# It's NOT Fair Isle



## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:

I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.

Fair Isle knitting is a very specific type of pattern from the Shetland Islands, Nordic is another style of knitting where the colors are carried as does Andes knitting and others. All these specific styles are part of a category called Stranded Knitting. I would like KP to officially note (via this this post) when colors are carried it's called Stranded Knitting. I hate to see the historic title of Faire Isle become generic. Even in Shetland, there are several styles by area. Knitters on the main island would never call their work Fair Isle unless they got the pattern from a friend who lives on Fair Isle. Also, Fair Isle knitters never knit on straights. they use 40mm long dpns or a circular needle.

I'm making my 4th trip to Shetland this month....so I get a bit teechy about this topic.

Please comment whether you think I am nuts or not..


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## Doriseve (Jul 7, 2014)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


I tried telling KPrs that a few weeks ago, but not everyone saw that post. Let's hope they see yours. Yes it bugs me too.


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## the-pearl-hunter (Jul 11, 2016)

Hi I totally agree with you. We should keep our heritage alive. We have so much here in the uk and its slowly being eroded away. Margaret UK


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## Julianna P (Nov 18, 2013)

I think it is like Xerox and Google, the original meaning gets lost and it becomes a generic term. I can see how it would be frustrating but life is too short to get upset.


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## impatient knitter (Oct 5, 2011)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


I cannot comment on whether you are "nuts or not," because I don't have enough information to make a diagnosis, and I'm not a psychiatrist anyway.

But, it has always been my understanding that the primary difference between fair isle and, say, intarsia, is that Fair Isle consists of only two colors per row, whereas, intarsia can be several colors, each of which is carried along on a bobbin. Perhaps that is what you are referring to as "stranded?"


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## attycasner (Apr 25, 2013)

I agree - it is petty. Considering all the tragedies in this world today war, poverty, catastrophes, terrorism, incurable illnesses to name a few, that is petty.


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## Alanan (Sep 22, 2011)

Do not want to create a problem but I agree with you. My Uncle lived in Lerwick, Shetland Isles, and my Aunt made me some Fair Isle sweaters. I loved them. She also taught my DM how to knit Fair Isle.



KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


 :sm02: :sm09: :sm24:


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## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

I guess we are "old", as it was known as Fair Isle when I was a small tot and my mother used to do it....old habits die hard.


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

That's right, Gloria, Stranded Knitting is the word for the definition you provided I.e. the difference between Fair Isle and Intarsia should be, the difference between Stranded and Intarsia.

Thanks for contributing because you made me realize why Knitters have become confused.


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## Viwstitcher (Jul 29, 2013)

Sometimes the "petty" things are our way finding a way not to cry over all the things that happen.. I have a lady in our prayer shawl ministry that calls yarn "thread". She should know better. We do have a lady who crochets on that lovely fine crochet thread. I would be offended to have my skill lumped in with the ladies who do simple designs on bulky wool.


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## kponsw (Feb 7, 2013)

This subject comes up often enough. Fair Isle is Fair Isle. There are plenty of other forms of stranded colorwork, but they are not all Fair Isle. Just like they are not all Icelandic or Norwegian. Too many people want to change the 'nomenclature', because it's so much easier than learning the differences. Sigh.


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Very interesting, Alanan.. I guess you pointed out that the misunderstanding has gone on for quite sometime...and that's certainly not creating a problem.

I'm told that the Shetland Knitting was introduced to London in the late 1880's at a Royal Exhibition. A Shetland business man got the idea to market local knitting there and the label Fair Isle was created as a market term to sell the sweaters. These pictures are courtesy of the Textile Museum in Lerwick. I believe the knitting is true fair isle.


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Oh I worry about all those big things as well. Your comments remind me of a time when I was helping a group of Yugoslavian refugee teenagers learn to adapt to America and without their parents. We were all out walking our dogs and one of them peed on the lawn of a ritzy condo building. A man came screaming out to yell at us about the dog. I lit into him explaining what these kids had gone through and how petty his remark was. Thankfully, he put his tail between his legs and sulked back into his building.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread.



attycasner said:


> I agree - it is petty. Considering all the tragedies in this world today war, poverty, catastrophes, terrorism, incurable illnesses to name a few, that is petty.


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## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


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## charbaby (Mar 24, 2013)

KathrynJG said:
 

> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


Nuts? Maybe. I bet we all have something we are "a bit teechy" about. Nuts just makes one colorful & more interesting. I have not been confident enough to try either stranded or Fair Isle. Glad to know this information. Thanks. Nuts is good!


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

BettyIrene, I am careful to use the term wool (even when it is cotton) when I am in the UK. But in America, alas, we say yarn.


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

kponsw said:


> This subject comes up often enough. Fair Isle is Fair Isle. There are plenty of other forms of stranded colorwork, but they are not all Fair Isle. Just like they are not all Icelandic or Norwegian. Too many people want to change the 'nomenclature', because it's so much easier than learning the differences. Sigh.


I've banged on about it enough in the past so I'll confine myself to agreeing with your perfect and succinct response.


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## sollyb (Jul 14, 2016)

I'm missing something.....if the colors in real fair isle are not "carried" which I assume means carried along as "floats" on the back of the work, then how do the colors get where they are needed?


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## fergablu2 (Apr 30, 2011)

I'll consider myself officially sanctioned by the Fair Isle police, because I have been an infractor. And I won't be adding any of my pet peeves, which are legion.


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## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

I never knew that. I could understand why we use the "brand" instead of the "generic" just like another KPer said. We Google, we buy Kotex (well, not me any more), we use Bandaids, etc. But from now on, I'll try to remember the term "stranded." Thanks for the info.
Oh, and here's another--Kleenex!


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

thanks for the explanation


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## choertt (Sep 18, 2011)

Whatever any of us call it, it is special and I wish I were more skilled in stranded, 
Fair Isle, intarsia, et al.


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## kponsw (Feb 7, 2013)

Ellie61knit said:


> Someone talked about Icelandic fair isle a couple of months ago and I cringed. When I was growing up fair isle patterns that I used were from my highland grandmother and they were done on long dpn's. Circulars were not really around then. Gran was not from fair isle but the patterns she used were traditional ones. Knitting traditions are important, fair isle, Shetland lace, Aran knitting, Faroese, Norwegian and Icelandic colour work, Estonian lace it all has its place in this wonderful world of knitting. Nowadays though, cultures have been mixed as the world has become much more open because of travel and Internet sites such as Ravelry. Yarns of all kinds including traditional ones such as Shetland wool and Lopi are available to us no matter where we live. If we want to be purists then we would be accurate in our depiction of these specific knitting types, and certainly if you're selling fair isle as authentic fair isle then it should be fair isle, but really it's perfectly okay IMO to knit in that style and call it a fair isle pattern and I don't think that people who do so are trying to be deceptive in any way. Rather, they are paying homage to a lovely traditional knitting form that for generations was known only to a few. Now, we are lucky that we can enjoy it also


I prefer that we call things what they are. It brings to mind the people who see me crocheting and ask me what I'm knitting. When I tell them I'm not knitting, I'm crocheting, the usual response is "Oh well, it's the same thing." Even though I have yarn in my hands, it's not the same thing.


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

kponsw said:


> I prefer that we call things what they are. It brings to mind the people who see me crocheting and ask me what I'm knitting. When I tell them I'm not knitting, I'm crocheting, the usual response is "Oh well, the the same thing." Even though I have yarn in my hands, it's not the same thing.


This is a good time to educate those who do not know the skills are different. I tell them it's like comparing soccer to football. Both are team games, but very different. Knitting uses two needles, crochet only one hook but both use yarn.


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## kponsw (Feb 7, 2013)

Ellie61knit said:


> Then you could explain that crochet is done with a hook and knitting is done with two needles.


My point exactly. The differences between Fair Isle and other stranded colorwork could also be explained! :sm24:

(Although I might add that the people who don't know the difference between knitting and crocheting really don't care enough to listen.)


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## KathrynJG (May 23, 2013)

Charbaby..get those needles out and try. it's the most fun I ever have knitting. And if you get stuck, ask KP for help.!


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## abc123retired (Nov 1, 2011)

I feel that accuracy in terminology is on its way out. I understand totally your argument and want to add my pet peeve. It positively unnerves me when people call a “sleeve” an arm, like in “I have to make the arm longer” or “I have trouble sewing the arm in”. Don’t they read their own writing?


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## EstherOne (Jan 25, 2016)

KathrynJG said:


> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> Fair Isle knitting is a very specific type of pattern from the Shetland Islands, Nordic is another style of knitting where the colors are carried as does Andes knitting and others. All these specific styles are part of a category called Stranded Knitting. I would like KP to officially note (via this this post) when colors are carried it's called Stranded Knitting. I hate to see the historic title of Faire Isle become generic. Even in Shetland, there are several styles by area. Knitters on the main island would never call their work Fair Isle unless they got the pattern from a friend who lives on Fair Isle. Also, Fair Isle knitters never knit on straights. they use 40mm long dpns or a circular needle.
> 
> ...


I hope you mean 40 cm long dpns.... You would need an awful lot of 40 mm ones to knit, for example, a sweater. 
(OK, I just ducked behind my computer to avoid whatever you're throwing at me now :sm09: )

(... and I've carefully come out again...) From the way your write your remarks, I'm thinking that Faire Isle knitting has more to do with the area where the pattern originated, than with the technique. Unfortunately, you cannot prevent a proper name for something to become a generic name: Think of aspirin (for any tablet of acetylsalicylic acid); sellotape (for any transparent, one-sides-sticky adhesive tape, or in North America, scotch tape); velcro (for any hook & loop tape).

Now, I've got a question: When I've read about knitting with two or more colours at a time, (stranded knitting), the directions almost always seem to indicate to anchor the unused colour(s) every 3 or 4 stitches. This of course, gives floats on the wrong side of the garment and those floats and I do not get along at all. They always manage to catch my earring, finger ring, wind-up button on my watch, hook on my bra, zipper tab in the side seam of pants or skirt. So to prevent that, I catch the unused colour every second stitch and have not trouble with the loops then. Is there a name for this kind of knitting? I'm thinking it's not stranded as there are no strands or floats on the back....


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## EstherOne (Jan 25, 2016)

kponsw said:


> I prefer that we call things what they are. It brings to mind the people who see me crocheting and ask me what I'm knitting. When I tell them I'm not knitting, I'm crocheting, the usual response is "Oh well, it's the same thing." Even though I have yarn in my hands, it's not the same thing.


People that have never learned the particular craft, will call it anything they like. I have stopped trying to educate them, doesn't work anyway. For about 15 years, I demonstrated bobbin lace making at our local Fall Fair. If I were to get just one dollar for every time someone asked, 'Is that tatting?', or worse, 'My mother (grandmother) used to tat just like that!", I could have a lovely vacation with my husband in the Caribbean or some other exotic place!


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## no1girl (Sep 4, 2012)

I do not believe you are "nuts" but you are fortunate that a bit if knitting is upsetting you, not anything at all serious.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Ellie61knit said:


> Then you could explain that crochet is done with a hook and knitting is done with two needles.


Umm ... In Portugal, there's a tradition of knitting with two hooked needles; they're essentially two afghan hooks used the way most other knitters use knitting needles. For better or worse, globalization of knitting needle production is weaning the Portuguese off that tradition.


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

I would think that having the correct terminology would make it easier to search for patterns.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


No, I don't think you're nuts. But you're - to put it crudely - spitting into the wind. Language evolves despite the most earnest wishes of those who want to keep it as it is. Nothing can prevent the change.

Now, _my_ pet peeves in the same area. 
First: Feather and Fan versus Old Shale. 
Second: the hogwash around the supposed 'meanings' of Aran stitch patterns.

As much as we would like everyone to call these things that are close to our true-knitters' hearts by their correct names, too much misleading publicity over too many decades has ensured that the misnomers will live on, despite all our outcry. As long as _some_ remember, record and pass on the information (books, websites, word of mouth), there will be _some_ who know and use the correct nomenclature. The rest will remain ignorant, and there's nothing to be done for it.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


You are not nuts, just particular about your definitions. It irritates the heck out of me sometimes especially when so-called Fair Isle patterns run more than two colours in a row.

There are also lots of "Shetland" lace patterns that do not even contain traditional Shetland stitches, and "Aran" patterns whose only qualification seems to be that they contain cables.

IMO if knitters are truly interested in tradition they will learn the differences, as you have.

But, tradition or not, there is one thing I will not do again and that is a steek :sm02:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

LizR said:


> This is a good time to educate those who do not know the skills are different. I tell them it's like comparing soccer to football. Both are team games, but very different. Knitting uses two needles, crochet only one hook but both use yarn.


When you say they both are team games but very different you are missing the point. Soccer is football, it is a football game in which two teams of 11 players try to kick or head a ball into the opponents' goal. It is played with a different shaped football, it is played with a round football. Only the goal keeper is allowed to touch the ball with his hands. It is a different code of football. Just as Australian Rules Football, Gaelic Football, Rugby Union and Rugby League are also football, just different codes of football and all played with different shaped footballs. Soccer is a universal game and played by many nations. American Gridiron is another team game that people call football. Although they call their main matches 'The World Series' I believe that the only county to actually play the game and take part in those series of games is the USA. I have a question to ask about American Gridiron. Do the players actually kick the ball or do they just grab it and run. Australian football players kick the ball and mark the ball; have you seen some of the Aussie Rules players with their mile high flys to mark the ball.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

sollyb said:


> I'm missing something.....if the colors in real fair isle are not "carried" which I assume means carried along as "floats" on the back of the work, then how do the colors get where they are needed?


If the area to be worked in a different colour is large then the different colours are wound onto small bobbins and left at the back of the work. The new colour is picked up and the different coloured yarns are carefully intertwined or wound around each other on the first stitch so as not to form a hole. Picture knitting uses this technique. It is the same technique as used when weaving a tapestry. The trouble with carrying long floats is that these floats can be pulled in when knitting that colour again and this results in a puckering of the finished items. I have just had a glance at my _ Fair Isle knitting_ by Sarah Don and the traditional Fair Isle patterns do not seem to have a colour run of more than 6 stitches, with only two colours used in each row. _Knitting around the world_ from Threads also shows this.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Ellie61knit said:


> Someone talked about Icelandic fair isle a couple of months ago and I cringed. When I was growing up fair isle patterns that I used were from my highland grandmother and they were done on long dpn's. Circulars were not really around then. Gran was not from fair isle but the patterns she used were traditional ones. Knitting traditions are important, fair isle, Shetland lace, Aran knitting, Faroese, Norwegian and Icelandic colour work, Estonian lace it all has its place in this wonderful world of knitting. Nowadays though, cultures have been mixed as the world has become much more open because of travel and Internet sites such as Ravelry. Yarns of all kinds including traditional ones such as Shetland wool and Lopi are available to us no matter where we live. If we want to be purists then we would be accurate in our depiction of these specific knitting types, and certainly if you're selling fair isle as authentic fair isle then it should be fair isle, but really it's perfectly okay IMO to knit in that style and call it a fair isle pattern and I don't think that people who do so are trying to be deceptive in any way. Rather, they are paying homage to a lovely traditional knitting form that for generations was known only to a few. Now, we are lucky that we can enjoy it also


Circular knitting needles have been around for a long time. They were invented in the late 19th century, that is the late 1800s. Some people think they are a modern day invention but they are far from a modern day invention.


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## Maryannes (Mar 10, 2016)

Maybe a little quirky...
But really, thanks for illuminating me about the nuances. I did not know, and am happy to be 'educated' about the differences. 
It's like with the definition of 'lace'.


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## Susanc241 (Nov 13, 2013)

bettyirene said:


> In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


Same here in UK. Always known the stuff you knit with as wool until using this site and now differentiate so I am understood. Back then of course almost all yarn WAS wool. We didn't have acrylic or other man made fibres so it all made sense.


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## meisie (Dec 18, 2015)

In South Africa they also call yarn "wool". The first time I wanted to buy yarn here in the US, I asked for "wool" and the lady in the shop did'nt know what I was taking about. But I've learned a lot of things that is different here than it is in South Africa. Thanks to all the helpful people here.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Calling all colour work Fair Isle is not new. Around 50 years ago we called any knitting that had colours similar to what you are calling was called Fair Isle. Didn't matter where it came from or how many colours in a row. Blocks etc weren't but anything along the lines of stranded was. 

As to yarn versus wool it is one of the very few times I agree that the American term is better and so do use it. I'm not saying the others are wrong but most times it really doesn't matter so I keep using our terms.


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## motormom (Nov 16, 2013)

Bugs me, too! Thanks for the clarification.


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## Dazeoffchar (Dec 27, 2013)

Thanks for the information....I had no idea what fair isle really meant. I have only been a knitter for a few years. If I ever get the courage to try fair isle knitting I would like to do a little reading on it's history and learn the proper way to do it. Thanks again.


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## averal (Dec 6, 2011)

99 percent of everything is BETTER WITH NUTS ON IT !!!!!


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## GogoJules (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for the correct information. Can you explain, in Fair Isle, using their particular pattern, how are the colours dealt with. Do they not carry the thread behind the work???
Thanks, Jules


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## silversurfer (Nov 25, 2013)

I agree that the technical definition of "fairisle" is one thing and patterns which knitters call fairisle are 2 different things. However we have to accept that language is not always precisely accurate. I, and many others, call my vacuum cleaner a "Hoover" even though it has been a Panasonic, an Electrolux and now a Zanussi.


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## Maplelkknitter (Dec 19, 2013)

I knit Fair Isle and I KNOW the meaning of the term. But sonce you haven't seen my work----.


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

Knitted by Nan said:


> When you say they both are team games but very different you are missing the point. Soccer is football, it is a football game in which two teams of 11 players try to kick or head a ball into the opponents' goal. It is played with a different shaped football, it is played with a round football. Only the goal keeper is allowed to touch the ball with his hands. It is a different code of football. Just as Australian Rules Football, Gaelic Football, Rugby Union and Rugby League are also football, just different codes of football and all played with different shaped footballs. Soccer is a universal game and played by many nations. American Gridiron is another team game that people call football. Although they call their main matches 'The World Series' I believe that the only county to actually play the game and take part in those series of games is the USA. I have a question to ask about American Gridiron. Do the players actually kick the ball or do they just grab it and run. Australian football players kick the ball and mark the ball; have you seen some of the Aussie Rules players with their mile high flys to mark the ball.


Oops didn't mean to offend any football players. I have upgraded my profile to show I am in the US and only use that analogy here. I know about football because grew up in the UK but because this forum is international I should have said American football which, after more than 50 years of living in the US, still puzzles me. 
Next time apples and oranges. :sm01:


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## alexdoc (Feb 11, 2016)

We're all crazy about something; however I refuse to be upset over the minor inconsequential things in life and what to call a type of knitting is one of those things.


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## ngriff (Jan 25, 2014)

I apologize, but I never knew the term stranded-knitting, believing it was Fair Isle. I will try to be correct in the future. (Old habits die hard though.) I appreciate all the fine designs and work that goes into it.


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

alexdoc said:


> We're all crazy about something; however I refuse to be upset over the minor inconsequential things in life and what to call a type of knitting is one of those things.


 :sm24:


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## MartiG (Jan 21, 2012)

Don't think you're nuts to explain the correct terms. Speaking for myself as a newer knitter, this is how I learn correct terminology for the many aspects of a wonderful hobby. The nice, informative way you presented the information leaves me feeling informed not insulted. Thanks for clarifying the various terms.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Wow! Finally finished reading all the posts. Now to sum up all that I learned here.


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

KathrynJG said:


> Please comment whether you think I am nuts or not..


I'm totally with you on this. It also irks me when people call all stranded knitting "Fair Isle". It also irks me when people call "Old Shale" feather and fan. They are different!


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## yarnfrog (Jul 24, 2011)

Duely noted. I did not see the post a few week ago. I grind my teeth when I hear crochet needle. Or referring to knit and crochet as interchangeable. 1 hook = crochet, 2 needles= knit. My kids will also politely speak about the difference, giving my simple explanation of 1 hook/2 needles.


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

GogoJules said:


> Thanks for the correct information. Can you explain, in Fair Isle, using their particular pattern, how are the colours dealt with. Do they not carry the thread behind the work???
> Thanks, Jules


Yes, Fair Isle is still stranded, but follows a simple set of rules. That is, that there is never more than two colours used in any one row; and generally follows a traditional pattern. While I agree with the original poster, I personally do allow for the fact that designs may evolve, and accept that there can be modern patterns in Fair Isle.


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## mrskowalski (Jun 4, 2015)

I understand that traditional wording is important.
I believe that when we are able to get the big knitting companies to use "Stranded not Fair Isle " or 
"Old Shale not Feather and Fan" in their pattern publication that are sold. Then maybe all irritation will be resolved.
IMO


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

alexdoc said:


> We're all crazy about something; however I refuse to be upset over the minor inconsequential things in life and what to call a type of knitting is one of those things.


True, it is silly to get upset over inconsequential things, but when someone is asking questions or seeking help, using incorrect terms can lead to incorrect answers. When communication is involved, precision is key....


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

yes we always have called yarn, wool in the U.K as for fair isle i have always known it as fair isle i don't think i will call it any different name now at my time of life . we are going to Scotland in a couple of weeks for a few days ,i haven't been there for about 20 years .


bettyirene said:


> In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


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## Gigiky (Feb 8, 2012)

KathrynJG said:


> That's right, Gloria, Stranded Knitting is the word for the definition you provided I.e. the difference between Fair Isle and Intarsia should be, the difference between Stranded and Intarsia.
> 
> Thanks for contributing because you made me realize why Knitters have become confused.


I'm not hung up on this, but DO like to use proper terminology. Sooo, does Fair Isle involve only two colors per row, using traditional patterns, but only carrying short strands on the back?


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## Parschwab (Apr 14, 2016)

I am a crocheter and not a knitter. The only terms I truly understand are cast on/ off, knit, purl, and maybe a couple of other things. So I really enjoy when things are explained. Hence I love it when different techniques are explained to me. I had never heard of Fair Island untol I joined this site. I appreciate any and all information these different styles and techniques. Another one that had me fascinated was the one where it looks woven. I had to look it up. So, thank you all for helping me to expand my knowledge.


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## KnitnNat (Nov 17, 2012)

Thanks so much for all this information. I'm always happy to learn.


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## Mssell (Jan 30, 2014)

I appreciate knowing the difference. I'm sure I'll make some mistakes describing the patterns in the future. But now I know why terms are different. Enjoy your trip. It's on my bucket list.


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

Language usage arouses much passion and debate whether it be about correct terminology or grammatical precision or pronunciation. Errors in all three areas grate on my ears but I have come to accept that not everyone has had the benefit of the same education that I have or cares as much as I do about such issues. The same is true in all areas of life--some are happy with a 'good enough for government work' type mentality while others seek to produce items to a higher standard. Personally, I try to realize the world would be a very dull place is everyone was a clone of me and let such things go when I cross paths with them. But, as others have pointed out, being precise does have its benefits. After all,language whether written or spoken, is supposed to transfer ideas, concepts, understanding, information from one to others. The more precise and consistent one's use, the more that is what happens.


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## smidge1952 (Mar 4, 2013)

Perhaps it's generic. We in the UK call all 'yarn' wool whether it is or not. I suppose yarn is a better description, but I don't like it. As a previous poster said we in the UK seem to be loosing lots of our terms. While I'm on my soapbox, let's go back to imperial measures!!!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mrskowalski said:


> I understand that traditional wording is important.
> I believe that when we are able to get the big knitting companies to use "Stranded not Fair Isle " or
> "Old Shale not Feather and Fan" in their pattern publication that are sold. Then maybe all irritation will be resolved.
> IMO


Don't hold your breath waiting for *that* to happen! Purists have been complaining for well over half a century already.


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## Yamyam (Feb 25, 2013)

bettyirene said:


> In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


Well I think that's what everyone calls it (except Americans) It's still wool to me, and if I spoke to an average person here about yarn they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. You've picked up an Americanism!


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## Yamyam (Feb 25, 2013)

Look, there's ALWAYS going to be something, some little thing that irritates each of us. I've got things, that don't bother other people, that drive me nuts. The best thing to do is to just forget it, and try not to get worked up over it, you don't want to get obsessive over something this trivial (irritating to you, but trivial)


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## Deanne (Jul 21, 2011)

I personally don't care what other people call something or for that matter what I call it. If I enjoy doing it that is good enough for me. I had enough of having to be correct about everything when I was working. Now that I retired I call it as I see it. Don't know if what I am knitting now is stranded or fairisle or whatever, I like the result andI enjoy doing it so end of story for me.


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## Pishi (Jul 15, 2013)

Deanne said:


> I personally don't care what other people call something or for that matter what I call it. If I enjoy doing it that is good enough for me. I had enough of having to be correct about everything when I was working. Now that I retired I call it as I see it. Don't know if what I am knitting now is stranded or fairisle or whatever, I like the result andI enjoy doing it so end of story for me.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

OK I sent myself to time out. I am sure I have used the wrong term.
Glad we have Fair Isle enforcers to keep us in line.


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## dialfred (Nov 21, 2011)

Thank you for clearing that up. I've learned a lot from other knitters.


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## beathop (Sep 10, 2015)

I agree with you. If people don't know what Fair Isle knitting is, then they should not say it. Just leave it alone. Beathop


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## ETNknitter (Feb 15, 2016)

You're not nuts at all. You are wanting to fight a specific becoming used as a generic term. It's like Kleenex, which is a particular brand of disposable facial tissue. However, "give me a kleenex" has gone into use for any brand of such tissue.


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## hallsyh (Nov 14, 2011)

Guilty your honour. I did not realise it was that specific, I call all my stranded work Fair Isle, but will try to change this habit and read up on Fair Isle when I get time.


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## LorettaHR (May 20, 2014)

IMHO, I think you misspelled a word. Isn't it "teachy"? I learned something new in the original post. I had no idea there were so many variations of stranded work, just that it all seemed far beyond my current abilities. 

I agree with another poster - clarifying the different subtleties from different regions IS important. When I started knitting, I wanted to learn to knit lace. I had no idea there were so many differences between Estonian, Shetland, Haapsalu, Orenburg, etc., but now that I've studied it, I can truly appreciate the differences, talent and hard work that goes into each genre.


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## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

I appreciate any information because it is good to know the correct definitions. I like to continually learn new things. Thanks for clarifying it. It probably bugs you as much as incorrect grammar bugs me!


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## CarlySueP (Mar 11, 2016)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


I don't think you are nuts, just precise.

For many years, I lived in a small Wisconsin town settled by Norwegian immigrants (Stoughton, WI, USA). Now I am wondering how many of those beautiful Nordic sweaters were actually Fair Isle.

I understand Stranded Knitting includes Fair Isle and Nordic and Andes, etc. But I don't yet understand the difference between Stranded styles. Is it simply the pattern of stitches and who created the pattern? If so, can I tell what style it is just by looking? How can I learn to tell the difference?

Thanks. Just trying to learn.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Ellie61knit said:


> I certainly never saw them in the shops when I was growing up


The earliest circulars were simply a length of steel wire long enough to accommodate the stitches required for the body of a pullover. They weren't sold in shops; they were homemade.

The earliest industrially produced ones *I* know of were nickel-plated brass tips soldered onto relatively stiff steel cables and came out in the late 1930s(?).

In the post-war period, there were fixed circulars that were a single piece of nylon. They are my favourite needles of all, because of their really pointy tips.

Boye and Bates had fixed circulars with stiffish nylon cables in the 50s, but they weren't in the five-and-dimes I shopped at - probably only in actual yarn shops.

The first interchageables - Boye - came out through Sears in the mid-50s.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Torticollus said:


> I appreciate any information because it is good to know the correct definitions. I like to continually learn new things. Thanks for clarifying it. It probably bugs you as much as incorrect grammar bugs me!


When it comes to grammar, what about split infinitives? That's one of my pet peeves but that doesn't seem to annoy you and/or most other people now. Language evolves just like other things and we have to get used to the changes. As for wool, it used to be the type of hair that grew on sheep, and yarn was made from wool. Now it seems to be that wool is the same thing as yarn and it can be made from any kind of fiber. I am confused. Then, we also have thread which used to come on spools, whereas, yarn came in hanks. It's a wonder that we can communicate at all!


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## wendyinwonderland (Dec 28, 2013)

I just was searching for some patterns using stranded knitting that I called "colorwork." I found a lot of cute and lovely options. I also did several versions of the Baa Ble pattern for a hat that was used for a wool festival. I'm looking for more "picture patterns" like that.
I've never really done Fair Isle but have always been interested in trying it.


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## wendyinwonderland (Dec 28, 2013)

I read a lot of posts on this topic and got curious about what the actual definition of Fair Isle is.This is from Wikipedia:

Traditional Fair Isle patterns have a limited palette of five or so colours, use only two colours per row, are worked in the round, and limit the length of a run of any particular colour. Here is an illustration from Wikipedia:[1]


KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

Elder Ellen said:


> When it comes to grammar, what about split infinitives? That's one of my pet peeves but that doesn't seem to annoy you and/or most other people now. Language evolves just like other things and we have to get used to the changes. As for wool, it used to be the type of hair that grew on sheep, and yarn was made from wool. Now it seems to be that wool is the same thing as yarn and it can be made from any kind of fiber. I am confused. Then, we also have thread which used to come on spools, whereas, yarn came in hanks. It's a wonder that we can communicate at all!


I'm with you on the split infinitives. ????


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## Netcan2 (Jan 18, 2015)

Ha!Ha! Reminds of my my brother's pet peeves, like calling a water heater a HOT water heater. Every time you call it a HOT water heater he corrects you and says it's a water heater. Once about 25 years ago I used the word "smear" instead of smudge, and he corrected me, saying, "Smearing refers to a liquid. This is a powder. It's a smudge."
It used to drive me crazy! Now I smile


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## Cashmeregma (Oct 15, 2012)

I think that educating fellow knitters on this is fine, however getting upset will just be fruitless and unhealthy for you. So many of us are learning and it can be confusing, so explaining the difference is great. Thank you so much. I know one of our other KP members has explained this also and we learn so much on here. With new members all the time, don't expect that we will all know and you will just get high BP. You aren't nuts for letting us know, but getting upset when so many are just learning won't help you at all.  Teaching us will help you though as you are passing on the knitting knowledge that you have. Have a wonderful trip next time back and perhaps you could share photos again of the area again and impart your knowledge gained from experience. I must say, there is no better way to learn than to get to go to the area of the world where Fair Isle originated. :sm02: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Cashmeregma (Oct 15, 2012)

averal said:


> 99 percent of everything is BETTER WITH NUTS ON IT !!!!!


 Yes, love your sense of humor.:sm23:


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## Irene1 (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, Jessica-Jean! 

The earliest circulars I remember were the fixed Boye ones that my aunt used to knit two-piece suits for herself. After I learned to knit, I really wanted the Boye interchangeable set, but my mother told me it would be a waste of money, as I'd soon give up knitting. Well, 50+ years later, I have a set of Addi's instead! 

I do wish that we would act as a more educated population in this country, and learn and use correct terms. It would be so nice if all of us (not just knitters!) would take the time to do a little reading and research, so that we'd all know what we were talking about. I'm waiting for the day that I can knit a real Fair Isle sweater for myself with real Shetland wool. I'm saving up for a big splurge, while I pursue wonderful books and patterns. Meanwhile, back to knitting for the kids! I've got to keep them warm this winter.


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

I found this article re the origins if fair isle knitting interesting. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1427&context=tsaconf


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## beachperson (Feb 21, 2012)

I really wish this subject was the only thing I had to be concerned with in this world we live in. Are you nuts? I don't know but you certainly are a lot different than I am.


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## Parschwab (Apr 14, 2016)

ETNknitter said:


> You're not nuts at all. You are wanting to fight a specific becoming used as a generic term. It's like Kleenex, which is a particular brand of disposable facial tissue. However, "give me a kleenex" has gone into use for any brand of such tissue.


Not sure where you are from but do you remember the commercial from kleenex when they acknowledged the fact that people called all tissue kleenex and did not mind as long as you threw the tissue in the garbage.


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## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

OK I took myself out of time out.
Sure wish this was all I had to worry about today BUT it isn't,

Have a nice day.


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## henhouse2011 (Feb 20, 2011)

There are always those who are unaware, those who don't care, those who are interested in the correct terminology and those who want to keep culture alive. And there are others who are curious and just want to know how and why and what. I do feel the more you use the correct terminology, the clearer you can communicate. Not using the correct terminology compounds errors until the true meaning is lost. Wool means one fiber, yarn can be made of darn near anything including steel. But everyone can enjoy the process of knitting no matter what level or how they term it. We all enjoy in different ways. So, I do get irked. I don't like people making no effort to pronounce anothers name correctly. On the other hand I never did learn to parse a sentence correctly. I was sick that week. I am probably splitting infinitives and freely dangling participles all over the place. Deal with it.


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## wendyinwonderland (Dec 28, 2013)

Interesting. How long are the really long European needles? Would like to try.


Ellie61knit said:


> The US patent was actually issued in 1918 but they were apparently used in Europe sooner than that. I certainly never saw them in the shops when I was growing up or maybe just didn't know what they were or never knew of people consistently using them until relatively recently. I know I never saw a pattern that specifically said to use a circular needle as most shawl patterns do today. I personally still hate them. I use dpn's or straights and never miss a beat. I get my long straights from Europe that are virtually impossible to find in the US


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

I think you are right about how you feel about the differences in knitting designs--such a right to be proud of them. Some of us just aren't as skilled in knowing the differences in the designs. And others are just happy that those designs are available to us due to the brilliance of Shetland, Estonian, Peruvian, etc. knitters. I understand wanting your heritage to remain viable, and believe me, it is. Fair Isle designs are extremely popular again--Vogue Knitting has pretty much it's entire recent issue devoted to it, with a wonderful story of how the women of the Shetland Islands developed their designs and their businesses.


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## maggiesmith (Dec 11, 2011)

Good morning, Kathryn. We'll have lots to talk about in Shetland. Flying there next Monday.


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## nankat (Oct 17, 2012)

Here is a language pet peeve of mine. Healthy vs. Healthful. People say "That is a very healthy meal." "That is a healthy salad." "I am going to eat more healthy." No. It is Healthful all around. People for example, are healthy when they are not sick. I do try to eat healthfully. Full of Health.


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## JYannucci (Nov 29, 2011)

kponsw said:


> This subject comes up often enough. Fair Isle is Fair Isle. There are plenty of other forms of stranded colorwork, but they are not all Fair Isle. Just like they are not all Icelandic or Norwegian. Too many people want to change the 'nomenclature', because it's so much easier than learning the differences. Sigh.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## ScarletDove (Oct 2, 2011)

I happen to be a detail person, so quirky is part of who we are. Way back when I was learning to knit there were only knit shops and limited books at libraries for history and info on knitting. No one around me knitted, my mother crocheted. Today we have the world of internet and everyone's understanding of different kinds of knitting. I for one have wanted to know the correct descriptions of different international knitting techniques, patterns and all the marvelous varieties of gorgeous yarns. I have had friends bring me wool yarn from Iceland, Ireland, and a lovely NZ friend sent yarn from New Zealand, truly gorgeous wools; I can order online but receiving direct is special. The correct information makes understanding clear. I admire the intricacy and beauty of Fair Isle knitting but have never attempted a design; I have done many knitted projects in stranded and intarsia patterns; my favorite challenge to knit, though, is Irish Aran cable projects.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


I hear you loud and clear. I tend to be a purist with these kinds of things, too. It's confusing and it skews the history of our craft. I'm sure some will disagree, but we can ask them if they like chocolate sauce on their pickles in their goat burger; then perhaps they'll get the picture. I expect they'd be upset to get that at McDonald's, but we can just ask them what the big deal is.....


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

nankat said:


> Here is a language pet peeve of mine. Healthy vs. Healthful. People say "That is a very healthy meal." "That is a healthy salad." "I am going to eat more healthy." No. It is Healthful all around. People for example, are healthy when they are not sick. I do try to eat healthfully. Full of Health.


This (above) is one that also bothers me too. I think that national advertisers are among the culprits. Their writers tend to shorten words or use them incorrectly, especially on TV. The misuse becomes universally understood and it becomes a part of our language. "If it's on TV, it must be all right." Some things are now accepted that would horrify my old English teacher -- thankfully, she's not here to see and hear what's going on. I sort of cringe but she would explode.


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## Parschwab (Apr 14, 2016)

hey knit vs crochet


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

i never eat junk food or go to places like McDonalds .living around farms we can get decent tasting meat also many sell Alpaca wool. [spelt wrong ]


SAMkewel said:


> I hear you loud and clear. I tend to be a purist with these kinds of things, too. It's confusing and it skews the history of our craft. I'm sure some will disagree, but we can ask them if they like chocolate sauce on their pickles in their goat burger; then perhaps they'll get the picture. I expect they'd be upset to get that at McDonald's, but we can just ask them what the big deal is.....


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

bettyirene said:


> In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


Same here


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## Maryannee (Jul 17, 2012)

Yes, my vote is for "nuts". (Your word choice) Don't worry about the small things, life is too complicated. They're all beautiful.


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## LUVCRAFTS (Feb 6, 2013)

Thank you for clearing this up in my mind. I, too, confused stranded and fair isle knitting. Appreciate any and all help in learning the difference.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

valj46 said:


> i never eat junk food or go to places like McDonalds .living around farms we can get decent tasting meat also many sell Alpaca wool. [spelt wrong ]


I don't go to McDonald's either, it was just a figure of speech since almost everyone knows who/what McDonald's is. I didn't see anything spelled/spelt wrong.....


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## eneurian (May 4, 2011)

bettyirene said:


> In Tasmania, we always called "yarn", as wool - all of it. It is only since being on KP, that I now call it yarn.


i still forget and call it all wool sometimes. we all have a pet peeve or two or dozens. my favourite is refusal to correctly differentiate 'feather and fan' from 'old shale'. aaarrrggghhh!!!!!!! it's a different pattern people.
and dont' get me started on vocabulary and/or grammar.

and before you moderns jump on me about 'don't sweat the small stuff"......it is the small stuff that specifically defines civilization and society. i am very capable of recognizing my equals, my betters, and the low and coarse. i offer the information for the latter to improve themselves rather than wallow in ignorance.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Maryannee said:


> Yes, my vote is for "nuts". (Your word choice) Don't worry about the small things, life is too complicated. They're all beautiful.


On the other hand, part of what complicates life is having too many names for small things that confuse folks as to which one you mean ;~D.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Parschwab said:


> hey knit vs crochet


Did you mean that some confuse the two?


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

I have always thought of Stranded Knitting as the umbrella term that encompasses many styles including Fair Isle, Norwegian, Icelandic, etc. where more than one colour is used per row, with the second (or more) colours not in use for a particular stitch being carried (or stranded) across the back of the work. I hadn't thought of Intarsia being included in this group of styles as colour blocks are discreet and not carried across the other colours.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Yamyam said:


> Well I think that's what everyone calls it (except Americans) It's still wool to me, and if I spoke to an average person here about yarn they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. You've picked up an Americanism!


When I started spinning I found that I changed from calling everything 'wool'. Big difference between how wool yarn is treated and how, say, silk yarn is handled. So yarn it is for me now. When I say wool, I mean wool yarn, not acrylic or silk or alpaca or tencel...Much the same as I work stocking stitch with knit and purl stitches - not 'plain' and purl - because it is a knit stitch and a purl stitch. I just love the specifics!!


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> I have always thought of Stranded Knitting as the umbrella term that encompasses many styles including Fair Isle, Norwegian, Icelandic, etc. where more than one colour is used per row, with the second (or more) colours not in use for a particular stitch being carried (or stranded) across the back of the work. I hadn't thought of Intarsia being included in this group of styles as colour blocks are discreet and not carried across the other colours.


I see Intarsia as quite a different technique from stranded work, as you say.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Lillyhooch said:


> I have always thought of Stranded Knitting as the umbrella term that encompasses many styles including Fair Isle, Norwegian, Icelandic, etc. where more than one colour is used per row, with the second (or more) colours not in use for a particular stitch being carried (or stranded) across the back of the work. I hadn't thought of Intarsia being included in this group of styles as colour blocks are discreet and not carried across the other colours.


I'm with you. Any time the knitter carries the different colored yarn on backside of the knitting it's "stranded". Notice that I use American spelling.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Umm ... In Portugal, there's a tradition of knitting with two hooked needles; they're essentially two afghan hooks used the way most other knitters use knitting needles. For better or worse, globalization of knitting needle production is weaning the Portuguese off that tradition.


I saw someone doing just that recently. First time I saw knitting with hooked needles.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

eneurian said:


> i still forget and call it all wool sometimes. we all have a pet peeve or two or dozens. my favourite is refusal to correctly differentiate 'feather and fan' from 'old shale'. aaarrrggghhh!!!!!!! it's a different pattern people.
> and dont' get me started on vocabulary and/or grammar.
> 
> and before you moderns jump on me about 'don't sweat the small stuff"......it is the small stuff that specifically defines civilization and society. i am very capable of recognizing my equals, my betters, and the low and coarse. i offer the information for the latter to improve themselves rather than wallow in ignorance.


Your definition of the purpose of the small stuff is right on; you said it best :~D.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> When I started spinning I found that I changed from calling everything 'wool'. Big difference between how wool yarn is treated and how, say, silk yarn is handled. So yarn it is for me now. When I say wool, I mean wool yarn, not acrylic or silk or alpaca or tencel...Much the same as I work stocking stitch with knit and purl stitches - not 'plain' and purl - because it is a knit stitch and a purl stitch. I just love the specifics!!


I find 'plain' and 'purl' very useful in describing how one works a Guernsey, especially as one is working so much in the round.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Yamyam said:


> Well I think that's what everyone calls it (except Americans) It's still wool to me, and if I spoke to an average person here about yarn they wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about. You've picked up an Americanism!


Laughed when I read your post, I've been binge watching English tv, especially "Midsomer Murders" recently and then spent this past weekend at a paper crafting retreat. When I saw all the paper flecks on the floor, I thought to myself, "This floor is going to need a good hoovering when we are done." Then realized what I had done. Television and KP have changed my vocabulary, probably forever, as I find that more and more I am THINKING in words not commonly used in American English, but in English as spoken in other parts of the world. Adopting the word whinge was a conscious decision, just because I like the word. I use it almost exclusively with a friend who reads even more English novels than I do ( and with whom I went to England). But thinking "hoovering" just happens.

Re: OP, I appreciate precision in speech, but have to admit that I had heard the term "Fair Isle" used for all stranded work for years before joining KP and learning what true "Fair Isle" is. Though I did hear some use the term "fair isle style". So while I agree it is important to use the correct term, I am not going to get in a dither about it, figuring that
others are where I was a couple of years ago. Generally, you don't know what you don't know, so until exposed to the correct information, you will use words in the same context or way you've learned them.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Elin said:


> I never knew that. I could understand why we use the "brand" instead of the "generic" just like another KPer said. We Google, we buy Kotex (well, not me any more), we use Bandaids, etc. But from now on, I'll try to remember the term "stranded." Thanks for the info.
> Oh, and here's another--Kleenex!


Bit like we say 'flowers' - oh so many very different things that word refers to. Helpful to have an umbrella term under which to categorise similar things. Can be tedious being specific each time.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

EstherOne said:


> I hope you mean 40 cm long dpns.... You would need an awful lot of 40 mm ones to knit, for example, a sweater.
> (OK, I just ducked behind my computer to avoid whatever you're throwing at me now :sm09: )
> 
> (... and I've carefully come out again...) From the way your write your remarks, I'm thinking that Faire Isle knitting has more to do with the area where the pattern originated, than with the technique. Unfortunately, you cannot prevent a proper name for something to become a generic name: Think of aspirin (for any tablet of acetylsalicylic acid); sellotape (for any transparent, one-sides-sticky adhesive tape, or in North America, scotch tape); velcro (for any hook & loop tape).
> ...


mmm definitely comes within 'colour work' but other colour is woven in as you knit...new term? Woven knit colourwork? :sm09:


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Lurker 2 said:


> I find 'plain' and 'purl' very useful in describing how one works a Guernsey, especially as one is working so much in the round.


But even knitting in the round you do 'knit stitches' and 'purl stitches'. It all comes down to what you are comfortable with.
Trust you are well Lurker 2. Will we be seeing you again at our Tuesday meeting in Como?


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## missjg (Nov 18, 2012)

ahoh... now I'm afraid to try any...


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> But even knitting in the round you do 'knit stitches' and 'purl stitches'. It all comes down to what you are comfortable with.
> Trust you are well Lurker 2. Will we be seeing you again at our Tuesday meeting in Como?


Unlikely at the moment, the rellies have disappeared somewhere into Ingleburn, I think, and not let me know exactly where they are- main point in going was to see DH again, I only just got that last trip paid off a few months ago. Pity, because I enjoyed my trip out to Como. Keeping well in myself, but I need to use a stroller for the hip now, all the time- may be having an operation for that, if my heart is okay- find that out on the 28th. Would you believe on my first trip I had north and south muddled, because all the 11 days there was no sun, and I got completely bushed in that long toad tunnel from the airport out to Campbelltown! Hope your spring is a bit more settled than what we are having!!!


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## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

Doriseve said:


> I tried telling KPrs that a few weeks ago, but not everyone saw that post. Let's hope they see yours. Yes it bugs me too.


I agree with you. I was making a bag with the stranding technique and someone said... "Oh, Intarsia." I corrected her immediately. While the results may "look" the same the technique is not the same.


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## Netcan2 (Jan 18, 2015)

THis topic and all the comments are bringing back so many funny incidents! Last year I was getting my sister's house cleaned out - hired men to do it while I sat in the kitchen, knitting. One of the haulers was so touched to see me doing that and mentioned, " My granny used to do that! I remember her sitting in her rocker. I love watching you, it reminds me of her. I know all about how you do needlepoint, I grew up with my granny, it's so beautiful." 
I didn't tell him I was knitting, not doing needlepoint...


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## Yamyam (Feb 25, 2013)

KateLyn11 said:


> Laughed when I read your post, I've been binge watching English tv, especially "Midsomer Murders" recently and then spent this past weekend at a paper crafting retreat. When I saw all the paper flecks on the floor, I thought to myself, "This floor is going to need a good hoovering when we are done." Then realized what I had done. Television and KP have changed my vocabulary, probably forever, as I find that more and more I am THINKING in words not commonly used in American English, but in English as spoken in other parts of the world. Adopting the word whinge was a conscious decision, just because I like the word. I use it almost exclusively with a friend who reads even more English novels than I do ( and with whom I went to England). But thinking "hoovering" just happens.
> 
> Re: OP, I appreciate precision in speech, but have to admit that I had heard the term "Fair Isle" used for all stranded work for years before joining KP and learning what true "Fair Isle" is. Though I did hear some use the term "fair isle style". So while I agree it is important to use the correct term, I am not going to get in a dither about it, figuring that
> others are where I was a couple of years ago. Generally, you don't know what you don't know, so until exposed to the correct information, you will use words in the same context or way you've learned them.


Yes, whinge is a great word - can you use it where you live without anyone knowing what it means (except your friend)


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## Julianna P (Nov 18, 2013)

Netcan2 said:


> I didn't tell him I was knitting, not doing needlepoint...


Because it didn't matter at all!! It is nice you could bring back such fond memories for him.


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## Parschwab (Apr 14, 2016)

I can see where he would think needlepoint. One points the tip into the yarn


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Parschwab said:


> Not sure where you are from but do you remember the commercial from kleenex when they acknowledged the fact that people called all tissue kleenex and did not mind as long as you threw the tissue in the garbage.


I don't remember it, but I love the punchline!! Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who used a tissue would do that? Not holding my breath waiting for the day.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Parschwab said:


> I can see where he would think needlepoint. One points the tip into the yarn


 :sm01: :sm02: :sm09:


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

I didn't know! I'll be more careful!


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## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

Well, I just picked up a book at a garage sale, "Stitch 'N Bitch Knitter's Handbook" this past Friday and was browsing through it last night. Guess what I came across--the culprit who's calling stranded knitting by the name of--you guessed it--Fair Isle. So I suppose we could put part of the blame on the Stitch 'N Bitch crew.


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

Elin said:


> Well, I just picked up a book at a garage sale, "Stitch 'N Bitch Knitter's Handbook" this past Friday and was browsing through it last night. Guess what I came across--the culprit who's calling stranded knitting by the name of--you guessed it--Fair Isle. So I suppose we could put part of the blame on the Stitch 'N Bitch crew.


Wow.... And that isn't the only mistake in her books....


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mea said:


> I found this article re the origins if fair isle knitting interesting. http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1427&context=tsaconf


Just read it. THANK YOU for posting it!!! :sm24: :sm24:


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## lovelandjanice (Aug 8, 2012)

I know it is a pet peeve of yours, but just be glad people are knitting and enjoying it.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> I have always thought of Stranded Knitting as the umbrella term that encompasses many styles including Fair Isle, Norwegian, Icelandic, etc. where more than one colour is used per row, with the second (or more) colours not in use for a particular stitch being carried (or stranded) across the back of the work. I hadn't thought of Intarsia being included in this group of styles as colour blocks are discreet and not carried across the other colours.


The umbrella term of Colorwork covers everything that isn't a solid colour. Stripes, intarsia, Fair Isle, Bohus, etc. 
Each technique/style has its individual origins, though most have probably been transmitted between knitters along shipping/fishing lanes in the past. 
Today's technology makes such transmission at the speed of fingers on keyboard and the speed of internet connections.


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## ParkerEliz (Mar 21, 2011)

Not so nuts, but then we all have our quirks, don't we?

Some just don't have all of the knitting methodologies memorized yet. I think i see the need for a flow chart.....


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

trish2222 said:


> I've banged on about it enough in the past so I'll confine myself to agreeing with your perfect and succinct response.


And the examples you showed were wonderful. Remember the source of that foray into Fair Isle and are we not glad we do not have that to contend with again!!


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## TSchnabel (Dec 8, 2014)

I am glad you posted this. I am from the East Coast and growing up, a Fair Isle sweater was a shetland wool yoke neck sweater. Very classic. Then I moved to Indiana and started machine knitting and everyone (including the dial on the knitting machine) call any pattern of 2 colors in one row, "fair isle." I was very confused at first!


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## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

choertt said:


> Whatever any of us call it, it is special and I wish I were more skilled in stranded,
> Fair Isle, intarsia, et al.


It's easier than one thinks. Give it a try. If you're willing to read this lengthy article/turorial on stranded knitting, here it is: http://www.craftsy.com/article/stranded-knitting-what-is-it


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## MommaCrochet (Apr 15, 2012)

Being new to knitting, I appreciate the education!


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## Betty2012 (Apr 24, 2012)

As in so many areas, we've become a bit lazy, and skip the finer points, I think . . . .


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

wendyinwonderland said:


> Interesting. How long are the really long European needles? Would like to try.


So, I went to the cellar, dug out my Phildar and Pingouin knitting needles and measured them.
Pingouin - pointiest plastic needle _ever_, and I wish I had its mate - 12 mm size almost as big as a US 17) - 50 cm / 19.5" long.

Phildar - metal needles various sizes - 39 cm / 15.25" long.

slick grey metal double pointed needles of various sizes - 40 cm / 15.75" long.

I _believe_ the reason for such long needles is the widespread method of knitting with one needle end tucked either under the arm or into a knitting belt or sheath. I've yet to try either method. One of my sisters-in-law (in Syria) knits with the speed of a machine-gun with one needle in her armpit; she _can_ knit with my circulars, but not at high speed.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Over the years I knit Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic, etc., plus, some of my own designs using different colors. The sweaters turned out well but I guess I didn't know what I was doing when I carried yarn on the back side and twisted it "just so." It sounds rather complicated now, but I managed quite well at the time with Vintage instructions, old-style needles and 100% wool yarn. The internet didn't even exist.


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## glofish (Nov 19, 2012)

nankat said:


> Here is a language pet peeve of mine. Healthy vs. Healthful. People say "That is a very healthy meal." "That is a healthy salad." "I am going to eat more healthy." No. It is Healthful all around. People for example, are healthy when they are not sick. I do try to eat healthfully. Full of Health.


We've gotten off the topic, but I just wanted to say that this is one of my pet peeves, too. Everything good for you is called "healthy", but it really should be "healthful". "Healthy" is a state of being, is it not? I think I am healthy and I hope that you are, too.


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## Grandma G. (Oct 29, 2012)

Glad this subject came up. As a Scot it always bothered me to have so much described as "Fair Isle" & I wonder how many people know that Fair Isle is an actual island off the coast of Scotland.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Grandma G. said:


> Glad this subject came up. As a Scot it always bothered me to have so much described as "Fair Isle" & *I wonder how many people know that Fair Isle is an actual island off the coast of Scotland.*


Not many, and that's a shame in this day and age of Google Maps. Fair Isle, UK


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

Elin said:


> Well, I just picked up a book at a garage sale, "Stitch 'N Bitch Knitter's Handbook" this past Friday and was browsing through it last night. Guess what I came across--the culprit who's calling stranded knitting by the name of--you guessed it--Fair Isle. So I suppose we could put part of the blame on the Stitch 'N Bitch crew.


Send that person to the sin bin immediately!


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Yamyam said:


> Yes, whinge is a great word - can you use it where you live without anyone knowing what it means (except your friend)


There are a few people in my area who are originally from the UK and Australia but most wouldn't have a clue.


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## wendyinwonderland (Dec 28, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I've seen this method online--for speed knitting.

I like working with long needles (for double pointed work in the round) because I don't have to worry about the stitches falling off. But I'm not used to this type.


Jessica-Jean said:


> So, I went to the cellar, dug out my Phildar and Pingouin knitting needles and measured them.
> Pingouin - pointiest plastic needle _ever_, and I wish I had its mate - 12 mm size almost as big as a US 17) - 50 cm / 19.5" long.
> 
> Phildar - metal needles various sizes - 39 cm / 15.25" long.
> ...


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

wendyinwonderland said:


> Thanks for the info. I've seen this method online--for speed knitting.
> 
> I like working with long needles (for double pointed work in the round) because I don't have to worry about the stitches falling off. But I'm not used to this type.


Long dpns?? How long?
up to 10" long / sets of multiple sizes

14"/4 needles, one size

There are plenty more from the shops in China, but many of the sellers don't put the length in the title, only way down in the description details. I never knew anyone who actually uses such long dpns.


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## valodwyer (Jan 12, 2013)

tetchy


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## trish2222 (May 13, 2012)

Montana Gramma said:


> And the examples you showed were wonderful. Remember the source of that foray into Fair Isle and are we not glad we do not have that to contend with again!!


Thank you and you're right - the battle scars are healing. :sm17: :sm09:


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## Squiter60 (Jan 19, 2013)

Not sure if your post is petty, personally I didn't see it that way. Must admit I didn't know, found your explanation very interesting. Love learning about the history of knitting.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I don't remember it, but I love the punchline!! Wouldn't it be nice if everyone who used a tissue would do that? Not holding my breath waiting for the day.


I just wish some people would use a tissue instead of sniffing, sniffing, sniffing. I am so tempted to offer them a tissue to use but I would not dare. I could imagine the response I would get from some. I always throw a small box of tissues into my basket when I go shopping. Great for holding over your nose when forced to stand behind a heavy smoker in the checkout queue. Smokers do not realise that non smokers can detect the smell of tobacco on their clothes and it can be very stressful if you are allergic to tobacco smoke.


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## choertt (Sep 18, 2011)

Palenque1978 said:


> It's easier than one thinks. Give it a try. If you're willing to read this lengthy article/turorial on stranded knitting, here it is: http://www.craftsy.com/article/stranded-knitting-what-is-it


l

Thank you for that encouragement. When I get my Christmas decorations out I will post a picture of a stocking that I made many years ago that has 2 colors in some rows and a bit of Intarsia. The knitting is awful, but I was too inexperienced to be intimidated by turning a heel and floats that were too long among other things. I have learned much since then thanks to friends who knit and crochet and people, like you, who keep us learning and growing.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

I have some long double points (sets of 4 needles, each about 9 or 10 inches long) that I used for the yokes of Icelandic and other sweaters that were knit in the round. I remember being glad to find them available some 40 years ago since they were a lot easier to use than circulars -- i.e. dealing with the cables squirting out from my work. I was never a big fan of long straights (more than 10 inch) or circulars but I've used both in certain situations.


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## YarnStalker (May 30, 2011)

I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but, the latest edition of Vogue Knitting has articles about Shetland knitting's history.


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## jillyrosemary (Mar 15, 2015)

Being particular about accurate terminology is not "nuts," nor is it petty. Having been a writer and editor for much of my career, I get a bit "teechy" about a lot of misused terminology, and people sometimes think I'm "petty." Standards are standards and need to be respected. And I still care about the people of Aleppo and all the other horrible things going on in the world. (Also, I didn't know this--I don't knit Fair Isle, or stranded, or intarsia because I'm not that ambitious a knitter, but I'm glad to have learned something new today.)


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

I like to be precise, so that is good to know. I did not see the other post on this. I have wondered what the difference between stranded and Fair Isle is. I don't think I'll bother changing all the names I've given my files to stranded though. Thanks for the info.


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## valodwyer (Jan 12, 2013)

when i wrote tetchy earlier it wasnt meant as a criticism i was merely trying to establish if teechy was a colloquialism or not, sorry if it wasnt self explanatory.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

valodwyer said:


> when i wrote tetchy earlier it wasnt meant as a criticism i was merely trying to establish if teechy was a colloquialism or not, sorry if it wasnt self explanatory.


I believe we Americans (at least, where I live) say "touchy", meaning that a person is overly sensitive, especially about certain things. Is that what you intended to convey? Maybe both terms are colloquialisms.


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## Julianna P (Nov 18, 2013)

So, if we are going to be very specific about the term Fair Isle, we need to verify the garment was knitted in the round and limited to five or fewer colors according to the Wikipedia definition. I also have to wonder if it can truly be fair isle if it wasn't knitted on the Island of Fair. Is a contemporary pattern that used more colors or longer runs of color still Fair Isle if it only uses two colors at a time and is knit in the round?

"Fair Isle is a traditional knitting technique used to create patterns with multiple colours. It is named after Fair Isle, a tiny island in the north of Scotland, that forms part of the Shetland islands. Fair Isle knitting gained a considerable popularity when the Prince of Wales (later to become Edward VIII) wore Fair Isle tank tops in public in 1921. Traditional Fair Isle patterns have a limited palette of five or so colours, use only two colours per row, are worked in the round, and limit the length of a run of any particular colour.[1]"


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

In the U.k the word touchy means the same as where you live ,perhaps English ancesters came to live in your area when they got to the U.S


Elder Ellen said:


> I believe we Americans (at least, where I live) say "touchy", meaning that a person is overly sensitive, especially about certain things. Is that what you intended to convey? Maybe both terms are colloquialisms.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Have you ever heard of being "tetched in the head" -- meaning, slightly crazy, or, at least, different from the others?


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## martyr (Feb 15, 2011)

impatient knitter said:


> I cannot comment on whether you are "nuts or not," because I don't have enough information to make a diagnosis, and I'm not a psychiatrist anyway.
> 
> But, it has always been my understanding that the primary difference between fair isle and, say, intarsia, is that Fair Isle consists of only two colors per row, whereas, intarsia can be several colors, each of which is carried along on a bobbin. Perhaps that is what you are referring to as "stranded?"


No,intarsia is definitely not stranded - the colors are never carried across the work. Stranded knitting, of what ever kind, carries the threads across the whole row, and intarsia the yarn stays just where it is used - hence the need for multiple bobbins to pick up the main color or what ever is next.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

trish2222 said:


> Thank you and you're right - the battle scars are healing. :sm17: :sm09:


Yes, they are not worth worn as badge of honor or courage considering the source, lol! I find forgiving easier than forgetting, though I did not get trounced, just never once responded to my inquiries.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

valodwyer said:


> tetchy


Thank you. I knew there was _something_ wrong with the other spellings, but couldn't remember the right one. :sm12:


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

martyr said:


> No,intarsia is definitely not stranded - the colors are never carried across the work. Stranded knitting, of what ever kind, carries the threads across the whole row, and intarsia the yarn stays just where it is used - hence the need for multiple bobbins to pick up the main color or what ever is next.


And why Intarsia can't be done in the round without a lot of fiddling. The yarn ends up at the end of the section and normal knitting in the round you begin at the beginning of each section


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

darowil said:


> And why Intarsia can't be done in the round without a lot of fiddling. The yarn ends up at the end of the section and normal knitting in the round you begin at the beginning of each section


If one is adept at knitting backwards, intarsia in the round is less onerous. But however you do it, you still have to untangle once in a while, because the yarns must be twisted where the colours meet.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

valodwyer said:


> when i wrote tetchy earlier it wasnt meant as a criticism i was merely trying to establish if teechy was a colloquialism or not, sorry if it wasnt self explanatory.


I don't know if it's a colloquialism or not, but I understood it - perhaps from a lot of reading younger than now. I don't remember anyone actually using it in day to day speech, but I live in a largely French-speaking city. 
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=tetchy
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tetchy


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Knitted by Nan said:


> I just wish some people would use a tissue instead of sniffing, sniffing, sniffing. I am so tempted to offer them a tissue to use but I would not dare. I could imagine the response I would get from some. I always throw a small box of tissues into my basket when I go shopping. Great for holding over your nose when forced to stand behind a heavy smoker in the checkout queue. Smokers do not realise that non smokers can detect the smell of tobacco on their clothes and it can be very stressful if you are allergic to tobacco smoke.


Smokers are allowed to light up in a supermarket?? I don't remember that to ever have been permitted here or in NYC. Now, there's almost nowhere smokers are allowed to light up in Montreal. Not at outside terrasses of restaurants/bars. Not in sporting events/stadiums/arenas. Not in theatres/movie houses. Not on any mode of public transit, including taxis. Not even at the amusement park! Well, there are a few corners of the amusement park where smokers are permitted to pollute their lungs - out of the way corners.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Smokers are allowed to light up in a supermarket?? I don't remember that to ever have been permitted here or in NYC. Now, there's almost nowhere smokers are allowed to light up in Montreal. Not at outside terrasses of restaurants/bars. Not in sporting events/stadiums/arenas. Not in theatres/movie houses. Not on any mode of public transit, including taxis. Not even at the amusement park! Well, there are a few corners of the amusement park where smokers are permitted to pollute their lungs - out of the way corners.


We have virtually no where know either. Means walk past air conditionig vents with signs saying no smoking and a collection of smokers,puffing away. Still I guess less smoke than if smoking inside. Just recently banned in any outdoor eating area (had been allowed to smoke outdoors). Not allowed to smoke in a private car if children in the car. 
I find it interesting seeing the change in public attitude over the decades. When the first restrictions came in most people said it was terrible and smokers had a right to smoke if they wanted. And non smokers agreed. We refused to have smokers smoke in our house when we got married 33 years ago. My MIL (a non smoker) was disgusted and insisted that we had an ashtray for guests. Well it never was used so she wasted her money. 
When the last restrictions came in even smokers agreed that it was right ( though they miss not having a smoke with a meal they realise that it is right as a general rule).


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

I can remember when almost everyone smoked and there were few, if any, restrictions. For whatever reason, they did not smoke in church but they did in some theaters. If ash trays were available (and they were -- almost everywhere) smokers lit up. Gradually, ash trays disappeared and smoking was restricted in certain places. Laws were passed, etc. Now, we seldom see anyone smoking. I was surprised to see a cigarette butt along the road, near our house, the other day. "Who on this earth left that?" We used to sweep them up like autumn leaves.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Elder Ellen said:


> I can remember when almost everyone smoked and there were few, if any, restrictions. For whatever reason, they did not smoke in church but they did in some theaters. If ash trays were available (and they were -- almost everywhere) smokers lit up. Gradually, ash trays disappeared and smoking was restricted in certain places. Laws were passed, etc. Now, we seldom see anyone smoking. I was surprised to see a cigarette butt along the road, near our house, the other day. "Who on this earth left that?" We used to sweep them up like autumn leaves.


When my darling was still smoking, he felt no shame at dumping the overflowing ashtray from the car wherever it was parked, even in our own back yard. I cringed every time, but he wouldn't hear of dumping it into a trash container, even if it was stone cold. Now, he's the first to complain about anyone smoking nearby.


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## choertt (Sep 18, 2011)

This has been an interesting thread. I've enjoyed the main subject as well as the tangents.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Smoke of any kind is deadly to me, cannot count the times I have gotten bronchitis and 4 times led to pneumonia. It kills my sinus. No one is allowed to smoke in my home or my vehicles. The forest fires always bring on the awful cough, pain in the face and so on. Years ago there were 3 of us out of 29 in my Ladies Club that did not smoke, no one smokes now. 4 of 6 siblings smoked, two have passed, one still smokes even though in remission from cancer, sis with the lung removed has quit, only because the cancer forced it on her for being able to breath. What a treat to have all businesses and restaurants smoke free. We use to leave if someone lit up around the kids and myself. After several sit down meals became take out, we just quit eating out for a few years.


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## jodymorse151 (Sep 14, 2014)

Julianna P said:


> I think it is like Xerox and Google, the original meaning gets lost and it becomes a generic term. I can see how it would be frustrating but life is too short to get upset.


AMEN! While we are listing generics, Kleenex is another example. I am sure if it is your heritage you get a bit bent out of shape but OH MY! So many other things to rant about!


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

When the brand name goes generic, the company is usually delighted; however, when they get blamed for a competitor's failed product, the original company is quick to make disclaimers.


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## dribla (Nov 14, 2011)

I was always told by my mum that it was fair isle, gee I didn't know I was not doing it. Still..... I'll probably always call it that but gee I don't think it will matter will it

Di


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## CharleenR (Feb 21, 2012)

You are fortunate in having been to the Shetland Islands multiple times. We have traveled to Lerwick once, 10 years ago. I have been fascinated with true Fair Isle knitting and am enjoying reading this topic.


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## MissNettie (Dec 15, 2012)

You are not nuts. You set us straight on this subject and I appreciate it. Thank you. I have done a good bit of stranded knitting in the past and was not clear on what to call it. MN


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

Well we all can't be as smart as you. Us beginners are just learning!


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

No, I don't think so. Only the "snobs" will call you on it.


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

I am allergic to cigarette smoke and so many other things. I am so glad that my husband quit (after a heart attack). I would complain, but it did no good until his hear attack. He now complains when he is around smokers, he says "It stinks" :sm09: No smoking in my house.


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

KathrynJG said:


> I am curious what KPers think of my quirky petty annoyance and teasing :sm02: request. Here it is:
> 
> I see lots of posts on KP referencing the knitting as Fair Isle when it is not at all Fair Isle but Stranded Knitting.
> 
> ...


You are being informative about a subject near and dear to you.


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes I think you are nuts :sm02: :sm02:


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

The photo of the sweater is Faire Isle to me.


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