# Things are heating up in the world #13



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I hear some masochists are just fools. Whatever fits. Or never fits.
> 
> cookiequeen wrote:
> Oh, dear Lord! She's STILL here banging her head against the wall. Our number one masochist. Don't you think she hates herself for repeatedly posting here?
> ...


You know I wondered what that disgusting smell was. I thought someone had just topdressed their garden in pig manure. Then I thought no, pig manure definitely does not smell that bad. Unfortunately I then read the posts from the smelly ones. Ooops does me posting these words mean that I am going to be on the receiving end of the tirade or will she do as she says she does and ignore my posts? Funny, she says she ignores them but she still posts a reply to them. 
:?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> It would be extremely hard to put an end to lobbying, you would just drive it underground. Besides a professional lobbyist know how to phrase a question and who would be the best party to lobby. If you want to see how underground lobbying corrupts politicians you could examine the cess pool of Australian Politics whereby big business paid the politicians to grant them mining leases, etc. The money was not paid directly to the politicians but covered up in a network of companies and deals. White collar criminals always get a better deal in prison than common criminals. Just look at Allan Bond. What a conman, went bankrupt using other people's money, went to prison and then came out and became a billionaire again whilst the ordinary man and woman who invested in his companies and went bankrupt losing all their savings and their homes are still living on queer street.
> 
> As for the reintroduction of tariffs and scrapping trade agreements, well that could work against the USA. Other countries would then retaliate by trading with the countries that are signatories to the trade agreement to the exclusion of the USA and the USA would lose valuable export markets. If the USA reintroduced tariffs on imported goods then other countries would do the same to their import from the USA, resulting in a loss of export $$$s for the USA.


To be honest, Eve, there isn't much being manufactured in the USA anymore. The cotton mills are all gone, we may have a few auto makers left and appliance manufacturers.We do have our food "manufactured" here. Most of our goods are made overseas in China, Indonesia, Malaysia, India, etc. by low paid workers in horrible working conditions. That is what our corporations have turned to. We are paying top dollar for poorly made goods. We can leave them over there and start up new MFG jobs here., but they would need an incentive to do so. The state of New York is luring new businesses. They won't tax new businesses for a few years that start up there. If more states were willing to give that little bit, we could flourish once again and produce more jobs.
If they were to seriously consider our infrastructure, there are thousands of jobs right there. Rebuilding our freeways, train tracks, bridges etc is desperately needed here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> You know I wondered what that disgusting smell was. I thought someone had just topdressed their garden in pig manure. Then I thought no, pig manure definitely does not smell that bad. Unfortunately I then read the posts from the smelly ones. Ooops does me posting these words mean that I am going to be on the receiving end of the tirade or will she do as she says she does and ignore my posts? Funny, she says she ignores them but she still posts a reply to them.
> :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock:


You are so funny! Just grab a can of Glade and spray. We keep it stocked in the progressive threads for guests with verbal flatulence.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> The USSR was a _communist_ regime and it failed because of many, many reasons. Cronyism for a start. Fear was another aspect, lesser minions did not dare question those higher up for fear of retribution. A hang over from the Stalin era. The USSR was not a single country with many different states as is the USA, it was a union of many different countries. Since the downfall of the Communist regime these countries have broken away and become independent countries once again. Many of these countries were invaded and taken under the control of Russia during the Tsar's period of rule. Now there is an example of Capitalism at work, Tsarist Russia. The poor people starved whilst the rich paraded around in their glory. Yes, things were really bad under Stalin but that was Stalin and the dictator or meglomaniac he was. By the way did you know that Stalin was not actually a Russian, he was a Georgian, from Georgia and there has always been a history of unrest between Russia and Georgia. It is much the same with the conflict in the Ukraine today. The Tsars conquered the Ukraine and there was an ideological difference between the two countries. Catholic Ukraine vs Orthodox Russia. Throw into that mix the Cossacks who were not all that willing to bend their knee to Russia. A lot of people in Russia who now march around and call themselves Cossacks are in fact not Cossacks.
> 
> The downfall of the USSR was due to many, many factors, not just socialism. You ask "how are we to control a corrupt government under socialism"? Well, how do you control a corrupt government under capitalism.
> 
> ...


Eve, most of the problems you mention are the same as we have here in the US.

I see privatization as a colossal evil. I think large companies and private businesses realize they have just about reached the max on tax breaks and are casting their eye around for other sources of public money to raid. What better source than tax money intended for schools??? Arizona (again, to our eternal shame) has allowed "charter" schools to gain a huge foothold and we, the taxpayers, pay for them with tax dollars. These are for-profit businesses that operate under their own set of rules. For example, there is no requirement that the teachers they hire have teaching certificates, whereas public schools have strict criteria for qualifications and further require that teachers have ongoing education. Public schools must accommodate children with disabilities and provide special education, which can be costly. Charter schools? Nope. Additionally, charter schools are free to teach religion with TAXPAYER DOLLARS. I have written at length about this in the past. It's a travesty.

For-profit prisons represent another form of slavery and the exploitation of the prison system for profit is another way for private businesses to raid the public treasury. In Arizona, our current governor and his henchmen were elected with the help of some $400,000 from private prison donors. Upon taking office, the governor immediately requested an additional 5,000 prison beds to be built at public cost. He got 3,000, but that was hardly a win for the taxpayer. It costs MORE to house a prisoner privately by thousands of dollars a year and he also signed a contract with a prison operator guaranteeing ALL PRIVATE BEDS would be full, even if he has to transfer prisoners from state run prisons to do it.

Where do these prisoners come from? The fact that the prison population is predominantly black will tell you a little. In-depth studies of the problem have shown that black and Hispanic people are targeted for arrest, prosecution and incarceration. They are often poor and without resources to defend themselves. And sending them to prison decimates their families and communities.

In other parts of the country the very COURT SYSTEMS have been privatized. Cities enter into agreements with "administrators" who operate at no cost to the city by charging all costs and fees to the citizens. While some may say this is fair - let the lawbreaker pay his way - it is also a system rife with corruption, exorbitant fees and no oversight. The administrator decides how much profit he wants to make and sets fees accordingly. Consequently, we see people going to prison for being unable to pay traffic fines. This is the very real equivalent of a debtor's prison - something that we thought had been buried long ago. I firmly believe that justice is a civic responsibility that must have strict oversight and it should always be paid by taxpayers. Yes, fines and such help offset the costs, but the justice system MUST remain public and for the common good, not the good of profiteers.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> It would be extremely hard to put an end to lobbying, you would just drive it underground. Besides a professional lobbyist know how to phrase a question and who would be the best party to lobby. If you want to see how underground lobbying corrupts politicians you could examine the cess pool of Australian Politics whereby big business paid the politicians to grant them mining leases, etc.
> 
> For example
> 
> ...


You Aussies don't have a monopoly on lobbyist shenanigans. We can match you case for case and shady deal for shady deal.

Instead of tariffs, perhaps we should simply tax the hell out of the money the companies make. Win-win.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You Aussies don't have a monopoly on lobbyist shenanigans. We can match you case for case and shady deal for shady deal.
> 
> Instead of tariffs, perhaps we should simply tax the hell out of the money the companies make. Win-win.


There you go! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes we have Charlie Brown in Oz.


A current issue in Australia worries me greatly and that is that the present government and previous government allegedly paid 'people smugglers' to return their boatloads of refugees from whence they came!

If this is true, then those governments have committed the crime of people smuggling themselves. However, under Australian law, certain officers (such as defence, intelligence), have the power to enforce activities with immunity to prosecution.

Either way, it does not bode well IMHO.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asylum-boat-turnbacks-australia-paid-people-smugglers-under-former-labor-government-20150616-ghotbt


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## Pixiedust (Aug 30, 2013)

Good morning, Wombat? Have you had your coffee yet?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Remember, constitutional amendments must be passed by 3/4 of the states, which makes radical changes to the constitution unlikely. Nevertheless, people are rightfully fearful of the risk and I don't think there is much chance of achieving the ultimate goal by means of a convention. Support for it is lacking. So, we need to use the other tool available - an amendment passed by congress.
> 
> We MUST do this. Our democracy is at stake.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I have recently read that Illinois has that distinction. Arizona was second. I live in Ill. and my Evil Twin lives in Arizona. What does that say about the Sloth Family upbringing?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good night, ladies! I'm off to meet the Sandman. Have a good night!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am really surprised!
> 
> The Move to Amend thing is interesting. I just skimmed over it and will look at it more closely, later. One thing concerns me, and that is the Hobby Lobby ruling. I believe that the owners of a privately held (family held) corporation, should not have to sacrifice their religious beliefs. I don't think I could support an amendment that might force anyone to support abortion, in any manner. This ammendment would probably affect that decision. I'll have to do more reading and give this more thought.


After thinking about it, I think I understand your concern. It has to do with characterizing a corporation as a "person" and an amendment might affect that across the board.

I would ask you whether you truly believe that religious beliefs on abortion is more important than saving our democracy?

Remember, abortion is not stopped by laws restricting it. It is not stopped by obstacles that make it difficult. Women have always had abortions and will continue to do so, no matter what the Supreme Court or Hobby Lobby or christians say or believe. We have thrashed this theme to death and our opinions are polarized - we will probably never agree except that abortions are bad.

Are we willing to sacrifice our democracy over this?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Sorry but I have recently read that Illinois has that distinction. Arizona was second. I live in Ill. and my Evil Twin lives in Arizona. What does that say about the Sloth Family upbringing?


Well, that's the best news I've heard in a while. At least we don't take first place any more.

Upbringing? Nah. Luck of the draw.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> You Aussies don't have a monopoly on lobbyist shenanigans. We can match you case for case and shady deal for shady deal.
> 
> Instead of tariffs, perhaps we should simply tax the hell out of the money the companies make. Win-win.


Australia is trying to do that at the moment but it is very hard. They have to tax Apple Australia who then claim that they are not actually making huge profits because they buy their products from Apple Ireland or Apple Singapore and it is those companies who are making the huge profits and of course those companies are beyond Australia's Taxation laws. The Australian Taxation Office is now saying that they have embedded their workers into the 20 biggest overseas companies that are avoiding taxation in an attempt to uncover their conspiracy arrangements to avoid paying tax.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> A current issue in Australia worries me greatly and that is that the present government and previous government allegedly paid 'people smugglers' to return their boatloads of refugees from whence they came!
> 
> If this is true, then those governments have committed the crime of people smuggling themselves. However, under Australian law, certain officers (such as defence, intelligence), have the power to enforce activities with immunity to prosecution.
> 
> ...


Thanks for bringing that up, it was my next point of view. It has been said that this is illegal under International Law.

Did you see Tony Rabbit in parliament yesterday? Sitting there with that smug smirk on his ugly dial. Did you see how he turned his chair around so that he had his back to the opposition? How rude? And all he could say was "But we said we would stop the boats and we have stopped the boats". Never mind the consequences for the poor refugees.

Yes, he did beat Malcolm Turnbull for the leadership of the Liberal Party but only by *one vote* not the resounding victory he makes it out to be.

The secrecy of the Sovereign Borders policy means that the public is being kept in the dark. And do not forget that those refugees who are picked up by the navy patrol boats are interrogated on board the vessel whilst it is on the high seas. No chance for the refugees to get their own solicitor or even advice. What chance for the refugee who has a limited grasp of English? And no chance for an appeal. Then there is the latest; forcefully taking away citizenship of people accused of fighting with ISIS or showing any support for ISIS? And who is going to decide this; the relevant Minister not the High Court. Then we have that clown of a Treasurer who makes such enlightening proclamations as "poor people do not drive cars or if they drive them they do not drive them very far". Never mind the fact that today you cannot get a job unless you have your own reliable transport, and that means a car not a push bike. Then he said "Sydney house prices are not overinflated. Nobody would buy in Sydney if that were the case". No, of course they wouldn't buy in Sydney, the only people who want to buy in Sydney are the people who work in Sydney and do not want to commute for up to two hours to get to work. Then he says "if you want to buy a house it is simple, get a good job that pays good money and then go to the bank and you can get a loan to buy a house". Yes, Joe, out of touch again. And do not forget, Joe is picking up his Parliamentary allowance for staying in Canberra when Parliament is sitting, and where does he stay? Why in the house that he and his wife own, so he is paid the Parliamentary allowance to stay in his own house. An allowance that is supposed to go towards paying for board and lodging whilst the parliamentarians are in Canberra during the sitting days. His house has 6 bedrooms and he would let some of those bedrooms out to his mates during the sitting session, so he copped it sweet both ways. Did you also see how much he paid for the house less than 10 years ago, $300,000 and it is now said to be worth over $1 million. I wish my house had gone up at the same rate.

Unfortunately elections are not only won they are also lost. Labor lost the last election because of all the fracas between Rudd and Gillard. Now they are trying to dig up some dirt about Bill Shorten.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Pixiedust said:


> Good morning, Wombat? Have you had your coffee yet?


She is like me, she is drinking it straight from the pot. She is up to here with the shenanigans of the Federal Politicians.

I am sorry but I have not read any of your posts before so I do not know where you stand with regards to right or left. I see you are not a new member though, you just have not made many posts here on KP. No I am not going to trawl back through any of your previous posts to see your views, I will read what you have to say in any further posts though and judge from those posts.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Quoted from http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/06/like_it_or_not_sanders_socialism_is_mainstream_edi.html#incart_most-comments
> 
> By Star-Ledger Editorial Board on June 15, 2015 at 7:45 AM, updated June 15, 2015 at 10:04 AM which includes pictures and access to a video conversation with Seth Meyers:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel your pain. I suffered with heel spurs and other maladies for many years. High heels were a right of passage for my generation, and heels aggravated pain in later years. I stick to flats too now, happy with a special color and comfortable fit whenever I can find them. I still love pretty shoes. I just don't risk trying to wear them.



susanmos2000 said:


> I hate shoes! I've busted every toe on my right foot save one, and no matter how diligently I search or how much money I spend I can never find a pair that fits comfortably. Heels are out--when I worked in an office I'd show up in smart suit and a pair of floppy oversized sneakers and change to a more formal pair just seconds before sitting behind my desk. If I had girls I'd discourage them from wearing anything but flats--nothing is worth the agony of attractive but stiff shoes pressing down on tender toes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Gosh, you raise a lot of interesting questions, Nebraska--I hardly know where to start...
> 
> The two that jumped out at me, though, are the issues of free education and universal income. I'm not convinced that an education that comes free makes it worth less in the eyes of students. After all, public elementary, middle, and high schools are free and many students work hard and do very well.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree about Socialism. It's just another attempt at labeling that confuses more than it explains.

Ps. I love your avatar.



Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> you need to learn a lot about Socialism. It is a good thing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Unless I suddenly got thin and shapely, which I definitely was not as a teenager, nothing would make that gunny sack look good except maybe as undies for a burka!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> Socialism has been tainted by those who do not want it to take hold and the majority of people have no clue what it actually means and believe it is bad.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have found that when Quote Reply doesn't work, that using Reply and then inserting Copy/Paste of original post accomplishes the same. PM if questions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Agreed, she does not understand Socialism or what Bernie Sanders is all about. Capitalism has been an abysmal failure and is destroying the country. It is easy to throw up your arms and say woe is me. That attitude never accomplished a thing. The only time anything great in the world was accomplished was when people got together and believed they could make society better and then they did the hard work it took to accomplish that change. I was fortunate to hear Sanders speak when he was here in Minneapolis. He is the real deal and he does not say making change will be easy. He also knows it is the people who must bring about the changes in any country not the politicians, the military, not the wealthy. KFN, you say Socialism is an illusion and I disagree. Correct me if I am wrong but you seem to have given up the fight and don't seem to think there is any hope for our country yet you offer no alternatives. That is a very easy out. I and others on the Liberal threads believe deeply in Bernie Sanders and Socialism and I will back him as long as he stays in the race. I want him for President because I am tired of settling for leadership that is just more of the status quo. When you throw in the towel, as you seem to have done you get what you deserve as far as the type of government you end up with. Don't you want better for your grandchildren than what we have? Don't you owe it to them to try to make the world a better place? I think we should discuss Socialism here. What better place than a Liberal Progressive thread? I encourage all of us who are Socialists or any who are interesting in learning more about Socialism speak up. We should gather links to explain and support our beliefs and opinions. I'm in and I hope many others will be too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me, the coverup by those in charge is the most disturbing aspect. I feel that a thorough and impartial investigation is the only answer to restore respect for police.



DGreen said:


> Everything you say makes sense. I agree that the vast majority of policemen are honest and dedicated and have served without ever drawing their gun or hurting anyone.
> 
> It is those good police who need to put a stop to the outrageous and criminal acts of the few if they want to have their own reputations restored and to regain the respect of the citizens they serve. We have seen far too many videos of blatant brutality and criminal behavior. It cannot be ignored and SHOULD NOT be ignored.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> You know I wondered what that disgusting smell was. I thought someone had just topdressed their garden in pig manure. Then I thought no, pig manure definitely does not smell that bad. Unfortunately I then read the posts from the smelly ones. Ooops does me posting these words mean that I am going to be on the receiving end of the tirade or will she do as she says she does and ignore my posts? Funny, she says she ignores them but she still posts a reply to them.
> :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Stay tuned. And ignore. Chuckling to oneself is fine.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Eve, most of the problems you mention are the same as we have here in the US.
> 
> I see privatization as a colossal evil. I think large companies and private businesses realize they have just about reached the max on tax breaks and are casting their eye around for other sources of public money to raid. What better source than tax money intended for schools??? Arizona (again, to our eternal shame) has allowed "charter" schools to gain a huge foothold and we, the taxpayers, pay for them with tax dollars. These are for-profit businesses that operate under their own set of rules. For example, there is no requirement that the teachers they hire have teaching certificates, whereas public schools have strict criteria for qualifications and further require that teachers have ongoing education. Public schools must accommodate children with disabilities and provide special education, which can be costly. Charter schools? Nope. Additionally, charter schools are free to teach religion with TAXPAYER DOLLARS. I have written at length about this in the past. It's a travesty.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Stop privatization.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How about if we just replace them with honest people who will represent their constituents?
> 
> We have things in common, but not that much.


We have numerous choices on our ballots for some offices. The major parties select their candidates with negligible input from the public. It is extremely difficult to determine which if any candidate is someone I would want as the office holder. Most people vote party line or because someone looks better than the opponent.

When I first became a voter, the League of Women Voters was a flourishing organization. Candidates were researched and interviewed. A newsletter as neutral as possible was distributed to every household with the information. There were public debates. I think we were better able to choose according to our beliefs with such information. Now we just get negative ads on TV. At times I think a pox on both their houses.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I apologise for coming in late to the discussion on socialism, but time differences and a hospital visit this morning gave me no time to respond.

In the UK, after the war many of our industries were nationalised: coal, rail, bus transport, steel, energy and others. My father was a miner and fought in the war, and he always said that the day they went to work knowing that we all owned the pit was the best day of his life. Before that, mines were privately owned. The houses the workers lived in were owned by the companies, and sometimes the local shops as well. Win win.

That period, until Thatcher came to power in 1979, was the time of the most equality in our society. The trades unions were strong and gained many benefits for their members (my father no longer had to come home filthy from work and bath at home, as his father and older brothers had had to do, for example). The introduction of comprehensive education meant that I, and thousands of others, had the opportunity to stay at school beyond the age of 15 and even go on to higher education. We had enough for our needs. That is no longer the case.

Thatcher privatised almost everything: gas was the first, followed by British Telecom, electricity, water and more. These privatisations were sold to the people as a way of enabling "ordinary people" to own shares (a "sakeholder society". What really happened, of course, was that the shares were priced far too low, and "ordinary" people who bought them sold them immediately for a quick profit. So, they ended up in the usual hands at a knockdown price. The added bonus for us was that a new layer of responsiblity was inserted into what used to be a service: shareholders who had to make a profit. 

In the last few years, there has been a great outcry over the price of energy to domestic consumers. There are more energy companies than I can name, all providing the same thing but with a bewildering array of tariffs. The government's response was that it's our fault for not switching suppliers in order to get the best price. This did not happen when we owned it.

Hospital services (cleaning, for example) were sold off as well, under "compulsory competitive tendering". The hospitals had to take the cheapest tender, the employees were transferred to these private firms with no consultation. The result was lowered pay, and the need to make profits meant that the cleaners could not do their jobs properly because they were given strict timetables for their tasks. I don't think it's a coincidence that infection rates in hospitals went skywards.

The rail industry was sold off in sectors: some companies owned the land and rails, others the rolling stock etc. Safety procedures were cut back because it costs money, which has led to some truly awful rail accidents in recent years. Employees have been robbed of their trade union representation, so their concerns about safety were easily ignored. Workers are intimidated routinely - this is well documented.

A 60 per cent share of our Royal Mail was sold off last year at an unrealistic price (of course), and the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced last week that "the government's remaining 30 per cent stake" would be sold in the near future. I put that in quotation marks because it isn't the government's stake, it's ours. The whole language has been corrupted by crony capitalism.

People used to say about nationalised industries that the workers were all bone-idle, the service was terrible, and what it needed was a good dose of privatisation. Not many people say that any more.

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but it's something I feel very strongly about. We used to have public services here, but no longer.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> We are having a problem here in Australia with both the Federal and State Governments outsourcing everything to the private sector. Hospitals and supposed to be public hospitals owned and run by the people through the Government but the Government is opting for what they call 'joint venture - public and private hospitals'. The private enterprises build and run the hospitals but do not charge the patients as private hospitals do, the general public is still entitled to free treatment. Unfortunately the State Government here in WA gave the contract to St Johns Medical, a Catholic run institution. As a result there will be no contraception advice or medical procedures, no termination of pregnancies under any circumstances whether medically needed or not, no sterilisation procedures even for a mother who already has too many mouths to feed. OK said the Government we will just designate part of the new public hospital for these procedures to be carried out. No, said St Johns, you cannot use our hospital for that - never mind it is a public hospital. Ok said the Government we will just build a little stand alone clinic in the corner of the carpark. No, said St John you cannot use any part of our infrastructure to do that, and the car park is part of our infrastructure. OK said the Government then we will build it outside the carpark. No said St John, you cannot use arny part of our infrastructure to do that and the fence around the carpark is part of our infrastructure. And you cannot build the clinic where it can be seen from the main entrance of the hospital. Ummmmm well the main entrance is off the car park so the new clinic would be seen from the main entrance. And there is nowhere else on the site to build the clinic.
> 
> The result, the Government is funding a small private operator who runs a clinic somewhere in Midland to provide these services. It is somewhere in one of the back streets of Midland, I know the name of the street but have absolutely no idea where that street is. I have lived here now for 25 years and grew up in Midland or the surrounding area so know Midland very well.
> 
> ...


Here's how I see the problem of outsourcing or privatization. Governments have made all kinds of promises to provide services. In the end, there's not enough money to provide those services. Tax revenues have fallen due to unemployment. They won't raise taxes on the wealthy, and they can't raise them enough on the remaining working class, without causing revolt of some kind. They don't want to cut the services, because again, the people might revolt, not to mention that they won't get reelected. So, when the corporations came along and said, we'll do it for less, they thought that was their answer. But of course, the corporations can't do it for less, they just give you less. All of the wonderful services that everyone thinks should be free, cost a lot and the remnant of the working class, just can't afford to foot the bill. It's very easy to say that the solution is to raise taxes on the wealthy. It's even logical. But the same wealthy that control my country, control yours. It isn't going to happen. It is their intent to bleed us dry and not one government IN THE WORLD, will stand up to them. Any individual who tried, would be assassinated and any government who tried would be destroyed economically and by war. They own the governments. It may sound crazy, but the same small group of people who own your central bank own ours, and every central bank in the world. They control the money and the power. Stand up to them, and the first thing that will happen is, you'll end up like the Greeks, having to dig through dumpsters to find food.

It sounds like a great thing to provide for everyone's needs. But those people who own the central banks AND all of the major corporations, are not going to let it happen. They want it all! They want worldwide power and control. We'll end up little more than slaves. Our governments will not stop them because they're owned by them. If anybody tried to tell me that we were going to become a socialist nation, all that would tell me is that they're coming after, everything they don't yet own. And they will not stop until they own everything. So, I think we're playing with fire, when we even consider letting our governments be the owners of our jobs. It would be a very dangerous thing to make everyone dependent upon the governments. That gives them absolute power and control.

When it comes to the USSR, the idea was presented as socialism. They had to get the people to go along. So, they told everyone how wonderful socialism was, how it would take care of them. The problem was, the country's leaders were people. People become obsessed with power and control. To keep and build that power and control, you have too buy off and pay off, lots of other people. And you end up with a ruling class who live like kings, while everyone else works to support their lifestyles. All of the promises that were made to the people, fall apart. After the ruling class has skimmed off the top, there isn't enough money to keep the hospitals running efficiently, there are shortages, outsourcing. The prisons can't be run efficiently, so they too get outsourced and turned into work camps. Utilities aren't run efficiently, you end up with black outs and water shortages. Eventually, the people who do all of the work, are scrambling around trying to get the very things they need, to sustain life. There is no longer such a thing as, rule by the people. The governments are not the people. And the property of the government is not the property of the people. I think it would be very dangerous to give them the ultimate power and control. I think we'd end up, just like the USSR.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How would an amendment to overturn Citizens United affect religion or abortion rights? I see those as totally separate issues.
> 
> The Supreme Court decision on Hobby Lobby was based on enforcing the Restoration of Religious Freedom Act and had nothing to do with money or campaign contributions or elections, for that matter.


They'll use the whole "corporations aren't people" thing, to overturn the Hobby Lobby ruling. They'll say that the owners of Hobby Lobby have no constitutional rights, because they incorporated their business. I think we shouldn't open a door that we might not be able to close. We should focus on election reform and criminal behavior of those who run our country. Lawyers have a way of twisting things to make them say whatever they want. We should be very specific and not allow any vague language, that can be reinterpreted in the future.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny, isn't that what we thought we were doing? :- On a serious note, I believe that there is hope for the changes we need to make.


I wish that I thought so. For decades, I've felt like I was only voting for the lesser of two evils.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I apologise for coming in late to the discussion on socialism, but time differences and a hospital visit this morning gave me no time to respond.
> 
> In the UK, after the war many of our industries were nationalised: coal, rail, bus transport, steel, energy and others. My father was a miner and fought in the war, and he always said that the day they went to work knowing that we all owned the pit was the best day of his life. Before that, mines were privately owned. The houses the workers lived in were owned by the companies, and sometimes the local shops as well. Win win.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post and comments on the evil witch, Thatcher. Not many will remember what she did to the British economy with her privatise at any cost regime, but some of us do.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> It would be extremely hard to put an end to lobbying, you would just drive it underground. Besides a professional lobbyist know how to phrase a question and who would be the best party to lobby. If you want to see how underground lobbying corrupts politicians you could examine the cess pool of Australian Politics whereby big business paid the politicians to grant them mining leases, etc.
> 
> For example
> 
> ...


You've nothing down there that we don't have here. The lobbyists are the faces of the corporations, who buy our government. Here in the US, they actually write our laws, and present them to our congressmen and senators. There are countless ways that they use to pay off our politicians. They don't have to pass cash back and forth. It could come in the manner of a multi million dollar job for a spouse. Or a stock tip that's guaranteed to pay off. Or a mansion for pennies on the dollar. Or a whisper in the ear, to buy a particular piece of land, that the government is planning on buying at a later date. Vacations all over the world. The list is endless. But as long as no one will prosecute them, they're safe. And the reason no one will prosecute them, is because they're making sure the prosecutors gets their goodies as well. I don't know if its even possible to rout out the corruption. It may be too big.

As to the issue of tarriffs. The US is operating under such a trade deficit that I don't think it would matter. The biggest thing we export to other countries is food. If other countries didn't buy our food, our food costs at home would drop.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes we have Charlie Brown in Oz.


It seems to me that every country in the world, is just an extension of every other. It amazes me how similar we all are and how far back it goes. I know that everything is global now, but I wasn't sure if it has been since the 60s. That's why I didn't know if you had Charlie Brown. I know we never had anything from Australia. Interesting.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> They'll use the whole "corporations aren't people" thing, to overturn the Hobby Lobby ruling. They'll say that the owners of Hobby Lobby have no constitutional rights, because they incorporated their business. I think we shouldn't open a door that we might not be able to close. We should focus on election reform and criminal behavior of those who run our country. Lawyers have a way of twisting things to make them say whatever they want. We should be very specific and not allow any vague language, that can be reinterpreted in the future.


The Hobby Lobby ruling has been thrashed and beaten to death on this thread.

My only comment is that Hobby Lobby wants the benefits of incorporation but not the downside (to them) of not being able to claim they have religious beliefs. Of course, as it is, they have it both ways. Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE and we all know that. Let them revert to a proprietorship and they can do as they damn well please.

I would ask again, is the abortion issue so important that it's worth risking our democracy, particularly when laws against it don't stop it from happening?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> To be honest, Eve, there isn't much being manufactured in the USA anymore. The cotton mills are all gone, we may have a few auto makers left and appliance manufacturers.We do have our food "manufactured" here. Most of our goods are made overseas in China, Indonesia, Malaysia, India, etc. by low paid workers in horrible working conditions. That is what our corporations have turned to. We are paying top dollar for poorly made goods. We can leave them over there and start up new MFG jobs here., but they would need an incentive to do so. The state of New York is luring new businesses. They won't tax new businesses for a few years that start up there. If more states were willing to give that little bit, we could flourish once again and produce more jobs.
> If they were to seriously consider our infrastructure, there are thousands of jobs right there. Rebuilding our freeways, train tracks, bridges etc is desperately needed here.


Keep in mind that most of the remaining auto makers aren't manufacturing their own parts. Those are imported from somewhere else. And a huge part of our food is shipped to China, to be processed, and then shipped back to us. If the TPP passes, our food will be sold elsewhere and we'll be buying our food directly from China. We'll be the ones who's people are dying from whatever they put into the food. Think of melamine in the milk. No one will be allowed to even ask, what they're putting in the food.

You spoke of New York not taxing new businesses. Have you heard of "tax increment financing"? They're using that here, and all over. When a corporation goes into an existing area and redevelops, they can get tax increment financing to find that development. What they do is declare the area " blighted" a make a deal with the developer. The developer will receive all of the tax revenue generated within that area, for 20-25 years. Here in Omaha, we had a shopping mall that was becoming outdated. Gang members started hanging out there. The city made a deal in which they declared the mall and surrounding area, blighted. There were homes in this area that were valued at over a Million dollars, which is a LOT for Omaha. The people who owned the homes didn't want them to be declared blighted, but too bad. The developer gets the tax revenues. That money should be going to the city, so everyone in the city is forced to make up for the loss in revenue that goes directly to a corporation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Eve, most of the problems you mention are the same as we have here in the US.
> 
> I see privatization as a colossal evil. I think large companies and private businesses realize they have just about reached the max on tax breaks and are casting their eye around for other sources of public money to raid. What better source than tax money intended for schools??? Arizona (again, to our eternal shame) has allowed "charter" schools to gain a huge foothold and we, the taxpayers, pay for them with tax dollars. These are for-profit businesses that operate under their own set of rules. For example, there is no requirement that the teachers they hire have teaching certificates, whereas public schools have strict criteria for qualifications and further require that teachers have ongoing education. Public schools must accommodate children with disabilities and provide special education, which can be costly. Charter schools? Nope. Additionally, charter schools are free to teach religion with TAXPAYER DOLLARS. I have written at length about this in the past. It's a travesty.
> 
> ...


I had not heard of court systems being privatized. That takes the cake! I can imagine them making deals with the prisons, to send them how ever many prisoners they need. I remember reading a while back (I think it was in Kansas City) that juvenile court judges were taking kick backs for every child that they sent to a particular mental health facility. Many of these kids should have received probation or even had the charges dismissed, but lots were sent away, as the judge got paid for each one he sent there. I would imagine the same happens with judges in adult courts. I wonder how many end up going to prison, just because the judge gets a kickback?

The number 1 issue with privatization, that concerns me the most is, corporations buying up our water companies and our water rights. Water is life! And it's becoming unaffordable for a lot of people. Water should belong to no one! Municipalities should operate facilities to deliver water to the people and they should be operated as non profit. It outrages me that any one, any entity or any government is allowed to declare that the water belongs to them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> A current issue in Australia worries me greatly and that is that the present government and previous government allegedly paid 'people smugglers' to return their boatloads of refugees from whence they came!
> 
> If this is true, then those governments have committed the crime of people smuggling themselves. However, under Australian law, certain officers (such as defence, intelligence), have the power to enforce activities with immunity to prosecution.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering why they would pay them. Why didn't they just refuse them entry into the country, give them food and water, and send them on their way?

I know that, that sounds cruel, but you've already indicated that your government can no longer provide the level of service to its own citizens. Allowing anyone (who can make it there by boat) to stay, is just going to increase that burden. Governments need to made realistic decisions. Can a country support more people, or not? Resources are finite. It's their job to protect their own people, before any other.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Sorry but I have recently read that Illinois has that distinction. Arizona was second. I live in Ill. and my Evil Twin lives in Arizona. What does that say about the Sloth Family upbringing?


Maybe you have an inner need, to be victimized. :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> After thinking about it, I think I understand your concern. It has to do with characterizing a corporation as a "person" and an amendment might affect that across the board.
> 
> I would ask you whether you truly believe that religious beliefs on abortion is more important than saving our democracy?
> 
> ...


I truly believe that protecting the lives of unborn babies is #1! Any society that will not protect the most innocent among them, cannot survive. It will fall, as Rome fell. It's very difficult to address this without being accused of proselytizing, but understand that I fully believe that everything starts with how we treat the innocent and the helpless. Unless and until we recognize this, there won't be anything worth saving.

I also believe that anyone who stands by and doesn't speak out, is complicit. Anyone who provides funds to kill unborn babies, is complicit. And anyone who says "it's not right for me, but it's OK for others", is complicit.

I know that you disagree with what I believe, but I cannot give an inch on this. I have seen and held fetuses. I KNOW that they are babies! If you had ever held a fetus, I don't think that you would EVER be able to say, that it was OK to kill them, that they didn't matter!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Australia is trying to do that at the moment but it is very hard. They have to tax Apple Australia who then claim that they are not actually making huge profits because they buy their products from Apple Ireland or Apple Singapore and it is those companies who are making the huge profits and of course those companies are beyond Australia's Taxation laws. The Australian Taxation Office is now saying that they have embedded their workers into the 20 biggest overseas companies that are avoiding taxation in an attempt to uncover their conspiracy arrangements to avoid paying tax.


Ah! The wonderful world of globalization!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for bringing that up, it was my next point of view. It has been said that this is illegal under International Law.
> 
> Did you see Tony Rabbit in parliament yesterday? Sitting there with that smug smirk on his ugly dial. Did you see how he turned his chair around so that he had his back to the opposition? How rude? And all he could say was "But we said we would stop the boats and we have stopped the boats". Never mind the consequences for the poor refugees.
> 
> ...


It all sounds very familiar.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree about Socialism. It's just another attempt at labeling that confuses more than it explains.
> 
> Ps. I love your avatar.


I'm still waiting for people to explain to me, what they see as socialism and why they think it could work here. But no one has answered the challenge. People keep telling me that I don't understand what socialism is. So please, draw me a picture.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I truly believe that protecting the lives of unborn babies is #1! Any society that will not protect the most innocent among them, cannot survive. It will fall, as Rome fell. It's very difficult to address this without being accused of proselytizing, but understand that I fully believe that everything starts with how we treat the innocent and the helpless. Unless and until we recognize this, there won't be anything worth saving.
> 
> I also believe that anyone who stands by and doesn't speak out, is complicit. Anyone who provides funds to kill unborn babies, is complicit. And anyone who says "it's not right for me, but it's OK for others", is complicit.
> 
> I know that you disagree with what I believe, but I cannot give an inch on this. I have seen and held fetuses. I KNOW that they are babies! If you had ever held a fetus, I don't think that you would EVER be able to say, that it was OK to kill them, that they didn't matter!


Bet you never held an embryo which is what usually gets aborted. Abortions are going to happen illegaly if you get your way. Nay to this point; yay to your understanding on how our society works.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> We have numerous choices on our ballots for some offices. The major parties select their candidates with negligible input from the public. It is extremely difficult to determine which if any candidate is someone I would want as the office holder. Most people vote party line or because someone looks better than the opponent.
> 
> When I first became a voter, the League of Women Voters was a flourishing organization. Candidates were researched and interviewed. A newsletter as neutral as possible was distributed to every household with the information. There were public debates. I think we were better able to choose according to our beliefs with such information. Now we just get negative ads on TV. At times I think a pox on both their houses.


I agree! I wish that we had a newsletter that presented the facts. I'd just like to know where they stand on the issues. I'd also like to have a spot on the ballot, to vote for "none of the above". Then they'd be required to hold another vote, with a new slate of candidates. I HATE having to vote for the lesser of two evils, especially when it's hard to decide who is the lesser!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Would these coops be owned and controlled by the government, or by the people?
> 
> I agree, it's an interesting conversation. However, I'm still not very clear on what others see, as socialism. I'd like to hear more about that.


Then read the Socialist web page and educate yourself on cooperatives.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

*Frump is just declaring*! what a fool he is. He is soooo arrogant. He is so self loving. can't stand him.!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> They'll use the whole "corporations aren't people" thing, to overturn the Hobby Lobby ruling. They'll say that the owners of Hobby Lobby have no constitutional rights, because they incorporated their business. I think we shouldn't open a door that we might not be able to close. We should focus on election reform and criminal behavior of those who run our country. Lawyers have a way of twisting things to make them say whatever they want. We should be very specific and not allow any vague language, that can be reinterpreted in the future.


Nebs, would you believe it? I don't disagree with you. I think things should be sorted out and that you are correct, focus on one thing at a time and don't try to deal with everything. Pick the most important battles.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Pixiedust said:


> Good morning, Wombat? Have you had your coffee yet?


Good morning Pixiedust! I have had several coffees and thank you so much for inquiring. It's 0127 am as I write and I shall retire to bed shortly.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Sorry but I have recently read that Illinois has that distinction. Arizona was second. I live in Ill. and my Evil Twin lives in Arizona. What does that say about the Sloth Family upbringing?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: That you're sloths?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Who is the one doing the drinking; you! I didn't 'have to lay low for awhile." I refused to read this crap thread!  I've been posting all along elsewhere on KP when desired. No one, not ONE, other KP user has said the vile words and insults to me as those who regularly posts on this thread (all Liberals).
> 
> I "can't stand not being front and center?" Yah, that's why you didnt she me post on this thread for for 5 months!
> 
> ...


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Australia is trying to do that at the moment but it is very hard. They have to tax Apple Australia who then claim that they are not actually making huge profits because they buy their products from Apple Ireland or Apple Singapore and it is those companies who are making the huge profits and of course those companies are beyond Australia's Taxation laws. The Australian Taxation Office is now saying that they have embedded their workers into the 20 biggest overseas companies that are avoiding taxation in an attempt to uncover their conspiracy arrangements to avoid paying tax.


My son was in an Apple store on Sunday looking to find out why his charger wouldn't work and the lady who served him was so impressed she asked him if he would mind coming in for an interview! Gave him her contact details and asked him to send his CV and reasons why he should be hired by Apple. She said he is very personable, beautifully spoken and
the kind of person they're looking for. The poor kid came home completely confused and said "am I really all of those things mum?" I had to laugh and told him yes. Anyway, he's sent off all his info and we'll see.

Oh, the lady found the problem and his phone is fine.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I apologise for coming in late to the discussion on socialism, but time differences and a hospital visit this morning gave me no time to respond.
> 
> In the UK, after the war many of our industries were nationalised: coal, rail, bus transport, steel, energy and others. My father was a miner and fought in the war, and he always said that the day they went to work knowing that we all owned the pit was the best day of his life. Before that, mines were privately owned. The houses the workers lived in were owned by the companies, and sometimes the local shops as well. Win win.
> 
> ...


I think there's a world wide agenda for the corporations to end up owning everything. It's happening everywhere.

Here in Omaha, we still have publicly owned utilities. Our gas, water, sewers and electricity are all delivered fairly inexpensively. Our electric company produces way more than we use, so the excess is sold and that lowers our costs. I recognize how fortunate we've been, but a few weeks ago I heard on the news, that someone from our water company was talking about privatizing. That would be the worst thing ever! In the past, I'd have been at the public meetings speaking out and I'd have been writing letters to anyone and everyone. However, with the addition of quads to our family, I'm not going to have much time for activism. I think I'll have to rely upon telling as many people as I can, and hope that they'll take action.

IMO, services that are necessary to life and quality of life, should be owned by local governments, or in other words, be owned by the people. I don't think that federal governments should own anything. The federal government (ours anyway) doesn't do anything efficiently. They deal in such large amounts of money, that they don't even recognize its value. Millions of dollars are to them, as dollars are to us. I think municipalities can handle things more efficiently and with more oversight.

That said, I don't think that socialism will fix any of the problems we have now, and may make things worse. It's the corruption that we have to deal with. Before we fix that, things will decline, no matter what else we do.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The Hobby Lobby ruling has been thrashed and beaten to death on this thread.
> 
> My only comment is that Hobby Lobby wants the benefits of incorporation but not the downside (to them) of not being able to claim they have religious beliefs. Of course, as it is, they have it both ways. Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE and we all know that. Let them revert to a proprietorship and they can do as they damn well please.
> 
> I would ask again, is the abortion issue so important that it's worth risking our democracy, particularly when laws against it don't stop it from happening?


We'll just have to disagree on this. Neither of us is likely to budge on our positions.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for bringing that up, it was my next point of view. It has been said that this is illegal under International Law.
> 
> Did you see Tony Rabbit in parliament yesterday? Sitting there with that smug smirk on his ugly dial. Did you see how he turned his chair around so that he had his back to the opposition? How rude? And all he could say was "But we said we would stop the boats and we have stopped the boats". Never mind the consequences for the poor refugees.
> 
> ...


What's going on now in parliament is truly embarrassing. I can't help wondering how other countries are viewing us at the moment although Indonesia is making her stance very clear. Regardless of whether certain officers have immunity to prosecution over this, the Australian government are not only breaking the law, they are demonstrating a blatant disregard for human life knowing damn well how dangerous the conditions are for the refugees and that in itself is a human rights violation.

It's all fine and good to "stop the boats" but I think Abbott has just lost the next federal election. Bill Shorten is being a bit shifty about allegations that the previous Labor government paid off 'people smugglers' also.

So, what do we do for the next federal election Eve? Donkey vote, that's what.

I do agree with the governments proposal to revoke the part pension to pensioners with adequate wealth. I'm surprised Labor and the Greens have blocked that actually.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Bet you never held an embryo which is what usually gets aborted. Abortions are going to happen illegaly if you get your way. Nay to this point; yay to your understanding on how our society works.


But I know what an embryo IS! And no one change change THAT definition! Are you aware of where all of this is heading? There are many people now, who support "after birth abortion". They say that up to the age of two, we should be allowed to kill children, because they're not really "people" yet. These aren't just nutcases. These are University professors and people who sit on ethics boards.

We've have declined to the point where we're not just talking about killing our babies before they're born, but after! As a country, we have no respect for human life! We have become such a self centered population, that we're willing to kill the weakest among us. And it won't stop there! Soon, they'll be coming after the sick and elderly! A decline won't stop until people take action, to stop it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Nebs, would you believe it? I don't disagree with you. I think things should be sorted out and that you are correct, focus on one thing at a time and don't try to deal with everything. Pick the most important battles.


Thank you, Shirley!

I don't think we can fix anything until we address and eliminate the corruption.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Good morning Pixiedust! I have had several coffees and thank you so much for inquiring. It's 0127 am as I write and I shall retire to bed shortly.


After "several cups of coffee", you may not sleep well. Perhaps you'll be with us a bit longer? :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> My son was in an Apple store on Sunday looking to find out why his charger wouldn't work and the lady who served him was so impressed she asked him if he would mind coming in for an interview! Gave him her contact details and asked him to send his CV and reasons why he should be hired by Apple. She said he is very personable, beautifully spoken and
> the kind of person they're looking for. The poor kid came home completely confused and said "am I really all of those things mum?" I had to laugh and told him yes. Anyway, he's sent off all his info and we'll see.
> 
> Oh, the lady found the problem and his phone is fine.


That speaks well of you! You raised him well.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> What's going on now in parliament is truly embarrassing. I can't help wondering how other countries are viewing us at the moment although Indonesia is making her stance very clear. Regardless of whether certain officers have immunity to prosecution over this, the Australian government are not only breaking the law, they are demonstrating a blatant disregard for human life knowing damn well how dangerous the conditions are for the refugees and that in itself is a human rights violation.
> 
> It's all fine and good to "stop the boats" but I think Abbott has just lost the next federal election. Bill Shorten is being a bit shifty about allegations that the previous Labor government paid off 'people smugglers' also.
> 
> ...


I don't know what a "donkey vote" is, but I'd take it!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm wondering why they would pay them. Why didn't they just refuse them entry into the country, give them food and water, and send them on their way?
> 
> I know that, that sounds cruel, but you've already indicated that your government can no longer provide the level of service to its own citizens. Allowing anyone (who can make it there by boat) to stay, is just going to increase that burden. Governments need to made realistic decisions. Can a country support more people, or not? Resources are finite. It's their job to protect their own people, before any other.


I agree that governments are duty bound to protect their people and resources but not by committing a crime! That's my beef. I have no idea why they felt it necessary to pay the criminals who brought refugees to our shores. And I wonder whether ALL of the boats coming illegally to Australian shores are being paid to go back. It doesn't say much about the government protecting it's resources if that is the case.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Goodbye everyone! I've got to go clean. I sat all day yesterday, so I have no excuses for today. I must get busy.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> After "several cups of coffee", you may not sleep well. Perhaps you'll be with us a bit longer? :lol:


Maybe KFN! I'm not feeling tired but I've got a dental appointment later in the morning so I'm on the cusp as to whether I'll wake up in time or not!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That speaks well of you! You raised him well.


Thank you KFN! He's a lovely kid.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I truly believe that protecting the lives of unborn babies is #1! Any society that will not protect the most innocent among them, cannot survive. It will fall, as Rome fell. It's very difficult to address this without being accused of proselytizing, but understand that I fully believe that everything starts with how we treat the innocent and the helpless. Unless and until we recognize this, there won't be anything worth saving.
> 
> I also believe that anyone who stands by and doesn't speak out, is complicit. Anyone who provides funds to kill unborn babies, is complicit. And anyone who says "it's not right for me, but it's OK for others", is complicit.
> 
> I know that you disagree with what I believe, but I cannot give an inch on this. I have seen and held fetuses. I KNOW that they are babies! If you had ever held a fetus, I don't think that you would EVER be able to say, that it was OK to kill them, that they didn't matter!


I've never, ever said I like abortion and I have never said a fetus (much different from an embryo) was not human. It's a fine line and I'm not going to say you are wrong. You are correct - we disagree.

Nebs, we all love babies. It's a difficult question and it comes with deep emotion on all sides.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> But I know what an embryo IS!  And no one change change THAT definition! Are you aware of where all of this is heading? There are many people now, who support "after birth abortion". They say that up to the age of two, we should be allowed to kill children, because they're not really "people" yet. These aren't just nutcases. These are University professors and people who sit on ethics boards.
> 
> We've have declined to the point where we're not just talking about killing our babies before they're born, but after! As a country, we have no respect for human life! We have become such a self centered population, that we're willing to kill the weakest among us. And it won't stop there! Soon, they'll be coming after the sick and elderly! A decline won't stop until people take action, to stop it.


Two nut cases write a paper and suddenly it's a moral decline across the board? Who are the "many" people who supposedly support this? Five people? A hundred? I doubt it.

WE have not declined to the point of killing infants or old people. Just because a couple of people write a stupid paper does not mean it will be embraced, accepted, acted upon or anything else.

More fuel for the fire of distraction from real issues. This is no accident - it's a deliberate effort to keep people discussing NON-ISSUES so we have neither the time nor energy to see the REAL horrors taking place around us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Maybe you have an inner need, to be victimized. :XD:


Knitter from Nebraska
Is there even ONE positive hour in your Life?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Two nut cases write a paper and suddenly it's a moral decline across the board? Who are the "many" people who supposedly support this? Five people? A hundred? I doubt it.
> 
> WE have not declined to the point of killing infants or old people. Just because a couple of people write a stupid paper does not mean it will be embraced, accepted, acted upon or anything else.
> 
> More fuel for the fire of distraction from real issues. This is no accident - it's a deliberate effort to keep people discussing NON-ISSUES so we have neither the time nor energy to see the REAL horrors taking place around us.


DGreen
Thank you. Well said.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I've never, ever said I like abortion and I have never said a fetus (much different from an embryo) was not human. It's a fine line and I'm not going to say you are wrong. You are correct - we disagree.
> 
> Nebs, we all love babies. It's a difficult question and it comes with deep emotion on all sides.


Mine was a statement of my belief. It was not intended as criticism of anyone. I try not to bring up the subject of abortion, because it's such a hot button issue. But neither can I let it pass. I feel that I MUST speak out, when the issue comes up. I would have let it pass with just my reference to the Hobby Lobby issue, but you pressed me to answer, whether I thought it was more important than our democracy. I gave you a truthful answer. That's all I can do.

Let me be clear, I have never thought or said, that any women on this thread "liked" abortion.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Two nut cases write a paper and suddenly it's a moral decline across the board? Who are the "many" people who supposedly support this? Five people? A hundred? I doubt it.
> 
> WE have not declined to the point of killing infants or old people. Just because a couple of people write a stupid paper does not mean it will be embraced, accepted, acted upon or anything else.
> 
> More fuel for the fire of distraction from real issues. This is no accident - it's a deliberate effort to keep people discussing NON-ISSUES so we have neither the time nor energy to see the REAL horrors taking place around us.


I did not make ANY effort to distract people from the real issues! I very subtly, referenced why I didn't think that I could support "Move to Amend". I left it at that. You asked me a direct question and I answered. When SQM pushed for more, I gave more. I have stayed on topic and responded to nearly every post. You're just as responsible for asking the question! You probably knew how I would respond. So, if you didn't want to hear the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Is there even ONE positive hour in your Life?


You couldn't tell that I was joking?!? Did you take note of the smiley?

How quickly things can turn. Oh, well! Have at it!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Part of the solution probably has to include breaching the "Blue Wall of Silence". Being a whistle blower is thankless and dangerous in most cases, but for a police officer it is many times worse. It would take a drastic and dramatic change of culture for the good cops, who I believe are the majority, to stop protecting the really bad guys who hide behind a shield.
> 
> I am sure most choosing law enforcement as a career started with an idealism to "protect and serve" the well being of the public. Maybe those for whom it is a family tradition entered the job with a more jaded attitude. The dangers and pressures of the work also tend to make each officer dependent on his/her colleagues, so nobody wants to antagonize other cops who, after all, walk around with loaded guns.
> 
> Definitely a dilemma that will have to addressed if trust in police protection is to be restored. We need a strong police presence, but by no means a police state.


I agree with you that the wall of silence needs to be done away with. At the same time the police have to know that the public isn't going to come after them for every incident and judgement call they make. Trust is a two way street which at this point has to be relearned by both sides. It is sure to be a long process, but a necessary one.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that the police do a good job "in most cases". But I think it's very important that we do not tolerate this behavior from our police officers. One of these children could have been killed, just for being stupid. I think that in this particular case, the officer was not being threatened by any type of weapon, so he had a few more seconds to choose good judgement. I absolutely agree with you, that there should be no " cookie cutter response". That's what bothers me most. The officer was trained to see these children as the enemy. He was trained to drop, roll, and pull out his gun. And that's what he did. I find it scary! I would hate to think that someday, this could happen to my grandchildren! The situation did not warrant the response.
> 
> You're right, that people should listen and do as they're told. But these were teenagers. Rarely have teenagers been known for good judgement. And frankly? If the teens had run away, so what? It's not like they'd committed some huge crime. They just wanted them to leave in the first place.


I think he followed his training because he found himself surrounded, especially after the 2 boys came up behind him. It was after that that other officers came into view in the video. I'm glad it didn't turn into a tragedy .


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I was thinking of all the kids who start college and drop out. Or those who go to party. It seems to me a big waste of resources. I think that people shouldn't go to college unless they're dedicated to it. I'd also worry, that college might end up being denied to those who didn't get the best grades in high school. I think that if it costs you something, you're more likely to do something with it. That said, college tuitions have gotten out of control. We need to ask why tuitions have risen so much faster than inflation. Where's the money going? Public universities were supposed to be affordable. They aren't anymore. It used to be that a student could work and pay their way through college. That would be impossible now, even with higher wages. Now, you have to work half your life, to pay for it. What's happened?
> 
> I am not speaking of people who cant work here. I think that every society should care for those who cant work. I think that there are a lot of people who want to work, and can't find a job. But I also think that there are a lot of people who don't want to work. I don't think that those who work, should be forced to support those who won't. I'd also like your opinion on how a government can guarantee everyone a job. And If they can, how long would it be til you were assigned a job? If the government is going to be handing out all this money, somebody has to work to pay for it.
> 
> And never forget...socialism doesn't care about what's good for individuals. It's always about what's good for the many. We've gotten used to having choices.


If the gov't is going to guarantee everyone a job, it stands to reason that they would have to control who went on to higher education or trade schools and who did not. This would require testing of young students to see where their abilities stand and put them on the "correct" educational path. This is too much government control in my book.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, Marilyn. I too, think it would make for an informative and enlightening dialog. I truly do not understand why anyone would want to convert to socialism. I thought that maybe the definition of "socialism" had changed, like so many other word definitions. But I looked it up. It hasn't changed. I truly cannot understand why anyone would favor the government taking ownership of the companies, thus making us all dependent upon the state (government). Am I missing something here?
> 
> It seems to me that we'd be better off fixing the system we have. We need to do away with laws and regulations that give an unfair advantage to the 1%, but if a government is corrupt carrying out capitalism, why wouldn't they be corrupt, carrying out socialism? Why would socialism be better?


I don't understand it either. Other socialist countries have the same 1% & 99% division as we do. I don't see the government control of companies as a good thing. I do see the government sucking all the profits from the companies instead of taxing them. It defeats personal success and creates success through fear - success for the government.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Keep in mind that most of the remaining auto makers aren't manufacturing their own parts. Those are imported from somewhere else. And a huge part of our food is shipped to China, to be processed, and then shipped back to us. If the TPP passes, our food will be sold elsewhere and we'll be buying our food directly from China. We'll be the ones who's people are dying from whatever they put into the food. Think of melamine in the milk. No one will be allowed to even ask, what they're putting in the food.
> 
> You spoke of New York not taxing new businesses. Have you heard of "tax increment financing"? They're using that here, and all over. When a corporation goes into an existing area and redevelops, they can get tax increment financing to find that development. What they do is declare the area " blighted" a make a deal with the developer. The developer will receive all of the tax revenue generated within that area, for 20-25 years. Here in Omaha, we had a shopping mall that was becoming outdated. Gang members started hanging out there. The city made a deal in which they declared the mall and surrounding area, blighted. There were homes in this area that were valued at over a Million dollars, which is a LOT for Omaha. The people who owned the homes didn't want them to be declared blighted, but too bad. The developer gets the tax revenues. That money should be going to the city, so everyone in the city is forced to make up for the loss in revenue that goes directly to a corporation.


China is buying a lot of milk from Australia and is looking at increasing the amount of milk they buy from us. This would give a huge boost to our dairy industry. The worrying trend here is not that China is buying food from Australia but the fact that China is also buying our land. That way they will be able to grow the food and send it back home to China, it would be cheaper than importing it from Australia through Australian companies. When the problems with additives being added to infant formula were made known many Chinese were visiting Australia as tourists and buying infant formula and taking it home to China. People from China were really buying infant formula in very large amounts. They knew if was safe. Australian infant formula was hard to get in China as stocks were sold out immediately they went on the shelves, hence the tourists taking the formula home in their luggage.

China is also investing heavily in our minding, especially iron ore and coal mining. That way they will control the supply of these commodities and keep the prices low to suit themselves. China is a major importer of our coal and iron ore.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It seems to me that every country in the world, is just an extension of every other. It amazes me how similar we all are and how far back it goes. I know that everything is global now, but I wasn't sure if it has been since the 60s. That's why I didn't know if you had Charlie Brown. I know we never had anything from Australia. Interesting.


I get Go Comics and read Ginger Meggs every day. I think some of my other favorites are from outside the US as well. I think Cheap Thrills Cuisine for sure, as measurements are metric.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm wondering why they would pay them. Why didn't they just refuse them entry into the country, give them food and water, and send them on their way?
> 
> I know that, that sounds cruel, but you've already indicated that your government can no longer provide the level of service to its own citizens. Allowing anyone (who can make it there by boat) to stay, is just going to increase that burden. Governments need to made realistic decisions. Can a country support more people, or not? Resources are finite. It's their job to protect their own people, before any other.


They are not paying the refugees, they are paying the people smugglers who are bringing the refugees to Australia.

The present Federal Government made a pre election promise to stop the boats before they reach Australian waters and they say they have. But they still do not understand why people are being forced to seek refuge in another country, why they are being forced to flee their own country. Many many people have drowned attempting this dangerous sea crossing to Australia. In fact you could say several thousand people have drowned. You may not remember the disastrous incident when so many people were drowned when a refugee boat smashed into the rocks off Christmas Island. Christmas Island is where one of our off shore detention centres is located.

Give them food and water and send them on their way? To where? Antarctica? There is nothing south of Australia except Antarctica and we are a very long way from Africa or South America. So to where would we send them? The boats they come in are very flimsy and many of them have engines that break down at sea. It would not be safe to send them on their way, that is why the Navy patrol vessels are pushing them back towards Indonesia as soon as they leave Indonesian territorial waters. But paying people smugglers to take them back to Indonesia is immoral, you do not pay people smugglers you send them to gaol. The Government is not paying the refugees it is paying the people smugglers. Perhaps you are not familiar with the term people smugglers and what they do.

Australia's population will increase, but water is the main problem. As for not accepting refugees, well we have an obligation under the United Nations Treaty on Refugees to accept genuine refugees. The problem is that the Government is classifying many as not being genuine refugees and they are doing this in a very underhand way that is not open to scrutiny. It is the same with the paying the people smugglers, they refuse to answer questions either in or out of Parliament regarding what they are doing, and if fact they will not admit that they are paying people smugglers. They are also not denying that they are paying people smugglers. They say they will not answer questions regarding operations being carried out under Operation Sovereign Borders. Talking about keeping us in the dark and governing in secret.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I've come around to your position on a constitutional convention.
> 
> That leaves congress to pass an amendment. So far, they have demonstrated no willingness whatever to do this. However, pressure is mounting and we are hearing more and more conversation on the subject. We have to keep up the pressure and demand this by VOTING for those who support such a change. I truly believe citizens can make it happen but it will take sustained passion and effort.
> 
> MovetoAmend.org has adopted the tactic of having businesses, local governments, etc., pass resolutions calling for a constitutional amendment. Their effort is gaining supporters. There are other organizations attacking the problem in various ways, but too many call for reinstating restrictions on amounts of contributions only. The flow of corporate money to politicians must be shut off completely, as well as the flow of money from wealthy individuals.


It's not just the flow of money that needs to be stopped, it's also the favors that accompany the money.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> My son was in an Apple store on Sunday looking to find out why his charger wouldn't work and the lady who served him was so impressed she asked him if he would mind coming in for an interview! Gave him her contact details and asked him to send his CV and reasons why he should be hired by Apple. She said he is very personable, beautifully spoken and
> the kind of person they're looking for. The poor kid came home completely confused and said "am I really all of those things mum?" I had to laugh and told him yes. Anyway, he's sent off all his info and we'll see.
> 
> Oh, the lady found the problem and his phone is fine.


My grandson started working for Apple here in Perth a few weeks ago and loves working there. He was doing so well at school, was a PEAC student but bombed out dreadfully in the last two years. He took easier options in year 12 and did not aim for uni entrance. I have my suspicions as to the cause but will not say what they are, especially on an open forum. No, not drugs. He became extremely depressed. But he loves the job at Apple. He had been working at Dick Smiths on an on call, casual basis before he landed the job.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> What's going on now in parliament is truly embarrassing. I can't help wondering how other countries are viewing us at the moment although Indonesia is making her stance very clear. Regardless of whether certain officers have immunity to prosecution over this, the Australian government are not only breaking the law, they are demonstrating a blatant disregard for human life knowing damn well how dangerous the conditions are for the refugees and that in itself is a human rights violation.
> 
> It's all fine and good to "stop the boats" but I think Abbott has just lost the next federal election. Bill Shorten is being a bit shifty about allegations that the previous Labor government paid off 'people smugglers' also.
> 
> ...


I also agree with the new proposals to revoke part pensions to the wealthy. I watched the news and people said "we worked hard all our life and paid taxes, the pension is our entitlement". No, the pension is not an entitlement it is there to aid and assist the poor, the people who were not in a position to lay aside or amass vast sums of money. I see that they are excluding the private homes from their asset tests and I agree with this. There were plans put forward to take the value of the private home into consideration along with other assets but this overlooked the fact that many pensioners are now living in houses worth well over $1 million and they have been living there for many years. The houses were not worth anywhere near that amount when they moved in but have increased in value naturally over the years. I only paid $77,000 for this house in 1991 and it is now worth over $450,000. Old age pensioners should not be forced to sell their houses and move into cheaper houses, that could be more than devastating for them. But accrued wealth over $850,000 over and above the private home is another matter.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> But I know what an embryo IS! And no one change change THAT definition! Are you aware of where all of this is heading? There are many people now, who support "after birth abortion". They say that up to the age of two, we should be allowed to kill children, because they're not really "people" yet. These aren't just nutcases. These are University professors and people who sit on ethics boards.
> 
> We've have declined to the point where we're not just talking about killing our babies before they're born, but after! As a country, we have no respect for human life! We have become such a self centered population, that we're willing to kill the weakest among us. And it won't stop there! Soon, they'll be coming after the sick and elderly! A decline won't stop until people take action, to stop it.


I have not heard of 'after birth abortion' or killing children under the age of two years. I hold very different opinions on abortion to you, I also know that banning legal abortions will not stop women seeking abortions. It will only drive them back to the back alley abortionists and this will result in many women losing their life, and mean that many children will lose their mother as a result. Women have sought abortions from the dawn of time and there is plenty of documented evidence to support my statement. But I do not want to enter into a discussion with you on this subject as I know it will not lead anywhere. We each have our own views.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I did not make ANY effort to distract people from the real issues! I very subtly, referenced why I didn't think that I could support "Move to Amend". I left it at that. You asked me a direct question and I answered. When SQM pushed for more, I gave more. I have stayed on topic and responded to nearly every post. You're just as responsible for asking the question! You probably knew how I would respond. So, if you didn't want to hear the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question!


It is not you who is distracting people from the real issues, Nebs. I truly believe there is a deliberate effort coming from those who want to inflame the religious right to publish and encourage discussions that are divisive.

Seems to be working. I don't want to go there and I know you don't, either. Let's concentrate on the things we CAN do to fight the insidious problem of corruption. I'm open to ideas that we can agree on.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know what a "donkey vote" is, but I'd take it!


Voting in Australia is compulsory, in the USA it is not. We also have preferential voting whereas you have the 'first past the post' system. A donkey vote is just numbering the candidates down the page, as they appear, and not paying any attention to the party they represent or voting for any particular party. It can also mean voting informally, which is either intentionally messing up the voting slips and putting them in the ballot box or not marking the voting slip at all. In Australia you must attend the polling booth and have your name crossed off the electoral roll to show you turned up to vote but how you vote, whether formally or informally, is left up to the individual voter. You can be fined if you do not turn up to vote, as I said voting here is compulsory.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The Hobby Lobby ruling has been thrashed and beaten to death on this thread.
> 
> My only comment is that Hobby Lobby wants the benefits of incorporation but not the downside (to them) of not being able to claim they have religious beliefs. Of course, as it is, they have it both ways. Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE and we all know that. Let them revert to a proprietorship and they can do as they damn well please.
> 
> I would ask again, is the abortion issue so important that it's worth risking our democracy, particularly when laws against it don't stop it from happening?


I think that starts with government intrusion into our personal lives. Of course there need to be laws to protect children from sexual exploitation and other forms of assault, and other common sense laws protecting people from coming to harm at the hands of others whether the damage is of a sexual or non sexual nature.

But I do not think it is the place of the government to regulate the consensual couplings of legal adults. Nor should there be government intervention in elective medical treatments that happen to involve the reproductive organs of adult women or of younger women who are in a crisis situation, physical or emotional. Abortion is a medical procedure that is not acceptable to many people but is acceptable to many others. Women are entitled to have such a procedure performed in a safe operating theater as much as they are entitled to have other elective procedures performed under safe medical conditions without the government having a say. Health insurance should be applicable. Which brings us to the issue of universal health coverage, single payer system.

People whose religious or other sensibilities lead them to an anti abortion stand certainly have their right to their opinion and the right to refuse abortion even if their lives are in danger because of issues in a pregnancy. They do not have the right to dictate to people who turn to abortion for reasons that are valid to them that they cannot have a legal safe procedure. I personally do not at all like the idea of using abortion as birth control. This brings us to the issue of sex education for our young people.

People who understand the workings of the human body and the ramifications of sexual relationships are probably less likely to start an unwanted pregnancy. Contraception information should be available to those who want it, sort of an elective course. People who are uncomfortable when the topic of sex arises surely would have the opportunity to not have the education or the contraceptive care.

Then we come to the issue of who will support, house, clothe, and feed babies born to those who do not choose contraception or abortion but do engage in sexual relationships. Of course I personally do not think people should have babies unless they are prepared to do their best to provide a safe home for them or to have them adopted into a welcoming home. Babies do not ask to be born and deserve the good start in life of being welcomed and nurtured.

There are complexities here, and sure to be disagreements. But I really do not want the government's nose stuck in my private parts.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! I wish that we had a newsletter that presented the facts. I'd just like to know where they stand on the issues. I'd also like to have a spot on the ballot, to vote for "none of the above". Then they'd be required to hold another vote, with a new slate of candidates. I HATE having to vote for the lesser of two evils, especially when it's hard to decide who is the lesser!


Had you read some weeks back about a straw poll of the numerous Republican party potential candidates as well as the declared ones for President? The highest vote getter was "Undecided".


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> My son was in an Apple store on Sunday looking to find out why his charger wouldn't work and the lady who served him was so impressed she asked him if he would mind coming in for an interview! Gave him her contact details and asked him to send his CV and reasons why he should be hired by Apple. She said he is very personable, beautifully spoken and
> the kind of person they're looking for. The poor kid came home completely confused and said "am I really all of those things mum?" I had to laugh and told him yes. Anyway, he's sent off all his info and we'll see.
> 
> Oh, the lady found the problem and his phone is fine.


That is wonderful that he received an unsolicited affirmation of his worthiness. I hope it pans out with a pleasant job for him.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think that starts with government intrusion into our personal lives. Of course there need to be laws to protect children from sexual exploitation and other forms of assault, and other common sense laws protecting people from coming to harm at the hands of others whether the damage is of a sexual or non sexual nature.
> 
> But I do not think it is the place of the government to regulate the consensual couplings of legal adults. Nor should there be government intervention in elective medical treatments that happen to involve the reproductive organs of adult women or of younger women who are in a crisis situation, physical or emotional. Abortion is a medical procedure that is not acceptable to many people but is acceptable to many others. Women are entitled to have such a procedure performed in a safe operating theater as much as they are entitled to have other elective procedures performed under safe medical conditions without the government having a say. Health insurance should be applicable. Which brings us to the issue of universal health coverage, single payer system.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> If the gov't is going to guarantee everyone a job, it stands to reason that they would have to control who went on to higher education or trade schools and who did not. This would require testing of young students to see where their abilities stand and put them on the "correct" educational path. This is too much government control in my book.


Not necessarily true.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think there's a world wide agenda for the corporations to end up owning everything. It's happening everywhere.
> 
> Here in Omaha, we still have publicly owned utilities. Our gas, water, sewers and electricity are all delivered fairly inexpensively. Our electric company produces way more than we use, so the excess is sold and that lowers our costs. I recognize how fortunate we've been, but a few weeks ago I heard on the news, that someone from our water company was talking about privatizing. That would be the worst thing ever! In the past, I'd have been at the public meetings speaking out and I'd have been writing letters to anyone and everyone. However, with the addition of quads to our family, I'm not going to have much time for activism. I think I'll have to rely upon telling as many people as I can, and hope that they'll take action.
> 
> ...


You write eloquently and express your opinions very well here. Although you would not have time to attend meetings, you could write petitions and letters to editors. Perhaps even start your own op-ed blog? Local print and on line newspapers provide opportunities in my area for private individuals to write on line blogs on various issues. And you could do it from your home, from your computer, within your time frame.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Not necessarily true.


Perhaps, but you can't, no shouldn't, put people into a job that they have no aptitude for.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Perhaps, but you can't, no shouldn't, put people into a job that they have no aptitude for.


Of course, you are right.

I truly don't think anyone is suggesting that the government form some massive new agency that will "place" every citizen in a job chosen by some government worker, or that our students be channeled into any rigid educational path by force.

I think the idea is that government should always work to provide opportunities for all who need or want a job. Not make-work projects, but real opportunities resulting from a healthy economy and a robust educational system.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You write eloquently and express your opinions very well here. Although you would not have time to attend meetings, you could write petitions and letters to editors. Perhaps even start your own op-ed blog? Local print and on line newspapers provide opportunities in my area for private individuals to write on line blogs on various issues. And you could do it from your home, from your computer, within your time frame.


I agree with Marilyn. I think you have very strong feelings and have a lot of information that is important to you, - even though we don't agree with a lot of your opinions. Which is perfectly okay. I think you could very well find others who agree with you. Is there anyway you could stay here, but still start a blog and find people who are like minded? What about starting a section, or a facebook page or an actual blog or use Marilyn's ideas. I think you have a lot to offer. In my mind, I agree with Marilyn completely. Conversation is important. We here are on much the same page with each other, but certainly not always. It would be very interesting to follow a blog that you start, with people who would be interested in discussing your ideas.

Give it some thought. I don't think you should leave here, but it would be a sounding board for discussions like this one with like minded people.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If the gov't is going to guarantee everyone a job, it stands to reason that they would have to control who went on to higher education or trade schools and who did not. This would require testing of young students to see where their abilities stand and put them on the "correct" educational path. This is too much government control in my book.


That reminds me of secondary school where at year 9, everyone was interviewed by a vocational guidance officer from the dept of education. I wasn't asked anything about what my educational aspirations were, I was told that I should take the 'commercial course' (typing, shorthand etc.), for years 10 & 11, leave school, get a job and work until I got married! :shock:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> China is buying a lot of milk from Australia and is looking at increasing the amount of milk they buy from us. This would give a huge boost to our dairy industry. The worrying trend here is not that China is buying food from Australia but the fact that China is also buying our land. That way they will be able to grow the food and send it back home to China, it would be cheaper than importing it from Australia through Australian companies. When the problems with additives being added to infant formula were made known many Chinese were visiting Australia as tourists and buying infant formula and taking it home to China. People from China were really buying infant formula in very large amounts. They knew if was safe. Australian infant formula was hard to get in China as stocks were sold out immediately they went on the shelves, hence the tourists taking the formula home in their luggage.
> 
> China is also investing heavily in our minding, especially iron ore and coal mining. That way they will control the supply of these commodities and keep the prices low to suit themselves. China is a major importer of our coal and iron ore.


I think the government were about 20 years too late turning their attention to foreign investment in real estate and changing laws etc., I think we'd all gasp if we new how much land was really in China's hands vis a vis domestic and commercial real estate.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> My grandson started working for Apple here in Perth a few weeks ago and loves working there. He was doing so well at school, was a PEAC student but bombed out dreadfully in the last two years. He took easier options in year 12 and did not aim for uni entrance. I have my suspicions as to the cause but will not say what they are, especially on an open forum. No, not drugs. He became extremely depressed. But he loves the job at Apple. He had been working at Dick Smiths on an on call, casual basis before he landed the job.


That's so encouraging. I'm glad your grandson likes it at Apple. I know it's a huge corporation with dubious taxation practices but I've heard it treats it's staff quite well. Let me know how he's getting along from time to time Eve.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have not heard of 'after birth abortion' or killing children under the age of two years. I hold very different opinions on abortion to you, I also know that banning legal abortions will not stop women seeking abortions. It will only drive them back to the back alley abortionists and this will result in many women losing their life, and mean that many children will lose their mother as a result. Women have sought abortions from the dawn of time and there is plenty of documented evidence to support my statement. But I do not want to enter into a discussion with you on this subject as I know it will not lead anywhere. We each have our own views.


It's been practiced in China for years since the introduction of the one-child-per-family policy. They usually target baby girls.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> That is wonderful that he received an unsolicited affirmation of his worthiness. I hope it pans out with a pleasant job for him.


Thanks Marilyn. I'll keep all posted. I'm excited for him and I'm delighted he received such positive feedback! He's a bit bewildered but very proud! :-D


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That reminds me of secondary school where at year 9, everyone was interviewed by a vocational guidance officer from the dept of education. I wasn't asked anything about what my educational aspirations were, I was told that should take the 'commercial course' (typing, shorthand etc.), for years 10 & 11, leave school, get a job and work until I got married! :shock:


One would hope that practice has been abandoned.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

KFN These are your words and they reflect a socialist view of cooperative ownership of production. Looks like you do understand socialism at least a bit. 

IMO, services that are necessary to life and quality of life, should be owned by local governments, or in other words, be owned by the people.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> One would hope that practice has been abandoned.


Indeed Green! Girls weren't encouraged to consider university and most of us at that school were from working class families with parents who all left school at ages 12 - 14 years because their families needed the income. Therefore, our parents weren't versed at all about the potential for tertiary education. It wasn't until I was working in the big city that I discovered the potential for a tertiary education and I learned about it from advertisements in trams!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> That reminds me of secondary school where at year 9, everyone was interviewed by a vocational guidance officer from the dept of education. I wasn't asked anything about what my educational aspirations were, I was told that I should take the 'commercial course' (typing, shorthand etc.), for years 10 & 11, leave school, get a job and work until I got married! :shock:


I asked my Father to help me go to Ryerson Art college in Ontario, and he answered that he

""would pay for my 
business course (typing and shorthand) which was much more important than a silly art course, in case I didn't find a man who would marry me!"" Even then I found that was 
offensive!

Left home immediately after and put myself through business college as University was just too expensive and I wanted an art degree nothing else. I never did get one, which for me was good as I am really stubborn and I decided to do my own thing which I did for 6l years and still am.
I didn't make much money as I didn't want to go into business and make what other people ordered. I wanted to do my own thing and never have regretted it. I did pay the cost of my supplies and did have a couple of things which Pat and I did together and sold. The rest I donated to Charity to raise funds, or gave my 'stuff' away.

As an aside, I did use my typing and shorthand for many things and did work on and off between raising my family..


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I read the responses and most didn't know the facts of the case or didn't think they were important enough to matter. They just went for the race card from the outset.
> 
> I don't really care whether or not you want to hear from someone. As your group constantly points out, this is an open forum and anyone, whether they are liked or not, can post to any thread as long as they are current members in good standing according the the R&R's of KP.
> 
> Re the GDP - of course you don't have to take my word for it. The figures are calculated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis, (BEA), which is part of the Dept. of Commerce. They are the ones that put it all together and show whether the economy is doing well or not. Makes no difference to me what you think.


Please, do yourself a favor and look up the definition of the GDP so you look like less of a fool. *It has nothing to do with what I think.* By definition, the GDP can't be 2% or 5% or even 123%. It's not a percentage at all. I doubt that the BEA said the GDP was 2%; it's more likely that you didn't understand what it did say.

But it's okay to ignore what I say. It just shows how ignorant you choose to be.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, Marilyn. I too, think it would make for an informative and enlightening dialog. I truly do not understand why anyone would want to convert to socialism. I thought that maybe the definition of "socialism" had changed, like so many other word definitions. But I looked it up. It hasn't changed. I truly cannot understand why anyone would favor the government taking ownership of the companies, thus making us all dependent upon the state (government). Am I missing something here?
> 
> It seems to me that we'd be better off fixing the system we have. We need to do away with laws and regulations that give an unfair advantage to the 1%, but if a government is corrupt carrying out capitalism, why wouldn't they be corrupt, carrying out socialism? Why would socialism be better?


I need to make one correction: Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist, not a socialist per se. There are parties in several European countries that call themselves Democratic Socialist. This is not the same as the Marxism you seem to have confused it with.

(I have another correction: the USSR was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.)


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Indeed Green! Girls weren't encouraged to consider university and most of us at that school were from working class families with parents who all left school at ages 12 - 14 years because their families needed the income. Therefore, our parents weren't versed at all about the potential for tertiary education. It wasn't until I was working in the big city that I discovered the potential for a tertiary education and I learned about it from advertisements in trams!


I knew about university and had a very real opportunity to attend Stanford because my father worked there (a technical field) and I could have gone there on a tuition waiver. I certainly had the academic ability and straight "A" grades. But my family came from the farms of Oklahoma and the thought of a college education was completely foreign to them. I was never encouraged to even think about college so I got married at 16, finished high school as a married woman and went straight to work to put hubby through school. (Which he milked to the hilt and never did graduate.)

I always had to work to help support the family. Furthering my own education was not in my future, except for classes here and there and a few semesters full-time.

Looking back, I'm glad I learned typing and bookkeeping. I might otherwise have ended up waiting tables or working in a factory.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I knew about university and had a very real opportunity to attend Stanford because my father worked there (a technical field) and I could have gone there on a tuition waiver. I certainly had the academic ability and straight "A" grades. But my family came from the farms of Oklahoma and the thought of a college education was completely foreign to them. I was never encouraged to even think about college so I got married at 16, finished high school as a married woman and went straight to work to put hubby through school. (Which he milked to the hilt and never did graduate.)
> 
> I always had to work to help support the family. Furthering my own education was not in my future, except for classes here and there and a few semesters full-time.
> 
> Looking back, I'm glad I learned typing and bookkeeping. I might otherwise have ended up waiting tables or working in a factory.


When I think of some of the lame brains who were in college with me, and that a girl with a mind as keen as yours didn't have the opportunity to further your options is maddening to me.

Knowing you and following your reasoning on issues has been a learning experience for me and I thank you. I hope the people surrounding you in your real life appreciate you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I knew about university and had a very real opportunity to attend Stanford because my father worked there (a technical field) and I could have gone there on a tuition waiver. I certainly had the academic ability and straight "A" grades. But my family came from the farms of Oklahoma and the thought of a college education was completely foreign to them. I was never encouraged to even think about college so I got married at 16, finished high school as a married woman and went straight to work to put hubby through school. (Which he milked to the hilt and never did graduate.)
> 
> I always had to work to help support the family. Furthering my own education was not in my future, except for classes here and there and a few semesters full-time.
> 
> Looking back, I'm glad I learned typing and bookkeeping. I might otherwise have ended up waiting tables or working in a factory.


DGreen
it is obvious that you have a brilliant mind and I am so happy to have made your acquaintance. Your intelligence comes through strongly. Unfortunately many Women of our time were dealt no choices. Glad times have changed and most barriers have been removed.
My Parents pushed education to the ultimate and we are forever thankful for it. Formal education does not further intelligence, it just makes problem solving a little easier. I have the feeling that there is nothing you can't do.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> When I think of some of the lame brains who were in college with me, and that a girl with a mind as keen as yours didn't have the opportunity to further your options is maddening to me.
> 
> Knowing you and following your reasoning on issues has been a learning experience for me and I thank you. I hope the people surrounding you in your real life appreciate you.


You are very kind, Marilyn. I feel the same about the rest of the ladies here. And yes, I think I'm appreciated.

I sometimes think the education I got in the world of hard knocks was every bit as good as what students receive in college today. At one time I supplemented my income by typing for students and corrected MANY errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation for graduate students, all the time shaking my head and rolling my eyes. I don't know that I'm all that smart, but I do try to pay attention.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You are very kind, Marilyn. I feel the same about the rest of the ladies here. And yes, I think I'm appreciated.
> 
> I sometimes think the education I got in the world of hard knocks was every bit as good as what students receive in college today. At one time I supplemented my income by typing for students and corrected MANY errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation for graduate students, all the time shaking my head and rolling my eyes. I don't know that I'm all that smart, but I do try to pay attention.


I agree, it stood me in good stead many times. It still is, with my computer time.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> it is obvious that you have a brilliant mind and I am so happy to have made your acquaintance. Your intelligence comes through strongly. Unfortunately many Women of our time were dealt no choices. Glad times have changed and most barriers have been removed.
> My Parents pushed education to the ultimate and we are forever thankful for it. Formal education does not further intelligence, it just makes problem solving a little easier. I have the feeling that there is nothing you can't do.


I wish there was nothing I couldn't do! I often joke that I know I have a variety of abilities so I'm "a mile wide and an inch deep." Competent but not terribly expert in anything with the possible exceptions of calculating payroll and baking bread.

I agree that barriers have come down. My daughter is a Registered Nurse and my grandchildren truly take it for granted that they will graduate from college. (Grandson graduating from ASU this year and granddaughter headed for Columbia in fall of 2016). It's all in the expectations.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> That reminds me of secondary school where at year 9, everyone was interviewed by a vocational guidance officer from the dept of education. I wasn't asked anything about what my educational aspirations were, I was told that I should take the 'commercial course' (typing, shorthand etc.), for years 10 & 11, leave school, get a job and work until I got married! :shock:


You were lucky that your school offered alternative courses and that you were interviewed by a vocational guidance officer. When I was in year 10 there were no such people as vocational officers. The school I attended only offered one stream, the commercial stream. Everyone had to take shorthand typewriting and bookkeeping in year 8 but only the brighter students were allowed to continue with shorthand in years 9 and 10. Yes, I was one of the 'lucky' ones who was allowed to continue with shorthand in years 9 and 10. I hated shorthand and did not want to do the commercial studies but there two other options. One was to leave the convent and attend the state school. In 1954 this was an unthinkable option for Catholics, it was something akin to a mortal sin. The other option was to travel to Perth and attend one of the two convent schools there. The green school and the brown school we called them because of the colour of the uniforms. Brown school was St Josephs and the fees were lower than the green school, Mercedes College, but the fees charged by both schools were considerably higher than St Brigids in Midland. These fees would have been impossible for my mother to pay, especially as my two younger brothers were attending De La Salle. I would also have had to travel to Perth on the train and that was an additional cost. I could ride my push bike to Midland. So I was stuck in the commercial studies I did not like, I hated shorthand. St Brigids only went to year 10 but many high school were not senior high schools, very few school went to year 12. So, I had to leave school at the end of year 10 and get a job in an office. But in those days it was more important that boys received the education because 'girls would only work until they are married and then they would be supported by their husbands'. What a load of old crock. So many of us continued to work after we were married, even after we had children. Remember there were no child minding centres back then in the 1960s. Sorry girls they did not have 'child mining' centres either so we could not send the ankle biters down the mines to toil at the coal face. They did not have work experience either. We left school and had to find our own jobs, fortunately there were jobs back then. Remember the large typing pools of those days, the pre word processor and computer days. So I was only expected to work until I got married and my husband would support me. Well something went wrong because I continued to work until I was 71 and with my second marriage I was the principal bread winner for many years. During my first marriage I earned a higher salary than my husband. What happened to this life of idle luxury as a married and kept woman was supposed to bring?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska wrote:
Would these coops be owned and controlled by the government, or by the people?

I agree, it's an interesting conversation. However, I'm still not very clear on what others see, as socialism. I'd like to hear more about that.



peacegoddess said:


> Then read the Socialist web page and educate yourself on cooperatives.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Indeed Green! Girls weren't encouraged to consider university and most of us at that school were from working class families with parents who all left school at ages 12 - 14 years because their families needed the income. Therefore, our parents weren't versed at all about the potential for tertiary education. It wasn't until I was working in the big city that I discovered the potential for a tertiary education and I learned about it from advertisements in trams!


You are right, parents needed the income from their children. Could you imagine today's teenagers handing over their unopened pay packets to their mothers and she would give them a pittance as 'pocket money'? But so many did that, right up until the day they were married, girls especially did that. The mother made all the decisions, even chose the clothes wore in many instances. And working class children attending university?????? The universities were for children of the rich, the elite. A doctor's son would become a doctor, a lawyer's son would become a lawyer. Good heavens could you imagine the son of a coal miner becoming a doctor and performing operations????? Or the son of a bus driver becoming a lawyer and offering his clients complex legal advice?????? Unthinkable. And girls, go on to University? No way, it was believed that girls just did not posses the brains to handle university studies. I had to go to work so my mother could continue to pay for my two younger brothers education. Neither of them went on to year 12, in fact neither of them sat the Junior Exam at the end of year 10. I think you called it the Intermediate Certificate over in the east. I sat the exam and passed 8 subjects. You could only sit for 8 subjects then, plus two extra subjects - the art of speech or elocution and music. I still think I was robbed. Lazy little blighters just refused to knuckle down and study, OK I think that the elder of the two was also as thick as too short planks and my two older sisters agree with me in that regard. But we proved them wrong, did we not. We went on to brighter and better fields and we did attend university. I am so glad things changed in the later part of the 1960s.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> You are right, parents needed the income from their children. Could you imagine today's teenagers handing over their unopened pay packets to their mothers and she would give them a pittance as 'pocket money'? But so many did that, right up until the day they were married, girls especially did that. The mother made all the decisions, even chose the clothes wore in many instances. And working class children attending university?????? The universities were for children of the rich, the elite. A doctor's son would become a doctor, a lawyer's son would become a lawyer. Good heavens could you imagine the son of a coal miner becoming a doctor and performing operations????? Or the son of a bus driver becoming a lawyer and offering his clients complex legal advice?????? Unthinkable. And girls, go on to University? No way, it was believed that girls just did not posses the brains to handle university studies. I had to go to work so my mother could continue to pay for my two younger brothers education. Neither of them went on to year 12, in fact neither of them sat the Junior Exam at the end of year 10. I think you called it the Intermediate Certificate over in the east. I sat the exam and passed 8 subjects. You could only sit for 8 subjects then, plus two extra subjects - the art of speech or elocution and music. I still think I was robbed. Lazy little blighters just refused to knuckle down and study, OK I think that the elder of the two was also as thick as too short planks and my two older sisters agree with me in that regard. But we proved them wrong, did we not. We went on to brighter and better fields and we did attend university. I am so glad things changed in the later part of the 1960s.


Oh, Eve, you brought back some funny memories of my mother and I arguing over Easter outfits when I was younger.
She would pick out the most ridiculous hats for me. One was a white derby looking get up with a huge bow on the side. I tried it on and started laughing so hard that she cracked me one right upside the head. I still laughed and asked her if she was serious. She was. I begged to try on a different style, but no go. I tried to fake a sore throat on Easter so I wouldn't have to be seen in that hat, but it didn't work.
My clothes were chosen for me from K thru 12 grades in the form of uniforms.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> You are right, parents needed the income from their children. Could you imagine today's teenagers handing over their unopened pay packets to their mothers and she would give them a pittance as 'pocket money'? But so many did that, right up until the day they were married, girls especially did that. The mother made all the decisions, even chose the clothes wore in many instances. And working class children attending university?????? The universities were for children of the rich, the elite. A doctor's son would become a doctor, a lawyer's son would become a lawyer. Good heavens could you imagine the son of a coal miner becoming a doctor and performing operations????? Or the son of a bus driver becoming a lawyer and offering his clients complex legal advice?????? Unthinkable. And girls, go on to University? No way, it was believed that girls just did not posses the brains to handle university studies. I had to go to work so my mother could continue to pay for my two younger brothers education. Neither of them went on to year 12, in fact neither of them sat the Junior Exam at the end of year 10. I think you called it the Intermediate Certificate over in the east. I sat the exam and passed 8 subjects. You could only sit for 8 subjects then, plus two extra subjects - the art of speech or elocution and music. I still think I was robbed. Lazy little blighters just refused to knuckle down and study, OK I think that the elder of the two was also as thick as too short planks and my two older sisters agree with me in that regard. But we proved them wrong, did we not. We went on to brighter and better fields and we did attend university. I am so glad things changed in the later part of the 1960s.


Whoo! So glad your story had a happy ending and you got the education you deserved. It shows.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I asked my Father to help me go to Ryerson Art college in Ontario, and he answered that he
> 
> ""would pay for my business course (typing and shorthand) which was much more important than a silly art course, in case I didn't find a man who would marry me!"" Even then I found that was
> offensive!
> ...


I think that your father's comments "would pay for my business course (typing and shorthand) which was much more important than a silly art course, in case I didn't find a man who would marry me!" would have been typical for that period. Art, music, the theatre were not real jobs they were just messing around. Teenagers had to get 'real jobs' not mess around with all that arty farty nonsense. And of course you had to find a man who would marry you. Never mind your feelings, just find a decent man with a good job and who would marry you. Never mind if you wanted to marry him. I remember having a boyfriend who was quite a bit older than I was, in fact he was 12 years older than me. He had previously dated my older sister, the one who died. She warned me that if I went out with him I would have great difficulty in getting rid of him, how right she was. But at 18 years of age it was a feather in my cap that I attracted the attention of a mature male, plus he had a car and more money that the teenage boys. Mum thought he was a good catch and his mother was dead scared that I would marry him. She hated Catholics with a vengeance. Yes I did continue to go out with him just to spite his mother. He suggested marriage, my mother could see the possibility of a comfortable life for me. I agree that we should marry, I even suggested a double wedding ceremony. All he had to do was find someone who would marry him and I would find someone I agreed to marry. Now what was wrong with that suggestion? Why did it go over like a lead balloon? Oh, I see, I was expected to marry him? I told him and my mother to get real, it is never going to happen, no way would I ever contemplate marrying him.

But you proved your father wrong, you made a success out of your art work and as far as finding a man who would marry you, well I think you chose your husband and you chose very wisely. You have achieved much as a happy and loving couple. :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> China is buying a lot of milk from Australia and is looking at increasing the amount of milk they buy from us. This would give a huge boost to our dairy industry. The worrying trend here is not that China is buying food from Australia but the fact that China is also buying our land. That way they will be able to grow the food and send it back home to China, it would be cheaper than importing it from Australia through Australian companies. When the problems with additives being added to infant formula were made known many Chinese were visiting Australia as tourists and buying infant formula and taking it home to China. People from China were really buying infant formula in very large amounts. They knew if was safe. Australian infant formula was hard to get in China as stocks were sold out immediately they went on the shelves, hence the tourists taking the formula home in their luggage.
> 
> China is also investing heavily in our minding, especially iron ore and coal mining. That way they will control the supply of these commodities and keep the prices low to suit themselves. China is a major importer of our coal and iron ore.


The same thing is happening here. They've bought our largest pork producer and are buying up land all over. Theyre buying up houses in California's depressed housing market. They're buying a lot of property in Detroit. Some towns are actually giving them land to get them to open businesses. It's pretty bad when you have to give your land to foreigners just to create jobs! I read one time that the Chinese are using their US treasury bonds (the money they've loaned our government) as collateral for loans to buy the property. So, they're not having to actually put out the money.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-03/chinese-are-buying-large-chunks-land-across-america-and-zillow-now-enabling-it


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I asked my Father to help me go to Ryerson Art college in Ontario, and he answered that he
> 
> ""would pay for my
> business course (typing and shorthand) which was much more important than a silly art course, in case I didn't find a man who would marry me!"" Even then I found that was
> ...


Typing for me was a G-d send and I've used it continually since I left school. Your father's attitude was pretty much universal for the better part of the last century. Women really didn't have a 'place' in the world, they really were relegated to the nurturing role and there was no thought given to their own aspirations and abilities beyond the suburban household.

I'm much relieved that things have changed although I do think women have a way to go yet.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Two nut cases write a paper and suddenly it's a moral decline across the board? Who are the "many" people who supposedly support this? Five people? A hundred? I doubt it.
> 
> WE have not declined to the point of killing infants or old people. Just because a couple of people write a stupid paper does not mean it will be embraced, accepted, acted upon or anything else.
> 
> More fuel for the fire of distraction from real issues. This is no accident - it's a deliberate effort to keep people discussing NON-ISSUES so we have neither the time nor energy to see the REAL horrors taking place around us.


Green it seems that some people chose to gravitate to the distractions, one being KFN. KFN you could make some real headway if you started caring for babies like your grandchildren who have been born and need care rather than a bunch of cells or fetuses that can not survive on their own outside the womb. I hope you are just as concerned about semen and the sin on Onanism or don't you hold men to the same standards you expect women to follow? I find it hard to believe that you have ever held a fetus let alone several of them. In my book that is sick and disgusting to do such a thing. If you respect them as you say you do you certainly treat them with the utmost disrespect. Where did you acquire these fetuses? Climbing in a dumpster behind a Planned Parenthood? Your last couple of posts have gone beyond disgusting and if what you believe you are doing is christian I don't want to have anything to do with such awful beliefs. You are the one who the GOP loves to seduce. Wave the red flag of abortion and you are right there at their beck and call. The GOP could give a damn about the unborn all they want is your vote and then they will kick you to the curb. I'm much more concerned with children that are here and are not being cared for and those needing adoption or the elderly. Your priorities are way out of whack. I hope in the next election people that believe as you do are in an extreme minority so real issues and real people can be addressed. :thumbdown:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> You are right, parents needed the income from their children. Could you imagine today's teenagers handing over their unopened pay packets to their mothers and she would give them a pittance as 'pocket money'? But so many did that, right up until the day they were married, girls especially did that. The mother made all the decisions, even chose the clothes wore in many instances. And working class children attending university?????? The universities were for children of the rich, the elite. A doctor's son would become a doctor, a lawyer's son would become a lawyer. Good heavens could you imagine the son of a coal miner becoming a doctor and performing operations????? Or the son of a bus driver becoming a lawyer and offering his clients complex legal advice?????? Unthinkable. And girls, go on to University? No way, it was believed that girls just did not posses the brains to handle university studies. I had to go to work so my mother could continue to pay for my two younger brothers education. Neither of them went on to year 12, in fact neither of them sat the Junior Exam at the end of year 10. I think you called it the Intermediate Certificate over in the east. I sat the exam and passed 8 subjects. You could only sit for 8 subjects then, plus two extra subjects - the art of speech or elocution and music. I still think I was robbed. Lazy little blighters just refused to knuckle down and study, OK I think that the elder of the two was also as thick as too short planks and my two older sisters agree with me in that regard. But we proved them wrong, did we not. We went on to brighter and better fields and we did attend university. I am so glad things changed in the later part of the 1960s.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: "...thick as two short planks..." Love it!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Green it seems that some people chose to gravitate to the distractions, one being KFN. KFN you could make some real headway if you started caring for babies like your grandchildren who have been born and need care rather than a bunch of cells or fetuses that can not survive on their own outside the womb. I hope you are just as concerned about semen and the sin on Onanism or don't you hold men to the same standards you expect women to follow? I find it hard to believe that you have ever held a fetus let alone several of them. In my book that is sick and disgusting to do such a thing. If you respect them as you say you do you certainly treat them with the utmost disrespect. Where did you acquire these fetuses? Climbing in a dumpster behind a Planned Parenthood? Your last couple of posts have gone beyond disgusting and if what you believe you are doing is christian I don't want to have anything to do with such awful beliefs. You are the one who the GOP loves to seduce. Wave the red flag of abortion and you are right there at their beck and call. The GOP could give a damn about the unborn all they want is your vote and then they will kick you to the curb. I'm much more concerned with children that are here and are not being cared for and those needing adoption or the elderly. Your priorities are way out of whack. I hope in the next election people that believe as you do are in an extreme minority so real issues and real people can be addressed. :thumbdown:


For your information, I held my triplet grandbabies. They were born at 22 weeks, 5 days gestation. If an abortionist aborted babies at this point of gestation, they would be called fetuses. You should get your mind out of the gutter! What you suggested, is sick and disgusting! And if you want to talk about caring for unwanted children? I've done that as well! I adopted a drug baby! I never received a dime from anyone! I devoted most of my life volunteering to help children in our schools! I spent over 20 years, working 3-5 days a week, for free! So, why don't you put your money where your mouth is!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: "...thick as two short planks..." Love it!


She certainly comes up with some good ones!! :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> We have numerous choices on our ballots for some offices. The major parties select their candidates with negligible input from the public. It is extremely difficult to determine which if any candidate is someone I would want as the office holder. Most people vote party line or because someone looks better than the opponent.
> 
> When I first became a voter, the League of Women Voters was a flourishing organization. Candidates were researched and interviewed. A newsletter as neutral as possible was distributed to every household with the information. There were public debates. I think we were better able to choose according to our beliefs with such information. Now we just get negative ads on TV. At times I think a pox on both their houses.


And money has become the be-all of all elections! I'd like to see the League of Women Voters information the norm again. All ads would be disallowed. Sames money and gives factual information. Win/win.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I apologise for coming in late to the discussion on socialism, but time differences and a hospital visit this morning gave me no time to respond.
> 
> In the UK, after the war many of our industries were nationalised: coal, rail, bus transport, steel, energy and others. My father was a miner and fought in the war, and he always said that the day they went to work knowing that we all owned the pit was the best day of his life. Before that, mines were privately owned. The houses the workers lived in were owned by the companies, and sometimes the local shops as well. Win win.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> The Hobby Lobby ruling has been thrashed and beaten to death on this thread.
> 
> My only comment is that Hobby Lobby wants the benefits of incorporation but not the downside (to them) of not being able to claim they have religious beliefs. Of course, as it is, they have it both ways. Corporations ARE NOT PEOPLE and we all know that. Let them revert to a proprietorship and they can do as they damn well please.
> 
> I would ask again, is the abortion issue so important that it's worth risking our democracy, particularly when laws against it don't stop it from happening?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I see issues such as abortion (legal for decades,) or LBTG (totally insignificant unless you're going to bed with them) as intended diversions from real issues of importance.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does this apply to babies and children?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm wondering why they would pay them. Why didn't they just refuse them entry into the country, give them food and water, and send them on their way?
> 
> I know that, that sounds cruel, but you've already indicated that your government can no longer provide the level of service to its own citizens. Allowing anyone (who can make it there by boat) to stay, is just going to increase that burden. Governments need to made realistic decisions. Can a country support more people, or not? Resources are finite. It's their job to protect their own people, before any other.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't feel a need to do your homework for you. I sense you would never change your mind. I'm not interested in a wasteful discussion. Sorry.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm still waiting for people to explain to me, what they see as socialism and why they think it could work here. But no one has answered the challenge. People keep telling me that I don't understand what socialism is. So please, draw me a picture.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think Frump is perfect company for the other misfits the GOP is running. Ugh.



Designer1234 said:


> *Frump is just declaring*! what a fool he is. He is soooo arrogant. He is so self loving. can't stand him.!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's wonderful when a third party recognizes your child's talents. You've raised a fine young man.



Wombatnomore said:


> My son was in an Apple store on Sunday looking to find out why his charger wouldn't work and the lady who served him was so impressed she asked him if he would mind coming in for an interview! Gave him her contact details and asked him to send his CV and reasons why he should be hired by Apple. She said he is very personable, beautifully spoken and
> the kind of person they're looking for. The poor kid came home completely confused and said "am I really all of those things mum?" I had to laugh and told him yes. Anyway, he's sent off all his info and we'll see.
> 
> Oh, the lady found the problem and his phone is fine.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Two nut cases write a paper and suddenly it's a moral decline across the board? Who are the "many" people who supposedly support this? Five people? A hundred? I doubt it.
> 
> WE have not declined to the point of killing infants or old people. Just because a couple of people write a stupid paper does not mean it will be embraced, accepted, acted upon or anything else.
> 
> More fuel for the fire of distraction from real issues. This is no accident - it's a deliberate effort to keep people discussing NON-ISSUES so we have neither the time nor energy to see the REAL horrors taking place around us.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Mine was a statement of my belief. It was not intended as criticism of anyone. I try not to bring up the subject of abortion, because it's such a hot button issue. But neither can I let it pass. I feel that I MUST speak out, when the issue comes up. I would have let it pass with just my reference to the Hobby Lobby issue, but you pressed me to answer, whether I thought it was more important than our democracy. I gave you a truthful answer. That's all I can do.
> 
> Let me be clear, I have never thought or said, that any women on this thread "liked" abortion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, Eve. You've proven again that there are no simple, glib answers to complex situations.



EveMCooke said:


> They are not paying the refugees, they are paying the people smugglers who are bringing the refugees to Australia.
> 
> The present Federal Government made a pre election promise to stop the boats before they reach Australian waters and they say they have. But they still do not understand why people are being forced to seek refuge in another country, why they are being forced to flee their own country. Many many people have drowned attempting this dangerous sea crossing to Australia. In fact you could say several thousand people have drowned. You may not remember the disastrous incident when so many people were drowned when a refugee boat smashed into the rocks off Christmas Island. Christmas Island is where one of our off shore detention centres is located.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the second most popular answer was 'none of the above?'



MarilynKnits said:


> Had you read some weeks back about a straw poll of the numerous Republican party potential candidates as well as the declared ones for President? The highest vote getter was "Undecided".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The same thoughts came to my mind. DGreen is one of the most intelligent people I've ever known.



MarilynKnits said:


> When I think of some of the lame brains who were in college with me, and that a girl with a mind as keen as yours didn't have the opportunity to further your options is maddening to me.
> 
> Knowing you and following your reasoning on issues has been a learning experience for me and I thank you. I hope the people surrounding you in your real life appreciate you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> You are very kind, Marilyn. I feel the same about the rest of the ladies here. And yes, I think I'm appreciated.
> 
> I sometimes think the education I got in the world of hard knocks was every bit as good as what students receive in college today. At one time I supplemented my income by typing for students and corrected MANY errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation for graduate students, all the time shaking my head and rolling my eyes. I don't know that I'm all that smart, but I do try to pay attention.


Ah! " I do try to pay attention." That may be the answer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would have died (or killed someone) if I couldn't pick my clothes as a child and teenager! (Drama Queen par excellence.) Wish we had known each other. I would have found a way to send mini-skirts.



BrattyPatty said:


> Oh, Eve, you brought back some funny memories of my mother and I arguing over Easter outfits when I was younger.
> She would pick out the most ridiculous hats for me. One was a white derby looking get up with a huge bow on the side. I tried it on and started laughing so hard that she cracked me one right upside the head. I still laughed and asked her if she was serious. She was. I begged to try on a different style, but no go. I tried to fake a sore throat on Easter so I wouldn't have to be seen in that hat, but it didn't work.
> My clothes were chosen for me from K thru 12 grades in the form of uniforms.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I think that your father's comments "would pay for my business course (typing and shorthand) which was much more important than a silly art course, in case I didn't find a man who would marry me!" would have been typical for that period. Art, music, the theatre were not real jobs they were just messing around. Teenagers had to get 'real jobs' not mess around with all that arty farty nonsense. And of course you had to find a man who would marry you. Never mind your feelings, just find a decent man with a good job and who would marry you. Never mind if you wanted to marry him. I remember having a boyfriend who was quite a bit older than I was, in fact he was 12 years older than me. He had previously dated my older sister, the one who died. She warned me that if I went out with him I would have great difficulty in getting rid of him, how right she was. But at 18 years of age it was a feather in my cap that I attracted the attention of a mature male, plus he had a car and more money that the teenage boys. Mum thought he was a good catch and his mother was dead scared that I would marry him. She hated Catholics with a vengeance. Yes I did continue to go out with him just to spite his mother. He suggested marriage, my mother could see the possibility of a comfortable life for me. I agree that we should marry, I even suggested a double wedding ceremony. All he had to do was find someone who would marry him and I would find someone I agreed to marry. Now what was wrong with that suggestion? Why did it go over like a lead balloon? Oh, I see, I was expected to marry him? I told him and my mother to get real, it is never going to happen, no way would I ever contemplate marrying him.
> 
> But you proved your father wrong, you made a success out of your art work and as far as finding a man who would marry you, well I think you chose your husband and you chose very wisely. You have achieved much as a happy and loving couple. :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Said regarding post from Designer1234.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She certainly comes up with some good ones!! :XD: :XD: :XD:


Haven't you heard the expression before. It is a well used expression in Oz, or it used to be when I was young.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Does this apply to babies and children?


Yes the children are held behind barb wire in the offshore detention centres despite the efforts made by some of us to release children from these prisons. If a refugee mother gives birth whilst in a detention centre the baby is also held in the centre. The Government seems totally ignorant of the harm this is doing to the children. Tony Rabbitt simply does not care, all he cares about is boasting that he has stopped the boats. Mind you Labor's record of holding children behind barb wire in detention centres is no better than that of the Liberal Party.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think Frump is perfect company for the other misfits the GOP is running. Ugh.


Does he honestly believe that he has what it takes to be one of the most powerful men in the world? In his dreams. What would the rest of the world think if that every came to fruition. Oh dear.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Haven't you heard the expression before. It is a well used expression in Oz, or it used to be when I was young.


Well used here as well. We seem to have more vocabulary in common than the rest of the English(ish)-speaking world.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Just Beachy said:


> I don't understand that statement at all. Aren't people obligated to 'cry racism' when they see it? "_If you see something, say something spirit_?
> 
> The REAL problem we all have is the pathological denial of not only implicit racism, but of explicit racism too.
> 
> ...


IMO, only when someone makes a comment that can not be taken any other way than racist, should we open our mouths and make the accusation. Otherwise, we should say nothing at all. This is because we all see things differently, we all have things in our lives that have made us who we are. We cannot know what others are thinking.

I'd also like to call you out on your statement. When I've pointed out your own racism, not once have you said, "oh, no. Was it? In what way?". You've denied your own racism just like everyone else! And just so you don't start accusing me of lying, let me remind you, of the times that you start spouting off about what black people want or think. I'll say it one more time. You don't know what black people want or think. They're as different as any group of people on earth. They all want different things and think different things. It's racist to assume that they're all the same! So, think about how you feel when I call you a racist. You don't like it, do you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> When I think of some of the lame brains who were in college with me, and that a girl with a mind as keen as yours didn't have the opportunity to further your options is maddening to me.
> 
> Knowing you and following your reasoning on issues has been a learning experience for me and I thank you. I hope the people surrounding you in your real life appreciate you.


You must have been one of the few girls in your class who _did_ go to college. I know I was, and I was a few years later and in a bigger home town than you. Several of my friends stopped after high school.

My mother didn't want me to go (I learned from my sister, after I graduated), but accepted it because it was free and she thought I'd become a teacher. I didn't.

As for D, she's an education in herself. I think the world was cheated when she didn't go to college.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Green it seems that some people chose to gravitate to the distractions, one being KFN. KFN you could make some real headway if you started caring for babies like your grandchildren who have been born and need care rather than a bunch of cells or fetuses that can not survive on their own outside the womb. I hope you are just as concerned about semen and the sin on Onanism or don't you hold men to the same standards you expect women to follow? I find it hard to believe that you have ever held a fetus let alone several of them. In my book that is sick and disgusting to do such a thing. If you respect them as you say you do you certainly treat them with the utmost disrespect. Where did you acquire these fetuses? Climbing in a dumpster behind a Planned Parenthood? Your last couple of posts have gone beyond disgusting and if what you believe you are doing is christian I don't want to have anything to do with such awful beliefs. You are the one who the GOP loves to seduce. Wave the red flag of abortion and you are right there at their beck and call. The GOP could give a damn about the unborn all they want is your vote and then they will kick you to the curb. I'm much more concerned with children that are here and are not being cared for and those needing adoption or the elderly. Your priorities are way out of whack. I hope in the next election people that believe as you do are in an extreme minority so real issues and real people can be addressed. :thumbdown:


Cheeky, I don't think you know enough about Nebraska to speak to her as you do. The dil who just had quads was once carrying triplets, who were born seriously prematurely, and the medical people didn't try to keep them alive. I think those were the fetuses she referred to. It was a very sad situation all around.

Also, she's definitely not a GOP supporter, though also definitely not a Democratic supporter - she has said that both parties are equally bad and are beholden to the same money. I think she's wrong on this, but she has certainly given the subject a lot of thought.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> For your information, I held my triplet grandbabies. They were born at 22 weeks, 5 days gestation. If an abortionist aborted babies at this point of gestation, they would be called fetuses. You should get your mind out of the gutter! What you suggested, is sick and disgusting! And if you want to talk about caring for unwanted children? I've done that as well! I adopted a drug baby! I never received a dime from anyone! I devoted most of my life volunteering to help children in our schools! I spent over 20 years, working 3-5 days a week, for free! So, why don't you put your money where your mouth is!


I should have known you didn't need me to come to your defense.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Just Beachy said:


> Exactly, it's when 'socialism' has been paired up with communism, or fascism,dictatorship that it's been misused. But Democratic socialism has been very good for human rights in various countries.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Cheeky, I don't think you know enough about Nebraska to speak to her as you do. The dil who just had quads was once carrying triplets, who were born seriously prematurely, and the medical people didn't try to keep them alive. I think those were the fetuses she referred to. It was a very sad situation all around.
> 
> Also, she's definitely not a GOP supporter, though also definitely not a Democratic supporter - she has said that both parties are equally bad and are beholden to the same money. I think she's wrong on this, but she has certainly given the subject a lot of thought.


-------------------------
Cheeky - I disagree completely with you on this.I agree Purl, she is not anything like the person Cheeky says. Cheeky , I think you have not known her background. She has had a really tough time and As Purl says, she is neither a Democrat nor a Republican. She has strong beliefs and has that right. She is an exceptional Mother and Grandmother through many difficult times with her children.

Their hearts were broken when then lost the triplets at a very early stage. I don't think in any way she is lying.
She visits their graves and to her they are babies. I think that is her and her family's right to deal with as they wish.
She has strong feelings but so do we all. I know how devastating that was. We had 3 miscarriages and it was just is bad if not worse than the sids death we had. Each of us handles our grief differently according to our beliefs.

As far as her knowledge of racism is concerned I think you are wrong there too although I don't agree necessarily with her.

It is up to her to give her reasons, but they are 
justifiable. Each of us has our reasons and background for our feelings about something as dreadful as racism.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

double post, sorry.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thank you, Eve. You've proven again that there are no simple, glib answers to complex situations.


Eve- that is very interesting. I had heard some of that but you tell it very clearly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Just Beachy said:


> You're absolutely right the GDP is a monetary value.
> 
> Trump made a similar mistake today proving he is not informed. (ok, he's stupid) He said that 'the US GDP is never in negative territory" What he meant or should have known enough to say was "growth in GDP". But even if he understood what GDP is, the claim he was attempting to make was false anyway.


I never bother to read what Trump says, but thanks for making me aware of this. The man is the worst kind of idiot, the kind who doesn't realize he's one.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter
obviously you missed some posts from KFN and therefore I understand your position. I know you well enough to know that your tone would have been different had you had all the facts. Any and all of us "step into it" periodically because of not having read all postings. Fault is ours (any one of us) from time to time. Huck


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Of course, you are right.
> 
> I truly don't think anyone is suggesting that the government form some massive new agency that will "place" every citizen in a job chosen by some government worker, or that our students be channeled into any rigid educational path by force.
> 
> I think the idea is that government should always work to provide opportunities for all who need or want a job. Not make-work projects, but real opportunities resulting from a healthy economy and a robust educational system.


IMO A good place to start with a robust educational system would be to bring back the non-academic courses to the high school level. Bring back wood working classes and the basic shop curriculum so students can learn a trade. Let them be open to all students, not just males or those perceived as not academic material. Blue collar jobs shouldn't be considered second class. Plenty of these jobs are available today but cannot be filled because people lack the necessary skills. They also provide wages that support a family.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> IMO A good place to start with a robust educational system would be to bring back the non-academic courses to the high school level. Bring back wood working classes and the basic shop curriculum so students can learn a trade. Let them be open to all students, not just males or those perceived as not academic material. Blue collar jobs shouldn't be considered second class. Plenty of these jobs are available today but cannot be filled because people lack the necessary skills. They also provide wages that support a family.


No argument from me.

Many schools already provide tech classes, which is a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, in the town where I live (that is run by the tea party) schools are being squeezed to the bare bones. The attitude here is that schools should offer nothing but readin', writin' and arithmetic, plus maintenance and transportation. And that's about all they pay for.

Arizona overall is ranked LAST nationally in school spending. Embarrassing.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That reminds me of secondary school where at year 9, everyone was interviewed by a vocational guidance officer from the dept of education. I wasn't asked anything about what my educational aspirations were, I was told that I should take the 'commercial course' (typing, shorthand etc.), for years 10 & 11, leave school, get a job and work until I got married! :shock:


That's the way I see it. It's a good thing you didn't listen to that "guidance". :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Just Beachy said:


> Well here's the rub. It's not as if he's espousing anything different from the rest of the nutjobs in the GOP clown car. He's just more unabashed at expressing those 'ideas'.
> 
> But I have to say the DNC's response to Trump's entry into the race was brilliant:
> 
> "*Today, Donald Trump became the second major Republican candidate to announce for president in two days... He adds some much-needed seriousness that has previously been lacking from the GOP field, and we look forward hearing more about his ideas for the nation*."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Does he honestly believe that he has what it takes to be one of the most powerful men in the world? In his dreams. What would the rest of the world think if that every came to fruition. Oh dear.


He might make your budgie boy look good in comparison. What a revolting development it would be. We have a bunch of clowns coming out of the little car on the vaudeville stage.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> No argument from me.
> 
> Many schools already provide tech classes, which is a step in the right direction.
> 
> ...


That's the whole problem in a nutshell, D. The schools can't afford to pay for these extras. If a referendum by the school district is brought up, 9 times out of 10 it is voted down. Nobody wants to pay that extra property tax. 
In Las Vegas, NV, the schools can't keep up with the population growth. There are quonsets in every school parking lot serving as makeshift classrooms. At the same time, teachers are being laid off. The district can't afford to pay them. My niece is one of them. Now she works 6 hrs per day at 3 different schools. At one time teachers were required to buy their own supplies and texts for the class he/she would be teaching.
Where I live now, the attitude of most of the people here is 'Why should I pay for schools? My kids no longer attend them."


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> He might make your budgie boy look good in comparison. What a revolting development it would be. We have a bunch of clowns coming out of the little car on the vaudeville stage.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You must have been one of the few girls in your class who _did_ go to college. I know I was, and I was a few years later and in a bigger home town than you. Several of my friends stopped after high school.
> 
> My mother didn't want me to go (I learned from my sister, after I graduated), but accepted it because it was free and she thought I'd become a teacher. I didn't.
> 
> As for D, she's an education in herself. I think the world was cheated when she didn't go to college.


Checked my yearbook. There were 117 in my high school graduating class. 58 girls. Digging through reunion newsletters at least 13 of us graduated college, 2 did 2 years and 2 became RNs. All 5 of us who had been tight sharing birthday parties, generally running around together went to college mainly to be teachers or librarians. Of the others, one got her EdD and her husband at McGill, and one went to Stevens that I remember for sure. It was a farming community, and many of the girls married young. Seven of us were in National Honor Society as were seven of the boys. One of the boys went on to study for his doctorate at the Sorbonne. One of the boys was a teacher in a western state and spent many years in that state's legislature. Not shabby for the times and being in a really small town of 10,000 or so people.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> IMO A good place to start with a robust educational system would be to bring back the non-academic courses to the high school level. Bring back wood working classes and the basic shop curriculum so students can learn a trade. Let them be open to all students, not just males or those perceived as not academic material. Blue collar jobs shouldn't be considered second class. Plenty of these jobs are available today but cannot be filled because people lack the necessary skills. They also provide wages that support a family.


Oh, are you singing to the choir here. The non academic courses are needed to give everybody some of the practical skills we need to survive. There are so many people who are bright and who are not interested in attending college who are pushed into Procrustian situations almost forced into college (then dropping out). My husband taught shop for almost 35 years and has fine bright students who are plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics and in other trades where you need to be intelligent to succeed. He is an advocate of the vocational technical high school system where people get their academics and career training. He is disgusted with situations where the vo-tech is used as a dumping ground for difficult kids. It undermines the ambitions of the capable ones. Time to get off my soap box. I so agree with you on this issue.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Bratty, love the clown car meme. Bless you for finding it!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Checked my yearbook. There were 117 in my high school graduating class. 58 girls. Digging through reunion newsletters at least 13 of us graduated college, 2 did 2 years and 2 became RNs. All 5 of us who had been tight sharing birthday parties, generally running around together went to college mainly to be teachers or librarians. Of the others, one got her EdD and her husband at McGill, and one went to Stevens that I remember for sure. It was a farming community, and many of the girls married young. Seven of us were in National Honor Society as were seven of the boys. One of the boys went on to study for his doctorate at the Sorbonne. One of the boys was a teacher in a western state and spent many years in that state's legislature. Not shabby for the times and being in a really small town of 10,000 or so people.


Not shabby? I call it downright impressive!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, are you singing to the choir here. The non academic courses are needed to give everybody some of the practical skills we need to survive. There are so many people who are bright and who are not interested in attending college who are pushed into Procrustian situations almost forced into college (then dropping out). My husband taught shop for almost 35 years and has fine bright students who are plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics and in other trades where you need to be intelligent to succeed. He is an advocate of the vocational technical high school system where people get their academics and career training. He is disgusted with situations where the vo-tech is used as a dumping ground for difficult kids. It undermines the ambitions of the capable ones. Time to get off my soap box. I so agree with you on this issue.


So do I - absolutely Solo.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just Beachy said:


> Exactly That anyone's LIFE is at risk for being foolish essentially means that nearly every teenager's life is at higher risky PURELY because they're teenagers. But especially so since studies have found that cops tend to presume blacks to be older and more dangerous than their white counterparts.
> 
> They see a 12 year old white kid and they recognize him or her as decidedly a child.
> 
> ...


I thought she looked about l0 years old. I have an ll year old grand daughter and she didn't look a day older. I'll have to diagree. Even if he thought she was older he would have been completely out of line no matter what age . jmo


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Said regarding post from Designer1234.


Thanks ladies. My father apologized to me in l984 when he was dying. He said those things in the late l940's. He said it was the biggest mistake he ever made in raising me. We had had a rough road and it was good that we were able to get things out in the open and cleared away before he died.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Cheeky, I don't think you know enough about Nebraska to speak to her as you do. The dil who just had quads was once carrying triplets, who were born seriously prematurely, and the medical people didn't try to keep them alive. I think those were the fetuses she referred to. It was a very sad situation all around.
> 
> Also, she's definitely not a GOP supporter, though also definitely not a Democratic supporter - she has said that both parties are equally bad and are beholden to the same money. I think she's wrong on this, but she has certainly given the subject a lot of thought.


Thank you, Purl!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I should have known you didn't need me to come to your defense.


Maybe I didn't for you to, but I'm grateful that you did. Thank you.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> -------------------------
> Cheeky - I disagree completely with you on this.I agree Purl, she is not anything like the person Cheeky says. Cheeky , I think you have not known her background. She has had a really tough time and As Purl says, she is neither a Democrat nor a Republican. She has strong beliefs and has that right. She is an exceptional Mother and Grandmother through many difficult times with her children.
> 
> Their hearts were broken when then lost the triplets at a very early stage. I don't think in any way she is lying.
> ...


Thank you for defending me. I know that you believe me, but for those who don't...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> IMO A good place to start with a robust educational system would be to bring back the non-academic courses to the high school level. Bring back wood working classes and the basic shop curriculum so students can learn a trade. Let them be open to all students, not just males or those perceived as not academic material. Blue collar jobs shouldn't be considered second class. Plenty of these jobs are available today but cannot be filled because people lack the necessary skills. They also provide wages that support a family.


The idea is a good one, but I'm not sure the wages would support a family any more. That was true in the 50s-70s, when unions were strong, but it's no longer like that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Checked my yearbook. There were 117 in my high school graduating class. 58 girls. Digging through reunion newsletters at least 13 of us graduated college, 2 did 2 years and 2 became RNs. All 5 of us who had been tight sharing birthday parties, generally running around together went to college mainly to be teachers or librarians. Of the others, one got her EdD and her husband at McGill, and one went to Stevens that I remember for sure. It was a farming community, and many of the girls married young. Seven of us were in National Honor Society as were seven of the boys. One of the boys went on to study for his doctorate at the Sorbonne. One of the boys was a teacher in a western state and spent many years in that state's legislature. Not shabby for the times and being in a really small town of 10,000 or so people.


Some of those 10,000 sound very interesting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for defending me. I know that you believe me, but for those who don't...


What a sweet, sad picture.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Patty, It's fun to see the clowns get into the car and drive away, but why do they keep coming back???!!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you for defending me. I know that you believe me, but for those who don't...


I am sure they will live on in your hearts as the guardian angels of their little sisters and brothers.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What a sweet, sad picture.


I am sure it means a great deal to all of you. I understand completely.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am sure they will live on in your hearts as the guardian angels of their little sisters and brothers.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Nebs, Cheeky must not have known your story of the triplets. She is a really good person.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, It's fun to see the clowns get into the car and drive away, but why do they keep coming back???!!


Because they don't how to stay away.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Nebs, Cheeky must not have known your story of the triplets. She is a really good person.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

If Cheeky would have known KFN' story with the triplets, she never would have written what she did. I'm sure of it.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because they don't how to stay away.


Maybe it is because they are recycled same old same old.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Maybe it is because they are recycled same old same old.


With the same lines and gimmicks!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> If Cheeky would have known KFN' story with the triplets, she never would have written what she did. I'm sure of it.


Bratty Patty
and so am I.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What a sweet, sad picture.


    
It's almost their birthday.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am sure it means a great deal to all of you. I understand completely.


Thank you, Shirley.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> If Cheeky would have known KFN' story with the triplets, she never would have written what she did. I'm sure of it.


It was a cruel thing to say, whether she knew or not. I will forgive her, but i cannot get the picture of little babies like ours, in a dumpster behind planned parenthood, out of my mind. It's something I'll never be able to erase. I'm sorry. I just cant talk right now.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> If Cheeky would have known KFN' story with the triplets, she never would have written what she did. I'm sure of it.


I agree - we all go back a long long time and I am absolutely certain of that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> For your information, I held my triplet grandbabies. They were born at 22 weeks, 5 days gestation. If an abortionist aborted babies at this point of gestation, they would be called fetuses. You should get your mind out of the gutter! What you suggested, is sick and disgusting! And if you want to talk about caring for unwanted children? I've done that as well! I adopted a drug baby! I never received a dime from anyone! I devoted most of my life volunteering to help children in our schools! I spent over 20 years, working 3-5 days a week, for free! So, why don't you put your money where your mouth is!


I apologize for hurting your feelings. I was not aware that your family had lost triplets. As you know I have commented on the 
the quads on more than one occasion and wished them nothing but the best. My mind was never in the gutter and I guess yours was not either. You have stated your contributions for
helping children over the years and you must be very proud of yourself. Well done. I do not feel the need to publish my accomplishments on KP and I have always put my money where my mouth is by doing what I feel is right and moral in my responsibility to society at large. I have very different sensibilities than you do and we will never see eye to eye on many things. I believe all life is important not just the unborn and I believe in a woman's right to choose. None of us can judge what any other human is going through and what burdens they are dealing with. I judged you unfairly and I am sorry.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Cheeky, I don't think you know enough about Nebraska to speak to her as you do. The dil who just had quads was once carrying triplets, who were born seriously prematurely, and the medical people didn't try to keep them alive. I think those were the fetuses she referred to. It was a very sad situation all around.
> 
> Also, she's definitely not a GOP supporter, though also definitely not a Democratic supporter - she has said that both parties are equally bad and are beholden to the same money. I think she's wrong on this, but she has certainly given the subject a lot of thought.


Thanks for expressing your feelings, Purl. I didn't have all the facts of her personal life and I have apologized. She expresses herself freely on a variety of topics without apology and I hope she will offer others the leeway she is given here by others including myself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> -------------------------
> Cheeky - I disagree completely with you on this.I agree Purl, she is not anything like the person Cheeky says. Cheeky , I think you have not known her background. She has had a really tough time and As Purl says, she is neither a Democrat nor a Republican. She has strong beliefs and has that right. She is an exceptional Mother and Grandmother through many difficult times with her children.
> 
> Their hearts were broken when then lost the triplets at a very early stage. I don't think in any way she is lying.
> ...


Shirley I have publicly apologized to her concerning the babies. I have never said anything to her concerning racism so you are incorrect about that. Now you have hurt my feelings.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> obviously you missed some posts from KFN and therefore I understand your position. I know you well enough to know that your tone would have been different had you had all the facts. Any and all of us "step into it" periodically because of not having read all postings. Fault is ours (any one of us) from time to time. Huck


I have apologized, Huck.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


My Brat is so funny. What is it that you don't like about Trump?

Tonight's contest:

The person who posts the worst thing that they like about Trump will get tonight's point.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> My Brat is so funny. What is it that you don't like about Trump?
> 
> Tonight's contest:
> 
> The person who posts the worst thing that they like about Trump will get tonight's point.


His face looks like the west end of an east going camel.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> My Brat is so funny. What is it that you don't like about Trump?
> 
> Tonight's contest:
> 
> The person who posts the worst thing that they like about Trump will get tonight's point.


At least I know what to buy him for his birthday: a comb, a mirror and a gift voucher to the local barber.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> My Brat is so funny. What is it that you don't like about Trump?
> 
> Tonight's contest:
> 
> The person who posts the worst thing that they like about Trump will get tonight's point.


I don't care for his arrogant and egotistical demeanor. I think his mouth looks like an anus with dentures, and the hair. Oh that hair! He would look better bald or with a good toupee. 
He has a look of permanent constipation on his face.
On a more serious note, I think he is full of hot air. He talks about how much money he has, but calls all of his bankruptcies "business." A middle class person could never recover from a single bankruptcy let alone the number that he has declared. Their credit would be destroyed.
I think he is all mirrors and smoke. He has no problem with war, but dodged the draft himself.
I could go on and on, but he will reveal enough about himself as the campaign goes on.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> His face looks like the west end of an east going camel.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

ALERT!

Just announced on CNN. The Largest black Church in Charleston South Carolina - Multiple fatalities, mass shooting. Police are searching for a young (it is thought) white man. There was a large number of people in Church at the time of the attack.

No word yet on how many have died or if any were wounded.

CNN is carrying this right now. It just happened and there is a lot of confusion.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't care for his arrogant and egotistical demeanor. I think his mouth looks like an anus with dentures, and the hair. Oh that hair! He would look better bald or with a good toupee.
> He has a look of permanent constipation on his face.
> On a more serious note, I think he is full of hot air. He talks about how much money he has, but calls all of his bankruptcies "business." A middle class person could never recover from a single bankruptcy let alone the number that he has declared. Their credit would be destroyed.
> I think he is all mirrors and smoke. He has no problem with war, but dodged the draft himself.
> I could go on and on, but he will reveal enough about himself as the campaign goes on.


----------------------
His absolute phoniness and the fact he believes is own words about himself. Insufferable


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley I have publicly apologized to her concerning the babies. I have never said anything to her concerning racism so you are incorrect about that. Now you have hurt my feelings.


I read your post incorrectly. It is easy to hurt feelings on these threads.

To be honest I found it very hard to read your words. 
I am just surprised at what you wrote.

I just went back and you are correct. No racism was mentioned.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

The winner of tonight's contest is My EvieeeeeM because she mentioned an animal in her put-down. However, we all believe that a camel is far superior to Trump.

Sorry to get the bad news on TV. I will be serious now and watch. Thanks Designer.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> ----------------------
> His absolute phoniness and the fact he believes is own words about himself. Insufferable


And now it turns out that a lot of the crowd that turned out to hear Trump's big announcement were HIRED. :roll: Actors were paid $50 each at the end of the event--guess it was feared that they'd leave before it was over if they were paid when they got there.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> ALERT!
> 
> Just announced on CNN. The Largest black Church in Charleston South Carolina - Multiple fatalities, mass shooting. Police are searching for a young (it is thought) white man. There was a large number of people in Church at the time of the attack.
> 
> ...


]
Thanks for the information.

CHARLESTON, S.C.  Nine people have died in a shooting at a historic black church in Charleston, S.C., police said early Thursday morning.

"I do believe this was a hate crime," Police Chief Gregory Mullen said.

Eight people died on the scene at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and one person was pronounced dead at a hospital, Mullen said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/06/17/charleston-south-carolina-shooting/28902017/


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh no! Not again!

No, there is no racism in this country at all <Sarcasm>

This has to stop. In a church of all places !! 
It sickens me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> And now it turns out that a lot of the crowd that turned out to hear Trump's big announcement were HIRED. :roll: Actors were paid $50 each at the end of the event--guess it was feared that they'd leave before it was over if they were paid when they got there.


In his speech he mentioned thousands of people coming to hear him speak. It was more like 2 dozen.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh no! Not again!
> 
> No, there is no racism in this country at all <Sarcasm>
> 
> ...


It awakes memories of the horror of the bombing of the church in Birmingham which murdered four young girls. And I am sure the hateful murderers in each case consider themselves good Christians.

To me it does not matter what your professed faith or atheism or agnosticism is. What matters is your humanity, compassion for others, empathy, and your ability to put your good intentions into practice, even something as simple as donating canned goods to your food bank or knitting for a women's shelter or NICU.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Just Beachy said:


> _excerpted just this paragraph_
> You're not being misunderstood, and it's not just about people who see 'everything' as racist. At times you're not even implicitly biased. You expressed some truly 'old fashioned' racist perspectives.


A person can be more sensitive to racist and other exclusionist statements and innuendos when the objects are people in your family whom you love. When you have biracial grandchildren you become especially sensitive and defensive. I can understand where KfN is coming from and don't think anybody needs to be so fast to rush to judgement. She is a person with strong, consistent and definite views on many issues. She and I don't agree in many instances, but have a detente touching on areas where we do have common views.

You don't have to accept or agree with a person on many issues to respect and value the good in that person.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You must have been one of the few girls in your class who _did_ go to college. I know I was, and I was a few years later and in a bigger home town than you. Several of my friends stopped after high school.
> 
> My mother didn't want me to go (I learned from my sister, after I graduated), but accepted it because it was free and she thought I'd become a teacher. I didn't.
> 
> As for D, she's an education in herself. I think the world was cheated when she didn't go to college.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As usual Purl, you're my kind of girl. I've found that I don't bother to read what Trump and most of the rest have to say.



Poor Purl said:


> I never bother to read what Trump says, but thanks for making me aware of this. The man is the worst kind of idiot, the kind who doesn't realize he's one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course there are very good schools in the state. No doubt they are in rich areas. I hear very good things about Kyrene District in Ahwatukee. Shameful it isn't available to all. We understand what it takes to educate well....all we have to do is want it.

Some retirees care more for their tax rate than the education of children. Some see no value in education beyond basics. It troubles me greatly.



DGreen said:


> No argument from me.
> 
> Many schools already provide tech classes, which is a step in the right direction.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just Beachy said:


> Well here's the rub. It's not as if he's espousing anything different from the rest of the nutjobs in the GOP clown car. He's just more unabashed at expressing those 'ideas'.
> 
> But I have to say the DNC's response to Trump's entry into the race was brilliant:
> 
> "*Today, Donald Trump became the second major Republican candidate to announce for president in two days... He adds some much-needed seriousness that has previously been lacking from the GOP field, and we look forward hearing more about his ideas for the nation*."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Patty, you win a prize for the cartoon of the clowns. Made my day. 

I heard someone say once that the child you don't educate may find a career stealing hubcaps from you.....or worse. He/she won't care about you either.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Checked my yearbook. There were 117 in my high school graduating class. 58 girls. Digging through reunion newsletters at least 13 of us graduated college, 2 did 2 years and 2 became RNs. All 5 of us who had been tight sharing birthday parties, generally running around together went to college mainly to be teachers or librarians. Of the others, one got her EdD and her husband at McGill, and one went to Stevens that I remember for sure. It was a farming community, and many of the girls married young. Seven of us were in National Honor Society as were seven of the boys. One of the boys went on to study for his doctorate at the Sorbonne. One of the boys was a teacher in a western state and spent many years in that state's legislature. Not shabby for the times and being in a really small town of 10,000 or so people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: That shows what determination will do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought she looked about l0 years old. I have an ll year old grand daughter and she didn't look a day older. I'll have to diagree. Even if he thought she was older he would have been completely out of line no matter what age . jmo


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No excuses. I demand much more of our police force. I agree it's a difficult, dangerous job but it demands good judgment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm pleased. We all do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time.



Designer1234 said:


> Thanks ladies. My father apologized to me in l984 when he was dying. He said those things in the late l940's. He said it was the biggest mistake he ever made in raising me. We had had a rough road and it was good that we were able to get things out in the open and cleared away before he died.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because they don't how to stay away.


Remind you of anyone?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I apologize for hurting your feelings. I was not aware that your family had lost triplets. As you know I have commented on the
> the quads on more than one occasion and wished them nothing but the best. My mind was never in the gutter and I guess yours was not either. You have stated your contributions for
> helping children over the years and you must be very proud of yourself. Well done. I do not feel the need to publish my accomplishments on KP and I have always put my money where my mouth is by doing what I feel is right and moral in my responsibility to society at large. I have very different sensibilities than you do and we will never see eye to eye on many things. I believe all life is important not just the unborn and I believe in a woman's right to choose. None of us can judge what any other human is going through and what burdens they are dealing with. I judged you unfairly and I am sorry.


And our dear Cheeky has once again proven herself to be a fine person.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't see him revealing his financial information. This will be fun.



BrattyPatty said:


> I don't care for his arrogant and egotistical demeanor. I think his mouth looks like an anus with dentures, and the hair. Oh that hair! He would look better bald or with a good toupee.
> He has a look of permanent constipation on his face.
> On a more serious note, I think he is full of hot air. He talks about how much money he has, but calls all of his bankruptcies "business." A middle class person could never recover from a single bankruptcy let alone the number that he has declared. Their credit would be destroyed.
> I think he is all mirrors and smoke. He has no problem with war, but dodged the draft himself.
> I could go on and on, but he will reveal enough about himself as the campaign goes on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet that's a customary campaign expense for many. That's why people are always suspicious.



sumpleby said:


> And now it turns out that a lot of the crowd that turned out to hear Trump's big announcement were HIRED. :roll: Actors were paid $50 each at the end of the event--guess it was feared that they'd leave before it was over if they were paid when they got there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought of the church bomb that killed those little black girls so long ago. The past repeats itself because we have never dealt with it. IMHO



BrattyPatty said:


> Oh no! Not again!
> 
> No, there is no racism in this country at all <Sarcasm>
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> In his speech he mentioned thousands of people coming to hear him speak. It was more like 2 dozen.


He can't count either. What are his skills? Even skill.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just Beachy said:


> I don't care if you call me a racist because I've seen you demonstrate a serious deficit in truly comprehending what racism even is. You have a very narrow, incomplete and conveniently opaque or guileful understanding.
> 
> From who truly comprehends what racism is and how it manifests, I may take a criticsm like that more seriously. But you've demonstrated to me that you don't understand what it _truly_ is. And it's usually just a guileful "_I know you are but what am I_" retort, not thoughtful.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It awakes memories of the horror of the bombing of the church in Birmingham which murdered four young girls. And I am sure the hateful murderers in each case consider themselves good Christians.
> 
> To me it does not matter what your professed faith or atheism or agnosticism is. What matters is your humanity, compassion for others, empathy, and your ability to put your good intentions into practice, even something as simple as donating canned goods to your food bank or knitting for a women's shelter or NICU.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just a thought. Although we think we know each other well, do we know the race of each other, or do we assume we know?

Favorite quotes: Protect me from the things I think I know. Cynics get what they expect.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


BrattyPatty
and the wild Animals were so glad to be rid of that contraption, they do not want it back.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't care for his arrogant and egotistical demeanor. I think his mouth looks like an anus with dentures, and the hair. Oh that hair! He would look better bald or with a good toupee.
> He has a look of permanent constipation on his face.
> On a more serious note, I think he is full of hot air. He talks about how much money he has, but calls all of his bankruptcies "business." A middle class person could never recover from a single bankruptcy let alone the number that he has declared. Their credit would be destroyed.
> I think he is all mirrors and smoke. He has no problem with war, but dodged the draft himself.
> I could go on and on, but he will reveal enough about himself as the campaign goes on.


Bratty Patty
Trump has no shame. With 4 Bankruptcies to his "credit", we the little folks have helped him to get his ill gotten gains. It is we who have to make up for the monies he did not pay. Read his Biography and you get a rather disturbing picture of this guy. For him to think that he should be President is material for Shrinks. Something is in disarray in his Belfry and I see him no different than the guy who shot 9 People in a Church who blabbered about a certain race "raping our women......."
Trump is suffering from something progressive and it is not Genius.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wonder why the NRA is not taking credit for all of the Murders perpetrated by Guns. Promoting Guns, promotes violence. (Sarcasm)


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


Brat, must you pollute the landscape with his image? Last night I googled 'what is it about Donald Trump' and the general consensus is that he is a boob of the highest order. :XD:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> He can't count either. What are his skills? Even skill.


damemary
his skills are manipulation and he wants to build himself up as the Head Moron of the rich. He wants to get to the top, no matter what infamy it earns him.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> His face looks like the west end of an east going camel.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't care for his arrogant and egotistical demeanor. I think his mouth looks like an anus with dentures, and the hair. Oh that hair! He would look better bald or with a good toupee.
> He has a look of permanent constipation on his face.
> On a more serious note, I think he is full of hot air. He talks about how much money he has, but calls all of his bankruptcies "business." A middle class person could never recover from a single bankruptcy let alone the number that he has declared. Their credit would be destroyed.
> I think he is all mirrors and smoke. He has no problem with war, but dodged the draft himself.
> I could go on and on, but he will reveal enough about himself as the campaign goes on.


 :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It awakes memories of the horror of the bombing of the church in Birmingham which murdered four young girls. And I am sure the hateful murderers in each case consider themselves good Christians.
> 
> To me it does not matter what your professed faith or atheism or agnosticism is. What matters is your humanity, compassion for others, empathy, and your ability to put your good intentions into practice, even something as simple as donating canned goods to your food bank or knitting for a women's shelter or NICU.


 :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I thought of the church bomb that killed those little black girls so long ago. The past repeats itself because we have never dealt with it. IMHO


That crossed my mind as well. This latest massacre is unbelievable. I'm just...stunned.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

It is worth noting that the shooter is a young man.

If we were thinking that racism would die out with the old, think again. Racial hatred is not exclusive to those who learned it back in the 50's. It's alive and well and still taking a toll not only in acts such as this, but in everyday, subtle and insidious ways.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It was just announced that the Church which was attacked is very very old, from BEFORE slavery ended. It has been a base for the Black citizens since then. Dreadful story-


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It is worth noting that the shooter is a young man.
> 
> If we were thinking that racism would die out with the old, think again. Racial hatred is not exclusive to those who learned it back in the 50's. It's alive and well and still taking a toll not only in acts such as this, but in everyday, subtle and insidious ways.


DGreen
no surprise here. Trump singled out the Mexicans and this guy blacks. Racism and Bigotry are alive and well and on the upswing since Reagan.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> With the same lines and gimmicks!


Now, waitaminnit! Not one candidate this year has come up with 9-9-9. I miss that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for expressing your feelings, Purl. I didn't have all the facts of her personal life and I have apologized. She expresses herself freely on a variety of topics without apology and I hope she will offer others the leeway she is given here by others including myself.


Your apology was obviously heartfelt, which I knew it would be once you'd learned her story.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> My Brat is so funny. What is it that you don't like about Trump?
> 
> Tonight's contest:
> 
> The person who posts the worst thing that they like about Trump will get tonight's point.


It's already tomorrow, so I'm out of the running (and would be anyway after Eve's early entry), but did you really mean "the worst thing that they like about Trump" or is a word missing?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh no! Not again!
> 
> No, there is no racism in this country at all <Sarcasm>
> 
> ...


Dr. Tiller was killed in church.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's already tomorrow, so I'm out of the running (and would be anyway after Eve's early entry), but did you really mean "the worst thing that they like about Trump" or is a word missing?


Who knows what I meant? Deconstruct my sentence to your own liking.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Just a thought. Although we think we know each other well, do we know the race of each other, or do we assume we know?
> 
> Favorite quotes: Protect me from the things I think I know. Cynics get what they expect.


It does not matter to me what a person's race is, the important thing is whether the person is a good, kind, compassionate and honest person. But I agree we here on KP do not know each other very well, we only know what the other person cares to disclose about themselves. Hopefully we can learn much by reading all that the other person posts on any given topic and not judge them on a few posts.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Now, waitaminnit! Not one candidate this year has come up with 9-9-9. I miss that.


Poor Purl
perhaps we get more interesting entertainment with The Donald. Does anyone think that he has given up philandering? Once a cheater, always a cheater.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

What do I like best about The Donald? I like it that he does not mind to lay himself "bare". Intelligent people try hard to hide their shortcomings, the Donald trumpets them as loud as he can and that is to our advantage. He makes it perfectly clear that rich does not mean smart.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I bet that's a customary campaign expense for many. That's why people are always suspicious.


 No, I don't think so--if it was we sure would be hearing about it, as we did with Trump. And I've never heard about any of the other nominees, GOP or otherwise, paying to have a crowd.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Of course there are very good schools in the state. No doubt they are in rich areas. I hear very good things about Kyrene District in Ahwatukee. Shameful it isn't available to all. We understand what it takes to educate well....all we have to do is want it.
> 
> Some retirees care more for their tax rate than the education of children. Some see no value in education beyond basics. It troubles me greatly.


Somehow in my neck of the woods we have managed to educate most voters that supporting education is cheaper in the big picture.

Educated people are more likely to get jobs and pay taxes with the rest of us as well as patronize local businesses.

Uneducated people are more likely to need public assistance of various kinds, costing the tax payers more in the long run.

Many better educated people around here end up sending their children to more elite private schools (we have several non sectarian prep types as well as Catholic and Jewish sponsored full day schools conveniently located) taking pressure off public schools.

We are also fortunate to have a broad spectrum tax base so businesses and industry help keep the costs lower for private home owners and landlords of rental properties.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just a thought. Although we think we know each other well, do we know the race of each other, or do we assume we know?


Should it even matter?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> It is worth noting that the shooter is a young man.
> 
> If we were thinking that racism would die out with the old, think again. Racial hatred is not exclusive to those who learned it back in the 50's. It's alive and well and still taking a toll not only in acts such as this, but in everyday, subtle and insidious ways.


People teach their children and grandchildren explicitly and through attitude to either hate or consider us all as part of a rainbow of humanity. Remember that song from an old musical, "You have to be carefully taught"?

When you see young children throwing rocks at soldiers, you know they have been carefully taught whom to hate. Can't call them "anti Semites", either. They are fellow Semites to those they are trying to exterminate, whether it is Jews or Muslims who belong to a different sect.

The world is still filled with barbarians.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> It does not matter to me what a person's race is, the important thing is whether the person is a good, kind, compassionate and honest person. But I agree we here on KP do not know each other very well, we only know what the other person cares to disclose about themselves. Hopefully we can learn much by reading all that the other person posts on any given topic and not judge them on a few posts.


Thank you for your excellent insights.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> perhaps we get more interesting entertainment with The Donald. Does anyone think that he has given up philandering? Once a cheater, always a cheater.


Yes, he'll be a good substitute for Herman Cain in that respect.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> What do I like best about The Donald? I like it that he does not mind to lay himself "bare". Intelligent people try hard to hide their shortcomings, the Donald trumpets them as loud as he can and that is to our advantage. He makes it perfectly clear that rich does not mean smart.


He even makes it clear that rich doesn't mean rich.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> He even makes it clear that rich doesn't mean rich.


Poor Purl
you got that right.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Should it even matter?


No it shouldn't. We share what we wish to share. No need to share anything we don't wish to. It is no one elses 
business.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just announced. The young man's father gave him a 45 calibre pistol for his 21st birthday in April. . That is really beyond my understanding, but is quite normal in the US. I understand. It is a completely different mindset than up here. (I am not saying there are not guns up here but it is not something that is usual in my opinion.} Certainly not anyone I have known or do know. 

Mix it with racism and hate and it can have a terrible result.

Eve and Wombat - is there a gun problem 
'down under' , or are you more of the mindset we have here? I don't remember hearing about a gun problem down there.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Just announced. The young man's father gave him a 45 calibre pistol for his 21st birthday in April. . That is really beyond my understanding, but is quite normal in the US. I understand. It is a completely not guns up here but it is not something that is usual in my opinion.} Certainly not anyone I have known or do know.
> 
> Mix it with racism and hate and it can have a terrible result.
> 
> ...


Eve or Wombat can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Australia has strict gun laws. They were tightened and guns were confiscated after a mass shooting many years ago.

Which makes Australians much more sensible than the US ammosexual culture we have.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Other breaking news. The Pope's encyclical on global warming and it's effect/cause of economic poverty is out today. Democracy Now with Amy Goodman had a really great discussion on the message the encyclical and Pope Francis send to us. Check it out on democracynow.org


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Other breaking news. The Pope's encyclical on global warming and it's effect/cause of economic poverty is out today. Democracy Now with Amy Goodman had a really great discussion on the message the encyclical and Pope Francis send to us. Check it out on democracynow.org


Cue Fox News and rants about the Pope's stance...3...2...1....


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, are you singing to the choir here. The non academic courses are needed to give everybody some of the practical skills we need to survive. There are so many people who are bright and who are not interested in attending college who are pushed into Procrustian situations almost forced into college (then dropping out). My husband taught shop for almost 35 years and has fine bright students who are plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics and in other trades where you need to be intelligent to succeed. He is an advocate of the vocational technical high school system where people get their academics and career training. He is disgusted with situations where the vo-tech is used as a dumping ground for difficult kids. It undermines the ambitions of the capable ones. Time to get off my soap box. I so agree with you on this issue.


I've seen it happen so many times in different states. When I was living in Florida, they started the lottery that was to give a certain portion of the revenue to education. Well, they did that and at the same time, cut education's budget. Go figure. No wonder kids are bored with school. The classes that kids wanted to take were taken off the curriculum. I wonder how many drop outs would have remained in school if they at least had courses they could relate to?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It was just announced that the Church which was attacked is very very old, from BEFORE slavery ended. It has been a base for the Black citizens since then. Dreadful story-


What make it worse is the shooter was sitting in church with the congregation for around an hour before he started shooting. Will it become necessary to go through metal detectors before one can worship?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What make it worse is the shooter was sitting in church with the congregation for around an hour before he started shooting. Will it become necessary to go through metal detectors before one can worship?


I hope not but it sure does look that way.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Eve or Wombat can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Australia has strict gun laws. They were tightened and guns were confiscated after a mass shooting many years ago.
> 
> Which makes Australians much more sensible than the US ammosexual culture we have.


I just typed a lengthy reply to Shirleys question, pressed the wrong key and lost the lot. However, a shorter version.

Yes, we have stricter gun laws. You have to have a firearms licence to own a firearm. Firearms must be stored in a locked cabinet that cannot be easily removed from the premises and the ammunition stored in another locked cabinet, preferably not close to the firearms cabinet. Unfortunately, some people do not lock their guns away. Guns are stolen during robberies and they are illegally smuggled into the country. With the introduction of 3D printers people will be able to print or manufacture their own firearms. The firearms thus produced will be made of plastic and will not be detected by customs and immigration scanners. People do illegally possess guns. Most of the people who illegally possess guns are either members of the bikie gangs or criminals. Unfortunately, others also illegally possess firearms; the person at the centre of the Martin Street siege last year owned an unlicensed firearm. Questions have been raised in Federal Parliament regarding his possession of a firearm. Most of these unlicensed firearms are used in gang or criminal activities. Karl Williams and his family and other criminal families spring to mind. Bikie gangs also use illegally owned firearms in their bikie wars, which are not all that frequent, thankfully.

We are not allowed to open carry firearms in public nor are we allowed to carry fully loaded firearms in public. That goes under the heading of going armed in public but the police often find illegally owned and legally owned firearms in the cars they pull over for a breathalyser or drugs test or for traffic infringements. They also find illegal firearms during a drugs raid on premises. They also find illegal firearms when they raid the bikie headquarters. Illegal firearms are also discovered when the police search a property for stolen goods. My next-door neighbour was up on a charge of being in receipt of stolen goods in 2004 and they discovered several illegal firearms. He and his brother were stealing from building sites and the police van was there for 24 hours removing stolen property. Over $200,000 of stolen property was recovered from his property. He has also been up on illegal drugs charges in 1994 and they discovered illegal firearms then too. I do have some nice neighbours dont I, but I keep him at arms length and we do not socialise. I do not go on to his property and he does not come on to mine. I am polite and will answer if he speaks to me but then that is the beauty of being old, you can be deaf as a door nail and as blind as a bat and therefore I can avoid him when I see him and also have a limited conversation because I cannot hear him all the time. That is my story and I am sticking with it. OK.

However, we do not have the problems that the USA have with citizens carrying out multiple murders by going into churches or schools and randomly shooting people. We have had threats made by individuals and groups to shoot the police or defence personnel and these threats often involve illegally owned firearms.

Yes, our gun laws were tightened not so many years ago. John Howard, the then Prime Minister, introduced stiffer gun control laws after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. Certain types of firearms and ammunition were then not allowed and we had a gun buy back scheme. People surrendered their firearms to the local police station, they were destroyed, and the owners were compensated. We had an increased levy on our Medicare levy for a period to pay for this buy back scheme. I do not think that people in the USA would be happy about that but in Australia we recognised the need for the buy back scheme and the need for the levy to pay for such a scheme.

Many people who legally own guns in Australia do so for recreational shooting, i.e. recreational hunting. We even had people standing for parliament as members of the Shooters Party. Shooting is still an Olympic sport so people who participate in this sport legally own firearms. We also have shooting galleries where people can legally go and hire a gun for a few hours and use it recreationally on those premises. They do not take the guns away from the shooting galleries.

People in Australia are not, on the whole, interested in owning firearms and honest, law abiding citizens would never dream of going armed in public, especially going open carry. Carrying a firearm in their purse, in a shoulder holster, or concealed somewhere on their person when they are shopping???? No, we are not that crazy. As I said, it is an offence to go armed in public. Little old women would never dream of grabbing a gun and shooting if they heard a noise in the night. I think they have more sense and know that the gun is more than likely to be grabbed from their grasp by the criminal and used against them. They also know that their eyesight is not the best and they are not too steady on their feet. Therefore, they know that they may kill members of their family or innocent bystanders or they may fall, especially when coming down the stairs, and either shoot themselves of innocent people. People in the USA say that gun ownership is necessary in order to protect their family or their property. I would ask them honestly, how many times in your life have you ever needed to draw a firearm to protect your family or your property? Now answer me honestly. I would say that the majority of people would honestly answer that they have never been in a situation where they have had to draw their firearms to defend themselves and if this is the case why would they need to do so in the future. People in the USA also argue that gun massacres would be avoided if teachers and others had been armed. Are they sure? Or perhaps more people would have been killed, caught in the crossfire. Some have argued that certain teachers be armed and the firearm stored in the classroom. Right then, which teacher is armed and will they think quickly enough to run and retrieve the firearm and will they be calm enough to carefully take aim, fire and kill or disable the intruder, or will they be shot in the effort to retrieve the firearm, or even worse, will they miss the intruder and shoot a child?

Police officers and people responsible for the transport of cash are armed. They use armoured vehicles for the transport of cash and these vehicles are clearly marked.

Crime is on the increase in Australia and with increased crime comes the increased use of illegally owned firearms. However, as I said, we just do not have the incidents of people shooting and killing people randomly or in schools or churches. Unfortunately, we do have criminals taking pot shots at each other and engaging in drive by shootings.

If a police officer discharges his firearm he immediately suspended, on full pay, from active duty and there is a police investigation into the shooting.

I imported a set of mini wool combs from Canada and the package was x-rayed on arrival in Australia. The package was held up at customs as Customs seized and opened the package, they thought the tines of the combs were bullets. I received the open package from Customs, after a lengthy delay, together with a letter from them explaining why the package had been detected and opened. They asked me to contact them as they were interested in what the items were and what they were used for. They said they were puzzled by the combs with their long, sharp, metal tines. They had never heard of wool combs. I would have been prosecuted if it had contained ammunition.

Australia does not have those 'gun markets' or 'gun fairs' that they have in the USA where people gather to buy and sell firearms.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Eve, we're much the same here, thank goodness. I just cannot understand the US's love affair with firearms, but as long as people are willing to tolerate the thousands of deaths they cause, it will continue. I know it's not as simple as that, but I'm eternally grateful that it's not my personal problem.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

I would be happy if we had much more restrictive gun laws. But I sincerely doubt it will ever happen as there are overwhelming numbers of gun nuts willing to tolerate massacres.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I would be happy if we had much more restrictive gun laws. But I sincerely doubt it will ever happen as there are overwhelming numbers of gun nuts willing to tolerate massacres.


I am happy to live in a state with strong gun laws. But there are so many guns brought here from states where they sell guns to anybody who has the money that some cities are shooting galleries.

When illegal drugs move through the north east corridor, guns usually accompany them and State cops are really at peril when they make traffic stops. With the proliferation of druggies, the gun perils have gotten worse.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am happy to live in a state with strong gun laws. But there are so many guns brought here from states where they sell guns to anybody who has the money that some cities are shooting galleries.
> 
> When illegal drugs move through the north east corridor, guns usually accompany them and State cops are really at peril when they make traffic stops. With the proliferation of druggies, the gun perils have gotten worse.


Well the drug problem is like Prohibition was in the 20's and we had such a problem with gang killings etc. Thanks Nancy Reagan for the Just Say No crap that did nothing to deal with the problem. We need to decriminalize drugs and get the incredibly high profit out of it.

Oh and yeas as with anything that anyone posts on these threads it is my opinion. Just as this is an opinion shared by many social scientists.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well the drug problem is like Prohibition was in the 20's and we had such a problem with gang killings etc. Thanks Nancy Reagan for the Just Say No crap that did nothing to deal with the problem. We need to decriminalize drugs and get the incredibly high profit out of it.
> 
> Oh and yeas as with anything that anyone posts on these threads it is my opinion. Just as this is an opinion shared by many social scientists.


I think there is a great deal of validity in decriminalizing drugs. *And taxing them like any other commodity.*

Sensible people would not be drawn to them any more than to ingesting any other poison, so it would not make us all a bunch of speedheads. It would probably serve to deglamorize them for some of the dummies who are defying society by using them as well.

And for some people, if the establishment is making a profit as through taxation it would make drugs less attractive.

The big thing is it would make dealing unprofitable for criminals and probably clean up the streets in some areas and make living in public housing safer for the people for whom it is the only affordable housing.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I just typed a lengthy reply to Shirleys question, pressed the wrong key and lost the lot. However, a shorter version.
> 
> Yes, we have stricter gun laws. You have to have a firearms licence to own a firearm. Firearms must be stored in a locked cabinet that cannot be easily removed from the premises and the ammunition stored in another locked cabinet, preferably not close to the firearms cabinet. Unfortunately, some people do not lock their guns away. Guns are stolen during robberies and they are illegally smuggled into the country. With the introduction of 3D printers people will be able to print or manufacture their own firearms. The firearms thus produced will be made of plastic and will not be detected by customs and immigration scanners. People do illegally possess guns. Most of the people who illegally possess guns are either members of the bikie gangs or criminals. Unfortunately, others also illegally possess firearms; the person at the centre of the Martin Street siege last year owned an unlicensed firearm. Questions have been raised in Federal Parliament regarding his possession of a firearm. Most of these unlicensed firearms are used in gang or criminal activities. Karl Williams and his family and other criminal families spring to mind. Bikie gangs also use illegally owned firearms in their bikie wars, which are not all that frequent, thankfully.
> 
> ...


==================================
Thanks for the information Eve. Our attitude is much the same although I have never really followed up what our laws are exactly. Never have bothered because it never has been a problem. We have hunter's allowed guns for hunting, and the same general use as yours. There are shooting groups here but I don't know their restrictions. Our streets are safe from citizens carrying open pistols etc. Much like Australia, we would never carry a pistol.

A few Canadians who go south every winter to Arizona or Mexico quite probably have a gun in their travel fifth wheel , or vehicle. _ We never even considered it_. We never heard any of the Canadians say they had guns. Most Americans were horrified. Once an American couple spent most of an evening telling us and another Canadian couple that our lives were in danger and on and on. Pat finally told them we thought their lives were much more in danger than ours. Shut them up. I will look up our specific laws. I know that farmers are allowed guns, but don't know what kind or whether they have to be registered (I imaging they would). Not sure whether it is just for protection for their farm and live stock or whether pistols are allows.

I think Australia's laws are much more realistic than most countries in the fact that everyone HAS TO VOTE! I think that is an excellent idea. They are talking about it here but so far nothing has been done. I do know that lately our voting numbers are not nearly high enough. Thanks again Eve.

I googled it: here are our firearm laws.

*http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/index.html*

Prohibited firearms in Canada (most hand guns are included)

*http://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Canada+-+Prohibited+firearms+laws.++and+exceptions*.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.

The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Eve, we're much the same here, thank goodness. I just cannot understand the US's love affair with firearms, but as long as people are willing to tolerate the thousands of deaths they cause, it will continue. I know it's not as simple as that, but I'm eternally grateful that it's not my personal problem.


Are there still places in the UK where not even the police carry guns? The love affair this country has with guns is fostered purely by the real love affair, with money. As long as gun manufacturers have zillions of lobbyists preventing Congress from dealing with the oversupply of weapons, we're stuck. The federal government is prevented *by law* from keeping statistics on gun ownership and gun deaths. Here, in the "land of the free."


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think there is a great deal of validity in decriminalizing drugs. *And taxing them like any other commodity.*
> 
> Sensible people would not be drawn to them any more than to ingesting any other poison, so it would not make us all a bunch of speedheads. It would probably serve to deglamorize them for some of the dummies who are defying society by using them as well.
> 
> ...


I cannot agree with the decriminalisation of drugs. Legalising drug would not make them less attractive. People would still be tempted to try, they are humans and humans are curious and try, they experiment. Once tried you are hooked and this is even more so with meths. Ice takers would still have their psychological episodes and still be violent and dangerous. Drug takers would still be a danger behind the wheel of a vehicle. Babies born to drug affected mothers would still suffer withdrawal symptoms. Yes, there would be a monetary gain for the government through the taxes raised but the problems would still be there. Sensible people would still be drawn to experiment with drugs, just look at alcohol and the problems associated with the drinking culture. Alcohol is taxed and there but alcohol is still a big problem in society.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I cannot agree with the decriminalisation of drugs. Legalising drug would not make them less attractive. People would still be tempted to try, they are humans and humans are curious and try, they experiment. Once tried you are hooked and this is even more so with meths. Ice takers would still have their psychological episodes and still be violent and dangerous. Drug takers would still be a danger behind the wheel of a vehicle. Babies born to drug affected mothers would still suffer withdrawal symptoms. Yes, there would be a monetary gain for the government through the taxes raised but the problems would still be there. Sensible people would still be drawn to experiment with drugs, just look at alcohol and the problems associated with the drinking culture. Alcohol is taxed and there but alcohol is still a big problem in society.


But the crime rate will go down 'cause junkies won't need to rob and kill for money to buy drugs. Plus I read that in the states with legalized marijuana, young people are not using it as people feared.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> But the crime rate will go down 'cause junkies won't need to rob and kill for money to buy drugs. Plus I read that in the states with legalized marijuana, young people are not using it as people feared.


But you may also have more crackheads walking the streets. Marijuana is not the drug of choice for many young people today, they favour ice.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It is worth noting that the shooter is a young man.
> 
> If we were thinking that racism would die out with the old, think again. Racial hatred is not exclusive to those who learned it back in the 50's. It's alive and well and still taking a toll not only in acts such as this, but in everyday, subtle and insidious ways.


Concerning the age of this young man, I think his ideology of white supremacy is similar to the ideology of young men who join and or want to join gangs or jihad. For whatever reason, they don't connect with their peer group or they become disenfranchised in some other way, or just plain bored and look to these organisations for a kind of camaraderie which bolsters their non-existent self esteem/worth and gives them a cause regardless of how ridiculous it is.

The problem with this is that while they may not hold definite views about the cause they aspire to embrace initially, all of the rhetoric and rubbish espoused to them energises them into action. What puzzles me is that his father gives him a gun for his birthday maybe with the knowledge of the kids views about African American people? Surely not, but then it wouldn't surprise me IMO.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Just announced. The young man's father gave him a 45 calibre pistol for his 21st birthday in April. . That is really beyond my understanding, but is quite normal in the US. I understand. It is a completely different mindset than up here. (I am not saying there are not guns up here but it is not something that is usual in my opinion.} Certainly not anyone I have known or do know.
> 
> Mix it with racism and hate and it can have a terrible result.
> 
> ...


Our gun laws are very strict however, on the news tonight police have revealed that they're finding illegal firearms in possession of people living in the north, north east and west of my state's capital Melbourne every two days! The guns are often found on routine traffic stops. This is new and is worrying:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-19/call-for-national-gun-amnesty-amid-police-concerns/6559158


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I cannot agree with the decriminalisation of drugs. Legalising drug would not make them less attractive. People would still be tempted to try, they are humans and humans are curious and try, they experiment. Once tried you are hooked and this is even more so with meths. Ice takers would still have their psychological episodes and still be violent and dangerous. Drug takers would still be a danger behind the wheel of a vehicle. Babies born to drug affected mothers would still suffer withdrawal symptoms. Yes, there would be a monetary gain for the government through the taxes raised but the problems would still be there. Sensible people would still be drawn to experiment with drugs, just look at alcohol and the problems associated with the drinking culture. Alcohol is taxed and there but alcohol is still a big problem in society.


I think the idea about legalizing drugs has more to do with forcing the collapse of the big cartels. If that happens, drugs (particularly illicit drugs) will more than likely become scarce thereby rendering them harder to come by.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Are there still places in the UK where not even the police carry guns? The love affair this country has with guns is fostered purely by the real love affair, with money. As long as gun manufacturers have zillions of lobbyists preventing Congress from dealing with the oversupply of weapons, we're stuck. The federal government is prevented *by law* from keeping statistics on gun ownership and gun deaths. Here, in the "land of the free."


Only in Ireland do the police carry guns as a matter of course. In the rest of the UK they do not. They only carry guns under special circumstances such as when carrying out special operations.

It's absurd that the government is prevented from keeping gun stats. It's unthinkable that the States have let things go as far as they have.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.
> 
> The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself.


There are always those nutters who will latch on to anything to force their pathetic agenda down the throats of the masses.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Concerning the age of this young man, I think his ideology of white supremacy is similar to the ideology of young men who join and or want to join gangs or jihad. For whatever reason, they don't connect with their peer group or they become disenfranchised in some other way, or just plain bored and look to these organisations for a kind of camaraderie which bolsters their non-existent self esteem/worth and gives them a cause regardless of how ridiculous it is.
> 
> The problem with this is that while they may not hold definite views about the cause they aspire to embrace initially, all of the rhetoric and rubbish espoused to them energises them into action. What puzzles me is that his father gives him a gun for his birthday maybe with the knowledge of the kids views about African American people? Surely not, but then it wouldn't surprise me IMO.


Yes, you have said it. I have always said


> For whatever reason, they don't connect with their peer group or they become disenfranchised in some other way, or just plain bored and look to these organisations for a kind of camaraderie which bolsters their non-existent self esteem/worth and gives them a cause regardless of how ridiculous it is.


 or similar words along the same line. I also believe that is why young males are attracted to the illegal bikie gangs; a sense of camaraderie which boosts the non-existent self esteem. They need to belong to a group. Church and church attendance offers camaraderie to some whilst the football team serves the same purpose for others. Remember the words of John Donne "No man is an island, entire of itself".


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Our gun laws are very strict however, on the news tonight police have revealed that they're finding illegal firearms in possession of people living in the north, north east and west of my state's capital Melbourne every two days! The guns are often found on routine traffic stops. This is new and is worrying:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-19/call-for-national-gun-amnesty-amid-police-concerns/6559158


I saw that news broadcast and found it very unsettling.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Only in Ireland do the police carry guns as a matter of course. In the rest of the UK they do not. They only carry guns under special circumstances such as when carrying out special operations.
> 
> It's absurd that the government is prevented from keeping gun stats. It's unthinkable that the States have let things go as far as they have.


Kiwi coppers do not routinely carry guns. New Zealand Police officers do not normally carry firearms while on standard patrol; only the Diplomatic Protection Squad and airport officers are routinely armed. However, all police officers in New Zealand are given basic firearms training.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> There are always those nutters who will latch on to anything to force their pathetic agenda down the throats of the masses.


Does the Rev Fred Nile spring to mind by any chance?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Only in Ireland do the police carry guns as a matter of course. In the rest of the UK they do not. They only carry guns under special circumstances such as when carrying out special operations.
> 
> It's absurd that the government is prevented from keeping gun stats. It's unthinkable that the States have let things go as far as they have.


It may be part of the mind set from before WWII when the military had guns and the general populace didn't, then too many people were rounded up and murdered because of their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. There were people who thought if the Jews in Poland had guns the Warsaw ghetto would have had a chance to be defended successfully. And that the people of countries that were invaded could have defended themselves as well.

Perhaps it is that subliminal "memory" that feeds mistrust of a strong central government and an armed government.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Again, I'm late to the party, but police here only carry guns in special circumstances. It's almost unknown for police to walk round armed as a matter of course. I am always very disturbed to see armed police (hardly ever, thank goodness).


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> It may be part of the mind set from before WWII when the military had guns and the general populace didn't, then too many people were rounded up and murdered because of their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. There were people who thought if the Jews in Poland had guns the Warsaw ghetto would have had a chance to be defended successfully. And that the people of countries that were invaded could have defended themselves as well.
> 
> Perhaps it is that subliminal "memory" that feeds mistrust of a strong central government and an armed government.


That one is always trotted out by the gun lobby. I think it's a complete red herring. How many European populations have ever had the number of guns in circulation that would make a scrap of difference?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> That one is always trotted out by the gun lobby. I think it's a complete red herring. How many European populations have ever had the number of guns in circulation that would make a scrap of difference?


Just put the issue in play to get a realistic perspective. It is an opinion that is trotted out to influence people to be pro gun, and needs to be dissected.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just put the issue in play to get a realistic perspective. It is an opinion that is trotted out to influence people to be pro gun, and needs to be dissected.


I didn't mean to be rude to you, and I apologise if you were offended. It's probably because I've seen it so many times on KP, and it's getting very irritating.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just put the issue in play to get a realistic perspective. It is an opinion that is trotted out to influence people to be pro gun, and needs to be dissected.


I didn't mean to be rude to you, and I apologise if you were offended. It's probably because I've seen it so many times on KP, and it's getting very irritating.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I didn't mean to be rude to you, and I apologise if you were offended. It's probably because I've seen it so many times on KP, and it's getting very irritating.


The whole point is that it is irritating, and need to be put to rest.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Only in Ireland do the police carry guns as a matter of course. In the rest of the UK they do not. They only carry guns under special circumstances such as when carrying out special operations.
> 
> It's absurd that the government is prevented from keeping gun stats. It's unthinkable that the States have let things go as far as they have.


The gun makers have a lot of money and claim to have a lot of political clout. Interestingly, many candidates who had their support lost in the 2012 elections.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Again, I'm late to the party, but police here only carry guns in special circumstances. It's almost unknown for police to walk round armed as a matter of course. I am always very disturbed to see armed police (hardly ever, thank goodness).


That's a relief. It indicates that your society is still civilized.

I think arming the police actually raises the incidence of shootings. If criminals think they need guns to protect themselves, they'll be certain to get guns; once they have them, they might as well use them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> But the crime rate will go down 'cause junkies won't need to rob and kill for money to buy drugs. Plus I read that in the states with legalized marijuana, young people are not using it as people feared.


I agree, SQM. The consequences and pitfalls of drug use (addiction, crack babies) are all too real and very sobering, but the fantastic profits, the trafficking, and the criminal activity associated with these "controlled substances" are just as bad.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> But you may also have more crackheads walking the streets. Marijuana is not the drug of choice for many young people today, they favour ice.


It's true we might have more addicts if drugs were legal, but I don't believe they'd be prowling the streets looking for their next fix--instead they'd be packing the rehab centers trying to get themselves straightened out. Criminalizing drugs makes for artificial scarcity, and addicts spend most of their trying to score sources and $$$ enough to feed their habit--there's little time left for contemplation and developing an awareness that drug use is a dead end street.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.
> 
> The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself.


Well, I'm glad he got that all sorted out. {sarcasm} I spent a fair amount of time yesterday reading the commentary on Yahoo News and the like, and religious racists really seemed to be in a quandary--wanting to point to the massacre as evidence that Christians are being persecuted but being unwilling to identify themselves with African-Americans in any way, shape, or form. It was nauseating.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> That one is always trotted out by the gun lobby. I think it's a complete red herring. How many European populations have ever had the number of guns in circulation that would make a scrap of difference?


Absolutely, Aw. A lot of gun nuts here claim to be arming themselves so they can fend off the military/Feds. Honestly! Do they honestly believe their little Colt 45s and Glocks are going to be of any use against the high-power rifles, tanks, grenade launchers and other hardware the US military has at its disposal?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.
> 
> The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself.


sumpleby
Graham is just another Nut. This was a racist act and had absolutely nothing to do with Religion. Religion just gave him easy access to People he hates.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I would like to be enlightened on the mentality of people who give guns as birthday presents. I hold the dad responsible as much as the son. Maybe when Judyjudyjudy comes on, she will explain to me how southerners think.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GUNS: This Charleston Guy as many other Killers would never gain infamy if Guns had not been so easily obtained. These are folks who are Losers all around and hatred, bigotry and racism takes over their Lives. 

Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success. Really? 

By the way, we have more murders in one day than most western countries have in a year. We are a violent Nation and we can thank the NRA for it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would like to be enlightened on the mentality of people who give guns as birthday presents. I hold the dad responsible as much as the son. Maybe when Judyjudyjudy comes on, she will explain to me how southerners think.


SQM
Intelligence does not roam in that household. Many Southerners seem to have never left the Neanderthal Age.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely, Aw. A lot of gun nuts here claim to be arming themselves so they can fend off the military/Feds. Honestly! Do they honestly believe their little Colt 45s and Glocks are going to be of any use against the high-power rifles, tanks, grenade launchers and other hardware the US military has at its disposal?


susanmos2000
What a way to live!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

14 times the President had to console grieving families in 6 years. A number that would not occur in other western countries in 100 years. That does not speak well about our Society and unfortunately the wealthy NRA will make sure that nothing changes to reverse violence. 

Time WE THE PEOPLE stand up and push our Lawmakers to 
enact strict gun control. Whom do we see to always carry Guns where-ever they are? People like Al Qaeda and ISIS. If we let the NRA have its way, more and more, our Streets will be peppered with folks having guns strapped to their bodies. Frightening thought.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Does the Rev Fred Nile spring to mind by any chance?


He appeared on the panel of Q&A on the ABC on Thursday night and the topic was homosexuality. His mantra all night was that G-d loves everyone, even homosexuals!!! My word Fred Nile springs to mind in the most unpleasant way. :hunf:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, SQM. The consequences and pitfalls of drug use (addiction, crack babies) are all too real and very sobering, but the fantastic profits, the trafficking, and the criminal activity associated with these "controlled substances" are just as bad.


Not to mention the fact that in some areas, selling drugs is the only profit-making business open to young black men and teenagers.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I would like to be enlightened on the mentality of people who give guns as birthday presents. I hold the dad responsible as much as the son. Maybe when Judyjudyjudy comes on, she will explain to me how southerners think.


Southerners think? (Boy, was that a cheap joke, but an easy one.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> GUNS: This Charleston Guy as many other Killers would never gain infamy if Guns had not been so easily obtained. These are folks who are Losers all around and hatred, bigotry and racism takes over their Lives.
> 
> Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success. Really?
> 
> By the way, we have more murders in one day than most western countries have in a year. We are a violent Nation and we can thank the NRA for it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It may be part of the mind set from before WWII when the military had guns and the general populace didn't, then too many people were rounded up and murdered because of their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. There were people who thought if the Jews in Poland had guns the Warsaw ghetto would have had a chance to be defended successfully. And that the people of countries that were invaded could have defended themselves as well.
> 
> Perhaps it is that subliminal "memory" that feeds mistrust of a strong central government and an armed government.


Sorry Marilyn, I don't mean to be arrogant about the U.S. gun law situation but as President Obama said regarding the church massacre, the U.S., is the only "advanced country" where these shootings still occur.

The Australian Federal Government in 1996 conducted a gun amnesty in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre:

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/port-arthur-massacre-in-australia

The gun amnesty netted firearms to the value of approx., $700,000.00AUD. There hasn't been a massacre in Australia since. In fact, many countries from around the world have studied the Australian gun amnesty of '96.

However, as I reported in a previous post, illegal firearms are increasing in numbers in my own home state and police are finding them in cars on routine traffic stops! There is now talk of replicating the gun amnesty in an attempt to again reduce the number of illegal firearms in the country.

It all may just be a moot point though now that functional guns can be made with 3D printers. Oy.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's a relief. It indicates that your society is still civilized.
> 
> I think arming the police actually raises the incidence of shootings. If criminals think they need guns to protect themselves, they'll be certain to get guns; once they have them, they might as well use them.


That is very true.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> 14 times the President had to console grieving families in 6 years. A number that would not occur in other western countries in 100 years. That does not speak well about our Society and unfortunately the wealthy NRA will make sure that nothing changes to reverse violence.
> 
> Time WE THE PEOPLE stand up and push our Lawmakers to
> enact strict gun control. Whom do we see to always carry Guns where-ever they are? People like Al Qaeda and ISIS. If we let the NRA have its way, more and more, our Streets will be peppered with folks having guns strapped to their bodies. Frightening thought.


One of the most confronting situations of my life happened when I went to Egypt in the late '80's. An armed soldier stood a few feet away from the door of the plane as we all disembarked. The gun he was holding looked like an automatic machine gun. It was a monster and everywhere I went in Cairo there were military personnel on nearly every corner armed with the same looking monster. Gave me the creeps big time.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, SQM. The consequences and pitfalls of drug use (addiction, crack babies) are all too real and very sobering, but the fantastic profits, the trafficking, and the criminal activity associated with these "controlled substances" are just as bad.


I agree as well. I have always thought that all drugs should be legal and controlled, the same as alcohol. It would remove major criminals from the supply chain and raise millions in tax.

Heroin was only made illegal in 1968 in this country, and at that time it was mostly "respectable" people who were users. I think a massive part of the problem people have with drugs is who is using them. Now it's the "scum" class, and they have to be punished.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> One of the most confronting situations of my life happened when I went to Egypt in the late '80's. An armed soldier stood a few feet away from the door of the plane as we all disembarked. The gun he was holding looked like an automatic machine gun. It was a monster and everywhere I went in Cairo there were military personnel on nearly every corner armed with the same looking monster. Gave me the creeps big time.


Wombatnomore
I have been at Airports where it looked like I entered into a War Zone. If we do not straighten out our Gun Laws, it will not take long until our Economy will suffer because no-body will frequent Malls (except the Nuts with Guns) and people avoid all Stores as much as possible. I am already watching out if there are Pick-ups with Gun Racks in Parking Lots, which is only one indication that some Nut who is unhappy with the service could grab a Gun and then there are those with bulging pockets who carry concealed. Oh my, AMERICA, THE LAND OF THE FREE.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I agree as well. I have always thought that all drugs should be legal and controlled, the same as alcohol. It would remove major criminals from the supply chain and raise millions in tax.
> 
> Heroin was only made illegal in 1968 in this country, and at that time it was mostly "respectable" people who were users. I think a massive part of the problem people have with drugs is who is using them. Now it's the "scum" class, and they have to be punished.


aw9358
if people in high positions would not be involved in drugs, the problem would have been solved long ago. I am for legalizing as well to take big money out of that business.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> I have been at Airports where it looked like I entered into a War Zone. If we do not straighten out our Gun Laws, it will not take long until our Economy will suffer because no-body will frequent Malls (except the Nuts with Guns) and people avoid all Stores as much as possible. I am already watching out if there are Pick-ups with Gun Racks in Parking Lots, which is only one indication that some Nut who is unhappy with the service could grab a Gun and then there are those with bulging pockets who carry concealed. Oh my, AMERICA, THE LAND OF THE FREE.


So true, Huck. A lot of yoyos are suggesting that the massacre need not have happened if that church hadn't been a gun-free zone, and one or more of the victims had been armed. Great--blazing gun battles in churches, supermarkets, and shopping malls. Think, Americans--IS THAT REALLY HOW YOU WANT TO LIVE?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Huck. A lot of yoyos are suggesting that the massacre need not have happened if that church hadn't been a gun-free zone, and one or more of the victims had been armed. Great--blazing gun battles in churches, supermarkets, and shopping malls. Think, Americans--IS THAT REALLY HOW YOU WANT TO LIVE?


Makes me think of the Hollywood version of the Old West and the OK Corral shoot out.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I cannot agree with the decriminalisation of drugs. Legalising drug would not make them less attractive. People would still be tempted to try, they are humans and humans are curious and try, they experiment. Once tried you are hooked and this is even more so with meths. Ice takers would still have their psychological episodes and still be violent and dangerous. Drug takers would still be a danger behind the wheel of a vehicle. Babies born to drug affected mothers would still suffer withdrawal symptoms. Yes, there would be a monetary gain for the government through the taxes raised but the problems would still be there. Sensible people would still be drawn to experiment with drugs, just look at alcohol and the problems associated with the drinking culture. Alcohol is taxed and there but alcohol is still a big problem in society.


I agree. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I agree. :thumbup: :thumbup:


I agree too.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, I'm glad he got that all sorted out. {sarcasm} I spent a fair amount of time yesterday reading the commentary on Yahoo News and the like, and religious racists really seemed to be in a quandary--wanting to point to the massacre as evidence that Christians are being persecuted but being unwilling to identify themselves with African-Americans in any way, shape, or form. It was nauseating.


Those innocents who were murdered were practicing a pure form of Christianity, too, welcoming the stranger to pray with them. A stranger who turned out to be a Trojan horse. The supporters of prejudices and racism can't trumpet their Christianity, which is a mockery compared to the congregants who were brutally killed.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I would like to be enlightened on the mentality of people who give guns as birthday presents. I hold the dad responsible as much as the son. Maybe when Judyjudyjudy comes on, she will explain to me how southerners think.


That father is probably responsible for much more than just giving his son the gun. The kid didn't pick up his bigotry from the air, for sure.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> But the crime rate will go down 'cause junkies won't need to rob and kill for money to buy drugs. Plus I read that in the states with legalized marijuana, young people are not using it as people feared.


I think it will make the cartels that much more dangerous. Legalizing drugs cuts into their profits and they are in this business for the money.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> I would like to be enlightened on the mentality of people who give guns as birthday presents. I hold the dad responsible as much as the son. Maybe when Judyjudyjudy comes on, she will explain to me how southerners think.


People all over the country give their children guns. It's a rite of passage in some families. I think the father's responsibility first should be his lack of knowledge to what is/was going on with his son. The second area would be giving his son the gun. It is not a "southern" thing.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> GUNS: This Charleston Guy as many other Killers would never gain infamy if Guns had not been so easily obtained. These are folks who are Losers all around and hatred, bigotry and racism takes over their Lives.
> 
> Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success. Really?
> 
> By the way, we have more murders in one day than most western countries have in a year. We are a violent Nation and we can thank the NRA for it.


Illinois has strict gun control laws and the murder rate in Chicago is super high. Criminals will always get their guns. And the analogy with Nazi Germany will always hold true for me. If such a cultured country can sink into barbarism, any country can.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> That father is probably responsible for much more than just giving his son the gun. The kid didn't pick up his bigotry from the air, for sure.


MarilynKnits
just as I feel. I saw that the father flies a Flag in front of his house. When people have that need, I always wonder why. Displaying the Flag for special occasions is respectful but displaying it constantly makes me very uncomfortable with the people who do so.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Illinois has strict gun control laws and the murder rate in Chicago is super high. Criminals will always get their guns. And the analogy with Nazi Germany will always hold true for me. If such a cultured country can sink into barbarism, any country can.


SQM
I think that the Illinois gun laws are much too broad.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

In Saudi Arabia (and other countries in the Mid-East), you are severely punished. (Take off someone's arm and yours comes off too).


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

9/11 was the last time that every single house (in our large town) had flags being displayed. That was a national emergency and very appropriate. :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

mmorris said:


> In Saudi Arabia (and other countries in the Mid-East), you are severely punished. (Take off someone's arm and yours comes off too).


And... what?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I agree as well. I have always thought that all drugs should be legal and controlled, the same as alcohol. It would remove major criminals from the supply chain and raise millions in tax.
> 
> Heroin was only made illegal in 1968 in this country, and at that time it was mostly "respectable" people who were users. I think a massive part of the problem people have with drugs is who is using them. Now it's the "scum" class, and they have to be punished.


That's a very smart way to look at the problem.

In this country, we had Prohibition, when alcohol was not served legally. So it was served illegally, and suddenly we had organized crime. The period of Prohibition coincided with the 1920s, the flapper era, and obviously the upper classes were not going to abide by it. Still, it took about 10 or 15 years before it was withdrawn. In the meantime a lot of shady characters made a lot of money, and a lot of moguls made a lot of movies.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sumpleby wrote:
"Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.

The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself."

My answer to this is that it was a black Christian church. He did not enter a white church and kill white people. I am sick and tired of people denying the racism that exits and proliferates in this country.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> just as I feel. I saw that the father flies a Flag in front of his house. When people have that need, I always wonder why. Displaying the Flag for special occasions is respectful but displaying it constantly makes me very uncomfortable with the people who do so.


Conspicuous professors of patriotism strike me as phony as conspicuous consumers of religion. The people who are really patriotic don't have to (or tend to) advertise, and the people who are true to their faith or moral standards live their belief and don't have to advertise it loudly. My opinion.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Just Beachy said:


> But the problem is that often people making sweeping decisions end up making problems worse.
> 
> For instance, states have made it difficult for even legit users of prescription drugs to get the medication they genuinely need ... it's CREATED a market for illegal drugs. In every state where they've created barriers to prescription pain medication heroin use has gone through the roof.
> 
> ...


Isn't that the truth! One of my prescriptions has been turned into a gov't enforced schedule 2 drug. This means I have to go the doctors office once a month and pick up a written scrip. Now, if they get lost or stolen..tough luck. The pharmacies won't refill them. No grace for vacations either. I don't get mine filled on a monthly basis. More like bi-monthly. I would hate to be the woman who got robbed or misplaced them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Conspicuous professors of patriotism strike me as phony as conspicuous consumers of religion. The people who are really patriotic don't have to (or tend to) advertise, and the people who are true to their faith or moral standards live their belief and don't have to advertise it loudly. My opinion.


So true, Marilyn.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Question: I think I know what you feel about the following. I just have some questions about it. How does this happen?

I have always wondered why _is the Flag that represented the south during the civil war_,,flying over Charleston and many other southern states?

It seems to me that it would be like the feelings that those who lost family in the holocaust, and all Jews, would feel if the Nazi flag was flying in Germany. Is that something I am wrong about? The shooter's car had a license plate with the Confederate State of America on it.

I have heard people defend the practice but it just doesn't wash. They lost the war. It represents a horror. Are they that powerful that Americans just ignore it? I doubt that Blacks whose families were slaves, ignore it. jmo

It must be a slap in the face every time a descendant of one of those slaves see it. It has not even been taken down after this massacre? Not even flown at half mast. I guess it tells the real story. Who has the power in the south? I have wanted to ask that before. Nothing can change that it represented pro slavery.They say it doesn't but how could it not? You would think it would be a courtesy if nothing else. The Governor has said it is a non issue when asked about it.

It boggles the mind. I personally don't think the problems in the States will ever end until the south accepts the fact they they LOST THE WAR, and that flag removed from public places.

soooo sad!


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

Lindsay Graham is his own worst enemy!


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Now HERE'S one for the books: supposedly the pastor of the church was responsible for all the deaths!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stor-for-the-deaths-in-charleston-yes-really/

Charles L. Cotton is a National Rifle Association board member who also runs TexasCHLForum.com, an online discussion forum about guns and guns rights in Texas and beyond. In a discussion thread yesterday which has since been deleted, a commenter noted that one of the 9 people slain at a Charleston church, Clementa C. Pinckney, was a pastor and a state legislator in South Carolina. Cotton responded:

And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.

************

The NRA has taken the comment down, but a screen shot was taken before they could and can be seen on the page I gave the link to.

The gall of these people is simply breathtaking


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mmorris said:


> In Saudi Arabia (and other countries in the Mid-East), you are severely punished. (Take off someone's arm and yours comes off too).


mmorris
not only that, punishment is swift. Most of the time within days.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mmorris said:


> 9/11 was the last time that every single house (in our large town) had flags being displayed. That was a national emergency and very appropriate. :thumbup:


mmorris
yes, that was most appropriate and we also had a black banner on the Mailbox and Candles in all windows for those we lost. There is a time for everything but overkill makes everything worthless in my opinion. Flying a Flag daily is like having a Christmas Tree year round.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> sumpleby wrote:
> "Oh brother!! Have you heard Lindsay Graham on the shooting in South Carolina? He's painting the picture that it is part of a war on Christianity, that it was religion-based.
> 
> The guy was telling the folks in the church it was because of their race, and was wearing apartheid and white Rhodesia patches but, no! Graham states it was because of their religion. Guess he knows better than the shooter himself."
> ...


peacegoddess
let us keep reminding everyone over and over again that we are quite aware of their racism and bigotry.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Conspicuous professors of patriotism strike me as phony as conspicuous consumers of religion. The people who are really patriotic don't have to (or tend to) advertise, and the people who are true to their faith or moral standards live their belief and don't have to advertise it loudly. My opinion.


MarilynKnits
a most valuable opinion. Thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mmorris said:


> Lindsay Graham is his own worst enemy!


mmorris
Lindsey Graham is a Dunce. He always makes me uncomfortable when he speaks, no matter what he says. There is something not forthright with him.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

This is for our Splendid Sloth! A darling brave girl has a bucket list which includes meeting a Sloth:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3130963/Meet-brave-young-girl-rare-condition-determined-travel-world-wheelchair-ticks-bucket-list-includes-meeting-sloth-swimming-turtles.html


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> mmorris
> Lindsey Graham is a Dunce. He always makes me uncomfortable when he speaks, no matter what he says. There is something not forthright with him.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: "...Dunce." I haven't heard that used since primary school! Ah, memories. :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> I have been at Airports where it looked like I entered into a War Zone. If we do not straighten out our Gun Laws, it will not take long until our Economy will suffer because no-body will frequent Malls (except the Nuts with Guns) and people avoid all Stores as much as possible. I am already watching out if there are Pick-ups with Gun Racks in Parking Lots, which is only one indication that some Nut who is unhappy with the service could grab a Gun and then there are those with bulging pockets who carry concealed. Oh my, AMERICA, THE LAND OF THE FREE.


Huck, it's frightening and very sad when we feel the need to be hyper alert while out in public. I am always looking around, especially in car parks where criminals typically target people who are concentrating on getting their goods into the car and then to get home.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> He appeared on the panel of Q&A on the ABC on Thursday night and the topic was homosexuality. His mantra all night was that G-d loves everyone, even homosexuals!!! My word Fred Nile springs to mind in the most unpleasant way. :hunf:


I taped the show but have yet to watch it. I must do so today, Saturday. I have never liked that person, I will not call him a man.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I think it will make the cartels that much more dangerous. Legalizing drugs cuts into their profits and they are in this business for the money.


I disagree completely. If drugs are legalized, there's nothing to be dangerous about, except for the politicians who pass the law.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> GUNS: This Charleston Guy as many other Killers would never gain infamy if Guns had not been so easily obtained. These are folks who are Losers all around and hatred, bigotry and racism takes over their Lives.
> 
> Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success. Really?
> 
> By the way, we have more murders in one day than most western countries have in a year. We are a violent Nation and we can thank the NRA for it.





> Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success


If the idiot who said that would just stop for a few minutes and enact his scenario out in their head they would see how stupid it was.

BANG first shot. What was that noise. Sounded like gunfire

BANG BANG OMG It was gun fire I feel really shaky and scared, what will I do.

BANG BANG BANG Must get my gun out and shoot the shooter. With an unsteady hand they fumble for their gun. Fires a shot or a couple of shots at the person they suspect is the shooter, misses and shoots the person sitting next to the shooter.

BANG BANG BANG Everyone else who is toting a gun also reaches for their gun but the shooter has already shot and killed nine people.

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG Everyone who has a gun is firing at the person they think or suspect is the shooter. BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG How many people would be caught in the crossfire, how many people would be killed or injured by misfires.

No, the statement 


> Some Idiot on TV said that had the people in church been armed, this guy would have had not as much success


 is way of track. If the people in the church been armed the situation would have been worse.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Just Beachy said:


> Agreed, it's more than a culture of white supremacy, it's a strain of that culture that is more about white victimhood and framing blacks as the 'real" purveyors of racism.
> 
> What he's heard from his political leaders is that they need to "Take your country back". So he did his part.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that excellent extrapolation Beachy. The power of suggestion is frightening and the consequences are devastating. How many more 'Roofs' are out there and how many more people will die? Makes me feel sick.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Now HERE'S one for the books: supposedly the pastor of the church was responsible for all the deaths!
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stor-for-the-deaths-in-charleston-yes-really/
> 
> ...


Don't the NRA do this after every gun massacre? What a disgusting way to advertise.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sorry Marilyn, I don't mean to be arrogant about the U.S. gun law situation but as President Obama said regarding the church massacre, the U.S., is the only "advanced country" where these shootings still occur.
> 
> The Australian Federal Government in 1996 conducted a gun amnesty in the wake of the Port Arthur massacre:
> 
> ...


I agree, there are far too many guns on our streets. When the idiot next door was done for possession of stolen goods in 2004 the police found a number of unlicensed firearms on the property. The police van was there for 24 hours taking away over $200,000 worth of stolen items. I was watching them from time to time out of the computer room window, my house is set a little higher than his and I could see over the fence. I saw two coppers each carrying something out in their outstretched arms and their arms were covered with a blanket. Yes they were carrying unlicensed rifles. I was speaking to one of the coppers a little later and he told me to take care as they had removed firearms from the property. I asked if what I had witnessed was the firearms and he said "yes". The neighbour was done for drugs in 1994 and they also retrieved unlicensed firearms from the property then. He had a marijuana crop growing between the 2 metre side fence and his big shed. I did not know anything about the crop because I cannot see over the fence into that confined space but he was dobbed in to the coppers by one of his mates after they had an argument. He actually told me who dobbed him in when I was talking to him a couple of years later. As I said, I keep this man at arms length and usually confine our conversations to a polite greeting and very few words. No, I do not want to move, we have lived here now for 24 years and Kai will not contemplate moving again. He has moved too many times in his life, this is his home.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Now HERE'S one for the books: supposedly the pastor of the church was responsible for all the deaths!
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stor-for-the-deaths-in-charleston-yes-really/
> 
> ...


Hard as it is to believe, there's even crazier stuff out there--that African-Americans are to blame (the punk was justifiably outraged by the protests and riots in Ferguson and Cleveland)--it's Obama's fault (for fanning the flames of racism)--liberals are guilty (the kid was a closet Democrat) and so on and so.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> is way of track. If the people in the church been armed the situation would have been worse.


Absolutely. If everyone was armed with a handgun then criminals would simply up the firepower with more guns, extra magazines, and hollow or multiple impact bullets. Ordinary law-abiding citizens who believe they can outgun the criminals are simply kidding themselves.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I agree, there are far too many guns on our streets. When the idiot next door was done for possession of stolen goods in 2004 the police found a number of unlicensed firearms on the property. The police van was there for 24 hours taking away over $200,000 worth of stolen items. I was watching them from time to time out of the computer room window, my house is set a little higher than his and I could see over the fence. I saw two coppers each carrying something out in their outstretched arms and their arms were covered with a blanket. Yes they were carrying unlicensed rifles. I was speaking to one of the coppers a little later and he told me to take care as they had removed firearms from the property. I asked if what I had witnessed was the firearms and he said "yes". The neighbour was done for drugs in 1994 and they also retrieved unlicensed firearms from the property then. He had a marijuana crop growing between the 2 metre side fence and his big shed. I did not know anything about the crop because I cannot see over the fence into that confined space but he was dobbed in to the coppers by one of his mates after they had an argument. He actually told me who dobbed him in when I was talking to him a couple of years later. As I said, I keep this man at arms length and usually confine our conversations to a polite greeting and very few words. No, I do not want to move, we have lived here now for 24 years and Kai will not contemplate moving again. He has moved too many times in his life, this is his home.


Grossly unsettling to have an arsenal of weapons stowed right next door. Was the man a hunter? Did he ever tell you what he used the firearms for?

I remember as a kid my father and older brother (later with my twin brother), used to go rabbit shooting. One day after school, I was watching TV and felt something against the back of my head. I instinctively whipped around with my left arm raised, pushing the barrel of my older brothers .22 caliber rifle away from me. At that instant, my mother saw what was happening, grabbed my twin brother and the gun and took both of them outside. Next thing I know, brother is in bed without dinner and I never saw the rifle again. My mother told me the rifle wasn't loaded but now as an adult, that is not reassuring. My twin was mucking around as kids do however that bloody rifle should never have been in a place where we kids could access it.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Grossly unsettling to have an arsenal of weapons stowed right next door. Was the man a hunter? Did he ever tell you what he used the firearms for?
> 
> I remember as a kid my father and older brother (later with my twin brother), used to go rabbit shooting. One day after school, I was watching TV and felt something against the back of my head. I instinctively whipped around with my left arm raised, pushing the barrel of my older brothers .22 caliber rifle away from me. At that instant, my mother saw what was happening, grabbed my twin brother and the gun and took both of them outside. Next thing I know, brother is in bed without dinner and I never saw the rifle again. My mother told me the rifle wasn't loaded but now as an adult, that is not reassuring. My twin was mucking around as kids do however that bloody rifle should never have been in a place where we kids could access it.


No, he was not a hunter. He just likes collecting things; anything that is not screwed down seems to find its way to his property, you would be amazed at what he has stacked around his property. That is why he and his brother were charged with the stealing and receiving charges in 2004, they were nicking from building sites. He was employed as a roofing tradesman on various building sites, mainly shopping centres, etc. If another workman left his tool box unguarded it somehow found its way on to his ute. He had over 100 tool boxes in his house and shed when the coppers carried out the raid. After the raid both he and his brother were named on the 'name and shame' list on the internet, he was named for receiving and his brother was named for stealing. Both no longer work in that industry, they have been blacklisted. Why did he tell me about the initial firearms, because he is a male and likes to boast. I just pretended I had not heard the remark, I let it go through to the keeper and did not reply to it. He did not mention the second raid to me but the guy in a wheel chair who lives directly opposite his house and can see directly into his drive and house also saw the rifles being carried out. He had told this neighbour that he had been charged with receiving and not stealing and that there was a difference.

The incident with your brother was truly terrifying. How many people have been shot because the _ unloaded firearm _had a bullet in the chamber or was actually loaded. I can fully understand that you are still not reassured by your mother's comments that the rifle was not loaded


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Grossly unsettling to have an arsenal of weapons stowed right next door. Was the man a hunter? Did he ever tell you what he used the firearms for?
> 
> I remember as a kid my father and older brother (later with my twin brother), used to go rabbit shooting. One day after school, I was watching TV and felt something against the back of my head. I instinctively whipped around with my left arm raised, pushing the barrel of my older brothers .22 caliber rifle away from me. At that instant, my mother saw what was happening, grabbed my twin brother and the gun and took both of them outside. Next thing I know, brother is in bed without dinner and I never saw the rifle again. My mother told me the rifle wasn't loaded but now as an adult, that is not reassuring. My twin was mucking around as kids do however that bloody rifle should never have been in a place where we kids could access it.


Your story sends chills down my spine, Wombat. I remember a similar near-miss when I was a child: late one night my father woke up and heard someone bumping around in our garbage. He immediately grabbed the loaded handgun that was always under his pillow [I know--sleeping on top of loaded gun--very bright!], ran out to confront the prowler, and almost pulled the trigger when the guy didn't respond. Turns out it was a drunken neighbor who'd bumbled into the wrong garage, and my father almost killed him.

As in your family, the firearm disappeared after that incident. Thank goodness!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Grossly unsettling to have an arsenal of weapons stowed right next door. Was the man a hunter? Did he ever tell you what he used the firearms for?
> 
> I remember as a kid my father and older brother (later with my twin brother), used to go rabbit shooting. One day after school, I was watching TV and felt something against the back of my head. I instinctively whipped around with my left arm raised, pushing the barrel of my older brothers .22 caliber rifle away from me. At that instant, my mother saw what was happening, grabbed my twin brother and the gun and took both of them outside. Next thing I know, brother is in bed without dinner and I never saw the rifle again. My mother told me the rifle wasn't loaded but now as an adult, that is not reassuring. My twin was mucking around as kids do however that bloody rifle should never have been in a place where we kids could access it.


The worst I ever did to my twin brother was to bite him in the playpen because I wanted to hold the Humpty Dumpty doll.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Grossly unsettling to have an arsenal of weapons stowed right next door. Was the man a hunter? Did he ever tell you what he used the firearms for?
> 
> I remember as a kid my father and older brother (later with my twin brother), used to go rabbit shooting. One day after school, I was watching TV and felt something against the back of my head. I instinctively whipped around with my left arm raised, pushing the barrel of my older brothers .22 caliber rifle away from me. At that instant, my mother saw what was happening, grabbed my twin brother and the gun and took both of them outside. Next thing I know, brother is in bed without dinner and I never saw the rifle again. My mother told me the rifle wasn't loaded but now as an adult, that is not reassuring. My twin was mucking around as kids do however that bloody rifle should never have been in a place where we kids could access it.


The following video is highly recommended: * A hilarious Australian stand-up comic explains what U.S. gun laws look like to the rest of the world *
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?tid=trending_strip_3


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The following video is highly recommended: * A hilarious Australian stand-up comic explains what U.S. gun laws look like to the rest of the world *
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?tid=trending_strip_3


Thanks for the link, I love the video. It is so true from an Aussie perspective. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GUNS:
I would be perfectly fine with providing Gun Nuts with a Park to which they can take old pots and pans and shoot away to get their strange frustrations out. Leave the Guns there (make it a Club) and keep the rest of us safe and their own families as well. No more children being killed by "un-loaded" Guns.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The following video is highly recommended: * A hilarious Australian stand-up comic explains what U.S. gun laws look like to the rest of the world *
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?tid=trending_strip_3


PoorPurl
Thank you. I enjoyed it.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Your story sends chills down my spine, Wombat. I remember a similar near-miss when I was a child: late one night my father woke up and heard someone bumping around in our garbage. He immediately grabbed the loaded handgun that was always under his pillow [I know--sleeping on top of loaded gun--very bright!], ran out to confront the prowler, and almost pulled the trigger when the guy didn't respond. Turns out it was a drunken neighbor who'd bumbled into the wrong garage, and my father almost killed him.
> 
> As in your family, the firearm disappeared after that incident. Thank goodness!


Phew, that was a close call! :shock:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> The worst I ever did to my twin brother was to bite him in the playpen because I wanted to hold the Humpty Dumpty doll.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The following video is highly recommended: * A hilarious Australian stand-up comic explains what U.S. gun laws look like to the rest of the world *
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?tid=trending_strip_3


Very funny indeed! The audience were very cool about it. I like that.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

This is troubling. Apparently we're the next 'dinosaurs.'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-20/sixth-mass-extinction-impact-humans-study-says/6560700


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> No, he was not a hunter. He just likes collecting things; anything that is not screwed down seems to find its way to his property, you would be amazed at what he has stacked around his property. That is why he and his brother were charged with the stealing and receiving charges in 2004, they were nicking from building sites. He was employed as a roofing tradesman on various building sites, mainly shopping centres, etc. If another workman left his tool box unguarded it somehow found its way on to his ute. He had over 100 tool boxes in his house and shed when the coppers carried out the raid. After the raid both he and his brother were named on the 'name and shame' list on the internet, he was named for receiving and his brother was named for stealing. Both no longer work in that industry, they have been blacklisted. Why did he tell me about the initial firearms, because he is a male and likes to boast. I just pretended I had not heard the remark, I let it go through to the keeper and did not reply to it. He did not mention the second raid to me but the guy in a wheel chair who lives directly opposite his house and can see directly into his drive and house also saw the rifles being carried out. He had told this neighbour that he had been charged with receiving and not stealing and that there was a difference.
> 
> The incident with your brother was truly terrifying. How many people have been shot because the _ unloaded firearm _had a bullet in the chamber or was actually loaded. I can fully understand that you are still not reassured by your mother's comments that the rifle was not loaded


Some people just do not get it. They know their criminality is highly likely to attract police attention yet they continue. It's a type of arrogance that is not only frightening, it almost seems contagious!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Just_Beachy said:


> The problem here is that we've got to stop pretending that Dylann Roof's racism was unusual, that it wasn't all too common.
> 
> His 'friends' are now coming out and admitting he said things that anyone in a less racist culture would've immediately recognized as a red flag. But not in certain circles, and those circles are NOT atypical. It didn't stand out. It was just a "conservative thing" that his friends dismissed as kind of typical for white dudes in the South. No one saw it as unusual; no one identified red flags until after the fact.
> 
> ...


-----
well said Beachy!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Just_Beachy said:


> The problem here is that we've got to stop pretending that Dylann Roof's racism was unusual, that it wasn't all too common.
> 
> His 'friends' are now coming out and admitting he said things that anyone in a less racist culture would've immediately recognized as a red flag. But not in certain circles, and those circles are NOT atypical. It didn't stand out. It was just a "conservative thing" that his friends dismissed as kind of typical for white dudes in the South. No one saw it as unusual; no one identified red flags until after the fact.
> 
> ...


Just_Beachy
I shall NEVER understand the mindset of so many southerners. And now there needs to be a debate about the confederate Flag coming down? Give me a break. It should have disappeared long, long ago. It simply is an ugly piece of Cloth reminding us of an ugly past.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Just_Beachy
> I shall NEVER understand the mindset of so many southerners. And now there needs to be a debate about the confederate Flag coming down? Give me a break. It should have disappeared long, long ago. It simply is an ugly piece of Cloth reminding us of an ugly past.


Southern Schmata


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The following video is highly recommended: * A hilarious Australian stand-up comic explains what U.S. gun laws look like to the rest of the world *
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?tid=trending_strip_3


Thanks for the link, Purl. He was very funny and he described the gun mania problem in the U.S. perfectly.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for your eloquence.



Just_Beachy said:


> The problem here is that we've got to stop pretending that Dylann Roof's racism was unusual, that it wasn't all too common.
> 
> His 'friends' are now coming out and admitting he said things that anyone in a less racist culture would've immediately recognized as a red flag. But not in certain circles, and those circles are NOT atypical. It didn't stand out. It was just a "conservative thing" that his friends dismissed as kind of typical for white dudes in the South. No one saw it as unusual; no one identified red flags until after the fact.
> 
> ...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> No, he was not a hunter. He just likes collecting things; anything that is not screwed down seems to find its way to his property, you would be amazed at what he has stacked around his property. That is why he and his brother were charged with the stealing and receiving charges in 2004, they were nicking from building sites. He was employed as a roofing tradesman on various building sites, mainly shopping centres, etc. If another workman left his tool box unguarded it somehow found its way on to his ute. He had over 100 tool boxes in his house and shed when the coppers carried out the raid. After the raid both he and his brother were named on the 'name and shame' list on the internet, he was named for receiving and his brother was named for stealing. Both no longer work in that industry, they have been blacklisted. Why did he tell me about the initial firearms, because he is a male and likes to boast. I just pretended I had not heard the remark, I let it go through to the keeper and did not reply to it. He did not mention the second raid to me but the guy in a wheel chair who lives directly opposite his house and can see directly into his drive and house also saw the rifles being carried out. He had told this neighbour that he had been charged with receiving and not stealing and that there was a difference.
> 
> The incident with your brother was truly terrifying. How many people have been shot because the _ unloaded firearm _had a bullet in the chamber or was actually loaded. I can fully understand that you are still not reassured by your mother's comments that the rifle was not loaded


What a neighbor. One of those people who "finds" stuff that has not really been lost.

And the incident with the brother with the gun! That is so scary that if it were my brother I would probably never trust him again. Sure he was being a stupid kid, but that is the kind of stupid you stay as far away from as you can.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Just_Beachy said:


> The problem here is that we've got to stop pretending that Dylann Roof's racism was unusual, that it wasn't all too common.
> 
> His 'friends' are now coming out and admitting he said things that anyone in a less racist culture would've immediately recognized as a red flag. But not in certain circles, and those circles are NOT atypical. It didn't stand out. It was just a "conservative thing" that his friends dismissed as kind of typical for white dudes in the South. No one saw it as unusual; no one identified red flags until after the fact.
> 
> ...


You hit that nail on its head. Some of the rhetoric that has hit us here makes me glad we are anonymous to one another. There are a couple of people who visit and post their phony baloney whom I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley with their little jewel encrusted pink Uzis.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

And the person who equated it to the Nazi flag made a good analogy. There are still anti-Semites around who would continue the annihilation the evil one started. But society was appalled enough that their flag cannot fly in civilized society.

Okay, people recognize that what the Nazis did was totally inhuman and unacceptable. But if it had happened to Black people would it have been as universally condemned? The injustices against people born with more melanin in their skin make up are horrible and should be soundly and roundly condemned by any civilized people. It should not be defended by the proliferation of the symbol of their oppression. History shmistory. It is a symbol of one of the biggest blots against humanity in the history of this country. 


Huckleberry said:


> Just_Beachy
> I shall NEVER understand the mindset of so many southerners. And now there needs to be a debate about the confederate Flag coming down? Give me a break. It should have disappeared long, long ago. It simply is an ugly piece of Cloth reminding us of an ugly past.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm all for anonymous too, as a way to start. I have found dear friends at KP that I trust completely. No doubt we've all passed tests over time that helped reassure us all over time. Casual friends are good too.

It's a strange and dangerous world we live in. "A dark alley with their jewel-encrusted pink Uzis." Thanks for the image, Marilyn.



MarilynKnits said:


> You hit that nail on its head. Some of the rhetoric that has hit us here makes me glad we are anonymous to one another. There are a couple of people who visit and post their phony baloney whom I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley with their little jewel encrusted pink Uzis.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Southern Schmata


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

When are we taking a look at the Father of the Murderer Roof? Giving a High School drop-out and unemployed mentally undernourished Kid a Gun for his Birthday? Books and a kick back into any School would have been appropriate. Looks like Guns are more important than an education for this Father. I hear you, the Kid is 21 but what does that have to do with proper guidance?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


cookiequeen
does anyone - not a Southerner - really understand that? I sure don't.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Southern Schmata


SQM I agree with what you said about Chicago, when one wants to get a gun they will, regardless of the laws. Gangs do not care about laws. It is never mention on TV, except when the numbers climb high enough. Which even then may not be mention.

There is good and bad in every country. Britain when reported a follower of Issi beheaded a solider on the street with a knife. When one wants to kill they will kill.

PP as to the joke about the south or southern's should not have been said. Not ever Southern believed in slavery . To blame the southerner's as a whole doing so is wrong. History has only shown the bad parts of the south and the civil war. You do have to look for it in books that are not mention at all in the history of the south.
The south suffered worst then the north ever did. Poor farmers had their goods taken from them. Animals ect. and then houses burnt to the ground. You do not hear of that. But you show your prejudice by even saying that. Did you know that even northern's had slaves? Not just blacks, but Irish ect. 
Do you really think that people in the North are not Racist? You all have mention that we up north are.

Do you understand that the Flag that the south raise is not just meant to be about racist . The south lost more then the north ever did. It is a symbol of the lost they suffer to many. Do I believe it should be shown no not any more then the Nazi cross. But I can also understand why it is done.

I do not think gun control will ever work as if one wants to kill they will find a gun. All you have to do is look at how many illige gun come in from Mexico.

I do not know the way this young man was brought up. But it seems not in the way we would want our children to be. There is no moral compass in this nation or other nations any more. 
We all know that it has grown worst with every day that passes.

My husband owns guns, he has never used them other then to hunt. He never allowed his sons to use them.His son's never wanted too. Not every person who owns guns are out to kill someone.

My youngest son now has a hand gun. Why because he lives in a larger city. His house was broken into and much was stolen that he work hard for. He has it for his own and family protection. My father owned guns, He taught my brother and I how to use them and to respect what they could do. 
I for one never used one after my father took me clay pigeon shooting. Pulled the trigger and landed on my bottom.

I have not read everything that has been going on on this site. But was curious to see what would be said about this latest shooting. Now am back to unread it again.

Should also add I did not come on here to ague just wanted to say how I felt .


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Yarnie. Happy Summer.

The South brought their misery onto themselves. I have as much sympathy for them as I did for the Germans after WW2. Both people happily saluted their rag flags.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

It drives me crazy that people keep referring to Roof as a kid. Because he isn't, he's an adult at 21. Our society keeps upping the age for adulthood for some reason. People in their mid and even upper 20's are referred to as kids as well. And don't give me that crap about "their brains aren't developed yet." This is a recent construct that people have bought into.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> SQM I agree with what you said about Chicago, when one wants to get a gun they will, regardless of the laws. Gangs do not care about laws. It is never mention on TV, except when the numbers climb high enough. Which even then may not be mention.
> 
> There is good and bad in every country. Britain when reported a follower of Issi beheaded a solider on the street with a knife. When one wants to kill they will kill.
> 
> ...


--------
Yarnie - I am answering you about how I feel , and I know many Americans feel-----what about what that flag meant to the slaves and now their descendants.

They know, as long as it is flying that racism is still part of their lives. What must it be like to walk in Charleston and see that flag flying. Seeing it on car licenses all over Charleston or anywhere in America, seeing it flying in windows seeing it sewn on jackets and on and on.

Each time it is shown or seen, it brings back the fact that their ancestors were raped, beaten, killed (somtimes even in this past 50 years hung from trees) Children taken from their mothers and sold as if they were cattle. That is what the flag represents to them.. The south lost the war. Until that is acknowledged it will always look to the world as if racism is still alive and active - the Germans have outlawed the swastika but the flag is honored down south. The war is over,the South lost.

Everything you say might be true for the white southerners, but no one ever mentions the horrible damage that flag represents to the descendants of the slaves. That is why it is abhorred so much by so many people. You only mention those who were not slaves - many of us are thinking of those who were. How can there ever be peace between the races when the flag that represented the horror that their all those generations lived in, is still flying?.

I had thought of posting my feelings on your thread, but it would not be accepted, and I would be accused of trying to stir. It is a fact though, I hear very very few of those who 
still feel it represents the GOOD things about the south the flag have ever ever mentioned what it must do to those who are descendents of slaves and that it 'isn't racist' - how can it not be racist? It is what it REPRESENTS.

Remember some of those people do not know who their ancestors were, as they were taken from their mothers and sold. What would that do to a person. I really don't think that anyone who loves that flag gives a darn about the insult it is to other Americans who are now free.

I am answering your post. I don't intend to get into an argument, but I have read so much and heard so much about it represents the good things of the South. That might be, but it sure doesn't represent the good things for those whose parents felt the whip on their backs or whose families were broken or whose wives and daughters were 'belongings' and could be taken from their homes and raped and beaten - Isn't that important? It appears not. Obviously many are quite happy that it shows the blacks that they will never be accepted, they will always be 'LESS' than the whites.

That is my opinion, just as you stated yours.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> does anyone - not a Southerner - really understand that? I sure don't.


Schmatta=rag


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> It drives me crazy that people keep referring to Roof as a kid. Because he isn't, he's an adult at 21. Our society keeps upping the age for adulthood for some reason. People in their mid and even upper 20's are referred to as kids as well. And don't give me that crap about "their brains aren't developed yet." This is a recent construct that people have bought into.


sumpleby
so far I have seen nothing about him that speaks of him being an adult.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It may be part of the mind set from before WWII when the military had guns and the general populace didn't, then too many people were rounded up and murdered because of their religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. There were people who thought if the Jews in Poland had guns the Warsaw ghetto would have had a chance to be defended successfully. And that the people of countries that were invaded could have defended themselves as well.
> 
> Perhaps it is that subliminal "memory" that feeds mistrust of a strong central government and an armed government.


Nothing subliminal at all. The fear of "govermint" is a favorite talking point of the ammoholics.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> SQM I agree with what you said about Chicago, when one wants to get a gun they will, regardless of the laws. Gangs do not care about laws. It is never mention on TV, except when the numbers climb high enough. Which even then may not be mention.
> 
> There is good and bad in every country. Britain when reported a follower of Issi beheaded a solider on the street with a knife. When one wants to kill they will kill.
> 
> ...


Yarnie, the south certainly did lose more than the north did, but you must remember that the southern states seceded from the Union and participated in a war that they lost. It is also a fact that not all southerners owned slaves; in fact, most southerners did not. However, the entire region benefitted from the existence of slavery. The economy of the northern states was not based on the idea that it was acceptable to own other human beings. Northerners, including former presidents, owned slaves and it was a very divisive issue leading up to and during the civil war - you know which side defended the practice to the death. You also know that when slaves escaped, they made their way NORTH where there were people who would help them on their road to freedom. Please don't try to misrepresent the actual character of the south when it came to slavery; it was not something hidden or practiced by only a few. The entire culture embraced it. This has left a legacy of racism and bigotry that cannot be denied.

As for guns, I'm personally weary of hearing the weak argument that if a person wants to kill another person they will find a way. That is obvious but it is a straw man argument. When one person can kill 26 human beings in the space of a few minutes, either a gun or a bomb is necessary to accomplish this. High-capacity magazines are not needed for hunting or self-defense; they are intended to kill people. There is no other use for them and they should be outlawed. What we are not talking about is the easy access to guns and the sheer number in our cars, our homes, our backpacks and purses. This absolutely increases the likelihood they will be used either in the heat of the moment or by accident. It creates a paranoid mindset in our law enforcement personnel who are right to be worried that any encounter with a citizen could be an encounter with an ARMED citizen whose mental state is impossible to determine. For every parent who practices and teaches responsible handling of firearms, there are more who either don't know their kid has a gun or are careless or irresponsible themselves. There are simply too many guns in our society. They are neither needed nor beneficial except to the gun manufacturers.

I don't pretend to know the answer to this state of affairs, but I think we need to stop pretending that gun ownership is okay under all circumstances and that anyone who wants to purchase or carry a gun should be able to do so. I also don't believe that guns for recreational use is good. One person's "right" to have fun does NOT outweigh my right to live in a safe environment.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Yarn-it said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm really tired of placating the lies by the NRA.
> 
> ...


Brainwashing by the NRA. Legislators bought and paid for by the NRA.

I'll repeat my oft-repeated belief that ALL LOBBYING must be outlawed. Period. Overturn Citizens United and we will all be pleasantly surprised at how many actual real citizens are against the proliferation of guns in our society. Our voices are being drowned out by money, pure and simple.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Schmatta=rag


In a dialect of South Poland.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Different kind of heat, but anyone who has spent time in Arizona - in the summer - will get a chuckle out of this:


Brad Snyder



YOU KNOW YOU'RE FROM ARIZONA WHEN. . . 
1. You can say Hohokam and no one thinks you're making it up. 

2.You no longer associate rivers or bridges with water. 


3.You know that a "swamp cooler" is not a happy hour drink. 

4.You can contemplate a high temperature of 120 degrees as "not all that bad, after all it's a dry heat." 

5.You know that you can make sun tea outside faster than instant tea in your microwave. 

6.You have to run your air conditioner in the middle of winter so that you can use your fireplace. 

7.The water coming from the "cold" tap is hotter than that from the hot" tap. 

8.You can correctly pronounce the following words: "Saguaro", "Tempe", "Gila Bend", "San Xavier del Bac", "Canyon de Chelly", "Mogollon Rim", "Cholla", and "Tlaquepacque", "Ajo". 

9.It's noon on a weekday in July, kids are on summer vacation, and not one single person is moving on the streets. 

10.Hot air balloons can't fly because the air outside is hotter than the air inside. 

11.You buy salsa by the gallon. 

12.Your Christmas decorations include a half a yard of sand and 100 paper bags. 

13.You think someone driving while wearing oven mitts is clever. 

14.Most of the restaurants in your town have the first name "El" or "Los." 

15.You think six tons of crushed rock makes a beautiful yard. 

16.You can say 115 degrees without fainting. 

17.Vehicles with open windows have the right-of-way in the summer. 

18.People break out coats when the temperature drops below 70. 

19.You discover, in July, it only takes two fingers to drive your car. 

20.The pool can be warmer than you are. 

21.You realize Valley Fever isn't a disco dance. 

22.People with black cars or have black upholstery in their car are automatically assumed to be from out-of-state or nuts. 

23.You know better than to get into a car/truck with leather seats if you're wearing shorts.

24.Announcements for Fourth of July events always end with "in case of monsoon..." 

25.You have to explain to out-of-staters why there is no daylight savings time 

26.You can say "haboob" without giggling.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Yarn-it said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm really tired of placating the lies by the NRA.
> 
> ...


Yarn-it
Thank you. Well said.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Different kind of heat, but anyone who has spent time in Arizona - in the summer - will get a chuckle out of this:
> 
> Brad Snyder
> 
> ...


DGreen
Thank you for the lesson. Very cute and oh so true. What surprised me when I visited there for the first time was that no-one wore a Hat or used an Umbrella to protect themselves from the awful hot Sun. Got my cheeks burned on leather seats and dancing fingers trying to hold on to the Steering Wheel. Even the coolest place was too hot for my comfort. Got to see the ugliest legs in the shortest attire. Mirrors seemed to be a rarity. I deducted that most folks were too old to see well anyway. It's another way of Life for sure. Also noticed that the curbs are much higher than elsewhere to keep folks from "jumping" them all too often. I am describing the Tucson area. Love Mt. Lemmon but that is about it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Yarnie. Happy Summer.
> 
> The South brought their misery onto themselves. I have as much sympathy for them as I did for the Germans after WW2. Both people happily saluted their rag flags.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you for the lesson. Very cute and oh so true. What surprised me when I visited there for the first time was that no-one wore a Hat or used an Umbrella to protect themselves from the awful hot Sun. Got my cheeks burned on leather seats and dancing fingers trying to hold on to the Steering Wheel. Even the coolest place was too hot for my comfort. Got to see the ugliest legs in the shortest attire. Mirrors seemed to be a rarity. I deducted that most folks were too old to see well anyway. It's another way of Life for sure. Also noticed that the curbs are much higher than elsewhere to keep folks from "jumping" them all too often. I am describing the Tucson area. Love Mt. Lemmon but that is about it.


Huck, did you know that Tucson is actually cooler than Phoenix? A few degrees...but when it's 110 or more, a few degrees makes a difference.

That is why, after about 50 summers in the Phoenix area, hubby and I sold our house and moved to 5,000 ft. elevation and out of the brutal, unrelenting heat of Phoenix summers.

This week in Phoenix it's been about 115 for several days. We are about 20 degrees cooler as a rule. 95 is plenty hot for me - though it truly is a dry heat. Humidity right now is only 17% at my house. Could be worse. And we are not plagued by mosquitoes!

My favorite memory of living in the heat is driving in the summer and carefully coming to a halt at stop lights so the shade from a light pole would shade my face from the sun. Seriously.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Quite right. It represents a lack of empathy that is unfathomable. The world should be evolving, but as long as that symbol of subjugation is accepted by citizens of this country we have no credibility to the rest of the world when we decry present forms of slavery. It undermines the honor of all the rest of us.



Designer1234 said:


> --------
> Yarnie - I am answering you about how I feel , and I know many Americans feel-----what about what that flag meant to the slaves and now their descendants.
> 
> They know, as long as it is flying that racism is still part of their lives. What must it be like to walk in Charleston and see that flag flying. Seeing it on car licenses all over Charleston or anywhere in America, seeing it flying in windows seeing it sewn on jackets and on and on.
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Brainwashing by the NRA. Legislators bought and paid for by the NRA.
> 
> I'll repeat my oft-repeated belief that ALL LOBBYING must be outlawed. Period. Overturn Citizens United and we will all be pleasantly surprised at how many actual real citizens are against the proliferation of guns in our society. Our voices are being drowned out by money, pure and simple.


It's all about the money and as you so rightly say we have to get money out of politics and we can then make the big turn in the right direction. :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Quite right. It represents a lack of empathy that is unfathomable. The world should be evolving, but as long as that symbol of subjugation is accepted by citizens of this country we have no credibility to the rest of the world when we decry present forms of slavery. It undermines the honor of all the rest of us.


We need to remember that the Confederacy WAS formed to protect slave owners and the Civil War WAS about slavery.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Yarn-it said:


> Well said.
> 
> Also, there's this pretense that Chicago has 'strict' gun laws. Strict compared to what town? They were never sufficiently strict.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Huck, did you know that Tucson is actually cooler than Phoenix? A few degrees...but when it's 110 or more, a few degrees makes a difference.
> 
> That is why, after about 50 summers in the Phoenix area, hubby and I sold our house and moved to 5,000 ft. elevation and out of the brutal, unrelenting heat of Phoenix summers.
> 
> ...


I would love to visit and then I am sure I would be happy to go home again to the cool of the Midwest.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would love to visit and then I am sure I would be happy to go home again to the cool of the Midwest.


Visit in the winter. Much nicer. We live here in Arizona because kids can ride their new bicycles on Christmas, when it's 72 degrees and you can pick oranges off the trees in the back yard.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Quite right. It represents a lack of empathy that is unfathomable. The world should be evolving, but as long as that symbol of subjugation is accepted by citizens of this country we have no credibility to the rest of the world when we decry present forms of slavery. It undermines the honor of all the rest of us.


So true and we also dishonor the soldiers, black and white who fought for the Union and the sacrifices they made. All Americans should want the flag of treason and tyranny to never be on public display anywhere. The Confederacy lost and they must accept it so the U.S. can be truly united under the Stars and Stripes.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So true and we also dishonor the soldiers, black and white who fought for the Union and the sacrifices they made. All Americans should want the flag of treason and tyranny to never be on public display anywhere. The confederacy lost and they must accept it so the U.S. can be truly united under the Stars and Stripes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So true and we also dishonor the soldiers, black and white who fought for the Union and the sacrifices they made. All Americans should want the flag of treason and tyranny to never be on public display anywhere. The confederacy lost and they must accept it so the U.S. can be truly united under the Stars and Stripes.


The lack of empathy extends far beyond flying their stupid flag.

Remember, a lot of conservative republican ideas and ideals spring from the same people and many of those ideas share the same lack of empathy. They don't need a flag to rally behind, just the overarching banner of the republican party which is strong among the same people who fly the confederate flag.

Cuts to food stamps
Refusal to support and care for veterans
Knee-jerk support for police who kill
Tax cuts for the rich on the backs of the poor
Cuts to education
Religious bigotry
Religious-backed invasions of women's health and bodies
Hatred of Obamacare


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The lack of empathy extends far beyond flying their stupid flag.
> 
> Remember, a lot of conservative republican ideas and ideals spring from the same people and many of those ideas share the same lack of empathy. They don't need a flag to rally behind, just the overarching banner of the republican party which is strong among the same people who fly the confederate flag.
> 
> ...


Not to mention the hate of Obama!
:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Schmatta=rag


Ha Ha. The goy tells the Jew.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yarn-it said:


> Well said.
> 
> Also, there's this pretense that Chicago has 'strict' gun laws. Strict compared to what town? They were never sufficiently strict.
> 
> ...


I just spoke to a retired Chgo cop today and he told me that the gun laws here are strict but no one cares to enforcement them. So the south and west sides are a gun free-for-all.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> In a dialect of South Poland.


I thought it was a 7th Ave. word. Totally and completely homesick.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Huck, did you know that Tucson is actually cooler than Phoenix? A few degrees...but when it's 110 or more, a few degrees makes a difference.
> 
> That is why, after about 50 summers in the Phoenix area, hubby and I sold our house and moved to 5,000 ft. elevation and out of the brutal, unrelenting heat of Phoenix summers.
> 
> ...


DGreen
brutal for me is over 80 degrees. Whenever we visit there and have to drive we look for streets with at least a tree here and there to get some shade. Up in the Hills it is very comfortable and pretty but found the Land to be rather expensive compared to other areas. Whenever it gets over 80 here we avoid going outside. We keep the house at about 67 year round. Luckily we both like it that way.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I thought it was a 7th Ave. word. Totally and completely homesick.


Where do you think 7th Ave. picked it up? From their mothers, who used shmattas for cleaning.

Here's a gift for you:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Where do you think 7th Ave. picked it up? From their mothers, who used shmattas for cleaning.
> 
> Here's a gift for you:
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> OMG!!!!!!!! I made a terrible mistake!!!!!!!! I hate it here. I don't belong. I miss having an accent. I need help. Help! Help!


Oh, well.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, well.


Ha Ha. That is such an existential response to my new plight. Love it. Ha Ha on me!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> When are we taking a look at the Father of the Murderer Roof? Giving a High School drop-out and unemployed mentally undernourished Kid a Gun for his Birthday? Books and a kick back into any School would have been appropriate. Looks like Guns are more important than an education for this Father. I hear you, the Kid is 21 but what does that have to do with proper guidance?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: IMHO Guns only make the outcome of confrontation more violent.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've come to look at planned murders (done by someone over 18 years of age and of average IQ) as follows. Some crimes are so heinous that the act(s) deserve to be punished. 

I'm not sure that our concept of capital punishment fits the bill anymore. It takes too long and costs too much. Treat and release non-violent criminals, keeping prison space for those who deserve it. 

Losing a job, a spouse, being battered as a child....has no significance in justice. These people deserve no attention until the case is decided, and even then for just a brief time. They are gone from memory in infamy.

Just my personal opinion, at the moment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Thank you.



Designer1234 said:


> --------
> Yarnie - I am answering you about how I feel , and I know many Americans feel-----what about what that flag meant to the slaves and now their descendants.
> 
> They know, as long as it is flying that racism is still part of their lives. What must it be like to walk in Charleston and see that flag flying. Seeing it on car licenses all over Charleston or anywhere in America, seeing it flying in windows seeing it sewn on jackets and on and on.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yarn-it said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I'm really tired of placating the lies by the NRA.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Brainwashing by the NRA. Legislators bought and paid for by the NRA.
> 
> I'll repeat my oft-repeated belief that ALL LOBBYING must be outlawed. Period. Overturn Citizens United and we will all be pleasantly surprised at how many actual real citizens are against the proliferation of guns in our society. Our voices are being drowned out by money, pure and simple.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Different kind of heat, but anyone who has spent time in Arizona - in the summer - will get a chuckle out of this:
> 
> Brad Snyder
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: True, not just funny.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I will personally swear to see people lined up in the shade of a telephone pole while waiting for the bus. No hats but shade of any kind is highly prized.



Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> Thank you for the lesson. Very cute and oh so true. What surprised me when I visited there for the first time was that no-one wore a Hat or used an Umbrella to protect themselves from the awful hot Sun. Got my cheeks burned on leather seats and dancing fingers trying to hold on to the Steering Wheel. Even the coolest place was too hot for my comfort. Got to see the ugliest legs in the shortest attire. Mirrors seemed to be a rarity. I deducted that most folks were too old to see well anyway. It's another way of Life for sure. Also noticed that the curbs are much higher than elsewhere to keep folks from "jumping" them all too often. I am describing the Tucson area. Love Mt. Lemmon but that is about it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Huck, did you know that Tucson is actually cooler than Phoenix? A few degrees...but when it's 110 or more, a few degrees makes a difference.
> 
> That is why, after about 50 summers in the Phoenix area, hubby and I sold our house and moved to 5,000 ft. elevation and out of the brutal, unrelenting heat of Phoenix summers.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

These guys make me physically sick.



DGreen said:


> We need to remember that the Confederacy WAS formed to protect slave owners and the Civil War WAS about slavery.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would love to visit and then I am sure I would be happy to go home again to the cool of the Midwest.


Come in February and you won't be so quick to go home. hugs


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

After Thanksgiving dinner it's lovely to go for a stroll without a coat.



DGreen said:


> Visit in the winter. Much nicer. We live here in Arizona because kids can ride their new bicycles on Christmas, when it's 72 degrees and you can pick oranges off the trees in the back yard.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So true and we also dishonor the soldiers, black and white who fought for the Union and the sacrifices they made. All Americans should want the flag of treason and tyranny to never be on public display anywhere. The Confederacy lost and they must accept it so the U.S. can be truly united under the Stars and Stripes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put, Cheeks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> The lack of empathy extends far beyond flying their stupid flag.
> 
> Remember, a lot of conservative republican ideas and ideals spring from the same people and many of those ideas share the same lack of empathy. They don't need a flag to rally behind, just the overarching banner of the republican party which is strong among the same people who fly the confederate flag.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've come to look at planned murders (done by someone over 18 years of age and of average IQ) as follows. Some crimes are so heinous that the act(s) deserve to be punished.
> 
> I'm not sure that our concept of capital punishment fits the bill anymore. It takes too long and costs too much. Treat and release non-violent criminals, keeping prison space for those who deserve it.
> 
> ...


I agree..


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I agree..


I love your emoticons.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I love your emoticons.


Shh, but I stole them from someone else here on kp, I think it was Shirley, but I know she will forgive me for my blatant plagiarism.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And the incident with the brother with the gun! That is so scary that if it were my brother I would probably never trust him again. Sure he was being a stupid kid, but that is the kind of stupid you stay as far away from as you can.


Fortunately, I allowed my better judgement to dictate my feelings for my brother after that event. He was never, and never has been a violent person. He served in the Royal Australian Air Force for 9 years. He traveled the world extensively for 6 years, living and working in Canada, the U.S., and Japan. He married a beautiful and loving Japanese woman and they now have 2 exceptional humans beings as a result of their union. He now makes prosthetic limbs for people who have lost them. He is a man I much admire.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's the Musketeers around here.



EveMCooke said:


> Shh, but I stole them from someone else here on kp, I think it was Shirley, but I know she will forgive me for my blatant plagiarism.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

I read this and my boiler nearly burst! All I can say is a few have it good:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-u-s-ceos-make-300-times-what-workers-earn/


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I read this and my boiler nearly burst! All I can say is a few have it good:
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-u-s-ceos-make-300-times-what-workers-earn/


No one can spend that kind of money except to make even MORE money. It's not about value or worth, it's about ego and power.

America, that's where YOUR raises and benefits are going.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> No one can spend that kind of money except to make even MORE money. It's not about value or worth, it's about ego and power.
> 
> America, that's where YOUR raises and benefits are going.


Bright Green - you brightened up my day with your outrageous avatar. Whenever I have seen the Ostrich post, I tell him that he looks so school marmish. You have cooled off things in the world with this this cool avatar. You are getting a morning point for this audacious avatar!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> No one can spend that kind of money except to make even MORE money. It's not about value or worth, it's about ego and power.
> 
> America, that's where YOUR raises and benefits are going.


This is the Law of the Jungle. The stronger (more wealthy, more well-connected, more ruthless, less influenced by conscience or morality) get what they want, including what belongs to the weaker. They do it because they can, not because they need to.

The US has been called a nation of laws, but that's the only law that's invariably in effect these days.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Bright Green - you brightened up my day with your outrageous avatar. Whenever I have seen the Ostrich post, I tell him that he looks so school marmish. You have cooled off things in the world with this this cool avatar. You are getting a morning point for this audacious avatar!


Thanks, SQM!

Saturday we took the grandchildren (10 and 8) to a local produce farm run by two of the most warm-hearted and outgoing people I have ever met. The photo is actually an emu, and the owner opened the gate and stood guard so I could get a good photo without the chain-link fence obscuring my view. They also have a variety of other exotic fowl, including the most gorgeous pheasant I have ever seen, plus turkeys, chickens, ducks and quail and some Asian birds whose names I forgot immediately. We bought turkey, duck and chicken eggs and the owner threw in about 2 dozen quail eggs which we cooked for breakfast. They were about the size of a half-dollar in the skillet and looked so tiny next to the turkey eggs (huge).

The farm has lush gardens and a large oak tree festooned with hummingbird feeders. They invited us to sit in their gazebo while the hummers we had startled returned to feed. There were about a hundred hummingbirds darting around, putting on a fantastic show for the boys, whose city life gives them little opportunity to see where their food comes from. It was a wonderful outing.

And I love the emus with their funny faces!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, SQM!
> 
> Saturday we took the grandchildren (10 and 8) to a local produce farm run by two of the most warm-hearted and outgoing people I have ever met. The photo is actually an emu, and the owner opened the gate and stood guard so I could get a good photo without the chain-link fence obscuring my view. They also have a variety of other exotic fowl, including the most gorgeous pheasant I have ever seen, plus turkeys, chickens, ducks and quail and some Asian birds whose names I forgot immediately. We bought turkey, duck and chicken eggs and the owner threw in about 2 dozen quail eggs which we cooked for breakfast. They were about the size of a half-dollar in the skillet and looked so tiny next to the turkey eggs (huge).
> 
> ...


Love your choice of avatar. Did you know that old man emu is one of our Aussie fauna emblems and is on our National Coat of Arms?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shh, but I stole them from someone else here on kp, I think it was Shirley, but I know she will forgive me for my blatant plagiarism.


I learned mine from Purl so she is likely the one who taught you too. Thank you in case it was me. S


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Yarnie, the south certainly did lose more than the north did, but you must remember that the southern states seceded from the Union and participated in a war that they lost. It is also a fact that not all southerners owned slaves; in fact, most southerners did not. However, the entire region benefitted from the existence of slavery. The economy of the northern states was not based on the idea that it was acceptable to own other human beings. Northerners, including former presidents, owned slaves and it was a very divisive issue leading up to and during the civil war - you know which side defended the practice to the death. You also know that when slaves escaped, they made their way NORTH where there were people who would help them on their road to freedom. Please don't try to misrepresent the actual character of the south when it came to slavery; it was not something hidden or practiced by only a few. The entire culture embraced it. This has left a legacy of racism and bigotry that cannot be denied.
> 
> As for guns, I'm personally weary of hearing the weak argument that if a person wants to kill another person they will find a way. That is obvious but it is a straw man argument. When one person can kill 26 human beings in the space of a few minutes, either a gun or a bomb is necessary to accomplish this. High-capacity magazines are not needed for hunting or self-defense; they are intended to kill people. There is no other use for them and they should be outlawed. What we are not talking about is the easy access to guns and the sheer number in our cars, our homes, our backpacks and purses. This absolutely increases the likelihood they will be used either in the heat of the moment or by accident. It creates a paranoid mindset in our law enforcement personnel who are right to be worried that any encounter with a citizen could be an encounter with an ARMED citizen whose mental state is impossible to determine. For every parent who practices and teaches responsible handling of firearms, there are more who either don't know their kid has a gun or are careless or irresponsible themselves. There are simply too many guns in our society. They are neither needed nor beneficial except to the gun manufacturers.
> 
> I don't pretend to know the answer to this state of affairs, but I think we need to stop pretending that gun ownership is okay under all circumstances and that anyone who wants to purchase or carry a gun should be able to do so. I also don't believe that guns for recreational use is good. One person's "right" to have fun does NOT outweigh my right to live in a safe environment.


With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:



> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


With so many states passing Stand Your Ground laws or allowing people to bring guns openly into public places like schools, malls, and (holding my breath) bars, I don't see where we have "all those gun laws" you refer to. If we didn't have an oversupply of guns in this country, maybe the laws could be enforced. But there are laws that do not allow the government to keep records on the number of guns manufactured, on private sales of guns, or even on the numbers of shooting deaths.

I'm all in favor of trying to solve problems with mental health programs, but the solutions are not immediate. Just as people in AA often continue to drink, patients with mental health problems will continue the behavior they're being treated for. And too many aren't getting treatment at all. These are all people who can get guns and have ideas about how to use them. How many children can they kill before they're given the appropriate treatment? And how many drunks with legally obtained will use them to settle fights?

And didn't you post essentially the same message a couple of days ago?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Fortunately, I allowed my better judgement to dictate my feelings for my brother after that event. He was never, and never has been a violent person. He served in the Royal Australian Air Force for 9 years. He traveled the world extensively for 6 years, living and working in Canada, the U.S., and Japan. He married a beautiful and loving Japanese woman and they now have 2 exceptional humans beings as a result of their union. He now makes prosthetic limbs for people who have lost them. He is a man I much admire.


That is a relief to know. Glad for him and the rest of your family that he grew up to be an adult who can walk with his head held high.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


In our travels we have seen them sold openly in Walmart stores in a number of states. At used tool auctions we have seen ads for gun sales in states other than ours where the laws are strong. Too many places where people can buy them legally with an eye wink at cursory background checks.

Sure there are many illegal sales. In states like ours where the law is strong by people who bought them legally in other states where they are sold like car tires and towels.

If gun laws didn't change after Sandy Hook, after Littleton, and on and on, the gun lobby still has disproportionate influence which overwhelms common sense. Money and power and that cold metal phallic symbol that shows that men are men. Except, of course, for the real men who don't need crutches like that to know who they are.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Love your choice of avatar. Did you know that old man emu is one of our Aussie fauna emblems and is on our National Coat of Arms?


I did not know that, but I'm glad I chose the emu because I am fond of all things Aussie!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


OK. Seems like we have been fighting crime for a very long time with limited success, though crime is actually down. Any new ideas?

(Please don't talk about getting tough on drugs - the war on drugs has been a dismal, expensive and counter-productive endeavor.)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> No one can spend that kind of money except to make even MORE money. It's not about value or worth, it's about ego and power.
> 
> America, that's where YOUR raises and benefits are going.


DGreen
High time that CEO's Salaries and Benefits are getting a ceiling. Some advanced countries have gone to it already in order to maintain some balance and prevent Revolutions. People will endure so much until their collar bursts and they start marching on those who have dictated their ill fate. American Greed is getting out of bounds.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

YarnIt_All said:


> Agreed, the claims that there are 'all these gun laws" is pretty much a myth. Many of those laws that are written and passed are usually done knowing there's a loophole somewhere that makes the law impotent from the git go.


YarnIt_All
we need ordinary people start writing laws and leave the Lawyers out of it. They have messed with us too much already. Plain language from plain folks leaves nothing for Lawyers to screw around with.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> YarnIt_All
> we need ordinary people start writing laws and leave the Lawyers out of it. They have messed with us too much already. Plain language from plain folks leaves nothing for Lawyers to screw around with.


We need to get *ALEC* out of it.

And we need to overturn Citizens United.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> These guys make me physically sick.


I agree, Dame. And I think it's pretty hypocritical that some folks (namely the racists and racists apologists) slam African-Americans for not "letting go" of centuries of slavery, segregation, and racist atrocities--while THEY cling to their status as poor, completely innocent victims of Northern aggression.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> High time that CEO's Salaries and Benefits are getting a ceiling. Some advanced countries have gone to it already in order to maintain some balance and prevent Revolutions. People will endure so much until their collar bursts and they start marching on those who have dictated their ill fate. American Greed is getting out of bounds.


Do those idiots realize they are pushing this country toward a quest for Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite? And all of us with our knitting needles - - Hmmm


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:



> Do those idiots realize they are pushing this country toward a quest for Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite? And all of us with our knitting needles - - Hmmm


Blinded by greed.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


Be Careful What You Wish

For decades now, the gun lobby has trotted out the same tired canard when Americans have called for gun reform in the wake of a mass shooting. Enforce the laws on the books, they tell us, as if there is an ample supply of American gun laws with actual teeth to be enforced.

Their response was no different after the horrific massacre of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School. You cant legislate morality, National Rifle Association (NRA) CEO Wayne LaPierre declared on Meet The Press. We dont prosecute anybody under federal gun laws right now. If you want to control violent criminals, take them off the streets.

LaPierres claim is largely bogus. According to a 2013 report, there were 7,520 federal weapons prosecutions in 2012, and that figure does not include state and local prosecutions. Second, we incarcerate more of our citizens than any nation on earth. Finally, no oneand we mean no onehas done more to hamper the enforcement of federal gun laws than the National Rifle Association itself.

Nonetheless, Republican lawmakers employed the NRAs mantra to reject any and all calls for reform of our gun laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre. *In a February 2013 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on gun violence, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina brushed aside reform proposals and stated, I think we should take our current law and enforce it. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas concurred, declaring, The focus of law enforcement should be on criminals  Many of the communities that each of you has suffered losses in are communities that, sadly, law enforcement has been failing.*

The Senators most specific grievance concerned prosecutions under a federal law that makes it a felony offense to lie on ATF Form 4473 when undergoing a background check to purchase a firearm. To be fair, there is certainly significant room for improvement in that area. That said, Republican lawmakers have been curiously silent about the issue of gun law enforcement since they used this excuse to help kill off reforms embraced by the Sandy Hook families in April of 2013.

Sometimes, however, its important to be careful what you wish for

In May 2014, Republican state Senator Ted Ferrioli of Oregon asked Governor John Kitzhaber to do what the NRA and other gun lobbyists have been advocating for years. A month later, Oregon State Police sent a letter to gun dealers informing them that they would be engaging in enforcement action involving persons attempting an unlawful firearms transfer through a licensed firearm dealer, during a voluntary private party check or a background check at a gun show. This process will allow OCP and other law enforcement agencies to investigate potential violations of lawand ultimately make Oregon a safer place, the letter concluded. A State Police training bulletin made it clear that officers would be dispatched to a gun dealers location to investigate (and potentially make an arrest) whenever an individual failed a background check.

It didnt take long for the gun lobby to react negatively to the new policy. The director of the Oregon Firearms Federation, Kevin Starrett, called it John Kitzhabers Jihad and a *politically motivated attack on gun owners. * To back up the latter claim, Starrett cited two cases where individuals who failed a background check were visited by a state trooper. The nature of the denials was unclear, but neither investigation led to an arrest (despite one of the would-be buyers being on a federal hold for mental health issues). To Starrett, however, this still represented heavy-handed law enforcement and an outrageous misuse of scarce police resources.

So much for enforcing the laws on the books.

http://csgv.org/blog/2014/careful-wish/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I've come to look at planned murders (done by someone over 18 years of age and of average IQ) as follows. Some crimes are so heinous that the act(s) deserve to be punished.
> 
> I'm not sure that our concept of capital punishment fits the bill anymore. It takes too long and costs too much. Treat and release non-violent criminals, keeping prison space for those who deserve it.


I agree with you here as well. I'm not an advocate of the penalty for a number of reasons, and with young punks like Roof and the Boston Bomber is seems a particularly inadequate punishment. People often argue "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but these slimebags are such nothings that their pitiful worthless lives are worth just a fraction of any one of the victims they killed. And, let's face it--these guys are delusional and semi-suicidal anyway. Killing them is simply doing them a favor by allowing them to go down in a blaze of delusional glory, at least in their own sick little minds.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law?


Exactly right, Solowey. Criminals have no intention of obeying the law, so if ordinary law-abiding citizens start arming themselves with handguns the criminals will simply up the firepower with extra-lethal, highly illegal types of weapons and ammo. It can't even be considered a vicious cycle of John Q Citizen and Vicious Criminal trying to match each other gun for gun because there are limits law-abiding citizens will not cross in terms of weapons and bullets. Vicious Criminal has no such compunctions, and so he will always win.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly right, Solowey. Criminals have no intention of obeying the law, so if ordinary law-abiding citizens start arming themselves with handguns the criminals will simply up the firepower with extra-lethal, highly illegal types of weapons and ammo. It can't even be considered a vicious cycle of John Q Citizen and Vicious Criminal trying to match each other gun for gun because there are limits law-abiding citizens will not cross in terms of weapons and bullets. Vicious Criminal has no such compunctions, and so he will always win.


Thank you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly right, Solowey. Criminals have no intention of obeying the law, so if ordinary law-abiding citizens start arming themselves with handguns the criminals will simply up the firepower with extra-lethal, highly illegal types of weapons and ammo. It can't even be considered a vicious cycle of John Q Citizen and Vicious Criminal trying to match each other gun for gun because there are limits law-abiding citizens will not cross in terms of weapons and bullets. Vicious Criminal has no such compunctions, and so he will always win.


Which is why so many police departments have buy-backs, where people can rid themselves of unneeded/unwanted weapons. However, I think these have been outlawed by the NRA wing of the Repub party.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Which is why so many police departments have buy-backs, where people can rid themselves of unneeded/unwanted weapons. However, I think these have been outlawed by the NRA wing of the Repub party.


_While Republicans across the country stir up a fear-mongering frenzy about Islamic terrorism, the real threat to American safety comes from radicals in their own party. The New York Times conducted a survey of 382 law enforcement agencies across the country, and 74% of them reported that right wing, anti-government extremism to be in the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction, as opposed to 39% considering Islamic terrorism to be a threat.

The numbers support that conclusion. Since 9/11, nine Muslim-American have been involved in around six plots a year, resulting in 50 fatalities. On the other hand, right-wing extremists have averaged 337 attacks a year, killing 254 people- including 25 police officers. It just goes to show how the propaganda of the right works to shelter their own and demonize minority groups. The constant lies and hatred, the constant denouncement of anything the government does, their attempts to convince Americans that the government wants to take away their guns and their freedoms spewed by FOX News and other pieces of the Republican echo chambers play an unquantifiable but certainly significant role in encouraging these kinds of attacks. _


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> _While Republicans across the country stir up a fear-mongering frenzy about Islamic terrorism, the real threat to American safety comes from radicals in their own party. The New York Times conducted a survey of 382 law enforcement agencies across the country, and 74% of them reported that right wing, anti-government extremism to be in the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction, as opposed to 39% considering Islamic terrorism to be a threat.
> 
> The numbers support that conclusion. Since 9/11, nine Muslim-American have been involved in around six plots a year, resulting in 50 fatalities. On the other hand, right-wing extremists have averaged 337 attacks a year, killing 254 people- including 25 police officers. It just goes to show how the propaganda of the right works to shelter their own and demonize minority groups. The constant lies and hatred, the constant denouncement of anything the government does, their attempts to convince Americans that the government wants to take away their guns and their freedoms spewed by FOX News and other pieces of the Republican echo chambers play an unquantifiable but certainly significant role in encouraging these kinds of attacks. _


The picture you attached is very scary. Do all those rifles have bayonets attached? Shooting someone from across the street isn't enough; do they need to get up close and personal?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The picture you attached is very scary. Do all those rifles have bayonets attached? Shooting someone from across the street isn't enough; do they need to get up close and personal?


Yes, bayonets.

Notice the piles of ammunition. That guy is not preparing to scare away a burglar. He's preparing for a war.

And it's on people like us.

And he's not alone.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

poppy28 said:


> When should I arrive? You will hardly even notice I'm there. :-D


I'm particularly fond of late February, when the citrus starts to bloom, the days are perfect and light breezes feel like silk.

By the end of March you will want to high-tail it for cooler climates!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you here as well. I'm not an advocate of the penalty for a number of reasons, and with young punks like Roof and the Boston Bomber is seems a particularly inadequate punishment. People often argue "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but these slimebags are such nothings that their pitiful worthless lives are worth just a fraction of any one of the victims they killed. And, let's face it--these guys are delusional and semi-suicidal anyway. Killing them is simply doing them a favor by allowing them to go down in a blaze of delusional glory, at least in their own sick little minds.


Spending the rest of their worthless lives cleaning toilets sounds about right. A shame that their room and board costs the public so much, though. In some countries don't the prisoners have to provide for their own food?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

YarnIt_All said:


> The argument that criminals don't follow laws is a red herring. Actually most criminals obey most laws.
> 
> I think most criminals are pretty lazy. When you put obstacles in their way, most of them just move on. Some find other was to get what they want, some don't.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...I think you misunderstood me, YarnIt_All. I by no means believe that, because criminals are by definition law breakers, strict gun control laws are useless. In fact, while I can't see stripping Americans of their favorite toys outright, I do believe gun control laws should be tightened until the hassle of owning one pretty much outweighs any so-called benefits. VERY thorough background checks, registration and mandatory safety classes, forcing owners to carry liability insurance, and throwing the book at parents and/or guardians who are careless--all that would dramatically reduce the number of accidental shootings and discourage folks from trying to buy these things for purposes of self-defense.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Spending the rest of their worthless lives cleaning toilets sounds about right. A shame that their room and board costs the public so much, though. In some countries don't the prisoners have to provide for their own food?


I think so. But why bother with scum like Roof? A poster on another thread said that he should spend the rest of his life in a tiny cell equipped with a tin bucket and subsisting on cold sandwiches. Frankly, he's not worth even a slice of bologna--let him live like his fellow maggots and make do with the contents of the bucket.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think so. But why bother with scum like Roof? A poster on another thread said that he should spend the rest of his life in a tiny cell equipped with a tin bucket and subsisting on cold sandwiches. Frankly, he's not worth even a slice of bologna--let him live like his fellow maggots and make do with the contents of the bucket.


Susan you are so smart! Recycling!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

YarnIt_All said:


> The argument that criminals don't follow laws is a red herring. Actually most criminals obey most laws.
> 
> I think most criminals are pretty lazy. When you put obstacles in their way, most of them just move on. Some find other was to get what they want, some don't.
> 
> ...


And superimposed over all of this is the gun manufacturing and retail industry in the U.S. This is an area which needs to be micromanaged by the ATF with the view of ousting gun dealers who don't correctly perform background checks on prospective buyers. According to the article below, the last decent examination of retail gun outlets by the ATF was just after Sandy Hook:

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/us-gun-industry-loads-up-thanks-to-boom-in-buyers-b99256050z1-256776061.html


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Although I think you're joking, surely one of the measures of a civilised society is how it treats its criminals?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Although I think you're joking, surely one of the measures of a civilised society is how it treats its criminals?


Of course. I don't believe in the death penalty and, ultimately, I believe all prisoners should be treated fairly and humanely. As with the Boston Bomber, I hope Roof spends the rest of his life behind bars and over time comes to truly understand and regret what he did.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course. I don't believe in the death penalty and, ultimately, I believe all prisoners should be treated fairly and humanely. As with the Boston Bomber, I hope Roof spends the rest of his life behind bars and over time comes to truly understand and regret what he did.


I prefer a black prison gang to teach him a lesson. Criminals who choose to do such heinous crimes forgo my sympathy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like fun!



DGreen said:


> Thanks, SQM!
> 
> Saturday we took the grandchildren (10 and 8) to a local produce farm run by two of the most warm-hearted and outgoing people I have ever met. The photo is actually an emu, and the owner opened the gate and stood guard so I could get a good photo without the chain-link fence obscuring my view. They also have a variety of other exotic fowl, including the most gorgeous pheasant I have ever seen, plus turkeys, chickens, ducks and quail and some Asian birds whose names I forgot immediately. We bought turkey, duck and chicken eggs and the owner threw in about 2 dozen quail eggs which we cooked for breakfast. They were about the size of a half-dollar in the skillet and looked so tiny next to the turkey eggs (huge).
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> With so many states passing Stand Your Ground laws or allowing people to bring guns openly into public places like schools, malls, and (holding my breath) bars, I don't see where we have "all those gun laws" you refer to. If we didn't have an oversupply of guns in this country, maybe the laws could be enforced. But there are laws that do not allow the government to keep records on the number of guns manufactured, on private sales of guns, or even on the numbers of shooting deaths.
> 
> I'm all in favor of trying to solve problems with mental health programs, but the solutions are not immediate. Just as people in AA often continue to drink, patients with mental health problems will continue the behavior they're being treated for. And too many aren't getting treatment at all. These are all people who can get guns and have ideas about how to use them. How many children can they kill before they're given the appropriate treatment? And how many drunks with legally obtained will use them to settle fights?
> 
> And didn't you post essentially the same message a couple of days ago?


...and since 2011, perhaps? Seems so familiar.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> In our travels we have seen them sold openly in Walmart stores in a number of states. At used tool auctions we have seen ads for gun sales in states other than ours where the laws are strong. Too many places where people can buy them legally with an eye wink at cursory background checks.
> 
> Sure there are many illegal sales. In states like ours where the law is strong by people who bought them legally in other states where they are sold like car tires and towels.
> 
> If gun laws didn't change after Sandy Hook, after Littleton, and on and on, the gun lobby still has disproportionate influence which overwhelms common sense. Money and power and that cold metal phallic symbol that shows that men are men. Except, of course, for the real men who don't need crutches like that to know who they are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Here's to real men! Hoo-rah.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> OK. Seems like we have been fighting crime for a very long time with limited success, though crime is actually down. Any new ideas?
> 
> (Please don't talk about getting tough on drugs - the war on drugs has been a dismal, expensive and counter-productive endeavor.)


?? So now we're legalizing marijuana? Where does this lead us? Empty for profit prisons?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lose them in the prison system. No chats with attorneys. No conjugal visits. No one writing books about them.



susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you here as well. I'm not an advocate of the penalty for a number of reasons, and with young punks like Roof and the Boston Bomber is seems a particularly inadequate punishment. People often argue "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but these slimebags are such nothings that their pitiful worthless lives are worth just a fraction of any one of the victims they killed. And, let's face it--these guys are delusional and semi-suicidal anyway. Killing them is simply doing them a favor by allowing them to go down in a blaze of delusional glory, at least in their own sick little minds.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

YarnIt_All said:


> The argument that criminals don't follow laws is a red herring. Actually most criminals obey most laws.
> 
> I think most criminals are pretty lazy. When you put obstacles in their way, most of them just move on. Some find other was to get what they want, some don't.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree in MHO.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hear the 'Jaws' theme in my head.



DGreen said:


> Yes, bayonets.
> 
> Notice the piles of ammunition. That guy is not preparing to scare away a burglar. He's preparing for a war.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

' Off with their heads. ' Remember the French Revolution? You may be right that a reminder is to come sooner than they think.



poppy28 said:


> Mine are sharpened and ready to poke some fat cat in the a$$!
> I think the time to revolt is a lot closer than we may think. People can only stand oppression for so long and then they will seek relief even if it means taking to the streets. I hope the powers that be wake up including Hillary Clinton.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm willing to provide necessities so there will be nothing to criticize. Poof!



MarilynKnits said:


> Spending the rest of their worthless lives cleaning toilets sounds about right. A shame that their room and board costs the public so much, though. In some countries don't the prisoners have to provide for their own food?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Susanmos2000 is Green too. DGreen.



MarilynKnits said:


> Susan you are so smart! Recycling!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm truly ashamed to admit that I'm not joking entirely. When someone plans and kills his mother and a kindergarten class, I'm done worrying about civilization. I'm on the edge of barbarism myself. That's why I'm afraid the revolution is closer than we fear.



aw9358 said:


> Although I think you're joking, surely one of the measures of a civilised society is how it treats its criminals?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you on this sqm. No sympathy for crimes like this.



SQM said:


> I prefer a black prison gang to teach him a lesson. Criminals who choose to do such heinous crimes forgo my sympathy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes, bayonets.
> 
> Notice the piles of ammunition. That guy is not preparing to scare away a burglar. He's preparing for a war.
> 
> ...


As I said, very scary. How did we get to this point?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> ?? So now we're legalizing marijuana? Where does this lead us? Empty for profit prisons?


As you may already know, the for-profit prisons in Arizona will never be empty.

Even though it costs more to incarcerate in a for-profit, our geniuses in government entered a contract guaranteeing 100% occupancy for the profiteers. So, in order to keep the for-profits full, they transfer prisoners from state-run facilities to the for-profits as needed.

Oh, by the way - the prison industry contributed $400,000 to Governor Ducey's campaign in 2014.

WE MUST OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED AND OUTLAW LOBBYING.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The picture you attached is very scary. Do all those rifles have bayonets attached? Shooting someone from across the street isn't enough; do they need to get up close and personal?


He looks such a big, tough man sitting there surrounded by all his guns and paraphernalia. How I wish I was a magic genie and could pick him up and take him back to 1914 and dump him somewhere in the middle of Ypres. You would soon see his true colours there. USA readers may not know the name Ypres because I think it was all over before they joined the Great War, which started for the rest of the world in 1914 but three years later, in 1917, for the USA.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, bayonets.
> 
> Notice the piles of ammunition. That guy is not preparing to scare away a burglar. He's preparing for a war.
> 
> ...


I bet he is not willing to sign on the dotted line to put his boots on the ground against ISIS.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


Soloweygirl
tell us in which State you can NOT buy a gun legally.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> We need to get *ALEC* out of it.
> 
> And we need to overturn Citizens United.


DGreen
agree, ALEC and Citizens United have to go and fast.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do those idiots realize they are pushing this country toward a quest for Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite? And all of us with our knitting needles - - Hmmm


MarilynKnits
just listen how important money is to those who have it. Most of them however do not trumpet it to the World as The Donald does but it surely creeps into every conversation with them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you here as well. I'm not an advocate of the penalty for a number of reasons, and with young punks like Roof and the Boston Bomber is seems a particularly inadequate punishment. People often argue "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", but these slimebags are such nothings that their pitiful worthless lives are worth just a fraction of any one of the victims they killed. And, let's face it--these guys are delusional and semi-suicidal anyway. Killing them is simply doing them a favor by allowing them to go down in a blaze of delusional glory, at least in their own sick little minds.


susanmos2000
I do not see Tim McVeigh getting much attention any longer. Gone and forgotten and that is the case with all of those we sent into eternal rest.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> _While Republicans across the country stir up a fear-mongering frenzy about Islamic terrorism, the real threat to American safety comes from radicals in their own party. The New York Times conducted a survey of 382 law enforcement agencies across the country, and 74% of them reported that right wing, anti-government extremism to be in the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction, as opposed to 39% considering Islamic terrorism to be a threat.
> 
> The numbers support that conclusion. Since 9/11, nine Muslim-American have been involved in around six plots a year, resulting in 50 fatalities. On the other hand, right-wing extremists have averaged 337 attacks a year, killing 254 people- including 25 police officers. It just goes to show how the propaganda of the right works to shelter their own and demonize minority groups. The constant lies and hatred, the constant denouncement of anything the government does, their attempts to convince Americans that the government wants to take away their guns and their freedoms spewed by FOX News and other pieces of the Republican echo chambers play an unquantifiable but certainly significant role in encouraging these kinds of attacks. _


DGreen
what a scary picture. This guy most likely was at the bottom of his class in every class and now wants to get to the top somewhere.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, bayonets.
> 
> Notice the piles of ammunition. That guy is not preparing to scare away a burglar. He's preparing for a war.
> 
> ...


DGreen
unfortunately you are right.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> ?? So now we're legalizing marijuana? Where does this lead us? Empty for profit prisons?


damemary
it leaves us with money to be spend on education (don't we hope).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Huck, this is one thing we appear to look at differently. PM me when you can.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> it leaves us with money to be spend on education (don't we hope).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> He looks such a big, tough man sitting there surrounded by all his guns and paraphernalia. How I wish I was a magic genie and could pick him up and take him back to 1914 and dump him somewhere in the middle of Ypres. You would soon see his true colours there. USA readers may not know the name Ypres because I think it was all over before they joined the Great War, which started for the rest of the world in 1914 but three years later, in 1917, for the USA.


Most of these big, tough men run in the opposite direction when it's time to fight for the country. The ones who don't, sell their services to the highest bidder. Thoroughly creepy people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Soloweygirl
> tell us in which State you can NOT buy a gun legally.


New York makes it difficult, but of course some can do it. They have to pass background checks and demonstrate a need (not just a desire) to carry a gun. But we have to put up with the fact that so many other states have no controls or are lax with what exists, so guns come in anyway.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> I do not see Tim McVeigh getting much attention any longer. Gone and forgotten and that is the case with all of those we sent into eternal rest.


That's true. Charles Manson is forever a reminder to us.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> what a scary picture. This guy most likely was at the bottom of his class in every class and now wants to get to the top somewhere.


And the constant media attention is helping with that. I blame the media as much as anything for this latest tragedy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The following, from http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control?intcid=mod-most-popular
is rather long. I didn't want to make the decision about what to delete, so it's all here.

If you read nothing else, please look at the last two paragraphs.

December 19, 2012
*The Simple Truth About Gun Control*
by Adam Gopnik

We live, lets imagine, in a city where children are dying of a ravaging infection. The good news is that its cause is well understood and its cure, an antibiotic, easily at hand. The bad news is that our city council has been taken over by a faith-healing cult that will go to any lengths to keep the antibiotic from the kids. Some citizens would doubtless point out meekly that faith healing has an ancient history in our city, and we must regard the faith healers with respectto do otherwise would show a lack of respect for their freedom to faith-heal. (The faith healers proposition is that if there were a faith healer praying in every kindergarten the kids wouldnt get infections in the first place.) A few Tartuffes would see the children writhe and heave in pain and then wring their hands in self-congratulatory piety and wonder why a good God would send such a terrible affliction on the innocentsurely he must have a plan! Most of usevery sane person in the city, actuallywould tell the faith healers to go to hell, put off worrying about the Problem of Evil till Friday or Saturday or Sunday, and do everything we could to get as much penicillin to the kids as quickly we could.

We do live in such a city. Five thousand seven hundred and forty children and teens died from gunfire in the United States, just in 2008 and 2009. Twenty more, including Olivia Engel, who was seven, and Jesse Lewis, who was six, were killed just last week. Some reports say their bodies werent shown to their grief-stricken parents to identify them; just their pictures. The overwhelming majority of those children would have been saved with effective gun control. We know that this is so, because, in societies that have effective gun control, children rarely, rarely, rarely die of gunshots. Lets worry tomorrow about the problem of Evil. Lets worry more about making sure that when the Problem of Evil appears in a first-grade classroom, it is armed with a penknife.

There are complex, hand-wringing-worthy problems in our social life: deficits and debts and climate change. Gun violence, and the work of eliminating gun massacres in schools and movie houses and the like, is not one of them. Gun control works on gun violence as surely as antibiotics do on bacterial infections. In Scotland, after Dunblane, in Australia, after Tasmania, in Canada, after the Montreal massacrein each case the necessary laws were passed to make gun-owning hard, and in each case well, you will note the absence of massacre-condolence speeches made by the Prime Ministers of Canada and Australia, in comparison with our own President.

The laws differ from place to place. In some jurisdictions, like Scotland, it is essentially impossible to own a gun; in others, like Canada, it is merely very, very difficult. The precise legislation that makes gun-owning hard in a certain sense doesnt really matterand that should give hope to all of those who feel that, with several hundred million guns in private hands, theres no point in trying to make America a gun-sane country.

As I wrote last January, the central insight of the modern study of criminal violence is that all crimeeven the horrific violent crimes of assault and rapeis at some level opportunistic. Building a low annoying wall against them is almost as effective as building a high impenetrable one. This is the key concept of Franklin Zimrings amazing work on crime in New York; everyone said that, given the social pressures, the slum pathologies, the profits to be made in drug dealing, the ascending levels of despair, that there was no hope of changing the ever-growing cycle of violence. The right wing insisted that this generation of predators would give way to a new generation of super-predators.

What the New York Police Department found out, through empirical experience and better organization, was that making crime even a little bit harder made it much, much rarer. This is undeniably true of property crime, and common sense and evidence tells you that this is also true even of crimes committed by crazy people (to use the plain English the subject deserves). Those who hold themselves together enough to be capable of killing anyone are subject to the same rules of opportunity as sane people. Even madmen need opportunities to display their madness, and behave in different ways depending on the possibilities at hand. Demand an extraordinary degree of determination and organization from someone intent on committing a violent act, and the odds that the violent act will take place are radically reduced, in many cases to zero.

Look at the Harvard social scientist David Hemenways work on gun violence to see how simple it is; the phrase more guns = more homicide tolls through it like a grim bell. The more guns there are in a country, the more gun murders and massacres of children there will be. Even within this gun-crazy country, states with strong gun laws have fewer gun murders (and suicides and accidental killings) than states without them. (Hemenway is also the scientist who has shown that the inflated figure of guns used in self-defense every year, running even to a million or two million, is a pure fantasy, even though its still cited by pro-gun enthusiasts. Those hundreds of thousands intruders shot by gun owners left no records in emergency wards or morgues; indeed, left no evidentiary trace behind. This is because they did not exist.) Hemenway has discovered, as he explained in this interview with Harvard Magazine, that what is usually presented as a case of self-defense with guns is, in the real world, almost invariably a story about an escalating quarrel. How often might you appropriately use a gun in self-defense? Hemenway asks rhetorically. Answer: zero to once in a lifetime. How about inappropriatelybecause you were tired, afraid, or drunk in a confrontational situation? There are lots and lots of chances.

So dont listen to those who, seeing twenty dead six- and seven-year-olds in ten minutes, their bodies riddled with bullets designed to rip apart bone and organ, say that this is impossibly hard, or even particularly complex, problem. Its a very easy one. Summoning the political will to make it happen may be hard. But theres no doubt or ambiguity about what needs to be done, nor that, if it is done, it will work. One would have to believe that Americans are somehow uniquely evil or depraved to think that the same forces that work on the rest of the planet wont work here. Its always hard to summon up political will for change, no matter how beneficial the change may obviously be. Summoning the political will to make automobiles safe was difficult; so was summoning the political will to limit and then effectively ban cigarettes from public places. At some point, we will become a gun-safe, and then a gun-sane, and finally a gun-free society. Its closer than you think. (Im grateful to my colleague Jeffrey Toobin for showing so well that the idea that the Second Amendment assures individual possession of guns, so far from being deeply rooted in American law, is in truth a new and bizarre reading, one that would have shocked even Warren Burger.)

Gun control is not a panacea, any more than penicillin was. Some violence will always go on. What gun control is good at is controlling guns. Gun control will eliminate gun massacres in America as surely as antibiotics eliminate bacterial infections. As I wrote last week, those who oppose it have made a moral choice: that they would rather have gun massacres of children continue rather than surrender whatever idea of freedom or pleasure they find wrapped up in owning guns or seeing guns ownedjust as the faith healers would rather watch the children die than accept the reality of scientific medicine. This is a moral choice; many faith healers make it to this day, and not just in thought experiments. But it is absurd to shake our heads sapiently and say we cant possibly know what would have saved the lives of Olivia and Jesse.

On gun violence and how to end it, the facts are all in, the evidence is clear, the truth there for all who care to know itindeed, a global consensus is in place, which, in disbelief and now in disgust, the planet waits for us to join. Those who fight against gun control, actively or passively, with a shrug of helplessness, are dooming more kids to horrible deaths and more parents to unspeakable grief just as surely as are those who fight against pediatric medicine or childhood vaccination. Its really, and inarguably, just as simple as that.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> And the constant media attention is helping with that. I blame the media as much as anything for this latest tragedy.


I Think the media at least draws things like this to our attention. We have to look carefully, and accept what we believe is the truth. If not for the media there would be little said about the horror in SC. If not, there would not be a discussion going on about the flag. They cover stories with different levels of truthfulness. Think how much we have learned about what is really going on since there are cameras in our phones. Things that never were acknowledged before. Unless we see and hear the news, we aren not aware of what is happening. I agree we have to watch and think, and decide what is real and what isn't. Better than no news.

Look at how news coverage and use of pictures taken by civilians, has brought the problems with Police and race to our attention.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> OK. Seems like we have been fighting crime for a very long time with limited success, though crime is actually down. Any new ideas?
> 
> (Please don't talk about getting tough on drugs - the war on drugs has been a dismal, expensive and counter-productive endeavor.)


Now you are talking about overall crime, not just gun violence. I would imagine different crimes go through cycles. Burglaries are up or down depending on the time of year. Domestic violence has so many different variables it would be hard to predict. Shoplifting is probably down as many stores are closing, including whole malls thanks to online shopping and bad business practices. Insurance fraud probably runs on a cycle as well, although I never took notice. Car theft seems to depend on what vehicle is popular at the time and who is in the market for it. Any crime involving the property of another can be solved without taking ones constitutional rights away.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> High time that CEO's Salaries and Benefits are getting a ceiling. Some advanced countries have gone to it already in order to maintain some balance and prevent Revolutions. People will endure so much until their collar bursts and they start marching on those who have dictated their ill fate. American Greed is getting out of bounds.


Please tell us which countries and corporations are doing this. What amount are the salaries capped at? How many CEO's are affected by such legislation?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly right, Solowey. Criminals have no intention of obeying the law, so if ordinary law-abiding citizens start arming themselves with handguns the criminals will simply up the firepower with extra-lethal, highly illegal types of weapons and ammo. It can't even be considered a vicious cycle of John Q Citizen and Vicious Criminal trying to match each other gun for gun because there are limits law-abiding citizens will not cross in terms of weapons and bullets. Vicious Criminal has no such compunctions, and so he will always win.


Not every ordinary law abiding citizen is armed, nor do they want to be. The majority of these ordinary armed citizens are not hot heads. They aren't looking around every corner for someone to break the law so they can shoot them. They have taken gun safety courses and know how to use their weapon. They are not looking to one up the criminal in the weapon department either. Vicious criminals are not in the majority and IMO will not always win.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Please tell us which countries and corporations are doing this. What amount are the salaries capped at? How many CEO's are affected by such legislation?


From the Houston Chronicle:

_CEO Pay Ratio
The ratio of CEO pay to the median salary for all other employees in the company provides a reference of how high CEO pay is. It's often used to compare CEO pay across countries. U.S. CEOs earn from 400 to 500 times the median salary for workers. For CEOs in the U.K., the ratio is 22; in France, it's 15; and in Germany it's 12._

This doesn't answer all your specific questions (which are beginning to sound like someone else's), but it gives you some idea of what CEO pay is like in the more civilized countries.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Please tell us which countries and corporations are doing this. What amount are the salaries capped at? How many CEO's are affected by such legislation?


Here's another indication of how it is in the US.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

YarnIt_All said:


> The argument that criminals don't follow laws is a red herring. Actually most criminals obey most laws.
> 
> I think most criminals are pretty lazy. When you put obstacles in their way, most of them just move on. Some find other was to get what they want, some don't.
> 
> ...


If you really believe that, then you have to go after the part of society that emphasizes and glorifies the gun culture. If that is done, it's stepping into the world of the 1st Amendment.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> _While Republicans across the country stir up a fear-mongering frenzy about Islamic terrorism, the real threat to American safety comes from radicals in their own party. The New York Times conducted a survey of 382 law enforcement agencies across the country, and 74% of them reported that right wing, anti-government extremism to be in the top three terrorist threats in their jurisdiction, as opposed to 39% considering Islamic terrorism to be a threat.
> 
> The numbers support that conclusion. Since 9/11, nine Muslim-American have been involved in around six plots a year, resulting in 50 fatalities. On the other hand, right-wing extremists have averaged 337 attacks a year, killing 254 people- including 25 police officers. It just goes to show how the propaganda of the right works to shelter their own and demonize minority groups. The constant lies and hatred, the constant denouncement of anything the government does, their attempts to convince Americans that the government wants to take away their guns and their freedoms spewed by FOX News and other pieces of the Republican echo chambers play an unquantifiable but certainly significant role in encouraging these kinds of attacks. _


Is that 254 killings since 9/11? That is way less than the number of killings that take place in Detroit and Chicago per year. How many people are in these extreme right wing groups? Their thoughts and actions are not condoned by the Republican Party.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Soloweygirl
> tell us in which State you can NOT buy a gun legally.


Again with your comprehension problems. I said not everyone who wants a gun can purchase one legally.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Looks as if the Red Queen has sent her surrogate today. Guess she wants to be able to say she is not the troll.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> In what way? I think the problem is that due to a LACK of coverage of these guys, people think they're much more rare than they really are.


Hi Friend,

The media is making the nobodies into somebodies. As was mentioned, these guys are isolated and have not amounted to anything and suddenly they are talked about 24/7. Negative attention is better than no attention. If we only had 15 minutes of news like in the John Cameron Swayze era, this goon would not have the constant media attention he is getting and would not become a role model for all the demented losers. Of course this will never happen. By gone era.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Just so you know, it's racist to compare crimes of proximity and poverty and desperation to Right Wing hate groups.
> 
> Crimes of proximity are not inspired by racism.
> 
> It's comparing apples to oranges and is deceitful.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> With all the gun laws out there on the federal, state and local levels, everyone who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so. The majority of people killing others with guns have not purchased them legally. How can you possibly legislate to those that have no intention of obeying/following the law? Time will be better spent getting to the cause of the crime and fix that, than making more laws that only serve to keep the honest, honest.


soloweygirl
you obviously do not understand what you wrote or you would not have questioned my comprehension.
"................... EVERYONE who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so" is what you wrote. Any more comments? Perhaps you need to learn sentence structure. Now what?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Again with your comprehension problems. I said not everyone who wants a gun can purchase one legally.


soloweygirl
I suggest you have someone explain to you what you wrote on 6-22 (see above my direct quote). What you state here is NOT what you wrote. I know, I know, Language can get one into a tizzy and a tizzy is what you are in. By the way anyone with a clean record can purchase a gun legally.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Well it's absolutely true that FoxNews perpetuates the interests of the false white oppression class that Roof believed in, so if he watched anything, it would be FoxNews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put! Welcome to KP.



Rhyddfrydol said:


> Besides, she's missing the point. If there actually was any 'difficulty with people being able to get guns, there wouldn't bus such a HUGE proliferation of them
> 
> The problem is there are SOOOO MANY guns out there, people don't even need to get a license or register. Especially in certain areas of the country, you practically trip over them wherever you walk.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Friend,
> 
> The media is making the nobodies into somebodies. As was mentioned, these guys are isolated and have not amounted to anything and suddenly they are talked about 24/7. Negative attention is better than no attention. If we only had 15 minutes of news like in the John Cameron Swayze era, this goon would not have the constant media attention he is getting and would not become a role model for all the demented losers. Of course this will never happen. By gone era.


I might have agreed with you in the beginning, SQM, when crazy racist bedbugs were swarming the Internet to cheer Roof on. But now things seem to be changing--there's serious discussion about removing that awful Confederate battle flag from the SC state grounds, major retailers like Walmart, Amazon, and Ebay are eliminiating the Confederate flag merchandise they've always sold, and South Carolinians have come together to mourn the tragedy and do some serious soul searching. Would all this have come about if Psycho Roof had been dropped by the media in 24 hours? Probably not.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about because I know of no info yet where he was inspired by anyone but the same guy a boatload of Republican politicians courted for money.
> 
> I think you're confusing killers
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. McVeigh was also not a publicity seeker. Both those guys believed they were doing something for the betterment of the country. Palin is indeed a publicity-hound, but she kills wolves, not people.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I might have agreed with you in the beginning, SQM, when crazy racist bedbugs were swarming the Internet to cheer Roof on. But now things seem to be changing--there's serious discussion about removing that awful Confederate battle flag from the SC state grounds, major retailers like Walmart, Amazon, and Ebay are eliminiating the Confederate flag merchandise they've always sold, and South Carolinians have come together to mourn the tragedy and do some serious soul searching. Would all this have come about if Psycho Roof had been dropped by the media in 24 hours? Probably not.


The tradeoff is hardly equal. Roof is a hero now to some other looney and the same thing will happen again. Let Amazon et al sell the rag flag. Rather that than some other think Roof is a media star and attempt to emulate him.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right now that I stop to consider this....but it's even more sinister. They hide behind regular faces and only betray themselves to those who earn the trust. I'm shivering. And it's true. I'm much more careful trusting anyone.



Rhyddfrydol said:


> I'm not sure what you're talking about because I know of no info yet where he was inspired by anyone but the same guy a boatload of Republican politicians courted for money.
> 
> I think you're confusing killers
> 
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I might have agreed with you in the beginning, SQM, when crazy racist bedbugs were swarming the Internet to cheer Roof on. But now things seem to be changing--there's serious discussion about removing that awful Confederate battle flag from the SC state grounds, major retailers like Walmart, Amazon, and Ebay are eliminiating the Confederate flag merchandise they've always sold, and South Carolinians have come together to mourn the tragedy and do some serious soul searching. Would all this have come about if Psycho Roof had been dropped by the media in 24 hours? Probably not.


Also saw in this morning's paper that the major Made in America flag manufacturer was discontinuing making any confederate flags. There are, however, other manufacturers who are seeing a boom in their traitor flag sales. Says something about some people, and it is not a nice something.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Also saw in this morning's paper that the major Made in America flag manufacturer was discontinuing making any confederate flags. There are, however, other manufacturers who are seeing a boom in their traitor flag sales. Says something about some people, and it is not a nice something.


What it really says is that the flag issue is deflecting from the real issue of guns and mental illness.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> What it really says is that the flag issue is deflecting from the real issue of guns and mental illness.


Yes, I agree with you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Also saw in this morning's paper that the major Made in America flag manufacturer was discontinuing making any confederate flags. There are, however, other manufacturers who are seeing a boom in their traitor flag sales. Says something about some people, and it is not a nice something.


MarilynKnits
GREED is the culprit. Drape guns into the Flag, add the Constitution and the money will flow and coming from those who never accomplished anything worthwhile and want to get recognition no matter how vile.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

President Obama refers to Australian gun laws in a positive way and makes this impressive statement in regard to respecting the tradition of gun ownership in America:

"The question is just, 'Is there a way of accommodating that legitimate set of traditions with some commonsense stuff that prevents a 21-year-old who is angry about something or confused about something, or is racist, or is deranged, from going into a gun store and suddenly is packing and can do enormous harm?'" Obama asked.

"It is not something we have fully come to terms with.

"Unfortunately the grip of the NRA on Congress is extremely strong.

"I don't foresee any legislative action being taken in this Congress and I don't foresee any real action being taken until the American public feels a sufficient sense of urgency and say to themselves, 'This is not normal. This is something we can change and we're going to change it'.

"If you don't have that kind of public and voter pressure, then it's not going to change from the inside."

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/23/05/49/president-obama-praises-australian-gun-laws


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> What it really says is that the flag issue is deflecting from the real issue of guns and mental illness.


I think it really boils down to the guns and the guns alone. Eliminate guns of warfare, reduce the number of guns in the country and make it REALLY HARD for people to get gun registration. Oh, and the AFT have to overhaul their system of inspecting gun retailers right away.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who would happily surrender their guns for money in a gun amnesty.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Also saw in this morning's paper that the major Made in America flag manufacturer was discontinuing making any confederate flags. There are, however, other manufacturers who are seeing a boom in their traitor flag sales. Says something about some people, and it is not a nice something.


So true--but then those slobs immediately reveal themselves as loathsome racist by hoisting that abomination. Kind of like those who still use the "n" word.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

This just in: Alabama Governor Robert Bentley has ordered all Confederate flags removed from the state Capitol grounds. Sweet!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> This just in: Alabama Governor Robert Bentley has ordered all Confederate flags removed from the state Capitol grounds. Sweet!


susanmos2000
very nice but I would have liked it so much more if this had happened long ago and not because of people losing their Lives but because of common decency and respect for all people. ".......one Nation under God, indivisible...." UNITED States of America.

The Charleston Killer obviously did not look into his Family History, "Storm and Roof" are not Native American names. Well, education was not important to him.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true--but then those slobs immediately reveal themselves as loathsome racist by hoisting that abomination. Kind of like those who still use the "n" word.


susanmos2000
I find more and more that those who freely used the "n" word are now whispering "blacks". The vocabulary changes but the attitude remains.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good point. In fact, at best a flag is just a symbol, but it can also be a threat, as when it is used by someone killing a dozen or so...this week. Then there's the copycats.



SQM said:


> What it really says is that the flag issue is deflecting from the real issue of guns and mental illness.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Besides, she's missing the point. If there actually was any 'difficulty with people being able to get guns, there wouldn't bus such a HUGE proliferation of them
> 
> The problem is there are SOOOO MANY guns out there, people don't even need to get a license or register. Especially in certain areas of the country, you practically trip over them wherever you walk.
> 
> ...


No additional gun control legislation will change that fact. If a criminal or those "less than law abiding" want to get their hands on a gun, they will find a way to do so. Nothing new there. All this gun control talk is just a lot of hot air that is just the equivalent to a bandaid which masks the underlying problems. It's time to fix the problems.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Just so you know, it's racist to compare crimes of proximity and poverty and desperation to Right Wing hate groups.
> 
> Crimes of proximity are not inspired by racism.
> 
> It's comparing apples to oranges and is deceitful.


What a crock of BS. Liberals have created the situation in these cities and need to take a good long look in the mirror before continuing to label Republicans as the only racists. White liberals treat their fellow black, brown, Asian liberals as lower class members. White privilege is alive and well and thriving in the Democratic Party.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you obviously do not understand what you wrote or you would not have questioned my comprehension.
> "................... EVERYONE who wants to purchase one cannot legally do so" is what you wrote. Any more comments? Perhaps you need to learn sentence structure. Now what?


I will say it slowly. Everyone who wants a gun is not able to purchase one legally. Those that cannot do so legally, have to go through other means to obtain a gun. Whether they ask a friend or family member to give them one or purchase one for them, or they buy one from someone off the street, or they steal one they are not legally obtained by the person that wants the gun. What is so difficult to understand?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I think it really boils down to the guns and the guns alone. Eliminate guns of warfare, reduce the number of guns in the country and make it REALLY HARD for people to get gun registration. Oh, and the AFT have to overhaul their system of inspecting gun retailers right away.
> 
> You'd be surprised at the number of people who would happily surrender their guns for money in a gun amnesty.


They happily take the money then turn around and buy another, better/bigger gun. Smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I will say it slowly. Everyone who wants a gun is not able to purchase one legally. Those that cannot do so legally, have to go through other means to obtain a gun. Whether they ask a friend or family member to give them one or purchase one for them, or they buy one from someone off the street, or they steal one they are not legally obtained by the person that wants the gun. What is so difficult to understand?


You obviously don't understand Huckleberry. The sentence "Everyone who wants a gun is not able to purchase one legally" means "*all* people who want guns can't purchase them legally" (logically equivalent to "nobody who wants a gun can purchase them legally.")

That's probably not what you mean to say.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No additional gun control legislation will change that fact. If a criminal or those "less than law abiding" want to get their hands on a gun, they will find a way to do so. Nothing new there. All this gun control talk is just a lot of hot air that is just the equivalent to a bandaid which masks the underlying problems. It's time to fix the problems.


*I recommend the following article, which compares our so-called gun control legislation with that in other civilized countries. Among other things.
*http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control?intcid=mod-most-popular

What would you say are the "underlying problems" when a 4-year-old picks up a loaded gun and shoots his mother? Or when an otherwise normal-seeming person walks into a movie theater and shoots a dozen people? Do you think we should let the killing go on while we solve those problems?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


> You're not making any sense to me. Was Roof's crime supposed to go unreported?
> 
> Or if you're saying his identity should be secret ... are you saying that these other racists need his specific identity to hero worship him? If his identity was secret, they'd just create a fantasy hero that would be even more powerful and toxic than the real thing.
> 
> ...


I think they should be exposed to the air as the sick people they are. When some people see them they may be inspired, but most people will see them for the sorry losers they are.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> What a crock of BS. Liberals have created the situation in these cities and need to take a good long look in the mirror before continuing to label Republicans as the only racists. White liberals treat their fellow black, brown, Asian liberals as lower class members. White privilege is alive and well and thriving in the Democratic Party.


Liberals have created gangs, gang violence, economic disadvantage, poor education and high rates of incarceration of those of color? Liberals have created slums?

Please elaborate. I would love to hear the rationale behind your statement that liberals have created "the situation in these cities"


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Walay rasa said:


> You keep repeating that and never question it
> 
> MANY of those "less than law abiding" don't bother when it's made more difficult.
> 
> ...


Besides, even though we have other laws, there are those who break them. Does it logically follow that we should have no laws?

In a word, NO.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Walay rasa said:


> The 'real issue' is NOT mental illness. This guy is not mentally ill in so much as he's just a more blatant and committed right winger.
> 
> And quite frankly, I've seen more discussion about guns than I have in a long time.
> 
> I don't understand this notion that we can't juggle two issues at the same time. I think one can be used to boost the other.


A new user and a new therapist. KP is becoming overrun with therapists these days.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> No additional gun control legislation will change that fact. If a criminal or those "less than law abiding" want to get their hands on a gun, they will find a way to do so. Nothing new there. All this gun control talk is just a lot of hot air that is just the equivalent to a bandaid which masks the underlying problems. It's time to fix the problems.


This is the wisest thing I've read on this thread, in days. All of you who want to eliminate our right to own guns, will live to regret your words! More people have died from democide (murder by government), than from any other cause. And while you may think that it could never happen here, it can happen anywhere. Read the patriot acts, the ndaa, the executive orders, army manuals. Our government is already preparing for it. Never has our country experienced such division, such hatred. Read what German and Austrian citizens have to say. No one thought it could happen there either. People are deceived. But in EVERY case of democide, FIRST, THEY TOOK AWAY THE GUNS! History repeats itself! People who can't defend themselves become victims!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Liberals have created gangs, gang violence, economic disadvantage, poor education and high rates of incarceration of those of color? Liberals have created slums?
> 
> Please elaborate. I would love to hear the rationale behind your statement that liberals have created "the situation in these cities"


You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> A new user and a new therapist. KP is becoming overrun with therapists these days.


It's being overrun by new identities. It's getting old. I'm tired of it. At least she could stick to one at a time.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is the wisest thing I've read on this thread, in days. All of you who want to eliminate our right to own guns, will live to regret your words! More people have died from democide (murder by government), than from any other cause. And while you may think that it could never happen here, it can happen anywhere. Read the patriot acts, the ndaa, the executive orders, army manuals. Our government is already preparing for it. Never has our country experienced such division, such hatred. Read what German and Austrian citizens have to say. No one thought it could happen there either. People are deceived. But in EVERY case of democide, FIRST, THEY TOOK AWAY THE GUNS! History repeats itself! People who can't defend themselves become victims!


Are you truly expecting our government to murder us all? And for what purpose? What you say about the government makes no sense whatever.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


How so?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Liberals have created gangs, gang violence, economic disadvantage, poor education and high rates of incarceration of those of color? Liberals have created slums?
> 
> Please elaborate. I would love to hear the rationale behind your statement that liberals have created "the situation in these cities"


Just take a look at the leadership of those cities for the last 5 or so decades and compare that to the decline. I didn't say liberals created gangs and the violence, those are your words. Education is under the control of the leaders of the city. It certainly has failed in Detroit and isn't thriving in Chicago for the poor, which leads to their economic disadvantage. Again, look to the leadership and you will have your answer.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


> You keep repeating that and never question it
> 
> MANY of those "less than law abiding" don't bother when it's made more difficult.
> 
> ...


Thank you. The keyboard is the keyboard of Soloweygirl, but the ideas are the ideas of the NRA. (A little biblical showing off.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Liberals have created gangs, gang violence, economic disadvantage, poor education and high rates of incarceration of those of color? Liberals have created slums?
> 
> Please elaborate. I would love to hear the rationale behind your statement that liberals have created "the situation in these cities"


The rationale is obviously that if you repeat a lie often enough, the weak-minded will come to believe it. But she'll probably blame Welfare, Medicaid, homeless shelters, ....


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


She certainly can deny that. It was property owners, trying to squeeze every penny they could out of their houses, who built tenement upon tenement, until every bit of indoor space was for rent, and most of the inhabitants saw no daylight. It was the reformers (progressive ones) pushing to have these outlawed who prevented the slums from getting worse.

See, e.g., http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Tenements.aspx


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Are you truly expecting our government to murder us all? And for what purpose? What you say about the government makes no sense whatever.


They've already started. Note the chemtrails. But I'm guessing the reason is so the ones who survive will be slaves to the governing corporation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is the wisest thing I've read on this thread, in days. All of you who want to eliminate our right to own guns, will live to regret your words! More people have died from democide (murder by government), than from any other cause. And while you may think that it could never happen here, it can happen anywhere. Read the patriot acts, the ndaa, the executive orders, army manuals. Our government is already preparing for it. Never has our country experienced such division, such hatred. Read what German and Austrian citizens have to say. No one thought it could happen there either. People are deceived. But in EVERY case of democide, FIRST, THEY TOOK AWAY THE GUNS! History repeats itself! People who can't defend themselves become victims!


 How come all of Europe, as well as Canada and Australia, haven't been killed by their governments, who instead offer their citizens medical care, paid parental leave, long vacations and short work-weeks? Gun ownership is very well controlled in those countries.

Your knowledge of history seems to cover only the worst things that have happened in the past century. Somehow you skipped everything between Hitler and the Patriot Act.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


> Yeah but Donald Sterling was a 'job creator"!
> 
> This is what happens, in most situations. Conservatives suck the life out of and sabotage liberal efforts, skip or are run out out of town and liberals are left to pick up the pieces and people like Solo and KFN blame the liberals for it.
> 
> It's like an episode of Law and Order where a murderer shoots someone, runs away, a concerned citizen performs CPR but fails ... and then gets arrested for murder.


Or like a version of Father Bush Knows Best, where Bud messes up the family's economy to the point where Princess and the other daughter can't fix it and get blamed for the mess they were trying to repair. (It's a stretch, I'll admit.)


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


Slums existed for centuries before liberalism even raised its head, from ancient times to now. It stems from more money being held at the top than in the rest of the population. From the "little guy" being ground down. And it is worse now in our country than it has ever been.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

It's time to unwatch. I've seen enough stupidity about this damned gun argument to last a lifetime. I'm finding it completely disgusting and offensive that some are very content to allow children to be slaughtered as collateral damage, as long as their "rights" aren't infringed. I'm sickened by the whole thing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


>


I had to do this to get those smileys. Love them.

But the ones I got were different. I need the goofy, cockeyed one.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A new user and a new therapist. KP is becoming overrun with therapists these days.


A refreshing change since we have been overrun with people who have simplistic answers to all our woes. When we get different views and opinions we can weigh thoughts and facts and perhaps come up with workable solutions to our problems.

And one of the problems is that guns are too easily available to every nut looking for them. If there were better background checks and fewer guns on the streets there wouldn't be as many nutcases like the one who shot up the theater or the one who killed all those children. This Root person strikes me as more similar to the Boston Marathon killer in that he festered in ethnic hatred and planned a cold attack on innocents.

Sometimes you are not as smart as you think you are.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They've already started. Note the chemtrails. But I'm guessing the reason is so the ones who survive will be slaves to the governing corporation.


 :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> A refreshing change since we have been overrun with people who have simplistic answers to all our woes. When we get different views and opinions we can weigh thoughts and facts and perhaps come up with workable solutions to our problems.
> 
> And one of the problems is that guns are too easily available to every nut looking for them. If there were better background checks and fewer guns on the streets there wouldn't be as many nutcases like the one who shot up the theater or the one who killed all those children. This Root person strikes me as more similar to the Boston Marathon killer in that he festered in ethnic hatred and planned a cold attack on innocents.
> 
> Sometimes you are not as smart as you think you are.


I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


How will we solve this problem if we do nothing?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> A refreshing change since we have been overrun with people who have simplistic answers to all our woes. When we get different views and opinions we can weigh thoughts and facts and perhaps come up with workable solutions to our problems.
> 
> And one of the problems is that guns are too easily available to every nut looking for them. If there were better background checks and fewer guns on the streets there wouldn't be as many nutcases like the one who shot up the theater or the one who killed all those children. This Root person strikes me as more similar to the Boston Marathon killer in that he festered in ethnic hatred and planned a cold attack on innocents.
> 
> Sometimes you are not as smart as you think you are.


Sometimes?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


>


Yep, that's the one (I'm typing in my Clem Kadiddlehopper mode).


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Are you truly expecting our government to murder us all? And for what purpose? What you say about the government makes no sense whatever.


It's never about expecting it. No one ever expects it. Except maybe the founding Fathers, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Maybe they, expected it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Walay rasa said:


> Well all I know is that Prince has explained the chemtrail phenomena, so if he says it, it's true.


The celebrity currently known as Nuts? Yes, it's true.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What a crock of BS. Liberals have created the situation in these cities and need to take a good long look in the mirror before continuing to label Republicans as the only racists. White liberals treat their fellow black, brown, Asian liberals as lower class members. White privilege is alive and well and thriving in the Democratic Party.


Racism crosses party, economic, ethnic, religious, and class lines. We are responsible for our reactions and judgements of other people. There is institutional and national racism. We need to recognize and admit to the problems are as individuals and as a society work to solve the problem. I work hard to examine my actions and take responsibity for them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What a crock of BS. Liberals have created the situation in these cities and need to take a good long look in the mirror before continuing to label Republicans as the only racists. White liberals treat their fellow black, brown, Asian liberals as lower class members. White privilege is alive and well and thriving in the Democratic Party.


soloweygirl
duck, my frying pan is sailing in your direction (mind you, the cast iron one). You are so crazy.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How so?


It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.

This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's never about expecting it. No one ever expects it. Except maybe the founding Fathers, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Maybe they, expected it.


Knitter from Nebraska
are you serious thinking that perhaps the founding Fathers could have foreseen how we are living today? Really?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How come all of Europe, as well as Canada and Australia, haven't been killed by their governments, who instead offer their citizens medical care, paid parental leave, long vacations and short work-weeks? Gun ownership is very well controlled in those countries.
> 
> Your knowledge of history seems to cover only the worst things that have happened in the past century. Somehow you skipped everything between Hitler and the Patriot Act.


Poor Purl
she is suffering from convenient forgetfulness or just plain never learned a lot of things.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.
> 
> This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


And who is responsible for poverty level wages, jobs outsourced to other countries, the unaffordable cost of the most basic health care, underfunding of schools, underfunding of infrastructure maintenance, and I am steamed enough just mentioning those factors marginalizing the poor and "keeping them in their place".


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


Knitter from Nebraska
Greed created Slums. When jobs went abroad, things became unraveled and fast. Try to get into the real world, PLEASE.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's never about expecting it. No one ever expects it. Except maybe the founding Fathers, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Maybe they, expected it.


They most certainly DID NOT expect the government to set about murdering citizens in the way you suggest.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Are you truly expecting our government to murder us all? And for what purpose? What you say about the government makes no sense whatever.


DGreen
Plenty of what she says make NO sense at all.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


SQM
time and patience will achieve that. Think about it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> It's time to unwatch. I've seen enough stupidity about this damned gun argument to last a lifetime. I'm finding it completely disgusting and offensive that some are very content to allow children to be slaughtered as collateral damage, as long as their "rights" aren't infringed. I'm sickened by the whole thing.


aw9358
and so are we and therefore we will keep on working to bring about change. It won't be easy nor swift but it will happen. Never give in or give up.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> she is suffering from convenient forgetfulness or just plain never learned a lot of things.


When you have generations of rich, slick con(artist)servatives feeding the public their pap, people get to believe whatever they are told. And get to think they are right even if it flies in the face of all common sense.

Read what our friends from Oz tell us about sensible gun laws and think - sure there are many more of us but we can do it and take control of society and make this a safer country. We probably look like idiot barbarians to the rest of the world.

The racist undermining of our duly elected President, guns in the hands of the mentally unstable, 99% of the country's wealth in the hands of 1% of the population, do not make us look like a country of particularly astute people.

And to blame the liberals makes me think of the kid who broke the lamp and blamed the little brother in the other room.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's never about expecting it. No one ever expects it. Except maybe the founding Fathers, who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Maybe they, expected it.


We have to remember that the Founding Fathers view on life was that white Protestant Christian males or their fellows who were deists were the entitled members of society and everyone else was there to serve them. There were slave owners among them. Beside Abigail Adams, we don't hear of the founding mothers having much of a say, either. Many of them probably would have fit right in with the 1%.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.
> 
> This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


So the liberals, in an attempt to provide affordable and decent housing DELIBERATELY intended that the residents would never be able to move away?

Let me remind you that progressive ideas gave us the Fair Housing Act intended to stop the blatant racism that kept those of color from buying homes in "white" areas. Passed at the urging of Lyndon B. Johnson as part of his civil rights agenda. Are you going to try to convince me that the Civil Rights Act was enacted to keep minorities dependent?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> time and patience will achieve that. Think about it.


That makes no sense. That sounds very passive and will take a zillion years to achieve. The horse has been let out of the barn and will be hard to get it back in.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> That makes no sense. That sounds very passive and will take a zillion years to achieve. The horse has been let out of the barn and will be hard to get it back in.


SQM
with your negative attitude nothing can be accomplished. My glass is always at least half full.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


SQM
take some time and think ahead and see what you can come up with. I see change - may take longer than we like, but I see it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just take a look at the leadership of those cities for the last 5 or so decades and compare that to the decline. I didn't say liberals created gangs and the violence, those are your words. Education is under the control of the leaders of the city. It certainly has failed in Detroit and isn't thriving in Chicago for the poor, which leads to their economic disadvantage. Again, look to the leadership and you will have your answer.


soloweygirl
glad you mentioned Detroit. It tells all about your skewed take on things.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Walay rasa said:


> Exactly. The issue was with Solo's verbiage, not with anyone elses comprehension skills.
> 
> She misspoke. No good reason to blame Huckleberry for that.


Walay rasa 
I take no blame since I have none. She screwed up her sentence and I caught it. Knowing her, she still is not sure what she said.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Slums existed for centuries before liberalism even raised its head, from ancient times to now. It stems from more money being held at the top than in the rest of the population. From the "little guy" being ground down. And it is worse now in our country than it has ever been.


sumpleby
BINGO.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Walay rasa said:


> Oh, put your big girl panties on and get over it.


Walay sara
Yes.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> take some time and think ahead and see what you can come up with. I see change - may take longer than we like, but I see it.


Absolutely, Huck. It took some 350 years for slavery to be abolished in North America--100 years to eliminate Jim Crow segregation. I'm sure people in those eras despaired, but change did come and we are all the better for it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.
> 
> This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


I am going to take a break. I can't read all this without wanting answer. Just once sentence. At least we care about the poor. More than a lot of Americans from what I can see.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.
> 
> This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


Knitter from Nebraska
since government housing is hard to find these days, who do you think are the Slum Lords now? And by the way, government housing was built by Greedy who shortchanged us, the taxpayers by using inferior materials which under normal use could not last any length of time. Ever been in those High Rise multiple-wides and -highs? The cheapest Trailers are of better quality.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely, Huck. It took some 350 years for slavery to be abolished in North America--100 years to eliminate Jim Crow segregation. I'm sure people in those eras despaired, but change did come and we are all the better for it.


susanmos2000
thank you. It won't take 350 years, only about 2 or 3 generations and change will be apparent. In the meantime strict gun laws will be necessary to make that possible.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> thank you. It won't take 350 years, only about 2 or 3 generations and change will be apparent. In the meantime strict gun laws will be necessary to make that possible.


Strict laws and people willing and able to enforce them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Strict laws and people willing and able to enforce them.


"Willing and able", yes that's a key phrase. Why the heck AREN'T existing gun laws enforced? Store owners get hammered if a minor buys booze or a pack of cigarettes--why aren't the folks at gun shows (for example) held to the same standards?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Willing and able", yes that's a key phrase. Why the heck AREN'T existing gun laws enforced? Store owners get hammered if a minor buys booze or a pack of cigarettes--why aren't the folks at gun shows (for example) held to the same standards?


susanmos2000
outstanding observation. Something to work on and diligently.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was the liberals who built the projects and gave the poor, just enough to make them dependent, but never enough to be able to escape. Those projects were never maintained properly and crime was allowed to flourish. The money would have been better spent, by getting people jobs that would allow them to own their own homes.
> 
> This is not to say that liberals are responsible for ALL slums. But they're certainly responsible for some.


The projects are your idea of "slums"? Boy, are you in the dark. My family lived in the projects until I was about 15. It was a decent apartment. There was a laundry room and also storage bins in the basement, and each apartment had its own bathroom and kitchen.

What most working-class people lived in before that came along was a walkup railroad flat (you had to walk through one room to get to the next, so privacy was rare), with most windows facing the next building and a 3 or 4 foot airshaft between. In some of those buildings the bathrooms were in the hallway, shared by everyone living on that floor. In some the bathtub was in the kitchen, and in most there was a washtub so mothers could handwash the family's clothes. These buildings were built with minimum materials and maximum people per square foot. And that was after the progressive Tenement Act forced landlords to place toilets _inside_ the buildings and to give every apartment windows to the outside.

The projects were built because of pressure by liberals, true, but they were a huge improvement over what preceded them. Where was the money to come from to allow everyone to buy a home? The govt. was still dealing with seeing that everyone had something to eat, and apparently the congressional conservatives think they're getting too much. Sure, I can see those compassionate guys paying for homes for moochers, and black ones at that. But blame it all on the liberals, because they were trying to keep families alive and therefore couldn't give them homes.

Geez, now I know what led Andy Borowitz to write that piece he called _Many in Nation Tired of Explaining Things to Idiots._ http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/many-in-nation-tired-of-explaining-things-to-idiots


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Strict laws and people willing and able to enforce them.


SQM
the enforcement is key.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> she is suffering from convenient forgetfulness or just plain never learned a lot of things.


Huck, I think it's the latter. I think there's a limit to how much you can learn on the internet, even if everything you read there is true. Too often, it's not.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The projects are your idea of "slums"? Boy, are you in the dark. My family lived in the projects until I was about 15. It was a decent apartment. There was a laundry room and also storage bins in the basement, and each apartment had its own bathroom and kitchen.
> 
> What most working-class people lived in before that came along was a walkup railroad flat (you had to walk through one room to get to the next, so privacy was rare), with most windows facing the next building and a 3 or 4 foot airshaft between. In some of those buildings the bathrooms were in the hallway, shared by everyone living on that floor. In some the bathtub was in the kitchen, and in most there was a washtub so mothers could handwash the family's clothes. These buildings were built with minimum materials and maximum people per square foot. And that was after the progressive Tenement Act forced landlords to place toilets _inside_ the buildings and to give every apartment windows to the outside.
> 
> ...


Poor Purl
thank you for the excellent lesson to those who are totally uninformed what Government Housing was and is all about.
KFN has been living in a cocoon without windows to see the real world.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And who is responsible for poverty level wages, jobs outsourced to other countries, the unaffordable cost of the most basic health care, underfunding of schools, underfunding of infrastructure maintenance, and I am steamed enough just mentioning those factors marginalizing the poor and "keeping them in their place".


Blaming all those on liberals is like blaming the Recession of 2008 on Obama. And the deficit, which was a gift to him, and all of us, from his predecessor.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> That makes no sense. That sounds very passive and will take a zillion years to achieve. The horse has been let out of the barn and will be hard to get it back in.


Not if we get serious about destroying all illegally owned guns and having buy-back programs for the legally owned but unwanted ones.

You're saying that America isn't capable of solving this problem. Just for that, here's another gift.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> with your negative attitude nothing can be accomplished. My glass is always at least half full.


Then you need to drink more, Huck.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


Effectively run gun amnesties will reap many of those guns. The government buys back the guns and destroys them. It may take periodic amnesties over a long period but people will come forward and surrender their guns.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> How will we solve this problem if we do nothing?


I don't understand the inaction. This has been a festering problem for such a long time and still, nothing has been done.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not if we get serious about destroying all illegally owned guns and having buy-back programs for the legally owned but unwanted ones.
> 
> You're saying that America isn't capable of solving this problem. Just for that, here's another gift.
> 
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Effectively run gun amnesties will reap many of those guns. The government buys back the guns and destroys them. It may take periodic amnesties over a long period but people will come forward and surrender their guns.


Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Mean One. Saw the title and did not watch.
> 
> Am I saying that America isn't capable of solving the gun problem? I am saying that America is uninterested and unwilling to solve the gun problem. If nada was done after Sandy Hook, in fact if nada was done after the Kennedys were killed and less guns were available to crackpots, then I do despair that anything will be done now. And I am not being negative as Huckle claimed. More time on the news tonight was spent on the rag flag than on gun issues. The media is turning our attention away from what really matters.


It's a sad realization that inanimate objects are given priority over the lives of human beings.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> thank you for the excellent lesson to those who are totally uninformed what Government Housing was and is all about.
> KFN has been living in a cocoon without windows to see the real world.


Don't think it remained the paradise it was when we lived there. The buildings I lived in were 6 stories, with 5 apartments to a floor. The later ones are 20+ stories with a few dozen apartments to a floor. And crime certainly became a problem. Still, for the families who need them, they're way better than living in a homeless shelter.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


Criminals and the like did it here. As I said, you'd be amazed at how happy people are to be paid to surrender their guns. For money.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Effectively run gun amnesties will reap many of those guns. The government buys back the guns and destroys them. It may take periodic amnesties over a long period but people will come forward and surrender their guns.


Exactly. And people seem to want them, as do police. But gun manufacturers have Congress on their side; I believe buy-backs are now not permitted, at least in some states.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't understand the inaction. This has been a festering problem for such a long time and still, nothing has been done.


The law prevents it. Crazy, I know, but this is how things are now in this country.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Mean One. Saw the title and did not watch.
> 
> Am I saying that America isn't capable of solving the gun problem? I am saying that America is uninterested and unwilling to solve the gun problem. If nada was done after Sandy Hook, in fact if nada was done after the Kennedys were killed and less guns were available to crackpots, then I do despair that anything will be done now. And I am not being negative as Huckle claimed. More time on the news tonight was spent on the rag flag than on gun issues. The media is turning our attention away from what really matters.


Chicken. It starts by saying nice things about Chicago. It's also very schmaltzy - seriously, you may enjoy it.

As to the rest of your message, you may be right. I hope not, because it's time we did something, but too much is working against sane gun control.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


No, they'll have to do it involuntarily.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Criminals and the like did it here. As I said, you'd be amazed at how happy people are to be paid to surrender their guns. For money.


But you must be lying. Solow says it won't work, and she's always right.

Wait, I must be in a daze. No, she's rarely right. Ask her about the GDP, if you want a laugh.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


Yes, and law-abiding citizens are very often the ones hurt when they're careless, forget that there's a bullet left in the chamber, or leave a gun out where a child can find it. I'd love it if every gun owner (whether legal or not) participated in a buy-back or amnesty program, but if it saves even one child's life then it's worth it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't understand the inaction. This has been a festering problem for such a long time and still, nothing has been done.


I think Americans want a quick and easy fix for the gun problem, but it simply doesn't exist.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then you need to drink more, Huck.


Poor Purl
cute. I have wondered a time or two what it must feel like being snookered.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Effectively run gun amnesties will reap many of those guns. The government buys back the guns and destroys them. It may take periodic amnesties over a long period but people will come forward and surrender their guns.


Wombatnomore
and at least those guns will not wind up in bad hands.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And who is responsible for poverty level wages, jobs outsourced to other countries, the unaffordable cost of the most basic health care, underfunding of schools, underfunding of infrastructure maintenance, and I am steamed enough just mentioning those factors marginalizing the poor and "keeping them in their place".


MarilynKnits
let us shout it: "the Republicans". Making such terrible decisions makes them feel superior is my guess. In the meantime they are destroying our Country.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> When you have generations of rich, slick con(artist)servatives feeding the public their pap, people get to believe whatever they are told. And get to think they are right even if it flies in the face of all common sense.
> 
> Read what our friends from Oz tell us about sensible gun laws and think - sure there are many more of us but we can do it and take control of society and make this a safer country. We probably look like idiot barbarians to the rest of the world.
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


SQM
why do you keep looking for excuses rather than solutions?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Chicken. It starts by saying nice things about Chicago. It's also very schmaltzy - seriously, you may enjoy it.
> 
> As to the rest of your message, you may be right. I hope not, because it's time we did something, but too much is working against sane gun control.


I listened for a minute and it was too sad even tho I love music from the 40s. Do not even think of sending me "New York State of Mind."


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> why do you keep looking for excuses rather than solutions?


Because I have none to offer. If anyone does, my mind is open to it. But of course my mind being open has nothing to do with reality. Get our government's mind open to new solutions. Plus I am not offering excuses, Huckle. I am just observing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't think it remained the paradise it was when we lived there. The buildings I lived in were 6 stories, with 5 apartments to a floor. The later ones are 20+ stories with a few dozen apartments to a floor. And crime certainly became a problem. Still, for the families who need them, they're way better than living in a homeless shelter.


Poor Purl
I know those awful High Rises all too well. Had to visit there now and then under Guard. Too many unemployed with nothing to look forward to but poverty breeds contempt. Luckily in some Cities they have been torn down and replaced with much smaller buildings. Those are working out so much better. JOBS is what we need or nothing will get better and the rich will be living in their own Prisons called Enclaves with armed Guards at every door.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The law prevents it. Crazy, I know, but this is how things are now in this country.


Poor Purl
peg those Politicians who support the Gun Industry and replace them. First step in the proper direction. It will work.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think Americans want a quick and easy fix for the gun problem, but it simply doesn't exist.


susanmow2000
Americans want everything yesterday unfortunately. I am happy with a start to try and fix it and am convinced that we can and will fix it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> peg those Politicians who support the Gun Industry and replace them. First step in the proper direction. It will work.


But Americans do not want to give up their guns. I have two friends that keep guns - they are both elderly. One I know for sure cannot even shoot. I tell her to bring it in but she changes the topic. The other one is an Evil Republican and I would not even ask her. Americans do not want to give up their guns.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Because I have none to offer. If anyone does, my mind is open to it. But of course my mind being open has nothing to do with reality. Get our government's mind open to new solutions. Plus I am not offering excuses, Huckle. I am just observing.


SQM
strictly enforced gun laws will be a start, the rest will follow. Walk (or crawl) with me and things will change. Giving up is not an option.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> But Americans do not want to give up their guns. I have two friends that keep guns - they are both elderly. One I know for sure cannot even shoot. I tell her to bring it in but she changes the topic. The other one is an Evil Republican and I would not even ask her. Americans do not want to give up their guns.


SQM
somehow it gives many a false security. Most Guns kept at home will NEVER keep anybody safe. Who wants to have a loaded Gun strapped to themselves 24/7? Nobody and therefore they are of little or no value unloaded on the night stand. A dog no matter how little is a better option.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Because I have none to offer. If anyone does, my mind is open to it. But of course my mind being open has nothing to do with reality. Get our government's mind open to new solutions. Plus I am not offering excuses, Huckle. I am just observing.


Again, gun control is a serious problem in American society and is worthy of a serious, multi-prong approach. Throw the book at folks who cause tragedy by leaving guns around for their children to find. Slap extra charges on for committing crimes with illegal weapons. Buyback and amnesty programs. A massive campaign to convince law-abiding folks that they really don't need a locker full of Uzis and cases of ammunition. Go after folks who lie on their weapon applications or make /benefit from "straw" purchases. Free or heavily subsidized government-approved safety courses. Business owners discouraging patrons from bringing in their weapons in those places where open carry is legal.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> somehow it gives many a false security. Most Guns kept at home will NEVER keep anybody safe. Who wants to have a loaded Gun strapped to themselves 24/7? Nobody and therefore they are of little or no value unloaded on the night stand. A dog no matter how little is a better option.


Yes, a loud noisy dog (big or small) and an decent alarm system. Those would be my choices any day--no matter how dire the situation was I'm not sure I could manage to pull the trigger before the home invader simply reached over and took the gun away from me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> But Americans do not want to give up their guns. I have two friends that keep guns - they are both elderly. One I know for sure cannot even shoot. I tell her to bring it in but she changes the topic. The other one is an Evil Republican and I would not even ask her. Americans do not want to give up their guns.


SQM
it is the mentality that is doing a job on so many gun owners. They have been undergoing brainwashing without even knowing it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, a loud noisy dog (big or small) and an decent alarm system. Those would be my choices any day--no matter how dire the situation was I'm not sure I could manage to pull the trigger before the home invader simply reached over and took the gun away from me.


susanmos2000
I bet that when confronted with some Monster, any of us would be so shaken that we most likely shoot at ourselves if we could manage to shoot at all.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Again, gun control is a serious problem in American society and is worthy of a serious, multi-prong approach. Throw the book at folks who cause tragedy by leaving guns around for their children to find. Slap extra charges on for committing crimes with illegal weapons. Buyback and amnesty programs. A massive campaign to convince law-abiding folks that they really don't need a locker full of Uzis and cases of ammunition. Go after folks who lie on their weapon applications or make /benefit from "straw" purchases. Free or heavily subsidized government-approved safety courses. Business owners discouraging patrons from bringing in their weapons in those places where open carry is legal.


susanmos2000
you are so smart.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> We need to stop with the everyone's guilty of racism crap. While 'technically' true, it's not ultimately true. Some are more guilty than others, namely Conservatives, and some have put MUCH more work into ending racism than others, namely Liberals.
> 
> Of course, that does not mean that there aren't exceptions on both sides, but it does no good to proffer inaccuracy and false equivalences when having an HONEST discussion on race. It's good to know which brand of thinking has been historically correct.
> 
> ...


June 21 was the anniversary of the murders of Goodman, Chaney, and Schwerner, who were signing up voters. The heroes of the Confederacy were fighting to keep people enslaved. Raising the flag to celebrate them is spitting on the graves of the three young liberals.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> strictly enforced gun laws will be a start, the rest will follow. Walk (or crawl) with me and things will change. Giving up is not an option.


Much has been written on this thread regarding stricter gun control so please excuse a Sandgroper, that is a resident of Western Australia, if she puts her tuppence forward. I am going to post information on gun regulations that are in place in Western Australia. I will also provide a link to enable you to read the full explanation of these regulations, together with the licencing fees that apply.

Western Australians had to have a gun licence before other states in Australia. I had friends who moved to Western Australia from Victoria in the 1960s. They were farmers. They did not need a gun licence in Victoria when they lived there but they had to apply for a gun licence when they moved to Western Australia.

A gun licence is only for 12 months, it must be renewed every year.

I would like to bring your attention to these points in particular -

	*You must have a genuine reason to own a firearm* - this includes being a member of a shooting club, being a recreational shooter, being a collector or having an occupational requirement such as a pastoralist or security firm properly licensed under the Security and Related Activities (Control) Act 1996.

	Persons applying for an original licence are required to complete a Firearms Awareness Test at an approved firearm association/club and to complete a 28-day cooling off period after making their application before it can be considered.

Licence information - what you need to know
	Persons wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearm Licence.

	A licence may be issued to either an individual person or to a body corporate such as a security company (incorporated body).

	You must have a genuine reason to own a firearm - this includes being a member of a shooting club, being a recreational shooter, being a collector or having an occupational requirement such as a pastoralist or security firm properly licensed under the Security and Related Activities (Control) Act 1996.

	Persons applying for an original licence are required to complete a Firearms Awareness Test at an approved firearm association/club and to complete a 28-day cooling off period after making their application before it can be considered.

	You must have secure storage for your firearm that complies with Schedule 4 of the Firearm Regulations 1974.

	The firearm will be registered to a licensee only, unless it is also licensed by another person; in which case the licence will be endorsed with either 'primary user' or 'co-user' This notation identifies that more than one person is licensed for this particular firearm.

	You are required to provide proof that supports your genuine need to acquire a firearm.

	Some firearms are restricted or prohibited. See the Firearms Regulations 1974 - Reg 26 and Firearms Regulations 1974- Schedule 3.

	HTML Firearm Licence application forms can be obtained by accessing the Online services page.

	After completion, the application summary must be printed and lodged in person at a participating Australia Post Office.

	All firearms must be accompanied with a Serviceability Certificate, which is obtained by the seller.

	Any change of address or circumstance must be reported to Police Licensing Services within 21 days of the change.

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Ourservices/PoliceLicensingServices/Firearms/Licenceinformation/tabid/1902/Default.aspx

If you are interested I would suggest you look at the link because it goes into additional details regarding fees, what is considered a genuine reason or need to own a fire arm, as well as other details relating to the owning of firearms.

Please read it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You obviously don't understand Huckleberry. The sentence "Everyone who wants a gun is not able to purchase one legally" means "*all* people who want guns can't purchase them legally" (logically equivalent to "nobody who wants a gun can purchase them legally.")
> 
> That's probably not what you mean to say.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I defy anyone to try to be more clear than this. Thanks Purl.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> *I recommend the following article, which compares our so-called gun control legislation with that in other civilized countries. Among other things.
> *http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-simple-truth-about-gun-control?intcid=mod-most-popular
> 
> What would you say are the "underlying problems" when a 4-year-old picks up a loaded gun and shoots his mother? Or when an otherwise normal-seeming person walks into a movie theater and shoots a dozen people? Do you think we should let the killing go on while we solve those problems?


This response hasn't worked so far, but maybe repetition will change the result. (Satire.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Personally I feel that the Confederate Flag should have disappeared many years ago. Now I see it as almost a diversion...like abortion and gay marriage. We are left debating diversionary issues while 'War or Peace' issues linger in the background.



Walay rasa said:


> You're not making any sense to me. Was Roof's crime supposed to go unreported?
> 
> Or if you're saying his identity should be secret ... are you saying that these other racists need his specific identity to hero worship him? If his identity was secret, they'd just create a fantasy hero that would be even more powerful and toxic than the real thing.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Onward!



Walay rasa said:


> You keep repeating that and never question it
> 
> MANY of those "less than law abiding" don't bother when it's made more difficult.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Liberals have created gangs, gang violence, economic disadvantage, poor education and high rates of incarceration of those of color? Liberals have created slums?
> 
> Please elaborate. I would love to hear the rationale behind your statement that liberals have created "the situation in these cities"


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Good go.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Besides, even though we have other laws, there are those who break them. Does it logically follow that we should have no laws?
> 
> In a word, NO.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please elaborate. Things are much more clear to you. I don't understand your statement at all.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You cannot deny that liberals created slums!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Who's 'she?'



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's being overrun by new identities. It's getting old. I'm tired of it. At least she could stick to one at a time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. The keyboard is the keyboard of Soloweygirl, but the ideas are the ideas of the NRA. (A little biblical showing off.)


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The rationale is obviously that if you repeat a lie often enough, the weak-minded will come to believe it. But she'll probably blame Welfare, Medicaid, homeless shelters, ....


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They've already started. Note the chemtrails. But I'm guessing the reason is so the ones who survive will be slaves to the governing corporation.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put!



Walay rasa said:


> Yeah but Donald Sterling was a 'job creator"!
> 
> This is what happens, in most situations. Conservatives suck the life out of and sabotage liberal efforts, skip or are run out out of town and liberals are left to pick up the pieces and people like Solo and KFN blame the liberals for it.
> 
> It's like an episode of Law and Order where a murderer shoots someone, runs away, a concerned citizen performs CPR but fails ... and then gets arrested for murder.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How come all of Europe, as well as Canada and Australia, haven't been killed by their governments, who instead offer their citizens medical care, paid parental leave, long vacations and short work-weeks? Gun ownership is very well controlled in those countries.
> 
> Your knowledge of history seems to cover only the worst things that have happened in the past century. Somehow you skipped everything between Hitler and the Patriot Act.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Or like a version of Father Bush Knows Best, where Bud messes up the family's economy to the point where Princess and the other daughter can't fix it and get blamed for the mess they were trying to repair. (It's a stretch, I'll admit.)


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Funny try.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Walay rasa said:


> Besides, the citizens of Germany and Austria decided to have what is considered among the strictest gun control legislation in the world, and they also have the lowest murder rates in Europe. So that is how they reacted to WWII.
> 
> They DON'T want what we have in the US.
> 
> ...


...no one knows.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> It's time to unwatch. I've seen enough stupidity about this damned gun argument to last a lifetime. I'm finding it completely disgusting and offensive that some are very content to allow children to be slaughtered as collateral damage, as long as their "rights" aren't infringed. I'm sickened by the whole thing.


Please come home.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> A refreshing change since we have been overrun with people who have simplistic answers to all our woes. When we get different views and opinions we can weigh thoughts and facts and perhaps come up with workable solutions to our problems.
> 
> And one of the problems is that guns are too easily available to every nut looking for them. If there were better background checks and fewer guns on the streets there wouldn't be as many nutcases like the one who shot up the theater or the one who killed all those children. This Root person strikes me as more similar to the Boston Marathon killer in that he festered in ethnic hatred and planned a cold attack on innocents.
> 
> Sometimes you are not as smart as you think you are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: My experience is that she is never smart at all, much less as smart as she thinks. IMHO :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And my answer is you have to start somewhere. Offer money for turning in guns. Full background check for all. No private sales at gun shows. MOST of all, we must stop the NRA from fighting every tiny change...even when needed and reasonable. These people do not have our best interests in mind.



SQM said:


> I would love to see something done so another tragedy would not happen. But how are you going to get fewer guns on the street when the streets are already flooded?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Walay rasa said:


> Well all I know is that Prince has explained the chemtrail phenomena, so if he says it, it's true.


 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> And who is responsible for poverty level wages, jobs outsourced to other countries, the unaffordable cost of the most basic health care, underfunding of schools, underfunding of infrastructure maintenance, and I am steamed enough just mentioning those factors marginalizing the poor and "keeping them in their place".


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Reasonable thoughts. Bravo.



DGreen said:


> So the liberals, in an attempt to provide affordable and decent housing DELIBERATELY intended that the residents would never be able to move away?
> 
> Let me remind you that progressive ideas gave us the Fair Housing Act intended to stop the blatant racism that kept those of color from buying homes in "white" areas. Passed at the urging of Lyndon B. Johnson as part of his civil rights agenda. Are you going to try to convince me that the Civil Rights Act was enacted to keep minorities dependent?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I am going to take a break. I can't read all this without wanting answer. Just once sentence. At least we care about the poor. More than a lot of Americans from what I can see.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"The media is turning our attention away from what really matters." Think about it.




SQM said:


> Ha Ha Mean One. Saw the title and did not watch.
> 
> Am I saying that America isn't capable of solving the gun problem? I am saying that America is uninterested and unwilling to solve the gun problem. If nada was done after Sandy Hook, in fact if nada was done after the Kennedys were killed and less guns were available to crackpots, then I do despair that anything will be done now. And I am not being negative as Huckle claimed. More time on the news tonight was spent on the rag flag than on gun issues. The media is turning our attention away from what really matters.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I repeat. You must start somewhere. 



SQM said:


> Law abiding citizens who no longer feel the need to protect themselves will turn in their guns, but criminals? Gang members? Black marketers? Fat chance.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo. Good to hear.



Rhyddfrydol said:


> Peacegoddess. I respect many of your opinions on this topic and understand that for the most part we're on the same side here.
> 
> That's right that we must ALL take responsibility for our own actions as individuals and be willing to honestly self examine no matter which 'side' you're on.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> No, it's Liberals who wanted to build the neighborhoods, and it's the conservatives that fought to give the project less and less money so that they were stuck between a rock and a hard place.
> 
> Have you heard of the "Binge and Purging' or "Starving/Feeding of" the Beast?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But you must be lying. Solow says it won't work, and she's always right.
> 
> Wait, I must be in a daze. No, she's rarely right. Ask her about the GDP, if you want a laugh.


No, won't be doing that. It always ends unpleasantly with Solo! Anyway, her perception of percentages is infuriating! :mrgreen:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think Americans want a quick and easy fix for the gun problem, but it simply doesn't exist.


Clearly the gun lobby/NRA has a massive grip on the politicians and unfortunately, the politicians choose to covet their careers over their constituents. It seems President Obama is right in saying that true gun control won't happen until the American people want it and THEY do something about it. Bit of a catch 22 situation: we want it but we don't want to have to do anything about it. Desire v complacency.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> and at least those guns will not wind up in bad hands.


That's the beauty of it Huck. There is finality for the guns.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> That makes no sense. That sounds very passive and will take a zillion years to achieve. The horse has been let out of the barn and will be hard to get it back in.


It is too true that eventually people run out of patience. Empty promises for change, or the perception that those promises are empty only fuels impatience.

And a small sop becomes less and less acceptable when people see the gap between haves and have-nots increasing and see continued and increasing evidence of bigotry.

If the will of the majority is not respected and acted upon, there can be much more unrest and trouble ahead. With the proliferation of guns in this country that makes me very trepidatious. "Trepidacious", no, it scares the he** out of me.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely, Huck. It took some 350 years for slavery to be abolished in North America--100 years to eliminate Jim Crow segregation. I'm sure people in those eras despaired, but change did come and we are all the better for it.


Is Jim Crow really dead? I am afraid he is wearing a pretty mask and still active in too many places.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Mean One. Saw the title and did not watch.
> 
> Am I saying that America isn't capable of solving the gun problem? I am saying that America is uninterested and unwilling to solve the gun problem. If nada was done after Sandy Hook, in fact if nada was done after the Kennedys were killed and less guns were available to crackpots, then I do despair that anything will be done now. And I am not being negative as Huckle claimed. More time on the news tonight was spent on the rag flag than on gun issues. The media is turning our attention away from what really matters.


Unfortunately what America wants is not always what elected officials do. And why do we elect these people? Political parties decide who the candidates will be in most cases, based on party loyalty and adherence to the party line - and money is a huge factor. Our choices are usually the lesser of the evils.

My opinion is that people who would be really good elected officials don't want to get down in the dirt and be subject to all sorts of smears and innuendo. And most do not bring in big money because the leaders we need and want do not suck up to the wealthy interests and get no financial support to run an effective campaign.

Laws are written by the legislators who want to preserve their status quo, not work for the good of their constituents except in little cosmetic ways that they can crow about.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

http://www.commoncause.org/research-reports/whose-government-whose-voice/gun-control.html

About the NRA buying politicians and legislation.

It's time to OVERURN CITIZENS UNITED AND MAKE LOBBYING ILLEGAL


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Clearly the gun lobby/NRA has a massive grip on the politicians and unfortunately, the politicians choose to covet their careers over their constituents. It seems President Obama is right in saying that true gun control won't happen until the American people want it and THEY do something about it. Bit of a catch 22 situation: we want it but we don't want to have to do anything about it. Desire v complacency.


Absolutely, Wombatnomore. It took the Roof massacre for many Americans to see that hateful Confederate flag for what it is--I don't even want to speculate on what horror or tragedy we as a nation will have witness before folks lay down their weapons.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> http://www.commoncause.org/research-reports/whose-government-whose-voice/gun-control.html
> 
> About the NRA buying politicians and legislation.
> 
> It's time to OVERURN CITIZENS UNITED AND MAKE LOBBYING ILLEGAL


I'd look this up Green but I'm tired. I assume the NRA have plenty to gain in terms of keeping itself and it's membership relevant and happy but what else is in it for them?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely, Wombatnomore. It took the Roof massacre for many Americans to see that hateful Confederate flag for what it is--I don't even want to speculate on what horror or tragedy we as a nation will have witness before folks lay down their weapons.


I was wondering that today too. I thought that the violence of 9/11 would have galvanized the American politicians into reviewing weapons at the very least. Granted, the heightened homeland security and intelligence has probably circumvented even worse disasters however, but not the worst of the worst, the fear of what's ahead.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'd look this up Green but I'm tired. I assume the NRA have plenty to gain in terms of keeping itself and it's membership relevant and happy but what else is in it for them?


They get lots of money from the gun manufacturers. Which they spend on lobbying for gun proliferation. It's always about the bottom line.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Peacegoddess. I respect many of your opinions on this topic and understand that for the most part we're on the same side here.
> 
> That's right that we must ALL take responsibility for our own actions as individuals and be willing to honestly self examine no matter which 'side' you're on.
> 
> ...


Rhyddfrydol
So eloquently stated. Thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> http://www.commoncause.org/research-reports/whose-government-whose-voice/gun-control.html
> 
> About the NRA buying politicians and legislation.
> 
> It's time to OVERURN CITIZENS UNITED AND MAKE LOBBYING ILLEGAL


DGreen
if WE THE PEOPLE count, it will be overturned. Looking at today's decision of the Supreme Court re. ACA, there is hope that the Court heads back to neutral and protects us. Plenty of signatures are being gathered to press for overturning Citizens United. Wonder who came up with that deceiving Title.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I was wondering that today too. I thought that the violence of 9/11 would have galvanized the American politicians into reviewing weapons at the very least. Granted, the heightened homeland security and intelligence has probably circumvented even worse disasters however, but not the worst of the worst, the fear of what's ahead.


Wombatnomore
the majority certainly is for stricter gun controls but as soon as we unite to do something about it, other horrible gun deaths are facing us and we are getting sidetracked once again.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> the majority certainly is for stricter gun controls but as soon as we unite to do something about it, other horrible gun deaths are facing us and we are getting sidetracked once again.


Someone on another thread posted these words to me in response to my post about strict Australian gun laws.



> When Australia banned guns in 1997 the gun violence decreased 10% and knife/sharp object violence increased 10%, and the criminals still get and have guns. Sexual assults have increased 51% since 1995 at an average of 4% per year, rape is much safer for the rapist now that a woman can't arm herself. Personally I would like to shoot the penis off of a rapist


So the *illogical* conclusion to stricter gun controls will mean that sexual assaults will increase by over 50% because stricter gun laws will mean rape is much safer for the rapist. Honestly. Very few, if any, women in Australia ever went armed in public.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> So the *illogical* conclusion to stricter gun controls will mean that sexual assaults will increase by over 50% because stricter gun laws will mean rape is much safer for the rapist. Honestly. Very few, if any, women in Australia ever went armed in public.


Adding further to the illogical conclusion of that person is the fact that *most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts. *


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Adding further to the illogical conclusion of that person is the fact that *most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows and trusts. *


The basis of my reply to her was "You are cherry picking your facts and deliberately misinterpreting them. You seem to have fallen prey to misinformation, especially how the NRA and pro-gun Americans abuse Australian crime stats."

I makes me really angry when people choose to do that and then expect people to pat them on the back and tell them what wonderful research skills they have.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> The basis of my reply to her was "You are cherry picking your facts and deliberately misinterpreting them. You seem to have fallen prey to misinformation, especially how the NRA and pro-gun Americans abuse Australian crime stats."
> 
> I makes me really angry when people choose to do that and then expect people to pat them on the back and tell them what wonderful research skills they have.


A good description of the republican circle-jerk.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Oh, it was? How sad I must have never heard it or I would've been thinking of them on that day.
> 
> Blegch. just that flag being up during the service today seemed so obscene to me.
> 
> Nikkie Haley could've taken it down if she wanted.


But, as she said, no CEO asked that it be removed, so she didn't remove it.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But, as she said, no CEO asked that it be removed, so she didn't remove it.


Satire alert: 

Such class, such empathy for people's sorrow, and on and on and etcetera.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Clearly the gun lobby/NRA has a massive grip on the politicians and unfortunately, the politicians choose to covet their careers over their constituents. It seems President Obama is right in saying that true gun control won't happen until the American people want it and THEY do something about it. Bit of a catch 22 situation: we want it but we don't want to have to do anything about it. Desire v complacency.


The complacency is very ingrained. They have given the people bread and circuses, and too many are satisfied with that. If only the majority were as energized as the Tea Party, something might get done.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> Well, there is _*a*_ solution and that is to cut way down on the proliferation of guns.
> 
> Did you know that 40% of guns are sold with NO background checks ---- FORTY PERCENT.
> 
> ...


A greater MORON than the one that wrote about BLACKS? Gotya!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But, as she said, no CEO asked that it be removed, so she didn't remove it.


Poor Purl
I think that her tears were for herself for being in a pickle or she would have taken the decent approach and remove the Flag. Had I been in her shoes, I would have climbed that Flag Pole to remove the Rag myself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that her tears were for herself for being in a pickle or she would have taken the decent approach and remove the Flag. Had I been in her shoes, I would have climbed that Flag Pole to remove the Rag myself.


That's why you're an artist/pilot and she's the governor of the great state of South Carolina.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's why you're an artist/pilot and she's the governor of the great state of South Carolina.


Poor Purl
that makes me never want to be a Governor.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> that makes me never want to be a Governor.


Yes, what is that woman's private name? Miss Government?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Yes, what is that woman's private name? Miss Government?


MarilynKnits
it again shows how Politicians are manipulated once they are in Office. An other reason that I would NEVER fit into that crowd. And always having to read from a GOP script using THEIR particular vocabulary? My spirit cannot be harnessed by anyone.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's why you're an artist/pilot and she's the governor of the great state of South Carolina.


Poor Purl
believe me, if I could not climb that Pole I certainly would try to circle it and try to grab the Flag from above. I know, a little low for legal flying but what the heck, it is worth giving it a try and get away with it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is the wisest thing I've read on this thread, in days. All of you who want to eliminate our right to own guns, will live to regret your words! More people have died from democide (murder by government), than from any other cause. And while you may think that it could never happen here, it can happen anywhere. Read the patriot acts, the ndaa, the executive orders, army manuals. Our government is already preparing for it. Never has our country experienced such division, such hatred. Read what German and Austrian citizens have to say. No one thought it could happen there either. People are deceived. But in EVERY case of democide, FIRST, THEY TOOK AWAY THE GUNS! History repeats itself! People who can't defend themselves become victims!


Thank you. It's good to know someone else gets it. We repeat history because we don't learn from it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's being overrun by new identities. It's getting old. I'm tired of it. At least she could stick to one at a time.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Walay rasa said:


> Well black people look at the mirror and MOST of them see a liberal looking back at them.
> 
> It's the systemic racism that conservatives employ and wantonly disenfranchises blacks that has caused the issues in cities *and black people know it, which is why most of them vote AGAINST conservatives.*
> 
> ...


Rubbish.

In Detroit over the weekend a black man opened fire on a group of black people. 1 dead and 12 wounded. Why doesn't a story like this make national attention the same way the killings in SC did? Simply because it is black on black crime. It only gets national attention if it is white on black crime. It appears the new slogan for liberals of #BlackLivesMatter is just another load of hogwash. Your party needs to stop using Blacks and turn that effort into helping them. Change/fix the racist qualities within yourselves before labeling others.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> And who is responsible for poverty level wages, jobs outsourced to other countries, the unaffordable cost of the most basic health care, underfunding of schools, underfunding of infrastructure maintenance, and I am steamed enough just mentioning those factors marginalizing the poor and "keeping them in their place".


Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. If you want a better paying job you need to learn skills that would provide you with one. A company sets the wages for the jobs offered. Entry level jobs are just that an entry into the job market and world of business. Learn skills that will make you valuable to your company and you will be offered better jobs in the future. Outsourced jobs came with bad trade agreements and as such, are a no win for us. Infrastructure maintenance was to come from the tax on gasoline and tolls where applicable. What happened to it, who knows - most likely spent on pet projects of various politicians. Each side will blame the other and nothing will be accomplished. Nothing new there.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> When you have generations of rich, slick con(artist)servatives feeding the public their pap, people get to believe whatever they are told. And get to think they are right even if it flies in the face of all common sense.
> 
> Read what our friends from Oz tell us about sensible gun laws and think - sure there are many more of us but we can do it and take control of society and make this a safer country. We probably look like idiot barbarians to the rest of the world.
> 
> ...


Your first paragraph describes the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson to a tee. They certainly have people fooled, both black and white.

Are you saying that liberals have no responsibility in the state this country is currently in? What Nancy Pelosi said about passing the ACA in order to find out what is in the bill was so irresponsible it's unbelievable. What went through their minds to vote in favor of a bill as important as that and not read it first? If that wasn't enough recent irresponsibility, Congress wanted to do the same with the latest trade bill.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Mean One. Saw the title and did not watch.
> 
> Am I saying that America isn't capable of solving the gun problem? I am saying that America is uninterested and unwilling to solve the gun problem. If nada was done after Sandy Hook, in fact if nada was done after the Kennedys were killed and less guns were available to crackpots, then I do despair that anything will be done now. And I am not being negative as Huckle claimed. More time on the news tonight was spent on the rag flag than on gun issues. The media is turning our attention away from what really matters.


I think you are on to something there SQM. Uninterested and unwilling to do away with an American culture. The whole entertainment industry would take a big hit. Movies are all about special effects. What sells more tickets, huge gun battles, terrific explosions, killing zombies, etc or feel good movies? Gamers only want the most violent games, nothing else compares. Even Elliot Ness and all the larger than life crime bosses had their shoot outs - Hollywood style. Guns will always be available from one source or another.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I think you are on to something there SQM. Uninterested and unwilling to do away with an American culture. The whole entertainment industry would take a big hit. Movies are all about special effects. What sells more tickets, huge gun battles, terrific explosions, killing zombies, etc or feel good movies? Gamers only want the most violent games, nothing else compares. Even Elliot Ness and all the larger than life crime bosses had their shoot outs - Hollywood style. Guns will always be available from one source or another.


You betcha. When sex in films become blah, the Hollywood establishment turned to violence and they keep upping the ante ever since. This is a violent country. It built itself on violence and genocide and it will be hard to change that foundation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> that makes me never want to be a Governor.


I don't think you - or any of us here - need to worry about that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Yes, what is that woman's private name? Miss Government?


MisRule? MisUnderstood? Wait, MisChief. That's it!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> believe me, if I could not climb that Pole I certainly would try to circle it and try to grab the Flag from above. I know, a little low for legal flying but what the heck, it is worth giving it a try and get away with it.


Didn't Governor Palin fly low in order to hunt wolves? You wouldn't be the only lowdown governor.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you. It's good to know someone else gets it. We repeat history because we don't learn from it.


If "we" learn only the the most sensational episodes of history, we've learned nothing. And you prove it, by repeating yourself over and over and over and ....


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Rhyddfrydol said:


> No, it's because it's only one of thousands of same race violence, white or black that happened this week and ALWAYS has happened in disenfranchised communities since the inception of America.
> 
> Why _would_ any particular story like that get special attention from the media?
> 
> ...


Why shouldn't it get attention? Why is black on black crime any less worthy of bringing to the attention of the country? Is it just because it only involved blacks? The media would be all over a shooting by a white person at a KKK party, for different reasons. The shooter killed 1 and wounded 12. Would he have been able to do that if he didn't have a gun? Maybe he should have been a better shot and killed everyone. That might have gotten more attention. It's gun violence, which is what is being discussed.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> In Detroit over the weekend a black man opened fire on a group of black people. 1 dead and 12 wounded. Why doesn't a story like this make national attention the same way the killings in SC did? Simply because it is black on black crime. It only gets national attention if it is white on black crime. It appears the new slogan for liberals of #BlackLivesMatter is just another load of hogwash. Your party needs to stop using Blacks and turn that effort into helping them. Change/fix the racist qualities within yourselves before labeling others.


I asked you earlier, name a couple of Democrats who do what you accuse them of and it might be possible to take you seriously. Otherwise I'll accept what you say at face value, and your face should be bright red.

Dylann Roof didn't simply shoot a group of black people. He was ranting about the damage he claimed black people were doing to white people. If you think that's parallel to a black man shooting at other black people, you really need a brain transplant. (Am I abusing you? You bet I am! I've always hated dumbth, and now I'm doing something about it.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Your first paragraph describes the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson to a tee. They certainly have people fooled, both black and white.
> 
> Are you saying that liberals have no responsibility in the state this country is currently in? What Nancy Pelosi said about passing the ACA in order to find out what is in the bill was so irresponsible it's unbelievable. What went through their minds to vote in favor of a bill as important as that and not read it first? If that wasn't enough recent irresponsibility, Congress wanted to do the same with the latest trade bill.


This is what Pelosi said:

Youve heard about the controversies, the process about the billbut I dont know if youve heard that it is legislation for the future  not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, she told the National Association of Counties annual legislative conference, which has drawn about 2,000 local officials to Washington. But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it * away from the fog of the controversy*.

Please, tell us all why that's irresponsible.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I think you are on to something there SQM. Uninterested and unwilling to do away with an American culture. The whole entertainment industry would take a big hit. Movies are all about special effects. What sells more tickets, huge gun battles, terrific explosions, killing zombies, etc or feel good movies? Gamers only want the most violent games, nothing else compares. Even Elliot Ness and all the larger than life crime bosses had their shoot outs - Hollywood style. Guns will always be available from one source or another.


Now that's a good idea. Give everyone who wants one a virtual gun. Also tickets to adventure movies, violent video games, etc. At least no one gets killed.

Wouldn't you think (I won't even make the obvious cheap joke here) that if people were longing to see all that stuff, they'd want it even more, not less, when real guns were harder to get? It would be a windfall for the entertainment industry. But geez, the parts of "American culture" you think are so important you're willing to risk children's lives to keep them! You want the inmates to run the asylum.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> You betcha. When sex in films become blah, the Hollywood establishment turned to violence and they keep upping the ante ever since. This is a violent country. It built itself on violence and genocide and it will be hard to change that foundation.


You're lucky you're halfway across the country, because I could easily ride out to Roosevelt Island and give you the violence you seem to want.

Seriously, do you think the law should be revised so that shooting off people's heads (as in The Walking Dead) or spearing them with swords (Game of Thrones) was acceptable?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You're lucky you're halfway across the country, because I could easily ride out to Roosevelt Island and give you the violence you seem to want.
> 
> Seriously, do you think the law should be revised so that shooting off people's heads (as in The Walking Dead) or spearing them with swords (Game of Thrones) was acceptable?


Dear Mrs. Helmsley,

I am certainly not advocating violence. I am saying you are a dreamer to think anything is going to change so easily. Violence is embedded into our entertainment to such an extent. I was playing online solitaire and in between hands, a very violent ad came on for a video game - something called Tanks Blitz. I can imagine what type of ad would appear if I were playing a competitive game.

I am not afraid of you, Helmsley. Thanks for making me sad with those pics of my old 'hood. I once heard that walking in Manhattan in the summer is like walking in someone's mouth. I would feel even worse if I saw the pics in October.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Dear Mrs. Helmsley,
> 
> I am certainly not advocating violence. I am saying you are a dreamer to think anything is going to change so easily. Violence is embedded into our entertainment to such an extent. I was playing online solitaire and in between hands, a very violent ad came on for a video game - something called Tanks Blitz. I can imagine what type of ad would appear if I were playing a competitive game.
> 
> I am not afraid of you, Helmsley. Thanks for making me sad with those pics of my old 'hood. I once heard that walking in Manhattan in the summer is like walking in someone's mouth. I would feel even worse if I saw the pics in October.


I never heard that (about someone's mouth), but it's a pretty good description. Is it much cooler and dryer in Chicago?

 Please don't make fun of Leona. She must have gone to heaven because she left a lot of money for cats. Or was it dogs?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I never heard that (about someone's mouth), but it's a pretty good description. Is it much cooler and dryer in Chicago?
> 
> Please don't make fun of Leona. She must have gone to heaven because she left a lot of money for cats. Or was it dogs?


Cooler near the lake.

Dogs.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is what Pelosi said:
> 
> Youve heard about the controversies, the process about the billbut I dont know if youve heard that it is legislation for the future  not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, she told the National Association of Counties annual legislative conference, which has drawn about 2,000 local officials to Washington. But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it * away from the fog of the controversy*.
> 
> Please, tell us all why that's irresponsible.


What is irresponsible is editing quotes out of context to make them conform to what the editor's agenda is. Like the blurbs about movies like _Plan 9_ "This movie is an unbelievablestinker." "I have seen wonderful performances, but you won't find any here" You get the idea.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

penyerahan said:


> And their ability to successfully do so, is a direct result of economic policies and conditions.
> 
> The free market does not protect human and civil rights. That is our job.
> 
> When the free market and economic policies make, it impossible for workers to obtain a fair wage, then government SHOULD step in and protect the human beings suffering.


It also depends upon people receiving a decent relevant education. When schools in poorer neighborhoods are not in as good physical condition as schools in wealthier neighborhoods, when school supplies are not distributed equitably in a community, people are handicapped in gaining the skills that qualify them for better jobs. When there is an undercurrent of racism people are handicapped in gaining jobs or achieving promotions for which they are eligible.

There are many subtle ways management weasels out of promoting people they want to hold down. If I heard "You are overqualified for this position" one more time then saw a young man who was not nearly as qualified as I get the job I may have gone ballistic.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

penyerahan said:


> Again, you are making the racist claim that black people are too stupid to know what's best for themselves.
> 
> My political ideology IS in great part the same as MOST black people. Why are you presuming they are racist against themselves!? And they, to a huge majority, reject your kind of 'help' because THEY see it as racist much of the time.
> 
> ...


There you go again! Talking as if you KNOW how "most black people" think! You have NO idea how "most black people" think! Would you PLEASE stop assuming that you know how they think! You're so busy calling others racists, that you refuse to see it in yourself! Whatever excuse you tell yourself, doesn't excuse your thinking that "most black people" think alike. Black people are as varied as any other group. To speak as if you know how they feel, is bigoted and disgusting! They're individuals, and deserve to be treated as such!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. If you want a better paying job you need to learn skills that would provide you with one. A company sets the wages for the jobs offered. Entry level jobs are just that an entry into the job market and world of business. Learn skills that will make you valuable to your company and you will be offered better jobs in the future. Outsourced jobs came with bad trade agreements and as such, are a no win for us. Infrastructure maintenance was to come from the tax on gasoline and tolls where applicable. What happened to it, who knows - most likely spent on pet projects of various politicians. Each side will blame the other and nothing will be accomplished. Nothing new there.


Hogwash. More to come on the topic.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> In Detroit over the weekend a black man opened fire on a group of black people. 1 dead and 12 wounded. Why doesn't a story like this make national attention the same way the killings in SC did? Simply because it is black on black crime. It only gets national attention if it is white on black crime. It appears the new slogan for liberals of #BlackLivesMatter is just another load of hogwash. Your party needs to stop using Blacks and turn that effort into helping them. Change/fix the racist qualities within yourselves before labeling others.


Liberals are "using" blacks?

You'll need to be more specific if you want to appear to have an intelligent argument. The statement, as it stands, is a meaningless barb.

It would also be helpful to detail ways that the current republican majority has been helping blacks or other people of color - or fighting racism - if you wish to make a valid comparison.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

penyerahan said:


> Agreed. Excellent points.
> 
> Sometimes 'overqualified' is code for 'too old' or "we want to pay $#!t" or "I just want to hire my bro".


Told you "us girls" are smart! In my case I was handling accounts nobody else understood and they didn't want to promote me out of that job. Until the company had a huge lay off and moved my job to a lower paying division. After my replacement screwed the job up to where the largest contract customer threatened to leave and lodge a complaint. So I got a call asking whether I would come back. I told them sure, as an outside private contractor at $100 an hour. DEAD silence, "thanks, we'll get back to you", click and I was done with them forever. Lucky for them my old boss was another smart lady and hands on, she knew everybody's jobs and could cover for any of us. She needed the job, and they got her back from lay off at her old management salary.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Don't hold your breath and turn blue waiting for an answer that holds up under scrutiny.



DGreen said:


> Liberals are "using" blacks?
> 
> You'll need to be more specific if you want to appear to have an intelligent argument. The statement, as it stands, is a meaningless barb.
> 
> It would also be helpful to detail ways that the current republican majority has been helping blacks or other people of color - or fighting racism - if you wish to make a valid comparison.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cooler near the lake.
> 
> Dogs.


Then I hope she's rotting in Hell.

How near the lake are you? (It's cooler here near the ocean, but it takes an hour to get to the ocean.)


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Then I hope she's rotting in Hell.
> 
> How near the lake are you? (It's cooler here near the ocean, but it takes an hour to get to the ocean.)


Across the street.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> What is irresponsible is editing quotes out of context to make them conform to what the editor's agenda is. Like the blurbs about movies like _Plan 9_ "This movie is an unbelievablestinker." "I have seen wonderful performances, but you won't find any here" You get the idea.


But Plan 9 _is_ an unbelievable stinker. On the other hand, Pelosi said pretty much the opposite of what the cons claim she said. And they will repeat it over and over forever, leaving out 2/3 of her statement.

Oops, it just dawned on me what you were doing. The red part is what appears in ads, but the black, white, and red is what the critic actually said. Well, I'm a bit slow today. I've been trying to be logical with Solow.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Across the street.


I hope it is east of you. I found being south of the lake within two or three blocks is not fun on cold windy days. Not sure whether east of the lake gets lake effect snow the way Buffalo does from little Lake Erie.

The main thing I envy you is being that close to the Museum of Science and Industry. I still have a mind's eye view of the Colleen Moore doll house and the chick hatchery and the coal mine.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I hope it is east of you. I found being south of the lake within two or three blocks is not fun on cold windy days. Not sure whether east of the lake gets lake effect snow the way Buffalo does from little Lake Erie.
> 
> The main thing I envy you is being that close to the Museum of Science and Industry. I still have a mind's eye view of the Colleen Moore doll house and the chick hatchery and the coal mine.


Yes I am east of the lake. Everyone here is. Supposedly it will be warmer in the winter but once you move a couple of blocks west, the weather changes. You are dating yourself. The hatchery is long gone. The rest is still there. As a kid my favorite was the gigantic washing machine. It is no longer there 'cause it is no longer a novelty, obviously.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But Plan 9 _is_ an unbelievable stinker. On the other hand, Pelosi said pretty much the opposite of what the cons claim she said. And they will repeat it over and over forever, leaving out 2/3 of her statement.
> 
> Oops, it just dawned on me what you were doing. The red part is what appears in ads, but the black, white, and red is what the critic actually said. Well, I'm a bit slow today. I've been trying to be logical with Solow.


Better luck being logical with a two year old.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes I am east of the lake. Everyone here is. Supposedly it will be warmer in the winter but once you move a couple of blocks west, the weather changes. You are dating yourself. The hatchery is long gone. The rest is still there. As a kid my favorite was the gigantic washing machine. It is no longer there 'cause it is no longer a novelty, obviously.


Well, drat. Is the walk through heart still there? It was sort of creepy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. If you want a better paying job you need to learn skills that would provide you with one. A company sets the wages for the jobs offered. Entry level jobs are just that an entry into the job market and world of business. Learn skills that will make you valuable to your company and you will be offered better jobs in the future. Outsourced jobs came with bad trade agreements and as such, are a no win for us. Infrastructure maintenance was to come from the tax on gasoline and tolls where applicable. What happened to it, who knows - most likely spent on pet projects of various politicians. Each side will blame the other and nothing will be accomplished. Nothing new there.


"Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. A company sets the wage for the job offered."

That statement is wrong, wrong, wrong.

You imply that there is some intrinsic value to work that the employer has the "right" to set and only by increasing one's education or skill should that wage be increased.

Evidently you have never heard of the law of supply and demand.

If the employer has more applicants than jobs, he can reduce the pay he offers to a point where no one will take the job. Of course, if enough people are out of work, he can enjoy the benefit of paying very little and getting a lot in return, thereby increasing his profit.

If there are more jobs than applicants, wages rise as employers compete to find workers to fill his needs. A good example of this was post-WWII when employers offered insurance and other benefits in order to "sweeten" the appeal for applicants.

Then there is the scenario where employers conspire to suppress wages and the workers are squeezed to functional slavery. You might want to read (or re-read) "The Grapes of Wrath" to see how that works.

If you want to look at professional athletes, the owners certainly don't set the wages. They pay astronomical sums for exceptional talent because of the limited quantity of world-class players. Supply and demand.

This is all off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many sources and studies that would provide a more comprehensive analysis of the multiple factors that go into setting wages. Of one thing I am certain; the value of work is not solely determined by the employer, though employers will take every possible advantage to exploit workers to their own benefit. Every. Single. Time. Having worked in Human Resources I've seen this in action consistently, regardless of the company or industry, size or demographic.

Unions have been instrumental in balancing the playing field for millions of workers and for creating the middle class that benefits not only workers, but industry and the country as a whole. As wages rise, demand for goods and services rise, tax revenue rises, industries thrive and the country thrives. The systematic destruction of unions is a critical factor in our economic woes. Your claim that employers set the value of work is a tea-party, 1% conservative, industry-formulated glass of Kool-Aid from which you seem to have drunk deeply.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Well, drat. Is the walk through heart still there? It was sort of creepy.


Not sure. I have not been there yet but visited a few years ago. I think it is gone since it is old hat, I mean old heart. Are we being selfish holding this conversation and boring others from other places?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There you go again! Talking as if you KNOW how "most black people" think! You have NO idea how "most black people" think! Would you PLEASE stop assuming that you know how they think! You're so busy calling others racists, that you refuse to see it in yourself! Whatever excuse you tell yourself, doesn't excuse your thinking that "most black people" think alike. Black people are as varied as any other group. To speak as if you know how they feel, is bigoted and disgusting! They're individuals, and deserve to be treated as such!


There have been polls, and the answers have been published. All penyerahan said was that a large percentage held particular opinions, which anyone could look up. I realize that you have a close relationship with a family of black people, but I suspect you don't know any more about their opinions on controversial subjects than penyerahan does. When the Supreme Court cut out parts of the Voting Rights Act, I asked how your dil's mother felt about it, and you had no idea and didn't seem interested in finding out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

penyerahan said:


> Would you PLEASE stop pretending Liberals don't have a good idea what many blacks think. Most blacks are Liberally minded.
> 
> That's just a fact.
> 
> ...


...or have no interest in what they have to say.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

penyerahan said:


>


Thank you.

There is so much more to the claims made by solo.

I'm particularly offended because many of us know there is the male/female worker dynamic that is still in play in this country. I have personal experience with that one. Women are valued less and I've been in jobs that were IDENTICAL to those occupied by males with similar tenure but I was paid MUCH less. Lilly Ledbetter could speak to the fact that employers often go to great lengths to make wages secret so they can get away with such mean-spirited and illegal practices.

Then there is wage theft. As a payroll professional, I can state unequivocally that I've never worked for an employer who DIDN'T steal wages. Thieves and scoundrels abound. But that is definitely off topic. Sorry.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I asked you earlier, name a couple of Democrats who do what you accuse them of and it might be possible to take you seriously. Otherwise I'll accept what you say at face value, and your face should be bright red.
> 
> Dylann Roof didn't simply shoot a group of black people. He was ranting about the damage he claimed black people were doing to white people. If you think that's parallel to a black man shooting at other black people, you really need a brain transplant. (Am I abusing you? You bet I am! I've always hated dumbth, and now I'm doing something about it.)


Poor Purl
now you understand why I hurled the frying Pan to land upside the head to shake some sense into it. But then, an empty skull can't absorb anything, can it. I am with you, when meeting dumb I cringe and hear sounds like a nail on a blackboard. Painful, very painful.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Across the street.


Really? I think you made a smart move. How about this?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Better luck being logical with a two year old.


And two year olds are way more polite.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thank you.
> 
> There is so much more to the claims made by solo.
> 
> ...


DGreen
not only are women being shortchanged, I had an experience were some Colleague voiced that I did not need a raise since I had a husband. Don't want to reveal how I handled that little Napoleon.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But Plan 9 _is_ an unbelievable stinker. On the other hand, Pelosi said pretty much the opposite of what the cons claim she said. And they will repeat it over and over forever, leaving out 2/3 of her statement.
> 
> Oops, it just dawned on me what you were doing. The red part is what appears in ads, but the black, white, and red is what the critic actually said. Well, I'm a bit slow today. I've been trying to be logical with Solow.


Poor Purl
do not waste any more time with her. It is useless.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Not sure. I have not been there yet but visited a few years ago. I think it is gone since it is old hat, I mean old heart. Are we being selfish holding this conversation and boring others from other places?


I am finding it interesting. You are talking about a museum, are you not? We do not have anything as fascinating as what you are describing. In fact our museum in Perth seems to have gone backwards. The number of exhibitions has definitely shrunk since I was a child, it has been said that most of the items they hold are in storage. We still need to build a new museum, the 'new' one we build several decades ago had to be demolished because they discovered asbestos had been used in the construction. We did have an excellent private museum in Guildford with an old fashioned chemist and dentist surgery in the exhibitions. Unfortunately it was sold and the exhibits auctioned off, I think the owner went bankrupt and it had to be sold. We also had an excellent private museum down south, mainly old furniture and fittings imported from the UK. There was a bed that Queen Elizabeth 1 slept in. The museum was listed as a tourist attraction, but that was also closed and the exhibits sold at auction. So please discuss further. A walk through heart, etc sounds fascinating.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? I think you made a smart move. How about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I am finding it interesting. You are talking about a museum, are you not? We do not have anything as fascinating as what you are describing. In fact our museum in Perth seems to have gone backwards. The number of exhibitions has definitely shrunk since I was a child, it has been said that most of the items they hold are in storage. We still need to build a new museum, the 'new' one we build several decades ago had to be demolished because they discovered asbestos had been used in the construction. We did have an excellent private museum in Guildford with an old fashioned chemist and dentist surgery in the exhibitions. Unfortunately it was sold and the exhibits auctioned off, I think the owner went bankrupt and it had to be sold. We also had an excellent private museum down south, mainly old furniture and fittings imported from the UK. There was a bed that Queen Elizabeth 1 slept in. The museum was listed as a tourist attraction, but that was also closed and the exhibits sold at auction. So please discuss further. A walk through heart, etc sounds fascinating.


You can google "The Museum of Science and Industry Chicago" and can see it for yourself. I hope Eliz 1 was not alone. I like the sounds of your museums. Too bad they are gone.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Now that is better, Ms. Pleasant. But the stock yards are long gone and Sinatra says Chicago wrong - it is Chic-aw-go, not Chic-ah-go. Don't let me hear you say Chic-ah-go.


Okay, you won't hear me say it, though that's how I pronounce it. Sinatra's from New Joisey, so what do you expect?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am finding it interesting. You are talking about a museum, are you not? We do not have anything as fascinating as what you are describing. In fact our museum in Perth seems to have gone backwards. The number of exhibitions has definitely shrunk since I was a child, it has been said that most of the items they hold are in storage. We still need to build a new museum, the 'new' one we build several decades ago had to be demolished because they discovered asbestos had been used in the construction. We did have an excellent private museum in Guildford with an old fashioned chemist and dentist surgery in the exhibitions. Unfortunately it was sold and the exhibits auctioned off, I think the owner went bankrupt and it had to be sold. We also had an excellent private museum down south, mainly old furniture and fittings imported from the UK. There was a bed that Queen Elizabeth 1 slept in. The museum was listed as a tourist attraction, but that was also closed and the exhibits sold at auction. So please discuss further. A walk through heart, etc sounds fascinating.


Oh, how I wish you could spend some time with some of us here. We are truly in museum heaven.

When D and I were in college in New York City, one of his courses required a weekly visit to a museum for a semester. It was through his department, and I was sort of the kid sister to the guys in the Industrial Arts department, and the instructor liked me, so I was able to go too. I was lucky I did not have a conflicting class scheduled. Museum of Modern Art, Metropolitan Museum, the Whitney, the Cloisters, it was heaven.

We went back of other occasions when we married and had children to take, when D's army buddy and his family from Ohio visited, any opportunity. And when I was in high school in Illinois, there were class trips to Chicago and we went to the Museum of Science and Industry, a museum of natural history and an art museum.

D and I visited the Smithsonian and air plane museums in Ohio and Florida and the circus museum in Sarasota.

Now that it is hard for us to walk for hours, we have memories to share of places we have been and things we have done. We are lucky to have met young and shared as much adventure as we have.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, you won't hear me say it, though that's how I pronounce it. Sinatra's from New Joisey, so what do you expect?


My husband's friend from Chicago pronounces his a's ah in sort of a nasal tone and would say Chic-ah-go with the emphasis on the middle syllable. Now I am confused.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband's friend from Chicago pronounces his a's ah in sort of a nasal tone and would say Chic-ah-go with the emphasis on the middle syllable. Now I am confused.


My niece and nephew, raised in Gloucester, MA, would laugh at their mother, raised in Brooklyn, whenever she said Boston, coffee or chocolate, because the o's came out as aws. They said Bahston, cahffee, and chocklit. One day I got into a conversation with a woman at a bus stop and asked her where she was from. She said "Bawston." She explained "We natives say Bawston, even though outside the city it's called Bahston."

We're all confused.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, how I wish you could spend some time with some of us here. We are truly in museum heaven.
> 
> When D and I were in college in New York City, one of his courses required a weekly visit to a museum for a semester. It was through his department, and I was sort of the kid sister to the guys in the Industrial Arts department, and the instructor liked me, so I was able to go too. I was lucky I did not have a conflicting class scheduled. Museum of Modern Art, Metropolitan Museum, the Whitney, the Cloisters, it was heaven.
> 
> ...


I did not know you were from Illinois. What place?


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## annamatilda (Aug 10, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true--but then those slobs immediately reveal themselves as loathsome racist by hoisting that abomination. Kind of like those who still use the "n" word.


Just like 0bama, on live radio.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

annamatilda said:


> Just like 0bama, on live radio.


There is a big difference between using the n-sord as an example and using it in daily life. Something that eludes RW commentators for some reason.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

annamatilda said:


> It is a word, period. If the president of the US can use it in any way. Then anyone can use it. 0bama is PC or is he no better than any other ***.


You are an ugly person and I just happily, very happily, reported this post to the admin. Good bye forever, I hope, Annematilda.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

penyerahan said:


> Well, in regards to the prevailing and persistent atmosphere of prejudice that the Right wing seems desperately invested in denying ... there's still a thread of commonality there.
> 
> I agree. I'm sorry, but this whole notion of individual workers having much if any real power to negotiate their wages is just ludicrous and necessitates a special capacity for delusion.


Individuals in the higher echelons have that power. They are in the minority.

There is no denying that education can be a key to higher earnings - but that door is being slammed shut too.

Years ago when working for a very big aerospace manufacturer, one of the clerical staff was successful in getting her degree so she could get a higher level job. The degree was SPECIFIC to the qualifications she needed. The company congratulated her on her effort, promoted her, then told her she could not actually leave the clerical position and assume her new duties because they "needed" her where she was. She didn't get a raise, either. As I recall, they never did let her move up. Lying bastards.

May of you ladies will probably also recognize the truth that a woman can't be promoted until she as ACTUALLY PERFORMED the duties of the higher level job. Conversely, a man will be promoted on his "potential."

Back in my youth, I worked for Scottsdale Schools in the Purchasing Department as a clerk. One of the buyers was fired, so his workload was thrown at me; it consisted of purchasing (through the bidding process) all athletic equipment, uniforms, etc., for 4 high schools and 19 elementary schools. Which I did. I drew up the bid, the specs, had bid openings, analyzed the results and even typed the purchase orders (the buyer never had to do the legwork, but I did). I presented the finished orders to the Purchasing Agent and he signed off on the entire stack of orders without questioning a single item.

When I applied for the job I was told that I would not be considered because they would be hiring a man. So I quit on the spot. (This was late 60's or early 70's and I had burned my bra and joined the Women's Lib movement).


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

penyerahan said:


> Would you PLEASE stop pretending Liberals don't have a good idea what many blacks think. Most blacks are Liberally minded.
> 
> That's just a fact.
> 
> ...


The difference between you and me is that I DO listen to them! You just believe whatever you want.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

annamatilda said:


> It is a word, period. If the president of the US can use it in any way. Then anyone can use it. 0bama is PC or is he no better than any other ***.


Can you possibly be any more stupid?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Can you possibly be any more stupid?


I am sure she can. Please, Bright,report this offensive post also to the admin so it can be deleted and hopefully the person with it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

penyerahan said:


> It's amazing. The more thing change the more they stay the same.
> 
> In the 60's my mother, widowed, caring for her child, her aging widowed mother and ill sister was told the same thing by her boss.
> 
> ...


Penyerahan
I sure hope that your Mom spoke up. I made my position VERY clear. Crystal clear in fact and of course got the raise.
By the way the little Napoleon got a divorce, married rather quickly again and got divorced and I had plenty of "fun" with him until he got the boot. Being married gave me some power and I often spoke up for women when they were scared to death to do so for fear of losing their employment. Having a husband in a secure position certainly gave me strength. We could always manage without my pay and landing another job was never difficult for me. I wish every person could make that statement.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> There is a big difference between using the n-sord as an example and using it in daily life. Something that eludes RW commentators for some reason.


sumpleby
so sad that how the President used that certain word properly to make a point, has escaped the media and many other folks altogether. Language skills are terribly poor in this country.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

annamatilda said:


> It is a word, period. If the president of the US can use it in any way. Then anyone can use it. 0bama is PC or is he no better than any other ***.


annamatilda
you know, you revealed that you are lacking a great deal and your language tells us how low on the humanity ladder you reside. Enjoy your meager mentality.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Can you possibly be any more stupid?


DGreen
she is too stupid to know that she is stupid.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There have been polls, and the answers have been published. All penyerahan said was that a large percentage held particular opinions, which anyone could look up. I realize that you have a close relationship with a family of black people, but I suspect you don't know any more about their opinions on controversial subjects than penyerahan does. When the Supreme Court cut out parts of the Voting Rights Act, I asked how your dil's mother felt about it, and you had no idea and didn't seem interested in finding out.


It's no secret that polls are scewed towards the position of those who commissioned them. I've not specifically asked anyone (black or white) how they feel about the Voting Rights Act. The subject has not come up in conversation. But I DO know how they feel about Obama and his programs. Some like him/them and some do not. I also know some just vote for the freebies. But what I know more than anything else, is that they all have their own opinions! They don't think a certain way just because their skin is black!

And as to "penyerahan", why are you playing games? Why don't you just call her lisa? Everybody knows it's her and she'll be back with a new name tomorrow (or in five minutes). So what's the point in pretending?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> ...or have no interest in what they have to say.


So? You read a poll, and that makes you "interested"?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thank you.
> 
> There is so much more to the claims made by solo.
> 
> ...


I agree with this! But I was wondering what you meant by employers stealing wages? I used to work payroll as well, but never saw any irregularities, other than men making more than women.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So? You read a poll, and that makes you "interested"?


I would think it would depend who organized the poll. Are you saying she shouldn't be interested by a poll?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I would think it would depend who organized the poll. Are you saying she shouldn't be interested by a poll?


What I'm saying is, that polls are designed to say, what whomever is paying for them, wants them to say. I'm also saying there are other very real ways to be interested, than by quoting polls.

Hi, Shirley! How have you been feeling?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The difference between you and me is that I DO listen to them! You just believe whatever you want.


Just to be generous, I'll guess that you listen to about a dozen black people. That tells you something about the black people you know but nothing about black people in general. As has been pointed out, polls listen to thousands and probably have more information than you do.

Would voting statistics mean anything to you? Clearly black voters came out for Obama in large numbers, but John Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 2004, and Al Gore got 90% in 2000. What does that tell you about the political leanings of black people?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Just to be generous, I'll guess that you listen to about a dozen black people. That tells you something about the black people you know but nothing about black people in general. As has been pointed out, polls listen to thousands and probably have more information than you do.
> 
> Would voting statistics mean anything to you? Clearly black voters came out for Obama in large numbers, but John Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 2004, and Al Gore got 90% in 2000. What does that tell you about the political leanings of black people?


Tells me that the majority of black voters vote for their best interests and that is to usually vote for Democrats and maybe Bernie Sanders. :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's no secret that polls are scewed towards the position of those who commissioned them. I've not specifically asked anyone (black or white) how they feel about the Voting Rights Act. The subject has not come up in conversation. But I DO know how they feel about Obama and his programs. Some like him/them and some do not. I also know some just vote for the freebies. But what I know more than anything else, is that they all have their own opinions! They don't think a certain way just because their skin is black!
> 
> And as to "penyerahan", why are you playing games? Why don't you just call her lisa? Everybody knows it's her and she'll be back with a new name tomorrow (or in five minutes). So what's the point in pretending?


I'll call her what she chooses to be called. And btw, not every new person who sounds like a liberal is Lisa.

Nobody said any group all think the same way, only that they have the same leanings. Of course they differ on specific items. So do we here. But if 90% of a particular group voted for a Democrat, we can safely say that a majority (51%) lean left. You set up a straw man and then think you've knocked it down. But you prove nothing.

Of course you've never talked about the Voting Rights Act. It's obviously of no interest to you, so the people you speak to won't open the topic either. Your friends know what you think about it, if in fact you think about it at all.

And what on earth do you mean by "some just vote for the freebies"? That's quite a putdown, don't you think?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So? You read a poll, and that makes you "interested"?


No, I'm interested, so I may read a poll. Actually, I'm less interested in polling than in the social interactions, so I read many things.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What I'm saying is, that polls are designed to say, what whomever is paying for them, wants them to say. I'm also saying there are other very real ways to be interested, than by quoting polls.
> 
> Hi, Shirley! How have you been feeling?


I would guess that conversations with individuals are about as skewed as you can get. Truthfully, do you ever argue with friends over anything more serious than movies or tv?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with this! But I was wondering what you meant by employers stealing wages? I used to work payroll as well, but never saw any irregularities, other than men making more than women.


If employers are not paying equal wages to women who hold the same position and have the same experience and education as a man what are they doing but stealing these women's wages? What would you call it?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Tells me that the majority of black voters vote for their best interests and that is to usually vote for Democrats and maybe Bernie Sanders. :thumbup:


So now you're saying that they all think exactly alike, and you can read minds?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with this! But I was wondering what you meant by employers stealing wages? I used to work payroll as well, but never saw any irregularities, other than men making more than women.


Wage theft refers to a policy many businesses have of not paying workers for all the time they put in. For example, going to a meeting may be required, but if it's outside business hours, they don't get paid. Employers violate minimum wage and overtime laws, erasing work hours and wrongfully taking employees tips - out and out theft.

It's been in the news for quite a while. Here's a short, simple piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wage theft refers to a policy many businesses have of not paying workers for all the time they put in. For example, going to a meeting may be required, but if it's outside business hours, they don't get paid. Employers violate minimum wage and overtime laws, erasing work hours and wrongfully taking employees tips - out and out theft.
> 
> It's been in the news for quite a while. Here's a short, simple piece:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html


Teachers are a prime example of this. My ex was a high school teacher for a brief period and my daughter teaches nursing so I do know what I am talking about. Teachers spend many, many hours of their own time after their working day, marking assignment, planning classes, attending P & C meetings, attending school functions, organising and running sports carnivals on non school days, attending 'information for parents and pupils' nights. This is just a few of the activities that the teachers perform after their working day is finished and they do not receive pay for these attendances of tasks. Other examples of wage theft could include picking up the mail from the post office before work or delivering mail to the post office after work, on a daily basis and the time spent in doing this is not included in the hours worked. Often this involves a deviation from the direct route from the home to the work place but the employee is not compensated for the petrol used in the mail run. I worked in a public library and the library closed at 8.00 p m so I was paid up to 8.00 pm. Did I ever get away at 8.00 p m, never. The doors closed at 8.00 pm which meant that no one could come into the library after 8.00 p m but sometimes it took up to 15 minutes to process the people who were still in the library at 8.00 p m. Then we had to close the computer systems down and make sure no one was in the toilets, make sure no one was asleep somewhere, make sure everything was safe and secure. No we could not close the doors earlier, the opening hours were 9.00 am to 8.00 pm. Many a night it was well after 8.30 p m before we knocked off. OK, it is only half an hour a day but that adds up over the pay fortnight and our wages were over $25.00 Monday to Saturday and time and a half on Sundays so over time those extra half hours would amount to $$$$s.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

penyerahan said:


> I would presume, knowing Pearl and the way she is, it's because she's aware that other people reading the thread, unaware of our history, would be confused.
> 
> That behavior is called "being considerate of others"
> 
> ...


A rose by any other name smells as sweet, so what does it matter who is called by what name? The important thing is the message they convey. We can agree or we can disagree with the message but to just hone in on someone because we know, think or suspect that they are someone else is just shooting the messenger and not discussing the message.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> A rose by any other name smells as sweet, so what does it matter who is called by what name? The important thing is the message they convey. We can agree or we can disagree with the message but to just hone in on someone because we know, think or suspect that they are someone else is just shooting the messenger and not discussing the message.


Well said Eve and I concur.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Just to be generous, I'll guess that you listen to about a dozen black people. That tells you something about the black people you know but nothing about black people in general. As has been pointed out, polls listen to thousands and probably have more information than you do.
> 
> Would voting statistics mean anything to you? Clearly black voters came out for Obama in large numbers, but John Kerry got 88% of the black vote in 2004, and Al Gore got 90% in 2000. What does that tell you about the political leanings of black people?


If you're referring to the recent past, you'd be correct. We've been somewhat isolated, these past months. But I will say this, even speaking to a dozen people is enough to know that they're all individuals, with their own ideas and opinions.

I also know that how a person votes, doesn't necessarily indicate what their ideologies or opinions are. I know for an absolute fact, that a lot of people voted for Obama only because he's a black man. I also know that some people voted for him, because they thought they might get freebies. I also know that some registered democrats don't like him and what he's done, even though they voted for him. I also know that some people voted for him because they felt that he was the lesser of two evils. People vote for different reasons. Some people vote a straight party ticket, because they haven't taken the time to educate themselves. If you want to tell me that most blacks vote for democrats, I've got no problem with that statement. But don't try to tell me that blacks think alike! You've no idea what they're thinking, unless you've talked with them!

As to polling, surely you understand how polling works. The questions are designed to elicit the desired response. When faced with multiple choice questions that are carefully chosen, people feel like they have to choose one, even if it doesn't express what they truly think. These questions are chosen by experts, to elicit specific responses. That's why one poll might say one thing, and another poll might say something completely different.

But all of that is beside the point. If someone from the conservative side made a statement that categorized blacks as being all the same, you'd be all over them, declaring them racist and expressing outrage. lisa does it all the time, but no one says anything. She even says it in the same statement, where she's calling someone else a racist. If people want to declare racism in others, they ought to take a good hard look at their own. To say that all black people think the same, is like saying that all white people think the same. It simply isn't true!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Tells me that the majority of black voters vote for their best interests and that is to usually vote for Democrats and maybe Bernie Sanders. :thumbup:


In recent decades, its been in their interest to vote for democrats. But it hasn't always been that way. There was a time when black people were overwhelmingly republican. But even so, voting in one's best interest, doesn't always paint a clear picture of one's opinions or ideology. If a candidate that I hated, announced that he was going to give women over 60, a million dollars, I might consider voting for him regardless of whether I agreed with him or not.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll call her what she chooses to be called. And btw, not every new person who sounds like a liberal is Lisa.
> 
> Nobody said any group all think the same way, only that they have the same leanings. Of course they differ on specific items. So do we here. But if 90% of a particular group voted for a Democrat, we can safely say that a majority (51%) lean left. You set up a straw man and then think you've knocked it down. But you prove nothing.
> 
> ...


YOU might refer to their political leanings, but lisa declares outright, that she knows what their thinking and what they want, simply because they're black.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No, I'm interested, so I may read a poll. Actually, I'm less interested in polling than in the social interactions, so I read many things.


You were suggesting that I was not interested in what they say. My response intended to point out that reading polls, was not the only way one would be interested in what others have to say.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> YOU might refer to their political leanings, but lisa declares outright, that she knows what their thinking and what they want, simply because they're black.


"lisa"? C'mon. Is "lisa" going to be the buzzword for anybody that disagrees with the conservative view point? That is the same mind set as people thinking they know what "all" African American people think. I think I know you better than your being simplistic in your thoughts. You usually have some profound reasoning to present.

On an I hope happier note - how are the children? It will be a milestone when they no longer need the breathing tubing. And I hope Max is making a comfortable transition into being a big brother.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I would guess that conversations with individuals are about as skewed as you can get. Truthfully, do you ever argue with friends over anything more serious than movies or tv?


First of all, I rarely watch TV, and haven't been to a movie in ages, so I don't engage in conversations about TV and movies. I would have nothingto say.

Second of all, when I'm with a group that includes black people, it's no different than when I'm with a group of all whte people. Sometimes we talk about politics, sometimes we don't. It's not like I'm going to steer conversation one way or another, based upon race! Black people are people! Just like any other!!! They have varied interests and opinions! They talk about the same things that everyone else talks about!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> If employers are not paying equal wages to women who hold the same position and have the same experience and education as a man what are they doing but stealing these women's wages? What would you call it?


I thought she was referring to something else.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wage theft refers to a policy many businesses have of not paying workers for all the time they put in. For example, going to a meeting may be required, but if it's outside business hours, they don't get paid. Employers violate minimum wage and overtime laws, erasing work hours and wrongfully taking employees tips - out and out theft.
> 
> It's been in the news for quite a while. Here's a short, simple piece:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/business/more-workers-are-claiming-wage-theft.html


Thank you! I hadn't thought of that.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with this! But I was wondering what you meant by employers stealing wages? I used to work payroll as well, but never saw any irregularities, other than men making more than women.


The most common and blatant irregularity is the deliberate misclassification of exempt/non-exempt workers.

Employers are often lax about allowing (or forcing) workers to work off the clock - not paying those who come in early or work late or take work home.

I've frequently seen exempt workers "docked" for taking time off even when they routinely work extended hours.

I've fought battles over companies trying to avoid paying workers for mandatory training.

One of the worst was an employer who allowed workers to "volunteer" hours without pay on a routine basis.

How about employers who lie to staff and say they "have to" dock hours for lunch breaks even though the employee is not given time off to eat? Or, who continue to work through lunch breaks at their desks and are still docked for the break?

Some violations were the result of ignorance and lack of training on the part of management. Others are deliberate and calculated. It's rampant.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> "lisa"? C'mon. Is "lisa" going to be the buzzword for anybody that disagrees with the conservative view point? That is the same mind set as people thinking they know what "all" African American people think. I think I know you better than your being simplistic in your thoughts. You usually have some profound reasoning to present.
> 
> On an I hope happier note - how are the children? It will be a milestone when they no longer need the breathing tubing. And I hope Max is making a comfortable transition into being a big brother.


Do you honestly think that I'm using "lisa" as a buzzword for anything? When I spoke of "lisa", I was referring to lisa! I've not forgotten the many times she's declared that she knows what black people think, no matter what she calls herself! She makes it absolutely clear, when she's speaking, so why play games and pretend it's someone it's not?

Thomas is the only baby, still in the hospital. He's been off the breathing tube for about a week, but has to wait until he drinks every bottle completely. He likes to fall asleep before he finishes. Everybody's doing great. The babies are very easy going. The hard thing is trying to figure the time, between home and hospital. Max is a little jealous. He wants our attention when we're feeding the babies, but I'm working with him to understand that as soon as I'm done (or anyone else), we'll come play with him. He's getting better. Today is Max's birthday. So, I need to get rolling. I'll talk to you later.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you honestly think that I'm using "lisa" as a buzzword for anything? When I spoke of "lisa", I was referring to lisa! I've not forgotten the many times she's declared that she knows what black people think, no matter what she calls herself! She makes it absolutely clear, when she's speaking, so why play games and pretend it's someone it's not?
> 
> Thomas is the only baby, still in the hospital. He's been off the breathing tube for about a week, but has to wait until he drinks every bottle completely. He likes to fall asleep before he finishes. Everybody's doing great. The babies are very easy going. The hard thing is trying to figure the time, between home and hospital. Max is a little jealous. He wants our attention when we're feeding the babies, but I'm working with him to understand that as soon as I'm done (or anyone else), we'll come play with him. He's getting better. Today is Max's birthday. So, I need to get rolling. I'll talk to you later.


Wonderful news. I hope Max's day is special - but then, I know you will make it so.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Teachers are a prime example of this. My ex was a high school teacher for a brief period and my daughter teaches nursing so I do know what I am talking about. Teachers spend many, many hours of their own time after their working day, marking assignment, planning classes, attending P & C meetings, attending school functions, organising and running sports carnivals on non school days, attending 'information for parents and pupils' nights. This is just a few of the activities that the teachers perform after their working day is finished and they do not receive pay for these attendances of tasks. Other examples of wage theft could include picking up the mail from the post office before work or delivering mail to the post office after work, on a daily basis and the time spent in doing this is not included in the hours worked. Often this involves a deviation from the direct route from the home to the work place but the employee is not compensated for the petrol used in the mail run. I worked in a public library and the library closed at 8.00 p m so I was paid up to 8.00 pm. Did I ever get away at 8.00 p m, never. The doors closed at 8.00 pm which meant that no one could come into the library after 8.00 p m but sometimes it took up to 15 minutes to process the people who were still in the library at 8.00 p m. Then we had to close the computer systems down and make sure no one was in the toilets, make sure no one was asleep somewhere, make sure everything was safe and secure. No we could not close the doors earlier, the opening hours were 9.00 am to 8.00 pm. Many a night it was well after 8.30 p m before we knocked off. OK, it is only half an hour a day but that adds up over the pay fortnight and our wages were over $25.00 Monday to Saturday and time and a half on Sundays so over time those extra half hours would amount to $$$$s.


Teachers everywhere are treated badly and taken advantage of because they're too well-behaved to fight. But that's by some public agency, not a profit-making business.

It's the private businesses that get me. Paying substandard wages, they still steal from the workers who are making their millions for them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If you're referring to the recent past, you'd be correct. We've been somewhat isolated, these past months. But I will say this, even speaking to a dozen people is enough to know that they're all individuals, with their own ideas and opinions.
> 
> I also know that how a person votes, doesn't necessarily indicate what their ideologies or opinions are. I know for an absolute fact, that a lot of people voted for Obama only because he's a black man. I also know that some people voted for him, because they thought they might get freebies. I also know that some registered democrats don't like him and what he's done, even though they voted for him. I also know that some people voted for him because they felt that he was the lesser of two evils. People vote for different reasons. Some people vote a straight party ticket, because they haven't taken the time to educate themselves. If you want to tell me that most blacks vote for democrats, I've got no problem with that statement. But don't try to tell me that blacks think alike! You've no idea what they're thinking, unless you've talked with them!
> 
> ...


WHO SAID ALL BLACK PEOPLE THINK THE SAME??? You accuse Lisa of this, but it's not what she said. In fact, the thought seems to have come from you.

And forget what I said about polls - it's probably true that the way a question is asked will usually get a desired answer. But election results? Al Gore didn't run in "the recent past." It was still the 20th century when he had the election torn out of his hands. No matter who voted for him, I'm sure it wasn't conservatives. The same goes for Kerry and Obama - especially Obama.

As for the "freebies," it sounds as though you're talking about the black voters who wanted their free (mythical) Obamaphones, or maybe food stamps; you didn't specify. I'd call that a racially tinged remark.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SCOTUS affirms gay's right to marry.

Celebrating here!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> SCOTUS affirms gay's right to marry.
> 
> Celebrating here!


You beat me to it! Yay!

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/27/00/22/us-top-court-rules-gay-marriage-a-right


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

And now this:

http://www.9news.com.au/World/2015/06/27/00/14/One-decapitated-in-France-terror-attack


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you honestly think that I'm using "lisa" as a buzzword for anything? When I spoke of "lisa", I was referring to lisa! I've not forgotten the many times she's declared that she knows what black people think, no matter what she calls herself! She makes it absolutely clear, when she's speaking, so why play games and pretend it's someone it's not?
> 
> Thomas is the only baby, still in the hospital. He's been off the breathing tube for about a week, but has to wait until he drinks every bottle completely. He likes to fall asleep before he finishes. Everybody's doing great. The babies are very easy going. The hard thing is trying to figure the time, between home and hospital. Max is a little jealous. He wants our attention when we're feeding the babies, but I'm working with him to understand that as soon as I'm done (or anyone else), we'll come play with him. He's getting better. Today is Max's birthday. So, I need to get rolling. I'll talk to you later.


Please wish Max a very happy birthday from me. And play this for him: 



 (My father's name was Max.)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Please wish Max a very happy birthday from me. And play this for him:
> 
> 
> 
> (My father's name was Max.)


Better than Sinatra.

Happy Birthday, Little Man!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

A few points of companies stealing the workers pay.

Contractors on new Perth children's hospital project not being paid, under stress, Opposition says

By Jessica Strutt

Posted about 6 hours ago

PHOTO: The ABC is aware of contractors owed millions for their work on the new children's hospital. (ABC News)
MAP: Murdoch 6150

Long delays in paying contractors involved in building the new $1.2-billion Perth Children's Hospital should be investigated by the Western Australian Government, the Opposition says.

Opposition industrial relations spokeswoman Kate Doust said she was aware of several contractors who claimed to be owed millions of dollars by construction giant John Holland and other contractors involved in the project.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-26/contractor-payment-dispute-at-new-perth-childrens-hospital/6576766

Tagara Builders enters liquidation following claims of unpaid workers, resignation of boss Tullio Tagliaferri from industry body

Updated about 5 hours ago

RELATED STORY: 150 out of work as shopping complex construction stops in SA: union

MAP: SA

South Australian construction company Tagara Builders has gone into liquidation following claims sub-contractors have not been paid for months, while its managing director has resigned as head of an industry association.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-26/mba-sa-president-resigns-over-financial-difficulties/6576646


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

More in depth article on gay marriage re SCOTUS. All states MUST perform marriage now. Amazing:

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/27/00/22/us-top-court-rules-gay-marriage-a-right


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

On the subject of wages.

One of the worst violations and the most common, is the mis-classification of workers as "exempt" when the employer knows, or should know, that the employee is in a job that is covered by the FSLA rules for overtime pay.

How many of us have worked as office managers, secretaries, administrative assistants, etc., and were paid on salary?

MOST of the time this is illegal.

How many of us have been classified as "lead" workers or supervisors when our "supervisorial" duties were a joke because we had no actual authority yet were paid on salary?

How many of us have been hired as a salaried worker with no discussion or justification for this except that the company customarily paid that way for a particular position? How many of us accepted this without question?

I feel this is the most common, yet often unrecognized, method of stealing wages across the board. Yet it is rarely addressed or discussed. It affects women in huge numbers and they frequently don't even realize it is happening.

Do you ladies know that unless a secretary or administrative assistant is responsible for high-level work (the "right hand" of the exec)and independent decision-making for a HIGH LEVEL manager or CEO, she is non-exempt and must be paid overtime? The clerk in the typing pool doesn't qualify as an exempt worker. The secretary to a mid-level manager does not qualify as an exempt worker. The admissions clerk processing enrollment forms does not qualify as an exempt worker. 

Do you ladies know that even a person who is being paid a salary sometimes MUST also be paid overtime, depending on the actual job duties?

Do you know that in order to qualify as exempt as a supervisor, one must have at least two employees and supervisory responsibilities must occupy a significant portion of your actual duties? 

Do you know that the tech who plugs in computers and administers the IT system is almost always paid as non-exempt in error?

Unfortunately, FLSA rules on job classification were written vaguely and remain so in spite of changes made about 15 years ago. There are also endless unique jobs, job descriptions and varieties of interpretations of the law - ALWAYS slanted in favor of the employer until employees complain or bring suit and risk being fired. Employers DO NOT want their employees to know the actual rules because it is in their best interest to bedazzle and dance around the law and the intent of the law.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> SCOTUS affirms gay's right to marry.
> 
> Celebrating here!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> More in depth article on gay marriage re SCOTUS. All states MUST perform marriage now. Amazing:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/27/00/22/us-top-court-rules-gay-marriage-a-right


Wonderful, terrific news! The anti-LGB must be reeling from this psychological punch in the gut. They promised a massive civil protest campaign if the Supreme Court approved gay marriage--can't wait to see what those bigots have in mind.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Teachers everywhere are treated badly and taken advantage of because they're too well-behaved to fight. But that's by some public agency, not a profit-making business.
> 
> It's the private businesses that get me. Paying substandard wages, they still steal from the workers who are making their millions for them.


Poor Purl
I am sure you heard my "strong" conversation with one of those private business owners (old Friends) yesterday. They get everything wrong but insist on being right. They shortchange everyone they owe to. That is one of their games and they are not alone doing that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Wonderful news. I hope Max's day is special - but then, I know you will make it so.


Thanks, Green! His daddy has spent a chunk of this week, building him a swing set. So he's very happy! He LOVES to swing at my house, but here, he only had a Little Tykes Pirate Ship playset and a house with a slide. So now he has swings. He'd really outgrown the Little Tykes stuff. Now he can swing anywhere.

Right now, mommy, daddy and Max, are out shopping for party decorations. I'm watching the three babies. Arya woke Kayla and Leo, so I'm going from baby to baby. I've got them settled in swings for now. We'll see how long it lasts. The girls are both stirring.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I am sure you heard my "strong" conversation with one of those private business owners (old Friends) yesterday. They get everything wrong but insist on being right. They shortchange everyone they owe to. That is one of their games and they are not alone doing that.


Saw it. I bet they have convinced themselves that everyone does business that way and therefore there's nothing wrong with it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Green! His daddy has spent a chunk of this week, building him a swing set. So he's very happy! He LOVES to swing at my house, but here, he only had a Little Tykes Pirate Ship playset and a house with a slide. So now he has swings. He'd really outgrown the Little Tykes stuff. Now he can swing anywhere.
> 
> Right now, mommy, daddy and Max, are out shopping for party decorations. I'm watching the three babies. Arya woke Kayla and Leo, so I'm going from baby to baby. I've got them settled in swings for now. We'll see how long it lasts. The girls are both stirring.


You are a brave woman.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Teachers everywhere are treated badly and taken advantage of because they're too well-behaved to fight. But that's by some public agency, not a profit-making business.
> 
> It's the private businesses that get me. Paying substandard wages, they still steal from the workers who are making their millions for them.


The law also allows it. According to FLSA, most teachers are "learned professionals" and therefore exempt.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I am sure you heard my "strong" conversation with one of those private business owners (old Friends) yesterday. They get everything wrong but insist on being right. They shortchange everyone they owe to. That is one of their games and they are not alone doing that.


I couldn't find it. Link?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wonderful, terrific news! The anti-LGB must be reeling from this psychological punch in the gut. They promised a massive civil protest campaign if the Supreme Court approved gay marriage--can't wait to see what those bigots have in mind.


Justice prevails at last! President Obama is having a few wins lately; his health care legacy is in the bag and now anyone can marry! It's great. I hope Australia takes America's lead and we see freedom for everyone here. :-D


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Teachers everywhere are treated badly and taken advantage of because they're too well-behaved to fight. But that's by some public agency, not a profit-making business.
> 
> It's the private businesses that get me. Paying substandard wages, they still steal from the workers who are making their millions for them.


I just heard last week, that the biggest school district in our state, was going to add 45 minutes to the school day, but weren't giving the teachers a raise, to compensate them. I think few people realize how long a teacher's day, actually is. Many people think that a teacher's day is over when the kids get out. That's far from the truth.

I still say that private businesses will never pay a decent wage as long as there are more workers than jobs. And now, another trade treaty will get passed, which will cause there to be even fewer jobs. IMO, those who pass the laws and treaties (that benefit corporations, not people) dont care one whit, for our country or our people. I don't know how we can survive as a nation, if we can't employ our people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just heard last week, that the biggest school district in our state, was going to add 45 minutes to the school day, but weren't giving the teachers a raise, to compensate them. I think few people realize how long a teacher's day, actually is. Many people think that a teacher's day is over when the kids get out. That's far from the truth.
> 
> I still say that private businesses will never pay a decent wage as long as there are more workers than jobs. And now, another trade treaty will get passed, which will cause there to be even fewer jobs. IMO, those who pass the laws and treaties (that benefit corporations, not people) dont care one whit, for our country or our people. I don't know how we can survive as a nation, if we can't employ our people.


The interesting thing is that retail businesses that treat their employees well tend to do more business than the stingy ones. Stingy thinks "If I give this guy 50 cents more an hour, that's 50 cents out of my pocket. So I won't do it." Smarter thinks "If I give this guy $2 more an hour, he'll be happy working here, he'll be willing to go above and beyond, customers will like dealing with him and will keep coming back, even if my lemons cost a nickel more than someone else's."

I see it every time I walk into Trader Joe's.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The interesting thing is that retail businesses that treat their employees well tend to do more business than the stingy ones. Stingy thinks "If I give this guy 50 cents more an hour, that's 50 cents out of my pocket. So I won't do it." Smarter thinks "If I give this guy $2 more an hour, he'll be happy working here, he'll be willing to go above and beyond, customers will like dealing with him and will keep coming back, even if my lemons cost a nickel more than someone else's."
> 
> I see it every time I walk into Trader Joe's.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen wrote "Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. A company sets the wage for the job offered."

That statement is wrong, wrong, wrong.

You imply that there is some intrinsic value to work that the employer has the "right" to set and only by increasing one's education or skill should that wage be increased. 
************
If a person wants to get ahead in a business, they have to acquire skills and education that make them an asset to that business. The employee has to make themselves a person the business wants to keep, not aspire to be the employee that just fills his time between 9am and 5pm. It won't hurt the employee in the future when looking for other positions either. It will increase his bargaining power. 
**************

Evidently you have never heard of the law of supply and demand.

If the employer has more applicants than jobs, he can reduce the pay he offers to a point where no one will take the job. Of course, if enough people are out of work, he can enjoy the benefit of paying very little and getting a lot in return, thereby increasing his profit.
*************
Of course the employer can. The opposite can also happen. The worker can hold out until he can find a job that satisfies his needs. This is where the additional education and skills comes into play. The job seeker can apply to another company, perhaps a lesser known one, and the result will be a win win for both. There are many scenarios. It's no longer one size fits all.

*************
If there are more jobs than applicants, wages rise as employers compete to find workers to fill his needs. A good example of this was post-WWII when employers offered insurance and other benefits in order to "sweeten" the appeal for applicants.

Then there is the scenario where employers conspire to suppress wages and the workers are squeezed to functional slavery. You might want to read (or re-read) "The Grapes of Wrath" to see how that works.

If you want to look at professional athletes, the owners certainly don't set the wages. They pay astronomical sums for exceptional talent because of the limited quantity of world-class players. Supply and demand.

****************
Professional athletes are totally over paid for what they do. So they can play a sport. Take most of them off the court/field and what else can they offer? Very few get the lucrative endorsements.

****************
This is all off the top of my head and I'm sure there are many sources and studies that would provide a more comprehensive analysis of the multiple factors that go into setting wages. Of one thing I am certain; the value of work is not solely determined by the employer, though employers will take every possible advantage to exploit workers to their own benefit. Every. Single. Time. Having worked in Human Resources I've seen this in action consistently, regardless of the company or industry, size or demographic.

****************
That's why the worker has to make him/herself valuable to the company. If you are going to work for someone else you have to make sure you are the one they keep employed.

*****************
Unions have been instrumental in balancing the playing field for millions of workers and for creating the middle class that benefits not only workers, but industry and the country as a whole. As wages rise, demand for goods and services rise, tax revenue rises, industries thrive and the country thrives. The systematic destruction of unions is a critical factor in our economic woes. Your claim that employers set the value of work is a tea-party, 1% conservative, industry-formulated glass of Kool-Aid from which you seem to have drunk deeply.

***************
Unions have gotten workers pay wage increases more benefits and in some cases better working conditions, but have not made the worker a better employee. Unions give the worker a false sense of security, thinking they can't lose their jobs, and forces the workers to rely on someone else to do their bidding while the worker stagnates. Is it really a wonder why unions are losing their edge?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just heard last week, that the biggest school district in our state, was going to add 45 minutes to the school day, but weren't giving the teachers a raise, to compensate them. I think few people realize how long a teacher's day, actually is. Many people think that a teacher's day is over when the kids get out. That's far from the truth.
> 
> I still say that private businesses will never pay a decent wage as long as there are more workers than jobs. And now, another trade treaty will get passed, which will cause there to be even fewer jobs. IMO, those who pass the laws and treaties (that benefit corporations, not people) dont care one whit, for our country or our people. I don't know how we can survive as a nation, if we can't employ our people.


Knitter from Nebraska
do you know how that treaty is formulated? You are making some rather firm statements and they should be based on knowledge not assumptions. I am sure we have learned from NAFTA and are doing much better this time. We shall see.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Modig said:


> And when those individuals can SHARE the same opinions.
> 
> MOST black individuals AGREE that Liberalism is better for them as a people than is conservatism.
> 
> And a major reason for that is because there is MUCH MUCH MUCH more racism, historically and presently, in conservatism.


True, true.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> DGreen wrote "Increasing ones wages are the responsibility of the job holder. A company sets the wage for the job offered."
> 
> That statement is wrong, wrong, wrong.
> 
> ...


In large part, you just agreed with me.

By the way, your assessment of whether athletes are overpaid is immaterial to this particular point.

Unions have positives and negatives but it cannot be denied that they created the middle class. Do your homework on that one.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

*ALERT* Richard Mott has been shot and they are closing in on the other escapee. Just announced - it seems they were trying to get over the Canadian border. Therefore they were correct in feeling they were in that area.

Yeah!!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> *ALERT* Richard Mott has been shot and they are closing in on the other escapee. Just announced - it seems they were trying to get over the Canadian border. Therefore they were correct in feeling they were in that area.
> 
> Yeah!!


Thanks for letting us know


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> *ALERT* Richard Mott has been shot and they are closing in on the other escapee. Just announced - it seems they were trying to get over the Canadian border. Therefore they were correct in feeling they were in that area.
> 
> Yeah!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you honestly think that I'm using "lisa" as a buzzword for anything? When I spoke of "lisa", I was referring to lisa! I've not forgotten the many times she's declared that she knows what black people think, no matter what she calls herself! She makes it absolutely clear, when she's speaking, so why play games and pretend it's someone it's not?
> 
> Thomas is the only baby, still in the hospital. He's been off the breathing tube for about a week, but has to wait until he drinks every bottle completely. He likes to fall asleep before he finishes. Everybody's doing great. The babies are very easy going. The hard thing is trying to figure the time, between home and hospital. Max is a little jealous. He wants our attention when we're feeding the babies, but I'm working with him to understand that as soon as I'm done (or anyone else), we'll come play with him. He's getting better. Today is Max's birthday. So, I need to get rolling. I'll talk to you later.


Birthday hug to Max. When you get a routine and he has his little chores so he is an important part of the team he will probably feel better about things, too. You know, stuff like lay out the diapers ready for the next change, be the one to hand the changer the lotion and wipe. And before he knows it and they are moving around, he will be their hero, the big kid.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Teachers everywhere are treated badly and taken advantage of because they're too well-behaved to fight. But that's by some public agency, not a profit-making business.
> 
> It's the private businesses that get me. Paying substandard wages, they still steal from the workers who are making their millions for them.


Another scam is the old pension system. The company I worked for had extremely different payouts for salaried and hourly workers. I was hourly for 10 years and get $46.08 a month then when I became salaried, which lasted 3 years until the company was sold and we went to 401's my pension is $69.13. A difference between $4.60 for each year worked and $23.04. And there has not been a cost of living adjustment ever so far as I was able to determine. You can imagine that when the pension plan was begun $5,000 a year was a comfortable wage and a small but nice house was probably $7,500.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The law also allows it. According to FLSA, most teachers are "learned professionals" and therefore exempt.


And here teachers must pay into the unemployment insurance fund. However they are paid on an annually based salary, so they are not eligible to apply for unemployment for the 10 to 12 weeks they are not working and in most cases not collecting a paycheck; they are paid during the 10 months that they teach. Only if they are laid off can they collect.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Another scam is the old pension system. The company I worked for had extremely different payouts for salaried and hourly workers. I was hourly for 10 years and get $46.08 a month then when I became salaried, which lasted 3 years until the company was sold and we went to 401's my pension is $69.13. A difference between $4.60 for each year worked and $23.04. And there has not been a cost of living adjustment ever so far as I was able to determine. You can imagine that when the pension plan was begun $5,000 a year was a comfortable wage and a small but nice house was probably $7,500.


Ask jbandsma about pensions. She and DH recently lost theirs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Modig said:


> Well thank goodness I never said that.
> 
> But AGAIN. I've been intimately involved in civil rights
> for decades.
> ...


Well, there's one obvious thing about your opinions: you certainly believe in the right to free speech.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Modig said:


> Well thank goodness I never said that.
> 
> But AGAIN. I've been intimately involved in civil rights
> for decades.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## annamatilda (Aug 10, 2012)

Modig said:


> Blacks have ALWAYS voted with the Liberals.
> 
> There was a time when Republicans where Liberal, at least in regards to civil rights.


Stupid answer!


> Blacks vote Liberally because conservatives, be it in 1860 or 1960 or 2015 ... are the ones who are consistently against civil rights.This is the "blacks are voting for freebies" claim again. And Again, this is why I and some others her believe you've got a bit of the racist in you.
> 
> To be clear when I say blacks are voting in their own best interest,,I'm referring to thing like their civil rights and human rights.
> 
> That your mind goes to "freebies' when you hear the term "in their best interest' .. speaks racially tinged volumes.


 Shows you know absolutely nothing about the history of civil rights!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> WHO SAID ALL BLACK PEOPLE THINK THE SAME??? You accuse Lisa of this, but it's not what she said. In fact, the thought seems to have come from you.
> 
> And forget what I said about polls - it's probably true that the way a question is asked will usually get a desired answer. But election results? Al Gore didn't run in "the recent past." It was still the 20th century when he had the election torn out of his hands. No matter who voted for him, I'm sure it wasn't conservatives. The same goes for Kerry and Obama - especially Obama.
> 
> As for the "freebies," it sounds as though you're talking about the black voters who wanted their free (mythical) Obamaphones, or maybe food stamps; you didn't specify. I'd call that a racially tinged remark.


=========
Shirley here.
Time is starting to show that he is much smarter, kinder and 
much more strong in his own opinions and an excellent President. I think he will go down in history as a good President who made great strides for the People of America. Rights and Freedoms. Hats off to him!!

I have never heard him promise any freebies to those who voted for him. Are you saying that he promised 'freebies' to black voters? Prove it. I am not sure what you mean by freebies. It sounds like another of your opinions that I likely won't agree with.

Nebs if only you would discuss your feelings without stating things you have no proof of as the truth, when they are just your opinions. Then we could talk about your opinions. YOu leave no room for discussion as you are absolutely always absolutely sure that your way is right, even though you are using your opinion only.

I promised I would not take you on. It is hard as I absolutely disagree with the way you make statements that are so off the wall as far as my feelings are concerned.. Especially your blind dislike (hate???) for the President.

I have avoided threads to avoid arguing with you. I am not sure I am going to be able to live up to my promise.

I think this week will be remembered for many many years when the two laws passed by the supreme Court are discussed and become part of the lives of Americans.

Yeah -- It is a change for the good . I believe he was 
absolutely sincere and I am glad he is standing up and being counted more than in the past. When he was being denigrated by Conservatives including you.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

For some interesting anti-semitic posts go to the "Confederate Flag" post. KGB and Bumps have just discovered it. A 'lady' from Chicago and now living elsewhere (TG) has a lot to say about how the Jews controlled the slave trade. SusanMos tried to set them straight but it was futile. I finally had to unwatch in total disgust.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> For some interesting anti-semitic posts go to the "Confederate Flag" post. KGB and Bumps have just discovered it. A 'lady' from Chicago and now living elsewhere (TG) has a lot to say about how the Jews controlled the slave trade. SusanMos tried to set them straight but it was futile. I finally had to unwatch in total disgust.


I have only skimmed those posts, just reading the first sentences I knew which way their arguments were going. I was wondering if the lady who left Chicago had read that horrid book _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. I am sure you know of it. It is attributed to various authors but is said to go back to Napoleon's time. Henry Ford was also a strong fan of the sentiments expressed in the book.

When I looked at the posts on the thread I thought 'are they bombing us with their posts' so I am ignoring them and definitely not responding to any of their posts. I liked your replies, short and to the point.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I have only skimmed those posts, just reading the first sentences I knew which way their arguments were going. I was wondering if the lady who left Chicago had read that horrid book _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. I am sure you know of it. It is attributed to various authors but is said to go back to Napoleon's time. Henry Ford was also a strong fan of the sentiments expressed in the book.
> 
> When I looked at the posts on the thread I thought 'are they bombing us with their posts' so I am ignoring them and definitely not responding to any of their posts. I liked your replies, short and to the point.


Thanks EveeeM. for checking things out. Amazing how ugly people can get.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Modig said:


> Some of us suspect there's been some Diaper Pail members creating aliases and posting some really bigoted stuff that they're afraid to say under their real usernames.
> 
> Politically, they're having a lot of losses and embarrassments and are freaking out.
> 
> ...


I do not think that people will believe it is you posting those comments. Your command of English is way beyond that of the posters therefore if anyone reads them they will know that it is definitely not you posting. Your arguments are always clear and concise and are backed up with facts, not ramblings.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> For some interesting anti-semitic posts go to the "Confederate Flag" post. KGB and Bumps have just discovered it. A 'lady' from Chicago and now living elsewhere (TG) has a lot to say about how the Jews controlled the slave trade. SusanMos tried to set them straight but it was futile. I finally had to unwatch in total disgust.


Well, when you find racists, they are usually anti Semites as well. People who do not have pride in who they are and are insecure about their self worth usually look for others to make them smaller so they will be larger. All they do is make themselves larger idiots.

But the danger is when they find others like themselves and form gangs and do harm to the people who are the objects of their hatred. Look at the pogroms against Jews in Europe and the pogroms leading to lynchings against Black people in America. Those atrocities were perhaps in the past but the mind set leading to them has not gone away and is taught to the next generation, viz Dillon Roof and his ilk. We must stay vigilant and try to educate people. If they are educable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Justice prevails at last! President Obama is having a few wins lately; his health care legacy is in the bag and now anyone can marry! It's great. I hope Australia takes America's lead and we see freedom for everyone here. :-D


Wombatnomore
just think how much President Obama could have accomplished with just a LITTLE decency from the GOP. Hope that Voters remember all of the ugliness thrown at him every hour of his Presidency. Obviously he surrounded himself with caring and highly intelligent People to survive as he has. He is a fine Man and History will be more than rewarding him for all he accomplished.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I have just watched two speeches by your President. I simply cannot understand the hatred and contempt he generates. I am full of admiration for the grace he shows in the face of the vitriol he and his family have to endure. Do the haters actually listen to what he says? In the speech where he talked about racism in the USA, all the media concentrated on was his use of that word. That was his whole point, but it was buried. I apologise in advance to those who think a foreigner shouldn't stick her nose into your affairs.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I have just watched two speeches by your President. I simply cannot understand the hatred and contempt he generates. I am full of admiration for the grace he shows in the face of the vitriol he and his family have to endure. Do the haters actually listen to what he says? In the speech where he talked about racism in the USA, all the media concentrated on was his use of that word. That was his whole point, but it was buried. I apologise in advance to those who think a foreigner shouldn't stick her nose into your affairs.


The haters only listen to what Faux News SAYS he says and their perverted interpretation of it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I have just watched two speeches by your President. I simply cannot understand the hatred and contempt he generates. I am full of admiration for the grace he shows in the face of the vitriol he and his family have to endure. Do the haters actually listen to what he says? In the speech where he talked about racism in the USA, all the media concentrated on was his use of that word. That was his whole point, but it was buried. I apologise in advance to those who think a foreigner shouldn't stick her nose into your affairs.


aw9358
Thank you for your kind words about our fine President. You need not to apologize for saying what you feel. It is accepted with much thanks. Yes, there are Americans who are kind, considerate and all inclusive and we embrace individuals like you no matter on which part of this Earth they reside. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The haters only listen to what Faux News SAYS he says and their perverted interpretation of it.


DGreen
I have no doubt that the haters are just so frustrated and angry because they have not been able to come up with a Candidate who is of the caliber of President Obama. Look at the types that are in line trying to become President. It certainly is not a line of fine characters.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

It has been a glorious week. Our President never gave up and has been rewarded and we all are benefiting forever from it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> A rose by any other name smells as sweet, so what does it matter who is called by what name? The important thing is the message they convey. We can agree or we can disagree with the message but to just hone in on someone because we know, think or suspect that they are someone else is just shooting the messenger and not discussing the message.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Very wise. Thank you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> YOU might refer to their political leanings, but lisa declares outright, that she knows what their thinking and what they want, simply because they're black.


I've never heard this. I think you're projecting your feelings about Lisa into fact.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> I have no doubt that the haters are just so frustrated and angry because they have not been able to come up with a Candidate who is of the caliber of President Obama. Look at the types that are in line trying to become President. It certainly is not a line of fine characters.


Or, they have come up with the candidates they have BECAUSE they are frustrated and angry. Hard to figure them out.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Or, they have come up with the candidates they have BECAUSE they are frustrated and angry. Hard to figure them out.


DGreen
little they do and say makes sense any more.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In recent decades, its been in their interest to vote for democrats. But it hasn't always been that way. There was a time when black people were overwhelmingly republican. But even so, voting in one's best interest, doesn't always paint a clear picture of one's opinions or ideology. If a candidate that I hated, announced that he was going to give women over 60, a million dollars, I might consider voting for him regardless of whether I agreed with him or not.


That maybe what you would do but I would have nothing to do with anyone who made such outrageous declarations.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> I have no doubt that the haters are just so frustrated and angry because they have not been able to come up with a Candidate who is of the caliber of President Obama.


No, they haven't, have they? They have had much to be upset about this week: the ACA ruling, equality for gays, and Americans finally turning against the Confederate flag and what it stands for. I wonder if they're beginning to realize in that they're out of step with much of 21st century America. Must be frustrating for them to realize that the world is passing them by and their favorite GOP candidates are suddenly as relevant as dinosaurs.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Well, when you find racists, they are usually anti Semites as well. People who do not have pride in who they are and are insecure about their self worth usually look for others to make them smaller so they will be larger. All they do is make themselves larger idiots.


I was pretty surprised by that exchange over on the Confederate flag thread. Anti-Jewish sentiment isn't unusual on KP, but generally the haters cover their tracks pretty well with lots of gooey talk about how they LUV "the Jewish people" and automatic knee-jerk support of Israel. Well, I suppose the haters are bound to turn on some group or other now that they're been deprived of their favorite targets--gays, African-Americans, and the ACA. It's depressing, though.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I was pretty surprised by that exchange over on the Confederate flag thread. Anti-Jewish sentiment isn't unusual on KP, but generally the haters cover their tracks pretty well with lots of gooey talk about how they LUV "the Jewish people" and automatic knee-jerk support of Israel. Well, I suppose the haters are bound to turn on some group or other now that they're been deprived of their favorite targets--gays, African-Americans, and the ACA. It's depressing, though.


I agree, Susan. The threads are getting uglier and uglier, BUT, your country has come a huge way this week, with ACA made permanent, and Gay Marriage allowed all over the US, and the way the President spoke (and sang) at the funeral today. Also one of the escapees was kiled and it sounds as if the other is getting close to being captures.

I think this week will go down in history. And I think President Obama will be remembered through out history for what happened today. Good for him and good for the USA!!!! His name will be known by all Americans in the future for Obamacare and the rights for gays to be married!!!

Yeah!!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I have just watched two speeches by your President. I simply cannot understand the hatred and contempt he generates. I am full of admiration for the grace he shows in the face of the vitriol he and his family have to endure. Do the haters actually listen to what he says? In the speech where he talked about racism in the USA, all the media concentrated on was his use of that word. That was his whole point, but it was buried. I apologise in advance to those who think a foreigner shouldn't stick her nose into your affairs.


An Aussie agrees with you. I am also in the same boat as you, a foreigner, and I will also be told that I have no right to poke my nose into USA affairs because I do not know what I am talking about. President Obama is well liked in Australia and was very well received when he was here. There is a programme on the TV on Tuesday, Obama meets Attenborough, I must slot it into my planner as I think it should be interesting. I have noted that some posters have stated that they do not watch TV and get their information from the internet. I do not think they understand that the internet is full of misinformation. Anyone can publish anything on the net, whether it is correct, incorrect or downright misleading. One needs to listen to many sources. I like the Australian Broadcasting Commission, I thought I had better spell that out because if I say ABC people often think I am referring to the American Broadcasting Commission. I also listen to the BBC and SBS.

But you are definitely not alone in your views of the American President.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not think that people will believe it is you posting those comments. Your command of English is way beyond that of the posters therefore if anyone reads them they will know that it is definitely not you posting. Your arguments are always clear and concise and are backed up with facts, not ramblings.


I wouldn't worry what any of them say. They are reaching and they are always looking. I agree with Eve.

Nice to see you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not think that people will believe it is you posting those comments. Your command of English is way beyond that of the posters therefore if anyone reads them they will know that it is definitely not you posting. Your arguments are always clear and concise and are backed up with facts, not ramblings.


You are correct Eve! The Repubs are having an unexpectedly bad week. I am so happy that Obama care (good name, by the way) was accepted by the Supreme Court. That must have set them back and then Marriage between every American is their right! What a huge thing! And the decisions about the Southern flag. Means so much to so many.

So don't worry about what ANY of them say. They are not happy campers right now. Yeah!

The President's speech was so great and so moving and so 
much what he feels and believes, in my opinion. I was in tears when he lead the congregation in "Amazing Grace"


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree, Susan. The threads are getting uglier and uglier, BUT, your country has come a huge way this week, with ACA made permanent, and Gay Marriage allowed all over the US, and the way the President spoke (and sang) at the funeral today. Also one of the escapees was kiled and it sounds as if the other is getting close to being captures.
> 
> I think this week will go down in history. And I think President Obama will be remembered through out history for what happened today. Good for him and good for the USA!!!! His name will be known by all Americans in the future for Obamacare and the rights for gays to be married!!!
> 
> Yeah!!


Thumbs up to that, Designer! The events of the last week or so have really given me a new faith in American society--they're proof that we really CAN change, and change for the better.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

So, has anyone heard anything from the anti-LGBT forces on how they plan to register their displeasure about the Supreme Court's latest decision? I heard a lot of rumbling from them earlier in the week about a massive civil disobedience campaign, but aside from one freaky preacher in Texas who vowed to set himself on fire there's been nothing concrete. I can't imagine what they could possibly do except the same old wedding cake thing, or trying to refuse to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> So, has anyone heard anything from the anti-LGBT forces on how they plan to register their displeasure about the Supreme Court's latest decision? I heard a lot of rumbling from them earlier in the week about a massive civil disobedience campaign, but aside from one freaky preacher in Texas who vowed to set himself on fire there's been nothing concrete. I can't imagine what they could possibly do except the same old wedding cake thing, or trying to refuse to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.


Don't know about what the anti-LGBTers are planning, but I've heard a few people offer to send matches to that preacher in Texas.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Not sure whether I agree or not, but Morgan Freeman always has interesting things to say.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Don't know about what the anti-LGBTers are planning, but I've heard a few people offer to send matches to that preacher in Texas.


Heehee--yes! Folks wondering too if marshmallows will be provided! 
:XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You are correct Eve! The Repubs are having an unexpectedly bad week. I am so happy that Obama care (good name, by the way) was accepted by the Supreme Court. That must have set them back and then Marriage between every American is their right! What a huge thing! And the decisions about the Southern flag. Means so much to so many.
> 
> So don't worry about what ANY of them say. They are not happy campers right now. Yeah!
> 
> ...


Yeah! is right, Shirley. It's been a great day for America today!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Eve, thank you for your kind words. I saw an advert for the Obama meets Sir David as well. I think it's on this weekend. I'm definitely going to watch it - two treaures in one programme.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. History will reward Barack Obama for his character and fortitude.



Huckleberry said:


> It has been a glorious week. Our President never gave up and has been rewarded and we all are benefiting forever from it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If there is a moderate Republican left, he/she is embarrassed by the lack of quality in the candidates. Shameful. Perhaps those qualified are unwilling to dance with wolves....or there are none qualified anywhere.



DGreen said:


> Or, they have come up with the candidates they have BECAUSE they are frustrated and angry. Hard to figure them out.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you Cheeky. I'm not so easily bribed by charlatans.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> That maybe what you would do but I would have nothing to do with anyone who made such outrageous declarations.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe they realize they are underdogs thanks to their own proclamations. Is that why no one of quality will join the fray?
If there were much hope for a GOP candidate to win the next Presidential election, would Donald Trump throw his hair in the ring?



susanmos2000 said:


> No, they haven't, have they? They have had much to be upset about this week: the ACA ruling, equality for gays, and Americans finally turning against the Confederate flag and what it stands for. I wonder if they're beginning to realize in that they're out of step with much of 21st century America. Must be frustrating for them to realize that the world is passing them by and their favorite GOP candidates are suddenly as relevant as dinosaurs.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree, Susan. The threads are getting uglier and uglier, BUT, your country has come a huge way this week, with ACA made permanent, and Gay Marriage allowed all over the US, and the way the President spoke (and sang) at the funeral today. Also one of the escapees was kiled and it sounds as if the other is getting close to being captures.
> 
> I think this week will go down in history. And I think President Obama will be remembered through out history for what happened today. Good for him and good for the USA!!!! His name will be known by all Americans in the future for Obamacare and the rights for gays to be married!!!
> 
> Yeah!!


Thanks, Shirley.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Such intelligent, informed posters are always welcome. Kudos.



EveMCooke said:


> An Aussie agrees with you. I am also in the same boat as you, a foreigner, and I will also be told that I have no right to poke my nose into USA affairs because I do not know what I am talking about. President Obama is well liked in Australia and was very well received when he was here. There is a programme on the TV on Tuesday, Obama meets Attenborough, I must slot it into my planner as I think it should be interesting. I have noted that some posters have stated that they do not watch TV and get their information from the internet. I do not think they understand that the internet is full of misinformation. Anyone can publish anything on the net, whether it is correct, incorrect or downright misleading. One needs to listen to many sources. I like the Australian Broadcasting Commission, I thought I had better spell that out because if I say ABC people often think I am referring to the American Broadcasting Commission. I also listen to the BBC and SBS.
> 
> But you are definitely not alone in your views of the American President.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> You are correct Eve! The Repubs are having an unexpectedly bad week. I am so happy that Obama care (good name, by the way) was accepted by the Supreme Court. That must have set them back and then Marriage between every American is their right! What a huge thing! And the decisions about the Southern flag. Means so much to so many.
> 
> So don't worry about what ANY of them say. They are not happy campers right now. Yeah!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I cried too to think of such fine people losing their lives to hatred. Amazing Grace to forgive. I am impressed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thumbs up to that, Designer! The events of the last week or so have really given me a new faith in American society--they're proof that we really CAN change, and change for the better.


In the words of our President, change will come from grace. We don't earn or deserve grace. It is freely granted.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Not sure whether I agree or not, but Morgan Freeman always has interesting things to say.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Stop talking about Black History and ACT.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Modig said:


> Well, what's bothering Righties now is that despite the desperate attempts to sabotage his presidency, he IS going to go down as among the best we ever had.
> 
> We really need to play into their jealousy and paranoia and all put "FOUR MORE YEARS" in our siggys.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Forevermore.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--yes! Folks wondering too if marshmallows will be provided!
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


I have already sent firelighters, fire starters, kerosene, petrol and a cigarette lighter. You can do the marshmallows, now who will do the coffee and doughnuts. Oh dear me, I am naughty am I not. :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A dump cake and lemonade?



EveMCooke said:


> I have already sent firelighters, fire starters, kerosene, petrol and a cigarette lighter. You can do the marshmallows, now who will do the coffee and doughnuts. Oh dear me, I am naughty am I not. :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yeah! is right, Shirley. It's been a great day for America today!


Yes, Shirley and Cheeky, there is indeed hope.

I need something light at the moment. There has been a bad accident just down the road at the Morrison Road and Farrell Road intersection. A car has been T boned. It has upset my son, we have to drive through that intersection to get home. He had flashbacks to his accident when he was T boned and was lucky to survive. He took a deviation through Macca's drive through and took the long detour to home, via Stratton. The accident is less than 1 km from our home but we took a 6 km detour to avoid driving through the intersection. We heard the ambulance and police when we were in Midland Gate Shopping Centre and saw the ambos and police and fireys at the scene, we drive down Farrell Road and turn right into Morrison Road to get home. Someone doing exactly that was hit by someone driving along Farrell Road. Someone who saw the lights change to amber and put their foot down and charged through, not checking to see if someone was waiting to turn right on the amber. People in the USA and Canada, our right turn is equivalent to your left turn, you have to turn across the oncoming traffic. The intersection has been declared as one of Perth's 'Black Spots' or places with a history of accidents. Money was set aside for an intersection upgrade and four way turn right signals but Western Power has to relocate the power poles before the upgrade can take place. The new power poles have been laying on the ground there for over 12 months. Main Roads have now reallocated the money to other road works so who knows if or when the upgrade will take place. I think someone was badly hurt as the car that had been T boned had been pushed well and truly on to the other side of the road and I could see the ambos using the jaws of life to free the passenger trapped in the car. No, I did not mention this to my son, he has retired to his bedroom with a headache but I know he is pretty shaken by the accident. To make matters worse, my brother in law was killed at that corner, knocked off his pushbike by a hit and run driver years ago but I still think of Pat whenever I drive through the intersection.

Sorry to be telling you all this but at the moment I just need to tell someone and there is no one here but my son and I do not want to talk about it to him, so please forgive me.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Such intelligent, informed posters are always welcome. Kudos.


Thank you.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> A dump cake and lemonade?


OK I have you penciled in for that.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So, has anyone heard anything from the anti-LGBT forces on how they plan to register their displeasure about the Supreme Court's latest decision? I heard a lot of rumbling from them earlier in the week about a massive civil disobedience campaign, but aside from one freaky preacher in Texas who vowed to set himself on fire there's been nothing concrete. I can't imagine what they could possibly do except the same old wedding cake thing, or trying to refuse to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: That'd be right! Preacher setting himself on fire. Oh mercy! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Don't know about what the anti-LGBTers are planning, but I've heard a few people offer to send matches to that preacher in Texas.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Not sure whether I agree or not, but Morgan Freeman always has interesting things to say.


Oh to be as succinct as he! A great man.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, Shirley and Cheeky, there is indeed hope.
> 
> I need something light at the moment. There has been a bad accident just down the road at the Morrison Road and Farrell Road intersection. A car has been T boned. It has upset my son, we have to drive through that intersection to get home. He had flashbacks to his accident when he was T boned and was lucky to survive. He took a deviation through Macca's drive through and took the long detour to home, via Stratton. The accident is less than 1 km from our home but we took a 6 km detour to avoid driving through the intersection. We heard the ambulance and police when we were in Midland Gate Shopping Centre and saw the ambos and police and fireys at the scene, we drive down Farrell Road and turn right into Morrison Road to get home. Someone doing exactly that was hit by someone driving along Farrell Road. Someone who saw the lights change to amber and put their foot down and charged through, not checking to see if someone was waiting to turn right on the amber. People in the USA and Canada, our right turn is equivalent to your left turn, you have to turn across the oncoming traffic. The intersection has been declared as one of Perth's 'Black Spots' or places with a history of accidents. Money was set aside for an intersection upgrade and four way turn right signals but Western Power has to relocate the power poles before the upgrade can take place. The new power poles have been laying on the ground there for over 12 months. Main Roads have now reallocated the money to other road works so who knows if or when the upgrade will take place. I think someone was badly hurt as the car that had been T boned had been pushed well and truly on to the other side of the road and I could see the ambos using the jaws of life to free the passenger trapped in the car. No, I did not mention this to my son, he has retired to his bedroom with a headache but I know he is pretty shaken by the accident. To make matters worse, my brother in law was killed at that corner, knocked off his pushbike by a hit and run driver years ago but I still think of Pat whenever I drive through the intersection.
> 
> Sorry to be telling you all this but at the moment I just need to tell someone and there is no one here but my son and I do not want to talk about it to him, so please forgive me.


Harrowing EvieeeeM. It is okay to talk about it. I would be shaken also. Have a "cuppa" and try to relax.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Harrowing EvieeeeM. It is okay to talk about it. I would be shaken also. Have a "cuppa" and try to relax.


Thanks, I have made a cup of coffee. I have given Kai some of his headache tablets so he will now sleep for a while, but he really was shaking when we arrived home. I have just put another jumper on and turned the air conditioner on and cranked up the heat, I suddenly felt very cold and shivery. I think I may take a hot water bottle and have a lie down.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, Shirley and Cheeky, there is indeed hope.
> 
> I need something light at the moment. There has been a bad accident just down the road at the Morrison Road and Farrell Road intersection. A car has been T boned. It has upset my son, we have to drive through that intersection to get home.  He had flashbacks to his accident when he was T boned and was lucky to survive. He took a deviation through Macca's drive through and took the long detour to home, via Stratton. The accident is less than 1 km from our home but we took a 6 km detour to avoid driving through the intersection. We heard the ambulance and police when we were in Midland Gate Shopping Centre and saw the ambos and police and fireys at the scene, we drive down Farrell Road and turn right into Morrison Road to get home. Someone doing exactly that was hit by someone driving along Farrell Road. Someone who saw the lights change to amber and put their foot down and charged through, not checking to see if someone was waiting to turn right on the amber. People in the USA and Canada, our right turn is equivalent to your left turn, you have to turn across the oncoming traffic. The intersection has been declared as one of Perth's 'Black Spots' or places with a history of accidents. Money was set aside for an intersection upgrade and four way turn right signals but Western Power has to relocate the power poles before the upgrade can take place. The new power poles have been laying on the ground there for over 12 months. Main Roads have now reallocated the money to other road works so who knows if or when the upgrade will take place. I think someone was badly hurt as the car that had been T boned had been pushed well and truly on to the other side of the road and I could see the ambos using the jaws of life to free the passenger trapped in the car. No, I did not mention this to my son, he has retired to his bedroom with a headache but I know he is pretty shaken by the accident. To make matters worse, my brother in law was killed at that corner, knocked off his pushbike by a hit and run driver years ago but I still think of Pat whenever I drive through the intersection.
> 
> Sorry to be telling you all this but at the moment I just need to tell someone and there is no one here but my son and I do not want to talk about it to him, so please forgive me.


EveMCooke
so sorry to hear that but glad you shared. We had an intersection created that produced nothing but accidents. Previously one of the roads did not intersect straight so they straightened it out in order for folks not to have to slow down. Well, the new layout was idiotic. I finally collected signatures from people in the area to do something about this hazardous intersection. We had a town hall meeting and an overflow crowd in attendance. The Mayor and Aldermen got the message LOUD AND CLEAR and redesigned the intersection. Another problem they had caused was that with so many accidents, it put school children into harms way since the Ambulances raced all too often past their School on a daily basis. We also got the media involved on a very regular basis. Every time there was an accident we called them and pointed at the City Folk in charge. Low and behold they had plans to use the nutty design on another intersection. Well, we nipped that in the butt and even made that area an historic area and now they are stuck with what is. We also researched and found that as the roads are now, NO accidents, NONE, have ever happened at that particular crossroads and they wanted to change it - wonder why. There is people power and we can put it to good use.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: That'd be right! Preacher setting himself on fire. Oh mercy! :XD: :XD: :XD:


Wombatnomore
hope he sticks to his promise.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> A dump cake and lemonade?


damemary
never made a dump cake. They look so messy. So unloved.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

What a nice weekend when so many people got such wonderful news from the Supreme Court yesterday.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

On an only slightly different twist of how conservative Christians react to progress is the anti message of the Son Life group (Jimmy Swaggert) to the Pope's encyclical on Global Warming. Get ready all, you are about to loose all your individual freedoms and become members of a new world order run by the Pope.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

This is interesting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3141287/Authorities-Anti-vaccine-doctor-dead-apparent-suicide.html


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> On an only slightly different twist of how conservative Christians react to progress is the anti message of the Son Life group (Jimmy Swaggert) to the Pope's encyclical on Global Warming. Get ready all, you are about to loose all your individual freedoms and become members of a new world order run by the Pope.


LOL Peacegoddess. Wasn't that supposed to happen when Obamacare was introduced? Let's see...... everyone's guns were going to be confiscated by the government, according to Michele Bachmann, Obama was going to bring about the end of the world. Legalizing gay marriage will certainly end the world, and now climate change. ,,SARCASM>>
Republican evangelicals create their own fear.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> This is interesting:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3141287/Authorities-Anti-vaccine-doctor-dead-apparent-suicide.html


===========KFN
This is possibly the person who you quoted about Autism being caused by Vaccination. He committed suicide once it was proven that he was l00% wrong.

I hope this might help you change your mind?

Wombat, thanks for posting this link. I am glad he was called out on it, but sorry he felt he had to commit suicide. Possibly he might have had some regrets about publicizing something that might have convinced parents to avoid have a vaccination for their child.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> This is interesting:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3141287/Authorities-Anti-vaccine-doctor-dead-apparent-suicide.html


Very interesting, I will wait and see what develops from the enquiry into his death.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL Peacegoddess. Wasn't that supposed to happen when Obamacare was introduced? Let's see...... everyone's guns were going to be confiscated by the government, according to Michele Bachmann, Obama was going to bring about the end of the world. Legalizing gay marriage will certainly end the world, and now climate change. ,,SARCASM>>
> Republican evangelicals create their own fear.


I think it is interesting that certain Christian sects are so derisive of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Why does it seem that there is tolerance only for what they support?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I have just watched two speeches by your President. I simply cannot understand the hatred and contempt he generates. I am full of admiration for the grace he shows in the face of the vitriol he and his family have to endure. Do the haters actually listen to what he says? In the speech where he talked about racism in the USA, all the media concentrated on was his use of that word. That was his whole point, but it was buried. I apologise in advance to those who think a foreigner shouldn't stick her nose into your affairs.


If we don't know how the rest of the world thinks, how can we call ourselves informed and worldly people? Thank you for your kind thoughts about our President.

He seems to me to be a good and gracious person who is concerned about the welfare of his constituency whether they are his friends or foes. Talk about grace under pressure!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--yes! Folks wondering too if marshmallows will be provided!
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


And graham crackers and marshmallows. S'mores, a perfect sweet blending of dark, white, and medium. Who is dumb enough not to love 'em?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: That'd be right! Preacher setting himself on fire. Oh mercy! :XD: :XD: :XD:


The EPA will need to intervene. Air pollution.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks, I have made a cup of coffee. I have given Kai some of his headache tablets so he will now sleep for a while, but he really was shaking when we arrived home. I have just put another jumper on and turned the air conditioner on and cranked up the heat, I suddenly felt very cold and shivery. I think I may take a hot water bottle and have a lie down.


Nerve wracking situation when each of you has personal trauma associated. Hope your lie downs help each of you.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> never made a dump cake. They look so messy. So unloved.


Call it a Magic Cake, same as Magic Cookie bars. Easy peasy to put together and delicious results.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> On an only slightly different twist of how conservative Christians react to progress is the anti message of the Son Life group (Jimmy Swaggert) to the Pope's encyclical on Global Warming. Get ready all, you are about to loose all your individual freedoms and become members of a new world order run by the Pope.


Sure, when he would rather have the new world order run by Jimmy Swaggert.

The Pope is showing great humanity and empathy for all of us non Catholics while remaining true to the basic tenets of his faith. Perhaps he will set a standard for the future of the Church to keep it relevant as the world progresses.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Nerve wracking situation when each of you has personal trauma associated. Hope your lie downs help each of you.


It was upsetting for me, especially as the accident took place on Saturday 25th June and Pat was killed at the same intersection on a Saturday, 22nd June. To close to Pat's anniversary. Pat was only 32 when he was killed, a wonderful father and husband to my sister and her children. He was kind, considerate, gentle and loving. But I am OK today and so is Kai. Thanks.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

There was a news brief in this morning's paper that a 6 year old child died in Spain of diphtheria because his parents did not have him inoculated. The first case in Spain in 29 years.

It will be interesting to see whether The Spanish authorities take any legal action against the parents.



Designer1234 said:


> ===========KFN
> This is possibly the person who you quoted about Autism being caused by Vaccination. He committed suicide once it was proven that he was l00% wrong.
> 
> I hope this might help you change your mind?
> ...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> An Aussie agrees with you. I am also in the same boat as you, a foreigner, and I will also be told that I have no right to poke my nose into USA affairs because I do not know what I am talking about. President Obama is well liked in Australia and was very well received when he was here. There is a programme on the TV on Tuesday, Obama meets Attenborough, I must slot it into my planner as I think it should be interesting. I have noted that some posters have stated that they do not watch TV and get their information from the internet. I do not think they understand that the internet is full of misinformation. Anyone can publish anything on the net, whether it is correct, incorrect or downright misleading. One needs to listen to many sources. I like the Australian Broadcasting Commission, I thought I had better spell that out because if I say ABC people often think I am referring to the American Broadcasting Commission. I also listen to the BBC and SBS.
> 
> But you are definitely not alone in your views of the American President.


No need to apologize for commenting on US issues and our president and government policies. We are, rightly or wrongly, a world leading country, and all are influenced and affected by our policies you have every right to comment.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> LOL Peacegoddess. Wasn't that supposed to happen when Obamacare was introduced? Let's see...... everyone's guns were going to be confiscated by the government, according to Michele Bachmann, Obama was going to bring about the end of the world. Legalizing gay marriage will certainly end the world, and now climate change. ,,SARCASM>>
> Republican evangelicals create their own fear.


BrattyPatty
fear fills the Church Pews -keeping fear alive is good for business.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It is l0 am here on Vancouver Island. I just received an emai from my friend from Hamilton, Ontario. She is interested in Politics too 
*-------------------------------------------*
_Our Federal General election (Canada) is coming up in October. She sent me this and I thought you might enjoy knowing Politics are starting to be discussed up here_.

Quote from her message: (Not sure where she got it).

""As we approach the next general election just keep this in mind...........

While stitching a cut on the hand of a 75 year old farmer, whose hand was caught in the squeeze gate while working cattle,the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to politicians and their role as our leaders.

The old farmer said, "Well, as I see it, *most politicians are 'Post Tortoises'.*'

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a 'Post Tortoise' was.

The old farmer said, "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a tortoise balanced

on top, that's a Post Tortoise."

The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. You know he didn't get up there by

himself, he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, he's elevated beyond his ability to

function, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put him up there to begin with."

Best explanation of a politician I've ever heard""".

-------
Sound familiar?
*======================*
Our Federal election (every 4 years) is being held in October.Very little in the news up to now although it is starting to to be discussed quite a bit. It will heat up in late August or early September . I am so thankful our elections are so straightforward here.

We will know what Federal Party wins and who will be the head of that Party (Prime Minister) and if changes are made, (I hope) the new Prime Minister will start right in. So much easier and less nasty than what is happening down there.imo

Each party riding in Canada will accept one person to run for election as a Member of Parliament for his or her party. Each party will be repesented in each riding. There will be an election and all the ridings results will be counted across the country. Each Party total will be counted carefully and the winning party will form the Government majority, or in some cases will lead a minority 
Government. Those members will have voted for who they want for the leader - the winning party will run the Government and the head of that party becomes Prime Minister.
There is definitely a feeling of change in my opinion.

I am hoping the Party (New Democratic Party) will win over the Progressive Conservatives as I am not thrilled at all with some of the Conservative actions. So keep an eye on the NORTH this next few months-- I think it will be interesting.

It will really be something if the PC's are beaten but it is becoming a possibility. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Did anyone see Jake Tapper's interview with Trump today?
How can anyone vote for him? soooo arrogant.

He is against same sex marriage. Jake asked him, what gives him the right to judge a couple in love, when he has been married three times? He hemmed and hawed and said he was too interested in his business to be a good husband.

He never answered the question. I only watched a part of it as I can't stand his arrogance and self love. He is interested, (in my opinion) only in winning more attention to feed his ego.

We'll be back later- going down to Maple Bay and watch the kids 
Kayak and water board. Hayley is getting very very good with both. 
DIL is painting the inside of the house they just bought so life is busy for them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> We'll be back later- going down to Maple Bay and watch the kids
> Kayak and water board. Hayley is getting very very good with both.
> DIL is painting the inside of the house they just bought so life is busy for them.


Watch your step, please.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Watch your step, please.


just got back. I was very very careful. Too crowded!

Parking is blocks away from Maple Bay. We went to an icecream shop and had an ice cream and came back home. Weekends are too busy for us. We would rather drive around during the week.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> fear fills the Church Pews -keeping fear alive is good for business.


So sad - none of you are 'out to get them' . You just want 
laws that don't say one group of Americans is better than another group and should be treated as second class citizens.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I think it is interesting that certain Christian sects are so derisive of the Pope and the Catholic Church. Why does it seem that there is tolerance only for what they support?


It is interesting that all Christian Churches are not on the same page. I remember it was the case when I was young.

So much history that they wish we could all forget!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops double post -- sorry


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If we don't know how the rest of the world thinks, how can we call ourselves informed and worldly people? Thank you for your kind thoughts about our President.
> 
> He seems to me to be a good and gracious person who is concerned about the welfare of his constituency whether they are his friends or foes. Talk about grace under pressure!


I have not heard much, if any derogatory remarks from anyone up here. The news we get are copies of what the news says in the States (newspapers) . We get the American and Canadian news. He is highly thought of by most up here. However there is the odd derogatory remard about race.

Most of us respect and admire him. He is a good man.

I am glad we are welcomed here and our ideas and beliefs can be discussed. The world IS watching what is happening there. This has been a big, positive week as far as a lot of Canadians are concerned. It is likely not so well received by the Conservatives. Honestly I haven't seen any 
discussions, or disagreements on the CBC which is our main news source. (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation).

I just watched Governor Cuomo, a Catholic, marry two members of the Gay community in New York. He has been one of those who has supported the community for some time. Good for him!!! Another class act!!! The marriages have started!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If we don't know how the rest of the world thinks, how can we call ourselves informed and worldly people? Thank you for your kind thoughts about our President.
> 
> He seems to me to be a good and gracious person who is concerned about the welfare of his constituency whether they are his friends or foes. Talk about grace under pressure!


Most of them are very proud that they won't listen to a word he says, as 'they are all lies'. Obviously he has decided enough is enough.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Tenimi a Peara he kino said:


> That would be nice if she changed her mind, but I fear the conspiracy theories contained within the article will prove too much to resist.


I am afraid you are correct.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Tenimi a Peara he kino said:


> Oh, I'm so sorry that's been so upsetting for you and your son. Your son may have been experiencing a bit of PTSD.
> 
> And anything that happens so close to home has a tendency to remind us how mortal and vulnerable we all really are. We make plans for tomorrow, bit seeing something like that reminds us how futile planning could be. Tomorrow? ... I may not make it past 15 minutes!
> 
> ...


So true. 
That's why I just bought a fab pair of 1960's sunglasses on etsy, they were far too expensive but they are divine and I know I'll enjoy them greatly.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> ===========KFN
> This is possibly the person who you quoted about Autism being caused by Vaccination. He committed suicide once it was proven that he was l00% wrong.
> 
> I hope this might help you change your mind?
> ...


I have a feeling he's was up to something relating to corporate fraud or misappropriation of money Designer. No doubt more will be uncovered.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

The second escaped prisoner, Sweat, has been captured. Hooray!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Tenimi a Peara he kino said:


> That would be nice if she changed her mind, but I fear the conspiracy theories contained within the article will prove too much to resist.


I am afraid you are correct.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

THEY GOT HIM! Sweat was shot and injured 2 miles south of the Canadian Border. No word on his condition. Most are hoping he survives as he can give them so much information. It says he is now in Emergency. Nothing more than that yet. 

It must be a relief for everyone.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> So sad - none of you are 'out to get them' . You just want laws that don't say one group of Americans is better than another group and should be treated as second class citizens.


Mainly, nobody in any country should be treated like second class citizens. Is it self loathing or self doubt that drives people to put others down to make themselves seem superior? Is it the hunger for power? Being told all their lives that they are superior by parents who have a warped way of building a child's self esteem?

There is something intrinsically wrong with a person who cannot enjoy a proud sense of self without having to put someone else down.

And then there are all those angry men who cannot take rejection from a woman. Think of the women all around the world who are killed because some man cannot accept that he is not Mr. Wonderful to any woman he wants.

It gets creepy out there! So glad we are so many of us good people who look out for one another, are kind to one another, and have been blessed with friends and family who have the same outlook.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Most of them are very proud that they won't listen to a word he says, as 'they are all lies'. Obviously he has decided enough is enough.


Speaking about perceived lies; go to www.nj.com and read the column by Tom Moran in today's issue. There are a couple of other eye opening articles that may help people understand matters as well.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Mainly, nobody in any country should be treated like second class citizens. Is it self loathing or self doubt that drives people to put others down to make themselves seem superior? Is it the hunger for power? Being told all their lives that they are superior by parents who have a warped way of building a child's self esteem?
> 
> There is something intrinsically wrong with a person who cannot enjoy a proud sense of self without having to put someone else down.
> 
> ...


If you really believe that then why do you do it? Please explain.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If you really believe that then why do you do it? Please explain.


Please clarify. Why do I do what?

If you think I am putting you down, perhaps you should examine what *you* say before you make comments regarding others. Glass houses and all that.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Please clarify. Why do I do what?
> 
> If you think I am putting you down, perhaps you should examine what *you* say before you make comments regarding others. Glass houses and all that.


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Please clarify. Why do I do what?
> 
> If you think I am putting you down, perhaps you should examine what *you* say before you make comments regarding others. Glass houses and all that.


Good luck pointing that out to her. I've tried.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I have not heard much, if any derogatory remarks from anyone up here. The news we get are copies of what the news says in the States (newspapers) . We get the American and Canadian news. He is highly thought of by most up here. However there is the odd derogatory remard about race.
> 
> Most of us respect and admire him. He is a good man.
> 
> ...


I implied that Conservatives here are in favor of Obama. I haven't heard anything against him but I know that some
Conservatives are on exactly the same page as those down there. I don't want to state that all Canadians agree with me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> THEY GOT HIM! Sweat was shot and injured 2 miles south of the Canadian Border. No word on his condition. Most are hoping he survives as he can give them so much information. It says he is now in Emergency. Nothing more than that yet.
> 
> It must be a relief for everyone.


Thank goodness! Now upstate New Yorkers can sleep once again!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Speaking about perceived lies; go to www.nj.com and read the column by Tom Moran in today's issue. There are a couple of other eye opening articles that may help people understand matters as well.


Has Christie announced that he is running? I am in the midst of having a cup of tea at my desk. I knew he was thinking about it. Did I miss that? I never cared for him that much.

I get a different feeling in the news today. Sweat was arrested, all the great news about the law changes, Obama's wonderful speech at the Church. There is a lightness felt now. It seems as if he has reached the point where it is 
enough!! I admire him greatly -- Michele too.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Has Christie announced that he is running? I am in the midst of having a cup of tea at my desk. I knew he was thinking about it. Did I miss that? I never cared for him that much.
> 
> I get a different feeling in the news today. Sweat was arrested, all the great news about the law changes, Obama's wonderful speech at the Church. There is a lightness felt now. It seems as if he has reached the point where it is
> enough!! I admire him greatly -- Michele too.


He has announced that he will be making an announcement on Tuesday.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Has Christie announced that he is running? I am in the midst of having a cup of tea at my desk. I knew he was thinking about it. Did I miss that? I never cared for him that much.


It is conjectured he will announce Tuesday at Livingston NJ HS from which he graduated. Considering the insults and disparagements he has made about teachers, I am surprised they acceded to his self invitation.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Question about the group running for the Conservatives hoping to run for President.

What happens now?  do they have a vote somewhere? do they act like it is an election, only for the person who will finally be chosen to run? I don't remember ever seeing the number of Conservatives running.

How do they decide who will actually run for President at the Conservative conventions, or do they have the vote there as to who is chosen.

One of my friends asked me on line (from Calgary) and I wasn't at all sure of the answer. Won't that many people running cause a huge mess? Shirley


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Question about the group running for the Conservative hoping to run for President.
> 
> What happens now?  do they have a vote somewhere? do they act like it is an election, only for the person who will finally be chosen to run? I don't remember ever seeing the number of Conservatives running.
> 
> ...


Primary elections determine the favorites in each state, then there will be a national republican convention next year with representatives from every state to decide the party pick. All of this is a LONG way off.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I implied that Conservatives here are in favor of Obama. I haven't heard anything against him but I know that some
> Conservatives are on exactly the same page as those down there. I don't want to state that all Canadians agree with me.


There are reasons why conservatives in ant country would favor President Obama. He is a very centrist democrat and many of his economic, environmental, and military/international policies are conservative.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Good luck pointing that out to her. I've tried.


It won't do any good. Half the time I am not even sure what she is saying.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> There are reasons why conservatives in ant country would favor President Obama. He is a very centrist democrat and many of his economic, environmental, and military/international policies are conservative.


I feel that he is logical, wants the best for the US and it amazes me how much they hate him. Doesn't seem to me that he has done anything to warrant the hatred. except possibly that he is black and they have been raised to 
expect black men to be less and the thought of one being President is something that they don't seem to be able to deal with .


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel that he is logical, wants the best for the US and it amazes me how much they hate him. Doesn't seem to me that he has done anything to warrant the hatred. except possibly that he is black and they have been raised to
> expect black men to be less and the thought of one being President is something that they don't seem to be able to deal with .


Very well said, Shirley. I agree with you 100%!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel that he is logical, wants the best for the US and it amazes me how much they hate him. Doesn't seem to me that he has done anything to warrant the hatred. except possibly that he is black and they have been raised to
> expect black men to be less and the thought of one being President is something that they don't seem to be able to deal with .


He's seen as liberal, too. The combination is hateful to those Tea Party witches.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel that he is logical, wants the best for the US and it amazes me how much they hate him. Doesn't seem to me that he has done anything to warrant the hatred. except possibly that he is black and they have been raised to
> expect black men to be less and the thought of one being President is something that they don't seem to be able to deal with .


While I agree he is demonized by extreme conservatives and people who by their comments appear racist, I, personally consider him lacking as a democrat (president). He has opened up the arctic to Shell oil for drilling, approved building of new nuclear power plants, has put off ruling on the keystone XL pipeline, drones use in the Middle East, let the major banks off the hook for bank issues, was naive in expecting cooperation from Congress (actually did not have enough experience or leverage in Congress) reneged on Guantanamo promise, ACA should have been constructed as single payer program. I will not go on and I am proud I did not fall for his rhetoric and waste my vote on someone so centrist as him. Many young voters I have spoken with are thourghly disappointed by his presidency and as he originally inspired youth I think he has alienated many who voted for him.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> While I agree he is demonized by extreme conservatives and people who by their comments appear racist, I, personally consider him lacking as a democrat (president). He has opened up the arctic to Shell oil for drilling, approved building of new nuclear power plants, has put off ruling on the keystone XL pipeline, drones use in the Middle East, let the major banks off the hook for bank issues, was naive in expecting cooperation from Congress (actually did not have enough experience or leverage in Congress) reneged on Guantanamo promise, ACA should have been constructed as single payer program. I will not go on and I am proud I did not fall for his rhetoric and waste my vote on someone so centrist as him. Many young voters I have spoken with are thourghly disappointed by his presidency and as he originally inspired youth I think he has alienated many who voted for him.


He's certainly disappointed me because he's no liberal. Weak on the environment and too easy on those Wall Street thieves and too quick to compromise. Now that he's well into his second term, at least he is becoming bolder. I am still proud to have voted for him over any other candidate he ran against.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Question about the group running for the Conservatives hoping to run for President.
> 
> What happens now?  do they have a vote somewhere? do they act like it is an election, only for the person who will finally be chosen to run? I don't remember ever seeing the number of Conservatives running.
> 
> ...


I am far enough removed from civics courses that i may not be 100% accurate in the following. Some of you folks who are more on top of the details of the political process feel free to correct anything where I am off.

Each of the states has a primary election in which registered party members of each party vote for a candidate on that party's slate. If one is registered as a Republican and there are 15 candidates, whichever one gets the most votes is that state's chosen candidate. At the national Republican convention I think the delegates from each state have to vote for the winning candidate from their state on the first ballot. If any candidate wins enough votes to be the party candidate on the first ballot, that is it. However, if there are several candidates with a healthy number of votes but nobody with enough to be chosen, then the wheeling and dealing starts, with someone offering their votes in exchange for whatever, the vice presidential slot? An ambassadorship to some place considered prestigious? A cabinet post such as Secretary of State? Eventually somebody is selected.

Sometimes one of the runners up has his/her nose so far out of joint they run as an independent in the general election. If the person who is selected is too middle of the road for the most conservative elements, something like the Tea Party may split off and run their own candidate as a third party, the way Teddy Roosevelt ran as a Bull Moose or the way Ross Perot ran in 1992.

It will be interesting. It may end up being a circus.

The Democrats also have a national convention. Right now Hillary is the predominant candidate, and Bernie Sanders is attracting people to his ideas.

Once each major party has its candidate, then the campaigning starts in earnest. There are usually candidates from other parties such as the Libertarians, the Green, etc. When I was a kid Eugene Debs was the continuing candidate for the Communist party. In the general election, whoever wins each state gets the votes of the electors from that state. We do not elect by majority of popular vote. If we did, our list of presidents would have been different from the way it is and the world would have a different ambiance. We don't have minority party representation in our legislature, either, the way it is in a parliamentarian system.

In my opinion, the electoral college system is a throwback to the paternalistic outlook of the founding fathers. I don't think they had much faith in the good sense of the general public. In some ways, seeing how some of the general public operate, they may have been justified. But I don't think the electoral college reflects the will of the majority the way a popular vote does.

I have a friend who says it doesn't matter who you vote for as much as it does who counts the votes. Even more cynical than I am! Yes, I hang around with jaded people. Much more interesting than sheep.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

ladies, this is just TOO GOOD. I hope it's true.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It won't do any good. Half the time I am not even sure what she is saying.


And the other half, she's not even sure what she's saying.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> While I agree he is demonized by extreme conservatives and people who by their comments appear racist, I, personally consider him lacking as a democrat (president). He has opened up the arctic to Shell oil for drilling, approved building of new nuclear power plants, has put off ruling on the keystone XL pipeline, drones use in the Middle East, let the major banks off the hook for bank issues, was naive in expecting cooperation from Congress (actually did not have enough experience or leverage in Congress) reneged on Guantanamo promise, ACA should have been constructed as single payer program. I will not go on and I am proud I did not fall for his rhetoric and waste my vote on someone so centrist as him. Many young voters I have spoken with are thourghly disappointed by his presidency and as he originally inspired youth I think he has alienated many who voted for him.


Peace, that's almost a complete list, all things that I find disappointing, too. It also appears that his talks with Iran are going to backfire. He's not the first president I'm disappointed in, and he has done some things right, but with the support he had, he should have listened more to his base.

(Pretty early in his first term, it occurred to me that he was so often doing things to spite the left that I stopped signing petitions because he would turn around and do the opposite of what they wanted.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> <Deleted because there was nothing I disagreed with. :twisted:> Once each major party has its candidate, then the campaigning starts in earnest. There are usually candidates from other parties such as the Libertarians, the Green, etc. When I was a kid Eugene Debs was the continuing candidate for the Communist party. In the general election, whoever wins each state gets the votes of the electors from that state. We do not elect by majority of popular vote. If we did, our list of presidents would have been different from the way it is and the world would have a different ambiance. We don't have minority party representation in our legislature, either, the way it is in a parliamentarian system.
> 
> In my opinion, the electoral college system is a throwback to the paternalistic outlook of the founding fathers. I don't think they had much faith in the good sense of the general public. In some ways, seeing how some of the general public operate, they may have been justified. But I don't think the electoral college reflects the will of the majority the way a popular vote does.
> 
> I have a friend who says it doesn't matter who you vote for as much as it does who counts the votes. Even more cynical than I am! Yes, I hang around with jaded people. Much more interesting than sheep.


Debs was a Socialist; it was Gus Hall who ran for the Communist Party, every four years.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Debs was a Socialist; it was Gus Hall who ran for the Communist Party, every four years.


Give me a good Socialist any day. Go Bernie!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> While I agree he is demonized by extreme conservatives and people who by their comments appear racist, I, personally consider him lacking as a democrat (president). He has opened up the arctic to Shell oil for drilling, approved building of new nuclear power plants, has put off ruling on the keystone XL pipeline, drones use in the Middle East, let the major banks off the hook for bank issues, was naive in expecting cooperation from Congress (actually did not have enough experience or leverage in Congress) reneged on Guantanamo promise, ACA should have been constructed as single payer program. I will not go on and I am proud I did not fall for his rhetoric and waste my vote on someone so centrist as him. Many young voters I have spoken with are thourghly disappointed by his presidency and as he originally inspired youth I think he has alienated many who voted for him.


we will have to say we strongly disagree.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Primary elections determine the favorites in each state, then there will be a national republican convention next year with representatives from every state to decide the party pick. All of this is a LONG way off.


What happens with the group who have announced they are running for President. I understand what you say, but how is the President picked from 12 people before the convention?

Sorry - I would think there would have to be a run off somewhere, when the final person running will win??


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Give me a good Socialist any day. Go Bernie!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> What happens with the group who have announced they are running for President. I understand what you say, but how is the President picked from 12 people before the convention?
> 
> Sorry - I would think there would have to be a run off somewhere, when the final person running will win??


Each state conducts a primary election and the winner is the candidate of choice from that state. Because we have a two party system, both Democrats and Republicans vote, but are pretty much restricted to voting for only candidates from their own party. There are exceptions and complications because each state has its own rules, but I'm describing the basic idea. Rarely does a candidate from any other party have a serious chance of winning anything.

Delegates from each party from each state go to their respective national conventions where the presidential candidates are chosen. Delegates are theoretically supposed to vote for the guy that won their state election, but not always. They can change their mind if they get romanced by a strong candidate, though some states' delegates are legally bound to cast their vote in accordance with the votes of their citizens. It's very, very messy. But there are only two real candidates after the convention; a republican and a democrat. We sometimes see independents or green party candidates, but unless they were to win the majority they simply go away after the election. This is unfortunate because we disregard many wonderful candidates because they are not mainstream and are viewed as having no chance of winning - voting for them is a wasted vote.

The losers? They're done because winner takes all.

Between now and when the primary elections begin, I believe a lot of the republican clowns will go away. Candidates will make stupid statements and do themselves in. Others will have skeletons dragged out and they will go away in disgrace. Others won't be able to raise enough money to keep up with the more popular competition so they will drop out. By next spring, when the real business of electing a president starts, the field will have narrowed a lot.

I predict none of the republican buffoons currently in the republican ring will be the eventual candidate. Too soon, too many opportunities to make critical errors. I don't think any of them have the intelligence or character to stand up to scrutiny and they're all peas in a pod.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I feel that he is logical, wants the best for the US and it amazes me how much they hate him. Doesn't seem to me that he has done anything to warrant the hatred. except possibly that he is black and they have been raised to
> expect black men to be less and the thought of one being President is something that they don't seem to be able to deal with .


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: This is the only logical explanation as far as I can tell.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> What happens with the group who have announced they are running for President. I understand what you say, but how is the President picked from 12 people before the convention?
> 
> Sorry - I would think there would have to be a run off somewhere, when the final person running will win??


The convention is where the equivalent of a run off occurs. If you have a chance to tune in, the circus is usually on national TV.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

THINGS ARE HEATING UP:
No doubt with The Donald in the run for the Presidency that will be the case. He with pride stated again that if he was President, he would build a Wall at the Borders and said the he knows how to build, Bomb the Iraq Oil Fields and put the Iranians in their place. He also not only insulted Mexicans as Robbers, Murderers and Rapists but accused people from other countries of these atrocities as well. What a way to win friends and influence people. Now with those plans we better start building underground Bunkers to hide in. 

It will be interesting to find out which Pea brains will support him.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The convention is where the equivalent of a run off occurs. If you have a chance to tune in, the circus is usually on national TV.


MarilynKnits
Is Reince Priebus planning to get The Donald kicked out in the first round? How could he wind up there otherwise? Trump is a Greenhorn and should be in last place since even 67% of the Republicans don't like him. What am I missing?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: This is the only logical explanation as far as I can tell.


damemary
hating President Obama because he is black is the ONLY explanation. Racism and bigotry at work.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Each state conducts a primary election and the winner is the candidate of choice from that state. Because we have a two party system, both Democrats and Republicans vote, but are pretty much restricted to voting for only candidates from their own party. There are exceptions and complications because each state has its own rules, but I'm describing the basic idea. Rarely does a candidate from any other party have a serious chance of winning anything.
> 
> Delegates from each party from each state go to their respective national conventions where the presidential candidates are chosen. Delegates are theoretically supposed to vote for the guy that won their state election, but not always. They can change their mind if they get romanced by a strong candidate, though some states' delegates are legally bound to cast their vote in accordance with the votes of their citizens. It's very, very messy. But there are only two real candidates after the convention; a republican and a democrat. We sometimes see independents or green party candidates, but unless they were to win the majority they simply go away after the election. This is unfortunate because we disregard many wonderful candidates because they are not mainstream and are viewed as having no chance of winning - voting for them is a wasted vote.
> 
> ...


Thankyou I understand it better now. I appreciate your knowledge and smarts.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> THINGS ARE HEATING UP:
> No doubt with The Donald in the run for the Presidency that will be the case. He with pride stated again that if he was President, he would build a Wall at the Borders and said the he knows how to build, Bomb the Iraq Oil Fields and put the Iranians in their place. He also not only insulted Mexicans as Robbers, Murderers and Rapists but accused people from other countries of these atrocities as well. What a way to win friends and influence people. Now with those plans we better start building underground Bunkers to hide in.
> 
> It will be interesting to find out which Pea brains will support him.


It will be the Archie Bunkers who support him.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It will be the Archie Bunkers who support him.


Poor Purl
oh I forgot, those folks never die, do they.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou I understand it better now. I appreciate your knowledge and smarts.


I appreciate your smarts and interest.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Is Reince Priebus planning to get The Donald kicked out in the first round? How could he wind up there otherwise? Trump is a Greenhorn and should be in last place since even 67% of the Republicans don't like him. What am I missing?


Don't know which one the boys in the back room are going to push. I am sure the powers behind the throne have their fave picked out. May not even be one of the chorus line we see out there now.

I read in our newspapers what the editors think of our donation to the cause. Basically can't stand him and call him out on all the mean and underhanded things he continues to do. I wonder what the local papers where reporters are intimately familiar with particular candidates are saying about theirs. Any suggestions of newspapers to pick up on line? If you don't want the world to know where you live and think you can trust me PM me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well, here we go: "The Truth as I see it" - "The Truth as I believe it" is what he told the crowd. You hear what I hear?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I don't know if any of you had watched the White House Correspondence dinner this year. President Obama made a remark which goes like this. It's not the whole dinner, but just a 2 minute clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHs


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> CHRIS CHRISTIE:
> Well, here we go: "The Truth as I see it" - "The Truth as I believe it" is what he told the crowd. You hear what I hear?


I think we can safely ignore that blob of goo. He's a proven liar and his competition will point that out for all of us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I think we can safely ignore that blob of goo. He's a proven liar and his competition will point that out for all of us.


DGreen
I am sure you are right. With sooooo many folks trying to get to the front, it should be very interesting for us. I think that there will be no need (until the very end) for Democrats to underline the problems with Republicans, they will hit each other hard all the way. Their right will go after their left.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't know if any of you had watched the White House Correspondence dinner this year. President Obama made a remark which goes like this. It's not the whole dinner, but just a 2 minute clip.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHs


BrattyPatty
Thank you very much. I get so much pleasure out of the President's speech and his delivery is superb.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't know if any of you had watched the White House Correspondence dinner this year. President Obama made a remark which goes like this. It's not the whole dinner, but just a 2 minute clip.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ng3gapfiHs


After he retires from the presidency he gets the late night show on whichever channel is the highest bidder. The man is amazing!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I think we can safely ignore that blob of goo. He's a proven liar and his competition will point that out for all of us.


Something in today's paper about research Romney did when scoping possible running mates. As with all confidential issues, somebody leaked the results. Ruled CC out because of issues that could come up to his detriment. Like to bite him on the a$$!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> After he retires from the presidency he gets the late night show on whichever channel is the highest bidder. The man is amazing!


MarilynKnits
yes, he would outshine all other Hosts.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Something in today's paper about research Romney did when scoping possible running mates. As with all confidential issues, somebody leaked the results. Ruled CC out because of issues that could come up to his detriment. Like to bite him on the a$$!


MarilynKnits
I am sure that Christie's "legend" will bite him in the "after mass". Need no dogs to hunt him, he will seal his own fate.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I am sure that Christie's "legend" will bite him in the "after mass". Need no dogs to hunt him, he will seal his own fate.


It was reported that the Superintendent of Schools where Christie graduated and where he announced his candidacy today did not attend. The Supt is no fan.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I am sure that Christie's "legend" will bite him in the "after mass". Need no dogs to hunt him, he will seal his own fate.


If those dogs are hungry, they will certainly have enough to eat!


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


You are correct. There is sufficient reason to question his eligibility to be president without making fun of him. He has had bariatric surgery and appears to have lost weight. He seems to be trying.

Regardless of what I think of any politician, I would hope everybody took care of themselves and stayed as healthy as possible. Beside each person's personal benefit, it would be a great benefit to all of us to have as many of us as healthy as possible in light of containing health care costs to us all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


Most of the time I'd agree with you, sumpleby, but anyone who insults folks by shoving his backside into their faces is fair game IMHO.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


It has everything to do with his health which has a lot to do with his ability.
Obesity can lead to heart attacks, diabetes etc. As every president before him, he will be under a huge amount of stress and we know how stress affects the heart too. I say if he can't take care of himself, then he can't take care of this country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


It has everything to do with his health which has a lot to do with his ability.
Obesity can lead to heart attacks, diabetes etc. As every president before him, he will be under a huge amount of stress and we know how stress affects the heart, too. I say if he can't take care of himself, then he can't take care of this country.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Much as I am NOT fan of Christie, I think pokes about his weight are just not right. Weight has nothing to do with ability.


sumpleby
normally I would agree with you but this guy goes after everyone for whatever suits him. He NEVER holds back on insults. We harvest what we sow and he has not spread "nice".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Most of the time I'd agree with you, sumpleby, but anyone who insults folks by shoving his backside into their faces is fair game IMHO.


Exactly. He uses his weight as a weapon, so making fun of it is called for.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Exactly. He uses his weight as a weapon, so making fun of it is called for.


His middle is the least of it. His big, fat mouth scares me. He is a thug, plain and simple.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> His middle is the least of it. His big, fat mouth scares me. He is a thug, plain and simple.


I can just see him telling the other world leaders to "SHUT UP!". He is so classy....... NOT!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, all! Cheeky


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night, all! Cheeky


Night, Cheeky. Pleasant dreams!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Exactly. He uses his weight as a weapon, so making fun of it is called for.


And the political cartoons are just starting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And the political cartoons are just starting.


And it's a good start. Very funny cartoons.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I can just see him telling the other world leaders to "SHUT UP!". He is so classy....... NOT!


BrattyPatty
aren't we joyous, Macy's kicked Trump in the Rump. Hope some others will follow.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

C U B A:
what has been L O N G overdue is finally coming to pass. We are making Friends with Cuba again. Thank you Mr. President. 
As soon as possible I shall visit that once most beautiful country. I am jubilant for its people. Too sad that some people passed on before this happened. Dear Friends longed for this for decades.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And the political cartoons are just starting.


MarilynKnits
Thanks you, cute Posters. His bullying will boomerang.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Thanks you, cute Posters. His bullying will boomerang.


Just got a post from an on line newspaper listing all the NJ politicians and local business people who have joined as a group to promote his campaign. Wondering how many have their hearts in it, how many are looking for payback, and how many are doing it out of fear of retaliation.

Think of Mayor Fulop of Jersey City, Mayor Mark Sokolich of Fort Lee and Mayor Dawn Zimmer of Hoboken. Not only were they targeted, their towns and constituents suffered retaliation for not endorsing Christie in his campaign for a second term as governor.

Maybe some of these people deserve the benefit of the doubt as perhaps protecting the interests of the people by not crossing his governorship's candidacy. There is money for infrastructure maintenance, there are partially completed traffic improvement projects, and other benefits where thousands of people would be s*r*w*d over big time if state money didn't show up. Or if major state highways were closed for construction during heavy traffic hours.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just got a post from an on line newspaper listing all the NJ politicians and local business people who have joined as a group to promote his campaign. Wondering how many have their hearts in it, how many are looking for payback, and how many are doing it out of fear of retaliation.
> 
> Think of Mayor Fulop of Jersey City, Mayor Mark Sokolich of Fort Lee and Mayor Dawn Zimmer of Hoboken. Not only were they targeted, their towns and constituents suffered retaliation for not endorsing Christie in his campaign for a second term as governor.
> 
> Maybe some of these people deserve the benefit of the doubt as perhaps protecting the interests of the people by not crossing his governorship's candidacy. There is money for infrastructure maintenance, there are partially completed traffic improvement projects, and other benefits where thousands of people would be s*r*w*d over big time if state money didn't show up. Or if major state highways were closed for construction during heavy traffic hours.


And Christie has already shown them he's prepared to do those things. He's even prepared to withhold federal money (e.g., for Hurricane Sandy) from towns with mayors he doesn't like.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It won't do any good. Half the time I am not even sure what she is saying.


And the other half you are agreeing with me. :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And the other half you are agreeing with me. :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Only in your twisted mind.
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And Christie has already shown them he's prepared to do those things. He's even prepared to withhold federal money (e.g., for Hurricane Sandy) from towns with mayors he doesn't like.


Here would be a Republican ticket from hell: Christie/Trump. Imagine them snarling how stupid everyone is, followed by shrieks of "sit down and shut up." :-D


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Here would be a Republican ticket from hell: Christie/Trump. Imagine them snarling how stupid everyone is, followed by shrieks of "sit down and shut up." :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Here would be a Republican ticket from hell: Christie/Trump. Imagine them snarling how stupid everyone is, followed by shrieks of "sit down and shut up." :-D


I don't believe there would be enough room for those two huge egos on one ticket.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And the other half you are agreeing with me. :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


maybe one time out of every 8 - certainly not the majority of the time. I have no bone to pick with you. Actually, I think you are quite smart, but don't agree with most of what you say. Yes, sometimes, we are on the same page, rarely but sometimes. I am at least willing to say so. Never the other way around though. to be expected.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

*


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

#


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> *


How can we expect billions to buy class when it can't even buy a decent rug?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> *


I still think that thing on his head is alive.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I still think that thing on his head is alive.


And one day it's going to get so embarrassed by what he says that it will pick itself up and walk away.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And one day it's going to get so embarrassed by what he says that it will pick itself up and walk away.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And one day it's going to get so embarrassed by what he says that it will pick itself up and walk away.


dp


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> aren't we joyous, Macy's kicked Trump in the Rump. Hope some others will follow.


I CAN'T even imagine what kind of President he would make and the things he would do. It is a nightmare if he wins.

I have been reading some threads on the Right and there are people who think he would be a GOOD??????President and 
that he 'tells it like it is. Sheesh!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> #


BrattyPatty
how would the appearance of Jesus end? We know that he is dark skinned, has long hair, wears a dress and flip flops, is a Socialist and gathers certainly not the rich (they would not want to be seen with him) = here come the Cops.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I CAN'T even imagine what kind of President he would make and the things he would do. It is a nightmare if he wins.
> 
> I have been reading some threads on the Right and there are people who think he would be a GOOD??????President and
> that he 'tells it like it is. Sheesh!!


They're desperate, I suppose, as each GOP candidate is worse than the next. If the stakes weren't so high I'd almost be amused if Trump (or Cruz or Walker or Jindal) won--the DC machine (both Republicans and Democrats) would flatten them in a month, and they'd be driven out of office within a year.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
Thank you for Donald's picture. Most men improve in looks with age, not him and he is a wonderful example that class cannot be bought. Among the rich he is the elephant in the china shop.
He is doing so much harm to the GOP but nobody takes him on. There seems to be a conspiracy to let him die on his own and as quickly as possible. 

And then there is Chris Christie, SOME REAL NUT he has been endorsed by.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Thank you for Donald's picture. Most men improve in looks with age, not him and he is a wonderful example that class cannot be bought. Among the rich he is the elephant in the china shop.
> He is doing so much harm to the GOP but nobody takes him on. There seems to be a conspiracy to let him die on his own and as quickly as possible.
> 
> And then there is Chris Christie, SOME REAL NUT he has been endorsed by.


I wonder if any more will be popping out of the woodwork? What is the GOP ticket count now?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> They're desperate, I suppose, as each GOP candidate is worse than the next. If the stakes weren't so high I'd almost be amused if Trump (or Cruz or Walker or Jindal) won--the DC machine (both Republicans and Democrats) would flatten them in a month, and they'd be driven out of office within a year.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> How can we expect billions to buy class when it can't even buy a decent rug?


The sad thing is that, he knows that billions can buy an election. Otherwise, he wouldn't even be running.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> They're desperate, I suppose, as each GOP candidate is worse than the next. If the stakes weren't so high I'd almost be amused if Trump (or Cruz or Walker or Jindal) won--the DC machine (both Republicans and Democrats) would flatten them in a month, and they'd be driven out of office within a year.


I have to agree with your first sentence. Unless something changes, this will be the first time since turning 18, that I will NOT be voting for a president! I don't have the stomach for it!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The sad thing is that, he knows that billions can buy an election. Otherwise, he wouldn't even be running.


Several news sources say that his "billions" are really small millions. The Koch Bros money will blow him right out of the race.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'll bet Wombat is yarn shopping today. Have you all seen the shawls she makes? Beautiful!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And one day it's going to get so embarrassed by what he says that it will pick itself up and walk away.


This made me laugh.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> This made me laugh.


Me too! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'll bet Wombat is yarn shopping today. Have you all seen the shawls she makes? Beautiful!


She is a very good crafts person. I think she sews very well also. Anyone with a dress form has to be good.

How did this topic pop up?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> She is a very good crafts person. I think she sews very well also. Anyone with a dress form has to be good.
> 
> How did this topic pop up?


Because it is day time over in OZ and Wombat is usually online at this time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> She is a very good crafts person. I think she sews very well also. Anyone with a dress form has to be good.
> 
> How did this topic pop up?


I have a dress form. Actually I have 2. A child's and an adults. I have to use one to fit my clothes properly when I do sew for myself. I have a couple of long casual summer dresses to make and a couple of tops as soon as I finish Brynn's sundresses.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have a dress form. Actually I have 2. A child's and an adults. I have to use one to fit my clothes properly when I do sew for myself. I have a couple of long casual summer dresses to make and a couple of tops as soon as I finish Brynn's sundresses.


Then you are probably as capable as Wombat or maybe 2 x as capable. Post a pic online and let us know the title.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> how would the appearance of Jesus end? We know that he is dark skinned, has long hair, wears a dress and flip flops, is a Socialist and gathers certainly not the rich (they would not want to be seen with him) = here come the Cops.


He would probably next be seen on the ground face down with a big foot clamped down on the middle of his back.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

From GannettNJ by Bob Gordon:

Gov. Chris Christie has become one of the first candidates for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination to land an endorsement from a sitting GOP governor. But it comes at a time when Maine Gov, Paul LePage is facing calls for his impeachment after threatening to pull state funding from a charter school if it hired a political rival.

The rest of the article is at http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/politics/new-jersey/chris-christie/2015/07/01/christie-lepage-president-endorsement/29567665/



Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Thank you for Donald's picture. Most men improve in looks with age, not him and he is a wonderful example that class cannot be bought. Among the rich he is the elephant in the china shop.
> He is doing so much harm to the GOP but nobody takes him on. There seems to be a conspiracy to let him die on his own and as quickly as possible.
> 
> And then there is Chris Christie, SOME REAL NUT he has been endorsed by.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have to agree with your first sentence. Unless something changes, this will be the first time since turning 18, that I will NOT be voting for a president! I don't have the stomach for it!


There have been occasions in the about 60 years that I have been voting that I have cast a vote for a minor party candidate. I know, I know, it won't count, but in it's own way it does serve to notify the major party candidates that there are people out there who do not endorse their stances.

If enough people vote what amounts to "none of the above" it may get some of the people we are stuck with as decision makers to think. A long shot in today's society, but we have few other options as individuals.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> From GannettNJ by Bob Gordon:
> 
> Gov. Chris Christie has become one of the first candidates for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination to land an endorsement from a sitting GOP governor. But it comes at a time when Maine Gov, Paul LePage is facing calls for his impeachment after threatening to pull state funding from a charter school if it hired a political rival.
> 
> The rest of the article is at http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/politics/new-jersey/chris-christie/2015/07/01/christie-lepage-president-endorsement/29567665/


Christie and LePage are soul mates after all. Each has hurt their own state while claiming their way is the only way to help it. Each is involved with scandal. So of course LePage is the natural candidate to endorse Christie.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Only in your twisted mind.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Oh, no no no - just the other day Designer agreed with me 100% and even threw in a few thumbs up.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> maybe one time out of every 8 - certainly not the majority of the time. I have no bone to pick with you. Actually, I think you are quite smart, but don't agree with most of what you say. Yes, sometimes, we are on the same page, rarely but sometimes. I am at least willing to say so. Never the other way around though. to be expected.


That might be true, but you are always ready and willing to throw a jab at every opportunity. I offer your last 3 words as proof.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I CAN'T even imagine what kind of President he would make and the things he would do. It is a nightmare if he wins.
> 
> I have been reading some threads on the Right and there are people who think he would be a GOOD??????President and
> that he 'tells it like it is. Sheesh!!


And then there is Hillary and the way the left falls all over her, despite the fact they find her untrustworthy. Her untrustworthiness is increasing from poll to poll, yet people will vote for her regardless.

Trump most likely doesn't have a chance, (never say never) but at least he has the guts to own what he says and stands up to the backlash. I haven't seen that kind of backbone from any of the other candidates from either party.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh, no no no - just the other day Designer agreed with me 100% and even threw in a few thumbs up.


I doubt anybody thinks you are stupid. You do make some worthy and thought provoking observations and contribute to the dialog. I consider it healthy to discuss matters with people with different viewpoints especially if each person gains knowledge and insights.

However, you do seem too ready to jump on people who do not agree with you in an insulting manner. And sometimes you seem to get very defensive. But those are my observations of your reactions, and we all have to think about how others perceive us.

If any of us are looked on as provocateurs looking to make trouble rather than engage in meaningful debate, it defeats the points we are trying to make. I will listen and evaluate the viewpoint of someone who has different ideas from mine. But if that person tries to tell me theirs is the only valuable viewpoint and that mine is stupid, or all lies, or disparages me on a personal level my mind tends to shut to anything they say, and my opinion of them plummets.

I try to keep my negative opinions to myself, because my opinions of some people who make accusations and attack on a personal level, were I to voice them, would probably get me suspended from KP for a lo-o-ong time. People like that are not worth the negative vibes they bring, and in the long run I feel sorry for them that they seem so unhappy and needy.

Let me close in wishing you (and everybody else reading this) a safe and enjoyable 4th of July.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And then there is Hillary and the way the left falls all over her, despite the fact they find her untrustworthy. Her untrustworthiness is increasing from poll to poll, yet people will vote for her regardless.
> 
> Trump most likely doesn't have a chance, (never say never) but at least he has the guts to own what he says and stands up to the backlash. I haven't seen that kind of backbone from any of the other candidates from either party.


I am not certain I would call it backbone to color an entire ethnicity with the kinds of slurs he threw at our neighbors South of the Rio Grande. Every group has members who bring shame to their families and fellows. But to have a negative that may apply to some, possibly very few, applied to the vast majority of a group who only want to better their lives and those of their children and do so in a law abiding manner is irresponsible.

Whether people like it or not, accept it or not, the world has shrunk to be one community of fellow humans. It is horrible the inhuman way some of our fellow travelers on this planet behave, the harm they bring, and the ongoing harm and destruction they promote.

I still think most of us have the same goals of wanting a safe home, adequate food and clothing, opportunities for our children to prosper, and peaceful coexistence regardless our faith, lack of faith, skin color, nationality, or other factors that differentiate us. People will try to move where there are opportunities for a better life whether those places welcome them or not.

It would probably be better for the world community as a whole if groups worked together to improve the quality of life across the planet so people would not feel the need to flee their homes. That would involve political leaders treating their fellows with respect and not being self serving pigs.

When you see politicians in action, it is hard to hold out much hope, though, isn't it?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> And then there is Hillary and the way the left falls all over her, despite the fact they find her untrustworthy. Her untrustworthiness is increasing from poll to poll, yet people will vote for her regardless.
> 
> Trump most likely doesn't have a chance, (never say never) but at least he has the guts to own what he says and stands up to the backlash. I haven't seen that kind of backbone from any of the other candidates from either party.


You need to read more progressive news sources and opinion writers because the progressive left does not in any way support Hillary. 
Just as there are degrees of conservatives so is it on the other side.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am not certain I would call it backbone to color an entire ethnicity with the kinds of slurs he threw at our neighbors South of the Rio Grande. Every group has members who bring shame to their families and fellows. But to have a negative that may apply to some, possibly very few, applied to the vast majority of a group who only want to better their lives and those of their children and do so in a law abiding manner is irresponsible.
> 
> Whether people like it or not, accept it or not, the world has shrunk to be one community of fellow humans. It is horrible the inhuman way some of our fellow travelers on this planet behave, the harm they bring, and the ongoing harm and destruction they promote.
> 
> ...


===
I agree - in answer to one of Solo's statements:

In my opinion - it isn't backbone -- it is arrogance of the worst order. He talks down everyone but himself - and he 
is a complete narcisist.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That might be true, but you are always ready and willing to throw a jab at every opportunity. I offer your last 3 words as proof.


The fact that you use my agreement as a weapon will make it definite that I won't acknowledge anything else I agree with. I thought there might be a possibility of a conversation. Once in awhile you appear to want one. But you don't tell those you are arguing with that I agree with you without an ulterior motive. We are not like those on the Right who don't dare to speak in any kind of agreement. Maybe that is why you never have acknowledged you agree with any of my view points. One sided is not working for me any more.

Life is too short to try, and be used. Yes once in awhile I have agreed - and have said so, you have never once done the same for me. so it is a good lesson learned. It is a shame though that you come across as nasty when sometimes I see a slight amount of light that tells me you aren't always nasty and that way down deep you agree with some of the things we say. I give you credit, but instead of discussing you use my posts. YOu give lots of shots too, I still have a habit of being too trusting, but for some reason I dislike the constant negativity -- but it is useless. We could never be friends with our past history, but if you say something I might have some agreement with I certainly don't plan on acknowledging it. You use it and don't reciprocate.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> And then there is Hillary and the way the left falls all over her, despite the fact they find her untrustworthy. Her untrustworthiness is increasing from poll to poll, yet people will vote for her regardless.
> 
> Trump most likely doesn't have a chance, (never say never) but at least he has the guts to own what he says and stands up to the backlash. I haven't seen that kind of backbone from any of the other candidates from either party.


soloweygirl
All Trump is showing is that he is truly stupid. He might get the message this time since it is effecting his income big time.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> The fact that you use my agreement as a weapon will make it definite that I won't acknowledge anything else I agree with. I thought there might be a possibility of a conversation. Once in awhile you appear to want one. But you don't tell those you are arguing with that I agree with you without an ulterior motive. We are not like those on the Right who don't dare to speak in any kind of agreement. Maybe that is why you never have acknowledged you agree with any of my view points. One sided is not working for me any more.
> 
> Life is too short to try, and be used. Yes once in awhile I have agreed - and have said so, you have never once done the same for me. so it is a good lesson learned. It is a shame though that you come across as nasty when sometimes I see a slight amount of light that tells me you aren't always nasty and that way down deep you agree with some of the things we say. I give you credit, but instead of discussing you use my posts. YOu give lots of shots too, I still have a habit of being too trusting, but for some reason I dislike the constant negativity -- but it is useless. We could never be friends with our past history, but if you say something I might have some agreement with I certainly don't plan on acknowledging it. You use it and don't reciprocate.


Knockout by Designer in One Round!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> All Trump is showing is that he is truly stupid. He might get the message this time since it is effecting his income big time.


Stupid and an egomaniac. Now THERE'S a truly caustic combination.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Stupid and an egomaniac. Now THERE'S a truly caustic combination.


Could you imagine him and Christie on the same ticket?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Could you imagine him and Christie on the same ticket?


Yes, but I don't like the visual.

I need some eye bleach...


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'll bet Wombat is yarn shopping today. Have you all seen the shawls she makes? Beautiful!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: (Bloody Avatar)! Sadly not Brat but sweet of you to say about the shawls! Have just finished another 'car coat' from the '60's in a strange coloured woolen yarn (supposed to be camel but is in fact either a pale oyster or dusky pink :shock: ). Have to sew it up then post it.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> She is a very good crafts person. I think she sews very well also. Anyone with a dress form has to be good.
> 
> How did this topic pop up?


Thanks Sloth! Dress form is nowhere near my size though! Handy for getting an idea about how something looks.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have a dress form. Actually I have 2. A child's and an adults. I have to use one to fit my clothes properly when I do sew for myself. I have a couple of long casual summer dresses to make and a couple of tops as soon as I finish Brynn's sundresses.


Your dress form is adjustable I take it? Must get one for myself. They do make life easier when sewing. You're a sewer too!!! Please show pic of your work, I'd love to see. :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Then you are probably as capable as Wombat or maybe 2 x as capable. Post a pic online and let us know the title.


1000 x capable I would suggest! Yes Brat, pictures please.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> And then there is Hillary and the way the left falls all over her, despite the fact they find her untrustworthy. Her untrustworthiness is increasing from poll to poll, yet people will vote for her regardless.
> 
> Trump most likely doesn't have a chance, (never say never) but at least he has the guts to own what he says and stands up to the backlash. I haven't seen that kind of backbone from any of the other candidates from either party.


Every politician is considered untrustworthy. I think Hilary Clinton demonstrated fine form by wanting the 'secret' emails exposed. And now that they are exposed, not a sign of espionage and intrigue!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Could you imagine him and Christie on the same ticket?


Oh dear, now I will have nightmares!.










Mind you, on thinking about it they would last about 2 weeks in office and the whole Government would explode!!! It would really need a backup!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> All Trump is showing is that he is truly stupid. He might get the message this time since it is effecting his income big time.


I think he is too arrogant - he will think he can get everyone back by a few lawsuits or by snapping his fingers. He is something. I just hope those on the Right see what a disaster it would for him to run. It would be like a carnival while he used the Convention to blow his own horn and what would happen if he took over. I can't believe anyone takes him seriously. I was at a meeting today and there were l0 of us and we started talking about what a disaster it would be.

Not one, some Conservatives and some liberals or Progressive could believe that they would ever take him seriously down there. My son phoned and asked me what I thought, I turned it around and asked him what he and his friends thought - he said he thinks that if they even run him for President it will show what 'idiots are in the Conservative government down there. He, by the say is Conservative, or has been up until now. He is seriously thinking of joining the many who vote for some other party (NDP) - I don't try to influence him at all. He was raised to think. We don't have the absolute unbelievable situation as the US.

I heard my first Political add on TV today. It was the Leader of the Liberal Party which is having a real problem now. He is the son of Pierre Trudeau who was one of our Prime Minister.

The election is in Oct. 3.5 months! Wouldn't you all love that? NO insults although disagreements and the election counted, finished and the Government in full working order less than two weeks after the election. I am so glad I visit there and don't have to be afraid of what some of these people like Trump might do to my country.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, but I don't like the visual.
> 
> I need some eye bleach...


Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.

Sorry, I have to make an urgent dash to the toilet because I suddenly feel violently ill after looking at that image.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Knockout by Designer in One Round!


Well, anyone with a brain knows Designer is a class act.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Could you imagine him and Christie on the same ticket?


Only if they give Charon his coin.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.
> 
> Sorry, I have to make an urgent dash to the toilet because I suddenly feel violently ill after looking at that image.


At least in the picture it is the index finger he is waving.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> At least in the picture it is the index finger he is waving.


He looks as though he's planning to stick it in his nostril. And now we all have to make urgent dashes.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Only if they give Charon his coin.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Except those two are takers, not givers. They're more likely to mug Charon, steal his boat, and set themselves up as the landlords of Hades.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.
> 
> Sorry, I have to make an urgent dash to the toilet because I suddenly feel violently ill after looking at that image.


Now you know how we Americans feel. What a picture!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Every politician is considered untrustworthy. I think Hilary Clinton demonstrated fine form by wanting the 'secret' emails exposed. And now that they are exposed, not a sign of espionage and intrigue!


Wombanomore
always give the Enemy a rope to hang himself with. Got to love it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.
> 
> EveMCooke
> Trumps' picture tells all about him. He is a very angry dude.
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

THE DONALD: Liar
He now is trying to convince Folks that he has real family values. He claims that two of is marriages failed because he worked too hard. Really? But then, yes he worked hard at leading a double Life.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I think he is too arrogant - he will think he can get everyone back by a few lawsuits or by snapping his fingers. He is something. I just hope those on the Right see what a disaster it would for him to run. It would be like a carnival while he used the Convention to blow his own horn and what would happen if he took over. I can't believe anyone takes him seriously. I was at a meeting today and there were l0 of us and we started talking about what a disaster it would be.
> 
> Not one, some Conservatives and some liberals or Progressive could believe that they would ever take him seriously down there. My son phoned and asked me what I thought, I turned it around and asked him what he and his friends thought - he said he thinks that if they even run him for President it will show what 'idiots are in the Conservative government down there. He, by the say is Conservative, or has been up until now. He is seriously thinking of joining the many who vote for some other party (NDP) - I don't try to influence him at all. He was raised to think. We don't have the absolute unbelievable situation as the US.
> 
> ...


I still can't get over the fact that the Canadian election is just a few months away and the political ads and campaigning have only just begun. Until very recently I wasn't aware of that fact that politics could be conducted in any fashion but American-style: a huge buildup lasting months and years, scads of $$, enough drama to fuel half a dozen soap operas, heated debates, smear campaigns, and a political paparazzi committed to digging up every bit of dirt on the candidates and their families. I have no idea how the American political scene has devolved into such a circus, but it's downright depressing when I think of how much money and energy is wasted. Hats off to our Canadians neighbors--you folks are really doing something right as far as the political choosing process goes.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.
> 
> Sorry, I have to make an urgent dash to the toilet because I suddenly feel violently ill after looking at that image.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.


Here's how Mexico sees him:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's how Mexico sees him:


Yes I saw that one and what they planned to do with it when it was finished. :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> He looks as though he's planning to stick it in his nostril. And now we all have to make urgent dashes.


Oooh, I should not have opened this thread right after lunch!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am not certain I would call it backbone to color an entire ethnicity with the kinds of slurs he threw at our neighbors South of the Rio Grande. Every group has members who bring shame to their families and fellows. But to have a negative that may apply to some, possibly very few, applied to the vast majority of a group who only want to better their lives and those of their children and do so in a law abiding manner is irresponsible.
> 
> Whether people like it or not, accept it or not, the world has shrunk to be one community of fellow humans. It is horrible the inhuman way some of our fellow travelers on this planet behave, the harm they bring, and the ongoing harm and destruction they promote.
> 
> ...


The reality is they are not doing it in a law abiding manner. They are here illegally and have decided to break our immigration laws before setting foot on American soil. Mexico won't put a stop to it because they know a portion of those crossing the border are people that have broken Mexican laws. America is a melting pot and will always welcome immigrants, but they need to respect our laws and our country before setting foot on our soil.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oooh, I should not have opened this thread right after lunch!


He lookd like "Dirty Grandpa. Pull my finger."


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> The fact that you use my agreement as a weapon will make it definite that I won't acknowledge anything else I agree with. I thought there might be a possibility of a conversation. Once in awhile you appear to want one. But you don't tell those you are arguing with that I agree with you without an ulterior motive. We are not like those on the Right who don't dare to speak in any kind of agreement. Maybe that is why you never have acknowledged you agree with any of my view points. One sided is not working for me any more.
> 
> Life is too short to try, and be used. Yes once in awhile I have agreed - and have said so, you have never once done the same for me. so it is a good lesson learned. It is a shame though that you come across as nasty when sometimes I see a slight amount of light that tells me you aren't always nasty and that way down deep you agree with some of the things we say. I give you credit, but instead of discussing you use my posts. YOu give lots of shots too, I still have a habit of being too trusting, but for some reason I dislike the constant negativity -- but it is useless. We could never be friends with our past history, but if you say something I might have some agreement with I certainly don't plan on acknowledging it. You use it and don't reciprocate.


Give it a rest Designer. I was being sarcastic with Bratty, nothing more. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill go right ahead. I'm sure you'll get the attention you are craving by doing so.

To edit, I see the attention has already started. So predictable.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Your dress form is adjustable I take it? Must get one for myself. They do make life easier when sewing. You're a sewer too!!! Please show pic of your work, I'd love to see. :-D


I am making sundresses for my GD right now. Would you like a pic of the dress form? Yes, it is adjustable. Height, bust , waist, hips etc.
I love to sew, Wombat. I just got an embroidery machine, so I can add little 
embellishments on Brynn's clothes. I will try and scan some pics for you.
DH bought a new scanner/copier and I haven't figured it out yetI haven't sewn for myself in years. I like the long sun dresses that are in the stores this year, but can't stand polyester. I will be sewing mine in cotton.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Give it a rest Designer. I was being sarcastic with Bratty, nothing more. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill go right ahead. I'm sure you'll get the attention you are craving by doing so.


Aww, showing your sweet side again? You do have a sweet side?? Maybe??

Why don't you lay off Designer. She has done more positive work for KP than a whole bunch of her detractors together could claim, if they can claim any positive interactions on threads or workshops. It is getting to be a tired retread of ongoing whining.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Give it a rest Designer. I was being sarcastic with Bratty, nothing more. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill go right ahead. I'm sure you'll get the attention you are craving by doing so.
> 
> To edit, I see the attention has already started. So predictable.


You were the one who brought up that I 'praised' you in order to argue with Patty. That is my point. I stand by what I said. YOU give it a rest. I won't agree publicy with you again. Lesson learned -- It is sad - not for me but for you.

So don't quote me and I won't talk back, OKAY???


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Give it a rest Designer. I was being sarcastic with Bratty, nothing more. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill go right ahead. I'm sure you'll get the attention you are craving by doing so.
> 
> To edit, I see the attention has already started. So predictable.


I have a lot of friends here who understand exactly where I am coming from. They know me you don't. You never will.Yes it is very very predictable. Just as I don't care for my agreement with one of your posts used for sarcasm against one of my friends.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Give it a rest Designer. I was being sarcastic with Bratty, nothing more. You want to make a mountain out of a molehill go right ahead. I'm sure you'll get the attention you are craving by doing so.
> 
> To edit, I see the attention has already started. So predictable.


Shirley has a lot of friends here. The "attention" as you call it is her friends having her back. Friends do that for each other, solo.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen, please be upstanding for the President of the United States of America.
> 
> Sorry, I have to make an urgent dash to the toilet because I suddenly feel violently ill after looking at that image.


OH I thought that was *his* problem. He obviously is having problems - could it be the same thing??

He is so crude and so impressed with his own importance. If he runs (ye Gods no!!)
I would imagine that he wouldn't get one vote from the Hispanics. It might be a good thing for the Left?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Well, anyone with a brain knows Designer is a class act.










Thankyou I always know I have friends here. this whole thing is so stupid. Oh well, never again.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Shirley has a lot of friends here. The "attention" as you call it is her friends having her back. Friends do that for each other, solo.


You all just make my point for me. Job well done.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You all just make my point for me. Job well done.


So you agree that Shirley has friends who will always be there for her and that her posts are not just for attention. Perfect!
No more needs to be said. :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You all just make my point for me. Job well done.


Good, glad you are astute enough to realize that Shirley is a worthy friend and that she has loyal friends here. She is a fine lady who does not have to bribe people to be her friends. We just gravitate to her for her wisdom, knowledge and just plain niceness.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I still can't get over the fact that the Canadian election is just a few months away and the political ads and campaigning have only just begun. Until very recently I wasn't aware of that fact that politics could be conducted in any fashion but American-style: a huge buildup lasting months and years, scads of $$, enough drama to fuel half a dozen soap operas, heated debates, smear campaigns, and a political paparazzi committed to digging up every bit of dirt on the candidates and their families. I have no idea how the American political scene has devolved into such a circus, but it's downright depressing when I think of how much money and energy is wasted. Hats off to our Canadians neighbors--you folks are really doing something right as far as the political choosing process goes.


I

I was foolish enough to think that although there were some differences, our systems were somewhat the same. I can't believe the differences now that I have been on these threads. It is so easy if people use a system that is simple and straightforward and everyone treats their country with respect. We seem to want straightforward, not twisted, and difficult - thanks be.

I am not crowing - but I guess I am boasting in a way.

I am so proud of my country, more and more. 
We have lots of problems. eg. there have been 5 bomb threats on West Jet in this past week, it is a worry as my daughter is a flight attendant with them. There are weirdos everywhere I guess. They don't think now that it is a terrorist, but I worry that someone foolish will see what is happening and think, wow, there is something I can do to catch their attention. Or a terrorist will take it and go forward. I know they are really watching flights now.

People are so worrisome sometimes.

We don't have the history of slavery and problems with those who are still fighting a battle which was won by our country years ago. I am so thankful for that.

In many other ways we are very much the same as your country. I sure am glad we live a life of being sensible, and as some Americans have said, boring. I don't find it boring, I find it comfortable, sure, and enjoyable.

I am sure there are those at home who are not on the same page. These are my feelings and they are welcome to express theirs. I just do not see the attitudes and unkindness here and I hope I never will.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Good, glad you are astute enough to realize that Shirley is a worthy friend and that she has loyal friends here. She is a fine lady who does not have to bribe people to be her friends. We just gravitate to her for her wisdom, knowledge and just plain niceness.


 I am proud and honoured to call Shirley a friend. She is a true Christian. She is kind, caring and compassionate. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am proud and honoured to call Shirley a friend. She is a true Christian. She is kind, caring and compassionate. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


You guys are making me choke up. I thank you for being such good friends. I value this thread and others and I value each and every one of you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The reality is they are not doing it in a law abiding manner. They are here illegally and have decided to break our immigration laws before setting foot on American soil. Mexico won't put a stop to it because they know a portion of those crossing the border are people that have broken Mexican laws. America is a melting pot and will always welcome immigrants, but they need to respect our laws and our country before setting foot on our soil.


================================
Correction:!! he is painting all hispanics with the same brush/ Not once has he even discussed that he is not talking about ALL hispanics - he is insulting each and every one. he just admitted that 'Maybe ---- there might be a few nice ones. What an insult. I would bet that the majority of Hispanics are nicer, kinder and treat others better than he does with his little finger. The rest of him is nasty and he is proud of it. Great President for you to chose. Just to get even with Obama.

I have less and less appreciation of anyone who defends what he is said. He is starting up the same 
hogwash that has been carried on since the slaves were freed.

"THESE PEOPLE ARE NO GOOD,they are less than I am. They are 2nd class citizens". He doesn't recognize any of the positives. I have absolutely no use for him or respect for him. He is too stupid to even realize what people around the world think of him, let alone any thinking American. He can, 
by himself start a whole new racist idea - and it really is a shame that anyone will even consider him as a thinking mind.

He uses his money as a cushion which saves him from being called out for what he says. He uses fear of reprisal as a weapon and is proud of it.

He has no personal morals nor does he have business 
morals. He thrives on attention and will use any methods of getting more attention.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I
> 
> I was foolish enough to think that although there were some differences, our systems were somewhat the same. I can't believe the differences now that I have been on these threads. It is so easy if people use a system that is simple and straightforward and everyone treats their country with respect. We seem to want straightforward, not twisted, and difficult - thanks be.
> 
> ...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Dear Heart, Tell us what you *really* think.

I am sure all thinking, good people are appalled by that man. I am equally sure that good sense will prevail and the republicans will choose somebody who is more astute as to what the country needs as their candidate. With a big IF; if there is such a person affiliated with the republican party who would choose to run as their contender in the quest for the presidency.

Somebody from one of the parliamentarian countries made a wise comment regarding that system as better representing the varied wills of the citizenry. It is quite likely that the founding fathers, in distancing themselves from Britain, wanted as different a representative government as possible.

The US form of government works when leaders of the parties are people of good will who are willing to listen to their opponents and make the compromises needed to run the country in a way that serves the people well.

But when the party leaders are self seeking and the public has limited choices of whom to vote for, the country is in trouble. Some of the things some of the candidates have said make me think we will have mad men trying to run the country. And reading the track records of some of them we need to wonder about their marginally criminal behavior and fiscal insanity. I hope sanity will prevail.



Designer1234 said:


> ================================
> Correction:!! he is painting all hispanics with the same brush/ Not once has he even discussed that he is not talking about ALL hispanics - he is insulting each and every one. he just admitted that 'Maybe ---- there might be a few nice ones. What an insult. I would bet that the majority of Hispanics are nicer, kinder and treat others better than he does with his little finger. The rest of him is nasty and he is proud of it. Great President for you to chose. Just to get even with Obama.
> 
> I have less and less appreciation of anyone who defends what he is said. He is starting up the same
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> Except those two are takers, not givers. They're more likely to mug Charon, steal his boat, and set themselves up as the landlords of Hades.


I thought that was their current employment.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I thought that was their current employment.


Leona is waiting to greet them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Dear Heart, Tell us what you *really* think.
> 
> I am sure all thinking, good people are appalled by that man. I am equally sure that good sense will prevail and the republicans will choose somebody who is more astute as to what the country needs as their candidate. With a big IF; if there is such a person affiliated with the republican party who would choose to run as their contender in the quest for the presidency.
> 
> ...


=================

Marilyn -- I likely shouldn't have expressed my opinion quite so sharply. I have so much respect for what the US has done for so many people in the world. It is just that he is so opposite of a Caring man who cares for anyone but himself.

The world is in a recession right now that is a fact.We are definitely being affected - however someone as narrow, arrogant and uncaring can only do harm to America. that is how I feel. The Job of President is the hardest job in the world and putting a person like him in or carrying on the hate toward the president that has been shown this past few years 
can do nothing but negative things for your wonderful country. my opinion only.

Any way, I won't apologize or take back what I have written.I agree with your statement below, l00%.

"The US form of government works when leaders of the parties are people of good will who are willing to listen to their opponents and make the compromises needed to run the country in a way that serves the people well.""


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Stupid and an egomaniac. Now THERE'S a truly caustic combination.


DGreen
a News Source is fact checking re. Mexican Immigrants and the results show that the Immigrants (legal and illegal) are far from being a burden or even outcasts as The Donald likes to describe them. The source just wants to underline how much of a Liar Donald is.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Dear Heart, Tell us what you *really* think.
> 
> I am sure all thinking, good people are appalled by that man. I am equally sure that good sense will prevail and the republicans will choose somebody who is more astute as to what the country needs as their candidate. With a big IF; if there is such a person affiliated with the republican party who would choose to run as their contender in the quest for the presidency.
> 
> ...


MarilynKnits
he will be in need of something once his circus performance comes to an end. He will no longer be able to sell his name. His immorality is toxic. It is a pleasure to see the "Limbaugh" as well as the "Trump" sinking.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am making sundresses for my GD right now. Would you like a pic of the dress form? Yes, it is adjustable. Height, bust , waist, hips etc.
> I love to sew, Wombat. I just got an embroidery machine, so I can add little
> embellishments on Brynn's clothes. I will try and scan some pics for you.
> DH bought a new scanner/copier and I haven't figured it out yetI haven't sewn for myself in years. I like the long sun dresses that are in the stores this year, but can't stand polyester. I will be sewing mine in cotton.


Yes please Brat, I'd appreciate seeing a pic of your adjustable dress form. Thank you for that! I love sewing too. I've been looking around for one of those cardboard cutting tables in the last 24 hours, I'm sick of cutting out on the floor. The embroidery machine will open all doors to you, particularly for sewing for Brynn! I can't wait to see what you do! Wonder if admin will smack us for talking about sewing on chit/chat? :shock:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> he will be in need of something once his circus performance comes to an end. He will no longer be able to sell his name. His immorality is toxic. It is a pleasure to see the "Limbaugh" as well as the "Trump" sinking.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> he will be in need of something once his circus performance comes to an end. He will no longer be able to sell his name. His immorality is toxic. It is a pleasure to see the "Limbaugh" as well as the "Trump" sinking.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Good one Huck!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

*I have wished a Great 4th of July on a couple of threads, but I don't want to miss wishing all of you a

WONDERFUL JULY 4TH WEEKEND! I hope you all have a nice time, and celebration.-------------*


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well our election is starting to warm up! All three leaders of the main Parties, are at the Calgary Stampede in full cowboy dress and are shaking hands with as many people as they can. I missed watching the Parade, darn it but I imagine all three, were in the Parade. 

It will warm up pretty quickly from here on. PM. Stephen Harper (Progressive Conservative) Tom Mulcair - (New Democratic party), and 
Justin Trudeau,( Liberal Party}.

One of them will be Prime Minister. 

They will start traveling around, speaking at different get togethers and 
doing much what those who run will do down there.

All of those who will run for Members of Parliament (MPs) will be doing the same thing all over Canada in each of the 'Ridings'. The election will be held, people will vote in every riding. The totals for each riding will be added and the number of votes added to the Federal total for each party. The Party that wins the most votes throughout all the ridings will win. The PC's have the majority vote now, but many of us feel there is a possibility although not an absolute propability that the New Democrats might make up the next Government.

Alberta had their Provincial election recently and it was a complete turn over. After 40 years (Progressive Conservative) the NDP won a huge majority and the PC's came third. It was absolutely unbelievable as far as everyone was concerned, especially the Conservatives.

That is why we are watching this election very closely. I personally would not be surprised if NDP wins- I hope they do. We shall just have to wait until October to see. If so it will be really something. I do think even if they don't win, they could have a minority Government with either the PC's or NDP having the most members but not enough for a majority. 

There is more interest in this election than there has been for years.

I will keep you up to date if you are interested./ Shirley


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> The reality is they are not doing it in a law abiding manner. They are here illegally and have decided to break our immigration laws before setting foot on American soil. Mexico won't put a stop to it because they know a portion of those crossing the border are people that have broken Mexican laws. America is a melting pot and will always welcome immigrants, but they need to respect our laws and our country before setting foot on our soil.


How much are you willing to bet that the companies Trump owns employ many, many Mexicans? They're the workers who change the beds, do the laundry, clean the pool, take care of the landscaping and cook the meals. The Ridiculous Hairpiece insulted a lot of people who work for him and he didn't stick to immigration status - he was painting with a very broad brush. Illegals won't be voting for him because they can't, but I'll bet neither will their relatives and fellow countrymen. He's made his attitude toward ALL Mexicans very clear.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's how Mexico sees him:


Poor Purl
The sales in Mexico of Pinata's of Trump are going through the roof. N i c e!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> You guys are making me choke up. I thank you for being such good friends. I value this thread and others and I value each and every one of you.


Designer1234
Shirley you are a real Jewel. Hugs, Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HAPPY 4TH EVERYONE.

May this year bring total equality to everybody.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> The sales in Mexico of Pinata's of Trump are going through the roof. N i c e!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Shirley you are a real Jewel. Hugs, Huck


Thanks Huck! I appreciate all of you - you are caring and kind.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Shirley has a lot of friends here. The "attention" as you call it is her friends having her back. Friends do that for each other, solo.


I've gotten quite an eye full of your brand of "friendship" over the last few years. I've seen your group attack each other over a difference of opinion during one of your discussions. I've also read some extremely disgusting posts from members of your group to those they consider friends and naturally to those that aren't. I've also read the excuses you make to and for each other for your behavior in an attempt to justify it. All in all, I'm extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> So you agree that Shirley has friends who will always be there for her and that her posts are not just for attention. Perfect!
> No more needs to be said. :thumbup:


Not by a long shot. Twist it any way you want, it's still not the truth. I'll repeat what I said in another post, I am extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> How much are you willing to bet that the companies Trump owns employ many, many Mexicans? They're the workers who change the beds, do the laundry, clean the pool, take care of the landscaping and cook the meals. The Ridiculous Hairpiece insulted a lot of people who work for him and he didn't stick to immigration status - he was painting with a very broad brush. Illegals won't be voting for him because they can't, but I'll bet neither will their relatives and fellow countrymen. He's made his attitude toward ALL Mexicans very clear.


I'm sure that Trump's hotels employ many illegals. No matter if his hotels attempted to verify them, many have false papers so what good would it really do? How many other businesses across the country employ illegals? Too many. I wasn't talking about Trump and who he employs. I was talking about the kind of immigrants they are. Ones that decide to break our laws even before they set foot on our soil. Yes they have their problems and various reasons for wanting to come to America, but so do all the potential immigrants that are waiting patiently in their own countries until their applications are processed. The latter are the immigrants that I prefer as they care about this country and plan to make it their own.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm sure that Trump's hotels employ many illegals. No matter if his hotels attempted to verify them, many have false papers so what good would it really do? How many other businesses across the country employ illegals? Too many. I wasn't talking about Trump and who he employs. I was talking about the kind of immigrants they are. Ones that decide to break our laws even before they set foot on our soil. Yes they have their problems and various reasons for wanting to come to America, but so do all the potential immigrants that are waiting patiently in their own countries until their applications are processed. The latter are the immigrants that I prefer as they care about this country and plan to make it their own.


Here is a very good answer for you:

We can tell people to wait their turn in line, but, for example, for a Mexican (or a Guatemalan, a Filipino, a Pole, or folks from many other countries) who does not have a college degree and has no close relatives who are U.S. citizens or green card-holders, there is almost certainly no line for them to wait in: without reform to the legal system, they will not be able to migrate the legal way to the U.S., not if they wait ten years, not if they wait fifty years. But if they manage to come unlawfullyand historically we have not made it so difficult to do so, though our borders are much more secure now than they have ever beenthey will almost certainly find workbecause even in a time of high unemployment, there are certain jobs that most Americans have not proven willing to do. For individuals living in poverty, desperate to support their families, that has been an attractive option. Everyone would prefer to pay a reasonable fee and be granted a visa, but that has not been an option for most of those presently here unlawfully. That, in short, is how we got into this mess, and why so many immigrantsmost of them family-oriented peoplehave ended up undocumented in the shadows of our society.

More at http://g92.org/find-answers/process/


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I've gotten quite an eye full of your brand of "friendship" over the last few years. I've seen your group attack each other over a difference of opinion during one of your discussions. I've also read some extremely disgusting posts from members of your group to those they consider friends and naturally to those that aren't. I've also read the excuses you make to and for each other for your behavior in an attempt to justify it. All in all, I'm extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


-----------
Then why don 't you just ignore us? - rather than keep track of what we are saying and who we are saying it to. You must find us interesting as you come here and stir just about every day. Does it give you your jollies?? just wondering.

We are close enough friends that we don't HAVE to agree all the time. We are not sheep. We have each others' backs and always will. You have no idea what you are talking about. There is no way you would fit into our group. Stick with D and P. You seem to have friends there -- good for you.

There is one answer Solo - avoid us - it would be a gift to yourself and us. But then that's not going to happen as you love to stir and insult us and our feelings. YOu also find it impossible to avoid discussing what we say on these threads so enjoy it if you must. You must have a shortage of friends to discuss your beliefs with as you spend all your time here. Why don't you start a thread of your own with like minded people? just a thought.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Solo wrote:

I'm sure that Trump's hotels employ many illegals. No matter if his hotels attempted to verify them, many have false papers so what good would it really do? How many other businesses across the country employ illegals? Too many. I wasn't talking about Trump and who he employs. "
========================
It is interesting to me that the man who has insulted all hispanics and who is absolutely insulting to everyone who dares disagree with him. The man who is so arrogant he thinks he can be master of the world is still employing those very same hispanics that he is using for his negative campaign. That is how arrogant he is. 

I am hoping that many many people stop using his hotels, and anything to do with him. I know people up here who have said they will never, ever
stay in his hotels, play golf at his golf courses and avoid anything that has his name, like the plague. He might find it rather interesting not to be able to bully people without having to pay. I would think a large number of Americans will avoid anything to do with him as if it was the plague. 

jMO.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not by a long shot. Twist it any way you want, it's still not the truth. I'll repeat what I said in another post, I am extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


osay uwhay


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I've gotten quite an eye full of your brand of "friendship" over the last few years. I've seen your group attack each other over a difference of opinion during one of your discussions. I've also read some extremely disgusting posts from members of your group to those they consider friends and naturally to those that aren't. I've also read the excuses you make to and for each other for your behavior in an attempt to justify it. All in all, I'm extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


not to worry- you never will.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Here is a very good answer for you:
> 
> We can tell people to wait their turn in line, but, for example, for a Mexican (or a Guatemalan, a Filipino, a Pole, or folks from many other countries) who does not have a college degree and has no close relatives who are U.S. citizens or green card-holders, there is almost certainly no line for them to wait in: without reform to the legal system, they will not be able to migrate the legal way to the U.S., not if they wait ten years, not if they wait fifty years. But if they manage to come unlawfullyand historically we have not made it so difficult to do so, though our borders are much more secure now than they have ever beenthey will almost certainly find workbecause even in a time of high unemployment, there are certain jobs that most Americans have not proven willing to do. For individuals living in poverty, desperate to support their families, that has been an attractive option. Everyone would prefer to pay a reasonable fee and be granted a visa, but that has not been an option for most of those presently here unlawfully. That, in short, is how we got into this mess, and why so many immigrantsmost of them family-oriented peoplehave ended up undocumented in the shadows of our society.
> 
> More at http://g92.org/find-answers/process/


Illegal immigration is a bugaboo of mine and one of the few "progressive" things I don't go for. I'm all for immigration--if you come here legally, welcome! But no on illegals, sorry. And I've never bought into the "jobs Americans won't do" premise. Because those are jobs that were always performed by Americans. They just wouldn't work as cheaply as illegals will.

But while I'm against illegal immigration, I certainly don't subscribe to the belief that all of them must be robbers, rapists and murderers.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Illegal immigration is a bugaboo of mine and one of the few "progressive" things I don't go for. I'm all for immigration--if you come here legally, welcome! But no on illegals, sorry. And I've never bought into the "jobs Americans won't do" premise. Because those are jobs that were always performed by Americans. They just wouldn't work as cheaply as illegals will.
> 
> But while I'm against illegal immigration, I certainly don't subscribe to the belief that all of them must be robbers, rapists and murderers.


I agree with you. It was his blanket statement. It does sound as if illegal immigration is a big problem, but I take issue with Trumps statements. Some how, for whatever reason, immigrants seem to be able to enter across borders to find work. I agree that illegal entry should be stopped but Trump's way is so far from any chance of success. He also has antagonized many many people who might have voted GOP -but then that is my take on things.

It would be interesting to have a discussion about how the borders can be contained in a doable way. It sounds as if it is easy to cross into the States which should not be the case.

I have no idea of what it would entail, or how you would deal with those who are here and have been here for ages.

I would find it interesting as the Canadian American border is under very strict control by both countries since 9/11. Prior to that it was a free border we didn't even have to have our 
passports. I don't remember hearing of any problems.

Is the South American problem due to the type of land on the border?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

This is an informative site on the issue of immegration. 
weareoneamerica.org. There is a fact sheet on Root causes of Migration.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm sure that Trump's hotels employ many illegals. No matter if his hotels attempted to verify them, many have false papers so what good would it really do? How many other businesses across the country employ illegals? Too many. I wasn't talking about Trump and who he employs. I was talking about the kind of immigrants they are. Ones that decide to break our laws even before they set foot on our soil. Yes they have their problems and various reasons for wanting to come to America, but so do all the potential immigrants that are waiting patiently in their own countries until their applications are processed. The latter are the immigrants that I prefer as they care about this country and plan to make it their own.


Uh-huh. Spare me the self-righteousness, please. This country was settled by folks who sought to improve their circumstances by ripping off the Native Americans--stealing their land, making and breaking treaties with them, shoving them onto reservations where, to this day, many tribes can't keep body and soul together.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I've gotten quite an eye full of your brand of "friendship" over the last few years. I've seen your group attack each other over a difference of opinion during one of your discussions. I've also read some extremely disgusting posts from members of your group to those they consider friends and naturally to those that aren't. I've also read the excuses you make to and for each other for your behavior in an attempt to justify it. All in all, I'm extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


soloweygirl
why are you trying so hard to be part of our group?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not by a long shot. Twist it any way you want, it's still not the truth. I'll repeat what I said in another post, I am extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


Sweetie, it certainly works both ways. Our group can feel free to speak openly to one another, disagree, and just be comfy friends without having to measure our words and worry about image. We are not afraid to speak our minds and do not have a resident queen bee calling the shots. With friends like some of the characters who will remain nameless I have encountered, who needs enemies?

If you find us so unpleasant, why do you bother to come visit, anyway? Just to snipe?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Saw on the news tonight that NASCAR is not using a Trump resort for their big event as previously planned. That is where to hit bigots; in their wallets.



Designer1234 said:


> Solo wrote:
> 
> I'm sure that Trump's hotels employ many illegals. No matter if his hotels attempted to verify them, many have false papers so what good would it really do? How many other businesses across the country employ illegals? Too many. I wasn't talking about Trump and who he employs. "
> ========================
> ...


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Saw on the news tonight that NASCAR is not using a Trump resort for their big event as previously planned. That is where to hit bigots; in their wallets.


Yea NASCAR!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you. It was his blanket statement. It does sound as if illegal immigration is a big problem, but I take issue with Trumps statements. Some how, for whatever reason, immigrants seem to be able to enter across borders to find work. I agree that illegal entry should be stopped but Trump's way is so far from any chance of success. He also has antagonized many many people who might have voted GOP -but then that is my take on things.
> 
> It would be interesting to have a discussion about how the borders can be contained in a doable way. It sounds as if it is easy to cross into the States which should not be the case.
> 
> ...


There was a time when the US had a "guest worker" program and many Mexicans poured over the border to find work and opportunities not available in Mexico. It worked out well, because the US economy had workers to do what its citizens did not want to do and the workers could move with relative ease back and forth across the border. They could see their families and didn't have to live in the shadows.

That ended in 1964.

But the demand for low-skilled workers and for workers who would actually do "stoop labor" did not. The demand for people to clean the hotels, do the backbreaking work of caring for our elderly in nursing homes, to cook the food and do the dishes didn't go away. It has been proven time and time again that Americans do not want that work, are not physically capable of it, or don't have the specific skills (low level, but still important) necessary to harvest our crops.

The plight of the illegal worker is truly terrible. I'm not talking about the drug dealers (thanks to the war on drugs they are making a fortune and bringing crime to the US) or the fugitives. I'm talking about the vast majority of illegals who come here looking for work. They often pay social security on forged documents - that money goes into the Social Security fund to the tune of billions of dollars and they get nothing for it - but the system benefits. They often are exploited horribly because unscrupulous businesses know they can steal their wages and keep them in slave-like conditions because they have no legal status and are afraid to go to the police. They can't go home to see their families because of the difficulty in returning to the job that puts food on the table. One of the biggest sources of income for all of Mexico is the money sent home by illegals in the US. It keeps the economy of Mexico afloat so we might even look at it as foreign aid - THAT THE MEXICANS WORK FOR. If the Mexican economy collapsed you would really see people pouring over the border. It's a delicate balance in ways.

Then there are the coyoyes, the human traffickers who often escort people over the border with promises to transport them to cities in the north. Then they dump them in the desert to die. And die they do. Or leave them in the back of semi truck to starve and suffocate. This happens and no one deserves to die that way - just for trying to make a better life. Renewal of a guest worker program would help them and us.

People who take such risks are desperate for work.

I have a first-hand experience with this. I worked for the bus system in Tempe and it came to light that one of the women who cleaned busses was illegal and had been subject to REPEATED RAPES by her supervisor as he held the threat of deportation over her head. She finally came forward and was deported. The supervisor? He got a promotion - presumably because he then would not be in a position to supervise the bus cleaners. The company did not know she was illegal because she had forged documents, but the supervisor had found out through the grapevine and took advantage. It happens all the time.

If the US deported every illegal immigrant our economy would collapse. We would have food shortages. We would have the elderly in nursing homes without care and possibly dying. Be careful what you ask for, people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I've gotten quite an eye full of your brand of "friendship" over the last few years. I've seen your group attack each other over a difference of opinion during one of your discussions. I've also read some extremely disgusting posts from members of your group to those they consider friends and naturally to those that aren't. I've also read the excuses you make to and for each other for your behavior in an attempt to justify it. All in all, I'm extremely thankful that I don't have "friends" like you.


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You see things you don't like because you've decided beforehand you're not going to like them.

The most disgusting things I've seen are messages like the following (with names and identifiable material deleted):

_You are truly a miserable person aren't you <name deleted>? I'll remind you once again since you seem to not have any working brain cells in your head, I made a post outlining <identifying information deleted>.

Immediately after your second post responding to my post you started in with your personal obnoxious insults and trashing and bashing. Here you are continuing with your disgusting words.

I have no idea how you and your Lib gang posting on this thread even survive; you need a heart and brain to be human last I heard, and I see none here.

Is it any wonder why your world is so miserable for you and your liberal friends posting here? Trashing me BECAUSE I wrote a post outlining <identifying information deleted>.

Liberals are supposed to be open minded, tolerant of differing ideas, progressive in their thinking and caring for all others.

My posts offered none of my opinions, I repeated the facts as broadcast by professional journalists. So, you all went on a rampage insulting the facts but made it personal.

The Libs here are nothing but hate-filled dolts wallowing in their misery and self-pity while insulting ANYONE who crosses their path who posts educated, informed, interesting, fun or intelligent discussion. The Lib gang here not only disgraces itself, it is a blight to your personal integrity, character and political party.

Since my post a few days ago, there has been nothing but sick and vile insults totaling probably over one hundred posts by now. You all LIVE to insult.

I hope you all are proud of your filth and vitriol - you all deserve each other in your snake pit, so I hope you'll enjoy yourselves together.

Life is good. You and your Liberal gang have missed it all._

Nice, isn't it? You and your friends may think you're so good to each other, but that's because some of you write to us in PMs, afraid they'd be ostracized if the rest of you found out.

I don't know what "disgusting" messages you've seen, but the parties involved were able to work things out between themselves without your advice.

So thanks for stopping by to teach us how to behave. I'd rather be insulted by my friends and ignored by your friends than loved to death by your friends and ignored by mine.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'd rather be insulted by my friends and ignored by your friends than loved to death by your friends and ignored by mine.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There was a time when the US had a "guest worker" program and many Mexicans poured over the border to find work and opportunities not available in Mexico. It worked out well, because the US economy had workers to do what its citizens did not want to do and the workers could move with relative ease back and forth across the border. They could see their families and didn't have to live in the shadows.
> 
> That ended in 1964.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. Expecting the poor living miserably in other countries to wait around for our "system" to invite them in is absurd. People who are desperate enough to take the chance of coming over, where they might be locked up for years and then deported, maybe deserve being taken seriously.

Anne Frank's father spent several years trying to get visas for his family, doing it the legal way, and we know how that ended.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Would it be possible for KPers on this thread to discuss the contributing factors that cause many people to cross numerous boundary lines to come to the US? Our government (both parties) has enacted policies that have had disastrous economic and cultural effects on Mexico, Guatemala, and other Central American countries. We have created conditions that support the disgustingly lethal drug trade that robs Mexican citizens of a peaceful life in their communities. It is not a liberal vs conservative issue, it is an issue of our combined support of corporations that go into Mexico and Central America for cheap labor and mass export of cheaper food such as corn that is no longer grown in Mexico for Mexican consumption.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Would it be possible for KPers on this thread to discuss the contributing factors that cause many people to cross numerous boundary lines to come to the US? Our government (both parties) has enacted policies that have had disastrous economic and cultural effects on Mexico, Guatemala, and other Central American countries. We have created conditions that support the disgustingly lethal drug trade that robs Mexican citizens of a peaceful life in their communities. It is not a liberal vs conservative issue, it is an issue of our combined support of corporations that go into Mexico and Central America for cheap labor and mass export of cheaper food such as corn that is no longer grown in Mexico for Mexican consumption.


I am not familiar enough with the trade agreements and their impact on our neighbors to the south to offer much on that, but the war on drugs must be abandoned. That won't change or rectify the disaster it has created but it would be a start.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


YEAH!!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I am not familiar enough with the trade agreements and their impact on our neighbors to the south to offer much on that, but the war on drugs must be abandoned. That won't change or rectify the disaster it has created but it would be a start.


Begin by perusing the site I mentioned earlier to day and the research other sites on subject of NAFTA and CAFTA you will be amazed.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Begin by perusing the site I mentioned earlier to day and the research other sites on subject of NAFTA and CAFTA you will be amazed.


Not sure I want another topic to obsess about! I'm already consumed with overturning citizens united and outlawing fracking and exposing ALEC and the worldwide horror of female genital mutilation, and outlawing lobbying and on and on and on. This isn't wanting to put my head in the sand - I'll leave it to others to fight those ills - I have plenty on my plate. Sort of spreading the burden around. But please, tell us more.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Uh-huh. Spare me the self-righteousness, please. This country was settled by folks who sought to improve their circumstances by ripping off the Native Americans--stealing their land, making and breaking treaties with them, shoving them onto reservations where, to this day, many tribes can't keep body and soul together.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

VuDuLi said:


> Well, consider me a new friend who loves what you have to say and how you say it, so I can't help but luv ya too!


Greetings friend. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Beautifully expressed. Thanks Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You see things you don't like because you've decided beforehand you're not going to like them.
> 
> The most disgusting things I've seen are messages like the following (with names and identifiable material deleted):
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for this. Expecting the poor living miserably in other countries to wait around for our "system" to invite them in is absurd. People who are desperate enough to take the chance of coming over, where they might be locked up for years and then deported, maybe deserve being taken seriously.
> 
> Anne Frank's father spent several years trying to get visas for his family, doing it the legal way, and we know how that ended.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: IMHO There are some things you just don't wait in line.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO you're wise to pick your battles. If we all contribute as we can I think we can make the world a better place.



DGreen said:


> Not sure I want another topic to obsess about! I'm already consumed with overturning citizens united and outlawing fracking and exposing ALEC and the worldwide horror of female genital mutilation, and outlawing lobbying and on and on and on. This isn't wanting to put my head in the sand - I'll leave it to others to fight those ills - I have plenty on my plate. Sort of spreading the burden around. But please, tell us more.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome to the club.



VuDuLi said:


> Well, consider me a new friend who loves what you have to say and how you say it, so I can't help but luv ya too!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> - - - - So thanks for stopping by to teach us how to behave. *I'd rather be insulted by my friends and ignored by your friends* than loved to death by your friends and ignored by mine.


And to know that our group of friends are joined because of our mutual concern for the humanity of others as well as ourselves. And to be able to *trust* our friends and not keep looking over our shoulders to see whether we are the next target of their disdain or vitriol because we many have said something to offend a self proclaimed queen.

It is so much easier to be decent and kind and look for the best in people. It seems to bring out the best in ourselves.

Then someone comes along spewing ugliness and hatred, apparently deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting people who do not acquiesce to that person's need for self aggrandizement. Can't really "win". If one responds or rebukes it incites the attacker to escalate. If one ignores the attacker sees it as a sign of weakness of purpose. It is like a pit bull terrier, a lovely nice dog when it gets its way but vicious if it feels threatened, whether there is a real threat or not.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for this. Expecting the poor living miserably in other countries to wait around for our "system" to invite them in is absurd. People who are desperate enough to take the chance of coming over, where they might be locked up for years and then deported, maybe deserve being taken seriously.
> 
> Anne Frank's father spent several years trying to get visas for his family, doing it the legal way, and we know how that ended.


We also have to remember that the original European settlers, ancestors of DAR and SAR members, were either invaders or what could be classified by today's standards as illegal aliens. Today it is a "we got ours so everybody else go away" perspective.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> And to know that our group of friends are joined because of our mutual concern for the humanity of others as well as ourselves. And to be able to *trust* our friends and not keep looking over our shoulders to see whether we are the next target of their disdain or vitriol because we many have said something to offend a self proclaimed queen.
> 
> It is so much easier to be decent and kind and look for the best in people. It seems to bring out the best in ourselves.
> 
> Then someone comes along spewing ugliness and hatred, apparently deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting people who do not acquiesce to that person's need for self aggrandizement. Can't really "win". If one responds or rebukes it incites the attacker to escalate. If one ignores the attacker sees it as a sign of weakness of purpose. It is like a pit bull terrier, a lovely nice dog when it gets its way but vicious if it feels threatened, whether there is a real threat or not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you. It was his blanket statement. It does sound as if illegal immigration is a big problem, but I take issue with Trumps statements. Some how, for whatever reason, immigrants seem to be able to enter across borders to find work. I agree that illegal entry should be stopped but Trump's way is so far from any chance of success. He also has antagonized many many people who might have voted GOP -but then that is my take on things.
> 
> It would be interesting to have a discussion about how the borders can be contained in a doable way. It sounds as if it is easy to cross into the States which should not be the case.
> 
> ...


The border with Mexico is a desert with no barriers except the heat, lack of water and scorpions....it can't be completely closed or monitored or fenced. Just like the northern border is a wilderness of unpopulated forests that can't be completely monitored or fenced. Passports only work at crossings. The rest is a matter of how desperate the immigrant and how attractive the goal.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We also have to remember that the original European settlers, ancestors of DAR and SAR members, were either invaders or what could be classified by today's standards as illegal aliens. Today it is a "we got ours so everybody else go away" perspective.


I so agree, Marilyn. I can accept the reality (reluctantly) that the US can't possibly admit all who would like to enter, but IMHO the self-righteousness and smug feeling of superiority so often involved in turning folks away is entirely inappropriate. Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history. Today's illegals want exactly what our forefathers did, and it's sheer hypocrisy to condemn them for wanting to make better lives for themselves and their children.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I so agree, Marilyn. I can accept the reality (reluctantly) that the US can't possibly admit all who would like to enter, but IMHO the self-righteousness and smug feeling of superiority so often involved in turning folks away is entirely inappropriate. Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history. Today's illegals want exactly what our forefathers did, and it's sheer hypocrisy to condemn them for wanting to make better lives for themselves and their children.


Don't forget, people need a scapegoat to blame for their troubles. The Irish, African-Americans, Vietnamese, gays; all can attest to being demonized and hated for that reason. Nothing new there, but that human dynamic is certainly being used by right-wing extremists right now to distract us from the fact that big money and power seekers are really the demons.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VuDuLi said:


> Well, consider me a new friend who loves what you have to say and how you say it, so I can't help but luv ya too!


Just don't send me any cream cheese recipes.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I so agree, Marilyn. I can accept the reality (reluctantly) that the US can't possibly admit all who would like to enter, but IMHO the self-righteousness and smug feeling of superiority so often involved in turning folks away is entirely inappropriate. Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history. Today's illegals want exactly what our forefathers did, and it's sheer hypocrisy to condemn them for wanting to make better lives for themselves and their children.


I will add one small correction to your statement


> Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history.


 Unfortunately I think that title would belong to Britain. Let us not forget India, the African Continent, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Sri Lanka, North America, to name several countries that were 'conquered and settled' by Britain. Remember, the sun never set on the British Empire, it extended all the way around the world. Those countries and continents were not vacant land devoid of inhabitants when the British settled there and took the lad from the original inhabitants. Then there is Russia. Tsarist Russia conquered those countries that have become independent nations since the break up of the Soviet Union. And do not forget Poland when you are discussing territories conquered and settled by Russia. China does not have a good record in this regard either. But, you can lay claim to being the largest group of land thieves and squatters in North America.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Just don't send me any cream cheese recipes.


But lamingtons, lemon slice, vanilla slice, custard tarts and pavlova are more than welcome. We like our pavs topped with Kiwi Fruit, please.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> But lamingtons, lemon slice, vanilla slice, custard tarts and pavlova are more than welcome. We like our pavs topped with Kiwi Fruit, please.


I like my pavs topped with Passion Fruit, please!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The border with Mexico is a desert with no barriers except the heat, lack of water and scorpions....it can't be completely closed or monitored or fenced. Just like the northern border is a wilderness of unpopulated forests that can't be completely monitored or fenced. Passports only work at crossings. The rest is a matter of how desperate the immigrant and how attractive the goal.


Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.

I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.

So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I like my pavs topped with Passion Fruit, please!


oooh! oooh! pavlova!!! You should have seen the one I tried to make for friends in Canada when we came home from New Zealand - it was a disaster. The merangue was too soft, I couldn't find any kiwi fruit or passion fruit- we ended up eating it with spoons out of dessert bowls.

I did a copper tooled picture for a friend's home when we lived in New Zealand and she made me a Pav once a month. I got the best of the deal -


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


The other way is to reform our immigration system and policies. This is something Obama has tried, but you know how far he gets with anything. The republicans have too much invested in blaming him for immigration problems.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And to know that our group of friends are joined because of our mutual concern for the humanity of others as well as ourselves. And to be able to *trust* our friends and not keep looking over our shoulders to see whether we are the next target of their disdain or vitriol because we many have said something to offend a self proclaimed queen.
> 
> It is so much easier to be decent and kind and look for the best in people. It seems to bring out the best in ourselves.
> 
> Then someone comes along spewing ugliness and hatred, apparently deliberately misinterpreting and misquoting people who do not acquiesce to that person's need for self aggrandizement. Can't really "win". If one responds or rebukes it incites the attacker to escalate. If one ignores the attacker sees it as a sign of weakness of purpose. It is like a pit bull terrier, a lovely nice dog when it gets its way but vicious if it feels threatened, whether there is a real threat or not.


A very picturesque way to get the point across, but I have no doubt that someone will read it and call it "disgusting."


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


Please do not adopt the Australian model. Tony Abbott has only one song in his repertoire, "We stopped the boats". Yes, he stopped the boats; pushing them back into Indonesian waters, transferring the asylum seekers into life rafts and towing them back into Indonesian waters, taking the asylum seekers on board naval vessels and interrogating them at see by immigration officials without enabling the asylum seekers to seek legal representation and then handing those poor asylum seekers over to the country they are trying to escape from. Who knows what happens to them then. Remember also that some asylum seekers have poor English. His latest is to pay the people smugglers to take the asylum seekers back to their departure port. Yes, he paid the people smugglers $30,000 to take the people they were trying to smuggle into Australia back to Indonesia. And of course all this is done in secrecy. He and his party refuse to tell the public what is going on, they say "we will not discuss operational matters". And please, no offshore detention centres where small children are locked up behind razor wire.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Unfortunately I think that title would belong to Britain. Let us not forget India, the African Continent, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Sri Lanka, North America, to name several countries that were 'conquered and settled' by Britain. Remember, the sun never set on the British Empire, it extended all the way around the world. Those countries and continents were not vacant land devoid of inhabitants when the British settled there and took the lad from the original inhabitants. Then there is Russia. Tsarist Russia conquered those countries that have become independent nations since the break up of the Soviet Union. And do not forget Poland when you are discussing territories conquered and settled by Russia. China does not have a good record in this regard either. But, you can lay claim to being the largest group of land thieves and squatters in North America.


Britain no longer rules most of those, nor does Russia. The U.S. is still occupying the lands it stole. I suppose China gives us a run for our money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> But lamingtons, lemon slice, vanilla slice, custard tarts and pavlova are more than welcome. We like our pavs topped with Kiwi Fruit, please.


Ohh, yes, please.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I like my pavs topped with Passion Fruit, please!


Passion or Kiwi, you can have whatever you want.

(I once saw a sign in a fruit store that said something like "First there was Kiwi the bird, then there was Kiwi the shoe polish, and now there's Kiwi the fruit.")


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


Actually, Trump doesn't build most things. After someone else builds them (usually the city), he takes them over, showing a prior agreement he had with someone who worked for the city. And corrupting city employees is a lot cheaper than doing things yourself.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Britain no longer rules most of those, nor does Russia. The U.S. is still occupying the lands it stole. I suppose China gives us a run for our money.


But many of those countries are still part of the Commonwealth of Nations. When Britain granted self government to her former colonies she did not withdraw the colonists. Rhodesia has changed its name and is now governed by its original inhabitants. South Africa had ended apartheid and is governed by the people of South Africa. India is now governed by the Indians but other former colonies are still not ruled by their original inhabitants. Australia and New Zealand are definitely not governed by the original inhabitants of those countries.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Ohh, yes, please.


Only if you are a good girl and wash your face and hands and sit down quietly and behave yourself.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Please do not adopt the Australian model. Tony Abbott has only one song in his repertoire, "We stopped the boats".


Totally off subject, Eve, but what is a "lamington"?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The other way is to reform our immigration system and policies. This is something Obama has tried, but you know how far he gets with anything. The republicans have too much invested in blaming him for immigration problems.


How about we reform our trade policies and corporate greed that has created many of the reasons for increased immigration? NAFTA and CAFTA have created disastrous economic conditions in Mexico and Central America. One example is how our corn is now exported to Mexico at a cheaper price than it was grown locally. This has destabilized local corn production by putting Mexicans out of work forcing them leave their communities to look for other work. They often end up in the cities working at factories built by our multi national corporations. The factories pay poor wages, have draconian working conditions, and often the workers live in slum conditions. 
Both democrats and republicans have endorsed and voted for trade agreements that hurt international workers as well as loosing American jobs. 
How many of us have advocated against the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership)? It will have further negative affects on US jobs and create more devastating conditions overseas.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Totally off subject, Eve, but what is a "lamington"?


Cut and paste here to save typing.

A lamington is an Australian cake. It consists of squares of sponge cake coated first in a layer of traditionally chocolate sauce, then in desiccated coconut. Lamingtons are sometimes served as two halves with a layer of cream or strawberry jam between, and are commonly found in South African and Australian outlets such as cafes, lunch bars, bakeries, home industries and supermarkets. A raspberry variety is also common in New Zealand.

The chocolate coating is a thin mixture, into which cubes of sponge cake are dipped, and the chocolate is absorbed into the outermost layers of the sponge where it sets. The cubes are then covered with coconut and left to set.

Lamingtons are often sold at fund raisers for Australian and South African youth groups such as Scouts, Guides and churches to the extent that such fund raisers are called "Lamington drives". The cake is supplied by commercial bakeries in large slabs and cut into about 40 mm cubes. Teams of volunteers work together, dipping the cake into the chocolate icing and rolling it in the coconut. Generally they are packaged up into one dozen lots for distribution within communities which have been solicited for orders ahead of time.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Totally off subject, Eve, but what is a "lamington"?


I lost my recipe- they are wonderful bars - and very different and very much part of "down under" (Australia and New Zealand}They are delicious.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Saw on the news tonight that NASCAR is not using a Trump resort for their big event as previously planned. That is where to hit bigots; in their wallets.


MarilynKnits
Yeah!!!!!!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I so agree, Marilyn. I can accept the reality (reluctantly) that the US can't possibly admit all who would like to enter, but IMHO the self-righteousness and smug feeling of superiority so often involved in turning folks away is entirely inappropriate. Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history. Today's illegals want exactly what our forefathers did, and it's sheer hypocrisy to condemn them for wanting to make better lives for themselves and their children.


susanmos2000
I am in total agreement with your statement.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Yeah!!!!!!!


especially him. I wonder how much the stupid statements he made will hurt him financially? He has lost some very big contracts and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

I honestly have never heard anyone who likes him. He is considered a fool by a lot of people up here. He thinks he is untouchable and will always have power. I will admit I won't have any pity on him if his arrogance causes him to face the fact that he is not important in the scheme of things.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> How about we reform our trade policies and corporate greed that has created many of the reasons for increased immigration? NAFTA and CAFTA have created disastrous economic conditions in Mexico and Central America. One example is how our corn is now exported to Mexico at a cheaper price than it was grown locally. This has destabilized local corn production by putting Mexicans out of work forcing them leave their communities to look for other work. They often end up in the cities working at factories built by our multi national corporations. The factories pay poor wages, have draconian working conditions, and often the workers live in slum conditions.
> Both democrats and republicans have endorsed and voted for trade agreements that hurt international workers as well as loosing American jobs.
> How many of us have advocated against the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership)? It will have further negative affects on US jobs and create more devastating conditions overseas.


peacegoddess
so far I have not seen the TPP and am anxious to see how it reads and then decide. With NAFTA having been negative for our workers I am hopeful that TPP will reverse that trend.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Here is a very good answer for you:
> 
> We can tell people to wait their turn in line, but, for example, for a Mexican (or a Guatemalan, a Filipino, a Pole, or folks from many other countries) who does not have a college degree and has no close relatives who are U.S. citizens or green card-holders, there is almost certainly no line for them to wait in: without reform to the legal system, they will not be able to migrate the legal way to the U.S., not if they wait ten years, not if they wait fifty years. But if they manage to come unlawfullyand historically we have not made it so difficult to do so, though our borders are much more secure now than they have ever beenthey will almost certainly find workbecause even in a time of high unemployment, there are certain jobs that most Americans have not proven willing to do. For individuals living in poverty, desperate to support their families, that has been an attractive option. Everyone would prefer to pay a reasonable fee and be granted a visa, but that has not been an option for most of those presently here unlawfully. That, in short, is how we got into this mess, and why so many immigrantsmost of them family-oriented peoplehave ended up undocumented in the shadows of our society.
> 
> More at http://g92.org/find-answers/process/


That's just an excuse for not enforcing our country's immigration laws. What other countries allow people to invade their country and do little to nothing about it? Why shouldn't there be a waiting period? Why should they not be required to have a sponsor? Why should they not be required to follow our laws? We got into the mess we are in because we looked the other way too often and for too long. What good are laws if no one is going to enforce them? All of our systems do not have to be reformed.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> so far I have not seen the TPP and am anxious to see how it reads and then decide. With NAFTA having been negative for our workers I am hopeful that TPP will reverse that trend.


It is so secret that all we have are hints by politicians and advocate about certain aspects of it. My objection is based on who supports it and what groups are lobbying against it. 
Bernie Sanders is against, labor leaders oppose it, big ag farms and Monsanto support it. Based on past trade agreements and their results I am opposed.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Cut and paste here to save typing.
> 
> A lamington is an Australian cake. It consists of squares of sponge cake coated first in a layer of traditionally chocolate sauce, then in desiccated coconut. Lamingtons are sometimes served as two halves with a layer of cream or strawberry jam between, and are commonly found in South African and Australian outlets such as cafes, lunch bars, bakeries, home industries and supermarkets. A raspberry variety is also common in New Zealand.
> 
> ...


Thanks!! It sounds tasty and looks great.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> ================================
> Correction:!! he is painting all hispanics with the same brush/ Not once has he even discussed that he is not talking about ALL hispanics - he is insulting each and every one. he just admitted that 'Maybe ---- there might be a few nice ones. What an insult. I would bet that the majority of Hispanics are nicer, kinder and treat others better than he does with his little finger. The rest of him is nasty and he is proud of it. Great President for you to chose. Just to get even with Obama.
> 
> I have less and less appreciation of anyone who defends what he is said. He is starting up the same
> ...


What has Trump said that is not true? Have illegals brought drugs into America? YES they have, through the drug cartels. Are some criminals? YES some are. Look at the crime in the border cities, which has branched out across the country, it's over the drug trade. In San Francisco, just the other day, a woman was shot dead by an illegal that was deported 4 prior times and has built up quite a criminal record while in this country - who know what he was on the run from in Mexico. We have illegals entering our country that after being processed, just disappear despite being told by authorities to make themselves available for a court appearance on a certain date. Trump wasn't referring to all Hispanics, they know it as do you. What has the PC crowd so riled up is that he is speaking the truth and will require many to admit it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Have illegals brought drugs into America? YES they have, through the drug cartels.


Have Americans created a market for drugs? Yes.

If Americans didn't demand that supply, there would be no trafficking. There are no drug pushers hanging on the fences outside elementary schools, as some used to claim. The war on drugs (thanks, Regan) has created this nightmare!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Trump wasn't referring to all Hispanics, they know it as do you.


His words were extreme and offensive. He painted a broad swath with his condemnations and prejudices. It's the righties who won't admit that he did.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What has Trump said that is not true? Have illegals brought drugs into America? YES they have, through the drug cartels. Are some criminals? YES some are. Look at the crime in the border cities, which has branched out across the country, it's over the drug trade. In San Francisco, just the other day, a woman was shot dead by an illegal that was deported 4 prior times and has built up quite a criminal record while in this country - who know what he was on the run from in Mexico. We have illegals entering our country that after being processed, just disappear despite being told by authorities to make themselves available for a court appearance on a certain date. Trump wasn't referring to all Hispanics, they know it as do you. What has the PC crowd so riled up is that he is speaking the truth and will require many to admit it.


====================
_We are well aware of the problems. However we don't put all hispanics in the same box. He did. and he insulted those 
who are legal- that is why people are upset.

There is also the fact that the people who try to go to the States are usually poor, hungry and desperate. He admits 
that"some, a very few might be nice people" . Who defends a twit like that?_ I would think the only hispanic people he has met are those who work for him and I would imagine some are illegal and therefore paid next to nothing.

That is it for me in this discussion. I stand by what I have said and what the others on this thread have said.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Only if you are a good girl and wash your face and hands and sit down quietly and behave yourself.


Oh, well, never mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> But many of those countries are still part of the Commonwealth of Nations. When Britain granted self government to her former colonies she did not withdraw the colonists. Rhodesia has changed its name and is now governed by its original inhabitants. South Africa had ended apartheid and is governed by the people of South Africa. India is now governed by the Indians but other former colonies are still not ruled by their original inhabitants. Australia and New Zealand are definitely not governed by the original inhabitants of those countries.


You're right. Just being independent doesn't mean the British have no longer have influence.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Drugs imports relate to profit. It is big business to bring drugs in and the cartels are not selling to small time dealers. There are American drug entrepreneurs who profit from the trade in drugs. Our foreign policy in Afghanistan contributes to the growing of opium and export of heroin. Many undocumented immigrants are fleeing social conditions our government has created through our foreign policies. We have disrupted other countries' economic systems to the point that Mexicans and Central Americans have few choices for decent lives in their own countries. Both democrats and republicans are guilty of creating these situations.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


Designer1234
in true Trump fashion he will push others into spending their money and building it and he will charge them for putting his Name on it. Most of the structures with his name are not his. I found it interesting that when one of those ventures failed and filed for bankruptcy, he threatened them with a law suit if they did not remove his name from it. What a Jewel. Trump Towers is not his, it belongs to all of those who bought Condos in it. He only owns a couple of condos in it. He also has PLENTY of Partners in all of his businesses (primarily Banks). He no doubt is rich on debt.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> not to worry- you never will.


You are so predictable. Perhaps you should live by your own words.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are so predictable. Perhaps you should live by your own words.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sweetie, it certainly works both ways. Our group can feel free to speak openly to one another, disagree, and just be comfy friends without having to measure our words and worry about image. We are not afraid to speak our minds and do not have a resident queen bee calling the shots. With friends like some of the characters who will remain nameless I have encountered, who needs enemies?
> 
> If you find us so unpleasant, why do you bother to come visit, anyway? Just to snipe?


Well sweetie, Why don't you say something original for a change? Enough spewing your KP liberal group talking points. You all agree with each other, except of course with your one conservative.That's blatantly evident with all the thumbs up smilies and, for those that use words, saying so. If you can't agree with each other you can't get along with each other.

How many threads do you need to agree with each other anyway, sweetie? I don't visit your POV or laugh out loud threads, as per our (collective) agreement. Any other thread is fair game. Maybe you should just stay in your home threads.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


>


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Just don't send me any cream cheese recipes.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Unfortunately I think that title would belong to Britain. Let us not forget India, the African Continent, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Sri Lanka, North America, to name several countries that were 'conquered and settled' by Britain. Remember, the sun never set on the British Empire, it extended all the way around the world. Those countries and continents were not vacant land devoid of inhabitants when the British settled there and took the lad from the original inhabitants. Then there is Russia. Tsarist Russia conquered those countries that have become independent nations since the break up of the Soviet Union. And do not forget Poland when you are discussing territories conquered and settled by Russia. China does not have a good record in this regard either. But, you can lay claim to being the largest group of land thieves and squatters in North America.


Guess we aren't Numero Uno, but it isn't a distinction one really would want to win. Not that it was us personally. All my grandparents and D's were what would have been considered "undesirable aliens" except _maybe_ my two grandfathers who were strong good looking young men when they came here and had sewing skills.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I like my pavs topped with Passion Fruit, please!


We favor pears poached in a rum syrup.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


If he became president the wall would more likely be to keep people in who were trying to flee the country.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A very picturesque way to get the point across, but I have no doubt that someone will read it and call it "disgusting."


For sure, there will be critics trolling the waters. Funny how they tend to live in glass houses.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Guess we aren't Numero Uno, but it isn't a distinction one really would want to win. Not that it was us personally. All my grandparents and D's were what would have been considered "undesirable aliens" except _maybe_ my two grandfathers who were strong good looking young men when they came here and had sewing skills.


My great grandfather was actually one of the convicts who was deported to Western Australia in 1851.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


>


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Well sweetie, Why don't you say something original for a change? Enough spewing your KP liberal group talking points. You all agree with each other, except of course with your one conservative.That's blatantly evident with all the thumbs up smilies and, for those that use words, saying so. If you can't agree with each other you can't get along with each other.
> 
> How many threads do you need to agree with each other anyway, sweetie? I don't visit your POV or laugh out loud threads, as per our (collective) agreement. Any other thread is fair game. Maybe you should just stay in your home threads.


We do, but we suffer home invasions all the time. And btw, if you don't get it, see sarcasm alert when I call you sweetie.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> His words were extreme and offensive. He painted a broad swath with his condemnations and prejudices. It's the righties who won't admit that he did.


Perhaps they were, but they were still true. That's what is making the PC crowd go crazy. It's time to get out from under political correctness, address the problems and find solutions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Well sweetie, Why don't you say something original for a change? Enough spewing your KP liberal group talking points. You all agree with each other, except of course with your one conservative.That's blatantly evident with all the thumbs up smilies and, for those that use words, saying so. If you can't agree with each other you can't get along with each other.
> 
> How many threads do you need to agree with each other anyway, sweetie? I don't visit your POV or laugh out loud threads, as per our (collective) agreement. Any other thread is fair game. Maybe you should just stay in your home threads.


Nobody said you need to stay away, just say something worth saying. Something new, something you haven't said a dozen times before. Like:

*What soloweygirl would write if she were truthful*:


> 1) Poor people are responsible for their own poverty; they should be like me and get training for good high-paying jobs.
> 
> 2) Designer 1234 always insults me; that's not right because though I may insult her first, well, it's just not right. So I can say anything I want to her.
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> We do, but we suffer home invasions all the time. And btw, if you don't get it, see sarcasm alert when I call you sweetie.


I used it the same you you did, but thanks for the tip.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If he became president the wall would more likely be to keep people in who were trying to flee the country.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I used it the same you you did, but thanks for the tip.


There you go again, trying to be the poster girl for original thought who wouldn't know one if it bit you wherever. Reread your last few posts you made while visiting here, and see yourself repeat like a day old cucumber.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> We favor pears poached in a rum syrup.


Ooohhhhh.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl wrote: What soloweygirl would write if she were truthful:
Quote:

1) Poor people are responsible for their own poverty; they should be like me and get training for good high-paying jobs.

2) Designer 1234 always insults me; that's not right because though I may insult her first, well, it's just not right. So I can say anything I want to her.

3) Immigrants are stealing our jobs and breaking our laws. They should try to come in the right way; that's what I would do. If they die before we let them in, so what.

4) You liberals are all nasty and abusive and can't get along with each other, the way I and my friends get along. Some may be afraid to disagree or to say anything to outsiders and have to resort to PMs, but still we all get along and hug and kiss each other every night.

5) Anyone who talks back to me is abusive. If I'm nasty and insulting, that's not abuse; it's telling you what you need to hear. If you respond in kind, that's abuse!

6) But if you really want to be like me (the best way to be), sweetie, lecture people on all kinds of subjects, but stay uninformed so that what you say is nonsense. Then you'll be exactly like me.

Our Purl is trying to out Barry Dave, out Twain Mark, out Rogers Will, and out Wit Witless.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Poor Purl wrote: What soloweygirl would write if she were truthful:
> Quote:
> 
> 1) Poor people are responsible for their own poverty; they should be like me and get training for good high-paying jobs.
> ...


And doing a fine job, too.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> And doing a fine job, too.


I agree -- well put!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> in true Trump fashion he will push others into spending their money and building it and he will charge them for putting his Name on it. Most of the structures with his name are not his. I found it interesting that when one of those ventures failed and filed for bankruptcy, he threatened them with a law suit if they did not remove his name from it. What a Jewel. Trump Towers is not his, it belongs to all of those who bought Condos in it. He only owns a couple of condos in it. He also has PLENTY of Partners in all of his businesses (primarily Banks). He no doubt is rich on debt.


I wonder whether in the future new builders will want his name on Any new hotel, golf course etc.? It should be interesting to see whether anyone wants his name anywhere. I see a card house slowly falling. (remember the way we used to build card houses from a stack of cards? or is that just during my time? Something like dominos - once one falls, the rest fall too.

He depends on people knowing his name and believing he is 
able to make unlimited money - interesting.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Ladies,

You are all doing a smashing job this afternoon. Doesn't look like you need reinforcements. But I still like to hear from the other side. It keeps us fresh.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> You are all doing a smashing job this afternoon. Doesn't look like you need reinforcements. But I still like to hear from the other side. It keeps us fresh.


Do you mean Joey and Solo -?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> You are all doing a smashing job this afternoon. Doesn't look like you need reinforcements. But I still like to hear from the other side. It keeps us fresh.


SQM
soloweygirl is looking for a friend, want to volunteer? I think that we can do without their likes quite well.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> soloweygirl is looking for a friend, want to volunteer? I think that we can do without their likes quite well.


I appreciate your suggestion, howeverI would suggest that a new thread be opened and you can have discussions with them - we have been there and done that here; over and over.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder whether in the future new builders will want his name on Any new hotel, golf course etc.? It should be interesting to see whether anyone wants his name anywhere. I see a card house slowly falling. (remember the way we used to build card houses from a stack of cards? or is that just during my time? Something like dominos - once one falls, the rest fall too.
> 
> He depends on people knowing his name and believing he is
> able to make unlimited money - interesting.


His well-known claim to be worth $9billion is dissolving as actual experts analyze his financial statements. This little adventure into politics may be his undoing because he will be exposed for the fraud he is. Marketing one's name only works if you have a good name to market and Trump is working very hard to destroy that.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I so agree, Marilyn. I can accept the reality (reluctantly) that the US can't possibly admit all who would like to enter, but IMHO the self-righteousness and smug feeling of superiority so often involved in turning folks away is entirely inappropriate. Let's be honest with ourselves-we Americans are the largest group of land thieves and squatters in history. Today's illegals want exactly what our forefathers did, and it's sheer hypocrisy to condemn them for wanting to make better lives for themselves and their children.


This is crap! Americans work hard and buy their land or they rent from others! Possibly, you could say that multi national corporations steal people's land but the rest of us pay! To say that we're responsible for what early americans did, taking land from the natives is absurd. There is no one on earth who lives on land, that wasn't conquered or stolen by someone, at some point in history. That's just the way it was and still is, in some parts of the world.

My ancestors came here three generations ago. They emigrated legally! They were given nothing! They learned the language, worked hard, ate little and wore rags. They assimilated. I've inherited no land nor wealth. We've worked hard for everything we have. To say that we as Americans, have stolen or squatted is absolutely false!

Historically, americans have been the most generous people on earth! We give our time, our money and our very lives to help others! How can you portray us in this manner?

Every country on earth has immigration policies and laws. They are made for the good of the country. In generations past, our country needed more people to work the land and fill jobs in an expanding economy. That is no longer the case. Urban sprawl is taking up our farmlands and ranchlands. Half of our population is unemployed. It is extremely irresponsible to flout the law and allow unlimited immigration! We're already feeding half our population on borrowed money! It doesn't matter if we feel sorry for people from other countries or not. We do not have the resources to support them. IMO, it's the 1% that's behind the push to bring in illegal immigrants. They drop the wages for all of us. Before long, we'll all be forced to compete for jobs at less than half of what they paid in the past. I cannot imagine how anyone thinks that we can survive. Our country can no longer support it's own population! How is taking on more, going to improve the situation? SDont tell me that we can raise taxes on the rich, because you KNOW that is never going to happen. Raising tax rates mean nothing to actual taxes paid. They will never pay their fair share, no !matter who's in office!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Ladies,
> 
> You are all doing a smashing job this afternoon. Doesn't look like you need reinforcements. But I still like to hear from the other side. It keeps us fresh.


Oh, yes. Sometimes so fresh we get ourselves in trouble. But we do have fun.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We favor pears poached in a rum syrup.


oh, oh, oh!!! that sounds really good too.

I wish I didn't live so far from both of you.

I would love a pav. I would have to hide it because Pat and Son and Daughter would eat it all. I want one of my own.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> His well-known claim to be worth $9billion is dissolving as actual experts analyze his financial statements. This little adventure into politics may be his undoing because he will be exposed for the fraud he is. Marketing one's name only works if you have a good name to market and Trump is working very hard to destroy that.


I agree!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> oh, oh, oh!!! that sounds really good too.
> 
> I wish I didn't live so far from both of you.
> 
> I would love a pav. I would have to hide it because Pat and Son and Daughter would eat it all. I want one of my own.


Use a quarter sheet pan and pipe four individual ones. I do that when I make cookie bars for the nephews. A separate pan for each of them, and I weigh out the dough so they are exactly alike. The "boys" are 47 and 52 but their brains haven't left their teens yet.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I appreciate your suggestion, howeverI would *suggest that a new thread be opened and you can have discussions with them* - we have been there and done that here; over and over.


Who is interested in doing the Masochism Tango? We get enough abuse and condescension without going out to look for it.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Perhaps they were, but they were still true. That's what is making the PC crowd go crazy. It's time to get out from under political correctness, address the problems and find solutions.


The PC crowd go crazy??????????


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well friends dh and I are going for a drive. see you all later.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops - double post - see you all later.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There you go again, trying to be the poster girl for original thought who wouldn't know one if it bit you wherever. Reread your last few posts you made while visiting here, and see yourself repeat like a day old cucumber.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Poor Purl wrote: What soloweygirl would write if she were truthful:
> Quote:
> 
> 1) Poor people are responsible for their own poverty; they should be like me and get training for good high-paying jobs.
> ...


Well, maybe just the last.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Use a quarter sheet pan and pipe four individual ones. I do that when I make cookie bars for the nephews. A separate pan for each of them, and I weigh out the dough so they are exactly alike. The "boys" are 47 and 52 but their brains haven't left their teens yet.


My baby boy is 41 years old today , or he will be in just under three hours. His brain is definitely locked into the teenage boy and chocolate cake age. I honestly thought that the male brain did not mature past the teen age years. Son in law will be 49 in August and he is still a big kid, acting the goat with his teenage son's friends, chasing them all over the house playing water pistols, out there kicking the footy with them. You name the game and he is first to line up to play.

Now I have just typed something that I know cannot be true. I said my baby will be 41 years old in under three hours. NO NO NO this is just a hypnotic dream state brought about because I know they are going to wheel me down to theatre for the caesar in little over an hour. I am not old enough to have a child who is 41 years old, let alone another who is 54 years old.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> My baby boy is 41 years old today , or he will be in just under three hours. His brain is definitely locked into the teenage boy and chocolate cake age. I honestly thought that the male brain did not mature past the teen age years. Son in law will be 49 in August and he is still a big kid, acting the goat with his teenage son's friends, chasing them all over the house playing water pistols, out there kicking the footy with them. You name the game and he is first to line up to play.
> 
> Now I have just typed something that I know cannot be true. I said my baby will be 41 years old in under three hours. NO NO NO this is just a hypnotic dream state brought about because I know they are going to wheel me down to theatre for the caesar in little over an hour. I am not old enough to have a child who is 41 years old, let alone another who is 54 years old.


Grin and ignore it!

I avoid mirrors because until I see myself in one, I'm still 26.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

They keep their youthful outlook forever, it seems. DH is 80 and sometimes is going on 17. He was a very successful teacher at the middle school level; I think it was because he still could relate to what it was to be 12 or 13 years old. One nice thing about living in the same community almost forever, the community where he taught, is we frequently see former students. They greet him lovingly, and when I see some of their moms at the Senior Center they tell me D was the best teacher their child had.



EveMCooke said:


> My baby boy is 41 years old today , or he will be in just under three hours. His brain is definitely locked into the teenage boy and chocolate cake age. I honestly thought that the male brain did not mature past the teen age years. Son in law will be 49 in August and he is still a big kid, acting the goat with his teenage son's friends, chasing them all over the house playing water pistols, out there kicking the footy with them. You name the game and he is first to line up to play.
> 
> Now I have just typed something that I know cannot be true. I said my baby will be 41 years old in under three hours. NO NO NO this is just a hypnotic dream state brought about because I know they are going to wheel me down to theatre for the caesar in little over an hour. I am not old enough to have a child who is 41 years old, let alone another who is 54 years old.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Grin and ignore it!
> 
> I avoid mirrors because until I see myself in one, I'm still 26.


About l0 - 15 years ago I walked by a mirror and saw my Aunt - I couldn't believe it could be me looking so much like her. It took awhile to get used to it. Actually I would prefer to look like her than other relatives I had. She was in her 90's when she died. My cousin lives near here and I used to babysit her when she was little. I met her a couple of months ago for the first time in over 30 years and she looked at me and her eyes filled up. She said it was like being in the room with her Mom.

The biggest shock was one day about l0 years ago I saw Pat and I in a Big store window and didn't recognize the woman with Pat who had very very gray hair. That was something I still have a problem with sometimes. We keep young inside, it is the body that ages. Nothing we can do.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am watching the world women's soccer being played in Vancouver, I believe. *The US is 2 points ahead of Japan. Yeay USA!!!* It is early in the game but it sure helps to be 2 points ahead of Japan as they are an excelent team and are currently World Champions.\

*Yeah again, USA!!!*


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Here is a link to the info for the differences in Communism vs Socialism.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> They keep their youthful outlook forever, it seems. DH is 80 and sometimes is going on 17. He was a very successful teacher at the middle school level; I think it was because he still could relate to what it was to be 12 or 13 years old. One nice thing about living in the same community almost forever, the community where he taught, is we frequently see former students. They greet him lovingly, and when I see some of their moms at the Senior Center they tell me D was the best teacher their child had.


People do not believe him when he tells them how old he is. They tell him he only looks as if he is in his late 20s. Mind you having red hair almost down to his waist may make him look younger.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> People do not believe him when he tells them how old he is. They tell him he only looks as if he is in his late 20s. Mind you having red hair almost down to his waist may make him look younger.


Yes, DH gets that glazed look when he tells people his age. He doesn't have a big tummy, has his hair and it is still salt and pepper, and looks younger than some of the people we know who are 10 to 15 years younger. He laughs and says it is because he was smart enough to marry a home ec major who feeds him properly. Doesn't hurt that he has good genes. His mother lived to 98 and his paternal grandmother to her early 90's. The elders who died younger were either smokers or lived their adult lives with second hand smoke.

Anyway, the younger your kid looks the younger people think you are, so just live it up and have as much fun out of life as you can.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Who is interested in doing the Masochism Tango? We get enough abuse and condescension without going out to look for it.


SQMI didn't mean my post answering you as a slam. I just have little interest in the constant same old, same old as we have heard it all before. jmo


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't know whether any of you are soccer fans but it is now 

4 -1 (USA) and nearly half time. Rather a surprise - Japan seems a bit shaken up but they are very very good so it could change.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I do think if you have a young attitude your face shows it unless you have something medical to change that.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My baby boy is 41 years old today , or he will be in just under three hours. His brain is definitely locked into the teenage boy and chocolate cake age. I honestly thought that the male brain did not mature past the teen age years. Son in law will be 49 in August and he is still a big kid, acting the goat with his teenage son's friends, chasing them all over the house playing water pistols, out there kicking the footy with them. You name the game and he is first to line up to play.
> 
> Now I have just typed something that I know cannot be true. I said my baby will be 41 years old in under three hours. NO NO NO this is just a hypnotic dream state brought about because I know they are going to wheel me down to theatre for the caesar in little over an hour. I am not old enough to have a child who is 41 years old, let alone another who is 54 years old.


It sure can hit you over your head when you think you are still younger than they are. I have a 55 year old son and a 45 year old daughter. (mind you, sometimes I really think Pat and I are younger than they are - also smarter!! )shhhhh - don't tell anyone. Love them both dearly.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> About l0 - 15 years ago I walked by a mirror and saw my Aunt - I couldn't believe it could be me looking so much like her. It took awhile to get used to it. Actually I would prefer to look like her than other relatives I had. She was in her 90's when she died. My cousin lives near here and I used to babysit her when she was little. I met her a couple of months ago for the first time in over 30 years and she looked at me and her eyes filled up. She said it was like being in the room with her Mom.
> 
> The biggest shock was one day about l0 years ago I saw Pat and I in a Big store window and didn't recognize the woman with Pat who had very very gray hair. That was something I still have a problem with sometimes. We keep young inside, it is the body that ages. Nothing we can do.


You made me laugh. I keep the lights dim when I look in the mirror and mostly see what I want to see. However, when I do look in bright lights I see a chimp/my mother. Now that is strange.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I was just watching CBC and then CNN and thenWGN and all were talking about Chicago. *SQM* they were saying that 47 people were shot at last night. One little boy killed (not sure of exactly how many others were killed as I signed in later - possibly all 47?)

You be careful. The Police captain is asking for more funds for more policemen. Although he is not sure that is the answer. He says the gun situation is very bad in Chicago and they need the police to be backed up if they arrest those carrying illegal weapons.

It seems that gang members are not really charged and put away, or taken to court for using illegal firearms.

He said it isn't just in the poorer neighbourhoods but all over the city. Said that the gangs do what they want. However he did say the numbers were down from last year. He also said that the police collect one illegal firearm every hour around the clock.

Just be careful, friend.- Shirley


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It might lower the unemployment rate, but it wouldn't be a cushy job. Wouldn't it be funny if the Build-a-Bridge idea ended up attracting illegals?



Designer1234 said:


> Yes indeed. There are many places on our border where you can just walk across it. (escapee getting within 2 miles through bushes and trees} is an example.
> 
> I agree they must be very desperate - I think there has to be another method -it is a difficult situation.
> 
> So Trump is going to build a wall???? hmmm. Like the great wall of China???? And will he put guards on it and keep people out? hmmmm.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hey ladies, Eve and I seemed to have hijacked a topic on chit chat - talking about Australia and New Zealand and a story or two about our lives in New Zealand.

check out for this page on:

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-347069-10.html


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I was just watching CBC and then CNN and thenWGN and all were talking about Chicago. *SQM* they were saying that 47 people were shot at last night. One little boy killed (not sure of exactly how many others were killed as I signed in later - possibly all 47?)
> 
> You be careful. The Police captain is asking for more funds for more policemen. Although he is not sure that is the answer. He says the gun situation is very bad in Chicago and they need the police to be backed up if they arrest those carrying illegal weapons.
> 
> ...


Oy!

The crime is mostly on the South and West sides. I live in a lowest crime area on the North side, in a well-secured bldg so I am okay. But I miss Roosevelt Island, NY where there was no crime at all. Manhattan really turned around in the years I lived there. Don't worry 1234, I am invisible anyway unless I wear red lipstick. But thanks for the heads down.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hey ladies, Eve and I seemed to have hijacked a topic on chit chat - talking about Australia and New Zealand and a story or two about our lives in New Zealand.
> 
> check out for this page on:
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-347069-10.html


Thanks for inviting the gang over, the more friends the merrier. Shirley will dance the Haka and I will do corroboree. :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> Here is a link to the info for the differences in Communism vs Socialism.
> 
> http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism


Thank you. This looks like a useful website. The differences are serious ones.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> The other way is to reform our immigration system and policies. This is something Obama has tried, but you know how far he gets with anything. The republicans have too much invested in blaming him for immigration problems.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm thinking Bill Cosby and The Donald as masters (in their own minds) of denial.



Designer1234 said:


> especially him. I wonder how much the stupid statements he made will hurt him financially? He has lost some very big contracts and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.
> 
> I honestly have never heard anyone who likes him. He is considered a fool by a lot of people up here. He thinks he is untouchable and will always have power. I will admit I won't have any pity on him if his arrogance causes him to face the fact that he is not important in the scheme of things.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

.



soloweygirl said:


> What has Trump said that is not true? Have illegals brought drugs into America? YES they have, through the drug cartels. Are some criminals? YES some are. Look at the crime in the border cities, which has branched out across the country, it's over the drug trade. In San Francisco, just the other day, a woman was shot dead by an illegal that was deported 4 prior times and has built up quite a criminal record while in this country - who know what he was on the run from in Mexico. We have illegals entering our country that after being processed, just disappear despite being told by authorities to make themselves available for a court appearance on a certain date. Trump wasn't referring to all Hispanics, they know it as do you. What has the PC crowd so riled up is that he is speaking the truth and will require many to admit it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wish we had real investigative reporters who would dig to see who has employed illegals. Inquiring minds want to know. :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


>


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: I'm with you Designer.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Would you say that that worked out well for all? I think I'd say that some 'criminals' choose that route to feed their families. I applaud them.



EveMCooke said:


> My great grandfather was actually one of the convicts who was deported to Western Australia in 1851.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl, I have tried to Quote Reply to your comments about a certain, repetitive invader. I'm sure you all know what I mean. 

I just wanted to applaud your writing and thinking. It's a pleasure to read and laugh. Thank you so much.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> There you go again, trying to be the poster girl for original thought who wouldn't know one if it bit you wherever. Reread your last few posts you made while visiting here, and see yourself repeat like a day old cucumber.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Poor Purl wrote: What soloweygirl would write if she were truthful:
> Quote:
> 
> 1) Poor people are responsible for their own poverty; they should be like me and get training for good high-paying jobs.
> ...


....And the two of you should do stand-up. Or do you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe it's a Satire Alert?



Designer1234 said:


> Do you mean Joey and Solo -?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Donald is nothing but hot air. I imagine he and his fourth wife are lonely for dinner parties. Even he should notice. Perhaps he will become besties with Hugh Hephner, OJ Simpson, Bill Cosby etc.



DGreen said:


> His well-known claim to be worth $9billion is dissolving as actual experts analyze his financial statements. This little adventure into politics may be his undoing because he will be exposed for the fraud he is. Marketing one's name only works if you have a good name to market and Trump is working very hard to destroy that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Time travel. Alternate Universe.



EveMCooke said:


> My baby boy is 41 years old today , or he will be in just under three hours. His brain is definitely locked into the teenage boy and chocolate cake age. I honestly thought that the male brain did not mature past the teen age years. Son in law will be 49 in August and he is still a big kid, acting the goat with his teenage son's friends, chasing them all over the house playing water pistols, out there kicking the footy with them. You name the game and he is first to line up to play.
> 
> Now I have just typed something that I know cannot be true. I said my baby will be 41 years old in under three hours. NO NO NO this is just a hypnotic dream state brought about because I know they are going to wheel me down to theatre for the caesar in little over an hour. I am not old enough to have a child who is 41 years old, let alone another who is 54 years old.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean, JellyBean.



Designer1234 said:


> About l0 - 15 years ago I walked by a mirror and saw my Aunt - I couldn't believe it could be me looking so much like her. It took awhile to get used to it. Actually I would prefer to look like her than other relatives I had. She was in her 90's when she died. My cousin lives near here and I used to babysit her when she was little. I met her a couple of months ago for the first time in over 30 years and she looked at me and her eyes filled up. She said it was like being in the room with her Mom.
> 
> The biggest shock was one day about l0 years ago I saw Pat and I in a Big store window and didn't recognize the woman with Pat who had very very gray hair. That was something I still have a problem with sometimes. We keep young inside, it is the body that ages. Nothing we can do.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very informative. Thanks for the link.



Evie RM said:


> Here is a link to the info for the differences in Communism vs Socialism.
> 
> http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Yes, DH gets that glazed look when he tells people his age. He doesn't have a big tummy, has his hair and it is still salt and pepper, and looks younger than some of the people we know who are 10 to 15 years younger. He laughs and says it is because he was smart enough to marry a home ec major who feeds him properly. Doesn't hurt that he has good genes. His mother lived to 98 and his paternal grandmother to her early 90's. The elders who died younger were either smokers or lived their adult lives with second hand smoke.
> 
> Anyway, the younger your kid looks the younger people think you are, so just live it up and have as much fun out of life as you can.


I think it makes sense to ADD 20 years to your age. It's easier to hear, "WOW! She looks younger than 120."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I sometimes think a bunch of Mamas and Grammas should 'police' the streets, grab the hommies by the ear (or somewhere else) and send them home. Let us know if you need us.



SQM said:


> Oy!
> 
> The crime is mostly on the South and West sides. I live in a lowest crime area on the North side, in a well-secured bldg so I am okay. But I miss Roosevelt Island, NY where there was no crime at all. Manhattan really turned around in the years I lived there. Don't worry 1234, I am invisible anyway unless I wear red lipstick. But thanks for the heads down.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't know whether any of you are soccer fans but it is now
> 
> 4 -1 (USA) and nearly half time. Rather a surprise - Japan seems a bit shaken up but they are very very good so it could change.


I watched the last 20 minutes. All those young women, American and Japanese, were amazing athletes. But of course I am glad, especially on behalf of Abby Wambaugh and Hope Solo, that it was a happy outcome for my compatriots.

We are off to upstate NY to spend time with family today and tomorrow. Hope nothing too dramatic happens and that all stay well.


----------



## barbarafletcher (Apr 2, 2012)

Wow! Somebody is on their soap box...happy days ahead


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> ....And the two of you should do stand-up. Or do you?


I don't know about Marilyn, but standing up is not something I do willingly.:mrgreen:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The Donald is nothing but hot air. I imagine he and his fourth wife are lonely for dinner parties. Even he should notice. Perhaps he will become besties with Hugh Hephner, OJ Simpson, Bill Cosby etc.


That's an interesting collection of eminent men. I don't know what crime Heffner committed other than being creepy, and Cosby's behavior is probably criminal in a mild way, but OJ? The Donald could never live up to his denial. And even if he tried, he wouldn't get away with it the way OJ did.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't know whether any of you are soccer fans but it is now
> 
> 4 -1 (USA) and nearly half time. Rather a surprise - Japan seems a bit shaken up but they are very very good so it could change.


soccer

Designer1234
I am a big Soccer Fan and want to thank Canada for being such wonderful Hosts to all of the Players. I love Soccer because anyone of any size can play it. The inequities in Soccer are in the compensation. Top Men get 20 Million, top Women only 1 Million.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think it makes sense to ADD 20 years to your age. It's easier to hear, "WOW! She looks younger than 120."


RIGHT! that is a thought!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for inviting the gang over, the more friends the merrier. Shirley will dance the Haka and I will do corroboree. :XD:


I know how to stick my tongue out and I can have my face tatooed -- that should do it - (hmm- I wonder how it would be received with a white haired old lady!

I will keep my eye open for you doing your dance Eve.

It is refreshing to see people enjoying a conversation -


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for inviting the gang over, the more friends the merrier. Shirley will dance the Haka and I will do corroboree. :XD:


sorry, double post. Still half asleep.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sit down & relax! My kind of friend.



Poor Purl said:


> I don't know about Marilyn, but standing up is not something I do willingly.:mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO they all show varying levels of ego gone awry with results from creepy to criminal. Still works in progress perhaps?



Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting collection of eminent men. I don't know what crime Heffner committed other than being creepy, and Cosby's behavior is probably criminal in a mild way, but OJ? The Donald could never live up to his denial. And even if he tried, he wouldn't get away with it the way OJ did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Fans will show that women's sports have a huge and loyal following. Onward!



Huckleberry said:


> soccer
> 
> Designer1234
> I am a big Soccer Fan and want to thank Canada for being such wonderful Hosts to all of the Players. I love Soccer because anyone of any size can play it. The inequities in Soccer are in the compensation. Top Men get 20 Million, top Women only 1 Million.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good friends lend amusement.



Designer1234 said:


> I know how to stick my tongue out and I can have my face tatooed -- that should do it - (hmm- I wonder how it would be received with a white haired old lady!
> 
> I will keep my eye open for you doing your dance Eve.
> 
> It is refreshing to see people enjoying a conversation -


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO they all show varying levels of ego gone awry with results from creepy to criminal. Still works in progress perhaps?


I hope not. Are you expecting to get even worse?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> The PC crowd go crazy??????????


Isn't this just so sweet? You demand that I leave you alone, but you just can't stop replying to me.

PC crowd = political correctness crowd.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't this just so sweet? You demand that I leave you alone, but you just can't stop replying to me.
> 
> PC crowd = political correctness crowd.


solowweygirl
you may want to hitch your trailer to your pick-up and ride into the sunset. Happy trails to you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, have had a pretty interesting day. Doctor's appointment, eye apptment and tests - nothing too serious from what I can gather. I am a bit weary 

oh, and here is a message for you all.

&#654;&#477;l&#633;&#305;&#613;s '&#477;uo&#654;&#633;&#477;&#652;&#477; '&#654;&#592;p &#477;&#596;&#305;u &#592; &#477;&#652;&#592;&#613;


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Well, have had a pretty interesting day. Doctor's appointment, eye apptment and tests - nothing too serious from what I can gather. I am a bit weary
> 
> oh, and here is a message for you all.
> 
> ʎǝlɹıɥs 'ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ 'ʎɐp ǝɔıu ɐ ǝʌɐɥ


Have you been standing on your head, Shirley? Check that you keys haven't fallen out of your pocket. :lol:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Heehee--let the fun begin! From AP:

As Republican infighting grows, donors call for calm

WASHINGTON (AP)  Worried about "Republican on Republican violence," top party donors are taking action, with one firing off a letter calling for more civility and another seeking to block businessman Donald Trump from the debate stage altogether.

Foster Friess, a Wyoming-based investor and one of the party's top 20 donors in the last presidential contest, issued a letter to 16 White House prospects and the Republican National Committee late last week calling for candidates to stay on the "civility reservation."

"Our candidates will benefit if they all submit to Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment, 'Thou shall not speak ill of a fellow Republican,'" Friess wrote in a copy of the letter sent to Republican National Committee chairman Reince Priebus and obtained by The Associated Press.

In the dispatch, Friess cites the backing of casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and Chicago Cubs co-owner Todd Ricketts. "Would you join the effort to inspire a more civil way of making their points?" Friess wrote. "If they drift off the 'civility reservation,' let's all immediately communicate that to them."

The call for calm comes as the sprawling Republican field shows signs it could tip into a bare-knuckles struggle for the nomination  a scenario that the party's elite donors see as a distressing echo of four years ago.

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie on Monday charged that Republicans don't need Texas Sen. Ted Cruz's "lectures." Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker repeatedly dismisses Republicans in Congress as doing little. And Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul regularly jabs his Republican opponents by name.

Yet no candidate has injected more provocation into the 2016 Republican presidential primary than Trump.

While few party officials see the reality television star as a credible candidate, he has lashed out at a growing number of Republican critics who have condemned his recent description of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists. Trump over the weekend posted a message from another user on his Twitter account charging that former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush "has to like the Mexican illegals because of his wife," Columba, who was born in Mexico.

Campaigning in New Hampshire over the weekend, Bush said he "absolutely" took the remark personally. Trump has not apologized, but said Monday evening "somebody else" retweeted the message and "I don't know anything about it" even though it was under his account.

Trump stood firm on his comments about immigrants, saying earlier in the day "the Mexican government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States," and "criminals, drug dealers, rapists" are among them. He said "many fabulous people" come from Mexico and the U.S. is better for them, but this country is "a dumping ground for Mexico."

Republican donor John Jordan said Monday that GOP leaders should take steps to block Trump's access to the first presidential debate in early August.

Organizers at Fox News, backed by the Republican National Committee, have released guidelines allowing the top 10 candidates in national polling to participate. Trump would qualify under the current terms, while contenders such as Ohio's two-term Gov. John Kasich would not.

"Someone in the party ought to start some sort of petition saying, 'If Trump's going to be on the stage, I'm not going to be on there with him,'" Jordan told AP on Monday. "I'm toying with the idea of it."

"It's something I feel strongly about as somebody who not only cares about the Republican Party, but also Latinos," Jordan said.

Even as the other candidates say they're trying to avoid intraparty backbiting, however, they can't seem to avoid it.

In an interview Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," Cruz refused to condemn Trump's comments, saying he's not going to perpetrate "Republican-on-Republican violence." Christie, who entered the presidential race last week, wasn't having it.

"I find it ironic, right, that Ted Cruz is giving lectures on Republican-on-Republican violence," Christie said on Fox News, accusing the Texan of sponsoring hardball ads against Republican Sen. Lamar Alexander in 2014 primaries. "I mean, all due respect, I don't need to be lectured by Ted Cruz."

The Republican National Committee has dramatically reduced the number of primary debates before the 2016 contest largely to avoid the kind of attacks that bloodied their 2012 nominee, Mitt Romney.

As the last GOP nomination heated up in January 2012, Romney and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich got particularly nasty. Gingrich joined Obama supporters in attacking Romney's business background, calling him a "vulture capitalist."

Donors remember those exchanges well and fear a repeat of primary vitriol would lead to another general election loss. "Ninety-nine percent of leading donors saw the candidates carve each other up in the 2012 primaries and come out weaker for it and are determined not to let that happen again," said Fred Malek, who has helped raise money for GOP presidential candidates for four decades.

Responding to Friess' letter, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee wrote he plans on "becoming the nominee by playing a better game, not by breaking the legs of my rivals."

"I hope that we don't commit fratricide again as a party," Huckabee wrote, according to a copy of his response obtained by AP.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)




----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you been standing on your head, Shirley? Check that you keys haven't fallen out of your pocket. :lol:


I guess my head is on upside down.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--let the fun begin! From AP:
> 
> As Republican infighting grows, donors call for calm
> 
> ...


The circular firing squad is already forming.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I guess my head is on upside down.


Better than up your......well, you know.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The circular firing squad is already forming.


I love it! Can't imagine how the GOP is going to clip Trump's wings, but they'd better get with it. If Trump actually makes it to the debate platform, the Republicans might as well run up the white flag now instead of waiting until 2016.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Although it's scared the dickens out of us already, I do think we've been lucky. I'd bet there are many more near-misses than we should know. I do expect 'surprises.'

I don't agree with the 'if you change your habits, they win.' I avoid crowds.



Poor Purl said:


> I hope not. Are you expecting to get even worse?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> solowweygirl
> you may want to hitch your trailer to your pick-up and ride into the sunset. Happy trails to you.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for giving me a puzzle. Happy Days.



Designer1234 said:


> Well, have had a pretty interesting day. Doctor's appointment, eye apptment and tests - nothing too serious from what I can gather. I am a bit weary
> 
> oh, and here is a message for you all.
> 
> ʎǝlɹıɥs 'ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ 'ʎɐp ǝɔıu ɐ ǝʌɐɥ


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you been standing on your head, Shirley? Check that you keys haven't fallen out of your pocket. :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Boys, please....have fun playing grown-ups. heh heh.



susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--let the fun begin! From AP:
> 
> As Republican infighting grows, donors call for calm
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> The circular firing squad is already forming.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Couldn't happen to a better bunch.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Well, have had a pretty interesting day. Doctor's appointment, eye apptment and tests - nothing too serious from what I can gather. I am a bit weary
> 
> oh, and here is a message for you all.
> 
> ʎǝlɹıɥs 'ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ 'ʎɐp ǝɔıu ɐ ǝʌɐɥ


Thanks Shirley. Finally someone is understanding and posting messages in a form that are easy for us Aussies to read without having to stand on our heads. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Glad your doctor's appointments were without major upsets. Smile because we are all smiling with you.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

On thinking about it, I hope Trump does get on the GOP debate stage--and that he really does blow the other hopefuls out of the water to win the primary. 

Really.

Think about it--if that were to happen he wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning the election. Perfect.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I love it! Can't imagine how the GOP is going to clip Trump's wings, but they'd better get with it. If Trump actually makes it to the debate platform, the Republicans might as well run up the white flag now instead of waiting until 2016.


Trump won't be able to debate coherently! All he'll be able to talk about are those darned Mexicans.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> On thinking about it, I hope Trump does get on the GOP debate stage--and that he really does blow the other hopefuls out of the water to win the primary.
> 
> Really.
> 
> Think about it--if that were to happen he wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning the election. Perfect.


Oh hell, I really wouldn't mind if the Donald DID become POTUS, with that hair perhaps occupying the VP slot. He'd self-destruct in his first thirty seconds of office, the Republicans in Congress would be cowering in the basement against the torches and pitchforks of an outraged John Q. Public, and the Democrats in Congress would be the defacto leaders of the nation.

Not that I expect Trump to last much longer...I'm sure the GOP is hard at work this very moment on plans to deflate that big bag of wind. Trump as President is the very last thing in the world they want and he's stealing way too much attention from the stable of broken-down old plugs, er Presidential hopefuls.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> On thinking about it, I hope Trump does get on the GOP debate stage--and that he really does blow the other hopefuls out of the water to win the primary.
> 
> Really.
> 
> Think about it--if that were to happen he wouldn't have a hope in hell of winning the election. Perfect.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Trump won't be able to debate coherently! All he'll be able to talk about are those darned Mexicans.


No, all he ever thinks about is himself, and that's what he'll talk about. What a great businessman he is, how wealthy he is, how he's outsmarted everyone he's dealt with.

He'll mention the Mexicans, but that's just to show how great he is compared to them.

I hope, I hope, I hope he wins.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh hell, I really wouldn't mind if the Donald DID become POTUS, with that hair perhaps occupying the VP slot. He'd self-destruct in his first thirty seconds of office, the Republicans in Congress would be cowering in the basement against the torches and pitchforks of an outraged John Q. Public, and the Democrats in Congress would be the defacto leaders of the nation.
> 
> Not that I expect Trump to last much longer...I'm sure the GOP is hard at work this very moment on plans to deflate that big bag of wind. Trump as President is the very last thing in the world they want and he's stealing way too much attention from the stable of broken-down old plugs, er Presidential hopefuls.


The hair would probably be First Lady.

You wouldn't have heard of Harold Stassen (or maybe you would, from reading history). He was the GOP's perennial, always prepared to take on the presidency, though he never got the nomination. These guys make him look like a great statesman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Stassen#Presidential_candidate


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## Catarry (Apr 10, 2012)

What puzzles me is how much support a Trump candidacy seems to have. My sister is a tea party republican and was over the moon when Trump announced.
I hear a broad stream of support for him, but I sure hope it isn't too deep or too long-lasting. 
We are really ripe for demagoguery, and he shovels a random assortment of strong stuff that too many folks find compelling.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks Shirley. Finally someone is understanding and posting messages in a form that are easy for us Aussies to read without having to stand on our heads. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Glad your doctor's appointments were without major upsets. Smile because we are all smiling with you.


I thought it might be a nice break for those "Down under".

Chuckle - we know you are upside down









joke, joke, joke!

I just re discovered this emoticon. Rather like it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Catarry said:


> What puzzles me is how much support a Trump candidacy seems to have. My sister is a tea party republican and was over the moon when Trump announced.
> I hear a broad stream of support for him, but I sure hope it isn't too deep or too long-lasting.
> We are really ripe for demagoguery, and he shovels a random assortment of strong stuff that too many folks find compelling.


I'm wondering whether Trump is saying the ugly things SOME republicans would like to say themselves but who don't want to reveal just how bigoted and hateful they really are.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The hair would probably be First Lady.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'm wondering whether Trump is saying the ugly things SOME republicans would like to say themselves but who don't want to reveal just how bigoted and hateful they really are.


I think you're right, Green. Sure would account for his inexplicably rising popularity.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Catarry said:


> What puzzles me is how much support a Trump candidacy seems to have. My sister is a tea party republican and was over the moon when Trump announced.
> I hear a broad stream of support for him, but I sure hope it isn't too deep or too long-lasting.
> We are really ripe for demagoguery, and he shovels a random assortment of strong stuff that too many folks find compelling.


Catarry
I am sure that the initial supporters are all there is and we at least get to see his idiocy and those who hang onto the Clown. We also learn a lot about the majority and I am pleased with what I see and hear from it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Check out the following thread.

Needless to say I and many others are NOT happy with Joey's topic. I got drawn into letting her know.

grrrrrr.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-347518-1.html


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No, all he ever thinks about is himself, and that's what he'll talk about. What a great businessman he is, how wealthy he is, how he's outsmarted everyone he's dealt with.
> 
> He'll mention the Mexicans, but that's just to show how great he is compared to them.
> 
> I hope, I hope, I hope he wins.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The hair would probably be First Lady.
> 
> You wouldn't have heard of Harold Stassen (or maybe you would, from reading history). He was the GOP's perennial, always prepared to take on the presidency, though he never got the nomination. These guys make him look like a great statesman.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Stassen#Presidential_candidate


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I'm wondering whether Trump is saying the ugly things SOME republicans would like to say themselves but who don't want to reveal just how bigoted and hateful they really are.


Exactly. People are intrigued and compelled by this man because he is so glaringly outside the mold. The other thing that comes to mind is his appeal would cover an incredibly large proportion of the population whose belief's are aligned with his.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know about Marilyn, but standing up is not something I do willingly.:mrgreen:


After two days on the road to visit DH's brother who is recovering from heart surgery, 6 hours each way, I can stand for a while.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Maybe they should block Trump's access to Twitter.



susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee--let the fun begin! From AP:
> 
> As Republican infighting grows, donors call for calm
> 
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Check out the following thread.
> 
> Needless to say I and many others are NOT happy with Joey's topic. I got drawn into letting her know.
> 
> ...


Whatever the topic was, you are not the only one to dislike it. It has been deleted.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Maybe they should block Trump's access to Twitter.


Did you see that Twitter feud he had with the writer of a sitcom? The other guy would make up some very clever insult, and Trump's witty comeback would be "You're a real loser" or "so pathetic and easy" or "a lightweight moron."

No wonder the RWNJ love Trump. He's as funny as they are.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/06/1399563/-Donald-Trump-gets-into-Twitter-war-with-Modern-Family-writer-is-obliterated


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Whatever the topic was, you are not the only one to dislike it. It has been deleted.


It was very creepy. It had to do with Joey's favorite topic, and used a word you don't usually see on KP, though it was biblical, derived from one of the cities of the plains.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

She's popped up on the thread started by Scott, who was upset by the gay haters. True to form.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you see that Twitter feud he had with the writer of a sitcom? The other guy would make up some very clever insult, and Trump's witty comeback would be "You're a real loser" or "so pathetic and easy" or "a lightweight moron."
> 
> No wonder the RWNJ love Trump. He's as funny as they are.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/06/1399563/-Donald-Trump-gets-into-Twitter-war-with-Modern-Family-writer-is-obliterated


Poor Purl
thank you for the site. Donald's vocabulary and sound bites never change.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It was very creepy. It had to do with Joey's favorite topic, and used a word you don't usually see on KP, though it was biblical, derived from one of the cities of the plains.


No! Tell me no! The S-d-m thread is gone??????? Mrs. Somma must have garnered tons of complaints. Easy come, easier go.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

SQM said:


> No! Tell me no! The S-d-m thread is gone??????? Mrs. Somma must have garnered tons of complaints. Easy come, easier go.


Unfortunately, the perpetrator is still among us. It's sodomy, by the way. She had no qualms about writing the whole word.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Unfortunately, the perpetrator is still among us. It's sodomy, by the way. She had no qualms about writing the whole word.


And neither shall I:

Sodomy, sodomy, sodomy
That ol' Sod will get the best of me.
But in a flash I am on my back
So his P%$#k made contact with my knee.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

SQM said:


> And neither shall I:
> 
> Sodomy, sodomy, sodomy
> That ol' Sod will get the best of me.
> ...


Hahahahahaha!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

And she now has a thread titled Free Speech and is upset about her sod....thread being removed


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> No! Tell me no! The S-d-m thread is gone??????? Mrs. Somma must have garnered tons of complaints. Easy come, easier go.


So sorry. You know I always try to do what you want, but this time I can't.

Tons of complaints, yes, but when her friends stopped by, they started calling other people (the ones who don't hate gays) "haters."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> And neither shall I:
> 
> Sodomy, sodomy, sodomy
> That ol' Sod will get the best of me.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> And she now has a thread titled Free Speech and is upset about her sod....thread being removed


Her idea of free speech includes the freedom to proselytize, even when it's a military officer trying to convert someone of lower rank.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So sorry. You know I always try to do what you want, but this time I can't.
> 
> Tons of complaints, yes, but when her friends stopped by, they started calling other people (the ones who don't hate gays) "haters."


Speaking of her friends, yes, they are trashing all liberals as haters and are defending Joey completely.

Evidently none of them actually read the comments on that thread, starting with page 1; until Joey jumped in, they were almost ALL supportive and celebratory of the original poster and even those who are against gay marriage were polite.

Enter Joey, who has made it a habit of bashing gays and gay marriage at EVERY opportunity.

Enter Joey, who has been asked repeatedly to stop preaching her brand of gospel in places where she KNOWS the message will be rejected.

Enter Joey, who now plays the victim.

I used to work with someone a lot like Joey. A person who would invariably turn any conversation to her version of god and who would not hesitate to ask, "don't you KNOW you're going to hell???" The first, second and third time, I was polite as I walked away. After that, I told her that I found such speech offensive. She continued. She interrupted polite, congenial conversations to interject her vile religion. She soon made herself into the most hated person in the company. Legally, what she was doing was workplace harassment and HR finally had to get involved.

Yes, Joey has every right to speak her mind, no matter how twisted and evil others may think her speech. She can also expect to be rejected and for people to respond with anger to being told how evil and sinful they are IN HER OPINION. It's called consequences and she knows exactly what will happen, yet she seeks out opportunities to tell others how evil they are.

She's no victim.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Speaking of her friends, yes, they are trashing all liberals as haters and are defending Joey completely.
> 
> Evidently none of them actually read the comments on that thread, starting with page 1; until Joey jumped in, they were almost ALL supportive and celebratory of the original poster and even those who are against gay marriage were polite.
> 
> ...


==========================
My sense of humor seems to have left me.

I am going to take some time off. I know I will be considered a poor sport or whatever, but to me that word was a word used to stick pins in GLBT people.

It is the wrong time to think it is funny. Everyone knows exactly what it means and I don't think people who are 
celebrating freedom to marry the person they love find it 
funny - maybe in a month or two it might be more hilarious.

It is a word I have always thought was used by those who judged GLBt people.

Anyway I will be back but I just feel very strongly about the use of it at all. I am pleased that the previous thread was removed. I still find it offensive to use at this time when great change occurred for them just a week or so again.

I just don't see it as being very funny. I just feel that anything that might cause frustration and anger for those who finally have freedoms we all have, should be avoided. jmo.

see you all later.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

If you're angry about my use of that word, I'm sorry. I don't think it's worth being coy about the foul language that people that use. Surely it needs to be exposed? Again, I apologise if you were offended by me.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am sorry also 1234 if you are upset. But the word is done by straight couples . It is a human action.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Unfortunately, the perpetrator is still among us. It's sodomy, by the way. She had no qualms about writing the whole word.


I am surprised that she is still here after all of the complaints to Admin about her. 
One word: disgusting.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am surprised that she is still here after all of the complaints to Admin about her.
> One word: disgusting.


She can't help herself. She has OCD.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> She can't help herself. She has OCD.


Or a very dirty mind....


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Or a very dirty mind.....


Maybe both.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> And neither shall I:
> 
> Sodomy, sodomy, sodomy
> That ol' Sod will get the best of me.
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: " P%$#k" I love it!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

I think that people who protest the most loudly are likely to actually be fond of what they're protesting about. Think the film 'American Beauty.' Just saying.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I think that people who protest the most loudly are likely to actually be fond of what they're protesting about. Think the film 'American Beauty.' Just saying.


You and old Will: "The lady doth protest too much."


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You and old Will: "The lady doth protest too much."


I just told Janeway-over-the-top that she's an idiot on joeys free speech thread. Such a hoot of a read!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I just told Janeway-over-the-top that she's an idiot on joeys free speech thread. Such a hoot of a read!


Always gets me running back to my comfort zone where people speak and act like adults.

When people with whom many of us have fundamental differences express their opinions as opinions, use adult language and reasoning, and don't act like the mean girls who sneak you a noogie, I will listen. There are even times where I see the point and find touchstones where we agree.

But start acting like a child and I remove myself to grown up land after I tell the person to grow up. Sometimes in my own childish way by using language that may be over their heads.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I just told Janeway-over-the-top that she's an idiot on joeys free speech thread. Such a hoot of a read!


Please take care because if she is ever called to task her usual response is that you are only slamming her on racial grounds.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I think that people who protest the most loudly are likely to actually be fond of what they're protesting about. Think the film 'American Beauty.' Just saying.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You and old Will: "The lady doth protest too much."


The lady obviously believes in the adage, 'the more noise you make, the more you are hiding. The louder you shout, the more you are covering up'. Diversionary tactics in action.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Always gets me running back to my comfort zone where people speak and act like adults.
> 
> When people with whom many of us have fundamental differences express their opinions as opinions, use adult language and reasoning, and don't act like the mean girls who sneak you a noogie, I will listen. There are even times where I see the point and find touchstones where we agree.
> 
> But start acting like a child and I remove myself to grown up land after I tell the person to grow up. Sometimes in my own childish way by using language that may be over their heads.


I think your initial post in response to joey went straight over her head Marilyn. Sigh.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Please take care because if she is ever called to task her usual response is that you are only slamming her on racial grounds.


She's responded that she reported me. Same old.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The lady obviously believes in the adage, 'the more noise you make, the more you are hiding. The louder you shout, the more you are covering up'. Diversionary tactics in action.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


That is an excellent representation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> She's responded that she reported me. Same old.


She's forever complaining that people call her a bigot, or make fun of her because of her Indian ancestry, but I've never seen it happen. She should be called on to prove her claims or told to shut up.

Or called an idiot, for which I thank you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> She's responded that she reported me. Same old.


Not to worry -- She threatened she would report me and likely did constantly for about a year. She has been very ill, and will never change how she talks about liberals and the fact that we do nothing but insult her because she is First Nations. I have never once read a post where anyone 
attacked her about her Indian heritage, however. She accused me of it over and over. I have a small amount of Indian blood myself Great great or Great Great Great Grandmother was plains indian (- one of the Crowfoot tribes (Montana and Alberta) (Sarcee)- I found out in papers we found when my Grand mother died. It didn't give much information.

and I would not use it as a weapon against anyone.

I would be careful though as a squeeky wheel gets lot of attention as I think lots of people believe her.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, and green party candidate Jill Stein have pledged to not accept campaign money from gas, oil, and coal companies.

A different kind of campaign reform.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Indian? Native American or Asian Indian? Someone playing the race card as some of the comments indicated should be ashamed of herself. To exploit an honorable ancestry, either one, is an insult to one's ancestors. People who are proud of their ancestry hold their heads high and don't embarrass the spirits of their ancestors by being whinging wusses.



Poor Purl said:


> She's forever complaining that people call her a bigot, or make fun of her because of her Indian ancestry, but I've never seen it happen. She should be called on to prove her claims or told to shut up.
> 
> Or called an idiot, for which I thank you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Indian? Native American or Asian Indian? Someone playing the race card as some of the comments indicated should be ashamed of herself. To exploit an honorable ancestry, either one, is an insult to one's ancestors. People who are proud of their ancestry hold their heads high and don't embarrass the spirits of their ancestors by being whinging wusses.


Native American. I should have been clearer. But I agree. She doesn't honor her ancestry in other ways. She said that they (and she, I think) were prevented from worshiping in their traditional way and forced to go to a Christian church. Her response, when she was old enough (and the laws had changed), was to become a Christian.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Indian? Native American or Asian Indian? Someone playing the race card as some of the comments indicated should be ashamed of herself. To exploit an honorable ancestry, either one, is an insult to one's ancestors. People who are proud of their ancestry hold their heads high and don't embarrass the spirits of their ancestors by being whinging wusses.



Poor Purl said:


> She's forever complaining that people call her a bigot, or make fun of her because of her Indian ancestry, but I've never seen it happen. She should be called on to prove her claims or told to shut up.
> 
> Or called an idiot, for which I thank you.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She's forever complaining that people call her a bigot, or make fun of her because of her Indian ancestry, but I've never seen it happen. She should be called on to prove her claims or told to shut up.
> 
> Or called an idiot, for which I thank you.


 :XD: If it looks like a duck...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: If it looks like a duck...


Aflac! or







?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Aflac! or
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Thufferin' Thuccotash"


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Has everyone heard the news about the proposed bill by Congresswoman Barbara Lee to over turn the Hyde Ammendment on federal funding for abortion? 72 Congressional representatives have signed on as co sponsors. It is titled the Each Woman Act.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Has everyone heard the news about the proposed bill by Congresswoman Barbara Lee to over turn the Hyde Ammendment on federal funding for abortion? 72 Congressional representatives have signed on as co sponsors. It is titled the Each Woman Act.


Yes, but I don't think it will go anywhere. PUBLIC funding for abortion? The fundies will go berserk.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I agree for the short run, but I heard Barbara Lee on Democracy Now this morning and neither she nor the sponsors believe it will happen soon. So I think this is a bill that could go the long distance and figure we should all lobby our own representatives and encourage friends in conservative areas to lobby their representatives. 

This is important for poor women and women that receive reproductive services from the federal government such as military women, federal non military, Peace Corps etc.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Aflac! or
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love, love, love Daffy Duck!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes, but I don't think it will go anywhere. PUBLIC funding for abortion? The fundies will go berserk.


Is there public funding for Viagra or Cialis prescriptions? If our taxes pay for that, then there would need to be equity. Or stop paying for the old goats' happy times meds.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Has everyone heard the news about the proposed bill by Congresswoman Barbara Lee to over turn the Hyde Ammendment on federal funding for abortion? 72 Congressional representatives have signed on as co sponsors. It is titled the Each Woman Act.


peacegoddess
that would be one of the greatest accomplishments of Law Makers.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> that would be one of the greatest accomplishments of Law Makers.


In for the long haul. I love Barbara Lee. The co sponsors are not all female which is great.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Is there public funding for Viagra or Cialis prescriptions? If our taxes pay for that, then there would need to be equity. Or stop paying for the old goats' happy times meds.


Congress is full of old goats. That payment will never stop.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Congress is full of old goats. That payment will never stop.


Poor Purl
got that right.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

It looks as though I have a lot of catching up to do here. In the meantime we are getting Jonathan connected to the services he has been needing. And tomorrow we go mailbox shopping.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am sorry also 1234 if you are upset. But the word is done by straight couples . It is a human action.


it is timing and the humor that upsets me sqm.

I am well aware of exactly what it means. I just think it would make them feel it is attack by seeing it used it would be nice if those who have had their relationships approved as legal were given a bit of time to celebrate - It is not a word I have seen used here that I can remember. I just feel it isn't necessary to use it right now. It was deliberately used by Joey and no one will ever convince me it wasn't deliberate. It seems it would be a good time to not use it as it was used as a slam and we all know it.

I realize I have a different humor than some of you. That is fine but I felt badly when I saw the use of the word on our threada month from now it might be different.

I know I am a minority of one -- that is fine. I still feel it was unnecessary.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Congress is full of old goats. That payment will never stop.


There's an aphrodisiac called 'Goats Weed.' Makes me wonder.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Camacho said:


> It looks as though I have a lot of catching up to do here. In the meantime we are getting Jonathan connected to the services he has been needing. And tomorrow we go mailbox shopping.


Camacho
a pleasure to read something positive.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> it is timing and the humor that upsets me sqm.
> 
> I am well aware of exactly what it means. I just think it would make them feel it is attack by seeing it used it would be nice if those who have had their relationships approved as legal were given a bit of time to celebrate - It is not a word I have seen used here that I can remember. I just feel it isn't necessary to use it right now. It was deliberately used by Joey and no one will ever convince me it wasn't deliberate. It seems it would be a good time to not use it as it was used as a slam and we all know it.
> 
> ...


I seriously don't think they're smart enough to know the word would be a slam Designer. Like with everything else in their narrow little world, they justify everything using religion. Ho Hum.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I seriously don't think they're smart enough to know the word would be a slam Designer. Like with everything else in their narrow little world, they justify everything using religion. Ho Hum.


I am guess we will never know for sure. I still feel that it was deliberately used by the poster.

It is rather interesting as I doubt I have ever read the word on these threads until a few days after the law was passed.

I am not worrying about it. I know I am a minority and that is perfectly okay.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Folks, do you as well wonder why the Donald has the need to point out that he has a friend here and there? Funny today in Las Vegas, he called some guy his friend whom he never had any contact with before. Amazing isn't he.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> There's an aphrodisiac called 'Goats Weed.' Makes me wonder.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Folks, do you as well wonder why the Donald has the need to point out that he has a friend here and there? Funny today in Las Vegas, he called some guy his friend whom he never had any contact with before. Amazing isn't he.


Amazingly ridiculous.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Amazingly ridiculous.


DGreen
I am getting the feeling that Trump's Brand was hitting a low and he thought that getting into the race will give his enterprise a lift. He is just toooooooo eager mentioning his wealth. He is trying to impress someone and it certainly is not the Republicans. He surely is making them suffer right now. No better friend the Democrats can have. He is paralyzing the GOP and it will take them some time to recover if they are lucky and he would fade rather soon. If he stays in, their problem cannot be solved. It is amazing how weak the other Candidates are. No-one dares to take the Donald on. Of course the media thinks that is smart. Not my evaluation. The longer he stays in, the more damage he does to the Party. It is so easy to pin him to the wall and shorten his stature. Would love to have him be the GOP Nominee however. What fun any of the Democrats could have with him.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

KeiPeeiDee said:


> No I hadn't yet. I will be looking it up.
> 
> Regardless of one's position on abortion, the bottom line is that as long as it's still legal, this Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have a pressing question to ask about Trump. I cannot figure out his hair. In what direction does he comb it on top?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

KeiPeeiDee said:


>


Brilliant!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

KeiPeeiDee said:


>


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Letterman returns to deliver Top 10 things about the Donald.

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-david-letterman-deliver-donald-trump-themed-top-ten-list-20150711#ixzz3faY3W5s9


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Letterman returns to deliver Top 10 things about the Donald.
> 
> http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-david-letterman-deliver-donald-trump-themed-top-ten-list-20150711#ixzz3faY3W5s9


What a hoot! Letterman's Top 10 was my favourite part of his show.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

KeiPeeiDee said:


>


All is forgiven. Come back home.

Now I can rest peacefully with this puzzle solved.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I just heard that Trump is considering running as an Independent.

Thoughts about that????


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

The Simpsons did a spoof a few days back about Trump's hair. Here is the link--go to the bottom of the page for the video.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...poons-donald-trump-in-this-hair-raising-trip/


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I just heard that Trump is considering running as an Independent.
> 
> Thoughts about that????


Designer1234
Most likely Reince Pribus gave him some advise and he does not like it. He will be even more entertaining if he goes independent. Sounds like he is making the "rounds" again. He has been in every Party.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> All is forgiven. Come back home.
> 
> Now I can rest peacefully with this puzzle solved.


SQM
and women think they have bad hair days. It is the Donald's biggest worry.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> and women think they have bad hair days. It is the Donald's biggest worry.


What, him worry? He does this on purpose. He thinks it looks better than his natural (if anything about him is natural) head.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

From the publisher of two North Dakota newspapers:

*Letter: High court goes gay; GOP frets*

Whew! Man, a guy takes a week off and look what happens.

Im still sorting this out. The gist, I guess, is that America now has gay health care. I havent reviewed the fine print but, as I understand it, you may now marry the doctor of your choice.
Many Republicans are outraged, enraged and deranged by the way nine Druids in Washington circumvented the Constitution. Just like that time they pitched pennies in the hallway to decide the winner of the 2000 presidential election.

You dont have to be a constitutional scholar to know how wrong it was to make a decision in that manner. These things should be decided by a field goal in the waning seconds of overtime. Or that rock/paper/scissors thing.

Bobby Jindal, one of 666 Republicans seeking the nomination for president, said, If we want to save some money, lets just get rid of the court. Presumably after conservatives dump the EPA, IRS and other troublesome letters of the alphabet.

Ted Cruz called it, the darkest 24 hours in our nations history. The. Darkest. Day. Ever. Worse than Pearl Harbor, 9/11, JFKs assassination, or the day the Baha Men released Who Let the Dogs Out?

Actually, it was a toss-up until they pulled The Dukes of Hazzard off television. Losing Daisy Duke pretty much sealed the deal. Clear evidence of the gayification of America.

Even our state lawmakers in North Dakota had an opinion. Rep. Dwight Kiefert, R-Valley City, weighed in with a bunch of misspelled words on Twizzler. Kiefert, you may recall, famously blocked an Islamic prayer at the state Capitol last session.

If a gay Muslim ever comes in to do the invocation, Kieferts head will explode. I doubt anyone will be hurt, though. Its not like it will be an M-80 going off. We can only pray it doesnt mess up the brass railing.

Mike Huckabee, who is in the 16th of his 15 minutes, said the Supreme Court cannot overrule God. The Lord God in Heaven Above has yet to hold a press conference on the matter, although Fox News has set aside emergency airtime and Steve Doocy continues to speak in tongues.

Despite the ruling forcing all Americans to be gay-married, the good news is the country survived Independence Day without any terrorist attacks  a testament to the vigilance of Fox News, which warned daily of imminent doom. Between commercials, of course. If I were marketing Depends, Id go all in on Fox News because when all those old white people watch, they crap their pants.

Amid the chaos of marriage equality, more Americans guaranteed health care, falling unemployment, the shrinking deficit, Wall Street at record highs, and the Minnesota Twins five games over .500, there are even more serious issues facing us.

If you watch Fox, you know an Oregon bakery, specializing strictly in heterosexual cakes, has been ordered to pay $135,000 in damages to a lesbian couple after refusing to bake their wedding cake.

I dont know how the couple wanted the cake decorated, but I imagine it was something right out of Caligula.

A tip o the hat to Fox News for alerting us to the acute shortage of gay bakeries in America. This is a clear result of outsourcing, brought on by bad trade deals. All I can say is, if Donald Trump wants to win this election, he will at least allow gay Mexican bakers into the country. Little Debbie cant do it all.

I dont blame Republicans for being upset. If Americans no longer have the freedom to discriminate on the basis of their personal beliefs, well, what is this world coming to? Its not like this is a Woolworths lunch counter in 1960.

Still, I see a silver lining in the apocalyptic cloud. With American ingenuity and the entrepreneurial spirit, we can turn lemons into ... Mikes Hard Lemonade and get really plastered. No! No! Thats not it, although thats not a bad idea.

With mandated gay marriage, someone is going to make a killing on gay baking, just like some folks in Colorado are cleaning up on gay marijuana. My advice is to invest big in gay flour, gay eggs and gay frosting  mostly pastels, I suppose.

This could be bigger than the Depends thing. Except from a marketing standpoint, I wouldnt advertise gay cakes on Fox.

Gretchen Carlson would have a cow, which would be even more evidence of the liberal stranglehold on this country.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What, him worry? He does this on purpose. He thinks it looks better than his natural (if anything about him is natural) head.


Poor Purl
thank you for the new Candidate. Sure an improvement over what is out there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> thank you for the new Candidate. Sure an improvement over what is out there.


At least his hair remains stuck to his head.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

And drat, when they make Depends in pink, blue, and lavender, they won't even be able to depend on Depends!



Poor Purl said:


> From the publisher of two North Dakota newspapers:
> 
> *Letter: High court goes gay; GOP frets*
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And drat, when they make Depends in pink, blue, and lavender, they won't even be able to depend on Depends!


Drat, indeed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Folks, one thing is for sure and that is that the Donald's Hairdo will not become a fashion item for others. The Trumpeter will have that fashion "thing" all to himself and it isn't pleasant to view.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I am delighted that we together with other Nations are trying to have a working relationship with Iran. The people of Iran love the Americans and in time their Government will become more friendly as well. 
The alternative to the deal is no deal and that should be unacceptable for everyone. We know however that had GW made that deal the GOP would be supportive but their bigotry and racism is getting in the way once again I am sure. Now we need Netanyahu to shut up since he is sitting over several hundred nuclear weapons. He makes me think over and over again that he is really looking for a major conflict or he would keep it zipped.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> I am delighted that we together with other Nations are trying to have a working relationship with Iran. The people of Iran love the Americans and in time their Government will become more friendly as well.
> The alternative to the deal is no deal and that should be unacceptable for everyone. We know however that had GW made that deal the GOP would be supportive but their bigotry and racism is getting in the way once again I am sure. Now we need Netanyahu to shut up since he is sitting over several hundred nuclear weapons. He makes me think over and over again that he is really looking for a major conflict or he would keep it zipped.


The President looked much relieved when he made the announcement. It seems to have gone extremely well. Let's hope that Iran abides.

Huck, have you seen the thread regarding open carry of guns? There are photos showing people walking around Walmart or somewhere wearing rifles for crying out loud. Is that true?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> The President looked much relieved when he made the announcement. It seems to have gone extremely well. Let's hope that Iran abides.
> 
> Huck, have you seen the thread regarding open carry of guns? There are photos showing people walking around Walmart or somewhere wearing rifles for crying out loud. Is that true?


Wombatnomore
I know that some Nuts showed up at some Walmart Store with Guns. Perhaps it takes just that idiocy to get some strict gun laws implemented. When people refuse to do business with stores who allow that kind of behavior, it will definitely affect their business and they then will take action and put pressure on Politicians. Money always talks.


----------



## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

CNN said today that it looked 'very positive.' The restrictions (if that's the word), will last 25 yrs. It's time to include Iran in the discussions.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mmorris said:


> CNN said today that it looked 'very positive.' The restrictions (if that's the word), will last 25 yrs. It's time to include Iran in the discussions.


mmorris
It is time to have diplomatic connections with all countries. If the population sees that other countries mean well, they eventually will push their government into changes. It's a small World after all.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> The President looked much relieved when he made the announcement. It seems to have gone extremely well. Let's hope that Iran abides.
> 
> Huck, have you seen the thread regarding open carry of guns? There are photos showing people walking around Walmart or somewhere wearing rifles for crying out loud. Is that true?


Did you see Bob Katter's son in law on the 7.30 report last night. He wants to import A new seven-round shotgun, and have it available for people with a category A licence. It's a powerful weapon that fires and reloads quickly. It can fire eight shots in as many seconds, using a firing mechanism straight from the Wild West.

They guns should be restricted to a C or D licence holders. They are just as dangerous as a pump action shotgun. But then you may also share my opinion of Bob Katter.

The transcript is available at 
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4273756.htm


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> The President looked much relieved when he made the announcement. It seems to have gone extremely well. Let's hope that Iran abides.
> 
> Huck, have you seen the thread regarding open carry of guns? There are photos showing people walking around Walmart or somewhere wearing rifles for crying out loud. Is that true?


I have missed this thread, the 'thread regarding open carry of guns', could you post a link please? Thank you.


----------



## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

My hair dresser carries a gun in her hand bag; She says that 'she'll protect herself no matter what.' Don't know if she's ever heard of 'concealing a weapon.' :thumbdown:


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> I know that some Nuts showed up at some Walmart Store with Guns. Perhaps it takes just that idiocy to get some strict gun laws implemented. When people refuse to do business with stores who allow that kind of behavior, it will definitely affect their business and they then will take action and put pressure on Politicians. Money always talks.


Amazing--and I bet they won't be shot either. Unlike that poor black guy last fall who was shot and killed at a Walmart simply for picking up and carrying a _toy_ gun in the store.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/top-abortionist-admits-selling-babies-body-parts/Top abortionist confesses: I sell dead babies
Undercover video sends shockwaves across social media
Published: 6 hours ago

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author-image Leo Hohmann About | Email | Archive
Leo Hohmann is a news editor for WND. He has been a reporter and editor at several suburban newspapers in the Atlanta and Charlotte, North Carolina, areas and also served as managing editor of Triangle Business Journal in Raleigh, North Carolina.

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An undercover video released today shows Planned Parenthoods senior director of medical services, Dr. Deborah Nucatola, describing how her organization sells the body parts of aborted unborn children and admitting she uses partial-birth abortions  a felony punishable by imprisonment  to harvest intact body parts.

In the video released by the Center for Medical Progress, Nucatola is at a business lunch with a man and a woman posing as buyers from a human biologics company. As head of Planned Parenthood Federation of Americas Medical Services division, Nucatola has overseen medical practice at all PP clinics since 2009. She also trains new abortion doctors and performs abortions herself at Planned Parenthood Los Angeles up to 24 weeks, Life News reports.

The commercial trafficking in any kind of human body parts is a federal crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison, a $50o,000 fine, or both.

image: http://www.wnd.com/files/2015/07/Deborah_Nucatola-215x221.jpg
Dr. Deborah Nucatola is a top medical official overseeing abortions with Planned Parenthood.

Dr. Deborah Nucatola is a top medical official overseeing abortions with Planned Parenthood.

Nucatola admits on hidden camera that Planned Parenthood charges per-specimen for baby body parts, uses illegal partial-birth abortion procedures in order to get salable parts, and is aware of their own liability for doing so and takes steps to cover it up.

Nucatola described how abortion procedures are altered not for the safety of women but to get the most marketable body parts, including intact livers, hearts, and heads, which are highly sought by those who procure human body tissue for research.

In the video, she speaks in detail about how she meticulously crushes above and below the head to destroy the baby while leaving its head intact. Nucatola said she huddles with her staff in the morning to go over which body parts are requested by buyers and then comes up with a game plan to harvest those organs from the unborn babies that will be aborted that day.

SIGN THE PETITION! Congress Must Investigate Planned Parenthood for Selling Aborted Baby Parts

The buyers ask Nucatola, How much of a difference can that actually make, if you know kind of whats expected, or what we need?

It makes a huge difference, Nucatola replies while casually eating and drinking in what appears to be a restaurant or cafeteria. Id say a lot of people want liver. And for that reason, most providers will do this case under ultrasound guidance, so theyll know where theyre putting their forceps. The kind of rate-limiting step of the procedure is calvarium. Calvarium (the head) is basically the biggest part.

Weve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so Im not gonna crush that part, Im gonna basically crush below, Im gonna crush above, and Im gonna see if I can get it all intact.

She goes on to explain to the undercover buyer that people want lower extremities too, which, thats simple. I mean thats easy. I dont know what theyre doing with it, I guess they want muscle.

Too shocking for some to believe

The video has been going viral on social media today.

Abortionist Deborah Hannibal Nucatola swills her chianti while talking about selling baby parts, tweeted actress Patricia Heaton.

Others posted that they could not believe the story, that it had to be a hoax.

But those who follow the abortion industry say they could only wish it were not true. While the cavalier attitude and details coming out of Nucatolas mouth are shocking, they say its been known for years that this type of grisly merchandising of human body parts was going on inside abortion factories.

Its all lining up, said Alveda King, the niece of former civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and head of outreach for Priests for Life. The dots are actually being connected. Remember my Three Headed Monster Report? There is so much that is hidden. Its time to tell the truth.

King describes the Three Headed Monster as an unholy, diabolical population-control scheme that uses racism, sexual perversion (homosexuality, fornication and adultery), and reproductive genocide in what amounts to a war against God.

The founder of Planned Parenthoood, Margaret Sanger, was one of the earliest proponents of eugenics as a means of reducing the population of blacks and others she considered less desirable.

Father Frank Pavone, national director of Priests for Life, is calling on Americans and their religious leaders to pay close attention, today and in the coming weeks, to the new evidence that Planned Parenthood is involved in the illegal trafficking of human body parts.

I have been involved for decades in the effort to expose the evidence that the abortion industry sells the body parts of the babies it kills, Pavone said. And I welcome this new evidence provided by David Daleiden and the Center for Medical Progress.

He said the undercover videos and documentation show how people at the highest levels of Planned Parenthood are negotiating the sale of body parts, and adjusting the way they perform abortions so that the organs are more accessible.

Pavone collaborates with Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics, who first exposed the sale of baby body parts some 15 years ago, and with Troy Newman of Operation Rescue, who has exposed many criminal activities that occur in abortion clinics.

We have on our website, BabyBodyParts.com, the images of some of the order forms that were discovered back then  forms that ask that eyes, livers, brains, legs and other body parts be shipped on wet ice to the researchers who want them, Pavone said.

WND contacted Dr. Deborah Nucatola seeking comment but she did not immediately respond.

Planned Parenthood responds to critics

Planned Parenthood issued a statement saying Nucatola was only talking about selling tissue and downplayed the video.

In health care, patients sometimes want to donate tissue to scientific research that can help lead to medical breakthroughs, treatments and cures for serious diseases, PP spokesman Eric Ferraro said. Women at Planned Parenthood who have abortions are no different. At several of our health centers, we help patients who want to donate tissue for scientific research, and we do this just like every other high-quality health care provider does  with full, appropriate consent from patients and under the highest ethical and legal standards. There is no financial benefit for tissue donation for either the patient or Planned Parenthood. In some instances, actual costs, such as the cost to transport tissue to leading research centers, are reimbursed, which is standard across the medical field.

Ferraro then went on the attack against the videos producer, which he chastised for trying to jeopardize Planned Parenthoods lifesaving work.

A well-funded group established for the purpose of damaging Planned Parenthoods mission and services has promoted a heavily edited, secretly recorded videotape that falsely portrays Planned Parenthoods participation in tissue donation programs that support lifesaving scientific research, he said.

Call on Congress to intervene

This activity violates state and federal laws that prohibit the sale of human body parts, he said.

This new evidence shows that Planned Parenthood is still using the partial-birth abortion procedure, which has also been banned by law at the state and federal level.

We therefore call on Congress to investigate this activity and to stop federal funding of Planned Parenthood. Moreover, we call on the United States Senate to vote on and pass the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which will protect many of the babies whose bodies are being cut up and sold in this manner.

Operation Rescue released a statement today that said the results of a bold three-year undercover journalism investigation study, released today, expose a national scandal involving the widespread secret and illegal selling of aborted baby body parts for profit by Planned Parenthood, the nations largest abortion supplier.

In every step of the body parts trade, public money is involved.

A criminal conspiracy

Heading up the undercover investigation, known as the Human Capital Project, was David Daleiden of the the Center for Medical Progress.

Planned Parenthoods criminal conspiracy to make money off of aborted baby parts reaches to the very highest levels of their organization. Elected officials must listen to the public outcry for Planned Parenthood to be held accountable to the law and for our tax dollars to stop underwriting this barbaric abortion business, stated Daleiden.

Operation Rescue President Troy Newman serves on the Board of Daleidens Center for Medical Progress. During this investigation, Newman advised Daleiden, providing consultation services and material support.

Abortionists use ultrasound like a butcher uses scales to sell meat by the pound for profit, said Newman.

Jim Sedlak, vice president of American Life League, released the following statement about todays release of the under-cover video:

The sale of baby body parts and the committing of partial-birth abortion are both illegal throughout the United States. The fact that the senior director of medical services at the national office of Planned Parenthood freely admits to the organization being involved in both of these criminal activities should be cause for immediate action from all branches of the federal government. Planned Parenthood receives $528 million a year from taxpayers, and $400 million of that is from the Medicaid program. At the very least, Congress and the states should instantly suspend all Medicaid reimbursements to the organization.

In February 2000, Life Dynamics shocked the world when it revealed the outrageous sale of the parts of aborted babies in the United States. Life Dynamics had carefully collected a great deal of datamuch of it from a Planned Parenthood affiliate. However, Planned Parenthood rallied its political forces and made a sham of a Congressional hearing into the matter. As the situation faded away, most people thought Planned Parenthood had stopped selling baby body parts.

But, as todays announcement reveals, it simply went further underground and, if anything, became more brazen. In addition to the demand that the government suspend Medicaid reimbursements, American Life League calls on the members of Congress to immediately begin hearings and institute an investigation into Planned Parenthood. The organization must not be allowed to use its political muscle to continue to ignore the law. The purpose of Congressional action is to cut off every penny of taxpayer money to Planned Parenthoodforever!

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/top-abortionist-admits-selling-babies-body-parts/#pTjdO6hppsCCYEUz.99


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

mmorris said:


> My hair dresser carries a gun in her hand bag; She says that 'she'll protect herself no matter what.' Don't know if she's ever heard of 'concealing a weapon.' :thumbdown:


This reminds me of something that happened to a friend in high school. When we took geometry, we carried around all the necessary paraphernalia: compass, protractor, graph paper, different colored pencils. One night my friend was walking down a very empty street, and somebody grabbed her from behind, with his arm around her neck. She pulled out her compass and jabbed the needle part into his hand. He ran away from her.

I doubt that having a gun in her purse would have worked as well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This reminds me of something that happened to a friend in high school. When we took geometry, we carried around all the necessary paraphernalia: compass, protractor, graph paper, different colored pencils. One night my friend was walking down a very empty street, and somebody grabbed her from behind, with his arm around her neck. She pulled out her compass and jabbed the needle part into his hand. He ran away from her.
> 
> I doubt that having a gun in her purse would have worked as well.


Poor Purl
it would not have. It is extremely unlikely that a gun in one's pocket would protect them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/top-abortionist-admits-selling-babies-body-parts/Top abortionist confesses: I sell dead babies
> Undercover video sends shockwaves across social media


Not only do I not believe this, but frankly I can't believe you'd post something so disgusting.

ACORN was destroyed by doctored and faked videos, and now someone's trying it with Planned Parenthood. Is there any limit to what the right will do to get rid of everyone they don't like?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not only do I not believe this, but frankly I can't believe you'd post something so disgusting.
> 
> ACORN was destroyed by doctored and faked videos, and now someone's trying it with Planned Parenthood. Is there any limit to what the right will do to get rid of everyone they don't like?


It was a video from 2014 that has been doctored and the only sites carrying the video are right wing and religious. For years, mothers have been to have fetal tissue donated upon signing an approval form. The tissue is for research and for treating individuals. Would be nice if people researched the issue before blindly believing the crap.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not only do I not believe this, but frankly I can't believe you'd post something so disgusting.
> 
> ACORN was destroyed by doctored and faked videos, and now someone's trying it with Planned Parenthood. Is there any limit to what the right will do to get rid of everyone they don't like?


Poor Purl
It is another "performance" by the right. It is definitely NOT TRUE. They have no shame and do not worry about continuous lying either. How much I wish there as a Hell. No, there is no limit to what they will do. They would bomb us if they thought it would only kill us.
This should open the eyes of those among us who have believed that CB is a nice person. I very early on thought so as well but quickly saw her in a very different light. She is the Wolf in Sheep's clothing. May God have mercy on her.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I did not have the guts to watch the links. I just assumed that it would be a huge waste of my time. Plus I have been hurt by a certain somebody and so my healthy narcissism does not let me read some posts anymore.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> It was a video from 2014 that has been doctored and the only sites carrying the video are right wing and religious. For years, mothers have been to have fetal tissue donated upon signing an approval form. The tissue is for research and for treating individuals. Would be nice if people researched the issue before blindly believing the crap.


It would be, but the people who post this are delighted not to know what it's really about.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> It is another "performance" by the right. It is definitely NOT TRUE. They have no shame and do not worry about continuous lying either. How much I wish there as a Hell. No, there is no limit to what they will do. They would bomb us if they thought it would only kill us.
> This should open the eyes of those among us who have believed that CB is a nice person. I very early on thought so as well but quickly saw her in a very different light. She is the Wolf in Sheep's clothing. May God have mercy on her.


She's the one who said we were the devil's children (and I'm still using my devil avatar because of that). She has also tried to convert me, but the attempt was so silly she hadn't a chance in hell. So I never saw any niceness.

But to post something like that, as if it was a great discovery - all that talk about baby's parts. It's just not decent, and even worse because it's not true.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I did not have the guts to watch the links. I just assumed that it would be a huge waste of my time. Plus I have been hurt by a certain somebody and so my healthy narcissism does not let me read some posts anymore.


I didn't watch them either. In fact, I barely skimmed the posted material, just enough to see that it was garbages.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I didn't watch them either. In fact, I barely skimmed the posted material, just enough to see that it was garbages.


I think it was supposed to "shock and awe" us. Same old trash, different day!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think it was supposed to "shock and awe" us. Same old trash, different day!


Shock and awe didn't work too well in Iraq, but I have to admit I found it both shocking and awful.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, Friends.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night, Friends.


Good night, Cheeky. I'm about ready to call it a day, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

But first, I see that on the dark side of the moon they're all accepting the truth of that video and cursing Margaret Sanger.


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## Loistec (Jan 25, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But first, I see that on the dark side of the moon they're all accepting the truth of that video and cursing Margaret Sanger.


I just looked up Margaret Sanger, feminist and birth control advocate who started Planned Parenthood. Fascinating read, what a pioneering free thinker. I guess this is what has them gnashing their teeth:

In The Morality of Birth Control, a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the educated and informed class that regulated the size of their families, the intelligent and responsible who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the irresponsible and reckless people whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Sanger concludes there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I note that all the links and information are attributed to WND, which is described by Wiki as an extremely religiously conservative, very right wing, organization.

I personally would not accept any information from WND without corroboration from such sources as the Christian Science Monitor or a variety of traditional news sources. It appears to me to be the print equivalent of Fox News, a source of information which I find wildly biased and I do not respect. Nor do I read the pulp periodicals offered for sale at super market check outs.

The news source you cite is, in my opinion, as far biased to the radical and sometimes irrational right as was Pravda of the Stalin days biased to the Communist agenda.

You might find your time better spent reading _Interweave_ or _The Readers Digest_.

Thank you for making all of us on this thread fully aware of your particular bias and thus enabling us to dispassionately evaluate your opinions.



Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2015/07/top-abortionist-admits-selling-babies-body-parts/Top abortionist confesses: I sell dead babies
> Undercover video sends shockwaves across social media
> Published: 6 hours ago
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Loistec said:


> I just looked up Margaret Sanger, feminist and birth control advocate who started Planned Parenthood. Fascinating read, what a pioneering free thinker. I guess this is what has them gnashing their teeth:
> 
> In The Morality of Birth Control, a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the educated and informed class that regulated the size of their families, the intelligent and responsible who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the irresponsible and reckless people whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Sanger concludes there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.


Loistec
if she only could have achieved "stopped". This is the same group who never has any misgivings starting another War. Look at the alternative to the Iran Deal = War. Exactly what we need another War started by Republicans. Are they better than Isis? Another War is a terrorizing thought.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Loistec said:


> I just looked up Margaret Sanger, feminist and birth control advocate who started Planned Parenthood. Fascinating read, what a pioneering free thinker. I guess this is what has them gnashing their teeth:
> 
> In The Morality of Birth Control, a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the educated and informed class that regulated the size of their families, the intelligent and responsible who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the irresponsible and reckless people whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Sanger concludes there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.


I didn't know about the religious scruples part - this explains why fundamentalists curse her name.

She was also something of a racist, but I'm sure that's not why they hate her, though they bring it up every chance they get.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Loistec
> if she only could have achieved "stopped". This is the same group who never has any misgivings starting another War. Look at the alternative to the Iran Deal = War. Exactly what we need another War started by Republicans. Are they better than Isis? Another War is a terrorizing thought.


They think their way of executing people is somehow better than beheading. Beheading is a very quick kill, and practically painless (to the target, not the spectators), whereas the chemical deaths we use now can go on for hours, painfully, and even the electric chair wouldn't always kill the prisoner but was itself painful.

I don't see how they're better than ISIS, except that their god speaks English and ISIS's doesn't.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They think their way of executing people is somehow better than beheading. Beheading is a very quick kill, and practically painless (to the target, not the spectators), whereas the chemical deaths we use now can go on for hours, painfully, and even the electric chair wouldn't always kill the prisoner but was itself painful.
> 
> I don't see how they're better than ISIS, except that their god speaks English and ISIS's doesn't.


Poor Purl
They are ISIS draped in one of the American Flags.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Time for Netanyahu to shut up. He is sitting on hundreds of nuclear weapons and is shouting at others. Very poor stance to take. 
I would like our Population to vote for or against further financial support for Netanyahu. Israel is getting constant support from us and he pokes his finger into our eyes. We can use those monies to heal what ails us. Time for change. I know it is rare that someone speaks that honestly about this issue but it is time for discussion.

I am for EVERY Country to do away with their nuclear weapons.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Did you see Bob Katter's son in law on the 7.30 report last night. He wants to import A new seven-round shotgun, and have it available for people with a category A licence. It's a powerful weapon that fires and reloads quickly. It can fire eight shots in as many seconds, using a firing mechanism straight from the Wild West.
> 
> They guns should be restricted to a C or D licence holders. They are just as dangerous as a pump action shotgun. But then you may also share my opinion of Bob Katter.
> 
> ...


I did see that and I was horrified. It's all fine and good for the farmers to want this sort of gun and if it could be truly restricted to them, well, maybe. But no gun, whatever it's type will ever escape the clutches of those who will abuse them. Introducing it will be just another win for the underground gun market and the crims.

"During their 1964 Australian tour, The Beatles were pelted by eggs from some unknown assailants. Katter, then a university student, later came forward and admitted his involvement, in what he explained was an "intellectual reaction against Beatlemania." Wiki.

Katter is self evident.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have missed this thread, the 'thread regarding open carry of guns', could you post a link please? Thank you.


Link Eve:

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-349001-1.html


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Time for Netanyahu to shut up. He is sitting on hundreds of nuclear weapons and is shouting at others. Very poor stance to take.
> I would like our Population to vote for or against further financial support for Netanyahu. Israel is getting constant support from us and he pokes his finger into our eyes. We can use those monies to heal what ails us. Time for change. I know it is rare that someone speaks that honestly about this issue but it is time for discussion.
> 
> I am for EVERY Country to do away with their nuclear weapons.


To some extent I agree; Netanyahu is far from being a good leader. However, fortunately - or unfortunately - Israel is still a democracy, and he's the guy they picked.

If Israel can remain safe, and remain, period, getting rid of nuclear weapons would be a great idea. However, it has to be all or none, and there are several nations that would never give up theirs.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> mmorris
> It is time to have diplomatic connections with all countries. If the population sees that other countries mean well, they eventually will push their government into changes. It's a small World after all.


I'm hopeful that things will change as a result of the Iran nuclear deal. I just hope it isn't too good to be true. Iran is not to be trusted according to many news commentators but this may be a turning point.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This reminds me of something that happened to a friend in high school. When we took geometry, we carried around all the necessary paraphernalia: compass, protractor, graph paper, different colored pencils. One night my friend was walking down a very empty street, and somebody grabbed her from behind, with his arm around her neck. She pulled out her compass and jabbed the needle part into his hand. He ran away from her.
> 
> I doubt that having a gun in her purse would have worked as well.


I agree. The fact is that with most personal attacks (like handbag theft for example), rely on the element of surprise. Your gun isn't going to be much use when your first reaction to being either pushed to the ground or grabbed around the neck is to use your arms and hands to break your fall or reach for the arm around your neck.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> It is another "performance" by the right. It is definitely NOT TRUE. They have no shame and do not worry about continuous lying either. How much I wish there as a Hell. No, there is no limit to what they will do. They would bomb us if they thought it would only kill us.
> This should open the eyes of those among us who have believed that CB is a nice person. I very early on thought so as well but quickly saw her in a very different light. She is the Wolf in Sheep's clothing. May God have mercy on her.


Conservative, n.: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
Ambrose Bierce


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm hopeful that things will change as a result of the Iran nuclear deal. I just hope it isn't too good to be true. Iran is not to be trusted according to many news commentators but this may be a turning point.


Wombatnomore
I will never rely on News Commentators. They are rarely right. They are always looking for "specials" to keep an Audience.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> To some extent I agree; Netanyahu is far from being a good leader. However, fortunately - or unfortunately - Israel is still a democracy, and he's the guy they picked.
> 
> If Israel can remain safe, and remain, period, getting rid of nuclear weapons would be a great idea. However, it has to be all or none, and there are several nations that would never give up theirs.


Poor Purl
with Netanyahu's attitude, Israel's Enemies will not dwindle in numbers. I like for all Nations to be safe and therefore Diplomacy is of utmost importance. Diplomacy is something totally foreign to Netanyahu. He has no respect for anyone and I am so puzzled why he was elected once again. I know it was big money who helped him tremendously but why? Those monies are most likely made in the USA, so why the hatred for us?
Unfortunately you are right, those weapons will never totally disappear but I am glad that at least several Nations will keep a check on Iran for example to not develop them. 
I am actually surprised that Iran agreed to any Deal. I am not sure that if in their Shoes I would have done it unless other Countries would be forced to the same treatment and in addition others forced into disposal of their nuclear weapons. I know, I am looking for fairness but that is always absent in politics. 
Time for people of all Nations to find some Peace in their lives. The GOP has raked havoc around the globe. NO MORE WARS.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Link Eve:
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-349001-1.html


Thanks.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I did see that and I was horrified. It's all fine and good for the farmers to want this sort of gun and if it could be truly restricted to them, well, maybe. But no gun, whatever it's type will ever escape the clutches of those who will abuse them. Introducing it will be just another win for the underground gun market and the crims.
> 
> "During their 1964 Australian tour, The Beatles were pelted by eggs from some unknown assailants. Katter, then a university student, later came forward and admitted his involvement, in what he explained was an "intellectual reaction against Beatlemania." Wiki.
> 
> Katter is self evident.


Katter is a nutter.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Loistec said:


> I just looked up Margaret Sanger, feminist and birth control advocate who started Planned Parenthood. Fascinating read, what a pioneering free thinker. I guess this is what has them gnashing their teeth:
> 
> In The Morality of Birth Control, a 1921 speech, she divided society into three groups: the educated and informed class that regulated the size of their families, the intelligent and responsible who desired to control their families however did not have the means or the knowledge and the irresponsible and reckless people whose religious scruples "prevent their exercising control over their numbers. Sanger concludes there is no doubt in the minds of all thinking people that the procreation of this group should be stopped.


She was a eugenicist. Her undesirable groups were usually newly arrived immigrants who did not share her background. She is not to be lauded - but Planned Parenthood does and it has certainly morphed since her time.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Time for Netanyahu to shut up. He is sitting on hundreds of nuclear weapons and is shouting at others. Very poor stance to take.
> I would like our Population to vote for or against further financial support for Netanyahu. Israel is getting constant support from us and he pokes his finger into our eyes. We can use those monies to heal what ails us. Time for change. I know it is rare that someone speaks that honestly about this issue but it is time for discussion.
> 
> I am for EVERY Country to do away with their nuclear weapons.


Because of your hatred for Netanyahu, you want the Israelis to suffer?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Conservative, n.: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others."
> Ambrose Bierce


Very appropriate. The children of the Devil would naturally use The Devil's Dictionary.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Even if the agreement with Iran is just a holding action, even if it is in effect for a short and limited time, it is that much time to work on the issues that divide us and perhaps come to a stronger detente. Meanwhile, if the Irani people enjoy a degree of peace and prosperity, they will be less inclined to want a return to chaos and uncertainty.



Huckleberry said:


> Loistec
> if she only could have achieved "stopped". This is the same group who never has any misgivings starting another War. Look at the alternative to the Iran Deal = War. Exactly what we need another War started by Republicans. Are they better than Isis? Another War is a terrorizing thought.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

That is sort of the pot calling the kettle (ahem). I have the feeling that were Margaret Sanger alive today she would have been less of a bigot. Look at the number of people who come from environments that promote bigotry who have themselves disavowed that sort of behavior. People do grow up.



Poor Purl said:


> - - - -
> 
> She was also something of a racist, but I'm sure that's not why they hate her, though they bring it up every chance they get.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Apparently their god spoke either Hebrew or Aramaic when he communicated with Abraham, Noah, and Moses.



Poor Purl said:


> They think their way of executing people is somehow better than beheading. Beheading is a very quick kill, and practically painless (to the target, not the spectators), whereas the chemical deaths we use now can go on for hours, painfully, and even the electric chair wouldn't always kill the prisoner but was itself painful.
> 
> I don't see how they're better than ISIS, except that their god speaks English and ISIS's doesn't.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I think they are always in danger of losing their jobs if their commentary strays too far from the sensibilities of their boss, also. A commentator has to become larger than life like Walter Cronkite to have the freedom to express his own opinions without fear of being fired.



Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> I will never rely on News Commentators. They are rarely right. They are always looking for "specials" to keep an Audience.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Because of your hatred for Netanyahu, you want the Israelis to suffer?


SQM
Really? Where do I promote suffering? I want My People, the Israelis and all people to have a peaceful Life which under Netanyahu is always very questionable. He is and remains a War monger. Yes, I dislike him thoroughly. I have no room for individuals who know nothing else but creating discourse.
I am well aware that speaking out against him is considered a no no but it is time that someone takes him on and speaks the truth. It is he who makes Jews so disliked and it is time for a change. Jews are good People and deserve respect which has eluded them for all too long. 
We, the USA have been providing for him VERY well and in return we get kicked in the stomach again and again. Plenty of us are sick of it, but few have the guts to say so. Call me gutsy.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:



> Even if the agreement with Iran is just a holding action, even if it is in effect for a short and limited time, it is that much time to work on the issues that divide us and perhaps come to a stronger detente. Meanwhile, if the Irani people enjoy a degree of peace and prosperity, they will be less inclined to want a return to chaos and uncertainty.


MarilynKnits
You are so on target. The Iranian People will benefit from the deal and that in turn will bend them in our direction. They are good People and would love to live as we do.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> That is sort of the pot calling the kettle (ahem). I have the feeling that were Margaret Sanger alive today she would have been less of a bigot. Look at the number of people who come from environments that promote bigotry who have themselves disavowed that sort of behavior. People do grow up.


I think that goes without saying. Things were different then. Even Atticus Finch was a bigot.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Apparently their god spoke either Hebrew or Aramaic when he communicated with Abraham, Noah, and Moses.


Which is why they fail to understand what the Hebrew Bible is about.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> are you for real? Where do I promote suffering? I want My People, the Israelis and all people to have a peaceful Life which under Netanyahu is always very questionable. He is and remains a War monger. Yes, I dislike him thoroughly. I have no room for individuals who know nothing else but creating discourse.
> I am well aware that speaking out against him is considered a no no but it is time that someone takes him on and speaks the truth. It is he who makes Jews so disliked and it is time for a change. Jews are good People and deserve respect which has eluded them for all too long.
> We, the USA have been providing for him VERY well and in return we get kicked in the stomach again and again. Plenty of us are sick of it, but few have the gut to say so.


If Jews are disliked (that's hardly a good description of the murderous rage being rained down on them in some places), it's not because of Netanyahu. He's just an excuse.

If you haven't read http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/07/anti-semitism-france-hostage-hyper-cacher-kosher-market this may be a good time.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> You are so on target. The Iranian People will benefit from the deal and that in turn will bend them in our direction. They are good People and would love to live as we do.


But can they prevail over the ayatollahs and the mujahadeen? They couldn't before.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But can they prevail over the ayatollahs and the mujahadeen? They couldn't before.


Poor Purl
looking back brings nothing. The majority of the Iranian People are decent people and fortunately, their Leaders do not live or reign forever either. I have never been in any Country where the People were unlike us. Many of their Governments are and the people have to obey. Changes are taking place however and in some Countries slower than in others.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If Jews are disliked (that's hardly a good description of the murderous rage being rained down on them in some places), it's not because of Netanyahu. He's just an excuse.
> 
> If you haven't read http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/07/anti-semitism-france-hostage-hyper-cacher-kosher-market this may be a good time.


Poor Purl
don't you think that many people measure Jews by their Leader? Some People of other countries are still being measured in that fashion after over half a Century of the leader's demise. When someone like Netanyahu continuously is in the attack mode, he attracts/entices individuals who use that as an excuse for their dastardly behavior against any Jew. His tone needs to change. When he is so ugly against those who are supposed to be his friend, the USA, just think how he speaks to those who he considers Enemies.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> looking back brings nothing. The majority of the Iranian People are decent people and fortunately, their Leaders do not live or reign forever either. I have never been in any Country where the People were unlike us. Many of their Governments are and the people have to obey. Changes are taking place however and in some Countries slower than in others.


True, but history often repeats itself, and we have to be prepared.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I hope you will believe me when I tell you I am not anti-Semitic. I am surely allowed to dislike what Israel sometimes does without being subjected to that smear. I'm not going to enter into any arguments because of what I've read here previously. I just wanted to make the point that dislike of some of Israel's politics does not automatically make anyone anti-Semitic.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

There are plenty of us American Jews who dispute some of Israel's policies and who do not love Bibi. Different ones of us are upset about different things.

I think constructive criticism helps make people who are capable of thinking really think and evaluate issues.

But I can understand Israel's stance in many issues considering she is a tiny entity surrounded by enemies who have vowed to annihilate her. Throughout history we have been attacked, our numbers decimated, our lands stolen all because of who we are.

We have survived, but understandably feel the need for constant vigilance and preparedness against what seems to be inevitable onslaught.



aw9358 said:


> I hope you will believe me when I tell you I am not anti-Semitic. I am surely allowed to dislike what Israel sometimes does without being subjected to that smear. I'm not going to enter into any arguments because of what I've read here previously. I just wanted to make the point that dislike of some of Israel's politics does not automatically make anyone anti-Semitic.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> don't you think that many people measure Jews by their Leader? Some People of other countries are still being measured in that fashion after over half a Century of the leader's demise. When someone like Netanyahu continuously is in the attack mode, he attracts/entices individuals who use that as an excuse for their dastardly behavior against any Jew. His tone needs to change. When he is so ugly against those who are supposed to be his friend, the USA, just think how he speaks to those who he considers Enemies.


1) Netanyahu is *not* the leader of the Jews. He's just the leader of a tiny country in the Middle East that's barely visible on most maps. I think he's behaving in a very stupid way, but as I said before, Israel is a democracy and Israelis get to choose their own leaders. Neither you nor I can teach him how to behave.

2) If terrorist thugs can't tell the difference between, for instance, French Jews and Israelis, its their leaders who are responsible for what's going on, not Netanyahu.

3) As far as the US is concerned, I don't think our President has made it clear enough that we will support Israel at the same time that he's befriending Iran, and the Israelis are justifiably worried. After all, Iran's leaders are still promising to destroy their country. Also, enough of our worst Congresspeople have made it easier for Netanyahu to come to them than to meet with the President. He may have seen himself as having to make a choice.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I hope you will believe me when I tell you I am not anti-Semitic. I am surely allowed to dislike what Israel sometimes does without being subjected to that smear. I'm not going to enter into any arguments because of what I've read here previously. I just wanted to make the point that dislike of some of Israel's politics does not automatically make anyone anti-Semitic.


aw9358
I agree with you wholeheartedly and I am a Jew.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> 1) Netanyahu is *not* the leader of the Jews. He's just the leader of a tiny country in the Middle East that's barely visible on most maps. I think he's behaving in a very stupid way, but as I said before, Israel is a democracy and Israelis get to choose their own leaders. Neither you nor I can teach him how to behave.
> 
> 2) If terrorist thugs can't tell the difference between, for instance, French Jews and Israelis, its their leaders who are responsible for what's going on, not Netanyahu.
> 
> 3) As far as the US is concerned, I don't think our President has made it clear enough that we will support Israel at the same time that he's befriending Iran, and the Israelis are justifiably worried. After all, Iran's leaders are still promising to destroy their country. Also, enough of our worst Congresspeople have made it easier for Netanyahu to come to them than to meet with the President. He may have seen himself as having to make a choice.


Poor Purl
I think that President Obama has always supported Israel even when he disagreed with Netanyahu. I do not think that us supporting Israel will ever change but certainly hope that at least our Leaders and We The People will get respect in return. Not too much asking for, is it. By the way it is our permanent support for Israel that has made so many Enemies for us. Much would change for the better for us if we treated Israel as Netanyahu treats us BUT we are too decent a Nation to do that. I like the Israelis, they are MY People and therefore I have no misgivings to point out some failings of its Leader. Jews everywhere are being chided because of Netanyahu's ill will. The majority of Jews are not like him but most people never get to see that.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are plenty of us American Jews who dispute some of Israel's policies and who do not love Bibi. Different ones of us are upset about different things.
> 
> I think constructive criticism helps make people who are capable of thinking really think and evaluate issues.
> 
> ...


MarilynKnits
IF Diplomacy would be engaged on a constant basis, things would change eventually. Antagonizing others, will keep everything at status quo. Someone has to be willing to take the lower road. There is no shame to that unless one is an egomaniac.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> IF Diplomacy would be engaged on a constant basis, things would change eventually. Antagonizing others, will keep everything at status quo. Someone has to be willing to take the lower road. There is no shame to that unless one is an egomaniac.


I read a quote on Facebook yesterday that put it rather well: You can't achieve peace by talking to your friends; instead you must talk to your enemies (or words to that effect).


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If Jews are disliked (that's hardly a good description of the murderous rage being rained down on them in some places), it's not because of Netanyahu. He's just an excuse.
> 
> If you haven't read http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/07/anti-semitism-france-hostage-hyper-cacher-kosher-market this may be a good time.


Thank you Miss Purl. Netanyahu is not the problem - worldwide anti-semitism is. Huckle - Read PP's article and see what is happening. Yesterday I went to a french restaurant and wore my IDF tee shirt in defiance after reading the article. The food stunk.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I read a quote on Facebook yesterday that put it rather well: You can't achieve peace by talking to your friends; instead you must talk to your enemies (or words to that effect).


DGreen
No better words have ever been spoken. Thank you very much. I believe STRONGLY in Diplomacy.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thank you Miss Purl. Netanyahu is not the problem - worldwide anti-semitism is. Huckle - Read PP's article and see what is happening. Yesterday I went to a french restaurant and wore my IDF tee shirt in defiance after reading the article. The food stunk.


SQM
you just don't get it do you. Where do you think anti-semitism originates? Attitudes could change if Netanyahu would behave like a Statesman and start treating Friends with respect and he would stop attacking everyone. He is constantly on a War Path which can only end in dislike and even hatred. As I said before, he sets the tone and the sounds coming from him are always antagonistic. 
By the grace of a higher Power, we do not have a Leader like him. I am also thankful for the grace my President always shows no matter what gets thrown at him. 
I want Israel to be free, free of fear and it can only happen if it gets a Leader who is capable of speaking instead of constantly spitting poison.

By the way I frequent several French Restaurants and they know I am a Jew and the staff is French and always kind. Their food is pricey but extraordinary.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitspresentgifts said:


> I agree with everything you just said. But for a couple of smaller points.
> 
> However, I will say that Netanyahu's behavior is making me nervous.
> 
> ...


knitspresentgifts
your opinion is right on the button. Netanyahu is trying to push and push hard for starting a War with Iran in particular and we are not going there. If he wants War, let us withdraw our financial support for Israel and let him fight his fight by himself. We are beginning to ask other Nations to do so - finally. Let us keep our Nose clean. We have had it with Wars for a long, long time, hopefully forever. It is my hope that our next President will - like Obama - be a Diplomat and not a Dictator.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> No better words have ever been spoken. Thank you very much. I believe STRONGLY in Diplomacy.


So do I. There has always been too much war in the world and we need to try something different.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitspresentgifts said:


> Whoa. I certainly don't think the antisemitism _starts_ with Netanyahu. He may be providing anti-Semites with an excuse, but that antisemitism is ingrained in some parts of French culture and other places.


"This typewriter" explains my position at this moment.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think that President Obama has always supported Israel even when he disagreed with Netanyahu. I do not think that us supporting Israel will ever change but certainly hope that at least our Leaders and We The People will get respect in return. Not too much asking for, is it. By the way it is our permanent support for Israel that has made so many Enemies for us. Much would change for the better for us if we treated Israel as Netanyahu treats us BUT we are too decent a Nation to do that. I like the Israelis, they are MY People and therefore I have no misgivings to point out some failings of its Leader. Jews everywhere are being chided because of Netanyahu's ill will. The majority of Jews are not like him but most people never get to see that.


You're right, though I hate to stop arguing. People tend to see others tribally: what one Jew does, all Jews are responsible for. As if that were ever the case, anywhere.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitspresentgifts said:


> I agree with everything you just said. But for a couple of smaller points.
> 
> However, I will say that Netanyahu's behavior is making me nervous.
> 
> ...


Yes, you're probably right.

I'm wondering why you conflated two messages. I wasn't responding to Marilyn but to Huckleberry.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

In my post, I said 'restrictions' when I meant 'Sanctions.' Sorry 'bout that.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitspresentgifts said:


> Whoa. I certainly don't think the antisemitism _starts_ with Netanyahu. He may be providing anti-Semites with an excuse, but that antisemitism is ingrained in some parts of French culture and other places.


You have that right. Interestingly, France was the first modern country to give equality to Jews (Napoleon), though it never managed to clear itself of anti-Semitism. The Dreyfus case showed that to the world. And now it's going to be the first European country whose Jewish population felt constrained to leave.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh, how definitely I agree with you. You can see antisemitism in Shakespeare's England as well as in France.

Bibi Netanyahu is an extremely abrasive personality who tends to bring out the antisemitism already present in some people and who just irritates others. The Israeli people elected him and he is at this time a fact of life beyond our control. He is probably as polarizing to the Israeli people as our current and prior heads of state have been here.

I just hope he does not do a one man job of destroying Israel's relationships with other countries which have historically supported her. There are too many dangerous weapons in the world and too many crazies ready to use them. The civilized countries need to work together for peaceful resolutions to our differences.



knitspresentgifts said:


> Whoa. I certainly don't think the antisemitism _starts_ with Netanyahu. He may be providing anti-Semites with an excuse, but that antisemitism is ingrained in some parts of French culture and other places.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, how definitely I agree with you. You can see antisemitism in Shakespeare's England as well as in France.
> 
> Bibi Netanyahu is an extremely abrasive personality who tends to bring out the antisemitism already present in some people and who just irritates others. The Israeli people elected him and he is at this time a fact of life beyond our control. He is probably as polarizing to the Israeli people as our current and prior heads of state have been here.
> 
> I just hope he does not do a one man job of destroying Israel's relationships with other countries which have historically supported her. There are too many dangerous weapons in the world and too many crazies ready to use them. The civilized countries need to work together for peaceful resolutions to our differences.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Then again over a period around the turn of the century 1890's to early 1900's significant portions of the Jewish populace bailed out of Russia. And in the 1930's the perceptive and rightfully paranoid fled Germany until they were no longer able to do so. And let's not forget 15th century Spain. We are a people who have been on the run ever since Moses got us out of Egypt.



Poor Purl said:


> You have that right. Interestingly, France was the first modern country to give equality to Jews (Napoleon), though it never managed to clear itself of anti-Semitism. The Dreyfus case showed that to the world. And now it's going to be the first European country whose Jewish population felt constrained to leave.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Then again over a period around the turn of the century 1890's to early 1900's significant portions of the Jewish populace bailed out of Russia. And in the 1930's the perceptive and rightfully paranoid fled Germany until they were no longer able to do so. And let's not forget 15th century Spain. We are a people who have been on the run ever since Moses got us out of Egypt.


True. I was thinking more recently, when Jews left most Arab countries: Egypt, Syria, Iran, and Yemen had large Jewish populations. I once heard an Iranian woman say that after the Jews were forced to leave, Iran did not have a single ophthalmologist.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitspresentgifts said:


> Whoa. I certainly don't think the antisemitism _starts_ with Netanyahu. He may be providing anti-Semites with an excuse, but that antisemitism is ingrained in some parts of French culture and other places.


knitspresentgifts
No, it did not start with him but he certainly is drawing very negative attention to himself and therefore to Jews, we could do well without. Someone has to start with Diplomacy and he is without a doubt not someone we could count on to start ANY Peace process.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, how definitely I agree with you. You can see antisemitism in Shakespeare's England as well as in France.
> 
> Bibi Netanyahu is an extremely abrasive personality who tends to bring out the antisemitism already present in some people and who just irritates others. The Israeli people elected him and he is at this time a fact of life beyond our control. He is probably as polarizing to the Israeli people as our current and prior heads of state have been here.
> 
> ...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

With the comments about Netanyahu being a "leader" of the Jews, I have to put in my opinion. I don't think the Jews have had a single "leader" since Moses, and even he had problems with defectors and doubters. I don't think the Jews of the world can ever be united in the identification of a leader. 

Would that be a religious figure? If so, would that leader be able to unite the diverse groups from the ultra Orthodox to the Reconstructionist? 

Or a cultural leader? Would such a leader be able to unite the groups from the paternalistic traditionalists to the feminists to the non religious descendents of Jews who still identify as Jews? You know, the pastrami sandwich, bagel and lox Jews? 

Think of lumping all Christians in one umbrella ID the same way as Jews are all lumped in one ID. Simply the common belief of the divinity of Jesus, of the Trinity, of the virginity of Mary, are not enough to make all Christians interchangeable.

And think of Islam. The divide between the Sunni and the Shia appears to be immutable. I do not know enough about that faith to speak reliably, but are there other sectarian divisions, as with Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, and so on among Protestant Christians? Or among Roman, Greek, and Eastern orthodoxies?

A humongous goal to result in world peace would be to get each of the diverse groups to live and let live and not to start wars over differences in theology. Anybody see that happening any time soon?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitspresentgifts said:


> Whoa. I certainly don't think the antisemitism _starts_ with Netanyahu. He may be providing anti-Semites with an excuse, but that antisemitism is ingrained in some parts of French culture and other places.


I have to agree with this statement. The _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_ was said to have been written by one of Napoleon's Generals. Have we forgotten Alfred Dreyfus?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I read a quote on Facebook yesterday that put it rather well: You can't achieve peace by talking to your friends; instead you must talk to your enemies (or words to that effect).


Can I offer a slightly amended version of your statement?

You can't achieve peace by talking *with* your friends; instead you must talk *with* your enemies.

Talking 'to' can sound dictatorial, as if one person is in charge and the other person must listen. Or better still perhaps

You can't achieve peace by *communicating with* your friends; instead you must *communicate with* your enemies.

Communicating indicates a two way conversation whereas 'talking' does not mean that either party is actually listening or understanding what the other party is actually saying.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Excellent distinctions. My freshman social studies professor would have given you an A for such an elegant comment.



EveMCooke said:


> Can I offer a slightly amended version of your statement?
> 
> You can't achieve peace by talking *with* your friends; instead you must talk *with* your enemies.
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitspresentgifts said:


> I should've been clearer about that.
> 
> I liked her comment that "_But I can understand Israel's stance in many issues considering she is a tiny entity surrounded by enemies who have vowed to annihilate her. Throughout history we have been attacked, our numbers decimated, our lands stolen all because of who we are._"
> 
> ...


Okay, you make a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> With the comments about Netanyahu being a "leader" of the Jews, I have to put in my opinion. I don't think the Jews have had a single "leader" since Moses, and even he had problems with defectors and doubters. I don't think the Jews of the world can ever be united in the identification of a leader.
> 
> Would that be a religious figure? If so, would that leader be able to unite the diverse groups from the ultra Orthodox to the Reconstructionist?
> 
> ...


That's probably impossible. Or at least improbable. Especially since there are so many of them, whichever "them" you choose, as opposed to Jews, who worldwide number 0.2% of the population. If those few Jews can't settle their differences, I don't see how all the larger groups could manage. But maybe they could manage to stop the fighting and just keep out of each other's way. And maybe the price of cashmere could come down to $4 for 50 gms.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Even if the agreement with Iran is just a holding action, even if it is in effect for a short and limited time, it is that much time to work on the issues that divide us and perhaps come to a stronger detente. Meanwhile, if the Irani people enjoy a degree of peace and prosperity, they will be less inclined to want a return to chaos and uncertainty.


That's kind of my take on the Iran deal too. The Western world is seeking to shove them to the back burner for now--loosening the sanctions and releasing their frozen overseas assets (billions, apparently) will keep them happily occupied rebuilding their economy, for at least a little while.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are plenty of us American Jews who dispute some of Israel's policies and who do not love Bibi. Different ones of us are upset about different things.
> 
> I think constructive criticism helps make people who are capable of thinking really think and evaluate issues.
> 
> ...


I can understand Israel's concern about the situation in the Middle East--alliances are changing, and Israel doesn't seem to be getting the same unconditional, rock-solid support it's traditionally enjoyed.

But Bibi needs to get a clue. Bullying, threats, and pandering to the American GOP not going to turn back the clock.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are plenty of us American Jews who dispute some of Israel's policies and who do not love Bibi. Different ones of us are upset about different things.
> 
> I think constructive criticism helps make people who are capable of thinking really think and evaluate issues.
> 
> ...


I hate that he's called Bibi! It would be like POTUS being called Baba!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There are plenty of us American Jews who dispute some of Israel's policies and who do not love Bibi. Different ones of us are upset about different things.
> 
> I think constructive criticism helps make people who are capable of thinking really think and evaluate issues.
> 
> ...


Completely understand.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I read a quote on Facebook yesterday that put it rather well: You can't achieve peace by talking to your friends; instead you must talk to your enemies (or words to that effect).


I believe that to be true even in microcosm life.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> you just don't get it do you. Where do you think anti-semitism originates? Attitudes could change if Netanyahu would behave like a Statesman and start treating Friends with respect and he would stop attacking everyone. He is constantly on a War Path which can only end in dislike and even hatred. As I said before, he sets the tone and the sounds coming from him are always antagonistic.
> By the grace of a higher Power, we do not have a Leader like him. I am also thankful for the grace my President always shows no matter what gets thrown at him.
> I want Israel to be free, free of fear and it can only happen if it gets a Leader who is capable of speaking instead of constantly spitting poison.
> ...


I don't know Huck. I just read an article which lists a litany of figureheads who have vowed to destroy Israel over many years:

Mohammad Khatami, the former president of Iran: If we abide by real legal laws, we should mobilize the whole Islamic world for a sharp confrontation with the Zionist regime  if we abide by the Koran, all of us should mobilize to kill. (2000)

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: It is the mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran to erase Israel from the map of the region. (2001)

Hassan Nasrallah, a leader of Hezbollah: If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (2002)

Nasrallah: Israel is our enemy. This is an aggressive, illegal, and illegitimate entity, which has no future in our land. Its destiny is manifested in our motto: Death to Israel. (2005)

Yahya Rahim Safavi, the former commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps: With Gods help the time has come for the Zionist regimes death sentence. (2008)

Mohammad Hassan Rahimian, Khameneis representative to the Moustazafan Foundation: We have manufactured missiles that allow us, when necessary to replace [sic] Israel in its entirety with a big holocaust. (2010)

Mohammad Reza Naqdi, the commander of the Basij paramilitary force: We recommend them [the Zionists] to pack their furniture and return to their countries. And if they insist on staying, they should know that a time while arrive when they will not even have time to pack their suitcases. (2011)

Khamenei: The Zionist regime is a cancerous tumor and it will be removed. (2012)

Ahmad Alamolhoda, a member of the Assembly of Experts: The destruction of Israel is the idea of the Islamic Revolution in Iran and is one of the pillars of the Iranian Islamic regime. We cannot claim that we have no intention of going to war with Israel. (2013)

Nasrallah: The elimination of Israel is not only a Palestinian interest. It is the interest of the entire Muslim world and the entire Arab world. (2013)

Hojateleslam Alireza Panahian, the advisor to Office of the Supreme Leader in Universities: The day will come when the Islamic people in the region will destroy Israel and save the world from this Zionist base. (2013)

Hojatoleslam Ali Shirazi, Khameneis representative in the Revolutionary Guard: The Zionist regime will soon be destroyed, and this generation will be witness to its destruction." (2013)

Khamenei: This barbaric, wolflike & infanticidal regime of Israel which spares no crime has no cure but to be annihilated. (2014)

Mohammad Ali Jafari, the commander-in-chief of the Revolutionary Guard: "The Revolutionary Guards will fight to the end of the Zionist regime ... We will not rest easy until this epitome of vice is totally deleted from the region's geopolitics." (2015)

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/Iranian-View-of-Israel/387085/


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I hate that he's called Bibi! It would be like POTUS being called Baba!


Israel's prime minister has a nickname that almost everyone likes. Except for Shai Bazak, his official spokesman. Upon Benjamin Netanyahu's election, Bazak urged journalists to refrain from calling the premier "Bibi."

This is a big mistake.

A good nickname is hard to find. Most politicos would sell their grandmother for a winning tag like "Bibi." Netanyahu didn't even have to pay a public relations pro to think it up. According to Netanyahu family lore, it stems from childhood confusion with another older Benjamin who was the big BB while the future prime minister was the little Bibi.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I hate that he's called Bibi! It would be like POTUS being called Baba!


I'm afraid POTUS has been called worse than Baba. Netanyahu's first name, Benjamin, is _Binyamin_ in Hebrew, so Bibi is a diminutive. Israelis are very informal.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I hate that he's called Bibi! It would be like POTUS being called Baba!


Come to think of it, Eve has some funny names for Australian politicians, such as Tony Rabbit. Wouldn't you rather be Bibi than Rabbit?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Come to think of it, Eve has some funny names for Australian politicians, such as Tony Rabbit. Wouldn't you rather be Bibi than Rabbit?


I think nicknames like Bibi for a leader of a country is not stately. I'm informal myself but when it comes to political leaders I don't like it. Having said that I've got a few names for Abbott the Rabbit which aren't repeatable here. That guy is a piece of work!


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

In response to Poor Purl's question about Jonathan's keeping up with the news: Sort of. He definitely keeps up with XKCD.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Come to think of it, Eve has some funny names for Australian politicians, such as Tony Rabbit. Wouldn't you rather be Bibi than Rabbit?


I must tell you how Tony Abbott came to be referred to as Tony Rabbit. It was the former Prime Minister, Julia Gillard's Aussie accent. When she said Mr Abbott and said it very fast, it sounded like she was saying Mr Rabbit. Say Mr Abbott very fast, emphasise the last syllable as Aussies do and run the two words together as Aussie do and you will see what I mean. MisterAbbott comes out as Misterrabbit. The name stuck with many people.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

It is not an unusual nickname for Binyomin. But I agree it sounds undignified for an old guy who is the head of a state.



Wombatnomore said:


> I hate that he's called Bibi! It would be like POTUS being called Baba!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Interesting article relative to the inaccuracies reported by some of the D&P people recently:

http://reverbpress.com/news/us/put-pitchforks-truth-planned-parenthood-video/


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is not an unusual nickname for Binyomin. But I agree it sounds undignified for an old guy who is the head of a state.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Interesting article relative to the inaccuracies reported by some of the D&P people recently:
> 
> http://reverbpress.com/news/us/put-pitchforks-truth-planned-parenthood-video/


Thanks for sharing Green. The D&P's have more than proven their habit of seeking out information that aligns with THEIR thinking, not the other way around. Just being in the habit of watching FOX News is enough to keep them poorly informed and entrenched in the mob mentality for ever.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitspresentgifts said:


> I should've been clearer about that.
> 
> I liked her comment that "_But I can understand Israel's stance in many issues considering she is a tiny entity surrounded by enemies who have vowed to annihilate her. Throughout history we have been attacked, our numbers decimated, our lands stolen all because of who we are._"
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thanks for sharing Green. The D&P's have more than proven their habit of seeking out information that aligns with THEIR thinking, not the other way around. Just being in the habit of watching FOX News is enough to keep them poorly informed and entrenched in the mob mentality for ever.


Even more problematic is the way the video was edited in such a way as to convey inaccurate and inflammatory information. And the Diaper Pail crowd no doubt believes every word of it. Particularly one whose everlasting rant against abortion is well known.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> In response to Poor Purl's question about Jonathan's keeping up with the news: Sort of. He definitely keeps up with XKCD.


I hadn't heard of XKCD, but now that I know of its existence, I plan to read it. It seems extremely clever.

Your profile still says you're in MA. Isn't it time for a change? How are things moving at the house? How much longer do you have to wait before you can spend all your days and nights unpacking and moving furniture around?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I must tell you how Tony Abbott came to be referred to as Tony Rabbit. It was the former Prime Minister, Julia Gillard's Aussie accent. When she said Mr Abbott and said it very fast, it sounded like she was saying Mr Rabbit. Say Mr Abbott very fast, emphasise the last syllable as Aussies do and run the two words together as Aussie do and you will see what I mean. MisterAbbott comes out as Misterrabbit. The name stuck with many people.


It's an obvious nickname, and a funny one. I wonder whether he was the Rabbit who threatened Jimmy Carter in a boat.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Even more problematic is the way the video was edited in such a way as to convey inaccurate and inflammatory information. And the Diaper Pail crowd no doubt believes every word of it. Particularly one whose everlasting rant against abortion is well known.


There are two like that, with everlasting rants, but all of them seem to believe it.

Today's newspaper said Congress is going to hold hearings on this subject, and I bet the video will go into the Congressional Record in some form. With the GOP in charge, it will undoubtedly be taken as gospel.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There are two like that, with everlasting rants, but all of them seem to believe it.
> 
> Today's newspaper said Congress is going to hold hearings on this subject, and I bet the video will go into the Congressional Record in some form. With the GOP in charge, it will undoubtedly be taken as gospel.


Poor Purl
we need more Women in Congress.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we need more Women in Congress.


Yes, yes, yes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Another NRA accomplishment: Shooting in Chattanooga with a semi-automatic weapon. Their bloody Wares sure terrorize us.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I can think of *some* women I would rather not see in any position of authority, particularly the authority to write and vote on laws that affect the majority of women.



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we need more Women in Congress.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I can think of *some* women I would rather not see in any position of authority, particularly the authority to write and vote on laws that affect the majority of women.


MarilynKnits
I agree with that but I think if we are vigilant, we can spot those who will to more harm than good and make sound choices.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I hadn't heard of XKCD, but now that I know of its existence, I plan to read it. It seems extremely clever.
> 
> Your profile still says you're in MA. Isn't it time for a change? How are things moving at the house? How much longer do you have to wait before you can spend all your days and nights unpacking and moving furniture around?


Actually we are in Maine now. I am just having some trouble with my computer. I have tried once each to update KP and Facebook, failing at both. I will keep on trying. The first coat of paint is on the walls, and the cork floor is down in those rooms that have cork. We have one fence estimate, and are meeting with another fence guy on Saturday afternoon. The cooktop is getting delivered tomorrow, and the rest of the appliances are being delivered on July 29. We are all waiting for the electric company to actually connect our house. Most of the solar stuff is there. Our builder showed us a few pictures of the inside of the house since we have not been there since last week, and we will be wandering around outside on Saturday. It is looking good. He has even received a call from someone who works across the street asking about "that cute little house." When he told her that it is not that little -- it's 2400 square feet -- she said "It's still cute." It may look little to her because the side that faces the street is the short side. When the house is finished our builder wants to put some pictures of it up on his office wall.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Camacho said:


> Actually we are in Maine now. I am just having some trouble with my computer. I have tried once each to update KP and Facebook, failing at both. I will keep on trying. The first coat of paint is on the walls, and the cork floor is down in those rooms that have cork. We have one fence estimate, and are meeting with another fence guy on Saturday afternoon. The cooktop is getting delivered tomorrow, and the rest of the appliances are being delivered on July 29. We are all waiting for the electric company to actually connect our house. Most of the solar stuff is there. Our builder showed us a few pictures of the inside of the house since we have not been there since last week, and we will be wandering around outside on Saturday. It is looking good. He has even received a call from someone who works across the street asking about "that cute little house." When he told her that it is not that little -- it's 2400 square feet -- she said "It's still cute." It may look little to her because the side that faces the street is the short side. When the house is finished our builder wants to put some pictures of it up on his office wall.


Use one of the pics as your avatar. All sounds good.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we need more Women in Congress.


Yes, we do. But even women GOP members toe the party line.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Actually we are in Maine now. I am just having some trouble with my computer. I have tried once each to update KP and Facebook, failing at both. I will keep on trying. The first coat of paint is on the walls, and the cork floor is down in those rooms that have cork. We have one fence estimate, and are meeting with another fence guy on Saturday afternoon. The cooktop is getting delivered tomorrow, and the rest of the appliances are being delivered on July 29. We are all waiting for the electric company to actually connect our house. Most of the solar stuff is there. Our builder showed us a few pictures of the inside of the house since we have not been there since last week, and we will be wandering around outside on Saturday. It is looking good. He has even received a call from someone who works across the street asking about "that cute little house." When he told her that it is not that little -- it's 2400 square feet -- she said "It's still cute." It may look little to her because the side that faces the street is the short side. When the house is finished our builder wants to put some pictures of it up on his office wall.


It's really moving fast. You found a good builder, I think. It must be exciting for you.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I can think of *some* women I would rather not see in any position of authority, particularly the authority to write and vote on laws that affect the majority of women.


Just because a female is a woman does not mean she is a sister.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, we do. But even women GOP members toe the party line.


There are GOP women who are pro choice. Elizabeth Dole for one and Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> There are GOP women who are pro choice. Elizabeth Dole for one and Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska


That's a pretty low number.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

The entire concept of women's health issues including reproductive choices being politicized really bothers me.

This is a personal issue that should be decided by a woman for herself with guidance from medical experts. Some politician with an agenda who doesn't know the person, who does not share the woman's religious views, who is not even the woman's locally elected representative has no business telling her what to do about her personal health choices. It is an intrusion into one's personal liberty. It is the sort of interference most of our progenitors fled from when they came to this country.

What next? Some sect decides that root canal surgery is immoral and enacts laws that send us to underground endodontists, all of us subject to arrest for illegal root canals?



peacegoddess said:


> There are GOP women who are pro choice. Elizabeth Dole for one and Senators Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The entire concept of women's health issues including reproductive choices being politicized really bothers me.
> 
> This is a personal issue that should be decided by a woman for herself with guidance from medical experts. Some politician with an agenda who doesn't know the person, who does not share the woman's religious views, who is not even the woman's locally elected representative has no business telling her what to do about her personal health choices. It is an intrusion into one's personal liberty. It is the sort of interference most of our progenitors fled from when they came to this country.
> 
> What next? Some sect decides that root canal surgery is immoral and enacts laws that send us to underground endodontists, all of us subject to arrest for illegal root canals?


MarilynKnits
Oh sure, the right wants a Government that dictates to their whims and our diet for example will be bread, water and fish and for them cream cheese. No more Doctors because they leave everything to some higher power. Oh wait, they will be selective so they get what they want. High time that these religious zealots get out of our lives.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> The entire concept of women's health issues including reproductive choices being politicized really bothers me.
> 
> This is a personal issue that should be decided by a woman for herself with guidance from medical experts. Some politician with an agenda who doesn't know the person, who does not share the woman's religious views, who is not even the woman's locally elected representative has no business telling her what to do about her personal health choices. It is an intrusion into one's personal liberty. It is the sort of interference most of our progenitors fled from when they came to this country.
> 
> What next? Some sect decides that root canal surgery is immoral and enacts laws that send us to underground endodontists, all of us subject to arrest for illegal root canals?


But how can they be true to their religious beliefs if they don't tell *everybody* how to behave? Except men. They never restrict men's behavior. The ones who want to make it legal to fire unmarried pregnant women would never dream of firing the men who got the women pregnant.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Even more problematic is the way the video was edited in such a way as to convey inaccurate and inflammatory information. And the Diaper Pail crowd no doubt believes every word of it. Particularly one whose everlasting rant against abortion is well known.


So true.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The entire concept of women's health issues including reproductive choices being politicized really bothers me.
> 
> This is a personal issue that should be decided by a woman for herself with guidance from medical experts. Some politician with an agenda who doesn't know the person, who does not share the woman's religious views, who is not even the woman's locally elected representative has no business telling her what to do about her personal health choices. It is an intrusion into one's personal liberty. It is the sort of interference most of our progenitors fled from when they came to this country.
> 
> What next? Some sect decides that root canal surgery is immoral and enacts laws that send us to underground endodontists, all of us subject to arrest for illegal root canals?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: I totally agree.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Oh sure, the right wants a Government that dictates to their whims and our diet for example will be bread, water and fish and for them cream cheese. No more Doctors because they leave everything to some higher power. Oh wait, they will be selective so they get what they want. High time that these religious zealots get out of our lives.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: "cream cheese.' Love it!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But how can they be true to their religious beliefs if they don't tell *everybody* how to behave? Except men. They never restrict men's behavior. The ones who want to make it legal to fire unmarried pregnant women would never dream of firing the men who got the women pregnant.


Exactly. :hunf:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But how can they be true to their religious beliefs if they don't tell *everybody* how to behave? Except men. They never restrict men's behavior. The ones who want to make it legal to fire unmarried pregnant women would never dream of firing the men who got the women pregnant.


Oh, but it could be ANY man who impregnated the woman and since she isn't married but obviously having sex, she must be a promiscuous slut.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Oh, but it could be ANY man who impregnated the woman and since she isn't married but obviously having sex, she must be a promiscuous slut.


DGreen
well, I think when no man lays claim to her pregnancy, it must be immaculate conception. A claim that has been made long ago, so why not now.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Oh, but it could be ANY man who impregnated the woman and since she isn't married but obviously having sex, she must be a promiscuous slut.


Is there such a thing as a non-promiscuous slut?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Is there such a thing as a non-promiscuous slut?


SQM
yes.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> yes.


No. Slut implies promiscuity.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Right. Googlesearch brought:

slut
slət/
noun derogatory
noun: slut; plural noun: sluts

1.
a woman who has many casual sexual partners.
synonyms:	promiscuous woman, prostitute, whore; More
informal floozy, tramp, hooker, hustler;
dated tart, scarlet woman, loose woman, hussy, trollop;
archaic harlot, strumpet, wanton
"she dressed like a slut and didn't act much better"
2.
dated
a woman with low standards of cleanliness. (Another word to match the old meaning is slattern. M)



SQM said:


> No. Slut implies promiscuity.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Right. Googlesearch brought:
> 
> slut
> slət/
> ...


The words 'strumpet' and 'trollop' are fabulous! Not because of what they mean, because they make me laugh. Words like 'butox' (for buttocks), and 'lummox' are beauties also. Having a good laugh here!!!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Brightens my day to bring a smile to you. I do love some of the old fashioned words. And one can use them in an appropriate context without waking up the censors!

Have yourself a great weekend.



Wombatnomore said:


> The words 'strumpet' and 'trollop' are fabulous! Not because of what they mean, because they make me laugh. Words like 'butox' (for buttocks), and 'lummox' are beauties also. Having a good laugh here!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> No. Slut implies promiscuity.


SQM
don't forget who uses that term.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitspresentsgifts said:


> I wonder if there are any tests that determine the last time a man ejaculated.
> 
> I so, at least in Catholicism, it is sinful to "spill" seed. Could a Catholic owned business require men to prove they've adequately "protected" their seed? Should they be expected to bring in their sheets if they had a wet dream?
> 
> Ridiculous, yes. But no more ridiculous than firing women for being unmarried and pregnant.


Knitspresentgifts
you are a genius.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitspresentsgifts said:


> I wonder if there are any tests that determine the last time a man ejaculated.
> 
> I so, at least in Catholicism, it is sinful to "spill" seed. Could a Catholic owned business require men to prove they've adequately "protected" their seed? Should they be expected to bring in their sheets if they had a wet dream?
> 
> Ridiculous, yes. But no more ridiculous than firing women for being unmarried and pregnant.


Knitspresentgifts
you are a genius.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

The Donald: Anyone see the segment on Rachel Maddow tonight re. the "Park" Donald donated for Tax right-offs which is not a Park but a dump? He is getting rich on OUR Dime.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> The Donald: Anyone see the segment on Rachel Maddow tonight re. the "Park" Donald donated for Tax right-offs which is not a Park but a dump? He is getting rich on OUR Dime.


Acccording to several polls he is leading the GOP ticket. That's great news for our side!!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

All the Democratic candidates are in Iowa now so we will be able to compare and contrast what they plan to do if elected. Should be interesting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'll be watching, Cheeky !


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Brightens my day to bring a smile to you. I do love some of the old fashioned words. And one can use them in an appropriate context without waking up the censors!
> 
> Have yourself a great weekend.


Thanks Marilyn and you too! Words are a spice of life!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Acccording to several polls he is leading the GOP ticket. That's great news for our side!!


And it also says a lot for the other republican hopefuls:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Acccording to several polls he is leading the GOP ticket. That's great news for our side!!


BrattyPatty
I love it. He is destroying the Righters by being a Right and strengthening us. Politics are strange.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> All the Democratic candidates are in Iowa now so we will be able to compare and contrast what they plan to do if elected. Should be interesting.


Cheeky Blighter
will be listening intently.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore
Love the Poster. Thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
I keep enjoying our Avatar.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Trump's latest slam against John McCain may possibly put an end to his run for President. "Donald Trump slammed Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a decorated Vietnam War veteran, on Saturday by saying McCain was not a war hero because he was captured by the North Vietnamese." I sure hope so. Trump is a real jerk.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> And it also says a lot for the other republican hopefuls:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Good one, Wombat!!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey Patty! I finally have some company. :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hey Patty! I finally have some company. :thumbup:


Hi Cheeky! Did you get hit with severe weather last night? It was insane here, The lightning was phenomenal!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

We sure did. It was coming down in buckets and the lightening was amazing. I love a good storm. I heard there was a tornado but didn't here where. Damage done but nobody hurt.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We sure did. It was coming down in buckets and the lightening was amazing. I love a good storm. I heard there was a tornado but didn't here where. Damage done but nobody hurt.


My kitty man and me cuddled up in the chair and watched the lightning. The other cat was under the couch. I went to harvest some basil today and got one foot in the garden which sank into mud.
Glad the twister didn't hot your area.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :XD:


Hah! I knew it was alive!


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