# Wrap and turn vs PULT



## MissP (Mar 1, 2011)

I love this group. Thank you for all your good suggestions and kindnesses.
I am currently working on the Knit Your Own Dog books and finding that they change instructions, with no pictures about the complicated parts of the dog's heads, etc.
Often they will have short rows done with PULT at the end, and in another book they used wrap and Turn(which I refer). This is for the definition of the dog's head.
PLease talk about the differences so I can make good choices
PS. I am using #10 crochet thread and size 0 knitting needles so the dogs are small.
Thank you


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## impatient knitter (Oct 5, 2011)

PULT???


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## Chrissy (May 3, 2011)

Glory Gee in CT said:


> PULT???


Not heard of that.


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## impatient knitter (Oct 5, 2011)

Chrissy said:


> Glory Gee in CT said:
> 
> 
> > PULT???
> ...


It's up in the headline of this post.


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## thegrape (Nov 11, 2011)

What does PULT mean? I have never heard of it.


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## Deb-Babbles (Mar 4, 2011)

I have been looking for the meaning of this. Best I can figure
P (pick) U (up) L (lower) T (top) Gee at least I am trying to find something out.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

Does it mean pick up lower thread?


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## Deb-Babbles (Mar 4, 2011)

jinx said:


> Does it mean pick up lower thread?


could be


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## Jill2 (Sep 30, 2011)

Think it's Pick Up Loop, Turn....here's a video...


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## LadyBecket (Jun 26, 2012)

Thank you Jill2!!!! Thank goodness for YouTube!! I've never heard of PULT before and this shows just how to do it!!


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## Jill2 (Sep 30, 2011)

LadyBecket said:


> Thank you Jill2!!!! Thank goodness for YouTube!! I've never heard of PULT before and this shows just how to do it!!


I had never heard of it either....thank you Google! :-D


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

Gosh why can;t they just add the 4 words for the meaning of PULT.
Good Golly Miss Molly. I'm too old for necessary stress!!!
Silly designer(author).
JMHO, Linda


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## 3mom (Apr 20, 2011)

This is a new one for me, and I agree with you LEE1313!!!


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Well hadn't come across it- but it doesn't look as neat a finish as w&ts I don't think (but then I usually do it on fine yarn forsocks so it may be different on heavier yarn)

Well PULT is simply an abbreviation as is w&t- and the abbreviation is at the back of the book so there is no excuse for not finding it if you are doing a pattern stright from the book - information we only have if we watched the video that Jill2 found for us. (I do think I have copied one pattern fromt he book and quite likely not the abbreviations so this might be very useful to know!


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## kathleen40 (Aug 29, 2012)

I think maybe at a guess, that might be it


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## KnittingLinda (May 7, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> Gosh why can;t they just add the 4 words for the meaning of PULT.
> Good Golly Miss Molly. I'm too old for necessary stress!!!
> Silly designer(author).
> JMHO, Linda


JMHO?


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## Jenseydun (Dec 31, 2012)

KnittingLinda said:


> LEE1313 said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh why can;t they just add the 4 words for the meaning of PULT.
> ...


Just my humble opinion?


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## KnittingLinda (May 7, 2011)

Probably.

INFWA*

*I'm not familiar with acronyms.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

this just goes to show that knitting is not a fixed craft. people are always inventing a better mouse trap, even with our craft.


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## elsiemarley (Jul 27, 2012)

tamarque said:


> this just goes to show that knitting is not a fixed craft. people are always inventing a better mouse trap, even with our craft.


But I also very much like the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

HOOT*

Humble opinions often tell


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

that is what makes us unique. some of us like to try new things, especially when there are problems.


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## Susan from NC (Jan 23, 2013)

Hello,
New to this terminology although I just did a pair of slippers with short rows.
Can someone tell me what the wrap and turn method would look like when written in the instructions?


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

Once in awhile, when crocheting or knitting your own dog or cat is mentioned, I tell myself someday I'll make a cocker spaniel to replace my unforgetttable Corky.

What's the name of your book and is there a cocker pattern in it?

Thanks


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## ladydog (Nov 21, 2011)

This was good information. Thank you.


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## MissP (Mar 1, 2011)

THank you for your answers. I did look at youtube before I starting posting about this. The book is called Knit Your Own Dog.
And there is a pattern for a Cocker Spaniel.
My dismay is that the written instructions are so abrupt that it was difficult to follow them, being unfamiliar with them term.
SInce the Beagle pattern had wrap and turn , as well as Intarsia, I am going to make a change in this Corgi pattern and see if it works.
More than that I though those of you who are more experienced in details would have an opinion/discussion on the pros and cons of Wrap and turn vs this PULT. When I finally get to learning sock heels, I want to know which one to practice first ))
Thank you all and have a good day. 22 degrees here in Chicago this morning.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Susan from NJ said:


> Hello,
> New to this terminology although I just did a pair of slippers with short rows.
> Can someone tell me what the wrap and turn method would look like when written in the instructions?


It is abbreviated w&t. Pattern usually will say knit to last stitch and w&t. So it knits to the same spot as the PULT but the technique is different.


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## cathyknits (Nov 1, 2012)

Susan from NJ said:


> Hello,
> New to this terminology although I just did a pair of slippers with short rows.
> Can someone tell me what the wrap and turn method would look like when written in the instructions?


It's usually just shown as w&t.
I guess the designers had a reason for their choice of turn method but, in the video, it seemed to look quite different from side to side. I'd rather have a matched look.


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## Susan from NC (Jan 23, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Susan from NJ said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...


Thank you for that. I think what I did was the w&t but this is how it was written: ...S/1, K1, PSSO, S/1. yf Turn

That's the same thing right? BTW it worked and I ended up with no holes but I wanted to learn the correct way to write it out so I would recognize it next time for what it is.


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## czechmate (Jun 17, 2011)

I have learned a new one today,thanks girls !!!


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## WelshWooly (Jul 4, 2012)

I've no idea but did find this




which gives a part of the answer.


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## Moe C (Jul 31, 2011)

Susan: That's a variant of a w&t. Usually, it's bring yarn forward, slip st, yarn back, return sl st, turn work.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Susan from NJ said:


> tamarque said:
> 
> 
> > Susan from NJ said:
> ...


Hmm, not quite correct. W&T does not s/1, k1, passo. it just does yf, sl1, turn, s/1 and knit across


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## Susan from NC (Jan 23, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Susan from NJ said:
> 
> 
> > tamarque said:
> ...


Thank you for that. The actual part that was the wrap and turn was only the last few stitches: S/1, YF, Turn. I only put the preceding stitches in so you could see where I was coming from. The instructions I used, the part about the wrap and turn seems to be backwards from what you have written. You are YF, S1, turn, S1 and I did S1, YF turn.

Can you straighten me out please?


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

Crafty has a free tutorial on short rows and all the different methods. Very informative and worth while to check out.http://www.craftsy.com/user/205222


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Susan from NJ said:


> tamarque said:
> 
> 
> > Susan from NJ said:
> ...


It seems like you would want to sl the stitch back to the right needle after turning.

Not meaning to confuse but there are different ways to do W&T. Craftsy has a video course on this that you can pick on discount at times and may be helpful as it covers several techniques. This can help get perspective.

Otherwise use Youtube videos and just chose one to work with until you get clear on the process. Any one will do as long as you relate to the presentation. Try a few.


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I have also learnt something new as I didn't have a clue as to what PULT meant. Thank you.


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## julietinboots (Feb 19, 2011)

kathleen40 I love the plaid or tartan in your avitar. Is it knit or woven?


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## cr8images (Jul 22, 2011)

So many ways to do short rows! There is also the German style which people say closes the hole. I want to learn to knit backwards so I don't turn the work at all!


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## LRwife (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm also dismayed about the overuse of acronyms. Once the words have been made clear, it is fine to go with the acronym, but I think our communication is diminished by shortening everything. My reference is to all areas, not just knitting, but medical, legal, financial, educational, and on and on. Language is a beautiful thing, and a tool for human expression and communication. Let's do what we can to keep it alive,


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

And?


Glory Gee in CT said:


> Chrissy said:
> 
> 
> > Glory Gee in CT said:
> ...


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## LRwife (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm also dismayed about the overuse of acronyms. Once the words have been made clear, it is fine to go with the acronym, but I think our communication is diminished by shortening everything. My reference is to all areas, not just knitting, but medical, legal, financial, educational, and on and on. Language is a beautiful thing, and a tool for human expression and communication. Let's do what we can to keep it alive,


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

that is a new one for me also!


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## Patricia McCurry (Feb 18, 2013)

I was excited to hear that you are doing work in crochet thread. I love miniatures! I have just begun to learn to knit socks and while this seems off-the-subject, the thing I can't seem to get a handle on, is picking the wrapped stitches. The yarn always does this splitting thing, and I end up with knots. THEN! I learned the sweet tomato heel by Kat Bordhi which also handles the shaping, but no holes and no funky wrap pick-ups. Maybe this could make that little head and face just sweet and smooth! Definitely work a look on YouTube!


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## deeswoman (Feb 4, 2013)

Same here !


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## DuelingNeedles (Feb 2, 2013)

i really have been looking at buying the dog and cat books -- it's in my wish list on amazon ... still a little intimidated


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## jean-bean (Jun 22, 2012)

I googled "short rows" and found there are about 5 ways of doing them!!!


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## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

both give you the same result so just do what you like- i use a m1 here and turn and knit the m1 with the first st after the turn
these patterns in the book knit your own dog are very poorly done and written and it is easy to get lost with them i find when you knit them as written the animal is off center from front to back so I just sat down and rewrote them as i could understand and they have been fine since


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## IngridCarlsson (Sep 26, 2011)

I think the PULT method is as good - so just do what you feel comfortable with and keep the same method throughout project. By the way Miss P - is that a Bichon Frise x Poodle you have? Too cute for speech....I have a male and he is wonderfulxx
Thanks to the knitter who suggested we look at YouTube - great tutorial!!


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## vannavanna (Oct 15, 2012)

One of those unbelievably new things we learn every day!
(do you think?)


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## knitnanny (Feb 28, 2012)

Jill2 said:


> Think it's Pick Up Loop, Turn....here's a video...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## KnittingLinda (May 7, 2011)

LRwife said:


> I'm also dismayed about the overuse of acronyms. Once the words have been made clear, it is fine to go with the acronym, but I think our communication is diminished by shortening everything. My reference is to all areas, not just knitting, but medical, legal, financial, educational, and on and on. Language is a beautiful thing, and a tool for human expression and communication. Let's do what we can to keep it alive,


Knitting Paradise needs a "Like" button!


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

LRwife said:


> I'm also dismayed about the overuse of acronyms. Once the words have been made clear, it is fine to go with the acronym, but I think our communication is diminished by shortening everything. My reference is to all areas, not just knitting, but medical, legal, financial, educational, and on and on. Language is a beautiful thing, and a tool for human expression and communication. Let's do what we can to keep it alive,


I'm with you on that, LRWIFE, And my pet peeve for acronyms is textese! I HATE all thos abbreviations, and I fear our kids will grow up unable to read plain English, or carry on a sensible conversation with real people in a real setting!


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## Byrdgal (Jun 27, 2011)

Never heard of it!! Learning something new every day!!!!


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

That's a new one for me too. Most patterns have a list of abbreviations at the bottom. Thank goodness someone enlightened us and posted the youtube link!


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## joycie3 (Aug 30, 2011)

LEE1313 said:


> Gosh why can;t they just add the 4 words for the meaning of PULT.
> Good Golly Miss Molly. I'm too old for necessary stress!!!
> Silly designer(author).
> JMHO, Linda


I agree. Been knitting and crocheting over 55 years and never heard of it.


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## 12linda (Dec 2, 2011)

haven't they got a abbreviation part in the book 
or look at aberrations in knitting help.com


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## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

http://remilyknits.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/tips-and-tricks-pult/

Here is the description of the stitch from the book:

pult pick up loop below next st on left needle by inserting tip of right needle from back of work through loopthis stops a hole forming when turning workthen turn, leaving rem (number stated) sts on left needle unworked

There are a few key bits:

First is identifying the loop to be picked up. In Cat Bordhi terms (from her video on lifted increases), we are focusing on the mother of the first stitch on the left needle.
Second is making sure to pick up it correctly: poke the right needle into that mother stitch from back to front, and leave it on the right needle.
Third is turning the work without losing any stitches. This is trickier than it sounds. Trust me.
Fourth is making sure to follow the directions for the next row correctlyevery time the pult is used, the first thing on the next row is a k2tog or a p2tog, which joins the picked-up loop with the first st of the row. This ensures that the stitch count stays constantno stitches are created or destroyed in the use of this short-row technique.

VIDEO follows


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## PearlofGreatPrice (Oct 21, 2011)

Linda6885 said:


> Crafty has a free tutorial on short rows and all the different methods. Very informative and worth while to check out.http://www.craftsy.com/user/205222


Thank you for posting this link, Linda. It's another one of the many things on my learn to do list.


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## Moondancermel (Nov 18, 2012)

MissP said:


> I love this group. Thank you for all your good suggestions and kindnesses.
> I am currently working on the Knit Your Own Dog books and finding that they change instructions, with no pictures about the complicated parts of the dog's heads, etc.
> Often they will have short rows done with PULT at the end, and in another book they used wrap and Turn(which I refer). This is for the definition of the dog's head.
> PLease talk about the differences so I can make good choices
> ...


After looking at the video Jill found on You Tube I would say the biggest difference between the two is the PULT leaves a stitch showing on the right side that looks a lot like a decrease and Knit N Turn does not. PULT may be ok for shaping an animals face but I would not personally use for anything else as I don't want most of my short rows to show.

What do the rest of you think?


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## MissP (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you all for this lively discussion. I truly appreciate this.

I agree that the instructions are poorly written in Knit Your Own Dog- which surprises me , because the outcome is darling. I wonder what is in store for me in the second book and the one about Cats.

I noticed when I made the Beagle that it was not able to stand straight in show stance. 

Since she was a present for a lady whose Beagle never stood still, when I found out how to make it stand at all, it looked just like Daisy with one paw curled up!

I will use wrap and turn as I learned from the Alan Dart Mouse Fairies pattern, and when tax time here is over will rewrite the patterns I like the best.

Please keep Knitting Paradise alive.
Thank you
Have a great day.


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## Dreamweaver (Feb 1, 2011)

New one on me as well.... I do think I prefer the regular wrap and turn look.... but the designer may have wanted the more prominent stitch display ... No matter how you got there the dogs are darling... 

BTW... my best friend in grade school lived in Clarendon Hills while I lived in Westmont and, later, Villa Park. A lovely community... though I couldn't stand the sulphur water at the time!!!! Hope you are tucked up warm and cozy and knitting with all the snow....


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## MissP (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you all
I have started on the Corgi- I have had to do the tummy twice, since it is, again, very confusing and time consuming. I am adding the tail from the beagle to make it a puppy, by request, for those of you who know these individual breeds. 

I will continue to refine these instructions and see if I can make better sense of it for all of us.

I love Clarendon HIlls, and the water is fine for now. I moved here because there is a Pet Cemetery where I was able to put the ashes of my two last loves. Not to be morbid because I only have joy in my memories. 

OK, off to finish the taxes so I can feel guilt free working ont eh dogs and watching British mysteries ))
Have a good weekend.


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## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm right along with you LRwife. Lets say what we mean. I realize different countries have differen meanings on some things, but in something like knitting and crochet instruction, this should be universal---and stop abbreviating everything the first time. Lets start a petition or something to try and Make everything UNIVERSAL people!!!!! Maybe some publishers should listen to their consumers and yarn companies should take notice also.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

my2blkcats said:


> I'm right along with you LRwife. Lets say what we mean. I realize different countries have differen meanings on some things, but in something like knitting and crochet instruction, this should be universal---and stop abbreviating everything the first time. Lets start a petition or something to try and Make everything UNIVERSAL people!!!!! Maybe some publishers should listen to their consumers and yarn companies should take notice also.


While it sounds great how do decide which to use? US or UK moss stitch for example. And if we don't use abbreviations think of how long a pattern will be. Everything we do uses abbreviations- part of taking up a craft, hobby new job etc involves learning the new language and abbreviations that are involved. The abbreviations should all be written somewhere in the pattern (or book) and if they aren't then there is a problem with the pattern right fromt he start (unless it is little more than knit and purl; and this should include how the increases are done if it is relevant- sometimes it really doesn't matter, other times it is important). . And having them in one place is much better than trying to find it scattered in different parts of the pattern when we want to check it up.


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## my2blkcats (Jun 9, 2011)

What I meant to say is when the stitch is first used in a pattern, make sure it is explained There the first time, then use abbreviations from there on. Most patterns do have a list of abbreviations somewhere either at the beginning or the end of the pattern for reference which can be very especially for beginners. I guess I didn't explain myself very well, sorry. You know what happens when trying to combine thought with typing, confusion. I guess that's me. It just didn't come out right. You know, when I was holding classes when I had a yarn shop, the first item the students would make, I used to have them write out their stitches from the explanation in the pattern, on a 
3 x 5 card and clip it to the pattern so it was readily available for reference while they were working instead of having to flip through the book and have to spend time finding them. This seemed to work out well for the girls. I still wish there was more universal terms all over the world.


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## shad88 (Jun 4, 2015)

I still prefer the way it is done for socks. looks much neater to me.


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## Moe C (Jul 31, 2011)

shad88 said:


> I still prefer the way it is done for socks. looks much neater to me.


Do you realize the last post to this thread was in Apr of 2013? Half the posters could be dead by now.:sm02: :sm02: I shouldn't say that, probably some of them are.


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