# what electronic machine to buy? passap, brother, knitmaster?



## zoltanalmodo

Hi,

i am a young designer new to knitting and would like to know more about (buy) electronic knitting machines.

i would like to make sweaters and the machine has to be able to work from a computer.

i read and watched quite a lot of info / videos about different machines and software. and narrowed down the search to 3 manufacturers and few models. 
---------------------
Passap E6000 (4 auto colour changer)
---------------------
Brother KH 970 (in particular with 6 colour changer)
(or Brother KH- 930 / 940 / 950 / 950i / 965 / 965i / 970 (4 colour changer))
---------------------
Knitmaster 580 electronic / Silver reed SK 840 (4 colour changer)
---------------------

i would like to compare the 3 make and 3 model. i have not really seen any comparison and do not know what machine does what better or is there any main difference in quality or ease of use?

i thought i would buy Brother KH-970 than i discovered Passap E6000 and later on Knitmaster 580 electronic / Silver reed SK 840. and now i am just confused.... can't really decide which one to go for?

also they seems to be in different price ranges...

if anyone has an experience with any of the machines please let me know what do you like about that machine and if you have 2 or 3 of the above mentioned than even better you could help us to compare...

what would be the best buy?

thank you
zoltan


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## Bod

Welcome, and good luck in your quest. I have a Brother 920 and love it. Unfortunately Brother isn't made anymore.


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## OddBodkin

Welcome to the forum! I'm not a machine knitter, but I'm looking forward to seeing your projects when you get going. 

I'm sure there will be machine knitters along soon to help you out.

Enjoy the forum!


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## GrandmaNona

Hello from Oklahoma, USA, and welcome to KP. I can not help you with your questions as I am a hand knitter (HK). There is a large group of machine knitters (MK) here, so hopefully they will be able to help.


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## chickkie

Welcome. My favorite is the DM80 Passap


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## ilmacheryl

Welcome from Kansas! Hand knitter & spinner here.


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## zoltanalmodo

hello everyone! thank you for the warm welcome.

and thank you for your help as well (even if you do not have any of these machines... it feels good.)

zoltan


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## WVMaryBeth

Welcome from the West Virginia mountains. Good luck with your search.


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## zoltanalmodo

chickkie said:


> Welcome. My favorite is the DM80 Passap


hi thanks for writing...
yes the Passap duo 80 was another machine i was interested in but it does not works with computers (cannot be controlled or run with a motor i guess... or is it?) ( i would like to get something computer controlled... you see i am a men and think that if i have a cable than i can just design the graphics + shape load the program, hit the button and the machine does the rest... (i am beginning to suspect that it is not so easy like that...)

it would be nice to know what are the differences between the E6000 and the duo 80 (or duomatic) they say it is a very nice machine to own and work with.

my situation is that i cannot knit (just have a clear idea about what i want to make but no understanding how to knit pattern and shapes and attach the pieces together not to mention knitting methods + of course have no machine at all and would like to starts somewhere preferably with an electronic machine + motor and my idea is that i would leave the machine to do the various parts of the sweater...)

here n the UK there is not a large price difference between the duo 80 and the E6000 (which is strange to me) it seems that people still like the duo 80 a lot.

can you tell alittle bit more about your experience?

zoltan


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## Huckleberry

zoltanalmodo said:


> Hi,
> 
> i am a young designer new to knitting and would like to know more about (buy) electronic knitting machines.
> 
> i would like to make sweaters and the machine has to be able to work from a computer.
> 
> i read and watched quite a lot of info / videos about different machines and software. and narrowed down the search to 3 manufacturers and few models.
> ---------------------
> Passap E6000 (4 auto colour changer)
> ---------------------
> Brother KH 970 (in particular with 6 colour changer)
> (or Brother KH- 930 / 940 / 950 / 950i / 965 / 965i / 970 (4 colour changer))
> ---------------------
> Knitmaster 580 electronic / Silver reed SK 840 (4 colour changer)
> ---------------------
> 
> i would like to compare the 3 make and 3 model. i have not really seen any comparison and do not know what machine does what better or is there any main difference in quality or ease of use?
> 
> i thought i would buy Brother KH-970 than i discovered Passap E6000 and later on Knitmaster 580 electronic / Silver reed SK 840. and now i am just confused.... can't really decide which one to go for?
> 
> also they seems to be in different price ranges...
> 
> if anyone has an experience with any of the machines please let me know what do you like about that machine and if you have 2 or 3 of the above mentioned than even better you could help us to compare...
> 
> what would be the best buy?
> 
> thank you
> zoltan


zoltanalmodo
to a designer I recommend a Passap. I have others as well and they are fine for many things but the Passap tops them all. Even the simplest item made on it looks professional.


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## marilyngf

welcome to the group


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## DHobbit

Howdy!


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## MEN-k2-

*Welcome to KP*, from the Wheat fields of Kansas, USA. 

Sorry... can not help, I'm just a hand knitter.


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## zoltanalmodo

thank you.

do you have work on a Passap E6000?
yes i had a feeling that Passap E6000 will do that.

why are the Brother machines so popular than? and why they cost much more? is there any technique only the Brother machines do? (except the 6 colour changer on KH970...)

also does the E6000 works well with DAK 7? 8? or do i need to use their (Passap's own software?)
what is the difference?

i am new to knitting and would like to get a machine which does the job almost by itself (after planned and set up)
something i could leave alone till it's ready. will the computer be able to control the work (engine + colours + different knitting types/methods and the changes between these methods + sizing = increase and decrease of pattern shape)?

thank you.


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## Neeterbug

Welcome from sunny and beautiful Arizona (USA). Wish I could help you but don't know anything about knitting machines.


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## Nilzavg

Hello and welcome from the NW, USA. I do not machine knit, but wanted to welcome you.


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## tatsfieldknitter

Hi, and welcome from Surrey (almost a neighbour!!) not into machine knitting so can't help, but look forward to hearing all about your progress once you get going.


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## zoltanalmodo

thanks a lot everyone!

z


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## MaryAnneCutler

Silver-Reed is the only Brand addressing electronic design work being manufactured for domestic use. The other brands ceased production 20 or so years ago.

There are industrial machines, but I would think you would need to learn how to design before you invest in one of those. In the $20,000 range or more for a pre-owned one. They would be motorized.

Personally, I have always liked the Silver products.


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## grandmann

Welcome from WI


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## GrandmaLiz

zoltanalmodo said:


> thank you.
> 
> do you have work on a Passap E6000?
> yes i had a feeling that Passap E6000 will do that.
> 
> why are the Brother machines so popular than? and why they cost much more? is there any technique only the Brother machines do? (except the 6 colour changer on KH970...)
> 
> also does the E6000 works well with DAK 7? 8? or do i need to use their (Passap's own software?)
> what is the difference?
> 
> i am new to knitting and would like to get a machine which does the job almost by itself (after planned and set up)
> something i could leave alone till it's ready. will the computer be able to control the work (engine + colours + different knitting types/methods and the changes between these methods + sizing = increase and decrease of pattern shape)?
> 
> thank you.


It really does depend on exactly what sort of things you want to design and what weight of yarn you intend to use. The Passap is highly regarded but is more limited in terms of the weight/count/thickness of yarn (often 3 ply is recommended). Brother machines tend to be less expensive and the spares are relatively easy to obtain. If you want to use thicker yarn you need to consider a chunky machine. Brother made the 270 which is electronic. There is also the 260 but that is a punchcard model. Another thing to think about is garter stitch patterns. Brother made Garter Carriages (GC) for their standard guage machines which knit rib stitches and plain/purl in one row.

If you read alot of posts on here you will see that many of us have several machines (it's a very addictive craft) - I have Brother chunky 260, standard 950i electronic, Brother 890 punchcard, Passap e6000 and a Toyota 901 (all with ribbers which, apart from the Passap which is 'integral', are 'additional extras'). All of the machines have different attributes, positives/negatives. (I also have a couple of other machines waiting to be refurbished which I will sell when they are cleaned etc. - I'm running out of space.) Finally, do you want to use a motor? (It speeds up production and would leave you free to multi-task.) Confusing isn't it?

The best advice IMHO is to find someone who has several different machines and who is willing to let you try them out to see which meets your needs most. I suspect you will find that you need more than one machine.


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## susanjoy

To add a bit to what has already been said. The Duo 80 is a punchcard machine with a pattern repeat of up to 40 stitches (depending on the pattern punched out on the card). You can fit a motor, if you can find one, and it will knit straight rows for you. There is not a domestic machine that will do shaping automatically.
The Guild of Machine Knitters website has clubs listed. Perhaps there is one near you where you could see the different machines in action.


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## Angela c

I have a brother punch card and some of my friends have a knitmaster/ silvereed and when they have watched me use mine they have said how much simpler mine seems to there's.
Hope this helps you


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## ichneumon

I have the brother 950i, which I love, you can get them on eBay from time to time.What I like about them is, the all over patterning across all needles,and if you decide to get designaknit software you can design on the computer, and interact with the computer and knitting machine.


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## susieknitter

Welcome to the group.
I had a Passap E6000 and hated it I sold it to someone that works for the following designer.....
http://www.markfast.net/

I have had/still have many different punch card and electronic machines but my favorite is the Brother KH970 quickly followed by the Brother KH965.

Whatever machine you have you will still have to learn about the different yarns and how these yarns knit up, plus all the different techniques that are needed to start and finish a garment.
I don't want to burst your bubble but there is an awful lot to learn before you ever think of switching a machine or computer on. But I guess you have realized this already.
Sue.


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## KarlaHW

I think the Brother machines are so popular, because they are good quality, spare parts still available and relatively easy to learn.There are plenty available and therefore the price reasonable.
I think Brother are the only machines that can use garter carriage and do a real garter stitch.

I have no experience with Passap, but I have two Passap machines waiting to be set up. 
Also no experience with Silver Reed.

The idea of using a computer with the machines is logical. 
But none will knit all by itself. Even if you have a motor attached, you still have to increase and decrease manually. Depending how much money you can or want to invest there are several computer programs available to do shaping or a stitch pattern.
If you never used a knitting machine before I would start with a good electronic one, Brother 930 and up. Get used to it, knit some pieces from a pattern book, then design your own stitch patterns and shapes.
There is a motor that fits Brother, also another motor for Passap DM80.
But you cannot set it up, walk away and a finished piece will appear.
Machine knitting is very addictive.


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## skitt53

Welcome! The world of machine-knitting is all very confusing, and you really almost need to try out the different brands before you can make a choice. There's a very good website that has tons of information about the different brands, what they do, and what accessories are available for them, as well as what you can expect to pay. It's here: http://www.aboutknittingmachines.com/

I have been a handknitter for many years before getting into machine knitting, and I do think that makes it much easier to understand what the machine needs to do, but there are many machine knitters who have never held a knitting needle.
I've bought, and knitted on, several different brands now and finally decided I like the Studio/Singer/Silver Reed machines best, but it's all a matter of taste and what you plan to do with the machine. Happy hunting! Even the search itself is fun.


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## jeffgillies

It sounds like you might also want to take a look at the Passap E8000. It is the next model up from the E6000, is a smaller guage (it uses smaller yarns and makes smaller,finer stitches) and is geared more towards design and production work. It comes with a very thick binder/user manual and the motor that runs it is so strong the machine's stand must be bolted to the floor.

It is a more advanced knitting machine than the other Passap machines most of us KP machine knitters are familiar with, and I believe it's still being produced. If it isn't, you'll still find ones for sale that are still considered new stock (not previously bought or used). Be prepared for a fairly hefty price tag.

Also, search youtube for each of the machines you are interested in. There are many videos of them being used by countless different users which will give you an idea of what machine knitting will require of you. There are also some videos that just show a couple of these machines doing nothing but knitting out fabric using their motor drives (an optional add-on piece of equipment that will run the machine for you). I found them very helpful when I was looking to buy a machine because they gave me an idea of how the different models ran, how fast they could knit, how noisy or quiet they were.


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## berlauk

Welcome! I have just started back into machine knitting after 30 years. Feel like a newbie. But, 30 years ago I had 3 machines, a Passap Duo80 w/motor, a Brother 950(?-I think)), and Brother 260 (bulky), I used to teach classes on the Duo80, Depending on your focus in designing, both machines have their strengths. If you're looking to design fabric patterns, Brother has a lot of versatility. Now, if you're into creating interesting textures, Passap has historically been the machine of choice (although the E6000 was not out when I was using my machines) as it's a true double bed. Brother also has the garter carriage as an added plus. They both do many of the same things very well and I used all my machines equally. This is just my humble opinion and others may disagree, but in the end, you'll be able to do wonderful things on whatever machine you choose!


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## quill-ws

Hello, Brother, Passap, no longer make Knitting Machines unfortunately. I have used several makes & models since the 1980`s. Silver Reed are the only well known Knitting Machine Makers now, I have an Electronic S.K. 840, it has an Electronic box with a small screen, which is purchased as an extra, very expensive, but able to see several rows of the your pattern as a series of small Black squares, you are able to check the pattern before using it. It is capable of a 60 Stitch Width, ( and this may be Doubled in Width and Length ). There is also the KR 21 which is an Electronic Device for programming and uses Plastic Sheets to slot into it. There are Gauge Rulers to match your Tension, this is also an Extra Accessory. S.R. make very good K.M`s, I am very pleased with mine, & their Manuals I have are very well written, unlike some other makes. I bought a Passap Duo S the last model they made, there are spare needles being made in Japan since Passap stopped making these wonderful K.M`s, I love mine it makes lovely English Rib, & Half English Rib, also known as Fisherman`s Rib. It is possible to find some Secondhand parts & accessories at Machine Knitting Shows & Dealers & listed in Machine Knitting Monthly, in the U.K. & elsewhere. Passap K.M`s have Metal Retaining Bars, which are a very good idea. Good Luck. Please let us know what machine you buy & update us on your work, we love looking at designs on this Forum. From, Susan, Hertfordshire, U.K.


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## rainbirdoz

Hi Zoltan! I started machine knitting in 1957 with a manual double-bed machine, very basic but knitted beautiful ribs. Then I saw the new Japanese machines which had push-button pattern selection and had one of those. I have owned both Brother and Silver electronics and seen these progress into the latest versions which are excellent. However, in my opinion, my favourite machine is the Passap E6000 because of its ability to knit beautiful double-jacquard fabrics, giving you the opportunitity to knit very large patterns without floats, and without using heavy weights. You can knit beautiful ribbed skirts to go with your sweaters and superb tucked fabrics. It is a very versatile machine, and is the closest to the true commercial machines with patterning possible on both beds.
You can do these things on the Japanese electronic machines too but with double-bed work you must always use heavy weights and it is just not so easy. However, there are things which the Japanese machines excell like knitted lace and knit-woven fabrics.
So, it is a case of looking at the type of knitting you want to specialise in and making your decision. See if you can have a demonstration of the machines before you buy. It will be difficult to find a dealer selling the Passap E6000 as they are no longer made, but anyone selling a machine should be able to demonstrate it to you -how it works and that it all functions OK. 
The Silver Reed machines are the only Japanese machines in production today so if you want to want a new machine then they have to be your choice. Good luck in your career.
Sheila


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## quill-ws

Berlauk, like me you have used various makes over the years, my Knitting Club has Brother K.M`s, & someone brought a Garter Carriage to one of our sessions & demonstrated this wonderful gadget. Unfortunately as you probably know, there are only Secondhand ones on the market now, ( unless some are still new in their boxes, never been used that owners are willing to sell), even this is rare, I expect, spares & repairs are hard to find, which is such a waste. Brother please start making K. M`s again, there are a lot more Knitters now, & there are potential M.K`s out there among them, because of the Guild of Machine Knitters who demonstrate at most of the Craft Fairs, & this Knitting Forum is encouraging more knitters to try Machine Knitting. Some of our K.M. Club members also Hand Knit, do Beading, Patchwork, & other crafts in their spare time. I use Crochet to enhance some of my M. K. From, Susan, U.K.


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## albaguti

Hello,

First of all let me introduce myself: I'm Alba, from Spain, but currently living in Switzerland. 

I do own a passap dm 80, and I love it. I just have it from last Summer and Ive already been able to make some pullovers, hats, scarfs,... 

As you, I had also been thinking to upgrade to an electronic KM. After researching, I think I will go for the passap E6000 (I don't know if you know it also exists the E8000, but it is pretty expensive..)

My decision arises on the fact that Passap models are much more versatile than other brands ( they can handle a huge range of yarns, while with other brands you have to buy several machines) also, they are quite resistant. 

Nevertheless, you should take in account, just Silver Reed is still producing machines, for the other brands will have to buy second hand and cross the fingers. 

About the possibility of plugging the machine and go take a rest... i guess it does not work like that...  machine knitting has a steep learning curve!

Hope it was helpful, 

Alba


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## rainbirdoz

zoltanalmodo said:


> hi thanks for writing...
> yes the Passap duo 80 was another machine i was interested in but it does not works with computers (cannot be controlled or run with a motor i guess... or is it?) ( i would like to get something computer controlled... you see i am a men and think that if i have a cable than i can just design the graphics + shape load the program, hit the button and the machine does the rest... (i am beginning to suspect that it is not so easy like
> 
> my situation is that i cannot knit (just have a clear idea about what i want to make but no understanding how to knit pattern and shapes and attach the pieces together not to mention knitting methods + of course have no machine at all and would like to starts somewhere preferably with an electronic machine + motor and my idea is that i would leave the machine to do the various parts of the sweater
> 
> zoltan


No, sorry Zoltan, it isn't at all like that unless you can afford lots of money for something like the industrial Dubeid machines which I believe can shape a garment themselves.

There are two ways to knit a garment, you can sit at the machine and shape it by hand as you go, or you can knit straight fabric, or garment blanks (pieces the size of each garment piece) and then you can cut out the garment shape and sew them together, usually on a sewing machine of some sort. Either way you are going to have a big learning curve. Another alternative is to find someone who will knit for you - you do the designing and they do the actual knitting. It would probably help you if you enrolled in a technical college that offers a course in knitwear.

As to the difference between the Duomatic 80 and the E6000, they are very similar except that on the Dm80 the patterning is by pun hard and is limited to 40 stitch repeats and the E6000 is computer controlled and can pattern each of the needles on the front bed individually, over the whole width of the bed which makes it much more versatile. Also, of course, the E6000 will interface with a computer. I use DesignaKnit and that works well with the E6000. As a designer, are you a graphics designer or have you done a course in garment design? If you haven't done garment design, then DesignaKnit will help you with that too as it has built-in standard garment shapes which you can use for your sweaters.
Sheila


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## Jokruger

Welcome. i have 2 E6000, 1 DM80, and one Knitmaster SK600/700. Depending on what you want to make, and where you live will determine which machine to buy. Passaps were originally designed to knit with 3 ply on both beds (which makes a thick fabric). You could use 4 ply for single bed knitting. Should you buy a E6000 make sure of its download capacity (from a computer). You need the 32K version as the older versions 8K is not downloadable. Upgrading these machines costs ann arm and a leg. I use DAK 7 and downloads easy to the Passap. For 4 coloured jacquard patterns you would also need the auto colour (not just the 4 colour changer). However when I do lace, the knitmaster is very good (in my opinion.


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## laceandbits

One thing that might affect your decision is what sort of two colour knitting you might want to do in the future (if at all!). The Passap machines only do a jacquard two colour, which catches the colours so there are no floats on the back but you don't get the solid colours on the front in quite the same way. 

If you want to be able to do 'proper' Fairisle, or intarsia (picture) knitting, you need one of the other makes. 

Another consideration is that the front bed drops further away or can be removed completely on the not-Passap machines, enabling you to use the main bed for single bed slip and tuck stitch patterns, lace, weaving and other textured work which would be difficult, if not impossible on the narrow gap between beds on the Passap.

You do realise that even if you have a motor as well, you still need to do all the decreases etc by hand. I'm sure you do after all the research you've done, but I was helping a student do knitting for her end of year show and she was quite surprised that she actually had to sit at the machine with her foot on a pedal, and manually work shapings. She thought a home electronic machine would do everything for her: set it up and come back to find the sleeve knitted for you. I wish


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## Madassie

Hello,
I am a Dutch machineknitter for just a few months so take my words for what it is worth. I have little experience.
The first machine I bought was the Passap E 6000 but when I was diving into the MK pool everyone advised me to buy a Brother to start with because the Passap is the best buy, but has a very tough learning curve. A Brother seems to be more user friendly and forgiving. A point of importance to me was also that you find tons of information on the web about how to work with the Brother. Also all the patternbooks are free downloads on the internet and for Passap you have to pay. So I bought a Brother 260 because it is easier to start with the big needles in terms of handmanipulating stitches. Now I am starting to work on the 940, and the Passap will have to wait untill I am more experienced. 
As far as I know you will have to do a lot of handwork yourself, in spite of the computer: casting on the stitches, increasing and decreasing, bind off. The motor device you can buy for the machines only moves the knitting carriage to the left and the right, nothing more. So you really have to learn machineknitting! But I also know that there are a few people with websites and movies on the internet who ripped out all the electronics of the machine and build there own Arduino system so maybe there are possibillities I am not aware of.


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## Radiputz

Hello i think as a professinal you forgot one model: Brother Ck35 witha automatic (970 partial automatic) 6 colr changer.
Brother ist the one with the KG a motorized single color carrige

But please check also the older Brother with the AYAB Board a modificatet Brother 910 to 940, CK35 is in modification a will be availible hopefully this year.


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## pink paper clip

Me too welcome


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## Linuxgirl

Welcome to the forum from Germany.
You've gotten already good advice. I'll just add a simplyfication. 
The Passap E6000 is considered the Mercedes of knitting machines and can do pretty much anything a domestic machine knitter wants. The downside is, it's rather expensive and you need to learn a lot to make it do what you want to do. Also the doublebed is can not be lowered very far, so you won't see your design directly and picking up dropped stitches is very difficult.

The other electronic machines are more limited in their abilities (though some not by much), but are also a bit easier to learn. Also the doublebed can be lowered pretty far, so picking up stitches is much easier.


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## annazygowski

If you want to design and let the machine do the work, you should look into industrial knitting machines.
Shima seiki and stoll make motorized machines from 2g (bulky) to 18g ( extremely fine). You program them via cad software. Both companies have training schools for the software but also a lot of universities in London, and New York have night classes where you can learn the cad software. 
Quite a few knitwear designers rent time on factory floors and bring in their yarns and a USB stick rather than buy a machine. 

I have owned the passap, brother, silver reeds you talk about. 
I recommend the brother, it is both user friendly and intuitive but allows for more advanced work as your skills grow.
The passaps input buttons are frustrating, I find build quality on silver reed a bit lower and I really prefer brother for lace work as well as casting on (with the special cast on comb).

I also have some double bed industrial machines,which are not electronic. 
I LOVE them. They are like the passap 80 but 10000 times better to work on. You can work very quickly on them .


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## euvid

Not an electronic machine


chickkie said:


> Welcome. My favorite is the DM80 Passap


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## euvid

I would buy the Brother 970. It was the last one they made and has it's own computer that is detachable from the machine so you can put in your info while sitting at a desk. It has more features than the earlier models.
THe Passap is a great machine but has a very steep learning curve and harder to get repaired.


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## Grannie Sandy

Welcome from Maryland. Please learn to hand knit. It is not that hard Zoltan and you will be better able to understand instructions for finishing your projects that a machine cannot do. Good luck with your projects.


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## ramdoupri

I would tell u the passap e6000, awesome machine, fb has a following as well and u can see some finished projects. I have the 965I as well and nice machine but I like the passap better.


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## gcole

A really interesting site is knitic.com, they are in Europe.


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## nonak

So I'm pretty new to the world of knitting machines but I do know that one thing that should guide your decision is what kind of yarn you want to knit. I got my first machine (a singer 500) with the idea I would design and knit worsted weight afghans and sweaters for the grandkids...nope it can't handle that weight yarn. So then I stumbled upon my Singer 840 and love it -- it has an ECI for patterning but can be used with a couple of different software programs (which is exactly what I wanted - i craft afghans and sweaters customized to the wearers interest). I also got a brother 930 but it's unused. I know it's easier to get parts for the Singer - but many people LOVE brothers. I also have a singer 700 for lighter weight punch cards when I want to whip up something quick without extensive patterning. Watch out - once you get one machine others have a way of falling into your path and before you know it -- you'll have 4 or 5....send me a message if you have more questions I can help with...i'm pretty new to all this but am figuring it out fast with the help of the machine knitters group on this forum


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## MaryAnneCutler

The Singer/Studio/Silver Reed knitting machines Model SK840 is the electronic version and the SK700 is the punchcard version. Both knit the same yarns.


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## maggieandrews

Hello

Brother machines are not made any more.
Passap machines are not made any more.

These machines are only available second hand [used]

Silver Reed machines are still being made and sold new OR second hand [used]

Maggie Andrews. Harlow. Essex. England.


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## zoltanalmodo

Hi Alba,

my name is zoltan almodo i am hungarian a product designer / design manger living in London. 

that is good to hear i was thinking about the passap duo 80 but than decided that i need the computer to help me transfer the pattern and command onto the machine because i would like to change the graphics on the front (back) of the sweatshirts i would like to make.

Yes i know the Passap E6000 and E8000 as well. read about them there is one brand new for sale about $8000 in Canada.

when you write "they can handle a huge range of yarns" what do you mean? is that the fibre consistency (wool, elastic, cotton, rayon, plastics etc.) or the thikness of the yarns?

I am thinking to knit medium + light weight fabrics and leaning towards a mixture of sportswear inspired items like leggings and unitard. as for tops i would prefer something avant-garde and structural something out of the ordinary + basic sweatshirts with patters and lots of colours.

how do you handle colours with your one (4 colour changer) also what is the difference between the regular color changer and the auto-colour changer? and can i upgrade the regular colour changer to the auto-colour one on the same machine bed just i buy the auto-colour chager separate and assembel it on?

i do like Passap E6000 and know that any european product of that era were well made. + everybody says that the finished items look professional + i like that you do not need to use weights on the pieces while knitting them and that there is less flaw and the tension is even.

but others say that other machines are more versatile (for example brothers can make more patterns + there is the gartner carriage there...(i do not know what that does i might not need it)) than Passap (Duo80 or E6000) because there are more attachments available.

i am not so sure about silver reed... i am still checking how often they are on sale and what would be the price. also read that the computer only allows you to use 60 rows instead of the full length which i still need to check but that is not enough for me and i do not like limitations anyway...

-yes i got that i understand it is aconstant development of someones skill. i am building a knitting room at the moment so i might not be the one who will knit i just need to understand most of the things and buy the best possible machine (s)

could you show me images of what can be done with passap duo80?
thank you.
zoltan


----------



## susanjoy

'Huge range of yarns' refers to the ply or thickness and whether the yarn is smooth or fancy - boucle, knopped etc.
If you look at this link, you will see some pictures of what the Duo 80 is capable of:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Pat-Cook-Collection-Machines/dp/B008WLAQ80

You can make garments with different patterns on front and back by changing the punchcards. You can join different punchcards together to vary the patterns up the garment. There are lots of ways to knit Double Jacquard for different effects - this applies to the E6000 as well. These Passaps are very versatile machines.


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## der_fisherman

Firstly, define your budget to yourself.

Secondly, the following are a few tips that helped me, if you are not interested just ignore them.....

I know a little about Brother 9xx series, but not about any of the others you mentioned. I have some 910s and a 940. I buy cheap machines for spares, ones missing the tools for example...many have been lost!!

People here will naturally recommend the one they know, but if you are lucky, there will be someone who knows them all and uses them all regularly....they will hopefully list the best points of all....

Secondly, location plays a role with the values of second hand machines, for example in my estimation, Brother machines are relatively cheap in the UK & USA, but VERY expensive here in Germany...discovered that just by looking around on ebay.

So you are in a good place to look around for the 970 machine for example, if thats the one you eventually want!

I would suggest ebay, but do look carefully at EXACTLY what is on offer and the reputation of the seller.

Do printout the users manual (available as a pdf on several web sides for free), there are pictures/drawings of all the parts and tools that should be with the machine and ask the seller exactly what is missing from the original delivery, as the are seldom complete after 10 years or more of use.

Be ready to send him a page or two as many sellers will not know a thing about what they are selling, even the documentation may be missing. If so, its a good argument about a lower price.....

Here for example for a lot of free documentation:-

http://machineknittingetc.com/

Do go and pick the machine up yourself, even if it costs you more, simply because the Brother machines are heavy (I would expect any metal machine to be heavy, only plastic ones are light(er)) and the Brother end caps are only plastic, they often get damaged by the delivery postal workers.....nobody packs them as well as you would yourself!!

If you can get someone to use the mounting places on the base of the box to screw the machine to say a solid piece of wood, longer and wider than the machine, then maybe get it sent. If the seller is willing ONLY!!

Even if some parts are missing, most if not all bits and pieces you can also pick up from ebay, but don't rush and pay too much...you may not need all anyway.....

Also, there is an electrical carriage for a Brother model(s), that I have NO IDEA how or even IF it works, that may (MAY!) make the work more automatic, I believe!!!! Someone here will know far better than I about that.....

Are you mechanically/electrically good as a DIYer? As machines that are dirty (learn how to test it out before purchase) or even broken, you will pick up for next to nothing if you are clever, do not be fooled. I can give you a few tips on testing if you need them....just ask.

Remember, most Brother parts are either repairable or replaceable by a careful worker. Its not difficult with good tools and there are good firms around (especially the UK) who will clean and repair if for you for a price, if you are a Klutz.....

If you are not capable of cleaning, lubricating and repairing yourself, then it may be a good idea to find a reputable local company and buy the machine you want with a guarantee....even second hand. The UK has some good companies for that.

Are you ebay proficient? If yes, put up a search that will tell you each and every day if a new offer of a machine of the type you want has been put up for sale.

If you are a Windows user, search out and download/install the free Sourceforge software to bid at any time of the day or night called "Bid-O-Matic" or BOM in English. It will be your right hand while searching/buying on ebay!!

You will thank me for that tip alone once you are used to using it!!

After printing off the user manual for the machine you want, read it again and again, though it may not give you all the details of connecting it to a PC and using DAK for example, but there are many DAK users here, but not me... I believe you need a special cable, that fools the machine into thinking a Floppy drive is connected....I believe!!! I don't have a 970 to look at or play with!!!

Also DAK will know too, ask them!!

Remember, I only know a bit about Brother machines, but that web site I posted (and some others) have all the manuals, including the service manuals, so if you are handy with a screwdriver for example, download those too!

By the way, even with the computer, there is still a lot of work you need to do yourself.....a lot.

I know the power and the electronics for the 9xx series, the parts are all fairly similar and I could possibly help you with a few tips if you need help, as long as you know enough NOT to electrocute yourself that is.....I don't help anyone to kill themselves!!

Please do let us know how you get on, we are all interested and we will all try and help you.

Regards

Andy


----------



## randiejg

Have no experience with the Passap, but from what I understand about it, it can do much more with patterning on both sides of your knitted piece. It would likely be the most expensive option, even though it would be available used (Passaps are no longer made)

I have both the Brother 970 and Silver Reed 840 (same as Knitmaster). With the 840, you would need to purchase DAK software and cables to design shape and stitch patterns on your computer and interface with the machine. These machines are still in production.

The 970 has a control box with built in stitch patterns, and charting capabilities for your shape files. You can add more stitch patterns into the control box, and you can also use DAK with DAK cables to interface with the machine, so that you can do the same as with the 840 and design stitch patterns and shape files on your computer. Brother machines are also no longer made, so this would be available used, only.

With both the Brother and Silver Reed machines, you would need to purchase the ribber separately, whereas the Passap is a true double-bed machine.


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## der_fisherman

Radiputz said:


> Hello i think as a professinal you forgot one model: Brother Ck35 witha automatic (970 partial automatic) 6 colr changer.
> Brother ist the one with the KG a motorized single color carrige
> 
> But please check also the older Brother with the AYAB Board a modificatet Brother 910 to 940, CK35 is in modification a will be availible hopefully this year.


The interface is available and works well with the simple software supplied on one of my 910s. The interface (shield) has to be slightly modified for each 9xx model due to changes of plugging, but as far as I am aware, only the 910 and 930 are supported at this time. As they were left "poorly off" by Brother with the restricted original design.

With AYAB, the two models can then be used basically the same way as the more expensive 9xx series models can be with DAK. (This is NOT a full explanation!)

Whereas the AYAB interface allows the use of the whole width of the bed....all the time, not just duplicating a single pattern....as happened with the original 910 Brother design for example.

Its also mostly free, just the Arduino and shield costs about 50 UK Pounds from "Tinkersoup" or you can even make them yourself. Not recommended! You also need a long USB cable to attach the PC/Laptop to the Arduino.

Its a very cheap way to start (the 910 is usually a cheaper purchase as well!) and you can decide later if you want to go "more complicated" with a different model of machine.....

Look here:-

http://ayab-knitting.com/

and here:-

http://ayab-knitting.com/#getayab

The web site can be viewed in English or German!

Best of luck

Andy

PS. This might also be interesting, but I know nothing about it at all, I just watched the great little video!!

http://openknit.org/


----------



## quill-ws

Why would you advise Zoltan to Hand Knit? He obviously knows that a Knitting Machine is a good idea for him personally. Each craft has it`s benefits to those that use it. I do not like Hand Knitting, although I know the basics, I love Machine Knitting & Crochet. If someone has Arthritis or similar problems a K.M. is possible for some sufferers, Hand Knitting is okay if you have supple joints, or specially adapted Needle Holders for those with limited movement. From, Susan, U.K.


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## nitdia

Hi zoltan!

This is my first message at the forum but I have been following it for a long time ;-)

I do have a Brother 950i and a Knitmaster 580. I'm working mainly with the Brother. I have done all the DIY to connect it to the computer but I'm still at the step of running the code to actualy pass my designs from the computer to the machine. Here you can find all the info for hacking it
https://learn.adafruit.com/electroknit

How are your informatic skills? You may need a little bit of help as you need to be able to use command line.

Talking about motors, the only thing do its to move the carriage from one side to the other but they don't manipulate the needles. This means that all the increasing and decreasing is made by hand, manipulating the stitches. You can use software or knit leader to tell you how to shape the piece but you will need to transfer stitches by hand when it's needed to increase or decrease. I hope you understand what I mean.

If you can't learn how to knit with the machine, maybe the easyest way to make your designs it's paying someone to do them but I strongly recommend you just give it a try. At the begining it seems quite difficult but once you learn the basics you are able to do anything. I saw you are in London. You have good machine knitting schools there. You may try a short course (a weekend or one week course) and this is really going to help you understand the process.

Also, after knitting the pieces of a jumper (or whatever) you need to sew them together. You can use an electronic linker but still you need to put the pieces in the correct position (one stitch on each peg...) So there's some manual work to do. You can have a look on youtube videos too. Check the linker, the motor and how increases are decreases are done and you will have a better idea.

Hope you will show us your designs in a while! (I'm working on my own ones too ;-) )


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## euvid

You should check out scanthecat.com. She has excellent info and I think she is in the UK. She has her email address on her site so you can contact her. She is very knowledgeable and has info on the Brothers and maybe has some for sale.
Metropolitan in the UK sells machines so you can go there and see some.


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## zoltanalmodo

der_fisherman said:


> Dear Andy,
> 
> Thank you all i am not sure i write to the same person it looks like as if i write back on the wall...
> 
> i got my budget which is £300-350 a month and i started looking 2-3 weeks ago... i would spend 400 - 450 right now if there is a good machine and want to keep that for long and can start knitting with it or if there is a good buy ( but i really need to understand what machine to aim for first.
> 
> also willing to wait and spend 1000-1400 on something i know is the best for me on a long run and has all or most extras.
> 
> yes the reason i am writing is that hard to find a person who uses and has them all and can do a good comparison. looks like i need to send the designs and ask what is what and which machine will be able to do something like that
> 
> (i will collect all drawings and send...them to you all...)
> 
> I am in the UK and trust me it is a nightmare to do any production here...as everything (materials, yarns, rent, food, transportation is expensive.) BUT the machines are cheap yeah !!! everything else is super expensive...
> 
> (i started to put together a production facility as i figured it will be a lot easier... and started buying second hand industrial sewing machines like crazy (i think many companies shutting down their UK manufacturing businesses)
> i just got a 2nd hand cover stitch machine...
> 
> I like the KH-970 form Brother a lot but it seems to be much more expensive than anything else and the way i see it most people say OH there is more than X hundreds of patterns in it... + it has a 6 colour changer (+the Ck35) all other accessories are available for the less expensive machines 930 - 940 or 950i 965i are all good examples of handling the same range of accessories and the machine (the basic bed with electronics) costs much less. why? is the 6 colour changer is a big thing? once one bypasses the built in patterns and uploads them from the computer than why does it matter how many patterns are built in? or whether i use a KH-930-940-950i-965i OR the KH-970?
> i can upload thousand of patterns to any of those machines as far as i understood... (the garter carriage and ribber is pretty much the same... (the only difference really is that the KH-970 is the only machine capable of holding the 6 colour changer...)
> 
> Thank you very much for the good advice how to buy on e-bay. i will treasure your advice. i do not know how to set up a search but try and read about it.
> 
> i got all manuals for all machines + accessories already in .pdf and can print if needed. also very good advice to send it to the owner and go through the list together to identify missing parts.
> 
> i am prepared to pick up the machine by myself.
> 
> i have seen the brother motor for Kh-9xx range they are around £900 quite expensive for what it is. (compared to Passap doumatic80 with motor or Passap E6000 with motor)
> 
> i am an advanced DIY person like fixing... do not mind electricity + know mechanics. i have tools (no welder, metal lathe, 3d printer, laser cutter) but everything else i have.
> 
> I hope i will be able to fix one and prepared to do as they are out of production so eventually i have to...
> 
> in my opinion most users take a good care of their machines so if i buy from someone who uses them than it is ok i can manage even if something missing. i tend to be a bit more cautious when it is just happened to be in the hands of someone who wants to sell. and shops charging quite a lot for their refurbished ones... i would rather buy one from an old lady... and i know i have to re-wire them and learn about them anyway... (dealers ask quite a lot on top of the market value...)
> 
> thank you you are very kind but ...
> 
> i am on mac. bid-o-matic seems like a dream come true...
> but i am almost all the time in the studio at the moment so i hope i will not miss anything in the future.
> 
> yes there is a cable which connect most of the electronic machines to PC with DAK or other software. it cost around £20
> 
> right now i have a deadline (next September - October and would like to knit couple 3-6-12 sweaters to show to people. and maybe to put online for sale. that is all i want now. after that i will probably look for someone to take over the knitting part and develop his or her skills or invite someone for a project but prefer to keep the machine in house.
> 
> thank you appreciate you kind offer with any help if i need to service the machine will write you.
> 
> At the moment i think i will upload some of the designs and let's see what others will say... also pretty much think that eventually will buy both Brother and Passap electronic machines (KH-970 + E6000) i am pretty much sold on the Passap E6000 by now also the price seems to be less...
> 
> As for Brother i still do not understand what the ribber is for and the garter carriage + whether i need the 6 colour changer or not... (or what is the main difference between the Brother KH-970 and the rest? as far as i see all have 200 stitch per row and all accessories fit all across the range so why go for the KH-970 for double the price just for the machine? while most KH-940-KH950i-KH965i are half the price in a package with at least a ribber + sometimes the garter carriage as well.
> 
> Regards
> zoltan


----------



## KarlaHW

zoltan,
waiting to see your designs. This will help the group telling you with what machine this can be achieved.

The garter carriage is an electric carriage. It can turn the stitches around, reform them. Normally on the Brother and Silver Reed machines we see the back of the knitting, stockinette faces away from us.The garter carriage on an electronic or punch card machine turns selected stitches around to give the "garter" stitch. You can get a ribbing like stitch by turning every second stitch.
The ribber bed for Brother and Silver Reed is the front second bed. Passap always has 2 beds. The stitches on back bed (main bed) we, the knitter, see the back of the knitting, on the ribber bed we see the front stockinette side. Machine can be set to either knit on both beds in both directions or to knit circular you would set it to knit one direction on back, the other on front.
If you change the electronics out in a Brother machine then you should do that with the cheapest you can find and they will all do the same.
From KH930 on they all do 200 stitch wide patterns without having to repeat, and the 940 and up can do 999 rows with one programming.


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## nitdia

As far as I know, the main difference between Brother 970 and the other models is, as you told, the number of patterns/memory. And you are right, once you do the step and connect it to the computer it doesn't matter at all. Because of that I bought the 950i.

If you are not afraid of DYI, you can buy a Brother with non working electronics and repair it. The first one I bought run out as soon as I plug it and I repaired it using that tutorial:
http://www.machine-knitting.net/machineknittingnet/how-to-fix-a-brother-kh930-knitting-machine-with-wont-turn-on-or-no-power-fault/

This may help you to try a Brother and a Passap within your budget.

As I told you, I don't know about Passap so I explain you the "Brother things". You will need a ribber or a garter carriage if you want to have purl and knit stitches in the same row. Are you garments going to have ribs? If yes, you will need ribber/garter carriage (I'm pretty sure you will need them as almost all the garments have elastics ribs as a cuff). The difference between one and the other is that the garter carriage is a kind of motor that does purl and knit stitches in the same row (you may check a video on youtube). It also could be used as a motor for plain knitting (not colour).

BUT... (there is always a but...) if you are going to work with colours (as I understand) you may be interested in doing double bed jacquard. This technique avoid the floats on the private side of the work and it's done using a ribber. I think Passap also does double bed jacquard.

Good luck with your designs!

Nitdia


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## quill-ws

You are right Nitdia, Passap does knit Double Jacquard. From, Susan, U.K.


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## beckyors36

You might as well just plan on buying them all because that is what happens to machine knitters. Never satisfied with only 1 or 2 machines. 
I love my Passap E-6000 and my brothers 970 both work well with the computer. I was never a Studio person, but a lot of people like them. I also have Studio machines but find I keep going back to Passap and brothers

Welcome and good luck


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## SteveD

Hi Zoltan

i would like to compare the 3 make and 3 model. i have not really seen any comparison and do not know what machine does what better or is there any main difference in quality or ease of use?

This site has manuals and pattern books for the machines you are interested.

http://machineknittingetc.com/

All the machines you mention are good machines although the Passap is the only machine I have heard able to product similar to St. John Knitware

Another site that compares machines is

http://www.aboutknittingmachines.com/

One thing I didn't see mentioned is that the Duo 80 requires a Deco attachment to do 40 stitch repeats with a punch card otherwise you need to manipulate the pushers by hand.

There is free software to connect the Passap 6000 to a computer.

A person I haven't seen posting is Anne Croucher. She lives in Dorset, UK and makes cables and does electronic repairs for the Passap 6000. She has many machines as well and I would think she would be a great person to correspond with regarding choices for machines

Steve in PA


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## jeffgillies

The Brother automatic 6-color changer made for the 970, besides having the capacity for 6 different yarns instead of 4, is the only color changer that works automatically. Yarns are changed out automatically thru the 970's control box. 

All of the other color changers made by Brother are manual - meaning you must push a button each time you want to change colors (although I believe one or two of them can do automatic changing for 2 of their 4 colors). This will be an important factor if you plan to do designs with muliple colors. Knitting a garment piece with 1,000+ rows goes much smoother when a change of yarn every 2 rows is done automatically instead of manually.

The same is also true for the Passap's E6000 auto color changer vs it's reg. 4 color changer. With the auto color changer and a motor, the carriage is sent right into the changer to get the next yarn and continues knitting without pause.


----------



## zoltanalmodo

der_fisherman said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> yes i looked ta Ayab and if i think about it (and they are right) than there is no reason to buy any other brother machines as they seem to be built more or less on the same base 200 stitch per row. the only thing i do not understand is the colour changer how that works? also the KH-970 is a more advanced machine from start even AYAB develeopers admit that that machine communicates easier with the computer. As per whether is a quality difference between the knitted garment on KH-910 or KH-970 (presuming you use the same computer + same software and the same graphic is going to be printed) i don't know that is one of the things i would like to find out and one of the reasons i am here...
> 
> i also do not jet understand what DAK is capable of controlling on more advanced Brother machines like KH-930-940 & KH-950i-KH965i-KH-970 for example.
> another good question is if there is DAK out there already and you can controll the machine than why hacking into and develop new software? i have seen what the Japanese guys did with the KH-970 and it is AMAZING + BEAUTIFUL of course but in my mind if i go into DAK and do the graphics it is pretty much the same (except the random rip effect they programmed which is also very cool) + DAK allows me to design not just the graphics but the patter/shape of the garment as well. so why is this WOW about hacking the brother machines? i presume if i enter the same graphics into DAK (you need to design the graphics somewhere anyway...) than it will come out with DAK as well... (ok it's not a freeware but at least i can edit the pattern/shape of the garment)
> 
> what AYAB does is they have chosen another model (KH-910) which is less expensive and unlocked the limit on the number of stitches per pattern and allowed the user to use all 200 stitch per row... (which is default on more advanced machines with other hacker softwares) but did not solved the controlling of all needle positions and the software is not finished jet... and does not support more colours (4-6)
> 
> most of them uses arduino or arduino 2
> 
> i do not mind spending more money or spending a lot if it is the right machine (not looking to buy in) just would like to understand the real difference between the machines and be able to stick with one and eventually buy that one and fell like i have made the right decision.
> 
> i did not know openknit seems like a useful project page will have a look thank you.
> 
> i also found one project to hack Passap E6000 but the page is not available (i will try later) i hope it is not dead...
> 
> thank you
> zoltan
> 
> thank you


----------



## zoltanalmodo

jeffgillies said:


> Dear Jeff,
> 
> BINGO ! this is what i wanted to know. so this means that there is no physical capability on any other machines to not alone handle 6 colors but change them automatically.
> 
> so there is no real meaning to use an advanced software or a motor if the colours has to be selected manually.
> It means one has to stop at the end of every row if not using the KH-970. well the 970 is still pretty expensive but if that is the only machine capable of handling all colours automatically (i presume it can be computer controlled) than it worth the money (if you ask me).
> 
> the Passap E6000 with the auto colour does it as well just with 4 colour only.
> 
> this is something i had in mind when i started to search...
> 
> is the 4 colour meand that there can be 4 colour in one row (6 with KH-970) or means that i can only use 6 colours on the whole design? (i presume i can change the colours somehow after few rows...
> 
> as far as i imagine with my knowledge:
> 
> i can use a two colour machine and than i can use only two colors per row per pattern. BUT can change the 2nd colour when i like to another colour.
> 
> with the 4 colour i can use 4 colours per row / pattern (+ the base colour) and can change any of the 4 colours anytime after few rows...
> 
> and the same with 6 colours just have 6 colours per row/pattern.
> 
> am i right?
> 
> the Passap E6000 seems a pretty nice machine as i think 4 colours (auto colour) is ok for now and the price is not so dear as the KH-970 which would be around or more than double the price of the 970.
> 
> Thank you Jeff this is a milestone in the research as not only none of the other machines do not handle 6 colours but they also won't change them automatically. good to know...
> 
> thank you.
> zoltan


----------



## zoltanalmodo

GrandmaLiz said:


> Dear Liz,
> 
> thank you for your reply.
> 
> i am perfectly fine with a basic sweater at the moment but would like to use more colours and make my life easier to trust the machine to choose / handle / pick the colours when there is any change in the design.
> 
> 3-4 ply is fine for me i was thinking about 2 ply as well but not a big deal if i cannot do it at the moment.
> 
> i do not know much about prices. but found many parts and service for Passap so i am not afraid of the Passap models.
> Although i agree that Brother is more popular.
> 
> will have a look at the brother 270 thank you.
> 
> i know nothing about garter carriages could you explain what they do? what parts of the garment can benefit using one of those? does it gives extra texture to the garment? does it still works with all colours or just two?
> 
> i like the idea of the extra texture (+colours of course)
> 
> is the plain - rib stitches are default on the Passap double bed models? (sorry do not really know what a garter carriage does...)
> 
> what extras are available for Passap whic are good to have (except the electronic controller, auto colour, stand, row count, motor, pedal, tricot machine, and U70 / U100 transfer) ?
> and what does U 100 transfer does? when/why do you need it? what does the tricot machine do?
> 
> and have you used the Passap E6000 + auto colour + motor with the computer and DAK?
> 
> yes i would like to use the motor (of course) only if i find it safe to use (i do not want to brake the machine). i would start with hand at the beginning... and motor later on (if it does not mean that the machine gets used / worn quickly)
> 
> yes i found many of you having more machines and i was thinking about buying more machines as well. i am still thinking to buy a passap duomatic 80 with motor just to produce ribbings for jumpers + sports jackets + shirts made (sewn) out of loop-back of fleece-back jersey (maybe polar as well) also ribbings for leggings... and hats. so i would devote a separate machine for those. just need to figure out how i will be able to make nice ribbings (they are so expensive and hard to find especially if you need something out of the ordinary) so i decided to make my own in that way i can control the supply better. just i am not sure what weight / ply yarn i shall use to make nice ribbings? the ones you find in sportswear jackets for example. i still need to investigate that.
> 
> well... i am really hoping i find someone in London who has an afternoon to show a little bit of machine knitting... i found 2 places already ad e-mailed them... one of them is just next door 2 buildings form my studio... i hope she has one of these machines and can help with machine knitting.
> 
> thank you
> zoltan


----------



## zoltanalmodo

quill-ws said:


> Dear Susan,
> 
> thank you . not many people have Silver Reed machine and not many info on the net either.
> 
> i was looking at the SK840 Electronic
> 
> and know that there is a box which is programmable (via a cable) with a PC.
> 
> But if it is only 60 rows than i cannot use it... i am really excited to make few leggings and cannot do with 60 rows only... :-(
> 
> i am curious about the Japanese company making spare Passap parts... as i am thinking about setting up a duo(matic)80 for ribbing production later on.
> 
> what is the difference between the Passap duo 80 and the Passap duomatic 80 ?
> 
> i can send you drawings or the images of what i did so far...
> 
> probably the best thing to introduce myself with...
> 
> zoltan


----------



## cynthiaknits

The Passap is a harder machine to learn to use if you have not used knitting machines. If you are willing to take the time or lessons to use, it may be the one for you.


----------



## zoltanalmodo

beckyors36 said:


> Dear Becky,
> 
> Yes exactly that is happened with me and with all my sewing machines.
> 
> i might buy them all. i just need to find out which one first...
> 
> yes i felt a bit like the same with studio machines. i could not read enough about them either...
> 
> in your opinion: is there anything you cannot do with the passap E6000 (apart from the 6 colours?) what can you only do with the Brother-KH-970?
> laces? the different texture effects of the garter carriage?
> 
> + it is a bit technical... do you know if the auto colour can be assembled on the E6000 which has a regular colour changer? (it might happen that i buy one with the regular and will update later to an auto colour) can it be changed later?
> 
> i got mixed opinions about how difficult is to handle certain yarn types on Passap (nobody said anything good or bad about brother machines they all seem to have no problems handling different types of yarns) BUT someone said that the Passap is the easiest to use and can handle wide ranges of yarn types. + quite many people says that the finished garments have a professional look/feel. which is a great plus. they have a different method to close the stitches and keep the pressure / tension even and they do not require weights i think that is why the finished pieces look flat and flawless and that is why the garments look / feel professional.
> 
> thank you
> 
> zoltan


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## Bellamalis1

I have a 970, which I love. But then again, i don't do motors, and since I am the daughter of a professional dressmaker, I knew the basics on how to assemble a garment. Don't have the color changer, but I do have the 95, which will follow a preprogrammed pattern and knit it, until the set number of rows are finished. The finishing is almost as important as knitting the pieces......well made pieces of the garment. The machine has built-in shapes, which I have never used. I have a cheapie program on the computer called Sweater Knits, which works for me. Or you can buy DAK 8 which is quite expensive. Some people swear by it....others despise it, and eventually sell it to try and get their money back. I always thought the Passap, was the most expensive....but I've never got involved with one.


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## zoltanalmodo

SteveD said:


> Dear Steve in PA
> 
> Hi Zoltan
> 
> thank you for the sites. i like the finish of those St' Johns garments. they look professional.
> 
> if i buy a duo80 i will only buy it for making ribbing for all other jackets (PVC, and poly cotton, fleece jersey) and hoodies / tops.
> 
> as for Brother i am not sure i am interested in the various patterns and garter carriage textures / patterns. but not absolutely necessary at the beginning.
> 
> thank you
> zoltan


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## zoltanalmodo

Jokruger said:


> Dear Jokruger,
> 
> thank you for your advice. based on the sweater (which is really nice and looks very clever) you posted i am quite convinced that the Passap will be able to do what i have in mind. I do not know hand knitting, read knitting patterns or how to make punch cards. that is why i think the computer would work the best. i would like to use the DAK software and download it to the knitting machine and follow instructions.
> will look out for the 32 byte version when i buy.+ make sure i will get an auto colour changer.
> 
> can the regular colour changer be upgraded / changed into an auto colour changer later?
> 
> I do not need a lace right now so i will buy another machine later when it's needed.
> 
> i start looking for a Passap e6000 in good condition.
> 
> thank you.
> zoltan


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## Maryknits513

zoltanalmodo said:


> jeffgillies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Jeff,
> 
> BINGO ! this is what i wanted to know. so this means that there is no physical capability on any other machines to not alone handle 6 colors but change them automatically.
> 
> zoltan
> 
> 
> 
> The Brother CK-35 has a 6 color changer, and the ability to change colors EVERY row. There is a color changer on both sides of the bed. It also has a motor. A friend had one years ago, and I used it for one project. Unfortunately, at the time I didn't have the money, nor the room to buy one myself.
Click to expand...


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## GrandmaLiz

Hi Zoltan

Re the Passap e6000 - I haven't learned to use mine yet because it didn't have all the functions I wanted so I had to acquire them over time and have only recently managed to get everything. I now need to learn to use it and although I am familiar with Japanese machines (Brother and Toyota) the Passap will present a new learning curve which will take time.

When I bought it, it only had the 'manual' 4 colour changer and a smaller memory but it had a motor (which I need because I have a problem with my arms - I have motors for my other Brother machines as well). 

I wanted to be able to use it with DAK which meant upgrading the memory and I wanted to be able to change colours automatically so that needed upgrading. The last thing I realised was that although the machine itself has a row counter (which counts up), the motor doesn't have a row counter - which needs to count down in order to tell the motor when to stop (Brother motors have their row counter built in). Passap's row counter is another 'optional' extra which IMHO is essential otherwise you need to keep a very close eye on your knitting so you can stop it via the foot pedal. 

The optional extras are not cheap - they have cost me as much as the machine itself so you need to bear this in mind when budgeting. I think you are unlikely to get a machine with all of these features for less than £1000! The manual and automatic colour changers can be 'swapped' back and forth but why would you want to once you have the automatic one installed? With all colour changers, the main yarn is one of the 2/4/6 colours 'installed' in the colour changer feeders - it is not in addition to them.

I love the GC and the stitch patterns that can be done - I am more of a fan of texture than colour (but that's probably because my sense of colour isn't very good). The GC is very slow though - it takes about 2 minutes to do a row with the maximum number of stitches but the end result is well worth the time taken. The GC can only be used with one colour at a time and any colour change would need to be done manually.


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## Maryknits513

zoltanalmodo said:


> Hi Alba,
> 
> my name is zoltan almodo i am hungarian a product designer / design manger living in London.
> 
> Yes i know the Passap E6000 and E8000 as well. read about them there is one brand new for sale about $8000 in Canada.
> 
> could you show me images of what can be done with passap duo80?
> thank you.
> zoltan


There is a dealer in Nantwhich, Metropolitan Machine Knitting, who sells Passap, and who is also a good instructor. It would be worth your time to contact Carol, and even to go visit the shop. It's about 3 hours driving from London. www.metropolitanmachineknitting.co.uk

There are E8000s available in the U.K. Shipping from Canada or the U.S. would be as much as the machine.

The DM80, and the DM5 (Pinkie), can knit the same things as the DE6000. The beds of the machines are all the same, and the locks (carriages) are almost the same. The difference is the DM80 uses the Deco with a 40 stitch repeat for patterning. On the DM5, unless it had be converted, patterning is done with a Jac40 (handheld punchcard system) or manually.

I have owned and knit on all 3 versions. I still have my DM80 in case the electronics on the E6000 can no longer be repaired.

The U100 transfers stitches. The most basic transfer is from ribbing to stockinette stitch. The U100 will also transfer from stockinette to ribbing. It can also be used for garter stitch, and a lot of other decorative double bed stitches.

St. John's Knits were originally knit on a Studio/Silver Reed knitting machine. The key to a St. John's knit is the yarn. They used an 80%wool and 20% rayon blend.


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## Maryknits513

Madassie said:


> Hello,
> . A point of importance to me was also that you find tons of information on the web about how to work with the Brother. Also all the patternbooks are free downloads on the internet and for Passap you have to pay. .


You should have gone to this site: http://machineknittingetc.com/passap.html All the machine manuals, service manuals, model (pattern) books and stitch pattern books are free on that site.


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## zoltanalmodo

Maryknits513 said:


> The Brother CK-35 has a 6 color changer, and the ability to change colors EVERY row. There is a color changer on both sides of the bed. It also has a motor. A friend had one years ago, and I used it for one project. Unfortunately, at the time I didn't have the money, nor the room to buy one myself.


yes they are equipped with 6 colour changer as well. unfortunately it is out of reach at the moment... they seem to be rare, large and expensive.

zoltan


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## zoltanalmodo

Maryknits513 said:


> There is a dealer in Nantwhich, Metropolitan Machine Knitting, who sells Passap, and who is also a good instructor. It would be worth your time to contact Carol, and even to go visit the shop. It's about 3 hours driving from London. www.metropolitanmachineknitting.co.uk
> -
> St. John's Knits were originally knit on a Studio/Silver Reed knitting machine. The key to a St. John's knit is the yarn. They used an 80%wool and 20% rayon blend.


Thank you. this is very useful info i am checking the site...
I will contact them if i need help or they have something for sale.
-
This is again an interesting and helpful info on Studio/Silver Reed knitting machines. i did not know they use those at St. John's (nice finish). te manual Silver Reed/Knitmaster/Studio/Empisal machines do not seem to have such high prices (used) just i cannot find a lot of information about them neither people using them it seems as if it were not so widespread / popular as the other makes. and because of that it is difficult to imagine how it would be like to own one.
one thing i learned on this forum is that even if it is linked to a computer it can only do 60 stitch wide patterns throuh Pe1 electronic module (that is what i read) which is a limitation and puts burdens on creativity.

thank you
zoltan


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## maggieandrews

Silver Reed machines were not so widely bought in the UK as Brother machines, because they were a lot more expensive than Brother machines.

You can find Silver Reed machines badged as Singer, Studio and Knitmaster. Probably other names as well just as Brother machines had different names in different places.

Maggie Andrews. Harlow. Essex. England.


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## zoltanalmodo

maggieandrews said:


> Silver Reed machines were not so widely bought in the UK as Brother machines, because they were a lot more expensive than Brother machines.
> 
> You can find Silver Reed machines badged as Singer, Studio and Knitmaster. Probably other names as well just as Brother machines had different names in different places.
> 
> Maggie Andrews. Harlow. Essex. England.


i see... is it really tru taht even if i have a PE-1 electronic console on a silver reed SK840 or Knitmaster 580 machines it only allows to control 60 stitches per row???
that's a bit odd.

zoltan


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## annazygowski

To create st.johns knits a dubied double bed machine is what you want.
I picked mine up from a place that made very sophisticated cardigans and sweaters in a rayon wool blend. They used an industrial linker to link patterned pr lacey parts to rib edges. 

A dubied is like a passap duomatic 80 but all metal and from the 1950's. They can be found for reasonable prices.
With a 5g dubied and a standard guage brother 930/ 970 you would have the best of both worlds. IMHO.


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## der_fisherman

zoltanalmodo said:


> i see... is it really tru taht even if i have a PE-1 electronic console on a silver reed SK840 or Knitmaster 580 machines it only allows to control 60 stitches per row???
> that's a bit odd.
> 
> zoltan


I can ONLY talk about Brother electronic machines remember, and some of them are similarly fettered, the 910 for example, though you can "double up" and "mirror".

Though you should understand that this is only restricted by the electronics module, not to the "needle control" itself, which is why these machines are prime targets to be connected to a PC in some way that can then control ALL of the needles with no restrictions....

This then makes the 910 and the 930 for example, ALMOST equivalent to the 970 in many ways......and a large amount cheaper usually!!

Others here can answer about other brands (as they have done!)

I hope this helps a little.

Regards

Andy


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## SteveD

Hi Zoltan,

With the PE1 connected with the EC1 you can pattern over all 200 needles but you have to mosaic the 60 stitch segments into the PE1. DAK with SilverKnit or SilverLink will allow you to pattern over all 200 needles just by designing the pattern on the computer screen and loading it into the SilverKnit or SilverLink cable assembly.

Steve in PA



zoltanalmodo said:


> i see... is it really tru taht even if i have a PE-1 electronic console on a silver reed SK840 or Knitmaster 580 machines it only allows to control 60 stitches per row???
> that's a bit odd.
> 
> zoltan


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## Maryknits513

zoltanalmodo said:


> Thank you. this is very useful info i am checking the site...
> I will contact them if i need help or they have something for sale.
> -
> This is again an interesting and helpful info on Studio/Silver Reed knitting machines. i did not know they use those at St. John's (nice finish). te manual Silver Reed/Knitmaster/Studio/Empisal machines do not seem to have such high prices (used) just i cannot find a lot of information about them neither people using them it seems as if it were not so widespread / popular as the other makes. and because of that it is difficult to imagine how it would be like to own one.
> one thing i learned on this forum is that even if it is linked to a computer it can only do 60 stitch wide patterns throuh Pe1 electronic module (that is what i read) which is a limitation and puts burdens on creativity.
> 
> thank you
> zoltan


You dont need the PE-1 or EC-1 if you buy the SilverKnit cable that is now sold instead of the PE-1 and EC-1. It works with DesignAKnit, and you won't be limited to 60 stitches.

Now that St. John's is a huge corporation, they might use industrial machines stead of Silver Reed. Once in a while, when I don't have anything to do, I'll go to the St. John's store and check out the garments. The store clerks are somewhat snobbish, and either ingore this extra large lady or watch me like I'm a shoplifter. Then I start asking technical questions about the garments and when they can't answer, I shake my head and give a big sigh. :twisted:

Look for patterns and garments by Iris Bishop. She is very creative and I really like her designs.


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## zoltanalmodo

annazygowski said:


> To create st.johns knits a dubied double bed machine is what you want.
> 
> A dubied is like a passap duomatic 80 but all metal and from the 1950's. They can be found for reasonable prices.


Dear Anna,
Thank you!

after a search and two clicks i ended up here: http://knitting.bowerashton.org/equipment-and-machinery.html

this is what my best friend told me... to buy some old industrial ones form Nottingham as there are quite a few left there. the thing with these ones is that i LOVE them but how will i learn how to use? and more importantly where can i find one for sale?

i am ok with "intarsia knitting" + if i can make nice ribbing / collars than it is all fine for me... as long as i have time to do it.

thank you. will look out for these machines.

zoltan


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## maggieandrews

The pattern repeat is 60 stitches with PE1.

This repeats across the bed 3 times and 20 stitches as a part pattern.

I have never needed a pattern to be as much as 60 stitches to one repeat.

HTH.

Maggie Andrews. Harlow. Essex. England.


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## annazygowski

Zoltan,
If you pm me I can send you some PDFs that are specifically for dubied. 

I have a parts and equipment contact in Hawick Scotland. He services and maintains university industrial machines and is nice the deal with.
He could give you a quote for a dubied machine. 
For production work dubied are great. I did not find passap worked fast enough for my particular production needs. Everyone is different tho!

I think with knitting there so many streams of assembly, construction and yarn thickness that defines which machine you need that it can be very difficult to sort through opinion and fact in terms of recommendations. 
Each yarn thickness and technique is better on a particular machine.


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## zoltanalmodo

nitdia said:


> Hi zoltan!
> 
> This is my first message at the forum but I have been following it for a long time ;-)
> 
> I do have a Brother 950i and a Knitmaster 580. I'm working mainly with the Brother. I have done all the DIY to connect it to the computer but I'm still at the step of running the code to actualy pass my designs from the computer to the machine. Here you can find all the info for hacking it
> https://learn.adafruit.com/electroknit
> 
> How are your informatic skills? You may need a little bit of help as you need to be able to use command line.
> 
> Talking about motors, the only thing do its to move the carriage from one side to the other but they don't manipulate the needles. This means that all the increasing and decreasing is made by hand, manipulating the stitches. You can use software or knit leader to tell you how to shape the piece but you will need to transfer stitches by hand when it's needed to increase or decrease. I hope you understand what I mean.
> 
> If you can't learn how to knit with the machine, maybe the easyest way to make your designs it's paying someone to do them but I strongly recommend you just give it a try. At the begining it seems quite difficult but once you learn the basics you are able to do anything. I saw you are in London. You have good machine knitting schools there. You may try a short course (a weekend or one week course) and this is really going to help you understand the process.
> 
> Also, after knitting the pieces of a jumper (or whatever) you need to sew them together. You can use an electronic linker but still you need to put the pieces in the correct position (one stitch on each peg...) So there's some manual work to do. You can have a look on youtube videos too. Check the linker, the motor and how increases are decreases are done and you will have a better idea.
> 
> Hope you will show us your designs in a while! (I'm working on my own ones too ;-) )


thank you. now i know hat a linker is !!!

yes i created a folder and started to put all drawings and inspiration into it. it takes time to organize them (one thing to know what i like and another to show it...)

but here is my website www.yarimaki.com where you can see what i do. i will carry on doing these things but now i would like to add knitted leggings + cardigans, sweaters as well.

plus knit the crazy graphics onto the jumpers...

and i am looking for the right techniques and machine...

thank you.
zoltan


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## zoltanalmodo

annazygowski said:


> If you pm me I can send you some PDFs that are specifically for dubied.


Dear Anna,

yes please my friend says that these are the machines she recommended as well...

i am soaking up knowledge....

thank you.
also we found a place (http://www.tortex.co.uk/index.html) where they refurbish and sell industrial knitting machines. they only advertise single bed machines though...

z


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## zoltanalmodo

maggieandrews said:


> The pattern repeat is 60 stitches with PE1.
> 
> This repeats across the bed 3 times and 20 stitches as a part pattern.


Dear Maggie,

thank you i understand it better now.
but what if i would like to upload a wider drawing / graphic form DAK and use full width of the machine? what would happen than?

i would like to design a large graphic on front of a jumper and knit the front panel all in one without repeating patterns how will i do that using DAK and PE-1?

i presume PE-1 is necessary to connect the computer to a machine or can it be bypassed so that the design/drawing goes directly to the machine? sorry i still do not get whet the PE-1 unit is responsible for other than receive the pattern designs from DAK and repeat the 60 stitch width... can it do one large 150 stitch wide drawing + shape the garment piece i work on?

thank you.

zoltan


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## beckyors36

The Passap and Brothers give different types of garment finish. St John knits are done with very professional finishes on both machines. You can't add 6 color to the Passap in one row but you could change to different colors in additional rows by swapping color. The Passap ribber in great because it never shifts out of line where the brother can. The garter carriage is great if you what to do knit/purl designs. You can walk away and it will run without much trouble as long as you are using good yarn. 
I have never had success using Red Heart type of yarns. 
As a rule most coned yarn will work on either machine as long as it has a little give. I always try to stay with a good coned yarn like Tamm. There are other companies that also provide good yarn for knitting machines like Silk City. 

Good luck on your adventure.

You might like to look into the Passap e-8000. They are hard to find but if you are interested in knitting fabric and doing cut and sew they are great. They can knit different pattern on each side and also can do a reverse color design.


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## jeffgillies

> can the regular colour changer be upgraded / changed into an auto colour changer later?


The Passap regular color changer can't be upgraded/changed. Instead, you merely remove it and swap it out with the auto color changer. As you search for an E6000 for sale, chances are if you find one that comes with a motor, it will most likely have the auto color changer as well since these two accessories were designed to work together.

Regarding your questions about the KH970 auto color changer and the E6000's--

The 970's control box gives complete control over color changes, selecting whichever color you choose at whichever row you want it chosen. This can be a regular ordered sequence like: "1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3... every 2 rows", but it can also be in a sequence that is random. This is because each little arm holding one of the 6 yarns has an individually controlled solenoid. The 970 uses a cable that connects to the changer to send the signals that activate these switches.

The E6000's auto changer, on the other hand, will only automatically change the yarns in a repeating sequential order (i.e. color 1 first, followed by color 2, then 3, then 4, back to 1 again starting the sequence over). It doesn't possess the ability to individually control the changes via it's console in the way the 970 can control it's 6 color changer.

All that being said, 99% of the color designs and patterns that you will come across will be knitted with color changes that happen in repeating sequential order and at repeating regular intervals (usually every 2 rows). Those individually controlled changes that the 970 can do, though technically very amazing, aren't often called for or needed.

Merely wanted to make sure you were aware of the difference between the two, though.


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## zoltanalmodo

Macon said:


> The Singer/Studio/Silver Reed knitting machines Model SK840 is the electronic version and the SK700 is the punchcard version. Both knit the same yarns.


i see. i looked at the lace patterns of the 700. and they are really nice! these machines are not so expensive either...

will the punch-cards of other manufacturers ( i mean other designs made for (let's say) brother KH-910) fit the the SK 700 and create the same lace / result?

the SK840 seems a bit expensive for me at the moment.
and i got lost when it comes to understand the range of accessories for SK840...

BUT could do with a basic punch-card machine which does beautiful laces and i can use punch-cards. i can imagine to set up a machine just for lacework (and as far as i read the SK-700 is good for that ... not so expensive either.

so i might just get one SK700

z


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## Maryknits513

zoltanalmodo said:


> i see. i looked at the lace patterns of the 700. and they are really nice! these machines are not so expensive either...
> 
> will the punch-cards of other manufacturers ( i mean other designs made for (let's say) brother KH-910) fit the the SK 700 and create the same lace / result?
> 
> the SK840 seems a bit expensive for me at the moment.
> and i got lost when it comes to understand the range of accessories for SK840...
> 
> BUT could do with a basic punch-card machine which does beautiful laces and i can use punch-cards. i can imagine to set up a machine just for lacework (and as far as i read the SK-700 is good for that ... not so expensive either.
> 
> so i might just get one SK700
> 
> z


You can't use Brother lace designs on the Silver Reed, nor can you use Silver Reed lace designs on the Brother. It's because of the way the different lace carriages work.

The Silver Reed 700 is a versatile, sturdy machine. I found one in a thrift shop, and although I absolutely DID NOT need another machine, I ended up getting it. I am now in the process of undoing years of neglect. The Answer Lady's husband, Jack, has made and posted several YouTube videos that gave me the courage to try restoring it. Frozen patterning drums is the biggest problem.


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## zoltanalmodo

Maryknits513 said:


> You can't use Brother lace designs on the Silver Reed, nor can you use Silver Reed lace designs on the Brother. It's because of the way the different lace carriages work.


I see thank you good to know...

z


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## annazygowski

But you can easily punch a new card. You can make the same laces, you just need to reconfigure the holes since the brother uses two carriages for lace and silver reed uses one. I prefer the brother method personally.


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## MaryAnneCutler

For what its worth, the SK700 needs a separate lace carriage which usually is sold separate. It was not part of the original factory package.


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## zoltanalmodo

Macon said:


> For what its worth, the SK700 needs a separate lace carriage which usually is sold separate. It was not part of the original factory package.


thank you will have a look.

z


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## zoltanalmodo

annazygowski said:


> But you can easily punch a new card. You can make the same laces, you just need to reconfigure the holes since the brother uses two carriages for lace and silver reed uses one. I prefer the brother method personally.


Thank you Anna,

I see. when you say "I prefer the brother method" do you mean that brother machines are easier to work with or that the end result is nicer / smoother / does have a more professional look?

thanks
z


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## zoltanalmodo

Jokruger said:


> Welcome. Should you buy a E6000 make sure of its download capacity (from a computer). You need the 32K version as the older versions 8K is not downloadable. However when I do lace, the knitmaster is very good (in my opinion.


Thank you for all your advices you have been very helpful. I signed to Ruth's (passap kitters) forum as well just have not been validated yet.

now... an e6000 is up for sale ...
and the owner does not know where to look for the size of the memory in the electronic control unit. (neither i) could you tell where to look for that information?

the machine is labelled as Pfaff (not passap) e6000 (as far as i know they are identical) and both the electric console and the carriage are medium-dark grey in color (instead of white...)

it seems to be in very nice/good condition packed nicely as it was once used and than carefully packed back. they say they have not used the machine since they re-packed it. has few extras (like U100e)

it seems that seller did not used this machine (must have been another member of the family...)

and does not have the motor or the auto changer.
the price is good though.

there is another one as well that is an Empisal / Knitmaster 700k knitting machine+ LC2 lace carriage and SRP-60N ribber with books and accessories...
again boxed and only the plastic discolored (which is fine by me)

i looked at the lace patterns and kind of like the machine the price is much much better than on any of the brother machines i would go for.
and i would like to buy and set it up for fine lace work using one or max. two colors.
few questions about this one...
when you mentioned that you prefer the SK700 what did you mean? is it the ease of use or the final result ( finish / look/ feel of knitted piece ) is that you liked better?

would it be difficult to copy other lace patterns of Brother and implement them on this machine (and they still look the same / similar) ? is it difficult to make my own lace patterns and create punch-cards?

+ there are several attachments form another source: (a charity shop sells them and they cannot give me any answers...)

will these attachments fit the SK-700?
- Knitmaster Rib Transfer Carriage RT-1
- Knitmaster automatic linker SC-3
- Intarsia Carriage Model AG-20
- i can't see any color changer(s) could you advise what to look for?

thank you
zoltan


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## annazygowski

I have a silver reed lc2 lace carriage. Depending on the design, if it's super open, like a mesh the stitches drop and it drives me berserk.
The brother lace setup doesn't do that. It's because of the way stitches are transferred and formed. I find the brother method more reliable. If you punch your own cards you can design around the limitations of the lc2 carriage.


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## zoltanalmodo

annazygowski said:


> I have a silver reed lc2 lace carriage. Depending on the design, if it's super open, like a mesh the stitches drop and it drives me berserk.
> The brother lace setup doesn't do that. It's because of the way stitches are transferred and formed. I find the brother method more reliable. If you punch your own cards you can design around the limitations of the lc2 carriage.


i see...

i would like to knit fine / dense stockinet with one or tow colors only.

thank you
z


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## annazygowski

Ok, you don't need a lace carriage for stockinet
You'll be fine.


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## Regi

I can't comment on the Passap, but I love the Brother 940 and 950i both of which work with a computer and in my case Designaknit. They are true workhorses! I also have a 970 but have difficulty seeing the display on the CB1 and find it doesn't work with my version of DK. I'm looking forward to the arrival of a Knitmaster 580 with lace carriage and finding out what it's capable of.
Regi


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## jaysclark

Welcome.

It is a bit like saying which is the best car. Everyone has their favourite, they will all get you from A-B, but some have all the bells and whistles and some very basic

If you want lots of different sts and techniques, then the Passap e6000 or the Brother 970 would be my choice.

If you are thinking more of shapes than patterns then a basic punchcard model would be adequate


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## Tallie9

The following site shows what accessories are compatible with what Knitmaster machines:
http://www.xenaknits.com/knitmaster-empisol-knitting-machine-list/

Eventually you'll have more than a few different machines... If you'll be producing fabric(no shaping) for 'cut&sew' garment construction....the Passap would definitely be my choice...
If you are planning to do alot of lace....my first choice would be a Brother...Second choice would be the Knitmaster...only because the 'pattern drums' can be problematic when doing production work...although with the Knitmaster electronic there are no pattern drums to contend with..


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## mieke van tilburg

Do you need a ck35 ppd for the ck 35knitting machine or is a computer o k


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