# Michaels new policy



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


----------



## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

What if you don't HAVE a drivers license? A know quite a few adults that don't. Granted, they do have state ID cards - basically the same thing w/out the driving previlige - but still, what if you don't have it with you?


----------



## Wally-the-bear (Jan 17, 2012)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


Good point. But I wonder what the reason is for Michaels to scan the drivers license? Would you happen to know? Just wondering??????


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).

Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


----------



## jheiens (Jan 20, 2011)

I shopped my local Michael's yesterday and used a credit card--was NOT asked for my driver's license.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find myself never going to Michael's anymore. They don't have anything special to tempt me.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

jheiens, read what was posted, this is regarding returns NOT purchases.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

These businesses give the customer the shaft..they're greedy about taking and getting your cash..but when the shoe is on the other foot...they cry ouch!..Perhaps if they practice Good Customer Service policy and not make the customer feel that they have to almost beg for them to make a return or adjustment they would have more satisfied customers..this is what happens when big business gets to big for their pants...I would think twice about shopping there. If they don't know their product ..they're in trouble..and the attitude of their staff is very unprofessional.


----------



## realsilvergirl (Nov 13, 2011)

But yhey do have a whole scan of your license. In the wrong hands...well....


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Just a minute. Big business employees a lot of people in this country. While I'm not the largest fan of Michael's you'll ever come across, retailers have been the victims of shoplifting, return scams, counterfeit bill passers and a host of other crimes.

These types of crimes rise any time the economy is not good. Loss prevention is a way of keeping costs AND prices down.


----------



## Shamrock (Jan 17, 2011)

So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it? 

Any place that requires a license needs to see the actual license not a copy.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


This would be considered illegal in most civilized countries. 
Literally.
Now, I am not familiar with US laws regarding personal information, but I would be very much surprised if there are non. And even more surprised if it is allowed for everyone to just scan personal documents of their customers.
Here only banks are allowed (and supposed to) do that - when someone creates an account - and the reason is that they might need to check that the person who wants to make a withdraw from an account is the person he/she is claiming to be by means of comparing the picture (from the scanned id).
What's next - taking fingerprints maybe? Or skin for dna test, or some blood for blood type test?
This is absurd.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Shamrock said:


> So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it?
> 
> Any place that requires a license needs to see the actual license not a copy.


The right people would have the right skills to make an actual license from this file.
The employees in these shops will change - and who will swear on their lifes they will never employ the wrong person? Who would sell these files to... the right persons?


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Here is Michael's return policy page at their website.

http://www.michaels.com/Return-Policy/return-policy,default,pg.html

I don't see where this information being giving here is new information.
The webpage at the bottom states that it was last updated 7/12/11.
The only thing I see is that the news station saw a story there (maybe from many complaints).

At our local JoAnn's there are many returns, shall I say "fraudulently" .
I have found many skeins of yarn on their shelves which are not complete/full skeins. 
I always suspected those were returns where someone had bought them to finish a project 
and returned the unused/unsuspecting skein for the price they paid.
Therefore they received "free" yarn...(which is theft).



courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).


I agree with you.
They have to try to stop this somehow.
If doing this will help them catch the thieves, more power to them.
If you are not a guilty party, then why all the hoopla?

Some stores - for expensive electronics for eaxample, require an ID for the actual purchase.
I had to show mine when I bought my new computer system.
And yes, they scanned it.

Your driver's license only shows your picture, your address, and your birth date.
Most states now do NOT have your SS Number on them any more, so that isn't an issue.

I will continue to watch this thread for possible enlightenment to this issue.


----------



## shaney63 (Nov 30, 2011)

Hmm...
Well every time I've returned merchandise to Walmart I've been asked to show my i.d.. As Courier said, it's to keep ne'er-do-wells from shoplifting then "returning" the item for cash. I've worked in retail sales, and I don't blame them for tightening their policy. It's quite possible with the economy in a slump that they've had a spike in shoplifting and returns.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Yes you're right on your assumption from the view of business end..loss prevention vs customer service. I think that the way a business treats it's customers should be #1. I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash. When you pay by check or credit card..they do want to know the pertinent information. A lot of time this helps how a customer spends their money ..keeps a pulse on the purchases and a geographical profile is made which helps the business in the purchasing of goods. I have nothing against those who are employed by big business ..they are doing their jobs..but some have bad attitudes when dealing with customers.This is from a customers point of view.


----------



## ginger57 (Mar 5, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


Please ladies let's not think we are being wronged here. There was a time and still is in many places where our driver's licenses are used to verify we are the owner's of our credit cards! We have used our driver's licenses for years to prove we are who we say we are. If you walk in the store looking for a refund on an item without your receipt, they ask for your name, address, etc. Are you offended then? If you do this on a monthly or weekly basis, believe me it raises flags. They are protecting themselves - NOT violating YOU! I think it might be helpful to make available to customers the amount in $ the loss the store has had to absorb due to these kinds of activities. I think that if you had any idea how much loss there is due to people returning goods that have been tampered with and are now unsellable, and goods that have been stolen, you'd be shocked!!! Have a heart girls.
Be at peace. I will still shop there.


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


Thats why it dosen't make any sense why they are insisting on scanning the drivers licness when you return items.


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> What if you don't HAVE a drivers license? A know quite a few adults that don't. Granted, they do have state ID cards - basically the same thing w/out the driving previlige - but still, what if you don't have it with you?


I thought the same thing. :?


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

Wally-the-bear said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


I haven't a clue. All it said on the news this morning that this is a new policy they are using for returnable things.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Here is Michael's return policy page at their website.
> 
> http://www.michaels.com/Return-Policy/return-policy,default,pg.html
> 
> ...


http://www.privacy.gov.au/faq/individuals/id-q2
http://www.privacy.gov.au/faq/individuals/id-q4
http://www.ag.gov.au/Crimepreventionandenforcement/Pages/Identitysecurity.aspx

Ops, sorry.
This is Australia, people there don't think it is ok to scan personal documents just like that...

And, by the way, here you can't return something just because you decided you don't want it when you got home. You can only return things that don't work, or don't have the quality they should. In which case they should not be sold to other people, obviously...


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

ginger57 said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


*showing* some id to verify you have the right to use a, say, credit card is one thing, having the id *scanned* is completely different. It is a way to and presents a risk to identity thief and is a very serious - and completely unjustified - risk. And by all means it violates your rights.

Imagine. Just... imagine.
You both a crochet hook, but it was bad - well, it happens, and it broke while you were working the second day. You want to return it, or have it replaced. 5 years ago you went through a bad divorce, you have all parent rights to the kid, but the father wants him/her - and is usually living in... well, one of the countries where you won't find the child. He was an university student when you met, but... he fliped when you parted. You obviously don't want him to know where you are. OK, but the next week the store got robbed, cash-register, computers and everything and the rubbers, some junkies, soled everything they could - hard-drives with information included. Your ex steals the child and you never see him/her again and he/she is broth up the worst possible way and ends up dead before he/she is 20. 
Now tell me exactly how this store repays you...

God forbids this ever happens to anyone, but it is not an unthinkable situation. And as the story was exaggerated - intentionally - there are so many situations when someone might not want someone else to know how to find him/her.

Or, in a somewhat better story, you might be the proud owner of 10 - 20 sell phones the mafia uses... Your family is safe, but the police is at your door, because the lines lead to you... who will be answering them - the shop-owner? The clerk? Or just you.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

jonibee said:


> I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.


Come on now, that's absurd. No one does that.


----------



## Knitress (Feb 14, 2012)

Also your social security number.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.
> ...


Office Depot does...
at least they did a few years ago.
But that is all they asked...no name or other info.
Just getting geographical info.


----------



## Knitress (Feb 14, 2012)

Showing the license should be enough. Not scanning it.


----------



## StellasKnits (Apr 10, 2011)

hm....and yet there are still people on KP who type in their email address and full street address for all the world to see. 

Not quite sure how I feel about the scanning issue but I do understand wanting to "see" some form of identification. 

Who remembers when Social Security cards used to say "Not to be used for Identification" right on them? When I first moved to Virginia, the state required that you have your social security number on your driver's license. ACK!! Thankfully, they went to random numbers about 15 years ago I think it was.


----------



## Ferretmom (Feb 17, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> Here is Michael's return policy page at their website.
> 
> http://www.michaels.com/Return-Policy/return-policy,default,pg.html
> 
> ...


I know that when you get a Montana driver's license that your ssn and birthdate is your number and it is the same in most states. If you know how to decode the number then you have the ssn and birthdate of the person. I know that working as a cashier we were given the decoding info so that we could decode it for the return forms. It also has your physical description as well as your address. That's all a scammer or ID thief needs. Even when you ask for a random number, They say that it is but if you examine it carefully.....


----------



## Ferretmom (Feb 17, 2012)

HandyFamily said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.
> ...


Have you shopped at Radio Shack, Lowe's, KMart, or other places? I have and they do ask for this info even paying cash.


----------



## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

realsilvergirl said:


> But yhey do have a whole scan of your license. In the wrong hands...well....


So what. If you pay w/credit card that could leave you wide open to way more damage in the wrong hands....


----------



## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

It's one thing to require a look at your license to verify your identity, and _quite another_ to scan and retain a copy of it in their "companywide database"... I would not allow this. It puts your sensitive information at the mercy of their diligence with security of their data. We all know how reliable companies are with that!

It's a picture of you with your name and address. I wouldn't want that available to anyone. If someone fabricated a fake ID with it, you could end up implicated in a crime.

If you like Michaels and want to continue shopping there, I would write to their corporate office and voice your objection. This is the best way to get things changed, since store policy is set at the corporate level.

Scanning IDs is not going to stop people from returning short skeins of yarn, I'm afraid.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

I use to work as a Merchandiser and a dept. store now defunct..use to tear of the covers for credit on paperback books, and put the rest of the paperbook in the dumpster..they had a choice over a tax write off for charity or get a credit back for their returned mdse. It was the same for greeting cards..they were sent back for a store credit and the envelopes were tossed. I realize that crime makes the prices go up and stores are trying to defend themselves from loss..but each store has it's own policy as to returns and credits..with a receipt and with out a receipt. You get the purchase price back , but some discount that if there has been a sale, you get the sale price back. Without a receipt you get a store credit..You have to trust the store when turning over any info to satisfy them..some drivers license have the social security number of the person..this is a foolish practice as it should be highly protected. Information is so easy to get nowadays. There are two sides to every story and opinion and that's what it is the writers opinion..if you don't like a stores policy..just don't give them your business.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Ferretmom said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > jonibee said:
> ...


Nope - I live in Bulgaria, what I am used to be asked when I pay cash (or with a card) is "anything else?" or "Did you have a nice time shopping in our shop?" - depending on wherever it is a big shop or a little one, nothing more personal than that...


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Good Customer Service! How was your shopping experience in our store..if you have any suggestions we would like to hear about them ..Good or Bad!


----------



## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


In SC, ours includes SS#. It's why quite a few of us are upset because the state allows the sale of license database (including ALL information) to anybody who can afford it.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


WOW!
Seems criminal in itself.
I'll have to remember to stay out of SC. :-( :thumbdown:
If the state is doing it, what are they allowing retailers to do?


----------



## jmko (Dec 29, 2011)

There already was a problem with Michaels' in the past two years re: information from credit and debit cards! Next they will want to scan the deed to your house! I only use cash there IF they have something I need. Too intrusive!


----------



## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

I'd worry because Michaels' have been hacked several times and complete purchase information including credit card numbers were lifted. I don't trust that they've nvested in the necessary system securty upgrade to prevent more leaks since they've been closing stores quite frequently. I think they're in financial trouble---I dont' buy much from Michaels, but try to use cash only when I do.


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


I don't understand having your SS# on your licness. I can remember a time where it was very private information and nobody could ask for it and you were allowed to refuse to give your SS# to anyone unless you were applying for a job and got that job or for the bank account or loan I know that all but the last 4 digits on your ss is blanked out in most thing but even with that anyone can punch in numbers and get your number. Now a days if you refuse to give your SS# you are denied whatever it is you are trying to get.


----------



## GMADRAGON2 (Apr 20, 2011)

"Return Policy
To return or exchange an item, customer is required to present a valid photo ID (see Identification section for list of valid Photo ID's) that will be recorded at the time of the return. Information from customer ID will be retained in a company-wide database of customer return activity that Michaels and its affiliates use to authorize returns. For return of online purchases, refer to Online Purchases section. Michaels reserves the right to limit returns or exchanges regardless of receipt."

They can look at the pic on my license, take down the license number ... but NOT make a copy! I won't have any store do that ... also, remember when we paid by check? They always took down license number and phone number ... so this would not upset me.

As to the reasons ... note they mention a nation-wide data base of fraudulent returns ... my daughter worked at a local chain retailer, and they had numerous people trying to return merchandise without receipts ... that, btw, had been shoplifted!


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

jonibee said:


> Good Customer Service! How was your shopping experience in our store..if you have any suggestions we would like to hear about them ..Good or Bad!


20 years ago - the only time I had any shopping experience in US it was the same as it is here now - people would smile and ask if we had a nice time in the shop... and not what our address is... and it was really good, with all the smiles and good mood...


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I was not aware that some states have social security numbers on drivers licenses. I've been licensed in MI, VA, NY, IL and CO..none of those states have social security numbers on the license. 

there are far easier ways to commit identity fraud and I.D. theft than this. 

In bygone years you had to fill out a long form for a refund that basically contains the same information as your drivers license.


----------



## Ferretmom (Feb 17, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I was not aware that some states have social security numbers on drivers licenses. I've been licensed in MI, VA, NY, IL and CO..none of those states have social security numbers on the license.
> 
> there are far easier ways to commit identity fraud and I.D. theft than this.
> 
> In bygone years you had to fill out a long form for a refund that basically contains the same information as your drivers license.


Just looked at my IL Driver's license and across the bottom it reads " Social Security Number xxx-xx-xxxx"


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I was not aware that some states have social security numbers on drivers licenses. I've been licensed in MI, VA, NY, IL and CO..none of those states have social security numbers on the license.
> 
> there are far easier ways to commit identity fraud and I.D. theft than this.
> 
> In bygone years you had to fill out a long form for a refund that basically contains the same information as your drivers license.


But not the picture and, I am sure of it, no personal... physical information...


----------



## PearlofGreatPrice (Oct 21, 2011)

Does anyone remember when they put the magnetic strip on the back of Drivers' Licenses? It was about 8-10 years ago here and when I first saw it I asked why they put that there the DMV informed me that it would eventually have all our personal data that existed in the world but for the time being it was only going to be used in case a driver got pulled over by the police for a trafic violation.

For years they have been targeting people's purchases so the stores know who to send out which coupons in order to generate more sales. Ever notice the long receipts on your cash register tape at the grocery store? 

One of the proposed taxes by this administration wants to tax us for every single time we make a banking trasaction be it debit or credit or to withdraw or deposit cash.

With all the information collected on us inclucing via our cell phones they know when we are shopping what we like to buy, where, when and how much and how often.

There is no privacy in the world today.

Not even considering Face Book and all the collected data we give away ourselves. The new time line goes back to the first post on FB and it gathers every shred of info and records it chronologically.


----------



## Connjer (Dec 23, 2011)

I tried to cash a check, written to me from a friend, on her Bank of America checking account. I went to her branch of BoA and asked to cash the check. They not only wanted to see my ID to verify who I was - they REQUIRED ME to give up my own FINGERPRINT on the back of that check, in order to cash it.

I was quite taken aback when she stuck the ink pad out for me to ink my finger! I asked her why was I the one being fingerprinted and she said in case the check was "no good". 

I said to her - the check is written off an account at THIS bank; why don't you just look in your own records and see if there is money to cover it? She said even if it showed up money at this moment, the person could have other transactions out there that might clear before this check did.

REALLY? I mean REALLY? If the check is no good, why would I be the one who had to make it good? She told me because I was the one receiving the money for it!

I told her NO WAY and took the check back to my friend. I politely but sternly let my friend know what I could not do business with her by taking her personal checks from Bank of America... WHAT A TRIP!!!!

My friend was in disbelief and called her back to, I guess 'verify' that there had not been some misunderstanding and when she learned that all that I had said was true, she hung up and went to the bank and closed her account.

That was nearly 2 years ago. Lord only knows what they are doing today!!! Y'all Be Careful out there. The 'cost' of doing business is getting pretty weird!


----------



## dazyclover (Feb 15, 2012)

having worked in theft prevention at target, I understand exactly why they scan the driver's license. There are people who make a living on returns that they have stolen to begin with. by getting the DL info, they know who is making an exceptionally high amount of returns. I remember a couple of people making returns everyday.


----------



## Lil Kristie (Nov 25, 2011)

WalMarts asks for your IOD ort license when you return items. AS lot of people make a habit of returning items. Sometimes wearing an outfit n then returning it later. Those can't be sold as new if they have been worn. They then have to take a loss on the article of clothing. As was posted earlier, shoplifters like to try to return items also. Why they have started asking for ID when returning items.


----------



## sbel3555 (Apr 11, 2011)

In my state, unless you ask for a different number, they put your soc security number on your license. I don't mind if they ask to see my license to make sure I am who I say I am, but I will not let them scan it. That info is all they need to steal your identity.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

And what do they do with this info?


----------



## wheelersfarm (May 30, 2011)

I wonder what would happen if you didn't drive so you don't have a driver's license.


----------



## leeannj (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks for spreading the news.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

I believe you have to apply at the registry for a non drivers license..only something to substantiate who you are for identity purposes..


----------



## Mayanmoon (Dec 10, 2011)

My nearest Michaels is a 65-mile drive. If I shop there, it is only because they have something I really want or need.
At the price of gas, I would probably not return anything I purchased. The cost to make a return would be more than the item, so I would probably donate it to Goodwill or the Senior Citizens Center as I only purchase yarn from Michaels. Rather than make the drive to purchase yarn, I order it on line.


----------



## Candy (Jan 28, 2011)

I am with you on this one


ginger57 said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


----------



## krankymax (Mar 5, 2012)

Just about everybody is asking for a drivers license these days. I returned something at Walmart and they asked for an ID. I don't see a problem with it. It doesn't have my social security on it, so not a problem. I (most of the time) give a second thought to buying something from anywhere to keep myself within budget. I am still paying on my sons funeral and that takes a big amount from me each month.


----------



## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

There is a big problem with theft. I worked for a major retailer and in one year in ONE store the loss was in the millions. The stores have to do something to protect themselves. Shoplifting is a big problem.You may be honest but not all are.


----------



## Grandma Jan (Apr 6, 2011)

Anytime I am paying cash and I'm asked for personal information I make it up. I can remember having to give all kinds of information (years ago) to buy a $5 patch kit for a waterbed. I made it all up and my husband looked at me like I had lost my mind.


----------



## Babe4087 (Jan 13, 2012)

I think in case you return too many items. Someone might steal things and then bring them back for cash. If you forgot your license or state ID, then you probably cannot return it. I would think that they should go with no returns without a receipt. Maybe they already do so don't understand the d. license check.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Good Thinking...


----------



## YoK2tog (Aug 17, 2011)

Shoplifting is a problem....more and more of the employees lift profits from the store and instead of the "business leaders" actually take control and enforce their own "rules" they have found a way to make it appear that THEY are doing something..... I usually pay with cash and keep the receipts on the off chance that I have to return with the receipt and they want my name.........I tell them I am Alexander Hamilton.......gets the dumbest looks but I stand my ground


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I guess this all depends on how badly you want your money back. Retailers have no interest in "stealing" your identity. I'm more than sure that Walmart corporation or Michael's or any other retail chain makes a heck of a lot more money than I do.

"What do they do with the information?". Well since most store don't have a gigantic office, with thousands upon thousands of file cabinets or computers with unlimited memory, I would imagine the information is "purged" periodically.

While it is always good to be cautious, being "paranoid" is a whole other matter.

Do people really feel the need to "lie" about who they are?

Employees "lift profits"? Did you really say that? Do you think that everyone who works in the retail industry is a budding thief, not worthy of the common courtesy of trust?

Come on people this conversation is downright insulting.

Yes there are thieves in the world, some are your nice garden variety crooks, some masquerade as investment brokers, some are cute little nurses in white uniforms who steal drugs from patients and yeah there are a few crumb bums in the retail industry.

If you want your money back, from Michael's, this is what is required. Don't like it, don't shop there.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I think you need to look at the big picture here. This country has become totally invasive of our privacy in everything we do in life. 35-40 yrs ago when Kissinger wanted to develop the TIP (Total Information Program) the public raged against that and it was abandoned, at least in the public. Today Homeland Security practice TIP in an even worse form. It's effort is to track every little thing we do and say. Reminds me of the early sci-fi TV serials of the 1950's. And here we are today. Even simple purchases at places like Michael's is hooked into collecting personal information on a level heretofore unheard of. Remember that the DL is the id of choice and is coded electronically with all kinds of personal info, including your photo. It seems more than reasonable to be cynical about them using this ID for returns. 

Please remember that the most profound changes don't occur with drama; they occur in little bits and pieces. This way they get the public to 'adjust' to more and more loss of our civil liberties and privacy and more and more accepting of surveillance and personal control.

As for controlling shoplifting, well returns require sales slips. Last time I heard, they don't give you a sales slip when you slip out the store with a ball of yarn under your jacket. Without a sales slip, the return, if accepted by the store, will only return the lowest price ever on sale which may amount to pennies.


----------



## poulie (May 26, 2011)

I was at Micheals last night and I did not have a coupon, the cashier gave me one after I asked and It saved me $5.40..which meant the cotton yarn I got for $1 each was FREE...I cant complain since I was at Mary Maxiums on the wekeend and they were $2.49 each! You can never beat a sale wherever it is!(I got some good deals at Mary Maxiums too! And I wont be returning it!


----------



## roseknit (Apr 2, 2011)

I bought a bottle of wine at Target yesterday and they scanned my Licence.I am not sure whether the SS# is embedded in it.


----------



## msusanc (Apr 5, 2011)

I don't know why Michael's would require drivers license, but think of this: you take more risk when you give your credit card to the pizza guy. Or any retailer for that matter. We even had fraudulent charges from Amazon on a credit card.


----------



## PearlofGreatPrice (Oct 21, 2011)

tamarque, that is just it, little by little is less noticable just like the frog in the water, by the time the temperature is TOO hot it's TOO late to do or say anything about it.


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

PearlofGreatPrice said:


> One of the proposed taxes by this administration wants to tax us for every single time we make a banking trasaction be it debit or credit or to withdraw or deposit cash.


NOT TRUE!


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

PearlofGreatPrice said:


> One of the proposed taxes by this administration wants to tax us for every single time we make a banking trasaction be it debit or credit or to withdraw or deposit cash.


NOT TRUE!

The Obama administration has NOT proposed or recommended placing a 1% tax on all financial transactions! This idea is from ONE congressman who doesn't have support from even ONE other member of congress and whom, I suspect, is searching for his 15 minutes of fame.

Misinformation: the enemy of our Constitution.


----------



## puglover (Nov 20, 2011)

Beware, Michael's was the company in my area who had issues with taking people's credit card info from the reader as you check out, it's been fixed I guess but I rarely go there anymore and many people had money stolen from them because of that, I'd hate to see what they could do with your drivers license information


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

I guess it's time to get off our soapboxes..and go on with other topics..now gift cards that's another one that could get conversation going...


----------



## PearlofGreatPrice (Oct 21, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> PearlofGreatPrice said:
> 
> 
> > One of the proposed taxes by this administration wants to tax us for every single time we make a banking trasaction be it debit or credit or to withdraw or deposit cash.
> ...


I didn't make it up. The information is out there.

When you slide your credit card to pay at the pump for gas they were over charging. When they ask you at Walmart if you want money back when you pay with a debit card they were putting in cash amounts and pocketing them when you said NO. This is all documented.


----------



## jdwilhelm (Dec 6, 2011)

Ours has a driver's license number that can be used for ID purposes. Who wants their ID info. on this site???


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

This happens at our supermarket when we purchase wine..I guess we still look under-age even though we're in our 70's...they just check ..store policy...


----------



## ConnieD (Nov 12, 2011)

I noticed after I got home from shopping at Michaels that there was a different price (lower) than I paid for the item on a second line with a comment "return price" --- appears they may be adding a restocking charge on returned items --- I don't know anything about the driver license. I don't buy anything from there that I intend to return!


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

flohel said:


> There is a big problem with theft. I worked for a major retailer and in one year in ONE store the loss was in the millions. The stores have to do something to protect themselves. Shoplifting is a big problem.


Investing in a preventing system would be a good idea. 
It is not all that expensive.
And a lot less invasive towards real customers.


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Do you remember when grocery stores had rebates from manufacturers ..but because of a few greedy shoppers, they took to keeping them behind the counter and you would have to ask for them..I don't even know if this is done any more since computers and sites that offer free coupons have taken over. Even the flyers that have coupons have specifics on them ..you must buy over one in order to get cents off..big deal!


----------



## Louise1 (Mar 18, 2011)

A lot of people use their SS# as their DL# and ID#.
Also your home address is on there.
Then they can steal your identity.
Also your are away from home the sales person text's their partner outside and off they go to your home to break in.
Never give your real phone number. They can reverse look up and get your address.
Just watch the news one night on identity theft.
Plus you will be put on every retail stores mailing list. 
It never stops.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Babe4087 said:


> I think in case you return too many items. Someone might steal things and then bring them back for cash. If you forgot your license or state ID, then you probably cannot return it. I would think that they should go with no returns without a receipt. Maybe they already do so don't understand the d. license check.


OK, I don't get it. If you don't have the receipt, how can you ever prove the item you want to return comes from this store!?


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

Yeah..that's another charge..."re-stocking" when you return an item..but then again if you look at your different household bills there are charges for one thing or another..we're getting "nickled and dimed" and that adds up to big profits..


----------



## needlesandnails (Apr 19, 2012)

Courier 770, you are absolutely correct! I fully support Michaels return policy.


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

PearlofGreatPrice said:


> eggplantlady said:
> 
> 
> > PearlofGreatPrice said:
> ...


Pearl: I suggest you look it up. Go to Politifact, where you will see, in part, "HR-4646 had no support -- and certainly not from Obama's "finance team" -- and is now dying a quiet death in committee." You can triple check by also going to Snopes.com, the leading rumor-buster and Urban Legends, another fact checking source.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Connjer said:


> I tried to cash a check, written to me from a friend, on her Bank of America checking account. I went to her branch of BoA and asked to cash the check. They not only wanted to see my ID to verify who I was - they REQUIRED ME to give up my own FINGERPRINT on the back of that check, in order to cash it.
> 
> I was quite taken aback when she stuck the ink pad out for me to ink my finger! I asked her why was I the one being fingerprinted and she said in case the check was "no good".
> 
> ...


I had to be fingerprinted to cash my pay check at the employer's bank.
I thought it was weird at first, but was told it was just to verify who I was ALONG with my Driver's license. It case it was a stolen/forged blank check.


----------



## KyKnitter (Jan 3, 2012)

Michael's accused me of getting a purchase order from my church out of the trash so basically I was trying to steal from them, an amount of less than $10 which would have been the tax on what I was paying for so nothing they do surprises me. Needless to say, I haven't been back and don't intend to go. Hobby Lobby, Big Lots and on line will get my money.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

I didn't even like giving my zip code--it should be optional. It's not their business to require it. It only helps them evaluate their sales. Kohl's used to ask for DL on returns and now they have a 15% restocking fee. What happened to the world our parents lived in---where stores were required to satisfy the customers' demands? I don't believe that thievery is more common in our generation. I believe our generation forfeits more in the area of being overcharged or not bothering with returns already. Stores used to be requires to take things back and dealt with manufacturers themselves. They need some RESPONSIBILITY of their own. I CAN"T WAIT!!!!!


----------



## past (Apr 3, 2011)

I did some research on this and the only thing I could find was this article from ABC on a California TV station. It indicates that a loophole CA law which makes it illegal for CA stores to swipe and hold this personal information. This loophole is under the guise of retail fraud. Here's the link to the article. It doesn't mention anything about and states other than CA. I guess you'd need to check your own state law to see whether it's legal or not.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=8557606


----------



## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

I found a business checkbook and papers that obviously the owner had put on top of his car...I tried to contact the business to no avail..finally I brought it all down to the police station...never even got a thank you from the party.


----------



## NJgardengal (Feb 23, 2011)

What an interesting discussion. I just read each posting and intended to exit without commenting until I read this
(from Courier770) 

"Retailers have no interest in "stealing" your identity." 
This may be true, but the employees of these same retailers are not all so high-minded. 

"Well since most store don't have a gigantic office, with thousands upon thousands of file cabinets or computers with unlimited memory, I would imagine the information is "purged" periodically."
Would that this were true. Customer data is stored electronically for as long as a company wishes to keep it.

"While it is always good to be cautious, being "paranoid" is a whole other matter."

In light of the ease it is to steal the identity of another, and the enormous fuss required to clear one's name (a process that can continue for years after the incident), I don't think it 'paranoid' to protect one's personal information.

My own experience has included an employee losing my personal items while taking them away to be processed. The subsequent distress this created was an eye-opener. Since then, I've made it a firm practice to hold onto my ID and if necessary to go where my items are taken. 
Being careful is not being paranoid.


----------



## irisbel (Oct 12, 2011)

My local Walmart does the same thing. In this day and age people have NO privacy! They wanted to put microchips in animals so they could track them, if that law had been passed, how long before they put chips in all of us? This is not the "America" I grew up in. I feel bad for the children of today. I love the ability to go on the computer and communicate with everyone here and elsewhere and I love using the computer as a vast source of information, but life was better before all the electronics there are now. You didn't see people walking around with a phone attached to their hand or ear 24/7. Life was less stressful, there wasn't so much brain washing of sex, violence and treachery. Television was free. My parents told me not to complain about the commercials as they paid for the programs to be free for us to watch. Now we pay dearly for television and we watch at least 4 minutes of loud stupid commercials and 4 minutes of program. An hour program only has 30 minutes of the story you are watching. Well, I better get off my soap box and stop complaining. I hope everyone has a good day.


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

roseknit said:


> I bought a bottle of wine at Target yesterday and they scanned my Licence.I am not sure whether the SS# is embedded in it.


That particular one may be because you were buying alcohol. 
So proof of age, proof that the employee did indeed check your age.


----------



## gsbyrge (Jul 12, 2011)

Unfortunately, a few bad apples and all that - honest people have to put up with license scanning, frisking at airports, and the many other intrusions which have resulted from a tiny number of people who take advantage, commit crimes, etc. People who scam retailers are one reason prices are always creeping up - I can't remember exact numbers, but the amount of $$ lost to shoplifting and return scams each year could support a third world country for years. It's annoying as all getout, because as soon as someone figures a way around a safety measure, someone else figures out how to make money - like the Katrina and tsunami scams where people thought they were helping out those affected, and in reality were putting $$ into the pockets of criminals. *sigh* 'Tis the days we're living in.....


----------



## bonster (Jan 28, 2011)

You do NOT have to have your SSN on IL license!


Ferretmom said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I was not aware that some states have social security numbers on drivers licenses. I've been licensed in MI, VA, NY, IL and CO..none of those states have social security numbers on the license.
> ...


----------



## moonieboy (Apr 11, 2012)

Many people purchase items with say a half-price coupon from one store and return the item to another store. They say "I lost the receipt. Can I have my money back? In turn, the person would recieve double the amount they paid. The reason they scan a drivers license or state ID is away to track if the same people are doing this regularly. In my area people make a full time job out of this. The police have broken up rings of people doing this. Also, if you want to purchase Sudafed in my state you have to produce a license to purchase because people make chrystal meth out of it. Maybe Michaels should stamp or place a sticker with the store number on the item. This would reduce some of the profit loss


----------



## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

If they have your name, birthdate, and address, it makes it much easier to acquire your ss#. Also, when making false ss# applications, these facts will help them out. I don't like the idea that now we have to show our drivers license to vote, so how easy would it be for non registered voters or illegals to get their hands on this information?
I quit going to Michaels unless I am looking for one thing and one thing only. I am not impressed with their selection of yarns, books, etc. so, why go???


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

The elderly still know their rights vs 'common store practices' and they get it when the store managers are OLD ENOUGH. Our generation can't just sit back and take it. They've been pulling the wool over our eyes gradually over the last 30 years or so!!! I used to think BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING was a silly thing to think---but now I think we've given up too many rights and freedoms in our generation for the future
EACH generation of BABY BOOMERS has paid more at the checkout and has had less rights. Monopolies are now guarded for us at a higher level because we haven't been able to do it ourselves like the older generations.


----------



## MrsC (Jul 10, 2011)

Apparently only need to show your license if you are RETURNING something, not just buying.


----------



## hgayle (Aug 22, 2011)

They hace a new computer program/system that stores driver's license information, and I was told yesterday that it is to help protect the customer, so that if someone were to steal your Michael's purchase from your car, they couldn't return it to Michael's and get the cash. This happened to a friend of mine years ago at another store. She didn't realize her bags were not In the back seat of her car until she got home. She immediately called the store, but it was too late. The thieves had already "returned" the merchandise and gotten the cash refund.


----------



## Gram Jonni (Jun 4, 2011)

Maybe I have a different outlook than many, but I feel we are being so taken advantage of by unscrupulous individuals that I really don't mind providing my identity to show "who I am". Just read recently that lots & lots of people are stealing stuff and then returning it for cash. That increases MY cost the next time by a lot (because the real owner can also receive reimbursement if they prove it stolen). Why should anyone care that they have information about WHO returned an item to possibly keep the fraud from happening again? BUT, that being said I have also made the statement that if you aren't doing anything wrong it shouldn't be a problem to identify yourself. My life is an open book & (UN)fortunately I don't have enough to entice a identity theft.


----------



## J.thrush (Mar 3, 2012)

I've worked in retailing for a long time. I don't live in the US. Yes liscence does get scan for verification for credit cards when getting one, used for the first time or if store credit card is not brought in, in my country and maybe so on. Most of my years in retailing haven't been handling cash. I never heard it being use for return even if you have the card that was used for purchase or paid cash. Receipt you always have to haves. I don't know if I like this new practice but I understand. Were losing our privacy more and more because of the bad apples and the gun ho for new and better technology without taking in consideration of the long term effects. To get to the point, retailing loses alot of money thru theft in different ways. People come in with receipts from other stores, saying they bought this when they actually didn't, returning old merchandise, switching price tags to a lower cost, hiding the merchandise and not paying and so on. Rules have become stricter because of the bad apples who steal and lie. Their alot more of them out there than compared to the past. Unfortunately the good, honest, and hard working people have to bear the brunt from these bad people. I don't how I feel about this new policy but I can say I don't like what the world is becoming. It's getting alittle scary out there.


----------



## Knitwitch51 (Oct 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


I can't think of a reason this type of information would be requested from a retailer either. It's too early in the morning to check my local Canadian Michael's, or read the Privacy Act.

I'd say, if store Management could not give you a written copy of their policy, or at the least give you a logical verbal explanation, I'd pick up the phone and call your local police department or Better Business Bureau or Chamber of Commerce to ask the question and/or lodge a complaint.

There has to be a logical/legal explanation. Knowing how much Michael's loves small print (coupon exclusions) it must be written somewhere. Send an email to their Custmer Service people.\

I hope someone gets to the bottom of this and shares with all of us.


----------



## Lovinknittin (Apr 2, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


That's not true everyplace. Years ago, people's social security number was on the license. Now they allow you to choose a different number. I don't like that new policy but it will deter returns.


----------



## wisjean (Nov 13, 2011)

At my grocery store ( a large chain) if you pay by check they copy "all the informaion from your drivers lic" on the back of the check. This is just like scaning it. 
I'd be more worried about my information getting into the wrong hands when entering contests and signing up for "free" things in stores or on the internet.


----------



## DorisT (Mar 26, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> I didn't even like giving my zip code--it should be optional. It's not their business to require it. It only helps them evaluate their sales. Kohl's used to ask for DL on returns and now they have a 15% restocking fee. What happened to the world our parents lived in---where stores were required to satisfy the customers' demands? I don't believe that thievery is more common in our generation. I believe our generation forfeits more in the area of being overcharged or not bothering with returns already. Stores used to be requires to take things back and dealt with manufacturers themselves. They need some RESPONSIBILITY of their own. I CAN"T WAIT!!!!!


I've returned things to Kohl's and have NEVER been charged a 15% restocking fee. They have the best return policy of any store I've ever shopped in! No questions asked as to why the item is being returned. And if you have no receipt you get store credit. To me, that's an open invitation to shoplifters, but that's their loss, I guess, and they're willing to take it to keep customers happy.


----------



## Bekaknits (Mar 31, 2011)

scanning your license is a lot different than just making a copy of it. the scan strip on the back of your license has a lot of information about you the police can use to see your back ground.

police cars now carry computers to find outstanding warrents, criminal backgrounds, and any other info they put on there. it is all contained on the strip (like on your credit card) on the back of the license. to me this is no business of the store for a simple return. nor do i see how this can be legal.

we'll see.

Beka


----------



## Marianne818 (Jan 2, 2012)

I never give out my SSN and had the option in SC to have it on my DL or choose a different number, which I did. I know for a return at Walmart you show your ID, they do not make a copy or scan it. This policy is to basically record how many returns you are making, to basically flag if you return a lot of items regularly. I do know that employees are the major thieves, I worked at several Walmarts and was shocked at the number of arrest made on employees for theft. In one store they arrested 15 in one night! Less than a month later 13 more were arrested! Theft is a major cause of the increase in prices. When I was working I would find so many empty packages stuffed behind merchandise on shelves, stuffed under clothing on tables and in pockets and even inside shoe boxes. Not to mention how many shoes were swapped out (new shoes taken and they left the old ones in the box) inventory was horrible to say the least. Of course that was my job, so making counts correct was a nightmare. One night the expensive Ipods come like 6 in a case, our unloading team I guess decided they needed a "reward" for doing a good job, they took 5 cases and split between them... needless to say all were taken to jail. 
I don't agree with scanning ID's or DL's, I don't agree with giving my Social to a store.. I will prove my age and show my ID, but I will never let someone scan it! 
Oh bye the way, it was on the news yesterday that a major hospital in Atlanta has found that back up disc for all patients are missing dating back to the 80's... these disc have all the personal info on them... talk about a major goof up.. thousands of people's identity has now been jeporadized.


----------



## DorisT (Mar 26, 2011)

wisjean said:


> At my grocery store ( a large chain) if you pay by check they copy "all the informaion from your drivers lic" on the back of the check. This is just like scaning it.
> I'd be more worried about my information getting into the wrong hands when entering contests and signing up for "free" things in stores or on the internet.


That's why when I register for a website, I provide my proper email address, but spell my name a little differently each time, and give the wrong home address and/or phone number. Then, if I start to receive a lot of Spam mail, I know who "sold" my email address.


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

one of the large dept store chains up here , for a return ( which has a sign fully visible) that if an item is returned with no receipt within 30 days the item must be in the same condition as it was in the store (of course)and all tags untouched you got a gift card not a refund (no problem) 
If they didn't like the look of you they would give you a card with NOTHING loaded on it.This is from a staff workers mouth who was told by managers to do it ( there was a code word said each day) sneaky *&% and they wonder why the got bought out


----------



## Buttons (Feb 11, 2011)

I use to work for Franks Nursery and Crafts for ten years and I worked in the Audit department. My job was to look at return slips, among other things. I caught several people stealing through refunds. Not only the customers but managers and cashiers. They got it for embezzlement for thousands and thousands of dollars. Maybe they should do that. All of them should. I also knew someone that came into Joanns to buy several pieces of material, they had given her two slips but when she came to the register she only had one slip. She through the other one away. it was 231.00 dollars worth of material. So I don't have a problem with it, although I'm not crazy about it because only the police department can access it.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Getting back to the whole thing about just RETURNS... Does anyone remember when you bought an extra skein to make sure you had enough of that dye-lot in case it took more yarn than was stated? And could return it later? ---after a failed return, I AM THE PERSON THAT REQUESTED YARDAGE INFO BE REQUIRED ON SKEINS BACK IN 1973. We got it. Someone I knew went to the manufacturers.


----------



## Kathi11 (Oct 27, 2011)

I'm afraid if we keep trashing Michaels here on KP and their business is effected we will lose yet another craft store. Our AC Moore closed and I miss it terribly. I know I enjoyed the $1 Sugar 'N Cream Michaels had on sale this week and bought quite a bit. I agree their customer service is lacking but I still don't want them to close because I do want to shop there occasionally.


----------



## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

Hi, I don't post very often but this is one I want to reply to today. Kmart has been scanning ID's when a return is made with no reciept for many years, the shoplifting was getting out of control. I haven't shopped or worked there for 14 years so something may have changed but this whole thing was to deal with folks returning items without a reciept. It wasn't done for everyone. When I was there you got 3 returns without a reciept and then you'd be refused after that. It worked very well, you'd be surprised how the rate of returns without reciepts dropped. And you could use a state ID. I never go out without my ID.Who doesn't have at least a state ID? You can't even go to the doctor's office without one anymore. It also seems that more places are asking for an ID with credit cards, finally.


----------



## andyjmcc (Feb 26, 2012)

Have you ever had a person return something at Walmart and give your name instead of their own---I've had this happen.
Some ppl just make one up or give a name of someone they know.
Just don't believe that we ALL need to keep paying for the BAD APPLES!


----------



## spanner926 (Apr 19, 2012)

Read your license! The lady's birth date, including the YEAR is right there on mine. Methinks the lady is age-shy.


----------



## ladylavender (May 18, 2011)

A few observations on this topic:

Tempest in a teapot; Much ado about nothing; A big fuss over a trifle.


----------



## wisjean (Nov 13, 2011)

Kathi11 said:


> I'm afraid if we keep trashing Michaels here on KP and their business is effected we will lose yet another craft store. Our AC Moore closed and I miss it terribly. I know I enjoyed the $1 Sugar 'N Cream Michaels had on sale this week and bought quite a bit. I agree their customer service is lacking but I still don't want them to close because I do want to shop there occasionally.


I agree, there are too many stores closing now we don't need to keep trashing the ones we have left. 
If you don't like the way certain stores do things, then don't shop there. It still is a free country.


----------



## DorisT (Mar 26, 2011)

Kathi11 said:


> I'm afraid if we keep trashing Michaels here on KP and their business is effected we will lose yet another craft store. Our AC Moore closed and I miss it terribly. I know I enjoyed the $1 Sugar 'N Cream Michaels had on sale this week and bought quite a bit. I agree their customer service is lacking but I still don't want them to close because I do want to shop there occasionally.


I've never had a problem with Michael's customer service. Maybe it's the area I live in. I think it's the customers who have the problems. I've even read here on Knitting Paradise people say they buy yarn, try it out, and if they don't like it they take it back to the store, probably a few yards short. I consider that stealing. I'm always careful when I buy yarn not to buy skeins that don't look "used."


----------



## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

I do not know about licenses in other states, but in Illinois there is a bar code on the back of my license, which can be scanned. Now my question to all those that think the only info on your drivers license is name, address, height, weight date of birth. DO YOU KNOW WHAT INFO IS IMBEDDED IN THIS STRIP???? and isn't it true that all an idenity theft needs is name address bithdate? I do not have a problem with them LOOKING at my licenses but scanning it so that it can be entered into their database!


----------



## karwal (Mar 24, 2012)

I personally feel that it would be fine if they just CHECKED my drivers license to make sure all the information I gave was correct, but to SCAN it is a different story. If a person or persons are into robbing now they have confirmation of your address or a stalker now has your phone # and address. This is just my personal opinion. I'm not saying that an employee of Michael's is a robber or stalker, I'm just saying I wouldn't want ANY store scanning my personal information.


----------



## Lovinknittin (Apr 2, 2011)

Marianne818 said:


> I never give out my SSN and had the option in SC to have it on my DL or choose a different number, which I did. I know for a return at Walmart you show your ID, they do not make a copy or scan it. This policy is to basically record how many returns you are making, to basically flag if you return a lot of items regularly. I do know that employees are the major thieves, I worked at several Walmarts and was shocked at the number of arrest made on employees for theft. In one store they arrested 15 in one night! Less than a month later 13 more were arrested! Theft is a major cause of the increase in prices. When I was working I would find so many empty packages stuffed behind merchandise on shelves, stuffed under clothing on tables and in pockets and even inside shoe boxes. Not to mention how many shoes were swapped out (new shoes taken and they left the old ones in the box) inventory was horrible to say the least. Of course that was my job, so making counts correct was a nightmare. One night the expensive Ipods come like 6 in a case, our unloading team I guess decided they needed a "reward" for doing a good job, they took 5 cases and split between them... needless to say all were taken to jail.
> I don't agree with scanning ID's or DL's, I don't agree with giving my Social to a store.. I will prove my age and show my ID, but I will never let someone scan it!
> Oh bye the way, it was on the news yesterday that a major hospital in Atlanta has found that back up disc for all patients are missing dating back to the 80's... these disc have all the personal info on them... talk about a major goof up.. thousands of people's identity has now been jeporadized.


With your strong ethics, I'm curious as to how were you treated by the other employees? When employees are trying to do bad things, they sometimes want the honest ones out of there. We could not do it any other way so sometimes working is difficult.


----------



## dachsmom (Aug 23, 2011)

Once again it is the dishonest people who make it hard for everyone else. My husband owns a restaurant and he has had people try to return half eaten takeout purchased from other local restaurants. They then raised hell because we wouldn't give them the money back. Didn't seem to matter they didn't buy it from us.


----------



## pamgillies1 (Aug 6, 2011)

I think the problem could be with the address if this is shown as an unscrupulous employee (which most are not) could pass on to a criminal fraternity. This is probably not going to happen but I can see why ppeople would be concerned.


----------



## Karen K Turner (May 17, 2011)

I don't think Michaels is trying to spy on anyone. I was an assistant manager for a large grocery chain for several years. People return all kinds of items, some stolen, some misused I know a realator that buys items from hobby stores to stage homes she has on the market and then returns the items once the house has sold. I think they are simply trying to disuade people from returning illgotten gains. If they can not return them they won't steal them.


----------



## vpatt (Dec 24, 2011)

We have those i.d. numbers on our licenses now. But what is the difference? If they can use my SS number they can probably use my i.d. number for doing bad things. What makes one number 'safe' and the other not. You know they are all on file somewhere or what would be the point of having them?


----------



## vpatt (Dec 24, 2011)

not saying Michael's would be the one up to no good, just saying the wrong people can most likely use any I.D. numbers for fraud.



vpatt said:


> We have those i.d. numbers on our licenses now. But what is the difference? If they can use my SS number they can probably use my i.d. number for doing bad things. What makes one number 'safe' and the other not. You know they are all on file somewhere or what would be the point of having them?


----------



## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

realsilvergirl said:


> But yhey do have a whole scan of your license. In the wrong hands...well....


I fully agree with this statement! There is no reason for them to scan a DL. We have the receipt proving we didn't steal the item. Could set up a system of just checking name and writing down license #. KMart use to ask you to fill out a slip with name, address and phone # on it. There is no problem in this but I don't want them (or anyone employed by them) to be able to completely "read my card."

Instead of resorting to this violation of customer rights why don't they hire more clerks to service us better? Have you ever tried to find a clerk on the floor? That would be good customer service on their part.

The only time I shop Michaels is when they offer me that "$5 off a purchase." Then I admit, to get even with them for lousy service and prices, I make copies and more copies of offer and buy, buy and buy some more.


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

past said:


> I did some research on this and the only thing I could find was this article from ABC on a California TV station. It indicates that a loophole CA law which makes it illegal for CA stores to swipe and hold this personal information. This loophole is under the guise of retail fraud. Here's the link to the article. It doesn't mention anything about and states other than CA. I guess you'd need to check your own state law to see whether it's legal or not.
> 
> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/7_on_your_side&id=8557606


When I saw this story on tv yesterday morning the news guy was interviewing someone from my states city. It was a local news report.


----------



## Knitlady999 (Jul 1, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> 
> Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


While I agree that stores need a way to track returns, should folks who are just trying to buy something be exposed to a system that might cause possible problems?
One of those problems can be identity theift. 
Was clueless to the above, till I saw a report on pocket scanners being used to lift customers charging information. 
Be very very very careful!


----------



## dinnerontime (May 8, 2011)

OH man....they will get my weight!!!!! ARGH!!!!


----------



## knittermimi (Feb 22, 2012)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


A lot depends on the particular state/country. I just received my new Michigan state license. On the back it says: "ENCODED DATA: BIRTH, EXPIRATION. REVISION & TRANSACTION DATES; DL/ID CARD #; NAME; ADDRESS; GENDER; ISSUING STATE' & INVENTORY CONTROL #"


----------



## Bebekka (Jun 4, 2011)

I don't have anything but my name on my bank check. I worked just short of 30 years in the criminal justice system as a court reporter so my name was on every transcript...that's why I have a confidential DMV listing, no phone listing, etc. But, we should as a group of members of this site how we want them to handle it; just show your ID, not scan it, or accept the receipt that matches the item for return (as other companies do) and then flood them with letters of complaint threatening never to patronize them again.
Thoughts or procedures?


----------



## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

I guess our choice is to take it or leave it. Theres no law that requires them to have ANY return policy. and you are free to shop elsewhere.


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

Don't get this. It may be just that local Michael's opting to scan licenses of people returning items. Just did a return at our Michael's yesterday and was not required to show any kind of I.D., including a driver's license.


----------



## Marianne818 (Jan 2, 2012)

With your strong ethics, I'm curious as to how were you treated by the other employees? When employees are trying to do bad things, they sometimes want the honest ones out of there. We could not do it any other way so sometimes working is difficult.[/quote]

I never personally reported anyone, my job was inventory control, when items that were supposed to be in stock were not there, I reported to management. (these are things that should have been on the nights truck) All the team that worked the trucks knew my job responsibilities, they knew the risk of getting caught. Management just went over the videos taken while they were unloading. As for the packaging found and so forth, those were taken to Loss prevention along with where they were found.. they scanned videos.
I will add that I have many wonderful friends of all age brackets that worked or still work at the stores I was in.. we stay in constant touch. Those that were guilty or had ideas of theft were not friends with many of the associates or if they were they distanced themselves quickly.


----------



## pulitz22 (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm becoming weary with returning anything! When I didn't notify my book clubs that I didn't want that month's selections, I marked the book boxes "Return to Sender" and took them to the Post Office. They said I had done that incorrectly, that I had to add "Refused." I bought a shrub from our local greenhouse with the guarantee that if it didn't thrive, I would get my money back. When I dug it up! and took it back, they implied that it was my fault, and practically demanded a quart of my blood to give me a refund. There seems to be some sort of creeping need to control going on in this country. It doesn't surprise me at all that driver's licenses are now being scanned. Scary! Bonnie


----------



## shealynnmarie (Oct 1, 2011)

I quit shopping at Michaels a few years ago when they changed their policy on their 40% off coupons. They used to be like Hobby Lobby, 40% off anything, then slowly but surely Michaels started putting limitations, not on books, magazines, this or that. That is an early warning sign of a company NOT doing well. I am in retail and have learned this over time. Putting my name and address in the computer for a return where I don't have a receipt is OK, however, scanning my driver's license? NOOOO, we must retain some sort of privacy. I would probably have asked a Manager WHY. There are scammers out there and our store and Walmart can see at the corporate office how many returns you have made but no personal information, so I don't see the point.


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

Bekaknits said:


> scanning your license is a lot different than just making a copy of it. the scan strip on the back of your license has a lot of information about you the police can use to see your back ground.
> 
> police cars now carry computers to find outstanding warrents, criminal backgrounds, and any other info they put on there. it is all contained on the strip (like on your credit card) on the back of the license. to me this is no business of the store for a simple return. nor do i see how this can be legal.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## littlemissxmas (Oct 1, 2011)

I don't carry my id and things in my pocket anymore. Don't carry a purse anymore either. Someone tried to mug me at work and since then I don't carry that stuff anymore. Once you stop carrying a purse you lesson the chance of being mugged over 75 percent.


----------



## R-honda (Apr 8, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Just a minute. Big business employees a lot of people in this country. While I'm not the largest fan of Michael's you'll ever come across, retailers have been the victims of shoplifting, return scams, counterfeit bill passers and a host of other crimes.
> 
> These types of crimes rise any time the economy is not good. Loss prevention is a way of keeping costs AND prices down.


I agree with you. Having been in retail, from sales to management, for over 30yrs, you wouldn't believe what customers try to pull! I don't think they can do much with your drivers license info. Wal-mart in my town requires the same for cash returns. You can fill out paperwork with any info you want, but when you show a driver's license or a state ID it has to be you. Probably just tracking frequent returners. Sometimes they use this info to track their products to see what is being returned the most. Don't know why they need ID for that though. It's a pain, but if you like to shop there, you do whats required.


----------



## R-honda (Apr 8, 2012)

littlemissxmas said:


> I don't carry my id and things in my pocket anymore. Don't carry a purse anymore either. Someone tried to mug me at work and since then I don't carry that stuff anymore. Once you stop carrying a purse you lesson the chance of being mugged over 75 percent.


What if something happens to you, and you have no ID on you? My husband and I are avid motorcyclists and I never leave the house without my license in my back pocket! If we were to have an accident, I want them to be able to identify me in case I can't speak for myself. I don't like to carry a purse either. So its cash, a comb and ID in the pockets!


----------



## sam07671 (May 12, 2011)

andyjmcc said:


> Have you ever had a person return something at Walmart and give your name instead of their own---I've had this happen.
> Some ppl just make one up or give a name of someone they know.
> Just don't believe that we ALL need to keep paying for the BAD APPLES!


There is someone in my town that has followed me for many years sinde I lived here. Shehas the same first and last name as me and it dosen't matter where I shop if my name is brought into the purchase her name is brought up with her address or phone #. I had a layaway at Walmarts this was when they had layaway and I got her stuff when I went to pick it up. I had to tell them that it was the wrong ine. It is crazy. I have to give my own personal info just to get my purchase.


----------



## pulitz22 (Feb 25, 2012)

Slowly but surely, the driver' license or ID card is becoming a sort of internal passport. Soon we will have to carry our "papers" to go anywhere! Bonnie


----------



## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

This is to stop people that buy things and make it habit of returning items when done with them or if they bought from another store and return with no receipt and I also remember when I worked department stores long ago that people would go to other stores bring item to a store where they know they didn't by item from and get money claiming they did buy it there. And this is results of "the customer is always right" which is an open door to getting ripped off. They only get your name off your license and more than likely address. I myself see nothing wrong with it. But then I don't return a lot of stuff maybe once every two years. I usually keep and find someone that can use the item.


----------



## pulitz22 (Feb 25, 2012)

dinnerontime said:


> OH man....they will get my weight!!!!! ARGH!!!!


Too funny, Dinnerontime! Bonnie


----------



## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

R-honda said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Just a minute. Big business employees a lot of people in this country. While I'm not the largest fan of Michael's you'll ever come across, retailers have been the victims of shoplifting, return scams, counterfeit bill passers and a host of other crimes.
> ...


It only takes a few shoplifters to steal from one store and return it for a refund at another store.

It's an inconvience for the honest shopper because a few can't behave themselves.

But it does happens more than you think.


----------



## User5935 (Feb 9, 2011)

Well said currier. I don't know it Traget still does this, but it at least used to be that you could only make a certain amount of returns in a 6 or 12 (I forget which) month period with ID (eg a license. (I often shop WITHOUT my hooligan children and have them try on at home, returnign what doesnt work. Luckily at that time I had a license and military ID as I had several returns....) Scanning the license helps identify that this is the person who purchased the goods, it- as you said, helps keep track of how often people are returning things, and probably another thing or two we arent aware of. It does not gather your background information, medical info, family history, or anything else that is sensitive. And you are exactly right, businesses- of any size, have to employ extra measures to reduce loss. I am not a big fan of Michaels at ALL, though I have no other crafting store within a 40 minute drive so..... This procedure does not effect purchases, and if you know what you need and get it you are unlikly to run into an issue. And even still, how often is one making returns to michaels to really have this be a big deal?
Like theys ay- one bad apple ruins the bunch, in this case the bad apple(s) "ruined" it FOR the bunch....


courier770 said:


> Just a minute. Big business employees a lot of people in this country. While I'm not the largest fan of Michael's you'll ever come across, retailers have been the victims of shoplifting, return scams, counterfeit bill passers and a host of other crimes.
> 
> These types of crimes rise any time the economy is not good. Loss prevention is a way of keeping costs AND prices down.


----------



## Andrea in TN (Aug 17, 2011)

if you can match a name with a birthdate you can get a social security card


----------



## Knitlady999 (Jul 1, 2011)

mea said:


> I guess our choice is to take it or leave it. Theres no law that requires them to have ANY return policy. and you are free to shop elsewhere.


"Take it or leave it"? Did the founding fathers have that opinion? If so, what did they do?


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


Let us NOT get paranoid over some new and simple requirement over a new policy. Conversation like this takes off and before you know, people add more and more nonsense to something that may never concern them. If you don't like a store's policy, don't shop there--pure and simple.


----------



## mamahen (May 26, 2011)

jonibee said:


> I found a business checkbook and papers that obviously the owner had put on top of his car...I tried to contact the business to no avail..finally I brought it all down to the police station...never even got a thank you from the party.


Hi, Your post reminded me of an incident that happened to me at our Michael's (although this has nothing to do with the store or its employees).

When I was checking out, I realized that my credit card was not in my wallet. (Had used it earlier that day at another store, so it had been in my possession that morning.)

I immediately hurried home to call the credit card company and found that I had a message on my answering machine from the credit card company informing me that someone had found my card in front of Michael's, called them and reported the loss. (The only identifying information they had was that it was a woman caller.) They had cancelled the card immediately and were issuing a new one.

I wrote a very nice thank you letter that was printed in our local newspaper, describing this incident and thanking the obviously honest person of ourstandingly high morals for protecting me from what could have been a nice shopping spree for someone. How lucky for me that the right person found the card!!!!!


----------



## Knitnewbie (Mar 8, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


If you cash a check at Wachovia, written on one of their customer checks and you are not a customer or the person from whose account the check is written, they ask for two forms of picture ID, preferably a driver's license or State ID card, they do fingerprint you. It happened to me when I was out of state and someone had written a check to me from their Wachovia bank. They did not make a copy, just asked to see those ID cards: license and another photo ID.


----------



## Knitnewbie (Mar 8, 2011)

BTW, here in SC when you get a state tax refund, they send you an ATM card. This happened to us, in spite of the fact that we requested direct deposit. Once you receive the card, you must activate it, whether you want to or not, in order to get your money. After you activate it, you can get all of your money once, without a fee. If you opt to use it for purchases or cash withdrawals over time, they will charge you a fee. If you ask for a check for all of the money, the bank will charge you $5.00. Why should we have to pay a fee to get our own tax refund. This seems illegal for the state to work with an ATM company to charge tax payers to access the refund. Think how much money that ATM company/bank will get from all of the people using those ATM cards! It just is not right and I think it should be illegal, if it isn't.


----------



## ghosking (Apr 21, 2011)

If the criminals can do this:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/ConsumerNews/debit-card-fraud-michaels-crafts-customers-info-captured/story?id=13593607

Why can't they do something else with the information they get from your driver's license. I mean Identify Theft is a big thing right now  and for those that are saying, "what information are they getting that isn't on a cheque" how about YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER. You would be shocked to see how quickly information can be obtained from a bit of information


----------



## ClaireR (Dec 21, 2011)

There is other personal information on my driver's license and I would be insensed at such a request. As a consumer, I would ask for the manager and raise cane about such an invasion..................and never return to Michaels, period.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


Being able to scan the license just makes it easier and quicker for them. A few years ago when I worked in retail we got new registers and they had the ability to scan your license, but at that time, if I remember correctly, the Iowa drivers license wasn't able to be scanned. I may not remember that correctly, but I think that is right.


----------



## ghosking (Apr 21, 2011)

I guess the good news, is they were finally caught and serving their time now 

http://www.topix.com/com/mik/2012/03/two-men-who-stole-bank-info-from-michaels-customers-headed-to-federal-prison


----------



## carolyn tolo (Feb 7, 2011)

The one time I went to Michaels, on my cane, several clerks sat behind the checkout desks conversing. Only one clerk checked us out, and there was a long line of customers.

I won't go back. Carolyn


----------



## DEE DEE (Jan 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I guess this all depends on how badly you want your money back. Retailers have no interest in "stealing" your identity. I'm more than sure that Walmart corporation or Michael's or any other retail chain makes a heck of a lot more money than I do.
> 
> "What do they do with the information?". Well since most store don't have a gigantic office, with thousands upon thousands of file cabinets or computers with unlimited memory, I would imagine the information is "purged" periodically.
> 
> ...


You are right on target. Couldn't have said it better myself. 
I have nothing to hide and feel more secure when I am asked for ID, etc. With all the crooks, local and FOREIGN, it is better to be safe than sorry. Dolori


----------



## crafty jeanie (Apr 1, 2011)

I went to Rite Aide and they scaned mine and it was on a purchise, which I didn't like. When I gave it to her she just asked to see it not scan it. I don't care if info is on it or not, they don't need my b-date, height, weight or drivers license #


----------



## Hook'em Horns (Mar 6, 2012)

The information sounds very innocent doesn't it? The license information can be sold or stolen if hacked from their supposed to be secure computer program. Still sounds innocent huh? This information can then be compared to hacked info from databases such as a police dept which is also supposed to be secure, guess what? Now all of your personal info has just been found and your identity stolen! I understand people out there are scamming people, thieving, and living against everything right, but we need to protect our personal information at all cost. I would demand they show a written store policy stating what their return policy is and this should be distributed to every person that makes a purchase from their store so all are aware of what is expected before they buy any merchandise. Sometimes this is listed on the back of your receipt, if not check with the better business bureau for laws that pertain to stores demanding to scan or copy your personal identification. Personally, I would take the loss on the item and sell it in a garage sale or donate it to the church before they would copy my info. Way too much bad stuff happening out there to take chances.


----------



## ClaireR (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm not interested in the Merchant's problems and I'm sure their prices have the possibilities of wrongdoing built into their price structures. I am the consumer and they should be courting me, not insulting me, nor invading my legal documentation. I've worked with computers ever since I got my degree and believe me, there is alreado TOO much personal info out there about us and our buying habits, etc.


----------



## The Lady (Apr 19, 2012)

If you do not want to have your license scan, simply do not return the item buy what you need and not what you want or don't shop at Michaels. I personally do not shop stores that do not offer cash refunds for the cash I spent. If you look on the internet you can find out more info on a person than what's on their license FOOD FOR THOUGHT


----------



## wordancer (May 4, 2011)

Big Brother techniques filtering down ... over the years, the decades we are being conditioned not to question minor unreasonable practices... "you want my address, my phone number, my signature, my left leg, my soul, sure take it, it has to be OK." eh?


----------



## westwood (Dec 9, 2011)

I guess I'm lucky. I've never had any problem with Michaels.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


If the state of Carolina hasn't requested it, you can ask to have it taken off. Iowa hasn't done that for years. I didn't think anyone did anymore.


----------



## comebackknitter (Oct 9, 2011)

Your birthday, for one. And, business can access Drivers License information


----------



## Knitwitch51 (Oct 20, 2011)

mamahen said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I found a business checkbook and papers that obviously the owner had put on top of his car...I tried to contact the business to no avail..finally I brought it all down to the police station...never even got a thank you from the party.
> ...


Thank you for providing us with a "Happy Ending" story!


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

Geez its going some when returning some product that isnt right, and take a risk at giving all your information!!!!


----------



## linshel21921 (Apr 22, 2011)

Hackers have been known to hack into government databases as well as private businesses.
Just saying...........



courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


----------



## Jean gilmour (Dec 9, 2011)

I shop at Michaels and don.t own a drivers licence so what do I do ...I guess I am stuck and can.t return anything....will just have to shop else where...I am one off the few who never learned to drive haggis


----------



## Jean gilmour (Dec 9, 2011)

I shop at Michaels and don.t own a drivers licence so what do I do ...I guess I am stuck and can.t return anything....will just have to shop else where...I am one off the few who never learned to drive haggis


----------



## JJKnitter (Jan 31, 2011)

I wouldn't want to give my license since some of you have
your license number listed as your social security number which
in wrong hands could steal your identity.
I don't feel safe even they say they don't give out your info.
You never know who will see your license and do bad with it.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ladies and Gents, when your drivers license is known, credit cards can be obtained in your name without knowing your SS at first. Those who have one number, will obtain all the rest of the info.

I have a friend 77, who lost her driver's license in a grocery parking lot and had thousands of dollars charged to several new charge cards. She may have to file bankruptcy over this at 77---so look out!

I don't buy much at Michaels anyway so this is just another reason not to buy there again.

Do others have comments? Jane


----------



## Dusti (Jan 23, 2012)

The Michaels by me has been doing that for over a year now. This was the result of hackers having hacked into their pin machines and copying all their customer's pin numbers. Of course my card was caught up in that mess, too. They only got a hundred dollars from me before it was stopped. I had to get a new card but the bank gave me back the money. 
Dusty


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> PearlofGreatPrice said:
> 
> 
> > eggplantlady said:
> ...


It was a bill first introduced in 2004 by a Pa representative. He thought it could be used to pay down the national debt and then replace income tax. It never went anywhere and is sent out in email to scare people. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Obama Administration.


----------



## Linda B (Jul 25, 2011)

This is a fascinating discussion. I am not a good consumer - meaning, I don't buy that much stuff. Six weeks ago, when I was otherwise occupied, someone in CA (I live in CO) made 4 purchases off my debit card account in one morning. Visa immediately called me and I called my bank, verified the false purchases, and they reissued my card, an organizational pain for me, but really OK. (Yay, Visa!)

Since then I have talked to a computer security pro about how someone may have gotten my #. He said that the weak link is the human link. There are some unscrupulous folk who, while working for a company, will steal customer info. I can see some resentfully-employed person taking my info, calling it to a friend in CA, and then that person goes to town.

Imagine this scenario with DL info in tow!! My cousin had her identity stolen and it took her two years, thousands of dollars, and tons of time to clear her name.

My proposed solution would be: take my address and phone for a return. LOOK at my driver's license to make sure it matches. Scanning is simply a way for companies to save time in protecting themselves, with the unintended consequence of making the consumer vulnerable. Another option would be: companies could send a refund check to the HOME address provided - but that would take a lot of time and cost more.


----------



## fludzbug (Apr 14, 2012)

I returned an item the other day at MICHAELS and the clerk asked for my license. She told me it was because I paid in cash. I wasn't even getting cash back. I used the credit to buy some yarn that was on sale. This made no sense to me at all. I was a victim of debit card fraud and try to use cash as much as possible. It seems that using cash is problematic now, too!


----------



## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> 
> Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


It is an invasion is some states still use social security numbers on them.


----------



## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

ginger57 said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


----------



## Thulha (Nov 10, 2011)

Just another way to invase your privacy. Thanks for the warning. I won't shop there anymore. I always vote with my pocketbook.


----------



## Eag1eOne (Oct 24, 2011)

> In SC, ours includes SS#. It's why quite a few of us are upset because the state allows the sale of license database (including ALL information) to anybody who can afford it.


Really? My SC driver's license number isn't my social security number. Hasn't been since I've moved here over 15 years ago.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Michaels is not doing anything different than any other retailer can and should do. The purpose of the scanning is to keep track of how often someone is returning items with or without a receipt to decrease fraud.

I work in a doctor's office and we now must ask for photo ID from ALL of our patients. It is because people have been "borrowing" others insurance cards to commit insurance fraud. 

I have had to ask patients who have been patients of ours for many years and (ob/gyn office) have delivered several of their children, etc. Obviously, we KNOW them personally, most times their spouses as well as their parents and other family members. We HAVE to get photo ID from EVERY patient... it would be discrimination if we did NOT.

This is simply another form of a retailer protecting themselves. There is nothing private on my license that cannot be looked up in the phone book except for my birthdate and I don't see how that would be a problem. If you think logically that they are only keeping track of how many times and the manner in which you are returning items, it will make sense to you.

I don't believe that Michaels, nor any other retailer who asks for an ID for a return is trying in any way to "con" you or "scam" you in any way shape or form. Neither are we at the doctor office... we are simply protecting ourselves from people who ARE trying to scam us or con us. 

Bottom line, if you don't want to give your driver's license to the cashier for scanning, then don't make a return OR choose another retailer to buy from. (BTW.... good luck finding one that doesn't have this policy as it is quite typical nowadays). AND... if you don't want to give me your license when you come for your pap, then go visit another doctor. (again, GOOD LUCK finding one that doesn't require your license)

In addition, this is TOTALLY legal in every state (as far as I can find) in the US. 

Furthermore, I LIKE the idea of scanning. We, at the office make a photo copy of the card and stick it in your chart for anyone who works there to see. If it is scanned, it goes into the computer and is stored there.


----------



## sillyknitter (Jan 31, 2011)

my husband works for Gander Mountain, which is an outdoors sports store--like fishing, hunting, camping, etc. Last Feb.they took anyone who had a title less than department manager and knocked them ALL back to part time. I won't bore you with what that did to us personally, but as a company, they've seen thefts skyrocket!!!! Because of the cutbacks, there are hours where an entire department is unmanned--and thieves have a heyday!! Dave will go in the next day and find an empty box for $90 fly line lying on the floor, fly reels removed from fly rod/fly reel combos, and empty lure packages scattered all over the place. I think it's so sad that people think it's okay to steal. No wonder prices are going up for everything, or prices stay the same but the quantity is shrinking (remember when canned catfood was 6.25 oz per can, and now it's down to 5.5 oz!!! Sorry- I know this is a bit off topic, but I guess I can see both sides of the coin.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Or.... you can hide in your house, never leave for any reason, don't own a credit card or a computer, buy everything in cash and NEVER return anything. You can do the best to protect yourself, but bottom line is no one is perfectly safe.

I feel sorry for the woman who lost her license in the parking lot and is now suffering effects from some random person who found it and had committed a crime with the informaion.

What Michaels is doing is NOT the same. They are not stealing your informaion, they are using an ID to protect themselves.

Perhaps the woman who asks for your ID when you use a credit card at any retailer has a photographic memory as my son has. SHE could take your informaion.... 

Bottom line is use your head.... if you lose your ID, call immediately and have it cancelled.

I never order online... I SHOP online but (almost EVERY site has an 800 number) I CALL up and place my order every time, avoiding having my credit information on the internet. Yes, the person who answers the phone has the opportunity to copy down my number and use it.... 

Like I said.... use common sense to protect yourself, but you can't be 100% safe in life. Unless.... like I said... don't drive, own any ID, don't have any credit cards, only pay with cash, don't go to the doctor, don't sign up for any computer sites (including KP), don't go out of your house.


----------



## mamahen (May 26, 2011)

Knitwitch51 said:


> mamahen said:
> 
> 
> > jonibee said:
> ...


You're welcome.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.
> ...


Obviously you don't live in the US, so this doesn't even pertain to you unless they have Michaels in other countries.

Her in the US we are free.. free to return anything we want for any reason (most stores). Free to CHOOSE NOT to shop at a store which we do not feel comfortable with.

In the US we have a free enterprise system whereby Retailers may form their OWN return policies as to how they will accept returns, when they will accept them, etc. as long as it is within the law.

We are free to shop where ever we may choose. If I don't like a stores return policy, I don't shop there.

I appreciate you don't think this is fair, but perhaps you have a bit of a better understanding of how our country operated with regards to a free economy and freedoms to choose.


----------



## shealynnmarie (Oct 1, 2011)

I went to school and paid for a book, $108 dollars, almost all I had in my account at that time, went to the car to check how much I had left and someone had already charged $49.00 down the street. Went to the store and told them, they said so what, went to the bank and filed a complaint and they cut off my card, issued a new one and I got my money back. The card never left my hands, so someone had a digital scanner to pick up the number and transmit it elsewhere (the bank said). I was really honked off at first, but the bank handled everything and all is well. The scary thing is it had to be a college student where I go to school? What are these young kids doing?


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> It's one thing to require a look at your license to verify your identity, and _quite another_ to scan and retain a copy of it in their "companywide database"... I would not allow this. It puts your sensitive information at the mercy of their diligence with security of their data. We all know how reliable companies are with that!
> 
> It's a picture of you with your name and address. I wouldn't want that available to anyone. If someone fabricated a fake ID with it, you could end up implicated in a crime.
> 
> ...


How is scanning your credit card any different? It puts MUCH more information out there and makes you instantly vulnerable.

Secondly, as many have explained... if you have too many returns, it will send up a red flag and your return will be denied.... lessening the ability for you to return any MORE short skeins. Simple


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Knitress said:


> Showing the license should be enough. Not scanning it.


Clearly you don't understand the PURPOSE of scanning it. To keep track of how many times you are returning, thus lessening fraud. How would showing a license help that?


----------



## cydbay (Jul 9, 2011)

courier770 said:


> jheiens, read what was posted, this is regarding returns NOT purchases.


that was rude


----------



## jmko (Dec 29, 2011)

The folks saying they have nothing to hide DO NOT understand the problem. They never had their idenity stolen!


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


While I disagree with any objection to having my license being scanned, I agree with your point. I would NOT want my license to have my ss number on it. Very dangerous and I would push for legislation to have it removed.


----------



## umozabeads (Oct 14, 2011)

Okay, here we go again, another rant about Michaels. The reason that they scan your Drivers license/ID now is because of EMPLOYEE/FAMILY FRAUD! In California where I live some employees were allowing there family members to come in an return items and they were given the full price not the sale price for the items. They were STEALING from Michaels. The new policy is not part of a conspiracy theory to capture your information. It is to make sure that who you say you are is true. Have a nice day! and Happy Knitting!


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

tamarque said:


> I think you need to look at the big picture here. This country has become totally invasive of our privacy in everything we do in life. 35-40 yrs ago when Kissinger wanted to develop the TIP (Total Information Program) the public raged against that and it was abandoned, at least in the public. Today Homeland Security practice TIP in an even worse form. It's effort is to track every little thing we do and say. Reminds me of the early sci-fi TV serials of the 1950's. And here we are today. Even simple purchases at places like Michael's is hooked into collecting personal information on a level heretofore unheard of. Remember that the DL is the id of choice and is coded electronically with all kinds of personal info, including your photo. It seems more than reasonable to be cynical about them using this ID for returns.
> 
> Please remember that the most profound changes don't occur with drama; they occur in little bits and pieces. This way they get the public to 'adjust' to more and more loss of our civil liberties and privacy and more and more accepting of surveillance and personal control.
> 
> As for controlling shoplifting, well returns require sales slips. Last time I heard, they don't give you a sales slip when you slip out the store with a ball of yarn under your jacket. Without a sales slip, the return, if accepted by the store, will only return the lowest price ever on sale which may amount to pennies.


You could move to Bulgaria.


----------



## Kellanrevere (Nov 25, 2011)

courier770 said:


> jheiens, read what was posted, this is regarding returns NOT purchases.


I would rather be asked for ID when using a non-photo credit card. Too much fraud already.


----------



## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

Some driver's licenses are enhanced, they have a ton of information on them. It does not show up when looking at it, it's coded stuff. I am not sure what is on them, but they need to be protected in a metal case or special envelope or they can be 'read' from a distance off. I would tell the clerks 'I don't have a drivers' license', and ask for a supervisor, then ream them out. and I would not buy from Michaels anymore.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Shamrock said:


> So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it?
> 
> Any place that requires a license needs to see the actual license not a copy.


There are lots of things that can be done with a copy of a license, which can then be used to create phony DLs. I worked at Legal Aid for many years and have seen what people do with copies.
I have no problem with being asked to SHOW my ID, but I will refuse for ANYONE to make a COPY. Completely LUDICROUS that we don't see how totalitarian rules begin slowly with infringement on your rights. Small at first then the larger requirements.
If I return something, the store has the right to ask to see my ID to ensure I was the person who purchased, but I do not have to give them copies of my PERSONAL DOCUMENTS. Just me saying what I believe. I am becoming fierce about protecting my rights however small. AARRGG! :twisted:


----------



## sherimorphis (Oct 11, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


Interesting...wonder how they'd treat me without a DL?


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

I won't shop anywhere that requires a DL scan.


----------



## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

going to Snopes.com, 


Snopes is not completely letitimate, they lie. not on everything, they are heavely supported by george soros. If you trust george, then trust snopes. I don't trust either.


----------



## 8435 (Feb 24, 2011)

whats wrong with that? Guess what? last year my cardiogy asked for driver lic. now his office is about 5 other Docs. so its not him , its a medical thing . that started last year. its so many dishondest people now. the word has changed. sence 911 nothing is the same. so be patient and help your store clerk. and enjoy yourself. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## sibergirl (May 4, 2011)

Showing one's license is much different from scanning it. I don't mind showing but I would object to scanning. There is no need for the store to have my license number, address, height, weight, eye color.


----------



## Marilyn K. (Jul 8, 2011)

I don't think they can legally do that in Ca. My husband thinks they may actually be able to ask for your license for a check but they are not allowed to ask for it in Ca for a credit card.


----------



## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

Tresperros said:


> There are lots of things that can be done with a copy of a license, which can then be used to create phony DLs. I worked at Legal Aid for many years and have seen what people do with copies.
> I have no problem with being asked to SHOW my ID, but I will refuse for ANYONE to make a COPY. Completely LUDICROUS that we don't see how totalitarian rules begin slowly with infringement on your rights. Small at first then the larger requirements.
> If I return something, the store has the right to ask to see my ID to ensure I was the person who purchased, but I do not have to give them copies of my PERSONAL DOCUMENTS. Just me saying what I believe. I am becoming fierce about protecting my rights however small. AARRGG! :twisted:


You are so RIGHT, on all counts! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Ahhhh complacency.......certain requirements make sense, others you have to question. 
AFTER ALL, Arent they questioning MY integrity by asking ME for copy of my drivers license to prove I have the legitimate proof of purchase? So why should we trust they will do whats right with my DL information? 
If you have purchase receipt, you have the material, and you have a legitimate reason to return, they should refund period; either $$$ or put back on your credit card. Show your card and that should be sufficient.
Aargg!again. Michael's got me going today! but not to their store!!


----------



## 8435 (Feb 24, 2011)

My mistake! i neverheard of scaning licese. who else have seen this??


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Only problem with scanning my State ID is that they will know I lie when they see my weight!!!


----------



## 8435 (Feb 24, 2011)

sorry i misunderstood.


----------



## SmilingCamel (Oct 21, 2011)

jonibee said:


> I use to work as a Merchandiser and a dept. store now defunct..use to tear of the covers for credit on paperback books, and put the rest of the paperbook in the dumpster..they had a choice over a tax write off for charity or get a credit back for their returned mdse. It was the same for greeting cards..they were sent back for a store credit and the envelopes were tossed. I realize that crime makes the prices go up and stores are trying to defend themselves from loss..but each store has it's own policy as to returns and credits..with a receipt and with out a receipt. You get the purchase price back , but some discount that if there has been a sale, you get the sale price back. Without a receipt you get a store credit..You have to trust the store when turning over any info to satisfy them..some drivers license have the social security number of the person..this is a foolish practice as it should be highly protected. Information is so easy to get nowadays. There are two sides to every story and opinion and that's what it is the writers opinion..if you don't like a stores policy..just don't give them your business.


Hmmm...was that PharMor by any chance? My husband had a store in a shopping center with one and he had an employee that would dumpster dive and get books and all kinds of perfectly usable items.


----------



## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

Tresperros said:


> Ahhhh complacency.......certain requirements make sense, others you have to question.
> AFTER ALL, Arent they questioning MY integrity by asking ME for copy of my drivers license to prove I have the legitimate proof of purchase? So why should we trust they will do whats right with my DL information?
> If you have purchase receipt, you have the material, and you have a legitimate reason to return, they should refund period; either $$$ or put back on your credit card. Show your card and that should be sufficient.
> Aargg!again. Michael's got me going today! but not to their store!!


where is the 'LIKE' button?


----------



## Gilian (Dec 11, 2011)

Years ago when I got mywhen I went for my citizen ship ,of course I was asked for drivers license along with other IDs and was told they can get all the information from i t more than any other I don't know if that is true.


----------



## Bea 465 (Mar 27, 2011)

Andrea in TN said:


> if you can match a name with a birthdate you can get a social security card


According to the U.S. government "To apply for an original card, you must provide at least two documents to prove age, identity, and U.S. citizenship or current lawful, work-authorized immigration status. 
Evidence of Age: In general, you must provide your birth certificate. 
Evidence of Name: You must provide current, unexpired evidence of identity in your legal name. 
As proof of your identity, you must provide a: U.S. driver's license; or
U.S. State-issued non-driver identity card; or
U.S. passport "

So you can't just match a name with a birthdate to get a social security card.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

I'll help! LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Courier is on her usual rant. I pay with cash and I expect cash back without having to beg for it. I always have my receipt and that is all they need. 
I have owned my own business for 40+ years and good customer service is just good customer service PERIOD


----------



## mamapr80 (Mar 17, 2011)

Shamrock said:


> So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it?
> 
> Any place that requires a license needs to see the actual license not a copy.


IN several states, there is a Q-code or 2-D bar code on the back of your license - THAT's what they are scanning (with the bar-code scanner), not making an actual copy of your License. The bar code has embedded within it the info that's on the front of your license - name, address, License # and state - just making sure that it is good and verifyable information and not a forgery for someone making fradulent returns for cash or store credit


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

It is the fault of all those darn knitters who always want to return someone else's yarn, they are even willing to forge someone else's name for a fraudulent return, darn them!


----------



## jejazzington (Dec 8, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


I also was asked for my driver's lincense when I returned something.
I had purchased with a debit card, and I think one purpose was to cut fraud?? Be sure it was me, not a thief returning the yarn?
But what if someone else had kindly offered to do the return for me?

It annoyed me - because the debit card is, essentially, cash.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

linshel21921 said:


> Hackers have been known to hack into government databases as well as private businesses.
> Just saying...........
> 
> 
> ...


Then they could ALSO hack into the DMV database. I guess you are saying that you have NO problem letting your license be scanned, then, right?


----------



## zetster (Mar 12, 2012)

Everyone ask's for your drivers license or photo id anymore and that is just to insure that it is actually you...the person on the check..credit card...or whatever card. Grocery stores, restaurants and many other places do it all the time to check for your photo or your signature, no big deal. I even get asked for photo id when using my debit card which has my photo on that!!! Relax!!


----------



## MuffinsMom (Nov 12, 2011)

As a small business owner,I have to watch all the time for the newest way for someone to take advantage. Since I am a consignment furnitur shop, we do not allow returns. Unless, you do a 24 hour try it on the item. That means, you pay for the items and that you have 24 hours to make up your mind if it will work. I know that I have one customer in particular that take items on Saturday on a try it, and returns it on Monday (we are open on Sunday). She does a lot of entertaining, so I am helping her impress her friends at no cost to her. I have had to limit her access to this privilege. The consigners were complaining because they were not making money. All that being said, I did not to make everyone suffer for this one customers offense. 

The big box stores,like Michaels, have to make everyone suffer. I am sure someone at a corporate office thinks this is a good idea. Let them know you don't agree. It is the only way to make a difference. Just a few ideas from a different perspective.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

zetster said:


> Everyone ask's for your drivers license or photo id anymore and that is just to insure that it is actually you...the person on the check..credit card...or whatever card. Grocery stores, restaurants and many other places do it all the time to check for your photo or your signature, no big deal. I even get asked for photo id when using my debit card which has my photo on that!!! Relax!!


No problem with asking to SEE, but NOT COPYING! that is the issue.


----------



## wackycat4 (Jan 28, 2011)

I had to show my driver's license to cash my check to myself at my bank. I was told it was simply to prevent fraud. While I thought that was extreme- there is a lot of fraud out there!
wacky cat 4 :roll:


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

deshka said:


> Tresperros said:
> 
> 
> > Ahhhh complacency.......certain requirements make sense, others you have to question.
> ...


In the end, it doen't matter what you THINK they should do. We live in a free country with a free market economy. Retailers are free to make and post their OWN return policy for what ever reasons they choose as long as it is legal.

We, as consumers have the rights to shop where ever we choose. Plain and simple.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Sewbizgirl said:


> Tresperros said:
> 
> 
> > There are lots of things that can be done with a copy of a license, which can then be used to create phony DLs. I worked at Legal Aid for many years and have seen what people do with copies.
> ...


I wonder if any of you realize that thieves have devices which can scan your credit card AND driver license (in your wallet, pocket, purse, etc.) if you walk within 20 feet of them, say in the mall, parking lot, etc.

You cannot totally protect yourself. Going after a retailer who is within the law, creating rules to protect themselves from theives is senseless.

We live in a free country, people. If you don't want your license scanned, don't leave the house.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Wow. Feel chastised for venting about Michael's policy. Better go off to knit now than continue this thread.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Gilian said:


> Years ago when I got mywhen I went for my citizen ship ,of course I was asked for drivers license along with other IDs and was told they can get all the information from i t more than any other I don't know if that is true.


ANYONE can get ANY information they choose. They can hack, they can steal, they can own a device that scans your driver license and any credit cards you have in your possession if you walk by them within 20 feet.

Therefore, being upset about Michaels asking to scan your license to return an item seems a bit ridiculous.

The ONLY way you can truly protect yourself is to stay indoors, don't leave the house and hope no one pulls in your driveway and uses a scanning device to scan information you have barcoded in your home. Be realistic. Use your brains, ladies.


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

deshka said:


> going to Snopes.com,
> 
> Snopes is not completely letitimate, they lie. not on everything, they are heavely supported by george soros. If you trust george, then trust snopes. I don't trust either.


Isn't it wonderful that with the internet we have so many different avenues to check facts; and it fact, before forming one's own opinion, numerous legitimate sites should be perused.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Courier is on her usual rant. I pay with cash and I expect cash back without having to beg for it. I always have my receipt and that is all they need.
> I have owned my own business for 40+ years and good customer service is just good customer service PERIOD


Good for you. That is your CHOICE as a retailer. I am guessing that you do not own hundreds of stores across the country and theft is not as rampant a problem for you. Congratulations and wonderful for you to be able to provide good customer service for your customers and still be able to make a profit.

It is within Michaels rights as well as any other store, including yours to ask for ID and scan that ID before providing a return. That is the point that many persons don't understand on this forum and I find it so frustrating.

It was explained that it is within the law, it is their right to determine their own return policies as well as it is YOUR right to have YOUR stores own return policies. If anyone has any problem with it, they are free to shop elsewhere.

If you feel it is a violation to be asked to have your ID scanned, you can choose not to return your item. It is NOT a violation of your rights, it is NOT the companies intent to commit fraud.

Again, it is senseless to even have this discussion when thieves have devices that can scan your id and credit cards by simply walking by you within 20 feet. Am I the only one who watches Dateline?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> deshka said:
> 
> 
> > going to Snopes.com,
> ...


I agree, but a lot of people don't check first. Some people get emails and instantly believe what it says without checking it out. When I get email I can't check out, I don't forward.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Tresperros said:


> zetster said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone ask's for your drivers license or photo id anymore and that is just to insure that it is actually you...the person on the check..credit card...or whatever card. Grocery stores, restaurants and many other places do it all the time to check for your photo or your signature, no big deal. I even get asked for photo id when using my debit card which has my photo on that!!! Relax!!
> ...


I have to ask you, do you know that theives now use a device that scans your ID and credit card as well as any other cards you have in your wallet by just simply walking within 20 feet of you? Silly to worry about a big company like Michaels scanning, now doesn't it.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> They can hack, they can steal, they can own a device that scans your driver license and any credit cards you have in your possession if you walk by them within 20 feet.


I am pretty sure a device like that does not exist.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Tresperros said:
> 
> 
> > zetster said:
> ...


That would be a myth.


----------



## MaryLBP (Jan 2, 2012)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > They can hack, they can steal, they can own a device that scans your driver license and any credit cards you have in your possession if you walk by them within 20 feet.
> ...


It ABSOLUTLEY does! Her is ONE device....

Skimmer.

A credit card skimmer is a portable capture device that is attached in front of or on top of the legitimate scanner. The skimmer passively records the card data as you insert your credit card into the real scanner.

Credit card thieves will often temporarily affix the card skimmer device to gas pumps, ATMs, or other convenient self-service point-of-sale terminals. The bad guys like gas pumps and ATMs because they are easy to retrieve their skimmers from and they generally receive a lot of traffic.

Skimmer technology has become cheaper and more sophisticated over the years. Some skimmers capture the card information using a magnetic reader and use a miniature camera to record you typing in your PIN number. Some skimmers will even go so far as to place a secondary keypad over top of the actual keypad. The secondary keypad captures your PIN number and records it while passing your input to the real keypad.

How can you detect and avoid having your credit card skimmed at the ATM or gas pump?

1. Inspect the card reader and the area near the PIN pad

Many banks and merchants realize that skimming is on the rise and will often post a picture of what the real device is supposed to look like so you will see that there is something attached that is not supposed to be there if a skimmer is present. Of course, a card skimmer could put a fake picture over the real picture so this isn't a fail-safe way to spot a skimmer.

To see what some skimmers look like check out these examples of card skimmers so you'll have an idea of what to look for.

Most skimming devices are designed to be temporarily affixed to the ATM or gas pump so they can be easily retrieved by the bad guys once they've collected a batch of cardholder data.

If you think the scanning device doesn't look like it matches the machine's color and style, it might be a skimmer.


----------



## Laura R (Apr 14, 2011)

PearlofGreatPrice said:


> tamarque, that is just it, little by little is less noticable just like the frog in the water, by the time the temperature is TOO hot it's TOO late to do or say anything about it.


Well, I've read 5 pages and you finally said what I've been thinking - about the frog in the water. This thread isn't about Michaels. as much as an unreasonable invasion of privacy, which is now an in-your-face practice. The frog is now fully cooked.

Each of us just needs to decide how badly we want any product and what we're willing to give up for it.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Tresperros said:
> ...


It would be in your best interest to educate yourself. I thought this was common knowledge. All types of these are available in all forms. It would be LOVELY if, as you have said before researching this that it WERE a MYTH!

How to Stop Credit Card Fraud
How Credit Cards Can Be Abused If They Fall into the Wrong Hands

Print this article

Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) Systems

A thief cannot scan "conventional" credit cards through the walls of a purse. He can, however, target a new generation of credit cards that use "hands-free" RFID technology. Designed to save consumers time at the checkout counter, hands-free credit cards can be read by the register from a range up to 18 inches.

Each hands-free credit card contains a small device called a "passive RFID tag." This tag consists of a coil of flattened wire connected to a tiny electrical circuit. When a magnetic field of a radio waves strikes the coil, it induces an electrical current within the coil's metal. This electrical energy is collected as voltage inside the card's circuit. Once a certain amount of voltage has been collected, the energy is released into a separate part of the circuit where it is converted into a pattern of electrical pulses. Note: each card produces its own, unique pulse pattern, which contains coded account information.

When this pulse pattern flows back through the coil, it causes the coil to emit a radio wave containing the exact same pattern. Finally, this radio wave is received by a specially-calibrated antenna located inside the register's scanner.

How Thieves Exploit RFID Credit Cards

Radio waves easily penetrate most materials, including glass, brick, fabrics and wood. Therefore, thieves will place RFID scanners inside coats, briefcases, purses and other non-metal containers and simply move through a crowd. The hidden scanner is designed to emit the same radio wave frequency as a checkout counter RFID scanner. When these "impostor" waves pass through the wall of a purse and strike the hands-free card, the card will emit its account-information-containing radio signal back.

This signal passes through the wall of the purse, across the air, past the wall of the hidden scanner's container and into the scanner's receiver. The receiver is attached to a circuit that saves the signal as a data file. Back at home, the thief retrieves the data file and starts buying merchandise online with your credit card information.

Read more: How Do Thieves Scan Credit Cards in Your Purse? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5772197_do-scan-credit-cards-purse_.html#ixzz1sVjmKghq


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > They can hack, they can steal, they can own a device that scans your driver license and any credit cards you have in your possession if you walk by them within 20 feet.
> ...


Just google it.... certainly you have access to the internet. It DOES exist, has for many years and is used by thieves. I am pretty sure you should become more informed in order to better protect yourself.

Wireless identity theft, also known as contactless identity theft or RFID identity theft, is a form of identity theft described as "the act of compromising an individual's personal identifying information using wireless (radio frequency) mechanics."[1] Numerous articles have been written about wireless identity theft and broadcast television has produced several investigations of this phenomenon.[2][3][4] According to Marc Rotenberg of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, wireless identity theft is "a pretty serious issue" and "the contactless (wireless) card design is inherently flawed".[5]

Efforts are currently under way to educate consumers as to the vagaries of Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) which can pose a threat, as well as attempting to initiate legislation to limit the use of RFID technology by companies and governmental agencies.[citation needed]


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

No way. Unnecessary, risky, surprising. There is no need for license info, they have a credit card, enough. I think there is a consumer policy about returns, regardless of what the store tries to dictate. Thanks for the info, I will ask next time. Not sure I did a return at Michael's. 
Often people buy one extra yarn, part of the process. I have traded or returned at JoAnn's, and when I ask, they say "oh, sure, bring it back."


----------



## imom (Oct 25, 2011)

I just renewed my Canadian Licence and the girl said I should NOT let anyone scan it. Once it is in a computer system who knows where it might end up. She was also very insistent that I tear up my temporary licence once the new one arrived. It is illegal in Canada to have more than one copy of your driving Licence. Isn't scanning just making a copy?


----------



## margie1992 (Apr 27, 2011)

To me this seems to be an issue between verifying the information and scanning, capturing and storing the information. I am always ready to produce my ID for verification, but storing the information is another matter.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Tresperros said:
> ...


By the way, HandyFamily, they even sell wallets to help protect from this ACTUALITY, NOT a MYTH! My husband owns one of these since he is aware of this problem and RFID technology which is very REAL and no MYTH!

RFID Blocking Wallet
Your Fellow Smart Masses Also Bought:

RFID Blocking Passport Billfold
More comfortable than aluminum foil in your pants.
Built in Faraday cage to block RFID transmissions 
Room for 6 credit cards, cash, ID, & business cards 
Made from high quality leather
Read more...

$19.99

In stock 
Please select...Black $19.99

Quantity:

Main Description

More comfortable than aluminum foil in your pants.

There's some seriously scary stuff out there in the world -- from bird flu and terrorism to depleting our planet of natural resources. There's not a lot that the average person can do about much of the things that may keep us up at night. Luckily, there's one scary prospect on the horizon that we can help with -- and it doesn't require lining your pants with aluminum foil! Aren't you lucky?

Imagine if you will, some of these possible real-life scenarios:

A shadowy character crouches unseen in the bushes. He doesn't have a gun or a knife, but he has a laptop. He watches as his prey walks by. Invisible radio waves emitting from the credit-card in his wallet get picked up by the laptop, recorded, and saved onto a cloned card. For all intents and purposes, this man becomes you, and has decided to go shopping.

Or maybe he picked up the passkey that lets you into your office building. With ease, he can now walk into your secure office building and steal your company's equipment. The next morning, security guards are waiting in your cube to have a chat.

The nightmare scenario was brought forth recently - a bomb lies waiting in a garbage can. Sensitive electronics read the identification cards and passports of the people who walk by, waiting until somebody of your nationality comes close...

It's a scary world out there. Credit card companies and governments are putting RFID chips in your cards and identification, sometimes without your knowledge. Protect yourself and your money with a wallet that specifically inhibits those radio frequencies from escaping until you pull your card out. Did we mention you don't need to put foil in your pants? It's important to us that you know that you do NOT have to put foil in your pants. Very important. No foil. In your pants... none... zip... nada.

The DIFRwearR RFID Blocking Wallet is a high-quality leather billfold with a built in Faraday cage to block RFID transmissions. It has room for six credit cards, your cash, business cards and your ID. Don't get caught unprotected.


----------



## hajra (Sep 5, 2011)

I return stuff there and this is not a new policy, they do scan the DL, as it is done in lot of other stores.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

The birth date is on the license. No need for anyone to have that. The shoplifting thing is what I thought of, big problem, but I go with a receipt. No returns without a receipt should be legal. 
I was in a dressing room at Macy's, upscale enough, and on the floor were price tags that had been cut off the garments. Lots of them. Llot of nerve. Next there will cameras in the dressing rooms.


----------



## Labrys (Feb 23, 2012)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


More and more stores are going this route. You see, they likely all share a common third party processor for returns; they keep track of how MANY returns you have in a given time. If you have whatever they deem "too many", you will be told you cannot return any more items for a set period of time.

Apparently, in tough times, stores do not want their sales figures decreased by returns and this is to limit the amount they refund. Someone on a political blog I frequent suggested you insist they use your passport (if you have one) as ID ---it is absolutely legal ID but NOT scannable by most store equipment.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I think the stores have a right to see if your name on the license is the same as your credit card, signature too. 
But the member reported that Michael's want to SCAN the license. Not acceptable.


----------



## Labrys (Feb 23, 2012)

Karena said:


> I think the stores have a right to see if your name on the license is the same as your credit card, signature too.
> But the member reported that Michael's want to SCAN the license. Not acceptable.


As I explained, this is a relatively new thing and has less to do with identification and more to do with keeping track of returns.
IKEA does this now as well, as do other stores.


----------



## hannabavaria (Sep 25, 2011)

When they can hack into Pentagon computer, what makes us think that Michaels is qualified to safeguard our personal/private information??? "How long are they keeping it/who else has access to it?" are questions in the news today, re. US (Dept of Homeland Sec.)collecting info from (EU) airlines (in add. to DL= CRcard, (rel-bas) food choices, physical handicap...)Already beeing done here since 2004.
If I don't agree w./ their pol., I don't force my $ on them by shopping there. $ talks--vote w./your $! If you can shop w./o. cust. serv., you can also shop online.


----------



## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

Laura R said:


> PearlofGreatPrice said:
> 
> 
> > tamarque, that is just it, little by little is less noticable just like the frog in the water, by the time the temperature is TOO hot it's TOO late to do or say anything about it.
> ...


Yes, we are all slowly getting "cooked". It is not about Michael's policy. They do have a business to protect - but slowly individual rights are becoming nonexistant.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I wouldn't mind a chip in me if it got me thru the airport lines faster. The dogs and horses don't mind theirs. 
What a world, huh?


----------



## Labrys (Feb 23, 2012)

I refuse to fly. I refuse any chip. 

Convenience is not worth a lack of personal privacy.


----------



## Toby's Mom (Dec 8, 2011)

Karena said:


> I think the stores have a right to see if your name on the license is the same as your credit card, signature too.
> But the member reported that Michael's want to SCAN the license. Not acceptable.


EXACTLY.
The thread has obviously deteriorated into condescending comments, being chastised and belittled for having an opinion. Can we please not just express our opinions without trying to teach others how to use their brains ladies?
This thread started as a legitimate concern some had about the requirement of a COPY being made. Some take exception, some dont, for a variety of reasons. We all know we can choose to do business with Michaels or NOT, but to be made to feel as though we are brainless ladies, is a WHOLE different matter.


----------



## mernie (Mar 20, 2011)

And I get mad when they ask for my zip code. That is just terrible and I won't do that Good that you let us know.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't know why I can't get through. I think I will quit after this. Michaels is not "cooking" anyone nor trying to take away our constiutional rights. They are simply trying to protect themselves within the confines of the law. We live in a free country. You have the RIGHT to choose where to shop, whom to let scan your license and what policies you agree or disagree with. Don't let them scan your license if you don't WANT to let them, but don't think this will "protect" you. It simply will not. There are all kinds of people out there, many ways to obtain your information and this is CLEARLY NOT Michaels goal. They don't want your information, it is THEIR RIGHT to protect themselves. Just as it is YOUR right not to shop there, not to make returns, not to give your drivers license to ANYONE to copy. 

It is a wonderful world of technology and endless information and options and possibilities. As with anything else, with advantages, there is a downside.... you have to protect yourself from those who would do you harm. Plain and simple.

I have to add here that being "legally forced" to purchase healthcare whether I want it or not IS unconstitutional and DOES take away my rights because it is taking away my choice! That is another subject in itself, but just simply saying ANYONE is "taking away your rights" by asking to scan your license should you CHOOSE to shop there and should you CHOOSE to make a return is CLEARLY NOT a violation of our rights as US citizens and it is 100% legal and constitutional.

That is all I will say on this subject. If you don't understand by now, you never will, I am afraid. Very sad.


----------



## MaryLBP (Jan 2, 2012)

andyjmcc said:


> The elderly still know their rights vs 'common store practices' and they get it when the store managers are OLD ENOUGH. Our generation can't just sit back and take it. They've been pulling the wool over our eyes gradually over the last 30 years or so!!! I used to think BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING was a silly thing to think---but now I think we've given up too many rights and freedoms in our generation for the future
> EACH generation of BABY BOOMERS has paid more at the checkout and has had less rights. Monopolies are now guarded for us at a higher level because we haven't been able to do it ourselves like the older generations.


A few years ago I went to a temporary service for some work and I had to sign a paper giving my authorization to check some place where every bit of information had been collected on individuals, I asked the person if she had read "1984" (of course she had not) and refused to give my ok and walked out.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Tresperros said:


> Karena said:
> 
> 
> > I think the stores have a right to see if your name on the license is the same as your credit card, signature too.
> ...


People are saying it is a violation of their rights. By saying "use your brains" I am urging people to think, to understand no one is forcing them to shop at Michaels, to make a return or to allow their license to be scanned. THINK about your ACTUAL rights.... your right to choose where to shop, to make a return and your right to choose to hand over your ID to be scanned. Think about the reason Michaels (and virtually ALL major retailers in the event that you don't realize that this is common practice) is ASKING to scan your ID. Think about the fact that you are really not protecting yourself at all.... people can scan your credit card and license when it is in your pocket or wallet for goodness sake. THINK about what you are saying when you accuse a store of infringing on your rights. They are NOT. It is your right to choose where to shop, to make a return or not or to hand your ID to the cashier to be scanned or not.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. To those who have the OPINION that Michaels (or any other store who has the same policy) is violating your rights in any way shape or form is clearly mistaken. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHOP ANYWHERE YOU CHOOSE.... Michaels cannot take away your rights!

Best advice I can give is to educate yourself on the subject of fraud, and identity theft to protect yourself. I would strongly suggest that the member who said RFID was a "MYTH" and non-existent "use her brain" I guess is offensive or condesending to some, I don't know why... use your "smarts" I guess... to become more informed on that REAL threat. And also suggest use your "smarts" to think about the fact that NO ONE is taking away your rights. It is EVERYONE'S RIGHT to protect themselves. Us from identity theft AND retailers from theft and fraud.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Passport? Interesting. I hang on to that thing as if it were gold.
Guess it is in some countries. 
I have cut back and will discontinue using credit cards on the net. Just signed up for some protection program against identity theft. 
Now I am going to go stuff my wallet with foil.


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

I am sure they are tracking repeat returns. After a few times they may not allow you to return things.


----------



## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

The little strip holds all kinds of info on you. I know that the military ids hold your medical info as well. I think the drivers licenses holds more than you think. With it being scanned it tells someone everything about you.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I think consumer protection laws state you have a right to return, with a reciept. If I am wrong, I never ran into a problem. 
If the store states no return, that may be okay. 
Buying home goods, I always ask. I think the stores made more money on me allowing returns. If I am not sure, I don't buy. Most of the time what I buy works, so I don't return.


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

As a former employee of our local Michael's store I am appalled at the customer service they have or I should say lack of customer service. If I would have treated a customer the way they do now I would have been fired on the spot. Nothing makes me angrier than being told "I DON'T KNOW". It was part of our job to know a little something about every department and if we could not answer a question we would take the customer to the person who ran said department. Needless to say I do NOT shop there unless I HAVE to!


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Fortunately, our Michael's, two about the same distance from, me, are very nice. Sorry about yours. I do like their own yarn. Our Michael's stores seem to have a larger selection than JoAnn's, plus a full inventory. I think JoAnn's has cut back, at least in my area. Of course, So. CA isn't know for cold weather either.


----------



## lvsroses (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree with this..too much information that can get into wrong hands. All it takes is 1 smart disgrunteled employee to cause hell in your life. My son's identity was stolen through his driver's lisence and it took years for him to prove who he was and not the person who stole it and got into trouble with the law. Thank goodness for finger prints.


----------



## gourmetgranny (Jun 15, 2011)

FYI If they can obtain all the information from the DMV file then it is tooooo much, i.e. you SS# DOB any anything else you had to provide to get the driver's license. I would object strongly and ask how they can by-pass the Privacy Laws.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


Wow--cross Michaels off unless you are absolutely sure of not returning, probably is their goal anyway. Haven't read everyone's responses yet but this is retail bullying--no way will they scan my license, no reason for them to do so unless they accepted a personal check from and want to prevent fraud. But some states use your SS# for the license number, which raises a lot of red flags.


----------



## breezy622 (Oct 4, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


The school my children attend wanted to scan each child's fingerprint and link it to their lunch account. As the child went through the line they would scan their fingers and it would automatically deduct the money from their lunch account and keep track of their food choices. This would eliminate the responsibility of the child to keep track of their lunch money or punch card. Enough parents threw a fit and they never implemented it. I've always packed my childrens' lunches anyways....


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

lvsroses said:


> I am sure they are tracking repeat returns. After a few times they may not allow you to return things.


yes, retailers have done that for years but this can be done without asking for a DL. having worked retail as an employee and as a store owner you do need to keep your losses down and being aware of fraudulent customers is important, however, upsetting your real customers is not the way to go.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


They have been doing this since last year. I was in BTR for Xmas and returned a pair of needles and they wanted my DRs. Lic. I told them I did not live in the USA so I did not believe that it applied to me. What is with this Drs. Lice business anyway. Do they have the legal right to do so just because you are returning merchandise. No wonder there are so many identity thefts around.


----------



## crjc (Jun 17, 2011)

gourmetgranny said:


> FYI If they can obtain all the information from the DMV file then it is tooooo much, i.e. you SS# DOB any anything else you had to provide to get the driver's license. I would object strongly and ask how they can by-pass the Privacy Laws.


I agree with you. She wasn't fooling when she replied that she could get everything from your DL.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Karena said:


> The birth date is on the license. No need for anyone to have that. The shoplifting thing is what I thought of, big problem, but I go with a receipt. No returns without a receipt should be legal.
> I was in a dressing room at Macy's, upscale enough, and on the floor were price tags that had been cut off the garments. Lots of them. Llot of nerve. Next there will cameras in the dressing rooms.


There ARE cameras in the dressing rooms! Been in practice for at least 20+ years. Department stores selling designer clothes have a really big problem with theft and a female for womens and male for mens fitting rooms are monitored. Retailers do put up with a lot from the public and with the slow economy now verging onto another decade has created angry attitudes and they take it out on retailers. Glad I'm not there anymore--it was tough enough in the past when the economy was good.


----------



## clavettek (Oct 22, 2011)

Target does this it ou dont have your sales reciet it shows them it yor do it all he time. More than 3 and they wont do the return


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Karena said:


> Passport? Interesting. I hang on to that thing as if it were gold.
> Guess it is in some countries.
> I have cut back and will discontinue using credit cards on the net. Just signed up for some protection program against identity theft.
> Now I am going to go stuff my wallet with foil.


An ounce of prevention is worth it. For the internet I use Paypal--and there are others, so that I don't need to give my debit card at every place I buy--just PP. Don't have credit cards....best thing I ever did.

One other precaution: not many of us are aware of but if you keep valuables in your car, go to a shopping mall, and use your remote to lock your car, you just may find your computer or whatever, missing with no break-in or obvious theft. That is because a cell phone can be used to unlock your car seconds after you lock it--the cell phone picks up the signal and the signal is bounced back. So, especially in a shopping mall, hit the lock button inside your car and don't use your remote--a practice I have used for years.


----------



## sunansand101 (Mar 6, 2011)

I was in line at a Michael's last year when a man tried to return some art pencils. The clerk was giving him a hard time because he didn't have a receipt. At first I thought she was being rather petty, until I overheard that two pencils were over $20...EACH!!!!. Seems he had been in there the previous week trying to do the same thing. The manager escorted him out when he asked to speak to her. Quite a free show to break up a long wait in line.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Right, good for you. If the child cannot remember a card, put a little bracelet on, necklace lunch card. What would the cost of a fingerprint reader cost a school. Packing the lunch is the best and most likely the most healthier. 
However, many children arrive with no breakfast, no lunch, no money and no card. I worked at a shcool that did away with low-income, free lunch cards, just better to feed everyone. I would rather see tax dollars spent on feeding than scanning anyway.


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

Karen K Turner said:


> I don't think Michaels is trying to spy on anyone. I was an assistant manager for a large grocery chain for several years. People return all kinds of items, some stolen, some misused I know a realator that buys items from hobby stores to stage homes she has on the market and then returns the items once the house has sold. I think they are simply trying to disuade people from returning illgotten gains. If they can not return them they won't steal them.


 I can attest to the fact of people using items to stage there house for sale. How do I know ? my younger son was looking for a home it was being sold buy the owner so she did the appointments the house sold (sold sticker) and guess who I saw in line at customer service with a bed in a bag set? The home owner!She definately saw me. I reported her sorry. that is like using Christmas decorations and returning them boxing day isn't it? I worked in a store where excellent customer service was expected ( I like that)
BUT you wouldn't believe what people try to return one woman about 30 brought in a bathing suit back in Sept saying she never wore it and wanted to return it.She must have worn it alot in a pool with high chlorine as the lycra in the fabric was giving out , I'v had that happen with the pool at my old house.
then there was a mom of a teenager mid June trying to return shoes that had the soles really scuffed up (like she had been dancing on the road) claiming she bought them for her daughter and she had,nt worn them as they did'nt fit. yah right.
99% of the people are honest people with honest issues with a product and deserve a full refund or
credit.
My printer/scanner went weird this past weekend so I called customer service Monday for the product because it was still under the manufacture warranty . The woman I spoke to was really nice gave me all the info on how to return it at no cost to me,the new printer would be sent in 7 to 10 days guess what? the new printer arrived on Wed morning!! AND it was new not refurbished way to go Epson


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

breezy622 said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > sam07671 said:
> ...


Off topic: Using fingerprints is the way of the future--we can't protest everything new and it is a secure way of handling money, paying bills, allowing entrance to buildings/storage rooms, etc. There is a lot of bullying in schools these days and having your child carry money or a paid lunch card opens the possibility of being beaten by these bullies which is an increasing problem. Making your child's lunch, of course, eliminates that problem, but lunches can be stolen too.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> deshka said:
> 
> 
> > going to Snopes.com,
> ...


I agree the internet is wonderful, if you can see the information between the ads. Just wanted to point out that Snopes is not the only web site out there that researches waves of rumors--all I can say is I do use these sites to get the true picture and sometimes check it out further. The latest frightening email that went around was the Michigan hog "farmers" story which was a farce--no farmers just some hunting crazed people offering a "real-life" experience hunting exotic big game with high powered rifles--ouch living next to them.


----------



## i knit (Jan 17, 2011)

thanks for the heads up never heard of this!


----------



## eneurian (May 4, 2011)

as someone who has endured the horror of having identity stolen...twice...anyone with a bit of computer savvy can get any information on anyone. the swipe of your driving license just makes it easier.
i will never have acredit card or be able to buy a house or a new car or purchase anything on credit due to the damage done by the identity thieves. my credit rating is red flagged and anyone who checks it assumes i am the thief not the real person. 
i give noe one any information and i never sign my name the same way twice. my life is ruined forever. there is no way to repair what was done to me my identity theft.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Karena said:


> Right, good for you. If the child cannot remember a card, put a little bracelet on, necklace lunch card. What would the cost of a fingerprint reader cost a school. Packing the lunch is the best and most likely the most healthier.
> However, many children arrive with no breakfast, no lunch, no money and no card. I worked at a shcool that did away with low-income, free lunch cards, just better to feed everyone. I would rather see tax dollars spent on feeding than scanning anyway.


definitely agree--we live is a difficult world now with so many new immigrants struggling to form a new life, or both parents working with little time getting their children off to school, or single parents struggling to make ends meet, what better way to help by providing healthy school lunches. It is really difficult to understand when a community continuously votes down any improvements to schools, if not the reverse.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

sunansand101 said:


> I was in line at a Michael's last year when a man tried to return some art pencils. The clerk was giving him a hard time because he didn't have a receipt. At first I thought she was being rather petty, until I overheard that two pencils were over $20...EACH!!!!. Seems he had been in there the previous week trying to do the same thing. The manager escorted him out when he asked to speak to her. Quite a free show to break up a long wait in line.


That's their (retailers) biggest problem returning stolen goods and that is why many retailers make you fill out a return slip and you are sent a check or refunded other ways. Returning stolen goods has been going on for centuries, nothing new and people are becoming more and more clever at it. Expl. a friend worked for a hardware company that sold to retail stores. Small appliances that were returned for a small defect were sold in an employee store for really low prices instead of trashing them. That ended when someone started returning these appliances at stores for refunds--so this little perk ended--one person ruined it for everyone. This happened over 30 years ago.


----------



## Knit Diva (Apr 17, 2011)

I work retail and it is our policy to ask for a "goverment issued photo ID" for Returns. Just like someone already stated...we have so many fraudulent/questionable Returns. Those who make it an "illegal business" of returning sometimes stolen items it is hoped to be a deterrent.It is a Red Flag for us...which I am very happy to say! 
I am still of the "old school" and try to make wise choices.."you buy it, you own it" is my motto, I almost never Return. I have been known to have bought two of the same at different times...I keep them! oh well! I should pay more attention when spending my hard earned dollars!


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I never try on clothes without the original sales tag attacked. I noticed some jeans at Penney's, my size, that had half a ticket pinned on and the front of the jeans wrinkled as though someone wore them. Really. Those should be donations since Penney's can afford it and get value with the tax deduction. 
Having a realtor return home items is odd. There should be a shorter return time window.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree, signing a return with my name is enough. I suspect eBay is the biggest pusher of stolen good. What an outlet. At least the thieves have to do some work for the money.


----------



## ladybuys (Jan 14, 2011)

Hello, Last I heard a department store could not as for you Drivers License????? I will have to check this out.
It is getting harder and harder to return at Michael's. I took back some yarn I had purchased, had my receipt, and was within their time limit. That yarn was on sale at the time and I only want to exchange the same yarn for another color. Michael's too back my yarn with not problem but wanted to sell me the same yarn at the regular price and not the sale price. Isn't there something written about "Honoring the Sale Price???? This was just an exchange. I know, for a fact, that Joann's with take your return and honor the sale price. Let's here from some Michaels people out there!!!!!!!!!


----------



## hannabavaria (Sep 25, 2011)

jejazzington said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


It's better than cash--don't have to haul it to the bank!


----------



## Sbrumm (Mar 6, 2011)

Hi there: I'm in Lafayette, IN. The last time my husband and I had our driver's license renewed they asked for everything. I even had to prove I was my husband's wife with a marriage license. Everything was scanned and is now on our driver's license in which we carry. They told us that in a few years everyone will have had to have everything on them. So my dear friends, please protect your license like it was gold.


----------



## JuneS (Nov 3, 2011)

In Illinois, if you have the driver's license number you can go to a Secretary of State's office and get their driving record. I do this for the company I work for when we update our authorized drivers list for our insurance renewal. No one ever asks for my identification or what I want it for!! All you do is pay a small fee for the print out.

June



courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


----------



## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

Myself, I don't return yarn. If I don't use it all, it goes in my stash, which keeps growing. )


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

ladybuys said:


> Hello, Last I heard a department store could not as for you Drivers License????? I will have to check this out.
> It is getting harder and harder to return at Michael's. I took back some yarn I had purchased, had my receipt, and was within their time limit. That yarn was on sale at the time and I only want to exchange the same yarn for another color. Michael's too back my yarn with not problem but wanted to sell me the same yarn at the regular price and not the sale price. Isn't there something written about "Honoring the Sale Price???? This was just an exchange. I know, for a fact, that Joann's with take your return and honor the sale price. Let's here from some Michaels people out there!!!!!!!!!


If you write a check, expect to produce your DL. Stolen checks have been used frequently especially if the DL is also stolen. I remember a fidgety customer writing a check and when asked for the DL she held her thumb over the picture, when I pulled it away it was obviously the DL had a replacement pic inserted, when I said I couldn't authorize the sale without a security approval she disappeared in a hurry--amateur to say the least. Times have changed and writing checks and presenting DLs is no longer a safe way to go. However some retailers will now scan your check and a security authorization with your bank is automatic--it's like using a debit card. That's why it is so important to make you bank the #1 place to call if your purse or wallet is stolen.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


You are fortunate living in a country where people can still be trusted. Crime has become so high, especially in cities, here in the US that retailers are constantly trying to stay ahead of big losses due to theft and fraud. Desperation has created very clever ways to fraud retailers and it is unfortunate but honest customers end of being subjected to stringent methods and returns are the most protected. We just need to shop more carefully and avoid returns. Glad you could join us.


----------



## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

I don't understnnd why we're always giving our IDs out for everything and yet undocumented aliens don't have to give any info!


----------



## Annielourn (Sep 21, 2011)

I agree with Courier 770. Theft is huge problem and causes the stores great loss. The customers benefit when stores don't have to raise prices to cover their losses due to theft. My nephew-in-law worked in store security for awhile at a department store. You wouldn't believe the stories he has to tell!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

AnyKnits said:
I have to add here that being "legally forced" to purchase healthcare whether I want it or not IS unconstitutional and DOES take away my rights because it is taking away my choice! 


The problem I have with that is when you don't have insurance and need hospitalization and you can't pay for it everyone else has to pay for it. Somehow doesn't seen fair either does it?


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> AnyKnits said:
> I have to add here that being "legally forced" to purchase healthcare whether I want it or not IS unconstitutional and DOES take away my rights because it is taking away my choice!
> 
> The problem I have with that is when you don't have insurance and need hospitalization and you can't pay for it everyone else has to pay for it. Somehow doesn't seen fair either does it?


I totally agree. I have always had health insurance. I also believe that everyone SHOULD carry health insurance. I resent the fact that MY premiums are higher as well as my medical costs as a result of uninsured persons seeking medical assistance and not paying for it.

However, this is not the answer... government MANDATED insurance? Unconstiutional. No one, including our President has the right to tell me how to spend my own money. If I CHOOSE to get a job, I must pay taxes. If I CHOOSE to drive a car, I am required to have car insurance. I should not be mandated to buy health insurance just because I am American. It is just the wrong way to go about fixing our healthcare system.

In addition, there will ALWAYS be those who choose not to follow the rules. You ARE required to have auto insurance if you drive a car.... we all know there are lots and lots of people driving around without insurance. How much will it cost to (attempt to) enforce this? People who continue to not follow the rules and not pay for the insurance will, ultimately get sick, go to the hospital and we will STILL get stuck footing the bill. THAT bill and the bills for the implementing the law, enforcing the law, government agencies set up for this purpose, etc. Makes no sense.

How the heck did we get here from a new return policy at Michaels? I think I must have ADD. Seriously, I was on a thread yesterday about a sweater and ended up posting photos of my dogs! I said I wasn't going to talk anymore. Maybe I should listen to myself. lol


----------



## illusionsbydonna (Mar 24, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> Here is Michael's return policy page at their website.
> 
> http://www.michaels.com/Return-Policy/return-policy,default,pg.html
> 
> ...


Many states now embed holograms and stuff in your license card to make them harder to copy.

Today on my favorite local talk radio program they were talking about people using food stamps (here EBT debit cards) to buy what the card allows them to get, then going to the store office and returning things for cash, then going back and buying things not allowed with the original card.. People are always looking for a way to cheat.


----------



## orrn1951 (Jan 11, 2012)

Has the US become a police state? Michaels...really? What next undercover craft police?


----------



## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


My North Carolina driver's license has a lot more than my name, address and photo on it. If stores have trouble with hackers getting the credit card info, what about scanned drivers licenses? I don't mind showing my DL to prove my ID for a transaction, the problem is that they want to scan it, and therefore keep the info in a data base. Now, that is a problem. Retail stores don't seem to have the level of security that banks do. This just seems to be asking for a spike in identity theft. Why wouldn't producing the receipt from the original purchase satisfy loss control?


----------



## Damama (Oct 2, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Just a minute. Big business employees a lot of people in this country. While I'm not the largest fan of Michael's you'll ever come across, retailers have been the victims of shoplifting, return scams, counterfeit bill passers and a host of other crimes.
> 
> These types of crimes rise any time the economy is not good. Loss prevention is a way of keeping costs AND prices down.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## JoyceinNC (Oct 28, 2011)

Elin said:


> I don't understnnd why we're always giving our IDs out for everything and yet undocumented aliens don't have to give any info!


I've actually seen this happen! I would like to know how they sneak around all the required ID also. I don't think fake ID's are the answer here, something else is going on. Stay tuned.......!


----------



## sherimorphis (Oct 11, 2011)

orrn1951 said:


> Has the US become a police state? Michaels...really? What next undercover craft police?


Dairy Queen Police??


----------



## Velmabunny (Apr 18, 2012)

Good to know. Thanks


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

If anyone is concerned about identity theft from the downloading of their driver's license information think about this....How many times have you paid for your lunch out with a credit card? The waiter/waitress takes your card, scans it, and returns it with your bill. How do you know they didn't copy down your credit card information while they were ringing up your bill? We've all made online purchases before. There's no verification of identity when you make purchases online. Your information is already out there just waiting for someone to take it.


----------



## ruth Roxanne (Mar 18, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


I think it is incredible that a state still uses the SSN as the ID #! There should be a code that is not released so that the stores can inform police of scammers and frauds without endangering individuals. Several businesses and government agencies have been hacked so security is always suspect. Hackers like to break security just to show that they can, and some do use the information illegally. However, when security is compromised, the people that have information in the database are informed so that they can watch there credit reporting info and police are also notified so they know you are not part of the criminal group.

I do think that stores need to have there own ID system rather than using sensitive personal info, anyway.


----------



## cezaragoza (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm thinking that if shoplifting and returning the items for money or credit has come to be a problem, they'd like to keep track of who is doing the returns frequently enough that they may be "making a business" of it. Most of us would not dream of doing that kind of stuff, but I've seen a lot of people go to great lengths to do crappy stuff like that... I imagine that is what Michael's might be going after -



sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

I can't understand why someplaces want two forms of ID. I figure if I stole the first one I stole the second one too! My bank gave me fits a while back when I wanted to make a withdrawal from Money Market Acct. I had picture ID, my signature card on file, etc., but still about three guys hovered over the computer asking me a zillion questions, like how much was the last withdrawal I made (I couldn't remember it had been months before), etc. I finally ask them how many 80 year-old-woman were running around town who looked like me and were trying to withdraw from this account. They finally gave me MY money but I was really mad! I appreciate their being careful but think they went to the extreme.


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

I can't understand why someplaces want two forms of ID. I figure if I stole the first one I stole the second one too! My bank gave me fits a while back when I wanted to make a withdrawal from Money Market Acct. I had picture ID, my signature card on file, etc., but still about three guys hovered over the computer asking me a zillion questions, like how much was the last withdrawal I made (I couldn't remember it had been months before), etc. I finally ask them how many 80 year-old-woman were running around town who looked like me and were trying to withdraw from this account. They finally gave me MY money but I was really mad! I appreciate their being careful but think they went to the extreme.


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

oops--didn't mean to stutter on the send button


----------



## d35 (Jan 26, 2012)

You mean Joann's restocks returned skeins that are less than a full skein? How does a shopper buying yarn there protect herself then? That's awful.


----------



## Aunt Nay (Nov 25, 2011)

Well, in addition to name and address there is date of birth, height, weight, hair and eye color. This would make it easier for someone to steal your identity if the store's database is compromised.



courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

Banks dont even scan license without permission. There is no need to scan and let valuable information out on the highway internet! Just like here in Maine, our debit cards got compromised at the grocery store and had to be sent new ones.


----------



## Aunt Nay (Nov 25, 2011)

All very true. You are trusting your info to merchants all the time as well as the government. There is very little about any of us that isn't already out in the ether.



 Redwilley said:


> If anyone is concerned about identity theft from the downloading of their driver's license information think about this....How many times have you paid for your lunch out with a credit card? The waiter/waitress takes your card, scans it, and returns it with your bill. How do you know they didn't copy down your credit card information while they were ringing up your bill? We've all made online purchases before. There's no verification of identity when you make purchases online. Your information is already out there just waiting for someone to take it.


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

I wonder what people that dont have a drivers license do? I have a dear friend that has never had a license. They are not allowed to return defective stuff?


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Just read what has been posted on this subject. Accusations of employee theft, fears of "big brother" and paranoia that defies logic.

Sly thieves have installed "capture" devices on ATM's, on the credit card swipe on gas pumps and YES a few were found in credit card swipe pads within retail establishments. The point is the retailers did not do this. You stand a bigger chance of identity theft occurring for the following reason: people who go through mailboxes to obtain information (get a locking mailbox), on line scams where you get an email that looks like it's from your bank, mortgage company etc.. (don't respond), text messages that "supposedly" came from your banking institution urging you to call the number in the text..don't fall for it.

Go ahead live on the wild side...return that $2.99 skein of yarn and let the nice cashier scan your drivers license...the worst that can happen? You get struck by lightening on the way out the door - the odds of that are very much greater!


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.
> ...


Actually they do. All the time. It's to keep track of socio-economic trends by geographical area.


----------



## funkyknitter (Mar 21, 2012)

gma11331 said:


> I can't understand why someplaces want two forms of ID. I figure if I stole the first one I stole the second one too! My bank gave me fits a while back when I wanted to make a withdrawal from Money Market Acct. I had picture ID, my signature card on file, etc., but still about three guys hovered over the computer asking me a zillion questions, like how much was the last withdrawal I made (I couldn't remember it had been months before), etc. I finally ask them how many 80 year-old-woman were running around town who looked like me and were trying to withdraw from this account. They finally gave me MY money but I was really mad! I appreciate their being careful but think they went to the extreme.


This is being done to prevent elder abuse and fraud. Anytime someone over 80 withdraws large amounts of money from their savings the bank is supposed to be sure that the senior is not being taken advantage of or scammed . Too many elders have lost their life savings.
They do this to my 86 year old father all the time. He finally asked and they said they do this to prevent abuse
of senior citizens with large savings accounts. I hope you feel better about it now, even though it's embarrasing.


----------



## mooma (Jan 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> 
> Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


You're right, some retailers do track "returns" and they do it by using your driver's license. Best Buy is one of them, and if you return an item too many times, they won't let you return the item for a certain length of time, like 90 days. Happened to my husband when he tried to return a tv remote control that didn't work too many times.


----------



## craftymatt2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Isn't this the same company who's credit card machines were stolen or hacked?? I would think they could do a lot of damage, I don't shop their very often, and this would be a big turnoff for me.


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> PearlofGreatPrice said:
> 
> 
> > One of the proposed taxes by this administration wants to tax us for every single time we make a banking trasaction be it debit or credit or to withdraw or deposit cash.
> ...


Thank you!


----------



## ChocolatePom (Feb 25, 2011)

I have had to do returns in a number of stores for a variety of reasons ( didn't fit, gift not what was wanted, wrong size battery for the glasses, wrong color, etc.). Almost all stores request filling out info & your license . When I asked why, was told, to try to track returns. Types of merchandise, as well as how often the same person has to make returns. He also told me that as with my patitular return that day, it was a purchase from another store in another city. Since the Funds were credited back to the originally used debit card ( which I said I was hopeful they could do) I was not considered suspect . My sister was in Ocala when she thought she had found the right size batteries for my glasses. They were not. But, I didn't want her giving up her money for that error . I whipped out my debit card and paid for the correct ones ( wow those 4 little batteries are really pricey !!!!) she didn't have that to spare. Sure glad the light lasts a long while!


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

What exactly do you mean when you say they will scan it?

Verifying your address and license or ID number is OK, but making a xerox or electronic copy of it is illegal according to federal law.


----------



## usafwife (Feb 16, 2012)

I have a friend who works at michael's in my home town. She was complaining about everyone treating HER like crap because she had to follow some new rule, that even she didn't agree with. 

So make sure you bear with the workers! They're often on your side!


----------



## granny1 (Feb 14, 2011)

ginger57 said:


> sam07671 said:
> 
> 
> > Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.
> ...


And in protecting themselves, they are helping to prevent you from paying higher prices due to shoplifters etc. This is only done with cash and debit card returns.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

lostarts said:


> What exactly do you mean when you say they will scan it?
> 
> Verifying your address and license or ID number is OK, but making a xerox or electronic copy of it is illegal according to federal law.


I am not sure what federal law you are speaking about. Here in the US it IS perfectly legal for a company you are doing business with to keep copies of your drivers license and credit cards. Most physicians are REQUIRED by LAW to have these copies on hand should they be audited. Most car rental companies copy your license as well as dozens of others in order to do business with you. Most banks also keep a copy of your driver license. Just an FYI.

Quote from just one legal source answering that question....

It is legal for them to keep copies of that information. If they require a copy of your ID and credit card in order to do business with you and you agree, then nothing illegal has happened. This is the same as when you rent a car- ID and a major credit card to protect the business from losses. If any transactions take place on your credit card account (outside of the charge you already agreed to if you violate your contract) without your consent, then something illegal has happened.

California law demands a copy of your driver license to obtain a gun permit.......

Penal Code section 12077(f)(2) specifically authorizes dealer's to
obtain a photocopy of the purchaser's DMV card in the event the card
cannot be swiped through the reader due to technical limitations.?
OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dipfaq.html

In Federal Bankrupcy court, your photo drivers license is REQUIRED to be photocopied. ( Obviously there is NOT a Federal Law that opposes this if it is indeeed REQUIRED in Federal Bankruptcy Court)

Completed PROOF OF RIGHT TO PAYMENT OF DIVIDEND FROM UNCLAIMED FUNDS,
(CSD 4026) Photocopy of current driver's license (attach to PROOF OF
RIGHT form). If you do not have a current driver's license, other
identification containing a photograph and current address is
required.?
UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT
http://www.casb.uscourts.gov/html/CSD%20Forms/Csd4025.pdf


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

mooma said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> ...


MOST retailers require a scan of a license to make a return... Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Home Depot.... this is NOT new.... most stores do this to prevent fraud. It is COMMON practice.

Of course, you do not have to make a return if you don't want them to scan your driver's license, which, we have already established is NOT a risk because all the info. on your license is already "out there".

Also, if you don't want your license copied or scanned, don't try going to a doctor, hospital, rent a car, get a gun permit, open a bank account, register for college, most government jobs, many non-government jobs...... the list is endless and chances are, at least one business ALREADY has a copy of your license including the DMV which is only as secure as any other company.


----------



## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, I know. Federal law requires that you copy drivers licenses and passports in certain circumstances. It also prehibits you from copying either of those documents.

I didn' say it was logical or not contradictory.

But it IS federal law.

People go into copy shops from time to time asking to have drivers licenses copied. If you do it, you find out they're federal agents, and you get to spend some time in jail.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

lostarts said:


> Yes, I know. Federal law requires that you copy drivers licenses and passports in certain circumstances. It also prehibits you from copying either of those documents.
> 
> I didn' say it was logical or not contradictory.
> 
> ...


Bottom line.... it IS legal for a company you choose to do business with to copy your drivers license.

I am guessing that when you say it is both legal and illegal... I think it would be illegal to copy someone else's license without their express permission. That would be different. I can go into Kinkos and make a copy of my OWN license any day of the week. I also keep a copy of my Grandmother's license to use on her behalf. Obviously it would only be illegal if you were doing it for unscrupulous reasons... the law is perfectly logical... to me, anyways.

In this case, the former applies... it IS legal for businesses such as Michaels to scan and/or copy your license with your permission, which is what they are doing. (and what this thread is referring to, by the way)

In addition, my bank REQUIRES me to have a copy (yes photo copy which I made, myself at home on my copy machine) of my husband's driver's license if I want to cash a check made out in his name. THIS is not illegal... I have his permission to copy his license and use it for ID.


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

I remember being accosted for a driver's license at Michaels last August. It was the cash return of a $3.00 ball of yarn bought the day before. I HAVEN'NT BOUGHT A THING THERE SINCE AND WILL GIVE UP KNITTING BEFORE I PUT A DIME IN THAT STORE UNTIL THEY CHANGE THIS 'BIG BUSINESS BULLYING' - I DIDN'T HAVE TO SHOW PICTURE ID TO BUY - I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO IN ORDER TO RETURN IT. 9( Caps are for emphasis not yelling).


----------



## killashandra (Nov 22, 2011)

My husband is ex-FBI....we have drivers lisences as "proof of identification", they are made to show to people we do business with to prove we are who we say we are. The amount of money lost each year in shop lifting and credit card fraud is staggering. In this economy no business can afford those types of losses and still stay in business. We should all be telling tellers to please check our ID's for every purchase we make to insure someone else has not stolen our identity. It is the first line of defense for stopping people who are not who they say they are and steal from retailers and individuals identities. It is not an insult to be asked for proper identification but a courtesy to keep you and your identity safe.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Right we all pay for shoplifters. 
I was at Rite Aide Drugs today, asked the checker about returns--only without a reciept do they ask for driver's license. Seems fair.


----------



## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

They ask for a receipt when you return items. That's reasonable. Scanning your driver's license is not.

With identity theft rampant, and very little information needed these days, I'd say no. They don't trust us, but we're supposed to trust their employees? I won't be treated like a criminal by Michael's or any other place. They're not that good a store anyway.

Also, Michael's computers were hacked recently. They sent me a warning letter about it, said to monitor my bank account, but offered no recourse if you were a victim of their negligence. It's time we stopped being sheep, and just refuse to keep giving our rights away, one by one.


----------



## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

That's what receipts are for, to prove you bought it. That's all the proof they need.


----------



## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

killashandra said:


> My husband is ex-FBI....we have drivers lisences as "proof of identification", they are made to show to people we do business with to prove we are who we say we are. The amount of money lost each year in shop lifting and credit card fraud is staggering. In this economy no business can afford those types of losses and still stay in business. We should all be telling tellers to please check our ID's for every purchase we make to insure someone else has not stolen our identity. It is the first line of defense for stopping people who are not who they say they are and steal from retailers and individuals identities. It is not an insult to be asked for proper identification but a courtesy to keep you and your identity safe.


Yes shoplifting is a problem, but returning shoplifted items shouldn't be a problem for the store. Many stores have had a No receipt, No return policy for years. That's reasonable, so that is not a legitimate reason to demand personal information.

This new intrusion will not help in any way, so that's not a valid reason why they're doing it

How you can interpret this as a courtesy to keep me and my identity safe is beyond belief.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > AmyKnits said:
> ...


RFIDs *can* be read unknowingly to the owner. Not from 20 feet, but it would make no difference to the one who was subjected to it.
Bank cards are chip cards and can not - physically - be read in any way unless the card is physicaly attached to a reading device.
The easiest (and so much cheaper) way to protect your RFID (you could be using them as keys - for your home or office) would be to just put a few classic keys - iron containing - in front of the card. Or just put a few cads - like 2, 3, 4 - on the same... stack? classifier? wallet? Well, aline them like a pack of cards. This will guarantee nothing can read any meaningful information from any of them.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

breezy622 said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > sam07671 said:
> ...


Yea...
Of course, a simple school id would have the same porous and effect - you know, not even any electronic device, just a piece of cardboard with a picture and name...


----------



## Rose (Jan 22, 2011)

in this state we have our picture on it also. Now with my address, birth date, etc I can make an id with some one else and have it say it's me. it is very easy to steal your Id. be careful .


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Why are some of you assuming that everyone who works in retail is a thief or interested in stealing your identity? Someone even suggested that waiters/waitress' could be "stealing" from you when they take your credit/debit card. "Working" people are not criminals who hold down $8.00 an hour jobs with the intent of emptying your bank account!

The situation with Michael's that occurred, didn't involve "hacking". It involved hardware that was nefariously installed by enterprising thieves to capture credit/debit card information and was caught pretty quickly. No store employees or management were involved.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Why are some of you assuming that everyone who works in retail is a thief or interested in stealing your identity? Someone even suggested that waiters/waitress' could be "stealing" from you when they take your credit/debit card. "Working" people are not criminals who hold down $8.00 an hour jobs with the intent of emptying your bank account!
> 
> The situation with Michael's that occurred, didn't involve "hacking". It involved hardware that was nefariously installed by enterprising thieves to capture credit/debit card information and was caught pretty quickly. No store employees or management were involved.


I don't think all people who would rather have their private documents... private think working people are thiefs...
On the other hand, why does this store chain owners think that everyone who have some reason to return or change an item that had something wrong with it is a thief?
It works both ways...


----------



## bakercdi (Dec 31, 2011)

Umm, here in Ga the driver's license doesn't include your SS# anymore, but now the store and all their peeps with computer access have all the information they need for identity theft--plus your finger print!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

A drivers license is not exactly a private document - nor is any form of "identification". Private documents are personal papers. Birth certificates, State Identification Cards, Drivers licenses, Passports, Military Identification Cards, etc. are forms of identification that YOU provide to others, as proof of who you are. 

All of these items contain either a hologram or embossed seal which cannot be duplicated on a scan...making a scan useless other than for the retailers record keeping.

I think people are getting their panties in a bunch over nothing. 

If you don't like a retailers policy, don't shop there. Very simple.


----------



## YoK2tog (Aug 17, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Employees "lift profits"? Did you really say that? Do you think that everyone who works in the retail industry is a budding thief, not worthy of the common courtesy of trust?


How about the employee at the register that doesn't ring up all the items? or the employee at walmart that doesn't have a clue what items are on sale at other retailers but gives the price to the shopper....aren't both parties involved in a theft???? or the employee that puts mismarked tags on items ....for whatever reason.....isn't that a cut into the profits of the employer. 
So yes the theft in retail is not only a shoplifter walking out of the store with unpaid items.


----------



## loulou (May 17, 2011)

surely this is for people who don't have a receipt, I can't imagine them asking for it unless u don't have a receipt. If so then all they are doing is scanning ur license to get ur information probably to send us flyers of sales. I would not take anything back unless i have a receipt.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

gina said:


> They ask for a receipt when you return items. That's reasonable. Scanning your driver's license is not.
> 
> With identity theft rampant, and very little information needed these days, I'd say no. They don't trust us, but we're supposed to trust their employees? I won't be treated like a criminal by Michael's or any other place. They're not that good a store anyway.
> 
> Also, Michael's computers were hacked recently. They sent me a warning letter about it, said to monitor my bank account, but offered no recourse if you were a victim of their negligence. It's time we stopped being sheep, and just refuse to keep giving our rights away, one by one.


Gina, scanning your license is totally reasonable and makes perfect sense. Just as it is YOUR right to choose to protect yourself by choosing NOT to make a return (or purchase) at one of these stores, it is the stores right to set their own policies, have them posted and to enforce their own policies within the confines of the law.

If you read some other postings, it is COMMON PRACTICE for stores to require a scan of your license to facilitate a return with or without a receipt. I have been asked over the years at Target, Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy, Express and many others for a scan of my license to complete the return.

Perhaps if you understand it is the stores RIGHT to ask for ID and scan it, you will understand. The REASON they ask to scan it is to keep track of the number of returns an individual makes to prevent fraud.

You should also know that most cases you cannot open a bank account, visit a doctor, enter a hospital, register for college, rent a car, virtually DOZENS of other transactions require a scan or photocopy of your license. If you have a bank account, your license is already "out there".

As for "hacking", most any computer can be hacked, including the DMV. Do you think those people behind the window at the DMV have some super-special security pat-downs? Do you think the lady at the Doctor's office who copies your license has ANY security training? (BTW.. I AM one of those ladies, I copy licenses EVERY day and I could walk off with stacks, sorry).

Bottom line... your license is ALREADY out there (even if it is ONLY in the DMV data base and accessible by the DMV employees). Michaels or any other retailer is not trying to violate your rights in any way. They are merely trying to protect themselves.

It is your right not to make returns at Michaels, Best Buy, Walmart, Express, Victoria's Secret, Target, Home Depot or the (most) retailers that require it. We are NOT sheep, we live in a free country. We are free to CHOOSE where to shop, we are FREE to CHOOSE whether or not to hand over our license to be copied. The retailers who operate in our FREE country are FREE to establish their own return policies. They are FREE to require scan of photo ID to facilitate a return. Retailers are FREE to only accept cash.... only accept one credit cards. Stores can choose not to accept returns at ALL.

It is your RIGHT not to visit a doctor, rent a car, apply for a job (yes, most all employers have a copy of your license on file from when they completed the I-9 immigration form), apply to a college, etc. to protect yourself.

Bottom line..... this is NOT NEW. This is not illegal or a violation of your rights in any way shape or form. Your information is already "out there" and has the possibility of being hacked. You needn't worry about having your license scanned by any reputable retailer. If you are, shop elsewhere. But, almost ANY retailer WILL ask to scan your license should you need to make a return.


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Why are some of you assuming that everyone who works in retail is a thief or interested in stealing your identity? Someone even suggested that waiters/waitress' could be "stealing" from you when they take your credit/debit card. "Working" people are not criminals who hold down $8.00 an hour jobs with the intent of emptying your bank account.


.

I work in law enforcement and see "working" people commit crimes every day; embezzlement and other forms of theft being #1 on the list if crimes. I'm not saying everyone is a criminal but for you to think that just because someone has a job means they won't commit a financial or other crime is ludicrous.


----------



## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

My goodness Sam07671, what a stir your post has made - finished a whole cup of coffee just reading quickly through. Our world has changed, like it or not. Identy theft is a problem and I respect all the views I read, discussion is a good thing. It is amazing though that a few seem to express the idea it is their place to educate; even throwing in health insurance in the mix!! I personally rarely return items and but can see both sides to this problem. As for Michaels, sure did appreciate the $1 yarn this week. Everyone have a great day!


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


So what's the purpose of scanning the license?


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

realsilvergirl said:


> But yhey do have a whole scan of your license. In the wrong hands...well....[/quote
> 
> Excellent point.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

I personally feel it is just another invasion of one's privacy. When I go to my bank and cash a check they ask to see my driver's license, BUT they don't scan it!



galaxycraft said:


> Here is Michael's return policy page at their website.
> 
> http://www.michaels.com/Return-Policy/return-policy,default,pg.html
> 
> ...


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

I have no objection to showing my identification, what I do object to is them scanning my ID, if, in fact, that is what they are doing.



shaney63 said:


> Hmm...
> Well every time I've returned merchandise to Walmart I've been asked to show my i.d.. As Courier said, it's to keep ne'er-do-wells from shoplifting then "returning" the item for cash. I've worked in retail sales, and I don't blame them for tightening their policy. It's quite possible with the economy in a slump that they've had a spike in shoplifting and returns.


----------



## tenaj (Feb 22, 2011)

Received this email reply to my question; is it legal to photo copy a passport


Thank you for contacting the National Passport Information Center.

It is legal to make a photocopy of a passport. Who you provide this information to is at your discretion.

For further information, please refer to our website www.travel.state.gov or call (877) 487-2778, for TDD/TTY users 1-888-874-7793 (Mon-Fri 8:00AM to 10:00PM ET; excluding federal holidays). If you need to contact us again by email, please include all prior messages/correspondence in your reply so we can review what has previously taken place.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> jonibee said:
> 
> 
> > I feel when they start to ask you your phone # and your city, zip code is going over board when you're paying cash.
> ...


Absurd the cashier doesn't ask for this information? It isn't absurd. It has happened to me and I have finally refused to give them that information. What I really didn't like was giving one's phone number with other people standing around.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Crazy the way we have to live anymore. Each trip to the hospital - even in the same week or month - all info has to be re-entered. A lot of work for the employees. Sounds like Michaels' is working themselves out of business. I use my debit card and they can just put the money back on that as far as I am concerned - maybe this is for cash back. Some people will do anything to scam a business. When a local town has the yearly Fall Festival I was told several years ago that food stamp people would purchase meat and then return it for cash to use at the festival. They would make sure the meat was spoiled, so they could return it ok. SAD!


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

PS: A cashier is only doing the job she or he is told to and they catch all the flack for the rules that a company makes.


----------



## Elaine Ohs (Jan 27, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


In MA it has your address and your social security number unless you make arrangement to have it changed to another number.


----------



## Hook'em Horns (Mar 6, 2012)

me too!!!! Bought about 100 skeins of sugar and cream to stock me up for awhile!


----------



## Elaine Ohs (Jan 27, 2011)

I think that we have to get used to our private information becoming public with in the very near future. Maybe if you have no bank accounts or credit, stay off the internet and pay all your bill in cash you may have a chance, but I wouldn't count on it. But then there are thousands/millions of people that are more than willing to expose every detail of their personnal life on Facebook and Twitter. It is a new generation and a different head set.


----------



## Chubby (Nov 6, 2011)

California Michael's have been doing this for months now. The magnetic strip on the back of you license has tons of info not just your address and date of birth.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

tenaj said:


> Received this email reply to my question; is it legal to photo copy a passport
> 
> Thank you for contacting the National Passport Information Center.
> 
> It is legal to make a photocopy of a passport. Who you provide this information to is at your discretion.


The interesting question here is is it legal for someone to refuse a service - or, more interesting, to refuse to complete some guarantee provided the customer refuses - as his / her discretion - to provide this information.


----------



## janneygirl (Jul 6, 2011)

courier770 said:


> What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.


Think again. About 10 years ago I took a Private Investigator's course offered at a Community College in Reno, NV. From that one course I learned MANY different ways to "research" a person's background.

Are you aware that several states (including Texas AND Nevada to name only two, and I am sure there are many more) have a FORMULA they use that is hidden inside EVERY DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER from those particular states, and that :

IF you know the formula, you can derive EVEN that person's SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER (to be specific about just one facet) --- and IF you have that formula, ANY PERSON can go to get public information facts about you from different agencies / departments, such as --- a record of your VOTER REGISTRATION history --- what property you own --- how much you paid for it --- the legal description of your property(ies) --- and on, and on, and on.

Should you doubt what I am saying, go on the Internet and type in your name. For a couple of bucks, you can see your legal history, any criminal history, property and personal history, how many members are residing with you and their names and ages and last known address, etc. How did these vendor companies that charge you for access to your own information get this stuff ??? Thru Public Information. They know the formulas. Scarey, 'aint it !!!


----------



## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

Shamrock said:


> So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it?
> 
> Any place that requires a license needs to see the actual license not a copy.


IDENTITY THEFT!!!!! That's what can be done with it. All a person needs is the name and DOB (and in many states that IS on your license). I might let them use my state of licensure info and my license number, which is no longer your SSN for this reason, folks, but not copy the actual card. I'd be asking Michael's home office if this is actually their official policy, and if not, report the store that is doing this.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

cspaen34 said:


> My goodness Sam07671, what a stir your post has made - finished a whole cup of coffee just reading quickly through. Our world has changed, like it or not. Identy theft is a problem and I respect all the views I read, discussion is a good thing. It is amazing though that a few seem to express the idea it is their place to educate; even throwing in health insurance in the mix!! I personally rarely return items and but can see both sides to this problem. As for Michaels, sure did appreciate the $1 yarn this week. Everyone have a great day!


Hmmmm... since the SOLE purpose of this forum is to share ideas, information and knowledge about knitting and knitting related items, I am guessing your time this morning on this topic was well spent. Since the policy of a store where many of us purchase our knitting supplies pertains to this subject, it was worth a discussion on THIS topic.

As for the reference to US healthcare, I believe that reference was to make a point. Yes, sometimes we get off track a bit.... note a picture of my puppy under the heading of how to do a sewn bind off this morning... but I don't belive that to be against the rules of the forum.

I, myself learned several things about RFID that I did not know had it NOT been for this thread. In addition, it prompted me to research the legality of photocopying drivers licences since it is something I do at work EVERY day.

Yes, I agree, this was a great thread, glad you joined in this morning and I sincerely hope you learned something and in the process became a bit more educated. After all... this is the purpose of the forum and WHY we are all here!


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > What information is on a drivers license that isn't on a personal check? It contains your name and address that's all. Not even your phone number and not your email address. Private citizens and business cannot access the data base for Drivers Licenses - only law enforcement.
> ...


Obviously, you have entered the conversation a little late in the game..... let me get you up to speed.........

scanning your license is totally reasonable and makes perfect sense. Just as it is YOUR right to choose to protect yourself by choosing NOT to make a return (or purchase) at one of these stores, it is the stores right to set their own policies, have them posted and to enforce their own policies within the confines of the law.

If you read some other postings, it is COMMON PRACTICE for stores to require a scan of your license to facilitate a return with or without a receipt. I have been asked over the years at Target, Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy, Express and many others for a scan of my license to complete the return.

Perhaps if you understand it is the stores RIGHT to ask for ID and scan it, you will understand. The REASON they ask to scan it is to keep track of the number of returns an individual makes to prevent fraud.

You should also know that most cases you cannot open a bank account, visit a doctor, enter a hospital, register for college, rent a car, virtually DOZENS of other transactions require a scan or photocopy of your license. If you have a bank account, your license is already "out there".

As for "hacking", most any computer can be hacked, including the DMV. Do you think those people behind the window at the DMV have some super-special security pat-downs? Do you think the lady at the Doctor's office who copies your license has ANY security training? (BTW.. I AM one of those ladies, I copy licenses EVERY day and I could walk off with stacks, sorry).

In adddition, thieves have the benefit of many of our licenses and credit cards being encoded with RFID. A thief can scan your license, credit cards, key cards or virtually anything you are carrying with a RFID coded magnetic strip by simply walking near you with the technology in their possession. This technology is ever increasing in the past several years. Thieves can obtain this info. by just walking by you and scanning your credit cards in your pocket!

Bottom line... your license is ALREADY out there (even if it is ONLY in the DMV data base and accessible by the DMV employees). Michaels or any other retailer is not trying to violate your rights in any way. They are merely trying to protect themselves.

It is your right not to make returns at Michaels, Best Buy, Walmart, Express, Victoria's Secret, Target, Home Depot or the (most) retailers that require it. We are NOT sheep, we live in a free country. We are free to CHOOSE where to shop, we are FREE to CHOOSE whether or not to hand over our license to be copied. The retailers who operate in our FREE country are FREE to establish their own return policies. They are FREE to require scan of photo ID to facilitate a return. Retailers are FREE to only accept cash.... only accept one credit cards. Stores can choose not to accept returns at ALL.

It is your RIGHT not to visit a doctor, rent a car, apply for a job (yes, most all employers have a copy of your license on file from when they completed the I-9 immigration form), apply to a college, etc. to protect yourself.

Bottom line..... this is NOT NEW. This is not illegal or a violation of your rights in any way shape or form. Your information is already "out there" and has the possibility of being hacked. You needn't worry about having your license scanned by any reputable retailer. If you are, shop elsewhere. (I am afraid you will have to frequent Mom and Pops or just forgo making returns or exchanges). But, almost ANY major retailer WILL ask to scan your license should you need to make a return.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

mousepotato said:


> Shamrock said:
> 
> 
> > So someone has a copy of your driver's license - what could they possibly do with it?
> ...


Mousepotato, there is no one to report this to. It is completely legal for a retailer to ask for your license in order to facilitate an exchange as it is legal for you to decline the exchange based on this requirement.

You can choose to never let ANYONE copy your license. That is YOUR right. However, don't try making an exchange at ANY major retailer, visit a doctor, open a bank account, be admitted to a hospital, register for college, get a job, rent a car....... the list is endless. That is your choice.


----------



## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> cspaen34 said:
> 
> 
> > My goodness Sam07671, what a stir your post has made - finished a whole cup of coffee just reading quickly through. Our world has changed, like it or not. Identy theft is a problem and I respect all the views I read, discussion is a good thing. It is amazing though that a few seem to express the idea it is their place to educate; even throwing in health insurance in the mix!! I personally rarely return items and but can see both sides to this problem. As for Michaels, sure did appreciate the $1 yarn this week. Everyone have a great day!
> ...


I also just received a private message from AmyKnits with this same message. One of the rules of this forum is to be polite. Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them. It is great to share our ideas but I don't think "preaching" is the same thing, nor is it necessary. I have been a member of KP for some time and do join in; however, many of us are not so vocal, which is ok. After this call down, I will be even less vocal and I do not wish another private message.


----------



## jorice47 (Oct 14, 2011)

Best Buy does the license thing when you make a return, also.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

cspaen34 said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > cspaen34 said:
> ...


I am not sure WHOM you are accusing of not being polite. I have been interested in and involved in this thread from about page 5 and have found no one to be unpolite. I have re-read the pages before I became involved and do not see anything but a lively discussion on this topic.

I sent you a private message to make sure you saw the reply to your joining in to this conversation. I think that IS being polite.

As I said, I learned very much from this discussion and learning is the sole purpose of my joining this forum.

However, if you do feel that you have been treated wrongly, I would suggest sending a note to the Admin.


----------



## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> gina said:
> 
> 
> > They ask for a receipt when you return items. That's reasonable. Scanning your driver's license is not.
> ...


No, they do not have a perfect right. I did not enter into any contract with them granting them that right. Nor was I told at time of purchase that it is their return policy.

I understand perfectly, and know my rights as well. If a store gives me a receipt and I bring it back with the goods, that is proof that I paid.

And there is more information on the magnetic strip than shows on the card. And that is why they want to scan it. To get that information, for marketing, demographics, or even to sell your info to appropriate businesses.

I will never let it be scanned at a retail business. 
And I have never in my life been asked for my license to be scanned.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I stopped at the drug store, Rite Aide, sells lots of items other than pharmacy and meds. They said they also copy the DL when there is no reciept. Good if there is a crackdown on shoplifting. Us honest folk need to hang on to that receipt.


----------



## granny1 (Feb 14, 2011)

Return policy is on the bottom of Michaels receipts and posted in the store. Probably the same in other stores also.


----------



## almondjoy (Jul 26, 2011)

I kind of agree with you sometimes you can't trust cashiers I had a bad experience one I went to the autoparts store I had only 3 100 dollar bills the cashier made change for a 100 with her manager the cost of my item was only $8.00 when she went to give me the change she overshot my hand when I went to pick up the money she replaced one of my hundreds with a $20 I looked in my purse to be sure that there were 2 bills which should have been 2 100 dollar bills. I noticed when I got home and called the manager of course they did not have cameras and I never got my money back but they caught her doing it to someone else she got fired but I don't know if she was arrested. So I think a person should be careful when they are at the cashier and never take their eyes off of their purse or wallet for one second. I learned the hard way.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

I would report her to the police. Maybe she would recognize her "mistake." Make a scene. We are too polite.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Amy, it is who not whom, and implite, not unpolite. l


----------



## Cali (Apr 9, 2012)

I work in fraud prevention/detection for an international online retail store and there are 2 points to consider here... 

First, there is little information that someone cant already get on you regarding address, license #, etc... Unfortunately, the ship has already sailed on that one... but I can understand why some people are uncomfortable with it.

Second, I spend a lot of my time specifically on return fraud.... it is the full time employment for some fraudsters... they actually make a living at it.... a much better living than I make.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

gina said:


> No, they do not have a perfect right. I did not enter into any contract with them granting them that right. Nor was I told at time of purchase that it is their return policy.
> 
> I understand perfectly, and know my rights as well. If a store gives me a receipt and I bring it back with the goods, that is proof that I paid.
> 
> ...


It is good to see there still are people caring the free spirit and sense of justice... People should not voluntarily give up their right just because it is some "small" right and there is not rime to fight back...


----------



## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

If the US driving is like the Australian licence there are other details on the licence ie. Name,Address, DOB, and also a licence number.

I was asked only once to provide my licence after signing my credit card voucher, much to my annoyance. I really let off steam at the young girls and demanded to see a Manager, the Manager on duty was a young girl no more than about 21. I have never been back to that shop.


----------



## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

mavisb said:


> I was asked only once to provide my licence after signing my credit card voucher, much to my annoyance. I really let off steam at the young girls and demanded to see a Manager, the Manager on duty was a young girl no more than about 21. I have never been back to that shop.


I own a small business and take credit cards. My credit card processor requires that I match the names on the credit card to the holder's license.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

What information do you think the magnetic strip contains? The only information it can contain is what has been inputted by DMV or traffic courts. Are you afraid that someone could possibly find out you ran a stop sign in 1986? 

It contains no financial information or employment information.

When a merchant asks to see my drivers license when I present a Credit/Debit card, I always thank them! The clerk generally looks at the photo, then looks at me. This means they are doing their best to detect credit card fraud.


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

I know our Walmart asked for ID when you return something I asked why the answer I got was if you returned items too many times you were "red flagged" I told here a had about 4 returns in the last year mostly clothes for my grandkids (who had the nerve to grow!) as she took my phone number and name she giggled and said for me not to worry at all and that some people bring back that much every 2 weeks!
I guess its to keep an eye on you when you come in so your not shoplifting. No problem for me on that front, the more people steal the more I pay!


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> Crazy the way we have to live anymore. Each trip to the hospital - even in the same week or month - all info has to be re-entered. A lot of work for the employees. Sounds like Michaels' is working themselves out of business. I use my debit card and they can just put the money back on that as far as I am concerned - maybe this is for cash back. Some people will do anything to scam a business. When a local town has the yearly Fall Festival I was told several years ago that food stamp people would purchase meat and then return it for cash to use at the festival. They would make sure the meat was spoiled, so they could return it ok. SAD!


sorry I am posting again on this topic but I have to ask in the USA do your receipts show how you paid/ debit credit cash etc?
Here in Canada you only get your money back the way you paid,so credit goes back on credit and so on,so if the people on food stamps pay that way and return say a roast and they have the receipt why isn't just a credit for the store given?after all the money is to be used for food correct not booze or cigarettes
and is not really "their"money? Its YOU the TAXPAYERS money!
If they don't have a receipt ,the same should be true a credit for food purchases
here we have what used to be called "mothers allowance" for single mothers it was sent out the first of the month and the 20th of the month a "baby bonus" was sent too. Now its called a different name
I worked in a bar/tavern for a few year partime as well as working full time and we ALWAYS put extra staff those weekend as the place was full to the brim with single women spending the TAXPAYERS money that was sent for the kids.
What really pissed me off is my husband worked full time I worked full time and partime to keep body and soul together I was jealous to the fact that they could have a gay old time twice a month on the TAXPAYERS dime and my dh and I could go out maybe once ever 6 months if grandma would babysit as we could't afford a sitter URRRRH this stuff gets my dander up now that I am older I would love to get into politics or something to get these issues addressed


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

A scanner - a regular scanner - can not possibly read the information on the magnetic lent. (I have not seen, really, US driver license, but I assume what you call magnetic strip is a magnetic lent, not any kind of typed information, not even encrypted one. If it were it could not be changed at any point, and unless you need to change your documents each time you get a ticket for something it should be magnetic, not typed information). And this information is not translatable to the file created by a scanner.


----------



## Chubby (Nov 6, 2011)

In the USA most common policy is credit card returns go back to credit cards, cash back as cash, gift card back as merchandise credit. I have returned several items to Michaels WITH a receipt (credit card) and they still want my drivers license and they swipe it like they credit card. I don't give them my credit card since that info is already on the receipt (each reciept has it's own bar code on it). But they are still insisting on getting my drivers license. Walmart will only let you return 4 times a year without a reciept and they use your drivers license to keep track of names of individuals who return consistantly without a receipt. We have the same problem in the USA with individuals getting "government aid" and using it for a good time. We even had a lottery winner ($1 million) who continued to get food stamps and when interviewed said if it was wrong, why didn't food stamps cut her off?


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Not cutting her off the food stamps shows the intelligence of our governments. They let people buy junk food on food stamps and that isn't against the law - at least in Indiana. I would think food stamps should only be used for healthy foods and not for junk at a convenience store or any other store. One couple was at a store where you purchase in bulk and they bought a big box of animal crackers with food stamps. That is why I checked and found out it was legal. Sad what the taxpayers are working so hard to provide.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

kittykatzmom, there is no way that the food stamp/card program can "mandate" that only healthy foods can be purchased.

Animal crackers are pretty benign compared to other items found in most grocery stores and they generally are inexpensive. For all you know that box of crackers may last a week...or even a month. Plenty of people, who pay in cold hard cash, make poor food choices. Most of the people I see, who are using a LINK card, are purchasing "economy" cuts of meat, dried beans and other items that go a long way. Things like bags of apples or oranges instead of the "per pound", bags of fortified cereals rather than boxes of name brand "sugar coated" junk and the dented can bin is always a crowd pleaser.

We have a "cut rate" grocery store here in the town I live in, a "no frills" kind of place (no candy, soda and little "junk" food). I see a lot of people in there using LINK cards for staples.

Are you really going to begrudge a child a couple of animal crackers?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

grandmasheryl said: 

we ALWAYS put extra staff those weekend as the place was full to the brim with single women spending the TAXPAYERS money that was sent for the kids.


There are always going to be those that abuse every situation, but don't forget the many good people that live by the rules. Newt Gingerich once said when talking about people on government assistance "they even have refrigerators. What world is he living in? I have a good friend that received food stamps and assistance for about a year after an illness and long recovery. She was always so ashamed to use her food stamps because people looked at her with disgust because she looked fine. Just remember not to judge people till you walk a mile in their shoes.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

A couple of animal crackers NO - but a whole box at one time - a big box? This is taxpayers money we are talking about. Heck food stamps are used for snacks in convenience stores in Indiana. The children and others need basic food instead of junk all the time - this whole world is so wacky and there are those paying the bills. This couple was also sending a food stamp card to another employee on the line and the guy had on a back brace and the woman didn't look like she would lift anything heavy. My point is that the system is so messed up and it is the government, federal, local and state, that allows these things to continue and get worse.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

"Single women" excuse me the last I knew it takes a male AND a female to create a child. We don't hold father's financially responsible in this country any more, instead it seems we blame, "single women". Get over it! I've been divorced and had to accept the "pittance" of child support the court awarded for my child.


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Due to being injured I am also on food stamps, but I don't waste them on junk. Yes I am also ashamed to use it in my hometown and won't - I will go too a town nearby. It isn't fun to be poor, but to see the people use the food stamps for junk is still a raw spot with me.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> A couple of animal crackers NO - but a whole box at one time - a big box? This is taxpayers money we are talking about. Heck food stamps are used for snacks in convenience stores in Indiana. The children and others need basic food instead of junk all the time - this whole world is so wacky and there are those paying the bills. This couple was also sending a food stamp card to another employee on the line and the guy had on a back brace and the woman didn't look like she would lift anything heavy. My point is that the system is so messed up and it is the government, federal, local and state, that allows these things to continue and get worse.


Don't be so quick to judge. You don't know that these kids are getting "junk all the time." God forbid someone buys a "big" box of animal crackers. How awful, but tell me how do you buy only a couple of animal crackers. People who look down their noses and criticize all the time are part of the problem. What are you doing to make the situation better. If the answer is nothing, then you should not be talking. I raised my two daughters as a single Mom because of my husbands death and I did the best I could with what I had. I now have two beautiful adult daughters, both self reliant good citizens and two wonderful grand children. I am sure I was criticized too just because I was a "single Mom."


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

You really have no idea how long that "big box" of animal crackers is going to last! Just like you have no idea how long that 10# bag of sugar is going to last someone or 10# of potatoes or 25# of flour.

Purchasing in bulk lowers the per ounce cost. Just like you can get 40 rolls of toilet paper at a lower per roll cost than buying 4 at a time!

Animal crackers? You are really going to whine about someone using food stamps/LINK to purchase one of the least expensive snack items? How do you know they aren't using the "treat" to modify behavior? Animal cracker? That's all you really have to complain about???

We live in a country where it's not uncommon for police to have to search garbage dumps for the bodies of children and you are going to complain about a large box of animal crackers? You are going to complain about how "your money" went to pay 1/1000000 of the price of a box of crackers? Really? Tell me you are kidding?


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

What I am complaining about is how the tax dollars are WASTED!


----------



## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

For anyone who cares I have to scrimp EVERY day of my life and have for years! I am not being insenstive, but believe food stamps should be used for healthy foods. The mothers are capable of baking and have far more time than mothers who have to work out of the home - I have also been a single mother at one time without the aid of food stamps and worked every day. I have learned to live on what I have and not what I want in life! NO it isn't any fun!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> For anyone who cares I have to scrimp EVERY day of my life and have for years! I am not being insenstive, but believe food stamps should be used for healthy foods. The mothers are capable of baking and have far more time than mothers who have to work out of the home - I have also been a single mother at one time without the aid of food stamps and worked every day. I have learned to live on what I have and not what I want in life! NO it isn't any fun!


Then you should be the first to not criticize when you really don't know these people and don't live in their home with them. But don't worry. They are trying to cut a lot of programs. If that happens there won't be enough food stamps for everyone that needs them. Then I wonder what will happen to those kids that one time got to enjoy some animal crackers.


----------



## pamgillies1 (Aug 6, 2011)

I would like to know how we got from Michaels returns to Food stamps. Come on girls it's getting too heated here. We have the same sort of problems in the UK and I am sure it is worldwide but let's be friends.
Pam


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

So if you take 4 oz of yogurt and top it with an animal cracker that makes you some sort of criminal? Arrest me now. Face it you don't know know, nor is it any of your business of what people do with the food they purchase..shame on you for being so judgmental!


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

courier770 said:


> So if you take 4 oz of yogurt and top it with an animal cracker that makes you some sort of criminal? Arrest me now. Face it you don't know know, nor is it any of your business of what people do with the food they purchase..shame on you for being so judgmental!


Jesus, Courier! You do like to rant! Give it up. Okay?


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

NO! I'm sorry but someone ranted about a box of freaking cookies...cookies for God's sake! Cookies that they have no idea how long will last. Why not bitch about the massive government waste? Why not bitch about the "bail outs" for multi million dollar industries...no, it's so much easier to complain about a box of stupid cookies!

Complain about the drug addicts who collect SSDI, but a box of cookies for kids? Complain about the tax breaks that the "uber" rich claim every year..oh no that would be too easy..it's much easier to complain about a stupid box of freaking animal crackers! Not crack cocaine mind you..just some cookies, give me a break!


----------



## mamaknits (Mar 18, 2011)

say waht you want re: wal-mart. They are great about returns and do not ask for driver's licenses. Micheal's is not a good company; they fired a friend when she had to take a few days for chemo treatments breast cancer.


----------



## mamaknits (Mar 18, 2011)

say what you want re: Wal-Mart. They are great about returns and do not ask for driver's licenses. Micheal's is not a good company; they fired a friend when she had to take a few days for chemo treatments breast cancer.


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

Re returning yarn - yes it happens a lot where a few yards are "needed" and therefore stolen. I worked in a LYS in California. She kept a scale at the register and in front of the customer weighed each ball. Same on return and she refused one return for that very reason.


----------



## sonsuray (Apr 22, 2012)

Here over the pond - if you have an item to return u have at least a 28 day return policy as long as you have a receipt. If item is faulty or not fit for purpose u can get a replacement, or yr cash back. If u pay by credit or debit card -money is put back on card. If paid by cash - u are given money straight away. You are also covered by the manufacturers guarantee for 1 year where u can either have a replacement or a repair. Many manufacturers offer extra warranties for a nominal fee, when u purchase a large item. This seems to work, and if there is a problem - then there are organisations that will arbitrate with the various outfits on your behalf. In fact I bought a cooker that for over a year was causing problems with numerous repairs. It was under manufacters guarantee for year, and then indefinite insurance. After excepting repairs under guarantee & me refusing to accept repairs yet again - cooker was replaced with a more expensive model at no extra, and under the same terms.


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

Re your friend and Michael's - if they were stupid enough to cite that reason she has cause for legal action against them. Because of the insane way the world is today, we are all becoming paranoid about p.c. How about a bus driver, wearing a burka, and crashing the same bus stop twice because of loss of peripheral vision? Still drives - p.c. gone insane.


----------



## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

I took the time to e-mail Michael's Customer Service Department about this. Anyone who believes that the information cannot be stolen before it is encrypted or who believes that encrypted information cannot be hacked lives in a dream world. Just look at the line where your driver's licence can be used to pull up your receipt. Do you really believe that this information remains private? Michael's just came off my list of places to patronize.


This is a notification from the Michaels Customer Care Department.

Your Ticket Number 03819873 has been updated.

Call Description: By what means and what information is recorded from a
customer's ID? I think that if you require photocopies of the document in
this day and age of identity theft you are going to see a big drop in
customers.
----------
New Entry: Dear Mxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We have implemented our new
returns system for several reasons. It streamlines the return process and
decreases wait time for the customer. It also gives us the ability to use
the customer's debit or credit card to find the receipt if they have
misplaced or discarded it. The system is intended to help us reduce
fraudulent returns which will reduce our costs and allow us to pass those
savings on to our customers. 

Michaels understands and values our customers' concerns about privacy. Your
driver's license number is encrypted immediately upon entry into the
system. I also want to assure you that your information will never be sold.


We take customer comments, complaints and suggestions seriously. We know
you have choices when deciding where to go for your craft needs. Please
feel free to contact us at 1-800-642-4235. 

Sincerely, 
Michaels Customer Care

CCCallID: 03819873


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I don't want to start another debate but my credit union told me it's the banks, not the government, that wants to charge us (not tax us to my knowledge) for every purchase we make with a debit or credit card. The grocery chain I frequent also confirmed that it is the banks that want to do this. Just saying....


PearlofGreatPrice said:


> Does anyone remember when they put the magnetic strip on the back of Drivers' Licenses? It was about 8-10 years ago here and when I first saw it I asked why they put that there the DMV informed me that it would eventually have all our personal data that existed in the world but for the time being it was only going to be used in case a driver got pulled over by the police for a trafic violation.
> 
> For years they have been targeting people's purchases so the stores know who to send out which coupons in order to generate more sales. Ever notice the long receipts on your cash register tape at the grocery store?
> 
> ...


----------



## TNH (Apr 22, 2012)

If I wanted to hear canned political rants, there are better forums for that, but the news about the new policy at Michael's is interesting. Asking to scan the licenses of customers asking for returns doesn't keep merchandise from being stolen, or keep stolen merchandise from being returned for cash. What it does do is identify individuals who are returning too much merchandise too often.

This makes me wonder whether Michael's is having a problem with employee theft. Professional shoplifters aren't going to concentrate on a store like that. The merchandise isn't worth enough to make real money off it, and there aren't enough stores to keep getting away with it for long.

On the other hand, it's not hard for an employee who works the register to let a confederate load up a cart with merchandise, only ring up a few low-priced items when they check out, and have the confederate return it all for cash at other Michael's stores. This is one of the easiest employee thefts to pull off. You know how some electronics, appliances, and hardware stores have a person stationed at the exit who asks to see your cash register receipt? That system isn't primarily intended to catch customers who haven't paid. It's to catch dishonest cash register clerks who are letting their friends walk through without paying.

The main effect of Michael's new policy is that it limits the number of times a confederate can trade stolen merchandise for cash without attracting the store's attention. This in turn limits the amount of employee theft, because no one has an infinite supply of friends and family members they'd be willing to recruit as part of the operation.

I could be wrong. I'm just speculating.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

mamaknits said:


> they fired a friend when she had to take a few days for chemo treatments breast cancer.


That would be illegal in Europe...


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

mousepotato said:


> I took the time to e-mail Michael's Customer Service Department about this. Anyone who believes that the information cannot be stolen before it is encrypted or who believes that encrypted information cannot be hacked lives in a dream world. Just look at the line where your driver's licence can be used to pull up your receipt. Do you really believe that this information remains private? Michael's just came off my list of places to patronize.
> 
> This is a notification from the Michaels Customer Care Department.
> 
> ...


What is the insurance besides the assurance regarding the selling of information?

"No one can give you the things I can promise / assure you..."

This is really not serious.

And, if it were truth, all their prices should go DOWN - considerably - right after starting with the new policy. Is that so, did all the prices get cut?


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

It's pretty much the same here in the USA. However, many stores & Michael's seems to be one of them, no longer care about their customers or customer service & are getting greedy. I have noticed that many Michael's stores are closing &
they are carrying less & less merchandise. Also, their coupons are more restricted as to what you can purchase with a coupon. I think these practices will just put them out of business.


sonsuray said:


> Here over the pond - if you have an item to return u have at least a 28 day return policy as long as you have a receipt. If item is faulty or not fit for purpose u can get a replacement, or yr cash back. If u pay by credit or debit card -money is put back on card. If paid by cash - u are given money straight away. You are also covered by the manufacturers guarantee for 1 year where u can either have a replacement or a repair. Many manufacturers offer extra warranties for a nominal fee, when u purchase a large item. This seems to work, and if there is a problem - then there are organisations that will arbitrate with the various outfits on your behalf. In fact I bought a cooker that for over a year was causing problems with numerous repairs. It was under manufacters guarantee for year, and then indefinite insurance. After excepting repairs under guarantee & me refusing to accept repairs yet again - cooker was replaced with a more expensive model at no extra, and under the same terms.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Coupons are restricted because of the suppliers. Coupons cannot be used on books because the publishers of the books have mandated that. The same situation exists with Bed, Bath & Beyond, you cannot use their coupons on certain products, such as Yankee Candles, that was mandated by the Yankee Candle Company.

I've only heard of a very few Michael's stores closing down, they seem to be stores that preformed poorly - perhaps simply due to location.

Stores will only carry items that "sell", so reducing or eliminating poor selling merchandise is a wise thing to do.


----------



## Barbara Spoo (Jan 23, 2011)

The town I live in is about 100,00 population. There was a Michel's store here. Drove past the site the other day and it was empty; the large sign in the front was gone. We have one JoAnn's store. Hope they stick around. I was in the Michel's store once--lots of inventory--customers?--not so many.


----------



## LeAnn (Feb 5, 2011)

What about the new licenses with the chips in them? Can they get info off of the chip with a scan?


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

LeAnn said:


> What about the new licenses with the chips in them? Can they get info off of the chip with a scan?


No, not with a regular "paper" scanner.


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

I am the child of divorce my mom raised 6 of us the NO child support (and yes we all have the same father)My mother worked and got NO support from the government either. I dont begrudge people buying animal crackers for gosh sakes kids have to have some treats in their lives! and actually animal crackers are one of the only cookies a diabetic can eats as you can have 16 crackers for an acceptable limit for a snack without going over for sugar intake.My problem with bothe MEN and WOMEN abusing a system that is supposed to keep you alive and well but instead is used for booze ,candy bars and potato chips.As for bulk buying I do it too as buying small portions is almost always a third more expensive sometimes more than that. The best gift I ever got was my last birthday My DH bought me a vacuum food sealer from Walmart and ordered 5 rolls of the bagging of ebay. I buy whole eye of round when it goes on sale sometimes I can get 4 but definatley 3 small roasts each is enough for a meal and 3 sandwiches after.Same with buying ground beef or chicken breast which is out of the world in price up here ($14 a pound!!) now I buy chicken breast in bulk with the bone on and spend about 20 minute deboning it all and then vac seal it voila good for a year when vac sealed only 6 mos wrapped sorry for getting of track, but again it is all a matter of responsibility there are many people who receive assistance and don't abuse it , but since when do people deserve to buy smokes,booze etc on Taxpayers dime? as well up here they get free dental which includes braces and dentures,free prescriptions, winter clothing allowanaces, a stipend on the 20th of the month called the childe benefit allowance (used to be called baby bonus)if you work even minimum wage job and have kids it gets smaller and smaller but if you are on assistance you get more and more for each child. I know a girl unfortunately she is a memember of my extended family who when her youngest child turned 3 (the government wants you to start looking to get training to work with free child care of course)she would get pregnant again!!So 6 children later between he child allowance and social assistance she is bringing is approx $2600 a month with subsidized rent (she pays $200 month heat and hydro included)and she can earn $300 month before she is docked so she could care for a child and get paid, AND her boyfriend stays with her 3 days and nights together (if he stays more than 3 he is deemed to be living there.)Yah right anytime I have called her he is always there.
I think alot more people than you realize take advantage. of the system
Again I have NO problem with people who need it getting it but don't expect me a TAXPAYER to support behaviour that is not consistant to what the benefits are for.!!
AS for the SINGLE WOMEN remark is that is what the CUSTOMER base was on those dates mentioned!!
I realize it takes 2 to have a child!! weather you received a "pittance" has nothing to do with what I witnessed for my self!
The women on those nights outnumbered the men 20 to 1 and all of them vying for the attention of the latter.!This wan't just the bar I either.
When I was on my day job in the retail store that had a little resturant in the store it would be packed on the same dates, and unfortunately NOT a child in there sight either!


----------



## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

grandmasheryl said:


> I am the child of divorce my mom raised 6 of us the NO child support (and yes we all have the same father)My mother worked and got NO support from the government either. I dont begrudge people buying animal crackers for gosh sakes kids have to have some treats in their lives! and actually animal crackers are one of the only cookies a diabetic can eats as you can have 16 crackers for an acceptable limit for a snack without going over for sugar intake.My problem with bothe MEN and WOMEN abusing a system that is supposed to keep you alive and well but instead is used for booze ,candy bars and potato chips.As for bulk buying I do it too as buying small portions is almost always a third more expensive sometimes more than that. The best gift I ever got was my last birthday My DH bought me a vacuum food sealer from Walmart and ordered 5 rolls of the bagging of ebay. I buy whole eye of round when it goes on sale sometimes I can get 4 but definatley 3 small roasts each is enough for a meal and 3 sandwiches after.Same with buying ground beef or chicken breast which is out of the world in price up here ($14 a pound!!) now I buy chicken breast in bulk with the bone on and spend about 20 minute deboning it all and then vac seal it voila good for a year when vac sealed only 6 mos wrapped sorry for getting of track, but again it is all a matter of responsibility there are many people who receive assistance and don't abuse it , but since when do people deserve to buy smokes,booze etc on Taxpayers dime? as well up here they get free dental which includes braces and dentures,free prescriptions, winter clothing allowanaces, a stipend on the 20th of the month called the childe benefit allowance (used to be called baby bonus)if you work even minimum wage job and have kids it gets smaller and smaller but if you are on assistance you get more and more for each child. I know a girl unfortunately she is a memember of my extended family who when her youngest child turned 3 (the government wants you to start looking to get training to work with free child care of course)she would get pregnant again!!So 6 children later between he child allowance and social assistance she is bringing is approx $2600 a month with subsidized rent (she pays $200 month heat and hydro included)and she can earn $300 month before she is docked so she could care for a child and get paid, AND her boyfriend stays with her 3 days and nights together (if he stays more than 3 he is deemed to be living there.)Yah right anytime I have called her he is always there.
> I think alot more people than you realize take advantage. of the system
> Again I have NO problem with people who need it getting it but don't expect me a TAXPAYER to support behaviour that is not consistant to what the benefits are for.!!


I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with the subject at hand?


----------



## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

Unfortunately if you read the entire thread it has gotten to this point, starting with discrimination,governments,benefits etc etc. If you would rather not read what I post then don't you won't hurt my feelings.
Have a great day!


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

Michaels' is a pretty crappy store all around, I have no problem boycotting them.


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

Wise to save off-knitting topics for the General Chit Chat area.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

So if Michael's stores shut down you wouldn't feel bad about all the people who would be unemployed? Nice!


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

courier770 said:


> So if Michael's stores shut down you wouldn't feel bad about all the people who would be unemployed? Nice!


You just like to argue don't you? I'm sure that's not what Rosebay44 meant.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Argue? I don't want to see people unemployed. I don't want to see people lose their homes. I don't want to see people lose health care benefits! This isn't about arguing, this is about the quality of life for many people. You don't like the coupon policy...go ahead put a few more thousand people out of work! You don't like the return policy..what's another couple of thousand out of work, unable to make their mortgage payments or pay their medical bills. We have become the greediest society on earth. You don't like the corporate policies of some companies then their employees "deserve" to loose their jobs..shame on you!


----------



## jheiens (Jan 20, 2011)

EXCUSE ME! 

Seriously, when did you hear of anything this administration wanted to get done regarding taxes on anyone actually being passed by either, much less both houses of Congress? Come on, People, get real about what this administration has been able to pass into law that is going to be a tax on anyone!


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

Courier770, just like one voice in favor of employment won't change anything, neither will one person boycotting a business. Several people have posted about how rude the staff at Michael's is. It doesn't really sound like their new return policy is the problem, just one of many things that people don't like about the store. 

Get off your soapbox for once and start treating other people on this forum with some decency. Every time I read one of your posts you are antagonistic and argumentative. Those who think they know everything really know nothing. Knitting and chatting with friends is supposed to be relaxing. Start enjoying this forum and allow others to enjoy it too without having to be drawn into your bitter tirades.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

You can view my post as "antagonistic" or you can view them for exactly what they are...my grandson is probably going to die in vitro! I'd gladly trade places with you! You go to the funeral and bury an innnocent baby in my place! Have a nice damn night! Thank you for being so damned understanding too!


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

So you are taking your unknown grief on everyone else? Clearly you are having some personal issues but that doesn't give you the right to antagonize and belittle people for expressing their opinions. I am sorry for your grandchild but perhaps you should focus on your family instead of this forum.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm just shocked beyond belief that there are people on this forum who would rather see and innocent child lose their life...how do some of you call yourself Christiians? A difference of opinon over the life of a an innocent infant..shame on you!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

the biggest bunch of heathens's I've come across in my entire life!


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm just shocked beyond belief that there are people on this forum who would rather see and innocent child lose their life...how do some of you call yourself Christiians? A difference of opinon over the life of a an innocent infant..shame on you!


That's exactly what I'm talking about. You have no logic in your reasoning. I simply suggested that you take some time to be with your family in what is most definitely a difficult time and then you accuse me of wanting a child to die. Where is that logic even derived from? And not everyone on this site is a Christian but I'm sure that will just start another topic of bullying from you.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

Redwilley said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > So if Michael's stores shut down you wouldn't feel bad about all the people who would be unemployed? Nice!
> ...


Most times it is best just to ignore Courier770. You are right, she does like to stir things up.


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

Thank you Redwilley. I couldn't have said it better myself. I feel like I'm being lectured to & that I couldn't possibly know anything because Courier knows it all.


Redwilley said:


> Courier770, just like one voice in favor of employment won't change anything, neither will one person boycotting a business. Several people have posted about how rude the staff at Michael's is. It doesn't really sound like their new return policy is the problem, just one of many things that people don't like about the store.
> 
> Get off your soapbox for once and start treating other people on this forum with some decency. Every time I read one of your posts you are antagonistic and argumentative. Those who think they know everything really know nothing. Knitting and chatting with friends is supposed to be relaxing. Start enjoying this forum and allow others to enjoy it too without having to be drawn into your bitter tirades.


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

No one with a working brain, or a comscience, likes what is going on in America or the UK - today but THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FUN FRIENDLY KNITTING GROUP. Has no one the authority to bounce those who are creating this unpleasant atmosphere?


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

rosebay44 said:


> Michaels' is a pretty crappy store all around, I have no problem boycotting them.





courier770 said:


> Argue? I don't want to see people unemployed. I don't want to see people lose their homes. I don't want to see people lose health care benefits! This isn't about arguing, this is about the quality of life for many people. You don't like the coupon policy...go ahead put a few more thousand people out of work! You don't like the return policy..what's another couple of thousand out of work, unable to make their mortgage payments or pay their medical bills. We have become the greediest society on earth. You don't like the corporate policies of some companies then their employees "deserve" to loose their jobs..shame on you!


If one boycotts some store chain, brand, product or company for a reason of principals the boycott is directed to the policy of that company, which is done by it's management, not by, widely speaking, it's employees. And if so many people - as in potential customers of some product - share the principal (and the boycott) to put the company, brand or whatever in danger of bankruptcy, than the problem is more likely to be in the policy than in the principal. And if some management would rather bankrupt the company it is governing, than the owner/s have chosen the wrong management team. And if the owner/s still support this management team, than the owner/s probably share the wrong policy. And in that case it is better - for the society - to get without the wrongly-governed company, than to keep it just for keeping it's employees employed. The opposite is called "hidden unemployment" and the crash of the socialism system proved it to be a wrong community policy. Plus, you simply can't have that in a democratic society. It is simply not achievable.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm just shocked beyond belief that there are people on this forum who would rather see and innocent child lose their life...how do some of you call yourself Christiians? A difference of opinon over the life of a an innocent infant..shame on you!


I am not a Christian - and perhaps that is why I really can't see the connection between the dispute of a [probably] wrong craft store chain new policy - and potential boycott from some of it's potential customers - and your baby grandson [unknown to as] illness.
But it is probable you are just too emotional in principal right now and are projecting emotions from one thing to something completely unrelated... which is also understandable. I hope and pray, deeply, with all my hard, for your grandson - to get better. Children should not go before their parents / grandparents.


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

According to KP, the Main Forum is for subjects related to knitting. This could include Michaels' return policy, of course. I don't know how it could include politics, social Darwinism, or moral relativity. There is another area known as "General Chit Chat" which is for other subjects.
I like to think of we ladies as peacefully sharing our love of knitting and crochet. It's a great place for getting help for problems and learning the solutions. My thanks to all the ladies who have inspired me to improve my knitting, without you I never would have turned that first heel!


----------



## pam (Jan 19, 2011)

Geez. Why so cruel. It's been my experience that courier does know alot, and she's always willing to help. Why the cruel personal attacks on her? It makes me feel bad that she is probably (obviously) feeling bad from the unnecessary attacks on her- on top of everything else she's going through. Doesn't it make you feel bad to hurt someone?


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

pam said:


> Geez. Why so cruel. It's been my experience that courier does know alot, and she's always willing to help. Why the cruel personal attacks on her? It makes me feel bad that she is probably (obviously) feeling bad from the unnecessary attacks on her- on top of everything else she's going through. Doesn't it make you feel bad to hurt someone?


Remember "count to ten"? It's just a forum, we can step away, avoid confrontation, choose to not take things personally. When someone is upset, it's about them so let them vent; we have the option to move on rather than jumping in and keeping things moving in a negative direction.


----------



## pam (Jan 19, 2011)

gingerwitch said:


> pam said:
> 
> 
> > Geez. Why so cruel. It's been my experience that courier does know alot, and she's always willing to help. Why the cruel personal attacks on her? It makes me feel bad that she is probably (obviously) feeling bad from the unnecessary attacks on her- on top of everything else she's going through. Doesn't it make you feel bad to hurt someone?
> ...


You're right. Thank you


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

At first I wondered if there was a way to bounce her off this group but then I realised that she and her family are going through personal hell right now. I don't like what she writes - but if it makes her feel better, we can always delete.

Marian


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

If family issues are that critical, be with your family, not on the computer. I don't think it is judgemental to keep this part of the forum on topic. I'm just here for the knitting.


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

Tragedy though it is, that's not an excuse to treat others poorly. If that was her mood she should have stayed away from the topic. I read other posts of hers on other threads from that same day and they were totally agreeable and even helpful which makes me further believe that she was just trying to stir the pot.


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

I noticed the same thing. It did make me wonder.


Redwilley said:


> Tragedy though it is, that's not an excuse to treat others poorly. If that was her mood she should have stayed away from the topic. I read other posts of hers on other threads from that same day and they were totally agreeable and even helpful which makes me further believe that she was just trying to stir the pot.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

OK, I restrained to ask before, for it is a sensitive question, but... I will never learn if I don't ask - and I could not find any other use of the words, so... can the term "in vitro" be used in english in some other way, besides it's original biology term meaning? And if "yes", than what does it mean? What could it mean here, I honestly don't understand it... is it used as some sort of idiom?



courier770 said:


> ... probably going to die in vitro! ...


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> OK, I restrained to ask before, for it is a sensitive question, but... I will never learn if I don't ask - and I could not find any other use of the words, so... can the term "in vitro" be used in english in some other way, besides it's original biology term meaning? And if "yes", than what does it mean? What could it mean here, I honestly don't understand it... is it used as some sort of idiom?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Handy I don'tknow her exact situation but I think she was so upset she may have mis-spoken. Possibly she meant "in utero".


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

rosebay44 said:


> I noticed the same thing. It did make me wonder.
> 
> 
> Redwilley said:
> ...


There's never an excuse for that sort of behavior. The current economic situation is clearly a very sore subject for her and we are not aware of her personal situation with friends and family regarding that or anything else that might have exacerbated her reaction at the time. So isn't it best to not aggravate an unpleasant situation and make it worse by verbalizing our reactions? When I was verbally attacked once on this site, my response was simply "Not going there" and to change the subject. Conflict can always be avoided.


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

gingerwitch said:


> HandyFamily said:
> 
> 
> > OK, I restrained to ask before, for it is a sensitive question, but... I will never learn if I don't ask - and I could not find any other use of the words, so... can the term "in vitro" be used in english in some other way, besides it's original biology term meaning? And if "yes", than what does it mean? What could it mean here, I honestly don't understand it... is it used as some sort of idiom?
> ...


oh, thanks. wouldn't have figured it...
I hope the baby will be mature enough when he is born, and healthy enough to live and grow up healthy...


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

There's been nothing from her so far today - maybe she realises she went too far on her soapbox.


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

You are absolutely 100% correct, however, having been attacked by Courier in the past, I don't have much sympathy for her. She doesn't know everything as she appears to think & she can't handle it when anyone's opinion differs from hers. She does make mistakes (in vitro vs. in utero for example) but will never own up to it. I, too, just want to stick to knitting & crocheting & I just cringe when I see Courier 770 in the conversation. I try to stay out of it but, sometimes, it gets the best of me. In spite of it all, I pray her family situation improves.


gingerwitch said:


> rosebay44 said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed the same thing. It did make me wonder.
> ...


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

Amen, Sister


blavell said:


> You are absolutely 100% correct, however, having been attacked by Courier in the past, I don't have much sympathy for her. She doesn't know everything as she appears to think & she can't handle it when anyone's opinion differs from hers. She does make mistakes (in vitro vs. in utero for example) but will never own up to it. I, too, just want to stick to knitting & crocheting & I just cringe when I see Courier 770 in the conversation. I try to stay out of it but, sometimes, it gets the best of me. In spite of it all, I pray her family situation improves.
> 
> 
> gingerwitch said:
> ...


----------



## Long Islander (Jul 15, 2011)

Like a troubled spirit hovering, she may well be reading everything written - and waiting to pounce. I don't know her from any other group or list so cannot and will not comment. I only know that I can't wait to finish the king-sized quilt my son asked me to make for his new home so that I can get back to knitting and learn looming.


----------



## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

I find knitting is like meditating to me. I miss it so much when I am tied up with something else.


Long Islander said:


> Like a troubled spirit hovering, she may well be reading everything written - and waiting to pounce. I don't know her from any other group or list so cannot and will not comment. I only know that I can't wait to finish the king-sized quilt my son asked me to make for his new home so that I can get back to knitting and learn looming.


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

Long Islander said:


> Like a troubled spirit hovering, she may well be reading everything written - and waiting to pounce. I don't know her from any other group or list so cannot and will not comment. I only know that I can't wait to finish the king-sized quilt my son asked me to make for his new home so that I can get back to knitting and learn looming.


Well let's hope not. Life's too short, and there are way too many unfinished projects, to spend it on this kind of unpleasant interaction. I wish her peace and to all of you--Happy Knitting!


----------



## pamgillies1 (Aug 6, 2011)

I have sat and watched this topic deteriorate from a gentle rant about Michaels, who, when I lived in the US, I frequented a lot, to a vitriolic diatribe. I thought we were all supposed to be friendly knitters on this site. Can we PLEASE DROP THIS SUBJECT and start again with something pleasant.


----------



## pam (Jan 19, 2011)

pamgillies1 said:


> I have sat and watched this topic deteriorate from a gentle rant about Michaels, who, when I lived in the US, I frequented a lot, to a vitriolic diatribe. I thought we were all supposed to be friendly knitters on this site. Can we PLEASE DROP THIS SUBJECT and start again with something pleasant.


AMEN


----------



## midget4 (Sep 19, 2011)

I work with retail. They can ask for ID but to scan it is wrong. If they do not want to have the returns they can either give a gift card for merd only and not give cash back. If a hacker gets that info they can do damage. There are other info on your card that is not printed. I may be wrong but look on the back of your lic there is bar codes that contains other info. I believe it also contains your SS number. If they are using a scanner they are getting all of your info.not just what is printed.


----------



## gingerwitch (Oct 31, 2011)

pam said:


> pamgillies1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have sat and watched this topic deteriorate from a gentle rant about Michaels, who, when I lived in the US, I frequented a lot, to a vitriolic diatribe. I thought we were all supposed to be friendly knitters on this site. Can we PLEASE DROP THIS SUBJECT and start again with something pleasant.
> ...


Amen also


----------



## ireneofnc (Aug 15, 2011)

That's a great idea! (Making sure that you don't want to return what you purchase).

Since I don't shop at Micheal's very often, I shouldn't have that problem! 

Compared to other craft stores (Hobby Lobby, AC Moore, etc) Michaels is my least favorite!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Long Islander said:


> Like a troubled spirit hovering, she may well be reading everything written - and waiting to pounce. I don't know her from any other group or list so cannot and will not comment. I only know that I can't wait to finish the king-sized quilt my son asked me to make for his new home so that I can get back to knitting and learn looming.


You already did. If you don't know her then leave her alone.
Oh please. enough! Don't you think the public flogging has gone long enough? I thought the topic here was Michael's. Don't you ladies get tired of beating people up? It's very sad to think that we welcome all of these new knitters here to see crap like this.
Go knit!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

wheelersfarm said:


> I wonder what would happen if you didn't drive so you don't have a driver's license.


If you don't drive, most states require that you have a state issued ID.


----------



## ptober (Mar 24, 2011)

I have often had to show my drivers license and they hand copied the number on checks- it is a way for them to trace someone if the check is bad. However why they would do it for returns is a good question.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Andrea in TN said:


> if you can match a name with a birthdate you can get a social security card


You also would need a birth certificate, your mother's maiden name etc,


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cydbay said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > jheiens, read what was posted, this is regarding returns NOT purchases.
> ...


No it wasn't. She was simply letting the lady know that the thread was about returns.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

wackycat4 said:


> I had to show my driver's license to cash my check to myself at my bank. I was told it was simply to prevent fraud. While I thought that was extreme- there is a lot of fraud out there!
> wacky cat 4 :roll:


They want to make sure it is you and not somebody who may have stolen your checks


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

HandyFamily said:


> AmyKnits said:
> 
> 
> > They can hack, they can steal, they can own a device that scans your driver license and any credit cards you have in your possession if you walk by them within 20 feet.
> ...


Oh, how wrong you are. Maybe not in Bulgaria, but they are all over the place in the US. They are manufacturing scan proof wallets to keep your info safe.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

grandmasheryl said:


> kittykatzmom said:
> 
> 
> > Crazy the way we have to live anymore. Each trip to the hospital - even in the same week or month - all info has to be re-entered. A lot of work for the employees. Sounds like Michaels' is working themselves out of business. I use my debit card and they can just put the money back on that as far as I am concerned - maybe this is for cash back. Some people will do anything to scam a business. When a local town has the yearly Fall Festival I was told several years ago that food stamp people would purchase meat and then return it for cash to use at the festival. They would make sure the meat was spoiled, so they could return it ok. SAD!
> ...


What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Redwilley said:


> Courier770, just like one voice in favor of employment won't change anything, neither will one person boycotting a business. Several people have posted about how rude the staff at Michael's is. It doesn't really sound like their new return policy is the problem, just one of many things that people don't like about the store.
> 
> Get off your soapbox for once and start treating other people on this forum with some decency. Every time I read one of your posts you are antagonistic and argumentative. Those who think they know everything really know nothing. Knitting and chatting with friends is supposed to be relaxing. Start enjoying this forum and allow others to enjoy it too without having to be drawn into your bitter tirades.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

Just out of curiosity Northwoods Gal, why are you continuing this discussion if you disagree with it so much? Aren't you contributing to "the crap" by making disparaging remarks about other posts? I was essentially called a baby killer for defending someone else's opinion. What, pray tell, does that "have to do with the price of tea in China"?


----------



## druidsgirl (Sep 24, 2011)

Outrageous!! All you should need is your reciept.


----------



## druidsgirl (Sep 24, 2011)

Is there no policy in your country on what information you can and can't ask for and what you can and can't do with it?? Fat chance of getting away with that here. You need more law to protect consumers me thinks....


----------



## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

Since I joined this forum way back in January of 2011 it has grown (and that is an understatement) to include many wonderful and talented knitters from not only here in the USA but every country!! I have learned so much and received so many good ideas. I regret I do not contribute as much as I receive. My thanks to all of you. I appreciate the tips on patterns, sales and even policy changes such as this thread regarding Michaels intended to begin with. 
To list all of the many helpful people on this forum would mean I might miss one. However, today I want to send a thank you out to Courier 770. Remember the Burnham Wood Capelet by Romi Hill you made in white and then another in red for your Granddaughter? My purple one came out beautifully and even placed in the Indiana State Fair. I apoligize from not taking the time to master taking a picture and posting it. Appreciate your guiding me to the pattern and all the encouragement with those stitches!! I have your towel pattern, but have not made it yet. I am sorry to learn of your grief at this time. Thoughts and Prayers. Carlene 

Have a great day everyone.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

druidsgirl said:


> Is there no policy in your country on what information you can and can't ask for and what you can and can't do with it?? Fat chance of getting away with that here. You need more law to protect consumers me thinks....


They can't ask for your social security number, but I think that might be the only thing?


----------



## druidsgirl (Sep 24, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> druidsgirl said:
> 
> 
> > Is there no policy in your country on what information you can and can't ask for and what you can and can't do with it?? Fat chance of getting away with that here. You need more law to protect consumers me thinks....
> ...


Really!?! Can you think of 1 GOOD reason they can have for wanting to identify customers in this case? If a customer has the goods and they are in origonal condition and they have the receipt which matches the goods and they are returning them for a good reason and in a reasonable time frame (e.g. 3 months) then who cares if you are from Mars? It's just an invasion of your privacy...at what point is purchasing a bit of wool an excuse to view your personal information and even worse to take a copy? I just don't understand what makes a store think they can hold a refund on goods as a ransom to gain your personal details. Sorry to rant but I think privacy is an important part of freedom.


----------



## Fiona Dawn (Mar 29, 2011)

jonibee said:


> These businesses give the customer the shaft..they're greedy about taking and getting your cash..but when the shoe is on the other foot...they cry ouch!..Perhaps if they practice Good Customer Service policy and not make the customer feel that they have to almost beg for them to make a return or adjustment they would have more satisfied customers..this is what happens when big business gets to big for their pants...I would think twice about shopping there. If they don't know their product ..they're in trouble..and the attitude of their staff is very unprofessional.


This is one of the reasons I started my own site for yarn sales.. I'm just a homemaker, love my friends, and they deserve better then this! I'm not trying to promote my site, just why I started it besides being homebound. I saw a post on my facebook, and thought long and hard about what it said. I'll post the picture here and the saying. With the economy so bad, we need different outlets and better deals. I'm really sick of big corporations, and their fat checks, and to heck with all of us that are the ones that are keeping them in business! I'm a Mom and Pop business, and a lot of my customers are not only customers but friends. I make sure they get the best and the fastest service! You can find the link to my site on my profile, and the best part is there is free worldwide shipping by DHL express!


----------



## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

druidsgirl said:


> BarbaraSD said:
> 
> 
> > druidsgirl said:
> ...


I completely agree with you... 
No store / store chain would ever get away with such an idea in EU. And, obviously, not in NZ...

But, apparently, in US a customer - or even a false one, a person impersonating a customer - with no receipt or proof of any kind he/she actually both the thing from that store, in any condition and for no reason at all but "I don't feel like owning it anymore"...
This is absurd to me - I can't find any sensible reason for such strange store policy, but... the result is that the actual customers - the people who buy things they want to own and only return goods for good reasons - when there is something wrong with them - are the ones that suffer...


----------



## crafty4231 (May 12, 2012)

Some states have your social security number on your license.


----------



## Redwilley (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes, as usual, the few ruin it for the many.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I just returned something to Michaels this last week and did not have to show my drivers license.


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I was telling a friend about this new policy last week & he said he thought that it was illegal for Michael's to scan our licenses. Maybe someone got to them & made them stop or, maybe the thought of losing customers caused them to stop doing that. I'm glad you had a good experience.


NJG said:


> I just returned something to Michaels this last week and did not have to show my drivers license.


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

In maine they have always been able to write down your information when u were writing a check. At Joann's Fabric, it is store policy, if you buy something on clearance-regardless what it is packaged in or what it is-You cannot return it! Even if you open box/package and discover that it doesnt work- oh well!!! Now that doesnt sound right. Their explanation is that its on clearance.


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

Here in MN they have always been able to write down the info. also but, that is not the problem. What Michael's had started doing was scanning our driver's licenses & there is alot of private information encoded on those magnetic strips. In some states even social security numbers are on there. If an item is returned for a good reason with the packaging & receipt I don't feel there is any reason for them to go to these extremes. It's a good way for them to lose valuable customers.


nannyberfa said:


> In maine they have always been able to write down your information when u were writing a check. At Joann's Fabric, it is store policy, if you buy something on clearance-regardless what it is packaged in or what it is-You cannot return it! Even if you open box/package and discover that it doesnt work- oh well!!! Now that doesnt sound right. Their explanation is that its on clearance.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

Let's hope so. I like shopping at Michael's. Their prices are better than Joann's but I was willing to stop because of their return policy. I think someone here sent a link that a store in Florida was being sued for using this practice.



blavell said:


> I was telling a friend about this new policy last week & he said he thought that it was illegal for Michael's to scan our licenses. Maybe someone got to them & made them stop or, maybe the thought of losing customers caused them to stop doing that. I'm glad you had a good experience.
> 
> 
> NJG said:
> ...


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

I am not saying that I AGREE with this policy, nor LIKE it, but it seems as this is the way of the future. Target has been scanning licenses for many years as does WalMart and Best Buy just to name a few. I returned a dress (with a receipt) last week at Express and they scanned my license as did Victoria's Secret last time I made a return. Unfortunatley we are in the "electronic age" and unless you never plan to return anything.... you can't avoid it nowadays. Perhaps it helps to know that most stores do this to track the number of times a person returns items in order to protect themselves against fraud. 

We went into this conversation at nauseum (see that we are on page 32) weeks ago. Your information contained on your license is only as private as the safeguards on the computers at the DMV. If Michaels computers can be hacked, then I figure the DMV's can be as well.

We all try to protect ourselves as best we can, but the information on your license is only as secure as the (highly trained, highly security briefed, trustworthy.... yeah right!) person who TAKES your information at the DMV. Sorry, WISH it were not so, but if wishes were fishes......


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

Michaels is not the only place to ask for a picture ID# or driver's license The store is not all bad.

I get a 40% off coupon on a regularly priced item weekly in my email from Michaels. It beats the sale price especially on the 16 oz. skein. Print one daily, and get a skein every time you are in the neighborhood. You will save money over time. Food for thought.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

kwright said:


> Michaels is not the only place to ask for a picture ID# or driver's license The store is not all bad.
> 
> I get a 40% off coupon on a regularly priced item weekly in my email from Michaels. It beats the sale price especially on the 16 oz. skein. Print one daily, and get a skein every time you are in the neighborhood. You will save money over time. Food for thought.


I'm not opposed to Michael's seeing my driver's license. That isn't the issue. It is the fact they SCAN the driver's license that I and many others object to.


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

Walmart nor Best Buy have never scanned my license. And I have had to return things. Licensed do have personal stuff inbedded in the barcode.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Well, nannyberfa, you got lucky as did the woman who said that she made a return at Michaels and was not asked for her license. I am fairly certain that no matter how hard a huge store chain with thousands of employees tries, occasionally a salesperson will be unaware that they are supposed to or forget to scan the license.

Following is the return policy of Best Buy... it IS their policy as well as almost EVERY MAJOR retailer to require a scan of your license to facilitate a return. All you need do is "google" Best Buy Return Policy as I did and you will plainly see for yourself. It IS common practice, not new, not illegal. I only attached Best Buy's Policy because that is the store you said you returned an item and were not asked for your license. I could literally add dozens of other major retail stores policies and they all contain a photo id is required. Perhaps you could google policies of stores you frequently visit and you can see for yourself what their policies are.

In addition, when you write a check at a retail store, they ask for your license and type the number into the computer. States vary as to what is available, but here in NYS if a license is scanned, the magnetic strip contains much LESS information than is actually printed on your license. Therefore, it is LESS risky to have your license scanned than having it photocopied (as in a Doctor office, car rental, etc.) or having the NUMBER manually typed in.

I would encourage you to browse through the 32 pages before your comment and perhaps you would learn a few things about this policy... should you be interested.

Best Buy
Return & Exchange Policy 

Original Receipt

The original receipt, gift receipt or packing slip is required for all returns and exchanges. If returning or exchanging an item in a Best Buy store, a valid photo ID is also required.

Return & Exchange Period
30 days for all products 
45 days for all products for Reward Zone® Program Premier Silver members

Best Buy reserves the right to deny any return or exchange.

Non-Returnable Items

Some items cannot be returned, including:
Labor, delivery and/or completed Geek Squad® installation services
Some pre-paid cards, digital subscriptions or services 
Digital content (e.g., game and movie downloads)
Consumable items such as food, drinks and batteries
Items that are damaged or abused
Items that are missing accessories such as remote controls, cords and cables
Etched or otherwise personalized items
Opened computer software, movies, music and video games can be exchanged for the identical item but cannot be returned for a refund

It is a store's right to develop its own return policy. Some stores do not accept returns at all. Some stamp "fnal sale" on the receipt if it is not returnable, some do not. Some offer 30, 60, 90 day return policies, some open ended. Some only accept with a receipt, some with a license. It is your responsibility as a consumer to understand the stores policy when you shop there. Most stores post their policies near the register or customer service area. Some print it right on your receipt. If you do not find this information, you can ask a sales person to explain it to you or ask to have a Manager explain it to you.

You have the right to choose where you shop and you have the right to NOT make a return if you don't want to have your license scanned. Again, I would strongly suggest reading the preceeding pages and looking the information up on the internet (it appears you all have access  ) and verifying this information when you make a purchase to protect yourselves.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

In addition, I see that you live in Maine. I looked up what information is encoded in YOUR license strip. The following information ONLY is encoded. I am not sure what your license looks like on the front, but all this information is on the front of my NYS license. NOTHING super-secret and private is encoded on YOUR license that is not on the FRONT of mine. You can look up all of this information. Whom ever told you that all kinds of super-secret information is encoded into your magnet strip is missinformed.. Thank goodness for the internet....most everything you want to find out is out there, including what is included in your license barcode. You don't have to ask your friends, listen to gossip and worry yourself silly. In addition, if you have ever rented a car, visited a doctor, stayed in a hotel, your license information is also already out there. It is important to protect ourselves, but it is wise to become informed on a subject before listening to people who tell you it is illegal, (as one woman posted) or dangerous.

You can easily find this information on your DMV webpage as I did or simply call them and ask for the information. You don't need to be alarmed, just educated.

------ Begin Card
Address=[my street in all caps]
City=[my city in all caps]
State=WI
Zipcode=[my zip code]
Driver License Number=[my drivers license number]
License Expiration Date=YY/YY/MMDD
License Issued Date=MM/DD/YYYY
Date of Birth=MM/DD/YYYY
Sex=MALE
Address2=
Height=0'##"
Eye Color=XXX
Address Line 2=
------ End Card


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

FYI -- I just went to the Michaels that I regularly use. The clerk is to enter the driver's license number by hand twice, to guarentee its correctness. The purpose is to prevent people who steal from other stores, bring their stuff in to "return" without a receipt to get money for it. In addition, a Michaels' gift card is given for the ammount to be spent within a Michaels store. It has stopped much of that type of theft. I agree with AmyKnits. I shop in Best Buy, too. I have had my driver's license scanned at the doctor's office recently, too.

[I don't think we live in a "total" "police state." I think Texas would secede.]


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

kwright said:


> FYI -- I just went to the Michaels that I regularly use. The clerk is to enter the driver's license number by hand twice, to guarentee its correctness. The purpose is to prevent people who steal from other stores, bring their stuff in to "return" without a receipt to get money for it. In addition, a Michaels' gift card is given for the ammount to be spent within a Michaels store. It has stopped much of that type of theft. I agree with AmyKnits. I shop in Best Buy, too. I have had my driver's license scanned at the doctor's office recently, too.
> 
> [I don't think we live in a "total" "police state." I think Texas would secede.]


I fear insulting people, but it is clear that most of us who are upset at Michaels policy are simply uninformed.

Like I said, I am not a fan of this policy nor do I look forward to having my license scanned. Mostly because it is very difficult to dig mine out of that little window thingy in my wallet! lol.

I simply urge us all to become much more informed. No, most states do not have any "top-secret" infomation encoded into your license strip. The SOLE purpose of a magnetic strip is to swipe instead of typing the number into the register. (They have done this for DECADES if you write a check and in some instances if you make a return... type your number into the register) Same for a credit card.... we have all had the strip fail and the cashier must type in the number. That is the ONLY reason to HAVE a magnetic strip on a credit card... to avoid having the cashier spend typing the number in. Same for your license.

Of course, you should be aware and informed. Be aware of the stores policy when you MAKE a purchase. Find out what is encoded on your license. Yes, the vast majority of states simply have the information on the front encoded so that the user can swipe instead of typing it in manually.

Do NOT listen to your "friend" or others who give you misleading information. Verify it for yourself. Don't assume it is illegal to swipe your license if your "friend" says she THINKS it is illegal. Don't assume your "friend" is right when she says there is super-special secret information encoded in your strip. In almost all cases it is not. (I am not an expert... just did some quick research... don't believe ME, either. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF!)

Educate yourself, become informed, check it out. Call your DMV, look it up... make informed decisions.

Also, I think Texas would do just fine on thier own.... probably better. My opinion, but you folks usually have the right idea about most things down there. If texas does go renegade.... guess where I am movin'?!


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

I am very proud to be an American, clear back to the Rosses of the 1700s. We, as a people/country, are most volnerable when we are ignorant and/or illiterate. Educate yourselvesin your own best interst then you will know what the rules are.


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I've never had my license scanned at Target, WalMart or Best Buy or anywhere else. Maybe they've started that in other areas & it hasn't reached us here in MN yet. I know alot of stores are trying to get you to give them your PIN when using your debit card & many banks are also enforcing this. However, my Credit Union has told it's customers not to do this & haven't we always been told not to give our PIN to anyone? Now, they want us to give them our PIN's. I see nothing but trouble with that policy.


AmyKnits said:


> I am not saying that I AGREE with this policy, nor LIKE it, but it seems as this is the way of the future. Target has been scanning licenses for many years as does WalMart and Best Buy just to name a few. I returned a dress (with a receipt) last week at Express and they scanned my license as did Victoria's Secret last time I made a return. Unfortunatley we are in the "electronic age" and unless you never plan to return anything.... you can't avoid it nowadays. Perhaps it helps to know that most stores do this to track the number of times a person returns items in order to protect themselves against fraud.
> 
> We went into this conversation at nauseum (see that we are on page 32) weeks ago. Your information contained on your license is only as private as the safeguards on the computers at the DMV. If Michaels computers can be hacked, then I figure the DMV's can be as well.
> 
> We all try to protect ourselves as best we can, but the information on your license is only as secure as the (highly trained, highly security briefed, trustworthy.... yeah right!) person who TAKES your information at the DMV. Sorry, WISH it were not so, but if wishes were fishes......


----------



## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I have a good policy for Michael's, just don't accept returns without the receipt. End of problem.


----------



## Ms. Tess (Mar 2, 2012)

Wow....coming from a security background I am shocked. Someone has a scan of your license and some have asked what can someone do with it?

1. It is scanned into a computer. Computers get hacked every day and data gets stolen.

2. Should some unsavory character have access to this information, they know where you live in most cases, what you look like (if they are intending to harm you), they know your age and your birth date. Depending on the state or province there could be a few more things they learn from your license.

3. With this information, there is enough accumulated to try for information from a bank or to get a credit card from another company or other forms of identity theft.

4. They can do all kinds of things. I would protest this on the grounds that unless they can guarantee that their computer system is 100% guaranteed safe and they are willing to back it up in writing that you feel it is an invasion of privacy. By stating that they feel their computer records are 100% safe they are opening themselves up to lawsuits in the event of a hack for not securing your information against identity theft.

Be careful with all your id, it can be used in ways you cannot even begin to imagine in the wrong hands.


----------



## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

For heaven sakes what is the big deal? you have to show your drivers license every time you cash a check or perform any type of transaction. and I thought this was supposed to be a knitting group. don't they have a separate section for other subjects.


sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Ms. Tess said:


> Wow....coming from a security background I am shocked. Someone has a scan of your license and some have asked what can someone do with it?
> 
> 1. It is scanned into a computer. Computers get hacked every day and data gets stolen.
> 
> ...


While I am all for protecting yourself, the DMV can be hacked, no?!

The ONLY way around this is to never visit a doctor, rent a car, apply for college, open a bank account, apply for a mortgage, etc. Your information is already "out there" in probably over 100 places if you live a normal life.

At your doctor's office it is copied, in your chart for anyone to see who works there. This would include the cleaning company who comes in at night. You would NOT have to "hack" to get this information.

Michaels, however, SCANS your license and the information is encoded. Employees cannot have access to this information unless their system is hacked AND the encryption code is broken.

All I am trying to say is that your driver's license info is available at many more places than you think. And most places it IS available does NOT require hacking to get the info.

We have been letting retailers "punch" our numbers into their computers for DECADES. Why do you feel it is ok to let a retailer punch your number into a computer but NOT scan it?

Bottom line is that the DMV cannot guarantee you that your information is safe... unless you have THAT in writing, perhaps you should surrender your license.

I am all for protecting myself, but scanning your license at Michaels would be the very least of my concerns regarding my privacy and it's safety.

I urge you all to become aware of what information is on your state license. Be aware that there is no super-special coded secret information on your magnetic strip. In most cases it simply contains the same information that is printed on the front of your license.

The sole purpose of the magnetic strip is to make things easier and faster in our electronic age. Just like cashiers USED to type your credit card info. into the register, they now swipe it. Just as a retailer would type your driver's license info. into the register, they now swipe it. A vast IMPROVEMENT in protecting your privacy, by the way. Most retailers let you swipe your own credit card so that the cashier doesn't even see the card or the numbers. THIS is the reason they are to SWIPE your license! It is to PROTECT YOU. You say you don't have a problem SHOWING your license to a cashier who you don't KNOW and she can look it and memorize it. Well, it is a LOT safer to have her swipe it without examining it! The information is then coded into the computer and cannot be obtained without being HACKED AND DECODED!

Make an informed, educated decision whether or not to have your license scanned. As I said.... the actual photo copy of your license including your photo at every Dr. office you've been to is much more dangerous than a scan of your encrypted information on a system that would have to be hacked AND decoded to obtain your information.


----------



## aliaamma (May 12, 2012)

This is a growing trend. I returned some things today to Home Depot (without a receipt) and they asked for my drivers license....


----------



## JusNeedles (Nov 20, 2011)

sam07671 said:


> Well just heard on the news this morning at 5:30 that Michaels has a new return policy. Seems like they require your drivers licness and will scan it in order to return any merchandise. One woman they interviewed on this story was mad when they asked for her licness and asked the sales clerk what information do you think you got from scanning my drivers licness and i guess the clerk's reply was "everything". So I think that if you buy anything from there you better make sure that you don't want to return it if you don't wnat your drivers licness scanned.


I went to grandson's school last week for spelling bee; had to scan my DL at front desk; when the info came up on the screen it had my first name as Samba and the last name as Fie; I just checked name ok and proceeded on. What I'm thinking DOES the DL really have that much info and if so, why was my name altered ? I agree wtih another post, the only "personal" info on my DL is my weight, which is not true and my hair color, which isn't real !


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Debit cards do not have protections that credit cards do. Gift cards frequentlly go uncashed with the cash reverting to the stores, rather than the person who purchased them. Same with 'change' from transactions. Anything over the amount of the gift card results in additional sales for the store.

I always use a credit card to purchase and pay it right away. I only use my debit card for cash at my bank. I send a check rather than a gift card allowing the person to spend my gift as they like. 

If you don't like a stated store policy, express yourself and then don't use the store next time.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

blavell said:


> I have a good policy for Michael's, just don't accept returns without the receipt. End of problem.


Exactly. And if one purchases something on a credit/debit card, that would be further proof the person returning the item is also the person who bought it.


----------



## 3star777 (Sep 13, 2011)

I used to work for a retail store - people would steal clothing then return it for a refund. Great incentive to check ID. In today's economy I'm sure stores will do what they must to deter loss.


----------



## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

For awhile here in US they had you put your thumb print on the back of your checks with the stuff that can be seen under a black light. Not seen that done in a while. Nothing is private anymore


----------



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> blavell said:
> 
> 
> > I have a good policy for Michael's, just don't accept returns without the receipt. End of problem.
> ...


Well, these would be great policies IF you ladies were in fact the owners of Michaels or Target or Walmart or Best Buy or Home Depot or Victoria's Secret or Express or nearly any other Major Retailer. However, if you are not the owner of all of these companies, and DO plan on shopping at a major retailer in the future with the possibility of making a return, just making a suggestion on a knitting website of what a store policy SHOULD be won't solve your problem.

You need to become familiar with store policies regarding returns and make informed decisions before you shop and/or return.

Best Wishes on your knitting and shopping adventures.


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

1. Save all of your receipts.
2. Only use cash.
3. Never give anyone your pin#. It gives them equal access to your money.
4. THINK!


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

Geez! All I said was that I had returned things at these stores and didn't have my license scanned. IFORGOT to put that in some states there is personal stuff embedded in your license, I guess I didnt word things write for you, AMYKNITS. My husband is from New York and has looked this up and I looked up MY home state. I really didn't need to be jumped all over about what I said, or talk to me that way! No one is perfect except God! This site is for discussions, not Raking Someone Over The Coals! Stuff like this makes people quit this site or go into hiding. Bless You All!


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

That's a new one for me. It's probably going to be the 'Norm' for everyone soon. Credit cards are the same way.


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

I agree w/ you 100%!


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

nannyberfa said:


> Geez! All I said was that I had returned things at these stores and didn't have my license scanned. IFORGOT to put that in some states there is personal stuff embedded in your license, I guess I didnt word things write for you, AMYKNITS. My husband is from New York and has looked this up and I looked up MY home state. I really didn't need to be jumped all over about what I said, or talk to me that way! No one is perfect except God! This site is for discussions, not Raking Someone Over The Coals! Stuff like this makes people quit this site or go into hiding. Bless You All!


~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you Nanny. Some people need to re-read what they write and consider how the reader will interpret what was written. And AMYKNITS was the one who mentioned this subject had been discussed "ad nauseum" many posts back and yet she still continued to write her posts.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

kwright said:


> 1. Save all of your receipts.
> 2. Only use cash.
> 3. Never give anyone your pin#. It gives them equal access to your money.
> 4. THINK!


~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not sure using cash will avoid having your driver's license scanned. Didn't help when I wanted to make a $5.00 return (with receipt!). Had to put up a stink and get the store manager involved before he okayed my refusal.


----------



## mmorris25 (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm sorry! Didn't realize I was answering myself...


----------



## knitknack (Oct 30, 2011)

My personal checks only have my first two initials and last name. It is not a law that you must have your full name and address, nor phone number. When required I have given my phone #. I know tat I am usually asked for my license when I write a check and all they copy is my license number.


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

Sorry if I was terse. I spend so much time talking to 6th graders, it just comes out sometimes.


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

TY BarbaraSD!


----------



## jsalter (Jun 17, 2012)

Kinda scary that there is a company out there collecting millions of consumers personal information all in one scan. My picture, my address, name and most of all my birth date - 75% of my info - why would people think this is okay? What right does a merchant have asking for this info - I certainly wouldn't want the local little gift store scanning my drivers license so why would you want a Large Corporation doing the same?


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

jsalter said:


> Kinda scary that there is a company out there collecting millions of consumers personal information all in one scan. My picture, my address, name and most of all my birth date - 75% of my info - why would people think this is okay? What right does a merchant have asking for this info - I certainly wouldn't want the local little gift store scanning my drivers license so why would you want a Large Corporation doing the same?


~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with you. Slowly we are losing our right to privacy.


----------



## kwright (Mar 16, 2012)

My trip to Michaels last week resulted in a learning experience. The clerk told me that the managers were watching them; there was a camera above my head to observe the purchase(s); and corporate was complaining about multiple purchases using the 'same' coupon. I print several to use over the course of the week of Michaels, Hobby Lobby, and JoAnn's. Who has the best percent; where I am shopping; or what I pull out of my purse first. Will wonders never cease.


----------



## christine4321 (Jun 10, 2012)

verifying and recording ID when returning an item should not be a problem but scanning a driver's license is a step too far. The only reason I can see for Micheal's wanting this information is for research and not theft. The license gives them information as to demographics and age related to items purchased. People generally won't volunteer this information so Michaels is taking advantage by stating they will only refund if your license is scanned. This is a violation of privacy. Verifying identification for the purpose of preventing fraud/theft can be understood but other than recording your name no other information should be required


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

3star777 said:


> I used to work for a retail store - people would steal clothing then return it for a refund. Great incentive to check ID. In today's economy I'm sure stores will do what they must to deter loss.


Yes, but if the customer returning the item has her/his receipt and even the credit/debit card if purchased on credit, there is absolutely no reason the store has to scan one's driver's license.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

christine4321 said:


> verifying and recording ID when returning an item should not be a problem but scanning a driver's license is a step too far. The only reason I can see for Micheal's wanting this information is for research and not theft. The license gives them information as to demographics and age related to items purchased. People generally won't volunteer this information so Michaels is taking advantage by stating they will only refund if your license is scanned. This is a violation of privacy. Verifying identification for the purpose of preventing fraud/theft can be understood but other than recording your name no other information should be required


I know my patronage at Michael's is just a small drop in the bucket for them, but I've stopped shopping there since they've started this new policy. I've been shopping at JoAnn's. As consumers we've all just become inured to all the demands made on us and our privacy. Personally, I think we need to make a stand if we find Michael's policy unacceptable. The last time I had to return something and they asked for my driver's license (yes, they were going to scan it) I put up such a stink the manager allowed me to not show my license. This was also the last time I shopped at their store.


----------



## christine4321 (Jun 10, 2012)

BarbaraSD said:


> christine4321 said:
> 
> 
> > verifying and recording ID when returning an item should not be a problem but scanning a driver's license is a step too far. The only reason I can see for Micheal's wanting this information is for research and not theft. The license gives them information as to demographics and age related to items purchased. People generally won't volunteer this information so Michaels is taking advantage by stating they will only refund if your license is scanned. This is a violation of privacy. Verifying identification for the purpose of preventing fraud/theft can be understood but other than recording your name no other information should be required
> ...


I agree completely. I am happy you stood up for your right to privacy!


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

kwright said:


> My trip to Michaels last week resulted in a learning experience. The clerk told me that the managers were watching them; there was a camera above my head to observe the purchase(s); and corporate was complaining about multiple purchases using the 'same' coupon. I print several to use over the course of the week of Michaels, Hobby Lobby, and JoAnn's. Who has the best percent; where I am shopping; or what I pull out of my purse first. Will wonders never cease.


There are plenty of stores who aren't so invasive with their policies. Kohl's (discount department store) and JoAnn's to name just two. I personally don't like to return things, but if I do, I don't want to feel like a criminal returning stolen items.


----------



## knitaway (Nov 12, 2011)

I say tell them what you find offensive or ask why they do what they do and here's the link

http://www.michaels.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Michaels-Site/default/CustomerService-ContactUs


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

knitaway said:


> I say tell them what you find offensive or ask why they do what they do and here's the link
> 
> http://www.michaels.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Michaels-Site/default/CustomerService-ContactUs


What a great idea Knitaway!! Thank you for the link. I sent them an email. I do not like giving any more personal information than I absolutely have to, so my personal info was kept to a minimum and I deleted my email from the response. I entered their corporate phone number in the phone number field, which is 972-409-1300.

If we all take a stand and hit them in their pocketbook maybe...

This is the automated response I received to the email.

*Thank you for contacting Michaels. We value you as a customer and are crafting a response just for you. Our goal is to reply to your communication within 48 hours. This is an automated response to confirm receipt of your e-mail. Service Desk Inquiry #04224513 has been created for you.

Incident Description:
Name = ** **
Email = *****@**.net
Phone = 972-409-1300

Comment = Due to your INVASIVE policy of scanning drivers licenses for all returned merchandise that have valid receipts I will no longer be a customer of Michaels. What were you thinking?

*


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

pocono.carol said:


> knitaway said:
> 
> 
> > I say tell them what you find offensive or ask why they do what they do and here's the link
> ...


You know what, I backed out of the link when they asked not only for my email address but my phone number, too. I'll give them my first name but won't my last name.

If you don't mind, your comment is perfect and I hope it is okay with you but I'm going to do a copy and paste. I'll send them my email address, and first name but that's all.


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> pocono.carol said:
> 
> 
> > knitaway said:
> ...


Of course you can use it, no problem. I used Michael's corporate phone number, not mine. I also did not use my last name, I made up a name. I have an email account for just nuisance mail like this one that does not have any of my personal info on it.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

pocono.carol said:


> knitaway said:
> 
> 
> > I say tell them what you find offensive or ask why they do what they do and here's the link
> ...


Interesting. I filled in all the blanks (gave false last name), wrote in their phone number for requested phone number and I kept getting the message that I didn't fill in all the required fields. So couldn't send my complaint.


----------



## knitaway (Nov 12, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> pocono.carol said:
> 
> 
> > knitaway said:
> ...


I think they want your phone #. Their computer recognizes their own probably.


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> pocono.carol said:
> 
> 
> > knitaway said:
> ...


I sent you a PM


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

knitaway said:


> BarbaraSD said:
> 
> 
> > pocono.carol said:
> ...


I had no problem with using their corporate phone number.

This is a link to Michael's stores in NYC, try using one of those phone numbers and see if that does the trick.

http://hosted.where2getit.com/michaels/


----------



## 3star777 (Sep 13, 2011)

Heads up to anyone who care about their 'complete' privacy.

There's software available to anyone - businesses or private individuals - that identifies you from your IP address. As soon as you connect to their computer they know where you live - with or without your name or email. The IP address - Internet Protocol address - is how the FBI has located people who've made threats. It can lead them not just to your front door but to the very computer you're using - even if you have more than one in your home. Every device has it's own IP address. So if complete privacy is your concern it would be best to not make contact with anyone you think might be stealing your information.


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

3star777 said:


> Heads up to anyone who care about their 'complete' privacy.
> 
> There's software available to anyone - businesses or private individuals - that identifies you from your IP address. As soon as you connect to their computer they know where you live - with or without your name or email. The IP address - Internet Protocol address - is how the FBI has located people who've made threats. It can lead them not just to your front door but to the very computer you're using - even if you have more than one in your home. Every device has it's own IP address. So if complete privacy is your concern it would be best to not make contact with anyone you think might be stealing your information.


Hi 3star777, you are 90% correct. There are two types of IP addresses Static and Dynamic. In the most basic terms, static IP address remain the same all the time, similar to your home address. A Dynamic IP address changes each time you log onto the internet, similar to you driving to one location, then anther, and another, in your car. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Check with your internet carrier to find out which one you have.

This link offers very easy to understand info on the differences of both.
http://whatismyipaddress.com/dynamic-static

Most business may want to have a general idea where you are, similar to the area your zip code covers. It is too expensive for them to track your exact location. The old bang for the buck. Yes there is software out that can pinpoint where you are, just think of all the storage space required to keep that info.

In MHO (My Humble Opinion for our newbies) we have no privacy anymore. As so many others have stated, let's just be as careful as we can to protect what we are able to protect.

Good point 3Star777 :thumbup:


----------



## 3star777 (Sep 13, 2011)

pocono.carol said:


> 3star777 said:
> 
> 
> > Heads up to anyone who care about their 'complete' privacy.
> ...


Thanks for the info - I'm going to research that. I think it's good to know just how and where big brother can 'see' us.
As for who can afford to have the computer storage to hold all of our info? That would be the government of course - using our hard earned money to support it. Don't you feel safer already? 
;-)


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

3star777 said:


> pocono.carol said:
> 
> 
> > 3star777 said:
> ...


Safe, sure do feel safe,  I just bought a new safe and have not told anyone the combination to it. It is on a timer too. A great big harden steel one, such pretty thing.

 OH, you meant do I feel safe now that Big Brother is watching us. :evil: Well....


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

Just read on Google that Yahoo has been hacked into

"Yahoo has confirmed what we reported last night: Hackers broke into a Yahoo server and found a file with more than 400,000 unencrypted email addresses and passwords.

"The hackers, from a group called D33ds Co, posted the 18-megabyte text file online."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-voices-hack-statement-2012-7#ixzz20Sc6bdzb

If you have a Yahoo account it is strongly recommended that you change your password.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hacked-yahoo-user-many-of-us-are-afraid-2012-7


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> Just read on Google that Yahoo has been hacked into
> 
> "Yahoo has confirmed what we reported last night: Hackers broke into a Yahoo server and found a file with more than 400,000 unencrypted email addresses and passwords.
> 
> ...


In general it is a good idea to change you passwords once a month. Change your financial institution passwords more frequently I used to do it, but have become a little lazy. Gentle reminder *NEVER EVER* use anything for a password that someone that knows you could figure out; no family names, pet names, teacher names, places you have lived in, hobbies and so forth. All passwords should have letters and numbers in them (alphanumeric) and a few letters capitalized.

Example: *prettycolor* could be *pr3TtYc010r*. Anything to slow down a hacker.

Most important thing, never access your bank or purchase anything on the net from a public WiFi location.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of hurt. Being safe on the internet is no different than being safe in the real world; you would not leave the keys in your car, with the door unlocked, and engine running. Same on the internet.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

There are websites that will generate a password for you. I've wondered if that is safe to use.



pocono.carol said:


> BarbaraSD said:
> 
> 
> > Just read on Google that Yahoo has been hacked into
> ...


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

I can only answer for myself, I remember password I create more easily than passwords someone else creates. What works for me is, when I am ready to change my password I take a drive or walk, the first thing I see that I like will be my new password = pa33w0Rd
blue sky = bLu3s5Y 
pretty building = pr311bu1lD1ng

You get the idea. That is what works for me.


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

*I was very surprised to see this in my inbox a little while ago. It is the response to email I sent Michael's re: scanning drivers licenses when returning their merchandise. *

This is a notification from the Michaels Customer Care Department.

Your Ticket Number 04224513 has been updated.

Call Description: Due to your INVASIVE policy of scanning drivers licenses for all returned merchandise that have valid receipts I will no
longer be a customer of Michaels. What were you thinking?
----------
New Entry: Dear ***,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We have implemented our new returns system for several reasons. It streamlines the return process and decreases wait time for the customer. It also gives us the ability to use the customer's debit or credit card to find the receipt if they have misplaced or discarded it. The system is intended to help us reduce fraudulent returns which will reduce our costs and allow us to pass those savings on to our customers.

Michaels understands and values our customers' concerns about privacy. Your driver's license number is encrypted immediately upon entry into the system. I also want to assure you that your information will never be sold.

We take customer comments, complaints and suggestions seriously. We know you have choices when deciding where to go for your craft needs. Please feel free to contact us at 1-800-642-4235.

Sincerely,

Michaels Customer Care

CCCallID: 04224513


----------



## nannyberfa (Oct 9, 2011)

I did leave my information. We will see what kind of response we'll get.


----------



## Knit Diva (Apr 17, 2011)

Yup!! There are alot of scammers out there.I work in retail and you see it all. Makes me so angry! You almost don't trust anyone anymore...it's awful! So sad our society has to resort to such measures to deter crooks, theives, etc, etc. I agree, you give more info entering a contest.



courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> 
> Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


----------



## Knit Diva (Apr 17, 2011)

Yup!! There are alot of scammers out there.I work in retail and you see it all. Makes me so angry! You almost don't trust anyone anymore...it's awful! So sad our society has to resort to such measures to deter crooks, theives, etc, etc. I agree, you give more info entering a contest.



courier770 said:


> Retailers often track "returns", people who constantly return goods are often "up to no good" (shoplifting, etc.).
> 
> Who leaves the house without ID? Scanning your drivers license is absolutely no "invasion". You provide more information if you enter a contest.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

No company lets their information get hacked but it happens all the time. Look what just happened with Yahoo. But then they didn't even have our information/passwords encripted. And I seriously doubt any "savings" gets passed on to its customers. It always goes in the pokets of the CEOs and the people who own stock in the company.

I simply won't shop at Michael's or if I do, it will be very small purchases that I know will not need to be returned. And if it does, you can bet I will put up a stink when they ask for my driver's license. There is just no need for them to ask for it if I have my sales receipt and proof of my identification.



pocono.carol said:


> *I was very surprised to see this in my inbox a little while ago. It is the response to email I sent Michael's re: scanning drivers licenses when returning their merchandise. *
> 
> This is a notification from the Michaels Customer Care Department.
> 
> ...


----------



## pocono.carol (Nov 30, 2011)

BarbaraSD said:


> No company lets their information get hacked but it happens all the time. Look what just happened with Yahoo. But then they didn't even have our information/passwords encripted. And I seriously doubt any "savings" gets passed on to its customers. It always goes in the pokets of the CEOs and the people who own stock in the company.
> 
> I simply won't shop at Michael's or if I do, it will be very small purchases that I know will not need to be returned. And if it does, you can bet I will put up a stink when they ask for my driver's license. There is just no need for them to ask for it if I have my sales receipt and proof of my identification.
> 
> ...


To me it boils down to having a valid store receipt, period the end. When someone has a valid receipt *and* they paid cash, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion for our newbies) what Michael's is doing is just plain harassment. It is a means of collecting information that is none of their business . Returning something without a receipt is a completely different thing.

Michael's has nothing I am interested in. Staff that has * NO* knowledge of the product Michael's is selling. Little or no selection in the products they are selling. Zero customer service. I give this craft store chain a few more years before they are not longer business.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

I totally agree with you.



pocono.carol said:


> BarbaraSD said:
> 
> 
> > No company lets their information get hacked but it happens all the time. Look what just happened with Yahoo. But then they didn't even have our information/passwords encripted. And I seriously doubt any "savings" gets passed on to its customers. It always goes in the pokets of the CEOs and the people who own stock in the company.
> ...


----------

