# Is KP becoming agendas filled social media.



## gertysburg (Apr 3, 2017)

I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


----------



## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

People are entitled to their opinions. You'll probably find as many posts from people who say they'll never shop at Walmart, or Joann's, or Michaels, or Target, or any other store.


----------



## ibboop (Aug 14, 2016)

i'm with you on this. lately there are more 'statements' than knitting/crocheting themed comments. 
a craft site is not the place to air all your political ideals.


----------



## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

I feel it’s a place where conversations take place and, like real life, those can go all directions. So then it’s just a matter of personal choice whether it’s a conversation we wish to participate in. 

Before admin created the “Attic,” there were what I considered hateful remarks and I was really close to getting off the site. Now it doesn’t show up often enough to make me want to be that drastic. 

I’m not trying to push you away. I just think you need to figure how much is ok for you.


----------



## jberg (Mar 23, 2011)

Don't leave yet. There are still very many good people here who come mostly for yarn related conversations. Still a great place for inspiration and encouragement. If a topic looks like it will bother you, ignore it. Don't even check it out. just me....Happy Needling. jberg


----------



## sockit2me (Jan 26, 2013)

Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


----------



## fisherwoman (Feb 24, 2012)

Don't sweat the 'small stuff'!

Everyone is entitled to their 'own opinion' on any given topic. You read what you want to read!

On KP, I focus on one thing - and one thing only, that is the lovely PHOTOS that people all over the world create and post which gives me motivation to try new patters and stitches.

That's what makes most sense to me.

Fisherwoman


----------



## Cookiecat (Jan 20, 2014)

]Don't leave yet. There are still very many good people here who come mostly for yarn related conversations. Still a great place for inspiration and encouragement. If a topic looks like it will bother you, ignore it. Don't even check it out. just me....Happy Needling. jberg[/quote]

:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## Cookiecat (Jan 20, 2014)

The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


----------



## Reyna (Oct 24, 2012)

I just use my prerogative and remove myself from negative comments and threads. There is so much that is positive in solving problems, and the highlight of my day is seeing the beautiful shawls, afghans, sweaters, baby and children's knitted garments, sweaters and toys. Some are beginners efforts and others are made with great skill, all worth very much seeing in pictures. I have had so much encouragement from KPers and enjoyment from KP that the occasional negativity will not really affect me.


----------



## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I think it is appropriate in the right section.


----------



## Myrle (Mar 15, 2012)

Nothing in this life is perfect. No matter how good something is there is something that is not within that place or organisation. If we abandoned something because of that what would we have left. 
It is a shame to deny yourself the enjoyment of the good things within KP. There is a section called Main where only knitting and crochet is discussed. There are also other sections that you might find you like, such as pictures, patterns , books, recipes etc. Best not to read in those areas which upset you. Maybe you might rather just stick to things like Main and Patterns where only craft is.


----------



## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

There are different 'topic' discussions for all kinds of subjects. If you don't want to read anything political stick to the 'Main' and the topics that are clearly about knitting, crocheting, or other fiber arts. This discussion comes up often, but this is why there are specific topic heading to post under so everyone can see what the post is about and then choose to read, join in, or not. In fact your post probably should be under 'general discussion' rather than 'Main'. But sometimes the posts get misplaced and the Admin. doesn't catch them to move them. But all this said, please don't leave us. Just go into your profile and change your topics of interest so you get less posts of topics you don't want to read. :sm01:


----------



## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

jberg said:


> Don't leave yet. There are still very many good people here who come mostly for yarn related conversations. Still a great place for inspiration and encouragement. If a topic looks like it will bother you, ignore it. Don't even check it out. just me....Happy Needling. jberg


Lousy conversations start after you've already opened an innocuous post. I never understand when people say just ignore it, don't open it. I do understand abandoning it when it goes south.


----------



## countryknitwit (Nov 13, 2011)

Thank goodness we have choices of where to shop. I chose stores based on what they have to offer me; not political, social or other such things. I may not support Wal-Mart's lower wages, hobby lobbies owners religious convictions, personality of some owners of small businesses, produce imported, etc. Not taking a position on any of them. Nonetheless, they all serve a purpose in the community, employee people that need jobs, pay taxes, etc. I am not shopping for anything but a product, who am I do judge anyone else's business practices? Good prices, clean stores, etc mean more to me.


----------



## Naughty Knitter (Apr 1, 2011)

When a topic stops being agreeable to me, I find another thread. There is so much to read about knitting on KP even if you skip a few threads. There is no reason to abandon the whole site just because of a few things you find offensive and they do not discuss Hobby Lobby daily.


----------



## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Hobby Lobby has been the topic of discussions here many times. It usually gets a tad volatile and then political and then heads to the Attic. Everyone has an opinion, they are free to express but the name calling and some bashing of non and affiliated persons with KP is a faction of cyber bullying, imho. And people on here state they hate bullying but feel free to voice a derogatory remark often directed at someone that cannot respond. That is why the Attic was created and that is precisely where those remarks belong, again, in imho. Very little of the rhetoric affects me personally because I consider most of this site pure anonymous cyber space, the exception of some great friendships that have sprung up over the years. That is sincere communication. Agreeing to disagree with a smile is true debate.


----------



## WendyMargaret (Sep 10, 2014)

The humor in it all, is that no one's opinions change about anything when a wing nut throws in their agenda. Most of us don't give two hoots what they think.
Best response is no response. Makes them crazy.


----------



## m_azingrace (Mar 14, 2012)

Because there are so many really good folks here, willing to share their knowledge with others I just ignore the ones who just want to "stir the pot".
Every lovely garden has a few weeds.


----------



## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Tolerance. To me it means putting up with that which I cannot change. Like tolerating the pain of a toothache until you can see the dentist.

Recently there was a thread apparently about a pattern but in the first post it was obvious the OP was making a political statement.

I accept that others have differing views from mine and that's fine; I accept that any of us can be abrasive at times; I tolerate the thinly veiled political posts. Those posters IMO are the ones with an agenda.


----------



## PapillonThreads (Mar 23, 2012)

I didn't see the post(s) you mention.... so don't know what was said and why.
I have seen some in the past, I just ignore them and move onto other topics.
I shop or don't shop at stores that I want to and I don't care what religion they are... that's just me


----------



## targa416 (Mar 26, 2017)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


Maybe you need to unsubscribe from certain sections. If you stay with "Main", "Pictures" and a few other knit/crochet related sections, you might be more comfortable.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


Thank you. You have said this better than I could have. Hobby Lobby is owned by Christians who are following their beliefs, one of which is being closed on Sunday. If a person wants to shop for craft supplies on Sunday, there are other stores that are open. Christians are just following what the Bible teaches them to do in following their own faith.


----------



## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

There will always be folks who love to complain. Ignore them, don't join them.


----------



## yover8 (Oct 21, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I agree with you. HL does not push their "religious" beliefs on customers, but on employees. To those who say "get a different job"; that is easier said than done - especially after 15 years with that company. It is a valid discussion to inform yarn-buying consumers to whom they are giving their own hard-earned money. No insults required.


----------



## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


.


----------



## targa416 (Mar 26, 2017)

whale watcher said:


> .
> ...
> I share your view of KP also..... KP used to be a nice place; however; it has become so mean and hate filled. There are some nice people left but most are so opinionated and do not use the private messaging system;therefore; they just ruin a good thing.


??????????????
Your opinion is shocking to me.


----------



## m_azingrace (Mar 14, 2012)

"Main" is supposed to be about fiber arts dicsussions. I can tell you from experience that this thread could get moved to a place you definitey do not want to be if we dont start talking about YARN real fast!

So... what are we all working on right now? I just finished a log cabin lapgan, and now have a shawl in progress.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

yover8 said:


> I agree with you. HL does not push their "religious" beliefs on customers, but on employees. To those who say "get a different job"; that is easier said than done - especially after 15 years with that company. It is a valid discussion to inform yarn-buying consumers to whom they are giving their own hard-earned money. No insults required.


What makes you think they are pushing their beliefs on their employees? Have you talked to any employees at Hobby Lobby?


----------



## jinkers (May 24, 2011)

Yes, I understand everyone has opinions and has a right to express his/her opinion (but not knock into someone else if different). However, my personal opinion is that most of us (again, my own personal opinion) came to KNITTING PARADISE for KNITTING info, discussions, patterns, sharing of projects, etc. There are many other sites out there to "express" opinions on other matters.


----------



## Cronewbie (Mar 12, 2014)

I agree with those who say to read the subject line and avoid posts you're not interested in participating in. Frankly, I don't have time to read every post, I scan and read only the ones I think are interesting. If I have extra time, I check out the other posts I skipped. Most of the time I don't. If I only stuck to pictures, I never would have read a post from SL and that would have been a true loss, bc her posts are so uplifting. I start my day with her posts. ????????????


----------



## flhusker (Feb 17, 2011)

Lisa BB said:


> I think it is appropriate in the right section.


The problem I'd many choose to not pot it in the right section and post in the main section.

The comments are not just Hobby Lobby but many other controversial topics that should be in the attic. At one time if you reported a topic as it should be in the attic admin you move it, no so anymore.


----------



## memifour (Mar 4, 2017)

Agree.


----------



## Rosemary Bradford (Jun 23, 2016)

You bring up a subject you know politically charged and then complain about the reaction? Really?


----------



## mikebkk (Oct 6, 2012)

yover8 said:


> I agree with you. HL does not push their "religious" beliefs on customers, but on employees. To those who say "get a different job"; that is easier said than done - especially after 15 years with that company. It is a valid discussion to inform yarn-buying consumers to whom they are giving their own hard-earned money. No insults required.


 :sm24:


----------



## cathy73 (Apr 8, 2013)

I have loved this site so much. Learned so much and enjoy hearing about and seeing all the wonderful things made by members. I do think it has become very much like all the other social media platforms . I have never felt the need for everyone to know my feelings on every subject and I have trouble understanding why people feel the need to be negative. I am using this site less and less. I try to avoid controversial posts, but it makes me tired to have to do that. Knitting Paradise was one of the places I went to to escape all the ugliness in the world and enjoy reading and sharing about knitting and crochet. I liked the general section too, hearing about people's families and helping each other with problems, but rants against goverment and businesses and Christians and general nastiness is disheartening.


----------



## maxjones (Aug 2, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I also feel it is appropriate to post about this here. It gives me more information and and insight when I make yarn purchases.


----------



## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


Personally, I love this site and it's my first "go-to" in the morning. I read it while I'm drinking my coffee. My only suggestion is "Take what you want and leave the rest". I know enough not to visit the Attic, or topics that are controversial. I just read what's of interest to me.


----------



## pmg0123 (Jan 1, 2018)

I skim KP daily. I love the connection with people all over the world. I skip past what I don't want to engage in--if I remove myself because I don't agree with postings, I'd miss the opportunity to connect, e.g. the poster who had just lost her husband, and reached out to the community -- the support she received was significant. I don't agree with everyone, but generally find KP to be a positive, supportive community, especially for knitting and also for other support.


----------



## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

I understand your concerns. I don't know how others feel, but I for one just pass those types of post up.
I get enough from my kids through their emails.


----------



## betty boivin (Sep 12, 2012)

I second pmg0123 opinion, choose what you want to read.


----------



## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

My motto "If it offends don't read or listen" Everyone has the right to their opinion. We do have Chit chat.


----------



## longbeachdesigns (Oct 12, 2017)

Take what you need and leave the rest, no public forum will be exactly in tune with you.


----------



## madkennedy (Apr 2, 2017)

One of the best things about the KP profile is the "ignore list". I am also tired of people expressing their political views on this discussion board. Also tired of the concept that this country is about freedom FROM religion, not religious freedom. So when someone on this list tries to turn the discussion into politics or their dislike of religious freedom, I happily add that person to my ignore list. Civility and respect is very hard to find these days. I don't expect anyone in the world to conform to my values or my religious beliefs. Everyone should just live the golden rule and do their best to be kind. That's all it takes for everyone to get along. I'm sure, this post will get me added to a lot of ignore lists also. I believe in God, I shop at Hobby Lobby, and I am Pro-Life.


----------



## sunnygal (Dec 5, 2015)

Montana Gramma said:


> Hobby Lobby has been the topic of discussions here many times. It usually gets a tad volatile and then political and then heads to the Attic. Everyone has an opinion, they are free to express but the name calling and some bashing of non and affiliated persons with KP is a faction of cyber bullying, imho. And people on here state they hate bullying but feel free to voice a derogatory remark often directed at someone that cannot respond. That is why the Attic was created and that is precisely where those remarks belong, again, in imho. Very little of the rhetoric affects me personally because I consider most of this site pure anonymous cyber space, the exception of some great friendships that have sprung up over the years. That is sincere communication. Agreeing to disagree with a smile is true debate.


What do you mean by the attic?


----------



## Vickie P (May 18, 2017)

I choose what posts I read. If I don't like the opinions being offered I stop reading and move on. No one is making me read anything here.


----------



## whitetail (Feb 19, 2011)

Totally agree with you.


----------



## williesmom (Feb 16, 2012)

sunnygal said:


> What do you mean by the attic?


The Attic is a section of KP reserved for controversial subjects. There is a lot of political discussion, among other things. You must subscribe to see it on your daily digest, or visit it specifically. Some posters avoid it like the plague. Others post exclusively there.
There is also the Solarium, which touts itself as the polar opposite of the Attic.


----------



## helen1234 (Oct 27, 2013)

I agree this site is becoming a social media site. I enjoyed the site when it was about knitting. If you want to talk about other things then start a social media site. I also am thinking about dropping out from the site.


----------



## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

I agree with you wholeheartedly. This is suppose to be a place to share our joy of knit and crochet and to advise others when they need assistance. I don't care for nor do I read the political issues either. Whether you are a Trump fan or the opposite I don't want to hear about any of that either. I am sure there are sites that are just for that sort of thing. Here it should be about our work as fiber artists and the things related to it.


----------



## gertysburg (Apr 3, 2017)

I am trying a sweater with steeking for the first time. I'm trying to teach an old dog new tricks. Appreciate the help I find on this site.


----------



## gertysburg (Apr 3, 2017)

I was referring to a post a woman shared very excited about her new yarn our purchase from HL. It was followed by several people attacking the store, not the yarn. I do avoid the topics that are obvious not my cup of tea.
I do love yarn, spin much of my own, but sometimes I need synthetics and great colors


----------



## stitcheswarden10 (Jul 24, 2014)

I find many comments to be judgemental but at the same time I have enjoyed the insights people give to questions asked. I myself have stopped asking questions. I asked three and two were answered in what I felt were rude and thoughtless.....so I quit asking and continue reading the many informative answers from others.


----------



## RobbiD (Nov 13, 2012)

jvallas said:


> Lousy conversations start after you've already opened an innocuous post. I never understand when people say just ignore it, don't open it. I do understand abandoning it when it goes south.


A sensible solution. And it works for me. :sm02: I enjoy the help and encouragement that so many on this site are willing to share. When a topic goes south, I just move on to the next topic.


----------



## Teddy bear (Jun 23, 2016)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I wholeheartedly support a business that chooses to close on Sunday in order to Keep Holy the Sabbath. Some believe Saturday, some believe Sunday -

Quite frankly, I truly like the idea that Sunday is a day for families - I believe we would all be better off being closer with our families.

And before you jump on me, I didn't say it would work for or with ALL family members. But over time, one never knows. ....


----------



## Teddy bear (Jun 23, 2016)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


Agreed


----------



## stitcheswarden10 (Jul 24, 2014)

Oh, by the way, I have also observed rude comments to others many times. However, basically most people are informative, creative, helpful, and even funny. Thanks for KP!!


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

I think it helps to put things into perspective. You’re likely not bothered if someone says they don’t like the taste of broccoli when it’s one of your favorites. On the other hand, you shouldn’t expect someone’s else to admonish you because you enjoy broccoli. 

There are some things that folks are more passionate about than other things. Those folks can become very heated when discussing those things they are passionate about. I think we would all do well to step back a bit when things get heated and remind ourselves that everyone is unique and won’t ever agree on every issue, but that uniqueness shouldn’t stand in the way of allowing others to have their own opinion on a topic. Chances are we are more alike than we are different.


----------



## saukvillesu (Jan 10, 2013)

I agree with Cookiecat. Don't let a few opinionated comments force you away. Just click off conversations that are turning ugly to you.


----------



## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

You don't have to read all the posts,you know.If you don't fancy the title,don't read it.


----------



## knitteerli (Jun 3, 2015)

Like you, many people post opinions that are only slightly knitting related. We love some stuff and hate other stuff. Echo chambers can bore people off the site, too.


----------



## mairmie (Jun 16, 2011)

Reyna said:


> I just use my prerogative and remove myself from negative comments and threads. There is so much that is positive in solving problems, and the highlight of my day is seeing the beautiful shawls, afghans, sweaters, baby and children's knitted garments, sweaters and toys. Some are beginners efforts and others are made with great skill, all worth very much seeing in pictures. I have had so much encouragement from KPers and enjoyment from KP that the occasional negativity will not really affect me.


I agree 100%!!


----------



## susanmjackson (Feb 7, 2011)

jvallas said:


> Lousy conversations start after you've already opened an innocuous post. I never understand when people say just ignore it, don't open it. I do understand abandoning it when it goes south.


Many times I have opened a post hoping for some good advise or suggestions only to see the political or religious discussions have started. At that point I just close the post and move on if I am not interested. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can simply move past those posts if I want. No need to get upset or leave the site. There are so many more posts that don't get into those discussions.


----------



## carriemae (Aug 28, 2012)

Totally agree and stop the politics too. KP should be one place in the world without negativity


----------



## klh1016 (Oct 20, 2017)

Simple, if you don't like something, anything about a store or company then just don't patronize them!


----------



## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


Well put. We all have places we do or do not buy from for a variety of reasons. We may agree or disagree but that's no reason to leave the forum. if fact I find it rather silly reason to leave a forum.

I know nothing about hobby Lobby as it's not a shop found in the UK so I'd be happy to hear what people have to say about it and any other shop.

I know about some of your other shops because I've read about them, people have told me their experience with them. So I love to hear what people have to say about a business as then I can make an informed decision as to whether I wish to spend my money there or not.

It's about being consummer aware that includes where we buy our yarn from.


----------



## frani512 (Apr 15, 2012)

jvallas said:


> I feel it's a place where conversations take place and, like real life, those can go all directions. So then it's just a matter of personal choice whether it's a conversation we wish to participate in.
> 
> Before admin created the "Attic," there were what I considered hateful remarks and I was really close to getting off the site. Now it doesn't show up often enough to make me want to be that drastic.
> 
> I'm not trying to push you away. I just think you need to figure how much is ok for you.


I agree with you, jvallas. A few years ago it was out of control. There is more good on this site than bad. When a topic does not appeal to me, I just stop reading. I'm here to enjoy everyone's work and learn from it.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


What did it for me was hobby lobby knowingly purchased black market religious artifacts then smuggling them into this country. They were told before they bought these items the money was going to terrists and they purchased they anyway. Greed replaced common sense. Everyone has a right to their religious beliefs but to smuggle items into this country is another thing.


----------



## dino0726 (Nov 1, 2016)

I have gone to both places on this site, both where political comments are welcome and those where they are not. Maybe the posts that run more politically biased can be flagged to be moved to 'The Attic' or some other place like that. There should be a safe place to just talk about knitting and/or crochet without feeling like you're being attacked just for your choice of where you shop.


----------



## Caroline19 (Jun 6, 2011)

When I first joined my husband's family at the age of 21, my father in law told me that one of his golden rules (for himself, not any anyone else) was never to talk politics or religion at social or family gatherings. He and I were polar opposites where politics were concerned so it seemed like good advice. We had a wonderful father daughter relationship and we were not going to ruin it by arguing over party politics or what God we should or shouldn't worship. Both he and my husband are no longer with us and now as I sit at the head of our family dinner table on special occasions, my adult children will talk politics and I am intrigued by all their different viewpoints. They seem to respect the fact that we all have different opinions and should be able to express those opinions without malice or hatred. What is very clear is that they are never hurtful or mean towards each other and are respectful even when they may disagree. To me that is a good thing and maybe our world would be a better place if we all showed respect even when we disagree. We also have freedom of choice and that's what I love about KP. I can chose what I want to read about or not and I appreciate the advice and opinions shared by our members here at KP for the most part. When a topic goes down a dark alley, I chose to move on to another topic. You and my first cup of coffee are a great way to start my day so thank you!!


----------



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


This post has been a shocker for me. No, I don't read every post or topic, but I have only a couple time read something that to me was unnecessary, but certainly not in the way you have stated. I have been helped by so many of these KP'ers that it by far out ways any thing negative. However, if you feel strongly enough about this you should go else where instead of trying to spread the negative feelings. You have surely made me question all the positive I have seen here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I respectfully disagree. Section topics are carefully divided. To avoid political opinion pages, avoid General Chit Chat, The Attic, Progressive Women's Forum. Topics are frequently moved. If you think something is in the wrong area, Report Abuse and Admin should review.

KP has something for everyone.



ibboop said:


> i'm with you on this. lately there are more 'statements' than knitting/crocheting themed comments.
> a craft site is not the place to air all your political ideals.


----------



## BlueBerry36 (Mar 10, 2016)

Remember we aren't here to judge God does in his time.. Sometimes people also repeat things they see or hear and may or maybe true. So I'm saying is nobody is perfect or always truthful especially newspapers, tv ,radio. So don't read what you don't like an leave the rest or pictures. Your the only one that can do that... Good luck whatever you do. Remember always Good and Bad In every situation....


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: Well put. Hobby Lobby has chosen to operate under their beliefs. Customers will react according to their beliefs. Freedom.


----------



## Southern Gal (Apr 6, 2011)

:sm19: Finally, well said.


----------



## Southern Gal (Apr 6, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> Thank you. You have said this better than I could have. Hobby Lobby is owned by Christians who are following their beliefs, one of which is being closed on Sunday. If a person wants to shop for craft supplies on Sunday, there are other stores that are open. Christians are just following what the Bible teaches them to do in following their own faith.


 :sm19: Finally well said. thank you


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If their health insurance prohibits all forms of birth control, I would infer that Hobby Lobby inflicts their beliefs on their employees. IMHO



Evie RM said:


> What makes you think they are pushing their beliefs on their employees? Have you talked to any employees at Hobby Lobby?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Opinions are just that...opinions.



cathy73 said:


> I have loved this site so much. Learned so much and enjoy hearing about and seeing all the wonderful things made by members. I do think it has become very much like all the other social media platforms . I have never felt the need for everyone to know my feelings on every subject and I have trouble understanding why people feel the need to be negative. I am using this site less and less. I try to avoid controversial posts, but it makes me tired to have to do that. Knitting Paradise was one of the places I went to to escape all the ugliness in the world and enjoy reading and sharing about knitting and crochet. I liked the general section too, hearing about people's families and helping each other with problems, but rants against goverment and businesses and Christians and general nastiness is disheartening.


----------



## cafeknitter (Apr 2, 2013)

I understand where you’re coming from. I tend to ignore those comments. On one occasion I did post that there wasn’t a need for unkindness. 
The amount of good out weighs the not so good. 
I refer to us all as “ my kp family”!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go to Home. View all Sections. The Attic is there along with many other sections you might enjoy.



sunnygal said:


> What do you mean by the attic?


----------



## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

I haven't seen any recent hobby lobby posts. This company has chosen to politicize it's religious views and as such , has opened itself to receive negative comments from those who find this distasteful and unbuisnesslike. You don't have to heed the comments if the public position Hobby Lobby has taken does not bother you. Shopping preferences are personal and no one really influences my decision to shop a store if my experiences there have been positive. Once the comment starts to go into an area you don't want to see, go on to the next comment!


----------



## mydebtwaspaid (Sep 6, 2013)

:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A love of knitting and crochet does not preclude an interest in many other things...for many people, not all people. Be firm in your interests and beliefs without infringing on others. That's my opinion.



helen1234 said:


> I agree this site is becoming a social media site. I enjoyed the site when it was about knitting. If you want to talk about other things then start a social media site. I also am thinking about dropping out from the site.


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

I have learned to skip over certain posters on this site and enjoy the parts of KP that are good. I wish when anyone wants to get political they would post in the Attic.


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


Ignore what you find irritating and move on. Why give up on such a great site as KP surely is, just because of a few people you find irritating or don't agree with?


----------



## mydebtwaspaid (Sep 6, 2013)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


Well said Cookiecat! :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## aidansnanny (May 7, 2017)

I agree no need to comment every time someone posts something you don't agree with. the thing that bothers me the most is the copyright police on here, every time i request if someone has a pattern to share I get attacked by the copyright police, i am very aware of copyright rules , recently I was accused of always wanting something for nothing, and she went on to say I probably shoplifted too and was very nasty, nobody needs this, if you're only on here to cause trouble, please leave the rest of us in peace and get off the site.


----------



## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

Personally I can handle the criticism of a store and can be helpful but I feel that this is not a political forum and needs to be dealt with. We are knitters/ crocheters not politicians.


----------



## polly p (Jun 7, 2015)

This forum is world wide. I don't relate to Joann's and Michael's and Hobby Lobby Wal-Mart etc so don't comment on them, but there is so much to read and comment on, and people are a mine of information. I have learned so much. Vive Knitting Paradise!


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

Munchn said:


> Personally I can handle the criticism of a store and can be helpful but I feel that this is not a political forum and needs to be dealt with. We are knitters/ crocheters not politicians.


Might I suggest that you not subscribe to the following topics:. The Attic and the Solarium both of which are political based. As far as "General topics" occasionally a political post is originally posted there however administration is usually pretty good about moving it to the Attic or the Solarium. You can limit what you see by only subscribing to "Main"!


----------



## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

It’s a very valid topic to discuss. Don’t forget their case against their female employees went to Supreme Court. They also went into national news when they made anti semantic remarks. This is not the type of store I like to support no matter how great their yarn or scrapbooking supplies may be


----------



## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

I agree with you. There is no way I’m shopping there EVER


----------



## mover (Jan 13, 2018)

This is not a site to slam anyone's political views or religion or where they shop etc.Let's embrace each other and honour our uniqueness.


----------



## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

And the choice is yours. Leave or stay. Hobby Lobby will still be in business. Some of us will shop there and some of us wont.
And even after you go there will be discussions that "ANNOY" some KPer's.
Just the facts of life. You cant please all the people all the time.
OR you can just IGNORE those posts that bother you. Just like some of us do.


----------



## Temple (Jun 18, 2012)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I shop Hobby Lobby for their great selection of yarns & buttons. They have the largest selection of yarns, more than any other store in the area, even larger than the local yarn store that used to be in the center of town.


----------



## Temple (Jun 18, 2012)

countryknitwit said:


> Thank goodness we have choices of where to shop. I chose stores based on what they have to offer me; not political, social or other such things. I may not support Wal-Mart's lower wages, hobby lobbies owners religious convictions, personality of some owners of small businesses, produce imported, etc. Not taking a position on any of them. Nonetheless, they all serve a purpose in the community, employee people that need jobs, pay taxes, etc. I am not shopping for anything but a product, who am I do judge anyone else's business practices? Good prices, clean stores, etc mean more to me.


Perfect answer, I agree completely!


----------



## MartiG (Jan 21, 2012)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I agree with you. And for those who don't care for this type of interchange I think the wonderful photos, helpful responses to questions, and sincere appreciation of other's handiwork far outweigh, number-wise, these types of discussions. Perhaps look at it as just a heads up to what a store represents just as we discuss good or bad customer service experiences and needle quality as ways of keeping each other informed re Knitting-related matters.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


So true. Few places have such a obvious religious agenda, therefore, on a knitting forum it is absolutely proper to comment. I typically stay away from anything that has their name in it as it is totally against my way of thinking.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Munchn said:


> Personally I can handle the criticism of a store and can be helpful but I feel that this is not a political forum and needs to be dealt with. We are knitters/ crocheters not politicians.


One doesn't need to be a polititian to have a valid opinion based on fact-based research. This is a GREAT forum for political issues. If it is offensive, ignore and move on.
I believe it has already been pointed out that their Christian beliefs have them witholding paying for birth control for Female employees (wonder if Viagra is supplied to Males) and the company and spokespersons have put forth anti-semitic drivel. (Google it). 
So, I submit, they are not practicing Christian beliefs as Jesus was a Jew.
I'm with Damemary!
Open minds, fact-based research, science based facts, can't go wrong with good research.


----------



## Finnsbride (Feb 8, 2011)

Quite often the title of the post lets you know what it will be about. I just skip the political ones and look at the knitting posts. It also helps when people put a K or C in their post title. I don't have any issues with crocheted posts but since I don't know how to crochet, and because my time is limited, I just move on to the knitting topics. Don't leave. This is such a valuable resource and we can mostly use it the way we wish.


----------



## alexdoc (Feb 11, 2016)

We sometimes don't agree, but we are entitled to our beliefs the same as you are. Ignore the rants and enjoy the parts that don't annoy you.


----------



## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

MindyT said:


> One doesn't need to be a polititian to have a valid opinion based on fact-based research. This is a GREAT forum for political issues. If it is offensive, ignore and move on.
> I believe it has already been pointed out that their Christian beliefs have them witholding paying for birth control for Female employees (wonder if Viagra is supplied to Males) and the company and spokespersons have put forth anti-semitic drivel. (Google it).
> So, I submit, they are not practicing Christian beliefs as Jesus was a Jew.
> I'm with Damemary!
> Open minds, fact-based research, science based facts, can't go wrong with good research.


The insurance offered to employees by Hobby Lobby will not pay for birth control for the women but does pay for Viagra and other erectile dysfunction meds for the men. Some who refuse to shop there do so in support of the women employees who are subjected to these policies.


----------



## pamjlee (Mar 11, 2012)

Well I happen to love Hobby Lobby yarn. If someone asks about yarn and I say I love “I love Thus Yarn”, that is my opinion and I am certainly intitled to it. No politics just an opinion on yarn. I think that you may have done the some attacking here by criticizing others views. IMHO.


----------



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

pamjlee said:


> Well I happen to love Hobby Lobby yarn. If someone asks about yarn and I say I love "I love Thus Yarn", that is my opinion and I am certainly intitled to it. No politics just an opinion on yarn. I think that you may have done the some attacking here by criticizing others views. IMHO.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

If Hobby Lobby was just simply owned by a family who is of a certain faith, I would shop there. It's their pounding that faith into everything from their employees by denying them certain types of birth control, it's by the subliminal Christian music they play on a loop in their stores, it's the influence they are pounding into the PUBLIC school system of Oklahoma, it's the religion-based Supreme court decision that factors into all of our lives and the latest thing is the theft of artifacts from Iraq (a country we annihilated for false reasons), lying about how and why they did it. I think this is important to bring up in a knitting forum, no matter how nice we wish things would be. I, for one, do not want the little money I have to go to greedy, morally inept, unscrupulous businesses.


----------



## dunnville89 (Apr 24, 2012)

We cannot stop people from expressing viewpoints, even if they're irrelevant. I just ignore the things I find unpleasant or controversial.


----------



## WaterFall (Oct 5, 2012)

use this site and enjoy but if you are the owner of hobby lobby than different but again when here just think of this site , site is nice and friendly .


----------



## faigiezipper (Apr 25, 2011)

I have. Search further.


----------



## sandyridge (Nov 15, 2014)

I enjoy reading the newsletter and do so daily with my morning coffee. I do not mind seeing opposing opinions as they may present a view I had not taken into consideration. What I don't like is when the comments become nasty or directed at a poster. Some topics seem to really bring out some overly sharp jabs. I don't think this benefits anyone. Sometimes the remarks get so hostile that they reinforce my disdain for the topic instead of awakening enlightenment and support. I will not point out specific issues or names , but some of the posters really should proof read their remarks and see how they might come across.


----------



## Fiona3 (Feb 6, 2014)

I say if you do not like the store, don’t shop there! Last I heard we still live in a free country.

Please do not let the “ugly” comments of those people who are against a certain store, a certain way of doing something bother you. 

Fiona. ????????????


----------



## faigiezipper (Apr 25, 2011)

People post here when they are happy or unhappy about shopping experiences at yarn shops and the quality of yarn. This is no different. If it upsets you, don’t read it. I think this is definitely the place for it. We are not complaining about a drug store or a hair dresser, we are complaining about a place that sells YARN. If you follow their beliefs, then shop there. I think people have a right to not shop there if they do not think the company treats everyone fairly.


----------



## CindyWal (Sep 22, 2017)

jberg said:


> Don't leave yet. There are still very many good people here who come mostly for yarn related conversations. Still a great place for inspiration and encouragement. If a topic looks like it will bother you, ignore it. Don't even check it out. just me....Happy Needling. jberg


I agree. That's what I do. There are so many great posts here that I try to ignore those that bother me.


----------



## Donna M. (Oct 1, 2013)

As I say on Face Book. If you do not like what they are saying, don't read it JUST SCROLL ON DOWN


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> This is on main yet sockit2me had to make it political. So it always seems to get in.


This is what the original poster and others were talking about. Someone chiming in and posting derogatory things. That seems to be what you do best now isn't it. Can you please go back to the Solarium??


----------



## alidakyle (Dec 20, 2011)

DMIT Diva said:


> I think it helps to put things into perspective. You're likely not bothered if someone says they don't like the taste of broccoli when it's one of your favorites. On the other hand, you shouldn't expect someone's else to admonish you because you enjoy broccoli.
> 
> There are some things that folks are more passionate about than other things. Those folks can become very heated when discussing those things they are passionate about. I think we would all do well to step back a bit when things get heated and remind ourselves that everyone is unique and won't ever agree on every issue, but that uniqueness shouldn't stand in the way of allowing others to have their own opinion on a topic. Chances are we are more alike than we are different.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


I am one of those who do agree with your.... but the Attic dwellers sometimes vent here as well. It is sometimes necessary to consider the source and skip over some of those posts, without reading.


----------



## Madassie (Jan 21, 2015)

I visit KP every day, never miss a day but I never noticed this issue so maybe it is also a matter of your focus. You never see red cars until you buy a red car yourself and than you see them everywhere. Ignore it, don't leave.


----------



## maureen0614 (Dec 16, 2012)

sockittome said:

"Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum."

I wholeheartedly agree. He did not raise the subject, he was responding to the initial inquiry. Hobby Lobby is not merely expressing personal religious beliefs. Its pursuit of issues to the Supreme Court has distorted the laws of this country in a manner that negatively impacts women. I will not contribute financial support to such an agenda.


----------



## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't especially care for their ideas, but this country was founded on freedom of relegion. I love their yarn, so I shop there.


----------



## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I agree. I "shop my conscience" in all stores and businesses, so it is useful to me to know Hobby Lobby's political stance so I will not support it.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## LewzOurselves (Oct 19, 2017)

I haven’t read everyone’s comments, but I’m just here for the awesome pictures of hard-worked projects, tips and ideas, and a feeling of belonging to a group of people with a shared interest (which I don’t have in person bc no one I know does Needle crafts). Everyone has been very supportive of anything I’ve asked and had questions on, so I love KP.


----------



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

LewzOurselves said:


> I haven't read everyone's comments, but I'm just here for the awesome pictures of hard-worked projects, tips and ideas, and a feeling of belonging to a group of people with a shared interest (which I don't have in person bc no one I know does Needle crafts). Everyone has been very supportive of anything I've asked and had questions on, so I love KP.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


They *do* force employees to accept their religious beliefs, refuse to buy contraceptive health insurance for them, etc. Plus got caught smuggling in stolen Middle Eastern archeological objects for their bible museum.

I choose to not support them.


----------



## runa fernanda (Oct 25, 2017)

There are stores I do not patronize, and products I don't buy, for whatever reasons. I would rather not discuss such things in the KP site. If others want to, that's okay by me, but I generally just skip by those discussions. I get quite enough politics elsewhere. I do understand that feelings can run high, mine sure can, but not here. Not to mention that right now I am focused on the "tempestry" that I'm trying to knit using the linen stitch. Wow, I am not very experienced, and it will show, but I plan to do another anyway, after I finish the first one. They will represent one location 75 years apart.


----------



## susieM (Dec 11, 2017)

If I thought HL used their profits for immoral purposes, I would not shop there. However, it doesnt bother me that a religious company displays their beliefs. I suppose they do alot of good with their money.


----------



## smidge1952 (Mar 4, 2013)

We don't have Hobby Lobby in the UK (I've never come across one anyway) so I cannot pass an opinion.
However I find this site invaluable I've learnt a lot and laughed lots.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> Actually, it was sockit2me who did..You also did what you accused me of! Can you please go back to the atTIC??


Please enlighten be about my turning this into a political issue?

Sorry I ever replied to your nonsense in the first place! Don't bother enlightening me because I am sure it will garbage like it is "Obama's fault or Hillary's fault". Just go away far far away!


----------



## jeanbess (Aug 20, 2011)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


I just pass them why would 
I deprive myself off all the good advise and friends on here ,have learned so much


----------



## hazelroselooms (Oct 19, 2016)

"a craft site is not the place to air all your political ideals."

Isn't that what this thread is about?!


----------



## hazelroselooms (Oct 19, 2016)

"a craft site is not the place to air all your political ideals."


----------



## jeanne63 (Mar 14, 2014)

I agree completely...a bit ago I posted “CBS this morning” just stating that I like the show, etc...it quickly went DOWN A RAT HOLE with 256 replies of all sorts of garbage about everything other than the title. My post was moved to the “attic” probably because of the responses. 
It’s disgusting where some people go on this KNITTING FORUM. Yes, we all have opinions but post where they belong...the dark web, perhaps? Wherever that is.

IMHO


----------



## konagirl (Jan 15, 2017)

If I don't like a place, I simply do not shop there. My beliefs are not relevant to this site. I'm only interested in helpful hints and ideas for crocheting or knitting.


----------



## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

I can't grasp the concept of 'blocking' someone when you don't like what they say. Isn't that what the US is based on, being able to express your opinion?? Just back out of that conversation and move on to one you are happier taking part in.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> Don't tell me what to do... sorry you did too!
> 
> The point is you should have skipped over my comment but you always have to add your two cents!
> 
> P.S. I think you meant "me" not "be".


I see you are now the grammar police! So glad you are on my ignore list and will remain there preventing you from replying to my topics. So done with you crap!


----------



## Silver Goddess (Jan 5, 2015)

I live in a very rural area. I have no access to many brick and mortar, for your example Hobby Lobby. I like hearing the positive and the negative regarding a business, because I may come across them when traveling. In some instances it helps.


----------



## Tootsie (Mar 16, 2011)

I liked Sockit2me's comment. AND I often scroll by when a topic is disagreeable to me. No one says you must read every entry...thank goodness. I spend enough time here already!????


----------



## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Why would you punish yours because of some one else opinion. The best thing to do with opinions you do not agree with is to ignore them and go on your way, but not to shut yourself off from all the other things you like.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


This is essentially the same as my point of view regarding Hobby Lobby.

I have been a member of real life knitting/crochet groups. At no time has anyone ever tried to limit what was talked about there, whether in LYS's, restaurants, libraries, or someone's home. The idea of limiting the free speech of others seems like a dangerous practice. When I find myself in a thread that gets too unpleasant for me, I simply move on. I may or may not state my opinion as I go, but I'm responsible for my own comfort level and I am the only one with any control over my environment, online or off. The idea of joining a worldwide forum, then demanding that others change to suit my particular tastes, seems unrealistic and unfair to me. If I don't like some part of it, I avoid that part. I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either, so I pick and choose here just as I do elsewhere.


----------



## hildy3 (Jan 29, 2011)

Okay!! I have read all the posts! Phew! My only question is why the subject always turns to Hobby Lobby? Has anyone checked how many other stores close on Sunday? Do any of you remember growing up in the era when stores closed at 6 pm daily and were never open on on Sunday?? It was to attend church and a family day. Daddy always took us for a long car ride Sunday...Mom and Dad and 3 kids! He always managed to need gas, so he stopped at the "filling station" and we always got "funny books" from the owner....oh..those were the days!


----------



## wolfey9 (Aug 17, 2011)

Hobby Lobby has made themselves political by wanting to incorporate and yet maintain their political preferences. It has an impact on female society with its' actions. Any time that it is mentioned, the topic comes to peoples' minds.

Other craft stores bring up positive and negative experiences which we share. If you bring up HL, you bring up this experience as well. I personally had forgotten about the anti-Semitic comments.

However, facts and opinions should be presented, not name calling. If you have an opinion, present the facts as you have heard them and then your opinion. If you disagree with an opinion, you are welcome to let people know in a respectful way. Name calling is childish and a waste of time. If you want someone to pay attention to your opinions, you do not insult them. 

If you have a personal vendetta with someone, use personal email. But please be civil.

If you want to talk about HL, their baggage will come up.


----------



## wolfey9 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry meant to say religious preference in the first line.


----------



## jansews (Jan 27, 2015)

Lisa BB said:


> I think it is appropriate in the right section.


I agree and if you don't want to read it, just ignore the post. Like another poster said everyone is entitled to their opinion and if I don't agree with it I ignore it. I'm more interested in the pics and knitting help or links with great tutorials. Comments in the General Chit Chat area are fun to read about. I always enjoy Bundyanne's comments about what is going on in her life e.g.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

Tootsie said:


> I liked Sockit2me's comment. AND I often scroll by when a topic is disagreeable to me. No one says you must read every entry...thank goodness. I spend enough time here already!????


I also liked her comment. Unfortunately the poster who posted the derogatory comments has a bad habit of stirring up things. I think she/he does it just to see what they can stir up.


----------



## CarolA (Sep 4, 2013)

When a post catches my eye and I'm interested in reading it I open it. If it isn't something I care to read thoroughly I close it and go to the next one. I don't waste time reading posts that are depressive or argumentative. Just like the tv, this comes with an off button. I don't agree with a lot of posts so I just pass them on by. Life is too short to waste it on negativity. imho And thank goodness that hasn't been outlawed yet (mho). lol


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


Our local Hobby Lobby (haven't been there in the past eight years) had a prominent sign in the entryway stating that they don't do business on Sundays because of their religious practices. Actually, they continue taking orders on their website on Sundays, which some try to tell me is not doing business because they don't fill the orders until Monday. They do, however, accept payment on Sundays, so that's doing business in my opinion. How many other craft stores prominently post statements of Christian faith? How many other craft store owners are illegally doing business in religious artifacts for their new religious museum (caught by Customs for the second time, seriously fined the first time)? These are examples of being different from standard business practices. If they were any religion other than self-proclaimed Christians, I imagine there would be quite an uproar over their practices.


----------



## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> This is essentially the same as my point of view regarding Hobby Lobby.
> 
> I have been a member of real life knitting/crochet groups. At no time has anyone ever tried to limit what was talked about there, whether in LYS's, restaurants, libraries, or someone's home. The idea of limiting the free speech of others seems like a dangerous practice. When I find myself in a thread that gets too unpleasant for me, I simply move on. I may or may not state my opinion as I go, but I'm responsible for my own comfort level and I am the only one with any control over my environment, online or off. The idea of joining a worldwide forum, then demanding that others change to suit my particular tastes, seems unrealistic and unfair to me. If I don't like some part of it, I avoid that part. I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either, so I pick and choose here just as I do elsewhere.


Well said.


----------



## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

SAMkewel said:


> This is essentially the same as my point of view regarding Hobby Lobby.
> 
> I have been a member of real life knitting/crochet groups. At no time has anyone ever tried to limit what was talked about there, whether in LYS's, restaurants, libraries, or someone's home. The idea of limiting the free speech of others seems like a dangerous practice. When I find myself in a thread that gets too unpleasant for me, I simply move on. I may or may not state my opinion as I go, but I'm responsible for my own comfort level and I am the only one with any control over my environment, online or off. The idea of joining a worldwide forum, then demanding that others change to suit my particular tastes, seems unrealistic and unfair to me. If I don't like some part of it, I avoid that part. I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either, so I pick and choose here just as I do elsewhere.


I agree 100%! My personal irritation is the topic with the word "rant" in it. Even though I know I will get upset at some of the replies from some ladies who obviously did not fully read or understand the op message ( or who are just mean spirited), I seem to be unable from following them to the bitter end. I am schooling myself to ignore them, but end up reading them more often than not. I would. however, NEVER dream of telling anyone that this is not the place for them! One person's irritation is another person's joy.


----------



## tdorminey (Mar 22, 2011)

ibboop said:


> i'm with you on this. lately there are more 'statements' than knitting/crocheting themed comments.
> a craft site is not the place to air all your political ideals.


Agree that other venues might be more appropriate for non-knitting-related postings/issues. If this is the only forum on which you post, please be aware that *Main* category is for posts related to knitting/crochet/SWD. If you want to post an opinion, tell a story, ask for non-craft advice, etc, there is the *Chit Chat* category available for these topics. If you are not currently subscribed to this category, go to My Profile (at top of the page) and subscribe. You are free there to post on anything you want to discuss.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

jinkers said:


> Yes, I understand everyone has opinions and has a right to express his/her opinion (but not knock into someone else if different). However, my personal opinion is that most of us (again, my own personal opinion) came to KNITTING PARADISE for KNITTING info, discussions, patterns, sharing of projects, etc. There are many other sites out there to "express" opinions on other matters.


I spend most of my free time on KP. If I had to hop, skip, and jump to other sites every time I wanted to say something to someone, many of whom are my friends, I'd be very unhappy. I can't take my friends with me, I can't have a well-rounded life if I can discuss only one subject here, and I have never heard of an exclusively knitting/crocheting site anywhere to which I can refer anyone, nor can I afford to start my own forum and run it 24/7. PM's limit the conversation to interacting with one other person; I want to interact with all of those who are interested in any given topic. I don't see why those who don't like a topic feel that one or two clicks to get away from/unwatch a topic is unreasonable.

I've been pretty much housebound for the past 18 months, so I don't have the option of going out into the local community to interact. This forum has been a lifesaver for me in dealing with my situation.

I continue to believe that Admin, who earns his livelihood with his forums, would not have set this forum up the way he has unless he wanted it to be more all-inclusive, and I also believe he knew he couldn't please everyone 100% regardless of what he does. These are just things to think about.....


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Personally I look to this list for honest, non political gain for subjects going on in the world. This group has proven to me that they will pitch right in to help anyone and believe you me not too many groups can be said the same about.
We all have opinions which is a good thing. I would like to see more open views given with reasoning behind them. Not bashing, just opinions.
I asked my Grandson once if he was a Democrat or a Republican . He said I think both sides have some good points. So lets look to each other for our good points of why we feel some issue is good or not good. 
Happy knitting and thank each and every one for caring enough to give their take on subjects especially knitting.


----------



## godsbellybutton (Jan 13, 2015)

Ladies (and gentlemen),

I have spent my adult life coming to grips with the fact that many individuals and institutions do not approve of me, and some even hate me, because of who and what I am.

I am a 62 year-old, obese, gay, amputee, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, lover of God, skeptic of organized religion, who must work to maintain my group health insurance in order to stay alive. If i were also thin-skinned, I would also have to stop reading. Life is too short to take offense at every opinion that does not agree with my own. Who else has my unique perspective that brought me to now? Of course nobody.

A little patience with the foibles of others might make each of us a lot happier. Just sayin'.


----------



## Giroldi (Feb 14, 2012)

I enjoy all the posts and don't usually read all the petty stuff. Just read what you want to and forget all the garbage!


----------



## katzeh (Sep 7, 2012)

countryknitwit said:


> Thank goodness we have choices of where to shop. I chose stores based on what they have to offer me; not political, social or other such things. I may not support Wal-Mart's lower wages, hobby lobbies owners religious convictions, personality of some owners of small businesses, produce imported, etc. Not taking a position on any of them. Nonetheless, they all serve a purpose in the community, employee people that need jobs, pay taxes, etc. I am not shopping for anything but a product, who am I do judge anyone else's business practices? Good prices, clean stores, etc mean more to me.


Well said!


----------



## marty1136 (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm with you Gettysburg. lately I've felt the same as you.


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

Reyna said:


> I just use my prerogative and remove myself from negative comments and threads. There is so much that is positive in solving problems, and the highlight of my day is seeing the beautiful shawls, afghans, sweaters, baby and children's knitted garments, sweaters and toys. Some are beginners efforts and others are made with great skill, all worth very much seeing in pictures. I have had so much encouragement from KPers and enjoyment from KP that the occasional negativity will not really affect me.


 Exactly. Although I happen to feel negatively about Hobby Lobby and Walmart, I don't let others' positivity bother me in the slightest, and I would never argue about it. This is an excellent site overall.


----------



## volubilis (Aug 23, 2011)

countryknitwit said:


> Thank goodness we have choices of where to shop. I chose stores based on what they have to offer me; not political, social or other such things. I may not support Wal-Mart's lower wages, hobby lobbies owners religious convictions, personality of some owners of small businesses, produce imported, etc. Not taking a position on any of them. Nonetheless, they all serve a purpose in the community, employee people that need jobs, pay taxes, etc. I am not shopping for anything but a product, who am I do judge anyone else's business practices? Good prices, clean stores, etc mean more to me.


The best of all answers.


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

cathy73 said:


> I have loved this site so much. Learned so much and enjoy hearing about and seeing all the wonderful things made by members. I do think it has become very much like all the other social media platforms . I have never felt the need for everyone to know my feelings on every subject and I have trouble understanding why people feel the need to be negative. I am using this site less and less. I try to avoid controversial posts, but it makes me tired to have to do that. Knitting Paradise was one of the places I went to to escape all the ugliness in the world and enjoy reading and sharing about knitting and crochet. I liked the general section too, hearing about people's families and helping each other with problems, but rants against goverment and businesses and Christians and general nastiness is disheartening.


 I am puzzled. I have never seen any rants against Christians on this site.


----------



## lawstevens (Jun 25, 2017)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


Political opinions, no matter the reason has NO place in KP. None of us should be subjected to political opinions. Period.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> Thank you. You have said this better than I could have. Hobby Lobby is owned by Christians who are following their beliefs, one of which is being closed on Sunday. If a person wants to shop for craft supplies on Sunday, there are other stores that are open. Christians are just following what the Bible teaches them to do in following their own faith.


I think you are mistaken. I have not read all of the 12 pages (so far) of comments in this thread, yet, but I hope most Christians are not taught to steal and smuggle.... maybe only rich ones? How in the world is this following their "Christian" beliefs. They are crooks, plain and simple.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/05/hobby-lobby-to-pay-3m-to-settle-claim-it-illicitly-imported-iraqi-artifacts.html


----------



## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

lawstevens said:


> Political opinions, no matter the reason has NO place in KP. None of us should be subjected to political opinions. Period.


An opinion is just that-an opinion. In real life, we are subjected to political opinions every day. We can ignore or debate. I take it that you've never visited The Attic or the PWF.


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

SAMkewel said:


> I spend most of my free time on KP. If I had to hop, skip, and jump to other sites every time I wanted to say something to someone, many of whom are my friends, I'd be very unhappy. I can't take my friends with me, I can't have a well-rounded life if I can discuss only one subject here, and I have never heard of an exclusively knitting/crocheting site anywhere to which I can refer anyone, nor can I afford to start my own forum and run it 24/7. PM's limit the conversation to interacting with one other person; I want to interact with all of those who are interested in any given topic. I don't see why those who don't like a topic feel that one or two clicks to get away from/unwatch a topic is unreasonable.
> 
> I've been pretty much housebound for the past 18 months, so I don't have the option of going out into the local community to interact. This forum has been a lifesaver for me in dealing with my situation.
> 
> I continue to believe that Admin, who earns his livelihood with his forums, would not have set this forum up the way he has unless he wanted it to be more all-inclusive, and I also believe he knew he couldn't please everyone 100% regardless of what he does. These are just things to think about.....


 :sm24:


----------



## lawstevens (Jun 25, 2017)

John's old lady said:


> An opinion is just that-an opinion. In real life, we are subjected to political opinions every day. We can ignore or debate. I take it that you've never visited The Attic or the PWF.


Nope. I come to KP for knitting and crochet. And to see the wonderful creations of the members. If I want political crap I go to Twitter.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


 :sm24:


----------



## Knitting in the Rockys (Aug 17, 2015)

I choose not to shop at this particular retailer for a variety of reasons, though I don't expect anyone to agree with me. Though I also do not attempt to dissuade anyone from shopping there. My reasons are neither political or religious, in nature. Personal choice for personal reasons.


----------



## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

I really don't see anything wrong with a company not wanting to pay for people's recreational activities...But, I'm only there for the yarn. You can't please everyone all the time.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

lawstevens said:


> Political opinions, no matter the reason has NO place in KP. None of us should be subjected to political opinions. Period.


and that is your opinion....


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

If the subject of a posting is "Hobby Lobby," perhaps it's best to just avoid reading it.

Hazel


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> If Hobby Lobby was just simply owned by a family who is of a certain faith, I would shop there. It's their pounding that faith into everything from their employees by denying them certain types of birth control, it's by the subliminal Christian music they play on a loop in their stores, it's the influence they are pounding into the PUBLIC school system of Oklahoma, it's the religion-based Supreme court decision that factors into all of our lives and the latest thing is the theft of artifacts from Iraq (a country we annihilated for false reasons), lying about how and why they did it. I think this is important to bring up in a knitting forum, no matter how nice we wish things would be. I, for one, do not want the little money I have to go to greedy, morally inept, unscrupulous businesses.


Well said. :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

K2P2 knitter said:


> This is what the original poster and others were talking about. Someone chiming in and posting derogatory things. That seems to be what you do best now isn't it. Can you please go back to the Solarium??


Knittingthyme did not say anything wrong....I personally happen to agree with both her posts.......I hate the way sockittome pushes his agenda on everyone.....


----------



## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

I am so sorry that you feel like you can't ask a question because of a rude reply. Shame on whoever did that. I was taught that there are no dumb questions and each should deserve a polite response.



stitcheswarden10 said:


> I find many comments to be judgemental but at the same time I have enjoyed the insights people give to questions asked. I myself have stopped asking questions. I asked three and two were answered in what I felt were rude and thoughtless.....so I quit asking and continue reading the many informative answers from others.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

AuntieLoof said:


> I am puzzled. I have never seen any rants against Christians on this site.


There has been heavy proselytizing in the Attic numerous times. The rants were not about Christianity per se, but about the intense preaching and attempts at conversion of many Christians and non-Christians to those individuals' particular version of it. Repeated polite requests to refrain from doing that failed and it became quite nasty (both ways) at times. It has since stopped for the most part.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I really don't see anything wrong with a company not wanting to pay for people's recreational activities...But, I'm only there for the yarn. You can't please everyone all the time.


Recreational being birth control?
Why then do they pay for Viagra, etc., for men?
Just asking.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

hildy3 said:


> Okay!! I have read all the posts! Phew! My only question is why the subject always turns to Hobby Lobby? Has anyone checked how many other stores close on Sunday? Do any of you remember growing up in the era when stores closed at 6 pm daily and were never open on on Sunday?? It was to attend church and a family day. Daddy always took us for a long car ride Sunday...Mom and Dad and 3 kids! He always managed to need gas, so he stopped at the "filling station" and we always got "funny books" from the owner....oh..those were the days!


Go back and read the very FIRST post by the OP.... HL is in her, or his, post right off the bat. Questions if KP is becoming "agendas".... and brings up an "agenda" right away. Another stirrer??


----------



## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

hildy3 said:


> Okay!! I have read all the posts! Phew! My only question is why the subject always turns to Hobby Lobby? Has anyone checked how many other stores close on Sunday? Do any of you remember growing up in the era when stores closed at 6 pm daily and were never open on on Sunday?? It was to attend church and a family day. Daddy always took us for a long car ride Sunday...Mom and Dad and 3 kids! He always managed to need gas, so he stopped at the "filling station" and we always got "funny books" from the owner....oh..those were the days!


Thank You Hildy3.......I have childhood memories of the Sunday blue laws also.
I; also read all the posts and are you going to judge Walmart as Hobby Lobby because Walmart never used to offer insurance and kept their employees wages low so their employees got food stamps and medi-cal? All businesses have skeletons and I am sure we will find something wrong with just about all businesses.......I could go down a list but I personally am not that judgemental......

give it up......let's all be adults!


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

whale watcher said:


> Knittingthyme did not say anything wrong....I personally happen to agree with both her posts.......I hate the way sockittome pushes his agenda on everyone.....


Now I'm puzzled. This forum began seven years ago. I have been a member for all but the first two months. Sockit2me does not appear to me to have any particular agenda and I don't miss much whether I comment or not. What agenda are you referring to?


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

Knitting Thyme, just curious: why does your avatar show a child having a tantrum? What is your message?

~Confused


----------



## jenlsch (Nov 17, 2017)

I would prefer this site be about knitting and crocheting and no politics and bashing businesses. We all aren’t going to ageee . So why bring it up except to cause conflict.


----------



## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

godsbellybutton said:


> Ladies (and gentlemen),
> 
> I have spent my adult life coming to grips with the fact that many individuals and institutions do not approve of me, and some even hate me, because of who and what I am.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU.....! Well said.....


----------



## marciawm (Jun 2, 2015)

If I see the heading and it is not something I think I might be interested in, I just don't read it. Don't leave, you'll always fond something of interest.


----------



## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

I'm with you Gettysburg. lately I've felt the same as you.


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

whale watcher said:


> Knittingthyme did not say anything wrong....I personally happen to agree with both her posts.......I hate the way sockittome pushes his agenda on everyone.....


Hate is a very strong word . I personally do not feel that Sockitome was pushing any agenda with his comment. He has helped so many of us and brought allot of experience with his projects to this group .


----------



## rosebud737 (Jan 15, 2018)

Consider the times we now live in. That's why knitting is like therapy. ☺


----------



## JMBeals (Nov 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> If their health insurance prohibits all forms of birth control, I would infer that Hobby Lobby inflicts their beliefs on their employees. IMHO


Their health insurance includes forms of birth control, but not everything now on the market.


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

rosebud737 said:


> Consider the times we now live in. That's why knitting is like therapy. ☺


I So Agree!!!

:sm24:


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> If Hobby Lobby was just simply owned by a family who is of a certain faith, I would shop there. It's their pounding that faith into everything from their employees by denying them certain types of birth control, it's by the subliminal Christian music they play on a loop in their stores, it's the influence they are pounding into the PUBLIC school system of Oklahoma, it's the religion-based Supreme court decision that factors into all of our lives and the latest thing is the theft of artifacts from Iraq (a country we annihilated for false reasons), lying about how and why they did it. I think this is important to bring up in a knitting forum, no matter how nice we wish things would be. I, for one, do not want the little money I have to go to greedy, morally inept, unscrupulous businesses.


Exactly.


----------



## dmme (Oct 2, 2017)

One of the key rules of conversation is to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. I identified with the posting about KP being a lifeline in 18 months of being housebound because I am in a similar situation. I have been knitting for 40 years and still learn something almost every day. I love the funnies people post -- sometimes it is the only laugh I get in the day. I enjoy reading about and seeing pictures of life in other countries. I would love to travel and now this is my only means. KP is like a dear friend who drops in for coffee with me every morning. We may not agree on everything, but I do enjoy the company.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

dmme said:


> One of the key rules of conversation is to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. I identified with the posting about KP being a lifeline in 18 months of being housebound because I am in a similar situation. I have been knitting for 40 years and still learn something almost every day. I love the funnies people post -- sometimes it is the only laugh I get in the day. I enjoy reading about and seeing pictures of life in other countries. I would love to travel and now this is my only means. KP is like a dear friend who drops in for coffee with me every morning. We may not agree on everything, but I do enjoy the company.


We have a lot in common, even to how long we have been knitting (off and on in my case). I agree with all you've posted ;~D. I did not see the 18 months of being housebound coming, but I deal with it. I'm not sure I could without KP.


----------



## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Recreational being birth control?
> Why then do they pay for Viagra, etc., for men?
> Just asking.


They do?? IMO that shouldn't be covered either. Keep the p----- in the pants, if you can't afford to pay.


----------



## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

lawstevens said:


> Political opinions, no matter the reason has NO place in KP. None of us should be subjected to political opinions. Period.


The owner of this internet forum also owns other forums. One of them I believe is a photography discussion forum. They are a source of income from the advertisers who pay to have their products featured here.

We pay nothing to join and participate. The owner has chosen to open many topic areas here for the members to enjoy. He and only he chooses what is allowed.

Just use the parts of the forum in which you are interested and ignore the others. I subscribe to only five topics otherwise, each day there would be far too many "Newest Topics" for me to read.

Please remember--he pays the rent and we are allowed to post here for free.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

LizR said:


> The owner of this internet forum also owns other forums. One of them I believe is a photography discussion forum. They are a source of income from the advertisers who pay to have their products featured here.
> 
> We pay nothing to join and participate. The owner has chosen to open many topic areas here for the members to enjoy. He and only he chooses what is allowed.
> 
> ...


Exactly right!


----------



## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

Ok so,you don’t want to know how difficult shopping and buying at Hobby Lobby can be? It’s big, has tons of stuff and is fun to shop in,but In fact I don’t shop there anymore because of those problems.


----------



## JoanDL (Aug 26, 2013)

I see there are several replies. I feel as you do, there are plenty of places and other sites for people to vent their political comments. None of that belongs here. This site is entitled "knitting paradise." Same goes for nasty comments. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything. I love to see the pictures of other people's work and I get inspiration and encouragement to try new things. Help is always offered generously. I would like to see admin delete The Attic section entirely. It has no place here.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

morningstar said:


> The insurance offered to employees by Hobby Lobby will not pay for birth control for the women but does pay for Viagra and other erectile dysfunction meds for the men. Some who refuse to shop there do so in support of the women employees who are subjected to these policies.


Hobby Lobby pays for 17 different kinds of birth control for women. That is a huge selection. The only few they won't pay for are the ones that could cause an abortion which is totally against their faith.


----------



## DebHow78 (Nov 11, 2014)

I hope you don't choose to leave just because some people feel too free to share their opinions. Everyone has their favorites stores or websites and their reasons why. I love hearing from people who are so pleased with a place they purchased from.

Btw, I was just at HL today, shopping in their yarn aisle. ????


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> Hobby Lobby pays for 17 different kinds of birth control for women. That is a huge selection. The only few they won't pay for are the ones that could cause an abortion which is totally against their faith.


And what 17 kinds is that, please?


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> Hobby Lobby pays for 17 different kinds of birth control for women. That is a huge selection. The only few they won't pay for are the ones that could cause an abortion which is totally against their faith.


That says it all "against their faith" not necessarily the employees faith. As far as not working there that is kind of a misnomer because in some areas Hobby Lobby is a major employer.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

imalulu said:


> I think you are mistaken. I have not read all of the 12 pages (so far) of comments in this thread, yet, but I hope most Christians are not taught to steal and smuggle.... maybe only rich ones? How in the world is this following their "Christian" beliefs. They are crooks, plain and simple.
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/05/hobby-lobby-to-pay-3m-to-settle-claim-it-illicitly-imported-iraqi-artifacts.html


You are absolutely right and I posted on this same topic of the artifacts elsewhere, so I am not going to repeat everything I said in that post. Was Hobby Lobby wrong to obtain artifacts for a museum and not for monetary gain in this manner? Absolutely, they were wrong and they admit it. We Christians learn from our mistakes and all are sinners. As Jesus said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Those who repent will be forgiven. Have you ever done something you were not proud of doing? Were you forgiven for your transgression? I have been a Christian my entire life of 75 years and have certainly done some things that I should not have done. I am so glad that forgiveness is a big part of our religion.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> Our local Hobby Lobby (haven't been there in the past eight years) had a prominent sign in the entryway stating that they don't do business on Sundays because of their religious practices. Actually, they continue taking orders on their website on Sundays, which some try to tell me is not doing business because they don't fill the orders until Monday. They do, however, accept payment on Sundays, so that's doing business in my opinion. How many other craft stores prominently post statements of Christian faith? How many other craft store owners are illegally doing business in religious artifacts for their new religious museum (caught by Customs for the second time, seriously fined the first time)? These are examples of being different from standard business practices. If they were any religion other than self-proclaimed Christians, I imagine there would be quite an uproar over their practices.


The payment received on Sunday does not get processed until the employees are back to work on Monday so they actually don't get paid until Monday. As far as the religious artifacts go, there was only one incident that was divided into two different legal processing claims. You can google it for the accurate information.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> You are absolutely right and I posted on this same topic of the artifacts elsewhere, so I am not going to repeat everything I said in that post. Was Hobby Lobby wrong to obtain artifacts for a museum and not for monetary gain in this manner? Absolutely, they were wrong and they admit it. We Christians learn from our mistakes and all are sinners. As Jesus said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Those who repent will be forgiven. Have you ever done something you were not proud of doing? Were you forgiven for your transgression? I have been a Christian my entire life of 75 years and have certainly done some things that I should not have done. I am so glad that forgiveness is a big part of our religion.


That is the part of your religion I have a problem with. I am by no means saying that you do this! Many people go to church on Sunday asking to be forgiven then by Monday they are back to doing the same thing they just asked forgiveness for yesterday. I once worked with a girl who did some very questionable things like giving wrong information to a new employee causing that person to get fired. When someone asked her about it her comment was "I go to church on Sunday ask to be forgiven so no problem. That is how religion works". I have seen this behavior numerous times. I am by no means a angle but I no longer identify with any religion.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

imalulu said:


> And what 17 kinds is that, please?


I don't know the names of all of them since there are so many. You can google it to find out the answer.


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

knittingthyme said:


> Ask The Brat!


Excuse me? What brat? I thought it was meant to be a self-portrait? You are not making yourself clear. :sm26:


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

K2P2 knitter said:


> That is the part of your religion I have a problem with. I am by no means saying that you do this! Many people go to church on Sunday asking to be forgiven then by Monday they are back to doing the same thing they just asked forgiveness for yesterday. I once worked with a girl who did some very questionable things like giving wrong information to a new employee causing that person to get fired. When someone asked her about it her comment was "I go to church on Sunday ask to be forgiven so no problem. That is how religion works". I have seen this behavior numerous times. I am by no means a angle but I no longer identify with any religion.


The Christians you are talking about apparently didn't read in the Bible where Jesus said to "go and sin no more." Those people are totally wrong. I equate what you have said with the Mafia people who would do murder and then go to church and think they were forgiven because a priest told them they were. Then they would go out and keep killing people and steeling and other terrible crimes. Those people are not truly repenitant. In my opinion, they are not forgiven. There are good people and bad people in all religions. It is a shame when people judge a religion by the bad people who don't have a clue how they are supposed to follow their faith. Good people do sin, but if they are truly repentent and then change their ways, they are the ones who are forgiven.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

K2P2 knitter said:


> That says it all "against their faith" not necessarily the employees faith. As far as not working there that is kind of a misnomer because in some areas Hobby Lobby is a major employer.


The employees can be of any faith. They don't have to be Christian to work there. They do have a choice of birth control that is paid for by Hobby Lobby. If they want something else, then they can pay for it themselves. Hobby Lobby doesn't tell them they can't choose something else. Hobby Lobby is following their own faith in not providing something that is against it.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

wolfey9 said:


> Hobby Lobby has made themselves political by wanting to incorporate and yet maintain their political preferences. It has an impact on female society with its' actions. Any time that it is mentioned, the topic comes to peoples' minds.
> 
> Other craft stores bring up positive and negative experiences which we share. If you bring up HL, you bring up this experience as well. I personally had forgotten about the anti-Semitic comments.
> 
> ...


Don't you mean religious preferences and not political. They are Christians and following Christian teachings (not political). Also, please google Hobby Lobby Anti-Semitic comments and see that the Christian owners did not make anti-semitic comments. The whole anti-semitic inaccuracy started when a customer wanted to purchase something that embraced their Jewish faith. It was one employee in one store who made a bad comment and it went viral. I am a Christian and Christians love the Jews. So, the inaccuracy of the Anti-Semitic posting really rubs me the wrong way.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> You are absolutely right and I posted on this same topic of the artifacts elsewhere, so I am not going to repeat everything I said in that post. Was Hobby Lobby wrong to obtain artifacts for a museum and not for monetary gain in this manner? Absolutely, they were wrong and they admit it. We Christians learn from our mistakes and all are sinners. As Jesus said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Those who repent will be forgiven. Have you ever done something you were not proud of doing? Were you forgiven for your transgression? I have been a Christian my entire life of 75 years and have certainly done some things that I should not have done. I am so glad that forgiveness is a big part of our religion.


First, "obtain artifacts for a museum and not for monetary gain in this manner"
1. IMO, the museum is a money making venture
2. realizing a day, a week, a month or years after you did something that it was a mistake is one thing, but to purposely and fraudulently mislabel antiquities just because you WANT them is a crime, not a mistake, again, IMO.

Second, repent, forgiven (by ?), transgressions.... foreign words to me. Fortunately my parents were smart enough to keep us away from all that.


----------



## carriemae (Aug 28, 2012)

Do y'all realize how much knitting you could accomplish instead of participating in these pointless arguments. No one's mind will be changed.


----------



## ivyrain (Sep 23, 2011)

Viagra is a medicine to treat a medical condition. Birth control options are a choice- not a treatment for a medical affliction


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

ivyrain said:


> Viagra is a medicine to treat a medical condition. Birth control options are a choice- not a treatment for a medical affliction


 :sm25:


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

ivyrain wrote: Viagra is a medicine to treat a medical condition. Birth control options are a choice- not a treatment for a medical affliction.

knittingthyme wrote: Good point! 

Precisely....Viagra is for a good solid point.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Ah yes, the old Nancy Reagan, "just say no".
Didn't work then, won't work now, never worked.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> I don't think women are looking for a good "solid point" as much as its "firmness"! A good point could be painful.
> 
> Perhaps a "good point" is your fetish?
> 
> But Viagra is for a medical condition and birth control is as easy as crossing a woman's legs!


Oh my freaking god...it was a joke.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> (I see you just changed your comment to "solid point")


NO, I DID NOT.


----------



## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

knittingthyme said:


> You're right, jokes on you!


What are you even talking about? on me?


----------



## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

godsbellybutton said:


> Ladies (and gentlemen),
> 
> I have spent my adult life coming to grips with the fact that many individuals and institutions do not approve of me, and some even hate me, because of who and what I am.
> 
> ...


I'm with you kid. I like your attitude.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

JoanDL said:


> I see there are several replies. I feel as you do, there are plenty of places and other sites for people to vent their political comments. None of that belongs here. This site is entitled "knitting paradise." Same goes for nasty comments. If you can't say anything nice don't say anything. I love to see the pictures of other people's work and I get inspiration and encouragement to try new things. Help is always offered generously. I would like to see admin delete The Attic section entirely. It has no place here.


Apparently Admin differs with you, probably because it's profitable. The more "hits" he gets on this forum, the more his advertisers pay and the more apt this forum is to stay free. I suspect that if enough people were willing to pay for the use of the forum, the more willing he would be to get rid of the Attic, which I understand he started in order to make happier those who didn't want to see a steady stream of politics/religion on all sections. I further suspect that if that happened, there would be quite an exodus and much harder to stay in business. Reality does demand sacrifices and compromises.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> You are absolutely right and I posted on this same topic of the artifacts elsewhere, so I am not going to repeat everything I said in that post. Was Hobby Lobby wrong to obtain artifacts for a museum and not for monetary gain in this manner? Absolutely, they were wrong and they admit it. We Christians learn from our mistakes and all are sinners. As Jesus said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone." Those who repent will be forgiven. Have you ever done something you were not proud of doing? Were you forgiven for your transgression? I have been a Christian my entire life of 75 years and have certainly done some things that I should not have done. I am so glad that forgiveness is a big part of our religion.


I can understand trying to smuggle artifacts and getting caught once. Twice is more than I'm willing to overlook. It's also a fact that not everyone is religious; those who are should not expect special treatment when it comes to business or the law. So far, Christianity is not the law in the US, but a choice among many choices. Since this is not a church, preaching any religion here is probably not appropriate, yet people do it and get away with it. I wonder why that is..... Perhaps those of us who are not religious but tolerate some religion on a knitting/crocheting forum should have equal consideration when we also talk about things other than knitting/crocheting?


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> The payment received on Sunday does not get processed until the employees are back to work on Monday so they actually don't get paid until Monday. As far as the religious artifacts go, there was only one incident that was divided into two different legal processing claims. You can google it for the accurate information.


It sounds as if you are denying they make more money by keeping their website open on Sundays. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep it open. It's really easy to shut down computers for a day.....


----------



## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

sunnygal said:


> What do you mean by the attic?


It is a section created for the sole purpose for people to rage, vent, state an opinion that may have lots of recourse, you can call names, bully, argue, demean, inform , chat aimiably on some of the postings, learn whom is left and whom is right politically, whom hates who etc. etc. etc. 
Originally , some posts were so negative they were keeping stitching info seekers away, as I understand it, giving KP a bad name and so you could sign up or not, participate or not , when those topics were sent to the Attic. In general, there is a controversial vein there on KP , but you don't have to participate in that section.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> It is a section created for the sole purpose for people to rage, vent, state an opinion that may have lots of recourse, you can call names, bully, argue, demean, inform , chat aimiably on some of the postings, learn whom is left and whom is right politically, whom hates who etc. etc. etc.
> Originally , some posts were so negative they were keeping stitching info seekers away, as I understand it, giving KP a bad name and so you could sign up or not, participate or not , when those topics were sent to the Attic. In general, there is a controversial vein there on KP , but you don't have to participate in that section.


I wonder why you see it so much more darkly than I do. Maybe I'm just tired tonight.....


----------



## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

dmme said:


> One of the key rules of conversation is to be able to disagree without being disagreeable. I identified with the posting about KP being a lifeline in 18 months of being housebound because I am in a similar situation. I have been knitting for 40 years and still learn something almost every day. I love the funnies people post -- sometimes it is the only laugh I get in the day. I enjoy reading about and seeing pictures of life in other countries. I would love to travel and now this is my only means. KP is like a dear friend who drops in for coffee with me every morning. We may not agree on everything, but I do enjoy the company.


You could not have said this any nicer.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> It sounds as if you are denying they make more money by keeping their website open on Sundays. If they didn't, they wouldn't keep it open. It's really easy to shut down computers for a day.....


They probably keep it on for the convenience of their customers.


----------



## dmme (Oct 2, 2017)

I had not heard of Solarium or the Attic before and so I went to my profile and signed up. It was so nice to come back to KP. The people on those forums don't seek or provide understanding; they don't even provide rational argument. Some are just plain rude. The courtesy and caring of KP contributors is like a balm on burned skin after that experience. Let's continue to be friends and like friends, look at each other's viewpoint and if necessary agree to disagree and move on. Friends like this are well worth getting up an hour early to have coffee with.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thinking is the same as yours, Mindy.



MindyT said:


> One doesn't need to be a polititian to have a valid opinion based on fact-based research. This is a GREAT forum for political issues. If it is offensive, ignore and move on.
> I believe it has already been pointed out that their Christian beliefs have them witholding paying for birth control for Female employees (wonder if Viagra is supplied to Males) and the company and spokespersons have put forth anti-semitic drivel. (Google it).
> So, I submit, they are not practicing Christian beliefs as Jesus was a Jew.
> I'm with Damemary!
> Open minds, fact-based research, science based facts, can't go wrong with good research.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hobby Lobby opened the discussion by publicizing their 'beliefs.



faigiezipper said:


> People post here when they are happy or unhappy about shopping experiences at yarn shops and the quality of yarn. This is no different. If it upsets you, don't read it. I think this is definitely the place for it. We are not complaining about a drug store or a hair dresser, we are complaining about a place that sells YARN. If you follow their beliefs, then shop there. I think people have a right to not shop there if they do not think the company treats everyone fairly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't it bother you that they have been found to illegally import protected artifacts from the Middle East?



susieM said:


> If I thought HL used their profits for immoral purposes, I would not shop there. However, it doesnt bother me that a religious company displays their beliefs. I suppose they do alot of good with their money.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Just one question. 

Why is this thread in Main. It should be either in General Chit Chat (non knitting topics) or the Attic.

I think it should be moved from Main. It is not related to knitting or crochet.


Main
This is where we talk about anything related to knitting or crochet.


General Chit-Chat (non-knitting talk)
A place to talk about anything (discussions and pictures not related to knitting).


The Attic
Where we put stuff we don't want our guests to see. Complaints and rants about topics moved to The Attic will also be moved to The Attic.


----------



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

Evie RM said:


> The Christians you are talking about apparently didn't read in the Bible where Jesus said to "go and sin no more." Those people are totally wrong. I equate what you have said with the Mafia people who would do murder and then go to church and think they were forgiven because a priest told them they were. Then they would go out and keep killing people and steeling and other terrible crimes. Those people are not truly repenitant. In my opinion, they are not forgiven. There are good people and bad people in all religions. It is a shame when people judge a religion by the bad people who don't have a clue how they are supposed to follow their faith. Good people do sin, but if they are truly repentent and then change their ways, they are the ones who are forgiven.


 :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

Knitted by Nan said:


> Just one question.
> 
> Why is this thread in Main. It should be either in General Chit Chat (non knitting topics) or the Attic.
> 
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

Knitted by Nan said:


> Just one question.
> 
> Why is this thread in Main.  It should be either in General Chit Chat (non knitting topics) or the Attic.
> 
> ...


I have been wondering about it being in the wrong section also. ADMIN used to quickly move non knitting/crochet topics in the past.


----------



## mairmie (Jun 16, 2011)

ChasingRainbows said:


> People are entitled to their opinions. You'll probably find as many posts from people who say they'll never shop at Walmart, or Joann's, or Michaels, or Target, or any other store.


On of my friends often says" Agree to disagree without being disagreeable"
Good quote worth all of us remembering...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Vickie P said:


> I choose what posts I read. If I don't like the opinions being offered I stop reading and move on. No one is making me read anything here.


You are correct. I have never understood why someone will complain about a topic saying it shouldn't be discussed on a knitting forum and then the next page there they are commenting again still complaining about the topic. My goodness, why stress yourself about something that is out of your control. You can not tell other people what to do, what to say or what to think so I don't understand why some people continue to try. We are a very diverse group of people with many different opinions and everyone thinking alike will never happen and I think that is a good thing.


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


I agree with you. If people are hesitant to read a post labeled "Hobby Lobby," then they don't have to read it. There are all sorts of topics I ignore, and I'm sure other folks ignore other topics, too. Anything that has to do with knitting, crocheting, spinning, weaving, and other pursuits seems like a legitimate topic to me.

You're not pushing an agenda; you're simply speaking about Hobby Lobby in a neutral way. Yes, HL does have a religious agenda, and that may bother some folks, while it may not bother others. Just as we discuss whether people prefer straight needles or circular needles, I think it's more than fair to discuss Hobby Lobby--or your local yarn store or Joann's or WalMart or a yarn store on the web.

Anyway, just my $.02.

Hazel


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> So true. Few places have such a obvious religious agenda, therefore, on a knitting forum it is absolutely proper to comment. I typically stay away from anything that has their name in it as it is totally against my way of thinking.


I agree. I believe this country is in a world of hurt at the moment. Maybe things wouldn't have gone so off the track if more people had become involved and informed instead of refusing to discuss anything political and refusing to vote for whatever reason. Being informed is one of the most important things we can do as citizens whether you do it on a knitting site or on the news or the newspaper. Standing by a certain party without knowing what they actually stand for is one of the worst things a person can do. We must put country before party and get informed. I learn something every day from this forum sometimes it is political and sometimes it is not, but it is always something I didn't know the day before.


----------



## maureen0614 (Dec 16, 2012)

Well said Hazel!


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

maureen0614 said:


> Well said Hazel!


Thank you much! I appreciate it.

Hazel


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ivyrain said:


> Viagra is a medicine to treat a medical condition. Birth control options are a choice- not a treatment for a medical affliction


You are 100% wrong, wrong, wrong. The pill is prescribed for many women for more than one medical condition such as endometriosis and polycystic ovarian syndrome and it lowers the risk of some cancers.


----------



## SusieSch (Apr 28, 2013)

You opened with a statement about members venting their own agenda against Hobby Lobby.



gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


However, aren't you doing just that same thing and venting pro Hobby Lobby? You know that this has been a hot button in the past. I can't believe you didn't know that you get a lot of responses back.

Sockit2me response was polite and reasonable.



sockit2me said:


> Other craft stores do not have a religious agenda, Hobby Lobby does. That creates a legitimate reason to question and debate their business practices. For some it becomes a moral or political issue whether or not to buy yarn from this company....so it is a valid discussion in a knitting forum.


Apparently, you are asking us to ignore the illegal business practices ($3M settlement for Iraqi artifact smuggling) and their refusal to include contraceptive in their health plan (Supreme Court case) and simply comment on the quality of the yarn, service or price.

Well, let me comment on Hobby Lobby's service.

At the highest level, by pursuing their single-minded "Christian Evangelical" agenda, they are doing a disservice to the country, their customers, and their employees. The have a pattern of being disrespectful to other religions and religious practices.

On a personal level, I've been in Hobby Lobby twice with my mother. As a non-Christian, I found the general atmosphere off putting. Every one of their greeting cards has Bible quote and there was a whole aisle with nothing but crosses. I'm not saying that they don't have a right to sell these things. Nor am I saying that they should be forced to sell items representing other religions. But, I am saying that I won't shop there any more than I would shop at a Christian book and artifact store. Just not my thing.

There are plenty of lovely stores run by respectful and honest people where I can buy my yarn.


----------



## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree with you :sm24:


----------



## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree. I believe this country is in a world of hurt at the moment. Maybe things wouldn't have gone so off the track if more people had become involved and informed instead of refusing to discuss anything political and refusing to vote for whatever reason. Being informed is one of the most important things we can do as citizens whether you do it on a knitting site or on the news or the newspaper. Standing by a certain party without knowing what they actually stand for is one of the worst things a person can do. We must put country before party and get informed. I learn something every day from this forum sometimes it is political and sometimes it is not, but it is always something I didn't know the day before.


I agree with you. We need to be informed,and we won't be if we shut our eyes to what we don't want to see. Wake up! :sm24:


----------



## Firstsoprano (Dec 6, 2014)

SusieSch said:


> You opened with a statement about members venting their own agenda against Hobby Lobby.
> 
> Apparently, you are asking us to ignore the illegal business practices ($3M settlement for Iraqi artifact smuggling) and their refusal to include contraceptive in their health plan (Supreme Court case) and simply comment on the quality of the yarn, service or price.
> 
> ...


You are right. There are many stores from which to choose that do not push their views on their customers.


----------



## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

SusieSch said:


> You opened with a statement about members venting their own agenda against Hobby Lobby.
> 
> Apparently, you are asking us to ignore the illegal business practices ($3M settlement for Iraqi artifact smuggling) and their refusal to include contraceptive in their health plan (Supreme Court case) and simply comment on the quality of the yarn, service or price.
> 
> ...


Very well put. :sm24:


----------



## Ellemck (Mar 7, 2011)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


It might be better for you to take a break from KP.


----------



## Pittgirl (Jan 6, 2017)

NJG said:


> You are 100% wrong, wrong, wrong. The pill is prescribed for many women for more than one medical condition such as endometriosis and polycystic ovarian syndrome and it lowers the risk of some cancers.


This is correct, birth control pills are used for other medical conditions. Painful periods, irregular periods, PCOS and endometriosis to name a few.


----------



## Shirley Ray (Mar 3, 2011)

Although it has become hard to believe sometimes, in this country we are entitled to FREE SPEECH. And there are no laws making us read something or refusing us the right to use the delete button. Use it if you don't want to read certain topics.


----------



## KnitsEtcByJT (Nov 12, 2017)

Cookiecat said:


> The store owners have religious BELIEFS. An agenda would be a program of proselytizing or requiring acceptance of some religious practice - akin to the PC practice of demanding acceptance/endorsement of certain sexual lifestyles and beliefs about "gender". I've never read about Hobby Lobby doing that sort of thing. Have never read about their business practices being any different from standard business practices.


Totally agree. You have stated it perfectly.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> They probably keep it on for the convenience of their customers.


I have my doubts, having shopped there locally in the distant past. Customer service (or convenience) was the least of their concerns. My friends who still shop there tell me it hasn't changed over the years.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are correct. I have never understood why someone will complain about a topic saying it shouldn't be discussed on a knitting forum and then the next page there they are commenting again still complaining about the topic. My goodness, why stress yourself about something that is out of your control. You can not tell other people what to do, what to say or what to think so I don't understand why some people continue to try. We are a very diverse group of people with many different opinions and everyone thinking alike will never happen and I think that is a good thing.


I can only add, may it never change. I hate dictatorships.....


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree. I believe this country is in a world of hurt at the moment. Maybe things wouldn't have gone so off the track if more people had become involved and informed instead of refusing to discuss anything political and refusing to vote for whatever reason. Being informed is one of the most important things we can do as citizens whether you do it on a knitting site or on the news or the newspaper. Standing by a certain party without knowing what they actually stand for is one of the worst things a person can do. We must put country before party and get informed. I learn something every day from this forum sometimes it is political and sometimes it is not, but it is always something I didn't know the day before.


Many seem to be determined to try to live on Cloud 7 rather than deal with reality. I admit it takes some real effort to care about our countries and the world, but well worth it. There have been many horrors occur in the real world because no one cared enough.


----------



## KnitsEtcByJT (Nov 12, 2017)

SAMkewel said:


> I can only add, may it never change. I hate dictatorships.....


AMEN!


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> I have my doubts, having shopped there locally in the distant past. Customer service (or convenience) was the least of their concerns. My friends who still shop there tell me it hasn't changed over the years.


I have had just the reverse experience at my local Hobby Lobby store. There are quite a few employees throughout the store and they are so friendly and helpful. Very courteous to me and seem happy to be working there. They are paid almost double the national average for the minimum wage. They have pleasant working conditions. I would be happy, too, under those circumstances. I only shop at the one Hobby Lobby store that is not too far from my house, so I can't speak for other stores in other areas. It is a real pleasure to visit the one where I shop.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> I have had just the reverse experience at my local Hobby Lobby store. There are quite a few employees throughout the store and they are so friendly and helpful. Very courteous to me and seem happy to be working there. They are paid almost double the national average for the minimum wage. They have pleasant working conditions. I would be happy, too, under those circumstances. I only shop at the one Hobby Lobby store that is not too far from my house, so I can't speak for other stores in other areas. It is a real pleasure to visit the one where I shop.


It's nice to know they do a good job in other locations from the customers' perspective. What I call my local HL is actually in a much larger city in an adjoining county. I no longer travel there because I've been pretty much housebound for awhile. They are located across the highway from a large mall so they get lots of opportunity to do well, but the problem with the personnel continues according to knitting friends who shop there. I don't know why. The physical store is clean, organized, and well stocked, but the attitudes are anything from disinterest to thinly veiled hostility. I think that's the primary reason the store is not crowded, since Michael's and JoAnn, located nearby, are very busy. I really doubt that many people avoid them for some of the reasons I do.


----------



## volubilis (Aug 23, 2011)

How much longer will is this subject be discussed? Enough is enough. It is obvious that both sides will remain on their positions. Truce. Let's knit!


----------



## susieM (Dec 11, 2017)

As Mr, wonderful on shark tank says, STOP THE MADNESS!


----------



## Bibben (Oct 14, 2016)

Agree!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

volubilis said:


> How much longer will is this subject be discussed? Enough is enough. It is obvious that both sides will remain on their positions. Truce. Let's knit!


You are excused, you may go knit. However, everyone else gets to decide for themselves and they may not be ready yet. How about we let them decide for themselves when they want to stop the discussion.


----------



## SusieSch (Apr 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> I agree. I believe this country is in a world of hurt at the moment. Maybe things wouldn't have gone so off the track if more people had become involved and informed instead of refusing to discuss anything political and refusing to vote for whatever reason. Being informed is one of the most important things we can do as citizens whether you do it on a knitting site or on the news or the newspaper. Standing by a certain party without knowing what they actually stand for is one of the worst things a person can do. We must put country before party and get informed. I learn something every day from this forum sometimes it is political and sometimes it is not, but it is always something I didn't know the day before.


I couldn't agree more!


----------



## Addison.maddison (Jun 25, 2017)

Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, 573 U.S. ___ (2014)


----------



## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

NJG said:


> You are excused, you may go knit. However, everyone else gets to decide for themselves and they may not be ready yet. How about we let them decide for themselves when they want to stop the discussion.


The op could start a nice new topic about knitting instead of complaining about a discussion.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

gertysburg said:


> I sincerely hope not. I enjoy the site very much, but anytime someone says something positive about hobby lobby it is attacked. No forcing anyone to shop there or to work there. If the comments aren't about the quality of yarn or service or price, is this really the place to vent your own agenda? After today, I really thought about simply removing myself from this site. Does anyone else share my view, or should I just leave it?


This topic belongs in a different category, GCC, The Attic, The Solarium. Main is for knitting related topics. Whining about Hobby Lobby is off-topic in Main.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

jberg said:


> Don't leave yet. There are still very many good people here who come mostly for yarn related conversations. Still a great place for inspiration and encouragement. If a topic looks like it will bother you, ignore it. Don't even check it out. just me....Happy Needling. jberg


Nicely said.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> This is essentially the same as my point of view regarding Hobby Lobby.
> 
> I have been a member of real life knitting/crochet groups. At no time has anyone ever tried to limit what was talked about there, whether in LYS's, restaurants, libraries, or someone's home. The idea of limiting the free speech of others seems like a dangerous practice. When I find myself in a thread that gets too unpleasant for me, I simply move on. I may or may not state my opinion as I go, but I'm responsible for my own comfort level and I am the only one with any control over my environment, online or off. The idea of joining a worldwide forum, then demanding that others change to suit my particular tastes, seems unrealistic and unfair to me. If I don't like some part of it, I avoid that part. I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater, either, so I pick and choose here just as I do elsewhere.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

ivyrain said:


> Viagra is a medicine to treat a medical condition. Birth control options are a choice- not a treatment for a medical affliction


Perhaps you could share your insight with the rest of us.

Viagra is a vasodilator, used to treat high blood pressure. Erectile dysfunction is an off-label use. There are other meds used to treat high blood pressure, so why is Viagra still prescribed ?

Birth control options (which options ?) are most certainly a medical treatment. There is no 'one size fits all' in medical treatment.

Do you mean oral contraceptives? Those are hormones. I use hormones for a medical situation, but not as a contraceptive. Since I don't derive sexual pleasure as the result of using these, are they allowed, in your estimation?

Insulin is a hormone. Should that be off the table as well ?

Endometriosis (Google it) is a medical condition. Hormones are used to treat it. Should we pretend it does not exist because everyone does not suffer from this painful condition ?

Regarding ectopic pregnancies, how long can a fetus grow in a fallopian tube or elsewhere in the abdomen ? A therapeutic abortion is the normal treatment, but the sanctified brethren at HL believe in the sanctity of life, regardless of viability or location.


----------



## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

SusieSch said:


> You opened with a statement about members venting their own agenda against Hobby Lobby.
> 
> Apparently, you are asking us to ignore the illegal business practices ($3M settlement for Iraqi artifact smuggling) and their refusal to include contraceptive in their health plan (Supreme Court case) and simply comment on the quality of the yarn, service or price.
> 
> ...


Well said. That place is a migraine trigger for me, visual, olfactory, and auditory.l


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

What still bothers me the most is why so many people want to control and tell the rest what we may discuss. All this talk about it is "time to move on." Why do you feel you have the right to do that? Why do you want to do that? Do you want someone to tell you what you have to be interested in and what you are allowed to talk about? The op complaining because she thinks we all have an agenda but why is that any different than her agenda? If the op is looking for a site where only positive things are said about HL then I don't think she will ever find that. There is no way for her to force everyone to believe as she does. If that were possible then I want a place where everyone believes as I do and I always get positive reinforcement for what I say. Impossible for me and for the op. That is not the world we live in and it never will be. This is page 19 and nothing has changed. There are still those who like HL and those who don't, the same as when we started.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

Hobby Lobby is not for everyone. Some of us have complained about the music I then store being distracting and offensive. Personally, I don’t recall ever hearing music in that particular store, but I’m sure it was there. As for me, the noise that the security sensors make in Best Buy give me a headache within minutes of entering their store, so I avoid it. There are other places to buy electronics....hundreds of other places. 

We live (well, probably the major of us) in the greatest country in the world. Every one of us (American or not) enjoy the freedom of choice. That’s not the case in every country. Under communism, there was often no choice in what you bought or “businesses” you shopped at. There was one car...the Trabant, or “Trabi” available in East Germany and there was a waiting list years long. Used cars were more expensive than new because they could be bought quickly. One brand of milk, one brand of Shoes, no choice for most things. 

But we have the freedom to have seemingly endless choices for where we shop and what we buy. Why should we waste a second thought on someplace or something that is unappealing to us, for we have endless options and surely one of those will make us happy. Why must we dwell on the unpleasant? If it were unpleasant to everyone, then they would be out of business in no time. Just because something isn’t my cup of tea doesn’t mean it’s not someone else’s, and allowing that someone to have something that makes them happy doesn’t hurt me one bit. 

We’ve got a bit of a controversy in the NFL right now. Some people are happy about the players taking a knee during our national anthem and others are not so happy. For the record, I’m in the latter group. But it’s the players’ right to do so, and I deeply value that right. So if it’s offensive to me, and it is, I can choose to not watch. Those players can kneel all they want. I have so many other choices for how to spend my time. Just, please, not on housework ????????!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DMIT Diva said:


> Hobby Lobby is not for everyone. Some of us have complained about the music I then store being distracting and offensive. Personally, I don't recall ever hearing music in that particular store, but I'm sure it was there. As for me, the noise that the security sensors make in Best Buy give me a headache within minutes of entering their store, so I avoid it. There are other places to buy electronics....hundreds of other places.
> 
> We live (well, probably the major of us) in the greatest country in the world. Every one of us (American or not) enjoy the freedom of choice. That's not the case in every country. Under communism, there was often no choice in what you bought or "businesses" you shopped at. There was one car...the Trabant, or "Trabi" available in East Germany and there was a waiting list years long. Used cars were more expensive than new because they could be bought quickly. One brand of milk, one brand of Shoes, no choice for most things.
> 
> ...


I do not wish to start an argument with you but I must agree with you when you say "We live (well, probably the major of us) in the greatest country in the world" because I live in the greatest country in the world, Australia. Australia is a wonderful place to live; just perfect one day, absolutely perfect the next day.


----------



## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

volubilis said:


> How much longer will is this subject be discussed? Enough is enough. It is obvious that both sides will remain on their positions. Truce. Let's knit!


Excuse me but who gave you the right to tell anyone want they can or can not discuss on an open forum?

Who gave you the right to tell others 'enough is enough'?

Who gave you the right to decided how long a subject might be discussed?

How rude can you get?

How dare you try to censure other people?


----------



## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

NJG said:


> What still bothers me the most is why so many people want to control and tell the rest what we may discuss. All this talk about it is "time to move on." Why do you feel you have the right to do that? Why do you want to do that? Do you want someone to tell you what you have to be interested in and what you are allowed to talk about? The op complaining because she thinks we all have an agenda but why is that any different than her agenda? If the op is looking for a site where only positive things are said about HL then I don't think she will ever find that. There is no way for her to force everyone to believe as she does. If that were possible then I want a place where everyone believes as I do and I always get positive reinforcement for what I say. Impossible for me and for the op. That is not the world we live in and it never will be. This is page 19 and nothing has changed. There are still those who like HL and those who don't, the same as when we started.


Well said on every point. The voice of reason.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

Knitted by Nan said:


> I do not wish to start an argument with you but I must agree with you when you say "We live (well, probably the major of us) in the greatest country in the world" because I live in the greatest country in the world, Australia. Australia is a wonderful place to live; just perfect one day, absolutely perfect the next day.


Well, if we're going to disagree I don't think that there is a more positive thing to disagree aboout! I haven't ever been to Australia, but would love to go someday. I just wish it wasn't so darn far away. I've traveled some as I lived in Europe for several years, and I always circle back too the fact that there are so many places to see that won't take me the better part of two days to get to. Maybe when I retire and don't have to worry about time off and unread emails and piled up work!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I prefer an open mind to a wagging finger. Thanks. Well put.



Aisles said:


> Excuse me but who gave you the right to tell anyone want they can or can not discuss on an open forum?
> 
> Who gave you the right to tell others 'enough is enough'?
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DMIT Diva said:


> Well, if we're going to disagree I don't think that there is a more positive thing to disagree aboout! I haven't ever been to Australia, but would love to go someday. I just wish it wasn't so darn far away. I've traveled some as I lived in Europe for several years, and I always circle back too the fact that there are so many places to see that won't take me the better part of two days to get to. Maybe when I retire and don't have to worry about time off and unread emails and piled up work!


Yes, we are so far away from so many parts of the world. That long aeroplane trip can be a killer, unless you can afford the luxury of business class or first class and can snuggle down in your little bed and snooze the time away. Being so far from England is why Australia was chosen as a place of exiles for the political prisoners from Ireland and the pickpockets of England. But we are unique; for generations we were a British Colony at the bottom of the world and referred to England as 'The Mother Country'. It was everybody's ambition in the 1940s and 1950s to 'travel home to the old country', even if your ancestors came from Wales and Ireland, as mine did. We now acknowledge ourselves as part of Asia, but it took a mighty struggle for some to acknowledge that we are closer, physically, to Asia than to Europe or North America. Now if we could just get the airline companies to schedule a stop over somewhere in the mid-Pacific it would make the trip down under, or from down under to the US, a lot more pleasant.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

Knitted by Nan said:


> Yes, we are so far away from so many parts of the world. That long aeroplane trip can be a killer, unless you can afford the luxury of business class or first class and can snuggle down in your little bed and snooze the time away. Being so far from England is why Australia was chosen as a place of exiles for the political prisoners from Ireland and the pickpockets of England. But we are unique; for generations we were a British Colony at the bottom of the world and referred to England as 'The Mother Country'. It was everybody's ambition in the 1940s and 1950s to 'travel home to the old country', even if your ancestors came from Wales and Ireland, as mine did. We now acknowledge ourselves as part of Asia, but it took a mighty struggle for some to acknowledge that we are closer, physically, to Asia than to Europe or North America. Now if we could just get the airline companies to schedule a stop over somewhere in the mid-Pacific it would make the trip down under, or from down under to the US, a lot more pleasant.


I am thinking a stop for rest in Hawaii would be nice. That would really be a win-win.


----------



## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

DMIT Diva said:


> I am thinking a stop for rest in Hawaii would be nice. That would really be a win-win.


After that, more 'rests' in Samoa, Tonga and Fiji. Would probably take me two weeks to get to Australia. Ah, but a wonderful two weeks.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

LizR said:


> After that, more 'rests' in Samoa, Tonga and Fiji. Would probably take me two weeks to get to Australia. Ah, but a wonderful two weeks.


I like it! I've got a few years before retirement but I hope to make more than one trip like that then! This last year in the stock markets is helping me get closer!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

LizR said:


> After that, more 'rests' in Samoa, Tonga and Fiji. Would probably take me two weeks to get to Australia. Ah, but a wonderful two weeks.


Your trip sounds wonderful, relaxing. I found the trip to Tokyo in October was exhausting. We left Perth just before 6.30 am so we had to be at the airport at 4.00 am. Thankfully the airport is less than a 15 minute drive from home. Only a six hour flight to Singapore with a two hour stop over. The flight was delayed leaving Singapore, and we did not get into Tokyo until 11.30 pm. Then a 30 minute drive to the hotel in Shinjuku via that tunnel that is over 30km long. I was exhausted, freezing cold and in pain. At one stage during that trip through that tunnel I became convinced I was dead. I believed that the plane had crashed during landing and the trip through that infernal tunnel meant I had crossed over to the fifth dimension and it was my lot to spend eternity travelling in that tunnel.

Allan Joyce of QANTAS can rabbit on all he likes about the non stop trip from Perth to London being a game changer for travel to the UK; but for him maybe, luxuriating in first class but not for the plebs stuck in economy. 19 hours spent cramped and strapped in their seats with very little leg room is torture, not fun and excitement.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

Knitted by Nan said:


> Your trip sounds wonderful, relaxing. I found the trip to Tokyo in October was exhausting. We left Perth just before 6.30 am so we had to be at the airport at 4.00 am. Thankfully the airport is less than a 15 minute drive from home. Only a six hour flight to Singapore with a two hour stop over. The flight was delayed leaving Singapore, and we did not get into Tokyo until 11.30 pm. Then a 30 minute drive to the hotel in Shinjuku via that tunnel that is over 30km long. I was exhausted, freezing cold and in pain. At one stage during that trip through that tunnel I became convinced I was dead. I believed that the plane had crashed during landing and the trip through that infernal tunnel meant I had crossed over to the fifth dimension and it was my lot to spend eternity travelling in that tunnel.
> 
> Allan Joyce of QANTAS can rabbit on all he likes about the non stop trip from Perth to London being a game changer for travel to the UK; but for him maybe, luxuriating in first class but not for the plebs stuck in economy. 19 hours spent cramped and strapped in their seats with very little leg room is torture, not fun and excitement.


Air travel just sucks, even when it's not a long flight, something invariably happens to just throw a monkey wrench into the middle of your day(s).

I hope the trip got better for you!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

DMIT Diva said:


> Air travel just sucks, even when it's not a long flight, something invariably happens to just throw a monkey wrench into the middle of your day(s).
> 
> I hope the trip got better for you!


It did, two wonderful weeks. Japan is such a wonderful country. I found the people, even teenage schoolchildren so very polite and helpful. So many people speak English, especially the young people in the various eateries. The food was always first class and so cheap. The train service excellent and always staff to assist you. Other travellers also helped if they thought you looked lost or were unsure which platform, level or trainline service you needed. My son has already booked a return trip in July. I will not go with him then. He wants to climb Mt Fuji and will be staying in the capsule hotels. Those capsule hotels are not for me, they remind me of the drawers in a morgue.


----------



## DMIT Diva (Jan 26, 2018)

Knitted by Nan said:


> It did, two wonderful weeks. Japan is such a wonderful country. I found the people, even teenage schoolchildren so very polite and helpful. So many people speak English, especially the young people in the various eateries. The food was always first class and so cheap. The train service excellent and always staff to assist you. Other travellers also helped if they thought you looked lost or were unsure which platform, level or trainline service you needed. My son has already booked a return trip in July. I will not go with him then. He wants to climb Mt Fuji and will be staying in the capsule hotels. Those capsule hotels are not for me, they remind me of the drawers in a morgue.


I'll have to check out capsule hotels, but I imagine I will be in your camp on that one. Glad you had fun. Japan would be nice to see also. I need more money and more time.


----------



## AuntieLoof (Mar 23, 2017)

Thank you! For pulling this thread back to the positive side. And viva Australia!


----------



## Kimbo58 (Jul 11, 2015)

m_azingrace said:


> Because there are so many really good folks here, willing to share their knowledge with others I just ignore the ones who just want to "stir the pot".
> Every lovely garden has a few weeds.


Well said. ????????????


----------

