# Brother 820 machine not reading the punchcards



## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

I bought an 820 knitting machine which is not reading punchcards.
I triple checked all the settings but something is not quite right with the pattern reader. The needles are not selected no matter whether the carriage is set up for fairisle, tuck, slip, lace, etc. ( and I have no trouble on my other machines).
I have two pictures of the plastic covers pulled off and wonder if anyone can point me to a link on diagnosing the issue? 

It was a rather stiff machine when I got it and I have run the carriage along the needle bed many times hoping with oil it would loosen up. The pattern lever is in the triangle position and it does advance rows. It knits a very nice stockinette. But so far that's about it:/


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## Reba1 (Feb 5, 2012)

Not sure about the 820, but with my 260 I have to take the carriage all the way to the left past the turn mark and then knit to the right to set the patterning up. Have you done that? Sorry, it's the only thing I can think of. Looks like you have the carriage set to KC and the MC button in for fairisle. Is that what you are trying to do?


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks. Yup, I have done that.

I have tried setting it up for fairisle, set for kc.
I have tried lace , set at kl.
Etc. I went through the manual and tried all the settings hoping one of the setups would select needles from the punchcard reader.


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## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

With the cover off and trying a pattern does the needle selector cam (under card reader) rotate?

If so read this thread

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-306469-1.html

A good cleaning may help - looks like it could use some TLC


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

Thank you. Yes the needle selector cam does rotate.
So I am a bit mystified because there are only so many moving parts on these.

It was an ebay purchase described as " in perfect condition" . 
I have done a lot of cleaning on it, at first nothing would move at all...but it is still full of disintegrated sponge bar junk. (I did replace the sponge bar).
Of those videos within that thread this is a great start:




Nothing looks broken, and yet no needles are selected. Weird.
Thank you for the direction

Btw: happy new year to you all.


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## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

Your observation is correct. Very few moving parts. Unless the selector went out of adjustment (unlikely) I suggest to clean a few needles and see it they select. Had your issue in the past an after checking a lot of things, A good needle cleaning worked wonders.


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## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

I also have an 820 with problems selecting the needles. My machine was very stuck also. I cleaned up many parts, but really need to take the needles out and thoroughly clean them. 

My machine will select some of the needles, some of the time, but mostly when going one way rather than both ways. 

I ran out of time to work on it but should go back to it now in the new year. 

I used the you tube video by Jack, husband of TheAnswerLady, about disassembling a brother punchcard machine. He has 2 videos that I found: The inner workings of the brother card reader, and Trouble shooting the card reader. 

Rita in Raleigh


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

The following may also help you regarding cleaning your machine.........
http://knittsings.com/how-to-take-apart-a-brother-punch-card-knitting-machine/

I might sound stupid asking this but...have you checked that the KC lever on the carriage is actually working?


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## Knitielizzie (Dec 16, 2013)

Does the drive belt that runs around the machine move? If the little nib on the back of the carriage isn't connecting with the belt and moving it, then the needles won't select. 

You also say that the carriage was hard to push when you first received it, so I'm wondering if the change knob is working and moving the cams or if it has become disconnected.


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

The nib activated by the kc switch connects. The kc button moves when switched. The drive belt runs.
The change knob: do you mean the button that locks or activates the card reader? It was not moving at all but I loosened it. The card does advance, but I think you are all right. It probably needs a deep clean and something (probably small) is disconnected. 
I am starting to wonder about the carriage though. 

Thank you


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## topotex (Feb 4, 2014)

I bought a used machine that wouldn't even advance the punch card. I used my hair dryer (on low) for a short time and it started working like a champ. When our machines aren't working, it is very frustrating! Hang in there ---


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## Knitielizzie (Dec 16, 2013)

if you suspect the carriage the I suggest you take it off and turn it upside down. press the various buttons and turn the knobs. Most things should move in pairs, so if you see one flippy bit moving and the one on the opposite side not, investigate further!

The fact that the drive belt is moving and turning the punchcard selector mechanism is a point in your favour.

Deeper inside the machine are some springs and plates that move to alter the position of the needles. These have been known to stick if the machines aren't used for a long time so that also needs to be looked into. 

As you seem prepared to dismantle your machine, I suggest you look for the service manual and or parts manual which will show you how to get further inside. They are available for download as a pdf from a number of sites that have been mentioned in other threads. You may not see your exact model, but will find something very similar.


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## llamagenny (Feb 26, 2013)

Did it come with a lace carriage? If so, try that carriage with a lace punch card and if it works, it is likely your carriage that is the problem (which was the case on a singer 360 I have).


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

llamagenny said:


> Did it come with a lace carriage? If so, try that carriage with a lace punch card and if it works, it is likely your carriage that is the problem (which was the case on a singer 360 I have).


That's a brilliant idea. :thumbup:


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

Yup, I tried the lace carriage. 
The needles selected should go to d position as the lace carriage moves across the bed, and they don't go to d position. 
It's definitely a punchcard reader issue but the carriages could use more cleaning and the point about trying all the buttons and making sure cam movements are symmetrical is a good one. I ran out and bought some silicone lubricant, maybe that will help. 
If not, I will disassemble the reader .


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## Judy Goodwin (Dec 9, 2014)

There is a how to fix that would help on the answer lady's site. Jack takes apart a punch card machine and gets it selecting again. The problem is in the parts under the Orange turn piece. The cam(?) there is really a top and bottom. Older machines seem to get stuck so the pieces move together. If you can get them to loosen up and move seperatly, Your machine should start to pattern again.


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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

Biggest problem with the old machines and the card reader is old oil. It becomes hardened when the machine is not used a lot. You may have to heat it a little and give a good cleaning for the card reader to work.


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## RICARDOTEJEDOR (Apr 3, 2014)

hola , si le puedo ayudar , soy tecnico experto en reparar maquinas tarjeteras brother. envieme mas informes sobre como recibio la maquina al principio y que cambios le hizo usted despues . envieme toda la informacion posible y lo solucionare . mi correo es [email protected] saludos desde PERU .RICARDO QUISPE GASPAR


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## crazyK (Jan 13, 2014)

(1) To check if your needles are selecting, do not put your card in, bring your needles to "B" position, take your carriage to the left side outside the small arrow on the back of the machine, Turn your Knob on the carriage to KC
then push your carriage to the right hand side, all your needles should come forward to the "C" position. if they don't and they miss select, your timing is out. Your carriage locks into this Belt on the machine, you will need to take it to a technician to have it fixed. (2) If when you put the card in the machine, and knit does your card turn to the next row if not put a little oil on the stop lever, when you push back & forward you will see where to oil it.
(3) The reason your carriage is hard to push it along the machine is that it is time it had a service, it is starting to seize up


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

Yup, I bought it based on the description that it was in perfect working condition. Looks like it was stored for a long time. 
I have got the stop lever working and the carriage working, etc.that was a simple matter.
It was just a question about the punchcard mechanism I needed help on.
I did download the service manus which basically told me to try a few things and those things did not result in a change (selecting needles). 
Ill be taking it to a technician at some point. Unfortunately I can't get my money back from the seller. Lesson learned!


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## crazyK (Jan 13, 2014)

this only needs a service you should have one about every 6-8 years to keep it going in good condition. It is a nice machine.
To check to see if your sponge bar is good leave all your needles in "A" pos. now put your finger over the end of the needle where the latch and hook is. press them to see if the bounce, it they do you will need a new one, but do not buy 2 because they will deterioate at the same time, this is the only way you can tell.
Also from the picture that you do not have needle protector strip, it goes under the needles and has numbers on it to tell you the amount of stitches. If you have questions you would like to askwrite an other reply to this.
Pull all your needles to "E" pos. and you will see if you have any bent needles if so take them out and replace with new, make sure the latches are not stiff when you open them up. Kathy


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## annazygowski (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks. Replacing the sponge bar was one of the first things I did.


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## libertypup (Jun 11, 2012)

I nearly started a new topic until I found this one with my exact same problem!
Brother 820, punch card advances but needles do not move. I can see down into the mechanism that the white roller does move the upright “posts” but the needles do not move. It appears that the horizontal pins do not move. Of course, it’s nearly impossible to see any of this well.
I can hand select needles and the L carriage works (only dropping every 5th stitch or so) but that’s hardly handy for the lace pattern I want (10 passes of the L carriage for every round trip of the K carriage).
Ideas?


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

I would be inclined to open a case on eBay and get your money back. 

If too late for that do look at the Ask Jack videos on theanswerlady.com site


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## libertypup (Jun 11, 2012)

Thank you but the eBay machine was the person who posted three years ago. Mine is not that.
I've seen all the Jack and Answer Lady videos (aren't they fabulous?). I'm concerned my problem is one the springs "underneath". I'm looking for anything else I can do before seeking professional repair.


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## knitsewon (Dec 1, 2011)

It sounds as if the actual clutch drive for the belt could do with some servicing, ie. freeing up.
Get out the Inox spray and douse the 2 wheel thingies at each end of the belt.
Then , look at the wheel at the right hand end , where the little orange half mooon is.
Examine the metal L shaped bracket to the right of that , follow it down the vertical part , about half way down there is a slit in it and there is a little tongue on the assembly beside that .
The tongue has to fit into that slit correctly for the machine to pattern correctly.
My theory is that when one tests a Bro punch card machine that hasn't been used for yonks , one applies too much force to the carriage , to check the new treasure does actually select needles and that L bracket gets bent.
The bracket can be removed , there are screws securing to the bed below it.
It can be fixed , I have done this brain surgery more that 3 ??? +times.


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## Niky278 (Feb 14, 2018)

I know the post is not recent but i registered to the site only for reply this problem... 
After reading a very lot and viewing all the videos on youtube, the problem is solved: it's a mismatching between the needle cam selector and the clutch wheel! Yes, a belt sync problem even if the belt is mount correctly. Search and download for "kh 830 servicing manual" and look at the picture no.23 on page 27... Done in 2 minutes without need of disassembling, just push down the cam, the connected rod with teeth will slightly separate from the clutch wheel, and meanwhile rotate the clutch until the indentation points towards the cam (cam positioned orizontally like shown in picture). 
The needles now go in position D.
I hope someone in same troubles will find useful. 
P.s. On kh820 without punch card inserted no needle get selected.


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## libertypup (Jun 11, 2012)

Thank you for your replies. I h ave sent them on, along with the service manual, to the repair shop. They had me stop be yesterday to show them how the machine actually operated.


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## Niky278 (Feb 14, 2018)

Well, looking to theanswerlady videos on youtube, all starts with the old oil/grease that stiffs and sticks, and when you try to operate the carriage without first unblocking and cleaning all, it forces the mechanism and the cam loses its timing with the clutch.


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## libertypup (Jun 11, 2012)

I called the repair shop to check on my baby (and see if they'd given up). They'd used all your suggestions, to no avail. They say they're going to keep trying so I'm going to let them.
In the meantime, my Singer 560 is exhibiting the same symptoms. The card reader reads but the needles don't select.
You don't suppose it's contagious.......?


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