my experience, it is the greedy landlords raising rents to impossible levels that are forcing Mom & Pop out of business.


Makes one wonder why anyone would want to live in NYC or any other huge city.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Yet ISIS was able to find pockets of buried WMD's, when they overtook areas of Iraq.


soloweygirl
they did? Are you in touch with ISIS? They are telling you stuff? Interesting. VERY interesting.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Makes one wonder why anyone would want to live in NYC or any other huge city.


soloweygirl
please, remain where you are. We City Slickers like to keep a certain segment of the population to a minimum. We intellectuals can be snobby and it would be tough for you to exist there and be happy. We are far too open minded for your taste and much too diverse and far out. You could never compete with any of us. We love to visit small Towns just to see how they function and are always happy to return to our very interesting lives in the BIG Cities. We are not much into collecting Cars perched on Concrete Blocks turning into collections or Barns missing boards so that the Wind can play a song throughout it. Used to like the small Towns with lots of Farmers tending their Fields but since
big money has destroyed them, they no longer call us to move there. Just as greed has destroyed Detroit, it also has destroyed our Countryside and quaint Farms with lovely People looking after them. Greed is the root of all evil.


----------



## Gerslay

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.
> 
> No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.
> 
> Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


WHERES THE NEAREST ATHEIST ORPHANAGE?

Sorry, Maid, but your statement about 'only Christians' is so far off base that you must be corrected.

A comprehensive study by Harvard University professor Robert Putnam found that religious people are more charitable than their irreligious counterparts. The study revealed that forty percent of worship service attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly as opposed to 15% of Americans who never attend services. Moreover, religious individuals are more likely than non-religious individuals to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%).

Arthur C. Brooks wrote in Policy Review regarding data collected in the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS) (data collected by in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research):

_The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions._

ABC News reported:
_...the single biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable is their religious participation. Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money, four times as much and their giving goes beyond their own religious organization:

"Actually, the truth is that they're giving to more than their churches. The religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities."_

Apology accepted!


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is the op of this thread.


Yes, and she abandoned it when she was at the losing end of a debate!


----------



## BrattyPatty

Poodlai said:


> Well I think Christians certainly like to boast or claim they're charitable, and others are too busy actually BEING charitable to bother. So I do wonder how that effects the 'studies' that occur.


It depends on what kind of Christian you are talking about. We have true Christians and those who dare to use Christianity for political gain which I believe most of those RWN's commenting here do.


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgift
> still keeping score Coach? How boring your Life is. So sorry.


KPG----okay for you to count and read all our posts but not okay if the shoe is on the other foot? figures.


----------



## Designer1234

.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> tsk, tsk, that's the same thing you say about big business. They are thriving but pay their workers squat. Only the CEOs are making the mega money off the backs of their workers. Same old, same old.
> 
> If these small businesses are thriving, then why aren't they putting it back into the economy and/or expanding their business? It goes right back to the economic policies of this administration and the failure that they are.


You can't blame the bad economy on this administration. It was a shambles and named the Great Recession when President Obama took office. It is improving, just not fast enough for some, but it has improved.
How good do you think things will be when the idiot Republicans in the Houses march us off to war in the ME again? Who's going to pay for that? I guarantee you it won't be the big corporations. It will kill small businesses and kill the economy.
Keep backing Netenyahu.........

Maybe where you live small businesses aren't putting it back into the economy, but here they do every time they have to make an order, or order baseball and hockey jerseys for the teams that they sponsor.
The sponsored teams in turn support the business with their business.


----------



## sumpleby

If the Republicans want to keep dragging us into wars they'll have to reinstate the draft.

Yeah...that'll go over well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Gerslay said:


> WHERES THE NEAREST ATHEIST ORPHANAGE?
> 
> Sorry, Maid, but your statement about 'only Christians' is so far off base that you must be corrected.
> 
> A comprehensive study by Harvard University professor Robert Putnam found that religious people are more charitable than their irreligious counterparts. The study revealed that forty percent of worship service attending Americans volunteer regularly to help the poor and elderly as opposed to 15% of Americans who never attend services. Moreover, religious individuals are more likely than non-religious individuals to volunteer for school and youth programs (36% vs. 15%), a neighborhood or civic group (26% vs. 13%), and for health care (21% vs. 13%).
> 
> Arthur C. Brooks wrote in Policy Review regarding data collected in the Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS) (data collected by in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research):
> 
> _The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions._
> 
> ABC News reported:
> _...the single biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable is their religious participation. Religious people are more likely to give to charity, and when they give, they give more money, four times as much and their giving goes beyond their own religious organization:
> 
> "Actually, the truth is that they're giving to more than their churches. The religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities."_
> 
> Apology accepted!


 :thumbup: I'm willing to bet the higher level of giving and the higher amount given has to do with the tenets of the Judeo/Christian belief systems that founded our country.

i.e. The suggestion to give tithes and offerings and of our talents, gifts and blessings all which come from God.

I know those Biblical passages have great meaning in my life.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, and she abandoned it when she was at the losing end of a debate!


I've been here all along and never lost any argument to the Lib fools posting here including you. Then too, the Libs on KP don't know how to debate and argue the facts, only insults, lie and biased opinions and personal attacks. The Libs run when challenged or faced with facts.

I've posted again and again that I have no interest nor the time to argue with fools and those who only post to insult others. I was also away for several days recently and not posting while attending to the death of a very dear friend not that it is any of your business nor do I answer to you.

Go check and see how many thousands of posts you and your Lib buds write to or about me that I ignore. Get used to it.

Someday you'll understand what you read. Well, one can only hope.


----------



## jmf6406

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I'm willing to bet the higher level of giving and the higher amount given has to do with the tenets of the Judeo/Christian belief systems that founded our country.
> 
> i.e. The suggestion to give tithes and offerings and of our talents, gifts and blessings all which come from God.
> 
> I know those Biblical passages have great meaning in my life.


My understanding is most of the Founding Fathers were Deists.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

jmf6406 said:


> My understanding is most of the Founding Fathers were Deists.


I didn't mention anything but the tenets on which our country was founded.

Whether a FF was a Jew, Christian, Deist or atheists or an agnostic doesn't matter, the country was founded on Judeo/Christians beliefs.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> Yet ISIS was able to find pockets of buried WMD's, when they overtook areas of Iraq.


Oh, so now you believe Isis? Boy, you are gullible.


----------



## damemary

MaidInBedlam said:


> You can't be the only judge of what "real need" means. We all need to take both approaches. Pay more taxes to fund the things we say we want and act through our personal sense of charity.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

BrattyPatty said:


> If you checked the Federal Budget pie chart you would see the small amount of 9%that goes to welfare.
> Paying taxes is the price we pay to live in a free and civilized society.
> If you don't want to pay taxes, don't call a policeman, send a child to school, call a fireman, visit a National park, drive on any interstate freeway, or any road for all that matters, don't use a bridge, don't expect the military to protect you. Simple as that!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

That's the truth. Edith Anne.



BrattyPatty said:


> The circumstances won't change unless corporations start investing in this country again.
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/why-economic-growth-is-so-slow-2013-7


----------



## damemary

<<<whispering....Clever retort. NOT>>>



soloweygirl said:


> No, poor us having to listen to you.


----------



## damemary

I never get tired of imagining it.



NJG said:


> Don't you get tired of being that tree?


----------



## damemary

cookiequeen said:


> You mean it isn't your duty as an American (and a good Christian) to follow the laws of this country and pay your taxes? Once again, I'm hearing the same old rationalization about giving to the poor doesn't mean that our government should be responsible for the poor. Where is the sense of CHRISTIAN spirit? Basically, people who have a moral sense, are aware that we as a society need to care for the least among us, and who understand doing things for the common good are not opposed to paying taxes that go to support needed social programs. I think attitudes of anti-government programs to help those less fortunate are UNCHRISTIAN. Remember WWJD?
> End of homily


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

SQM said:


> OOOOOO! Mommy! Lakes is being mean to me!
> 
> The US military is the most belligerent in the World. It is this country that needs a "plan" as well as the Middle East.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to worry, we know that you aren't.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

SQM said:


> And KGB should realize that since Viet Nam, this country has caused, fought and LOST how many wars? And don't forget the meddling in elections world-wide when the candidate and winner is not so hospitable to Capitalism. Sadly I have learned about the military and during the 20th century the lesson is bitter. (I will not even discuss the military in terms of land grabbing from Mexico and the slaughtering of Indians. That was too long ago.)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary

Don't forget those odious Weapons of Mass Destruction.



cookiequeen said:


> I guess KPG forgot the war in Iraq started by the U.S. That was to protect against a clear and present danger????


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

Is there a point to your comment or just same old, same old?



Country Bumpkins said:


> She is the op of this thread.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've been here all along and never lost any argument to the Lib fools posting here including you. Then too, the Libs on KP don't know how to debate and argue the facts, only insults, lie and biased opinions and personal attacks. The Libs run when challenged or faced with facts.
> 
> I've posted again and again that I have no interest nor the time to argue with fools and those who only post to insult others. I was also away for several days recently and not posting while attending to the death of a very dear friend not that it is any of your business nor do I answer to you.
> 
> Go check and see how many thousands of posts you and your Lib buds write to or about me that I ignore. Get used to it.
> 
> Someday you'll understand what you read. Well, one can only hope.


If you ignore them, how do you know how many there are? You have counted them. What well balanced person does this???
As for your description of "Libs", you have described yourself word for word. How is your lawyer doing?
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
As for the rest of your blather, I don't give a flying *&^% as to where you were or why you were gone.


----------



## damemary

Now that's a salient point. Thanks Patty.



BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, and she abandoned it when she was at the losing end of a debate!


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I'm willing to bet the higher level of giving and the higher amount given has to do with the tenets of the Judeo/Christian belief systems that founded our country.
> 
> i.e. The suggestion to give tithes and offerings and of our talents, gifts and blessings all which come from God.
> 
> I know those Biblical passages have great meaning in my life.


knitpresentgifts
If they have such great meaning, why don't you live by them? Oh, I forgot, you are rather selective in your applications.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I'm willing to bet the higher level of giving and the higher amount given has to do with the tenets of the Judeo/Christian belief systems that founded our country.
> 
> i.e. The suggestion to give tithes and offerings and of our talents, gifts and blessings all which come from God.
> 
> I know those Biblical passages have great meaning in my life.


Funny, you never portray that part of yourself here.


----------



## damemary

I wonder how they'll provide deferments. Their families won't be drafted....just like last time.



sumpleby said:


> If the Republicans want to keep dragging us into wars they'll have to reinstate the draft.
> 
> Yeah...that'll go over well.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

damemary said:


> Is there a point to your comment or just same old, same old?


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've been here all along and never lost any argument to the Lib fools posting here including you. Then too, the Libs on KP don't know how to debate and argue the facts, only insults, lie and biased opinions and personal attacks. The Libs run when challenged or faced with facts.
> 
> I've posted again and again that I have no interest nor the time to argue with fools and those who only post to insult others. I was also away for several days recently and not posting while attending to the death of a very dear friend not that it is any of your business nor do I answer to you.
> 
> Go check and see how many thousands of posts you and your Lib buds write to or about me that I ignore. Get used to it.
> 
> Someday you'll understand what you read. Well, one can only hope.


knitpresentgifts
"....and never lost an argument", keep believing, that is all you have. Winning is not on your side. And when it gets rough, you bow out announcing it for all to see only to see you come back in a hurry and stirring up some more trouble. You keep stressing that you ignore us. SAY WHAT? You thirst for attention and can't stand it when you are being out of the loop.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Poodlai said:


> Well I think Christians certainly like to boast or claim they're charitable, and others are too busy actually BEING charitable to bother. So I do wonder how that effects the 'studies' that occur.


Why did you change your Id?


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why did you change your Id?


 Is there a rule on KP that one has to keep the same user ID?


----------



## damemary

Why don't you 'enlighten' all of us instead of silly rumors?



Country Bumpkins said:


> Why did you change your Id?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

damemary said:


> Why don't you 'enlighten' all of us instead of silly rumors?


There is no light bright enough for that.
Well there is ONe but you don't know Him.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> There is no light bright enough for that.
> Well there is ONe but you don't know Him.


Here we go again. Is this going to kick off a bunch of righteous preaching?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

BrattyPatty said:


> Here we go again. Is this going to kick off a bunch of righteous preaching?


Nah it would be wasted. :shock: Maybe you can hear it from a good Christian .


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nah it would be wasted. :shock: Maybe you can hear it from a good Christian .


I already do, CB


----------



## Country Bumpkins

BrattyPatty said:


> I already do, CB


I am glad you know one.


----------



## cookiequeen

joeysomma said:


> You have only heard (read) the liberal revisionist's history. Go back and read what the founding fathers actually believed, and wrote about. Start with the Federalist Papers. Then the diaries and letters of the Founding Fathers. It will open your mind.
> 
> Or any school history book written before 1900 or even 1950.


Please! The liberal revisionist's history? Do you realize what a right-wing, fringe, radical, nutsy phrase that is? Are you so arrogant to believe that you are more equipped than learned historians to read and study volumes of material to understand the history of our country? Try a little humility.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am glad you know one.


I know many ;-)


----------



## BrattyPatty

cookiequeen said:


> Please! The liberal revisionist's history? Do you realize what a right-wing, fringe, radical, nutsy phrase that is? Are you so arrogant to believe that you are more equipped than learned historians to read and study volumes of material to understand the history of our country? Try a little humility.


It's not in her 'constitution,' cookie


----------



## cookiequeen

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am glad you know one.


Did you ever think she might be one? Nobody here needs to reveal what s/he believes, does she?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

BrattyPatty said:


> I know many ;-)


How do you know if they are good or bad?


----------



## cookiequeen

BrattyPatty said:


> If you ignore them, how do you know how many there are? You have counted them. What well balanced person does this???
> As for your description of "Libs", you have described yourself word for word. How is your lawyer doing?
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> As for the rest of your blather, I don't give a flying *&^% as to where you were or why you were gone.


She wouldn't recognize a fact if it hit her between the eyes.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

cookiequeen said:


> Did you ever think she might be one? Nobody here needs to reveal what s/he believes, does she?


No. I have been made fun of my faith and I was wondering about who are good and bad Christian. I was being sarcastic . Seems I am one of the bad ones.


----------



## cookiequeen

Country Bumpkins said:


> No. I have been made fun of my faith and I was wondering about who are good and bad Christian. I was being sarcastic . Seems I am one of the bad ones.


Nobody's perfect, right?


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> No. I have been made fun of my faith and I was wondering about who are good and bad Christian. I was being sarcastic . Seems I am one of the bad ones.


I would change that to genuine and fake ones. I don't think that you are a bad Christian. Sometimes you just get carried away.


----------



## Gerslay

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I'm willing to bet the higher level of giving and the higher amount given has to do with the tenets of the Judeo/Christian belief systems that founded our country.
> 
> i.e. The suggestion to give tithes and offerings and of our talents, gifts and blessings all which come from God.
> 
> I know those Biblical passages have great meaning in my life.


...and in my life as well, KPG! ♥


----------



## BrattyPatty

cookiequeen said:


> Nobody's perfect, right?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen

Gerslay said:


> ...and in my life as well, KPG! ♥


So why do you have to come on a forum and announce that? Don't you think there are tons of people who try to live a good life? What's the big deal? Are you above the rest of us? That's how it sounds when you have to make a point of it. Just my opinion.


----------



## SQM

Gerslay said:


> ...and in my life as well, KPG! ♥


"The Complete Book of Nonsense" by Edward Lear has great meaning in my life currently.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

BrattyPatty said:


> If you ignore them, how do you know how many there are? You have counted them. What well balanced person does this???
> As for your description of "Libs", you have described yourself word for word. How is your lawyer doing?
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> As for the rest of your blather, I don't give a flying *&^% as to where you were or why you were gone.


What a complete fool you are. Are you capable at looking at an avatar and simply calculating how many posts you ignore knowing which posters you ignore? I can, so sorry you cannot but the KP Libs are not known for being very good at ignoring those they hate nor at numbers and figures and calculations. You've proven same many times over.

Which lawyer? I have six.

If you didn't give a flying fig where I was why did you give a lie on my behalf for the reason I 'abandoned my thread' according to you. Don't answer anything as I won't respond nor care.

Got brains?


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why did you change your Id?


Cpuntry Bumpkin
MOYDB


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> There is no light bright enough for that.
> Well there is ONe but you don't know Him.


She and most of her friends have denied Him ten times more than Peter ever did.


----------



## Huckleberry

cookiequeen said:


> Please! The liberal revisionist's history? Do you realize what a right-wing, fringe, radical, nutsy phrase that is? Are you so arrogant to believe that you are more equipped than learned historians to read and study volumes of material to understand the history of our country? Try a little humility.


cookiequeen
humility? Her? Honestly? Hogwash.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am glad you know one.


Me too but whoever they are didn't get through to her.

Such a shame ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> How do you know if they are good or bad?


Hey, I'd like to know how she knows so much about me. She even knows that I count posts - imagine that!

In fact, they all claim to know everything about me, what I think, do, have done, do to others, look like, etc., and I haven't met a single one of the haters. Thanks be to God.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> She and most of her friends have denied Him ten times more than Peter ever did.


knitpresentgifts
really? What do you know. Diddlysquat. Try to read: "Republicans can't be Christians". That should occupy you for a few minutes and give you something to think about.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> She and most of her friends have denied Him ten times more than Peter ever did.


Because you were there, right?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Gerslay said:


> ...and in my life as well, KPG! ♥


Hi Gerslay! I'm about out of here - too much stupidity for me.

Not meaning you or CB though - y'all know who I'm talking about.

Praise God from whom all blessings flow!


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, I'd like to know how she knows so much about me. She even knows that I count posts - imagine that!
> 
> In fact, they all claim to know everything about me, what I think, do, have done, do to others, look like, etc., and I haven't met a single one of the haters. Thanks be to God.


knitpresentgifts
A little religious teaching here: ".......don't use my name in vain". As to knowing you, yes we know you well, you have had such a need to reveal all about you in hopes that it elevates you. It may do that among your peers, not so among others.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> really? What do you know. Diddlysquat. Try to read: "Republicans can't be Christians". That should occupy you for a few minutes and give you something to think about.


Huck, 
Didn't you know that the Anti Christ is parading himself around as a new born Christian with republican ethics and morals?They really don't add up to much at all ;-)


----------



## knitpresentgifts

BrattyPatty said:


> Because you were there, right?


Because unlike you I know the Bible and have read *your* denials of Jesus and my Lord, my God and your trashing and bashing of Christians and the Bible in years past when I use to read your ignorant posts.

Do not speak to me again and expect a response.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, I'd like to know how she knows so much about me. She even knows that I count posts - imagine that!
> 
> In fact, they all claim to know everything about me, what I think, do, have done, do to others, look like, etc., and I haven't met a single one of the haters. Thanks be to God.


Hey, Sybil, you wrote that there were thousands or did your other personality forget that?


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Because unlike you I know the Bible, and have read your denials in past years.
> 
> Do not speak to me again and except a response.


I have never denied my faith. Is it time for your meds again, Sybil?

This is the perfect example of bad and fake Christians, CB. She lies and lies in the name of Christ. It makes me sick.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck,
> Didn't you know that the Anti Christ is parading himself around as a new born Christian with republican ethics and morals?They really don't add up to much at all ;-)


Bratty Patty
I am learning, I am learning.........


----------



## SQM

BrattyPatty said:


> I have never denied my faith. Is it time for your meds again, Sybil?
> 
> This is the perfect example of bad and fake Christians, CB. She lies and lies in the name of Christ. It makes me sick.


In real virtual life, Bumps is a lovely lady. She is my favorite on the Other Side and she does not preach all the time. She is versatile.


----------



## BrattyPatty

SQM said:


> In real virtual life, Bumps is a lovely lady. She is my favorite on the Other Side and she does not preach all the time. She is versatile.


The post was referring to KPG. Clean your glasses, SQ.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

SQM said:


> In real virtual life, Bumps is a lovely lady. She is my favorite on the Other Side and she does not preach all the time. She is versatile.


Thanks. SQM :-D


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Gerslay! I'm about out of here - too much stupidity for me.
> 
> Not meaning you or CB though - y'all know who I'm talking about.
> 
> Praise God from whom all blessings flow!


knitpresentgifts
"..... don't use my name in vain". You need to learn what is meant by that.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, I'd like to know how she knows so much about me. She even knows that I count posts - imagine that!
> 
> In fact, they all claim to know everything about me, what I think, do, have done, do to others, look like, etc., and I haven't met a single one of the haters. Thanks be to God.


knitpresentgifts
"....do not use my name in vain." For Heaven's sake, let someone explain to you what it means.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> She and most of her friends have denied Him ten times more than Peter ever did.


knitpresentgifts
get out of your religious Garb, it does not look good on you.


----------



## SQM

BrattyPatty said:


> The post was directed at KPG. Clean your glasses, SQ.


Oh. My faux pas. She is not my favorite on The Other Side.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> get out of your religious Garb, it does not look good on you.


She better! If she doesn't, when and if she arrives at the Pearly Gates St. Finger is going to shake his p***r at her!


----------



## BrattyPatty

SQM said:


> Oh. My faux pas. She is not my favorite on The Other Side.


Just didn't want you to think that I was picking on CB.


----------



## SQM

BrattyPatty said:


> Just didn't want you to think that I was picking on CB.


Thanks. Bumps is very ecumenical and is not the bit closed mind about non-Christians. She is a sweet and kind person.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> She better! If she doesn't, when and if she arrives at the Pearly Gates St. Finger is going to shake his p***r at her!


Bratty Patty
I just dribbled in my Pants. Could not reach the Bowl in time. THANK YOU, what a laugh that started. VERY funny.


----------



## mzmom1

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


Apparently that doesn't matter any more, judging from what we have now. A Canadian would be a distinct improvement.


----------



## mzmom1

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> unfortunately our military has been used and abused for unsavory gain. There is nothing voluntary about having 3-7
> stints in Iraq and Afghanistan, is there. Our dear Soldiers have given their Lives and Limbs for what? Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's Oil.


Murphy (Walmart) and BP don't get their oil from either the Middle East or Venezuela--those places make no qualms about wanting to destroy the United States.


----------



## Designer1234

Country Bumpkins said:


> But she is talking about her country and her concern . There are plenty of people listening to her. Also you and your nasty remarks back to her.


You are correct CB it is your country but not just yours and KPG's concern. I have a vested interest as do all Canadians in what is happening down there. It is also a public forum.

However, I will respect your opinion until she insults us all again.


----------



## Huckleberry

mzmom1 said:


> Apparently that doesn't matter any more, judging from what we have now. A Canadian would be a distinct improvement.


mzmom
Sorry, but it does and will for some time to come. Changing that would be close to impossible. As to what we have now, I am of the majority who approves.


----------



## Huckleberry

mzmom1 said:


> Murphy (Walmart) and BP don't get their oil from either the Middle East or Venezuela--those places make no qualms about wanting to destroy the United States.


mzmom
and if we keep from trying diplomacy around the globe, more and more Nations want to go after us. You are not even supporting my country's people's wishes but you want foreigners to like us? Hm. The majority has spoken and that should count. I have not always voted for the Man in the White House but ALWAYS supported him as much as possible until Nixon messed up royally and Bush send our boys into harms way for ill gains. Wonder which Country you would choose to live in right now rather than this one, the USA. You sound like one of the Birther Crowd.


----------



## Huckleberry

Designer1234 said:


> You are correct CB it is your country but not just yours and KPG's concern. I have a vested interest as do all Canadians in what is happening down there. It is also a public forum.
> 
> However, I will respect your opinion until she insults us all again.


Designer1234
if anyone thinks that we are still the one and only Power in the World that counts, think again. We are part of a global community and need to learn - and quickly - how to exist in it. Big Fish are in the wings, to replace us.


----------



## NJG

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> A little religious teaching here: ".......don't use my name in vain". As to knowing you, yes we know you well, you have had such a need to reveal all about you in hopes that it elevates you. It may do that among your peers, not so among others.


We have talked about her kind before, haven't we Huck? Those that have to constantly talk about themselves and pat themselves on the back and talk about how wonderful they think they themselves are.


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> OK--here's a good one.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think, given the fact that we're social animals with a big urge to keep our groups in good shape, we must remember we can't be completely independent. That's not part of our nature. I can't even understand why we aren't as charitable as we ought to be. *We are interdependent. We take care of our own as much as we can.* When we can't do that or help those we can easily see are in need, we turn to social welfare.
> 
> No, we don't have to make sure everyone has a diamond ring on every finger. We, however, must make sure everyone has a roof over their heads, enough to eat, basic medical care, etc. We don't even have to be Christians to do this. We only need two eyes and a charitable heart. It's so easy to see that here are quite a few people who seem to have neither. This is a tragedy, and one we can change.
> 
> Speaking only about Christians, I'm tired of hearing from people like Joey who so easily forget Christ's teachings and replace heartfelt charity with the idea that people in need are too lazy, etc., to help themselves. *It's about time the so-called Christians get off their pews and help the needy, even if it means paying higher taxes.*


 :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, SQM...though judging by KPG's response the opportunity to commune with nature is doing no good at all. A certain party is still leaving puddles on the floor and needs a swat with a rolled-up newspaper.


No! Much more than that! A kick in the %$^* with a giant, steel-toe boot!


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> So true. Forced intimacy has its disadvantages...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

lovethelake said:


> The military does not kill people because they are bored. They are voluntarily putting their lives on the line to protect us and our country. Many have died protecting your right to say stupid and callus comments.


No, the military do not kill people due to boredom, they torture people instead:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/30/world/meast/iraq-prison-abuse-scandal-fast-facts/


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> The military is for our defense. They don't go on offense until the absolute need to defend is a clear and present danger. The military has rules of engagement and honors them. SQM ought to learn something about the military and serving before sounding so ignorant on the subject.


But the military think torture is okay apparently.


----------



## Wombatnomore

soloweygirl said:


> Yet ISIS was able to find pockets of buried WMD's, when they overtook areas of Iraq.


Haven't heard that one. In your dreams maybe?


----------



## Wombatnomore

SQM said:


> "The Complete Book of Nonsense" by Edward Lear has great meaning in my life currently.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000

Wombatnomore said:


> No! Much more than that! A kick in the %$^* with a giant, steel-toe boot!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

Poodlai said:


> Of the criminal variety no doubt
> 
> They must be pretty good as they gotcha regular internet access ---save for the "time off for funerals".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary

cookiequeen said:


> Nobody's perfect, right?


Many good people recognize the good and bad in themselves. They try to be humble; to be charitable to their fellow man, and it's a challenge worth taking.


----------



## lovethelake

Poodlai said:


> I'm proud that those Christian values live on so particularly strongly in Liberalism. They fight the greed and hate system that live so strongly in today's conservatism.


What is the hate system? Why do libs focus so much on hate? I am a Conservative and I don't hate; disagree, disapprove, reject......some of the liberal agenda but I don't hate. In my opinion, when you spread such an unsubstantiated lie you are the one that 'hates' people that don't agree with you. I believe that libs are confused because they think that if someone does not agree with them that they hate them. Such a fallacy and such a sad way to live.


----------



## Gerslay

http://www.christianpost.com/news/is-liberal-christianity-worth-saving-79643/

*Is Liberal Christianity Worth Saving?*

_"Liberal Christianity is dying on the vine. Mainline denominations are taking big hits across the board. According to The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, among Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and Episcopalians, more adults are leaving the church than entering it. Methodists, Presbyterians, and Anglicans are retaining less than half of their children. And in these denominations, no one is sitting in the pews! Gallup reported in 2005 that weekly and near-weekly church attendees made up less than 45% of self-identifying Methodists, Presbyterians, and Lutherans, with Episcopalians at a dismal 32%. And the numbers aren't getting any better._

But what, exactly, is liberal Christianity? Over the past several decades, liberalism has primarily defined itself by what it is not. Its message is _"We're not like those stodgy old traditionalists -- we're hip and accepting"_ (as long as they're not asked to accept unchanging morality or the truth of Scripture).

Liberal Christianity rejects the core tenets of Christianity:
 including the belief that Jesus is God, 
 that all of mankind is guilty of sin and condemned to hell, 
 that God sacrificed His Son to bear the punishment for our sins, 
 that Scripture is the absolute, unchanging, perfect Word of God, 
 that the only path to salvation is through believing in Christ's sacrifice
 and by accepting His gift of eternal life by grace through faith.

You may be proud to call yourself a Liberal Christian but you do so at your own peril!


----------



## damemary

Award for most convoluted scripted Repub answer to _Liberalism. _



lovethelake said:


> What is the hate system? Why do libs focus so much on hate? I am a Conservative and I don't hate; disagree, disapprove, reject......some of the liberal agenda but I don't hate. In my opinion, when you spread such an unsubstantiated lie you are the one that 'hates' people that don't agree with you. I believe that libs are confused because they think that if someone does not agree with them that they hate them. Such a fallacy and such a sad way to live.


----------



## susanmos2000

Poodlai said:


> No reportedly ISIL found WMD materials. BUT they never point out that the chemicals and uranium that were supposedly seized _*arent just less than weapons-quality, theyre completely unusable.*_
> 
> It's the kind of 'fake news" Bush would've put in his SOTU speech like the 'Yellow Cake' debacle.
> 
> Bottom line like then ... "there' no there, there'.
> 
> We always knew and no one ever denied that there wouldn't be "skeletons" here and there.
> 
> Or like when they tried to claim there were tubes there designed for nuclear bombs. But there wasn't. What they had was a completely different kind/size tube for a different purpose that had nothing to do with making a bomb and couldn't be re-tooled as such.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> So no. There's still been NO _dangerous_ WMDs.
> *
> There are higher odds of more dangerous chemicals stored under some of our grand children's schools and playgrounds then we'll ever find of WMD's in IRAQ.*


So true, Poodlai. Those so-called WMDs--cracked shells bearing traces of mustard gas, rusting drums filled with chemicals so unstable they've been buried under tons of concrete--date back from the Iran-Iraq War and were abandoned more than two decades ago. The consensus has been that ISIS is more than welcome to haul that garbage back to Raqqa--it's so toxic it'll frizzle their beards off if they try to move it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

mzmom1 said:


> Apparently that doesn't matter any more, judging from what we have now. A Canadian would be a distinct improvement.


Nearly anyone would be a distinct improvement. Ted Cruz, however, is and was born an American. He had dual citizenship with Canada but gave up his Canada citizenship.

I'm happy he will run and am anticipating an energetic season of rivals for the Oval Office from the GOP.

I think Rand Paul announces today, and soon Mark Rubio and Carly, Geb, Walker and Huckabee and possibly others will too. I wonder if Trump will officially announce.

The Dems seem to be only interested in running Hillary and have no other options.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

lovethelake said:


> What is the hate system? Why do libs focus so much on hate? I am a Conservative and I don't hate; disagree, disapprove, reject......some of the liberal agenda but I don't hate. In my opinion, when you spread such an unsubstantiated lie you are the one that 'hates' people that don't agree with you. I believe that libs are confused because they think that if someone does not agree with them that they hate them. Such a fallacy and such a sad way to live.


It's Lisa - that's all anyone needs to know. Hate personified.


----------



## NJG

Poodlai said:


> No reportedly ISIL found WMD materials. BUT they never point out that the chemicals and uranium that were supposedly seized _*arent just less than weapons-quality, theyre completely unusable.*_
> 
> It's the kind of 'fake news" Bush would've put in his SOTU speech like the 'Yellow Cake' debacle.
> 
> Bottom line like then ... "there' no there, there'.
> 
> We always knew and no one ever denied that there wouldn't be "skeletons" here and there.
> 
> Or like when they tried to claim there were tubes there designed for nuclear bombs. But there wasn't. What they had was a completely different kind/size tube for a different purpose that had nothing to do with making a bomb and couldn't be re-tooled as such.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> So no. There's still been NO _dangerous_ WMDs.
> *
> There are higher odds of more dangerous chemicals stored under some of our grand children's schools and playgrounds then we'll ever find of WMD's in IRAQ.*


Or like West Texas, right in your neighborhood and no regulations or any idea really what was actually there. But you know, it was a business and there must not be any hindrance on business even though people might die.


----------



## Designer1234

damemary said:


> Many good people recognize the good and bad in themselves. They try to be humble; to be charitable to their fellow man, and it's a challenge worth taking.


I think that is true --


----------



## Designer1234

mzmom1 said:


> Apparently that doesn't matter any more, judging from what we have now. A Canadian would be a distinct improvement.


One of his parents was American. So he had dual Citizenship.

He has given up his Canadian citizenship which a lot of us up here are very thankul for.


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> if anyone thinks that we are still the one and only Power in the World that counts, think again. We are part of a global community and need to learn - and quickly - how to exist in it. Big Fish are in the wings, to replace us.


----------



## Designer1234

lovethelake said:


> What is the hate system? Why do libs focus so much on hate? I am a Conservative and I don't hate; disagree, disapprove, reject......some of the liberal agenda but I don't hate. In my opinion, when you spread such an unsubstantiated lie you are the one that 'hates' people that don't agree with you. I believe that libs are confused because they think that if someone does not agree with them that they hate them. Such a fallacy and such a sad way to live.


Question: what if someone who has been your friend for many many years, had voted for Obama? What would your reaction be?


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nearly anyone would be a distinct improvement. Ted Cruz, however, is and was born an American. He had dual citizenship with Canada but gave up his Canada citizenship.
> 
> I'm happy he will run and am anticipating an energetic season of rivals for the Oval Office from the GOP.
> 
> I think Rand Paul announces today, and soon Mark Rubio and Carly, Geb, Walker and Huckabee and possibly others will too. I wonder if Trump will officially announce.
> 
> The Dems seem to be only interested in running Hillary and have no other options.


You call those options?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

SQM said:


> You call those options?


I said the Dems have no other options.

What options (candidates) is your political party offering if one other than Hillary?


----------



## SQM

The options on both sides are totally unacceptable at this point. My Evil Republican Twin believes that a moderate governor will step up to the Rep plate and not the extremists. I don't think the US wants libertarians as a pres. 

I am not a member of the Democratic Party. I am an Independent. Since both parties are in the pockets of Military Contractors and Big Business - I prefer to stay independent. Thanks for your well-toned reply.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

SQM said:


> The options on both sides are totally unacceptable at this point. My Evil Republican Twin believes that a moderate governor will step up to the Rep plate and not the extremists. I don't think the US wants libertarians as a pres.
> 
> I am not a member of the Democratic Party. I am an Independent. Since both parties are in the pockets of Military Contractors and Big Business - I prefer to stay independent. Thanks for your well-toned reply.


Anytime SQuiRm. For once in your life, attempt to write a post without slamming someone who doesn't think as you do. It will lift your spirits.


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> Anytime SQuiRm. For once in your life, attempt to write a post without slamming someone who doesn't think as you do. It will lift your spirits.


Excuse me KGB. I thanked you for writing a civil response. Where is your grip? I slammed only my twin - certainly not you.


----------



## GWPlver

SQM said:


> Excuse me KGB. I thanked you for writing a civil response. Where is your grip? I slammed only my twin - certainly not you.


So let's discuss who we think the Democratic options will be.


----------



## MrsB

Isn't Hawaii still part of the United States? &#9786;


----------



## damemary

I hope everyone had a lovely spring Easter. Good day today too.


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> they did? Are you in touch with ISIS? They are telling you stuff? Interesting. VERY interesting.


Read a newspaper once in a while. A whole new world will open up for you.


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> please, remain where you are. We City Slickers like to keep a certain segment of the population to a minimum. We intellectuals can be snobby and it would be tough for you to exist there and be happy. We are far too open minded for your taste and much too diverse and far out. You could never compete with any of us. We love to visit small Towns just to see how they function and are always happy to return to our very interesting lives in the BIG Cities. We are not much into collecting Cars perched on Concrete Blocks turning into collections or Barns missing boards so that the Wind can play a song throughout it. Used to like the small Towns with lots of Farmers tending their Fields but since
> big money has destroyed them, they no longer call us to move there. Just as greed has destroyed Detroit, it also has destroyed our Countryside and quaint Farms with lovely People looking after them. Greed is the root of all evil.


Off your meds Huckleberry? Get thee to the pharmacy.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> You can't blame the bad economy on this administration. It was a shambles and named the Great Recession when President Obama took office. It is improving, just not fast enough for some, but it has improved.
> How good do you think things will be when the idiot Republicans in the Houses march us off to war in the ME again? Who's going to pay for that? I guarantee you it won't be the big corporations. It will kill small businesses and kill the economy.
> Keep backing Netenyahu.........
> 
> Maybe where you live small businesses aren't putting it back into the economy, but here they do every time they have to make an order, or order baseball and hockey jerseys for the teams that they sponsor.
> The sponsored teams in turn support the business with their business.


Of course you can. Obama has been in office for 6 years and the economy has not improved. It's his policies that have kept things stagnant. For heavens sake it is time to STOP blaming Bush for what Obama is doing or not doing.


----------



## soloweygirl

SQM said:


> The options on both sides are totally unacceptable at this point. My Evil Republican Twin believes that a moderate governor will step up to the Rep plate and not the extremists. I don't think the US wants libertarians as a pres.
> 
> I am not a member of the Democratic Party. I am an Independent. Since both parties are in the pockets of Military Contractors and Big Business - I prefer to stay independent. Thanks for your well-toned reply.


Who would you like to see run from any party? You can be an Independent and still have an opinion.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

The Race Up Macho Mountain
For possible 2016 candidates, the Islamic State group debate is largely Rand Paul versus the hawks.
US Senator Rand Paul Announces 2016 US Presidential Bid


----------



## sumpleby

soloweygirl said:


> Of course you can. Obama has been in office for 6 years and the economy has not improved. It's his policies that have kept things stagnant. For heavens sake it is time to STOP blaming Bush for what Obama is doing or not doing.


Repeating this canard doesn't make it true. The economy has substantially improved over the past 4 years. MY house value has gone back up, my retirement savings, which supplement my pension, are growing now instead of shrinking. Jobs are up. Just about everything is "up."


----------



## galinipper

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> please, remain where you are. We City Slickers like to keep a certain segment of the population to a minimum. We intellectuals can be snobby and it would be tough for you to exist there and be happy. We are far too open minded for your taste and much too diverse and far out. You could never compete with any of us. We love to visit small Towns just to see how they function and are always happy to return to our very interesting lives in the BIG Cities. We are not much into collecting Cars perched on Concrete Blocks turning into collections or Barns missing boards so that the Wind can play a song throughout it. Used to like the small Towns with lots of Farmers tending their Fields but since
> big money has destroyed them, they no longer call us to move there. Just as greed has destroyed Detroit, it also has destroyed our Countryside and quaint Farms with lovely People looking after them. Greed is the root of all evil.


Are you going to claim to be top heavy in degrees too? 
Please spare us your flapdoodle.
You should be thanking a farmer, fieldworker, chemist, labworker, seed producer, farm equipment sales, farm equipment and implement manufacturer, surveyors and irrigation specialist everytime you open your mouth and shove something in it. You are certainly out of touch and extremely ungrateful. Stupidty is the root of evil also. By the way Detroit crashed because progressives liberal dems ripped it off for 40 years.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

galinipper said:


> Are you going to claim to be top heavy in degrees too?
> Please spare us your flapdoodle.
> You should be thanking a farmer, fieldworker, chemist, labworker, seed producer, farm equipment sales, farm equipment and implement manufacturer, surveyors and irrigation specialist everytime you open your mouth and shove something in it. You are certainly out of touch and extremely ungrateful. Stupidty is the root of evil also. By the way Detroit crashed because progressives liberal dems ripped it off for 40 years.


Please spare us your antics and codswallop cowgirl. It isn't the '50's anymore. Where did you get your education, Dale Evans H.S. ? Figures you're from Indiana.


----------



## SQM

soloweygirl said:


> Who would you like to see run from any party? You can be an Independent and still have an opinion.


I have no opinion yet. There is still a year and a half for me to see who throws her/his hat in the ring. Thanks for asking.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> Of course you can. Obama has been in office for 6 years and the economy has not improved. It's his policies that have kept things stagnant. For heavens sake it is time to STOP blaming Bush for what Obama is doing or not doing.


Source Factcheck.org

In announcing his presidential candidacy, Sen. Ted Cruz painted a bleak picture of economic stagnation and record numbers of small-business failures. Hes off base on both counts.

Far from being stagnant, *the U.S. economy has chalked up five straight years of growth, gaining nearly 11.5 million jobs since early 2010.*
*It is actually new business establishment openings that have recently posted the biggest gains on record. The number of business establishment deaths is currently well below the record  which was set in late 2008 .*

When Cruz announced his run for the Republican nomination March 23, we quickly noted a number of the Texas senators dubious claims in an item we called FactChecking Cruz. But wait, theres more.

Economic Stagnation

In his address at Liberty University, Cruz repeatedly asked his audience to imagine a better economic future. Better than what? Cruz used the classic straw man deception, pitting his own bright vision of the future against a sham version of the present.

Cruz said millions of young people are scared and worried about the future. Perhaps so. But then he said:

Cruz, March 23: Think just how different the world would be. Imagine instead of economic stagnation, booming economic growth.

Economic stagnation is commonly defined to mean a prolonged period of little or no growth, and the fact is that real (inflation-adjusted) *U.S. gross domestic product grew 2.4 percent last year, which was also the best year for job growth in 15 years.*

*It was the fifth straight year of annual increases in GDP. Since job losses from the Great Recession of 2007-2009 finally turned around in February 2010, the U.S. has gained nearly 11.5 million jobs. Corporate profits have soared to new records, as have stock prices.*

All that may or may not quite qualify as booming economic growth, but its incorrect to call it stagnation. The worst that Cruz could accurately say about recent economic growth is that it is somewhat below the historical average.

The average annual change in U.S. real GDP since World War II has been just under 3 percent, while the U.S. economy gained 2.2 percent in 2013, 2.3 percent in 2012, 1.6 percent in 2011 and 2.5 percent in 2010.

Record Small-Business Deaths

Cruz also got it wrong when he spoke of small businesses closing their doors in record numbers:

Cruz, March 23: Instead of small businesses going out of business in record numbers, imagine small businesses growing and prospering.

*Actually, the number of business establishment deaths is down by 18 percent from the record of 238,000  a peak that occurred in the last three months of 2008.*

Business deaths

The number of establishments that had closed their doors for at least a full year was 195,000 in the three months ending in September 2013, according to the most recent quarterly figures on business births and deaths from the Bureau of Labor Statistics Business Employment Dynamics report.

As a check on the BLS numbers, we also looked at business bankruptcies, and they are nowhere near record levels.

Bankruptcy filings

Since the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005 was signed into law  making it more difficult to file for bankruptcy  the highest annual number of business filings for bankruptcy was just under 61,000 in the recession-plagued year of 2009, according to figures from the Administrative Office of U.S. Courts, as compiled by the American Bankruptcy Institute.

Last year the number of business bankruptcies was down by more than half  to 26,983.

These bankruptcy figures count filings by businesses of all sizes, but practically all of them are small. Less than one-third of 1 percent of all business firms have more than 500 employees, according to Census figures.

Bankruptcy isnt the only reason a firm goes out of business, of course. Profitable firms can be sold, merged or just abandoned when aging owners decide its time to retire. But if closings were going up, we would expect bankruptcies to be going up also.

And while both business deaths and business bankruptcies are declining, births of new business establishments have recently hit new records.

Business Establishment Births

What is the record for business births? Well disregard the huge spike of 584,000 new establishments, which appeared in the first three months of 2013. Thats a statistical fluke that came about when BLS began counting health care workers who serve seniors in their homes as employees of an establishment rather than as household workers, resulting in a surge of previously uncounted establishments.

Ignoring that  the record is 229,000 establishment births, posted in the second quarter of 2013, and the next highest total was 224,000 establishment births during the third quarter of that year. In the most recent quarter on record  ending in June of last year  there were 220,000 establishment births, still one of the highest on record. BLS started this statistical series in 1992.

A technical note: All these figures exclude the self-employed. An establishment is counted as born when its first employee shows up as being covered by unemployment insurance.

Suffice to say, Cruz just got it wrong when he spoke of small businesses going out of business in record numbers. And we werent the only ones to notice. Our friends at Politifact.com rated that statement as false on the websites truth-o-meter, relying on a different set of figures  from the Census Bureau.

The Cruz campaign has yet to respond to our repeated requests for some evidence supporting his claim. Politifact said it didnt get a response from the campaign, either.

 Brooks Jackson


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

The reality is that Republicans really have no other choice than to stoop to character assassination, because if they are forced to run on actual ideas in 2016, they would not only lose the White House but Capitol Hill as well. :XD:

Christian Paranoia Makes for Awful Legislation
Posted: 03/30/2015 12:23 pm EDT Updated: 03/30/2015 9:59 pm EDT Detroit News Dale Hansen

Christians across the country are paranoid. In their minds, there is an unmitigated war on Christianity, where Christians are becoming the most ostracized group in America. Essentially, crying "Christian oppression" has become the white conservative version of playing the race card, and conservative media darling Todd Starnes is the Al Sharpton of this movement. No offense is too insignificant for Starnes to fan the flames of imaginary outrage:

Student gets reprimanded for adding "God bless America" to the morning announcements without permission, and it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
Say the pledge of allegiance in multiple languages to honor America's immigrant history, and again it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
For people like Starnes, it is a matter of religious freedom for Christians to espouse their beliefs whenever and wherever they please. However, if Muslims or atheists were to do the exact same thing, it would show how the liberal public education system is instituting Sharia law and indoctrinating students to hate Jesus. The cognitive dissociation required to make such contradictory arguments is astounding.

Of course, guys like Starnes are easy to dismiss as media trolls looking to make a buck by pandering to the irrational fears of low-information voters. The real problem is the wave of legislators across the nation who are peddling hate under the guise of religious rights.

In Michigan, for example, the legislature recently took up two different "religious freedom" bills. One would allow adoption agencies to deny service to people in the LGBT community. The other would allow for the denial of housing, refusal of service, or rejection of employment due to a citizen's religious beliefs.

The adoption bill seems destined to fail a constitutionality test, since previous decisions regarding the separation of church and state have shown that these protections are for things that are secular in nature. Allowing a religious-based adoption agency to receive state funding while denying service to people solely based on the organization's religious beliefs appears to violate the Supreme Court's previous rulings.

Perhaps more concerning than the potential constitutionality of this legislation is the idea that an organization acting as an intermediary has more rights than the children they are tasked with helping. If the kids don't mind having same-sex parents, then the religious objections of the adoption agency are completely immaterial. Do these organizations get to deny adoptions to individuals who have been divorced? Can they turn away adults who take contraception? Is denying the obese a rational religious exception? If an applicant had an abortion previously, can they be rejected? These are all sins or against the religious teachings of these organizations -- does that mean they are protected too?

But if legislators and these entities are really concerned about the well-being of these children, then maybe they should support legislation that prevents some of the thousands of mistreatments that occur at the hands of adoptive and foster parent each year. Does anyone really think protecting the religious rights of an organization should be a higher priority for Michigan than preventing harm to children?

Data also show that kids who are forced into foster care are more likely to be homeless, incarcerated, and unemployed. Is letting a same-sex couple love and raise a child really worse than the alternative? Should children really have to suffer because of an organization's religious objections?

The selfishness required to place the religious freedom of an organization above the good of children seems extraordinarily un-Christian.

As far as allowing people to deny services, housing, or employment based on faith is concerned, so far the courts have ruled against such arguments. If you want to discriminate against any particular group, then all you need to do is become a members-only entity. Churches can refuse to marry same-sex couples because you must be a member to receive service. If you don't want any women at your private golf club, there is nothing the government can do to prevent you from implementing such a policy. But if you want all the benefits of dealing with the public, you forfeit your ability to operate outside government regulations. The baker can refuse to include speech they find offensive on a cake, but they can't refuse to provide a cake based on who you are as a person.

Having said that, if enacted, these laws are likely to hurt the people they are designed to protect. A florist may refuse to provide flowers for a Catholic wedding, since the Catholic Church has been shown to protect pedophiles. A photographer could deny services to white customers because they only serve blacks. An atheist DJ could decline the opportunity to work with Christians because they have a conscientious objection to their beliefs. And as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, you can guarantee that Todd Starnes will be outraged and pretend that when these laws are used against Christians, it is an abomination that requires government intervention.

The good news is that, while this legislation may be popular among a small group of people, the general trend shows that Americans are increasingly against this sort of discrimination. This means that, like slavery, interracial marriage, and women's equality before it, those who are using the bible as justification for their prejudice against the LGBT community will soon find themselves on the wrong side of history as well as the law.

In the end, the Constitution already protects everyone's religious freedom. If the courts have decided that your brand of Christianity isn't covered by this historical document, it doesn't mean that there is a war against Christianity. It means you're using your religion to hide the fact that you're an intolerant bigot.


----------



## Wombatnomore

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please spare us your antics and codswallop cowgirl. It isn't the '50's anymore. Where did you get your education, Dale Evans H.S. ? Figures you're from Indiana.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Dale Carnegie more like it!


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> Anytime SQuiRm. For once in your life, attempt to write a post without slamming someone who doesn't think as you do. It will lift your spirits.


 :shock: :shock: :shock: Wow! why don't you show us how???? Show us any of your poststhat you haven't slammed one of us or all of us. That would lift our spirits -- not gonna happen. I don't remember one even on the main forum.


----------



## lovethelake

Hey Cheeky, Jesus only had a foster dad. Read "The Shack" and maybe you can be enlightened about the Trinity.


----------



## Designer1234

MrsB said:


> Isn't Hawaii still part of the United States? ☺


I was always taught that it is a State -- when did it change? Wait ---I just checked the world atlas and sure enough Hawaii is a STATE of the United States and was long before the first election when he became President. Just as he is a Christian, but they call him a muslim, Just as they question whether he really graduated from college, even though it has been proved he did. He isn't looking to rule the world but those same people say he is in a conspiracy to achieve that.

He has been called a liar, and so many dreadful things that we can't remember them all. He has handled it with grace, even when they insult his wife and family.

if I am right then all the kerfuffle is ridiculous. He is a Citizen --- we all know it including those of the right. They just choose to say he isn't because of their personal agendas.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> Repeating this canard doesn't make it true. The economy has substantially improved over the past 4 years. MY house value has gone back up, my retirement savings, which supplement my pension, are growing now instead of shrinking. Jobs are up. Just about everything is "up."


What facts support your opinion? The economy is not substantially improved, it is and has been on life support for the past four years. House values may have gone up slightly in SOME areas as more and more people have gone through refinances after Dodd-Frank killed the housing industry and marketplace DESPITE what the economy has done to the housing industry which always waxes and wanes. The NYSE and NASDAQ are humming along DESPITE all the rules and regs placed on businesses by the present Admin except businesses are NOT investing NOR expanding into new businesses or the economy. Businesses are holding onto their capital which presents fantastic balance sheets and great dividends to their investors - which does not help the general person without investments. Interest rates are near zero, the most revenue EVER is flowing into the govt and our roads, schools, hospitals, airports, bridges, borders, military, etc., are failing with no help in sight. The GDP has no substantial increases and our debt is above 18 trillion and unsustainable.

Jobs growth is nonexistent and pathetic because of Obama's policies and economic decisions. More people cannot find employment who want to work then any other recent time in history, so the present Admin changed how Unemployment figures are calculated so he can lie to the American people. Those with meaningful work have had stagnate wages for years. Only those with superior skills and experience are experiencing increases in job opportunities and compensation. The middle of the pack and first-time earners are floundering, college graduates have enormous debts and cannot find work. Food stamp recipients are more than 50% of the able population, and more than 50% of legal Americans pay zero in income taxes.

Just about everything is failing and you cannot prove it isn't because the facts don't lie although you continue to repeat your canard and lies.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> Are you going to claim to be top heavy in degrees too?
> Please spare us your flapdoodle.
> You should be thanking a farmer, fieldworker, chemist, labworker, seed producer, farm equipment sales, farm equipment and implement manufacturer, surveyors and irrigation specialist everytime you open your mouth and shove something in it. You are certainly out of touch and extremely ungrateful. Stupidty is the root of evil also. By the way Detroit crashed because progressives liberal dems ripped it off for 40 years.


Does a Community Living Center in MO count as 'city-slicker' living arrangements?


----------



## galinipper

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please spare us your antics and codswallop cowgirl. It isn't the '50's anymore. Where did you get your education, Dale Evans H.S. ? Figures you're from Indiana.


Some would take your post as a negative. Nothing in it is anything to be ashamed of, especially when you weigh it against the way others live their lives. So sincerely, thank you for the compliments.

By-the-way......I made a selfie stick out of a rake and rubberbands. If you want the directions let me know.


----------



## galinipper

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Dale Carnegie more like it!


I have listened to many Dale Carnegie tapes, but have only been to one seminar. Have you?


----------



## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does a Community Living Center in MO count as 'city-slicker' living arrangements?


To some it would. Or they watched the movie 'City Slicker.' :XD: :XD: :XD:

dictionary.com definition says a city slicker is 1.someone with the sophistication often attributed to city people. 2. A smooth tricky untrustworthy person. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
I'm going with # 2 for the win. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

lovethelake said:


> Hey Cheeky, Jesus only had a foster dad. Read "The Shack" and maybe you can be enlightened about the Trinity.


The Shack is a novel and not a very good one at that. If you believe what is in that book you are going against what it says in the bible concerning Jesus relationship with God. I call that heresy.
You can't have it both ways ltl. Either you are a heretic or you are not. Which is it? A foster father is a father too so if you consider Jesus the son of God he did in fact have two fathers, one an ordinary man and the other God. And you claim to know your religion. You read some silly book with Sarayu, Papa and Jesus and believe it. It certainly isn't Catholic doctrine but maybe you are a "Shack" Catholic.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

galinipper said:


> Some would take your post as a negative. Nothing in it is anything to be ashamed of, especially when you weigh it against the way others live their lives. So sincerely, thank you for the compliments.
> 
> By-the-way......I made a selfie stick out of a rake and rubberbands. If you want the directions let me know.


I gave you no compliment which indicates your lack of understanding of common English. I don't do selfie's and from the looks of you and Trigger you shouldn't be either. Let the dead rest in peace.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> What facts support your opinion? The economy is not substantially improved, it is and has been on life support for the past four years. House values may have gone up slightly in SOME areas as more and more people have gone through refinances after Dodd-Frank killed the housing industry and marketplace DESPITE what the economy has done to the housing industry which always waxes and wanes. The NYSE and NASDAQ are humming along DESPITE all the rules and regs placed on businesses by the present Admin except businesses are NOT investing NOR expanding into new businesses or the economy. Businesses are holding onto their capital which presents fantastic balance sheets and great dividends to their investors - which does not help the general person without investments. Interest rates are near zero, the most revenue EVER is flowing into the govt and our roads, schools, hospitals, airports, bridges, borders, military, etc., are failing with no help in sight. The GDP has no substantial increases and our debt is above 18 trillion and unsustainable.
> 
> Jobs growth is nonexistent and pathetic because of Obama's policies and economic decisions. More people cannot find employment who want to work then any other recent time in history, so the present Admin changed how Unemployment figures are calculated so he can lie to the American people. Those with meaningful work have had stagnate wages for years. Only those with superior skills and experience are experiencing increases in job opportunities and compensation. The middle of the pack and first-time earners are floundering, college graduates have enormous debts and cannot find work. Food stamp recipients are more than 50% of the able population, and more than 50% of legal Americans pay zero in income taxes.
> 
> Just about everything is failing and you cannot prove it isn't because the facts don't lie although you continue to repeat your canard and lies.


Who's facts are you talking about? The facts that you conjure up in your head? The facts that Fox News tell you? 
They certainly aren't the true facts.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> What facts support your opinion? The economy is not substantially improved, it is and has been on life support for the past four years. House values may have gone up slightly in SOME areas as more and more people have gone through refinances after Dodd-Frank killed the housing industry and marketplace DESPITE what the economy has done to the housing industry which always waxes and wanes. The NYSE and NASDAQ are humming along DESPITE all the rules and regs placed on businesses by the present Admin except businesses are NOT investing NOR expanding into new businesses or the economy. Businesses are holding onto their capital which presents fantastic balance sheets and great dividends to their investors - which does not help the general person without investments. Interest rates are near zero, the most revenue EVER is flowing into the govt and our roads, schools, hospitals, airports, bridges, borders, military, etc., are failing with no help in sight. The GDP has no substantial increases and our debt is above 18 trillion and unsustainable.
> 
> Jobs growth is nonexistent and pathetic because of Obama's policies and economic decisions. More people cannot find employment who want to work then any other recent time in history, so the present Admin changed how Unemployment figures are calculated so he can lie to the American people. Those with meaningful work have had stagnate wages for years. Only those with superior skills and experience are experiencing increases in job opportunities and compensation. The middle of the pack and first-time earners are floundering, college graduates have enormous debts and cannot find work. Food stamp recipients are more than 50% of the able population, and more than 50% of legal Americans pay zero in income taxes.
> 
> Just about everything is failing and you cannot prove it isn't because the facts don't lie although you continue to repeat your canard and lies.


Who's facts are you talking about? The facts that you conjure up in your head? The facts that Fox News tell you? 
They certainly aren't the true facts.


----------



## SQM

Cheeks and Brat remind me so much of each other. You have the same fighting spirit. And you both are hilarious. 

I emailed PP. Yet to hear anything.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The reality is that Republicans really have no other choice than to stoop to character assassination, because if they are forced to run on actual ideas in 2016, they would not only lose the White House but Capitol Hill as well. :XD:
> 
> Christian Paranoia Makes for Awful Legislation
> Posted: 03/30/2015 12:23 pm EDT Updated: 03/30/2015 9:59 pm EDT Detroit News Dale Hansen
> 
> Christians across the country are paranoid. In their minds, there is an unmitigated war on Christianity, where Christians are becoming the most ostracized group in America. Essentially, crying "Christian oppression" has become the white conservative version of playing the race card, and conservative media darling Todd Starnes is the Al Sharpton of this movement. No offense is too insignificant for Starnes to fan the flames of imaginary outrage:
> 
> Student gets reprimanded for adding "God bless America" to the morning announcements without permission, and it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> Say the pledge of allegiance in multiple languages to honor America's immigrant history, and again it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> For people like Starnes, it is a matter of religious freedom for Christians to espouse their beliefs whenever and wherever they please. However, if Muslims or atheists were to do the exact same thing, it would show how the liberal public education system is instituting Sharia law and indoctrinating students to hate Jesus. The cognitive dissociation required to make such contradictory arguments is astounding.
> 
> Of course, guys like Starnes are easy to dismiss as media trolls looking to make a buck by pandering to the irrational fears of low-information voters. The real problem is the wave of legislators across the nation who are peddling hate under the guise of religious rights.
> 
> In Michigan, for example, the legislature recently took up two different "religious freedom" bills. One would allow adoption agencies to deny service to people in the LGBT community. The other would allow for the denial of housing, refusal of service, or rejection of employment due to a citizen's religious beliefs.
> 
> The adoption bill seems destined to fail a constitutionality test, since previous decisions regarding the separation of church and state have shown that these protections are for things that are secular in nature. Allowing a religious-based adoption agency to receive state funding while denying service to people solely based on the organization's religious beliefs appears to violate the Supreme Court's previous rulings.
> 
> Perhaps more concerning than the potential constitutionality of this legislation is the idea that an organization acting as an intermediary has more rights than the children they are tasked with helping. If the kids don't mind having same-sex parents, then the religious objections of the adoption agency are completely immaterial. Do these organizations get to deny adoptions to individuals who have been divorced? Can they turn away adults who take contraception? Is denying the obese a rational religious exception? If an applicant had an abortion previously, can they be rejected? These are all sins or against the religious teachings of these organizations -- does that mean they are protected too?
> 
> But if legislators and these entities are really concerned about the well-being of these children, then maybe they should support legislation that prevents some of the thousands of mistreatments that occur at the hands of adoptive and foster parent each year. Does anyone really think protecting the religious rights of an organization should be a higher priority for Michigan than preventing harm to children?
> 
> Data also show that kids who are forced into foster care are more likely to be homeless, incarcerated, and unemployed. Is letting a same-sex couple love and raise a child really worse than the alternative? Should children really have to suffer because of an organization's religious objections?
> 
> The selfishness required to place the religious freedom of an organization above the good of children seems extraordinarily un-Christian.
> 
> As far as allowing people to deny services, housing, or employment based on faith is concerned, so far the courts have ruled against such arguments. If you want to discriminate against any particular group, then all you need to do is become a members-only entity. Churches can refuse to marry same-sex couples because you must be a member to receive service. If you don't want any women at your private golf club, there is nothing the government can do to prevent you from implementing such a policy. But if you want all the benefits of dealing with the public, you forfeit your ability to operate outside government regulations. The baker can refuse to include speech they find offensive on a cake, but they can't refuse to provide a cake based on who you are as a person.
> 
> Having said that, if enacted, these laws are likely to hurt the people they are designed to protect. A florist may refuse to provide flowers for a Catholic wedding, since the Catholic Church has been shown to protect pedophiles. A photographer could deny services to white customers because they only serve blacks. An atheist DJ could decline the opportunity to work with Christians because they have a conscientious objection to their beliefs. And as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, you can guarantee that Todd Starnes will be outraged and pretend that when these laws are used against Christians, it is an abomination that requires government intervention.
> 
> The good news is that, while this legislation may be popular among a small group of people, the general trend shows that Americans are increasingly against this sort of discrimination. This means that, like slavery, interracial marriage, and women's equality before it, those who are using the bible as justification for their prejudice against the LGBT community will soon find themselves on the wrong side of history as well as the law.
> 
> In the end, the Constitution already protects everyone's religious freedom. If the courts have decided that your brand of Christianity isn't covered by this historical document, it doesn't mean that there is a war against Christianity. It means you're using your religion to hide the fact that you're an intolerant bigot.


Very good read, Cheeky. Whenever asked what freedom Christians are losing, there is never an answer.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Of course you can. Obama has been in office for 6 years and the economy has not improved. It's his policies that have kept things stagnant. For heavens sake it is time to STOP blaming Bush for what Obama is doing or not doing.


soloweygirl
sorry. Madam, Bush will have to take blame for years to come. He messed up this country royally. President Obama has straightened out a whole lot of messes handed him by Bush. I know, I know, you want this to go away and believe me, so do we BUT unfortunately, it won't for a long time.


----------



## SQM

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> sorry. Madam, Bush will have to take blame for years to come. He messed up this country royally. President Obama has straightened out a whole lot of messes handed him by Bush. I know, I know, you want this to go away and believe me, so do we BUT unfortunately, it won't for a long time.


Very well stated, Huckle. Good reaching across the aisle.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Who's facts are you talking about? The facts that you conjure up in your head? The facts that Fox News tell you?
> They certainly aren't the true facts.


Bratty Patty
let's realize that there is another Bush running for President and the Sins of his Brother are not working in his favor. It is our duty to keep G.W.'s misdeeds out in the open. Mama Bush said it right: "There have been enough Bush's in the White House" and all of them with the same Genes, that is the problem.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The Shack is a novel and not a very good one at that. If you believe what is in that book you are going against what it says in the bible concerning Jesus relationship with God. I call that heresy.
> You can't have it both ways ltl. Either you are a heretic or you are not. Which is it? A foster father is a father too so if you consider Jesus the son of God he did in fact have two fathers, one an ordinary man and the other God. And you claim to know your religion. You read some silly book with Sarayu, Papa and Jesus and believe it. It certainly isn't Catholic doctrine but maybe you are a "Shack" Catholic.


Cheeky Blighter
this stuff is news to me. Thought to know Old and New Testament. What have I been missing?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

SQM said:


> Cheeks and Brat remind me so much of each other. You have the same fighting spirit. And you both are hilarious.
> 
> I emailed PP. Yet to hear anything.


Thanks SQM. Hope you get in touch with PP soon. How is Chicago, my favorite city, treating you? Are you within the city limits or in one of the burbs. Must be a big change from your old digs. I spent many summers in Chicago with relatives and always had so much fun. We still go there often.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> Very good read, Cheeky. Whenever asked what freedom Christians are losing, there is never an answer.


"Imagine" that. :hunf:


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The Race Up Macho Mountain
> For possible 2016 candidates, the Islamic State group debate is largely Rand Paul versus the hawks.
> US Senator Rand Paul Announces 2016 US Presidential Bid


Cheeky Blighter
Rand Paul is flip flopping more than a thousand Flippers. As the clock turns so do his answers. We have a wealth of entertainment to look forward to. Wonder why the GOP folks dislike our Country so much. They are trying their d....... to turn those Countries who still like us, against us.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> this stuff is news to me. Thought to know Old and New Testament. What have I been missing?


It's ltl's version of the trinity. You haven't missed a thing Huck. :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits

sumpleby said:


> Repeating this canard doesn't make it true. The economy has substantially improved over the past 4 years. MY house value has gone back up, my retirement savings, which supplement my pension, are growing now instead of shrinking. Jobs are up. Just about everything is "up."


Apparently including the dander of those who want to see Mr. Obama fail. Regardless of the impact on all the rest of us, just to have this happen. My hangnails bleed for them. The country has a long way to recover to the prosperity we enjoyed when Mr. Clinton handed the reins to Mr. Bush II who proceeded to flush it all.


----------



## susanmos2000

MarilynKnits said:


> Apparently including the dander of those who want to see Mr. Obama fail. Regardless of the impact on all the rest of us, just to have this happen. My hangnails bleed for them. The country has a long way to recover to the prosperity we enjoyed when Mr. Clinton handed the reins to Mr. Bush II who proceeded to flush it all.


Who knows what the future holds? We may be getting two Clintons for the price of one in 2016. :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Rand Paul is flip flopping more than a thousand Flippers. As the clock turns so do his answers. We have a wealth of entertainment to look forward to. Wonder why the GOP folks dislike our Country so much. They are trying their d....... to turn those Countries who still like us, against us.


They're a bunch of traitors to our country. The Liberals are the real patriots in this country. The righties, except for Paul, are a bunch of hawks who pledge allegiance to Netanyahu. If they start a war with Iran they had better be prepared to send their kids and grandkids to do the fighting because the rest of us have already done our duty in Bush and Cheney's fake wars. They want a theocracy where they call all the shots. Some are so anxious for the second coming that they will do anything to speed things along. They see all the "signs" just like so many others have in the past only to wake up and find they haven't been taken up in the rapture. If I was one of them I would be worried that I was still here on earth with all the Liberals. Ooops they must have done something very very bad. :twisted:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Who knows what the future holds? We may be getting two Clintons for the price of one in 2016. :thumbup:


I'll vote for that! :thumbup:


----------



## SQM

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks SQM. Hope you get in touch with PP soon. How is Chicago, my favorite city, treating you? Are you within the city limits or in one of the burbs. Must be a big change from your old digs. I spent many summers in Chicago with relatives and always had so much fun. We still go there often.


I just heard from PP. I told her she is missed. If the gang PMs her, she might consider coming back.

I move on the 30th so still in NYC having a total breakdown. I will be across from the lake on the north side in the city. Had 12 years of the burbs and never again.

I hope to hell that I get a chance to meet you. My new bldg has guest suites for $60 nightly so let me know via a pm. You must come and visit.


----------



## sumpleby

BrattyPatty said:


> Who's facts are you talking about? The facts that you conjure up in your head? The facts that Fox News tell you?
> They certainly aren't the true facts.


Don't bother. People have posted the facts time after time and those on the right continue to claim otherwise.


----------



## Designer1234

SQM said:


> Cheeks and Brat remind me so much of each other. You have the same fighting spirit. And you both are hilarious.
> 
> I emailed PP. Yet to hear anything.


Is she able to answer pm's? or can you pm me her email address. Thanks


----------



## NJG

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> let's realize that there is another Bush running for President and the Sins of his Brother are not working in his favor. It is our duty to keep G.W.'s misdeeds out in the open. Mama Bush said it right: "There have been enough Bush's in the White House" and all of them with the same Genes, that is the problem.


Besides that, Jeb has hired some of W's advisers to help him with his campaign. That makes a lot of sense doesn't it, when he tries to say he is his own man.


----------



## SQM

Designer1234 said:


> Is she able to answer pm's? or can you pm me her email address. Thanks


She is following so you can Pm her and get her to come back. I cannot give out her email without her permission. But you can ask her. Thanks to you, too.


----------



## susanmos2000

NJG said:


> Besides that, Jeb has hired some of W's advisers to help him with his campaign. That makes a lot of sense doesn't it, when he tries to say he is his own man.


Sounds like Pinocchio...only HE had the Blue Fairy to help him out in his quest for substance.


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They're a bunch of traitors to our country. The Liberals are the real patriots in this country. The righties, except for Paul, are a bunch of hawks who pledge allegiance to Netanyahu. If they start a war with Iran they had better be prepared to send their kids and grandkids to do the fighting because the rest of us have already done our duty in Bush and Cheney's fake wars. They want a theocracy where they call all the shots. Some are so anxious for the second coming that they will do anything to speed things along.


I know--scary, isn't it? I personally think that the changes the country is experiencing (an African-American in the White House, equal rights for members of the LGBT community) are driving them straight out of their minds...so much so that Armageddon, the Second Coming, and all the rest of it starts sounding pretty good in comparison.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> I know--scary, isn't it? I personally think that the changes the country is experiencing (an African-American in the White House, equal rights for members of the LGBT community) are driving them straight out of their minds...so much so that Armageddon, the Second Coming, and all the rest of it starts sounding pretty good in comparison.


 Second coming is Armageddon . It is after the 1000 years on Earth when Jesus is reigning . Then the Great White Throne of Judgement and then New Heavens and New Earth, then New Jerusalem. You better reserve your seat. You won't think the 7 years of Tribulation is fun. No joking around.


----------



## SQM

Country Bumpkins said:


> Second coming is Armageddon . It is after the 1000 years on Earth when Jesus is reigning . Then the Great White Throne of Judgement and then New Heavens and New Earth, then New Jerusalem. You better reserve your seat. You won't think the 7 years of Tribulation is fun. No joking around.


I already had more than 7 years of tribulation with Ex-man and it was no fun, indeed.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> Second coming is Armageddon . It is after the 1000 years on Earth when Jesus is reigning . Then the Great White Throne of Judgement and then New Heavens and New Earth, then New Jerusalem. You better reserve your seat. You won't think the 7 years of Tribulation is fun.


I don't doubt that, CB. But only He knows the hour, and we exist in the here and now. It's a copout to chalk up all the problems of this world to The Forces of Evil and not even attempt to solve them.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't doubt that, CB. But only He knows the hour, and we exist in the here and now. It's a copout to chalk up all the problems of this world to The Forces of Evil and not even attempt to solve them.


Did I say that? No I did not. I agree with you on that only God knows the day or hour but that is nothing to do with what I said. Read it again.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> Did I say that? No I did not. I agree with you on that only God knows the day or hour but that is nothing to do with what I said. Read it again.


*sigh* I did read it, CB, and I know it's a warning from you to accept Jesus into my heart before it's too late. I understand you mean well, but I really don't think you need to worry yourself about the state of my soul.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> sorry. Madam, Bush will have to take blame for years to come. He messed up this country royally. President Obama has straightened out a whole lot of messes handed him by Bush. I know, I know, you want this to go away and believe me, so do we BUT unfortunately, it won't for a long time.


Huck, thank you! Bush himself said that it would take more than one presidency to clean up the mess he left behind.
The RWN's cannot understand that or just flat out refuse to believe it.


----------



## Designer1234

I will pm her right away.



SQM said:


> She is following so you can Pm her and get her to come back. I cannot give out her email without her permission. But you can ask her. Thanks to you, too.


----------



## damemary

It's such a nice spring day that I sat outside and enjoyed the flowers and the breeze for hours. Hope you are all enjoying your day too.


----------



## cookiequeen

damemary said:


> It's such a nice spring day that I sat outside and enjoyed the flowers and the breeze for hours. Hope you are all enjoying your day too.


We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


----------



## SQM

cookiequeen said:


> We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


Try going outside and do a rain dance.


----------



## BrattyPatty

cookiequeen said:


> We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


We had it too, cookie. I know how much you need it. It dried up as fast as it fell. The wind has been howling here for almost a week!
The south had more snow this year than we did. No, there's no such thing as climate change!


----------



## BrattyPatty

damemary said:


> It's such a nice spring day that I sat outside and enjoyed the flowers and the breeze for hours. Hope you are all enjoying your day too.


Can you pack up some of that sunshine and send it here?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> Don't bother. People have posted the facts time after time and those on the right continue to claim otherwise.


Typical and expected response. When a Dem or Lib is faced with the facts they either run, blame another or change the subject just as I said not too long ago.

You did exactly the same last week when you challenged my statement that Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel as if the enemy of the USA. I gave example after example of how Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel to open a discussion. You refused to respond and now do again what the KP Libs always do; repeat a Dem talking point and cannot argue the facts because you don't know them or cannot support your opinions.


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> Typical and expected response. When a Dem or Lib is faced with the facts they either run, blame another or change the subject just as I said not too long ago.
> 
> You did exactly the same last week when you challenged my statement that Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel as if the enemy of the USA. I gave example after example of how Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel. You refused to respond and now do again what the KP Libs always do; repeat a Dem talking point and cannot argue the facts because you don't know them or cannot support your opinions.


Oh god. She is still up.


----------



## BrattyPatty

SQM said:


> Oh god. She is still up.


She has a short memory. She responded to that this afternoon. Me thinks KPG is losing what is left of her mind. In fact almost all of her responses to anyone are the same; narcissistic , repetive, and full of lies. Typical repug behavior.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does a Community Living Center in MO count as 'city-slicker' living arrangements?


Are you looking to relocate, KPG?


----------



## susanmos2000

SQM said:


> Oh god. She is still up.


Are you surprised? Break out the garlic, ladies--Vampira has just emerged from her coffin.


----------



## damemary

Of course not. We're in the midst of a warmed April on record, following the warmest March. Seems as though the cold gets colder and the hot gets hotter. I'll have to see what conservative 'scientists' have to explain it.



cookiequeen said:


> We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you surprised? Break out the garlic, ladies--Vampira has just emerged from her coffin.


I'll get the Holy Water.


----------



## damemary

You can try but I prefer a more scientific approach.



SQM said:


> Try going outside and do a rain dance.


----------



## damemary

I wonder what Boston and New York have to say about it.



BrattyPatty said:


> We had it too, cookie. I know how much you need it. It dried up as fast as it fell. The wind has been howling here for almost a week!
> The south had more snow this year than we did. No, there's no such thing as climate change!


----------



## damemary

I'll huff and I'll puff.......it'll come.



BrattyPatty said:


> Can you pack up some of that sunshine and send it here?


----------



## BrattyPatty

damemary said:


> I wonder what Boston and New York have to say about it.


They thought,"So this is what it's like to live in Minnesota!"


----------



## BrattyPatty

damemary said:


> I'll huff and I'll puff.......it'll come.


Yay! It's been cloudy more than not. Very damp too. I want some good old desert heat!


----------



## damemary

Watch that red-head complexion.



BrattyPatty said:


> Yay! It's been cloudy more than not. Very damp too. I want some good old desert heat!


----------



## sumpleby

knitpresentgifts said:


> Typical and expected response. When a Dem or Lib is faced with the facts they either run, blame another or change the subject just as I said not too long ago.
> 
> You did exactly the same last week when you challenged my statement that Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel as if the enemy of the USA. I gave example after example of how Obama treats Netanyahu and Israel to open a discussion. You refused to respond and now do again what the KP Libs always do; repeat a Dem talking point and cannot argue the facts because you don't know them or cannot support your opinions.


Last week I was away for three days and never saw your reply. As for this, why should I repost what others already have ad infinitum?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:


> Last week I was away for three days and never saw your reply. As for this, why should I repost what others already have ad infinitum?


No Lib has posted any facts to support your opinion of today. You only recited a DNC talking point(s). So what's your reply and facts in support on your new post?


----------



## damemary

Hi sumpleby! Missed you and I'm glad you're home. Have a good day.


----------



## sumpleby

Hi Damemary! Hope your day was as good as mine was--went out for a sushi lunch. Yum!


KPG, you are getting boring. Ignore the facts all you want, no skin off my nose.


----------



## Wombatnomore

galinipper said:


> I have listened to many Dale Carnegie tapes, but have only been to one seminar. Have you?


Well, good for you!


----------



## Wombatnomore

MarilynKnits said:


> Apparently including the dander of those who want to see Mr. Obama fail. Regardless of the impact on all the rest of us, just to have this happen. My hangnails bleed for them. The country has a long way to recover to the prosperity we enjoyed when Mr. Clinton handed the reins to Mr. Bush II who proceeded to flush it all.


 :XD: Bleeding hangnails! Sorry, but I couldn't help myself. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> Are you looking to relocate, KPG?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you surprised? Break out the garlic, ladies--Vampira has just emerged from her coffin.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> I'll get the Holy Water.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I'll stop! Maybe.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

sumpleby said:
 

> Hi Damemary! Hope your day was as good as mine was--went out for a sushi lunch. Yum!
> 
> KPG, you are getting boring. Ignore the facts all you want, no skin off my nose.


Sumpleby, you're such a good little Lib. I hope you enjoy your run and don't run into any facts because it's obvious you don't know any and therefore wouldn't recognize them. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion but Dem talking points and increasing the page count of my thread.

I'm forever grateful.


----------



## SQM

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: Bleeding hangnails! Sorry, but I couldn't help myself. :XD: :XD: :XD:


I discovered a new exotic form of life from Australia - Sia!


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's ltl's version of the trinity. You haven't missed a thing Huck. :thumbup:


Cheeky Blighter,
oh good, hate to be uninformed you know!


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> Who knows what the future holds? We may be getting two Clintons for the price of one in 2016. :thumbup:


susanmos2000
Now that is a BIG Jackpot.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sumpleby, you're such a good little Lib. I hope you enjoy your run and don't run into any facts because it's obvious you don't know any and therefore wouldn't recognize them. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion but Dem talking points and increasing the page count of my thread.
> 
> I'm forever grateful.


knitpresentgifts
glad you recognize the goodness in some of us. We also know your need for exposure and try to help you out.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They're a bunch of traitors to our country. The Liberals are the real patriots in this country. The righties, except for Paul, are a bunch of hawks who pledge allegiance to Netanyahu. If they start a war with Iran they had better be prepared to send their kids and grandkids to do the fighting because the rest of us have already done our duty in Bush and Cheney's fake wars. They want a theocracy where they call all the shots. Some are so anxious for the second coming that they will do anything to speed things along. They see all the "signs" just like so many others have in the past only to wake up and find they haven't been taken up in the rapture. If I was one of them I would be worried that I was still here on earth with all the Liberals. Ooops they must have done something very very bad. :twisted:


Cheeky lighter
At least Rand Paul has a little sense of right and wrong. He is not quite honest in stating it but we get the drift.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> Second coming is Armageddon . It is after the 1000 years on Earth when Jesus is reigning . Then the Great White Throne of Judgement and then New Heavens and New Earth, then New Jerusalem. You better reserve your seat. You won't think the 7 years of Tribulation is fun. No joking around.


Country Bumpkins
now, can you explain this stuff? It sure is a scrambled mess.


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sumpleby, you're such a good little Lib. I hope you enjoy your run and don't run into any facts because it's obvious you don't know any and therefore wouldn't recognize them. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion but Dem talking points and increasing the page count of my thread.
> 
> I'm forever grateful.


The repubs and teabaggers are the ones who don't care about facts. They ignore them and make up their own "facts" and repeat them, hoping everyone else believes them, too. 
You are the one who doesn't state any real facts to support your idiotic points of view. You state them as if they were facts and encourage your minions to accept and believe them. Pathetic!


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you surprised? Break out the garlic, ladies--Vampira has just emerged from her coffin.


Reminder. She is on her thread she started. :shock:


----------



## Wombatnomore

SQM said:


> I discovered a new exotic form of life from Australia - Sia!


And isn't she brilliant? I love that she refuses to conform to the celebrity clap-trap - yet, anyway!


----------



## SQM

Wombatnomore said:


> And isn't she brilliant? I love that she refuses to conform to the celebrity clap-trap - yet, anyway!


She was on The Voice (America) and her bangs (fringe) went all the way down to her mouth so her hair covered almost her entire face. She looked like a sheep dog or like she was wearing a hair burka. Never heard of her so I texted my daughter who said she is strange.


----------



## Wombatnomore

SQM said:


> She was on The Voice (America) and her bangs (fringe) went all the way down to her mouth so her hair covered almost her entire face. She looked like a sheep dog or like she was wearing a hair burka. Never heard of her so I texted my daughter who said she is strange.


Wonderfully strange! Stranger than Gaga (whom I think sold herself out badly as it happens).


----------



## SQM

Wombatnomore said:


> Wonderfully strange! Stranger than Gaga (whom I think sold herself out badly as it happens).


Clearly you are cooler than I am. Gaga was great on the Oscars. Her shtick was becoming old.

I love gray blunt cuts but I could not even pay attention to her song I was so fascinated by that long face covering hair. I am not smart at attaching pics. Can you find one that shows her latest look?


----------



## Huckleberry

Did I read that KPG is relocating? Dear>>>>> not into my neighborhood. Need to put up warning signs.


----------



## Huckleberry

SQM said:


> She was on The Voice (America) and her bangs (fringe) went all the way down to her mouth so her hair covered almost her entire face. She looked like a sheep dog or like she was wearing a hair burka. Never heard of her so I texted my daughter who said she is strange.


SQM
how could you have missed her?


----------



## susanmos2000

Huckleberry said:


> Did I read that KPG is relocating? Dear>>>>> not into my neighborhood. Need to put up warning signs.


So true, Huck. Might I suggest...?


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Huck. Might I suggest...?


susanmos2000
thank you. I may put that to use.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> now, can you explain this stuff? It sure is a scrambled mess.


1.Salvation
2.Rapture of the church, born again believers gone.Jesus is in the clouds calling us up.
3.Seven years of Tribulation on Earth. Non-believers left behind for 7 years. 
During the 7 years the born again are going to be at the Marriage of the Lamb celebration. Jesus is going to be the Host.
4.After 7 years we are ALL coming down from Heaven on white horses to annihilate the enemy. 
The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast
Reveltion 19
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter.[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
The anti-christ, the false-prophet and satan will the thrown in the pit.
5 . Then we shall reign on earth for 1000 years with the ones that got saved during the tribulation period that didn't take the 
mark of the beast.
After the 1000 years satan will be loose for a season to tempt the ones can be deceived with him. 
6. Then the Great White Throne of Judgement . Everyone will be judges, people, demon and satan. Then every knee will bow the the Great I AM and Son
7.The angel cast satan to cast into the lake of fire and brimstone forever more.
8 Then the new heaven and the new earth will come down.
9. The the people of God will live in New Jerusalem forever more. Amen. Even so come, Lord Jesus.
It that better?


----------



## SQM

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> how could you have missed her?


I no longer listen to music.


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> No Lib has posted any facts to support your opinion of today. You only recited a DNC talking point(s). So what's your reply and facts in support on your new post?


 :roll: :shock: :twisted:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Huck. Might I suggest...?


Revelation 22:12-16

Jesus Testifies to the Churches

12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.[a]

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,* that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 
15 But[c] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.*


----------



## cookiequeen

Country Bumpkins said:


> Revelation 22:12-16
> 
> Jesus Testifies to the Churches
> 
> 12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
> 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.[a]
> 
> 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,* that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
> 15 But[c] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
> 
> 16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.*


*

I think there are many, many people (some here on KP) who knowingly spout continuous lies, believe them, and encourage others to believe them, too. I won't name names.*


----------



## Country Bumpkins

cookiequeen said:


> I think there are many, many people (some here on KP) who knowingly spout continuous lies, believe them, and encourage others to believe them, too. I won't name names.


I am not the Judge. Just quoting Jesus.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> 1.Salvation
> 2.Rapture of the church, born again believers gone.Jesus is in the clouds calling us up.
> 3.Seven years of Tribulation on Earth. Non-believers left behind for 7 years.
> During the 7 years the born again are going to be at the Marriage of the Lamb celebration. Jesus is going to be the Host.
> 4.After 7 years we are ALL coming down from Heaven on white horses to annihilate the enemy.
> The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast
> Reveltion 19
> 11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter.[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
> 
> king of kings and lord of lords.
> 
> 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.
> 
> 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
> The anti-christ, the false-prophet and satan will the thrown in the pit.
> 5 . Then we shall reign on earth for 1000 years with the ones that got saved during the tribulation period that didn't take the
> mark of the beast.
> After the 1000 years satan will be loose for a season to tempt the ones can be deceived with him.
> 6. Then the Great White Throne of Judgement . Everyone will be judges, people, demon and satan. Then every knee will bow the the Great I AM and Son
> 7.The angel cast satan to cast into the lake of fire and brimstone forever more.
> 8 Then the new heaven and the new earth will come down.
> 9. The the people of God will live in New Jerusalem forever more. Amen. Even so come, Lord Jesus.
> It that better?


Not really. Those are just words, and human languages are a very inadequate tool for conveying His thoughts and plans for us and the world. It's all we have to work with, of course, but it's presumptuous to think that even a literal interpretation of the Bible could convey more than a fraction of what He has in mind.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> 1.Salvation
> 2.Rapture of the church, born again believers gone.Jesus is in the clouds calling us up.
> 3.Seven years of Tribulation on Earth. Non-believers left behind for 7 years.
> During the 7 years the born again are going to be at the Marriage of the Lamb celebration. Jesus is going to be the Host.
> 4.After 7 years we are ALL coming down from Heaven on white horses to annihilate the enemy.
> The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast
> Reveltion 19
> 11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter.[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
> 
> king of kings and lord of lords.
> 
> 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.
> 
> 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
> The anti-christ, the false-prophet and satan will the thrown in the pit.
> 5 . Then we shall reign on earth for 1000 years with the ones that got saved during the tribulation period that didn't take the
> mark of the beast.
> After the 1000 years satan will be loose for a season to tempt the ones can be deceived with him.
> 6. Then the Great White Throne of Judgement . Everyone will be judges, people, demon and satan. Then every knee will bow the the Great I AM and Son
> 7.The angel cast satan to cast into the lake of fire and brimstone forever more.
> 8 Then the new heaven and the new earth will come down.
> 9. The the people of God will live in New Jerusalem forever more. Amen. Even so come, Lord Jesus.
> It that better?


Country Bumpkins,
thank you, great effort, however, more confused than ever. That born again stuff is weird. New Heaven and Earth will come down? By parachute or UFO? Where are those going who are not people of God and in Jerusalem? Lake of fire, hm. The mark of the beast? Is that a bite by a monster? Waging War - I see there is Love (sarcasm). Read all of this gory stuff to a child and it will have nightmares forever. See how confusing those old scripts are? I was always told that I got a brain, to use it and therefore I have a need to question a lot of things. I have no problem you believing all of this, just do not expect others to do so as well.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> Not really. Those are just words, and human languages are a very inadequate tool for conveying His thoughts and plans for us and the world. It's all we have to work with, of course, but it's presumptuous to think that even a literal interpretation of the Bible could convey more than a fraction of what He has in mind.


There are only 2 kind of people saved or unsaved. Choice is yours.


----------



## Huckleberry

SQM said:


> I no longer listen to music.


SQM
the first time I ever heard her sing and I have to say she has a fabulous voice, was at the Oscars. She has been outrageous in her attire for a long time and that makes her visible.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> There are only 2 kind of people saved or unsaved. Choice is yours.


*sigh* I think it's a bit more complicated than that, CB. There are millions and millions of people on Earth today who've never had access to a Christian Bible or heard a missionary speak, and millions upon millions in the past (thinking in particular of the Americas before the Europeans arrived) who missed the boat as well. No one is ever going to convince that He threw them into the fiery pit simply because they happened to be born in the wrong place at the wrong time.


----------



## soloweygirl

sumpleby said:


> Repeating this canard doesn't make it true. The economy has substantially improved over the past 4 years. MY house value has gone back up, my retirement savings, which supplement my pension, are growing now instead of shrinking. Jobs are up. Just about everything is "up."


I don't agree that a growth of 2% or less a substantially improved economy. What jobs are available have been part time and lower income, thus not substantially improving the economy. Keep an eye on the housing market, there has been talk of once again lowering the requirements to get a mortgage. The only thing that has gone up is the stock market.


----------



## soloweygirl

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The reality is that Republicans really have no other choice than to stoop to character assassination, because if they are forced to run on actual ideas in 2016, they would not only lose the White House but Capitol Hill as well. :XD:
> 
> Christian Paranoia Makes for Awful Legislation
> Posted: 03/30/2015 12:23 pm EDT Updated: 03/30/2015 9:59 pm EDT Detroit News Dale Hansen
> 
> Christians across the country are paranoid. In their minds, there is an unmitigated war on Christianity, where Christians are becoming the most ostracized group in America. Essentially, crying "Christian oppression" has become the white conservative version of playing the race card, and conservative media darling Todd Starnes is the Al Sharpton of this movement. No offense is too insignificant for Starnes to fan the flames of imaginary outrage:
> 
> Student gets reprimanded for adding "God bless America" to the morning announcements without permission, and it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> Say the pledge of allegiance in multiple languages to honor America's immigrant history, and again it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> For people like Starnes, it is a matter of religious freedom for Christians to espouse their beliefs whenever and wherever they please. However, if Muslims or atheists were to do the exact same thing, it would show how the liberal public education system is instituting Sharia law and indoctrinating students to hate Jesus. The cognitive dissociation required to make such contradictory arguments is astounding.
> 
> Of course, guys like Starnes are easy to dismiss as media trolls looking to make a buck by pandering to the irrational fears of low-information voters. The real problem is the wave of legislators across the nation who are peddling hate under the guise of religious rights.
> 
> In Michigan, for example, the legislature recently took up two different "religious freedom" bills. One would allow adoption agencies to deny service to people in the LGBT community. The other would allow for the denial of housing, refusal of service, or rejection of employment due to a citizen's religious beliefs.
> 
> The adoption bill seems destined to fail a constitutionality test, since previous decisions regarding the separation of church and state have shown that these protections are for things that are secular in nature. Allowing a religious-based adoption agency to receive state funding while denying service to people solely based on the organization's religious beliefs appears to violate the Supreme Court's previous rulings.
> 
> Perhaps more concerning than the potential constitutionality of this legislation is the idea that an organization acting as an intermediary has more rights than the children they are tasked with helping. If the kids don't mind having same-sex parents, then the religious objections of the adoption agency are completely immaterial. Do these organizations get to deny adoptions to individuals who have been divorced? Can they turn away adults who take contraception? Is denying the obese a rational religious exception? If an applicant had an abortion previously, can they be rejected? These are all sins or against the religious teachings of these organizations -- does that mean they are protected too?
> 
> But if legislators and these entities are really concerned about the well-being of these children, then maybe they should support legislation that prevents some of the thousands of mistreatments that occur at the hands of adoptive and foster parent each year. Does anyone really think protecting the religious rights of an organization should be a higher priority for Michigan than preventing harm to children?
> 
> Data also show that kids who are forced into foster care are more likely to be homeless, incarcerated, and unemployed. Is letting a same-sex couple love and raise a child really worse than the alternative? Should children really have to suffer because of an organization's religious objections?
> 
> The selfishness required to place the religious freedom of an organization above the good of children seems extraordinarily un-Christian.
> 
> As far as allowing people to deny services, housing, or employment based on faith is concerned, so far the courts have ruled against such arguments. If you want to discriminate against any particular group, then all you need to do is become a members-only entity. Churches can refuse to marry same-sex couples because you must be a member to receive service. If you don't want any women at your private golf club, there is nothing the government can do to prevent you from implementing such a policy. But if you want all the benefits of dealing with the public, you forfeit your ability to operate outside government regulations. The baker can refuse to include speech they find offensive on a cake, but they can't refuse to provide a cake based on who you are as a person.
> 
> Having said that, if enacted, these laws are likely to hurt the people they are designed to protect. A florist may refuse to provide flowers for a Catholic wedding, since the Catholic Church has been shown to protect pedophiles. A photographer could deny services to white customers because they only serve blacks. An atheist DJ could decline the opportunity to work with Christians because they have a conscientious objection to their beliefs. And as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, you can guarantee that Todd Starnes will be outraged and pretend that when these laws are used against Christians, it is an abomination that requires government intervention.
> 
> The good news is that, while this legislation may be popular among a small group of people, the general trend shows that Americans are increasingly against this sort of discrimination. This means that, like slavery, interracial marriage, and women's equality before it, those who are using the bible as justification for their prejudice against the LGBT community will soon find themselves on the wrong side of history as well as the law.
> 
> In the end, the Constitution already protects everyone's religious freedom. If the courts have decided that your brand of Christianity isn't covered by this historical document, it doesn't mean that there is a war against Christianity. It means you're using your religion to hide the fact that you're an intolerant bigot.


Character assassination? You Democrats have had that subject covered for years. Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## soloweygirl

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The reality is that Republicans really have no other choice than to stoop to character assassination, because if they are forced to run on actual ideas in 2016, they would not only lose the White House but Capitol Hill as well. :XD:
> 
> Christian Paranoia Makes for Awful Legislation
> Posted: 03/30/2015 12:23 pm EDT Updated: 03/30/2015 9:59 pm EDT Detroit News Dale Hansen
> 
> Christians across the country are paranoid. In their minds, there is an unmitigated war on Christianity, where Christians are becoming the most ostracized group in America. Essentially, crying "Christian oppression" has become the white conservative version of playing the race card, and conservative media darling Todd Starnes is the Al Sharpton of this movement. No offense is too insignificant for Starnes to fan the flames of imaginary outrage:
> 
> Student gets reprimanded for adding "God bless America" to the morning announcements without permission, and it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> Say the pledge of allegiance in multiple languages to honor America's immigrant history, and again it's proof of Christians being marginalized.
> For people like Starnes, it is a matter of religious freedom for Christians to espouse their beliefs whenever and wherever they please. However, if Muslims or atheists were to do the exact same thing, it would show how the liberal public education system is instituting Sharia law and indoctrinating students to hate Jesus. The cognitive dissociation required to make such contradictory arguments is astounding.
> 
> Of course, guys like Starnes are easy to dismiss as media trolls looking to make a buck by pandering to the irrational fears of low-information voters. The real problem is the wave of legislators across the nation who are peddling hate under the guise of religious rights.
> 
> In Michigan, for example, the legislature recently took up two different "religious freedom" bills. One would allow adoption agencies to deny service to people in the LGBT community. The other would allow for the denial of housing, refusal of service, or rejection of employment due to a citizen's religious beliefs.
> 
> The adoption bill seems destined to fail a constitutionality test, since previous decisions regarding the separation of church and state have shown that these protections are for things that are secular in nature. Allowing a religious-based adoption agency to receive state funding while denying service to people solely based on the organization's religious beliefs appears to violate the Supreme Court's previous rulings.
> 
> Perhaps more concerning than the potential constitutionality of this legislation is the idea that an organization acting as an intermediary has more rights than the children they are tasked with helping. If the kids don't mind having same-sex parents, then the religious objections of the adoption agency are completely immaterial. Do these organizations get to deny adoptions to individuals who have been divorced? Can they turn away adults who take contraception? Is denying the obese a rational religious exception? If an applicant had an abortion previously, can they be rejected? These are all sins or against the religious teachings of these organizations -- does that mean they are protected too?
> 
> But if legislators and these entities are really concerned about the well-being of these children, then maybe they should support legislation that prevents some of the thousands of mistreatments that occur at the hands of adoptive and foster parent each year. Does anyone really think protecting the religious rights of an organization should be a higher priority for Michigan than preventing harm to children?
> 
> Data also show that kids who are forced into foster care are more likely to be homeless, incarcerated, and unemployed. Is letting a same-sex couple love and raise a child really worse than the alternative? Should children really have to suffer because of an organization's religious objections?
> 
> The selfishness required to place the religious freedom of an organization above the good of children seems extraordinarily un-Christian.
> 
> As far as allowing people to deny services, housing, or employment based on faith is concerned, so far the courts have ruled against such arguments. If you want to discriminate against any particular group, then all you need to do is become a members-only entity. Churches can refuse to marry same-sex couples because you must be a member to receive service. If you don't want any women at your private golf club, there is nothing the government can do to prevent you from implementing such a policy. But if you want all the benefits of dealing with the public, you forfeit your ability to operate outside government regulations. The baker can refuse to include speech they find offensive on a cake, but they can't refuse to provide a cake based on who you are as a person.
> 
> Having said that, if enacted, these laws are likely to hurt the people they are designed to protect. A florist may refuse to provide flowers for a Catholic wedding, since the Catholic Church has been shown to protect pedophiles. A photographer could deny services to white customers because they only serve blacks. An atheist DJ could decline the opportunity to work with Christians because they have a conscientious objection to their beliefs. And as soon as the shoe is on the other foot, you can guarantee that Todd Starnes will be outraged and pretend that when these laws are used against Christians, it is an abomination that requires government intervention.
> 
> The good news is that, while this legislation may be popular among a small group of people, the general trend shows that Americans are increasingly against this sort of discrimination. This means that, like slavery, interracial marriage, and women's equality before it, those who are using the bible as justification for their prejudice against the LGBT community will soon find themselves on the wrong side of history as well as the law.
> 
> In the end, the Constitution already protects everyone's religious freedom. If the courts have decided that your brand of Christianity isn't covered by this historical document, it doesn't mean that there is a war against Christianity. It means you're using your religion to hide the fact that you're an intolerant bigot.


Character assassination? You Democrats have had that subject covered for years. Thanks for the laugh.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does a Community Living Center in MO count as 'city-slicker' living arrangements?


It's all in her head. She can be anything she wants to be, all her voices tell her so. Now, aren't they supportive?


----------



## jmf6406

This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


----------



## soloweygirl

cookiequeen said:


> We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


There is always climate change. It changes every day, week, month and year. DUH!!!!!


----------



## Designer1234

'


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

SQM said:


> Oh god. She is still up.


She is a zombie so she doesn't need to sleep. LTL is one too. They don't have brains either but I bet you already figured that out. They just roam around mumbling c--p. :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

soloweygirl said:


> It's all in her head. She can be anything she wants to be, all her voices tell her so. Now, aren't they supportive?


You would know solo with all those multiples running around inside of you. Never know which one of you is going to pop out do ya?
Too bad they all have nothing to say.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> She has a short memory. She responded to that this afternoon. Me thinks KPG is losing what is left of her mind. In fact almost all of her responses to anyone are the same; narcissistic , repetive, and full of lies. Typical repug behavior.


She abandoned her own thread and we kept it going for her. She really is missing a few rotations in that big ball she is rolling around in. Looks like one of those disco balls that was popular in the '70's. Short memory, more like no memory. Then there is all that tripe rolling out of her mouth. They really brainwashed her good. :XD:


----------



## SQM

I suggest we dump this thread and leave it to KGB. There are more playgrounds in the park.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

soloweygirl said:


> There is always climate change. It changes every day, week, month and year. DUH!!!!!


Yep every day in Arkansas it is different. Has been for the 63 years I have been here. :shock:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh* I think it's a bit more complicated than that, CB. There are millions and millions of people on Earth today who've never had access to a Christian Bible or heard a missionary speak, and millions upon millions in the past (thinking in particular of the Americas before the Europeans arrived) who missed the boat as well. No one is ever going to convince that He threw them into the fiery pit simply because they happened to be born in the wrong place at the wrong time.


You are accountable now because I told you. Choice this day whom you serve.


----------



## NJG

cookiequeen said:


> We actually had rain today---not enough to amount to much, but every little bit counts. But there is no climate change, right?


Right, no climate change. After all "I am not a scientist."

My response to that is, since you are not a scientist, then why don't you think it is important to listen to the scientist? It's just like beating a dead horse to death, makes no sense.


----------



## Huckleberry

jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


jmf6406
fair way of looking at things.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable now because I told you. Choice this day whom you serve.


Bumpkins Country 
hearing voices?


----------



## cookiequeen

soloweygirl said:


> There is always climate change. It changes every day, week, month and year. DUH!!!!!


And you, my dear, must be one of the deniers since you don't even recognize the terminology! DUH!!


----------



## NJG

cookiequeen said:


> The repubs and teabaggers are the ones who don't care about facts. They ignore them and make up their own "facts" and repeat them, hoping everyone else believes them, too.
> You are the one who doesn't state any real facts to support your idiotic points of view. You state them as if they were facts and encourage your minions to accept and believe them. Pathetic!


Ever notice how they ramble on and on and try to sound so intelligent and knowledgeable, but in reality, they really don't say anything, especially KPG.


----------



## Designer1234

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable now because I told you. Choice this day whom you serve.


 It is interesting that other's religious beliefs are judged by you. Do you have special approval from God to judge others?


----------



## NJG

jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


And that is what the conservatives are doing now. Boehner gets on TV and says what the American people tell him what they want. Sorry Boehner, but the majority of the people do not want the same thing you want. The majority does not want the ACA to be repealed. The majority of the people want the minimum wage to be raised. The majority of the people agree with same sex marriage. The majority of the people do not want to discriminate against the LGBT community. The problem for the right is that the majority of the people will vote in the next election.


----------



## soloweygirl

NJG said:


> Ever notice how they ramble on and on and try to sound so intelligent and knowledgeable, but in reality, they really don't say anything, especially KPG.


I'm sure your typo should have read NJG.


----------



## SQM

Designer1234 said:


> It is interesting that other's religious beliefs are judged by you. Do you have special approval from God to judge others?


This is coming from an atheist:

Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


----------



## NJG

soloweygirl said:


> I'm sure your typo should have read NJG.


No, I got it right.


----------



## NJG

Remember hearing about Kansas and their budget problems because of all Brownbacks tax cuts. Well the problems continue.

Two school districts in Kansas will be closing early, one six days early and one 12 days early because they are out of money. 

In March, Gov. Sam Brownback did an overhaul of the of school funding which resulted in the state's schools loosing $51 million to finish out the year. Twin Valley school board members cited the present mid-year, unplanned financial cuts recently signed into law" as a reason for the early shutdown. 

Jindal in Louisiana is facing a big deficit also. Wonder if education will have to pay for his screw up also.

In Iowa Branstad increases the public school funding in the budget by 1.25% and pats himself on the back, while at the same time increases the budget for his office by 9%. 

Seems like education is at the bottom of the list in too many states.


----------



## susanmos2000

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


You've vouched for CB's character before, SQM, and that's one of the reasons I'm struggling to remain polite in the face of her incessant prostelatizing. But seriously, it's like opening the door to find a missionary parked on the doorstep with a Bible in one hand and a religious tract in the other. She may be a very fine person (I'll take your word for it) and no doubt she means well, but to me religion is a very personal matter and not something I want to discuss in a public forum.


----------



## Designer1234

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. _She is not judging_. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


--------------------

This is coming from a Christian:

She is a very fine person. I have known Country Bumpkins for about 2 -3 years. We were very good friends for quite a long time. She is very loyal to her beliefs which I applaud. I also am aware of her difficulties and tragedies.

_My question had nothing to do with you. As you have no idea how well she and I know each other and have for a long time_. I didn't agree with her post. I was not attacking her. I asked a question. I don't, as a Christian believe that I have the right to judge others. God will judge, not me. I don't believe that millions of people will go to hell because they don't even know what Christianity is. I find her very very judgmental but I understand she feels she has the right to judge everyone. I just don't agree.

That is all I will say.

CB I know you will read this. I meant no insult. I asked a legitimate question. I just believe God will make that decision not you.

I don't intend to carry this on any further.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


It doesn't matter what your faith or if you are of no faith. CB is speaking the words found in The Bible. Everyone has a hard row to hoe, some more harsh and difficult than others, but The Bible's truths do not change and are everlasting and true for anyone who believes and accepts them. I agree she wasn't judging, but for anyone who finds her words troublesome, that person needs to learn the words of God, as they were His, not CB's. No Christian needs to write to remind herself or support herself, the Word of God is a firm foundation and all anyone needs.


----------



## NJG

susanmos2000 said:


> You've vouched for CB's character before, SQM, and that's one of the reasons I'm struggling to remain polite in the face of her incessant prostelatizing. But seriously, it's like opening the door to find a missionary parked on the doorstep with a Bible in one hand and a religious tract in the other. She may be a very fine person (I'll take your word for it) and no doubt she means well, but to me religion is a very personal matter and not something I want to discuss in a public forum.


I agree and I try to avoid getting into the religious discussions as it is no ones business what my beliefs are. I very much resent people coming to knock on my door or preaching to me here on this forum.


----------



## SQM

knitpresentgifts said:


> It doesn't matter what your faith or if you are of no faith. CB is speaking the words found in The Bible. Everyone has a hard row to hoe, some more harsh and difficult than others, but The Bible's truths do not change and are everlasting and true for anyone who believes and accepts them. I agree she wasn't judging, but for anyone who finds her words troublesome, that person needs to learn the words of God, as they were His, not CB's. No Christian needs to write to remind herself or support herself, the Word of God is a firm foundation and all anyone needs.


Bull Bleep.


----------



## Designer1234

I agree SQM -- she inserts herself every post and once again it is not her business.


----------



## Designer1234

NJG said:


> I agree and I try to avoid getting into the religious discussions as it is no ones business what my beliefs are. I very much resent people coming to knock on my door or preaching to me here on this forum.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Designer1234 said:


> It is interesting that other's religious beliefs are judged by you. Do you have special approval from God to judge others?


You are accountable too.
I put the Word of God up. I am not the Judge . Why, if you are a Christian are you upset?


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> It doesn't matter what your faith or if you are of no faith. CB is speaking the words found in The Bible. Everyone has a hard row to hoe, some more harsh and difficult than others, but The Bible's truths do not change and are everlasting and true for anyone who believes and accepts them. I agree she wasn't judging, but for anyone who finds her words troublesome, that person needs to learn the words of God, as they were His, not CB's. No Christian needs to write to remind herself or support herself, the Word of God is a firm foundation and all anyone needs.


_Bang!_

(sound of a door slamming. And if that doesn't drive the newest proselytizer back to the sidewalk I'll release the hounds. My tolerance for this sort of thing dropped to zero when I saw who now was holding out the tracts)


----------



## Country Bumpkins

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


Bless you SQM. XX :thumbup:


----------



## NJG

susanmos2000 said:


> _Bang!_
> 
> (sound of a door slamming. And if that doesn't drive the newest proselytizer back to the sidewalk I'll release the hounds. My tolerance for this sort of thing dropped to zero when I saw who now was holding out the tracts)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> You've vouched for CB's character before, SQM, and that's one of the reasons I'm struggling to remain polite in the face of her incessant prostelatizing. But seriously, it's like opening the door to find a missionary parked on the doorstep with a Bible in one hand and a religious tract in the other. She may be a very fine person (I'll take your word for it) and no doubt she means well, but to me religion is a very personal matter and not something I want to discuss in a public forum.


You brought the subject up. It like calling me by name when you make silly statements about the Bible. I am faithful not religious.


----------



## cookiequeen

NJG said:


> And that is what the conservatives are doing now. Boehner gets on TV and says what the American people tell him what they want. Sorry Boehner, but the majority of the people do not want the same thing you want. The majority does not want the ACA to be repealed. The majority of the people want the minimum wage to be raised. The majority of the people agree with same sex marriage. The majority of the people do not want to discriminate against the LGBT community. The problem for the right is that the majority of the people will vote in the next election.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable too.
> I put the Word of God up. I am not the Judge . Why, if you are a Christian are you upset?


you have questioned my faith more than once. Believe what you wish, but don't judge me.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> You brought the subject up. It like calling me by name when you make silly statements about the Bible. I am faithful not religious.


In my opinion the Bible, in the hands of those who take it literally, IS appropriate fodder for the late-night comedians. There's nothing sillier than those who insist that He made the world in exactly six 24-hour spans (days). Or those who've somehow convinced themselves that Noah's ark was roomy enough to 2-7 of every animal in the world (plus a brace of carnivorous dinosaurs). And, as I explained before, I even think it's an insult to Him to believe that our human, oh-so-fallible language is capable of conveying precisely what He meant. It's sheer arrogance on our part to even think we could even come close.

But those are my views, and my views only. I don't claim to divine insight, and I certainly can accept that other people think differently about these things. Why can't you?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> In my opinion the Bible, in the hands of those who take it literally, IS appropriate fodder for the late-night comedians. There's nothing sillier than those who insist that He made the world in exactly six 24-hour spans (days). Or those who've somehow convinced themselves that Noah's ark was roomy enough to 2-7 of every animal in the world (plus a brace of carnivorous dinosaurs). And, as I explained before, I even think it's an insult to Him to believe that our human, oh-so-fallible language is capable of conveying precisely what He meant. It's sheer arrogance on our part to even think we could even come close.
> 
> But those are my views, and my views only. I don't claim to divine insight, and I certainly can accept that other people think differently about these things. Why can't you?


 I stand on the Word only. Amen. 
You are accountable now. No excuses.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Designer1234 said:


> you have questioned my faith more than once. Believe what you wish, but don't judge me.


How many times do I have to tell you I am not the Judge? I am the messenger.


----------



## Huckleberry

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


SQM
none of us have any problem with her believing as she does, what troubles us is that she is continuously trying to draw us in and since we are not biting, she sees us as condemned. If her Faith sustains her, wonderful. We just want her to keep it for herself.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> How many times do I have to tell you I am not the Judge? I am the messenger.


Country Bumpkins
get the message, stop knocking on our doors, we are not receiving messages. Can't you see the sign that reads: "No Soliciting"?


----------



## Designer1234

SQM said:


> This is coming from an atheist:
> 
> Don't be harsh about another person's beliefs until you know about them. Bumps has had a very hard row to hoe and her religion has probably kept her going. Pm her, introduce yourself and learn what a fine person she is. She is not judging. If you find her words troublesome, think that maybe she is writing to remind and support herself. Then it is all fine.


You don't have any idea what you are talking about. CB and I have exchanged many many pm's. We are not friends now for reasons I won't go into. However, I would appreciate it if you would not scold me or preach to me until you know what you are talking about. Thanks.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> I stand on the Word only. Amen.
> You are accountable now. No excuses.


Good grief, CB. It's conceited beyond belief to think that your interpretation of His word is so perfect that me turning a deaf ear is the same as turning my back on Him.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> Good grief, CB. It's conceited beyond belief to think that your interpretation of His word is so perfect that me turning a deaf ear is the same as turning my back on Him.


It is the same.
Remember I am just talking to you. You keep bringing me back into the conversation.
When you stop talking to me I will stop talking to you.


----------



## Huckleberry

NJG said:


> Remember hearing about Kansas and their budget problems because of all Brownbacks tax cuts. Well the problems continue.
> 
> Two school districts in Kansas will be closing early, one six days early and one 12 days early because they are out of money.
> 
> In March, Gov. Sam Brownback did an overhaul of the of school funding which resulted in the state's schools loosing $51 million to finish out the year. Twin Valley school board members cited the present mid-year, unplanned financial cuts recently signed into law" as a reason for the early shutdown.
> 
> Jindal in Louisiana is facing a big deficit also. Wonder if education will have to pay for his screw up also.
> 
> In Iowa Branstad increases the public school funding in the budget by 1.25% and pats himself on the back, while at the same time increases the budget for his office by 9%.
> 
> Seems like education is at the bottom of the list in too many states.


NJG
keep them dumb and they are malleable. Since the grown ups on the left are too smart and resist the Sermons of the right, they aim for our children.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> now, can you explain this stuff? It sure is a scrambled mess.


See you asked me a question.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> It doesn't matter what your faith or if you are of no faith. CB is speaking the words found in The Bible. Everyone has a hard row to hoe, some more harsh and difficult than others, but The Bible's truths do not change and are everlasting and true for anyone who believes and accepts them. I agree she wasn't judging, but for anyone who finds her words troublesome, that person needs to learn the words of God, as they were His, not CB's. No Christian needs to write to remind herself or support herself, the Word of God is a firm foundation and all anyone needs.


knitpresentgifts
"He's got the whole World, in his Hands, he's got the whole World in his Hands". Don't need no Earthling preaching to me where I stand with him. Quiet please.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable too.
> I put the Word of God up. I am not the Judge . Why, if you are a Christian are you upset?


Country Bumpkins,
you don't get it, do you. Preaching belongs in the Church not here. Why do you feel so chosen to put your finger into our faces?


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> See you asked me a question.


Country Bumpkins, 
please forget I asked. I want quiet.


----------



## Designer1234

Designer1234 said:


> Question: LTL: what if someone who has been your friend for many many years, had voted for Obama? What would your reaction be?


Interesting I didn't get an answer to the above question.


----------



## Huckleberry

Designer1234 said:


> Interesting I didn't get an answer to the above question.


Designer1234
some folks are very loose with the term Friends. In their lives, they come and go.


----------



## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> Good grief, CB. It's conceited beyond belief to think that your interpretation of His word is so perfect that me turning a deaf ear is the same as turning my back on Him.


susanmos2000
exactly how I feel. I would not want any Preacher pretending to know how the Almighty feels about me. That would be pompous to the highest degree.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You would know solo with all those multiples running around inside of you. Never know which one of you is going to pop out do ya?
> Too bad they all have nothing to say.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

I am glad I missed the tent revival.


----------



## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> I am glad I missed the tent revival.


Heehee--love the avatar, Patty!

:XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--love the avatar, Patty!
> 
> :XD: :XD:


Your post about him standing on a street corner to earn 2 bits led me to find this. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Your post about him standing on a street corner to earn 2 bits led me to find this. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Well, you topped me--that's about the funniest thing I've seen yet!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska

Country Bumpkins said:


> I stand on the Word only. Amen.
> You are accountable now. No excuses.


Amen!
There are none so blind as those who will not see.


----------



## BrattyPatty

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, you topped me--that's about the funniest thing I've seen yet!


Then I'll keep it until the 2016 primaries are over. I don't think he'll make it past that.


----------



## susanmos2000

Act 2 of the tent revival--I'm out of here!


----------



## cookiequeen

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--love the avatar, Patty!
> 
> :XD: :XD:


Me, too!


----------



## BrattyPatty

cookiequeen said:


> Me, too!


Me 3! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234

Country Bumpkins said:


> See you asked me a question.


SOOO?


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> some folks are very loose with the term Friends. In their lives, they come and go.


Right -- I had a reason for asking her. I really didn't expect a truthful answer.


----------



## Designer1234

BrattyPatty said:


> Me 3! :XD: :XD: :XD:


me four!


----------



## BrattyPatty

Designer1234 said:


> me four!


Hi Shirley! It is rather comical, don't you think?


----------



## SQM

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Okay Brat. Your avatar gave me my first gaffaw of the day. My outrageous Brat. Big thanks. Wish you were here.


----------



## Designer1234

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Shirley! It is rather comical, don't you think?


This whole evening's conversation has been unnecessary. I don't usually talk about my beliefs but I get frustrated when her way is the only true way. I am going to go and read and tomorrow I will talk about something else. She judges, and she is the only true believer -- NOT . I have a different Christianity than she does. Thankfully.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Love the avatar, Patty! Talk about revival, all they need now is a tent in another location! :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love the avatar, Patty! Talk about revival, all they need now is a tent in another location! :XD:


This is KPG's thread she agrees with me. Maybe our tent is in the right place. :shock:


----------



## BrattyPatty

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is KPG's thread she agrees with me. Maybe our tent is in the right place. :shock:


I wasn't aware that in the rules of KP they assigned ownership to threads.
Maybe she would like a moderated one where nobody could post in it but her and those few that agree with her. Please don't tell me that she never expected any challenges or debates by posting a political topic. The thread is about Ted Cruz, not Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival"
If a thread was titled "Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival" then anyone who wanted to post in it could and those that don't could stay away. It wouldn't cause as much animosity among people. JMO

disclaimer: I am not making fun of you or your faith, CB.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:lol:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> I wasn't aware that in the rules of KP they assigned ownership to threads.
> Maybe she would like a moderated one where nobody could post in it but her and those few that agree with her. Please don't tell me that she never expected any challenges or debates by posting a political thread. The thread is about Ted Cruz, not Jesus Christ.
> If a thread was titled "Jesus Christ" then anyone who wanted to post in it could and those that don't could stay away. It wouldn't cause as much animosity among people. JMO


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :lol:


I like that "One Truth Many Songs" meme, Cheeky.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> I wasn't aware that in the rules of KP they assigned ownership to threads.
> Maybe she would like a moderated one where nobody could post in it but her and those few that agree with her. Please don't tell me that she never expected any challenges or debates by posting a political topic. The thread is about Ted Cruz, not Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival"
> If a thread was titled "Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival" then anyone who wanted to post in it could and those that don't could stay away. It wouldn't cause as much animosity among people. JMO


They won't say it but they want a theocracy. I don't live in the bible belt so leave your preaching at home.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

joeysomma said:


> There is "only one" true way! That is what the Bible states.
> 
> _Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me._ John 14:6 (NKJV)
> 
> There is only one true Christianity, those that believe in the Bible and follow it's teachings.


Well Christianity isn't the only religion. If you think you are the only ones going to heaven you are in for a big surprise. People who condemn others better be wary. Judge not lest you be judged.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> I like that "One Truth Many Songs" meme, Cheeky.


Thanks, Patty. Just a little reminder to some who need reminding.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Patty. Just a little reminder to some who need reminding.


----------



## Designer1234

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Well Christianity isn't the only religion. If you think you are the only ones going to heaven you are in for a big surprise. People who condemn others better be wary. Judge not lest you be judged.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> There is "only one" true way! That is what the Bible states.
> 
> _Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me._ John 14:6 (NKJV)
> 
> There is only one true Christianity, those that believe in the Bible and follow i
> t's teachings.


The Bible also says that one can be put to death for wearing 2 different threads of a fabric together.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> The Bible also says that one can be put to death for wearing 2 different threads in a fabric.


I am sure she won't have an answer for that one. Convenient to be able to shop around in the holy book and believe what you like and ignore the rest.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

I imagine I need to go to bed, friends. Hope to see you tomorrow.
It's been fun.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I imagine I need to go to bed, friends. Hope to see you tomorrow.
> It's been fun.


Same here, Cheeky. Sweet Dreams!


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty
that ugly puss needs to be on a Billboard. And folks made fun of Rick Perry's Glasses, this Dude is down right ugly.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> The Bible also says that one can be put to death for wearing 2 different threads of a fabric together.


Bratty Patty
oh my, am I in trouble now, I put as many as 5 together. Wait, I miscounted, there are more than 5. I guess the Devil made me do it.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :lol:


Cheeky Blighter
One Truth - Many Songs - looks more pleasant than if there were guys only.


----------



## SQM

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> oh my, am I in trouble now, I put as many as 5 together. Wait, I miscounted, there are more than 5. I guess the Devil made me do it.


I think the prohibition is against weaving wool and linen together. Maybe something about animal and vegetable, but our Hebrew Bible maven, PP, can explain more. Otherwise, it is nonsensical and very bronze age.


----------



## west coast kitty

Country Bumpkins said:


> How many times do I have to tell you I am not the Judge? I am the messenger.


CB you've sure had to put up with a lot of judgmental hypocrisy today. You've been accused of being judgmental for quoting scripture and replying to comments, but those who accuse you are being judgmental by reading more into your posts than you said.

You have always made it clear that God alone has the power to judge, but you are a faithful servant who shares His message. Others on these threads have claimed the right to judge who is a "good" Christian and have been very vocal in their condemnation.

You've been criticized for bringing scripture to someone's "doorstep" in the same post that claims this is a public forum, open to everyone to post their views. Hypocrisy on their part when they try to muzzle you while claiming the freedom to say whatever they want. I'm surprised they haven't tripped over their tongues when they're so busy talking out of both sides of their mouth.


----------



## BrattyPatty

SQM said:


> I think the prohibition is against weaving wool and linen together. Maybe something about animal and vegetable, but our Hebrew Bible maven, PP, can explain more. Otherwise, it is nonsensical and very bronze age.


It's still in the bible regardless of how silly it may be. Check out Exodus and Leviticus and you will find many odd things. 
A man may be stoned by the entire village for planting different crops side by side., A man can sell his daughter into slavery.........It goes on.


----------



## BrattyPatty

west coast kitty said:


> CB you've sure had to put up with a lot of judgmental hypocrisy today. You've been accused of being judgmental for quoting scripture and replying to comments, but those who accuse you are being judgmental by reading more into your posts than you said.
> 
> You have always made it clear that God alone has the power to judge, but you are a faithful servant who shares His message. Others on these threads have claimed the right to judge who is a "good" Christian and have been very vocal in their condemnation.
> 
> You've been criticized for bringing scripture to someone's "doorstep" in the same post that claims this is a public forum, open to everyone to post their views. Hypocrisy on their part when they try to muzzle you while claiming the freedom to say whatever they want. I'm surprised they haven't tripped over their tongues when they're so busy talking out of both sides of their mouth.


It goes both ways WCK. If the Athiests ask someone to stop shoving the bible in their faces because they don't believe, then it should stop right there. I have seem some hypocritical remarks coming from your side as well. It is up to God and God only to decide who goes up or down. Not the messengers.


----------



## Wombatnomore

SQM said:


> Clearly you are cooler than I am. Gaga was great on the Oscars. Her shtick was becoming old.
> 
> I love gray blunt cuts but I could not even pay attention to her song I was so fascinated by that long face covering hair. I am not smart at attaching pics. Can you find one that shows her latest look?


Surely can!


----------



## Wombatnomore

SQM said:


> I no longer listen to music.


I only listen to what instills in me a pang of nostalgia or inspiration and that is a whole lot of music. So, something may set me off and I'll go straight to YouTube and seek the song out. Such fun only it eats up my internet allowance. Must do something about that!


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> _Bang!_
> 
> (sound of a door slamming. And if that doesn't drive the newest proselytizer back to the sidewalk I'll release the hounds. My tolerance for this sort of thing dropped to zero when I saw who now was holding out the tracts)


 :XD: When you write the word 'tracts,' I can't help thinking about some parts of the human anatomy!

Anyway, according to the Daily Mail, by 2050 Islam will be the 2nd largest religion in the U.S.A., and whereas there are 3/4 of Americans who are Christian now, by 2050 there will only be 2/3rds.


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> I am glad I missed the tent revival.


 :XD:  :XD:  :XD: :XD: :XD: Brat, I love your avatar! So you! (Not at all)!


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> The Bible also says that one can be put to death for wearing 2 different threads of a fabric together.


...and going cross-eyed while blowing a raspberry while hanging upside down from a flag pole pitched from the side of the Chrysler Building at midnight!

Where for art thou Romeo?


----------



## damemary

Ashamed to say I've never tried sushi. I'm usually adventurous when it comes to food. Love to meet you for lunch sometime. Keep in touch.



sumpleby said:


> Hi Damemary! Hope your day was as good as mine was--went out for a sushi lunch. Yum!
> 
> KPG, you are getting boring. Ignore the facts all you want, no skin off my nose.


----------



## damemary

I don't listen to music much either.



SQM said:


> I no longer listen to music.


----------



## damemary

cookiequeen said:


> I think there are many, many people (some here on KP) who knowingly spout continuous lies, believe them, and encourage others to believe them, too. I won't name names.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: You always speak the truth, Cookie.


----------



## damemary

Glad to meet you. Welcome.



jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


----------



## damemary

Wonderful idea. How about LOLL or Successes of President Obama? This place reminds me of d&p and I cannot abide that.



SQM said:


> I suggest we dump this thread and leave it to KGB. There are more playgrounds in the park.


----------



## damemary

They don't know the terminology, much less the concepts and what they mean. Mixing in a page or two of bible quotes is no substitute.



NJG said:


> Ever notice how they ramble on and on and try to sound so intelligent and knowledgeable, but in reality, they really don't say anything, especially KPG.


----------



## damemary

Well put, Patty.



BrattyPatty said:


> I wasn't aware that in the rules of KP they assigned ownership to threads.
> Maybe she would like a moderated one where nobody could post in it but her and those few that agree with her. Please don't tell me that she never expected any challenges or debates by posting a political topic. The thread is about Ted Cruz, not Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival"
> If a thread was titled "Jesus Christ" or "The Bible Revival" then anyone who wanted to post in it could and those that don't could stay away. It wouldn't cause as much animosity among people. JMO
> 
> disclaimer: I am not making fun of you or your faith, CB.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I don't agree that a growth of 2% or less a substantially improved economy. What jobs are available have been part time and lower income, thus not substantially improving the economy. Keep an eye on the housing market, there has been talk of once again lowering the requirements to get a mortgage. The only thing that has gone up is the stock market.


What is it with the gang I call the Liar Lib Gang that they cannot understand the economy and how it operates?

Sumpleby brought up points, made incorrect statements about each that can be refuted with the facts which abound; I responded with brief factual answers to each and so she ran.

I wouldn't bring up a topic for discussion I didn't know much about and then run because I couldn't discuss the topics.

I get a kick from them attempting to enter the conversation when all they can say are one-liners and talking points from their biased sources.

What world do they live in anyway? :-D


----------



## damemary

Patty, you are on a roll. Strike the New Testament. Forget all that hymn business and sing 'MY WAY.'


----------



## damemary

Don't they call it a Cafeteria Christian?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am sure she won't have an answer for that one. Convenient to be able to shop around in the holy book and believe what you like and ignore the rest.


----------



## damemary

Yeah but that Dude has major ugly to work with. A nose job at least!



Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> that ugly puss needs to be on a Billboard. And folks made fun of Rick Perry's Glasses, this Dude is down right ugly.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> It's all in her head. She can be anything she wants to be, all her voices tell her so. Now, aren't they supportive?


Love it! I remember from reading her posts a couple of years ago she:

didn't like the water, but went on a cruise and even bought an island

grew up in Germany, the Black Forest, but never lived there

she is German but really only a Jew

she buried her young Whippersnapper of a husband, in Europe, but then when mourning in Europe, raised him from the dead, (mindful she doesn't believe in organized religion or such fairy tales), got on a plane back to live with him in her Community Living Center in MO and loves playing footsie with him

she and he each have a computer but needs to wait for her turn to use a computer (that community sharing is rough)

she used to be into organized religion, but isn't, but wrote the Bible anyway but know diddly about the Bible

she's an artist, but takes other's works and dabs some glitter on them and calls them her original art

she was always a Republican but now a Lib except she doesn't vote or know what either party stands for

I could repeat so many stories but I'd kill myself in laughter trying to remember them all. I had to stop reading her nonsense so I didn't confuse her with a rational human being.

She is the most confused and screwed up person I've ever encountered.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

jmf6406 said:


> This is a very entertaining thread. I'm pretty sure the Conservatives and Liberals are NOT going to change each others' minds. I'm a flaming liberal myself (took one of those online quizzes and rated to the LEFT of President Obama) but I don't bother arguing with those who have already made up their minds. However, if there is someone who has not made up their mind, I will provide them with facts. And there are many people who find great comfort in their fundamentalist religious beliefs, so let them do their thing. The only problem I have is when one group tries to ram their beliefs down everyone else's throats and enact laws that support their own special brand of religion.


Yes, if you're reading all the posts, I'm sure you've gotten entertained. There are some real crazy posters on KP. It's fun, isn't it? :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> There is always climate change. It changes every day, week, month and year. DUH!!!!!


Come on Solo, you know the Libs got it wrong and the scientists proved them wrong when they all 'invented it' and dubbed it "global warming" so naturally (ironic) they had to redefine the term to "climate change."

Like no one knew about climate change until we were told by a Lib. Next up - they'll want to tax it and regulate it.

:-D  :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable now because I told you. Choice this day whom you serve.


She made her choice long ago, again and again, too, as I remember it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I'm sure your typo should have read NJG.


We all know NJG cannot write a post without hatred unless she is responding to a Dem. She can only repeat ad nauseam how evil, stupid and how only the Repubs are and place all, I mean ALL, the blame for the problems of the world on them.

I doubt she could carry on a conversation in-person with a Repub without hyperventilating.

When one has no knowledge about which you spew, you really need to stop talking.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are accountable too.
> I put the Word of God up. I am not the Judge . Why, if you are a Christian are you upset?


Any Christian believer knowledgeable of her faith would recognize you spoke the words of The Bible and wouldn't judge you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> I stand on the Word only. Amen.
> You are accountable now. No excuses.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is the same.
> Remember I am just talking to you. You keep bringing me back into the conversation.
> When you stop talking to me I will stop talking to you.


Oh, boy, she's gone and done it again.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love it! I remember from reading her posts a couple of years ago she:
> 
> didn't like the water, but went on a cruise and even bought an island
> 
> grew up in Germany, the Black Forest, but never lived there
> 
> she is German but really only a Jew
> 
> she buried her young Whippersnapper of a husband, in Europe, but then when mourning in Europe, raised him from the dead, (mindful she doesn't believe in organized religion or such fairy tales), got on a plane back to live with him in her Community Living Center in MO and loves playing footsie with him
> 
> she and he each have a computer but needs to wait for her turn to use a computer
> 
> she used to be into organized religion, but isn't, but wrote the Bible anyway
> 
> she's an artist, but takes other's works and dabs some glitter on them and calls them her original art
> 
> she was always a Republican but now a Lib except she doesn't vote or know what either party stands for
> 
> I could repeat so many stories but I'd kill myself in laughter trying to remember them all. I had to stop reading her nonsense so I didn't confuse her with a rational human being.
> 
> She is the most confused and screwed up person I've ever encountered.


Beside yourself?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> See you asked me a question.


 :-D  :XD: This ought to be good ...


----------



## BrattyPatty

damemary said:


> Wonderful idea. How about LOLL or Successes of President Obama? This place reminds me of d&p and I cannot abide that.


Great idea. We'll just let the lying KPG keep on talking to herself and looking like a fool while doing it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> This is KPG's thread she agrees with me. Maybe our tent is in the right place. :shock:


You bet I agree with you Sister! When you speak the Word of God, I'll stand tall with you.

I'm confident that my thread, our tent, can hold the masses - let them all in!

Praise be to God and Amen!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> There is "only one" true way! That is what the Bible states.
> 
> _Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me._ John 14:6 (NKJV)
> 
> There is only one true Christianity, those that believe in the Bible and follow it's teachings.


Amen! Thanks Joey. I haven't read why my thread turned to God, but I'm not complaining.

btw; since Rand Paul announced his run for the Presidency recently I'd like to comment.

I must say I cannot imagine Rand as the next President. He is too weak or opposed to my beliefs on the primary principles for me; amnesty, legalizing pot, foreign policy, military intervention. I'm not certain about his beliefs on abortion, gay marriage, equal representation, size of govt, etc. but I know enough that I'd rather support another candidate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

west coast kitty said:


> CB you've sure had to put up with a lot of judgmental hypocrisy today. You've been accused of being judgmental for quoting scripture and replying to comments, but those who accuse you are being judgmental by reading more into your posts than you said.
> 
> You have always made it clear that God alone has the power to judge, but you are a faithful servant who shares His message. Others on these threads have claimed the right to judge who is a "good" Christian and have been very vocal in their condemnation.
> 
> You've been criticized for bringing scripture to someone's "doorstep" in the same post that claims this is a public forum, open to everyone to post their views. Hypocrisy on their part when they try to muzzle you while claiming the freedom to say whatever they want. I'm surprised they haven't tripped over their tongues when they're so busy talking out of both sides of their mouth.


 :thumbup: It usually boils down to the same thing, again and again with that Gang; ignorance in their understanding of the topic at hand and the facts and their desperate desire to slam another because of that ignorance and lack of understanding and/or lack of tolerance to an opposing opinion.


----------



## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Great idea. We'll just let the lying KPG keep on talking to herself and looking like a fool while doing it.


I agree, Patty. Between the far-right politics and the proselytizing this thread has turned into a freak show--the only things missing are the spiritual snake handlers and their baskets full of cobras. But perhaps the masses can make do with the serpents growing out of KPG's head and CB's futile efforts to tame them.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love it! I remember from reading her posts a couple of years ago she:
> 
> didn't like the water, but went on a cruise and even bought an island
> 
> grew up in Germany, the Black Forest, but never lived there
> 
> she is German but really only a Jew
> 
> she buried her young Whippersnapper of a husband, in Europe, but then when mourning in Europe, raised him from the dead, (mindful she doesn't believe in organized religion or such fairy tales), got on a plane back to live with him in her Community Living Center in MO and loves playing footsie with him
> 
> she and he each have a computer but needs to wait for her turn to use a computer (that community sharing is rough)
> 
> she used to be into organized religion, but isn't, but wrote the Bible anyway but know diddly about the Bible
> 
> she's an artist, but takes other's works and dabs some glitter on them and calls them her original art
> 
> she was always a Republican but now a Lib except she doesn't vote or know what either party stands for
> 
> I could repeat so many stories but I'd kill myself in laughter trying to remember them all. I had to stop reading her nonsense so I didn't confuse her with a rational human being.
> 
> She is the most confused and screwed up person I've ever encountered.


knitpresentgifts
we have known all along that you are tuity fruity but you did not have to confirm it. I am so very happy that my being a Jew really bothers you. I am not "only" a Jew but a proud one. Try to get at least that right. So sorry that your business is so poor that you have to keep yourself busy with comic relief. Have a fun day. And by the way don't forget to take your meds Tootsie.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> What is it with the gang I call the Liar Lib Gang that they cannot understand the economy and how it operates?
> 
> Sumpleby brought up points, made incorrect statements about each that can be refuted with the facts which abound; I responded with brief factual answers to each and so she ran.
> 
> I wouldn't bring up a topic for discussion I didn't know much about and then run because I couldn't discuss the topics.
> 
> I get a kick from them attempting to enter the conversation when all they can say are one-liners and talking points from their biased sources.
> 
> What world do they live in anyway? :-D


knitpresentgifts
glad you are so impressed with your nutty self. Go hang out with your buddies and cream cheese. That is more your
level. Oh I forgot you started this thread trying to impress but failed miserably.


----------



## cookiequeen

I


knitpresentgifts said:


> Amen! Thanks Joey. I haven't read why my thread turned to God, but I'm not complaining.
> 
> btw; since Rand Paul announced his run for the Presidency recently I'd like to comment.
> 
> I must say I cannot imagine Rand as the next President. He is too weak or opposed to my beliefs on the primary principles for me; amnesty, legalizing pot, foreign policy, military intervention. I'm not certain about his beliefs on abortion, gay marriage, equal representation, size of govt, etc. but I know enough that I'd rather support another candidate.


Hmmm . . .her primary principles . . . .amnesty, legalizing pot, and he is too weak.


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> You bet I agree with you Sister! When you speak the Word of God, I'll stand tall with you.
> 
> I'm confident that my thread, our tent, can hold the masses - let them all in!
> 
> Praise be to God and Amen!


Yay for her! She owns a thread!


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> What is it with the gang I call the Liar Lib Gang that they cannot understand the economy and how it operates?
> 
> Sumpleby brought up points, made incorrect statements about each that can be refuted with the facts which abound; I responded with brief factual answers to each and so she ran.
> 
> I wouldn't bring up a topic for discussion I didn't know much about and then run because I couldn't discuss the topics.
> 
> I get a kick from them attempting to enter the conversation when all they can say are one-liners and talking points from their biased sources.
> 
> What world do they live in anyway? :-D


Some of us live in the REAL world, not one we've created, like,yours.


----------



## Huckleberry

Folks, KPG is trying Comedy and is abandoning Religion. See what that will do for her. Poor Tootsie.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: It usually boils down to the same thing, again and again with that Gang; ignorance in their understanding of the topic at hand and the facts and their desperate desire to slam another because of that ignorance and lack of understanding and/or lack of tolerance to an opposing opinion.


knitpresentgifts
try to catch your breath Tootsie.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

west coast kitty said:


> CB you've sure had to put up with a lot of judgmental hypocrisy today. You've been accused of being judgmental for quoting scripture and replying to comments, but those who accuse you are being judgmental by reading more into your posts than you said.
> 
> You have always made it clear that God alone has the power to judge, but you are a faithful servant who shares His message. Others on these threads have claimed the right to judge who is a "good" Christian and have been very vocal in their condemnation.
> 
> You've been criticized for bringing scripture to someone's "doorstep" in the same post that claims this is a public forum, open to everyone to post their views. Hypocrisy on their part when they try to muzzle you while claiming the freedom to say whatever they want. I'm surprised they haven't tripped over their tongues when they're so busy talking out of both sides of their mouth.


Thanks WCK. They don't know it is my only concern for them.


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> we have known all along that you are tuity fruity but you did not have to confirm it. I am so very happy that my being a Jew really bothers you. I am not "only" a Jew but a proud one. Try to get at least that right. So sorry that your business is so poor that you have to keep yourself busy with comic relief. Have a fun day. And by the way don't forget to take your meds Tootsie.


She shows her true self by calling you "ONLY' a JEW" 
amazing how much she has read her own posts as she is quoting her own attacks against you. Every little while her true colors show as it is so much part of her she cant really pretend she is anything different.

I don't know much about Rand Paul, but he has gone up in my estimation as she doesn't think she can accept him. Does that mean that some Conservatives are not as close minded as the D and P people? I will have to read more about him.

She says she doesn't go back and look for things about us. But then proceeds to ridicule everything that we have talked about but usually twisting everything so we are insulted deliberately. weird indeed. I read her post again, and obviously she has gone way way back. I wonder if she keeps a book with everyone of our posts. It must take a lot of her time and a sick weird interest for her to go to all that trouble and 
take the time to twist everything she reads.

See you on LOLL. I am out of here.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> You bet I agree with you Sister! When you speak the Word of God, I'll stand tall with you.
> 
> I'm confident that my thread, our tent, can hold the masses - let them all in!
> 
> Praise be to God and Amen!


knitpresentgifts
"don't use my name in vain".


----------



## Huckleberry

Designer1234 said:


> She shows her true self by calling you "ONLY' a JEW"
> amazing how much she has read her own posts as she is quoting her own attacks against you. every little while her true colors show as it is so much part of her she cant really pretend she is anything different. See you on LOLL. I am out of here. I don't know much about Rand Paul, but he has gone up in my estimation as she doesn't think she can accept him. Does that mean that some Conservatives are not as close minded as the D and P people? I will have to read more about him.
> 
> Designer1234
> some little thing like her can never insult me. I like her "recalls", they expose her. Waiting for her to again call newcomers to be someone else. What a mess this Tootsie is.


----------



## Poor Purl

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> we have known all along that you are tuity fruity but you did not have to confirm it. I am so very happy that my being a Jew really bothers you. I am not "only" a Jew but a proud one. Try to get at least that right. So sorry that your business is so poor that you have to keep yourself busy with comic relief. Have a fun day. And by the way don't forget to take your meds Tootsie.


But there's no such thing as "only a Jew," since, according to KPG, Jews are all White Supremacists. So surprise, Huck, you're a White Supremacist and didn't know it.


----------



## Poor Purl

cookiequeen said:


> Yay for her! She owns a thread!


Think of all the tangles it can get into.

Also, the Minotaur comes to mind. The Minotaur was "part [wo]man and part bull." Mostly bull, in this case.


----------



## SQM

Wombatnomore said:


> Surely can!


Thanks. Loved the pic. I will use it as my inspiration to grow out my hair.


----------



## Huckleberry

Poor Purl said:


> But there's no such thing as "only a Jew," since, according to KPG, Jews are all White Supremacists. So surprise, Huck, you're a White Supremacist and didn't know it.


Poor Purl
I am learning more and more about myself through this Tootsie. Just think what it must be like to live with a Nut like her. Perhaps she is occupying a rubber room already and voices are her companions. Too bad her writings are not funny enough to make them into a paper back. So, let's enjoy her bad theatrics for now.


----------



## Jokim

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd be happy to have Trey be Attorney General under a Ted Cruz/Scott Walker administration.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh* I think it's a bit more complicated than that, CB. There are millions and millions of people on Earth today who've never had access to a Christian Bible or heard a missionary speak, and millions upon millions in the past (thinking in particular of the Americas before the Europeans arrived) who missed the boat as well. No one is ever going to convince that He threw them into the fiery pit simply because they happened to be born in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Pope Benedict says, in the introduction to the current Catholic Catechism, that Jesus died to redeem the entire cosmos. I rather like that. Do the stars have to say they accept Jesus as their Redeemer?


----------



## MaidInBedlam

Double post.


----------



## Designer1234

Poor Purl said:


> But there's no such thing as "only a Jew," since, according to KPG, Jews are all White Supremacists. So surprise, Huck, you're a White Supremacist and didn't know it.


I guess we all are then, because we are all on much the same page with much the same feelings - I guess I agree Huck, she does show who she is and it is not pretty, it is like a record that has gotten stuck if any of you remember what that sounds like.

Anyway I am out of here . Have some errands to run. It is a lovely spring day here and the flowers are blooming and the sky is bright blue - the flowering shrubs are showing their wonderful colours and blossoms.

See you later on LOLL. I am out of here.


----------



## Poor Purl

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I am learning more and more about myself through this Tootsie. Just think what it must be like to live with a Nut like her. Perhaps she is occupying a rubber room already and voices are her companions. Too bad her writings are not funny enough to make them into a paper back. So, let's enjoy her bad theatrics for now.


Much as I believe that mental illness is no joke, it's pretty funny in this case. But I think Unwatch, or at least Ignore, is called for.


----------



## theyarnlady

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thanks WCK. They don't know it is my only concern for them.


I do not think CB and WCK that any have read the Bible completely.

All I can say is God opens the door and we chose either to open it or close it. He gave us all a free will. He loves us all, some chose not to follow him that is their right. But they can not then stand before him and say I did not know. Your words where from his words and what he said. You did not hide your faith under a bushel basket, but let his words shine through.

You where not judging anyone. You were telling his truth from his words in the Bible. They may asail you, but his words will not come back void.

But what you have said is true CB, they were not your words but his from his word. It has not change through the ages, if it had it would not still be here.

I can not judge anyone, but I can as you did share the truth.

Neither his coming to Jerusalem in judgment(A.D.70) nor the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost; nor our going to him in death; none of these can exhaust the meaning of Jesus Words as to his coming again.


----------



## MaidInBedlam

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> we have known all along that you are tuity fruity but you did not have to confirm it. I am so very happy that my being a Jew really bothers you. I am not "only" a Jew but a proud one. Try to get at least that right. So sorry that your business is so poor that you have to keep yourself busy with comic relief. Have a fun day. And by the way don't forget to take your meds Tootsie.


KPG isn't the only tuity fruity one around here. Catching up with this topic this AM, I realized I wish there were a lot more Jews and Hindus in this world. As I understand it, this makes me a lousy Christian...


----------



## west coast kitty

BrattyPatty said:


> It goes both ways WCK. If the Athiests ask someone to stop shoving the bible in their faces because they don't believe, then it should stop right there. I have seem some hypocritical remarks coming from your side as well. It is up to God and God only to decide who goes up or down. Not the messengers.


It does go both ways BP. This isn't a private doorstep. If an atheist (or anyone else) comments, mocks or denounces Christianity (or any other religion) they have no grounds to complain when a Christian poster defends their faith.

CB has always said that only God is the Judge - she hasn't taken that authority on herself. If someone wants to discuss the context or content of her posts, that is quite different from accusing her of being judgmental. If someone feels judged then maybe they are judging themselves.


----------



## Huckleberry

Poor Purl said:


> Much as I believe that mental illness is no joke, it's pretty funny in this case. But I think Unwatch, or at least Ignore, is called for.


Poor Purl
you are right, mental illness is no joke so perhaps a different title needs to be found for her shortcomings. For now I am devouring a Bagel with Lox in my Park by bright Sunshine and Birds singing up a Storm. They all have built Nests and some are even trying to come in through the Range Hood Exhaust opening. One is sitting in front of it serenading. It's a lovely day in the neighborhood.


----------



## Gerslay

Poor Purl said:


> But there's no such thing as "only a Jew," since, according to KPG, Jews are all White Supremacists. So surprise, Huck, you're a White Supremacist and didn't know it.


Ooops, Purl, there you go again. Neither KPG nor anyone else ever said that all Jews are White Supremacists. Is your argument so weak that you have to distort the truth in order to make a point?

Just keepin it honest!


----------



## Huckleberry

Designer1234 said:


> She shows her true self by calling you "ONLY' a JEW"
> amazing how much she has read her own posts as she is quoting her own attacks against you. Every little while her true colors show as it is so much part of her she cant really pretend she is anything different.
> 
> I don't know much about Rand Paul, but he has gone up in my estimation as she doesn't think she can accept him. Does that mean that some Conservatives are not as close minded as the D and P people? I will have to read more about him.
> 
> Designer1234
> Only a non-Christian would call me that. After all, Jesus was a Jew. "INRI = Jesus of Nazareth the King of Jews".
> 
> She says she doesn't go back and look for things about us. But then proceeds to ridicule everything that we have talked about but usually twisting everything so we are insulted deliberately. weird indeed. I read her post again, and obviously she has gone way way back. I wonder if she keeps a book with everyone of our posts. It must take a lot of her time and a sick weird interest for her to go to all that trouble and
> take the time to twist everything she reads.
> 
> See you on LOLL. I am out of here.


----------



## Huckleberry

west coast kitty said:


> It does go both ways BP. This isn't a private doorstep. If an atheist (or anyone else) comments, mocks or denounces Christianity (or any other religion) they have no grounds to complain when a Christian poster defends their faith.
> 
> CB has always said that only God is the Judge - she hasn't taken that authority on herself. If someone wants to discuss the context or content of her posts, that is quite different from accusing her of being judgmental. If someone feels judged then maybe they are judging themselves.


west coast kitty
I am glad you said: "...or any other Religion". Missed KPG calling me "only" a Jew I guess. Well, I am in good company since Jesus was a Jew. INRI = "Jesus of Nazareth the King of Jews". Thank you M'am.


----------



## soloweygirl

west coast kitty said:


> CB you've sure had to put up with a lot of judgmental hypocrisy today. You've been accused of being judgmental for quoting scripture and replying to comments, but those who accuse you are being judgmental by reading more into your posts than you said.
> 
> You have always made it clear that God alone has the power to judge, but you are a faithful servant who shares His message. Others on these threads have claimed the right to judge who is a "good" Christian and have been very vocal in their condemnation.
> 
> You've been criticized for bringing scripture to someone's "doorstep" in the same post that claims this is a public forum, open to everyone to post their views. Hypocrisy on their part when they try to muzzle you while claiming the freedom to say whatever they want. I'm surprised they haven't tripped over their tongues when they're so busy talking out of both sides of their mouth.


Well said WCK. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl

damemary said:


> Wonderful idea. How about LOLL or Successes of President Obama? This place reminds me of d&p and I cannot abide that.


Then why are you always around? You are nothing but a hypocrite. As soon as you and your BFF's saw that KPG started the thread, you tripped over yourselves to get here. Cut the nonsense.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> What is it with the gang I call the Liar Lib Gang that they cannot understand the economy and how it operates?
> 
> Sumpleby brought up points, made incorrect statements about each that can be refuted with the facts which abound; I responded with brief factual answers to each and so she ran.
> 
> I wouldn't bring up a topic for discussion I didn't know much about and then run because I couldn't discuss the topics.
> 
> I get a kick from them attempting to enter the conversation when all they can say are one-liners and talking points from their biased sources.
> 
> What world do they live in anyway? :-D


Instead of listening to the talking points of the day, they should learn about business. it's obvious they live in the world of the low information liberals/Democrats. If their info doesn't come in short bursts, their brains can't handle the onslaught.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love it! I remember from reading her posts a couple of years ago she:
> 
> didn't like the water, but went on a cruise and even bought an island
> 
> grew up in Germany, the Black Forest, but never lived there
> 
> she is German but really only a Jew
> 
> she buried her young Whippersnapper of a husband, in Europe, but then when mourning in Europe, raised him from the dead, (mindful she doesn't believe in organized religion or such fairy tales), got on a plane back to live with him in her Community Living Center in MO and loves playing footsie with him
> 
> she and he each have a computer but needs to wait for her turn to use a computer (that community sharing is rough)
> 
> she used to be into organized religion, but isn't, but wrote the Bible anyway but know diddly about the Bible
> 
> she's an artist, but takes other's works and dabs some glitter on them and calls them her original art
> 
> she was always a Republican but now a Lib except she doesn't vote or know what either party stands for
> 
> I could repeat so many stories but I'd kill myself in laughter trying to remember them all. I had to stop reading her nonsense so I didn't confuse her with a rational human being.
> 
> She is the most confused and screwed up person I've ever encountered.


Thanks for the trip down memory lane, my little gray cells refused to retain that information. Killing yourself in laughter must be similar to dying from laughter after reading the Successes of President Obama thread.


----------



## soloweygirl

BrattyPatty said:


> Great idea. We'll just let the lying KPG keep on talking to herself and looking like a fool while doing it.


FYI, you and your BFF's are still here. So if there are fools around, look no further than each other.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Amen! Thanks Joey. I haven't read why my thread turned to God, but I'm not complaining.
> 
> btw; since Rand Paul announced his run for the Presidency recently I'd like to comment.
> 
> I must say I cannot imagine Rand as the next President. He is too weak or opposed to my beliefs on the primary principles for me; amnesty, legalizing pot, foreign policy, military intervention. I'm not certain about his beliefs on abortion, gay marriage, equal representation, size of govt, etc. but I know enough that I'd rather support another candidate.


Rand Paul has a definite following of a broad base of young people. The Republican party does need new blood and Rand Paul can bring them over. I think the Republican Party needs to be less rigid and open to new people. I think many vote Democrat, not because they like the party more, but because they can't identify with the Republicans as the party stands today.


----------



## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> we have known all along that you are tuity fruity but you did not have to confirm it. I am so very happy that my being a Jew really bothers you. I am not "only" a Jew but a proud one. Try to get at least that right. So sorry that your business is so poor that you have to keep yourself busy with comic relief. Have a fun day. And by the way don't forget to take your meds Tootsie.


You're so proud to be a Jew that one of your "friends" had to out you. How do you expect KPG to get it right, when you can't?


----------



## soloweygirl

Designer1234 said:


> See you on LOLL. I am out of here.


If only we could believe that.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> You're so proud to be a Jew that one of your "friends" had to out you. How do you expect KPG to get it right, when you can't?


soloweygirl
I am VERY proud being a Jew. Glad not to belong to your kind of believers - fake as I see most of you folks. Well as to KPG getting it right, that is the joke of the century. She gets practically nothing right. She needs to stick with cream cheese, that is about her speed.


----------



## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Rand Paul has a definite following of a broad base of young people. The Republican party does need new blood and Rand Paul can bring them over. I think the Republican Party needs to be less rigid and open to new people. I think many vote Democrat, not because they like the party more, but because they can't identify with the Republicans as the party stands today.


soloweygirl
oh my, someone is beginning to see the light. Am I reading right? Republicans are out of the loop, that is for sure.


----------



## Poor Purl

Gerslay said:


> Ooops, Purl, there you go again. Neither KPG nor anyone else ever said that all Jews are White Supremacists. Is your argument so weak that you have to distort the truth in order to make a point?
> 
> Just keepin it honest!


I'm pretty sure that KPG, and she alone, did say that Jews were White Supremacists (I think, given the context, that would mean all Jews, though maybe it just means most). She certainly declared that the nasty White Supremacist, anti-Semitic website I discovered was run by Jews (who called themselves grubby and pictured themselves with hooked noses? are we all that self-hating?). If I weren't busy preparing a Passover dinner for 12 (more than half of whom have turned-up noses), I might look it up. (Would you like to be our 13th? Wasn't that Judas, way back when?)

You are leaning on a broken reed, tryin to keep it honest but not very successfully.


----------



## Designer1234

soloweygirl said:


> Rand Paul has a definite following of a broad base of young people. The Republican party does need new blood and Rand Paul can bring them over. I think the Republican Party needs to be less rigid and open to new people. I think many vote Democrat, not because they like the party more, but because they can't identify with the Republicans as the party stands today.


WOW! the first word of good sense that I can remember.


----------



## Poor Purl

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you are right, mental illness is no joke so perhaps a different title needs to be found for her shortcomings. For now I am devouring a Bagel with Lox in my Park by bright Sunshine and Birds singing up a Storm. They all have built Nests and some are even trying to come in through the Range Hood Exhaust opening. One is sitting in front of it serenading. It's a lovely day in the neighborhood.


Sounds delightful (though I have to wait until Sunday for the bagel - matzoh and lox is not so mouthwatering. I've been hearing birds having long conversations outside a window where an air conditioner sits. I hope they're not building a nest there.


----------



## Designer1234

soloweygirl said:


> If only we could believe that.


Maybe I'll change my mind -- it is quite possible. don't worry about it.


----------



## Designer1234

soloweygirl said:


> Then why are you always around? You are nothing but a hypocrite. As soon as you and your BFF's saw that KPG started the thread, you tripped over yourselves to get here. Cut the nonsense.


nasty, nasty.


----------



## Designer1234

soloweygirl said:


> Then why are you always around? You are nothing but a hypocrite. As soon as you and your BFF's saw that KPG started the thread, you tripped over yourselves to get here. Cut the nonsense.


she is about 99% less nasty than you or any of the others.


----------



## Designer1234

soloweygirl said:


> FYI, you and your BFF's are still here. So if there are fools around, look no further than each other.


keep it up and we will stay.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Poor Purl said:


> I'm pretty sure that KPG, and she alone, did say that Jews were White Supremacists (I think, given the context, that would mean all Jews, though maybe it just means most). She certainly declared that the nasty White Supremacist, anti-Semitic website I discovered was run by Jews (who called themselves grubby and pictured themselves with hooked noses? are we all that self-hating?). If I weren't busy preparing a Passover dinner for 12 (more than half of whom have turned-up noses), I might look it up. (Would you like to be our 13th? Wasn't that Judas, way back when?)
> 
> You are leaning on a broken reed, tryin to keep it honest but not very successfully.


I have *never* said you or *anyone* was a White Supremacist in my life. I have *never* said an Anti-Semitic statement in my life.

I DID tell you the website you said was a Christian site was owned by Jews or at least that is the claim of the disgusting website you bragged about on KP and declared it was based on Christian beliefs.

Both your disgusting, offensive and lying posts attempting to defame my name have been turned over to KP Admin and my attorney. You don't know what the truth is, perhaps they'll help you figure it out.

Maybe you should talk to your best friend, Vocal Lisa, and ask for advice on how to NOT get caught up in criminal activity on KP.


----------



## soloweygirl

Designer1234 said:


> Maybe I'll change my mind -- it is quite possible. don't worry about it.


I don't worry about anything you say. It's obvious you can't make up your mind about anything.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Poor Purl said:


> But there's no such thing as "only a Jew," since, according to KPG, Jews are all White Supremacists. So surprise, Huck, you're a White Supremacist and didn't know it.


The post by Poor Purl above has been reported to Admin.

It is a complete lie about me (KPG).


----------



## soloweygirl

Designer1234 said:


> she is about 99% less nasty than you or any of the others.


It's that 1% that you have to worry about.

This is really amusing coming from you. In another post you were berating the poster for not minding her business. Live by your own words.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

theyarnlady said:


> I do not think CB and WCK that any have read the Bible completely.
> 
> All I can say is God opens the door and we chose either to open it or close it. He gave us all a free will. He loves us all, some chose not to follow him that is their right. But they can not then stand before him and say I did not know. Your words where from his words and what he said. You did not hide your faith under a bushel basket, but let his words shine through.
> 
> You where not judging anyone. You were telling his truth from his words in the Bible. They may asail you, but his words will not come back void.
> 
> But what you have said is true CB, they were not your words but his from his word. It has not change through the ages, if it had it would not still be here.
> 
> I can not judge anyone, but I can as you did share the truth.
> 
> Neither his coming to Jerusalem in judgment(A.D.70) nor the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost; nor our going to him in death; none of these can exhaust the meaning of Jesus Words as to his coming again.


Well said, Yarnie. They don't understand the words of God, no wonder they deny Him and smear his teachings. We must not continue to cast our pearls before swine as we know they'll only be trampled beneath their feet. That's also what the Bible teaches us.


----------



## soloweygirl

Designer1234 said:


> keep it up and we will stay.


So what's new? You (collective) are all still here. Stay or leave, your threats are meaningless.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

west coast kitty said:


> It does go both ways BP. This isn't a private doorstep. If an atheist (or anyone else) comments, mocks or denounces Christianity (or any other religion) they have no grounds to complain when a Christian poster defends their faith.
> 
> CB has always said that only God is the Judge - she hasn't taken that authority on herself. If someone wants to discuss the context or content of her posts, that is quite different from accusing her of being judgmental. If someone feels judged then maybe they are judging themselves.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Gerslay said:


> Ooops, Purl, there you go again. Neither KPG nor anyone else ever said that all Jews are White Supremacists. Is your argument so weak that you have to distort the truth in order to make a point?
> 
> Just keepin it honest!


Who expects Poor Purl to speak the truth? I don't. Thanks for speaking the truth which actual is in my defense. I've never said anyone is a White Supremacist. In fact, until responding to her, back in ???? I had never even typed those words nor fully understood their meaning. (I believe I even stated same 'back then.')

All readers should know I've turned PoorPurl's disgusting post and lies about me into Admin.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Then why are you always around? You are nothing but a hypocrite. As soon as you and your BFF's saw that KPG started the thread, you tripped over yourselves to get here. Cut the nonsense.


I think they really must love me. I don't even respond to them but they love following me and writing stuff to or about me no matter where I go from what I can 'see'.

I'll admit I kinda miss the laughs, but life is so nice without reading or responding to all their stupidity. (time saver too)


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Instead of listening to the talking points of the day, they should learn about business. it's obvious they live in the world of the low information liberals/Democrats. If their info doesn't come in short bursts, their brains can't handle the onslaught.


I still don't understand. How can you go through life and not know or understand the world around you?

Most I assume are at least in their mid to late fifties or older. They had jobs, families, bought or rented homes, managed their finances, invested or not, traveled, heard some news and can see the obvious and must try to understand how the economy, housing market, unemployment rate, etc., all work like cogs in a wheel.

It blows my mind that they cannot write one paragraph of thoughts in a discussion style.

All I ever read were one or two sentences of copied/pasted or requoted talking points or another's opinion with nothing to support the OP's thoughts or opinions.

I just don't get it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Thanks for the trip down memory lane, my little gray cells refused to retain that information. Killing yourself in laughter must be similar to dying from laughter after reading the Successes of President Obama thread.


You're welcome! I didn't write all I remembered, but I do remember all those crazy stories she posted. I cannot take credit for the laughter - that was all written by Huck, not me.

You cannot make that stuff up! I used to laugh so much and heartily, I would stop my regular breathing. I often thought how funny I must look looking at a computer monitor and laughing until I cried.

Is the "successes" thread the one where Bratty Patty thought being told she was sheepish turned her into a sheep? Another KPer alerted me to a thread where I posted a couple of times, and yet again, laughed so much I cried. Maybe it was that thread?

I had to leave after another KPer told Bratty it was time to dust her nightstand (more enlightening). That comment did me in. I nearly cracked a rib over that one and haven't returned to read since. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Rand Paul has a definite following of a broad base of young people. The Republican party does need new blood and Rand Paul can bring them over. I think the Republican Party needs to be less rigid and open to new people. I think many vote Democrat, not because they like the party more, but because they can't identify with the Republicans as the party stands today.


I don't know enough about Rand but something is holding me back for supporting him presently. I don't know why, because when I hear him speak, I seem to be in agreement. Yet, I must have heard something in the past that makes me cautious of him.

At this point, I agree, the Repub Party needs new blood. Yet, Rand appeals to some of the Libertarian youth and those young adults and middle aged adults who want their privacy (NSA) and freedom of speech and less govt in their lives. (I do too.)

However, in comparisons, I believe Mark Rubio would appeal to many of the same people and would win a race over Rand for the Latino vote.

Huckabee would win the votes over Rand from the Evangelicals and people of strong faith.

Cruz, IMO, would win over Rand in all those categories, with perhaps a great number of Constitutional voters going for Cruz.

So, in my political estimation, Rand comes in second to any of those other candidates who I believe will run.

Walker probably beats Rand in all categories and appeals to the establishment voter most of all.

I presently do not like Jeb Bush, but I believe Rand will be second to Bush as well.

Like O'Reilly says, tell me where I'm going wrong? 

It's exciting to me to watch this primary season which is about to begin.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> You're so proud to be a Jew that one of your "friends" had to out you. How do you expect KPG to get it right, when you can't?


Good Point! I only repeated what she has posted.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I don't worry about anything you say. It's obvious you can't make up your mind about anything.


Did she say over and over and over again she'd leave but is still here? That's typical behavior and nothing new. So easy to ignore.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> It's that 1% that you have to worry about.
> 
> This is really amusing coming from you. In another post you were berating the poster for not minding her business. Live by your own words.


For her, impossible.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> So what's new? You (collective) are all still here. Stay or leave, your threats are meaningless.


Hey, don't knock em. They increase the thread page count and make the thread I began look all that more successful AND we can ignore 80% of all posts.

Win - Win for the good gals! :-D


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well said, Yarnie. They don't understand the words of God, no wonder they deny Him and smear his teachings. We must not continue to cast our pearls before the swine as we know they'll only be trampled beneath their feet. That's also what the Bible teaches us.


Jesus did not discriminate and accepted EVERYONE. It would be wise to remember some of the things you accuse others of. Words carry connotations, and the way you use yours have particular undertones of nastiness, even though you hope they seem innocuous on the surface. We all can tell that you think highly of yourself, but your words betray you. Perhaps you need to humble yourself and re-read what you post. We could all benefit from that---even you. There is a lot of talk about not judging others, but this little gem is oft forgotten. We can only see your character by your statements and words. In my opinion it isn't always a pretty picture. And if it seems that I'm judging you, so be it. You open yourself to that. I know some of you whippersnappers think some of us are doddering old people (and even make fun of old age) but we've learned a lot in our time on earth and in the life we've been living with whatever tragedies we've had to get through.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Solo, wait! It just dawned on me. The thread is "Successes of President Obama?"

What can possibly be posted with the one exception to say he successfully snowed the American people twice to get elected twice.

That takes one or two posts at the most.

Leave it to a KP Lib to start something that will fail right out of the gate.

What a riot!


----------



## Designer1234

cookiequeen said:


> Jesus did not discriminate and accepted EVERYONE. It would be wise to remember some of the things you accuse others of. Words carry connotations, and the way you use yours have particular undertones of nastiness, even though you hope they seem innocuous on the surface. We all can tell that you think highly of yourself, but your words betray you. Perhaps you need to humble yourself and re-read what you post. We could all benefit from that---even you. There is a lot of talk about not judging others, but this little gem is oft forgotten. We can only see your character by your statements and words. In my opinion it isn't always a pretty picture. And if it seems that I'm judging you, so be it. You open yourself to that. I know some of you whippersnappers think some of us are doddering old people (and even make fun of old age) but we've learned a lot in our time on earth and in the life we've been living with whatever tragedies we've had to get through.


I agree with everything you say. you put it better than I can.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

cookiequeen said:


> Jesus did not discriminate and accepted EVERYONE. It would be wise to remember some of the things you accuse others of. Words carry connotations, and the way you use yours have particular undertones of nastiness, even though you hope they seem innocuous on the surface. We all can tell that you think highly of yourself, but your words betray you. Perhaps you need to humble yourself and re-read what you post. We could all benefit from that---even you. There is a lot of talk about not judging others, but this little gem is oft forgotten. We can only see your character by your statements and words. In my opinion it isn't always a pretty picture. And if it seems that I'm judging you, so be it. You open yourself to that. I know some of you whippersnappers think some of us are doddering old people (and even make fun of old age) but we've learned a lot in our time on earth and in the life we've been living with whatever tragedies we've had to get through.


I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.

I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.

You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.

You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.

I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.

I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.

Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.

That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


----------



## cookiequeen

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.
> 
> I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.
> 
> You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.
> 
> I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
> 
> I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.
> 
> Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


And how dare you speak to me like that? Who do you think you are, anyway? If you think you wrote a polite reply, you're more obtuse than I thought. I don't really care what you think about me. If someone is as Christian as you say you are, s/he demonstrates humility, not arrogance, so don't ever profess your Christianity and then turn around and blast people. You give Christianity a bad name, and THAT'S what upsets me.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I still don't understand. How can you go through life and not know or understand the world around you?
> 
> Most I assume are at least in their mid to late fifties or older. They had jobs, families, bought or rented homes, managed their finances, invested or not, traveled, heard some news and can see the obvious and must try to understand how the economy, housing market, unemployment rate, etc., all work like cogs in a wheel.
> 
> It blows my mind that they cannot write one paragraph of thoughts in a discussion style.
> 
> All I ever read were one or two sentences of copied/pasted or requoted talking points or another's opinion with nothing to support the OP's thoughts or opinions.
> 
> I just don't get it.


knitpresentgifts
we know you don't get it and we know you don't understand. You keep making that perfectly clear on a regular basis. No reminder necessary.


----------



## Huckleberry

cookiequeen said:


> And how dare you speak to me like that? Who do you think you are, anyway? If you think you wrote a polite reply, you're more obtuse than I thought. I don't really care what you think about me. If someone is as Christian as you say you are, s/he demonstrates humility, not arrogance, so don't ever profess your Christianity and then turn around and blast people. You give Christianity a bad name, and THAT'S what upsets me.


cookiequeen
important is that we, your friends, know that you are a fine person and a TRUE Christian. She resides far to way below you to let her upset you. A Christian obviously she is not, so don't pay any attention to her miserable behavior.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Solo, wait! It just dawned on me. The thread is "Successes of President Obama?"
> 
> What can possibly be posted with the one exception to say he successfully snowed the American people twice to get elected twice.
> 
> That takes one or two posts at the most.
> 
> Leave it to a KP Lib to start something that will fail right out of the gate.
> 
> What a riot!


knitpresentgift
go take your ball and play in traffic. Try not to partake any more before you step out.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good Point! I only repeated what she has posted.


knitpresentgifts
obviously after being slushed. However we love your tipsy escapades, can almost set a clock by it.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Did she say over and over and over again she'd leave but is still here? That's typical behavior and nothing new. So easy to ignore.


knitpresentgifts 
Yes, you said it over and over and over again that you were leaving several threads and look how you keep popping up like a bad infection.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.
> 
> I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.
> 
> You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.
> 
> I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
> 
> I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.
> 
> Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


knitpresentgifts
really? Get used to it, we know everything about you, you have had such a need to reveal everything about yourself. 
Not exiting however. Little takes place behind that purplish door. Time for new planters.


----------



## Designer1234

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> really? Get used to it, we know everything about you, you have had such a need to reveal everything about yourself.
> Not exiting however. Little takes place behind that purplish door. Time for new planters.


self Deprecating????? You never stop telling us how much you know, how superior you are and how you are not going to answer any more, or post any more. Come on!!!


----------



## Designer1234

knitpresentgifts said:


> I still don't understand. How can you go through life and not know or understand the world around you?
> 
> Most I assume are at least in their mid to late fifties or older. They had jobs, families, bought or rented homes, managed their finances, invested or not, traveled, heard some news and can see the obvious and must try to understand how the economy, housing market, unemployment rate, etc., all work like cogs in a wheel.
> 
> It blows my mind that they cannot write one paragraph of thoughts in a discussion style.
> 
> All I ever read were one or two sentences of copied/pasted or requoted talking points or another's opinion with nothing to support the OP's thoughts or opinions.
> 
> I just don't get it.


That's for sure- you really don't get it.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.
> 
> I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.
> 
> You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.
> 
> I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
> 
> I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.
> 
> Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


knitpresentgifts
is that you KPG? Not recognizable for the most part. Must be copying from someone-else's Dairy.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> I have *never* said you or *anyone* was a White Supremacist in my life. I have *never* said an Anti-Semitic statement in my life.
> 
> I DID tell you the website you said was a Christian site was owned by Jews or at least that is the claim of the disgusting website you bragged about on KP and declared it was based on Christian beliefs.
> 
> Both your disgusting, offensive and lying posts attempting to defame my name have been turned over to KP Admin and my attorney. You don't know what the truth is, perhaps they'll help you figure it out.
> 
> Maybe you should talk to your best friend, Vocal Lisa, and ask for advice on how to NOT get caught up in criminal activity on KP.


What a crock of BS! 
You got suspended for your ugly words. I don't think Admin has forgotten that. As far as your imaginary "attorney" goes, I hope he is laughing his imaginary arse off at your imaginary expense.
You defame yourself. You are your own worst enemy.

Ps You said Vocallisa was MY best friend. Are you confused again??


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> The post by Poor Purl above has been reported to Admin.
> 
> It is a complete lie about me (KPG).


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## BrattyPatty

soloweygirl said:


> You're so proud to be a Jew that one of your "friends" had to out you. How do you expect KPG to get it right, when you can't?


I remember that chat well, solo.
I didn't "out" her. The people that count knew that she is Jewish. *She's* always known she is Jewish. What's your problem? Do you walk around in a sweatshirt with "I'm Proud to be a Jew" on the front? No?? Neither does she, nor does anyone expect her to. If you want to, go for it. I doubt it will change the impression of you that anyone has already formed.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> obviously after being slushed. However we love your tipsy escapades, can almost set a clock by it.


It's Thursday, Huck. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

BrattyPatty said:


> It's Thursday, Huck.


Patty you and Huck are right on the money. She is so predictable you can set your clock by her. What a dweeb. :XD: Slosh slosh slosh. :XD: Thar she blows! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Jokim

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.
> 
> I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.
> 
> You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.
> 
> I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
> 
> I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.
> 
> Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


Very well stated, KPG. :thumbup: 
You present your case clearly and stand your ground firmly against a huge onslaught from the left. Just because one is a Christian does not mean that one should allow abuse by others. You have asserted yourself and that they cannot stomach. Stay strong.♥


----------



## BrattyPatty

Jokim said:


> Very well stated, KPG. :thumbup:
> You present your case clearly and stand your ground firmly against a huge onslaught from the left. Just because one is a Christian does not mean that one should allow abuse by others. You have asserted yourself and that they cannot stomach. Stay strong.♥


Oh please........................she causes most of this herself. Maybe you should pray for her poor demented soul instead of boosting her ego for bad behavior and ugliness in general.


----------



## Wombatnomore

Poor Purl said:


> I'm pretty sure that KPG, and she alone, did say that Jews were White Supremacists (I think, given the context, that would mean all Jews, though maybe it just means most). She certainly declared that the nasty White Supremacist, anti-Semitic website I discovered was run by Jews (who called themselves grubby and pictured themselves with hooked noses? are we all that self-hating?). If I weren't busy preparing a Passover dinner for 12 (more than half of whom have turned-up noses), I might look it up. (Would you like to be our 13th? Wasn't that Judas, way back when?)
> 
> You are leaning on a broken reed, tryin to keep it honest but not very successfully.


And was suspended from KP for some time because of it. Just bein honest.


----------



## Gerslay

Poor Purl said:


> I'm pretty sure that KPG, and she alone, did say that Jews were White Supremacists (I think, given the context, that would mean all Jews, though maybe it just means most). She certainly declared that the nasty White Supremacist, anti-Semitic website I discovered was run by Jews (who called themselves grubby and pictured themselves with hooked noses? are we all that self-hating?). If I weren't busy preparing a Passover dinner for 12 (more than half of whom have turned-up noses), I might look it up. (Would you like to be our 13th? Wasn't that Judas, way back when?)
> 
> You are leaning on a broken reed, tryin to keep it honest but not very successfully.


First you were sure, and now you're pretty sure, and you have said a couple of times that if you weren't so busy at the moment or if you're computer wasn't acting up and deleting your posts that you'd look it up. Well I have looked it up and she did NOT say that ALL Jews are White Supremacists. Period!

You really need to own your part in all that transpired in that particular brouhaha that took place over a year ago, and stop playing the victim.

(FYI: "Some Christian traditions have it that at the Last Supper, Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, was the 13th to sit at the table. However, the Bible itself says nothing about the order at which the Apostles sat. Also, the number 13 is not uniformly bad in the Judeo-Christian tradition. For example, the attributes of God (also called the Thirteen Attributes of Mercy) are enumerated in the Torah (Exodus 34:67). Some modern Christian churches also use 13 attributes of God in sermons.")


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well said, Yarnie. They don't understand the words of God, no wonder they deny Him and smear his teachings. We must not continue to cast our pearls before swine as we know they'll only be trampled beneath their feet. That's also what the Bible teaches us.


Feels like this is defamation; using the word 'swine' in reference to people who have opined about the legitimacy of G-d on this thread as is their right to do.

Retort, report and throw your attorney in for good measure. Your behaviour is laughable and does nothing to support your own grand opinion of yourself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Wombatnomore

cookiequeen said:


> Jesus did not discriminate and accepted EVERYONE. It would be wise to remember some of the things you accuse others of. Words carry connotations, and the way you use yours have particular undertones of nastiness, even though you hope they seem innocuous on the surface. We all can tell that you think highly of yourself, but your words betray you. Perhaps you need to humble yourself and re-read what you post. We could all benefit from that---even you. There is a lot of talk about not judging others, but this little gem is oft forgotten. We can only see your character by your statements and words. In my opinion it isn't always a pretty picture. And if it seems that I'm judging you, so be it. You open yourself to that. I know some of you whippersnappers think some of us are doddering old people (and even make fun of old age) but we've learned a lot in our time on earth and in the life we've been living with whatever tragedies we've had to get through.


So superbly written and incredibly wise. I hope the recipient reads this carefully and takes it on board.


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to answer you and hopefully you'll open your critical and hate-filled mind to listen.
> 
> I do not discriminate. For as long as I've been on KP, you've done nothing but judge me, critique me and attempt to hurt me.
> 
> You have no idea who I am, how old I am, nor how or why I write sometime as to "seem" what you "think" I mean to say. So do not tell me 'how' I hope to comes across with my words.
> 
> You will not be able to show I've complained or quoted the 'judge not' Bible verse because I do not. It's you or the Libs who like to misquote the Bible and its verses and repeatedly judge and trash and bash Christians repeatedly.
> 
> I am probably one of the most self-deprecating posters on KP of those I communicate with on the threads and in private. I do not care what you think of me because I have no respect for you or your opinions. You are not my mother. I was raised to respect my elders and do. I was also taught to ignore those of no consequences and those whose only intent is to tear others down and have nothing positive to add to the conversation.
> 
> I have never ridiculed any KP poster (other than perhaps myself or in agreement in a joke) for being old or of any age.
> 
> Do not ever speak to me again in such a tone and expect my reply to be so polite IF I even bother to waste my time speaking to you again. In case you haven't noticed, I probably haven't responded to you in more than a year. You should be able to now understand why.
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about me. How dare you tell me to be humble and how to act and write.


Oh well, deaf ears as they say.


----------



## Wombatnomore

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


And that's just a start Cheeky. The rest would be greater than 'War and Peace!'


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Thanks, Wombat! Some need to be taken down a peg or two and one in particular could use a lesson in humility. The bile in her belly must be choking her.


----------



## Wombatnomore

joeysomma said:


> You are so WRONG! He told sinners, go and sin no more.
> He accepts only those who will believe on Him.
> 
> John 3:16 (NKJV)
> 
> _ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that *whoever believes in Him* should not perish but have everlasting life. _
> 
> God's words not mine.


How can they be G-d's words when the passage is not written in the first person?


----------



## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Wombat! Some need to be taken down a peg or two and one in particular could use a lesson in humility. The bile in her belly must be choking her.


I don't believe it's bile sloshing around in there, Cheeky!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Wombatnomore

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Wombat! Some need to be taken down a peg or two and one in particular could use a lesson in humility. The bile in her belly must be choking her.


Or burning a large hole! Doubt whether either result will change anything.


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't believe it's bile sloshing around in there, Cheeky!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


And that get's straight to the heart of the matter. No one individual should have the power to influence beliefs no matter who they are or others think they are.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't believe it's bile sloshing around in there, Cheeky!


Might be 80 proof. I wouldn't put a match too close to that mouth. :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

joeysomma said:


> You are so WRONG! He told sinners, go and sin no more.
> He accepts only those who will believe on Him.
> 
> John 3:16 (NKJV)
> 
> _ For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that *whoever believes in Him* should not perish but have everlasting life. _
> 
> God's words not mine.


Thank Joeys. God loves everyone but we have to accept Jesus as our Savior and Lord. He is the One that died for our sins. He is our way to Heaven thru His Blood He shed for us. So we may have eternal life. God sends no one to hell. They have free will they can chose or deny Him. John 3:16


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Jokim said:


> Very well stated, KPG. :thumbup:
> You present your case clearly and stand your ground firmly against a huge onslaught from the left. Just because one is a Christian does not mean that one should allow abuse by others. You have asserted yourself and that they cannot stomach. Stay strong.♥


Thank you Jokim. I stand on the rock and no weapon formed against me will prosper.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Wombatnomore said:


> And that get's straight to the heart of the matter. No one individual should have the power to influence beliefs no matter who they are or others think they are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Good deeds doesn't get anyone to Heaven. Only forgiveness from the Son.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## knitpresentgifts

Wombatnomore said:


> And was suspended from KP for some time because of it. Just bein honest.


You have no idea what you're talking about in this regard.

Nothing unusual, carry on.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Wombatnomore said:


> Feels like this is defamation; using the word 'swine' in reference to people who have opined about the legitimacy of G-d on this thread as is their right to do.
> 
> Retort, report and throw your attorney in for good measure. Your behaviour is laughable and does nothing to support your own grand opinion of yourself.


Do you keep yourself in ignorance on purpose?

Matthew 7:6 New American Standard Bible

_"Do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or they will trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces."_

Sounds like I quoted the appropriate verse to me.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:hunf:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:shock:


----------



## theyarnlady

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


Cheeky, #1 "Whoever" comes to me will not go hungry. First you have to go to him and ask him , then he will provide for you . He did not mean food, he meant believe in him and he will feed your soul.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:hunf:


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you Jokim. I stand on the rock and no weapon formed against me will prosper.


Yep.


----------



## theyarnlady

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :shock:


If that is true then no religions should have any rights. 
Not even people who are atheist.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> I remember that chat well, solo.
> I didn't "out" her. The people that count knew that she is Jewish. *She's* always known she is Jewish. What's your problem? Do you walk around in a sweatshirt with "I'm Proud to be a Jew" on the front? No?? Neither does she, nor does anyone expect her to. If you want to, go for it. I doubt it will change the impression of you that anyone has already formed.


BrattyPatty
Well, at least I am proud to be a Jew, she seems to have a reason to feel otherwise. I have never worn my Religion on my sleeves and neither do any Jews in my circle. We have no need to flaunt our Religion as the Righties have. We also see no need to convert others, there are plenty Newcomers quietly joining us. They are escaping the Fire and Brimstone Sermons.


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> It's Thursday, Huck. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


BrattyPatty
oh yes, the day of infamy. Well, everything has it high point, doesn't it. The falling down from it is the pits.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
It is always someone else's fault that hate comes into play.


----------



## BrattyPatty

theyarnlady said:


> If that is true then no religions should have any rights.
> Not even people who are atheist.


Atheism in not a religion. They don't believe in religion. I don't believe that religions shouldn't have any rights. But I think that they should respect the beliefs of others and stop proselytizing. If someone does not believe in Christ, then why should they have to listen to those who can't leave them alone? Religion is a personal thing. Nobody is stopping Christians from practicing their faith. Can Christians still go to church? Can Christians pray in their homes? They can pray silently or aloud anyplace they go except in the classrooms. Can they honor the holy days? Of course they can!
I don't believe that religion should be tied to government. We live in a very diverse country. There are too many different faiths. You can't choose one out of all the others and use it to govern with. Those candidates who say "we have to bring Christian values back to the White House and both houses," will not win. They have to look at the people as a whole. If one religion is being shoved down the throat of Americans, then we will have gone from a democratic republic to a theocracy. That was never in the Constitution or in the heads of the founding fathers.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty you and Huck are right on the money. She is so predictable you can set your clock by her. What a dweeb. :XD: Slosh slosh slosh. :XD: Thar she blows! :XD: :XD: :XD:


Cheeky Blighter
and let it be full moon on that day, all Hell brakes loose.


----------



## Huckleberry

Jokim said:


> Very well stated, KPG. :thumbup:
> You present your case clearly and stand your ground firmly against a huge onslaught from the left. Just because one is a Christian does not mean that one should allow abuse by others. You have asserted yourself and that they cannot stomach. Stay strong.♥


Jokim
this is sarcasm, correct?


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
It is always a pleasure to see the truth in large print. Thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :shock:


 Matthew 10:32-33New International Version (NIV)

32 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you Jokim. I stand on the rock and no weapon formed against me will prosper.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: okie dokie!


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you Jokim. I stand on the rock and no weapon formed against me will prosper.


knitpresentgifts
enjoy the scenery.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> Matthew 10:32-33New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 32 Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.


Country Bumpkins,
why is it that your Bible verses need to be rewritten from time to time?


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
no truer words have ever been spoken.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

++++


----------



## knitpresentgifts

++++


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins,
> why is it that your Bible verses need to be rewritten from time to time?


Are you asking me another question?Do you want me to answer you again? You got mad yesterday when I answered you. I will be happy to answer you.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you keep yourself in ignorance on purpose?
> 
> Matthew 7:6 New American Standard Bible
> 
> _"Do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or they will trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces."_
> 
> Sounds like I quoted the appropriate verse to me.


knitpresentgifts
why the need to rewrite your Bible stories so frequently? Is your Religion so poorly based that it needs revamping periodically? By the way, that stuff is very gory. Sounds like Goth stuff.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

+++


----------



## Country Bumpkins

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


Yes amen!


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


knitpresentgifts
good words, just stop using his name in vain. Not nice.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

++++


----------



## knitpresentgifts

++++


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins,
> why is it that your Bible verses need to be rewritten from time to time?


Matthew 11:6
And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.
That is in red. Jesus is talking.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes amen!


The tent is full, we're gonna have ourselves a revival! :-D


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


Cheeky Blighter
Glad you remind the so-called Christians what Christ was all about. They either have forgotten or never knew it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

knitpresentgifts said:


> The tent is full, we're gonna have ourselves a revival! :-D


I love revival. Bring it on! The Lord is my Shepard I shall not want.


----------



## BrattyPatty

!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> I love revival. Bring it on! The Lord is my Shepard I shall not want.


Tell it Sister! They ought to love the hand meme, it's a handful of facts (their all time favorite). Glory Hallelujah! He Lives!


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Atheism in not a religion. They don't believe in religion. I don't believe that religions shouldn't have any rights. But I think that they should respect the beliefs of others and stop proselytizing. If someone does not believe in Christ, then why should they have to listen to those who can't leave them alone? Religion is a personal thing. Nobody is stopping Christians from practicing their faith. Can Christians still go to church? Can Christians pray in their homes? They can pray silently or aloud anyplace they go except in the classrooms. Can they honor the holy days? Of course they can!
> I don't believe that religion should be tied to government. We live in a very diverse country. There are too many different faiths. You can't choose one out of all the others and use it to govern with. Those candidates who say "we have to bring Christian values back to the White House and both houses," will not win. They have to look at the people as a whole. If one religion is being shoved down the throat of Americans, then we will have gone from a democratic republic to a theocracy. That was never in the Constitution or in the heads of the founding fathers.


BrattyPatty
well, if Christianity is being taught in public Schools, I/we shall make sure that ALL OTHER RELIGIONS will be as well.
There are 100s. Now that should be interesting.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


knitpresentgifts
who wrote that? Sarah Palin?


----------



## knitpresentgifts

_I am redeemed, You set me free
So I'll shake off these heavy chains
Wipe away every stain, now I'm not who I used to be
I am redeemed, I'm redeemed._

Jesus loosed the chains of sin and set me free!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep.


Some solid rock that is. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> !


BrattyPatty
just think, Religion being taught in public schools and ALL of the respective symbols being displayed. They would have to add walls somehow.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> _I am redeemed, You set me free
> So I'll shake off these heavy chains
> Wipe away every stain, now I'm not who I used to be
> I am redeemed, I'm redeemed_
> 
> Jesus loosed the chains of sin and set me free!


knitpresentgifts
did he use a cell phone to tell you that? Your direct communication is very interesting.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


knitpresentgifts
all the gore and fighting is disturbing.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Glad you remind the so-called Christians what Christ was all about. They either have forgotten or never knew it.


They make Jesus weep with shame, Huck. They give Christianity a dirty name and they are too busy contemplating their navels to even notice.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> Are you asking me another question?Do you want me to answer you again? You got mad yesterday when I answered you. I will be happy to answer you.


Country Bumpkins
only if you can give a short and straight, plain english answer.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> did he use a cell phone to tell you that? Your direct communication is very interesting.


Now she will scream that you are oppressing her while she tries to subjugate the rest of us.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They make Jesus weep with shame, Huck. They give Christianity a dirty name and they are too busy contemplating their navels to even notice.


Cheeky Blighter
Christ must be weeping constantly. A portion of his Herd forgot all of his teachings.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> did he use a cell phone to tell you that? Your direct communication is very interesting.


She has her own private hot line to heaven. In her dreams...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> only if you can give a short and straight, plain english answer.


 John 3:17-21New International Version (NIV)

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Now she will scream that you are oppressing her while she tries to subjugate the rest of us.


Cheeky Blighter
Just a simple question. An enquiring mind wants to know. I just wonder why only some folks are always being spoken to and how and others never while I see them as very fine Christians.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> John 3:17-21New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


Country Bumpkins
thank you, you did pretty good.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> thank you, you did pretty good.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :thumbup:


Cheeky Blighter
I vote for that in a heartbeat. Time to tax all religions. It will help feeding the hungry and housing the homeless and whatever ails us.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Just a simple question. An enquiring mind wants to know. I just wonder why only some folks are always being spoken to and how and others never while I see them as very fine Christians.


The real Christians don't have to run around talking about it. The ones you have to watch out for are the ones that say God talks to them. God told several right wing Christians to run for president. Did God make a mistake or was someone fibbing?


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :lol:


Cheeky Blighter
Mr. Rush, the finest specimen of how NOT to be.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The real Christians don't have to run around talking about it. The ones you have to watch out for are the ones that say God talks to them. God told several right wing Christians to run for president. Did God make a mistake or was someone fibbing?


what is a real Christian?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Country Bumpkins said:


> what is a real Christian?


You tell me.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The real Christians don't have to run around talking about it. The ones you have to watch out for are the ones that say God talks to them. God told several right wing Christians to run for president. Did God make a mistake or was someone fibbing?


Cheeky Blighter
He failed miserably. See, even he is not perfect.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
Adults being Kids makes for horrible War Games.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter




----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> what is a real Christian?


Country Bumpkins
one of my Friends here. She cares about the hungry and homeless and suffering and is too kind to scold me ever.
She practices her Faith quietly and steadfast.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> He failed miserably. See, even he is not perfect.


If he told more than one then somebody made a mistake or maybe they misinterpret God when he talks to them.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


Cheeky Blighter
Jon Stewart got it right.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

:shock:


----------



## Huckleberry

Good Night Friends. See you bright eyed and bushy tailed in the morning. Huck


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You tell me.


I am not the one calling anyone a real Christian but anyone can say they are a Christian . To be a born again Christian you have to give you life to Jesus. No one is perfect, man or woman will let you down. Pastors, friends , family, neighbors work members. Jesus will never let you down. We are all sinners and will continue to be sinners . We are forgiven if we as for forgiveness for our sins and ask Jesus in our hearts. We are only perfect because He then steps inside our spirit. We are still flesh and that part sins until we die and are made perfect in heaven. There is nothing good in us but Him when we are saved.


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :shock:


Cheeky Blighter
Frantz Fanon is a genius and you exposing us to him.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> one of my Friends here. She cares about the hungry and homeless and suffering and is too kind to scold me ever.
> She practices her Faith quietly and steadfast.


She is a true believer who has nothing to fear from our posts and I respect that.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> one of my Friends here. She cares about the hungry and homeless and suffering and is too kind to scold me ever.
> She practices her Faith quietly and steadfast.


That is good. I am glad you have a good friend you think is a good Christian. Does she fight with ours about what they believe?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She is a true believer who has nothing to fear from our posts and I respect that.


Who are you talking about?


----------



## Crochet dreamin'

Isuel said:


> How is this possible? He was born in Canada!


Oh, anything is possible. We still don't have conclusive evidence Mr. Obama was born in this country. I will pick him or any other candidate over "Hill". What a smarmy bunch that was! (IMHO) Being retired I get to check ALL the news. As far as I can see, there isn't much real news on the public channels. Lots of coverup and non-reporting unless it suits their political agendas.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am not the one calling anyone a real Christian but anyone can say they are a Christian . To be a born again Christian you have to give you life to Jesus. No one is perfect, man or woman will let you down. Pastors, friends , family, neighbors work members. Jesus will never let you down. We are all sinners and will continue to be sinners . We are forgiven if we as for forgiveness for our sins and ask Jesus in our hearts. We are only perfect because He then steps inside our spirit. We are still flesh and that part sins until we die and are made perfect in heaven. There is nothing good in us but Him when we are saved.


Thank you for your explanation. I believe if you are born again it should be obvious by how you conduct yourself that you are truly a Christian. People who are arrogant and conduct themselves in a haughty manner cannot be Christians and yet there are ones out here who carry on with reckless abandon and shamelessly proclaim how wonderful they are and give all Christians a bad name. It is obvious who they are. Your sincerity is obvious and honest. I respect you but do not agree with everything you believe and I hope you can respect that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

joeysomma said:


> Exactly what taxes would they pay that they are not paying now?


Tax on the money they take in from their members. They should pay taxes just like any other organization.


----------



## theyarnlady

BrattyPatty said:


> !


Thank you for the cross and the Star of David.


----------



## Jokim

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you Jokim. I stand on the rock and no weapon formed against me will prosper.


Amen :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady

I just have one more question. 

Why is the Islam religion allowed to be taught in schools.

Yet no mention of Christian beliefs are allowed? 

There is a day in which Christian Children have a meet at the flag poll (outside of the school) meet to pray. 

Why are they not allowed to meet inside the schools? Why are Muslim and other faiths allowed but not those who are Christians. I am not doing this to cause disruptions, I want to know why one would think it was o.k. for one to be allowed and not the other.

Why is there no mention in this country of the those of the Jewish faith and the Christian faith being killed in the Middle East. To line up children and chop their heads off or to be shot . To hear of the adults who do not believe in Islam? How about all the gay people? 

Even our President will not talk about that. But he feels he can go to the Prayer breakfast and those of a christian faith and critcize them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Crochet dreamin' said:


> Oh, anything is possible. We still don't have conclusive evidence Mr. Obama was born in this country. I will pick him or any other candidate over "Hill". What a smarmy bunch that was! (IMHO) Being retired I get to check ALL the news. As far as I can see, there isn't much real news on the public channels. Lots of coverup and non-reporting unless it suits their political agendas.


Hi Crochet Dreamin' - welcome to the circus! We've come a loooong way since my opening post. Glad to have you join us and would love to hear your opinions.

I hear Hill will announce officially on Sunday - let the games begin!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> Like a business? Like a labor union? Like Planned Parenthood? Like United Way?
> 
> What taxes do they pay?


Cheeky obviously doesn't understand that churches are not "like any other organization." I don't think she understands how businesses and charitable organizations are created and how under the law they are recognized.


----------



## susanmos2000

theyarnlady said:


> I just have one more question.
> 
> Why is the Islam religion allowed to be taught in schools.
> 
> Yet no mention of Christian beliefs are allowed?
> 
> There is a day in which Christian Children have a meet at the flag poll (outside of the school) meet to pray.
> 
> Why are they not allowed to meet inside the schools? Why are Muslim and other faiths allowed but not those who are Christians. I am not doing this to cause disruptions, I want to know why one would think it was o.k. for one to be allowed and not the other.


These are very sweeping accusations. How about providing some specific examples we can discuss?



> Why is there no mention in this country of the those of the Jewish faith and the Christian faith being killed in the Middle East. To line up children and chop their heads off or to be shot . To hear of the adults who do not believe in Islam? How about all the gay people?
> 
> Even our President will not talk about that. But he feels he can go to the Prayer breakfast and those of a christian faith and critcize them.


There's been plenty of talk in this country about the atrocities being committed by ISIS--head chopping on a massive scale, girls and women being seized as "the spoils of war", women being forced to adopt a dress code straight out of the Middle Ages. I admit we haven't heard much about how ISIS treats gays, but that's probably because there's aren't too many openly homosexual guys and gals there. Coming out of the closet means death, and they know that.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

theyarnlady said:


> I just have one more question.
> 
> Why is the Islam religion allowed to be taught in schools.
> 
> Yet no mention of Christian beliefs are allowed?
> 
> There is a day in which Christian Children have a meet at the flag poll (outside of the school) meet to pray.
> 
> Why are they not allowed to meet inside the schools? Why are Muslim and other faiths allowed but not those who are Christians. I am not doing this to cause disruptions, I want to know why one would think it was o.k. for one to be allowed and not the other.
> 
> Why is there no mention in this country of the those of the Jewish faith and the Christian faith being killed in the Middle East. To line up children and chop their heads off or to be shot . To hear of the adults who do not believe in Islam? How about all the gay people?
> 
> Even our President will not talk about that. But he feels he can go to the Prayer breakfast and those of a christian faith and critcize them.


Yarnie, I'd love the answers to your questions too. There is a war raging against Christians, Jews and against Muslims who refuse to follow the ways of the Extremists. Christians particularly are being slaughtered and persecuted in practice and physically.

Today, finally, those heroes involved with the Fort Hood murders have been recognized and presented with the Purple Heart.

It is terrible how those persecuted are treated like the offenders of the crimes while our President ignores or criticizes the victims and even defends/protects the criminals.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

joeysomma said:


> Actually, as far as taxes go, they are a 503(c) organization, and pay taxes like any 503 (c) organization. Like Planned Parenthood, United Way, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Schools, and labor unions. The people that donate would be the looser, since they would not have the tax deduction for their gift. Only real estate and sales tax would have to be paid.
> 
> If she wants to take away the 503(c) designation from churches, it should be taken away from everyone. Then what would happen to the charity for the poor people they are so concerned about.


Cheeky isn't knowledgable about the tax laws as you are, and she doesn't care about people in general. She only made her claim to insult Christians because she is not one.

She can believe whatever she'd like, but she is a hypocrite to shout for helping the poor and burdened while trying to remove the ability and fund raising efforts of charitable organizations who are those who support the very people Cheeky cries out. If the lesser among us relied on the Libs or Dems or general population at large, there would be such a crisis and so many more would suffer. The Christians and Repubs and concerned people, even of no faith, give more than anyone to those in need while the incentive of deductible contributions is massive and successful. Cheeky ought to learn and remember those facts. She went through a foreclosure of her own not too long ago, so she knows well that there is a grave and always will be a need for charitable organizations to help those who cannot help themselves.

Giving, loving others and sharing the gospel are Biblical and she denies all.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am not the one calling anyone a real Christian but anyone can say they are a Christian . To be a born again Christian you have to give you life to Jesus. No one is perfect, man or woman will let you down. Pastors, friends , family, neighbors work members. Jesus will never let you down. We are all sinners and will continue to be sinners . We are forgiven if we as for forgiveness for our sins and ask Jesus in our hearts. We are only perfect because He then steps inside our spirit. We are still flesh and that part sins until we die and are made perfect in heaven. There is nothing good in us but Him when we are saved.


Country Bumpkins
I find a lot of good in many people but am wondering why, if God created us, made us so imperfect. That does not make sense. Why did he not do his best? When we create something, we set forth our best effort for perfection and if it does not turn out that way, we try to correct it. Is he only into punishment during our lifetime and promises for forgiveness when we die? I like to have blessings during my lifetime and care not what happens when I am gone.


----------



## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky isn't knowledgable about the tax laws as you are, and she doesn't care about people in general. She only made her claim to insult Christians because she is not one.
> 
> She can believe whatever she'd like, but she is a hypocrite to shout for helping the poor and burdened while trying to remove the ability and fund raising efforts of charitable organizations who are those who support the very people Cheeky cries out. If the lesser among us relied on the Libs or Dems or general population at large, there would be such a crisis and so many more would suffer. The Christians and Repubs and concerned people, even of no faith, give more than anyone to those in need while the incentive of deductible contributions is massive and successful. Cheeky ought to learn and remember those facts. She went through a foreclosure of her own not too long ago, so she knows well that there is a grave and always will be a need for charitable organizations to help those who cannot help themselves.


Cheeky just went through foreclosure, eh? Is there actually a post from her mentioning this unfortunate event--or are you just making something up (again)?


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have no idea what you're talking about in this regard.
> 
> Nothing unusual, carry on.


You wish.


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you keep yourself in ignorance on purpose?
> 
> Matthew 7:6 New American Standard Bible
> 
> _"Do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or they will trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces."_
> 
> Sounds like I quoted the appropriate verse to me.


So now you're calling people 'swine' AND 'dogs.' Feels even more like defamation.


----------



## Wombatnomore

theyarnlady said:


> Cheeky, #1 "Whoever" comes to me will not go hungry. First you have to go to him and ask him , then he will provide for you . He did not mean food, he meant believe in him and he will feed your soul.


...and only if you're not a 'swine' nor a 'dog.'


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> From what you have written here, you have NO IDEA of what Freedom of Religion means! How can one practice their faith, if they can only do it in their church or home or silently? Where is the freedom? There is no Freedom.


You'll never get it . Because religion is not taught in public schools, it does not mean you have no freedom to practice your religion. That's why they have parochial schools. Nobody stopped those from being built. Have you seen any persecution here lately? Has someone come to your community and shut your church down? Have you been arrested for saying God's name in public? Has anyone banned the Bible except from schools?
I didn't think so.


----------



## Wombatnomore

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty

Wombatnomore said:


> ...and only if you're not a 'swine' nor a 'dog.'


She drops pearls at her own feet all the time. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore

theyarnlady said:


> If that is true then no religions should have any rights.
> Not even people who are atheist.


For crying out loud! Atheism is NOT a religion.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist.

From Wiki.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Wombatnomore said:


> So now you're calling people 'swine' AND 'dogs.' Feels even more like defamation.


Did you expect anything more???? But NOOOOOO, she never insults anyone......


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky isn't knowledgable about the tax laws as you are, and she doesn't care about people in general. She only made her claim to insult Christians because she is not one.
> 
> She can believe whatever she'd like, but she is a hypocrite to shout for helping the poor and burdened while trying to remove the ability and fund raising efforts of charitable organizations who are those who support the very people Cheeky cries out. If the lesser among us relied on the Libs or Dems or general population at large, there would be such a crisis and so many more would suffer. The Christians and Repubs and concerned people, even of no faith, give more than anyone to those in need while the incentive of deductible contributions is massive and successful. Cheeky ought to learn and remember those facts. She went through a foreclosure of her own not too long ago, so she knows well that there is a grave and always will be a need for charitable organizations to help those who cannot help themselves.
> 
> Giving, loving others and sharing the gospel are Biblical and she denies all.


knitpresentgifts
if we had to rely on the Republicans, Social Security would disappear, Health Care would once again become none existent for tens of Millions, minimum wage would be abolished and the Rich would prosper beyond the over 300% income increase they have "suffered" in the last 3 decades. We all would be forced to become Christians and would have to wear it on our sleeves. Not a pretty picture but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. As to loving others, start with yourself and begin to be honest and at least show an itsy bit of caring for others. You are the most self centered creature around. May learn what "humble" means.


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> _I am redeemed, You set me free
> So I'll shake off these heavy chains
> Wipe away every stain, now I'm not who I used to be
> I am redeemed, I'm redeemed._
> 
> Jesus loosed the chains of sin and set me free!


Too bad for you the mental hospital didn't.
You are right, you are not who you used to be. You're worse.


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


Well, off you go then!


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> ++++


So you keep saying, and saying, and...


----------



## Wombatnomore

knitpresentgifts said:


> +++


Maybe, but I know for sure G-d didn't invent the 'Valentine.' Hallmark Cards did.


----------



## Designer1234

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thank you for your explanation. I believe if you are born again it should be obvious by how you conduct yourself that you are truly a Christian. People who are arrogant and conduct themselves in a haughty manner cannot be Christians and yet there are ones out here who carry on with reckless abandon and shamelessly proclaim how wonderful they are and give all Christians a bad name. It is obvious who they are. Your sincerity is obvious and honest. I respect you but do not agree with everything you believe and I hope you can respect that.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is good. I am glad you have a good friend you think is a good Christian. Does she fight with ours about what they believe?


Country Bumpkins
I don't just "think" I know, I "do know". God gave me a brain to make that assessment. She never fights, she explains lovingly. She has a very Saintly demeanor, the patience of Job.


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> She drops pearls at her own feet all the time. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Brat, your avatar reminds me of Helen Hunt!


----------



## Huckleberry

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you expect anything more???? But NOOOOOO, she never insults anyone......


BrattyPatty
we need Foster Brooks to explain it to her.


----------



## Huckleberry

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Brat, you're avatar reminds me of Helen Hunt!


Wombatnomore
please, Wombat, Helen Hunt is not ugly, Ted is butt ugly.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Brat, your avatar reminds me of Helen Hunt!


it must be the hair


----------



## BrattyPatty

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky isn't knowledgable about the tax laws as you are, and she doesn't care about people in general. She only made her claim to insult Christians because she is not one.
> 
> She can believe whatever she'd like, but she is a hypocrite to shout for helping the poor and burdened while trying to remove the ability and fund raising efforts of charitable organizations who are those who support the very people Cheeky cries out. If the lesser among us relied on the Libs or Dems or general population at large, there would be such a crisis and so many more would suffer. The Christians and Repubs and concerned people, even of no faith, give more than anyone to those in need while the incentive of deductible contributions is massive and successful. Cheeky ought to learn and remember those facts. She went through a foreclosure of her own not too long ago, so she knows well that there is a grave and always will be a need for charitable organizations to help those who cannot help themselves.
> 
> Giving, loving others and sharing the gospel are Biblical and she denies all.


Spoken by the Great Liar herself. Reborn my foot!


----------



## Wombatnomore

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> please, Wombat, Helen Hunt is not ugly, Ted is butt ugly.


Oh, I agree, but there is a striking resemblance! Let's say the avatar picture is a caricature of Helen Hunt?


----------



## Wombatnomore

BrattyPatty said:


> it must be the hair


And the long neck! :mrgreen:


----------



## susanmos2000

BrattyPatty said:


> Spoken by the Great Liar herself. Reborn my foot!


Well, maybe He holds to the old saying, If at first you don't succeed... :roll:


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> I find a lot of good in many people but am wondering why, if God created us, made us so imperfect. That does not make sense. Why did he not do his best? When we create something, we set forth our best effort for perfection and if it does not turn out that way, we try to correct it. Is he only into punishment during our lifetime and promises for forgiveness when we die? I like to have blessings during my lifetime and care not what happens when I am gone.


God gave man and then woman the best of everything. They had the whole world to enjoy. There was only one rule God gave them. Don't eat of the tree of knowledge or you shall surely die.The snake(satan) tempted Eve to take of the forbidden fruit. Eve was deceived but Adam willing ate of the fruit. That was the first sin against God. Then the whole earth was full of corruption. People are sinners from birth. They are born into sin..
Sin took over the Earth so God destroyed all but 8 righteous with the flood. God gave them all the choice to come to Him and believe Noah. He would have saved them from the flood but they chose in their own lusts and disbelief.
God always gives us the choice. We are not his puppets. We have free will to chose Him or not . Then we have to reap what we have chosen. I don't like people hurting , suffering, killing or starving. It is all the result of sin. The more people reject God the worse the Earth is going to get. It is sin taking over. That is what is happening in the world now.
God gave us the Ten Commandments. We can't keep them. If you break one you break them all. So He gave us a way we could be saved . He gave His Son as an offering . The only thing He asks us to do is to believe in Him and say we are sorry. It is so simple and so rewarding. Life is not easy for anyone. If you have the Lord you have the hope of someone watching out for you and loving you so much if you were the only one He would have done it for you. Life on this earth is only for a short time. Eternity is forever.
I hope I answered you question.
God is Love not punishment. Hell is denying Him. We all have the same choice. To accept Him or reject Him.


----------



## BrattyPatty

Wombatnomore said:


> So now you're calling people 'swine' AND 'dogs.' Feels even more like defamation.


Quick Wombat!! Get your attorney on the phone!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


Cheeki Blighter
religious bigots galore here.


----------



## susanmos2000

Country Bumpkins said:


> God gave man and then woman the best of everything. They had the whole world to enjoy. There was only one rule God gave them. Don't eat of the tree of knowledge or you shall surely die.The snake(satan) tempted Eve to take of the forbidden fruit. Eve was deceived but Adam willing ate of the fruit. That was the first sin against God. Then the whole earth was full of corruption. People are sinners from birth. They are born into sin..
> Sin took over the Earth so God destroyed all but 8 righteous with the flood. God gave them all the choice to come to Him and believe Noah. He would have saved them from the flood but they chose in their own lusts and disbelief.


Yeah, sure. I'm certain all those tiny babies had the power to leave their mothers' arms and levitate through the air toward the ark. The slightly older ones might have stood a chance--assuming of course that they could crawl or toddle thousands of miles over deserts, raging rivers, seas etc.


----------



## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love it! I remember from reading her posts a couple of years ago she:
> 
> didn't like the water, but went on a cruise and even bought an island
> 
> grew up in Germany, the Black Forest, but never lived there
> 
> she is German but really only a Jew
> 
> she buried her young Whippersnapper of a husband, in Europe, but then when mourning in Europe, raised him from the dead, (mindful she doesn't believe in organized religion or such fairy tales), got on a plane back to live with him in her Community Living Center in MO and loves playing footsie with him
> 
> she and he each have a computer but needs to wait for her turn to use a computer (that community sharing is rough)
> 
> she used to be into organized religion, but isn't, but wrote the Bible anyway but know diddly about the Bible
> 
> she's an artist, but takes other's works and dabs some glitter on them and calls them her original art
> 
> she was always a Republican but now a Lib except she doesn't vote or know what either party stands for
> 
> I could repeat so many stories but I'd kill myself in laughter trying to remember them all. I had to stop reading her nonsense so I didn't confuse her with a rational human being.
> 
> She is the most confused and screwed up person I've ever encountered.


knitpresentgifts
I now will declare you a LIAR and can proof it. Multiple lies.
Not just missteps, Lies.


----------



## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> God gave man and then woman the best of everything. They had the whole world to enjoy. There was only one rule God gave them. Don't eat of the tree of knowledge or you shall surely die.The snake(satan) tempted Eve to take of the forbidden fruit. Eve was deceived but Adam willing ate of the fruit. That was the first sin against God. Then the whole earth was full of corruption. People are sinners from birth. They are born into sin..
> Sin took over the Earth so God destroyed all but 8 righteous with the flood. God gave them all the choice to come to Him and believe Noah. He would have saved them from the flood but they chose in their own lusts and disbelief.
> God always gives us the choice. We are not his puppets. We have free will to chose Him or not . Then we have to reap what we have chosen. I don't like people hurting , suffering, killing or starving. It is all the result of sin. The more people reject God the worse the Earth is going to get. It is sin taking over. That is what is happening in the world now.
> God gave us the Ten Commandments. We can't keep them. If you break one you break them all. So He gave us a way we could be saved . He gave His Son as an offering . The only thing He asks us to do is to believe in Him and say we are sorry. It is so simple and so rewarding. Life is not easy for anyone. If you have the Lord you have the hope of someone watching out for you and loving you so much if you were the only one He would have done it for you. Life on this earth is only for a short time. Eternity is forever.
> I hope I answered you question.
> God is Love not punishment. Hell is denying Him. We all have the same choice. To accept Him or reject Him.


Country Bumpkins
what a crock: "Don't eat of the tree of knowledge". He gave us a brain and forbids us to use it? Darn, this stuff is weird. We Jews have a reputation for being smart, is that why some-one following Christ needed to insert something to keep us down? Scare us? It ain't working. "Sinners from birth"? He creates Sinners so he can be a punishing Father? Senseless. A Father like that no-one needs.


----------



## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yarnie, I'd love the answers to your questions too. There is a war raging against Christians, Jews and against Muslims who refuse to follow the ways of the Extremists. Christians particularly are being slaughtered and persecuted in practice and physically.
> 
> Today, finally, those heroes involved with the Fort Hood murders have been recognized and presented with the Purple Heart.
> 
> It is terrible how those persecuted are treated like the offenders of the crimes while our President ignores or criticizes the victims and even defends/protects the criminals.


Can't stay long, but I feel like I can add something to your post. I listened to a Navy Vet that was on a phone interview. His name is Chris Toney, he and other vets are fighting with the Kurds against ISIS. These are men that fought as soldiers in the US military, retired , and can't stand by and watch these people be slaughtered. Chris said that ISIS plan is to destroy Christians, then Jews and then Kurdish Muslims. He also told that when the media talks about the kurdish/ vet army holding back a large army of ISIS fighters, that is because of the great air defense the French are giving them. Chris claims they could not survive without the help of the French air power. It's not what the main stream governmedia's are reporting.


----------



## Huckleberry

joeysomma said:


> Freedom of Religion gives the RIGHT to say NO. That has been taken away.


joeysomma
say NO to what? Bigotry, Racism, hatred? Any decent Society will reject those.


----------



## Huckleberry

galinipper said:


> Can't stay long, but I feel like I can add something to your post. I listened to a Navy Vet that was on a phone interview. His name is Chris Toney, he and other vets are fighting with the Kurds against ISIS. These are men that fought as soldiers in the US military, retired , and can't stand by and watch these people be slaughtered. Chris said that ISIS plan is to destroy Christians, then Jews and then Kurdish Muslims. He also told that when the media talks about the kurdish/ vet army holding back a large army of ISIS fighters, that is because of the great air defense the French are giving them. Chris claims they could not survive without the help of the French air power. It's not what the main stream governmedia's are reporting.


galinipper
been under a Rock, eh?


----------



## GWPlver

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> did he use a cell phone to tell you that? Your direct communication is very interesting.


How lucky are we that he set her free. If only those chains could go back on.


----------



## GWPlver

Cheeky Blighter said:


>


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> Freedom of Religion gives the RIGHT to say NO. That has been taken away.


People say "no" all the time.
No to what?? Gay marriages? Then don't marry a gay person. You can say no.
Abortion? Don't have one. You can say no.
Tithing? Don't give. You can say no.
Prayer in public schools? No was the answer.

When someone starts preaching in your face, you can say no. But it doesn't necessarily stop them.


----------



## GWPlver

Wombatnomore said:


> Maybe, but I know for sure G-d didn't invent the 'Valentine.' Hallmark Cards did.


You get the "best response prize" today! I laughed so hard when I saw that item posted.


----------



## galinipper

Huckleberry said:


> galinipper
> been under a Rock, eh?


Do you have something to add to yesterdays interview with Chris Toney?

I didn't think so.


----------



## GWPlver

BrattyPatty said:


> Spoken by the Great Liar herself. Reborn my foot!


What is a born again Christian? I have never understood that term.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> what a crock: "Don't eat of the tree of knowledge". He gave us a brain and forbids us to use it? Darn, this stuff is weird. We Jews have a reputation for being smart, is that why some-one following Christ needed to insert something to keep us down? Scare us? It ain't working. "Sinners from birth"? He creates Sinners so he can be a punishing Father? Senseless. A Father like that no-one needs.


I said He gives us free will. That is our brain. You asked me a question again and I answered it with my knowledge. It has nothing to do with scaring you. God did not create sinners. Satan is the reason for sin.
Do you have to always be so ugly to me?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

GWPlver said:


> What is a born again Christian? I have never understood that term.


A Christian is someone that believes in Jesus. The church maybe full of Christians but not born again. You have to ask Jesus in your heart and forgiveness for your sins to be Born again. Hi GW


----------



## GWPlver

Huckleberry said:


> galinipper
> been under a Rock, eh?


"Unfortunately, its difficult, sighed colonel Hajar O Ismail, from the Peshmerga ministry in Erbil. The US consulate officially says they dont accept any volunteers from the US to join the Peshmerga forces, he says.

Ismail told MEE that many volunteers have tried to join the Kurds. But we thank them, and said we appreciate them, but we told them to go to their foreign consulates, Ismail told MEE.

Also, Jabbar Yawar, the official spokesperson of the Peshmerga ministry in Erbil, denied in a telephone interview that foreigners join the Peshmerga forces.

We have no decision regarding foreign volunteers. There is no decision or desire in the Ministry of Peshmerga for any forces from any other nationalities to join the Peshmerga forces, he said."

Hmmmm...................


----------



## GWPlver

Country Bumpkins said:


> A Christian is someone that believes in Jesus. The church maybe full of Christians but not born again. You have to ask Jesus in your heart and forgiveness for your sins to be Born again. Hi GW


Hi CB: Are you getting your garden ready?

Thank you for the response - I hear the term often but didn't really know what it meant.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

susanmos2000 said:


> Yeah, sure. I'm certain all those tiny babies had the power to leave their mothers' arms and levitate through the air toward the ark. The slightly older ones might have stood a chance--assuming of course that they could crawl or toddle thousands of miles over deserts, raging rivers, seas etc.


.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Country Bumpkins said:


> I said He gives us free will. That is our brain. You asked me a question again and I answered it with my knowledge. It has nothing to do with scaring you. God did not create sinners. Satan is the reason for sin.
> Do you have to always be so ugly to me?





Huckleberry said:


> I like to have blessings during my lifetime and care not what happens when I am gone.


 :thumbup: How selfish and ungrateful Huck is telling you she wants her blessings here on earth and doesn't care after she's gone.



Huckleberry said:


> We Jews have a reputation for being smart, is that why some-one following Christ needed to insert something to keep us down?


She need not worry God has lots of blessings in mind for her when she's dead. Even unknowingly, she has reserved a place for herself. But we don't have to tell her any of this, she just told you she is Jewish, and, therefore, known for being smart.

Please let's not cast any more pearls to be trampled.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

GWPlver said:


> Hi CB: Are you getting your garden ready?
> 
> Thank you for the response - I hear the term often but didn't really know what it meant.


Just my flowers so far. I don't know when we will start our garden. It is now to wet.Last year was not productive so I am not in the mood.


----------



## BrattyPatty

joeysomma said:


> To being forced to do something that is against their Faith.
> Are you forced to eat pork?


What are you personally forced to do that is against your religion, joeysomma?


----------



## GWPlver

Country Bumpkins said:


> Just my flowers so far. I don't know when we will start our garden. It is now to wet.Last year was not productive so I am not in the mood.


Same here - got flowers in and did put in a couple of tomato plants. I am heading out soon in search of herb plants - that is my focus this year.


----------



## galinipper

GWPlver said:


> "Unfortunately, its difficult, sighed colonel Hajar O Ismail, from the Peshmerga ministry in Erbil. The US consulate officially says they dont accept any volunteers from the US to join the Peshmerga forces, he says.
> 
> Ismail told MEE that many volunteers have tried to join the Kurds. But we thank them, and said we appreciate them, but we told them to go to their foreign consulates, Ismail told MEE.
> 
> Also, Jabbar Yawar, the official spokesperson of the Peshmerga ministry in Erbil, denied in a telephone interview that foreigners join the Peshmerga forces.
> 
> We have no decision regarding foreign volunteers. There is no decision or desire in the Ministry of Peshmerga for any forces from any other nationalities to join the Peshmerga forces, he said."
> 
> Hmmmm...................


'No decision regarding foreign volunteers, there is no decision or desire.'

Sounds like they don't know what is going on.


----------



## GWPlver

BrattyPatty said:


> What are you personally forced to do that is against your religion, joeysomma?


Interesting question!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> Can't stay long, but I feel like I can add something to your post. I listened to a Navy Vet that was on a phone interview. His name is Chris Toney, he and other vets are fighting with the Kurds against ISIS. These are men that fought as soldiers in the US military, retired , and can't stand by and watch these people be slaughtered. Chris said that ISIS plan is to destroy Christians, then Jews and then Kurdish Muslims. He also told that when the media talks about the kurdish/ vet army holding back a large army of ISIS fighters, that is because of the great air defense the French are giving them. Chris claims they could not survive without the help of the French air power. It's not what the main stream governmedia's are reporting.


Txs, hadn't heard this yet. The Vets will always look out for their brothers.


----------



## BrattyPatty

GWPlver said:


> Same here - got flowers in and did put in a couple of tomato plants. I am heading out soon in search of herb plants - that is my focus this year.


I wa thinking the same thing myself, GW. When I woke up to 2 inches of snow on the ground I changed my mind.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

Gali, who are you looking at to come out on top in the primaries from those you hope will run?


----------



## Country Bumpkins

GWPlver said:


> Same here - got flowers in and did put in a couple of tomato plants. I am heading out soon in search of herb plants - that is my focus this year.


I love herbs. I have to get me another lemon verbena. I love the tea and so do the grands. Mine dies every year.


----------



## GWPlver

galinipper said:


> 'No decision regarding foreign volunteers, there is no decision or desire.'
> 
> Sounds like they don't know what is going on.


Well, it is the Middle East - doesn't surprise me.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're welcome! I didn't write all I remembered, but I do remember all those crazy stories she posted. I cannot take credit for the laughter - that was all written by Huck, not me.
> 
> You cannot make that stuff up! I used to laugh so much and heartily, I would stop my regular breathing. I often thought how funny I must look looking at a computer monitor and laughing until I cried.
> 
> Is the "successes" thread the one where Bratty Patty thought being told she was sheepish turned her into a sheep? Another KPer alerted me to a thread where I posted a couple of times, and yet again, laughed so much I cried. Maybe it was that thread?
> 
> I had to leave after another KPer told Bratty it was time to dust her nightstand (more enlightening). That comment did me in. I nearly cracked a rib over that one and haven't returned to read since. :-D


I just skip that thread. I think they should start a new one on the Successes of Hillary Clinton. Since Hillary cannot answer those questions, perhaps the libs on KP could come up with a list and email it to her campaign HQ prior to her announcing her run for president. This way Hillary will be primed and ready to go. What difference at this point does it make if the successes are true or not?


----------



## GWPlver

Country Bumpkins said:


> I love herbs. I have to get me another lemon verbena. I love the tea and so do the grands. Mine dies every year.


Me too!!! One year, my plant grew quite large and we had such a mild winter, that it came back. This year it did not make it so I hope to find more. I also like to grow lemon grass. I don't use it but it's an attractive plant and smells good. A friend of mine has a Myer lemon tree and when that thing blooms, it's smells divine!


----------



## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> I just skip that thread. I think they should start a new one on the Successes of Hillary Clinton. Since Hillary cannot answer those questions, perhaps the libs on KP could come up with a list and email it to her campaign HQ prior to her announcing her run for president. This way Hillary will be primed and ready to go. What difference at this point does it make if the successes are true or not?


 :XD: OMG - you are too funny. Your idea would serve them well, 'cause they got nothin'! Except the KP Libs couldn't come up with anything either considering their thought processes.

If the truth came out and the MSM wasn't so liberally biased, Hill wouldn't even be allowed to register for the debates. Instead, she'd be signing her felon paperwork.


----------



## susanmos2000

galinipper said:


> Do you have something to add to yesterdays interview with Chris Toney?
> 
> I didn't think so.


I do. He's a moron. Going overseas to fight alongside factions you know next to nothing about is insane. Just because they're anti-ISIS doesn't automatically make them Boy Scouts--many of these groups are considered terrorist in their own right. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

GWPlver said:


> Me too!!! One year, my plant grew quite large and we had such a mild winter, that it came back. This year it did not make it so I hope to find more. I also like to grow lemon grass. I don't use it but it's an attractive plant and smells good. A friend of mine has a Myer lemon tree and when that thing blooms, it's smells divine!


I have 2 lemons trees but no lemons. I leave them out. Maybe if I bought them in for the winter I could have some lemons. I love the smell of lemons.


----------



## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Gali, who are you looking at to come out on top in the primaries from those you hope will run?


For me it is way to early. I forget but could look it up, of the amount of money that Cruz raised. It was shocking.

I don't have a big check list of what they need to promise to do. My main concern is our currency and economy. The Fed. Reserve came out the other day with the news that they can't agree on when the interest rates should be raised. To me that translates into 'We don't know what to do'. These are questioable times, that's for sure.


----------



## galinipper

knitpresentgifts said:


> Gali, who are you looking at to come out on top in the primaries from those you hope will run?


For me it is way to early. I forget but could look it up, of the amount of money that Cruz raised. It was shocking.

I don't have a big check list of what they need to promise to do. My main concern is our currency and economy. The Fed. Reserve came out the other day with the news that they can't agree on when the interest rates should be raised. To me that translates into 'We don't know what to do'. These are questioable times, that's for sure.


----------



## galinipper

susanmos2000 said:


> I do. He's a moron. Going overseas to fight alongside factions you know next to nothing about is insane. Just because they're anti-ISIS doesn't automatically make them Boy Scouts--many of these groups are considered terrorist in their own right. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.


I'm glad to have given his name or you would never have known anything about him.


----------



## GWPlver

galinipper said:


> I'm glad to have given his name or you would never have known anything about him.


Having not heard about this until now, I appreciate you putting the info out there. I did google and read a few items. Always a good thing to try to stay informed.


----------



## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know enough about Rand but something is holding me back for supporting him presently. I don't know why, because when I hear him speak, I seem to be in agreement. Yet, I must have heard something in the past that makes me cautious of him.
> 
> At this point, I agree, the Repub Party needs new blood. Yet, Rand appeals to some of the Libertarian youth and those young adults and middle aged adults who want their privacy (NSA) and freedom of speech and less govt in their lives. (I do too.)
> 
> However, in comparisons, I believe Mark Rubio would appeal to many of the same people and would win a race over Rand for the Latino vote.
> 
> Huckabee would win the votes over Rand from the Evangelicals and people of strong faith.
> 
> Cruz, IMO, would win over Rand in all those categories, with perhaps a great number of Constitutional voters going for Cruz.
> 
> So, in my political estimation, Rand comes in second to any of those other candidates who I believe will run.
> 
> Walker probably beats Rand in all categories and appeals to the establishment voter most of all.
> 
> I presently do not like Jeb Bush, but I believe Rand will be second to Bush as well.
> 
> Like O'Reilly says, tell me where I'm going wrong?
> 
> It's exciting to me to watch this primary season which is about to begin.


It's early yet. I'm waiting for everyone to announce and will watch how their first few days go. I'm not a Jeb Bush fan, nor a Mike Huckabee or Rubio fan. I'm still listening to Cruz and Rand and will do the same with Walker when he announces.

I did like Rand's answer to a reporter that asked him a question about abortion. He said to ask Debbie Wasserman Shultz that question and when she got an answer from Debbie, to come back and he will answer her question. I like the way he isn't letting the MSM give the Republicans the gotcha questions and let the Democrats off easy. That obviously didn't work out so well for the last 2 elections.


----------



## galinipper

GWPlver said:


> Having not heard about this until now, I appreciate you putting the info out there. I did google and read a few items. Always a good thing to try to stay informed.


More than happy to do it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, maybe He holds to the old saying, If at first you don't succeed... :roll:


She was reincarnated and came back as a lower form of life. A serpent with a forked tongue I believe. Can we say SATAN! Now she's doing the church lady dance. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## soloweygirl

Gerslay said:


> First you were sure, and now you're pretty sure, and you have said a couple of times that if you weren't so busy at the moment or if you're computer wasn't acting up and deleting your posts that you'd look it up. Well I have looked it up and she did NOT say that ALL Jews are White Supremacists. Period!
> 
> You really need to own your part in all that transpired in that particular brouhaha that took place over a year ago, and stop playing the victim.
> 
> (FYI: "Some Christian traditions have it that at the Last Supper, Judas, the disciple who betrayed Jesus, was the 13th to sit at the table. However, the Bible itself says nothing about the order at which the Apostles sat. Also, the number 13 is not uniformly bad in the Judeo-Christian tradition. For example, the attributes of God (also called the Thirteen Attributes of Mercy) are enumerated in the Torah (Exodus 34:67). Some modern Christian churches also use 13 attributes of God in sermons.")


Seriously Gerslay, Own her part? PP doesn't take responsibility for what she has said or done. When it comes to taking responsibility, there is always an excuse as to why it can't happen.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> I now will declare you a LIAR and can proof it. Multiple lies.
> Not just missteps, Lies.


She is the queen of all LIARS Huck as we all know. I predict she will return and claim she is persecuted once again. It's what snakes do. Slither in the nether regions with the trolls.


----------



## Jokim

galinipper said:


> Can't stay long, but I feel like I can add something to your post. I listened to a Navy Vet that was on a phone interview. His name is Chris Toney, he and other vets are fighting with the Kurds against ISIS. These are men that fought as soldiers in the US military, retired , and can't stand by and watch these people be slaughtered. Chris said that ISIS plan is to destroy Christians, then Jews and then Kurdish Muslims. He also told that when the media talks about the kurdish/ vet army holding back a large army of ISIS fighters, that is because of the great air defense the French are giving them. Chris claims they could not survive without the help of the French air power. It's not what the main stream governmedia's are reporting.


Hi Gali, I've heard something similar spoken by a Middle Eastern lady being interviewed on TV. She said that ISIS is, and has been, saying, 'First Saturday, followed by Sunday'. Meaning first we (ISIS) eliminate those who worship on Saturday (Jews), then we go after those who worship on Sunday (Christians). Looking at their track record, there is no reason to disbelieve this.
:thumbdown:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter

knitpresentgifts said:


> She need not worry God has lots of blessings in mind for her when she's dead. Even unknowingly, she has reserved a place for herself. But we don't have to tell her any of this, she just told you she is Jewish, and, therefore, known for being smart.
> 
> Please let's not cast any more pearls to be trampled.


Good she said she is leaving.


----------



## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> I do. He's a moron. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.


You are the most pitiful American I've encountered on these threads.

You call the man who not only put his life on the line by enlisting in the military service to protect and defend your sorry self, but also returned to combat as a Vet to support active duty members deserving a title of "moron"?

Show me ONE combat military uniform that unless the company commander ordered differently, DOESN'T have an American flag patch attached to the uniform as is the REGULATION.

Too bad you are the person who married the snowflake who cut and run to the protections offered to Americans behind the borders of the USA when his home country was under siege.

I'll await your ridiculous and pathetic statement that you are a loyal American, don't believe in war but support the American military troops.

You disgust me and dishonor every military service member past, present and future.


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## Cheeky Blighter

galinipper said:


> 'No decision regarding foreign volunteers, there is no decision or desire.'
> 
> Sounds like they don't know what is going on.


No, that would be you. Low information or should I say no information.


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## Cheeky Blighter

susanmos2000 said:


> I do. He's a moron. Going overseas to fight alongside factions you know next to nothing about is insane. Just because they're anti-ISIS doesn't automatically make them Boy Scouts--many of these groups are considered terrorist in their own right. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.


What can you expect. As you say he is a moron. They don't want the likes of him over there as he only gets in the way of the real fighters and then someone will have to go rescue the idiot and probably die trying.


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## susanmos2000

galinipper said:


> I'm glad to have given his name or you would never have known anything about him.


Look, if the media has made a conscious decision not to cover these stories then they're acting responsibly--nothing could be worse than giving well-meaning Americans (particularly idealistic young people) the idea that this is a productive way to spend one's summer vacation. To anyone with a particle of common sense, these stories are neither heroic nor inspiring--just painful, like a slow-motion replay of _Titanic_ striking the iceberg.


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## knitpresentgifts

galinipper said:


> For me it is way to early. I forget but could look it up, of the amount of money that Cruz raised. It was shocking.
> 
> I don't have a big check list of what they need to promise to do. My main concern is our currency and economy. The Fed. Reserve came out the other day with the news that they can't agree on when the interest rates should be raised. To me that translates into 'We don't know what to do'. These are questioable times, that's for sure.


What you say about the Fed I have heard. I'm in agreement, I want what is best for our country; the borders, its citizens and The Constitution - which requires a robust economy.


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## Cheeky Blighter

knitpresentgifts said:


> What you say about the Fed I have heard. I'm in agreement, I want what is best for our country; the borders, its citizens and The Constitution - which requires a robust economy.


She lied again. She said she was leaving and here she is again. :XD: :XD:


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## susanmos2000

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are the most pitiful American I've encountered on these threads.
> 
> You call the man who not only put his life on the line by enlisting in the military service to protect and defend your sorry self, but also returned to combat as a Vet to support active duty members deserving a title of "moron"?
> 
> Show me ONE combat military uniform that unless the company commander ordered differently, DOESN'T have an American flag patch attached to the uniform as is the REGULATION.
> 
> Too bad you are the person who married the snowflake who cut and run to the protections offered to Americans behind the borders of the USA when his home country was under siege.
> 
> I'll await your ridiculous and pathetic statement that you are a loyal American, don't believe in war but support the American military troops.
> 
> You disgust me and dishonor every military service member past, present and future.


Thank you, KPG, for altering my original post to better suit your need to twist and distort. Here it is again--in full:

Susanmos2000:

I do. He's a moron. Going overseas to fight alongside factions you know next to nothing about is insane. Just because they're anti-ISIS doesn't automatically make them Boy Scouts--many of these groups are considered terrorist in their own right. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.

I stand by my original post. And will not respond to phony arguments based on your distorted version.


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## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yarnie, I'd love the answers to your questions too. There is a war raging against Christians, Jews and against Muslims who refuse to follow the ways of the Extremists. Christians particularly are being slaughtered and persecuted in practice and physically.
> 
> Today, finally, those heroes involved with the Fort Hood murders have been recognized and presented with the Purple Heart.
> 
> It is terrible how those persecuted are treated like the offenders of the crimes while our President ignores or criticizes the victims and even defends/protects the criminals.


ISIS is starting a "fund raising" campaign. They are demanding 24M for the release of captured Christians. Who actually believes ISIS will release these Christians once the money is received? ISIS is hoping the world will finance their campaign of terror and world Caliphate.


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## soloweygirl

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> I now will declare you a LIAR and can proof it. Multiple lies.
> Not just missteps, Lies.


Where's the proof? FYI, just because you declare something, doesn't make it proof.


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## knitpresentgifts

susanmos2000 said:


> Thank you, KPG, for altering my original post to better suit your need to twist and distort. Here it is again--in full:
> 
> Susanmos2000:


Hey, basalt, leave the country and try to raise your son to be a man worthy of being an American before he returns. I skipped requoting the really ignorant and more pathetic parts of your treasonous rant, the rest you stand by which proves you ARE the worthless American who wrote it.


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## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> Where's the proof? FYI, just because you declare something, doesn't make it proof.


Oh, geez, perhaps Huck should start with "proo*f*" reading before attempting to pro*v*e me a liar.


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## soloweygirl

galinipper said:


> Can't stay long, but I feel like I can add something to your post. I listened to a Navy Vet that was on a phone interview. His name is Chris Toney, he and other vets are fighting with the Kurds against ISIS. These are men that fought as soldiers in the US military, retired , and can't stand by and watch these people be slaughtered. Chris said that ISIS plan is to destroy Christians, then Jews and then Kurdish Muslims. He also told that when the media talks about the kurdish/ vet army holding back a large army of ISIS fighters, that is because of the great air defense the French are giving them. Chris claims they could not survive without the help of the French air power. It's not what the main stream governmedia's are reporting.


ISIS wants a world Caliphate. Everything they have done and are planning on doing is with that one goal in mind. Either join them or die. This is why Radical Islamists have to be destroyed.


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## knitpresentgifts

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good she said she is leaving.


My word, you are stupid. Have someone explain to you the Bible verse, its meaning and what I said.

Consider my response a gift to you and a free 'pearl of wisdom.'


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## soloweygirl

Country Bumpkins said:


> I said He gives us free will. That is our brain. You asked me a question again and I answered it with my knowledge. It has nothing to do with scaring you. God did not create sinners. Satan is the reason for sin.
> Do you have to always be so ugly to me?


CB, she does because she is afraid of you.


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## Huckleberry

Country Bumpkins said:


> A Christian is someone that believes in Jesus. The church maybe full of Christians but not born again. You have to ask Jesus in your heart and forgiveness for your sins to be Born again. Hi GW


Country Bumpkins,
that term is not familiar to all Christians around the Globe and more or less a local invention which some try to export into other countries. It is actually a "kicker" that means that Missionaries are being kicked out of Countries who reject that term. They like the old time Religion.


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## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good she said she is leaving.


Cheeky Blighter
you can place a bet that she will never do that and win with certainty.


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## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> ISIS is starting a "fund raising" campaign. They are demanding 24M for the release of captured Christians. Who actually believes ISIS will release these Christians once the money is received? ISIS is hoping the world will finance their campaign of terror and world Caliphate.


First up will be asking ransom or trade in kind for the Boston Muslim terrorist who was just found guilty of all charges brought against him. If that piece of evil doesn't get the death penalty in sentencing, he'll be worth a handsome sum.


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## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> ISIS wants a world Caliphate. Everything they have done and are planning on doing is with that one goal in mind. Either join them or die. This is why Radical Islamists have to be destroyed.


 :thumbup: Sadly, true.


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## knitpresentgifts

soloweygirl said:


> CB, she does because she is afraid of you.


Yep.


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## Designer1234

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She lied again. She said she was leaving and here she is again. :XD: :XD:


same old same old-- I don't know why she leaves herself open to criticism when she knows she will be back immediately, insert herself inconversations and insult us all again. Not too smart.


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## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What can you expect. As you say he is a moron. They don't want the likes of him over there as he only gets in the way of the real fighters and then someone will have to go rescue the idiot and probably die trying.


So true, Cheeky. I can't help noticing that Toney's "heroic" deployment lasted a total of thirty-six days--they must of tired of him real fast. No surprises there. How much use is a guy who has to haul an interpreter with him over the mountains, or be shown which rag-tag group of fighters to shoot at?


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## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are the most pitiful American I've encountered on these threads.
> 
> You call the man who not only put his life on the line by enlisting in the military service to protect and defend your sorry self, but also returned to combat as a Vet to support active duty members deserving a title of "moron"?
> 
> Show me ONE combat military uniform that unless the company commander ordered differently, DOESN'T have an American flag patch attached to the uniform as is the REGULATION.
> 
> Too bad you are the person who married the snowflake who cut and run to the protections offered to Americans behind the borders of the USA when his home country was under siege.
> 
> I'll await your ridiculous and pathetic statement that you are a loyal American, don't believe in war but support the American military troops.
> 
> You disgust me and dishonor every military service member past, present and future.


knitpresentgift
One of the finest Countries on this Earth does not believe in War and participates in none but has a very strong military. I hope that some day my beloved Country gets into the same position. You KPG are tuity fruity. Why is this guy fighting elsewhere when we have a shortage of Border Security? Please, explain. He seems to care not much about us but seeks recognition for aiding other Countries. Nice guy (sarcasm of course).


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## Cheeky Blighter

Designer1234 said:


> same old same old-- I don't know why she leaves herself open to criticism when she knows she will be back immediately, insert herself inconversations and insult us all again. Not too smart.


She tells some big whoppers too, Shirley. Devil's got her tongue! :XD:


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## soloweygirl

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, geez, perhaps Huck should start with "proo*f*" reading before attempting to pro*v*e me a liar.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Cheeky. I can't help noticing that Toney's "heroic" deployment lasted a total of thirty-six days--they must of tired of him real fast. No surprises there. How much use is a guy who has to haul an interpreter with him over the mountains, or be shown which rag-tag groups of fighters to shoot at?


susanmos200
had he done something constructive - like patrolling our Borders - he would not be in the News. See where I am going? His stint was a publicity stunt - simple as that.


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## Huckleberry

soloweygirl said:


> Where's the proof? FYI, just because you declare something, doesn't make it proof.


soloweygirl
Don't worry, I got plenty of proof.


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## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She tells some big whoppers too, Shirley. Devil's got her tongue! :XD:


Yes--and it's one he can keep!


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## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, basalt, leave the country and try to raise your son to be a man worthy of being an American before he returns. I skipped requoting the really ignorant and more pathetic parts of your treasonous rant, the rest you stand by which proves you ARE the worthless American who wrote it.


knitpresentgifts
full of lies again. You profess to never be unkind etc. etc. etc. What a lovely Christian you are.


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## Cheeky Blighter

:hunf:


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## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> She need not worry God has lots of blessings in mind for her when she's dead. Even unknowingly, she has reserved a place for herself. But we don't have to tell her any of this, she just told you she is Jewish, and, therefore, known for being smart.
> 
> Please let's not cast any more pearls to be trampled.


knitpresentgifts
not unlike you do I like a nice Life and got it. You peddling your cheap stuff is simply to enhance your life and if it works, you call it blessings. I call it returns for hard work.


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## Huckleberry

susanmos2000 said:


> I do. He's a moron. Going overseas to fight alongside factions you know next to nothing about is insane. Just because they're anti-ISIS doesn't automatically make them Boy Scouts--many of these groups are considered terrorist in their own right. Aligning yourself with them is about the dumbest thing anyone could do--especially when you broadcast your name to the whole world and post pictures of yourself in full battle gear with an American flag stuck on your chest.


susanmoss2000
this guy looks like one of those Jew haters - know whom I mean? Encountered plenty of those. They never show their eyes.


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## susanmos2000

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :XD:


 :XD: :XD:


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## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She is the queen of all LIARS Huck as we all know. I predict she will return and claim she is persecuted once again. It's what snakes do. Slither in the nether regions with the trolls.


Cheeky Blighter
yes, and she is not even coy about it. Attacks with lies and cries a river when caught. Correction threatens with a Lawyer. How many members does this thread have and how many have the need to threaten with a Lawyer? The big number of ONE, Madam KPG holds that record.


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## Huckleberry

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, geez, perhaps Huck should start with "proo*f*" reading before attempting to pro*v*e me a liar.


knitpresentgifts
you are a Liar and for all to see,read and confirm. Go choke on the lies you spit out so fluently. No confession booth can help you to reverse that.


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## Huckleberry

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :XD:


Cheeky Blighter
what a lovely and smooth bottom.


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## Cheeky Blighter

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> you are a Liar and for all to see,read and confirm. Go choke on the lies you spit out so fluently. No confession booth can help you to reverse that.


Don't forget Huck, she is in the 1.0%, ooh so impressive and she actually believes it :XD:


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## Cheeky Blighter




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## Cheeky Blighter

:shock:


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## susanmos2000

Huckleberry said:


> susanmoss2000
> this guy looks like one of those Jew haters - know whom I mean? Encountered plenty of those. They never show their eyes.


That's probably all for the good, Huck. Behind those shades I'm sure lies a real treat--two eyes rolling around in their sockets, Quasimoto-style. I'm truly appalled by his story--turns out the guy's American comrades in arms were culled, sight unseen, from his Facebook account. He came home in one piece, but let's face it--the kindest thing his family could do would be to hide the car keys and burn his passport.


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## Country Bumpkins

soloweygirl said:


> CB, she does because she is afraid of you.


I think you are right. :shock:


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## Country Bumpkins

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins,
> that term is not familiar to all Christians around the Globe and more or less a local invention which some try to export into other countries. It is actually a "kicker" that means that Missionaries are being kicked out of Countries who reject that term. They like the old time Religion.


Ok then they have been saved by a God that sent His Son Jesus. All Christians know what I am talking about.

John 3
John 2
John 4
John 3 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.

3 Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]

4 How can someone be born when they are old? Nicodemus asked. Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mothers womb to be born!

5 Jesus answered, Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit* gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, You[c] must be born again. 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.[d]

9 How can this be? Nicodemus asked.

10 You are Israels teacher, said Jesus, and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaventhe Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.[g]

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
John Testifies Again About Jesus

22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized. 24 (This was before John was put in prison.) 25 An argument developed between some of Johns disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26 They came to John and said to him, Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordanthe one you testified aboutlook, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.

27 To this John replied, A person can receive only what is given them from heaven. 28 You yourselves can testify that I said, I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him. 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegrooms voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.[h]

31 The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32 He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33 Whoever has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for Gods wrath remains on them.*


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## Cheeky Blighter

knitpresentgifts said:


> My word, you are stupid. Have someone explain to you the Bible verse, its meaning and what I said.
> 
> Consider my response a gift to you and a free 'pearl of wisdom.'


You are the swine and I am the pearl you fool. You said you weren't gong to cast pearls before swine. That means you will not waste your time here. Get thee behind me! :XD:


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## knitpresentgifts

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> you are a Liar and for all to see,read and confirm. Go choke on the lies you spit out so fluently. No confession booth can help you to reverse that.


Pro*v*e it. I've never made a confession in a booth in my entire life and never intend that I will. You're so smart, you should know that 'my type of Christian' whose *is* known widely around the world, but unbeknown to you, doesn't require a booth to confess sins.

You get yourself some help, okay?


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