# Should I have challenged her



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

I was at a large craft show this last weekend and there was a booth there with beautiful baby clothes. When I went to take a closer look the woman in the booth told me that they were all hand knitted items. They were very obviously machine knitted. Now, there is nothing wrong with machine knitting and the baby outfits were absolutely beautiful, little jackets with hoods, leggings with feet in them, exquisite colors etc., but they were, in my opinion, priced as if really hand knitted. I questioned it and she insisted again that they were hand knitted. I left it at that. I was telling my DIL later and she said she would have stated loudly that they were not hand knitted at all, so that other people around would know the woman was trying to cheat them. What would you have done? There was no question that any knitter would have known the difference.


----------



## Deb-Babbles (Mar 4, 2011)

I both hand knit and machine knit. Each is special unto its self. Sometimes I think the machine knitting takes a lot more work. 
I would not have said anything. If she is selling her work at the price point she is asking, well good for her. Would I tell others NO. If I have nothing nice to say then I try not to say anything at all. After all, Karma can bit me right back.


----------



## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

There isn't any way you can win this one. Most people won't know the difference. I ran into that problem once and mentioned it to the shop owner who had them for sale and she informed me they were hand knit and I was no longer welcome in her store.


----------



## alvadee (Nov 21, 2013)

Deb-Babbles said:


> I both hand knit and machine knit. Each is special unto its self. Sometimes I think the machine knitting takes a lot more work.
> I would not have said anything. If she is selling her work at the price point she is asking, well good for her. Would I tell others NO. If I have nothing nice to say then I try not to say anything at all. After all, Karma can bit me right back.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

I am glad I didn't say anything. As I said, the baby things were quite exquisite, I wished I had a little baby to buy them for but my youngest grandchild is over a year old and they would not have fit.


----------



## Reetz (Dec 11, 2013)

If I do the machine knit myself, I would still consider it "hand" made. Many non-knitters may not differentiate between hand knitting and a home-made machine knit.


----------



## bwtyer (Oct 31, 2012)

A friend of mine machine knits-her items are sold as "hand made", which they are. . 
In that lady's view,since she made it by hand , she might consider it hand knit. There are a lot on machine knitters on KP, maybe they can voice their opinion. 
I think it's good you didn't say anything- it would not have accomplished anything and it would have left both of you upset.


----------



## bonster (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't think it's appropriate to make a scene (and basically call her a liar). Different people have a different concept of "hand made". I'm sure it takes time and talent to use the knitting machine.


----------



## Happyknitter3 (May 25, 2014)

I have occasionally sold items that my Mother has knitted on her machine (she does both machine and hand knitting). I describe them as hand made (machine knitted) - though many/most non-knitters would probably not understand the niceties of that distinction. The point is, they are hand made at home rather than bulk manufactured. As you say, at the point of sale it's really whether someone is willing to pay the price for the specific item that counts.


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

I agree she could call it hand made, but not hand knit, I think there's a difference. Both take lots of work though.


----------



## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Deb-Babbles said:


> I both hand knit and machine knit. Each is special unto its self. Sometimes I think the machine knitting takes a lot more work.
> I would not have said anything. If she is selling her work at the price point she is asking, well good for her. Would I tell others NO. If I have nothing nice to say then I try not to say anything at all. After all, Karma can bit me right back.


I don't machine knit, but I know there is more to it than running the handle back and forth... I was raised in a VERY large family and we were told over and over again... _"If you can't say something nice! Don't say anything at all"_ it kept the peace in the family!! and we weren't bully's... 
in fact these items are hand made.. she didn't buy them and re-purposed them to sell... she made them!
Should there be a different wording for hand machine made and needle made.. sure.. I'm not sure what it could be but I am sure someone could come up with some term that would separate the two... but in reality these are handmade..


----------



## clickerMLL (Aug 14, 2013)

I believe the lady should have said "hand made", which the items clearly were. However, for you to make a fuss and "go pubic" would have, in my opinion, been rude. As you may know, machine knitting is a complex process, and can take as long as knitting by hand, so pricing should reflect that. Machine-made knits are NOT a cheap knock-off. 

By the way, I personally am a 100% hand-knit person.


----------



## Swedenme (May 28, 2014)

I would not have challenged her but here in England under the trade description act hand knitting and machine knitting are 2 different things and if you are selling them to the public they should be described as either hand knitted or machine knitted according to my niece who works for the office of fair trading


----------



## Marge St Pete (Jul 21, 2011)

I totally agree.



bwtyer said:


> A friend of mine machine knits-her items are sold as "hand made", which they are. .
> In that lady's view,since she made it by hand , she might consider it hand knit. There are a lot on machine knitters on KP, maybe they can voice their opinion.
> I think it's good you didn't say anything- it would not have accomplished anything and it would have left both of you upset.


----------



## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

"Hand knit" may mean something different to us hand knitters! Machine knitters (versus factory knitting machines) may also consider their wares "hand knit". You did right to just keep quiet about it and walk away. It's really not your business to police anyone else's craft booth.


----------



## Busy girl (May 15, 2011)

Reetz said:


> If I do the machine knit myself, I would still consider it "hand" made. Many non-knitters may not differentiate between hand knitting and a home-made machine knit.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Chrissy (May 3, 2011)

Swedenme said:


> I would not have challenged her but here in England under the trade description act hand knitting and machine knitting are 2 different things and if you are selling them to the public they should be described as either hand knitted or machine knitted according to my niece who works for the office of fair trading


I agree its misleading, maybe report this to craft fair organisers?


----------



## thegrape (Nov 11, 2011)

I agree, she felt that they were hand knit and I can understand that.


----------



## bakrmom (May 30, 2011)

Why is it even your business? As many have pointed out, many consider machine knit as hand-made. We are not talking mass produced factory made items here. There is a lot of skill that goes into using a knotting machine, too just as there is in using knitting needles or crochet hooks.


----------



## Slidell411 (Sep 29, 2013)

I wouldn't have said anything. Bucause the other people who can't tell the difference would probably think you are wrong since she should know what she's selling.


----------



## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

In that case there where would you draw the line? Many machine knits require more than hand knitting to make. Did you examine any of the seams and compliment her on how beautiful her hand work was? I always found it best to not question glass dealers but to strike up a pleasant conversation to get their view point rather than act the authority.

Would you then require we list needles used like cable versus straight since they could be considered machine made like my seamless top-down sweaters are and look better than those machine made since I am the master machine and can control the stitches better. Continental versus tossed? DPN versus Magic loop? Having made sweaters from sweater bodies they can still be considered hand knit/made. Just like couture sewing by hand or by machine its up to the customer to decide what they want to buy. Even Ralph Lauren has "hand knit" sweaters where the sections are done by a machine and the pocket or some other detail maybe hand made.

Now if she had her items marked 100% cashmere and you knew for a fact they were acrylic sock yarn then you would have an issue to report to the fair counsel. At these affairs there are enough other dealers/sellers to weed these nefarious sorts out so its not up to you to be judge and jury. Just walk away.


----------



## tinkercat (Oct 21, 2014)

:thumbup: I agree


----------



## tinkercat (Oct 21, 2014)

I think youre right that machine work done at home is still handmade after all sewn clothes at home use machines


----------



## tinkercat (Oct 21, 2014)

:thumbup:


----------



## Donnathomp (May 5, 2012)

Call me dumb, but I always thought anything knit by an individual , be it by hand or their personal machine, was considered hand made, since it wasn't done in bulk in a factory. So, no, I would not have said anything.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

I wonder if she was selling someone else's work and assumed they were hand knit. Maybe the seller didn't know the difference.


----------



## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I would make sure my voice was heard near and fair,i have nothing against machine knitting,never have but faif is fair and that woman should have been taught a lesson.


----------



## Cdambro (Dec 30, 2013)

Wow....why would you want to embarrass someone publicly? I can tell you that the only person that would have looked the fool was you. And, all to prove a point? So...good you walked away. 

By machine or needles, her work was hand knit or hand made, whatever the wording you want to use.


----------



## hen (Jun 30, 2012)

gwennieh68 said:


> I am glad I didn't say anything. As I said, the baby things were quite exquisite, I wished I had a little baby to buy them for but my youngest grandchild is over a year old and they would not have fit.


I think you did right not to say anything after asking they were hand knitted. It would be very difficult for her to back down when her stall was up and running. But at least she knew that someone had spotted them as machine knitted. And I'm sure they would have been beautiful.


----------



## quiltdaze37 (Nov 16, 2013)

the older I get-----the more I realize I don't have to have the *last* word(anymore)


----------



## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

My former assistant, from China, has a sister who knits by hand. Her knits are so exquisite, with the stitches so even and fine, that they look "machine-made," although I know that they are not. She sent me some yarn from China and you can see that it is as fine as thread. She was my knitting hero and I longed to be able to knit that way. So before you are quick to judge, there are people whose knit-work is so "fine" that it looks as if it were done by machine.


----------



## Reteshandspun (Apr 25, 2013)

I think you could be right but why do some people think that "hand made" and "hand knitted" are the same thing. They are not and it's silly to pretend they are.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

I see a lot of different opinions here, but there's only one that matters.

_Legally,_ items knit on a knitting machine may be called "hand loomed" but if you claim it's hand knit, it had better be done by two hands with knitting needles.

There are laws about what you can and cannot say about things you're selling.

I suspect that you'd have to file a lawsuit against her to enforce it, but it's still the law.

I would have told her you're a knitter, and know the construction, and that this is _not_ what the law considers hand knit, and told her that she's leaving herself open to legal action by misrepresenting her wares.


----------



## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I personally think she was wrong as the items were not "hand knitted" but "hand made" which is entirely different and she should have claimed hand made not hand knitted, after all there is a difference between hand knitted and machine knitted. The stitches are more uniform than the hand knits. 
I was at the Royal Easter Show a few years ago and a man said to me in front of the machine knitters that they weren't the real deal. I know they take time to do their craft and it wouldn't take them to machine knit garments as it does with hand knits.


----------



## conniesews (Jul 16, 2011)

I sew also and my stuff is Hand Made. I do not have to say I used a machine, do I? I think it is Hand Made if she made it. You were right not to challenge her.


----------



## Capva (Jan 24, 2011)

If I may ask, were you at the craft fair in Moneta, Va?


----------



## sbeth53 (Mar 29, 2011)

I, like you, would have said nothing. They are hand made, and as you said very beautiful.


----------



## citymouse (May 17, 2014)

I believe that machine knitted items done by an individual can legally be called hand knit.


----------



## Sarla (Apr 22, 2013)

You did right not to say anything because you were not buying it . There is difference in hand knit & machine knit items if you are a knitter .


----------



## Peanut Tinker (Oct 10, 2012)

conniesews said:


> I sew also and my stuff is Hand Made. I do not have to say I used a machine, do I? I think it is Hand Made if she made it. You were right not to challenge her.


I was thinking the exact thing!!! I hand and machine knit, and I sew. All my friends and family who are recipients of my work understand that I have "hand made" the items. No one questions it, and I don't have to defend how I make items.....


----------



## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

I am most interested to know about the legislation which stipulates what different types of knitting are to be called.
I am not aware of any such law in Australia, which is not to say there isn't one.



lostarts said:


> I see a lot of different opinions here, but there's only one that matters.
> 
> _Legally,_ items knit on a knitting machine may be called "hand loomed" but if you claim it's hand knit, it had better be done by two hands with knitting needles.
> 
> ...


----------



## county.agent (Aug 31, 2012)

I do both hand-knitting and machine knitting. It is NOT a process where you punch a button and walk away. Machine knitting requires the same measuring, swatching, planning and hand-manipulation that hand-knitting does. And it's fun to do - just like hand-knitting. The machine just makes it a little faster.

If you sew a garment using a sewing machine, it is still considered hand made. Very few people stitch a garment together with nothing but a sewing needle and thread. The difference is simply TIME.


----------



## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

The question is What would you have accomplished by being loud and telling her they were not hand knit? Would it really made a difference in the world? Would you have felt better? I think not. She was not hurting anyone.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> I am most interested to know about the legislation which stipulates what different types of knitting are to be called.
> I am not aware of any such law in Australia, which is not to say there isn't one.


I have no idea where you would find this legislation. I have just read several articles in knitting magazines on the topic and the ones that mentioned knitting machines all said the same thing, specifically, that you are allowed to claim they are "hand loomed." This stood out in my memory because they're not actually loomed at all. I'm guessing that it's another senseless law made by lawmakers who haven't got a clue. It may not apply to all locations, but may be prevalent enough that not marking things this way would limit where things could legally be sold.

If anybody has any further info on this, we'd like to know.


----------



## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

I also have seen hand knitted garments done with such even stitches and complex colourwork that they ould easily be mistaken for commercially knitted garments.

Perhaps what is being considered here is the best way to differentiate between a commercially produced item and one crafted by an individual. 'Home made' is good for cakes, jams, pickles, but somehow doesn't have the same appeal for garments, whether knit with knitting needles or knitting machine, or sewn by hand or sewing machine. There doesn't appear to be an official standard so different people have a different idea of what the appropriate description should be.



cydneyjo said:


> My former assistant, from China, has a sister who knits by hand. Her knits are so exquisite, with the stitches so even and fine, that they look "machine-made," although I know that they are not. She sent me some yarn from China and you can see that it is as fine as thread. She was my knitting hero and I longed to be able to knit that way. So before you are quick to judge, there are people whose knit-work is so "fine" that it looks as if it were done by machine.


----------



## Beetytwird (Jan 19, 2011)

I do both, hand and machine knit. There is still a lot of 
"hand" work that goes into a machine knit article. This is especially true if you have a manual operated machine. All I find that my machines allow me to do is work a row faster. Using 50 to 135 needles all at once is much faster than 2! All seaming, finishing, "fancy" stitch work involves manipulating needles by hand to achieve the desired look. Lableing something that is machine knit as "hand made" or "home made" is perfectly alright with me. Glad you held your tongue, you are right about " what goes around comes around" . Seves no purpose.


----------



## snughollow (Aug 4, 2012)

It is good that you didn't say anything more. I am sure she put a lot of work in "Hand Making" these items. She could have used the words "hand made with my knitting machine".


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

Didn't mean to start a full blown argument here. I would not have done anything to embarrass the lady in public, which is why I said nothing. I would never have even thought of reporting her to the fair managers. As I said, the outfits were just gorgeous and I wished I had a baby in the family to buy one for. I do hand knit but have often wished I could afford a really good knitting machine as well, I would love to try one.


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

Machine knit (not commercial that is) still requires 'hand finishing' and I too would consider it hand knit.


----------



## Reteshandspun (Apr 25, 2013)

I think you were right to say something. She claimed to hand knit not hand made and she was wrong


----------



## beejay (May 27, 2011)

Hand made would have been the better thing for her to say but you were right not to pursue it any more. Wouldn't have accomplished a thing.


----------



## tribal (Aug 22, 2014)

They might be hand made by machine, but They definately are not Hand Knitted. I can do both, but Prefer hand knitting myself because it gives me something too do while Watching TV. There are some Beautiful Machine knitted Garments out there aswell. I can see where Customers would think they were really hand Knitted, It is the way she has worded it when she said Hand Made. some would interprit it as Hand Knitted. :lol:


----------



## tjmartinez2010 (Sep 11, 2012)

gwennieh68 said:


> I was at a large craft show this last weekend and there was a booth there with beautiful baby clothes. When I went to take a closer look the woman in the booth told me that they were all hand knitted items. They were very obviously machine knitted. Now, there is nothing wrong with machine knitting and the baby outfits were absolutely beautiful, little jackets with hoods, leggings with feet in them, exquisite colors etc., but they were, in my opinion, priced as if really hand knitted. I questioned it and she insisted again that they were hand knitted. I left it at that. I was telling my DIL later and she said she would have stated loudly that they were not hand knitted at all, so that other people around would know the woman was trying to cheat them. What would you have done? There was no question that any knitter would have known the difference.


I'm sorry, I tried to let this go, but for what it's worth, this is my opinion: each of these crafts are unique in their own way. They are no more related to each other than "hand knitting" and crochet. I for one, could never hand knit, but I do crochet. When I discovered knitting machines, I was thrilled. Now I could knit too. The machine is a tool, just like your needles. It HOLDS the stitches. There are some machines that have patterning (ie Fairisle) capabilities, but the vast majority of the work is HAND MANIPULATED by the individual. Some of the designers out there today blow my mind. We are only limited by our imagination and creativity. Machine knitting should not be looked down on simply because the tool is different. Many machine knitters are hand knitters that cannot knit by hand anymore.


----------



## whitetail (Feb 19, 2011)

I think it is good you didn't say anything. I don't machine knit but I think it looks like alike of work and is handmade just in a different manor.


----------



## tnbobie (Jan 19, 2014)

gwennieh68 said:


> I was at a large craft show this last weekend and there was a booth there with beautiful baby clothes. When I went to take a closer look the woman in the booth told me that they were all hand knitted items. They were very obviously machine knitted. Now, there is nothing wrong with machine knitting and the baby outfits were absolutely beautiful, little jackets with hoods, leggings with feet in them, exquisite colors etc., but they were, in my opinion, priced as if really hand knitted. I questioned it and she insisted again that they were hand knitted. I left it at that. I was telling my DIL later and she said she would have stated loudly that they were not hand knitted at all, so that other people around would know the woman was trying to cheat them. What would you have done? There was no question that any knitter would have known the difference.


It is the same as selling Imperial glass as Heisey glass. Heisey is WAY more expensive but unless you don't know what to look for, you can be fooled.
I think you did the right thing. Mention it once and then walk away. This is a no win situation.


----------



## czechmate (Jun 17, 2011)

you know the difference,and what does it matter,forget it and go on down the road.


----------



## Tokyoal (Mar 19, 2014)

It just occurred to me while reading this that when Sockit2me posts pictures of his beautiful work, that some people think it is machine knitted because it is so perfect and even. I have no doubt that he uses two needles (or circulars). I can't imagine anyone saying that my work was done on a machine. LOL


----------



## Tommier (Jul 20, 2013)

Bravo for you for not saying something. A friend of mine GAVE me a Brother Knitting Machine and I had to give it back and return to my needles. It was so confusing setting it up. Either way it isn't done in a factory setting and is unique.


----------



## rderemer (Nov 13, 2012)

gwennieh68 said:


> I agree she could call it hand made, but not hand knit, I think there's a difference. Both take lots of work though.


Agreed.


----------



## majormomma (Nov 2, 2011)

bakrmom said:


> Why is it even your business? As many have pointed out, many consider machine knit as hand-made. We are not talking mass produced factory made items here. There is a lot of skill that goes into using a knotting machine, too just as there is in using knitting needles or crochet hooks.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Metrogal (Mar 15, 2011)

It's best left unsaid. They still are made at home, even if by a machine. People will still find the work lovely. If we can't say something nice, we shouldn't say anything at all.


----------



## Maude52 (Aug 27, 2014)

I would not have challenged her, but a distinction should be made by the seller. Home made and hand made are not the same. For example, a home-made embroidery design or quilt done on a machine is definitely not the same as a hand sewn quilt or embroidery. 

Machine items are beautiful and take plenty of work, but they are home made, not hand made. Crafters should try to educate the public about the different ways homemade crafts can be done.


----------



## majormomma (Nov 2, 2011)

tjmartinez2010 said:


> I'm sorry, I tried to let this go, but for what it's worth, this is my opinion: each of these crafts are unique in their own way. They are no more related to each other than "hand knitting" and crochet. I for one, could never hand knit, but I do crochet. When I discovered knitting machines, I was thrilled. Now I could knit too. The machine is a tool, just like your needles. It HOLDS the stitches. There are some machines that have patterning (ie Fairisle) capabilities, but the vast majority of the work is HAND MANIPULATED by the individual. Some of the designers out there today blow my mind. We are only limited by our imagination and creativity. Machine knitting should not be looked down on simply because the tool is different. Many machine knitters are hand knitters that cannot knit by hand anymore.


 :thumbup: I agree completely with the above.

Per the original post, with reference to the vendor's pricing, have you considered how much money and time were spent on acquiring the machine (and attachments) and then learning how to use it proficiently? The machine can cost thousands of dollars. Machine knitting also requires a steep learning curve - it can take months or even years to become proficient. While straight knitting may go fast on a knitting machine, if you have to hand-manipulate the stitches, it can take nearly as long as hand-knitting, especially if the finishing work is done by hand. Is this person not allowed to recoup her investment?


----------



## swampygirl (Nov 1, 2011)

I would have made a point simply because she was advertising the items as hand knitted when they were not.
It' not difficult to distinguish between the two.
A case of misrepresentation. 
It's not on and if people keep quiet then cases like thiis are allowed to continue.
It's the principle.


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

I would never "look down" on machine knitters or anything else that someone had created, that was not my reason for starting this thread, it was really just the wording, to me hand knit means the two needle or circular method, hand made would be machine knitted! No way would I put anybody down about something like this. It was my DIL (who does not knit by the way), who said she would have confronted the lady.


----------



## Deanna W (May 4, 2011)

When I sell my machine knit items I tell my customer's that they are hand crafted. A lot of work goes into any item that is eather hand or machine knit.


----------



## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

It's best not to say anything.


----------



## Lise Paauw (Oct 17, 2013)

G


majormomma said:


> :thumbup: I agree completely with the above.
> 
> Per the original post, with reference to the vendor's pricing, have you considered how much money and time were spent on acquiring the machine (and attachments) and then learning how to use it proficiently? The machine can cost thousands of dollars. Machine knitting also requires a steep learning curve - it can take months or even years to become proficient. While straight knitting may go fast on a knitting machine, if you have to hand-manipulate the stitches, it can take nearly as long as hand-knitting, especially if the finishing work is done by hand. Is this person not allowed to recoup her investment?


I agree.

I must say this topic does bring out lots and lots of opinions, being new at machine knitting I can tell you this, it isn't an easy thing to learn in fact very complicated and time consuming. I sew, quilt, cross stich crochet and do some hand knitting but my opinion is that all crafts you must use your hands, mind and imagination and should be then not distinguish in the time that it takes to complete but the knowledge, skill and creativity of the items made. These are all crafts whether hand made or machine made that should be given same and equal respect and not distinguished.


----------



## Linda Mcg (May 20, 2011)

I do both and as said before machine knitting can be just as time consuming. I write my own patterns and use high end yarn. I have participated in high end art show since 1985, sometimes people are put off by the prices, if you are hand knitting you will never be able to charge for the time that it takes to make a garment, no one could afford your work, also in my prices are the cost of the booth, jury fees, travel cost including gas/motels ect. It's a business and I have to price accordingly. I love to hand knit, do it every day, but ,as I said have to forget about the time and just continue to love what I create.


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

In factories machine knitting totally different machine knit autmatically and then cut and joined etc but if you knitting on a knitting machine at home they come as hand knitted as well so there is no need to go and spread that she was saying something wrong and again may be she is a worker not the real person who use the machine etc so dont angry on her they come as hand knitted if they done by machine or needles but by operating a man or women they outfits get ready and comes in shape.


----------



## bizzyknitter (May 10, 2011)

What's the big deal? If you like what she is selling then buy it. What difference does it make if it's hand made or machine made.


----------



## MomLes (Aug 17, 2014)

I label my machine knitting "Crafted by hand on a vintage knitting machine." I charge based on the cost of the yarn, which is usually quite lovely, so my pieces are not cheap. They are at least as much work as hand knitting, although they might not take as much time.


----------



## amberdragon (Dec 12, 2011)

i have a short story to tell..years ago my beloved and i went to a national quilt show... we looked at and talked about each quilt...until we were standing in front of the "Best of Show" quilt... as we looked at it he said "it is not even hand quilted!! how can best of show?" and he said in that irate "man's voice" everyone standing around heard him. i didn't know whether to be embarrased or proud!!
hand quilted of not it was a beautiful quilt!!
Blessings


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

citymouse said:


> I believe that machine knitted items done by an individual can legally be called hand knit.


you are right they operated bu hands not without a person and legally they called hand knit but they using more pins instead knitting needles .


----------



## panddgon (May 8, 2011)

Several years ago I made a lacy baby blanket on my lk150. It was the first thing I made on a knitting machine. It was for my granddaughter. It was a shower gift. At the shower, when she opened it everybody thought it was very nice until my daughter in law mentioned that I used my knitting machine, I may as well have bought it at the store! Don't get me wrong, I don't expect compliments for the things I make but there was a big difference in the response I received for the gift!! It actually hurt my feelings and that doesn't happen often!!


----------



## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

I have tried machine knitting, and believe me, it is hard! Bought a terrific brothers machine over 20 years ago at deep discount and struggled with it for months before giving up. a few years later I bought a cheapie one thinking it would be easier, but nooooo. You have to do a whole lot of needle pulling out or switching over individual stitches to make any kind of pattern. It takes a lot of adjusting before you get to sweep the carriage arm across to make a row. I finally gave them both to goodwill last year. Bottom line - machine knitters are just as talented as I am with my two needle (and RELAXING) knitting.


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

What makes you so sure they were machine knitted? I have known knitters whose work was so perfect that it looked machine knitted.


----------



## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

I think machine knit ( not factory machine knit) is also hand knit.
I would not have said anything negative.

If SHE machine knit them, then I think they are hand knit by her.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

gwennieh68 said:


> I am glad I didn't say anything. As I said, the baby things were quite exquisite, I wished I had a little baby to buy them for but my youngest grandchild is over a year old and they would not have fit.


I wouldn't have said anything further to her, either. I would, however, certainly inform my less knitting wise friends of the difference between hand and machine knitting. I think she got the message that you weren't being fooled and there was nothing further to be gained by making a scene. This is not to say that machine knitting is in any way inferior, only different from hand knitting. I have also done both. For some reason, apparently the seller thinks hand knitting is superior or sells better, who knows?


----------



## Linda333 (Feb 26, 2011)

As a person who does not machine knit, how can you tell the difference between knitting done on needles and knitting done on a machine?


----------



## shepherd (Feb 25, 2012)

In my earlier times I bought a knitting machine from a friend and really did not like it - they may be easier to use now. I sold it. But even though it takes skill to do it on a machine at home, I would never consider calling it "hand-knit". There should be a better way to label it.


----------



## Jacquie (Feb 6, 2011)

Chrissy said:


> I agree its misleading, maybe report this to craft fair organisers?


A few years ago I was in a church bazaar that advertised 'All hand made items'. I was selling my beaded jewelry. The Mexican woman next to me had some hand made items, but most were items stamped "Made in Mexico" and were obviously NOT hand made. When I asked her about it, she claimed they were. After the show we were given sheets to critique it, and I mentioned the fact that some items there were not hand made as advertised. This lady was a member of the church and I was not.
I was not invited back the next year.


----------



## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

So true. And it is so much work to set up a booth and work with the public. What would be accomplished by making a scene? to prove oneself right? As for your DIL, one really never knows what one would do until she is in the position herself. So easy to speak up when not actually there.



Sewbizgirl said:


> "Hand knit" may mean something different to us hand knitters! Machine knitters (versus factory knitting machines) may also consider their wares "hand knit". You did right to just keep quiet about it and walk away. It's really not your business to police anyone else's craft booth.


----------



## Doriseve (Jul 7, 2014)

gwennieh68 said:


> I agree she could call it hand made, but not hand knit, I think there's a difference. Both take lots of work though.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Well she didn't claim that she had made them by hand. The fact the jewellery was made in Mexico does not stop it being hand made at all. There could, for example, be a group of people in Mexico making these items, stamping them with place of origin, then having one person selling them. She may even have purchased them from the crafters for the purpose of resale. These scenarios in no way mean the pieces were made by machine.



Jacquie said:


> A few years ago I was in a church bazaar that advertised 'All hand made items'. I was selling my beaded jewelry. The Mexican woman next to me had some hand made items, but most were items stamped "Made in Mexico" and were obviously NOT hand made. When I asked her about it, she claimed they were. After the show we were given sheets to critique it, and I mentioned the fact that some items there were not hand made as advertised. This lady was a member of the church and I was not.
> I was not invited back the next year.


----------



## bakrmom (May 30, 2011)

panddgon said:


> Several years ago I made a lacy baby blanket on my lk150. It was the first thing I made on a knitting machine. It was for my granddaughter. It was a shower gift. At the shower, when she opened it everybody thought it was very nice until my daughter in law mentioned that I used my knitting machine, I may as well have bought it at the store! Don't get me wrong, I don't expect compliments for the things I make but there was a big difference in the response I received for the gift!! It actually hurt my feelings and that doesn't happen often!!


I understand how you feel !! I also do English smocking and used to make heirloom dresses for my girls. Every time someone complimented the dresses my MIL had to say"she cheats!" because i used a pleater to make the pleats instead of iron on dots! REALLY!! I think she was just p^^^^^ that my work was getting noticed instead of her DDs.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> Well she didn't claim that she had made them by hand. The fact the jewellery was made in Mexico does not stop it being hand made at all. There could, for example, be a group of people in Mexico making these items, stamping them with place of origin, then having one person selling them. She may even have purchased them from the crafters for the purpose of resale. These scenarios in no way mean the pieces were made by machine.


Almost any jewelry that's marked as from Taxco, Mexico will be hand made. They have a thriving handmade silver jewelry industry going there.


----------



## ifangoch (Aug 28, 2012)

I agree that hand-made is a reasonable description, but hand-knitted would not be correct.

I make a lot of items with an electric sewing machine which I describe as handmade and no-one has ever challenged me.

If I was at a craft fair selling my work I would not appreciate someone making sure that everyone knew that in her opinion my work was not hand made.


----------



## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

I started knitting - both by "hand" and by machine about 45 years ago and was told by a reliable source that home machine knitting can legally be described as "hand knitting". According to the source, there arose a court case which settled the argument over 50 years ago when home knitting machines were becoming popular.


----------



## JCF (Aug 3, 2012)

seamer45 said:


> There isn't any way you can win this one. Most people won't know the difference. I ran into that problem once and mentioned it to the shop owner who had them for sale and she informed me they were hand knit and I was no longer welcome in her store.


Gee, how to win and influence customers. :thumbdown:


----------



## JCF (Aug 3, 2012)

If it is any consultation, I have a good friend who handknitted a sweater for her now deceased father. I know for a fact that she does not own a knitting machine. Her stitches were so absolutely even it looked like it could have been machine knitted but I personally know that it was not. At a fiber festival we attended, she got all sorts of compliments on the sweater from very experienced knitters. Sometimes it is hard to tell.


----------



## Karenno1 (Mar 17, 2014)

In a way machine knitting is hand made although I have never done it myself too complicated for my patience level ....and from what I've seen takes too long all the setting up , not bad once you get going ...., plus you can see the difference between knitted machine and needles ....so it's just splitting hairs really I would not have said anything ....if I wanted to buy fine if I thought i was being fleeced in anyway I'd jog on .


----------



## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

:thumbup: Im with you


----------



## Nancy S. (Jul 2, 2013)

Well, I definitely would not say anything like your DIL suggested. It is not only rude but you are calling her a liar. The way people are today, you may start an argument but she may end it (if you get my drift). I would have been very polite, thanked her for her time & walked off.

I agree with many of the other KPers, the items were hand made or hand knit it is up for interpretation r3garding the process.


----------



## ELareau (Nov 4, 2012)

I would not have "challenged" her. Machine knit is still hand knit as opposed to mass produced in a factory. Being rude to a vendor only reflects poorly on you.

People who are looking for handknit and willing to pay the price know the difference. 

That's just my opinion, and I know many on this forum would disagree, but that's what makes life interesting.


----------



## llamagenny (Feb 26, 2013)

I do both hand and machine knitting. Currently working on a vest that has hand manipulated lace bottom border (needles are on machine bed but you transfer them by hand to make the equivalent of yarn overs, decreases, etc.), stockinet done on machine and then from armholes up, knitted fabric is taken off the machine and woven cables are knit by hand as neckline is shaped. This is known as hybrid knitting. I would have no problem saying it is hand crafted or hand knit.


----------



## eneurian (May 4, 2011)

Reetz said:


> If I do the machine knit myself, I would still consider it "hand" made. Many non-knitters may not differentiate between hand knitting and a home-made machine knit.


if it is made on a machine it is never 'hand' knit. at that point every knit item in the world is hand knit as some one some where has to load the machine. I am offended by pseudo crafts.


----------



## sherryleigh (Dec 18, 2013)

Hand made is knitting or crocheting with knitting needles or hook and yarn in your own two hands.

Machine knitting is you using a machine to knit. the only difference in commercial machine knitting is their machine is prob bigger than yours. I think she should have told people, knitted by me on a machine because what she said was very misleading.

Just saying 
My own opinion, which I am entitled to.


----------



## PatCollins (Nov 19, 2011)

I have a knitting machine and knit by hand. If it is made at home and not a factory to me it is hand knit. You sit at a machine create and a robot is not doing it. Does a weaver have to say it is not hand woven. She is using a machine.


----------



## ceebee2001 (Jun 24, 2014)

I was a vendor at a craft show where every item was to have been made by the booth vendor. It was in the registration package in detail. One booth was obvious that items were commercially/factory made. The vendor hadn't even removed labels. I went to the organizers and laid my complaints out using their application as back up I asked that either the vendor remove her product or that rest of the vendors get a rebate on our booth fees and I would go to each vendor and inform them of the violation. The organizers did ask the vendor to leave. I would never have confronted the vendor as I would have no idea how they would behave, verbal or physical.
This was a weekend event (2 full days with a major fee attached) We had set up on a Friday evening and as I was heading to the washroom noticed the booth contents and checked it out)


----------



## alucalind (Jan 26, 2011)

My mother did a lot of machine knitting when she was alive. I used to tease her, but in reality it took a lot of skill, time and dedication to make. A knitting machine can be considered just another tool to craft something.

Just think if someone claimed you didn't hand sand or carve something because you used a power tool. I wouldn't have said anything, unless it was quite obviously store bought.



bonster said:


> I don't think it's appropriate to make a scene (and basically call her a liar). Different people have a different concept of "hand made". I'm sure it takes time and talent to use the knitting machine.


----------



## CarolA (Sep 4, 2013)

Reetz said:


> If I do the machine knit myself, I would still consider it "hand" made. Many non-knitters may not differentiate between hand knitting and a home-made machine knit.


I am not familiar with machine knitting as my family does it all with two sticks and a ball of yarn, but if a person does use a machine, isn't it still considered "hand made"? As opposed I suppose to mass produced knitted products? I am not trying to start a fight or discussion here, I am just asking since I don't know since I have no experience with machine knitting.


----------



## Maxine R (Apr 15, 2011)

Ronie said:


> I don't machine knit, but I know there is more to it than running the handle back and forth... I was raised in a VERY large family and we were told over and over again... _"If you can't say something nice! Don't say anything at all"_ it kept the peace in the family!! and we weren't bully's...
> in fact these items are hand made.. she didn't buy them and re-purposed them to sell... she made them!
> Should there be a different wording for hand machine made and needle made.. sure.. I'm not sure what it could be but I am sure someone could come up with some term that would separate the two... but in reality these are handmade..


I agree but I think that hand knitting is make with needles and not as quick to knit (of course that depends on the person) where as machine knitting is using a machine that would be a lot faster I'm not saying that its not hand knitted but there is a slight difference when you compare the two. I personally would say that they were machine knitted then there would be no confusion.


----------



## eneurian (May 4, 2011)

I really think the machine knitter has a problem with honesty. in the interest of full disclosure she should have owned up to the deception and change her claim. in today's society mass marketing has desensitized most of us to lies and treachery. caveat emptor


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Deb-Babbles said:


> I both hand knit and machine knit. Each is special unto its self. Sometimes I think the machine knitting takes a lot more work.
> I would not have said anything. If she is selling her work at the price point she is asking, well good for her. Would I tell others NO. If I have nothing nice to say then I try not to say anything at all. After all, Karma can bit me right back.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

Often times home machine knitting is labeled "hand loomed."
Hand knit and hand loomed should meet all qualifications.


----------



## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

gwennieh68 said:



> I was at a large craft show this last weekend and there was a booth there with beautiful baby clothes. When I went to take a closer look the woman in the booth told me that they were all hand knitted items. They were very obviously machine knitted. Now, there is nothing wrong with machine knitting and the baby outfits were absolutely beautiful, little jackets with hoods, leggings with feet in them, exquisite colors etc., but they were, in my opinion, priced as if really hand knitted. I questioned it and she insisted again that they were hand knitted. I left it at that. I was telling my DIL later and she said she would have stated loudly that they were not hand knitted at all, so that other people around would know the woman was trying to cheat them. What would you have done? There was no question that any knitter would have known the difference.


Just out of curiosoty, I have a fair coming in Nov, what was she asking and for what?


----------



## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

My daughter used to have a machine knit hat business. She went to many craft shows. She had a sign saying the hats were machine knit. She told me once that the machine knits that are stated as hand knits, the owners got away with it because they run their machines 'by hand'. Sort of a tricky way to get around it if you ask me. I am not saying machine knits are not as good, just that it's not quite true.


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Why is that "handwoven," (which has to be done on some kind of machine) is acceptable while there is so much snobbery attached to hand v machine knit? Most of what I would do on a machine is hand-manipulated, a very time-consuming process, so what would that be called? I hand knit most often because I can do it quicker than I can on a machine but sometimes my arthritis is alleviated when I do it on a machine.

Most non-knitters would not notice the difference anyway, and the people who are buying it are doing so because they like it. The real difference is between industrialized and non-industrialized. It's a very grey area. Would the same person complain about the wood carver who used a sander to finish the yarn bowl? Good luck to her if she can make money out of it. She is doing far less harm than the banks and insurance companies which pretend to look after your money and your health in your best interest.


bwtyer said:


> A friend of mine machine knits-her items are sold as "hand made", which they are. .
> In that lady's view,since she made it by hand , she might consider it hand knit. There are a lot on machine knitters on KP, maybe they can voice their opinion.
> I think it's good you didn't say anything- it would not have accomplished anything and it would have left both of you upset.


----------



## felix (Jul 13, 2011)

sounds like your daughter is a bully....stirring up trouble


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

My DIL is the type who would have made a big scene and made sure that anyone walking by would have heard her. I was glad she was not with me at the time. She is a wonderful girl in a lot of ways, but thinks she knows everything about everything if you know what I mean. I am still glad I said no more to the woman. It would just have embarrassed her and made me looke mean and rude, which I certainly hope I am not!


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

She was selling baby sets consisting of footed leggings and jacket with hood. They were in a variety of lovely pastel colors but all the same design, no difference in the pattern or anything. The were very beautiful. She was selling them for $125 a set.  I didn't see anybody actually buy a set, but as I stated before, if there had been a very young baby in the family I would have been very tempted to buy, they were so gorgeous although I personally would be hard pressed to spend that much, being retired. I would say they were worth it, but doubt she would sell very many at that price, it's a lot for a baby outfit.


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

It was my DIL, not my daughter, who is much more polite.


----------



## ruth Roxanne (Mar 18, 2012)

gwennieh68 said:


> I agree she could call it hand made, but not hand knit, I think there's a difference. Both take lots of work though.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## gginastoria (Jun 2, 2013)

Not exactly the same situation, but a local gallery with items for sale had a number of socks made with worsted wool on a sock machine which were labeled hand-knitted and priced accordingly. My socks made from fingering weight on #0 and #1 needles can take up to 40 hrs. to knit. I pointed out to the owner that the machine made socks were mislabeled and she strongly objected to my criticism.


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

I ask someone on PM if her item was hand-knitted or machine-knitted. This is the answer I got back "can't share it as it is copy right and belongs to a friend." 
the question was asked a few times on her thread but she would never answer if it was hand-knitted or not. 

I don't understand why what's the difference if you say it was hand-knitted or machine-knitted. :XD:


----------



## ireneofnc (Aug 15, 2011)

I would not have challenged her because it may have resulted in a very ugly scene. I don't like scenes and am not out to save the world. You knew what the deal was, and she was not going to cheat you. If she was cheating others, it will come back to haunt her. I think you did the right thing by not causing a scene.


----------



## sherrit (Jul 20, 2014)

Celt Knitter said:


> Why is that "handwoven," (which has to be done on some kind of machine) is acceptable while there is so much snobbery attached to hand v machine knit? Most of what I would do on a machine is hand-manipulated, a very time-consuming process, so what would that be called? I hand knit most often because I can do it quicker than I can on a machine but sometimes my arthritis is alleviated when I do it on a machine.
> 
> Most non-knitters would not notice the difference anyway, and the people who are buying it are doing so because they like it. The real difference is between industrialized and non-industrialized. It's a very grey area. Would the same person complain about the wood carver who used a sander to finish the yarn bowl? Good luck to her if she can make money out of it. She is doing far less harm than the banks and insurance companies which pretend to look after your money and your health in your best interest.


Let's just say "non-industrialized." Tee Hee :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## sherryleigh (Dec 18, 2013)

And that is your opinion which you are entitled to as is everyone else, and were not going to get anywhere, so I'm going to agree to disagree.


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

This summer at a Art Festival I rushed to a booth with hand knitted items with expensive price tags to find everything was hand loomed. The workmanship was perfect and the colors beautiful. I looked but said nothing and after she talked about the process using bulky wool to achieve the colors and the time it took to loom one scarf, purse and jacket I realized it took just as long if not longer than to knit by hand. I came away having a new respect for loom knitters.


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

PS...the lady made her living with her loom knitting. For anyone to make a negative comment in a loud voice for all to hear would be a nasty thing to do.


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Ditto...I tried loom knitting I could have shorn the sheep, washed, carded, spun the yarn and knitted the garment quicker


PaKnitter said:


> This summer at a Art Festival I rushed to a booth with hand knitted items with expensive price tags to find everything was hand loomed. The workmanship was perfect and the colors beautiful. I looked but said nothing and after she talked about the process using bulky wool to achieve the colors and the time it took to loom one scarf, purse and jacket I realized it took just as long if not longer than to knit by hand. I came away having a new respect for loom knitters.


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

PaKnitter said:


> PS...the lady made her living with her loom knitting. For anyone to make a negative comment in a loud voice for all to hear would be a nasty thing to do.


agreed very easy to point on others she is earning not begging.


----------



## Reteshandspun (Apr 25, 2013)

I really cannot see what the fuss is. The lady lied and the people who paid a huge price for her goods were being conned.


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

Reteshandspun said:


> I really cannot see what the fuss is. The lady lied and the people who paid a huge price for her goods were being conned.


She lied??? I have had people tell me they knit and they are crocheting.
There are many people on this forum who call acrylic yarns wool...are they liers to?
My daughter knits very little and can't tell the difference between a crochet item and a knit item. Or the right side from the wrong side half of the time. Because someone sees something differently doesn't mean they are liers.
And it was a art festivals not a flea market. Nothing is cheap there.


----------



## annweb (Feb 23, 2012)

My mother entered a competition in the local town .She had knitted me a sweater using two fine needles .A number of people commented that it had been done on a machine but I knew this was not the case .She was a superb knitter .Home made might be a better description .


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

What a huge insult to all the talented machine knitters on here at the very least. You are implying that their work is substandard.
:thumbdown:


Reteshandspun said:


> I really cannot see what the fuss is. The lady lied and the people who paid a huge price for her goods were being conned.


----------



## sherryleigh (Dec 18, 2013)

Sorry I wasn't going to say anything else.....but

But it is an insult to those of us who KNIT or Crochet by hand.
Our own two hands with needles and yarn w/o a machine.

Only the people who knit or Crochet with their own two hands will ever understand the point we are trying to explain to you and that is very sad.

So you get things done faster by machine, but I'm not knitting to get things done faster,I'm knitting for the joy of it, I love to knit and enjoy the time it takes me to finish a project, I love every minute! :-D


----------



## Reteshandspun (Apr 25, 2013)

A baby shawl knitted on a machine can be very beautiful, done in a day. The same shawl done by hand takes weeks, this is why people pay more. What is wrong with hand finished if you are really proud of your work, why hide the fact that it is done on a machine


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

sherryleigh said:


> Sorry I wasn't going to say anything else.....but
> 
> But it is an insult to those of us who KNIT or Crochet by hand.
> Our own two hands with needles and yarn w/o a machine.
> ...


Same words expressed by machine knitters... they love every minute of it.


----------



## bakrmom (May 30, 2011)

sherryleigh said:


> Sorry I wasn't going to say anything else.....but
> 
> But it is an insult to those of us who KNIT or Crochet by hand.
> Our own two hands with needles and yarn w/o a machine.
> ...


Must disagree. I knit, crochet and at one time had a machine. I am equally proud of my creations regardless of how they were made. They all take skill


----------



## Cheryl_K (May 23, 2011)

I wouldn't have said anything either. I think you did the right thing. I would think it would be up to the craft show organizer to say something if anyone did.


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

If your comment is addressed to me, please do not assume that I do not get your point. I hand knit and crochet most of what I do. Most machine knitter are also hand-knitters. You really don't understand machine knitting if you think that all it does is enable you to do something faster. Yes, of course, you can do some things faster, and many people have them for quick charity projects as well for craft shows etc. There are things you can do on a machine that you can't hand knit and vice versa. Textured knitting is quite limited on a machine, is extremely time consuming. However, dedicated machine knitters spend as much time and devotion to the design and knitting processes as hand knitters and it is big learning curve; most also have to create their own patterns nowadays. And, they use two hands and love their knitting too! It always amazes my that crafters of anything are so snotty about other people's crafts.


sherryleigh said:


> Sorry I wasn't going to say anything else.....but
> 
> But it is an insult to those of us who KNIT or Crochet by hand.
> Our own two hands with needles and yarn w/o a machine.
> ...


----------



## sherryleigh (Dec 18, 2013)

Celt knitter said:
It always amazes my that crafters of anything are so snotty about other people's crafts.

I have tried very hard not to call anyone names and "snotty"
was uncalled for. This a forum and everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion and I was expressing mine, without name calling.


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

sherryleigh said:


> Celt knitter said:
> It always amazes my that crafters of anything are so snotty about other people's crafts.
> 
> I have tried very hard not to call anyone names and "snotty"
> was uncalled for. This a forum and everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion and I was expressing mine, without name calling.


Maybe you should reread your own post today with a fresh pair of eyes.


----------



## sherryleigh (Dec 18, 2013)

I had a fresh pair of eyes last night.
Today is a new day and I'm not willing to waste anymore time on this subject.
Have a good day everyone


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

sherry you right is there anything we gain doing this .


----------



## majormomma (Nov 2, 2011)

Linda333 said:


> As a person who does not machine knit, how can you tell the difference between knitting done on needles and knitting done on a machine?


Good point! How is the quality of the knitting diminished if done on a knitting machine versus on knitting needles?


----------



## majormomma (Nov 2, 2011)

Jacquie said:


> A few years ago I was in a church bazaar that advertised 'All hand made items'. I was selling my beaded jewelry. The Mexican woman next to me had some hand made items, but most were items stamped "Made in Mexico" and were obviously NOT hand made. When I asked her about it, she claimed they were. After the show we were given sheets to critique it, and I mentioned the fact that some items there were not hand made as advertised. This lady was a member of the church and I was not.
> I was not invited back the next year.


They probably were hand knitted, but not by the vendor. Most juried shows forbid buy/sell items - they want the vendor to have crafted the items.


----------



## Maxine R (Apr 15, 2011)

sherryleigh said:


> I had a fresh pair of eyes last night.
> Today is a new day and I'm not willing to waste anymore time on this subject.
> Have a good day everyone


I agree with you we do all have our own opinion they can either like it or not, each to their own. Have a lovely day keep up the good work.


----------



## bizzyknitter (May 10, 2011)

I am a hand quilter, and to me that is the art of quilting. I would not even look at a machine quilted quilt. Well not anymore. I made a lap quilt for a craft show and time was running short. I thought I would try to machine quilt it. It was not so easy, I just couldn't do it, I made a mess of my quilt got so frustrated and I missed the show.
What I'm saying is don't be a snob and put peoples work down, they are done with time,care and effort not matter how it's made. All crafters are proud of their work. I know I am, aren't you? :thumbup:


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

welldone busyknitter .


----------



## ifangoch (Aug 28, 2012)

Hi Bizzyknitter
I'm also a quilter. I love hand quilting and machine quilting and whichever method I choose I still describe my work as hand made. As you have discovered, using a machine is not always a quick and easy way to complete something. Good free machine quilting is a skill that takes some time to acquire. I'm sure the same is true of good machine knitting.

I think rather than dis-respecting other crafters' work people should appreciate the time and effort that has gone into producing an item whether done totally by hand or whether a hand operated machine has been used. After all, how many people describe their cakes as home made when they have opened a box of cake mix and used a machine to mix it? We all do of course. Let's all show a little more tolerance towards others.


----------



## Reteshandspun (Apr 25, 2013)

Nobody has said one is better than the other but you really cannot say machine knitted is hand knitted. It is hand finished or hand crafted at the most.


----------



## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree if its hand-knitted or machine-knitted say what method was use. It doesn't matter which way was used. The point is don't lie about it if the item was machine-knitted and say it was hand-knitted.


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

I never intended to disrespect anyone when I started this thread, and I don't think I did disrespect the person or her work, in fact I mentioned numerous times how beautiful the items were that she was selling. I have also made quilts in the past, both hand and machine quilted, and if I was selling them at a craft fair I would expect to label them either hand quilted or machine quilted, just to inform a buyer who might not be able to tell the difference. I hand knit and do not machine knit but I do know how skilled machine knitting is and how time consuming. If I was selling hand knit and machine knit items at a craft show, I would expect to label them as such, so that consumers would know. They are both equally worthy, I never meant to imply that they were not.


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

better clarify first is machine knitted when one using her own machine at home comes under hand knitting and the most are agreed on that and I think when we knit at home operate manually the machine they come as hand knitting so why we arguing and making others not happy as in factories etc they computerised and if operated not by men they come under machine .


----------



## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

gwennieh68 said:



> I never intended to disrespect anyone when I started this thread, and I don't think I did disrespect the person or her work, in fact I mentioned numerous times how beautiful the items were that she was selling. I have also made quilts in the past, both hand and machine quilted, and if I was selling them at a craft fair I would expect to label them either hand quilted or machine quilted, just to inform a buyer who might not be able to tell the difference. I hand knit and do not machine knit but I do know how skilled machine knitting is and how time consuming. If I was selling hand knit and machine knit items at a craft show, I would expect to label them as such, so that consumers would know. They are both equally worthy, I never meant to imply that they were not.


I think the topic needs different tytle as you mentioned challenged so thats why the posts gone against you .


----------



## gwennieh68 (Sep 4, 2013)

If everyone reads the original post, I explained that I did not say anything further to the woman, but that when I went home I happened to mention to my DIL that the lady had been selling beautiful machine knitted items as hand knitted, not hand made, but hand knitted. I was really just describing the items and happened to mention in passing that they were not hand knitted as labeled, but machine knitted. My DIL said that she would have let everyone know that the items were mislabeled. I disagreed with my DIL but wondered if other knitters (my DIL does not knit either hand or machine) agreed with me or with her. Maybe I did mis-title the original post. I certainly would not have embarrassed the woman, although I have no doubt that my DIL would have, she is the type that likes to draw attention to herself.


----------



## Maxine R (Apr 15, 2011)

gwennieh68 said:


> If everyone reads the original post, I explained that I did not say anything further to the woman, but that when I went home I happened to mention to my DIL that the lady had been selling beautiful machine knitted items as hand knitted, not hand made, but hand knitted. I was really just describing the items and happened to mention in passing that they were not hand knitted as labeled, but machine knitted. My DIL said that she would have let everyone know that the items were mislabeled. I disagreed with my DIL but wondered if other knitters (my DIL does not knit either hand or machine) agreed with me or with her. Maybe I did mis-title the original post. I certainly would not have embarrassed the woman, although I have no doubt that my DIL would have, she is the type that likes to draw attention to herself.


You didn't say anything that would offend and I understand the situation a comment was made and thats all it was.


----------



## normancha (May 27, 2013)

ifangoch said:


> Hi Bizzyknitter
> I'm also a quilter. I love hand quilting and machine quilting and whichever method I choose I still describe my work as hand made. As you have discovered, using a machine is not always a quick and easy way to complete something. Good free machine quilting is a skill that takes some time to acquire. I'm sure the same is true of good machine knitting.
> 
> I think rather than dis-respecting other crafters' work people should appreciate the time and effort that has gone into producing an item whether done totally by hand or whether a hand operated machine has been used. After all, how many people describe their cakes as home made when they have opened a box of cake mix and used a machine to mix it? We all do of course. Let's all show a little more tolerance towards others.


Well said.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------

