# About Magic Loop



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

New to KP and love the way everyone tries to help! My question is, what is the purpose of Magic Loop? I learned (self taught) over 50 years ago to Knit but never heard of magic loop. Due to raising 2 children and working I haven't picked up my knitting needles for about 50 years. Now that I have retired I'm enjoying Knitting again, starting all over learning new things it has been wonderful. I have heard so much about the need to learn magic loop from so many of you. I have watched YouTube videos, but I haven't been able to understand why. I know this is a crazy question, but I need to wrap my brain around this so I can move forward and learn how to do this with a purpose. Thanks to all of you for making this a great resource for all that loves being in the craft world.


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## cainchar (Dec 14, 2012)

I am determined to learn magic loop to avoid DPN's (double point needles) on small circular items such as socks, mittens, hats etc.. I just can't manage DPN's effectively. I'm sure others will have other reasons.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

I will be no help. I can do it but see no real purpose. I use DPN when I need to knit in the round.


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## G-Lee (Jan 23, 2011)

It's for knitting in the round without using double-pointed needles. It is my go-to method for just about anything knit in the round.


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## MarilynVPR (Jan 14, 2012)

Magic loop is a technique which replaces the need for double pointed needles for most projects. You set it up with half the stitches on each point and bend the cord in the middle. There are several good you tube videos which picture it well, but basically you pull the back needle out and begin knitting. It sounds much more difficult than it really is! Good luck!


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

I wanted to try it because I was getting ladders (no matter how I tugged etc) with dpns and Magic Loop does not show ladders. Also, I do a lot of knitting on long journeys in the car and was forever dropping one of my dpns. It took a bit of getting used to Magic Loop but I am enjoying using it now.


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## AdeleRM (May 20, 2012)

There is no NEED to learn magic loop, or 2 circs, or any of the other methods if you don't want to, and are happy with whatever you're using. I started using circulars when I was doing some of my knitting on public transportation - didn't have to worry about dropping a needle and having it roll away from me. I gave away most of my straight needles, because I like the circulars, even for knitting flat. And I like double points for small circles. I've tried other methods and CAN use them, but don't particularly like to. As the saying goes: to each, his own.


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## tmvasquez (May 7, 2013)

I can't get the hang of it so I'm still using dpns. I would like to figure out magic loop so I can do 2 at a time socks. Oh well, I hope you have better luck then I have.


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## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

ML is also my go-to for knitting small items both at the same time. Socks come to mind-- no "second sock syndrome" at this house. I also like that I can't drop a needle, even though I don't use public transportation. I'll be using it for mittens later this year-- got a request from DD#2 who is a teacher so I see mittens using my scraps.


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## christiehl (May 9, 2011)

yes I love it as I have never got used to dpn once you get the hang of it you will never go back


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

tmvasquez said:


> I can't get the hang of it so I'm still using dpns. I would like to figure out magic loop so I can do 2 at a time socks. Oh well, I hope you have better luck then I have.


Keep at it tmvasquez! I am not good with learning new techniques but I persevered and it only took a couple of frustrating tries and then it clicked. Well worth learning.


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

I think most people who use Magic Loop will give you several reasons. I'll give you mine.

The cable between the needles holds the weight of your project and reduces the strain on your wrist, as opposed to straights.
You can work any size circle, closing top of hat, or starting toe of socks with the same set that you start your project with. No need to change.
I never have ladders when using Magic Loop as opposed to DPNs.
The two needles being connected by a cable means you can't drop a needle and lose it temporarily, or permanently. 
When you are interupted, you can push the stitches back onto the cable and not have to think about losing stitches.
This pertains more to them being interchangeables, but you can change out the needles, use end caps and use the needles on another project. 

I'm sure there are more.

1


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## ELareau (Nov 4, 2012)

I'm not able to use DPNs because of the way I hold my needles when I knit, so I am excited to learn magic loop. My LYS is having a magic loop class at the end of the month, and then a sock class using magic loop early next month. So happy to finally be able to knit socks !!


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## Krwabby (Aug 18, 2011)

christiehl said:


> yes I love it as I have never got used to dpn once you get the hang of it you will never go back


Ditto - never got the hang of DPNs and now don't need to!


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## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

Welcome to KP. I am not sure that I get it either; so thnx for the question. :sm02:


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## marthat (Jun 23, 2016)

ML is the reason I began knitting again. After a hiatus of many years I saw a friend knitting socks the ML way and I was ready to start again. Then I found all the positive reasons that have already been stated. I too use only circular needles for all my projects as I find them much easier to use. Knit however you want, just make it enjoyable.????


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

I use Magic Loop because I can't use the 3-4 needles.


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


No. And its not just to avoid DPNs, either. I think if you go to Cat Bordhi's videos you'll get a clear understanding of what you can make happen on a long circular needle. I'm a math dummy but I fell in love with her method of knitting in a Figure 8! I in fact started with learning how she casts on for a shawl and then read more (I purchased some of her books) and immediately switched to knitting 2 socks at the same time. Almost 100 pairs of socks later I decided to learn other knitting methods and am still interested to the extent that I watched a video for knitting double brioche this morning and became interested enough that I plan to learn that, too!

Mama used to tell me "Curiosity killed the cat" but it hasn't hampered me from being inquisitive! I still want to know and will take a shot at anything in the craft fields because LEARNING gives both satisfaction and skill. NEVER be fearful of TRYING! Get yourself a 40" circ and TRY a Mobius shawl, then 2-at-a-time SOCKS!


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## ilmacheryl (Feb 3, 2013)

gigi 722 said:


> I will be no help. I can do it but see no real purpose. I use DPN when I need to knit in the round.


 My feelings exactly! I just knit a pair of fingerless mitts using magic loop just to prove that I can do it. However, I put the needle away & promptly started a pair of socks with my trusty bamboo DPNs. I guess I should try two circs next for knitting in the round.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I never use 2 circulars as I was always picking up the wrong needle and then it was all on one needle anyway. I don't understand having to learn to use ML. Just pick up the needles and start knitting - pull out a lenght of cord on the ends so that the points meet. It requires a long cable. I cannot afford to buy all the different lengths of the same size needle, and using magic loop means I only need one, and I can do any project from tiny items right up to large ones.


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## sritchie171 (Jul 3, 2013)

I googled "how to do magic loop knitting" and found craftsy.com Demystifying the Magic Loop. Try that!


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

ilmacheryl said:


> I guess I should try two circs next for knitting in the round.


My curiosity to learn how to do everything I come across inspired me to learn how to knit 2 socks at the same time on 2 16" circulars. I can do it but I don't actually enjoy it as much as ML so I think I'll try sockit2me's 12" needles when I get back to socks.

Hint - maybe valuable to someone out there - is when knitting 2AAT on 16" circs, you need both a metal and a wood needle and you knit each section with that needle ONLY. In other words, never touch metal to wood nor wood to metal.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

JoLink said:


> New to KP and love the way everyone tries to help! My question is, what is the purpose of Magic Loop? I learned (self taught) over 50 years ago to Knit but never heard of magic loop. Due to raising 2 children and working I haven't picked up my knitting needles for about 50 years. Now that I have retired I'm enjoying Knitting again, starting all over learning new things it has been wonderful. I have heard so much about the need to learn magic loop from so many of you. I have watched YouTube videos, but I haven't been able to understand why. I know this is a crazy question, but I need to wrap my brain around this so I can move forward and learn how to do this with a purpose. Thanks to all of you for making this a great resource for all that loves being in the craft world.


Are you already familiar with working projects such as hats in the round?

Magic loop is simply one method of knitting in the round. If you have another way you like and are comfortable with you don't "need" to learn to use magic loop. I found dpn difficult to use and I am always and forever dropping a needle. When I did my first project in the round I didn't have dpn in the size I needed but did have the tips and a long cable in my interchangeable set. I picked up using magic loop fairly easily, knitting in the round would have been much harder for me with another method.

I saw in a later post you compared it to joining crochet stitches to work in the round and I think that's a fair comparison to any of the ways to work knitting in the round.


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

GrumpyGramma said:


> I saw in a later post you compared it to joining crochet stitches to work in the round and I think that's a fair comparison to any of the ways to work knitting in the round.


I disagree because knitting starts with actual stitches cast on whereas crochet usually starts with chains, plus some argue whether the cast on stitches comprise the first row or do you have to actually knit a row before you count as a row. In crochet one makes the appropriate number of chains and then either work stitches into the chain or join into a circle and work specific stitches. As an example, I've started some afghan blocks by chaining 4, then I join in a circle and single crochet 8 sts, join again and continue to make a puff stitch in each single crochet.

I hope you're not offended, GG, but I just don't see any comparison in the methods used to begin crocheted or knitted items.


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## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

Thank you all! I really appreciate each of you!
So from what I understand magic loop is only used when you knit in the round, I hope I'm not so thick headed that I have that wrong.
Again Thanks!


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

tatesgirl said:


> I disagree because knitting starts with actual stitches cast on whereas crochet usually starts with chains, plus some argue whether the cast on stitches comprise the first row or do you have to actually knit a row before you count as a row. In crochet one makes the appropriate number of chains and then either work stitches into the chain or join into a circle and work specific stitches. As an example, I've started some afghan blocks by chaining 4, then I join in a circle and single crochet 8 sts, join again and continue to make a puff stitch in each single crochet.
> 
> I hope you're not offended, GG, but I just don't see any comparison in the methods used to begin crocheted or knitted items.


Offended? Why should I be? I interpreted the question as it's a way of joining to work in the round. That's all. In that way I see the two as similar. I think I understand what you're saying and see a good point made. If at all possible I will use fsc or fhdc or fdc to start a piece and then either work flat or join to work in the round but basically that's the same as joining or not joining a chain. Also, when knitting in the round you come back to the start and continue on but you don't have to slip stitch it's more like working a crochet spiral. I think we probably have different takes on the same thing. We all see things just a little differently from others. When I ask a question I like to see different POV in the answers, it helps me sometimes to get a better grasp while I sometimes look at some responses and think, OK but I don't understand and don't worry about. It's all good.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

JoLink said:


> Thank you all! I really appreciate each of you!
> So from what I understand magic loop is only used when you knit in the round, I hope I'm not so thick headed that I have that wrong.
> Again Thanks!


First, you're not thick headed. Second, YES! you got it.
I like magic loop because it keeps me from having more needles of the same sizes in different lengths or trying to figure out where that other dpn from the set is hiding. You'll find what works best for you.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Our yarny names for techniques in both knitting and crochet have too many that include the word 'magic'.
*Magic Ball* = ball of yarn scraps tied (or otherwise joined) together

*Magic Loop* = method of knitting *all* diameters of knitted tubes on one longish circular needle - needs modern, flexible cable, and tip-to-tip length of 32" minimum. It wasn't really an option before the development of more flexible cables. My personal favourite cables are ChiaoGoo.

*Magic Circle* = aka sliding ring, adjustable ring, and probably other names - a method of beginning _either_ crochet _or_ knitting in-the-round, as for a flat doily/motif/blanket/rug/bottom of a basket/ etc..

I'm sure I've missed a few other 'magic' terms.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

tatesgirl said:


> My curiosity to learn how to do everything I come across inspired me to learn how to knit 2 socks at the same time on 2 16" circulars. I can do it but I don't actually enjoy it as much as ML so I think I'll try sockit2me's 12" needles when I get back to socks.
> 
> Hint - maybe valuable to someone out there - is when knitting 2AAT on 16" circs, you need both a metal and a wood needle and you knit each section with that needle ONLY. In other words, never touch metal to wood nor wood to metal.


Umm ... the material from which the needle tip is made does have an effect on gauge. I didn't believe it, until I happened to knit two identical squares with the same ball of yarn, but on two different material needles. Oops! My experience: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-229483-1.html


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## ozzyjaye (Oct 25, 2016)

I have knitted with DPNs for years and never much used circular needles. I taught myself ML just before Xmas, just because I wanted to learn it. I have made 4 pairs of mittens since Xmas and will probably never go back to DPNs again. I find it faster and I'm not always dropping needles. I have literally have had needles flip across the room on me, can't happen with ML. A complete convert.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

JoLink said:


> New to KP and love the way everyone tries to help! My question is, what is the purpose of Magic Loop? I learned (self taught) over 50 years ago to Knit but never heard of magic loop. Due to raising 2 children and working I haven't picked up my knitting needles for about 50 years. Now that I have retired I'm enjoying Knitting again, starting all over learning new things it has been wonderful. I have heard so much about the need to learn magic loop from so many of you. I have watched YouTube videos, but I haven't been able to understand why. I know this is a crazy question, but I need to wrap my brain around this so I can move forward and learn how to do this with a purpose. Thanks to all of you for making this a great resource for all that loves being in the craft world.


As I see it, the main reason for Magic Loop is that I can knit any "round" item, no matter what the size using a long circular needle. In the past items such as socks required DPNs, then came along circular needles that were great for knitting items in the round, if the needle was not too long for the item. 
I have even been known to knit a 3 stitch I cord...I do admit DPNs make I cord easier. The other main reason for Magic Loop is the fact that I can and do knit two socks on the same long circular needle (40" is my favorite length)... or two fingerless mitts, boot cuffs, all two at a time on that same needle.

I now can make two socks, mitts, boot cuffs, etc. the very same length since I am working both at the same time, on the same circular needle.


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## NanaFran (Apr 9, 2011)

I learned to knit more than 60 years ago, and magic loop hadn't been "discovered" back then. I have tried it and can do it, but don't like it--so just continue to do the things that I am comfortable with. I love circular needles and use them almost all the time, especially the little ones for making socks. There are no "knitting police," so knit however you want!


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

So much easier than dpn's just love it and I too have been learning after retirement ( 3 years ago yesterday...yay) . I too learned how to knit over 50 years ago and I am still learning, it is amazing how many techniques there are out there that we did not know about back then but now with the Internet and others contributing their knowledge, it's amazing!


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## Cherspradlin (Nov 4, 2015)

Always loved dpn's and when I tried ML, I hated it. Then you guys said it was because of the stiff cable on my Boyes. I just ordered red and black cables and one set of cubic needles from Handsome Fibers. They should be here any day now and I can't wait to try ML on these flexible cables. I'll let you know what happens!


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## susanmjackson (Feb 7, 2011)

I use magic loop for doing items two at a time. Socks are great this way, no second sock to worry about and both are done exactly the same. I also use it for sweater sleeves, again done at the same time, increases are at the same place on both.


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

After reading your posts it looks like I now have my New Year Challenge......socks 2 at a time using Magic Loop. I have recently mastered Magic Loop so now for the two socks. You guys are great for pushing me into learning new techniques. Wish me luck! Thanks to all KPers


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## ValCC76 (Sep 27, 2016)

BarbaraBL said:


> I wanted to try it because I was getting ladders (no matter how I tugged etc) with dpns and Magic Loop does not show ladders. Also, I do a lot of knitting on long journeys in the car and was forever dropping one of my dpns. It took a bit of getting used to Magic Loop but I am enjoying using it now.


Same here..I find much much easier for travelling, not as fiddly as dpn's, but I have no problem doing either. It's whatever is comfortable for you- it's really just eliminating the need for 3 or even 4 dpn's.


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## SAM Q (Jan 8, 2017)

I HAVE TO SPEND MOST OF MY UP-TIME ON MY LEFT HIP, WHICH MAKES KNITTING WITH REGULAR NEEDLES ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.
AS MY HANDS WEAKEN, MANIPULATING THE YARN REQUIRED WHEN USING THE MAGIC LOOP, REALLY LIMITS THE AMOUNT OF KNITTING I CAN DO.
THE SOLUTION, DPN'S. JUST USE 3 INSTEAD OF 4 OR 5.
CAST HALF YOUR STITCHES ONTO NEEDLE 1, THE OTHER HALF ONTO NEEDLE 2. HOLD THE NEEDLES PARALLEL WITH TIPS NEXT TO EACH OTHER, THEN TAKE EMPTY NEEDLE 3, KNIT INTO 1ST CAST-ON, WITH YARN FROM LAST CAST-ON AND WORK ALL STITCHES FROM NEEDLE 1 ONTO NEEDLE 3. THEN, AGAIN KEEPING NEEDLE 3 AND 2 PARALLEL, TAKE NOW EMPTY NEEDLE 1 AND KNIT ALL STITCHES FROM NEEDLE 2 ONTO NEEDLE 1. THEN FROM NEEDLE 3 ONTO NEEDLE 2, ETC, ETC.
THIS ELIMINATES ALL THE YARN MANIPULATION REQUIRED BY THE MAGIC LOOP, MAKES IT LESS LIKELY TO TWIST CAST-ON WHILE JOINING, EASIER TO SEE AND CORRECT ERRORS (TRAVEL FORWARD THEN UNDO STITCHES FROM TOP TO ERROR), EASIER TO COUNT ROWS, ETC. YOU ALSO CAN AVOID LOSING STITCHES OFF THE ENDS OF YOUR DPN'S AS YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE EXTRA NEEDLES TO KEEP AN EYE ON. YOU ONLY NEED TO KEEP NEEDLES CLOSE TO EACH OTHER FOR THE FIRST SEVERAL STITCHES. TO STORE UNFINISHED PROJECT GET ALL STITCHES BACK ONTO 2 OF THE NEEDLES, FASTENING THE NEEDLES TOGETHER WITH TWO RUBBER BANDS, ONE AT THE END OF EACH ROW, TRAPPING THE KNITTING ONTO THE NEEDLES.
HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE OUT THERE.
SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPS BUT LEANING ON MY LEFT ELBOW MEANS I ONLY HAVE MY RIGHT HAND AVAILABLE FOR THE KEYBOARD.
GOOD LUCK.


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## elliekluge (Feb 11, 2015)

JoLink, welcome aboard!! I have knit for over 50 years. There are so many new yarns, needles and techniques available that it will make your head spin. Experiment. Have fun. I'm still a bit timid about trying new things, but force myself to try 2-3 a year. This year I'm going for 6! I don't like all the "new things" I try (both supplies and techniques) but some of them are great. Ask lots of questions, try youtube for some of the answers, and above all, ENJOY!


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## SAM Q (Jan 8, 2017)

I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN KNITTING FOR OVER 60 YEARS, WITH TIME OUT FOR HAVING KIDS AND BEING A SINGLE PARENT.
AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE I HAVE MY DOG, MY CAT, AND MY DISABILITIES.
THANK GOD FOR MY KNITTING, SO I CAN STILL DO SOMETHING, AND THIS SITE, SO I CAN TALK TO SOMEONE WHO HAS ONLY 2 FEET.


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## arnie54 (Nov 19, 2016)

These are the only knitting needles I use for flat and circular. I absolutely hate sewing seams (hats,cowls etc). Knit Freedom (Liat Gat) has awesome videos for magic loop. Make sure you watch the "how to purl" vid as well. It won't be before you are asking yourself " why didn't I learn this sooner". Anything new is always a challenge. Isn't that great! Well good luck to you.


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## arnie54 (Nov 19, 2016)

These are the only knitting needles I use for flat and circular. I absolutely hate sewing seams (hats,cowls etc). Knit Freedom (Liat Gat) has awesome videos for magic loop. Make sure you watch the "how to purl" vid as well. It won't be long before you are asking yourself " why didn't I learn this sooner". Anything new is always a challenge. Isn't that great! Well good luck to you.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

It was created for those who either cannot or willnot learn to knit with double pointed needles. There are far more in the latter category than the first. It is more attuned to the instant gratification need than expediency. DPN are really quite simple.


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## alexdoc (Feb 11, 2016)

Can't do magic loop and still love my dpn's.


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## Mitch (Apr 4, 2011)

I now use magic loop in place of dpns for most things......


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> I think most people who use Magic Loop will give you several reasons. I'll give you mine.
> 
> The cable between the needles holds the weight of your project and reduces the strain on your wrist, as opposed to straights.
> You can work any size circle, closing top of hat, or starting toe of socks with the same set that you start your project with. No need to change.
> ...


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## marinda (Nov 9, 2015)

Always struggled with DPNs. Only recently learned Magic Loop and find it so much easier. Tried for how long to knit a ball starting with 6 stitches on dpns, just couldn't do it until I tried Magic Loop. For anything small I will definitely only do Magic Loop


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## Ms Sue (Jun 5, 2013)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


No, it isn't a method to join at all, but a method to knit without using dpn's. I like it because you can knit any size project on your long cable. So much easier than having to have just the right size circular needle for a hat or sock (or use dpn's). It is easy once you get the hang of it.


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## Reinharv (Apr 8, 2016)

I don't like DPNs as I find the needles always getting in the way. Magic Loop is used for smaller projects such as socks, mittens, hats when you want to knit in the round to avoid DPNs and there is no correct size circular to use. Short circulars are hard to knit with anyway. If a project is called for casting on say 30 stitches and to then knit in the round, then you use a circular needle say at least 24" length or even longer, cast on 30 stitches and then count 15 stitches and bend the cord there to pull the cord through to have 15 on one part and 15 on the other and then join in the round and knit.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

There are several things that I like about Magic Loop.

First, I find it easier to manage one circular needle instead of using multiple DPNs. Not only do I not have to wrestle with all those needles, there is no danger of any needles falling on the floor and rolling under the furniture.

Second, I use only the one long circular needle for the entire project, even when the pattern decreases to only a few stitches. The only reason to change needles would be if the pattern requires a change of needle size, and I use interchangeable needles to simplify that switch-- the cable doesn't change, I just screw on the different-size tips.

Third, when I finish my knitting session, I can slide the stitches toward the center of the cable with no worries that the stitches will fall off the needles.

I agree that Liat Gat's (Knit Freedom)videos on Magic Loop are the best, with Staci's (VeryPink) as a close second. I learned from both of those videos.

Liat's: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=kntting+freedom+magic+loop&view=detail&mid=F96B227C7091F30D29F0F96B227C7091F30D29F0&FORM=VIRE

Staci's: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=very+pink+magic+loop&view=detail&mid=E3D2356079049FBD6F4CE3D2356079049FBD6F4C&FORM=VIRE


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## barbara97801 (Feb 20, 2011)

I have the same problem as you do. I can't wrap my hear around it either. Tried and Tried and nada. I use 2 sets of circs for socks to avoid magic loop but like you I've gotta learn it so that I can use the needles I Bought Especially for Magic Look.


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## barbara97801 (Feb 20, 2011)

I mean magic loop


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## gardenpoet (Jun 24, 2016)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


I am new to knitting and just made my first hat using ML after making my very first hat ever using DPNs, so maybe I can help make it simple to understand the use of ML. As you know, you use a circular needle (the two needles with the cable in between) when you want to make a tube of any kind, such as a hat a sleeve or a sock. The cable between the two needle allows you to join the rows and keep knitting in a continuous loop. The thing is, when the tube gets smaller and smaller, such as a hat at the top, it won't fit on the circular needles you started on. That's when you transfer the stitches to DPN-- so your circle can be small and still be able to stitch. ML replaces the need for DPNs here. The ML is simply the same circular needles but with a long cable between them that you pull out between stitches at strategic points so the circular rows of knitting can be small, and you can still knit with the needles. In between where you have pulled the cable out -- or not really out, but away from the stitches -- are the stitches that can be quite close together thanks to the flexibility of the cable, allowing the circumference to be what your project calls for.

You can tell by all the answers that different people like different methods. I am glad I tried ML because I found it to be intuitive and work better for me. I am still clumsy enough with my stitching that I kept dropping stitches off the ends of the DPNs or dropping the DPNs altogether when moving from one to the other, etc.

I am learning most of my knitting from videos and find that the ones on Very Pink to be most helpful. Here is one she did for Magic Loop: http://verypink.com/2012/10/17/simple-magic-loop/


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## Krwabby (Aug 18, 2011)

gardenpoet said:


> I am new to knitting and just made my first hat using ML after making my very first hat ever using DPNs, so maybe I can help make it simple to understand the use of ML. As you know, you use a circular needle (the two needles with the cable in between) when you want to make a tube of any kind, such as a hat a sleeve or a sock. The cable between the two needle allows you to join the rows and keep knitting in a continuous loop. The thing is, when the tube gets smaller and smaller, such as a hat at the top, it won't fit on the circular needles you started on. That's when you transfer the stitches to DPN-- so your circle can be small and still be able to stitch. ML replaces the need for DPNs here. The ML is simply the same circular needles but with a long cable between them that you pull out between stitches at strategic points so the circular rows of knitting can be small, and you can still knit with the needles. In between where you have pulled the cable out -- or not really out, but away from the stitches -- are the stitches that can be quite close together thanks to the flexibility of the cable, allowing the circumference to be what your project calls for.
> 
> You can tell by all the answers that different people like different methods. I am glad I tried ML because I found it to be intuitive and work better for me. I am still clumsy enough with my stitching that I kept dropping stitches off the ends of the DPNs or dropping the DPNs altogether when moving from one to the other, etc.
> 
> I am learning most of my knitting from videos and find that the ones on Very Pink to be most helpful. Here is one she did for Magic Loop: http://verypink.com/2012/10/17/simple-magic-loop/


Excellent explanation!! I too like very pink's videos and explanations


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

I can knit 2 or 4 socks at a time with Magic Loop. Where else can you do this? I would never go back to straights or double points to do the same job. Go ahead and use them to do several projects and you will never go back.


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## Moziemo (Jan 9, 2017)

I am new to KP and so happy to have found it. I start my membership with a question: What are the "ladders" to which you refer? I am also relatively new to knitting and crocheting and have never heard the term.


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## Krwabby (Aug 18, 2011)

Moziemo said:


> I am new to KP and so happy to have found it. I start my membership with a question: What are the "ladders" to which you refer? I am also relatively new to knitting and crocheting and have never heard the term.


when you switch from one needle to the other when knitting in the round, the stitch at the switch point looks too big or 'wonky', tension not as good as your other stitches.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

Moziemo said:


> I am new to KP and so happy to have found it. I start my membership with a question: What are the "ladders" to which you refer? I am also relatively new to knitting and crocheting and have never heard the term.


Rather than describe it, here's a link with a photo:
http://blog.yarn.com/tuesdays-knitting-tip-preventing-ladders/

This link tells how to help avoid ladders with DPNs. I never get them with Magic Loop, as long as I snug up the first two stitches. Even if I forget to snug the stitches, the ladders are barely noticeable.


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## Queen Wisteria (Dec 23, 2016)

When you knit one sock at a time when, if ever, do you complete it's mate?

The magic loop prevents the "one sock syndrome".

One can knit two socks at a time, and you are done 

You have a pair of socks to wear, or give away.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


With Magic Loop 1/2 stitches are cast on, cable pulled out and brought around to cast on second 1/2 of stitches for a hat/sock/mitt/sleeve ... or any item you choose to knit in the round. Pull needle tip from the side that holds the first half of the stitches, and begin knitting into the stitch that was the last cast on, being very careful to not have the stitches twisted on the cable. This joins first stitch to last... 
As the knitting continues, you have your knitting in the middle with a loop of cable on each side of the work.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

BarbaraBL said:


> After reading your posts it looks like I now have my New Year Challenge......socks 2 at a time using Magic Loop. I have recently mastered Magic Loop so now for the two socks. You guys are great for pushing me into learning new techniques. Wish me luck! Thanks to all KPers


Not only 2 socks, but anything you want to be the same size... mitts, boot cuffs, sleeves are so much easier to "match" when working 2 at a time.


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## cookie68 (May 5, 2012)

gigi 722 said:


> I will be no help. I can do it but see no real purpose. I use DPN when I need to knit in the round.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Swiss Miss KT (Jan 21, 2013)

I love magic loop. Especially great for making two at a time items as socks, mitts, sleeves etc. Saves time and making sure that both are increased, decreased and such at same time without thinking about it when making individually. No need to figure each and also less manipulation than with 4/5 DPNs.


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## Swiss Miss KT (Jan 21, 2013)

I love magic loop. Especially great for making two at a time items as socks, mitts, sleeves etc. Saves time and making sure that both are increased, decreased and such at same time without thinking about it when making individually. No need to figure each and also less manipulation than with 4/5 DPNs. Easy once you get the hang of it.


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## riversong200 (Apr 20, 2014)

I use it when I don't want to mess with switching to DPs in the middle of a project (like a hat) or when I'm not in the mood to mess with DPs.


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## Nanamel14 (Aug 4, 2016)

I love love the magic loop, I use it for whatever i can.....for me it's way better than using dpn's


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

Magic loop is another trick in your arsenal of knitting techniques. It is worth trying to learn, even if only to determine whether you like it or not. I have recently learned it from YouTube (God bless it) and I am trying to make myself use it more often. I learned how to use two circulars, and my go-to is dpns, although dropping one is always an issue. I think that once you learn them all, you can pick and choose which to use, how and when. There is no right or wrong. It's all about what works for you.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

I put learning magic loop on my list of things to learn this year, but then it has been on my list for years. I did learn to use two circulars, but that was more trouble than it was worth. I learned on dpns, I am proficient with them, I don't get ladders, I don't get second sock syndrome. So right now, my main reason for learning magic loop is because I believe you shouldn't reject something out of hand without out giving it a try. I am glad there are different methods and tools to accommodate everyone. I just wish sometime that some magic loop devotees would dial it back a notch. Some are so besotted that they can be a bit snarky with those of us who haven't embraced the "religion" of magic loop.


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## rkr (Aug 15, 2012)

I have 70+ years of knitting: today's techniques and tools far outshine The Old Ways. Here're responses to a compilation of replies:
_and Magic Loop does not show ladders.

I never have ladders when using Magic Loop as opposed to DPNs.

Even if I forget to snug the stitches, the ladders are barely noticeable._
Ladders - the reason that these aren't created in ML is this-the last st on the 'back' needle gets reduced down to the size/diameter of the cable (not a needle tip) when pulling snugly and eliminating a larger gap between that st & the 1st on the front needle, so the yarn between becomes part of the back needle's last st after releasing from the needles & blocking. Blocking doesn't always eliminate this ladder when the excess length (though very short it's still there with DPNs) isn't needed by sts to form the correct diameter.
This evens-out the st size overall. It's usually adequate to snug up just the 1st st; a second st snugging may help but it's really more about the size/diameter of the cable on the last st of the back needle.

_
It requires a long cable. I cannot afford to buy all the different lengths of the same size needle, and using magic loop means I only need one, and I can do any project from tiny items right up to large ones.

I like magic loop because it keeps me from having more needles of the same sizes in different lengths

The thing is, when the tube gets smaller and smaller, such as a hat at the top, it won't fit on the circular needles you started on. That's when you transfer the stitches to DPN-- so your circle can be small and still be able to stitch. 
_
Won't fit? What??? For these reasons I use only 60" (Chiaogoo Red Lace) needles: why purchase every length in every size when 1 needle worked for all. I use mine for 3 - 4 st iCords up to hundreds of sts in a row or round. That's more $$ available for STASH!!!

_I use magic loop for doing items two at a time. Socks are great this way, no second sock to worry about and both are done exactly the same.

One can knit two socks at a time, and you are done

making two at a time items as socks, mitts, sleeves etc. Saves time 
_
I've never been able to figure out this thinking: knitting 2 of anything takes twice as long as knitting one..... Perhaps there are some who prefer to begin another project rather than knitting the second sock or mitten, but when we knit 1AAT, we get to the 2nd one in half the time as spent on 2AAT.

I do also laugh about the "time spent shifting sts in ML". We do it once (or technically twice) per round as opposed to the 4X w/DPNs. And don't worry about keeping the sts in the center/away from the tips of DPNs. Also the time spent getting the yarn untangled from the DPN tips. Yuck...
Sorry if this reads like a Us vs. Them camp but everyone's viewpoint is different. Work w/what's comfortable but at least try before rejecting.

eta: I often use Traveling Loop as well.


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## martyr (Feb 15, 2011)

tmvasquez said:


> I can't get the hang of it so I'm still using dpns. I would like to figure out magic loop so I can do 2 at a time socks. Oh well, I hope you have better luck then I have.


That is why I learned it. All new techniques are fiddly in the beginning, and when you have been knitting for a long time you forget the learning curve. There fore it is important to know why. You aren't going to stick with it until you've mastered it if it's not important to you. A new technique will slow you at first,and given the need to butynew or newish equipment [there are used stuff out there on ebay, and here on the classified sections] and practice is not what everyone likes.

There are intermediate steps that I think help - they helped me. Just trying a circular needle, then learning traveling or single loop - I still don't know why they call it magic loop - double loop would be much clearer IMHO! I have enjoyed learning all these new techniques since joining the forum, but that's me. If you like the way you do it and see no reason to change, don't let anybody sway you. We all made mittens , socks and hats with 2 needles or DPNs for a long time. :sm08:


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

rkr said:


> I have 70+ years of knitting: today's techniques and tools far outshine The Old Ways. Here're responses to a compilation of replies:
> _and Magic Loop does not show ladders.
> 
> I never have ladders when using Magic Loop as opposed to DPNs.
> ...


Thanks RKR, a good review. I have not used Traveling Loop... .but love the ability to knit 2 at a time of anything using Magic Loop. I can never keep track of how many rows/rounds I have just completed and trying to match a second sock to the first would be a total joke for me.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


Yes, it's for knitting a small circumference in the round if you don't like to use dpns. For a large circumference you can use a circular needle to knit in the round but you need at least 80 stitches depending on the length of the cable between the two tips!


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## KnitNorth (Mar 7, 2013)

Well how timely! I'm about to work on the Anemone Hat which says to use the Magic Loop method. So, I bravely went to Google and looked at a youtube video. Went to bed last night thinking I'll never get this. 
Now today, I see your posting & read through the comments you rec'd on the first page, which simplified what I saw in the video. I plan on getting started later today.
Thanks for posting!


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

I had the same question. I was happily knitting with DPNs and saw no reason to buy that long circular needle so I could knit socks... UNTIL a friend of mine told me she had learned how to knit socks with the magic loop method and was excited that she was happy to say she wasn't having 2nd sock syndrome. So I went ahead and bought that long circular needle and the rest is history. I do have to admit that I still use my DPNs for part of the sock knitting process, though. So don't throw your DPNs away!


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## Butterfly53 (Jan 2, 2017)

jmcret05 said:


> I think most people who use Magic Loop will give you several reasons. I'll give you mine.
> 
> The cable between the needles holds the weight of your project and reduces the strain on your wrist, as opposed to straights.
> You can work any size circle, closing top of hat, or starting toe of socks with the same set that you start your project with. No need to change.
> ...


THANK YOU, jmcret05! I also have been wondering what is the point of those two mickey mouse ears hanging off the sides of the cable--why not just have one big loop and stretch it out when you get there? This question even after watching some of the instructions on YouTube (nobody says "why", just "how"). You now have given me a better perspective, and perhaps a reason to consider trying this odd looking process. Again, THANK YOU! :sm09:


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## k9mom (Dec 16, 2016)

SamQ: your situation sounds like the mirror image to mine. I very recently joined KP, and read this before any other emails. Recently switched from crochet to knitting,and I am becoming addicted. I hope you enjoy this lovely group as much as I do, and find relief from your challenges. 
Cheers,
Lora


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## ladybugdaydreams (Jan 2, 2017)

I actually rather like my DPNs, but after reading this thread I think I'll try magic loop again. It will prevent the problem I sometimes have: it's not ladders, it's my 1 year old pulling a DPN out of live stitches. He doesn't do it often, but it's enough to make you cry when it does happen.


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## Cookie1955 (Aug 10, 2015)

This weekend, I decided to dive in and learn it, as I want to learn to do socks. I like it much better than dpn's. I used some larger needles and scrap yarn and started a sock pattern to see if I could do everything the pattern involved. In addition to learning magic loop, I learned a new cast on method, and new ways to increase stitches. It was pretty exciting, and once I get my current project done, I'm going to dive into sock knitting!!


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## alexdoc (Feb 11, 2016)

Whether you knit one sock and then the second one or both at the same time, you spend the same amount of time knitting. Either way, it's the same number of rows and stitches that have to be knit.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Reinharv said:


> I don't like DPNs as I find the needles always getting in the way. Magic Loop is used for smaller projects such as socks, mittens, hats when you want to knit in the round to avoid DPNs and there is no correct size circular to use. Short circulars are hard to knit with anyway. If a project is called for casting on say 30 stitches and to then knit in the round, then you use a circular needle say at least 24" length or even longer, cast on 30 stitches and then count 15 stitches and bend the cord there to pull the cord through to have 15 on one part and 15 on the other and then join in the round and knit.


So...how is there no "ladder" where the split of stitches happen?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Cherspradlin said:


> Always loved dpn's and when I tried ML, I hated it. Then you guys said it was because of the stiff cable on my Boyes. I just ordered red and black cables and one set of cubic needles from Handsome Fibers. They should be here any day now and I can't wait to try ML on these flexible cables. I'll let you know what happens!


Umm ... if you still have your Boye NeedleMaster tips, you might like to upgrade their rather stiff cables to the ChiaoGoo SMALL. Full details at:

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-366359-1.html
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-318879-1.html
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-235057-1.html


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

beanscene said:


> Yes, it's for knitting a small circumference in the round if you don't like to use dpns. For a large circumference you can use a circular needle to knit in the round but you need at least 80 stitches depending on the length of the cable between the two tips!


Eighty stitches? With 'Magic Loop', you can knit in the round with as few stitches as you wish. Pinky-finger for gloves - ~6 stitches. Beginning a doily - 4 stitches.

Were all my knitting needles to vanish (house fire?), I would not buy double pointed needles, straight needles, or even interchangeble sets. I would buy one ChiaoGoo Red Lace 40" circular in each needle size I want to use. That would be all I would ever need to knit anything I can imagine.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

alexdoc said:


> Whether you knit one sock and then the second one or both at the same time, you spend the same amount of time knitting. Either way, it's the same number of rows and stitches that have to be knit.


Yes, that's true, _but_ if you're doing a patterned sock, you only have to read each line (text or chart) once for both socks.

I discovered this when I was doing squares for a sampler blanket. Each square was made twice, once in each colour. When it finally dawned on me to cast on both squares at the same time on the same (circular) needle, the actual knitting and completion of both squares was a tad faster than when doing them completely separately and reading each pattern stitch line twice.


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## Krwabby (Aug 18, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Yes, that's true, _but_ if you're doing a patterned sock, you only have to read each line (text or chart) once for both socks.
> 
> I discovered this when I was doing squares for a sampler blanket. Each square was made twice, once in each colour. When it finally dawned on me to cast on both squares at the same time on the same (circular) needle, the actual knitting and completion of both squares was a tad faster than when doing them completely separately and reading each pattern stitch line twice.


Jessica-Jean - your replies are always so RIGHT ON. I wish I had half your knowledge and ability to communicate it!!!


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## vicki5 (Apr 5, 2014)

I cannot catch on to the magic loop method. I have watched videos and tried & tried. Finally, I decided that I had tried for the last time. As much as I dislike double points, it seems that's what I'm stuck with!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

imalulu said:


> So...how is there no "ladder" where the split of stitches happen?


When you begin the new 'needle', the last stitch of the old is not on a needle tip; it's on the much smaller cable. Thus, any slack is taken up. I didn't believe it until the current hat I'm making. DK yarn, 4.5mm needle. I have the 'loop' always at the same place, but I cannot detect any laddering.

I bought a pair of lovely thrummed mittens that were - too obviously - knitted on double pointed needles. When I use dpns, I always put the last three stitches knitted onto the empty needle before continuing. Never any ladders. Those mittens show what_can_ happen when the stitches always remain on the same needle - visible 'breaks' between needles, i.e. ladders.


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Were all my knitting needles to vanish (house fire?), I would not buy double pointed needles, straight needles, or even interchangeble sets. I would buy one ChiaoGoo Red Lace 40" circular in each needle size I want to use. That would be all I would ever need to knit anything I can imagine.


 :sm02: :sm02: :sm02: That about sums it up for me, also!!!


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## sritchie171 (Jul 3, 2013)

vicki5 said:


> I cannot catch on to the magic loop method. I have watched videos and tried & tried. Finally, I decided that I had tried for the last time. As much as I dislike double points, it seems that's what I'm stuck with!


What don't you get? What are you going to try to make? Maybe we can help.


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## molsmum (May 15, 2016)

I have been knitting and crocheting for over 65 years and had never heard of ML until I joined KP. I intend trying it before my hands get too old for knitting!!! LOL LOL


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## Nib (Feb 12, 2014)

I found it easy to learn magic loop. I watched utube videos. The trick is to use a very long cable.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

vicki5 said:


> I cannot catch on to the magic loop method. I have watched videos and tried & tried. Finally, I decided that I had tried for the last time. As much as I dislike double points, it seems that's what I'm stuck with!


I disliked it too. 
Do you knit hats in the round?
Do you _have_ a really flexible cable on your circular? Stiff cables make it far too difficult to bother.
Is the circular at least 32" - measuring tip-to-tip? Shorter are too fiddly, at least for me.
If so, knit the hat as usual, until you reach the point where you need to switch to dpns for the rest of the decreases. Switch instead to the longer circular and s_l_o_w_l_y work magic loop until the end. After doing that once, I haven't bothered with the dpns any more.


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


You've got it. It is a method of knitting in the round to avoid having to seam the sides. Other methods are using dpn's or 2 circular needles. Of course some prefer knitting flat and seaming. No need to learn unless you want to or absolutely hate seaming.


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## SJudy (Jan 1, 2017)

I do two at a time. No more single socks (or mitts) or socks that don't quite match.


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## yanagi (Jul 7, 2013)

I teach best by example. You're knitting a hat. You cast on 115 sts. Knit in the round until you start decreases, now, you don't have enough sts to knit comfortably. So, magic loop to the rescue. Instead of trying to stretch the stitches around the needle, just pull a loop of the cable out of the stitches and leave it sticking out. Knit. This is modified magic loop. Full on magic loop you'd have two loops, one at half and one at the other half. This way you have half the stitches to work on and half waiting for you. When you reac the end of one half just pull out a loop and keep going. This makes it easy to knit in the round on a small project. Socks, caps, mittens, mitts and gloves are so much easier. Good luck.

PS: check YouTube for videos.


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## Sandy4cats (May 8, 2014)

tmvasquez said:


> I can't get the hang of it so I'm still using dpns. I would like to figure out magic loop so I can do 2 at a time socks. Oh well, I hope you have better luck then I have.


Liat Gatt has excellent videos on learning 2AAT socks using ML at http://www.knitfreedom.com


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## Arachne (Apr 15, 2013)

I was so very clutzy with DPN's; when I joined KP I read about magic loop and it was awesome for me  Always learning something new here!


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

alexdoc said:


> Whether you knit one sock and then the second one or both at the same time, you spend the same amount of time knitting. Either way, it's the same number of rows and stitches that have to be knit.


I tend to disagree simply because when knitting two at a time... I never have to jot down what I did on sock 1, since I immediately go ahead and do it on sock 2. I really do not count rounds at all. I do work toe up socks, much friendlier for getting a perfect fit for myself...and others whose cardboard template I have in my possession. I love the Fish Lips Kiss Heel for short rows (even on other projects this short row technique is perfect). Always use a 40" circular for 2 at a time. Once while knitting baby socks, I did 4 at a time...and it worked just great. 
It is indeed the same number of stitches either way...however with DPNs unless you knit one sock inside the other, you have to at least remember exactly what you did on one sock in order to repeat for same size sock on the second sock. Otherwise you have 1 lonely sock hanging out waiting for a match. 
Even if you are one of those folks who knit sock 1 on one set of DPNs and a sock 2 on a second set of DPNs... all that time spent picking up, arranging needles/yarn between those 2 sets of DPNs takes way more time than simply slipping stitches around that long cable.
Magic Loop may not be for everyone... and that is fine with me. It is important to know that Magic Loop technique is a much more efficient method for knitting 2 socks at the same time that will always be the same size, without having to take notes, or count rounds, etc.


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## immunurse (May 2, 2011)

JoLink said:


> So is magic loop used for joining a circle in the round, similar to making a chain and joining it in crochet?


Exactly! I like both Magic Loop or using 2 circs. My biggest problem with dpns is that inevitably I accidentally grab the wrong needle when I get to where I switch needles and "voila" I pull a needle out of all of its "active" stitches. Very aggravating.

The other advantage of ML or 2 circs is that if you put your work down for weeks (or longer) you don't get the visible row of larger stitches due to them having sat on the needle for so long (or having to tink the last round) since the cable is of a smaller diameter than the tips.

Just remember, there are no "knitting police" - do what you enjoy and what works for you. Happy knitting!


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

BC said:


> You've got it. It is a method of knitting in the round to avoid having to seam the sides. Other methods are using dpn's or 2 circular needles. Of course some prefer knitting flat and seaming. No need to learn unless you want to or absolutely hate seaming.


And, it may be wise to mention here, that some garments NEED seams for various reasons...to stop biasing or twisting; to give structure to a heavy jacket or coat (i.e. the Einstein Coat); to keep shoulder seams from sagging, etc.

Just wanted newbies to know... seamless is not ALWAYS best.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Eighty stitches? With 'Magic Loop', you can knit in the round with as few stitches as you wish. Pinky-finger for gloves - ~6 stitches. Beginning a doily - 4 stitches.
> 
> Were all my knitting needles to vanish (house fire?), I would not buy double pointed needles, straight needles, or even interchangeble sets. I would buy one ChiaoGoo Red Lace 40" circular in each needle size I want to use. That would be all I would ever need to knit anything I can imagine.


 :sm24:


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

vicki5 said:


> I cannot catch on to the magic loop method. I have watched videos and tried & tried. Finally, I decided that I had tried for the last time. As much as I dislike double points, it seems that's what I'm stuck with!


Do you know what it is about Magic Loop that is a problem for you? If it's just not being able to catch on to how it all works, you might need someone to work with you so that you see the steps in person. Maybe you know another knitter who could show you?

Also, the first few rows are tricky. Once you get by them, it's so much easier.

If you have trouble moving the stitches around, it might be your cable. You need a thin, flexible cable that's 32-40 inches long. As countless others have said, the Chiaogoo Red Lace work great for Magic Loop.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

alexdoc said:


> Whether you knit one sock and then the second one or both at the same time, you spend the same amount of time knitting. Either way, it's the same number of rows and stitches that have to be knit.


But there is no measuring or counting of rows to be sure that both socks are the same. That's a real plus


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## PatriciaDF (Jan 29, 2011)

The only problem I have encountered with magic loop is that you MUST have a very flexible cord on your circular needle. It just doesn't work very well with a stiff cord. Otherwise, no problem.


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## MunchkinMommy (Dec 3, 2016)

I like that ML allows you to knit 2 socks at a time: you avoid "second sock syndrome" and have identical socks when you finish.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Artbarn said:


> Do you know what it is about Magic Loop that is a problem for you? If it's just not being able to catch on to how it all works, you might need someone to work with you so that you see the steps in person. Maybe you know another knitter who could show you?
> 
> Also, the first few rows are tricky. Once you get by them, it's so much easier.
> 
> If you have trouble moving the stitches around, it might be your cable. You need a thin, flexible cable that's 32-40 inches long. As countless others have said, the Chiaogoo Red Lace work great for Magic Loop.


I only have KnitPicks needles for magic loop knitting, and they work well for me.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

chickkie said:


> I only have KnitPicks needles for magic loop knitting, and they work well for me.


I'm sure there are lots of good circular needles for ML, Chickie. Chiaogoos are the only really good needles I've had experience with.


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## lovelandjanice (Aug 8, 2012)

Good luck. I tried to learn it a couple of times and keep going back to my DP's. They are much easier for me.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Artbarn said:


> ... Also, *the first few rows are tricky*. Once you get by them, it's so much easier. ...


I do Magic Loop for the tops of my 1898 Hats, and did it on the Windswept cowl I just finished, at least as long as there were too few stitches to fit my circular. I have yet to do it from the start of a a project - like a doily, but - having mastered manipulating the tips and cable while working down to 7 stitches to finish the hats, I think it'll be easier for me now. What threw me off it the first few times I tried it, was working from the cast-on. If you begin doing it from a larger base, it seems to be easier to grasp.


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## nittineedles (Apr 14, 2011)

I was using magic loop before it had a name. I only use it when I can't find the right size DPNs. I don't like using DPNs but I like magic loop even less. I find it fiddly and bothersome.


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## PauletteB (Mar 10, 2011)

I have not been interested in the magic loop, I like working with dpns.


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## maryjane eisele (Dec 25, 2016)

I can't get the technique of the magic loop. I use dpn a lot but I have a hand work pillow that holds my project stable so I don't drop needles or stitches. The pillow also elevates my work so I am not looking down and hurting my neck. Using a pillow makes knitting effort more ergonomic and way less stressful on shoulders and wrists.


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

Having just taken a ML class on Saturday, I'm fresh into keeping at it... I don't think it's that hard, don't overthink it... but I ended up knitting a hat regular circular, cause I didn't have the points for my cable in the size I needed for bulky yarn.
You have to have a flexible cable, remember to push your already knit row cable back to home base, pull the back forward to knit the next row, and just remember to knit the first stitch, and then in the second stitch, pull your yarn tight, to keep the ladders away.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

maryjane eisele said:


> I can't get the technique of the magic loop. I use dpn a lot but I have a hand work pillow that holds my project stable so I don't drop needles or stitches. The pillow also elevates my work so I am not looking down and hurting my neck. Using a pillow makes knitting effort more ergonomic and way less stressful on shoulders and wrists.


OK. I just have to ask. What is your knitting style?

I knit with stitches moving from left to right with my left hand managing the yarn = continental style.
I have never - since learning in 1954 - had stress in either shoulders or wrists. If I could only knit with a pillow ... I'd be unable to knit anywhere but at home. I do a _lot_ of my knitting everywhere away from home.


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## Hannelore (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't have any desire to use the magic loop method of knitting in the round as I personally find it a slower method for ME but I do know that others think it is the only way to go. We all have our own method of making things in the round.


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## Marvelouz (Oct 21, 2013)

I love the magic loop! Like you I had not knitted for a long, long time -- maybe 40 years. I started back after visiting a yarn shop while on vacation. The lady there convinced me that I could knit a scarf like one on display. I bought all the yarn, etc. and since I didn't have any needles with me, I asked for the proper needle, and she showed me a circular needle of the proper size even though I was to knit the scarf flat. I am forever grateful that she sold me that needle since I love to knit as my husband drives, and the circular is wonderful in the car -- and in my chair -- no more lost needles! 

Started making hats for the kids, and socks, and sweaters -- such fun! But soooo much easier using the magic loop to knit in the round. With magic loop, you don't need dpn's, but you also don't need so many circulars with different lengths of cable. Magic Loop to the rescue!!!!!


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## polly p (Jun 7, 2015)

I think Magic Loop is much better than DPN for small amounts of stitches. I am fine with DPN for things like socks but find them tricky and unwieldy for small amounts of stitches.


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## prithipals7 (Dec 23, 2016)

I Luv the magic loop technique. I magic loop anything knitted in the round. I find I knit my projects a lot faster. It took me a couple of rounds to get the hang of it but once I did I found I like magic looping a lot better than the dbl pls.


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## martyr (Feb 15, 2011)

Artbarn said:


> There are several things that I like about Magic Loop.
> 
> First, I find it easier to manage one circular needle instead of using multiple DPNs. Not only do I not have to wrestle with all those needles, there is no danger of any needles falling on the floor and rolling under the furniture.
> 
> ...


Another thing I liked about Liat's class on magic loop, is that she covers troubleshooting some of the things that people have trouble with or find awkward at first. Like pulling the cords through -how to rather than pushing the needle. Plus the techniques are all in short chunks you can repeat until you get that step. It's the next best thing to an in-person class. Plus close up clearly focused video - always. :sm24:


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

martyr said:


> Another thing I liked about Liat's class on magic loop, is that she covers troubleshooting some of the things that people have trouble with or find awkward at first. Like pulling the cords through -how to rather than pushing the needle. Plus the techniques are all in short chunks you can repeat until you get that step. It's the next best thing to an in-person class. Plus close up clearly focused video - always. :sm24:


I agree. I spent my career teaching on both the high school and corporate levels. In my opinion, she's an excellent teacher.


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## JacqueDooley (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm hooked on Magic Loop knitting. I watched a tutorial on tube to get the basic mechanics. What a difference it made. I love circular needles even for flat knitting. They are less cumbersome and bulky. The ML is so handy and easy. Now I am knitting my first pair of socks, very exciting and fun. I tried the DPN method and couldn't seem to get the hang of how to hold the needles so the wouldn't can out of the stitches. I too love to knit as we travel down the road.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

martyr said:


> Another thing I liked about Liat's class on magic loop, is that she covers troubleshooting some of the things that people have trouble with or find awkward at first. Like pulling the cords through -how to rather than pushing the needle. Plus the techniques are all in short chunks you can repeat until you get that step. It's the next best thing to an in-person class. Plus close up clearly focused video - always. :sm24:


Fortunately, I found ChiaoGoo Stainless Steel (both Lace Tip and interchangeable needles) with the Red Twist type cable that is flexible and yet just stiff enough to push the cable through the stitches. 
I am sometimes an overly enthusiastic knitter...and have pulled the cable clean out of at least half the stitches... Grrrr! I did that enough times that I now am much more inclined to push my cable through the stitches.


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## hufflepuff envy (Feb 18, 2016)

The magic loop is a way to use a circular needle to knit something in the round that is far smaller in circumference than the length of the circular needle. Double point needles can be used to knit in the round but as so many have mentioned they tend to slip out and drop all the stitches. The magic loop is the portion of the cable or flexible part of the circular needle that sticks out with no stitches on it. It gets it out of the way leaving just the right length of working cable so that the stitches are not stretched out of gauge. It is done with just one circular needle but some have preferred to use two circular needles with half the stitches on each and a marker to show where to switch to the other needle. It lowered my stress level when I started using the magic loop. I use it on socks and sweater cuffs. However double pointed needles still work just fine.


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

alexdoc said:


> Whether you knit one sock and then the second one or both at the same time, you spend the same amount of time knitting. Either way, it's the same number of rows and stitches that have to be knit.


I agree, there are no short cuts, no magic fast forward button. However, some folks _think_ it's faster and that's all they need. It may well be that it's faster for some because that's the way they've always done it, but for the majority of people, it doesn't work out that way.

I could say that my way is faster, and quite frankly, it is for me, but it wouldn't be true for people with bigger feet than mine, or people who can't use my in-the-round method.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Marvelouz said:


> ... magic loop, you don't need dpn's, but you also *don't need so many circulars with different lengths of cable.* Magic Loop to the rescue!!!!!


Which in turn means money that might have been spent on many different sizes/lengths of circulars can instead be spent on yarn. :sm17: :sm24:


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## martyr (Feb 15, 2011)

JTM said:


> Fortunately, I found ChiaoGoo Stainless Steel (both Lace Tip and interchangeable needles) with the Red Twist type cable that is flexible and yet just stiff enough to push the cable through the stitches.
> I am sometimes an overly enthusiastic knitter...and have pulled the cable clean out of at least half the stitches... Grrrr! I did that enough times that I now am much more inclined to push my cable through the stitches.


Well what I was taught was to grasp all the knitting firmly in one hand - so bunch it up onto the 2 needles if possible. You have have only one long loop at this point, find the end that has the needle that needs to moved into ready position, and pull through from the cable - slides easily and quickly. I think this is easier to do once you have seen it done!

But you're right I have pulled the wrong end, when I was less practiced at magic loop. You just have to rethread that back needle. It has always amazed me that if you stop pulling the needle loops don't go anywhere - just slide them back on the needle. :sm17:


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

The purpose of MAGIC LOOP is to allow the knitter to work with a looped circular ndl as if with straight ndls and accomplish a circle.
A longer ndl that usually used is usually needed. I personally use the 45" because that is what I have in the size I use most often.
You loop the cord in the middle of the row, knit half the stitches, push the unworked stitches up onto the left point, pull out the cord with the right point; and knit the other half.
Knit
Push
Pull
Knit
It's very easy to learn and can save you from dropped dpns/sts. :sm17:


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Well I finally tried and I am back to my 4-5 dpns. Seems it took me longer to pull and push and I doubt it would be a quick learning experience for me. Some are so darn good at it, but not me and I do not devote too much time to something I don't need to replace. Just me, not discouraging anyone else, give it a go! Sure glad I just borrowed a long cable needle and didn't spend the money for it to stay curled up in the drawer. The thought of doing ML on thumbs of mittens was too much for this knitter.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Well I finally tried and I am back to my 4-5 dpns. Seems it took me longer to pull and push and I doubt it would be a quick learning experience for me. Some are so darn good at it, but not me and I do not devote too much time to something I don't need to replace. Just me, not discouraging anyone else, give it a go! Sure glad I just borrowed a long cable needle and didn't spend the money for it to stay curled up in the drawer. The thought of doing ML on thumbs of mittens was too much for this knitter.


Sorry you found it so hard to do. Did you have a good needle with a very flexible cable, or just one from a box store? The cable must be very flexible to use it for ML. And if it was still curled up, then that would be another distraction from using it properly. It is like any new technique, it takes a while to get used to doing it. I have been doing this for so long now that it is second nature, but I am not a speedy knitter and I really don't care if it takes a bit longer to push the stitches up on the needles, as it is nice not to have to measure length or count rows, and when one is done they are both done.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

immunurse said:


> Exactly! I like both Magic Loop or using 2 circs. My biggest problem with dpns is that inevitably I accidentally grab the wrong needle when I get to where I switch needles and "voila" I pull a needle out of all of its "active" stitches. Very aggravating.
> 
> The other advantage of ML or 2 circs is that if you put your work down for weeks (or longer) you don't get the visible row of larger stitches due to them having sat on the needle for so long (or having to tink the last round) since the cable is of a smaller diameter than the tips.
> 
> Just remember, there are no "knitting police" - do what you enjoy and what works for you. Happy knitting!


I did that so many times , now I just let loose and the appropriate needle starts to fall alone, easy to grab. No matter what method we all get our items done, unless in time out, and I am one of those that loves to get on to the next project. Only so many more hours in my life and I have lots to try!


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

chickkie said:


> Sorry you found it so hard to do. Did you have a good needle with a very flexible cable, or just one from a box store? The cable must be very flexible to use it for ML. And if it was still curled up, then that would be another distraction from using it properly. It is like any new technique, it takes a while to get used to doing it. I have been doing this for so long now that it is second nature, but I am not a speedy knitter and I really don't care if it takes a bit longer to push the stitches up on the needles, as it is nice not to have to measure length or count rows, and when one is done they are both done.


Hi chickkie, very flexible cable, but not my cup,of tea! We will have to get together and visit while we knit! Like many things if I don't want to spend the time on it, or is not super important, I just revert back. Now , like going to computer charting at work, I had to learn it, I did and carried on. I'm not 100% cow in same stall, but close, lol! Enjoy the sunshine, sunshine brings us below zero weather.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Hi chickkie, very flexible cable, but not my cup,of tea! We will have to get together and visit while we knit! Like many things if I don't want to spend the time on it, or is not super important, I just revert back. Now , like going to computer charting at work, I had to learn it, I did and carried on. I'm not 100% cow in same stall, but close, lol! Enjoy the sunshine, sunshine brings us below zero weather.


It has been fairly cool here this winter so far, cooler than normal and some that have lived here for years say that it is unusual. BUT there is no snow, no -30 degree temperatures and not a lot of rain. More rain this year but it will make for pretty desert flowers.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

chickkie said:


> It has been fairly cool here this winter so far, cooler than normal and some that have lived here for years say that it is unusual. BUT there is no snow, no -30 degree temperatures and not a lot of rain. More rain this year but it will make for pretty desert flowers.


The lure of a flowering desert, hmmmmmmm?!


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