# Obamacare #2



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, I remember something like that when my daughter was going to school. I was SO happy that we had good coverage.
> I think that it was something like $500. per semester or year, and pretty much worthless.


They were--and the university made no bones about the fact that these policies were simply to cover any legal obligation it had for those of us who lived on campus. I'm very glad these kinds of policies won't pass muster with the ACA. They're deceptive and a total waste of money.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

Apbarr wrote:
I hear you however I was able to get a quote from the website without giving any personal info. I won't be using it of course and hope after another year or so I don't get fined for using my employers healthcare.

And you all wonder why those who NEED to get on the site cannot.


jelun2 said:


> And you all wonder why those who NEED to get on the site cannot.


Good point. Also proves the report on FOX news about people getting "kinda locked in", whatever that means, to something they don't want, is simply false.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

ninal46 said:


> In my opinion, people that are buying into this "Obamacare/affordable" care are not looking at the big picture. First, I do NOT want government poking around into my health care - I don't trust them and I do not wish to be told where and when I can see a doctor - hence the reason I moved here from a country that HAS National Health. Secondly, the only way that Obamacare is going to work is making someone that is young and healthy pay for someone else's medical problems. I don't think that is fair. I believe we could have done much better had we stopped frivolous law suits against doctors. That way it would bring down their malpractice insurance and therefore their cost would have been adjusted. Then give everyone the ability to shop across state lines for insurances - who ever has lower rates and the plan fits your needs, then go with that plan. Also, allow one to take their insurance with them if they change employment ... and there are a lot more things we could have done. But no ... Obama, Pelosi and Reid pushed a health plan out that is - not ready, does not help those they claim it does and ruins health care for everyone. I have a right as an American Citizen to be truly upset that a President that should care for ALL Americans is so partisan that he ONLY cares about his political left wing. I have never taken a dime from the government - and I was a young mother divorced at 24 with 3 young children. I worked, and I worked until I got where I wanted. I sold magazines over the phone. I took all three kids door to door and sold Avon ...after attending school at night ... I got a better job. So, if I can do it, anyone can.
> There, I've had my rant and that is all I am going to say.


You have made some very good points. Obamacare could have been done so much better, especially if it had been broken up and the different problems addressed. There was no reason it had to be one enormous bill and not a few smaller bills. Instead, we got a 2600 page "law" that was barely read by Congress (Democrats) before being passed. What has also come out of this bill is thousands upon thousands of regulations and mandates that are no good for the economy. If this was really about the insurance industry and getting insurance for everyone, then they should have come up with legislation to change the industry. It's been done to the oil industry, the coal industry and a multitude of others over the years.

What bothers me the most is it is about control of the population. Why is it necessary to give your medical history and private information before you can even see the plans available? You can get a quote from insurance companies without giving away all the information this site requires. It was created to get this information and it will be shared with other agencies as well. Should you get online and apply, do make a point of reading the small print.

You should be very proud of yourself for raising your family on your own. Unfortunately, you are talking to a bunch here that don't think one can learn anything from an unskilled job. They just want to double the wages and keep them dependent on the government. The dumbing down of America starts in the school system and continues into the job market because these kids cannot/will not reach their potential.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You have made some very good points. Obamacare could have been done so much better, especially if it had been broken up and the different problems addressed. There was no reason it had to be one enormous bill and not a few smaller bills. Instead, we got a 2600 page "law" that was barely read by Congress (Democrats) before being passed. What has also come out of this bill is thousands upon thousands of regulations and mandates that are no good for the economy. If this was really about the insurance industry and getting insurance for everyone, then they should have come up with legislation to change the industry. It's been done to the oil industry, the coal industry and a multitude of others over the years.
> 
> What bothers me the most is it is about control of the population. Why is it necessary to give your medical history and private information before you can even see the plans available? You can get a quote from insurance companies without giving away all the information this site requires. It was created to get this information and it will be shared with other agencies as well. Should you get online and apply, do make a point of reading the small print.
> 
> You should be very proud of yourself for raising your family on your own. Unfortunately, you are talking to a bunch here that don't think one can learn anything from an unskilled job. They just want to double the wages and keep them dependent on the government. The dumbing down of America starts in the school system and continues into the job market because these kids cannot/will not reach their potential.


Nina, 
You should be so proud of yourself. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. 
Solo,
Again we agree.

Thanks so much - both of you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

karverr said:


> The thing I don't like about aca is when I get older and if I get cancer and need an operation I don't want my case heard by the Kevorkian board of death to see if I can have it. Why have
> insurance that when you need it it doesn't apply to you.


What is wrong with you people? Things like death panels and not giving care to those over 70 have been debunked time after time and you keep repeating them. I said earlier that republicans tell lies and keep telling them over and over even after they have been proven wrong. Some one said that was a silly statement, but here again you prove me right. Besides the fact that when you are older you will be on Medicare and won't be on the ACA, so don't you worry your pointed little heart about it. You are probably one of the people that already has insurance but you just can't stop yourself from trying to screw it up for someone who doesn't. Leave it alone and move on.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> WASHINGTONResponding to widespread criticism regarding its health care website, the federal government today unveiled its new, improved Obamacare program, which allows Americans to purchase health insurance after installing a software bundle contained on 35 floppy disks. I have heard the complaints about the existing website, and I can assure you that with this revised system, finding the right health care option for you and your family is as easy as loading 35 floppy disks sequentially into your disk drive and following the onscreen prompts, President Obama told reporters this morning, explaining that the nearly three dozen 3.5-inch diskettes contain all the data needed for individuals to enroll in the Health Insurance Marketplace, while noting that the updated Obamacare software is mouse-compatible and requires a 386 Pentium processor with at least 8 MB of system RAM to function properly. Just fire up MS-DOS, enter A:\>dir *.exe into the command line, and then follow the instructions to install the Obamacare batch filesit should only take four or five hours at the most. You can press F1 for help if you run into any problems. And be sure your monitors screen resolution is at 320 x 200 or it might not display properly. Obama added that the federal government hopes to have a sixCD-ROM version of the program available by 2016.
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-improved-obamacare-program-released-on-35-flop,34294/
> 
> Please consider the source of this info, but it just might be an improvement over what we have.


The source? Yes, the Onion--a website devoted to satirical pieces like "NRA Calls For Teachers To Keep Loaded Gun Pointed At Class For Entire School Day" and "Scientists Teach Sign Language To Gorilla-Suit-Wearing Man".

Let's see how long it takes the rightie rags to start running this as straight news...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

momeee said:


> joeysoma said:"I am watching the hearing on the Obamacare website. I'm wondering, who in their right mind, would sign up for something, and agree to pay for it without knowing the exact cost and exactly what it covers.
> 
> You are getting no more than a promise. And we know how good Obama's promises are. Remember, If you like your insurance you can keep it, period.
> 
> ...


OH, do you have to be so nasty. It was their insurance company that cancelled their policy because it did not meet the ACA requirements. The canceled policies are those that dont offer coverage broad enough to be considered as "qualified health plans" under the Affordable Care Act. This is more of a transition, Urbanek said, [senior vice president]. We are not terminating anyones coverage.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

ute4kp said:


> Anyone over the age of 75 will be thrown into the Grand Canyon. :twisted: :twisted:


You want your mammogram? Go get it!

:lol:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, thanks for posting. I can always use a good laugh.



joeysomma said:


> WASHINGTONResponding to widespread criticism regarding its health care website, the federal government today unveiled its new, improved Obamacare program, which allows Americans to purchase health insurance after installing a software bundle contained on 35 floppy disks. I have heard the complaints about the existing website, and I can assure you that with this revised system, finding the right health care option for you and your family is as easy as loading 35 floppy disks sequentially into your disk drive and following the onscreen prompts, President Obama told reporters this morning, explaining that the nearly three dozen 3.5-inch diskettes contain all the data needed for individuals to enroll in the Health Insurance Marketplace, while noting that the updated Obamacare software is mouse-compatible and requires a 386 Pentium processor with at least 8 MB of system RAM to function properly. Just fire up MS-DOS, enter A:\>dir *.exe into the command line, and then follow the instructions to install the Obamacare batch filesit should only take four or five hours at the most. You can press F1 for help if you run into any problems. And be sure your monitors screen resolution is at 320 x 200 or it might not display properly. Obama added that the federal government hopes to have a sixCD-ROM version of the program available by 2016.
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-improved-obamacare-program-released-on-35-flop,34294/
> 
> Please consider the source of this info, but it just might be an improvement over what we have.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

painthoss said:


> You want your mammogram? Go get it!
> 
> :lol:


HAHAHAHAAA


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nice, NJG, this is a complete lie, yet, you repeated the lie just like a loyal Democrat. Why do you show such contempt for Republicans and no respect? Is that the way you were raised?


Sorry, but I believe Dick Durbin, and I think the republicans have earned this lack of respect. Lets see, now shall we start to list all the lies you have chosen to believe and repeat? There isn't enough time or space for that. If republicans hadn't been so nasty and disrespectful, this wouldn't be so easy to believe.

Joe Wilson yells "you lie" during a speech on the house floor.

Governor Brewer of Arizona shoved a letter toward President Obama and, lectured him about immigration, and then pointed her finger directly in his face, like she was lecturing a child.

Back on June 25, 2010, again on TV, she fomented fear against allegedly frightening and dangerous men of color in connection with immigration by stating that, Our law enforcement agencies have found bodies in the desert  beheaded. However, when questioned, spokespersons from six county medical examiner departments, including four on the U.S.-Mexican border, said they never heard anything about any such decapitations.

Newt Gingrich, a top contender for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012, referred to President Obama as the most successful food stamp president in American history. Aside from the racist point he was trying to make, its obvious that Newt doesnt know that more whites than blacks receive food stamps (34 percent to 22 percent). On second thought, he does know. Hes just a lying racist who was verbally lighting the Klan cross for the many bigoted voters throughout the country. Its that same Newt who, during a November 23rd Republican debate, mentioned the President by name seven timesbut not once did he refer to him as President Obama. Instead, he called him Barack Obama four times and Obama three times. In fact, not one of the three leading Republican contenders, who collectively mentioned the President nine times during that debate, referred to him even once as President Obama, Mr. President, or the President.

About a week earlier, Kansas House Speaker Mike ONeal publicly cited a Bible verse calling for President Obama to be killed, his wife to be widowed, and his children to be orphaned. Hes the very same guy who forwarded an email to state house Republicans referring to the First Lady as Mrs. YoMamma. And Marilyn Davenport, an elected member of the Orange County (California) Republican Central Committee, forwarded her own email in April of last year that included a doctored photo of the President and his parents as monkeys. Four months later, Colorado Congressman Doug Lamborn candidly said during a radio interview that he didnt even want to have to be associated with  (President Obama). Its like touching a ******** 

In addition to this blatant disrespectful form of racism, theres the plausible deniability formlike when Congressional Republicans turned down the Presidents requests for meetings at the White House, refused to return his calls, and walked out of budget negotiations. Things got so bad that Speaker John Boehner on August 31, 2011 became the first speaker in history to tell a sitting president that he would not be permitted to deliver an address to a joint session of Congress on the date specifically requested by the White House.

The birther fiasco (2009-2011). No evidence. No proof. No documentation. But the story traveled on for years. Yes, Hawaii is part of the United States of America. That Trump was completely comfortable demanding that a U.S. President show him his papers displays a superiority complex that exists among those who cant accept someone they view as lesser in a position of power over them.

Deadbeat dad and one-termer Joe Walsh thinks his presence before the President actually matters and needs to tell everyone (Sept 2011). The disrespect isnt that probable one term Congressman Joe Walsh (R-IL) wouldnt attend the Presidents Sept. 8 speech. The disrespect is that Rep. Walsh actually believed that everyone knowing he wasnt attending was important. That he needed to announce he would not attend on national television, as if anyone cared, was yet another delusional superiority episode. That proudly showing public disrespect towards the President is a winning strategy in some political circles reveals a lot.

Newt Gingrichs Kenyan anti-colonial behavior comment (Sept 2010). Even Washington Post columnist and conservative thinker George Will slammed this attempt to define the President as foreign. Never mind the facts: President Obama wasnt reared by his father in Kenya with whom he spent only a month of his 50 years on this earth. The strategy to define the President as a foreign or alien being was started by Sarah Palin in 2008.

GOP House, prompted by Tea Party  refuses to raise debt ceiling (Aug 2011). Sounds like this was just hardball politics right? Lets review the facts: The debt ceiling had been raised 69 times since 1962 without incident. Seven times during Bush II and 18 times during Reagan. Suddenly, with President Obama, a shiny new precedent is set with regard to raising the debt ceiling. Another never before seen incident is born. And soon we will be going through this again.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) Publicly Announces His Top Political Priority (Dec 2010). McConnell wants the President out of office? No news there, but, wait, theres more to it. Our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term, Sen. McConnell told the Heritage Foundation, and he had to say it in public and on national television.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Sorry, but I believe Dick Durbin and the republicans have earned this lack of respect. Lets see, now shall we start to list all the lies you have chosen to believe and repeat? There isn't enough time or space for that. If republicans hadn't been so nasty and disrespectful, this wouldn't be so easy to believe.
> 
> Joe Wilson yells "you lie" during a speech on the house floor.
> 
> ...


Dick Durbin, of Ill., is a Democrat! You seem to be very informed with the minutiae of Republican anti-O. pronouncements, yet, there are just as many, if not a much greater number of anti-Republican and Bush statements. In the interest of fairness...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I am smelling some Rats who are chewing on the system to destroy it. Know what I mean?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Happily, that's looking more and more likely:
> 
> *NEW CNN poll - Majority do not want Republicans in control of House*
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/21/politics/cnn-poll-gop-boehner-shutdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
> ...


Besides that we have another debt ceiling fight coming in a short while. Lets see how the republicans handle that one.


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## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> I am smelling some Rats who are chewing on the system to destroy it. Know what I mean?


You are 100% right and the lead rat's name is Obama and the reason you can smell a rat is each of yall have your head up the rat in front butt.that way you hear nothing and see nothing but what the rat in front wants you to see and hear.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I just heard Senator Tom Harkin say he tried and tried and tried to get the money to set up the ACA web site as it should have been done, but the republicans would not let it go through, so lets put the blame where it belongs.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Dick Durbin, of Ill., is a Democrat! You seem to be very informed with the minutiae of Republican anti-O. pronouncements, yet, there are just as many, if not a much greater number of anti-Republican and Bush statements. In the interest of fairness...


In the interest of fairness, go right ahead... 
do the work, educate us. Please look up every time a legislator called President Bush a liar to his face, look up everytime a self proclaimed multi-millionaire asked President Bush for his college records, for his flight records, list for us every time a public figure has stated that President Bush didn't understand how Americans think. 
I would love to see this. Check out each time that a USSC justice acted inappropriately while President Bush was giving a State of the Union address.
It is not about the party, it is about the President, respect for the office.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I just heard Senator Tom Harkin say he tried and tried and tried to get the money to set up the ACA web site as it should have been done, but the republicans would not let it go through, so lets put the blame where it belongs.


It will all fall out, Empress NJG, sane people will believe the truth. The others... well, who gives a roaring fig what they believe.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> WASHINGTONResponding to widespread criticism regarding its health care website, the federal government today unveiled its new, improved Obamacare program, which allows Americans to purchase health insurance after installing a software bundle contained on 35 floppy disks. I have heard the complaints about the existing website, and I can assure you that with this revised system, finding the right health care option for you and your family is as easy as loading 35 floppy disks sequentially into your disk drive and following the onscreen prompts, President Obama told reporters this morning, explaining that the nearly three dozen 3.5-inch diskettes contain all the data needed for individuals to enroll in the Health Insurance Marketplace, while noting that the updated Obamacare software is mouse-compatible and requires a 386 Pentium processor with at least 8 MB of system RAM to function properly. Just fire up MS-DOS, enter A:\>dir *.exe into the command line, and then follow the instructions to install the Obamacare batch filesit should only take four or five hours at the most. You can press F1 for help if you run into any problems. And be sure your monitors screen resolution is at 320 x 200 or it might not display properly. Obama added that the federal government hopes to have a sixCD-ROM version of the program available by 2016.
> 
> http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-improved-obamacare-program-released-on-35-flop,34294/
> 
> Please consider the source of this info, but it just might be an improvement over what we have.


Joey, you do realize what the Onion is don't you?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Joey, you do realize what the Onion is don't you?


Yes he does. He just knows that the idiots on this thread don't and will get all flipped out.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

painthoss said:


> Apbarr wrote:
> I hear you however I was able to get a quote from the website without giving any personal info. I won't be using it of course and hope after another year or so I don't get fined for using my employers healthcare.
> 
> And you all wonder why those who NEED to get on the site cannot.
> ...


And then we have the people who think they got an accurate quote without giving any accurate info. <smh> How do they think that happens, really?

You can't buy a dress without narrowing down your options, how the heck can you buy health insurance without looking at the darts and seams?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Dick Durbin, of Ill., is a Democrat! You seem to be very informed with the minutiae of Republican anti-O. pronouncements, yet, there are just as many, if not a much greater number of anti-Republican and Bush statements. In the interest of fairness...


Yes, I know Dick Durbin is a democrat. Please tell me what lack of respect the democrats have shown to republican presidents. Who yelled at Bush on the house floor and called him a liar. Sorry but there is nothing to compare to the way President Obama has been treated.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This Court Ruling Could Bring Obamacare Down
> 
> Posted By Mark Horne on Oct 24, 2013
> 
> ...


One really does have to wonder why you can't just use a respectable source for your news.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/22/us-usa-courts-obamacare-idUSBRE99L14E20131022


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This Court Ruling Could Bring Obamacare Down
> 
> Posted By Mark Horne on Oct 24, 2013
> 
> ...


Mark Horne is just another right wing nut that reports things as he would like them to be, not how they actually are.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Empress NJG
That is exactly what they like, conspiracy theorists and people who like to twist issues until they see what they want to see. 
I used to deal with it all the time when I was doing union stuff. 
Sheesh, people would pick one phrase in the contract and decide it meant they could have sex on the floor of the director's office every half hour. 
It was crazy and so is this crap.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Empress NJG
> That is exactly what they like, conspiracy theorists and people who like to twist issues until they see what they want to see.
> I used to deal with it all the time when I was doing union stuff.
> Sheesh, people would pick one phrase in the contract and decide it meant they could have sex on the floor of the director's office every half hour.
> It was crazy and so is this crap.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

As an Australian I would like to say that I am totally disgusted by some of the names people call your President. He is a world leader, he deserves respect. These nasty comments are totally unnecessary. 

Do the people who make these disgusting comments, and they are disgusting comments, ever stop to think what people in the rest of the world think about them and Americans in general, when they read these comments. I will tell you, they do not think very highly of people who make them. They just come across as nasty beings.

Please, your side and your candidate lost the last two elections. Get over it and work towards the next election. Remember, some candidates win elections and some lose elections. That is sometimes why the winner won, they won because the other candidate lost due to poor performance.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> According to Dick Durbin, there was a leading republican from the house said to our President, "I can't even stand to look at you." No names associated with it yet, but I hope it comes out so we know who said it. Why do some republicans show such a lack of respect to the president? I just don't understand. Is that the way they raised their kids? No wonder this country has so many problems, when people like that are elected to office.


Now they are saying Pete Sessions is the one who said it. When a reporter asked him about it, he didn't immediately deny he said it. He started talking about if someone taped the conversation, that that was wrong. Then when they said it sounds like you are making excuses instead of out and out denying it, so then he denied it. Just sounded all a little phony.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Are you saying there is no court case? So what will happen to the people when the judge rules against the administration?


You have no idea which way the ruling will go, or what will happen when it goes to the USSC. 
You see we have this expectation in this nation of equal treatment under the law.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Now they are saying Pete Sessions is the one who said it. When a reporter asked him about it, he didn't immediately deny he said it. He started talking about if someone taped the conversation, that that was wrong. Then when they said it sounds like you are making excuses instead of out and out denying it, so then he denied it. Just sounded all a little phony.


It would be really hard to tape something that wasn't said.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It would be really hard to tape something that wasn't said.


No one has said anything about a tape, except Sessions. He is the one that brought it up. That is why it sounds like he was worried that he had been taped and then there would be proof that he said it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> No one has said anything about a tape, except Sessions. He is the one that brought it up. That is why it sounds like he was worried that he had been taped and then there would be proof that he said it.


That's what I'm thinking.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Now the right, Palin for instance, is saying that the fainting pregnant lady at President Obamas speech in the Rose Garden yesterday was all set up to somehow promote the ACA!!!!! They will stop at nothing, but then I guess that is all they have. They have nothing to offer so they just have to slam the other side.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Now the right, Palin for instance, is saying that the fainting pregnant lady at President Obamas speech in the Rose Garden yesterday was all set up to somehow promote the ACA!!!!! They will stop at nothing, but then I guess that is all they have. They have nothing to offer so they just have to slam the other side.


Wailin' Palin?
It's a good thing she didn't get elected. It would have been VERY hard to keep a civil tongue.


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> As an Australian I would like to say that I am totally disgusted by some of the names people call your President. He is a world leader, he deserves respect. These nasty comments are totally unnecessary.
> 
> Do the people who make these disgusting comments, and they are disgusting comments, ever stop to think what people in the rest of the world think about them and Americans in general, when they read these comments. I will tell you, they do not think very highly of people who make them. They just come across as nasty beings.
> 
> Please, your side and your candidate lost the last two elections. Get over it and work towards the next election. Remember, some candidates win elections and some lose elections. That is sometimes why the winner won, they won because the other candidate lost due to poor performance.


I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing. 
( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


Maybe you had an idealized view of what you were emigrating to. This has always been a nation that swings from one station on the political spectrum to another.
I don't really care about why you weep. It is absurd. If you didn't understand the nation you were coming to maybe you should have stayed where you were.

I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! 
Thanks for that honesty.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

karverr said:


> You are 100% right and the lead rat's name is Obama and the reason you can smell a rat is each of yall have your head up the rat in front butt.that way you hear nothing and see nothing but what the rat in front wants you to see and hear.


I love it Karverr.

Everyone should read this posted in today's Wall Street Journal:

WSJ's Henninger: Obama's 'Credibility Melting'

Thursday, 24 Oct 2013 12:32 PM

By Dan Weil

The many woes facing Obamacare represent just one part of the deteriorating Obama presidency, according to Wall Street Journal columnist Daniel Henninger.

"From the moment he emerged in the public eye, . . . Barack Obama's calling card has been credibility," Henninger writes. "All of a sudden, from Washington to Riyadh, Barack Obama's credibility is melting."

Urgent: ObamaCare Is About to Strike  Are You Prepared?

Take the issue of immigration. Sen. Marco Rubio said the chance for immigration reform is virtually nil, because of "a lack of trust" in Obama.

Rubio said he and reform advocates fear that if they reach an agreement with the president, perhaps offering a path to citizenship in exchange for strong enforcement, Obama will leave them in the cold by abandoning the enforcement provision.

"When belief in the average politician's word diminishes, the political world marks him down and moves away," Henninger says.

Another example of Obama's waning credibility came last weekend, when Saudi Arabia declined a seat on the U.N. Security Council, Henninger writes.

"Global disbelief gave way fast to clear understanding: the Saudis have decided that the United States is no longer a reliable partner in Middle Eastern affairs."

Obama just isnt viewed as a reliable partner by those who would do business with him, Henninger says. "They don't trust him. Whether it's the Saudis, the Syrian rebels, the French, the Iraqis, the unpivoted Asians or the congressional Republicans, they've all had their fill of coming up on the short end with so mercurial a U.S. president."

The lack of faith in Obama could also poison coming budget negotiations between the two parties in Congress, Henninger says.

"The bad air over this effort is the same as that Marco Rubio says is choking immigration reform: the fear that Mr. Obama will urge the process forward in public and then blow up any . . . agreement at the 11th hour with deal-killing demands for greater tax revenue."

Urgent: ObamaCare Is About to Strike  Are You Prepared?

Related Stories:

Obama's Approval Ratings Plunge in 3 Months of Upheaval
Merkel Calls Obama, Demands 'Clarification' on Spying

© 2013 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/henninger-obama-credibility-melting/2013/10/24/id/532888#ixzz2igTskcO5 
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh Lord, I should have known you didn't get that from the WSJ.



Lukelucy said:


> I love it Karverr.
> 
> Everyone should read this posted in today's Wall Street Journal:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!


----------



## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Maybe you had an idealized view of what you were emigrating to. This has always been a nation that swings from one station on the political spectrum to another.
> I don't really care about why you weep. It is absurd. If you didn't understand the nation you were coming to maybe you should have stayed where you were.


Perfect reply from someone like you. I've been in America for almost fifty years. And you know nothing of why I came here. But then I expected nothing less from you after reading your dribble. I bid you a good night I have knitting to do.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Maybe you had an idealized view of what you were emigrating to. This has always been a nation that swings from one station on the political spectrum to another.
> I don't really care about why you weep. It is absurd. If you didn't understand the nation you were coming to maybe you should have stayed where you were.
> 
> I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white!
> Thanks for that honesty.


Yes, if nothing else Nina is honest. The final sentence of her post tells us all we need to know. Disgusting--and that's putting it mildly.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> Perfect reply from someone like you. I've been in America for almost fifty years. And you know nothing of why I came here. But then I expected nothing less from you after reading your dribble. I bid you a good night I have knitting to do.


And my mother came here from another country. And my grandparents. Dribble is such a great adjective. You are wise, Nina.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> And my mother came here from another country. And my grandparents. Dribble is such a great adjective. You are wise, Nina.


She used it as a noun. 
We all came here from somewhere else. Even the indigenous people were initially in Asia, most likely.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I've actually begun to wonder if there hasn't been some sabotage going on.


Not true as just those Democrats who cannot do anything right, but dumb people follow them anyway.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> She used it as a noun.
> We all came here from somewhere else. Even the indigenous people were initially in Asia, most likely.


Not me--my ancestors were born here. . .the rest of you are foreigners!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


Great post thank you very much.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Now the right, Palin for instance, is saying that the fainting pregnant lady at President Obamas speech in the Rose Garden yesterday was all set up to somehow promote the ACA!!!!! They will stop at nothing, but then I guess that is all they have. They have nothing to offer so they just have to slam the other side.


The Democrats will do anything to take the heat off the web site that isn't working! Give me a break!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Not me--my ancestors were born here. . .the rest of you are foreigners!


Sorry, Janeway--genetic testing shows that the ancestors of Native Americans hailed from Siberia. Your people were at some point immigrants too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Janeway--genetic testing shows that the ancestors of Native Americans hailed from Siberia. Your people were at some point immigrants too.


Oh no, Oh no, that can't be true.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh no, Oh no, that can't be true.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Joey, you do realize what the Onion is don't you?


NJG 
you expect too much.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Not me--my ancestors were born here. . .the rest of you are foreigners!


Janeway
even unfamiliar with your Ancestry I see. Yes, they have been here first as far as we know but no originals to our Country. Immigrants just as the rest of us.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> The Democrats will do anything to take the heat off the web site that isn't working! Give me a break!


Janeway
no heat just frustration as with anything new like me and my new Computer with Windows 8. What a mess that program turned out to be. Bush's Prescription Program ran into problems but as our elected Politicians should do, the Democrats worked hard with the Republicans to help fix the problem. Learning of course is not something the Republicans are kown for, destructive behavior is their forte'.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And my mother came here from another country. And my grandparents. Dribble is such a great adjective. You are wise, Nina.


Mine, too. So what?
Dribble's an adjective?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


I did not know about the picture of President Bush posted on your co-workers door. It showed a lack of respect, which has increased 10 fold since Barack Obama was elected as president, not once but twice. Bleeding liberals I would say is name calling on your part maybe you protest too much. So if President Obama were 100% African American, would you then be able to hate him because he is black? That was a strange statement you made. I guarantee you we will not destroy this country. What policies of our president do you think are bad for America? When President Bush was in office I did not hear any democrats say they were going to make him a one term president. I did not hear any democrat yell at him in the middle of a speech and tell him he lied. The democrats did not hold a meeting on the day President Bush was inaugurated and make the plan that they would stop him in everything he wanted to do, even if it destroyed our country. President Obama was elected twice by the people not once by the supreme court, like President Bush was. I can't even imaging what the republicans would have done had President Obama been elected by the supreme court. They would have done something, just not sure what it would have been. Republicans are constantly talking impeachment, when in reality President Bush and VP Cheney are the ones who should have been impeached for the underhanded way they started the war in Iraq. I'll bet you didn't watch the MSNBC special called Hubris, did you. That explained a lot about the Iraq war. Now the republicans are trying to restrict voting rights, like in Texas and North Carolina. So who is it now is trying to destroy this country?
The man from North Carolina who was interviewed for the Daily Show that ran on 10/23 was fired from his position today because of his truthfulness on how he felt about why they are changing their voting laws. He said he had been called a bigot and seemed proud of it. That is the kind of republicans that are trying to destroy this country. Only difference is he pretty much admitted his feelings but those in Washington don't do that, they look you in the eye and lie.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Mine, too. So what?
> Dribble's an adjective?


I guess it can be either a verb or a noun--maybe Nina meant _drivel_?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I guess it can be either a verb or a noun--maybe Nina meant _drivel_?


Either one is fine with me!


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Those of us who are in with the in crowd are going to designate who the over 65 victims should be, those people are going to be done in. THEN as we have the power we are going to grab all those beautiful belongings, the homes, the vehicles, the lake views, and OMG, the yarn. Millions and millions of skeins and hanks of yarn.
> That is what this whole thing is REALLY about, stealing all the stashes.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> I did not know about the picture of President Bush posted on your co-workers door. It showed a lack of respect, which has increased 10 fold since Barack Obama was elected as president, not once but twice. Bleeding liberals I would say is name calling on your part maybe you protest too much. So if President Obama were 100% African American, would you then be able to hate him because he is black? That was a strange statement you made. I guarantee you we will not destroy this country. What policies of our president do you think are bad for America? When President Bush was in office I did not hear any democrats say they were going to make him a one term president. I did not hear any democrat yell at him in the middle of a speech and tell him he lied. The democrats did not hold a meeting on the day President Bush was inaugurated and make the plan that they would stop him in everything he wanted to do, even if it destroyed our country. President Obama was elected twice by the people not once by the supreme court, like President Bush was. I can't even imaging what the republicans would have done had President Obama been elected by the supreme court. They would have done something, just not sure what it would have been. Republicans are constantly talking impeachment, when in reality President Bush and VP Cheney are the ones who should have been impeached for the underhanded way they started the war in Iraq. I'll bet you didn't watch the MSNBC special called Hubris, did you. That explained a lot about the Iraq war. Now the republicans are trying to restrict voting rights, like in Texas and North Carolina. So who is it now is trying to destroy this country?
> The man from North Carolina who was interviewed for the Daily Show that ran on 10/23 was fired from his position today because of his truthfulness on how he felt about why they are changing their voting laws. He said he had been called a bigot and seemed proud of it. That is the kind of republicans that are trying to destroy this country. Only difference is he pretty much admitted his feelings but those in Washington don't do that, they look you in the eye and lie.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Chris Harris (Oct 17, 2013)

There is no such thing a free Medicare... The money comes out of citizens pockets who work very hard. We really need to stop helping free loading people who just use the system because they are to lazy to work. As for Michelle and Sarah they are very honest ladies. We need more women like them in the white house.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> There is no such thing a free Medicare... The money comes out of citizens pockets who work very hard. We really need to stop helping free loading people who just use the system because they are to lazy to work. As for Michelle and Sarah they are very honest ladies. We need more women like them in the white house.


You have to be putting us on, right??


----------



## NYBev (Aug 23, 2011)

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
 
by letting the government take care of him, better 
 
take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think you need to go farther back than that. To Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.


Possibly so--but the point remains that the Native Americans didn't just materialize out of thin air. North and South America were uninhabited before people came trooping over from Siberia--immigrants all.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Not me--my ancestors were born here. . .the rest of you are foreigners!


Your ancestors were wooly mammoths or sabre tooths? Or do you mean "native Americans?" If so, they are immigrants too, their ancestors came over the land bridge that connected this continent to Asia...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NYBev said:


> "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
> 
> by letting the government take care of him, better
> 
> take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford


Yes, well. We all know that Henry Ford was a bigot who was good at figuring out a market for his product.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Your ancestors were wooly mammoths or sabre tooths? Or do you mean "native Americans?" If so, they are immigrants too, their ancestors came over the land bridge that connected this continent to Asia...


I think, if I recall, she uses the term Indian. I am the ignorant one who used Native American or indigenous peoples.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NYBev said:


> "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
> 
> by letting the government take care of him, better
> 
> take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford


Thank you as many American Indians are still living in poverty today thanks to the government!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

...another stupido who doesn't know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid...stupid and ignorant.



alcameron said:


> You have to be putting us on, right??


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Your ancestors were wooly mammoths or sabre tooths? Or do you mean "native Americans?" If so, they are immigrants too, their ancestors came over the land bridge that connected this continent to Asia...


There isn't really any evidence of the American Indians walking over the land bridge, but it is a guessing game. The Indians of Alaska resemble the people from Mongolia, but the American Indians do not resemble any Chinese.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, well. We all know that Henry Ford was a bigot who was good at figuring out a market for his product.


You are good at name calling tonight! Shame, shame!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> There is no such thing a free Medicare... The money comes out of citizens pockets who work very hard. We really need to stop helping free loading people who just use the system because they are to lazy to work. As for Michelle and Sarah they are very honest ladies.
> 
> I hope you are meaning Michelle Bachman & Sarah Palin.


----------



## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I am watching the hearing on the Obamacare website. I'm wondering, who in their right mind, would sign up for something, and agree to pay for it without knowing the exact cost and exactly what it covers.
> 
> You are getting no more than a promise. And we know how good Obama's promises are. Remember, If you like your insurance you can keep it, period.
> 
> Tell that to the 300,000+ people in Florida who recently lost their insurance.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Voting officials in Texas are getting more crazy all the time. When a married woman gets a drivers license she has to put her maiden name as her middle name and leave her real middle name off. My understanding is that was law, since 1964. Now you go to vote and your two forms of ID don't match. Was this all done on purpose to hinder women being able to vote or was it an accident, something they just didn't think about.
A woman in Pennsylvania went to get her ID with her ss card and her birth certificate. She had never driven-no drivers license-and she was Jewish so her marriage certificate was in Hebrew so they couldn't read it. Her problem was the birth certificate and ss card were both in her maiden name. Imagine that, her birth certificate was in her maiden name!!! Yes she could have gotten her ss card changed to her married name, but then they wouldn't have matched either.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> There isn't really any evidence of the American Indians walking over the land bridge, but it is a guessing game. The Indians of Alaska resemble the people from Mongolia, but the American Indians do not resemble any Chinese.


Yes, there is. And those crossing the land bridge didn't necessarily originate in what we know today as China.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121130151606.htm

"There is a genetic link between the paleolithic population of Europe and modern Native Americans. The evidence is that the population that crossed the Bering Strait from Siberia into the Americas more than 15,000 years ago was likely related to the ancient population of Europe."

Also there is the fact that the earliest fossil evidence of humans in the New World only dates back 13,000 - 15,000 years ago.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Not true as just those Democrats who cannot do anything right, but dumb people follow them anyway.


Does that mean you don't intend to collect the Democratically created Social Security?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Voting officials in Texas are getting more crazy all the time. When a married woman gets a drivers license she has to put her maiden name as her middle name and leave her real middle name off. My understanding is that was law, since 1964. Now you go to vote and your two forms of ID don't match. Was this all done on purpose to hinder women being able to vote or was it an accident, something they just didn't think about.
> A woman in Pennsylvania went to get her ID with her ss card and her birth certificate. She had never driven-no drivers license-and she was Jewish so her marriage certificate was in Hebrew so they couldn't read it. Her problem was the birth certificate and ss card were both in her maiden name. Imagine that, her birth certificate was in her maiden name!!! Yes she could have gotten her ss card changed to her married name, but then they wouldn't have matched either.


All to avoid non-existent fraud in voting.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Yes, there is. And those crossing the land bridge didn't necessarily originate in what we know today as China.
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121130151606.htm
> 
> ...


Oh now, don't go all DNA on us. Do you have pictures of people crossing from one continent to the other?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Has anyone watched any of the hearings on the roll out of the ACA as they were replayed on MSNBC today? It is amazing to listen to republicans talking back when Medicare Part D was being discussed and how they all said just give it time. There are always glitches but we will get them fixed. Listen to those same republicans today and they are just outraged that there are glitches and it isn't getting any better. Here comes my favorite word used to describe the republicans again. HYPOCRITE


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> There isn't really any evidence of the American Indians walking over the land bridge, but it is a guessing game. The Indians of Alaska resemble the people from Mongolia, but the American Indians do not resemble any Chinese.


How much they look alike is subject to debate, but there's no arguing with what the DNA says. From the Encyclopedia Smithsonian:

"Evidence for diverse migrations into the New World also comes from Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) research on living American Indian populations. These studies have consistently shown similarities between American Indians and recent populations in Asia and Siberia, but also unique American characteristics, which the very early crania have also shown. Evidence for only four mtDNA lineages, characterizing over 95 percent of all modern American Indian populations, may suggest a limited number of founding groups migrating from Asia into the New World."


----------



## NYBev (Aug 23, 2011)

What does that have to do with how the government took care of Native Americans?


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

Bloomers wrote:
...Obama and his agenda has, effectually, destroyed the United States. He has broken the back of the family unit, and, the economy and is working hard to destroy all that is good and decent in this country. The family unit was the foundation of this country and as ethical, immoral and illegal behavior has been forced on so many we have slowly become a fragmented and negative and empty people. This has come directly from the White House from people who should set the example. We used to be the country that the world looked up to and respected, now we are among the countries sliding into social and economic oblivion. Living in the US will become more and more difficult in the coming years due to the lack of moral, ethical family based leadership in our government. We have become a parasite nation, "gimme' gimme' gimme, only I matter".


Connie W said:


> Good grief!!! That there are people who believe as you do is really terrifying


Connie, I'm with you, this post gave me a shock. The end description is true, but that anybody could attribute to someone who has been president for such a short time, and acting with deliberate malicious intent...well, words fail me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NYBev said:


> What does that have to do with how the government took care of Native Americans?


If you want people to know which subject you are talking about, NYBev, it helps to do the "quote reply" .
Otherwise people don't realize that you might be talking about the Henry Ford quote.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

NYBev said:


> What does that have to do with how the government took care of Native Americans?


Nothing. But it was only polite to answer her. And, anyway how the government treated Indians isn't related to the thread topic either...


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

Connie W said:


> Good grief!!! That there are people who believe as you do is really terrifying


And I'm glad you didn't leave earlier. There is a lot to learn from this kind of thread, regardless of your own political leanings, I have found. There are people who have posted here that I will look for in future, to consider what they have to say and read their sources, not to swallow, but to consider and learn. Others, I'm glad not to waste time on them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bloomers wrote:
...Obama and his agenda has, effectually, destroyed the United States. He has broken the back of the family unit, and, the economy and is working hard to destroy all that is good and decent in this country. The family unit was the foundation of this country and as ethical, immoral and illegal behavior has been forced on so many we have slowly become a fragmented and negative and empty people. This has come directly from the White House from people who should set the example. We used to be the country that the world looked up to and respected, now we are among the countries sliding into social and economic oblivion. Living in the US will become more and more difficult in the coming years due to the lack of moral, ethical family based leadership in our government. We have become a parasite nation, "gimme' gimme' gimme, only I matter".

Frankly, when I read posts like these it's very hard for me to believe some Republicans' assertions that they hate Obama's policies, not his skin color. It's too much like what we saw during the Civil Rights movement, where racists saw not an African-American woman taking a seat at the front of the bus but rather someone using an axe against the foundations of their entire, bigoted society. Jeez.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


On behalf of us who still have some common sense left, welcome to this country, a country like no other in the history of human kind. An experiment that for over 200 yrs has been a bright beacon for the world to emulate. A country where one still has hope to make something of one's self. Though it seems sometimes that this hope is being dashed quickly these days by those in authority. Don't give up trying and stand up for your rights. We are governed under the Constitution. The Founding Fathers foresaw abuses of power and instituted Checks and Balances in our government. Unfortunately, from time to time, there have been those who have tried to abuse that power. In the final analysis, we the voters, are the only ones who can safeguard the rights and freedoms guaranteed us in the Constitution. But to do this we have to be well informed. Sometimes that means listening to the voices of reason and to the voices of hate. A FREE press is an absolute necessity to produce intelligent voters. I wonder what Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Adams and other Founding Fathers would think of our press today. Stay strong.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Bloomers: please explain how President Obama has broken the back of the family unit, and, the economy and is working hard to destroy all that is good and decent in this country. Please, I would like to know.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NYBev said:


> "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
> 
> by letting the government take care of him, better
> 
> take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford


Great zinger! Thanks, Bev.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, well. We all know that Henry Ford was a bigot who was good at figuring out a market for his product.


When you can't find fault with the message, you find fault with the messenger.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Jokim said:


> When you can't find fault with the message, you find fault with the messenger.


Well, his sentiment regarding the fate of the Indians at the hands of our government is hard to take seriously given that he was a rabid anti-semite who was very much for Hitler, who also gave him a medal, the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest honor Nazi Germany could give out to a foreigner. Talk about a government taking care of a people...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> When you can't find fault with the message, you find fault with the messenger.


Right--it's good to know that the folks who criticize Obama's golfing, vacations, choice of wardrobe, etc can't really find fault with his policies.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Does that mean you don't intend to collect the Democratically created Social Security?


Poor Purl
I think she is collecting more than that already.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> Bloomers: please explain how President Obama has broken the back of the family unit, and, the economy and is working hard to destroy all that is good and decent in this country. Please, I would like to know.


NJG those who like to criticize like Bloomers have no come back as they only repeat the crap that they are fed a steady diet of from their"reliable" sources. With all the stuff coming out today on attempts at voter suppression in TX and NC and states the people attempting to do this couldn't even defend their own actions and when asked how many votes were illegally cast one in TX came up with 2 out of 60,000 and another was 11 over a period of over 3 presidential election cycles and they spent thousands to stop all the fraud. This coming form the so called "conservative" right. When asked would these numbers ever change the outcome of any election they said "no, but that wasn't the point." The point was once again they do not want the poor, minorities and now you can add women to the mix in TX with their idiotic "new laws" they have to suppress voter's rights. The right has totally lost it's mind and racial hatred is the worst it has been for years. The GOP is leading the march to it's own end. They need no help from any outside forces. They know rationally they must recruit minorities in order for the party to survive yet up until today they are still refusing to do anything about immigration reform and they continually insult Blacks and Hispanics. They cannot accept that in the very near future they will be in the minority but the future belongs to those who can adapt and just as Darwin proved those who cannot adapt will soon die out and a once great party will become a relic of the past.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Chris Harris said:


> There is no such thing a free Medicare... The money comes out of citizens pockets who work very hard. We really need to stop helping free loading people who just use the system because they are to lazy to work. As for Michelle and Sarah they are very honest ladies. We need more women like them in the white house.


Chris Harris
trying to be funny? We know that Michelle Bachmann is a Grand Nut followed closely by the incompetent Sarah Palin and find nothing funny about either of them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I think she is collecting more than that already.


Huck so many who collect social security and medicare only believe they are deserving of it and feel quite free to judge who else is worthy and who is "living off the largess of the taxpayer".
It must be so nice to be able to make those kind of decisions and would be interesting to know what is their basis to make such calls.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> Voting officials in Texas are getting more crazy all the time. When a married woman gets a drivers license she has to put her maiden name as her middle name and leave her real middle name off. My understanding is that was law, since 1964. Now you go to vote and your two forms of ID don't match. Was this all done on purpose to hinder women being able to vote or was it an accident, something they just didn't think about.
> A woman in Pennsylvania went to get her ID with her ss card and her birth certificate. She had never driven-no drivers license-and she was Jewish so her marriage certificate was in Hebrew so they couldn't read it. Her problem was the birth certificate and ss card were both in her maiden name. Imagine that, her birth certificate was in her maiden name!!! Yes she could have gotten her ss card changed to her married name, but then they wouldn't have matched either.


NJG
leave it to the Texans to make a mess of something simple.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


I am sorry to have upset you but I did not mention race, those comments came from you. Now as for slamming me and asking if I posted these comments when President Bush was in office, well this site was not on the internet when President Bush was in office. it started in 2011. To be honest you are just ranting and raving because your side lost the last two elections. In fact you are actually proving my point that some posters here are nasty. If you read my post I believe I said your President is a great leader and deserves respect. I did not call President Bush names, I did not name him, you did.

I really think you have gone overboard here. As for bleeding liberals destroying the greatest country on earth?????? Do you not think that you are doing this by your rantings. All I ask is that you show your elected President, regardless of what party he represents, some respect. But it appears that is too much, you apparently will only respect a President who represents the same political party you support.

Please go back and read my post again. I said I was totally disgusted by some of the names some people call your President. So I believe that answers your question regarding whether I would have said the same thing about President Bush. My comments can be applied to every one of your Presidents who has been slandered and called names. You were the one who brought up race, not I. I am not talking policies here I am talking about lack of respect. If this site had been up and running when President Bush was President, and had I been a member of the site.....yes I would have taken posters to task if they showed such lack of respect by calling him names and posting pictures of dogs defecating on his photo or photos of his wife's undies, making fun of his name. Did you publicly condem the person who posted the picture on President Bush's door?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

From Janeway's post:Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford

"Thank you as many American Indians are still living in poverty today thanks to the government!"

It is my understanding that the American Indians were quite self sufficient until the settlers started an American Holocaust, killing them,kidnapping their children and forcing them into a lifestyle that was foreign to them, stealing their land, and forcing them to move to locations/land, i.e., "reservations" that the government didn't want. So did they ask for government assistance? I doubt it.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Janeway--genetic testing shows that the ancestors of Native Americans hailed from Siberia. Your people were at some point immigrants too.


I have found that Janeway has a very poor understanding of history, she seems to be missing the first chapter in her history book. Maybe she does not understand 'out of Africa' and human migration.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Smoking & Obamacare. That's the name of this thread hundreds....oops...thousands of posts ago.



saarlt said:


> Pardon my ignorance but what does S & O stand for?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When anyone leaves, it allows lies to go unanswered. We all get frustrated by the futility of it at times.



aw9358 said:


> So am I. Hopeless is definitely the word.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry, I agree with you on almost everything. The exception is about 'all they fervently wish for.' Instead I hope ACA will be an ultimate success in time and it will provide some good to all of us......and a thorn in the fanny to everyone too stubborn to admit its benefits.



Knitry said:


> Well, gang, it's been good, and it's been real, but it ain't been real good, as the (very) old saying goes.
> 
> I'm going to follow Poor Purl's excellent lead and bow out of this particular conversation.
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> From Janeway's post:Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford
> 
> "Thank you as many American Indians are still living in poverty today thanks to the government!"
> 
> It is my understanding that the American Indians were quite self sufficient until the settlers started an American Holocaust, killing them,kidnapping their children and forcing them into a lifestyle that was foreign to them, stealing their land, and forcing them to move to locations/land, i.e., "reservations" that the government didn't want. So did they ask for government assistance? I doubt it.


So did you just discover this news? Where have you been? The U.S. government did everything in their power to destroy all native Americans and when that didn't work they tried moving them on to reservations. Part of a long wicked past that this country caused. Now many native Americans live off the reservations and many have managed to have very successful lives have you not heard that good news or do you only want to dwell on what is bad? If so what would you propose the government do to improve the lives of native Americans? I am sure you must have some ideas so why not contact your senators or congressman and ask them what they are doing to improve the plight of your fellow citizens.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Like 'cancer insurance?'



susanmos2000 said:


> They were--and the university made no bones about the fact that these policies were simply to cover any legal obligation it had for those of us who lived on campus. I'm very glad these kinds of policies won't pass muster with the ACA. They're deceptive and a total waste of money.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe he was confusing it with the infamous 47% tape of Mitt Romney ....



NJG said:


> No one has said anything about a tape, except Sessions. He is the one that brought it up. That is why it sounds like he was worried that he had been taped and then there would be proof that he said it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have found that Janeway has a very poor understanding of history, she seems to be missing the first chapter in her history book. Maybe she does not understand 'out of Africa' and human migration.


Eve - Her only source is what is in the Bible and as we all know the world was created in a week. Also there were dinosaurs on the ark etc, etc, ad nauseum. Also, we are all going to hell except born again Christians. Just ask her and she will tell you it's true. She has a hot line to heaven. Reminds me of an old country song; "She's So Heavenly Minded She Ain't No Earthly Good" It's one of my favorites!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The most effective death dealing weapon the Europeans brought with them when they came to the US the many contagious diseases the the Native Amnerican naturally had no resistance to.

Ooops. Thought this was S&O but I'll let this poat stand.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> So did you just discover this news? Where have you been? The U.S. government did everything in their power to destroy all native Americans and when that didn't work they tried moving them on to reservations. Part of a long wicked past that this country caused. Now many native Americans live off the reservations and many have managed to have very successful lives have you not heard that good news or do you only want to dwell on what is bad? If so what would you propose the government do to improve the lives of native Americans? I am sure you must have some ideas so why not contact your senators or congressman and ask them what they are doing to improve the plight of your fellow citizens.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ninal46 said:


> I hope you posted this very show of disgust when the left was dragging Bush through the dirt, and calling him all sorts of names. I worked for a guy that posted on the OUTSiDE of his office door a picture of G.W. Bush looking like a monkey. Where were all the indignation then?? I'm sick of all this rubbish. I dislike Obama NOT because he's black, since he's half white! not because he's a democrat, but because I truly belive his policies are bad for America. The country that I chose to emigrate to (legally I might add) because it was the BEST country in the world. Now all the bleeding liberals believe they can improve on the foundation of this great land. When they destroy it maybe then they will understand why a person that was not born here weeps for what this administration is doing.
> ( excuse typos sent from my iPad)


 :thumbup: Good for you Nina. You are 100% times more of an American than the Liberal nutjobs on this thread. I wish our Nation had more of you in it! Thank you for becoming a citizen and one who understands the freedoms and rights of the USA and is informed on what is going on.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> When you can't find fault with the message, you find fault with the messenger.


She finds fault in everyone and everything unless of a Democrat and or Liberal and non-Christian.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> When anyone leaves, it allows lies to go unanswered. We all get frustrated by the futility of it at times.


If all the Liberals left, there would be no more lies. What a concept for a thread begun by a Conservative!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Smoking & Obamacare. That's the name of this thread hundreds....oops...thousands of posts ago.


Really - are you sure? You're lying, correct? Look at that, I was able to point out another lie by a Liberal immediately after mentioning if all the Liberals leave a thread, the lies would end.

How appropriate!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I think you need to go farther back than that. To Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.


Yes we do, it is called Out of Africa and is traces the path of human migration to the rest of the world. Unfortunately Janeway said her ancestors were born in America, indicating they have always been there. Perhaps there was a second garden of Eden and a second Adam and Eve in America? We are all supposed to descend from Adam and Eve, which would indicate that deep down we are all brothers and sisters, we all had the same original parents.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I think, if I recall, she uses the term Indian. I am the ignorant one who used Native American or indigenous peoples.


Yes, I was under the impression that the Native Americans preferred the term indigenous peoples or Native Americans. I was under the impression that they thought the term Indian was degrading to their culture. It is indeed interesting to see that Janeway seems to prefer the term Indian. But then what do I know, I am just a foreigner who does not like people insulting the President of USA, regardless of which party he represents.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You are good at name calling tonight! Shame, shame!


Janeway I think that you should read up on the history of Henry Ford. Were you aware of the fact that Hitler had a picture of Henry Ford hanging on his office wall, that Henry Ford was exporting his cars to the Nazis, and that he was a great supporter of that horrible little booklet, _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. Perhaps you are also a supporter of that publication?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

107 pages, and still beating that dead horse I see. Tisk-Tisk :roll:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Oh now, don't go all DNA on us. Do you have pictures of people crossing from one continent to the other?


Sorry but I seem to have left those photos in the other photo album. But I think I can find a news item about it somewhere. It is good we can laugh, otherwise we would spend so much time crying over other people's foolish remarks.

Just sitting here waiting for Janeway to call me the most hated and hateful person on this site as she likes to do. Tell you what I shall save her the time and energy.

Would Janeway write something along these lines?

"You there from Australia, Eve, or whatever your name is. This is just to tell you that you are the most hated and hateful person on this site. Everyone knows that you are a know nothing who is just pumped up with your self importance. Go away and leave all us nice knitting ladies alone as we are not interested in what you have to say. We have our own views on the world and do not like them contradicted. Eve you are wrong, Janeway is always correct. So there. "


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## Chris Harris (Oct 17, 2013)

Yes Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin. 
Both Medicare and Medicaid comes from the pockets of hard working citizens. But unfortunately it goes through the governments hands first.


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## Chris Harris (Oct 17, 2013)

Agree totally ninal46!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> There is no such thing a free Medicare... The money comes out of citizens pockets who work very hard. We really need to stop helping free loading people who just use the system because they are to lazy to work. As for Michelle and Sarah they are very honest ladies. We need more women like them in the white house.


Chris, 
Thank you for supporting the fact that free-loading needs to stop. Good for you!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NYBev said:


> "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous
> 
> by letting the government take care of him, better
> 
> take a closer look at the American Indian." - Henry Ford


Beautiful quote. Thank you! Why people can't see it is ridiculous.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as many American Indians are still living in poverty today thanks to the government!


Right. Let the government step in and we are all in trouble.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are good at name calling tonight! Shame, shame!


Janeway,
That is all they can do is call names. Pitiful and they are bullies.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Does that mean you don't intend to collect the Democratically created Social Security?


We all pay in so we are entitled. We have already paid for it!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NYBev said:


> What does that have to do with how the government took care of Native Americans?


The fact is the government abused Native Americans.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Nothing. But it was only polite to answer her. And, anyway how the government treated Indians isn't related to the thread topic either...


Oh, yes it is. Bottom line - keep government out of it as they will bog it down and mess it up.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> On behalf of us who still have some common sense left, welcome to this country, a country like no other in the history of human kind. An experiment that for over 200 yrs has been a bright beacon for the world to emulate. A country where one still has hope to make something of one's self. Though it seems sometimes that this hope is being dashed quickly these days by those in authority. Don't give up trying and stand up for your rights. We are governed under the Constitution. The Founding Fathers foresaw abuses of power and instituted Checks and Balances in our government. Unfortunately, from time to time, there have been those who have tried to abuse that power. In the final analysis, we the voters, are the only ones who can safeguard the rights and freedoms guaranteed us in the Constitution. But to do this we have to be well informed. Sometimes that means listening to the voices of reason and to the voices of hate. A FREE press is an absolute necessity to produce intelligent voters. I wonder what Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, Adams and other Founding Fathers would think of our press today. Stay strong.


BRAVO! Keep government away from making our health care decisions. Thank you!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> Bloomers: please explain how President Obama has broken the back of the family unit, and, the economy and is working hard to destroy all that is good and decent in this country. Please, I would like to know.


He is trying to push forth Socialism. That will break the back of our entire country. If people think that Socialism is a good thing, then we are heading down the slope of ruin.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> When you can't find fault with the message, you find fault with the messenger.


Right. They are bullies, Jokim. Plain and simple.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Well, his sentiment regarding the fate of the Indians at the hands of our government is hard to take seriously given that he was a rabid anti-semite who was very much for Hitler, who also gave him a medal, the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest honor Nazi Germany could give out to a foreigner. Talk about a government taking care of a people...


If the world new how bad Hitler was in the beginning, he would not have taken it. Hitler fooled the world for a while. Do not criticize because the timing is wrong. You are taking history out of context.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Good for you Nina. You are 100% times more of an American than the Liberal nutjobs on this thread. I wish our Nation had more of you in it! Thank you for becoming a citizen and one who understands the freedoms and rights of the USA and is informed on what is going on.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Nina, we need more people like you in this country than people who want hand outs. You make this country strong; they tear it apart.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If all the Liberals left, there would be no more lies. What a concept for a thread begun by a Conservative!


Good idea.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, I was under the impression that the Native Americans preferred the term indigenous peoples or Native Americans. I was under the impression that they thought the term Indian was degrading to their culture. It is indeed interesting to see that Janeway seems to prefer the term Indian. But then what do I know, I am just a foreigner who does not like people insulting the President of USA, regardless of which party he represents.


Who cares what she calls herself by. Really, is that an issue. Looking under the barrel to create insults speaks volumes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

From the Wall Street Journal: 

(this should be posted every day!) 

PLEASE READ!


Three years after the disastrous launch of the Affordable Care Act, most of the website troubles finally have been ironed out. People are now able to log on to the government's ACA website and to most of the state health-insurance exchanges. The public has grudgingly come to accept higher insurance premiums, new taxes and increases in part-time workers who were formerly full-time. But Americans are irate anywaybecause now they're seeing the health-care law's destructive effect on the fundamental nature of the way their care is delivered.

Even before the ACA's launch in 2013, many physiciansseeing the changes in their profession that lay aheadhad begun talking their children out of going to medical school. After the launch, compensation fell, while nothing in the ACA stopped lawsuits and malpractice premiums from rising. Doctors must now see many more patients each day to meet expenses, all while dealing with the mountains of paperwork mandated by the health-care law. 


The forecast shortage of doctors has become a real problem. It started in 2014 when the ACA cut $716 billion from Medicare to accommodate 30 million newly "insured" people through an expansion of Medicaid. More important, the predicted shortage of 42,000 primary-care physicians and that of specialists (such as heart surgeons) was vastly underestimated. It didn't take into account the ACA's effect on doctors retiring early, refusing new patients or going into concierge medicine. These estimates also ignored the millions of immigrants who would be seeking a physician after having been granted legal status.

It is surprising that the doctor shortage was not better anticipated: After all, when Massachusetts mandated health insurance in 2006, the wait to see a physician in some specialties increased considerably, the shortage of primary-care physicians escalated and more doctors stopped accepting new patients. In 2013, the Massachusetts Medical Society noted waiting times from 50 days to 128 days in some areas for new patients to see an internist, for instance.

But doctor shortages are only the beginning.

Even before the ACA cut $716 billion from its budget, Medicare only reimbursed hospitals and doctors for 70%-85% of their costs. Once this cut further reduced reimbursements, and the ACA added stacks of paperwork, more doctors refused to accept Medicare: It just didn't cover expenses. 

Then there is the ACA's Medicare (government) board that dictates and rations care, and the board has begun to cut reimbursements. Some physicians now refuse even to take patients over 50 years old, not wanting to be burdened with them when they reach Medicare age. Seniors aren't happy. 

Medicaid in 2016 has similar problems. A third of physicians refused to accept new Medicaid patients in 2013, and with Medicaid's expansion and government cuts, the numbers of doctors who don't take Medicaid skyrocketed. The uninsured poor now have insurance, but they can't find a doctor, so essentially the ACA was of no help.

The loss of private practice is another big problem. Because of regulations and other government disincentives to self employment, doctors began working for hospitals in the early 2000s, leaving less than half in private practice by 2013. The ACA rapidly accelerated this trend, so that now very few private practices remain.

When doctors are employed like factory workers by hospitals, data from the Medical Group Management Association and others indicate, their productivity fallssometimes by more than 25%. They see fewer patients and perform fewer timely procedures, exacerbating the troubles caused by physician shortages. Continuity of care also declines, since now a physician's responsibilities end when his shift is over.

Of those doctors still in private practice, many have taken refuge from the health-care law by going into concierge medicine, where the patient pays an annual fee (typically $500-$3,000 a year per individual) to a primary-care physician. This doctor provides enhanced care, grants quicker appointments and spends more time with each patient, working with a base of 300-600 patients instead of the 3,000-5,000 typical in the ACA era. Doctors and patients who can afford it love concierge medicine: It allows treatment to be administered as the doctor sees fit, instead of as if the patient is on an assembly line with care directed on orders from Washington.

Patients who can't afford concierge medicine but have seen their doctor take that route are out of luck: They have been added to the swelling rolls of patients taken care of by the shrinking pool of physicians. So even people with "private" insurance have found that the quality of their health care declined. Nowadays, many are forced instead to see a nurse or other health-care provider. The traditional doctor-patient relationship is now reserved primarily for those who can pay extra.

Concierge-type care was easily expanded to specialists. The top surgeons now simply opt out of Medicare or become "out of network" providers, allowing them to bill patients directly. Many have joined the plastic surgeons and ophthalmologists who work on a straight fee-for-service basis.

Equally important: With the best and most successful doctors disappearing into concierge medicine or refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients, replacing these experienced physicians with bright young doctors to work with the "general public" has become difficult. Why? Because such doctors are hard to findgoing into medicine doesn't have the professional allure it once did. 

With an average of $300,000 in student loans, eight years of college and medical school, and three to seven years as underpaid, overworked residents, a prospective physician in the ACA era would be starting a career at age 30 in a job that requires working 70-80 hours a week in an assembly-line fashion to earn perhaps $100,000 a year. No wonder so many qualified individuals these days are choosing careers on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley instead of medicine.

It is also no wonder that three years ago members of Congress got themselves exempted from the Affordable Care Act. They may have passed the law, but they're not stupid.

Dr. Allen, a pediatric heart surgeon, is a former professor and surgical director of the Children's Heart Institute in Houston.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Who cares what she calls herself by. Really, is that an issue. Looking under the barrel to create insults speaks volumes.


Yes it sure does and certain posters on this site are very vocal with the insults they hurl at their President. Janeway is very fond of insulting both the President and his wife, so who is looking under the barrel to create insults.


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes it sure does and certain posters on this site are very vocal with the insults they hurl at their President. Janeway is very fond of insulting both the President and his wife, so who is looking under the barrel to create insults.


How can I have respect for a President that calls me an "enemy" and that HIS side must get "revenge" on the opposition (which would be me, as I oppose what he believes in). When he shows respect to the conservative - sits down and starts to GOVERN fairly, instead of being on a constant campaing tour. Then and ONLY then will I show him respect. In my opinion, and I am entitled to have one and express it, after all it IS still America, I think he is the worst leader that this country has ever had. If you believe otherwise then you and I have different views of what a freedom of choice and a great country should be like.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> My husband has just returned from a doctor's appointment. This doctor went to a BCBS meeting yesterday in which very few doctors bothered to attend. This doctor learned the following:
> 
> 1. The states that have opted in for Obamacare are going to be very expensive regarding healthcare.
> 2. No cancer screening (mammograms - everything) after the age of 70 for all people. Mind you half of people over 70 will die of cancer.
> ...


My daughter is a practicing physician in NJ. She said that what you were told is simply not true. Doctors are trying to scare people into not applying for Obamacare because my daughter says they will be reimbursed LESS under Obamacare. They do not want to make less money for their services. My daughter is a Gastroenterologist and says while she is probably going to be reimbursed a lot less for her services, she will make the same money due to more people having insurance.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but I seem to have left those photos in the other photo album. But I think I can find a news item about it somewhere. It is good we can laugh, otherwise we would spend so much time crying over other people's foolish remarks.
> 
> Just sitting here waiting for Janeway to call me the most hated and hateful person on this site as she likes to do. Tell you what I shall save her the time and energy.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is good to laugh at and through the mess. I find it most amusing that I get "yelled at" most often for my irreverence and not when I am being serious. 
Too bad, really, that I cannot keep my tongue out of my cheek.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> My daughter is a practicing physician in NJ. She said that what you were told is simply not true. Doctors are trying to scare people into not applying for Obamacare because my daughter says they will be reimbursed LESS under Obamacare. They do not want to make less money for their services. My daughter is a Gastroenterologist and says while she is probably going to be reimbursed a lot less for her services, she will make the same money due to more people having insurance.


And help more people as well. Thank her for her level headed view, please.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Janeway I think that you should read up on the history of Henry Ford. Were you aware of the fact that Hitler had a picture of Henry Ford hanging on his office wall, that Henry Ford was exporting his cars to the Nazis, and that he was a great supporter of that horrible little booklet, _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. Perhaps you are also a supporter of that publication?


Ford wasn't the only American initially enamored with Hitler. There were others. He wasn't the only highly profiled person either. The Duke of Windsor, the one who abdicated the British throne, Charles Lindbergh, and even Joseph Stalin, the 'beloved' leader of the USSR (and the world-wide leftist communist movement) before he changed sides on June 22, 1941, the day Hitler invaded his country.
Perhaps you weren't aware that on Sept. 1, 1939 Hitler invaded Poland but on Sept. 17, 1939, Stalin invaded Poland from the east, following a secret agreement with 'Uncle Joe'. Poland was no threat to either of these countries. Have you driven a Ford lately?


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## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

IMO Obama has done more harm for the USA than good. Our National Debt limit will eventually send the USA into Bankruptcy and our children's lives are all going to be much worst than ours are.

My health insurance premium that is paid out of my Pension is going UP by $40 a MONTH because of Obamacare!!!!! AND, my prescription coverage my health insurance coverage has also increased by 50%. Instead of me paying $25 maximum for a prescription, I will now have to pay $60!!!!!

IMO - all Obama has done is to increase all the "entitlements" for the people that are making Welfare a way of life.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Well, his sentiment regarding the fate of the Indians at the hands of our government is hard to take seriously given that he was a rabid anti-semite who was very much for Hitler, who also gave him a medal, the Grand Cross of the German Eagle, the highest honor Nazi Germany could give out to a foreigner. Talk about a government taking care of a people...


His relationship with Ford aside, Hitler did take care of the German people, right down to their implosion in 1945. When he came on the political scene in 1932, Germany was in the depth of the depression with high inflation and unemployment. H. put people to work, gave them free healthcare, (there were no cell phone or EBT cards then), gave them cheap housing and other help, to start a new life. They loved him. The WWI reparations were a real hardship on the German people. He eased their pain. He controlled the news media and secretly began to eliminate enemies of the state. He became the Pied Piper of his people. They were too blind to see that he was leading them down the road to destruction. Hmm.......... . . . . .


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but I seem to have left those photos in the other photo album. But I think I can find a news item about it somewhere. It is good we can laugh, otherwise we would spend so much time crying over other people's foolish remarks.
> 
> Just sitting here waiting for Janeway to call me the most hated and hateful person on this site as she likes to do. Tell you what I shall save her the time and energy.
> 
> ...


Why would you want to put such mean and nasty comments in Janeway's mouth? Even to intimate them, is telling.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Why would you want to put such mean and nasty comments in Janeway's mouth? Even to intimate them, is telling.


It isn't a matter of wanting to so much as beating her to the "punch". It is how she talks.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Chris Harris said:


> Yes Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin.
> Both Medicare and Medicaid comes from the pockets of hard working citizens. But unfortunately it goes through the governments hands first.


Medicare & Medicaid are good programs. We all have to help each other along. Didn't Jesus say that whatever we do to the least of our brothers, that we do unto him???

All Bachman and Palin spout are how religious they are but in reality their policies are anything but what Jesus would do. JMHO.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Medicare & Medicaid are good programs. We all have to help each other along. Didn't Jesus say that whatever we do to the least of our brothers, that we do unto him???
> 
> All Bachman and Palin spout are how religious they are but in reality their policies are anything but what Jesus would do. JMHO.


 :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Jokim said:


> His relationship with Ford aside, Hitler did take care of the German people, right down to their implosion in 1945. When he came on the political scene in 1932, Germany was in the depth of the depression with high inflation and unemployment. H. put people to work, gave them free healthcare, (there were no cell phone or EBT cards then), gave them cheap housing and other help, to start a new life. They loved him. The WWI reparations were a real hardship on the German people. He eased their pain. He controlled the news media and secretly began to eliminate enemies of the state. He became the Pied Piper of his people. They were too blind to see that he was leading them down the road to destruction. Hmm.......... . . . . .


I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


I have been sitting here trying to figure out how to frame a response. 
I cannot, other than to suggest that there is NO PLACE for any suggestion that Hitler did positive things.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have been sitting here trying to figure out how to frame a response.
> I cannot, other than to suggest that there is NO PLACE for any suggestion that Hitler did positive things.


I can only hope that everyone puts their differences aside and unequivocally condemns this. It is the single most offensive post I have ever seen on KP, and I've been here a while. I'm going to do something I've never done before and report it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> If the world new how bad Hitler was in the beginning, he would not have taken it.


Of course he would have. Ford wasn't deceived by the Nazis--he knew and APPROVED of everything they stood for. Hence the fact that he allowed Ford-Werke, the German branch of the Ford company, to use slave labor to produce automobiles for the Third Reich. It's no wonder Adolf considered him such a pal--in Mein Kampf Hitler said, " "only a single great man, Ford, who, to the Jews' fury, still maintains full independence...[from] the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of one hundred and twenty millions."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course he would have. Ford wasn't deceived by the Nazis--he knew and APPROVED of everything they stood for. Hence the fact that he allowed Ford-Werke, the German branch of the Ford company, to use slave labor to produce automobiles for the Third Reich. It's no wonder Adolf considered him such a pal--in Mein Kampf Hitler said, " "only a single great man, Ford, who, to the Jews' fury, still maintains full independence...[from] the controlling masters of the producers in a nation of one hundred and twenty millions."


What is that about those who ignore history are destined to repeat it?


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It isn't a matter of wanting to so much as beating her to the "punch". It is how she talks.


'Takes one to know one'.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Ford wasn't the only American initially enamored with Hitler. There were others. He wasn't the only highly profiled person either. The Duke of Windsor, the one who abdicated the British throne, Charles Lindbergh, and even Joseph Stalin, the 'beloved' leader of the USSR (and the world-wide leftist communist movement) before he changed sides on June 22, 1941, the day Hitler invaded his country.
> Perhaps you weren't aware that on Sept. 1, 1939 Hitler invaded Poland but on Sept. 17, 1939, Stalin invaded Poland from the east, following a secret agreement with 'Uncle Joe'. Poland was no threat to either of these countries. Have you driven a Ford lately?


I know my history and the history of Poland and Germany and Russia. Uncle Joe Stalin forged a pact with Hitler but his intention was to seize Polish territory. Over the course of history the Polish borders have shifted many times. I also know that many Americans were followers of the Nazi Party, as were many in England. I also know the history of the Duke of Windsor.

Just because a person may drive a Ford motor car does not mean that they supported Henry Ford's racial ideas. You could ask people if they drive a Japanese car and then slam them because of Pearl Harbour. The comment about driving a Ford is way off beam. My present car is a Mitsubishi it you really would like to know. Going back to the 1950s we had mainly two makes of cars. You were either a Holden driver or you were a Ford Driver, although lots of people also drove British cars.

If you would like a good book on the history of Hitler and Stalin I would recommend Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder. It is the history of Europe between Hitler and Stalin.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> His relationship with Ford aside, Hitler did take care of the German people, right down to their implosion in 1945. When he came on the political scene in 1932, Germany was in the depth of the depression with high inflation and unemployment. H. put people to work, gave them free healthcare, (there were no cell phone or EBT cards then), gave them cheap housing and other help, to start a new life. They loved him. The WWI reparations were a real hardship on the German people. He eased their pain.


Yes, he most certainly did ease the pain of 1.5 million Germans (plus that of 7.5M other Europeans)--by jamming them into his gas chambers. What a humanitarian. What a guy.

I can't believe you posted this. I'm appalled.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I can only hope that everyone puts their differences aside and unequivocally condemns this. It is the single most offensive post I have ever seen on KP, and I've been here a while.


Same, Aw. I'm stunned by this.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> It isn't a matter of wanting to so much as beating her to the "punch". It is how she talks.


Thanks for your reply, you saved me from the task. Honestly, I just do not understand these people.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for your reply, you saved me from the task. Honestly, I just do not understand these people.


The only explanation I have is that it is the only place they have to show their ugly side.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Jokim said:


> 'Takes one to know one'.


Mature.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


Please study your history of this period. Sorry if this 'horrifies' you. How else would H. rise to power, voted in mind you, if not by popular sovereignty. One has to study history within the context of the time it happened. Please do not take my original comment out of context but consider the entire statement. I am just stating the way things were in Germany in the 1930's. I had family members who were Hitler's victims.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The only explanation I have is that it is the only place they have to show their ugly side.


True. And ugly it is--far moreso than I ever dreamed it could be.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


I honestly could not believe that she wrote those words. I think there is a great misunderstanding of history here. I also hope it was satire as I shudder to think she could honestly believe what she wrote. I wonder if she realises that many people on this site are either refugees from Hitler or the children of refugees. Does she know how many attempts were made on Hitler's life, and how many came from high ranking military officers. They say the devil looks after his own, well with Hitler this was true. I honestly do not know how he managed to escape the attempts on his life.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I can only hope that everyone puts their differences aside and unequivocally condemns this. It is the single most offensive post I have ever seen on KP, and I've been here a while. I'm going to do something I've never done before and report it.


I agree, it is just too much, too offensive.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I agree, it is just too much, too offensive.


I do think that it is possible that the poster was not thinking about the impact of her words when typing. I think we should allow for a reasoned response.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I can only hope that everyone puts their differences aside and unequivocally condemns this. It is the single most offensive post I have ever seen on KP, and I've been here a while. I'm going to do something I've never done before and report it.


When will you stop lying? You've done that before ... and here again.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Please study your history of this period. Sorry if this 'horrifies' you. How else would H. rise to power, voted in mind you, if not by popular sovereignty. One has to study history within the context of the time it happened. Please do not take my original comment out of context but consider the entire statement. I am just stating the way things were in Germany in the 1930's. I had family members who were Hitler's victims.


I am sorry that your family suffered under the Nazis. You obviously know what that regime represented. What horrifies me is that you seem to be comparing Hitler's rise to what is happening now in your country. What does the "Hmm" mean? Are you seriously likening your President to Hitler?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> When will you stop lying? You've done that before ... and here again.


Sorry, your majesty. I forgot you police every post here. Morphine is my excuse. Have a blessed day.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Sorry, your majesty. I forgot you police every post here. Morphine is my excuse. Have a blessed day.


Just like Julian and all of you do. Whats the differance. Some of you even spend the whole day and half the night posting on every poltical site


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Just like Julian and all of you do. Whats the differance. Some of you even spend the whole day and half the night posting on every poltical site


Yarnie - they cannot post anything of an intellectual nature without twisting words and posting lies. It has to be a very sad existence for them. Pray for them, I do.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just like Julian and all of you do. Whats the differance. Some of you even spend the whole day and half the night posting on every poltical site


I don't. Who's Julian?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Did anyone watch ABC news last night mention of Calif. and 1,600 losing insurance with Obama care, and lady who talk about how she lost her's.

Mention of Benghazi and first hand account from man who was there. Full story on 60 mins. Sunday

Hearings on Computer and what is wrong

World leaders very upset with USA spying.

Lots more very interesting.

Also mention on NBC.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

I did. Finally, the Liberal Media is beginning to cover the news like the journalists they claim to be.

No longer are they covering up the truth and carrying water for Obama and his Administration.

They'll never give the complete story, but until their ratings improve along with Obama's, they'll at least try.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Obama and the Dems are really taking a big time hit over Obamacare (as they should).

I doubt the law will survive as presently written. It the law does, America won't survive it. America will be forever changed (worse) and will never be the land of Freedom and Constitutional Law again.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I don't. Who's Julian?


Sorry spelt name wrong. Julian or what ever the one who is always on line.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Sorry spelt name wrong. Julian or what ever the one who is always on line.


I think you mean Jelun? I also think aw9358 knows who you meant as well. It is in her nature to needle and criticize anyone with whom she does not agree.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Sorry spelt name wrong. Julian or what ever the one who is always on line.


LOL, and it just galls that you don't know the why of my continued presence here. 
The odd thing is that you would even notice. I have no idea how much time you are here. koff koff


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you mean Jelun? I also think aw9358 knows who you meant as well. It is in her nature to needle and criticize anyone with whom she does not agree.


How can you say that? I absolutely had no idea who she meant. Please stop.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> How can you say that? I absolutely had no idea who she meant. Please stop.


C'mon, aw, you know you can't take anything these people post to heart. Buck up.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> C'mon, aw, you know you can't take anything these people post to heart. Buck up.


Thanks, Julian. I know really, but every now and again...


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## alifletcher (Jun 8, 2012)

Doctors are not the best resource for the Affordable Health Care Act some will no longer be able to over charge their patients as the Insurance and pharmaceutical companies have done all these years. You may surprise yourself in getting the facts instead of listening to someone else. We all need to become more informed !


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alifletcher said:


> Doctors are not the best resource for the Affordable Health Care Act some will no longer be able to over charge their patients as the Insurance and pharmaceutical companies have done all these years. You may surprise yourself in getting the facts instead of listening to someone else. We all need to become more informed !


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Doctors are, as they should be, busy doing the medical end of the business. They have staff to take care of the money and health insurance end.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So did you just discover this news? Where have you been? The U.S. government did everything in their power to destroy all native Americans and when that didn't work they tried moving them on to reservations. Part of a long wicked past that this country caused. Now many native Americans live off the reservations and many have managed to have very successful lives have you not heard that good news or do you only want to dwell on what is bad? If so what would you propose the government do to improve the lives of native Americans? I am sure you must have some ideas so why not contact your senators or congressman and ask them what they are doing to improve the plight of your fellow citizens.


I guess the Teahaddists and Ayn Rand repubs would say to the American Indian that they have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks, Julian. I know really, but every now and again...


HAHAHAA, I feel like a Lennon.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> Yes Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin.
> Both Medicare and Medicaid comes from the pockets of hard working citizens. But unfortunately it goes through the governments hands first.


I guess my husband and I, who receive Social Security and are on Medicare, are just free-loading off of you hard-working citizens? Good grief, do you not understand the basics?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Medicare & Medicaid are good programs. We all have to help each other along. Didn't Jesus say that whatever we do to the least of our brothers, that we do unto him???
> 
> All Bachman and Palin spout are how religious they are but in reality their policies are anything but what Jesus would do. JMHO.


If you can get people to believe this, you're a better person than I!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Does that mean you don't intend to collect the Democratically created Social Security?


Yes, because I paid in & it is mine to collect as I'm doing!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> My daughter is a practicing physician in NJ. She said that what you were told is simply not true. Doctors are trying to scare people into not applying for Obamacare because my daughter says they will be reimbursed LESS under Obamacare. They do not want to make less money for their services. My daughter is a Gastroenterologist and says while she is probably going to be reimbursed a lot less for her services, she will make the same money due to more people having insurance.


That raises an interesting question -- does your daughter currently have large gaps in her practice to include more patients? or does she plan to work many more hours? or will she spend less time with patients? Any way you look at it, a doctors effective pay rate will be decreasing while their costs increase due to higher administration costs.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but I seem to have left those photos in the other photo album. But I think I can find a news item about it somewhere. It is good we can laugh, otherwise we would spend so much time crying over other people's foolish remarks.
> 
> Just sitting here waiting for Janeway to call me the most hated and hateful person on this site as she likes to do. Tell you what I shall save her the time and energy.
> 
> ...


You don't know me so "Why" would you write such garbage as to me you are a racist who is slamming me because I'm a Native American Indian. Do you slam the natives of your country?

You are very mean & I will report your hatefulness to KP's Admin so stop!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You don't know me so "Why" would you write such garbage as to me you are a racist who is slamming me because I'm a Native American Indian. Do you slam the natives of your country?
> 
> You are very mean & I will report your hatefulness to KP's Admin so stop!


LOL


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> How can I have respect for a President that calls me an "enemy" and that HIS side must get "revenge" on the opposition (which would be me, as I oppose what he believes in). When he shows respect to the conservative - sits down and starts to GOVERN fairly, instead of being on a constant campaing tour. Then and ONLY then will I show him respect. In my opinion, and I am entitled to have one and express it, after all it IS still America, I think he is the worst leader that this country has ever had. If you believe otherwise then you and I have different views of what a freedom of choice and a great country should be like.


BRAVO! BRAVO!

I hope EVERYONE READS THIS!

From today's WALL STREET JOURNAL

Strassel: Democrats Run for ObamaCare Cover After weeks of vowing they wouldn't cave on the president's signature legislation, some Democrats are doing just that.By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL CONNECT - Columnist's name .
Article Comments (979) more in Opinion | Find New $LINKTEXTFIND$ ».
smaller Larger facebooktwittergoogle pluslinked ininShare.0EmailPrintSave ↓ More .
.smaller Larger 
Jeanne Shaheen doesn't sound like a Democrat who just won a government-shutdown "victory." Ms. Shaheen sounds like a Democrat who thinks she's going to lose her job.

The New Hampshire senator fundamentally altered the health-care fight on Tuesday with a letter to the White House demanding it both extend the ObamaCare enrollment deadline and waive tax penalties for those unable to enroll. Within nanoseconds, Arkansas Sen. Mark Pryor had endorsed her "common-sense idea." By Wednesday night, five Senate Democrats were on board, pushing for . . . what's that dirty GOP word? Oh, right. "Delay."

After 16 long days of vowing to Republicans that they would not cave in any way, shape or form on ObamaCare, Democrats spent their first post-shutdown week caving in every way, shape and form. With the GOP's antics now over, the only story now is the unrivaled disaster that is the president's health-care law.

Hundreds of thousands of health-insurance policies canceled. Companies dumping coverage and cutting employees' hours. Premiums skyrocketing. And a website that reprises the experience of a Commodore 64. As recently as May, Democratic consultants were advising members of Congress that their best ObamaCare strategy for 2014 was to "own" the law. Ms. Shaheen has now publicly advised the consultants where they can file that memo.

In the Senate, West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin is working on legislation to delay the individual mandate's enforcement for a year. CNN reports that all 16 Senate Democrats up for re-election are expected to support Ms. Shaheen's proposal. In the House, Democratic members are stacking up behind all of these ideas, and more.

Even House liberals have felt it necessary to reassure voters that they, too, are angrythough so far they are merely calling for scalps. "I'd like to see somebody lose their job over this. I think it's outrageous," complained New York Rep. Sean Maloney. "Somebody's got to man up hereget rid of these people," said Minnesota's Rick Nolan. This is presumably a call for a certain "somebody" to do something more than 1-800 commercials from the Rose Garden.

This Democratic freakout has been building for months, even if it was masked by the shutdown headlines and the way the media reported that event. Nationally, yes, the GOP took a drubbing on the shutdown. But next year isn't a national election. It's a midterm that will turn on key states, where polls all along have found disapproval of ObamaCare, the president and his party's handling of the economy.

In Arkansas, Mr. Pryor's home state, a poll conducted by the University of Arkansas from Oct. 10-17 found that 39% of likely voters blame Mr. Obama for the shutdown (only 27% blame congressional Republicans). Just 29% approve of Mr. Obama, and Mr. Pryor's disapproval ratings jumped 21 points in just a year, to 44%, from 21%.

More worrisome for the Democratic senator is a recent poll conducted by OnMessage for his GOP rival Tom Cotton. Only 33% of Arkansans support ObamaCare. The number drops to 28% for independent voters. Even one-third of Democrats in the state oppose the law.

The numbers aren't much better in Ms. Shaheen's New Hampshire, or in Alaska, Louisiana, North Carolina, West Virginia or Montana. The Democrats up for election in these states know that the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads isn't the Republican Party, but their own president's law.

The GOP's aggressive shutdown tactics only forestalled this flight for political cover. It allowed Senate Majority Harry Reid to keep his troops united, on grounds that they needed to make a point. But absent a GOP bogeyman, Democrats quickly realized that they had no further excuses for inactionsave partisan fealty to a failed law. That won't wash with voters.

The White House's problem is that political cracks like this don't get patched; they grow. Until this week, the administration could write off the 20-odd House Democrats who voted with Republicans this summer to delay parts of the law as victims of a tough vote orchestrated by the GOP. But now a numerically significant number of Senate Democrats have, on their own, signaled that it is acceptable for members of the president's party to demand consequential ObamaCare changes.

The pressure for other Democrats to join will rise, as will the pressure for the party to embrace more extensive changes to the law. Even before the ObamaCare rollout, Mr. Pryor and North Carolina's Kay Hagan had co-sponsored legislation to kill ObamaCare's rationing board (the House version has 23 Democratic co-sponsors). Alaska Sen. Mark Begich had introduced a bill to delay the business mandate for two years. There is bipartisan opposition to the medical-device tax, to the ObamaCare slush fund and to the IRS's central role in coordinating the law.

The White House has lived in fear of this moment, and the administration's biggest problem is that it has no quick bandage for this bleed. Healthcare.gov is weeks or months from being fixedif it is fixable at all. Enrollment numbers will thus remain dismal. The insurance horror stories are only beginning. The congressional hearings, too. The administration could sack Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, but it knows that getting a replacement nominee through the Senate would likely prove more painful than keeping her.

Democrats will do their best to keep shifting blame to the GOP, but those complaints are losing traction. This week was a turning point.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Ford wasn't the only American initially enamored with Hitler. There were others. He wasn't the only highly profiled person either. The Duke of Windsor, the one who abdicated the British throne, Charles Lindbergh, and even Joseph Stalin, the 'beloved' leader of the USSR (and the world-wide leftist communist movement) before he changed sides on June 22, 1941, the day Hitler invaded his country.
> Perhaps you weren't aware that on Sept. 1, 1939 Hitler invaded Poland but on Sept. 17, 1939, Stalin invaded Poland from the east, following a secret agreement with 'Uncle Joe'. Poland was no threat to either of these countries. Have you driven a Ford lately?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> IMO Obama has done more harm for the USA than good. Our National Debt limit will eventually send the USA into Bankruptcy and our children's lives are all going to be much worst than ours are.
> 
> My health insurance premium that is paid out of my Pension is going UP by $40 a MONTH because of Obamacare!!!!! AND, my prescription coverage my health insurance coverage has also increased by 50%. Instead of me paying $25 maximum for a prescription, I will now have to pay $60!!!!!
> 
> IMO - all Obama has done is to increase all the "entitlements" for the people that are making Welfare a way of life.


Your words are great. Yes, all he did was increase the number of people who are dependent on the government. Thank you for this post!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> His relationship with Ford aside, Hitler did take care of the German people, right down to their implosion in 1945. When he came on the political scene in 1932, Germany was in the depth of the depression with high inflation and unemployment. H. put people to work, gave them free healthcare, (there were no cell phone or EBT cards then), gave them cheap housing and other help, to start a new life. They loved him. The WWI reparations were a real hardship on the German people. He eased their pain. He controlled the news media and secretly began to eliminate enemies of the state. He became the Pied Piper of his people. They were too blind to see that he was leading them down the road to destruction. Hmm.......... . . . . .


Thank you for this informative, true post.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


What she wrote was very accurate and very true! It is common knowledge.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I have been sitting here trying to figure out how to frame a response.
> I cannot, other than to suggest that there is NO PLACE for any suggestion that Hitler did positive things.


He did NOT do anything positive. The world knows that. However, before the truth came out, lots of people believed him - that is the point. You completely missed the point.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Please study your history of this period. Sorry if this 'horrifies' you. How else would H. rise to power, voted in mind you, if not by popular sovereignty. One has to study history within the context of the time it happened. Please do not take my original comment out of context but consider the entire statement. I am just stating the way things were in Germany in the 1930's. I had family members who were Hitler's victims.


Jokim,

Your post was so accurate. The others just twisted what you said into something that is totally not what you were saying. It happens all the time here. All in the need for them to start a fight.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> When will you stop lying? You've done that before ... and here again.


They sure know how to twist the facts.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yarnie - they cannot post anything of an intellectual nature without twisting words and posting lies. It has to be a very sad existence for them. Pray for them, I do.


You are better than I am KPG.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obama and the Dems are really taking a big time hit over Obamacare (as they should).
> 
> I doubt the law will survive as presently written. It the law does, America won't survive it. America will be forever changed (worse) and will never be the land of Freedom and Constitutional Law again.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you mean Jelun? I also think aw9358 knows who you meant as well. It is in her nature to needle and criticize anyone with whom she does not agree.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess my husband and I, who receive Social Security and are on Medicare, are just free-loading off of you hard-working citizens? Good grief, do you not understand the basics?


You paid for those.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That raises an interesting question -- does your daughter currently have large gaps in her practice to include more patients? or does she plan to work many more hours? or will she spend less time with patients? Any way you look at it, a doctors effective pay rate will be decreasing while their costs increase due to higher administration costs.


West Coast Kitty,

Absolutely right. We will not have the care that we had before. Not enough time, too many patients.


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## alifletcher (Jun 8, 2012)

Why are you people so against the middle class that can not afford health insurance. The poor have Medicaid, the elderly have Medicare, the rich have enough money to afford insurance.

Because of the economy and job loss there are many "middle class Americans who could not afford health insurance and because of affordable health care they can. There are enough policies out there that can be investigated to suit each persons income or lack of it.

Why are some of you so insensitive to that. These are other human beings (Americans) in need. If they pay for their own insurance you dont have to pay for them any longer in your taxes. If your compassion does not make you more understanding maybe your pocketbook will !!!


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I am sorry that your family suffered under the Nazis. You obviously know what that regime represented. What horrifies me is that you seem to be comparing Hitler's rise to what is happening now in your country. What does the "Hmm" mean? Are you seriously likening your President to Hitler?


No, I am not comparing this president to what happened in Germany in the 1930's. We (Americans) are too well informed to fall prey to such vitriol. Mine is just a little 'Caution' to be on watch and guard our freedoms. If there are comparisons to be made, leave it to the historians.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alifletcher said:


> Why are you people so against the middle class that can not afford health insurance. The poor have Medicaid, the elderly have Medicare, the rich have enough money to afford insurance.
> 
> Because of the economy and job loss there are many "middle class Americans who could not afford health insurance and because of affordable health care they can. There are enough policies out there that can be investigated to suit each persons income or lack of it.
> 
> Why are some of you so insensitive to that. These are other human beings (Americans) in need. If they pay for their own insurance you dont have to pay for them any longer in your taxes. If your compassion does not make you more understanding maybe your pocketbook will !!!


We do care about you. There is a much bigger picture here that we are looking at. We are going to have to pay much more for it. ACA is not the glamorous fix-it that people think it is. Our taxes will escalate. Plus, it is against our view of the American system.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> That is all they can do is call names. Pitiful and they are bullies.


You are so funny LL. You say that is all they can do is call names and then you do that exact thing and call us bullies!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> My daughter is a practicing physician in NJ. She said that what you were told is simply not true. Doctors are trying to scare people into not applying for Obamacare because my daughter says they will be reimbursed LESS under Obamacare. They do not want to make less money for their services. My daughter is a Gastroenterologist and says while she is probably going to be reimbursed a lot less for her services, she will make the same money due to more people having insurance.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

*knitpresentgifts wrote:*


> I think you mean Jelun? I also think aw9358 knows who you meant as well. It is in her nature to needle and criticize anyone with whom she does not agree.


Lukelucy, you gave that message a thumbs up. Why did you do that? How do any of you know what is "in my nature"? I genuinely did not know who was being referred to, and both you and KPG jumped in with nasty remarks. If I didn't know that you don't go in for that sort of thing, I could call it bullying.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That raises an interesting question -- does your daughter currently have large gaps in her practice to include more patients? or does she plan to work many more hours? or will she spend less time with patients? Any way you look at it, a doctors effective pay rate will be decreasing while their costs increase due to higher administration costs.


So are you trying to say these new patients shouldn't receive care, because the Drs will be too busy? The Drs I know are there to give care, the Drs that are complaining about Obamacare are the ones who want to keep things as they are and not worry about those people without insurance.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He did NOT do anything positive. The world knows that. However, before the truth came out, lots of people believed him - that is the point. You completely missed the point.


YOU are missing the point. Many people claimed they "didn't know" about Hitler's policies toward the Jewish people. Ford DID know and how no problem with it--in fact, he allowed slave labor to be used in the Ford plant in Germany.


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## sandj (May 16, 2012)

Someone mentioned to be there is a reason for medicare so you will be covered for Cancer Screenings? Don't know if this is ture? :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Lukelucy
KPG
and we shall live happily ever after the full implementation of Obamacare. Too bad he GOP could never get anthing like that off the ground.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are so funny LL. You say that is all they can do is call names and then you do that exact thing and call us bullies!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


I do not call you names. I just identify you as a bully. You sure do twist the facts.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> YOU are missing the point. Many people claimed they "didn't know" about Hitler's policies toward the Jewish people. Ford DID know and how no problem with it--in fact, he allowed slave labor to be used in the Ford plant in Germany.


susanmos2000
even the Pope knew about it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> *knitpresentgifts wrote:*
> 
> Lukelucy, you gave that message a thumbs up. Why did you do that? How do any of you know what is "in my nature"? I genuinely did not know who was being referred to, and both you and KPG jumped in with nasty remarks. If I didn't know that you don't go in for that sort of thing, I could call it bullying.


I did not say anything nasty. I just agreed to Jelun being nasty. Saying that someone is a bully is not being nasty. Don't think you bully at this point.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> So are you trying to say these new patients shouldn't receive care, because the Drs will be too busy? The Drs I know are there to give care, the Drs that are complaining about Obamacare are the ones who want to keep things as they are and not worry about those people without insurance.


Not that they SHOULDN'T receive care. Not that. It is just that doctors will be overwhelmed and cannot handle the amount of new patients.

I hear it from all kinds of doctors.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> So are you trying to say these new patients shouldn't receive care, because the Drs will be too busy? The Drs I know are there to give care, the Drs that are complaining about Obamacare are the ones who want to keep things as they are and not worry about those people without insurance.


NJG
Doctors got all upset when they needed to get into modern technology and record everything via computers. Boy are they saving time now and suffer fewer mistakes. No more guessing what has been written by hand and information can be extracted in a heartbeat. One of our groups is doing a survey and so far has found not even one Doctor who intents to quit because of Obamacare. Not one. Perhaps we come upon some old Practitioners who have delayed retiring and will do so now.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Not that they SHOULDN'T receive care. Not that. It is just that doctors will be overwhelmed and cannot handle the amount of new patients.
> 
> I hear it from all kinds of doctors.


Lukelucy
Don't worry about Doctors, they will be doing fine with all of the additonal highly qualified Assistants at their sides. I value Nurse Practitioners highly. They have been keeping Patients alive in the ERs for a long time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you aware that President Obama has eliminated the caps on medical expenses. In order to be eligible for a HSA (Health Savings Account) Your high deductible plan has to have minimum deductibles and a maximum cap. Most Obamacare plans will meet the minimum annual deductible but without the cap no one will be eligible for the HSA.
> 
> The expansion of the HSA was one of the items the Republicans wanted expanded when they first started with health care reform. I wonder how many millions of people will be victims of this part of Obamacare.
> 
> ...


This is incredible. So many people are going to suffer under this.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I did not say anything nasty. I just agreed to Jelun being nasty. Saying that someone is a bully is not being nasty. Don't think you bully at this point.


Thank you.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you.


Hope that helps. Sorry.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> *knitpresentgifts wrote:*
> 
> Lukelucy, you gave that message a thumbs up. Why did you do that? How do any of you know what is "in my nature"? I genuinely did not know who was being referred to, and both you and KPG jumped in with nasty remarks. If I didn't know that you don't go in for that sort of thing, I could call it bullying.


No kidding!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I did not say anything nasty. I just agreed to Jelun being nasty. Saying that someone is a bully is not being nasty. Don't think you bully at this point.


Isn't calling someone a bully name-calling?

Lukelucy where is your evidence that it's the ACA that's causing some health insurance to go up? Health insurance ALWAYS goes up. Those insurance companies are in business to make money. Why don't you ever blame the companies that are making the money for premium increases? I think many people can attest to the fact that premiums went up before the ACA came on the scene. 
Also, why are you giving thumbs up to the person who said that recipients of Medicare don't want to work---they're just taking the hard-earned money of other working citizens? I guess you aren't receiving Medicare or Social Security yet. When/if you become eligible are you going to give it back? I can't believe you really think that. You need to take a step back and read some articles of fact rather than concentrating on right-wing biased columns. It's comforting to you to read people who agree with and help form your opinion, and it can be more than a bit uncomfortable to read the FACTS that don't validate your preconceived ideas about something. Believe me, I have subjected myself to the likes of Glen Beck and his Blaze and a few others of that leaning, and their drivel is preposterous! Try to be OBJECTIVE.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I cannot believe what you have written. Please tell me this is satire. Otherwise, the kindest thing anyone could say about you is that you are profoundly ignorant. The alternative is too horrifying.


It certainly is!!!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, he most certainly did ease the pain of 1.5 million Germans (plus that of 7.5M other Europeans)--by jamming them into his gas chambers. What a humanitarian. What a guy.
> 
> I can't believe you posted this. I'm appalled.


I am in total agreement!!!


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## alifletcher (Jun 8, 2012)

How can your taxes escalate if people have their own insurance.
Where are you getting this information. Please become more informed and less fearful.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> We all pay in so we are entitled. We have already paid for it!


But you get back more than you pay into it, so...


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> If the world new how bad Hitler was in the beginning, he would not have taken it. Hitler fooled the world for a while. Do not criticize because the timing is wrong. You are taking history out of context.


Lucklucy, It wasn't a matter of Ford being "fooled" by Hitler. Ford was *always* and anti-semite & refused to hire them for his factories, the first of which was opened in 1902-1903. Hitler didn't begin his rise to power until the late 1920s.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Lucklucy, It wasn't a matter of Ford being "fooled" by Hitler. Ford was *always* and anti-semite & refused to hire them for his factories, the first of which was opened in 1902-1903. Hitler didn't begin his rise to power until the late 1920s.


Can you give me a source to show how Ford was an anti-Semite. I don't buy Ford anyway! Terrible if he was anti-Semite. Shame on him!


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> From the Wall Street Journal:
> 
> (this should be posted every day!)
> 
> PLEASE READ!


You are aware that this is a work of fiction, right? Espousing it as fact is like believing that no one should be vaccinated for any disease or use penicillin because it will protect us from invading aliens who are casting covetous eyes on our planet because disease organisms are what defeated them in H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You are aware that this is a work of fiction, right? Espousing it as fact is like believing that no one should be vaccinated for any disease or use penicillin because it will protect us from invading aliens who are casting covetous eyes on our planet because disease organisms are what defeated them in H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds...


Not necessarily.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Don't worry about Doctors, they will be doing fine with all of the additonal highly qualified Assistants at their sides. I value Nurse Practitioners highly. They have been keeping Patients alive in the ERs for a long time.


Have personal friendships with 'all sorts of doctors? LL?
most people unless they are related to a doctor don't get the chance to meet 'all sorts' of doctors. do you belong to a group of doctors??YOu are not a doctor or we would have heard about it. I know you really believe what you are saying but the thing is you make so many flat statements. Why don't you say I think in front of your statements- that makes it more truthful. You are welcome to THINK what you wish but you shouldn't appear to KNOW unless you really know.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Have personal friendships with 'all sorts of doctors? LL?
> most people unless they are related to a doctor don't get the chance to meet 'all sorts' of doctors. do you belong to a group of doctors??YOu are not a doctor or we would have heard about it. I know you really believe what you are saying but the thing is you make so many flat statements. Why don't you say I think in front of your statements- that makes it more truthful. You are welcome to THINK what you wish but you shouldn't appear to KNOW unless you really know.


Do social relationships count?


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Jokim said:


> No, I am not comparing this president to what happened in Germany in the 1930's. We (Americans) are too well informed to fall prey to such vitriol. Mine is just a little 'Caution' to be on watch and guard our freedoms. If there are comparisons to be made, leave it to the historians.


Unfortunately, we are not immune to vitriol. Witness McCarthyism, which threatened the fabric of our society, and what is going on today, with seemingly intelligent people swallowing the tea party codswallop whole without bothering to think.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Can you give me a source to show how Ford was an anti-Semite. I don't buy Ford anyway! Terrible if he was anti-Semite. Shame on him!


You can read any biography of him, or you can do a google using his name, Henry Ford, in conjunction with Jews or antisemitism


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Do social relationships count?


certainly -- that is what I asked - do you discuss this with lots of doctors? It is unusual unless you are somehow able to discuss these things and quote them as you know them so well. I was questioning that you heard from 'a lot' of doctors and asked where you knew that many.

I just wondered how you heard from all kinds of doctors.

""""I hear it from all kinds of doctors"""""".


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Unfortunately, we are not immune to vitriol. Witness McCarthyism, which threatened the fabric of our society, and what is going on today, with seemingly intelligent people swallowing the tea party codswallop whole without bothering to think.


So, one has to keep an open mind as to what is happening. It is very difficult because the government keeps so much from us (and I can understand some of it - they don't want mass riots). Anyway, one must keep an open mind. If we do not, we become robots.


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## pam j (May 15, 2011)

I pay $5-60 for my scripts Im on a pension


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## pam j (May 15, 2011)

sorry should have said from aussie


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You can read any biography of him, or you can do a google using his name, Henry Ford, in conjunction with Jews or antisemitism


I will do that as soon as I can. It seems that I am so busy and overwhelmed. But, will do.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Will people get subsidies to help pay for their insurance? Where do you think the money for the subsidies comes from?


Me, you, and whoever is reading this, and everyone else except the government (i.e. Senate, President and House).


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> certainly -- that is what I asked - do you discuss this with lots of doctors? It is unusual unless you are somehow able to discuss these things and quote them as you know them so well. I was questioning that you heard from 'a lot' of doctors and asked where you knew that many.
> 
> I just wondered how you heard from all kinds of doctors.
> 
> """"I hear it from all kinds of doctors"""""".


I must say that I have contact with doctors socially and in practice. I met with one today that was "on the fence". He is the first one that was so. All the others are anti. So, I will keep researching personally and digest all that I come across. I seem to have access to doctors for whatever reason.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> You are aware that this is a work of fiction, right? Espousing it as fact is like believing that no one should be vaccinated for any disease or use penicillin because it will protect us from invading aliens who are casting covetous eyes on our planet because disease organisms are what defeated them in H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds...


I gave up trying to convince her of that a couple of days ago, sumpleby. Each time I talked about one of her posts being OPED she just posted it again.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Me, you, and whoever is reading this, and everyone else except the government (i.e. Senate, President and House).


No, you have to have a lower income in order to get the subsidies. I, for instance, am retired but my pension income is too high for me to qualify for subsidies. However, I already have insurance that qualifies under ACA and will not be applying for it. I did, however, log on to look around (and yes, you can get on although it is difficult right now), which is how I found out.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> No, you have to have a lower income in order to get the subsidies. I, for instance, am retired but my pension income is too high for me to qualify for subsidies. However, I already have insurance that qualifies under ACA and will not be applying for it. I did, however, log on to look around (and yes, you can get on although it is difficult right now), which is how I found out.


This is not good. I do not like it. Socialism. Wow. Very bad. It is another form of welfare.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Do social relationships count?


Luke don't even respond to Designer as she thinks she knows all about America because she spent several winters in Arizona because her own country was too severe during the winter.

She only pops in/out to cause trouble then leaves so DO not waste your time with that person!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Isn't this precious?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Luke don't even respond to Designer as she thinks she knows all about America because she spent several winters in Arizona because her own country was too severe during the winter.
> 
> She only pops in/out to cause trouble then leaves so DO not waste your time with that person!


I hear you...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Isn't this precious?


So precious. Thank you!


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## K Pearl (Jul 31, 2013)

I would like to share my experience with the public and private health systems. None of them are perfect. On the public health system I have had friends who have been diagnosed with cancer taken into hospital right away, operated on by the same specialists as private health uses, radiation new teeth medications free of charge. If you need none life there terming treatment eg hip or knee surgery you do go on a waiting list which cann be up to 2years. I have been in Private health for years it's very expensive top level about $2000 per year and there is a gap of $500 to pay if you go into hospital. They are very clever about not covering for hip . Knee and other things when you are older,. Then when you need it most when you retire and can no longer pay private health costs, all those years of paying means nothing you are no longer covered. I now tell young people to put the $2000 a year in a high interest account after a few years watch. it grow . When needed you can pay for private health plus the money is growing in interest and it will be in the millions by the time you are old. 
A toast to you all. - Hears to your health , without health there is no wealth ,without wealth there is no health, so hears to you bloody health. : )


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

K Pearl said:


> I would like to share my experience with the public and private health systems. None of them are perfect. On the public health system I have had friends who have been diagnosed with cancer taken into hospital right away, operated on by the same specialists as private health uses, radiation new teeth medications free of charge. If you need none life there terming treatment eg hip or knee surgery you do go on a waiting list which cann be up to 2years. I have been in Private health for years it's very expensive top level about $2000 per year and there is a gap of $500 to pay if you go into hospital. They are very clever about not covering for hip . Knee and other things when you are older,. Then when you need it most when you retire and can no longer pay private health costs, all those years of paying means nothing you are no longer covered. I now tell young people to put the $2000 a year in a high interest account after a few years watch. it grow . When needed you can pay for private health plus the money is growing in interest and it will be in the millions by the time you are old.
> A toast to you all. - Hears to your health , without health there is no wealth ,without wealth there is no health, so hears to you bloody health. : )


I'm assuming you're Australian--you're only paying $2000 (1916.20 in US dollars) per year for top tier private coverage? By American standards that's a fantastic deal. I've heard a lot of Aussies talking about their health care system and am aware that it's not perfect--but believe me, I'd trade yours for ours in a heartbeat.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Can you give me a source to show how Ford was an anti-Semite. I don't buy Ford anyway! Terrible if he was anti-Semite. Shame on him!


You can start here

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> So, one has to keep an open mind as to what is happening. It is very difficult because the government keeps so much from us (and I can understand some of it - they don't want mass riots). Anyway, one must keep an open mind. If we do not, we become robots.


Keep an open mind??? I think yours is totally closed when it comes to the ACA, isn't it??


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You can start here
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/


Thanks for the link, Al. Good info--the one point I'd disagree with is the last, that's it's impossible to know how damage Ford's twisted beliefs caused.

This from Baldur von Shurach (official leader of the Hitler Youth, military governor of Vienna, and the man responsible for deporting 65K Jewish people to concentration camps):

"The decisive anti-Semitic book I was reading and the book that influenced my comrades was ... that book by Henry Ford, "The International Jew." I read it and became anti-Semitic. The book made a great influence on myself and my friends because we saw in Henry Ford the representative of success and also the representative of a progressive social policy."

I'd say, based on evidence like this, that we know how much harm Ford caused. Plenty. :hunf:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This is not good. I do not like it. Socialism. Wow. Very bad. It is another form of welfare.


What do you think about corporate welfare? Farm subsidies?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for the link, Al. Good info--the one point I'd disagree with is the last, that's it's impossible to know how damage Ford's twisted beliefs caused.
> 
> This from Baldur von Shurach (official leader of the Hitler Youth, military governor of Vienna, and the man responsible for deporting 65K Jewish people to concentration camps):
> 
> ...


That's for sure!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They will *loose* the insurance they have now. The company will put them in a new plan that they probably don't need (if they needed it they would have had it) and are probably unable to pay for. It still shows Obama's lie, _If you like your insurance you can keep it._ These 300,000+ Floridians are victims of Obamacare.
> 
> They will not be able to choose the *coverage*, only costs like copays, deductibles etc.
> 
> http://members.jacksonville.com/business/2013-10-22/story/florida-blue-policies-transition-not-being-dropped


Was the insurance too *tight*?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This is not good. I do not like it. Socialism. Wow. Very bad. It is another form of welfare.


LL, why don't you give us all the definition and your take on Socilaism.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alifletcher said:


> Why are you people so against the middle class that can not afford health insurance. The poor have Medicaid, the elderly have Medicare, the rich have enough money to afford insurance.
> 
> Because of the economy and job loss there are many "middle class Americans who could not afford health insurance and because of affordable health care they can. There are enough policies out there that can be investigated to suit each persons income or lack of it.
> 
> Why are some of you so insensitive to that. These are other human beings (Americans) in need. If they pay for their own insurance you dont have to pay for them any longer in your taxes. If your compassion does not make you more understanding maybe your pocketbook will !!!


Thank you, ali! That deserves applause!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> IMO Obama has done more harm for the USA than good. Our National Debt limit will eventually send the USA into Bankruptcy and our children's lives are all going to be much worst than ours are.
> 
> My health insurance premium that is paid out of my Pension is going UP by $40 a MONTH because of Obamacare!!!!! AND, my prescription coverage my health insurance coverage has also increased by 50%. Instead of me paying $25 maximum for a prescription, I will now have to pay $60!!!!!
> 
> IMO - all Obama has done is to increase all the "entitlements" for the people that are making Welfare a way of life.


If your insurance has gone up it is because your insurance company raised it on you. Obama didn't nor did the ACA.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Now they are saying Pete Sessions is the one who said it. When a reporter asked him about it, he didn't immediately deny he said it. He started talking about if someone taped the conversation, that that was wrong. Then when they said it sounds like you are making excuses instead of out and out denying it, so then he denied it. Just sounded all a little phony.


How could the liar deny it when it is being shown on several news stations? Was that a Pete Sessions impersonator? I don't think so.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> When will you stop lying? You've done that before ... and here again.


I was about to ask you the same question. You told everyone that you were leaving KP. :twisted:


----------



## K Pearl (Jul 31, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm assuming you're Australian--you're only paying $2000 (1916.20 in US dollars) per year for top tier private coverage? By American standards that's a fantastic deal. I've heard a lot of Aussies talking about their health care system and am aware that it's not perfect--but believe me, I'd trade yours for ours in a heartbeat.


Wow I can understand that. Ours may be over $2000 a year now it a while sines I've been on that bracket however at most it will be a couple of hundred more. Yes I'm from Australia originally from England so I have never lived where this system does not exist.


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## Chris Harris (Oct 17, 2013)

NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


Me thinks you are watching too much Fox Noise and listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck too much.
Allah has not replaced God in schools.
This death panel stuff is just a bunch or far right wing rhetoric. You have been taken in by the Bachmann spiel (who by the way will hopefully be in the Big House instead of the White House). She has many charges against her for campaign and ethics violations. And you stated before that she was honest. Hmmmmm. 
We have recovered from hard economic times in the past and we will bounce back like we always have.
Who is taking away your freedom? Who said they were going to take your guns? Nobody, that's who. Wanting stiffer background checks is not taking away your guns.

The debt has gone down since he has been in office. 
do some research on that.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You can start here
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/


An excellent interview. My father would never allow a Ford product in his driveway!


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## saarlt (May 5, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Isn't this precious?


Beautiful!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm assuming you're Australian--you're only paying $2000 (1916.20 in US dollars) per year for top tier private coverage? By American standards that's a fantastic deal. I've heard a lot of Aussies talking about their health care system and am aware that it's not perfect--but believe me, I'd trade yours for ours in a heartbeat.


There are no deals. That is on top of other costs/taxes etc. There is no free ride.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You can start here
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/interview/henryford-antisemitism/


From the way the article is written it looks like anti-Semitism was a general thing back then. That there perhaps that bias was more pronounced than today. Sounds like Ford was just like the rest of the USA.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


Yes, our freedom and welfare and health are at risk. Obama has made the USA weak, not strong.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

saarlt said:


> Beautiful!


So beautiful. Thank you!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


 :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> From the way the article is written it looks like anti-Semitism was a general thing back then. That there perhaps that bias was more pronounced than today. Sounds like Ford was just like the rest of the USA.


Read some more.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


You're putting us on, right?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup:


ObamaCare's Political Choices

The Affordable Care Act exchange rollout debacle is rooted in deliberate decisions about coverage and control.

READ THIS: From the Wall Street Journal

Oct. 24, 2013 7:19 p.m. ET

It's been another lousy week for the Affordable Care Act, as hundreds of thousands of Americans learned they're losing their current coverage and new details emerged about the 36 federal insurance exchanges that are still as useful as a cement wall. But the truth is that these and other events aren't "glitches." They're the intentional or inevitable results of political control of the health economy.

In the most transparent account of ObamaCare's rollout so far, executives from the four largest technology contractors out of 55 hired to build the exchanges testified for almost five hours before a House panel on Thursday. The Health and Human Services Department didn't deign to attend and HHS's contracts gag the vendors from disclosing information without permission, but now and then they showed a little leg.

Remember when HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius first blamed the breakdown of the Healthcare.gov enrollment hub on a traffic overload? Well, all of "hundreds of users" crashed the site, revealed Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president of the major contractor CGI Federal.

Anna Eshoo (D., Silicon Valley) called that "a lame excuse" given that "this is the 21st century." So, despite millions of uninsured supposedly clamoring for benefits, the health planners weren't prepared to handle the matinee audience at a movie theater.

The new lame excuse is that HHS didn't do enough testing in its rush to beat the October 1 launch. Ms. Campbell said due diligence didn't begin until the last two weeks of September, while Andrew Slavitt of UnitedHealth's UNH +0.01% QSSI unit said it was maybe "a couple of days" before October. Yet if HHS knew it wasn't ready, why not ask Congress for more time, instead of launching a junk product?

In any case, the backlog itself was political. HHS first delayed writing its rules so as not to give Mitt Romney a political target. And CGI now says HHS told the company in August to disable an existing tool that allowed users to browse health plans without registering. The reason was to let users see only premiums net of subsidies so they didn't see the real cost of insurance, but the effect was to needlessly clog Healthcare.gov.

The contractors also say their own tech components work fine or at least adequately, and the problems owe to how they were integrated into the system, which is HHS's job. Perhaps they're trying to shift responsibility to HHS or each other or both, but HHS's role as Dr. Frankenstein stitching together all their disarticulated parts is highly unusual.

Federal agencies typically designate a general manager for such complex technology projectsa company with the expertise to make sure 55 teams work together. Mrs. Sebelius might have drafted a Google GOOG -1.01% or eBay EBAY -1.35% as quarterback, or one of the companies already running exchange platforms for the private economy.

But that would have meant that someone other than Mrs. Sebelius and the bureaucracy would decide what is valuable to the consumer experience. Decisions like banning the browsing tool are irrational except in the context of political incentives. It's telling that the man now leading the "tech surge" to repair the exchanges is Jeff Zients, a White House aide, and not someone like Jeff Bezos.

This command and control model is also behind the wave of insurance cancellations nationwide. Insurers are liquidating business in the individual and small-business markets to comply with Affordable Care Act rules.

The law included a grandfather clause that was supposed to honor President Obama's vow that if you like your health plan you can keep it. But in the name of political control and equity among plans, HHS wrote regulations that are so restrictive that few plans qualify for the safe harbor. Thus the mandates on required health benefits, cost-sharing and so on apply to most policies even if they aren't sold on an ObamaCare exchange.

Last year, a Health Affairs study found that 51% of the policies sold to the 19 million consumers who buy on the individual market are inadequate under the Sebelius-Obama vision. By the time this trauma recedes, more Americans may lose current coverage than gain it through the exchanges. That doesn't mean they'll become uninsured. But they'll have to accept some higher-cost replacement in lieu of what they voluntarily buy today.

ObamaCare was sold as a way to extend private insurance to people who lack it, but its real purpose has always been income redistribution and expanding government control over health care. Liberals are now trying to sell the exchanges as "marketplaces," but then they turn around and limit the choices that are legal. Their idea of "competition" is limited to public health utilities that obey their political masters. And price transparency is a high crime if it creates a political problem for Democrats.

To put it another way, ObamaCare's rollout woes aren't merely technical or a failure of management. They go to the heart of its political project.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> LL, why don't you give us all the definition and your take on Socilaism.


<<<<whispering...."It's bad.">>>>


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


No way I can think of to answer this.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, Patty. A good reply for a frenzied post. Thank you.



BrattyPatty said:


> Me thinks you are watching too much Fox Noise and listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck too much.
> Allah has not replaced God in schools.
> This death panel stuff is just a bunch or far right wing rhetoric. You have been taken in by the Bachmann spiel (who by the way will hopefully be in the Big House instead of the White House). She has many charges against her for campaign and ethics violations. And you stated before that she was honest. Hmmmmm.
> We have recovered from hard economic times in the past and we will bounce back like we always have.
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> <<<<whispering...."It's bad.">>>>


Definition from Websters:

so·cial·ism
noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\

: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Definition from Websters:
> 
> so·cial·ism
> noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
> ...


There are different types and degrees of socialism. Read beyond the dictionary.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Ll
would you be opposed to the ACA if you (a US citizen, age 42)had lost your job, had two children, and had no healthcare? Pretend you worked hard all your life and had some savings in the form of a 401K.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I always wish I knew the age of people who are posting.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> There are different types and degrees of socialism. Read beyond the dictionary.


I have come to the conclusion that you support Socialism.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Did any of you watch the ABC news??? Thursday? Not right wing Fox news??? 

Calif. people who work not just the poor you are so worried about. But people who were told by their employers that their insurance was drop and they would have to go to Obama care. One lady interview said she loved her health insurance and when she went to AMA web site was told the cost which was more then she was paying. She work at a job helping children. Not drop or price raised from insurance company's. 
Now AMA is off line to be fix in a month or so. So this leaves 1,600 or 16,000 as I can't remember you may want to check without insurance. That would mean that they better not get sick or need hospital care. This is not the only state this has happen too. This was the cause of Obama care. So now you have to worry about the working class too not just the poor.
At the commitee on C Span it was also ask if this computer program had any security put in place. The standard answer as has happen with every commitee meeting of this admin. is I will have to get back to you on that. How would you like to think that all your personal information may not have the protect it needs???

And if you had watch ABC not a right wing nut case as you like to call it. Mention of Banghazi and a man who was there and saw and heard what was happening and it did not sound good,will be on 60 minutes on Sunday.

And did you hear that other nations are upset and have told the US what they think of being spyed on. Even the President of Germany private phone was tapped. These nations do not think highly of the USA. Not as much as you seem to believe.

And why isn't our President at least telling the American people what is happening? Will we hear again that he didn't know about this or just read about it in the newspapers or on News broadcast?

And why wasn't Sebelius fired for the mess that she allowed to happen. If she work in any other job in this country other than the goverment she would have gotten her walking papers. 

It can not be blamed on the insurance industrys, or the Rebulican's any more. It was and has been proven that it is this Admin. who is to blame.

And again it was not the Right wing nuts news it was the national news Who broad cast this. Not the Foxies as you deem to call it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Did any of you watch the ABC news??? Thursday? Not right wing Fox news???
> 
> Calif. people who work not just the poor you are so worried about. But people who were told by their employers that their insurance was drop and they would have to go to Obama care. One lady interview said she loved her health insurance and when she went to AMA web site was told the cost which was more then she was paying. She work at a job helping children. Not drop or price raised from insurance company's.
> Now AMA is off line to be fix in a month or so. So this leaves 1,600 or 16,000 as I can't remember you may want to check without insurance. That would mean that they better not get sick or need hospital care. This is not the only state this has happen too. This was the cause of Obama care. So now you have to worry about the working class too not just the poor.
> ...


Yarnlady,

Our country is a mess. We have hit an all time low. If things don't get better, we will fall apart. What kind of leader would let this happen. He is someone who can campaign, but in the end his communication to the Amercian people is non-existent. We need strong leadership and Obama cannot give it to us.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> Our country is a mess. We have hit an all time low. If things don't get better, we will fall apart. What kind of leader would let this happen. He is someone who can campaign, but in the end his communication to the Amercian people is non-existent. We need strong leadership and Obama cannot give it to us.


LL could not remember how to spell SeBelius name so had to go and check on that. So I added to what I posted and more.
Sorry about that.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> LL could not remember how to spell SeBelius name so had to go and check on that. So I added to what I posted and more.
> Sorry about that.


No problem. Your message was loud and clear.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> Our country is a mess. We have hit an all time low. If things don't get better, we will fall apart. What kind of leader would let this happen. He is someone who can campaign, but in the end his communication to the Amercian people is non-existent. We need strong leadership and Obama cannot give it to us.


Could you enumerate the ways that our nation is a mess?
I see people working, people out at restaurants eating lovely meals spending their money, keeping others in jobs. I see people shopping, I see people out running, and walking. The gym is loaded with people. People were lined up around the block at the last Apple rollout.

http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=high-school-dropout-rates
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/06/teenage-birth-rate-reached-record-low-in-2012

Things seem to be looking up to me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I for one do not care what Ford did or thought that is in the past. But I do hope we have learned from what happen in the world war II and not repeat prejudice's from that era.

No I am not a racist as have stated before. It is the policy's not the man. There have been serveral Presidents whose policy's I have not liked.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't know where you have been the last 50 years. These are not hard economic times. Those are still to come. Just wait until China refuses to give us another loan, and inflation goes up, up, up.
> 
> Since when has going from 10 trillion in debt to 17 trillion in debt going down? They claim the deficit is going down, but it is still higher than the day he took office.
> 
> ...


Thats what I am seeing too. One Democrat senator named Harry Reid said well we can solve this problem of having to borrow more money by raising taxes.
In other words his answer to the debit in order to spend more and borrow we have to tax the people more. 
I wonder how many of us could get away with continuing to borrow and not pay back what is owed.
This was shown on TV and he was shown saying this on said TV so there is no doubt and you can not say he didn't or where is that coming from ect. I may suggest you check this out for yourself.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have come to the conclusion that you support Socialism.


Did I say that or did you infer that?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have come to the conclusion that you support Socialism.


*gasp* Oh no, not that! Anything but that!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Thats what I am seeing too. One Democrat senator named Harry Reid said well we can solve this problem of having to borrow more money by raising taxes.
> In other words his answer to the debit in order to spend more and borrow we have to tax the people more.
> I wonder how many of us could get away with continuing to borrow and not pay back what is owed.
> This was shown on TV and he was shown saying this on said TV so there is no doubt and you can not say he didn't or where is that coming from ect. I may suggest you check this out for yourself.


Why is it that as prices climb the repubs want to cut taxes? Is that logical? The costs of running the government, just like the costs of running your household, rise. How can spending be cut if we want to maintain or even raise the quality of government programs and infrastructure? If we (we are the government, right) want to do everything "on the cheap" we'll get what we pay for. If we want to accept the lowest bid when hiring a contractor, we may have to lower our expectations of quality. Why should the richest country have the poorest infrastructure? Why should tax rates (particularly for the wealthy and corporations) be lower than they were in the '50s and 60s? Will I ever hear a logical answer to this?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> From the way the article is written it looks like anti-Semitism was a general thing back then. That there perhaps that bias was more pronounced than today. Sounds like Ford was just like the rest of the USA.


Anti-Semitism is alive and well, though more subtle in the US in my opinion. I wish more people would remember that Jews aren't the only Semites. The Middle East of full of the large variety of Semites, and their countries.

Darn it! I thought this was S&O yet again. Guess I should just keep watching and post here when I feel like it. This is a reliable fact that proves none of us is perfect.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was about to ask you the same question. You told everyone that you were leaving KP. :twisted:


She was gone several days because of all the Lefties being so hateful--don't you remember how you & others bullied her?

Now, you are back with the same-o-same-o garbage. Give it up!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Me thinks you are watching too much Fox Noise and listening to Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck too much.
> Allah has not replaced God in schools.
> This death panel stuff is just a bunch or far right wing rhetoric. You have been taken in by the Bachmann spiel (who by the way will hopefully be in the Big House instead of the White House). She has many charges against her for campaign and ethics violations. And you stated before that she was honest. Hmmmmm.
> We have recovered from hard economic times in the past and we will bounce back like we always have.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Anti-Semitism is alive and well, though more subtle in the US in my opinion. I wish more people would remember that Jews aren't the only Semites. The Middle East of full of the large variety of Semites, and their countries.
> 
> Darn it! I thought this was S&O yet again. Guess I should just keep watching and post here when I feel like it. This is a reliable fact that proves none of us is perfect.


This is for you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I always wish I knew the age of people who are posting.


Yes, why don't you start by telling your age.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't know where you have been the last 50 years. These are not hard economic times. Those are still to come. Just wait until China refuses to give us another loan, and inflation goes up, up, up.
> 
> Since when has going from 10 trillion in debt to 17 trillion in debt going down? They claim the deficit is going down, but it is still higher than the day he took office.
> 
> ...


BRAVO!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, ladies I have to leave good company but must go to grocery as out of supplies so here is a little laugh for all to enjoy!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Did I say that or did you infer that?


Inferred of course. But it is clear to me.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, ladies I have to leave good company but must go to grocery as out of supplies so here is a little laugh for all to enjoy!


Janeway, 
So funny. Thanks.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I always wish I knew the age of people who are posting.


jelun2
add up style of writing + general attitude + bigotry + racism and it sums up really well to age.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Chris Harris said:


> NJG, Where have you been? Haven't you been watching the news for the past few years? Maybe all you have watched is the socialist media channels. You have that right, and I commend you on standing up for what you believe. But our country is in a world of hurt right now and may very well collapse under this leader. I know it isn't all his fault. But, he hasn't done anything to make things better it's only gotten worse, trying to take our guns, The American GOD/JESUS and freedoms from us. My question is this, who's backing him up? Someone is. Remember him bowing and kissing the hand of the Chinese leader. And we are so mind boggling in debt to them now.. It was all over the news. Maybe you didn't see it because the liberal media probably didn't air it. And as for his side kick Pelosi well... quote: You can't know what's in the health care bill until it's passed. That should have been a red flag joke! But it wasn't. N.O.T let the voting American public see their secretive plana.. Oh my!! I'm totally disgusted over it. And she probably got a huge kick out of her little secretive power high she was on. If you don't know what's going on, you soon will. Maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't. But if you're buddies with these impostors, you likely won't have to have Obama's very expensive health care. And whether you believe it or not there is death panels. What's the fastest way to get rid of your enemies than to L.E.T the elderly die off and brain wash the kids. Maybe you don't know or don't care that they've taken the American GOD out of most schools if not all and are replacing him with Allah. They have the freedom to serve their GOD but what right do they have to fringe upon my right to serve JESUS CHRIST my GOD. Hope you understand freedom is for all. Well.... maybe only in AMERICIA. FREEDOM!!


I never knew there was a special GOD/JESUS just for America. Even though God has been taken out of our schools, there are any number of churches where anyone who wants to is free to attend and worship in freedom. If you have children in public schools you can still teach them what you believe and make your home a place for their religious education and worship. There are private schools that allow religious education and worship, too. You could even home school your children. I don't see how in the world your rights to serve your God have been infringed on. Maybe you need to concentrate on finding and spending time in the myriad number of places where you are completely free to serve your God.

When it comes to the other subjects you mentioned, you are completely free to work to change whatever problems our country has if you want to. Our society can always use people who work for its betterment in the terms they feel most important.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, ladies I have to leave good company but must go to grocery as out of supplies so here is a little laugh for all to enjoy!


Janeway
casual attire in New Orleans. At least he is dressed.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I never knew there was a special GOD/JESUS just for America. Even though God has been taken out of our schools, there are any number of churches where anyone who wants to is free to attend and worship in freedom. If you have children in public schools you can still teach them what you believe and make your home a place for their religious education and worship. There are private schools that allow religious education and worship, too. You could even home school your children. I don't see how in the world your rights to serve your God have been infringed on. Maybe you need to concentrate on finding and spending time in the myriad number of places where you are completely free to serve your God.
> 
> When it comes to the other subjects you mentioned, you are completely free to work to change whatever problems our country has if you want to. Our society can always use people who work for its betterment in the terms they feel most important.


I have yet to figure out how anybody can remove God from school, religion, yes. Thank God.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I have come to the conclusion that you support Socialism.


Lukelucy
we all are profiting from Socialism daily. Since you are against it, get off of my paved Roads (just a little example). How can one get so old and stay so dumb?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Yes, why don't you start by telling your age.


That's easy, make sure to write it down along with all those other silly stats you keep on me. 
I just turned 63. 
Your turn.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> add up style of writing + general attitude + bigotry + racism and it sums up really well to age.


Oh heck, there are plenty of young'uns out there who are just as ignorant as those who think that because their ancestors came here generations ago they can refuse entrance to new immigrants.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Oh heck, there are plenty of young'uns out there who are just as ignorant as those who think that because their ancestors came here generations ago they can refuse entrance to new immigrants.


jelun2
that Bridal Pair is the cream of the crop in their town, I am quite sure. Wouldn't you like to see their Family Album? Must be a rented Car, the mirror is not duct taped. I love the admiring look he gives his Bride.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> No, you have to have a lower income in order to get the subsidies. I, for instance, am retired but my pension income is too high for me to qualify for subsidies. However, I already have insurance that qualifies under ACA and will not be applying for it. I did, however, log on to look around (and yes, you can get on although it is difficult right now), which is how I found out.


How much information did you have to supply before you could "look around"? It is my understanding that you must supply medical history and personal information before you can shop for policies.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How much information did you have to supply before you could "look around"? It is my understanding that you must supply medical history and personal information before you can shop for policies.


That is enough to keep me off the site. I do not want that info out.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> that Bridal Pair is the cream of the crop in their town, I am quite sure. Wouldn't you like to see their Family Album? Must be a rented Car, the mirror is not duct taped. I love the admiring look he gives his Bride.


Yes, and that shiner! Wonder what bar room brawl he got THAT in?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Oh heck, there are plenty of young'uns out there who are just as ignorant as those who think that because their ancestors came here generations ago they can refuse entrance to new immigrants.


That's for sure! Some of those folks whose ancestors came here long, long ago seem to think they know all there is to know about American history merely because their families have been here so long. Interesting attitude about education, yes?, no?

It the pictire you posted is an example in the latest wedding veil fashion for women in the KKK, it's even more frightening than if it isn't. :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: Put a Mr. Yuck sticker on THAT. :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Could you enumerate the ways that our nation is a mess?
> I see people working, people out at restaurants eating lovely meals spending their money, keeping others in jobs. I see people shopping, I see people out running, and walking. The gym is loaded with people. People were lined up around the block at the last Apple rollout.
> 
> http://www.childtrends.org/?indicators=high-school-dropout-rates
> ...


The real question is can these people actually afford what they are doing and buying? If most are living from paycheck to paycheck, the answer is no.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> How much information did you have to supply before you could "look around"? It is my understanding that you must supply medical history and personal information before you can shop for policies.


soloweygirl
I always like it when I read "it is my understanding". Ever go to the course yourself and find out what is going on? Darn you are lazy. We had to submit no medical history, just list of medications in order to obtain the best RX Insurance. As to personal info., no more than what is on any Driver's License.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The real question is can these people actually afford what they are doing and buying? If most are living from paycheck to paycheck, the answer is no.


soloweygirl
you just don't get it, do you. Holy smoke you are not even a little bit informed. Too bad there is no medication available to date to treat ignorance.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, and that shiner! Wonder what bar room brawl he got THAT in?


susanmos2000 
the shiner? Her contribution. See how he is keeping distance from her?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> That is enough to keep me off the site. I do not want that info out.


Lukelucy
your statement shows us how ill-informed you are. Anything about anyone can be found someplace. I guess it may be a little more time consuming if you are still moving around in horse and buggy.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The real question is can these people actually afford what they are doing and buying? If most are living from paycheck to paycheck, the answer is no.


You are so right. People out there spending money on such things may not be able to afford it. As I wrote earlier, I know someone who was on unemployment and taking that money and using it to take people out to dinner. Also, for her pedicures. This person is lacking good common sense. She was losing her home, had no job, but as she said, "It feels good to do this". Yikes. Talk about mixed up.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That's for sure! Some of those folks whose ancestors came here long, long ago seem to think they know all there is to know about American history merely because their families have been here so long. Interesting attitude about education, yes?, no?
> 
> It the pictire you posted is an example in the latest wedding veil fashion for women in the KKK, it's even more frightening than if it isn't. :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: Put a Mr. Yuck sticker on THAT. :thumbup:


Or slap two on this: "the traditional Ku Klux Klan wedding ceremony"--held, of course, on a Civil War battleground.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> I always like it when I read "it is my understanding". Ever go to the course yourself and find out what is going on? Darn you are lazy. We had to submit no medical history, just list of medications in order to obtain the best RX Insurance. As to personal info., no more than what is on any Driver's License.


There is your lack of understanding again. Since you are just replying to be obnoxious, I will assume that you have not been to the Obamacare website. That is what I was asking about. One has to apply before one can shop around and get a quote.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> So funny. Thanks.


No not funny, bordering on the disgusting.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you just don't get it, do you. Holy smoke you are not even a little bit informed. Too bad there is no medication available to date to treat ignorance.


You really are a bloody idiot.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lucy, was this definition enough to send you over the edge? The pendulum has swung far, far off center. Rich people and corporations have proven that they look out for themselves ONLY. Does that trouble you at all?



Lukelucy said:


> Definition from Websters:
> 
> so·cial·ism
> noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
> ...


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I never knew there was a special GOD/JESUS just for America.


Yes, I wondered about that, but I am an Australian I am not completely up to date with these things. I always thought that people worshipped the same God but many people knew him by another name. I must thank the original poster for completing my education and informing me that the Americans have their own God. As my mother would say "you learn something new every day".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And whether or not they post the truth about their individual circumstances. You know, without trying to get people's pity...or fear.



jelun2 said:


> I always wish I knew the age of people who are posting.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

What does age have to do with ACA? What does it have to do with anything you all have posted so far.

I don't understand how making fun of people except the KKK which I think is the most horrible thing one could belong to has to do with what is going on in our goverment.

It's as bad as the senator from Fla. posting a burning cross as meaning that the tea party are a bunch of KKK members, or callling the Tea party jiadistist. That would seem to be racist to me at least. Just because one does not believe what you may believe does not make it wrong except I do agree about the KKK, it is wrong just wrong.
Just because I believe in something different than you does not mean I hate you.
And no I do not belong to the Tea Party. Still independent, don't care about party but do care about the person and what he will do to keep this country on the right path.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Atheists believe there is no God. Since they believe, it is a religion.


I believe you are possibly a nut case...since I believe, it is a religion. Now what name can I call my religion?

Now before you start ranting and raving I used the general term 'you' I did not name anyone specifically. I definitely DID NOT SAY that Joeysomma was a nut case. If you perceived that I implied that then you are imcorrect. I have no intention to name names here.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> the shiner? Her contribution. See how he is keeping distance from her?


Yep. Maybe she was in a snit over the wedding gifts they received--no doubt an autographed copy of Mein Kampf and a case of that Obama toilet paper.
Too bad. The guests should have pooled their money and purchased the newlyweds a Ford with a mere two hundred thousand miles on it--the bride's veil could have doubled as a buffing cloth in they wanted to polish it up a bit.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This is for you.


If only they would reflect on this. Thank you, Janeway.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The real question is can these people actually afford what they are doing and buying? If most are living from paycheck to paycheck, the answer is no.


Well no, the real question is exactly what I asked. If you want to ask your question fine. It is a separate subject. 
People have been living on credit for generations. Just ask anyone with a family farm.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep. Maybe she was in a snit over the wedding gifts they received--no doubt an autographed copy of Mein Kampf and a case of that Obama toilet paper.
> Too bad. The guests should have pooled their money and purchased the newlyweds a Ford with a mere two hundred thousand miles on it--the bride's veil could have doubled as a buffing cloth in they wanted to polish it up a bit.


Could be the tussle caused by her first cousin enumerating their joint ventures.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Al you ask how can we keep the things we need in this country if we do not borrow or raise taxes.

I will try to explain to you how I look at it.

What if I thought I should have everything I wanted . Say a bigger house the newest car,the latest fashions, newest gaget Ipad, t.v , ect. 

I did not have enough money to pay for it all, so mack out credit cards, do not pay what I owe or only pay what I want to on bills I owe.

Then I start borrowing money that I will not be able to pay back. Go back to bank and borrow more money, and they say no as my credit is no good.

So I decide I will go to a financial advisory. What do they tell me.
you are going to have to sell the big house the new car tear up credit cards. No more luxury items, like eating out at over prices eaterys, no more anything but budget.
So I give up the items that are not needed like add ons. 
Then i have to go through all the things I do need and decide what will be paid and what can wait. I wanted a new garage. It will have to wait until I have paid off what I owe first. I am talking about needed things like heat for home food lights not luxuries. Live within my means and budget. 

this is what our goverment has to do. If we keep spending more than we bring in there will come a time when we will be turned down by other countries when it comes to borrowing. 
We have to start by going through getting rid of the pork added on bills that are not needed. Such as the bridge to nowhere. the adding on things that can wait until we do have enough to pay for it.
We have to get control of intitlements. Like putting a stop to handing out welfare funds to people like surf joe that admit on tv he doesn't have to work as the goverment will take care of him. The kid is health and in his twentys. There are to many on it like him. We should be taking care of those that really need help. 
We need to cut spending in every department of goverment.. Not just one but all. They are wasting our taxes dollars on programs that do not work or things that are not needed. 
We also have to do without some of the things that are needed by cutting back until we can afford it. 
Yes and we probably will have to raise taxes, but the problem I see in that is the next genreation is smaller not as many people and they will be tax higher than any generation before them. They are our children, and when it comes time to retire unless we get control now we are only leaving them more debt. 
We will have to take cuts in SS SSI ect. thats just a fact of life right now. 
If I as a person have to live within my means, I expect my goverment to do the same. As both you and I and all the people who pay taxes in this country to our goverement they need to understand it is our money they are spending and not theirs to do with what they will or want. 

Also want to add as someone mention about the farmers and what they are getting. That same bill also includes Welfare and other intitlements.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> What does age have to do with ACA? What does it have to do with anything you all have posted so far.
> 
> I don't understand how making fun of people except the KKK which I think is the most horrible thing one could belong to has to do with what is going on in our goverment.
> 
> ...


The man is in the House of Representatives. 
He doesn't lose his right to free speech due to being elected. His constituents knew what they were getting when they voted for him. 
Just as Michele Bachmann's know what they are getting when they elected her repeatedly.
One thing that age has to do with ACA is that once one hits the magic age of 65 Medicare is introduced. No need for subsidies or full coverage health care insurance after that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Joeysomma, I can't imagine any way religion can be removed from our country or from individuals. There are believers of so many faiths it would be impossible. 

I wouldn't worry too much about atheists. There aren't as many of them as you might think, and they don't seem to be trying to recruit new members. I don't understand why secular humanism is a scary proposition, either While it isn't Christianity, or any other faith, and has no places of worship, it is still focused on positive morals, ethics and actions. That seems like a good start to me


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There is your lack of understanding again. Since you are just replying to be obnoxious, I will assume that you have not been to the Obamacare website. That is what I was asking about. One has to apply before one can shop around and get a quote.


soloweygirl
first "it is your understanding" now you are 
"assuming", what is next? I have been there and had success. Don't you have to apply for any Insurance Policy or Driver's License etc., gone to School and apply for admission? Wow! Got any Credit Cards? How much information about you do you think the Bank has? Are you living in a vacuum?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There is your lack of understanding again. Since you are just replying to be obnoxious, I will assume that you have not been to the Obamacare website. That is what I was asking about. One has to apply before one can shop around and get a quote.


According to CNN, the only medical question on the website is... do you smoke?

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/25/2836231/cnn-anchor-challenges-congresswoman-substantiate-obamacare-criticism-hilarity-ensues/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> first "it is your understanding" now you are
> "assuming", what is next? I have been there and had success. Don't you have to apply for any Insurance Policy or Driver's License etc., gone to School and apply for admission? Wow! Got any Credit Cards? How much information about you do you think the Bank has? Are you living in a vacuum?


Beware, she can read your mind.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> your statement shows us how ill-informed you are. Anything about anyone can be found someplace. I guess it may be a little more time consuming if you are still moving around in horse and buggy.


Being an Australian I do not know how you file your taxation returns in the USA. Here in Australia we can do it on line and I have done so for over 10 years, for some years before that I did it over the phone.

I log into the ATO site and enter my taxfile number and I am asked if I want to prefill. I say yes, and there is what I have earned the past year, for whom I worked, and the amount of tax I have paid. there are also relevant other details. It asks me to check the details and ammend any if necessary, these being the amount claimed for union membership, education expenses, travel allowances, work related expenses, but the main details are already there. I read through, amending if necessary, and it calculates how much tax I should have paid, the amount of HECS repayments I must make, ditto HELP repayments and what my Medicare payment will be. It then tells me what my tax refund, or tax bill will be. I just tick the relevant box and press 'submit'. This is to show you that your information is already out there, they already know everything about you.

When you open a bank account you have to give your taxfile details
When you go to the doctor you have to produce your Medicare card and you have to produce it when you pick up your prescription at the chemist. this is not to obtain any refund or discount, it is so your medical history can be recorded. If I am entitled to cheaper medicines I have to produe my pensioner Health Care card provided by Centrelink.

Your drivers license will enable a copper to check whether you are a disqualified driver, have any outstanding fines or warrants and how many demerit points yo have lost, all from the front seat of his car. Hey he can even check whether the car you are driving is stolen or has an expired vehicle registration. No little stickers on the windscreen here in WA to show when your Vehicle registration is due. This can be done automatically by the police car's onboard computer which regularly scans the license plates of other vehicles on the road.

Too mch checking up on you, well we here in Australia do not have a problem with it.

Just a quick question. Do you really know what information your Government is currently collecting about you? honest, you really know what bits of data they are collecting about you?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> According to CNN, the only medical question is on the website is... do you smoke?


jelun2
an enormous task we have to educate those who have been absent from Life. Sure hope that their children get guidance from others to stay abreast. Kids in Hanoi are already learning a 2nd language in 1st (first) grade and these folks here after many decades do not even understand their Mother tongue, English. Wonder what and who has kept them so dumb.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> an enormous task we have to educate those who have been absent from Life. Sure hope that their children get guidance from others to stay abreast. Kids in Hanoi are already learning a 2nd language in 1st (first) grade and these folks here after many decades do not even understand their Mother tongue, English. Wonder what and who has kept them so dumb.


I cannot be sure about the what. I do know who. It is a self inflicted condition.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, I wondered about that, but I am an Australian I am not completely up to date with these things. I always thought that people worshipped the same God but many people knew him by another name. I must thank the original poster for completing my education and informing me that the Americans have their own God. As my mother would say "you learn something new every day".


I think it's impossible that there is a special God just for Americans. Where would anyone even find an idea like that, let alone want to believe it? I must not be up to date on this news about my own country. LOL and NOT. :!: Last I heard, the Christian God still has a triune nature and all 3 of His aspects are alive and well for those all over the world who believe in Him. Sure, we can learn something new everyday, but we can choose what we want to learn too. The post about there being a special God for America strikes me as an absurdity it's best to ignore.:twisted: :thumbup: :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Being an Australian I do not know how you file your taxation returns in the USA. Here in Australia we can do it on line and I have done so for over 10 years, for some years before that I did it over the phone.
> 
> I log into the ATO site and enter my taxfile number and I am asked if I want to prefill. I say yes, and there is what I have earned the past year, for whom I worked, and the amount of tax I have paid. there are also relevant other details. It asks me to check the details and ammend any if necessary, these being the amount claimed for union membership, education expenses, travel allowances, work related expenses, but the main details are already there. I read through, amending if necessary, and it calculates how much tax I should have paid, the amount of HECS repayments I must make, ditto HELP repayments and what my Medicare payment will be. It then tells me what my tax refund, or tax bill will be. I just tick the relevant box and press 'submit'. This is to show you that your information is already out there, they already know everything about you.
> 
> ...


EveMCooke
most systems in developed countries are very similar. We (USA) are somewhat behind in some areas however. We are still a very young Country and have to deal with folks who resist change with whim and vigor. Once these old folks move on, the young are much more flexible and support progress.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Beware, she can read your mind.


jelun2
would that be entertaining for her. It woud be like reading something more difficult than Shakespeare.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Could be the tussle caused by her first cousin enumerating their joint ventures.


Must be the gentleman on the right--I definitely see a resemblance there.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance, the only thing it cannot be is moderately important._ C. S. Lewis


Amen!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:
 

> Must be the gentleman on the right--I definitely see a resemblance there.


HAHAHAHAA


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think it's impossible that there is a special God just for Americans. Where would anyone even find an idea like that, let alone want to believe it? I must not be up to date on this news about my own country. LOL and NOT. :!: Last I heard, the Christian God still has a triune nature and all 3 of His aspects are alive and well for those all over the world who believe in Him. Sure, we can learn something new everyday, but we can choose what we want to learn too. The post about there being a special God for America strikes me as an absurdity it's best to ignore.:twisted: :thumbup: :-D


It's one God, unless, of course, you are one of those special Americn Christians. 
Personally, I don't think God was removed from the American public property arena, I think s/he got fed up and left.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> an enormous task we have to educate those who have been absent from Life. Sure hope that their children get guidance from others to stay abreast. Kids in Hanoi are already learning a 2nd language in 1st (first) grade and these folks here after many decades do not even understand their Mother tongue, English. Wonder what and who has kept them so dumb.


Chinese children are learning English in kindergarten. My friend's son has been living in China for over 10 years and has been employed to teach English to Kindergarten children, aged 4 years. Before that he taught English to Primary school children in Hong Kong. No, he is not Chinese or even of mixed Chinese/western race. His mother, my friend, is from a Russian Jewish background and his father is English.

Years ago I baby sat for a Vietnamese family. The boy was aged 4 years and was fluent in Vietnamese, French and English. His mother said kindergarten children were expected to be bilingual, English and Vietnamese. He could not read but could select an English book for me to read to him. No, no, he would say when looking through the books, that one is not in English and he was always correct. He told me he would teach me to speak Vietnamese and French, pointing to things and making me say the words in both French and Vietnamese.

I think it is a pity we do not teach children another language at anmearly age when it is easier to learn another language.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Chinese children are learning English in kindergarten. My friend's son has been living in China for over 10 years and has been employed to teach English to Kindergarten children, aged 4 years. Before that he taught English to Primary school children in Hong Kong. No, he is not Chinese or even of mixed Chinese/western race. His mother, my friend, is from a Russian Jewish background and his father is English.
> 
> Years ago I baby sat for a Vietnamese family. The boy was aged 4 years and was fluent in Vietnamese, French and English. His mother said kindergarten children were expected to be bilingual, English and Vietnamese. He could not read but could select an English book for me to read to him. No, no, he would say when looking through the books, that one is not in English and he was always correct. He told me he would teach me to speak Vietnamese and French, pointing to things and making me say the words in both French and Vietnamese.
> 
> I think it is a pity we do not teach children another language at anmearly age when it is easier to learn another language.


My grandson's preschool is working on Spanish as well as English, counting, colors... that is still like the 2 native languages so I am not sure it counts. 
With the troubles in Lebanon and so much immigration from there I was amazed d/t the expansiveness of their skills. Most of the folks I met spoke five languages. 
A young man whom I met through a friend is from the Dominican Republic, so he started out with Spanish and English as soon as he started school, learned Japanese in order to be successful in a Rotary Club sponsored year as an exchange student. During his senior year at Boston University he decided to take up Chinese. 
He is now working working in both NYC and Asia, helping his family out. It's all about motivation, I guess.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> My grandson's preschool is working on Spanish as well as English, counting, colors... that is still like the 2 native languages so I am not sure it counts.
> With the troubles in Lebanon and so much immigration from there I was amazed d/t the expansiveness of their skills. Most of the folks I met spoke five languages.
> A young man whom I met through a friend is from the Dominican Republic, so he started out with Spanish and English as soon as he started school, learned Japanese in order to be successful in a Rotary Club sponsored year as an exchange student. During his senior year at Boston University he decided to take up Chinese.
> He is now working working in both NYC and Asia, helping his family out. It's all about motivation, I guess.


Be proud of your grandson, I think it is great when young children learn a foreign lanuage and learn about other cultures. But then I know you are proud of your grandson's achievements. :thumbup:


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> What is wrong with you people? Things like death panels and not giving care to those over 70 have been debunked time after time and you keep repeating them. I said earlier that republicans tell lies and keep telling them over and over even after they have been proven wrong. Some one said that was a silly statement, but here again you prove me right. Besides the fact that when you are older you will be on Medicare and won't be on the ACA, so don't you worry your pointed little heart about it. You are probably one of the people that already has insurance but you just can't stop yourself from trying to screw it up for someone who doesn't. Leave it alone and move on.


I agree with you.

It amazes me the amount of misinformation about the ACA and what people really choose to believe without any investigation. If someone is on Medicare then the ACA does not apply to them. All they keep on spouting is right wing talking points designed to kill the ACA before it goes forward.

They want to make the entire presidency of Obama is complete failure and completely denounce his presidency. That is why they have portrayed him as "the other", a monkey, not a real American, etc. This was all designed by the right wing on the night of his inauguration that they were not going to provide him with any successes and were going to vote NO on everything.

My daughter is a practicing Gastroenterologist in NJ and says that insurance companies hate the ACA because they have to spend more money covering more procedures and more people, and doctors don't like it because they will be reimbursed LESS money for their services. But my daughter says the ACA is a good thing because more people will be covered and she will make up the lost money for her services by treating more patients.

Give the ACA a chance. The Republicans freaked out when Medicare was introduced by LBJ and now all seniors LOVE IT!!!

As an aside, I think we should all stick to knitting and crocheting topics and avoid religion and politics. It is too divisive. This should be a place for fun, instruction, and making new friends.

:-D


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> What is wrong with you people? Things like death panels and not giving care to those over 70 have been debunked time after time and you keep repeating them. I said earlier that republicans tell lies and keep telling them over and over even after they have been proven wrong. Some one said that was a silly statement, but here again you prove me right. Besides the fact that when you are older you will be on Medicare and won't be on the ACA, so don't you worry your pointed little heart about it. You are probably one of the people that already has insurance but you just can't stop yourself from trying to screw it up for someone who doesn't. Leave it alone and move on.


Could not agree more!! Give the ACA a chance and if it needs a revamp, then it can be modified and improved over time.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> My grandson's preschool is working on Spanish as well as English, counting, colors... that is still like the 2 native languages so I am not sure it counts.
> With the troubles in Lebanon and so much immigration from there I was amazed d/t the expansiveness of their skills. Most of the folks I met spoke five languages.
> A young man whom I met through a friend is from the Dominican Republic, so he started out with Spanish and English as soon as he started school, learned Japanese in order to be successful in a Rotary Club sponsored year as an exchange student. During his senior year at Boston University he decided to take up Chinese.
> He is now working working in both NYC and Asia, helping his family out. It's all about motivation, I guess.


jelun2
how lucky your grandson for attending such a progressive School. Many folks here have had a very arrogant attitude for all too long. Well if their kids and grandkids remained in that mode, they will have a hard time competing with others down the road.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> how lucky your grandson for attending such a progressive School. Many folks here have had a very arrogant attitude for all too long. Well if their kids and grandkids remained in that mode, they will have a hard time competing with others down the road.


...or making the switch when there is finally a vote about an official language and it is determined to be Spanish!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

If we continue to avoid solving problems, soon we will be buried to our eyebrows in them without a chance to solve any.

Nothing should ever be off the table that touches our lives, particularly not issues which some want to push onto others like Religion. We have a choice to refrain from participation.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> ...or making the switch when there is finally a vote about an official language and it is determined to be Spanish!


jelun2
Spanish becoming our official language is a good possibility. No problem with me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Could not agree more!! Give the ACA a chance and if it needs a revamp, then it can be modified and improved over time.


cynthia627
just as Medidcare is undergoing yearly changes, ACA will be going through those as well.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Inferred of course. But it is clear to me.


WOW! Do you have ESP?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455716171115608&set=vb.100000316869898&type=2&theater


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Spanish becoming our official language is a good possibility. No problem with me.


Same--a language is a language is a language. Whatever people are most comfortable with.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455716171115608&set=vb.100000316869898&type=2&theater


Uh huh, I am going to click on an unattributed link to facebook...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> WOW! Do you have ESP?


No. Just common sense.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455716171115608&set=vb.100000316869898&type=2&theater


This is a good warning to Americans. Thank you, CB!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Michelle Obama's Princeton Classmate is Executive at Company That Built Obamacare Website
> 
> http://bighealthreport.com/10161/michelle-obamas-princeton-classmate-is-executive-at-company-that-built-obamacare-website/
> 
> More of their cronies getting rich on the backs of American taxpayers.


Graft. She is something else. I cannot stop shaking my head in disgust.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455716171115608&set=vb.100000316869898&type=2&theater


This is exactly what is wrong with the country.....TOO MUCH religiousity!! Too much preaching trying to prove that you are right. AND too much religion intermixed with politics.

We do not know if what we have been taught to believe is correct, we only know for sure when we die. AND no one has come back to verify your beliefs and to nullify my beliefs.

You all fear the Taliban and Sharia law in the Mideast, but you all are trying to make the US into a theocracy. AND reasonable people, including those who penned the Constitution also said no to a theocracy...no to a state religion with freedom of religion. That means...if I am not your brand of Christian, then I have every right afforded to me in the Constitution and YOU and all of the TEATALIBAN Born Agains do not have more rights than I or others of differing faiths should have.

I am sick and tired of the usual holier than thou prosthelytizing by right wing Christians on this site and others.

Keep religion and politics separate. The Pilgrims left England to practice their own religion because England had a state religion. Most Americans feel the same way.....religion and politics must be separate. Practice your religion in your own homes and on Sundays, and leave your religion out of our government!!


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Uh huh, I am going to click on an unattributed link to facebook...


I did, more right wing dribble. As a moderate reading it is the same as watching Fox News or listening to Hannity & et.al.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm wondering if you saw the same video clip as I did. I did not hear the word religion mentioned one. It was about freedom and how we are losing it. I watched it the second time to make sure.


So did I. I was saying huh?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> This is exactly what is wrong with the country.....TOO MUCH religiousity!! Too much preaching trying to prove that you are right. AND too much religion intermixed with politics.
> 
> We do not know if what we have been taught to believe is correct, we only know for sure when we die. AND no one has come back to verify your beliefs and to nullify my beliefs.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: Thank you, I agree.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Uh huh, I am going to click on an unattributed link to facebook...


I did because I am on the ipad, but it would not open, it said I needed to download another programme to access it. I am not going to do that, I do not use facebook. Over here facebook is used to advertise wild parties that get out of control and end up having the riot squad, the canine division and the police helicopters sent in. I think anyone can put anything up on facebook and it does not have to be intelligent or factual or true, so I avoid it. My brother uses it to play some sort of pretend farming game and my niece uses it to play some sort of pretend restaurant game, so I avoid it. I honestly do not think I would find any useful facts there. I know some people do use it to keep in touch with their extended families and in that regard it is an excellent tool. I do not wish to offend users who log on to facebook to communicate with family and friends.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

How about a statement from the AMA?

AMA to Wall Street Journal: AMA Support of Affordable Care Act

July 6, 2012(unpublished)

Wall Street Journal
Letter to the Editor

To the Editor:

The recent column from Daniel Henninger (ObamaCare's Lost Tribe: Doctors, 7-5-12) describes challenges facing physicians in our nation, but incorrectly attributes them to the health reform law. Quality reporting requirements were established years before passage of the Affordable Care Act. Meanwhile, ongoing intrusions from government, insurers and others outside the exam room have chipped away at the patient-physician relationship. Protecting this relationship has been  and will remain  a core focus for the American Medical Association.

While the law is not perfect, the AMA, the nation's largest physician organization, supported it because it makes necessary improvements to our health care system. We are pleased the law expands coverage to millions of uninsured who live sicker and die younger than those with insurance. It allows physicians to see patients earlier before care is more expensive, provides funding for research on drugs and treatments, increases Medicare and Medicaid payments for primary care physicians and includes Medicare bonus payments for general surgeons in underserved areas.

The AMA is working during implementation of the law to make changes like eliminating the Independent Payment Advisory Board. Lawmakers also must address two problems that predate the law, the broken Medicare physician payment formula and the flawed medical liability system.
Jeremy A. Lazarus, MD
President, American Medical Association



inShare


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Why don't you read what I wrote:
> 
> _They can NEVER remove religion,_ (from schools)_ If it is not Christianity or Judaism, or any of the others, it will be Atheism or Secular Humanism._ (in the schools).


I think you've misquoted yourself, but your original post no longer seems to exist, either on these pages or on the list of all your posts. Pretty convenient way to win an argument, or imagine you have. Just delete what you don't want seen again and revise it. Boy, do I ever wish I had hit "quote reply" when I reponded to the post you got rid of.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> So did I. I was saying huh?


I want to know what she was looking at? Didn't see any thing about fox ect.

She sure was upset about a video about freedom??
where did it say anything about religion?

Did I miss something?

:shock: :?:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you notice the italics that was the original. The words in parentheses were added so you knew what I was referring to.


Is there a full moon tonight? May be it is time for a bit of sitting back and really reading what was posted.

what is going on????

Not meaning you Joey the two ladies that have seem to lost it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> How about a statement from the AMA?
> 
> AMA to Wall Street Journal: AMA Support of Affordable Care Act
> 
> ...


Thanks Al may not agree with it, but glad you posted it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I too believe in separation of church and state. Render unto Ceasar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.



cynthia627 said:


> This is exactly what is wrong with the country.....TOO MUCH religiousity!! Too much preaching trying to prove that you are right. AND too much religion intermixed with politics.
> 
> We do not know if what we have been taught to believe is correct, we only know for sure when we die. AND no one has come back to verify your beliefs and to nullify my beliefs.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with you. I avoid Facebook too. I think family that cares about me will send pictures to me by email. I don't think that's too much to ask.



EveMCooke said:


> I did because I am on the ipad, but it would not open, it said I needed to download another programme to access it. I am not going to do that, I do not use facebook. Over here facebook is used to advertise wild parties that get out of control and end up having the riot squad, the canine division and the police helicopters sent in. I think anyone can put anything up on facebook and it does not have to be intelligent or factual or true, so I avoid it. My brother uses it to play some sort of pretend farming game and my niece uses it to play some sort of pretend restaurant game, so I avoid it. I honestly do not think I would find any useful facts there. I know some people do use it to keep in touch with their extended families and in that regard it is an excellent tool. I do not wish to offend users who log on to facebook to communicate with family and friends.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think you've misquoted yourself, but your original post no longer seems to exist, either on these pages or on the list of all your posts. Pretty convenient way to win an argument, or imagine you have. Just delete what you don't want seen again and revise it. Boy, do I ever wish I had hit "quote reply" when I reponded to the post you got rid of.


Or just ignored the blasted thing in the first place.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> add up style of writing + general attitude + bigotry + racism and it sums up really well to age.


Why, Huck, you must be at least 95 years young!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> This is exactly what is wrong with the country.....TOO MUCH religiousity!! Too much preaching trying to prove that you are right. AND too much religion intermixed with politics.
> 
> We do not know if what we have been taught to believe is correct, we only know for sure when we die. AND no one has come back to verify your beliefs and to nullify my beliefs.
> 
> ...


Well, if you are sick, then stop reading!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> I did, more right wing dribble. As a moderate reading it is the same as watching Fox News or listening to Hannity & et.al.


Feeling bad?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> :thumbup: Thank you, I agree.


When we want people from your country to run our country--we will ask so until then bud out of our politics!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think you've misquoted yourself, but your original post no longer seems to exist, either on these pages or on the list of all your posts. Pretty convenient way to win an argument, or imagine you have. Just delete what you don't want seen again and revise it. Boy, do I ever wish I had hit "quote reply" when I reponded to the post you got rid of.


You need to stop!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you notice the italics that was the original. The words in parentheses were added so you knew what I was referring to.


Joey, bless your heart, don't you know Seattle started a new site but blocked herself out so she is too ignorant to find your posts, but only knows to slam!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Is there a full moon tonight? May be it is time for a bit of sitting back and really reading what was posted.
> 
> what is going on????
> 
> Not meaning you Joey the two ladies that have seem to lost it.


Yes, lady they sure are off the subject, but this should help!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> that Bridal Pair is the cream of the crop in their town, I am quite sure. Wouldn't you like to see their Family Album? Must be a rented Car, the mirror is not duct taped. I love the admiring look he gives his Bride.


No, Huck, they have an up to date fire alarm! Enjoy


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, if you are sick, then stop reading!


He has a right to his opinion. 
If I cared enough to look I could probably find all kinds of things that you would think were just as stupid. 
AAMOF, how many Steinisms did you read that you didn't agree with before you found that?
Or do you only look at Stein when someone tosses it in your face?

Oh whoops, here we go again. It seems that some people just can't get anything right.

http://2politicaljunkies.blogspot.com/2013/03/so-much-wrong-in-such-small-space.html

We are the 99%

March 10, 2013So Much Wrong In Such A Small Space 
Posted by Dayvoe 
From our friends on the Tribune-Review editorial board today:

Sayeth pundit Ben Stein: Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured but not everyone must prove they are a citizen. And now, any of those who refuse or are unable to prove they are citizens will receive free insurance paid for by those who are forced to buy insurance because they are citizens. Only in America in the 21st century. Sigh. [Bolding in original.]
Let's start with Ferris Beuller's teacher. Did Ben Stein actually say what the braintrust said he said?

Snopes.com says no. A couple of years ago they looked at whether he said:

Fathom the odd hypocrisy that Obama wants every citizen to prove they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are citizens. 
And they wrote:

We don't know who originally came up with this statement about mandatory health insurance coverage, but it wasn't Ben Stein. The actor/economist/essayist replied in response to a query that it was not something he either said or wrote. 
You'd think a news organization like the Tribune-Review would be able to check out something like this rather easily.

And then there's the second part of the quote - the part about how "those who review or are unable to prove" citizenship will be given free insurance - is THAT true?

Politifact says no. In fact it's a "pants on fire" statement. From politifact:

It may be the longest chain e-mail we've ever received. A page-by-page analysis of the House health care bill argues that reform will end the health care system as we know it: "Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed! ... Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. ... Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."

Most of the e-mail's claims are wrong, and you can read our extended analysis to find out why.

One of its most bizarre claims is the one about free health care for noncitizens, "illegal or not."

We read the bill and its legislative summary, and could find nothing about free health care for anyone, much less noncitizens.
In fact, they add that:

...the legislation specifically states that "undocumented aliens" will not be eligible for credits to help them buy health insurance, in Section 246 on page 143.
How could an politically motivated editorial board attached, as it is, to a news organization get so much so wrong in such a teeny tiny space?

I think you have your answer already.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, Huck, they have an up to date fire alarm! Enjoy


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> No, Huck, they have an up to date fire alarm! Enjoy


I certainly hope that you are not suggesting that all ******** are hateful KKKers. 
That would be a whole other form of prejudice.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you just don't get it, do you. Holy smoke you are not even a little bit informed. Too bad there is no medication available to date to treat ignorance.


His one is for you! Enjoy


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> When we want people from your country to run our country--we will ask so until then bud out of our politics!


Another one who doesn't quite get the 1st amendment.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I certainly hope that you are not suggesting that all ******** are hateful KKKers.
> That would be a whole other form of prejudice.


Wow, how did you get KKK out of the smoke alarm! Good golly did you forget your medications again?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Another one who doesn't quite get the 1st amendment.


I don't butt into their politics!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I don't butt into their politics!


Would that be because you don't care about anyone but yourself?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Wow, how did you get KKK out of the smoke alarm! Good golly did you forget your medications again?


The post that you were so clever about responding to was about members of the Ku Klux Klan
and then you responded with...

Huckleberry wrote:
jelun2
that Bridal Pair is the cream of the crop in their town, I am quite sure. Wouldn't you like to see their Family Album? Must be a rented Car, the mirror is not duct taped. I love the admiring look he gives his Bride.

No, Huck, they have an up to date fire alarm! Enjoy

They? who is they?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Another one who doesn't quite get the 1st amendment.


jelun2
can you believe how removed people like Janeway are from every day life? She and her Peers behave as if we are living on an Island and are totally self-supporting. Perhaps they really live in total isolation.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I don't butt into their politics!


Janewway'
now that would be the first smart move you have made in ages. Now learn about ours and then participate appropriately.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> can you believe how removed people like Janeway are from every day life? She and her Peers behave as if we are living on an Island and are totally self-supporting. Perhaps they really live in total isolation.


There are all kinds of reasons, as you already know, for the fear, for the disconnect, for the apathy... 
isn't it interesting that there is never a comment about so many more intellectual subjects we touch on?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> His one is for you! Enjoy


Janeway
I understand this guy well, you folks have been deceiving him and others for several years now. WE never said anything was free, assisted yes, free has never been broadcast by any of us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> There are all kinds of reasons, as you already know, for the fear, for the disconnect, for the apathy...
> isn't it interesting that there is never a comment about so many more intellectual subjects we touch on?


jelun2
how could they? The deck is missing some cards.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree with you. I avoid Facebook too. I think family that cares about me will send pictures to me by email. I don't think that's too much to ask.


damemary
I have never been on Facebook and won't go there ever.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So very true! So many are so blind to the freedoms we are losing. They do not realize with every government rule or regulation, a little more of our freedom goes away.


joeysomma
you have been crying those tears for ever. Why have you not moved somewhere where there is no social order? Afraid you would be eaten alive?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Graft. She is something else. I cannot stop shaking my head in disgust.


Lukelucy
aha now we know, that is why you are so dizzy.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> This is exactly what is wrong with the country.....TOO MUCH religiousity!! Too much preaching trying to prove that you are right. AND too much religion intermixed with politics.
> 
> We do not know if what we have been taught to believe is correct, we only know for sure when we die. AND no one has come back to verify your beliefs and to nullify my beliefs.
> 
> ...


Oh, how I so wholeheartedly agree with you, and much, much more. There have been all too many arguments here and on other political topics about what the First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees us about religion. It gives us freedon OF religion. Some people believe it gives us freedom FROM religion, but that concept comes from and is enshrined in many other parts of the Constitution, not in the First Amendment. How I wish more people would take the time to read The Constitution with an open mind!

The bottom line is that freedom of and from religion is the right of all of us, PRIVATELY ONLY. We do have freedom from religion and our Constitution tells us so. When public institutions seem to fail in their duty to exclude religion, they are functioning in an unconstitutional way. They aren't doing what our Constitution tells us we must all do, which is to keep religion in the private spheres of our lives and do all we can to keep it out of the public spheres of all our lives.

I was a member, for many years, of a religion that forbade its members to swear oaths. One of its founders said "the truth is as holy as The Book to me." So no standing up and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. No swearing on the Bible in any place where that is the normal practice. Instead, I was bound to make "attestations", a way of saying one will do what is asked of us in an oath, but eliminates the use of the Bible to prove how seriously we take what we are agreeing to do. The Constitution addresses this by frequently telling us we can take an oath or make an attestation.

I am now a follower of a different religion that allows me to swear oaths, but I will NEVER do so. I wish every American would learn to make attestations and help us all understand the deep separation between Church and State this country was founded on.

Oh, rant, rant, rant and rave. What I've said is of the utmost importance but so many of the participants here refuse to learn what I've said is true and vitally important. I fear them. I pity them. I don't understand why they want to live in ignorance. These people are completely lacking in patriotism and don't give a warm quart of spit about what this country stands for.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> His one is for you! Enjoy


You are so quick to blather about your Native American heritage and all the wrongs done "your" people. I don't believe for a second you are Native American at all. If you understood the suffering of the First Nations people you would never be able to post the horribly ugly racist picture you posted with your message quoted above.

I suggest you get down on your knees and beg for enlightenment and forgiveness and stay down on them for however long it takes for you to become a human being. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They can get their health care free in the Emergency Room. Remember that hasn't changed.


ER healthcare is a lot more expensive than healthcare purchased through the ACA.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> His one is for you! Enjoy


I find this offensive in more ways than one.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I find this offensive in more ways than one.


And you've already read how much it offends me in more ways than one, too. I'm off to facebook and then some time with the audiobook I'm listening to. Maybe those things will return me to a state of calm.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You are so quick to blather about your Native American heritage and all the wrongs done "your" people. I don't believe for a second you are Native American at all. If you understood the suffering of the First Nations people you would never be able to post the horribly ugly racist picture you posted with your message quoted above.
> 
> I suggest you get down on your knees and beg for enlightenment and forgiveness and stay down on them for however long it takes for you to become a human being. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


What about the nasty pictures posted today making fun of people from the south. Or is that O.K. to do???


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> how could they? The deck is missing some cards.


 :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> What about the nasty pictures posted today making fun of people from the south. Or is that O.K. to do???


Pictures of those from the south? I don't remember anything identifying those pictures as being from the south. Are you making assumptions about where the haters are in this nation?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> His one is for you! Enjoy


This picture is totally unnecessary and unacceptable, it borders on racism. TO think it was posted by someone who called me a racist.

:thumbdown: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> They can get their health care free in the Emergency Room. Remember that hasn't changed.


That is not health care, it is stablization. 
Would you prefer having dead bodies littering the streets?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> This picture is totally unnecessary and unacceptable, it borders on racism. TO think it was posted by someone who called me a racist.
> 
> :thumbdown: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Here's hoping that all thinking people report it for the nasty business that it is.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I know but if the illegal aliens cannot buy into ACA what are they going to do, if they get sick? Their only option is the emergency room.


Which is why it make much more sense to include undocumented immigrants in the health care insurance system. It isn't like they are all indigent, can you imagine the response to that?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Pictures of those from the south? I don't remember anything identifying those pictures as being from the south. Are you making assumptions about where the haters are in this nation?


Oh please I won't play your word games with you. you know very well what you and the others where doing and what they meant.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> What about the nasty pictures posted today making fun of people from the south. Or is that O.K. to do???


I am just as offended by those pictures as any of the other "nasty" pictures posted here and on the other political topics, today or any other time. Are you OK with the racist picture Janeway posted? I didn't notice you objecting to that filth.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Definition from Websters:
> 
> so·cial·ism
> noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
> ...


I didn't ask you for a dictionary definition. I asked for *your* definition and thoughts on socialism. Being that you had to look it up, your posts prove that they hold no credibility and you haven't the faintest idea of what you are talking about.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> She was gone several days because of all the Lefties being so hateful--don't you remember how you & others bullied her?
> 
> Now, you are back with the same-o-same-o garbage. Give it up!


Janeway, she was treated the same way she treated others. Plain and simple. It's called Karma.
BTW, that picture you posted with the black man was very offensive. You tell all that you are terminally ill.
You better get down on your knees and pray that St Peter and Jesus aren't black.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I am just as offended by those pictures as any of the other "nasty" pictures posted here and on the other political topics, today or any other time. Are you OK with the racist picture Janeway posted? I didn't notice you objecting to that filth.


It was disgusting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I am just as offended by those pictures as any of the other "nasty" pictures posted here and on the other political topics, today or any other time. Are you OK with the racist picture Janeway posted? I didn't notice you objecting to that filth.


I disagree with you here, Maid. Those pictures were of avowed KKK members and, frankly, laughter is about the only response that passes muster with Admin--there's plenty more I could say that wouldn't be fit to print. They are proud members of an organization responsible for 4,743 lynchings from 1882 through 1968--as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to hold my tongue when I see pictures of such folks. They're the lowest of the low--murderers, in fact.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Janeway, she was treated the same way she treated others.
> BTW, that picture you posted with the black man was very offensive. You tell all that you are terminally ill.
> You better get down on your knees and pray that St Peter and Jesus aren't black.


Interesting. We both think Janeway needs to spend some time on her knees. I am sincerely sorry that she is terminally ill. No decent person would rejoice in that. I do, however, hope she has enough time to get right with her God. She's got a lot of work to do, in terms of her own personal beliefs, to achieve that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well no, the real question is exactly what I asked. If you want to ask your question fine. It is a separate subject.
> People have been living on credit for generations. Just ask anyone with a family farm.


Yeah, ask Marcus and Michele Bachmann. They get government subsidies for their farm. And for their "Pray away the gay" clinic as well.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh please I won't play your word games with you. you know very well what you and the others where doing and what they meant.


If you think you are a mind reader you are a poor one. To be astute enough to read minds one has to actually pay attention to their surroundings. 
I have posted several times about the SPCL hate map and about hate being every where in the country.

Just as an example:

Wisconsin:

Creativity Movement Neo-Nazi Mountain

Crusaders for Yahweh Christian Identity Eau Claire

Gallows Tree Wotansvolk Alliance Neo-Nazi

Nation of Islam Black Separatist Milwaukee

National Socialist Movement Neo-Nazi New Berlin

New Order Neo-Nazi Milwaukee

Northern Hammerskins Racist Skinhead Milwaukee

Pilgrims Covenant Church Anti-Gay Monroe

Samanta Roy Institute of Science and Technology

General Hate Shawano

Southern Kalvary Knights of the Ku Klux Klan

Ku Klux Klan

Supreme White Alliance Racist Skinhead

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map


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## Knitcrazydeborah (Oct 25, 2011)

NJG said:


> I just heard Senator Tom Harkin say he tried and tried and tried to get the money to set up the ACA web site as it should have been done, but the republicans would not let it go through, so lets put the blame where it belongs.


I'm just curious here. I heard Nancy Pelosi say that we have spent nearly $556,000,000 total on the set up of the computer system, and we will now be paying the best & the brightest from the American leaders in the tech world to correct the problems. It sounds to me like Sen. Harken was successful in getting the money he requested. And from what I have heard Mr. Reid say, the Republicans had no influence on the funding of the website construction & implementation. I believe what he said was that he was grateful that they didn't. I'd like to think we could solve our problems if we could all stop hurling nastiness and inaccurate statements at each other.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Were you the one who posted the picture of the bride? It seems to be the post that started what you are complaining about.


What does a picture of a bride have to do with a racist political picture?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway, maybe the words from a hymn might help you shake off the darkness you've allowed into your soul:

"Mercy is calling you, won't you give heed?
Must the dear Saviour still tenderly bleed?
Risk not your soul, it is precious indeed
What would you give in exchange for your soul?"


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have come to the conclusion that you support Socialism.


How can you when you have not one single definition of your own or any idea about what socialism is? Please....


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> What does a picture of a bride have to do with a racist political picture?


I suppose it's the old tit for tat game. Goodness knows we've seen often enough on the thread, but I admit I don't understand why Janeway and the others feel the need to stick up for KKK members--especially by posting an image that might have been Photoshopped by the Grand Wizard himself.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> If you think you are a mind reader you are a poor one. To be astute enough to read minds one has to actually pay attention to their surroundings.
> I have posted several times about the SPCL hate map and about hate being every where in the country.
> 
> Just as an example:
> ...


Holy Cow!!! We used to refer to it as Whiteconsin as a joke, but I never would have believed that there that many
hate groups living next door to us!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I am just as offended by those pictures as any of the other "nasty" pictures posted here and on the other political topics, today or any other time. Are you OK with the racist picture Janeway posted? I didn't notice you objecting to that filth.


What racist photo? I saw her making fun of all of us. If you mean the one that had swear words I don't like swear words so pass over it. She was being silly trying to be lite hearted and pick on us.

I am sorry if I did not see it as you saw it. But I do not feel that one can say it alright to post something and then complain when others do the same thing.
Why did you not say anything about what they posted? You didn't seem to object to them being racist about people from the south. Nor have I ever heard you say anything to them about all the cartoons they posted. Lets be honest here If I am wrong so are you. 
Why is it so difficult for you and the left to feel that we can all have different opinions, but it does not mean we have to start fighting and go off the deep end. I have seen you put up some nasty unkind words about the right. I am sure you have seen it from me.

Enough already, I said earlier today I don't hate you because you don't agree with me. I am so tried of having to defend myself because of what I say and having to listen to the hate that comes after it. 
I am tired of seeing someone who puts fact up just to be called names like teajinadist, racist ect.

When you become perfect then you can criticizie me until then 
knock it off.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> I'm just curious here. I heard Nancy Pelosi say that we have spent nearly $556,000,000 total on the set up of the computer system, and we will now be paying the best & the brightest from the American leaders in the tech world to correct the problems. It sounds to me like Sen. Harken was successful in getting the money he requested. And from what I have heard Mr. Reid say, the Republicans had no influence on the funding of the website construction & implementation. I believe what he said was that he was grateful that they didn't. I'd like to think we could solve our problems if we could all stop hurling nastiness and in inaccurate statements at each other.


Isn't this the second time you have posted about that same topic? It would seem by now you would have done some research if it is that important to you.

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/10/real-price-tag-obamacare/

You can't get much more anti-Obamacare than CNN Money, even they are honest enough to report that the money is not all spent on getting the website up and running.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/21/technology/obamacare-website-contracts/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Holy Cow!!! We used to refer to it as Whiteconsin as a joke, but I never would have believed that there that many
> hate groups living next door to us!


What about California? Poor us--we have eighty-two!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I suppose it's the old tit for tat game. Goodness knows we've seen often enough on the thread, but I admit I don't understand why Janeway and the others feel the need to stick up for KKK members--especially by posting an image that might have been Photoshopped by the Grand Wizard himself.


Oh, I have some ideas about why they feel the need to stick up for KKK members.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No. Just common sense.


It would have been more believeable had you said ESP.


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## Knitcrazydeborah (Oct 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Isn't this the second time you have posted about that same topic? It would seem by now you would have done some research if it is that important to you.
> 
> http://samuel-warde.com/2013/10/real-price-tag-obamacare/
> 
> ...


Nope. Sorry, it's the first time. I was just responding to another post. Sorry to intrude. I didn't realize this was a private discussion. Mea culpa.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What about California? Poor us--we have eighty-two!


We have 12.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Nope. Sorry, it's the first time. I was just responding to another post. Sorry to intrude. I didn't realize this was a private discussion. Mea culpa.


And who knew one adult couldn't ask another a question. Sheesh.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh, I have some ideas about why they feel the need to stick up for KKK members.


Mmmm...I'm beginning to see what you mean. I suppose at this point nothing should surprise me, but frankly--it does. I never would have expected the ultra-conservatives to react defensively to jokes and laughter aimed at members of the KKK.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmmm...I'm beginning to see what you mean. I suppose at this point nothing should surprise me, but frankly--it does. I never would have expected the ultra-conservatives to react defensively to jokes and laughter aimed at members of the KKK.


Probably explained by how nice a person you are, you are less likely to see the dark side.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Mmmm...I'm beginning to see what you mean. I suppose at this point nothing should surprise me, but frankly--it does. I never would have expected the ultra-conservatives to react defensively to jokes and laughter aimed at members of the KKK.


I am sorry I did not see it that way I thought you were making fun of people from the south.

So forgive me for that. At least I still know how to apolozie.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Nope. Sorry, it's the first time. I was just responding to another post. Sorry to intrude. I didn't realize this was a private discussion. Mea culpa.


I just realized that you are the woman who posted trying to convince us that the battle flag of the CSA is not a symbol of slavery and racism. 
Sorry for the mix up.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Probably explained by how nice a person you are, you are less likely to see the dark side.


Maybe so, Jelun. The more I see the less I understand it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe so, Jelun. The more I see the less I understand it.


Just wondering if someone who is smarter than I about this sort of thing can enlarge the pic and see where those state troopers are from. Never mind, I just found the caption of the pic, Gainesville, GA.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am sorry I did not see it that way I thought you were making fun of people from the south.
> 
> So forgive me for that. At least I still know how to apolozie.


Thanks, Yarnie. I'm sorry too for the mix-up. Rest assured these are snaps of bona fide KKK members who absolutely revel in bigotry and hate and were only to pleased to have a photographer on hand to record their images. They're the enemy of every American, whether from the North, South, East, or West.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Just wondering if someone who is smarter than I about this sort of thing can enlarge the pic and see where those state troopers are from. Never mind, I just found the caption of the pic, Gainesville, GA.


No need, Jelun. The photo was taken in Gainesville, Georgia, and made quite a splash in the international press--for obvious reasons. Here's a link if you're interested.

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-stories/199985/how-kkk-rally-image-found-new-life-20-years-after-it-was-published/


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I disagree with you here, Maid. Those pictures were of avowed KKK members and, frankly, laughter is about the only response that passes muster with Admin--there's plenty more I could say that wouldn't be fit to print. They are proud members of an organization responsible for 4,743 lynchings from 1882 through 1968--as far as I'm concerned, there's no need to hold my tongue when I see pictures of such folks. They're the lowest of the low--murderers, in fact.


My brain is getting mushy so I'm not entirely sure what you disagree with about what I said. Was I too soft?

Anyway, maybe you will find it interesting to read about one of the greatest fighters against lynching this country has ever had. While this is from Wikipedia, have read several books about her or in which her activcities are noted and described. Wees is a great example to all kinds of peope. I admire her a lot.

From Wikipedia:
Ida Bell Wells-Barnett (July 16, 1862  March 25, 1931) was an African-American journalist, newspaper editor, suffragist, sociologist and, with her husband, newspaper owner Ferdinand L. Barnett, an early leader in the civil rights movement. She documented lynching in the United States, showing how it was often a way to control or punish blacks who competed with whites. She was active in the women's rights and the women's suffrage movement, establishing several notable women's organizations. Wells was a skilled and persuasive rhetorician, and traveled internationally on lecture tours5

Early life and education:
Ida Bell Wells was born in Holly Springs, Mississippi in 1862, just before President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation. Her father was James Wells and her mother was Elizabeth "Lizzie" Warrenton Wells. Both parents were enslaved until freed under the Proclamation.

Ida's father James was a master at carpentry and a "race man" who worked for the advancement of blacks. He was very interested in politics and was a member of the Loyal League. He attended Shaw U. in Holly Springs (now Rust College) but dropped out to help his family. He also attended public speeches and campaigned for local black candidates, but he never ran for office. Her mother Lizzie was a cook for the Bolling household before her death from yellow fever. She was a religious woman who was very strict with her children.

Ida attended Shaw but was expelled for her rebellious behavior and temper after confronting the college president. While visiting her grandmother in the Miss. Valley in 1878, she received word that Holly Springs had suffered a yellow fever epidemic. At 16, she lost her parents and 10-month-old brother, Stanley. The '78 epidemic swept through the South with many fatalities.

Early career:
Following the funerals, friends and relatives decided that the six remaining Wells children should be sent to various foster homes. Ida resisted this solution. To keep her younger siblings together as a family, she dropped out of Shaw and found work as a teacher in a black elementary school. (The schools were racially segregated.) Her grandmother Peggy Wells, along with other friends and relatives, stayed with the children during the week while she was away teaching. Without this help, she would have not been able to keep her siblings together. She resented that white teachers were paid $80 a month when she was paid only $30 a month. This discrimination made her more interested in the politics of race and improving the education of blacks.

In 1883, Ida B. Wells took three of her younger siblings to Memphis, Tenn., to live with her aunt and to be closer to other family members. She found she could earn higher wages there as a teacher. Soon after moving, she was hired in Woodstock for the Shelby County school system. During her summer vacations, she attended summer sessions at Fisk University, a historically black college in Nashville; its graduates were well respected in the black community. She also attended LeMoyne. She held strong political opinions and provoked many people with her views on women's rights. At 24, she wrote, "I will not begin at this late day by doing what my soul abhors; sugaring men, weak deceitful creatures, with flattery to retain them as escorts or to gratify a revenge."

On May 4, 1884, a train conductor with the Chesapeake, Ohio and Southwestern Railroad ordered Wells to give up her seat and move to the smoking car, which was already crowded with other passengers. The year before, the Supreme Court had imposed the federal Civil Rights Act of 1875, which banned racial discrimination in public accommodations. Several railroad companies continued illegal racial segregation of their passengers, especially in the South.

Wells refused to give up her seat, 71 years before the activist Rosa Parks showed similar resistance on a bus. The conductor and two men dragged Wells out of the car. When she returned to Memphis, she hired an African-American attorney to sue the railroad. She also became a public figure in Memphis when she wrote a newspaper article for The Living Way, a black church weekly, about her treatment on the train. When her lawyer was paid off by the railroad, she hired a white attorney. She won her case on December 24, 1884, when the local circuit court granted her a $500 settlement. The railroad company appealed to the Tennessee Supreme Court, which reversed the lower court's ruling in 1887. It concluded, "We think it is evident that the purpose of the defendant in error was to harass with a view to this suit, and that her persistence was not in good faith to obtain a comfortable seat for the short ride." Wells was ordered to pay court costs.

While teaching elementary school, Wells was offered an editorial position for the Evening Star. She also wrote weekly articles for The Living Way weekly newspaper under the pen name "Iola" and gained a reputation for writing about the race issue. In 1889, she became co-owner and editor of Free Speech and Headlight, an anti-segregationist newspaper that was started by the Reverend Taylor Nightingale and was based at the Beale Street Baptist Church in Memphis. It published articles about racial injustice.

In March 1892, racial tensions were rising in Memphis. Violence was becoming the norm. Her three friends, Thomas Moss, Calvin McDowell, and Henry Stewart, owned the People's Grocery Company. It was doing well and was seen as competitive with a white-owned grocery store across the street. While Wells was out of town in Natchez, Mississippi, a white mob invaded her friends' store. During the altercation, three white men were shot and injured. Moss, McDowell, and Stewart were arrested and jailed. A large lynch mob stormed the jail and killed the three men.

After the lynching of her friends, Wells wrote in Free Speech and Headlight, urging blacks to leave Memphis:

"There is, therefore, only one thing left to do; save our money and leave a town which will neither protect our lives and property, nor give us a fair trial in the courts, but takes us out and murders us in cold blood when accused by white persons."

Wells emphasized the public spectacle of the lynching. Over 6,000 blacks did leave; others organized boycotts of white-owned businesses. After being threatened with violence, she bought a pistol. She later wrote, "They had made me an exile and threatened my life for hinting at the truth."

Investigative journalism:
The murder of her friends drove Wells to research and document lynchings and their causes. She began investigative journalism, looking at the charges given for the murders. She officially started her anti-lynching campaign. She spoke on the issue at various black womens clubs, and raised more than $500 to investigate lynchings and publish her results. Wells found that blacks were lynched for such reasons as failing to pay debts, not appearing to give way to whites, competing with whites economically, being drunk in public. She published her findings in a pamphlet entitled "Southern Horrors: Lynch Laws in All Its Phases". She wrote an article that suggested that, unlike the myth that white women were sexually at risk of attacks by black men, most liaisons between black men and white women were consensual. While she was away in Philadelphia, a mob destroyed the offices of the Free Speech and Headlight on May 27, 1892 in retaliation for her controversial articles, three months after her three friends were lynched.

Wells next spoke to groups in New York City, where her audiences included many leading African-American women. Because of the threats to her life, she moved from Memphis to Chicago. Wells continued to wage her anti-lynching campaign and to write columns attacking Southern injustices. Her articles were published in The New York Age newspaper. Her writings continued to investigate the incidents that were referred to as causes for lynching black men.

Together with Frederick Douglass and other black leaders, she organized a black boycott of the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, for its failure to collaborate with the black community on exhibits representing African-American life. Wells, Douglass, Irvine Garland Penn and Ferdinand L. Barnett wrote sections of a pamphlet to be distributed there: "Reasons Why the Colored American Is Not in the World's Columbian Exposition" detailed the progress of blacks since their arrival in America and the workings of Southern lynchings. Wells later reported to Albion W. Tourgée that copies of the pamphlet had been distributed to more than 20,000 people at the fair. After the World's Fair in Chicago, Wells decided to stay in the city instead of returning to New York. That year she started work with the Chicago Conservator, the oldest African-American newspaper in the city.

Also in 1893, Wells contemplated a libel suit against two black Memphis attorneys. She turned to Tourgée, who had trained and practiced as a lawyer and judge, for possible free legal help. Deeply in debt, Tourgée could not afford to help but asked his friend Ferdinand L. Barnett if he could. Barnett accepted the pro bono job. Born in Alabama, Barnett had become the editor of the Chicago Conservator in 1878. He was an assistant state attorney for 14 years.

Personal life:
Ida B. Wells-Barnett House is a Chicago Landmark and National Historic Landmark.In 1895, Wells married her husband, Barnett. She set an early precedent as being one of the first married American women to keep her own last name along with her husband's.

The couple had four children: Charles, Herman, Ida, and Alfreda. In her autobiography, A Divided Duty, Wells described the difficulty she had splitting her time between her family and her work. She continued to work after the birth of her first child, traveling and bringing the infant Charles with her. Although she tried to balance her worlds, she could not be as active in her work. Susan B. Anthony said she seemed "distracted". After having her second child, Wells stepped out of her touring and public life for a time, as she could no longer balance her job with her family.

Later public career:
Wells received much support from other social activists and her fellow clubwomen. In his response to her article in the Free Speech, Frederick Douglass expressed approval of her work: "You have done your people and mine a service...What a revelation of existing conditions your writing has been for me." (Freedman, 1994). Wells took her anti-lynching campaign to Europe with the help of many supporters. In 1896, Wells founded the National Association of Colored Women, and also founded the National Afro-American Council. Wells formed the Women's Era Club, the first civic organization for African-American women. This later was named the Ida B. Wells Club, in honor of its founder.

In 1899, Wells was struggling to manage a home life and a career life, but she was still a fierce campaigner in the anti-lynching circle. This was illustrated when the National Association of Colored Women's club met that year in Chicago. To Wells' surprise, she was not invited to take part in the convention. When she confronted the president of the club, Mrs. Terrell told her that the women of Chicago wrote to say that if Wells were to take part in the club, they would no longer aid the association. Wells later learned that Terrell's own competitiveness played a part.

After traveling through the British Isles and the United States teaching and lecturing about the problem of lynchings in the United States, Wells settled in Chicago and worked to improve conditions for its rapidly growing African-American population. People were starting to move out of the South to northern industrial cities in the Great Migration. Competition for jobs and housing caused a rise in social tensions because of the rapid changes. African-American migrants also competed with an expanding wave of rural immigrants from Europe, who were now in competition for jobs. Wells spent the latter thirty years of her life in Chicago working on urban reform. She also raised her family and worked on her autobiography. After her retirement, Wells wrote her autobiography, Crusade for Justice (1928).

She never finished it; the book ends in the middle of a sentence, in the middle of a word. Wells died of uremia (kidney failure) in Chicago on March 25, 1931, at the age of sixty-eight.

Europe:
Wells took two tours to Europe on her campaign for justice, the first in 1893 and the second in 1894. While she was in Europe she spent her time in both Scotland and England, where she gave many speeches and newspaper interviews.

In 1893, Wells went to Great Britain at the invitation of Catherine Impey, a British Quaker. An opponent of imperialism and proponent of racial equality, Impey wanted to ensure that the British public learned about the problem of lynching. Wells rallied a moral crusade among the British. Although Wells and her speeches, complete with at least one grisly photograph showing grinning white children posing beneath a suspended corpse, caused a stir among audiences, they still remained doubtful. Her intentions were to raise money and expose the United States problem with lynching, but Wells was paid so little that she could barely pay her travel expenses.

Wells returned to Great Britain in 1894. Before leaving she called on William Penn Nixon, the editor of Daily Inter-Ocean. This was a Chicago paper that the local Republican Party organ and competitor to the Democratic Chicago Tribune. The Daily Inter- Ocean was the only paper in the US that persistently denounced lynching. After she told Nixon about her planned tour in England, he asked her to write for the newspaper while on tour. She became the first black woman to be a paid correspondent for a mainstream white newspaper. (Tourgée had been writing a column for the same paper.)

One article was "In Pembroke Chapel." She was invited to speak by the minister C.F. Aked. He found it difficult to accept her accounts, but after traveling to the New York World's Fair, read in local papers about the Miller lynching in Bardwell, Kentucky. He realized that Wells' accounts were accurate. Wells was effective in speaking to European audiences. They were shocked to learn about the extent of violence against blacks in the US. Wells' two tours to Europe helped gain support for her cause. She called for the formation of groups to formally protest the lynchings. Wells helped catalyze anti-lynching groups in Europe, which tried to press the US to guarantee the safety of blacks in the South.

Willard controversy:
It was in England that Wells and Frances Willard first clashed. Willard was the secretary of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, one of the most formidable women's organizations in the country, with branches in every state and a membership of over 200,000. Willard had used the issue of temperance to politicize women who saw organizing for suffrage as too radical.

Wells' anti-lynching campaign brought the two to England concurrently. As Wells described the horrors of American lynchings, British liberals were incredulous that white women such as Willardwho had been heralded in the English press as the "Uncrowned Queen of American Democracy"would turn a blind eye to such violence. Wells correctly accused Willard of being silent on the issue of lynchings, and of making racial comments which would add fuel to the fire of mob violence. To support her assertion, Wells referred to an interview Willard had conducted during a tour of the South in which Willard had cast aspersions on the race, blaming blacks for the defeat of temperance legislation. "The colored race multiplies like the locusts of Egypt," she had said, and "the grog shop is its center of power... The safety of women, of childhood, of the home is menaced in a thousand localities."

In response, Willard and her powerful hostess and counterpart, Lady Somerset, attempted to use their influence to keep Wells' comments out of the press. Wells responded by revealing that despite Willard's abolitionist forbears and black friends, no black women were admitted to the WCTU's southern branches.

The dispute between Wells and Willard in England intensified the vicious campaign against Wells in the American Press. The New York Times ran an article insisting that black men were prone to rape, and that Wells was a "slanderous and nasty minded mulatress" who was looking for more "income" than "outcome." These vitriolic attacks in the American press swayed many Britons to Wells' cause. "It is idle for men to say that the conditions which Miss Wells describes do not exist," a British editor wrote. "Whites of America may not think so; British Christianity does and all the scurrility of the American press won't alter the facts."

Wells' British tour was ultimately a personal success, and led to the formation of the British Anti-Lynching Committee, which included such notables and the Duke of Argyll, the Archbishop of Canterbury, members of Parliament, and the editors of The Manchester Guardian.

Southern Horrors and The Red Record: 
In 1892 she published a pamphlet titled Southern Horrors: Lynch Law in All Its Phases, and A Red Record, 18921894, which documented research on a lynching. Having examined many accounts of lynching based on alleged "rape of white women," she concluded that Southerners concocted rape as an excuse to hide their real reason for lynchings: black economic progress, which threatened not only white Southerners' pocketbooks, but also their ideas about black inferiority.

"The lesson this teaches and which every Afro-American should ponder well, is that a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give. When the white man who is always the aggressor knows he runs as great a risk of biting the dust every time his Afro-American victim does, he will have greater respect for Afro-American life. The more the Afro-American yields and cringes and begs, the more he has to do so, the more he is insulted, outraged and lynched."

The Red Record is a one hundred page pamphlet describing lynching in the United States since the Emancipation Proclamation, while also describing blacks struggles since the time of the Emancipation Proclamation. The Red Record begins by explaining the alarming severity of the lynching situation in the United States. An ignorance of lynching in the U.S., according to Wells, developed over a span of ten years. Wells talks about slavery, saying the black mans body and soul were owned by the white man. The soul was dwarfed by the white man, and the body was preserved because of its value. She mentions that ten thousand ******* have been killed in cold blood, without the formality of judicial trial and legal execution, therefore launching her campaign against lynching in this pamphlet, The Red Record.

Frederick Douglass wrote an article explaining three eras of Southern barbarism and the excuses that coincided with each. Wells goes into detail about each excuse:

The first excuse that Wells explains is the necessity of the white man to repress and stamp out alleged race riots. Once the Civil War ended, there were many riots supposedly being planned by blacks; whites panicked and resisted them forcefully.

The second excuse came during the Reconstruction Era: blacks were lynched because whites feared ***** Domination and wanted to stay powerful in the government. Wells encouraged those threatened to move their families somewhere safe.

The third excuse was: Blacks had to be killed to avenge their assaults upon women. Wells explains that any relationship between a white woman and a black man was considered rape during that time period. In this article she states, Nobody in this section of the country believes the old threadbare lie that ***** men rape white women.
Wells lists fourteen pages of statistics concerning lynching done from 18921895; she also includes pages of graphic stories detailing lynching done in the South. She credits the findings to white correspondents, white press bureaus, and white newspapers. The Red Record was a huge pamphlet, not only in size, but in influence.

Despite Wells-Barnett's attempt to garner support among white Americans against lynching, she felt her campaign could not overturn the economic interests whites had in using lynching as an instrument to maintain Southern order and discourage Black prosperity, specifically Black men's economic ventures. Ultimately, Wells-Barnett concluded that reason and compassion for the plight of the ***** would never appeal to Southern whites. This pessimism however was not defeating. It made Wells-Barnett realize that armed resistance was perhaps the *****'s only defense against lynching, and launched her efforts to use more powerful white nations like Britain to shame and sanction the racist practices of America.

Rhetorical style and effect:
Wells 1892 speech, Southern Horrors: Lynch Law in All Its Phases is important as a historical document and as the initiating event in what became a social movement; as a rhetorical work, it is significant in three respects.

First, as in her writings, she used evidence and argument in highly sophisticated ways, ways that prevented members of the audience from dismissing her claims as biased or untrue.

Second, the speech was an insightful and sophisticated analysis of the interrelationship of sex, race, and class.

Third, in contrast to the rhetorical acts of women, this speech contained no stylistic markers indicating attempts by a woman speaker to appear womanly in what is perceived as a male role-that of rhetor.

Wells use of evidence and argument had to overcome severe obstacles. She had to refute the cultural history of sexism that made the cry of rape (of a white woman) adequate justification for violence against Afro-Americans.

In order to prove this point, Wells used evidence from irrefutable sources. She used an excerpt from her own originally anonymous editorial in the Memphis Free Speech which was in response to the unlawful murders of three of her fellow townsmen, as well as two responses to her editorial from white newspapers: The Daily Commercial and The Evening Scimitar.

Nobody in this section of the country believes the old thread-bare lie that ***** men rape white women. If Southern white men are not careful, they will overreach themselves and public sentiment will have a reaction; a conclusion will then be reached which will be very damaging to the moral reputation of their women.

Free Speech May 21, 1892
The Daily Commercial of Wednesday following, May 25, contained the following leader:

Those ******* who are attempting to make the lynching of individuals of their race a means for arousing the worst passions of their kind are playing with a dangerous sentiment. The ******* may as well understand that there is no mercy for the ***** rapist and little patience with his defenders. A ***** organ printed in this city, in a recent issue publishes the following atrocious paragraph: "Nobody in this section of the country believes the old thread-bare lie that ***** men rape white women. If Southern white men are not careful they will overreach themselves, and public sentiment will have a reaction; and a conclusion will be reached which will be very damaging to the moral reputation of their women."

Wells: "The fact that a black scoundrel is allowed to live and utter such loathsome and repulsive calumnies is a volume of evidence as to the wonderful patience of Southern whites. But we have had enough of it.

There are some things that the Southern white man will not tolerate, and the obscene intimations of the foregoing have brought the writer to the very outermost limit of public patience. We hope we have said enough."

The Evening Scimitar of same date, copied the Commercial's editorial with these words of comment:

Patience under such circumstances is not a virtue. If the ******* themselves do not apply the remedy without delay it will be the duty of those whom he has attacked to tie the wretch who utters these calumnies to a stake at the intersection of Main and Madison Sts., brand him in the forehead with a hot iron and perform upon him a surgical operation with a pair of tailor's shears.

Her seventeen relatively detailed examples of the lynching of African Americans allowed her audience to weigh the evidence and consider its plausibility, and the fact that much of it came from the public press, in some cases from white southern newspapers as shown above, added to the credibility of her accounts. Emotional response was prompted by the argument of these details rather than by exhortation.

By examining Wells speech through an application of the tradition of classical rhetoric whose principles Aristotle was the first to codify, it is obvious that by including the gruesome details of the several lynchings she uses for examples, Wells is appealing to the ethos of her audience.

Throughout this argument there was a strong appeal to fundamental values of fairness, to the right to trial by jury, and to the right to full and careful investigation of crimes, appeals that added weight to her accusation that silent bystanders were guilty of complicity. These are also examples of Wells appeal to logos.

Wells was remarkable for her skill in the use of argument and evidence. Further, she was a woman who assumed the role of rhetor and made no attempt to give that role a womanly cast.

In addition to remarkable skill in the use of both argument and evidence, her work was also augmented through her exceptional personal record keeping; throughout her life she kept detailed journals which are kept at the University of Chicago in special collections. These journals in her own handwriting reveal notes on special events and in the drafts of her autobiography there are references made to records she kept decades prior to beginning her autobiography.

Her attention to detail in the midst of all the struggles that surrounded her adds to her historical significance as an important rhetorician. When she wrote her autobiography she referred not only to her own detailed notes in journals throughout her life, but also to newspaper and other historical clippings.

Looking at the legacy of her work as an entire collection reveals her additional noteworthy ability to adapt a message to the audience she was addressing as she wrote not only in papers, and for speeches, but also in church pamphlets and for community organizations.

Her life reveals a tenacity to push ahead despite every obstacle- to promote an idea and use every possible resource at ones disposal. Wells used her position as a teacher, a community member, a political activist, a mother, an editor, and an ordinary citizen to disseminate her rhetorical work. Her grandchildren have established a museum, a scholarship, a yearly birthday celebration, and a website to continue her work.

Wells and W. E. B. Du Bois:
The lives of W. E. B. Du Bois and Ida B. Wells often ran along parallel tracks. Both used their journalistic writing to condemn lynching. Wells and Du Bois seemed to disagree on the story of why Wells name did not appear on the original list of NAACP founders. Du Bois implied that Wells had chosen not to be included. However, in her autobiography, Wells complains that Du Bois deliberately excluded her from the list.

Legacy:
Throughout her life Wells was militant in her demands for equality and justice for African-Americans and insisted that the African-American community win justice through its own efforts. Since her death, interest in her life and legacy has only grown. Her life is the subject of a widely performed musical drama, which debuted in 2006, by Tazewell Thompson, Constant Star. The play sums her up:

...A woman born in slavery, she would grow to become one of the great pioneer activists of the Civil Rights movement. A precursor of Rosa Parks, she was a suffragist, newspaper editor and publisher, investigative journalist, co-founder of the NAACP, political candidate, mother, wife, and the single most powerful leader in the anti-lynching campaign in America. A dynamic, controversial, temperamental, uncompromising race woman, she broke bread and crossed swords with some of the movers and shakers of her time: Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Marcus Garvey, Booker T. Washington, W. E. B. Du Bois, Frances Willard, and President McKinley. By any fair assessment, she was a seminal figure in Post-Reconstruction America.

On February 1, 1990, the United States Postal Service issued a 25 cent postage stamp in her honor. In 2002, Molefi Kete Asante listed Wells on his list of 100 Greatest African Americans. In 1941, the Public Works Administration (PWA) built the Ida B. Wells Homes, a Chicago Housing Authority public housing project in the Bronzeville neighborhood on the south side in Chicago, Illinois. The buildings were demolished in August 2011.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe so, Jelun. The more I see the less I understand it.


Well, you know, they think they are right. 
So just like I think it is a good idea to sing "itsy bitsy spider" and "twinkle twinkle" and get down on the floor and help the little guy build towers and cities these folks think that they need to teach white supremacy. 
Just think of what a sad life it must be to really feel that other Americans being able to improve their life circumstances is a threat to your own. 
A rising tide lifts all boats is not for everyone, I guess.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry, I'm probably not going to shut up any time soon. I have indeed objected to pictures and cartoons that were as disgusting as the one I objected to today. Often my objection has been i the form of reporting an issue to Admin, as well as remarking in the topic where the picture appeared. No, i haven't objected to every disgusting picture or cartoon that's been posted. I'd still be protesting if I did that,and I have other things to do.


theyarnlady said:


> What racist photo? I saw her making fun of all of us. If you mean the one that had swear words I don't like swear words so pass over it. She was being silly trying to be lite hearted and pick on us.
> 
> I am sorry if I did not see it as you saw it. But I do not feel that one can say it alright to post something and then complain when others do the same thing.
> Why did you not say anything about what they posted? You didn't seem to object to them being racist about people from the south. Nor have I ever heard you say anything to them about all the cartoons they posted. Lets be honest here If I am wrong so are you.
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe so, Jelun. The more I see the less I understand it.


Please don't tell me where you found that photo. I'm scared enough already. How can anyone look at that and approve, after racing to the bathroom to throw up. Looks like child abuse of the worst kind to me.

I read back and found out where the photo was taken. However, there are enough white supremacist that it could have been taken in Anytown, USA.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

An impressive woman, MIB, thanks for introducing us. I am going to have to pick up her autobiography. I would like to get the story from her own perspecitive.



MaidInBedlam said:


> My brain is getting mushy so I'm not entirely sure what you disagree with about what I said. Was I too soft?
> 
> Anyway, maybe you will find it interesting to read about one of the greatest fighters against lynching this country has ever had. While this is from Wikipedia, have read several books about her or in which her activcities are noted and described. Wees is a great example to all kinds of peope. I admire her a lot.
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My brain is getting mushy so I'm not entirely sure what you disagree with about what I said. Was I too soft?


No, not at all--in fact I thought that perhaps I'd been a little too hard on these KKK folks, then decided I hadn't as they don't hedge about what they've done, do, and will do in the future to African-Americans, Jewish people, and anyone else who displeases them. It's really hard to remember that beneath those bland faces lurks the souls of murderers, but it's true--and they're proud of it. Yikes!

Thanks too for the info about Wells. She was one gutsy lady!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Well, you know, they think they are right.
> So just like I think it is a good idea to sing "itsy bitsy spider" and "twinkle twinkle" and get down on the floor and help the little guy build towers and cities these folks think that they need to teach white supremacy.
> Just think of what a sad life it must be to really feel that other Americans being able to improve their life circumstances is a threat to your own.
> A rising tide lifts all boats is not for everyone, I guess.


Nope, not when they fill it to the brim with the garbage and debris of their own beliefs. They'll sink like a stone.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Here's a photo of ida B. Wells. I forgot to include it with the Wikipedia article


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Here's a photo of ida B. Wells. I forgot to include it with the Wikipedia article


Beautiful as well as brave.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Please don't tell me where you found that photo. I'm scared enough already. How can anyone look at that and approve, after racing to the bathroom to throw up. Looks like child abuse of the worst kind to me.
> 
> I read back and found out where the photo was taken. However, there are enough white supremacist that it could have been taken in Anytown, USA.


I know, Maid--these pictures are tough to look at. I don't know which disturb me more: the ones showing little children in their miniature robes, or those that show the grizzled old-times decked out in white-sheeted splendor. The first are heartbreaking because the kids are so innocent, and the latter--well, how many of them not only talked the talk but walked the walk? How many lynchings have they witnessed, very likely participated in, in their lifetimes? How could they see and do those horrible things and STILL not understand that they were committing acts of torture and murder?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Beautiful as well as brave.


Those eyes speak for themselves, don't they? Like two burning beacons. This woman knew what was what, and thank God she wasn't afraid to speak out to the world.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know, Maid--these pictures are tough to look at. I don't know which disturb me more: the ones showing little children in their miniature robes, or those that show the grizzled old-times decked out in white-sheeted splendor. The first are heartbreaking because the kids are so innocent, and the latter--well, how many of them not only talked the talk but walked the walk? How many lynchings have they witnessed, very likely participated in, in their lifetimes? How could they see and do those horrible things and STILL not understand that they were committing acts of torture and murder?


I was really hoping that the pic was from Michigan or somewhere like that.
OK, I wonder why my sleep patterns are all messed up. Nite, Folks.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I read back and found out where the photo was taken. However, there are enough white supremacist that it could have been taken in Anytown, USA.


Very true, Maid--as I mentioned before, California has more than eighty of its very own hate groups. They're everywhere, unfortunately.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I was really hoping that the pic was from Michigan or somewhere like that.
> OK, I wonder why my sleep patterns are all messed up. Nite, Folks.


Goodnight, Jelun.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Jelun2 How many hate groups in Massachusetts? 8 according to their list.
> 
> Just make sure you add the biggest one of all in the United States.
> 
> THE SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER


That has to be up there in the top 10 stupid joey posts.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Time for bed. Goodnight, ladies...and I guess you too, Joey.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janeway, I have a serious question for you, and if you can, would you answer it for me? 
I live in a state that has quite a few Native Americans/American Indians living on reservations. And on these reservations are huge money making casinos. I know I'm not benefiting from the money made at these casinos, and I never go to them. So what I'm wondering, is what is happening to those millions of dollars that is being made at those casinos? If the NA/AI's are living in poverty, why don't they use the money made from the casinos?
I am in no way being disrespectful, or snide or in any way trying to put down anyone. I've just often wondered why the NA/AI are so poor, if they are making so much money. 
In advance......Thank you for your answer.


Janeway said:


> Thank you as many American Indians are still living in poverty today thanks to the government!


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## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Janeway - to answer your question about where all the money from the casinos are going, I will tell you what the native Mohawk Indians in Central New York have done.

Currently, they operate a huge Casino and have Gambling, Big Name Acts Performing, and a huge Hotel, plus they sponsor a Golf Tournment that brings many of the top Golfers to compete (including Tiger Woods).

Before they were able to build themselves this Empire, the majority of the Mohawk Indians lived in very old trailers - many of them without running water. They began by operating a Bingo Game Center and began selling cigarettes at discount prices (no NYS taxes paid). This was a very popular place for those that enjoyed playing Bingo and the prizes being offered.

As soon as they accumulated enough money, EVERY ONE of the old trailers were destroyed and families were replaced in newly built homes done by the Mohawk Indian carpenters and the Bingo Game Center continued bringing in money which eventually led to the building of the Casino (Turning Stone). This money was easily obtained as the Native Mohawks are exempt from paying ANY taxes (State, County, and Local)and finally won this right after years of ligation in the Courts.

The Turning Stone Casino presently employs over 2,500 local non Indian employees and donates Millions of Dollars to non profit organizations which, in turn, helps the surrounding communities.

The Mohawk Indians have built themselves an Empire the old fashion way - they worked for it WITHOUT any "handouts" from anyone except themselves!!!!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Janeway, I have a serious question for you, and if you can, would you answer it for me?
> I live in a state that has quite a few Native Americans/American Indians living on reservations. And on these reservations are huge money making casinos. I know I'm not benefiting from the money made at these casinos, and I never go to them. So what I'm wondering, is what is happening to those millions of dollars that is being made at those casinos? If the NA/AI's are living in poverty, why don't they use the money made from the casinos?
> I am in no way being disrespectful, or snide or in any way trying to put down anyone. I've just often wondered why the NA/AI are so poor, if they are making so much money.
> In advance......Thank you for your answer.


I am not sure how any of us can expect Janeway to have the answer to that question. There are as many reasons for the verifiable poverty on reservations and off as there are people living in poverty, I am sure. 
Just as with African Americans who are descended from the slave tradition there is an impact to being torn from that piece of earth that you inhabited for many generations to come, so the experts say. I cannot swear to it being true. Please God, my decendents will never have to find out.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Nope. Sorry, it's the first time. I was just responding to another post. Sorry to intrude. I didn't realize this was a private discussion. Mea culpa.


Deborah you have the same right as anyone else. You make a lot of sense to me. Don't let the wild dogs chase you away. :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The post that you were so clever about responding to was about members of the Ku Klux Klan
> and then you responded with...
> 
> Huckleberry wrote:
> ...


Good, golly, can't you read? The picture says ******* Fire Alarm! They is *******. . . !


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Good, golly, can't you read? The picture says ******* Fire Alarm! They is *******. . . !


Exactly so once again. Do you honestly believe that all "********" are hatemongering KKK members?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Yarnie. I'm sorry too for the mix-up. Rest assured these are snaps of bona fide KKK members who absolutely revel in bigotry and hate and were only to pleased to have a photographer on hand to record their images. They're the enemy of every American, whether from the North, South, East, or West.


Thank you as I did not mention the KKK so don't know why you people are mentioning them! Most of your so-called-friends always go off the deep end about any thing to make it 10 times worse then slam the Republicans.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janewway'
> now that would be the first smart move you have made in ages. Now learn about ours and then participate appropriately.


I'm a Republican who does not need anything more after talking to all of you Lefties. Cannot believe at one time I voted for a few Democrats but have seen the light!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You are so quick to blather about your Native American heritage and all the wrongs done "your" people. I don't believe for a second you are Native American at all. If you understood the suffering of the First Nations people you would never be able to post the horribly ugly racist picture you posted with your message quoted above.
> 
> I suggest you get down on your knees and beg for enlightenment and forgiveness and stay down on them for however long it takes for you to become a human being. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Shut up!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I find this offensive in more ways than one.


Oh, come on Al, give me a break as the picture just happened to be a black man--it had nothing to do with race!

Everything is bad to you & your friends--get-life & smile once in awhile! It is just a person saying those words!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> This picture is totally unnecessary and unacceptable, it borders on racism. TO think it was posted by someone who called me a racist.
> 
> :thumbdown: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


There is NOT any racism in this picture, but I can tell you have your head in the sand as the rest of the Lefties on this thread! Smile, enjoy life as you might enjoy it!

This just happens to be a black man saying those words--nothing more!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Here's hoping that all thinking people report it for the nasty business that it is.


This one works for me!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> She was gone several days because of all the Lefties being so hateful--don't you remember how you & others bullied her?
> 
> Now, you are back with the same-o-same-o garbage. Give it up!


Janeway, I never said I was leaving KP nor did I. I said I'd not respond to the Liberal hateful posters on KP. I'm not on KP continuously like many of the ignorant Lib bullies who are spreading around hate and insults. I cannot imagine living my life as they do. Who needs them? Not I.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right Jane, if he was white, nothing would have been said. I saw a man in the picture on your post. I did not notice he was black, until they started to complain. Then I had to go back to see what they were complaining about. It shows what comes first in their mind.


So true, if we say up they say no it is down! Might have known the Left would make something out on nothing!

We are wasting our words again!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janeway, I never said I was leaving KP nor did I. I said I'd not respond to the Liberal hateful posters on KP. I'm not on KP continuously like many of the ignorant Lib bullies who are spreading around hate and insults. I cannot imagine living my life as they do. Who needs them? Not I.


Sorry if I did not word your words right as if I remember correctly, you said you were "out" of here to do productive things.

You are sooo right about those people. Hugs, Jane


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know, Maid--these pictures are tough to look at. I don't know which disturb me more: the ones showing little children in their miniature robes, or those that show the grizzled old-times decked out in white-sheeted splendor. The first are heartbreaking because the kids are so innocent, and the latter--well, how many of them not only talked the talk but walked the walk? How many lynchings have they witnessed, very likely participated in, in their lifetimes? How could they see and do those horrible things and STILL not understand that they were committing acts of torture and murder?


I believe members of the KKK and all kinds of other hate groups commit whatever forms of violence they advocate because they are True Believes and that means they can't and don't see what they do as being horribly wrong and criminal. According to their beliefs they are doing good.

I would compare them to serial killers when it comes to being totally unable to understand the Haters. Serial Killers can be intervirewed, might tell the truth about themselve and what they believe are their motives, but those interviews don't really help us understand the killers.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That has to be up there in the top 10 stupid joey posts.


When someone can actually post here that the Southern Poverty Law Center is the biggest hate group in the US, we are reading post made by someone who is deeply mentally disturbed. Joeysomma has said some pretty negative things in the past, but I find it hard to believe that she said what she said about the SPLC. Maybe I should be able to believe she could go so far, but I would rather not. Evil exists all around us and it has surfaced here through Joeysomma.

I don't think Joeysomma's post is stupid. I think it's evil and completely unacceptable.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> When someone can actually post hear that the Southern poverty Law Center is the biggest hate group in the US, We are reading post made by someone who is deeply mentally disturbed. Joeysomma has said some pretty negative things, but I find it hard to believe what she said about the SPLC. Maybe I should be able to believe she could go so far, but I would rather not. Evil exists all around us and it has surfaced here through Joeysomma.


I have to agree with you and Jelun, Maid--Joey doesn't have a clue. I'd love to hear how she's come to the conclusion that the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group--it makes no sense at all.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> can you believe how removed people like Janeway are from every day life? She and her Peers behave as if we are living on an Island and are totally self-supporting. Perhaps they really live in total isolation.


Well, that's funny because you told us you were living on an island. Is it totally isolated?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Shut up!


You can attack me all you like. You're lucky the picture you posted isn't as offensive as the last one. I do, however find it insulting, as you intended it to be.

As I have said many times, I'll say what I please whenever I feel like it and rude remarks aren't going to change that.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janeway, I never said I was leaving KP nor did I. I said I'd not respond to the Liberal hateful posters on KP. I'm not on KP continuously like many of the ignorant Lib bullies who are spreading around hate and insults. I cannot imagine living my life as they do. Who needs them? Not I.


Before you spent a little time away from making negative posts on some of the political threads, you were often listed as the person who made the most posts in the latest 24 hours. This statistic is shown on KP's "Home" page. Yes, you're not posting so much now that you've returned to the political topics, but please don't try to pretend that you have never spent long periods of time on KP. :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Sorry if I did not word your words right as if I remember correctly, you said you were "out" of here to do productive things.
> 
> You are sooo right about those people. Hugs, Jane


I did probably said that as well! I do a lot of productive things or at least try to daily. I wasn't correcting what you quoted me saying but what BrattyPatty claimed were my words. Of course, BP didn't quote me correctly as usual. I couldn't care less what she says about me anyway. So, no worries! I know who my friends are.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I did probably said that as well! I do a lot of productive things or at least try to daily. I wasn't correcting what you quoted me saying but what BrattyPatty claimed were my words. Of course, BP didn't quote me correctly as usual. I couldn't care less what she says about me anyway. So, no worries! I know who my friends are.


YOU have friends? I'm ROTFL.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> When we want people from your country to run our country--we will ask so until then bud out of our politics!


I am free to voice my opinion on any topic I choose, and if I see something that displeases me I will say so. The USA is not isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world is free to voice either their approval or disapproval.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I am free to voice my opinion on any topic I choose, and if I see something that displeases me I will say so. The USA is not isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world is free to voice either their approval or disapproval.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

1


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This one works for me!


oh thats a good one I love it. Fit for any occasion .


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

JANEWAY.....
Did you answer me and I just didn't see it? I got some very informative information on the casinos from a couple of other people, but not from you. Does that mean your Native American affiliation does not have a casino on their reservation???



Nussa said:


> Janeway, I have a serious question for you, and if you can, would you answer it for me?
> I live in a state that has quite a few Native Americans/American Indians living on reservations. And on these reservations are huge money making casinos. I know I'm not benefiting from the money made at these casinos, and I never go to them. So what I'm wondering, is what is happening to those millions of dollars that is being made at those casinos? If the NA/AI's are living in poverty, why don't they use the money made from the casinos?
> I am in no way being disrespectful, or snide or in any way trying to put down anyone. I've just often wondered why the NA/AI are so poor, if they are making so much money.
> In advance......Thank you for your answer.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am free to voice my opinion on any topic I choose, and if I see something that displeases me I will say so. The USA is not isolated from the rest of the world, the rest of the world is free to voice either their approval or disapproval.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> This one works for me!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

See bitter and hateful. Shaking my head.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

two


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> Janeway - to answer your question about where all the money from the casinos are going, I will tell you what the native Mohawk Indians in Central New York have done.
> 
> Currently, they operate a huge Casino and have Gambling, Big Name Acts Performing, and a huge Hotel, plus they sponsor a Golf Tournment that brings many of the top Golfers to compete (including Tiger Woods).
> 
> ...


I believe that's free enterprise, pure capitalism.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janeway, I never said I was leaving KP nor did I. I said I'd not respond to the Liberal hateful posters on KP. I'm not on KP continuously like many of the ignorant Lib bullies who are spreading around hate and insults. I cannot imagine living my life as they do. Who needs them? Not I.


I went back to the time shortly before you took your vacation from posting in the political topics. During the 24 hour period from the morning of 10/9 to the morning of 10/10 you made a total of 95 posts. 62 of them were negative, and in response to" the Liberal hateful posters on KP". I'm not going to use any other word than "negative" to describe those 62 posts. It's fairest word I can think of to describe them. 62 posts equals 68% of your 95 posts.

Maybe you are an amazingly fast typist. I don't know if that's the case. You put a great deal of thought into many of your posts which takes some time, just like typing your responses, so it looks like you spend a lot of time on KP. However, since your vacation you have made fewer posts altogether, just as you have said.

I've made 54 posts in the 24 hout period from yesterday morning until this AM, including this one, but that is a personal, all-time record. While it may look like I'm on line all day, that's because I usually leave my laptop on and make quick checks of email and other sites I'm interested, including KP as I go through my day.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janeway said:


> No, Huck, they have an up to date fire alarm! Enjoy


I'm sure we could find that alarm in susan2000's home. That fits right in with all her KKK family reunion pictures.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That is not health care, it is stablization.
> Would you prefer having dead bodies littering the streets?


I would prefer that all the illegals in the country go back to their country of origin and apply for immigration status legally, according to US law.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway, most of the photos and cartoons you've posted here are rude and crude to some degree. Sometimes not very much, sometimes more. Some are even funny.

Your post of a black man saying "WTF! I have to BUY obamacare? You mean that s**t ain't free!?!?!" isn't just rude or crude. It's racist. If you don't understand why it's racist, let me point out that "You mean that s**t ain't free?" is language that is considered steroptypical of some African-Americans.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I would prefer that all the illegals in the country go back to their country of origin and apply for immigration status legally, according to US law.


I would prefer that we reinstate the migrant worker rules so that people could and would travel daily between the two sovereign nations to earn a better living and continue to provide us with affordable produce. 
Honestly, not only do I not want to pay $8.00 for 6 ounces of blackberries I cannot afford to.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Which is why it make much more sense to include undocumented immigrants in the health care insurance system. It isn't like they are all indigent, can you imagine the response to that?


 The ACA is for American citizens that cannot afford insurance. Not for illegal immigrants. The American taxpayer is not responsible for their healthcare, they are. Why should the taxpayer pay out any more than they are already for those here illegally?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> I'm just curious here. I heard Nancy Pelosi say that we have spent nearly $556,000,000 total on the set up of the computer system, and we will now be paying the best & the brightest from the American leaders in the tech world to correct the problems. It sounds to me like Sen. Harken was successful in getting the money he requested. And from what I have heard Mr. Reid say, the Republicans had no influence on the funding of the website construction & implementation. I believe what he said was that he was grateful that they didn't. I'd like to think we could solve our problems if we could all stop hurling nastiness and inaccurate statements at each other.


These are just the little tidbits of information that NJG and the other liberals ignore when they want to blame the Republicans for whatever is going wrong. Always blame the Republicans first and then take no responsibility yourself seems to be the preferred mantra these days.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Janeway, most of the photos and cartoons you've posted here are rude and crude to some degree. Sometimes not very much, sometimes more. Some are even funny.
> 
> Your post of a black man saying "WTF! I have to BUY obamacare? You mean that s**t ain't free!?!?!" isn't just rude or crude. It's racist. If you don't understand why it's racist, let me point out that "You mean that s**t ain't free?" is language that is considered steroptypical of some African-Americans.


I wonder how many white folk were pictured in their tidy little missives about free Obamaphones or whatever title the right wing gave those life saving devices that the gov't has been providing for as long as there have been affordable cell phones.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212019667595.htm


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are right Jane, if he was white, nothing would have been said. I saw a man in the picture on your post. I did not notice he was black, until they started to complain. Then I had to go back to see what they were complaining about. It shows what comes first in their mind.


joeysomma
and you think we believe this crap? Have known you for too long and got to know you quite well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I wonder how many white folk were pictured in their tidy little missives about free Obamaphones or whatever title the right wing gave those life saving devices that the gov't has been providing for as long as there have been affordable cell phones.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212019667595.htm


jelun2 
I thought those were Reaganphones. Isn't that were it started? I need to check it again. It did not start with Obama that is for sure.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> I thought those were Reaganphones. Isn't that were it started? I need to check it again. It did not start with Obama that is for sure.


I think that as usual, they are blamed on President Obama's administration as the new levels of service and new costs, which are paid for through taxes we pay on our usage began in 8/08. So, naturally it wasn't congress who did this. It was that man who is half white  at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> YOU have friends? I'm ROTFL.


This fits!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> and you think we believe this crap? Have known you for too long and got to know you quite well.


Oh, this will fit!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that as usual, they are blamed on President Obama's administration as the new levels of service and new costs, which are paid for through taxes we pay on our usage began in 8/08. So, naturally it wasn't congress who did this. It was that man who is half white  at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


OK how is this?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

So that's your excuse. Now it all becomes clear.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> JANEWAY.....
> Did you answer me and I just didn't see it? I got some very informative information on the casinos from a couple of other people, but not from you. Does that mean your Native American affiliation does not have a casino on their reservation???


Sorry, but I have been busy posting pictures. Yes, I did read what you wrote, but my parents left the reservation before I was born & did not talk about it to me nor did they teach their children the Apache language! Such a shame but we dressed & fit in the best we could so growing-up, I did not really think much about my heritage.

Most of the Lefties here only slam me but then say I'm a racist!

This is what some of my people look like.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Janeway, most of the photos and cartoons you've posted here are rude and crude to some degree. Sometimes not very much, sometimes more. Some are even funny.
> 
> Your post of a black man saying "WTF! I have to BUY obamacare? You mean that s**t ain't free!?!?!" isn't just rude or crude. It's racist. If you don't understand why it's racist, let me point out that "You mean that s**t ain't free?" is language that is considered steroptypical of some African-Americans.


Oh, I found your picture!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> can you believe how removed people like Janeway are from every day life? She and her Peers behave as if we are living on an Island and are totally self-supporting. Perhaps they really live in total isolation.


I live in a surb. of a large metropolitan city, but you live on an island so who is isolated?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Jane I see they are complaining about you not knowing what a post was referring to.
> 
> But then 4 of them made comments about religion, that started with a Video clip that never mentioned the word religion. It was about freedom.


You are so right about these people but remember they don't read very well as they thought the smoke alarm was about the KKK! How dumb is that?

All they know is racism or to slam our religion!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Since you do indeed post racist pictures and cartoons, I can only conclude you are not a Native American. If you were you would understand what racism is and how it harms the people it's practiced against. If I was a Native American I would be proud to look like the modern elderly man you pictured. How shameful of you to pretend to be part of a noble people.


Janeway said:


> Sorry, but I have been busy posting pictures. Yes, I did read what you wrote, but my parents left the reservation before I was born & did not talk about it to me nor did they teach their children the Apache language! Such a shame but we dressed & fit in the best we could so growing-up, I did not really think much about my heritage.
> 
> Most of the Lefties here only slam me but then say I'm a racist!
> 
> This is what some of my people look like.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Self-fulfilling prophecy jelun?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> two


fourteen


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm sure we could find that alarm in susan2000's home. That fits right in with all her KKK family reunion pictures.


She must be only able to use vertical photo frames.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I would prefer that all the illegals in the country go back to their country of origin and apply for immigration status legally, according to US law.


Me too! Starting immediately.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I would prefer that we reinstate the migrant worker rules so that people could and would travel daily between the two sovereign nations to earn a better living and continue to provide us with affordable produce.
> Honestly, not only do I not want to pay $8.00 for 6 ounces of blackberries I cannot afford to.


Write your elected officials and tell them to lower the taxes in your state and the Federal taxes as well along with all the payroll taxes on all workers and businesses and all your taxed costs so you'll have more discretionary $ in your pocket to buy whatever you desire. Oh, ya, and while you're at it, tell them to appeal ObamaCare because you cannot afford one more penny in taxes, fees, penalties, lost jobs and fines either for 'nothing' in return no less.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> These are just the little tidbits of information that NJG and the other liberals ignore when they want to blame the Republicans for whatever is going wrong. Always blame the Republicans first and then take no responsibility yourself seems to be the preferred mantra these days.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup: 

Forgive them anyway

People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered; forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true friends; succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years to building, someone could destroy overnight; build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealousy; be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; do good anyway.
Give the world your good anyway.............
You see, in the final analysis, it is between You and God; It was never between you and them anyway.
--Mother Theresa


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not call you names. I just identify you as a bully. You sure do twist the facts.


You are too funny, trying to twist your name calling into something else. No one is fooled.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup:
> 
> Forgive them anyway
> 
> ...


beauitful thank you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.

I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup:
> 
> Forgive them anyway
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this message.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


lovely Janie and someone will love it more then you may know. 
Lots of work and lots of love went into it.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup:
> 
> Forgive them anyway
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


That's very kind of you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup:
> 
> Forgive them anyway
> 
> ...


Thank You.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not call you names. I just identify you as a bully. You sure do twist the facts.


Oh I get it. You just identify us as bullies, you don't call names. Well bless your heart. I am now identifying you as a liar, and a bully and I could go on and on and on, but I won't waste my time on you anymore.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> I thought those were Reaganphones. Isn't that were it started? I need to check it again. It did not start with Obama that is for sure.


The free phones started under Bush, but originated under Reagan. People just love calling it an Obamaphone, cause it is free and the more they can link free stuff to Obama, the better they feel. Doesn't matter if it the truth or not. It's another one of those lies the republicans love to repeat and repeat in hopes that it is believed. Just more proof that they are liars.

The idea of providing low-income individuals with subsidized phone service was originated in the Reagan administration following the break-up of AT&T in 1984. (It was expanded and formalized by the Telecommunications Act of 1996.) The program is paid for by telecommunications companies through an independent non-profit, NOT THROUGH TAX REVENUE.

http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/09/27/924011/the-truth-about-the-obama-phone/


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very true, NJG.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I just had to share these words of wisdom with this particular forum. I think it wouldn't hurt if we all tried to follow it... :thumbup:
> 
> Forgive them anyway
> 
> ...


What an excellent prescription for a peace-filled life. If more people followed her advice there would be less hate in the world. Or would there be? She truly was a living saint.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


A work of love is always beautiful!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


I even like the back Janie. Who is getting this sweet quilt?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


Nice job Janeway! You have a good heart.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the reminder.



NJG said:


> The free phones started under Bush, but originated under Reagan. People just love calling it an Obamaphone, cause it is free and the more they can link free stuff to Obama, the better they feel. Doesn't matter if it the truth or not. It's another one of those lies the republicans love to repeat and repeat in hopes that it is believed. Just more proof that they are liars.
> 
> The idea of providing low-income individuals with subsidized phone service was originated in the Reagan administration following the break-up of AT&T in 1984. (It was expanded and formalized by the Telecommunications Act of 1996.) The program is paid for by telecommunications companies through an independent non-profit, NOT THROUGH TAX REVENUE.
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/09/27/924011/the-truth-about-the-obama-phone/


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She was a saint. None of those around here, unfortunately.



Jokim said:


> What an excellent prescription for a peace-filled life. If more people followed her advice there would be less hate in the world. Or would there be? She truly was a living saint.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I wonder how many white folk were pictured in their tidy little missives about free Obamaphones or whatever title the right wing gave those life saving devices that the gov't has been providing for as long as there have been affordable cell phones.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_04/b4212019667595.htm


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janey had obviously found rude pictures. It's much easier then forming a coherent thought and putting it into clear English. :hunf:

If you're wondering why your computer has slowed down, it's the ads and Janey's multiple pictures. Good go.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're mistaken Janey. It's someone else's. Keep guessing if it amuses you.



Janeway said:


> Oh, I found your picture!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You have to ask yourself, 'from what?' and you'll have your answer.



Janeway said:


> I live in a surb. of a large metropolitan city, but you live on an island so who is isolated?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, I took a rest sort of & quilted this quilt for charity. Here is the front & back. It isn't the prettiest (fabric was donated so did best I could with colors) quilt I've ever made, but it will be warm.
> 
> I pieced it last week. There are 100 pieces in all!


That is a very pretty quilt and would look lovely on a child's bed, the colours are lovely. I can see a little girl's room with dolls on the bed and fairy slippers next to the bed. You have been busy, good work.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thoughts exactly. That's why I've never believed her claims about her heritage.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Since you do indeed post racist pictures and cartoons, I can only conclude you are not a Native American. If you were you would understand what racism is and how it harms the people it's practiced against. If I was a Native American I would be proud to look like the modern elderly man you pictured. How shameful of you to pretend to be part of a noble people.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

1937



knitpresentgifts said:


> fourteen


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I even like the back Janie. Who is getting this sweet quilt?


I don't know who will get this quilt as when it is given to charity, it might stay local or because this is a metro city, it could go 75 miles away.

It gives me pleasure to make quilts to keep a baby warm who might not have one to cover up with. The fabric is donated to the "y" so sometimes the quilts just do their own "thing" with the colors.

The pattern said to make the 2 "X's" out of different colors, but there was not enough to make them so they became the same color so at the intersection of the 2 same colors, I added the heart to break the same colors.

Glad you like it. There are frogs on the front & the back materials is Also frogs so that matched!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Jokim said:


> A work of love is always beautiful!


Thank you as it gave me pleasure to sew it together.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> That's very kind of you.


Thank you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nice job Janeway! You have a good heart.


Thank you as your works of fabric are masterpieces. My work is not perfect but maybe some baby will love it while it keeps them warm.


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## blanchebianca (May 12, 2013)

While I don't believe in the conventional idea of god and even less in organized religion, your posting refreshed my belief in man's unity of spirit. It was like the first drop of rain that comes after a drought. I'd pretty much stopped reading this thread; it had become too painfully nasty. So, thanks very much for posting this.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Looks like Saudi Arabia is very disillusioned with the USA and Obama and is splitting from us. Started two years ago. Obama administration again.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Saudi Arabia is very disillusioned with the USA and Obama and is splitting from us. Started two years ago. Obama administration again.


I call it a good start, no matter how it happened. Saudi Arabia is the most loathsome regime and no place to be female, and I've always been embarrassed that our government has anything to do with them.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I call it a good start, no matter how it happened. Saudi Arabia is the most loathsome regime and no place to be female, and I've always been embarrassed that our government has anything to do with them.


Don't you think we need allies in the Middle East? Isn't it worth keeping them on our side instead of making an enemy?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I call it a good start, no matter how it happened. Saudi Arabia is the most loathsome regime and no place to be female, and I've always been embarrassed that our government has anything to do with them.


I agree, Aw--can't abide them, the way they treat women, or the fact that their people hijacked airplanes and rammed them into the World Trade Center. It's one of the most bizarre "friendships" the world has ever seen.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Saudi Arabia is very disillusioned with the USA and Obama and is splitting from us. Started two years ago. Obama administration again.


Didn't Obama bow to the Crown Prince of the Saudis way back, shortly after he became president? I know that upset many.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Aw--can't abide them, the way they treat women, or the fact that their people hijacked airplanes and rammed them into the World Trade Center. It's one of the most bizarre "friendships" the world has ever seen.


Yes, it is odd that women's human rights don't count.

I've always thought it more than strange that nearly all of those murderers came from there and Iraq and Afghanistan ended up invaded.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Aw--can't abide them, the way they treat women, or the fact that their people hijacked airplanes and rammed them into the World Trade Center. It's one of the most bizarre "friendships" the world has ever seen.


A necessity. Good terms would be enough instead of the word "friend". Why destroy good terms, especially if they are that bad.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Didn't Obama bow to the Crown Prince of the Saudis way back, shortly after he became president? I know that upset many.


I don't know that one. But, he has totally alienated them now.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I found this quote from Patrick Henry and just wanted to share.
> 
> _The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government._


Thank you for the reminder. The Constitution with the Bill of Rights guarantee our freedoms. The framers of the Constitution wrote this document to restrain government. They experienced oppression under the British crown and wanted to make sure that the country they were founding did not have an oppressive form of gov't. They also added the Bill of Rights which specifically sets out individual freedoms and sets further limits on government. The Constitution/Bill of Rights is not difficult reading. Everyone should read it and an ample amount of school instruction should be devoted to it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for the reminder. The Constitution with the Bill of Rights guarantee our freedoms. The framers of the Constitution wrote this document to restrain government. They experienced oppression under the British crown and wanted to make sure that the country they were founding did not have an oppressive form of gov't. They also added the Bill of Rights which specifically sets out individual freedoms and sets further limits on government. The Constitution/Bill of Rights is not difficult reading. Everyone should read it and an ample amount of school instruction should be devoted to it.


Right! Our country is going in the opposite direction of the above. Not good.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> A necessity. Good terms would be enough instead of the word "friend". Why destroy good terms, especially if they are that bad.


I believe the expression, "Politics make strange bedfellows", fits this situation. It is expedient for them to be our friend, (location of military bases) and for us to be their friend, (protection from the more militant radical islamists) merely by our presence on their soil. Yes, we do need allies in that part of the world. Israel is the only solid friend we have there.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I call it a good start, no matter how it happened. Saudi Arabia is the most loathsome regime and no place to be female, and I've always been embarrassed that our government has anything to do with them.


The ignorant think that any ally is a good ally. Americans (probably some British) scream and holler about losing rights and then want to be aligned with a royal family that is totally repressive, allows slave trade, and ignores women's rights.

http://www.equaltimes.org/in-depth/saudi-blogger-blows-cover-on-royal-corruption

Remember when these same folks who are clamoring now for a closer relationship were all up in arms over this?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/obama-bow-to-saudis-cnn-r_n_185281.html

Of course, the true reason for the rift is not President Obama, it is President Obama's refusal to get us involved in a Syrian Civil War where, once again, there will be no winners. It is all about the balance of power between the Saudi Royal House and Iran.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/22/us-saudi-usa-idUSBRE99L0K120131022


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I believe the expression, "Politics make strange bedfellows", fits this situation.


Very true, Jokim--and when the bed is soaked in oil it makes it that much easier for the happy couple to slide beneath the sheets. I know we need allies in the Middle East, but not them--bleah! There has to be someone else.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Right! Our country is going in the opposite direction of the above. Not good.


Lukelucy
your kind have been saying the same stuff forever. You are repeating the ugliness of the 60s right now. My Country will do fine if you folks grow up as we have. Poor luckless Lucy.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Very true, Jokim--and when the bed is soaked in oil it makes it that much easier for the happy couple to slide beneath the sheets. I know we need allies in the Middle East, but not them--bleah! There has to be someone else.


susanmos2000
if the World would follow the teachings of the smartest person on Earth, Malalah, all of us would eventually get along. What a brilliant young person with such an advanced intellect.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I found this quote from Patrick Henry and just wanted to share.
> 
> _The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government._


Thank you for the quote from Payne. We should all keep what he said in mind.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janeway said:


> I don't know who will get this quilt as when it is given to charity, it might stay local or because this is a metro city, it could go 75 miles away.
> 
> It gives me pleasure to make quilts to keep a baby warm who might not have one to cover up with. The fabric is donated to the "y" so sometimes the quilts just do their own "thing" with the colors.
> 
> ...


It's a lovely quilt Janie. To make something out of fabric that was not what you would pick yourself and make it that pretty, takes talent. Whomever gets the guilt is one lucky person.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Saudi Arabia is very disillusioned with the USA and Obama and is splitting from us. Started two years ago. Obama administration again.


Well they had Bush in their pocket and available to kiss their butt whenever they wanted, so I don't hold much stock in your statement. They have plenty of oil money so let them fend for themselves.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thank you for the quote from Payne. We should all keep what he said in mind.


You mean Thomas Paine? I wondered about that quote--I know Patrick Henry didn't say that as he was 100% opposed to anything but a loose confederacy of states and refused an invitation to the Constitutional Convention.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You mean Thomas Paine? I wondered about that quote--I know Patrick Henry didn't say that as he was 100% opposed to anything but a loose confederacy of states and refused an invitation to the Constitutional Convention.


"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.

― Patrick Henry

It would be easier to relate it to the proper person if the full quote were given.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
> 
> ― Patrick Henry
> 
> It would be easier to relate it to the proper person if the full quote were given.


Hmmm....the trouble there is that no one can come up with a context, location, and date on which he supposedly said it. It's definitely one of the more elusive quotes.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmmm....the trouble there is that no one can come up with a context, location, and date on which he supposedly said it. It's definitely one of the more elusive quotes.


Patrick Henry (29 May 1736  6 June 1799) was a prominent figure in the American Revolution, known and remembered primarily for his stirring oratory.
Misattributed[edit]
	The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
	As quoted in The Best Liberal Quotes Ever : Why the Left is Right (2004) by William P. Martin. Though widely attributed to Henry, this statement has not been sourced to any document before the 1990s and appears to be at odds with his beliefs as a strong opponent of the adoption of the US Constitution.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Patrick_Henry


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/361839.Patrick_Henry
> 
> Here is a website for quotes of Patrick Henry, I used a different one this morning that I am unable to find now.


I know it's attributed to him on many different sites and he may well have said it--but again, no one's come up with a place or date. Very peculiar.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Misquoting Patrick Henry: The Internet and Bogus Sayings of the Founders by Thomas S. Kidd - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf
http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/
Another widely cited Henry quotation is: The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. This is a more complex misquotation, because it sounds like something Henry might have said  maybe during the 1790s, after he opposed the Constitutions adoption, when he was hoping to restrict the new governments powers? The problem is that this quotation seems to have been entirely fabricated, and quite recently at that. The earliest reference I have found to this quotation is in two books published in 2003. But why create a bogus quotation when Henry actually said similar things about the need to restrain government? In any case, this is also frequently cited on social media sites and in political books. On Facebook the quotation has its own common interest page - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf

Case in point, the following "quote" for Patrick Henry, which is so widespread that it gets over 800,000 Google hits: "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."

Sounds great, patriotic and stirring and making a political point that has considerable modern-day relevance. But Patrick Henry never said it. He never wrote it. It is fake.

How can I be so sure? Google books is often a good source for getting to the facts. Here is the search. We see that the Henry quote appears in ten books from the last 15 years, including the Congressional Record (apparently by Representative Walter B. Jones of North Carolina), The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Founding Fathers, and 
Chuck Norris' magisterial Black Belt Patriotism.

Yet the alleged quote appears not at all in any earlier works--not in any of the hundreds of books of Henry's writings, books about the constitutional debates, or biographies of Henry that are in the Google Books database. In fact it first pops up in print in 1994 (dawn of the internet era!) in a political book. If Henry really said something so quotable in his lifetime it is inconceivable that no one thought to quote it until 1994. The quote is a fake.
http://northwesthistory.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/patrick-henry-said-what-or-how-to-fact.html


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Patrick Henry (29 May 1736  6 June 1799) was a prominent figure in the American Revolution, known and remembered primarily for his stirring oratory.
> Misattributed[edit]
> 	The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
> 	As quoted in The Best Liberal Quotes Ever : Why the Left is Right (2004) by William P. Martin. Though widely attributed to Henry, this statement has not been sourced to any document before the 1990s and appears to be at odds with his beliefs as a strong opponent of the adoption of the US Constitution.
> ...


Thanks, Evie. Yes, Henry was so against any form of a centralized government that declined an invitation to attend the Constitutional Convention of 1787. It seems doubtful that he said what's so commonly attributed to him--but then, who did say it? No one seems to know.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"

Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!

So, today, 70-80% of those signing up for Obamacare are enrollees in Medicaid = they don't pay for their insurance - the US citizen taxpayers do! Every single taxpayer will pay more in taxes in order to partially fund Obamacare regardless of income or lack thereof. Way to go Obama = that's the way to help those down and without work and health insurance.

So Lefties, who do you blame for taking more and more from your discretionary income - Sebelius or Obama? Obama doesn't have a clue when anything happens, so don't look to him to know where to place the blame. 

Obama doesn't hold anyone responsible and so far this Obama Admin isn't qualified to handle the management of a website. How the heck do you anticipate they'll handle your health care? 

I don't know of a single private business concern that ever had such a disastrous rollout of a website. 

Pretty lousy thing to become your legacy, but Obama fought for this, broke the law to put it in place, and he owns this one 100%. He must be sooooo proud. :-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


No sense trying to reason with you, KPG. Why bother?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

OKay, One down = susanmos2000 doesn't have a clue and cannot explain the disaster called Obamacare and cannot justify her support.

Anyone else? :-D :?:


Do they hate Obama or his policy?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


KPG
we like our Insurance and are keeping it with the same Premium and extended coverage. RX Insurance is the same carrier with less Premium for the same coverage. No change of Doctors or Hospital either. Jackpot.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Usually I want statements to come along with atributions about the sources. If this one attributed to Payne was made by someone else, and nobody manages to hunt the 
"real" author down, I still think it's a great statement. I'd even forget immediately and go in liking it if karverr or KPG made it up. I guess I got it bad...ops:quote=susanmos2000]I know it's attributed to him on many different sites and he may well have said it--but again, no one's come up with a place or date. Very peculiar.[/quote]


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Two down - Huckleberry cannot explain who is to blame and refused to support Obama and his Admin too.

Oh, dear, this is becoming a problem ... No one is capable of answering two simple questions or voicing their support yet today.

I think they hate the man AND his policies.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No sense trying to reason with you, KPG. Why bother?


You're correct - far more important to discuss a quote of a man who lived in the 1700's.

It's a great way to avoid the news of today!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Evie. Yes, Henry was so against any form of a centralized government that declined an invitation to attend the Constitutional Convention of 1787. It seems doubtful that he said what's so commonly attributed to him--but then, who did say it? No one seems to know.


Even though I am a Federalist, I like the fake statement attributed to Patrick Henry. Right now the system of checks and balances seems to have evaporated when it comes to the relationship between the Administration and Congress. I don't think most of my Congressional representatives are actually representing me and a lot of other people like me. This leaves me feeling that I am being manipulated by the Congress.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Usually I want statements to come along with atributions about the sources. If this one attributed to Payne was made by someone else, and nobody manages to hunt the
> "real" author down, I still think it's a great statement. I'd even forget immediately and go in liking it if karverr or KPG made it up. I guess I got it bad...ops:quote=susanmos2000]I know it's attributed to him on many different sites and he may well have said it--but again, no one's come up with a place or date. Very peculiar.


[/quote]

I agree, Maid--the quote, whether made by Henry or someone else, _is_ relevant, and that's what's sparked my curiosity. Whoever said it (or wrote it) deserves full credit in my book.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You mean Thomas Paine? I wondered about that quote--I know Patrick Henry didn't say that as he was 100% opposed to anything but a loose confederacy of states and refused an invitation to the Constitutional Convention.


I see it as fitting that scenario as that might be the only reason for a constitution... to prevent the federal government from becoming too all powerful, like using drones to kill US citizens (or anyone for that matter), and tapping phones all over the darned world.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Joey, so far the two lefties who responded to me refused to inform me who they hold responsible for the disastrous rollout of the Obamacare website.

Neither liberal wants _their_ insurance to change, but I guess they are both ready and willing to pay for 30 million more people to get insurance on their dimes.

How cool is that?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Can't we just say it is a good quote and leave it at that.
> 
> It is a good reminder of the purpose of the constitution, and how far we have strayed from it.


I know, I know and can stop this debate; its a quote from the Old Testament.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Misquoting Patrick Henry: The Internet and Bogus Sayings of the Founders by Thomas S. Kidd - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf
> http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/
> Another widely cited Henry quotation is: The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. This is a more complex misquotation, because it sounds like something Henry might have said  maybe during the 1790s, after he opposed the Constitutions adoption, when he was hoping to restrict the new governments powers? The problem is that this quotation seems to have been entirely fabricated, and quite recently at that. The earliest reference I have found to this quotation is in two books published in 2003. But why create a bogus quotation when Henry actually said similar things about the need to restrain government? In any case, this is also frequently cited on social media sites and in political books. On Facebook the quotation has its own common interest page - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf
> 
> ...


Join me in a search, folks, for any new Henry material surfacing in the '90s?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Can't we just say it is a good quote and leave it at that.
> 
> It is a good reminder of the purpose of the constitution, and how far we have strayed from it.


The trouble I have with attributing it to Henry is that he was anti-Constitution, at least initially. He believed a looser structure like the Articles of Confederation was better and, if we could trot him out now for some advice, no doubt he'd tell us to junk the whole thing and start over. That doesn't sit well with me--a constitution like ours, despite its flaws, still seems the best way to go.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Join me in a search, folks, for any new Henry material surfacing in the '90s?


I'm with you, Jelun--look like we have another mystery on our hands (to quote Freddy, of course  )


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

Too many pages to read, but I quickly popped in a sample family into the subsidy program--one with two kids and making $60,000 a year. Instead of paying over $800 a month, you would pay just about $400 a month with the subsidy paying the rest. This was for North Dakota. I just picked one at random. I don't know offhand what they charge compared to other states....


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Found this on The Blog (Thomas S Kidd):

Another widely cited "Henry" quotation is: "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." This is a more complex misquotation, because it sounds like something Henry might have said -- maybe during the 1790s, after he opposed the Constitution's adoption, when he was hoping to restrict the new government's powers? The problem is that this quotation seems to have been entirely fabricated, and quite recently at that. The earliest reference I have found to this quotation is in two books published in 2003. But why create a bogus quotation when Henry actually said similar things about the need to restrain government? In any case, this is also frequently cited on social media sites and in political books. On Facebook the quotation has its own "common interest" page.

Finally, and perhaps most notoriously, is the spurious Henry quotation that "it cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!" Again, this is a perplexing case because Henry certainly was a devout Christian, but the quotation itself is of relatively recent origin. The quotation apparently came from a magazine commentary on Henry's faith in 1956, which later writers took as a quotation from Henry himself. Popular Christian historian David Barton once regularly used this statement in his writings and speeches, but he came under such fierce criticism that he retracted it (and others) as an "unconfirmed" source. The quotation still appears regularly in Facebook and Twitter posts, and, remarkably, in presidential aspirant Newt Gingrich's 2011 book A Nation Like No Other (p. 76). And this from the only candidate with a history Ph.D.!


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing. 
2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
4) The economy was working much better when the higher income people paid more taxes. So many corporations are sending their money off to the islands to avoid billions in taxes. Why not complain about that, if you want to complain about where the money is coming/going?

I doubt any small or even large business has had hundreds of thousands of hits on their website the first few days of start up and not gone down. This is a huge undertaking and if only people would be patient and not try to attack any problem with so much venom, it might lessen the blood pressure. Yes, it's an issue, but I'm sure it will be fixed.

I see some sites where people actually spout that President Obama has set up this health care plan to purposely bring down the US economy--like he's a treasonous character! What a crock! I truly think he has the welfare of the US in his heart. I can only imagine what pressures he has gone through to proceed under such duress. And he IS concerned that the process is not going as well as he had hoped. It was Not against the law to create, discuss extensively, and vote on an affordable care act. He must actually be very sad that so many Americans don't have a bit of faith in the system and have a more positive attitude. We can fix the glitches and problems as they arise.

I've talked to several doctors, and while they see some extra paperwork, etc. they have ALL said that it will be a good thing for the country as a whole....
Don't Worry, Be Happy!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks, olsonlinda1, I have no doubt that some who see this will consider you are RINO. To me, you are the Republican we used to know who could work with a Dem and make things happen. I can't wait until that time returns for the good of our nation.



olsonlinda1 said:


> Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
> 1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing.
> 2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
> 3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
> ...


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks, olsonlinda1, I have no doubt that some who see this will consider you are RINO. To me, you are the Republican we used to know who could work with a Dem and make things happen. I can't wait until that time returns for the good of our nation.


I haven't read all 130+ pages of this topic, but did notice you had some very good comments as well.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And deciding what kind of health insurance everyone HAS to HAVE.


What kind, honestly?
Nobody has said a word about the type of health insurance I am carrying, and no, I do not have Medicare. Yet.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
> 1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing.
> 2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
> 3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
> ...


That's "three" that refuse or have no idea who is responsible for the failed Obamacare policy and website. Also, the third responder who cannot tell me what is expected for actual insurance. You took plenty of time to blame others but not a single word to answer my two simple questions.

BTW: Most of your statements are provably false, but I didn't refute them as they have nothing to do with the two questions I sought an answer.

No wonder the Liberal Obamacare policy is a failure before it even began, no one has a clue what it is, how to procure it or manage it.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

DEAR KPG
"Failure" is in the eye of the beholder. Let's consider it a work-in-progress. I DID say that President Obama does consider it a problem and he's never shirked from taking responsibility. 
I have NO idea what your question is about actual insurance? So I can't answer it. I'm not trying to avoid answering.... Have you tried getting on the site to see what it's like? Have you checked into subsidies? Do you have your own insurance? Some policies will be discontinued because they don't cover everything that was considered necessary for the majority of the populace, hence they have to be reworked. 
I'll be glad to research some things for you if you actually want some answers and are not just venting.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


The nightly news just said there are many more problems with Obamacare besides the website. Major carriers did not go with it in many states because they did not trust the enrollment. Looks like it is more trouble than the libs think!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OKay, One down = susanmos2000 doesn't have a clue and cannot explain the disaster called Obamacare and cannot justify her support.
> 
> Anyone else? :-D :?:
> 
> Do they hate Obama or his policy?


KPG, you are right on the mark on all your posts. Thank you.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Joey, so far the two lefties who responded to me refused to inform me who they hold responsible for the disastrous rollout of the Obamacare website.
> 
> Neither liberal wants _their_ insurance to change, but I guess they are both ready and willing to pay for 30 million more people to get insurance on their dimes.
> 
> How cool is that?


Oh, I forgot. The news tonight said that people are going to be paying far more for their ACA than they did before. How is that going to go down? Terrible. ACA needs to go.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Too many pages to read, but I quickly popped in a sample family into the subsidy program--one with two kids and making $60,000 a year. Instead of paying over $800 a month, you would pay just about $400 a month with the subsidy paying the rest. This was for North Dakota. I just picked one at random. I don't know offhand what they charge compared to other states....


Also, what coverage would you have? Less than what you had before?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It has to be qualifying. And millions who are happy with their health insurance, are losing it to get something more expensive with more unneeded coverage, with higher deductibles and copays.


Oh, it is wonderful health insurance. It is one of the reasons I chose it, it was one of the reasons I chose my employer. 
The health insurance that is being cancelled is deficient for the most part if we are hearing about it. 
Do you honestly think it is not a great benefit for people to be able to go have a mammogram done? to have their birth control paid for? to actually go and have lab work done? Why do you suppose it is that you read stories about huge numbers of people not being aware that they are diabetic? or have thyroid issues? or whatever other chronic problems people are suffering from? 
What do you suppose some woman in CA (mentioned in the LA TIMES article) is getting for $98./mo? That is not a shared premium with an employer that is THE premium. 
LOL, get real. I paid $160. a month in the '80s for a lousy policy as an independent buyer. 
And I have news for her, if all she can afford it $98. a month for a health insurance plan. She is NOT middle class. I wonder if that POS policy she had was going to pay for that baby she's having or if we were going to pay for it.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Also, what coverage would you have? Less than what you had before?


Obviously better coverage, as the conservatives say that you get more coverage than you even knew you wanted!!!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Obviously better coverage, as the conservatives say that you get more coverage than you even knew you wanted!!!!


Linda?
You can never satisfy these folks. The questions they ask are for information nobody can possibly have unless it is so personal anybody would be hesitant to share it online. 
Keep at it if you wish, it is hopeless.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And a 58 year old single man needs maternity coverage and birth control.


He might. 
http://www.theledger.com/article/20100619/news/6195054

You can play twist and turn, pop some stupid question, spin the answer, whatever you want. The fact is that the ACA is legal, it is constitutional. 
If you don't like it, don't buy into it. 
In the mean time if you want to get all anxiety ridden about it, that is your problem. They have meds for that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> He might.
> http://www.theledger.com/article/20100619/news/6195054


True, Jelun--one never knows.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And a 58 year old single man needs maternity coverage and birth control.


I guess you can liken it to paying taxes to fund public schools when you don't have any children in school.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
> 1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing.
> 2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
> 3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

The White House just announced 6 week extension. It's until March 31,2014.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> That one is married, and a child. Therefore a family plan not single coverage.
> 
> It would be nice if an individual DID NOT gave to purchase insurance they did not want. Or pay a penalty for nothing.


It would be nice if when we are unmarried and have sex nobody gets pregnant necessitating procurement of a policy or worse yet making us pay for the birth because the single guy who still hasn't learned to keep it in his pants by the time he is sixty doesn't provide properly for the birth of his progeny. 
You can be so literal that is worthless to try to communicate or you can try to have a normal conversation, Joey. 
If you want to frustrate everyone who is trying to have a conversation then they will go away, leaving you literal and lonely. 
People get coverage to have coverage IN CASE something goes wrong not because they expect it to go wrong. 
I increase the liability on my house insurance because I installed a pool which sadly increases the possibility that some accident will happen. This is not a probability it is a possiblility. 
The benefit to having preventive health care is so that people can avoid getting chronic conditions. 
That 58 yo single man might want to have a vasectomy. Should he have that paid for because he is being responsible? Should he be forced to pay for it himself because the health care industry wouldn't provide it? 
You don't get to choose. You don't have to approve. It is what it is.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's a lovely quilt Janie. To make something out of fabric that was not what you would pick yourself and make it that pretty, takes talent. Whomever gets the guilt is one lucky person.


Thank you as I said the colors came together as the amount of fabric that was in the scrap! Glad you think it is pretty as guess the fabrics just did their thing.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


Yes, yes, true, true wonderful statements!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why would health insurance coverage for a *single* man ever cover the mother of or his child. The baby is not in *his* body. Health insurance only covers the person named on the policy.
> 
> If he wanted to cover the child he would need a * family* policy. A vasectomy is minor surgery and would be covered. if the policy included surgery. Just like having a woman's tubes tied would be minor surgery and not birth control.


I think it is called marriage, but, what do I know. And why shouldn't he be responsible, it is his child. Good night.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why would health insurance coverage for a *single* man ever cover the mother of or his child. The baby is not in *his* body. Health insurance only covers the person named on the policy.
> 
> If he wanted to cover the child he would need a * family* policy. A vasectomy is minor surgery and would be covered. if the policy included surgery. Just like having a woman's tubes tied would be minor surgery and not birth control.


You don't get to make up the rules as you go along, Joey. 
A vasectomy is reproductive health. I am sorry you don't see it that way. It just is. 
The baby is not in MY body either, why should I pay for it because he doesn't want to protect himself with a comprehensive policy. Now really. Good night.

http://health.costhelper.com/vasectomy.html


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As long as you continue to live in whatever conditions you do, you will remain as hysterical, angry and fearful as you show with this post.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess who said, "If you like your insurance you can keep it?" "If you like your doctor you can keep him?"
> 
> Barack Hussein Obama - several times in the past three years too!
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Two down - Huckleberry cannot explain who is to blame and refused to support Obama and his Admin too.
> 
> Oh, dear, this is becoming a problem ... No one is capable of answering two simple questions or voicing their support yet today.
> 
> I think they hate the man AND his policies.


I support our President and his policies. Congress is to blame for the current relationship between the Administrative and Legislative branches of our government. Congress is dicing with our lives. The Republican Party is so far gone as to allow the voices of a small percentage of their splintered party to rule the entire GOP. Like they use to say during the Vietnam war, "my country, love it or leave it." Since you obviously don't love our country, I suggest you leave it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Maid--the quote, whether made by Henry or someone else, _is_ relevant, and that's what's sparked my curiosity. Whoever said it (or wrote it) deserves full credit in my book.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks, olsonlinda1, I have no doubt that some who see this will consider you are RINO. To me, you are the Republican we used to know who could work with a Dem and make things happen. I can't wait until that time returns for the good of our nation.


Olsonlinda]Me, too. I agree with jelun2 and found your remarks refeshing and encouraging. We see all too may ultra-conservatives here. Thanks!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> The nightly news just said there are many more problems with Obamacare besides the website. Major carriers did not go with it in many states because they did not trust the enrollment. Looks like it is more trouble than the libs think!


And, of course, you haven't bothered to say whose nightly news you listened to or watched.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> He might.
> http://www.theledger.com/article/20100619/news/6195054
> 
> You can play twist and turn, pop some stupid question, spin the answer, whatever you want. The fact is that the ACA is legal, it is constitutional.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for your post, jelun2.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Say what? A baby isn't a man's body? A baby is as much the body ofits father as its mother. You DO know where babies come from, don't you? While a woman has the burden of carrying a child in her body and going through the birth process, a baby is created by and is the responsibility of 2 people. IOf a man doesn't step up and take on his part of the responsiblity for a child, he isn't a man.


joeysomma said:


> Why would health insurance coverage for a *single* man ever cover the mother of or his child. The baby is not in *his* body. Health insurance only covers the person named on the policy.
> 
> If he wanted to cover the child he would need a * family* policy. A vasectomy is minor surgery and would be covered. if the policy included surgery. Just like having a woman's tubes tied would be minor surgery and not birth control.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know, I know and can stop this debate; its a quote from the Old Testament.


Thanks for the chuckle, KPG.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as I said the colors came together as the amount of fabric that was in the scrap! Glad you think it is pretty as guess the fabrics just did their thing.


Jane, I wanted to mention before that some of the most beautiful things are made from remnants. One of the things that comes to mind is the Jewish remnant who returned from Babylonian Captivity back to Judea and began building up the nation. Jesus came (descended) from that 'remnant'.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great friends there. They participated in 9/11. They abuse women. They got us into Gulf Wars, costing us big money. We're producing more oil ourselves now. I think Saudi Arabia is friends we can do without. IMHO



Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Saudi Arabia is very disillusioned with the USA and Obama and is splitting from us. Started two years ago. Obama administration again.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we need to understand the situation before barging in assuming we know how to make friends in the Middle East. They consider our 'help' as obstructionism. We've been making it worse instead of better.



Lukelucy said:


> Don't you think we need allies in the Middle East? Isn't it worth keeping them on our side instead of making an enemy?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That some seem to believe is rooted in the Bush family 'friendship.'



susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Aw--can't abide them, the way they treat women, or the fact that their people hijacked airplanes and rammed them into the World Trade Center. It's one of the most bizarre "friendships" the world has ever seen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Yes, it is odd that women's human rights don't count.
> 
> I've always thought it more than strange that nearly all of those murderers came from there and Iraq and Afghanistan ended up invaded.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Me too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the information and sources. Much to think about.



jelun2 said:


> The ignorant think that any ally is a good ally. Americans (probably some British) scream and holler about losing rights and then want to be aligned with a royal family that is totally repressive, allows slave trade, and ignores women's rights.
> 
> http://www.equaltimes.org/in-depth/saudi-blogger-blows-cover-on-royal-corruption
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think anyone could have foreseen the mess we're in now. If this had happened in 1780, I think we would have had another revolution (And Constitution) on our hands.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Thank you for the quote from Payne. We should all keep what he said in mind.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the longer quote. More instructive.



jelun2 said:


> "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
> 
> ― Patrick Henry
> 
> It would be easier to relate it to the proper person if the full quote were given.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting. Arte Johnson



EveMCooke said:


> Patrick Henry (29 May 1736  6 June 1799) was a prominent figure in the American Revolution, known and remembered primarily for his stirring oratory.
> Misattributed[edit]
> 	The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.
> 	As quoted in The Best Liberal Quotes Ever : Why the Left is Right (2004) by William P. Martin. Though widely attributed to Henry, this statement has not been sourced to any document before the 1990s and appears to be at odds with his beliefs as a strong opponent of the adoption of the US Constitution.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you so much Eve. I think you've gotten to the bottom of it.



EveMCooke said:


> Misquoting Patrick Henry: The Internet and Bogus Sayings of the Founders by Thomas S. Kidd - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf
> http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/
> Another widely cited Henry quotation is: The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government  lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. This is a more complex misquotation, because it sounds like something Henry might have said  maybe during the 1790s, after he opposed the Constitutions adoption, when he was hoping to restrict the new governments powers? The problem is that this quotation seems to have been entirely fabricated, and quite recently at that. The earliest reference I have found to this quotation is in two books published in 2003. But why create a bogus quotation when Henry actually said similar things about the need to restrain government? In any case, this is also frequently cited on social media sites and in political books. On Facebook the quotation has its own common interest page - See more at: http://www.baylorisr.org/2012/02/misquoting-patrick-henry-the-internet-and-bogus-sayings-of-the-founders-by-thomas-s-kidd/#sthash.wlBfobdO.dpuf
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It seems to me that it is the insurance companies who deserve more of the 'Obamacare' vitriol. It is they who are cancelling people's policies......because people were paying for substandard policies....and the insurance companies are totally responsible for the new increase in prices.....and they always look out for #1....and that #1 is NOT the policyholders. But right wingers would rather blame the gummint.

And many, many of the ideas in ACA are seen in Romneycare in MA for instance. Oh, for those who have managed to forget, Mitt Romney is a Republican.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe that they hate President Obama first and foremost. Did not the GOP proclaim at the beginning of the administration that their goal was to prevent a second term at all costs? IMHO



knitpresentgifts said:


> OKay, One down = susanmos2000 doesn't have a clue and cannot explain the disaster called Obamacare and cannot justify her support.
> 
> Anyone else? :-D :?:
> 
> Do they hate Obama or his policy?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I agree they hate President Obama and therefor they hate Obamacare. All you have to do is listen to some of them talk about the roll out of Part D and then listen to that same person talk about Obamacare. Again, my favorite word for republicans. HYPOCRITE.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
> 1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing.
> 2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
> 3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo. Sounds like the Republicans I used to know.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Two down - Huckleberry cannot explain who is to blame and refused to support Obama and his Admin too.
> 
> Oh, dear, this is becoming a problem ... No one is capable of answering two simple questions or voicing their support yet today.
> 
> I think they hate the man AND his policies.


IIt's not that we are not capable, we just don't want to respond to you in particular.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> As long as you continue to live in whatever conditions you do, you will remain as hysterical, angry and fearful as you show with this post.


This is it!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> IIt's not that we are not capable, we just don't want to respond to you in particular.


Why not respond as when we don't respond to your untruths, you call us stupid!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Very interesting. Arte Johnson


LOL. Great attribution.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.

Hugs, Jane


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.
> 
> Hugs, Jane


Good luck.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> This is it!


The question is - do mirrors lie?

Well, here are several answers to consider.

Yes! That is why magicians use them all the time to trick people. You can't believe a mirror at all. Most people see what they expect to see in mirrors. If an anorexic girl thinks she is fat she will see herself fat in the mirror even if she is barely a skeleton. 
Hitler saw a master race in his mirror, even though he had NONE of the qualities he raved about! 
NEVER trust a mirror. As a magician I know that visual proof is the weakest proof of all.
.What about tinted mirrors...lets say when you look at yourself in a tinted mirror you can obviously see more imperfections from your face (scars appear deeper ect....) is that how you appear to people?
In the literal form, no, they don't lie. They don't even talk. But in the figurative form, yes they lie. Mirrors only show the person in physical appearance, but not their inside personality. A mirror that shows through the skin, and into the person, that is a real mirror. The only mirror that can tell you who you are, and what you are, may either be yourself or someone else. Here's a story: 
All men have two bags of fault. The bag in front of them, where they can easily see, are the faults of other men. The bag behind them, where they cannot easily see, are their own faults. Sometimes it's hard to see yourself for who you really are, and what you've done wrong, but having someone else look at you, they may be able to see what you really are. That is a mirror.
it is not the mirror that lies. all a mirror is, is a sheet of glass with metal behind it. what lies is our brain and how the image is sent to our brain
a mirror is a inanimate object reflecting light... it cannot lie or tell the truth and the truth is a matter of opinion in the first place
distort? yes. lie? no.
no, but most of our own minds don't let us reveal the truth

And this is to make it loud and clear that I am NOT slamming you because of your racial background. I am not slamming you at all, but merely pointing out that my opinion differs from yours. Second point, as an Australian I AM entitled to voice my opinion on this site. Just getting in ahead of you before you post your usual reply that I am the most hated and hateful person who is only slamming you because of your race, etc, etc, etc. This is not a racial slur, it is my opinion in resonse to your post.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> That raises an interesting question -- does your daughter currently have large gaps in her practice to include more patients? or does she plan to work many more hours? or will she spend less time with patients? Any way you look at it, a doctors effective pay rate will be decreasing while their costs increase due to higher administration costs.


Well she will have to make the time to see more patients she said. Longer days, maybe a Saturday here and there. She said there are many more patients for her to see because of increased numbers of insured people. She said if you practice medicine you have to go with the changes as most doctors go into the profession to help people while getting paid well for all of their years of study and responsibility. Seeing more patients is part of her job she said. AND she loves being a physician11


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why not respond as when we don't respond to your untruths, you call us stupid!


Another one of your loveable and sweet comments to fellow KPers. You have such a Christian way of expressing your feelings about other KPers. Perhaps this is how you wish others to see you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Introspection is the most reliable reflection of all. Don't you think?



EveMCooke said:


> The question is - do mirrors lie?
> 
> Well, here are several answers to consider.
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Well she will have to make the time to see more patients she said. Longer days, maybe a Saturday here and there. She said there are many more patients for her to see because of increased numbers of insured people. She said if you practice medicine you have to go with the changes as most doctors go into the profession to help people while getting paid well for all of their years of study and responsibility. Seeing more patients is part of her job she said. AND she loves being a physician11


It's funny, isn't it, the way people see doctors as some separate species? 
Just like the rest of us when conditions are altered docs need to go with it and adapt. The medical world is totally different than it was 25 years ago. The changes have been good, bad, ugly, and in between. 
Thank your daughter, please, for having such a great attitude.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Your words are great. Yes, all he did was increase the number of people who are dependent on the government. Thank you for this post!


More right wing talking points which are just LIES!!! The Obama administration has cut the deficit by the fastest rate in 60 years!!

BUT more people are on unemployment, food stamps, etc because the economy tanked BEFORE President Obama took office.

The economy was in free fall during the first 3 months of Obama taking office with corporations shedding jobs at the fastest rate since the 1930's. So the economic downfall was NOT his making. It was what was left over from the Bush administration.

People relying on unemployment and food stamps was NOT his making. He has been trying to undo the 8 year debacle that was Dubya & Cheney!!!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/25/barack-obama/obama-says-deficit-falling-fastest-rate-60-years/

....."Our ruling

Barack Obama said the deficit has fallen at the fastest rate in 60 years. While economists vary on how to best measure that decline, the president used an acceptable approach and his numbers are accurate. There are no statistical tricks in play.......

We rate the statement True."


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And very well spoken.....Thank you!


EveMCooke said:


> The question is - do mirrors lie?
> 
> Well, here are several answers to consider.
> 
> ...


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> West Coast Kitty,
> 
> Absolutely right. We will not have the care that we had before. Not enough time, too many patients.


Typical Republican ideas.....I got mine and to he!! with you!!!

Don't you have any compassion for those people and families who work for a living that can not afford health insurance??? Or are you all so selfish that all you care about is how seeing more patients will affect your care???

My daughter is the physician I speak of and said she will gladly make more time in her schedule for new patients. She went into medicine to help people and to make a positive difference in this world while getting paid well for all of her years of study.

Gee Wiz!!! All of you make me so upset as to how heartless & self-absorbed our great country is becoming!!!


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.
> 
> Hugs, Jane


Good luck with the testing. Sending prayers your way. God Bless.
Jokim


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Typical Republican ideas.....I got mine and to he!! with you!!!
> 
> Don't you have any compassion for those people and families who work for a living that can not afford health insurance??? Or are you all so selfish that all you care about is how seeing more patients will affect your care???
> 
> ...


So true, Cynthia. I've heard far too much talk from the conservatives about how they're simply waiting for the "Obamacare house of cards" to fall and how delighted they will be when that happens.
Gee--imagine wanting to dance in the streets if millions and millions of formerly uninsured Americans suddenly lose the coverage they just signed up for. What kind of person would take pleasure in such a thing? They are heartless and self-absorbed, as you noted--but on a pathological level.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Gee! You actually went to the trouble to try to hurt my feelings. You're wasting valuable time.:thumbdown:


Janeway said:


> This is it!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> And, of course, you haven't bothered to say whose nightly news you listened to or watched.


Pick one - there are three major ones. The are all saying the same thing.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> Great friends there. They participated in 9/11. They abuse women. They got us into Gulf Wars, costing us big money. We're producing more oil ourselves now. I think Saudi Arabia is friends we can do without. IMHO


So if they are not "friends" or at least on good terms, they will plot more against us. It would be worse. I find it irrational to think that you would not want good terms with a country. One does not have to be a "friend" to a country. Just get along. But, that figures the way people treat people on this site. Obama is having trouble working with other countries. Just another example of his ability to be a president.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think we need to understand the situation before barging in assuming we know how to make friends in the Middle East. They consider our 'help' as obstructionism. We've been making it worse instead of better.


I was not talking about giving "help". I am talking about good diplomatic relations. Talking.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.
> 
> Hugs, Jane


Jane,

We want a report. We care about you a lot.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


Too bad--but those humpty-dumpty policies pedaled by the insurance companies are no longer going to cut it. The government sets legal minimums for car insurance and has since it became mandatory, and this is no different.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Well she will have to make the time to see more patients she said. Longer days, maybe a Saturday here and there. She said there are many more patients for her to see because of increased numbers of insured people. She said if you practice medicine you have to go with the changes as most doctors go into the profession to help people while getting paid well for all of their years of study and responsibility. Seeing more patients is part of her job she said. AND she loves being a physician11


Will she be spending the same about of time with each patient as before? Will she be overtired and, therefore, not "up to par" some days? This all affects one's care. I am sure she is a doctor because of her love of helping people. How can she help people when she is overworked?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> So if they are not "friends" or at least on good terms, they will plot more against us. It would be worse. I find it irrational to think that you would not want good terms with a country. One does not have to be a "friend" to a country. Just get along. But, that figures the way people treat people on this site. Obama is having trouble working with other countries. Just another example of his ability to be a president.


"Just get along"? How well is Saudi Arabia getting along with us when, just a decade ago, their people hijacked airplanes and destroyed the World Trade Center? They hate us and have said so--many times. Is that your definition of getting along?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> They would not appreciate my answer. If this would be any company in the USA or the World. for that matter; and the stockholders approved a design for a website, and it was such a failure. The CEO would be looking for a new job, and also the underling he put in charge. I think they should be able understand who that would be without my spelling it out. I might add they should pay for the amount wasted on this failure out of their salaries.
> 
> I wonder why the company isn't fixing it without charge or paying for new people to do it. That is what happens in the real world. If I hire a contractor to put a new roof on my house, and it leaks when it rains. The contractor will need to fix it without additional charge or they will need to pay for someone else to do it.


The Libs and Dems don't have a clue what to do. They, too, were lied to by this Administration and haven't yet received their talking points to know where to turn or how to defend the debacle called Obamacare. No wonder, they cannot answer two simple questions; they are caught by surprise by the multiple failures.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Just get along"? How well is Saudi Arabia getting along with us when, just a decade ago, their people hijacked airplanes and destroyed the World Trade Center? They hate us and have said so--many times. Is that your definition of getting along?


I am all too aware of how the Middle East hates us. I heard it first hand overseas. That was about 35 years ago. Could not believe my ears. There is a basic, fundamental hate for the US. That does not mean that we need to make it worse.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You just won't admit he lied.


Lied, lied, lied.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


When is this nation going to start seriously reacting to this outrageous legislation. I hope people see the light and get going.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> DEAR KPG
> "Failure" is in the eye of the beholder. Let's consider it a work-in-progress. I DID say that President Obama does consider it a problem and he's never shirked from taking responsibility.
> I have NO idea what your question is about actual insurance? So I can't answer it. I'm not trying to avoid answering.... Have you tried getting on the site to see what it's like? Have you checked into subsidies? Do you have your own insurance? Some policies will be discontinued because they don't cover everything that was considered necessary for the majority of the populace, hence they have to be reworked.
> I'll be glad to research some things for you if you actually want some answers and are not just venting.


Dear olsonlinda;_ "In the eyes of the beholder?"_ EVERYONE including Obama, himself, the owner of this legislation, at least *admits* the failure of the corresponding website.

_"A work in progress?"_ You cannot be serious. Obama's Admin had THREE years to create a working *website* and has spent close to a billion dollars for a complete failure of a site. Now they'll spend millions MORE of your money to 'fix' it. Under that track record, you still expect a valuable and great health care system? The site is only to BUY insurance, not administer your health care. Good luck with getting good or decent care!

You still have not answered my two questions, not ONE Liberal has to date. The President is never anywhere a problem or scandal that exists, that he created, and he never knows any more about the problems than you do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> So if they are not "friends" or at least on good terms, they will plot more against us. It would be worse. I find it irrational to think that you would not want good terms with a country. One does not have to be a "friend" to a country. Just get along. But, that figures the way people treat people on this site. Obama is having trouble working with other countries. Just another example of his ability to be a president.


I can see now how you come to your friend/enemy decisions here. 
A nation can be on decent terms with another without bowing to their will. 
How many countries are there in Africa that you are not even aware exist that the US is on good terms with? Does it disturb you that we are not putting their interests over our national security interests or is it only the Saudis you are concerned with? and Why?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I can see now how you come to your friend/enemy decisions here.
> A nation can be on decent terms with another without bowing to their will.
> How many countries are there in Africa that you are not even aware exist that the US is on good terms with? Does it disturb you that we are not putting their interests over our national security interests or is it only the Saudis you are concerned with? and Why?


Again, on a news program (Sunday - Face the Nation - not sure) Saudi Arabia is in the forefront. The government is upset with Obama because he has not fostered good relations with the country. The program stated that we got along and worked together after 9-11. But now, Obama is not bothering to work in a positive manner or at all with Saudi Arabia. Diplomatic relations have deteriorated with them.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> The nightly news just said there are many more problems with Obamacare besides the website. Major carriers did not go with it in many states because they did not trust the enrollment. Looks like it is more trouble than the libs think!


1) the Libs don't think!
2) the data hub is completely useless - the security is nonexistent
3) I have family and friends who work in the IT security industry. They estimate their company could have created the most secure website within 6 months for less than $2 million dollars that would have functioned flawlessly. The job done, with topnotch security, ease of use and at least half the _initial_ cost and only 16% of the time frame.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Obviously better coverage, as the conservatives say that you get more coverage than you even knew you wanted!!!!


More coverage does not equate to better coverage.

I don't know about you, but when I'm 50 I won't be needing maternity coverage nor coverage for when I see a baby doctor as a simple example.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Great friends there. They participated in 9/11. They abuse women. They got us into Gulf Wars, costing us big money. We're producing more oil ourselves now. I think Saudi Arabia is friends we can do without. IMHO


Wait here a min. they did not participate in the 9/11 . you may want to look that one up, abuse women when did you finial see the light, we were suppose to not judge all Muslims?

Gulf War was not causeds by them.

Oil not enough for what this country is using that is why we need friends in the middle East. Also to keep the Suez canal which carrys the oil we imported oil
oil is imported with out that amount you would be screaming about companies are over priceing you. As everything you use today is connected to Oil. Also you did not include how new rules do not allow for drilling for more oil to make us less dependent on the oil we have to use. If you think gas prices are high now go for it.

The Saudies were our biggest allies in the middle East that is still the most a stable country.
Yippie we don't need any of them or their oil. you are so not right.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am all too aware of how the Middle East hates us. I heard it first hand overseas. That was about 35 years ago. Could not believe my ears. There is a basic, fundamental hate for the US. That does not mean that we need to make it worse.


Sorry--I don't agree that trying to appease Saudi Arabia so they don't do something worse to us is the right course of action. Anyway, it won't work--nothing less than a nationwide conversion to Islam will satisfy them. Would you be willing to give up your Christianity just to "get along"?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Linda?
> You can never satisfy these folks. The questions they ask are for information nobody can possibly have unless it is so personal anybody would be hesitant to share it online.
> Keep at it if you wish, it is hopeless.


Really jelun? You cannot tell me who should be responsible for the failed website for Obamacare? Who knew you could not possibly have that information. Amazing! It really is personal, isn't it?

Since you only get your info and talking points from people, stations, and blogs that don't report the *news*, I'm not surprised. Even still, you should be able to suggest who might be held responsible. Tell Jay Carney to give you a name to blame because you're not able to think of one yourself.

Also, I don't know what you are hiding so close to your chest about what you think would be better insurance coverage that what you have today seeing that you have already told us you are not needing to change your present insurance coverage. You must be afraid of change or know you don't want anything having to do with Obamacare, but simply cannot admit it.

That's four Liberals that cannot answer two simple questions.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And a 58 year old single man needs maternity coverage and birth control.


Love this - perhaps it could be Carney's talking point for the Dems today!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

EveMCooke

you may want to go to Saints and Sinners and talk about your country and what is happening there. Seem your country is in a mess too.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Thanks for the chuckle, KPG.


You're welcome!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I believe that they hate President Obama first and foremost. Did not the GOP proclaim at the beginning of the administration that their goal was to prevent a second term at all costs? IMHO


OMG! Damemary just answered!!!!! The Liberals hate Obama, not Obamacare. Hallelujah - I have ONE answer and know who to hold responsible.   :lol:

Thanks dame! I didn't know you had it in you to answer _anything._

Wanna give my second question a try?  :-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG! Damemary just answered!!!!! The Liberals hate Obama, not Obamacare. Hallelujah - I have ONE answer and know who to hold responsible.   :lol:
> 
> Thanks dame! I didn't know you had it in you to answer _anything._
> 
> Wanna give my second question a try?  :-D


Why bother?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> I agree they hate President Obama and therefor they hate Obamacare. All you have to do is listen to some of them talk about the roll out of Part D and then listen to that same person talk about Obamacare. Again, my favorite word for republicans. HYPOCRITE.


OMG - again! Another Liberal admits that Liberals *hate* Obama. I cannot believe my eyes ... * and * they hate Obamacare too! Good golly - what a morning this has become!

  :lol: Finally, some honesty from the Liberals ... and from NJG who repeatedly reports she'll stay away from the open KP threads and retreat only to the Liberal exclusive threads. My goodness, the world is a-changing. The Liberals are beginning to see the light!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I see knitpresentgifts & Lukelucy are awake........and the race is on. :roll:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As to the ACA I am waiting myself to see what happens so will not comment on that. But from what has happen so far I think we are having problems that will have to be address.
And Obama did promise we would not have to change the Doctors we liked.

Why are some democrat now against this plan.

Like I said I am waiting to see. Now that they have March to get computer program sloved. Will have to just wait and see how things are going to be.

Still say it would have been a better idea to regulate insurance industry's like they do banking ect.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I know that this is difficult for you to understand. I am not interested in pointing fingers of blame, I am interested in a fix. I do not equate the poor beginning of the website with a lack of quality in the product. They are the same health insurance companies that the American public has been doing business with for generations pushed to provide better. 
Nobody is interested in playing your stupid 20 questions. 
Another difficult to understand concept for you, you don't get to set the rules around here, you don't set the requirements of what people talk about or what queries they answer.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Really jelun? You cannot tell me who should be responsible for the failed website for Obamacare? Who knew you couldn't not possibly have that information. Amazing!
> 
> Since you only get your info and talking points from people, stations, and blogs that don't report the *news*, I'm not surprised. Even still, you should be able to suggest who might be held responsible. Tell Jay Carney to give you a name to blame because you're not able to think of one yourself.
> 
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why not respond as when we don't respond to your untruths, you call us stupid!


Janeway - she isn't capable of forming any thought that isn't meant to insult or hurt someone. I don't read their posts any longer but just backtracked to see who you are speaking of. '

I don't expect anything from her nor MIB; they are best left to their drugs of choice and their worlds of darkness and hate.

BTW: love your images!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.
> 
> Hugs, Jane


Prayers and best wishes!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I see knitprestgifts & Lukelucy are awake........and the race is on. :roll:


Lewis Carroll's description of a caucus race fits the situation to a T:

First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, ('the exact shape doesn't matter,' it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no 'One, two, three, and away,' but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out 'The race is over!' and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, 'But who has won?'


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


Obama has been proven to be a liar yet again.

Expected that upwards of 14 million insured citizens will now be dropped from their present coverage and have NO health insurance coverage. If those who are dropped wish to purchase new policies, it is expected that 80% will pay higher premiums that have higher deductibles and more things covered that they don't require but will be forced to buy insurance to cover.

A complete bold-faced lie by Obama and his Administration.

The ONLY people who are benefiting are the extremely poor who can now sign up for health insurance for FREE (paid by the American taxpayer) as they didn't have insurance before.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Lewis Carroll's description of a caucus race fits the situation to a T:
> 
> First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, ('the exact shape doesn't matter,' it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no 'One, two, three, and away,' but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out 'The race is over!' and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, 'But who has won?'


I had forgotten that bit! How apropos.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


The Libs don't care a wit that millions of people who HAD and PAID for their own health insurance will now have NONE.

That means all are headed to the ER room for their health care!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is having trouble working with other countries. Just another example of his ability to be a president.


 :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) the Libs don't think!
> 2) the data hub is completely useless - the security is nonexistent
> 3) I have family and friends who work in the IT security industry. They estimate their company could have created the most secure website within 6 months for less than $2 million dollars that would have functioned flawlessly. The job done, with topnotch security, easy of use and at least half the _initial_ cost and only 16% of the time frame.


And the libs think the government will do a good job with our health care in general. Give me a break. The whole thing is a badly planned piece of ....


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> More coverage does not equate to better coverage.
> 
> I don't know about you, but when I'm 50 I don't need maternity coverage nor coverage for when I see a baby doctor as a simple example.


I wonder if people are analyzing what is going on with the new care they are getting. And it is costing us more!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry--I don't agree that trying to appease Saudi Arabia so they don't do something worse to us is the right course of action. Anyway, it won't work--nothing less than a nationwide conversion to Islam will satisfy them. Would you be willing to give up your Christianity just to "get along"?


You are completely missing my point. What you wrote has nothing to do what I was trying to say. I give up.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I truly hope you get the best results possible.


Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies, I'm off to have cardiac testing so may be off line a few days. Don't worry about me as I have the lord in my heart & he will take care of me whatever happens.
> 
> Hugs, Jane


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You just won't admit he lied.


 ... and being *mandated* to have health insurance is different than buying car insurance with mandated minimums IF you chose to own a vehicle!

Those who had the minimum health insurance THEY chose for themselves are now being forced to buy more insurance they DON'T want nor often need.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> EveMCooke
> 
> you may want to go to Saints and Sinners and talk about your country and what is happening there. Seem your country is in a mess too.


I had not seen the thread, saints and sinners, so I looked it up in search. There were a few posters from the UK and a couple from Oz. The facts given were incorrect and show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for refugees. We have an obligation under the UN Charter for Refugees to help them. The poster is completely incorrect when she states that they receive more help than Australians do. They are now sent off shore for processing and they will not be allowed to settle in Australia even if they are found to be genuine refugees. The poster does not understand the desperation that drives these people to risk their lives in unsafe boats in unsafe waters to our north west. Refugees released from detention centres are given temporary relief visas and a living allowance from the government, they are not allowed to work. This allowance does not cover rent and utilities let alone food, without help from private citizens these people would be in really dire straights. What this poster states is fact is only racism and nonsense. Ask her if she actually knows any refugees or even if she has had a conversation with them, I bet she will reply no. I, on the other hand, do interact with many, many refugees. I find that they are eager to talk to Australians, learn the language and settle into their adopted country. Do you or she know the history of the Huzzar people of Afghanistan and the persecution they face in their own country?
Even the comments about the baby bonus is incorrect. Many Australians deemed it middle class welfare as it was not means tested and benefited the rich who did not need it. It was cut from $5,000 to $3,000, and in the last budget the lump sum payment was scrapped in favour of fortnightly payments. Some recipients did misuse the lump sum payments. By the way, it was introduced by John Howard, our former Prime Minister, as a vote catcher. He was a member of the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. That is the Liberal Party of Australia, a conservative party, not a party of liberal thinkers. A right wing party, similar to your Republic Party. The party of liberal thinkers is the Australian Labor Party.
Yes, Australia has its problems and you are free to voice your opinions on how my country is run, but we do have a great medical system in place. I think you could learn a bit by studying our system, it helps the poor and you pay according to your income. The payment is calculated in your income tax return, and under a certain income you do not have to pay anything. This income level is adjusted depending on the number of children you have, and if your income is above a certain limit you have to have private insurance as well or you are charged an extra levy. It is part of life, from each according to their ability to each according to their need.
I have comments on certain topics on KP but I have not slammed your government in any way. I have taken posters to task for showing disrespect towards your President. Some posters are downright disgusting. That is the individuals I am criticising, not the country as a whole or the government in any way.

Please feel free to voice your displeasure with the Australian government and the Australian way of life if you please, you have freedom of speech. But if your comments are incorrect you will be pulled up short.

I think your comment is actually telling me to belt up and not to make any comments because I am not a citizen of the US, and according to you only a citizen of the US can participate in any debate.

I believe there is a programme on TV called Saints and Sinners, I have not heard of it, I do not know if it is shown in Western Australia, and cannot comment on its content.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You are completely missing my point. What you wrote has nothing to do what I was trying to say. I give up.


Could that be because you think that the US should be bending over backward to make the monarchy of Saudi Arabia happy? 
Could you enumerate the issues that the Saudis want us to give on besides going to war with Assad?
And, please, while you are at it could you respond to that last question about how many nations in Africa we should appease? Why not look up how much those places have in untapped fuel resources?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I really like your post. It's a great simile, and very well written. I think you've captured what's important about which mittots we chose to look into. Thanks!! :-D :thumbup: If you'll pardon me harking back to Harry Potter, Ithink that a lot of times we look in the Mirror of Erised.


EveMCooke said:


> The question is - do mirrors lie?
> 
> Well, here are several answers to consider.
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I had not seen the thread, saints and sinners, so I looked it up in search. There were a few posters from the UK and a couple from Oz. The facts given were incorrect and show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for refugees. We have an obligation under the UN Charter for Refugees to help them. The poster is completely incorrect when she states that they receive more help than Australians do. They are now sent off shore for processing and they will not be allowed to settle in Australia even if they are found to be genuine refugees. The poster does not understand the desperation that drives these people to risk their lives in unsafe boats in unsafe waters to our north west. Refugees released from detention centres are given temporary relief visas and a living allowance from the government, they are not allowed to work. This allowance does not cover rent and utilities let alone food, without help from private citizens these people would be in really dire straights. What this poster states is fact is only racism and nonsense. Ask her if she actually knows any refugees or even if she has had a conversation with them, I bet she will reply no. I, on the other hand, do interact with many, many refugees. I find that they are eager to talk to Australians, learn the language and settle into their adopted country. Do you or she know the history of the Huzzar people of Afghanistan and the persecution they face in their own country?
> Even the comments about the baby bonus is incorrect. Many Australians deemed it middle class welfare as it was not means tested and benefited the rich who did not need it. It was cut from $5,000 to $3,000, and in the last budget the lump sum payment was scrapped in favour of fortnightly payments. Some recipients did misuse the lump sum payments. By the way, it was introduced by John Howard, our former Prime Minister, as a vote catcher. He was a member of the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. That is the Liberal Party of Australia, a conservative party, not a party of liberal thinkers. A right wing party, similar to your Republic Party. The party of liberal thinkers is the Australian Labor Party.
> Yes, Australia has its problems and you are free to voice your opinions on how my country is run, but we do have a great medical system in place. I think you could learn a bit by studying our system, it helps the poor and you pay according to your income. The payment is calculated in your income tax return, and under a certain income you do not have to pay anything. This income level is adjusted depending on the number of children you have, and if your income is above a certain limit you have to have private insurance as well or you are charged an extra levy. It is part of life, from each according to their ability to each according to their need.
> I have comments on certain topics on KP but I have not slammed your government in any way. I have taken posters to task for showing disrespect towards your President. Some posters are downright disgusting. That is the individuals I am criticising, not the country as a whole or the government in any way.
> ...


That is not what I am saying I am saying you are judging the right in this country when your own countrymen do not agree with each other. So I do feel that you should be learning from both sides of this country as apposed to be judging one side against the other.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> That is not what I am saying I am saying you are judging the right in this country when your own countrymen do not agree with each other. So I do feel that you should be learning from both sides of this country as apposed to be judging one side against the other.


For heaven's sake, get three people together and they have 3 different opinions. That is human nature. 
You seem to want to have an honest discussion why would you not want any opinion that might enlighten?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Wouldn't it be nice if those die hard agitators in this forum would realize that there are no winners in this race? Hence the term......beating a dead horse. 
MEANING:
(To bring up an issue that has already been concluded; something that's considered to be pointless. If an argument erupts and it's one that has been previously settled, then the idiom
"beating a dead horse" might be said by someone who sees any further discussion on the topic to be meaningless.)



susanmos2000 said:


> Lewis Carroll's description of a caucus race fits the situation to a T:
> 
> First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, ('the exact shape doesn't matter,' it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no 'One, two, three, and away,' but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out 'The race is over!' and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, 'But who has won?'


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Introspection is the most reliable reflection of all. Don't you think?


Sure do :!: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Pick one - there are three major ones. The are all saying the same thing.


Your mind is a terrible thing to waste. There are a lot more than 3 nightly news programs and I aked which one you listended to.It's too bad you never learned how to answer a question.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I know that this is difficult for you to understand. I am not interested in pointing fingers of blame, I am interested in a fix. I do not equate the poor beginning of the website with a lack of quality in the product. They are the same health insurance companies that the American public has been doing business with for generations pushed to provide better.
> Nobody is interested in playing your stupid 20 questions.
> Another difficult to understand concept for you, you don't get to set the rules around here, you don't set the requirements of what people talk about or what queries they answer.


There we have it! The Libs are willing to point to their fingers at Bush or anyone with whom they don't agree. Yet, when a MAJOR FAILURE, something as simple as a product website, FAILS, which is the signature legislation of a Democratic President, not ONE Liberal can mention a name of whose authority and responsibility that failure belongs. It is apparent the President has no control of his Administration nor knowledge of anything he supports. We all know he cannot govern, but obviously he cannot delegate or chose appropriate staff members either.

I didn't ask 20 questions, jelun. You and your Libs pals cannot answer ONE question of TWO I asked. It shows ignorance of your party and the inability to take responsibility for actions whether for good or bad. The FACT none of you can form a logical explanation on your own accord and use your brain makes very clear none of your party has a clue what they are doing.

Why should anyone be part of any party that cannot acknowledge reality?

I wish no control over you or this website. You are on mostly all day and regularly pose questions. Shall I assume then, it is you, who wishes complete control of everyone? I leave you to it knowing you could not handle that simplie responsibility any more than Obama could.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You are completely missing my point. What you wrote has nothing to do what I was trying to say. I give up.


Nothing new there ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> There we have it! The Libs are willing to point to their fingers at Bush or anyone with whom they don't agree. Yet, when a MAJOR FAILURE, something as simple as a product website, FAILS, which is the signature legislation of a Democratic President, not ONE Liberal can mention a name of whose authority and responsibility that failure belongs. It is apparent the President has no control of his Administration nor knowledge of anything he supports. We all know he cannot govern, but obviously he cannot delegate or chose appropriate staff members either.
> 
> I didn't ask 20 questions, jelun. You and your Libs pals cannot answer ONE question of TWO I asked. It shows ignorance of your party and the inability to take responsibility for actions whether for good or bad. The FACT none of you can form a logical explanation on your own accord and use your brain makes very clear none of your party has a clue what they are doing.
> 
> ...


I take it you are a systems developer? You claim that producing with multiples of connectors is simple?
That is just about the silliest thing I have read in a long time. CYA


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if those die hard agitators in this forum would realize that there are no winners in this race? Hence the term......beating a dead horse.
> MEANING:
> (To bring up an issue that has already been concluded; something that's considered to be pointless. If an argument erupts and it's one that has been previously settled, then the idiom
> "beating a dead horse" might be said by someone who sees any further discussion on the topic to be meaningless.)


Perhaps you should become aware that this forum is not a contest to see who is the 'winner.' You would be best served to realize the art of debate, discussion, sharing ideas and conversation can be rewarding and fun and produce new ideas without the need to beat anyone or any animal nor proclaim a winner.

I guess you are a person who just follows the crowd and expends no personal knowledge nor initiative to be a leader, thinking person or one to strive for change and improvement.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Could that be because you think that the US should be bending over backward to make the monarchy of Saudi Arabia happy?
> Could you enumerate the issues that the Saudis want us to give on besides going to war with Assad?
> And, please, while you are at it could you respond to that last question about how many nations in Africa we should appease? Why not look up how much those places have in untapped fuel resources?


Hey, I thought you just said we are not allowed to ask questions of one another. What gives?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

In other words you are not a contentious, old fool. Because it is for sure that most of what goes on here is not debate. Debate has rules and those rules do not include the sort of discourse that passes for interchange here.

Nussa wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if those die hard agitators in this forum would realize that there are no winners in this race? Hence the term......beating a dead horse. 
MEANING:
(To bring up an issue that has already been concluded; something that's considered to be pointless. If an argument erupts and it's one that has been previously settled, then the idiom
"beating a dead horse" might be said by someone who sees any further discussion on the topic to be meaningless.)



knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps you should become aware that this forum is not a contest to see who is the 'winner.' You would be best served to realize the art of debate, discussion, sharing ideas and conversation is rewarding and fun without the need to beat anyone or any animal nor proclaim a winner.
> 
> I guess you are a person who just follows the crowd and expends no personal knowledge nor initiative to be a leader, thinking person or one to strive for change and improvement.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> In other words you are not a contentious, old fool. Because it is for sure that most of what goes on here is not debate. Debate has rules and those rules do not include the sort of discourse that passes for interchange here.


1) I'm not old - you are correct!
2) I'm not a fool - thanks for noticing!
3) I never said this site offers a 'debate' and most who post here would certainly fail if it were so.

Losing control so soon jelun?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I guess you are a person who just follows the crowd and expends no personal knowledge nor initiative to be a leader, thinking person or one to strive for change and improvement.


_brum-brum-brum-brum-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr_


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> _brum-brum-brum-brum-brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr_


And she doesn't know what CYA means.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> For heaven's sake, get three people together and they have 3 different opinions. That is human nature.
> You seem to want to have an honest discussion why would you not want any opinion that might enlighten?


Because that is the fair way to debate isn't it to listen to both sides?

I read your post and am trying to reply how I feel. She seem to judge the right with out listening to both sides.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Personally, I don't understand why we outsourced the job of the ACA website to a Canadian IT business. I'm not badmouthing Canadian business. I happen to think we should use US businesses whenever possible. "Made In America" means something to me. I suspect, but do not actually know, that CGI gave the lowest bid to build the ACA website and we're seeing why it would have been better to use a US company, to appeal to the many Americans who feel as I do about outsourcing, and why the cheapest company isn't the best one to choose, if CGI was the lowest bidder for the job . The President and those who chose CGI are responsible for the current state of the ACA website.

I have good health insureance. I get to keep it, and I don't want to change it after spending 13 years with the same insurer and care provider and having the same doctors for so long. It took some time at first to find the docs I felt confortable with, especially my PCP, and I dread the idea of having to go through that process again and am very relieved I don't have to. 


knitpresentgifts said:


> Really jelun? You cannot tell me who should be responsible for the failed website for Obamacare? Who knew you could not possibly have that information. Amazing! It really is personal, isn't it?
> 
> Since you only get your info and talking points from people, stations, and blogs that don't report the *news*, I'm not surprised. Even still, you should be able to suggest who might be held responsible. Tell Jay Carney to give you a name to blame because you're not able to think of one yourself.
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Because that is the far way to debate isn't to listen to both sides?
> 
> I read your post and am trying to reply how I feel. She seem to judge the right with out listening to both sides.


Are you talking about Nussa?
I had the distinct impression that she was referring to both sides. After all, there cannot be a discussion that continues in a disagreeable (or agreeable manner, for that matter) without two sides.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Personally, I don't understand why we outsourced the job of the ACA website to a Canadian IT business. I'm not badmouthing Canadian business. I happen to think we should use US businesses whenever possible. "Made In America" means something to me. I suspect, but do not actually know, that CGI gave the lowest bid to build the ACA website and we're seeing why it would have been better to use a US company, to appeal to the many Americans who feel as I do about outsourcing, and why the cheapest company isn't the best one to choose, if CGI was the lowest bidder for the job . The President and those who chose CGI are responsible for the current state of the ACA website.
> 
> I have good health insureance. I get to keep it, and I don't want to change it after spending 13 years with the same insurer and care provider and having the same doctors for so long. It took some time at first to find the docs I felt confortable with, especially my PCP, and I dread the idea of having to go through that process again and am very relieved I don't have to.


These tech companies have long standing contracts to do business with the US government. I have read, have not confirmed yet, that these contracts have been in place for close to a decade. That is where the exorbitant amounts mentioned come from. These companies have done all sorts of programs for us. 
At this point, I presume that they were involved in a bidding process to do X amount of programs or years of work.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Wow!! You are really looking for a response here, eh? I'm a REPUBLICAN who has voted for a Democrat for the last 16 years for a reason...
> 1) I want the US, as a whole, to find ways to help the poor of this nation. If it's a better education, school meals, or any kind of health plan, I'm for it. They have to get a leg up or they will stay poor, sick and despairing.
> 2) I've seen so much absolutely ridiculous material coming thru the internet (and FOX TV) that makes me sick. It's hard to believe so many people will believe everything they read/hear. It's kind of like the rag magazines that take and photo of some celebrity looking sad and then say he/she has cancer because they look bad on one photo.
> 3) I've paid taxes for over 50 years and if I can help someone with that money I'm more than happy to. I hear so many conservatives say that they want to just help people through their church. Well, then if they are so generous, why can't some of their tax money go to the same place?
> ...


Nicely stated!!! Thank you!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Personally, I don't understand why we outsourced the job of the ACA website to a Canadian IT business. I'm not badmouthing Canadian business. I happen to think we should use US businesses whenever possible. "Made In Am erica" means something to me.


I wonder if perhaps the Administration feared the IT firm would face harassment and/or a boycott if it chose an American company. Plenty of righties frothing at the mouth over the ACA--what better way to relieve themselves than taking it out on the company who designed the system?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wonder if perhaps the Administration feared the IT firm would face harassment and/or a boycott if it chose an American company. Plenty of righties frothing at the mouth over the ACA--what better way to relieve themselves than taking it out on the company who designed the system?


LOL, if they hadn't had a contract that might have been a good point.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And deciding what kind of health insurance everyone HAS to HAVE.


Our company just sent a letter to the employees - info about our healthcare insurance renewal. No change in coverage but policy went up 13% which is decent especially considering our insurance has not increased in 3 years.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

As to saying i have a wait and see about the ACA.

So far from what I have seen.

We have wasted a lot of money on a computer program and now have to pay more of our taxes dollars to start over.

The President made the promise if you like your doctor you could keep that doctor. That has been proven to not be true.

The President seem not to know what is going on in his administration. He needs to get control of the persons he allows to do what they have been doing. Which seem to me they are making wrong decision.
He needs to step in and tell them what he wants instead of allowing them to do as they want. 

I am still willing to wait and see if and when the whole of this program will indeed help or hinder health care.

So far I do not see any good coming out of it.

As to someone saying there is no death panel. I will not call it a death panel.

But when seven people who do not have any knowledege of medicine, nor understand treatments I feel they should not be making medical decisions about what should and shouldn't be allowed. I would perfer that someone with medical knowledge be put on this committee.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> It seems to me that it is the insurance companies who deserve more of the 'Obamacare' vitriol. It is they who are cancelling people's policies......because people were paying for substandard policies....and the insurance companies are totally responsible for the new increase in prices.....and they always look out for #1....and that #1 is NOT the policyholders. Bquote]
> 
> Exactly!!! Why aren't people angry at the insurance companies. After all, they are the one that decide what procedures they will or won't pay for that affect your quality of life.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if those die hard agitators in this forum would realize that there are no winners in this race? Hence the term......beating a dead horse.
> MEANING:
> (To bring up an issue that has already been concluded; something that's considered to be pointless. If an argument erupts and it's one that has been previously settled, then the idiom
> "beating a dead horse" might be said by someone who sees any further discussion on the topic to be meaningless.)


If this is true why are you even reading any of the post???


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Will she be spending the same about of time with each patient as before? Will she be overtired and, therefore, not "up to par" some days? This all affects one's care. I am sure she is a doctor because of her love of helping people. How can she help people when she is overworked?


Wow - do you just look for things to be negative about? How about being grateful that this physician is caring enough to take the time with her patients.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> That is not what I am saying I am saying you are judging the right in this country when your own countrymen do not agree with each other. So I do feel that you should be learning from both sides of this country as apposed to be judging one side against the other.


I have just posted a reply on the thread saints and sinners,pointing out that the poster is incorrect in what they have said. I have said that the comments are racist and I think they are racist and uninformed.

I wonder if you will read my long two posts and see what is fact and what is fiction regarding what payments refugees and asylum seekers are supposed to be receiving from the Federal Government.

I am not 'judging one side against the other' but I see one side as not being compasionate or willing to help their fellow citizens who are experiencing hard times and need help to survive.

I ask that people be compassionate and help those who need help rather than fight to retain their own priviledged place in society. From each according to their ability to each according to their need.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just posted a reply on the thread saints and sinners,pointing out that the poster is incorrect in what they have said. I have said that the comments are racist and I think they are racist and uninformed.
> 
> I wonder if you will read my long two posts and see what is fact and what is fiction regarding what payments refugees and asylum seekers are supposed to be receiving from the Federal Government.
> 
> ...


So true, Eve. I find it shocking that so many conservatives are praying for the ACA to fail, irregardless of that fact that such an event would leave millions and millions of Americans once more without health insurance. There's no compassion in such a desire--no humanity, no feeling of Christian charity, really not much of anything except selfishness and contempt for one's fellow citizens.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> As to saying i have a wait and see about the ACA.
> 
> So far from what I have seen.
> 
> ...


In my experience, any contract between a private contractor works pretty much like an agreement between a contractor and an individual or other business entity. The work is guaranteed. This is not hourly wage stuff, this is a deal to get the work done properly. 
So we will not be paying more money for the fix. These companies will be spending to make it good. 
The appropriations had already been made to have this computer company so I am not sure that we can consider this money wasted or more money wasted.

I am not sure how you can state unequivocally that "that has been proven false" when talking about people being able to keep their doctors. Having one's health insurance upgraded to a comprehensive policy does not preclude having the same doctor. Who do you think the insurance companies are going to contract with?

Who is this seven person panel you think is in charge of life and death decisions?

Just to jump in for a sec on the gov't regulation to Eve... What exactly do you think Obamacare is doing?
1. Requiring that companies limit their profit over medical costs to 20%
2. Provide preventative care
3. Provide coverage for pre-existing conditions

plus...

Fair Health Insurance Premiums

Health insurance issuers in the individual and small group markets would only be allowed to vary premiums based on age (within a 3:1 ratio for adults), tobacco use (within a 1.5:1 ratio and subject to wellness program requirements in the small group market), family size, and geography. All other factors  such as pre-existing conditions, health status, claims history, duration of coverage, gender, occupation, and small employer size and industry  would no longer be able to be used by insurance companies to increase the premiums for those seeking insurance.

Under the law, states can choose to enact stronger consumer protections than these minimum standards. In addition, starting in 2017, states have the option of allowing large employers to purchase coverage through the Exchanges. For states that choose this option, these rating rules also would apply to all large group health insurance coverage. These proposed rules standardize how health insurance issuers can price products, bringing a new level of transparency and fairness to premium pricing.

Single Risk Pool

Health insurance issuers would be required to maintain a single statewide risk pool for each of their individual and small employer markets, unless a state chooses to merge the individual and small group pools into one pool. Premiums and annual rate changes would be based on the health risk of the entire pool. This provision prevents insurers from using separate insurance pools within markets to get around the market reforms and to charge people with greater health problems higher premiums by increasing their premiums at higher rates than other, healthier risk pools.

Guaranteed Renewability of Coverage

The proposed rule would reaffirm existing protections that individuals and employers have with respect to coverage renewal. For example, these protections would prohibit issuers from refusing to renew coverage because an individual or employee becomes sick or has a pre-existing condition.

In addition, the proposed rule includes some additional provisions to protect consumers and increase choice for small employers.

Catastrophic Plans

The proposed rule also includes provisions for enrollment in catastrophic plans. Catastrophic plans have lower premiums, protect against high out-of-pocket costs, and cover recommended preventive services without cost sharingproviding affordable individual coverage options for young adults and people for whom coverage would otherwise be unaffordable.

Finally, in preparation for the market changes in 2014 and to streamline data collection for insurers and states, the rule proposes amendments to the rate review program.

To see the proposed rule, please visit: http://www.ofr.gov/inspection.aspx


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just posted a reply on the thread saints and sinners,pointing out that the poster is incorrect in what they have said. I have said that the comments are racist and I think they are racist and uninformed.
> 
> I wonder if you will read my long two posts and see what is fact and what is fiction regarding what payments refugees and asylum seekers are supposed to be receiving from the Federal Government.
> 
> ...


I will read it thank you.

But to say that I because i do not agree with adminisitons policys is wrong.

If that were true I would not do what I do to help my fellow man. We are not heartless, we do care. I just feel there is a better way to do health care than what is being done.

I feel that the goverment should have regulated the insuranace industry. I feel that if that had been done everything that the administion wanted would have been accomplish and it would not have cause the divide that is happening in this country.
i am trying here to get away from the fighting and name calling. Just trying to hear both sides and say how I feel. All may not like it, but think we have to as a nation and people have to come together fight the goverment and not each other.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Eve for the thoughtful answer.



EveMCooke said:


> The question is - do mirrors lie?
> 
> Well, here are several answers to consider.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Another one of your loveable and sweet comments to fellow KPers. You have such a Christian way of expressing your feelings about other KPers. Perhaps this is how you wish others to see you.


 :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great point.



jelun2 said:


> Introspection is the most reliable reflection of all. Don't you think?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wish more doctors had your daughter's attitude. She's obviously meant for the profession.



cynthia627 said:


> Well she will have to make the time to see more patients she said. Longer days, maybe a Saturday here and there. She said there are many more patients for her to see because of increased numbers of insured people. She said if you practice medicine you have to go with the changes as most doctors go into the profession to help people while getting paid well for all of their years of study and responsibility. Seeing more patients is part of her job she said. AND she loves being a physician11


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway, I hope your medical testing all turns out OK.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

oops, edited out by me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yarnlady, The hijackers in the September 11 attacks.

In the 9/11 attacks there were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. Others were from Egypt, Lebanon, and the UAE. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with four "muscle hijackers" who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.

You my dear are wrong.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your twisted logic is too silly to bother with. Sorry I tried. Erase that.



knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG! Damemary just answered!!!!! The Liberals hate Obama, not Obamacare. Hallelujah - I have ONE answer and know who to hold responsible.   :lol:
> 
> Thanks dame! I didn't know you had it in you to answer _anything._
> 
> Wanna give my second question a try?  :-D


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I see desperation coming from you knitpresentgifts. I have seen it in you and a couple of others who think as you do. There is no logic to your arguments. You can go online and dig up all the "FACTS" you want, and post them here, but it won't change a thing. And I can say in all honesty, that I have not read a single thing that jelun2 has written that is, in your words and I quote (Losing control so soon jelun?, end quote). Those are words of a desperate person. You haven't gotten a rise out of jelun2, and it is driving you to distraction. I don't often tell people this, but in your case I will make an exception....I believe you are the most foolish person I have ever come across in forums such as this. 
Now you go right ahead and say what a terrible, stupid, mean, rude, and ignorant person I am. Won't bother me a bit. That's the difference between you and me. It only hurts if you really care what the other person is saying to you, and I don't care. So you keep on beating that dead horse, and I'll watch, as you sink lower and lower in to what ever causes someone like you to brow beat others for no reason. IMHO, you believe you have some sort of superiority over ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. If you only realized how foolish you look.....I will pray for you. Because I don't wish your kind of anger on anyone. And I know deep inside, you don't want to be that way either. You just can't help yourself. God Bless!



knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I'm not old - you are correct!
> 2) I'm not a fool - thanks for noticing!
> 3) I never said this site offers a 'debate' and most who post here would certainly fail if it were so.
> 
> Losing control so soon jelun?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The liberals do not hate President Obama or Obamacare/ACA. Twisted questions over pages of posting will not make it different. Go on debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin without me.



knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG! Damemary just answered!!!!! The Liberals hate Obama, not Obamacare. Hallelujah - I have ONE answer and know who to hold responsible.   :lol:
> 
> Thanks dame! I didn't know you had it in you to answer _anything._
> 
> Wanna give my second question a try?  :-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm kicking myself.



susanmos2000 said:


> Why bother?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> These tech companies have long standing contracts to do business with the US government. I have read, have not confirmed yet, that these contracts have been in place for close to a decade. That is where the exorbitant amounts mentioned come from. These companies have done all sorts of programs for us.
> At this point, I presume that they were involved in a bidding process to do X amount of programs or years of work.


jelun2
private industry and government have been outsourcing for a long time. We are not pushing education as they do in other countries and that will become an even greater problem in the future. Ever tried to have some problem with your computer taken care of via your Server or some private enterprise which you may have a service contract with? You always wind up with some foreigner, usually in Asia who is most difficult to understand.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Lewis Carroll's description of a caucus race fits the situation to a T:
> 
> First it marked out a race-course, in a sort of circle, ('the exact shape doesn't matter,' it said,) and then all the party were placed along the course, here and there. There was no 'One, two, three, and away,' but they began running when they liked, and left off when they liked, so that it was not easy to know when the race was over. However, when they had been running half an hour or so, and were quite dry again, the Dodo suddenly called out 'The race is over!' and they all crowded round it, panting, and asking, 'But who has won?'


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: BRAVO!!!!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> More coverage does not equate to better coverage.
> 
> I don't know about you, but when I'm 50 I won't be needing maternity coverage nor coverage for when I see a baby doctor as a simple example.


Here in NYS , I've been paying for maternity coverage for years, and don't need it. I bought into a BC/BS policy last year even tho I have a pre-exisiting condition. No problem, they had to take me. I'm not sure, but I don't think ACA will affect me. I can't say for sure, but we already have high minimum standards. I received a letter from (?) that had a list of about 6 new insurance companies being available. BC/BS hasn't cancelled me. hmmm, now what did I do with that letter with the list on it. There are other reasons we already pay a high price in NYS for insurance and have for a long time. Well, those of us who buy individual policies. Tho I was able to purchase thru the Chamber of commerce and get the group rate of $576.00 just for myself. I have to take money from my IRA to pay for it. Along with property taxes, but I won't go into that here. Be thankful you don't lives where you are taxed like crazy. You wouldn't believe it. ugh. It'll be great to have a subsidy for a while.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Eve, it is a great pleasure to have you comment on anything. Your postings are thoughtful and full of facts.



EveMCooke said:


> I had not seen the thread, saints and sinners, so I looked it up in search. There were a few posters from the UK and a couple from Oz. The facts given were incorrect and show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for refugees. We have an obligation under the UN Charter for Refugees to help them. The poster is completely incorrect when she states that they receive more help than Australians do. They are now sent off shore for processing and they will not be allowed to settle in Australia even if they are found to be genuine refugees. The poster does not understand the desperation that drives these people to risk their lives in unsafe boats in unsafe waters to our north west. Refugees released from detention centres are given temporary relief visas and a living allowance from the government, they are not allowed to work. This allowance does not cover rent and utilities let alone food, without help from private citizens these people would be in really dire straights. What this poster states is fact is only racism and nonsense. Ask her if she actually knows any refugees or even if she has had a conversation with them, I bet she will reply no. I, on the other hand, do interact with many, many refugees. I find that they are eager to talk to Australians, learn the language and settle into their adopted country. Do you or she know the history of the Huzzar people of Afghanistan and the persecution they face in their own country?
> Even the comments about the baby bonus is incorrect. Many Australians deemed it middle class welfare as it was not means tested and benefited the rich who did not need it. It was cut from $5,000 to $3,000, and in the last budget the lump sum payment was scrapped in favour of fortnightly payments. Some recipients did misuse the lump sum payments. By the way, it was introduced by John Howard, our former Prime Minister, as a vote catcher. He was a member of the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. That is the Liberal Party of Australia, a conservative party, not a party of liberal thinkers. A right wing party, similar to your Republic Party. The party of liberal thinkers is the Australian Labor Party.
> Yes, Australia has its problems and you are free to voice your opinions on how my country is run, but we do have a great medical system in place. I think you could learn a bit by studying our system, it helps the poor and you pay according to your income. The payment is calculated in your income tax return, and under a certain income you do not have to pay anything. This income level is adjusted depending on the number of children you have, and if your income is above a certain limit you have to have private insurance as well or you are charged an extra levy. It is part of life, from each according to their ability to each according to their need.
> I have comments on certain topics on KP but I have not slammed your government in any way. I have taken posters to task for showing disrespect towards your President. Some posters are downright disgusting. That is the individuals I am criticising, not the country as a whole or the government in any way.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Could that be because you think that the US should be bending over backward to make the monarchy of Saudi Arabia happy?
> Could you enumerate the issues that the Saudis want us to give on besides going to war with Assad?
> And, please, while you are at it could you respond to that last question about how many nations in Africa we should appease? Why not look up how much those places have in untapped fuel resources?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Don't expect an answer, of course, but pulling the discussion back to fact is always worth it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obama has been proven to be a liar yet again.
> 
> Expected that upwards of 14 million insured citizens will now be dropped from their present coverage and have NO health insurance coverage. If those who are dropped wish to purchase new policies, it is expected that 80% will pay higher premiums that have higher deductibles and more things covered that they don't require but will be forced to buy insurance to cover.
> 
> ...


KPG
into name calling full force again I see while Bible in hand. What a Christian Lady you are.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I take it you are a systems developer? You claim that producing with multiples of connectors is simple?
> That is just about the silliest thing I have read in a long time. CYA


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

KPG is so full of hot air.....thanks for the reply.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This ridiculous exchange just proves some people must be totally ignored in order for the rest of us to have any meaningful discourse. I've relearned the error of my ways.



jelun2 said:


> In other words you are not a contentious, old fool. Because it is for sure that most of what goes on here is not debate. Debate has rules and those rules do not include the sort of discourse that passes for interchange here.
> 
> Nussa wrote:
> Wouldn't it be nice if those die hard agitators in this forum would realize that there are no winners in this race? Hence the term......beating a dead horse.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Referring to KPG.


jelun2 said:


> And she doesn't know what CYA means.


No, but she lives her life as though she does.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I think the fact that you aren't a US citizen and you participate here, which is a pretty ugly place sometimes, is great. News in the US generally ignores what's happening in other countries unless it's something like covering the Middle East and Afghanistan or horrific events wherever they occur, including in the US.

Americans can accees news from other countries if they take a little time to look for it. For example, we have BBC America which is very easy to find. For those who use the internet, there is a lot of news there The problem with internet news is determining if the source is reliable.

Hang in there, and don't let the ruder folks get to you too much. I read your post quoted below and was fascinated. many thanks. :-D :-D :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


EveMCooke said:


> I had not seen the thread, saints and sinners, so I looked it up in search. There were a few posters from the UK and a couple from Oz. The facts given were incorrect and show a complete lack of understanding and sympathy for refugees. We have an obligation under the UN Charter for Refugees to help them. The poster is completely incorrect when she states that they receive more help than Australians do. They are now sent off shore for processing and they will not be allowed to settle in Australia even if they are found to be genuine refugees. The poster does not understand the desperation that drives these people to risk their lives in unsafe boats in unsafe waters to our north west. Refugees released from detention centres are given temporary relief visas and a living allowance from the government, they are not allowed to work. This allowance does not cover rent and utilities let alone food, without help from private citizens these people would be in really dire straights. What this poster states is fact is only racism and nonsense. Ask her if she actually knows any refugees or even if she has had a conversation with them, I bet she will reply no. I, on the other hand, do interact with many, many refugees. I find that they are eager to talk to Australians, learn the language and settle into their adopted country. Do you or she know the history of the Huzzar people of Afghanistan and the persecution they face in their own country?
> Even the comments about the baby bonus is incorrect. Many Australians deemed it middle class welfare as it was not means tested and benefited the rich who did not need it. It was cut from $5,000 to $3,000, and in the last budget the lump sum payment was scrapped in favour of fortnightly payments. Some recipients did misuse the lump sum payments. By the way, it was introduced by John Howard, our former Prime Minister, as a vote catcher. He was a member of the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. That is the Liberal Party of Australia, a conservative party, not a party of liberal thinkers. A right wing party, similar to your Republic Party. The party of liberal thinkers is the Australian Labor Party.
> Yes, Australia has its problems and you are free to voice your opinions on how my country is run, but we do have a great medical system in place. I think you could learn a bit by studying our system, it helps the poor and you pay according to your income. The payment is calculated in your income tax return, and under a certain income you do not have to pay anything. This income level is adjusted depending on the number of children you have, and if your income is above a certain limit you have to have private insurance as well or you are charged an extra levy. It is part of life, from each according to their ability to each according to their need.
> I have comments on certain topics on KP but I have not slammed your government in any way. I have taken posters to task for showing disrespect towards your President. Some posters are downright disgusting. That is the individuals I am criticising, not the country as a whole or the government in any way.
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

What in the world does the fact that people don't agree with each other about political issues in their countries have to do with remarking and even judging conservatives here? I'll bet Eve has taken a look at both sides in the US. I hope she'll read this post of mine and confirm her fairness.


theyarnlady said:


> That is not what I am saying I am saying you are judging the right in this country when your own countrymen do not agree with each other. So I do feel that you should be learning from both sides of this country as apposed to be judging one side against the other.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh, KPG, you've outdone yourself here. if the art of debate is being practiced here it's so small you need an electron microscope to find it.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps you should become aware that this forum is not a contest to see who is the 'winner.' You would be best served to realize the art of debate, discussion, sharing ideas and conversation can be rewarding and fun and produce new ideas without the need to beat anyone or any animal nor proclaim a winner.
> 
> I guess you are a person who just follows the crowd and expends no personal knowledge nor initiative to be a leader, thinking person or one to strive for change and improvement.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I see desperation coming from you knitpresentgifts. I have seen it in you and a couple of others who think as you do. There is no logic to your arguments. You can go online and dig up all the "FACTS" you want, and post them here, but it won't change a thing. And I can say in all honesty, that I have not read a single thing that jelun2 has written that is, in your words and I quote (Losing control so soon jelun?, end quote). Those are words of a desperate person. You haven't gotten a rise out of jelun2, and it is driving you to distraction. I don't often tell people this, but in your case I will make an exception....I believe you are the most foolish person I have ever come across in forums such as this.
> Now you go right ahead and say what a terrible, stupid, mean, rude, and ignorant person I am. Won't bother me a bit. That's the difference between you and me. It only hurts if you really care what the other person is saying to you, and I don't care. So you keep on beating that dead horse, and I'll watch, as you sink lower and lower in to what ever causes someone like you to brow beat others for no reason. IMHO, you believe you have some sort of superiority over ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. If you only realized how foolish you look.....I will pray for you. Because I don't wish your kind of anger on anyone. And I know deep inside, you don't want to be that way either. You just can't help yourself. God Bless!


If you read closely, you will see that she also thinks and has her allies convinced that she is superior to them.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I have become concerned and have said that KPG is living in some kind of negative situation. Whatever it is, she is hysterical, angry and fearful a lot of the time. I can't change whatever is so terribly wrong in her life but I hope she will try to do so herself.


Nussa said:


> I see desperation coming from you knitpresentgifts. I have seen it in you and a couple of others who think as you do. There is no logic to your arguments. You can go online and dig up all the "FACTS" you want, and post them here, but it won't change a thing. And I can say in all honesty, that I have not read a single thing that jelun2 has written that is, in your words and I quote (Losing control so soon jelun?, end quote). Those are words of a desperate person. You haven't gotten a rise out of jelun2, and it is driving you to distraction. I don't often tell people this, but in your case I will make an exception....I believe you are the most foolish person I have ever come across in forums such as this.
> Now you go right ahead and say what a terrible, stupid, mean, rude, and ignorant person I am. Won't bother me a bit. That's the difference between you and me. It only hurts if you really care what the other person is saying to you, and I don't care. So you keep on beating that dead horse, and I'll watch, as you sink lower and lower in to what ever causes someone like you to brow beat others for no reason. IMHO, you believe you have some sort of superiority over ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. If you only realized how foolish you look.....I will pray for you. Because I don't wish your kind of anger on anyone. And I know deep inside, you don't want to be that way either. You just can't help yourself. God Bless!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for adding to what I know (or should I say "don't know") about IT companies doing business in the US.


jelun2 said:


> These tech companies have long standing contracts to do business with the US government. I have read, have not confirmed yet, that these contracts have been in place for close to a decade. That is where the exorbitant amounts mentioned come from. These companies have done all sorts of programs for us.
> At this point, I presume that they were involved in a bidding process to do X amount of programs or years of work.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Carney Takes The Long Route To Admitting Obamas You Can Keep Your Plan Promise Isnt True
> 
> _Carney: Well, well, lets  lets just be clear. What  what the President said, and everybody said all along is that  there are gonna be changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act that create minimum standards of coverage. Minimum services that every insurance plan has to provideso that an individual shopping for insurance, ah, when he or she purchases that insurance, knows that maternity care is covered; preventive services are covered; that mental health services are covered; that the insurance policy you buy doesnt have an annual limit, or a lifetime limit; that there re out-of-pocket expenses capped at a maximum level both annually and for a lifetime, so  its true that there are existing health care plans on the individual market that dont meet those minimum standards and therefore, ah, do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act; there are some that can be grandfathered if people wanna keep insurance thats substandard._
> 
> http://personalliberty.com/2013/10/28/carney-takes-the-long-route-to-admitting-obamas-you-can-keep-your-plan-promise-isnt-true/


This is the bottom line for the individuals losing their health coverage. Obamacare demands they have these, and other, requirements in their insurance policy. If your current policy does not have them, it doesn't meet the ACA's requirements and you will be dropped.

NBC reported that "the administration knew that between 50-80% of those with individual insurance could expect to be cancelled because their policies don't meet the ACA's minimum standards of coverage".

In Obama's 2009 speech to the AMA he said ... "no matter how we reform healthcare, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your healthcare plan, you'll be able to keep your healthcare plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what". I see "period" and "no matter what" don't apply to all of the American people after all. What pisses me off the most is that the administration knew this and kept lying up until the law was passed and implementation started. Now the back peddling starts.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) the Libs don't think!
> 2) the data hub is completely useless - the security is nonexistent
> 3) I have family and friends who work in the IT security industry. They estimate their company could have created the most secure website within 6 months for less than $2 million dollars that would have functioned flawlessly. The job done, with topnotch security, ease of use and at least half the _initial_ cost and only 16% of the time frame.


Well get those family and friends to offer their services.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> This is the bottom line for the individuals losing their health coverage. Obamacare demands they have these, and other, requirements in their insurance policy. If your current policy does not have them, it doesn't meet the ACA's requirements and you will be dropped.
> 
> NBC reported that "the administration knew that between 50-80% of those with individual insurance could expect to be cancelled because their policies don't meet the ACA's minimum standards of coverage".
> 
> In Obama's 2009 speech to the AMA he said ... "no matter how we reform healthcare, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your healthcare plan, you'll be able to keep your healthcare plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what". I see "period" and "no matter what" don't apply to all of the American people after all. What pisses me off the most is that the administration knew this and kept lying up until the law was passed and implementation started. Now the back peddling starts.


Nobody has lost a doc yet, except for those few lucky folks who have lost those reported here as cutting out because they are chickenchits and can't cope with the real world.

Has anyone who has reported that they are losing their health care plans said that they like them? The one example I focus on is that from the LA Times. It mentioned that she is concerned about the cost, I don't remember a thing about her liking it.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> More coverage does not equate to better coverage.
> 
> I don't know about you, but when I'm 50 I won't be needing maternity coverage nor coverage for when I see a baby doctor as a simple example.


Perhaps they can design a plan just for you! You think it's difficult now to set up one universal plan to help all, but now we have to design a different one for each person. I don't plan to have rickets, scoliosis, the black plague, or prostrate cancer, but I don't think I'll waste time trying to go through a list of thousands of maladies and decide what I want to have covered and expect each health plan to adapt to my whims.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I have Medicare and a Medicare Part B&D plan. My insurance provider has already confirmed that I haven't been dropped and sent me my Evidence of Covverage information that describes what my plan will cover in 2014 and includes any changes in what they cover now. I will even have lower copays for some services, mostly dental services. I will see a slight increase in copays for prescriptions, but just changing from $2.00 to a max of $8.00 for high cost, brand name medications that have no generic alternative yet.All other services are covered by my plan and have no copays at all.


joeysomma said:


> Do you have an employer plan or individual? We have not heard what will happen to the employer plans under ACA. If yours is a personal plan, has your insurance company sent a letter saying it will continue? They still have time to cancel it.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really jelun? You cannot tell me who should be responsible for the failed website for Obamacare? Who knew you could not possibly have that information. Amazing! It really is personal, isn't it?
> 
> Since you only get your info and talking points from people, stations, and blogs that don't report the *news*, I'm not surprised. Even still, you should be able to suggest who might be held responsible. Tell Jay Carney to give you a name to blame because you're not able to think of one yourself.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure Jehun was responding to your question about "actual insurance" whatever that means. In order to answer your question about what your actual insurance would be or cost you might have to answer personal questions that you might not like to give out on this forum. It was a simple response to a very nebulous question on your part.

We already have said that President Obama is very concerned about the ACA rollout and the buck always stops with the president. What do you want us to do, crucify the guy? I was reading where a similar problem ensued with the Medicare Part D rollout during the Bush administration, but rather than pick and pick and nag and nag and complain and complain and point fingers the Democrats pitched in to help get it functioning.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What in the world does the fact that people don't agree with each other about political issues in their countries have to do with remarking and even judging conservatives here? I'll bet Eve has taken a look at both sides in the US. I hope she'll read this post of mine and confirm her fairness.


As I am not a USA citizen and therefore do not vote in your elections I can look at both sides. I do not have to favour 'my party'. I can see good and bad in both parties, but what I do not like is people not looking out for the poor and the disadvantaged.

I have read a lot of USA history and probably know a lot of facts that many Americans do not know. These relate back to WW11 and even before. I have read about elections of various Presidents and how some of them were rigged. I have read about various political and industry leaders who supported ideals that were really not in accordance with mainstream USA feelings. I am also a human and as such of course I will choose to support one party more than another, based on the policies of that party. My daughter supports one political party in the US whilst I support the other. She tells me her support is not based on race or religion but on how she perceives their policies enacting on everyday society. This being so, she said she still does not support many of the actions of some members of that party. We also are on opposite sides in Australian politics. We do not come to blows but we do say we disagree and give reasons.

With regard to the health care in the US, I cannot understand why some people do not want to extend health care to the poor, the downtrodden and the homeless. These are people who need help.

I could comment a lot more, ask a lot more questions, but that is really beyond the scope of these pages. These questions would be better saved for a face to face conversation in order not to be misunderstood. Please remember Australians are a very outspoken people. We have a convict past and a lot of those convicts were not just prostitutes and pick pockets from the slums of London but were political prisoners from Ireland. We had one famous group of Irish convicts who escaped from Fremantle prison and board a US warship that was anchored offshore and then make their way to America and freedom. The authorities in Fremantle would not fire on the US warship or board the ship for fear of starting an international incident.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I hope you don't think I was trying to offend you by saying I thought you probably look at both sides of issues in the US that interest you. I apologize if you felt that way. Chalk it up topoor sentence structure. I think you're fair and have a lot of common sense, too.


EveMCooke said:


> As I am not a USA citizen and therefore do not vote in your elections I can look at both sides. I do not have to favour 'my party'. I can see good and bad in both parties, but what I do not like is people not looking out for the poor and the disadvantaged.
> 
> I have read a lot of USA history and probably know a lot of facts that many Americans do not know. These relate back to WW11 and even before. I have read about elections of various Presidents and how some of them were rigged. I have read about various political and industry leaders who supported ideals that were really not in accordance with mainstream USA feelings. I am also a human and as such of course I will choose to support one party more than another, based on the policies of that party. My daughter supports one political party in the US whilst I support the other. She tells me her support is not based on race or religion but on how she perceives their policies enacting on everyday society. This being so, she said she still does not support many of the actions of some members of that party. We also are on opposite sides in Australian politics. We do not come to blows but we do say we disagree and give reasons.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Perhaps they can design a plan just for you! You think it's difficult now to set up one universal plan to help all, but now we have to design a different one for each person. I don't plan to have rickets, scoliosis, the black plague, or prostrate cancer, but I don't think I'll waste time trying to go through a list of thousands of maladies and decide what I want to have covered and expect each health plan to adapt to my whims.


It's OK, Linda, I guess (wonder if this is even a woman) she doesn't understand that gynecological treatments are not just for the young. 
Here's hoping that she doesn't need obstetrics coverage...the poor child.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I hope you don't think I was trying to offend you by saying I thought you probably look at both sides of issues in the US that interest you. I apologize if you felt that way. Chalk it up topoor sentence structure. I think you're fair and have a lot of common sense, too.


No, I did not see you as trying to offend me and I did not take offence. You asked a legitimate question and I answered. No offence meant and no offence taken. We do not have to agree 100% of the time, that would make us little clones, or Stepford Wives. Do I have the correct title here?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> More right wing talking points which are just LIES!!! The Obama administration has cut the deficit by the fastest rate in 60 years!!
> 
> BUT more people are on unemployment, food stamps, etc because the economy tanked BEFORE President Obama took office.
> 
> ...


Our country was coming out of the recession when Obama was sworn in. His "stimulus" plan did nothing for the economy. It is stagnant. That is his doing. His administration is responsible for regulations and mandates on businesses that keep the economy in its current state - near life support. That keeps employment numbers high. It is also responsible for the growth of part time jobs as opposed to full time jobs. That is all on Obama, NOT Bush.


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## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ... and being *mandated* to have health insurance is different than buying car insurance with mandated minimums IF you chose to own a vehicle!
> 
> Those who had the minimum health insurance THEY chose for themselves are now being forced to buy more insurance they DON'T want nor often need.


If you have a vehicle, you have insurance. If you have a body, you have insurance. NO ONE will be without insurance that doesn't want to be. If your policy was dropped it was because it was a product that didn't cover as many things as was deigned (by a large group of people--not just President Obama) to be necessary for the majority of America. You will just pick a different and supposedly better insurance plan. How difficult is that? Probably a lot less difficult than spending several days complaining about it on this forum.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Perhaps they can design a plan just for you! You think it's difficult now to set up one universal plan to help all, but now we have to design a different one for each person. I don't plan to have rickets, scoliosis, the black plague, or prostrate cancer, but I don't think I'll waste time trying to go through a list of thousands of maladies and decide what I want to have covered and expect each health plan to adapt to my whims.


I agree, Olsonlinda. Some people seem to think that choosing an insurance plan is like ordering take-out food off a Chinese menu: one from column A, two from B, and so on and so on. Ridiculous.


----------



## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I take it you are a systems developer? You claim that producing with multiples of connectors is simple?
> That is just about the silliest thing I have read in a long time. CYA


Yes, I read where there are 5 million lines of code in the setup of the website. Who knows how many people were involved in the multiple contracts? Who knows how many Republicans were hired to help set this up? Who knows why KPG wants a single name for who is responsible?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Too bad--but those humpty-dumpty policies pedaled by the insurance companies are no longer going to cut it. The government sets legal minimums for car insurance and has since it became mandatory, and this is no different.


Those humpty dumpty policies are what many people wanted. If they don't want children, they don't need maternity care. They might just buy their own birth control items and not expect the government to pay for it. People do think like that. Some are adults, without children, therefore they don't need pediatric care. They have included in their policies what is important coverage for them based on their medical history. Now they are being denied the coverage they desire and can afford. Then there are the individuals that can only afford the humpty dumpty coverage, but will see their costs increase because they have to meet the requirements. The cheapest bronze plan might be too expensive for these individuals, yet they have no choice.


----------



## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just posted a reply on the thread saints and sinners,pointing out that the poster is incorrect in what they have said. I have said that the comments are racist and I think they are racist and uninformed.
> 
> I wonder if you will read my long two posts and see what is fact and what is fiction regarding what payments refugees and asylum seekers are supposed to be receiving from the Federal Government.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Those humpty dumpty policies are what many people wanted. If they don't want children, they don't need maternity care. They might just buy their own birth control items and not expect the government to pay for it. People do think like that. Some are adults, without children, therefore they don't need pediatric care. They have included in their policies what is important coverage for them based on their medical history. Now they are being denied the coverage they desire and can afford. Then there are the individuals that can only afford the humpty dumpty coverage, but will see their costs increase because they have to meet the requirements. The cheapest bronze plan might be too expensive for these individuals, yet they have no choice.


Nonsense. Very few of us can predict absolutely what sort of health care we'll need in our lifetime. Any woman who hasn't gone through menopause stands a chance of getting pregnant--even tube-tying and vasectomies aren't 100%. Some men get breast cancer. 15% of lung cancer patients are non-smokers. The list goes on and on--should I be excused from having to purchase mandatory automobile insurance because I've never had a speeding ticket in my life?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Our company just sent a letter to the employees - info about our healthcare insurance renewal. No change in coverage but policy went up 13% which is decent especially considering our insurance has not increased in 3 years.


Perhaps that will change in 2015 when corporate has to comply with the ACA's requirements.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Those humpty dumpty policies are what many people wanted. If they don't want children, they don't need maternity care. They might just buy their own birth control items and not expect the government to pay for it. People do think like that. Some are adults, without children, therefore they don't need pediatric care. They have included in their policies what is important coverage for them based on their medical history. Now they are being denied the coverage they desire and can afford. Then there are the individuals that can only afford the humpty dumpty coverage, but will see their costs increase because they have to meet the requirements. The cheapest bronze plan might be too expensive for these individuals, yet they have no choice.


Do you even know what a health insurance company is? 
What do you mean people who have health insurance might buy their own birth control and not have the government supply it?
Why would a person with health insurance expect to have the government pay for health care? 
Might be, could be, may be... There may be a phoenix around the corner. 
BTW, half the parents in the nation didn't WANT to get pregnant and didn't know that they were going to need maternity care. Who pays for that bill when they were too cheap to get it themselves?


----------



## olsonlinda1 (Sep 24, 2011)

Well, ladies and gentlemen all, I'm going to get off this topic. Good luck, everyone. Me--I just started taking blood pressure medicine and this topic just isn't helping the situation. 

I'll leave you all with one thought from my son:
When I make comments about why some people take information they get on the internet as gospel truth and don't look up the facts he says, "If you think you're right, you won't check." That goes for both sides. 
Soooo-
Please go to neutral, trusted sites (not politically motivated ones) and read as much as you can about the subject. 
And be kind to one another.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

What a flat out lie you just wrote! We were in so deep we all needed shovels. You should be ashamed. Bush should have let them fail. Look what he created with his bailout, more fat cats with big bonuses. Nothing in this country is too big to fail, even our government. Which the Republicans are doing their best to do, collapse our government so their fat cat friends can create a new one!



soloweygirl said:


> Our country was coming out of the recession when Obama was sworn in. His "stimulus" plan did nothing for the economy. It is stagnant. That is his doing. His administration is responsible for regulations and mandates on businesses that keep the economy in its current state - near life support. That keeps employment numbers high. It is also responsible for the growth of part time jobs as opposed to full time jobs. That is all on Obama, NOT Bush.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

olsonlinda1 said:


> If you have a vehicle, you have insurance. If you have a body, you have insurance. NO ONE will be without insurance that doesn't want to be. If your policy was dropped it was because it was a product that didn't cover as many things as was deigned (by a large group of people--not just President Obama) to be necessary for the majority of America. You will just pick a different and supposedly better insurance plan. How difficult is that? Probably a lot less difficult than spending several days complaining about it on this forum.


Your first 3 sentences are false. There are plenty of people who own automobiles that do not have insurance. There are plenty of people that do not have health insurance. There will still be millions of people that WILL BE without health insurance because they don't want it, don't want to pay for it or cannot afford the new regulations.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Your twisted logic is too silly to bother with. Sorry I tried. Erase that.


It is you, not I, that cannot follow a conversation. Hilarious that you stated that the Libs hate both Obama! :XD: Who knew! Oh, ya, give up on the 'logic' attempt dame, you miss by a mile on that regularly too.

*Priceless!*


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I see desperation coming from you knitpresentgifts. I have seen it in you and a couple of others who think as you do. There is no logic to your arguments. You can go online and dig up all the "FACTS" you want, and post them here, but it won't change a thing. And I can say in all honesty, that I have not read a single thing that jelun2 has written that is, in your words and I quote (Losing control so soon jelun?, end quote). Those are words of a desperate person. You haven't gotten a rise out of jelun2, and it is driving you to distraction. I don't often tell people this, but in your case I will make an exception....I believe you are the most foolish person I have ever come across in forums such as this.
> Now you go right ahead and say what a terrible, stupid, mean, rude, and ignorant person I am. Won't bother me a bit. That's the difference between you and me. It only hurts if you really care what the other person is saying to you, and I don't care. So you keep on beating that dead horse, and I'll watch, as you sink lower and lower in to what ever causes someone like you to brow beat others for no reason. IMHO, you believe you have some sort of superiority over ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. If you only realized how foolish you look.....I will pray for you. Because I don't wish your kind of anger on anyone. And I know deep inside, you don't want to be that way either. You just can't help yourself. God Bless!


Not even a good attempt by you to insult me. Tell me something you know instead of trying to run down anyone with whom you do not agree.

Anyone can read both your or my posts and see who is the fool. Oh, and BTW, stop copying my words and phrases, it isn't becoming. As I've said repeatedly, I would first have to accept your words to have value in order for anything you wish to say or insult me with to matter.

Have a great day! You desperately need one. Don't beat any horses please.

Thank you for God's blessing - back atchaya! My God blesses me profusely.

I think you make the fifth, or perhaps sixth, Lib who refuses to name the person responsible for the ObamaCare chaos and cannot answer my second question either. You offer only nonsense and insults. I'll keep hoping ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I meant to include Marilyn Tavenner, administrator of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services and the federal official who oversees new health-insurance exchanges as the other person who is responsible for the problems of the ACA website. I would rank her as more responsible for the botched website than the President and CGI.


MaidInBedlam said:


> Personally, I don't understand why we outsourced the job of the ACA website to a Canadian IT business. I'm not badmouthing Canadian business. I happen to think we should use US businesses whenever possible. "Made In America" means something to me. I suspect, but do not actually know, that CGI gave the lowest bid to build the ACA website and we're seeing why it would have been better to use a US company, to appeal to the many Americans who feel as I do about outsourcing, and why the cheapest company isn't the best one to choose, if CGI was the lowest bidder for the job . The President and those who chose CGI are responsible for the current state of the ACA website.
> 
> I have good health insureance. I get to keep it, and I don't want to change it after spending 13 years with the same insurer and care provider and having the same doctors for so long. It took some time at first to find the docs I felt confortable with, especially my PCP, and I dread the idea of having to go through that process again and am very relieved I don't have to.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Nonsense. Very few of us can predict absolutely what sort of health care we'll need in our lifetime. Any woman who hasn't gone through menopause stands a chance of getting pregnant--even tube-tying and vasectomies aren't 100%. Some men get breast cancer. 15% of lung cancer patients are non-smokers. The list goes on and on--should I be excused from having to purchase mandatory automobile insurance because I've never had a speeding ticket in my life?


That still doesn't negate the fact that we should be able to buy insurance based on our and our family's medical history. No, we can't predict what disease will may/may not get. We also can't predict that we won't be hit by a bus, shot in a robbery, drown, get into a car accident, etc. Any women that hasn't gone through menopause still does not necessarily need maternity care. Unless she decides to go ahead with the pregnancy, then she doesn't need maternity care, nor pediatric care either.

I don't purchase automobile insurance based on the fact I might get a speeding ticket. Should every homeowner be required to buy flood insurance even though they are not in flood zones? Quite possibly Sandy and Katrina victims would have a different opinion in hindsight.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL

READ THIS!


Global View 

The Unbearable Lightness of Obama

The president didn't know the NSA was spying on world leaders, but he's found time for at least 146 rounds of golf.

By 
Bret Stephens 

Oct. 28, 2013 7:08 p.m. ET

Is there a method to President Obama's style of leadership, his methods of decision-making, his habits of attention, oversight and follow-through? In recent months I've been keeping a file of stories that might suggest an answer. See what you think.

***

"President Barack Obama went nearly five years without knowing his own spies were bugging the phones of world leaders. Officials said the NSA has so many eavesdropping operations under way that it wouldn't have been practical to brief him on all of them.

"They added that the president was briefed on and approved of broader intelligence-collection 'priorities,' but that those below him make decisions about specific targets."

The Wall Street Journal, Oct. 28, 2013 


"HealthCare.gov is the highest-profile experiment yet in the Obama administration's effort to modernize government by using technology, with the site intended to become a user-friendly pathway to new health insurance options for millions of uninsured Americans.

"'This was the president's signature project and no one with the right technology experience was in charge,' said Bob Kocher, a former White House aide who helped draft the law."

The Wall Street Journal, Oct. 28, 2013 

"Tensions between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia have grown sharply in recent months. President Barack Obama authorized the CIA to provide limited arms to carefully vetted Syrian rebels, but it took months for the program to commence. . . .

"One Western diplomat described Saudi Arabia as eager to be a military partner in what was to have been the U.S.-led military strikes on Syria. As part of that, the Saudis asked to be given the list of military targets for the proposed strikes. The Saudis indicated they never got the information, the diplomat said."

The Wall Street Journal, Oct. 21, 2013 

"Besides the Syrian government's gains, there was mounting evidence that Mr. Assad's troops had repeatedly used chemical weapons against civilians.

"Even as the debate about arming the rebels took on a new urgency, Mr. Obama rarely voiced strong opinions during senior staff meetings. But current and former officials said his body language was telling: he often appeared impatient and disengaged while listening to the debate, sometimes scrolling through messages on his BlackBerry BB.T +2.46% or slouching and chewing gum."

 New York Times, NYT +1.44% Oct. 22, 2013 

"On Saturday, as the shutdown drama played out on Capitol Hill, President Obama played golf at Fort Belvoir in Virginia."

 Washington Post, WPO +2.32% Sept. 28, 2013 

"For French President François Hollande, it seemed like the perfect response: a lightning-quick strike on Syria to punish the government for an alleged chemical weapons attack.

"But with President Obama's surprise decision to ask Congress for a go-ahead on military action, Hollande has found himself embroiled in political controversy abroad and at home. Instead of vaunting Hollande as a warrior charging off to do battle, critics say he now looks more like a sidekick who was left in the lurch by his American ally."

Washington Post, Sept. 6, 2013 

"The essence of Eisenhower's hidden hand, of course, is that there was real work going on that people didn't know at the time. If that's true now, then Obama really is emulating Ike. If, on the other hand, he's simply doing nothing or very little, that would be passivity, not hidden-hand leadership."
Eisenhower biographer Jim Newton, quoted in New York Times, July 15, 2013 

"In polo shirt, shorts and sandals, President Obama headed to the golf course Friday morning with a couple of old friends, then flew to Camp David for a long weekend. Secretary of State John Kerry was relaxing at his vacation home in Nantucket.

"Aides said both men were updated as increasingly bloody clashes left dozens dead in Egypt, but from outward appearances they gave little sense that the Obama administration viewed the broader crisis in Cairo with great alarm."

New York Times, July 5, 2013 

"The president had a truly disturbing habit of funneling major foreign-policy decisions through a small cabal of relatively inexperienced White House advisors whose turf was strictly politics. Their primary concern was how any action in Afghanistan or the Middle East would play on the nightly news, or which talking point it would give Republicans."

 Vali Nasr, "The Dispensable Nation," April 2013 

"Mr. Obama's reluctance to put American forces on the ground during the fight, and his decision to keep America's diplomatic and C.I.A. presence minimal in post-Qaddafi Libya, may have helped lead the United States to miss signals and get caught unaware in the attack on the American mission in Benghazi. Military forces were too far from Libya's shores during the Sept. 11 attack to intervene."

New York Times, Nov. 17, 2012 

"For the people who go out, on to the edge, to represent our country, we believe that if we get in trouble, they're coming to get us, that our back is covered. To hear that it's not, that's a terrible, terrible experience."

 Gregory Hicks, former deputy chief of mission in Libya, on "60 Minutes," Oct. 27, 2013 

***

Call Mr. Obama's style indifferent, aloof or irresponsible, but a president who governs like this reaps the whirlwindif not for himself, then for his country.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> The liberals do not hate President Obama or Obamacare/ACA. Twisted questions over pages of posting will not make it different. Go on debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin without me.


Twisted your words and cannot spin the opposite way dame to get out of them? I'm sorry. You shouldn't give up trying though.

BTW: you should learn some new vocabulary and phrases instead of repeating mine. You'll remember more that way.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Stepford Wives is a great title for some folks who post here. i jst watched the remake a few days ago on TV. I thought you hadn't taken offense, but around here I think it's best to be sure.


EveMCooke said:


> No, I did not see you as trying to offend me and I did not take offence. You asked a legitimate question and I answered. No offence meant and no offence taken. We do not have to agree 100% of the time, that would make us little clones, or Stepford Wives. Do I have the correct title here?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Our country was coming out of the recession when Obama was sworn in. His "stimulus" plan did nothing for the economy. It is stagnant. That is his doing. His administration is responsible for regulations and mandates on businesses that keep the economy in its current state - near life support. That keeps employment numbers high. It is also responsible for the growth of part time jobs as opposed to full time jobs. That is all on Obama, NOT Bush.


People need to stop blaming Bush. It is all Obama.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not even a good attempt by you to insult me. Tell me something you know instead of trying to run down anyone with whom you do not agree.
> 
> Anyone can read both your or my posts and see who is the fool. Oh, and BTW, stop copying my words and phrases, it isn't becoming. As I've said repeatedly, I would first have to accept your words to have value in order for anything you wish to say or insult me with to matter.
> 
> ...


BRAVO! Well said!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> private industry and government have been outsourcing for a long time. We are not pushing education as they do in other countries and that will become an even greater problem in the future. Ever tried to have some problem with your computer taken care of via your Server or some private enterprise which you may have a service contract with? You always wind up with some foreigner, usually in Asia who is most difficult to understand.


If you pay higher fees and buy better equipment and service you wouldn't have such a problem as you continue to complain about. If you go cheap, you'll receive cheap. Spend more money if you want better.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Twisted your words and cannot spin the opposite way dame to get out of them? I'm sorry. You shouldn't give up trying though.
> 
> BTW: you should learn some new vocabulary and phrases instead of repeating mine. You'll remember more that way.


KPG,
I find them repeating me, too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Nonsense. Very few of us can predict absolutely what sort of health care we'll need in our lifetime. Any woman who hasn't gone through menopause stands a chance of getting pregnant--even tube-tying and vasectomies aren't 100%. Some men get breast cancer. 15% of lung cancer patients are non-smokers. The list goes on and on--should I be excused from having to purchase mandatory automobile insurance because I've never had a speeding ticket in my life?


susanmos2000
these folks constantly amaze me. Whenever I think they have reached the Zenith of dumb, they climb steeply beyond it. There seems to be no limit to their dumbness.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> Here in NYS , I've been paying for maternity coverage for years, and don't need it. I bought into a BC/BS policy last year even tho I have a pre-exisiting condition. No problem, they had to take me. I'm not sure, but I don't think ACA will affect me. I can't say for sure, but we already have high minimum standards. I received a letter from (?) that had a list of about 6 new insurance companies being available. BC/BS hasn't cancelled me. hmmm, now what did I do with that letter with the list on it. There are other reasons we already pay a high price in NYS for insurance and have for a long time. Well, those of us who buy individual policies. Tho I was able to purchase thru the Chamber of commerce and get the group rate of $576.00 just for myself. I have to take money from my IRA to pay for it. Along with property taxes, but I won't go into that here. Be thankful you don't lives where you are taxed like crazy. You wouldn't believe it. ugh. It'll be great to have a subsidy for a while.


I hear you. Those people who already had high quality coverage often will not be affected much by the ACA. Those who could only afford the minimum health insurance they decided upon are being gravely affected by the ACA. The very poor will receive something they've never had before but now will possess without paying a dime for it. Those whose insurance policies did not meet the higher minimum required standards of the ACA will suffer the most.

As you stated, 80% of all insurance buyers will be forced to pay higher premiums for the exact same coverage they had as the 30 million new policy holders' coverage must be paid for by the US taxpayers.

I pay an incredible amount of all taxes already and know I'll be paying more since the laws of the ACA along with all its new taxes will or have kicked in already.

It is very unfortunate you have to withdraw from your IRA to pay for health insurance. You'll most likely be paying a penalty besides paying premium taxes on that which you withdraw and obviously be without those funds in your retirement. (depending on your age and financial circumstances, of course). To make matters worse, you'll not receive anything greater for your financial suffering.

That is the worst thing about the ACA. More paid for less or nothing received for the high majority of all Americans. I never fell for Obama's lies, but a majority did.

A final point; insurance is always for something we never hope to experience of have need of, right, yet pay for if we want it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If you pay higher fees and buy better equipment and service you wouldn't have such a problem as you continue to complain about. If you go cheap, you'll receive cheap. Spend more money if you want better.


KPG
top of the line is what I ALWAYS go for without any exception. We however know that you buy cheap and sell high which you hope will make your buyers think that they get high quality. That is nothing but deception. Gotcha.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hear you. Those people who already had high quality coverage often will not be effected much by the ACA. Those who could only afford the minimum health insurance they decided upon are being gravely affected by the ACA. The very poor will receive something they've never had before but now will possess without paying a dime for it. Those whose insurance policies did not meet the higher minimum required standards of the ACA will suffer the most.
> 
> As you stated, 80% of all insurance buyers will be forced to pay higher premiums for the exact same coverage they had as the 30 million new policy holders' coverage must be paid for by the US taxpayers.
> 
> ...


KPG
it almost sounds as if you have abandoned your Religion. You are getting nastier and nastier towards those who need a helping hand.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> into name calling full force again I see while Bible in hand. What a Christian Lady you are.


Stating facts is not name calling Ingried and my post had facts and no called names. Please do try to understand what you read. BTW: I haven't a Bible in hand *a single time * I posted my thoughts on KP.

Thank you for recognizing I am a Christian Lady. I appreciate your comment. :-D


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Stating facts is not name calling Ingried and my post had facts and no called names. Please do try to understand what you read. BTW: I haven't a Bible in hand *a single time * I posted my thoughts on KP.
> 
> Thank you for recognizing I am a Christian Lady. I appreciate your comment. :-D


KPG
I guess calling someone a Liar is a pleasant name in your good book. Oviously you do not understand what I write. Are you serious thinking that I see you as a Christian Lady? You never behave like a Christian nor as a Lady.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> If you read closely, you will see that she also thinks and has her allies convinced that she is superior to them.


Is English your first language? It is a shame you are not capable of writing a properly structured sentence in the English language. If you could, perhaps you have a better understanding of what others write as they post their thoughts on KP.

You have no idea what my 'allies' nor what I think as evidenced by your posted words.

I do know you convinced me of nothing other than your ignorance on most of the topics on which you write and your inability to listen to and learn from others.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What pisses me off the most is that the administration knew this and kept lying up until the law was passed and implementation started. Now the back peddling starts.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Well get those family and friends to offer their services.


Obama doesn't hire anyone that doesn't kiss up to him. He'd never hire those who are capable of doing their job and be willing to be held accountable for their promises.

My family and friends have integrity and moral character.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Nobody has lost a doc yet, except for those few lucky folks who have lost those reported here as cutting out because they are chickenchits and can't cope with the real world.
> 
> Has anyone who has reported that they are losing their health care plans said that they like them? The one example I focus on is that from the LA Times. It mentioned that she is concerned about the cost, I don't remember a thing about her liking it.


Wow, you've already spoken to each of the thousands of prior insured who have already lost their insurance and/or doctor?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Perhaps they can design a plan just for you! You think it's difficult now to set up one universal plan to help all, but now we have to design a different one for each person. I don't plan to have rickets, scoliosis, the black plague, or prostrate cancer, but I don't think I'll waste time trying to go through a list of thousands of maladies and decide what I want to have covered and expect each health plan to adapt to my whims.


Guess the joke is still on and is you since I've always chosen a plan that is best suited to me. I never said I wanted or agreed to one universal plan to help all. That is the Socialists', Communists' Dems' and your idea, not mine.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> If you have a vehicle, you have insurance. If you have a body, you have insurance. NO ONE will be without insurance that doesn't want to be. If your policy was dropped it was because it was a product that didn't cover as many things as was deigned (by a large group of people--not just President Obama) to be necessary for the majority of America. You will just pick a different and supposedly better insurance plan. How difficult is that? Probably a lot less difficult than spending several days complaining about it on this forum.


Boy do you live in La La land  ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> ...


Thank you, Lukelucy for posting this info. I am not looking forward to the whirl-wind consequences.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Yes, I read where there are 5 million lines of code in the setup of the website. Who knows how many people were involved in the multiple contracts? Who knows how many Republicans were hired to help set this up? Who knows why KPG wants a single name for who is responsible?


I listed two names, a choice of *two* names, asking to whom the responsibility rests. Not one Lib can make a choice between two names nor tell me another name if not one of two was appropriate.

You'd think a Lib could figure that much out. But NOOOOOO. They'd all prefer to moan and complain about Bush and insult every KP poster and/or Republican. Frankly, so many promises made and broken, the Dems should crawl into their respective holes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> I find them repeating me, too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


What would they do without us ... :-D

Oh, wait, they did elect Obama twice without our help which is why we are in the mess we are in presently ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Cynthia. I've heard far too much talk from the conservatives about how they're simply waiting for the "Obamacare house of cards" to fall and how delighted they will be when that happens.
> Gee--imagine wanting to dance in the streets if millions and millions of formerly uninsured Americans suddenly lose the coverage they just signed up for. What kind of person would take pleasure in such a thing? They are heartless and self-absorbed, as you noted--but on a pathological level.


And the republicans in Washington are just as bad, if not worse because they have the ability to change things and choose not to. They were an entirely different group of people when the unfunded Part D was introduced and having trouble. The biggest difference then was the democrats worked with them for the good of the country. Republicans just don't respond that way. It is their way or the highway. The good thing is that a lot of the republicans should be on that highway, heading home after the next election.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> top of the line is what I ALWAYS go for without any exception. We however know that you buy cheap and sell high which you hope will make your buyers think that they get high quality. That is nothing but deception. Gotcha.


If you are talking to those who do not speak a language you understand, you pay for cheap. You've told us before where you bought your computer set-up, so don't go bragging now about the money you spent. No one 'buys' it! 

I have no idea what you keep blabbing about with 'my' buyers, but don't worry your sorry little head about me Ingried. I'm doing just fine. Money and numbers are no worries of mine. Gotcha and Got'em!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> I guess calling someone a Liar is a pleasant name in your good book. Oviously you do not understand what I write. Are you serious thinking that I see you as a Christian Lady? You never behave like a Christian nor as a Lady.


Obama is a liar and even his spokesperson admitted same recently. That is a FACT not a lie or calling someone a name. Turn on any credible news journalist and you'll hear the truth and facts.

Why did you tell me I'm a Christian Lady if you didn't mean it? Another lie of yours?

Oh, Ingried, you really must stop with your nonsense and lies and start speaking the truth and acting nicely towards others.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If you are talking to those who do not speak a language you understand, you pay for cheap. You've told us before where you bought your computer set-up, so don't go bragging now about the money you spent. No one 'buys' it!
> 
> I have no idea what you keep blabbing about with 'my' buyers, but don't worry your sorry little head about me Ingried. I'm doing just fine. Money and numbers are no worries of mine.


No doubt--you have ten fingers and ten toes on which to count, don't you? Why would you need anything more to keep track of your profits?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't you get the feeling that some want to crucify the guy and then burn the cross?



olsonlinda1 said:


> I'm pretty sure Jehun was responding to your question about "actual insurance" whatever that means. In order to answer your question about what your actual insurance would be or cost you might have to answer personal questions that you might not like to give out on this forum. It was a simple response to a very nebulous question on your part.
> 
> We already have said that President Obama is very concerned about the ACA rollout and the buck always stops with the president. What do you want us to do, crucify the guy? I was reading where a similar problem ensued with the Medicare Part D rollout during the Bush administration, but rather than pick and pick and nag and nag and complain and complain and point fingers the Democrats pitched in to help get it functioning.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Yarnlady, The hijackers in the September 11 attacks.
> 
> In the 9/11 attacks there were 19 men affiliated with al-Qaeda, and 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. Others were from Egypt, Lebanon, and the UAE. The hijackers were organized into four teams, each led by a pilot-trained hijacker with four "muscle hijackers" who were trained to help subdue the pilots, passengers, and crew.
> 
> You my dear are wrong.


Dearest Dam no not wrong you must understand where and what I mean dearest.

Yes dearest they were of Saudi birth but were not claimed by their country or goverment dearest.

You must know dearest that the Saudi goverment also did not claim them as living in their country. They were Islamic terrorist trained in another country . Osama bin Landen was also from Saudi Arabia but was not living in his country when he became a terrororist.

Do you dearest why the United States Goverement did not go out of their way to announce this? Because they also knew that these Terrororist though born in Saudi Arabia were no longer living in Saudi Arabia when Al Qaeda attack the Twin Towers. .

And Dearest you really must know that because Saudi Arabia lends this country money and sells us oil they are our allies in the mid east. So Dearest I really would ask you to please tell me how I am wrong???

You seem to want to find fault Dearest Dame Mary but wish you would understand what I posted and meant.

As you posted other things that I explain to you Dearest with out going the Dear root Dearest you may want to check before you dearest tell me I am wrong as you dearest were wrong too.

Now I bid you ado dearest. I know dearest you will post off to me again. But dearest I expect no less from you. 
Tat Tat dearest.

24


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


You didn't believe him before, on that or anything else so don't worry your pretty little head about it. I believe him now, but I sure didn't believe Bush and Cheney when they went to Iraq. Sounds to me like those wonderful big insurance companies were selling worthless policies to those people. Did you worry about that? Did you worry about all the people without any health insurance? Would you have worried about them if the republicans had been successful in de-funding Obamacare. My guess is no, it is all about winning for the republicans and to hell with the people that get hurt.

This is what a Nevada state lawmaker said:

A Nevada assemblyman came under fire Monday after a YouTube video surfaced in which he told a Republican gathering he would vote to allow slavery if that is what his constituents wanted him to do.

If thats what they wanted, Id have to hold my nose  theyd probably have to hold a gun to my head, but yeah, Assemblyman Jim Wheeler told members of the Storey County Republican Party at a meeting in August.

Then he changed his mind and tried to make it go away:

If my constituents wanted to do something as outlandish as bring back an abhorrent system, then I simply couldnt represent them anymore. They would remove me from office, or Id have to resign.

Guess that outreach thing isn't working, is it? They just keep letting their true feelings come out.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

olsonlinda1 said:


> If you have a vehicle, you have insurance. If you have a body, you have insurance. NO ONE will be without insurance that doesn't want to be. If your policy was dropped it was because it was a product that didn't cover as many things as was deigned (by a large group of people--not just President Obama) to be necessary for the majority of America. You will just pick a different and supposedly better insurance plan. How difficult is that? Probably a lot less difficult than spending several days complaining about it on this forum.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> So if they are not "friends" or at least on good terms, they will plot more against us. It would be worse. I find it irrational to think that you would not want good terms with a country. One does not have to be a "friend" to a country. Just get along. But, that figures the way people treat people on this site. Obama is having trouble working with other countries. Just another example of his ability to be a president.


Did Bush have trouble working with Iraq?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Is English your first language? It is a shame you are not capable of writing a properly structured sentence in the English language. If you could, perhaps you have a better understanding of what others write as they post their thoughts on KP.
> 
> You have no idea what my 'allies' nor what I think as evidenced by your posted words.
> 
> I do know you convinced me of nothing other than your ignorance on most of the topics on which you write and your inability to listen to and learn from others.


KPG,

Bullies. I do not read or answer them. Waste of my life.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you, Lukelucy for posting this info. I am not looking forward to the whirl-wind consequences.


Neither am I.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obama is a liar and even his spokesperson admitted same recently. That is a FACT not a lie or calling someone a name. Turn on any credible news journalist and you'll hear the truth and facts.
> 
> Why did you tell me I'm a Christian Lady if you didn't mean it? Another lie of yours?
> 
> Oh, Ingried, you really must stop with your nonsense and lies and start speaking the truth and acting nicely towards others.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> I find them repeating me, too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You just repeated my "Bravo! Well said."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Will she be spending the same about of time with each patient as before? Will she be overtired and, therefore, not "up to par" some days? This all affects one's care. I am sure she is a doctor because of her love of helping people. How can she help people when she is overworked?


I would say since you know nothing about her or her practice, let her decide what is best. I'm sure she can make the correct decisions for herself and her patients. You just love to slam Obamacare in anyway you can. Now the Drs will be too tired and therefor not "up to par" some days. Give it a rest.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am all too aware of how the Middle East hates us. I heard it first hand overseas. That was about 35 years ago. Could not believe my ears. There is a basic, fundamental hate for the US. That does not mean that we need to make it worse.


And do you think invading Iraq might have made it worse?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You just repeated my "Bravo! Well said."


I think the dodo Carroll spoke of has just come forward and identified herself, Dame. Wonder how long she can keep trotting in circles?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Dumpling, Why would the Saudi government 'claim' the hijackers as their own? We see things much differently.



theyarnlady said:


> Dearest Dam no not wrong you must understand where and what I mean dearest.
> 
> Yes dearest they were of Saudi birth but were not claimed by their country or goverment dearest.
> 
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - again! Another Liberal admits that Liberals *hate* Obama. I cannot believe my eyes ... * and * they hate Obamacare too! Good golly - what a morning this has become!
> 
> :lol: Finally, some honesty from the Liberals ... and from NJG who repeatedly reports she'll stay away from the open KP threads and retreat only to the Liberal exclusive threads. My goodness, the world is a-changing. The Liberals are beginning to see the light!


OMG, you are pathetic. Time for you to go back to school and learn how to read. When did I report that I was going to stay away from open KP threads and where are there liberal exclusive threads? You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said. I repeat, go back to school. I saw the light a long time ago when I became a democrat.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> The question is - do mirrors lie?
> 
> Well, here are several answers to consider.
> 
> ...


I'm back home alive & kicking! The mirror thing was meant to be funny but guess you didn't see it that way.

Not going to post any ugly reply to you as we can be different but can enjoy crafts equally. Evidently, politics is not something we will agree about.

I'm not angry at anyone at the moment so why can't you just enjoy the pictures as all are meant to make people laugh or think about the situation. You are not my enemy & I hope you don't plan for me to be yours.

I did not take your reply as a slam about my race so we won't go to that place.

KP is world wide so I would love to know about your country with pictures from someone who lives there rather than doing an online search. Your input would be most informative.

This is me talking:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Did Bush have trouble working with Iraq?


What happened to the sweet children you have had as your Avatar for so long? They sure were cute!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> What happened to the sweet children you have had as your Avatar for so long? They sure were cute!


There are black hearted men there now.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Another one of your loveable and sweet comments to fellow KPers. You have such a Christian way of expressing your feelings about other KPers. Perhaps this is how you wish others to see you.


Evie, why must you respond to me as this was not for you to read nor reply?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG said: Why should anyone be part of any party that cannot acknowledge reality?


I should be asking you that question. The ACA is the law of the land and how many times has your party tried to repeal it? Something like 47. I think. The republican party thinks they can continue to grow without including minorities and sometimes even women. The republican party wants to cut programs for the poor so they can give more tax cuts to the wealthy and subsidies to big farmers and big oil and they are doing all of this while trying to claim they are Christians. Now that is reality.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I see knitpresentgifts & Lukelucy are awake........and the race is on. :roll:


Hay, why leave me out as I post pictures that everyone twists them into something different.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> There are black hearted men there now.


Don't they have "red" hearts as I do?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> KPG said: Why should anyone be part of any party that cannot acknowledge reality?
> 
> I should be asking you that question. The ACA is the law of the land and how many times has your party tried to repeal it? Something like 47. I think. The republican party thinks they can continue to grow without including minorities and sometimes even women. The republican party wants to cut programs for the poor so they can give more tax cuts to the wealthy and subsidies to big farmers and big oil and they are doing all of this while trying to claim they are Christians. Now that is reality.


Obo has cut food stamps as it was on our news where the people were fussing as they cannot get by after the cut--so it was recommended the people go to food pantries. Why did he see fit to cut their food?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> OMG, you are pathetic. Time for you to go back to school and learn how to read. When did I report that I was going to stay away from open KP threads and where are there liberal exclusive threads? You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said. I repeat, go back to school. I saw the light a long time ago when I became a democrat.


Hello!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The yarn lady said: But when seven people who do not have any knowledege of medicine, nor understand treatments I feel they should not be making medical decisions about what should and shouldn't be allowed. I would perfer that someone with medical knowledge be put on this committee.

So has it been alright with you that the big insurance companies have been allowed to make those decisions instead?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Obo has cut food stamps as it was on our news where the people were fussing as they cannot get by after the cut--so it was recommended the people go to food pantries. Why did he see fit to cut their food?


As usual you have it wrong, just as with the temporary tax cuts these were temporary fixes to make life easier for a short time because there were so many people out of work for extended periods. It was never meant to be permanent. 
I am not sure that I believe it is time for this assistance to be curtailed. I don't get to make that decision.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Perhaps they can design a plan just for you! You think it's difficult now to set up one universal plan to help all, but now we have to design a different one for each person. I don't plan to have rickets, scoliosis, the black plague, or prostrate cancer, but I don't think I'll waste time trying to go through a list of thousands of maladies and decide what I want to have covered and expect each health plan to adapt to my whims.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Our country was coming out of the recession when Obama was sworn in. His "stimulus" plan did nothing for the economy. It is stagnant. That is his doing. His administration is responsible for regulations and mandates on businesses that keep the economy in its current state - near life support. That keeps employment numbers high. It is also responsible for the growth of part time jobs as opposed to full time jobs. That is all on Obama, NOT Bush.


His stimulus did a lot for the economy, and we did not start to come out of the recession till June of 09. The job loss continued after Obama was sworn in. The stimulus helped improve things, but there should have been a jobs bill passed and the republicans refused to do that. They say they are for jobs, but have proven that isn't true. The republicans have blocked everything he has tried to do, since then. Do you not listen to the news and hear them say what their goal is? Remember all he can do is ask congress to vote on a bill to pass it so he can sign it. The house in particular has done nothing. Because of what the big banks did to our economy, I think they need some regulation. Even Bush knows he is better to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the limelight. He has done enough damage. Congressional republicans are at an all time low in likeability.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

olsonlinda1 said:


> Yes, I read where there are 5 million lines of code in the setup of the website. Who knows how many people were involved in the multiple contracts? Who knows how many Republicans were hired to help set this up? Who knows why KPG wants a single name for who is responsible?


I also heard a congressman say that there wasn't enough money appropriated for the web site set up, but the republicans blocked it, of course.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Evie, why must you respond to me as this was not for you to read nor reply?


This one of my favorite things. Someone posts something here, where everyone can read and in a topic any KP member can participate in and then gives the totally ridiculous remark you made to Eve. Keep up the good work.:XD: :XD:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> What a flat out lie you just wrote! We were in so deep we all needed shovels. You should be ashamed. Bush should have let them fail. Look what he created with his bailout, more fat cats with big bonuses. Nothing in this country is too big to fail, even our government. Which the Republicans are doing their best to do, collapse our government so their fat cat friends can create a new one!


Yes, collapse the government so everything can be privatized. Wouldn't the repubs like that? Then we can live in an oligarchy, they would be thrilled.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It is you, not I, that cannot follow a conversation. Hilarious that you stated that the Libs hate both Obama! :XD: Who knew! Oh, ya, give up on the 'logic' attempt dame, you miss by a mile on that regularly too.
> 
> *Priceless!*


And you lie, cause no one said we hated President Obama, and I didn't know there were two of him. [hate both Obama} You are strange.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People need to stop blaming Bush. It is all Obama.


OH, HELL NO. IT WAS BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS THAT CAUSED THIS RECESSION.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There are plenty of people who own automobiles that do not have insurance.


Oh dear I do hope that is NOT true, in fact it is plain stupid not to have automobile insurance. What happend if they have an accident and wipe out another car, an expensive car? Who pays the the innocent driver to have his car replaced? What happens if their car is totalled or stolen? Even minor accidents result in huge repair bills. At least you should have third party, fire and theft. We have compulsory third party, included with the vehicle registration fee. My son's renewal in front of me ..... 12 months...licence fee 123.80. Insurance 231.86. Gst on insurance 23.19. Stamp duty on insurance 25.50. Recording fee 13.05. Total 417.40 and the third party nsurance does not cover your medical bills if you are at fault. Automobile insurance on his car is 85.00 a month, guaranteed replacement value. He paid slightly extra to have the compulsory levy removed and he is on maximum no claim bonus. A better statement would be 'if you cannot afford car insurance you cannot afford to own a car', simple. Health care insurance is something else again. We have, and pay according to our earnings, medicare. It does not cover dental, glasses, ambulance and several other extras. It does cover maternity needs. it cover hospitalization in a public hospital and there is a waiting list for non essential surgery. Urgent needs are receive immediate surgery. You can take out private insurance for private hospital and being able to choose your surgeon or specialist. private health insurance offers a range of premiums and you can pick and choose your options. Some offer four free options, such as gym membership, dental, glasses, ambulance,but basically with private insurance you get what you pay for. If you earn over a certain amount you must take out private insurance or pay an extra medicare levy. Having said that, a lot of people with private insurance still choose a public hospital, especially if it is a teaching hospital. Unfortunately our public hospitals do need extra beds.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What would they do without us ... :-D
> 
> Oh, wait, they did elect Obama twice without our help which is why we are in the mess we are in presently ...


And Bush was also elected twice, without our help and one of those was by the supreme court. If there had not been an electoral college, he would not have even been elected. He did not win the popular vote. He took us down this hole and he never should have been in office.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


Does anyone here understand that the 2 million people who are receiving cancellations of their current health insurance are losing their insurance because it was crap insurance? There are now standards that have to be met and those policies or companies selling poor insurance with high deductibles, etc., can no longer exist. The ACA doesn't provide those kinds of policies. They offer better quality insurance with higher standards. Again, I don't think Obamacare is the answer to all our healthcare problems. We need a single-payer system like Medicare. Also, the government itself didn't actually build the website themselves, they hired a company to do it. And, as all you conservatives out there know, there isn't a lot of government spending going on these days. If you do something "on the cheap" you might get an inferior product.
The rollout of The ACA has been disastrous. Let's get it fixed instead of saying over and over "it's a train wreck." Can't we apply ourselves as a country and try to get this thing going? And remember, we're all paying taxes and all our taxes don't go towards paying for things we love. Need I mention 2 unnecessary wars? Let's get on with it and stop all the crying and gnashing of teeth.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh dear I do hope that is NOT true, in fact it is plain stupid not to have automobile insurance. What happend if they have an accident and wipe out another car, an expensive car? Who pays the the innocent driver to have his car replaced? What happens if their car is totalled or stolen? Even minor accidents result in huge repair bills. At least you should have third party, fire and theft. We have compulsory third party, included with the vehicle registration fee. My son's renewal in front of me ..... 12 months...licence fee 123.80. Insurance 231.86. Gst on insurance 23.19. Stamp duty on insurance 25.50. Recording fee 13.05. Total 417.40 and the third party nsurance does not cover your medical bills if you are at fault. Automobile insurance on his car is 85.00 a month, guaranteed replacement value. He paid slightly extra to have the compulsory levy removed and he is on maximum no claim bonus. A better statement would be 'if you cannot afford car insurance you cannot afford to own a car', simple. Health care insurance is something else again. We have, and pay according to our earnings, medicare. It does not cover dental, glasses, ambulance and several other extras. It does cover maternity needs. it cover hospitalization in a public hospital and there is a waiting list for non essential surgery. Urgent needs are receive immediate surgery. You can take out private insurance for private hospital and being able to choose your surgeon or specialist. private health insurance offers a range of premiums and you can pick and choose your options. Some offer four free options, such as gym membership, dental, glasses, ambulance,but basically with private insurance you get what you pay for. If you earn over a certain amount you must take out private insurance or pay an extra medicare levy. Having said that, a lot of people with private insurance still choose a public hospital, especially if it is a teaching hospital. Unfortunately our public hospitals do need extra beds.


It is much more important for young people to go out and pay $11.00 for a drink than to pay for health insurance.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If you are talking to those who do not speak a language you understand, you pay for cheap. You've told us before where you bought your computer set-up, so don't go bragging now about the money you spent. No one 'buys' it!
> 
> I have no idea what you keep blabbing about with 'my' buyers, but don't worry your sorry little head about me Ingried. I'm doing just fine. Money and numbers are no worries of mine. Gotcha and Got'em!


KPG
Now I take the liberty to tell everyone that you are a Liar. I have never said anything about where and from whom I bought my equipment. I NEVER buy cheap as you do. Look at the quality of your stuff, there is little or none. As to your attaching names to People who they are not, it is my hope that Obamacare will finally put you into treatment. You difinitely have some issues that need to be dealt with and have been neglected for all too long. How many people am I now and how many others are me? You must be keeping track of it, I a sure. Another fetish of yours. My goodness you are really suffering.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Does anyone here understand that the 2 million people who are receiving cancellations of their current health insurance are losing their insurance because it was crap insurance? There are now standards that have to be met and those policies or companies selling poor insurance with high deductibles, etc., can no longer exist. The ACA doesn't provide those kinds of policies. They offer better quality insurance with higher standards. Again, I don't think Obamacare is the answer to all our healthcare problems. We need a single-payer system like Medicare. Also, the government itself didn't actually build the website themselves, they hired a company to do it. And, as all you conservatives out there know, there isn't a lot of government spending going on these days. If you do something "on the cheap" you might get an inferior product.
> The rollout of The ACA has been disastrous. Let's get it fixed instead of saying over and over "it's a train wreck." Can't we apply ourselves as a country and try to get this thing going? And remember, we're all paying taxes and all our taxes don't go towards paying for things we love. Need I mention 2 unnecessary wars? Let's get on with it and stop all the crying and gnashing of teeth.


Yes, alcameron, we all understand it. Those of us who are moderate and liberal say that we understand it, tell it to the world. Those on the right end of the political spectrum keep pretending that they are not bright enough to understand that ... it must be that they are pretending, right?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Twisted your words and cannot spin the opposite way dame to get out of them? I'm sorry. You shouldn't give up trying though.
> 
> BTW: you should learn some new vocabulary and phrases instead of repeating mine. You'll remember more that way.


KPG
on the liquid again. Go correct your buddy theyarnlady, what a wealth of language she displays without fail.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Obo has cut food stamps as it was on our news where the people were fussing as they cannot get by after the cut--so it was recommended the people go to food pantries. Why did he see fit to cut their food?


If there has been a cut in food stamps, it has come from congress. He doesn't have the ability to make those kinds of cuts by himself. I can guarantee you that any cuts in food stamps have come from republicans.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I see desperation coming from you knitpresentgifts. I have seen it in you and a couple of others who think as you do. There is no logic to your arguments. You can go online and dig up all the "FACTS" you want, and post them here, but it won't change a thing. And I can say in all honesty, that I have not read a single thing that jelun2 has written that is, in your words and I quote (Losing control so soon jelun?, end quote). Those are words of a desperate person. You haven't gotten a rise out of jelun2, and it is driving you to distraction. I don't often tell people this, but in your case I will make an exception....I believe you are the most foolish person I have ever come across in forums such as this.
> Now you go right ahead and say what a terrible, stupid, mean, rude, and ignorant person I am. Won't bother me a bit. That's the difference between you and me. It only hurts if you really care what the other person is saying to you, and I don't care. So you keep on beating that dead horse, and I'll watch, as you sink lower and lower in to what ever causes someone like you to brow beat others for no reason. IMHO, you believe you have some sort of superiority over ANYONE who doesn't agree with you. If you only realized how foolish you look.....I will pray for you. Because I don't wish your kind of anger on anyone. And I know deep inside, you don't want to be that way either. You just can't help yourself. God Bless!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you for the above, you saved my fingers from having to say the same thing. She does believe she is a superior being, she is intelligent. She honestly believes that the rest of us are gibbering idiots, gullible fools who need to be pitied for their ignorance. remember......where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise. It definitely applies in her case.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dear Dumpling, Why would the Saudi government 'claim' the hijackers as their own? We see things much differently.


Dearest dumbpling wrong again they were born in Saudi Arabia but did not live in Saudi Arabia. Just because you are born in one country and you live in another country and denounce that country for not follow Islamic al-Qadea movement does not make you part of that country any more. Dearest.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Does anyone here understand that the 2 million people who are receiving cancellations of their current health insurance are losing their insurance because it was crap insurance? There are now standards that have to be met and those policies or companies selling poor insurance with high deductibles, etc., can no longer exist. The ACA doesn't provide those kinds of policies. They offer better quality insurance with higher standards. Again, I don't think Obamacare is the answer to all our healthcare problems. We need a single-payer system like Medicare. Also, the government itself didn't actually build the website themselves, they hired a company to do it. And, as all you conservatives out there know, there isn't a lot of government spending going on these days. If you do something "on the cheap" you might get an inferior product.
> The rollout of The ACA has been disastrous. Let's get it fixed instead of saying over and over "it's a train wreck." Can't we apply ourselves as a country and try to get this thing going? And remember, we're all paying taxes and all our taxes don't go towards paying for things we love. Need I mention 2 unnecessary wars? Let's get on with it and stop all the crying and gnashing of teeth.


Yes, lets get it fixed like the Part D drug plan was fixed. That wasn't even funded when Bush did it and the democrats still worked with him for the good of the country.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes, lets get it fixed like the Part D drug plan was fixed. That wasn't even funded when Bush did it and the democrats still worked with him for the good of the country.


that's not what I heard on NBC news tonight. Nor CBS same story about people being dump by their companies and want to keep the insurance they had like Obama promise. But they will not be able too.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

16


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> *When did I report that I was going to stay away from open KP threads and where are there liberal exclusive threads? * You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said.


Here's a few reminders of your posts: I think you know that POV and LOLL are threads where mainly Liberals post exclusively. Those are the threads were you made your comments below. Have a good day!

POV #2	Sep 6, 13 16:56:33
Designer1234 wrote:
Hi everyone -- I thought there was some hope of ignoring the nastiness -- I have been off line except for the workshops for the past 3 or 4 days, and have just caught up.



NJG said:


> It was a good idea -- but the nastiness and personal insults are still pervasive. I guess the promises made were not realistic and certainly not followed.
> 
> I wish you all well. Still threats of reporting - still insults.
> It was a nice try -- *but not worth it any more. *
> ...


POV #2	Sep 6, 13 15:35:42


NJG said:


> The best answer to ignorance is silance. *Please, lets not answer them.* It accomplishes nothing.


LOLL #4	Aug 27, 13 12:32:48


NJG said:


> It can be done. *I don't go to any of those other sites anymore * and * I don't usually comment on them *when they invade us. I think invade is the right word there, like a bunch of locust.


L.O.L.L. #3	Aug 16, 13 20:56:38



NJG said:


> *The best way to handle posts like that is to just scroll right on by.*


L.O.L.L. #3 Aug 12, 13 18:55:26


NJG said:


> *I know I have said I wouldn't respond and then did, but I am capable to doing it. If everyone makes that decision and sticks together we can do it. When she posts a lot of garbage, I don't even read them. I can ignore her. *


 Aug 12, 13 18:37:41


NJG said:


> Is there someone managing this forum that is able to delete her posts so we don't have to deal with her. The only other option we have is for *everyone to not answer her. We have to just ignore her. Hard to do, but we must.*


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> That is nice that that it is required and you need to pay it to get the license. What happens when someone does not pay it and drives a car with none of what you have listed. And they hit you? They are dead broke. Do you have to pay for your own injuries and car repair.
> 
> In Wisconsin, liability insurance is required now , but that does not stop people from driving without insurance or without a license. My SIL was hit, 22 fractures 2 weeks in ICU and 3 months in nursing home. The other driver had no insurance and owned little more than the clothes on his back. Thank goodness his health insurance, retired military, paid the bills, and his employer let him work by computer from the nursing home. The government promised him the insurance for the 20+ years he served our country in the military.


You cannot drive an unlicenced car, it will not have valid licence plates. You will be sent to gaol for driving an unlicenced vehicle. On board computers in Police cars scan licence plates and check automatically for unlicenced vehicles. In the case of an unlicenced driver hitting you, you are still covered by the compulsory third part insurance cover on your car. Medicare also covers you if you are injured in a vehicle accident and it is your fault. Third party does not cover you if you caused the accident.

The Insurance Commission is obliged by law to cover the medical claims of an injured third party even if the driver who caused the accident is driving an unlicensed vehicle. The driver who caused the accident will not have their medical expenses met and will receive free treatment in a public hospital. Compulsory third part insurance is for personal cover it does not dover damage to vehicles.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Soloweygirl.......did you know it's illegal to drive a vehicle without having at least liability insurance? So those, plenty of people who you say own automobiles and don't have insurance, are either not driving them, or are breaking the law. 
And those people who chose not to purchase health insurance will have to pay the penalty....and the rest of us will have to pay their medical bills because they don't want to. I'm not saying all people, just some people.....For those who haven't been paying for their own insurance, it's been a cheap way to live, but frankly "I" can't afford their medical bills as well as my own. So as far as I'm concerned, it's time they pick up the slack, act like responsible adults and pay their own way in life.



soloweygirl said:


> Your first 3 sentences are false. There are plenty of people who own automobiles that do not have insurance. There are plenty of people that do not have health insurance. There will still be millions of people that WILL BE without health insurance because they don't want it, don't want to pay for it or cannot afford the new regulations.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh dear I do hope that is NOT true, in fact it is plain stupid not to have automobile insurance. What happend if they have an accident and wipe out another car, an expensive car? Who pays the the innocent driver to have his car replaced? What happens if their car is totalled or stolen? Even minor accidents result in huge repair bills. At least you should have third party, fire and theft. We have compulsory third party, included with the vehicle registration fee. My son's renewal in front of me ..... 12 months...licence fee 123.80. Insurance 231.86. Gst on insurance 23.19. Stamp duty on insurance 25.50. Recording fee 13.05. Total 417.40 and the third party nsurance does not cover your medical bills if you are at fault. Automobile insurance on his car is 85.00 a month, guaranteed replacement value. He paid slightly extra to have the compulsory levy removed and he is on maximum no claim bonus. A better statement would be 'if you cannot afford car insurance you cannot afford to own a car', simple. Health care insurance is something else again. We have, and pay according to our earnings, medicare. It does not cover dental, glasses, ambulance and several other extras. It does cover maternity needs. it cover hospitalization in a public hospital and there is a waiting list for non essential surgery. Urgent needs are receive immediate surgery. You can take out private insurance for private hospital and being able to choose your surgeon or specialist. private health insurance offers a range of premiums and you can pick and choose your options. Some offer four free options, such as gym membership, dental, glasses, ambulance,but basically with private insurance you get what you pay for. If you earn over a certain amount you must take out private insurance or pay an extra medicare levy. Having said that, a lot of people with private insurance still choose a public hospital, especially if it is a teaching hospital. Unfortunately our public hospitals do need extra beds.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Well, since you feel like a trip down memory lane:

October 13
KPG:

Thanks, but I'm done. I didn't join this site to enter a competition of how many insults I could withstand. CheekyBlighter, Alcameron, BrattyPatty, Huckleberry/Ingried, Susanmos2000 and the other goons have attacked me personally from day one of my first post on KP.

They are nothing but trash talkers in my opinion. I've ignored them again and again as you suggest and they do nothing more then follow me all over KP and incite me on every thread. 

Perhaps if you were attacked with their evil words, PMs and images supposedly of you and to you that are not you and descriptions and labels and every insult of your character under the sun as I have endured, you'd think as I do.

I have never encountered such disgusting people in my life.

I do not need to continue to listen to their BS and attacking of others also who I consider my friends.

I've enjoyed those who communicated with me in fun, knowledge and class. You are good people of character, and I wish you all the joys in life. KP Admin is willing to let the bully Liberals take over this site and ruin it, and allow it to be a pit of Hellians, so shall I. 

Blessings to all of you.

************************************************
Also from October 13

KPG:

We all know who the nasty posters are LTL.

No one asked Alcameron to leave this thread; Al said she would if she caused strife. She causes it regularly but won't leave.

No one has spoken for the OP; she has told us her thoughts. She doesn't like any of the spiteful and hateful Lib posters either. No surprise there ...

The Libs have insulted a photo of someone to what end? No one even knows who the woman pictured is expect for the ignoramus who posted it. Then the Libs spit on the person in the photo - disgusting.

This thread was started by a Conservative - true. It will also end as all the Conservatives and those who don't insult and hate others leave it and KP as well.

The hateful Libs will have KP all to themselves; exactly as they wish and deserve.
************************************************
If only! Seems you just can't stay away from us.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

@KPG
Please, let's cut this kind of ridiculousness. Nobody reads all your "proof" and "quotes" and nobody really cares. But if you find it necessary to waste your own time to prove some kind of point, go for it!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, alcameron, we all understand it. Those of us who are moderate and liberal say that we understand it, tell it to the world. Those on the right end of the political spectrum keep pretending that they are not bright enough to understand that ... it must be that they are pretending, right?


Well, I guess you know which ones around here I was talking to. Honestly, I've never seen such a group of hard-headed, blinded-by-hate, intolerant, and selfish individuals in my long life.
They're hopelessly caught up in a rigid, untenable position on "Obamacare."
Why can't they get on with it and stop wishing ill for all those without healthcare? 
Basta
Ciao now


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> on the liquid again. Go correct your buddy theyarnlady, what a wealth of language she displays without fail.


Oh thank you for those kind words. Coming from a person who has nothing between her ears but empty space and so loves to put everyone down. I think the name is air head.

And always remember the words and spelling mistake you make. I Do.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This one of my favorite things. Someone posts something here, where everyone can read and in a topic any KP member can participate in and then gives the totally ridiculous remark you made to Eve. Keep up the good work.:XD: :XD:


This is for you only:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh thank you for those kind words. Coming from a person who has nothing between her ears but empty space and so loves to put everyone down. I think the name is air head.
> 
> And always remember the words and spelling mistake you make. I Do.


Yarnie this is for you as you don't post pictures for Huck! Enjoy


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh thank you for those kind words. Coming from a person who has nothing between her ears but empty space and so loves to put everyone down. I think the name is air head.
> 
> And always remember the words and spelling mistake you make. I Do.


And more kind words.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> If there has been a cut in food stamps, it has come from congress. He doesn't have the ability to make those kinds of cuts by himself. I can guarantee you that any cuts in food stamps have come from republicans.


No, no, you are blaming the GOP again & you are wrong as usual!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And more kind words.


Hay Al, where have you been!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you for the above, you saved my fingers from having to say the same thing. She does believe she is a superior being, she is intelligent. She honestly believes that the rest of us are gibbering idiots, gullible fools who need to be pitied for their ignorance. remember......where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise. It definitely applies in her case.


Yep, KGP is superior on this thread as she has her facts correct!

Here you are calling my friend names--shame, shame!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And more kind words.


She started it with what she posted. I have been very nice today . i have tried to share my thoughts and listened to your side and did not answer in any way but nicely.

But she and Dame Maary decide to start the name calling agin.

So why should I not be allowed to do the same thing.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Well, I guess you know which ones around here I was talking to. Honestly, I've never seen such a group of hard-headed, blinded-by-hate, intolerant, and selfish individuals in my long life.
> They're hopelessly caught up in a rigid, untenable position on "Obamacare."
> Why can't they get on with it and stop wishing ill for all those without healthcare?
> Basta
> Ciao now


Dear Al, I thought you were above name calling!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Will she be spending the same about of time with each patient as before? Will she be overtired and, therefore, not "up to par" some days? This all affects one's care. I am sure she is a doctor because of her love of helping people. How can she help people when she is overworked?


So sad to be YOU!!! Selfish and self-centered!!! Imagine wishing 50 million can't get insurance so you can meet with your doctor for an extra 5 minutes. Sad, very sad!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

6


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> His stimulus did a lot for the economy, and we did not start to come out of the recession till June of 09. The job loss continued after Obama was sworn in. The stimulus helped improve things, but there should have been a jobs bill passed and the republicans refused to do that. They say they are for jobs, but have proven that isn't true. The republicans have blocked everything he has tried to do, since then. Do you not listen to the news and hear them say what their goal is? Remember all he can do is ask congress to vote on a bill to pass it so he can sign it. The house in particular has done nothing. Because of what the big banks did to our economy, I think they need some regulation. Even Bush knows he is better to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the limelight. He has done enough damage. Congressional republicans are at an all time low in likeability.


So true and well said!!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> Now I take the liberty to tell everyone that you are a Liar. I have never said anything about where and from whom I bought my equipment. I NEVER buy cheap as you do. Look at the quality of your stuff, there is little or none. As to your attaching names to People who they are not, it is my hope that Obamacare will finally put you into treatment. You difinitely have some issues that need to be dealt with and have been neglected for all too long. How many people am I now and how many others are me? You must be keeping track of it, I a sure. Another fetish of yours. My goodness you are really suffering.


Now, now, Huck, I have seen KPG's house, sewing house, her expensive sewing machine & other items that are not "cheap" as you put it so you just don't know what you are saying. None of your friends nor you have ever put pictures of anything you have for anyone to see so don't brag to me!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> So true and well said!!


Not true!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Now, now, Huck, I have seen KPG's house, sewing house, her expensive sewing machine & other items that are not "cheap" as you put it so you just don't know what you are saying. None of your friends nor you have ever put pictures of anything you have for anyone to see so don't brag to me!


You ought to go check out that thread concerning people who are cheap and dishonest, it fits your friend to a T


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> So sad to be YOU!!! Selfish and self-centered!!! Imagine wishing 50 million can't get insurance so you can meet with your doctor for an extra 5 minutes. Sad, very sad!!


What rock did you crawl out from to spin what she said into what you want? This is crazy!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> OMG, you are pathetic. Time for you to go back to school and learn how to read. When did I report that I was going to stay away from open KP threads and where are there liberal exclusive threads? You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said. I repeat, go back to school. I saw the light a long time ago when I became a democrat.


Good for you NJG. It amazes me that after 30 years of Republicanism where the rich got richer and the middle class imploded, people still choose to vote against their own self-interest by voting for the stooges of the rich. We now have a plutocracy...which is government run by the richest class, and not a democratic republic.....which is what the founding fathers created.

Pitting one middle class group against the other has been very smart politics for the Republican party. Only now are some waking up to what has been happening to the middle class over the past 30 years since Reaganomics gave incredible wealth to the upper 2% while shrinking the middle class.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS!
> 
> ...


FYI all....the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox News....always very biased against the president and all democrats. So I take this information from where it comes....


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> What rock did you crawl out from to spin what she said into what you want? This is crazy!


She said that her healthcare would be affected by doctors who would have to treat more patients in less time. I merely stated that my physician daughter knows that medicine is changing and she does not mind increasing her hours so she can see more patients.

Your friend stated that her doctors would spend less time with HER because they were too busy having to see more patients and she did not like that.

I stand by what I said......denying 50 million people from getting affordable health insurance because you want to spend an extra 5 minutes with your physician is a very selfish and self-centered thing to say about your fellow Americans who are less fortunate than YOU!!!!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yep, KGP is superior on this thread as she has her facts correct!
> 
> Here you are calling my friend names--shame, shame!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Good for you NJG. It amazes me that after 30 years of Republicanism where the rich got richer and the middle class imploded, people still choose to vote against their own self-interest by voting for the stooges of the rich. We now have a plutocracy...which is government run by the richest class, and not a democratic republic.....which is what the founding fathers created.
> 
> Pitting one middle class group against the other has been very smart politics for the Republican party. Only now are some waking up to what has been happening to the middle class over the past 30 years since Reaganomics gave incredible wealth to the upper 2% while shrinking the middle class.


Aren't there "any" rich Democrats? Hello! That must be a huge rock!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You ought to go check out that thread concerning people who are cheap and dishonest, it fits your friend to a T


What thread?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Aren't there "any" rich Democrats? Hello! That must be a huge rock!


 :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What about the millions of Americans who are now losing the insurance the President promised they could keep if they liked it. Since he knew in 2012 that they would not be able to keep their insurance and didn't tell anyone, how can anyone believe him now.


They are losing their insurance because their policies are not adequate under the new law. There are some basic standards for each policy under the ACA and some old policies do not contain coverage for these basic standards. So their insurance companies are canceling them. BUT they will be able to go to the exchanges in their state or to Healthcare.gov to get a new policy. Eventually problems with the website will be fixed.

The ACA is not perfect and will have to be revamped over time so the kinks will be worked out But it is far better for 50 million to have healthcare that they can afford, for kids to be able to stay on their parents' policies until age 26, and for there to be an end to discrimination for those with pre-existing conditions.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

To KPG: We tried to have a liberal thread of our own, but you won't allow us to do that. The first part that you attributed to me that starts with It was a good idea, wasn't even mine. You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said, like today saying we said we hate Obama. You know we didn't say that so why did you have to lie about it? I always try to not respond to you, because your comments are so off the wall and nasty, but sometimes they are just too nasty to ignore. And just for the record, since you have time to go search for things from the past on other threads, at least give me credit for the things I actually said, and for Gods sake get a life. I think you have too much free time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> OH, HELL NO. IT WAS BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS THAT CAUSED THIS RECESSION.


Right you are :!: :!: :!: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Aren't there "any" rich Democrats? Hello! That must be a huge rock!


Of course there are rich Dems. BUT it seems to be that billionaires who are against policies which would help the average person...such as healthcare for an affordable rate, good jobs with benefits and pensions, paying a living wage, etc. all seem to be Republicans. They spent billions trying to get Romney elected. Think of how much better this country would have been if they used their billions to create "JOBS" for us workers so unemployment would go down, the deficit would go down because more people employed means more people paying taxes, less people on food stamps and unemployment benefits too. But they choose to support candidates whose tax policies funnel more and more wealth to THEM and away from the average middle class worker.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Of course there are rich Dems. BUT it seems to be that billionaires who are against policies which would help the average person...such as healthcare for an affordable rate, good jobs with benefits and pensions, paying a living wage, etc. all seem to be Republicans. They spent billions trying to get Romney elected. Think of how much better this country would have been if they used their billions to create "JOBS" for us workers so unemployment would go down, the deficit would go down because more people employed means more people paying taxes, less people on food stamps and unemployment benefits too. But they choose to support candidates whose tax policies funnel more and more wealth to THEM and away from the average middle class worker.


They DO create jobs. Do you think poor people create jobs? They already do what you wrote above.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Right you are :!: :!: :!: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Seattle:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Seattle:


Very mature, Janeway. I think you're regressing.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Of course there are rich Dems. BUT it seems to be that billionaires who are against policies which would help the average person...such as healthcare for an affordable rate, good jobs with benefits and pensions, paying a living wage, etc. all seem to be Republicans. They spent billions trying to get Romney elected. Think of how much better this country would have been if they used their billions to create "JOBS" for us workers so unemployment would go down, the deficit would go down because more people employed means more people paying taxes, less people on food stamps and unemployment benefits too. But they choose to support candidates whose tax policies funnel more and more wealth to THEM and away from the average middle class worker.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They DO create jobs. Do you think poor people create jobs? They already do what you wrote above.


If the rich create jobs, why don't they just create some and help the economy?? I've heard this over and over again: the rich create jobs. So show me how, when, where, how many and tell me why they aren't helping the country by creating some right now.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They DO create jobs. Do you think poor people create jobs? They already do what you wrote above.


During the Bush years and all the tax cuts the "job creators" received, where are the jobs they created with all that money.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Of course there are rich Dems. BUT it seems to be that billionaires who are against policies which would help the average person...such as healthcare for an affordable rate, good jobs with benefits and pensions, paying a living wage, etc. all seem to be Republicans. They spent billions trying to get Romney elected. Think of how much better this country would have been if they used their billions to create "JOBS" for us workers so unemployment would go down, the deficit would go down because more people employed means more people paying taxes, less people on food stamps and unemployment benefits too. But they choose to support candidates whose tax policies funnel more and more wealth to THEM and away from the average middle class worker.


Rich people don't have to be Dems to do the right thing, they need to understand ecomonics.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: The founding fathers created a Constitutional Republic.


Prove it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You're right.....it is very childish of Janeway.....but it was very nice that she sent her picture along with her comment.  
Just kidding Janeway.....we all know you can take a joke.....you sure send plenty of them. Pretty much everything you've said so far really.


susanmos2000 said:


> Very mature, Janeway. I think you're regressing.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Prove it.


What????


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway


susanmos2000 said:


> Very mature, Janeway. I think you're regressing.


Janeway had regressed as far as it is possible before she ever gpt to KP and still function, sort of. She delights in try to pester me. Simple game for a simpelton.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I listed two names, a choice of *two* names, asking to whom the responsibility rests. Not one Lib can make a choice between two names nor tell me another name if not one of two was appropriate.
> 
> You'd think a Lib could figure that much out. But NOOOOOO. They'd all prefer to moan and complain about Bush and insult every KP poster and/or Republican. Frankly, so many promises made and broken, the Dems should crawl into their respective holes.


Did you ever stop to think that people are ignoring you for other reasons?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> OMG, you are pathetic. Time for you to go back to school and learn how to read. When did I report that I was going to stay away from open KP threads and where are there liberal exclusive threads? You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said. I repeat, go back to school. I saw the light a long time ago when I became a democrat.


And you did the right thing when you became a Democrat. Welcome aboard. Sorry about the rats.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> I find them repeating me, too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Now that is a very funny lie.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet you'll not be bothered if you stay with Denim & Pearls.



Janeway said:


> Evie, why must you respond to me as this was not for you to read nor reply?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Does anyone here understand that the 2 million people who are receiving cancellations of their current health insurance are losing their insurance because it was crap insurance? There are now standards that have to be met and those policies or companies selling poor insurance with high deductibles, etc., can no longer exist. The ACA doesn't provide those kinds of policies. They offer better quality insurance with higher standards. Again, I don't think Obamacare is the answer to all our healthcare problems. We need a single-payer system like Medicare. Also, the government itself didn't actually build the website themselves, they hired a company to do it. And, as all you conservatives out there know, there isn't a lot of government spending going on these days. If you do something "on the cheap" you might get an inferior product.
> The rollout of The ACA has been disastrous. Let's get it fixed instead of saying over and over "it's a train wreck." Can't we apply ourselves as a country and try to get this thing going? And remember, we're all paying taxes and all our taxes don't go towards paying for things we love. Need I mention 2 unnecessary wars? Let's get on with it and stop all the crying and gnashing of teeth.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks Al.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> Now I take the liberty to tell everyone that you are a Liar. I have never said anything about where and from whom I bought my equipment. I NEVER buy cheap as you do. Look at the quality of your stuff, there is little or none. As to your attaching names to People who they are not, it is my hope that Obamacare will finally put you into treatment. You difinitely have some issues that need to be dealt with and have been neglected for all too long. How many people am I now and how many others are me? You must be keeping track of it, I a sure. Another fetish of yours. My goodness you are really suffering.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just stop the poo poo, and drop the dears and dearest.



theyarnlady said:


> Dearest dumbpling wrong again they were born in Saudi Arabia but did not live in Saudi Arabia. Just because you are born in one country and you live in another country and denounce that country for not follow Islamic al-Qadea movement does not make you part of that country any more. Dearest.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Soloweygirl.......did you know it's illegal to drive a vehicle without having at least liability insurance? So those, plenty of people who you say own automobiles and don't have insurance, are either not driving them, or are breaking the law.
> And those people who chose not to purchase health insurance will have to pay the penalty....and the rest of us will have to pay their medical bills because they don't want to. I'm not saying all people, just some people.....For those who haven't been paying for their own insurance, it's been a cheap way to live, but frankly "I" can't afford their medical bills as well as my own. So as far as I'm concerned, it's time they pick up the slack, act like responsible adults and pay their own way in life.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, since you feel like a trip down memory lane:
> 
> October 13
> KPG:
> ...


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:

More lies and more lies. KPG your pants are on fire. Poof!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really jelun? You cannot tell me who should be responsible for the failed website for Obamacare? Who knew you could not possibly have that information. Amazing! It really is personal, isn't it?
> 
> Since you only get your info and talking points from people, stations, and blogs that don't report the *news*, I'm not surprised. Even still, you should be able to suggest who might be held responsible. Tell Jay Carney to give you a name to blame because you're not able to think of one yourself.
> 
> ...


bbrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo, my dear....and I do mean my dear. Well put!



NJG said:


> To KPG: We tried to have a liberal thread of our own, but you won't allow us to do that. The first part that you attributed to me that starts with It was a good idea, wasn't even mine. You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said, like today saying we said we hate Obama. You know we didn't say that so why did you have to lie about it? I always try to not respond to you, because your comments are so off the wall and nasty, but sometimes they are just too nasty to ignore. And just for the record, since you have time to go search for things from the past on other threads, at least give me credit for the things I actually said, and for Gods sake get a life. I think you have too much free time.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Libs and Dems don't have a clue what to do. They, too, were lied to by this Administration and haven't yet received their talking points to know where to turn or how to defend the debacle called Obamacare. No wonder, they cannot answer two simple questions; they are caught by surprise by the multiple failures.


Obamacare will survive and the website will be fixed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Nonsense. Very few of us can predict absolutely what sort of health care we'll need in our lifetime. Any woman who hasn't gone through menopause stands a chance of getting pregnant--even tube-tying and vasectomies aren't 100%. Some men get breast cancer. 15% of lung cancer patients are non-smokers. The list goes on and on--should I be excused from having to purchase mandatory automobile insurance because I've never had a speeding ticket in my life?


Let's not overlook cervical cancer and ovarian cancer, Susan. Women over 50 should get paps every 2 years totest for these 2 cancers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 wrote:
Well, since you feel like a trip down memory lane:

October 13
KPG:

Thanks, but I'm done. I didn't join this site to enter a competition of how many insults I could withstand. CheekyBlighter, Alcameron, BrattyPatty, Huckleberry/Ingried, Susanmos2000 and the other goons have attacked me personally from day one of my first post on KP.

They are nothing but trash talkers in my opinion. I've ignored them again and again as you suggest and they do nothing more then follow me all over KP and incite me on every thread.

Perhaps if you were attacked with their evil words, PMs and images supposedly of you and to you that are not you and descriptions and labels and every insult of your character under the sun as I have endured, you'd think as I do.

I have never encountered such disgusting people in my life.

I do not need to continue to listen to their BS and attacking of others also who I consider my friends.

I've enjoyed those who communicated with me in fun, knowledge and class. You are good people of character, and I wish you all the joys in life. KP Admin is willing to let the bully Liberals take over this site and ruin it, and allow it to be a pit of Hellians, so shall I.

Blessings to all of you.

************************************************
Also from October 13

KPG:

We all know who the nasty posters are LTL.

No one asked Alcameron to leave this thread; Al said she would if she caused strife. She causes it regularly but won't leave.

No one has spoken for the OP; she has told us her thoughts. She doesn't like any of the spiteful and hateful Lib posters either. No surprise there ...

The Libs have insulted a photo of someone to what end? No one even knows who the woman pictured is expect for the ignoramus who posted it. Then the Libs spit on the person in the photo - disgusting.

This thread was started by a Conservative - true. It will also end as all the Conservatives and those who don't insult and hate others leave it and KP as well.

The hateful Libs will have KP all to themselves; exactly as they wish and deserve.
************************************************
If only! Seems you just can't stay away from us.

[quotedamemary]
More lies and more lies. KPG your pants are on fire. Poof!

I am not surprised at all dame. She has been a pathological liar from day 1. Her nose is growing too. She should be able to fit 11 pigeons wing tip to wing tip on that unusually large probiscus of hers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> To KPG: We tried to have a liberal thread of our own, but you won't allow us to do that. The first part that you attributed to me that starts with It was a good idea, wasn't even mine. You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said, like today saying we said we hate Obama. You know we didn't say that so why did you have to lie about it? I always try to not respond to you, because your comments are so off the wall and nasty, but sometimes they are just too nasty to ignore. And just for the record, since you have time to go search for things from the past on other threads, at least give me credit for the things I actually said, and for Gods sake get a life. I think you have too much free time.


Because lying is all she knows how to do , NJG.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She thinks the lies prove her point and anything is worth that. Twisted logic to the sane.



BrattyPatty said:


> Because lying is all she knows how to do , NJG.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They DO create jobs. Do you think poor people create jobs? They already do what you wrote above.


Please tell me all of the policies that the Republicans have supported which have benefited the poor & have created jobs that they needed?

The Dems created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...all while being vehemently opposed by the Republicans when they were instituted. They are still opposed to Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment insurance, etc. and want to privatize Social Security. If everyone's SS was privatized when the stock marked crashed in 2008 they would have lost most of the value of their SS account. Then where would the seniors be with no money?? (Bush only created the Medicare prescription plan, Part D.)

The Dems created the minimum wage, 40 hr work week, workplace safety, vacation time, sick time, etc.

Please tell me all of the programs the Republicans created to help create jobs, help workers, help seniors, help the poor???

President Obama and Democrats are fighting to strengthen our economy further and create jobs for American workers by ending tax loopholes for corporations, providing tax cuts to small businesses, investing in a clean-energy economy, and putting Americans to work rebuilding our infrastructure.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> KPG said: Why should anyone be part of any party that cannot acknowledge reality?
> 
> I should be asking you that question. The ACA is the law of the land and how many times has your party tried to repeal it? Something like 47. I think. The republican party thinks they can continue to grow without including minorities and sometimes even women. The republican party wants to cut programs for the poor so they can give more tax cuts to the wealthy and subsidies to big farmers and big oil and they are doing all of this while trying to claim they are Christians. Now that is reality.


Yep, it sure is the law of the lands. Wonder why only recently the Obama Admin, Hillary, and now many Dems are working feverishly to distance themselves from it. :-D Beginning yesterday, even the LIBERAL _alleged_ news anchors are reporting on Obama's lies to all Americans about his signature legislation (ACA).

You don't know much about civics and politics do you? Take a guess why the Repub brought the ACA law to an appeal vote so many times.

Oh, and the Republican party doesn't think they can grow without those you mentioned. That's your idea, not theirs. Same for all the other BS you wrote.

Frankly, if you posted knowledgable opinions, truths and facts you'd seem much more credible. However, your words prove you live in an altered state of reality.

BTW: Obama claims he is a Christian. Isn't that good enough for you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> And you lie, cause no one said we hated President Obama, and I didn't know there were two of him.


Oh, dear. No lies from me. Damemary, your Liberal pal, wrote those very words. I know you'll go back and check it out.

You'll be amazed as was I.  Yesterday was a great day! So many Liberals fell flat on their faces along with our lying President.

The Dems have a real problem on their hands, and I'm not certain the President will not be held accountable for his latest major scandal.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> What rock did you crawl out from to spin what she said into what you want? This is crazy!


Janeway, you are so right. She changed it all into something that leaves me saying - "what in the world????". I guess people have their own agendas and hang on to what they are thinking instead of what people really are saying. I totally understand what you said above.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Good for you NJG. It amazes me that after 30 years of Republicanism where the rich got richer and the middle class imploded, people still choose to vote against their own self-interest by voting for the stooges of the rich. We now have a plutocracy...which is government run by the richest class, and not a democratic republic.....which is what the founding fathers created.
> 
> Pitting one middle class group against the other has been very smart politics for the Republican party. Only now are some waking up to what has been happening to the middle class over the past 30 years since Reaganomics gave incredible wealth to the upper 2% while shrinking the middle class.


So I guess ALL Republicans are rich and ALL Democrats are poor??? No rich Democrats??? Really?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> FYI all....the Wall Street Journal is owned by Rupert Murdoch who owns Fox News....always very biased against the president and all democrats. So I take this information from where it comes....


FYI,

The Wall Street Journal is an EXCELLENT source of information. Highly respected and quoted everywhere. NBC, ABC, CNN, CBS quote and use articles all the time. Also internet sites do.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Of course there are rich Dems. BUT it seems to be that billionaires who are against policies which would help the average person...such as healthcare for an affordable rate, good jobs with benefits and pensions, paying a living wage, etc. all seem to be Republicans. They spent billions trying to get Romney elected. Think of how much better this country would have been if they used their billions to create "JOBS" for us workers so unemployment would go down, the deficit would go down because more people employed means more people paying taxes, less people on food stamps and unemployment benefits too. But they choose to support candidates whose tax policies funnel more and more wealth to THEM and away from the average middle class worker.


How do you know this? Billionaires help people all the time. I do not agree with this opinion stated above.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> If the rich create jobs, why don't they just create some and help the economy?? I've heard this over and over again: the rich create jobs. So show me how, when, where, how many and tell me why they aren't helping the country by creating some right now.


People have stopped hiring because of what is going on politically in this country. They are worried! Why hire when you don't know what is coming next. I'd do the same. It is just good business.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> I also heard a congressman say that there wasn't enough money appropriated for the web site set up, but the republicans blocked it, of course.


Had to be a Democrat; they are the only people in D.C. who don't know anything about budgeting or responsible spending or running an economy. No surprise or anything new here, move along dear.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> During the Bush years and all the tax cuts the "job creators" received, where are the jobs they created with all that money.


They are there. Or they have gone because of the economy. What you state above does not make sense to me.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The tax cuts were not just for the rich. Most were for the middle class. The lowest rate went from 15% to 10%.
> The child tax credit was $500 per child under the age of 17. It was later changed to $1000. It became refundable depending on your earned income. The Earned income tax credit was increased. There is a savers credit for married couples with incomes under (approx.) $50,000. half for singles, for monies they put into a 401k or IRA, The credit for college tuition was increased and part became refundable. The capital gains tax is 0% for taxable incomes under $60,000, 15% for others.
> The only tax credit of these that is available for everyone is the Child Tax Credit.
> 
> Info on IRS.gov


Right. There are all kinds of people in all getting cuts. Why focus on billionaires. Let's take it away from everyone. See how that works! It won't. Poor people would be up in arms.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> "Look it up"


Every time she doesn't know how to answer, is stumped, she says look it up. Let her look it up if she really cares. "Look it up" is the answer for what she doesn't want to admit.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> And Bush was also elected twice, without our help and one of those was by the supreme court. If there had not been an electoral college, he would not have even been elected. He did not win the popular vote. He took us down this hole and he never should have been in office.


OMG, "if?" ... you really don't know anything about civics since you live in a bubble of your own making. I sure hope it is pleasant for you.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Please tell me all of the policies that the Republicans have supported which have benefited the poor & have created jobs that they needed?
> 
> The Dems created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...all while being vehemently opposed by the Republicans when they were instituted. They are still opposed to Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment insurance, etc. and want to privatize Social Security. If everyone's SS was privatized when the stock marked crashed in 2008 they would have lost most of the value of their SS account. Then where would the seniors be with no money?? (Bush only created the Medicare prescription plan, Part D.)
> 
> ...


Republicans are trying to save this country.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, dear. No lies from me. Damemary, your Liberal pal, wrote those very words. I know you'll go back and check it out.
> 
> You'll be amazed as was I.  Yesterday was a great day! So many Liberals fell flat on their faces along with our lying President.
> 
> The Dems have a real problem on their hands, and I'm not certain the President will not be held accountable for his latest major scandal.


Seems like things are finally falling apart for Obama.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Had to be a Democrat; they are the only people in D.C. who don't know anything about budgeting or responsible spending or running an economy. No surprise or anything new here, move along dear.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: The founding fathers created a Constitutional Republic.


FYI....we are a Democratic Republic:

We are a republic because we have a government where the people vote for representatives in government. In the Roman republic, only the wealthy were citizens and allowed to vote, so although it was a republic, it was not a democracy or government by the people. In the USA, we the people vote, but we rarely vote on individual laws and acts (such an election is called a plebiscite) but, instead, we elect those who do vote in congress and legislatures on individual matters. In other words, we are democratic in that we, the people, vote on those who will, in turn, vote on those individual matters. Thus, we are a democracy (in that we vote for representatives), and we are a republic in that we have representative government composed of representatives chosen by all the citizens (the people, whether wealthy or not) who are qualified to vote (this later characteristic defines a republic---government by representatives chosen by qualified CITIZENS---who in the USA are the people, thus a democracy and thus a republic).


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, it sure is the law of the lands. Wonder why only recently the Obama Admin, Hillary, and now many Dems are working feverishly to distance themselves from it. :-D Beginning yesterday, even the LIBERAL _alleged_ news anchors are reporting on Obama's lies to all Americans about his signature legislation (ACA).
> 
> You don't know much about civics and politics do you? Take a guess why the Repub brought the ACA law to an appeal vote so many times.
> 
> ...


LOL, an appeal vote? How STUPID can you be?


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Republicans are trying to save this country.


Sorry but I truly believe the Republicans are trying to hand over this country on a silver platter to their billionaire friends and to corporations. They are anti workers, and pro multinational corporations.

We are turning into a plutocracy.....government by the rich for the rich!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> How do you know this? Billionaires help people all the time. I do not agree with this opinion stated above.


Billionaires contribute to charities to reduce their tax burden. They also park their fortunes off-shore to avoid paying their fair share in taxes. So its all about the $$$$ and reducing their tax burdens.

THEY DO NOT FAVOR POLICIES WHICH HELP AVERAGE AMERICANS, ONLY THEMSELVES!!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Sorry but I truly believe the Republicans are trying to hand over this country on a silver platter to their billionaire friends and to corporations. They are anti workers, and pro multinational corporations.
> 
> We are turning into a plutocracy.....government by the rich for the rich!!


I understand what you are saying. The gap is getting wider. But I do not believe it is the Republicans fault. It is the way legislation is going and other changes in our society.

All economic groups are getting hand outs. The reason corporations are getting them is to foster business which helps the poor guy in the end by supplying more jobs.

Do not blame the Repubs for everything. You know where the buck stops.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> Now I take the liberty to tell everyone that you are a Liar. I have never said anything about where and from whom I bought my equipment. I NEVER buy cheap as you do. Look at the quality of your stuff, there is little or none. As to your attaching names to People who they are not, it is my hope that Obamacare will finally put you into treatment. You difinitely have some issues that need to be dealt with and have been neglected for all too long. How many people am I now and how many others are me? You must be keeping track of it, I a sure. Another fetish of yours. My goodness you are really suffering.


Huck, what ails you? You told us your husband bought his computer from Best Buy and yours is from a small local shop. If I'm wrong, it is only because you posted those untruths.

Tell me, how exactly do you know what 'stuff' I buy or have and its quality? Exactly what is your definition of 'cheap?' Because other than what I've posted or discussed on KP, you do not know what equipment or items nor of what quality are the items I own and create. I also wonder why you care. You love to compete and compare yourself to me; its not normal nor healthy for you to do so.

Yet, here you are telling me my stuff is non existent and yet is cheap! Hello?

I have no idea what the heck you are blabbing about in your post above. I don't even think you know what you're talking about; you just posted to insult me as usual.

Spend your time doing something productive or creative or to help others; that will improve the quality of *your* life!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> on the liquid again. Go correct your buddy theyarnlady, what a wealth of language she displays without fail.


You are a disgusting human being. Theyarnlady, as *you well know* suffered grand mal seizures.

Yet, here you are *again* attacking her.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

I pray that NO ONE ever responds to your posts again.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Bullies. I do not read or answer them. Waste of my life.


I know. I usually avoid the regular suspects, but occasionally read some of the ugly's posts. You're correct, complete waste of time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Huck, what ails you? You told us your husband bought his computer from Best Buy and yours is from a small local shop. If I'm wrong, it is only because you posted those untruths.
> 
> Tell me, how exactly do you know what 'stuff' I buy or have and its quality? Exactly what is your definition of 'cheap?' Because other than what I've posted or discussed on KP, you do not know what equipment or items nor of what quality are the items I own and create. I also wonder why you care. You love to compete and compare yourself to me; its not normal nor healthy for you to do so.
> 
> ...


KPG,

His/Her/Its/Huck's post is insane. Using the word liar? I really thing there is something wrong with writing like that. Bully!?! The anger in that message is way out of line. Scary. There is something very wrong with that person. I wonder when she/he/it will break? Crack up? Lose it for good? Seems like it is getting closer and closer.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh thank you for those kind words. Coming from a person who has nothing between her ears but empty space and so loves to put everyone down. I think the name is air head.
> 
> And always remember the words and spelling mistake you make. I Do.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are a disgusting human being. Theyarnlady, as *you well know* suffered grand mal seizures.
> 
> Yet, here you are *again* attacking her.
> 
> ...


KPG,

I do not read her posts. I totally ignore them. Everyone should. I think that person is insane. I am not insulting, I am just trying to state a fact. That person really, really needs professional help as soon as possible. I don't need to be a psychiatrist to see that. We all see it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, it sure is the law of the lands. Wonder why only recently the Obama Admin, Hillary, and now many Dems are working feverishly to distance themselves from it. :-D Beginning yesterday, even the LIBERAL _alleged_ news anchors are reporting on Obama's lies to all Americans about his signature legislation (ACA).
> 
> You don't know much about civics and politics do you? Take a guess why the Repub brought the ACA law to an appeal vote so many times.
> 
> ...


Yeah, you claim to be a Christian, too, and we know in your case it doesn't quite coincide with the things you spout on this forum.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

22


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Now, now, Huck, I have seen KPG's house, sewing house, her expensive sewing machine & other items that are not "cheap" as you put it so you just don't know what you are saying. None of your friends nor you have ever put pictures of anything you have for anyone to see so don't brag to me!


Janeway - you are awesome! I love this graphic. Huck certainly does choose to show herself to be 'stupid' often.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> So I guess ALL Republicans are rich and ALL Democrats are poor??? No rich Democrats??? Really?


Let's see, I seem to recall some rich democrats: the Kennedys, Al Gore, the Clintons, Warren Buffet, and the biggest sugar daddy financier of leftist causes, George Soros. There are more, but those are just off the top of my head. If they support leftist, democrat causes, they are democrats.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Janeway - you are awesome! I love this graphic. Huck certainly does choose to show herself to be 'stupid' on the internet often.


KPG,

Huck makes a fool of herself/himself/itself every time he/she/it writes. People run from her like the plague. Has been stated many times by people here. Avoidance. There is nothing, I repeat - nothing - logical, sane, kind, tolerant, thoughtful about those posts. As I said, they strike me as something that is very, very bizarre. I would not open my door to her/him/it out of fear.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Let's see, I seem to recall some rich democrats: the Kennedys, Al Gore, the Clintons, Warren Buffet, and the biggest sugar daddy financier of leftist causes, George Soros. There are more, but those are just off the top of my head. If they support leftist, democrat causes, they are democrats.


Jokim,

Thank you for this. They should not blame the Repubs for anything.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Actually the Democrats have created more problems than they have solved. The free market system. capitalism, is the best way to provide jobs in this country.
> 
> All of the programs the Democrats have created, have also created a 'gimme' society where to many people think they are owed something. Also the rules and regulations put on businesses restricts their growth and reduces the number of jobs they create.
> 
> Ronald Reagan stated "Government is the problem."


Joey,

You are SO right. Thank you for this informative post.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> FYI....we are a Democratic Republic:
> 
> We are a republic because we have a government where the people vote for representatives in government. In the Roman republic, only the wealthy were citizens and allowed to vote, so although it was a republic, it was not a democracy or government by the people. In the USA, we the people vote, but we rarely vote on individual laws and acts (such an election is called a plebiscite) but, instead, we elect those who do vote in congress and legislatures on individual matters. In other words, we are democratic in that we, the people, vote on those who will, in turn, vote on those individual matters. Thus, we are a democracy (in that we vote for representatives), and we are a republic in that we have representative government composed of representatives chosen by all the citizens (the people, whether wealthy or not) who are qualified to vote (this later characteristic defines a republic---government by representatives chosen by qualified CITIZENS---who in the USA are the people, thus a democracy and thus a republic).


We are a representative republic. In a pure democracy, everyone votes on every issue. This cannot be done in a country of 300 million without causing chaos.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> We are a representative republic. In a pure democracy, everyone votes on every issue. This cannot be done in a country of 300 million with causing chaos.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I understand what you are saying. The gap is getting wider. But I do not believe it is the Republicans fault. It is the way legislation is going and other changes in our society.
> 
> All economic groups are getting hand outs. The reason corporations are getting them is to foster business which helps the poor guy in the end by supplying more jobs.
> 
> Do not blame the Repubs for everything. You know where the buck stops.


Since Obama took over, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten much wider than before he was sworn in. The economy is 'tanking' under his watch. Anemic job growth does not indicate a robust economy. The costs and taxes, incurred by the people because of obamacare, will be the 'final nail' in this country's economic 'coffin'.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Since Obama took over, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten much wider than before he was sworn in.


Yes it has. I knew that. It has been made much worse under Obama. Thank you for writing that. We cannot forget such a fact!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> To KPG: We tried to have a liberal thread of our own, but you won't allow us to do that. The first part that you attributed to me that starts with It was a good idea, wasn't even mine. You invade everything and interpret them to mean something entirely different than what was said, like today saying we said we hate Obama. You know we didn't say that so why did you have to lie about it? I always try to not respond to you, because your comments are so off the wall and nasty, but sometimes they are just too nasty to ignore. And just for the record, since you have time to go search for things from the past on other threads, at least give me credit for the things I actually said, and for Gods sake get a life. I think you have too much free time.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Hilarious! Yes, there were several attempts to have exclusive-to-Liberals-only threads here on KP. I learned that while your leader (CheekyBlighter) had the ability to delete any post in your Liberals group threads, *three* times, those exclusive groups *failed.*

That's correct, *three times,* your Liberal-posters-only group thread imploded from within. *Only* Liberals posted yet the three exclusive forums *failed*! How proud you all must be!

No one is to be blamed for those failures other than the Libs who posted in them. 

"I won't allow you to do that?"  Hilarious! I nor anyone other poster has control over who posts on KP. KP Admin gave you and your Lib pals exclusivity. One of the Libs (MaidInBedlam) even began an exclusive, Liberals only group on Ravelry. Guess what? That group imploded and closed within less than 48 hours! The members of that group were some of the very same Liberals who post regularly here on KP.

You Libs must be so embarrassed - I understand where you are coming from. However, get a clue and stop bringing up your *failures*, stop your complaining and move forward and try to do better.

BTW: Try re-reading my post. I attributed YOUR words to you and the sentence you are blabbing about to Designer1234 who said it. Exactly as I posted.

I work about 70-80 hours a week; how about you? How much time should I free up to respond to you?

Shall I ask your permission to go to lunch or take a break too?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Your knowledge of American History is lacking.


You keep posting those things and yet, as your friend likes to portray things, you REFUSE to answer concerning proof of what you state we have as a government. Interesting.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Hilarious! Yes, there were several attempts to have exclusive-to-Liberals-only threads here on KP. I learned that while your leader (CheekyBlighter) had the ability to delete any post in your Liberals threads, *three* times, those threads *failed.*
> 
> That's correct, *three times,* your Liberal-posters-only group thread imploded from within. *Only* Liberals posted yet the three exclusive forums *failed*! How proud you all must be!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Seems like things are finally falling apart for Obama.


Yessiree!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Very mature, Janeway. I think you're regressing.


Thanks for the compliment as don't know how you & friends tolerate Seattle!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Your knowledge of American History is lacking.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Let's see, I seem to recall some rich democrats: the Kennedys, Al Gore, the Clintons, Warren Buffet, and the biggest sugar daddy financier of leftist causes, George Soros. There are more, but those are just off the top of my head. If they support leftist, democrat causes, they are democrats.


How correct you are Jokim! If considering only those who serve us in Congress, there are more wealthy Democrats than Republicans presently. Not a partisan fact, just a fact!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You're right.....it is very childish of Janeway.....but it was very nice that she sent her picture along with her comment.
> Just kidding Janeway.....we all know you can take a joke.....you sure send plenty of them. Pretty much everything you've said so far really.


A good thing to remember!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Since Obama took over, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten much wider than before he was sworn in. The economy is 'tanking' under his watch. Anemic job growth does not indicate a robust economy. The costs and taxes, incurred by the people because of obamacare, will be the 'final nail' in this country's economic 'coffin'.


 :thumbup: Yes, and guess who warned that Obamacare would be the collapse of America's economic and health care system?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Janeway Janeway had regressed as far as it is possible before she ever gpt to KP and still function, sort of. She delights in try to pester me. Simple game for a simpelton.


Oh, Seattle I have not regressed you are just too dumb for words so the pictures help with your situation!


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

This is in response to RWR's statement that "Government is the problem."

This from a man who ran on balancing the budget and left us with the beginnings of a huge debt. I remember Ronald Wilson Reagan, 666, best for his line, "Greed is good". Kind of says it all, doesn't it? Or how about, "Turn up that thermostat, this is America!" And this when Jimmy Carter tried to start us on the energy conservation movement, solar panels that were removed by a Republican, and are now going back up again on the White House. You all are pathetic. You worship the almighty dollar, not GOD. RWR was not a GOD.



Lukelucy said:


> Joey,
> 
> You are SO right. Thank you for this informative post.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Prove it.


Here they are:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> Please tell me all of the policies that the Republicans have supported which have benefited the poor & have created jobs that they needed?
> 
> The Dems created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...all while being vehemently opposed by the Republicans when they were instituted. They are still opposed to Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment insurance, etc. and want to privatize Social Security. If everyone's SS was privatized when the stock marked crashed in 2008 they would have lost most of the value of their SS account. Then where would the seniors be with no money?? (Bush only created the Medicare prescription plan, Part D.)
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo Al.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the Wall Street Journal is now owned by.......brummmmmmmmmm....Rupert Murdoch, well known right wing autocrat.



Lukelucy said:


> FYI,
> 
> The Wall Street Journal is an EXCELLENT source of information. Highly respected and quoted everywhere. NBC, ABC, CNN, CBS quote and use articles all the time. Also internet sites do.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Huck makes a fool of herself/himself/itself every time he/she/it writes. People run from her like the plague. Has been stated many times by people here. Avoidance. There is nothing, I repeat - nothing - logical, sane, kind, tolerant, thoughtful about those posts. As I said, they strike me as something that is very, very bizarre. I would not open my door to her/him/it out of fear.


You do, indeed, seem to be afraid of everything. Any subject that anyone brings up is sure to create fear for you.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Your knowledge of American History is lacking.


Sorry to put forth my credentials BUT I am a retired social studies teacher with a masters degree, almost a PhD and a current college instructor in Constitutional Law and Political Science. AND YOU????


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think of the right wing Koch Brothers who help no one but themselves.



Lukelucy said:


> How do you know this? Billionaires help people all the time. I do not agree with this opinion stated above.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Here they are:


That is just plain stupid either way you want to look at it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, the old canard, 'it's just good business.'



Lukelucy said:


> People have stopped hiring because of what is going on politically in this country. They are worried! Why hire when you don't know what is coming next. I'd do the same. It is just good business.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you ever stop to think that people are ignoring you for other reasons?


This is perfect!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A tiny vocal minority of the Republican Party is trying to destroy this country. The large majority of this country will not let it happen.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Things are crumbling for the Tea Party. Their shutdown of the government won them nothing but scorn. The Republican Party split with a majority coming to the Democrats because of it, signaling a potential voting block destined to break the deadlock in Congress.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Cynthia for the clarification.



cynthia627 said:


> FYI....we are a Democratic Republic:
> 
> We are a republic because we have a government where the people vote for representatives in government. In the Roman republic, only the wealthy were citizens and allowed to vote, so although it was a republic, it was not a democracy or government by the people. In the USA, we the people vote, but we rarely vote on individual laws and acts (such an election is called a plebiscite) but, instead, we elect those who do vote in congress and legislatures on individual matters. In other words, we are democratic in that we, the people, vote on those who will, in turn, vote on those individual matters. Thus, we are a democracy (in that we vote for representatives), and we are a republic in that we have representative government composed of representatives chosen by all the citizens (the people, whether wealthy or not) who are qualified to vote (this later characteristic defines a republic---government by representatives chosen by qualified CITIZENS---who in the USA are the people, thus a democracy and thus a republic).


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Now that is a very funny lie.


Oh, this fits!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> A tiny vocal minority of the Republican Party is trying to destroy this country. The large majority of this country will not let it happen.


damemary
NEVER.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, an appeal vote? How STUPID can you be?


How STUPID can you be? Think of who you're asking about. She takes stupid to new heights because of ego.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> A tiny vocal minority of the Republican Party is trying to destroy this country. The large majority of this country will not let it happen.


Where are all of the Obo supporters now that his lie about being able to keep their insurance is a total lie & on every news!

He has lost more than the Republicans. Get your facts straight.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Things are crumbling for the Tea Party. Their shutdown of the government won them nothing but scorn. The Republican Party split with a majority coming to the Democrats because of it, signaling a potential voting block destined to break the deadlock in Congress.


damemary
how can you have success in the long run when you are being lead by a Drama Queen (Cruz). He should get together with Markus Bachmann and start a dancing group.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry to say that I believe they've won some rounds.....but the full battle is engaging. May they lose the battle.



cynthia627 said:


> Sorry but I truly believe the Republicans are trying to hand over this country on a silver platter to their billionaire friends and to corporations. They are anti workers, and pro multinational corporations.
> 
> We are turning into a plutocracy.....government by the rich for the rich!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Actually the Democrats have created more problems than they have solved. The free market system. capitalism, is the best way to provide jobs in this country.
> 
> All of the programs the Democrats have created, have also created a 'gimme' society where to many people think they are owed something. Also the rules and regulations put on businesses restricts their growth and reduces the number of jobs they create.
> 
> Ronald Reagan stated "Government is the problem."


According to you, people who receive any government aid are "gimme" and a "takers", correct? So according to that assumption anyone receiving Social Security, Social Security Disability, Medicare, Farm Aid, Veterans Benefits, or any other government subsidy are the "takers" and only YOU are the maker. Well when you are retirement age, if you are not already, then please refuse to take your SS benefits, Medicare benefits, Veterans benefits, etc. so you will NOT be looked upon as a "taker". Oh, BTW please tell your moms and dads NOT to collect their benefits too. Because according to your philosophy, they are parasitic "takers" and only YOU are the all revered "maker".

You people are just beyond ridiculous. You spout right wing talking points without fully knowing the gravity of your comments and just how you are contributing to the decline of the middle class in this country.

Just like when Romney said to his audience, "we are going to repeal Dodd-Frank and everyone cheered not knowing that the law was instituted to help consumers by limiting banks from engaging in risky financial behavior while protecting consumers!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Where are all of the Obo supporters now that his lie about being able to keep their insurance is a total lie & on every news!
> 
> He has lost more than the Republicans. Get your facts straight.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True indeed Cynthia!



cynthia627 said:


> Billionaires contribute to charities to reduce their tax burden. They also park their fortunes off-shore to avoid paying their fair share in taxes. So its all about the $$$$ and reducing their tax burdens.
> 
> THEY DO NOT FAVOR POLICIES WHICH HELP AVERAGE AMERICANS, ONLY THEMSELVES!!!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> I bet you'll not be bothered if you stay with Denim & Pearls.


Why don't you stay on your so called threads? No, you must argue with everything that is truthful. Shame, shame!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Where are all of the Obo supporters now that his lie about being able to keep their insurance is a total lie & on every news!
> 
> He has lost more than the Republicans. Get your facts straight.


Janeway
we ARE keeping our Insurance as is and pay less for RX Insurance. Anyone who had good coverage rather than some Junk Policy is in good shape and the others will be soon as well.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Huck, You are shivering KPG's timbers. May the termites finish her off. ROFL


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:
> 
> More lies and more lies. KPG your pants are on fire. Poof!


No, no, your pants have burned off a long time ago! You must critique others constantly & bully!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How correct you are Jokim! If considering only those who serve us in Congress, there are more wealthy Democrats than Republicans presently. Not a partisan fact, just a fact!


And isn't it amazing that those millionaire and billionaire DEMOCRATIC congress members fight for the rights of the poor and middle class? Can't say the same about the Republican millionaire and billionaire congress members.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then you should know better.
> 
> We are ruled by a constitution, Therefore, a Constitutional Republic. You would not believe it they way our country has been run the last 50 years or so.


wrong wrong wrong. Please give me your credentials as to how you come upon your philosophy.

Oh I know already, it is what is exposed by RED STATE!!! and other right wing publications.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

[quotedamemary]
More lies and more lies. KPG your pants are on fire. Poof!

You lie constantly as you never post anything but a bunch of crap along with your bullies! So button up your lip!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> A tiny vocal minority of the Republican Party is trying to destroy this country. The large majority of this country will not let it happen.


AMEN!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome, welcome Cynthia. Your contributions are appreciated and your knowledge obvious.



cynthia627 said:


> Sorry to put forth my credentials BUT I am a retired social studies teacher with a masters degree, almost a PhD and a current college instructor in Constitutional Law and Political Science. AND YOU????


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dear Huck, You are shivering KPG's timbers. May the termites finish her off. ROFL


You are very hateful this morning didn't have your mixed drinks or caught your partner with another person!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> And isn't it amazing that those millionaire and billionaire DEMOCRATIC congress members fight for the rights of the poor and middle class? Can't say the same about the Republican millionaire and billionaire congress members.


The Democrats only fight for what will give them more wealth!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're dreaming darling. The spin doctors are hard at work.



Janeway said:


> Where are all of the Obo supporters now that his lie about being able to keep their insurance is a total lie & on every news!
> 
> He has lost more than the Republicans. Get your facts straight.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Where are all of the Obo supporters now that his lie about being able to keep their insurance is a total lie & on every news!
> 
> He has lost more than the Republicans. Get your facts straight.


I will say this again.....the insurance policies which did NOT include the basic services which are mandated by the ACA were the policies canceled. Those people will have to purchase much better policies either through their state exchanges or through Healthcare.gov (for the states which refused to participate in creating their own state exchanges).

If they can't afford the better, more inclusive policy, then they can receive a government subsidy to help them pay for their new UPGRADED policy which will cover more treatments, tests, etc.

More right wing talking points to discourage people from signing up for the ACA.

I can not believe all of you responders who don't want 50 million people to have affordable healthcare, who don't want their children to be covered on their policies until age 26, and for there to be NO denial of health care coverage for those with pre-existing conditions!!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Why don't you stay on your so called threads? No, you must argue with everything that is truthful. Shame, shame!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> According to you, people who receive any government aid are "gimme" and a "takers", correct? So according to that assumption anyone receiving Social Security, Social Security Disability, Medicare, Farm Aid, Veterans Benefits, or any other government subsidy are the "takers" and only YOU are the maker. Well when you are retirement age, if you are not already, then please refuse to take your SS benefits, Medicare benefits, Veterans benefits, etc. so you will NOT be looked upon as a "taker". Oh, BTW please tell your moms and dads NOT to collect their benefits too. Because according to your philosophy, they are parasitic "takers" and only YOU are the all revered "maker".
> 
> You people are just beyond ridiculous. You spout right wing talking points without fully knowing the gravity of your comments and just how you are contributing to the decline of the middle class in this country.
> 
> Just like when Romney said to his audience, "we are going to repeal Dodd-Frank and everyone cheered not knowing that the law was instituted to help consumers by limiting banks from engaging in risky financial behavior while protecting consumers!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then you should know better.
> 
> We are ruled by a constitution, Therefore, a Constitutional Republic. You would not believe it they way our country has been run the last 50 years or so.


We are not RULED by anything. The residents are protected by the US Constitution.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seriously, is this the best retort you can rustle up? Weak stuff.



Janeway said:


> You are very hateful this morning didn't have your mixed drinks or caught your partner with another person!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janeway said:


> The Democrats only fight for what will give them more wealth!


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: Have you been sipping the cooking sherry again? Take a nap.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Sorry to put forth my credentials BUT I am a retired social studies teacher with a masters degree, almost a PhD and a current college instructor in Constitutional Law and Political Science. AND YOU????


Well, aren't you just too cute for words! Most of us here have at least a Master's Degree so don't try to throw your education around as "not everyone graduates at the top of the class!"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now that's the basic ideas of ACA. I too don't know what the argument there is ..... except the don't want President Barack Obama to receive any credit for it. Damn the populace that will benefit. I just hope the voters vote for their own benefit in the next election to send a clear message.



cynthia627 said:


> I will say this again.....the insurance policies which did NOT include the basic services which are mandated by the ACA were the policies canceled. Those people will have to purchase much better policies either through their state exchanges or through Healthcare.gov (for the states which refused to participate in creating their own state exchanges).
> 
> If they can't afford the better, more inclusive policy, then they can receive a government subsidy to help them pay for their new UPGRADED policy which will cover more treatments, tests, etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: Have you been sipping the cooking sherry again? Take a nap.


No, I don't drink alcoholic drinks & don't need a nap--you are just being hateful as usual!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Let's see, I seem to recall some rich democrats: the Kennedys, Al Gore, the Clintons, Warren Buffet, and the biggest sugar daddy financier of leftist causes, George Soros. There are more, but those are just off the top of my head. If they support leftist, democrat causes, they are democrats.


 :thumbup:


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

This is in response to Ronald Wilson Reagans's statement that "Government is the problem." 

This from a man who ran on balancing the budget and left us with the beginnings of a huge debt. I remember Ronald Wilson Reagan, 666, best for his line, "Greed is good". Kind of says it all, doesn't it? Or how about, "Turn up that thermostat, this is America!" And this when Jimmy Carter tried to start us on the energy conservation movement, solar panels that were removed by a Republican, and are now going back up again on the White House. You all are pathetic. You worship the almighty dollar, not GOD. RWR was not a GOD.



Lukelucy wrote:
Joey,

You are SO right. Thank you for this informative post.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> I will say this again.....the insurance policies which did NOT include the basic services which are mandated by the ACA were the policies canceled. Those people will have to purchase much better policies either through their state exchanges or through Healthcare.gov (for the states which refused to participate in creating their own state exchanges).
> 
> If they can't afford the better, more inclusive policy, then they can receive a government subsidy to help them pay for their new UPGRADED policy which will cover more treatments, tests, etc.
> 
> ...


Regardless of these people and their silliness most people, as I am sure you are aware, are totally unaware of what is going on day to day with the insurance business or the exchanges.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> I will say this again.....the insurance policies which did NOT include the basic services which are mandated by the ACA were the policies canceled. Those people will have to purchase much better policies either through their state exchanges or through Healthcare.gov (for the states which refused to participate in creating their own state exchanges).
> 
> If they can't afford the better, more inclusive policy, then they can receive a government subsidy to help them pay for their new UPGRADED policy which will cover more treatments, tests, etc.
> 
> ...


But, who will pay for these 50 million people to have affordable insurance as mine has increased $75. Monthly so tell me why? It seems to me my increased cost will pay for someone who cannot nor won't pay for the insurance!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Regardless of these people and their silliness most people, as I am sure you are aware, are totally unaware of what is going on day to day with the insurance business or the exchanges.


I'm well aware of what is going on with my insurance as it has increased $75. Monthly under this so called affordable Obo insurance so don't try to sell me on this affordable insurance!

Get your head out of the sand!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

In about a year's time, will everyone who has posted here please start a new thread and talk about what is actually happening? I hope the ones who are proved wrong will have the grace to admit it. In the meantime, and for the sake of my belief in humanity, I am unwatching. Every time I think it cannot possibly get worse, it does.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Open your mind. You will be receiving coverage you didn't have before. For example, your pre-existing conditions cannot count against you. There are other benefits as well.

In the recent past, most personal bankruptcies resulted from unexpected medical bills far in excess of what individuals could pay.



Janeway said:


> But, who will pay for these 50 million people to have affordable insurance as mine has increased $75. Monthly so tell me why? It seems to me my increased cost will pay for someone who cannot nor won't pay for the insurance!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid you can count on that.



aw9358 said:


> In about a year's time, will everyone who has posted here please start a new thread and talk about what is actually happening? I hope the ones who are proved wrong will have the grace to admit it. In the meantime, and for the sake of my belief in humanity, I am unwatching. Every time I think it cannot possibly get worse, it does.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Thank you Cynthia for the clarification.


I feel like I am teaching a class online to these right wingers whose only knowledge is the Faux News Channel, Rush, Hannity, et al., right wing blogs and not a variety of news sources.

They seek out these sources to validate what they already believe and nothing and no one will change their points of view as seen by the many conversations on this site.

Education is about keeping an open mind to other varying viewpoints and to then make your own decision as to what is right and what is wrong. NOT to let others do your thinking for you.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, aren't you just too cute for words! Most of us here have at least a Master's Degree so don't try to throw your education around as "not everyone graduates at the top of the class!"


Well, please tell us your credentials, if you have any, and how they relate to the discussion. I only gave mine because you said that you were right and that I did not know what I am talking about. So I put forth my credentials to reinforce my debate with you.

You are the one trying to be cute!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Play it again Sam. Can't hear it too often. Thanks.



cynthia627 said:


> I feel like I am teaching a class online to these right wingers whose only knowledge is the Faux News Channel, Rush, Hannity, et al., right wing blogs and not a variety of news sources.
> 
> They seek out these sources to validate what they already believe and nothing and no one will change their points of view as seen by the many conversations on this site.
> 
> Education is about keeping an open mind to other varying viewpoints and to then make your own decision as to what is right and what is wrong. NOT to let others do your thinking for you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I'm well aware of what is going on with my insurance as it has increased $75. Monthly under this so called affordable Obo insurance so don't try to sell me on this affordable insurance!
> 
> Get your head out of the sand!


I couldn't be happier that your health insurance is increasing in price. That is exactly as it should be. The price for mine is set for the beginning of July, no increase for me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, aren't you just too cute for words! Most of us here have at least a Master's Degree so don't try to throw your education around as "not everyone graduates at the top of the class!"


Yes, they began handing out Master's Degrees out like the necessity they are these days and eliminated any meaningful achievement at the same time. 
That was probably in the mid-90s.
We certainly know you haven't been at the top of anything in the recent past.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Since Obama took over, the gap between the rich and the poor has gotten much wider than before he was sworn in. The economy is 'tanking' under his watch. Anemic job growth does not indicate a robust economy. The costs and taxes, incurred by the people because of obamacare, will be the 'final nail' in this country's economic 'coffin'.


Guess what? Sometimes revenue has to be increased by (read my lips) raising taxes. It's ridiculous to think that we can operate by spending less and less each year. It makes no sense. Inequality has never been this bad, and one of the biggest reasons is that the rich are getting richer on the backs of the poor and the vanishing middle class. Soon we'll be ruled by an oligarchy, and 99% of us will be the lower class.
Let them eat cake!


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Gee, I just read that Medicare Part B will stay the same at $104.90 a month. You are on Social Security, aren't you? Is this your supplemental insurance you are writing about? What company would that be with? Do enlighten us a bit further.



Janeway said:


> I'm well aware of what is going on with my insurance as it has increased $75. Monthly under this so called affordable Obo insurance so don't try to sell me on this affordable insurance!
> 
> Get your head out of the sand!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Perhaps that will change in 2015 when corporate has to comply with the ACA's requirements.


We already do comply - hence the 13% increase.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> But, who will pay for these 50 million people to have affordable insurance as mine has increased $75. Monthly so tell me why? It seems to me my increased cost will pay for someone who cannot nor won't pay for the insurance!


Your increased cost will pay the bonuses of your insurance company employees.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, this fits!


Yes, Janie, it fits you to a tee!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This is perfect!


Janie, aren't you so special that you can post idiotic pictures?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL

READ!!!


Business World 

The Outrage Arrives

You can't keep your insurance because Democrats don't want you to control your own health-care spending.

By 
Holman W. Jenkins, Jr. 

Oct. 29, 2013 7:17 p.m. ET

The White House has issued a clarification. When the president said if you like your insurance plan you can keep it, what he meant was you can keep it if he likes it.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans who are getting policy cancellation notices this month can't be as surprised as they pretend to be. President Obama made it clear at his 2010 health care summit what he thought of their taste in insurance. 

"It's the equivalent of Acme Insurance that I had for my car. . . . It's basically not health insurance," he explained. "It's house insurance. . . .

"I'm buying that to protect me from some catastrophic situation; otherwise, I'm just paying out of pocket. I don't go to the doctor. I don't get preventive care. There are a whole bunch of things I just do without. But if I get hit by a truck, maybe I don't go bankrupt."

Notice his disdain for those who buy high-deductible policies to protect themselves only from unexpected and unmanageable health-care costs. They are too cheap or too dumb to reach into their own pockets for necessary care that isn't covered by their policy or triggers the deductible.

These customers might like their plan. Their plan might even be the best cure, as many experts believe, for what ails our health-care system, namely too much incentive for Americans to overconsume health care. But Mr. Obama doesn't like their plans so they can't keep them.

Democrats at least are consistent. Back in 1993, during the fight over HillaryCare, Mrs. Clinton explained Democratic reasoning to then-House GOP Leader Denny Hastert. If Americans are allowed too much discretion over how they spend their health-care dollars, Mrs. Clinton said, "We just think people will be too focused on saving money and they won't get the care for their children and themselves that they need . . .

"The money has to go to the federal government because the federal government will spend that money better."

Not only was it deliberate ObamaCare policy to make sure plans millions of Americans like would no longer be available, forcing them to buy more coverage than they want or need. NBC reports that the White Houseas Mr. Obama was promising Americans they could keep their current planswas estimating at least seven million people would not be allowed to keep their current plans.

In drafting rules to put ObamaCare into effect, the Health and Human Services department under Kathleen Sebelius tightened the grandfathering eligibility to make sure even more people would be forced to switch to the excessively costly policies that Mr. Obama wants them to buy. Mr. Obama says he cares about your incentive to get preventive care or tests that you may not get if they don't appear to involve a free lunch. 

But the truth is, he wants you to pay for coverage you'll never use (mental-health services, cancer wigs, fertility treatments, Viagra) so the money can be spent on somebody else.

A nod goes to the Los Angeles Times, whose coverage of the inequities of ObamaCare has been exemplary. On Monday, it set the political world afire with a story about thousands of Californians losing coverage. "This is when the actual sticker shock comes into play for people," UCLA health-care researcher Gerald Kominski told the paper. "There are winners and losers under the Affordable Care Act."

The press stinks at covering abstractions, which the health-care debate was until a law was enacted and put into effect. With real-world results now to unpack and examine, NBC News gave airtime to a 62-year-old North Carolina man whose monthly premium just jumped $800: "I'm sitting here looking at this, thinking we ought to just pay the fine and just get insurance when we're sick. Everybody's worried about whether the website works or not, but that's fixable. That's just the tip of the iceberg. This stuff isn't fixable." 

The Affordable Care Act was never going to make care more affordable, except for those receiving a big subsidy at the expense of taxpayers or other insurance buyers. A non-listening press might have known better if it had paid attention in the most admirable moment of John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign, when the candidate disabused a generation of liberal reporters by saying that covering the uninsured might be desirable for other reasons, but health-care costs would be driven out of sight once 

the government began subsidizing another large group of Americans to overconsume.

ObamaCare probably won't succeed in covering even a majority of the uninsured. It will succeed, though, in forcing millions of Americans to buy more expensive insurance than they need or want, because that's the insurance Mr. Obama likes and will let them keep.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Hilarious! Yes, there were several attempts to have exclusive-to-Liberals-only threads here on KP. I learned that while your leader (CheekyBlighter) had the ability to delete any post in your Liberals group threads, *three* times, those exclusive groups *failed.*
> 
> That's correct, *three times,* your Liberal-posters-only group thread imploded from within. *Only* Liberals posted yet the three exclusive forums *failed*! How proud you all must be!
> To be so hated by a majority on this entire site, you must be very embarrassed.
> ...


No one would know better than you, cherf, that posts were deleted because of general nastiness.
Our Lib threads are doing just fine. Such a liar you are.
As I said before, you taint every thread you post in with lies and hate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, an appeal vote? How STUPID can you be?


And she directs others to take civics classes. She can be VERY stupid, jelun.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> [quotedamemary]
> More lies and more lies. KPG your pants are on fire. Poof!
> 
> You lie constantly as you never post anything but a bunch of crap along with your bullies! So button up your lip!


Janeway. You are the bully here on this thread with all of your racist statements and pictures.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are a disgusting human being. Theyarnlady, as *you well know* suffered grand mal seizures.
> 
> Yet, here you are *again* attacking her.
> 
> ...


Again with the name calling! Back to the same old s--- with this thing. I thought it would be locked up and sedated by now.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG, "if?" ... you really don't know anything about civics since you live in a bubble of your own making. I sure hope it is pleasant for you.


Mentioning the Electoral College at all shows that NJG know it exists. Personally, I think ther Electoral College should have been ditched a long time ago. It goes completely against concept of majority rule in elections.

I am starting to wonder if whoever is abusing you has hit you in the head too many times, leaving you with enough brain damage that you can't recognize that a statement can be part of an opinion and isn't automatically the product of ignorance. I don't mean this as an insult, I really am concerned.

As I have said before, you don't have to live in an abusive situation. You can get help if you reach out for it. You can call the National Domestic Abuse Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 24/7. While I don't agree with the things you post on the political topics, I still care about you as a human being.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, dear. No lies from me. Damemary, your Liberal pal, wrote those very words. I know you'll go back and check it out.
> 
> You'll be amazed as was I.  Yesterday was a great day! So many Liberals fell flat on their faces along with our lying President.
> 
> The Dems have a real problem on their hands, and I'm not certain the President will not be held accountable for his latest major scandal.


The only problems the Dems have is dealing with insane Republicans such as yourself.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, it sure is the law of the lands. Wonder why only recently the Obama Admin, Hillary, and now many Dems are working feverishly to distance themselves from it. :-D Beginning yesterday, even the LIBERAL _alleged_ news anchors are reporting on Obama's lies to all Americans about his signature legislation (ACA).
> 
> You don't know much about civics and politics do you? Take a guess why the Repub brought the ACA law to an appeal vote so many times.
> 
> ...


That is such crap! Why keep lying, Cherf? Nobody here takes your posts seriously. We all know what a liar you really are.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Janie, aren't you so special that you can post idiotic pictures?


Repeats, no less.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Theyarnlady gives as good as she gets, and it isn't easy to tell the difference between what is most likely fast typing as opposed to a seizure. I assume that if she's having a seizure she can't tell us that's what's happening until she's recovered from it. If I critisize her and found out later that she'd had a seizure, I'll apologize.


knitpresentgifts said:


> You are a disgusting human being. Theyarnlady, as *you well know* suffered grand mal seizures.
> 
> Yet, here you are *again* attacking her.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Theyarnlady gives as good as she gets, and it isn't easy to tell the difference between what is most likely fast typing as opposed to a seizure. I assume that if she's having a seizure she can't tell us that's what's happening until she's recovered from it. If I had attacked her and found out later that she'd had a seizure, I'd apologize.


MIB, don't listen to that POS. She's only around to stir it up.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Only in your mind Lukelucy, only in YOUR mind.... You really are finished here on this particular forum......the whole thing has become a joke. Anyone who wanted to have an honest discussion moved on, once they realized all you wanted was to be right. But I repeat again, ONLY IN YOUR MIND!!!! :roll:


Lukelucy said:


> Seems like things are finally falling apart for Obama.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Only in your mind Lukelucy, only in YOUR mind.... :roll:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Theyarnlady gives as good as she gets, and it isn't easy to tell the difference between what is most likely fast typing as opposed to a seizure. I assume that if she's having a seizure she can't tell us that's what's happening until she's recovered from it. If I had attacked her and found out later that she'd had a seizure, I'd apologize.


It's a neurological disorder, has nothing to do with spelling or typos. The meds may slow her down a bit, as with all of us self control works wonders.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I shut down my site on Ravelry because, a couple of days after I sarted it, someone who particiates in KP political topics and some of the ones on Ravelry started harrassing, threatening and stalking members of my topic by sending ugly PMs. There's no point in trying to out that person here. He/she would only deny it. There was every reason for me to shut down on Ravelry as it was the only way to protect its members from ugly PMs.

You are more than welcome to believe I'm lying, but that doesn't make it so. What I said above is entirely true. If you don't like that you can lump it. :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Hilarious! Yes, there were several attempts to have exclusive-to-Liberals-only threads here on KP. I learned that while your leader (CheekyBlighter) had the ability to delete any post in your Liberals group threads, *three* times, those exclusive groups *failed.*
> 
> That's correct, *three times,* your Liberal-posters-only group thread imploded from within. *Only* Liberals posted yet the three exclusive forums *failed*! How proud you all must be!
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I shut down my site on Ravelry because, a couple of days after I sarted it, someone who particiates in KP political topics and some of the ones on Ravelry started harrassing, threatening and stalking members of my topic by sending ugly PMs. There's no point in trying to out that person here. He/she would only deny it. There was every reason for me to shut down on Ravelry as it was the only way to protect its members from ugly PMs.
> 
> You are more than welcome to believe I'm lying, but that doesn't make it so. What I said above is entirely true. If you don't like that you can lump it. :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


A big ol' Bronx Cheer to the bunch of 'em, MIB.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I am so glad to see your three smiley faces.....I always knew there was more than one of you in there.... Be happy, all three of you... 
:thumbup:


Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> His stimulus did a lot for the economy, and we did not start to come out of the recession till June of 09. The job loss continued after Obama was sworn in. The stimulus helped improve things, but there should have been a jobs bill passed and the republicans refused to do that. They say they are for jobs, but have proven that isn't true. The republicans have blocked everything he has tried to do, since then. Do you not listen to the news and hear them say what their goal is? Remember all he can do is ask congress to vote on a bill to pass it so he can sign it. The house in particular has done nothing. Because of what the big banks did to our economy, I think they need some regulation. Even Bush knows he is better to keep his mouth shut and stay out of the limelight. He has done enough damage. Congressional republicans are at an all time low in likeability.


It all comes down to which economists you believe. The Republicans were not in control of the Congress at that time, so nice try on blaming them. Republicans are not responsible for everything that goes on in Washington, Democrats share equal blame. Bush is a gentleman, that is why he hasn't said anything. Clinton should have taken his cue from Bush, but then again his agenda is to stay in the limelight and help Hillary in her quest for the presidency. Congress is at an all time low in popularity and that includes the Democrats.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> But, who will pay for these 50 million people to have affordable insurance as mine has increased $75. Monthly so tell me why? It seems to me my increased cost will pay for someone who cannot nor won't pay for the insurance!


Insurance premiums always go up at every renewal. These premium increases are due to two possible factors:
1. You coverage did not include the mandated requirements of insurance under the ACA and as a result your premium increased due to more inclusive coverage.
2. It is a yearly premium increase as do all insurance policies, auto, health, etc to cover increased costs from the hospitals.

As to the 50 million of uninsured people, some of whom will get subsidies to cover the costs, their coverage will slow the increased costs of health insurance thereby saving you money in the long run. They will no longer use the emergency room for their care, and they will no longer receive charity care.

For 27 years, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, or EMTALA, has been in effect. It was passed by a bipartisan Congress and signed by a Republican President, Reagan in 1986 so that no person, regardless of whether they have insurance or not, would be turned away from a hospital in need as a result of an emergency. For the past 27 years the uninsured have been using the ER for their care, and when more care is needed, they apply for charity care at the hospital. These increased operating costs of the hospitals are passed off to insurance companies as higher fees, which are then passed off for the insured in the form of higher premiums. The government currently provides billions of tax payer dollars annually to help hospitals pay for the uninsured. Then the insurance companies pass any additional money they have to pay to the insured in the form of higher premiums.

The ACA will save tax payers money by having the uninsured pay for their insurance. Even though some will receive subsidies, the amount of tax payer dollars used in subsidies will be much less over the next 10 years than would the cost of covering the uninsured for ER visits and for charity care.

So to summarize, just who do you think CURRENTLY pays for the uninsured when they go to the ER and receive charity care (without the ACA)?? The insured pay for the uninsured in the form of increased health insurance premiums passed on by insurance companies to cover their losses of treating the uninsured and tax payers pay for the uninsured in the form of tax dollars.

The ACA was originally a republican idea by requiring all Americans to purchase health insurance so that costs could be shared by all. Funny how they have walked away from a system that they originally thought of themselves!!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Welcome, welcome Cynthia. Your contributions are appreciated and your knowledge obvious.


Yes, Cynthia, welcome. :-D I have enjoyed and appreciated your posts. Please hang in here and don't let the compulsively argumentative folks get you down. And many thanks for letting us know your qualifiacations even though shouldn't need to do so.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Is this a news piece or an opinion piece. I've noticed several conservatives have posted opinion pieces from the WSJ here.


Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ!!!
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh dear I do hope that is NOT true, in fact it is plain stupid not to have automobile insurance. What happend if they have an accident and wipe out another car, an expensive car? Who pays the the innocent driver to have his car replaced? What happens if their car is totalled or stolen? Even minor accidents result in huge repair bills. At least you should have third party, fire and theft. We have compulsory third party, included with the vehicle registration fee. My son's renewal in front of me ..... 12 months...licence fee 123.80. Insurance 231.86. Gst on insurance 23.19. Stamp duty on insurance 25.50. Recording fee 13.05. Total 417.40 and the third party nsurance does not cover your medical bills if you are at fault. Automobile insurance on his car is 85.00 a month, guaranteed replacement value. He paid slightly extra to have the compulsory levy removed and he is on maximum no claim bonus. A better statement would be 'if you cannot afford car insurance you cannot afford to own a car', simple. Health care insurance is something else again. We have, and pay according to our earnings, medicare. It does not cover dental, glasses, ambulance and several other extras. It does cover maternity needs. it cover hospitalization in a public hospital and there is a waiting list for non essential surgery. Urgent needs are receive immediate surgery. You can take out private insurance for private hospital and being able to choose your surgeon or specialist. private health insurance offers a range of premiums and you can pick and choose your options. Some offer four free options, such as gym membership, dental, glasses, ambulance,but basically with private insurance you get what you pay for. If you earn over a certain amount you must take out private insurance or pay an extra medicare levy. Having said that, a lot of people with private insurance still choose a public hospital, especially if it is a teaching hospital. Unfortunately our public hospitals do need extra beds.


Unfortunately it is true. Vehicle insurance is required, but many do not have it. It does increase the cost for those that do. If you have insurance, your vehicle will be taken care of, if not, you are responsible for the damages. Medical attention is also included up to a point with the insurance as well. As is damage to other property, i.e. fences, buildings, tree removal, etc. There is also no fault insurance where your insurance takes care of you and your responsibilities and not necessarily the other party. All states have their own requirements.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> MIB, don't listen to that POS. She's only around to stir it up.


Please don't call anyone a POS, no matter how true it is. And what's wrong with wanting to know if someone has been afected negatively, as in theyarnlady having a seizure, due to something they can't control? I'm well aware that she has a seizure problem AND is around her to stir things up. I'd just rather respond, if I bother to, when she's in full posession of her so-called facultues.  :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The tax cuts were not just for the rich. Most were for the middle class. The lowest rate went from 15% to 10%.
> The child tax credit was $500 per child under the age of 17. It was later changed to $1000. It became refundable depending on your earned income. The Earned income tax credit was increased. There is a savers credit for married couples with incomes under (approx.) $50,000. half for singles, for monies they put into a 401k or IRA, The credit for college tuition was increased and part became refundable. The capital gains tax is 0% for taxable incomes under $60,000, 15% for others.
> The only tax credit of these that is available for everyone is the Child Tax Credit.
> 
> Info on IRS.gov


But where are all the jobs? Those people at the top that received the greatest benefit from the Bush tax cuts were always called the job creators. How many times did we hear that the job creators needed tax cuts. Well, where are the jobs?If I remember correctly, we lost a he-- of a lot of jobs.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> It's a neurological disorder, has nothing to do with spelling or typos. The meds may slow her down a bit, as with all of us self control works wonders.


I just meant that I think sometimes theyarnlady is so eager to respond to someone's post her language gets a bit muddled. Maybe the meds do slow her down. That happens a lot. :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Insurance premiums always go up at every renewal. These premium increases are due to two possible factors:
> 1. You coverage did not include the mandated requirements of insurance under the ACA and as a result your premium increased due to more inclusive coverage.
> 2. It is a yearly premium increase as do all insurance policies, auto, health, etc to cover increased costs from the hospitals.
> 
> ...


Let's not forget that the CURRENT Republican plan puts Seniors on these exchanges. 50 million seniors left to choose between basic Medicare and going on the exchanges to choose what to get for health insurance with a simple voucher.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> A big ol' Bronx Cheer to the bunch of 'em, MIB.


You got that right, jelun2. Thanls :!: :!: :!:    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Please tell me all of the policies that the Republicans have supported which have benefited the poor & have created jobs that they needed?
> 
> The Dems created Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid...all while being vehemently opposed by the Republicans when they were instituted. They are still opposed to Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment insurance, etc. and want to privatize Social Security. If everyone's SS was privatized when the stock marked crashed in 2008 they would have lost most of the value of their SS account. Then where would the seniors be with no money?? (Bush only created the Medicare prescription plan, Part D.)
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Does anyone here understand that the 2 million people who are receiving cancellations of their current health insurance are losing their insurance because it was crap insurance? There are now standards that have to be met and those policies or companies selling poor insurance with high deductibles, etc., can no longer exist. The ACA doesn't provide those kinds of policies. They offer better quality insurance with higher standards. Again, I don't think Obamacare is the answer to all our healthcare problems. We need a single-payer system like Medicare. Also, the government itself didn't actually build the website themselves, they hired a company to do it. And, as all you conservatives out there know, there isn't a lot of government spending going on these days. If you do something "on the cheap" you might get an inferior product.
> The rollout of The ACA has been disastrous. Let's get it fixed instead of saying over and over "it's a train wreck." Can't we apply ourselves as a country and try to get this thing going? And remember, we're all paying taxes and all our taxes don't go towards paying for things we love. Need I mention 2 unnecessary wars? Let's get on with it and stop all the crying and gnashing of teeth.


Who is to judge it is crap insurance. Individual insurance reflects what the person purchasing it wants. It doesn't mean it's crap. Maybe they could not afford anything better, but know they needed the insurance. They have/had a plan they could afford, just because it might not include what others think it should include, doesn't make it crap. That's just another Administration talking point. The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them. That is the only way this fiasco will work. Everyone has to pay so those that cannot afford to pay will have coverage.

I certainly don't consider 400-600M being "on the cheap". For that kind of money the website should have been up and running without security issues, without needing to be shutdown constantly and certainly without all the glitches. It must be that 400-600M is considered chump change in website creating circles, so I guess we got what we paid for.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Who is to judge it is crap insurance. Individual insurance reflects what the person purchasing it wants. It doesn't mean it's crap. Maybe they could not afford anything better, but know they needed the insurance. They have/had a plan they could afford, just because it might not include what others think it should include, doesn't make it crap. That's just another Administration talking point. The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them. That is the only way this fiasco will work. Everyone has to pay so those that cannot afford to pay will have coverage.
> 
> I certainly don't consider 400-600M being "on the cheap". For that kind of money the website should have been up and running without security issues, without needing to be shutdown constantly and certainly without all the glitches. It must be that 400-600M is considered chump change in website creating circles, so I guess we got what we paid for.


***********************************************
The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them.

*No, the ACA has been drafted so that a certain level of care is required for a policy to be allowed for ANYONE. That is why when you whine about people losing their insurance we simply laugh at your ignorance. For the most part these are cash cows for the insurance companies. Nobody gets to collect on them. People just get to pay in. They are worthless which is a perfectly good reason to call them crap. *

I certainly don't consider 400-600M being "on the cheap".

HUH?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Soloweygirl.......did you know it's illegal to drive a vehicle without having at least liability insurance? So those, plenty of people who you say own automobiles and don't have insurance, are either not driving them, or are breaking the law.
> And those people who chose not to purchase health insurance will have to pay the penalty....and the rest of us will have to pay their medical bills because they don't want to. I'm not saying all people, just some people.....For those who haven't been paying for their own insurance, it's been a cheap way to live, but frankly "I" can't afford their medical bills as well as my own. So as far as I'm concerned, it's time they pick up the slack, act like responsible adults and pay their own way in life.


Of course I know it is illegal to drive without insurance. The point is that many do drive without it and yes, they are breaking the law. They use the same excuse for not having auto insurance as for not having health insurance. They can't afford it. Their sloughing off their responsibilities is put onto the rest of us. I agree, they need to start acting like responsible adults in all aspects of their lives and pay their own way.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And more kind words.


Why not hold Huckleberry accountable for her "kind" words about Yarnie. Oh, that's right, she is one of your group so is immune.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Didn't KPG just say yesterday that she had friends and relatives in the internet security sector that said they could have done it for $2 mil?


jelun2 said:


> ***********************************************
> The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them.
> 
> *No, the ACA has been drafted so that a certain level of care is required for a policy to be allowed for ANYONE. That is why when you whine about people losing their insurance we simply laugh at your ignorance. For the most part these are cash cows for the insurance companies. Nobody gets to collect on them. People just get to pay in. They are worthless which is a perfectly good reason to call them crap. *
> ...


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Let's not forget that the CURRENT Republican plan puts Seniors on these exchanges. 50 million seniors left to choose between basic Medicare and going on the exchanges to choose what to get for health insurance with a simple voucher.


Sad but true. That's the Ryan plan. Can you imagine an 80 year old with a multitude of ailments try to buy health insurance on an exchange instead of having guaranteed health coverage under Medicare?? I don't know if others on this site who expose Republican ideals know that Rep. Paul Ryan worships Ayn Rand whose promotes "super" Capitalism and the obsession with self.

Ayn Rand's philosophy boils down to two propositions. One is that selfishness is the highest of moral virtues. The other is that the masses are resentful of success and are thus parasites living off the hard work of capitalists far superior to them in every way. Rand said that altruism or care and concern for others is ultimately evil!!! And that Rand was an avowed atheist!! How would that go over with his right wing Christian audience. So he began distancing himself from her philosophy, not because he does not believe in it, but because his base might not vote for him if they knew he followed the philosophy of an avowed atheist!!

They, Republicans, hate hate hate so called "entitlement" programs and never wanted them put into place. They want corporations, banks, etc. to control every aspect of government. That is why they want to weaken the power of the fed and privatize everything.

These programs are not what people are entitled to, they are programs that people payed into with a guarantee of coverage when they needed it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, it sure is the law of the lands. Wonder why only recently the Obama Admin, Hillary, and now many Dems are working feverishly to distance themselves from it. :-D Beginning yesterday, even the LIBERAL _alleged_ news anchors are reporting on Obama's lies to all Americans about his signature legislation (ACA).
> 
> You don't know much about civics and politics do you? Take a guess why the Repub brought the ACA law to an appeal vote so many times.
> 
> ...


You are living in a dream world. Time to wake up.

So you think President Obama is trying to distance himself from the ACA! Now that is some BS.
Why did the repubs try to repeal the ACA so many times? OK, I'll guess. Stupidity, or they won't pass any bill that would be good for the country cause that might make President Obama look good, so they try to repeal the ACA, just to pass the time and it helps them look busy and like they are doing something. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and over and expecting a different result. Looking forward to your reason why they tried it so many times cause it is real hard to make any sense of why they do things the way they do. 
They won't grow without minorities becoming part of their party. In the not too distant future white people will be a minority. The minorities will remember how the repub treated them, when it comes to immigration reform. The poor people in this country hear every day how much value they have when it comes to food stamps, minimum wage increase and oh don't forget the right complaining that they actually have air conditioning!!! How dare they.
President Obama is a Christian and that is good enough for me. The question should be, is it good enough for you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Aren't there "any" rich Democrats? Hello! That must be a huge rock!


Now Janie, you know rich Democrats don't count. We all know there aren't any liberal CEO's out there. That's Republican domain. There are no liberals on Wall Street, again that is Republican domain. God forbid any liberals inherited money from their rich multimillionaire relatives. That would also be Republican domain. Only Republicans are allowed to be bashed because they happen to be rich.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

shayfaye said:


> Didn't KPG just say yesterday that she had friends and relatives in the internet security sector that said they could have done it for $2 mil?


Since she doesn't have a flippin' clue what is in the contract that would just be her blowing smoke out her arse just like every other silly thing she posts on this site, and I do mean site not thread.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> If the rich create jobs, why don't they just create some and help the economy?? I've heard this over and over again: the rich create jobs. So show me how, when, where, how many and tell me why they aren't helping the country by creating some right now.


Small businesses are not creating new jobs now because of all the new regulations, mandates and taxes they are required to comply with. All of these cost businesses a lot of money. Many businesses cannot afford new hires until the uncertainty of what is coming next year is worked out. The tax code alone is causing problems because is keeps increasing. The government is tying the hands of business with these regulations. These regulations are a major reason why the economy is stagnating and not growing.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Since she doesn't have a flippin' clue what is in the contract that would just be her blowing smoke out her arse just like every other silly thing she posts on this site, and I do mean site not thread.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, dear. No lies from me. Damemary, your Liberal pal, wrote those very words. I know you'll go back and check it out.
> 
> You'll be amazed as was I.  Yesterday was a great day! So many Liberals fell flat on their faces along with our lying President.
> 
> The Dems have a real problem on their hands, and I'm not certain the President will not be held accountable for his latest major scandal.


No, that is you not knowing how to read again. When she said "they" she meant you and the rest of your buddies. That was very easy to understand for some of us, because you talk all the time about how you hate our President. However, you like to twist things around and say they mean something else. I didn't have to go back and check it out, cause I remembered all your crap about asking questions that we are suppose to answer, like you somehow have some authority!!! NOT


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> How STUPID can you be? Think of who you're asking about. She takes stupid to new heights because of ego.


And you take it to new heights because you can. Bravo!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> And isn't it amazing that those millionaire and billionaire DEMOCRATIC congress members fight for the rights of the poor and middle class? Can't say the same about the Republican millionaire and billionaire congress members.


The Democrats way of fighting for the poor and middle class is keeping them poor or making them poor and dependent. What a way to fight. They are only doing what they do for the vote, nothing more.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> I will say this again.....the insurance policies which did NOT include the basic services which are mandated by the ACA were the policies canceled. Those people will have to purchase much better policies either through their state exchanges or through Healthcare.gov (for the states which refused to participate in creating their own state exchanges).
> 
> If they can't afford the better, more inclusive policy, then they can receive a government subsidy to help them pay for their new UPGRADED policy which will cover more treatments, tests, etc.
> 
> ...


It is not an UPGRADE if options are of no use to the policy holder. They are just something the policy holder must pay for - and in this case it is for someone else. It's the equivalent of being required to buy a 4 door sedan, when you only want/need a 2 door coupe. Why buy the other 2 doors if you will never use them? They are only considered better policies because the law demands that the policy holder have those options, not because she/he will use or benefit from them. Talking points, nothing more.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Not all health plans give their members access to good doctors. Some doctors are mediocre or downright bad but are still in practice. While an insurer might be pretty good at offering affordable plans that conform to ACA requirements, that doesn't mean an individual will get the best doctore. I call that c--p.


soloweygirl said:


> Who is to judge it is crap insurance. Individual insurance reflects what the person purchasing it wants. It doesn't mean it's crap. Maybe they could not afford anything better, but know they needed the insurance. They have/had a plan they could afford, just because it might not include what others think it should include, doesn't make it crap. That's just another Administration talking point. The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them. That is the only way this fiasco will work. Everyone has to pay so those that cannot afford to pay will have coverage.
> 
> I certainly don't consider 400-600M being "on the cheap". For that kind of money the website should have been up and running without security issues, without needing to be shutdown constantly and certainly without all the glitches. It must be that 400-600M is considered chump change in website creating circles, so I guess we got what we paid for.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> I feel like I am teaching a class online to these right wingers whose only knowledge is the Faux News Channel, Rush, Hannity, et al., right wing blogs and not a variety of news sources.
> 
> They seek out these sources to validate what they already believe and nothing and no one will change their points of view as seen by the many conversations on this site.
> 
> Education is about keeping an open mind to other varying viewpoints and to then make your own decision as to what is right and what is wrong. NOT to let others do your thinking for you.


Another liberal that thinks they are above everyone else. How nice.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I shut down my site on Ravelry because, a couple of days after I sarted it, someone who particiates in KP political topics and some of the ones on Ravelry started harrassing, threatening and stalking members of my topic by sending ugly PMs. There's no point in trying to out that person here. He/she would only deny it. There was every reason for me to shut down on Ravelry as it was the only way to protect its members from ugly PMs.
> 
> You are more than welcome to believe I'm lying, but that doesn't make it so. What I said above is entirely true. If you don't like that you can lump it. :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Seattle, if that's what floats your boat, go for it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They are there. Or they have gone because of the economy. What you state above does not make sense to me.


What you state above does not make sense to me. They are there?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Not all health plans give their members access to good doctors. Some doctors are mediocre or downright bad but are still in practice. While an insurer might be pretty good at offering affordable plans that conform to ACA requirements, that doesn't mean an individual will get the best doctore. I call that c--p.


Nor will the plans on these exchanges provide access to good doctors either. I call that crap. With or without meeting the requirements of the ACA, no policy holder is guaranteed access to good doctors.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Your are correct.... thank you for your explanation.


soloweygirl said:


> Of course I know it is illegal to drive without insurance. The point is that many do drive without it and yes, they are breaking the law. They use the same excuse for not having auto insurance as for not having health insurance. They can't afford it. Their sloughing off their responsibilities is put onto the rest of us. I agree, they need to start acting like responsible adults in all aspects of their lives and pay their own way.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Seattle, if that's what floats your boat, go for it.


How fun! MIB posted other reasons on KP prior (_excuses_), of why her Rav group was orphaned by her and basically no longer active.

Mostly MIB claimed her e-mail and/or computer was hacked and that she had to re-vamp her computer and system. Now, of course, she tells us she shut down her group to protect her members from receiving ugly PM's.

Seriously? We all are aware both of those excuses are complete farce. Closing a group or thread either on Rav or KP does not hinder nor stop an individual from receiving or sending unsolicited PMs! Nor did MIB stop posting while her alleged computer problem repairs were underway.

Last I checked, her group still existed but MIB was no longer a member or moderator.  So who shut down who?

I heard that Rav staff took the control over her group's activity and existence because MIB's group members harassed others Rav members. Any back-and-forth messages between site members are archived with time and date stamps as on most every public forum, so it had to be easy to prove who exactly was harassing who.

That reason of MIB's defunked group sounds like the *facts* to me. MIB cannot even make up good excuses, the poor soul.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! MIB posted other reasons on KP prior (_excuses_), of why her Rav group was orphaned by her and basically no longer active.
> 
> Mostly MIB claimed her e-mail and/or new group was hacked and that she had to re-vamp her computer and system. Now, of course, she tells us it was to stop her group members from receiving ugly PM's.
> 
> ...


I remember crying a river that day. Oh wait, I was laughing so hard I was crying.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I remember crying a river that day. Oh wait, I was laughing so hard I was crying.


Wish I had thought of doing that! I'll do it now instead. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Great explanation joeysomma - thanks!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! MIB posted other reasons on KP prior (_excuses_), of why her Rav group was orphaned by her and basically no longer active.
> 
> Mostly MIB claimed her e-mail and/or computer was hacked and that she had to re-vamp her computer and system. Now, of course, she tells us she shut down her group to protect her members from receiving ugly PM's.
> 
> ...


Defunked? Best laugh I've had all day. Please keep it up - you are hilarious.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Another liberal that thinks they are above everyone else. How nice.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> And you take it to new heights because you can. Bravo!


Solow says...
Small businesses are not creating new jobs now because of all the new regulations, mandates and taxes they are required to comply with. All of these cost businesses a lot of money. Many businesses cannot afford new hires until the uncertainty of what is coming next year is worked out. The tax code alone is causing problems because is keeps increasing. The government is tying the hands of business with these regulations. These regulations are a major reason why the economy is stagnating and not growing.

Jelun says... You are a fine one to talk about anyone else's contributions. Small business accounts for huge numbers of the new jobs created. You have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorrry, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I include the doctors who accept any plan bought through the ACA health exchanges or proviced by any health plan anyone already has. Of course, no plan from any insurer guarantees access to good doctors. That fact is still c--p, IMO.


soloweygirl said:


> Nor will the plans on these exchanges provide access to good doctors either. I call that crap. With or without meeting the requirements of the ACA, no policy holder is guaranteed access to good doctors.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Want a good lesson on how to babble and not answer a question. Can't help but laugh.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/25/1250643/-Another-GOP-representative-babbles-incoherently-when-asked-to-explain-her-criticism-of-Obamacare?detail=email

Give em hell Bill!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/29/1251569/-Congressman-Gives-GOP-A-Piece-Of-His-Mind-In-Obamacare-Hearing-VIDEO?detail=email


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I will agree with you on this one. That is the way it was supposed to be. These protections are being taken from us little by little.
> 
> The latest one I heard was that insurance polices by unions will all be grandfathered. They do not need to have the basic coverage that the individual policies do. I guess union members are more equal under the law than the rest of us.


Union members being grandfathered DOES NOT mean they are not equal to the rest of us under the law. What it means is that people have joined unions, which includes paying dues to remain in a union, and then union members have contracts with employers who hire union members and which spell out all the union member's benefits. This also applies to pensions' They come from a worker's union, not their employer.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Seattle, if that's what floats your boat, go for it.


Would you like me to out the KP member who did what I described to my Ravelry topic or would you prefer just letting me float my boat? One of your friends in the poitical topics would be hurt by being outed here, though doing so would prove what I said is true.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks EveCooke from your point of view. It's refreshing. Our countries are so much alike in being outspoken, as you see here. I don't understand why the other people here are so against ACA. Lots of people in the US pay for insurance that is a bad/low level of care. If they get sick, their ins. co. stops their policy. As others have written, I think it's a fear. A fear of something. Don't know what. Their political leaders feed fearful ideas to them. I'm registered as independent. Last year I was thinking maybe I'd give republicans my vote at least for my state elections. I just don't have any respect for them anymore. I don't love everything about the Dems, either. There has been state level corruption exposed recently that is disturbing. .


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Both reasons for shutting down my Rav group are true. I learned, here on KP, quite awhile after shutting down the group wasn't what happened to it and that it was merely "orphaned". Unfortunately, you don't understand and never will.


knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! MIB posted other reasons on KP prior (_excuses_), of why her Rav group was orphaned by her and basically no longer active.
> 
> Mostly MIB claimed her e-mail and/or computer was hacked and that she had to re-vamp her computer and system. Now, of course, she tells us she shut down her group to protect her members from receiving ugly PM's.
> 
> ...


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> No, I did not see you as trying to offend me and I did not take offence. You asked a legitimate question and I answered. No offence meant and no offence taken. We do not have to agree 100% of the time, that would make us little clones, or Stepford Wives. Do I have the correct title here?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> That still doesn't negate the fact that we should be able to buy insurance based on our and our family's medical history. No, we can't predict what disease will may/may not get. We also can't predict that we won't be hit by a bus, shot in a robbery, drown, get into a car accident, etc. Any women that hasn't gone through menopause still does not necessarily need maternity care. Unless she decides to go ahead with the pregnancy, then she doesn't need maternity care, nor pediatric care either.
> 
> I don't purchase automobile insurance based on the fact I might get a speeding ticket. Should every homeowner be required to buy flood insurance even though they are not in flood zones? Quite possibly Sandy and Katrina victims would have a different opinion in hindsight.


We can't subscribe to cable Tv according to our personal likes.
:twisted:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> People need to stop blaming Bush. It is all Obama.


No president has been perfect. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Defunked? Best laugh I've had all day. Please keep it up - you are hilarious.


What, missed me so soon? You unwatched this thread for what, five hours, before reappearing. That was one fast 'year's time'; you smack of hilarity to me too.



aw9358 said:


> In about a year's time, will everyone who has posted here please start a new thread and talk about what is actually happening? I hope the ones who are proved wrong will have the grace to admit it. In the meantime, and for the sake of my belief in humanity, I am unwatching. Every time I think it cannot possibly get worse, it does.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I know, but some of your pronouncements are just too tempting. You expect consistency from a socialist? I'm astonished and flattered.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Thanks EveCooke from your point of view. It's refreshing. Our countries are so much alike in being outspoken, as you see here. I don't understand why the other people here are so against ACA. Lots of people in the US pay for insurance that is a bad/low level of care. If they get sick, their ins. co. stops their policy. As others have written, I think it's a fear. A fear of something. Don't know what. Their political leaders feed fearful ideas to them. I'm registered as independent. Last year I was thinking maybe I'd give republicans my vote at least for my state elections. I just don't have any respect for them anymore. I don't love everything about the Dems, either. There has been state level corruption exposed recently that is disturbing. .


Thank you for your post. You have been kind and thoughtful. Yes, it is fear, but well-founded. Not just a free-floating lack of thought fear. My ideas are not founded on what I have been "fed". Just common sense and knowledge.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> No president has been perfect. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Some far less than perfect.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> That is nice that that it is required and you need to pay it to get the license. What happens when someone does not pay it and drives a car with none of what you have listed. And they hit you? They are dead broke. Do you have to pay for your own injuries and car repair.
> 
> In Wisconsin, liability insurance is required now , but that does not stop people from driving without insurance or without a license. My SIL was hit, 22 fractures 2 weeks in ICU and 3 months in nursing home. The other driver had no insurance and owned little more than the clothes on his back. Thank goodness his health insurance, retired military, paid the bills, and his employer let him work by computer from the nursing home. The government promised him the insurance for the 20+ years he served our country in the military.


In NYS all policies are required to have uninsured drivers coverage in addition. When a young man totalled my car all the work was done by my company. They got my deductible from the other company. Sent me a check for my car and paid all medical bills. Man, I still miss that car..


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh thank you for those kind words. Coming from a person who has nothing between her ears but empty space and so loves to put everyone down. I think the name is air head.
> 
> And always remember the words and spelling mistake you make. I Do.


You keep a diary of spelling? Really?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

damemary said:


> Just stop the poo poo, and drop the dears and dearest.


Mommy dearists.
ahahahaha :lol:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I know, but some of your pronouncements are just too tempting. You expect consistency from a socialist? I'm astonished and flattered.


I don't expect anything nor the truth from the Liberals or Socialists who post on KP; that way I'm never disappointed.

You didn't let me down.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I decided pretty recently that my spelling isn't always perfect, and only correct the typos that get in the way of the meaning of what I've decide to say. I can't imagine keeping a diary of spelling...


ute4kp said:


> You keep a diary of spelling? Really?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Your knowledge of American History is lacking.


Lacking what? It was a good description.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Well, the President's approval rating is still dropping, and I cannot wait to see where he stands a month from now. I'm starting to believe that he'll not recover from his "lying" scandal as quickly as he has from *all* his other scandals. His lies were so succinct, he cannot deny he said them repeatedly.

The President really stepped into it this time and finally the faux journalists are carrying the story on their channels too.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> Thank you for this. They should not blame the Repubs for anything.


Did you mean to write this? They aren't perfect.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> Sorry to put forth my credentials BUT I am a retired social studies teacher with a masters degree, almost a PhD and a current college instructor in Constitutional Law and Political Science. AND YOU????


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :!:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Well, aren't you just too cute for words! Most of us here have at least a Master's Degree so don't try to throw your education around as "not everyone graduates at the top of the class!"


Everyone has a master's?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Everyone has a master's?


Only in Janeway's world, ute!


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Only in Janeway's world, ute!


I need a master's. I just realized this thread is one I told myself not to read and only read the original (other) Obama thread. No wonder I had so many pages to catch up. Lol.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't expect anything nor the truth from the Liberals or Socialists who post on KP; that way I'm never disappointed.
> 
> You didn't let me down.


What a ridiculous figure you cut. You never let me down either.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It is not an UPGRADE if options are of no use to the policy holder. They are just something the policy holder must pay for - and in this case it is for someone else. It's the equivalent of being required to buy a 4 door sedan, when you only want/need a 2 door coupe. Why buy the other 2 doors if you will never use them? They are only considered better policies because the law demands that the policy holder have those options, not because she/he will use or benefit from them. Talking points, nothing more.


Incorrect!!! Some people were sold policies that covered very few services, had very large co-pays with very large deductibles. So, in essence, they were paying for nothing. Their policies were "junk policies".

The new standards of the ACA make covering basic services a must. That is why some policies have been canceled and some policies had a raise in premiums. People will now get basic coverage which actually covers different screenings, tests, office visits, as well as catastrophic coverage. People will benefit from having more coverage and not less. They can now go to the doctor and get PREVENTATIVE TREATMENT SO THEY DON'T GET SICK IN THE FUTURE!!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Another liberal that thinks they are above everyone else. How nice.


I guess you subscribe to the know-nothing philosophy!! It's your party that is anti-science and filled with a bunch of know-nothings from that moron Steve King, to the 1/2 term governor, Caribou Barbie Sarah Palin, and dim-witt Michele Bachman.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It's a neurological disorder, has nothing to do with spelling or typos. The meds may slow her down a bit, as with all of us self control works wonders.


I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.

I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.

Because of that seizure I have to go to the speicalist and be tested every six months.

Why I have memory lost.Short term and long term. 
The test tehy give me to see if i can understand words or remember those words I have yet to pass. 
I can not rmember words that they have told me and after seven minutes can not repeat them.

can you draw a box I can not not any more.

Can you remember things you are suppose to do I have to write them down and that is the worst part. I have forgotten how to spell words unless I have a dictionary. What makes it harder is I can't pronounce the words in order to find them.

This is not to say I am aa complete idiot it is lost of memory. 
And If I hear from any of you again oh she is using it there is nothing wrong with her put a pencil in your mouth and have a seizure. I hope you go to the hospital some time and watch and see what it is like for people that have epilepsy.
Yes Dame Mary I know your whole family has it and i am suppose to be just like them . No not everyone has it to the same degree and not everyone comes out with the same syptems. My Med's have been changed twice so far and as my body get use to them they have to either up dose or change as I have mini seizures.

I don't want you sympathy nor do I care any more how you Dem's not all have made fun of me.

I am not handicap I have a problem but their are people in this world that are wrost off then i am. I have lost something they have lost more.

. If i knew you had a problem that would be the last thing I would use to asult you. 
If you don't like it who cares have at it. I havae every right to defend myself against your nasty comments. 
I am through with all of this as one lady said crap.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

PS as a bonus to me the words on here I can go back and reread and then response.

Also because I have a great hubby he stands by me and helps me find the words.

Plus the dear ladies on KP that do know me understand and allow me to make those mistakes and do not critzies me. 

I do like writing funny things even have to make copies of that as I can't remember.
Enough of this crap not going to go on with it again.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Please don't call anyone a POS, no matter how true it is. And what's wrong with wanting to know if someone has been afected negatively, as in theyarnlady having a seizure, due to something they can't control? I'm well aware that she has a seizure problem AND is around her to stir things up. I'd just rather respond, if I bother to, when she's in full posession of her so-called facultues.  :thumbup:


Thanks for your kind words may they come back and haunt you . I have more going for me so called facultues even with what I have had to lose then you will ever have. The word stupid comes to mind.
And yes when attacked i attack back.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> You keep a diary of spelling? Really?


yes when she posted things you if you are so new would know. I havae a paper listing her mistakes as she seems to find it amusing to point out mine. So thank you for another person who has the brain the size of a pea and has all the answers to life.

Guess that is what makes you so proud and those others to be a Dem. and so consired about all those poor people.

God help those poor people that you care aabout if this is how you act as a human being.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Small businesses are not creating new jobs now because of all the new regulations, mandates and taxes they are required to comply with. All of these cost businesses a lot of money. Many businesses cannot afford new hires until the uncertainty of what is coming next year is worked out. The tax code alone is causing problems because is keeps increasing. The government is tying the hands of business with these regulations. These regulations are a major reason why the economy is stagnating and not growing.


Baloney!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats way of fighting for the poor and middle class is keeping them poor or making them poor and dependent. What a way to fight. They are only doing what they do for the vote, nothing more.


Another piece of baloney. Name one thing the repubs have done for the poor.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is not an UPGRADE if options are of no use to the policy holder. They are just something the policy holder must pay for - and in this case it is for someone else. It's the equivalent of being required to buy a 4 door sedan, when you only want/need a 2 door coupe. Why buy the other 2 doors if you will never use them? They are only considered better policies because the law demands that the policy holder have those options, not because she/he will use or benefit from them. Talking points, nothing more.


I would like to remind you that one never knows when one will need his/her health insurance. It's INSURANCE.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! MIB posted other reasons on KP prior (_excuses_), of why her Rav group was orphaned by her and basically no longer active.
> 
> Mostly MIB claimed her e-mail and/or computer was hacked and that she had to re-vamp her computer and system. Now, of course, she tells us she shut down her group to protect her members from receiving ugly PM's.
> 
> ...


And how do YOU know so much about it, I wonder?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


What might be a problem is having to use a handicap to continue to claim that one is at the top of the mountain. 
A tonic-clonic seizure may be the most unsightly, there is no distinction of "the worst". 
Many people who have a tonic-clonic never repeat the experience. I am sorry to hear that is not the case for you. I hope that you get them under control soon. In the mean time, there is nothing we can't wait another few minutes to read.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


I am sorry for your neurological problems.As we age, we realize more and more how vital decent health is to a happy life.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry for your condition, really I am!!! However your condition is the prime reason why Obamacare, aka the ACA, should be available to be purchased by ALL!!! You have a pre-existing condition which, under the old insurance requirements, would preclude you from getting health insurance at an affordable rate, if you could even get it at all.

And if you are already on Medicare then that is a good thing too because if your party was in power again then Social Security and Medicare would probably be privatized. Under that you would not be able to purchase health insurance at an affordable rate or at all!! You would be forced to purchase your health insurance through an exchange instead of receiving guaranteed health insurance from Medicare.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

theyarnlady I am truly sorry that you suffer with this problem, and yes I do understand. My youngest child suffered a brain injury at birth and as a result suffers from temporal lobe epilepsy. He does not have grand mal fits, his epilepsy manifests itself in other ways. I know the heartbreak of watching a tiny baby only a week old whose body is convulsing, going into a bracket of three fits, then ten minutes later going into another bracket of fits. I know the problems of medication and the effects of those medications, the constant blood tests for liver function, the regular EEGs, monthly at first, then three monthly, then every six months. I know the problems associated with trying to explain to the teachers that although the child looks normal he has a medical problem. And NO he is not mentally retarded. I know the problems of transferring from short term memory to long term memory, rote learning, speech development, and so many, many other things. I tried to point out that part of his problem resulted in him suffering migraine headaches, which resulted in him being bedridden in a dark room for several days. Only to be told 'children do not suffer from migraines',or 'I am a teacher, I know what I am talking about, you are only a mother you do not have the years of study behind you that I have'. My son says he spent all his childhood and adolescence wandering around in a fog, with other children and their parents, sadly, laughing at him. He still has his problems at 39. Very sadly, the people who were the nastiest to him were the members of the church he joined when he was a teenager. Not a sect but a church that has a worldwide following and builds expensive temples with gold statues on the roof.

I honestly do understand your problem and apologise if I appeared to be making fun of you at any time. I do get upset though when you make nasty comments about other posters who disagree with your point of view. I will attack the message but not the messenger. I will tell people that I think they have gone overboard with some postings.

All I can say is to relax and try to stay calm. I know it is the wrong thing to become upset as this can and does cause a reaction in your body. Tension and stress are your worst enemies. All I can offer you is a calm place and perhaps a cuppa.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

theyarnlady, I have a serious question for you.

Since you have grand mal seizures, why would you subject yourself to the type of bickering and back biting that goes on here, in these political forums? Wouldn't that exacerbate your condition? Let's face it, people aren't always nice and kind when discussing these things.
I can understand you wanting to get your point across, everyone does, but why to the point of distraction and aggravation?



theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Guess what? Sometimes revenue has to be increased by (read my lips) raising taxes. It's ridiculous to think that we can operate by spending less and less each year. It makes no sense. Inequality has never been this bad, and one of the biggest reasons is that the rich are getting richer on the backs of the poor and the vanishing middle class. Soon we'll be ruled by an oligarchy, and 99% of us will be the lower class.
> Let them eat cake!


Since 2009, Obama's policies have widened the gap between the rich and the poor. We can't collect enough in taxes to cover his spending. We are spending money that future generations have not earned yet. The disappearing middle class is collateral damage in the left's war on American culture and way of life. Perhaps it is the goal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Since 2009, Obama's policies have widened the gap between the rich and the poor. We can't collect enough in taxes to cover his spending. We are spending money that future generations have not earned yet. The disappearing middle class is collateral damage in the left's war on American culture and way of life. Perhaps it is the goal.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
Should I mention the far right's wars on women and the poor? Nah.....Jokim is just joking.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ!!!
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this informative article. Fair and balanced.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for posting this informative article. Fair and balanced.


Fair and balanced if you are unfair and unbalanced. :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I couldn't be happier that your health insurance is increasing in price. That is exactly as it should be. The price for mine is set for the beginning of July, no increase for me.


Why are you happy that my insurance has increased while your has stayed the same--are you on Obama's Welfare insurance?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats way of fighting for the poor and middle class is keeping them poor or making them poor and dependent. What a way to fight. They are only doing what they do for the vote, nothing more.


Exactly!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> I am so sorry for your condition, really I am!!! However your condition is the prime reason why Obamacare, aka the ACA, should be available to be purchased by ALL!!! You have a pre-existing condition which, under the old insurance requirements, would preclude you from getting health insurance at an affordable rate, if you could even get it at all.
> 
> And if you are already on Medicare then that is a good thing too because if your party was in power again then Social Security and Medicare would probably be privatized. Under that you would not be able to purchase health insurance at an affordable rate or at all!! You would be forced to purchase your health insurance through an exchange instead of receiving guaranteed health insurance from Medicare.


You have everything all wrong so don't know where you got all of this incorrect information! I have had insurance for a pre-existing condition for over 13 years so you are completely nuts!

Obocare won't do anything for me but increase my premium to help pay for all of the Deadbeats who do not work.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Small businesses are not creating new jobs now because of all the new regulations, mandates and taxes they are required to comply with. All of these cost businesses a lot of money. Many businesses cannot afford new hires until the uncertainty of what is coming next year is worked out. The tax code alone is causing problems because is keeps increasing. The government is tying the hands of business with these regulations. These regulations are a major reason why the economy is stagnating and not growing.


Right again, soloweygirl! After 5 yrs in office and 7 yrs of democrat controlled Congress, they are running out of people to blame.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You have everything all wrong so don't know where you got all of this incorrect information! I have had insurance for a pre-existing condition for over 13 years so you are completely nuts!
> 
> Obocare won't do anything for me but increase my premium to help pay for all of the Deadbeats who do not work.


Cynthia was replying to yarnie, Jane, not you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> I need a master's. I just realized this thread is one I told myself not to read and only read the original (other) Obama thread. No wonder I had so many pages to catch up. Lol.


Well, a masters degrees is achieved through study & long hours of research in your field but it appears you have trouble reading a few pages so there isn't any need for you to enroll in any university.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Fair and balanced if you are unfair and unbalanced. :XD: :XD: :XD:


Seriously? How can they not notice the difference between a factual article and an OPED piece?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cynthia was replying to yarnie, Jane, not you.


Remember, I also have a pre-existing condition.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why are you happy that my insurance has increased while your has stayed the same--are you on Obama's Welfare insurance?


It is the law of expectations being fulfilled.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Remember, I also have a pre-existing condition.


Most of us on Knitting Paradise have a pre-existing condition that the ACA has remedied, we are women. 
Now we cannot be charged more than men for the same coverage.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens. In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers are separated into distinct branches and the will of the majority of the population is checked by protections for individual rights so that no individual or group has absolute power. The fact that a constitution exists that limits the government's power, makes the state constitutional. That the head(s) of state and other officials are chosen by election, rather than inheriting their positions, and that their decisions are subject to judicial review makes a state republican._
> 
> http://www.dailypaul.com/1958/constitutional-republic-vs-democracy


Lots of food for thought in the above statement. Sounds wonderful on paper, doesn't it? Thanks for the reminder, Joey, of what we once were!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Remember, I also have a pre-existing condition.


Yes Janeway, we all know that, but you were pretty rude to Cynthia when her comment wasn't directed at you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Yes, they began handing out Master's Degrees out like the necessity they are these days and eliminated any meaningful achievement at the same time.
> That was probably in the mid-90s.
> We certainly know you haven't been at the top of anything in the recent past.


You don't know where I have been & where I have worked but if you are happy with Obocare, then you must not have achieved much during your lifetime.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Most of us on Knitting Paradise have a pre-existing condition that the ACA has remedied, we are women.
> Now we cannot be charged more than men for the same coverage.


It's about time, too! Go Sox!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You don't know where I have been & where I have worked but if you are happy with Obocare, then you must not have achieved much during your lifetime.


Did someone run over your dog, Jane? You are awfully snippy tonight.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes Janeway, we all know that, but you were pretty rude to Cynthia when her comment wasn't directed at you.


Well, your Cynthia is very rude!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Lots of food for thought in the above statement. Sounds wonderful on paper, doesn't it? Thanks for the reminder, Joey, of what we once were!


It stirred up thoughts of food in me. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, your Cynthia is very rude!


She doesn't belong to me. She is her own person. I respect what she has to say.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did someone run over your dog, Jane? You are awfully snippy tonight.


Don't have a dog! I'm just returning the ugly remarks!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Don't have a dog! I'm just returning the ugly remarks!


Why bother? Do you really want to spend your last days being nasty on a website? Is this what you call living a Christian life?
I know that there is a Janeway that most of us don't get to see. She was really a nice person.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> In NYS all policies are required to have uninsured drivers coverage in addition. When a young man totalled my car all the work was done by my company. They got my deductible from the other company. Sent me a check for my car and paid all medical bills. Man, I still miss that car..


A very high percentage of drivers in California is uninsured. Furthermore, they sometimes split the license plate set. They place one plate on two cars, thereby increasing the problem.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> wrong wrong wrong. Please give me your credentials as to how you come upon your philosophy.
> 
> Oh I know already, it is what is exposed by RED STATE!!! and other right wing publications.


Evidently you only read Left wing publications so get your head out of the sand & see the light!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why bother? Do you really want to spend your last days being nasty on a website? Is this what you call living a Christian life?
> I know that there is a Janeway that most of us don't get to see. She was really a nice person.


What a very hateful thing to say, but watch out I could out live you!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

If you have a seziure, I suggest you refrain from posting here and on the other politicial topics you are involved in until you feel you are back to normal. (whatver normal is for you. Only you can decide that, but I believe more people would respond to you in a more constructive way if they knew what was happening to you.

While it is unfortunate you have a seizure disorder, I'm sure you are strong enough to let everyone know what you are going through.


theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like. I certainly would take yout probleminto consideration if ypu let me know what's happening to you so I could avoid critisizing your rematks unfairly when they are influenced by your health problems.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

If you have a seziure, I suggest you refrain from posting here and on the other politicial topics you are involved in until you feel you are back to normal. (whatver normal is for you. Only you can decide that, but I believe more people would respond to you in a more constructive way if they knew what was happening to you.

While it is unfortunate you have a seizure disorder, I'm sure you are strong enough to let everyone know what you are going through.


theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like. I certainly would take yout probleminto consideration if ypu let me know what's happening to you so I could avoid critisizing your rematks unfairly when they are influenced by your health problems.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> PS as a bonus to me the words on here I can go back and reread and then response.
> 
> Also because I have a great hubby he stands by me and helps me find the words.
> 
> ...


Kudos to you for your effort! Stay strong.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> we ARE keeping our Insurance as is and pay less for RX Insurance. Anyone who had good coverage rather than some Junk Policy is in good shape and the others will be soon as well.


Thought you were a young person who has an employers insurance!

My insurance isn't junk as I don't have a co-pay for medical but do for RX's.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If you have a seziure, I suggest you refrain from posting here and on the other politicial topics you are involved in until you feel you are back to normal. (whatver normal is for you. Only you can decide that, but I believe more people would respond to you in a more constructive way if they knew what was happening to you.
> 
> While it is unfortunate you have a seizure disorder, I'm sure you are strong enough to let everyone know what you are going through.


Seattle, Yarnie has the right to post when & where she wants on KP, but you are the one who does not have the right as you have been very hateful.

You cut DonnieK to the bone then had the gall to laugh about it. You are the most stupid person I have ever run into in my life!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jokim said:


> A very high percentage of drivers in California is uninsured. Furthermore, they sometimes split the license plate set. They place one plate on two cars, thereby increasing the problem.


So what? People in California who don't have insurance are commiting a crime. I live in Califirnia myself, and the last thing I want to see is that my fellow Calfornians who are too cheap, criminal or stupid should get away from their responsibilitues becaus they somehow forgot to buy car insurance.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Right again, soloweygirl! After 5 yrs in office and 7 yrs of democrat controlled Congress, they are running out of people to blame.


I blame the republican obstructionists. It's very easy because it' say do-nothing bunch who haven't passed a law in ages.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> yes when she posted things you if you are so new would know. I havae a paper listing her mistakes as she seems to find it amusing to point out mine. So thank you for another person who has the brain the size of a pea and has all the answers to life.
> 
> Guess that is what makes you so proud and those others to be a Dem. and so consired about all those poor people.
> 
> God help those poor people that you care aabout if this is how you act as a human being.


I asked if you kept a spelling diary of the other person. Then you go off on this tangent.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I believe President Obama is very happy with the mess that came with the launching of Obamacare. He wants to eliminate the private insurance industry completely. This is his next step. Remember he wants to "fundamentally" change America.


Good


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Tried to make sense in response to someone who will never know what sense is.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Well, a masters degrees is achieved through study & long hours of research in your field but it appears you have trouble reading a few pages so there isn't any need for you to enroll in any university.


So I see this is your attempt at being hoity toity. I meant it to be something light. But you just had to crap all over it..


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey, does this make sense to you? It sounds nutty to the rest of us.



joeysomma said:


> I believe President Obama is very happy with the mess that came with the launching of Obamacare. He wants to eliminate the private insurance industry completely. This is his next step. Remember he wants to "fundamentally" change America.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I believe President Obama is very happy with the mess that came with the launching of Obamacare. He wants to eliminate the private insurance industry completely. This is his next step. Remember he wants to "fundamentally" change America.


Well, he better hurry up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga all til spells are cast on Halloween.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

damemary said:


> Bazinga all til spells are cast on Halloween.


Bazinga, I think it's something good, I hope.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janeway.....may I ask what you have accomplished with your masters degree?


Janeway said:


> Well, a masters degrees is achieved through study & long hours of research in your field but it appears you have trouble reading a few pages so there isn't any need for you to enroll in any university.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yes, Cynthia, welcome. :-D I have enjoyed and appreciated your posts. Please hang in here and don't let the compulsively argumentative folks get you down. And many thanks for letting us know your qualifiacations even though shouldn't need to do so.
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Who is to judge it is crap insurance. Individual insurance reflects what the person purchasing it wants. It doesn't mean it's crap. Maybe they could not afford anything better, but know they needed the insurance. They have/had a plan they could afford, just because it might not include what others think it should include, doesn't make it crap. That's just another Administration talking point. The ACA wants certain coverage for those that are uninsured. The ACA wants everyone to pay for those services, whether they want/need/require them. That is the only way this fiasco will work. Everyone has to pay so those that cannot afford to pay will have coverage.
> 
> I certainly don't consider 400-600M being "on the cheap". For that kind of money the website should have been up and running without security issues, without needing to be shutdown constantly and certainly without all the glitches. It must be that 400-600M is considered chump change in website creating circles, so I guess we got what we paid for.


"Crap" insurance is insurance that covers almost nothing, pays almost nothing for what they do cover, have very high co-pays and deductibles, and also denies coverage for a pre-existing condition.

Case in point: My son, age 29 at the time, healthy but went to the ER because of TMJ pain and once for an eye infection. At the time he was young and healthy and chose not to buy insurance because it was too expensive.

Well he was turning 30 and still not covered at work. So I forced him into buying a Horizon BCBS of NJ policy. Well, as a healthy person, his cheapest quote was $429. per month. From the website it seemed like OK coverage....25 co-pays, BUT 3500 annual deductibles!!! But when the policy came, there was a much longer list of what they did NOT cover than what they actually covered. My son basically bought a "junk" or "crap" policy because I was annoying him to get something!

Two weeks later he receives a letter from the insurance company stating that he was treated for TMJ and for an eye infection in the past. They further stated that there would be a TWO YEAR WAITING PERIOD WITH NOT TREATMENT FOR HIS TMJ OR HIS EYE before it would be covered by Horizon BC/BS of NJ!!! So he would have to pay $429. per month x 24 months ($10,296.) PLUS have a $3500 annual deductible before they would pay for a doctor's visit, tests, etc. for his TMJ or eye. Absolutely ridiculous!!! It was what was referred to as a "junk" or "crap" policy. It was not worth the paper it was written on.

So the ACA's purpose was to cover pre-existing conditions, and to cover basic visits and tests. EVERYONE needs well visits to the doctor to keep them healthy in the first place. You should not see the doctor just when you are sick. These office visits are preventative measures to "prevent" you from illness. In the long run people will know what is wrong with their health sooner, seek treatment, and then prevent themselves from getting a more severe illness which will cost more in lost earnings and treatment, especially from those who can not afford health care in the first place. This is why everyone needs to buy health insurance. It saves you money and saves your tax dollars in the long run too.

Those high premiums can be reduced by visiting Healthcare.gov if your state does NOT have an exchange, or by visiting your state exchange. You will have the chance to choose from different plans with different coverage choices at different price points. If you can't afford the premiums, then you can apply for a subsidy.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I believe President Obama is very happy with the mess that came with the launching of Obamacare. He wants to eliminate the private insurance industry completely. This is his next step. Remember he wants to "fundamentally" change America.


Having healthcare is a good thing!! I believe all of you so vehemently against the ACA are confusing it with single payer health insurance. That is the type of insurance they have in Europe and in Canada.

The ACA is NOT single payer health insurance. The insurance industry is not being shredded by the ACA.

BTW, why would you defend the insurance industry when they have been 'raping' all of their insured with astronomical premiums for services which cover almost nothing?


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> An insurance policy as with everything else is buyer beware. If you are not an educated buyer, you will be snowed by someone. That is why the ACA website is a joke.  No one in their right mind should give personal information to buy something unless all the details and prices are given so the person can make an informed decision. As a matter of fact it does not comply with a HIPPA law. (I'm not sure if that is the right acronym).
> 
> My statement is Obama wants to do away with all insurance companies, so he can have a single payer system. ACA is the first step. As long as ACA is a mess, he will press forward for his single payer system.


Have you been on the ACA site at Healthcare.gov? Well I have and it asks for NO personal medical information EXCEPT if you are a smoker or not. Asking for personal medical information would not be necessary to have because you are not denied insurance and you will not pay higher rates if you have a pre-existing condition.

More right wing scare tactics which have NO basis in facts.

Single payer will never be our insurance system. Too many people against it....both Dems & Reps alike, including me.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I blame the republican obstructionists. It's very easy because it' say do-nothing bunch who haven't passed a law in ages.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Remember, I also have a pre-existing condition.


Since you do have a pre-existing condition, why would you not be in favor of the ACA??

Prior to the ACA, losing your insurance for what ever reason would make you ineligible for most insurance coverage, or the premiums would be prohibitively high??

I just don't understand why people think and vote AGAINST their own self-interest?


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why are you happy that my insurance has increased while your has stayed the same--are you on Obama's Welfare insurance?


Having insurance at an affordable rate is not welfare insurance.

Oh I think you are referring to Medicaid insurance and its expansion under the ACA. FYI most people who receive Medicaid benefits, food stamps, etc. are poor white people living in rural America, children, the disabled, the mentally ill, the elderly, veterans, and here it comes.....minorities too. Most work 40-60 hours per week making minimum wage and can not afford to buy health insurance. So they use the ER for their treatment and you pay or that service in the form of higher insurance premiums because the hospitals pass their losses onto the insurance companies and they, in turn, pass their costs to you in the form of high premiums. Then, whatever they hospitals can't re-coop, they get billions of taxpayer dollars to cover their additional costs. So you pay one way or the other.

I believe the vast right wing agenda to paint those receiving social services as undeserving, lazy, mooching minorities has been a success in the public opinion while not having a basis in reality. As I said most are poor whites in rural America, the elderly, the disabled, the mentally ill, children, veterans, and minorities. MOST WORK LIKE YOU DO BUT WORK FOR MINIMUM WAGES.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> What a very hateful thing to say, but watch out I could out live you!


I don't know anything about you Janeway, but you seem to be saying with that comment that you are a senior citizen and could possibly be on Medicare?

If that is so, why are you so vehemently against other people getting health insurance through the ACA since you have cadillac health insurance provided to you??


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama's goal is single payer. Period.


Well I believe it will never happen and I do not think he wants that either.

Too many doctors to deal with. They want to get paid well and single payer would put them on a salary basis.

I for one would never support single payer....and I am a lib!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama's goal is single payer. Period.


Wrong again joey. If his goal was single payer, he would have achieved it. But it isn't so why worry about that?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Since you do have a pre-existing condition, why would you not be in favor of the ACA??
> 
> Prior to the ACA, losing your insurance for what ever reason would make you ineligible for most insurance coverage, or the premiums would be prohibitively high??
> 
> I just don't understand why people think and vote AGAINST their own self-interest?


Because they are programmed by the far right wing to think that this will harm them in some way ie; death panels, outlandish premiums, etc .Another reason is most of them don't think.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because they are programmed by the far right wing to think that this will harm them in some way ie; death panels, outlandish premiums, etc .Another reason is most of them don't think.


Patty, I agree with your reasoning......and isn't it sad? It's like someone intent on jumping off a cliff. As someone wise once said, "You can't save all the puppies, just some."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did someone run over your dog, Jane? You are awfully snippy tonight.


Tonight? You forget, she is one of the bullies that so many threads have been about. 
She can dish it out,yet she certainly cannot take it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You got that right. However her replies are so weak to be laughable. On second thought, it's such a weak position I guess she should get credit for trying.



jelun2 said:


> Tonight? You forget, she is one of the bullies that so many threads have been about.
> She can dish it out,yet she certainly cannot take it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I believe President Obama is very happy with the mess that came with the launching of Obamacare. He wants to eliminate the private insurance industry completely. This is his next step. Remember he wants to "fundamentally" change America.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> An insurance policy as with everything else is buyer beware. If you are not an educated buyer, you will be snowed by someone. That is why the ACA website is a joke. No one in their right mind should give personal information to buy something unless all the details and prices are given so the person can make an informed decision. As a matter of fact it does not comply with a HIPPA law. (I'm not sure if that is the right acronym).
> 
> My statement is Obama wants to do away with all insurance companies, so he can have a single payer system. ACA is the first step. As long as ACA is a mess, he will press forward for his single payer system.


Right! All to ruin America.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Will you believe his own words? Watch the video before you comment.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/


Oh, my! He is terrible. His master plan all along. He is so much worse than I thought. He is destroying our country. 
Please, please let ACA be destroyed.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty wrote:
Wrong again joey. If his goal was single payer, he would have achieved it. But it isn't so why worry about that?


LOL, World Net Daily joey presents us with.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D


Is that cute little dog one you are house sitting for?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I did not say what I said last for sympathy. It was said to point out how the left feels free to mention my name and hint at my illness even when I was not on site to attack me. It has been done to many times and most I have not answer too. 
But the last one was it. As she knows she has done it before and really loves to do it. 

I was told family is off limits and I apologize for it.

But it seems that you all feel the right to pick on me for that. telling others on the right to join me remember??? Some of you have also made fun of others families and guess that is o.k. right.

When someone calls me dear to be nasty I will response as to the women . Boston Bombs born in another country but the country mention was the USA. That is what am trying to tell you. 

As to the top of the mountain to thy own self be true.

Also using initials Yes we do know the meaning's and so do the others who read the politic post on KP and do not comment but know they are swear words.

I spent Tuesday being nice thinking maybe we could find common ground until DameMary and the Dear words then The next person who found it necessary to mention my illness.

I can live with my illiness as have said there are poeple who have worst things happen to them. 

As to me posting on any site, I know my limits. I will do what I want to and do not needed someone to tell me what I can and can't do. That's why I have a Doctor.

As to changing your names all the time. All can see that and what you are doing. It is not hard to figure out who is who. All one has to do is read what you post your personalitys always come threw.

I have more I could say about what you deem to do is right, and others have no rights to do it back at you.

But enough of this crap.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I do not believe you watched the video. Obama in his own words stated his goal was single payer, But it would take 10, 15 or even 20 years to achieve it.
> 
> Did you believe Obama when he said, If you like your insurance you can keep it, period? I guess if he was lying about that, he is probably lying about this too.


Of course I didn't watch the video. I used to get WND in my email just for yuks and giggles until the ads outweighed the humor. 
I am not going to go over the same points you have been making since what ever site you visited told you that was important. 
Enjoy your Halloween.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I did not say what I said last for sympathy. It was said to point out how the left feels free to mention my name and hint at my illness even when I was not on site to attack me. It has been done to many times and most I have not answer too.
> But the last one was it. As she knows she has done it before and really loves to do it.
> 
> I was told family is off limits and I apologize for it.
> ...


Yarnie?
Nussa wasn't telling you what to do, she was questioning,and expressing understanding I think, the point of hanging in there for discussions that will be the same next week. 
That is not exactly what she was saying, just trying to lighten up a bit. That was her point, though, all of us get stuck in trying to score. Most of us it just injures our spirit, for you it might actually be injurious to your health. Just be careful, OK?
We ALL say things that we should regret after they are down on the post. That doesn't mean all of us do or that we will have an all around apology fest. 
We need to take the stuff thrown out here with a grain of salt. 
And now, I am going to have a cup of coffee and then shower.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Will you believe his own words? Watch the video before you comment.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/


http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I do not believe you watched the video. Obama in his own words stated his goal was single payer, But it would take 10, 15 or even 20 years to achieve it.
> 
> Did you believe Obama when he said, If you like your insurance you can keep it, period? I guess if he was lying about that, he is probably lying about this too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Of course I didn't watch the video. I used to get WND in my email just for yuks and giggles until the ads outweighed the humor.
> I am not going to go over the same points you have been making since what ever site you visited told you that was important.
> Enjoy your Halloween.


Why don't you want to hear your president speaking? It is him talking. Don't stay in the dark. Open your eyes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why don't you want to hear your president speaking? It is him talking. Don't stay in the dark. Open your eyes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why don't you want to hear your president speaking? It is him talking. Don't stay in the dark. Open your eyes.


My eyes are wide open, I see all of the people who have been swayed by the propaganda bought by the profiteers in order to convince them that their own self interest should be subordinate to the interests of a plutocracy. 
Do you ever question why someone like Sheldon Adelson is willing to spend so much to influence one political campaign? Do you ever wonder why an organization like Americans for Prosperity care about local elections in small municipalities?

http://left.mn/2012/11/koch-brothers-local-election-spending-reaches-absurd-apogee/

http://www.ci.lakeville.mn.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=805


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Are you afraid of what Obama's plans are? You are unwilling to see if your idol is really a monster in disguise?


Has Halloween gotten to you?
If not, seriously, you need to go to a psychiatrist. 
It is one thing to disagree politically, it is quite another to see anything that the other end of the political spectrum says or does as evil and monstrous. 
You folks on the right who have been reaching out? Please, talk to this one?


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> I don't know anything about you Janeway, but you seem to be saying with that comment that you are a senior citizen and could possibly be on Medicare?
> 
> If that is so, why are you so vehemently against other people getting health insurance through the ACA since you have cadillac health insurance provided to you??


Is she sitting pretty and doesn't want anyone else to have the same thing? Can't say for sure, but that is what it seems to be.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why are you so interested in the Koch Brothers in MN?
> Neither one is the President of the United States. Only the President can sign a piece of paper and take away your rights, and you are not interested enough to listen to what he says?
> 
> You have no idea what rights he can take away with his signature, if he decides to do it.


It is called the UNITED States of America.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Cynthia's dog is just too cute.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you afraid of what Obama's plans are? You are unwilling to see if your idol is really a monster in disguise?


He has consistently lied. It is so obvious. She is brainwashed or something. Perhaps she is black and that is the reason she closes her eyes. If she is black, we are experiencing racism towards us. Food for thought.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> He has consistently lied. It is so obvious. She is brainwashed or something. Perhaps she is black and that is the reason she closes her eyes. If she is black, we are experiencing racism towards us. Food for thought.


OMG!!! Someone is black! (joking) Help, the sky is falling....a-hahahahahahahahahaha. :twisted:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> OMG!!! Someone is black! (joking) Help, the sky is falling....a-hahahahahahahahahaha. :twisted:


LOL, and having the opportunity to read what an African American thinks would, without a doubt, be experiencing racism. 
Geez Louise.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

First: Don't call me a leftie, rightie, Dem, or Rep....or any of the other so called political monickers you place on people who don't agree with you. You can keep those snide remarks to yourself....It's a sign of a childish mind.......Ok...Country Bumpkins.......I watched the whole thing...And I agreed with everything they said. I already pay a private insurance company for my insurance, and they take us for everything they can get, and give us as little as they can get by with. I for one would like to see some regulations on what insurance companies can charge. Some of you say you hardly ever have to go to the Dr. What happens when you have a major medical emergency? If you are a person with any sense at all, you know you can't be without medical insurance. Unless you are on welfare and don't have to worry about it, and expect the rest of us to pay for you. I pay for enough slackers already. And when I say slackers, I am not talking about the honest people who are genuinely in need of medical help and can't get it for honest reasons. As far as I'm concerned it's time for everyone to pay their fair share the way I pay mine. 
They said it may take a long time to get it implemented......possibly 20 years. (And as it's been fought by some every step of the way, it will likely take much longer, but that's not the President's fault) So why don't you just wait to see what's going to happen. You can't change it. You will HAVE to buy your own insurance or pay the fine. It's the law. So B&M all you want, you can't change the law...and it doesn't look like others who have tried can either.......quote=Country Bumpkins]http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO[/quote]


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> OMG!!! Someone is black! (joking) Help, the sky is falling....a-hahahahahahahahahaha. :twisted:


Who remembers that very old joke

A white man is only a black man turned inside out.

I did say it was a joke, but i am heading for the hills just in case someone does not see it as a joke and takes offense. Please.......no offene meant.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> My eyes are wide open, I see all of the people who have been swayed by the propaganda bought by the profiteers in order to convince them that their own self interest should be subordinate to the interests of a plutocracy.
> Do you ever question why someone like Sheldon Adelson is willing to spend so much to influence one political campaign? Do you ever wonder why an organization like Americans for Prosperity care about local elections in small municipalities?
> 
> http://left.mn/2012/11/koch-brothers-local-election-spending-reaches-absurd-apogee/
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Is that a question or a statement?


joeysomma said:


> Obama's own words are not propaganda.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Who remembers that very old joke
> 
> A white man is only a black man turned inside out.
> 
> I did say it was a joke, but i am heading for the hills just in case someone does not see it as a joke and takes offense. Please.......no offene meant.


Honestly, I had never heard that before. I did think that this was interesting. I found it in my search for the "inversion" joke.

http://www.pitt.edu/~hirtle/uujec/white.html

How the Irish Became White
Art McDonald, Ph.D.
Several weeks ago I participated in a three day anti-racism training workshop which was conducted here in Pittsburgh. The facilitators were Rev. Joe Brandt, Executive Director of Crossroads Ministry, and Ms. Barbara Jordan, a community organizer and educator from the Peoples Institute for Survival and Beyond, a New Orleans' based sister organization to Crossroads. Besides providing a very excellent and intense experience of just how systemic racism is in our society, on a more personal level it was a very rich reunion with these two highly skilled and committed trainers. I had spent a day with Barbara down in New Orleans during the UU Urban Church weekend this past January and she had a very good feeling about UUs. She was delighted to meet someone from Pittsburgh who "had eaten her food, in her community." Just as delightfully, Joe and I realized that we had shared a ministerial experience some years back in the South Bronx. We learned and talked about all of our mutual friends. What a treat for me. Crossroads Ministry is the group which Mel Hoover has collaborated with in developing our UU anti-racist training experiences, so there were nice personal connections all around.

Early on in the workshop there was an exercise which focused on "cultural racism and white cultural identity." Whites in the workshop were asked to talk about white culture. Most couldn't or wouldn't. The expression meant nothing to me. Nevertheless, we all struggled with it. As time went on we discovered that, in a sense, it was a trick question. The facilitators wanted the whites to struggle and to discover that the expression did have little or no content. Racial designations, white and black, are totally social constructs. "What then," they asked, "would you say about your culture? How would you define your culture and your relationship to it?" Though most of the whites had a difficult time talking about her/his culture - some resisted pretty strenuously - the trainers took a clear stand: if whites are to come to the multi-cultural table, they - we - must reclaim our individual cultural backgrounds. In many ways, we were reminded, African Americans are way ahead of European Americans in retaining their cultural identities.

In a sense, the exercise wasn't as tough for me as for some others. I immediately thought of Boston, Irish and Catholic. It was clear to me that's where this UU had to start; the music, the humor, the food - as limited as the menu is - the faith, the working class, it was all there. I was having a good time; it felt very good on many levels. In a conversation later in the workshop, Joe mentioned a recently published book entitled "How the Irish Became White." It's a book about Irish emigration, race, class and U.S. labor history. I knew immediately I had to get a copy and find out just what it was about.

It was a tough read. It was a story of primarily Irish Catholic emigration before and after the potato famine - roughly 1840 to the Civil War - and that people's struggle to survive in this white, Protestant world. It's a sympathetic yet tragic story of how race has been a defining characteristic in U.S. culture and how the race question has also plagued the white working class in this country. One might say that it is a story of how the Irish exchanged their greenness for whiteness, and collaborated with the dominant white culture to continue the oppression of African Americans.

Ironically, Irish Catholics came to this country as an oppressed race yet quickly learned that to succeed they had to in turn oppress their closest social class competitors, free Northern blacks. Back home these "native Irish or papists" suffered something very similar to American slavery under English Penal Laws. Yet, despite their revolutionary roots as an oppressed group fighting for freedom and rights, and despite consistent pleas from the great Catholic emancipator, Daniel O'Connell, to support the abolitionists, the newly arrived Irish-Americans judged that the best way of gaining acceptance as good citizens and to counter the Nativist movement was to cooperate in the continued oppression of African Americans. Ironically, at the same time they were collaborating with the dominant culture to block abolition, they were garnering support from among Southern, slaveholding democrats for Repeal of the oppressive English Act of the Union back home. Some even convinced themselves that abolition was an English plot to weaken this country.

Upon hearing of this position on the part of so many of his fellow countrymen now residing in the United States, in 1843 O'Connell wrote: "Over the broad Atlantic I pour forth my voice, saying, come out of such a land, you Irishmen; or, if you remain, and dare countenance the system of slavery that is supported there, we will recognize you as Irishmen no longer." It's a tragic story. In a letter published in the Liberator in 1854, it was stated that "passage to the United States seems to produce the same effect upon the exile of Erin as the eating of the forbidden fruit did upon Adam and Eve. In the morning, they were pure, loving, and innocent; in the evening, guilty."

Irish and Africans Americans had lots in common and lots of contact during this period; they lived side by side and shared work spaces. In the early years of immigration the poor Irish and blacks were thrown together, very much part of the same class competing for the same jobs. In the census of 1850, the term mulatto appears for the first time due primarily to inter-marriage between Irish and African Americans. The Irish were often referred to as "******* turned inside out and ******* as smoked Irish." A famous quip of the time attributed to a black man went something like this: "My master is a great tyrant, he treats me like a common Irishman." Free blacks and Irish were viewed by the Nativists as related, somehow similar, performing the same tasks in society. It was felt that if amalgamation between the races was to happen, it would happen between Irish and blacks. But, ultimately, the Irish made the decision to embrace whiteness, thus becoming part of the system which dominated and oppressed blacks. Although it contradicted their experience back home, it meant freedom here since blackness meant slavery.

An article by a black writer in an 1860 edition of the Liberator explained how the Irish ultimately attained their objectives: "Fifteen or twenty years ago, a Catholic priest in Philadelphia said to the Irish people in that city, 'You are all poor, and chiefly laborers, the blacks are poor laborers; many of the native whites are laborers; now, if you wish to succeed, you must do everything that they do, no matter how degrading, and do it for less than they can afford to do it for.' The Irish adopted this plan; they lived on less than the Americans could live upon, and worked for less, and the result is, that nearly all the menial employments are monopolized by the Irish, who now get as good prices as anybody. There were other avenues open to American white men, and though they have suffered much, the chief support of the Irish has come from the places from which we have been crowded."

Once the Irish secured themselves in those jobs, they made sure blacks were kept out. They realized that as long as they continued to work alongside blacks, they would be considered no different. Later, as Irish became prominent in the labor movement, African Americans were excluded from participation. In fact, one of the primary themes of How the Irish Became White is the way in which left labor historians, such as the highly acclaimed Herbert Gutman, have not paid sufficient attention to the problem of race in the development of the labor movement.

And so, we have the tragic story of how one oppressed "race," Irish Catholics, learned how to collaborate in the oppression of another "race," Africans in America, in order to secure their place in the white republic. Becoming white meant losing their greenness, i.e., their Irish cultural heritage and the legacy of oppression and discrimination back home. Imagine if the Irish had remained green after their arrival and formed an alliance with their fellow oppressed co-workers, the free blacks of the North. Imagine if they had chosen to include their black brothers and sisters in the union movement to wage a class battle against the dominant white culture which ruthlessly pitted them against one another.

Oh that there had been other Irish Americans such as the soldiers from St. Patrick's Battalion who fought on the side of Mexico in the War of 1848, who did remain green and fought against oppression. So perhaps we Irish in America must reclaim our greenness and, perhaps, our anti-racism trainers are right that we all must reclaim our cultural heritage and bring it to the multicultural table. The only stipulation is that we do it in a decidedly anti-racist manner and in solidarity with oppressed classes of people. Maybe we can all share in the sentiment proclaimed in the 1991 movie about Dublin, "The Commitments," when it was stated that "The Irish are the blacks of Europe, so say it loud, I'm black and I'm proud."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art McDonald is the Social Advocacy Directory at Allegheny Unitarian Universalist Church


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Would you like me to out the KP member who did what I described to my Ravelry topic or would you prefer just letting me float my boat? One of your friends in the poitical topics would be hurt by being outed here, though doing so would prove what I said is true.


What I would like you do to you wouldn't do. That being said, do whatever you plan on doing. It makes no difference to me. I care absolutely nothing about a person that says she will say whatever she wants to another person and if those words bring on a seizure, then she'll apologize. You are truly an ugly, disgusting human being. I have absolutely no use for you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What I would like you do to you wouldn't do. That being said, do whatever you plan on doing. It makes no difference to me. I care absolutely nothing about a person that says she will say whatever she wants to another person and if those words bring on a seizure, then she'll apologize. You are truly an ugly, disgusting human being. I have absolutely no use for you.


Are you now claiming that we are not only a socialist block in providing health care for each other, but, that we are responsible for each person's ability or lack of same to determine limitations of our physical well being?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, the President's approval rating is still dropping, and I cannot wait to see where he stands a month from now. I'm starting to believe that he'll not recover from his "lying" scandal as quickly as he has from *all* his other scandals. His lies were so succinct, he cannot deny he said them repeatedly.
> 
> The President really stepped into it this time and finally the faux journalists are carrying the story on their channels too.


I believe Obama decided on how he wanted to sell the ACA and stuck with it and was still at it last month. Otherwise, his people would have advised him that he should't make that sales pitch. Obama does things his way and all others either conform or are let go, period.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I would like to remind you that one never knows when one will need his/her health insurance. It's INSURANCE.


Not knowing would only cover the catastrophic part. The other parts are used every time one goes to the doctor's office.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> OMG!!! Someone is black! (joking) Help, the sky is falling....a-hahahahahahahahahaha. :twisted:


If you are referring to me I am a white woman, and I have expressed this before, approaching 60 years old. I have my views because as a retired teacher you meet people of all colors, races, religions, etc. There is good and bad in all.

The NY/NJ area is not a homogenized area. We are exposed to every culture imaginable and see the good and the bad.

So I try my best not to judge people based on preconceived stereotyping and to keep an open mind.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Nussa said:


> First: Don't call me a leftie, rightie, Dem, or Rep....or any of the other so called political monickers you place on people who don't agree with you. You can keep those snide remarks to yourself....It's a sign of a childish mind.......Ok...Country Bumpkins.......I watched the whole thing...And I agreed with everything they said. I already pay a private insurance company for my insurance, and they take us for everything they can get, and give us as little as they can get by with. I for one would like to see some regulations on what insurance companies can charge. Some of you say you hardly ever have to go to the Dr. What happens when you have a major medical emergency? If you are a person with any sense at all, you know you can't be without medical insurance. Unless you are on welfare and don't have to worry about it, and expect the rest of us to pay for you. I pay for enough slackers already. And when I say slackers, I am not talking about the honest people who are genuinely in need of medical help and can't get it for honest reasons. As far as I'm concerned it's time for everyone to pay their fair share the way I pay mine.
> They said it may take a long time to get it implemented......possibly 20 years. (And as it's been fought by some every step of the way, it will likely take much longer, but that's not the President's fault) So why don't you just wait to see what's going to happen. You can't change it. You will HAVE to buy your own insurance or pay the fine. It's the law. So B&M all you want, you can't change the law...and it doesn't look like others who have tried can either.......quote=Country Bumpkins]http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO


[/quote]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I want to clear up something for all of you who think you know what my life is really like.
> 
> I had a grand mall seizure, the worst kind to have.
> 
> ...


I can't wait to read the onslaught of I'm sorry's that will emerge shortly. They've already exhibited their true colors, but will now go for the 180 turn-around. Those that have known about your condition certainly don't let it get in the way of their "normal" behavior and could care less how you would react.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO


This video is available on YouTube and was videoed in 2003 I believe, way before he became President.

The President feels so strongly about Universal Health Care because he mother died of cancer. She could not afford to purchase really good insurance to get treatment. So the cancer killed her at a very young age.

He believes NO ONE should die because they can not afford to get good quality health insurance and treatment especially for serious conditions such as cancer.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama's goal is single payer. Period.


Have you been on the website in your state or on Healthcare.gov? You will see that no personal medical information is requested with the only thing asked is whether you are a smoker or not.

As to the President and single payer, the video which is on various right wing websites, is made to appear that is is current but in actuality it was filmed in 2003 way before he became President. There is a clip on Youtube I believe.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> If you are referring to me I am a white woman, and I have expressed this before, approaching 60 years old. I have my views because as a retired teacher you meet people of all colors, races, religions, etc. There is good and bad in all.
> 
> The NY/NJ area is not a homogenized area. We are exposed to every culture imaginable and see the good and the bad.
> 
> So I try my best not to judge people based on preconceived stereotyping and to keep an open mind.


No, it wasn't for you. I just found who my reply was for:

"Lukelucy wrote:
He has consistently lied. It is so obvious. She is brainwashed or something. Perhaps she is black and that is the reason she closes her eyes. If she is black, we are experiencing racism towards us. Food for thought."


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Will you believe his own words? Watch the video before you comment.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/


Again, that video was taken in 2003, is not current, and is available on Youtube.

I believe his position has evolved since he became president and he is no longer in favor of single payer. It is a complete non-starter AND if he really wanted it, when he became President, had the House and the Senate with Dem majorities, then he would have implemented single payer. But he did not.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Again, that video was taken in 2003, is not current, and is available on Youtube.
> 
> I believe his position has evolved since he became president and he is no longer in favor of single payer. It is a complete non-starter AND if he really wanted it, when he became President, had the House and the Senate with Dem majorities, then he would have implemented single payer. But he did not.


Right, he made this deal with the private for profit insurance industry so quickly it made heads spin and people get really POed.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because they are programmed by the far right wing to think that this will harm them in some way ie; death panels, outlandish premiums, etc .Another reason is most of them don't think.


true!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Is that cute little dog one you are house sitting for?


I think that was said with sarcasm and I do not know why??? I don't think I have every responded to any of your posts, so I am confused???

That is my baby, Rocky, a 3 yr old yorkie, and my home.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> Cynthia's dog is just too cute.


Thank you!!! That's my 3 yr old yorkie, Rocky!!! :-D


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> If you are referring to me I am a white woman, and I have expressed this before, approaching 60 years old. I have my views because as a retired teacher you meet people of all colors, races, religions, etc. There is good and bad in all.
> 
> The NY/NJ area is not a homogenized area. We are exposed to every culture imaginable and see the good and the bad.
> 
> So I try my best not to judge people based on preconceived stereotyping and to keep an open mind.


I was not referring to you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> "Crap" insurance is insurance that covers almost nothing, pays almost nothing for what they do cover, have very high co-pays and deductibles, and also denies coverage for a pre-existing condition.
> 
> Case in point: My son, age 29 at the time, healthy but went to the ER because of TMJ pain and once for an eye infection. At the time he was young and healthy and chose not to buy insurance because it was too expensive.
> 
> ...


Not everyone will qualify for the subsidies.

So your son bought a crap policy, he got what he paid for. He also didn't want to have insurance so didn't care at the time. He did it to get you off his back.

Just because people don't want certain options in their policies, doesn't mean they are junk policies. There are people out there that do buy crap policies, some because they want to do the responsible thing and have insurance and that is all they can afford. There are all kinds of reasons. What is increasing the prices for the individuals is what is mandated to be in the policy. Someone else decided what has to be included in the coverage, whether the individual wants that coverage or not. Of course the price will be higher. Not everyone wants maternity coverage, pediatric care, substance abuse rehab, etc. Why do they HAVE to pay for that? It all comes down to paying for someone else. This whole healthcare system will collapse if not enough young, healthy people pick up the tab. This obviously isn't happening if Obama was still out selling Obamacare right up to October 1.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> I think that was said with sarcasm and I do not know why??? I don't think I have every responded to any of your posts, so I am confused???
> 
> That is my baby, Rocky, a 3 yr old yorkie, and my home.


No I was being nice. I thought you were the person that keeps dogs. Sorry. I just thought your yorkie is cute. I have terriers.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Since 2009, Obama's policies have widened the gap between the rich and the poor. We can't collect enough in taxes to cover his spending. We are spending money that future generations have not earned yet. The disappearing middle class is collateral damage in the left's war on American culture and way of life. Perhaps it is the goal.


So tell me, what has President Obama spent money on that congress hasn't authorized?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> First: Don't call me a leftie, rightie, Dem, or Rep....or any of the other so called political monickers you place on people who don't agree with you. You can keep those snide remarks to yourself....It's a sign of a childish mind.......Ok...Country Bumpkins.......I watched the whole thing...And I agreed with everything they said. I already pay a private insurance company for my insurance, and they take us for everything they can get, and give us as little as they can get by with. I for one would like to see some regulations on what insurance companies can charge. Some of you say you hardly ever have to go to the Dr. What happens when you have a major medical emergency? If you are a person with any sense at all, you know you can't be without medical insurance. Unless you are on welfare and don't have to worry about it, and expect the rest of us to pay for you. I pay for enough slackers already. And when I say slackers, I am not talking about the honest people who are genuinely in need of medical help and can't get it for honest reasons. As far as I'm concerned it's time for everyone to pay their fair share the way I pay mine.
> They said it may take a long time to get it implemented......possibly 20 years. (And as it's been fought by some every step of the way, it will likely take much longer, but that's not the President's fault) So why don't you just wait to see what's going to happen. You can't change it. You will HAVE to buy your own insurance or pay the fine. It's the law. So B&M all you want, you can't change the law...and it doesn't look like others who have tried can either.......quote=Country Bumpkins]http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO


[/quote]
Are you talking to me? I don't call anyone names I just posted a link. Can't post a link or say someones dog is cute without being jumped onto.
:shock:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Right again, soloweygirl! After 5 yrs in office and 7 yrs of democrat controlled Congress, they are running out of people to blame.


A democrat controlled congress? The democrats had control for only 4 months. What world are you living in?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Are you talking to me? I don't call anyone names I just posted a link. Can't post a link or say someones dog is cute without being jumped onto.
> :shock:


I think you are talking to the wrong person I didn't say any of the things you said.
:?:


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> So tell me, what has President Obama spent money on that congress hasn't authorized?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> A democrat controlled congress? The democrats had control for only 4 months. What world are you living in?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Not everyone will qualify for the subsidies.
> 
> So your son bought a crap policy, he got what he paid for. He also didn't want to have insurance so didn't care at the time. He did it to get you off his back.
> 
> Just because people don't want certain options in their policies, doesn't mean they are junk policies. There are people out there that do buy crap policies, some because they want to do the responsible thing and have insurance and that is all they can afford. There are all kinds of reasons. What is increasing the prices for the individuals is what is mandated to be in the policy. Someone else decided what has to be included in the coverage, whether the individual wants that coverage or not. Of course the price will be higher. Not everyone wants maternity coverage, pediatric care, substance abuse rehab, etc. Why do they HAVE to pay for that? It all comes down to paying for someone else. This whole healthcare system will collapse if not enough young, healthy people pick up the tab. This obviously isn't happening if Obama was still out selling Obamacare right up to October 1.


You are missing the point of the entire discussion. The point is that insurance companies sold policies which were, in essence, worthless. They covered almost nothing, and what they did cover was so restrictive that they rarely paid. FYI these are the policies which are being canceled due to not having the basic requirements of preventative care.

It puzzles me as to why someone would want to continue to buy policies that did not cover the basics of care, doctor's visits, tests, etc. and want to continue to buy a policy where the insurance companies rob them of their money while giving them nothing in return??

Why would someone NOT want to buy insurance with the hard money they have worked for that actually covered doctor's visits, tests, etc????

I just don't understand why people would want to spend their money and get less for their money.

I equate this as someone who buys a mop in the dollar store and it lasts 1 wk and breaks, while someone else buys a mop in a retail store for $1.25 and it lasts 6 mos to a year. The second buyer paid a little more for her mop but got much more use out of it than the person who bargain shopped and bought a mop that was essentially worthless. That is the difference between the new requirements of the ACA and the so called "junk" or "crap" policies!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> First: Don't call me a leftie, rightie, Dem, or Rep....or any of the other so called political monickers you place on people who don't agree with you. You can keep those snide remarks to yourself....It's a sign of a childish mind.......Ok...Country Bumpkins.......I watched the whole thing...And I agreed with everything they said. I already pay a private insurance company for my insurance, and they take us for everything they can get, and give us as little as they can get by with. I for one would like to see some regulations on what insurance companies can charge. Some of you say you hardly ever have to go to the Dr. What happens when you have a major medical emergency? If you are a person with any sense at all, you know you can't be without medical insurance. Unless you are on welfare and don't have to worry about it, and expect the rest of us to pay for you. I pay for enough slackers already. And when I say slackers, I am not talking about the honest people who are genuinely in need of medical help and can't get it for honest reasons. As far as I'm concerned it's time for everyone to pay their fair share the way I pay mine.
> They said it may take a long time to get it implemented......possibly 20 years. (And as it's been fought by some every step of the way, it will likely take much longer, but that's not the President's fault) So why don't you just wait to see what's going to happen. You can't change it. You will HAVE to buy your own insurance or pay the fine. It's the law. So B&M all you want, you can't change the law...and it doesn't look like others who have tried can either.......quote=Country Bumpkins]http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/29/Flashback-Obama-s-Campaign-to-Transition-to-Single-Payer-Health-Care-VIDEO


[/quote]

Obama has already changed the law. The corporate mandate has been postponed. Many have received waivers and now Congress is trying to get their immediate staff out of complying. Yes, the law can be changed it seems with the stroke of a pen.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> No, it wasn't for you. I just found who my reply was for:
> 
> "Lukelucy wrote:
> He has consistently lied. It is so obvious. She is brainwashed or something. Perhaps she is black and that is the reason she closes her eyes. If she is black, we are experiencing racism towards us. Food for thought."


Sorry I responded to the wrong poster.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No I was being nice. I thought you were the person that keeps dogs. Sorry. I just thought your yorkie is cute. I have terriers.


Thanks for the clarification!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Thanks for the clarification!!


 :thumbup:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> A democrat controlled congress? The democrats had control for only 4 months. What world are you living in?


They have their own set of facts because they live their life in a bubble, such as quoting WND, Breibart, and other false, laughable website claiming all sorts of the most ridiculous things.

I bet all of the posters supporting those sites and treating what they say as gospel are also "birthers"!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Are you now claiming that we are not only a socialist block in providing health care for each other, but, that we are responsible for each person's ability or lack of same to determine limitations of our physical well being?


I am stating that Seattle is an ugly, disgusting excuse for a human being. She knows of Yarnie's condition, yet she will respond to her in anyway she sees fit no matter what. Seattle will then apologize only when her words cause Yarnie to have a seizure. As I stated, I have no use for people like her.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> This video is available on YouTube and was videoed in 2003 I believe, way before he became President.
> 
> The President feels so strongly about Universal Health Care because he mother died of cancer. She could not afford to purchase really good insurance to get treatment. So the cancer killed her at a very young age.
> 
> He believes NO ONE should die because they can not afford to get good quality health insurance and treatment especially for serious conditions such as cancer.


That's not true. His mother was working at the time and had health insurance. It was Obama's fabricated story that she had no coverage. Just one of many stories that he used selling his plan.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> A democrat controlled congress? The democrats had control for only 4 months. What world are you living in?


Democrats controlled congress from 2006-2010. What world are you living in?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Why are you so interested in the Koch Brothers in MN?
> Neither one is the President of the United States. Only the President can sign a piece of paper and take away your rights, and you are not interested enough to listen to what he says?
> 
> You have no idea what rights he can take away with his signature, if he decides to do it.


Well why don't you tell me what rights he can take away. The Koch brothers have way more power with their money than our president has because he is trying to work with republicans who just want to obstruct everything he does. The Koch brothers buy anything they want and they own a lot of republicans right now. You think they hand over their billions without getting something in return.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I am stating that Seattle is an ugly, disgusting excuse for a human being. She knows of Yarnie's condition, yet she will respond to her in anyway she sees fit no matter what. Seattle will then apologize only when her words cause Yarnie to have a seizure. As I stated, I have no use for people like her.


Ridiculous. Whatever happened to the conservative mantra of looking out for oneself and taking responsibility for one's own actions? If the rough and tumble of the political threads might cause Yarnie to have a seizure then Yarnie should stay away.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> You are missing the point of the entire discussion. The point is that insurance companies sold policies which were, in essence, worthless. They covered almost nothing, and what they did cover was so restrictive that they rarely paid. FYI these are the policies which are being canceled due to not having the basic requirements of preventative care.
> 
> It puzzles me as to why someone would want to continue to buy policies that did not cover the basics of care, doctor's visits, tests, etc. and want to continue to buy a policy where the insurance companies rob them of their money while giving them nothing in return??
> 
> ...


I get that some policies are crap and stated as much. What I'm saying is why does anyone have to purchase options that they do not want, that are of no use to them, just because someone else says they must? This is what t he ACA is requiring. It doesn't mean that all of the policies being cancelled are crap. It does mean that individuals are being told how they have to spend their hard earned money.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> They have their own set of facts because they live their life in a bubble, such as quoting WND, Breibart, and other false, laughable website claiming all sorts of the most ridiculous things.
> 
> I bet all of the posters supporting those sites and treating what they say as gospel are also "birthers"!!


OMG, who died and made you the the website expert?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL

PLEASE READ!!


Wonder Land 

Henninger: Progressive Government Fails

Obama's ideology is the politics of the personal cram down. 

By 
Daniel Henninger 

A reader remarked last week that Barack Obama is running out of human shields. With the father of ObamaCare unavailable to explain the greatest fiasco of his presidency to Congress, the American people had to settle Wednesday for his surrogate, Kathleen Sebelius. 

Let us try to understand clearly what is happening now with the Obama presidency. On display to everyone watching this week is not merely the failure of a federal website or a software program or Ms. Sebelius's management skills. This is the failure of the very idea of progressive government. Not liberal government. Progressive government. 

That battle a few weeks ago over the government shutdown was a familiar Beltway spectacle. But what is happening this week to ObamaCare and the political class that created it is historic. Forty years from now, the millennials who in 2008 and 2012 believed in and voted for the progressive ideallimitless, mandated, state-led goodnesscan tell their grandchildren they watched it fall apart in 2013. This is the glitch that failed. 

In the 1990s, the American left, burdened with 90 years of unfortunate left-wing metaphors, rebranded itself in the U.S. as the "progressive movement." Teddy Roosevelt invokes cheerier memories than Leon Trotsky. In the 2008 U.S. presidential election, the left rode to power with Barack Obama.

Mr. Obama is, without embarrassment, a man of the left. American progressives saw their win with Mr. Obama as the overthrowing of the postwar Democratic liberalism that culminated with the Clintons, a liberalism willing most of the time to coexist with markets, property and private enterprise. Progressives hated these accommodations. They were purer than that. He was purer than that. Together, they created ObamaCare. 

What made ObamaCare an exemplar of progressive politics and policy is precisely what has been on view this week in news stories and the Sebelius hearing. It's not that the health program was to be administered by the state or that it promised benefits to all. Liberalism did that for decades. What made it peculiarly progressive were the mandates. And not just the law's individual and business mandates to purchase their insurance. The essence of modern Democratic progressivism is: "You will participate in what we have created for you, and you will comply with the law's demands."

Nothing could have been more crystal clear than the explanation for all the canceled insurance policies from the White House's Jay Carney, the bland face of progressive coercion: "What the president said and what everybody said all along is that there are going to be changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act to create minimum standards of coverage, minimum services that every insurance plan has to provide. So it's true that there are existing health-care plans on the individual market that don't meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act." 

If this White House and its progressive ecosystem have a political motto, it's this: Get over it. 

American progressivism is politics by cramdown. Ask Jamie Dimon. Ask the coal miners the EPA is putting out of business. Ask the union workers waiting for jobs on the Keystone XL pipeline. Ask Boeing BA +0.66% in South Carolina or the harmless tea party groups from towns no one has ever heard of that were shut down by the IRS, or the 20,000 inner-city parents and students who marched across the Brooklyn Bridge to protest obliteration of their charter schools by New York's progressive mayoral candidate, Bill de Blasio. 

Up to now, most of the events of the Obama presidency have passed in and out of the news as just politics. But with ObamaCare and its details touching so many people all at once, it has become impossible not to recognize that the Affordable Care Act is an offensive ideological exercise, not merely an entitlement program. By Mr. Obama's own admission, this law is the way he wants the world to work in the U.S.whether in health, education, energy, infrastructure or finance. And what Americans now riding through the ObamaCare hurricane of canceled policies, disappearing doctors and rebooted promises have to be asking themselves is: Do I want to live with this level of personal enforcement in the U.S.?

Perhaps the better question is, will the political class help them understand what ObamaCare is, or wanted to be? Most Republican politicians aren't particularly comfortable doing ideology. But the left revels in it. Mr. Obama bellows it in every speech. And absent someone shouting that the progressive emperor suddenly isn't wearing any clothes, they will win with it again. 

Barack Obama may have spent a lifetime failing up, but eventually it's just failure. He has presided over five years of sickly economic growth, inadequate job creation, a doubling of the food stamp population and now thisObamaCare. 

Progressive government has failed in the U.S. Most fascinating to behold will be whether the Democratic presidential candidate who follows this meltdown will embrace it, fake it or move on.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I can't wait to read the onslaught of I'm sorry's that will emerge shortly. They've already exhibited their true colors, but will now go for the 180 turn-around. Those that have known about your condition certainly don't let it get in the way of their "normal" behavior and could care less how you would react.


None of us have any control over Yarnies condition. If she chooses to participate on this forum, then she is aware of what goes on. When you dish out the things you and the rest of your cohorts do, then you should expect to get it back. She knows that when she comes on here, so there are no apologies needed. You certainly haven't changed your "normal" behavior, have you solo?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> This video is available on YouTube and was videoed in 2003 I believe, way before he became President.
> 
> The President feels so strongly about Universal Health Care because he mother died of cancer. She could not afford to purchase really good insurance to get treatment. So the cancer killed her at a very young age.
> 
> He believes NO ONE should die because they can not afford to get good quality health insurance and treatment especially for serious conditions such as cancer.


The people on the right always get all bent out of shape over things like this that mean nothing. I have heard him talk about universal healthcare before. Now the Koch brothers purchase of republicans in congress, doesn't bother them. People with no health insurance doesn't bother them. People without enough to eat doesn't bother them. A congressman receiving thousands of dollars in farm subsidies while food stamps are cut doesn't bother them. Kids, elderly people, and veterans going hungry while big oil gets subsidies doesn't bother them. It is more of that mentality of I get mine and to he-- with you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> An insurance policy as with everything else is buyer beware. If you are not an educated buyer, you will be snowed by someone. That is why the ACA website is a joke. No one in their right mind should give personal information to buy something unless all the details and prices are given so the person can make an informed decision. As a matter of fact it does not comply with a HIPPA law. (I'm not sure if that is the right acronym).
> 
> My statement is Obama wants to do away with all insurance companies, so he can have a single payer system. ACA is the first step. As long as ACA is a mess, he will press forward for his single payer system.


Actually, I hope we get a single-payer system.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> The people on the right always get all bent out of shape over things like this that mean nothing. I have heard him talk about universal healthcare before. Now the Koch brothers purchase of republicans in congress, doesn't bother them. People with no health insurance doesn't bother them. People without enough to eat doesn't bother them. A congressman receiving thousands of dollars in farm subsidies while food stamps are cut doesn't bother them. Kids, elderly people, and veterans going hungry while big oil gets subsidies doesn't bother them. It is more of that mentality of I get mine and to he-- with you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> PLEASE READ!!
> 
> ...


President Obama is a Centrist. If you're way over in the right la-la land fringe, you can't recognize this.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That's not true. His mother was working at the time and had health insurance. It was Obama's fabricated story that she had no coverage. Just one of many stories that he used selling his plan.


False, false, false.

President Obama said this in a 2007 speech in Santa Barbara, CA:

"I remember my mother. She was 52 years old when she died of ovarian cancer, and you know what she was thinking about in the last months of her life? She wasn't thinking about getting well. She wasn't thinking about coming to terms with her own mortality. She had been diagnosed just as she was transitioning between jobs. And she wasn't sure whether insurance was going to cover the medical expenses because they might consider this a preexisting condition. I remember just being heartbroken, seeing her struggle through the paperwork and the medical bills and the insurance forms. So, I have seen what it's like when somebody you love is suffering because of a broken health care system. And it's wrong. It's not who we are as a people."

Ann Dunham, President Obama's mother, had employer-provided health insurance which covered some of the costs of her medical treatment, leaving her to pay the deductible and uncovered expenses, which came to several hundred dollars per month. Her employer-provided disability insurance denied her claims for uncovered expenses because the insurance company said her cancer was a preexisting condition.

In A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother....."Dunham pursued a disability claim for help covering several hundred dollars a month in deductibles and other uncovered medical expenses (because she could not afford to pay for them.) The insurer rejected Dunham's claim because the policy "contained a clause allowing the company to deny any claim related to a pre-existing medical condition."

This is why the President is so adamant about all Americans getting affordable health insurance without denying a pre-existing condition, and I can not blame him one bit!! His own mother suffered through this ridiculous health care system we currently have.

Obama's reference to his mother's illness in his appearance with Republican rival John McCain in Nashville, Tenn.:

"In a country as wealthy as ours, for us to have people who are going bankrupt because they can't pay their medical bills  for my mother to die of cancer at the age of 53 and have to spend the last months of her life in the hospital room arguing with insurance companies because they're saying that this may be a pre-existing condition and they don't have to pay her treatment, there's something fundamentally wrong about that."


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Democrats controlled congress from 2006-2010. What world are you living in?


I am living in reality, apparently you are not.

Now, to begin with, apparently no one remembers that Scott Brown was sworn into office in February of 2010. The President had only been in office for ONE year. Most folks remember that the election of Scott Brown reduced the number of Democratic senators to 59. So what damned majority are they talking about?

January 20, 2009  After suffering a seizure during Barack Obamas inaugural luncheon, Senator Kennedys health forced him to retreat to Massachusetts. Also Senator Al Franken of Minnesota had not been seated because the previous Senator, Norm Coleman challenged the results.

So at the beginning of his Presidency, Democrats had 58 sitting senators56 Democrats and 2 Independents.

Why do you think he had to compromise with Republicans on the Stimulus bill? He didnt have enough Democrats to pass the bill!

April 28, 2009 news outlets issued the following report:

Republican Sen. Arlen Specter has switched parties, which would give Democrats a filibuster-proof 60 seats. You do remember the filibuster? The Republicans employed it more than in any time in history for the express purpose of stalling legislation.

Despite the fact that the media hailed the party switch of Alen Specter and claimed it gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate, the Minnesota seat still remained vacant. The Senate had 57 Democratic members and 2 Independents. Techinically, the Senate was two members short, but Im counting Senator Kennedy even though he was at home ill because he did cast a vote in June. 59

May 15, 2009 Senator Robert Byrd was admitted to the hospital reducing the number of sitting Senators to 56 Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58

July 7, 2009 Al Franken (D) was sworn in after the election dispute over the Minnesota seat was decided in his favor. Senator Kennedy continued to recuperate at his home in Massachusetts and was unable to cast any more votes; Senator Byrd was still in the hospital. The Senate had 56 sitting Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58

July 21, 2009 Senator Byrd returned to the Senate making the count 59 seats. No Senator Kennedy.

Senator Kennedy died August 25, 2009.

The Kennedy seat was vacant from August 25  September 24 when Paul G. Kirk was appointed to occupy his seat until the completion of a special election. The swearing-in of Kirk gave the Democrats a 60-seat majority.

Democrats had a 60 seat majority from September 24, 2009 thru February 4, 2010. 4 months people; not 2 years!!

Democrats lost their 60 seat majority when Republican Scott Brown of Massachusetts was sworn into office in February of 2010.

But heres the most important detail that no one ever mentions:

REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED THE HOUSE, SENATE AND PRESIDENCY (BUSH) FROM 2001 TO 2007! SIX YEARS!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> OMG, who died and made you the the website expert?


Well reading all of the posts gives me the right to call it as I see it. JMHO!!!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> The people on the right always get all bent out of shape over things like this that mean nothing. I have heard him talk about universal healthcare before. Now the Koch brothers purchase of republicans in congress, doesn't bother them. People with no health insurance doesn't bother them. People without enough to eat doesn't bother them. A congressman receiving thousands of dollars in farm subsidies while food stamps are cut doesn't bother them. Kids, elderly people, and veterans going hungry while big oil gets subsidies doesn't bother them. It is more of that mentality of I get mine and to he-- with you.


It's part of the right wing ideology.....the promotion of the self, of selfishness. I got mine and I don't give a [email protected] if you got yours!!!


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> I am living in reality, apparently you are not.
> 
> Now, to begin with, apparently no one remembers that Scott Brown was sworn into office in February of 2010. The President had only been in office for ONE year. Most folks remember that the election of Scott Brown reduced the number of Democratic senators to 59. So what damned majority are they talking about?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Tried to make sense in response to someone who will never know what sense is.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> None of us have any control over Yarnies condition. If she chooses to participate on this forum, then she is aware of what goes on. When you dish out the things you and the rest of your cohorts do, then you should expect to get it back. She knows that when she comes on here, so there are no apologies needed. You certainly haven't changed your "normal" behavior, have you solo?


Yarnie has a right to post her thoughts, but most slam her because they know how it makes her feel.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I am stating that Seattle is an ugly, disgusting excuse for a human being. She knows of Yarnie's condition, yet she will respond to her in anyway she sees fit no matter what. Seattle will then apologize only when her words cause Yarnie to have a seizure. As I stated, I have no use for people like her.


I don't know who Seattle is. 
Yarnie is a grown woman, she seems to be aware of what she can handle. 
If she is not, then she is learning quickly. That is what people do when they suffer a traumatic brain event. 
Coddling Yarnie does her no good. This is the world we live in. Yarnie is an adult who has indicated that she wants to be here and knows her limitations. I have enough respect for her to treat her as the adult she is and take her at her word. Do you?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> So I see this is your attempt at being hoity toity. I meant it to be something light. But you just had to crap all over it..


Well, you didn't imply that it was funny or light. Sorry.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I don't know who Seattle is.
> Yarnie is a grown woman, she seems to be aware of what she can handle.
> If she is not, then she is learning quickly. That is what people do when they suffer a traumatic brain event.
> Coddling Yarnie does her no good. This is the world we live in. Yarnie is an adult who has indicated that she wants to be here and knows her limitations. I have enough respect for her to treat her as the adult she is and take her at her word. Do you?


Yes, but again one of your friends told her to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy the seizure! Yes, we all defend her & will continue as usually several on the right "gang" up on her slamming her all at once!

Seattle is MIB who changed her name!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You did not watch the video. One statement was 2003. The dates on the others were:
> 
> 6/15/09
> 8/4/07
> ...


The fact is that it doesn't matter. What President Obama and the Democratic Congress accomplished was through compromise. That is defined by a shift in positions. I don't, and no other intelligent person expects you to grasp this. It is beyond you, you have convinced us of that. 
Since you lack the intellect to recognize these things, please, go talk to those people who continually break into a new thread to whine about the subject matter being to heated or too argumentative or too educational...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The fact is that it doesn't matter. What President Obama and the Democratic Congress accomplished was through compromise. That is defined by a shift in positions. I don't, and no other intelligent person expects you to grasp this. It is beyond you, you have convinced us of that.
> Since you lack the intellect to recognize these things, please, go talk to those people who continually break into a new thread to whine about the subject matter being to heated or too argumentative or too educational...


Well, my dear, who started this thread? You have such a short memory! Who is calling who dumb?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yarnie has a right to post her thoughts, but most slam her because they know how it makes her feel.


Respect translated from another language means watch your back. Re = again, spect = to look. In other words, if you are respectful, you are watching your own back.

The people who are rude, mean and vicious on this site should take the above to heart. I would not give them the time of day at this point for any reason.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> None is so blind as those who will not see.
> 
> It was reported today that about 2/3 of employer sponsored health care plans will be canceled before 12/31/2014. Another step in *government controlled* health care.


Do you think that Obamacare will end from all of this? He lied to the public just to be elected. That is terrible.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Tonight? You forget, she is one of the bullies that so many threads have been about.
> She can dish it out,yet she certainly cannot take it.


Where are those threads as aw988 or whatever her name started because she was angry because I called her Ingried! She apologized!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> You got that right. However her replies are so weak to be laughable. On second thought, it's such a weak position I guess she should get credit for trying.


You are such a nasty bully!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Is that cute little dog one you are house sitting for?


Oh, now we know who is the dog sitter? Such good news! What is her name? This fits--thanks CB!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What I would like you do to you wouldn't do. That being said, do whatever you plan on doing. It makes no difference to me. I care absolutely nothing about a person that says she will say whatever she wants to another person and if those words bring on a seizure, then she'll apologize. You are truly an ugly, disgusting human being. I have absolutely no use for you.


Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!

She is a pile of garbage who had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a baby, aborted it then much later told us she named it & buried it! What a liar! Said she left high school to "live" with an older man, left him then married again, left him, then married a man who had 5 children she claims she raised, but now claims to be her mothers caregiver, but moved the elderly woman from Seattle, WA to San Francisco into a criminal neighborhood! But in all her housing, said her brother would come over for dinner!

Later she claimed to hold several degrees, but I think she ran a one person brothel!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ridiculous. Whatever happened to the conservative mantra of looking out for oneself and taking responsibility for one's own actions? If the rough and tumble of the political threads might cause Yarnie to have a seizure then Yarnie should stay away.


You are the one who told her to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy her seizure!

I had some respect for you before those remarks, but after those horrible words, respect flew out the door!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> False, false, false.
> 
> President Obama said this in a 2007 speech in Santa Barbara, CA:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Actually, I hope we get a single-payer system.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Single payer system can work Al.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are the one who told her to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy her seizure!
> 
> I had some respect for you before those remarks, but after those horrible words, respect flew out the door!


Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.


Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.

Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.

Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.

Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.

Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.

Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!
> 
> She is a pile of garbage who had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a baby, aborted it then much later told us she named it & buried it! What a liar! Said she left high school to "live" with an older man, left him then married again, left him, then married a man who had 5 children she claims she raised, but now claims to be her mothers caregiver, but moved the elderly woman from Seattle, WA to San Francisco into a criminal neighborhood! But in all her housing, said her brother would come over for dinner!
> 
> Later she claimed to hold several degrees, but I think she ran a one person brothel!


Janeway -- For a Christian you are a poor example. by the way, I am not stalking you -- I have been reading all the threads tonight and didn't plan on commenting on any of your dreadful, nasty posts, but this one you really outdid yourself. I can't believe the things you write. Everyone is a bully but you. Everyone is wrong but you. You insult everyone and you should be ashamed. I doubt you have one word of proof about anything you have said here. you are really something. I wonder how you can face yourself in the morning - There is nothing political in your post only insults and unkindness. Shame.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> PLEASE READ!!
> 
> ...


Thank you for another enriching and thought-inspiring article, Lukelucy. Progressives/communists/statists/socialists, whatever the name they go by, have failed everywhere they've been in power. China has modified their strident communism with free enterprise and capitalism Even some of the countries in Europe (socialist) are shying away from this form of government. They are running out of other peoples' money. We have run out of money and are existing on entitlements and gov't hand outs. Bernanke's QE keeps Wall St. booming, but once he decides to no longer go that route, you'll see the market plunge.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM TODAY'S WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> PLEASE READ!!
> 
> ...


Thank you for another enriching and thought-inspiring article, Lukelucy. Progressives/communists/statists/socialists, whatever the name they go by, have failed everywhere they've been in power. China has modified their strident communism with free enterprise and capitalism Even some of the countries in Europe (socialist) are shying away from this form of government. They are running out of other peoples' money. We have run out of money and are existing on entitlements and gov't hand outs. Bernanke's QE keeps Wall St. booming, but once he decides to no longer go that route, you'll see the market plunge.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, my dear, who started this thread? You have such a short memory! Who is calling who dumb?


It doesn't matter who posted the first entry. Fact is the thread belongs to the site. 
It does not belong to any of us. 
You don't have to believe me, ask admin.


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## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Janeway -- For a Christian you are a poor example. by the way, I am not stalking you -- I have been reading all the threads tonight and didn't plan on commenting on any of your dreadful, nasty posts, but this one you really outdid yourself. I can't believe the things you write. Everyone is a bully but you. Everyone is wrong but you. You insult everyone and you should be ashamed. I doubt you have one word of proof about anything you have said here. you are really something. I wonder how you can face yourself in the morning - There is nothing political in your post only insults and unkindness. Shame.


Those were absolutely vile comments, and by someone who professes to be a Christian.

Wasn't it Jesus who said:
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matt. 7:1-5)


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are such a nasty bully!


Yes, she is very much a bully.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Everyone keeps on having heated discussions about the launch of the ACA. If the ACA is so bad then let it go into effect and fail on its own. 

I would really like to know if the 4-5 vehemently opposed posters are retired and on SS & Medicare because if that is so, then the ACA does not apply to you. So you should have no objections to others paying an affordable rate to get the good coverage you already have.

So if everything can be worked out and winds up working well for the majority of Americans, then it will be a good thing for this country.

We just have to wait and see.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for another enriching and thought-inspiring article, Lukelucy. Progressives/communists/statists/socialists, whatever the name they go by, have failed everywhere they've been in power. China has modified their strident communism with free enterprise and capitalism Even some of the countries in Europe (socialist) are shying away from this form of government. They are running out of other peoples' money. We have run out of money and are existing on entitlements and gov't hand outs. Bernanke's QE keeps Wall St. booming, but once he decides to no longer go that route, you'll see the market plunge.


Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.

In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:

1. Did you feed the hungry?

2. Did you clothe the naked?

3. Did you give a drink to the thirsty, etc.

If they answered no to these works in Matthew 25, then Jesus said that they were going to hell.

Faith and performing good works for your fellow man go together like body and soul. You simply aren't alive unless both body and soul are united (James 2:26). It's the same for being alive in Christ - You need faith in Christ first, and then good works (not works of the law) to justify that faith.

So we progressives and dems put into practice the words of Jesus by helping the poor, the disabled, the elderly and the children.

As to the right to an abortion or to take birth control, we do not live under a theocratic government. There is the separation of Church and state for that specific reason. Would I ever have an abortion, NO. And I would hope that no one in my family have one either. AND I might add, I had 5 kids, all grown now.

Do I think that these services should be available to others who do not believe as I do, yes I do. I can not force my religious beliefs on others. Women have been getting abortions since time began only now they are safe ones.

So your perception of liberals, progressives, dems are quite wrong for most of us. I am sure there are atheists in all parties as well as having all religions in both parties.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


Well said, and it should be said again. We should help the less fortunate, always.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


Separation of Church and state. What Jesus stated in Matt. 25, is part of what commonly is known as Corporal Works of Mercy. It behooves all Christians, and perhaps all people, to follow them. When the state does that to its people they enable them and make them dependents. In the process the state acquires controlling power. Citizens become subjects. How is that different from bondage? or from the gray masses of the former communist USSR or its satellites? In the long run, the best way to help others is make them self-sufficient. Give them jobs, hope and opportunity to make something of themselves. Confidence and self-respect are rarely bought with government hand-outs.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

True....but it had to voted into law....then when some didn't like it, they tried crying to the Supreme court...The law was up held.....so I repeat........IT'S THE LAW.....LIVE WITH IT!


soloweygirl said:


> Obama has already changed the law. The corporate mandate has been postponed. Many have received waivers and now Congress is trying to get their immediate staff out of complying. Yes, the law can be changed it seems with the stroke of a pen.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Everyone keeps on having heated discussions about the launch of the ACA. If the ACA is so bad then let it go into effect and fail on its own.
> 
> I would really like to know if the 4-5 vehemently opposed posters are retired and on SS & Medicare because if that is so, then the ACA does not apply to you. So you should have no objections to others paying an affordable rate to get the good coverage you already have.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


I agree with your post l00% - the last paragraph says it all. Liberals are made up of all sorts of people - just like those on the right. However, my religious beliefs are the same as yours -- I belief that we are required to care about others, to look after the poor, to help those who need help.

I believe that even though I would never have an abortion (not in a million years) other people have the right to make their own choice -- it is true back street abortions have been carried out for centuries -- at least now women don't lose their lives. I also believe that the Bible was written by men and I hope to face my maker and find out that 'do unto others as ye would have them do unto you" is a basic belief that should be followed to the best of our ability which is what I have tried to do my whole life.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> None is so blind as those who will not see.
> 
> It was reported today that about 2/3 of employer sponsored health care plans will be canceled before 12/31/2014. Another step in *government controlled* health care.


And whose fault is that? Don't you think the insurance companies are responsible for anything? Or employers? Now who's blind?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Separation of Church and state. What Jesus stated in Matt. 25, is part of what commonly is known as Corporal Works of Mercy. It behooves all Christians, and perhaps all people, to follow them. When the state does that to its people they enable them and make them dependents. In the process the state acquires controlling power. Citizens become subjects. How is that different from bondage? or from the gray masses of the former communist USSR or its satellites? In the long run, the best way to help others is make them self-sufficient. Give them jobs, hope and opportunity to make something of themselves. Confidence and self-respect are rarely bought with government hand-outs.


This is classic conservative rationalization. "I'm a Christian, but I don't want my government to help people." These days, there is no "free" handout. People receiving aid also have a work requirement.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This is classic conservative rationalization. "I'm a Christian, but I don't want my government to help people." These days, there is no "free" handout. People receiving aid also have a work requirement.


 :thumbup:


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Separation of Church and state. What Jesus stated in Matt. 25, is part of what commonly is known as Corporal Works of Mercy. It behooves all Christians, and perhaps all people, to follow them. When the state does that to its people they enable them and make them dependents. In the process the state acquires controlling power. Citizens become subjects. How is that different from bondage? or from the gray masses of the former communist USSR or its satellites? In the long run, the best way to help others is make them self-sufficient. Give them jobs, hope and opportunity to make something of themselves. Confidence and self-respect are rarely bought with government hand-outs.


Your philosophy is so wrong. Helping people who need help is the right thing to go....the Christian thing to do. If government needs to help people from despair, then I believe I should help to.

Remember these policies are a "hand UP" and not a hand OUT to people less fortunate than you.


----------



## cynthia627 (Sep 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This is classic conservative rationalization. "I'm a Christian, but I don't want my government to help people." These days, there is no "free" handout. People receiving aid also have a work requirement.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I was talking to the two who commented on a video they did not watch. They are ones who are blind.
> 
> The video was clips of Obama's goal of single payer *(Government Controlled)* health care. With the large number of private policies being canceled and the large number of employer sponsored health plans expected to be canceled before the end of the year, Obama is well on his way to *control* all of the health care.


This is not healthcare controlled by the government. The insurance companies are the ones providing the policies, are they not? There are stipulations that the policies offered actually DO something and provide good coverage. That is government regulation for the good of its citizens. Do you prefer corporations controlling your healthcare? That's what we've had for years. The insurance companies have called the shots. And they sure have gotten away with not serving their clients well!!
I will go back and check out the video tomorrow.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!
> 
> She is a pile of garbage who had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a baby, aborted it then much later told us she named it & buried it! What a liar! Said she left high school to "live" with an older man, left him then married again, left him, then married a man who had 5 children she claims she raised, but now claims to be her mothers caregiver, but moved the elderly woman from Seattle, WA to San Francisco into a criminal neighborhood! But in all her housing, said her brother would come over for dinner!
> 
> Later she claimed to hold several degrees, but I think she ran a one person brothel!


You have really out done yourself this time Jane. 
No reply I have ever read has been a mean as this. 
You should be ashamed of yourself. I now think you are lying about your health and it is all a ruse to gain attention to yourself. Well you did in one of the nastiests posts you have ever written. However I do believe that you are a mental case that needs medicine ASAP.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Your philosophy is so wrong. Helping people who need help is the right thing to go....the Christian thing to do. If government needs to help people from despair, then I believe I should help to.
> 
> Remember these policies are a "hand UP" and not a hand OUT to people less fortunate than you.


I will NEVER understand how people can profess to be a Christian and oppose helping those less fortunate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This is not healthcare controlled by the government. The insurance companies are the ones providing the policies, are they not? There are stipulations that the policies offered actually DO something and provide good coverage. That is government regulation for the good of its citizens. Do you prefer corporations controlling your healthcare? That's what we've had for years. The insurance companies have called the shots. And they sure have gotten away with not serving their clients well!!
> I will go back and check out the video tomorrow.


You can't get that through her head al. It's all a conspiracy in her mind.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Separation of Church and state. What Jesus stated in Matt. 25, is part of what commonly is known as Corporal Works of Mercy. It behooves all Christians, and perhaps all people, to follow them. When the state does that to its people they enable them and make them dependents. In the process the state acquires controlling power. Citizens become subjects. How is that different from bondage? or from the gray masses of the former communist USSR or its satellites? In the long run, the best way to help others is make them self-sufficient. Give them jobs, hope and opportunity to make something of themselves. Confidence and self-respect are rarely bought with government hand-outs.


My favorite word for the republicans is HYPOCRITE. It certainly fits, don't you think. You say the best way to help others is to make them self sufficient. Good idea but, they need to raise the minimum wage to allow the working poor to receive a living wage. They cut food stamps so they don't become dependent, but now they still can't afford to buy enough groceries to feed their families, cause they aren't making a living wage and they don't have food stamps. And God forbid those in congress would pass a jobs bill, because that might look good for the president. And that self-respect you are talking about. Tell me how they are they are suppose to get that when congress and the republicans tell them everyday how worthless they are cause they don't have a job. How many times can you tell a child that they don't matter before they believe it and act on it. It's kind a a vicious circle you put people in and then you sit back and look down your nose at them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You have really out done yourself this time Jane.
> No reply I have ever read has been a mean as this.
> You should be ashamed of yourself. I now think you are lying about your health and it is all a ruse to gain attention to yourself. Well you did in one of the nastiests posts you have ever written. However I do believe that you are a mental case that needs medicine ASAP.


I hadn't seen that post. Totally vile!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> My favorite word for the republicans is HYPOCRITE. It certainly fits, don't you think. You say the best way to help others is to make them self sufficient. Good idea but, they need to raise the minimum wage to allow the working poor to receive a living wage. They cut food stamps so they don't become dependent, but now they still can't afford to buy enough groceries to feed their families, cause they aren't making a living wage and they don't have food stamps. And God forbid those in congress would pass a jobs bill, because that might look good for the president. And that self-respect you are talking about. Tell me how they are they are suppose to get that when congress and the republicans tell them everyday how worthless they are cause they don't have a job. How many times can you tell a child that they don't matter before they believe it and act on it. It's kind a a vicious circle you put people in and then you sit back and look down your nose at them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> No, it wasn't for you. I just found who my reply was for:
> 
> "Lukelucy wrote:
> He has consistently lied. It is so obvious. She is brainwashed or something. Perhaps she is black and that is the reason she closes her eyes. If she is black, we are experiencing racism towards us. Food for thought."


She seems to have caught the "Janeway syndrome."
At one time we were all supposedly black. Question is, why would it matter if we were?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> My favorite word for the republicans is HYPOCRITE. It certainly fits, don't you think. You say the best way to help others is to make them self sufficient. Good idea but, they need to raise the minimum wage to allow the working poor to receive a living wage. They cut food stamps so they don't become dependent, but now they still can't afford to buy enough groceries to feed their families, cause they aren't making a living wage and they don't have food stamps. And God forbid those in congress would pass a jobs bill, because that might look good for the president. And that self-respect you are talking about. Tell me how they are they are suppose to get that when congress and the republicans tell them everyday how worthless they are cause they don't have a job. How many times can you tell a child that they don't matter before they believe it and act on it. It's kind a a vicious circle you put people in and then you sit back and look down your nose at them.


What bothers me most is that these people they look down on are fellow human beings. Not some labelled atrocity in society. And any one of us Rep or Dem could end up in that same situation. Do they think that other Republicans are not on food stamps or needing gov't assistance?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you afraid of what Obama's plans are? You are unwilling to see if your idol is really a monster in disguise?


Why is the President always referred to as "our idol?"
He is a man whom the American people saw fit to run this country, twice. A monster in disguise? Get over it , joey. 
The hate consumes you every day of your life and probably will for the next 3 years. Only you can stop it./


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!
> 
> She is a pile of garbage who had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a baby, aborted it then much later told us she named it & buried it! What a liar! Said she left high school to "live" with an older man, left him then married again, left him, then married a man who had 5 children she claims she raised, but now claims to be her mothers caregiver, but moved the elderly woman from Seattle, WA to San Francisco into a criminal neighborhood! But in all her housing, said her brother would come over for dinner!
> 
> Later she claimed to hold several degrees, but I think she ran a one person brothel!


All I can do is quote your own words back to you. These are your words if you care to check your posts over the past 24hours.

*I had some respect for you before those remarks, but after those horrible words, respect flew out the door!*


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, but again one of your friends told her to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy the seizure! Yes, we all defend her & will continue as usually several on the right "gang" up on her slamming her all at once!
> 
> Seattle is MIB who changed her name!


That was over a year ago and it was *not MIB* who told her to put a pencil between her teeth. If you are going to continue to spread hate then at least get your characters in the story straight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama's goal is single payer. Period.


Can you back that up, joey? I'd be interested to see fact form a non partisan source on that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You have really out done yourself this time Jane.
> No reply I have ever read has been a mean as this.
> You should be ashamed of yourself. I now think you are lying about your health and it is all a ruse to gain attention to yourself. Well you did in one of the nastiests posts you have ever written. However I do believe that you are a mental case that needs medicine ASAP.


One would think that a woman on her death bed as Jane claims to be would think about how she judges others and says such awful things. Jane you are a bitter nasty person and may God have mercy on your soul for all the horrible things you say to and about others. I used to think you didn't know any better but now I think maybe you are the one who is evil, not sick at all or maybe your evilness has finally taken it's toll on your body.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Your philosophy is so wrong. Helping people who need help is the right thing to go....the Christian thing to do. If government needs to help people from despair, then I believe I should help to.
> 
> Remember these policies are a "hand UP" and not a hand OUT to people less fortunate than you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you think there is a mess now, there are possible more large problems ahead. Poor Americans will pay the price.
> 
> http://teapartyeconomist.com/2013/10/31/obama-takes-fake-responsibility-plagued-website/


More right wing nut propaganda. I can't believe you believe this trash.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/
> 
> Watch the whole video. Obama's own words.
> 
> If you don't watch the video don't comment.


I will comment where and when I please., I did watch the video. It is chopped up and edited.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/
> 
> Watch the whole video. Obama's own words.
> 
> ...


Don't get your undies in a bunch over something President Obama said that may or may not ever happen. He can't do it by him self and he said 15 to 20 years. Will he be president then? How about when Bush tried to privatize social security, did you get all up in arms about that? A lot of republicans in congress still think that is a good idea. If we ever have another republican president along with congress, they will try to do it, I am sure. That is one that will cause riots in the streets. I think that is certainly more important and definitely more scary than single payer healthcare.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wow! That's an amazing picture! I may end up laughing myself to sleep tonight. Thanks for giving Janie a little taste of her own medicine.


BrattyPatty said:


> Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for posting the amazing picture in reply to Janeway's rant. I'm going to have to show it to my mother. Laughter is good medicine.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


BrattyPatty said:


> Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Actually, I hope we get a single-payer system.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ridiculous. Whatever happened to the conservative mantra of looking out for oneself and taking responsibility for one's own actions? If the rough and tumble of the political threads might cause Yarnie to have a seizure then Yarnie should stay away.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

My user name was SeattleSoul for a while. I asked Admin to change it. "A Maid In Bedlam" is an old ballad that I like. Yarnie has been around for a long time so I'm pretty sure she gets what goes on around here.


jelun2 said:


> I don't know who Seattle is.
> Yarnie is a grown woman, she seems to be aware of what she can handle.
> If she is not, then she is learning quickly. That is what people do when they suffer a traumatic brain event.
> Coddling Yarnie does her no good. This is the world we live in. Yarnie is an adult who has indicated that she wants to be here and knows her limitations. I have enough respect for her to treat her as the adult she is and take her at her word. Do you?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janie, you sure do mix up everything I've said. It's too much of a bother to straighten you out. Your post quoted below is complete nonsens. Your mind is a terrinle thing to waste.


Janeway said:


> Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!
> 
> She is a pile of garbage who had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a baby, aborted it then much later told us she named it & buried it! What a liar! Said she left high school to "live" with an older man, left him then married again, left him, then married a man who had 5 children she claims she raised, but now claims to be her mothers caregiver, but moved the elderly woman from Seattle, WA to San Francisco into a criminal neighborhood! But in all her housing, said her brother would come over for dinner!
> 
> Later she claimed to hold several degrees, but I think she ran a one person brothel!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


I am amazed at the creativity of the people who come up with these images. I think this one in the garden would be a hoot. In fact I would like to see it in something more permanent than pumpkins.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


Religion and politics do not mix. There have been terrible wars because of mixing them. Religion has no relevance here.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Separation of Church and state. What Jesus stated in Matt. 25, is part of what commonly is known as Corporal Works of Mercy. It behooves all Christians, and perhaps all people, to follow them. When the state does that to its people they enable them and make them dependents. In the process the state acquires controlling power. Citizens become subjects. How is that different from bondage? or from the gray masses of the former communist USSR or its satellites? In the long run, the best way to help others is make them self-sufficient. Give them jobs, hope and opportunity to make something of themselves. Confidence and self-respect are rarely bought with government hand-outs.


Jokim,

Great reply. Thank you so much for your intelligent, well-educated thoughts. People should really take them to heart as it is sound thinking.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I was talking to the two who commented on a video they did not watch. They are ones who are blind.
> 
> The video was clips of Obama's goal of single payer *(Government Controlled)* health care. With the large number of private policies being canceled and the large number of employer sponsored health plans expected to be canceled before the end of the year, Obama is well on his way to *control* all of the health care.


Obama has lied and lied to get our vote. This law should be voted on again. It would never be passed. What kind of person lies for a vote and ruins many American's lives. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Impeachment please!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

cynthia627 said:


> Your philosophy is so wrong. Helping people who need help is the right thing to go....the Christian thing to do. If government needs to help people from despair, then I believe I should help to.
> 
> Remember these policies are a "hand UP" and not a hand OUT to people less fortunate than you.


Cynthia, religion and politics do not mix. The hand-outs will get worse.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree Patty. Shame jane. Vile, even for you.



BrattyPatty said:


> You have really out done yourself this time Jane.
> No reply I have ever read has been a mean as this.
> You should be ashamed of yourself. I now think you are lying about your health and it is all a ruse to gain attention to yourself. Well you did in one of the nastiests posts you have ever written. However I do believe that you are a mental case that needs medicine ASAP.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janey never lets the facts get in her way.



jelun2 said:


> It doesn't matter who posted the first entry. Fact is the thread belongs to the site.
> It does not belong to any of us.
> You don't have to believe me, ask admin.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you Cynthia. You inspire me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with your post l00% - the last paragraph says it all. Liberals are made up of all sorts of people - just like those on the right. However, my religious beliefs are the same as yours -- I belief that we are required to care about others, to look after the poor, to help those who need help.
> 
> I believe that even though I would never have an abortion (not in a million years) other people have the right to make their own choice -- it is true back street abortions have been carried out for centuries -- at least now women don't lose their lives. I also believe that the Bible was written by men and I hope to face my maker and find out that 'do unto others as ye would have them do unto you" is a basic belief that should be followed to the best of our ability which is what I have tried to do my whole life.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I was talking to the two who commented on a video they did not watch. They are ones who are blind.
> 
> The video was clips of Obama's goal of single payer *(Government Controlled)* health care. With the large number of private policies being canceled and the large number of employer sponsored health plans expected to be canceled before the end of the year, Obama is well on his way to *control* all of the health care.


Look Toots, I find myself hoping that SOMEONE controls health care soon. Go President Obama.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> Your philosophy is so wrong. Helping people who need help is the right thing to go....the Christian thing to do. If government needs to help people from despair, then I believe I should help to.
> 
> Remember these policies are a "hand UP" and not a hand OUT to people less fortunate than you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo. Go Cynthia!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You have really out done yourself this time Jane.
> No reply I have ever read has been a mean as this.
> You should be ashamed of yourself. I now think you are lying about your health and it is all a ruse to gain attention to yourself. Well you did in one of the nastiests posts you have ever written. However I do believe that you are a mental case that needs medicine ASAP.


I agree completely. IMHO janeway deserves no consideration of any kind. I too believe she lies about her health, her ethnicity and just about anything else.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you talking about George Bush Lucy?



Lukelucy said:


> Obama has lied and lied to get our vote. This law should be voted on again. It would never be passed. What kind of person lies for a vote and ruins many American's lives. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Impeachment please!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting twist lucy.



Lukelucy said:


> Religion and politics do not mix. There have been terrible wars because of mixing them. Religion has no relevance here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great picture of Halloween moon Patty.


BrattyPatty said:


> Here is one forJaneway after her nasty post to MIB.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Progressives and Dems are NOT socialists, atheists, communists, satanists, etc. We are law abiding people of faith who really live the Christian message that Jesus taught us.
> 
> In the story about Judgment Day, (Matthew 25:31-46) where Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, the only questions that Jesus asks the multitude concern works:
> 
> ...


The only trouble with your response, Cynthia, is that some of us are some of those things. None of those things are illegal. 
It has the same result as the knee jerk reaction about President Obama being a Muslim. There is nothing wrong with being Muslim.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Janey never lets the facts get in her way.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> The President feels so strongly about Universal Health Care because he mother died of cancer. She could not afford to purchase really good insurance to get treatment. So the cancer killed her at a very young age.
> 
> He believes NO ONE should die because they can not afford to get good quality health insurance and treatment especially for serious conditions such as cancer.


Why do you believe our lying President? Obama'a mother didn't die because she didn't have or couldn't afford good quality health insurance. She had such insurance!

Obama misrepresented the facts about his mother's health insurance, multiple times, trying to gain sympathy for his proposed health care insurance law (ACA d/b/a ObamaCare.)

Obama's mother HAD good health insurance and other than her deductibles of a couple hundred dollars a month during her treatment, Obama's mother's cancer treatments WERE covered and paid for by her health insurance provider.

Obama's mother made a disability insurance claim for loss of work during her treatment which was denied.

Lack of health insurance, care or treatment withheld did NOT kill his mother; cancer did. The proof is in the facts for all to read.

Here are three links to websites favored by the Liberals and Democrats like you that tell about Obama's lies.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/09/07/160726548/retell-politics-story-about-obamas-mother-gets-another-look (NPR)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2012/09/06/fact-checking-joe-biden-did-obama-fight-his-mothers-insurance-companies/ (The Washington Post)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/21/barack-obama/obamas-mother-fought-disability-coverage-not-treat/ (PolitiFact)

Much like Obama, just because you possess college credentials, however obtained, does not mean you possess an education or the ability to separate a lie from the truth. You don't.

You simply believe whatever lie best suits your case.

I don't have the BS credentials that you claim to, but was able to research, listen, and learned and know the truth. You apparently wasted a lot of time and perhaps money for something you don't use.

Your post earns you a grade of "F" just like Obama did when he tried to further his misrepresentation of the truth.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Well, my dear, who started this thread? You have such a short memory! Who is calling who dumb?


If I recall correctly, this topic was started by LTL, and has since come to include many participants with differing opinions and points of view.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.


Thanks Susan for the compliment but you are far worse than anyone who posts here after what you said to Yarnie! You are the deplorable character on KP!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If I recall correctly, this topic was started by LTL, and has since come to include many participants with differing opinions and points of view.


You are wrong as usual!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Janey never lets the facts get in her way.


Neither do you dame as your name fits!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janey do not worry so about what is said and not said. It is not worth the trouble.

When one see it for what it is worth and this is just my opinion. 

they want all the luxuarys and have it they do not mind paying more taxes, but unless they state other wise that is the only way they are helping the poor.

Then the game of criticize and name calling begin.

They seem to find it easy to tell one that you are not following Jesus's words about helping the poor. Jesus also said do not put your treasure out for the world to see,keep them in heaven and your father will reward you.

So that is what I do. I do not have to brag how I don't mind paying more taxes, or what I have or will do. My treasures are in heaven.

Also always remember you reap what you sow. Their words are what they will sow.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> You are wrong as usual!


I stand corrected. Lukelucy started this topic and S&O.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Janey do not worry so about what is said and not said. It is not worth the trouble.
> 
> When one see it for what it is worth and this is just my opinion.
> 
> ...


I hope that you remember that you are the first putting these suppositions out there. 
You will also reap what you sow.
It's really a shame that you follow Janeway into the depths of negativity.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janey don't fight for me.

As they say I am a big girl now, and have finially saw the truth.

I tried for one day to share what I believed and listen to theirs. My reward was the name calling again. The problem was I sunk to their level again, and called three of them the names I should not have. If I am a true follower of Christ than I did not prove it. I have to ask for forgivness. 

I will not do it agin with Jesus's help. Let it go it is not worth your soul. Let them have their way.

And to the ladies who who think you know the truth I do pray that someday you will see the truth. 

Remember the sang Janey as Jesus has put it on my heart. The battle is the Lords and he will have the victory,the victory. He is in charge not we.

Another song to remembe Janey "Let there be peace on Earth and let it begin with me.

God says in the bible not to question who he puts on the throne he knows what will happen not we. He knows better then we do what will be.

May God truly Bless you in Jesus name I ask. Now let it go.

As they say I am a big girl now, and God has shown me what it means.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why do you believe our lying President? Obama'a mother didn't die because she didn't have or couldn't afford good quality health insurance. She had such insurance!
> 
> Obama misrepresented the facts about his mother's health insurance, multiple times, trying to gain sympathy for his proposed health care insurance law (ACA d/b/a ObamaCare.)
> 
> ...


I know people with degrees that are dumb as rocks. Lazy, too.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.


Frankly pig, I shudder to think anyone even responds to you *at all* considering your disgusting comments to many KP posters.

Given *your* deplorable character you shouldn't even be allowed to post ever again on this website in any thread.

Here's just one post (brought up recently) you wrote to Yarnie (theyarnlady) on the Smoking and Obamacare thread on Apr 5, 2013 at 22:45:27.

Before you go off about me searching for this post, you should know I have been blessed with a remarkable memory and am also a speed reader. Before I began posting on KP, one weekend I read hundreds of posts on KP in many of the topics before I ventured to post.

It took me all of about fifteen minutes to locate your scathing post since I remembered how disgusting it was soon after joining KP.

BTW: Don't bother telling us you apologized to Yarnie either for your hateful words, you only did months later when you were pressured to do so. The history of your prior posts (which anyone can read) proves you were well aware of Yarnie's medical condition of having grand mall seizures, as evidenced by your deplorable remark to refer to same.



susanmos2000 said:


> Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This is for everyone who gave me moral support yesterday when I felt like I was being jumped on by several large football players with very sharp cleats.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I was wrong, but unlike some of the folks who post here, at least I admitted it.


Janeway said:


> You are wrong as usual!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I was wrong, but unlike some of the folks who post here, at least I admitted it.


I am not sure what difference it makes who started what. That is honestly only in her mind. 
Just like her claim that she works 70 to 80 hours a week. She may be at work for certain hour. She may think that she is working, however, it would be impossible for her to do that and to spend the several hours she claims to be doing other things.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.
> 
> Frankly Janie, I'd shudder to be considered one of those you respected. Given your deplorable character it's certainly no compliment.
> 
> ...


Frankly jelun2 you should read susanmos2000's post that I've copied and pasted below. Since I'm aware you like facts and sources, you can locate and verify exactly what Susan posted in the Smoking and ObamaCare thread, written on Apr 5, 2013, at 22:45:27.



susanmos2000 said:


> Feel a seizure coming on, Yarnie? Why not loosen your collar and put a pencil between your teeth just to be safe?


I'd shudder at the thought to believe you will *still* consider susanmos2000 a good person and one with whom you are willing and pleased to consider your friend and Liberal associate. I know you're not _that_ stupid.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I hope that you remember that you are the first putting these suppositions out there.
> You will also reap what you sow.
> It's really a shame that you follow Janeway into the depths of negativity.


I am sorry you feel that way and I mean this with all my heart. Yes I will reap what I sow.

I do know my faults, but I also know that there is forgiveness it what one really believes it. I have already ask for forgiveness.

I want to say to you right here and now in this form so all can see.

I ask for your forgiveness for the wrong I have done to you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, please, remember when Seattle or crazy MIB started a site on Ravelry but was so stupid that she locked herself out & cannot post nor read it anymore!


Yep - I remember her multiple lies about her own stupidity too!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Respect translated from another language means watch your back. Re = again, spect = to look. In other words, if you are respectful, you are watching your own back.
> 
> The people who are rude, mean and vicious on this site should take the above to heart. I would not give them the time of day at this point for any reason.


 :thumbup: I'm amazed that the Liberals/Progressives/Democrats choose to mainly post in the threads begun my those not in agreement with them. They have their 'own' threads', Point of View Liberal (POV) and Ladies of the Liberal Left (LOLL), yet they post the majority of their words on the threads begun by Conservatives, Republicans and Independents since those are the only threads where they can post their hate.

Of course, their Liberal, privately managed forums (three of them at least on KP that I'm aware of), all imploded and *failed* so the Liberals idiots have no where else to go to survive.

What fun! :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I can't believe the things you write. Everyone is a bully but you. Everyone is wrong but you. You insult everyone and you should be ashamed. I doubt you have one word of proof about anything you have said here. you are really something. I wonder how you can face yourself in the morning - There is nothing political in your post only insults and unkindness. Shame.


There is plenty of proof if you were honest enough to acknowledge it. Take the time to read MaidinBedlam's prior posts or susanmos2000's posts to see the proof of what Janeway has stated. The proof is archived for those who choose to read it.

We all know you won't. I suggest that is your shame.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Progressives/communists/statists/socialists, whatever the name they go by, have failed everywhere they've been in power. China has modified their strident communism with free enterprise and capitalism Even some of the countries in Europe (socialist) are shying away from this form of government. They are running out of other peoples' money. We have run out of money and are existing on entitlements and gov't hand outs. Bernanke's QE keeps Wall St. booming, but once he decides to no longer go that route, you'll see the market plunge.


 :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

For some reason, a few people ARE really concerned about who started certain topics. Go figure! I thought I'd take the high road and admit I was wrong about who started this and S&O.

I agree, it sounds pretty hard to believe someone can work 70 to 80 hours a week and spend so much time online. :thumbup:


jelun2 said:


> I am not sure what difference it makes who started what. That is honestly only in her mind.
> Just like her claim that she works 70 to 80 hours a week. She may be at work for certain hour. She may think that she is working, however, it would be impossible for her to do that and to spend the several hours she claims to be doing other things.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd shudder at the thought to believe you will *still* consider susanmos2000 a good person and one with whom you are willing and pleased to consider your friend and Liberal associate. I know you're not _that_ stupid.


KPG, 
It is disgusting what they wrote. How low can they go... Thank you for addressing it. I am appalled.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Those were absolutely vile comments, and by someone who professes to be a Christian.
> 
> Wasn't it Jesus who said:
> Judge not, that you be not judged.


Love the irony of you judging someone immediately followed by a Bible verse which tells us not to judge one another! 

Perhaps I should list some verses for you about liars, hypocrites, false prophets and blasphemers who God also despises?

Nah, a complete waste of my time.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd shudder at the thought to believe you will *still* consider susanmos2000 a good person and one with whom you are willing and pleased to consider your friend and Liberal associate. I know you're not _that_ stupid.


Frankly, if susanmos2000 is a pig, you are pig puke. 
You are dishonest and an instigating snake.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love the irony of you judging someone immediately followed by a Bible verse which tells us not to judge one another!
> 
> Perhaps I should list some verses for you about liars, hypocrites, false prophets and blasphemers who God also despises?
> 
> Nah, a complete waste of my time.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: You never know what they are going to say next. Twists, turns and bullying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love the irony of you judging someone immediately followed by a Bible verse which tells us not to judge one another!
> 
> Perhaps I should list some verses for you about liars, hypocrites, false prophets and blasphemers who God also despises?


Saying that comments are vile is not judging, it is no wonder you are so good at portraying reverse Christianity. You don't know up from down.

Then there is this to consider.

Is It Right to Judge?

How many times have you heard someone whine, "Judge not, that ye be not judged?" This verse of Scripture from Matthew 7:1 is often quoted out of context by people who are terrified at the idea of someone preaching against sin or pointing out any form of error in anyone, especially in themselves.

As I stood in a voting line one day I overheard a woman justifying her foolish choice for president by saying, "Well, we aren't supposed to judge." Imagine that! Choosing NOT to judge a political candidate on election day! No wonder our nation is in such a mess!

As for Matthew 7:1, the context (verses 1-5) allows judging after you have first judged YOURSELF. Jesus did not make a blanket statement against judgment. He simply pointed out a RULE for judging.

Now, the word "judge" in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God's word. One whole book of the Bible is titled "Judges" for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

As we are about to see, God EXPECTS His people to judge. In fact, you are sinning against God if you refuse to judge! (Read that again, please)

God Expects Us to Judge

"The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30) A righteous person will talk of judgment. He will not REFUSE to judge. He will talk judgment.

"Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph." (Amos 5:14-15) How can you hate the evil and love the good if you refuse to judge? You can't. You are SINNING when you refuse to judge.

Our generation is well described in Isaiah 59:8: "The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace." People have refused to judge, so there is no peace.

Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to ". . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." Why would Paul make such a statement if judging is wrong? In I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." Judging is not a sin; judging is a characteristic of being a spiritual person! Satan has been lying to us, hoping that we will NOT judge, because he knows that the right kind of judgment PLEASES God and betters our lives and Christian service.

Someone says, "But should we judge PEOPLE?" Yes, we certainly should. Paul actually REBUKES the Corinthians for NOT judging: "Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?" (I Cor. 6:1-5) If judging is wrong, then Paul needs to confess and repent for misleading these Christians! He clearly told them to JUDGE PEOPLE.

If judging people is wrong, how can we obey Romans 16:17-18? II Corinthians 6:17? II Timothy 3:5-6? I John 4:1? Friend, if judging is wrong, then God has contradicted Himself and His words cannot be trusted!

Notice Malachi 3:18: "Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." WOW! Does that sound like it is wrong to judge?

What about Revelation 2:2? " I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:" Why would the Lord be pleased with these Christians if judging was wrong? Is it not impossible to find someone a "liar" without judging them?

If the Bible is clear about anything, it is clear about the importance of judging on a regular basis in order to properly serve and honor God. To ignore this fact is to ignore all of the Scripture just presented and also the rest of the Bible. God expects us to judge.

God's Rules for Judging

Now I do not wish to imply that we should spend all of our time judging. Sometimes people judge when they have no business doing so. In John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. This can only be done by following the rules that God has established in His word. Here follow seven good rules from Scripture:

Judge Scripturally

Isaiah 8:20 says, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Our standard is God's word, not our feelings, our traditions, or our opinions. Right and wrong should always be determined by God's word.

Don't Judge When God's Word Is Silent

If God's word is silent about a subject, then you may not have to judge at all. Don't rush to judgment on an issue when the Bible says very little or is silent about it. Don't make more of a matter than God makes of it. A good example of this is found in Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" That is, these are not subjects of great importance today, so let's not make these great issues of judgment.

Pray for Good Judgement Ability

When Solomon received his kingdom he asked God to "Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" (I Kings 3:9) James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." We should pray for good judgment ability.

Don't Respect Persons

Proverbs 24:23 says, "These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Treat all parties fairly without favoring anyone, such as family members or friends. A truly fair judge is blind and deaf to any outer influence. (Isa. 42:1, 19-21)

Judge in Truth

Do not judge another when you do not have all the relevant facts. Jeremiah 5:1 says, "Run ye to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem, and see now, and know, and seek in the broad places thereof, if ye can find a man, if there be any that executeth judgment, that seeketh the truth; and I will pardon it." A true judge is one who seeks the truth. If you must judge, be sure and get all the facts. A Japanese proverb says to "search seven times before you judge."

Judge Mercifully

Remember the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:2: "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." You'll reap what you sow (Gal. 6:7-8). If you are swift and harsh in judging others, then God will see to it that you receive the same from others. Has God not been very merciful to you, even though you deserved it not? Likewise, you should exercise mercy toward others.

Don't Forget to Judge Yourself

I Corinthians 11:30-31: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." If you are a true Christian, then you belong to God. You are God's child. If you refuse to judge and improve yourself as a child of God, then God will take it upon Himself to judge you. Many of the troubles that we face in life are nothing more than God's way of judging us since we often neglect to judge ourselves.

Wouldn't it be amazing if every Christian actually took time to judge themselves before judging anyone else? In Matthew 7:4-5, Jesus says, " Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." A good judge will not fail to judge himself.

Copyright © 1999 James L. Melton


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Religion and politics do not mix. There have been terrible wars because of mixing them. Religion has no relevance here.


If one professes Christianity, how can s/he be opposed to aid for the needy? 
Or, if you want to remove religion, how about plain, ol' morality?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> Everyone keeps on having heated discussions about the launch of the ACA. If the ACA is so bad then let it go into effect and fail on its own.
> 
> I would really like to know if the 4-5 vehemently opposed posters are retired and on SS & Medicare because if that is so, then the ACA does not apply to you. So you should have no objections to others paying an affordable rate to get the good coverage you already have.
> 
> ...


You don't have a clue why folks are seeing high increases of premiums, why policies are being cancelled and why NO ONE can even sign up for the insurance they are now being forced to buy.

The ACA cannot even go into effect because of the worthless rollout of a product consumer site that you (the American taxpayers) have paid more then a billion dollars for to date.

The ACA has already proven itself to be a failure before it even began.

Thanks Obama!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama has lied and lied to get our vote. This law should be voted on again. It would never be passed. What kind of person lies for a vote and ruins many American's lives. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Impeachment please!


What kind of person lies and lies about WMD's, then starts a war where many of our young men and women get killed. And yet to this day thinks, or at least wants us to believe he thinks that it still was a good idea. Never has apologized for dragging this country into terrible debt, yet alone all the lives lost.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have a clue why folks are seeing high increases of premiums, why policies are being cancelled and why NO ONE can even sign up for the insurance they are now being forced to buy.
> 
> The ACA cannot even go into effect because of the worthless rollout of a product consumer site that you and the American taxpayers have paid more then a billion dollars for to date.
> 
> ...


You are welcome.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

We've all said things here we might like to take back. I believe Susanmos2000 made a mistake. As I recall, she also apologized for it. You can shudder all you want, but Susan is a far better person than you prove yourself to be with your mountains of ugly posts here and elsewhere. I sure hope you don't live in a glass house.


knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd shudder at the thought to believe you will *still* consider susanmos2000 a good person and one with whom you are willing and pleased to consider your friend and Liberal associate. I know you're not _that_ stupid.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

cynthia627 said:


> So we progressives and dems put into practice the words of Jesus by helping the poor, the disabled, the elderly and the children.
> 
> As to the right to an abortion or to take birth control, we do not live under a theocratic government.


Really! Did you not hear about the rule for all Christians "Thou Shall Not Kill" those innocent (war is of God) and "Bring the Little Children Unto Me?

The separation of Church and State is NOT God's Law and has nothing to do with abortion.

Once again, your incorrect perceptions and lack of Biblical knowledge is evident.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really! Did you not hear about the rule for all Christians "Thou Shall Not Kill" those innocent (war is of God) and "Bring the Little Children Unto Me?
> 
> The separation of Church and State is NOT God's Law and has nothing to do with abortion.
> 
> Once again, your perceptions and lack of Biblical knowledge is breathtaking.


How convenient that you left out the section of her post stating that she would not have an abortion and hopes that her family members would not.

Using bits and pieces of that book you claim to revere in order to cause misperceptions and to demean people and their statements shows who you are. It is not very pleasant. 
Pig Puke.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

This from KPG, our resident Christian, while telling Susan name-calling is deplorable.


"Frankly pig, I shudder to think anyone even responds to you at all considering your disgusting comments to many KP posters."


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That was over a year ago and it was *not MIB* who told her to put a pencil between her teeth. If you are going to continue to spread hate then at least get your characters in the story straight.


The post susan wrote was Apr 5, 2013. That is not a year nor more than a year ago. I'm sorry you cannot count.

Also, Janeway said is was susanmos2000 who made the disgusting post, not MIB as you reiterated. Seems to me if you're going to try correct someone, you, yourself should prove to be correct. I'm sorry you cannot comprehend that which you read and cannot tell the truth.

Since you are continuing to spew your hate (your words) *please* at least try to get the characters in your lies straight.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/shocking-obama-videos-reveal-real-goal/
> 
> Watch the whole video. Obama's own words.
> 
> ...


BrattyPatty doesn't believe Obama's lies either Joey. :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am amazed at the creativity of the people who come up with these images. I think this one in the garden would be a hoot. In fact I would like to see it in something more permanent than pumpkins.


Hang around, the Libs show themselves that way always and are permanent fixtures on the political KP threads.

How did you miss them?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This from KPG, our resident Christian, while telling Susan name-calling is deplorable.
> 
> "Frankly pig, I shudder to think anyone even responds to you at all considering your disgusting comments to many KP posters."


Let us not neglect the judging thing.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hang around, the Libs show themselves that way always, and are permanent fixtures on the political KP threads.
> 
> How did you miss them?


pig puke


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If I recall correctly, this topic was started by LTL,


You didn't, and it wasn't.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Thanks Susan for the compliment but you are far worse than anyone who posts here after what you said to Yarnie! You are the deplorable character on KP!


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am not sure what difference it makes who started what. That is honestly only in her mind.
> Just like her claim that she works 70 to 80 hours a week. She may be at work for certain hour. She may think that she is working, however, it would be impossible for her to do that and to spend the several hours she claims to be doing other things.


You wanna shadow me for a week? I'm certain you couldn't keep up and it would mean you couldn't be online on KP or elsewhere like you normally are.

Also, you'd have to work - know anything about that? :-D

BTW: I pay my employees more than minimum wage whether or not they are capable of earning it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am not sure what difference it makes who started what. That is honestly only in her mind.
> Just like her claim that she works 70 to 80 hours a week. She may be at work for certain hour. She may think that she is working, however, it would be impossible for her to do that and to spend the several hours she claims to be doing other things.


Doubtless she's blessed with opposable big toes and can type with her feet while knitting with her hands. It certainly would explain a lot.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hang around, the Libs show themselves that way always, and are permanent fixtures on the political KP threads.
> 
> How did you miss them?


How can we miss *YOU* if *YOU* won't go away? You're a permanent fixture here, in case you've forgotten. :twisted: :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> You are welcome.


You're Obama? - no shit!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're Obama? - no shit!


Wow, first spew of the day and now this? I thought your vocabulary was a big as a planet. No need to resort to such language.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You wanna shadow me for a week? I'm certain you couldn't keep up and it would mean you couldn't be online on KP or elsewhere like you normally are.
> 
> Also, you'd have to work - know anything about that? :-D
> 
> BTW: I pay my employees more than minimum wage whether or not they are capable of earning it.


I have done my share of putting in 60/ 70/ 80 hour weeks, I was actually working and not paying others to do the work I didn't want to do. 
I am retired you silly silly pig puke


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You didn't, and it wasn't.


Please see the aknowledgement of my error on page 95 of this topic, Little Miss Echo. (All typos and bad spelling courtesy of the fact that I no longer care about that stuff.)


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> As a Christian I am not opposed to aid for the needy. What I am opposed to is being taxed so the government to give it to some who are lazy and for the fraud and waste in trying to give it to the needy.
> 
> I will choose who I give aid to, I will not give money to an organization that I have not personally checked out, especially a national organization.
> Save the Children has had 2 campaigns in the last 5 years to provide infant hats to 3rd world countries. I donated 175 for both campaigns. I know the hats will go to an infant somewhere. I have many more on hand for them if they have another campaign. Just one of many.
> ...


you are right Joey and I agree. Goverment puts a hand in one pocket only to spend the wrong way. They have not help anyone. Not the way they contiue to use money for things that were not meant for.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> As a Christian I am not opposed to aid for the needy. What I am opposed to is being taxed so the government to give it to some who are lazy and for the fraud and waste in trying to give it to the needy.
> 
> I will choose who I give aid to, I will not give money to an organization that I have not personally checked out, especially a national organization.
> Save the Children has had 2 campaigns in the last 5 years to provide infant hats to 3rd world countries. I donated 175 for both campaigns. I know the hats will go to an infant somewhere. I have many more on hand for them if they have another campaign. Just one of many.
> ...


The solution to that would be to give enough so that in addition to your other charities you can cancel out your tax burden.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> None of us have any control over Yarnies condition. If she chooses to participate on this forum, then she is aware of what goes on. When you dish out the things you and the rest of your cohorts do, then you should expect to get it back. She knows that when she comes on here, so there are no apologies needed. You certainly haven't changed your "normal" behavior, have you solo?


i've noticed you haven't either. Yarnie already received the perceived apologies. Typical behavior from your cohorts.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Being a republican in this day and age certainly isn't anything to be proud of. On second thought, maybe you are proud of what the republicans have done.
Are you proud that almost 1 trillion of taxpayers money was spent in Iraq?

Are you proud that there is 9 billion of taxpayers money lost and unaccounted for in Iraq and 549.7 million in spare parts lost and reported stolen including 190,000 guns, 110,000 of those being AK-47 rifles?

Are you proud that there is 6.6 billion lost and reported stolen that was earmarked for reconstruction, which has been called the largest theft of funds in national history.

Are you proud there is 1 billion missing in tractor trailers, tank recovery vehicles and machine guns.

Are you proud that Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported equals $1.4 billion?

Are you proud that the amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion and that 3.2 billion of that is questionable. 

Are you proud that there were 4,487 US troops killed; 98% male. 91% non-officers; 82% active duty, 11% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 9% African-American, 11% Latino. 19% killed by non-hostile causes. 54% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 72% were from the US Army?

Are you proud that there were 32,223 US Troops Wounded - 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries. (Total excludes psychological injuries.)

US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems - 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home 

You complain and complain about the ACA and the democrats and how terrible we are. Well you certainly have a lot to be proud of, don't you? If I had been a republican I would disown them after that fiasco. All that money is bad enough, but all those young men and women, killed and injured. Dreadful

And if that isn't enough they shut down the government and our economy lost 24 billion and they still think it was a good ides. I don't understand that. Why do they feel that way? Maybe you could explain that to me.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> As a Christian I am not opposed to aid for the needy. What I am opposed to is being taxed so the government to give it to some who are lazy and for the fraud and waste in trying to give it to the needy.
> 
> I will choose who I give aid to, I will not give money to an organization that I have not personally checked out, especially a national organization.
> Save the Children has had 2 campaigns in the last 5 years to provide infant hats to 3rd world countries. I donated 175 for both campaigns. I know the hats will go to an infant somewhere. I have many more on hand for them if they have another campaign. Just one of many.
> ...


The problem with giving this information to a bunch of crafters is that we know that if you made 350 hats for infants it only cost you about $500. you have a lot more hats to make.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have a clue why folks are seeing high increases of premiums, why policies are being cancelled and why NO ONE can even sign up for the insurance they are now being forced to buy.
> 
> The ACA cannot even go into effect because of the worthless rollout of a product consumer site that you (the American taxpayers) have paid more then a billion dollars for to date.
> 
> ...


I hope everyone writes to their Congressman and tells him to continue to try to repeal the law. It should be dissolved as soon as possible. People are very angry. A lot of them.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I don't know who Seattle is.
> Yarnie is a grown woman, she seems to be aware of what she can handle.
> If she is not, then she is learning quickly. That is what people do when they suffer a traumatic brain event.
> Coddling Yarnie does her no good. This is the world we live in. Yarnie is an adult who has indicated that she wants to be here and knows her limitations. I have enough respect for her to treat her as the adult she is and take her at her word. Do you?


You know who Seattle is.

I'm not coddling Yarnie. I have total respect for Yarnie and know she can handle herself against the likes of your group. I'm calling Seattle out on her post. If you think that behavior is appropriate, which is appears you do, you are just as disgusting as Seattle is.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You wanted jobs created, If she is paying someone to do work, isn't that a created job?


IF.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitpresentgifts........Get over yourself......Nobody believes or even reads your sites full of propaganda CRAP........You are like an annoying insect just buzzing around, waiting to be swatted down......and you've been swatted down so many times that no one takes notice of anything you say anymore. 
You must have a PHD in CRAP by now.....Halloween is over.....so give up the ghost already.......

In case you didn't understand:

Give up the ghost: 
1. To stop trying to do something because you know that you will not succeed



knitpresentgifts said:


> Why do you believe our lying President? Obama'a mother didn't die because she didn't have or couldn't afford good quality health insurance. She had such insurance!
> 
> Obama misrepresented the facts about his mother's health insurance, multiple times, trying to gain sympathy for his proposed health care insurance law (ACA d/b/a ObamaCare.)
> 
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cynthia627 said:


> Everyone keeps on having heated discussions about the launch of the ACA. If the ACA is so bad then let it go into effect and fail on its own.
> 
> I would really like to know if the 4-5 vehemently opposed posters are retired and on SS & Medicare because if that is so, then the ACA does not apply to you. So you should have no objections to others paying an affordable rate to get the good coverage you already have.
> 
> ...


If it continues at its current pace, then it has nowhere else to go but down the drain. Day one, 6 enrollees, day 2, up to 100 and day 3, 248 people were enrolled across the country. Certainly not anywhere near the numbers that Sebelius was hinting at. Wasn't one reason (lie) the system crashed was because of all the people trying to enroll? Medicaid is the only system seeing enrollees on a large scale. The numbers came from the House Oversight committee that subpoenaed the figures from the HHS.

I'm not retired and buy my own insurance.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> True....but it had to voted into law....then when some didn't like it, they tried crying to the Supreme court...The law was up held.....so I repeat........IT'S THE LAW.....LIVE WITH IT!


The law that was initially signed by Obama and upheld by the SC is no longer the same law. It was changed by Obama.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I see ya'll ar still at it. Tsk tsk. I don't think I wanna play, but I did think it might be useful to insert a little sanity (aka: truth, facts, the like) into the discussion as I run across it, because I KNOW the rightwingers are trying real hard to make the lies they've been told stick.

Here's one:



> *IRS " We are getting 80,000 ACA application hits a day"*
> More than 330,000 people have managed to get deep enough into new government health insurance Web sites to learn how much financial assistance they will receive purchasing coverage, the Internal Revenue Service said Saturday.
> 
> That figure is arguably the most robust measure released to date by the Obama administration of how many Americans are successfully applying for financial help in purchasing a private insurance plan.
> ...


*And here's a fascinating spreadsheet of the Affordable Care Act signups by state:* www.knittingparadise.com/edit_post.jsp?postnum=4224472


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And whose fault is that? Don't you think the insurance companies are responsible for anything? Or employers? Now who's blind?


The insurance companies have to abide by the new regulations in the ACA. Any change employers make to to their existing policies runs the risk of kicking them off the grandfathering factor. There are approximately 156M working people that have corporate insurance. These regulations will affect at least 90M. The wording is very specific in the corporate mandates.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I was talking to the two who commented on a video they did not watch. They are ones who are blind.
> 
> The video was clips of Obama's goal of single payer *(Government Controlled)* health care. With the large number of private policies being canceled and the large number of employer sponsored health plans expected to be canceled before the end of the year, Obama is well on his way to *control* all of the health care.


Obama's not the only one talking about single payer. Reid and Pelosi have also spoken about it, along with some other Democrats. It's not a new notion floating around. The ACA is just a stepping stone to the single payer system as far as they are concerned.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Here's another:



> *How To Spot A Fake Obamacare Horror Story*
> 
> Since insurers have begun informing beneficiaries that their health care plans do not meet the new federal requirements of Obamacare, and will be either cancelled or significantly altered, the media has profiled countless middle class Americans who claim that the new health care law will force them to pay more for coverage.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Joey: Both parties are responsible, you say. Wonder how the vote would have gone if they knew they were being lied to. Cheney still has the balls to go on tv and slam President Obama and say going into Iraq was a good idea. Right, there are no Americans in Iraq any more, because President Obama brought them home. Republicans certainly wouldn't have. They wanted to start another war in Syria. So sorry, that you can so easily forget about all those killed and wounded and are ready to move on. Put all that debt on our backs and then just move on and try to blame President Obama for the debt. I know exactly how you operate, take no responsibility for the harm you have caused. I will not forget the harm republicans have caused and are continuing to cause. 

You said to be more concerned with what is going on in our country right now. Well I mentioned that too. The republicans shut down the government and cost our economy 24 billion. That well may go on again when we reach the debt ceiling again. Wonder what Cruz and his minions will do then.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That was over a year ago and it was *not MIB* who told her to put a pencil between her teeth. If you are going to continue to spread hate then at least get your characters in the story straight.


Janie didn't say it was Seattle. It's you that needs to get the characters straight, or at least understand what you are reading. Alas, that is asking way too much. Maybe one of the witches in your avatar can conjure up a potion for comprehension and individualize it just for you.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

The change I saw was agreed to by the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court upheld ObamaCare on June 28, 2012. The final ruling on ObamaCare was a made by Supreme Court Judge Vinson. The basic idea of the ruling was that ObamaCare was declared a tax and not a mandate and was therefore declared constitutional.



soloweygirl said:


> The law that was initially signed by Obama and upheld by the SC is no longer the same law. It was changed by Obama.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Obama's not the only one talking about single payer. Reid and Pelosi have also spoken about it, along with some other Democrats. It's not a new notion floating around. The ACA is just a stepping stone to the single payer system as far as they are concerned.


Lots of talk about a single payer system. I heard by 2017 states will be converting. I am against it.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And if you're referring to something that a Republican has written, or said, I wouldn't believe anyone who is so easily sucked into the Tea Party.....


Nussa said:


> The change I saw was agreed to by the Supreme Court.
> 
> The Supreme Court upheld ObamaCare on June 28, 2012. The final ruling on ObamaCare was a made by Supreme Court Judge Vinson. The basic idea of the ruling was that ObamaCare was declared a tax and not a mandate and was therefore declared constitutional.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> There is plenty of proof if you were honest enough to acknowledge it. Take the time to read MaidinBedlam's prior posts or susanmos2000's posts to see the proof of what Janeway has stated. The proof is archived for those who choose to read it.
> 
> We all know you won't. I suggest that is your shame.


The things she said -- were cruel, vicious and have no place on a forum here or anywhere. It has nothing to do with Politics it was a vicious attack. There have been vicious attacks on both sides and lots of nasty untruths spoken. It would be nice if everyone stopped personal attacks but I doubt it will ever happen on either side as I really think everyone enjoys seeing how nasty they can be. Even untruths are posted indiscriminately, deliberate misunderstandings are posted and fought over.

I just think maybe it would be great if everyone stood back and talked Politics instead of insults. I dloubt that will happen as too many people enjoy insulting and hurting each other- sad though.

I will likely be 'hung from the 'yardarm' as my Dad used to say ( he was a sailor) for daring to suggest that 'EVERYONE' stand back and quit the insults - -- insults, lies, and whatever else is occuring. Start over , let it all go and talk politics but leave the personal insults out -- new idea???? I guess most would hate to do that - can't see it happening which is really sad.

It might be an idea to keep score-- on a scale of l - 20 who is winning the insult scale - maybe have a prize at the end? There are people at the top of the scale and people at the bottom who don't want to be dragged into it but when it gets so bad are so appalled on both sides they join in.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> It is disgusting what they wrote. How low can they go... Thank you for addressing it. I am appalled.


They are at the bottom of the hole, yet still trying to see who can dig deeper. A total reversal of the King of the Hill game. Unfortunately, is appears the pit is bottomless.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hang around, the Libs show themselves that way always and are permanent fixtures on the political KP threads.
> 
> How did you miss them?


She didn't miss them, she's part of the pack.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> The change I saw was agreed to by the Supreme Court.
> 
> The Supreme Court upheld ObamaCare on June 28, 2012. The final ruling on ObamaCare was a made by Supreme Court Judge Vinson. The basic idea of the ruling was that ObamaCare was declared a tax and not a mandate and was therefore declared constitutional.


HUH?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> They are at the bottom of the hole, yet still trying to see who can dig deeper. A total reversal of the King of the Hill game. Unfortunately, is appears the pit is bottomless.


You would know, you have been the most successful at spiraling out of control.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Designer1234, I for one would love to talk politics without the snide remarks, and nasty talk. It isn't that I don't see that there are problems implementing ACA. Of course there are. But why is it that by some it has to be shot down with out giving it a try. If it turns out to be a bust, I would gladly vote to get rid of it. But right now, I see it as a way to get some of those who won't go to the Dr., because they have no insurance, to go, before they find out they have stage 4 cancer and it's to late. I want for everyone to be able to go to the Dr. without fearing they'll have to sell their home to pay for a hospital stay. Is that so much to ask for? I say come back to the Obamacare #2 forum in a years time, and we'll discuss what has happened, not what might happen. We should all know what the truth is by then. Not just hysterical conjecture.



Designer1234 said:


> The things she said -- were cruel, vicious and have no place on a forum here or anywhere. It has nothing to do with Politics it was a vicious attack. There have been vicious attacks on both sides and lots of nasty untruths spoken. It would be nice if everyone stopped personal attacks but I doubt it will ever happen on either side as I really think everyone enjoys seeing how nasty they can be. Even untruths are posted indiscriminately, deliberate misunderstandings are posted and fought over.
> 
> I just think maybe it would be great if everyone stood back and talked Politics instead of insults. I dloubt that will happen as too many people enjoy insulting and hurting each other- sad though.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I don't what site you looked yours up on, or that you are just guessing, but the site I read said it was Court Judge Vinson......


joeysomma said:


> It was Judge Roberts. There was only one part under question in that ruling. That was the penalty for not having health insurance was a tax, therefore, constitutional. There are many other parts of the law being challenged in the courts.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd shudder at the thought to believe you will *still* consider susanmos2000 a good person and one with whom you are willing and pleased to consider your friend and Liberal associate. I know you're not _that_ stupid.


What hypocrisy. I remember Yarnie's tirade on April 5th very well, as do most of the ladies here. Between bouts of obscenities ["stick it up your a---- B-tch"] she felt it necessary to taunt _my_ husband, who she erroneously believed was in the hospital on oxygen.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/mclemente/dissecting-judge-vinsons-obamacare-ruling

Here is Judge Vinson's ruling.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What hypocrisy. I remember Yarnie's meltdown on April 5th very well, as do most of the ladies here. Between bouts of obscenities ["stick it up your a---- B-tch"] she felt it necessary to taunt _my_ husband, who she erroneously believed was in the hospital on oxygen.


And I apologize for that Susan and the words I mention are words that the group use on the left too even in the last few months. Also you and some of the ladies who are still on here, manage to continue with taunting me with unkind words. The only one who did not was Al.

That does not make what I did right. But you also forget what you said about Janey that night.

As I have not done or said it since. The last time you were on DP&P you made statements and I delete post to you as I said it was wrong and did it in anger. Do you remember that?

I did not want to go there again, nor do I want to do it now. But always remember there are two sides of the story


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