# doesn't anyone Right patterns anymore??



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board. 
Patty


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

I am with you on this. I absolutely hate charts and can't be bothered with them. I look through knitting magazines in stores and if they lean heavily toward charts I don't buy them. If a pattern looks interesting but is only in chart form, I don't buy the book.
I even wrote to one of the prominent magazines once and asked them if they couldn't put all their patterns in both forms. The answer I got was lack of space. If that is the case why not give some in written form and eliminate some with charts only? If the answer is that most people prefer charts I would like to know how they know that? I was never asked.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


----------



## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

I am an old hand at knitting, having started seriously when I was about 15, nearly three decades, two children and lots of gifts later and I am nearing the end of my first charted pattern. 
I didn't have any option, because I REALLY wanted to make this cardigan and a chart was all it offered. By the time I had blown up the chart size and been through it with various coloured highlighters, I actually found it a lot easier than I anticipated and easier to keep track of the repeats than in a written pattern.
And now I have a new skill!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


copyright and copywrite ?


----------



## loriekennedy (Jan 3, 2012)

i learned knitting by a chart, I think its easier than written pattern.


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Shouldn't that be "seriously"?


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


you are correct, I don't always check my spelling. OOPS
Patty
It looks like I stirred up a mess with my spelling error. Sorry. What I really wanted to find out is if anyone writes knitting patterns anymore. I've been looking for a rectangular lace that I can adapt into the shrug for my son's wedding. Ravelry has many lovely patterns but so far I've found 2 that I can make out. One has a chart along with written directions and I can see where the chart is helpful, but I don't think I'm ready to jump into charted knitting without directions to refer back to. 
Patty


----------



## IncognitoDar (Feb 27, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


You ean wright and right ... or don't you "write" patterns?? lol


----------



## loriekennedy (Jan 3, 2012)

Patty Sutter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


your not the first or the last to make a mistake, it happens to all of us even tho some might not admit it!!


----------



## MamaBonz 55 (Sep 24, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> I am with you on this. I absolutely hate charts and can't be bothered with them. I look through knitting magazines in stores and if they lean heavily toward charts I don't buy them. If a pattern looks interesting but is only in chart form, I don't buy the book.
> I even wrote to one of the prominent magazines once and asked them if they couldn't put all their patterns in both forms. The answer I got was lack of space. If that is the case why not give some in written form and eliminate some with charts only? If the answer is that most people prefer charts I would like to know how they know that? I was never asked.


Well now, there may be several reasons why magazines rely heavily on charts: a chart takes much less space to print than written instructions. That makes is less expensive to produce. Plus they can include more projects in an issue by saving the space needed for written instructions.

A chart can be understood by anyone who knows how to knit, regardless of the language they speak/read. That means there are more potential subscribers/purchasers.

I happen to prefer charts because they're so much easier to follow once you take a little time to get familiar with the symbols. There aren't very many for basic knitting and there is always a key either at the pattern itself or on a special page.

A chart would have been so handy for a pattern I recently wanted to make. It was written in Norwegian - a language I don't know - and even though I put it through several online translators, the written instructions were still impossible to follow. Fortunately the designer included detailed photos of the project so I was able to figure it out and make my own chart.


----------



## Urith (Apr 19, 2011)

Hilary4 said:


> I am an old hand at knitting, having started seriously when I was about 15, nearly three decades, two children and lots of gifts later and I am nearing the end of my first charted pattern.
> I didn't have any option, because I REALLY wanted to make this cardigan and a chart was all it offered. By the time I had blown up the chart size and been through it with various coloured highlighters, I actually found it a lot easier than I anticipated and easier to keep track of the repeats than in a written pattern.
> And now I have a new skill!


I'm with you on this, I thought I'd never follow a chart, but after knitting a shawl, I really do find it much easier., I put the pattern in the printer and enlarged it, which is a great help (I had to learn how to do that as well)


----------



## Linday (Jan 22, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Right and write.


----------



## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

I had never learned how to read a chart before, so went searching on Youtube to see if there were videos - and of course there are, and they are very clear.

Having a pattern with a chart instead of written instructions means I can use a pattern from any language. Just like the care labels on yarn and clothing now use universal symbols, knitting and crocheting are also universal.


----------



## nanma esther (Aug 22, 2011)

i need writen pat to go with chart, i'v tried to make the aston shawl and its greek to me,and i have used charts before,but now the the charts are not complete and that confuis my tired old brain, and yah i make lots of type o's and i've been knitting for 50 yrs and it seems thing are supposed to be ezr but i don't find that to be true always


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Right is a direction: the opposite of left.

Wright is someone who makes something like a shipwright or a wheelwright.

Write is to put words down in sentences on paper.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

If you knit something and make a mistake in it, if you can "read" your knitting, you can immediately see exactly where the mistake is on what you knit, compare it to the chart, and know what to do.

If you're following written instructions, you almost have to rip back to the beginning and start over.

Being able to read your knitting is a skill that's going to save you lots of errors and let you know where you are and where to pick the pattern. Learning to read a chart will probably help you with that.

I'm about to write a pattern for a beautiful shawl I designed. It wil have a chart for part of it. The chart will take up a whole 8.5x11 sheet of paper, but if I had to write it out in words, it would probably run about 12 pages. And you'd _never_ be able to find the right spot to rip back to in order to fix an error


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Think the word is "write".


----------



## fayemike (Dec 4, 2011)

There are hundreds of knitting patterns on the web and you could google what you are looking for.


----------



## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


and, also: write.


----------



## amethystlady2 (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't even look at a pattern if it only has a chart...there are some of us who can read and write, but the charts don't really make a lot of sense to me either...

Heaven help us if they start doing ONLY charts!


----------



## London Girl (Dec 18, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


I guess it also means that become usable in any language in this multiculteral age?


----------



## silverseamer (Feb 12, 2012)

If this entire post had been charted, NONE of the typos or grammar oopsies would be an issue!


----------



## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

I agree and much prefer the written word, however....it is good for our brains to keep challenged. Do plug along. Like the kitty!


----------



## paljoey46 (Nov 20, 2011)

I love the written instructions too. But, as I've gotten older, I find I don't follow complicated written patterns, such as lacy ones, as well as I used to. I just finished my first lace project from my first chart, and found it to be much easier to do with fewer mistakes. I have a magnetic board to put my pattern on and as I do a few stitches, I can move a small magnet along thereby eliminating mistakes,or at least most of them.


----------



## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't mind charts... I concur that it's easier or clearer when using written instructions; but, it's good to get accustomed to charts.


----------



## Caroline19 (Jun 6, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


I have to admit, I have resisted patterns that only have charts. However, I found a pattern last week for a beautiful lacy cowl and I had the perfect wool for it so I printed off the pattern only to find it was charted with few written instructions. Well, I'm surprised how easy the chart has been. I did find that I have to keep a straight ruler at the line I'm working on to prevent my eye moving to the line above or below the one I'm actually working on. I am going to start one of Stevieland's shawls this summer so this has been good practice for the shawl. I guess it's like everything else, the more practice...the easier it gets!!


----------



## joannem602 (Feb 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


How about "write"?


----------



## iris925 (Apr 22, 2011)

I guess I didn't know better when I started with charts back in the '80s. I found 'Anna' magazine, a German publication that was being translated into English. I fell in love with the wonderful patterns, but they were all in chart form and only a little bit of clarification and general directions given at the beginning of each pattern. I actively look for charted patterns rather than written ones as I find it so easy to make mistakes when only having a written one.


----------



## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

iris925 said:


> I guess I didn't know better when I started with charts back in the '80s. I found 'Anna' magazine, a German publication that was being translated into English. I fell in love with the wonderful patterns, but they were all in chart form and only a little bit of clarification and general directions given at the beginning of each pattern. I actively look for charted patterns rather than written ones as I find it so easy to make mistakes when only having a written one.


Good for you.


----------



## Gamquilter (Dec 29, 2011)

Or write?


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

lostarts said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


And 'right' also means correct


----------



## iris925 (Apr 22, 2011)

Caroline19 said:


> I did find that I have to keep a straight ruler at the line I'm working on to prevent my eye moving to the line above or below the one I'm actually working on.


The way I keep my place on charts is to put the pattern in a clear plastic sleeve (the kind that you keep in 3 ring notebooks). I then cut a narrow strip, about 1/4" (7-8mm) of masking tape the length of a line/row of the chart. Placing this tape directly below the line/row on the chart that I am knitting stops the confusion of where I am in the pattern. When the row is finished I move the tape to the next row. Since it is on the plastic nothing is messed up and I can use the pattern chart over and over if I wish.


----------



## joannem602 (Feb 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


How about "write"?


----------



## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

I use a magnectic board and strips to attach. I put this ABOVE the row I am about to do. This way I can check what stitch the one I am about to do should be over and so can quickly pick up mistakes- often before I make them, but at least on the next row. I to am getting used to using charts and starting to think they might be better than written patterns. Definitely for colour work, but have done a few lacy patterns (but nothing big yet) and think it might better for this too. But I guess to some extent it different learning styles- some cope with one better than others, but also what we are used and so most of us could learn charts if we tried- and maybe like a few of us have said find that they are actually easier to read.


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


How about "wright" and "write" ? If you're going to make fun of someone's spelling, make sure YOU'RE correct!


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

joannem602 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


It's a shame that someone here has to take a jab at someone else, isn't it?


----------



## paljoey46 (Nov 20, 2011)

I found a MAGMA knitting pattern holder. It can be positioned any direction, has a magnet strip, 3 small magnets and a pen. I place the magnet strip at the row I'm working, some highlighter tape on the row above it and use one of the small magnets to slide along the chart row as I work. And if you are adding beads to your project, the magnet makes a handy place to put your hook.


----------



## sasvermont (Mar 3, 2011)

marylo12 said:


> joannem602 said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


It does seem petty, doesn't it? I was confused when I read the topic, but thought it was a new term for proofing a pattern before publishing it! Didn't bother me a bit. I make mistakes all the time. We all do. So why comment? Who knows. Different strokes for different folks.

I, too, have tried to avoid charts. I will confess that when both options are offered, I go to the written but use the charts to have it make sense when I become lost. Maybe one day I will only use a chart!

I love learning new things, so I should challenge myself and learn charting.


----------



## jersgran (Mar 19, 2012)

my sister-in-law handed me a pattern that was given to her by someone who had been to China. She laughingly said translate this please? I seriously said "of course" Inside was a chart!! She now knows how easy charts are. They are invluable, once you figure them out.


----------



## Buttons (Feb 11, 2011)

U go Courier770! Glad to see you back.

Karen


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

I felt the same way about chart reading until I learned how to do it. Now it's easy, (just like so many aspects of knitting that at first had me stumped).


----------



## mairmie (Jun 16, 2011)

I think charts would be alright if my little brain could sort them out! My problem is knowing/remembering where rhe repeats begin and end. One little block to the left or to the right and there goes the whole pattern! Perhaps I need to find a good tutorial on reading charts, Any suggestions?


----------



## ducksalad (Aug 16, 2011)

I used charts when I was much younger (about 30 years ago) then only found written. I'm used to written and prefer it. But some of you make the chart seem easy once you get used to it again. So, I'll have to see.


----------



## London Girl (Dec 18, 2011)

mairmie said:


> I think charts would be alright if my little brain could sort them out! My problem is knowing/remembering where rhe repeats begin and end. One little block to the left or to the right and there goes the whole pattern! Perhaps I need to find a good tutorial on reading charts, Any suggestions?


Have you tried the one that comes with the Ashton Shawl? I'm not a big fan of charts but will use them if I have to.


----------



## sandisnow44 (Jul 1, 2011)

Someone on this forum once suggested a book, "Charts Made Simple" or something like that. (Maybe one of the readers knows the right name.) I got it from the library and read it from cover to cover. I had needles and yarn close by so I could try all the lessons as I finished a chapter. I finished the book and still can't knit from charts.:-( So I went through all my patterns and weeded out any that only had charts. (I'd print them out cause I liked the pattern and hoped to learn to "read" them.) I hope and pray they never go to just charts. If they do, I'll just have to stick with all the patterns I have which is enough to keep me busy for a long, long time. And if any one is wondering about how much experience I have, I learned to knit when I was 9 years old and in August I'll be 68. I've done lots of sweaters(adult and baby), Fisherman afghans, caps, socks, even a full length coat...So I know what I'm doing. But you can keep those charts! (I hope my spelling is correct. We seem to have someone here who appointed herself the spelling police.)


----------



## baglady1104 (Apr 10, 2011)

Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


----------



## kjchamberlain1 (Mar 27, 2011)

Patty, I am just a new designer these past 2 years and I am writing and charting my patterns. Yes, it is true some of the patterns like those from Japan only chart there designs. I know I did this for my husbands sweater he wanted. It was clear till I got to the decreasing rows and then I turned to the translator to clearify what they meant. But I like things both ways myself for exactly that reason, Clearity.


----------



## DeeDeeF (Mar 29, 2011)

you rock baglady


----------



## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

Paradise has members from all over the world. If we print a pattern in English that leaves a lot of people out. If we make it a chart everyone can make the pattern.
I have seen several pleas for translating a pattern. I have also seen that the translations leave a lot to be desired. Charting does not need to be translated.
I urge you to try a charted pattern with written instructions. Seriously try to use the chart only. You might find it easy. Best tip for me was to color code the stitches. Red squares=knit, blue square=purl, etc. jinx


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

mairmie said:


> I think charts would be alright if my little brain could sort them out! My problem is knowing/remembering where rhe repeats begin and end. One little block to the left or to the right and there goes the whole pattern! Perhaps I need to find a good tutorial on reading charts, Any suggestions?


Dee has a great tutorial that goes with her Ashton Shawl.


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


Your rite !


----------



## sharbeary (Feb 6, 2012)

Sharon Dryfus aka She-knits writes and chats all her patterns and they are lovely. You can find her on Rave;ry.


----------



## marylin (Apr 2, 2011)

I use to use charts but now think the written pattern is easier for me.

I have a magnetic board to mark the to I am on. Than I knit away !


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Or write?


----------



## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

Seems a lot of the trouble in the USA is the "dumbing down" to those who don't want to be bothered to read or write proper English or learn to do it. Everyone's brain must be slowly turning to mush as evidenced if you have ever watched the "person on the street segment" of Jay Leno. I once read over a final exam for eighth grade students that was given as a standard test over a hundred years ago and it was as hard or harder than a college entrance exam today! I think we deserve more credit that we are being given. Look how proper grammar has become almost unrecognizable, even in the media. If we don't stand up for what we want, it will be lost.


----------



## msacco53 (Nov 26, 2011)

If you are talking about script, the word is WRITE.


----------



## gramj (Mar 21, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Don't you mean "write" instead of "wright?"if you are going to criticize spelling, you had best not have any spelling errors in your reply


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Torticollus said:


> Seems a lot of the trouble in the USA is the "dumbing down" to those who don't want to be bothered to read or write proper English or learn to do it. Everyone's brain must be slowly turning to mush as evidenced if you have ever watched the "person on the street segment" of Jay Leno. I once read over a final exam for eighth grade students that was given as a standard test over a hundred years ago and it was as hard or harder than a college entrance exam today! I think we deserve more credit that we are being given. Look how proper grammar has become almost unrecognizable, even in the media. If we don't stand up for what we want, it will be lost.


Snopes debunked that 'test' quite some time ago. It wasn't real. Over 100 years ago the majority of kids didn't get as far as 8th grade before they had to stay home to take care of younger siblings, work the farm or go work in the mills. The reason for the child labor laws that some of our potential leaders want to abolish was to keep these children in school and help them get a better educational grounding.

Charts allow us to take advantage of techniques and patterns coming from other cultures; sparking interest in those cultures. As a nation we are terribly xenophobic. Crafts like knitting help us overcome that.


----------



## Kayebaby (Sep 23, 2011)

When I knit from a chart I use a post it to keep my place. I have been known to write symbols and their explanation on the post it so I don't have to refer back to the key. Many of the symbols are standard and the more I knit with charts I find myself remembering their meanings. It's much like learning a new language but without having to worry about my accent.


----------



## pengwensgranny (Aug 3, 2011)

The only time I even consider using a chart is if it is for a 'picture' in the knitting. For example, at present I am knitting cardigans for my grand-daughters with Mickey Mouse on the back. I follow the written instructions for the main knitting and follow the chart for Mickey, then back to the written instructions. 
I for one,find this easier than trying to follow a chart for the main knitting.
We are all individuals and all have our own preferences for everything.
The world would be a dull place if we were all the same in everything we did. What would we have to discuss?


----------



## chrissyf (Jan 21, 2012)

I am the same way about knitting from a graph...i am a new knitter so what i do if i want to make a graphed pattern...i take the time to write it out line for line. It is a tedious process but that way i get to do a wonderful pattern and work in a way that i easy for me. I know that eventually i will be able to work from a graph but right now i write out graphed patterns on my own for the security of it. Of note i am an experienced crocheter from graphs and even design them i am just not yet skilled enough in knitting to follow graphs


----------



## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


OH, man really...its easy to confuse the two words just like four, for. Are we into correcting ones spelling that much? Hay even those dern toys that are phones screw up now and then in fact more than that. Give it a break already. Must be nice to be perfect. does this mean she can't go out for recess?


----------



## Charlotte80 (Jan 24, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


ROFL, U Go Gurl!


----------



## Sheri-Lynn (Nov 20, 2011)

I can read both, but I think what has helped on this is that I learned early to do needlework, cross stitch, embroidery.etc. using charts.


----------



## Aud36 (Aug 20, 2011)

London Girl said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!
> ...


shouldn't that be multicultUral


----------



## tjb2 (Apr 24, 2011)

For some of us where English is second language even so I am a Canadian citizen now at times it can be frustrating thread a pattern the way there written. BUT,symbol charts are international and myself I can always see where I am in the pattern and don't have tomorro about of my senior moments if I can remember the 3rd repeat. Pictures are worth a thousand words at times.
Sorry to be of disappointment to you.


----------



## tjb2 (Apr 24, 2011)

No one is perfect &#128079;&#128144;


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Or maybe even 'write'. :|


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Definitely copyright.


----------



## knottyknittershop (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks flower power for the Youtube idea. I have been trying to teach myself to use charts recently for shawls with repeats. I like the patterns that are written and also include charts, so that I can check my chart reading against the written instruction when I have a question. My main difficulty seems to be remembering to read left to right on the wrong side.


----------



## tjb2 (Apr 24, 2011)

Crocheting in any language is he easy way with a chart, I have done several doilies that were is Russianand ALL ICAN DOIN THATLANGUAGE IS EAT...SLEEP AND DRINK.&#127856;&#128538;&#128516;

Love Charts


----------



## Bekaknits (Mar 31, 2011)

I used to feel the same way. then i had to learn to read charts and i found that they are much easier to understand, especially when there are a lot of repeats of a pattern. when i get a pattern without charts now i take the time to make my own chart to follow. i'm glad i took the time to learn. i hope you will give it a try.

Beka


----------



## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
It clearly marx for my revew Miss Takes I cannot c.
I've run this letter thru it as u can planely cee, 
It's letter perfekt in it's wai,
My pea see tolled me so!


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I agree Cathy47 - For some on this site English is a second language & for the rest of us, we sometimes just make a mistake, it happens! I'm soooooooo tired of Courier criticizing everyone. I know she thinks she's perfect but I find she makes many mistakes. She just doesn't own up to them. Sorry about the rant, I guess I won't be going out for recess either.


cathy47 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


And what about write?


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

These charts may be all right for some people, but for me, I like the written word. All the more reasons for holding on to our written patterns. Someday, these might come back into fashion. (No pun intended.)


----------



## Vignewood (Apr 18, 2011)

Your misspelling is probably not your fault. My iPad, which I love dearly, is forever changing the spelling of words on me and I don't always catch the. Who else has this problem?


----------



## Vignewood (Apr 18, 2011)

Sometimes charts are necessary.


----------



## farmgirl (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm with you! Hate charts so much I'll actually not attempt what looks like a great pattern.


----------



## Marilynf (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


or the difference between 'wright' and 'write'.


----------



## Marilynf (Oct 7, 2011)

sorry, I hopped on before I saw that someone already addressed 'write' as being 'right'. Maybe you are a 'wright' if You're the worker writing the pattern. Isn't the English language interesting?


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

Vignewood said:


> Your misspelling is probably not your fault. My iPad, which I love dearly, is forever changing the spelling of words on me and I don't always catch the. Who else has this problem?


I don't have one of these fancy phones, (mine was designed by Adam and Eve), but I did see a 'thing' on the internet once where people had put in what there 'predictive' phones had done. Some were VERY funny and some were VERY rude. I think there were some that had been sent to another office by secretaries etc and because they hadn't checked first what the phone had predicted, there were some very red faces!!!!!


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

funkyknitter said:


> baglady1104 said:
> 
> 
> > Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.
> ...


Jest luv it!


----------



## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


lol!!!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I've found that this great change to pictures instead of words is very frustrating. They do it on labels, directions, even street signs! I read words automatically, but I have to decipher these goofy pictures. Why, oh why???!


----------



## Marilynf (Oct 7, 2011)

Marilynf said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Wow I sure should have read the whole thing before I started to type! Lots of people commented on the 'right' 'wright' 'write' business. I thought the original poster meant doesn't any one make patterns the RIGHT way anymore (as opposed to the wrong way) I like 'em written also.


----------



## Anna3703 (Mar 4, 2012)

.......and write.......


----------



## PYRM (Dec 11, 2011)

write you are


----------



## SusanYEngland (Oct 25, 2011)

My problem with charts is that they are often too small to be easily followed. Of course, I don't understand why some of the symbols are needed when K, P, PSSO, etc. could be placed into the chart instead. It is easier when I am working along than constantly going back to the key to see what is needed.

If I have to use a chart, I sometimes use Microsoft Excel to rewrite it in a size and language that I can actually see. Perhaps the rewriting also get's the basics of the chart into my head before I start. 

I guess it all comes from feeling half blind sometimes. :shock:


----------



## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

whataknitwit said:


> Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> It clearly marx for my revew Miss Takes I cannot c.
> I've run this letter thru it as u can planely cee,
> It's letter perfekt in it's wai,
> My pea see tolled me so!


This is hysterical! Thanks for the laugh....I am still laughing as I am replying to this post!


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've found that this great change to pictures instead of words is very frustrating. They do it on labels, directions, even street signs! I read words automatically, but I have to decipher these goofy pictures. Why, oh why???!


Perhaps they call it progress lol. One thought though, maybe using pictures etc instead of words is for the benefit of the people from other countries who can't speak the language of the country they are visiting. I went over to Portugal a couple of years ago, and found the pictures easy whereas I had absolutely no knowledge of the language. 
Same as with knitting patterns. Graphs are universal.
Just my thought.


----------



## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I do not believe anyone mentioned that some people cannot read. I was going to say illeterate, but I do not know how to spell it and I want to go out for recess.
Anyhow, if you cannot read the written word, a chart would be helpful for you.
I hope the original poster of this message realizes that most of us are ashamed that someone would dare write such a rude response. jinx illiterate


----------



## PYRM (Dec 11, 2011)

OH! whataknitwit. I love it


----------



## Rusty's Mom (Sep 25, 2011)

I do not use charts. When I learned to knit back in the 60s I did not use them. I notice that several of us have posted that they did not start with charts and now the charts are hard to use because they are not as used to them as someone else is who started knitting using charts. For myself, if there is a pattern and I see a chart with it, I will just skip the pattern. I think that if the charts were larger and the symbols were easier to figure out (like k, p should be in the chart where you are to knit and purl) then I might try one if I could find one big enough to see. This is a problem for me--I have found no chart that is big enough to see. I hope that written patterns stay around a long time.


----------



## mamahen (May 26, 2011)

Funny you mentioned this book, "Charts Made Simple--understanding knitting charts visually", by JC Briar. I just ordered it from Amazon and am in the process of reading it.

So far, so good. I'm having a few "light bulb moments" as the fog in my brain is beginning to lift. Ha.

I have too many chart-only patterns not to learn this process. (Guess I'll always be a student at heart--went back to college at age 40 to complete a degree that was begun right out of high school.) At age 71, I hope there are a few brain cells left. Ha.

Now if I could only learn all of the processes that changed on my computer when I recently had to have the hard drive replaced. Some of my old procedures don't seem to work.



sandisnow44 said:


> Someone on this forum once suggested a book, "Charts Made Simple" or something like that. (Maybe one of the readers knows the right name.) I got it from the library and read it from cover to cover. I had needles and yarn close by so I could try all the lessons as I finished a chapter. I finished the book and still can't knit from charts.:-( So I went through all my patterns and weeded out any that only had charts. (I'd print them out cause I liked the pattern and hoped to learn to "read" them.) I hope and pray they never go to just charts. If they do, I'll just have to stick with all the patterns I have which is enough to keep me busy for a long, long time. And if any one is wondering about how much experience I have, I learned to knit when I was 9 years old and in August I'll be 68. I've done lots of sweaters(adult and baby), Fisherman afghans, caps, socks, even a full length coat...So I know what I'm doing. But you can keep those charts! (I hope my spelling is correct. We seem to have someone here who appointed herself the spelling police.)


----------



## nozizweoriginals (Oct 13, 2011)

I must say that I love charts, especially for crochet. However I think it's helpful to have patterns written out as well. So I guess you could say that there is no "write" answer. Yes I know it's right ; ).


----------



## Coopwire (May 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


write?


----------



## Dakota Sun (May 25, 2011)

I personally like the written out instructions for knitting and etc. I will not use charts they get me so flustrated . Sorry this is just my opinion.

Happy Mothers Days Ladies.
Dakota Sun


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

Anyone who does counted cross stitching, and some embroidery will find a graph and a chart..I would think knitting off a chart would be about the same .


----------



## London Girl (Dec 18, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## London Girl (Dec 18, 2011)

jinx said:


> I do not believe anyone mentioned that some people cannot read. I was going to say illeterate, but I do not know how to spell it and I want to go out for recess.
> Anyhow, if you cannot read the written word, a chart would be helpful for you.
> I hope the original poster of this message realizes that most of us are ashamed that someone would dare write such a rude response. jinx illiterate


Hear, hear!!


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


correct! Writing anything is passe these days--you don't learn to write watching cable TV. It really isn't very hard to read charts if you are knitting in the round but if not then you have to understand that the chart may or may not include the "purl side" or wrong side and hopefully there are at least written instructions letting you know--sometimes not. It is great that a pattern designer is here amongst us reading all our conversations on what we think and how we knit--most of it can be blowing off steam. thanks for being with us.


----------



## Oma42 (May 10, 2012)

Charts give me the heebie-jeebies (how's my spelling?) but might be helpful for some knitters. I prefer a written description of a pattern by far. I make myself a little file using index cards which I tie together and write the instructions on each card. When I'm done with one step in the pattern I flip to the next card etc. Much better than trying to decipher an instruction printed in teensy letters, loosing your place and so on.


----------



## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

I have a question....did anyone not understand what Patty Sutter's first post was referencing? I am sure that everyone knew what the post meant. So why the negative comment from Courier770? Just plain mean!
I love the comments that were posted regarding Courier770's post....too funny. I say that we all get some of Courier770's patterns and sell them....Only kidding Courier770, I wound not want you to have copy write lawsuits all over the world!


----------



## EqLady (Sep 1, 2011)

I always used written out directions (and actually wrote them out line by line on index cards) until I made Dee's Ashton shawl. Now I find charts much easier and turn away from written-out patterns.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Coopwire said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


of course we do--we just don't always do things correctly that's why we "ripit" once in a while. Right meaning something is correct or you are using your "right" hand and write is putting something on paper or typing instructions on your 'puter and wright--well I would put Orville in front of it and fly off to my next knitting project. :lol:


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

silverseamer said:


> If this entire post had been charted, NONE of the typos or grammar oopsies would be an issue!


 :thumbup:


----------



## 1cleaner (Aug 24, 2011)

I like the written patterns best, my opinion that the charts are more difficult to follow.
and this is a friendly forum no need to be rude about a simple mistake we all have made. my 2 cents


----------



## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

Torticollus said:


> Seems a lot of the trouble in the USA is the "dumbing down" to those who don't want to be bothered to read or write proper English or learn to do it. Everyone's brain must be slowly turning to mush as evidenced if you have ever watched the "person on the street segment" of Jay Leno. I once read over a final exam for eighth grade students that was given as a standard test over a hundred years ago and it was as hard or harder than a college entrance exam today! I think we deserve more credit that we are being given. Look how proper grammar has become almost unrecognizable, even in the media. If we don't stand up for what we want, it will be lost.


I agree with you. We all learned spelling and grammar in school. I can understand a grammar mistake once in a while, but not 3 or 4 mistakes in one paragraph. I know that there are many people on this forum who live in other countries and English is their second language. I don't expect them to have perfect grammar, as English is a hard second language to learn. But some foreign people speak and write better grammar than Americans.

I also don't understand typos. Even this program underlines a misspelled word, unless it's a homonym. (Example: write, right, and wright.) If we don't use correct grammar and spelling, what are we telling our children and grandchildren? That it's okay? That they don't need to learn it? That it's not necessary?


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


LOL!


----------



## yankeecatlady (Jun 3, 2011)

I love knitting lace shawls and I use only charts. I find it much easier. I am less likely to lose my place. It also helps me to "see" the design.
I am 60 years old and learned just this past year. So, you can teach an old dog new tricks!
Still haven't mastered a crochet chart, yet.


----------



## Blumoon (Mar 23, 2012)

How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make any more comments! 
I find charts to be a little confusing but I am interested in learning new things so I consider it a challenge. I am a new knitter and look forward to accomplishing new projects that seem daunting. 
I come here to learn and see what others are working on, not to get caught up in someone's lack of decency. Live and let live.
I hope in some way pointing the finger at someone made your day better. It has made mine better because it's given me an example of what I don't want to be like. Thanks courier!


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

darowil said:


> I use a magnectic board and strips to attach. I put this ABOVE the row I am about to do. This way I can check what stitch the one I am about to do should be over and so can quickly pick up mistakes- often before I make them, but at least on the next row. I to am getting used to using charts and starting to think they might be better than written patterns. Definitely for colour work, but have done a few lacy patterns (but nothing big yet) and think it might better for this too. But I guess to some extent it different learning styles- some cope with one better than others, but also what we are used and so most of us could learn charts if we tried- and maybe like a few of us have said find that they are actually easier to read.


the metal board with magnetic strips works for me also. and you are right whatever works for us is the way to go. I just started knitting with colors again--took the Latvian Mitts class by Beth Brown-Reinsel, a wonderful designer and instructor, where stitch techniques are combined with twining colors and a chart is a must otherwise, as previously pointed out, I would be ripping out constantly. (will post a picture when I finally finish)


----------



## SharonM (Nov 25, 2011)

or.... "right" "wright" and, of course correctly.... "write" !!!!



courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


----------



## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

I do not like charts so I write them out for myself.It works for me.


----------



## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Torticollus said:
> 
> 
> > Seems a lot of the trouble in the USA is the "dumbing down" to those who don't want to be bothered to read or write proper English or learn to do it. Everyone's brain must be slowly turning to mush as evidenced if you have ever watched the "person on the street segment" of Jay Leno. I once read over a final exam for eighth grade students that was given as a standard test over a hundred years ago and it was as hard or harder than a college entrance exam today! I think we deserve more credit that we are being given. Look how proper grammar has become almost unrecognizable, even in the media. If we don't stand up for what we want, it will be lost.
> ...


But you have to admit, those who stayed in school were smarter than our kids today. Even those who stayed home were probably smarter than our eighth graders.

I'd like to know how many people know what xenophobic means? Probably not many; that's okay. It's not an common word. But how many looked it up in the dictionary? I did.

Thank you jbandsma for teaching me something new today.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

Blumoon said:


> How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make anymore comments!
> I find charts to be a little confusing but I am interested in learning new things so I consider it a challenge. I am a new knitter and look forward to accomplishing new projects that seem daunting.
> I come here to learn and see what others are working on, not to get caught up in someone's lack of decency. Live and let live.
> I hope in some way pointing the finger at someone made your day better. It has made mine better because it's given me an example of what I don't want to be like. Thanks courier!


Well said and you're right--where did she go? It isn't the first time she was rude and condescending and it won't be the last. I agree with an earlier post--I certainly hope the original poster realizes no one is making fun of her. And how many of us really misunderstood the first post? How lucky are we to have a pattern designer, copyright/legal expert and English teacher among us. Let us count our blessings!!


----------



## Butterfly1943 (May 26, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


How about "write"?


----------



## bevqual (May 9, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions?
> Patty


I don't know how to even write a chart? My patterns are all written in English words. 
http://www.bevscountrycottage.com/patterns.html


----------



## Oma42 (May 10, 2012)

There is no place for rudeness and condescension here. Unfortunately some people have a need to feel superior which is actually a sign of low self esteem. Hope you all have a great Mother's Day if you're a mom. If not, have a great day anyway.


----------



## Peachie6560 (Feb 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Help me..the word is "write."


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Yeah - Joy! I'm with you! My husband and I correct aloud people on TV who do not use adverbs properly or for any mistake we hear. We hear lots of "me and" and no "ly" on adverbs, and we find people don't know the correct usage of "bring and take", "good and well", "who and whom" and "sell and sale." We are certainly not perfect, but we correct ourselves when we knowingly screw up!

You and I would get along perfect(ly)!


----------



## SIML (Jan 2, 2012)

I just purchased an old, "Love of Knitting" magazine because it had an article on reading charts , "You can read charts". I was so surprised to find that when you are looking at the chart, you are looking at the piece from the front. That pretty much made reading charts easy. Had that been explained to me in such simple terms earlier, I may have been more willing to try charts. Prior to reading that I felt that the charts had been designed to torture knitters! Now I think I will try them.


----------



## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

Vignewood said:


> Your misspelling is probably not your fault. My iPad, which I love dearly, is forever changing the spelling of words on me and I don't always catch the. Who else has this problem?


You are correct about that. Sometimes the program wants to put in their own words. That's why I proofread everything or use the preview button before I send something. But sometimes it just changes it back to the wrong word. Who programmed that thing? If that's the case, I just usually delete that word and use a synonym instead.


----------



## Finnsbride (Feb 8, 2011)

I don't see well and the charts are nearly impossible to follow. Give me a well written pattern every time.


----------



## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


The correct term is copyright, because the copyright protects the RIGHT of the creator to their work, and to make some profit off it.

"write" has to do with writing, and since the poster is asking for "written" patterns as opposed to charted one, that would be correct there.

And I am a retired legal secretary who had an English teacher for a Mother, so yes, I deal or have dealt with BOTH terms....a LOT! *CHUCKLE*

And, according to the dictionary "Wright" is as follows:

wright   [rahyt] 
noun
a worker, especially a constructive worker (used chiefly in combination): a wheelwright; a playwright.

So,. technically, we knitters could be called "yarnwrights" *grins*


----------



## DollieD (Mar 7, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


Ditto...double ditto!


----------



## ptspraker (Apr 13, 2012)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


Me two!!!!


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

I think if anybody learns to read a chart they will never switch back to a written pattern. I take a extra step in my chart reading I color coordinate the knitting symbols with the chart. I have the chart blown up for lge. printing and color the boxes in to match the symbols.


----------



## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

grandmann said:


> I think if anybody learns to read a chart they will never switch back to a written pattern. I take a extra step in my chart reading I color coordinate the knitting symbols with the chart. I have the chart blown up for lge. printing and color the boxes in to match the symbols.
> 
> This works for me, I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say. Wright


I have knitted from a chart once. I have no particular desire to do so again, but would if it was a pattern I particularly wanted to make.


----------



## JohnnyG (Nov 23, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


And "write"?


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

Butterfly1943 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


LOL How "knitpicky" of her!!!!


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Pattyhayw said:


> Blumoon said:
> 
> 
> > How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make anymore comments!
> ...


right you are! we all make mistakes and besides it caught my attention otherwise I might have gone on to the next topic.


----------



## domesticgod (Apr 6, 2011)

loriekennedy said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


I never make misteaks


----------



## ptspraker (Apr 13, 2012)

whataknitwit said:


> Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> It clearly marx for my revew Miss Takes I cannot c.
> I've run this letter thru it as u can planely cee,
> It's letter perfekt in it's wai,
> My pea see tolled me so!


I've laughed so hard at your reply, I can barely see to type.


----------



## Trishanne (May 3, 2012)

How about right and write ?


----------



## evesch (Apr 3, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


or is it write!


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

a said:


> whataknitwit said:
> 
> 
> > Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> ...


----------



## larsan (Apr 17, 2011)

I just want to jump in here on behalf of charts. I use both but I do not find charts intimidating once you try them and learn how to use them.

As with so many things in life, I find that people in general allow new situations to keep them from new experiences. 

So what I'm saying is - just jump in and try it. Do something small but give it a try. Then if you really don't like it, that's fine - but it's like eating something you've never eaten before. You might find that it's fun and enjoyable.


----------



## domesticgod (Apr 6, 2011)

Patty, I haven't done a charted knitting pattern before, but the first time I ran into a charted crochet pattern, I was going "what the heck is this supposed to be?" Now that I've learned how to read the crochet charts, I've found them to actually be a lot easier to follow than the written ones. I've seen numerous posts here on KP complainingabout the way instructions are written. The most frequent comment is that the author/writer/hen scratcher doesn't use easily understandable terms and abbreviations plus they don't put them anywhere on the pattern. If the charted knitting patterns are anything like the charted crochet patterns, I almost think I'd rather work from a chart. At least in crochet, the symbols are pretty much universal. 
When I was attempting a diamond border at the bottom of a sweater, I was having a lot of trouble following the directions, so I charted it out, the same way I would do a filet crochet pattern. Bingo! I breezed right through it.


----------



## Nonasdada (Apr 23, 2012)

Yesterday I was doing a dishcloth but wanted to modify it slightly, so I did a chart. It is much easier for me now to follow. I also do cross stitch so I am accustomed to charts.


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

Ask4j said:


> Pattyhayw said:
> 
> 
> > Blumoon said:
> ...


You are so right about Courier. In fact, I only see her on this section and that's to make a critical/condescending comment.
Has anyone ever seen a nice or uplifting comment from her in the "pictures" section?


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

MamaBonz 55 said:


> Joy Marshall said:
> 
> 
> > I am with you on this. I absolutely hate charts and can't be bothered with them. I look through knitting magazines in stores and if they lean heavily toward charts I don't buy them. If a pattern looks interesting but is only in chart form, I don't buy the book.
> ...


Let's see:

blank sq = knit
dot = purl
^ = k2tog
ok so far?

Now supposed the chart key looks like this:

- = knit
| = purl
/ = k2tog

And you can't read the key because you only speak German. Or how about MMMario's charts with A, M, W, and @. That's gonna confuse English speakers, never mind ESL'ers and non-English speakers/readers.


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

larsan said:


> I just want to jump in here on behalf of charts. I use both but I do not find charts intimidating once you try them and learn how to use them.
> 
> As with so many things in life, I find that people in general allow new situations to keep them from new experiences.
> 
> So what I'm saying is - just jump in and try it. Do something small but give it a try. Then if you really don't like it, that's fine - but it's like eating something you've never eaten before. You might find that it's fun and enjoyable.


I like your yarn bowl!


----------



## henhouse2011 (Feb 20, 2011)

copyright has to do with your rights as a designer. Write refers to writing a letter, a book, a pattern. And this discussion is why charts are taking over...no ambiguity in a chart. Everything is laid out for you as in a road map. You can see the repeats, you can mark off the row you have just completed. No reading the same sentence twice. Oh yeah, I love charts and I am 82


----------



## Frannitty (Oct 13, 2011)

I love the charts.
I love "sticky notes".
Yes, they are related!
You use a sticky note to isolate the row you are working on.
It took me a while to get the idea in to my head, but I now sometimes MAKE a chart for written patterns.
Mothers day here in USA==have a happy on e


----------



## Janneylynn (Dec 9, 2011)

I crochet more than knit , especially lately,, since I found a couple things I really want to make. I like both the chart and the written. But if I had to choose, I think I would take the chart. It's easier for me to follow.

Just because ,Not everyone writes out the written pattern carefully, or clearly. With a chart you can see exactly what stitch etc...


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

When I learned to crochet from my mother, we didn't use patterns...someone taught her the basic granny square stitch and the basic chain, double crochet stitch and that's all she used. That's all I learned and all I used. Then I stopped crocheting for over 30 years. One day I was at Walmart and looking in the craft aisle for supplies for my class at work and I happened down the yarn aisle....wow....the urge to crochet again hit me and I was off and running...LOL...( it wasn't my first time down the yarn aisle but the urge just didn't hit me before that....I guess it's true that there is a time and a place for everything...LOL)...then I got hooked into this group and started learning about different patterns and projects....but I had a heck of a time learning to read a crochet pattern....and just to LOOK at a knitting pattern gives me fits!!!...LOL...I've seen charted patterns and shied away from them because, as I said, it took me FOREVER to learn to read a written pattern...but after reading the testimonies of people on here saying it's actually easier, maybe it's time for me to sit down and really LOOK at a chart pattern.....but now there's the dilemma of finding out if they even MAKE charted patterns for crochet....I still haven't learned to knit, by the way...LOL..I get frustrated and put it down where I can't see it for awhile...LOL....but I'll pick it back up someday and try try again!!!!!


----------



## dachsmom (Aug 23, 2011)

Totally agree with blavell. Didn't know we were going to get graded on our grammar. Has she ever used a tablet with the auto fill? I get all kinds of errors that the tablet fills in for me. Like I don't make enough of my own! But to the REAL topic...I prefer patterns that give you both the charts and the written instructions. The only time I have used charts exclusively was in color work.


----------



## knitknack (Oct 30, 2011)

I am right alongside of you when it comes to charts, especially being a leftie when it comes to knitting and crocheting. Mybrain is taxed enough reversing written patterns, but with charts, my feeble brain cannot take anymore, and so I stay away from patterns with charts.


----------



## cathie white (May 29, 2011)

and "write"!


courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

honeydewhaven said:


> Torticollus said:
> 
> 
> > Seems a lot of the trouble in the USA is the "dumbing down" to those who don't want to be bothered to read or write proper English or learn to do it. Everyone's brain must be slowly turning to mush as evidenced if you have ever watched the "person on the street segment" of Jay Leno. I once read over a final exam for eighth grade students that was given as a standard test over a hundred years ago and it was as hard or harder than a college entrance exam today! I think we deserve more credit that we are being given. Look how proper grammar has become almost unrecognizable, even in the media. If we don't stand up for what we want, it will be lost.
> ...


I don't know about the USA, but in the UK the schools have gone through an absolutely ridiculous time of telling children to write the word as it sounds. There is a name for it but I'm not a teacher so can't remember, but it has created a whole generation of children who have great difficulty in spelling. My husband and I have received letters from people who have obviously been taught this way and their spelling is dreadful. Companies don't seem to mind if their staff can spell or not. It's true that people from other countries where English is their second language, do use the correct words and spellings etc.


----------



## SHER HARLING (Nov 20, 2011)

Do you mean right as in correct, or write as in written instructions, or wright as in skilled worker?? The written English language can be so tricky to write &#9786;!


----------



## MTNKnitter (Jun 11, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Shouldn't that be "write"


----------



## cathie white (May 29, 2011)

As this posting seems to have veered towards the use/misuse of words in English, I'll add another pet peeve---"your not---"---did you mean "you are not---"? If so, the contraction is"you're" NOT "your". "Your" is used to show ownership--your book, your house, etc. There, that's off my chest!


domesticgod said:


> loriekennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Patty Sutter said:
> ...


----------



## janette777 (Jun 11, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


In Canada the correct written word is write - guess it all depends on our location and our education and most of all our computer skills in typing. Actually Courier I am curious, is "wright" the correct spelling in the US? - just wondering. I know some of your words are different.
For some directions that can be compact I like the written way, but for anything complicated the charts really simplify for me and save turning pages and trying to find my place. I thing a lot of us are intimidated because of the way they appear. If you can somehow process the idea that it is similar to doing counted cross stitch it isn't hard at all. One square = 1 stitch and there is always a list of signs near the chart. Trying to look at a whole chart and figure it out is like looking at a whole page without reading the words. Try it (charts) and I bet you get to like it.


----------



## janette777 (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh dear, I am guilty - think, not thing lol


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

Blumoon said:


> How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make any more comments!
> I find charts to be a little confusing but I am interested in learning new things so I consider it a challenge. I am a new knitter and look forward to accomplishing new projects that seem daunting.
> I come here to learn and see what others are working on, not to get caught up in someone's lack of decency. Live and let live.
> I hope in some way pointing the finger at someone made your day better. It has made mine better because it's given me an example of what I don't want to be like. Thanks courier!


In the chat section Courier has been telling us about her DIL who had a baby yesterday, 4 weeks early. The baby is OK but she also gave birth to a dead twin. Her DIL has been very ill as well, so whilst I feel that she does tend to be a bit critical, I feel that things have been very difficult for her over the last few weeks or so. I know that not everyone reads every item on the KP forum, but I have read Courier's story and I just feel for her at this moment. I'm not critising anyone at all, just putting what I've read. 
I hope you don't mind my 'piggy backing' onto your comment, it was just the last one that I read that was saying something about Courier. I am NOT getting at you at all, everyone is fully entitled to their own opinion, but having read alot of comments on this forum, where someone is going through something that's difficult, everyone rallies round with thoughts and prayers, (if they have read about the sad circumstances).


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Now that I think about it, the pictures are great for people who can't read. I'm sure there are also some who can read but just find pictures and/or charts easier to use. I'd like pictures for them, and words for people like me who are picture-interpretation-challenged.


----------



## susanrs1 (Mar 21, 2011)

It took me forever to get the courage to make something with a chart. Once I did (a swing sweater) and got used to the chart I absolutely loved it. Now when I look for patterns all I seem to find are written ones. Before all I could find are chart patterns. How is this possible??!! Anyway, my advice is to find a relatively easy pattern and either go on You Tube or consult with your LYS like I did. It may take a while but I think you will find they are easy to read once you get the hang of it. Good luck and we want pictures!


----------



## dottie2 (Mar 22, 2011)

I personally prefer the written version. I'm not a fan of charts. A big Thank You to those who give both written & chart when designing patterns. 

Dottie


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Schipperke said:


> Blumoon said:
> 
> 
> > How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make any more comments!
> ...


Also, Courier later said that she'd sent it before reading it over. I felt that she didn't mean to be overly critical. Whatever the reason, we should definitely forgive someone who is in the midst of such sadness and difficulty. We should comfort her and not make her feel worse. Her correction of spelling was much less significant than the burdens she is currently bearing.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

For all of the spelling errors....I always blame mine on that dratted "Typonese"....it hits me when I least expect it....LOL


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cathie white said:


> As this posting seems to have veered towards the use/misuse of words in English, I'll add another pet peeve---"your not---"---did you mean "you are not---"? If so, the contraction is"you're" NOT "your". "Your" is used to show ownership--your book, your house, etc. There, that's off my chest!
> 
> 
> domesticgod said:
> ...


I think some of us just SEE those errors automatically. I know I do, and they make me cringe a little. BUT - I try not to criticize because I make SO MANY mistakes myself. It's just my brain wiring that causes me to see the spelling errors. Too bad it doesn't see all mine before I make them! Let's lighten up and be understanding of one another. We're all human - we all make mistakes and we all say things that don't come out quite right. We're just people, after all, and we're all in this together.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Did you know that people who do puzzles, play chess regularly and do crafts that rely on more than the written word have a much LESS chance of developing Alzheimers? Something about working with symbols and putting them together in a coherent manner actually protects the brain.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

marylo12 said:


> Ask4j said:
> 
> 
> > Pattyhayw said:
> ...


Hmmm--an uplifting comment.....Not that I remember.


----------



## Marny CA (Jun 26, 2011)

Copyright

It would be fair to say that not all people here have English as their mother tongue.

With the dwindling educational system here in the USA, smoke signals might be the new form of communication - along with texting. Ugh!



PaKnitter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


----------



## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

Do not worry about your spelling. Most of us know what you mean. This is a knitting site not a spelling site.


----------



## sevans214 (Oct 5, 2011)

A lot of patterns include both the written pattern and a chart so that you can choose either version.


----------



## Marny CA (Jun 26, 2011)

flohel said:


> Do not worry about your spelling. Most of us know what you mean. This is a knitting site not a spelling site.


You're 100% correct.

I try to ask only when I can't figure out what a person is saying.

Otherwise, my National Spelling Bee prowess didn't get to Winner, which means I make mistakes, too.

For misteaks, I ask for 'medium rare, please.'


----------



## Blumoon (Mar 23, 2012)

Well, whatever is going on in someone's life does not entitle them to be rude to others. Since you have singled my comment out.... You are welcome to think what ever you want about me. To be honest, it's none of my business. 

This is not the first time I've read something negative from this person. I think it's fair to say there must be an awful lot of bad things going on in her life, this according to your notion that it's ok and acceptable to treat people badly if your having a rough time. 

Everyone has struggles, its called LIFE! I choose not to mention mine in this forum if I can help it. And yes you were "getting at me" and here's my response! I had no intention of getting into any debates today but felt compelled to point out that Courier was a little off base. I don't agree with your acceptance of being a doormat to someone on the condition of what is going on in their life. I'm done being involved in this thread and really don't feel the need to defend my reaction to someone's negative behavior. I'm just calling it like I see it, if you don't agree that's ok.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Schipperke said:
> 
> 
> > Blumoon said:
> ...


I often say that there are the kindest, sweetest people on KP and these two posts confirm. It is very kind of you both to make excuses for Courier. If this was the first time she was mean to someone, I might agree. With everything going on with her grandchild and DIL (and I sincerely hope they will both be fine), she still took the time to make a snide/unkind remark about someone. Some people are just not nice. For the most part, we don't know what is going on in each other's lives. Many people might find KP a good distraction from the problems they face in life. So maybe a message isn't clear, or maybe there's a typo because the poster is a bit distracted, that doesn't give anyone a right to make snippy comments or call names (whiner--from a couple weeks back from someone who didn't like a high shipping charge). Some people are just not nice.


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I do the same when I see the pattern has a chart to follow. I have never tried to learn to follow a chart. My sister says she just loved the crochet patterns that have a chart to follow. 
I am going to, (one of these days)make something that is charted and see if I would like to do it or not.


----------



## Joanna88 (Oct 12, 2011)

I have several "Miss Bea" knitting patterns in booklet form...Louisa Harding all in chart form. I have used them time and again,in fact at my advanced age it does "the little grey cells"a power of good to work from charts rather than the written word,


----------



## jtreuter (Jan 16, 2012)

. . . .and write.


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

For those of you who say charts are too small: put the book or pattern on your scanner and scan at 300 dpi minimum. Then when you print out, you will have a larger, easier to see graph. If you don't have a scanner, check with your library to see if their copy machine has an enlarge setting. If it does, use it.

Copyright allows you to make a copy for YOUR OWN USE. As long as you are not sharing it in any form, this is legal.

Also, while post it notes are a good idea, I use highlighters on my copy of the graph. Keeps my place and it really doesn't matter if I mark it up since I'll be throwing it away when I'm finished.


----------



## ann-other-knitter (Mar 17, 2012)

About charts knitting/crochet. I have designed many sweaters/blouses/shawls but have never written the instructions down because it is so hard to explain how to do a certain stitch. There are two Prayer shawls which have been accepted for publication in prayer shawl books. It was so easy to make up a design and dreadfully difficult to explain myself. If I crochet I much prefer to read the charts such as in Magic Crochet magazine. Ann


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

I was a resister also. Thanks to KP's Stevieland, I have learned to read charts. And I must say I like it better, lol. Once you learn, you will not want to go back to all that written mumbo jumbo! Just give it a try before you judge, a good try, not a half hearted one!


----------



## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

LOL courier.. I think my little brain will be over taxed with learning charts.... I think thats why I shy away from them... that being said I do want to learn so I can expand my knitting experiance.. maybe do some FairIsle... but for right now the simpler the better...LOL



courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


----------



## Nonasdada (Apr 23, 2012)

Vignewood said:


> Your misspelling is probably not your fault. My iPad, which I love dearly, is forever changing the spelling of words on me and I don't always catch the. Who else has this problem?


Hi

On your ipad, if you go to Settings, then General, then Keyboard, you can turn the Auto-Correction off and your words will not be changed. I also turned off Check Spelling. It lets my typo in but it is less frustrating that all the changes it used to do for me.


----------



## seafox (Apr 6, 2011)

I am glad to read about this because I felt the exact same same way. I was opposed to them in the beginning, and I thought the designers should do both. I guess maybe many will still continue to do that, depending on the project. Some projects don't need charts for simplicity. 

But I think this is really about a learning curve issue in knitting, which means it is ultimately fun to do, and will be something you look back on and wonder why you doubted it would work. 

Most people have a rather universal desire to do what we already know will work,I sure do, and frequently we do not like that low level anxiety that we feel when trying something we are unfamiliar with. 

I hadn't put in any time trying to learn about how to read charts. Lots of help out there, I just hadn't done my homework. So I was ducking them with a passion. Id I saw chart I turned the page.

Yet one of the reasons I love knitting is learning new things. Sometimes they are just strange tips or unusual ways of making things. 

For instance, although not usually charted as lace or cable or colorwork is, right now there are a lot of geometric sweater or loose jacket patterns using rectangular pieces fitted together for shrug like arms and top back, with many ways of finishing off the cardigans. Some with pointy panels dropping down in the front and fold back parts. Some you can wear up or down or back to front. Until you actually make one of these things or a mock up, you sometimes just don't absorb how they are constructed.It's like Oragami. 
When you want to make one, and have it fit the way you want--you have to learn how it is put together so you can customize it. It's like that in any skill. You have to suffer a little to have satisfacton. It's part of the reason a quest is fun. You can certainly learn vicariously, but it sticks better to learn by doing. 

I am still not all fussy warm with charts, either, but I'm creeping up on them. I tried my first one of a snowflake lace pattern with a twisted rib for the leg of a sock. There are not as many stitches as a wide shawl. Because you could separate repeats on the double points, and use markers to further break them down, and because I put in lifelines, I got so I actually liked it. I got very confused at first--there were yo's at the beginnings of rows! But that wasn't the chart--that was a technique I had to learn, and lace is hard to rip back, but eventually I found it was like a puzzle and very relaxing and right brained, and much more instinctual looking at the chart than trying to read about something your hands are doing by processing things in a less linear way.
Hard to explain, I sort of learned to SEE the stitch coming up and not HEAR myself trying to tell me what it was. Much more intuitive. I've heard people state that knitting is a function of both right and left brain, and I think that is true becasue of the way we can sort of hypnotically zone out and keep knitting (right brain) and yet concentrate on a difficult pattern and sequence and make it work (Left brain.)BTW ripping back to a previous row is easier with a chart. You can find your errors so much more easily.

Charting works with these abilities in an efficient way--if you are a knitter you already have the type of mind to like the chart reading if you get used to it. 
I can see why it makes sense so much better now.

I intend to do more and more, forcing my mind around it until it gets easier and easier, because I know it is here to stay. 
In fact, after using the few lace charts I have, I can't imagine trying a complicated lace shawl with written instructions anymore. I always got lost. If you put markers between repeats, and look at the chart it is a lot easier. 

You do have to have ways to isolate your rows--post it sheets you can move, highlighting, magnetic chart holders, but that will fall into place. 
One thing for sure, you won't know until you try!


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


Funny! Well done.


----------



## ggclaudia (Jun 8, 2011)

How about the difference between right, wright and write?


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

Reading charts is sounding better to me the more I read about ones really liking it. Going to have to get busy and learn how.


----------



## chorbanxx (Mar 8, 2012)

Patti, I can understand your frustations. When I came to the USA in 1960, I had the problem with written out patterns.
I was used to follow graphs. A friend helped me to understand 
those long written out instructions. I in turn made her familiar with graphs. Later, when I tought knitting, I made sure everyone could use both.
Understanding graphs is not as difficult as it seems at first.
There are not too many symbols. Knowing them, one can read patterns written in another language without the need of a translation which may not always be correct. 
Chorbanxx


----------



## vancat (Apr 9, 2011)

I agree - no wonder charts are taking over from written English!


----------



## ggclaudia (Jun 8, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


I agree with Patty Sutter. I used to think & do just as she thinks and does. As soon as I saw charts I would put the magazine back on the rack. That is I did until I really wanted to knit Dee's Ashton Shawl. To knit it I had to learn to read charts. I am so glad I did! I also started using stitch markers more. Putting them on each end of pattern repeats makes it easier to see where you are in the chart, quicker to realize you have made a mistake and easier to find mistakes and correct them. Seeing a symbol on a chart makes at easier and faster than reading 'slip stitch, knit two together, pass the slipped stitch over'. Try it, you'll like it.


----------



## Susiebluel (Feb 12, 2011)

I think that they are just not willing to take the time to write out a pattern and then chart it. I rarely buy any that are just charted. I resent having to do all the extra work that I find necessary to successfully knit the pattern. I find that if something is only charted I lose my place or make mistakes. So, I find that I have to write each line out. Simple patterns I don't have that problem but a few had patterns of 50 or so rows that needed to be charted. I'm not willing to spend 8 or so dollars and then do all the work. You can probably tell that this is a pet peeve of mine.

Another pet peeve is all the mistakes that are in patterns. I had a sock book that had errata for 8 of the 19 patterns in the book. I contacted the publisher for a refund. They wouldn't refund it but they sent me the next revision of the book. I didn't feel I wanted to take the book back to my LYS as they bought the book in good faith and sold it to me the same way. I find that to be constant also.


----------



## seafox (Apr 6, 2011)

I am glad to read about this because I felt the exactly the same way. I was opposed to them in the beginning, and I thought the designers should do both. I guess maybe many will still continue to do that, depending on the project. Some projects don't need charts for simplicity. 

But I think this is really about a learning curve issue in knitting, which means it can be fun to do. In my case I looked back and wondered why I doubted it would work. 

We have a rather universal desire to do what we already know will work,I sure do, and frequently I do not like that low level anxiety that I feel when trying something I am not familiar with. 

I hadn't put in any time trying to learn about how to read charts. Lots of help out there, I just hadn't done my homework. So I was ducking them with a passion. If I saw chart, I turned the page.

Yet one of the reasons I love knitting is learning new things. Sometimes they are just strange tips or unusual ways of making things. 

For instance, although not usually charted as lace or cable or colorwork is, right now there are a lot of geometric sweaters or loose jacket patterns using rectangular pieces fitted together for shrug like arms and top back, with many ways of finishing off the cardigans. Some with pointy panels dropping down in the front and fold back parts. Some you can wear up or down or back to front. Until you actually make one of these things or a mock up, you sometimes just don't absorb how they are constructed.It's like Oragami. 
When you want to make one, and have it fit the way you want--you HAVE to learn how it is put together so you can customize it. It's like that in any skill. You have to suffer a little to have satisfacton. It's part of the reason any quest is fun. You can certainly learn vicariously, but it sticks better to learn by doing. 

I am still not all fussy warm with charts, either, but I'm creeping up on them. I tried my first one of a snowflake lace pattern with a twisted rib for the leg of a sock. 

In socks there are not as many stitches as a wide shawl. Because you could separate repeats on the double points, and use markers to further break them down, and because I put in lifelines, I got so I actually liked it. I got very confused at first--there were yo's at the beginnings of rows! But that wasn't the chart--that was a technique I had to learn, and lace is hard to rip back, but eventually I found it was like a puzzle and very relaxing and right brained, and much more instinctual looking at the chart than trying to read about something your hands are doing by processing things in a less linear way.
Hard to explain, I sort of learned to SEE the stitch coming up and not HEAR myself trying to tell me what it was. Much more intuitive. 

I've heard people state that knitting is a function of both right and left brain hemispheres, and I think that is true because of the way we can sort of hypnotically 'zone out' and keep knitting (right brain) and yet concentrate on a difficult pattern and sequence and make it work (Left brain.)BTW ripping back to a previous row is easier with a chart. You can find your errors so much more easily.

Charting works with these abilities in an efficient way--if you are a knitter you already have the type of mind to like the chart reading if you get used to it. 
I can see why it makes sense so much better now.

I intend to do more and more, forcing my mind around it until it gets easier and easier, because I know it is here to stay. 
In fact, after using the few lace charts I have, I can't imagine trying a complicated lace shawl with written instructions anymore. I always got lost. If you put markers between repeats, and look at the chartas those segments, it is a lot easier. 

You do have to have ways to isolate your rows--post it sheets you can move, highlighting, magnetic chart holders, but that will fall into place. 
One thing for sure, you won't know until you try!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

right on


----------



## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


And even "write!"

Right=correct, morally good, justified, or acceptable
Wright=one who crafts, ie, a wheelwright makes wheels
Write=Mark (letters, words, or other symbols) on a surface, typically paper, with a pen, pencil, or similar implement

Sorry, it's the teacher in me. :lol:

And while I'm ranting, I'll just throw this in: the Southern US colloquial second person plural is "y'all" (you all) not "ya'll." That's like writing do'nt for do not! OK, that's all. ;-)


----------



## maisey67 (Aug 30, 2011)

Just follow the hints given by the previous knitters and don't give up. A whole new world opens up when you master chart knitting. Be patient with yourself and ask questions.


----------



## judsretired (Apr 14, 2011)

I agree with you I hate charts. If I see a pattern written in chart form (if it is a short chart) I will write it out so my brain can understand it.
Also (the person that complained) whats with the sniping about spelling errors. Not all of us made A's in spelling while in school.
This is about knitting not spelling. It might be better for all of us if we respected people more.
Judy


----------



## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I think some of us just SEE those errors automatically. I know I do, and they make me cringe a little. BUT - I try not to criticize because I make SO MANY mistakes myself. It's just my brain wiring that causes me to see the spelling errors. Too bad it doesn't see all mine before I make them! Let's lighten up and be understanding of one another. We're all human - we all make mistakes and we all say things that don't come out quite right. We're just people, after all, and we're all in this together.


I'm so glad you said this because I'm another one of those people blessed (cursed?) with an editorial eye. But you're correct that we don't see our own errors because we see what we meant to put down. When I was teaching, we teachers always proofread for each other, and we taught our students to do the same. Maybe we should just be like the Elizabethans and spell like we pronounce!


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Or, write?


----------



## Bocciball (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi Patty, on Ravelry there are many patters that are offered in both chart and written form. The best part is that many are free. 

The owner of my local yarn shop told me that once I learn how to read charts, I won't return to the written patterns. I think that will happen when pigs can fly.

Good luck.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

amethystlady2 said:


> I don't even look at a pattern if it only has a chart...there are some of us who can read and write, but the charts don't really make a lot of sense to me either...
> 
> Heaven help us if they start doing ONLY charts!


I used to feel that way about knitting charts, but since I love crocheting from charts exclusively, I've made an attempt to learn knitting from charts also. It's coming along slowly. I definitely will only crochet from charts- sooo much easier!


----------



## josiehof (Feb 28, 2011)

Hi,

I also hate charts. All Drops patterns are in chart form. I am not going to do anymore of their patterns. It's a shame, their patterns are so pretty.

josiehof


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

chrissyf said:


> I am the same way about knitting from a graph...i am a new knitter so what i do if i want to make a graphed pattern...i take the time to write it out line for line. It is a tedious process but that way i get to do a wonderful pattern and work in a way that i easy for me. I know that eventually i will be able to work from a graph but right now i write out graphed patterns on my own for the security of it. Of note i am an experienced crocheter from graphs and even design them i am just not yet skilled enough in knitting to follow graphs


What a great idea.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

judsretired said:


> I agree with you I hate charts. If I see a pattern written in chart form (if it is a short chart) I will write it out so my brain can understand it.
> Also (the person that complained) whats with the sniping about spelling errors. Not all of us made A's in spelling while in school.
> This is about knitting not spelling. It might be better for all of us if we respected people more.
> Judy


As teacher I cringe when I see misspelled words but I'm not the grammar police so I let it go....plus, I make typos all the time if I don't take the time to proof-read before I hit "send"...LOL


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

whataknitwit said:


> Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> It clearly marx for my revew Miss Takes I cannot c.
> I've run this letter thru it as u can planely cee,
> It's letter perfekt in it's wai,
> My pea see tolled me so!


Oh, how adorably whimsical! Thank you for that.


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

I wonder what one person gains by criticizing another? I think we are all guilty of it. Some people more than others. I catch myself doing it every day and don't feel good about it after I have done it. I think we all need to stop and think before we speak/react to another's flaws or mistakes. Please forgive me if I have made any grammatical errors in my post.


----------



## maravill (Feb 24, 2012)

LOL Its all right I will write it.


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Guess I've been lucky as I've never seen any charts. What is very annoying to me was I paid over £2 for a King Cole VERY difficult pattern and the numbers didn't work right on the foundation row... I was able to figure it out and emailed them and they sent an addendum which should have been in the pattern


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

If years Ago children only finished the 8th grade and then had to work to help out at home, then I'd guess these kid's learned more by the 8th grade of teaching then they do today who "Graduate" . 
The fact that kid's had to deal with reality back then surely did not hurt them. They are our strength and backbone of today. For the most part anyway. jmo


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Sorry I hit the send button twice.


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

I have also steered away from charts. I suppose I should buck up and give them a try as well.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

Thank you all for your support! I never meant to cause such angst. It is nice to know that as a 'newbie' I am accepted, warts and all.
I will try charted knitting someday soon thanks to your advice. But probably on this truly special project made with expensive silk yarn. 
And yes I will probably run spellcheck more often.   
Patty


----------



## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I think I read every post and did not see this mentioned. A picture is worth 1,000 words. I think that is true when it comes to charts and written patterns. Try it, maybe you will like it. jinx


----------



## Steeleye (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm okay with charts or patterns. What I'm trying to find is a pattern stand with a ruler that will keep my row highlighted or underlined so it's easier to keep my place. Back when I did clerical work, there was a stand you could hook to your desk. It would hold the paper you were typing from & could be advanced either with a finger tap. Some models had a pedal for advancing the paper. An adaptation for knitting charts? I'd love it.


----------



## krankymax (Mar 5, 2012)

I write patterns in filet crochet, i use just enough words to get started, then the rest is in chartted format. It is the sign of the times and everything changes over time.


----------



## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


And you do understand the difference between write and wright? Please don't scold someone else's spelling when your's is also incorrect.


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> Thank you all for your support! I never meant to cause such angst. It is nice to know that as a 'newbie' I am accepted, warts and all.
> I will try charted knitting someday soon thanks to your advice. But probably on this truly special project made with expensive silk yarn.
> And yes I will probably run spellcheck more often.
> Patty


Patty, you are a good sport! And I promise you will love reading charts. I've been knitting 1 1/2 years, avoided charts but finally dove in. At first I said, "I can't do this", then I felt like a quitter, tried again immediately and love it! I feel so special now!


----------



## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

Good grief! The spelling/grammar errors kept getting worse and I wasn't sure if at one point, people were doing it on purpose as a joke!


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

not everyone is p erfect, courier


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

better watch your spelling, nanma, or courier will get after you.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

gypsie said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you all for your support! I never meant to cause such angst. It is nice to know that as a 'newbie' I am accepted, warts and all.
> ...


You've been knitting for 1 1/2 years? Lord I feel old. I've been knitting for 49 years. Maybe that is why I've resisted for so long. Old dogs and new tricks, you know. I've always said 'never stop learning', I guess this is another learning opportunity. 
Patty


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

marylo12 said:


> joannem602 said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


You are absolutely right, marylo. Why are people are so perfect that they have to be rude. It's happened to me on this KP sight before and it makes me want to dislike that person and avoid her.


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


LOL, baglady


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> If years Ago children only finished the 8th grade and then had to work to help out at home, then I'd guess these kid's learned more by the 8th grade of teaching then they do today who "Graduate" .
> The fact that kid's had to deal with reality back then surely did not hurt them. They are our strength and backbone of today. For the most part anyway. jmo


I agree, responsibility matures a person. We got our chores done first, play second.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

MrsC said:


> Cheryl Jaeger said:
> 
> 
> > If years Ago children only finished the 8th grade and then had to work to help out at home, then I'd guess these kid's learned more by the 8th grade of teaching then they do today who "Graduate" .
> ...


Kids are learning less and less nowadays anyway....heck, I just found out that they no longer teach cursive writing in school!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## gdhavens (Jul 21, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Write?


----------



## MamaBonz 55 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jokim said:


> amethystlady2 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't even look at a pattern if it only has a chart...there are some of us who can read and write, but the charts don't really make a lot of sense to me either...
> ...


Me too, Jokim! I just wish there were more charted crochet patterns. It seems like most of the ones I have are just written. So often I have to sit down and chart my own from the crochet directions.

One of the other good things about charts is that I can print them out on card stock and laminate - or cover with clear tape or clear contact paper - then stick it in my knitting bag to carry around. No need to bother with long written out instructions, whether for knit or crochet.


----------



## KnottyMe (Mar 8, 2012)

I can follow patterns both written or charted. However, I don't believe the charts remove ambiguity....some are more ambiguous, and there are not solid rules that we all follow. There is always some guesswork.

So, if I can follow either pattern, does that mean my brain is ambidextrous???? Come and get me.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

And my personal favorite is, "Eats, shoots and leaves." This was originally used to describe the food of a panda!


----------



## burdo39 (Apr 8, 2011)

What about write


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

RitaMarie said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


That's why we have an edit button!
:lol:


----------



## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Hello everybody......I can't knot without a pattern.....or even knit!!!!!!sp


----------



## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


Oh deary me.......That's not a nice thing to say about us English? OR have I misread it?


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


I hope you meant that ironically. My father only had a 3rd grade education. Some things would sometimes be not quite right grammatically, but he had a good job and there was love in the house.


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> gypsie said:
> 
> 
> > Patty Sutter said:
> ...


Yes Patty, I'm 63 and just learned to knit recently. Here's one for you,,,,I always said knitting is for old women! Now that should start a real conversation...they will probably rip my head off for saying that. However, I learned differently. I now feel that I have cheated myself for having had on blinders for so many years. I learned to read charts because I wanted to knit the Ashton Shawlette designed by Stevieland a KP sister...so I did. Then in the same day I learned to cable and felt so silly for having avoided them. My family thinks I am the most talented genius ever! LOL


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!
> ...


Grandma, what's funny is the mangled spelling and grammar in the quote from courier. And I think she means Americans, too.


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!
> ...


Ladies, the world is changing...we must recognize that. Look back, far back into time and compare where it is now and where it is going. We must change with it.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

gypsie said:


> grandma susan said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


That depends on what we change. Computers for snail mail. Yeah, that's ok. Bad spelling and grammar for correct, no, not good. Loose morals and rude or disgusting behavior for polite company. No, that's not good either.


----------



## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> grandma susan said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


OK no offence taken...I have looked at charts on patterns and put them to one side because I think I'm old fashioned. I like to knit for my hobby. I'm suffering from the passage of time, so I don't want any hassles from a knitting pattern. I have enough bothers in my little life. Let them that like the charts, buy the charts, let them that don't like the charts, not buy them. EASY????


----------



## Dreamweaver (Feb 1, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Actually, that should be right and write....... Seems everyone wants to discuss grammar and spelling today instead of knitting......


----------



## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi Jynx...haven't seen you in a while????? My "grammar" died when I was 8


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

You have a very good point.


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

Berroco has many free patterns and 95% are written out. Another co. (Patternworks) will list it as either 'Charts' or 'Written'.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Evelyn Clark have some written and chart. Swallowtail for one. I did a couple in written and then attempted chart. I'll attempt chart again with steviland Ashton shawl.. It's gorgeiss..


----------



## Aunt Lily (May 20, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Love your little pome....wouldn't it be fun to rite foneticlly?


----------



## mimi3roses (Jan 28, 2011)

I find some charts difficult to follow, however, I also crochet and the charts for crochet do away with the question of UK or US terminology. I'm sure they also help with other language problems. But I do agree that a written pattern is good to fall back on. Reading charts is much like reading charts for cross stitch, or filet crochet.


----------



## sibergirl (May 4, 2011)

I think many more people today are visual learners, hence the popularity of charts.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Aunt Lily said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> Love your little pome....wouldn't it be fun to rite foneticlly?


It would be wonderful to rite and reed foneticly but unfortunately our minds have been trained NOT to...LOL


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

gypsie said:


> I wonder what one person gains by criticizing another? I think we are all guilty of it. Some people more than others. I catch myself doing it every day and don't feel good about it after I have done it. I think we all need to stop and think before we speak/react to another's flaws or mistakes. Please forgive me if I have made any grammatical errors in my post.


That one person has to remember that there was only ONE perfect man put on this earth and that was a long time ago.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


I'm with you 100%. I hate charts and generally avoid all patterns that don't have written instructions.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

Here's a hint about reading charts. When you put it on a magnetic board, stick post-its on it or just usea ruler to keep your place, put the marker ABOVE the line you're working on.

That way, what you're looking at on the chart looks like your knitting. You can look down on both the chart and your knitting and see that the stitch below the one you're about to do is a knot, YO, light color, etc, and use it to help you keep your place.

It will not only help to keep your place, help you spot mistakes early, help you keep from making mistakes, and give you a last minute opportunity to fix that knit that should have been a purl in the previous row.


----------



## Erma (Feb 18, 2011)

or write


----------



## gdhavens (Jul 21, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> gypsie said:
> 
> 
> > grandma susan said:
> ...


For every forward step in technology, two steps back for tolerance, common decency and courtesy. Is the world a better place for it? Not so much, I'm thinkin'. Just my opinion. That and $.50 won't even buy you a coffee!!!LOL!!!!


----------



## gdhavens (Jul 21, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Aunt Lily said:
> 
> 
> > :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> ...


Love the reply!!!


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

I often help newbies with knitting and crochet and they have trouble with written instructions and the abreviations. 
They ask me to help and they will sometimes make drawings along with the translated instructions to guide their way. This seems to help so maybe pictures are worth a thousand words. 
I always went to my mom for help when I was younger, she was an excellent knitter . Not everyone has a wonderful resource like that so I try to help 'em out. 

That's the purpose of KP is to help each other out here. It's informal so nevermind if your spelling is off here and there.
I think we have had a teachable moment here with the spelling errors. Everybody does it so let it go.


----------



## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

thank goodness there are lots of heritage patterns around with written directions


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

bevqual said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions?
> ...


And very nice patterns they are! I love your patterns!

I would like to learn to read charts better though. I agree, it's a universal language..

When I went to Turkey a few years back (1998), I would not have been able to get around without some signs using symbols rather than words (in Arabic!).. Arabic words are very pretty, but impossible to understand if you don't know the language! Here's an example: 
اننى فقدت يمكنك مساعدتي على ايجاد طريقي عائدا الى الفندق? 
means: I'm lost, can you help me find my way back to the hotel? 
or: 
حيث إن الحمام? 
means: Where's the bathroom?

As I said, symbols can be universal! Don't you love the language translators online? Of course, that does not mean I know how to pronounce those Arabic words either! 
Gloria


----------



## caat (Mar 6, 2012)

Charts make me have to use my brain. This is not good when you have chemo brain  Just google 'chemo brain'. It's a real thing!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I've gone thru. chemo also and have never heard of chemo brain. I don't feel any different now than I did before the chemo. ???


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

I've heard of "chemo brain". I have a friend who experienced it as she was treated for melanoma. It's real!


----------



## m_azingrace (Mar 14, 2012)

I have been knitting from written patterns for more than 50 years, and have avoided charts because they are foreign to me. Now I've decided to learn to read the charts instead of complaining about them. I'm up for the challenge!


----------



## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

m_azingrace said:


> I have been knitting from written patterns for more than 50 years, and have avoided charts because they are foreign to me. Now I've decided to learn to read the charts instead of complaining about them. I'm up for the challenge!


You go girl! I can't wait to hear how you do!


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm a knit designer and I prefer written patterns over charts. All of my patterns are written. It may take more paper to print out the pattern but I think a lot of new knitters find them easier to read than charts.


----------



## caat (Mar 6, 2012)

You're lucky Yorkie1, sincerely. It's been a real issue for me.


----------



## m_azingrace (Mar 14, 2012)

Once I decipher the charted pattern, I might record it on my tape recorder, then play it back to myself (over and over) as I knit. This works well with the written patterns too. 

My 90-yr-old neighbor works from charts all the time. She gets them enlarged too, so they are easier to see at a glance. As she finishes a row, she uses a highlight marker to keep track of her progress; just making a dot at the finish. Even if she uses the same chart again, she can still tell by the number of dots where she is in the pattern.


----------



## Lindersv (Nov 12, 2011)

I think you mean 'write'


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Are these charts for regular patterns as well as fair isle?if so I've never seen one


----------



## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

Pattyhayw said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Schipperke said:
> ...


Agree!


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

I put off understanding charts for years, thinking it was way too complicated. Then to my surprise, I tried a design with only a chart and it was really easy. Now I feel that way about a long set of written instructions! There's so much more room for error than on a chart. You could write out the instructions, using the key code as you follow each stitch of the chart. Before long you'd find it was easier just to read the chart.


----------



## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

m_azingrace said:


> I have been knitting from written patterns for more than 50 years, and have avoided charts because they are foreign to me. Now I've decided to learn to read the charts instead of complaining about them. I'm up for the challenge!


I think I will too!! Let's do it! :thumbup:


----------



## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

Not only are they using only charts, Vogue makes you go to the internet to get the charts to finish your projects. Needless to say I don't but Vogue anymore.


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

There much fewer mistakes with charts than long sentences of the written instructions. With a chart, you can easily see the design you are making, and easily learn the repeat of the pattern. Unless it is medically impossible, charts are well worth the time it takes to learn. All charts come with a symbol chart, so there isn't any guessing.


----------



## tenaj (Feb 22, 2011)

I am with you. I copy a pattern into a word document, make a backup and knit from it.

I delete the lines when I am done with them. I zip through my knitting now. Expecially complicated patterns.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

tenaj said:


> I am with you. I copy a pattern into a word document, make a backup and knit from it.
> 
> I delete the lines when I am done with them. I zip through my knitting now. Expecially complicated patterns.


That's brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## caat (Mar 6, 2012)

Q: Are charts ALWAYS read from right to left?


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

caat said:


> Q: Are charts ALWAYS read from right to left?


Yes, for the right side rows. Wrong side rows are read from left to right.


----------



## MarySandra (Mar 23, 2011)

Linda6885 said:



> There much fewer mistakes with charts than long sentences of the written instructions. With a chart, you can easily see the design you are making, and easily learn the repeat of the pattern. Unless it is medically impossible, charts are well worth the time it takes to learn. All charts come with a symbol chart, so there isn't any guessing.


One of the good things about charts is you don't have to know the language it's written in. there are lot's of lovely patterns coming out of Japan that are charts.


----------



## R-honda (Apr 8, 2012)

I perfer charts for lace patterns. The only complaint I have is that I wish the difference between K2tog and SSK was clearer. When one is a symbol that leans left and one leans right I have to keep checking back. Sometimes I go through and highlight one or change the symbol a little bit. That is after I make a copy and blow it up!


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

I have not made a very big effort to learn the charts--yet.. The question I would have about them( after I start to learn them) is with repeating those charts. I used one chart that was so explanatory that it made complete sense but I've looked at other charts that make me wonder how often I'm to repeat them.


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

a said:


> Pattyhayw said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


If I am grieving, I would not be inclined to get onto the computer and be rude to anyone so her personal situation should not be a factor in her rudeness. Someone did something similar to me and I havent seen her back on here since that happened a couple months ago. There's no excuse for doing that. She should simply have ignored the wrong spelling and went on her way


----------



## Joanna88 (Oct 12, 2011)

caat said:


> Q: Are charts ALWAYS read from right to left?


No...right to left,then left to right.................


----------



## jes1776 (Sep 10, 2011)

Dear Urith, Nothing personal here, but what the heck is your picture? It looks like a toothy dinosaur made after a night of deprived sleep or something!


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


hmmmm ... not sure what "wright" is ... would you be meaning "write?"

I am pretty much a grammar/spellling fanatic for the most part. But I also belong to many message boards and realize that not all people on the boards have had extensive grammar/spelling training nor do they all have English as a primary language. As long as we can and do understand what they are saying, and we can possibly help with their problem, is that not why we are all here?

IMHO I find it quite counterproductive to correct someone's grammar/spelling ... especially when the "correction" is also wrong.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

peachy51 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Thank you. I am not usually so far off base with my writing and/or spelling. I made a fumble.  I appreciate all the back up. Patty


----------



## knittingbee (Jan 18, 2011)

Hillary4, thank you. I have thought about blowing up a chart pattern but never the color idea. I will give it a try.


----------



## Imogen49 (Feb 15, 2012)

I HATE charts too. I've done everything - enlarged them on the photocopier, highlighted them with coloured pens - folded them up and kept them in my pockets, read them on the bust and I still hate them.
My solution now is to copy the charted instructions into written instructions myself. Seems laborious but it's really worth it.


----------



## LoriRuth (Apr 14, 2012)

Patty,
We all make mistakes with spelling or using the wrong spelling for a certain word..once I started reading the post I knew what you meant...no big deal. My niece is dyslexic and she can't help her spelling errors...I certainly wouldn't want her hurt because of a misspelled word.


----------



## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

It dosn't worry me as i've used written and charted patterns for well over forty years,all pattern were written,yes but fairislr patterns had a chart to and i just workrd it out as i knitted.


----------



## abc123retired (Nov 1, 2011)

This is quite the topic! Nineteen pages so far, but I'll add my two cents anyway. I resisted charts the first time I saw them, but now I make my own charts when I choose a stitch from Barbara Walker's Treasuries; so much easier to follow than all those words. I highlight or color code some of the stitches, like SSK or K2T and off I go. It took me several tries to get used to charts, but after reading charts for stranded work it became much easier.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

caat said:


> Q: Are charts ALWAYS read from right to left?


It depends on the method of your knitting. If you are knitting straight, also called flat, the first row is read right to left. The 2nd row is read left to right, if you are given a 2nd row. Some charts will have a note that says something like, "2nd and all even rows: Purl." In that case the chart will only have the odd numbered rows.

If you are knitting in a circle (one piece vest) or in the round (like a circular shawl) then you read all of the rounds right to left.


----------



## Lassie (Jan 26, 2011)

Or the difference between right, wright and write?


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Schipperke said:


> Blumoon said:
> 
> 
> > How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make any more comments!
> ...


Thank you for telling us--some times during stressful times we say and do things we normally would not. And also this is not like a live conversation were you can look at one's expression and know that they did not mean to hurt you--here it is just words and just words can hurt....sorry Courier these are stressful times for you and your family we can only give you support and courage to move forward.


----------



## caat (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for the reading chart tips!


----------



## Topsy (May 7, 2011)

I am in my late 60's and had difficulty learning charts. In some ways, they are more clear once you get the hang of them. HOWEVER, I just put my knitting down in frustration a few minutes ago. I'm knitting child's cardigan with a pattern resembling pea pods going up the center opening edges. So they are mirror images. And I got the two sides mixed up. Now it means frogging a lot of stitches because it is knit in one piece and there are about 80 stitches across the back. I'm so frustrated right now! GRRR!


----------



## LoriRuth (Apr 14, 2012)

I think we also have to take into consideration that there may be other factors with misspelled words, order of words written etc.

There are medical conditions, such as dyslexia, that one can't help misspelling a word or even with me I sometimes do things backwards...no medical condition with me I just do things backwards sometimes...always have, always will. BUT I understand from my Mom who was very good with spelling and grammar, she is in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's and she told me she says everything backwards now and she has to look up very simple words when playing scrabble when she was the champion scrabble player.

I would feel bad if someone was afraid to post or ask a question because they may be criticized or if someone saw a post where someone was criticized and decided not to ever post.

I am sorry if people are going through tough periods in their life.


----------



## mom2grif (Oct 19, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


or write


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

Schipperke said:


> Blumoon said:
> 
> 
> > How petty some people can be. I hate seeing misspelled words myself but I would never "call" someone out on it. I think is especially funny that the one who made a point of it made her own mistake. Funny she hasn't been back to make any more comments!
> ...


While I am truly sorry for the troubles this person has had. Please refer back to the first 4 posts on page one, to see where it all started, then tell us what you think.


----------



## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


RIGHT = CORRECT

WRIGHT is an occupational surname originating in England - eg Shipwright, Playwright ... etc

WRITE - to make marks on paper, or similar, for others to read

This is the end of today's English lesson :XD: :shock: :roll:

I apologise for the lateness of this post, it was only meant for the person who seemed to delight in correcting the use age of another's word, when hers was also incorrect. I am another who cringes at spelling errors, but try my hardest not to correct on the posts - I might do it in my head, though  

I haven't, as yet, had the courage to try a charted pattern, but have many marked that I want to try


----------



## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

lostarts said:


> caat said:
> 
> 
> > Q: Are charts ALWAYS read from right to left?
> ...


You read my mind....I just found a scarf that I want to knit and all it said was end with ws. I didn't know if row 1 of the chart was the right or wrong side...now I do. Thanks


----------



## Tizzanne (Apr 15, 2012)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


I totally agree with you. I much prefer written patterns as I have trouble remembering what the symbols stand for. It is most frustrating to have to keep looking up the key in the middle of a row when with a written pattern, all I need is a ruler to underline the row and I can quickly scan the instructions as I go.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

jorens53 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


I've heard of shipwright, wheelwright, etc. But Playwright? shouldn't that be Playwrite?  
now you guys have me doing it, sheesh! :lol: :lol: 
Patty


----------



## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> jorens53 said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


Idk, that was on Wikipedia - I had to look it up to be sure I got it at least halfway correct - I was just try to show the lady who was criticising that we couldn't be correct all the time, we will make errors somewhere without realising :XD: :XD: :XD:

I really think that we are not at Uni here, we are all knitters, so long as the pattern we are using is correct :thumbup:


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

jorens53 said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > jorens53 said:
> ...


I LOVE IT! Thank you for that. 
I never wanted to be perfect, I think it would be boring. No worries on my part.
Patty


----------



## daralene (Feb 27, 2012)

caat said:


> Charts make me have to use my brain. This is not good when you have chemo brain  Just google 'chemo brain'. It's a real thing!


Hi Caat, I am very familiar with chemo brain. When volunteering for Radiation and Chemo a doctor came in and spoke to the Head and Neck cancer support group. He himself had cancer and experienced this himself so he wrote a book about it and spoke about how when he was studying in Med. School, it really affected him. I'm glad not everyone has this. Each cancer is different and chemo brain is very real. Bravo to you for knitting, but so sorry you are dealing with this. I wish I knew the doctor's name but his book is probably research and for other doctors. At least there are medical people out there who have experienced this and know about it. Meanwhile, here's to knitting, and hope all these charts won't drive you crazy. Knitting can be so therapeutic.


----------



## mom2grif (Oct 19, 2011)

Back to the charts issue... LOL 

I'm learning two like charts. I think it might depend on witch brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, knot a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I sea the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps ewe keep track of you're row helps to.

(translated with correct spelling - haha)...I'm learning to like charts. I think it might depend on which brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, not a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I see the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps you keep track of your row helps too.


----------



## daralene (Feb 27, 2012)

mom2grif said:


> Back to the charts issue... LOL
> 
> I'm learning two like charts. I think it might depend on witch brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, knot a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I sea the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps ewe keep track of you're row helps to.
> 
> (translated with correct spelling - haha)...I'm learning to like charts. I think it might depend on which brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, not a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I see the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps you keep track of your row helps too.


LOL :-D


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

mom2grif said:


> Back to the charts issue... LOL
> 
> I'm learning two like charts. I think it might depend on witch brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, knot a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I sea the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps ewe keep track of you're row helps to.
> 
> (translated with correct spelling - haha)...I'm learning to like charts. I think it might depend on which brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, not a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I see the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps you keep track of your row helps too.


Too cute! Love it.


----------



## MMyummy (Feb 1, 2012)

Patty, most places have lots of writtren patterns. Go to www.lionbrand.com and olok for "free patterns". They have thousands.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

mom2grif said:



> Back to the charts issue... LOL
> 
> I'm learning two like charts. I think it might depend on witch brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, knot a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I sea the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps ewe keep track of you're row helps to.
> 
> (translated with correct spelling - haha)...I'm learning to like charts. I think it might depend on which brain sided you are. I'm more of a math person, not a language arts person, and also a visual learner. I see the chart and can picture what the finished item will look like. Having a magnetic holder that helps you keep track of your row helps too.


HAHAHA ... you go girl! :thumbup:


----------



## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> jorens53 said:
> 
> 
> > Patty Sutter said:
> ...


I am glad I have made someone happy, I hate upsetting people xoxo
Unfortunately I am a perfectionist, but trying really hard not to be  :shock:


----------



## Carlyta (Mar 23, 2011)

Charts don't bother me at all. Most of the patterns I have used had the written directions as well as the charts. I have noticed that the younger knitters like to use charts. Carlyta


----------



## norita willadsen (Jan 19, 2011)

I get upset when I see someone writing a comment re: someones spelling. We all do not have the same computer skills when it comes to typing and spelling. Sometimes are brains are thinking faster than our fingers can type and one omits words, other times we are thinking the correct word but type the wrong word which sounds the same. As I get older, I find that at times I can't even think of the spelling of certain word. Very frustrating, but my brain doesn't funtion at the same level that it did a few years back. Some time ago, someone commented on my spelling. It iritated me. So since then I proff read everything I write and right now I am wondering if I have spelled "proff" correctly but I am not going to take time to look it up. So the message I am trying to get across is, lets not be so critical of other persons spelling. Thanks for listening, rather reading. Norita


----------



## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


And especially if they knew the difference between right, wright, and WRITE!


----------



## cathie white (May 29, 2011)

As many of these posts refer to grammatical/spelling errors, here's another that bothers me---plurals formed with an apostrophe--as in"kid's". Clearly, what was intended was a plural ---"kids". "Kid's" is a possessive---kid's books, kid's shoes, etc. There, THAT's off my chest!


Cheryl Jaeger said:


> If years Ago children only finished the 8th grade and then had to work to help out at home, then I'd guess these kid's learned more by the 8th grade of teaching then they do today who "Graduate" .
> The fact that kid's had to deal with reality back then surely did not hurt them. They are our strength and backbone of today. For the most part anyway. jmo


----------



## threadgal (Jun 26, 2011)

I know that ther have been times I have paced patterns because of the charts and no writen instructions. You ladies are giving the courage to try a chart. :thumbup: :?:


----------



## threadgal (Jun 26, 2011)

You ladies are talking about spelling. I work with high school students and they have spelling that is just like texting,that they doe all day, that includes classes.


----------



## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

norita willadsen said:


> I get upset when I see someone writing a comment re: someones spelling. We all do not have the same computer skills when it comes to typing and spelling. Sometimes are brains are thinking faster than our fingers can type and one omits words, other times we are thinking the correct word but type the wrong word which sounds the same. As I get older, I find that at times I can't even think of the spelling of certain word. Very frustrating, but my brain doesn't funtion at the same level that it did a few years back. Some time ago, someone commented on my spelling. It iritated me. So since then I proff read everything I write and right now I am wondering if I have spelled "proff" correctly but I am not going to take time to look it up. So the message I am trying to get across is, lets not be so critical of other persons spelling. Thanks for listening, rather reading. Norita


Just tell them to get a life - I often misspell, or put the wrong word entirely now - if I was still employed, that could be a life & death situation - but I am retired & now I can spell how I want :XD: :XD:


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

threadgal said:


> You ladies are talking about spelling. I work with high school students and they have spelling that is just like texting,that they doe all day, that includes classes.


LOL...If you're on Facebook, when you're reading posts by people that are like..."Whr r u going 2nite?"...do you find yourself sounding the words out loud slowly???...This kind of posting drives me absolutely INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!...I know it saves TINY amounts of time and space to type like this but I just cannot stand it!!!!....LOL....and actually, it takes LONGER to type like that because you have to concentrate on where the letters and numbers are!!!...LOL


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

Phoenix said:


> threadgal said:
> 
> 
> > You ladies are talking about spelling. I work with high school students and they have spelling that is just like texting,that they doe all day, that includes classes.
> ...


I agree ... textwriting drives me insane too!


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

I guess if Knitting Paradise wanted us to spell correctly we would have spell check on this site. Since there isn't lets enjoy everyone's company and not be too petty.

We need our members to participate in writing their views no matter who you are.


----------



## Snooper's Ma (Jun 5, 2011)

I would be much more apt to try charts if they printed them in more readable type. My eyes are not 21 anymore and the light xs or whatever they use run together. If they used some way to make the boxes more readable, I would be happy to try them. I might say that, when my eyes were younger, I did many needlepoint charts so I am not a novice in charts. READABLE charts.


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

Snooper's Ma said:


> I would be much more apt to try charts if they printed them in more readable type. My eyes are not 21 anymore and the light xs or whatever they use run together. If they used some way to make the boxes more readable, I would be happy to try them. I might say that, when my eyes were younger, I did many needlepoint charts so I am not a novice in charts. READABLE charts.


I was thinking, why not copy the chart and highlight the row with the x's in it. That might make it easier to see.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

I've always admired people who could do the counted cross stitch patterns. I just never had the patience for them but nowadays I might be able to sit still long enough to work on one awhile. LOL...


----------



## scotchbroad (Mar 26, 2012)

I am dying to knit socks, so I bought this book about knitting socks from the book, well when I found a pair that I liked I thought they looked easy enough, but when I read the directions the pattern was all done following the graph. I used to knit by graph many years ago, but now it is so differant, maybe it is me having an age problem LoL.
Joyce.


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

I enlarge the chart and I color some the boxes in with a coordinate color to the knitting symbol.


----------



## mamahen (May 26, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Aunt Lily said:
> 
> 
> > :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> ...


If any of you ever took shorthand back in the stone age, that really did screw up our spelling for a long time. While taking dictation, we had to think phonetically (sp ?) and transpose into correct spelling. In those days, we HAD to spell correctly or we had a lot of nice red circles throughout the paper.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mamahen said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Aunt Lily said:
> ...


I'm SO glad I never had to learn shorthand!!!!....LOL


----------



## caat (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Daralene....it sure has been therapeutic for me!


----------



## threadgal (Jun 26, 2011)

I agree with you whole heartedly. Knowing this it makes me feel better about typing my opion on different things.


----------



## Mary60 (Jan 2, 2012)

Your spelling is wrong also you don't wright patterns you write them.I don't buy patterns with charts because I don't like them and my brain works just fine and i'm sure the lady who asked the question was merely wondering why there are so many patterns that are charts only.There was no reason to be so sarcastic about it :-(


----------



## Wood'n'Wool (Apr 5, 2012)

Schipperke said:


> In the chat section Courier has been telling us about her DIL who had a baby yesterday, 4 weeks early. The baby is OK but she also gave birth to a dead twin. Her DIL has been very ill as well, so whilst I feel that she does tend to be a bit critical, I feel that things have been very difficult for her over the last few weeks or so. I know that not everyone reads every item on the KP forum, but I have read Courier's story and I just feel for her at this moment. I'm not critising anyone at all, just putting what I've read.
> I hope you don't mind my 'piggy backing' onto your comment, it was just the last one that I read that was saying something about Courier. I am NOT getting at you at all, everyone is fully entitled to their own opinion, but having read alot of comments on this forum, where someone is going through something that's difficult, everyone rallies round with thoughts and prayers, (if they have read about the sad circumstances).


courier770 doesn't need an excuse to be rude, offensive and just plain nasty!


----------



## Hannelore (Oct 26, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > threadgal said:
> ...


Me too. I think it is just laziness, but then that is me. I always tried very hard at spelling and English at school and now I am unable to stop myself from seeing the mistakes I make as well as others. :XD:


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> threadgal said:
> 
> 
> > You ladies are talking about spelling. I work with high school students and they have spelling that is just like texting,that they doe all day, that includes classes.
> ...


I think it all started with text messaging while driving--it's hard to type words out in full, drive with one hand and forget to break for a red light all at the same time.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Hannelore said:


> peachy51 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenix said:
> ...


It started out as a kind of laziness and now it's the "normal" way to type in text, tweet, Facebook posts...it's insane. LOL


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Ask4j said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > threadgal said:
> ...


I got after my daughter about texting and driving....she and her husband don't have "normal" conversations or fights...they may start out talking or fighting but then one of them goes into another room or leaves the house and they text fight!!!!...The darnedest thing I ever saw....LOL...but I'm not surprised...I've always been too tongue twisted to talk face to face but I can type out a conversation like a house on fire!!!!....LOL


----------



## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Actually "seriously" is an adverb. If one uses the -ly ending it would be written "I might take this poster seriously..." With proper grammar of the "teen years" (1800-1900's) they tried not to use adverbs. "Serious" is more correct, but today's world uses adverbs as if they were going out of style. Professional writers will tell you that they do a global search once their manuscript is finished for all adverbs with -ly endings before they submit it anywhere for publication. When they find them they either delete the word and/or rewrite the sentence so it doesn't have the -ly ending. Not picking on anyone, just giving information - probably more than you want to know. I'm sure there will be some who disagree.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

KnitPicker said:


> Joy Marshall said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


No, you're absolutely right...


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

mamahen said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Aunt Lily said:
> ...


I was just thinking this earlier today. With all the years of shorthand classes and years of taking shorthand in the office before dictation equipment became the norm, it's a wonder I can spell anything!


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

MamaBonz 55 said:


> Joy Marshall said:
> 
> 
> > I am with you on this. I absolutely hate charts and can't be bothered with them. I look through knitting magazines in stores and if they lean heavily toward charts I don't buy them. If a pattern looks interesting but is only in chart form, I don't buy the book.
> ...


Charts are also less likely to contain mistakes than written instructions. I much prefer them for colour-work because I can see what my knitting is supposed to look like, working from patterns that only have written instructions are like doing a mystery jigsaw puzzle!

Dave


----------



## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> MamaBonz 55 said:
> 
> 
> > Joy Marshall said:
> ...


Each method available to us today, and there are myriad, has a specific purpose. And those of you who are more creatively minded can find even more than one purpose. The point being that everything works for someone. I find that charts are confusing to me, however, the day will come when I'll need to use them. For now, I'll stick to written patterns because that's what I'm used to. When I'm ready for a challenge, I'll try the charts, each method has its purpose and fulfills it successfully.


----------



## mom2grif (Oct 19, 2011)

IDK, but LOL, and OMG, I'm ROTFLOL.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mom2grif said:


> IDK, but LOL, and OMG, I'm ROTFLOL.


Now I'M guilty of using all of the above!!!...LOL


----------



## macnurse (May 13, 2012)

It doesn't matter to me if it is just a chart because I have to write everything down and then mark it off with a pen once I have completed the stitch(es) because of my spacial dyslexia. It takes me a lot longer but I have a lot fewer mistakes causing me to unknit...which actually I'm getting rather accomplished at.


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

I am so sorry caat. I know chemo and raidiation both have been so hard on most every one that has to go thru it. 
I feel so lucky. I took chemo for 6 mo. and then went thru raidiation. I was never sick any from either of it. The only difference I ever noticed was my cheeks got flushed on the 3rd. after the chemo. It didn't make me exhusted like it does most.
I did loose all my hair and it came back in curly. I was so happy with it, but each time I got my hair trimmed it took away some of my curls till it is back to normal.
My Oncoligist called me his poster child beings I didn't get sick from the chemo. 
I really feel for you and wish you the best. I'm sending all my prayers your way. Hope you get better soon.


----------



## Forgetfull (Jan 29, 2011)

Now I understand why my DIL thinks Americans are silly, 
She says, America is a nice place to visit, but not to live, because we don't know how to get along! I think someone has made us out to look like fools ,to our foreign friends on this thread!


----------



## Elaine Ohs (Jan 27, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


Don't be so quick to cast the first stone. In the comment you made you should have used "write" not "wright" English is a crazy language. I don't know how people that have another first language ever learn it.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

Forgetfull said:


> Now I understand why my DIL thinks Americans are silly,
> She says, America is a nice place to visit, but not to live, because we don't know how to get along! I think someone has made us out to look like fools ,to our foreign friends on this thread!


Wow! I'm curious as to where your DIL lives that everyone gets along all the time?

Tell her that is precisely what makes America great ... the vast amount of diversity in people and opinions! And the freedom to express them :mrgreen:


----------



## Elveta (Feb 17, 2012)

How about write?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

gypsie said:


> I was a resister also. Thanks to KP's Stevieland, I have learned to read charts. And I must say I like it better, lol. Once you learn, you will not want to go back to all that written mumbo jumbo! Just give it a try before you judge, a good try, not a half hearted one!


That's good advice for a lot of things!


----------



## MamaBonz 55 (Sep 24, 2011)

carrottop71 said:


> Not only are they using only charts, Vogue makes you go to the internet to get the charts to finish your projects. Needless to say I don't but Vogue anymore.


I can see your point and felt the same way at first. Then I had a big '"ah hah!" moment and realized what a good thing it is to have the charts online so I can just download them and enlarge and print. So much better than trying to do that from a scan of the magazine page.


----------



## jojoscat (Feb 28, 2012)

Patty Sutter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Who cares how you spell it , as long as we understand what you mean,,,,,,,i can read both charts and written patterns but i reallly do like written patterns best...


----------



## jojoscat (Feb 28, 2012)

whataknitwit said:


> Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> It clearly marx for my revew Miss Takes I cannot c.
> I've run this letter thru it as u can planely cee,
> It's letter perfekt in it's wai,
> My pea see tolled me so!


HA HA HA


----------



## violetta40 (Jan 20, 2011)

baglady1104 said:


> Cents grammar and spelling are quiet important too me, I'd jump write in hear butt I'm afraid I'd make a misteak, to.


Ha ha, he he, mee tooo.


----------



## violetta40 (Jan 20, 2011)

Where are the spelling police when you need them? Humm.


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> gypsie said:
> 
> 
> > I was a resister also. Thanks to KP's Stevieland, I have learned to read charts. And I must say I like it better, lol. Once you learn, you will not want to go back to all that written mumbo jumbo! Just give it a try before you judge, a good try, not a half hearted one!
> ...


It took me a while to get used to charted cables, I generally need to enlarge them because the symbols can look similar. However, for colour-work, I think charts are a vast improvement; but I also do cross stitch, so that could be a factor.

Dave


----------



## sln (Jan 28, 2011)

If you are just looking for lace patterns that can be put into your pattern, try Knittingfool.com. The have written instructions for hundreds of lace patterns. I just used one for a cardigan I am making. I like written, but once you get used to a chart it flows well also.


----------



## YasminaB (Dec 14, 2011)

I wouldn't buy a pattern with a chart as well. I prefer to read the instructions even though they may be challenging sometime.I agree with the Lady who wrote that some may not want to think by readin instructions. I find it easier YasminaB


----------



## ingrambead (May 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


I do like patterns with both written instructions and charts. I have come to prefer charts and I will convert the written form to charts for my own benefit. Having both forms can also provide a double check, much like spell check.


----------



## TinaOR (May 22, 2011)

I like written patterns too. Charts just scare me!


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

TinaOR said:


> I like written patterns too. Charts just scare me!


They take a little getting used to, try finding a small pattern which has parallel instructions, aim to work from the chart, but you will have the written instructions to fall check against. A full picture sweater is a bit daunting, a small motif is a good place to start.

This method worked for me and now I much prefer charts.

Dave


----------



## B.THETFORD (Mar 7, 2012)

I used to use charts many years ago for fair isle patterns but haven't used one since. The idea of blowing up the chart to a readable size and marking off with coloured pens/crayons is good bit I fear the size I would need to follow the chart these days would be rather unwieldly. I have had to abandon cross stitch because I couldn't read the chart. I think I will have to stick to plain knitting although I would like to try my luck with a shawl with a lacy edging.


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> Schipperke said:
> 
> 
> > Blumoon said:
> ...


I know what you mean Patty, I was just trying to calm it a bit I think because of what I had read on another topic. I have read posts in the past written by Courier, (one in particular regarding copyright laws and how she would take anyone to court etc). I guess at heart I'm a bit soft but I was a nurse and had to be compassionate with people even if they were trying to knock my head off!!
Some people are just downright nasty and critical and don't know when to stop. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances, sometimes not. I guess if someone is unpleasant for what ever reason, then my philosophy is to walk away from the situation and ignore the comments. Rising to them just gives that person more ammunition. This isn't a lecture to any one else at all, it's just how I am, so please everyone, don't think I'm telling you what to do or not to do.


----------



## Aud36 (Aug 20, 2011)

TinaOR said:


> I like written patterns too. Charts just scare me!


I'm with you I've tried and failed miserably.

Mind you KP is getting to be a scary place lately. I was the butt of some nastiness a few months ago. I stayed away for a while and HEY PRESTO when I came back the same person is still at it


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

jojoscat said:


> whataknitwit said:
> 
> 
> > Eye have a spelling cheker it kame with mi pee sea,
> ...


Love it!! Thanks for the cheery moment!


----------



## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

Elaine Ohs said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


I agree. I've always said if I had been born in another country, I NEVER could have learned English. In view of that, I've created the habit of saying "American language." For it is our language and not the English language, although part of it came from the English people.

What makes it even worse, is that the "American Language" isn't a language at all, but a conglomeration of every language in the world, which makes each word have its own set of rules. How confusing, but shows what America is all about - people from all over the world.


----------



## sandra demarais (May 6, 2012)

The word you meant to use is write not wright. Check your English. I teach it, and I prefer charts. It gives me the freedom to change size of pattern by changing size of my needles or ply and weight of my yarn. Some dogs just can't learn new tricks...or see the creative advantage to charts. Keep writing.


----------



## cindybar (Mar 8, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


and then there's write.


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

Can we get over the criticism of spelling? Let's talk knitting.


----------



## mamahen (May 26, 2011)

MrsC said:


> Can we get over the criticism of spelling? Let's talk knitting.


I agree.

This began yesterday morning and is still going on. Enough, already.


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

Schipperke said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > Schipperke said:
> ...


A person who is being taken to task for a spelling error could be having troubles, too. We don't know what others are going through.


----------



## StellasKnits (Apr 10, 2011)

I write out all my patterns that I offer for sale on Craftsy and Etsy. Just my preferred method.


----------



## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

The original post on charts vs written directions was correct being in Knitting category. Since it has evolved to another subject (writing/grammar, etc.) it's been suggested that it be switched to Chit Chat (according to KP's guidelines). 

I love to learn from others, but our conversations, negative or positive need to be in the right categories so those of us who want to participate can do so without offense, meant or not meant. If there are others who want to continue the "write, right" conversation, let's all move it to Chit Chat where we can talk more freely and not take up the Knitting space from others. For me, I don't take offense at anything in the Chit Chat section. It's just everyone's opinion and I find that refreshing, plus I can learn from it, whether I agree or not. See you on Chit Chat.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MrsC said:


> Can we get over the criticism of spelling? Let's talk knitting.


I agree. Let's stop "nit-picking" and get back to "knit-picking!"


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

I copy the pattern several times and each time I finish a row or pattern I softly write through it. It keeps my place and I can use the pattern book again because I have not colored through it. I only use the copies for me so I don't think I am breaking any copyright laws. And it just seems to work for me.


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

you are so correct.


----------



## Muddyann (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree on the whole chart thing. I look through a book and if it has charts, I put it back, unless the chart is just for the pictures like hearts on the bottom. But the whole this dot means this and this similar but different dot means something else, my eyes just can't tell them apart at this point.


----------



## Carlyta (Mar 23, 2011)

I do cross stitch too. That could be the reason that charts don't bother me. I can read charts for knitting better than I can for crochet charts. Even with a chart I will write the directions out anyway--helps me keep track of what I'm doing. Carlyta


----------



## EweWho (Feb 9, 2011)

The only knitting I've done from a chart is the Ashton Shawl from Dee. I was amazed at how quickly I picked it up. Once I got started it was very natural to me. Did I make mistakes? Yes! But I know I would have done the same thing with written directions. Sometimes my eyes just go to the wrong thing. LOL

After going through pages and pages of criticism, I have to ask.. Am I the only one who noticed that courier770 was commenting about her OWN post and misspelling, not anyone else's?



courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!





courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


----------



## Carlyta (Mar 23, 2011)

Hi, Patty--if you can, try this book "Charts Made Simple" by JC Briar. This book is designed to help with reading charts. Don't give up though. Reading a chart is not so bad once you get used to it. Carlyta


----------



## MarySandra (Mar 23, 2011)

Carlyta said:


> Hi, Patty--if you can, try this book "Charts Made Simple" by JC Briar. This book is designed to help with reading charts. Don't give up though. Reading a chart is not so bad once you get used to it. Carlyta


This is a wonderful book.


----------



## mernie (Mar 20, 2011)

If there is no chart with a pattern, I make one! I really find it easier to use.


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

mernie said:


> If there is no chart with a pattern, I make one! I really find it easier to use.


I find myself doing that more often. We all work different ways, it doesn't really matter whether one uses written instructions or a chart, as long as one is proud of the end result.

Dave


----------



## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

I am a hand and machine knitting pattern writer. I understand why the magazines use the charts (space issues) but do feel that they should offer the written instructions on line. This would satisfy both the chart readers and the knitters who like the written instructions, right! As far as the 'write' and 'right' issues, one has to do with the act of writing and the other refers to right and wrong. I thought that the original post was a pun on pattern writing. Not offended at all.


----------



## knitcrochetlover (Feb 1, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


I found myself in the same position with a chart. What I did was write the pattern according to the chart and as I got to a spot that wasn't written correctly I would fix it and I then had both chart and written instructions. Writing instructions from a chart is time consuming but for me was worth it.


----------



## morgansam51 (Apr 4, 2012)

I find that to be really depressing! I also hate the charts and wish all directions were in written form. As far as the English language goes, I work at a weekly newspaper and you would not believe the way some of the items come in to our office. It's scary!


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

I just had to to take a moment to tell you how beautiful the shall you have on your site is. Bravo for such a nice piece of work!


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

EweWho said:


> The only knitting I've done from a chart is the Ashton Shawl from Dee. I was amazed at how quickly I picked it up. Once I got started it was very natural to me. Did I make mistakes? Yes! But I know I would have done the same thing with written directions. Sometimes my eyes just go to the wrong thing. LOL
> 
> After going through pages and pages of criticism, I have to ask.. Am I the only one who noticed that courier770 was commenting about her OWN post and misspelling, not anyone else's?
> 
> ...


If you look at the very top (subject line) you will see the typo was made by the person asking the question to which courier770 answered.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions? I like learning new techniques, but charts without directions is about the same as reading klingon.
> Oh well I'll just have to get more OLD patterns. Thanks for being my sounding board.
> Patty


PattySutter, my sentiments exactly. I asked Vogue that question and they never answered. It is ridiculous.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> EweWho said:
> 
> 
> > The only knitting I've done from a chart is the Ashton Shawl from Dee. I was amazed at how quickly I picked it up. Once I got started it was very natural to me. Did I make mistakes? Yes! But I know I would have done the same thing with written directions. Sometimes my eyes just go to the wrong thing. LOL
> ...


courier770 how about knowing the difference between "right" "wright" and "write" everybody makes typo errors. I have seen many incorrectly spelled words on this forum and there is no need to be insulting.


----------



## iceangel (Jul 5, 2011)

I agree with you to some extent. I don't mind charts for fair isle and intarsia patterns - I find it easier to see all of the colour changes etc. but I don't like charts for cable patterns. It might be me and I might just have a mental block when it comes to cable charts but I just can't seem to be able to work them out. I have recently seen a number of lovely cabled jumpers but they have all used charts so I have had to look for different patterns


----------



## Oma42 (May 10, 2012)

I believe it!!


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


No you did not Patty. I figure if someone is going to correct you then they should know to spell themselves and use the correct word in the correct context.

I do not like charts myself. Funny enough, I am good at reading crocheted charts, but for some reason, I just get stuck on the knitted charts. Don't worry, you are not alone in prefering written instructions to the designs. Maybe if enough of us complain, the designers would realize that they have customers who are not all the same. I guess we are all a little hesitant when it loks like we have to come out of our comfort zone. There is a very nice KPer on this forum who is very willing to walk the KPers through the lace charts that she designs - and she has designed some of the most beautiful ones. As soon as I have completed my task at hand, I have promised her that I will try one of her shawls and she has promised to walk me through it as she has many others on this forum. I know her name is Dee Kennedy, but I cannot remember what her KP name is. If I find it I'll let you know and maybe you can PM her and I am sure she will help you out. Take good care and have a blessed day.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I wasn't being insulting I was being sarcastic. There is a difference. It doesn't matter if one prefers a written pattern over a chart..both exist for a reason. Charting a pattern is not the least bit easier for the designer, in fact it is much more time consuming.

Generally charted patterns are more accurate and less likely to contain errors, not caught by the proofreader.

Learning to work from both written and charted patterns is a good idea. If you are going to "master" any craft, you need to be flexible.

Many here only speak English as a second language and use a translation site to help them read posts. Typo's make this harder for them. Maybe I am a bit more understanding about this since I hail from immigrants who didn't arrive here speaking perfect English. A mistyped letter can make a great bit of difference. 

One can always go back and edit a post to correct spelling.

Some patterns contain European measurements or abbreviations, others utilize only US terminology and measurements. Learning to "convert" to another system enables you to work with patterns, regardless of source. 

Symbols used in charted patterns are universal. You don't need to translate a charted pattern from Spanish or French, you only need to read the chart. This is why many people prefer them.

Designers "write" patterns. The term is CopyRIGHT. Since there are people on this forum from many countries, taking the time to properly spell words is fairly important.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I wasn't being insulting I was being sarcastic. There is a difference. It doesn't matter if one prefers a written pattern over a chart..both exist for a reason. Charting a pattern is not the least bit easier for the designer, in fact it is much more time consuming.
> 
> Generally charted patterns are more accurate and less likely to contain errors, not caught by the proofreader.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter whether you were being "insulting" or "sarcastic", courier770, there was no need for it. Just answer the question posed, and don't be "insulting" or "sarcastic". I believe that this is what this forum is about - being kind and patient and tolerant. I agree that taking time to spell correctly is important, but this is a public forum and you and I are not the only ones reading the posts. Please, think before you reply.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Write, wright and right all have different meanings! Take the time to watch your spelling, not everyone here is fluent in English and how badly it is butchered. I speak 3 different languages and manage to keep my spellings correct.


----------



## aknitter (Jan 25, 2011)

LOL and then there is your and you're. Your knitting and what you're (you are) knitting are two (too (also), to (the knitting shop)). Hahaha. My mother was an English grammar stickler. 

On another note, I just learned how to read lace charts and I have mixed emotions about it. It takes up less room to view a chart and with my magnet board I am able to keep track very easily but I am always wondering if I have done the yo or do I still need to do it and then I get to TINK because I found that I didn't yo when I should have. But if I take my time, look at each stitch on the chart it works out well for me. If there were universal symbols I think it would make it easier in the long run. If everyone used the same symbol for each stitch, yo etc, I would be knitting more and tinking less. 

Anita


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Anita, charted patterns use the same symbols. It doesn't matter if the pattern is in Russian, Italian or any other language, the symbols are the same. This is the reason why many prefer them. My relatives in Italy can share patterns with me and I with them, IF they are charted.

We cannot always share written patterns, while I read, write and speak Italian they don't read English very well. I design patterns and am able to send my Italian cousins my patterns since I put them in chart format. If I only put them in written format I'd have to redo them in Italian, with chart format I don't have to do that.

I realize that most families aren't as "global" as mine but for some of us it is an issue. My cousin Gina really loves it when I'm able to send her charted patterns that don't require her having to translate them.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Write, wright and right all have different meanings! Take the time to watch your spelling, not everyone here is fluent in English and how badly it is butchered. I speak 3 different languages and manage to keep my spellings correct.


courier770 get off of your high horse. If you don't want to be stung don't mess around the hornet's nest. I am not the one with the incorrect spelling. You are the one who spelt the word "write" incorrectly as "wright" instead of "write" while being sarcastic about someone else's incorrect spelling. If you are so high and mighty with the amount of languages you speak, then get them right. 
Consider other people's feelings and stop being so discriminatory about your 40 dozen languages you speak and correct spelling. This is not your classroom. Remember that there are people on this forum whose mother tongue is not English. They are from all over the world. Be compassionate. Whoever threw God off of His throne and put you in His place. Enough! Don't bother to reply to this.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

ENOUGH ALREADY! We are all here about knitting and crocheting, not bickering and back biting. I made a mistake if someone wants to come unglued because I'm only human. So be it. 27 pages!?!
Come on.
Thank you all for your advice both pro and con. I guess I'll figure out what I want to do next. But Let's just end this Thread.
Patty


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mamahen said:


> MrsC said:
> 
> 
> > Can we get over the criticism of spelling? Let's talk knitting.
> ...


It's because people don't get past reading that particular comment before they make their own comment on it. I do the same thing sometimes but if I see that there are more than a couple of pages of comments on a subject I'll read forward to see if someone else has already made my point...LOL


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I never said I spoke 40 languages, I'm not on a high horse either. I just happen to come from a family where English is not always the first language spoken.

This is the reason that many prefer a charted pattern...the symbols are universal and the native language of the knitter need not be the same as that of the designer.

Not everyone on this forum speaks English as their first language. I'm so sorry that you do not understand that. My family didn't arrive on the Mayflower, in fact most families didn't. We bring with us, to this country, our languages, our customs, our recipes and so much more but please don't expect everyone to be fluent in English.

Those of us who have kept the languages of our families alive, should not be accused of being on a "high horse". We speak these languages to keep up communications with our families, many of whom still live in far flung places.


----------



## love to knit (Jan 13, 2012)

I use charts when I Crocheted it seem to be much easier. Did my shawl with a chart loved it.


----------



## promisegirlfarm (Mar 17, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!


This loosely resembles a pet peeve of mine and that is the way our language has been changed recently by the media and by the rest of us. I used to be a stickler about spelling and sentence form and now I find that I am seeing and texting words spelled incorrectly. I have to ask my teenage grandchildren how to decipher things like OMG and LOL. What do you think?


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

OK what really bothers me is that those who do not use English as their first language, have to tolerate our typo's and our misuses of words. Right, wright and write...their, there and they're. Yes they are small things but when you are trying to translate and understand/learn a new language they can be so frustrating. My family speaks English, Italian and various butchered versions of Russian.

I hail from a grandmother who earned her degree at the University of Moscow at Kiev in languages..she's probably rolling over in her grave. She was fluent in languages I will never conquer.

We do have to remember that not everyone who uses this forum is fluent in English, or our butchery of it. Stave, slave and snave are pretty close in spelling..though all have very different meanings.


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> MrsC said:
> 
> 
> > Can we get over the criticism of spelling? Let's talk knitting.
> ...


I agree with this it's time to "knit-picking". Do whatever is easier for you. My mother-n-law who was teacher often said it is more important to listen than to have your own way.


----------



## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

I always knitted from written instructions, but thanks to Dee, I think the charts are the greatest thing since sliced bread!


----------



## Wood'n'Wool (Apr 5, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I wasn't being insulting I was being sarcastic.


When sarcasm is directed *at* someone it *is* insulting.
I hail from immigrants who couldn't speak a word of English when they arrived here.
I speak 5 different languages and can spell perfectly in all of them.
I'm a world famous designer. I'm sure you have heard of me.
My grandmother earned 3 degrees from 3 different, highly prestigious, universities and is fluent in dozens of languages.
After all these examples I suppose you still don't get it.


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

Patty Sutter said:


> ENOUGH ALREADY! We are all here about knitting and crocheting, not bickering and back biting. I made a mistake if someone wants to come unglued because I'm only human. So be it. 27 pages!?!
> Come on.
> Thank you all for your advice both pro and con. I guess I'll figure out what I want to do next. But Let's just end this Thread.
> Patty


Patty,
You could ask the adm to close it for you. I think you have your answer and it's done. Your post seems to have been hi-jacked in a bad direction and is out of control. Thanks.


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

Classic Elite, Berroco, etc. still have written patterns. One co. I really like is PatternWorks. They say 'charts or written' on all patterns.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

My grandmother arrived here and English wasn't her first language it was her third..thank you very much. You can either learn to read, write and spell or you can complain! Your choice!


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Write, wright and right all have different meanings! Take the time to watch your spelling, not everyone here is fluent in English and how badly it is butchered. I speak 3 different languages and manage to keep my spellings correct.


You keep your spellings correct?? You might want to review your posts and edit accordingly.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

My posts generally reflect a bit of scarcasm. Learn to type English, there are many on this forum who do NOT speak English as their first language. What a shame that people cannot even spell correctly...yet I am their problem, not their poor language skills.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

courier770 said:


> My posts generally reflect a bit of scarcasm. Learn to type English, there are many on this forum who do NOT speak English as their first language. What a shame that people cannot even spell correctly...yet I am their problem, not their poor language skills.


It's not acceptable to be sarcastic, and you do make mistakes yourself. i.e. "scarcasm".


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Go back to t he topic of this post....learn to speak and write English correctly! You don't like it, too bad..."right" and "wright" are two different things. Learn to spell before you bash someone else. You can't speak or write the language? That's not my problem. Go back to English class and pay attention!


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

I give up.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

courier770 said:


> My posts generally reflect a bit of scarcasm. Learn to type English, there are many on this forum who do NOT speak English as their first language. What a shame that people cannot even spell correctly...yet I am their problem, not their poor language skills.


I can't help wondering if you saw the typos in your own posts. Your replies are making me think you didn't go back and check. You can be counted with those "that cannot spell correctly". Hilarious  yes I'm being "scartastic"


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


...and write and rite.......


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

What a shame that proper English has become the problem rather then how to actually use the language. You don't like my attitude you are free to ignore my posts. Correct spelling helps our non English speaking member to properly translate. Im so happy that all of you arrived in this country speaking english that everyone can understand. Obviously you rarely venture into the neighborhoods of your community where English is a 2nd or 3rd language like I do. You probably don't have to do a lot of pointing or nodding, you probabably don't have to say "se" a lot.I do!


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Go back to t he topic of this post....learn to speak and write English correctly! You don't like it, too bad..."right" and "wright" are two different things. Learn to spell before you bash someone else. You can't speak or write the language? That's not my problem. Go back to English class and pay attention!


Can't you stop being so nasty, maybe its time you go and take a nice warm bath or whatever it takes to start showing some respect to your follow members on this site.


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree. Enough already. I just want help with my knitting..the way this is going I may never get an answer!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Yeah I'll go back to Italy for a nice "soak"...we don't alwalys respect our less than perfect English speaking members. My English isn't always perfect,I'll own that. Sometimes I do confuse my English, Italian and Russian. mea culpa! When someone only speaks one language and can't get it right..what is the excuse? I'd really like to know?


----------



## Vignewood (Apr 18, 2011)

Yea Patty!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Please take the time to read the topic here "does anyone know how to Right patterns anymore"...the correct spelling is WRIGHT. God forgive me for correcting this...as someone who comes from a famliy where flipping English is NOT the first language understand that we don't always get the typos of you yanks, nor should we be expected to!


----------



## Vignewood (Apr 18, 2011)

I think it is write!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

"rite" is not a word in any language. You all seem to want to imput your "slang" into this format. I am not American by birth. There are many on this format who also are not. by assuming that all are, you exclude many. Do not assume that all here are American's or that 
English is our first language. I'm so sorry if many of you feel inferior that you only speak one language. Many of us and our families were forced to learn tongues we were not comfortable with.. We also managed to learn and master charts. Try to be a little more 
"open" minded. I'd ask you to think of the Jewish people who were put to death for nothing more than a difference in religion....can you only imagine having lost most of your family because they didn't subscribe to the most "popular" religion of their area..to be gassed to death because they felt their massiah has not yet arrived. How horrid it must have been in those death camps...struggling for a gasp of air...as those who felt they were more worthy breathed so free.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

Rite IS a word!
A rite is an established, ceremonious, usually religious act. Rites in this sense fall into three major categories:


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


it's right, wright, and write to be correct


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

Oh, my God! Enough already!

Dictionary.com says:

rite   [rahyt] noun 
1. a formal or ceremonial act or procedure prescribed or customary in religious or other solemn use: rites of baptism; sacrificial rites.

2. a particular form or system of religious or other ceremonial practice: the Roman rite.

3. ( often initial capital letter ) one of the historical versions of the Eucharistic service: the Anglican Rite.

4. ( often initial capital letter ) liturgy.

5. ( sometimes initial capital letter ) Eastern Church, Western Church . a division or differentiation of churches according to liturgy.

write   [rahyt] Show IPA verb, wrote or ( Archaic ) writ; writ·ten or ( Archaic ) writ; writ·ing.

verb (used with object) 
1. to trace or form (characters, letters, words, etc.) on the surface of some material, as with a pen, pencil, or other instrument or means; inscribe: Write your name on the board.

2. to express or communicate in writing; give a written account of.

3. to fill in the blank spaces of (a printed form) with writing: to write a check.

4. to execute or produce by setting down words, figures, etc.: to write two copies of a letter.

5. to compose and produce in words or characters duly set down: to write a letter to a friend.

right   [rahyt] Show IPA adjective, right·er, right·est, noun, adverb, verb

adjective 
1. in accordance with what is good, proper, or just: right conduct.

2. in conformity with fact, reason, truth, or some standard or principle; correct: the right solution; the right answer.

3. correct in judgment, opinion, or action.

4. fitting or appropriate; suitable: to say the right thing at the right time.

5. most convenient, desirable, or favorable: Omaha is the right location for a meatpacking firm.

wright   [rahyt] noun 
a worker, especially a constructive worker (used chiefly in combination): a wheelwright; a playwright.

Origin: 
before 900; Middle English; Old English wryhta, metathetic variant of wyrhta worker; akin to work

Can be confused with:  right, rite, wright, write.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

Can be confused with: &#8194;right, rite, wright, write.

But you're best off not confusing them on Knitting Paradise!! LOL It can turn into nearly 30 pages of nasty exchanges.


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

sandisnow44 said:


> Someone on this forum once suggested a book, "Charts Made Simple" or something like that. (Maybe one of the readers knows the right name.) I got it from the library and read it from cover to cover. I had needles and yarn close by so I could try all the lessons as I finished a chapter. I finished the book and still can't knit from charts.:-( So I went through all my patterns and weeded out any that only had charts. (I'd print them out cause I liked the pattern and hoped to learn to "read" them.) I hope and pray they never go to just charts. If they do, I'll just have to stick with all the patterns I have which is enough to keep me busy for a long, long time. And if any one is wondering about how much experience I have, I learned to knit when I was 9 years old and in August I'll be 68. I've done lots of sweaters(adult and baby), Fisherman afghans, caps, socks, even a full length coat...So I know what I'm doing. But you can keep those charts! (I hope my spelling is correct. We seem to have someone here who appointed herself the spelling police.)


since it is about communication (the passing on of a pattern) then it follows that if correct spelling and the use of the correct word doesn't matter then the incorrect symbols in the charts won't matter either. Most interesting concept.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I grew up a Italian/ Russian kid in a neighborhood that I never really that I felt I "fit in". My childhood friends where the children of parents who escaped the Nazi death camps..the tattoo's on their arms were testatament to what they endured. I was the nice Italian kid in the neighborhood who should have been clueless. I grew up with those kids...their parents baked cupcakes for my birthdays. I saw those tattoo's, I saw the pain in their parents eyes. The few grandparents who survived..well they helped raise me too. I noshed on the raisin cookies they baked. I saw the pain in their eyes. I was the oddball Catholic child in their neighborhood...they put their best cookies in tissue paper and pressed them into my hands. I remember every Sarah and Rachel in my neighborhood and as the lone catholic kid..I prayed that my "God" would look out for them as well.

Over the years we have all looked out for each others kids. The Michaels and Mikails have been looked out for as equals. The Robins and Rosealee's have equally been prayed for and prayed over. Eli's and Enoch's have been just as well anticpated..and loved. We have "schmeared" cream cheese frosting over the faces of parents...we have loved and my friends we have lost. I don't always express myself well...but folks we have all loved and lost. We are not reguired to agree....but in my mind we are all required to respect equally. I have lost a grandbaby this week. Probably the hardest thing I've ever had to face...please join me...turn your face skyward, look at that amazing sunset. you can disgree with me we might even be able to argue long after the sun sets..for now just look at that amazing sun set and please thinkof my little grand baby...pLease


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

jinx said:


> Paradise has members from all over the world. If we print a pattern in English that leaves a lot of people out. If we make it a chart everyone can make the pattern.
> I have seen several pleas for translating a pattern. I have also seen that the translations leave a lot to be desired. Charting does not need to be translated.
> I urge you to try a charted pattern with written instructions. Seriously try to use the chart only. You might find it easy. Best tip for me was to color code the stitches. Red squares=knit, blue square=purl, etc. jinx


For pete's sake - we can't get the members to identify if the pattern is knit or crochet by using a K or a C - how are we ever going to get patterns charted.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Please take the time to read the topic here "does anyone know how to Right patterns anymore"...the correct spelling is WRIGHT. God forgive me for correcting this...as someone who comes from a famliy where flipping English is NOT the first language understand that we don't always get the typos of you yanks, nor should we be expected to!


OMG!! The correct spelling is NOT "WRIGHT!" It's flipping "WRITE!"

And no one cares ... we all knew what she was asking and most of us have responded to the original question because we did know what the question was.

It's pretty pathetic to nitpick one's spelling in the first place ... but then to correct it with another incorrect spelling should be embarrassing enough for you to just let it go.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Please take the time to read the topic here "does anyone know how to Right patterns anymore"...the correct spelling is WRIGHT. God forgive me for correcting this...as someone who comes from a famliy where flipping English is NOT the first language understand that we don't always get the typos of you yanks, nor should we be expected to!


I just looked up "wright," and the definition given was: "a maker or builder."

I think a few people may owe you an apology. Your spelling was correct for the meaning of your sentence. But - you already knew that. Now we've been educated! Thanks for adding a new word to my vocabulary.


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

Oops - sorry to all - I did not realize that this was not a serious discussion.


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Please take the time to read the topic here "does anyone know how to Right patterns anymore"...the correct spelling is WRIGHT. God forgive me for correcting this...as someone who comes from a famliy where flipping English is NOT the first language understand that we don't always get the typos of you yanks, nor should we be expected to!
> ...


Amen!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Now I'm afraid to make a mistake. Ease up, everybody. Knit a little. It's relaxing.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Please take the time to read the topic here "does anyone know how to Right patterns anymore"...the correct spelling is WRIGHT. God forgive me for correcting this...as someone who comes from a famliy where flipping English is NOT the first language understand that we don't always get the typos of you yanks, nor should we be expected to!
> ...


Bonbf3 ... the original poster would need to clarify my thinking of her question and if I am wrong then I most graciously would apologize.

But I believe she was asking if anyone still writes patterns out in written directions as opposed to charting them and she was not asking if anyone still builds or designs patterns.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

courier770 said:


> "rite" is not a word in any language. You all seem to want to imput your "slang" into this format. I am not American by birth. There are many on this format who also are not. by assuming that all are, you exclude many. Do not assume that all here are American's or that
> English is our first language. I'm so sorry if many of you feel inferior that you only speak one language. Many of us and our families were forced to learn tongues we were not comfortable with.. We also managed to learn and master charts. Try to be a little more
> "open" minded. I'd ask you to think of the Jewish people who were put to death for nothing more than a difference in religion....can you only imagine having lost most of your family because they didn't subscribe to the most "popular" religion of their area..to be gassed to death because they felt their massiah has not yet arrived. How horrid it must have been in those death camps...struggling for a gasp of air...as those who felt they were more worthy breathed so free.


Dear Courier,
If English is not your first language, you do speak (or write) it beautifully. I took French - loved it but am not at all fluent. I decided to look up the word "rite" because we use it in the U.S. (Not sure if you live in the U.S. - you posted 3rd rock from the sun.) You taught me a new word, "wright." I hope you don't mind if I share a new word with you, "rite." I don't want to cause hurt feelings. You seem to enjoy language and words, and so do I - so I thought I'd send this. If this offends you, I apologize.

From an English language dictionary:
rite |rīt|
noun
a religious or other solemn ceremony or act : the rite of communion | fertility rites.
 a body of customary observances characteristic of a church or a part of it : the Byzantine rite.
 a social custom, practice, or conventional act : the family Christmas rite.
PHRASES
rite of passage a ceremony or event marking an important stage in someone's life, esp. birth, puberty, marriage, and death : a novel that depicts the state of adolescence and the rites of passage that lead to adulthood.
ORIGIN Middle English : from Latin ritus (

Bonnie


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
Suzanne


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


You're rite, I mean write, I mean wright, I mean right!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> Oops - sorry to all - I did not realize that this was not a serious discussion.


It was a simple topic that once again got off topic and ridiculous because Courier had to jump in and be mean. Then, as usual, when she got called out for it she has some huge personal reason and tries to get everyone to feel sorry for her rather than admit she was wrong. Most of her rantings and claims about herself don't even make sense, or contradict what she wrote on another thread, so I doubt many of them are even true. I am sorry if she truly did lose a grandchild, but guess what, so have many of us, and we don't act like that to others. Mean is mean, period. Plenty of us are going through personal crises right now, she isn't the only one.

Enough of this "Wright" is only a NOUN, not a verb - look it up http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Wright - so no she isn't right. The correct word would have been "write" which IS a verb - look here http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+write&qpvt=write+definition&FORM=DTPDIA if it is that important to anyone. 
We all know what the poor original poster was trying to say, and eveyone but Courier answered her appropriately. That should tell you everything you need to know.

I am just plain sick of bullies! If you can't play nice with others, go play somewhere else.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

And I don't mean anything against the person whose reply I quoted. I just meant it as she was right, why did it become such a serious topic.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

ssho - your shawl is gorgeous - where can we see your patterns?


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you Vicki! I'm SSHO on Ravelry.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

ssho said:


> Thank you Vicki! I'm SSHO on Ravelry.


Thanks! going there now!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow...you can cut the freakin' negativity with a butter knife!!!!!....I'm getting tired and achy just reading all of this....I'm all for freedom of speech....or in this case, freedom of the written word....but when people start beating each other up with words, it makes everyone lose....come on people....I think we were ALL taught at an early age that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all....sarcasm has it's place...god knows I'm extremely sarcastic!!!...but I don't use it to be mean. To me it's a form of speech to draw laughter....NOT "blood"....


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

vjh1530 said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you Vicki! I'm SSHO on Ravelry.
> ...


I tool a peek at SSHO's Esty Shop and her items are just beautiful.


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

ssho why can't I bring up your etsy? I also, would like to get your shawl pattern.


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you so much for the compliment!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

I love this forum....and I've been known to jump in and "slap a hand" when someone says something nasty and/or mean to someone else....we need to call a detente here in KP...we are, indeed, a "melting pot" of not only people but also of crafts...we're here to share....and the last time I looked we had no "spelling police"....and, yes, pretty much everyone I've ever seen posting on here has written in "English" or their own particular version of it. It seems that if someone doesn't understand something that is written in here it's their responsibility to ASK for an explanation...if nothing is asked then it should stand as written.....


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

My shop name on etsy is Suzanne Sullivan.


----------



## ValJal (May 14, 2012)

Also a charted pattern can be read by multi-language groups it is universal. For complex knitting patterns or fair Isle knitting a chart is visually easier to keep ones place. It just takes practice like any other learned skill.


----------



## ValJal (May 14, 2012)

Acharted pattern can be read by multi-language groups it is universal. For complex knitting patterns or fair Isle knitting a chart is visually easier to keep ones place. It just takes practice like any other learned skill.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> I love this forum....and I've been known to jump in and "slap a hand" when someone says something nasty and/or mean to someone else....we need to call a detente here in KP...we are, indeed, a "melting pot" of not only people but also of crafts...we're here to share....and the last time I looked we had no "spelling police"....and, yes, pretty much everyone I've ever seen posting on here has written in "English" or their own particular version of it. It seems that if someone doesn't understand something that is written in here it's their responsibility to ASK for an explanation...if nothing is asked then it should stand as written.....


My point exactly. Sorry if I was strong but I am so getting tired seeing a thread I am enjoying turned into a smackdown by certain individuals. And ignoring them only encourages them. Many of us have posted something that was misunderstood and have apologized when we realized how we were perceived. A simple sorry is fine, continuing to rant is just childish.

I'm done with this thread, marking it "unwatch". Thanks for listening.
Vicki


----------



## ValJal (May 14, 2012)

How does one publish an original knitting pattern? Can you find people in this forum to help proof and test a pattern?


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

ValJal said:


> How does one publish an original knitting pattern? Can you find people in this forum to help proof and test a pattern?


People do ask for testers on here and it's done by pm but I have no idea how you prevent someone from claiming it as their own when you do so.


----------



## I. Heart Knitting (Feb 18, 2011)

I haven't gone through all the replies so I don't know if someone already mentioned this wonderful book........ "Charts Made Simple - understanding knitting charts visually" a well written and illustrated book by JC Briar. Soooo helpful!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

That is beautiful


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

People, get back to writing or chart reading patterns and stop writing all the other crap that doesn't belong here!!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

ssho said:


> I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
> Suzanne


Suzanne. That is BEA-utifal!!


----------



## I. Heart Knitting (Feb 18, 2011)

ginalola said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
> ...


I agree! Can that pattern be found on Ravelry?


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

yorkie1 said:


> People, get back to writing or chart reading patterns and stop writing all the other crap that doesn't belong here!!


Amen.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

ssho said:


> My shop name on etsy is Suzanne Sullivan.


Suzanne, your designs on ravelry and on etsy are absolutely lovely! :thumbup:


----------



## cathie white (May 29, 2011)

The words"pot", "kettle", and "black" came to mind, when I read YOUR post.It's risky to criticise someone for making errors, unless YOU are absolutely certain that YOU haven't made a mistake---seriously!


courier770 said:


> I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


You're right. You know, I've learned over the years that often when I want to say something, I just shouldn't. Sometimes I forget. Aaaargh! (That's pirate.)


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

yes! http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/country-walk-cape-or-shawl


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Thank you Peachy!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> I love this forum....and I've been known to jump in and "slap a hand" when someone says something nasty and/or mean to someone else....we need to call a detente here in KP...we are, indeed, a "melting pot" of not only people but also of crafts...we're here to share....and the last time I looked we had no "spelling police"....and, yes, pretty much everyone I've ever seen posting on here has written in "English" or their own particular version of it. It seems that if someone doesn't understand something that is written in here it's their responsibility to ASK for an explanation...if nothing is asked then it should stand as written.....


Very good!


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> You're right. You know, I've learned over the years that often when I want to say something, I just shouldn't. Sometimes I forget. Aaaargh! (That's pirate.)


LOL ... I speak pirate!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Finally! Someone who understands me! Thanks, Peachy.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I wasn't being mean I was being literally correct. We seem to have lost our ability to pen the written word. After all "texting" seems far more important..."axe your momma if we can partay tonight" or other butchering of our language...like "borrow me fitty cents". Amazing that many of us arrived on these shores and actually are able to communicate. What a shame! We must look so 'ignorant' to others.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

We seem to have lost our ability to communicate in educated format...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't" If you care to sound like an uneducated hick, that's your choice!

One can take the time to learn to speak properly...or sound like a jacksass!

If you don't care for me, that's fine. You can either choose to speak as an eduacated person or an imbecile. My family hailed from immigrants and chose to take the time to learn to speak properly...instead of sounding like idiots. It's your choice. You want to speak like an idiot..hey you are doing a great job! Keep up the wonderful work!


----------



## Pattyhayw (May 29, 2011)

courier770 said:


> We seem to have lost our ability to communicate in educated format...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't" If you care to sound like an uneducated hick, that's your choice!
> 
> One can take the time to learn to speak properly...or sound like a jacksass!
> 
> If you don't care for me, that's fine. You can either choose to speak as an eduacated person or an imbecile. My family hailed from immigrants and chose to take the time to learn to speak properly...instead of sounding like idiots. It's your choice. You want to speak like an idiot..hey you are doing a great job! Keep up the wonderful work!


Time to pack up the laundry--the soapbox has arrived!


----------



## pridie (May 24, 2011)

I am a knitwear designer myself and dislike charts. My patterns are written row for row. I understand everything you are saying about charts but all the symbols are so much more work to memorize etc...I guess I am just a little old fashion. Besides, I am already learning something new everyday on the computor etc...Hard to keep up with it all.


----------



## jojoscat (Feb 28, 2012)

courier770 said:


> We seem to have lost our ability to communicate in educated format...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't" If you care to sound like an uneducated hick, that's your choice!
> 
> One can take the time to learn to speak properly...or sound like a jacksass!
> 
> If you don't care for me, that's fine. You can either choose to speak as an eduacated person or an imbecile. My family hailed from immigrants and chose to take the time to learn to speak properly...instead of sounding like idiots. It's your choice. You want to speak like an idiot..hey you are doing a great job! Keep up the wonderful work!


I think this subject as gone too far,, it's not because someone makes a spelling mistake that they should be called an idiot ,,,,
my mother language is french and i'm married to a scottish man who when we met could only speak english,,, now we are both perfectly billingual but we make mistakes sometimes and WE ARE NOT imbecile 
everyone should take a deep breath and return to the proper topic ** doesn't anyone WRITE patterns anymore?**


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Some people just have to have the last word....personally I think you need to ask admin how much your job as the "spelling police" pays...you sure took on the job with a vengeance.


----------



## aknitter (Jan 25, 2011)

I didn't realize that charts were "standard". Thank you for that bit of information. That makes a wold of difference to me personally. I have used charts for Fair Isle and recently learned how to read lace charts, thanks to Dee & her beautiful shawl patterns. Now I will go through my extensive library of patterns & consider knitting some of them. For me I love when schematics are included for garments. That helps me even more than anything. In conjunction I think I may have just put 2 and 2 together and it's making so much more sense. After all these years it gels in my brain. Yay! I'm officially excited by this. 

As for English, it's one of the most difficult languages to learn. We have so many words that sound the same (to and two and too) as I said about 12 or more pages ago. Everyone makes mistakes which is just how things are sometimes. We are all, after all, human. This is what makes people individuals. If we were all the same what a boring world this would be. I am not perfect nor would I ever want to be. Having a thread this long on a basic question is really going a bit far. Thank you again for the chart info. I will now "unwatch" this thread. I have my answer. Good night everyone !


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

pridie said:


> I am a knitwear designer myself and dislike charts. My patterns are written row for row. I understand everything you are saying about charts but all the symbols are so much more work to memorize etc...I guess I am just a little old fashion. Besides, I am already learning something new everyday on the computor etc...Hard to keep up with it all.


And I, for one, thank you very much! :thumbup:

I have only knitted one project with a chart. Even tho it turned out great, it was "work" for me and I much prefer the written directions to the point that I just pass over patterns that have only charts.

I retired from "work" last year and am determined to knit for fun ... if it's not fun, then I'm not doing it! LOL


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

ssho said:


> I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
> Suzanne


Suzanne! 
This is so pretty! I'm going to have to find this pattern!


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

jojoscat said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > We seem to have lost our ability to communicate in educated format...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't" If you care to sound like an uneducated hick, that's your choice!
> ...


 Don't you realize by now if you aren't Italian and Russian you are WRONG.


----------



## Martha French (Aug 1, 2011)

courier770 said:


> ...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't"


My friend Courier, you have made my day. I am also pedantic with regard to grammar, spelling and punctuation. That being said I often make typos and my eyesight is not what is used to be, therefore I miss these errors when I proof read. My mind also reads what I want it to read, not what is there. But, and here is a big but, I have found that you have made a slight mistake. Rite is a proper term. My dictionary that sits beside my keyboard defines it as a noun, and gives the definition as a religious ceremony; any formal or customary observance or procedure performed in accordance with prescribed rules or custom. OK it is only a Collins Australian schools edition, in large print so I can read is quickly. Just checked the Webster dictionary and that also gives the same description. Interesting point though, the Columbia pictorial dictionary does not include the term. Columbia comes in 24 volumes and does not have pictures for every word.


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

courier770 said:


> You can either choose to speak as an eduacated person or an imbecile.


Is this a joke ?


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Wow...you can cut the freakin' negativity with a butter knife!!!!!....I'm getting tired and achy just reading all of this....I'm all for freedom of speech....or in this case, freedom of the written word....but when people start beating each other up with words, it makes everyone lose....come on people....I think we were ALL taught at an early age that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all....sarcasm has it's place...god knows I'm extremely sarcastic!!!...but I don't use it to be mean. To me it's a form of speech to draw laughter....NOT "blood"....


It's difficult to use sarcasm benignly, it's a derivation from the Greek _sarkasmós_, which translates as _flesh tearing_!

Dave


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

ssho said:


> I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
> Suzanne


What a beautiful design, it's a pity I don't have anyone to make it for!

Dave


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Tiz ok Dave, thank you for the compliment!


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

The simple things can be made either ways. But the really complicated patterns can't be made written - not by a sense person - and couldn't be followed if they were. If a pattern is ... 20 pages long WITH charts, can you imagine how long it would be without them? 
The symbols ARE the alphabet of knitting. You can "read" without knowing the letters, if you just follow pictures, that's true, but you will only read small children's books this way. If you want to read novels you will absolutely HAVE to learn to read the symbols - the letters. The same is with charts. If you want to make a complicated pattern you simply NEED to learn to read the knitting language - which is to read charts. But it pays off - there is a whole new world with wonderful COMPLICATED - as for looks - patterns you will be able to make.
And... it's actually easier to follow a chart than written instructions. It is much harder to mess it up...


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > I'm also a knitting designer and my patterns are written, not chart form. Like you, I get lost with most charts and would rather read them! Keep looking, there are some good 'new' patterns in written form.
> ...


Dave, if you feel the need to make one, but need someone to make it for, I will offer myself up as a willing sacrifice! I'm not the fastest knitter, and have so many items ahead of that gorgeous cape, that it will be quite a while before I can make it myself.. <<smile>>


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

ssho said:


> Tiz ok Dave, thank you for the compliment!


It really is lovely, unfortunately it's hard for men to get away with lace at the moment, unless it's with this wonderful creation on display at the Lace Museum in Calais, well worth a visit.

Dave


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> The simple things can be made either ways. But the really complicated patterns can't be made written - not by a sense person - and couldn't be followed if they were. If a pattern is ... 20 pages long WITH charts, can you imagine how long it would be without them?
> The symbols ARE the alphabet of knitting. You can "read" without knowing the letters, if you just follow pictures, that's true, but you will only read small children's books this way. If you want to read novels you will absolutely HAVE to learn to read the symbols - the letters. The same is with charts. If you want to make a complicated pattern you simply NEED to learn to read the knitting language - which is to read charts. But it pays off - there is a whole new world with wonderful COMPLICATED - as for looks - patterns you will be able to make.
> And... it's actually easier to follow a chart than written instructions. It is much harder to mess it up...


It's also far easier to spot a mistake on a chart than a typo in a mass of complex stitch instructions. I check the simple little patterns I post here at least three time before hitting <SEND> and still miss the odd error in all the colour changes. Being dyslexic doesn't help, but charts for colour-work really are so much easier for me to both follow and produce.

Dave


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

glacy1 said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > ssho said:
> ...


That's the problem with this site, always more patterns than hours in the day!

Dave


----------



## pengwensgranny (Aug 3, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > The simple things can be made either ways. But the really complicated patterns can't be made written - not by a sense person - and couldn't be followed if they were. If a pattern is ... 20 pages long WITH charts, can you imagine how long it would be without them?
> ...


I'm with Dave on this. Charts for colour work. However, I dislike charts for one-coloured items. (I do counted cross stitch, so i can read charts, just dislike them for knitting)

With regard to the grammar-spelling issue being argued about on here, it is impossible to be sarcastic in the written word. Sarcasm relies on tone of voice and facial expressions.

(I proof read this before hitting send and found at least two typos. Hope I haven't missed any)


----------



## daralene (Feb 27, 2012)

FireballDave said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...you can cut the freakin' negativity with a butter knife!!!!!....I'm getting tired and achy just reading all of this....I'm all for freedom of speech....or in this case, freedom of the written word....but when people start beating each other up with words, it makes everyone lose....come on people....I think we were ALL taught at an early age that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all....sarcasm has it's place...god knows I'm extremely sarcastic!!!...but I don't use it to be mean. To me it's a form of speech to draw laughter....NOT "blood"....
> ...


And there's been some flesh tearing going on. Hope everyone can enjoy knitting with patterns or maybe even charts after all this.
Daralene
_______________________________
What a beautiful design, it's a pity I don't have anyone to make it for!

Dave
_______________________________
I think you will have lots of volunteers


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> glacy1 said:
> 
> 
> > FireballDave said:
> ...


Isn't that the truth!


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...you can cut the freakin' negativity with a butter knife!!!!!....I'm getting tired and achy just reading all of this....I'm all for freedom of speech....or in this case, freedom of the written word....but when people start beating each other up with words, it makes everyone lose....come on people....I think we were ALL taught at an early age that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all....sarcasm has it's place...god knows I'm extremely sarcastic!!!...but I don't use it to be mean. To me it's a form of speech to draw laughter....NOT "blood"....
> ...


Dave, I pointed out that sarcasm wasn't acceptable, but got some weird reply from the lady in question. That's why I gave up!


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

courier770 said:


> My grandmother arrived here and English wasn't her first language it was her third..thank you very much. You can either learn to read, write and spell or you can complain! Your choice!


I'm sorry Courier, but as you do seem to dislike spelling errors so much, I noted on your happy/sad email about the birth of your grandson and the death of the little twin, that the word 'shaky' was spelt incorrectly. I may get knocked off this forum because of my comment, so be it. I'm a faceless wonder so it doesn't bother me, but as the tone of some of the comments made by yourself appears barbed, then I feel I want to say something. You see we ALL make errors at sometime or other, NO ONE is exempt from that because we are all human. We all have gripes about things but try not to say anything for fear of hurting or offending. We all make mistakes in times of adversity and to correct someone who is in that situation is unfeeling. I am now guilty of that at coming back on you about the word shaky. No matter how many languages we are able or not able to speak doesn't matter. We are above most animals in that we can communicate, so let us all communicate with or without spelling or grammatical errors. If we all kept ourselves behind closed doors and never spoke a word for fear of using the wrong or incorrect one, life would be completely unbearable. No sharing of good news or bad news, no passing on information or tips on hobbies etc. How barren our lives would be.


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

inishowen said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenix said:
> ...


It has to be up to individuals to judge as to whether the use of sarcasm is either justified or acceptable, I merely seek to clarify with the etymology and thus assist their deliberations.

Dave


----------



## yolie47 (Nov 6, 2011)

Ditto! However I'm not crazy about charts either, mainly because I don't want to take the time, right now, to learn something new. I will at some point, but not now.


----------



## cathie white (May 29, 2011)

I think you meant "educated"!


courier770 said:


> We seem to have lost our ability to communicate in educated format...rite is not a proper term..any more than "ain't" or "tain't" If you care to sound like an uneducated hick, that's your choice!
> 
> One can take the time to learn to speak properly...or sound like a jacksass!
> 
> If you don't care for me, that's fine. You can either choose to speak as an eduacated person or an imbecile. My family hailed from immigrants and chose to take the time to learn to speak properly...instead of sounding like idiots. It's your choice. You want to speak like an idiot..hey you are doing a great job! Keep up the wonderful work!


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

yolie47 said:


> Ditto! However I'm not crazy about charts either, mainly because I don't want to take the time, right now, to learn something new. I will at some point, but not now.


This is my problem to...I don't want to take the time to learn something new at the moment so I like patterns that are written out and use the corner of a small ruler to keep my place while sitting at the kitchen table to knit.

I'm not being lazy...I'm already taking psp imaging classes and we have a small home business. I'm just busy enough to stay out of trouble, usually.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > Wow...you can cut the freakin' negativity with a butter knife!!!!!....I'm getting tired and achy just reading all of this....I'm all for freedom of speech....or in this case, freedom of the written word....but when people start beating each other up with words, it makes everyone lose....come on people....I think we were ALL taught at an early age that if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all....sarcasm has it's place...god knows I'm extremely sarcastic!!!...but I don't use it to be mean. To me it's a form of speech to draw laughter....NOT "blood"....
> ...


Ahhhhhhhhhh....but I only use it in a very gentle way...only barely stroking the flesh...after all, I merely want to scratch the surface, not flay the flesh to the bone....LMAO


----------



## Joanna88 (Oct 12, 2011)

inishowen said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenix said:
> ...


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

This whole post is getting mean and petty. I think everyone here has probably had spelling mistakes in their posts at one time or another. Can we let it go now, please.....


----------



## Joanna88 (Oct 12, 2011)

as I posted earlier...is it not time to wrap this topic up.going on far too long,I am amazed that one small blip could cause such a furore.......tiresome springs to mind.


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

daralene said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenix said:
> ...


Dave: Didn't realize you had weighed in on this discussion. Now, in spite of not liking charts I find yours easy to follow.
How would you like this group at your next tea party? Hope I haven't made a grammatical, spelling or other error.


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

inishowen said:


> Dave, I pointed out that sarcasm wasn't acceptable, but got some weird reply from the lady in question. That's why I gave up!


Inishowen, 
Your reply did give her the attention that she needed so maybe it did serve a purpose after all.


----------



## honeydewhaven (Mar 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> "rite" is not a word in any language. You all seem to want to imput your "slang" into this format. I am not American by birth. There are many on this format who also are not. by assuming that all are, you exclude many. Do not assume that all here are American's or that
> English is our first language. I'm so sorry if many of you feel inferior that you only speak one language. Many of us and our families were forced to learn tongues we were not comfortable with.. We also managed to learn and master charts. Try to be a little more
> "open" minded. I'd ask you to think of the Jewish people who were put to death for nothing more than a difference in religion....can you only imagine having lost most of your family because they didn't subscribe to the most "popular" religion of their area..to be gassed to death because they felt their massiah has not yet arrived. How horrid it must have been in those death camps...struggling for a gasp of air...as those who felt they were more worthy breathed so free.


Nobody here feels inferior...it sounds like you think you're superior.


----------



## mama879 (Jan 27, 2011)

Ok we all need to grow up. This needs to stop. It was posted as a good thing With an OOOPPPSSS!!!! in it so what. We all make mistakes even the person who started this mess. So If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it. I have read all 34 pages of this post. I do not understand why we had to have a lesson on history. This was a simple question on patterns. So lets get back on subject. I like patterns better then charts to. I can not follow charts all that well my mind wanders and after this post it might wander even more towards a good drink.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mama879 said:


> Ok we all need to grow up. This needs to stop. It was posted as a good thing With an OOOPPPSSS!!!! in it so what. We all make mistakes even the person who started this mess. So If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it. I have read all 34 pages of this post. I do not understand why we had to have a lesson on history. This was a simple question on patterns. So lets get back on subject. I like patterns better then charts to. I can not follow charts all that well my mind wanders and after this post it might wander even more towards a good drink.


I'll join you...got any tequila???...LMAO


----------



## mama879 (Jan 27, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> mama879 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok we all need to grow up. This needs to stop. It was posted as a good thing With an OOOPPPSSS!!!! in it so what. We all make mistakes even the person who started this mess. So If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it. I have read all 34 pages of this post. I do not understand why we had to have a lesson on history. This was a simple question on patterns. So lets get back on subject. I like patterns better then charts to. I can not follow charts all that well my mind wanders and after this post it might wander even more towards a good drink.
> ...


Lets go your place or mine? lol lol


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

Suzanne

Okay! I found the pattern on Ravelry.. I'm thinking about knitting a pelerine first from Elizabeths Zimmerman's Knitting Workshop book first. There's one on Ravelry that looks like hers but is not knitted in one piece like EZ's. This sort of reminds me of a pelerine but much dressier! EZ's in going to be simpler, as it is in garter stitch and very geometric. http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/pelerine-so40

Your cape is so beautiful and it's in my queue for a later date.


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

mama879 said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > mama879 said:
> ...


I'll join you! I have some really exceptional tequila! Sotol.. so smooth.. So, I'll bring the tequila!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mama879 said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > mama879 said:
> ...


Why choose...do both...then hit the clubs!!!!....LOL


----------



## larsan (Apr 17, 2011)

Thank you!


marylo12 said:


> larsan said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to jump in here on behalf of charts. I use both but I do not find charts intimidating once you try them and learn how to use them.
> ...


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

I agree...the yarn bowl is beautiful and I would like one someday. I've been knitting all these years without one but it sure would be nice to be the proud owner of one.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Yarn bowls are beautiful...and useful....I'd love to have one someday also.


----------



## aknitter (Jan 25, 2011)

Hey! Great site Bev! Thanks for you link.

Anita



bevqual said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > why are all the patterns in chart form? Its frustrating, I have to learn hoe to read patterns all over again. I learned to read patterns when I was in grade school. To read a book it is the same process as first grade, sure I've learned more words but it hasn't changed that much. So why if I want to knit a new pattern do I need to learn a whole new way to read directions?
> ...


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

I thought about making charts for my patterns but I think I'd need a special program for that and as I can't read them I don't know how good I would be at making them.lol


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

pengwensgranny said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > HandyFamily said:
> ...


It's easier to follow the... logic of cables or lace with charts...

And as for spelling - to me learning to write in english is like learning a completely new, different language... well, with the same grammar, but different words. 
Thanks Heavens for spellcheckers...


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

honeydewhaven said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > "rite" is not a word in any language. You all seem to want to imput your "slang" into this format. I am not American by birth. There are many on this format who also are not. by assuming that all are, you exclude many. Do not assume that all here are American's or that
> ...


To Courier, 'rite' IS a word. It's a formal or ceremonial act or procedure.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

mama879 said:


> Phoenix said:
> 
> 
> > mama879 said:
> ...


----------



## 8435 (Feb 24, 2011)

im surprised at u Courier770. for letting misspelling words up set u. well u always answer me and i make a lot of mistakes. i just can;t spill but u guys over look that. i still love u and your answers :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

mama879...Right on, now everybody lets get back to writing patterns and charts.


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> daralene said:
> 
> 
> > FireballDave said:
> ...


My main contribution was to state my preference for charts where colour-work is involved. I find a graphical representation helpful when working a design. I'm glad you find my charts easy to follow, I usually write parallel instructions because I know many struggle with charts.

Writing all the colour changes is incredibly tedious and it's very easy to make a mistake in the mass of dense script, such typos are difficult to spot. It can take me an entire day to prepare a pattern for posting, two-thirds of which is spent on the written instructions.

All are welcome to the Tea Party, but no shouty voices, they give me indegestion!

Dave


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Ok Dave, new enquiring minds wanna know where you post your patterns?


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> My main contribution was to state my preference for charts where colour-work is involved. I find a graphical representation helpful when working a design. I'm glad you find my charts easy to follow, I usually write parallel instructions because I know many struggle with charts.
> 
> Writing all the colour changes is incredibly tedious and it's very easy to make a mistake in the mass of dense script, such typos are difficult to spot. It can take me an entire day to prepare a pattern for posting, two-thirds of which is spent on the written instructions.
> 
> Dave


Colour charts are entirely different. I wouldn't even attempt intarsia without colour charts. It's the lace charts I can't seem to wrap my head around.


----------



## mimibet (Feb 28, 2012)

I have to agree with you also. I like written patterns much better, and haven't learned how to read the charts. I am in another knitting group and the owner of the group does charts, but she also writes out dishcloth patterns for us. she is awesome!


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

ssho said:


> Ok Dave, new enquiring minds wanna know where you post your patterns?


Click on my name and you will be able to bring up a list of topics I have created. There are around sixty of my designs on KP.

Dave


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> And my personal favorite is, "Eats, shoots and leaves." This was originally used to describe the food of a panda!


I read that book. It's a great book.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

nittineedles said:


> I thought about making charts for my patterns but I think I'd need a special program for that and as I can't read them I don't know how good I would be at making them.lol


Check out her links on the bottom of her message! Great patterns for baby things and her Grease blog has lot of great freebie patterns to knit! 
Thanks, Nittineedles!


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you Vicki. *blush*


----------



## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

mama879 said:


> Ok we all need to grow up. This needs to stop. It was posted as a good thing With an OOOPPPSSS!!!! in it so what. We all make mistakes even the person who started this mess. So If you do not have anything nice to say do not say it. I have read all 34 pages of this post. I do not understand why we had to have a lesson on history. This was a simple question on patterns. So lets get back on subject. I like patterns better then charts to. I can not follow charts all that well my mind wanders and after this post it might wander even more towards a good drink.


Pour one for me.


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

Snooper's Ma said:


> I would be much more apt to try charts if they printed them in more readable type. My eyes are not 21 anymore and the light xs or whatever they use run together. If they used some way to make the boxes more readable, I would be happy to try them. I might say that, when my eyes were younger, I did many needlepoint charts so I am not a novice in charts. READABLE charts.


This is my problem too. I just can't see the charts.


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

Schipperke said:


> Patty Sutter said:
> 
> 
> > Schipperke said:
> ...


I have to chime in here. When my kids were little we were at a wedding and there was a teenage distant cousin who had recently lost her dad. My kids, my sister-in-laws kids, and my sisters kids all came and told us that they were in the bathroom and this girl came in and started pushing them and telling them to get out of her way. All of us mothers confronted her and told her to keep her hands off our kids.

Everything was fine until the next day. My sister-in-law, who was the cousin to this girl, went to her mothers house and her mother tore into her for saying anything to this girl who was pushing our kids. Her own grandkids! She told her she just lost her dad and shouldn't be treated that way. Well, I'm sorry, but losing someone you love doesn't give you the right to abuse my kids and I'm damned well not going to stand by and let her just so she doesn't get her feelings hurt. I don't care what's going on in your life. Keep your hands off my kids. And that's the same way I feel about this whole spelling error convo and trying to make excuses for her. There are no excuses.

Having said that, I am sorry for what she's going through and I wish her the best.


----------



## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

Frogsong said:


> Schipperke said:
> 
> 
> > Patty Sutter said:
> ...


Thank you for that.
Patty the goofup who started this whole mess.


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Good job Dave! Found um. Thanks!


----------



## Schipperke (Nov 12, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> Frogsong said:
> 
> 
> > Schipperke said:
> ...


Dear Patty, You are still loved :thumbup:


----------



## Frogsong (Feb 26, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I wasn't being insulting I was being sarcastic.


So you were being sarastic in both of your posts?

"I'm a pattern designer and I wright patterns in both chart and written format. you probably aren't going to like what I'm about to say..since written English is now a lost art, there are many that prefer the symbols of a chart. It doesn't tax their little brains to read symbols instead of true English!"

"I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!"


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > Ok Dave, new enquiring minds wanna know where you post your patterns?
> ...


I figured you out fast...we look at your many designs and no one has time to rant about things that don't really matter when the day is over. Works for me! :thumbup:


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

ssho said:


> Good job Dave! Found um. Thanks!


Thanks, as you've possibly worked out, I'm into playing with motifs!

Dave


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Yes, very cool Dave!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

nittineedles said:


> Thank you Vicki. *blush*


You have some gorgeous things.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > Good job Dave! Found um. Thanks!
> ...


I've been looking at motif patterns because I want to do tee shirts with motifs sewed on then the material underneath the motif is cut away...beautiful tee shirts!...I have yet to make one, though!!!...LMAO


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

I had promised myself I would stay out of this now, but I need to clarify something after reading all the poor lost baby comments.
As per Courier's previous posting on another topic about her twin grandson, she said the baby died at 16 weeks gestation. That meant,, at that time the baby was all of 4" long. Since it died, it would not have continued to grow into a full sized baby. Plus, the baby who died would be absorbed by the other twin and the mom's bloodstream during the remainder of the pregnancy, so that by the time the live child was born the most that would be left of the twin who died would be a small amount of unrecognizable tissue. The child didn't just die, it died when mom was only 4 months pregnant. I know how this works because my daughter was also pregnant with twins 3 yrs ago and one child died at 6 1/2 months of pregnancy due to a heart defect. I was in the delivery room and only one baby was born. The doctor had already told her the other baby absorbs the child who dies, so she would be prepared. It is certainly a terrible thing to lose a baby like that - I know for a fact, but we all have tragedies in our lives and we don't attack others here. And this tragedy is truly not what what she says. She tells stories to play on people's sympathies to get attention and excuse her behavior. 
OK - "unwatch"


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > ssho said:
> ...


I agree, pretty inconsequentialities are much more fun. I've always liked egg cosies, but _The Lad_ loves them, most of my designs are for him.

Dave


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Patty Sutter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Spelling is inconsequencial! I was just having a little fun with courrier. It is hard to cross over to charts when we are so used to written patterns. But stay with it and you will get used to them. I was very frustrated with the charts while making my first shawl. I frogged it 6 times. Now I feel like I can read any chart. Just takes time and patience. Hang in there


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

Northwoods Gal, I just noticed your signature, "CEO of Livemore, Dolittle & Lovitt". :lol: Wonderful! :thumbup:


----------



## ScarletDove (Oct 2, 2011)

you know, I am an old girl and have great appreciation for the english language and you are correct. I see the english language manhandled every day where I work and young people cannot speak, spell or write well, even with college educations. I also do not like charts unless it is a color design in the pattern. I also don't like all the new-fangled acronyms, they are different than what I learned in the early 60's. They are too long and complicated. And I taught myself to knit from a book.


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Playful thoughts
My keyboard has the right to write any way it wants too, so it thinks. I don't always catch the errors right or wrong as that may be. I cite this little phrase: I reserve my right to write or wright with pencil or wooden needles and since I made my rite of passage long ago then I suppose I dang well deserve it. Unlike Frank Lloyd Wright, my architecture is soft and snuggley so let me make the world a happier place with good cheer , good friends, good knitting and smiles!


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

ssho said:


> Playful thoughts
> My keyboard has the right to write any way it wants too, so it thinks. I don't always catch the errors right or wrong as that may be. I cite this little phrase: I reserve my right to write or wright with pencil or wooden needles and since I made my rite of passage long ago then I suppose I dang well deserve it. Unlike Frank Lloyd Wright, my architecture is soft and snuggley so let me make the world a happier place with good cheer , good friends, good knitting and smiles!


Hear! Hear! Love it! :thumbup:


----------



## bassetmom4 (Feb 9, 2011)

Ladies, 
I agree and disagree with all of you! I learned to knit using written patterns over 40 years ago and was dismayed when after deciding to take up the needles again back in the 1980/90s I found charts were the THING! My how confusing they were to me - almost gave up knitting.

Then i bought EZs Knitter's Almanac which has her pi shawl pattern in written mode. Fell in love with it. At about the same time the pattern was published in a shawl book with both charts and text. This is how I learned to love charts, but it was a struggle. Let me explain that I am a true left handed knitter. When a pattern says to knit a right front, it knits up as a left front for me. Never had problems with this until I decided to tackle charts. Looking at my knitting, no one has ever commented that my knitting looks backwards. However, everytime I read a pattern, no matter what format, I must make a mental and physical conversion. Think place stitch on the right needle (for me place on the left needle). An ssk is a k2 tog for me, etc. Maybe this is nature's way of keeping Alzheimer's at bay!!


----------



## ssho (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow, beautiful work! I thought I had it tough with dyslexia. I would really be lost if I had to knit left handed. I commend you!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ScarletDove said:


> you know, I am an old girl and have great appreciation for the english language and you are correct. I see the english language manhandled every day where I work and young people cannot speak, spell or write well, even with college educations. I also do not like charts unless it is a color design in the pattern. I also don't like all the new-fangled acronyms, they are different than what I learned in the early 60's. They are too long and complicated. And I taught myself to knit from a book.


Thanks! :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> ssho said:
> 
> 
> > Playful thoughts
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bassetmom4 (Feb 9, 2011)

Thank you for your kind words. I sometimes wonder if there is some dyslexia there. LOL!


----------



## Jesemi (Nov 29, 2011)

I think you may mean 'write'


----------



## MaryA (Jan 26, 2011)

Hilary4 said:


> I am an old hand at knitting, having started seriously when I was about 15, nearly three decades, two children and lots of gifts later and I am nearing the end of my first charted pattern.
> I didn't have any option, because I REALLY wanted to make this cardigan and a chart was all it offered. By the time I had blown up the chart size and been through it with various coloured highlighters, I actually found it a lot easier than I anticipated and easier to keep track of the repeats than in a written pattern.
> And now I have a new skill!


I'm making my first item (Swallowtail Shawl) from a chart. The pattern has both written and chart instructions. I have had some difficulty reading the chart, but I determined that I was going to learn to do this. Soooo......I am persevering. I admitted to my husband last night that I think I actually prefer the chart - somehow I can "picture" the pattern better. This particular pattern was used in a Lace Blanket (60 More Baby Knits or something like that) and is only written out. I actually put the chart on graph paper because I couldn't figure out where the repeat was. I thought it was about 8 pattern rows, but now that I have it in chart form it is only 3 pattern rows! I'm still learning, but I think I will like charts!


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

MaryA said:


> Hilary4 said:
> 
> 
> > I am an old hand at knitting, having started seriously when I was about 15, nearly three decades, two children and lots of gifts later and I am nearing the end of my first charted pattern.
> ...


I hated charts at first, but then I learned how to use them. Like you I actually prefer charted patterns and now tend to avoid intricate patterns that don't use them. Too easy to lose my place. And you are right - much easier to figure out the repeat on a chart. Then I can memorize the pattern and make fewer mistakes.


----------



## nanma esther (Aug 22, 2011)

i'm just to left brain i guess


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

I think an individual's preference for charts or written instructions is probably down to his or her personal mode of processing data. An elderly friend of mine was ten when WWII broke out,she was evacuated, along with the rest of her school, to an estate in a rural location. Very few books made the journey, lessons were taught by school mistresses lecturing based on their own knowledge and drawing diagrams on the blackboard. Consequently my friend has an amazing ability to construct mental images from the spoken word, but describes them as, "just a jumble"when written on a page. She's by no means illiterate, having a good degree in theology, but says she nearly danced for joy when they started printing charted patterns.

It's all personal taste and preference, our criteria are wholly subjective. If the internet has a virtue, it is the number and diversity of patterns and designs available to us all, surely we should be celebrating this multiplicity rather than seeking to restrict choice.

Dave


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

FireballDave said:


> It's all personal taste and preference, our criteria are wholly subjective. If the internet has a virtue, it is the number and diversity of patterns and designs available to us all, surely we should be celebrating this multiplicity rather than seeking to restrict choice.
> 
> Dave


Exactly! :thumbup:

I will do a chart if I like the pattern enough, but so far I have found patterns I like just as well that have written instructions.


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

Why is that some posters feel the need to correct someone's spelling, grammar etc?
Does a spelling error immediately discount their credibility?


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

grandmasheryl said:


> Why is that some posters feel the need to correct someone's spelling, grammar etc?
> Does a spelling error immediately discount their credibility?


I'm not sure, the English language has evolved over centuries and only achieved a small measure of stability very recently with Samuel Johnson's dictionary in the eighteenth century and that only applies to the English version. It's a living language and changes according to use. Provided a person's intent is clear, I don't think it really matters in everyday conversation.

Dave


----------



## B.THETFORD (Mar 7, 2012)

Childish is the word that came to mind right from the off. I have never experienced suc h cattiness, childishness abd downright nastiness over one mistake in using the wrong form of right. If I could swim the Atlantic, I would be joining you with the tequila bottle held in my teeth. Barbara


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

B.THETFORD said:


> Childish is the word that came to mind right from the off. I have never experienced suc h cattiness, childishness abd downright nastiness over one mistake in using the wrong form of right. If I could swim the Atlantic, I would be joining you with the tequila bottle held in my teeth. Barbara


It's a misogynist's dream example!

Dave


----------



## daralene (Feb 27, 2012)

bassetmom4 said:


> Ladies,
> I agree and disagree with all of you! I learned to knit using written patterns over 40 years ago and was dismayed when after deciding to take up the needles again back in the 1980/90s I found charts were the THING! My how confusing they were to me - almost gave up knitting.
> 
> Then i bought EZs Knitter's Almanac which has her pi shawl pattern in written mode. Fell in love with it. At about the same time the pattern was published in a shawl book with both charts and text. This is how I learned to love charts, but it was a struggle. Let me explain that I am a true left handed knitter. When a pattern says to knit a right front, it knits up as a left front for me. Never had problems with this until I decided to tackle charts. Looking at my knitting, no one has ever commented that my knitting looks backwards. However, everytime I read a pattern, no matter what format, I must make a mental and physical conversion. Think place stitch on the right needle (for me place on the left needle). An ssk is a k2 tog for me, etc. Maybe this is nature's way of keeping Alzheimer's at bay!!


So gorgeous. Beautiful knitting and Bravo to you. It's too bad they don't have some computer converter for the patterns for you, but great knitting!! I hope they keep making written patterns for you, but never thought about all those difficulties others might have. You are not alone with dyslexia but when you are struggling with it you must feel alone. I know there are other knitters on here with it, so now you know you have good company. Keep knitting such beautiful works and please grace us with pictures.

I am learning charts. Always open to challenging myself, ha ha, well almost always. I actually signed up to take a course in 911 knitting. I know how to knit but always want to improve and learned so much from this fabulous teacher. I was the only student as the other one didn't show up so she took me through the yarn store and gave me a private lesson about choosing yarn and also gave me hints about using charts. When I gave in and went to the copy store and enlarged the chart and then color coded the symbols and made myself a magnetic stand I found I had luck, but it's not for everybody.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> I think an individual's preference for charts or written instructions is probably down to his or her personal mode of processing data. An elderly friend of mine was ten when WWII broke out,she was evacuated, along with the rest of her school, to an estate in a rural location. Very few books made the journey, lessons were taught by school mistresses lecturing based on their own knowledge and drawing diagrams on the blackboard. Consequently my friend has an amazing ability to construct mental images from the spoken word, but describes them as, "just a jumble"when written on a page. She's by no means illiterate, having a good degree in theology, but says she nearly danced for joy when they started printing charted patterns.
> 
> It's all personal taste and preference, our criteria are wholly subjective. If the internet has a virtue, it is the number and diversity of patterns and designs available to us all, surely we should be celebrating this multiplicity rather than seeking to restrict choice.
> 
> Dave


I think you're exactly right.


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

B.THETFORD said:


> Childish is the word that came to mind right from the off. I have never experienced suc h cattiness, childishness abd downright nastiness over one mistake in using the wrong form of right. If I could swim the Atlantic, I would be joining you with the tequila bottle held in my teeth. Barbara


Bring it on!!!...I'll be here with the limes and salt!!!...LOL


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

daralene said:


> So gorgeous. Beautiful knitting and Bravo to you. It's too bad they don't have some computer converter for the patterns for you, but great knitting!!


Wouldn't that be a wonderful idea???...an app that would read the patterns and then chart them out for you....then all you'd have to do is print it out!!!


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > It's all personal taste and preference, our criteria are wholly subjective. If the internet has a virtue, it is the number and diversity of patterns and designs available to us all, surely we should be celebrating this multiplicity rather than seeking to restrict choice.
> ...


peachy51, I just noticed your signature line. I love that philosophy! I've often said that I don't want to die peacefully in my bed of old age, but would rather die in some exotic place, having sex, in the middle of an amazing orgasm!


----------



## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

glacy1 said:


> peachy51, I just noticed your signature line. I love that philosophy! I've often said that I don't want to die peacefully in my bed of old age, but would rather die in some exotic place, having sex, in the middle of an amazing orgasm!


LMAO...yeah, right???...when it's my time to go I'll close my eyes and imagine this!!!!....LOL


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

glacy1 said:


> peachy51 said:
> 
> 
> > FireballDave said:
> ...


LOL ... I was watching an old Frasier the other day and Roz said "I want to die on my lanai in Hawaii overlooking the ocean and I want my husband to be so distressed he has to quit college!" I loved it! (It especially hit home with me since my boyfriend is 25 years younger than I am!) :mrgreen:


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> glacy1 said:
> 
> 
> > peachy51 said:
> ...


Oh yeah! We are on the same page! As far as charting versus the written pattern, I want to get better as reading charts too.


----------



## vjh1530 (Oct 8, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> glacy1 said:
> 
> 
> > peachy51, I just noticed your signature line. I love that philosophy! I've often said that I don't want to die peacefully in my bed of old age, but would rather die in some exotic place, having sex, in the middle of an amazing orgasm!
> ...


You are an inspiration to us all! I think I'll put that in my Living Will !!


----------



## rene (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm with you on this. I don't the first thing about a chart. Especially in knitting. I can crochet by a lot of the charts. But these knitting charts are too hard. I'm like you I will pass up a pattern that only has a chart and find the ones that are written out. Rene


----------



## KateB (Sep 28, 2011)

marylo12 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


Well said! As a friend of my aunt's used to say, ''There's none of us inflammable!'' :lol: :lol:


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


I believe you meant write.


----------



## usafwife (Feb 16, 2012)

Whenever I write a pattern I try to make it available in both written, straight forward directions, and also in charts and abbreviations. Everyone is different. I'm like you, though, I like the straight forward stuff.


----------



## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

usafwife said:


> Whenever I write a pattern I try to make it available in both written, straight forward directions, and also in charts and abbreviations. Everyone is different. I'm like you, though, I like the straight forward stuff.


Me too, although I sometimes limit the written instructions to the stitches and chart the colours. I have real problems typing out endless colour changes and have check them all at least three times, it's far easier for me if I can see what I'm doing; but I'm dyslexic, so all the numbers present a bit of a challenge.

Dave


----------



## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

I quit doing cross stitich because 1) My hands grew to not like the small needles 2) My eyes and brain grew to not like the charting I had to follow. I am glad that I am not going to be forced to follow charts as I have all the patterns I will ever need in the written form. If I lived to be 200 (which I won't) I could never do up all of the patterns I have. So, I just don't worry about reading charts. I don't purchase magazines anymore because most of the magazine is advertisements anyway, and the patterns are mostly charted nowadays, so why waste my money?


----------



## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I might take this poster a bit more serious if they knew the difference between "right" and "wright"!
> ...


"Write" patterns or "copywrite." Aren't these misspellings pathetic unless both of these individuals are being facetious!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

PLEASE!!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

PLEASE!!


----------



## yorkie1 (Sep 5, 2011)

OOPS!! (HIT THE WRONG KEY) NOT AGAIN!! Please stay with the subject, knitting and crocheting. No more talking about words used wrong or spelled wrong.


----------



## Joanna88 (Oct 12, 2011)

yorkie1 said:


> OOPS!! (HIT THE WRONG KEY) NOT AGAIN!! Please stay with the subject, knitting and crocheting. No more talking about words used wrong or spelled wrong.


hear hear ...getting out of hand and sooooooooo wearying!


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> PaKnitter said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


We are discussing written vs charted patterns in this thread. It has nothing to do with spelling.


----------



## Charlotte80 (Jan 24, 2011)

ROFL :lol:


----------



## terrachroma (Sep 21, 2011)

Well it took me a long while just to learn text and computer lingo. And I still write long messages. LOL
The thing is I could not get away from it as it is everywhere.
I think it's the same with charts.
The more exposure the easier it gets.
Also I know you non-chart folks are most likely tired of hearing this...but you can start with a very small pattern repeat and size up.
The only one non-chart readers are hurting are themselves.
Maybe just try a small one!!!
btw, idk, kk, Can't think of any more. oh ya. LOL
By folks, Robin


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

are the charts for regular patterns as well as fair isle? if so I've never seen them


----------



## terrachroma (Sep 21, 2011)

There are charts for everyting.
Robin


Britty43 said:


> are the charts for regular patterns as well as fair isle? if so I've never seen them


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

wow I have bookshelves of patterns and the only charts I've seen are for fair isle


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

OK gang! Play nicely or not at all.


----------



## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

Britty43 said:


> wow I have bookshelves of patterns and the only charts I've seen are for fair isle


Knitting fair isle ties me in knots. I knit a lot of lace and lace charts seem so much more dificult to me. I have tried them and I don't like using them. Maybe it's because I started with written lace patterns that I'm so much more comfortable with them.


----------



## glacy1 (Sep 30, 2011)

nittineedles said:


> Britty43 said:
> 
> 
> > wow I have bookshelves of patterns and the only charts I've seen are for fair isle
> ...


That's possible.. I used to only crochet, as knitting was too difficult.. once I tried and got comfortable, I am now addicted to knitting!! Give it a try! Be a fearless knitter.. I have to admit, I need to get more comfortable with charts.. I need to get out of my own comfort zone!! You'all try and I'll try too! 
Gloria


----------



## B.THETFORD (Mar 7, 2012)

If we want people to spell correctly and use correct grammar, this is not the website for them. They should either attend night school classes or look on google for help. THIS IS A KNITTING AND CROCHET WEBSITE and I hope we can say goodbye to "playing school teacher" once aand for all.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

B.THETFORD said:


> If we want people to spell correctly and use correct grammar, this is not the website for them. They should either attend night school classes or look on google for help. THIS IS A KNITTING AND CROCHET WEBSITE and I hope we can say goodbye to "playing school teacher" once aand for all.


Agreed! This subject just won't go away.


----------



## Wood'n'Wool (Apr 5, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> B.THETFORD said:
> 
> 
> > If we want people to spell correctly and use correct grammar, this is not the website for them. They should either attend night school classes or look on google for help. THIS IS A KNITTING AND CROCHET WEBSITE and I hope we can say goodbye to "playing school teacher" once aand for all.
> ...


The member who caused all the trouble has not posted here since May 14th. I believe she has been reprimanded by the moderators. Now, if you want this subject to go away so we can get back to the original topic, please stop commenting on it.


----------



## Merrywitch (Feb 20, 2012)

What about the word "write" !!! Please remember, when you get a pen and paper, or computer keyboard - you are writing.


----------



## Merrywitch (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes m'am !!


----------

