# Smoking and Obamacare #16



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now there's a brilliant idea! I've just heard interesting news. Later Huck.



Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Ever thought of just speaking to each other and leave us alone?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Huck, I counted twelve of us last time I tried. Maybe we should be The Dozen Stooges or The Three Stooges Plus Nine? or The Pack of Stooges....if they get us mixed up with Moe, Larry & Curlie too much.


Pack of Stooges is most befitting. Very descriptive as you all can't do anything without your pack leader and you all have a pack mentality. Go for it!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find the writing so good. The characters have developed in ways I never imagined, and their interaction is great. Bazinga forever!



SeattleSoul said:


> We get an hour of TBBT here, and my mother and I both look forward to our hour away from the so-called real world. It's like a little oasis every day of the week. And on Thursdays we get the reruns plus a current episode. We love Thursdays's. We love Sheldon andLleonard and Howard and Raj and Penny and Bernadette and, and , and...we really hope Sheldon and Amy will finally "do the deed".


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> We get an hour of TBBT here, and my mother and I both look forward to our hour away from the so-called real world. It's like a little oasis every day of the week. And on Thursdays we get the reruns plus a current episode. We love Thursdays's. We love Sheldon andLleonard and Howard and Raj and Penny and Bernadette and, and , and...we really hope Sheldon and Amy will finally "do the deed".


Seattle it's so much fun just to have that escape and have a good laugh. The characters are all wonderful and I enjoy watching the reruns too. Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens with Amy and Sheldon, "Shamy" and I hope Raj will finally get over his "problem" and find true love. Good to hear you and your Mom enjoy the show too. Bazinga! what a fun word :-D


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Patty, Glad you're home. I've missed you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Ever thought of just speaking to each other and leave us alone?


Have you?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Patty, It looks like everyone missed you, although they don't seem to be able to express it politely. Delighted...disgusted....it's all a d-word to them. I'm definitely delighted and so are all the rest of the Stooges. 

Bazinga...how I love that word.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This thread is the property of everyone on KP it does not matter who started it, if I remember correctly. Andrea, me, you and lucklucy can all post out here. Why so defensive? Can't we all just have a nice discussion?


You don't have nice discussions on this thread. You might on LOLL, but not here. How about you start one?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Pack of Stooges is most befitting. Very descriptive as you all can't do anything without your pack leader and you all have a pack mentality. Go for it!!!


Cheer up solowey. We are a group of women who enjoy each others company and we like discussing a variety of topics and have a bit of fun too. No pack mentality here and no leader. We are free to be whoever we want to be. Variety is the spice of life. Turn your frown upside down and let's see you smile. Stooges do have a lot of fun so yes I will go for it :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't have nice discussions on this thread. You might on LOLL, but not here. How about you start one?


I'm enjoying myself on this thread, Solowey so I will stay here. Maybe you would like to start a nice discussion on another thread but you are welcome to stay here too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Complete discussions are being released. It appears that Issa was selecting quotes out of context and just quotes reflecting poorly on the opposition. I'm (NOT) shocked. More to come.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, I have heard that too. I don't care who they are if they are trying to claim exempt status and they are not entitled to it they shouldn't have it. Abuse is abuse no matter who is doing it. I think the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court is a blatant travesty and certainly needs to be overturned. Considering corporations citizens? I think not. Some members of the Court have been far too cozy with the GOP. Talk about hiding money to finance political elections, this is the granddaddy of them all. I didn't here any on the right complain about this decision. Did anyone else?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheer up solowey. We are a group of women who enjoy each others company and we like discussing a variety of topics and have a bit of fun too. No pack mentality here and no leader. We are free to be whoever we want to be. Variety is the spice of life. Turn your frown upside down and let's see you smile. Stooges do have a lot of fun so yes I will go for it :thumbup:


That's just the problem you all are part of a pack. All you do is play follow the leader, from the "fun" words you use, to your avatar changes, to your nasty comments and the way you all gang up on one person at a time. That is pack mentality. So, go ahead and have your fun. You are fooling no one but yourself.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Only to you, lukelucy. It's just such a fun word to say!


Not only to me. Fun? Fun? Huh?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Complete discussions are being released. It appears that Issa was selecting quotes out of context and just quotes reflecting poorly on the opposition. I'm (NOT) shocked. More to come.


I think Issa may end up looking badly and I won't be surprised either but any wrong doing does need to be cleaned up and better sooner than later.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That's just the problem you all are part of a pack. All you do is play follow the leader, from the "fun" words you use, to your avatar changes, to your nasty comments and the way you all gang up on one person at a time. That is pack mentality. So, go ahead and have your fun. You are fooling no one but yourself.


So what is your point by coming out here to post then if you don't like the discussion? Who is hurting you? If you don't feel comfortable there are hundreds of threads you can post on or as you suggested to me, start your own. You must be getting some satisfaction out here or you wouldn't be here, right? It's not complicated, Solowey.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Not only to me. Fun? Fun? Huh?


Sorry you don't like it, lukelucy. Why don't you get out your sense of humor and laugh. Don't you think it is a funny word. Maybe you should watch the show, Big Bang, and you will see how funny it is and why we love Bazinga! Do you have a fun word you like that you would share with us? Smile it's good for you. :-D


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

We've even said some rude words to the TV when sporting events ace out TBBT and we don't get to have our fun. My mom didn't like TBBT at first, but the reruns come on just after dinner and I persisted in watching and finally converted her. I love the way Bernadette goes from sweet to scary in a nanosecond. Howard sure did marry someone like his Mom, didn't he? I can't remember the name of Raj's very shy girlfriend (or maybe she's still a girl who's his friend) who climbs out of bathroom windows when she wants to get away from too much sociability. I hope they finally get together.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Seattle it's so much fun just to have that escape and have a good laugh. The characters are all wonderful and I enjoy watching the reruns too. Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens with Amy and Sheldon, "Shamy" and I hope Raj will finally get over his "problem" and find true love. Good to hear you and your Mom enjoy the show too. Bazinga! what a fun word :-D


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So what is your point by coming out here to post then if you don't like the discussion? Who is hurting you? If you don't feel comfortable there are hundreds of threads you can post on or as you suggested to me, start your own. You must be getting some satisfaction out here or you wouldn't be here, right? It's not complicated, Solowey.


Solowey, I started this thread and YOU are invited here by me. The others should go. You are VERY welcome here.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Solowey, I started this thread and YOU are invited here by me. The others should go. You are VERY welcome here.


I hope you have a nice day Lukelucy and you too Solowey.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> We've even said some rude words to the TV when sporting events ace out TBBT and we don't get to have our fun. My mom didn't like TBBT at first, but the reruns come on just after dinner and I persisted in watching and finally converted her. I love the way Bernadette goes from sweet to scary in a nanosecond. Howard sure did marry someone like his Mom, didn't he? I can't remember the name of Raj's very shy girlfriend (or maybe she's still a girl who's his friend) who climbs out of bathroom windows when she wants to get away from too much sociability. I hope they finally get together.


I am glad they left Raj's relationship open ended with his friend. It will be fun to see what happens next season. So far they have kept the relationships pretty interesting. Sounds like you and your Mom enjoy them as much as I do.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Solowey, I started this thread and YOU are invited here by me. The others should go. You are VERY welcome here.


Thank you Lukelucy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rah's shy girlfriend! A perfect example of a new character being written into the mix. They're both shy having the same problems but expressing them in different ways. Of course we love watching to see what comes next....or even the reruns make me laugh again and again.



SeattleSoul said:


> We've even said some rude words to the TV when sporting events ace out TBBT and we don't get to have our fun. My mom didn't like TBBT at first, but the reruns come on just after dinner and I persisted in watching and finally converted her. I love the way Bernadette goes from sweet to scary in a nanosecond. Howard sure did marry someone like his Mom, didn't he? I can't remember the name of Raj's very shy girlfriend (or maybe she's still a girl who's his friend) who climbs out of bathroom windows when she wants to get away from too much sociability. I hope they finally get together.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

FYI lucy you are not in charge here.



Lukelucy said:


> Solowey, I started this thread and YOU are invited here by me. The others should go. You are VERY welcome here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very judgmental solo. So low.



soloweygirl said:


> That's just the problem you all are part of a pack. All you do is play follow the leader, from the "fun" words you use, to your avatar changes, to your nasty comments and the way you all gang up on one person at a time. That is pack mentality. So, go ahead and have your fun. You are fooling no one but yourself.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, I have heard that too. I don't care who they are if they are trying to claim exempt status and they are not entitled to it they shouldn't have it. Abuse is abuse no matter who is doing it. I think the Citizens United ruling by the Supreme Court is a blatant travesty and certainly needs to be overturned. Considering corporations citizens? I think not. Some members of the Court have been far too cozy with the GOP. Talk about hiding money to finance political elections, this is the granddaddy of them all. I didn't here any on the right complain about this decision. Did anyone else?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder how many new Supreme Court Justices will be appointed for life to the Supreme Court in the next three years.



alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I find it interesting that folks here are called a pack, but much the same goes on at D&P and Ravelry.


damemary said:


> Very judgmental solo. So low.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I find it interesting that folks here are called a pack, but much the same goes on at D&P and Ravelry.


What happens on Ravelry?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know you know the answer to that facetious question.



lovethelake said:


> What happens on Ravelry?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Fellow Stooges I ended my Bazinga and am fresh again. Row, row, row the Boat.....................


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I hope you have a nice day Lukelucy and you too Solowey.


Cheeky Blighter
looking forward to seeing your latest creation here.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This was charity knitting done by my knitting group for my homeless guys.


alcameron
Congratulations. What a nice thing to do.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Complete discussions are being released. It appears that Issa was selecting quotes out of context and just quotes reflecting poorly on the opposition. I'm (NOT) shocked. More to come.


damemary
ISSA: The leopard does not change its spots. A very checkered past followed by sheer evil. To be continued and juicy for sure. His fall will be very OUCHY.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I find it interesting that folks here are called a pack, but much the same goes on at D&P and Ravelry.


SeattleSoul
I take a pack of Stooges any day over a pack of XXXXXXXX


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I wonder how many new Supreme Court Justices will be appointed for life to the Supreme Court in the next three years.


damemary
and if not in three than in our following 8.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> What happens on Ravelry?


This:



lovethelake said:


> Just proves my point. Cicadas are like many libs. Loud, creepy, have no flight plan, annoying,and have no purpose other than to make noise and breed. The one difference is that the cicadas act their age (17), where some libs have the emotional maturity of a 13 year old male.





lovethelake said:


> Most were on Sunday. It was okay until the evil ones joined later on in the afternoon. Then it just got plain nasty, as usual. Not surprised.
> 
> They can be just plain evil and spiteful





bonf3 said:


> Whats wrong with them? Never mind - it would take too long.





thumper said:


> I havent looked in ages. Those on the liberal side never change and are the nastiest, vilest people Ive ever met. It amazes me that so many of them view Ingried as their role model. Shes one of the most pompous asses Ive ever encountered. Bratty Patty lives up to her name and then some. The dame is another pompous jerk. Im surprised any of them have spouses and kids. I wouldnt want to be around any of them for any length of time. Yuck!
> 
> Rant over





Cherf said:


> From what I read way long ago, if I remember correctly, one or two are single moms (no surprise to me) and one of the most vocal mouths has no relationship with her own son; son wont even speak to his Mom. One never fit in until proven wrong and then the Libs picked her up instead of letting her fall and made her one of them, for at least two hours, I think!
> The German was not liked by the Libs until she began siding with them. She used to write (correction: always wrote) the most stupid statements never saying anything nor offering any ideas or facts of beliefs (only one-liners or statements); never mastered the English language nor sentence structure, grammar or punctuation.
> I do not miss wasting my time reading their stupidity.





lovethelake said:


> Any greasy cicadas around? Saw that eating insects is in vogue now.





bonf3 said:


> They even invaded the Nice Place over there (this is the Happy Place) and started an argument about religion. At least two pages of junk.





bonf3 said:


> I prefer mine with a dusting of cinnamon and sugar.
> 
> BLECH





lovethelake said:


> Just glad it is gone
> Can you imagine what lonely lives they have if all they have to do during the day is irritate people?
> 
> Well you have to admit that they are true to form


Next question?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Fellow Stooges
any news from your european Friends about the First Family's visit? You world travelers always seem to get it first hand.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> looking forward to seeing your latest creation here.


I will do my best not to disappoint, Huck. I see you have another one of your darling dolls on display in such a nice outfit made by you I am sure.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Next question?

FreedomFries


Freedom - You really captured their essence so well and it certainly is not flattering to them. It's them describing themselves and that is what is so amazing. They only fool themselves and no one else. 
With the latest melt downs they have displayed they probably are feeling a little paranoid but that is their problem and as you say to the person making the inquiry, next question?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Next question?
> 
> FreedomFries
> 
> ...


Really shocking. I've said it before and I'll say it again: what would the righties' spouses/children/co-workers/ministers think if they could read such comments?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Fellow Stooges I ended my Bazinga and am fresh again. Row, row, row the Boat.....................


A friend of mine's little sister sang this:
Row, row, row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily. merrily, merrily
Now your your boat is clean


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Here's a link covering President Obama's trip to Ireland as reported by the BBC. It all went very well and was a huge success. The Irish love the President and his Family. Will have to post a link for Germany too but it sounds from all reports he is very well liked there too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22889607 - 195k -


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Next question?


They seem to allow a lot more explicit language on Ravelry than is allowed, or should I say, "tolerated" here.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really shocking. I've said it before and I'll say it again: what would the righties' spouses/children/co-workers/ministers think if they could read such comments?


Hard to say. The link is here: http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/denim-pearls-and-pradas/2547624/276-300#282

Just to make it clear that I've invented nothing. If anything, I've spared you the majority of the pages and pages of garbage.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> A friend of mine's little sister sang this:
> Row, row, row your boat
> Gently down the stream
> Merrily, merrily. merrily, merrily
> Now your your boat is clean


Love the lyrics, Seattle. Kids do say the darndest things and also the sweetest.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Hard to say. The link is here: http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/denim-pearls-and-pradas/2547624/276-300#282
> 
> Just to make it clear that I've invented nothing.


Thanks for the link, FF. Very interesting!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Hard to say. The link is here: http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/denim-pearls-and-pradas/2547624/276-300#282
> 
> Just to make it clear that I've invented nothing.


Not that I would ever doubt you Freedom but for any who would try to besmirch your name I am glad you provided a link. It certainly reflects what they are all about and it is not a pretty picture.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Hard to say. The link is here: http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/denim-pearls-and-pradas/2547624/276-300#282
> 
> Just to make it clear that I've invented nothing. If anything, I've spared you the majority of the pages and pages of garbage.


I didn't think you invented anything. I figured you edited out the worst of the stuff you found before quoting any of the Ravelry messages here.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I didn't think you invented anything. I figured you edited out the worst of the stuff you found before quoting any of the Ravelry messages here.


I think it's so funny how they think we're the nasty ones! There's plenty of trash coming from the other side. Of course, we already knew that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really shocking. I've said it before and I'll say it again: what would the righties' spouses/children/co-workers/ministers think if they could read such comments?


The righties spend their time talking in an obscure place just so their spouses/children/co-workers/ministers won't ever find out about what they've said. Instead of safety in numbers, they practice saftety in secrecy.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here's a link covering President Obama's trip to Ireland as reported by the BBC. It all went very well and was a huge success. The Irish love the President and his Family. Will have to post a link for Germany too but it sounds from all reports he is very well liked there too.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22889607 - 195k -


Seems so! Really makes me proud to see Obama, our first African-American President, up there addressing the crowds. It's very heartening to realize that this country has made significant progress in the area of race relations. No way could this have been possible even ten years ago.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> The righties spend their time talking in an obscure place just so their spouses/children/co-workers/ministers won't ever find out about what they've said. Instead of safety in numbers, they practice saftety in secrecy.


Yes, it's no wonder one of them went into a frenzy when her two worlds collided. Those in her inner circle would go into shock if they ever bumbled onto the site and got an eye full.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I didn't think you invented anything. I figured you edited out the worst of the stuff you found before quoting any of the Ravelry messages here.


Thank you.

And I hope you will indulge me and believe me when I say that I have the utmost respect for the note you posted to Patty last night? We've all posted things we later regretted. We've had our differences but I knew you were better than that. I'm so glad that you had the courage to prove it to be true. No sarcasm, no sting, just respect. God bless you.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it's no wonder one of them went into a frenzy when her two worlds collided. Those in her inner circle would go into shock if they ever bumbled onto the site and got an eye full.


Exactly. It's already happened. I know people accuse me of a million different agendas, but the main thing is that I've just gotten sick of the hypocrisy. You ladies can act as you think best. I'm not urging anything. Whatever you do, though, you have the right to know the score. As do I, when I deal with her in real life.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you.
> 
> And I hope you will indulge me and believe me when I say that I have the utmost respect for the note you posted to Patty last night? We've all posted things we later regretted. We've had our differences but I knew you were better than that. I'm so glad that you had the courage to prove it to be true. No sarcasm, no sting, just respect. God bless you.


Thanks, FF. I bet you and I can get along better now, too.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks, FF. I bet you and I can get along better now, too.


I hope so. I really, really do.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you.
> 
> And I hope you will indulge me and believe me when I say that I have the utmost respect for the note you posted to Patty last night? We've all posted things we later regretted. We've had our differences but I knew you were better than that. I'm so glad that you had the courage to prove it to be true. No sarcasm, no sting, just respect. God bless you.


I noticed that as well. SS and I have our differences, but it takes a person with a really good heart to admit that she may have spoken in haste.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I noticed that as well. SS and I have our differences, but it takes a person with a really good heart to admit that she may have spoken in haste.


Courage, for starters. Credit where it's due.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Exactly. It's already happened. I know people accuse me of a million different agendas, but the main thing is that I've just gotten sick of the hypocrisy. You ladies can act as you think best. I'm not urging anything. Whatever you do, though, you have the right to know the score. As do I, when I deal with her in real life.


I think I put several of the religious ladies on D&P into a tizzy by exposing my approach to Christianity and the Bible. They are sooooo literal about that stuff...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think I put several of the religious ladies on D&P into a tizzy by exposing my approach to Christianity and the Bible. They are sooooo literal about that stuff...


You, devil, you!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Exactly. It's already happened. I know people accuse me of a million different agendas, but the main thing is that I've just gotten sick of the hypocrisy. You ladies can act as you think best. I'm not urging anything. Whatever you do, though, you have the right to know the score. As do I, when I deal with her in real life.


I know! With so many people on the site it's probably no surprise that members occasionally inhabit the same world--but it's amazing to be made aware of it in such a dramatic fashion.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/irs-scandal-washington_n_3460904.html

I think the IRS "scandal" is finally going away and I hope Darrell Issa goes with it. He was furious when Cummings released the entire interview transcript.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know! With so many people on the site it's probably no surprise that members occasionally inhabit the same world--but it's amazing to be made aware of it in such a dramatic fashion.


The funny thing is that it's not a coincidence. She's the one who told me about Rav/KP and her handle. I think she expected me to join her posse. I just couldn't, though. How could any thinking person go along with that garbage?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You, devil, you!


Well, I do have a bit of the old devil in me. Helps me keep things in perspective...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/irs-scandal-washington_n_3460904.html
> 
> I think the IRS "scandal" is finally going away and I hope Darrell Issa goes with it. He was furious when Cummings released the entire interview transcript.


Frankly I thought he'd melt away when Benghazi became on non-issue. Seems to be on permanent assignment as pseudo scandal monger/investigator...like an incompetent bloodhound sniffing and snorting, actually trying to catch the scent and never quite succeeding.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Well, I do have a bit of the old devil in me. Helps me keep things in perspective...


I will have to remember that one, Seattle for future reference. It's like the scales of justice keeping things in balance. How would we know what is good if we haven't seen evil.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> The funny thing is that it's not a coincidence. She's the one who told me about Rav/KP and her handle. I think she expected me to join her posse. I just couldn't, though. How could any thinking person go along with that garbage?


I have no idea, but I think the conservatives sometimes don't realize how offensive their words sound outside the crazy house atmosphere of this thread. I've seen the nastiness spill over into other threads, and other KP members are often shocked and appalled.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I thought he'd melt away when Benghazi became on non-issue. Seems to be on permanent assignment as pseudo scandal monger/investigator...like an incompetent bloodhound sniffing and snorting, actually trying to catch the scent and never quite succeeding.


I guess snorting is a rightie trait??


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> A friend of mine's little sister sang this:
> Row, row, row your boat
> Gently down the stream
> Merrily, merrily. merrily, merrily
> Now your your boat is clean


Seattle Soul
I like that. Thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I will do my best not to disappoint, Huck. I see you have another one of your darling dolls on display in such a nice outfit made by you I am sure.


Cheeky Blighter
Thank you. Proud to say yes I knitted that and she has many outfits. Always hard to choose which one to put on.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess snorting is a rightie trait??


I forgot about that--very true! :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems so! Really makes me proud to see Obama, our first African-American President, up there addressing the crowds. It's very heartening to realize that this country has made significant progress in the area of race relations. No way could this have been possible even ten years ago.


susanmos2000
Germany took a poll re. the President and 96% like him with only 4% not. Can't get better than that and the First Lady and the children are off the charts. How lucky we are.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you.
> 
> And I hope you will indulge me and believe me when I say that I have the utmost respect for the note you posted to Patty last night? We've all posted things we later regretted. We've had our differences but I knew you were better than that. I'm so glad that you had the courage to prove it to be true. No sarcasm, no sting, just respect. God bless you.


FreedomFries
I so agree with you. That was a very nice gesture. And I also agree that everyone of us has stepped into it at times and were not big enough to acknowledge it. My admiration SeattleSoul.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> I hope so. I really, really do.


SeattleSoul
FreedomFries
I KNOW you can and know that you won't proof me wrong. Huck.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Not that I would ever doubt you Freedom but for any who would try to besmirch your name I am glad you provided a link. It certainly reflects what they are all about and it is not a pretty picture.


CheekyBlighter
FreedomFries
She who has most dreck on the stick likes to hurl it. Watch out, she is in constant motion trying to aim and keeps failing miserably. A perfect record of failed landings. Got to love it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Germany took a poll re. the President and 96% like him with only 4% not. Can't get better than that and the First Lady and the children are off the charts. How lucky we are.


Huck I posted a link to the BBC a page or two back on the Obama visit to Northern Ireland and they got rave reviews there as well. I'm not surprised. They are wonderful ambassadors for us where ever they go.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck I posted a link to the BBC a page or two back on the Obama visit to Northern Ireland and they got rave reviews there as well. I'm not surprised. They are wonderful ambassadors for us where ever they go.


They truly are. I've heard the righties say that Obama and his family are a shame and a disgrace to this country. How sad that one President, whatever they think of his policies, can for them completely nullify our country's great history and accomplishments. It's kind of like being ashamed of one's parents--really a sad state of mind.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Freedom Fries for providing the quotes from the kind Christian ladies.


FreedomFries said:


> Next question?


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thank you Freedom Fries for providing the quotes from the kind Christian ladies.


This has been going on consistently since last October. It's all there on that site, in various "Prada" threads. I only provided you some from the past day or so. The definition of two-faced, hypocritical and weak. Anything but Christian.

If you don't want to wade through the reams and reams of garbage, search on "Dark Side," KP, or the initials of your usernames.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or they try to hide.



SeattleSoul said:


> The righties spend their time talking in an obscure place just so their spouses/children/co-workers/ministers won't ever find out about what they've said. Instead of safety in numbers, they practice saftety in secrecy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems so! Really makes me proud to see Obama, our first African-American President, up there addressing the crowds. It's very heartening to realize that this country has made significant progress in the area of race relations. No way could this have been possible even ten years ago.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Just to inform copying and pasting quotes from Ravelry to here is a copyright violation according to the person I spoke to at Ravelry and a violation of their terms of service. I was asked to send proof to TPTB, which I did, and am waiting for a response. I am informing you of this, so that you may chose to stop, or continue. It is totally your choice.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Seattle Soul, Freedom Fries just reminded me of something I meant to do last night. Your apology to Patty was powerful. I intend to remember next time I find myself saying the wrong thing. Thank you. I'm proud to know you.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Just to inform copying and pasting quotes from Ravelry to here is a copyright violation according to the person I spoke to at Ravelry and a violation of their terms of service. I was asked to send proof to TPTB, which I did, and am waiting for a response. I am informing you of this, so that you may chose to stop, or continue. It is totally your choice.


And you think that they'll appreciate their site being used as a base for undermining a colleague's business? Good luck with that. Your own postings are nothing to be proud of.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the score!



FreedomFries said:


> Exactly. It's already happened. I know people accuse me of a million different agendas, but the main thing is that I've just gotten sick of the hypocrisy. You ladies can act as you think best. I'm not urging anything. Whatever you do, though, you have the right to know the score. As do I, when I deal with her in real life.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's a free country. We are entitled to our own interpretations. Have a tizzy if you like.



SeattleSoul said:


> I think I put several of the religious ladies on D&P into a tizzy by exposing my approach to Christianity and the Bible. They are sooooo literal about that stuff...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just to inform copying and pasting quotes from Ravelry to here is a copyright violation according to the person I spoke to at Ravelry and a violation of their terms of service. I was asked to send proof to TPTB, which I did, and am waiting for a response. I am informing you of this, so that you may chose to stop, or continue. It is totally your choice.


Why on earth do you care? Do you find the comments too mean or offensive to tolerate?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was dubious from the beginning of the many scandals.....seemed orchestrated for political purposes...and it seems to be shaking out this way.

Next question?



alcameron said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/irs-scandal-washington_n_3460904.html
> 
> I think the IRS "scandal" is finally going away and I hope Darrell Issa goes with it. He was furious when Cummings released the entire interview transcript.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck I posted a link to the BBC a page or two back on the Obama visit to Northern Ireland and they got rave reviews there as well. I'm not surprised. They are wonderful ambassadors for us where ever they go.


Cheeky Blighter
Thank You. We have been surfing foreign News and found the same information from anywhere the President and his Family went. Only one British very right wing reporter was negative. We are well represented by our First Family.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think your assessment is correct. They expect everyone to agree with them...particularly in person. I'm so pleased you are a thinking person. It is truly a privilege to know you.



FreedomFries said:


> The funny thing is that it's not a coincidence. She's the one who told me about Rav/KP and her handle. I think she expected me to join her posse. I just couldn't, though. How could any thinking person go along with that garbage?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why on earth do you care? Do you find the comments too mean or offensive to tolerate?


lovethelake
What worries you so much? Said something you should not have? Sounds like it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could he be sniffing the wrong end?



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I thought he'd melt away when Benghazi became on non-issue. Seems to be on permanent assignment as pseudo scandal monger/investigator...like an incompetent bloodhound sniffing and snorting, actually trying to catch the scent and never quite succeeding.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Truer words were never spoken.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I will have to remember that one, Seattle for future reference. It's like the scales of justice keeping things in balance. How would we know what is good if we haven't seen evil.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Could he be sniffing the wrong end?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is a tactic to attempt hiding. I don't think this is the purpose of copyright law, but the lawyers can sort it out. The horse is out of the barn dear.



lovethelake said:


> Just to inform copying and pasting quotes from Ravelry to here is a copyright violation according to the person I spoke to at Ravelry and a violation of their terms of service. I was asked to send proof to TPTB, which I did, and am waiting for a response. I am informing you of this, so that you may chose to stop, or continue. It is totally your choice.


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> Thank you.
> 
> And I hope you will indulge me and believe me when I say that I have the utmost respect for the note you posted to Patty last night? We've all posted things we later regretted. We've had our differences but I knew you were better than that. I'm so glad that you had the courage to prove it to be true. No sarcasm, no sting, just respect. God bless you.


The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering and rhyming....sad, sad.>>>



Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I just finished reading a few pages of FF. What kind of hatred causes the criticism of the looks, clothing choices, children's outfits, etc. of the president's family? Would that be Christian hatred? A "vessel of Jesus" talks like that?
Rationalizing one's behavior, I guess. Holier than thou. I can't understand how one justifies talking the way they do while criticizing others of us for not being Christian. Aargh!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> This is a tactic to attempt hiding. I don't think this is the purpose of copyright law, but the lawyers can sort it out. The horse is out of the barn dear.


I'm sure the rules will determine what'll be done. Quite frankly, I don't understand why there would be any restrictions because anyone can go there and read what's posted, right?


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


You haven't been reading carefully, have you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You can always stay here with us, Freedom.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm sure the rules will determine what'll be done. Quite frankly, I don't understand why there would be any restrictions because anyone can go there and read what's posted, right?


I'm trusting the owners to use common sense. Regardless, it's worth it to have the truth out there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My sister's family is in Germany and they report that they have been very proud of President Obama and the First Family. Although extreme heat has caused medical security persons to warn crowds of the danger, enthusiasm is high everywhere. She also reports that it is very wise of President Obama to use Ireland as an example of unity and peace after many of years of strife.



Huckleberry said:


> Fellow Stooges
> any news from your european Friends about the First Family's visit? You world travelers always seem to get it first hand.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just finished reading a few pages of FF. What kind of hatred causes the criticism of the looks, clothing choices, children's outfits, etc. of the president's family? Would that be Christian hatred? A "vessel of Jesus" talks like that?
> Rationalizing one's behavior, I guess. Holier than thou. I can't understand how one justifies talking the way they do while criticizing others of us for not being Christian. Aargh!


Saw those too--those who attack children are beneath contempt.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I just finished reading a few pages of FF. What kind of hatred causes the criticism of the looks, clothing choices, children's outfits, etc. of the president's family? Would that be Christian hatred? A "vessel of Jesus" talks like that?
> Rationalizing one's behavior, I guess. Holier than thou. I can't understand how one justifies talking the way they do while criticizing others of us for not being Christian. Aargh!


alcameron
These folks hang around old folks only and have no clue what the young wear these days and have interest in. Fact is that the fashion industry is having a hayday since this young First Family entered the White House. They can't produce copies of what they wear fast enough. Wonderful benefits for those who have jobs because of it but then jobs is not something the Republicans are interested in as we are seeing every day. They are only interested in scandal and therefore try to make what our First Lady and her children wear just an other scandal. I am glad that these folks expose their ill behavior continuously. It will wake up those who until now have not participated in giving them a close look. The picture is a wake-up call.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga for now.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Saw those too--those who attack children are beneath contempt.


susanmos2000
Despicable behavior is what it is and then coming from folks who call themselves Christians. No wonder in some parts of the world their numbers are dwindling rapidly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


Meerkat
You have to be invited to join Ravelry? What have you been smoking or who fed you that dose of stuff?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I'm sure the rules will determine what'll be done. Quite frankly, I don't understand why there would be any restrictions because anyone can go there and read what's posted, right?


alcameron
Open for all to read.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> You haven't been reading carefully, have you?


FreedomFries
reading and carefully is not what they do, bully is their primary intention. Just look how they behaved when I joined. Anyone coming new on the site is suspect and being aimed at with poisoned arrows UNLESS they immediately agree with them.
That is all they know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> I'm trusting the owners to use common sense. Regardless, it's worth it to have the truth out there.


FreedomFries
Nothing to worry about, the truth is on your side and I for one am with you.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry, I really enjoyed your posts on D&P. I think they helped completely ruin my reputation. Earlier I was told that Damemary and I will be making a downward slide after we die. KPG thought she was trying to save my soul...

FF, as you probably already know, they're after your blood on D&P. Those good Christian ladies turned into angry hornets so fast I could hardly believe it. Very nasty hornets.

All in all, aside from what both of you posted on D&P, I enjoyed singing my own little swan song. If I start laughing now I'll never stop. Bazinga, indeed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Huckleberry, I really enjoyed your posts on D&P. I think they helped completely ruin my reputation. Earlier I was told that Damemary and I will be making a downward slide after we die. KPG thought she was trying to save my soul...
> 
> FF, as you probably already know, they're after your blood on D&P. Those good Christian ladies turned into angry hornets so fast I could hardly believe it. Very nasty hornets.
> 
> All in all, aside from what both of you posted on D&P, I enjoyed singing my own little swan song. If I start laughing now I'll never stop. Bazinga, indeed.


SeattleSoul
A hearty embrace to you. Huck.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

All these compliments, folks, just might go to my head and make me dizzy (or is that dizzier?) I appreciate all you said and especially hope BrattyPatty does, too, and that I'll hear from her sometime soon.

Patty, I think I understand just how far out of line I was with you and I hope we'll be able to go forward on a positive footing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too, and I bet more. We stand together. The rest of them can row their boat until the bottom's clean.



Huckleberry said:


> FreedomFries
> Nothing to worry about, the truth is on your side and I for one am with you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The best part for me is the fact that I feel we are fighting the good fight.

Standing up for truth, compassion and friendship, never letting weak lies stand without answer.

Answered sometimes with intelligence ; sometimes with passion; oftimes with humor.

Bazinga.



SeattleSoul said:


> Huckleberry, I really enjoyed your posts on D&P. I think they helped completely ruin my reputation. Earlier I was told that Damemary and I will be making a downward slide after we die. KPG thought she was trying to save my soul...
> 
> FF, as you probably already know, they're after your blood on D&P. Those good Christian ladies turned into angry hornets so fast I could hardly believe it. Very nasty hornets.
> 
> All in all, aside from what both of you posted on D&P, I enjoyed singing my own little swan song. If I start laughing now I'll never stop. Bazinga, indeed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SS, I'm dizzy too. Onward.

I bet Patty is still busy. She'll be back, and I'm sure you will hear from her.

Bazinga. Sleep well. Dream of pies. I will.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> The best part for me is the fact that I feel we are fighting the good fight.
> 
> Standing up for truth, compassion and friendship, never letting weak lies stand without answer.
> 
> ...


Three thumbs up, dame :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just to inform copying and pasting quotes from Ravelry to here is a copyright violation according to the person I spoke to at Ravelry and a violation of their terms of service. I was asked to send proof to TPTB, which I did, and am waiting for a response. I am informing you of this, so that you may chose to stop, or continue. It is totally your choice.


Unless a person gets & buys a copyright on their post, there is no copyright infringement. It is a public forum and anything can be copied and pasted with the exception of patterns posted there that are copyrighted.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What's your problem Alcameron. You claim to follow Christian beliefs, are quick to tell me how to act like a good Christian, why cannot you post an appropriate Chapter and Verse. Not like you, you always have a lie or insult for me.


Being a good Christian is much more than quoting chapter and verse.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> It's good to see you're ready to return to S&O. I apologize for using your personal tragedy with your BIL to hurt you. For a long time it seemed like we just couldn't get along and the insults we exchanged got pretty unpleasant. However, that doesn't mean I should have brought something so personal into the mix. Again, I apologize, and I hope we can engage in constructive discussions from now on.


I acept your apology, SS. Thank You.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


Just like this forum is open, so is the Ravelry forum. If I am a member of ravelry then yes, it is my business. After the things that I have read there months ago, I have to say that is a forum I would not want to belong to.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't concern yourself, as _God_ won't be giving you the opportunity to feel at home with the Believers since you are not one.


How arrogant of you to speak for God! You are way out of your league there, mister!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Welcome back, Patty! We've missed you!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I acept your apology, SS. Thank You.


BrattyPatty
You are a Jewel. 
Good to see you back.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Only to you, lukelucy. It's just such a fun word to say!


Oh, love your avatar!!!!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Meerkat
> You have to be invited to join Ravelry? What have you been smoking or who fed you that dose of stuff?


No, just that particular group. And they did a sweeping ban of all members who belong to certain groups. Anyone can still read what they write - just not comment.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Read in the news today that Exodus International, an "ex-gay" reparation group is closing it's doors. The originator of the organization admitted that there is no cure for homosexuality and he apologized for the damage he may have done to people while trying to "save" them. Pretty interesting.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Read in the news today that Exodus International, an "ex-gay" reparation group is closing it's doors. The originator of the organization admitted that there is no cure for homosexuality and he apologize for the damage he may have done to people while trying to "save" them. Pretty interesting.


Just looked it up--you're right, they've pretty much done a complete about face. Wonder what made them change their minds--and where they found the courage to admit that they were wrong?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Read in the news today that Exodus International, an "ex-gay" reparation group is closing it's doors. The originator of the organization admitted that there is no cure for homosexuality and he apologize for the damage he may have done to people while trying to "save" them. Pretty interesting.


GWIPver
A healing mind. Are the Bachmanns following suit? I hope so, they have ripped off enough people.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> GWIPver
> A healing mind. Are the Bachmanns following suit? I hope so, they have ripped off enough people.


I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, Huck!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Read in the news today that Exodus International, an "ex-gay" reparation group is closing it's doors. The originator of the organization admitted that there is no cure for homosexuality and he apologized for the damage he may have done to people while trying to "save" them. Pretty interesting.


This is from "The Christian Post: [urlhttp://www.christianpost.com/news/exodus-international-to-shut-down-ministry-president-apologizes-to-gay-community-98407/[/url]
Exodus International to Shut Down; Ministry President Apologizes to Gay Community
By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
June 20, 2013|9:25 am
Exodus International, the 37-year-old ministry devoted to helping people deal with unwanted same-sex attraction, is to be shut down.The Exodus board of directors unanimously voted to shut down the ministry after a year of prayer and dialogue, a press release states. Local groups that were affiliated with the ministry will continue, though they will no longer be under the umbrella of Exodus.

"We're not negating the ways God used Exodus to positively affect thousands of people, but a new generation of Christians is looking for change  and they want to be heard," Exodus board member Tony Moore said in a statement.

"Exodus is an institution in the conservative Christian world, but we've ceased to be a living, breathing organism," said Alan Chambers, the ministry's president, in a statement. "For quite some time we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical."

Chambers added: "From a Judeo-Christian perspective, gay, straight or otherwise, we're all prodigal sons and daughters. Exodus International is the prodigal's older brother, trying to impose its will on God's promises, and make judgments on who's worthy of His Kingdom. God is calling us to be the Father  to welcome everyone, to love unhindered."

The announcement was made just one day after Chambers issued an apology to the gay community for the "trauma" he and the organization might have caused them.

"I have heard many firsthand stories from people called ex-gay survivors," wrote Chambers. "Stories of people who went to Exodus affiliated ministries or ministers for help only to experience more trauma. I have heard stories of shame, sexual misconduct, and false hope. In every case that has been brought to my attention, there has been swift action resulting in the removal of these leaders and/or their organizations. But rarely was there an apology or a public acknowledgement by me."

Exodus formerly promoted the idea that same-sex attraction can be reduced or eliminated through reparative therapy, a type of therapy that involves prayer and counseling. For years, however, many have decried reparative therapy as harmful, and last year Exodus disassociated itself with the practice in order to focus on a discipleship model of ministry.

The apology Chambers posted to the Exodus website is a more thorough version of an apology he will deliver tonight on an episode of "Our America with Lisa Ling." The special report, titled "God & Gays," will show Chambers deliver his apology to several people who feel they were harmed by their reparative therapy experiences. In a video clip from the episode, one person is even shown telling Chambers to shut Exodus down.

The 38th annual Exodus Freedom conference, going on now at Concordia University Irvine in California, will be the ministry's last.

"I cannot apologize for my deeply held biblical beliefs about the boundaries I see in scripture surrounding sex, but I will exercise my beliefs with great care and respect for those who do not share them," Chambers said in his apology. "I cannot apologize for my beliefs about marriage. But I do not have any desire to fight you on your beliefs or the rights that you seek. My beliefs about these things will never again interfere with God's command to love my neighbor as I love myself."

While the board of directors decided to close down one ministry, it also unanimously voted to start a new one.

"This is a new season of ministry, to a new generation," said Chambers. "Our goals are to reduce fear (reducefear.org), and come alongside churches to become safe, welcoming, and mutually transforming communities."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> This is from "The Christian Post: [urlhttp://www.christianpost.com/news/exodus-international-to-shut-down-ministry-president-apologizes-to-gay-community-98407/[/url]
> Exodus International to Shut Down; Ministry President Apologizes to Gay Community
> By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
> June 20, 2013|9:25 am
> ...


AMEN
Thank you, SS. Maybe this should be posted on another thread. Or are they reading this thread?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I haven't checked out whether Exodus International is being discussed anywhere else. I'll post it on D&P, and if you find any other discussions, please feel free to post it there.


alcameron said:


> AMEN
> Thank you, SS. Maybe this should be posted on another thread. Or are they reading this thread?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul
your new avatar shows energy. Lovely to see.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> This is a tactic to attempt hiding. I don't think this is the purpose of copyright law, but the lawyers can sort it out. The horse is out of the barn dear.


I wonder what lakelady said that she is so worried about being seen by Ravelry or maybe people she knows that would think a lot differently about her if they saw her posts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


I am on Ravelry also and have been for many years as have some of the other Ladies on the left. What is it with you righties thinking that you own everything and that people are interested in you? Jealous, of what? We don't want anything to do with your foolishness here and only try to engage you in the hopes of having a meaningful discussion which we have managed occasionally. Why would we want to have anything to do with you on Ravelry?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm sure the rules will determine what'll be done. Quite frankly, I don't understand why there would be any restrictions because anyone can go there and read what's posted, right?


I would think the only thing Ravelry may even be concerned about is theft of someone's patterns or ideas without paying for it or taking it and copying it and then handing it out. Also some patterns say you can make the item for yourself but not make it and sell it. What anyone says there on the threads is not of concern to them. They are quite liberal in what they allow people to post. I think lakelady is just blowing smoke. FF has her number and she knows it. She has been exposed for the fraud she is.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Huckleberry, I really enjoyed your posts on D&P. I think they helped completely ruin my reputation. Earlier I was told that Damemary and I will be making a downward slide after we die. KPG thought she was trying to save my soul...
> 
> FF, as you probably already know, they're after your blood on D&P. Those good Christian ladies turned into angry hornets so fast I could hardly believe it. Very nasty hornets.
> 
> All in all, aside from what both of you posted on D&P, I enjoyed singing my own little swan song. If I start laughing now I'll never stop. Bazinga, indeed.


That's the truth, Seattle and remember laughter is the best medicine and the added bonus is the D&P ladies go nuts when anyone laughs or smiles. I guess Christianity isn't working too well for them. One would think if practiced properly it would bring that person great happiness and a smile. :-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh, love your avatar!!!!


Thanks, GW. It looks like my girl cat, Lilly. She is a tortoiseshell and very pretty.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm glad you like it, Huck. It's a picture of Aunt Molly Jackson. Here;s what the Encyclopedia of Kentucky has to say about her. The line from one of her songs I remember best is "I am a coal miner's wife, I'm sure I wish you well, let's sink this capitialistic system in the darkest pits of Hell"

"During the 1930s, Mary Magdalene Garland Aunt Molly Jackson was a prominent activist in the struggle for the unionization of the Appalachian coal&#64257;elds. Her performances at labor rallies featured original protest songs closely modeled on traditional mountain music.

The daughter of miner, preacher, and union activist Oliver Perry Garland and Deborah Robinson Garland, Jack- son was born in Clay County, Kentucky, in September 1880. Her mother died of tuberculosis in 1886; eleven months later, her father married Elizabeth Lucas, with whom he had an additional eleven children, including union activists Sarah Ogan Gunning (19101983) and Jim Garland (19051978).

During the Great Depression, Aunt Molly Jackson presented speeches and performed songs such as I Am a Union Woman, Kentucky Miners Wife, and Dreadful Memories on behalf of the National Miners Union. In 1931 she met with a delegation sent by the National Committee for the Defense of Political Prisoners and subsequently traveled to New York City, soon appearing before an audience of twenty-one thousand people.

After spending the next &#64257;ve years traveling on behalf of the labor movement, Jackson and her third husband, Gustavos Stamos, moved to New York City in 1936. She died on August 31, 1960, in Sacramento, California. Jacksons political adaptation of folk songs coupled tradition and innovation, as revealed in her own de&#64257;nition of folk music: This is what a folk song really is: the folks com- poses their own songs about their own lives and their home folks that live around them.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm glad you like it, Huck. It's a picture of Aunt Molly Jackson. Here;s what the Encyclopedia of Kentucky has to say about her. The line from one of her songs I remember best is "I am a coal miner's wife, I'm sure I wish you well, let's sink this capitialistic system in the darkest pits of Hell"
> 
> "During the 1930s, Mary Magdalene Garland Aunt Molly Jackson was a prominent activist in the struggle for the unionization of the Appalachian coalﬁelds. Her performances at labor rallies featured original protest songs closely modeled on traditional mountain music.
> 
> ...


I guess we should be composing some songs about the ills in our generation. Is that on your bucket list, SS?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BTW, bazinga for now


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sometimes if you can't laugh you'll end up crying long and hard.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's the truth, Seattle and remember laughter is the best medicine and the added bonus is the D&P ladies go nuts when anyone laughs or smiles. I guess Christianity isn't working too well for them. One would think if practiced properly it would bring that person great happiness and a smile. :-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters. 
Can I hear an Amen?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bazinga! later Ladies.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul
Thank you for the Biography of your Avatar; very interesting and confirming the energy I saw.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters.
> Can I hear an Amen?


Cheeky Blighter
More then one A M E N for the results of all of your fine efforts. You really have your Heart in the right place. Hugs Huck


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I guess we should be composing some songs about the ills in our generation. Is that on your bucket list, SS?


Unfortunately, I have to say I don't have a bucket list yet. Writing some more poetry and taking as many train trips as possible will be on it, though. I'm sure there are people composing songs about the ills of our generation and we could find them somewhere and listen to them, but right now I don't want any downers around.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Very judgmental solo. So low.


Perhaps, yet so true.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really shocking. I've said it before and I'll say it again: what would the righties' spouses/children/co-workers/ministers think if they could read such comments?


I wonder what yours would say if they read your comments.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Exactly. It's already happened. I know people accuse me of a million different agendas, but the main thing is that I've just gotten sick of the hypocrisy. You ladies can act as you think best. I'm not urging anything. Whatever you do, though, you have the right to know the score. As do I, when I deal with her in real life.


Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


soloweygirl
Nosy aren't you!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Germany took a poll re. the President and 96% like him with only 4% not. Can't get better than that and the First Lady and the children are off the charts. How lucky we are.


Yes, how lucky we are that his popularity has plummeted 8 points since last month. His tour for adoration is a great boost for him. In 2008, 200,000 came to hear him speak, yesterday, barely 5,000. Wow, the numbers are staggering, aren't they? The weather is no excuse, if the people wanted to see him, they would be there. In 2008, the headlines would read that the people braved the highest temperatures in history to attend Obama's speech. Yesterday the attendance was low because of the high temperature. Get real.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I wonder what yours would say if they read your comments.


They have--I'm not always proud of my comments, and certainly not when I lose my temper and say things I later regret. But perhaps because I'm not trying to present a perfect Christian face to the world I'm don't feel that I have a "secret life" on this thread that has to remain hidden.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


Sure...so you and other interested parties can harass her with endless threats to telephone the cops. No dice...and in fact carrying out those threats wouldn't help anyone. If some here are worried about their ugly posts coming to the attention of friends and family members there's no better way to do it than to pester their local police with inane complaints and reports. The cops will laugh them out of the station...but family members and friends will flock to both sites just to see what all the fuss is about.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sure...so you and other interested parties can harass her with endless threats to telephone the cops. No dice...and in fact carrying out those threats wouldn't help anyone. If some here are worried about their ugly posts coming to the attention of friends and family members there's no better way to do it than to pester their local police with inane complaints and reports. The cops will laugh them out of the station...but family members and friends will flock to both sites just to see what all the fuss is about.


Hilarious. Neither I or my friends threatened to call the police, talk about paranoid. But wait, I did think she said a few days back "sue me". Cowards are not worth my time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Unfortunately, I have to say I don't have a bucket list yet. Writing some more poetry and taking as many train trips as possible will be on it, though. I'm sure there are people composing songs about the ills of our generation and we could find them somewhere and listen to them, but right now I don't want any downers around.


The worst stuff is the lyrics to some of the current rap stuff. Good grief! I forgot you're so young that you don't have a bucket list! Sorry.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

damemary said:


> Dear Seattle Soul, Freedom Fries just reminded me of something I meant to do last night. Your apology to Patty was powerful. I intend to remember next time I find myself saying the wrong thing. Thank you. I'm proud to know you.


It certainly was - I was so impressed with how she handled the situation. I applaud you, Seattle Soul!!!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters.
> Can I hear an Amen?


Amen, sister!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


FreedomFries
Please, don't, the mystery is so exiting.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters.
> Can I hear an Amen?


You certainly can -"AMEN, AMEN AMEN"! Was that loud enough? 
Also, the bio of "Aunt Molly" Jackson was fascinating!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I wonder what yours would say if they read your comments.


susanmos2000
I am quite sure that your life is an open book.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes, how lucky we are that his popularity has plummeted 8 points since last month. His tour for adoration is a great boost for him. In 2008, 200,000 came to hear him speak, yesterday, barely 5,000. Wow, the numbers are staggering, aren't they? The weather is no excuse, if the people wanted to see him, they would be there. In 2008, the headlines would read that the people braved the highest temperatures in history to attend Obama's speech. Yesterday the attendance was low because of the high temperature. Get real.


soloweygirl
Keep telling us what you don't know. 13,000 was the number. Relatively high since even dignitaries could not attend due to the
extremely unusual heat for Germany. Also travel was difficult because of other global warming related climate problems like worst floods in over 100 years in several parts of the country.
Try to educate you.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> Keep telling us what you don't know. 13,000 was the number. Relatively high since even dignitaries could not attend due to the
> extremely unusual heat for Germany. Also travel was difficult because of other global warming related climate problems like worst floods in over 100 years in several parts of the country.
> Try to educate you.


Obama is on the down slide. Just heard a report about him. Not made for the job. Hope his wife does not embarrass us again in Europe like the last time. She probably will.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN :!: :!: :-D  :thumbup: :thumbup: 


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters.Can I hear an Amen?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


Is that something like "enquiring minds want to know?" LOL


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes, how lucky we are that his popularity has plummeted 8 points since last month. His tour for adoration is a great boost for him. In 2008, 200,000 came to hear him speak, yesterday, barely 5,000. Wow, the numbers are staggering, aren't they? The weather is no excuse, if the people wanted to see him, they would be there. In 2008, the headlines would read that the people braved the highest temperatures in history to attend Obama's speech. Yesterday the attendance was low because of the high temperature. Get real.


She is being real. Her facts are correct. If the temps were high and the Pope was speaking, attendance would be low.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What is even more ridiculous is that the users are either ignorant or lying about the meaning of the word they use. The word comes from the show, "The Big Bang Theory" and it means fooled you. Good grief, they can't keep the modern urban vocabulary straight. No wonder their their thoughts don't make sense, they don't know the meaning of the words they use.


Bazinga was around way before the "Big Bang Theory". It was used by New Yorkers all the time as a phrase to mark the end of something, or "see you later" etc. It is a multi defined slang word.

By the way, your post was very rude.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is being real. Her facts are correct. If the temps were high and the Pope was speaking, attendance would be low.


BrattyPatty
Well speaking of the Pope, he had a different problem, his audience was meager because it rained Cats and Dogs; much easier to guard against that than boiling heat. Those present had umbrellas while others chose not to show up. He and his Attendees got soaked. He chose no cover for himself and them. His reason: Jesus never used an Umbrella either. A fine Shepherd he seems to be.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is on the down slide. Just heard a report about him. Not made for the job. Hope his wife does not embarrass us again in Europe like the last time. She probably will.


You could only hope to have the class and poise that the First Lady has. I think you are "hearing things" in general.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bazinga was around way before the "Big Bang Theory". It was used by New Yorkers all the time as a phrase to mark the end of something, or "see you later" etc. It is a multi defined slang word.
> 
> By the way, your post was very rude.


The word is used obsessively. Obsessive/compulsive disorder maybe?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You could only hope to have the class and poise that the First Lady has. I think you are "hearing things" in general.


I have more than she has.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Well speaking of the Pope, he had a different problem, his audience was meager because it rained Cats and Dogs; much easier to guard against that than boiling heat. Those present had umbrellas while others chose not to show up. He and his Attendees got soaked. He chose no cover for himself and them. His reason: Jesus never used an Umbrella either. A fine Shepherd he seems to be.


I find the remarks from the far right are just made up to slam the man that they don't want in the White House. I can't imagine sitting around and waiting for the next negative opinion from Rush, Glen, and Fox Noise.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The word is used obsessively. Obsessive/compulsive disorder maybe?


Really, LL? In your case, how does petty/nitpicking /brainless disorder sound?
Where is your idol KPG today? BTW you have a rather large brown spot on your nose. You might want to wipe it off.
BAZINGA!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have more than she has.


Prove it.
Your posts certainly don't (prove it, that is). Your hatred for the president has colored your view of anything to do with him or his family. I believe she is totally gracious in her role as the First Lady.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really, LL? In your case, how does petty/nitpicking /brainless disorder sound?
> Where is your idol KPG today? BTW you have a rather large brown spot on your nose. You might want to wipe it off.
> BAZINGA!


Yup. Obsessive/compulsive it is.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Prove it.
> Your posts certainly don't (prove it, that is). Your hatred for the president has colored your view of anything to do with him or his family. I believe she is totally gracious is her role as the First Lady.


She is absolutely not gracious. She oversteps her bounds. Does not know her limits. Needs an Emily Post book asap.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You could only hope to have the class and poise that the First Lady has. I think you are "hearing things" in general.


BrattyPatty
Our gracious First Lady and her children did no shopping - to the dismay of the Press - but visited very important historical sites, the Holocaust Museum for example. They used the short time they were there extremely educational. Representing us in the finest manner is such an easy task for President Obama and his Family. The Brits loved it when the First Lady a while back gave a tender touch to the Queen and so did the royal household. Times are changing thank goodness.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She is absolutely not gracious. She oversteps her bounds. Does not know her limits. Needs an Emily Post book asap.


Emily Post?? Get in this century.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I would like to know why it's OK for Supreme Court justices Scalia and Thomas to speak and/or participate in other ways in conservative fund-raisers. Does that sound like politicking to anyone? How can they be trusted to judge cases impartially? Does that constitute grounds for dismissal? Probably not, but it should.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Emily Post?? Get in this century.


alcameron
I have to chime in, Emily Post she cites? For heaven's sake this the 21st Century and we no longer wear long gloves to Dinner or the children curtsy to their elders. Most Kings and Queens have disappeared and "normal" people have taken their places. Many Royal Residences are now a Bed & Breakfast. Lovely places to spend a vacation.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know why it's OK for Supreme Court justices Scalia and Thomas to speak and/or participate in other ways in conservative fund-raisers. Does that sound like politicking to anyone? How can they be trusted to judge cases impartially? Does that constitute grounds for dismissal? Probably not, but it should.


alcameron
Yes, it should.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Emily Post?? Get in this century.


I am in this century. Where are you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She is absolutely not gracious. She oversteps her bounds. Does not know her limits. Needs an Emily Post book asap.


And just what limits might those be? Oversteps her bounds? She is the First Lady of the Leader of the Free World. 
LOL Emily Post. I threw that book out with my garter belt!
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And just what limits might those be? Oversteps her bounds? She is the First Lady of the Leader of the Free World.
> LOL Emily Post. I threw that book out with my garter belt!
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


No, it was not a warm gesture. It was a total breech of protocol. Aside from the Queen Mother (dead or not Michelle did it and it left an impression), Europeans generally are very mannerly and attend to protocol. Have experienced it many times. That is why Americans have such a bad rep there. Anyway, that is your view and it is WAY off base. She really made a huge mistake that was an embarrassment to all here, whether you know it or not. She lived up to the ugly American rep by doing that. Shame on her. I hope she does not embarrass our country again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


No she wasn't. Maybe only to the Obama haters. I recall Rush Limbaugh calling her "uppity" over this.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she wasn't. Maybe only to the Obama haters. I recall Rush Limbaugh calling her "uppity" over this.


She should have been an embarrassment to everyone. Wake up. Not just "Obama Haters". It happened.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, it was not a warm gesture. It was a total breech of protocol. Aside from the Queen Mother (dead or not Michelle did it and it left an impression), Europeans generally are very mannerly and attend to protocol. Have experienced it many times. That is why Americans have such a bad rep there. Anyway, that is your view and it is WAY off base. She really made a huge mistake that was an embarrassment to all here, whether you know it or not. She lived up to the ugly American rep by doing that. Shame on her. I hope she does not embarrass our country again.


Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She should have been an embarrassment to everyone. Wake up. Not just "Obama Haters". It happened.


Don't forget the classy bathing suit dress


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


As someone who lives in England, I will take your word for it, Anne!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


Trust me when I say she doesn't, Anne.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Trust me when I say she doesn't, Anne.


Thank you, Patty. I was starting to have serious doubts about my sanity.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She should have been an embarrassment to everyone. Wake up. Not just "Obama Haters". It happened.


Well, I wasn't a bit embarrassed. There are a ton of things going on in the US that should be a much bigger embarrassment---republicans trying to force women into transvaginal ultrasounds, the latest idiot trying to tell us that male fetuses pleasure themselves in utero because he witnessed their little hands between their legs, no participation in the House by Tea Baggers and right-wing representatives in actually passing any legislation, getting rid of programs to help the disadvantaged, jumping into wars----the list goes on. Why don't some of the important things embarrass you?

And the many many people living in poverty in this rich country?? Isn't that a little more embarrassing than the First Lady touching the queen??? Or wearing what you consider an ugly dress??


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Don't forget the classy bathing suit dress


I remember that dress well. She looked beautiful in it. She's buff and can carry a dress like that off better than most women.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


Geez, Anne, don't listen to these upright women. I was going to say something else, but I've promised myself to hold my tongue. (Fingers, really)


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I remember that dress well. She looked beautiful in it. She's buff and can carry a dress like that off better than most women.


I bet they're jealous because they have bat-wing arms.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Geez, Anne, don't listen to these upright women. I was going to say something else, but I've promised myself to hold my tongue. (Fingers, really)


Your self-retraint does you credit, Andrea, but flipping heck, those trivial things you listed are nothing to the heinous crime of touching our monarch. For goodness' sake, I'll warrant you're not even wearing gloves to type. Get some etiquette lessons and I might consider talking to you, you American peasant/upstart/colonial etc etc etc.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Don't forget the classy bathing suit dress


Right. MO needs a lesson how to act and how to dress.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Anti-nausea medication for my friend:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right. MO needs a lesson how to act and how to dress.


Why don't you write her a letter? I'm sure she'd rather listen to you than Ralph Lauren or Caroline Herrera or Guy Laroche or Sonia Rykiel.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Anti-nausea medication for my friend:


Those look good. I love choc chip cookies! Thanks for the photo! And I am a choc candy maker. Lots to say about that. So, our house has one-of-a-kind chocolate candy. My husband is lucky.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Those look good. I love choc chip cookies! Thanks for the photo! And I am a choc candy maker. Lots to say about that. So, our house has one-of-a-kind chocolate candy. My husband is lucky.


It's the best recipe ever. I make them all the time and give them away because my husband is diabetic. I do let him smell them and if he hasn't had too many carbs for the day, I give him half a cookie. They're pretty big. I don't make candy, but my neighbor makes nummy truffles.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It's the best recipe ever. I make them all the time and give them away because my husband is diabetic. I do let him smell them and if he hasn't had too many carbs for the day, I give him half a cookie. They're pretty big. I don't make candy, but my neighbor makes nummy truffles.


Alcameron,

Where do I find the recipe? I also like oatmeal raisin. Thank you for the photo. I love to cook.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Alcameron,
> 
> Where do I find the recipe? I also like oatmeal raisin. Thank you for the photo. I love to cook.


I think I got this from Cook's Illustrated. I'm not sure if I can put it on the forum because I don't remember if this is one of their free recipes. Check out their website and let me know.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Your self-retraint does you credit, Andrea, but flipping heck, those trivial things you listed are nothing to the heinous crime of touching our monarch. For goodness' sake, I'll warrant you're not even wearing gloves to type. Get some etiquette lessons and I might consider talking to you, you American peasant/upstart/colonial etc etc etc.


Just to let you know, I do understand sarcasm even if it's "British sarcasm" as opposed to "American sarcasm."


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think I got this from Cook's Illustrated. I'm not sure if I can put it on the forum because I don't remember if this is one of their free recipes. Check out their website and let me know.


Thank you. Cooks is very good. I bake their baking powder biscuits and they really are the best. Will look.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thank you. Cooks is very good. I bake their baking powder biscuits and they really are the best. Will look.


They have a good oatmeal raisin, too, but that's not my favorite.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Just to let you know, I do understand sarcasm even if it's "British sarcasm" as opposed to "American sarcasm."


Hyacinth doesn't do sarcasm, but she's gone now. Back to spewing my left-wing unpleasantness, class hatred and all that jazz.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> They have a good oatmeal raisin, too, but that's not my favorite.


I guess choc chip is at the top of the list. Do you like nuts in your cookie?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Hyacinth doesn't do sarcasm, but she's gone now. Back to spewing my left-wing unpleasantness, class hatred and all that jazz.


Oh I loved her, and the show As time Goes By. In fact I love most British T.V. shows. Wish we had such good ones over here.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Anti-nausea medication for my friend:


Oh thanks Al now I am drooling,I am so on a food kick today.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I guess choc chip is at the top of the list. Do you like nuts in your cookie?


I generally use toasted pecans, but because some people are allergic to nuts, I don't always put them in. Depends on the recipient.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh thanks Al now I am drooling,I am so on a food kick today.


Are you feeling OK now?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I generally use toasted pecans, but because some people are allergic to nuts, I don't always put them in. Depends on the recipient.


Toasted pecans would be great. I roast my own nuts for my candy making. Special recipe. My mother's family was a major distributor of choc candy and many other (toffee, candy canes, ribbon candy) during the depression. I learned that choc making is depression proof. People still buy chocolate during a depression. My mother's family ate and lived ok because of their business. That is how my father met my mother. Lots of history.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I loved her, and the show As time Goes By. In fact I love most British T.V. shows. Wish we had such good ones over here.


So did I love those shows (grammar went a bit wrong there). We get some terrible programmes here, both British and American, but you also have some gems I hate to miss. Too many to list here, but don't ever think you can't do good television,


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> So did I love those shows (grammar went a bit wrong there). We get some terrible programmes here, both British and American, but you also have some gems I hate to miss. Too many to list here, but don't ever think you can't do good television,


And I hate myself for watching some entertaining tripe.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Just walked my beasts. This is a little pond two blocks from my house. One of my dogs is stubborn and won't walk just anywhere. Today he wouldn't walk around the pond at all. We need a animal behaviorist. I've stood on the sidewalk with him for 10 minutes or more trying to make him walk where I want to go. He won't budge. I get mad, because I'm the human, and he's supposed to mind me! After 15 minutes I give up.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Just walked my beasts. This is a little pond two blocks from my house. One of my dogs is stubborn and won't walk just anywhere. Today he wouldn't walk around the pond at all. We need a animal behaviorist. I've stood on the sidewalk with him for 10 minutes or more trying to make him walk where I want to go. He won't budge. I get mad, because I'm the human, and he's supposed to mind me! After 15 minutes I give up.


Beautiful walk/pond. You are lucky. We have a beautiful walk, too, but not quite as nice as yours.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And I hate myself for watching some entertaining tripe.


Absolutely


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Are you feeling OK now?


yes that's how I know I am getting better food looks so good. Not the flu something worst. :thumbdown:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Just walked my beasts. This is a little pond two blocks from my house. One of my dogs is stubborn and won't walk just anywhere. Today he wouldn't walk around the pond at all. We need a animal behaviorist. I've stood on the sidewalk with him for 10 minutes or more trying to make him walk where I want to go. He won't budge. I get mad, because I'm the human, and he's supposed to mind me! After 15 minutes I give up.


Oh Al that is so lovely and peaceful looking.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yes that's how I know I am getting better food looks so good. Not the flu something worst. :thumbdown:


Well, at least you're on the mend. 
Time for me to get busy upstairs. We're having company for a week after the 4th, so I have to move my knitting stash and tools out of one room and into another. I'm sorting stash and putting it into bins.

Have a cookie!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


BrattyPatty
Inform the poster that there is no Queen Mother now. She is long gone. Elizabeth is the Queen and not Queen Mother.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Inform the poster that there is no Queen Mother now. She is long gone. Elizabeth is the Queen and not Queen Mother.


I know that she is gone. However, it does not take away what Michelle did.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


aw9358
Thank you on both points, touching was touching and dead Queen Mother. Huck.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> Thank you on both points, touching was touching and dead Queen Mother. Huck.


It showed a lack of respect and ignorance of protocol.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> No, it was not a warm gesture. It was a total breech of protocol. Aside from the Queen Mother (dead or not Michelle did it and it left an impression), Europeans generally are very mannerly and attend to protocol. Have experienced it many times. That is why Americans have such a bad rep there. Anyway, that is your view and it is WAY off base. She really made a huge mistake that was an embarrassment to all here, whether you know it or not. She lived up to the ugly American rep by doing that. Shame on her. I hope she does not embarrass our country again.


aw9358
You may want to inform the so uninformed that you as a British Subject know and she does not. I would do that myself but made a deal with her not to speak to her and I like to keep that. She seems feebleminded and has forgotten that. Thank you. Huck.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> Thank you on both points, touching was touching and dead Queen Mother. Huck.


My pleasure. Anne.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


aw9358
Hello she is just a pompous flake trying tho show that she knows something and in the process shows her ignorance. You have every right to post here as anyone else. By the way ugly Americans are in a great minority but she certainly fits the bill.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you, Patty. I was starting to have serious doubts about my sanity.


aw9358
Your sanity is fine, very fine.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> You may want to inform the so uninformed that you as a British Subject know and she does not. I would do that myself but made a deal with her not to speak to her and I like to keep that. She seems feebleminded and has forgotten that. Thank you. Huck.


I did try but was told I am WAY out of line. I don't like arguing when it's pointless, but thanks for your support.

Sorry, should have put WAY off base. Memory lapse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Well, I wasn't a bit embarrassed. There are a ton of things going on in the US that should be a much bigger embarrassment---republicans trying to force women into transvaginal ultrasounds, the latest idiot trying to tell us that male fetuses pleasure themselves in utero because he witnessed their little hands between their legs, no participation in the House by Tea Baggers and right-wing representatives in actually passing any legislation, getting rid of programs to help the disadvantaged, jumping into wars----the list goes on. Why don't some of the important things embarrass you?
> 
> And the many many people living in poverty in this rich country?? Isn't that a little more embarrassing than the First Lady touching the queen??? Or wearing what you consider an ugly dress??


alcameron
She does not understand the subject matters you stated. Too hard to handle.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I remember that dress well. She looked beautiful in it. She's buff and can carry a dress like that off better than most women.


BrattyPatty
The Gyms are full of women trying to get her shape and the Suntan Parlors on overload when the sun fails to show up, to get her tan.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Anti-nausea medication for my friend:


alcameron
You Rascal making us lusty.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Well, I wasn't a bit embarrassed. There are a ton of things going on in the US that should be a much bigger embarrassment---republicans trying to force women into transvaginal ultrasounds, the latest idiot trying to tell us that male fetuses pleasure themselves in utero because he witnessed their little hands between their legs, no participation in the House by Tea Baggers and right-wing representatives in actually passing any legislation, getting rid of programs to help the disadvantaged, jumping into wars----the list goes on. Why don't some of the important things embarrass you?
> And the many many people living in poverty in this rich country?? Isn't that a little more embarrassing than the First Lady touching the queen??? Or wearing what you consider an ugly dress??


tsk tsk, off again with the name calling

trans-vaginal ultrasounds have medical purposes

Never heard about the boy thing, my son was sucking his thumb though and I though it was adorable.

Why are more people on public assistance? Was that the change you were hoping for? Can't blame Bush, that was on Obama's watch.

What legislation would you like to see passed? Where is the Democratic budget? What legislation has the Democrats proposed, especially one that does not raise taxes?

Where is the transparency so Americans will know about Benghazi, the IRS scandal, the AP and Fox scandal, Fast and Furious? New war in Syria. Now there is a list of American embarrassments


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Just walked my beasts. This is a little pond two blocks from my house. One of my dogs is stubborn and won't walk just anywhere. Today he wouldn't walk around the pond at all. We need a animal behaviorist. I've stood on the sidewalk with him for 10 minutes or more trying to make him walk where I want to go. He won't budge. I get mad, because I'm the human, and he's supposed to mind me! After 15 minutes I give up.


You must live in the country. . .beautiful. Where is this pond?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron
Thank you. Beautiful scenery. You just don't understand your pooch, he wants to take in the surroundings at rest.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358
And you think these folks here get bend out of shape when our First Lady touches the Queen, you ain't seen nothing yet. If Mrs. Obama would have made a curtsy all Hell would have broken loose. When President Obama showed expected respect to a King, they went tuity fruity That is how much they know about etiquette. I guess we were put here for a reason, educate the fools.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> And you think these folks here get bend out of shape when our First Lady touches the Queen, you ain't seen nothing yet. If Mrs. Obama would have made a curtsy all Hell would have broken loose. When President Obama showed expected respect to a King, they went bunkers. That is how much they know about etiquette. I guess we were put here for a reason, educate the fools.


Aye, there's a lot to be said for moveable goalposts. It means never having to be wrong about anything.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk, off again with the name calling
> 
> trans-vaginal ultrasounds have medical purposes
> 
> ...


alcameron
Is it not amazing how lost these folks are?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

"However" is speaking like a teenager who has no proper answer and responds: "whatever". How mature.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Aye, there's a lot to be said for moveable goalposts. It means never having to be wrong about anything.


aw9358
I like that expression.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Inform the poster that there is no Queen Mother now. She is long gone. Elizabeth is the Queen and not Queen Mother.


Anne already did, Huck. You'd think the QM was made of some kind of sacred glass. Geez...........


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Toasted pecans would be great. I roast my own nuts for my candy making. Special recipe. My mother's family was a major distributor of choc candy and many other (toffee, candy canes, ribbon candy) during the depression. I learned that choc making is depression proof. People still buy chocolate during a depression. My mother's family ate and lived ok because of their business. That is how my father met my mother. Lots of history.


I hear beer is depression proof, too.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk, off again with the name calling
> 
> trans-vaginal ultrasounds have medical purposes
> 
> ...


Transvaginal ultrasounds before an abortion have no use except to debase the woman on the table. What's the point? It's just rape with a different name. And it is very costly.
A woman who was raped would find this to be a medical necessity? 43 other states do not agree with the state of Virginia in this matter. It's nothing but brutish behavior on the Republican side. 
Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi........................... still barfing out the rhetoric I see. 
I must have missed the Syrian War memo. I was not aware that we are at war with them.
Darrell Isa has come up with nothing but egg on his face so far.
It seems very transparent to me that there is nothing there so far on any of these "scandals". Just another waste of the taxpayer's money.
I for one would like to see equal pay for women pass the legislation along with immigration reform.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I thought that, while some folks, even the Queen Mum, were a bit surprised by the First Lady's action, they looked like they took it in the spirit in which it was intended.


aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Hyacinth doesn't do sarcasm, but she's gone now. Back to spewing my left-wing unpleasantness, class hatred and all that jazz.


Didn't our Onslow indulge in a bit of sarcasm?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk, off again with the name calling
> 
> trans-vaginal ultrasounds have medical purposes
> 
> ...


Name calling:was it the fact that I called my beautiful dogs beasts or that I called an unknown Congressman an idiot for saying what he said? I think I insulted my dogs. My words are nothing but mild compared to what I have seen on this forum when your group talks nonstop about the President and his family. In fact I've been the recipient of name-calling by some of your most trusted Christians, which is very unbecoming a Christian. Go chastise them! I have no desire to argue with you about anything, so I'm not wasting my time.
Have a cookie, Lovethelake. I learned that from Janeway.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Transvaginal ultrasounds before an abortion have no use except to debase the woman on the table. What's the point? It's just rape with a different name.
> A woman who was raped would find this to be a medical necessity? The rest of the country does not agree with the state of Virginia in this matter. It's nothing but brutish behavior on the Republican side.
> Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi........................... still barfing out the rhetoric I see.
> I must have missed the Syrian War memo. I was not aware that we are at war with them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Silly me, I thought our First Lady touched both the Queen Mum and the Queen. Must have had a senior moment...


Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> You may want to inform the so uninformed that you as a British Subject know and she does not. I would do that myself but made a deal with her not to speak to her and I like to keep that. She seems feebleminded and has forgotten that. Thank you. Huck.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps they have been warned on Ravelry that their posts are inappropriate.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would think the only thing Ravelry may even be concerned about is theft of someone's patterns or ideas without paying for it or taking it and copying it and then handing it out. Also some patterns say you can make the item for yourself but not make it and sell it. What anyone says there on the threads is not of concern to them. They are quite liberal in what they allow people to post. I think lakelady is just blowing smoke. FF has her number and she knows it. She has been exposed for the fraud she is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A lovely, creative lady intent upon making the world a better place for all. Thanks.



SeattleSoul said:


> I'm glad you like it, Huck. It's a picture of Aunt Molly Jackson. Here;s what the Encyclopedia of Kentucky has to say about her. The line from one of her songs I remember best is "I am a coal miner's wife, I'm sure I wish you well, let's sink this capitialistic system in the darkest pits of Hell"
> 
> "During the 1930s, Mary Magdalene Garland Aunt Molly Jackson was a prominent activist in the struggle for the unionization of the Appalachian coalﬁelds. Her performances at labor rallies featured original protest songs closely modeled on traditional mountain music.
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Transvaginal ultrasounds before an abortion have no use except to debase the woman on the table. What's the point? It's just rape with a different name. And it is very costly.
> A woman who was raped would find this to be a medical necessity? 43 other states do not agree with the state of Virginia in this matter. It's nothing but brutish behavior on the Republican side.
> Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi........................... still barfing out the rhetoric I see.
> I must have missed the Syrian War memo. I was not aware that we are at war with them.
> ...


BrattyPatty
Thank you to educate but I am afraid it is too late, no more room to absorb. Totally occupied with stuff.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A-a-a-men! All together....



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks GW and SS for your posts on this Ministry closing down. I worked here in MN on VOTE NO so our State constiutions wording would not be changed to marriage is between one man and one woman and later this year I am very happy to say MN will be performing our first same sex marriages. This Sunday I will be working with Out Front MN during the Pride weekend festivities. We are finally giving equal rights to our GLBT brothers and sisters.
> Can I hear an Amen?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> A-a-a-men! All together....


damemary
H A L L E L U J A H.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SS you brought up the subject of train trips. I'd love to use the train but find it is so expensive. Am I looking wrong? Any tips? Thanks.



SeattleSoul said:


> Unfortunately, I have to say I don't have a bucket list yet. Writing some more poetry and taking as many train trips as possible will be on it, though. I'm sure there are people composing songs about the ills of our generation and we could find them somewhere and listen to them, but right now I don't want any downers around.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would hope that those who know us well, know us well enough to accept our opinions.



soloweygirl said:


> I wonder what yours would say if they read your comments.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> SS you brought up the subject of train trips. I'd love to use the train but find it is so expensive. Am I looking wrong? Any tips? Thanks.


I have been in trains in Europe, but hadn't been in one in the US until this year. Dean and I took a little (very short) trip in California just to see what Amtrak was like.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bullfeathers.



soloweygirl said:


> Then why don't you do the honorable thing and tell her who you are? Why keep it a secret? Unless of course you have something to hide.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you speak for all your friends? Several (not all) on this side have received nasty pm's from your friends. This makes us all cautious to keep our privacy private. The Internet is an anonymous place.



lovethelake said:


> Hilarious. Neither I or my friends threatened to call the police, talk about paranoid. But wait, I did think she said a few days back "sue me". Cowards are not worth my time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do you speak for all your friends? Several (not all) on this side have received nasty pm's from your friends. This makes us all cautious to keep our privacy private. The Internet is an anonymous place.


Are you kidding me? :shock: Who is calling who a coward?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, do tell. Law degree? Millionaire status? Respect of millions? Great taste and class? Just let me know the list to check.



Lukelucy said:


> I have more than she has.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Right beside you.



Lukelucy said:


> I am in this century. Where are you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So old school my dear. Some things benefit from change. Try it sometime.



Lukelucy said:


> She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Oh, do tell. Law degree? Millionaire status? Respect of millions? Great taste and class? Just let me know the list to check.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's a doofus. Just ignore her. We do.



aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rest your mind, dear lady. TBBC.



aw9358 said:


> Thank you, Patty. I was starting to have serious doubts about my sanity.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wow! That's telling her.



alcameron said:


> Well, I wasn't a bit embarrassed. There are a ton of things going on in the US that should be a much bigger embarrassment---republicans trying to force women into transvaginal ultrasounds, the latest idiot trying to tell us that male fetuses pleasure themselves in utero because he witnessed their little hands between their legs, no participation in the House by Tea Baggers and right-wing representatives in actually passing any legislation, getting rid of programs to help the disadvantaged, jumping into wars----the list goes on. Why don't some of the important things embarrass you?
> 
> And the many many people living in poverty in this rich country?? Isn't that a little more embarrassing than the First Lady touching the queen??? Or wearing what you consider an ugly dress??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And didn't the British perfect satire? YES.



aw9358 said:


> Your self-retraint does you credit, Andrea, but flipping heck, those trivial things you listed are nothing to the heinous crime of touching our monarch. For goodness' sake, I'll warrant you're not even wearing gloves to type. Get some etiquette lessons and I might consider talking to you, you American peasant/upstart/colonial etc etc etc.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This may be a chance for lucy to claim her 15 minutes of fame.



alcameron said:


> Why don't you write her a letter? I'm sure she'd rather listen to you than Ralph Lauren or Caroline Herrera or Guy Laroche or Sonia Rykiel.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I had a stubborn Basset Hound. Once upon a time I was forced to carry the baby and put the dog in the stroller. Necessity is the mother of invention. Good luck.



alcameron said:


> Just walked my beasts. This is a little pond two blocks from my house. One of my dogs is stubborn and won't walk just anywhere. Today he wouldn't walk around the pond at all. We need a animal behaviorist. I've stood on the sidewalk with him for 10 minutes or more trying to make him walk where I want to go. He won't budge. I get mad, because I'm the human, and he's supposed to mind me! After 15 minutes I give up.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> The Ravelry site is not any of your business as you are just jealous. I joined after being invited. You are angry that you are not included. You are bad, bad.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
I would rather walk on nails barefoot than hang out with that
group of nasty dried up old bags who do nothing but complain about this site here. You've been warned,rodent!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OMG. Just when you think you've heard it all.....



lovethelake said:


> tsk tsk, off again with the name calling
> 
> trans-vaginal ultrasounds have medical purposes
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't answer that! No hints.



Meerkat said:


> You must live in the country. . .beautiful. Where is this pond?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> SS you brought up the subject of train trips. I'd love to use the train but find it is so expensive. Am I looking wrong? Any tips? Thanks.


damemary
In some parts of the Country they have Dinner trips by Train.
Those are short - just a few hours - but very enjoyable. Our dream is a trip on the Orient Express. Friends did that for their 25th Anniversay. Kids and all friends pitched in instead of having a Party. They said that it was a dream and well worth the expense. Need to check my Lotto Ticket.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I would hope that those who know us well, know us well enough to accept our opinions.


damemary
No guessing with this girl. I am an open book and they like it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> No guessing with this girl. I am an open book and they like it.


That is what I admire about you, Huck :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I had a stubborn Basset Hound. Once upon a time I was forced to carry the baby and put the dog in the stroller. Necessity is the mother of invention. Good luck.


damemary
A cute picture that makes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That is what I admire about you, Huck :-D


BrattyPatty
Thank you. I try to be as clear as a Bell. Ring it and I chime in.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
Who is the pretty Lady in your Avatar? Have been guessing but cannot come up with her name.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Who is the pretty Lady in your Avatar? Have been guessing but cannot come up with her name. Sexy she is.


That would be a young Ginger Rogers. I loved her! She was sassy and so talented as an actress and dancer.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> OMG. Just when you think you've heard it all.....


damemary
You see what keeps the shrinks occupied is learning about folks like this. Aren't the Cons. a hoot? The latest is Masturbation in Utero. What is next? They are so hung up on sex and women's body parts aren't they. Extremely deprived perhaps or simply perverts? Wonder, wonder, wonder.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huck, I know you directed this at dame, but I have to say that these people are far beyond crazy. Demented comes to mind.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That would be a young Ginger Rogers. I loved her! She's a smart a-- like me :mrgreen:


BrattyPatty
Thank you. Missed her name totally. I have the dress to copy her dancing, looking for a partner. Mine is no Dancer. Miss my Dad he was a fabulous one. He loved it so much that we all had to take dancing lessons.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck, I know you directed this at dame, but I have to say that these people are far beyond crazy. Demented comes to mind.


BrattyPatty
I am happy to hear from you no matter whom I addressed.
I am still looking for a term to apply to their idiocy. I guess it will take a totally new description because they are so far out.
Men-o-pause sure is taking its toll on those old geesers and now a nutty women is joining them. Perhaps she is in drag. Who knows. Their show is to be continued I am sure since they seem to be lacking intelligent remarks to get their faces in the news. Anything to show your puss seems to be their motto.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Thank you. Missed her name totally. I have the dress to copy her dancing, looking for a partner. Mine is no Dancer. Miss my Dad he was a fabulous one. He loved it so much that we all had to take dancing lessons.


Rumor has it that Fred Astaire didn't care WHO he as dancing with, but rather he danced with the dress. I think my GD will be a dancer. That's all she does lol


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Al, what was your experience in US?



alcameron said:


> I have been in trains in Europe, but hadn't been in one in the US until this year. Dean and I took a little (very short) trip in California just to see what Amtrak was like.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Rumor has it that Fred Astaire didn't care WHO he as dancing with, but rather he danced with the dress. I think my GD will be a dancer. That's all she does lol


BrattyPatty
I would encourage her.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too....along with many other things.



BrattyPatty said:


> That is what I admire about you, Huck :-D


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Al, what was your experience in US?


When I say "short trip" I mean short. It was very comfortable, but all we did was sit back in our seats and enjoy the scenery. Can't tell you much. There's a train trip across Canada that's supposed to be beautiful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It was a very big pram-type stroller....but his wrinkly head and long ears hung over. Thank heavens this was before everyone had a camera in their phone.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> A cute picture that makes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Patty, is your avatar a young Marilyn or you?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Love your new avatar, Al!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Patty, is your avatar a young Marilyn or you?


dame, that is a young Ginger Rogers. I have 2 left feet so the only thing we have in common is the "Ginger", my hair color.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are we supposed to observe or vote? I guess we'll just laugh at the rightie tighties.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> You see what keeps the shrinks occupied is learning about folks like this. Aren't the Cons. a hoot? The latest is Masturbation in Utero. What is next? They are so hung up on sex and women's body parts aren't they. Extremely deprived perhaps or simply perverts? Wonder, wonder, wonder.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

My son took a couple of train trips. One was to Seattle. They had back luck. The air brakes went out on the train and they were stalled in Montana in the middle of the night for 4 hours. On the way back, a freight train tore up some track and they had to be bussed from Missoula, MT to Minot, ND.
His trip to Boston was wonderful. 
Another reason to rebuild our infrastructure.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well ladies, I am calling it a night. 
Bazinga!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> When I say "short trip" I mean short. It was very comfortable, but all we did was sit back in our seats and enjoy the scenery. Can't tell you much. There's a train trip across Canada that's supposed to be beautiful.


alcameron
Have been on a Canadian Train from Vancoucer to the East Coast through Canada. It was wonderful. Never been on a long train trip in the USA just short hops. Would go in a heartbeat if we had trains as they have in other parts of the world. Time for this country to become modern. Air travel is the pits now and many old people cannot or do not want to drive. With an ever growing older population changes are a must to keep people mobile.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well ladies, I am calling it a night.
> Bazinga!!


I wish you a peaceful night Patty. Bazinga.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I truly wish train travel would compete with air travel in cost. Hard to justify when it is slower, more expensive and less convenient.



BrattyPatty said:


> My son took a couple of train trips. One was to Seattle. They had back luck. The air brakes went out on the train and they were stalled in Montana in the middle of the night for 4 hours. On the way back, a freight train tore up some track and they had to be bussed from Missoula, MT to Minot, ND.
> His trip to Boston was wonderful.
> Another reason to rebuild our infrastructure.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True! This is an opportunity to improve train travel. Retired people growing in numbers....have the time.



Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Have been on a Canadian Train from Vancoucer to the East Coast through Canada. It was wonderful. Never been on a long train trip in the USA just short hops. Would go in a heartbeat if we had trains as they have in other parts of the world. Time for this country to become modern. Air travel is the pits now and many old people cannot or do not want to drive. With an ever growing older population changes are a must to keep people mobile.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bazinga for me too. May check in later.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> She should know that you NEVER EVER EVER touch the Queen Mother. There was a photo of her doing just that. She does not know her limits. Needs schooling on protocol. She was a total embarrassment to the United States of America by doing this.


Lukelucy Mrs. Obama did not touch the Queen Mother she hugged Queen Elizabeth. The Queen Mother was Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon the wife of King George VI. She died in 2002. Seems as though you are the one needing the schooling my dear. When Mrs. Obama hugged Queen Elizabeth the Queen put her arm around Mrs. Obama's waist. Both of these women have tons of class and throw out that useless book of yours.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


Yes, Anne it is lukelucy who needs schooling. I just saw a photo of the incident in question and the Queen put her arm around Mr's Obama's waist and Mrs. Obama had her arm around the Queen's. Both of these women have plenty of class and lukelucy should toss out her Ms. Manners book. I do think she is still living in the last century. Yes, she doesn't know her royalty either as the Queen Mom died in 2002 I believe.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, it was not a warm gesture. It was a total breech of protocol. Aside from the Queen Mother (dead or not Michelle did it and it left an impression), Europeans generally are very mannerly and attend to protocol. Have experienced it many times. That is why Americans have such a bad rep there. Anyway, that is your view and it is WAY off base. She really made a huge mistake that was an embarrassment to all here, whether you know it or not. She lived up to the ugly American rep by doing that. Shame on her. I hope she does not embarrass our country again.


Lukelucy you are the ugly American. We all know why you don't like the First Lady but at least you have enough sense to lie about it. Pretty soon you are going to be in the minority. How are you going to feel then? You had better get used to it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she wasn't. Maybe only to the Obama haters. I recall Rush Limbaugh calling her "uppity" over this.


Yes Patty, we all know what "uppity" means including lukelucy.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Is there anything I am allowed to talk about? The US is off limits because I am not American, and now I cannot tell you about my own country because you know it better.


Anne - Evidently, lukelucy believes she is the expert on this even though you are the British citizen. She is the one who is the "ugly American" and I'm sure you would agree.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Silly me, I thought our First Lady touched both the Queen Mum and the Queen. Must have had a senior moment...


Happens to all of us, SS. You are entitled to your moments.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have been in trains in Europe, but hadn't been in one in the US until this year. Dean and I took a little (very short) trip in California just to see what Amtrak was like.


Damemary - Bob has traveled all over the world on trains. I have been on quite a few myself. Between us and SS we could probably give you some pointers.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> SS you brought up the subject of train trips. I'd love to use the train but find it is so expensive. Am I looking wrong? Any tips? Thanks.


No, i don't think you're looking in the wrong place. Train travel is incredibly expensive, especially if you want sleeping accomodations. They include your meals but it's still expensive. The only train trip I've ever taken with sleeping accomadations was with a blind friend to Seattle and back, and it cost about 40% of what the fare would have been if neither of us had been disabled. My friend had her guide dog to bring along, too, so we got the biggest rooms available so there was room enough for the dog to lie down.

The stewards were great, and got up us at night when the train made it's 20 minute stops so we could take the dog out to relieve herself. We drug that poor dog through a huge, crowded music festival that was no fun for the dog at all, and she finally rebelled for the first time in her guide dog career and would not take advantage of the long stop in Portland on our eay home. I ran her up and down the siding to see if I could get anything moving and that didn't work either. The only benefit anyone got was that all the passengers on our side of the train got to watch me run back and forth like some crazy person.

Maybe I should start playing every lottery possible because I love to fantasize about riding on all of Amtrak's routes. most of which would take me near people I know and would enjoy visiting.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My son took a couple of train trips. One was to Seattle. They had back luck. The air brakes went out on the train and they were stalled in Montana in the middle of the night for 4 hours. On the way back, a freight train tore up some track and they had to be bussed from Missoula, MT to Minot, ND.
> His trip to Boston was wonderful.
> Another reason to rebuild our infrastructure.


We took the train from St.Paul to Seattle and didn't have the bad luck your son did Patty. That would put a damper on things. You leave St.Paul at midnight and you arrive in Seattle the morning of the 2nd day. We had a sleeper and it was lovely. The sleeping car attendant gets your beds ready and they served warm chocolate chip cookies and milk. It was so fun going through places at night. All meals were included and they have white linen dining and the food is wonderful. You go through the Rockies, the high desert and the Cascades. It's really beautiful. I would do it again in a minute. We would be happy to tell you about some of our other trips if you are interested.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I truly wish train travel would compete with air travel in cost. Hard to justify when it is slower, more expensive and less convenient.


Bob and I find train travel very romantic and relaxing. Not the way to go if you are in a hurry but if not it really is special and Amtrak does offer some very good fares if you book early. We have a lot of catching up to do compared to other countries when it comes to rail travel.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sometimes necessity is just a motherf----r, pardon my French...


damemary said:


> I had a stubborn Basset Hound. Once upon a time I was forced to carry the baby and put the dog in the stroller. Necessity is the mother of invention. Good luck.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bob and I find train travel very romantic and relaxing. Not the way to go if you are in a hurry but if not it really is special and Amtrak does offer some very good fares if you book early. We have a lot of catching up to do compared to other countries when it comes to rail travel.


I bet the chocolate chip cookie wasn't as good as mine, though.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> You see what keeps the shrinks occupied is learning about folks like this. Aren't the Cons. a hoot? The latest is Masturbation in Utero. What is next? They are so hung up on sex and women's body parts aren't they. Extremely deprived perhaps or simply perverts? Wonder, wonder, wonder.


Masturbation in utero? I suppose if a fetus can suck its thumb it can play with its genitals, but that should be considered a private matter between the fetus and the uterus it's in. Talk about TMI...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Masturbation in utero? I suppose if a fetus can suck its thumb it can play with its genitals, but that should be considered a private matter between the fetus and the uterus it's in. Talk about TMI...


The guy was trying to prove that a fetus can feel pain at 20? weeks, so to prove that he can feel, he said that a male fetus, because he had his hands between his legs, was pleasuring himself. Who knows? I thought it was way over the top.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In my mind "uppity" calls to mind people who think minorities "don't know their place." It screams bigotry to me.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes Patty, we all know what "uppity" means including lukelucy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love to hear more.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> We took the train from St.Paul to Seattle and didn't have the bad luck your son did Patty. That would put a damper on things. You leave St.Paul at midnight and you arrive in Seattle the morning of the 2nd day. We had a sleeper and it was lovely. The sleeping car attendant gets your beds ready and they served warm chocolate chip cookies and milk. It was so fun going through places at night. All meals were included and they have white linen dining and the food is wonderful. You go through the Rockies, the high desert and the Cascades. It's really beautiful. I would do it again in a minute. We would be happy to tell you about some of our other trips if you are interested.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, you knew Barney. He was wonderful with the kids, but stubborn as ....well you know what he was stubborn as....



SeattleSoul said:


> Sometimes necessity is just a motherf----r, pardon my French...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's a given.



alcameron said:


> I bet the chocolate chip cookie wasn't as good as mine, though.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga friends. Sweet dreams.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> dame, that is a young Ginger Rogers. I have 2 left feet so the only thing we have in common is the "Ginger", my hair color.


Blimey, I hope so. I read or heard somewhere that she would wind Fred up with her rabid political views. Great dancer though. I was brought up on those films and did the same favour for my young 'uns. My 3-year-old (boy) always wanted to be Ginger, but I never got a photo of him in his sister's bridesmaid dress.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Heard in the news that a Catholic priest has called out Nancy Pelosi regarding her support of abortion because she says she is Catholic. To paraphrase; leave the church or change your belief regarding abortion. I know that the issue of abortion is divisive and probably views are set in stone based on one's religion/beliefs/morals/political views......and I accept that. But if one, like myself, embraces the Catholic faith, one can not condone abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. In my opinion, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden need to choose between their Catholic faith or their support of abortion. I can accept what ever belief they choose to believe. But what I can not accept is pontificating being both pro-abortion and saying they are practicing Catholics.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The guy was trying to prove that a fetus can feel pain at 20? weeks, so to prove that he can feel, he said that a male fetus, because he had his hands between his legs, was pleasuring himself. Who knows? I thought it was way over the top.


Please, please tell me this is a hoax.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Catholic faith recognizes a matter of conscience. Many, many Catholics do not fully agree with all teachings of the Catholic Church. This is generally a matter between the person and their Confessor. I personally feel that it is wrong of any Church to insinuate itself between Church and State. Americans do not wished to be ruled by the Pope. Believe me, we'd still be waiting for the first Catholic president, don't you think?



lovethelake said:


> Heard in the news that a Catholic priest has called out Nancy Pelosi regarding her support of abortion because she says she is Catholic. To paraphrase; leave the church or change your belief regarding abortion. I know that the issue of abortion is divisive and probably views are set in stone based on one's religion/beliefs/morals/political views......and I accept that. But if one, like myself, embraces the Catholic faith, one can not condone abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. In my opinion, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden need to choose between their Catholic faith or their support of abortion. I can accept what ever belief they choose to believe. But what I can not accept is pontificating being both pro-abortion and saying they are practicing Catholics.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

They are probably between a rock and a hard place. They have party positions to support and aren't in a position to emphasize their Catholic beliefs. I hope they are privately in agreement with their Church, at least.


lovethelake said:


> Heard in the news that a Catholic priest has called out Nancy Pelosi regarding her support of abortion because she says she is Catholic. To paraphrase; leave the church or change your belief regarding abortion. I know that the issue of abortion is divisive and probably views are set in stone based on one's religion/beliefs/morals/political views......and I accept that. But if one, like myself, embraces the Catholic faith, one can not condone abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. In my opinion, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden need to choose between their Catholic faith or their support of abortion. I can accept what ever belief they choose to believe. But what I can not accept is pontificating being both pro-abortion and saying they are practicing Catholics.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bob and I find train travel very romantic and relaxing. Not the way to go if you are in a hurry but if not it really is special and Amtrak does offer some very good fares if you book early. We have a lot of catching up to do compared to other countries when it comes to rail travel.


we have a lot of catching up to do in many areas...child welfare/care, environment, public transit, use of bicycles in cities and lanes for safe bicycle use, true separation of church and state in policies the list is very long.

Hey Cheeky nice to have you around again.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Heard in the news that a Catholic priest has called out Nancy Pelosi regarding her support of abortion because she says she is Catholic. To paraphrase; leave the church or change your belief regarding abortion. I know that the issue of abortion is divisive and probably views are set in stone based on one's religion/beliefs/morals/political views......and I accept that. But if one, like myself, embraces the Catholic faith, one can not condone abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. In my opinion, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden need to choose between their Catholic faith or their support of abortion. I can accept what ever belief they choose to believe. But what I can not accept is pontificating being both pro-abortion and saying they are practicing Catholics.


We can't worry about Nancy Pelosi's and Joe Biden's Catholic faith. It's their faith and their conscience. Also, access to abortion is the law and as government leaders, they are in a difficult position.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Please, please tell me this is a hoax.


aw9358
Unfortunately it is not. You just have to try and catch all of the nonsense the Republican guys emit. Like "when it is legitimate rape that thing shuts down and the woman can't get pregnant". And you thought that some of your politicians were ridiculous. Yours as I observed in some debates are really funny, ours are nuts. Boy do the Republicans here have some doozies on board.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The guy was trying to prove that a fetus can feel pain at 20? weeks, so to prove that he can feel, he said that a male fetus, because he had his hands between his legs, was pleasuring himself. Who knows? I thought it was way over the top.


alcameron
Who would ever have such thoughts? Sounds like a pornographic mind to me. Shrink please.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

If the catholic church would asks all of those who believe in choice and birth control to leave the church, the pews will be pretty empty.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> If the catholic church would asks all of those who believe in choice and birth control to leave the church, the pews will be pretty empty.


And they're aren't all that full to begin with.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The guy was trying to prove that a fetus can feel pain at 20? weeks, so to prove that he can feel, he said that a male fetus, because he had his hands between his legs, was pleasuring himself. Who knows? I thought it was way over the top.


alcameron
Oh sure and every time our little baby boys touch their little faucets they are masturbating. Sexual activity in babyhood. 
Only some deprived guy could come up with such stuff. What is next?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Little children do discover their genetalia and that it feels good to touch them. This is an entirely innocent activity. I believe the main thing to trach the child is that what they're doing is something they do in private. I'm an advocate of encouraging teens to masturbate, too. First of all, I think it would help delay becoming sexually active, and secondly, give them a safe release from all those raging hormones. Also, if they do masturbate, they'll learn something about what they like, and won't be so ignorant of their own desires when they do become sexually active. Boys have wet dreams and seem more likely to masturbate, but what about girls? I'm not trying to introduce pornography here. I'm talking about allowing and encouraging a very private activity.


Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Oh sure and every time our little baby boys touch their little faucets they are masturbating. Sexual activity in babyhood.
> Only some deprived guy could come up with such stuff. What is next?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> And just what limits might those be? Oversteps her bounds? She is the First Lady of the Leader of the Free World.
> LOL Emily Post. I threw that book out with my garter belt!
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Now that's funny!!! Emily was rather stilted. Garter belts = yuck!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Has anyone seen this? Some idiot is selling space in a huge limestone cave for those interested in surviving a nuclear apocalypse.

http://news.yahoo.com/developer-kan-caverns-could-preserve-human-race-071249444.html

"I do believe I am on a mission and doing a spiritual thing," said Robert Vicino, who has purchased a large portion of the former U.S. Army storage facility on the southeast edge of Atchison, about 50 miles northwest of Kansas City, Mo. "We will certainly be part of the genesis."

But of course being part of the genesis doesn't come cheap--the developer is charging 1K for every lineal foot of space. Zowie! Apparently he's making money hand over fist.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


Yep and the Queen took it that way as well. My cousin in England thought it was a sincere gesture. Very few were offended.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Don't forget the classy bathing suit dress


You didn't know that?? We would love to hear from you.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Have been on a Canadian Train from Vancoucer to the East Coast through Canada. It was wonderful. Never been on a long train trip in the USA just short hops. Would go in a heartbeat if we had trains as they have in other parts of the world. Time for this country to become modern. Air travel is the pits now and many old people cannot or do not want to drive. With an ever growing older population changes are a must to keep people mobile.


This is on my bucket list - so want to do the train trip in Canada.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Yep and the Queen took it that way as well. My cousin in England thought it was a sincere gesture. Very few were offended.


Somehow the whole flap seems awfully familiar. I vaguely recall a similar stink when Queen Elizabeth came to the US and visited a public housing project (in the 90s?). Conservatives were appalled when the inhabitant of one of the flats welcomed her with a "Hello, Queen" and gave her a warm embrace. Still remember a political cartoon from the event: showed a strapping African-American woman with a bucket of fried chicken crushing the monarch in a hearty bear hug. Very ugly...and VERY racist.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The Amtrak Empire Route, the most northern route Amtrak runs, is also wonderful.


GWPlver said:


> This is on my bucket list - so want to do the train trip in Canada.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Somehow the whole flap seems awfully familiar. I vaguely recall a similar stink when Queen Elizabeth came to the US and visited a public housing project (in the 90s?). Conservatives were appalled when the inhabitant of one of the flats welcomed her with a "Hello, Queen" and gave her a warm embrace. Still remember a political cartoon from the event: showed a strapping African-American woman with a bucket of fried chicken crushing the monarch in a hearty bear hug. Very ugly...and VERY racist.


Why do people keep dredging up old stuff - time to let it go!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Why do people keep dredging up old stuff - time to let it go!!


Seems that some feel it's always worth remembering when the person committing the gaffe is of African-American decent. But the faux pas involving the Royal family are pretty funny--and amusing:

"And Bush's wasn't the first presidential fracture of protocol that she's had to deal with. In 1991, when visiting President George H.W. Bush, the current President's father, she made a speech on the White House behind a podium that was too tall for the 5'4" monarch and no step was provided for her. The result was that she appeared behind a row of microphones as what could only be described as a "talking hat." And once again the Queen gave as good as she got, this time she stated at an address to Congress, "I do hope you can see me from where you are today." This White House gaffe was thereafter called "podiumgate."

Another protocol infraction occurred during this 1991 visit to the States. While visiting a Washington D.C. housing project, resident Alice Frazier grabbed the Queen in a bearhug.

In 1976, when President Gerald Ford asked the Queen to dance at a White House dinner, the U.S. Marine Band launched into a rendition of Cole Porter's "The Lady is a Tramp."

Note that, in all of the above infractions, the Queen acted with appropriate aplomb and poise.

Also note that Americans haven't been the only ones to exhibit inappropriate behavior before Queen Elizabeth. In 1992, Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating posed for a photograph with the Queen, his arm around her shoulders. Cyclist Louis Garneau did the same thing in 2002.

Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau was an especially bad boy when he did a mocking pirouette behind the Queen's back at Buckingham Palace. He also broke protocol by sliding down the Palace's banisters." (Yahoo Voices)


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358, sorry about how ignorant I was about when the Queen Mum died. For some reason, I thought she died more recently than she did. What a figure she was. I hope the portrayal of her in "The King's Speech" was accurate.

Please keep posting messages here, about anything that comes to mind. I think I speak for many here who value your participation.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> we have a lot of catching up to do in many areas...child welfare/care, environment, public transit, use of bicycles in cities and lanes for safe bicycle use, true separation of church and state in policies the list is very long.
> 
> Hey Cheeky nice to have you around again.


peacegoddess
Once we can engage the young and show them how things could be, things will change. Relying on the old goats in Washington and their consituents who have been brainwashed won't accomplish anything. Just getting sidewalks installed is a major undertaking. Went through that but got it done. You should have heard folks complaining about the cost since nobody walks on their streets and they did not wonder why at all. Guess what, the sidewalks are in and in constant use by people of all ages and people get to know each other. Next bicycle Paths. Cyclers have as many rights as drivers. Most Politcians don't live in our World, we have to take them there.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Has anyone seen this? Some idiot is selling space in a huge limestone cave for those interested in surviving a nuclear apocalypse.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/developer-kan-caverns-could-preserve-human-race-071249444.html
> 
> ...


susanmos2000
Got to love it. Since there is a sucker born every minute, why not reel them in. Why not gather all the clowns. Capitalism sure is inventive. I actually applaud the guy for separating the nuts from their money. Now if he gives his enterprise a religious name his fortune will grow fast.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Got to love it. Since there is a sucker born every minute, why not reel them in. Why not gather all the clowns. Capitalism sure is inventive. I actually applaud the guy for separating the nuts from their money. Now if he gives his enterprise a religious name his fortune will grow fast.


Yes, the guy is a master. Check out his official site:

http://www.terravivos.com/secure/management.htm


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems that some feel it's always worth remembering when the person committing the gaffe is of African-American decent. But the faux pas involving the Royal family are pretty funny--and amusing:
> 
> "And Bush's wasn't the first presidential fracture of protocol that she's had to deal with. In 1991, when visiting President George H.W. Bush, the current President's father, she made a speech on the White House behind a podium that was too tall for the 5'4" monarch and no step was provided for her. The result was that she appeared behind a row of microphones as what could only be described as a "talking hat." And once again the Queen gave as good as she got, this time she stated at an address to Congress, "I do hope you can see me from where you are today." This White House gaffe was thereafter called "podiumgate."
> 
> ...


susanmos2000
Thank you for the memories. I well remember the Queen's hat speaking to the audience. She actually has quite a sense of humor and since Lady Diana and Fergie came on the scene all of the royals have loosened up.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Thank you for the memories. I well remember the Queen's hat speaking to the audience. She actually has quite a sense of humor and since Lady Diana and Fergie came on the scene all of the royals have loosened up.


Yes, I"d forgotten about the talking hat until I read that article. It WAS pretty funny--it's nice now that the royals seem to have developed a sense of humor.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, the guy is a master. Check out his official site:
> 
> http://www.terravivos.com/secure/management.htm


susanmos2000
Very interesting biography. Religion is a big seller these days.
So many old folks scared of the obvious and trying to hang on for dear life. The turn-around will come with the next generation, at the latest with the one thereafter.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

This incident is a little different, but I remember when Daddy Bush vomited at a dinner in Japan. I'm sure he couldn't help it, but what an awful vision!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's the story surrounding the fetal masturbation Texan representative.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-point-michael-burgess-was-trying-to-make-about-fetal-masturbation/276975/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This incident is a little different, but I remember when Daddy Bush vomited at a dinner in Japan. I'm sure he couldn't help it, but what an awful vision!


Yep, right in the Japanese Prime Minister's lap. I'm no fan of Bush, but in this case I'd give both men an A+ for aplomb and good sportsmanship. It must have been mortifying.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We can't worry about Nancy Pelosi's and Joe Biden's Catholic faith. It's their faith and their conscience. Also, access to abortion is the law and as government leaders, they are in a difficult position.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do they think ahead to leaving the limestone cave and what they would find?



susanmos2000 said:


> Has anyone seen this? Some idiot is selling space in a huge limestone cave for those interested in surviving a nuclear apocalypse.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/developer-kan-caverns-could-preserve-human-race-071249444.html
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Here's the story surrounding the fetal masturbation Texan representative.
> 
> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-point-michael-burgess-was-trying-to-make-about-fetal-masturbation/276975/


FETAL MASTURBATION
Now let's take this into life outside the uterus. IF the fetus is so active sexually in Utero then we have to acknowledge that those are normal sensations and continue outside the womb and we must accept that and have our kids masturbate and have intercourse at any age. How are dem apples? What a scary thought.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Does anyone remember this? My favorite political skit--still makes me laugh!

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4123


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Do they think ahead to leaving the limestone cave and what they would find?


damemary
Sure, they will be emerging with their fellow nuts into a totally desolate environment and they become cannibals to survive. He who shoots first gets the first bite. This "Inventor" probably has a gun shop in his cave.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Does anyone remember this? My favorite political skit--still makes me laugh!
> 
> http://www.hulu.com/watch/4123


susanmos2000
Thank you. No more funny politicians to be entertained by just real nuts.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Does anyone remember this? My favorite political skit--still makes me laugh!
> 
> http://www.hulu.com/watch/4123


Yes, I remember this one. It really made me laugh.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> I'm trusting the owners to use common sense. Regardless, it's worth it to have the truth out there.


Then put all the truth out there. Who are you really? How do you know LTL? Have you taken bits and pieces from the many posts of hers you have read on both forums and just said you know her? Your "claim" to know her means nothing without identifying yourself. Unless you are willing to do that, then stop the childish game you are playing and get some much needed psychological help.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then put all the truth out there. Who are you really? How do you know LTL? Have you taken bits and pieces from the many posts of hers you have read on both forums and just said you know her? Your "claim" to know her means nothing without identifying yourself. Unless you are willing to do that, then stop the childish game you are playing and get some much needed psychological help.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Very interesting biography. Religion is a big seller these days.
> So many old folks scared of the obvious and trying to hang on for dear life. The turn-around will come with the next generation, at the latest with the one thereafter.


So looking forward to that. I get very tired of hearing about the supposed "good old days" - truly, I can't imagine they were that good.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This incident is a little different, but I remember when Daddy Bush vomited at a dinner in Japan. I'm sure he couldn't help it, but what an awful vision!


Didn't a shoe get thrown at George Jr?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sure...so you and other interested parties can harass her with endless threats to telephone the cops. No dice...and in fact carrying out those threats wouldn't help anyone. If some here are worried about their ugly posts coming to the attention of friends and family members there's no better way to do it than to pester their local police with inane complaints and reports. The cops will laugh them out of the station...but family members and friends will flock to both sites just to see what all the fuss is about.


Oh please with the melodrama. I never said such things. I think she should just reveal herself in stead of hiding behind the forum. To use the forum to spread nasty comments about LTL and make it appear she knows her is just childish. It's time she ends this game and become the adult she should be. What is FF so afraid of? That she has carried the charade too far? That what she has said is actually a lie and you all bought into it? That she doesn't know how to deal with that?

Come on FF - the party is over, time to take off the mask and reveal yourself. How about it?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> Keep telling us what you don't know. 13,000 was the number. Relatively high since even dignitaries could not attend due to the
> extremely unusual heat for Germany. Also travel was difficult because of other global warming related climate problems like worst floods in over 100 years in several parts of the country.
> Try to educate you.


Keep drinking the Kool Aid. My what a good little soldier you are.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She is being real. Her facts are correct. If the temps were high and the Pope was speaking, attendance would be low.


Doubtful. People always come out to see the Pope, rain, shine, blistering heat, etc. The Pope will always be popular. Obama, not so much as is evident by the lack of people attending his speech. The heat was an excuse, nothing more, no matter how Chris Matthews wants to spin it. The bullet proof glass is also not an excuse.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I remember the touching incident with the Queen (the Queen Mother's dead, by the way). Here it was taken by the vast majority of people as a warm gesture that reflected very well on the United States as a nation of open and friendly people.


I took it as a gesture of someone letting another go before them. One naturally touches the person as a guide. Perfectly harmless. Never saw what the big fuss was about.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I took it as a gesture of someone letting another go before them. One naturally touches the person as a guide. Perfectly harmless. Never saw what the big fuss was about.


No. That is not what I am talking about. Not a harmless gesture.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


damemary
Religion should be a VERY personal issue and never become anyone-else's business.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Then put all the truth out there. Who are you really? How do you know LTL? Have you taken bits and pieces from the many posts of hers you have read on both forums and just said you know her? Your "claim" to know her means nothing without identifying yourself. Unless you are willing to do that, then stop the childish game you are playing and get some much needed psychological help.


FreedomFries
Keep the mystery going and the nosy folks busy.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Didn't a shoe get thrown at George Jr?


GWPIver
Sorry that Father Bush became ill but all handled it well. Seeing G.W. duck was funny.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> So looking forward to that. I get very tired of hearing about the supposed "good old days" - truly, I can't imagine they were that good.


GWPIver
I do not see anybody going back and live like they did in "the good old days", do you?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please with the melodrama. I never said such things. I think she should just reveal herself in stead of hiding behind the forum. To use the forum to spread nasty comments about LTL and make it appear she knows her is just childish. It's time she ends this game and become the adult she should be. What is FF so afraid of? That she has carried the charade too far? That what she has said is actually a lie and you all bought into it? That she doesn't know how to deal with that?
> 
> Come on FF - the party is over, time to take off the mask and reveal yourself. How about it?


FreedomFries
The majority vote is against revelation.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Keep drinking the Kool Aid. My what a good little soldier you are.


soloweygirl
Good I am, little I am not, VERY tall and slender.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Doubtful. People always come out to see the Pope, rain, shine, blistering heat, etc. The Pope will always be popular. Obama, not so much as is evident by the lack of people attending his speech. The heat was an excuse, nothing more, no matter how Chris Matthews wants to spin it. The bullet proof glass is also not an excuse.


soloweygil
The Pope will always be popular? Think again. Won't go further into this subject unless you want to be set straight.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> FreedomFries
> Keep the mystery going and the nosy folks busy.


I agree. They don't restrain themselves but come here and say very unpleasant, personal things to people they disagree with. Many of us have said we "know" someone here because we've read what they posted and had some back-and-forth exchanges. It's easy to forget that we really don't know each other as personally as some like to think, such as soloweygirl's idea that you, FF, know LTL better than any of us know each other.

If you have had a dozen other user names, it really doesn't mean anything. You're still whoever you are or were, and the nosey parkers seem to be trying to stir something up just for the sake of it. Your acceptance here proves a great deal that makes soloweygirl's position very shaky. Hang in there, FF.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> we have a lot of catching up to do in many areas...child welfare/care, environment, public transit, use of bicycles in cities and lanes for safe bicycle use, true separation of church and state in policies the list is very long.
> 
> Hey Cheeky nice to have you around again.


Good to see you too, peacegoddess!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems that some feel it's always worth remembering when the person committing the gaffe is of African-American decent. But the faux pas involving the Royal family are pretty funny--and amusing:
> 
> "And Bush's wasn't the first presidential fracture of protocol that she's had to deal with. In 1991, when visiting President George H.W. Bush, the current President's father, she made a speech on the White House behind a podium that was too tall for the 5'4" monarch and no step was provided for her. The result was that she appeared behind a row of microphones as what could only be described as a "talking hat." And once again the Queen gave as good as she got, this time she stated at an address to Congress, "I do hope you can see me from where you are today." This White House gaffe was thereafter called "podiumgate."
> 
> ...


Queen Elizabeth has a lot of class and moxie. She better than most monarchs knows that protocol and human behavior are not always in sync but she also knows when people are showing genuine affection for her and she reciprocates in kind. She's probably as up to date on the world as her grandchildren and remember she arrived at the London Olympics with James Bond as her escort and even William and Harry were surprised when their Grandmother showed up as she wanted it to be a surprise. Obviously, she has a wonderful sense of humor and enjoys having fun. The only people upset about Mr's Obama's hug were people who wouldn't like anything she does anyway. They are really upset about the current occupants of the White House and that's that.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Temperatures measured in Berlin during the President's visit from 34*C to 39*C = 93*F to 101*F. Almost never heard of there and no place to escape the heat.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Catholic faith recognizes a matter of conscience. Many, many Catholics do not fully agree with all teachings of the Catholic Church. This is generally a matter between the person and their Confessor. I personally feel that it is wrong of any Church to insinuate itself between Church and State. Americans do not wished to be ruled by the Pope. Believe me, we'd still be waiting for the first Catholic president, don't you think?


WRONG, not on the issue of abortion. If the fetus dies as a result of saving the mother's life (tubal pregnancy), the Church does consider that a mortal sin. Any other reason, it is murder in the eyes of the Church. Maybe you are confused with the Unitarian Church


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> WRONG, not on the issue of abortion. If the fetus dies as a result of saving the mother's life (tubal pregnancy), the Church does consider that a mortal sin. Any other reason, it is murder in the eyes of the Church.


Perhaps now, but the Catholic church hasn't always come out so strongly against abortion:

Saint Anselm of Canterbury (10331109) said that "no human intellect accepts the view that an infant has the rational soul from the moment of conception".[14] Abortion was viewed as a sin, but not as murder, until the embryo was animated by a human soul.[17] A few decades after Anselm's death, Catholic canon law, in the Decretum Gratiani, stated that "he is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body."[14]


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> FETAL MASTURBATION
> Now let's take this into life outside the uterus. IF the fetus is so active sexually in Utero then we have to acknowledge that those are normal sensations and continue outside the womb and we must accept that and have our kids masturbate and have intercourse at any age. How are dem apples? What a scary thought.


You can only acknowledge 'dem apples' if you also acknowledge they are humans in utero. To your ilk, what does it matter what they do before then? Until they are born they are only some globule of stuff. You can't have it both ways.

Also, you further expound on your initial statement by hypothesizing that humans "have intercourse at any age". With whom are they having intercourse?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> Religion should be a VERY personal issue and never become anyone-else's business.


I totally agree. And what bothers me is the number of people who try to convert (Jahovas Witness and some other group that cornered me as I tried to do my job).


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's one woman's heart-wrenching story about abortion. These decisions are never made easily.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/opinion/my-abortion-at-23-weeks.html?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130621&_r=0


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps now, but the Catholic church hasn't always come out so strongly against abortion:
> 
> Saint Anselm of Canterbury (10331109) said that "no human intellect accepts the view that an infant has the rational soul from the moment of conception".[14] Abortion was viewed as a sin, but not as murder, until the embryo was animated by a human soul.[17] A few decades after Anselm's death, Catholic canon law, in the Decretum Gratiani, stated that "he is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body."[14]


susanmo2000
You are remarkable. Thank for all the fine research you do.
I feel STRONGLY that when Men die in childbirth are they entitled to an opinion re. this matter. So for now, the decision is the woman's and hers alone.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's one woman's heart-wrenching story about abortion. These decisions are never made easily.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/opinion/my-abortion-at-23-weeks.html?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130621&_r=0


No, they aren't. Absolutely heart-wrenching, but something we need to be aware of. Thanks for posting.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Temperatures measured in Berlin during the President's visit from 34*C to 39*C = 93*F to 101*F. Almost never heard of there and no place to escape the heat.


Again in case some missed my posting:
Berlin temp. 93*F to 101*F during the President's speech and no shade or shelter to cool off.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, they aren't. Absolutely heart-wrenching, but something we need to be aware of. Thanks for posting.


Enough of abortion and fetus stimulation. Are you done yet? Pathetic.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Again in case some missed my posting:
> Berlin temp. 93*F to 101*F during the President's speech and no shade or shelter to cool off.


He deserves the heat. Good.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> You can only acknowledge 'dem apples' if you also acknowledge they are humans in utero. To your ilk, what does it matter what they do before then? Until they are born they are only some globule of stuff. You can't have it both ways.
> 
> Also, you further expound on your initial statement by hypothesizing that humans "have intercourse at any age". With whom are they having intercourse?


thumper5316
I think that you missed what I responded to. It all started with some wise guy claiming that at 15 weeks a male fetus showed masturbation in Utero. I continued "tongue in cheek". I am pro choice and that should clear things up.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Enough of abortion and fetus stimulation. Are you done yet? Pathetic.


This was a story just to show one woman's experience and how difficult this decision can be.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This was a story just to show one woman's experience and how difficult this decision can be.


The topic here is Obamacare not abortion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why are you so concerned solo?



soloweygirl said:


> Then put all the truth out there. Who are you really? How do you know LTL? Have you taken bits and pieces from the many posts of hers you have read on both forums and just said you know her? Your "claim" to know her means nothing without identifying yourself. Unless you are willing to do that, then stop the childish game you are playing and get some much needed psychological help.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The topic here is Obamacare not abortion.


C'mon, Lukelucy, we've discussed many different topics here. I actually didn't post the story to have a big discussion. It was a well-written piece showing what this couple went through, that's all.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Take your Religion, keep it in your home and church and do not bother me with conversion. If I want to see what has been written in the Bible, I can read. In fact know it quite well and would never give it to a young child since it will scare the living daylight out of it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Again, solo, why are you involved? Why is lovethelake so fearful?



soloweygirl said:


> Oh please with the melodrama. I never said such things. I think she should just reveal herself in stead of hiding behind the forum. To use the forum to spread nasty comments about LTL and make it appear she knows her is just childish. It's time she ends this game and become the adult she should be. What is FF so afraid of? That she has carried the charade too far? That what she has said is actually a lie and you all bought into it? That she doesn't know how to deal with that?
> 
> Come on FF - the party is over, time to take off the mask and reveal yourself. How about it?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> C'mon, Lukelucy, we've discussed many different topics here. I actually didn't post the story to have a big discussion. It was a well-written piece showing what this couple went through, that's all.


Alcameron, I have a little respect for you that I hope will grow in comparison to the others, which I have no respect at all.

It is just getting weary. Can we change the topic?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He deserves the heat. Good.


This topic is about Smoking and Obamacare. Right?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This topic is about Smoking and Obamacare. Right?


Yes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can tell you don't know Huck. No one who knows her would ever call her 'a good little soldier.'



soloweygirl said:


> Keep drinking the Kool Aid. My what a good little soldier you are.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Alcameron, I have a little respect for you that I hope will grow in comparison to the others, which I have no respect at all.
> 
> It is just getting weary. Can we change the topic?


Yes, go ahead, change it. Anyone who wants to can read the opinion piece.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes, go ahead, change it. Anyone who wants to can read the opinion piece.


I am going to knit a bit and go to bed. I'm done for the night here. Thanks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

blah blah



soloweygirl said:


> Doubtful. People always come out to see the Pope, rain, shine, blistering heat, etc. The Pope will always be popular. Obama, not so much as is evident by the lack of people attending his speech. The heat was an excuse, nothing more, no matter how Chris Matthews wants to spin it. The bullet proof glass is also not an excuse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Here's one woman's heart-wrenching story about abortion. These decisions are never made easily.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/opinion/my-abortion-at-23-weeks.html?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130621&_r=0


alcameron
Thank you. This is just one of many heart breaking stories.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For crying out loud, lucy, no one clubbed the Queen....and the whole subject is only an excuse when you don't have anything real to say.



Lukelucy said:


> No. That is not what I am talking about. Not a harmless gesture.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> For crying out loud, lucy, no one clubbed the Queen....and the whole subject is only an excuse when you don't have anything real to say.


Damemary, no it is not an excuse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Enough of abortion and fetus stimulation. Are you done yet? Pathetic.


susanmos2000
As long as some clown Republican male comes up with this kind of crap we need to keep posting it. We must keep it in the limelight for as unpleasant as it is. These guys are trying to mess with our rights and those of our daughters. Can't let that happen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Freedom Fries, I would urge you not to reveal yourself in person to LTL.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmo2000
> You are remarkable. Thank for all the fine research you do.
> I feel STRONGLY that when Men die in childbirth are they entitled to an opinion re. this matter. So for now, the decision is the woman's and hers alone.


Thanks Huck. And thanks be to the Internet--it makes refuting the conservative junk that's posted a heck of a lot easier!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> He deserves the heat. Good.


Lukelucy
You just cannot keep your word and therefore the deal is off. Your Christian kindness is overwhelming.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No, my dear, you are confusing Vatican teaching from the belief of the individual person. You are confusing the eyes of the church and the hearts of the faithful. I assume your level of knowledge of the Unitarian Church is also based on what you think you know.



lovethelake said:


> WRONG, not on the issue of abortion. If the fetus dies as a result of saving the mother's life (tubal pregnancy), the Church does consider that a mortal sin. Any other reason, it is murder in the eyes of the Church. Maybe you are confused with the Unitarian Church


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> The topic here is Obamacare not abortion.


Lukelucy
and who entered Religon into the conversation? Best not to get wise and get caught.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Why are you so concerned solo?


damemary
soloweygirl wonders whom she hooked up with. Got to love it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> C'mon, Lukelucy, we've discussed many different topics here. I actually didn't post the story to have a big discussion. It was a well-written piece showing what this couple went through, that's all.


alcameron
Some people just do not want to face reality that's all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lucklucy: Enough of abortion and fetus stimulation. Are you done yet? Pathetic.


Huckleberry said:


> Huckleberry: susanmos2000
> As long as some clown Republican male comes up with this kind of crap we need to keep posting it. We must keep it in the limelight for as unpleasant as it is. These guys are trying to mess with our rights and those of our daughters. Can't let that happen.


I agree with you--LL is the one who wants to close the topic. I can understand why she finds it embarrassing--the GOP should hang its head in shame--but he did say it, and it can't be swept under the rug.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I can tell you don't know Huck. No one who knows her would ever call her 'a good little soldier.'


damemary
You tell 'em. As I have shown, I came in Peace and the swords were aimed at me immediately because I was a newbie and did not toot into their horn. So I armed myself with all I can give and here I am. Fact is that those who start a War don't always win and some learn slower than others.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> blah blah


I am chiming in damemary.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe that few, if any, abortions are chosen by whim. I appreciate this candid story.



alcameron said:


> This was a story just to show one woman's experience and how difficult this decision can be.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Says who????



Lukelucy said:


> The topic here is Obamacare not abortion.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> No, my dear, you are confusing Vatican teaching from the belief of the individual person. You are confusing the eyes of the church and the hearts of the faithful. I assume your level of knowledge of the Unitarian Church is also based on what you think you know.


From the Vatican. ( If you are a Catholic, then you follow the Church's teachings. It is not a salad bar to pick and choose which teachings you agree with and leave the rest. ) http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

ABORTION:
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83

"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84

"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.

Think the Church's view is clear. If you are a Catholic this is what you believe.

also from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_abortion


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I would add that the rightie tighties don't know who they're messing with.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> You tell 'em. As I have shown, I came in Peace and the swords were aimed at me immediately because I was a newbie and did not toot into their horn. So I armed myself with all I can give and here I am. Fact is that those who start a War don't always win and some learn slower than others.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not all Catholics believe in all Church teaching. For example, did you know that Catholics use birth control in the same percentages that Protestants do? Go live in your fantasy world and be quiet. You are entitled to your views, but you're not converting anyone.



lovethelake said:


> From the Vatican. ( If you are a Catholic, then you follow the Church's teachings. It is not a salad bar to pick and choose which teachings you agree with and leave the rest. ) http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm
> 
> ABORTION:
> 2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Interesting poll results on how American Catholics view a variety of subjects:

http://www.pewresearch.org/key-data-points/u-s-catholics-key-data-from-pew-research/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Interesting poll results on how American Catholics view a variety of subjects:
> 
> http://www.pewresearch.org/key-data-points/u-s-catholics-key-data-from-pew-research/


Really fascinating, and about what I expected. It's always seemed odd to me that Catholics are expected to toe the line in regards to the Church's position on abortion...but no one says a thing when Catholics speak out in favor of the death penalty--something the Church strongly opposes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really fascinating, and about what I expected. It's always seemed odd to me that Catholics are expected to toe the line in regards to the Church's position on abortion...but no one says a thing when Catholics speak out in favor of the death penalty--something the Church strongly opposes.


There are other issues that they don't speak out strongly against, but their chosen issues seem to be gay marriage, abortion, and birth control. Too bad the Nuns on the Bus can't be priests. And, of course, I'm sure there are members of the hierarchy who don't dare speak their minds.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Not all Catholics believe in all Church teaching. For example, did you know that Catholics use birth control in the same percentages that Protestants do? Go live in your fantasy world and be quiet. You are entitled to your views, but you're not converting anyone.


damemary
High time that women get a voice in the Catholic Church, no more cleaning the Bedpans instead occupying the pulpit and the boys become the caretakers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Interesting poll results on how American Catholics view a variety of subjects:
> 
> http://www.pewresearch.org/key-data-points/u-s-catholics-key-data-from-pew-research/


alcameron
Very interesting, Thank you.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Lucklucy: Enough of abortion and fetus stimulation. Are you done yet? Pathetic.
> 
> I agree with you--LL is the one who wants to close the topic. I can understand why she finds it embarrassing--the GOP should hang its head in shame--but he did say it, and it can't be swept under the rug.


I do not find it embarassing one single bit. I also find it pathetic that you would even suggest that I was. Mind reader? You are way off in your thinking - as in everything else that you write.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not find it embarassing one single bit. I also find it pathetic that you would even suggest that I was. Mind reader? You are way off in your thinking - as in everything else that you write.


Then why do you keep asking people to talk about something else? I remember doing the same thing a few months back when you were going on and on about whether Stevens had been raped--some conversations are not pleasant, but that one gave you no qualms.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps now, but the Catholic church hasn't always come out so strongly against abortion:
> 
> Saint Anselm of Canterbury (10331109) said that "no human intellect accepts the view that an infant has the rational soul from the moment of conception".[14] Abortion was viewed as a sin, but not as murder, until the embryo was animated by a human soul.[17] A few decades after Anselm's death, Catholic canon law, in the Decretum Gratiani, stated that "he is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body."[14]


Thanks for that information, Susan. You can still go from one parish to another and get differing opinions on this matter depending on the priest you ask and the diocese you are in. Obviously, the church takes a position on this but when you speak one on one with priests and nuns they understand the church's position can be far different than what goes on in people's lives. It is a standard to be upheld and not always the reality. Only God knows if someone's actions are a "sin" or not but there are a lot of judgmental people who like to make other people's private lives their concern and it is not.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Then why do you keep asking people to talk about something else? I remember doing the same thing a few months back when you were going on and on about whether Stevens had been raped--some conversations are not pleasant, but that one gave you no qualms.


Lukelucy
Yes why do you want to change the subject? Your guys looking too stupid? Well, they are and the people need to know that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's one woman's heart-wrenching story about abortion. These decisions are never made easily.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/opinion/my-abortion-at-23-weeks.html?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130621&_r=0


Thanks for the link, Andrea. I agree the government has no business involved in this. It is a decision only the woman involved has the right to make and it is between her and God and no one else. I don't believe women ever make this decision easily.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh, what a lovely evening The folks are swanning about, back and forth between S&O and D&P gently dropping rude and inflammatory remarks on each other with boundless generosity. Bazinga, kids. Maybe tomorrow will be different.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Think the Church's view is clear. If you are a Catholic this is what you believe. 


lakelady this is what you believe and you certainly don't speak for all Catholics, only yourself. You would be amazed what other Catholics believe. God gave us brains to sort through what makes sense and what doesn't. Just because a group of men get together and make some rules for women it does not mean this is God's word. Men are fallible and they can make mistakes. It is also an excellent way to keep women in their place in the church and that is very sad. Women are just as important as men in the eyes of God and this institution refuses to treat women as equals. I feel confident that if men could conceive there would be an entirely different set of rules. The church is going to have to make some changes if it expects to survive. They are losing members and not attracting a lot of new ones.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really fascinating, and about what I expected. It's always seemed odd to me that Catholics are expected to toe the line in regards to the Church's position on abortion...but no one says a thing when Catholics speak out in favor of the death penalty--something the Church strongly opposes.


Yes, it is interesting that we must be born but once we are here it's OK for someone to kill you. It doesn't make sense.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> There are other issues that they don't speak out strongly against, but their chosen issues seem to be gay marriage, abortion, and birth control. Too bad the Nuns on the Bus can't be priests. And, of course, I'm sure there are members of the hierarchy who don't dare speak their minds.


The male hierarchy is very good at maintaining and protecting itself and has had hundreds of years to institutionalize the good along with the bad that it has done over the years. They are about the last holdout as far as ordaining women and one would think with the shortage of priests it would be a no brainer. Nuns are every bit as well educated as priests and yet they remain as second class. I do hope it changes.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, Ladies. I'm off to bed.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Good night Cheeky!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please tell us more about your thoughts. As you pointed out, the rest of us are not mind readers.



Lukelucy said:


> I do not find it embarassing one single bit. I also find it pathetic that you would even suggest that I was. Mind reader? You are way off in your thinking - as in everything else that you write.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on Roman Catholic teachings. There has been such a divide between Roman and American Catholic thought that I wonder if a schism may be coming.

I'm tired tonight too. Bazinga til morning. Sweet dreams.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not all Catholics believe in all Church teaching. For example, did you know that Catholics use birth control in the same percentages that Protestants do? Go live in your fantasy world and be quiet. You are entitled to your views, but you're not converting anyone.


Yes, I do know that. Birth control is a separate issue. Most forms of birth control prevent conception, not terminate it, so no child has been conceived. That is why the Church is against the new Morning After Pill and HSS also.

You inaccurately assume I was trying to convert, but that is not true. I just was correcting your statement with the Church's doctrine.

Again with the bullying type statements, telling people what to do. I would hope that in the future you would have enough self control to stop telling people what to do, what to say or where to go. But I fear that is not within your power.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, it is interesting that we must be born but once we are here it's OK for someone to kill you. It doesn't make sense.


 If you follow the link I posted from the Vatican it also states the Church's position on the Death Penalty. I will admit to wrestling with that teaching. Where I get in a quandary with the Death Penalty is that the person that receives that sentence knowingly made a choice to murder a person. I do believe that life begins at conception. Therefore, a child is not a choice nor did anything wrong to deserve the Death Penalty. So, even though I might believe the person deserves to die, I acknowledge it is not my decision to make.

But then again, the same could be said about a person believing in abortion but apposes the Death Penalty.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Birth control and abortion are both mortal sins in the Catholic Church. And American Catholics believe quite differently than their church teaches.

I don't tell people what to do....except to think and mind their own souls instead of judging everyone else.

I do tell people where to go on occasion.



lovethelake said:


> Yes, I do know that. Birth control is a separate issue. Most forms of birth control prevent conception, not terminate it, so no child has been conceived. That is why the Church is against the new Morning After Pill and HSS also.
> 
> You inaccurately assume I was trying to convert, but that is not true. I just was correcting your statement with the Church's doctrine.
> 
> Again with the bullying type statements, telling people what to do. I would hope that in the future you would have enough self control to stop telling people what to do, what to say or where to go. But I fear that is not within your power.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The point is: Not all Catholics believe all tenets of the Church. You can quote Wikipedia all you want and it will not change that fact.

That and the fact that Catholics firmly believe in the division of church and state. What they believe personally is separate from the law of the land.

This last fact is the reason the church gets frustrated with Catholic lawmakers. Even when they are threatened by the Church, they stand their ground.



lovethelake said:


> From the Vatican. ( If you are a Catholic, then you follow the Church's teachings. It is not a salad bar to pick and choose which teachings you agree with and leave the rest. ) http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm
> 
> ABORTION:
> 2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Then why do you keep asking people to talk about something else? I remember doing the same thing a few months back when you were going on and on about whether Stevens had been raped--some conversations are not pleasant, but that one gave you no qualms.


Susan,

You are really off base. I don't know who Stevens is and don't know a thing about a rape. Sorry, wrong person. So, don't blame me for something I know NOTHING about.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some American nuns are quite liberal in their actions and they are regularly threated by the Vatican. This has already happened under Pope Francis.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> Some American nuns are quite liberal in their actions and they are regularly threated by the Vatican. This has already happened under Pope Francis.


Damemary, I don't know about threats from the Vatican, but you are right on the money when you say nuns are liberal. I have worked with them. Wow. What I saw - I cannot write here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm almost afraid to say the word, but in the interest of clarifying an issue. "Stevens" refers to ...whispering...Benghazi.



Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> You are really off base. I don't know who Stevens is and don't know a thing about a rape. Sorry, wrong person. So, don't blame me for something I know NOTHING about.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm almost afraid to say the word, but in the interest of clarifying an issue. "Stevens" refers to ...whispering...Benghazi.


You have the wrong person. Don't blame me. Have not discussed Benghazi.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Some American nuns are quite liberal in their actions and they are regularly threated by the Vatican. This has already happened under Pope Francis.


Pope Benedict assigned an American bishop (can't remember which one) to "watch" the nuns to make sure they "stay in line."


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Pope Benedict assigned an American bishop (can't remember which one) to "watch" the nuns to make sure they "stay in line."


There has always been trouble between priests and nuns. Not surprised about the pope. Some nuns need to stay in line.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There has always been trouble between priests and nuns. Not surprised about the pope. Some nuns need to stay in line.


I don't believe you can say that about all groups of nuns anymore than you can say it about any disparate group. Just my opinion.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Yes why do you want to change the subject? Your guys looking too stupid? Well, they are and the people need to know that.


Hi Huckleberry
I have been looking in.
As I told you, some of the People here are very unkind.
Hang in there and call on me any time. 
Glad to pitch in.
Have a nice day.
Ingried


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't believe you can say that about all groups of nuns anymore than you can say it about any disparate group. Just my opinion.


I have known some nuns that are fabulous. I would do anything for them. Then I have seen the worst as well. Just as with any group - there are good and bad. I guess I am saying that the bad I have seen is very bad. That does not mean all are bad.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's like trying to herd cats. It will keep him busy. I wonder if he feels thrown under the bus?



alcameron said:


> Pope Benedict assigned an American bishop (can't remember which one) to "watch" the nuns to make sure they "stay in line."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some nuns feel compelled to follow their conscience.

Are you a nun?



Lukelucy said:


> There has always been trouble between priests and nuns. Not surprised about the pope. Some nuns need to stay in line.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> Some nuns feel compelled to follow their conscience.
> 
> Are you a nun?


No, I am not a nun. Far from it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/us/vatican-reprimands-us-nuns-group.html?_r=0

Here's a link to the NYT article written last year when this "maverick" group was scolded by the pope.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And they are only bad in your opinion.



Lukelucy said:


> I have known some nuns that are fabulous. I would do anything for them. Then I have seen the worst as well. Just as with any group - there are good and bad. I guess I am saying that the bad I have seen is very bad. That does not mean all are bad.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> And they are only bad in your opinion.


That is not what I am saying. I said before that I have known nuns that were wonderful. Loved them. Then I have seen some terrible things by others. I do not categorize people. I am just saying that a nun may not be the "holiest" person on the planet. I am not generalizing at all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you so much alcameron for providing this link.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.



alcameron said:
 

> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/us/vatican-reprimands-us-nuns-group.html?_r=0
> 
> Here's a link to the NYT article written last year when this "maverick" group was scolded by the pope.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> You are really off base. I don't know who Stevens is and don't know a thing about a rape. Sorry, wrong person. So, don't blame me for something I know NOTHING about.


Of course you do-- _ Ambassador _ Stevens and the whole Benghazi deal. We had a very spirited discussion on what happened to him in his final moments, but the prolonged discussion of sodomy and how many times he may have been raped eventually turned my stomach--finally had to ask you and others to please talk about something else. Remember now?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Bad" is a category. "Holiest" seems like a category to me.



Lukelucy said:


> That is not what I am saying. I said before that I have known nuns that were wonderful. Loved them. Then I have seen some terrible things by others. I do not categorize people. I am just saying that a nun may not be the "holiest" person on the planet. I am not generalizing at all.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course you do-- _ Ambassador _ Stevens and the whole Benghazi deal. We had a very spirited discussion on what happened to him in his final moments, but the prolonged discussion of sodomy and how many times he may have been raped eventually turned my stomach--finally had to ask you and others to please talk about something else. Remember now?


I was not part of that discussion. Please show me where I wrote anything about Stevens and sodomy and rape. You will not find me referring to that ever.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> "Bad" is a category. "Holiest" seems like a category to me.


They are not categories in my mind. How can I be categorizing when I said that there are good and bad (and everything in between)? I am saying that I have seen some things that are not what you would call ethical.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I was not part of that discussion. Please show me where I wrote anything about Stevens and sodomy and rape. You will not find me referring to that ever.


Will do--give me a few minutes to find the relevant posts.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Will do--give me a few minutes to find the relevant posts.


I am waiting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So nice to know you're looking in Ingried. Your thoughts are most welcome.



Ingried said:


> Hi Huckleberry
> I have been looking in.
> As I told you, some of the People here are very unkind.
> Hang in there and call on me any time.
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am waiting.


Actually LL, I owe you an apology. Found the series of posts (March 31) that dealt with Benghazi, and it was Offknit, Country Bumpkins, and Jodi who were indulging in unnecessary and grotesque speculation:

Country Bumkins: What do you mean it didn't happen?

Susanmos2000: *Groan* Can the GOPers PLEASE stop talking about how Stevens was sexually assaulted before he died? There is no proof one way or the other (and frankly I doubt anyone was in the mood for a little nooky in a smoke-filled building that was literally burning to the ground), and it seems incredibly insensitive to Stevens' parents and family to go on and on about his final moments. If it was your son or brother, would you appreciate people going into the lurid details like this?

I was wrong, and I'm sorry.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ingried thank you for your strong support. Even though I had read the threads for a while, never did I think that just being new to it would stir up such ugliness. No wonder newcomers are very rare. I shall make good use of your tips and hints. Keep them coming. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually LL, I owe you an apology. Found the series of posts (March 31) that dealt with Benghazi, and it was Offknit, Country Bumpkins, and Jodi who were indulging in unnecessary and grotesque speculation:
> 
> Country Bumkins: What do you mean it didn't happen?
> 
> ...


susanmow2000
Some of these folks have no respect for the dead either. Christian behavior? Not by a long shot.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually LL, I owe you an apology. Found the series of posts (March 31) that dealt with Benghazi, and it was Offknit, Country Bumpkins, and Jodi who were indulging in unnecessary and grotesque speculation:
> 
> Country Bumkins: What do you mean it didn't happen?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your apology. I hope you will be kinder to me (no matter what my opinion or what I write) in the future.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts
Show us that you have a little Christianity in you and retract your false statements and accusations. Going to confession is not sufficient. You need to address me and not your Pastor/Priest.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thank you for your apology. I hope you will be kinder to me (no matter what my opinion or what I write) in the future.


Doubtless--certainly I'll check more carefully before I take it upon myself to scold someone for their comments. Sorry again!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmow2000
> Some of these folks have no respect for the dead either. Christian behavior? Not by a long shot.


Agree--I'm very glad Benghazi is no longer a "hot" topic--sifting through those posts made me squirm. So much ugly speculation, and so much desire on the conservatives' part to hear all the nasty details about Stevens' last moments. It always made me feel awful for his parents--bad enough that their son died, but how dreadful to listen to all the intrusive and shameless speculation.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree--I'm very glad Benghazi is no longer a "hot" topic--sifting through those posts made me squirm. So much ugly speculation, and so much desire on the conservatives' part to hear all the nasty details about Stevens' last moments. It always made me feel awful for his parents--bad enough that their son died, but how dreadful to listen to all the intrusive and shameless speculation.


susanmos2000
Makes one wonder what kind of books they prefer to read.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I just posted this over on D&P, and I think some of you might like to have it here, too.

Wacky Cake (AKA Crazy Cake, War Cake)

This is a recipe from WWII that doesnt use any dairy products is absolutely great, at least according to my family.

1 ½ cups flour
1 cup sugar
1 tsp baking soda
6 Tbs cocoa powder
6 Tbs vegetable oil
1 tsp vanilla
1 tsp vinegar
1 cup water

Preheat oven to 350. Mix all the dry ingredients together. Make three holes in the dry mixture, one big enough for the oil and 2 big enough for the vanilla and vinegar. Add oil, vanilla and vinegar. Add water right after that. Mix until blended (no beating required.) Bake in greased 9pan for 30-40 mins or until toothpick inserted in center comes out clean. Let cool and turn out onto a plate. Frost with whatever frosting you like. :
Tasty Variations:

Sprinkle chopped nuts on top of raw batter.
Glaze cake with an orange or chocolate glaze (some cocoa, sugar and water mixed together in a saucepan)

This cake is moist and keeps well. Its great for cupcakes, too, or any shape you like. Makes a nice cake (in a 9x13pan) for a little jelly roll or rolled up with whipped cream.

My mother would ask us what kind of cake we wanted and wed always yell Wacky Cake!!! She got very tired of this but made it anyway. She still has the recipe one of my aunts sent her 63 years ago.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Some nuns feel compelled to follow their conscience.
> 
> Then their consciences should have them leave the Church. Though I can see and understand some sisters wanting a more prominent place in the Church, I can think of no nun that would condone abortion. If she does, she has broken her vows.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> No. That is not what I am talking about. Not a harmless gesture.


To me it was an instinctive action. Husbands/gentlemen do it with the wives/women, Mothers do it with their children, it's done with the elderly, I even do it. I know it was done to the Queen, but I do not think with any disrespect. That's just the way I see it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I agree. They don't restrain themselves but come here and say very unpleasant, personal things to people they disagree with. Many of us have said we "know" someone here because we've read what they posted and had some back-and-forth exchanges. It's easy to forget that we really don't know each other as personally as some like to think, such as soloweygirl's idea that you, FF, know LTL better than any of us know each other.
> 
> If you have had a dozen other user names, it really doesn't mean anything. You're still whoever you are or were, and the nosey parkers seem to be trying to stir something up just for the sake of it. Your acceptance here proves a great deal that makes soloweygirl's position very shaky. Hang in there, FF.


It is not my idea that FF knows "LTL any better than any of us know each other". I said that FF has read all of LTL's posts, on here and the other forum, and from that limited knowledge of LTL, FF implies that she knows LTL. FF is having a feeble go at a mind game. That is all it is. The fact that she won't identify herself speaks volumes.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Again, solo, why are you involved? Why is lovethelake so fearful?


As far as I know, LTL is not fearful. Especially of FF. FF had her fun with her little game and I just asked her to identify herself. FF won't do it because it was all BS.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> To me it was an instinctive action. Husbands/gentlemen do it with the wives/women, Mothers do it with their children, it's done with the elderly, I even do it. I know it was done to the Queen, but I do not think with any disrespect. That's just the way I see it.


soloweygirl
I heartyly agree with you. Nothing wong with a tender touch and the Queen probably needs them more than anyone-else.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Freedom Fries, I would urge you not to reveal yourself in person to LTL.


I'll ask you what would FF have to be fearful of from LTL? Why should FF not reveal herself?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It is not my idea that FF knows "LTL any better than any of us know each other". I said that FF has read all of LTL's posts, on here and the other forum, and from that limited knowledge of LTL, FF implies that she knows LTL. FF is having a feeble go at a mind game. That is all it is. The fact that she won't identify herself speaks volumes.


soloweygirl
that FF does not identify herself is smart.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I believe that few, if any, abortions are chosen by whim. I appreciate this candid story.


Then you would be wrong. Many women use abortion as a means of birth control. I went with a friend who had an abortion and heard many of the women at the clinic that day say they have had more than one abortion. They also said that the do not use birth control methods either.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> that FF does not identify herself is smart.


Why?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> damemary said:
> 
> 
> > Some nuns feel compelled to follow their conscience.
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Then you would be wrong. Many women use abortion as a means of birth control. I went with a friend who had an abortion and heard many of the women at the clinic that day say they have had more than one abortion. They also said that the do not use birth control methods either.


soloweygirl
this is one of those invented circulating stories. We will get to read it over and over and over again.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why?


sloweygirl
it is smart.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> this is one of those invented circulating stories. We will get to read it over and over and over again.


Nothing invented here. Real story, real people.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> sloweygirl
> it is smart.


Why?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you think Catholics can, in their consciences, disagree with any of the church teachings and still remain a Catholic? Birth control? Capital punishment? Gay marriage? Can a gay person in a relationship remain a Catholic? Or is just the abortion issue (because it's murder)? I think these are valid questions that would elicit a variety of opinions from different people, and I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything. Just wondering.


Depends on the issue. If the Church wants to go back to women wearing head coverings or saying the Mass only in Greek, and you disagree, don't think that would get you in poor standing with the Church.

Capitol punishment, no, murder

A gay in a sexual relationship and a divorced person (without an annulment) in a sexual relationship are equally in violation of Church Law. Both persons can be in good standing within the Church if they remain celibate.

It is not a matter of opinion, that is Church Law. Either follow the law or go church shopping for something that reflects your belief system. Not arguable, it is what it is.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> To me it was an instinctive action. Husbands/gentlemen do it with the wives/women, Mothers do it with their children, it's done with the elderly, I even do it. I know it was done to the Queen, but I do not think with any disrespect. That's just the way I see it.


She did not do it out of disrespect. She did it out of stupidity and lack of manners. Keep hands off the Queen.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Depends on the issue. If the Church wants to go back to women wearing head coverings or saying the Mass only in Greek, and you disagree, don't think that would get you in poor standing with the Church.
> 
> Capitol punishment, no, murder
> 
> ...


Thank you. What do you do then when you are against abortion, for example, but pro gay marriage? Or pro capital punishment? Are those sins or cause for excommunication and who decides? Does conscience ever play a role?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We did the train across Canada from Toronto to Vancouver. Excellent! Gourmet food and you can get off along the way. We got off at several stops. Lovely trip.

Also recommend train to Tibet. Beautiful ride and when you get to Lhasa you are acclimated to the altitude. Food is just OK but scenery is striking and it's nice to get off of the plane and walk up steps. Wasn't so on a flight there years ago.

Train from London to Paris is good deal.

Trains in the states are expensive.

There is a Canyon train in Mexico on my Bucket List.


alcameron said:


> When I say "short trip" I mean short. It was very comfortable, but all we did was sit back in our seats and enjoy the scenery. Can't tell you much. There's a train trip across Canada that's supposed to be beautiful.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you. What do you do then when you are against abortion, for example, but pro gay marriage? Or pro capital punishment? Are those sins or cause for excommunication and who decides? Does conscience ever play a role?


I follow the teachings of the Church. Nothing more, nothing else. Conscience is about feelings. Feelings are feelings not facts. The fact is that the Catholic Church is not a a cafeteria where you pick and choose what teachings you follow and which you don't.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> He deserves the heat. Good.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> She did not do it out of disrespect. She did it out of stupidity and lack of manners. Keep hands off the Queen.


Lukelucy
what do you know. The Queen can speak for herself quite well. Leave it to her to judge. By the way, she likes our President and his wife very well. Check it out.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I follow the teachings of the Church. Nothing more, nothing else. Conscience is about feelings. Feelings are feelings not facts. The fact is that the Catholic Church is not a a cafeteria where you pick and choose what teachings you follow and which you don't.


lovethelake
tell that to those you forever pick and choose. The pews are full of those. The church is glad that at least they still remain members.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> what do you know. The Queen can speak for herself quite well. Leave it to her to judge. By the way, she likes our President and his wife very well. Check it out.


Do you really believe everything you read. Do you think that they would publicize negativity. Come on. Get real. You'll never know. I can see it now: "Michelle and the Queen of England have a fight!" or "Michelle was rude to the Queen". That would make world news and they would be saying that we are at war with England! Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa.... Oh, stupidity at its worst.

I am laughing so hard.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Do you really believe everything you read. Do you think that they would publicize negativity. Come on. Get real. You'll never know. I can see it now: "Michelle and the Queen of England have a fight!" or "Michelle was rude to the Queen". That would make world news and they would be saying that we are at war with England! Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa.... Oh, stupidity at its worst.
> 
> I am laughing so hard.


Lukelucy
the British Press and NOT printing negative stuff? Gimme a break. They thrive on it. That is their primary function.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> tell that to those you forever pick and choose. The pews are full of those. The church is glad that at least they still remain members.


Huh? you make no sense. Your sentences are incomprehensible and thoughts appear jumbled.

Please stop telling me what to do.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

lucy, I'm laughing too. Do you have any idea of what the British press prints? They practically invented the tabloid industry. They would never ignore a chance to spread rumor.



Lukelucy said:


> Do you really believe everything you read. Do you think that they would publicize negativity. Come on. Get real. You'll never know. I can see it now: "Michelle and the Queen of England have a fight!" or "Michelle was rude to the Queen". That would make world news and they would be saying that we are at war with England! Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa.... Oh, stupidity at its worst.
> 
> I am laughing so hard.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Surely you jest.



lovethelake said:


> Huh? you make no sense. Your sentences are incomprehensible and thoughts appear jumbled.
> 
> Please stop telling me what to do.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And does anyone remember when Aung San Suu Kyi, head of the opposition party of Myanmar and a Nobel laureate met with o? He hugged her Chicago style and showed his disrespect for a woman and especially his stupidity of her family. It just ISN'T done in that culture. Why didn't he bone up before meeting her if he thought he'd give her a hug.


Lukelucy said:


> She did not do it out of disrespect. She did it out of stupidity and lack of manners. Keep hands off the Queen.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm certain the Queen would not offer an opinion of like- not like. What makes you think she "likes" him?


Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> what do you know. The Queen can speak for herself quite well. Leave it to her to judge. By the way, she likes our President and his wife very well. Check it out.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Do you really believe everything you read. Do you think that they would publicize negativity. Come on. Get real. You'll never know. I can see it now: "Michelle and the Queen of England have a fight!" or "Michelle was rude to the Queen". That would make world news and they would be saying that we are at war with England! Haaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa.... Oh, stupidity at its worst.
> 
> I am laughing so hard.


Me too.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And does anyone remember when Aung San Suu Kyi, head of the opposition party of Myanmar and a Nobel laureate met with o? He hugged her Chicago style and showed his disrespect for a woman and especially his stupidity of her family. It just ISN'T done in that culture. Why didn't he bone up before meeting her if he thought he'd give her a hug.


What is this "Chicago style" stuff that you people keep using? Sounds like some kind of racial slur? I can't imagine what a Chicago style hug is and how it differs from other hugs. I've seen it written several times by people who dislike the president and I can't understand what being from Chicago has to do with anything. I've been to Chicago several times and found it to be a wonderful city full of great restaurants, art, and theater.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What is this "Chicago style" stuff that you people keep using? Sounds like some kind of racial slur? I can't imagine what a Chicago style hug is and how it differs from other hugs. I've seen it written several times by people who dislike the president and I can't understand what being from Chicago has to do with anything. I've been to Chicago several times and found it to be a wonderful city full of great restaurants, art, and theater.


Classic liberal knee jerk reaction, play the race card. Absolutely predictable and pathetic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_politics

PS: Daley was White


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Huh? you make no sense. Your sentences are incomprehensible and thoughts appear jumbled.
> 
> Please stop telling me what to do.


lovetheelake
I beg your pardon, I made a mistake, it should read: "tell that to those WHO..................................."


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I'm certain the Queen would not offer an opinion of like- not like. What makes you think she "likes" him?


RUKnitting
Check it out.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> What is this "Chicago style" stuff that you people keep using? Sounds like some kind of racial slur? I can't imagine what a Chicago style hug is and how it differs from other hugs. I've seen it written several times by people who dislike the president and I can't understand what being from Chicago has to do with anything. I've been to Chicago several times and found it to be a wonderful city full of great restaurants, art, and theater.


alcameron
I guess these folks lived there during the Al Capone days. I know LOTS of Chicagoans and they are great People, very successful People and have chosen that City on purpose. We visit there as often as possble because it is a City with a lot of culture.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> And does anyone remember when Aung San Suu Kyi, head of the opposition party of Myanmar and a Nobel laureate met with o? He hugged her Chicago style and showed his disrespect for a woman and especially his stupidity of her family. It just ISN'T done in that culture. Why didn't he bone up before meeting her if he thought he'd give her a hug.


RUKnitting
That's referencing race again in a very ugly fashion. Actually we should be immune to it by now because it just is so much part of their life. It is very hard to shed ingrained racism and bigotry, it will show its ugly face again and again. See Paula Deen.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> the British Press and NOT printing negative stuff? Gimme a break. They thrive on it. That is their primary function.


You are right. The Queen knows protocol. She would not blink an eye as to any wrong doing or bad manners. She would never acknowledge it. She knows what to do - which is to carry on as if nothing happened. She is very smart.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Classic liberal knee jerk reaction, play the race card. Absolutely predictable and pathetic
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago-style_politics
> 
> PS: Daley was White


LTL, I do know what Chicago-style politics means, but I don't know what Chicago-style hugs or Chicago-style anything else means. Would you care to elaborate? Gee, Daley was white. I never woulda' guessed. Duh.
I'm so glad you showed up here to start in with the name-calling, etc. I have been nothing but respectful to you, so your response indicates the classic right-wing knee-jerk reaction, not mine. Why can't you try to be pleasant? Isn't it in your nature? Let me suggest you dig deep into your church teaching to reconcile your behavior.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How could that have skipped my mind? (sarcasm)



RUKnitting said:


> And does anyone remember when Aung San Suu Kyi, head of the opposition party of Myanmar and a Nobel laureate met with o? He hugged her Chicago style and showed his disrespect for a woman and especially his stupidity of her family. It just ISN'T done in that culture. Why didn't he bone up before meeting her if he thought he'd give her a hug.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> How could that have skipped my mind? (sarcasm)


Damemary, if you read the right kind of newspapers (pun intended) you wouldn't have missed it! Try breitbart or the Independent Journal or Christian News.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And watch her trying to pull her foot out of the muck.



Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> That's referencing race again in a very ugly fashion. Actually we should be immune to it by now because it just is so much part of their life. It is very hard to shed ingrained racism and bigotry, it will show its ugly face again and again. See Paula Deen.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Andrea. Now I know how I missed it.



alcameron said:


> Damemary, if you read the right kind of newspapers (pun intended) you wouldn't have missed it! Try breitbart or the Independent Journal or Christian News.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thanks Andrea. Now I know how I missed it.


Bazinga for a very late dinner.
Latergator


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't read the Tabloids you referred to before, for information. Nor do I consider them reputable resources.


Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> Check it out.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We're not talking about Paula Deen. I was speaking of a Nobel Peace Recipient who was violated by a naive and unknowing o. As Americans we should be able to assume a basic level of respect from our president on cultural matters affecting other countries.



Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> That's referencing race again in a very ugly fashion. Actually we should be immune to it by now because it just is so much part of their life. It is very hard to shed ingrained racism and bigotry, it will show its ugly face again and again. See Paula Deen.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Try Chinese TV news.



alcameron said:


> Damemary, if you read the right kind of newspapers (pun intended) you wouldn't have missed it! Try breitbart or the Independent Journal or Christian News.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Nothing invented here. Real story, real people.


I am not buying your story. When people go to a clinic or doctor's office of any kind I have very rarely had a conversation with anyone else in a waiting room and if I did it certainly wasn't to discuss what I was doing there or asking anyone else what they were doing there. That would be extremely rude behavior. I also know enough women who have had abortions to know that most do not tell their own friends and relatives let alone strangers in a waiting room. People are there for personal reasons and don't discuss with others why they are there and why should they? I have been to Planned Parenthood Clinics also and never once chatted with anyone in the waiting room. It's pretty sad when people make up stories like this solowey. I am sure some women may have had more than one abortion but I doubt that there are many. Abortion is a very sad last resort for most women and not done lightly and I doubt many would want to do it again. I have seen the scare tactics of prolife groups and they really do women a disservice by putting a lot of lies out there. I am also a supporter of Planned Parenthood and have seen the nasty people marching out in front of the clinic in St. Paul and calling people names when they didn't even know why a person is going into the clinic. I was a young woman and remember what it was like before Roe vs. Wade and women used to try to abort themselves or go to someone who would perform an illegal abortion. If you had money you could go to California or New York for a legal abortion. I don't ever want this country to go back to those horrible days again.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You have never heard me speak of ANY RELIGION or CHURCH. These assumptions which are rampant among your friend's posts on every subject are one reason you have zero creditability. And always playing the race card is unproductive and merits no attention from anyone.

And I have never been disrespectful to you. Unless showing a difference of opinion is disrespect. When I find the posting ludicrous I chuckle and can't restrain myself. You also might say it is part of my daily requirement of humor for the day. And I am collecting quite an array of case studies. LOL.



alcameron said:


> LTL, I do know what Chicago-style politics means, but I don't know what Chicago-style hugs or Chicago-style anything else means. Would you care to elaborate? Gee, Daley was white. I never woulda' guessed. Duh.
> I'm so glad you showed up here to start in with the name-calling, etc. I have been nothing but respectful to you, so your response indicates the classic right-wing knee-jerk reaction, not mine. Why can't you try to be pleasant? Isn't it in your nature? Let me suggest you dig deep into your church teaching to reconcile your behavior.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't have nice discussions on this thread. You might on LOLL, but not here. How about you start one?


If we do, will you stay out? :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you. What do you do then when you are against abortion, for example, but pro gay marriage? Or pro capital punishment? Are those sins or cause for excommunication and who decides? Does conscience ever play a role?


Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You have never heard me speak of ANY RELIGION or CHURCH. These assumptions which are rampant among your friend's posts on every subject are one reason you have zero creditability. And always playing the race card is unproductive and merits no attention from anyone.
> 
> And I have never been disrespectful to you. Unless showing a difference of opinion is disrespect. When I find the posting ludicrous I chuckle and can't restrain myself. You also might say it is part of my daily requirement of humor for the day. And I am collecting quite an array of case studies. LOL.


I was speaking to LTL, who accused me of playing the race card, among other things. You have never been disrespectful to me, and I didn't say you were.
I was really curious as to why so many people refer to "Chicago-stlyle" when referring to the president. I still don't get it.

LTL is Lovethelake


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Before the phrase "Chicago Style" Politics as coined, the only thing I ever related Chicago Style to was pizza.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Damemary, if you read the right kind of newspapers (pun intended) you wouldn't have missed it! Try breitbart or the Independent Journal or Christian News.


alameron
I thought that Breitbart has joined the worms. What did I miss?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I don't read the Tabloids you referred to before, for information. Nor do I consider them reputable resources.


RUKnitting
are you really talking to me? I NEVER mentioned any tabloids etc.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Try Chinese TV news.


RYKnitting
say what?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am not buying your story. When people go to a clinic or doctor's office of any kind I have very rarely had a conversation with anyone else in a waiting room and if I did it certainly wasn't to discuss what I was doing there or asking anyone else what they were doing there. That would be extremely rude behavior. I also know enough women who have had abortions to know that most do not tell their own friends and relatives let alone strangers in a waiting room. People are there for personal reasons and don't discuss with others why they are there and why should they? I have been to Planned Parenthood Clinics also and never once chatted with anyone in the waiting room. It's pretty sad when people make up stories like this solowey. I am sure some women may have had more than one abortion but I doubt that there are many. Abortion is a very sad last resort for most women and not done lightly and I doubt many would want to do it again. I have seen the scare tactics of prolife groups and they really do women a disservice by putting a lot of lies out there. I am also a supporter of Planned Parenthood and have seen the nasty people marching out in front of the clinic in St. Paul and calling people names when they didn't even know why a person is going into the clinic. I was a young woman and remember what it was like before Roe vs. Wade and women used to try to abort themselves or go to someone who would perform an illegal abortion. If you had money you could go to California or New York for a legal abortion. I don't ever want this country to go back to those horrible days again.


Cheeky Blighter
Thank you for speaking for women in crisis. You are so right, they try to stay as unknown as possible. They would rather crawl into the ground than having a converation with anyone under those circumstances. I have been volunteering at Planned Parenthood for a long time. The waiting rooms are as quiet as a church during services and the staff tries to give the women as much privacy as possible. The story told is an old shoe in need of discarding.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I would think that most ladies in the waiting room would be very quiet and nervous. I can't imagine a group of women trying to "1 up" the others by revealing how many, if any, abortions that they had previously had performed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> You have never heard me speak of ANY RELIGION or CHURCH. These assumptions which are rampant among your friend's posts on every subject are one reason you have zero creditability. And always playing the race card is unproductive and merits no attention from anyone.
> 
> And I have never been disrespectful to you. Unless showing a difference of opinion is disrespect. When I find the posting ludicrous I chuckle and can't restrain myself. You also might say it is part of my daily requirement of humor for the day. And I am collecting quite an array of case studies. LOL.


RUKnitting
nice of you not discussing Religion here. It does not belong here.
It is a much too private matter but some folks just get on their soapbox about it and never shut up and then I need to respond.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bazinga!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I would think that most ladies in the waiting room would be very quiet and nervous. I can't imagine a group of women trying to "1 up" the others by revealing how many, if any, abortions that they had previously had performed.


BrattyPatty
those women reveal NOTHING for fear that someone might know someone they know. Compassion is all they are looking for while being scared to death. Women using abortions as birth control? The most asinine statement anyone can make.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Deliberately causing confusion.



RUKnitting said:


> We're not talking about Paula Deen. I was speaking of a Nobel Peace Recipient who was violated by a naive and unknowing o. As Americans we should be able to assume a basic level of respect from our president on cultural matters affecting other countries.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am not buying your story. When people go to a clinic or doctor's office of any kind I have very rarely had a conversation with anyone else in a waiting room and if I did it certainly wasn't to discuss what I was doing there or asking anyone else what they were doing there. That would be extremely rude behavior. I also know enough women who have had abortions to know that most do not tell their own friends and relatives let alone strangers in a waiting room. People are there for personal reasons and don't discuss with others why they are there and why should they? I have been to Planned Parenthood Clinics also and never once chatted with anyone in the waiting room. It's pretty sad when people make up stories like this solowey. I am sure some women may have had more than one abortion but I doubt that there are many. Abortion is a very sad last resort for most women and not done lightly and I doubt many would want to do it again. I have seen the scare tactics of prolife groups and they really do women a disservice by putting a lot of lies out there. I am also a supporter of Planned Parenthood and have seen the nasty people marching out in front of the clinic in St. Paul and calling people names when they didn't even know why a person is going into the clinic. I was a young woman and remember what it was like before Roe vs. Wade and women used to try to abort themselves or go to someone who would perform an illegal abortion. If you had money you could go to California or New York for a legal abortion. I don't ever want this country to go back to those horrible days again.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

RUK, so you agree with us. Rich.



RUKnitting said:
 

> I don't read the Tabloids you referred to before, for information. Nor do I consider them reputable resources.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah! At last we reach the central point. If we go away from Denim & Pearls, will you stay away from LOLL?



BrattyPatty said:


> If we do, will you stay out? :-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the real question is....who is the real bastard?



BrattyPatty said:


> Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Before the phrase "Chicago Style" Politics as coined, the only thing I ever related Chicago Style to was pizza.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is what happens when they try to act clever.



Huckleberry said:


> RYKnitting
> say what?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Urban Legend. Same old, same old with dubious source.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Thank you for speaking for women in crisis. You are so right, they try to stay as unknown as possible. They would rather crawl into the ground than having a converation with anyone under those circumstances. I have been volunteering at Planned Parenthood for a long time. The waiting rooms are as quiet as a church during services and the staff tries to give the women as much privacy as possible. The story told is an old shoe in need of discarding.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.


This is disgusting!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> those women reveal NOTHING for fear that someone might know someone they know. Compassion is all they are looking for while being scared to death. Women using abortions as birth control? The most asinine statement anyone can make.


There was a lot of silly talk shortly after abortion became legal that it wasn't any more uncomfortable than going to the dentist and women would gaily waltz into the office of their friendly, local abortionist and go off to celebrate after all was done.

There's a lot of nonsense talked about all around this sorry old world by any kind of fool you can imagine, and a bunch you can't even think of because it's too scary.

Does anyone remember "menstrual extraction"? This was a sort of hosing out, or mechanically induced instant menstration that was pweformed before a pregnancy test could predict whether one was actually pregnant.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.


WRONG

In the eyes of the Church she was still married in the eyes of God. When you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony in the Church it is a covenant between you, your spouse and God, not just a civil piece of paper. The Church would prefer you not get a civil divorce, but if you are in danger they want you safe. So what your friend told you is not true. One can be still in good standing in the Church if divorced. Unless this story came from 50 years ago, that would not be said today.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alameron
> I thought that Breitbart has joined the worms. What did I miss?


Respect and class


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Indeed. Many Catholics found themselves divorced from their church when divorced from their spouses. A beginning of the changes of the 20th century. The Catholic Church did not support its members during this chaotic time. No right to receive the sacraments. Ordered to pursue a lengthy and expensive annulment process.



alcameron said:


> This is disgusting!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They always have a theological reason for their actions. It never had to do with supporting the faithful. Catholics were required to attend Mass every Sunday and holy day throughout the year. Many attended daily Mass. Attendance dropped off sharply. A guilt trip and a demand for money was not what people needed. Some would say souls suffered. Others would say eyes were opened.



lovethelake said:


> WRONG
> 
> In the eyes of the Church she was still married in the eyes of God. When you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony in the Church it is a covenant between you, your spouse and God, not just a civil piece of paper. The Church would prefer you not get a civil divorce, but if you are in danger they want you safe. So what your friend told you is not true. One can be still in good standing in the Church if divorced. Unless this story came from 50 years ago, that would not be said today.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Indeed. Many Catholics found themselves divorced from their church when divorced from their spouses. A beginning of the changes of the 20th century. The Catholic Church did not support its members during this chaotic time. No right to receive the sacraments. Ordered to pursue a lengthy and expensive annulment process.


Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.

Have a sparkling day!

Therefore, even by your admission, Bratty's story is way in the past and is not relevant to today. If the story is true and over 50 years old, repeating it without grounding it in the proper time reference is deceitful in my opinion. That is not how the Church treats divorced Catholics today.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Just heard on the news that Snowden is on a plane bound for Russia, and thence to somewhere else, maybe in South America, or maybe Iceland. I'm glad he's left Hong Kong. 

Please don't all jump on me at once for thinking he isn't a traitor.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Just heard on the news that Snowden is on a plane bound for Russia, and thence to somewhere else, maybe in South America, or maybe Iceland. I'm glad he's left Hong Kong.
> 
> Please don't all jump on me at once for thinking he isn't a traitor.


How sad that you think you will be jumped on for stating an opinion.

Personally, I haven't formed an opinion about him yet. Part of me says I am glad that he exposed how our government is spying on us. But the other part of me is horrified that he put many of our people in danger by exposing too much.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Just heard on the news that Snowden is on a plane bound for Russia, and thence to somewhere else, maybe in South America, or maybe Iceland. I'm glad he's left Hong Kong.
> 
> Please don't all jump on me at once for thinking he isn't a traitor.


I certainly wouldn't jump on you for this or anything else! This is a good discussion "opener". I am very much still on the fence about him. I am glad that he has exposed what is going on, but on the other hand, the damage that may have been done is very disconcerting.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How sad that you think you will be jumped on for stating an opinion.
> 
> Personally, I haven't formed an opinion about him yet. Part of me says I am glad that he exposed how our government is spying on us. But the other part of me is horrified that he put many of our people in danger by exposing too much.


Lovethelake,

Exactly how I feel. He is right and wrong at the same time. Unless he is someone seeking attention. One never knows.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> And the real question is....who is the real bastard?


damemary
Leave it to the child molesters to refuse a child communion.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Indeed. Many Catholics found themselves divorced from their church when divorced from their spouses. A beginning of the changes of the 20th century. The Catholic Church did not support its members during this chaotic time. No right to receive the sacraments. Ordered to pursue a lengthy and expensive annulment process.


damemary
Show me the money and you get anything. Nice, very nice.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> There was a lot of silly talk shortly after abortion became legal that it wasn't any more uncomfortable than going to the dentist and women would gaily waltz into the office of their friendly, local abortionist and go off to celebrate after all was done.
> 
> There's a lot of nonsense talked about all around this sorry old world by any kind of fool you can imagine, and a bunch you can't even think of because it's too scary.
> 
> Does anyone remember "menstrual extraction"? This was a sort of hosing out, or mechanically induced instant menstration that was pweformed before a pregnancy test could predict whether one was actually pregnant.


Seattle Soul
Yes, "menstrual extraction" the very common procedure done by catholic Physicians on catholic women. It just sounds so much better than pregancy termination, doesn't it. More expensive as well.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> How sad that you think you will be jumped on for stating an opinion.


 Oh yeah, like that's never happened to me or others around here. There are some professional jumpers of great talent here. You ought to know that all too well as I seem to recall you've been trampled a bit yourself.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Seattle Soul
> Yes, "menstrual extraction" the very common procedure done by catholic Physicians on catholic women. It just sounds so much better than pregancy termination, doesn't it. More expensive as well.


It also could be done without guilt because women who requested it couldn't have a pregnancy test until more time had passed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> How sad that you think you will be jumped on for stating an opinion.
> 
> Personally, I haven't formed an opinion about him yet. Part of me says I am glad that he exposed how our government is spying on us. But the other part of me is horrified that he put many of our people in danger by exposing too much.


lovethelake
putting the life of others in jeopardy and running cowardly is despicable. Perhaps he is spending the rest of his life on the run now or in bad company.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Respect and class


lovethelake
respect for Breitbart? Not even in my next life.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh yeah, like that's never happened to me or others around here. There are some professional jumpers of great talent here. You ought to know that all too well as I seem to recall you've been trampled a bit yourself.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> They always have a theological reason for their actions. It never had to do with supporting the faithful. Catholics were required to attend Mass every Sunday and holy day throughout the year. Many attended daily Mass. Attendance dropped off sharply. A guilt trip and a demand for money was not what people needed. Some would say souls suffered. Others would say eyes were opened.


damemary
some day when Popes will again marry and get divorces as well
a lot will change. It is time they get a dose of real life. It has been too long.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, stuff it. Are you discussing or trying to score points?



lovethelake said:


> Money decides, Al. A friend was abused physically by her husband. She wanted the marriage annulled in the eyes of the Catholic church. She could have an annullment for the low price of $10,000. She ended up divorcing him without the annullment. When it came time for her daughter to make her first communion, the priest told her that since she did not get the annullment, the children were bastards in the eyes of the church even though they were baptized Catholics.
> 
> Have a sparkling day!
> 
> Therefore, even by your admission, Bratty's story is way in the past and is not relevant to today. If the story is true and over 50 years old, repeating it without grounding it in the proper time reference is deceitful in my opinion. That is not how the Church treats divorced Catholics today.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No, he's just a high school drop-out who left his twenty one year old pole dancer behind when he fled to seek his fortune in book deals. SS I'm not criticizing your views. I'm just saying I'm suspicious how he got a top secret security clearance, who's behind it all, and why he's doing it. I just don't see him as a patriot risking all for our freedom. Maybe I'm too cynical.



SeattleSoul said:


> Just heard on the news that Snowden is on a plane bound for Russia, and thence to somewhere else, maybe in South America, or maybe Iceland. I'm glad he's left Hong Kong.
> 
> Please don't all jump on me at once for thinking he isn't a traitor.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But we've had an idea of what's going on when Bush declared the need for more intelligence many years ago. Why is this person risking his career of a few months to expose this? How did he get the job? How did he get top security clearance? Is this a risk for him or an opportunity to make some big money off of book deals? Was he backed by international countries or American politicos? Or is he a naïve patriot standing up for his beliefs? I just find myself getting more cynical, but I'm still listening to everything and trying to keep an open mine.



medusa said:


> I certainly wouldn't jump on you for this or anything else! This is a good discussion "opener". I am very much still on the fence about him. I am glad that he has exposed what is going on, but on the other hand, the damage that may have been done is very disconcerting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why not give us some information on Breitbart for the research lazy? Some people may be thinking of the Maverick family.



Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> respect for Breitbart? Not even in my next life.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think they are looking for wives when they have housekeepers provided.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> some day when Popes will again marry and get divorces as well
> a lot will change. It is time they get a dose of real life. It has been too long.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> But we've had an idea of what's going on when Bush declared the need for more intelligence many years ago. Why is this person risking his career of a few months to expose this? How did he get the job? How did he get top security clearance? Is this a risk for him or an opportunity to make some big money off of book deals? Was he backed by international countries or American politicos? Or is he a naïve patriot standing up for his beliefs? I just find myself getting more cynical, but I'm still listening to everything and trying to keep an open mine.


damemary
After only 3 mos. on the job he knows it all, the High School drop out? Sounds more like a plant and that is scary. Seems more like he feared detection and jumped ship before he was caught and then could not sign book deals. Money for some lifes. No doubt we need to keep an eye on our government but this does not fall into that category.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> WRONG
> 
> In the eyes of the Church she was still married in the eyes of God. When you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony in the Church it is a covenant between you, your spouse and God, not just a civil piece of paper. The Church would prefer you not get a civil divorce, but if you are in danger they want you safe. So what your friend told you is not true. One can be still in good standing in the Church if divorced. Unless this story came from 50 years ago, that would not be said today.


Really , LTL? This happened 3 years ago. I was there when she was told her daughter could not make her first communion.
She wanted the marriage annulled for the reason that she did not want to leave the church. I know all about the Catholic church as I am one myself. So I have to say to you WRONG
AGAIN!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't think they are looking for wives when they have housekeepers provided.


damemary
...but should not their children become legitimate?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> After only 3 mos. on the job he knows it all, the High School drop out? Sounds more like a plant and that is scary. Seems more like he feared detection and jumped ship before he was caught and then could not sign book deals. Money for some lifes. No doubt we need to keep an eye on our government but this does not fall into that category.


I have posted before on Edward Snowden. There is massive coverage here on how we are spied on, and we should know about it. I believe that he has taken a very brave step to expose what the NSA is doing. Here is a link to The Guardian newspaper site:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-what-we-know-nsa


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I forgot to add this link, which is a transcript of his Q&A session online:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really , LTL? This happened 3 years ago. I was there when she was told her daughter could not make her first communion.
> She wanted the marriage annulled for the reason that she did not want to leave the church. I know all about the Catholic church as I am one myself. So I have to say to you WRONG
> AGAIN!


Then before you speak, research Church Law.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_annulment_make_the_children_born_of_the_marriage_illegitimate


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Then before you speak, research Church Law.
> 
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_annulment_make_the_children_born_of_the_marriage_illegitimate


I wouldn't trust wiki answers for church law. $10,000 is a lot of money to buy an annullment. That came from the Bishop who answers to the Cardinal who answers to the council of Cardinals who answer to the Pope.
Did wiki also tell you that the Catholic church is the richest institution in the world? Have you ever seen the poor outside of Vatican City begging for food and coins?
It is also against church law for priests to sexually abuse children. But they do and the church simply reassigns the predators to other parishes until the police catch up with them
No, the church doesn't approve of civil divorce, but some have no choice as in my friend's case. She couldn't afford to pay for the annullment and was denied. Now she is excommunicated and her kids may not receive the rest of the sacremants.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> No, he's just a high school drop-out who left his twenty one year old pole dancer behind when he fled to seek his fortune in book deals. SS I'm not criticizing your views. I'm just saying I'm suspicious how he got a top secret security clearance, who's behind it all, and why he's doing it. I just don't see him as a patriot risking all for our freedom. Maybe I'm too cynical.


I agree, dame. This guy is treasonous. He has put our country and our allies in danger. They are investigating the people who did his background screening. Just heard that he has left Hong Kong and is in Russia now. 
He took an oath to protect the content of the work he was doing and broke that oath. In his mind, maybe he does think he is a patriot. But breaking an oath and leaking NSA info does not
fall in the patriotic category. I have a feeling that he won't live much longer. He will either do himself in, or someone will take him out.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> That's referencing race again in a very ugly fashion. Actually we should be immune to it by now because it just is so much part of their life. It is very hard to shed ingrained racism and bigotry, it will show its ugly face again and again. See Paula Deen.


It's not racial. Obama was showing his ignorance, period. He is supposed to have staff that inform and educate him on these matters. Like it or not, even the President of the US has to follow protocol. They are the ones that have dropped the ball and the Obamas are the ones that look like fools.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Try Chinese TV news.


Or Al Jeezera. Now there is news you can trust. After all, Hillary gets her info from them.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> those women reveal NOTHING for fear that someone might know someone they know. Compassion is all they are looking for while being scared to death. Women using abortions as birth control? The most asinine statement anyone can make.


You certainly are entitled to your opinion. Women do talk about having abortions in the waiting rooms. As I said, it is a real story with real people. You just don't want to admit to the fact that there are women out there that don't think having an abortion is that big a deal.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Ah! At last we reach the central point. If we go away from Denim & Pearls, will you stay away from LOLL?


I don't read LOLL and certainly have not posted on that thread. So yes, I will definitely stay away from LOLL. Now it's your turn to stay away from D&P. By your I mean the collective.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Here I am quoting myself... Yes, I know I need to take a longer look at Snowden.


SeattleSoul said:


> Just heard on the news that Snowden is on a plane bound for Russia, and thence to somewhere else, maybe in South America, or maybe Iceland. I'm glad he's left Hong Kong.
> 
> Please don't all jump on me at once for thinking he isn't a traitor.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really , LTL? This happened 3 years ago. I was there when she was told her daughter could not make her first communion.
> She wanted the marriage annulled for the reason that she did not want to leave the church. I know all about the Catholic church as I am one myself. So I have to say to you WRONG
> AGAIN!


There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


You are correct. Only a fool in this day and age would not report this to the diocese and question it. Someone she told would have told her to do that. Maybe she was not Baptized in the Catholic Church. That could be a reason


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> ...but should not their children become legitimate?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You're Good!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It's not racial. Obama was showing his ignorance, period. He is supposed to have staff that inform and educate him on these matters. Like it or not, even the President of the US has to follow protocol. They are the ones that have dropped the ball and the Obamas are the ones that look like fools.


soloweygirl
Oh really? Not racial? Good try but it isn't working. - Ever attended high ranking political functions? They are actually rather informal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the information Anne. It just doesn't add up completely for me. Keep it coming.



aw9358 said:


> I have posted before on Edward Snowden. There is massive coverage here on how we are spied on, and we should know about it. I believe that he has taken a very brave step to expose what the NSA is doing. Here is a link to The Guardian newspaper site:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-what-we-know-nsa


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How stable and successful was his life? What does he stand to gain from his actions?



aw9358 said:


> I have posted before on Edward Snowden. There is massive coverage here on how we are spied on, and we should know about it. I believe that he has taken a very brave step to expose what the NSA is doing. Here is a link to The Guardian newspaper site:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/11/edward-snowden-what-we-know-nsa


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Church Law is not found in wikilinks.



lovethelake said:


> Then before you speak, research Church Law.
> 
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_annulment_make_the_children_born_of_the_marriage_illegitimate


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You're Good!


damemary
heartbreaking when a person grows up and learns than that his/her father is a high ranking member of the catholic Church. Yes, money was provided but NOTHING ELSE.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you ever heard, "know your enemy.?"



soloweygirl said:


> Or Al Jeezera. Now there is news you can trust. After all, Hillary gets her info from them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You certainly are entitled to your opinion. Women do talk about having abortions in the waiting rooms. As I said, it is a real story with real people. You just don't want to admit to the fact that there are women out there that don't think having an abortion is that big a deal.


soloweygirl
anyone ever wonder why some women hate other women so much that they bear false witness against them? Oh we know it is a real STORY concocted by you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would be willing to poll our group if you will poll all of yours (including the ones who post here regularly. ) Until such an agreement is reached, the status quo will remain.



soloweygirl said:


> I don't read LOLL and certainly have not posted on that thread. So yes, I will definitely stay away from LOLL. Now it's your turn to stay away from D&P. By your I mean the collective.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Post what you find. Either way. Thanks.



SeattleSoul said:


> Here I am quoting myself... Yes, I know I need to take a longer look at Snowden.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I too believe the local priest may be the problem, but I keep in mind how devastating this information would be coming from your priest during a very chaotic and stressful time in her life. A 'management' problem perhaps?



west coast kitty said:


> There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ugh



lovethelake said:


> You are correct. Only a fool in this day and age would not report this to the diocese and question it. Someone she told would have told her to do that. Maybe she was not Baptized in the Catholic Church. That could be a reason


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


west coast kitty
Sounds like a real Hierarchy to me. Why don't these folks ask God, they have a direct line to him? I am sure that God would
NEVER turn away a child nor its parent and for sure not ask for money. Did he not clean out the Temple? Sounds like a lot of business decisions being made in the church rather than looking out for the spritual well-being of the flock.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I would be willing to poll our group if you will poll all of yours (including the ones who post here regularly. ) Until such an agreement is reached, the status quo will remain.


Only problem here is that your side cannot keep their word. I know my side will be more that willing to stay away from LOLL.

What say you ladies on the right. Will you agree to stay away from LOLL? In return they will stay away from D&P. S&O will be fair game.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what caused the real sexual abuse scandal too.



Huckleberry said:


> west coast kitty
> Sounds like a real Hierarchy to me. Why don't these folks ask God, they have a direct line to him? I am sure that God would
> NEVER turn away a child nor its parent and for sure not ask for money. Did he not clean out the Temple? Sounds like a lot of business decisions being made in the church rather than looking out for the spritual well-being of the flock.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think after 1700 pages of rambling, Smoking and Obamacare should be closed.



soloweygirl said:


> Only problem here is that your side cannot keep their word. I know my side will be more that willing to stay away from LOLL.
> 
> What say you ladies on the right. Will you agree to stay away from LOLL? In return they will stay away from D&P. S&O will be fair game.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think after 1700 pages of rambling, Smoking and Obamacare should be closed.


Since you did not start it, and LL still posts, maybe it would be proper for her to make that request. All you have to do is not post, and you won't be subjected to ramblings.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really , LTL? This happened 3 years ago. I was there when she was told her daughter could not make her first communion.
> She wanted the marriage annulled for the reason that she did not want to leave the church. I know all about the Catholic church as I am one myself. So I have to say to you WRONG
> AGAIN!


Priests are human (don't we know it) and this one did not act mercifully with this family. Where is the compassion and forgiveness that should have been offered to these people? Yes, I suppose she could have reported the priest to a higher authority, but I see this as a failure on the part of that particular priest. Incidents like this are turning people away from the church in droves. This woman will probably take her kids and move to another church where she might even receive some acceptance and counseling.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> west coast kitty
> Sounds like a real Hierarchy to me. Why don't these folks ask God, they have a direct line to him? I am sure that God would
> NEVER turn away a child nor its parent and for sure not ask for money. Did he not clean out the Temple? Sounds like a lot of business decisions being made in the church rather than looking out for the spritual well-being of the flock.


Definitely a hierarchy - just like any other large organization including government. Membership is not compulsory, people have a choice in joining, staying or leaving. Just like any other organization, the Church has its rules and procedures and if people aren't comfortable with them, they are free to leave. They can also work on parish or diocese councils and committees to influence decisions that aren't part of the core doctrine. IMO it is hypocritical to join an organization and then condemn their practices.

You can also ask God for guidance and inspiration at any time and anywhere


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You are correct. Only a fool in this day and age would not report this to the diocese and question it. Someone she told would have told her to do that. Maybe she was not Baptized in the Catholic Church. That could be a reason


Only a fool in this day and age would not report this??? You and that priest are exhibiting little compassion for this woman and her children. It sounds to me that she was going through a very difficult time and deserves to be treated better by the priest and not be thought of as a fool by a fellow Catholic.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Priests are human (don't we know it) and this one did not act mercifully with this family. Where is the compassion and forgiveness that should have been offered to these people? Yes, I suppose she could have reported the priest to a higher authority, but I see this as a failure on the part of that particular priest. Incidents like this are turning people away from the church in droves. This woman will probably take her kids and move to another church where she might even receive some acceptance and counseling.


It might well be a failing on the part of this priest - as you said they are human and make mistakes. The priest that married dh and me had quite a reputation for being arrogant and he eventually left the priesthood. But it could also be that the woman in her anger and frustration challenged core Church teaching which left the priest unable to provide sacraments. There isn't enough information to use this as an example either way.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Only a fool in this day and age would not report this??? You and that priest are exhibiting little compassion for this woman and her children. It sounds to me that she was going through a very difficult time and deserves to be treated better by the priest and not be thought of as a fool by a fellow Catholic.


If maintaining her faith was important to her and she felt she and her children were wrongly prevented from participating in the Church's sacraments it would be rather unusual not to follow any recourse available to her. The priest might have been compassionate but unable to give her what she wanted


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll present it.



lovethelake said:


> Since you did not start it, and LL still posts, maybe it would be proper for her to make that request. All you have to do is not post, and you won't be subjected to ramblings.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In the Roman Catholic Church all edicts come from above with divine guidance presumed. Take it or leave it. And they do leave in droves. The church depends on an increasing birth rate.



west coast kitty said:


> Definitely a hierarchy - just like any other large organization including government. Membership is not compulsory, people have a choice in joining, staying or leaving. Just like any other organization, the Church has its rules and procedures and if people aren't comfortable with them, they are free to leave. They can also work on parish or diocese councils and committees to influence decisions that aren't part of the core doctrine. IMO it is hypocritical to join an organization and then condemn their practices.
> 
> You can also ask God for guidance and inspiration at any time and anywhere


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Only a fool in this day and age would not report this??? You and that priest are exhibiting little compassion for this woman and her children. It sounds to me that she was going through a very difficult time and deserves to be treated better by the priest and not be thought of as a fool by a fellow Catholic.


I think you meant to finish the last sentence, "not be thought of as a fool by a fool."


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Present all you want, but here you still keep rambling on this thread adding to the pages. Pretty hypocritical of you in my opinion.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> If maintaining her faith was important to her and she felt she and her children were wrongly prevented from participating in the Church's sacraments it would be rather unusual not to follow any recourse available to her. The priest might have been compassionate but unable to give her what she wanted


Yes, we can give the priest the benefit of the doubt, but to tell her that the kids are bastards in the eyes of the church?? I prefer to think of a loving God that accepts and forgives. The children are innocents, and although we don't know the inner workings of a marriage, it sounds as if the mother suffered at the hands of her husband and should also be accepted with compassion. Maybe rigid adherence to the laws of the church isn't always what's best.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you better find someone else to present. I'm not interested any longer.



lovethelake said:


> Present all you want, but here you still keep rambling on this thread adding to the pages. Pretty hypocritical of you in my opinion.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Only problem here is that your side cannot keep their word. I know my side will be more that willing to stay away from LOLL.
> 
> What say you ladies on the right. Will you agree to stay away from LOLL? In return they will stay away from D&P. S&O will be fair game.


Haven't said a word on there and never plan to.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Haven't said a word on there and never plan to.


And I avoid denim & pearls or Prada--whatever it is. But we have to remember that anyone can post anywhere on a public forum.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Obamacare is the glitch.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Haven't said a word on there and never plan to.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It appears that the idea is unenforceable. Personally, I don't think there is any point in discussing it further.



alcameron said:


> And I avoid denim & pearls or Prada--whatever it is. But we have to remember that anyone can post anywhere on a public forum.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> Obamacare is the glitch.


What do you mean Obamacare is the glitch? It is a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And I avoid denim & pearls or Prada--whatever it is. But we have to remember that anyone can post anywhere on a public forum.


I know you , Gw and Patty have never butted in. Thanks. But is very rude when someone comes just to call names and argue. No one minds if they were being polite and just talking but it doesn't work that way for some.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> What do you mean Obamacare is the glitch? It is a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America.


I think she's just referring to the thread.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think she's just referring to the thread.


Still am confused.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But you and your minions don't seem to be able to stay away.



Lukelucy said:


> What do you mean Obamacare is the glitch? It is a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Still am confused.


Maybe I'm confused, but I think she meant that this thread is the one in which we have a "glitch" of running into each other and causing problems. She'll have to explain, but that's how I took it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Maybe I'm confused, but I think she meant that this thread is the one in which we have a "glitch" of running into each other and causing problems. She'll have to explain, but that's how I took it.


Thanks.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> But you and your minions don't seem to be able to stay away.


I think you need to take lessons on how to be polite. Or find a shrink and take out your anger problems there. Here is not the place.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right, of course. Seems there is no way to avoid it that I can see.



alcameron said:


> Maybe I'm confused, but I think she meant that this thread is the one in which we have a "glitch" of running into each other and causing problems. She'll have to explain, but that's how I took it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America." Who needs to learn to be civil? You reap what you sow.



Lukelucy said:


> I think you need to take lessons on how to be polite. Or find a shrink and take out your anger problems there. Here is not the place.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bazinga, for now, ladies. I'm going to knit for awhile.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> "a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America." Who needs to learn to be civil? You reap what you sow.


That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I only got personal when you insulted me. Nastiness is catchy it seems. Do not criticize my opinions.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And I avoid denim & pearls or Prada--whatever it is. But we have to remember that anyone can post anywhere on a public forum.


Country I think you were just threatened


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> "a huge mistake, problem, ruination of America." Who needs to learn to be civil? You reap what you sow.


Lukelucy, dame "presented' that your thread should be closed because she thinks this thread rambles too much. But still she continues to post. hilarious


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Country I think you were just threatened


Bumpkins was not threatened. Don't start trouble where there is none.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Quite a stretch even for you.



lovethelake said:


> Country I think you were just threatened


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Yes, we can give the priest the benefit of the doubt, but to tell her that the kids are bastards in the eyes of the church?? I prefer to think of a loving God that accepts and forgives. The children are innocents, and although we don't know the inner workings of a marriage, it sounds as if the mother suffered at the hands of her husband and should also be accepted with compassion. Maybe rigid adherence to the laws of the church isn't always what's best.


If that's what he said then he was not only lacking in compassion and understanding - he was also completely wrong, because that is not the Church's teaching. Corrective action can't be taken if he isn't reported to the Bishop


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


There is nothing else going on with this story. The Bishop was the one who said the annulment would cost $10,000. The children will not receive their sacraments. She was told by the Parish priest that because she is divorced that the children are bastards in the eyes of the church. She herself can attend mass with the children, but she may not receive communion, nor may her children.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Still rambling again, dame?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Still rambling again, dame?


No, she is offline. Your grammar is atrociuos! "Still rambling again?" tsk tsk. And you pick on the First Lady.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And I avoid denim & pearls or Prada--whatever it is. But we have to remember that anyone can post anywhere on a public forum.


damemary
I was initially willing to sign up to escape to just certain threads but I have changed my mind. I like the freedom to roam.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Country I think you were just threatened


lovethalake
Say what?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Country I think you were just threatened


What in the world are you talking about? You have a very big chip on your shoulder and/or a paranoia problem.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Lukelucy, dame "presented' that your thread should be closed because she thinks this thread rambles too much. But still she continues to post. hilarious


They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Country I think you were just threatened


lovethelake
say what?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


Lukelucy
you may want to borrow some Guillotines and sever the heads of the devils. Oh I forgot, those Guillotines have been imaginary.
What a story that has been.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


I found this online because I wanted to learn more. Perhaps it might help.

http://www.upworthy.com/bam-nurses-explain-obamacare-in-90-seconds-2


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


From your lips to God's ears.

But they won't. They enjoy seeing their fake face avatars over and over again while they ramble away.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Whatever are you saying? This just looks like name calling out of the blue. If you are referring to something specific, please say so. If not, say nothing at all.



lovethelake said:


> Still rambling again, dame?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think this is a specific example of ltl just rambling.



Huckleberry said:


> lovethalake
> Say what?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But here you are on page 1644. And I'm here too and several of my dear friends. Isn't it lovely?



Lukelucy said:


> They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Friends stop by Denim & Pearls. They are saying I don't have any friends. As a 'reward' see 6/22 page 91 CB. Did you know the US gov is stocking up on guillotines? TBBC


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethalake
> Say what?


Talk about a poorly constructed sentence--that is one!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm home so give me a big welcome!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think after 1700 pages of rambling, Smoking and Obamacare should be closed.


Page 41, yet still she rambles on and on and on adding to the pages.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm home so give me a big welcome!


HELLO HELLO HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO, glad you are back

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I found this online because I wanted to learn more. Perhaps it might help.
> 
> http://www.upworthy.com/bam-nurses-explain-obamacare-in-90-seconds-2


aw9358
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Time that all of our Citizens have access to affordable Health Care as well as preventive Health Care. A perfect plan it is not yet but a far cry from what we have NOT had. Working on a few changes beneficial to the Patients. All beginnings are hard. Thank you again. Huck.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> From your lips to God's ears.
> 
> But they won't. They enjoy seeing their fake face avatars over and over again while they ramble away.


lovethelake
We see that the sun is setting on you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> From your lips to God's ears.
> 
> But they won't. They enjoy seeing their fake face avatars over and over again while they ramble away.


Fake face avatars, LOL. Is ramble your word for the day, or just a lack for a better one?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Friends stop by Denim & Pearls. They are saying I don't have any friends. As a 'reward' see 6/22 page 91 CB. Did you know the US gov is stocking up on guillotines? TBBC


damemary
oh those Guillotines. How come you, I and our friends will never have to worry about them? We must be very special. 
What a relief it is.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Talk about a poorly constructed sentence--that is one!


Janeway.
Say what? Looks fine to us.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> From your lips to God's ears.
> 
> But they won't. They enjoy seeing their fake face avatars over and over again while they ramble away.


lovethelake
Trying to please you. 
So you did not like fake faces on our avatars - my Bear's feelings are hurt, I will comfort him - - so I replace it with some of my artwork depicting a live model.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Fake face avatars, LOL. Is ramble your word for the day, or just a lack for a better one?


Bratty Patty
Mine no longer is fake (bear). A real person now. Enjoy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I just don't like all that gore on my pavement.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> oh those Guillotines. How come you, I and our friends will never have to worry about them? We must be very special.
> What a relief it is.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Mine no longer is fake (bear). A real person now. Enjoy.


Love it, Huck!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, she is offline. Your grammar is atrociuos! "Still rambling again?" tsk tsk. And you pick on the First Lady.


Bratty Patty
I like your new Avatar. I once tried to knit a Pullover with inserts as her top shows, it was a total failure.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Friends stop by Denim & Pearls. They are saying I don't have any friends. As a 'reward' see 6/22 page 91 CB. Did you know the US gov is stocking up on guillotines? TBBC


damemary
short of friends you certainly are not and will never be.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm home so give me a big welcome!


WELCOME! JANEWAY!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> HELLO HELLO HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO, glad you are back
> 
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Mine no longer is fake (bear). A real person now. Enjoy.


Beautiful sketch, Huck! I wish I had some talent!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> I like your new Avatar. I once tried to knit a Pullover with inserts as her top shows, it was a total failure.


I have been told by many that she is my doppleganger. I just lover her music and acting. Such a cutie.
I wonder if you could weave I cords and sew them in?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Beautiful sketch, Huck! I wish I had some talent!


Me too, al. I can't draw a straight line with a ruler!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Beautiful sketch, Huck! I wish I had some talent!


alcameron
I know that you do as well. Perhaps not drawing or painting but I know you have others.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have been told by many that she is my doppleganger. I just lover her music and acting. Such a cutie.
> I wonder if you could weave I cords and sew them in?


Bratty Patty
Gorgeous you are. Yes you could use I-cords. I have to look, I made one a long time ago and used I-cord after totally messing up the first one. I will check if I can find a picture of it. I only had to sew in at one end since I started the I-cord attached to the piece. You could also attach the I-cord with pretty buttons at both ends.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Bazinga, everybody. it's still early but i'm tired. See you tomorrow.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have been told by many that she is my doppleganger. I just lover her music and acting. Such a cutie.
> I wonder if you could weave I cords and sew them in?


BrattyPatty
Is that Reba McIntyre? I am not familiar with singers in that Category and I am just guessing.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really , LTL? This happened 3 years ago. I was there when she was told her daughter could not make her first communion.
> She wanted the marriage annulled for the reason that she did not want to leave the church. I know all about the Catholic church as I am one myself. So I have to say to you WRONG
> AGAIN!


I don't know what Catholic church Lakelady goes to but it certainly isn't the one I am familiar with. I have seen different priests handle identical "situations" differently from one parish to the next. It depends a lot on the individual priest. I think some people deceive themselves into believing what suits them and feels quite confident in telling all others all they need to know about the Church. It's very presumptuous for lakelady to tell everyone else what does and does not go on among Catholic clergy and laity. We know what we know Patty and I could care less what she thinks about the church. If she had common sense she would listen more and speak less. She might learn something.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Then before you speak, research Church Law.
> 
> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_annulment_make_the_children_born_of_the_marriage_illegitimate


Just because something is church law it is not always followed. Patty and I and many others know about the church not abiding by the rules. I have known wonderful priests and some really bad ones and Have been a member of different parishes. Some strict and some not. If you go by the book good for you but the clergy has in the past and still is not all falling in line as you seem to think they are. Why is it such a big deal to you anyway? I think you are telling the truth as you know it and so are other Catholics. It's a wonderful idea taught in Catechism that world wide all Catholics have exactly the same things in common but in reality they don't and that is the truth.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Or Al Jeezera. Now there is news you can trust. After all, Hillary gets her info from them.


Gee, solowey, I look around and all of a sudden things turn ugly. It always happens when you show up. You sure have anger issues don't you, dear. Bless you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You certainly are entitled to your opinion. Women do talk about having abortions in the waiting rooms. As I said, it is a real story with real people. You just don't want to admit to the fact that there are women out there that don't think having an abortion is that big a deal.


Nobody believes your story so go peddle your trash somewhere else. You never have an original thought just the same old B.S. over and over again.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's not racial. Obama was showing his ignorance, period. He is supposed to have staff that inform and educate him on these matters. Like it or not, even the President of the US has to follow protocol. They are the ones that have dropped the ball and the Obamas are the ones that look like fools.


What would you know about protocol? You don't even know what good manners are. You just make yourself foolish coming out here and repeating what has already been said over and over again. At least if you are going to post try to bring something new and original for a change.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There is something more going on with this story. The Church does not consider the children illegitimate and a divorce or annulment in and of itself would not be grounds to deny a sacrament to her or the children. If a priest is unjustly denying a sacrament he should be reported to the Bishop and/or Papal Nuncio. But the priest is also obligated to ensure that the proper spiritual requirements for the children have been met and perhaps the conflict with the mother has left him unable to do that. There is a process she can follow if she chooses.


Sounds good in theory but to many Catholics have not been well served by the Church and they don't all go by "the rules". The process also costs money which a lot of Catholics don't have. Wealthy Catholics also fare better as they have the money required to follow the process required.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You are correct. Only a fool in this day and age would not report this to the diocese and question it. Someone she told would have told her to do that. Maybe she was not Baptized in the Catholic Church. That could be a reason


Money talks loudly in the Catholic church and if you have money the church will listen and if you don't you will not get any attention. I have personally seen the up side and the down side to this and it wasn't years ago. All you have to do is look at how badly the church still treats nuns to know that the male hierarchy all the way up to the top do not want anything to change. When a church has it's own bank and the riches that it does something is very wrong. My Catholic school educated child asked me how come the church hangs on to all its riches when there is so much good to be done in the world with that wealth and he was only nine at the time. These men are called princes of the church and that is how they live and it's about time things changed. Keep following along blindly if it comforts you but it isn't reality.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, Huck and Damemary. Bazinga!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Good Night Everyone.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sounds good in theory but to many Catholics have not been well served by the Church and they don't all go by "the rules". The process also costs money which a lot of Catholics don't have. Wealthy Catholics also fare better as they have the money required to follow the process required.


Ted Kennedy comes to mind


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey Huck! This time around, you're the dish they're serving over on Rav. They look pretty foolish and only make you look better than ever.

p.s. LTL: Sorry. Not solved. Bless your heart.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's a little before 5am here and I'm going to drink my coffee, catch up on all the stuff I missed by checking out early last night and get to work on starting a Ravelry group for us. Anyone who wants to suggest guidelines and/or rules is welcome to. Other input is welcome because I can use all the input I can get. The general idea I have right now is to create a place where liberals can enjoy discussions that aren't derailed in the way they are here. Obviously, some people will be dropped from the group as soon as I can do that.

It isn't my intention to shut down S&O or LOLL. Anyone who wants to still has the freedom to express themselves in those topics, and D&P if that's what you want to do, too.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> Hey Huck! This time around, you're the dish they're serving over on Rav. They look pretty foolish and only make you look better than ever.
> 
> p.s. LTL: Sorry. Not solved. Bless your heart.


Hello FF
Always a pleasure to see you. I shall check it out. Thank you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Hello FF
> Always a pleasure to see you. I shall check it out. Thank you.


I've checked it out--yes, pretty nasty stuff. Frankly I'm very much in favor of SS's idea of starting our own group on Ravelry--after hearing the righties' guillotine theory I realize that I have nothing more to say to them. I'd love to exchange ideas with conservatives who actually live on the planet earth--they must be out there somewhere.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Anyone hear about this? Texas is trying to pass what's being referred to as an omnibus bill that would ban abortion after twenty weeks, require them to be performed in surgical centers, put severe restrictions on the availability of abortion-inducing drugs, and require abortion providers to have admittance privileges to a hospital within thirty miles. The end result of all this would be the closure of 37 out of the 42 abortion clinics in the state.
Outrageous! Happily there are a fair number of protesters who realize what's at stake--if I lived in Texas I'd take to the streets too. This is unacceptable.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Deplorable. This medical procedure has been the law of the land for many years. If they worked this hard on childhood poverty with the same fevor, it would be solved. No, they only worry about the fetus, and forget it after birth. Shame!



susanmos2000 said:


> Anyone hear about this? Texas is trying to pass what's being referred to as an omnibus bill that would ban abortion after twenty weeks, require them to be performed in surgical centers, put severe restrictions on the availability of abortion-inducing drugs, and require abortion providers to have admittance privileges to a hospital within thirty miles. The end result of all this would be the closure of 37 out of the 42 abortion clinics in the state.
> Outrageous! Happily there are a fair number of protesters who realize what's at stake--if I lived in Texas I'd take to the streets too. This is unacceptable.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for your support, Susan. I believe there are conservatives out there who actually live on the planet earth, too. I think what we see most often on FF are the ultra-conservatives and the Christian Right-wingers, and general nut jobs. Yes, there are a few great people there. I don't want to be accused of ignoring that fact. I don't think moderate conservatives find a welcome there very often, though.

Here it is 3 hours after I got online here, and I've caught up, mostly, with topics here, put some bean soup together in the crockpot, fed the cats and played with them, washed a pile of dishes, have my second cup of coffee ready to drink, and am hoping to get on this New Group thing soon. Still have some email to catch up with and (pardon the dirty word) chores to sprinkle out through the day, not to mention having to watch a couple of soaps and work on the crocheted little cover I'm making for my old ottoman. Wheee!

Updates on my progress with the New Group will appear as soon as there are any. Everyone, PM me if you have questions, concerns and suggestions, etc.

I was thinking of call this new grout "The Oasis" but am tempted to call it "Bazinga". Talk me down from this if it seems necessary. Other suggestions for a short name for the group are welcome. I'm just in a welcoming sort of mood...


susanmos2000 said:


> I've checked it out--yes, pretty nasty stuff. Frankly I'm very much in favor of SS's idea of starting our own group on Ravelry--after hearing the righties' guillotine theory I realize that I have nothing more to say to them. I'd love to exchange ideas with conservatives who actually live on the planet earth--they must be out there somewhere.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Anyone hear about this? Texas is trying to pass what's being referred to as an omnibus bill that would ban abortion after twenty weeks, require them to be performed in surgical centers, put severe restrictions on the availability of abortion-inducing drugs, and require abortion providers to have admittance privileges to a hospital within thirty miles. The end result of all this would be the closure of 37 out of the 42 abortion clinics in the state.
> Outrageous! Happily there are a fair number of protesters who realize what's at stake--if I lived in Texas I'd take to the streets too. This is unacceptable.


susanmos2000
Totally unacceptable. I too would join the Protesters. Any woman having to chose a termination at that stage has enough problems. Does not need others to give her more grief.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks for your support, Susan. I believe there are conservatives out there who actually live on the planet earth, too. I think what we see most often on FF are the ultra-conservatives and the Christian Right-wingers, and general nut jobs. Yes, there are a few great people there. I don't want to be accused of ignoring that fact. I don't think moderate conservatives find a welcome there very often, though.
> 
> Here it is 3 hours after I got online here, and I've caught up, mostly, with topics here, put some bean soup together in the crockpot, fed the cats and played with them, washed a pile of dishes, have my second cup of coffee ready to drink, and am hoping to get on this New Group thing soon. Still have some email to catch up with and (pardon the dirty word) chores to sprinkle out through the day, not to mention having to watch a couple of soaps and work on the crocheted little cover I'm making for my old ottoman. Wheee!
> 
> ...


I like Bazinga, but any name will probably be OK. Thanks so much for taking on the work of launching a new group group...not an easy task, but oh we need it so much! I'm convinced that no peace treaty on the KP thread(s) can last for more than a few hours...there's too much hostility, too many grievances, and far too many scores to settle for the lefties and righties here to ever get along.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul
I like Bazinga.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Totally unacceptable. I too would join the Protesters. Any woman having to chose a termination at that stage has enough problems. Does not need others to give her more grief.


It's absolutely bizarre that folks who oppose late term abortions want to put restrictions on those of twelve-weeks or less, thus ensuring that more women have to abort at the later stages. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but then so much of the stuff coming from the right is incomprehensible.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I like Bazinga, but any name will probably be OK. Thanks so much for taking on the work of launching a new group group...not an easy task, but oh we need it so much! I'm convinced that no peace treaty on the KP thread(s) can last for more than a few hours...there's too much hostility, too many grievances, and far too many scores to settle for the lefties and righties here to ever get along.


I think some of those "peace treaties" don't last for even a few minutes sometimes...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's absolutely bizarre that folks who oppose late term abortions want to put restrictions on those of twelve-weeks or less, thus ensuring that more women have to abort at the later stages. Makes absolutely no sense to me, but then so much of the stuff coming from the right is incomprehensible.


This post is incomprehensible.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you lovely ladies for the wonderful welcome.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


Janeway
You are never short of assumptions, are you!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> You are never short of assumptions, are you!


No, she never is. I'll be delighted to leave folks like her behind forever.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wonder who the Ingrieds are on Ravelry. I am none of them. Nothing like a slew of Ingrieds getting to these folks. Got to love it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Anyone hear about this? Texas is trying to pass what's being referred to as an omnibus bill that would ban abortion after twenty weeks, require them to be performed in surgical centers, put severe restrictions on the availability of abortion-inducing drugs, and require abortion providers to have admittance privileges to a hospital within thirty miles. The end result of all this would be the closure of 37 out of the 42 abortion clinics in the state.
> Outrageous! Happily there are a fair number of protesters who realize what's at stake--if I lived in Texas I'd take to the streets too. This is unacceptable.


This bill is what prompted the Texas congressman to talk about the male fetus with his hand between his legs. In an effort to prove fetuses can feel pain at 20 weeks, he offered the pleasure theory, saying that if they can feel pleasure at 20 weeks they could also feel pain.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Ingried(s) are trying to confuse these folks more and more. We enlisted many Ingrieds to be on Ravelry. Thank you Ingrieds it even becomes foggy to us, doesn't it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

SS How would you characterize me.....ultra conservative? Christian Right-winger? or general nut job?



SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks for your support, Susan. I believe there are conservatives out there who actually live on the planet earth, too. I think what we see most often on FF are the ultra-conservatives and the Christian Right-wingers, and general nut jobs. Yes, there are a few great people there. I don't want to be accused of ignoring that fact. I don't think moderate conservatives find a welcome there very often, though.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Ingried and I are trying to even confuse these folks more and more. We enlisted many Ingrieds to be on Ravelry. Thank you Ingried it even becomes foggy to us, doesn't it.


Oops, Ingried, you were supposed to post this remark using your *Huckleberry* avatar and then say, "Ingried and I .... " Those tiny screw-ups will get you every time!

BTW: You didn't have anything to do with the Ingrieds over on Rav. They don't know Huck or Ingried = you.

You really are behind in your reading over on Rav. Please do catch up on yourself, all the faux Ingrieds, and then introduce your other half, Huck.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder who the Ingrieds are on Ravelry. I am none of them. Nothing like a slew of Ingrieds getting to these folks. Got to love it.


I am Ingried and not on Ravelry. Huck keep pretending, I don't mind. Ingried


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> I learned that Ingrieds are not Ingried on Ravelry , Huckleberry is not Ingried and the folks are going nuts over Ingried. Oh what fun it is to observe the circus. Ingried stick around, soon I will be convinced that I am you. Rascal you are.


One of these days you'll convince yourself IngreidHuckleberry! Have fun over there posting in both names or we'll wait to discover the new one you choose.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> One of these days you'll convince yourself IngreidHuckleberry! Have fun over there posting in both names.


All of us will keep you on your toes. Perhaps some day the real Ingried will emerge from the group of Ingrieds alongside Huck.
We make a good looking pair.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> All of us will keep you on your toes. Perhaps some day the real Ingried will emerge from the group of Ingrieds alongside Huck.
> We make a good looking pair.


Pair of what?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oops, Ingried, you were supposed to post this remark using your *Huckleberry* avatar and then say, "Ingried and I .... " Those tiny screw-ups will get you every time!
> 
> BTW: You didn't have anything to do with the Ingrieds over on Rav. They don't know Huck or Ingried = you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> All of us will keep you on your toes. Perhaps some day the real Ingried will emerge from the group of Ingrieds alongside Huck.
> We make a good looking pair.


Huck
Let's wait a while, this play is too interesting to abandon.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Give it up


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Huck
> Let's wait a while, this play is too interesting to abandon.


O.K.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Pair of what?


Ingried, should we tell?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> SS How would you characterize me.....ultra conservative? Christian Right-winger? or general nut job?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't know about any lefties being reprimanded by Admin. I'm starting a group so there will be a safe place for informed discussion.


Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting, I haven't read all of your posts, so I don't feel it would be fair to you to try to categorize you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Give it up


I love Huck and Ingried talking to herself - as a pair or trio with a new Rav name to come = all hilarious! :XD: :-D :XD:

ROFLMBO as she forgets who she is talking to and which avatar/ID name she is using or should use.

Oh, cannot breathe!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Snort


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> I am Ingried and not on Ravelry. Huck keep pretending, I don't mind. Ingried


Does this conversation between two who are the same individual classify you as insane?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Hello Huck. 
See you later. 
Am busy at the site.
You know which one. May want to join me there.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Hello Huck.
> See you later.
> Am busy at the site.
> You know which one. May want to join me there.


Ingried = Huck; have either of you convinced yourself of this equation of equality yet? :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I don't know about any lefties being reprimanded by Admin. I'm starting a group so there will be a safe place for informed discussion.


Amen to that, SS. I too want to discuss the issues with folks from all across the political spectrum--left, right, and center. I've tried very hard to keep an open mind these last few days, made a major effort to keep the peace on FF, and really tried to involve myself in thoughtful discussions there. But it simply doesn't work--there's really no communication possible with folks who believe the government is laying in a supply of guillotines to cut off rightists' heads. It's beyond hopeless.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

UPDATE: I'm reading all about Ravelry in general so I can get the new group off to a good start. This may take me a little while, so don't be concerned if you don't get another update from me until late afternoon.

I'm sure you all know how to keep up with things here. I'll be dropping in a bit myself to see what's up.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Hello Huck.
> See you later.
> Am busy at the site.
> You know which one. May want to join me there.


May do that.


----------



## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

How can you be certain you know all of Ingrid's alternative identities? Can you be absolutely certain 'mojave' is not one of Ingrid's nom de plume? ROFLMAO


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I think that would be a case of self-reporting, and you know where that'll get us. Are the numbers of Ingried's identity actually important?


mojave said:


> How can you be certain you know all of Ingrid's alternative identities? Can you be absolutely certain 'mojave' is not one of Ingrid's nom de plume? ROFLMAO


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> It's a little before 5am here and I'm going to drink my coffee, catch up on all the stuff I missed by checking out early last night and get to work on starting a Ravelry group for us. Anyone who wants to suggest guidelines and/or rules is welcome to. Other input is welcome because I can use all the input I can get. The general idea I have right now is to create a place where liberals can enjoy discussions that aren't derailed in the way they are here. Obviously, some people will be dropped from the group as soon as I can do that.
> 
> It isn't my intention to shut down S&O or LOLL. Anyone who wants to still has the freedom to express themselves in those topics, and D&P if that's what you want to do, too.


There is a group in Ravelry called Stitching Liberally.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for letting me know. I'll check them out.


GWPlver said:


> There is a group in Ravelry called Stitching Liberally.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Might do that.


Maybe I will too!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

mojave said:


> How can you be certain you know all of Ingrid's alternative identities? Can you be absolutely certain 'mojave' is not one of Ingrid's nom de plume? ROFLMAO


Reminds me of that television show in the 50's/60's - when the contestants would all say "I'm so and so" and then others would have to guess the real so and so.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SS what soaps do you watch. I only watch one.

For a Ravelry name, I suggest some thing innocuous....so we're not too easy for the nuts to find. Then you send the word by pm invitation. Just some thoughts.

Thanks for doing all the work.



SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks for your support, Susan. I believe there are conservatives out there who actually live on the planet earth, too. I think what we see most often on FF are the ultra-conservatives and the Christian Right-wingers, and general nut jobs. Yes, there are a few great people there. I don't want to be accused of ignoring that fact. I don't think moderate conservatives find a welcome there very often, though.
> 
> Here it is 3 hours after I got online here, and I've caught up, mostly, with topics here, put some bean soup together in the crockpot, fed the cats and played with them, washed a pile of dishes, have my second cup of coffee ready to drink, and am hoping to get on this New Group thing soon. Still have some email to catch up with and (pardon the dirty word) chores to sprinkle out through the day, not to mention having to watch a couple of soaps and work on the crocheted little cover I'm making for my old ottoman. Wheee!
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not at all. We're just sick of your interruptions and insults.



Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

See why I don't want to make it too easy to find. All this work......and look who's here!



Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> You are never short of assumptions, are you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried is a phantom.



Huckleberry said:


> Wonder who the Ingrieds are on Ravelry. I am none of them. Nothing like a slew of Ingrieds getting to these folks. Got to love it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Beyond our notice.



RUKnitting said:


> SS How would you characterize me.....ultra conservative? Christian Right-winger? or general nut job?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Warning....she/he/it isn't ready to play by itself. Let's not make it easy.



knitpresentgifts said:


> One of these days you'll convince yourself IngreidHuckleberry! Have fun over there posting in both names or we'll wait to discover the new one you choose.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nothing. Go back to sleep.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Pair of what?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> They ramble till I am dizzy. I started this thread but try to stay away. My concern is still Obamacare and the hole we are put into with it. It is coming full force soon. Very, very frightening. This thread could have talked about the pros and cons of Obamacare (maybe it did in the beginning) but the devils took over with their nastiness and ruined the thread. Too bad. Maybe they should start their own thread instead of ruining this one.


They did, it's called LOLL. It seems they can't stay away from this one and D&P. With a few exceptions,(not to say they will not stay away, just haven't heard from them) those on the right are willing to stay away from LOLL. The lefties on the other hand won't agree to it. Nothing new there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we all owe you a vote of thanks.



SeattleSoul said:


> I don't know about any lefties being reprimanded by Admin. I'm starting a group so there will be a safe place for informed discussion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And how do you know damemary isn't Ingried?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nobody believes your story so go peddle your trash somewhere else. You never have an original thought just the same old B.S. over and over again.


You bunch of nobodies don't have to believe anything. Just because you won't accept that it is happening doesn't make it any the less true.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What's My Line?



GWPlver said:


> Reminds me of that television show in the 50's/60's - when the contestants would all say "I'm so and so" and then others would have to guess the real so and so.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she never is. I'll be delighted to leave folks like her behind forever.


We will be delighted to have you leave. Nothing lost there.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> All of us will keep you on your toes. Perhaps some day the real Ingried will emerge from the group of Ingrieds alongside Huck.
> We make a good looking pair.


Laurel and Hardy, Cheech and Chong come to mind. Good looking, hardly.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

mojave said:


> How can you be certain you know all of Ingrid's alternative identities? Can you be absolutely certain 'mojave' is not one of Ingrid's nom de plume? ROFLMAO


mojave
Excellent point. This Ingried is one of many.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> made a major effort to keep the peace on FF, and really tried to involve myself in thoughtful discussions there. .


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! That was a good laugh. Thank you.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Laurel and Hardy, Cheech and Chong come to mind. Good looking, hardly.


soloweygirl
What do you know.
We are really pretty good looking however SO different.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! That was a good laugh. Thank you.


Do you have a purpose to any of your posts?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> And how do you know damemary isn't Ingried?


damemary
I am trying to get Huck to change to Ingried as well. So far no luck.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> SS what soaps do you watch. I only watch one.
> 
> For a Ravelry name, I suggest some thing innocuous....so we're not too easy for the nuts to find. Then you send the word by pm invitation. Just some thoughts.
> 
> Thanks for doing all the work.


Not to worry. The ladies on the right have already said they would be staying away from LOLL, even if your side would not even attempt to do so on D&P. I will say that they will not be following you to Ravelry, nor will the ones already on Ravely waste their time stalking you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> I am trying to get Huck to change to Ingried as well. So far no luck.


I will wave my magic wand and sprinkle fairy dust on all.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not to worry. The ladies on the right have already said they would be staying away from LOLL, even if your side would not even attempt to do so on D&P. I will say that they will not be following you to Ravelry, nor will the ones already on Ravely waste their time stalking you.


Good!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Good!


Now I'm Ingried!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Now I'm Ingried!


Hello Ingried
Good choice you made.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The Young and the Restless and the Bold and the Beautiful. I'm a CBS soap watcher from way back. I still miss As the World Turns... I remember when it ame on TV from radio and watched it with my grandmother. Am getting into General Hospital a little but don't usually have time for it. Please PM me for further discussion about the new group.


damemary said:


> SS what soaps do you watch. I only watch one.
> 
> For a Ravelry name, I suggest some thing innocuous....so we're not too easy for the nuts to find. Then you send the word by pm invitation. Just some thoughts.
> 
> Thanks for doing all the work.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Everybody who's interested, please PM me from now on about the new group. I'll be doing the same.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Hang in there guys. I'm enjoying today's posts.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Everybody who's interested, please PM me from now on about the new group. I'll be doing the same.


Good idea. Keep the new group a secret here so Freedom Fries won't find you guys on the public forum over there. 

That's showing 'em!

BTW: Don't waste your timing learning how to ban Righties and Conservatives who you believe will stalk your group. They don't care and wouldn't bother doing same.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good idea. Keep the new group a secret here so Freedom Fries won't find you guys on the public forum over there.
> 
> That's showing 'em!
> 
> BTW: Don't waste your timing learning how to ban Righties and Conservatives who you believe will stalk your group. They don't care and wouldn't bother doing same.


You think too highly of yourself. Freedom Fries is welcome to post with us any time.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You think too highly of yourself. Freedom Fries is welcome to post with us any time.


Absolutely--and as far as I'm concerned even conservatives are welcome, as long as they're not from the FF crew. I want to exchange ideas and discuss things with all kinds of folks--but not those who believe their self-elected government is, quite literally, after their heads. There can be no meaningful conversation with people like that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I love Huck and Ingried talking to herself - as a pair or trio with a new Rav name to come = all hilarious! :XD: :-D :XD:
> 
> ROFLMBO as she forgets who she is talking to and which avatar/ID name she is using or should use.
> 
> Oh, cannot breathe!


Hmmm, I remember you doing the same as you posted above when you started posting here again. Blue house American flag.
Isn't that right, Cherf? Keep holding your breath...Please!
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, goody, the lefties will start their own site on Ravelry! What a hoot as guess some of them have been reprimanded by Admin for their ugly remarks so they will leave KP.


Sorry to disappoint you, Janeway, but none of us "lefties" have been reprimanded by Admin. However I am sure you have with the disgusting things you have posted.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, Janeway, but none of us "lefties" have been reprimanded by Admin.


Bratty Patty
Assumptions are their mainstay, aren't they Patty! It is so much fun to see them dig for all kinds of stuff and come up empty again and again. They sure have insulted a whole bunch of people on Ravelry. - How to win friends and influence people!!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Assumptions are their mainstay, aren't they Patty! It is so much fun to see them dig for all kinds of stuff and come up empty again and again. They sure have insulted a whole bunch of people on Ravelry. - How to win friends and influence people!!!


Yes, I have seen that Huck. Guess once isn't enough for some people. They need 2 sites to do this. LOL


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> They did, it's called LOLL. It seems they can't stay away from this one and D&P. With a few exceptions,(not to say they will not stay away, just haven't heard from them) those on the right are willing to stay away from LOLL. The lefties on the other hand won't agree to it. Nothing new there.


Wrong. Several of us do not post there. Just a couple of days ago, KPG wanted you all to follow her and copy and paste D&P into LOLL. Glad you were all smarter than her on that choice.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You bunch of nobodies don't have to believe anything. Just because you won't accept that it is happening doesn't make it any the less true.


Bunch of nobodies? My. my, solowey. You have to give up the vinegar for breakfast.
We are not paranoid like you, that's all.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Laurel and Hardy, Cheech and Chong come to mind. Good looking, hardly.


As if you would know? Have you ever seen Huck or Ingried?
You are very unfunny today.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not to worry. The ladies on the right have already said they would be staying away from LOLL, even if your side would not even attempt to do so on D&P. I will say that they will not be following you to Ravelry, nor will the ones already on Ravely waste their time stalking you.


Nice for you to speak for everyone.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> One of these days you'll convince yourself IngreidHuckleberry! Have fun over there posting in both names or we'll wait to discover the new one you choose.


You have fortune cookie wisdom.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Uh uh!! I'm Ingried!!



alcameron said:


> Now I'm Ingried!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely--and as far as I'm concerned even conservatives are welcome, as long as they're not from the FF crew. I want to exchange ideas and discuss things with all kinds of folks--but not those who believe their self-elected government is, quite literally, after their heads. There can be no meaningful conversation with people like that.


Since you are the only one who thinks that, and repeats it, ad nauseam, you'll probably be only to discuss with your Lib friends or yourself, as IngleHuck does, in your new group.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wrong. Several of us do not post there. Just a couple of days ago, KPG wanted you all to follow her and copy and paste D&P into LOLL. Glad you were all smarter than her on that choice.


Still a dumb bunny I see and didn't understand the last part of my post nor quoted it. No wonder you have no home.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Still a dumb bunny I see and didn't understand the last part of my post nor quoted it. No wonder you have no home.


Why do you have to refer to her as "dumb bunny?" Don't you think that's beneath you? And we're the nasty ones? Look in the mirror.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> HELLO HELLO HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO, glad you are back
> 
> {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: thank you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> May do that.


Oh, I know, I know, I know, let me answer! It is Paula Deen on KP!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, Janeway, but none of us "lefties" have been reprimanded by Admin. However I am sure you have with the disgusting things you have posted.


No I have not, but you were kicked off for your rude/crude remarks! Don't throw stones in your glass home.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, Janeway, but none of us "lefties" have been reprimanded by Admin. However I am sure you have with the disgusting things you have posted.


No I have not, but you were kicked off for your rude/crude remarks! Don't throw stones in your glass home.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, I know, I know, I know, let me answer! It is Paula Deen on KP![/qu
> 
> Janeway
> You will NEVER ever believe who one of us is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm tired of reading Bible quotes rather than ideas and discussion....and curses of eternal damnation. Just my choice at the moment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm a CBS Young & the Restless fan too.



SeattleSoul said:


> The Young and the Restless and the Bold and the Beautiful. I'm a CBS soap watcher from way back. I still miss As the World Turns... I remember when it ame on TV from radio and watched it with my grandmother. Am getting into General Hospital a little but don't usually have time for it. Please PM me for further discussion about the new group.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Proof at last: KPG is the nasty dumb bunny and nothing is beneath it.



alcameron said:


> Why do you have to refer to her as "dumb bunny?" Don't you think that's beneath you? And we're the nasty ones? Look in the mirror.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Reading bible verses are far more fun to read than train rides.

Talk about being taken for a ride. It is so reassuring how Obama is respected by China, Russia, Iceland and now Ecuador in returning Snoden. They are quaking in fear at crossing that red line in the sand.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm tired of reading Bible quotes rather than ideas and discussion....and curses of eternal damnation. Just my choice at the moment.


damemary
Me too. B O R I N G.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Reading bible verses are far more fun to read than train rides.
> 
> Talk about being taken for a ride. It is so reassuring how Obama is respected by China, Russia, Iceland and now Ecuador in returning Snoden. They are quaking in fear at crossing that red line in the sand.


lovethelake
and you thought this was cute? Try again. I guess you were excited about the Cold War too.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> and you thought this was cute? Try again. I guess you were excited about the Cold War too.


Poof! I waved my magic wand and sprinkled fairy dust on her!
(Is she gone yet?)


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm surprised he went on his trip.... with all the scandals. But, then again he didn't know that the attack on Benghazi was a terror attack, or that the IRS was targeting conservative organizations filing for exemptions or his DOJ had lied to congress...... that's what happens when you lead from behind. Speaking of which, you aren't leading when you are behind everyone.... that's called following.
OH, almost forgot that the sniper team was going on the Safari trip to shoot the wild animals that might get near the first family. Gotta love it to be able to reconstruct it into a fantastic idea to travel during a financial crisis and personal crisis.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If that were completely true, would it make you happy? I have seen the government and it is us.



lovethelake said:


> Reading bible verses are far more fun to read than train rides.
> 
> Talk about being taken for a ride. It is so reassuring how Obama is respected by China, Russia, Iceland and now Ecuador in returning Snoden. They are quaking in fear at crossing that red line in the sand.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Reload. Don't take any chances.



alcameron said:


> Poof! I waved my magic wand and sprinkled fairy dust on her!
> (Is she gone yet?)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga for dinner.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm saddened by what's happening to this country. Our constitutional rights are being stripped from us and some don't even realize it nor do they care. I do care, I've lived in a third world country, with a dictator in control and its not pretty.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

No she's back......


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lydreina said:


> I'm saddened by what's happening to this country. Our constitutional rights are being stripped from us and some don't even realize it nor do they care. I do care, I've lived in a third world country, with a dictator in control and its not pretty.


Which constitutional right(s)have you lost?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lydreina said:


> I'm surprised he went on his trip.... with all the scandals. But, then again he didn't know that the attack on Benghazi was a terror attack, or that the IRS was targeting conservative organizations filing for exemptions or his DOJ had lied to congress...... that's what happens when you lead from behind. Speaking of which, you aren't leading when you are behind everyone.... that's called following.
> OH, almost forgot that the sniper team was going on the Safari trip to shoot the wild animals that might get near the first family. Gotta love it to be able to reconstruct it into a fantastic idea to travel during a financial crisis and personal crisis.


lydreina
Wow what a script we have here.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Which constitutional right(s)have you lost?


alcameron
Someone has lost it - you know what I mean!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Someone has lost it - you know what I mean!


Yup!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lydreina said:


> No she's back......


Hello


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Still a dumb bunny I see and didn't understand the last part of my post nor quoted it. No wonder you have no home.


You are still an arrogant ass as usual. Have no home? What in heavens name are you talking about? Lay off the ice cream. Sugar overload is bad for the brain and your buttocks which I believe is here most of your thoughts begin in the form of hot air and come out as hot air.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lydreina said:


> I'm surprised he went on his trip.... with all the scandals. But, then again he didn't know that the attack on Benghazi was a terror attack, or that the IRS was targeting conservative organizations filing for exemptions or his DOJ had lied to congress...... that's what happens when you lead from behind. Speaking of which, you aren't leading when you are behind everyone.... that's called following.
> OH, almost forgot that the sniper team was going on the Safari trip to shoot the wild animals that might get near the first family. Gotta love it to be able to reconstruct it into a fantastic idea to travel during a financial crisis and personal crisis.


Oh God, another one..........


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wrong. Several of us do not post there. Just a couple of days ago, KPG wanted you all to follow her and copy and paste D&P into LOLL. Glad you were all smarter than her on that choice.


*WRONG< WRONG< WRONG Brat:*

Here's my complete post, which, of course, *you lied* and misquoted by eliminating my last sentence:



knitpresentgifts said:


> I think every time each of us writes a post in this thread, we should immediately copy/paste it verbatim onto the L. O. L. L. thread since the Libs use that same technique on this thread.
> 
> What do you all think. Shall we share the wealth and us around?
> 
> _Nah, on second thought, we shouldn't lower ourselves to their immature level._


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh God, another one..........


Bratty Patty
Check it out, FULL MOON.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh God, another one..........


It's OK. I used my wand and fairy dust.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Check it out, FULL MOON.


And a rather large gassy moon at that! Her flatulence is very offensive. Rather bold of her , don't you think?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

KPG,
I did not lie, your words are there as I described them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I lied about nothing. You did write what I said.


Keep on telling yourself lies, Bratty. Some day, somebody might believe you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Keep on telling yourself lies, Bratty. Some day, somebody might believe you.


Once again, your words are there for everyone to see. No lying on my part. Keep making a fool of yourself. Everybody already believes you to be.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Once again, your words are there for everyone to see. No lying on my part. Keep making a fool of yourself. Everybody already believes you to be.


Obviously, you didn't tell the whole story, so the context of your quoting me is a complete falsehood. All of my words are NOT there in your post - you parsed my words to quote only what you wanted to - particularly the words that spoke of you as immature.

Typical Lib tactic - never works.

Now - all my words ARE posted in their entirety for all to see.

I'm proud you chose to repeat my words as the words are appropriate. You *are* immature.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obviously, you didn't tell the whole story, so the context of your quoting me is a complete falsehood. All of my words are NOT there in your post - you parsed my words to quote only what you wanted to - particularly the words that spoke of you as immature.
> 
> Now - those words ARE posted in their entirety for all to see.
> 
> I hope you're proud to repeat my words as the words are appropriate. You *are* immature.


The gist is still the same, KPG. Imature? Nah, just young at heart.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> And a rather large gassy moon at that! Her flatulence is very offensive. Rather bold of her , don't you think?


Bratty Patty
Aren't we lucky not to be suffering from such influences!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> The gist is still the same, KPG. Imature? Nah, just young at heart.


Cannot even spell can you?

Wow. BTW: You shouldn't be so hard on yourself: here's your words:



BrattyPatty said:


> You keep making a fool of me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Aren't we lucky not to be suffering from such influences!


You got that right, Huck! Could you toss over that can of Glade? The air is rather thick in here tonight and quite noxious!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> KPG,
> I did not lie, your words are there as I described them.


Bratty Patty
Every time KPG tells an other lie she goes into a frenzy to deny it. Interesting behavior.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Now who is being immature? Go air yourself out, dear


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> The gist is still the same, KPG. Imature? Nah, just young at heart.


Bratty Patty
Not only young at heart, a knock-out as well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Every time KPG tells an other lie she goes into a frenzy to deny it. Interesting behavior.


Nite Ingried!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obviously, you didn't tell the whole story, so the context of your quoting me is a complete falsehood. All of my words are NOT there in your post - you parsed my words to quote only what you wanted to - particularly the words that spoke of you as immature.
> 
> Typical Lib tactic - never works.
> 
> ...


How mature is calling someone a "dumb bunny?"
Poof! Fairy dust and wand!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Every time KPG tells an other lie she goes into a frenzy to deny it. Interesting behavior.


That is typical "right" behaviour, Huck. One who thinks they are always right have a hard time admitting when they are wrong.
She/he is a prime example.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nite Ingried!


Night, Cherf!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> KPG,
> I did not lie, your words are there as I described them.


Bratty Patty
All along nothing but lies have been posted about me by knitpresentgifts. I guess you are the target now. That person has some real issues, like pathological Liar for which I can present proof.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> All along nothing but lies have been posted about me by knitpresentgifts. I guess you are the target now. That person has some real issues, like pathological Liar for which I can present proof.


Oh, I believe you , Huck. This one is in dire need of counseling. I am resistant to her arrows as I know her MO and past identity.
Didn't lcare for it's posts then. and I don't care for them now.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Great, Obama is going to cost the US economy 500,000 jobs, 4000 companies could close and increase energy bills 20%. What a wonderful way to improve our economy. Guess his new theme should be "No hope because of change"

Is that how to stimulate the economy?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> Proof at last: KPG is the nasty dumb bunny and nothing is beneath it.


I cannot believe how low this is. The bottom of the barrel. Disgusting. What kind of person are you. Pathetic.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great, Obama is going to cost the US economy 500,000 jobs, 4000 companies could close and increase energy bills 20%. What a wonderful way to improve our economy. Guess his new theme should be "No hope because of change"
> 
> Is that how to stimulate the economy?


I'll say it again. Obama is ruining our country.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

It's a sad day when we can't have an adult conversation. but rather return to our childhood where, instead of arguing the facts, resort to name calling and insulting one another. If you take issue with a post just try to refute it with facts. Fact check my post......


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You realize, of course that this was quoting KPG's words and turning them back. You have just called KPG disgusting and bottom of the barrel. All true but you aren't usually this perceptive.

Welcome aboard lukelucy. Can LYL be far behind?



Lukelucy said:


> I cannot believe how low this is. The bottom of the barrel. Disgusting. What kind of person are you. Pathetic.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> You realize, of course that this was quoting KPG's words and turning them back. You have just called KPG disgusting and bottom of the barrel. All true but you aren't usually this perceptive.
> 
> Welcome aboard lukelucy. Can LYL be far behind?


Sorry. I made a mistake. I will always support KPG.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lydreina said:


> That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


lydreina, I am in health care and have been for over 35 years. I have said the same thing but the nasty nay-sayers here don't get it or don't care to get it.

Here in Minnesota we have several medical device companies, such as Medtronics, that are screaming at the top of their lungs about how the AHCA (which is affordable to everyone but those who actually work to earn their money) is going to affect them. Many employees have already been laid off from these companies because the companies are anticipating that their taxes will rise dramatically and they need to have the money on hand to pay the additional taxes. There are over 50 individual additional taxes included in the AHCA that will affect everybody.

Some people just don't get it.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

lydreina said:


> That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


I am so sorry to hear that, but unfortunately I am not surprised. People were warned, but most chose not to listen.

Hope you and your family make it through these difficult times.


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## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

Thanks!!! Good to know there are others who really are paying attention to the news..... and know what's going on now.
My son is going to take a hit financially but he'll make it, we raised him to have a good work ethic, save $$, and be responsible. I've read some of the other comments, thin skinned mean comments. As I've said, attack with facts not insults.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lydreina said:


> That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


Lydreina, How nice to hear from a new voice and one of intelligent thought. The regular voices on this thread barely have meaningful conversation anymore so it is welcome to hear a voice of reason.

Your words are disheartening yet so very true. The "affordable" act is nothing but more expensive. So many people who used to be insured will not be able to "afford" their increased insurance premiums. The young, will refuse to purchase the mandated insurance and will pay the fines instead. The IRS will probably have a difficult time collecting the owed fines. The buyers' and fine $ that Obama and the Dems and those who supported Obamacare rely on won't come into the Treasury, so the CBO's cost estimates are off by millions, perhaps billions only adding to the debt and deficit again with less coverage for all.

Doctors are already refusing Medicare patients, so those who need to benefit the most from medical insurance (older folks) will suffer as well as receive less coverage for more money.

Nothing about Obamacare works or makes logical sense. Even KS is bartering for dollars and begging states to set up their exchanges.

I doubt Obamacare will ever be fully implemented and probably be repealed or never funded so it dies a slow death.


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## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

One can only hope. I'm still speechless from rehearing on youtube Nancy Pelosi saying "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it" How stupid is that???? Who would buy anything sight unseen, un-vetted, & extremely pricey based on the promise it's great!!! from people you don't know or trust?????


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Obamacare is here to stay, the population will be healthier, the insurance companies are no longer dictating which services we will get and the cost will be affordable. MARK MY WORD. We finally will be in the 21st Century with Health Care. Physicians and Hospitals are already gearing up for the changes and will have fewer battles to fight. Now we need to stand up and make sure that the Republicans keep their hands off of our Bodies.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I cannot believe how low this is. The bottom of the barrel. Disgusting. What kind of person are you. Pathetic.


If you read previous posts you would see that your KPG is the person who called someone a dumb bunny. She is not the victim.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lydreina said:


> One can only hope. I'm still speechless from rehearing on youtube Nancy Pelosi saying "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it" How stupid is that???? Who would buy anything sight unseen, un-vetted, & extremely pricey based on the promise it's great!!! from people you don't know or trust?????


Well .......... don't try to re-read the thousands of posts in this thread as there are many who do support Obamacare in this thread. I believe every one of them is a Lib and/or Dem. I do not remember a single Repub, Conserv, or Indep supporting OBC on this thread.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lydreina said:


> It's a sad day when we can't have an adult conversation. but rather return to our childhood where, instead of arguing the facts, resort to name calling and insulting one another. If you take issue with a post just try to refute it with facts. Fact check my post......


So which constitutional right of yours has been taken away?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

lydreina said:


> One can only hope. I'm still speechless from rehearing on youtube Nancy Pelosi saying "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it" How stupid is that???? Who would buy anything sight unseen, un-vetted, & extremely pricey based on the promise it's great!!! from people you don't know or trust?????


Well all the Democrats did. The Senate didn't even have the courage to vote on it. Did not have the courage to put their names on the bill.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lydreina said:


> One can only hope. I'm still speechless from rehearing on youtube Nancy Pelosi saying "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it" How stupid is that???? Who would buy anything sight unseen, un-vetted, & extremely pricey based on the promise it's great!!! from people you don't know or trust?????


But it was passed.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> If you read previous posts you would see that your KPG is the person who called someone a dumb bunny. She is not the victim.


That's correct, and I told LL that myself. KPG has been misquoted *again* by Bratty Patty since BP left out the complete and most pertinent sentence of my post she quoted as it was not favorable for her to actually quote me.

Surprise. Desperate tactic.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That's correct, and I told LL that myself. KPG has been misquoted *again* by Bratty Patty since BP left out the complete and most pertinent sentence of my post she quoted as it was not favorable for her to really quote me.
> 
> Surprise.


No apology to the "dumb bunny, gracious lady?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> But it was passed.


No it wasn't. It was rammed through like an Exec Order by President Obama without the proper due process since there wasn't enough support for it by the two parties combined.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lydreina said:


> That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


Obamacare needs to go away somehow. Most people don't like it What can we do??


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> No apology to the "dumb bunny, gracious lady?


Sure, the minute the bunny admits she intentionally misquoted me to suit her purpose.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That's correct, and I told LL that myself. KPG has been misquoted *again* by Bratty Patty since BP left out the complete and most pertinent sentence of my post she quoted as it was not favorable for her to actually quote me.
> 
> Surprise. Desperate tactic.


knitpresengift
If I would post every lie and misquote you posted re. me we will be here to eternity. Oh dear, you willl have a lot to answer to when you get to the Pearly Gate. It will turn into traffic jam.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresengift
> If I would post every lie and misquote you posted re. me we will be here to eternity. Oh dear, you willl have a lot to answer to when you get to the Pearly Gate.


They are not getting near the Pearly Gate. Not even close.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

You may want to try and read was has been posted positively re. Obamacare. You will learn something.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I have no illusion re. a Pearly Gate.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I guess there are no new scandals to invent so they have to re-invent Obamacare. Here's how Obamacare will lead to the creation of a single-payer system: the insurance companies (first Aetna in CA) will pull out of state exchanges because they can't charge the exorbitant rates they want to soak people for. Those noble, magnanimous companies who want to get rich from gouging sick people with higher and higher premiums and more and more claim denials are making a ton of money. I guess many of you have insurance paid for wholly or in part by an employer so you don't care. Or perhaps you're in a nice, high income bracket where the outlay of salary doesn't even make a dent in your paycheck. Good for you! Spiraling healthcare costs are to blame for much of the country's economic ills, but no republican cares to do anything about it. Why?? Because it's the good Christian "me, me, me" generation. Who cares about the rest?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> You may want to try and read was has been posted positively re. Obamacare. You will learn something.


Those posts are written by people with nothing to loose. They are the downtrodden. They don't own companies. I wonder if they have the knowledge it takes to judge. Do they know that healthcare in general will be reduced in quality?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sure, the minute the bunny admits she intentionally misquoted me to suit her purpose.


Childish behavior!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Those posts are written by people with nothing to loose. They are the downtrodden. They don't own companies. I wonder if they have the knowledge it takes to judge. Do they know that healthcare in general will be reduced in quality?


Prove it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess there are no new scandals to invent so they have to re-invent Obamacare. Here's how Obamacare will lead to the creation of a single-payer system: the insurance companies (first Aetna in CA) will pull out of state exchanges because they can't charge the exorbitant rates they want to soak people for. Those noble, magnanimous companies who want to get rich from gouging sick people with higher and higher premiums and more and more claim denials are making a ton of money. I guess many of you have insurance paid for wholly or in part by an employer so you don't care. Or perhaps you're in a nice, high income bracket where the outlay of salary doesn't even make a dent in your paycheck. Good for you! Spiraling healthcare costs are to blame for much of the country's economic ills, but no republican cares to do anything about it. Why?? Because it's the good Christian "me, me, me" generation. Who cares about the rest?


You got it all wrong.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Prove it.


You prove it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They are not getting near the Pearly Gate. Not even close.


I'm laughing. She hasn't made one single post of facts or proof of what she accuses me of and never will (same story for everyone).

Huck lies nearly in every one of her thousands of posts. Doesn't even comprehend when others prove her as the liar she is. In fact, Huckleberry nor Ingried knows how to properly use the words "proof" and "prove."

Maybe her husband does.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You prove it.


You made the statement that people don't understand that the quality of care is going to go down. You can't prove it because it has not happened. The onus of proof is not on me.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Alcameron, You got it all wrong.


Lukelucy - she almost always does


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm laughing. She hasn't made one single post of facts or proof of what she accuses me of and never will (same story for everyone).
> 
> Huck lies nearly in every one of her thousands of posts. Doesn't even comprehend when others prove her as the liar she is. In fact, Huckleberry nor Ingried knows how to properly use the words "proof" and "prove."


Ooh. You got someone on an error. You do that constantly, but you don't want others to do it, right?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Lukelucy - she almost always does


Opinion can't be wrong, it's an opinion. I have a different viewpoint than you, so that makes me wrong? You are so open and tolerant. Recognize the word "tolerance?" I think not.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Those posts are written by people with nothing to loose. They are the downtrodden. They don't own companies. I wonder if they have the knowledge it takes to judge. Do they know that healthcare in general will be reduced in quality?


And why don't you want to help the "downtrodden?"


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lydreina said:


> It's a sad day when we can't have an adult conversation. but rather return to our childhood where, instead of arguing the facts, resort to name calling and insulting one another. If you take issue with a post just try to refute it with facts. Fact check my post......


You can't refute a viewpoint or an opinion with facts, dear. It's an opinion.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm laughing. She hasn't made one single post of facts or proof of what she accuses me of and never will (same story for everyone).
> 
> Huck lies nearly in every one of her thousands of posts. Doesn't even comprehend when others prove her as the liar she is. In fact, Huckleberry nor Ingried knows how to properly use the words "proof" and "prove."
> 
> Maybe her husband does.


If she has a husband. Who could stand it. One of them professes to be a writer, right. That is so lame. Once when I was single, I met a guy who said he was a "writer". I couldn't get away from him fast enough. Wanna Bees is what I say to people who are writers. They think the sound good to people...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Those posts are written by people with nothing to loose. They are the downtrodden. They don't own companies. I wonder if they have the knowledge it takes to judge. Do they know that healthcare in general will be reduced in quality?


Lukelucy
Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. We DO KNOW and you are just guessing or simply spitting out what others fed you.

"Downtrodden" what a kind description re. those who for many reasons have fallen on hard times. Is that kind of language out of your Holy Book? What did I miss?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I guess there are no new scandals to invent so they have to re-invent Obamacare. Here's how Obamacare will lead to the creation of a single-payer system: the insurance companies (first Aetna in CA) will pull out of state exchanges because they can't charge the exorbitant rates they want to soak people for. Those noble, magnanimous companies who want to get rich from gouging sick people with higher and higher premiums and more and more claim denials are making a ton of money. I guess many of you have insurance paid for wholly or in part by an employer so you don't care. Or perhaps you're in a nice, high income bracket where the outlay of salary doesn't even make a dent in your paycheck. Good for you! Spiraling healthcare costs are to blame for much of the country's economic ills, but no republican cares to do anything about it. Why?? Because it's the good Christian "me, me, me" generation. Who cares about the rest?


alcameron
Thank you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess there are no new scandals to invent so they have to re-invent Obamacare. Here's how Obamacare will lead to the creation of a single-payer system: the insurance companies (first Aetna in CA) will pull out of state exchanges because they can't charge the exorbitant rates they want to soak people for. Those noble, magnanimous companies who want to get rich from gouging sick people with higher and higher premiums and more and more claim denials are making a ton of money. I guess many of you have insurance paid for wholly or in part by an employer so you don't care. Or perhaps you're in a nice, high income bracket where the outlay of salary doesn't even make a dent in your paycheck. Good for you! Spiraling healthcare costs are to blame for much of the country's economic ills, but no republican cares to do anything about it. Why?? Because it's the good Christian "me, me, me" generation. Who cares about the rest?


Andrea - You will never hear anyone on the right blame an insurance company for anything. Everything that ever happened that they don't like somehow can be traced back to Obama. It is so simple to just blame him and they are a simple bunch.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm laughing. She hasn't made one single post of facts or proof of what she accuses me of and never will (same story for everyone).
> 
> Huck lies nearly in every one of her thousands of posts. Doesn't even comprehend when others prove her as the liar she is. In fact, Huckleberry nor Ingried knows how to properly use the words "proof" and "prove."
> 
> Maybe her husband does.


knitpresengifts
Keep an eye on it, I make other mistakes as well. Of course you never do, do you? At least I rarely make the same one twice, you are consistent however.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Those posts are written by people with nothing to loose. They are the downtrodden. They don't own companies. I wonder if they have the knowledge it takes to judge. Do they know that healthcare in general will be reduced in quality?


No downtrodden person here lukelucy. You and the loyal right just keep repeating the party line over and over again. Doesn't really matter if you are wrong or right. You just take the path of least resistance. It is so much easier than thinking for yourself and coming up with your own conclusions. If you did you may learn something but I guess you are happy blaming Obama for everything. Sure doesn't require anything from you does it? How convenient.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You prove it.


You can't prove it Lukelucy because you just repeat your party line. You would actually have to educate yourself in order to prove anything and why waste your time doing that, right?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea - You will never hear anyone on the right blame an insurance company for anything. Everything that ever happened that they don't like somehow can be traced back to Obama. It is so simple to just blame him and they are a simple bunch.


Cheeky Blighter
"Simple" is a very appropiate description and we can prove that they are - correction, they keep pointing it out again and again.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm laughing. She hasn't made one single post of facts or proof of what she accuses me of and never will (same story for everyone).
> 
> Huck lies nearly in every one of her thousands of posts. Doesn't even comprehend when others prove her as the liar she is. In fact, Huckleberry nor Ingried knows how to properly use the words "proof" and "prove."
> 
> Maybe her husband does.


You are the biggest "story teller" out here. You never let having the facts stop you from posting your drivel and now you have been reduced to calling people names. My how the mighty(mouse) has fallen. Only one thing you are good for and that is comic relief and you aren't even doing that well.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> "Simple" is a very appropiate description and we can prove that they are - correction, they keep pointing it out again and again.


Simple, they are, Huck. Don't want to overdo it by educating themselves with those troublesome things called facts. TBBC
Bazinga!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> If she has a husband. Who could stand it. One of them professes to be a writer, right. That is so lame. Once when I was single, I met a guy who said he was a "writer". I couldn't get away from him fast enough. Wanna Bees is what I say to people who are writers. They think the sound good to people...


Lukelucy
' a writer"? That is funny, very funny. A cougar I am and a writer my partner is not.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sure, the minute the bunny admits she intentionally misquoted me to suit her purpose.


It isn't going to happen, ass. You can cry foul all you want, but your words are still there.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are the biggest "story teller" out here. You never let having the facts stop you from posting your drivel and now you have been reduced to calling people names. My how the mighty(mouse) has fallen. Only one thing you are good for and that is comic relief and you aren't even doing that well.


Cheeky Blighter
it would be so much more interesting if any comedy would emerge from KPG but he not even has a touch of humor he can share.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They are not getting near the Pearly Gate. Not even close.


Are you God now? Do you dare to make his decisions? Go back and read the first commandment, LL. It's people like you that the spirit at the pearly gates will question.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No downtrodden person here lukelucy. You and the loyal right just keep repeating the party line over and over again. Doesn't really matter if you are wrong or right. You just take the path of least resistance. It is so much easier than thinking for yourself and coming up with your own conclusions. If you did you may learn something but I guess you are happy blaming Obama for everything. Sure doesn't require anything from you does it? How convenient.


Cheeky Blighter
If they only knew your background: particulary that of your husband's. They will never match that. Your family photos sure are royal. It is a pleasure to be in your company. You are so lucky not to be downtrodden. Wishful thinking on some of these folk's part, won't happen we can assure them. I admire however very much that you and your husband give a lot of time to those who are in need.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> If she has a husband. Who could stand it. One of them professes to be a writer, right. That is so lame. Once when I was single, I met a guy who said he was a "writer". I couldn't get away from him fast enough. Wanna Bees is what I say to people who are writers. They think the sound good to people...


Lukelucy
It is obvious that you do not like writers. Reading books is not something you spend time doing. The voids keep pointing that out.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Lydreina, How nice to hear from a new voice and one of intelligent thought. The regular voices on this thread barely have meaningful conversation anymore so it is welcome to hear a voice of reason.
> 
> Your words are disheartening yet so very true. The "affordable" act is nothing but more expensive. So many people who used to be insured will not be able to "afford" their increased insurance premiums. The young, will refuse to purchase the mandated insurance and will pay the fines instead. The IRS will probably have a difficult time collecting the owed fines. The buyers' and fine $ that Obama and the Dems and those who supported Obamacare rely on won't come into the Treasury, so the CBO's cost estimates are off by millions, perhaps billions only adding to the debt and deficit again with less coverage for all.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, it seems to be working very well in California.
I have never been turned away by any doctor because I have Medicare, nor has my coverage changed.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. We DO KNOW and you are just guessing or simply spitting out what others fed you.
> 
> "Downtrodden" what a kind description re. those who for many reasons have fallen on hard times. Is that kind of language out of your Holy Book? What did I miss?


I do not want to have anything to do with you. Stay away from me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> It is obvious that you do not like writers. Reading books is not something you spend time doing. The voids keep pointing that out.


Now she is attacking your SO? Pathetic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great, Obama is going to cost the US economy 500,000 jobs, 4000 companies could close and increase energy bills 20%. What a wonderful way to improve our economy. Guess his new theme should be "No hope because of change"
> 
> Is that how to stimulate the economy?


Have you stopped to think that the new clean energy will create jobs as well?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not want to have anything to do with you. Stay away from me.


If that is the case, then why keep on attacking her? You speak in double talk.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I cannot believe how low this is. The bottom of the barrel. Disgusting. What kind of person are you. Pathetic.


But it is okay if KPG does the name calling? 
Oh yeah, I forgot you 2 are physically attached.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not want to have anything to do with you. Stay away from me.


Lukelucy
You at least once before promised not to talk to me only to break that promise. I am glad it gets to you when someone points our your ugly ways. Downtrodden are people in need, try to remember at least that.
"how you treat the least among you so you treat me" (close), remember?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hmmm, it seems to be working very well in California.
> I have never been turned away by any doctor because I have Medicare, nor has my coverage changed.


Bratty Patty
Medicare should be available to everybody. Eventually that will be our Universal Health Care. Some Doctors opted not to accept Medicare Patients for a while but quickly reversed that. Their waiting rooms were empty. After all it is the older generation which needs constant care.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Have you stopped to think that the new clean energy will create jobs as well?


Bratty Patty
Your expectations are much too high = think is foreign to some people.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It isn't going to happen, ass. You can cry foul all you want, but your words are still there.


Must you be so crass? Such a limited vocabulary.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Must you be so crass? Such a limited vocabulary.


Lovethelake,

They are stooping lower now. I did not think it could get any lower.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It isn't going to happen, ass. You can cry foul all you want, but your words are still there.





lovethelake said:


> Must you be so crass? Such a limited vocabulary.


 :XD: Actually, my words are *not* still there - never have been! My words were deleted which is the point.

LTL: Don't worry about what the Brat calls me. Frankly, I've been told that is one of my best features many a time. :-D


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nice for you to speak for everyone.


I can speak for them on this issue as a poll was taken and they stated they would not go to the LOLL thread.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Reload. Don't take any chances.


Just don't use the crosshairs word. Your fellow liberals go ballistic over that word. Remember how they went after Sarah Palin when she used that word?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> All along nothing but lies have been posted about me by knitpresentgifts. I guess you are the target now. That person has some real issues, like pathological Liar for which I can present proof.


Please present said proof.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just don't use the crosshairs word. Your fellow liberals go ballistic over that word. Remember how they went after Sarah Palin when she used that word?


soloweygirl
Oh Sarah, dear Sarah, what a brainchild you have there. Whatever is left of the GOP she will demolish. That is very sad. I truly like two strong parties. It benefits everyone. Some day, not soon, the GOP will show up again.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Please present said proof.


and a retraction!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Great, Obama is going to cost the US economy 500,000 jobs, 4000 companies could close and increase energy bills 20%. What a wonderful way to improve our economy. Guess his new theme should be "No hope because of change"
> 
> Is that how to stimulate the economy?


Shutting down the coal industry was one of Obama's campaign promises. He did say that shutting down the coal industry would directly increase the cost of electricity. This promise he is attempting to keep. And the Democrats say the Republicans don't care about the middle class. This helps the middle class how? An increase in electricity is all they need right now. The bills will be higher going into summer with AC usage anyway, now it will increase because Obama hates coal.

It is all about the vote for the Democrats. The important thing is the vote, the people - not so much. After all, they served their purpose by voting him in. They are not needed until the next election where they will vote the same way again. Nothing like an indoctrinated population. Promise them anything, deliver nothing and get the vote anyway.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lydreina said:


> That's right, many doctors are retiring early from their medical practice. My husband, whose company was a medical supply company, choose to retire early although he had 3 more years on his contract. His reason, the Affordable Health Care Act, which would bankrupt his company..... his tax accountant and tax lawyer told him that it would reduce his revenue by 50%. (and there was a new TAX on medical appliances, want to guess who's going to get hurt with that? Ask the 200 Smith and Nephew employees who were laid off last month) And then there was the capital gains tax, which Obama was threatening to raise.... so hubby retired, 20 employees lost their job... 4 choose to retire, and the remaining employees were able to get hired by the company my husband represented as independent contract employees..... Many companies are going to contract employees rather than employees or reducing hours worked to under 30 to avoid having to provide insurance for them. Ask why they are doing this.... simple, many business are mom & pop companies barely making it before all these regulations.....


There is a growing number of doctors that are switching to a cash only operation. They will not accept health insurance of any kind. Instead, they will be offering to their patients lower costs for all procedures than the insurance companies offer. Many doctors feel this is the way to go as they no longer will have to pay outrageous malpractice insurance premiums. They can do the tests they feel are necessary and save the patient money. They can actually get back to the practice of medicine.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Have you stopped to think that the new clean energy will create jobs as well?


The clean energy jobs that were "created" for solar energy, wind energy? That was really an astronomical amount of jobs created before all the bankruptcies. The cost of each of those jobs was ridiculous as well. Will this new push for "clean" energy be any different? I doubt it. Right now, "clean" energy needs fossil fuel energy to make it happen, if it happens at all.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There is a growing number of doctors that are switching to a cash only operation. They will not accept health insurance of any kind. Instead, they will be offering to their patients lower costs for all procedures than the insurance companies offer. Many doctors feel this is the way to go as they no longer will have to pay outrageous malpractice insurance premiums. They can do the tests they feel are necessary and save the patient money. They can actually get back to the practice of medicine.


Who will pay for the tests? If there is a major operation, who will pay for that? I can see people loosing their life savings and going in the red from health costs. It is scary.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: Actually, my words are *not* still there - never have been! My words were deleted which is the point.
> 
> LTL: Don't worry about what the Brat calls me. Frankly, I've been told that is one of my best features many a time. :-D


Too much information!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There is a growing number of doctors that are switching to a cash only operation. They will not accept health insurance of any kind. Instead, they will be offering to their patients lower costs for all procedures than the insurance companies offer. Many doctors feel this is the way to go as they no longer will have to pay outrageous malpractice insurance premiums. They can do the tests they feel are necessary and save the patient money. They can actually get back to the practice of medicine.


Maybe it'll work for a cold or strep throat. How about open-heart surgery? Chemotherapy? MRI? I guess if you're in the top 1% it doesn't matter. Maybe that's why so many of you seem to have trouble comprehending that healthcare is out of reach for so many people. You're too insulated from the rest of the population.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Maybe it'll work for a cold or strep throat. How about open-heart surgery? Chemotherapy? MRI? I guess if you're in the top 1% it doesn't matter. Maybe that's why so many of you seem to have trouble comprehending that healthcare is out of reach for so many people. You're too insulated from the rest of the population.


Obamacare will not work..


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Who will pay for the tests? If there is a major operation, who will pay for that? I can see people loosing their life savings and going in the red from health costs. It is scary.


Lukelucy, I agree with you on this. People are going broke because of the current healthcare system.
That's why we have to try to change the system. And that's what Obamacare was/is trying to do.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare will not work..


That's an opinion. I might add that the Republican Party has spent $400 million in advertising to try to make people believe this.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy, I agree with you on this. People are going broke because of the current healthcare system.
> That's why we have to try to change the system. And that's what Obamacare was/is trying to do.


I respectfully disagree. People are broke because they do not have a job or are under employed. How will all those coal company employees make ends meet when they loose their jobs?

Wonder how PA and WV will vote now that Obama is destroying a major part of their economy?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy, I agree with you on this. People are going broke because of the current healthcare system.
> That's why we have to try to change the system. And that's what Obamacare was/is trying to do.


But, Obamacare is not the right way to go. We need something, but not that.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Who will pay for the tests? If there is a major operation, who will pay for that? I can see people loosing their life savings and going in the red from health costs. It is scary.


The patients pay for the tests. The prices are set by the doctors. As for operations, these are not surgeons, but primary care doctors. I would imagine the individual person would have to decide which method is best for them. Health care savings accounts will come into play, but again, it is up to the individual. There are many doctors that do not like Obamacare and choose to not be apart of it. They are choosing this method, otherwise it is closing down their practice.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Maybe it'll work for a cold or strep throat. How about open-heart surgery? Chemotherapy? MRI? I guess if you're in the top 1% it doesn't matter. Maybe that's why so many of you seem to have trouble comprehending that healthcare is out of reach for so many people. You're too insulated from the rest of the population.


Boy is your bigotry showing. I am NOT in the top 1%, never have been and never will be, unless I win the lottery. I don't like Obamacare and do not think it will be a positive thing for this country. There are too many negatives which are being pointed out all the time. That was the problem with the whole process. It was voted on before it was read therefore no one knew exactly what they were voting for. Too many special interest groups had their hand in the bill to fatten their agendas. There are a number of Democrats that voted for the bill and are finally admitting that they didn't know the scope of the bill. Now the country is going to suffer because of their stupidity.

FYI, healthcare will still be out of reach for many of the people it was supposed to provide for.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Must you be so crass? Such a limited vocabulary.


Crass? My goodness, then you better get into your bible and cross that word out!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There is a growing number of doctors that are switching to a cash only operation. They will not accept health insurance of any kind. Instead, they will be offering to their patients lower costs for all procedures than the insurance companies offer. Many doctors feel this is the way to go as they no longer will have to pay outrageous malpractice insurance premiums. They can do the tests they feel are necessary and save the patient money. They can actually get back to the practice of medicine.


soloweygirl
What kind of fool would go to a Doctor who does not have excellent malpractice Insurance? Time will reveal how few Doctors will go to cash only. Those Doctors themselves will wind up on the Welfare roles. Not the kind of medical Pracitioner I trust my health and life to.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Please present said proof.


soloweygirl
That is easy to do. Very easy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes dear. That is a mistake.



Lukelucy said:


> Sorry. I made a mistake. I will always support KPG.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: Actually, my words are *not* still there - never have been! My words were deleted which is the point.
> 
> LTL: Don't worry about what the Brat calls me. Frankly, I've been told that is one of my best features many a time. :-D


4 pinnochios to you again! You reposted them on page 55.
Well, that all makes sense now, Because your brain is not one of your best features.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Who will pay for the tests? If there is a major operation, who will pay for that? I can see people loosing their life savings and going in the red from health costs. It is scary.


Lukelucy
You are so right.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> 4 pinnochios to you again! You reposted them on page 55.
> Well, that all makes sense now, Because your brain is not one of your best features.


Bratty Patty
Underlining my diagnosis.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The furor over Affordable Care is expected. Time will tell. What kind of Retirement Packages awaited these owner? Corporations will always look out for the top executives. Employees must always fend for themselves.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Boy is your bigotry showing. I am NOT in the top 1%, never have been and never will be, unless I win the lottery. I don't like Obamacare and do not think it will be a positive thing for this country. There are too many negatives which are being pointed out all the time. That was the problem with the whole process. It was voted on before it was read therefore no one knew exactly what they were voting for. Too many special interest groups had their hand in the bill to fatten their agendas. There are a number of Democrats that voted for the bill and are finally admitting that they didn't know the scope of the bill. Now the country is going to suffer because of their stupidity.
> 
> FYI, healthcare will still be out of reach for many of the people it was supposed to provide for.


Soloweygirl
why should it be out of reach for our Citizens when even 3rd world countries can afford it?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!

Visit _The Oasis_ over there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Did GOP support RomneyCare in Ma...a twin of Affordable Care? I think you are proving the issue is partisan.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Well .......... don't try to re-read the thousands of posts in this thread as there are many who do support Obamacare in this thread. I believe every one of them is a Lib and/or Dem. I do not remember a single Repub, Conserv, or Indep supporting OBC on this thread.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Suck it up.



Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare needs to go away somehow. Most people don't like it What can we do??


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare will not work..


Lukelucy
Obamacare will work as well as Medicare and Medicare has proven itself extremely beneficial to those who qualify for it. I know, I know you guys just cannot stand the name OBAMAcare. Get used to it, it will be around much, much longer than you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> 4 pinnochios to you again! You reposted them on page 55.
> Well, that all makes sense now, Because your brain is not one of your best features.


Key word "I" reposted them. You didn't, Pinnochio, you eliminated them, just as I've said all along. You really are not very good at this.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> But, Obamacare is not the right way to go. We need something, but not that.


Lukelucy
If it was called Romneycare you would celebrate because you like the white man better than the one with the permanent tan. 
We get it, you have made that perfectly clear over and over again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!
> 
> Visit _The Oasis_ over there.


Couldn't help yourself from spying, could you, Cherf? All that hot air you posted last night about not going there was just more flatulence out of you.
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Key word "I" reposted them. You didn't, Pinnochio, you eliminated them, just as I've said all along. You really are not very good at this.


Show me where I lied. You DID say that you wanted to copy and paste DP over in LOLL, did you not? That is what I said
BTW How long did it take you to go through 375 pages of my posts to find a caption printed under a cat photo? I see that you have removed it. In most cases I would be flattered, but you are downright sick!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Crass? My goodness, then you better get into your bible and cross that word out!


Bratty Patty
that and many, many others. The Bible has the greatest collection of nasty words.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Key word "I" reposted them. You didn't, Pinnochio, you eliminated them, just as I've said all along. You really are not very good at this.


Please.....you lie with the devil and probably best him at it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> that and many, many others. The Bible has the greatest collection of nasty words.


Amazing, how they pick such a simple word and turn it into something "crass", right Huck?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Couldn't help yourself from spying, could you, Cherf? All that hot air you posted last night about not going there was just more flatulence out of you.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


What _are_ you talking about? Do you even know. Nope. :-D :XD: :-D :XD:  :-D :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!
> 
> Visit _The Oasis_ over there.


knitpresentgifts
....do not call my name in vain"..... it's in your Bible.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!
> 
> Visit _The Oasis_ over there.





Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> ....do not call my name in vain"..... it's in your Bible.


You're He? I had NO idea.

Do NOT mock God. Learn the definition of Praise, understand what you wrote and stop being a false prophet.

Psalm 1:1 ESV 
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What _are_ you talking about? Do you even know. Nope. :-D :XD: :-D :XD:  :-D :XD:


knipresentgifts
still working with Crayons, arent you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knipresentgifts
> still working with Crayons, arent you.


 The big crayons, Huck. The regular ones are a litle difficult for her to pick up yet.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're He? I had NO idea.
> 
> Psalm 1:1 ESV
> Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;


Guess you are short many blessings.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Couldn't help yourself from spying, could you, Cherf? All that hot air you posted last night about not going there was just more flatulence out of you.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


You are such a class act, reminds me of a 10-12 year old male. Bet you even snort milk out of your nose when you hear the word 'underpants'


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You are such a class act, reminds me of a 10-12 year old male. Bet you even snort milk out of your nose when you hear the word 'underpants'


She's a winner alright.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You are such a class act, reminds me of a 10-12 year old male. Bet you even snort milk out of your nose when you hear the word 'underpants'


Isn't that word dirty in your book, LTL? How crass of you!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She's a winner alright.


Yes, I am. I have the president I voted for, a wonderful family and friends and the love for God in my heart.
Who could lose with all of that?
Oh, wait, you can!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Couldn't help yourself from spying, could you, Cherf? All that hot air you posted last night about not going there was just more flatulence out of you.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Out of the most beautiful part of her!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You are such a class act, reminds me of a 10-12 year old male. Bet you even snort milk out of your nose when you hear the word 'underpants'


No, I think it's your gang snorting like piggies.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She's a winner alright.


That's "all right." Two words.
When will your godliness start to kick in? Does it leave you whenever you start to post or are you always like this?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're He? I had NO idea.
> 
> Do NOT mock God. Learn the definition of Praise, understand what you wrote and stop being a false prophet.
> 
> ...


You know, you quoting the Bible is laughable. Your actions speak louder than your quotes. Good grief! What an example of a Christian!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're He? I had NO idea.
> 
> Do NOT mock God. Learn the definition of Praise, understand what you wrote and stop being a false prophet.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
Are you that dumb or just playing stupid. Go ask for help for yourself, desperately needed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> Are you that dumb or just playing stupid. Go ask for help for yourself, desperately needed.


In so many ways!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You know, you quoting the Bible is laughable. Your actions speak louder than your quotes. Good grief! What an example of a Christian!


A very poor one at that!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You know, you quoting the Bible is laughable. Your actions speak louder than your quotes. Good grief! What an example of a Christian!


alcameron
I and they wonder why church attendance is going down and down and down. Hopefully when these fools leave this Planet the next generation will behave in a Christian manner. Hope for change.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Maybe it'll work for a cold or strep throat. How about open-heart surgery? Chemotherapy? MRI? I guess if you're in the top 1% it doesn't matter. Maybe that's why so many of you seem to have trouble comprehending that healthcare is out of reach for so many people. You're too insulated from the rest of the population.


Maybe that is it, Andrea. Solowey, lukelucy, TM,lakelady, etc. are all part of the 1% that the GOP caters to. None of them have a care in the world. That would explain a lot of their behavior. It's also so convenient that they have taken Christ out of Christian doctrine. They can sneer at the poor and blame them for their poverty because they know a lazy good for nothing when they see one. Instead of the cross the $$$$ is their new logo. Now isn't that special?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> I and they wonder why church attendance is going down and down and down. Hopefully when these fools leave this Planet the next generation will behave in a Christian manner. Hope for change.


Some of these people like to talk about God and quote the Bible but it's all hollow when they behave like asps. (That's a-s-p, asp). Or they behave like that other a-- word. Being a Christian should affect your feelings about people, mold your behavior, and guide your thinking processes. If it's just a bunch of words, it isn't real Christianity.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> But, Obamacare is not the right way to go. We need something, but not that.


So what healthcare plan have the Republicans come up with?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So what healthcare plan have the Republicans come up with?


None, because they don't think healthcare is a problem as long as they have theirs.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> 4 pinnochios to you again! You reposted them on page 55.
> Well, that all makes sense now, Because your brain is not one of your best features.


Patty, KPG just can't keep up. Certainly not a great mind and very immature behavior. She sure is high maintenance and seems to believe she is entitled. I think lukelucy has been kissing up to her so much she has bought in to her own hype. I don't think she knows if she is coming or going anymore. She just rambles around making stupid comments and demanding apologies. What a dufus. Reminds me of solowey's behavior, lots of words and no cohesive thoughts coming out of her either. Just another dufus. TBBC


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> Obamacare will work as well as Medicare and Medicare has proven itself extremely beneficial to those who qualify for it. I know, I know you guys just cannot stand the name OBAMAcare. Get used to it, it will be around much, much longer than you.


No, Medicare has not proven to be as beneficial as you think. Medicare is the first to deny certain services to its beneficiaries. All the others follow suit soon after. You truly don't know as much about as you would like to think you do. I work with it every day. Give me my private insurer any day.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!
> 
> Visit _The Oasis_ over there.


Oh but you won't go over there will you TM. Solowey gave her word on that so you have to stay put. You can't let your big fat ego get in your way. I wonder how long you can hold out? Bets anyone?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No, Medicare has not proven to be as beneficial as you think. Medicare is the first to deny certain services to its beneficiaries. All the others follow suit soon after. You truly don't know as much about as you would like to think you do. I work with it every day. Give me my private insurer any day.


Why do you think people are admonishing, "keep your hands off my Medicare?"


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

I wonder what promises were made to get some of the congressmen to vote for it..... I think I'll look again at the legislation. 
You'll need to remember who is in the office now..... it's not the Republicans that are in office it won't be them making decisions about our bodies.... this includes everyone. We are going to have the same people who can't run the government on a budget control of 1/3 of the economy.......really???? You don't give the car keys to the three year old.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

Another thought..... congress has private insurance for life, they do not have Obama care... What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If it's so wonderful they have it too.....


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Why do you think people are admonishing, "keep your hands off my Medicare?"


Because those crying that phrase don't understand their benefits and what repercussions obamacare is going to have on them. Are you in the same group that has no true understanding of this very poorly written bill or do you just want it because your little man in the White House rammed it through? I do agree that healthcare needs revamping. However, what is being offered in the form of obamacare is not 'it'.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No, Medicare has not proven to be as beneficial as you think. Medicare is the first to deny certain services to its beneficiaries. All the others follow suit soon after. You truly don't know as much about as you would like to think you do. I work with it every day. Give me my private insurer any day.


thumper5316
Could I possibly have a Doctor in the House? Think about it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> Could I possibly have a Doctor in the House? Think about it.


I don't understand what you are driving at. Please clarify.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lydreina said:


> Another thought..... congress has private insurance for life, they do not have Obama care... What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If it's so wonderful they have it too.....


lydreina
They most likely will.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I don't understand what you are driving at. Please clarify.


thumper5316
You figure it out. Actually very clear. And in which capacity to you serve? Could test your medical knowledge and narrow it down, couldn't we?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lydreina said:


> Another thought..... congress has private insurance for life, they do not have Obama care... What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If it's so wonderful they have it too.....


I agree with you. They should have what the rest of the Americans will have. In my book, none of them have earned their pay or the insurance that they are provided.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No, Medicare has not proven to be as beneficial as you think. Medicare is the first to deny certain services to its beneficiaries. All the others follow suit soon after. You truly don't know as much about as you would like to think you do. I work with it every day. Give me my private insurer any day.


You can keep your private insurer, Thumper. But you already know that, right?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree with you. They should have what the rest of the Americans will have. In my book, none of them have earned their pay or the insurance that they are provided.


Bratty Patty
and we pay for while many of them have been doing nothing in return for over 4 years now. Time for change.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No, Medicare has not proven to be as beneficial as you think. Medicare is the first to deny certain services to its beneficiaries. All the others follow suit soon after. You truly don't know as much about as you would like to think you do. I work with it every day. Give me my private insurer any day.


Thumper,

Thank you for your post. I wish people would start to get smart. You know what is going on. They think all is solved. Obama is ruining our country.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> Thank you for your post. I wish people would start to get smart. You know what is going on. They think all is solved. Obama is ruining our country.


This is a recording .........


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You can keep your private insurer, Thumper. But you already know that, right?


Thumper says she works for an insurance company so why doesn't she just stay with her employer coverage?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is a recording .........


It beats being nasty and psycho.


----------



## lydreina (Jul 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You can keep your private insurer, Thumper. But you already know that, right?


But at what price???? My private insurance has gone up 40% from last year, and it's going again in September.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> You figure it out. Actually very clear. And in which capacity to you serve? Could test your medical knowledge and narrow it down, couldn't we?


I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities.

I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.

I've listed my knowledge of medical care. What are your credentials for understanding the intricacies of the workings of healthcare as a business? That's what it is, you know. A business, just like anything else.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lydreina said:


> But at what price???? My private insurance has gone up 40% from last year, and it's going again in September.


Funny, my husband's insurance hasn't gone up at all. I'd shop around if it were me.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities.
> 
> I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.
> 
> I've listed my knowledge of medical care. What are your credentials for understanding the intricacies of the workings of healthcare as a business? That's what it is, you know. A business, just like anything else.


And, with your final sentence, you have encapsulated the whole problem.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities.
> 
> I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.
> 
> I've listed my knowledge of medical care. What are your credentials for understanding the intricacies of the workings of healthcare as a business? That's what it is, you know. A business, just like anything else.


Thumper,

Thank you! The critics don't know what they are talking about. Sad story.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> And, with your final sentence, you have encapsulated the whole problem.


No, it is not a problem. When the government gets involved the gears stop working. It is business that keeps things going. You have it totally backwards.

You will never know what hit you when the government gets involved. All things go to pot. Business keeps things sharp.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny, my husband's insurance hasn't gone up at all. I'd shop around if it were me.


I wasn't aware that Medicaid had a monthly premium other than a spend down.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It beats being nasty and psycho.


Well , if you have to be repetitve, please leave the nasty and psycho behind. All 3 would be too much in one day


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I wasn't aware that Medicaid had a monthly premium other than a spend down.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well , if you have to be repetitve, please leave the nasty and psycho behind. All 3 would be too much in one day


Nasty, psycho. Nasty, psycho. Nasty, psycho.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I wasn't aware that Medicaid had a monthly premium other than a spend down.


Same old Thumper. Trying to be funny, but can't come close.
My DH is insured through a private insurer.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> And, with your final sentence, you have encapsulated the whole problem.


First, you need to understand that a large portion of the cost of healthcare is due to governmental reporting regulations. Second, I wasn't aware that doctors were to become indentured servants so as to serve at the will of their masters, the American public.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Nasty, psycho. Nasty, psycho. Nasty, psycho.


 You just proved my point.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper says she works for an insurance company so why doesn't she just stay with her employer coverage?


Where did I say I worked for an insurance company? Your reading comprehension needs work.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Same old Thumper. Trying to be funny, but can't come close.
> My DH is insured through a private insurer.


Give it time. It will go up. You will be taxed somehow. Do you really think it is FREE...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, it is not a problem. When the government gets involved the gears stop working. It is business that keeps things going. You have it totally backwards.
> 
> You will never know what hit you when the government gets involved. All things go to pot. Business keeps things sharp.


I watched a film on tv this evening called The Spirit of 1945. It deals with the British post-war Labour Government that brought our National Health Service into being, among other great achievements. It gave every citizen health care free at the point of need and raised public health to a level completely unknown before. I find it incomprehensible that you are having this argument in the 21st century.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Give it time. It will go up. You will be taxed somehow. Do you really think it is FREE...


Who said anything about it being free? He pays into the insurance pool that they have.
He just received a new boost in benefits without the premium going up at all. Where do you get your info?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I watched a film on tv this evening called The Spirit of 1945. It deals with the British post-war Labour Government that brought our National Health Service into being, among other great achievements. It gave every citizen health care free at the point of need and raised public health to a level completely unknown before. I find it incomprehensible that you are having this argument in the 21st century.


It baffles me too, Anne!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Who said anything about it being free? He pays into the insurance pool that they have.
> He just received a new boost in benefits without the premium going up at all. Where do you get your info?


What you write is hard to believe. I am not doubting your honesty. I'd like to see what happens in the future. And who is paying? More info is needed.

We are not getting away with Obamacare without paying dearly. My health insurance has gone WAY up. Out of sight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> What you write is hard to believe. I am not doubting your honesty. I'd like to see what happens in the future. And who is paying? More info is needed.
> 
> We are not getting away with Obamacare without paying dearly. My health insurance has gone WAY up. Out of sight.


Then I would suggest that you shop around for a new provider.
They are raising your premiums because they can. No other reason. He is paying the same monthly premium that he has for the last 9 years. They also cover the portion of medical care that Medicare doesn't cover for me.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lydreina said:


> But at what price???? My private insurance has gone up 40% from last year, and it's going again in September.


So your insurance premiums never went up before?? Give me a break.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then I would suggest that you shop around for a new provider.
> They are raising your premiums because they can. No other reason.


No I will not change my coverage. Can't you see that a business is a better place than the government to have health insurance?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> What you write is hard to believe. I am not doubting your honesty. I'd like to see what happens in the future. And who is paying? More info is needed.
> 
> We are not getting away with Obamacare without paying dearly. My health insurance has gone WAY up. Out of sight.


In California,
Premiums have come in at a much lower price than was predicted. Surprised?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No I will not change my coverage. Can't you see that a business is a better place than the government to have health insurance?


Nope.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> So your insurance premiums never went up before?? Give me a break.


At that rate?? You must be kidding. 
Doctors, hospitals, nurses, healthcare workers are up in arms over Obamacare.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nope.


Think about it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No I will not change my coverage. Can't you see that a business is a better place than the government to have health insurance?


Well, if you want to pay that exorbitent amount, then so be it.
But you really don't have to.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, if you want to pay that exorbitent amount, then so be it.
> But you really don't have to.


Yes, and have poor coverage. No thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> No, it is not a problem. When the government gets involved the gears stop working. It is business that keeps things going. You have it totally backwards.
> 
> You will never know what hit you when the government gets involved. All things go to pot. Business keeps things sharp.


Lukelucy
Go live in a cave or on some island. You know there are still a few places in the world where there is no government at all. In fact of almost 400 countries in the world there are still quite a number where you could live all by your lonesome.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huck, I don't see your posting listing your credentials qualifying you to speak with any knowledge about obamacare. You requested them from me. You should reply in kind.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Huck, I don't see your posting listing your credentials qualifying you to speak with any knowledge about obamacare. You requested them from me. You should reply in kind.


Can't believe they replied to my post saying there are governments everywhere. They are neglecting to recognize the kind of governments around the world and the increasing take over of our government.

Thumper, you are dealing with a group of people who lack intelligence. Can't fix stupid.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities.
> 
> I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.
> 
> I've listed my knowledge of medical care. What are your credentials for understanding the intricacies of the workings of healthcare as a business? That's what it is, you know. A business, just like anything else.


thumper5316
and that makes you an expert on Obamacare? I think not. By the way your view of Doctors is very dim, you should leave the field and earn your keep elsewhere. Without them who are you? You are an Engineer or Technician and a good one probably but a health care provider you certainly are not, so do not claim knowledge where you have none.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> and that makes you an expert on Obamacare? I think not.
> Your view of Doctors is very dim, you should leave the field and earn your keep elsewhere. Without them who are you?


Thumper, You are qualified to give the best opinion here. Your experience better qualifies you to voice an accurate opinion.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> and that makes you an expert on Obamacare? I think not. Your view of Doctors is very dim, you should leave the field and earn your keep elsewhere. Without them who are you?


I'd say it this way. Without me they would be broke, unemployed, and potentially facing prison time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'd say it this way. Without me they would be broke, unemployed, and potentially facing prison time.


I'm with you, Thumper.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, and have poor coverage. No thank you.


Our coverage is great! Other insurance companies are raising their rates and grandfathering in higher premiums before it becomes illegal to do so in 2014 thank to the AHCA. You still have time to find a company with a lower premium, LL.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Our coverage is great! Other insurance companies are raising their rates and grandfathering in higher premiums before it becomes illegal to do so in 2014.


Not raising rates does not make for good coverage.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Not raising rates does not make for good coverage.


LL, people who already have coverage won't be affected by this plan. Who told you that your medical care would change with AHCA? Can you please tell me about all of these taxes you referred to?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> LL, people who already have coverage won't be affected by this plan. Who told you that your medical care would change with AHCA? Can you please tell me about all of these taxes you referred to?


It is up to the state to decide how you will be affected. I live in a "liberal" state.

Free health care is not free. That is a lie.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

I agree with you aw!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It is up to the state to decide how you will be affected. I live in a "liberal" state.
> 
> Free health care is not free. That is a lie.


Nobody said it was free, LL. It is designed to make it easier for lower and middle class people to purchase insurance.
The only "free" benefit I have seen is that I get a free mammogram and pap smear every year.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I'd say it this way. Without me they would be broke, unemployed, and potentially facing prison time.


thumper3958
WOW that is quite an accusation. A very serious one at that.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nobody said it was free, LL. It is designed to make it easier for lower and middle class people to purchase insurance.
> The only "free" benefit I have seen is that I get a free mammogram and pap smear every year.


What I am saying is that we will all have to pay on top of what we are paying for others to be covered. I don't think that should happen.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> and that makes you an expert on Obamacare? I think not. By the way your view of Doctors is very dim, you should leave the field and earn your keep elsewhere. Without them who are you? You are an Engineer or Technician and a good one probably but a health care provider you certainly are not, so do not claim knowledge where you have none.


Again, I ask, what are your qualifications? What makes you more qualified or knowledgeable on obamacare or even the present state of healthcare than me?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I'm with you, Thumper.


Lukelucy
so you too accuse Doctors of being Criminals? That is quite a charge.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Huck, I don't see your posting listing your credentials qualifying you to speak with any knowledge about obamacare. You requested them from me. You should reply in kind.


thumper3958
I am well qualified but won't post my credentials here ever. Inquiring minds do not need to know, they are posted with authorities.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> LL, people who already have coverage won't be affected by this plan. Who told you that your medical care would change with AHCA? Can you please tell me about all of these taxes you referred to?


You can't be serious. You obviously know nothing about this.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Can't believe they replied to my post saying there are governments everywhere. They are neglecting to recognize the kind of governments around the world and the increasing take over of our government.
> 
> Thumper, you are dealing with a group of people who lack intelligence. Can't fix stupid.


Lukelucy
who posted that there are governments everywhere?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> so you too accuse Doctors of being Criminals? That is quite a charge.


Well, I see that you libs are keeping true to form with your ridiculously outlandish comments.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Not raising rates does not make for good coverage.


Lukelucy
If fees do not rise, better care does not either. Employees are entitled to raises also.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> What I am saying is that we will all have to pay on top of what we are paying for others to be covered. I don't think that should happen.


Who told you that? I have read the plan and nowhere does it state that. 98% of Americans will not see any increases in their taxes. Those who are uninsured and can afford insurance who refuse to purchase insurance will pay a penalty tax.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper3958
> I am well qualified but won't post my credentials here ever. Inquiring minds do not need to know, they are posted with authorities.


So, you have none. I thought so.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> It is up to the state to decide how you will be affected. I live in a "liberal" state.
> 
> Free health care is not free. That is a lie.


Lukelucy
there is not now nor ever will be or can be free health care. Who keeps telling you that story?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I was with a group of friends (don't know if they are libs or conservatives) and one brought up Obamacare. There were different opinions but the thread that was consistent was that all were afraid to talk to their doctors as openly as they had in the past. They (including myself) were terrified about what was being written down and who would read it and where was it stored. After all this IRS and Snoden stuff going on, everyone was apprehensive.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Again, I ask, what are your qualifications? What makes you more qualified or knowledgeable on obamacare or even the present state of healthcare than me?


thumper5316
a lot.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was with a group of friends (don't know if they are libs or conservatives) and one brought up Obamacare. There were different opinions but the thread that was consistent was that all were afraid to talk to their doctors as openly as they had in the past. They (including myself) were terrified about what was being written down and who would read it and where was it stored. After all this IRS and Snoden stuff going on, everyone was apprehensive.


They are prudent to be apprehensive. With the federal reporting requirements and interface capabilities with regards to all providers being on EMRs coming up the government's capacity to know everything about you is endless.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was with a group of friends (don't know if they are libs or conservatives) and one brought up Obamacare. There were different opinions but the thread that was consistent was that all were afraid to talk to their doctors as openly as they had in the past. They (including myself) were terrified about what was being written down and who would read it and where was it stored. After all this IRS and Snoden stuff going on, everyone was apprehensive.


Then maybe you should seek professional help for paranoia.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper5316
> a lot.


Gee, that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about the expertise behind your posts...not.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I was with a group of friends (don't know if they are libs or conservatives) and one brought up Obamacare. There were different opinions but the thread that was consistent was that all were afraid to talk to their doctors as openly as they had in the past. They (including myself) were terrified about what was being written down and who would read it and where was it stored. After all this IRS and Snoden stuff going on, everyone was apprehensive.


lovethelake
Now I have heard everything. This one is really for the books. O.K. give your Doctor no or false information and your life will be shortened. IRS and Snowden, really, really, really? What on earth do we have here.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> At that rate?? You must be kidding.
> Doctors, hospitals, nurses, healthcare workers are up in arms over Obamacare.


Definitely not the ones that I know. The nurses' union is promoting it as are several doctors and clinics in my area.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Gee, that just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about the expertise behind your posts...not.


thumper5316
good.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> Now I have heard everything. This one is really for the books. O.K. give your Doctor no or false information and your life will be shortened. IRS and Snowden, really, really, really? What on earth do we have here.


They're paranoid! They fear the wrong things. They should fear the fascist republicans leading their party.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You can't be serious. You obviously know nothing about this.


Hey, Thumper, don't discount the fact that other people may have opinions and knowledge regarding this. 
As I have said I have read and studied this and I am in no way afraid of it.
Now why don't you take your know it all mouth and sew it shut with one of your many sewing machines. Try the long arm. Sounds like you have a rather large head as it is.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then maybe you should seek professional help for paranoia.


That's what the right thrives on Patty, paranoia. The horror! They love to have the c--p scared out of them and then those lovely posters the teaparty carry around showing Obama as a witch doctor. You know the right is against critical thinking being taught in the schools so they buy into all this hook line and sinker. They are really gullible. I bet lakeladies name is on one of the "lists" most likely the "Redundant Dispose Of" one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Definitely not the ones that I know. The nurses' union is promoting it as are several doctors and clinics in my area.


alcameron
not just in your area I can assure you. Initially everyone was very apprehensive since so little was known about Obamacare but as more and more classes are given to teach about it, the medical field is beginning to relax. The unknown always awakes some fear. Some issues re. Obamacare have yet to be resolved. Adjustments are underway and will be continuous.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> They're paranoid! They fear the wrong things. They should fear the fascist republicans leading their party.


Andrea, you give them far too much credit. We need to be realistic about these people.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey, Thumper, don't discount the fact that other people may have opinions and knowledge regarding this.
> As I have said I have read and studied this and I am in no way afraid of it.
> Now why don't you take your know it all mouth and sew it shut with one of your many sewing machines. Try the long arm. Sounds like you have a rather large head as it is.


Most people with lower I.Q.s aren't afraid. So, I understand your lack of apprehension (let me know if I need to use a smaller word for you). One can't be afraid of something they can't understand.

As one of your cohorts has stated, we are entitled to our opinions.

I see you are still living up to your handle. Charming as ever.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> They're paranoid! They fear the wrong things. They should fear the fascist republicans leading their party.


alcameron
that would entail a lot of reading and they are not into such activities.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea, you give them far too much credit. We need to be realistic about these people.


Cheeky Blighter
you ain't kiddin Cheeky.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Most people with lower I.Q.s aren't afraid. So, I understand your lack of apprehension (let me know if I need to use a smaller word for you). One can't be afraid of something they can't understand.
> 
> As one of your cohorts has stated, we are entitled to our opinions.
> 
> I see you are still living up to your handle. Charming as ever.


Coming from the poster child of the Dunning-Kruger effect,
I'll take that as a compliment. :-D


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey, Thumper, don't discount the fact that other people may have opinions and knowledge regarding this.
> As I have said I have read and studied this and I am in no way afraid of it.
> Now why don't you take your know it all mouth and sew it shut with one of your many sewing machines. Try the long arm. Sounds like you have a rather large head as it is.


Bratty Patty
I can attest to you being well informed. Proud of you. How dumb she is shows her accusation about Doctors being Criminals. That will take me some time to digest. Some time and much thought as well. Will have to work on that.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> They're paranoid! They fear the wrong things. They should fear the fascist republicans leading their party.


Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?

I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

lydreina said:


> No she's back......


You may stay as BrattyPatty shows me pictures of the Raid Can. There are several here who want your input so stay and play.

Several here thinks they are powerful--not!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> I can attest to you being well informed. Proud of you. How dumb she is shows her accusation about Doctors being Criminals. That will take me some time to digest. Some time and much thought as well. Will have to work on that.


If they knew how she refers to them I wonder if she would still have a job?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?
> 
> I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


Not nice, LTL. Al has a brilliant mind of her own. She doesn't need "pack mentality" to express herself. 
Paranoid and fascists? Yes, really!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was with a group of friends (don't know if they are libs or conservatives) and one brought up Obamacare. There were different opinions but the thread that was consistent was that all were afraid to talk to their doctors as openly as they had in the past. They (including myself) were terrified about what was being written down and who would read it and where was it stored. After all this IRS and Snoden stuff going on, everyone was apprehensive.


Please explain this apprehension. Do you think your doctor doesn't take notes now?? If you trust your doctor, you trust your doctor. Why would you think your doctor is suddenly taking notes and sending them to Snowdon?? 
I am so glad to have joined this knitting forum. Never in a million years would I have come into contact with such people if I hadn't. I just didn't know there were so many non-thinking, rigid, paranoid people running around.
But never fear---I have to look this up, but I think the treatment for mental and emotional disorders will now be paid for under Obamacare.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You may stay as BrattyPatty shows me pictures of the Raid Can. There are several here who want your input so stay and play.
> 
> Several here thinks they are powerful--not!


And they will bait you by taking your comments out of context. Take heart. They do it because that's all they have and they hope it will silence you. That is their goal. Silence the opposition and silence the truth. That's how the Brown Shirts operated in Germany and it resulted in the rise of Hitler. We are close and I, personally, will no longer be silenced.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And they will bait you by taking your comments out of context. Take heart. They do it because that's all they have and they hope it will silence you. That is their goal. Silence the opposition and silence the truth. That's how the Brown Shirts operated in Germany and it resulted in the rise of Hitler. We are close and I, personally, will no longer be silenced.


Do you know that the Brown Shirts arose out of the political right??


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> thumper3958
> I am well qualified but won't post my credentials here ever. Inquiring minds do not need to know, they are posted with authorities.


Let me see, qualifications are one small rock past the glass house on the left. Correct? The authorities are in your prison office next to your cell on the left. See I inquired and now I know!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If they knew how she refers to them I wonder if she would still have a job?


God, I can't believe how stupid you are.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you know that the Brown Shirts arose out of the political right??


And now, here in the United States, they are rising out of the political left.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:



> Again, I ask, what are your qualifications? What makes you more qualified or knowledgeable on obamacare or even the present state of healthcare than me?


thumper5316
I just am, that simple. Keep reading and you shall find.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny, my husband's insurance hasn't gone up at all. I'd shop around if it were me.


My insurance hasn't gone up either and my BIL doctor doesn't have a problem with ACA. Funny how we only hear that premiums are going up from the right out here on KP. I worked for United HealthCare for several years. They are the Medica people. I have several friends who still work there and premiums aren't making any big jumps. I wonder what company Thumper works for? My sister worked for Blue Cross since 1969 and recently retired with company paid insurance coverage for the rest of her life. Doesn't sound like Blue Cross is all bent out of shape. I think the right is just reading from the playbook. If this were true here in Minneapolis why isn't it being picked up in the media. They have a Fox affiliate here and I haven't heard anything about rates going up. The insurance exchanges don't even become effective until January 1, 2014 and they open for business in October. Why aren't all the righties calling their insurance companies and complaining or better yet their representatives in Congress? As Judge Judy says "if it doesn't make sense it isn't the truth."


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And they will bait you by taking your comments out of context. Take heart. They do it because that's all they have and they hope it will silence you. That is their goal. Silence the opposition and silence the truth. That's how the Brown Shirts operated in Germany and it resulted in the rise of Hitler. We are close and I, personally, will no longer be silenced.


And there it is - the thread has reached a point where Godwin's Law takes effect.

We aren't trying to silence you - feel free to spout any nonsense you like. But, rest assured, we're not going to let your misinformation stand - we're going to point out your foolishness. It's really not hard - kinda like shooting fish in a barrel. You really need some new schtick.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, you have none. I thought so.


You got it sooooo right gal. Good to see you on this site lovely lady, missed you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?
> 
> I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


Forgive me, but I am defending, not attacking. I, too, am stating my thoughts and fears. My fear is that the political right, with their money and influence, will drive this country down the tubes, just like your group fears Obama. That's just how I feel. I see the rich getting richer and the middle class disappearing. Poverty is on the rise. People without healthcare, children malnourished, corporations fleeing the country so they can get cheap labor and avoid taxes. This stuff didn't start with Obama, it started with Ronald Reagan and the Democrats have tried and tried to turn the tide. People on the right are so blind that they can't see what's happening.
End of rant, time for dinner


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Please explain this apprehension. Do you think your doctor doesn't take notes now?? If you trust your doctor, you trust your doctor. Why would you think your doctor is suddenly taking notes and sending them to Snowdon??
> I am so glad to have joined this knitting forum. Never in a million years would I have come into contact with such people if I hadn't. I just didn't know there were so many non-thinking, rigid, paranoid people running around.
> But never fear---I have to look this up, but I think the treatment for mental and emotional disorders will now be paid for under Obamacare.


Not sending them to Snoden, sigh, you know that.

That comment about mental and emotional disorders was cruel and totally insensitive, especially if someone that reads this thread suffers from such an illness.

But I am glad you are checking into Obamacare's options for treatments. I hope you find the one that will fit your needs very soon.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I know, I know, I know, let me answer! It is Paula Deen on KP![/qu
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Not sending them to Snoden, sigh, you know that.
> 
> That comment about mental and emotional disorders was cruel and totally insensitive, especially if someone that reads this thread suffers from such an illness.
> 
> But I am glad you are checking into Obamacare's options for treatments. I hope you find the one that will fit your needs very soon.


Not cruel at all. People will be able to get help they couldn't afford.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I worked for United HealthCare for several years. They are the Medica people.


You are wrong. United HealthCare provides administrative services to Medica only. They are a vendor for them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And now, here in the United States, they are rising out of the political left.


I don't think so.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?
> 
> I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


Please spare us lakelady. You can really dish out the c--p so who do you think you are kidding? Certainly no one but perhaps yourself. You do sound paranoid and how is that name calling? It's hardly nasty. Andrea was suggesting that there are a lot more important things you should fear such as your own fascist party. Andrea and I are very close so don't tell me I can't speak for her. I know she won't mind. I bet you are on one of the lists of people who will be exterminated too. Maybe you should be worried about that but what the heck you might as well enjoy yourself now because Obama will get you sooner or later, right? Just funning you. You really aren't helpless. Contact everyone in the media, your insurance company, your government reps and complain. Don't just sit back and let it happen. You are smarter than that aren't you?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I watched a film on tv this evening called The Spirit of 1945. It deals with the British post-war Labour Government that brought our National Health Service into being, among other great achievements. It gave every citizen health care free at the point of need and raised public health to a level completely unknown before. I find it incomprehensible that you are having this argument in the 21st century.


aw9358
unbelievable isn't it. And they are shouting "we are the greatest country on Earth" continuously. Really? WE NO DOUBT were once and can be again but are far from it at present. The Republicans in Congress see to that. 43 Millions people without Health Care and almost 50% of the population could just about qualify for Welfare. What a record.
I have no words to describe how I feel about all of this. But you know, it could get worse. The Republicans are trying to destroy what is left of our educational system to always keep a large number of the population in need - cheap labor you know.
Thank you for your educated participation. It is greatly appreciated.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder what company Thumper works for?


I never said I worked for an insurance company and I don't.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You are wrong. United HealthCare provides administrative services to Medica only. They are a vendor for them.


Pardon my wording dear dear Thumper. My paycheck came from United HealthCare and Medica Insurance is their product. So what is your point dear Thumper? Who do you work for or is that a secret? Why don't you get coverage through your employer?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> God, I can't believe how stupid you are.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Talking to yourself again, Thumper?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> If they knew how she refers to them I wonder if she would still have a job?


Bratty Patty
I guarantee you not.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Pardon my wording dear dear Thumper. My paycheck came from United HealthCare and Medica Insurance is their product. So what is your point dear Thumper? Who do you work for or is that a secret? Why don't you get coverage through your employer?


She works for Fairview, Cheeky. Or so she stated in one of her past posts.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> And they will bait you by taking your comments out of context. Take heart. They do it because that's all they have and they hope it will silence you. That is their goal. Silence the opposition and silence the truth. That's how the Brown Shirts operated in Germany and it resulted in the rise of Hitler. We are close and I, personally, will no longer be silenced.


thumper5316
keep on talking thumper, we love to hear what you have to say. It sure is interesting, very intereting.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She works for Fairview, Cheeky. Or so she stated in on of her past posts.


I didn't say that either. You guys are really something.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, I know, I know, it is Ingrid's twin! Right? Do you really think I care who one of you people are in hiding? Not!


Janway
now and this is to point out what? Think about it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper/ I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities. 

I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.

I've listed my knowledge of medical care. What are your credentials for understanding the intricacies of the workings of healthcare as a business? That's what it is, you know. A business, just like anything else.



So what insurance companies did you provide software too of great and powerful thumper? Aren't you the same thumper who wrestles her dogs into submission so they know you are the boss? What you do does not make you an expert on healthcare dear. Are you still working or retired?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Do you know that the Brown Shirts arose out of the political right??


alcameron
and are still coming out of that corner today.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I don't think so.


alcameron
they no doubt are coming from the VERY right.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?
> 
> I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


You are not only sad but pathetic. What is your schtick anyway? Are you one of the righties that runs back and forth from KP to Ravelry or do you get enough attention here?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Last Sunday, you lamented about how conversations were nasty and and how you enjoyed the conservation that afternoon. So, I stated some of my thoughts and fears and you start with the name calling. Paranoid and fascists, really?
> 
> I tried, but when you are with your friends, you appear to fall into the pack and attack. How sad


No pack here. That would be you and your baboon friends who are so amusing.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She works for Fairview, Cheeky. Or so she stated in on of her past posts.


Bratty Patty
THANK YOU for being so observant. Saves me a lot of time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

She probably ran over to Ravelry to report. Or she is still looking up the Godwin Law.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> thumper/ I think I understand what you're after. I am an IT Business Analyst in the healthcare field. I build and configure medical EMR software to conform to the numerous regulations and specifications required by all payers for billing and any mandated reporting. This includes HL7, ANSI specs, billing requirements and the accompanying CPT, HCPCS, PQRI, and CCI edits, ICD9 (and the upcoming upgrade to ICD10), and clinical care modules and their supporting functionalities.
> 
> I have over 35 years in healthcare which includes all facets of running the business including management. Doctors are generally good at dispensing care. They are lousy when it comes to anything else in regards to the management of the business.
> 
> ...


Again, you have managed to, perhaps read what I wrote but, have totally missed the mark in comprehension.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She works for Fairview, Cheeky. Or so she stated in on of her past posts.


What she does does not make her an expert on healthcare. She is given a request from Fairview that would ask her for specific software products tailored to their needs. Expert, no way! In her own mind perhaps.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> God, I can't believe how stupid you are.


thumper5316
You top stupid by the widest of margins.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

"Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed."

Bratty Patty said:
And you know that, how? Really thumper, you really don't know it all.

[quoteThumper]
Um, because, as I stated I worked in the Fairview Healthcare system here in the non-hick city of Minneapolis?
[endquote] May 18, 2013


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Again, you have managed to, perhaps read what I wrote but, have totally missed the mark in comprehension.


tjumper5316
oh you wish for your sake.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> tjumper5316
> oh you wish for your sake.


It's that Dunning-Kruger effect again, Huck!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> "Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed."
> 
> Bratty Patty said:
> And you know that, how? Really thumper, you really don't know it all.
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> The word 'worked' is past tense.


Yes, I see that. I guess they got tired of you, too.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Not cruel at all. People will be able to get help they couldn't afford.


alcameron
just one of the services denied so many for so long.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She works for Fairview, Cheeky. Or so she stated in one of her past posts.


Bratty Patty
THANK YOU once again. I should pay you for your knowledge.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What she does does not make her an expert on healthcare. She is given a request from Fairview that would ask her for specific software products tailored to their needs. Expert, no way! In her own mind perhaps.


Cheeky Blighter
THANK YOU, I am far removed from being a software expert but know enough that I knew her credential were "expanded" shall we say.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

No charge, Huck!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> "Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed."
> 
> Bratty Patty said:
> And you know that, how? Really thumper, you really don't know it all.
> ...


Bratty Patty
THANK YOU once more.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Again, you have managed to, perhaps read what I wrote but, have totally missed the mark in comprehension.


So you develop coding software for Fairview, Diagnostic codes, Fee schedules, Competency and Credentialing, Physician Quality Reporting, Health Information Standards, etc. You also said you worked in all facets of running the business including management.
Please elaborate. Sorry, if I am not impressed. So are you retired or still working? What horrible things can we expect from ACA since you seem to be the self designated expert? Do tell?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I think thumper ran away, ladies. She wouldn't even stick around and answer our questions. I forgot her little smack at you Patty because you don't live in the huge metropolis of Mpls. like she does. I hope she doesn't live anywhere near me. I loved how she threw around her technical jargon to impress us. What a dweeb. Isn't she the one who wrestles her dogs or is that another rightie?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think thumper ran away, ladies. She wouldn't even stick around and answer our questions. I forgot her little smack at you Patty because you don't live in the huge metropolis of Mpls. like she does. I hope she doesn't live anywhere near me. I loved how she threw around her technical jargon to impress us. What a dweeb. Isn't she the one who wrestles her dogs or is that another rightie?


Wrestles her dogs? LOL You are kidding right? :XD: Like I stated before, Cheeky. Pointing out her misinformation is like shooting fish in a barrel!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wrestles her dogs? LOL You are kidding right? :XD: Like I stated before, Cheeky. Pointing out her misinformation is like shooting fish in a barrel!


No, one of them went on about having to wrestle their dogs and prove they were the alpha dog so the dogs would know she was the boss. This person also has sons that live with her or close by.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So you develop coding software for Fairview, Diagnostic codes, Fee schedules, Competency and Credentialing, Physician Quality Reporting, Health Information Standards, etc. You also said you worked in all facets of running the business including management.
> Please elaborate. Sorry, if I am not impressed. So are you retired or still working? What horrible things can we expect from ACA since you seem to be the self designated expert? Do tell?


Cheeky Blighter
THANK YOU it points out clearly that I was correct that medical knowledge she has not. A medical vocabulary she should have but for what she does, no medical science required. She is considered a Technician.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Did you hear that Ed Markey won Kerry's seat in Massachusetts?? Yay!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think thumper ran away, ladies. She wouldn't even stick around and answer our questions. I forgot her little smack at you Patty because you don't live in the huge metropolis of Mpls. like she does. I hope she doesn't live anywhere near me. I loved how she threw around her technical jargon to impress us. What a dweeb. Isn't she the one who wrestles her dogs or is that another rightie?


Bratty Patty
you live in the luxury outskirts of the large City? Jealous I am even though I live in a Park you know. Remember someone here told you and I confirmed.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Did you hear that Ed Markey won Kerry's seat in Massachusetts?? Yay!


alcameron
a fine Man who will serve ALL people well. He will do what is best for even those who did not vote for him. We need many more like him even if they were Republicans. It is the quality that counts not the affiliation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Did you hear that Ed Markey won Kerry's seat in Massachusetts?? Yay!


Good news. Thanks for sharing that, Andrea.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think thumper ran away, ladies. She wouldn't even stick around and answer our questions. I forgot her little smack at you Patty because you don't live in the huge metropolis of Mpls. like she does. I hope she doesn't live anywhere near me. I loved how she threw around her technical jargon to impress us. What a dweeb. Isn't she the one who wrestles her dogs or is that another rightie?


Cheeky Blighter
Dog wrestling? I hope she is not abusing the pooches.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good news. Thanks for sharing that, Andrea.


I was happy to see that! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Don't count your chickens until you know where they've ALL gone. I wonder just how seriously God values the praises that come from the foul-mouthed. (I'm referring to some of your amazing posts of the past...) I wonder how calloused your knees would be if you had ever spent any time on them.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Praise God! The oars are in the water and the chickens went home to roost!
> 
> Visit _The Oasis_ over there.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Don't count your chickens until you know where they've ALL gone. I wonder just how seriously God values the praises that come from the foul-mouthed. (I'm referring to some of your amazing posts of the past...) I wonder how calloused your knees would be if you had ever spent any time on them.


She has signed up in your group, SS. Tues Flight11 is KPG.
The quote on Ravelry in denim and Prada is almost word for word to the one you just quoted.


----------



## Mercygirl76 (Dec 30, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She has signed up in your group, SS. Tues Flight11 is KPG.
> The quote on Ravelry in denim and Prada is almost word for word to the one you just quoted.


Hey Patty!
All I can say to this is WOW. Are these adults?!

Haven't checked out this thread in months. Some of the ridiculous rants give me a headache. You, girlfriend, keep on keeping on. Your posts (as well as Huck's, Cheeky's and others) are so spot on.

Just want to add this tidbit to the conversation: my sister is a healthcare industry analyst who is currently tasked with auditing the insurance companies that are opting into the healthcare exchange. The audit includes review of the benefits to be offered, the policy provisions, the cost and the premiums. She has been involved in these reviews for over two years. She is an expert in all things AHCA. She has stated unequivocally that healthcare premiums of those already insured will not rise significantly if at all. Over time, premiums will fall because of the larger pool of insureds and competition within the exchange for those insureds. Overall, as you know, this will be good for individuals, municipalities and hospital districts AND business.

Oh, and in case anyone wants to know credentials, my sister has an undergrad degree and two advanced degrees, one in business and the other in healthcare administration. She's worked in her industry for over 30 years.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Hey Patty!
> All I can say to this is WOW. Are these adults?!
> 
> Haven't checked out this thread in months. Some of the ridiculous rants give me a headache. You, girlfriend, keep on keeping on. Your posts (as well as Huck's, Cheeky's and others) are so spot on.
> ...


Hey Mercygirl!
Thanks for your post. For the life of me I don't know how they got to be so misinformed. As I posted before, a lot of insurance companies are raising premiums and grandfathering in those higher premiums before 2014 when it will become illegal to do that. They have a chance to switch to a company with lower premiums, but refuse to do so.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Hey Patty!
> All I can say to this is WOW. Are these adults?!
> 
> Haven't checked out this thread in months. Some of the ridiculous rants give me a headache. You, girlfriend, keep on keeping on. Your posts (as well as Huck's, Cheeky's and others) are so spot on.
> ...


Mercygirl76
Thank you for taking the time to give all of us this valuable information and thanks to your Sister. Nothing is as important as being well informed. All too many people are being misled.
Huck


----------



## Mercygirl76 (Dec 30, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Mercygirl76
> Thank you for taking the time to give all of us this valuable information and thanks to your Sister. Nothing is as important as being well informed. All too many people are being misled.
> Huck


Certainly is a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering going on here! And it seems like the loudest nastiest ones are spreading the most unnecessary fear. So sad.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Certainly is a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering going on here! And it seems like the loudest nastiest ones are spreading the most unnecessary fear. So sad.


Yes it is sad. There is one who is so dependent on others in her group to form her opinions for her.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember the Minneapolis comment. I missed the dog whisperer. I'd just love a picture. Talk about viral! Teacup poodles? Dobermans? Regardless, I hope animal control takes them away from her and finds them a good home. TBBC.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think thumper ran away, ladies. She wouldn't even stick around and answer our questions. I forgot her little smack at you Patty because you don't live in the huge metropolis of Mpls. like she does. I hope she doesn't live anywhere near me. I loved how she threw around her technical jargon to impress us. What a dweeb. Isn't she the one who wrestles her dogs or is that another rightie?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just gives you the idea how dedicated and persistent someone can be.



lovethelake said:


> What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. Later.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


Good morning lovely lady, it rained during the night so everything looks refreshed after a good drink of water. Still hot at 86 high expected today!

I will have a busy day with the knitting group as I'm behind with knitting because of the illness. We enjoy 2 - 3 hours together with a lot of chatting/coffee/knitting/crochet.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Certainly is a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering going on here! And it seems like the loudest nastiest ones are spreading the most unnecessary fear. So sad.


Say what? Don't throw any stones from your glass house!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Just gives you the idea how dedicated and persistent someone can be.


and unequivocally wrong and stupid.

The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.

Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

Good morning!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You can't be serious. You obviously know nothing about this.


Thumper,

They are crazy. I pity what doctors have to go through. Doctors are victims of Obamacare. I think Huckleberry has a serious mental problem.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Who told you that? I have read the plan and nowhere does it state that. 98% of Americans will not see any increases in their taxes. Those who are uninsured and can afford insurance who refuse to purchase insurance will pay a penalty tax.


You must be kidding. Where is this money coming from. Where does government money come from? Us - you and me. Do not tell me that we are not paying for this.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She has signed up in your group, SS. Tues Flight11 is KPG.
> The quote on Ravelry in denim and Prada is almost word for word to the one you just quoted.


Bratty are you really that ignorant of the facts? I guess you are.

Someone other than me knows something about life and civics since TuesFlight11 quoted the same man as I did. I don't post on Ravelry yet I'm pleased to be in her company. These words sound familiar:

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
Jeremiah Wright


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bratty are you really that dumb? I guess you are.
> 
> "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."
> Jeremiah Wright


Obumma is heading us into another war. Obamacare is ruinous. We are heading down, down, down.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Just heard the Senator from Senator Joe Manchin Democrat from West Virginia. He is furious at Obama over the coal restrictions he announced yesterday. He was asked on a scale from 1-10 how angry are you at Obama, and he replied there was not a scale high enough for him to give a number.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just heard the Senator from Senator Joe Manchin Democrat from West Virginia. He is furious at Obama over the coal restrictions he announced yesterday. He was asked on a scale from 1-10 how angry are you at Obama, and he replied there was not a scale high enough for him to give a number.


Right. Lots of people feel the way he does. Good for him. More people should look around and see what is happening.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Out of the top 10 coal producing states 6 have Republican governors. Seems spiteful to me.

Think of how many coal manufacturing companies could have been retro fitted or improved with all the money given to the bankrupt "green companies". Think of how cleaner our air could be if the money had been well spent and not wasted.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and unequivocally wrong and stupid.
> 
> The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.
> 
> Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


Once again, the good lady shows her true self. Because someone has a differing opinion, s/he is wrong and stupid. Goodness personified.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You must be kidding. Where is this money coming from. Where does government money come from? Us - you and me. Do not tell me that we are not paying for this.


Of course you're paying for this. People pay their own premiums now unless they're lucky enough to have an employer who pays for,them.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Remember kpg when she called people that disapprove or fear Obamacare paranoid and mentally ill?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Of course you're paying for this. People pay their own premiums now unless they're lucky enough to have an employer who pays for,them.


And healthcare for the rest? Who pays for that??


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Remember kpg when she called people that disapprove or fear Obamacare paranoid and mentally ill?


Actually, no I don't. I've been skipping a lot of posts on this thread as much is simply noise.

Sorry, I don't know who you are referring to.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And healthcare for the rest? Who pays for that??


illegal aliens


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> illegal aliens


That's a good one. Thanks.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/29/illegal-aliens-already-eligible-for-retirement-programs-says-heritage-foundation-critic/


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Just think with Obama's new 'let's kill the coal industry' program how many more people will lose their jobs and. How will that help pay for Obamacare?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


lovethelake
How we spend our time is our business. Interesting to dig through "stuff". Of course you would never do anything like that, would you! How do you know it was 6 weeks ago. Gotcha.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Certainly is a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering going on here! And it seems like the loudest nastiest ones are spreading the most unnecessary fear. So sad.


Mercygirl76
Some folks are literally drowning in misinformation and wonder why they are so miserable.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> How we spend our time is our business. Interesting to dig through "stuff". Of course you would never do anything like that, would you!


Nope, do not have the interest or the time to reread 6 weeks of comments. If that fills someone's lonely hours, I am happy they found something to do.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Say what? Don't throw any stones from your glass house!


Janeway
Our glass houses are bullet proof, haven't you noticed?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and unequivocally wrong and stupid.
> 
> The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.
> 
> Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


knipresentgifts
our finances should never concern you. We have experts to handle those.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


It took all of 4 minutes, LTL.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just think with Obama's new 'let's kill the coal industry' program how many more people will lose their jobs and. How will that help pay for Obamacare?


Obumma is hiding a lot of info from the public. He is killing America. Social Security to illegal aliens when SS is running out for legal American's is over the top.

Yes, jobs will be lost. It is a tragedy that he is president.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> They are crazy. I pity what doctors have to go through. Doctors are victims of Obamacare. I think Huckleberry has a serious mental problem.


Lukelucy
Huckleberry here. Problems I have none, thumper does.
You need to addresss thumper, she thinks that doctors are criminals.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> That's an opinion. I might add that the Republican Party has spent $400 million in advertising to try to make people believe this.


Obamacare will work.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Praise God! Praise all Gods and Goddesses! Praise all people who made this possible! The Supreme Court struck down DOMA!!! They found that California's Prop 8 had no standing with the Supreme Court. This is a great day in American history and I am incredibly glad I have been here to see it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Obumma is heading us into another war. Obamacare is ruinous. We are heading down, down, down.


Lukelucy
Go untwist your bloomers, your circulation is suffering.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You must be kidding. Where is this money coming from. Where does government money come from? Us - you and me. Do not tell me that we are not paying for this.


Lukelucy
Is gloom and doom the only thing you and your friends know? What a dismal life you are leading. Go smell the roses in the park the immigrants so lovingly take care of.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and unequivocally wrong and stupid.
> 
> The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.
> 
> Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


Here we go agian, Cherf. Go back and read the plan. After 2014 insurance companies will not be able to raise premiums.
Look up 80/20 in the plan, ass. I can see you are also the poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, do not have the interest or the time to reread 6 weeks of comments. If that fills someone's lonely hours, I am happy they found something to do.


Now she's repeating herself. But did you know that KPG went through 375 pages of my posts to find a caption under a cat picture to post. She ultimately edited it. Now there is a sad and lonely person for you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, do not have the interest or the time to reread 6 weeks of comments. If that fills someone's lonely hours, I am happy they found something to do.


Now she's repeating herself. But did you know that KPG went through 375 pages of my posts to find a caption under a cat picture to post? She ultimately edited it. Now there is a sad and lonely person for you.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Praise God! Praise all Gods and Goddesses! Praise all people who made this possible! The Supreme Court struk down DOMA!!! They found that California's Prop 8 had no standing with the Supreme Court. This is a great day in American history and I am incredibly glad I have been here to see it.


I've been watching!!! Hooray!!! Freedom for all - at last! AND SB5 in Texas is out.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


Is it true, LL? Where did you hear that?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it true, LL? Where did you hear that?


It was posted on a news website today.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bratty are you really that ignorant of the facts? I guess you are.
> 
> Someone other than me knows something about life and civics since TuesFlight11 quoted the same man as I did. I don't post on Ravelry yet I'm pleased to be in her company. These words sound familiar:
> 
> ...


Give it up. I don't believe one word that comes out of your mouth.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obumma is heading us into another war. Obamacare is ruinous. We are heading down, down, down.


Ok Henny Penny, don't look up!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

High time we focus on energy other than coal as many other countries have done already. Their mines are now places for pleasant activities and no longer pits for getting black lung disease. I wish the miners jobs where they no longer have to worry about not reaching retirement age. If the Republicans stop working against us and for us and support rebuilding and modernising our Infrastructure, miners can work above ground and no longer in dark, dirty, unhealthy pits. I am sure they welcome such changes. The mine owners have made their money while the miners gave their health. Time the miners have a chance to live without daily fear of injury, death and diseases.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Mercygirl76 said:


> Hey Patty!
> All I can say to this is WOW. Are these adults?!
> 
> Haven't checked out this thread in months. Some of the ridiculous rants give me a headache. You, girlfriend, keep on keeping on. Your posts (as well as Huck's, Cheeky's and others) are so spot on.
> ...


Thanks for your post Mercygirl. The righties buy in to all the stuff that the GOP puts out there and it is so disgusting. They never will say anything the Administration does is good but they are always the first ones in line when anything is being handed out. They are so afraid someone else is going to get something and they will lose out. Many are Christian in name only. They sure don't practice what Jesus taught.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It was posted on a news website today.


Which one?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Which one?


Forgot. It's all over the place.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I find sad is that to fill one's day the only thing someone has to do is read over 6 weeks of posts so to name a company where someone works. Think of how much knitting someone could have accomplished instead of reading hundreds of pages of old posts.


So quit wasting your time here and go knit. Close the door behind you please. We won't miss you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and unequivocally wrong and stupid.
> 
> The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.
> 
> Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


Look ladies, the big talking head is here. Blah blah blah. It makes no sense at all. The giant ego is all that is left of it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> They are crazy. I pity what doctors have to go through. Doctors are victims of Obamacare. I think Huckleberry has a serious mental problem.


And you lukelucy don't know what you are talking about. Just another talking head.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I've been watching!!! Hooray!!! Freedom for all - at last! AND SB5 in Texas is out.


Soon we'll be seeing same-sex marriages made legal in the 37 states still don't permit. I don't have enough words to say how much the Supreme Court's rulings today. I think of my homosexual friends and what this means to them. The scene inside and outside San Francisco's City Hall is so inspiring.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right. Lots of people feel the way he does. Good for him. More people should look around and see what is happening.


Yes you may want to try it yourself instead of just reposting other people's posts. Can't think of anything on your own lukebumma?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right. Lots of people feel the way he does. Good for him. More people should look around and see what is happening.


Yes you may want to try it yourself instead of just reposting other people's posts. Can't think of anything on your own lukebumma?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Forgot. It's all over the place.


Of course.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Of course.


Isn't that typical??


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't that typical??


Just did a search - not a word. No surprise there.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Actually, no I don't. I've been skipping a lot of posts on this thread as much is simply noise.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know who you are referring to.


Why are you even out here? I think you are a man with a sagging ego who constantly needs reassurance and attention from others. 
What you post is nothing but you personal opinions. You and lakelady and luke and soloweyshould scurry back to your little hole over on Ravelry. You also have no class or social graces at all and no one was surprised when you became a member of Oasis. It is you on the right who follows we ladies on the left where ever we go. You just have to rain on every bodies parade don't you. You are a real piece of work. Do you walk into your neighbor's houses uninvited too? Must have been raised by a pack of wild animals. You have no self control do you?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Here it is:

Not surprised you would doubt.

http://news.yahoo.com/americans-oppose-obamacare-social-security-illegal-immigrants-made-215958056.html


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


Go back and read the article in the link you provided. NOWHERE does it say that Obamacare gives illegals Social Security. Maybe you just read the topic headline and drew your conclusions from there?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks, Cheeky. Some righties are trying to join The Oasis, and I am so glad that, as moderator, I can deal with them and keep The Oasis a safe place for the kinds of discussions lefties here and in other topics value so much.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Why are you even out here? I think you are a man with a sagging ego who constantly needs reassurance and attention from others.
> What you post is nothing but you personal opinions. You and lakelady and luke and soloweyshould scurry back to your little hole over on Ravelry. You also have no class or social graces at all and no one was surprised when you became a member of Oasis. It is you on the right who follows we ladies on the left where ever we go. You just have to rain on every bodies parade don't you. You are a real piece of work. Do you walk into your neighbor's houses uninvited too? Must have been raised by a pack of wild animals. You have no self control do you?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


Lukelucy
an other story being circulated by Fox an friends.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just think with Obama's new 'let's kill the coal industry' program how many more people will lose their jobs and. How will that help pay for Obamacare?


Many of those miners will lose their lives before they lose their jobs.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Obumma is hiding a lot of info from the public. He is killing America. Social Security to illegal aliens when SS is running out for legal American's is over the top.
> 
> Yes, jobs will be lost. It is a tragedy that he is president.


Lukelucy
tragedy is that so many people have a constant need for lying and circulating false information, that is a tragedy.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Obamacare will work.


GWPIver
You are right, it will and well.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Look ladies, the big talking head is here. Blah blah blah. It makes no sense at all. The giant ego is all that is left of it.


Not to mention the hot air.....


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Praise God! Praise all Gods and Goddesses! Praise all people who made this possible! The Supreme Court struck down DOMA!!! They found that California's Prop 8 had no standing with the Supreme Court. This is a great day in American history and I am incredibly glad I have been here to see it.


Here, here.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obumma is heading us into another war. Obamacare is ruinous. We are heading down, down, down.


And what war might that be?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I've been watching!!! Hooray!!! Freedom for all - at last! AND SB5 in Texas is out.


GWPIver
a remarkable accomplishment for the woman (unfortunately her name escapes me) speaking all those hours under the most difficult circumstances. We may have to prepare for more of these sessions. I can supply special attire to keep the body upright. Wow the endurance of that lady is extraordinary.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is it true, LL? Where did you hear that?


Bratty Patty
Faux has posted this kind of crap. I am proud of myself for using a 4-letter word. Not really my style.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> It was posted on a news website today.


Bratty Patty
you know that Faux news website as usual.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Give it up. I don't believe one word that comes out of your mouth.


Bratty Patty
let her ramble. She is trying to get into guiness records for the most lies told in the shortest period of time. You can well magine what the title of the section is.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> High time we focus on energy other than coal as many other countries have done already. Their mines are now places for pleasant activities and no longer pits for getting black lung disease. I wish the miners jobs where they no longer have to worry about not reaching retirement age. If the Republicans stop working against us and for us and support rebuilding and modernising our Infrastructure, miners can work above ground and no longer in dark, dirty, unhealthy pits. I am sure they welcome such changes. The mine owners have made their money while the miners gave their health. Time the miners have a chance to live without daily fear of injury, death and diseases.


minor correction: modernizing, sorry.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> minor correction: modernizing, sorry.


Looks fine to me, Huck.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Here it is:
> 
> Not surprised you would doubt.
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/americans-oppose-obamacare-social-security-illegal-immigrants-made-215958056.html


"Who would get welfare and other benefits under immigration reform is a complicated and still-unanswered question, with Congress far from done debating immigration legislation. "

Note that it is in debate still.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> GWPIver
> a remarkable accomplishment for the woman (unfortunately her name escapes me) speaking all those hours under the most difficult circumstances. We may have to prepare for more of these sessions. I can supply special attire to keep the body upright. Wow the endurance of that lady is extraordinary.


Representative Wendy Davis.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And healthcare for the rest? Who pays for that??


We already pay for it when people without health insurance end up at the ER.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> We already pay for it when people without health insurance end up at the ER.


I don't get why so many people don't understand this point. Your taxes are already paying for medical services.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We already pay for it when people without health insurance end up at the ER.


Yes, correct. However it will be worse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Representative Wendy Davis.


GWPIver
Thank you I shall file her name with other remarkable people.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> We already pay for it when people without health insurance end up at the ER.


alcamero
can anyone believe they still do not know this when we have done so forever? Obamacare will give those of us who pitched in all along a little relief.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, correct. However it will be worse.


Lukelucy
are you by any chance taking some medication which makes you so negative? 99% of your postings are so dark, so depressing. What a sad way to live.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, correct. However it will be worse.


Why do you think that? Just curious....


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> What kind of fool would go to a Doctor who does not have excellent malpractice Insurance? Time will reveal how few Doctors will go to cash only. Those Doctors themselves will wind up on the Welfare roles. Not the kind of medical Pracitioner I trust my health and life to.


Well Huckleberry, just because a doctor pays outrageous amounts of money for malpractice insurance, doesn't mean it is excellent coverage. I mentioned that this is a growing trend. Maybe many of these undecided doctors will just close up their practices and be done with it. Where will that leave all the people? More doctors will be overworked and thus will supply much less substantial care than they currently are. They will have no choice. You too will suffer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> That is easy to do. Very easy.


If it is so easy to do, then what is keeping you from doing so? Other than the fact you have nothing to show. All talk, no action.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Well Huckleberry, just because a doctor pays outrageous amounts of money for malpractice insurance, doesn't mean it is excellent coverage. I mentioned that this is a growing trend. Maybe many of these undecided doctors will just close up their practices and be done with it. Where will that leave all the people? More doctors will be overworked and thus will supply much less substantial care than they currently are. They will have no choice. You too will suffer.


Soloweygirl,

Exactly. That is what I am trying to say. Doctors are already closing up shop or not taking insurance. Cash.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I watched a film on tv this evening called The Spirit of 1945. It deals with the British post-war Labour Government that brought our National Health Service into being, among other great achievements. It gave every citizen health care free at the point of need and raised public health to a level completely unknown before. I find it incomprehensible that you are having this argument in the 21st century.


A big difference in our two systems is ours is a money making enterprise, yours isn't. Doctors can make millions of dollars in their private practices. Obviously the insurance companies are making their fair share as well. Although you have some private insurance companies, the roots of you system is through the government. Ours isn't and this is what they want to change. It's not easy to wipe out a system that has been allow to grow to its current state and expect it to go smoothly. Also, the way it was done was less than popular.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A big difference in our two systems is ours is a money making enterprise, yours isn't. Doctors can make millions of dollars in their private practices. Obviously the insurance companies are making their fair share as well. Although you have some private insurance companies, the roots of you system is through the government. Ours isn't and this is what they want to change. It's not easy to wipe out a system that has been allow to grow to its current state and expect it to go smoothly. Also, the way it was done was less than popular.


More than less than popular. People from all over the world come to the USA for better health care. I feel this will be deteriorated because of Obamacare.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Again, I ask, what are your qualifications? What makes you more qualified or knowledgeable on obamacare or even the present state of healthcare than me?


Thumper you will never get any information from Huckleberry, because there is none to get. Why do you keep on arguing with her? Why are you answering her questions and expecting something in return? She is not qualified in any way, shape or form and certainly does not have knowledge on Obamacare. In fact, reading her posts reveals she has no knowledge on anything.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Well Huckleberry, just because a doctor pays outrageous amounts of money for malpractice insurance, doesn't mean it is excellent coverage. I mentioned that this is a growing trend. Maybe many of these undecided doctors will just close up their practices and be done with it. Where will that leave all the people? More doctors will be overworked and thus will supply much less substantial care than they currently are. They will have no choice. You too will suffer.


soloweygirl
Except for a few Specialties, the Premium a Doctor has to pay is a good indicator how good or poor a Doctor is. I hang around those who have rarely or never been sued. Easy to research these days. I would never frequent a Doctor who carries no Insurance, he/she who would do so is arrogant.
The only Doctors who will close their Offices are those who are
old enough to be able to afford such a move. The arguments you are trying to make have been around for many decades and never realized. Shortages of Doctors have only happened in rural areas due to not enough Patients. Cities are not suffering a shortage.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey, Thumper, don't discount the fact that other people may have opinions and knowledge regarding this.
> As I have said I have read and studied this and I am in no way afraid of it.
> Now why don't you take your know it all mouth and sew it shut with one of your many sewing machines. Try the long arm. Sounds like you have a rather large head as it is.


Wow, another mature post from a liberal. How nice.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Wow, another mature post from a liberal. How nice.


soloweygirl
try to match it sometime.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thumper you will never get any information from Huckleberry, because there is none to get. Why do you keep on arguing with her? Why are you answering her questions and expecting something in return? She is not qualified in any way, shape or form and certainly does not have knowledge on Obamacare. In fact, reading her posts reveals she has no knowledge on anything.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Thumper you will never get any information from Huckleberry, because there is none to get. Why do you keep on arguing with her? Why are you answering her questions and expecting something in return? She is not qualified in any way, shape or form and certainly does not have knowledge on Obamacare. In fact, reading her posts reveals she has no knowledge on anything.


 :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Out of the top 10 coal producing states 6 have Republican governors. Seems spiteful to me.
> 
> Think of how many coal manufacturing companies could have been retro fitted or improved with all the money given to the bankrupt "green companies". Think of how cleaner our air could be if the money had been well spent and not wasted.


The idea behind Obama's plan against the coal industry is for America to pay the price to be a moral example on climate to the rest of the world. He wants other nations to follow suit. The problem is that the world doesn't care about America's carbon footprint.

Obama's announcement will be good news for his patrons and political partners in "green energy" and the natural gas businesses who have already benefited from his policies.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> Except for a few Specialties, the Premium a Doctor has to pay is a good indicator how good or poor a Doctor is. I hang around those who have rarely or never been sued. Easy to research these days. I would never frequent a Doctor who carries no Insurance, he/she who would do so is arrogant.
> The only Doctors who will close their Offices are those who are
> old enough to be able to afford such a move. The arguments you are trying to make have been around for many decades and never realized. Shortages of Doctors have only happened in rural areas due to not enough Patients. Cities are not suffering a shortage.


I was not talking about a doctor that does not have or planned to cancel the malpractice insurance. I said that doctors are not dealing with insurance companies. Those companies are the patients insurance companies. Doctors of all ages are deciding whether or not to close their practices. Do some actual research on that. You might also check into the cities being in a doctor shortage.

Thumper, I am doing what I scolded you for doing. This shall stop.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> try to match it sometime.


Then I will be as low as the brat. I value myself too much to slip to that level.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The idea behind Obama's plan against the coal industry is for America to pay the price to be a moral example on climate to the rest of the world. He wants other nations to follow suit. The problem is that the world doesn't care about America's carbon footprint.
> 
> Obama's announcement will be good news for his patrons and political partners in "green energy" and the natural gas businesses who have already benefited from his policies.


My impression is that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world in environmental matters. For example, the US did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol, while around 37 countries have agreed to legally binding agreements on carbon emissions. The rest of the world cares very much about America's carbon footprint.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then I will be as low as the brat. I value myself too much to slip to that level.


You have already surpassed it dear. Maybe you need to replace your batteries?? Or get a new toy altogether?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Wow, another mature post from a liberal. How nice.


How nice? Stealing my line agian, solowey? Of course you are. Nothing original comes out of you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks, Cheeky. Some righties are trying to join The Oasis, and I am so glad that, as moderator, I can deal with them and keep The Oasis a safe place for the kinds of discussions lefties here and in other topics value so much.


No problem SS. They need to be exposed for the creepers they are. KPG can't resist us and sure likes to rain on other people's parade. No class or good manners from that quarter just lots of ugly behavior.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You have already surpassed it dear. Maybe you need to replace your batteries?? Or get a new toy altogether?


Patty solowey is only a BrattyPatty wannabee. There is only one way she can see you and that's from her spot in the gutter looking up at you. The woman wrestles dogs to show them who is boss and the alpha animal for goodness sake. What kind of person lives like that? I wonder what neighborhood she dwells in so I can stay away from it. Sounds like "she" has too much testosterone in her system. Maybe that's why she is so hostile and angry all the time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> My impression is that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world in environmental matters. For example, the US did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol, while around 37 countries have agreed to legally binding agreements on carbon emissions. The rest of the world cares very much about America's carbon footprint.


aw9358
unfortunately it is reality that we are limping behind other countries, actually in many respects, but do not expect some people here to KNOW that. They are even in a fog when it comes to very local issues. Fortunate is that the young are tuning in to what needs to be done - the majority of folks here are at an age where they no longer seem to really care or understand.


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Thumper you will never get any information from Huckleberry, because there is none to get. Why do you keep on arguing with her? Why are you answering her questions and expecting something in return? She is not qualified in any way, shape or form and certainly does not have knowledge on Obamacare. In fact, reading her posts reveals she has no knowledge on anything.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: True.


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty solowey is only a BrattyPatty wannabee. There is only one way she can see you and that's from her spot in the gutter looking up at you. The woman wrestles dogs to show them who is boss and the alpha animal for goodness sake. What kind of person lives like that? I wonder what neighborhood she dwells in so I can stay away from it. Sounds like "she" has too much testosterone in her system. Maybe that's why she is so hostile and angry all the time.


Solo is not a Bratty wannabe (you cannot even spell it correctly).

:hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :?: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> unfortunately it is reality that we are limping behind other countries, actually in many respects, but do not expect some people here to KNOW that. They are even in a fog when it comes to very local issues. Fortunate is that the young are tuning in to what needs to be done - the majority of folks here are at an age where they no longer seem to really care or understand.


Your qualifications on this subject are???????????


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> unfortunately it is reality that we are limping behind other countries, actually in many respects, but do not expect some people here to KNOW that. They are even in a fog when it comes to very local issues. Fortunate is that the young are tuning in to what needs to be done - the majority of folks here are at an age where they no longer seem to really care or understand.


Thank you for your response, Huck. I sometimes feel a bit of a spare part on here. I put something forward, it falls into a big hole and the thread continues without a ripple. I don't want to have massive rows, just try to widen the scope occasionally.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> Solo is not a Bratty wannabe (you cannot even spell it correctly).
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :?: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Soloweygirl is great. Leave her alone. You are the problem.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Soloweygirl,
> 
> Exactly. That is what I am trying to say. Doctors are already closing up shop or not taking insurance. Cash.


Lukelucy
Wonder where you reside. In our neck of the woods, more and bigger Dr's. buildings are going up. They are all bracing for new Patients under Obamacare. Smart planning.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Meerkat said:


> Your qualifications on this subject are???????????


Meerkat
I roam around the World. Always advantages to get first hand information.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you for your response, Huck. I sometimes feel a bit of a spare part on here. I put something forward, it falls into a big hole and the thread continues without a ripple. I don't want to have massive rows, just try to widen the scope occasionally.


aw9358
Oh please, no spare part, fact is that many really do not understand matters with depth. A feather in your cap. Keep posting, hopefully something will stick. Huck


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Meerkat
> I roam around the World. Always advantages to get first hand information.


Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Give it up. I don't believe one word that comes out of your mouth.





knitpresentgifts said:


> Bratty are you really that ignorant of the facts? I guess you are.
> 
> Someone other than me knows something about life and civics since TuesFlight11 quoted the same man as I did. I don't post on Ravelry yet I'm pleased to be in her company. These words sound familiar:
> 
> ...


I cannot actually believe you don't even know whose words I quoted. Of course, you don't have to believe anything I say, but you should at least recognize the words of someone who was so influential to President Obama and his family.

You thought the words were my own, how foolish and ignorant of you.

I gave you more credit that you deserve. As an Obama supporter, I thought you would have recognized the words of Jeremiah Wright since he had such a lasting impact on President Obama, Michelle and his two daughters. Married them, pastored them, gave him support in campaigning in his first Presidential run for office, gave monetary support, counseled Obama, etc.

Yet you are so ill informed you did not recognize my quoting someone so influential to the President you adore.

President Obama put a lot of faith in what came out of Wright's mouth for more than 20 years. I would think you would be better informed to know about the people you support.

Apparently you just go through life oblivious to the facts and keep yourself in the dark.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


knitpresengifts
your jealousy is turning you purple. Since that is your favorite color, you blend in.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I really don't care who you quoted, ass. Spread your lies around Ravelry. They are very easily recognized here. Nobody here falls for them anymore. 
The phrase was coined long before Wright.
Or aren't you intelligent enough to know that?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


You could only wish for the intelligence that Huck possesses.
She's way out of your league, Cherf.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I cannot actually believe you don't even know whose words I quoted. Of course, you don't have to believe anything I say, but you should at least recognize the words of someone who was so influential to President Obama and his family.
> 
> You thought the words were my own, how foolish and ignorant of you.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
The only person thinking that you are full of wisdom is you. Did you ever believe that we believe you? Keep hoping and dreaming.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> The only person thinking that you are full of wisdom is you. Did you ever believe that we believe you? Keep hoping and dreaming.


Just more noxious fumes, Huck.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresengifts
> your jealousy is turning you purple. Since that is your favorite color, you blend in.


Huck, is your new Avatar your knitted bathing suit? Looks too little did you follow the gage correctly?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I cannot actually believe you don't even know whose words I quoted. Of course, you don't have to believe anything I say, but you should at least recognize the words of someone who was so influential to President Obama and his family.
> 
> You thought the words were my own, how foolish and ignorant of you.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about? Who cares about Jeremiah Wright and why on earth should anyone recognize his words? And why do you keep saying Patty "adores" the president? Did you "adore" Mitt? What a poor choice of words! You might "adore" your husband or "adore" your grandchild, but "adore" the president? A strange choice of a verb, I think.
And, once again, you're acting like a child.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What are you talking about? Who cares about Jeremiah Wright and why on earth should anyone recognize his words? And why do you keep saying Patty "adores" the president? Did you "adore" Mitt? What a poor choice of words! You might "adore" your husband or "adore" your grandchild, but "adore" the president? A strange choice of a verb, I think.
> And, once again, you're acting like a child.


Actually al, she is just being herself. Pompous ass and blithering as usual.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


I noticed the lefties still think you are Cherf! This is so funny so why don't you play along as I will tell Cherf and she be down on the floor laughing. Lots of fun!

I too have noticed how the lefties are always just saying hateful words without any information because they really do not know.

Glad you are here lady.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


KPG must be getting Huck confused with her ward charge nurse.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I noticed the lefties still think you are Cherf! This is so funny so why don't you play along as I will tell Cherf and she be down on the floor laughing. Lots of fun!
> 
> I too have noticed how the lefties are always just saying hateful words without any information because they really do not know.
> 
> Glad you are here lady.


Hey, Janeway, Meerkat is looking for you on Ravelry.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I noticed the lefties still think you are Cherf! This is so funny so why don't you play along as I will tell Cherf and she be down on the floor laughing. Lots of fun!
> 
> I too have noticed how the lefties are always just saying hateful words without any information because they really do not know.
> 
> Glad you are here lady.


She certainly doesn't act like a lady! And, yes, she's Cherf and Tuesday.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You could only wish for the intelligence that Huck possesses.
> She's way out of your league, Cherf.


What league to that--20,000 leagues under the sea? Haven't read any intelligence from you or Huck yet. Shame on you for calling her an ASS!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> She certainly doesn't act like a lady! And, yes, she's Cherf and Tuesday.


Alcameron, no, she is not Cherf! I know.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresengifts
> your jealousy is turning you purple. Since that is your favorite color, you blend in.


Oh, you switched from your too little bathing suit as I would show you how to arrive at the proper gage in knitting!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I think what really upsets me about this thread is the poor quality of the insults. After nearly 2,000 pages they should be honed to a higher level than the school playground. Could do better, ladies.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No problem SS. They need to be exposed for the creepers they are. KPG can't resist us and sure likes to rain on other people's parade. No class or good manners from that quarter just lots of ugly behavior.


I cannot believe Seattle when she says some of us have tried to sneak into her site. I wouldn't waste my time but we can read without Seattle even knowing we are there! Not too smart!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I cannot believe Seattle when she says some of us have tried to sneak into her site. I wouldn't waste my time but we can read without Seattle even knowing we are there! Not too smart!


Seattle is very smart, Jane. She said people from your crew are trying to become members. Reading others' groups goes both ways, Jane.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, lovely ladies, my knitting is calling me as it is very interesting and for a good cause. None of the lefties (except Alcameron) has shown anything they make for charity or a cancer center. Such a shame as all most do is flap the lip!

Good night!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I think what really upsets me about this thread is the poor quality of the insults. After nearly 2,000 pages they should be honed to a higher level than the school playground. Could do better, ladies.


But we have to write to be understood! Can't get too fancy----like using British sarcasm in the US.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Seattle is very smart, Jane. She said people from your crew are trying to become members. Reading others' groups goes both ways, Jane.


Glad you think Seattle is smart--it is such a joke that you believe that. I thought you were above and beyond these other women you call friends. SS sure has you fooled.

Good night!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I really don't care who you quoted, ass. Spread your lies around Ravelry. They are very easily recognized here. Nobody here falls for them anymore.
> The phrase was coined long before Wright.
> Or aren't you intelligent enough to know that?


Bratty Patty
Have we ever encountered anyone in their midst who knew what they were talking about? They do well copying and get
flustered when asked about contend.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, lovely ladies, my knitting is calling me as it is very interesting and for a good cause. None of the lefties (except Alcameron) has shown anything they make for charity or a cancer center. Such a shame as all most do is flap the lip!
> 
> Good night!


Jane, people needn't post anything about their knitting. One doesn't need to advertise good works, one just does them. Humility.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Glad you think Seattle is smart--it is such a joke that you believe that. I thought you were above and beyond these other women you call friends. SS sure has you fooled.
> 
> Good night!


I guess you missed her post when she said what her background is.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

alcameron said:


> But we have to write to be understood! Can't get too fancy----like using British sarcasm in the US.


Sorry, Andrea. Maybe my expectations are too high, with all the fancy qualifications people toss around in here. I'm just a bit disappointed with the likes of "I can't believe how stupid you are". Oscar Wilde it ain't.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Huck, is your new Avatar your knitted bathing suit? Looks too little did you follow the gage correctly?


Janeway
I follow gauge (unlike your gage) quite well. What bathing suit?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> What are you talking about? Who cares about Jeremiah Wright and why on earth should anyone recognize his words? And why do you keep saying Patty "adores" the president? Did you "adore" Mitt? What a poor choice of words! You might "adore" your husband or "adore" your grandchild, but "adore" the president? A strange choice of a verb, I think.
> And, once again, you're acting like a child.


alcameron
old folks often act in such a manner. He/she seems to know a lot about assisted living.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bazinga for now. Dinner time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> She certainly doesn't act like a lady! And, yes, she's Cherf and Tuesday.


alcameron
of course she is.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I cannot believe Seattle when she says some of us have tried to sneak into her site. I wouldn't waste my time but we can read without Seattle even knowing we are there! Not too smart!


Janeway
ain't this double-talk?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, lovely ladies, my knitting is calling me as it is very interesting and for a good cause. None of the lefties (except Alcameron) has shown anything they make for charity or a cancer center. Such a shame as all most do is flap the lip!
> 
> Good night!


Janeway
perhaps we are not in the habit of flaunting our good deeds. In fact will be getting a knitting machine with motor shortly which will knit while I pursue other activities, know what I mean!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, you switched from your too little bathing suit as I would show you how to arrive at the proper gage in knitting!


Janeway
G A U G E is the correct spelling. I thought I pointed that out to you. It is not a Bathing Suit either, it is a Bikini. Fits my pretty Doll to a T. Looks like my knitting knowledge beats yours.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I think what really upsets me about this thread is the poor quality of the insults. After nearly 2,000 pages they should be honed to a higher level than the school playground. Could do better, ladies.


aw9358
Trying my best, accept any assistance you can provide. I agree with what someone stated before me, we can't get too fancy.
Simple minds grab simple stuff only.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> Solo is not a Bratty wannabe (you cannot even spell it correctly).
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :?: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


I know who you are and I didn't spell anything wrong. It's right in the dictionary. Go look it up. You are so behind you are almost going backwards. Even as a rodent you have absolutely no personality. Too bad you spent all that time posting the smilies but I guess they are there for you the uneducated one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Glad you think Seattle is smart--it is such a joke that you believe that. I thought you were above and beyond these other women you call friends. SS sure has you fooled.
> 
> Good night!


alcameron
now we know for sure that Janeway is dumb. You see because SS writes way above the head of Janeway and she has no clue what is being written, she considers SS not smart.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I guess you missed her post when she said what her background is.


alcameron
she did not miss it she did not understand it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Soloweygirl is great. Leave her alone. You are the problem.


No lukebummer you are the problem. You really need to take some responsibility for yourself instead of riding other people's coattails.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Meerkat - ignore Huck. She roams around the assisted care facility where she lives and spouts grandiose ideas and nothing of substance. Read her posts if you want a lesson in 'nothingness.'


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, lovely ladies, my knitting is calling me as it is very interesting and for a good cause. None of the lefties (except Alcameron) has shown anything they make for charity or a cancer center. Such a shame as all most do is flap the lip!
> 
> Good night!


Good night Janeway. You are wrong once again, however. As a group we are knitting charity squares. Make sure you douse the campfire and recycle that empty bottle of whiskey you have been guzzling.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Aw. gosh darn it, you can read what's posted on the Oasis and i won't know you even did. Do you actually think I give a flying rat's bum whether you read anything on Oasis? Any fool who knows how to read can do that.


Janeway said:


> I cannot believe Seattle when she says some of us have tried to sneak into her site. I wouldn't waste my time but we can read without Seattle even knowing we are there! Not too smart!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> now we know for sure that Janeway is dumb. You see because SS writes way above the head of Janeway and she has no clue what is being written, she considers SS not smart.


I can't help the way i write, in certain ways. Having a familiarity with early 19th century writing, I sometime lapse into that style and I'm sure it sounds a bit strange. Reading and discussion were two of the fun things that were encouraged by my parents, along with learning new words. Sometimes people don't have the vocabulry to say what they want to say. I feel sorry for people in that position because I'm sure they actually do have something to say and it might be interesting.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I am still over the moon about DOMA being stricken down and California's Prop 8 being turned away by the Supreme Court. I have sai this a million time, but will repeat. The more people who believe they are members of the legitimate society the more stable that society is. I heard a lot of gay folks saying the finally felt like Americans!!! Blows me away in the nicest way possible. It's so great to feel good about being an American for a little while.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> ain't this double-talk?


Nope! Just a note to let you all know the site could be read (I wouldn't waste my time) without leaving a trail!

Seattle said she quit high school to "live" with an older man so she did not even finish high school! So unsmart!

I have an excuse for not remembering much if any education because of a medical condition is why I was put on disability. What is the rest of you and friends excuse?

At least I woke up to the sunshine today after rain that refreshed our area last night. God is good to me so when I won't wake up anymore, I am ready for the next great step to greet God and Jesus.

Peace be among all of you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Nope! Just a note to let you all know the site could be read (I wouldn't waste my time) without leaving a trail!
> 
> Seattle said she quit high school to "live" with an older man so she did not even finish high school! So unsmart!
> 
> ...


Jane
You are very very wrong about SS. I guess you didn't read enough. We also know that anyone can read the posts in any group on Ravelry. We've been doing it for a very long time.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Nope! Just a note to let you all know the site could be read (I wouldn't waste my time) without leaving a trail!
> 
> Seattle said she quit high school to "live" with an older man so she did not even finish high school! So unsmart!
> 
> ...


Janeway
you have an excuse for everything while you leave no room for others who may have some difficulties. How nice, how Christian is that?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway, since you said you have a nedically-related memory problem I now understand how information I've given you about my life has gotten so scrambled. I didb't know about your problem. I did indeed meet an older man at the age of 16 just before my senior year of high school, but I went through that senior year and graduated. My older man and I lived together after I turned 18, in large part because of my respect formy parents. I've also been a college student at several periods of my life. I'm pretty well-educated, but college definetly didn't happen for me on the same timeline it does for many people.

Please feel free to read The Oasis anytime you want to. You don't have to tell us if you did. It's your personal choice.

I'm sorry you have a medically related memory problem. hate what we laughingly call "senior monents", have had to use my memory extensively a lot of the time, and would feel lost without as much as I can still use it for.


Janeway said:


> Nope! Just a note to let you all know the site could be read (I wouldn't waste my time) without leaving a trail!
> 
> Seattle said she quit high school to "live" with an older man so she did not even finish high school! So unsmart!
> 
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> My impression is that the US is lagging behind the rest of the world in environmental matters. For example, the US did not ratify the Kyoto Protocol, while around 37 countries have agreed to legally binding agreements on carbon emissions. The rest of the world cares very much about America's carbon footprint.


I don't really think that the world cares about our carbon footprint. China, India, Russia and other countries are firing up their coal furnaces, so to speak. In the last decade CO2 emissions increased by 2.6B tons, according to BP's latest global survey on energy and the environment.

According to Hans von Storch, "despite predictions of a warming planet the temperature data for the past 15 years shows an increase of 0.06 or 'very close to zero'. This is despite 400B metric tons of CO2 emitted into the atmosphere from human activities. The result should be a temperature rise of around 0.25 deg. C and 0.45 deg. F over the past 10 years."

Storch stated: "If temperatures continue as they have, in 5 years time, scientists will have to acknowledge that something is fundamentally wrong with our climate models. A 20 year pause in global warming does not occur in a single modeled scenario, even today. We are finding it very difficult to reconcile actual temperature trends with our expectations.

However, Pres. Obama and SOS Kerry remain committed to the US signing a UN carbon treaty. It is unlikely they will get the support from our Senate. The courts and voting public have already blocked Obama from delivering any of this comprehensive plans on CO2, which he says is linked to increased temperatures.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

So hat else is new? They have blocked everything on President Obama's agenda.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, you switched from your too little bathing suit as I would show you how to arrive at the proper gage in knitting!


Janeway
Does this Avatar please your sense of gauge? Match it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I can't help the way i write, in certain ways. Having a familiarity with early 19th century writing, I sometime lapse into that style and I'm sure it sounds a bit strange. Reading and discussion were two of the fun things that were encouraged by my parents, along with learning new words. Sometimes people don't have the vocabulry to say what they want to say. I feel sorry for people in that position because I'm sure they actually do have something to say and it might be interesting.


SeattleSoul
Just think if we had the skill writing as Shakespeare did, the folks here would be screaming. Ordinary is what they are looking for, very ordinary and simple to boot. It is a pleasure to have parents who are well read, encourage reading and writing and demand the use of a dictionary on a daily basis. Always a pleasure to read your postings. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> So hat else is new? They have blocked everything on President Obama's agenda.


Bratty Patty
Some of these folks have lived in a fog all of their live and do not recognize that it is getting denser.

Opposing anything that President Obama tries to further of course is the GOP's #1 goal and that exposes them around the globe as totally destructive.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So hat else is new? They have blocked everything on President Obama's agenda.


I never understood why just because it is on Obama's agenda it has to be passed. With that logic then Obamacare should be repealed since most Americans don't want it. 75% of Americans want to know about the IRS' abuse of power, AP and Fox phone tapping (etc), Benghaz, Fast and Furious, and so on, but where are documents requested by Congressional committees? Why are people taking the 5th instead of answering Congressional Committee questions? Why is Holder still working, even with his Contempt of Congress still standing?

Where is the give and take?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I never understood why just because it is on Obama's agenda it has to be passed. With that logic then Obamacare should be repealed since most Americans don't want it. 75% of Americans want to know about the IRS' abuse of power, AP and Fox phone tapping (etc), Benghaz, Fast and Furious, and so on, but where are documents requested by Congressional committees? Why are people taking the 5th instead of answering Congressional Committee questions? Why is Holder still working, even with his Contempt of Congress still standing?
> 
> Where is the give and take?


lovethelake
do you actually believe what you write?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> do you actually believe what you write?


yes


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I never understood why just because it is on Obama's agenda it has to be passed. With that logic then Obamacare should be repealed since most Americans don't want it. 75% of Americans want to know about the IRS' abuse of power, AP and Fox phone tapping (etc), Benghaz, Fast and Furious, and so on, but where are documents requested by Congressional committees? Why are people taking the 5th instead of answering Congressional Committee questions? Why is Holder still working, even with his Contempt of Congress still standing?
> 
> Where is the give and take?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> yes


So do I and a lot of other people.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> Does this Avatar please your sense of gauge? Match it.


You are just being nasty again. I left out the "u" but all you can do is make fun of me. I could waste my time by treating you the same, but won't! As a matter of fact, I won't respond to you or any of your hateful people again.

I felt that since a long time Alcameron sent a PM asking me to be her friend that she really meant that fact, but I can read how she is changing and becoming as the people she is hanging out with on KP. The decision is hers to break our friendship not mine.

I have in the past voted for Democrats because I voted for the person, but after conversing with all of you hateful Democrats--I won't ever vote for a Democrat again!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are just being nasty again. I left out the "u" but all you can do is make fun of me. I could waste my time by treating you the same, but won't! As a matter of fact, I won't respond to you or any of your hateful people again.
> 
> I felt that since a long time Alcameron sent a PM asking me to be her friend that she really meant that fact, but I can read how she is changing and becoming as the people she is hanging out with on KP. The decision is hers to break our friendship not mine.
> 
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are just being nasty again. I left out the "u" but all you can do is make fun of me. I could waste my time by treating you the same, but won't! As a matter of fact, I won't respond to you or any of your hateful people again.
> 
> I felt that since a long time Alcameron sent a PM asking me to be her friend that she really meant that fact, but I can read how she is changing and becoming as the people she is hanging out with on KP. The decision is hers to break our friendship not mine.
> 
> I have in the past voted for Democrats because I voted for the person, but after conversing with all of you hateful Democrats--I won't ever vote for a Democrat again!


Janeway
I haven't changed a bit. I still have the same beliefs and I am still defending what I believe in. I offered to help you with your iPad, and that offer still holds. If your philosophy about how government should be run agrees more with Democrats, then find a candidate that supports those beliefs. If you agree more with the Republican values about how the country should be run, then find a candidate with whom you agree. If you really try to be objective, you'll see that there are many things that are pretty nasty coming from your "side of the street," too. You shouldn't base your political leanings on whether this group or that one has nasty people in it. If you think I've become too nasty I just have to accept that, but you have also been nasty to my friends. We have to make decisions based on how we want to live our lives and which philosophies we wish to follow.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You are just being nasty again. I left out the "u" but all you can do is make fun of me. I could waste my time by treating you the same, but won't! As a matter of fact, I won't respond to you or any of your hateful people again.
> 
> I felt that since a long time Alcameron sent a PM asking me to be her friend that she really meant that fact, but I can read how she is changing and becoming as the people she is hanging out with on KP. The decision is hers to break our friendship not mine.
> 
> I have in the past voted for Democrats because I voted for the person, but after conversing with all of you hateful Democrats--I won't ever vote for a Democrat again!


Janeway
Excuse me Madam, why the crying? You felt it necessary to make a negative remark re. the knitted Bikini - which by the way is a perfect fit - saying that you could teach me GAGE referring to the small size. SEE page 84. In my first response I simply wrote gauge without elaborating about it but you then came back with GAGE again and that prompted me to respond. DO NOT dish it out if you cannot take it. As proof that I am VERY good with gauge I posted my present Avatar of a Sweater designed and knitted by me. Match it with one of your gauged designs.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I never understood why just because it is on Obama's agenda it has to be passed. With that logic then Obamacare should be repealed since most Americans don't want it. 75% of Americans want to know about the IRS' abuse of power, AP and Fox phone tapping (etc), Benghaz, Fast and Furious, and so on, but where are documents requested by Congressional committees? Why are people taking the 5th instead of answering Congressional Committee questions? Why is Holder still working, even with his Contempt of Congress still standing?
> 
> Where is the give and take?


President Obama spent 3 years trying to bend over backwards to meet the repubs more than halfway. In fact, I was angry with him for doing that. Where did that get him? His efforts were totally rebuffed by the repubs in Congress. I think it's time for the other side to bend a little. They have obstructed everything he has tried to do and even invented all the stupid "scandals" to try to get rid of him. Not one "scandal" has been shown to be an actual scandal. There has been no criminal prosecution or proven wrong-doing. Darrell Issa is still slinking around DC trying to stoke the fire, but the embers are dead. How can you be proud of the House Repubs, in particular, for not doing the jobs they were sent there to do. That's on them, not on the President.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> President Obama spent 3 years trying to bend over backwards to meet the repubs more than halfway. In fact, I was angry with him for doing that. Where did that get him? His efforts were totally rebuffed by the repubs in Congress. I think it's time for the other side to bend a little. They have obstructed everything he has tried to do and even invented all the stupid "scandals" to try to get rid of him. Not one "scandal" has been shown to be an actual scandal. There has been no criminal prosecution or proven wrong-doing. Darrell Issa is still slinking around DC trying to stoke the fire, but the embers are dead. How can you be proud of the House Repubs, in particular, for not doing the jobs they were sent there to do. That's on them, not on the President.


No he did not "bend over backwards" trying to work with ..." He wants you to think that he did, but he did not. I know people in Washington and they say just the opposite. Please. His PR is working on you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No he did not "bend over backwards" trying to work with ..." He wants you to think that he did, but he did not. I know people in Washington and they say just the opposite. Please. His PR is working on you.


I also know people in Washington who disagree heartily with you. The GOP falsehoods have you bamboozled. The GOP is very good at playing dirty, but I guess you don't want to see it or can't recognize it. I just can't agree to repub values. I don't believe the Ayn Rand philosophy is what's best for this country and I don't see how any Christian can hold that mentality. It's totally contrary to how I believe a society should exist. Time to examine your belief system and how it concurs with repub philosophy.
Doggie dinner time followed by our dinner time
Have a nice evening!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I also know people in Washington who disagree heartily with you. The GOP falsehoods have you bamboozled. The GOP is very good at playing dirty, but I guess you don't want to see it or can't recognize it. I just can't agree to repub values. I don't believe the Ayn Rand philosophy is what's best for this country and I don't see how any Christian can hold that mentality. It's totally contrary to how I believe a society should exist. Time to examine your belief system and how it concurs with repub philosophy.
> Doggie dinner time followed by our dinner time
> Have a nice evening!


Religion and politics do not mix.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> No he did not "bend over backwards" trying to work with ..." He wants you to think that he did, but he did not. I know people in Washington and they say just the opposite. Please. His PR is working on you.


Lukelucy
YES he did and if the people you know in Washington say otherwise, they are out of the loop.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Religion and politics do not mix.


Lukelucy
You didn't get it, did you! Religion was never mentioned.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Religion and politics do not mix.


If religion and politics don't mix, why are repubs trying to legislate getting rid of abortion? Why are they opposed to gay marriage? Why are certain Catholics against the parts of the ACA that disagree with their religion?
I maintain that your sense of morality which may or may not be shaped by your religion has an effect on how you view what your government does or does not do. People may not want to admit it, though.
So take religion totally out of government. Take the commandments down, take "under God" out of the pledge, teach evolution (ban creationism), that's how it should be. And that's fine with me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> You didn't get it, did you! Religion was never mentioned.


I guess she's taking "philosophy" to mean religion.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> If religion and politics don't mix, why are repubs trying to legislate getting rid of abortion? Why are they opposed to gay marriage? Why are certain Catholics against the parts of the ACA that disagree with their religion?
> I maintain that your sense of morality which may or may not be shaped by your religion has an effect on how you view what your government does or does not do. People may not want to admit it, though.
> So take religion totally out of government. Take the commandments down, take "under God" out of the pledge, teach evolution (ban creationism), that's how it should be. And that's fine with me.


I totally agree, Andrea. I think the GOP understands quite well what they are doing. I think they favor religion not mixing with government with the exception of Christianity. Then it is perfectly OK. I didn't remember that "one nation under God" was added to the pledge only recently and it was the Knights of Columbus who lobbied Congress in the 1954 to have it done. The GOP is going to cease to exist as a party unless they change and they seem to be struggling quite badly to keep going.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> President Obama spent 3 years trying to bend over backwards to meet the repubs more than halfway. In fact, I was angry with him for doing that. Where did that get him? His efforts were totally rebuffed by the repubs in Congress. I think it's time for the other side to bend a little. They have obstructed everything he has tried to do and even invented all the stupid "scandals" to try to get rid of him. Not one "scandal" has been shown to be an actual scandal. There has been no criminal prosecution or proven wrong-doing. Darrell Issa is still slinking around DC trying to stoke the fire, but the embers are dead. How can you be proud of the House Repubs, in particular, for not doing the jobs they were sent there to do. That's on them, not on the President.


He did nothing other than ram Obamacare down the throats of Americans without allowing a vote in the Senate. No one had the time to read it,to attempt to understand it. He raised taxes on working people. He added millions to the Food Stamp program. More children are in poverty. Millions are out of work. Started a war in Syria. Let 4 Americans in Benghazi die while napping. Let a border patrol die because of Fast and Furious. Lost billions of dollars on Green energy instead of allowing coal companies upgrade their machines and therefore having 100's of thousands of people loose their jobs. He has increased the size of the Federal Government. Gas prices have doubled. The Fed is printing money putting us more in debt.

He has done absolutely nothing that has improved my life even 1%.

So I thank goodness that he couldn't do anything else.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Why are certain Catholics against the parts of the ACA that disagree with their religion?
I

What is wrong with Catholics disagreeing with parts of HSS?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> He did nothing other than ram Obamacare down the throats of Americans without allowing a vote in the Senate. No one had the time to read it,to attempt to understand it. He raised taxes on working people. He added millions to the Food Stamp program. More children are in poverty. Millions are out of work. Started a war in Syria. Let 4 Americans in Benghazi die while napping. Let a border patrol die because of Fast and Furious. Lost billions of dollars on Green energy instead of allowing coal companies upgrade their machines and therefore having 100's of thousands of people loose their jobs. He has increased the size of the Federal Government. Gas prices have doubled. The Fed is printing money putting us more in debt.
> 
> He has done absolutely nothing that has improved my life even 1%.
> 
> So I thank goodness that he couldn't do anything else.


Lovethelake
Take each statement you made, research it and then repost. I guarantee you that you will look much better. As to improving
your life, you have been bragging how wonderful it is. What needs improvement, pretty please?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why are certain Catholics against the parts of the ACA that disagree with their religion?
> I
> 
> What is wrong with Catholics disagreeing with parts of HSS?


Not a thing. I was trying to point that religion and politics do mix when it serves someone's purpose.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> He did nothing other than ram Obamacare down the throats of Americans without allowing a vote in the Senate. No one had the time to read it,to attempt to understand it. He raised taxes on working people. He added millions to the Food Stamp program. More children are in poverty. Millions are out of work. Started a war in Syria. Let 4 Americans in Benghazi die while napping. Let a border patrol die because of Fast and Furious. Lost billions of dollars on Green energy instead of allowing coal companies upgrade their machines and therefore having 100's of thousands of people loose their jobs. He has increased the size of the Federal Government. Gas prices have doubled. The Fed is printing money putting us more in debt.
> 
> He has done absolutely nothing that has improved my life even 1%.
> 
> So I thank goodness that he couldn't do anything else.


Prove to me that all of the things you listed were totally because the President did or didn't do something.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Prove to me that all of the things you listed were totally because the President did or didn't do something.


alcameron
I suggested for her to research what she said and then repost.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> I suggested for her to research what she said and then repost.


Got it, Huck. They always want to blame the President without looking at what their heroes in Congress are doing----which is NOTHING!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway
I suggest that if you want to pick a fight, pick one you can win. So far your losing record is superb. - Looking for one of your knitting creations, you might top me there. Would happily praise you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Got it, Huck. They always want to blame the President without looking at what their heroes in Congress are doing----which is NOTHING!


alcameron
I must have been asleep for a while, when did we start a War with Syria? Just curious.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> I must have been asleep for a while, when did we start a War with Syria? Just curious.


Huck this is a quote from Lindsey Graham saying we have to get involved in Syria. It is really sad that lakelady and the rest of the righties don't have a clue what their own people in Washington are suggesting we do. Just blame it on Obama. She is a one trick pony and that's all she knows. I think she is typical of the right. Why educate yourself and make your life complicated?

We need to create a no-fly-zone. We cannot take air power out of the equation, said Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican of South Carolina). He also called for arming opposition fighters in Syria with heavy weapons. The whole region is about to blow up, he said. If we dont do more than add AK-47s into the mix, [Assad] will continue to win. And the King of Jordan will be toast.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Immigration Reform
One giant step towards humanity. Now we will see how Congress views it. We know that this is an uphill battle but then what is not with Congress at the present time. They have taught us to fight and fight we will.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck this is a quote from Lindsey Graham saying we have to get involved in Syria. It is really sad that lakelady and the rest of the righties don't have a clue what their own people in Washington are suggesting we do. Just blame it on Obama. She is a one trick pony and that's all she knows. I think she is typical of the right. Why educate yourself and make your life complicated?
> 
> We need to create a no-fly-zone. We cannot take air power out of the equation, said Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican of South Carolina). He also called for arming opposition fighters in Syria with heavy weapons. The whole region is about to blow up, he said. If we dont do more than add AK-47s into the mix, [Assad] will continue to win. And the King of Jordan will be toast.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
And John McCain is standing behind him saying the same thing. The last time I looked I think John was a repub, too.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Huck this is a quote from Lindsey Graham saying we have to get involved in Syria. It is really sad that lakelady and the rest of the righties don't have a clue what their own people in Washington are suggesting we do. Just blame it on Obama. She is a one trick pony and that's all she knows. I think she is typical of the right. Why educate yourself and make your life complicated?
> 
> We need to create a no-fly-zone. We cannot take air power out of the equation, said Senator Lindsey Graham (Republican of South Carolina). He also called for arming opposition fighters in Syria with heavy weapons. The whole region is about to blow up, he said. If we dont do more than add AK-47s into the mix, [Assad] will continue to win. And the King of Jordan will be toast.


Cheeky Blighter
He is a Reservist, let us send him into conflict.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> And John McCain is standing behind him saying the same thing. The last time I looked I think John was a repub, too.


alcameron
Let us pass a law and quick that those who start conflict must be the first ones to serve. That will change their tunes. Have any Democrats lately proposed an other War? I always see McCain, Republican and Graham, Republican in the forefront on this issue. I added their political affiliation to inform those who watch here from foreign countries. Clarification has its value.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I guess she's taking "philosophy" to mean religion.


alcameron
how can you use a big word like philosophy, she did not understand what was meant by belief and you now want to throw in philosophy? You are an optimist I must say.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you ladies heard about the telephone? You can call your friends and talk about every little thing. Try it. You may like it.



Janeway said:


> Good morning lovely lady, it rained during the night so everything looks refreshed after a good drink of water. Still hot at 86 high expected today!
> 
> I will have a busy day with the knitting group as I'm behind with knitting because of the illness. We enjoy 2 - 3 hours together with a lot of chatting/coffee/knitting/crochet.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

boring. ignore.



knitpresentgifts said:


> and unequivocally wrong and stupid.
> 
> The person has no idea about the taxes and increased costs coming her way.
> 
> Most have their heads in the sand about Obamacare, hope they have oil fields to gather some wealth to pay for their upcoming increased health care costs.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I believe most firmly that LL and Thumper are misguided. Huckleberry's opinions are grounded in fact.



Lukelucy said:


> Thumper,
> 
> They are crazy. I pity what doctors have to go through. Doctors are victims of Obamacare. I think Huckleberry has a serious mental problem.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps intended as a joke. Aliens from outer space?



Lukelucy said:


> Is it true that Obamacare gives illegal aliens Social Security??? This cannot be true.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Perhaps intended as a joke. Aliens from outer space?


damemary
Is it the summer's heat or the moon "invading" some folk's noodles? Can't figure out where else this stuff is coming from. We know that necessity is the mother of inventions but are they that desperate?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks. We always got sent to the dictionary if we aske out parents what a word meant. Not only do I write funny sometimes, I start to talk funny too. Having a hobby that concentrates on hymns takes me back to some years when people spoke very differently than they do now. I only worry when I start to sound too much like I've gotten stuck in the early 18th century... And I don't always notice because my friends are used to all sorts of language and won't necessarily object but just go along.


Huckleberry said:


> SeattleSoul
> Just think if we had the skill writing as Shakespeare did, the folks here would be screaming. Ordinary is what they are looking for, very ordinary and simple to boot. It is a pleasure to have parents who are well read, encourage reading and writing and demand the use of a dictionary on a daily basis. Always a pleasure to read your postings. Huck


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thanks. We always got sent to the dictionary if we aske out parents what a word meant. Not only do I write funny sometimes, I start to talk funny too. Having a hobby that concentrates on hymns takes me back to some years when people spoke very differently than they do now. I only worry when I start to sound too much like I've gotten stuck in the early 18th century... And I don't always notice because my friends are used to all sorts of language and won't necessarily object but just go along.


Here's a good one. Today on the radio I heard someone (political figure) talking about gay marriage and he said the word "mores" pronounced like "more" with an "s" on the end. It took me a minute but I figured out that he was saying the word "mores" that I always thought was pronounced more-aze. Then the female commentator talked about what he said and repeated the word just like he said it--more with an "s" at the end. When I got home I ran to the dictionary because I thought maybe the times had changed and I was using an archaic pronunciation. No, it's still more-aze. Is anyone learning anything at school?


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

I need to stop reading this crap before I blow an aneurysm...

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/28/19188843-pennsylvania-dem-silenced-by-opponent-citing-gods-law?lite

I try really hard be fair and balanced in my thinking and not be judgmental, but it literally blows my mind that there are actually people holding high office in this country that are this stupid (not to mention borish, rude, arrogant, and did I mention stupid?)


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I do not understand the outcry against voter id's in the US. I do not understand why it is racist to ask a person to present a photo id to prove they are who they say they are in order to vote. I bring this up because in Kenya the US is paying them $53,000,000 of our tax dollars to institute a photo id program that would require Kenyans to show their id in order to vote.

So if it is part of the Democratic process and a good policy in Kenya, why not in the US?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway
> I haven't changed a bit. I still have the same beliefs and I am still defending what I believe in. I offered to help you with your iPad, and that offer still holds. If your philosophy about how government should be run agrees more with Democrats, then find a candidate that supports those beliefs. If you agree more with the Republican values about how the country should be run, then find a candidate with whom you agree. If you really try to be objective, you'll see that there are many things that are pretty nasty coming from your "side of the street," too. You shouldn't base your political leanings on whether this group or that one has nasty people in it. If you think I've become too nasty I just have to accept that, but you have also been nasty to my friends. We have to make decisions based on how we want to live our lives and which philosophies we wish to follow.


Yes, that has always been the way I felt about politics, but why do people have to become so hateful? Yes, I was becoming hateful too, but how would you feel if someone kept posting a Raid Can and a bug turned upside down dead? It showed such low class. Yes, I too went to Cheeky's level and others who were hateful to me.

It seems to me that no matter what my friends say, someone writes something hateful such as "you are really stupid" without trying to give their opinions nicely. That is why there is such a conflict.

I once wrote a nice comment about we all should at least be civil to each other and BrattyPatty commented that it was one of the nicest things she had read--then the next quote was terrible--so how does anyone really get through to your side of the street?

I have tried to be peaceful but all some from your side can say is hateful words. So will it ever end? I doubt if the philosophies will change on KP.

Yes, thanks for the offer to help with the Ipad as it is very sweet of you as I'm still learning. My desk computer is down so cannot print patterns.

I feel we all would be better if we would offer help in some way to each other instead of being so hateful. What a lovely peaceful world it could be then we could do a lot more knitting!

I'm off here most of the day trying to catch up with laundry and house work as have had a horrible sinus infection that went into the lungs so took antibiotics and stayed in bed for over a week. I'm so slow that it now takes twice as long to do much work.

Thanks Al for your kind words as I have been proud to have you and others as friends but wish others would follow to be nice as:

Today was a given

Tomorrow is not promised!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mopgenorth said:


> I need to stop reading this crap before I blow an aneurysm...
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/28/19188843-pennsylvania-dem-silenced-by-opponent-citing-gods-law?lite
> 
> I try really hard be fair and balanced in my thinking and not be judgmental, but it literally blows my mind that there are actually people holding high office in this country that are this stupid (not to mention borish, rude, arrogant, and did I mention stupid?)


mopgenorth
Thank you very much. It is astounding how many Politicians are abusing their position and either are ignorant of our Laws or choose to ignore them. Always wonder who votes these people into office. They are not my neighbors for sure and for that I am very thankful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

mopgenorth said:


> I need to stop reading this crap before I blow an aneurysm...
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/28/19188843-pennsylvania-dem-silenced-by-opponent-citing-gods-law?lite
> 
> I try really hard be fair and balanced in my thinking and not be judgmental, but it literally blows my mind that there are actually people holding high office in this country that are this stupid (not to mention borish, rude, arrogant, and did I mention stupid?)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The same tactic has been used in the past to prevent blacks in the South in voting. Now you are aware of the issue. Oh, how is it that you are unaware of the issue?



lovethelake said:


> I do not understand the outcry against voter id's in the US. I do not understand why it is racist to ask a person to present a photo id to prove they are who they say they are in order to vote. I bring this up because in Kenya the US is paying them $53,000,000 of our tax dollars to institute a photo id program that would require Kenyans to show their id in order to vote.
> 
> So if it is part of the Democratic process and a good policy in Kenya, why not in the US?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am most disgusted that other members of the legislature let it happen. Bullies need to be stopped by others.



Huckleberry said:


> mopgenorth
> Thank you very much. It is astounding how many Politicians are abusing their position and either are ignorant of our Laws or choose to ignore them. Always wonder who votes these people into office. They are not my neighbors for sure and for that I am very thankful.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> I need to stop reading this crap before I blow an
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/28/19188843-pennsylvania-dem-silenced-by-opponent-citing-gods-law?lite
> 
> I try really hard be fair and balanced in my thinking and not be judgmental, but it literally blows my mind that there are actually people holding high office in this country that are this stupid (not to mention borish, rude, arrogant, and did I mention stupid?)


I thought we might benefit from posting it in its entirety. Thank you for the link.
Pennsylvania Dem silenced by opponent citing 'God's law'

Associated Press

Pennsylvania state Rep. Brian Sims (D)

As is the case in many states, many in Pennsylvania are considering how to proceed in the wake of the Supreme Court's ruling striking down the Defense of Marriage Act, and on Wednesday, state Rep. Brian Sims (D) of Philadelphia rose to address the issue with his legislative colleagues.

But Sims, the first openly gay member elected to the state House, was not allowed to deliver his remarks -- one of his colleagues raised a procedural objection to block him from speaking.

And why is that? Republican State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, who prevented Sims from addressing the chamber on DOMA, explained himself this way:

"I did not believe that as a member of that body that I should allow someone to make comments such as he was preparing to make that ultimately were just open rebellion against what the word of God has said, what God has said, and just open rebellion against God's law," Metcalfe had told WHYY of Philadelphia.

Maybe now would be a good time to note that the separation of church and state still exists; American policymakers' ability to discuss Supreme Court rulings should not be based on one person's interpretation of "God's law"; and theocracies, as a rule, are not a good idea.

Pressed for further explanation by the Associated Press, Metcalfe didn't back down, adding, "For me to allow him to say things that I believe are open rebellion against God are for me to participate in his open rebellion. There's no free speech on the floor."

Do you ever get the feeling some folks just aren't cut out for public service?

Let's also note that two of Sims' Democratic colleagues rose to defend him, and they were blocked from speaking, too.

Update: Metcalfe is the same state lawmaker who argued in 2009 that any U.S. military veteran who supports combating climate change "is a traitor." In an email Metcalfe wrote at the time, he added, "Remember Benedict Arnold before giving credibility to a veteran who uses their service as a means to promote a leftist agenda. Drill Baby Drill!!!


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I am most disgusted that other members of the legislature let it happen. Bullies need to be stopped by others.


would you believe two other members stepped in to defend Simms and they got shot down too! How and why does this happen? (damn, there goes the aneurysm)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I do not understand the outcry against voter id's in the US. I do not understand why it is racist to ask a person to present a photo id to prove they are who they say they are in order to vote. I bring this up because in Kenya the US is paying them $53,000,000 of our tax dollars to institute a photo id program that would require Kenyans to show their id in order to vote.
> 
> So if it is part of the Democratic process and a good policy in Kenya, why not in the US?


lovethelake
and where did this crap come from? Hello Christian, we see your intent. 
Obviously you have no clue about our Nation's history. MANY people's birth was never recorded and for them to get a Birth Certificate is impossible. That is exactly what the Republican are counting on. We will prevail in spite of all of the hatred coming our way particularly from so-called Christians on the right. You are teaching us more than you ever wanted to. Even though it is primarily people of color who have difficulty proving their birth place, there are still many whites in the same boat. I am getting into detail re. this issue to inform people from other parts of the world how things were and how they are.
By the way lovethelake People in Kenya also have Universal Health Care as have Citizens of many other 3rd world countries.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> would you believe two other members stepped in to defend Simms and they got shot down too! How and why does this happen? (damn, there goes the aneurysm)


This happens in the leading country in the free world? In the words of the great Flann OBriens Catechism of Cliché, What would it be if it werent so tragic? We know the answer to that.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I thought we might benefit from posting it in its entirety. Thank you for the link.
> Pennsylvania Dem silenced by opponent citing 'God's law'
> 
> Associated Press
> ...


alcameron
Thank you for posting the whole incident. Such abuse needs exposure.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Well, they don't seem to be learning to read, speak and write English very well. It may sound strange, but I am very glad my 8th grade English class spent a good bit of time teaching us to parse sentences, though it was a little boring at the time. I still remeber some of it and it is useful, at leat in my opinion. Let's hear it for more-aze!:thumbup: Nowadays I seem to have more trouble spelling and typing, and I'm getting too lazy to correct all my errors.


alcameron said:


> Here's a good one. Today on the radio I heard someone (political figure) talking about gay marriage and he said the word "mores" pronounced like "more" with an "s" on the end. It took me a minute but I figured out that he was saying the word "mores" that I always thought was pronounced more-aze. Then the female commentator talked about what he said and repeated the word just like he said it--more with an "s" at the end. When I got home I ran to the dictionary because I thought maybe the times had changed and I was using an archaic pronunciation. No, it's still more-aze. Is anyone learning anything at school?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

mopgenorth said:


> would you believe two other members stepped in to defend Simms and they got shot down too! How and why does this happen? (damn, there goes the aneurysm)


mopgenorth
I love your Avatar.
We can't let these monsters get to us. We just have to keep
publishing their misbehavior anywhere we can and as often as possible. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> This happens in the leading country in the free world? In the words of the great Flann OBriens Catechism of Cliché, What would it be if it werent so tragic? We know the answer to that.


aw9358
Thank you for the quote.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This is probably one of the very few things we agree about. I have always felt strange when I went to my poling place and didn't have to show my ID. I know they have the lists of registered voters and they cross them out as they come in, and I don't believe there is much voter fraud at all, but still... Why not be a little more careful over something as important as voting? If it's good for kenya, surely it's good for us, and who knows how many other countries.


lovethelake said:


> I do not understand the outcry against voter id's in the US. I do not understand why it is racist to ask a person to present a photo id to prove they are who they say they are in order to vote. I bring this up because in Kenya the US is paying them $53,000,000 of our tax dollars to institute a photo id program that would require Kenyans to show their id in order to vote.
> 
> So if it is part of the Democratic process and a good policy in Kenya, why not in the US?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> President Obama spent 3 years trying to bend over backwards to meet the repubs more than halfway. In fact, I was angry with him for doing that. Where did that get him? His efforts were totally rebuffed by the repubs in Congress. I think it's time for the other side to bend a little. They have obstructed everything he has tried to do and even invented all the stupid "scandals" to try to get rid of him. Not one "scandal" has been shown to be an actual scandal. There has been no criminal prosecution or proven wrong-doing. Darrell Issa is still slinking around DC trying to stoke the fire, but the embers are dead. How can you be proud of the House Repubs, in particular, for not doing the jobs they were sent there to do. That's on them, not on the President.


Where do you come up with this stuff? Invented the scandals? The IRS management has admitted to the targeting and admitted they were wrong. The hearings are going for prosecution. It will take more time because the documents/information the committees have requested have been stalled. The 2 managers from the IRS have pleaded the 5th and obviously will not answer any questions. There is plenty stalling on the administration's part in the hopes that it will all blow over. It won't as these are important issues for most of the people. Gun legislation and global warming - not so much - which is why Obama is not getting anywhere on those issues.

What is going on in Congress has been going on for quite a while. However, Obama has done a hell of a job fanning the flames and keeping the country divided.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's perfectly all right to try hard to be fair, but it shouldn't threaten your sanity, health or sense of humor.:thumbup:


mopgenorth said:


> I need to stop reading this crap before I blow an aneurysm...
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/28/19188843-pennsylvania-dem-silenced-by-opponent-citing-gods-law?lite
> 
> I try really hard be fair and balanced in my thinking and not be judgmental, but it literally blows my mind that there are actually people holding high office in this country that are this stupid (not to mention borish, rude, arrogant, and did I mention stupid?)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Where do you come up with this stuff? Invented the scandals? The IRS management has admitted to the targeting and admitted they were wrong. The hearings are going for prosecution. It will take more time because the documents/information the committees have requested have been stalled. The 2 managers from the IRS have pleaded the 5th and obviously will not answer any questions. There is plenty stalling on the administration's part in the hopes that it will all blow over. It won't as these are important issues for most of the people. Gun legislation and global warming - not so much - which is why Obama is not getting anywhere on those issues.
> 
> What is going on in Congress has been going on for quite a while. However, Obama has done a hell of a job fanning the flames and keeping the country divided.


soloweygirl
Try to keep pace with the news. Yours is too old to waste time with.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Where do you come up with this stuff? Invented the scandals? The IRS management has admitted to the targeting and admitted they were wrong. The hearings are going for prosecution. It will take more time because the documents/information the committees have requested have been stalled. The 2 managers from the IRS have pleaded the 5th and obviously will not answer any questions. There is plenty stalling on the administration's part in the hopes that it will all blow over. It won't as these are important issues for most of the people. Gun legislation and global warming - not so much - which is why Obama is not getting anywhere on those issues.
> 
> What is going on in Congress has been going on for quite a while. However, Obama has done a hell of a job fanning the flames and keeping the country divided.


Soloweygirl,

You are SO right. He has been unable to do his job. Thank you for your words.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> Try to keep pace with the news. Yours is too old to waste time with.


As usual, you make no sense.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> This is probably one of the very few things we agree about. I have always felt strange when I went to my poling place and didn't have to show my ID. I know they have the lists of registered voters and they cross them out as they come in, and I don't believe there is much voter fraud at all, but still... Why not be a little more careful over something as important as voting? If it's good for kenya, surely it's good for us, and who knows how many other countries.


SeattleSoul
The system has worked quite well until now. Voter fraud has been EXTREMELY rare. The reason for changes are ill meaning ones and that is what we object to.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual, you make no sense.


soloweygirl
As usual you are ill informed.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> The same tactic has been used in the past to prevent blacks in the South in voting. Now you are aware of the issue. Oh, how is it that you are unaware of the issue?


I was aware of that the issue happened decades ago. But having an id should be done to avoid voter fraud. Why is it such a problem to prove who you are in the United States but not a problem in Kenya? Why are we able to pay $53,000,000 for id's in Kenya but not provide them to registered voters here in the United States?

Sounds hypocritical, but not surprising with this Administration.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-touts-kenyan-program-obtain-national-id-cards-voter-registration_737990.html


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I do not understand the outcry against voter id's in the US. I do not understand why it is racist to ask a person to present a photo id to prove they are who they say they are in order to vote. I bring this up because in Kenya the US is paying them $53,000,000 of our tax dollars to institute a photo id program that would require Kenyans to show their id in order to vote.
> 
> So if it is part of the Democratic process and a good policy in Kenya, why not in the US?


Are you speaking about the recent decision by the Supreme Court? That decision was a huge victory for the Conservative point of view. The Court has put the state govts in charge and enforcement of confirming voters are US citizens when they vote, which is exactly what the Left and Dems did not want.

The right and enforcement of voter registration is no longer trumped on the Federal level and instead, put into the hands of each state.

So states can check citizenship of voters in their state if their laws are so written and someone who applied for voter registration on a Federal form have no recourse, than to justify their citizenship to the state wherein voting.

Huge Victory for Conservatives!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I disagree. Voting fraud is non-existent, as you say, but I believe there is a danger of going back to the pre-Civil Rights era. We should be putting our efforts into encouraging the vote. IMHO



SeattleSoul said:


> This is probably one of the very few things we agree about. I have always felt strange when I went to my poling place and didn't have to show my ID. I know they have the lists of registered voters and they cross them out as they come in, and I don't believe there is much voter fraud at all, but still... Why not be a little more careful over something as important as voting? If it's good for kenya, surely it's good for us, and who knows how many other countries.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I disagree completely.



soloweygirl said:


> Where do you come up with this stuff? Invented the scandals? The IRS management has admitted to the targeting and admitted they were wrong. The hearings are going for prosecution. It will take more time because the documents/information the committees have requested have been stalled. The 2 managers from the IRS have pleaded the 5th and obviously will not answer any questions. There is plenty stalling on the administration's part in the hopes that it will all blow over. It won't as these are important issues for most of the people. Gun legislation and global warming - not so much - which is why Obama is not getting anywhere on those issues.
> 
> What is going on in Congress has been going on for quite a while. However, Obama has done a hell of a job fanning the flames and keeping the country divided.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A minion, and also behind the news.



Lukelucy said:


> Soloweygirl,
> 
> You are SO right. He has been unable to do his job. Thank you for your words.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Au contraire.



soloweygirl said:


> As usual, you make no sense.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK. I'll try real slow, easy words.

"Decades ago." Know history or it will repeat endlessly.

"Voter Fraud." Doesn't happen enough to worry about.

"Kenya." Third world country without policies in place.

I wish you would accept and stop repeating what you wish to be true. That would be dignified.



lovethelake said:


> I was aware of that the issue happened decades ago. But having an id should be done to avoid voter fraud. Why is it such a problem to prove who you are in the United States but not a problem in Kenya? Why are we able to pay $53,000,000 for id's in Kenya but not provide them to registered voters here in the United States?
> 
> Sounds hypocritical, but not surprising with this Administration.
> 
> http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-touts-kenyan-program-obtain-national-id-cards-voter-registration_737990.html


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ignored.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you speaking about the recent decision by the Supreme Court? That decision was a huge victory for the Conservative point of view. The Court has put the state govts in charge and enforcement of confirming voters are US citizens when they vote, which is exactly what the Left and Dems did not want.
> 
> The right and enforcement of voter registration is no longer trumped on the Federal level and instead, put into the hands of each state.
> 
> ...


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> OK. I'll try real slow, easy words.
> 
> "Decades ago." Know history or it will repeat endlessly.
> 
> ...


I w i l l g o e v e n sssssllllllllooooooowwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeer

If we are to learn from something that happened decades ago and are fearful it would be repeated, and the way to prevent it from being repeated are voter id's, why not?

Kenya being a third world country is not the issue. The issue is that we are giving them $53,000,000 to provide id's so that they can participate in the democratic process. Even if there is even some voter fraud here, let's get even less voter fraud and get a photo id's for everyone. What is the big deal? I am sure it would cost the United States to provide those that do not have a photo id far less than $53,000,000. What are those against voter id's afraid of?

And I wish you would give up your arrogant attitude and stop telling people what to do. Your impolite demands are not only crass, but lack class. If you do not like what I have said, then copying it and pasting it is redundant, because you get to read it again.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey KPG, I have a question. If you did not like what I said would you continue to quote my reply so that my point is made again? Almost like free advertising, don't you think?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Hey KPG, I have a question. If you did not like what I said would you continue to quote my reply so that my point is made again? Almost like free advertising, don't you think?


Yes, you are correct. Damemary claims she ignores or blah, blah, blahs posts she doesn't agree with, yet she copies/pastes the exact quotes so we do get free marketing and our posts repeated - we love that! Not only is she not ignoring our posts, but she's also repeating them and commenting on them.

BTW: she isn't very bright nor does she know adverbs and grammar

dame; Type slow*ly* so you don't seem such an idiot for the age you are.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

This is unbelievable. California has just gotten a $1,000,000 grant to help children convince their parents to enroll in Obamacare. Wonder how the children who do not have parents will feel about this indoctrination? Bet their feelings will be hurt. How cruel


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> This is probably one of the very few things we agree about. I have always felt strange when I went to my poling place and didn't have to show my ID. I know they have the lists of registered voters and they cross them out as they come in, and I don't believe there is much voter fraud at all, but still... Why not be a little more careful over something as important as voting? If it's good for kenya, surely it's good for us, and who knows how many other countries.


lovethelake
would like to get the site which states that we gave 53 Million to Kenya for voter I.D. So far no-where to be found. I would like get first hand information. So far coming up empty everywhere.
Anybodyelse who can supply valid information regarding this. please, post. Thank you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> would like to get the site which states that we gave 53 Million to Kenya for voter I.D. So far no-where to be found. I would like get first hand information. So far coming up empty everywhere.
> Anybodyelse who can supply valid information regarding this. please, post. Thank you.


Actually, there's this:

http://kenya.usaid.gov/programs/education-and-youth/1497

The voter ID thing is but one part of a program called Yes Youth Can, the aim of which is to develop peaceful leaders among the Kenyan 18 to 35 set. The overall aim is to build youth-led communities called bunges, which emphasize income-earning activities such poultry raising and tea-growing, environmental conservation, infrastructure rebuilding, sanitation etc etc.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, you are correct. Damemary claims she ignores or blah, blah, blahs posts she doesn't agree with, yet she copies/pastes the exact quotes so we do get free marketing and our posts repeated - we love that! Not only is she not ignoring our posts, but she's also repeating them and commenting on them.
> 
> BTW: she isn't very bright nor does she know adverbs and grammar
> 
> dame; Type slow*ly* so you don't seem such an idiot for the age you are.


If you're criticizing her use of the word "slow" you are wrong. She used "slow" as an adjective, not an adverb, therefore no "ly." Now who's the idiot? Your words, not mind.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, there's this:
> 
> http://kenya.usaid.gov/programs/education-and-youth/1497
> 
> The voter ID thing is but one part of a program called Yes Youth Can, the aim of which is to develop peaceful leaders among the Kenyan 18 to 35 set. The overall aim is to build youth-led communities called bunges, which emphasize income-earning activities such poultry raising and tea-growing, environmental conservation, infrastructure rebuilding, sanitation etc etc.


Thanks for the link.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Hey KPG, I have a question. If you did not like what I said would you continue to quote my reply so that my point is made again? Almost like free advertising, don't you think?


lovethelake
YES because we like nonsense and fiction to become exposed over and over again.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Thanks for the link.


No problem. It sounds like an interesting program, and I'll be curious to see how it works out.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No problem. It sounds like an interesting program, and I'll be curious to see how it works out.


I thought so too, loved reading about the person who said having that ID card was going to change their life.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Now who's the idiot?


You


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You


You just can't stand being wrong, can you, dear? You make yourself look foolish when you criticize someone and don't know what you're talking about. Do you have a PhD in grammar?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I thought so too, loved reading about the person who said having that ID card was going to change their life.


Yes, it's amazing the things we Americans take for granted. At any given time 10-15% of Americans lack proper identification...so strange to hear about other countries where folks are willing to wait for hour, days, even weeks for such a privilege. We really have it easy compared to them.


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## Meerkat (May 16, 2013)

Same old crap nothing new with the Democrats.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> YES because we like nonsense and fiction to become exposed over and over again.


"We" Aren't you capable of speaking your own opinion, or do you need to be part of a group to attempt to make sense?

But knowing that, I guess your group had to do your research. All you had to do it search "Kenya voting id" and you get the links. In case you don't know, you go to Google, Bing or Firefox and in the little rectangular box you type in "Kenya voting id" and by algores amazing internet you can find answers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, there's this:
> 
> http://kenya.usaid.gov/programs/education-and-youth/1497
> 
> The voter ID thing is but one part of a program called Yes Youth Can, the aim of which is to develop peaceful leaders among the Kenyan 18 to 35 set. The overall aim is to build youth-led communities called bunges, which emphasize income-earning activities such poultry raising and tea-growing, environmental conservation, infrastructure rebuilding, sanitation etc etc.


susanmos2000
See page 89 - lovethelake - she states that the US gave Kenya 53 Million $$ for voter IDs. 
That is not what the site states. It states that they have a budget of $ 55 Million and that is for their many WONDERFUL projects which I hope will provide them with life, liberty and happiness. The undertaking incl. voter ID but that is far from us giving them 53 Million for voter I.D. - Am I missing something here?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> This is unbelievable. California has just gotten a $1,000,000 grant to help children convince their parents to enroll in Obamacare. Wonder how the children who do not have parents will feel about this indoctrination? Bet their feelings will be hurt. How cruel


lovethelake
children who have no parents have guardians who act as their parents. Any money being spend to keep children healthy is money well spend.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Susan the entire point was not the exact amount of money, it is why is it good for democracy in Kenya to have photo id's to vote, but not in the US.

It is hypocrisy. The left goes insane when registered voters are asked to prove who they are here in the US. BUT Obama will give money to make id's for voting in other countries.

That is what 'she' is missing (among other things)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Susan the entire point was not the exact amount of money, it is why is it good for democracy in Kenya to have photo id's to vote, but not in the US.
> 
> It is hypocrisy. The left goes insane when registered voters are asked to prove who they are here in the US. BUT Obama will give money to make id's for voting in other countries.
> 
> That is what 'she' is missing (among other things)


lovethelake
trying to twist your stuff again. Read what you wrote, you stated quite clearly that we gave 53 Million for voter I.D. to Kenya. An other twist of the truth - no wonder I could not locate it anywhere. Gotcha again.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it's amazing the things we Americans take for granted. At any given time 10-15% of Americans lack proper identification...so strange to hear about other countries where folks are willing to wait for hour, days, even weeks for such a privilege. We really have it easy compared to them.


susanmos2000
many countries have an official photo ID - now a fingerprint ID - Americans have always resisted such ID and the Politicians were in their corner until now when it becomes advantages for a certain political entity to make it mandatory when they know exactly how difficult it is for some of our Citizens. And that exactly is what they are hoping for to keep a large segment of our society from voting. They give a monkey's behind about voter fraud, they want voter participation reduction, that simple.

Had we had laws in the past which mandated that all birth are officially registered, we could ask for voter ID based on a Birth Certificate. As it stands, that is totally undemocratic. Not only do some people not have a Birth Certificate, they do not even know which town they were born in. Their parents were tenant farmers and moved frequently. Children were born at home and no birth recorded anywhere and never went to School. I am very familiar with the plight of people like that. I am a History buff and became very familiar with people in these situations; met quite a few over time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> many countries have an official photo ID - now a fingerprint ID - Americans have always resisted such ID and the Politicians were in their corner until now when it becomes advantages for a certain political entity to make it mandatory when they know exactly how difficult it is for some of our Citizens. And that exactly is what they are hoping for to keep a large segment of our society from voting. They give a monkey's behind about voter fraud, they want voter participation reduction, that simple.
> 
> Had we had laws in the past which mandated that all birth are officially registered, we could ask for voter ID based on a Birth Certificate. As it stand, that is totally undemocratic. Not only do some people not have a Birth Certificate, they do not even know which town they were born in. Their parents were tenant farmers and moved frequently. Children were born at home and no birth recorded anywhere and never went to School. I am very familiar with the plight of people like that. I am a History buff and became very familiar with people in these situations; met quite a few over time.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Susan the entire point was not the exact amount of money, it is why is it good for democracy in Kenya to have photo id's to vote, but not in the US.
> 
> It is hypocrisy. The left goes insane when registered voters are asked to prove who they are here in the US. BUT Obama will give money to make id's for voting in other countries.
> 
> That is what 'she' is missing (among other things)


lovethelake
trying to clean up for Susan? It won't work. Most of us are very good at reading and understanding what is written. You were trying to give an other dig into President Obama and it backfired didn't it!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You just can't stand being wrong, can you, dear? You make yourself look foolish when you criticize someone and don't know what you're talking about. Do you have a PhD in grammar?


alcameron
probably a yes like: Piled high and Deep


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, that has always been the way I felt about politics, but why do people have to become so hateful? Yes, I was becoming hateful too, but how would you feel if someone kept posting a Raid Can and a bug turned upside down dead? It showed such low class. Yes, I too went to Cheeky's level and others who were hateful to me.
> 
> It seems to me that no matter what my friends say, someone writes something hateful such as "you are really stupid" without trying to give their opinions nicely. That is why there is such a conflict.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well Janeway but please do not pretend that you are such a nice person. First of all I never used the RAID can. The RAID can belongs to Patty. I think it is sad that you can't tell the difference between a picture of a can and a real can of bug spray. You do understand the picture cannot harm you don't you? Also, I have seen you attack myself and others before anyone even said something to you so don't play the game that you would be nice but you can't be because other's say mean things to you. Why do you keep coming back for the abuse then? One would think if you are truly hurt you would wisely stay away but you don't. Don't blame others for your nasty behavior. It reminds me of little kids blaming others when the do something stupid and i don't believe you are a child are you? Take responsibility for your own actions. I do truly hope you will be feeling better soon. I can tell the difference between real people and political discussion that can get heated at times and I hope you will too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> would you believe two other members stepped in to defend Simms and they got shot down too! How and why does this happen? (damn, there goes the aneurysm)


Thanks for posting the link. It sickens me that people can be so hateful. They know what they are doing is wrong and they carry on and do and say the most disgusting things. They can't accept the world is changing and they don't want to just maintain the status quo but go even further back in time. The good old days for them were when certain people knew their place in society and didn't dare upset the traditions of racism and sexism in this country. I don't understand anyone who can insist on these things for themselves but deny it to others. God loves all of us equally.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> This happens in the leading country in the free world? In the words of the great Flann OBriens Catechism of Cliché, What would it be if it werent so tragic? We know the answer to that.


Sad isn't it, Anne.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I was aware of that the issue happened decades ago. But having an id should be done to avoid voter fraud. Why is it such a problem to prove who you are in the United States but not a problem in Kenya? Why are we able to pay $53,000,000 for id's in Kenya but not provide them to registered voters here in the United States?
> 
> Sounds hypocritical, but not surprising with this Administration.
> 
> http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-touts-kenyan-program-obtain-national-id-cards-voter-registration_737990.html


So typical. You fall for the hysterical screed rather than bothering to do some independent research. And once again, you end up looking foolish when the facts prove you wrong. Not exactly a sign of intelligence, sweetie.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Where do you come up with this stuff? Invented the scandals? The IRS management has admitted to the targeting and admitted they were wrong. The hearings are going for prosecution. It will take more time because the documents/information the committees have requested have been stalled. The 2 managers from the IRS have pleaded the 5th and obviously will not answer any questions. There is plenty stalling on the administration's part in the hopes that it will all blow over. It won't as these are important issues for most of the people. Gun legislation and global warming - not so much - which is why Obama is not getting anywhere on those issues.
> 
> What is going on in Congress has been going on for quite a while. However, Obama has done a hell of a job fanning the flames and keeping the country divided.


Wrong as usual. What is your side doing? Nothing as usual. What you decide is a scandal is laughable. What your party does is disgusting. A bunch of hateful narrow minded folks who can't accept the world is changing. Well tough. Get used to it. People around the world don't understand why the GOP is carrying on in Washington by doing nothing. Obama isn't perfect but he is a lot better than anyone on your side. You can't even name one of your own and say what good they have done for the country. Now that is sad and I pray the God will bless this country in spite of all the hateful people on the right. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual, you make no sense.


As usual you make no sense. Your ignorance of the world around you is stunning. You just keep hauling out your same old c--p. Did you know there is new news each day being reported? Are you really that lazy that you can't even keep yourself updated on what is currently going on. This quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth describes you perfectly;

It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

If you think this is necessary how are you going to pay for it? Since you want voter ID then you should also want standardized means of casting votes in all states so elections can't be fixed. How will you pay for that? I thought the GOP is against taxes but how else would this be able to be accomplished and how much will this cost?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was aware of that the issue happened decades ago. But having an id should be done to avoid voter fraud. Why is it such a problem to prove who you are in the United States but not a problem in Kenya? Why are we able to pay $53,000,000 for id's in Kenya but not provide them to registered voters here in the United States?
> 
> Sounds hypocritical, but not surprising with this Administration.
> 
> http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-touts-kenyan-program-obtain-national-id-cards-voter-registration_737990.html


Here is the rest of the story that lakelady decided to leave out. Her edited version was so much more compatible with her biases. You really are a piece of work. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself and lukelucy.

The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release June 27, 2013

FACT SHEET: U.S. Support for Strengthening Democratic Institutions, Rule of Law, and Human Rights in Sub-Saharan Africa

The United States strongly supports the great strides many African countries have made to ensure good governance, rule of law, and respect for human rights. We commend the progress they have made to broaden political participation and improve governance, and will remain a steady partner as they continue to work to strengthen electoral processes, ensure transparency and accountability in government, and provide security while respecting and protecting universal rights and fundamental freedoms.

In addition to our ongoing diplomacy and our efforts in multilateral institutions, in 2012 the United States  through the U.S. Department of State and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID)  provided more than $292 million in support for these efforts, including in the following priority areas:

Supporting Civil Society and Independent Media

Civil society and independent media play a critical role in any vibrant democracy. Across sub-Saharan Africa, the United States supports efforts to ensure civil society organizations and independent media can organize, advocate, and raise awareness with governments and the private sector to improve political processes, transparency, and government performance. Examples include:

In Kenya, the $53 million Yes Youth Can program empowers nearly one million Kenyan youth to use their voices for advocacy in national and local policy-making, while also creating economic opportunities. In advance of Kenyas March 2013 general elections, Yes Youth Cans My ID My Life campaign helped 500,000 youth obtain National identification cards, a prerequisite to voter registration, and carried out a successful nationwide campaign with Kenyan civic organizations to elicit peace pledges from all presidential aspirants.
In Tanzania, the United States has dedicated $14 million to strengthening government accountability institutions and linking them with Tanzanian civil society watchdog groups and civic activists in a constructive partnership to further government transparency. The program focuses on improving access to information for Tanzanian citizens in four key development sectors: health, education, natural resource management, and food security. 
The United States will soon launch a program in West Africa to build the capacity of civil society organizations to responsibly advocate on land tenure issues, including land rights, working closely with governments and the private sector to improve responsible natural resource utilization and the protection and advancement of human rights and economic development.
Assisting Credible Elections and Democratic Processes

Elections provide citizens with the opportunity to build strong, peaceful democratic systems and give citizens a stake in the future of their countries. The United States supports efforts across the continent to promote credible, transparent and effective democratic processes through civic and voter education, building the capacity of African election commissions, strengthening political parties, training and supporting election observers, and facilitating the inclusion of women, youth, and people with disabilities. We also partner with regional centers of excellence to share best practices in electoral management and build capacity for improved elections implementation. Examples include:

The United States and the University of South Africa are partners in developing a network of alumni from the universitys Democratic Elections in Africa Certificate Program for African election officials and other administrators, leading to more professional, independent, and effective electoral commissions across the continent.
This summer, the United States will launch an initiative to strengthen African efforts to ensure electoral integrity by supporting a network of activists across the continent to share best practices for elections preparation, engage in cross-border elections monitoring, and track adherence to campaign commitments using the latest technological and mobile platforms. This investment lays the groundwork for a larger multi-donor, multi-implementer fund focused on improving the standards and best practices for electoral monitoring and civic engagement.
Consolidating the Rule of Law and Protecting Human Rights

Many countries in Africa have made good progress on strengthening the rule of law, but much work remains. In some parts of the continent weak, ineffective, and partisan judiciaries contribute to  or fail to provide justice in the face of  a range of societal scourges, including gender-based violence, organized crime, impunity and corruption, labor abuses, and human and narcotics trafficking. The United States supports efforts to improve the ability of governments to strengthen the rule of law, particularly in transitional and fragile states. Our programs also assist governments to investigate and prosecute corruption, organized crime, and narcotics and human traffickers. Examples include:

In West Africa, the United States has established the Africa Regional Anti-Corruption Training Program, a two-year initiative to support the establishment of stable judicial and law enforcement institutions that combat organized crime and drug cartels and support rule of law.
With U.S. support, the West Africa Regional Training Center (RTC) brings together justice sector and security officials from across the region, creating relationships and boosting knowledge and skills on topics ranging from investigative analysis to combating corruption. By September, the RTC will have conducted 12 courses and trained approximately 400 officials from ten West African countries to combat government corruption, organized crime and drug cartels, and support rule of law.
In Southern Africa, the 5-year Justice as a Right in Southern Africa (JARSA) program partners more than a dozen Southern African legal aid and human rights NGOs to increase judicial independence, improve the capacity of human rights lawyers and the legal community to enforce the rule of law, and encourage active civic participation in domestic and regional judicial processes.
Partnering to Promote Open Government and Transparency

The United States is committed to promoting open and accountable governance in Africa and around the world. As a founding member of the Open Government Partnership, we are working to secure concrete commitments from governments to promote transparency, empower citizens, fight corruption, and harness new technologies. South Africa was a founding member of the Open Government Partnership when it was launched in 2011. Since then, four more African nations Tanzania, Ghana, Liberia, and Kenya  have joined, and four more  Cape Verde, Malawi, Senegal, and Sierra Leone  have committed to join by the end of 2014.

Leveraging Technology to Revolutionize Governance and Civic Participation

The United States continues to expand support for cutting-edge technological innovations that improve government performance and accountability, open new frontiers for advocacy and civic engagement, and link Africas tech-savvy citizens and leaders across the continent. Examples include:

The United States, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the Omidyar Network Making created All Voices Count: A Grand Challenge for Development, a $45 million fund to support innovation and research to harness and disseminate new technologies to enable greater citizen engagement and government responsiveness.
The Freedom of Information Act App, a mobile phone application supported by the United States, provides Nigerians with a detailed explanation on the newly-implemented Nigerian freedom of information law and allows users to get information on how to request public information.
Kenya, Malawi, and Senegal have partnered with the United States to join the Better Than Cash Alliance, through which they can accelerate the transition from cash to electronic payments made by governments, the development community, and the private sector. The electronic distribution of payments increases transparency and efficiency, reduces corruption, and ensures accountability  while facilitating access to formal financial services. The Better than Cash Alliance was launched in 2012 by the U.S. Agency for International Development in partnership with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Citi, Ford Foundation, Omidyar Network, Visa, and the United Nations Capital Development Fund.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> If you think this is necessary how are you going to pay for it? Since you want voter ID then you should also want standardized means of casting votes in all states so elections can't be fixed. How will you pay for that? I thought the GOP is against taxes but how else would this be able to be accomplished and how much will this cost?


Cheeky Blighter
You are pointing out a number of voting issues. Those will never concern the GOP, they are only interested in denying voting for a certain segment of our Citizens, that the rest of us have to struggle with ancient methods of voting is no concern of theirs. With the technology available now, voting should be a cinch and definitely universal. Still having some places counting slips of paper is laughable and having to wait for some voting results for days or even weeks is horrendous. We could be the greatest country on earth in every respect, why are we not?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you speaking about the recent decision by the Supreme Court? That decision was a huge victory for the Conservative point of view. The Court has put the state govts in charge and enforcement of confirming voters are US citizens when they vote, which is exactly what the Left and Dems did not want.
> 
> The right and enforcement of voter registration is no longer trumped on the Federal level and instead, put into the hands of each state.
> 
> ...


The only way the righties are going to be able to win is pulling this kind of c__p and they know it and then TM brags about it. Why am I not surprised. You and your party are a big joke. It's too bad it hurts all the rest of us in the U.S. and abroad. I know you all feel superior to the rest of the world in your white supremacy thinking but the times they are a changing and soon you will be in the minority and my oh my how will you survive when that happens?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here is the rest of the story that lakelady decided to leave out. Her edited version was so much more compatible with her biases. You really are a piece of work. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself and lukelucy.
> 
> The White House
> Office of the Press Secretary
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
T H A N K Y O U. Everyone should know how things get twisted and turn into horrendous lies. In this case a 53 Million Dollar lie. That is not acceptable. THANK YOU AGAIN.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

No problem Huck. lakelady is a lot of hot air much like tm. They post whatever serves their purpose and run away when their manipulations of the truth are exposed. They are really pitiful.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The only way the righties are going to be able to win is pulling this kind of c__p and they know it and then TM brags about it. Why am I not surprised. You and your party are a big joke. It's too bad it hurts all the rest of us in the U.S. and abroad. I know you all feel superior to the rest of the world in your white supremacy thinking but the times they are a changing and soon you will be in the minority and my oh my how will you survive when that happens?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

FreedomFries said:


> So typical. You fall for the hysterical screed rather than bothering to do some independent research. And once again, you end up looking foolish when the facts prove you wrong. Not exactly a sign of intelligence, sweetie.


FreedomFries
It is actually rather disturbing to read again and again the lies some people post even though they know we catch them. Blatantly posting that we (USA) gave $ 53 Million to Kenya for Voter IDs is just one example. Some folks have absolutely no shame. They lie with Bible in hand.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No problem Huck. lakelady is a lot of hot air much like tm. They post whatever serves their purpose and run away when their manipulations of the truth are exposed. They are really pitiful.


Cheeky Blighter
So true, example, where is thumper? On the run I guess. Actually very smart of her to disappear. Some horrendous accusations she made.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> This is probably one of the very few things we agree about. I have always felt strange when I went to my poling place and didn't have to show my ID. I know they have the lists of registered voters and they cross them out as they come in, and I don't believe there is much voter fraud at all, but still... Why not be a little more careful over something as important as voting? If it's good for kenya, surely it's good for us, and who knows how many other countries.


I think requiring voter ID is just another way to suppress the votes of people who would have a lot of difficulty getting the ID. In this country we've been voting for years with no problem with voter fraud. That leads me to believe the whole hue and cry about ID serves to make it more difficult for SOME people to vote.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> many countries have an official photo ID - now a fingerprint ID - Americans have always resisted such ID and the Politicians were in their corner until now when it becomes advantages for a certain political entity to make it mandatory when they know exactly how difficult it is for some of our Citizens. And that exactly is what they are hoping for to keep a large segment of our society from voting. They give a monkey's behind about voter fraud, they want voter participation reduction, that simple.
> 
> Had we had laws in the past which mandated that all birth are officially registered, we could ask for voter ID based on a Birth Certificate. As it stands, that is totally undemocratic. Not only do some people not have a Birth Certificate, they do not even know which town they were born in. Their parents were tenant farmers and moved frequently. Children were born at home and no birth recorded anywhere and never went to School. I am very familiar with the plight of people like that. I am a History buff and became very familiar with people in these situations; met quite a few over time.


Agree 100%. I've always considered the voter ID question something of a tempest in a teapot. It's the sad truth that the majority of Americans simply don't trouble themselves to cast a ballot--why on earth do some folks want to place more impediments between our citizens and the polling place? (rhetorical question--I know the answer  )
The fact that Kenyans desperately need that ID card for voting, school, and everything else in their lives is because so many lack immunization record, educational transcripts, birth certificates, utility bills, and other bits of official paper that show who they are and where they've lived. We don't. Probably every one us has a dozen cards in our wallet that show our name, address, and very possibly a photograph--and certainly all of us have wads of bills from the phone company, Visa, the doctor's office, that are reasonable proof that we are who we say we are. We live far from invisible lives, and polling officials demanding a government ID is just a seemingly silly nuisance that will have far graver consequences.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think requiring voter ID is just another way to suppress the votes of people who would have a lot of difficulty getting the ID. In this country we've been voting for years with no problem with voter fraud. That leads me to believe the whole hue and cry about ID serves to make it more difficult for SOME people to vote.


Yes, the 10-15% who at any given time have no official ID--and especially the 25% of African-Americans who lack both a driver's license and a state ID card. Just another effort to keep them out of the voting booth.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm much more concerned with the Supreme Court decision to repeal most of the voting rights act. Although the decision was based on the thought that the act was no longer needed because times have changed, I think this decision was ill-advised and will allow states to make it more difficult for minorities to vote.
Ruth Bader-Ginsburg wrote the dissenting opinion and cited many examples of discriminatory regulations.
According to Justice Ginsbergs dissenting opinion, between 1982 and 2006 the Department of Justice blocked over 700 voting changes based on a determination that the changes were discriminatory. She lists the following examples:

1. In 1995 Mississippi tried to revive a dual-voter system, in which voters were required to register separately for federal and state elections. The law was first enacted in 1892 to disenfranchise black voters. The Department of Justice struck down the law on the grounds that it discriminated against minority voters.

2. In 2000 the Department of Justice rejected a redistricting scheme in the city of Albany, Georgia, because it deliberately weakened the black vote.

3. When an unprecedented number of African-Americans decided to run for office in Kilmichael, Mississippi in 2001, the all-white Board of Alderman canceled local elections. The Department of Justice mandated that the elections occur, and three black aldermen and the towns first black mayor were subsequently elected.

4. In response to a Supreme Court order in 2006 prohibiting Texas from redistricting in order to weaken [email protected] votes, the state sought to restrict early voting. The Department of Justice blocked the state action.

5. In 2003, when African-Americans won a majority of seats on the school board in Charleston, South Carolina, the county tried to introduce an at-large voting system that would prevent proportional representation and weaken the black vote. The Department of Justice ruled that the system was discriminatory and violated the Voting Rights Act.

6. In 1993 the Department of Justice blocked a motion by the city of Millen, Georgia to delay an election in a predominantly black district by two years, leaving it without representation.

7. In 2004, Waller County, Texas attempted to curtail early voting at polling places near a historically black university.

8. In 1990, Dallas County, Alabama sought to disenfranchise voters who did not return a voter update form. The Department of Justice ruled that the action was discriminatory and unnecessary.

But those arent all. Within the last twenty, ten, and even two years, weve seen no shortage of attempts to disenfranchise people of color, young people, elderly people, felons and former felons. Many times, these actions didnt make it far thanks to federal intervention.

9. In 2011, eight statesAlabama, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsinpassed voter identification laws. With one tenth of the population without identification, the law would discourage the votes of minorities, students, seniors, and people in rural areas. 24 other states introduced voter identification laws that year.

10. In 2011 Florida and Texas passed restrictions on non-profit voter registration drives. These non-profits, such as the League of Women Voters, have proved incredibly effective at helping eligible citizen register to vote, especially on college campuses and in areas with low voter turnout.

11. In 2011 Florida passed a law reducing the early voting period by nearly half and effectively limiting black, Latina and Democratic votes, as those groups constitute the majority of early voters. Ohio, West Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, and Wisconsin also reduced their early voting periods.

12. Partly as a result of reduced early voting, lines at the polls proved unbearable for some 201,000 Florida voters who left before casting their ballots in the 2012 Presidential Election.

13. In 2012, billboards erected in predominantly black neighborhoods in Cincinnati threatened that VOTER FRAUD IS A FELONY!

14. Last week the Supreme Court struck down Arizonas law requiring proof of citizenship at the polls. The law would have targeted and suppressed minority, and in particular Latina, votes. 17 other states introduced similar legislation in 2011, and proof of citizenship laws passed in Alabama, Kansas and Tennessee. A study by the Black Youth Project predicted that these kinds of laws will disenfranchise approximately 700,000 young minority voters.

15. In a recent Los Angeles mayoral race, candidates confused Latina voters by releasing misinformation about the opponents immigration and labor policies.

16. In a 2010 gubernatorial election in Maryland, one candidates campaign manager authorized misleading robocalls to predominantly black counties that encouraged voters to stay home rather than go to the polls.

Just like racial discrimination, voter suppression isnt all in the past. Hours after the Supreme Court released its decision, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott announced that the states voter identification law, perhaps the most stringent in the country, would go into effect immediately. Last year under the Section 5 pre-clearance provision a group of federal judges struck down the law, claiming that it imposed strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor, and in particular on racial minority groups. Texas lawmakers wasted no time.

Its easy to remove ourselves from the past, to underscore how weve changed rather than acknowledge historical continuities. But the overwhelming evidence of suppression aimed at minority groups whose votes could affect the status quo shows, if nothing else, that the systems of racism that disenfranchised citizens in 1965 still existthat weve inherited and in many ways actively perpetuated them. Underlying the majority opinion is a frustratingly elementary notion of racism: so long as we dont physically obstruct individuals from voting, minority disenfranchisement is a vaporous claim.

In her statement of dissent Justice Ginsberg refers to contemporary acts of voter suppression as second-generation barriers. Her language is apt: the racial discrimination we see now may not look exactly like the flagrant racism of the 1960s, but it is no doubt a close relative. Our voter identification and proof of citizenship laws are not far removed from literacy tests and grandfather clauses. These 16 examples and more affirm that the Voting Rights Act is still relevant, and still necessary  in full.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree 100%. I've always considered the voter ID question something of a tempest in a teapot. It's the sad truth that the majority of Americans simply don't trouble themselves to cast a ballot--why on earth do some folks want to place more impediments between our citizens and the polling place? (rhetorical question--I know the answer  )
> The fact that Kenyans desperately need that ID card for voting, school, and everything else in their lives is because so many lack immunization record, educational transcripts, birth certificates, utility bills, and other bits of official paper that show who they are and where they've lived. We don't. Probably every one us has a dozen cards in our wallet that show our name, address, and very possibly a photograph--and certainly all of us have wads of bills from the phone company, Visa, the doctor's office, that are reasonable proof that we are who we say we are. We live far from invisible lives, and polling officials demanding a government ID is just a seemingly silly nuisance that will have far graver consequences.


susanmos2000
Thank you very much. Wonderful points you make.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I'm much more concerned with the Supreme Court decision to repeal most of the voting rights act. Although the decision was based on the thought that the act was no longer needed because times have changed, I think this decision was ill-advised and will allow states to make it more difficult for minorities to vote.
> Ruth Bader-Ginsburg wrote the dissenting opinion and cited many examples of discriminatory regulations.
> According to Justice Ginsbergs dissenting opinion, between 1982 and 2006 the Department of Justice blocked over 700 voting changes based on a determination that the changes were discriminatory. She lists the following examples:
> 
> ...


alcameron
Many thanks, I copied and will study it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No lovethelake. I think it proves that you are ......foolish.



lovethelake said:


> Hey KPG, I have a question. If you did not like what I said would you continue to quote my reply so that my point is made again? Almost like free advertising, don't you think?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry, I have tried to research that very topic.....giving $53M to Kenya for voter ID. I would love to see any information that anyone can substantiate.



Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> would like to get the site which states that we gave 53 Million to Kenya for voter I.D. So far no-where to be found. I would like get first hand information. So far coming up empty everywhere.
> Anybodyelse who can supply valid information regarding this. please, post. Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I read it and it makes sense. An attempt to introduce political structure to the country. But how does this transfer to voter ID for Kenya but not for USA?



susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, there's this:
> 
> http://kenya.usaid.gov/programs/education-and-youth/1497
> 
> The voter ID thing is but one part of a program called Yes Youth Can, the aim of which is to develop peaceful leaders among the Kenyan 18 to 35 set. The overall aim is to build youth-led communities called bunges, which emphasize income-earning activities such poultry raising and tea-growing, environmental conservation, infrastructure rebuilding, sanitation etc etc.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Andrea.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

KPG PHD pretty horrendous dupe.



alcameron said:


> You just can't stand being wrong, can you, dear? You make yourself look foolish when you criticize someone and don't know what you're talking about. Do you have a PhD in grammar?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We are not the greatest country on earth because some luddites feel giving something to everyone takes something from them.

Ideas like this have been known to lead to revolution. People who have been subjugated for too long resort to violence. This doesn't usually turn out well for the luddites. (ref French Revolution. )



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> You are pointing out a number of voting issues. Those will never concern the GOP, they are only interested in denying voting for a certain segment of our Citizens, that the rest of us have to struggle with ancient methods of voting is no concern of theirs. With the technology available now, voting should be a cinch and definitely universal. Still having some places counting slips of paper is laughable and having to wait for some voting results for days or even weeks is horrendous. We could be the greatest country on earth in every respect, why are we not?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They think people think it's true just because they write it. And no wonder we feel obligated to refute each accusation. I don't think they've been completely truthful once....but they keep flinging it.



Huckleberry said:


> FreedomFries
> It is actually rather disturbing to read again and again the lies some people post even though they know we catch them. Blatantly posting that we (USA) gave $ 53 Million to Kenya for Voter IDs is just one example. Some folks have absolutely no shame. They lie with Bible in hand.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Huck. You isolate another typical tactic....hit and run. Thumper will come slinking back one day and pretend she doesn't know what we're talking about. I'm ready. How about you?



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> So true, example, where is thumper? On the run I guess. Actually very smart of her to disappear. Some horrendous accusations she made.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think requiring voter ID is just another way to suppress the votes of people who would have a lot of difficulty getting the ID. In this country we've been voting for years with no problem with voter fraud. That leads me to believe the whole hue and cry about ID serves to make it more difficult for SOME people to vote.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. Soon.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20130405/180451358.html

classic


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, the 10-15% who at any given time have no official ID--and especially the 25% of African-Americans who lack both a driver's license and a state ID card. Just another effort to keep them out of the voting booth.[/quote
> 
> No, they should get one. No one is keeping anyone from getting an id. You need an id at the: bank, airport, doctor's office, SS office, to get government assistance, help from FEMA, ...........
> 
> It is an photo id, not a driver's license. Had to get one for my kids in HS so when they traveled on sports teams they had an id. No big deal. Unless you are over 80 there should be paperwork to prove you were born in the US. (Unless you were born in Hawaii, then you can't I guess).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If that is your opinion, and if it is true, we'll just have to volunteer to help every single potential voter with problems. Then they will vote largely for the Democratic party. I'm okay with that. Are you?



lovethelake said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the 10-15% who at any given time have no official ID--and especially the 25% of African-Americans who lack both a driver's license and a state ID card. Just another effort to keep them out of the voting booth.[/quote
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> No, they should get one. No one is keeping anyone from getting an id. You need an id at the: bank, airport, doctor's office, SS office, to get government assistance, help from FEMA, ...........
> 
> It is an photo id, not a driver's license. Had to get one for my kids in HS so when they traveled on sports teams they had an id. No big deal. Unless you are over 80 there should be paperwork to prove you were born in the US. (Unless you were born in Hawaii, then you can't I guess).


LTL: the Libs in this thread cannot accept the fact that the Supreme Court, last week, ruled for the times and recognized that the old laws of the Fed govt controlling the states' voting laws were no longer necessary. The Supreme Court struck down old laws and wrote a decision for the current times.

The Supreme Court agreed that the State govts, not the Fed govt, should enforce and confirm voter registrations because racial discrimination and segregation voting laws were out-of-date and no longer pertinent today. The Supreme Court recognized that for decades, the states were appropriately registering legal citizens to vote and not suppressing same.

As I posted prior, it was a great day for Conservatives and Independents and for all citizens of the USA (the Supreme Court's decision to change the voter's registration laws).

You are correct, LTL, we still must stop the illegal aliens and fraudulent voters.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I disagree. Voting fraud is non-existent, as you say, but I believe there is a danger of going back to the pre-Civil Rights era. We should be putting our efforts into encouraging the vote. IMHO


I certainly don't want to see the return of poll taxes and impossibly long and difficult examinations given, as they were to African-Americans primarily in the South, to people who wanted to register to vote.

I think I said this here recently but will repeat, I am attracted to the idea of voters showing ID to vote while I deplore what happened after 9/11. Before 9/11, Americans were neither required to possess nor produce ID of any kind. I would like to see a return to that policy. Yes, I'm contradicting myself, so no one needs to remind me of that.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> We are not the greatest country on earth because some luddites feel giving something to everyone takes something from them.
> 
> Ideas like this have been known to lead to revolution. People who have been subjugated for too long resort to violence. This doesn't usually turn out well for the luddites. (ref French Revolution. )


Vocabulary level beyond them.
Must define "Luddite" and maybe even "subjugated."


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well Janeway but please do not pretend that you are such a nice person. First of all I never used the RAID can. The RAID can belongs to Patty. I think it is sad that you can't tell the difference between a picture of a can and a real can of bug spray. You do understand the picture cannot harm you don't you? Also, I have seen you attack myself and others before anyone even said something to you so don't play the game that you would be nice but you can't be because other's say mean things to you. Why do you keep coming back for the abuse then? One would think if you are truly hurt you would wisely stay away but you don't. Don't blame others for your nasty behavior. It reminds me of little kids blaming others when the do something stupid and i don't believe you are a child are you? Take responsibility for your own actions. I do truly hope you will be feeling better soon. I can tell the difference between real people and political discussion that can get heated at times and I hope you will too.


Yes, cheeky, I have been ugly to you & others when you were ugly to me. I'm not blaming anyone for my ugly actions--I did stoop to your level.

It is very easy to get you & Bratty confused as you both spew the same garbage. That Raid can was very hurtful, but so was the "spoon" I referred to a lot of times. Why are you assuming I thought the raid would hurt me--see what I'm talking about? You instantly try to put me down & make fun of me. Is this how you get your jollies?

No, I'm not a child, are you as it seems you have not left kindergarten? You and others make critical comments about anything said. You would get a lot more respect with "honey" instead of Vinegar!

I know you are " conanK" who was kicked off KP so how did you get back on KP?

Being nasty to me will only make me not want to listen to any Democratic nonsense especially in elections. As I have said before I have always voted for the person, but not anymore after all of the remarks where you & other Lefties think I'm dumb & stupid. You & others are only overbearing and hateful so none of you have shown me why I should vote for a Democrat!

You act as if voting for the Democrat Party makes a person instantly intelligent! Think about it!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> LTL: the Libs in this thread cannot accept the fact that the Supreme Court, last week, ruled for the times and recognized that the old laws of the Fed govt controlling the states' voting laws were no longer necessary. The Supreme Court struck down old laws and wrote a decision for the current times.
> 
> The Supreme Court agreed that the State govts, not the Fed govt, should enforce and confirm voter registrations because racial discrimination and segregation voting laws were out-of-date and no longer pertinent today. The Supreme Court recognized that for decades, the states were appropriately registering legal citizens to vote and not suppressing same.
> 
> ...


There is no proof that there is voter fraud. The real crime is voter suppression by the GOP. Read Ruth Bader-Ginsburg's dissenting opinion. Gerrymandering and making it difficult for minorities to vote are still two of the primary tricks out of the Karl Rove playbook. You are foolish to believe it doesn't happen, despite the ruling of the partisan Supreme Court. I can't tell if you're blinded by bigotry or just plain ill-informed.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway, almost everyone on the political topics has been insulting and rude at some time or another. I've done it, and I stlii don't understand why it's such an important part of what goes on in the political topics. I know I go ballistic sometimes because peolpe on both sides can be incredibly bone-headed or say things that just get me going. It still isn't the best way to go, and I cannot believe how much time is wasted with all the rude and insulting interludes. HUGE amounts of time are wasted on these absolutely unneccesary diversions..:thumbup: 

Then there's the Who's Been Who Game. Of what possible importance is it if, for example, iCheeky was once ConanK, or if she might once have been thrown off KP? Won't she remain true to her ideals no matter what her username is? Cheeky, Cheeky, wherefore art thou Cheeky? That question is meaningless here as none of us are going to ask it from a balcony in the moonlight. I'd rather go bake a cake.

Look to your own manners, Janeway. Read the post I'm responding to. Is it polite? Did you express yourself like ab adult? Is it right to do something because it is easy to do?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, cheeky, I have been ugly to you & others when you were ugly to me. I'm not blaming anyone for my ugly actions--I did stoop to your level.
> 
> It is very easy to get you & Bratty confused as you both spew the same garbage. That Raid can was very hurtful, but so was the "spoon" I referred to a lot of times. Why are you assuming I thought the raid would hurt me--see what I'm talking about? You instantly try to put me down & make fun of me. Is this how you get your jollies?
> 
> ...


Not true. We are attracted to the Democratic (not Democrat) Party because we agree with the principles and party platform.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder. I get carried away.

Luddite=someone impossibly behind the times and lacking in intellect.

Subjugated= in an inferior position.

OK? Didn't use dictionary.



alcameron said:


> Vocabulary level beyond them.
> Must define "Luddite" and maybe even "subjugated."


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Thanks Huck. You isolate another typical tactic....hit and run. Thumper will come slinking back one day and pretend she doesn't know what we're talking about. I'm ready. How about you?


damemary
So am I dame.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm sorry if we hurt your feelings. It hurts me to think you automatically seem to believe the GOP philosophy. I'll try to do better.


Janeway said:


> Yes, cheeky, I have been ugly to you & others when you were ugly to me. I'm not blaming anyone for my ugly actions--I did stoop to your level.
> 
> It is very easy to get you & Bratty confused as you both spew the same garbage. That Raid can was very hurtful, but so was the "spoon" I referred to a lot of times. Why are you assuming I thought the raid would hurt me--see what I'm talking about?  You instantly try to put me down & make fun of me. Is this how you get your jollies?
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the 10-15% who at any given time have no official ID--and especially the 25% of African-Americans who lack both a driver's license and a state ID card. Just another effort to keep them out of the voting booth.[/quote
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> LTL: the Libs in this thread cannot accept the fact that the Supreme Court, last week, ruled for the times and recognized that the old laws of the Fed govt controlling the states' voting laws were no longer necessary. The Supreme Court struck down old laws and wrote a decision for the current times.
> 
> The Supreme Court agreed that the State govts, not the Fed govt, should enforce and confirm voter registrations because racial discrimination and segregation voting laws were out-of-date and no longer pertinent today. The Supreme Court recognized that for decades, the states were appropriately registering legal citizens to vote and not suppressing same.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
A great day for bigots/racists, a sad day for equality. Don't worry, WE SHALL OVERCOME.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Vocabulary level beyond them.
> Must define "Luddite" and maybe even "subjugated."


alcameron
I so agree. No choking them with such vocabulary.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Vocabulary level beyond them.
> Must define "Luddite" and maybe even "subjugated."


Perhaps damemary could call you and others slow (adj.) persons instead so she wouldn't have to define for you the words that she uses.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> A great day for bigots/racists, a sad day for equality. Don't worry, WE SHALL OVERCOME.


Well, since you are on the side of wanting to keep racists and bigots in control and want the Fed Govt to maintain approval of State's voter registration laws, and have stated your disagreement with the Supreme Court's recent decision to return the voter registration control back to the Southern and individual States which have proven they no longer suppress black voters, you have now identified yourself as a bigot and racist.

I do hope you shall be overcome by somebody.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps damemary could call you and others slow (adj.) persons instead so she wouldn't have to define for you the words that she uses.


Nice try.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, since you are on the side of wanting to keep racists and bigots in control and want the Fed Govt to maintain approval of State's voter registration laws, and have stated your disagreement with the Supreme Court's recent decision to return the voter registration control back to the Southern and individual States which have proven they no longer suppress black voters, you have now identified yourself as a bigot and racist.
> 
> I do hope you shall be overcome by somebody.


Nicer try. Did you read Ruth-Bader Ginsburg's dissenting opinion and list of voter suppression activities? I'm almost certain the asnwer is "no." The Supreme Court ruling, voter suppression practices were still used in the last election.
Nice run-on sentence, BTW.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Let us pass a law and quick that those who start conflict must be the first ones to serve. That will change their tunes. Have any Democrats lately proposed an other War? I always see McCain, Republican and Graham, Republican in the forefront on this issue. I added their political affiliation to inform those who watch here from foreign countries. Clarification has its value.


 :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Just to fix an error


alcameron said:


> Nicer try. Did you read Ruth-Bader Ginsburg's dissenting opinion and list of voter suppression activities? I'm almost certain the asnwer is "no." Despite the Supreme Court ruling, voter suppression practices were still used in the last election.
> Nice run-on sentence, BTW.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps damemary could call you and others slow (adj.) persons instead so she wouldn't have to define for you the words that she uses.


knitpresengifts
keep on posting.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, since you are on the side of wanting to keep racists and bigots in control and want the Fed Govt to maintain approval of State's voter registration laws, and have stated your disagreement with the Supreme Court's recent decision to return the voter registration control back to the Southern and individual States which have proven they no longer suppress black voters, you have now identified yourself as a bigot and racist.
> 
> I do hope you shall be overcome by somebody.


knitpresengifts
go read your Bible but try to skip the juicy parts and go to the kinder, gentler writings.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, there's this:
> 
> http://kenya.usaid.gov/programs/education-and-youth/1497
> 
> The voter ID thing is but one part of a program called Yes Youth Can, the aim of which is to develop peaceful leaders among the Kenyan 18 to 35 set. The overall aim is to build youth-led communities called bunges, which emphasize income-earning activities such poultry raising and tea-growing, environmental conservation, infrastructure rebuilding, sanitation etc etc.


Thanks for the link. I will be interesting to see how the program progresses.

Huckleberry, I'm sure you are reading the post, even though it was posted by Susan.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> children who have no parents have guardians who act as their parents. Any money being spend to keep children healthy is money well spend.


Indoctrination is not healthy, for anyone. This money is not well spent.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Wrong as usual. What is your side doing? Nothing as usual. What you decide is a scandal is laughable. What your party does is disgusting. A bunch of hateful narrow minded folks who can't accept the world is changing. Well tough. Get used to it. People around the world don't understand why the GOP is carrying on in Washington by doing nothing. Obama isn't perfect but he is a lot better than anyone on your side. You can't even name one of your own and say what good they have done for the country. Now that is sad and I pray the God will bless this country in spite of all the hateful people on the right. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


Having a meltdown? You and your ilk are getting worse and worse now that Obama is plummeting in popularity worldwide. Russia and China are turning their noses up at him and are having a good laugh at his expense. Yes, there are news sources reporting news, you really should be reading them.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think requiring voter ID is just another way to suppress the votes of people who would have a lot of difficulty getting the ID. In this country we've been voting for years with no problem with voter fraud. That leads me to believe the whole hue and cry about ID serves to make it more difficult for SOME people to vote.


The flaw in that logic is that the people who you state will have difficulty getting the ID, already have a recognized form of ID. This recognized ID is used by them to get the assistance they need, welfare, food stamps, etc. This ID can be used to register to vote.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Having a meltdown? You and your ilk are getting worse and worse now that Obama is plummeting in popularity worldwide. Russia and China are turning their noses up at him and are having a good laugh at his expense. Yes, there are news sources reporting news, you really should be reading them.


Can you answer her question? What meaningful lesgislation--or anything else--have any prominent repubs or Tea Partiers done for the people of the US?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 wrote 

Agree 100%. I've always considered the voter ID question something of a tempest in a teapot. It's the sad truth that the majority of Americans simply don't trouble themselves to cast a ballot--why on earth do some folks want to place more impediments between our citizens and the polling place? (rhetorical question--I know the answer  )

... Probably every one us has a dozen cards in our wallet that show our name, address, and very possibly a photograph--and certainly all of us have wads of bills from the phone company, Visa, the doctor's office, that are reasonable proof that we are who we say we are. We live far from invisible lives, and polling officials demanding a government ID is just a seemingly silly nuisance that will have far graver consequences.


If you really believe this, then there is no problem with people obtaining the proper ID in order to vote. It throws out the theory that some people have no paperwork at all to prove who they are.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If you really believe this, then there is no problem with people obtaining the proper ID in order to vote. It throws out the theory that some people have no paperwork at all to prove who they are.


If I thought the purpose of the ID drive was to eliminate voter fraud, and if it could be settled with a utility bill or a pay stub I'd have no problem with it.

But to me it seems like the ultimate goal is to keep certain groups away from the polls, and if that's the case the standards of what constitutes sufficient ID are going to be ratcheted up each time these folks comply. From utility bills and library cards to picture IDs, then on to state-issued ID cards and driver's license. How long before we have to show a passport costing hundreds of dollars?

And frankly I don't see why folks who claim to be so concerned about voter fraud don't take on the issue of absentee ballots. There's absolutely no way to know who fills those things out in the end--why doesn't someone make an issue about that instead of focusing on the small percentage of folks who actually manage to make it to the polling place in person? Is it because more Republicans than Democrats vote by mail?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Indoctrination is not healthy, for anyone. This money is not well spent.


soloweygirl
are you for real? Trying to get parents to get Health Insurance is indoctrination? It is more than good sense. But what the X X X, you have insurance and care not about others, not even children. Nice, very nice Christian attitude. Be proud of yourself.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Having a meltdown? You and your ilk are getting worse and worse now that Obama is plummeting in popularity worldwide. Russia and China are turning their noses up at him and are having a good laugh at his expense. Yes, there are news sources reporting news, you really should be reading them.


soloweygirl
your posting shows clearly that you have no clue re. international affairs. Your vocabulary point it out. Keep posting. We and a meltdown? That will be the day.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, since you are on the side of wanting to keep racists and bigots in control and want the Fed Govt to maintain approval of State's voter registration laws, and have stated your disagreement with the Supreme Court's recent decision to return the voter registration control back to the Southern and individual States which have proven they no longer suppress black voters, you have now identified yourself as a bigot and racist.
> 
> I do hope you shall be overcome by somebody.


knitpresentgifts
We ALWAYS overcome.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Indoctrination is not healthy, for anyone. This money is not well spent.


sp;pweygirl
the money could not be spend better, shows us what you know (not).


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The flaw in that logic is that the people who you state will have difficulty getting the ID, already have a recognized form of ID. This recognized ID is used by them to get the assistance they need, welfare, food stamps, etc. This ID can be used to register to vote.


soloweygirl
will you ever get it? Dxxx you are slow.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway
where is your knitting? You told me on page 84 you would show me gauge. Promises, promises.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> are you for real? Trying to get parents to get Health Insurance is indoctrination? It is more than good sense. But what the X X X, you have insurance and care not about others, not even children. Nice, very nice Christian attitude. Be proud of yourself.


It is not the governments job to teach children about health care to pressure their parents to sign up. Reminds me of the children in North Korea all dressed the same, all with bland expressions, reporting their parents if they don't follow the rules.

How dare you accuse me of not caring about others. I am caring about the children and the waste of educational time on indoctrinating them about Obamacare and not learning reading, science or math. Those should be the priorities of the schools. No wonder American kids do not measure up to the rest of the world with their knowledge, spend too much wasted time on non educational issues. But I am not surprised, it is impossible for you to communicate without having to edit your own words. What adult communicates with 'what the XXX' so childish.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what do they have to go through to obtain the card? Obtain a birth certificate? Record of voters registration? Bank statement? Credit card with picture? I bet this all sounds reasonable to you solo. It's not. It is exclusionary (sorry for the big word) to many legal citizens who do not live the way we do. They too deserve a voice....in my opinion.



soloweygirl said:


> susanmos2000 wrote
> 
> Agree 100%. I've always considered the voter ID question something of a tempest in a teapot. It's the sad truth that the majority of Americans simply don't trouble themselves to cast a ballot--why on earth do some folks want to place more impediments between our citizens and the polling place? (rhetorical question--I know the answer  )
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, cheeky, I have been ugly to you & others when you were ugly to me. I'm not blaming anyone for my ugly actions--I did stoop to your level.
> 
> It is very easy to get you & Bratty confused as you both spew the same garbage. That Raid can was very hurtful, but so was the "spoon" I referred to a lot of times. Why are you assuming I thought the raid would hurt me--see what I'm talking about? You instantly try to put me down & make fun of me. Is this how you get your jollies?
> 
> ...


You are such a good little actress, Janie. You are a very nasty person and you only have yourself to blame for that and no you only sank to your own level which is the gutter. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and act like an adult. I will ignore your posts and please ignore mine. Do you think you hurt my feelings with your stupid remarks about my prior user names? Call names all you want Janie. Act like the child that you are. I have just as much right to be here as you do dear no matter what I call myself. I am a member in good standing on KP so live with it. Trying to discuss anything with you is a waste of time as you cannot conduct your self with any civility or maturity. Bless you dear and leave me alone.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Vocabulary level beyond them.
> Must define "Luddite" and maybe even "subjugated."


They are really a sad lot aren't they. The GOP is desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures. They have insulted almost every minority in the country and they want to move the country back to the "good old days" when the "good old boys" got to tell everybody else what to do. Bob Dylan said it so well;

Come gather 'round people 
Wherever you roam 
And admit that the waters 
Around you have grown 
And accept it that soon 
You'll be drenched to the bone 
If your time to you 
Is worth savin' 
Then you better start swimmin' 
Or you'll sink like a stone 
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics 
Who prophesize with your pen 
And keep your eyes wide 
The chance won't come again 
And don't speak too soon 
For the wheel's still in spin 
And there's no tellin' who 
That it's namin' 
For the loser now 
Will be later to win 
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen 
Please heed the call 
Don't stand in the doorway 
Don't block up the hall 
For he that gets hurt 
Will be he who has stalled 
There's a battle outside 
And it is ragin' 
It'll soon shake your windows 
And rattle your walls 
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers 
Throughout the land 
And don't criticize 
What you can't understand 
Your sons and your daughters 
Are beyond your command 
Your old road is 
Rapidly agin' 
Please get out of the new one 
If you can't lend your hand 
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn 
The curse it is cast 
The slow one now 
Will later be fast 
As the present now 
Will later be past 
The order is 
Rapidly fadin' 
And the first one now 
Will later be last 
For the times they are a-changin'.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They are really a sad lot aren't they. The GOP is desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures. They have insulted almost every minority in the country and they want to move the country back to the "good old days" when the "good old boys" got to tell everybody else what to do. Bob Dylan said it so well;
> 
> Come gather 'round people
> Wherever you roam
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> LTL: the Libs in this thread cannot accept the fact that the Supreme Court, last week, ruled for the times and recognized that the old laws of the Fed govt controlling the states' voting laws were no longer necessary. The Supreme Court struck down old laws and wrote a decision for the current times.
> 
> The Supreme Court agreed that the State govts, not the Fed govt, should enforce and confirm voter registrations because racial discrimination and segregation voting laws were out-of-date and no longer pertinent today. The Supreme Court recognized that for decades, the states were appropriately registering legal citizens to vote and not suppressing same.
> 
> ...


Your viewpoint is so very limited. What brand of blinders do you wear?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Your viewpoint is so very limited. What brand of blinders do you wear?


peacegoddess
excellent question. I think those must be from Dinosaurs. If trailing fraudulent voters would become an official job, we possibly would create ONE for the whole country. Voter fraud has never been a problem, complacency however has been but we will change that. We will increase the numbers of voters, the young are learning quickly.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A poet like Bob Dylan says it best. "

The times they are a changing."


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They are really a sad lot aren't they. The GOP is desperate and desperate times call for desperate measures. They have insulted almost every minority in the country and they want to move the country back to the "good old days" when the "good old boys" got to tell everybody else what to do. Bob Dylan said it so well;
> 
> Come gather 'round people
> Wherever you roam
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
Thank you very much. So much truth in it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You know how fond they are of Prada.



peacegoddess said:


> Your viewpoint is so very limited. What brand of blinders do you wear?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are such a good little actress, Janie. You are a very nasty person and you only have yourself to blame for that and no you only sank to your own level which is the gutter. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and act like an adult. I will ignore your posts and please ignore mine. Do you think you hurt my feelings with your stupid remarks about my prior user names? Call names all you want Janie. Act like the child that you are. I have just as much right to be here as you do dear no matter what I call myself. I am a member in good standing on KP so live with it. Trying to discuss anything with you is a waste of time as you cannot conduct your self with any civility or maturity. Bless you dear and leave me alone.


Cheeky Blighter
"good little actress is right". I think we should learn some acting from her and some of her friends. I noticed that in Ravelry some fool is accusing one member of being someone different. Perhaps we all should take on 2nd and 3rd personalities and begin acting as we were any one of them. Why not satisfy this so very strange need for the nuts to assign other names to people. Holy smoke they are weird. Are they in rubber rooms?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> You know how fond they are of Prada.


damemary
For them to wear Prada is an insult to the Pope.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, I just had a nice break with Bobbie, and feel much better for it. Good old Dylan. He used to go by the name of "Blind Boy Grunt" sometimes to record a few songs other than on Columbia without breaking his contract, and sometimes would turn up in coffeehouses after a gig to hang out and jam... I wonder how old Grunt's doin' these days.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> For them to wear Prada is an insult to the Pope.


I doubt the Pope cares less about our cyber closet. But he does love his two Harley motorcycles.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I doubt the Pope cares less about our cyber closet. But he does love his two Harley motorcycles.


I get it and you don't.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> are you for real? Trying to get parents to get Health Insurance is indoctrination? It is more than good sense. But what the X X X, you have insurance and care not about others, not even children. Nice, very nice Christian attitude. Be proud of yourself.


Using the children is indoctrination. The children don't understand the healthcare issue. They will just be repeating what they hear from their teachers, and that will be one sided. So, yes it is indoctrination at its finest. Let the adults decide what is best for them and their families.

You know nothing about me so stop your stupid rants.

Just for the record, I am not a Christian, nor do I play one on KP.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Using the children is indoctrination. The children don't understand the healthcare issue. They will just be repeating what they hear from their teachers, and that will be one sided. So, yes it is indoctrination at its finest. Let the adults decide what is best for them and their families.
> 
> You know nothing about me so stop your stupid rants.
> 
> Just for the record, I am not a Christian, nor do I play one on KP.


soloweygirl
I apologize for assuming that you are a Christian. Hearing that makes me feel better since there is no hypocracy there. Huck


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nice try.


I know this was not meant for me but wanted to reply to your Democrat/Democratic reply.

As I have stated in the past, my past education is lost so therefore, my word usage is not good at best. Please cut me to the bone for my beliefs if you must but not my grammar usage.

After the cardiac arrest, I could not talk with any sense, could not walk without a walker, had ocular migraines, kidney failure, double pneumonia, liver malfunction, and was weak as a kitten as the saying goes.

After a year of speech therapy, physical therapy, cardiac rehab., vision therapy, I'm left with a 5th grade level of reading and writing from the testing that was done. Yes, my highest level of education is a ME in Higher Education, none of it is with me anymore.

I do not have the ability to add nor subtract numbers much less remember how to multiply in my head as it does not work anymore.

I do get confused with knit/crochet patterns, but have a wonderful knit shop where they help me even though I don't buy yarn from them as they know it helps me keep busy.

I won't reply to this site anymore as cannot stand the put downs any longer.

I have had a horrible cold for over 2 weeks so it has gone into the lungs, but I've already has a round of antibiotics so if body won't start healing itself then I'm headed to the hospital. Since I need new lungs, this could be the end for me so I don't want my end to be with angry words.

Each day for me is a joy given from God/Jesus but I feel I'm ready for my maker when the time comes. My loved ones are waiting for me to join them.

I wish all of you happiness and peace among your fellow man! Jane


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I know this was not meant for me but wanted to reply to your Democrat/Democratic reply.
> 
> As I have stated in the past, my past education is lost so therefore, my word usage is not good at best. Please cut me to the bone for my beliefs if you must but not my grammar usage.
> 
> ...


Janeway
I am sorry about your poor health. That however is no excuse for your nastiness. Too bad you seem to have lost your good qualities but not the others. Now you claim to have problems with knitting but as fast as a bolt of lightening you jumped in to criticize my knitting and offered to teach me gauge. My knitted item fits perfectly and your claim to have problems with numbers seems to be a farce or did you just have such a tremendous need to be nasty on page 84?
Whatever it is, I still wish you good Health.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I know this was not meant for me but wanted to reply to your Democrat/Democratic reply.
> 
> As I have stated in the past, my past education is lost so therefore, my word usage is not good at best. Please cut me to the bone for my beliefs if you must but not my grammar usage.
> 
> ...


Jane:the reason I changed Democrat to Democratic is because that's the way some Republican leaders say it intentionally as kind of a put-down I thought you were doing the same thing. I shouldn't have assumed that you did it on purpose. I get a little touchy sometimes---I think we all do. Anyway, I did not mean to make fun of your health problems. Heaven knows, I understand health problems quite well! We just have to get along the best we can and try to stay in shape.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S.
Jane, I think your writing level is above that of a 5th grader.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> I am sorry about your poor health. That however is no excuse for your nastiness. Too bad you seem to have lost your good qualities but not the others. Now you claim to have problems with knitting but as fast as a bolt of lightening you jumped in to criticize my knitting and offered to teach me gauge. My knitted item fits perfectly and your claim to have problems with numbers seems to be a farce or did you just have such a tremendous need to be nasty on page 84?
> Whatever it is, I still wish you good Health.


Just reread page 84. Jane may have been snippy, but she was not the nastiest on that page.

You just heard she was terribly ill, yet you felt a need to drag up a 4 day post and 13 pages ago to get your digs in? I am sorry, but your response was immature and unnecessary in my opinion. Could you not have just wished her well?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Just reread page 84. Jane may have been snippy, but she was not the nastiest on that page.
> 
> You just heard she was terribly ill, yet you felt a need to drag up a 4 day post and 13 pages ago to get your digs in? I am sorry, but your response was immature and unnecessary in my opinion. Could you not have just wished her well?


lovehelake
I wished her well and always will. I asked her numerous times to deliver what she promised instead she ignored it. She used plenty of energy and time to post about other things. What we say and do has consequences. I live with my response. What she posted pages ago and today is contradiction. I kept her promise alive (did not drag up) and she opted not to respond so here we are. I have ZERO tolerance for Bullies and she bullied.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, lovely ladies, my knitting is calling me as it is very interesting and for a good cause. None of the lefties (except Alcameron) has shown anything they make for charity or a cancer center. Such a shame as all most do is flap the lip!
> 
> Good night!


Janeway, Sorry you are ill.

Now, why is it of importance whether someone posts pictures of their knitted donations? Not everyone toots their horn verbally or pictorially.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Janeway, Sorry you are ill.
> 
> Now, why is it of importance whether someone posts pictures of their knitted donations? Not everyone toots their horn verbally or pictorially.


peacegoddess
you are so right. Some people here knit for charity exclusively and you never hear about it. I knit a lot but no, I am not one of those.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

to whoever mentioned the Park where I live, these flowers are everywhere in it and just opened to the delight of the Bees. Lovely surroundings I reside in. Beautiful job the immigrant gardeners are doing to produce such luscious Flora. Should see the blooming Cacti.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

If it was weeks ago it may have been me. At that time it had to do with tulips vs poppies. Those in your present avatar look like perennial hibiscus and are lovely. I have white ones blooming in my garden now. I also have a cactus (yellow flowers) which is pretty and also edible.


Huckleberry said:


> to whoever mentioned the Park where I live, these flowers are everywhere in it and just opened to the delight of the Bees. Lovely surroundings I reside in. Beautiful job the immigrant gardeners are doing to produce such luscious Flora. Should see the blooming Cacti.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> If it was weeks ago it may have been me. At that time it had to do with tulips vs poppies. Those in your present avatar look like perennial hibiscus and are lovely. I have white ones blooming in my garden now. I also have a cactus (yellow flowers) which is pretty and also edible.


RUKnitting
tulips vs. poppies was someone-else, not me, that was a nice exchange as I remember. The one I am referring to was very nasty. Some always nasty creature stated that I must be living in a Park (homeless was the reference), etc. etc. etc. Actually our property is parklike and has been in a national magazine. One of us is a Master Gardener, it isn't me. 
You are right these are perennial hibiscus we have them all around the property and blossoms of white, pink and purple may be on the same bush. We too have the yellow blooming Cactus with a red center. Oh boy, don't touch those plants, you suffer punishment for days. I have served the Cactus as eatable adornment to dessert - a lot of work to get the stingers off and not get stuck.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

How do you prepare them for ice cream? I use them as a veg or condiment. Always open to new ideas.


Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> tulips vs. poppies was someone-else, not me, that was a nice exchange as I remember. The one I am referring to was very nasty. Some always nasty creature stated that I must be living in a Park (homeless was the reference), etc. etc. etc. Actually our property is parklike and has been in a national magazine. One of us is a Master Gardener, it isn't me.
> You are right these are perennial hibiscus we have them all around the property and blossoms of white, pink and purple may be on the same bush. We too have the yellow blooming Cactus with a red center. Oh boy, don't touch those plants, you suffer punishment for days. I have served the Cactus as eatable adornment to dessert - a lot of work to get the stingers off and not get stuck.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> How do you prepare them for ice cream? I use them as a veg or condiment. Always open to new ideas.


RUKnitting
I VERY carefully remove the stingers by holding the piece with two knitting needles poked into them so that they do not turn on me and scrape the stingers off.
I serve them on Puddings and cold Soups. Usually slice them horizontally so that they are not so heavy and sink. Sometimes I use craft scissors to make them look fancy. I have also used them as place card holders, made Napkin holders from them by poking a hole in them and pulling a pretty ribbon through. Nice conversation pieces. Do you have a simpler way to remove the stingers?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I hold them down while wearing my rose bush trimming gloves and scrape the stingers off with a knife held at an angle. Also slice them on the diagonal in thin strips. They would make nice place holders not sure about napkin holders unless cooked I wouldn't have confidence that I got all the stingers out.


Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> I VERY carefully remove the stingers by holding the piece with two knitting needles poked into them so that they do not turn on me and scrape the stingers off.
> I serve them on Puddings and cold Soups. Usually slice them horizontally so that they are not so heavy and sink. Sometimes I use craft scissors to make them look fancy. I have also used them as place card holders, made Napkin holders from them by poking a hole in them and pulling a pretty ribbon through. Nice conversation pieces. Do you have a simpler way to remove the stingers?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I hold them down while wearing my rose bush trimming gloves and scrape the stingers off with a knife held at an angle. Also slice them on the diagonal in thin strips. They would make nice place holders not sure about napkin holders unless cooked I wouldn't have confidence that I got all the stingers out.


RUKnitting
I might try and burn off the stingers with a candle, see how that would work. I will let you know. We had a Pup who liked to chew on the Cactus Plants. Never seemed to suffer.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Interesting idea. Let me know how it turns out.


Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> I might try and burn off the stingers with a candle, see how that would work. I will let you know. We had a Pup who liked to chew on the Cactus Plants. Never seemed to suffer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovehelake
> I wished her well and always will. I asked her numerous times to deliver what she promised instead she ignored it. She used plenty of energy and time to post about other things. What we say and do has consequences. I live with my response. What she posted pages ago and today is contradiction. I kept her promise alive (did not drag up) and she opted not to respond so here we are. I have ZERO tolerance for Bullies and she bullied.


Again she is almost to the point of being put in a hospital and is on oxygen 24/7 and you harp on trivial gauge comment alive just to keep her promise 'alive'. You continual badgering her in my opinion is an evil form of bullying. If sitting in a chair, breathing oxygen and posting gives her comfort just ignore her. That would be the kind thing to do instead of spouting righteous indignation just to upset her. But that is only my opinion and what I would do to be kind.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Begging your pardon, but why wouldn't it be better for someone in such poor health to spend time on Denim & Pearls rather than in a political discussion here?



lovethelake said:


> Again she is almost to the point of being put in a hospital and is on oxygen 24/7 and you harp on trivial gauge comment alive just to keep her promise 'alive'. You continual badgering her in my opinion is an evil form of bullying. If sitting in a chair, breathing oxygen and posting gives her comfort just ignore her. That would be the kind thing to do instead of spouting righteous indignation just to upset her. But that is only my opinion and what I would do to be kind.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> "good little actress is right". I think we should learn some acting from her and some of her friends. I noticed that in Ravelry some fool is accusing one member of being someone different. Perhaps we all should take on 2nd and 3rd personalities and begin acting as we were any one of them. Why not satisfy this so very strange need for the nuts to assign other names to people. Holy smoke they are weird. Are they in rubber rooms?


Yes, Huck, I have been informed about that. What a stupid ass she is. Harassing the wrong person. But then again, when is she ever right? I feel so sorry for the person that she is harassing, but find it funny that she would try and go after me over there.
As I have stated, I do not belong to any forum or group over on Ravelry, except for a local knitting group.
Boy, are you sick, Cherf. Sending private messages over there. too, to the wrong person. So pathetic. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> you are so right. Some people here knit for charity exclusively and you never hear about it. I knit a lot but no, I am not one of those.


Nor am I. 
Also if someone is so sick and this thread makes her blood pressure rise, then why post so negaatively in it? What goes around comes around, Janie.


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