# Incredible sweater machine vs ultimate plz help



## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Hi 
Im new to the forum, i m a hand knitters for 16 years now , but sadly after having kids , busy working and all i ended up with some weak nerves in hands and neck that makes holding knitting -or crochet- needles painful afterwards so i decided to give knitting machine a try , brother or silver reed are great but expensive for me now with a new baby on the way so after looking at ebay i found the incredible sweater machine by bond which is uk made 
And a newer version of ultimate sweater machine, i read some bad reviews on both but i like to try one of them myself, some experienced ladies prefer the ISM to USM by saying its well made and better control now i know nothing i mean zero about knitting machines 
But would like you to share your experience plz if you tried one and why you prefer it 
And what about the deluxe version? 
Thanks in advance


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## MaryAnneCutler (Jul 31, 2013)

View the following website. It explains about the different machines and the kinds of yarn each can use.
There are many pre-owned machines on the market, but buy only from someone who knows about them, not someone who does not. It should be complete with MANUALS and all the tools etc as listed in the manual.

http://www.yarn-store.com

Its a great hobby and very useful for knitting for your family.

My blog if of interest. http://www.cutlermac.wordpress.com


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Thank you Macon for your reply , yes its very useful esp if sta y home mom like me


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Anyone?


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## deemail (Jan 25, 2011)

First, there is a Bond (both machines) Group on Facebook with many users who can compare the 2 machines.

I have the ISM for one reason only. Bonds are the only machines that can accept extensions (really as many as you like) so that when you are a larger size (I wear a 2X) you can just knit a sweater instead of having to find design trims and such to hide piecing, which is the only way for me to get a sweater off my brother and studio machines.

I much prefer the metal bed machines (which I bought used, and for which I paid less than my ISM new, but you can find lots of Bonds at garage sales...and the garage sales are THE place to buy old machines for extensions) but the Bond machines are perfectly serviceable and can be used for many things....they are limited only by your imagination. Check youtube to see projects from Bond, ISM and Ultimate Knitting Machines. (search on each of these) I will tell you that it is critical to mount your machine on a FLAT surface. Even a bit of a bump caused by tightening the end clamps too much can cause problems....flat means really flat. But once mounted well and securely, and giving yourself time to learn how to handle the machine (it is not an overnight proposition), you can make tons of things for your family, from the simplest dishcloth gifts to ornate lace and patterned work as long as you understand that they will be hand manipulated. (for which there are actual books dedicated to hand manipulated knitting machine patterns). Good luck, and do check out the youtube and ebay sales.... and keep a watch out for garage sales and craig's list.

Just thought.... go to youtube and search for Cheryl Brunette's series on the Bond....she does an entire series that will take you all the way thru a child's sweater, just so you can see the process. You can work along with her, repeating any instruction as much as you like and she also shows you tons of wonderful things she made on her bond. I actually just bought the entire series a month or so ago and it is well worth the cost to be able to have the details about intarsia, and fairisle and shaping.... it's really comprehensive, but you can get a ton off youtube, too. The series came from TV awhile back. She's just a wonderful teacher and has even been able to work from the back of the machine for our benefit.... here is the Part 1.... they will all lead you to the next part after watching....


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

deemail said:


> First, there is a Bond (both machines) Group on Facebook with many users who can compare the 2 machines.
> 
> I have the ISM for one reason only. Bonds are the only machines that can accept extensions (really as many as you like) so that when you are a larger size (I wear a 2X) you can just knit a sweater instead of having to find design trims and such to hide piecing, which is the only way for me to get a sweater off my brother and studio machines.
> 
> ...


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## deemail (Jan 25, 2011)

first, let me say the ISM is the only Bond I have had.... but.... none of these bond machines are very different...and from the ones I have seen, there is no difference in quality. And, at the low cost of used machines, whichever I could find on sale (which the bond FB site has pretty often) I would just try to buy two...but DO make sure they are exactly the same machine....the Bonds are all very similar and some pieces are interchangeable, but safer just to buy the same exact ones, whether USM or ISM or plain Bond. The black plastic 'hem' that come with them are totally unnecessary and usually the first piece to go...in fact, most used machines won't have an unbroken one. And once you learn to use a 'cast on rag'...you won't want to use it anyway. Youtube can show you this.... and I can certainly help with this... it's the only cast on method I use on ALL my machines. As for parts... the second machine would take care of that... there just aren't THAT many parts. As for patterns, I use the same patterns for my ISM as I do for any machine, the only difference is that you can use larger (and therefore cheaper) yarns so your gauge might be different....but that is part of dealing with any knitting machine. Once you learn how to change gauge, you can use any machine knitting pattern on your Bond. (this just means that if your pattern uses tiny yarn and you want to use bigger yarn, we show you the math to convert from 10 tiny sts to 5 big sts... not hard, especially after the first time). This is definitely a skill any knitter, hand or machine, would want to know. You will have one pattern, after you follow Cheryl Brunette's lesson... she gives you the whole sweater, numbers, inches, size, techniques, all of it, right on the tape. And we KP people will load you down with Bond patterns. There is also a Bond site and a newsletter that include patterns all the time, but really, any pattern you like will be transferrable. I would just suggest you take your time doing small, simple projects at first. Knitting machines, even the plastic ones, are not something you buy today and produce a sweater on tomorrow. But a plain, stockinette dishcloth? Sure...that's possible. (and if you're like me and wouldn't go anywhere near a dishcloth, just call them 'afghan squares'...that's what I do when I want to learn a new pattern or stitch... I just make a 12" square, and then when I'm done, I add it to a stack and when I have 9, I seam, knit, or crochet them together and put them in the 'donor' quilt pile for Linus blankets. Then you can move on to scarves, hats, (I have a hat pattern I give to all new MKers (machine knitters) that is so simple you can make one from start to finish in an hour. It is double layered for warmth and has a cute cuff.... very do-able for new MKers. Once you move beyond stripes (which are super easy) and intarsia (some Bonds come with intarsia plate, some don't), then most designs are the hand manipulated that I spoke of before. They are not the type of machines that can program a design in or use a punchcard to produce, but I have made lace sweaters that are lovely... just one row at a time. Which seems very slow for machine knitters, but is still 100 times faster than hand knitting lace. And easier. I make cables, tuck st, color work (both intarsia and fairisle), ribs and seed st, and they are slow, but usually just for a few rows... would I want to do an all over lace pattern on the ISM, probably not, unless I was in the mood...but it is possible if you are in the mood and besides, 2 inches of a pretty lace inset can look like a million bucks. Imagination and adaptation of other patterns you see are wonderful. But if you want to whip out a kid's pullover, the first one will take you days. The second one will be about 4 hours and the third will be 2 hours and all 3 will have only 2 seams to sew by hand when done.

Sorry, I type fast and had not realized this got so long.... off to brunch now.... digest this info... look at youtube and ebay for prices and lessons and we can talk later....


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Wow that is a great experince you have about knitting machine and i certainly will watch the youtube you recommended . Most informative post i read on these machines thank you very much for taking time to write back


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## randiejg (Oct 29, 2011)

You might want to check on eBay to find a used HK- or LK-series machine (HK-100 8.0mm, LK-100 9.0mm, LK-140 6.5mm, LK-150 6.5mm, etc.). These are also plastic-bed machines, but unlike the Bond machines, they have a carriage with a dial to control the tension, and depending on the model, have a tension pole that controls the flow of the yarn into the carriage. These machines will also do many texture-type stitches (such as tuck stitch and slip stitch) more automatically than will the Bond machines. The needle spacing (noted in mms after each model) determines what thickness of yarn works best on that machine. The Bond machines are 8.0mm (except for the Elite version), which in the U.S. would be a worsted weight #4 yarn

I love my LK-150, which is considered a mid-gauge, as it handles sport, baby, and DK weight yarns up to some light worsted weights.

The Silver-Reed LK-series machines can also be extended the same as the Bond machines. I have an extension kit for the LK-150 that I have yet to install, as I haven't yet decided what type of stand to jury-rig and where I will put the longer machine. It came with the full instructions, extension bed, screws, needles, extra-long sponge strip, a second tension assembly and the little piece that fits into the back of the bed to hold the tension rod.


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## Barcoded (Jul 28, 2015)

A lot of people give up on Bonds very quickly as they don't follow the instructions exactly. As per above, it's got to be flat and use the lubrication! Spray can of silicon lubricant worked for me.

I sold mine (got more than I paid for it) and got an older brother kh 840 for£25 that hadn't been used very much if at all so I could use the punch cards.

Expect weeks of practice to get it right and work through the instruction book page by page and this will be very helpful when you come to make an item.

Bonds will be lighter to move about.

What ever you decide to chose, good luck and it shouldn't cost a lot.


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

randiejg said:


> You might want to check on eBay to find a used HK- or LK-series machine (HK-100 8.0mm, LK-100 9.0mm, LK-140 6.5mm, LK-150 6.5mm, etc.). These are also plastic-bed machines, but unlike the Bond machines, they have a carriage with a dial to control the tension, and depending on the model, have a tension pole that controls the flow of the yarn into the carriage. These machines will also do many texture-type stitches (such as tuck stitch and slip stitch) more automatically than will the Bond machines. The needle spacing (noted in mms after each model) determines what thickness of yarn works best on that machine. The Bond machines are 8.0mm (except for the Elite version), which in the U.S. would be a worsted weight #4 yarn
> 
> I love my LK-150, which is considered a mid-gauge, as it handles sport, baby, and DK weight yarns up to some light worsted weights.
> 
> ...


Thank you randi , you just read my mind lol, i really admire the classic bond over the new versions ISM or USM 
But with constant looking on ebay i saw a silver reed lk- 150 , it is shown as used , untested, but all parts are there and looks in great condition with reasonable price as the new one is out of my budget, now i would like your help plz how can i make my judgment through buying it with this condition ? Things i need to ask for ? Things i should consider replacing them any way if i got it - also depends on the price- i heared i should buy silicon spray where can i get that ? And there is spong sth in the machine i read its better replaced anyway coz of storing will deteriorate it over time , where can i buy that too? 
Lots of questions i know forgive my complete ignorance in knitting machines, can i make hand knitting stitches with this machine or even the bond if i got ?


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Barcoded said:


> A lot of people give up on Bonds very quickly as they don't follow the instructions exactly. As per above, it's got to be flat and use the lubrication! Spray can of silicon lubricant worked for me.
> 
> I sold mine (got more than I paid for it) and got an older brother kh 840 for£25 that hadn't been used very much if at all so I could use the punch cards.
> 
> ...


Yes i read that too about the bond machine,i try to make my mind on either a silver reed or classic bond thx for reply


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## randiejg (Oct 29, 2011)

If the seller has said "untested," and cannot guarantee that the machine is in working condition, I would not buy the machine. Also, you want to ask if the manual is included, and if the carriage and all the parts and tools shown in the manual are included with the machine, and that there is no rust on the needles or under the carriage. Be sure that any questions you ask about the machine go through the eBay system, so there is a record of their response. If they say that it is in working condition, and it has the manual, carriage and all of the tools, etc., you will then have a good case to get a refund if they have not been truthful. Be sure to complete your transaction through PayPal, as they usually side with the buyer in disputes of this kind.

Be sure to read any responses from the seller carefully. The responses should be clear so that there is no question about what they are guaranteeing. A response such as "Yes, of course," is not adequate.

Sponge strips in these machines usually last quite a long time, but if the machine has been stored in an inhospitable location (such as excess dampness, dustiness, heat, etc.), the machine may need a good cleaning and definitely need a replacement sponge strip. You don't need to use silicone spray, on the LK machines, but sometimes we spray the yarn with it to make it knit easier and with less resistance. It depends on the yarn. If you don't already have one, you will want to by a hand-crank ball winder to wind skeined yarn into balls, as you normally would not want to knit from a skein to the machine. I'm not sure of where you are located, but if you are in the US, and have a Michaels or Joanns store near you, it would be a good thing to use one of their 40% off coupons on.

All flat-bed knitting machines primarily knit stockinette stitch. On metal bed machines, you can add another part called a ribber, to do ribbing stitches, but the plastic machines such as the Bonds and LKs do not have ribbers, so you can do either a mock rib, or use a tool that comes with the machine (the latch tool), to help you to reform stitches on the machine to do ribbing. The LK-150 carriage has various settings that will let you do slip-stitch and tuck-stitch knitting, and you can also do hand-manipulated lace and various other stitches by using the tools that come with the machine. 

You may want to do a little research on YouTube by typing in LK-150 knitting machine, and you will find videos of people demonstrating how to do all sorts of things on the machine. It's much easier to see a demonstration than to give a verbal description.


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## Monalisa47 (Jan 30, 2016)

I have a 910 knitting machine (Brother) for sale and it is much superior to Bond. If you are interested I can send you details plus accessories for it. Reasonable price Mona Reynolds


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

Barcoded said:


> A lot of people give up on Bonds very quickly as they don't follow the instructions exactly. As per above, it's got to be flat and use the lubrication! Spray can of silicon lubricant worked for me.
> 
> I sold mine (got more than I paid for it) and got an older brother kh 840 for£25 that hadn't been used very much if at all so I could use the punch cards.
> 
> ...


Do you recommend a bond or silver reed lk-150 for a beginner?


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## sofa_lolo (Jul 10, 2016)

randiejg said:


> If the seller has said "untested," and cannot guarantee that the machine is in working condition, I would not buy the machine. Also, you want to ask if the manual is included, and if the carriage and all the parts and tools shown in the manual are included with the machine, and that there is no rust on the needles or under the carriage. Be sure that any questions you ask about the machine go through the eBay system, so there is a record of their response. If they say that it is in working condition, and it has the manual, carriage and all of the tools, etc., you will then have a good case to get a refund if they have not been truthful. Be sure to complete your transaction through PayPal, as they usually side with the buyer in disputes of this kind.
> 
> Be sure to read any responses from the seller carefully. The responses should be clear so that there is no question about what they are guaranteeing. A response such as "Yes, of course," is not adequate.
> 
> ...


I already watched lots vedioes for this machine , its really nice but i checked with micheals and joann online and they don have this machine , im in houston tx , im not sure where to look for one either used in good condition which is much better for my budget ornew with discount , you are right about the untested condition on ebay thanks alot for your help


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## etrnlife (Jun 10, 2014)

I have an older British Bond Classic, mine is brown/gray with a wire guide carriage, and an early US made USM, my carriage doesn't have the bent "wings" or sponge strip. My USM is actually better built than the later models I've seen and used, but my Classic is the best. 

The wire guide carriage is better for tuck stitches and when doing lots of short rowing. The USM carriage is best for Fair Isle and intarsia. The wire guide carriage uses the Knitsmart keyplates so I can get a tighter tension than KP 1 when using fine sport weight or thicker fingering weight yarns. The ability to have KP 2.5 and 3.5 does give a broader gauge range with the USM carriage.

My needles, on the Classic especially, are as loose as a goose and I am fine with that. I tried to knit on a Bond with the sponge strip and wanted to rip it out, but the machine didn't belong to me. 

I have both beds joined together and its easy to see where the center is because the beds and retainer bars are different colors per bed. I can knit with both carriages at the same time, so I can do two sleeves at once or an afghan in one piece. For baby items I can do the front and back at the same time.

While at times, I would like to have a Brother bulky (can't do tuck rib on a Singer bulky) I am happy with my Bonds and have used them for almost 16 years now.


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## Azzara (Jan 23, 2014)

sofa_lolo said:


> Do you recommend a bond or silver reed lk-150 for a beginner?


Silver Reed LK 150


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## Barcoded (Jul 28, 2015)

If you are in Houston, can you look up Dianna Sullivan, I think she does/used to do classes


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## Bobj69091 (Jan 29, 2015)

Diana's website is: diananatters.blogspot.com She is in Austin.


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