# I am so angry



## Knitnutty (Feb 9, 2011)

I am knitting socks with Patons Kroy sock yarn for my Grandson. I am knitting along matching stripes great and along comes a spot where the yarn is split and tied in a knot. It just makes me so darn mad to run into that when everything was going so well and sock is almost complete. This will be the last yarn I buy from them.


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## mollyannhad (Feb 1, 2011)

thats too bad, one works hard to keep them the same!


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## annweb (Feb 23, 2012)

He certainly won't want a knot rubbing his foot .


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## Grandma G. (Oct 29, 2012)

That happened to me too with Kroy, there was no way I could get the colour runs matching & still have enough yarn to finish the socks after the knot.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I understand how frustrating that can be. It appears that putting knots is accepted practice. I have experienced the same frustration.


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

I u ed three skeins of that yarn with no knots. 

I would complain to the company and tell them their quality control stinks. If it is a reputable company with good customer service they will go overboard to make you happy with new yarn.


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Knitnutty said:


> I am knitting socks with Patons Kroy sock yarn for my Grandson. I am knitting along matching stripes great and along comes a spot where the yarn is split and tied in a knot. It just makes me so darn mad to run into that when everything was going so well and sock is almost complete. This will be the last yarn I buy from them.


Might be time to take and roll the sock yarns into cakes before starting to knit. I have noticed some yarns I never had that problem with before are now showing up. Hate it more when there are stripes or pattern of sorts.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

you will find that problem with most yarn, not just Kroy. I have had many yarns with knots in them even the most expensive ones that I have purchased had knots. 

I know we all expect it to be perfect in the ball we buy, but some knots are allowed in manufacturing standards. 

what I hate is when the knot shows up and then the patterning is reversed.


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## gardening pat (May 15, 2014)

If they don't know about these faults they can not put them right, you are doing them a favour by telling them. Bet they make it pu to you.


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## gardening pat (May 15, 2014)

If they don't know about these faults they can not put them right, you are doing them a favour by telling them. Bet they make it pu to you.


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## subtlewitch (Sep 30, 2012)

Complain on the company facebook page and watch how fast they fix the problem!


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## charbooth (Jan 9, 2015)

Dearest Knitnutty... I've been knitting for 50 years and have absolutely run away from knitting socks (makes me shudder to even think of knitting socks).. your message makes me understand even more clearly why I have not taken up socks - I've done pantsuits, dresses - sequin tops., etc. but never socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fdb123 (Mar 30, 2012)

cathy47 said:


> Might be time to take and roll the sock yarns into cakes before starting to knit. I have noticed some yarns I never had that problem with before are now showing up. Hate it more when there are stripes or pattern of sorts.


That's one of the reasons I always wind new yarns, so I can see any problems ahead but I also don't mind the differences in patterning that happen between socks with multi-colored yarns.


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

Please do complain to Kroy. I also wonder who sets the 'manufacturing standards'? You can be sure that they are not knitters. I would be happy to pay a little more for yarn and be guaranteed no knots..


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## jobailey (Dec 22, 2011)

That is exactly why I ALWAYS roll my yarn into cakes before I knit with it. I want to know where the knots are, take them out and place the ends where I want them!


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

If I said I wasn't going to buy a yarn because I got a knot, I wouldn't have any yarn! That's just to say it's happened with all brands. I do especially hate it when it's in a sock yarn!


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## Paet (Dec 25, 2014)

charbooth said:


> Dearest Knitnutty... I've been knitting for 50 years and have absolutely run away from knitting socks (makes me shudder to even think of knitting socks).. your message makes me understand even more clearly why I have not taken up socks - I've done pantsuits, dresses - sequin tops., etc. but never socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I have made socks for many years. Once you make the first one you will find how easy it is to make them. The secret is to read and do exactly what is written in the instructions regardless of how crazy it sounds! Once you do it you will look back and see that it all makes sense😊

As for the knot in the yarn, I too get frustrated when one shows up. I simply cut through knot out and then spin the two pieces together. It will be a bit thicker but it really won't show all that much.

I have knit lace, aran sweaters, and fairisle plus regular plain knitting.


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## ann seal (Jan 30, 2014)

I 'rewind' all yarn before I knit. Some have as many as 3 knots......
Get a yarn winder.


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## Turmaline (Jun 2, 2013)

I think this is where the Russian join will save your work and not put a knot that is felt in the sock.

Cut the knot and make a Russian join. Knit as nothing happened. If you dislike color changes, use plain colored sock yarns.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

Knots can't be helped ...all you can do is take them out and place the ends where you want them then work in the ends.


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## Linda5251 (Apr 28, 2014)

Sadly even very expensive yarns have knots. The only yarn I have never had knots in is "handpainted" yarns.


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## Neeterbug (May 25, 2011)

A woman in our knitting group is using this yarn to knit a pair of socks and she said that she will never knit with the yarn again.


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## mombr4 (Apr 21, 2011)

I have used that yarn several times and never had a problem. I know the standards are that there can be a certain number of knots allowed. I would still let them know of the problem.

Hope you are able to finish your socks, even if you can't match up the color changes.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I have used many different types of sock yarn, and there are some I have said I will never use again, but end up doing it just to use up the stash and have been pleasantly surprised with the second attempt. I have used Kroy for many years and found it to be one of the longest wearing socks in my drawer. Kroy yarn made in Slovenia is not nice, but the rest of their yarn washes up to be super soft. 

I don't like Deborah Norville yarn at all, so the next pair I do with that yarn I will double the yarn if I can match the color sequences and see if it knits up any better for me... or try to sell the yarn might be a better way to use it!


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

double post again - I guess my knee is not stable enough!


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

If you have not experienced knots in your yarns, you have just been very lucky as it seems all manufacturers use knots in their manufacturing process. It is common practice to join the yarn supply so it will travel through the winding equipment without stoppage. The companies say they would have to charge more than we are willing to pay for the product if they did not use this method. The following video showing the winding process of Caron One Pound is typical of the industry:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

charbooth said:


> Dearest Knitnutty... I've been knitting for 50 years and have absolutely run away from knitting socks (makes me shudder to even think of knitting socks).. your message makes me understand even more clearly why I have not taken up socks - I've done pantsuits, dresses - sequin tops., etc. but never socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That's why I re-wind every skein or hank of yarn I buy. My time is valuable. I wanna know if there is gonna be a problem. So far so good.


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## Knitnutty (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks all. I am going to notify Paton. We shouldn't always have to be rolling yarn into balls to check their quality. It's not even a big skein.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Peggy Beryl said:


> If you have not experienced knots in your yarns, you have just been very lucky as it seems all manufacturers use knots in their manufacturing process. It is common practice to join the yarn supply so it will travel through the winding equipment without stoppage. The companies say they would have to charge more than we are willing to pay for the product if they did not use this method. The following video showing the winding process of Caron One Pound is typical of the industry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

disgo said:


> Thank you Peggy Beryl as I was fumbling through my Saves to find that link. Even the finest Pendleton Wool had "flaws" inherent with all natural fibers. You learned to "work around" them like working with leather pelts. Even synthetics have an "acceptable" amount of makers knots so writing and Facebooking will be of no value but make you "feel" like you have changed the world when you haven't.
> 
> I agree with in that making underwear is a little beneath my time and skill level and I can not wear old style socks anymore anyway. Wasn't the former widowed queen found recently with all her garments on wearing knit knickers? Have you all a link to knit panties I can use?
> 
> ...


Dare I say quality in quality out once again.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

chickkie said:


> double post again - I guess my knee is not stable enough!


I must be missing something. What has the stability of your knee got to do with a double-post?


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

Knitnutty said:


> Thanks all. I am going to notify Paton. We shouldn't always have to be rolling yarn into balls to check their quality. It's not even a big skein.


Spend your time knitting instead. Why bother telling the company to do something they have no intention of doing. It isn't a matter of quality; it's an industry standard you will not change. They just laugh at your ignorance of the facts of doing business as a yarn merchant in today's dog-eat-dog business competition.

Forget being angry over what you cannot change. You will live longer and you and everyone else around you will be happier. Spend your energy dealing with what you can have some hope of controlling; this is not a worthwhile expenditure of time or energy.

I wish you better luck with your future yarn purchases; it is the luck of the draw whether your particular skein/ball/hank gets the knots or not. I happen to have been very lucky with my yarns and have seldom encountered a knot in over 70 years of knitting.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Dutchie1946 said:


> I must be missing something. What has the stability of your knee got to do with a double-post?


Maybe she has a knee controlled mouse. Sorta like the knee controlled sewing machines. LOL KWIM...


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

Knitnutty said:


> Thanks all. I am going to notify Paton. We shouldn't always have to be rolling yarn into balls to check their quality. It's not even a big skein.


A) Notifying the spinner may or may not get you any satisfaction. You have nothing to lose by sending them a e-mail, and that simple e-mail may _possibly_ net you an apologetic shipment of a ball or two of yarn. I wrote just asking about the local availability of a particular yarn colour, and was sent two 100 gram balls of it! Free, and unasked for!!

B) The size of the skein seems to have zero relationship to the number of knots - if any. I've had monster balls of yarn (100% acrylic) that hadn't a single knot. I've also had piddling balls of yarn (wool blend) (under 50g) that had multiple knots! There's just no accounting for if there'll be a knot or not. I also rewind most yarns before knitting.



jobailey said:


> That is exactly why I ALWAYS roll my yarn into cakes before I knit with it. *I want to know where the knots are, take them out and place the ends where I want them!*


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Peggy Beryl said:


> Spend your time knitting instead. Why bother telling the company to do something they have no intention of doing. It isn't a matter of quality; it's an industry standard you will not change. They just laugh at your ignorance of the facts of doing business as a yarn merchant in today's dog-eat-dog business competition.


I work with Madeline Tosh, Malabrigo, Lorna's Laces, Sweet Georgia, Manos del Uruguay, Biscotte&Cie BaaRamEwe and have yet to find knots in those yarns. Quality rules. Sorry to say.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Maybe she has a knee controlled mouse. Sorta like the knee controlled sewing machines. LOL KWIM...


Could be! 
I really wish I had my grandmother's knee-controlled Singer, or my aunt's knee-controlled Elna Supermatic. I detest the foot-controlled ones! I need to use it barefoot, and the damned thing gets too hot to touch!


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> I work with Madeline Tosh, Malabrigo, Lorna's Laces, Sweet Georgia, Manos del Uruguay, Biscotte&Cie BaaRamEwe and have yet to find knots in those yarns. Quality rules. Sorry to say.


I haven't found a knot in Red Heart, Caron, Patons, or most other yarns. As previously stated, it is just the luck of the draw--which skein you happen to buy.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Peggy Beryl said:


> If you have not experienced knots in your yarns, you have just been very lucky as it seems all manufacturers use knots in their manufacturing process. It is common practice to join the yarn supply so it will travel through the winding equipment without stoppage. The companies say they would have to charge more than we are willing to pay for the product if they did not use this method. The following video showing the winding process of Caron One Pound is typical of the industry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Dutchie1946 said:


> I must be missing something. What has the stability of your knee got to do with a double-post?


My mouse has a very long tail, my laptop has a nice sized screen that I have sitting off to the side sometimes, and sometimes I use my leg for a mousepad. If my leg jiggles it can cause cursor movement complications. lol Don't know if it's the same thing or not.


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

Dutchie1946 said:


> Could be!
> I really wish I had my grandmother's knee-controlled Singer, or my aunt's knee-controlled Elna Supermatic. I detest the foot-controlled ones! I need to use it barefoot, and the damned thing gets too hot to touch!


If your foot control is getting too hot to touch, I would be concerned about something being wrong in the electrical system. It sounds like the wiring between the machine and the control is not of adequate size for the task. The foot control of my Bernina remains cool with hours of continued use.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Dutchie1946 said:


> Could be!
> I really wish I had my grandmother's knee-controlled Singer, or my aunt's knee-controlled Elna Supermatic. I detest the foot-controlled ones! I need to use it barefoot, and the damned thing gets too hot to touch!


That's the only kind I used making back packs and shoes. LOL

At least I didn't have to attach it to the floor as I should now.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Peggy Beryl said:


> I haven't found a knot in Red Heart, Caron, Patons, or most other yarns. As previously stated, it is just the luck of the draw--which skein you happen to buy.


With those yarns that's true. With small runs and quality workmanship, I don't believe luck plays such an important role.


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Peggy Beryl said:


> I haven't found a knot in Red Heart, Caron, Patons, or most other yarns. As previously stated, it is just the luck of the draw--which skein you happen to buy.


I have found knots in Red Heart and Caron..


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Dutchie1946 said:


> I must be missing something. What has the stability of your knee got to do with a double-post?


my iPad is on my knee


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

chickkie said:


> my iPad is on my knee


Thank you for solving that mystery. Chickkie. We were curious. LOL


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## iShirl (Jun 30, 2012)

Oh how frustrating. I'm really sorry that happened but am wondering how hard is it for company's to catch those knots. But, of course, someone tied the knot so it should be put in "seconds" right then. Guess I figured out there is no excuse so complain to them. So sorry..


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

iShirl said:


> Oh how frustrating. I'm really sorry that happened but am wondering how hard is it for company's to catch those knots. But, of course, someone tied the knot so it should be put in "seconds" right then. Guess I figured out there is no excuse so complain to them. So sorry..


there are always knots when the spool empties and the next spool is tied on. That is done BEFORE it is made into skeins. The worker ties that new knot and changes the empty spool in very few seconds. It becomes a skein of yarn way down the line after this happens


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

Peggy Beryl said:


> If your foot control is getting too hot to touch, I would be concerned about something being wrong in the electrical system. It sounds like the wiring between the machine and the control is not of adequate size for the task. The foot control of my Bernina remains cool with hours of continued use.


My portable Singer sewing machine - the one with the hot foot control - dates from 1971, and always ran hot. I read lately that running it slowly makes the foot control get hotter than when it's run at higher speeds. Since I'm always afraid of running at high speed - as in a factory - I always ran it rather slowly. I was much happier using the foot-treadle machine - foot controlled and can go as slowly as I want, as well as through many layers of denim at a shot without breaking the needle. Since no one ever bothered upgrading the foot-treadle machines from just straight stitching and since I love zigzag stitching, I'll never be a happy sewer.

It's a moot point though. I haven't used any of my collection of sewing machines, including one new-in-the-box, in the last thirty or so years. I've given one away, but there are still at least a half-dozen here collecting dust.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Dutchie1946 said:


> My portable Singer sewing machine - the one with the hot foot control - dates from 1971, and always ran hot. I read lately that running it slowly makes the foot control get hotter than when it's run at higher speeds. Since I'm always afraid of running at high speed - as in a factory - I always ran it rather slowly. I was much happier using the foot-treadle machine - foot controlled and can go as slowly as I want, as well as through many layers of denim at a shot without breaking the needle. Since no one ever bothered upgrading the foot-treadle machines from just straight stitching and since I love zigzag stitching, I'll never be a happy sewer.
> 
> It's a moot point though. I haven't used any of my collection of sewing machines, including one new-in-the-box, in the last thirty or so years. I've given one away, but there are still at least a half-dozen here collecting dust.


My 1969 Singer golden touch and sew slant needle machine decided the other day that it needed new gears, and I'm really torn between spending the money to have gears replaced, since it has been done twice in the past 5 years and I don't sew a lot, or looking for another machine. I have jeans to hem and I want to finish a small raggedy quilt that I started last fall before we went south. I loved that machine, it did denim like it was butter.


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## kristinacavaz (Mar 4, 2015)

cathy47 said:


> Might be time to take and roll the sock yarns into cakes before starting to knit. I have noticed some yarns I never had that problem with before are now showing up. Hate it more when there are stripes or pattern of sorts.


I *wonder* if it is because more if not all yarns are Made in China these days. I don't know, just throwing the idea out there. Somewhere (on KP or another knit forum I can't remember? someone discussing about Aus. yarns that actually SAY "Made in Australia" were actually China, according to the Aus. branded store the yarn-er visited on a trip. Reason I think this is the China manufacturers are all about quantity and less about quality. You can't even rely on the "Made In" countries anymore- from what I read. I have found Made in Italy yarns work best for me but how long are those are really made there and not China again.


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## kristinacavaz (Mar 4, 2015)

chickkie said:


> My 1969 Singer golden touch and sew slant needle machine decided the other day that it needed new gears, and I'm really torn between spending the money to have gears replaced, since it has been done twice in the past 5 years and I don't sew a lot, or looking for another machine. I have jeans to hem and I want to finish a small raggedy quilt that I started last fall before we went south. I loved that machine, it did denim like it was butter.


Can I butt in- hmm replaced same issue twice in last 5 yrs is not *that* bad, but I would repair that nice machine instead of getting a newer one. Personal opinion as I love those metal machines with real metal parts. Newer machines are all flimsy and "throwaway" not meant to last.

There are SO many old old machines in thrift stores these days I am tempted to pick up one of the heavy old ones. I am in Arizona there are always a few on the shelves at Goodwills here.


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

kristinacavaz said:


> Can I butt in- hmm replaced same issue twice in last 5 yrs is not *that* bad, but I would repair that nice machine instead of getting a newer one. Personal opinion as I love those metal machines with real metal parts. Newer machines are all flimsy and "throwaway" not meant to last.
> 
> There are SO many old old machines in thrift stores these days I am tempted to pick up one of the heavy old ones. I am in Arizona there are always a few on the shelves at Goodwills here.


Sorry about going off topic, but I just took my old Pfaff out of the closet this last weekend. I had not used it in about 6 years. I cleaned it & knew that it might be 'frozen' from lack of use. Well, amazingly, I got it to sew although I had to fix the thread tension...no problem. However, the pressure foot lever is not working as it should & my automatic needle threader is broken. The walking foot still works great! I still love that machine because in all the years I've had it, it has never failed me. Bought it new in 1987 & used the heck out of it over the years. It is a limited edition (a light lilac color) & super heavy although it's a "portable". So I'm off to the repair shop tomorrow to get it serviced & running like new.

As to knots in your yarn...a ball winder is one of the best investments a knitter can make!


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

How nice for the manufacturers that they can set an industry standard of faulty quality. Someone said that they can't correct it if they don't know, and it's up to us to let them know . Of course they already know, they've met the allowable standard.

We don't get to set the price, or decide how much to deduct for each knot, so why should they get to say imperfections are ok.

Yes, we should let them know that we demand perfection. If something accidentally slips by, that's one thing, but to allow themselves that leeway, is unacceptable.


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

chickkie said:


> My 1969 Singer golden touch and sew slant needle machine decided the other day that it needed new gears, and I'm really torn between spending the money to have gears replaced, since it has been done twice in the past 5 years and I don't sew a lot, or looking for another machine. I have jeans to hem and I want to finish a small raggedy quilt that I started last fall before we went south. I loved that machine, it did denim like it was butter.


If you have already replaced the gears twice within five years and not had much use out of these repairs, I would certainly not do it again. I am still using my 1963 Bernina with all its original parts and hundreds of hours of use to its history. I have bought a Singer and a Brother since purchasing the Bernina, but got rid of them when I found out how useless they were; I'll stick with my old faithful. One of my main reasons for buying the Bernina in the first place was the demonstration of sewing over four layers of heavy denim to hem work jeans for my rancher husband.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

All the yarn you buy cheap or expensive seems to have at least one knot init the yarn i am using now,Zealander @ $47 a 50 gram ball i am finding knot's in.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

Knitnutty said:


> I am knitting socks with Patons Kroy sock yarn for my Grandson. I am knitting along matching stripes great and along comes a spot where the yarn is split and tied in a knot. It just makes me so darn mad to run into that when everything was going so well and sock is almost complete. This will be the last yarn I buy from them.


Don't just tell us... write to the manufacturer. It really does not matter how expensive your yarn is...this can happen. Some folks rewind every skein of yarn that they purchase, just to be sure to avoid that eventuality. I am not one of them. When this has happened with yarn/socks that I am working on, I shrug my shoulders and figure that fraternal twin socks will work. BUT, I will always complain to the manufacturers...and have often found 3 skeins of yarn for each of the colors I have complained about in the mail within a few weeks.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I do not ever remember having a knot in Red Heart Super Saver and I use a lot of that for slippers. I do find knots in the other yarns I pay more for. I imagine if they were to eliminate every knot, the price would have to go up for every skein. Rewind any yarn into cakes before use, gives you a heads up about knots before they become a huge problem.


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

Surely we don't have to accept what in every other manufacuring process would be sold as 'seconds'. Please complain and then maybe they will find a way of joining without knots. In this day and age there must be a way.


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## Tashi (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh that's annoying but please do not be angry, it serves no purpose and only upsets your good self.


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## Windbeam (Jul 31, 2011)

Keep that in mind and don't buy it again. When I pay top price it makes me mad to get seconds.


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

Windbeam said:


> Keep that in mind and don't buy it again. When I pay top price it makes me mad to get seconds.


 :thumbup:


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## kayortiz (Aug 12, 2013)

go to crochet crowd site video "how yarn is wound" and it will explain why there are knots in yarn. matching strips on sweaters yes matching strips on socks not so important.enjoy making them for your grandson


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## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

I have been winding my yarn into balls before I use it no matter who I buy it from because I have found that many times in skeins and it throws off the design a lot sometimes. I try to adjust the second ball to compensate but it is a pain for sure. Sorry that you have had this happen.


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## Windbeam (Jul 31, 2011)

But doesn't it seem strange that there were never knots in good yarn before? Even in the not so expensive yarns you never used to find knots in them either. Why can't they sell the end of the roll as a second?


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## jemima (Mar 26, 2011)

Yarn manufacturers are getting very careless with knots .They always seem to appear at the most important part of garment and patterns.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Unfortunately, even the most expensive sock yarn will occasionally have a knot. I just had the same problem, had to frog and do a braided join so it wouldn't show. (BTW, very expensive 100% washable merino fingering).


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## stitcheswarden10 (Jul 24, 2014)

Yes we ALL hate knots. I also am puzzled why imperfect yarn can be sold for full price but unfortunately that is the case. I have experienced knots also even in Noro yarn!!!! Always rewind your yarn especially with self stripping. Upward and onward. &#128522;


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## Jean Keith (Feb 17, 2011)

I just finished making a hat and had 4 knots before I finished. Don't remember which brand it was only that it was so disgusting.


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## snughollow (Aug 4, 2012)

You never know wen you will run into a knot.


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## Marny CA (Jun 26, 2011)

Please let the yarn company know!! Send a photo of the knot, if possible.

I had problems with Caron Simply Soft and they send me a few new skeins!!

Where I could, I cut off the bad areas and just carefully integrated the yarn into what was already done. We do that anyway.


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## roseknit (Apr 2, 2011)

Sometimes knots are unavoidable, I wouldn,t stress out about it, just contact the company I am sure they will replace the ball.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

I have used atleast 75 balls of yarn A with nary a knot...knit one sock and found 4 knots before I got to the heel. Yarn was replaced without question and I have used 6 skeins since then and found no knots. I just got a horrible skein. Quality control was asleep that day.


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## CI of NC (Feb 27, 2015)

Lay your socks away. Write a detailed letter to the management office. Be nice but firm about what happened. Send them a picture of the sock and the knotted string. Very nicely tell them you would appreciate a new skein of yarn to finish your sock. Send the numbers on the yarn or a photo of it. If they are worth their salt you will get a new matching skein of yarn.

CI of NC Charlene


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Windbeam said:


> But doesn't it seem strange that there were never knots in good yarn before? Even in the not so expensive yarns you never used to find knots in them either. Why can't they sell the end of the roll as a second?


And how many "seconds" would you be buying then. Would you be willing to pay $15 for 200 yds. for the quality stuff which was the price after your 50% discount? What company is making self stripped yarns for a full length slevved duster form just the majority of the skein (with no knots of course) with enough left over to make at least a matching cowl, finger less gloves AND the hat??? Have none ever tied on ever???

That is what I did at the Pendleton Mill factory store matching their "second" garments of great quality that even I could not and even they sometimes could not see. It depended on the QA person on shift and they had standards they looked for. Worked great since I would them make the corresponding garment piece for the full outfit and charged the full Pendleton price getting the matching fabric from the bolt end table with much digging and taking pieces to the few windows in the old shearing shed it formerly was, so in essence I was only making a small profit to correct the issue.

How quick people are to point out what they consider issues when paying little in the first place. Do any of you look at your stash skeins that still had price labels to see that yarn has not climbed in price like milk. Milk is okay and yarn is not!!!! And don't give me the *quality* baloney since my friend (who worked for Vogue Knits) would get French made yarns (when American made was considered sub-standards and the elite went to Paris for all their fittings and other needs) of the highest quality and prices to boot that were loaded with twists (you never knotted anything back then) since they were still processed on the original industrial machines the factory started with in the early 1800s and promoted that fact.

You are all showing your spoiled age when making such rants as when did your great-great grandmother walk into the mercantile (that my great great grandfather ran) and pick up eight skeins of the same dye lot of any fiber (yes they had rayon and other polyamides even back then that were far more expensive then the finest wool you all so covet now days). Knots came when the better mills closed that sold hanks without labels stating the yardage but only the weight and you did not buy ounces but pounds like pickles in a barrel until some wise mercantile owner placed an opened one (that had been damaged in shipment) out near the cash register (so they could keep an eye on fingers) with a sign for "per pickle".

It is due to you all wanting certain yardage as the Caron video states, but most ignore, that is the reason for knots. Yes they can use "leaders" to keep machines running like one does with thread on industrial sewing machines and sergers (which even their looper threads get knotted and one can not pick them out by eye) so there is no threading involved unless breakage occurs which happened a lot that you have no idea about now. One ball of Bernat Blanket had three knots less than two yards or less apart at the very beginning of the inside ball end. They probably figured like most of you that it would be used from the outer end and would not hinder anything at the other end.

If you want to rant then by all means do so on those that use a portion of the inside of a skein and return it for a full refund and it just gets placed back on the shelf. You should stop such practices (good luck with that also) and cut the label off but keep it with the yarn (like they would possibly take that in a return situation without some other factor involved with the yarn like no dye in a long stretch the machine can not see and the company does not pay people to watch for. How many workers did you see making all those skeins on the Caron video? NOT even in Made In America as we too had quality issues--we just sent it all overseas instead to point fingers at others. Now with China making even the fiber that Turkey still uses through their colonialization machines to make wool/yarn and labels Made in Turkey you need to become more aware of how the system works now. In case you missed the news recently where they were showing the "catch of the day" in the North Sea doesn't even reach shore but is helicoptered to waiting jets in Holland (like their flowers have been doing for more than 60 years) and whisked to China to be processed and sent back to be sold in Scotland the next morning as "fresh"!

China is beating all of the other countries in fiber and is why alibaba took off with that as their main clients and is now larger than Amazon with St. Laurent and Gucci suing yesterday for alibaba's knock offs so this should set the copyright infringement world on its ear. Will KP begin to offer us all protective gear to weather the war about to break out anyday???? Will there be accommodating shelters for knitters since it annoys others greatly in confined spaces????? :-o :shock: :lol:

Continuez de Tricoter will be our battle cry as you all march topless up the steps with a huge Feather and Fan flag being waved with the rest of use with pins and hooks at full arms reach to scare the you know what out of them. Oops I forgot it is now mob bombs (that we hire) on social media on the biggest and newest smart phone just out that will instantly link through all the communication satellites for the whole world to see. I so need to catch up with the times.


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## CI of NC (Feb 27, 2015)

Send them a picture of the sock and the knot. They will most likely send you a new skein of matching yarn.

CI of NC Charlene


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## LindaH (Feb 1, 2011)

I too roll my supposed skeins into cakes or balls before I start knitting with them. It makes it easier to catch knots or white spots in the yarn before I get halfway into my project. I have 3 skeins of the Paton's Kroy sock yarn, and I will be sure to do this because of what your post said. I thank you for the heads up! I would complain to the company if I were you. You never know what they would be willing to do to make you a happy camper. It is worth a shot, right?


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## suse (Nov 1, 2013)

I did complain when shorted on yardage. Did receive another skein. However, it was accompanied by a note that this was the only time they would honor a complaint or request by me.
I do like the Kroy yarn but have not, nor will not, buy more!


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## yanagi (Jul 7, 2013)

While I don't care about socks being exact twins, I do understand your frustration. Please email (write, whatever) Kroy and let them know. Many manufacturers are moving their spinneries to China where they merrily tie a knot and go on, no matter how many knots that puts in one skein. Knitters need to make the companies understand that this is not acceptable by complaining. (I actually wonder how many companies actually have knitters in management and quality control.)


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

yanagi said:


> While I don't care about socks being exact twins, I do understand your frustration. Please email (write, whatever) Kroy and let them know. Many manufacturers are moving their spinneries to China where they merrily tie a knot and go on, no matter how many knots that puts in one skein. Knitters need to make the companies understand that this is not acceptable by complaining. (I actually wonder how many companies actually have knitters in management and quality control.)


Well said yanagi! My sentiments exactly. As long as we accept 'seconds' they will continue to knot the yarn. It is up to us to have this practice changed.


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## Grandma Jo (Feb 18, 2011)

A lot of yarns have knots in them. Even expensive yarns.


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## nannee (Mar 12, 2011)

I share your pain


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## JWayne (May 18, 2011)

Is there anyway you can spit splice the yarns together. Maybe a little thicker but really unnoticeable. You could knit the join on the front of the sock so no rubbing. PM me if you would like any information on spit splicing.


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## yona (Feb 7, 2011)

I feel your pain, that is really too bad. You've gotten some great advice already like posting a complaint on their Facebook page and winding the yarn before starting your project to check for any flaws.


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## JYannucci (Nov 29, 2011)

jobailey said:


> That is exactly why I ALWAYS roll my yarn into cakes before I knit with it. I want to know where the knots are, take them out and place the ends where I want them!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitnutty (Feb 9, 2011)

I notified the company


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## arkynana (Apr 11, 2011)

I feel your pain... Mine is always increased when I remember that my 4-H Knitting teacher always insisted that we rewind center pull skeins just so we could check for those 'problem areas'... It seemed unnecessary at the time, but I know from experience that it can be a time saver... As I'm reminded often when I don't rewind and am 'surprised' by a mid-skein yarn join...


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## Tove (Oct 27, 2012)

I watched a documentary on TV on how yarn is made....from the initial machine spinning of yarns to winding into the finished cones or balls of yarn as we purchase in stores. 
It showed how yarn is tied together to ensure equal amounts in each finished ball either because it is the end of the giant cone or the yarn broke while winding, it is a common practice with yarn manufactures.
If you get balls without knots it is because it is wound off their giant cones somewhere in the middle and the yarn has not broken.


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## Kroshay Bear (May 14, 2015)

I've had the same problem with Caron yarn while crocheting baby blankets for hosps. 

I also spent over an hour trying to find the starting yarn so I emailed them & told them I wouldn't be buying their yarn any more & why. 

Along comes a box of 3 skeins of their yarn so I can spend more time trying to "fight" with it. Yes, Angry is how I'd described it too. :thumbdown: :x


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

I usually find a knot in the yarn I'm using, no matter how expensive.

It's very difficult to match socks as you're knitting them. But unmatched socks are fine, too. After all, no one will notice the "mistake." So, maybe you could go on knitting the sock as it is.

Hazel


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## Kroshay Bear (May 14, 2015)

Maybe I'm missing something here. Fill me in, Gang. You wind the yarn in balls to find any knots. Then what do you do when you find a knot? 

I crochet to a knot then cut the knot out. Now I keep 2 lps of the current st & bring the yarn in that I cut the knot out of leaving a long tail to work in later. Is that what someone called spit splice? I'm experienced but this is a new term to me. Glad to have learned it.


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## Laujob (Sep 5, 2014)

Bought my Singer cabinet model in 1953. My husband said that because it was a fairly expensive outlay of cash, I couldn't have another for 10 years. Just last year, my son took it to a Sewing machine shop to service it. It runs beautifully and does everything I need it for. Wish I were more creative when using it, but it does very well!


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Is it okay to pay the same for a ball of wool without knots and one with knots. I do not think so. If there is not a complaint en masse, manufacturers will continue with this shoddy practice. Is this a recent phenomena with so much being produced in China - perhaps our long standing knitters can enlighten us.


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## shad88 (Jun 4, 2015)

I feel angry too. 
I wish they would go back to making more plain colours for their kroy sock yarn, I do not like all the gaudy colours that they use now. They limit what you can do with them.
Does anyone else feel this way?


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

There was recently a discussion on the Forum about how yarn is made and a link to a video from (I believe) Red Heart. It was explained that knots sometimes appear in a skein so the yarn does not have to be thrown away, thus greatly reducing waste. This practice keeps perfectly good yarn out of the landfill and also helps keep the price in line.

I agree with those who rewind skeins into cakes to find the knots prior to use.

Bob
The KnittyGritty


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Yarnspirations has red, black, grey and an off white they call muslin.

I wish they still made the 3ply sock yarn. I have 2 cones of 3ply all the same brown and I would like some different colors as I can't see making up that many pairs of plain brown socks


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## farmkiti (Oct 13, 2011)

Kroshay Bear said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Fill me in, Gang. You wind the yarn in balls to find any knots. Then what do you do when you find a knot?
> 
> I crochet to a knot then cut the knot out. Now I keep 2 lps of the current st & bring the yarn in that I cut the knot out of leaving a long tail to work in later. Is that what someone called spit splice? I'm experienced but this is a new term to me. Glad to have learned it.


Many knitters hate to find a knot unexpectedly in a skein of yarn because (especially if the colors change) it might mess up the pattern of stripes on their socks, scarf, or sweater. The manufacturers don't always add the new piece of yarn in the same color or even in the same direction that the colors were going before. What you're doing is fine, I do it all the time, but it doesn't always work for striping colors.

"Spit splicing" is using your own saliva and your fingertips to roll and mash wool together to make a join without knots. In effect, it felts the wool at the join. I've heard it works very well for natural wools. I haven't done it myself because I don't knit with wool. I don't think it would work on synthetics or cotton or linen.


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

shad88 said:


> I feel angry too.
> I wish they would go back to making more plain colours for their kroy sock yarn, I do not like all the gaudy colours that they use now. They limit what you can do with them.
> Does anyone else feel this way?


I wish they offered more solid colors too. Then when you get a knot it's no big deal. Just cut, rejoin, and knit on. Frankly, there's no shortage of other brands that offer solid colors, and even at a lower price. Knit Picks Stroll and Valley Yarns Huntington are two that come to mind.


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## sztain (Feb 24, 2015)

I have found knots in many different yarns from all brands. Just cut it and find a strand to match where you where and join the yarn.


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> There was recently a discussion on the Forum about how yarn is made and a link to a video from (I believe) Red Heart. It was explained that knots sometimes appear in a skein so the yarn does not have to be thrown away, thus greatly reducing waste. This practice keeps perfectly good yarn out of the landfill and also helps keep the price in line.
> 
> I agree with those who rewind skeins into cakes to find the knots prior to use.
> 
> ...


Then it should be sold as a second


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

I respectfully disagree that it should be sold as a second. I am unable to find the thread discussing the manufacturing process and why yarn is knotted, but perhaps someone else will remember it and find the link to the video. It is very informative and may change your perspective. I apologize that I cannot find the video.

Bob
The KnittyGritty


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## Connie W (Aug 3, 2011)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> I respectfully disagree that it should be sold as a second. I am unable to find the thread discussing the manufacturing process and why yarn is knotted, but perhaps someone else will remember it and find the link to the video. It is very informative and may change your perspective. I apologize that I cannot find the video.
> 
> Bob
> The KnittyGritty


I read that thread when it ran. However, I have been knitting for54 years and it's only been relatively recently (maybe 20 years or so) that I've found this to be a problem.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Connie W said:


> Then it should be sold as a second


If you expect every ball of yarn to be perfect then you are a dreamer! You would not be able to afford to buy any yarn unless you had very very deep pockets as it would be so labor intensive. All companies have knots in their yarn, in some skeins or hanks. It is just the way it is. If there are many knots in a ball of yarn then you would have reason to complain.


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

chickkie said:


> If you expect every ball of yarn to be perfect then you are a dreamer! You would not be able to afford to buy any yarn unless you had very very deep pockets as it would be so labor intensive. All companies have knots in their yarn, in some skeins or hanks. It is just the way it is. If there are many knots in a ball of yarn then you would have reason to complain.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## beahop (Sep 1, 2014)

If you took the time to wind them into yarn cakes, you would have discovered the knots. I do and find even non-striping yarns have knots also. Go back and complain to the company and wait for improvements before you start another project with this type of yarn. Bea


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## bcheyney (Aug 10, 2014)

Dutchie1946 said:


> ...I was much happier using the foot-treadle machine - foot controlled and can go as slowly as I want, as well as through many layers of denim at a shot without breaking the needle. Since no one ever bothered upgrading the foot-treadle machines from just straight stitching and since I love zigzag stitching, I'll never be a happy sewer.
> 
> It's a moot point though. I haven't used any of my collection of sewing machines, including one new-in-the-box, in the last thirty or so years. I've given one away, but there are still at least a half-dozen here collecting dust.


DI'd you know that Janome makes a treadle machine with zigzag stitches? It is a 700 something model.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

kiwiannie said:


> All the yarn you buy cheap or expensive seems to have at least one knot init the yarn i am using now,Zealander @ $47 a 50 gram ball i am finding knots in.


I don't care whose dollars those are. At that price, I'd be screaming to the maker for a free - and knot-free! - replacement ball of yarn!

By the way, it converts to $33.56 USD


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

Windbeam said:


> But doesn't it seem strange that there were never knots in good yarn before? Even in the not so expensive yarns you never used to find knots in them either. Why can't they sell the end of the roll as a second?


Memory is fickle. I know there have always been knots in yarn - regardless of price range - because I have collected yarns that are at least as old as I am (69), and some skeins/balls do have manufacturers' knots in them. Of course, those were all solid-colour wools; either no one was making variegated/graduated/self-striping yarns then, or none of those has yet wandered into my stash.

It's never fun to find a knot, but it's not the end of the world. If it really irks you, write to the manufacturer ... assuming it's still in business and the yarn was a recent purchase. For my antique yarns, there's nothing to do but undo the knot and knit on.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

Kroshay Bear said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Fill me in, Gang. You wind the yarn in balls to find any knots. Then what do you do when you find a knot? ...


When I rewind my yarn and run into a knot, I undo (or cut) the knot and begin a new ball. That way, *I* get to decide where in my project I join.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

chickkie said:


> Yarnspirations has red, black, grey and an off white they call muslin.
> 
> I wish they still made the 3ply sock yarn. I have 2 cones of 3ply all the same brown and I would like some different colors as I can't see making up that many pairs of plain brown socks


Umm ... dye? Since sock yarn is 75% wool, you should be able to over-dye it to some slightly different shade. Since the other 25% is usually nylon and since nylon is infamous for picking up any stray dye in the wash (white mostly-nylon bra caught up inside a red silk shirt = pink-forever bra), even the nylon portion might take on a new shade.


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## Dutchie1946 (Jun 19, 2012)

bcheyney said:


> DI'd you know that Janome makes a treadle machine with zigzag stitches? It is a 700 something model.


Janome website: http://www.janome.com/en/machines/sewing/712t/

I found a video: 




I found its instruction manual: http://www.aaasewing.com/manualsPDF/Janome%20712T%20Instruction%20Book%20(En).pdf

I found a recent review of it: http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/janome-treadle-powered-sewing-machine-review/

Now, I just need to figure out how to sneak something that solid and heavy into the house!!! (Yarn is light and squishes well!) 

Edit:
I love the instruction manual's final sentence!
*To install the machine onto a sewing table, refer to the instructions
with your sewing table for more details.*
My sewing table is decades older than I am, and it's got no instructions whatsoever!! Gotta love it!


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## Countrygal90 (May 7, 2014)

charbooth said:


> Dearest Knitnutty... I've been knitting for 50 years and have absolutely run away from knitting socks (makes me shudder to even think of knitting socks).. your message makes me understand even more clearly why I have not taken up socks - I've done pantsuits, dresses - sequin tops., etc. but never socks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh dear and I wouldn't think of knitting anything as involved as a dress. Socks are my thing and I don't try to match them. Mismatched socks are all the rage now. My friend bought some knit socks and they were not matched. I love anything mismatched or asymmetrical. But that is just me. I never wanted to knit socks because I didn't want a matching pair. Guess i'm right 'up town' now...LOL


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Write the company and complain to them. I had a problem with Red Heart and they made good on the yarn. Totally irritating!


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## bcheyney (Aug 10, 2014)

Now, I just need to figure out how to sneak something that solid and heavy into the house!!! (Yarn is light and squishes well!) 

This is why I still do not have one!

Edit:
I love the instruction manual's final sentence!
*To install the machine onto a sewing table, refer to the instructions
with your sewing table for more details.*
My sewing table is decades older than I am, and it's got no instructions whatsoever!! Gotta love it! [/quote]

I have an old Pfaff industrial treadle machine in a table, but I am not sure it would fit......


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## charliesaunt (Apr 22, 2011)

I had problem recently with Lion Brand dye lots, they replaced the yarn, but the effort and time were wasted. Several months ago I was knotting a pair of socks with a high quality and expensive yarn...I believe it was ManIntosh...hit 3 knots in short runs.... the socks are still on the needles somewhere. Frustrated.


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## cinjean48 (Sep 16, 2013)

Many years ago I worked at a mill that made yarn and the rule or law was that 3 knots to a skein are acceptable. hate it, but I don't think the rules have changed


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## jeannie2954 (Apr 19, 2011)

I have rolled the yarn into ball/cakes and missed a clipped knot until I was working the yarn up (could be old eyes). My thinking is if I purchase a lower end yarn I shouldn't expect perfection. But if I am purchasing something other than the cheaper yarn it should be perfect or they should reduce the price and sell it as seconds.

I am sorry that happened to you.


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## Islander (Aug 25, 2014)

I have had Noro Silk Garden with more than 3 knots!


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

This is a most interesting thread to read. It would appear that most of us expect to have a continuous piece of thread to work with when purchasing a ball of wool. The manufacturers accept that that there are imperfect balls sold with knots, as they would appear quite willing to replace when a complaint is made. I would suggest therefore that a warning be printed on the label that the product may have knots and should be rewound before use. As it stands, we are being given the false expectation that the ball will be knot free.


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

I expect a knot or two...if you really expect yarn without knots you'll have to spin and skein your own. Maybe you can keep a few sheep...or raise some silk worms if that's more to your taste. How about planting a few cotton plants then harvesting, ginning, processing, spinning and dying to get a ball of cotton yarn or crochet thread? And we haven't begun to discuss the complicated chemical magic that it takes to produce acrylic and other "man made" fibers.

I expect a knot now and then.

Bob
The KnittyGritty


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## stitcheswarden10 (Jul 24, 2014)

Jeannie/2954 I agree with you wholeheartedly.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> I expect a knot or two...if you really expect yarn without knots you'll have to spin and skein your own. Maybe you can keep a few sheep...or raise some silk worms if that's more to your taste. How about planting a few cotton plants then harvesting, ginning, processing, spinning and dying to get a ball of cotton yarn or crochet thread? And we haven't begun to discuss the complicated chemical magic that it takes to produce acrylic and other "man made" fibers.
> 
> I expect a knot now and then.
> 
> ...


It is impossible not to have a knot or a join somewhere! Good post :thumbup:


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## ireneofnc (Aug 15, 2011)

I understand your frustration, and that is the main reason why I wind up my yarn skeins into a ball before I start using them. Almost always, there's a hidden knot somewhere! It never fails!


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

I usually wind my skeins into center pull balls. The one time I didn't, I was halfway through the skein when I encountered a knot. I wasn't upset. I just cut it out and started the skein over. Several inches into the knitting, I discovered that the yarn that was knotted on was a different dye lot!!! Now that freaked me out.

Had to frog the whole thing and start it over with the rest of the second skein that did match the beginning of the first skein.

I will never break my rules again. I wind the. All first even if cheap pull skeins.


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

Kroshay Bear said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Fill me in, Gang. You wind the yarn in balls to find any knots. Then what do you do when you find a knot?
> 
> I crochet to a knot then cut the knot out. Now I keep 2 lps of the current st & bring the yarn in that I cut the knot out of leaving a long tail to work in later. Is that what someone called spit splice? I'm experienced but this is a new term to me. Glad to have learned it.


Spit splicing only works with 100% animal fibers; not a solution for man-made fibers or cotton.


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## RP1019 (May 23, 2014)

Grandma G. said:


> That happened to me too with Kroy, there was no way I could get the colour runs matching & still have enough yarn to finish the socks after the knot.


You know, these are reputable companies, you would think that they would know that when there is a striping pattern you can't just tie in something somewhere. I had a skein (not Patons or Kroy) where the part that was tied on matched colorways, but did not have the same patterning at all.


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## RP1019 (May 23, 2014)

Crochetnknit said:


> I usually wind my skeins into center pull balls. The one time I didn't, I was halfway through the skein when I encountered a knot. I wasn't upset. I just cut it out and started the skein over. Several inches into the knitting, I discovered that the yarn that was knotted on was a different dye lot!!! Now that freaked me out.
> 
> Had to frog the whole thing and start it over with the rest of the second skein that did match the beginning of the first skein.
> 
> I will never break my rules again. I wind the. All first even if cheap pull skeins.


Yep. See above.


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## RP1019 (May 23, 2014)

cinjean48 said:


> Many years ago I worked at a mill that made yarn and the rule or law was that 3 knots to a skein are acceptable. hate it, but I don't think the rules have changed


I understand knots in plain yarn, but when there is striping, as in the case of the original poster, then the tied on yarn needs to be in the same pattern as the original. Otherwise for those of us who like matching socks, the yarn is wasted. That is a terrible way to waste time and money!


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