# Joining lace weight yarn



## DonnaOk (Mar 8, 2013)

Wondering how you join lace yarn in the most inconspicuous way. I'm not really happy with the I do it.

Thanks for your input


----------



## EllenCrafts (Apr 17, 2012)

How are you joining? Have you tried russian join?


----------



## Cindylu (Nov 6, 2011)

I really like the Magic Knot for joining lace or Dk yarn, not so much on bulky or worsted weight . You can find a video if you google it.


----------



## DonnaOk (Mar 8, 2013)

Thanks ladies

Russian join is difficult with such light weight yarn...at least for me.

I have been using the magic knot but it always ends up leaving a bump no matter where it is


----------



## knit-faced (Feb 24, 2013)

Is it feasable to just overlay the new strand with the old strand, with the new strand end pointing to the left, while the old, depleted strand pointing to the right ...then you knit a few stitches double stranded and weave in the remaining tails. There is something on youtube. Good luck.


----------



## Belle1 (May 20, 2012)

If it is wool or alpaca I splice the two ends together by unspinning and respinning. I learned this from June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting -- this approach is NOT the spit splice. Actually, I use this on all my wools even 4-ply worsted because once you've spliced the wool you have a continuous yarn without any join. For lace work it is a must. When I work fine lace in cotton I use another technique.


----------



## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

if you are just wanting to join the same color and yarn together so you can continue knitting then I have had very good luck with the braided join, you have to use at least 5 or more inches but it works very well.... if you are needing to change color then its a bit different. You will need to wrap the new yarn around the old one and continue knitting and then weave in the ends...


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Belle1 said:


> If it is wool or alpaca I splice the two ends together by unspinning and respinning. I learned this from June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting -- this approach is NOT the spit splice. Actually, I use this on all my wools even 4-ply worsted because once you've spliced the wool you have a continuous yarn without any join. For lace work it is a must. When I work fine lace in cotton I use another technique.


Could you elaborate on your technique of unspinning and respinning? Do you just divide the plys (plies :?: ) of each end and then "braid" them back together? Thanks!


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Belle1 said:


> If it is wool or alpaca I splice the two ends together by unspinning and respinning. I learned this from June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting -- this approach is NOT the spit splice. Actually, I use this on all my wools even 4-ply worsted because once you've spliced the wool you have a continuous yarn without any join. For lace work it is a must. When I work fine lace in cotton I use another technique.


Could you elaborate on your technique of unspinning and respinning? Do you just divide the plys (plies :?: ) of each end and then "braid" them back together? Thanks!


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Oops, sorry for the double post -- got distracted by retired DH!


----------



## knit-faced (Feb 24, 2013)

Yeah ... gonna go lug out june hiatt (my knit bible) and she what she says about the " unspin and respin" ... pulled this out the other day and looked for "join new yarn" ... couldn't find, and don't remember how I stumbled onto "tying on" which is how it IS listed in the index ....


----------



## Belle1 (May 20, 2012)

When I splice yarn I do the following -- let's assume that I'm using a 2 ply lace weight (but the technique works the same regardless of the number of plies):

1. Separate the plies on the ends of the two pieces of yarn. Separate back about 2-3 inches. Notice while you are doing this the direction of the twist on the plies.

2. Now, using a sharp pointed device (I use the tip of my short embroidery scissors -- but you could also use a needle or something with a similar rigid point), at the end of each ply separate the fibers until they look "bush" like. Do this about 1" back. This has to be done carefully because as you are unspinning, you can easily separate the fibers from the whole ply. When you have done one ply, do each of the remaining plies. If you look at them when you are done at the end of each ply, the fibers splay out rather like having "a bad hair day".

3. Now, take 1 ply from each yarn, lay the two splayed-out ends over each other, dampen your fingers and sort of co-mingle the fibers together. Now carefully match the direction of the twist on the plies and twist the join to match the plies (what you are really doing is spinning the fibers from the two ends together) It is important that the twist you use matches the rest of the yarn ply.

4. Repeat this process for each strand of yarn. So, if you have a 2-ply yarn, you will do it twice. When you are done, the two yarns have been joined together at each ply, but the plies are probably separated and you have a gap between them. Now, remember the direction of the twist of the combined yarn when you first separated the plies. Now dampen the whole yarn (just dampen don't soak) the length of the area where you need to add in the new twist, and now carefully spin the two plies in the direction of the whole yarn. By dampening the wool, it helps raise the scales on the ply and when you twist, the yarn will hold the twist and will have the strength of rest of the yarn.

it is important to make sure that you twist the plies and then the yarn in the correct direction. I'm not a spinner, but you will notice that the twist of the plies is opposite the twist of the yarn -- just make sure that when you are reintroducing the twists they match the rest of the yarn (Spinners refer to this as an S-twist and a Z-twist).

I know all of this sounds complicated, but once you get the hang of the technique, it is quick to work, leaves no ends, no knots and it absolutely transparent. The spliced yarn has the same strength as the already spun yarn so when blocking you need have no fear about it coming undone. If you haven't used this technique before, I suggest that you practice it before trying to do it while knitting. A loftier wool is easier to splice than a very smooth wool.

Unlikel June Hiatt's description, I do NOT remove plies when doing a join -- I've found that I prefer to work with each ply and that when done well, the join does not change the character of yarn.

I hope I haven't bored or confused you. This isn't an easy technique to describe -- much easier to show.


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Thank you, Belle1, for your detailed directions -- I will bookmark this. I found a video that shows a similar technique, but just un-ravels one end of the yarn. Your technique would probably be stronger for a lace-weight yarn, but this one looks pretty good, too:

http://blog.shopmartingale.com/crochet-knitting/joining-new-yarn-in-knitting/


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

DonnaOk said:


> Thanks ladies
> 
> Russian join is difficult with such light weight yarn...at least for me.
> 
> I have been using the magic knot but it always ends up leaving a bump no matter where it is


Ditto! The bump is less noticeable, depending on location, than russian join. Russian join is workable in plied yarn. I don't know how it would work in s fine yarn such as lace wt.


----------



## Belle1 (May 20, 2012)

Msusanc -- I watched the video and this is what Hiatt explains in her book -- the real difference is that I actually unspin the individual plies and rather than "felting" by rolling back and forth, I spin only in the twisted direction and do this for all plies -- I don't shorten any of them. The split spice would be a faster way of doing 4+ plies of yarn, but personally I'm not convinced it is as strong. Thanks for sharing the video link -- it is a good place to start.


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Belle1 said:


> Msusanc -- I watched the video and this is what Hiatt explains in her book -- the real difference is that I actually unspin the individual plies and rather than "felting" by rolling back and forth, I spin only in the twisted direction and do this for all plies -- I don't shorten any of them. The split spice would be a faster way of doing 4+ plies of yarn, but personally I'm not convinced it is as strong. Thanks for sharing the video link -- it is a good place to start.


I agree your technique would probably be stronger.


----------



## Cathryn 2ed (Feb 1, 2011)

DonnaOk said:


> Wondering how you join lace yarn in the most inconspicuous way. I'm not really happy with the I do it.
> 
> Thanks for your input


Get a large eye sewing needle, something thinner than your tapestry needle and do the Russian join.


----------



## barcar (Jun 16, 2011)

I knit three stitches using both the old yarn and the new yarn. I do it where the lace isn't too open.


----------



## Olga-Marie (Apr 23, 2013)

What is a "magic knot" ? Am I missing something important ? I guess it is a way to make a knot in your knitting, but how ?


----------



## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

I use the magic knot. The Russian join is great for thicker wools.


----------



## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

YouTube has a couple of good videos. I need to watch each time I do the join.


----------



## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

PS Welcome! This is a great info/learning site.


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Olga-Marie said:


> What is a "magic knot" ? Am I missing something important ? I guess it is a way to make a knot in your knitting, but how ?


There are some YouTube videos on this. My favorite one is by janerichmonddesigns but I don't know to send the link. Just go to YouTube and search "magic knot yarn join".


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

Olga-Marie said:


> What is a "magic knot" ? Am I missing something important ? I guess it is a way to make a knot in your knitting, but how ?


There are some YouTube videos on this. My favorite one is by janerichmonddesigns but I don't know to send the link. Just go to YouTube and search "magic knot yarn join".

Oops, the dreaded double post.  please note it is 4:45 am and I haven't had my coffee yet!


----------



## MargieP (Apr 19, 2013)

I will give this a try too. I have read somewhere that this method works best with yarn of a high wool content, as the wool makes the yarn slightly 'sticky'. Have you found that too?


----------



## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

Great information.

What is the other technique you use for cotton?

Thanks.


----------



## marylin (Apr 2, 2011)

I felt the yarn together is if it part or all wool


----------



## clarkys (May 13, 2011)

A professional knitter told me to just tie an overhand knot, and pull it tight. Do this at the end of a row only. If knitting in the round, choose an appropriate section, where the knot will easily blend in. Weave in the ends for about 4 cm, if possible.


----------



## tjb2 (Apr 24, 2011)

I have found this one a while back and for ever using it now--will never come undone!!!! 
Will NEVER show either!!!


----------



## Patty7737 (Apr 26, 2013)

I have had success needle felting mine together.


----------



## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I use the Russian join, I use a fine tapestry needle and you can't see the joins.


----------



## nonichinski (Nov 2, 2012)

I always try to join at the beginning or end of a row. That way you can very easily and inconspicuously run in the ends up the selvedge or use them to sew up if it's a garment under construction. However you join in a lace fabric if it's in the middle of a row it's going to show and please try not to have knots in the middle of your work. They show as well.


----------



## CathyG13 (Mar 1, 2013)

Belle1 said:


> If it is wool or alpaca I splice the two ends together by unspinning and respinning. I learned this from June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting -- this approach is NOT the spit splice. Actually, I use this on all my wools even 4-ply worsted because once you've spliced the wool you have a continuous yarn without any join. For lace work it is a must. When I work fine lace in cotton I use another technique.


I just googled the above reference to June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting and the first link that came up was the post from Knitting Paradise asking for advice on joining lace yarn. lol!


----------



## Shimal (Apr 21, 2013)

If its wool. you can always felt the two ends together. If it doesn't felt, then I would probably just weave the ends in. Easy to do and inconspicuous.


----------



## DonnaOk (Mar 8, 2013)

Thank you everyone.

The yarn is alpaca,cashmere silk blend...very fine. Joins sometimes slide apart...event he knots.

I will try some of your suggestions. Wish there was an easier way as I have many joins to make.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Shimal (Apr 21, 2013)

Try a little dab of fraycheck of superglue on the knot. Use it SPARINGLY.


----------



## kreweel (May 22, 2011)

I have used a tiny bit of fabric glue. I put a tiny drop on my finger and rub the two strands together, when dry, very flexible and invisible.


----------



## DonnaOk (Mar 8, 2013)

Sounds like a great idea...will give it a try!


----------



## Cathryn 2ed (Feb 1, 2011)

msusanc said:


> There are some YouTube videos on this. My favorite one is by janerichmonddesigns but I don't know to send the link. Just go to YouTube and search "magic knot yarn join".


If you want to send a link, copy/paste it into the message box.


----------



## DonnaOk (Mar 8, 2013)

What glue do you use kreweel ?


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Remember, this is lace weight, so some of the joins might not work. I am making a cardigan with lace weight merino. Much to my surprise, I was able to do an almost invisible Russian join despite how thin the yarn is. I used a regular sewing needle with a metal needle threader to get the yarn through the fine eye of the needle. If I was doing a lace pattern, I would definitely do this kind of join.


----------



## ksfsimkins (Jan 18, 2013)

Have you tried the Magic Knitting knot? It is great, leaves no ends to hide and will not come undone. It is a knot that can't be seen or felt in most yarns. And it is SUPER EASY to do. I would think that it would be a good one for lace weight, too. Just Google Magic knitting knot.


----------



## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

I prefer to bring the yarn to an inside edge- even if it means loosing a foot or two, and darning in my ends when I finish the piece- I am hesitant to use knots and find the other joins can loosen especially where there are a lot of yarn overs. you do not want something visible as the magic knot definitely is, where you have a lot of open work stitches. Darning in is just part of life as a knitter. Easy to put off- but the work looks good when done well!


----------



## kreweel (May 22, 2011)

It is just a clear little bottle of fabric glue that I found in Wal-Mart. There is no name just says fabric glue on the front. It is probably about 20 years old, lol 
It has always worked for me with lace weight and "cob web" lace projects where there is no place to run the yarn through stitches.


----------



## KnitterNatalie (Feb 20, 2011)

Another great resource! Thanks for sharing!!


----------



## strangeturtle (Oct 13, 2011)

CathyG13 said:


> I just googled the above reference to June Hiatt's Principles of Knitting and the first link that came up was the post from Knitting Paradise asking for advice on joining lace yarn. lol!


Google tracks you and adds cookies to your browser.


----------



## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

Belle1 said:


> Msusanc -- I watched the video and this is what Hiatt explains in her book -- the real difference is that I actually unspin the individual plies and rather than "felting" by rolling back and forth, I spin only in the twisted direction and do this for all plies -- I don't shorten any of them. The split spice would be a faster way of doing 4+ plies of yarn, but personally I'm not convinced it is as strong. Thanks for sharing the video link -- it is a good place to start.


Hello, just putting in my little bit of info - I was taught the "split splice" when I first began knitting, as this what my mother had learnt, and used, for all of her joins (on natural animal fibre yarns), and they are very strong joins. I never experienced any of my, or her, joins separating - some of the items made by my mother would almost be in the antique category, by now & the splices remain as strong as when they were first done (in the things I still have). Off course the join has to be completed using an adequate amount of yarn


----------



## musing crow (Nov 16, 2012)

I always splice the yarn and gently " finger felt " the ends. It works like a charm for me. 

After reading some of the replies to your question, I just ordered a copy of "The Principles of Knitting" which I was happy to be reminded that I had meant to order some time ago!


----------



## Belle1 (May 20, 2012)

MusingCrow -- I'm sure you will find Hiatt's book a wealth of information -- yes, yes I know most of it is on the web, but count me old-fashioned -- I like to look at pictures, play with needles, experiment, re-read, etc. June's book has become my "go-to" reference for most things structural. The comprehensiveness of the book is really amazing. Hope you enjoy.


----------



## Mariette EDE (Jul 6, 2012)

Thank you ladies, I didn't know how to do this either, I will try this in the morning.


----------



## Reyna (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank you for your explanation, Belle. I find it understandable, and I hope you don't mind, but I have copied it into my knitting techniques file on my PC, so that I have it handy when I need it.


----------

