# Obamacare #5



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, it's like any of the "We the people," laws that have been passed. I know a lot of people who hate wearing their seat belts.....but it's the law. People aren't to be driving when their drunk....because that's the law. Yet the stupid ones still do. Some people don't want to buy, car insurance, they'd rather spend their money on something else,.....but it's the law. What it boils down to is, IT'S THE LAW! You have no choice but to follow the law....whether you like it or not. You can belly ache all you want....but you can't disobey the law, without repercussions.


What repercussions will there be for Obama since he has disobeyed the law on a number of occasions? How many groups of people, businesses, etc., have received waivers and postponements from Obama on the ACA? He had no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval. How many appointments did Obama make while Congress was still in session? By law he couldn't do that either. If I can't disobey the law, neither can The President of the United States. In that respect, we are equal, so I will belly ache and even whine about it all I want. He is one that took an oath to uphold the laws of the land.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Don't you care that this is happening to people? Don't you care about them?


LL, the leftists do care about people, themselves! The ones they profess to help are actually hurt the most by their policies. They make people dependent on gov't for existence, an existence without hope and without change.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ok.....how do you plan to do that???


soloweygirl said:


> A higher minimum wage will do nothing for the unemployed. Raising the minimum wage is inadequate for the larger challenge of reducing poverty. It doesn't do anything to get workers into more skilled positions or administrative jobs, which will actually pay the higher wages and provide benefits. It is only a short term
> "fix" which will show up in higher prices to cover employer's costs. It will ultimately keep them in the exact place they are now.
> 
> More effort should be put into bringing back the good paying jobs (manufacturing) and not into fighting over increasing pay for entry level positions and part time work. This is not good for our country.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

momeee said:


> Ratings Disaster: MSNBC & CNN Bleed Numbers so Badly, Time to Call a Paramedic
> Kyle Becker On November 29, 2013
> 
> The ratings are in  and you three fans of MSNBC are going to be extremely disappointed. As for you airport managers, you might want to look into cutting CNN 24/7, your trapped customers are not happy about a news network as popular as the TSA.
> ...


Lately, CNN has been changing it's lineup to more fluff shows and getting away from the news. This has been a direct result from the loss of viewers.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Don't give me that babble. The Democrats spent all President Obama's time in office thus far trying to get the Republican's to be reasonable, and just do SOMETHING! ANYTHING!, to help the people of this country....all they did was stonewall until they almost shut the government down. They really thought they could get President Obama to cave, so they took it to the 11th hour. But it didn't happen. They had to back down. At least they had a few sane Republican's left to convince the rest of them not to go completely over the edge. 
During that long session the Republican's changed the rules without letting the Democrats know. What kind of party would enact a rule stating that only THEY could bring a measure or bill to the floor? That's tantamount to treason in my book. 
And now you are surprised that the President is doing what he has to do to keep the country running? If he broke the law, why isn't he in jail?????
As for President Obama having no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval......I guess what goes around comes around.


soloweygirl said:


> What repercussions will there be for Obama since he has disobeyed the law on a number of occasions? How many groups of people, businesses, etc., have received waivers and postponements from Obama on the ACA? He had no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval. How many appointments did Obama make while Congress was still in session? By law he couldn't do that either. If I can't disobey the law, neither can The President of the United States. In that respect, we are equal, so I will belly ache and even whine about it all I want. He is one that took an oath to uphold the laws of the land.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A higher minimum wage will do nothing for the unemployed. Raising the minimum wage is inadequate for the larger challenge of reducing poverty. It doesn't do anything to get workers into more skilled positions or administrative jobs, which will actually pay the higher wages and provide benefits. It is only a short term
> "fix" which will show up in higher prices to cover employer's costs. It will ultimately keep them in the exact place they are now.
> 
> More effort should be put into bringing back the good paying jobs (manufacturing) and not into fighting over increasing pay for entry level positions and part time work. This is not good for our country.


A higher minimum wage will do a lot for the people working in low pay jobs. It will help them to not need food stamps which republicans are always trying to cut. You don't want to raise the minimum wage but you want to cut food stamps at the same time. Those two things don't go together. 
Not everyone is going to go into a more skilled position or administrative work. When you consider all the people in this country, why do you always consider those that work at McDonalds or WalMart as failures if they don't want to get into administrative or more skilled work. Some may never do that, but they should be paid a living wage. The employer could raise the minimum wage which would go back into the economy and give more people purchasing power and be good for everyone. Or another idea. How about the top CEO's take a 2 million dollar bonus instead of 3 million and pay everyone a little more. As I have said before a little less greed at the top would be good for the country.
You are right, we need more good paying jobs, but the republicans won't pass a jobs bill, cause that would help President Obama to be successful.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What repercussions will there be for Obama since he has disobeyed the law on a number of occasions? How many groups of people, businesses, etc., have received waivers and postponements from Obama on the ACA? He had no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval. How many appointments did Obama make while Congress was still in session? By law he couldn't do that either. If I can't disobey the law, neither can The President of the United States. In that respect, we are equal, so I will belly ache and even whine about it all I want. He is one that took an oath to uphold the laws of the land.


Be specific, what has he done to break the law?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Don't you care that this is happening to people? Don't you care about them?


They don't care about the middle class people that are being hurt by Obamacare through no fault of their own. All they did to deserve this treatment was the responsible thing in paying for their own health insurance.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Then change your insurance--you now have that option. My premiums have gone down because I was able to switch from Blue Cross to Kaiser, thanks to the ACA.


Great so not only do I lose my Religious Freedom I can also lose my doctor too.

I have no other choices that are within a comparable driving distance. Or would you prefer that I create a larger Carbon Imprint?

Oh, less than 9 hours for the new and improved Obamacare train wreck web site to be unveiled.

tick tock


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Don't give me that babble. The Democrats spent all President Obama's time in office thus far trying to get the Republican's to be reasonable, and just do SOMETHING! ANYTHING!, to help the people of this country....all they did was stonewall until they almost shut the government down. They really thought they could get President Obama to cave, so they took it to the 11th hour. But it didn't happen. They had to back down. At least they had a few sane Republican's left to convince the rest of them not to go completely over the edge.
> During that long session the Republican's changed the rules without letting the Democrats know. What kind of party would enact a rule stating that only THEY could bring a measure or bill to the floor? That's tantamount to treason in my book.
> And now you are surprised that the President is doing what he has to do to keep the country running? If he broke the law, why isn't he in jail?????
> As for President Obama having no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval......I guess what goes around comes around.


Obama did break the law, so why isn't he in jail? He did it and is using the Republicans as his excuse, as are you. He wasn't forced into giving all of the waivers nor the postponements for Obamacare, he did that on his own. Wake up and see what is happening.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL, the leftists do care about people, themselves! The ones they profess to help are actually hurt the most by their policies. They make people dependent on gov't for existence, an existence without hope and without change.


So, they really do not care about people. Just themselves. It is easy to see.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

VERY well put NJG! 
But I don't suppose she'll get it...... :-( 


NJG said:


> A higher minimum wage will do a lot for the people working in low pay jobs. It will help them to not need food stamps which republicans are always trying to cut. You don't want to raise the minimum wage but you want to cut food stamps at the same time. Those two things don't go together.
> Not everyone is going to go into a more skilled position or administrative work. When you consider all the people in this country, why do you always consider those that work at McDonalds or WalMart as failures if they don't want to get into administrative or more skilled work. Some may never do that, but they should be paid a living wage. The employer could raise the minimum wage which would go back into the economy and give more people purchasing power and be good for everyone. Or another idea. How about the top CEO's take a 2 million dollar bonus instead of 3 million and pay everyone a little more. As I have said before a little less greed at the top would be good for the country.
> You are right, we need more good paying jobs, but the republicans won't pass a jobs bill, cause that would help President Obama to be successful.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> They don't care about the middle class people that are being hurt by Obamacare through no fault of their own. All they did to deserve this treatment was the responsible thing in paying for their own health insurance.


What a sad state of affairs. The kind of thinking that made this country great - is not how they are thinking (the libs).


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> The premium of my supplement went up too. It does it every year at this time because I get a year older. The first supplement I had didn't do that, but they had a higher premium to start with. I changed my prescription insurance to a different company because my other one wouldn't allow me to increase the dosage of one medication that I needed. I found another one that has a little higher premium, but I pay less for the prescriptions so I come out money ahead. Shop around, don't just sit and complain. What religious conscience? They way you talk to people on here and your lack of empathy for others tells me there is nothing religious about you. I think you need to find another excuse.


I think you need to check your facts. How do you know that I haven't checked..............Oh wait, the Obamacare website doesn't work. But to switch insurance companies would mean I would a longer drive and new doctors and hospitals.

I used the phrase my Religious Freedom was being violated. Just because I do not have the same beliefs regarding abortion and the morning after pill does not make me less religious or companionate than pro abortionists. I have been consistent with my beliefs regarding non emergency abortions and the Morning After Pill . Just because I do not believe in abortion does not mean I am less empathetic than you.

It appears that you are not empathetic towards someone that does not hold your beliefs


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I think you need to check your facts. How do you know that I haven't checked..............Oh wait, the Obamacare website doesn't work. But to switch insurance companies would me a longer drive and new doctors and hospitals.
> 
> I used the phrase my Religious Freedom was being violated. Just because I do not have the same beliefs regarding abortion and the morning after pill does not make me less religious or companionate than pro abortionists. I have been consistent with my beliefs regarding non emergency abortions and the Morning After Pill . Just because I do not believe in abortion does not mean I am less empathetic than you.
> 
> It appears that you are not empathetic towards someone that does not hold your beliefs


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> A higher minimum wage will do a lot for the people working in low pay jobs. It will help them to not need food stamps which republicans are always trying to cut. You don't want to raise the minimum wage but you want to cut food stamps at the same time. Those two things don't go together.
> Not everyone is going to go into a more skilled position or administrative work. When you consider all the people in this country, why do you always consider those that work at McDonalds or WalMart as failures if they don't want to get into administrative or more skilled work. Some may never do that, but they should be paid a living wage. The employer could raise the minimum wage which would go back into the economy and give more people purchasing power and be good for everyone. Or another idea. How about the top CEO's take a 2 million dollar bonus instead of 3 million and pay everyone a little more. As I have said before a little less greed at the top would be good for the country.
> You are right, we need more good paying jobs, but the republicans won't pass a jobs bill, cause that would help President Obama to be successful.


 Employees at stores like WalMart and McDonalds can do something to improve themselves, even those with diminished mental capabilities and other disabilities. Failure is your description, so that is how you perceive them. Companies like WalMart and McDonalds do offer their employees avenues to improve themselves. If the employee chooses not to do so, it's on them and the taxpayers shouldn't have to bear the burden of their choice. These companies pay the market price. They know what value to place on the work required, doubling the pay for low skill jobs is not good business. Raising the minimum wage will not guarantee that food stamps will not be needed. It's ridiculous to even consider it. No one can make the employees improve themselves or their skills. They are the ones that will have to be satisfied with the lower wages. Every employee has a choice, they can either grow within their jobs, or stagnate. If their choice is to stagnate, then they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay for the difference.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Be specific, what has he done to break the law?


Really? Where have you been for the last 3 years?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?

If they do, I want to know if they allowed a union to form within their organization and what they pay their workers - it better be well above the minimum wage since that is all they can harp upon (NJG specifically) - and what health insurance plans and other benefits _they_ give to their employees.

Otherwise, just they are offering only noise and ignorant theories since they do not understand business nor how to create and run one.

I learned that the big protest of "Walmart employees" who walked in protest this weekend were not even employees of Walmart, but paid to walk in protest.

How pathetic is that? Overall, Walmart employees are thrilled to at least have the hours and wages they do.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> VERY well put NJG!
> But I don't suppose she'll get it...... :-(


I get it completely, the libs want to raise the minimum wage so they can by-pass Congress and not have it come out as a new tax.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Employees at stores like WalMart and McDonalds can do something to improve themselves, even those with diminished mental capabilities and other disabilities. Failure is your description, so that is how you perceive them. Companies like WalMart and McDonalds do offer their employees avenues to improve themselves. If the employee chooses not to do so, it's on them and the taxpayers shouldn't have to bear the burden of their choice. These companies pay the market price. They know what value to place on the work required, doubling the pay for low skill jobs is not good business. Raising the minimum wage will not guarantee that food stamps will not be needed. It's ridiculous to even consider it. No one can make the employees improve themselves or their skills. They are the ones that will have to be satisfied with the lower wages. Every employee has a choice, they can either grow within their jobs, or stagnate. If their choice is to stagnate, then they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay for the difference.


Walmart is the number one retail employer in the USA. Wouldn't it be good to shut up the Libs if Walmart fired half of their staff and cut all full-time workers to part time, without any benefits, as the law allows but increase the minimum wages to those workers they continue to employ? Guess what will happen to all those who used to work their and all those who shop there? Walmart provides a tremendous service to lower income shoppers - guess what will happen to prices when Walmart pays a higher wage Libs?

The Libs never think about what they say, they just say what they think makes sense. They say it again and again and again. No wonder they never have their own businesses or become successful, they do not know how to do anything but complain and rely on others.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Really? Where have you been for the last 3 years?


Lost - completely and hopelessly lost.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> They don't care about the middle class people that are being hurt by Obamacare through no fault of their own.


Uh-huh. Frankly, I had a lot more sympathy for these folks before Black Friday. If Americans have time and money enough to camp out in front of the stores for the opportunity to blow thousands of dollars on gifts, they have the means to put some thought and effort into finding a health care plan that works for them. People need to get their priorities straight.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I think you need to check your facts. How do you know that I haven't checked..............Oh wait, the Obamacare website doesn't work. But to switch insurance companies would mean I would a longer drive and new doctors and hospitals.
> 
> I used the phrase my Religious Freedom was being violated. Just because I do not have the same beliefs regarding abortion and the morning after pill does not make me less religious or companionate than pro abortionists. I have been consistent with my beliefs regarding non emergency abortions and the Morning After Pill . Just because I do not believe in abortion does not mean I am less empathetic than you.
> 
> It appears that you are not empathetic towards someone that does not hold your beliefs


I'm sorry, I guess I assumed you were on Medicare and had a supplement and Part D. If you are not, I apologize. If you are, you do not have to be concerned about the ACA, as it does not affect you, and you do go to the ACA website to change anything. Since Terry McAuliffe is to be your new governor, he is for the ACA so maybe after the first of the year you will have more options. Remember though that he has to convince the republican congress so it depends on what they will allow.
As far as your religious freedom, if you do not like the morning after pill, do not take one and no one has to get an abortion if they choose not to. The thing that bothers me is when you try to impose your beliefs on someone else and restrict their access. You have no right to do that. 
My comments about empathy are more about the talk about lazy people, and the comments that have been made about poor people. This is common from republicans on this forum, this attitude that I have done everything right and therefor I am better than you. I do not like that.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Uh-huh. Frankly, I had a lot more sympathy for these folks before Black Friday. If Americans have time and money enough to camp out in front of the stores for the opportunity to blow thousands of dollars on gifts, they have the means to put some thought and effort into finding a health care plan that works for them. People need to get their priorities straight.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?
> 
> If they do, I want to know if they allowed a union to form within their organization and what they pay their workers - it better be well above the minimum wage since that is all they can harp upon (NJG specifically) - and what health insurance plans and other benefits _they_ give to their employees.
> 
> ...


I am retired, sorry to burst your bubble. It doesn't surprise me at all that other people would protest at Walmart. It is that empathy thing again that you don't have. A lot of people have empathy for WalMart workers. And before you make a big deal about people being "paid to walk in protest" here is an explanation.

According to the NLRB memo, before last years Black Friday walkout, the Union advertised a $50 gift card to the first 700 employees who walked off the job on Black Friday. The NLRB noted a campaign e-mail which said Going on strike is never an easy decision. We are all barely getting by as it isthe first 700 Associates who sign up to strike will get a $50 gift card for us to use to buy groceries for our families. Rejecting a Wal-Mart allegation that the gift cards were illegal, the NLRB associate general counsel concluded that the offer did not restrain or coerce employees, but rather represented a non excessive strike benefit designed to reimburse employees for some of their lost wages if they struck, and was non discriminatory.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Not nice what you are saying about me as I could say the same about all of the Lefties on this thread!


Yeah, you could, but you'd be wrong. Again.

:XD:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Really? Where have you been for the last 3 years?


Living right here in Iowa, where have you been. I know you listen and believe what is on Fox news. Again, be specific, what has he done to break the law?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Employees at stores like WalMart and McDonalds can do something to improve themselves, even those with diminished mental capabilities and other disabilities. Failure is your description, so that is how you perceive them. Companies like WalMart and McDonalds do offer their employees avenues to improve themselves. If the employee chooses not to do so, it's on them and the taxpayers shouldn't have to bear the burden of their choice. These companies pay the market price. They know what value to place on the work required, doubling the pay for low skill jobs is not good business. Raising the minimum wage will not guarantee that food stamps will not be needed. It's ridiculous to even consider it. No one can make the employees improve themselves or their skills. They are the ones that will have to be satisfied with the lower wages. Every employee has a choice, they can either grow within their jobs, or stagnate. If their choice is to stagnate, then they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pay for the difference.


BOY has WalMart got you snowed. Whew.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Really? Where have you been for the last 3 years?


Wow. Can't believe she asked that question. Blind!


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Those who came across the border from Mexico are all illegal except their children that they are having like rabbits--as fast as they can have them & of course there isn't a husband so they collect Welfare.


Oh, it's so conveeeeeenient to have scapegoats -- especially brown-skinned scapegoats. Your Republican bosses love it because -- well, for starters they're as racist as you folks are, so it comes naturally -- it keeps you distracted and hating on people who have nothing to do with your problems and keeps attention far, far away from them and their massive shortfalls and failings.

Secondly, if you were to open your heart enough to see the sufering and misery, you would not be able to live with yourself if you didn't DO something about it. And who wants to do that? Not you (plural), that's for sure. Nuh huh. Much nicer, more comfortable to just ignore all that suffering and misery and stay isolated and unperturbed in your little ivory prison dumps.

But, for those who are interested, here's the truth:



> MYTH #3: The nation spends billions of dollars on welfare for undocumented immigrants.
> 
> FACTS: To the contrary, undocumented immigrants are not eligible to receive any welfare benefits and even legal immigrants are severely restricted in the benefits they can receive.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Wow. Can't believe she asked that question. Blind!


Come on, have some guts. Tell me specifically what he did. No, I am not blind.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Secondly, if you were to open your heart enough to see the sufering and misery, you would not be able to live with yourself if you didn't DO something about it. And who wants to do that? Not you (plural), that's for sure. Nuh huh. Much nicer, more comfortable to just ignore all that suffering and misery and stay isolated and unperturbed in your little ivory prison dumps.


Knitry - You don't get it do you? The government cannot - is incapable of - stopping misery. Where do you get the idea that it can? You cannot depend on the government to do that.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> Come on, have some guts. Tell me specifically what he did. No, I am not blind.


Read. I am not your resource center - you do the work.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Read. I am not your resource center - you do the work.


You are so funny, but just what I thought. You talk big, Oh he broke the law, but if you have to list what he did, then it is you do the work. You are PHONY PHONY PHONY and those are the nice words.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Read. I am not your resource center - you do the work.


Translation: LL can't come up with anything. This is the same gal who wanted a bomb dropped on Obama's head. What the heck is wrong with her?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> A higher minimum wage will do nothing for the unemployed. Raising the minimum wage is inadequate for the larger challenge of reducing poverty. It doesn't do anything to get workers into more skilled positions or administrative jobs, which will actually pay the higher wages and provide benefits. It is only a short term
> "fix" which will show up in higher prices to cover employer's costs. It will ultimately keep them in the exact place they are now.
> 
> More effort should be put into bringing back the good paying jobs (manufacturing) and not into fighting over increasing pay for entry level positions and part time work. This is not good for our country.


Utter bull. Which are you: that misinformed, or that uneducated (ignorant)?

Raising the minimum wage ripples through the economy and has the effect of raising other wages. Increased wages, even just the minimum, gets more money circulating in the economy (a huge: DUH to that!!), and that increases sales because people clearly have a little more discretionary income to spend and quite willingly do so. When sales and wages increase, jobs are created --

*And not until!!!*

It's a complete fiction (and a cruel one) that jobs get created in any other way but through higher wages -- and that includes SOME wages, where there have been none due to high unemployment.

If tax cuts for the wealthy "created jobs," as has been claimed, we'd be SWIMMING in more jobs than we could possible use and we'd be begging people to immigrate.

Fighting for a living wage for our lowest paid workers is a VERY effective strategy for the entire economy, for the reasons I gave above.

Oh, and btw, higher minimum wage does little to raise prices, but leaving the wages at poverty levels does a LOT for the tax burden of having to keep poorly paid workers from starving to death. For example, as I've already posted, we ALL subsidize Wal-Mart's wages since they are not high enough to keep people out of poverty. I'm tired of subsidizing Wal-Mart and would rather pay more for their garbage on the rare occasions I shop there than have to pay taxes to help support the workers they refuse to pay while the Walton Family members drag home BILLIONS of dollars each year:



> *6 of the Top 10 U.S. Billionaires Are Kochs and Waltons*
> http://www.alternet.org/economy/six-top-ten-us-billionaires-are-kochs-and-waltons
> For the first time ever, according to Forbes magazine, the 400 richest Americanshave more than $2 trillion in combined wealth. And, a fifth of that amount is held by just 10 individuals. Of those top 10 richest Americans, six hail from two familiesthe Kochs and the Waltonswho are destroying our economy and corrupting our politics.
> 
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Walmart is the number one retail employer in the USA. Wouldn't it be good to shut up the Libs if Walmart fired half of their staff and cut all full-time workers to part time, without any benefits, as the law allows but increase the minimum wages to those workers they continue to employ? Guess what will happen to all those who used to work their and all those who shop there? Walmart provides a tremendous service to lower income shoppers - guess what will happen to prices when Walmart pays a higher wage Libs?


See this: http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4390385&t=216550


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Knitry - You don't get it do you? The government cannot - is incapable of - stopping misery. Where do you get the idea that it can? You cannot depend on the government to do that.


Well said, LL. :thumbup: :thumbup: If anything, government creates more misery through higher and higher taxes and increasingly stringent regulations.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh boy.....I get to answer a specific question..... :lol:

First off. I don't have to tell you anything. But I'd be proud to.

Neither my husband nor I come from money. His family were farmers. And his dad had to work off the farm to make ends meet. My Dad worked construction. He eventually joined the union, and my Mom worked as a waitress all her life. Till the age of 70. She would probably still be working if she hadn't gotten & died of colon cancer. My Dad is now in a retirement home, as in my husbands Mother.

As for me.....Okay....here goes.... I was married at the young age of 17. My husband was 19. And by the way, on Dec. 30th we will celebrate our 39th anniversary... :thumbup: At one point he worked 3 jobs. It was hand to mouth until he started working construction on a UNION job. I was a stay at home Mom, raising our two daughters. This was in the mid 70s.Then it was an easier thing to do. When my husband was in his late 20's he decided he wanted to be a lineman. He was an apprentice lineman for 5 yrs. traveling around the states getting his, on the job, training. The girls and I stayed in our home state. When he became a journeyman lineman, he took a job with a utility company. During that time, we had owned 2 new mobile homes. Nothing fancy. My husband will be able to retire in 5 1/2 years.

No, we don't own a business. Personally I don't know why anyone would want the headache that goes with owning a business. But that's just me. And yes....we like the union.

Our girls graduated from high school. The oldest, 39 yrs old, is also a stay at home Mom, with two daughters. Her husband is a union electrician. They bought a house here in town 1 1/2 yrs ago. My youngest daughter, 32 yrs. old, has a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice, and is still attending college going for her Doctorate. She also works at the college, so receives 2 free classes every semester. She loves learning. She and her fiance of 5 yrs, who is a union apprentice electrician, will be getting married next Sept. She has everything reserved and ready. She also, on her own credit, bought a house in the Fall of 2011. Pretty good for a woman on her own wouldn't you say? I know I'm extremely proud of my girls. 
As for my husband and myself, in 1998 we bought 7 acres of land, that we paid cash for, just outside the city, which now has been annexed into the city. We designed and had a house built. We did all the inside work ourselves. 
After my youngest daughter graduated from High school, I got my GED, and took a part time job with a Home Help service. We help to make it possible for the elderly to stay in their own homes for as long as possible.
My car is almost 10 yrs old. We buy new and keep them till we feel they are no longer completely reliable. My husband just bought a 2014 Chevy Silverado last week. He traded in his 10 yr old Chevy Silverado. Our house was paid for in 14 yrs. And my husband paid cash for the pickup. 
Do I sound like I'm bragging? Well, remember.....you asked. 
The reason we have all we have, is because we never bought anything we couldn't afford. We saved our money, and didn't give our daughters the world. They had to work for what they have too. We paid for our oldest daughters wedding, and put our youngest though her first 3 yrs of college. After that, financially they were on their own. We have never been without any kind of insurance since my husband joined the union. And the one time we were, and our daughter needed her appendix out, we made payments to the hospital until the bill was paid off. 
I know a lot of people hate the union, and I have no problem admitting that there are problems in the union, just like in any other organization. But believe me, if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be where we are. 
Our families came from little or nothing. Immigrants from Russia who homesteaded in this state. But we worked hard, saved our money, and you could say we are successful. But we didn't get a hand out from anyone while we did it. We are not rich. We don't even qualify for middle class. But we made it, and we're proud!

By the way....I applied for a job at Walmart after I got my GED, and the working conditions were atrocious.

So, now you can get off my back!

Let's hear how you got to where you are in life...maybe it'll tell us why you are the angry miserable person you seem to be.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?
> 
> If they do, I want to know if they allowed a union to form within their organization and what they pay their workers - it better be well above the minimum wage since that is all they can harp upon (NJG specifically) - and what health insurance plans and other benefits _they_ give to their employees.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Knitry - You don't get it do you? The government cannot - is incapable of - stopping misery. Where do you get the idea that it can? You cannot depend on the government to do that.


Oh, good God.

This argument reminds me of the story about an old man who was walking along the beach where thousands upon thousands of starfish had been washed up during a stormy high tide and were in danger of dying. Methodically, he walked along the beach picking up one up after another and throwing it back into the ocean. It was tiring work, and he wasn't making much progress.

A young boy came along and said, "Mister, what are you dong? You can't save all these starfish! What difference are you making??"

"No," the old man replied. "But I can save some. And what I'm doing makes a lot of difference to the ones that get thrown back."

No, the government can't "stop misery" but it can do a great deal to allay the vagaries of the inadequately regulated, inequitable and downright rapacious capitalism we are living with today. It can do a great deal to provide some type of absolute floor (aka: safety net) under the worst of the suffering. It can do a great deal to give people a hand up and a small break.

The truth is most people are NOT lazy. Most people stay on welfare for a short time. Most people go on to become (or return to being) productive and well-adjusted citizens. Those are well-documented facts, but again, those FACTS don't advance the self-serving narrative of the emotionally constipated, judgmental, greedy and selfish right.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Oh boy.....I get to answer a specific question..... :lol:
> 
> First off. I don't have to tell you anything. But I'd be proud to.
> 
> So, now you can get off my back!


As I suspected; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered my question of why not. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done.

You do not have the knowledge nor the right to tell anyone how to run a business, spend their money or pay their employees so stop trying same and complaining.

Oh, and to you, Nussa, a couple of points: 1) I didn't ask you how you live or got to where you are in life. I simply asked if you have ever owned your own business and if not, why not. You took my question to brag about yourself; the mark of insecurity.

2) I don't normally respond to you and it is you who repeatedly states you ignore me, so who's latched onto whom? Rhetorical question ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are so funny, but just what I thought. You talk big, Oh he broke the law, but if you have to list what he did, then it is you do the work. You are PHONY PHONY PHONY and those are the nice words.


You are a very mean person. I did not bother because anything I write will be disrespected by you. I will not read your posts any more because as I said before, you are not a nice person.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Translation: LL can't come up with anything. This is the same gal who wanted a bomb dropped on Obama's head. What the heck is wrong with her?


That's what you think. You are not worth the work. You do the work. You are also not a very nice person. I will not respect any request from you and the other one N - something. I am done with your posts. I have no respect for you as you show now respect for me.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Well said, LL. :thumbup: :thumbup: If anything, government creates more misery through higher and higher taxes and increasingly stringent regulations.


Thanks, Jokim.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, good God.
> 
> This argument reminds me of the story about an old man who was walking along the beach where thousands upon thousands of starfish had been washed up during a stormy high tide and were in danger of dying. Methodically, he walked along the beach picking up one up after another and throwing it back into the ocean. It was tiring work, and he wasn't making much progress.
> 
> ...


Oh, Good God. Why don't you understand.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Oh, Good God. Why don't you understand.


 :XD: :thumbup: I don't read her posts at all, but am happy to give you a thumbs up to whatever you said against whatever she attempted to explain to you!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: :thumbup: I don't read her posts at all, but am happy to give you a thumbs up to whatever you said against whatever she attempted to explain to you!


They are negative, do not listen, racist, twist what is said around, and plain crazy. Not reading their posts again. So, I hope they don't waste their time.

Thanks KPG. Appreciate your support.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

KPG- Your opening sentence was, quote(Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?) End quote.

My mistake, I was under the impression you had asked me a question. Which I fully answered. I told you I do not own a business. So how is it I didn't answer your questions?

Not once did I say the business owners, (aren't they the same as employers?), & wealthy are doing anything wrong. Are the Republican's doing anything wrong????......you can bet on it.

You haven't told me what kind of business you own. I'm going to assume you don't even pay minimum wage, no insurance for the employees, and, your employees prob. hate working for you. I only know you on KP, and I know I'd hate working for you. So lucky for me I don't have to. If things are going so badly for you, why don't you sell the business and do something else? I believe I said, and I quote, (No, we don't own a business. Personally I don't know why anyone would want the headache that goes with owning a business. But that's just me. And yes....we like the union.)

And as for this statement..... (Oh, and to you, Nussa, I don't normally respond to you and it is you who repeatedly states you ignore me, so who's latched onto whom? Rhetorical question ...[/quote])
By the way, it's my option to choose to answer rhetorical questions.
You called me out.....So suck it up if you don't like the answers you got..... :thumbup:

I answered your questions, and you just didn't like them. 
P.S. You really shot yourself in the foot on this one..... :mrgreen:



knitpresentgifts said:


> As I assumed; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered, only ignored, my question. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge nor the right to tell anyone how to run a business, spend their money or pay their employees so stop trying and complaining.
> 
> Oh, and to you, Nussa, I don't normally respond to you and it is you who repeatedly states you ignore me, so who's latched onto whom? Rhetorical question ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, here are some good points on the whole subject of Republican actions re Obamacare:



> *Its hard to remember a time when a major political party and its media arm were so actively rooting for fellow Americans to lose.* When the first attempt by the United States to launch a satellite into orbit, in 1957, ended in disaster, did Democrats start to cheer, and unify to stop a space program in its infancy? Or, when Medicare got off to a confusing start, did Republicans of the mid-1960s wrap their entire political future around a campaign to deny government-run health care to the elderly?
> 
> Of course not. But *for the entirety of the Obama era, Republicans have consistently been cheerleaders for failure. *They rooted for the economic recovery to sputter, for gas prices to spike, the job market to crater, the rescue of the American automobile industry to fall apart.
> 
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You are a very mean person. I did not bother because anything I write will be disrespected by you. I will not read your posts any more because as I said before, you are not a nice person.


 :thumbup: Yep, you got that correct.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They are negative, do not listen, racist, twist what is said around, and plain crazy. Not reading their posts again. So, I hope they don't waste their time.
> 
> Thanks KPG. Appreciate your support.


I stopped reading most of the posts in this thread, today, did read some, reminded myself why I stopped reading the LNJ's posts, and will ignore most of them again. :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> KPG- Your opening sentence was, quote(Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?) End quote.
> 
> My mistake, I was under the impression you had asked me a question. Which I fully answered. I told you I do not own a business. So how is it I didn't answer your questions?


Are you all there? I asked if you owned your own buz; and IF not, why not, PERIOD. You ranted on and on telling me stuff that I did not ask nor care to know. Your prerogative and lack of comprehension and inability to answer a simple question. Thankfully, your problems, not mine.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, here are some good points on the whole subject of Republican actions re Obamacare:


 :thumbup: Bravo!


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> As I suspected; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered my question of why not. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. *Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done. *
> 
> snip


What a bunch of hooey.

And a ridiculous bit of dodgy logic that somehow captures people no matter how faulty it is or how lacking in plain ole common sense.

You don't have to know how to cook a dish yourself to know it doesn't taste right when it's brought to your table. You don't have to know how to fix an air conditioning system to know it's not working. You don't have to know how to do ANYthing in order to be able to see ways in which something isn't working properly or could be improved.

As for running a business, that doesn't necessarily give you any more expertise than just that: your business. In fact, it could just as easily limit your understanding of the broader business world.

and this: *Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done. *

Is just breathtakingly insulting. Beneath you, IMO.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I think you need to check your facts. How do you know that I haven't checked..............Oh wait, the Obamacare website doesn't work. But to switch insurance companies would mean I would a longer drive and new doctors and hospitals.
> 
> I used the phrase my Religious Freedom was being violated. Just because I do not have the same beliefs regarding abortion and the morning after pill does not make me less religious or companionate than pro abortionists. I have been consistent with my beliefs regarding non emergency abortions and the Morning After Pill . Just because I do not believe in abortion does not mean I am less empathetic than you.
> 
> It appears that you are not empathetic towards someone that does not hold your beliefs


Do your religious beliefs include how we as a society treat the poor, the less fortunate, the inequality in our economy? Have you read the pope's latest words on these subjects? Do you search your conscience on any issues besides abortion and contraception?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitry said:


> What a bunch of hooey.
> 
> And a ridiculous bit of dodgy logic that somehow captures people no matter how faulty it is or how lacking in plain ole common sense.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you all there? I asked if you owned your own buz; and IF not, why not, PERIOD. You ranted on and on telling me stuff that I did not ask nor care to know. Your prerogative and lack of comprehension and inability to answer a simple question. Thankfully, your problems, not mine.


What in God's name is so wonderful about those who own a business? Because a person has or hasn't a desire to own a business is totally meaningless to me. You act as though it's something wonderful, patriotic, and coveted. Are we supposed to admire a person who owns a business more than somebody who has a job or career? What kind of nonsense is that?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I didn't misunderstand anything. I told you the whole story....now just try to make something of it. It's like I said, you don't like what you read. A successful person who made good, having started at the bottom.

Let me re-post the answer to the specific part of the question you asked. (No, we don't own a business. Personally I don't know why anyone would want the headache that goes with owning a business. But that's just me. And yes....we like the union.) That answer goes perfectly with the question you asked. I just figured I'd add the rest so you'd know how I got where I am today. You didn't have to read it if you didn't want to.....Couldn't help yourself could you?....lol.

You just can't stand that someone has made good, and it sounds like it isn't you, or you wouldn't be continually badgering me all the time.

If you don't want to talk to me....then don't. But all these posts you keep making to or about me, are going to get responses, whether you like it or not......

You're just mad because not only did I answer your question, I trumped you. Trumped means....(They're saying "I've got the better of you" or "I've won". This comes from the card game Bridge, where one suit is named the Trump suit. ) :thumbup:



knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you all there? I asked if you owned your own buz; and IF not, why not, PERIOD. You ranted on and on telling me stuff that I did not ask nor care to know. Your prerogative and lack of comprehension and inability to answer a simple question.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Go ahead KPG...she asked you a question....answer it.......you wouldn't want to be rude. But be careful not to answer it to fully......some people get mad at you if you do that....... :roll:


alcameron said:


> What in God's name is so wonderful about those who own a business? Because a person has or hasn't a desire to own a business is totally meaningless to me. You act as though it's something wonderful, patriotic, and coveted. Are we supposed to admire a person who owns a business more than somebody who has a job or career? What kind of nonsense is that?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You haven't told me what kind of business you own. I'm going to assume you don't even pay minimum wage, no insurance for the employees, and, your employees prob. hate working for you.


She sells crafts, I believe, and based on what I've seen the employees are definitely family: her ten toes (they make the goods) and her bum (it tackles the keyboard).


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Oh, Good God. Why don't you understand.


I don't "understand" because what you spout -- and apparently actually believe -- is nonsense, contradicted by the well-documented facts. Nothin' to understand UNLESS I want to become as willingly deluded as you.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, you never know.......she might get rich that way....... :XD: Or not....... :?: 
Now I'm also glad I'm not her family.....family usually get paid even less...than regular employees.


susanmos2000 said:


> She sells crafts, I believe, and based on what I've seen the employees are definitely family: her ten toes (they make the goods) and her bum (it tackles the keyboard).


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, you never know.......she might get rich that way....... :XD: Or not....... :?:


Perhaps in a different industry? Someone who types with her fanny might make a real human interest story. Maybe there could be a reality TV show featuring those computer literate butt cheeks.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Janeway, you are forgetting that this is an open and international forum, anyone, anywhere can, and do contribute. American politics have international ramifications. And NO, I am not being a racist. I am NOT commenting on or slamming you because of your racial background. I am taking you to task for your continual nasty comments. You are always telling other posters that "they are the most hated and hatedul person on this site". You can dish the dirt but cannot take it when someone responds in kind. Your continual whine that other posters are only slamming you because of your ethnic background is pure rubbish.
> 
> Stop being nasty; stop being disrespectful, especially towards your President and stop the continual whining. If you wish other posters to show you respect, then you must show respect. Stop your own racial abuse of others. Your comments regarding Hispanics and Afro Americans can only be termed racial vilification.
> 
> ...


You are totally wrong as the Lefties on this thread are always hateful to me. Susan2000 told Yarnie to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy her seizure. They constantly tell KPG that she lies about the truth. MIB (Seattle) writes nasty remarks to everyone especially me & was reported by dozens of people for what she said to DonnieK & call "her" a man! AW started a thread about me because it thought she was someone else! She also was very hateful.

I'm on oxygen & they tell me to stop stepping on my hose. They also continually call me dumb & stupid.

I'm tired of all of the Lefties telling all of us that we are not Christians.

Then they say I'm not American Native Indian constantly.

I'm only dishing out what they dish to me, but you are telling me to "grow" up!

Leave me alone as you don't understand how mean those Lefties are to anyone that is not a Democrat!

In the past, I voted for the man/woman, not parties but NO more!

Why don't you go back & read what really has happened on this thread?

I only wrote the truth about people of a different races, but still you condemn me! Yet you mentioned my race!

There are people here who are biracial & only think my race is not important & tease me about "fire water" & Bull feathers! Talk about racism!

Now, you are telling me how to think & to take all of the criticism without returning in kind.

I'm not giving America a bad name Obo has done that for all of us. He is not my president. People from other countries don't have to live with what Obo has done to us, but we do so our politics are none of their business! Why aren't they active in their politics & leave us alone.

You should knit something instead of telling me "what" I should write. I will be judged by God not you or anyone else.

I am mature & probably older than you so again you are judging me!

Have a wonderful life, but leave me alone!

PS. Go to the top of this 104 & read what Nussa & Susan2000 said then condemn them. I'll bet you won't write anything nasty to them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Many have talked about no jobs being created. One thing I have not seen mentioned is the regulations that employers have to follow to hire someone.
> 
> First the hourly wage is just a part of the cost. There is Social Security and Medicare tax (7 1/2%). Then Unemployment tax (10%) and Workman's Comp (?%)
> 
> ...


Running one's own business has never been easy--nor should it be. Employees' lives are in the owner's hands, and those who don't want that responsibility are free to go work for those who do.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> A higher minimum wage will do nothing for the unemployed. Raising the minimum wage is inadequate for the larger challenge of reducing poverty. It doesn't do anything to get workers into more skilled positions or administrative jobs, which will actually pay the higher wages and provide benefits. It is only a short term
> "fix" which will show up in higher prices to cover employer's costs. It will ultimately keep them in the exact place they are now.
> 
> More effort should be put into bringing back the good paying jobs (manufacturing) and not into fighting over increasing pay for entry level positions and part time work. This is not good for our country.


I have not yet read the posts after this post so please forgive me if someone else has raised this point already. Forgive the typos, ipad playing up.

Bring back good paying jobs (manufacturing). I believe this would involve killing 'free trade' agreements between nations, raising tarrifs. I cannot write about Walmarts as we do not have a Walmart store here, but go into any store and select some items. Now check the label to see where they are manufactured. A third world country? Workers in sweat shops toiling away for lengthy hours for a pittance to manufacture the goods you are buying? Who is making the profit here? certainly not the workers. Yes, of course the shop owners who are making the profits from the sweat of others, benefitting from the cheap labour. How much profit do the retailers make from those items, the selling price is how many times the purchasing price????

Of course you have empty factories everywhere, all the manufacturing jobs have gone off shore, and who does that benefit? Certainly not the workers who have lost their jobs. certainly not the workers in third world countries. Ah the big retail giants who benefit from the low wages paid to those workers, yes.

Where is your automotive industry now. The big plants are idle and derelict, the former workers are dependant on welfare. The automotive companies are receiving handouts from the government. Where is that money going, who is benefitting? The CEOs are benefitting, that is who, not the workers.

Why have all the manufacturing jobs gone offshore?????? Yes, to benefit the big companies who make even more profits because of the low pay theworkers receive.

Now, if they could just herd the good old American working men and women into sweat shops and pay them a pittance, why they could continue to make huge profits from the sweat of the workers. plus they will have the 'feel good' response that they are creating jobs for those poor and hungry working people. And we must not forget the children, send them back down the mines, back into the factories, that will mean lower wages and of course it will benefit the poor families. All members of the family will be working to increase the manufacturers profits.

It will be back to the good old days of the factory owner living in the mansion on the hill whilst the poor workers huddle wherever they can.

Go and read your Dickens again, or did you not study Dickens at school.

Drat and dang all those do gooders who fought to bring the children out of the factories out of the mines. Foo fiddley to all those who fought for the minimum wage, the 40 hour week. Why not go whole hog, bring back the slaves who will be forced to work for crumbs from the master's table. Even more profits for the rich.

The lower wages will not create more jobs they will only create more wealth for the wealthy. Come down from your ivory and open your eyes.

Remember the poor only have their labour to offer. As for the Walmart or Maccas workers bettering themselves and getting an education and then executive positions. How can they? They do not earn enough to go on to higher education, besides they are often so knackered working intheir labouring positions they do not have the energy to attend night school, if there are night school classes. Who will mind their children? Are you volunteering? Oh I forgot, they are not supposed to have children, are they?

One other thought that seems to have escaped you. Not everyone is capable of being a brain surgeon, a nuclear physicist, a company CEO. Many people are not capable of studying at university level. We need labourers more than we need CEOs.

The worker only has his labour to bring to the bargaining table.

Drat this ipad, every time I back space to correct a typo it posts my half completed rant, hence my several edited updates.

Lower profits for Walmart and other big business.......better pay for the workers.....more understanding and compassion from you. That is what is needed.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you all there? I asked if you owned your own buz; and IF not, why not, PERIOD. You ranted on and on telling me stuff that I did not ask nor care to know. Your prerogative and lack of comprehension and inability to answer a simple question. Thankfully, your problems, not mine.


Atta girl, give her back as she dishes out!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They are negative, do not listen, racist, twist what is said around, and plain crazy. Not reading their posts again. So, I hope they don't waste their time.
> 
> Thanks KPG. Appreciate your support.


Lucy, you have my support too, hugs!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What in God's name is so wonderful about those who own a business? Because a person has or hasn't a desire to own a business is totally meaningless to me. You act as though it's something wonderful, patriotic, and coveted. Are we supposed to admire a person who owns a business more than somebody who has a job or career? What kind of nonsense is that?


Need a cookie? This was not nice!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Running one's own business has never been easy--nor should it be. Employees' lives are in the owner's hands, and those who don't want that responsibility are free to go work for those who do.


 :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Yep, you got that correct.


We are friends!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree with your Peanuts cartoon poster Janeway.... :thumbup:


Janeway said:


> Lucy, you have my support too, hugs!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I agree with your Peanuts cartoon poster Janeway.... :thumbup:


Thanks!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Awe........my heart is so broken........NOT! ;-) 


Janeway said:


> Atta girl, give her back as she dishes out!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You're welcome.... :thumbup:


Janeway said:


> Thanks!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Talk about bigotry and hate--you set the standard, Janeway. I'd say 'Shame on you'--but of course conservatives have no shame where racism is concerned.


Oh, Susan, give me a break as you are continually mentioning my race. You are the biggest racist on this thread.

Remember what you said to Yarnie!

Why can't you ever be a nice lady?

Enjoy this:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> First......you obviously don't live anywhere near a reservation, nor must you have any in your state. In my state there are a plethora of reservations. They're in every corner of the state. And not a day goes by when there isn't a shooting, stabbing, rape, or some other violent act being committed there. By tribal law, the state isn't allowed to interfere in the way the NA community is being run. But believe me....the state is called in a lot because the reservations don't have the manpower to deal with there own rampant crime. So what race is committing a crime in your area depends on where you come from. Down south it might be more Hispanics committing crimes. Anywhere else, it's a melting pot of criminals.
> 
> And Janeway......the term is "BUTT OUT!" Not bud out....Just thought I'd help you in the proper use of your euphemism, as you have used it incorrectly on more than one occasion. :thumbup:


Thanks for the spelling lesson, but I have always heard it as "bud" out!

No, I have "never" lived on a reservation as my parents left before I was born, but you are only mentioning the American Native Indians as being the most violent! You only slightly mentioned Mexicans in the South.

What about all of the killings in Chicago or Detroit or maybe any large city. What race are they?

I did say pray for the B lady who was shot & fighting for her life, but "none" of you noticed so go back & read it!

This is a funny.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> AMEN! :thumbup:


You should talk!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> That was my point Jane, all races have problems with violence. As far as empathy you say you have, I don't believe I ever see it. People on the right always profess such Christian values, but then say such terrible things so I don't believe there are such great Christian values. As I have said before, whatever you give, that is what you get back. No, I do not want to change your political party. You definitely are a republican because of the things I mentioned in this post. You would be a poor fit in the democratic party.


Thanks as I won't ever be dumb enough to vote for a Democrat!

You don't read all of my posts or you would read my empathy for people.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> This comment is what I was talking about Jane. There was a story told about something that happened in New Delhi and you jump from that to your comment. That was totally out of line and then you act like you are being so mistreated. Wake up, do you really want to live the rest of your life that way. You can't be a very happy person.


Well, hello, any time I mention people of another race you are quick to call me a racist.

When I mentioned the violence in my city, you thought I was against the blacks & Mexicans--so how is this different from what Seattle MIB said?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for posting this very interesting piece of information. :thumbup: :thumbup:


Hi lovely lady! How are you today still full of food from the holiday!

This is what I want this year!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Show me your apology. If I missed it, I will definitely apologize right away.


If you missed it--too bad because it was here!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> There is that lack of empathy I was talking about. Group them all together, they are all illegal, having babies like rabbits, and no husbands. I don't know where you get your intelligence Jane, that you know all that, but I just have to ask, where's your proof?


I only know one of the border patrols who says they continue to cross the border 24/7. Not long ago, one of his best working buddies was shot & killed by one who was caught crossing the border, but he had a hand gun & killed him. It is a dangerous job as not only people cross the border, but most of the drugs are smuggled across the border.

You should read/TV news to know what is really going on around the Mexican/American border.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> VERY well put NJG!
> But I don't suppose she'll get it...... :-(


She is a very knowledgable person who you try to put her down constantly!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Since when did the word Amen become vulgar? 
Well, I don't seem to be the one filling the pages with all this crap. 
And if I did need anger management, which I don't, I have medical insurance, so I'm covered. But thanks for your concern. :wink: 


Janeway said:


> You should talk!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway You can dish it out but cannot take it.

"I'm tired of all of the Lefties telling all of us that we are not Christians."

You do not act like Christians, in fact you act in an unchristian manner.


"I'm only dishing out what they dish to me, but you are telling me to "grow" up!"

Yes you need to grow up and act as an adult.



"Why don't you go back & read what really has happened on this thread?"

I have and I have read your whining.

"I only wrote the truth about people of a different races, but still you condemn me! Yet you mentioned my race!"

I said I was not taking you to task because of your race. I did not post anything nasty about your race. You have posted very nasty comments about other people's race. At no time have I said you are whining, immature,metc because you are a member of a particular race. That is against the racial vilification laws we have here. But read your own posts and see how you have vilified the Hispanic people. That is racial vilification.

"There are people here who are biracial & only think my race is not important & tease me about "fire water" & Bull feathers! Talk about racism!"

I believe you started the bull feather statements, a long time ago in your posts. And how is the term firewater a racist term? I see no race being mentioned.

"Now, you are telling me how to think & to take all of the criticism without returning in kind."

That is what we are doing, returning your insults and slurs. As I said you can dish it out but not take it, can you?

"I'm not giving America a bad name Obo has done that for all of us. He is not my president. People from other countries don't have to live with what Obo has done to us, but we do so our politics are none of their business! Why aren't they active in their politics & leave us alone."

If you are living in the USA he IS your President. You may not have voted for him but he WAS elected twice.

America is a leading nation in the world, American politics affect the whole world. remember the old saying 'when America sneezes the rest of the world catches a cold'. perhaps you do not umderstandmthat.

"You should knit something instead of telling me "what" I should write. I will be judged by God not you or anyone else."

Your nasty postings will indeed be judged, not only by God but by everyone who reads them.

"I am mature & probably older than you so again you are judging me!"

No I believe I am older, I am 73 Years old. I judge you by your immature rantings and posting of pictures. I find you lacking in understanding, sympathy and tolerance.

I AM SHOUTING HERE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LISTENING? I AM NOT! REPEAT N O T COMMENTING ON YOUR RACE.

"Have a wonderful life, but leave me alone!"

If you want to be left alone then stop your immature rantings.

"PS. Go to the top of this 104 & read what Nussa & Susan2000 said then condemn them. I'll bet you won't write anything nasty to them."

Give it a rest, you have done this quote to death.

As they say, never argue with fools or idiots, they will always beat you over the head with their experience. How sad but true in your case.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Janeway You can dish it out but cannot take it.
> 
> "I'm tired of all of the Lefties telling all of us that we are not Christians."
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps in a different industry? Someone who types with her fanny might make a real human interest story. Maybe there could be a reality TV show featuring those computer literate butt cheeks.


Susan, you made me laugh. Did you know that the word 'fanny' has a totally different meaning here in Australia? Where you use the word 'fanny' we use the word 'bum'. To some here the word 'fanny' is a rude word.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Susan, you made me laugh. Did you know that the word 'fanny' has a totally different meaning here in Australia? Where you use the word 'fanny' we use the word 'bum'. To some here the word 'fanny' is a rude word.


Just looked up the Australian definition---heehee


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you for that, EveMCooke, You seem to be able to read people pretty well. Because you read soloweygirl like a book. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:



EveMCooke said:


> I have not yet read the posts after this post so please forgive me if someone else has raised this point already. Forgive the typos, ipad playing up.
> 
> Bring back good paying jobs (manufacturing). I believe this would involve killing 'free trade' agreements between nations, raising tarrifs. I cannot write about Walmarts as we do not have a Walmart store here, but go into any store and select some items. Now check the label to see where they are manufactured. A third world country? Workers in sweat shops toiling away for lengthy hours for a pittance to manufacture the goods you are buying? Who is making the profit here? certainly not the workers. Yes, of course the shop owners who are making the profits from the sweat of others, benefitting from the cheap labour. How much profit do the retailers make from those items, the selling price is how many times the purchasing price????
> 
> ...


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Somebody here needs to put away her crayons and coloring books and give them a rest!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, you never know.......she might get rich that way....... :XD: Or not....... :?:
> Now I'm also glad I'm not her family.....family usually get paid even less...than regular employees.


Why are you listening to Susan - she knows nothing about me or most things. I don't know your definition of 'rich' so I don't know if you consider me rich or not. Also, I, too, am glad you are not in my family. We don't suffer fools.

Finally, my employees are not family members.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It doesn't make any difference if Janeway is a Native American or not. I happen to think she's pretending she is an NA to get attention. However that's beside the point. The firewater remark is unacceptable. Sarcasm or racist remark, maybe we should all remember to insult each other in race-neutral language. The wild flinging around of insults isn't going to stop, there are many, many ways to insult someone, so let's drop the few words that could be or are outright racist insults. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do.

There are a few awfully sensitive people around here who find ANY insult to be racist. The fewer targets they have for their obsessive, knee-jerk attitudes, the better. They won't stop whining tht someone has made a racist remark,but it will be more obvious thaqt they are playing the race card.


Knitry said:


> If you are indeed Native American -- and there's apparently some dispute or confusion about that -- then that would be an inappropriate comment to/about you.
> 
> If you have not been honest -- or clear -- about your own heritage, I would see this as sarcasm. If BP is not sure about the veracity of your claims, the comment might be sarcasm reflecting on the confusion itself.
> 
> MY preference would be for this kind of remark to be avoided. Because of the confusion, I personally don't feel I can be as definitive about confronting it, but I am also not at all comfortable with it.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It doesn't make any difference if Janeway is a Native American or not. I happen to think she's pretending she is an NA to get attention. However that's beside the point. The firewater remark is unacceptable. Sarcasm or racist remark, maybe we should all remember to insult each other in race-neutral language. The wild flinging around of insults isn't going to stop, there are many, many ways to insult someone, so let's drop the few words that could be or are outright racist insults. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do.
> 
> There are a few awfully sensitive people around here who find ANY insult to be racist. The fewer targets they have for their obsessive, knee-jerk attitudes, the better. They won't stop whining tht someone has made a racist remark,but it will be more obvious thaqt they are playing the race card.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you listening to Susan - she knows nothing about me or most things. I don't know your definition of 'rich' so I don't know if you consider me rich or not. Also, I, too, am glad you are not in my family. We don't suffer fools.
> 
> Finally, my employees are not family members.


I do not suffer fools lightly, either. These people would be outcasts.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

How do people who have a strong moral compass or profess to be Christian, like so many on this thread do, respond to this?
From Robert Reich, economist, professor, public policy expert

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/republicans-obamacare-distraction_b_4326249.html

The moral imperative. Even a clunky compromise like the ACA between a national system of health insurance and a for-profit insurance market depends, fundamentally, on a social compact in which those who are healthier and richer are willing to help those who are sicker and poorer. Such a social compact defines a society.

The other day I heard a young man say he'd rather pay a penalty than buy health insurance under the Act because, in his words, "why should I pay for the sick and the old?" The answer is he has a responsibility to do so, as a member the same society they inhabit.

The Act also depends on richer people paying higher taxes to finance health insurance for lower-income people. Starting this year, a healthcare surtax of 3.8 percent is applied to capital gains and dividend income of individuals earning more than $200,000 and a nine-tenths of 1 percent healthcare tax to wages over $200,000 or couples over $250,000. Together, the two taxes will raise an estimated $317.7 billion over 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

Here again, the justification is plain: We are becoming a vastly unequal society in which most of the economic gains are going to the top. It's only just that those with higher incomes bear some responsibility for maintaining the health of Americans who are less fortunate.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Uh-huh. Frankly, I had a lot more sympathy for these folks before Black Friday. If Americans have time and money enough to camp out in front of the stores for the opportunity to blow thousands of dollars on gifts, they have the means to put some thought and effort into finding a health care plan that works for them. People need to get their priorities straight.


Maybe they have their priorities straight. The majority don't want Obamacare and by camping out for the Black Friday bargains they are sending the message that they will not enroll in it. Without enrollees, Obamacare can't survive. The majority's opinions and wants were ignored and the bill was passed. The majority's lack of interest in this bill will be its undoing.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> I am retired, sorry to burst your bubble. It doesn't surprise me at all that other people would protest at Walmart. It is that empathy thing again that you don't have. A lot of people have empathy for WalMart workers. And before you make a big deal about people being "paid to walk in protest" here is an explanation.
> 
> According to the NLRB memo, before last years Black Friday walkout, the Union advertised a $50 gift card to the first 700 employees who walked off the job on Black Friday. The NLRB noted a campaign e-mail which said Going on strike is never an easy decision. We are all barely getting by as it isthe first 700 Associates who sign up to strike will get a $50 gift card for us to use to buy groceries for our families. Rejecting a Wal-Mart allegation that the gift cards were illegal, the NLRB associate general counsel concluded that the offer did not restrain or coerce employees, but rather represented a non excessive strike benefit designed to reimburse employees for some of their lost wages if they struck, and was non discriminatory.


Actually, the protests at WalMart are about the unions, not the employees. It all comes down to money. The unions want to charge WalMart more than the market will pay. The unions want to get inside WalMart because of the money they will make and the fact that WalMart is keeping them out.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Living right here in Iowa, where have you been. I know you listen and believe what is on Fox news. Again, be specific, what has he done to break the law?


The ACA was passed. Since it has been passed Obama has authorized waivers for many businesses and groups. That is against the law. He has also issued postponements to the business mandate and again to the individual mandate. He CANNOT do this legally. He did this without the required authorization of Congress. He has broken the law. Obama has also attempted to fill positions within his administration without approval of the Senate. When he did this, the Senate was still in session. That was against the law. Is this specific enough for you? There is more, but you can do any further research.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I know rich is better than poor, just by definition. But I also know being comfortable in life, and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from is a blessing, and a lot of hard work. I don't know how other people run their lives. But I will tell you, that not once did I complain or blame others for the times my life was rough. Anything I did in my life was my responsibility. That's where you and I seem to differ. So far as I've seen, all you know how to do is put people down about their choices in life. How about your choices? Who made those for you? If you did, then you need to shut your cake hole and live with them. If you don't like them, change them. Don't sit around waiting for others to make it better for you. It seems you and your family business is doing poorly, which I assume is the case as you put down everyone who seems to know more than you do, or has more than you do. And as I said before, if you are in such dire straights with your "business" then maybe it's time to move on to something more lucrative. 
And as for that last bit...(Your quote(We don't suffer fools)....you seem to SUFFER.....a LOT!


knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you listening to Susan - she knows nothing about me or most things. I don't know your definition of 'rich' so I don't know if you consider me rich or not. Also, I, too, am glad you are not in my family. We don't suffer fools.
> 
> Finally, my employees are not family members.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The ACA was passed. Since it has been passed Obama has authorized waivers for many businesses and groups. That is against the law. He has also issued postponements to the business mandate and again to the individual mandate. He CANNOT do this legally. He did this without the required authorization of Congress. He has broken the law. Obama has also attempted to fill positions within his administration without approval of the Senate. When he did this, the Senate was still in session. That was against the law. Is this specific enough for you? There is more, but you can do any further research.


Solo,
They won't be satisfied.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> As I suspected; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered my question of why not. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge nor the right to tell anyone how to run a business, spend their money or pay their employees so stop trying same and complaining.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Be realistic. If they put every politician in jail who broke the law, then all the Republicans would be in jail for the stunt they pulled during their unsuccessful take over/shut down our government. So be all, OMG President Obama is breaking the law! I will repeat what I said before. What goes around comes around. Well, the Republican's are getting what they've got coming to them. They shouldn't have dished it out if they weren't prepared to take it....But then they were so sure of themselves, but the smirk was wiped off their faces when they failed. 


Lukelucy said:


> Solo,
> They won't be satisfied.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Many have talked about no jobs being created. One thing I have not seen mentioned is the regulations that employers have to follow to hire someone.
> 
> First the hourly wage is just a part of the cost. There is Social Security and Medicare tax (7 1/2%). Then Unemployment tax (10%) and Workman's Comp (?%)
> 
> ...


All this hits the small businesses and mom and pop enterprises particularly hard. They work on very limited budgets and are basically pushed into limbo waiting for the information.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Maybe they have their priorities straight. The majority don't want Obamacare and by camping out for the Black Friday bargains they are sending the message that they will not enroll in it. Without enrollees, Obamacare can't survive. The majority's opinions and wants were ignored and the bill was passed. The majority's lack of interest in this bill will be its undoing.


Camping out for Black Friday bargains has nothing to do with having one's priorities straight. Those campers' priorities are in the toilet and all they're showing the rest of us is just how greedy they are. They aren't protesting buying health insurance through the ACA, they're worshipping their favorite god, Greed. While they're wasting their time being skinned on Black Friday, they aren't even aware that the ACA exists. They're thinking about buying the latest Playstation and whatever other stuff their children won't shut up about wanting for Christmas. Some of them are thinking about buying a bunch of some popular item and selling them on eBay to make some money. That's just greed plus exploitation.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, several chain stores started their "Black Fridays" on Thanksgiving Day. This is a great idea because people will go shopping while thry're still brain dead from those big Thanksgiving dinners they ate. The retailers are obsessively greedy because they're in business to make money in the first place, and they are desperate to make as much as possible these days when people don't have as much discretionary income to throw around. As reported on all the news programs around here, many stores put inflated prices on their good so the discounts aren't anywhere near as big as customers think they are, if there is even any discount at all.

I stayed put on Thursday and Friday. I refuse to participate in the Black Friday nonsense. Anyway, there will be even better prices on many items as Christmas gets closer and I thought it was better to work on shawl number two that's a Christmas gift instead of putting myself in the position to get trampled for some trinket. In a little while I'm heading out to Bed, Bath and Beyond to return a microwave oven I bought a couple of months ago that stopped working a few days ago. Coincidentally, my old electric can opener died yesterday, so BB&B will get some of the money they're going to give me on the microwave refund to pay for a new can opener, and I will also wander around the store looking for other things I might like to buy.

BB&B will benefit from their generous refund policy because I will spend more than I get for that refund. Not only that, but I got a 20% off coupon in the mail last week which will be in my purse while I'm at BB&B. Sounds to me that they know how to get customers and get them to spend a little more freely than they might otherwise.

You are welcome to keep your illusion that Black Friday and the ACA are connected in any way. just keep in mind you're wrong.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, I know rich is better than poor, just by definition. But I also know being comfortable in life, and not having to worry about where your next meal is coming from is a blessing, and a lot of hard work. I don't know how other people run their lives. But I will tell you, that not once did I complain or blame others for the times my life was rough. Anything I did in my life was my responsibility. That's where you and I seem to differ. So far as I've seen, all you know how to do is put people down about their choices in life. How about your choices? Who made those for you? If you did, then you need to shut your cake hole and live with them. If you don't like them, change them. Don't sit around waiting for others to make it better for you. It seems you and your family business is doing poorly, which I assume is the case as you put down everyone who seems to know more than you do, or has more than you do. And as I said before, if you are in such dire straights with your "business" then maybe it's time to move on to something more lucrative.
> And as for that last bit...(Your quote(We don't suffer fools)....you seem to SUFFER.....a LOT!


I have no idea where you think you got your info on me because ALL of it is completely wrong. I'm extremely fortunate to live a blessed life and have only expressed that same sentiment. I've never complained about my life and take full responsibility for every part of it. My life is prosperous and my family and businesses are thriving; I'm sorry that is not to your liking nor your understanding. You are obsessed to know about me yet it is none of your business (and you don't have one either). I'm sorry that you are unable to speak with gratitude and appreciation for the blessings in your life. "You get what you deserve," seems to apply.

I am not interested in debate nor discussing my life with you. I'm here to discuss the topic of Obamacare with intelligent beings; again, not willing to suffer fools such as you.

Good Day.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Maybe they have their priorities straight. The majority don't want Obamacare and by camping out for the Black Friday bargains they are sending the message that they will not enroll in it. Without enrollees, Obamacare can't survive. The majority's opinions and wants were ignored and the bill was passed. The majority's lack of interest in this bill will be its undoing.


 :thumbup: It already is - thankfully!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The only right individuals have is* Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.*
> 
> No one has the right of health insurance or health care.
> 
> ...


In my opinion, you are rationalizing to fit your views into what Christ teaches. Your view reeks of selfishness. You act as though all the ills of society are due to personal choice. They are not. We have responsibility for the less fortunate. I suggest you search your conscience.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I have no idea where you think you got your info on me because ALL of it is completely wrong. I'm extremely fortunate to live a blessed life and have only expressed that same sentiment. I've never complained about my life and take full responsibility for every part of it. My life is prosperous and my family and businesses are thriving; I'm sorry that is not to your liking nor your understanding. You are obsessed to know about me yet it is none of your business (and you don't have one either). I'm sorry that you are unable to speak with gratitude and appreciation for the blessings in your life. "You get what you deserve," seems to apply.
> 
> I am not interested in debate nor discussing my life with you. I'm here to discuss the topic of Obamacare with intelligent beings; again, not willing to suffer fools such as you.
> 
> Good Day.


Every single person who disagrees with you about anything is called a fool by you. Try a little humility, my dear.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


They are both miserable people who complain about how everyone but them run their businesses, yet neither of them could even think of doing the same. They only are only able to insult and tell everyone else how to act and behave. Complete nut jobs with no experience, skills or understanding of what they do not know.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
________________
A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!

Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Let's see, health insurance supports life by helping people stay healthy. Healthy people have fewer constraints on their liberty because they are healthy enough to oppose that which may rob them of their liberty. Healthy people can also pursue happiness with more energy.

I'm ever so bored to learn that you don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. Are all those people whose health insurance you imagine you are paying for smoking, drinking and taking drugs? I highly doubt it. I think your imagination is working overtime to give you an excuse to forget we are all responsible for those who need our help.


joeysomma said:


> The only right individuals have is* Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.*
> 
> No one has the right of health insurance or health care.
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Camping out for Black Friday bargains has nothing to do with having one's priorities straight. Those campers' priorities are in the toilet and all they're showing the rest of us is just how greedy they are. They aren't protesting buying health insurance through the ACA, they're worshipping their favorite god, Greed. While they're wasting their time being skinned on Black Friday, they aren't even aware that the ACA exists. They're thinking about buying the latest Playstation and whatever other stuff their children won't shut up about wanting for Christmas. Some of them are thinking about buying a bunch of some popular item and selling them on eBay to make some money. That's just greed plus exploitation.
> 
> Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, several chain stores started their "Black Fridays" on Thanksgiving Day. This is a great idea because people will go shopping while thry're still brain dead from those big Thanksgiving dinners they ate. The retailers are obsessively greedy because they're in business to make money in the first place, and they are desperate to make as much as possible these days when people don't have as much discretionary income to throw around. As reported on all the news programs around here, many stores put inflated prices on their good so the discounts aren't anywhere near as big as customers think they are, if there is even any discount at all.
> 
> ...


I was being sarcastic, which apparently went right over your head.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Let's see, health insurance supports life by helping people stay healthy. Healthy people have fewer constraints on their liberty because they are healthy enough to oppose that which may rob them of their liberty. Healthy people can also pursue happiness with more energy.
> 
> I'm ever so bored to learn that you don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. Are all those people whose health insurance you imagine you are paying for smoking, drinking and taking drugs? I highly doubt it. I think your imagination is working overtime to give you an excuse to forget we are all responsible for those who need our help.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh boy.....I get to answer a specific question..... :lol:
> 
> First off. I don't have to tell you anything. But I'd be proud to.
> 
> ...


Ok KPG, I can tell you my story too. 
I grew up on a farm, a small farm of 120 acres. My mother worked in town as a cook and waitress and then during early winter making Christmas wreaths and other decorations, so she had 2 outside jobs besides the farm and being a wife and Mom. My parents worked very hard to see that my sister and I had what we needed and I did the same for my girls. My husband and I got married as soon as I graduated from high school. He was an electrician, working for someone else, but wanted to start his own business. He did do some work on the side so was working toward that. My oldest daughter was born in 1968. She was 2 and I was pregnant with my second daughter when my husband was killed in a car accident. I received social security benefits for the girls and for myself too so I could be home and take care of them when they were little, later giving up mine and going to work. Both girls went to college on scholarships and loans taken out by them and myself, all paid off. My oldest daughter has her own commercial art business in her home, a home she purchased after college. My younger daughter is married, has 2 small children and also has a home based business. Her husband, an investment broker is also working toward his own business and will open an office in January. 
I retired in 2011 and worked my entire life except when I took time off to be with my daughters when they were little. I was a waitress, a house mother at the Iowa Braille School and in the optical field as an optician. 
Now lets hear your story KPG.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
> ________________
> A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


So? The jerk who started two wars and lied to Congress and the citizens of,the USA shall be honored for standing in khaki pants and a plaid shirt? You sure love the word "fool." You just don't know,where to use it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thanks as I won't ever be dumb enough to vote for a Democrat!
> 
> You don't read all of my posts or you would read my empathy for people.


You say you have empathy for people and then turn around and say awful things about other people. Kind of proves that the empathy isn't there.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

And we care about this because.....?



momeee said:


> Ratings Disaster: MSNBC & CNN Bleed Numbers so Badly, Time to Call a Paramedic
> Kyle Becker On November 29, 2013
> 
> The ratings are in  and you three fans of MSNBC are going to be extremely disappointed. As for you airport managers, you might want to look into cutting CNN 24/7, your trapped customers are not happy about a news network as popular as the TSA.
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, hello, any time I mention people of another race you are quick to call me a racist.
> 
> When I mentioned the violence in my city, you thought I was against the blacks & Mexicans--so how is this different from what Seattle MIB said?


You will continue to make excuses for your self, never see that you have done or said anything wrong. It always some one else that has offended you or said something wrong to you.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> If you missed it--too bad because it was here!


I missed it because you didn't do it.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> I noticed you did not mention Blacks as in my city, at a Thanksgiving dinner, 2 people were stabbed & one shot. At another gathering, three B teens was shot. A black lady was just talking to another woman, when a B. man walked up to her & shot her 2 X's in the chest--she is fighting for her life! Pray for her recovery as she has 2 children under the age of 5 years.
> 
> Police shot & killed a White man while trying to serve a warrant when he pulled a gun on the police.
> 
> ...


Tongue in cheek, oh nevermind. A simpleton never understands.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Not nice what you are saying about me as I could say the same about all of the Lefties on this thread!


Raspberries !


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> You are a Racist about the New Delhi Indians!


No, you are.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually Janie, I'm beginning to understand why you tried to cover up your Native American heritage when you joined the site. Given all the bigoted and racist things the conservatives say here about African-Americans and Latinos, you had every right to expect that they would slam you as well.


Exactly!!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes we are responsible, but by our choice, not by the government forcing us to do it. Obamacare is a force by government.
> 
> I support charities of *my* choosing. Then I will support with food, clothes, hand made items toys, etc. very seldom money. I can make my money go much farther than giving it to charity. A friend's brother went to the Philippines after the typhoon. Diaper flannel (more than 100 yards) I provided filled a very large suitcase that he took with him. It was overweight but the airline exempted him from fees since it was for helping people there. How far would $50 dollars go in providing aid. This was fabric I had purchased many years ago specifically for an orphanage in the Philippines. It was just waiting for the time for it to go there.


You have to realize that enough of us cannot do enough. You don't have to list your charitable works. Many of us do everything we can. You aren't getting the magnitude of the problem. Being opposed to government helping WE THE PEOPLE says something about you. Now that we know how you really feel about the government helping those less fortunate, I understand your brand of Christianity. You aren't understanding that individuals can't possibly do enough. And you aren't understanding the meaning of the gospel message and the concept of what it means to be responsible to our society. Not with that attitude. I'm sorry for you.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> I don't care if "any" of you Lefties on this thread believe me or not! I could collect a monthly check from the government & am thinking seriously about applying as I am full blooded Apache so eat your heart out!


Ok, do it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I only know one of the border patrols who says they continue to cross the border 24/7. Not long ago, one of his best working buddies was shot & killed by one who was caught crossing the border, but he had a hand gun & killed him. It is a dangerous job as not only people cross the border, but most of the drugs are smuggled across the border.
> 
> You should read/TV news to know what is really going on around the Mexican/American border.


This happened in February.

Friend on border sez 300 ppl coming across his property every night. And Napolitano sez border is under control? Cornyn wrote on his Twitter account, referring to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.

Cornyn aides have declined for several days to identity the senators friend or his location or provide any other substantiation. The senator has more than 37,000 followers on the social media service, and dozens have helped spread the comment.

Such a border hot spot would see nearly 110,000 crossings per year, nearly a third of the number of people caught last year by federal agents along the entire 2,000-mile border.

Officials at the U.S. Customs and Border Protection and its parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security, declined to comment on Cornyns assertion or discuss how authorities would respond if they knew about a hot spot of the sort described.

I think Cornyn and a lot of people on this forum say thinks as if they are the truth but can't back it up because they exaggerate everything to make it look worse for the President or to make their point. If there really was a place where 300 illegals were coming across every night it is time to put up or shut up.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Your words are absolutely untrue! You are a bully concerning my race. You, the most disgusting Lefty accuse people of the very things you do constantly.
> 
> Eat your heart out as we were here first & will always be among the people so get used to it--leave me alone.


What is the Leave me alone? This is a public site. You obviously don't own the site.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Be realistic. If they put every politician in jail who broke the law, then all the Republicans would be in jail for the stunt they pulled during their unsuccessful take over/shut down our government. So be all, OMG President Obama is breaking the law! I will repeat what I said before. What goes around comes around. Well, the Republican's are getting what they've got coming to them. They shouldn't have dished it out if they weren't prepared to take it....But then they were so sure of themselves, but the smirk was wiped off their faces when they failed.


Be realistic. How can the government possibly take care of everyone's health care. Trying to pull "the stunt" of doing that will cause this country to degrade itself into something you would never wish for.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> No one is "banging" my head against very thick walls. As I have said many, many times, our politics are "none" of your business so take care of your "own" country! So bud out!


Bud out? You'll bloom into pretty flowers.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Judge not or you shall be judged! Our Lord God will judge us not you!


Coming from a judgemental person.....priceless!!!


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Janeway, you are forgetting that this is an open and international forum, anyone, anywhere can, and do contribute. American politics have international ramifications. And NO, I am not being a racist. I am NOT commenting on or slamming you because of your racial background. I am taking you to task for your continual nasty comments. You are always telling other posters that "they are the most hated and hatedul person on this site". You can dish the dirt but cannot take it when someone responds in kind. Your continual whine that other posters are only slamming you because of your ethnic background is pure rubbish.
> 
> Stop being nasty; stop being disrespectful, especially towards your President and stop the continual whining. If you wish other posters to show you respect, then you must show respect. Stop your own racial abuse of others. Your comments regarding Hispanics and Afro Americans can only be termed racial vilification.
> 
> ...


Exactly. And others here continue to refute her blatherings.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Nussa said:


> So Janeway.....throwing babies our into the streets now are you??? Shame!


She also wrote that ALL crossing border Mexicans are illegal. How would she know that?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Stop slamming me about my race as I will report you to Admin as I'm sick of all you Lefties about the way you condemn my race!
> 
> Knit something as here are the directions what part of the lamb you should select from!


Learn how to read. It's your attitude. With so many fake reports you send, you'll probably be reprimanded.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Don't you care that this is happening to people? Don't you care about them?


It's a fake story.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Read. I am not your resource center - you do the work.


You can't name one thing in detail. What a failure.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Translation: LL can't come up with anything. This is the same gal who wanted a bomb dropped on Obama's head. What the heck is wrong with her?


It fell on her head. It's not screwed on straight.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> As I suspected; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered my question of why not. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge nor the right to tell anyone how to run a business, spend their money or pay their employees so stop trying same and complaining.
> 
> ...


You seem to think because you own a business, which of course anyone can say I own a business and therefor I am smart, makes you special. Well, if you really own a business, you may be smart about that particular business, and notice I said may be, but it means nothing about the rest of the world. Talk about bragging about yourself, no one does that more than you do, so you just prove your own insecurity. You said it. 
I do not, nor will I ever ask your permission to speak. I will say what I want, when I want and you have no right to tell me I don't have the knowledge, because your knowledge is very doubtful.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

You have well earned bragging rights for sure!



Nussa said:


> Oh boy.....I get to answer a specific question..... :lol:
> 
> First off. I don't have to tell you anything. But I'd be proud to.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Go back and read again. It's there.



knitpresentgifts said:


> As I suspected; neither you nor NJG have ever owned your own business, and neither you nor NJG answered my question of why not. Yet, both you and NJG continue to harp on how all Republs, Conservatives, employers, business owners and the wealthy are all doing it wrong. Seems they do and have done a lot more for both of you and others than either of you have done.
> 
> You do not have the knowledge nor the right to tell anyone how to run a business, spend their money or pay their employees so stop trying same and complaining.
> 
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> She sells crafts, I believe, and based on what I've seen the employees are definitely family: her ten toes (they make the goods) and her bum (it tackles the keyboard).


Well if she sells crafts I wonder how much she rips off the people who make the crafts for her to sell. She is on the computer too much to have time to make them all herself.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> You are a very mean person. I did not bother because anything I write will be disrespected by you. I will not read your posts any more because as I said before, you are not a nice person.


Gee, everyone is so upset....NOT.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD: :thumbup: I don't read her posts at all, but am happy to give you a thumbs up to whatever you said against whatever she attempted to explain to you!


You are a simpleton.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> They are negative, do not listen, racist, twist what is said around, and plain crazy. Not reading their posts again. So, I hope they don't waste their time.
> 
> Thanks KPG. Appreciate your support.


You just wrote about yourself.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> She sells crafts, I believe, and based on what I've seen the employees are definitely family: her ten toes (they make the goods) and her bum (it tackles the keyboard).


I heard she plays bingo everyday and that's her biz.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Is that all?



Janeway said:


> You are totally wrong as the Lefties on this thread are always hateful to me. Susan2000 told Yarnie to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy her seizure. They constantly tell KPG that she lies about the truth. MIB (Seattle) writes nasty remarks to everyone especially me & was reported by dozens of people for what she said to DonnieK & call "her" a man! AW started a thread about me because it thought she was someone else! She also was very hateful.
> 
> I'm on oxygen & they tell me to stop stepping on my hose. They also continually call me dumb & stupid.
> 
> ...


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps in a different industry? Someone who types with her fanny might make a real human interest story. Maybe there could be a reality TV show featuring those computer literate butt cheeks.


I wonder how many WPM she types. :twisted:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I'm surprised that you would give thumbs to her garbage! You & I have different politics, but have remained friends or so I thought.

I could have agreed with my friends about what they say about you, but I never did.

Have a good day!


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Tell it like it is! But I'm sure the dunces will pounce on this.
I feel your pain with tablets. Mine is Android. I'm forced to post my reply at the top. Sometimes when I backspace the whole reply is erased. If I wanted to use a smiley it would be way at the bottom. Here I'll post one.



EveMCooke said:


> I have not yet read the posts after this post so please forgive me if someone else has raised this point already. Forgive the typos, ipad playing up.
> 
> Bring back good paying jobs (manufacturing). I believe this would involve killing 'free trade' agreements between nations, raising tarrifs. I cannot write about Walmarts as we do not have a Walmart store here, but go into any store and select some items. Now check the label to see where they are manufactured. A third world country? Workers in sweat shops toiling away for lengthy hours for a pittance to manufacture the goods you are buying? Who is making the profit here? certainly not the workers. Yes, of course the shop owners who are making the profits from the sweat of others, benefitting from the cheap labour. How much profit do the retailers make from those items, the selling price is how many times the purchasing price????
> 
> ...


 :-D


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Need a cookie? This was not nice!


You are a simpleton. Read my mind.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Oh, Susan, give me a break as you are continually mentioning my race. You are the biggest racist on this thread.
> 
> Remember what you said to Yarnie!
> 
> ...


You, my dear simpleton, do not know what a racist is. You are racist by writing derogatory things about races.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Don't believe this for one minute. Your sites about Walmart are wrong as they are made up by Walmart haters!

You have not mentioned Target, Kmart or Sears or other big box stores. Why?

Kmart filed for bankruptcy got out of their debts, then with borrowed money & bought Sears. What a crock! I don't shop at those 2 stores.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> You are a simpleton. Read my mind.


Wow, do you think your opinion concerning me is important?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> You, my dear simpleton, do not know what a racist is. You are racist by writing derogatory things about races.


What about others here who continually say I'm not Indian? Of course you don't care.

I told what was on the news in my city as they also indicated the race.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Susan, you made me laugh. Did you know that the word 'fanny' has a totally different meaning here in Australia? Where you use the word 'fanny' we use the word 'bum'. To some here the word 'fanny' is a rude word.


Yikes!!!! I just looked it up.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Tell it like it is! But I'm sure the dunces will pounce on this.
> I feel your pain with tablets. Mine is Android. I'm forced to post my reply at the top. Sometimes when I backspace the whole reply is erased. If I wanted to use a smiley it would be way at the bottom. Here I'll post one.
> 
> :-D


Why don't you buy an IPAD? That is what I use & just bought 4 IPAD's for my 4 grands at Walmart!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Translation: LL can't come up with anything. This is the same gal who wanted a bomb dropped on Obama's head. What the heck is wrong with her?


You were the one who told Yarnie to put a pencil between her teeth & enjoy her seizure. So what is wrong with you? Where is your concern for your fellow woman who has a medical problem?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have not yet read the posts after this post so please forgive me if someone else has raised this point already. Forgive the typos, ipad playing up.
> 
> Bring back good paying jobs (manufacturing). I believe this would involve killing 'free trade' agreements between nations, raising tarrifs. I cannot write about Walmarts as we do not have a Walmart store here, but go into any store and select some items. Now check the label to see where they are manufactured. A third world country? Workers in sweat shops toiling away for lengthy hours for a pittance to manufacture the goods you are buying? Who is making the profit here? certainly not the workers. Yes, of course the shop owners who are making the profits from the sweat of others, benefitting from the cheap labour. How much profit do the retailers make from those items, the selling price is how many times the purchasing price????
> 
> ...


You are right Eve. The inequality in this country has gotten out of control.
Thank God our automotive industry has come back quite a bit because of the bail out the government gave, the one the republicans were against, but our President did anyway.

DETROIT, May 24 (Reuters) - Chrysler Group LLC was set on Tuesday to repay $7.5 billion in U.S. and Canadian government loans from its 2009 federal bailout, a move that will allow the U.S. automaker to distance itself from an unpopular bailout and deepen its ties with Italian automaker Fiat SpA (FIA.MI).

Under the original terms, Chrysler had until 2017 to repay the debt.
Sergio Marchionne, the chief executive of Fiat and Chrysler, is scheduled to appear at a Chrysler assembly plant in Sterling heights, Michigan, Tuesday afternoon to express thank to the governments for their financial support. Also at the event will be Ron Bloom, the Obama administration's point man on auto restructuring, and General Holiefield, head of the United Auto Workers union's Chrysler department.

The jobs were saved, the economy was helped, and the government gets repaid ahead of schedule. GM too is earning healthy profits again, allowing the government to divest itself of its GM stock. So: everybody wins.

It doesn't seem to have been polled in a while, but back in 2009 the auto bailout was extremely unpopular. But it's hard to imagine that Republicans are going to want to talk much about how they preferred to see Chrysler and GM liquidated. Nevertheless, if you forced them to, I'm sure they could come up with reasons why the turnaround in the industry proves nothing, and the bailout was still a bad idea.

Manufacturing jobs have gone off shore so the CEO'S can pay less to have their product made and put more money in their pocket. They would love it if there were no minimum wage. Michelle Bachman, our dingbat republican from Minnesota, said unemployment would be wiped out if there were no minimum wage. So what doesn't make sense about that? If the minimum wage is 7.25 and the employers could pay what they want to pay, what do you suppose they would do.? Would they raise that 7.25 or lower it? If 7.25 isn't a living wage what do you suppose someone could do on 5.00?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> :thumbup: Bravo!


I'm proud you at least got a GED after obviously quitting school.

So why are you angry most of the time?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You posted to me.....(Why are you listening to Susan - she knows nothing about me or most things. I don't know your definition of 'rich' so I don't know if you consider me rich or not. Also, I, too, am glad you are not in my family. We don't suffer fools.) Finally, my employees are not family members.

Sweetie, if you can't take it, don't post it.... :lol:



knitpresentgifts said:


> I have no idea where you think you got your info on me because ALL of it is completely wrong. I'm extremely fortunate to live a blessed life and have only expressed that same sentiment. I've never complained about my life and take full responsibility for every part of it. My life is prosperous and my family and businesses are thriving; I'm sorry that is not to your liking nor your understanding. You are obsessed to know about me yet it is none of your business (and you don't have one either). I'm sorry that you are unable to speak with gratitude and appreciation for the blessings in your life. "You get what you deserve," seems to apply.
> 
> I am not interested in debate nor discussing my life with you. I'm here to discuss the topic of Obamacare with intelligent beings; again, not willing to suffer fools such as you.
> 
> Good Day.


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Why don't you buy an IPAD? That is what I use & just bought 4 IPAD's for my 4 grands at Walmart!


I replied before and she wrote about her ipad acting up. I can post at the bottom, since your message here doesn't fill the white box. I don't have problems on other sites.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Actually, the protests at WalMart are about the unions, not the employees. It all comes down to money. The unions want to charge WalMart more than the market will pay. The unions want to get inside WalMart because of the money they will make and the fact that WalMart is keeping them out.


The employees want to be paid a living wage. That is what the protest is about.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The only right individuals have is* Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.*
> 
> No one has the right of health insurance or health care.
> 
> ...


Because we are a Christian society and we all live in this nation together. We care about our fellow Americans, or at least some of us do.

If you saw someone who has no insurance laying in the street, almost dead, do you believe we should all just walk on by. 
I would suggest you pray every day that you never need help from others, cause they may say no.
Republicans have been good at that lately, voting no to relief for hurricane Sandy, but then holding their hand out when their state gets hit with something. Here comes my favorite word for republicans again--hypocrite.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
> ________________
> A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


Sure that was probably another email like the one where someone was outraged because President Obama had propped his feet up on the desk in the oval office, oh how awful. Well all you had to do was google Bush with his feet up on the desk and there was his picture with his feet up on the desk in the oval office. I won't give your pictures the time of day, except to say how low are you willing to go to slam your president? Looks like you have no limits.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> So? The jerk who started two wars and lied to Congress and the citizens of,the USA shall be honored for standing in khaki pants and a plaid shirt? You sure love the word "fool." You just don't know,where to use it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sour grapes soloweygirl.....sour grapes...... 


soloweygirl said:


> Obama did break the law, so why isn't he in jail? He did it and is using the Republicans as his excuse, as are you. He wasn't forced into giving all of the waivers nor the postponements for Obamacare, he did that on his own. Wake up and see what is happening.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Somebody here needs to put away her crayons and coloring books and give them a rest!!


This shows what I did all afternoon cutting them out of scraps.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Jokim said:


> LL, the leftists do care about people, themselves! The ones they profess to help are actually hurt the most by their policies. They make people dependent on gov't for existence, an existence without hope and without change.


The liberals would be more than happy to give you the shirt off someone else's back.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You would call an ambulance and the police and he would be taken to the ER and be taken care of, and when I would go to the same hospital for some reason, part of my payment would pay for part of his. Just like it is now.
> 
> Do you think if he had health insurance he would know enough to go to a doctor? Not if he is laying on the street almost dead. I'm afraid just having a piece of paper that says health insurance will not make him go to the doctor when he needs to go.
> 
> You think that with everyone(?) having health insurance, that the trips to the ER will be reduced? For those on Medicaid, they will continue to go to the ER for every little sniffle just like they do now. It is so easy to do and it costs them nothing! Until they have to pay for some part of it, they will continue to go to the ER.


And 20% of a million dollars is still a lot of money.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Janeway said:


> This shows what I did all afternoon cutting them out of scraps.


Very nice, Janeway


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You sure are grasping at straws....Now we're down to criticizing presidential props????
Yep....you've run out of anything useful to say, not that I found much you have said so far to be useful.... :roll:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
> ________________
> A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Yes we are responsible, but by our choice, not by the government forcing us to do it. Obamacare is a force by government.
> 
> I support charities of *my* choosing. Then I will support with food, clothes, hand made items, toys, etc. very seldom money. I can make my money go much farther than giving it to charity. A friend's brother went to the Philippines after the typhoon. Diaper flannel (more than 100 yards) I provided filled a very large suitcase that he took with him. It was overweight but the airline exempted him from fees since it was for helping people there. How far would $50 dollars go in providing aid. This was fabric I had purchased many years ago specifically for an orphanage in the Philippines. It was just waiting for the time for it to go there.
> 
> And I did pay no more than $.50 a yard for the fabric


Your post is not about helping charities or the needy, it is a boast about your good deeds. It is also a boast that you are a better financial manager than the charities.

I know you are going to slam me for my comments but I am still going to voice them.

Unfortunately, it is money that the charities need, not just our old clothes, the toys our children no longer play with and items you had fun knitting, sewing and crocheting. They need money to help poor people buy fresh food, specific items of clothing, ie school clothes, work clothes, and more importantly they need the money to pay the bills - including the bills incurred in running the charities. The staff running the charities do not all work as volunteers., some of them receive a salary, hence money is needed to pay the salaries.

It was commendable that your friend's brother took the diaper flannel to the Phillapines and I will say it was a charitable act. Just one queation though. It was a large bolt of fabric and the Phillapines infrastructure is in a mess. Who is going to make the diapers and where and how. This labour would be very difficult to perform when there is no guaranteed electricity supply or building lying empty where they can perform this cutting and sewing. The people do not have houses to sleep in, sewing diapers would not be thefirst thing on their minds. They do not have enough drinking water so washing would be a problem. I would think that disposable nappies, or diapers, would have been a better option.

I see it as a reinforcement of your arrogant statement that 'you can make money go further than by giving it to charity.' If you honestly believe you can manage finances better than these charitable institutions then why are you not offering your financial expertise? No, I think it was just another example of unloading some of your unwanted tatm to the charity and then boasting about your good deed. You said you purchased the material many years ago. If that is true why had you not given it to the orphanage. People do not buy something to give to an orphanage and then horde it for several years. And you boasted about how cheaply you purchased the material. No, you bought a bargain, never used it and now boast of your good deed in donating it to the needy.

The charities are saying not to donate clothes etc but to send money. They are on the spot, they know what is needed most, they are in a better position than you to decide.

I repeat......they need money not just your old and unwanted tat.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> Because we are a Christian society and we all live in this nation together. We care about our fellow Americans, or at least some of us do.
> 
> If you saw someone who has no insurance laying in the street, almost dead, do you believe we should all just walk on by.
> I would suggest you pray every day that you never need help from others, cause they may say no.
> Republicans have been good at that lately, voting no to relief for hurricane Sandy, but then holding their hand out when their state gets hit with something. Here comes my favorite word for republicans again--hypocrite.


If you care for people by all means find a deserving person and pay their medical bills. You know put your money where your mouth is. That sorta thing.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Well if she sells crafts I wonder how much she rips off the people who make the crafts for her to sell. She is on the computer too much to have time to make them all herself.


I have seen her sewing house that is detached from her house & it is very well organized with an excellent cutting/sewing area & yes, she does sew then all. You must hunt & peck in order to type!

In high school, I averaged 92 words a minute for 10 minutes on a Non electric typewriter! I'm not that fast today. My oldest daughter beat me with 102 WPM for 10 minutes on an electric typewriter!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


What part of my statement are you having difficulty comprehending.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Janeway Do you do the bow ties with 5 squares or do you cut the 5 pieces, 4 corner pentagons and the center square?
> 
> The 5 equal squares is so much easier.


Yes to the 5 squares as it is only how it is folded to make the raised bow-knot. They all are 4 1/2" squares including the center.

I don't enjoy pentagons!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Very nice, Janeway


Thanks as I will rearrange the colors before sewing them together.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It had nothing to do with my statement.


Are you saying that with insurance people won't have any medical bills to pay?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> The employees want to be paid a living wage. That is what the protest is about.


But then why are the unions paying non employees to protest under the guise that they are Walmart employees. Shouldn't the union be paying union workers?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I have seen her sewing house that is detached from her house & it is very well organized with an excellent cutting/sewing area & yes, she does sew then all. You must hunt & peck in order to type!
> 
> In high school, I averaged 92 words a minute for 10 minutes on a Non electric typewriter! I'm not that fast today. My oldest daughter beat me with 102 WPM for 10 minutes on an electric typewriter!


You can be proud of your typing ability and the high wpm you achieved.

I earned my living as a secretary way back in the 1950s and I know what speed the typists attained. 92 wpm on a non electric typewriter is very, very high, especially for a school girl. When I was working I did attain 80wpm on a manual typewriter and this was considered very high. Shorthand speeds were 80 wpm 100 wpm and a good stenographer reached 120wpm or even 150wpm. These speeds were used by court stenographers or Hansard reporters. Most people dictating a letter, a memo, etc do not speak at a high rate all the time , not if they want to be understood.

When the electric typewriter were introduced, followed by the electronic typewriters, the typing speeds did increase, in fact they doubled. But you cannot compare speeds obtained on an electric typewriter with speeds attained on a manual typewriter. Speeds on the electric typewriter started at around 120wpm and some typists attained speeds of 150wpm. I had no need to test my speed on an electric or electronic typewriter, speed was not the important criteria, as a secretary my position involved many many other tasks.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Don't believe this for one minute. Your sites about Walmart are wrong as they are made up by Walmart haters!
> 
> You have not mentioned Target, Kmart or Sears or other big box stores. Why?
> 
> Kmart filed for bankruptcy got out of their debts, then with borrowed money & bought Sears. What a crock! I don't shop at those 2 stores.


Walmart is in the news right now because they are one of the largest businesses taking advantage of people at the moment, but it includes any business that exploits its employees with low pay and lack of healthcare. All the while they are doing this they are making record profits. It is corporate greed and the sad thing is, it is on the increase.


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## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

Everything is OK with our ACA. I received a notice from my HMO yesterday regarding my medicine supply. Two of my my main Rxs that have an $8 co-pay in 2013 will be $95 in 2014.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You would call an ambulance and the police and he would be taken to the ER and be taken care of, and when I would go to the same hospital for some reason, part of my payment would pay for part of his. Just like it is now.
> 
> Do you think if he had health insurance he would know enough to go to a doctor? Not if he is laying on the street almost dead. I'm afraid just having a piece of paper that says health insurance will not make him go to the doctor when he needs to go.
> 
> You think that with everyone(?) having health insurance, that the trips to the ER will be reduced? For those on Medicaid, they will continue to go to the ER for every little sniffle just like they do now. It is so easy to do and it costs them nothing! Until they have to pay for some part of it, they will continue to go to the ER.


So people on medicaid will continue to go to the ER for every little sniffle? 
There you go looking down your nose at others again. Be careful you don't fall off that perch you sit on. Someday you may find yourself in need. There but for the grace of God go I.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> It's a fake story.


No, it is not a fake story.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do your religious beliefs include how we as a society treat the poor, the less fortunate, the inequality in our economy? Have you read the pope's latest words on these subjects? Do you search your conscience on any issues besides abortion and contraception?


The question was how did Obamacare harm me. I said that my Religious Rights are being violated. Aborting a child (not to save the life of the mother) and forcing me to pay for it is a violation of my rights. The other topics, though vital, are separate issues from the topic of Obamacare's harm which was being discussed. Again, the topic was that my Religious Freedom was violated and not the topic of economics, other than the increase of people's premiums or cancellation of their policy.

I do understand that you feel a need to change the topic rather than staying on topic because you can not negate my statement. The Obamacare's website is a continued train wreck. Can you imagine if Amazon could only handle such a small group of people, the site is not secure and riddled with security problems, and it has no way to pay for what you want to buy?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Enjoy this:


Janeway, that does look good. I'll have to try it. Here's a recipe I especially love -- it's got a caramel-like flavor to it:

banana or 2/3 large banana
1 granny smith apple, quartered (and cored) or other tart apple, tho sweet apples can be substituted but it makes it pretty sweet 
Good dash of cinnamon to taste
Dash of nutmeg to taste
2 T almond butter
handful of fresh spinach leaves (or other greens) -- you never taste them!
1 C or more almond milk -- or coconut or other non-dairy milk

Blend. Drink and enjoy.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I do see a lot of people criticizing me for not giving money for charity, but I do not see that any of them are saying they do anything for charity. Pot calling the Kettle Black!


Or being modest. Not everyone shouts their good deeds from the roof top, some prefer to keep their light hidden and just go quietly about their good deeds. Boasting can be seen as pride, and pride comes before a fall.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Your post is not about helping charities or the needy, it is a boast about your good deeds. It is also a boast that you are a better financial manager than the charities.
> 
> I know you are going to slam me for my comments but I am still going to voice them.
> 
> ...


That reminds me of Romney after hurricane Sandy asking for donations instead of money. The Red Cross then has to find a place to store and then distribute the stuff that is donated which at that point in time they didn't have, but Romney never thought to ask what they needed. Then on top of that when people came to the donation point, the Romney campaign gave them the item to donate, not that these people wouldn't have donated a case of water or whatever, but they weren't prepared. It was a better photo op if they had something so Romney furnished it. Why do Republicans always do those kind of dumb things? Also Paul Ryan pretending to do dishes at a kitchen where the homeless came to eat. The dishes were already done so he washed clean dishes.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I do see a lot of people criticizing me for not giving money for charity, but I do not see that any of them are saying they do anything for charity. Pot calling the Kettle Black!


I do not know if you do or do not give money to charity, that is your business. With this economy, I can't imagine any of us have that kind of money. But what is more interesting is that the libs believe you are only charitable if you give money to people. It is always about people giving their money to someone else, who may not deserve or truly need it. But like Obamacare, I guess Obama and the libs will determine if your giving is substandard or not. Wonder if there will be a law that forces people to donate money to others on top of the large amount of taxes we pay. Personally, the giving of my time is more valuable, but they only want money.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It doesn't make any difference if Janeway is a Native American or not. I happen to think she's pretending she is an NA to get attention. However that's beside the point. *The firewater remark is unacceptable. Sarcasm or racist remark, maybe we should all remember to insult each other in race-neutral language. *The wild flinging around of insults isn't going to stop, there are many, many ways to insult someone, so let's drop the few words that could be or are outright racist insults. Seems like it would be pretty easy to do.
> 
> There are a few awfully sensitive people around here who find ANY insult to be racist. The fewer targets they have for their obsessive, knee-jerk attitudes, the better. They won't stop whining tht someone has made a racist remark,but it will be more obvious thaqt they are playing the race card.


Thank you very much.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I have seen her sewing house that is detached from her house & it is very well organized with an excellent cutting/sewing area & yes, she does sew then all. You must hunt & peck in order to type!
> 
> In high school, I averaged 92 words a minute for 10 minutes on a Non electric typewriter! I'm not that fast today. My oldest daughter beat me with 102 WPM for 10 minutes on an electric typewriter!


Jane you are confused again. How did I get brought into this conversation? Sews them all, all what? What are you talking about I hunt and peck when typing? How did my typing get into the conversation and I could care less how fast you type. I think you are commenting on the wrong person again.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder if they are being paid union scale. Probably minimum wage, if that much.
> 
> They are probably being called independent contractors, and paid so much for the day, not hourly.


They are receiving a $50 gift card, so no not union scale.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Yes to the 5 squares as it is only how it is folded to make the raised bow-knot. They all are 4 1/2" squares including the center.
> 
> I don't enjoy pentagons!


How about pentagrams? :twisted:


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Do you read other people's med records to see if they meet with your approval?



lovethelake said:


> The question was how did Obamacare harm me. I said that my Religious Rights are being violated. Aborting a child (not to save the life of the mother) and forcing me to pay for it is a violation of my rights. The other topics, though vital, are separate issues from the topic of Obamacare's harm which was being discussed. Again, the topic was that my Religious Freedom was violated and not the topic of economics, other than the increase of people's premiums or cancellation of their policy.
> 
> I do understand that you feel a need to change the topic rather than staying on topic because you can not negate my statement. The Obamacare's website is a continued train wreck. Can you imagine if Amazon could only handle such a small group of people, the site is not secure and riddled with security problems, and it has no way to pay for what you want to buy?


----------



## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

NJG said:


> That reminds me of Romney after hurricane Sandy asking for donations instead of money. The Red Cross then has to find a place to store and then distribute the stuff that is donated which at that point in time they didn't have, but Romney never thought to ask what they needed. Then on top of that when people came to the donation point, the Romney campaign gave them the item to donate, not that these people wouldn't have donated a case of water or whatever, but they weren't prepared. It was a better photo op if they had something so Romney furnished it. Why do Republicans always do those kind of dumb things? Also Paul Ryan pretending to do dishes at a kitchen where the homeless came to eat. The dishes were already done so he washed clean dishes.


Yup, the top 1% -- clueless.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I do see a lot of people criticizing me for not giving money for charity, but I do not see that any of them are saying they do anything for charity. Pot calling the Kettle Black!


Do we really have to list our charitable acts? Really?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No one has the right of health insurance or health care.
> 
> *I agree with the young man that said "why should I pay for the sick and the old?" He should be responsible for himself and no one else*, unless he chooses to do so. The purchase of insurance is to protect oneself from unforeseen circumstances.


I hate to break this to you, but ANYone who buys insurance of ANY kind is helping pay for those others who are in the plan (or among the company's other insureds) who end up needing it before or (from the insurance company's standpoint, hopefully) INSTEAD of you. The IDEAL -- again, from the insurance company's standpoint - is for you to pay for many, many years and never, ever need the insurance. In the case of life insurance, the goal is to have you pay far more in premiums because you live a long time than you will ever reap in benefits.

So you and the young man in question should NEVER buy any type of insurance. Never. It's against your principles because YOUR premiums are going to pay for others' benefits, whether that's healthcare insurance, life insurance, home owner's or renter's insurance, auto insurance, you name it.

ACA is no different. The very self-same private insurance companies are hoping -- and planning, thanks to their stables of actuarial accountants -- that individuals as a group will need far less in benefit dollars than they pay into the plans.

So the selfishness and greed inherent in that sentiment doesn't work in the capitalist INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

As for whether people have a 'right" to access to healthcare, the growing belief (or understanding, I would say) is that yes, we do. We absolutely do "just because," but I will add this: If corporations have the "right" to befoul our air, water, soils and general environment, and create "foods" that make us ill instead of support our health, all of which our government (which is the only entity that can do it) refuses to fully protect us from, we darned sure DO have a right to unfettered access to healthcare.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I hate to break this to you, but ANYone who buys insurance of ANY kind is helping pay for those others who are in the plan (or among the company's other insureds) who end up needing it before or (from the insurance company's standpoint, hopefully) INSTEAD of you. The IDEAL -- again, from the insurance company's standpoint - is for you to pay for many, many years and never, ever need the insurance. In the case of life insurance, the goal is to have you pay far more in premiums because you live a long time than you will ever reap in benefits.
> 
> So you and the young man in question should NEVER buy any type of insurance. Never. It's against your principles because YOUR premiums are going to pay for others' benefits, whether that's healthcare insurance, life insurance, home owner's or renter's insurance, auto insurance, you name it.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
> ________________
> A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


That's easily one of the pettiest complaints I've ever seen about any president. And one that's fairly easy to shoot down or poke holes in as well.

For one thing, we don't know that there IS a teleprompter there or what purpose those black boxes serve. They may belong to the school. In fact, we don't know the purpose of his appearance -- he's in a suit. Is that pomposity? Or is that because the occasion, whatever it is, demands that rather than the ultra-casual dress of George W. Bush? If so, probably the lectern + Presidential Seal were also in order, maybe even requested. Maybe the speech is some official function and being broadcast to a much wider audience. I think it's safe to say from the trappings you criticize that the clues are that it's far more than a simple afternoon with a small handful of children at one single school.

Look. I myself am NOT a huge Obama fan. He's done things I don't know if I can ever forgive him for let alone understand. But Jesus H. Christ, people, if you don't want us accusing you of "Obama Derangement Syndrome" -- where everything the man does, no matter how small, is criticized to the max. then exercise a little restraint about the garbage you post.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Be realistic. How can the government possibly take care of everyone's health care. Trying to pull "the stunt" of doing that will cause this country to degrade itself into something you would never wish for.


The government isn't (at least at this point) going to "take care of everyone's health care."

The private insurers are, just as they have been, along with expanded Medicaid in those states where they've exercised that option.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> The question was how did Obamacare harm me. I said that my Religious Rights are being violated. Aborting a child (not to save the life of the mother) and forcing me to pay for it is a violation of my rights. The other topics, though vital, are separate issues from the topic of Obamacare's harm which was being discussed. Again, the topic was that my Religious Freedom was violated and not the topic of economics, other than the increase of people's premiums or cancellation of their policy.


Well, get the heck over it. The government continues to trample on MY religious rights by spending MY taxpayer money on needless wars, and on multi-million dollar farm subsidies to Republicans who vote to slash food stamps out of the ag budget. And on drones and the militarization of our law enforcement organizations, and on domestic spying and huge database storage facilities in Utah, etc., etc., etc.

YOUR religious rights aren't any darned better than mine. So when YOU start giving a darn about MY religious rights, I'll start caring about yours.



> I do understand that you feel a need to change the topic rather than staying on topic because you can not negate my statement. The Obamacare's website is a continued train wreck. Can you imagine if Amazon could only handle such a small group of people, the site is not secure and riddled with security problems, and it has no way to pay for what you want to buy?


As a matter of fact, the Obamacare website is perking along just fine. Sorry, but it's true:



> *W.H.: Obamacare site now works for 'vast majority'
> The bottom line: HealthCare.gov on Dec. 1st is night and day from where it was on Oct. 1st, Jeff Zients, the management expert steering the repair mission, told reporters Sunday morning.
> 
> The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services says it has repaired more than 400 items on its punch list of bugs and needed fixes. The agency also said it reduced response times from 8 seconds in late October to less than 1 second and error rates are under 1 percent.
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Apparently, you need to practice that sarcasm thing. You don't know how to do it very well.


soloweygirl said:


> I was being sarcastic, which apparently went right over your head.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I hate to break this to you, but ANYone who buys insurance of ANY kind is helping pay for those others who are in the plan (or among the company's other insureds) who end up needing it before or (from the insurance company's standpoint, hopefully) INSTEAD of you. The IDEAL -- again, from the insurance company's standpoint - is for you to pay for many, many years and never, ever need the insurance. In the case of life insurance, the goal is to have you pay far more in premiums because you live a long time than you will ever reap in benefits.
> 
> So you and the young man in question should NEVER buy any type of insurance. Never. It's against your principles because YOUR premiums are going to pay for others' benefits, whether that's healthcare insurance, life insurance, home owner's or renter's insurance, auto insurance, you name it.
> 
> ...


So you are paying others fire, life, car, and flood insurance too? Aren't there high risk pools for poor drivers. Aren't the flood insurance rates higher for those in a flood plain. Don't people who live farther from the hydrant pay more for fire insurance. Don't smokers and other who have severe illnesses pay more for life insurance. Just wondering how you came to your conclusions?

BTW shouldn't adequate shelter and decent food be rights also. They may actually decrease the need for expensive health care. How about that?

Ya know we tried this same socialist way of living in the 60's. We called them communes. If memory serves me, they didn't do so well.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Sorry edited previous post and got a double post.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> So you are paying others fire, life, car, and flood insurance too? Aren't there high risk pools for poor drivers. * there is not a high risk pool, the insurance companies instead charge more for those with high risk behavior which is not "born in". For instance my husband works with developmentally disabled people and should one have the ability to drive they don't charge based on that disability. I am disabled and the don't charge me more. The high risk with car insurance is based, mostly, on irresponsible actions. Some things may be based on age, ect, but again it is based on the actions of that age group that have been shown a higher percentage of irresponsible behavior. But it is all pooled together, the insurance will used money from those who are not high risk to pay out a high risk claim that is greater than they anticipated. * Aren't the flood insurance rates higher for those in a flood plain. * Again, this is something predictable. Health care just isn't * Don't people who live farther from the hydrant pay more for fire insurance. * No, according to my husband who volunteered for firefighting for 10 years (and was an explorer before that) it is based in your town's ISO (insurance service organization) rating. Hydrants are a standard length apart, based on a national standard. * Don't smokers and other who have severe illnesses pay more for life insurance. * this actually is an optional thing, you don't need it to survive. Health insurance..... Not so much * Just wondering how you came to your conclusions?
> 
> BTW shouldn't adequate shelter and decent food be rights also. They may actually decrease the need for expensive health care. How about that?
> * some of us do believe they are rights, hence our work to make enough affordable housing (like George Lucas did with his personally owned ranch while he owned it, not just selling it to a developer, and financially backing it). This is why some of us don't want department of housing and urbane government resources cut any more. This is why many also work with Habitat for Humanity (think Jimmy Carter). This is why many of us support homeless shelters.
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I hadn't heard about unions paying non Walmart workers to strike....could you possibly post that site? Thank you.


lovethelake said:


> But then why are the unions paying non employees to protest under the guise that they are Walmart employees. Shouldn't the union be paying union workers?


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry, have you heard of the bill John Lewis is proposing? It's a way for "conscientious objectors" to the war can have their taxes put into other places not supporting the war. I doubt it will get anywhere, but I would love it if it did!

http://johnlewis.house.gov/issue/civil-rights-and-civil-liberties/religious-freedom-peace-fact-sheet


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

All you seem to have here is PROBABLY. Which amounts to a lot of nothing. Why do you two always have to play the IF game? 
You don't even know if it's true? I have seen no proof that it is. I've asked someone to post the site they found this supposed (Union's paying non-Walmart workers to strike), and am waiting for that post. 
And if Anyone is interested:

http://www.salon.com/2013/11/19/wal_mart_could_pay_every_us_employee_14_89_just_by_not_buying_its_own_stock/

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/11/29/over-110-arrested-while-engaging-in-civil-disobedience-at-walmart-stores-on-black-friday/



joeysomma said:


> I wonder if they are being paid union scale. Probably minimum wage, if that much.
> 
> They are probably being called independent contractors, and paid so much for the day, not hourly.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knitry said to me:
Well, get the heck over it. The government continues to trample on MY religious rights by spending MY taxpayer money on needless wars, and on multi-million dollar farm subsidies to Republicans who vote to slash food stamps out of the ag budget. And on drones and the militarization of our law enforcement organizations, and on domestic spying and huge database storage facilities in Utah, etc., etc., etc.

YOUR religious rights aren't any darned better than mine. So when YOU start giving a darn about MY religious rights, I'll start caring about yours. 
==================================


Though I can empathize with many of you concerns and beliefs, the question was asked how Obamacare harmed me personally and specifically. So that was the question I answered.

As to your religious beliefs about war and the way the president chooses to protect our country, that is a separate topic. As to farm subsidies, Republicans are not the sole recipients of them (and I will admit that I have very mixed feelings about that topic that I need to look at in the future). Slashing food stamps, can't blame just Republicans either and the food stamp program is expanding. NSA spying is horrific, but I guess Obama is still looking into it. IRS overstepping its powers is as horrific, but I guess that is still being looked into.

I know of no company that would accept as part of their business plan, that having a website work 80% of the time successful. I know of no company that would accept the lack of security as the Obamacare website has. I know of no company that would not have programmed a way to pay the insurance companies a part of their website, and that it isn't even developed yet. That website is a disaster, chugging along to it's next train wreck destination. But what upsets me the most is how the Obamcultists refuse to admit how broken that site is. Who in their right mind would pay someone to build them a home and accept that only 80% of it is done as a completed project and it did not pass inspection to boot?

No my religious beliefs are not better than yours. But Constitutionally at this time, mine are being violated and are being dealt with in the courts. If you feel so strongly about your beliefs, maybe there is an organization legally fighting for your beliefs that you should support.


----------



## Angela W (Aug 31, 2011)

What religious freedom(s) have you lost? I want to know please


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> One more time, the only reason to buy insurance is for the individual's protection, if something unforeseen happens. If it also helps pay for someone else's problem, so be it. But you do not buy insurance to help someone else.


Why should anyone buy insurance to help someone else. I am disgusted with Obama and his policies. Shame on him for turning America into a non-democratic country.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why should anyone buy insurance to help someone else. I am disgusted with Obama and his policies. Shame on him for turning America into a non-democratic country.


I have no doubt that the disgust is mutual. The pig-pigheadedness, ignorance, and bigotry of American conservatives makes me wonder sometimes how we as a nation have managed to survive to the 21st century. You and your ilk regret (understatement of the year--you'd rather Obama be killed than simply wait out the time until 2016) that he's your President--I'm sure he's far from pleased to have to represent folks like you.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Janeway, that does look good. I'll have to try it. Here's a recipe I especially love -- it's got a caramel-like flavor to it:
> 
> banana or 2/3 large banana
> 1 granny smith apple, quartered (and cored) or other tart apple, tho sweet apples can be substituted but it makes it pretty sweet
> ...


Thanks as I will try this. My fav this time of year is eggnog.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I have no doubt that the disgust is mutual. The pig-pigheadedness, ignorance, and bigotry of American conservatives makes me wonder sometimes how we as a nation have managed to survive to the 21st century. You and your ilk regret (understatement of the year--you'd rather Obama be killed than simply wait out the time until 2016) that he's your President--I'm sure he's far from pleased to have to represent folks like you.


Susan, O is not my president & never will be as he is the most disgusting man ever! Shame on you for name calling as you are doing the same thing you accuse us of doing!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> If you care for people by all means find a deserving person and pay their medical bills. You know put your money where your mouth is. That sorta thing.


Thanks for your input--very true!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The ones I give to are run by volunteers and they provide clothes or whatever to anyone that may need them free of charge. Other than the clothes that are available anytime. They collect dishes, kitchen articles bedding or anything that would be needed to start over after a fire. And they say charity begins at home so I prefer to do more local.
> 
> So I'll leave the money giving to you since they need it so bad and I'll keep doing what I am doing. I don't have that kind of money to be giving it.
> 
> So what if a hospital in the middle of Africa is in need of bandages and no amount of money can buy them in that area? What if the only way they can get them is if someone here in the USA rips up old cotton sheets and rolls them to send to that African Hospital? What good is money? I will use my money to send the bandages after I have collected the old sheets , roll bandages, and packaged them. Sometimes money does not cover the need!


Joey, you are wonderful person for doing what you can afford to Charity. Don't let Eva tell you anything as I'm sure she does "nothing" for the natives in her country or elsewhere!

Before becoming into some money, the only things I could donate besides clothing, was home grown veggies from our garden. The food pantry & people really enjoyed the food.

We also had red raspberries & they were a huge hit!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Or being modest. Not everyone shouts their good deeds from the roof top, some prefer to keep their light hidden and just go quietly about their good deeds. Boasting can be seen as pride, and pride comes before a fall.


Now, I understand, you don't give anything to charity so you say it is boasting! Please knit something as here are the parts of a lamb & give the finished product to charity.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Jane you are confused again. How did I get brought into this conversation? Sews them all, all what? What are you talking about I hunt and peck when typing? How did my typing get into the conversation and I could care less how fast you type. I think you are commenting on the wrong person again.


I replied to your remarks about KGP?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> How about pentagrams? :twisted:


Those either as squares are easier to sew for charity. Sometimes I do sew triangles.

Hope I can find the pictures if 2 quilts that were given to charity. The material is donated to our local Y so that determines how they evolve into the design.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why should anyone buy insurance to help someone else. I am disgusted with Obama and his policies. Shame on him for turning America into a non-democratic country.


Thank you for encapsulating in one simple sentence the reason I am so against you and your kind.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you for encapsulating in one simple sentence the reason I am so against you and your kind.


Not nice! Do you really think we care what you think? Go pay for insurance for a needy person in your own country!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Thank you very much.


You don't really know the truth about Seattle MIB. She is one of the most hateful people on KP. She sent DonnieK a very mean PM & Donnie posted it for all to read.

Even her own people on here, criticize her. She continually slams my race.

She had an abortion because it was not convenient to have a child. She quit high school & ran away with an older man who she never married. Then "said she married a man who had 5 children, but today none of those children contact her. She is divorced today & lives off the system & her mom.

She lives with her mother & moved the woman from Seattle to an unsafe area of LA. She says her brother visits often in both places but I doubt that. She is the one who wants sympathy!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Apparently, you need to practice that sarcasm thing. You don't know how to do it very well.


Of course you are innocent about your sarcasm concerning everything your small mind cannot comprehend!

Don't slam me about my race again or I will file a complaint about you to Admin. Why is my race any of your business?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Angela W said:


> What religious freedom(s) have you lost? I want to know please


The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.

O I trying to to the same thing to us today my fording his Muslim religion down our throats! He want to do away with In God We Trust or anything with God/Jesus.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

OMG......I can't believe you have re posted that garbage. I have never seen MIB say anything that was worse than you have. As a matter of fact, what you have posted right here about her terminating a pregnancy is reprehensible. First off, it's none or your damn business. It is up to each woman to choose for herself if she wishes to go through with a pregnancy. As you can tell, I believe in a woman's right to choose. And what right do you have to take someone's personal life and drag it through the mud. I do not care if she posted it earlier. It was her post to make, not your post to use to spread your hatred. In my eyes, you are the lowest scum of the earth......May God help you.....because he's the only one who can.....Janeway.....you are the epitome of EVIL!


Janeway said:


> You don't really know the truth about Seattle MIB. She is one of the most hateful people on KP. She sent DonnieK a very mean PM & Donnie posted it for all to read.
> 
> Even her own people on here, criticize her. She continually slams my race.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Then explain all those pow wows....isn't that your religion? Do you attend them? If not, then you have given up your religion so you can complain about how badly everyone else has treated you......Hypocrite!


Janeway said:


> The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.
> 
> O I trying to to the same thing to us today my fording his Muslim religion down our throats! He want to do away with In God We Trust or anything with God/Jesus.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Probably because you use it as a crutch to gain sympathy. I would say there isn't much NA pride in that.


Janeway said:


> Of course you are innocent about your sarcasm concerning everything your small mind cannot comprehend!
> 
> Don't slam me about my race again or I will file a complaint about you to Admin. Why is my race any of your business?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Unedited post. Oops


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate & unedited post. Oops


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> And what right do you have to take someone's personal life and drag it through the mud. (Y)ou are the epitome of EVIL!


Why cannot someone do what you, yourself, do again and again to me? Don't bothering answering, we all know what EVIL words you'll spill.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Joey, you are wonderful person for doing what you can afford to Charity. Don't let Eve tell you anything as I'm sure she does "nothing" for the natives in her country or elsewhere!


You are exactly correct, Janeway. You and Joey do so much for others, and I'm willing to bet Eve does not a thing for others.

BTW: Jane, your bow tie and other quilts are very nice!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I replied to your remarks about KGP?


Again, she's completely lost.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Not nice! Do you really think we care what you think? Go pay for insurance for a needy person in your own country!


I don't need to. We have a National Health Service.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Three's a charm. My fingrer just aren't working this AM.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.


Maybe she's a descendant of some _Central_ American tribe? The Chortis? The Cabecars? Oh yes, and the Aztecs...those folks who honored their gods by cutting out the living hearts of sacrificial victims.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Why should anyone buy insurance to help someone else. I am disgusted with Obama and his policies. Shame on him for turning America into a non-democratic country.


Good Morning, Lukelucy:

Watch this video, Dick will make you feel better! Obama is destroying himself AND his signature FAILED legislation. No worries - a wipeout of the Dems in 2014 is predicted.

Of course, Morris cannot get everything correct, but I'm betting he is correct on this one. More than 78% of Americans are against Obamacare now, and that % will only increase as employer-based folks lose their policies and doctors.

http://www.dickmorris.com/democrats-dig-a-hole-dick-morris-tv-lunch-alert/?utm_source=dmreports&utm_medium=dmreports&utm_campaign=dmreports


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But then why are the unions paying non employees to protest under the guise that they are Walmart employees. Shouldn't the union be paying union workers?


They are giving them a $50 gift card, and there a lot of people that believe raising the minimum wage would be good for everyone.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good Morning, Lukelucy:
> 
> Watch this video, Dick will make you feel better! Obama is destroying himself AND his signature FAILED legislation. No worries - a wipeout of the Dems in 2014 is predicted.
> 
> ...


Checked it out...interesting. Why does a radio talk show host feel the need to wear makeup?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

blessedinMO said:


> Everything is OK with our ACA. I received a notice from my HMO yesterday regarding my medicine supply. Two of my my main Rxs that have an $8 co-pay in 2013 will be $95 in 2014.


My Humana part D tried to do that to me too. A RX that I paid $10 for 3 month supply jumped to $95. I didn't take it because I wanted an explanation first. The guy at Walmart tried several explanations, that didn't work and then said they lost their contract with that drug company. I got some samples from my Dr and made several calls to Humana and each person I talked to gave me a different story. Then I reordered the rx and asked for just 1 month instead of 3. This was about a month later and now the 3 month supply was $57. I shopped around and am switching insurance starting in January. I don't know if it is the insurance company or WalMart trying to screw me, but that is not acceptable.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Australia has Medicare, formerly Medibank. It may not be perfect but it does guarentee afordable medical care for all. Funded from a compulsory levy on our income. Income below a certain amount is exempt and higher income earners pay a higher levy. It is calculated when you submit your taxation return. I am very glad it is in place. When I worked I paid the levy even though I would have only one doctor's visit a year. We do have private health insurance options available for additional services or treatment at private hospitals. Waiting lists can be long especially if you choose a particular hospital and ambulance ramping does take place, but I know from personal experience that you can be in the operating theatre within an hour of attending an ER department. And all at absolutely no cost to me, the patient, including the ambulance trip to the major hospital in Perth.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are exactly correct, Janeway. You and Joey do so much for others, and I'm willing to bet Eve does not a thing for others.
> !


I guess that is why someone on this site called me 'a bleeding heart sucker' and 'a soft touch'.

Stop jumping to conclusions, especially when you know naught about the person you are condemming.

What I do to help others is of no concern to you. You will only twist my words and use them as cannon fodder against me.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You have to realize that enough of us cannot do enough. You don't have to list your charitable works. Many of us do everything we can. You aren't getting the magnitude of the problem. Being opposed to government helping WE THE PEOPLE says something about you. Now that we know how you really feel about the government helping those less fortunate, I understand your brand of Christianity. You aren't understanding that individuals can't possibly do enough. And you aren't understanding the meaning of the gospel message and the concept of what it means to be responsible to our society. Not with that attitude. I'm sorry for you.


What I find sadly missing in your post is the fact they should do nothing for themselves. There comes a time when individuals need to stop doing for others and let them do for themselves. Babies are taught to be independent in stages and are taught to take care of themselves as they grow into adults. Why shouldn't this apply to those on government assistance? Aside from the small percentage that really need all the help available, why can't the others move forward and start being responsible for themselves? Handling everything for people is keeping them down and out. I guess that's what you Democrats want overall. You don't want people able to take care of themselves, learn, grow, prosper on their own - it might just mean they will become too independent and think before they vote next time.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

ute4kp said:


> You are a simpleton. Read my mind.


Can't, its empty.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I do see a lot of people criticizing me for not giving money for charity, but I do not see that any of them are saying they do anything for charity. Pot calling the Kettle Black!


As KPG said: Bragging about yourself; the mark of insecurity.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess that is why someone on this site called me 'a bleeding heart sucker' and 'a soft touch'.
> 
> Stop jumping to conclusions, especially when you know naught about the person you are condemming.
> 
> What I do to help others is of no concern to you. You will only twist my words and use them as cannon fodder against me.


So true, Eve. I'm aware of your highly commendable activities--no point in listing them for this crew, though. They're playing that tired old GOP trick of demanding evidence so they can rip it to pieces.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Your post is not about helping charities or the needy, it is a boast about your good deeds. It is also a boast that you are a better financial manager than the charities.
> 
> I know you are going to slam me for my comments but I am still going to voice them.
> 
> ...


My aren't you the arrogant one? What is your problem? Too much BS enveloping your brain that all that spews out is garbage? Joey gives to those in need in her area of the country. Each area has different needs and who are you to say what she gives isn't meeting those needs.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I do not know if you do or do not give money to charity, that is your business. With this economy, I can't imagine any of us have that kind of money. But what is more interesting is that the libs believe you are only charitable if you give money to people. It is always about people giving their money to someone else, who may not deserve or truly need it. But like Obamacare, I guess Obama and the libs will determine if your giving is substandard or not. Wonder if there will be a law that forces people to donate money to others on top of the large amount of taxes we pay. Personally, the giving of my time is more valuable, but they only want money.


A law that forces people to donate money!!!!!!! Where do you come up with these things? Only problem is someone will repeat this as the truth and once it hits Fox News it is fact.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> The ones I give to are run by volunteers and they provide clothes or whatever to anyone that may need them free of charge. Other than the clothes that are available anytime. They collect dishes, kitchen articles bedding or anything that would be needed to start over after a fire. And they say charity begins at home so I prefer to do more local.
> 
> So I'll leave the money giving to you since they need it so bad and I'll keep doing what I am doing. I don't have that kind of money to be giving it.
> 
> So what if a hospital in the middle of Africa is in need of bandages and no amount of money can buy them in that area? What if the only way they can get them is if someone here in the USA rips up old cotton sheets and rolls them to send to that African Hospital? What good is money? I will use my money to send the bandages after I have collected the old sheets , roll bandages, and packaged them. Sometimes money does not cover the need!


Her idea of helping is throwing money at a problem, not seeing a solution to a problem. Just like the rest of the Democrats.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> But then why are the unions paying non employees to protest under the guise that they are Walmart employees. Shouldn't the union be paying union workers?


It's all about the union and the fact they want to get into WalMart.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Knitry said to me:
> Well, get the heck over it. The government continues to trample on MY religious rights by spending MY taxpayer money on needless wars, and on multi-million dollar farm subsidies to Republicans who vote to slash food stamps out of the ag budget. And on drones and the militarization of our law enforcement organizations, and on domestic spying and huge database storage facilities in Utah, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> YOUR religious rights aren't any darned better than mine. So when YOU start giving a darn about MY religious rights, I'll start caring about yours.
> ...


The food stamp program has expanded because the Bush administration tanked the economy and people lost their jobs. The President wanted a jobs bill passed, but the republicans said no and at the same time cut food stamps. Here comes my favorite word again, HYPOCRITE.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Susan, O is not my president & never will be as he is the most disgusting man ever! Shame on you for name calling as you are doing the same thing you accuse us of doing!


You are constantly calling President Obama names, so you get back what you dish out. Enjoy


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Of course you are innocent about your sarcasm concerning everything your small mind cannot comprehend!
> 
> Don't slam me about my race again or I will file a complaint about you to Admin. Why is my race any of your business?


Are you protecting this sacred land when you vote Republican and they strip the regulations that were put in place to protect this land from pollution?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Stop jumping to conclusions, especially when you know naught about the person you are condemming.
> 
> What I do to help others is of no concern to you. You will only twist my words and use them as cannon fodder against me.


Oh, ya, sure, hypocrite. You slammed and condemned Joey in what, six paragraphs, about what she told about ONE thing she had done to help others. Now you decide you are King and no one can question what you do, probably DON'T do, to help others.

Get over yourself and stop telling others what is so wrong in their giving and charitable works and do some yourself.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.
> 
> O I trying to to the same thing to us today my fording his Muslim religion down our throats! He want to do away with In God We Trust or anything with God/Jesus.


Show the proof for you last statement please. It is a complete lie. You can add that to your list of names, but oh I am sure you have already been called that before.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What I find sadly missing in your post is the fact they should do nothing for themselves. There comes a time when individuals need to stop doing for others and let them do for themselves. Babies are taught to be independent in stages and are taught to take care of themselves as they grow into adults. Why shouldn't this apply to those on government assistance? Aside from the small percentage that really need all the help available, why can't the others move forward and start being responsible for themselves? Handling everything for people is keeping them down and out. I guess that's what you Democrats want overall. You don't want people able to take care of themselves, learn, grow, prosper on their own - it might just mean they will become too independent and think before they vote next time.


 :thumbup: Aren't you so sick to death about how the Libs are so willing to redistribute everyone else's money but their own and never take responsibility for themselves?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Can't, its empty.


 :XD: :thumbup: :XD: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> My aren't you the arrogant one? What is your problem? Too much BS enveloping your brain that all that spews out is garbage? Joey gives to those in need in her area of the country. Each area has different needs and who are you to say what she gives isn't meeting those needs.


I'm willing to bet Eve doesn't even donate her BS to anyone either. :lol:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why cannot someone do what you, yourself, do again and again to me? Don't bothering answering, we all know what EVIL words you'll spill.


Doing what you always do KPG, turn everything around so you can play poor me. Everyone else is always mean to you, but you take no responsibility for all that you do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> As KPG said: Bragging about yourself; the mark of insecurity.


Well, you did a fine job of it about yourself.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Her idea of helping is throwing money at a problem, not seeing a solution to a problem. Just like the rest of the Democrats.


 :thumbup: When has throwing money at education, food stamps, food bans, Obamaphones, crime rates, social welfare programs, etc., ever proven to be a solution to a problem? The Dems never learn.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Walmart is in the news right now because they are one of the largest businesses taking advantage of people at the moment, but it includes any business that exploits its employees with low pay and lack of healthcare. All the while they are doing this they are making record profits. It is corporate greed and the sad thing is, it is on the increase.


WalMart did not force any employee to accept their position. The employees knew what the wages were prior to accepting the position. If they didn't like it, they didn't have to take the job, as there were probably many in line for that job.

WalMart pays above minimum wage, competitive wages. These positions are mainly safe and non-strenous - stocking shelves, cash register and pricing, etc, that require little or no experience. The pay equates to the skills required for the job.

Critics of WalMart feel they should pay $12/hr or more, but these wages shouldn't be earned or justified - they should be dispensed like handouts. Typical union BS.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good Morning, Lukelucy:
> 
> Watch this video, Dick will make you feel better! Obama is destroying himself AND his signature FAILED legislation. No worries - a wipeout of the Dems in 2014 is predicted.
> 
> ...


Just like Morris predicted that Romney would win. You still believe him? Oh my, you do have problems.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It's all about the union and the fact they want to get into WalMart.


 :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> So people on medicaid will continue to go to the ER for every little sniffle?
> There you go looking down your nose at others again. Be careful you don't fall off that perch you sit on. Someday you may find yourself in need. There but for the grace of God go I.


The more people on Medicaid, the less the reimbursement to the doctors and the more doctors opting out of Medicare and Medcaid will definitely mean that more people will end up in the ER. It's logical.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What I find sadly missing in your post is the fact they should do nothing for themselves. There comes a time when individuals need to stop doing for others and let them do for themselves. Babies are taught to be independent in stages and are taught to take care of themselves as they grow into adults. Why shouldn't this apply to those on government assistance? Aside from the small percentage that really need all the help available, why can't the others move forward and start being responsible for themselves? Handling everything for people is keeping them down and out. I guess that's what you Democrats want overall. You don't want people able to take care of themselves, learn, grow, prosper on their own - it might just mean they will become too independent and think before they vote next time.


Your problem is you group everyone together and paint everyone with the same brush. There are many many many different stories out there. What works for one person may not work for the next one. What is always missing from republicans is empathy.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Eve. I'm aware of your highly commendable activities--no point in listing them for this crew, though. They're playing that tired old GOP trick of demanding evidence so they can rip it to pieces.


But when they are asked for evidence, there is none.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> The food stamp program has expanded because the Bush administration tanked the economy and people lost their jobs. The President wanted a jobs bill passed, but the republicans said no and at the same time cut food stamps. Here comes my favorite word again, HYPOCRITE.


My, what a stupid statement. Under Bush the unemployment rate hovered around 5.87%. Under Obama that rate has NEVER been under 8% and because Obama forced the way the rate is calculated to benefit him, the actual rate is more like 15% (higher for minority races). Food stamp handouts DOUBLED under Obama DURING Obama's watch. Obama has done NOTHING for jobs and the economy during the five years while he has been in office, and he doesn't even meet with his Jobs Council not that it would help. During Obama's term to date, not ONE, not ONE, job has been created. Obama touts 250,000 thousands jobs created over a five year period - whoopee - which is BS since those are part-time laborers AND he doesn't consider the millions of jobs lost which results in a NET loss of jobs; the NET result is zero jobs created under Obama's reign.

Here comes my favorite words to describe you again, IGNORANT of the FACTS.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> You are right! My time is more valuable. I have much more time than money.
> 
> My favorite shopping trip is in the spring when the winter items are really on sale. When I can buy a Green Bay Jacket for $6 instead of the normal price of $59.99. If they have 3 left, I'll buy all three. Then the next winter, with the coats for kids drive, 3 kids will have a coat, hat and mittens. I will have invested less than $25. Less than half the price of one coat.
> 
> If I would have just given them $25, they could not have purchased one coat.


More importantly, how much of that $25 actually goes to the needy?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Her idea of helping is throwing money at a problem, not seeing a solution to a problem. Just like the rest of the Democrats.


And your idea is to offer no help at all. I got mine and to h--- with you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Doing what you always do KPG, turn everything around so you can play poor me. Everyone else is always mean to you, but you take no responsibility for all that you do.


Wake up. I'm not poor, don't claim to be a victim and take responsibility for all my actions. I speak the truth, you should try it sometime.

BTW: what ever will you do when MSNBC is defunct? :lol:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: When has throwing money at education, food stamps, food bans, Obamaphones, crime rates, social welfare programs, etc., ever proven to be a solution to a problem? The Dems never learn.


Throwing money at education, what the h--- is wrong with you? Education is the one thing that can do more this country than anything else. Food stamps-OK, we know you would rather let people starve, that doesn't surprise me. What do you mean by food bans? The Obamaphones were actually started under Reagan and they are not paid for by taxpayers. So President Obama is blamed for crime too, you are grasping at straws.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Throwing money at education, what the h--- is wrong with you? Education is the one thing that can do more this country than anything else. Food stamps-OK, we know you would rather let people starve, that doesn't surprise me. What do you mean by food bans? The Obamaphones were actually started under Reagan and they are not paid for by taxpayers. So President Obama is blamed for crime too, you are grasping at straws.


And there you go again, your line of BS, no facts, no truths, no idea of reality. You must enjoy talking to yourself since no one else agrees nor does as you suggest (not even the Libs and Dems).


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> WalMart did not force any employee to accept their position. The employees knew what the wages were prior to accepting the position. If they didn't like it, they didn't have to take the job, as there were probably many in line for that job.
> 
> WalMart pays above minimum wage, competitive wages. These positions are mainly safe and non-strenous - stocking shelves, cash register and pricing, etc, that require little or no experience. The pay equates to the skills required for the job.
> 
> Critics of WalMart feel they should pay $12/hr or more, but these wages shouldn't be earned or justified - they should be dispensed like handouts. Typical union BS.


If a person didn't take a job offered by WalMart then you would criticize them for being lazy, but since they took it, to bad for them as they knew what their wages were going to be, and they didn't have to take the job. How do you feel about providing food stamps for all of them because they can't afford to buy food?


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: When has throwing money at education, food stamps, food bans, Obamaphones, crime rates, social welfare programs, etc., ever proven to be a solution to a problem? The Dems never learn.


California is embarking on a program to help poor people buy an electric car by way of "vouchers." The program would greatly reduce or pay in full the ticket price of a new nissan "Leaf" MSRP $18 to $21 grand. Not to worry Taxpayers, it's just another looting spree.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My, what a stupid statement. Under Bush the unemployment rate hovered around 5.87%. Under Obama that rate has NEVER been under 8% and because Obama forced the way the rate is calculated to benefit him, the actual rate is more like 15% (higher for minority races). Food stamp handouts DOUBLED under Obama DURING Obama's watch. Obama has done NOTHING for jobs and the economy during the five years while he has been in office, and he doesn't even meet with his Jobs Council not that it would help. During Obama's term to date, not ONE, not ONE, job has been created. Obama touts 250,000 thousands jobs created over a five year period - whoopee - which is BS since those are part-time laborers AND he doesn't consider the millions of jobs lost which results in a NET loss of jobs; the NET result is zero jobs created under Obama's reign.
> 
> Here comes my favorite words to describe you again, IGNORANT of the FACTS.


You make me just sit here and shake my head at your stupidity. The Bush administration tanked the economy, that is why jobs were lost, you know that thing called the recession that started because of Bush. It was President Obama that turned things around with NO help from the republicans because they have made it their job to stop him from getting anything done. You remember that meeting they had on the day of his inauguration. He has a jobs bill, the republicans will not pass. He has empathy for all the people out of work, because they still need to eat. 
You are such a HYPOCRITE.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess that is why someone on this site called me 'a bleeding heart sucker' and 'a soft touch'.
> 
> Stop jumping to conclusions, especially when you know naught about the person you are condemming.
> 
> What I do to help others is of no concern to you. You will only twist my words and use them as cannon fodder against me.


Try taking your own advice. You do the very thing you are accusing the poster of doing.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

NJG said:


> You make me just sit here and shake my head at your stupidity. The Bush administration tanked the economy, that is why jobs were lost, you know that thing called the recession that started because of Bush. It was President Obama that turned things around with NO help from the republicans because they have made it their job to stop him from getting anything done. You remember that meeting they had on the day of his inauguration. He has a jobs bill, the republicans will not pass. He has empathy for all the people out of work, because they still need to eat.
> You are such a HYPOCRITE.


Dems voted against his jobs bill also.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Just think what could happen if each person would just help one person to become independent.


That is so not what the Democrats want. Imagine what would happen if the dependent started thinking and doing for themselves. Independent people start thinking then start making decisions for themselves. Chaos.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Aren't you so sick to death about how the Libs are so willing to redistribute everyone else's money but their own and never take responsibility for themselves?


Yes, I am. The Democrats keep saying they are so intelligent, yet they can't see that throwing money at a problem won't necessarily fix it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm willing to bet Eve doesn't even donate her BS to anyone either. :lol:


They want money, not BS.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: When has throwing money at education, food stamps, food bans, Obamaphones, crime rates, social welfare programs, etc., ever proven to be a solution to a problem? The Dems never learn.


Isn't doing the same thing over and over again (in this case, throwing money at the same problem) and expecting a different outcome, a sign of insanity?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Your problem is you group everyone together and paint everyone with the same brush. There are many many many different stories out there. What works for one person may not work for the next one. What is always missing from republicans is empathy.


What is always missing from Democrats is a belief that people are better than what they are told to settle for. This is a sorry excuse for empathy,


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> WalMart did not force any employee to accept their position. The employees knew what the wages were prior to accepting the position. If they didn't like it, they didn't have to take the job, as there were probably many in line for that job.
> 
> WalMart pays above minimum wage, competitive wages. These positions are mainly safe and non-strenous - stocking shelves, cash register and pricing, etc, that require little or no experience. The pay equates to the skills required for the job.


Give me a break--you obviously have never worked in retail. In my late teens I worked for a drugstore and a grocery.
As a checkout clerk I spent 7.5 hours every day standing in one spot on a hard linoleum floor--my back would spasm so badly towards the end of shift I'd bend over and not be able to straighten back up.
As a stock clerk I was in charge of the medicine aisle...boxes that weighed 20 to 30 pounds had to be dragged out of the stockroom onto the floor...a hundred or more shelves of medicines had to be kept tidy, which meant arranging and rearranging them with my arms held out at shoulder level for hours at a time.
Unskilled work? Yes. Non-strenuous? Absolutely not.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break--you obviously have never worked in retail. In my late teens I worked for a drugstore and a grocery.
> As a checkout clerk I spent 7.5 hours every day standing in one spot on a hard linoleum floor--my back would spasm so badly towards the end of shift I'd bend over and not be able to straighten back up.
> As a stock clerk I was in charge of the medicine aisle...boxes that weighed 20 to 30 pounds had to be dragged out of the stockroom onto the floor...a hundred or more shelves of medicines had to be kept tidy, which meant arranging and rearranging them with my arms held out at shoulder level for hours at a time.
> Unskilled work? Yes. Non-strenuous? Absolutely not.


How was your teenage years any different from others? We all did grunt work, then worked to improve our situation.

20 pounds for a teenager is no big deal. My dog's food bags weigh much more than that.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's an copy/paste of an e-mail I received recently that shows the contrast in a comparison between our two most recent Presidents: (unfortunately I cannot position the images in the proper place due to KP restraints - but you can see the contrast).
> ________________
> A perfect example of an empty suit and an empty head glued together.........The tradegy is this great nation has enough empty heads that we have to tolerate this fool....GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just look at the paraphernalia this pompous XXX carries into a school to speak to small children.


The two pictures you posted say it ALL! The two presidents couldn't be more different when it comes to extemp. speaking. Thank you, KPG.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good Morning, Lukelucy:
> 
> Watch this video, Dick will make you feel better! Obama is destroying himself AND his signature FAILED legislation. No worries - a wipeout of the Dems in 2014 is predicted.
> 
> ...


KPG, 
I watched the video. Thank you. There are such cruel people on this site.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break--you obviously have never worked in retail. In my late teens I worked for a drugstore and a grocery.
> As a checkout clerk I spent 7.5 hours every day standing in one spot on a hard linoleum floor--my back would spasm so badly towards the end of shift I'd bend over and not be able to straighten back up.
> As a stock clerk I was in charge of the medicine aisle...boxes that weighed 20 to 30 pounds had to be dragged out of the stockroom onto the floor...a hundred or more shelves of medicines had to be kept tidy, which meant arranging and rearranging them with my arms held out at shoulder level for hours at a time.
> Unskilled work? Yes. Non-strenuous? Absolutely not.


You would be wrong as usual. I did work retail a number of times throughout the years. I worked in supermarkets, department stores , a camera store and in shipping and receiving, where I had to lift way more than 20-30 lbs, (the size of a toddler). For the most part it is non-strenuous. I guess some people have to complain about everything, whether or not it is warranted.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My, what a stupid statement. Under Bush the unemployment rate hovered around 5.87%. Under Obama that rate has NEVER been under 8% and because Obama forced the way the rate is calculated to benefit him, the actual rate is more like 15% (higher for minority races). Food stamp handouts DOUBLED under Obama DURING Obama's watch. Obama has done NOTHING for jobs and the economy during the five years while he has been in office, and he doesn't even meet with his Jobs Council not that it would help. During Obama's term to date, not ONE, not ONE, job has been created. Obama touts 250,000 thousands jobs created over a five year period - whoopee - which is BS since those are part-time laborers AND he doesn't consider the millions of jobs lost which results in a NET loss of jobs; the NET result is zero jobs created under Obama's reign.
> 
> Here comes my favorite words to describe you again, IGNORANT of the FACTS.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

READ THIS!!!

ObamaCare's Next Legal Challenge

The law says subsidies can only go through state-run exchanges.

By 
Scott Pruitt 

Dec. 1, 2013 6:38 p.m. ET

Oklahoma City 

As millions of Americans see their health-insurance premiums increase, have their coverage dropped as a result of the Affordable Care Act, and are unable to use the federal exchange, Oklahoma has sued the Obama administration. The Sooner State and several others are trying to stop the government from imposing tax penalties on certain states, businesses and individuals in defiance of the law. If these legal challenges are successful, the deficit spending associated with the new health-care law could be reduced by approximately $700 billion over the next decade. 

While the president's health law is vast and extraordinarily complex, it is in one respect very simple. Subsidies are only to be made available, and tax penalties for not signing up for health insurance are only to be assessed, in states that create their own health-care exchange. The IRS, however, is attempting to enforce tax penalties in all statesincluding Oklahoma and the majority of the other states that have declined to create their own exchanges. Citizens and businesses in these states must use the federal exchange instead. 

The distinction is critical, because under the terms of the law it is the availability of government insurance-premium subsidies that triggers the penalties against businesses if they fail to provide their employees with health insurance that the administration deems acceptable. This is a huge problem for the administration, which desperately needs to hand out tax credits and subsidies to the citizenry to quash the swelling backlash against the law. 

When Oklahoma first raised this challenge in 2012, many experts predicted that the Sooner State would "go it alone" in pursuing this legal strategy. Not so. In Indiana, the state and 15 school districts have filed a lawsuit against the IRS, the agency that collects the penalties. Business owners (who, like the state of Oklahoma, would be subject to penalties as employers) and individuals in Virginia and the District of Columbia have done the same. In the D.C. lawsuit, the presiding judge recently rejected the Obama administration's attempt to have the case dismissed, as the judge in the Oklahoma case did in August. 

Motions for summary judgment will soon be filed in federal district courts, and our court system will determine whether what the administration has called its "improvements" to the ACAessentially by ignoring some of its provisionsare lawful.

They are not. Congress was exceedingly clear that tax credits and subsidies are available to people whose plans "were enrolled in through an exchange established by the State under section 1311 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act." Even so, the administration argues that Congress intended for all Americans to receive subsidies regardless of whether they enrolled in health-care coverage through a state exchange or a federal exchange. But to arrive at that conclusion you have to ignore the plain language of the law. And nowhere in the law did Congress authorize the IRS to provide the credits or subsidies to those other than citizens who buy their insurance through an exchange established under section 1311 of the ACAi.e., a state exchange. 

Congress specified that credits and subsidies are only to be available in states that set up their own health-insurance exchange for a reason: It could not force states to set up exchanges. Instead, it had to entice them to do so. Oklahoma's lawsuit is about preserving the state's authority to make a policy decision granted to states under the Affordable Care Act. Our governor and policy makers in Oklahoma decided it wasn't in the state's best interest to create a health-care exchange. The IRS, at the administration's bidding, is attempting to take away the benefits of that choice by regulatory action. Such attempts to expand the power of the executive branch should be troubling to all Americans.

While much time has been devoted in Washington to the issue of "defunding" the Affordable Care Act, the success of these lawsuits would have much the same effect. Should the courts decide the IRS is exceeding its authority and isn't allowed to assess the employer penalties in states that have not established their own exchanges, the structure of the ACA will crumbleas one of the primary mechanisms the federal government has employed to force people into the health-insurance market evaporates.

As much as we wish the government were run like a business, the administration cannot "improve" upon legislation passed by Congress by rolling out updates in the manner that Silicon Valley does. That's not permitted under the Constitution: Congress passes laws, the president executes them. Period. That's why Oklahoma and other states are fighting to stop the administration's attempt to "fix" the health-care law through executive fiat.

Mr. Pruitt is the attorney general of Oklahoma.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break--you obviously have never worked in retail. In my late teens I worked for a drugstore and a grocery.
> As a checkout clerk I spent 7.5 hours every day standing in one spot on a hard linoleum floor--my back would spasm so badly towards the end of shift I'd bend over and not be able to straighten back up.
> As a stock clerk I was in charge of the medicine aisle...boxes that weighed 20 to 30 pounds had to be dragged out of the stockroom onto the floor...a hundred or more shelves of medicines had to be kept tidy, which meant arranging and rearranging them with my arms held out at shoulder level for hours at a time.
> Unskilled work? Yes. Non-strenuous? Absolutely not.


I understand where you are coming from. People who have not actually worked in a similar position do not know how tiring it is to actually stand on your feet, moving very little, for several hours. And all the while you have to remain pleasant, regardless of how nasty the customers can be. That is why the libraries I worked in had a two hour limit on counter duty. Only thing was, this did not apply to Saturday or Sunday work. Sunday work was OK, that was only 3.5 hours but most of us who worked Saturdays did a double shift, 9.00 am to 5.00 pm, and we were knackered at the end. I also know about shelving, but library shelving involved bending and stretching also. Trolleys loaded both sides with books are heavy.

I see someone has taken you to task, saying 20 kg is not heavy, their bags of dog food weigh the same weight. Yes, but does she have to lug the bag of dog food for hours every day?

Just more slamming of those who work in lower paying positions, saying that their labour is only worth that pittace. They are missing the point, no matter what the work, how lowly the position, the worker should be paid a decent, living wage. They lack any compassion and understanding. They fail to realise that the labourer is still a human being, they still have families to feed, house and educate. They cannot do this if they do not receive an adequate wage for their labour.

Sorry, that should be 20 pounds not 20 kg, but it does not matter, constantly lugging any weight every day is not the same as bringing it home from the store once a week.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Can't stay (will try to be back later) -- but I just wanted to pop in and share this, from a handsome young man:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How was your teenage years any different from others? We all did grunt work, then worked to improve our situation.
> 
> 20 pounds for a teenager is no big deal. My dog's food bags weigh much more than that.


Lugging a 20-pound bag of dog chow in from the car is no big deal--unless you have to do it ten times in a row and are suffering from arthritis, back problems, and/or pregnancy, as many older workers are. The point is that even unskilled jobs can cause wear and tear on the body--being a stock- or checkout clerk can't be called non-strenuous by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You should have worked on a farm. You, at least, had shifts that ended. I bet you had days off too. When there was work to do and the weather cooperated you worked. I can't say I threw bales, since we put up loose hay. It was more work than bales. The only job I did not do was clean the gutters, My dad always did that or the neighbor did it when He was sick. We had a milking machine, but if we lost power, we milked by hand. That happened often since there were only 3 more farms after ours on the electric line.
> 
> Then there was the garden a large one, we need to preserve the produce from the garden for the winter.
> 
> ...


You're so right, Joeysomma! :thumbup: Farmers have the hardest, yet the most underappreciated, life! Thank you for stating the facts. :thumbup:


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> If you care for people by all means find a deserving person and pay their medical bills. You know put your money where your mouth is. That sorta thing.


Yes! :thumbup: They're very generous with someone else's money, but not so much with their own.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I understand where you are coming from. People who have not actually worked in a similar position do not know how tiring it is to actually stand on your feet, moving very little, for several hours. And all the while you have to remain pleasant, regardless of how nasty the customers can be. That is why the libraries I worked in had a two hour limit on counter duty. Only thing was, this did not apply to Saturday or Sunday work. Sunday work was OK, that was only 3.5 hours but most of us who worked Saturdays did a double shift, 9.00 am to 5.00 pm, and we were knackered at the end. I also know about shelving, but library shelving involved bending and stretching also. Trolleys loaded both sides with books are heavy.
> 
> I see someone has taken you to task, saying 20 kg is not heavy, their bags of dog food weigh the same weight. Yes, but does she have to lug the bag of dog food for hours every day?
> 
> ...


You hit the nail on the head, Eve. Thanks.

I stopped shopping at Walmart when I noticed grey-haired grannies trying to tug huge boxes of goods around the store--the clerk who looked about ten months pregnant--the cashier in leg braces using his arms to hold himself upright at the register. That these people accepted the jobs in no excuse for such treatment--in the 1930s and before, business owners fought minimum wage regulations by arguing that they didn't force people to work for them.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't doing the same thing over and over again (in this case, throwing money at the same problem) and expecting a different outcome, a sign of insanity?


Yes, Hillary said the same some years ago! Good point, Solo! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Tea party activist: Jesus Christ is weeping in heaven over popes criticism of capitalism

By Travis Gettys
Monday, December 2, 2013 14:52 EST

Yet another conservative has taken issue with critical comments made by Pope Francis on capitalism and trickle-down economics.

Tea party activist Jonathon Moseley published a World Net Daily column Sunday that challenged the popes interpretation of the Bible, saying that Jesus had addressed his comments about helping the poor to individuals, not the government.

Moseley, a Virginia business and criminal defense attorney, supports his claim with a verse from the Book of Luke in which Jesus declines to act as arbitrator when someone asks him to compel a brother to divide their family inheritance.

In just one verse, we see that God rejects the left-wing Jesus Christ supported socialism heresy, Moseley writes. When Jesus was asked to support redistribution of wealth  to tell one brother to share the family inheritance with the other  Jesus refused.

Moseley says Jesus would never support a government or church stealing property by force to give to someone else because he wouldnt even intervene with the family dispute described in the Bible.

He dismisses claims by those who say the popes Spanish-language Apostolic Exhortation was mistranslated, because Pope Francis himself had not disputed the translations and corrected translations differ little from the original.

But Moseley says the pope is wrong to argue for government intervention in the distribution of wealth, and he defends the popes American conservative critics.

One truth shines out from the Bible: Jesus spoke to the individual, never to government or government policy, Moseley writes. Jesus was a capitalist, preaching personal responsibility, not a socialist.

Moseley mangles the definition of socialism to make it seem synonymous with totalitarianism and defines capitalism as synonymous with freedom, and proceeds with his arguments from there.

Would Jesus endorse the violence needed for government intervention? Moseley argues.

He says that capitalism necessarily benefits society because businesses rely on consumers to choose their products or services.

The consumer is king, Moseley argues. Consumers wont buy unless the purchase benefits them. To reinforce that central pillar of capitalism, laws against lying and fraud are proper and necessary.

Moseley, who cohosts the Conservative Commandos radio show and serves as executive director of American Border Control, says the pope has got it all wrong on the free market.

In teaching us how we should live, Jesus agrees that a man who traded with investment capital and earned profits is praised and rewarded by his master, a type for God, and given increased authority, Moseley writes.

By contrast, he notes, Pope Francis specifically rejects the invisible hand of the free market as a poison.

He says the pope has directly contradicted Jesus strategy of changing individual hearts one at a time by calling on political leaders to help improve the lives of the poor and to address the issue of wealth inequality.

Jesus Christ is weeping in heaven hearing Christians espouse a socialist philosophy that has created suffering and poverty around the world, Moseley writes. It is impossible to love ones neighbor as yourself without fighting against socialism, meaning government meddling in private lives.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/02/tea-party-activist-jesus-christ-is-weeping-in-heaven-over-popes-criticism-of-capitalism/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Just maybe all of the ones you mentioned were just happy to be working. And thankful that Walmart was willing to let them work.


Perhaps--just as during the Great Depression starving people were eager to work for a nickel an hour. That doesn't make it right or just to let them do so. It's exploitation, pure and simple


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It's exploitation, to give someone a job? You would rather they would be homeless and beg?


Puh--lease. Just give them a living wage. Do you know what that means?
The amount of money held by the wealthy and by corporations of this country at the expense of everyone else is obscene. Everyone needs a living wage for the work s/he performs. Of what use is money beyond that? Never mind answering, just give it thought.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Tea party activist: Jesus Christ is weeping in heaven over popes criticism of capitalism
> 
> By Travis Gettys
> Monday, December 2, 2013 14:52 EST
> ...


These people make me puke. A very warped interpretation of the Bible, but I guess they think they know better than the pope.
Thanks for posting.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Lugging a 20-pound bag of dog chow in from the car is no big deal--unless you have to do it ten times in a row and are suffering from arthritis, back problems, and/or pregnancy, as many older workers are. The point is that even unskilled jobs can cause wear and tear on the body--being a stock- or checkout clerk can't be called non-strenuous by any stretch of the imagination.


I am amazed how many people claim that toting a 20 pound thing over and over isn't strenuous, but then refuse to watch any toddlers because "they can't lift them". I've personally seen it happen (I am not saying I saw anyone on this post do it, just to clarify). But they have no problem saying someone their age or older should be carting around that weight routinely.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I thought this was quite apt:


> So, Healthcare.gov works 80% of the time?
> The House of Representatives works less than 33% of the time.
> The Senate was in session less than 50% of the time.
> Republican fiscal policy was correct 0% of the time.
> ...


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I am amazed how many people claim that toting a 20 pound thing over and over isn't strenuous, but then refuse to watch any toddlers because "they can't lift them". I've personally seen it happen (I am not saying I saw anyone on this post do it, just to clarify). But they have no problem saying someone their age or older should be carting around that weight routinely.


She was whining about when she was a teenager, not today. I said we were all grunts at that age.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS!!!
> 
> ...


Thank you, LL, for posting this enlightening article from WSJ.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps--just as during the Great Depression starving people were eager to work for a nickel an hour. That doesn't make it right or just to let them do so. It's exploitation, pure and simple


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janeway said:


> The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.
> 
> O I trying to to the same thing to us today my fording his Muslim religion down our throats! He want to do away with In God We Trust or anything with God/Jesus.


Firstly, I am part Native American and proud of it (lest I be accused of racism or the like).

I am honestly confused with your beliefs and the parties you choose to support (or at least the political beliefs).

You correctly stated that the Christians who came over forced the Natives to change their religion and was a big force behind the extermination of many Natives. How then can you justify now supporting them, especially as many still want to oppress certain religions. The Natives on reservations are safer now with their own religion as they are Nations in their own right. (I'm sure you know but I'm explaining for those who don't) My religion happens to be one that many Christians, especially those in "those" parties, wish to suppress.

As one whose family/ancestral family was also oppressed, can you explain the reasoning to me? What am I missing?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> She was whining about when she was a teenager, not today. I said we were all grunts at that age.


So then it doesn't apply if you are older? How much older? You can legitimately complain if you are in your 30's, 40's, 50's, or older? What about health issues? Can you legitimately complain if you are disabled, perhaps haing had back surgery or the like , at a younger age?

Can you please clarify at what age a person can legitimately complain about that "non-strenuous" job?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> She was whining about when she was a teenager, not today. I said we were all grunts at that age.


Wrong--I was expressing amazement that conservatives have no problem with the pregnant, the disabled, and the elderly doing physically strenuous work.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps--just as during the Great Depression starving people were eager to work for a nickel an hour. That doesn't make it right or just to let them do so. It's exploitation, pure and simple


A loaf of bread was 9 cents during the Great Depression. Jobs were scarce if at all. Only a fool would not work for a meager wage to buy food if they were starving. I would have worked for 5 cents an hour under those conditions and I would have appreciated the opportunity.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wrong--I was expressing amazement that conservatives have no problem with the pregnant, the disabled, and the elderly doing physically strenuous work.


Thank you, I thought that's what I was responding to, but I have been known to be wrong on occassion


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

galinipper said:


> A loaf of bread was 9 cents during the Great Depression. Jobs were scarce if at all. Only a fool would not work for a meager wage to buy food if they were starving. I would have worked for 5 cents an hour under those conditions and I would have appreciated the opportunity.


I'm sure most would--but changes HAD to be made in the system as a whole. Think what things were like in those days--no food stamps, no unemployment insurance, no minimum wage, no Medicare, no Social Security. People were expected (and did) work as long as they could stand, and if they didn't have family to care for them at that point they simply died. For those conservatives who favor laissez-faire capitalism--is this really want you want to go back to?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure most would--but changes HAD to be made in the system as a whole. Think what things were like in those days--no food stamps, no unemployment insurance, no minimum wage, no Medicare, no Social Security. People were expected (and did) work as long as they could stand, and if they didn't have family to care for them at that point they simply died. For those conservatives who favor laissez-faire capitalism--is this really want you want to go back to?


Don't forget children going to work in factories and the like, instead of school (hey, then we wouldn't have to "throw money" at education!).

And little to no safety regulations for workplaces so workplace deaths weren't uncommon.

Just the "good ole days"!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Thank you, I thought that's what I was responding to, but I have been known to be wrong on occassion


No problem. Trust the conservatives to try to twist my words.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Don't forget children going to work in factories and the like, instead of school (hey, then we wouldn't have to "throw money" at education!).


So true. All one has to do is look at Third World countries--even places like Eastern Europe--to see what life in the "good old days" was like. Ugh!


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Perhaps--just as during the Great Depression starving people were eager to work for a nickel an hour. That doesn't make it right or just to let them do so. It's exploitation, pure and simple


During The Great Depression it was 'right' and it was 'just' for hungry people to work, Plain and simple.... You say they were exploited, I am saying they worked to survive. I am not connecting it to any other time in history than the 1930. It would be a disservice to that era. In other words I addressed your above post in simple terms.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

galinipper said:


> During The Great Depression it was 'right' and it was 'just' for hungry people to work, Plain and simple.... You say they were exploited, I am saying they worked to survive. I am not connecting it to any other time in history than the 1930. It would be a disservice to that era. In other words I addressed your above post in simple terms.


There was no exploitation. You are right, galinipper. They worked to survive.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> There was no exploitation. You are right, galinipper. They worked to survive.


Hi LL, I think some refuse to admit that they play twister with words. good to talk to you, have a good evening , I'm headed to the bedroom. gali


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

galinipper said:


> During The Great Depression it was 'right' and it was 'just' for hungry people to work, Plain and simple.... You say they were exploited, I am saying they worked to survive. I am not connecting it to any other time in history than the 1930. It would be a disservice to that era. In other words I addressed your above post in simple terms.


You're correct, for once--ordinary people worked to survive during the Depression. And the results of all that hard work? 1 in 5 children in NYC developed malnutrition in 1932--250K teen-age "throwaways" roamed the country searching for work and food. People starved, and companies like Bulova Watch, Truax Traer Coal, and Zenith Radio boomed. Exploitation, pure and simple.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> The two pictures you posted say it ALL! The two presidents couldn't be more different when it comes to extemp. speaking. Thank you, KPG.


I know. To think Obama ha(d) the title at first of being a great orator. Obama is not an eloquent nor skilled speaker, he is barely a good teleprompter reader. Without his prompters, speech writers, scripts, monitors and press, he is worthless to form a coherent sentence on his own. I'm appalled when he does a press conference and refuses to answer the question, cannot answer the question, lies in the answer because he doesn't know, or intends to lie, or talks for minutes without saying anything.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> How was your teenage years any different from others? We all did grunt work, then worked to improve our situation.
> 
> 20 pounds for a teenager is no big deal. My dog's food bags weigh much more than that.


Well, you know, she isn't interested in lifting a fingernail to help herself never mind others.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Me thinks you have a very poor memory! But then you may not have been around in the 90's during Clinton's administration. What laws were passed under Clinton that made the economy tank after President Bush took office? When were the houses purchased that were lost when the housing bubble burst? _ Early 2000s recession March 2001Nov 2001_ First year of Bush's administration.
> 
> _Great Recession Dec 2007  June 2009_ Remember Democrats controlled the Congress Jan 2007 to Jan 2011
> 
> ...


She obviously is not a student of facts or history. She'd be best served to learn what good ole Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, both Dems, did with the laws and regulations under Clinton to the American economy which was the most major reason for the recession(s) she is speaking about.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You should have worked on a farm. You, at least, had shifts that ended. I bet you had days off too. When there was work to do and the weather cooperated you worked. I can't say I threw bales, since we put up loose hay. It was more work than bales. The only job I did not do was clean the gutters, My dad always did that or the neighbor did it when He was sick. We had a milking machine, but if we lost power, we milked by hand. That happened often since there were only 3 more farms after ours on the electric line.
> 
> Then there was the garden a large one, we need to preserve the produce from the garden for the winter.
> 
> ...


Joey - what are you thinking? Work, expected from a teenager? Are you kidding me?

She'd be upset if she lost her internet or cell phone connection for 20 minutes never mind be expected to lift a 20 lb box or two. Pill bottles get heavy and tedious to place don't you know that?

She probably had a cart to use but now complains that she was expected to work for her wages. She was in her twenties and couldn't handle the work - good grief. How in the name did she ever get through childbirth, carry or hold to console her child or place him in a carriage or car seat five or six times a day? Oh, the horrors of physical work!

Instead of being grateful for her easy job, she is complaining about it. Some folks are never appreciative of their blessings in life, they are weak in mind, heart and strength.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, you know, she isn't interested in lifting a fingernail to help herself never mind others.


Another fanny heard from!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're correct, for once--ordinary people worked to survive during the Depression. And the results of all that hard work? 1 in 5 children in NYC developed malnutrition in 1932--250K teen-age "throwaways" roamed the country searching for work and food. People starved, and companies like Bulova Watch, Truax Traer Coal, and Zenith Radio boomed. Exploitation, pure and simple.


Honestly, they have no understanding. I remember reading so many years ago that when WW11 came, joining up was the first decent job many people had. They finally had a regular income.

According to some on this site it was moral and just for hungry people to scrounge and beg for work for just a meal to eat and perhaps a barn to sleep in. remember this was also the time of the roaring twenties and thirties when high society got up to all sorts of high jinks. Partying,bootleg liqour and the Charleston, whilst so many starved. Talk to someone in their 90s who lived through those days, ask them if it was just and moral for the wealthy to party and for the poor to be forced to work hard manual labour for just a few crumbs. How many of todays rich and famous families began their fortunes back in those days, amassing a fortune from the sweat of the labourers of this world?

Now these people here on KP want us to return to those golden days. Back down the mines, up the chimneys with the children, into the factory with the women. Well if they cannot afford a house we could send them to the poor house. Then we must not forget to reintroduce the debtors prison.

What do we want?
An honest days pay for our labours.
When do we want it?
Now.

Compassion and understanding are lacking. Perhaps some need to red the novels of John Steinbeck, he did portray an accurate description of those 'good old days'.

Sorry to rant but it does make me angry when people lack compassion and understanding of the suffering of others.

I was at Alfred's Kitchen last week and a man was there keeping himself warm by the fire. I asked if he was OK and if he would like to share a hamburger with us. Yes, he did look homeless and I did not ask if I could buy him one, I offered to share a meal with him. He said 'no thanks, someone has beaten you to it. Several people have asked me to share a meal with them.' He said it made him feel proud to think that Aussies still cared enough about their fellow man to offer him a meal. He was a very quietly spoken man who was down on his luck but he was still a man and as such deserved a helping hand. No I did not ask him why he was homeless, that was his private information to share if he wished.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly, they have no understanding. I remember reading so many years ago that when WW11 came, joining up was the first decent job many people had. They finally had a regular income.
> 
> According to some on this site it was moral and just for hungry people to scrounge and beg for work for just a meal to eat and perhaps a barn to sleep in. remember this was also the time of the roaring twenties and thirties when high society got up to all sorts of high jinks. Partying,bootleg liqour and the Charleston, whilst so many starved. Talk to someone in their 90s who lived through those days, ask them if it was just and moral for the wealthy to party and for the poor to be forced to work hard manual labour for just a few crumbs. How many of todays rich and famous families began their fortunes back in those days, amassing a fortune from the sweat of the labourers of this world?
> 
> ...


You are so right, Eve. It's perfectly obvious why private charities can't be solely responsible for providing for the poor, the disabled, the unemployed, the sick. Those organizations rely on people's sense of good will and empathy to operate, and those qualities are sadly lacking in this world--these conservative gals are proof of that. Like reincarnates of Scrooge they'd slam the door in Tiny Tim's face.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, you did a fine job of it about yourself.


Now you call it bragging, but according to you since I don't own my own business, I am a nobody. So which way is it?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The more people on Medicaid, the less the reimbursement to the doctors and the more doctors opting out of Medicare and Medcaid will definitely mean that more people will end up in the ER. It's logical.


Well then maybe the republicans should stop all the sabotage of the jobs bill so these people can get back to work and pay for their own insurance and food.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What is always missing from Democrats is a belief that people are better than what they are told to settle for. This is a sorry excuse for empathy,


Twisted that all around again, didn't you? Actually, what you said, doesn't even make sense. Because of your lack of empathy, you always assume that the poor are all the same, all good for nothings that refuse to work and take responsibility for themselves.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Any business will pay the market wage, nothing more. I cannot see any understanding of economics. I bet you want to go back to the 70's when people got a 10% raise every year. Sounds good! but then the price of every thing went up more than 10% a year.
> 
> But they got a raise. And they gained nothing!


I agree with you, Joey--economics is complicated, and I see no rhyme or reason to it. But something has gone terribly wrong, as evidenced by the gap between the rich and the poor growing as wide as the Grand Canyon. It's very strange that these days the virtues our grandmothers practiced--scrimping, saving, buying only with cash--are actually BAD for us as a nation. Remember those $500 checks the Feds sent out a few years back? The instructions that came with them were explicit: SPEND the money as quickly as possible on consumer goods, vacations, meals out etc etc--anything to jump start things. It's like our economy has become dependent on steroids--the drug of course being money and credit that doesn't really exist.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Dems voted against his jobs bill also.


You bet they did. There were two. How many many republicans voted against Boehner to open up the government? There were so many wanted it to come to the floor that Boehner had to change the rules so no one else could bring it to the floor. They had a majority to pass it out of the senate, but of course the republicans used their favorite toy--the filibuster.
The republicans are after all, just playing games, not really working.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I know of no company that would accept as part of their business plan, that having a website work 80% of the time successful. I know of no company that would accept the lack of security as the Obamacare website has. I know of no company that would not have programmed a way to pay the insurance companies a part of their website, and that it isn't even developed yet. That website is a disaster, chugging along to it's next train wreck destination. But what upsets me the most is how the Obamcultists refuse to admit how broken that site is. Who in their right mind would pay someone to build them a home and accept that only 80% of it is done as a completed project and it did not pass inspection to boot?


It's not working 80% of the time -- it's far better than that (90% and climbing) and will continue to improve. You needn't trouble yourself further:



> The Obama administration said Sunday that it achieved its goal of making HealthCare.gov work for the vast majority of users after the disastrous start of enrollment in the presidents signature health law.
> 
> The Obamacare website will be able to support more than 800,000 consumers per day, the administration said. And the site is now online more than 90 percent of the time, not including scheduled downtime for maintenance.
> 
> Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/obamacare-website-update-100494.html#ixzz2mNCDM994


There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans who are desperate to limit use of the ACA if they possibly can, and if they could make it fail completely, that would be even better.

This whole thing, this whole 'scandal' about the website is a canard and much ado about nothing. Yes, it was really bad that people couldn't get there from here, so to speak, but that's no longer true and was never going to be the ultimate fate of either the website or Obamacare itself.

What I'm getting at is that the website is NOT the Affordable Care Act, it's merely one small but important piece. Obama should never have allowed this much to-do over it. He should have accepted blame, apologized, and then firmly and resolutely moved on, disregarding all further complaints and media noise because by entertaining all the hoopla and reprobation, he let it DOMINATE the media when it was in no way that big a deal -- and certainly not a permanent feature.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break--you obviously have never worked in retail. In my late teens I worked for a drugstore and a grocery.
> As a checkout clerk I spent 7.5 hours every day standing in one spot on a hard linoleum floor--my back would spasm so badly towards the end of shift I'd bend over and not be able to straighten back up.
> As a stock clerk I was in charge of the medicine aisle...boxes that weighed 20 to 30 pounds had to be dragged out of the stockroom onto the floor...a hundred or more shelves of medicines had to be kept tidy, which meant arranging and rearranging them with my arms held out at shoulder level for hours at a time.
> Unskilled work? Yes. Non-strenuous? Absolutely not.


I agree Susan. Only those that have worked retail have a clue what it is all about. I at this point I have no discs left in my lower back, very painful.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> You bet they did. There were two. How many many republicans voted against Boehner to open up the government? There were so many wanted it to come to the floor that Boehner had to change the rules so no one else could bring it to the floor. They had a majority to pass it out of the senate, but of course the republicans used their favorite toy--the filibuster.
> The republicans are after all, just playing games, not really working.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree Susan. Only those that have worked retail have a clue what it is all about. I at this point I have no discs left in my lower back, very painful.


Ouch--that does sound painful. One of my brother's in-laws wrecked his back working as a professional mover--spinal fusion and weeks in bed eventually fixed the back, but the his days of hefting couches were over. :|


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How was your teenage years any different from others? We all did grunt work, then worked to improve our situation.
> 
> 20 pounds for a teenager is no big deal. My dog's food bags weigh much more than that.


And we all think we are invincible, and then find out we are not. At least try to show a little compassion for others. Would that be so hard to do?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Charity is mostly for the benefit of the donors, not the recipients.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Seems it just doesn't pay to talk to these "Three Stooges" NJG...... I say let them talk......
We'll just sit here and laugh at their stupidity. The more you let them talk, the dumber they get. Hey, I think that suits them perfectly....from now on I will consider them "The Three Stooges!" :thumbup:



NJG said:


> And we all think we are invincible, and then find out we are not. At least try to show a little compassion for others. Would that be so hard to do?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You should have worked on a farm. You, at least, had shifts that ended. I bet you had days off too. When there was work to do and the weather cooperated you worked. I can't say I threw bales, since we put up loose hay. It was more work than bales. The only job I did not do was clean the gutters, My dad always did that or the neighbor did it when He was sick. We had a milking machine, but if we lost power, we milked by hand. That happened often since there were only 3 more farms after ours on the electric line.
> 
> Then there was the garden a large one, we need to preserve the produce from the garden for the winter.
> 
> ...


Is this more of the bragging that shows insecurity? Look at how hard I worked, I worked harder than you so that means I am better than you. Blah Blah Blah. I grew up on a farm too, so what.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I understand where you are coming from. People who have not actually worked in a similar position do not know how tiring it is to actually stand on your feet, moving very little, for several hours. And all the while you have to remain pleasant, regardless of how nasty the customers can be. That is why the libraries I worked in had a two hour limit on counter duty. Only thing was, this did not apply to Saturday or Sunday work. Sunday work was OK, that was only 3.5 hours but most of us who worked Saturdays did a double shift, 9.00 am to 5.00 pm, and we were knackered at the end. I also know about shelving, but library shelving involved bending and stretching also. Trolleys loaded both sides with books are heavy.
> 
> I see someone has taken you to task, saying 20 kg is not heavy, their bags of dog food weigh the same weight. Yes, but does she have to lug the bag of dog food for hours every day?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Lugging a 20-pound bag of dog chow in from the car is no big deal--unless you have to do it ten times in a row and are suffering from arthritis, back problems, and/or pregnancy, as many older workers are. The point is that even unskilled jobs can cause wear and tear on the body--being a stock- or checkout clerk can't be called non-strenuous by any stretch of the imagination.


Which is another reason not to raise the retirement age. Someone who sits at a desk 8 hrs a day most of their working life is entirely different than a farmer or construction worker or a factory worker. By the time they reach 65 or 66 their body is wore out.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It's exploitation, to give someone a job? You would rather they would be homeless and beg?


It would be exploitation if we didn't have a minimum wage and a corporation hired someone to work in their factory for 2.00 an hour, when if we had the minimum wage it would be 7.25 or more. That is what would happen if we didn't have the minimum wage. That is what republicans want. I don't know why you all play dumb and act like you don't know what was meant, when you certainly do.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> She was whining about when she was a teenager, not today. I said we were all grunts at that age.


And some are still grunts at a lot older age, way past when they should be, but just trying to survive. Oh yah, that is those people that made poor decisions, I said it so you don't have to.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. To think Obama ha(d) the title at first of being a great orator. Obama is not an eloquent nor skilled speaker, he is barely a good teleprompter reader. Without his prompters, speech writers, scripts, monitors and press, he is worthless to form a coherent sentence on his own. I'm appalled when he does a press conference and refuses to answer the question, cannot answer the question, lies in the answer because he doesn't know, or intends to lie, or talks for minutes without saying anything.


Ronald Reagan was a great proponent of the teleprompter.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So you are paying others fire, life, car, and flood insurance too? Aren't there high risk pools for poor drivers. Aren't the flood insurance rates higher for those in a flood plain. Don't people who live farther from the hydrant pay more for fire insurance. Don't smokers and other who have severe illnesses pay more for life insurance. Just wondering how you came to your conclusions?


Lkholcomb answered this very well, but I wanted to add my thoughts as well.

Let's walk this through. You are an insurance company, okay? You are going to charge people monthly premiums and in return you "insure" them against loss if they experience it. That means you'll pay their bills if what you insured them for (or against) happens. Let's make it simple and call it car insurance.

If you charge me $100 a month (let's just use nice round figures) for my $20,000 value vehicle, and I pay you every month for 5 years, I will have paid you $6,000 by that time. Then, I get in an accident and fortunately, the only damage is fixable to the tune of about $1500. You, the insurer, are in luck: you made good money on me over that 5 years.

But let's say you also insured my neighbor, at the same monthly premium and for the same length of time so far (to keep the numbers simple to track). He's a really good driver, but something happened to distract him very badly, he didn't see the light change, and he hit another driver at fairly high speed, causing massive damage to his vehicle, her vehicle, and both he and the other driver had to go to the hospital. One car is totaled -- $20,000, and the other auto repair bill is $5,000. Then there are the medical bills. which his insurance is responsible for since he was technically at fault. Let's say they added up to an additional $10,000.

So, that accident cost the insurance company -- even after all their negotiations (and they're really good at it), $35,000 ($20,000 for the totaled car, $5000 for the other auto repair, $10,000 for the hospital bills). But in all that five years, he's only paid a total of $6,000 in monthly premiums, same as you did in the first example.

WHERE DOES THAT MONEY COME FROM?

If the insurance company doesn't have quite a few other customers paying premiums but not needing to file claims larger than the total premiums they've paid in, that company is going to go out of business FAST.

And yes, in many if not most circumstances people end up paying more when their likelihood of costing the company money goes up. That's what all those actuaries are doing, figuring out what kinds of things increase the risk for wbhich customers, and by how much so that premiums can be raised appropriately. There are also various state laws and regulations that govern such things, but in general, this is how it works.

So, it is absolutely true that YOUR insurance premiums, no matter what kind or to whom paid, go for helping to insure -- and pay for -- others who end up needing it more than you.

If that were not the case, what you'd have would be called a SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

Remember how your Republican friends wanted to introduce Medical Savings Accoounts?? Wonderful way for more people to contribute more money into the coffers of insurance companies -- sure, it'd be "your money," and they might even pay you a small amount of interest (or not), but they'd have the use of YOUR MONEY for as long as you let them or didn't need it yourself. Not really a good plan, IMO.



> BTW shouldn't adequate shelter and decent food be rights also. They may actually decrease the need for expensive health care. How about that?
> 
> Ya know we tried this same socialist way of living in the 60's. We called them communes. If memory serves me, they didn't do so well.


No, "we" didn't try socialsm in the 60s. A few people chose to live on communes, which were more communist. Commune? Communist? Get it?

What I am sure of is that there's a lot of socialism already going on in the United States and for the most part, those benefiting from it LOVE it.

The military is one huge socialist organization.

Every time we pool our resources to provide things that benefit all of us, or even certain segments of us, it's socialism. Our parks and recreation areas and national monuments. Our schools and libraries. Our roads. Our fire and police departments (most of them) -- they only benefit those who need them, but we're all perfectly fine with that (for the most part).

Medicare and Social Security, both of which have been paid into by recipients and are WILDLY popular, are socialist to the core, just as the Republicans fret.

So your fears about socialism are greatly exaggerated and unnecessary. This is NOT a country in danger of going fully socialist (and that wouldn't be nearly as bad as you've been led to believe); if anything, the danger is fascism, socialism's polar opposite. Many people say we're already there (and I'm probably one of them). Fascism, btw, is the merger of government and corporate power -- government of, by and for the corporations, you could say. Yep, sounds like we're pretty much already there in too many ways.

And the sad thing is that TPTB have some people convinced that's "freedom," conflating capitalism, an economic model, with our governmental model, which is a perfect recipe for fascism. Very dangerous, very inaccurate, and morally wrong IMO.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Another fanny heard from!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why should anyone buy insurance to help someone else. I am disgusted with Obama and his policies. Shame on him for turning America into a non-democratic country.


Unless you are very, very lucky, ANY insurance premiums you pay ARE going to "help" someone else, as I've just explained. It's the way all insurance works.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans who are desperate to limit use of the ACA if they possibly can, and if they could make it fail completely, that would be even better.
> 
> This whole thing, this whole 'scandal' about the website is a canard and much ado about nothing. Yes, it was really bad that people couldn't get there from here, so to speak, but that's no longer true and was never going to be the ultimate fate of either the website or Obamacare itself.
> 
> What I'm getting at is that the website is NOT the Affordable Care Act, it's merely one small but important piece. Obama should never have allowed this much to-do over it. He should have accepted blame, apologized, and then firmly and resolutely moved on, disregarding all further complaints and media noise because by entertaining all the hoopla and reprobation, he let it DOMINATE the media when it was in no way that big a deal -- and certainly not a permanent feature.


Hey, guess what? The republicans have STOPPED trying to repeal Obamacare in the house!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Poor girl. Now that you will have Obamacare, you can have surgery and have them replaced. What are you waiting for?


Because I don't have Obamacare, I have that socialist medicine, called Medicare, and I was told to avoid surgery by my orthopedic Dr.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The American Native Indians lost their rights to practice our religion when they signed the peace treaties & were forced to become Christians.
> 
> O I trying to to the same thing to us today my fording his Muslim religion down our throats! He want to do away with In God We Trust or anything with God/Jesus.


He's not Muslim and there's not a thing he's ever done to indicate he is. Rather, you forget, but he got slammed -- BADLY -- for being a long-time member of a certain Rev. Wright's church in Chicago. So badly he (stupidly and weakly) felt he had to quit that church, and did so.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Seems it just doesn't pay to talk to these "Three Stooges" NJG...... I say let them talk......
> We'll just sit here and laugh at their stupidity. The more you let them talk, the dumber they get. Hey, I think that suits them perfectly....from now on I will consider them "The Three Stooges!" :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Hi LL, I think some refuse to admit that they play twister with words. good to talk to you, have a good evening , I'm headed to the bedroom. gali


They twist absolutely everything. They like to pick fights. Thats why they are on the sight - the only reason.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. To think Obama ha(d) the title at first of being a great orator. Obama is not an eloquent nor skilled speaker, he is barely a good teleprompter reader. Without his prompters, speech writers, scripts, monitors and press, he is worthless to form a coherent sentence on his own. I'm appalled when he does a press conference and refuses to answer the question, cannot answer the question, lies in the answer because he doesn't know, or intends to lie, or talks for minutes without saying anything.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

In 1947 the house passed 395 bills
In 1995 the house passed 88 bills
In 2013 the house passed 55 bills.
The house is scheduled to work 6 full days in December. They haven't passed a farm bill, the national defense authorization bill, doc fix, needed for Medicare, transportation bill, defense policy, housing bill, bills that they pass every year. 
Remarkably the house did just pass a water bill that works with ports, flood protection etc which would create jobs. Wouldn't it be amazing if it actually made it all the way to the presidents desk. Don't forget that filibuster in the senate.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama gets blasted for suggesting the will of the people is his biggest barrier
> 
> _President Barack Obama does not seem to be too keen on the whole will of the people thing, based on remarks he made at a Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee fundraiser held in Seattle on Sunday.
> 
> While discussing with big money donors his efforts to fundamentally change the United States,* the president said the House of Representatives presents the biggest barrier and impediment to his idea of progress.*_


Newsflash: The House of Representatives may have been INTENDED to be the will of the people made manifest, but it manifestly is NOT under John Boehner. Again and again he thumbs his nose at what the people actually want, such as NOT shutting down government. Such as Immigration Reform. Such as a real Jobs Bill. And so forth and so on nd so forth and so on.

Now, for anyone who wants to say, "Well, the will of the people comes in where they elected a Republican-controlled House" with all those tea-baggers elected. Yeah, uh-huh. The various districts in Republican-controlled states are so jerrymandered that more votes went to Democratic candidates but they counted less than those cast for Republicans. (Not TOO un-American and un-small d democratic.)

And still their "elections" are being respected by the Democrats (more's the pity).

So why is it not part of the current picture that the man elected overwhelmingly TWICE isn't considered to be representing the will of the people when he promotes something he campaigned on, healthcare reform? And other things he was very clear about during both his camaigns.

Republicans are such hypocrites.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> v_Great Recession Dec 2007  June 2009_ Remember Democrats controlled the Congress Jan 2007 to Jan 2011


Uh, no:



> It wasnt until August- 2009 that Senator Kirk was appointed to Kennedys seat, and finally they had the 60 votes.
> 
> *That filibuster-proof 60 votes lasted exactly 4 months*  Not 2 years. Not 1 year. Not 6 months.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure most would--but changes HAD to be made in the system as a whole. Think what things were like in those days--no food stamps, no unemployment insurance, no minimum wage, no Medicare, no Social Security. People were expected (and did) work as long as they could stand, and if they didn't have family to care for them at that point they simply died. For those conservatives who favor laissez-faire capitalism--is this really want you want to go back to?


It's been said by many that FDR "saved capitalism" by introducing the various (quite socialist) safety nets that Republicans have despised all these decades and will not rest until they dismantle completely -- so we can go back to the vagaries of capitalism with its normal but brutal fluctuations in the business cycle, boom and then bust, boom and then bust. Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, some excellent and badly needed banking regulations, etc.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> One more time, the only reason to buy insurance is for the individual's protection, if something unforeseen happens. If it also helps pay for someone else's problem, so be it. But you do not buy insurance to help someone else.


Everybody who buys pretty much anything is paying for the down side of whatever's being sold. When you buy that box of Hamburger Helper, part of the price includes a little something to make up for the fact that some boxes of Hamburger Helper will be stolen from the grocery store's shelves.

It's just a hop, skip and a fart to the point where part of what you pay for what you mistakenly think is your own, individual health insurance includes a little something to pay for the folks who don't, can't or won't buy health insurance for themselves. Is this news to you? Are you really so out of touch that you don't realize what you're really paying for? If so, I've got a real nice bridge I can sell you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan was a great proponent of the teleprompter.


As was GW Bush. When the teleprompter went blank, so did he. Presidents have had speech writers for decades, so don't act as if Obama is the first one to use either. You always claim how educated you are, yet your posts show otherwise.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Were you expecting anything better, susan? We can do without her verbal flatulance. and one more thing. What makes you think she needs help? Not all Dems are on the "take" as you repubs state.
**********************************************


knitpresentgifts wrote:
Well, you know, she isn't interested in lifting a fingernail to help herself never mind others.


Another fanny heard from! 


susanmos2000


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Joey - what are you thinking? Work, expected from a teenager? Are you kidding me?
> 
> She'd be upset if she lost her internet or cell phone connection for 20 minutes never mind be expected to lift a 20 lb box or two. Pill bottles get heavy and tedious to place don't you know that?
> 
> ...


Satan has returned! She is pretty mouthy when she has only one to pick on. Go home KPG, the flames await you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Everybody who buys pretty much anything is paying for the down side of whatever's being sold. When you buy that box of Hamburger Helper, part of the price includes a little something to make up for the fact that some boxes of Hamburger Helper will be stolen from the grocery store's shelves.
> 
> It's just a hop, skip and a fart to the point where part of what you pay for what you mistakenly think is your own, individual health insurance includes a little something to pay for the folks who don't, can't or won't buy health insurance for themselves. Is this news to you? Are you really so out of touch that you don't realize what you're really paying for? If so, I've got a real nice bridge I can sell you.


Good point, Maid. And let me add too that denying folks health insurance saves absolutely zero dollars in the end. As others have pointed out, those folks who can't or won't buy insurance end up in the emergency room, where it costs taxpayers plenty. It seems that the ultra-conservatives are prepared to turn these folks away and let them expire on the street--happily the rest of America doesn't see it that way. But waiting until folks have slipped into a diabetic coma or are in the throes of a major heart attack before administering treatment simply isn't the way to go. It isn't cost-effective and, quite frankly, it's unbearably cruel and hard-hearted.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good point, Maid. And let me add too that denying folks health insurance saves absolutely zero dollars in the end. As others have pointed out, those folks who can't or won't buy insurance end up in the emergency room, where it costs taxpayers plenty. It seems that the ultra-conservatives are prepared to turn these folks away and let them expire on the street--happily the rest of America doesn't see it that way. But waiting until folks have slipped into a diabetic coma or are in the throes of a major heart attack before administering treatment simply isn't the way to go. It isn't cost-effective and, quite frankly, it's unbearably cruel and hard-hearted.


And the whole time they are quoting the bible as they sign bills to take food away from hungry children.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> What I find sadly missing in your post is the fact they should do nothing for themselves. There comes a time when individuals need to stop doing for others and let them do for themselves. Babies are taught to be independent in stages and are taught to take care of themselves as they grow into adults. Why shouldn't this apply to those on government assistance? Aside from the small percentage that really need all the help available, why can't the others move forward and start being responsible for themselves? Handling everything for people is keeping them down and out. I guess that's what you Democrats want overall. You don't want people able to take care of themselves, learn, grow, prosper on their own - it might just mean they will become too independent and think before they vote next time.


If the time to stop doing for others and letting them do for themselves means they have to face dire, unyielding misery, then it isn't time to stop helping them. Some people will never be able to do for themselves and NOT because they're lazy or any of the other bunkum you choose to imagine. This has absolutely nothing to do with political parties and votes. It has everything to do with caring about our fellow humans. Go ask your Jesus what he thinks about charity and pity and kindness. Are you trying to wriggle your way out of having to be your brother's keeper sometimes?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Were you expecting anything better, susan? We can do without her verbal flatulance. and one more thing.


I'm not expecting much, Patty--but given proper representation that derriere could be a STAR. What other set of butt cheeks is literate enough to follow Fox News AND peck at the keyboard between toots? Let's give credit where credit is due--that's one multitalented fanny.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not expecting much, Patty--but given proper representation that derriere could be a STAR. What other set of butt cheeks is literate enough to follow Fox News AND peck at the keyboard between toots? Let's give credit where credit is due--that's one multitalented fanny.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Do we really have to list our charitable acts? Really?


Here I've been thinking we were supposed to do good for the sake of doing good and that we were supposed to do good quietly and go on our way.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Give them H_ _ L BrattyPatty.


BrattyPatty said:


> Satan has returned! She is pretty mouthy when she has only one to pick on. Go home KPG, the flames await you.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I guess you are supposed to post your charitable giving till you've appeased the "Three Stooges", which of course you can't.....they'll find another useless topic to complain about.


MaidInBedlam said:


> Here I've been thinking we were supposed to do good for the sake of doing good and that we were supposed to do good quietly and go on our way.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Give them H_ _ L BrattyPatty.


LOL Nussa!
Those girls in your avatar are adorable!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I guess you are supposed to post your charitable giving till you've appeased the "Three Stooges", which of course you can't.....they'll find another useless topic to complain about.


If any of those 3 made it to heaven they would complain about the temperature.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Here I've been thinking we were supposed to do good for the sake of doing good and that we were supposed to do good quietly and go on our way.


That's the way I was taught, Maid. By the way, I love your word "Bunkum"!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They twist absolutely everything. They like to pick fights. Thats why they are on the sight - the only reason.


Sorry, LL, but that is not the reason we are on the site.
We are knitters like thousands of other women here. We are just interested in politics. When I see a lie I try and correct it so people won't be mislead. 
Why are you here?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you....my beautiful GDs. The love of Grandma & Papa's lives.
:wink:


BrattyPatty said:


> LOL Nussa!
> Those girls in your avatar are adorable!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My, what a stupid statement. Under Bush the unemployment rate hovered around 5.87%. Under Obama that rate has NEVER been under 8% and because Obama forced the way the rate is calculated to benefit him, the actual rate is more like 15% (higher for minority races). Food stamp handouts DOUBLED under Obama DURING Obama's watch. Obama has done NOTHING for jobs and the economy during the five years while he has been in office, and he doesn't even meet with his Jobs Council not that it would help. During Obama's term to date, not ONE, not ONE, job has been created. Obama touts 250,000 thousands jobs created over a five year period - whoopee - which is BS since those are part-time laborers AND he doesn't consider the millions of jobs lost which results in a NET loss of jobs; the NET result is zero jobs created under Obama's reign.
> 
> Here comes my favorite words to describe you again, IGNORANT of the FACTS.


So the old KPG who said she would never post in political threads again, who said "I could have died a thousand deaths for the way I am treated around here" is back.
Ignore her NJG. She'just a bunch of worthless hot air.
She's pissed off because the ACA and the website are moving with full sails ahead.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I take you have no idea what a MSA is. They were discontinued a few years ago. If someone still has money in one it can be used but no additional funds can be added.
> 
> We now have HSA's (Health Savings Accounts) It is a savings account that you control. It is not set up by any insurance company. First you need a High Deductible Health Insurance policy. The minimum deductible and the maximum out of pocket expense is set by the IRS each year. The HSA is set up at a financial institution that is authorized by the IRS to do so. The IRS allows the taxpayer to put pretax money into the account (limits are set by the IRS) to be used for medical bills. If you do not use all of the money that year, it can be saved to the next year or any year after that. You will not loose the account. But if you use the money for anything else there is a tax penalty to pay. All deposits and withdrawals from your HSA are reported to the IRS and also must be reported on your tax return.
> 
> I have many clients with HSA's and they are perfect for young healthy people. I have not found the IRS's new amounts for 2014. I have not seen the IRS's info on how the ACA will affect the HSA's. If you have questions see irs.gov


Well, aren't you supposed to be some sort of a tax preparer? Shouldn't you know these things? I mean January is just around the corner.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Thank you....my beautiful GDs. The love of Grandma & Papa's lives.
> :wink:


I know the feeling. We have a 15 MO old GD. She owns us!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know the feeling. We have a 15 MO old GD. She owns us!


 :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Can't stay (will try to be back later) -- but I just wanted to pop in and share this, from a handsome young man:


Thanks for the picture. I'll bet this guy will also walk into a life of sucess, too.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> I agree Susan. Only those that have worked retail have a clue what it is all about. I at this point I have no discs left in my lower back, very painful.


Take care, I know how painful lower back injuries are. They make you feel miserable and affect everything we do. Bending is impossible, walking can be agony but we must keep mobile otherwise we freeze up. It is selecting the correct movement, the correct posture and of course the correct pain killer. I have to watch that I keep my back straight and not bend forward from the waiste. A legacy of my childhood years spent ditch digging, wood chopping and tackling the rock hard clay in the garden with a pick axe ao mum could grow a garden.

My first husband did three discs in way back n 1966. It was three years before they operated and did spinal fusion. I always said he walked as if he had three sheets to the wind before he had his op. Now at 74 he still walks with a lean and still has co stant pain.

Ignore Joey's comment about you being a poor dear and now being able to have the discs in your back replaced. She is so full of tea and sympathy. Others here do understand and sympathise with you.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ouch--that does sound painful. One of my brother's in-laws wrecked his back working as a professional mover--spinal fusion and weeks in bed eventually fixed the back, but the his days of hefting couches were over. :|


I wrecked my back completely as a nurse. I worked on a floor with a large amount of people who had amputations, and many were obese. Even though we would have 6 people to boost a person (and we did it correctly) I would still end up with back injury. I ended up working through most of the shifts. I would literally get stuck in a chair when I sat down to chart because my back would spasm. Then I had a totally straight back when standing because of the spasms. The ENTIRE back (from neck into butt). I was in my mid twenties when my primary doctor put me on a lifting/pushing/pulling restriction of 10 pounds. TEN POUNDS! My back is still bad. And it is not at all hard to injure it. In the past 5 years it got injured and the spasms were so bad it literally pulled my spine straighter than it should be. That's how powerful the spasms are (and before anyone makes a smart a$$ed comment, no nothing will fix it).

It is entirely possibly for a young person to be unable to lift 20 pounds, and repetitive motion (like bending and straightening can set off back problems too).


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They twist absolutely everything. They like to pick fights. Thats why they are on the sight - the only reason.


Oh sorry, got my wires crossed. That is your mission isn't it? Sprouting **** just to be argumentative. And you do it so well.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Take care, I know how painful lower back injuries are. They make you feel miserable and affect everything we do. Bending is impossible, walking can be agony but we must keep mobile otherwise we freeze up. It is selecting the correct movement, the correct posture and of course the correct pain killer. I have to watch that I keep my back straight and not bend forward from the waiste. A legacy of my childhood years spent ditch digging, wood chopping and tackling the rock hard clay in the garden with a pick axe ao mum could grow a garden.
> 
> My first husband did three discs in way back n 1966. It was three years before they operated and did spinal fusion. I always said he walked as if he had three sheets to the wind before he had his op. Now at 74 he still walks with a lean and still has co stant pain.
> 
> Ignore Joey's comment about you being a poor dear and now being able to have the discs in your back replaced. She is so full of tea and sympathy. Others here do understand and sympathise with you.


There's no question that back problems are a serious issue. My oldest brother worked at a law firm that handled the estates of folks who died unexpectedly (usually by suicide), leaving their affairs in shambles. I remember poking through his papers once, and it was startling how many of these folks suffered from chronic severe back pain. The discomfort, the physical limitations, and the fact that there's no sure fix just pushed them over the edge.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Now you call it bragging, but according to you since I don't own my own business, I am a nobody. So which way is it?


Don't you get tired of attempting to put your words into other's mouths?

I never said because you haven't owned a business you are a nobody. Those are your words.

I *said* you and Nussa have no business telling all other business owners how to run theirs companies since neither of you understand business management and have no experiences with a business of your own. I also asked if either of you ever owned your own bus, and if not, why not. Both you and Nussa chose to brag about your life experiences instead as an answer, not me.

It amazes me that you cannot understand simple and basic questions yet manage to tell everyone and anyone how they think and behave, and better still, how they *should* do both as well.

No one can explain to you, your logic, since you display none.

I'm responsible for my own words and actions, not yours.

That is the way it is.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't you get tired of attempting to put your words into other's mouths?
> 
> I never said because you haven't owned a business you are a nobody. Those are your words.
> 
> ...


Toot toot!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Seems it just doesn't pay to talk to these "Three Stooges" NJG...... I say let them talk......
> We'll just sit here and laugh at their stupidity. The more you let them talk, the dumber they get. Hey, I think that suits them perfectly....from now on I will consider them "The Three Stooges!" :thumbup:


Too funny! You better check out who your friends are.

The Libs all dubbed themselves the "Stooges" and even sported avatars for weeks recently.

How typical that not one Lib buddy of yours cared enough about you to fill you in on making yourself the laughing stock and joke.

Guess you fit in well enough with the LWNs not to even matter to them either. 
:lol: :XD: :lol: :XD: :lol: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> You bet they did. There were two. How many many republicans voted against Boehner to open up the government? There were so many wanted it to come to the floor that Boehner had to change the rules so no one else could bring it to the floor. They had a majority to pass it out of the senate, but of course the republicans used their favorite toy--the filibuster.
> The republicans are after all, just playing games, not really working.


Don't you listen to the actual news? How many Republicans supported Cruz who did not filibuster btw? As usual, you have no idea of the facts.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan was a great proponent of the teleprompter.





BrattyPatty said:


> As was GW Bush. When the teleprompter went blank, so did he. Presidents have had speech writers for decades, so don't act as if Obama is the first one to use either. You always claim how educated you are, yet your posts show otherwise.


I'm surprised, rocky, you allowed BP to speak to you like this. She is vulgar to everyone, but you shouldn't put up with it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They twist absolutely everything. They like to pick fights. Thats why they are on the sight - the only reason.


They have to LL because there is no other way for them to refute the truth. The truth always prevails.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Were you expecting anything better, susan? We can do without her verbal flatulance. and one more thing. What makes you think she needs help? Not all Dems are on the "take" as you repubs state.
> **********************************************
> 
> Another fanny heard from!
> susanmos2000


I did not know Susan (Shemal) was a Republican. Wonders never cease! (I'm not a Dem either - but BP sure does confuse easily.)

That reminds me of when BrattyPatty (Teivel) told us that the House of Representatives is actually "The Congress."

Stupid is as stupid does.

:XD:  :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What filibuster?


 :thumbup: She (NJG) just makes it up as she goes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't you get tired of attempting to put your words into other's mouths?
> 
> I never said because you haven't owned a business you are a nobody. Those are your words.
> 
> ...


KPG,
It is so sad to know people are like this. Hateful, twist words to be hateful. How do people get to be this terrible? Childhood?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> OMG......I can't believe you have re posted that garbage. I have never seen MIB say anything that was worse than you have. As a matter of fact, what you have posted right here about her terminating a pregnancy is reprehensible. First off, it's none or your damn business. It is up to each woman to choose for herself if she wishes to go through with a pregnancy. As you can tell, I believe in a woman's right to choose. And what right do you have to take someone's personal life and drag it through the mud. I do not care if she posted it earlier. It was her post to make, not your post to use to spread your hatred. In my eyes, you are the lowest scum of the earth......May God help you.....because he's the only one who can.....Janeway.....you are the epitome of EVIL!


Well, you can take up for her, but she even slammed one of her own Demos on KP so don't talk to me about this crazy MIB as you haven't been around to know her. She bragged about aborting her baby!

Any pregnancy is a gift from God & should not "ever" be terminated as it is a person.

You said "may God help me". Yes he does daily as I'm living with a terminal illness & might be in the medical history books for my "long" life as most who have my illness have died.

Don't ever call me the lowest scum of the earth again as I believe you as your friends hate me because of my race. I have had plenty discrimination in my life so get lost!

You & I are through talking forever so go slam someone else!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

{knitpresentgifts, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ASKED ME & NJG:}

Quote: (Since NJG and Nussa know so much about business and economics I'd like to know if and if not, why not, each of them owns and operates their own business?

If they do, I want to know if they allowed a union to form within their organization and what they pay their workers - it better be well above the minimum wage since that is all they can harp upon (NJG specifically) - and what health insurance plans and other benefits they give to their employees.

Otherwise, just they are offering only noise and ignorant theories since they do not understand business nor how to create and run one.

I learned that the big protest of "Walmart employees" who walked in protest this weekend were not even employees of Walmart, but paid to walk in protest.

How pathetic is that? Overall, Walmart employees are thrilled to at least have the hours and wages they do.) :End Quote

{AND THIS WAS MY ANSWER ABOUT OWNING A BUSINESS:}

{Quote: (No, we don't own a business. Personally I don't know why anyone would want the headache that goes with owning a business. But that's just me. And yes....we like the union.): End Quote.

And now you're trying to back peddle and accuse us of bragging. Hey, you asked us a question! And I answered your question in full. And explained to you exactly how I have made my way in life. I guess you didn't want to hear anything about people succeeding in life. To me, it seems that you didn't get the stumbling stupid answer from us that you wanted, something you could rip apart, and instead, got an honest intelligent answer, that you couldn't rip apart, so you CLAIMED we didn't answer correctly. And as it was a question and not a test, there was no way we could get it wrong. I would think if anyone could answer questions about my life, it would be me, and NOT YOU!
And let me quote you....(AND THIS IS THE WAY IT IS!) End quote. }



knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't you get tired of attempting to put your words into other's mouths?
> 
> I never said because you haven't owned a business you are a nobody. Those are your words.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> It is so sad to know people are like this. Hateful, twist words to be hateful. How do people get to be this terrible? Childhood?


Lucy, these Demo's are becoming intolerable so I'm not posting to them, but reporting them to Admin.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you, Joey--economics is complicated, and I see no rhyme or reason to it. But something has gone terribly wrong, as evidenced by the gap between the rich and the poor growing as wide as the Grand Canyon. It's very strange that these days the virtues our grandmothers practiced--scrimping, saving, buying only with cash--are actually BAD for us as a nation. Remember those $500 checks the Feds sent out a few years back? The instructions that came with them were explicit: SPEND the money as quickly as possible on consumer goods, vacations, meals out etc etc--anything to jump start things. It's like our economy has become dependent on steroids--the drug of course being money and credit that doesn't really exist.


Wrong Susan as they were $100. Checks as DH & I received such a check. Get your facts straight!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

This I very true:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh no!......I'm horrified......I'm heart broken! Oh......how could this have happened????? Boo-Hoo.......People I don't even know had Three Stooges avatars.......I'm going to die of humiliation........NOT!!!
Oh Come on now KPG, you can do better than this....Oh, sorry, my mistake, I guess you can't......But keep up the lousy posts, you're doing great. :thumbup:



knitpresentgifts said:


> Too funny! You better check out who your friends are.
> 
> The Libs all dubbed themselves the "Stooges" and even sported avatars for weeks recently.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Here's a poster for you Janeway.....I know how much you love them.........


Janeway said:


> This I very true:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Wrong Susan as they were $100. Checks as DH & I received such a check. Get your facts straight!


Wrong, toots. I'm talking about the checks authorized by the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, under Bush. Proof positive of how horrible things became during his watch--a $600 check for virtually every American in a desperate attempt to jump start the economy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Good morning, Susan. I am amazed when someone who says they don't want to pay for someone else's health insurance doesn't understand that they're paying for all the uninsured people who usually get their health care in the ER. How someone can fixate on all those lazy, smoking, drinking, drug taking dregs of society, because we all know that anyone who can't afford/access health insurance HAS to be at fault, is beyond me.

You're right, denying health insurance doesn't save the insured one single penny. They actually end up with higher premiums to pay for those ER visits. Personally, I don't want to pay for that just as much as any conservative who's said on this topic that they don't want to pay for anyone else's health insurance.

The more people who can get health insurance, the better. So what if getting insurance through Healthcare.gov has been filled with technical problems? It's working a lot better now, and there are also state exchanges that are working just fine. California's "Covered California" is humming along and working very well.

Maybe our conservative friends are unaware of what it is they are really paying for whenever they buy anything. If they would stop and do a little research, they'd learn what I've said is true.


susanmos2000 said:


> Good point, Maid. And let me add too that denying folks health insurance saves absolutely zero dollars in the end. As others have pointed out, those folks who can't or won't buy insurance end up in the emergency room, where it costs taxpayers plenty. It seems that the ultra-conservatives are prepared to turn these folks away and let them expire on the street--happily the rest of America doesn't see it that way. But waiting until folks have slipped into a diabetic coma or are in the throes of a major heart attack before administering treatment simply isn't the way to go. It isn't cost-effective and, quite frankly, it's unbearably cruel and hard-hearted.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Lucy, these Demo's are becoming intolerable so I'm not posting to them, but reporting them to Admin.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You really shouldn't encourage her Lukelucy,.....it just makes both of you look ignorant. I mean...Admin. must have a huge file on Janeway listing all the people she's turned in...but yet here we still are.....So it's not doing any good....and making her look like a spoiled brat who didn't get her way, so she's going home to tell Mommy..... :roll:


Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh no!......I'm horrified......I'm heart broken! Oh......how could this have happened????? Boo-Hoo.......People I don't even know had Three Stooges avatars.......I'm going to die of humiliation........NOT!!!
> Oh Come on now KPG, you can do better than this....Oh, sorry, my mistake, I guess you can't......But keep up the lousy posts, you're doing great. :thumbup:


Nussa
Never fret at anything said by KPG. She's one of those who can't tell the truth from a lie, calls people names, and has not a gentle thought towards anyone among the less fortunate---while she quotes the Bible.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good morning, Susan. I am amazed when someone who says they don't want to pay for someone else's health insurance doesn't understand that they're paying for all the uninsured people who usually get their health care in the ER. How someone can fixate on all those lazy, smoking, drinking, drug taking dregs of society, because we all know that anyone who can't afford/access health insurance HAS to be at fault, is beyond me.
> 
> You're right, denying health insurance doesn't save the insured one single penny. They actually end up with higher premiums to pay for those ER visits. Personally, I don't want to pay for that just as much as any conservative who's said on this topic that they don't want to pay for anyone else's health insurance.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wrong, toots. I'm talking about the checks authorized by the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008, under Bush. Proof positive of how horrible things became during his watch--a $600 check for virtually every American in a desperate attempt to jump start the economy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said: Quote:
It wasnt until August- 2009 that Senator Kirk was appointed to Kennedys seat, and finally they had the 60 votes.

That filibuster-proof 60 votes lasted exactly 4 months  Not 2 years. Not 1 year. Not 6 months.

Just 4 months  from August 2009 to February 2010 - when Scott Brown was sworn in.

For further details: http://cjonline.com/blog-post/lucinda/2012-06-01/no-obama-did-not-control-congress-his-fi...

I have posted this several times, but for some reason the republicans prefer the lie as they keep posting it over and over. You would think after awhile they could accept the truth, but no, they like to lie I guess.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You hit the nail on the head, Eve. Thanks.
> 
> I stopped shopping at Walmart when I noticed grey-haired grannies trying to tug huge boxes of goods around the store--the clerk who looked about ten months pregnant--the cashier in leg braces using his arms to hold himself upright at the register. That these people accepted the jobs in no excuse for such treatment--in the 1930s and before, business owners fought minimum wage regulations by arguing that they didn't force people to work for them.


Just curious; what did these employees say when you asked them if they felt they were being mistreated? If they knew their job would require them to actually move merchandise around in order to stock the shelves? If the disabled cashier knew she would have to stand when at the register? I hope you explained to them how they are being so mistreated and showed them what is available for them to do in such cases. Never mind, your answer was to stop shopping at WalMart.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks alcameron, but I have their #s. According to Janeway, she's turned me in umpteen times already. It's becoming such a joke, I don't know why they're still here on this subject... They fell of the cliff of reality a long time ago.... :thumbup:


alcameron said:


> Nussa
> Never fret at anything said by KPG. She's one of those who can't tell the truth from a lie, calls people names, and has not a gentle thought towards anyone among the less fortunate---while she quotes the Bible.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What filibuster?


What do you mean, what filibuster. The filibuster used by republicans to stop what they don't like, which is everything.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know the feeling. We have a 15 MO old GD. She owns us!


Oh, you have that right. How many times have you heard a grand parent say, If I had known they were that much fun, I would have had them first. So true, loads of fun.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Just curious.......soloweygirl......Why do you keep asking people questions, then when you are finished with your rampage, you tell them not to bother to answer? 
Oh....I know.....it's because you know they're going to come off looking smarter than you, and you don't like that. Well, you're right 'IF' you do think that, because you do come off looking less intelligent than the person you're trying to belittle. Just saying!!!!


soloweygirl said:


> Just curious; what did these employees say when you asked them if they felt they were being mistreated? If they knew their job would require them to actually move merchandise around in order to stock the shelves? If the disabled cashier knew she would have to stand when at the register? I hope you explained to them how they are being so mistreated and showed them what is available for them to do in such cases. Never mind, your answer was to stop shopping at WalMart.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> Oh, you have that right. How many times have you heard a grand parent say, If I had known they were that much fun, I would have had them first. So true, loads of fun.


 :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Take care, I know how painful lower back injuries are. They make you feel miserable and affect everything we do. Bending is impossible, walking can be agony but we must keep mobile otherwise we freeze up. It is selecting the correct movement, the correct posture and of course the correct pain killer. I have to watch that I keep my back straight and not bend forward from the waiste. A legacy of my childhood years spent ditch digging, wood chopping and tackling the rock hard clay in the garden with a pick axe ao mum could grow a garden.
> 
> My first husband did three discs in way back n 1966. It was three years before they operated and did spinal fusion. I always said he walked as if he had three sheets to the wind before he had his op. Now at 74 he still walks with a lean and still has co stant pain.
> 
> Ignore Joey's comment about you being a poor dear and now being able to have the discs in your back replaced. She is so full of tea and sympathy. Others here do understand and sympathise with you.


Thank you Eve. Joey's smart a-- remark was already ignored.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe joeysomma was living under a rock, or was blind or deaf or whatever they have been saying to us, when we don't understand the unintelligible ramblings they go on.


NJG said:


> What do you mean, what filibuster. The filibuster used by republicans to stop what they don't like, which is everything.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> She was whining about when she was a teenager, not today. I said we were all grunts at that age.


Most places supply carts, of some form, to cart merchandise from the warehouse, back room, holding area, to the floor for stocking the shelves. Way back when, I used a homemade (by the owner) 2 tier cart to move merchandise. I did have to load the cart, but was not carrying the boxes across the store.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I take you have no idea what a MSA is. They were discontinued a few years ago. ... We now have HSA's (Health Savings Accounts) It is a savings account that you control. It is not set up by any insurance company. ... * The HSA is set up at a financial institution that is authorized by the IRS to do so. *


Ahhh, just like I said: they get the use of your money until you need it -- just as any bank does for money on deposit. I don't know if it's a better deal than regular insurance or not, but I know it's not something that is of any interest to me. But thanks for the explanation.

What happens if the money you need for your medical bills exceeds the amount you've "saved"?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. To think Obama ha(d) the title at first of being a great orator. Obama is not an eloquent nor skilled speaker, he is barely a good teleprompter reader. Without his prompters, speech writers, scripts, monitors and press, he is worthless to form a coherent sentence on his own. I'm appalled when he does a press conference and refuses to answer the question, cannot answer the question, lies in the answer because he doesn't know, or intends to lie, or talks for minutes without saying anything.


GQ (Gentleman's Quarterly) finally placed Obama on their 25 Least Influential People of 2013 list. POTUS came in at #17. This is GQ's list for "people who've overstayed their turn in the spotlight and used their fame for not a good goddamn thing." People are seeing the job he is not doing.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Knitry said: Quote:
> It wasnt until August- 2009 that Senator Kirk was appointed to Kennedys seat, and finally they had the 60 votes.
> 
> That filibuster-proof 60 votes lasted exactly 4 months  Not 2 years. Not 1 year. Not 6 months.
> ...


Aw, shoot. I'm sorry. I didn't see those posts. Sorry.

You know, as I've continued to watch the current crop of Republicans in Washington -- esp. Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, etc., I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that they can't seem to tell the difference between a lie and the truth -- that for them, the lie is just as good or maybe better. It matters not in the grand scheme of things.

Now I'm beginning to suspect the same thing is true of their followers.

It's depressing.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Wrong Susan as they were $100. Checks as DH & I received such a check. Get your facts straight!


No, I think you need to get your facts straight Jane. I think it was $300 and $600 for a couple and also more for dependent children. That was in 2008.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This I very true:


Republicans need to remember this for instance the lie they tell over and over that President Obama had complete control for congress for 2 years, when it was actually 4 months. They seem to just refuse to get it right.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Twisted that all around again, didn't you? Actually, what you said, doesn't even make sense. Because of your lack of empathy, you always assume that the poor are all the same, all good for nothings that refuse to work and take responsibility for themselves.


No, you assume that just because I can see the potential in these workers and can see they are better than what they are told to settle for that that equals no empathy. They are being held back by you Democrats/liberals who want them not to succeed so they will stay dependent. I want them to become independent so they can prosper. I want them to earn a living wage. In order for that to happen, they have to learn the necessary skills to get the jobs. There are plenty of jobs out there that cannot presently be filled because the present workforce does not have the necessary skills.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans who are desperate to limit use of the ACA if they possibly can, and if they could make it fail completely, that would be even better.
> 
> This whole thing, this whole 'scandal' about the website is a canard and much ado about nothing. Yes, it was really bad that people couldn't get there from here, so to speak, but that's no longer true and was never going to be the ultimate fate of either the website or Obamacare itself.
> 
> What I'm getting at is that the website is NOT the Affordable Care Act, it's merely one small but important piece. Obama should never have allowed this much to-do over it. He should have accepted blame, apologized, and then firmly and resolutely moved on, disregarding all further complaints and media noise because by entertaining all the hoopla and reprobation, he let it DOMINATE the media when it was in no way that big a deal -- and certainly not a permanent feature.


At the hearings, when the designers of the website were asked if they felt it was secure, ALL FOUR SAID NO. They didn't even hesitate. I'll take their word over yours anyway.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since when is 41 greater than 59? Who had the 59? It was *not* the republicans.


BECAUSE OF THE FILIBUSTER, THE DEMOCRATS NEEDED 60 VOTES TO PASS ANYTHING, 59 WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

Apparently everyone forgot the President needed 60 votes in the Senate to pass legislation. I heard a Latino news reporter say they felt if the President could pass healthcare, he could have passed immigration reform. Newsflash!! The healthcare bill was passed using reconciliation, because there were not 60 Democrats in the Senate. Immigration, Gay Rights could not be passed with the same process because it is reserved for budgetary matters. Youd think a reporter would know this stuff. The Stimulus was hijacked by the Republicans and job-creating measures were traded for tax cuts becausethere were not 60 Democratic votes to pass it. Anyway, you got that?

Now, to begin with, apparently no one remembers that Scott Brown was sworn into office in February of 2010. The President had only been in office for ONE year. Most folks remember that the election of Scott Brown reduced the number of Democratic senators to 59. So what damned majority are they talking about?

Ive written about this before in an article I called Occupy the Media, but I feel the need to repeat myself.

January 20, 2009  After suffering a seizure during Barack Obamas inaugural luncheon, Senator Kennedys health forced him to retreat to Massachusetts. Also Senator Al Franken of Minnesota had not been seated because the previous Senator, Norm Coleman challenged the results.

So at the beginning of his Presidency, Democrats had 58 sitting senators56 Democrats and 2 Independents.

Why do you think he had to compromise with Republicans on the Stimulus bill? He didnt have enough Democrats to pass the bill! Why dont you people who moan such disappointment know this?

April 28, 2009 news outlets issued the following report:

Republican Sen. Arlen Specter has switched parties, which would give Democrats a filibuster-proof 60 seats. You do remember the filibuster? The Republicans employed it more than in any time in history for the express purpose of stalling legislation.

Getting back to what I was saying. Despite the fact that the media hailed the party switch of Alen Specter and claimed it gave Democrats a filibuster-proof Senate, the Minnesota seat still remained vacant. The Senate had 57 Democratic members and 2 Independents. Techinically, the Senate was two members short, but Im counting Senator Kennedy even though he was at home ill because he did cast a vote in June. 59

May 15, 2009 Senator Robert Byrd was admitted to the hospital reducing the number of sitting Senators to 56 Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58

July 7, 2009 Al Franken (D) was sworn in after the election dispute over the Minnesota seat was decided in his favor. Senator Kennedy continued to recuperate at his home in Massachusetts and was unable to cast any more votes; Senator Byrd was still in the hospital. The Senate had 56 sitting Democratic members and 2 Independents. 58

July 21, 2009 Senator Byrd returned to the Senate making the count 59 seats. No Senator Kennedy.

Senator Kennedy died August 25, 2009.

The Kennedy seat was vacant from August 25  September 24 when Paul G. Kirk was appointed to occupy his seat until the completion of a special election. The swearing-in of Kirk gave the Democrats a 60-seat majority.

Democrats had a 60 seat majority from September 24, 2009 thru February 4, 2010. 4 months people; not 2 years!!

Democrats lost their 60 seat majority when Republican Scott Brown of Massachusetts was sworn into office in February of 2010.

But heres the most important detail that no one ever mentions:

REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED THE HOUSE, SENATE AND PRESIDENCY (BUSH) FROM 2001 TO 2007! SIX YEARS!

What purpose does the media serve? And why are Americans so damned dumb and easily led? This isnt some obscure fact, but no one gets it right. Its pathetic!

As for Morning Joe, I guess thats what I get for watching that stupid crap. I suppose I should count my blessings. at least I missed Peggy Noonan swooning orgasmically about that damned economy-crasher Ronald Reagan.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Not any more!


OMG, as someone just told me, you have to listen to the actual news. Harry Reid changed the filibuster only for the Presidents nominations, it is not for everything. No wonder republicans seem so out of touch, they really are!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Aw, shoot. I'm sorry. I didn't see those posts. Sorry.
> 
> You know, as I've continued to watch the current crop of Republicans in Washington -- esp. Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, etc., I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that they can't seem to tell the difference between a lie and the truth -- that for them, the lie is just as good or maybe better. It matters not in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> ...


NO reason to be sorry, no matter how many times you post something they still don't get it, and I think they prefer the lie. I just posted it again for Joey, it must be a real hard concept to grasp. Joey thinks Harry got rid of all filibusters, so I tried to set her straight on that too. Wonder how long that will take.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If the time to stop doing for others and letting them do for themselves means they have to face dire, unyielding misery, then it isn't time to stop helping them. Some people will never be able to do for themselves and NOT because they're lazy or any of the other bunkum you choose to imagine. This has absolutely nothing to do with political parties and votes. It has everything to do with caring about our fellow humans. Go ask your Jesus what he thinks about charity and pity and kindness. Are you trying to wriggle your way out of having to be your brother's keeper sometimes?


It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.

Seattle, I know the concept of a low skilled worker learning new skills in order to improve himself is foreign to you. I realize you don't want these workers to become independent and push to keep them where they are presently. You and your "friends" want them to stay dependent so the government can control their lives. I do not want this for anyone. I want them to prosper, or at least have the opportunity to do so. Democrats are killing the worker's ambition. Ambition = success.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> It is so sad to know people are like this. Hateful, twist words to be hateful. How do people get to be this terrible? Childhood?


There are always people at every gathering that others ask is so and so (NJG, BrattyPatty,Seattle) going to be there? Do we have to go? She's so mean. Yes, dear we have to go. Say hello and be polite, it's only for a few hours.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I think some republicans have completely lost control of their brains. 

Thanks to a petition drive that resulted in 4.2% of Michiganders voicing their minority opinion, Michigan is about to become a place where women have to plan ahead for their abortions. If you become pregnant accidentally or if you are raped and become pregnant and haven't purchased a separate abortion coverage rider on your health insurance, you won't be covered. This isn't just for state government insurance plans or those purchased on the health insurance exchange. It's for EVERY insurance plan available in the state.

Apparently no government is too small to get between you, your doctor, and your health insurer.

A controversial initiative that would require women to buy an additional rider on their health insurance if they wanted abortion coverage is one short step away from going to the Legislature, where it is likely to easily become law.

Because no one filed a challenge by Mondays deadline to the more than 315,000 signatures turned in to the Secretary of State, an initiative that would prohibit abortion coverage from being included in standard insurance policies will go forward.

And the Secretary of State certified Monday that Michigan Right to Life, which spearheaded the petition drive, has more than enough valid signatures to start the ball rolling on the new state law. A minimum of 258,088 valid signatures were needed. The anti-abortion activists turned in 315,477 signatures. And the Secretary of States elections division estimated that 299,941 of the signatures are valid.

The state Board of Canvassers will meet at 9:30 a.m. Dec. 2 to certify the signatures and then the petition moves to the state Legislature, which has 40 days to approve, reject or do nothing with the legislative ballot initiative.

If Republicans vote it down or fail to act on it, it will be a ballot iniatitive in the next general election. Neither of these is likely given their ideologically extreme views. If they pass it, it becomes law. The other 95.8% of us wont have a say and neither will Governor Snyder.

Oh and, by the way, most Michigan voters actually oppose the law.

Don't tell me there isn't a War on Women in Michigan being waged by religious conservatives in our state. The evidence is right before you.

If you want chime in, Planned Parenthood has a petition going asking legislators to allow ALL Michigan voters to have a say in this. You can sign the petition HERE.

UPDATE: For those who are asking how this is possible/legal, the process is called an "indirect initiated state statute". I've described how it works HERE. Challenging the legality of the law itself can't happen until it actually becomes a law so that may yet happen.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.
> 
> Seattle, I know the concept of a low skilled worker learning new skills in order to improve himself is foreign to you. I realize you don't want these workers to become independent and push to keep them where they are presently. You and your "friends" want them to stay dependent so the government can control their lives. I do not want this for anyone. I want them to prosper, or at least have the opportunity to do so. Democrats are killing the worker's ambition. Ambition = success.


Don't you realize that there are people that will never be able to rise through improving skills and/or education no matter what? Do you think everyone is average or above?? Do you realize that not everyone will prosper regardless of ambition? I can't believe how naive you are about certain things!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I have an excellent idea for you soloweygirl......why don't you give your money to all those ignorant, low skilled workers, so they can all attend college? Then they would all be as smart as you.....god forbid. You keep harping about all these ignorant minimum wage people who should be further educated so they can get better paying jobs.....And just where do you think all these great jobs are going to come from? Going to pull them out of you behind are you? So if you're so smart, how would you go about that? And what about those who have a mild learning disability? Would you take away their minimum wage job, and throw them out in the street to starve because they aren't mentally equipped to go to college? Don't you see how flawed you brilliant plan is? Get off the subject.....it's not doable.


soloweygirl said:


> It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.
> 
> Seattle, I know the concept of a low skilled worker learning new skills in order to improve himself is foreign to you. I realize you don't want these workers to become independent and push to keep them where they are presently. You and your "friends" want them to stay dependent so the government can control their lives. I do not want this for anyone. I want them to prosper, or at least have the opportunity to do so. Democrats are killing the worker's ambition. Ambition = success.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Republican's don't have brains, they only have deceit & greed.


NJG said:


> I think some republicans have completely lost control of their brains.
> 
> Thanks to a petition drive that resulted in 4.2% of Michiganders voicing their minority opinion, Michigan is about to become a place where women have to plan ahead for their abortions. If you become pregnant accidentally or if you are raped and become pregnant and haven't purchased a separate abortion coverage rider on your health insurance, you won't be covered. This isn't just for state government insurance plans or those purchased on the health insurance exchange. It's for EVERY insurance plan available in the state.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.
> 
> Seattle, I know the concept of a low skilled worker learning new skills in order to improve himself is foreign to you. I realize you don't want these workers to become independent and push to keep them where they are presently. You and your "friends" want them to stay dependent so the government can control their lives. I do not want this for anyone. I want them to prosper, or at least have the opportunity to do so. Democrats are killing the worker's ambition. Ambition = success.


Do you have any idea how many people there are that would love to go to college, but can not afford it. Everyone is different and not everyone is college material. There are lots of programs for people to get technical training, but again it takes money. If a person is working two jobs, they don't have much time to put towards furthering their education. We are killing no one's ambition and I guarantee you we know more about the people you spend a lot of time talking about than you do. You group them all together and try to make it sound like you care about them, and at the same time you think they are lazy. When you say things like we don't want them to become independent, you have no idea what you are talking about. I have two nieces who have been in this kind of situation and have taken the steps necessary to further their education and it was very difficult. I can guarantee you the things said by republicans on this site were discouraging and of absolutely no help to them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Don't you realize that there are people that will never be able to rise through improving skills and/or education no matter what? Do you think everyone is average or above?? Do you realize that not everyone will prosper regardless of ambition? I can't believe how naive you are about certain things!


I think the problem here is basic disagreement on what "getting ahead" means. Conservatives define it as having enough food, shelter, and medical care--liberals consider those the basic rights of all our citizens.
Needless to say, I take the latter view. Good grief, how far is someone suffering from undernourishment or untreated diabetes going to advance in this world? It's fine to talk about improving one's skills, night classes, etc etc--quite another for someone who doesn't have enough to eat to manage those things on top of a ten- or twelve hour workday.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For victims of a sexual assault see Michigan Law Section 400.1535.
> 
> For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay."


First time I've ever heard a rightie equate a baby with punishment. Unbelievable.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Most places supply carts, of some form, to cart merchandise from the warehouse, back room, holding area, to the floor for stocking the shelves. Way back when, I used a homemade (by the owner) 2 tier cart to move merchandise. I did have to load the cart, but was not carrying the boxes across the store.


Pushing and pulling a heavy cart can put a lot of stress on a back and cause back injury as well. That is why nowadays if they give you a "lifting restriction" (from a doctor) it includes pushing and pulling. I am reminded of a nurse I worked with who was out of work for 3 months because of a back injury from pulling a crash cart and defibrillator.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They changed it for one they will change it for anything Therefore, as far as I am concerned it is no more as long as the Democrats have 51 or more in the Senate. They will do whatever they want. They no longer believe the Constitution or 200+ year old rules are relevant.


Oh come on, you are just trying to cover up for your own stupidity. They still need 60 votes to pass a bill in the senate. They can do NOTHING with 51 votes on any bill. Talk about no longer believing in the constitution. That describes the republicans perfectly, shutting down the government, not passing any necessary bills, making the decision to block anything the president tries to do, no matter what it does to the country. Sounds like treason to me. Throw in some racism and you have a deplorable group of people.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> For victims of a sexual assault see Michigan Law Section 400.1535.
> 
> For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay." Anytime you would have sex there is the possibility of getting pregnant. Simple solution don't have sex unless you are prepared for the pregnancy.


Nothing in 400.1535 addresses abortion. Can you please point out where it is specifically mentioned? I've copied it below for your ease. (and section 400.1531-400.1535 all apply to sexual assault, none of which actually state abortion or termination)

_PS next time you want to list a law as something to prove your point it would probably be a smart idea to read it and highlight those areas that apply. Some of us are suckers for studies and laws (I read the entire penal code of my state one night because I couldn't sleep) _

400.1535 Expenditures; limitation; award of grants and contracts; manner; annual audit and report; rules.
Sec. 5.

(1) Money shall not be expended from the sexual assault victims' medical forensic intervention and treatment fund created in section 3 for the first year after the effective date of this act. Beginning 2 years after the effective date of this act, the board may expend money from the fund, as appropriated. Money in the fund shall be expended only as follows:

(a) At least 80% of the money shall be distributed to entities that do all of the following:

(i) Perform the procedures required by sexual assault evidence kits.

(ii) Provide specialized assistance to victims.

(iii) Operate under the auspices of or in partnership with a local sexual assault crisis center.

(iv) Comply with the standards of training and practice of the international association of forensic nurse examiners or a similar organization designated by the board in consultation with the department of human services.

(v) Provide access to medical forensic intervention and treatment services 24 hours a day.

(b) Not more than 15% of the money may be expended for medical forensic intervention related training and technical assistance for staff members and for needs assessment.

(c) Not more than 10% of the money may be expended for administrative costs incurred by the board in implementing and administering this act.

(2) The board shall distribute money under subsection (1) by awarding grants and contracts in a manner that reflects the population, geographic area, and rural and urban diversity of this state using criteria developed by the board in consultation with the department of human services.

(3) The board may require an annual audit of income and expenditures under this section and shall provide an annual report of incomes and expenditures to the secretary of the senate and the clerk of the house of representatives by February 1 of each year.

(4) The board may promulgate rules under the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328, to implement this section.

History: 2008, Act 546, Eff. Apr. 1, 2009


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There are always people at every gathering that others ask is so and so (NJG, BrattyPatty,Seattle) going to be there? Do we have to go? She's so mean. Yes, dear we have to go. Say hello and be polite, it's only for a few hours.


OMG - hilarious :thumbup:

I can only imagine having to attend a cocktail party with 'them' in the room. I definitely would 1) become an alcoholic in order to tune them out or 2) be the bartender to 'mix' their drinks in my own special way.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> At the hearings, when the designers of the website were asked if they felt it was secure, ALL FOUR SAID NO. They didn't even hesitate. I'll take their word over yours anyway.


I heard one of the four who said "no" say so again last night. He reiterated that the ACA website is absolutely NOT secure in any way, shape or form. I personally would not go anywhere near it (and haven't).

I have to wonder what Knitry is smoking to say it is secure. I don't read any of her posts, for obvious reasons, but assume she said the ACA site was secure and hence, the reason for your statement.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So as soon as our wonderful IRS publishes the information I will know.


Seems you are behind the times or the 8 ball.

http://www.accountingweb.com/article/limits-health-savings-accounts-increase-2014/221739

Please note the date on that posting is 5/3/2013.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.


Now, now Solo, don't knock anyone over the head with your new shovel, you could break it over 'nothing.'


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - hilarious :thumbup:
> 
> I can only imagine having to attend a cocktail party with 'them' in the room. I definitely would 1) become an alcoholic in order to tune them out or 2) be the bartender to 'mix' their drinks in my own special way.


All you do every time you open your mouth is prove how un-American you are, how offensive you are to other people, the lack of respect you show others. I could go on and on, but I won't waste my time. you just keep talking and show more of yourself.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> All you do every time you open your mouth is prove how un-American you are, how offensive you are to other people, the lack of respect you show others. I could go on and on, but I won't waste my time. you just keep talking and show more of yourself.


Need a drink? :-D It might just loosen you up so you could become a nice person for a couple of hours.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Supreme Court Rejects Challenge To Obamacare Employer Mandate

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/supreme-court-rejects-challenge-obamacare-employer-mandate-article-1.1534888


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you read the law? Doubt it! It has to do with the rights of a victim of a sexual assault (rape).
> 
> Laws do not always mean punishment!


I wasn't referring to the law but rather your comment:

"For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

A reporter ask John Boehner if the republicans would have a plan to replace the ACA in 2014. He had to think far a bit before he would answer and then said "We'll see." In other words, we just want to get rid of it and would not replace it. All those people that had no insurance would go back to having no insurance. We aren't for anything, we're just against everything


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> First time I've ever heard a rightie equate a baby with punishment. Unbelievable.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> Oh come on, you are just trying to cover up for your own stupidity. They still need 60 votes to pass a bill in the senate. They can do NOTHING with 51 votes on any bill. Talk about no longer believing in the constitution. That describes the republicans perfectly, shutting down the government, not passing any necessary bills, making the decision to block anything the president tries to do, no matter what it does to the country. Sounds like treason to me. Throw in some racism and you have a deplorable group of people.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This tells you what kind of people republicans are, and then they wonder why President Obama won the last two presidential elections.

http://aattp.org/shameless-california-gop-created-fake-healthcare-site-to-discourage-constituents-from-signing-up/


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Need a drink? :-D It might just loosen you up so you could become a nice person for a couple of hours.


Is that what you use? Something definitely addles your brain on a regular basis.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Need a drink? :-D It might just loosen you up so you could become a nice person for a couple of hours.


Most of us don't NEED a drink, I am not surprised that you don't recognize that. I think that you NEED a drink often.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wasn't referring to the law but rather your comment:
> 
> "For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay."


She just didn't get it


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> This tells you what kind of people republicans are, and then they wonder why President Obama won the last two presidential elections.
> 
> http://aattp.org/shameless-california-gop-created-fake-healthcare-site-to-discourage-constituents-from-signing-up/


Uh huh, and Mississippi's site was working so well the gov shut it down.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Do you see some racism here?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517281/Houston-police-white-girl-Landry-Thompson-African-American-legal-guardians.html


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Need a drink? :-D It might just loosen you up so you could become a nice person for a couple of hours.


Sorry but I don't NEED a drink. You need it more than I do, so you keep it, although I think you have proven it does not make you a nicer person. Maybe you should try drinking a little less.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Do you see some racism here?
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517281/Houston-police-white-girl-Landry-Thompson-African-American-legal-guardians.html


Wasn't that astounding? And why, if you think a 13 yo is inappropriately with two men do you handcuff her? 
Wouldn't she be a victim at 13? They handcuff victims in TX?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Boy is your brain in La-La land....I can't believe anyone would be that closed minded. Sometimes SHE might not want to play, but even in a marriage or relationship, has no choice. And the man gets off Scott free.......How many people do you know have their husbands arrested because he wanted sex, she didn't, and he did anyway?


joeysomma said:


> For victims of a sexual assault see Michigan Law Section 400.1535.
> 
> For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay." Anytime you would have sex there is the possibility of getting pregnant. Simple solution don't have sex unless you are prepared for the pregnancy.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MORE really good news:



> * Medicaid expansion becomes weapon against GOP governors*
> By Greg Sargent
> 
> Its widely accepted as an article of faith that Obamacare will be uniformly bad politics for Dems in 2014. After all, the rollout is a disaster and majorities disapprove of the law, so how could it possibly be any other way, right?
> ...


And then there's some bad news. It seems that Republicans in California are so desperate to make Obamacare fail, so desperate to keep suffering Californians suffering so that they can gain politically by forcing the ACA's failure, they've tried to sabotage the California website. They just don't care how blatantly they lie, cheat and steal. They have NO shame whatsoever:



> California GOP creates fake health care website to discourage constituents from obtaining insurance
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/02/1259641/-California-GOP-creates-fake-healthcare-website-to-discourage-constituents-from-obtaining-insurance
> 
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For victims of a sexual assault see Michigan Law Section 400.1535.
> 
> For other unplanned pregnancies: Remember the old saying, "If you play, you pay." Anytime you would have sex there is the possibility of getting pregnant. Simple solution don't have sex unless you are prepared for the pregnancy.


Tell that to a teenager. Human nature being what is really is, animal nature, one's little brain takes over and overrides common sense, Unplanned pregnancies have always occurred, abortions have always occurred, just saying NO does not work. Look at the pregnancy rate for teens in the Red States. Education is the answer, teach the children how to protect themselves, include sex ed and contraception in the school curriculum, not fairy tales for not having sex.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Can you BELIEVE this guy? From ABCnews:

Gov. Walker Urges Parents to Skip Toys and Send the Christmas Money to Him

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's re-election campaign has the cure for your holiday shopping fatigue: Take the money meant for children's toys and send it to the Walker campaign.

In a Black Friday fundraising email to supporters, the Walker campaign asked supporters for a holiday contribution to his re-election bid that will last another four years.

"This year, we are celebrating the Holiday Season with a Black Friday special that is better than any deal found in stores," Friends of Scott Walker's Taylor Palmisano wrote in an email.

According to Walker's campaign, toys are temporary, but political contributions are forever.

"Instead of electronics or toys that will undoubtedly be outdated, broken, or lost by the next Holiday Season, help give your children the gift of a Wisconsin that we can all be proud of," Palmisano continued.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Tell that to a teenager. Human nature being what is really is, animal nature, one's little brain takes over and overrides common sense, Unplanned pregnancies have always occurred, abortions have always occurred, just saying NO does not work. Look at the pregnancy rate for teens in the Red States. Education is the answer, teach the children how to protect themselves, include sex ed and contraception in the school curriculum, not fairy tales for not having sex.


Bingo!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Report on tv says most health care needs are by people who are obese.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Report on tv says most health care needs are by people who are obese.


Throw 'em in jail?
Pay their dues at Weight Watchers?
Take fat and sugar off the market?
Tax doughnuts?
I don't doubt that obese people in general may have a lot of health issues.
I suppose you want to be in an insurance pool that bars obese people?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Are we now going to pick on the overweight people? Let's face it.....people stopped taking care of their health quite some time ago....more junk food and less activity. And I'll bet that every family has at least one if not more overweight relative.


Lukelucy said:


> Report on tv says most health care needs are by people who are obese.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Tell that to a teenager. Human nature being what is really is, animal nature, one's little brain takes over and overrides common sense, Unplanned pregnancies have always occurred, abortions have always occurred, just saying NO does not work. Look at the pregnancy rate for teens in the Red States. Education is the answer, teach the children how to protect themselves, include sex ed and contraception in the school curriculum, not fairy tales for not having sex.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Yes, explain the truth to them. In my youth it was said that more Catholic school girls had unplanned teenage pregnancies than state school girls because they had not been taught about protection. They said good girls got caught, not naughty girls because naughty girls knew about protection. Catholic schools then were single sex schools as the children were separated into different schools from year 4. The school buildings were not next to each other, they were not even in the same vicinity as each other. The idea was to keep us apart but it only heightened the mystery.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

NJG said:


> All you do every time you open your mouth is prove how un-American you are, how offensive you are to other people, the lack of respect you show others. I could go on and on, but I won't waste my time. you just keep talking and show more of yourself.


Unfortunately a lot of people who do not live in the USA judge all Americans by her, and her cronies, mutterings. They think all Americans are just like them.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Need a drink? :-D It might just loosen you up so you could become a nice person for a couple of hours.


Please do not make such silly comments. My father was an alcoholic and I still have vivid memories of his drunken stupidity. I had the same thing said to me when I was a teenager and it only made me furious. I could not stand the smell of alcohol, besides I wanted to know what I was doing and not wake up next morning not remembering. That is why I do not like my next door neighbour, he always has a cigarette in one hand and a bottle of booze in the other. Twenty three years ago he kept trying to get me to share a bottle over the back fence. I would check to see if he was outside before I would go outside. A new 6ft colourbond fence stopped that, he could no longer see into my yard and could not see me to offer me a smoke or some grog. I do not smoke either.

No, I am not a wowser, I will have a drink, a cold beer on a really hot day or a good brandy or scotch nightcap, but I do not grog on. But I have never attended a cocktail party, I have never wanted to either. That was something they did in movies. People standing around with glasses of grog in their hands, eating ittey bittey food things whilst talking jibberish to people you did not really like. I believe people attend these social events to be seen there, to be seen as part of the 'in' crowd.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Report on tv says most health care needs are by people who are obese.


Funny thing though. I am the overweight one, my ex weighed the same at 73 as he did when he was 17. He was slim. He died suddenly on April 1st from a massive coronary, he did not have heart problems and kept himself extremely fit with hard work. He ran marathons into his 60s. PM revealed no enlarged heart muscles no blocked blood vessels, but he was dead within a few hours after he first experienced the pain. He thought he had torn a muscle in his back. Now me, I have a mammoth battle with weight due to hypothyroidism, controlled by medication. But weight gain and excessive tiredness are my twin battles. I go to the gym at least three times a week, I was going six times a week but had to cut back due to osteo arthrisis, the doctor's orders. Now, fat, obese old me is still here, all blood tests coming in within the range, whilst my super fit, slim ex has karked it. No, not all fat people are unhealthy. Skinny people also need health insurance.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Funny thing though. I am the overweight one, my ex weighed the same at 73 as he did when he was 17. He was slim. He died suddenly on April 1st from a massive coronary, he did not have heart problems and kept himself extremely fit with hard work. He ran marathons into his 60s. PM revealed no enlarged heart muscles no blocked blood vessels, but he was dead within a few hours after he first experienced the pain. He thought he had torn a muscle in his back. Now me, I have a mammoth battle with weight due to hypothyroidism, controlled by medication. But weight gain and excessive tiredness are my twin battles. I go to the gym at least three times a week, I was going six times a week but had to cut back due to osteo arthrisis, the doctor's orders. Now, fat, obese old me is still here, all blood tests coming in within the range, whilst my super fit, slim ex has karked it. No, not all fat people are unhealthy. Skinny people also need health insurance.


So very true, Eve. My paternal grandparents were the opposite of fit--she weighed a ton, he smoked and drank--but lived until their late 70s. Two of their grandsons (my brothers) were the model of health--one died at 44 of a heart attack, the other has stage 4 cancer.
None of us are immortal--even those with exemplary lifestyles and perfect genes can be mowed down by a car in the blink of an eye.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

J


EveMCooke said:


> Funny thing though. I am the overweight one, my ex weighed the same at 73 as he did when he was 17. He was slim. He died suddenly on April 1st from a massive coronary, he did not have heart problems and kept himself extremely fit with hard work. He ran marathons into his 60s. PM revealed no enlarged heart muscles no blocked blood vessels, but he was dead within a few hours after he first experienced the pain. He thought he had torn a muscle in his back. Now me, I have a mammoth battle with weight due to hypothyroidism, controlled by medication. But weight gain and excessive tiredness are my twin battles. I go to the gym at least three times a week, I was going six times a week but had to cut back due to osteo arthrisis, the doctor's orders. Now, fat, obese old me is still here, all blood tests coming in within the range, whilst my super fit, slim ex has karked it. No, not all fat people are unhealthy. Skinny people also need health insurance.


I'm the most obese one in our family. I never used to be, but I was put on medicines to keep me alive, then medicines for my epilepsy, and more. Unfortunately they made me gain weight. Then on top of that my mobility has decreased due to medical conditions, so I can't just "get up and walk it off". People don't take into consideration the many people who are on medications that make them gain weight.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

_BarackObama breaks through the 40% floor. Downwards._
By: Moe Lane December 3rd, 2013

Feast your eyes on this one, folks: (graph moved to bottom of post)

 It shows that Barack Obama has dipped below an average 40% job approval rating on RCP. 

That more or less means that any policy-making that the Democrats want to do next year will likely not feature the Presidents help; and, of course, that Barack Obama will have plenty of time to practice his golf swing during the summer and fall of 2014. Only the Democrats would prefer that he do that in states that do not have a Democratic Senator up for re-election, OK?

Now, Im not saying that the Democrats are panicking. What they are doing right now is quietly checking to make sure that their second and third lines of defense are adequately stocked and supplied. You know. Just in case.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I guess you are supposed to post your charitable giving till you've appeased the "Three Stooges", which of course you can't.....they'll find another useless topic to complain about.


They'll never be appeased. The only charitable giving I feel like mentioning I do is putting money in the Salvation Army's little red buckets because the bell-ringing means Christmas is coming.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They'll never be appeased. The only charitable giving I feel like mentioning I do is putting money in the Salvation Army's little red buckets because the bell-ringing means Christmas is coming.


I was very proud of my son in law when he took my granddaughter to be a bell ringer with him the last couple years. She was 3 1/2 when she went the first time and of course when people see this cute little thing standing there, they have to put money in the kettle. She loved it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's the way I was taught, Maid. By the way, I love your word "Bunkum"!


Please use it freely and frequently. It's an excellent word to use when posting on this topic. We are often hip deep in bunkum around here. I couldn't help looking it up because I knew it was an early 19th century term but didn't remember the whole story which is amusing and has a fine political history. Here it is:

"Bunkum", 1830s, from buncombe, from speaking to Buncombe (or for Buncombe) from Buncombe County, North Carolina, named for Edward Buncombe.

In 1820, Felix Walker, who represented Buncombe County, North Carolina, in the U.S. House of Representatives, rose to address the question of admitting Missouri as a free or slave state. This was his first attempt to speak on this subject after nearly a month of solid debate and right before the vote was to be called. Allegedly, to the exasperation of his colleagues, Walker insisted on delivering a long and wearisome "speech for Buncombe."

He was shouted down by his colleagues. His persistent effort made "buncombe", later respelled "bunkum", a synonym for meaningless political claptrap and later for any kind of nonsense. Although he was unable to make the speech in front of Congress it was still published in a Washington newspaper. The term became a joke and metaphor in Washington, then entered common usage.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Did everyone hear on the news about the father who tried to sign up for insurance and said they wouldn't cover babies. Fox news ran with that story and John Boehner tweeeted about it. Are these folks so desperate for a bad story about the ACA that they don't even check it out before they run with it. That is desperate. They have stopped trying to repeal it now as starting the first of the year people will be covered and then they would be taking insurance away from people. So I wonder what their game plan will be then.
This father ran for public office on the conservative ticket so I bet he was loving every minute of retelling this garbage, that turned out to be his mistake, on purpose or not, we will never know, but he got his 1 minute of fame.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> GQ (Gentleman's Quarterly) finally placed Obama on their 25 Least Influential People of 2013 list. POTUS came in at #17. This is GQ's list for "people who've overstayed their turn in the spotlight and used their fame for not a good goddamn thing." People are seeing the job he is not doing.


Do you actually think GQ is a good source about rating the President's influence? Pretty scary...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Lucy, these Demo's are becoming intolerable so I'm not posting to them, but reporting them to Admin.


Not posting to them? How about your post to susanmos2000 that comes right after the one quoted above? Kinda seems like a post to one of the intolerable Demo's to me.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I have an excellent idea for you soloweygirl......why don't you give your money to all those ignorant, low skilled workers, so they can all attend college? Then they would all be as smart as you.....god forbid. You keep harping about all these ignorant minimum wage people who should be further educated so they can get better paying jobs.....And just where do you think all these great jobs are going to come from? Going to pull them out of you behind are you? So if you're so smart, how would you go about that? And what about those who have a mild learning disability? Would you take away their minimum wage job, and throw them out in the street to starve because they aren't mentally equipped to go to college? Don't you see how flawed you brilliant plan is? Get off the subject.....it's not doable.


You are the one calling them ignorant. I never said they were ignorant, just low skilled. Skills can be improved and new ones learned on the job if the person is willing, college isn't always the answer. Why are you so against anyone improving themselves? Why do you want everyone to be dependent on the government? FYI even those with a mild learning disability can and do learn new skills, whether from a classroom setting or on the job. Maybe they are the ones that should be calling you ignorant.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are the one calling them ignorant. I never said they were ignorant, just low skilled. Skills can be improved and new ones learned on the job if the person is willing, college isn't always the answer. Why are you so against anyone improving themselves? Why do you want everyone to be dependent on the government? FYI even those with a mild learning disability can and do learn new skills, whether from a classroom setting or on the job. Maybe they are the ones that should be calling you ignorant.


You are missing the point, Solowey. Wanting to further one's skills and get ahead in the world is commendable--but no one should have to do so to provide for basic things like food and shelter. And if that sounds like a soft and bleeding-heart attitude to you, ask yourself this: are you truly prepared to watch people freeze and starve on our public streets rather than allow the government to assist them?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I heard one of the four who said "no" say so again last night. He reiterated that the ACA website is absolutely NOT secure in any way, shape or form. I personally would not go anywhere near it (and haven't).
> 
> I have to wonder what Knitry is smoking to say it is secure. I don't read any of her posts, for obvious reasons, but assume she said the ACA site was secure and hence, the reason for your statement.


Knitry said "There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans ..."

I believe the 4 people that were responsible for the design and construction of the website when they say it is not secure, not someone that can't stay away from the Kool Aid machine.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It's a good thing one of the presents I received this holiday weekend was a new shovel. One with a nice strong shaft, so I am able to shovel out all the BS. It certainly is getting thick around here.
> 
> Seattle, I know the concept of a low skilled worker learning new skills in order to improve himself is foreign to you. I realize you don't want these workers to become independent and push to keep them where they are presently. You and your "friends" want them to stay dependent so the government can control their lives. I do not want this for anyone. I want them to prosper, or at least have the opportunity to do so. Democrats are killing the worker's ambition. Ambition = success.


Saying some people will never be able to do for themselves is merely stating the truth. It has nothing to do with their level of ambition or starting a job at the first, lowest level and working their way up. It has everything to do with the sad fact that some people can't become independent no matter how much they want to be and/or how hard they work to become so. I happen to hope that group of people will be as small as possible.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Knitry said "There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans ..."
> 
> I believe the 4 people that were responsible for the design and construction of the website when they say it is not secure, not someone that can't stay away from the Kool Aid machine.


Ok, thanks. She is completely lost! The President's approval rating has tanked and the approval of Obamacare is worse. The Dems are all scared to death about the 2014 elections, and I'm happy to point out that every single Dem voted for and approved the ACA and every single Repub voted against the ACA.

Looks like complete takeover of the WH, Senate and House to override the stupid decision of the Dems to push the ACA and the ultimate single-payer system. Americans never wanted it and, now, understand the lies they've been told by Obama and this Admin again and again.

Even Obama sounded defeated yesterday. Instead of his usual rally of support for the ACA, his words were to the effect of, "It will be the law as long as I'm President."

Best news I've heard in a long while; short term for him and the stupid law = great news!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

And now, we can all sigh a sigh of relief, the ultimate bit of good news re Obamacare:



> *Supreme Court dismisses challenge to Obamacare mandate*
> The last, great hope of Republicans to see Obamacare killed outright is officially dead. They haven't been able to repeal it. They ran a presidential campaign on ending it, and were overwhelmingly rejected. The Supreme Court decided not to overturn the entire law once already, and has now dismissed the last big case challenging the underpinnings of the law.
> 
> The court rejected a petition filed by Liberty University, a Christian college in Virginia, which had raised various objections to the law, including to the key provision that requires individuals to obtain health insurance. ...
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Oh, and I wanted to share this, as well. I had NO IDEA all this good stuff re Medicare:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You are missing the point, Solowey. Wanting to further one's skills and get ahead in the world is commendable--but no one should have to do so to provide for basic things like food and shelter. And if that sounds like a soft and bleeding-heart attitude to you, ask yourself this: are you truly prepared to watch people freeze and starve on our public streets rather than allow the government to assist them?


You think it's commendable, but you are obviously against it. I have NEVER said that people should freeze and starve to death or they should be taken off of government assistance right now. Those are your and your friends words, not mine. However, I am saying that increasing the minimum wage is not the solution.
People need better skills to get better jobs, the jobs that will provide a living wage for the workers. There are jobs out there that can't be filled presently because there are no skilled workers to fill them. There is nothing wrong with blue collar jobs, not everyone will or should attend college. The 60B wasted on the green energy jobs could have put an enormous number of unskilled workers into tech schools to learn new skills and trades. Bringing back the older training programs would have benefited the country, rather wasting it on green energy (non)jobs. You are arguing for unskilled/low skills jobs to be the main stay of the country and that is just wrong. This country deserves better.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You think it's commendable, but you are obviously against it. I have NEVER said that people should freeze and starve to death or they should be taken off of government assistance right now. Those are your and your friends words, not mine. However, I am saying that increasing the minimum wage is not the solution.
> People need better skills to get better jobs, the jobs that will provide a living wage for the workers. There are jobs out there that can't be filled presently because there are no skilled workers to fill them. There is nothing wrong with blue collar jobs, not everyone will or should attend college. The 60B wasted on the green energy jobs could have put an enormous number of unskilled workers into tech schools to learn new skills and trades. Bringing back the older training programs would have benefited the country, rather wasting it on green energy (non)jobs. You are arguing for unskilled/low skills jobs to be the main stay of the country and that is just wrong. This country deserves better.


Americans sure do deserve better. The Unions were given waivers to keep their hands into the pot so more $ go to them rather than the workers. (the same reason the Unions 'stage' protests against Walmart.) Those who do sign up for the ACA will get the waivers if they are those whose income is so low they will be subsidized by all other Americans.

Medicaid takes care of anyone who bothers to apply for assistance in food and shelter and for those who cannot work and are truly needy.

The ACA was to insure 15 million more Americans without insurance. Instead, 80-100 million will become un-insured because of the ACA.

My husband works with Developers who volunteered their time (complimentary) to fix the website; as predicted, the Admin refused to accept their help.

Obama and his Admin wants the ACA (not just the website) to fail, as it is and will, so he can push for what he and the Progressive Dems really want; Government Controlled Healthcare = single payer system.

It'll never happen and Obama has ruined his legacy.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ok, thanks. She is completely lost! The President's approval rating has tanked and the approval of Obamacare is worse. The Dems are all scared to death about the 2014 elections, and I'm happy to point out that every single Dem voted for and approved the ACA and every single Repub voted against the ACA.
> 
> Looks like complete takeover of the WH, Senate and House to override the stupid decision of the Dems to push the ACA and the ultimate single-payer system. Americans never wanted it and, now, understand the lies they've been told by Obama and this Admin again and again.
> 
> ...


It is obvious that the more people learn about the bill, the more they dislike it.

Now they are saying that 1/3 of those that have signed up might be in for a shock come January when they learn that they really haven't signed up at all. It seems that the part of the website that handles the payment has not been built yet. If you haven't paid for your policy by Dec. 15th (I think), then come January 1, you are uninsured. Flaws, flaws and more flaws. We certainly got our money's worth for the 500M we paid.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Obama and his Admin wants the ACA (not just the website) to fail, as it is and will, so he can push for what he and the Progressive Dems really want; Government Controlled Healthcare = single payer system.
> 
> It'll never happen and Obama has ruined his legacy.


If that happens, there will be many more doctors opting out and turning to cash only practices.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It is obvious that the more people learn about the bill, the more they dislike it.
> 
> Now they are saying that 1/3 of those that have signed up might be in for a shock come January when they learn that they really haven't signed up at all. It seems that the part of the website that handles the payment has not been built yet. If you haven't paid for your policy by Dec. 15th (I think), then come January 1, you are uninsured. Flaws, flaws and more flaws. We certainly got our money's worth for the 500M we paid.


I heard that as well. Can you imagine; you are in need of surgery, meds, a check up or sick visit services. You go to the place of service and SURPRISE you are rejected because you don't have any insurance since the website you registered on CANNOT ACCEPT payments (yet).

What a perfect example of how govt cannot do most things well that should be handled by the private sector.

I believe this horrendous law will be the start of a revolt by Americans unless the law fails on its own first (most likely).


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If that happens, there will be many more doctors opting out and turning to cash only practices.


Yep - as the Repub predicted long ago.

How ironic - those who don't have health insurance, and many without jobs, will now be forced to pay cash to see a doctor.

Like that is possible?

Typical Dem plan - created a system that fails and is impossible to use and force it on Americans and tell them it is good for them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You think it's commendable, but you are obviously against it. I have NEVER said that people should freeze and starve to death or they should be taken off of government assistance right now. Those are your and your friends words, not mine. However, I am saying that increasing the minimum wage is not the solution.
> People need better skills to get better jobs, the jobs that will provide a living wage for the workers. There are jobs out there that can't be filled presently because there are no skilled workers to fill them. There is nothing wrong with blue collar jobs, not everyone will or should attend college. The 60B wasted on the green energy jobs could have put an enormous number of unskilled workers into tech schools to learn new skills and trades. Bringing back the older training programs would have benefited the country, rather wasting it on green energy (non)jobs. You are arguing for unskilled/low skills jobs to be the main stay of the country and that is just wrong. This country deserves better.


I don't totally disagree with what you've said, Soloway. It's obvious that positions at Walmart and McDonald's can never pay enough to support a family--really, not even a single individual. The question is why so many people are compelled to try to eke out an existence from these low-paying positions. I don't feel that it's necessarily laziness, lack of ability, lack of ambition etc. One possibility is that to get by folks have to work two or three of these jobs simultaneously to make ends meet--and someone working 10 or 12 hours per day is unlikely to have the time or energy to get themselves to night school or vocational classes.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I heard that as well. Can you imagine; you are in need of surgery, meds, a check up or sick visit services. You go to the place of service and SURPRISE you are rejected because you don't have any insurance since the website you registered on CANNOT ACCEPT payments (yet).


A terrible scenario--and one that obviously pleases you to your very core. You really are an appalling specimen, KPG.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> A terrible scenario--and one that obviously pleases you to your very core. You really are an appalling specimen, KPG.


Get a life Shemal. I'm just as disgusted as you SHOULD BE by Obama's and the Dems' FAILED plan to take care of Americans.

Obviously, hurting and insulting others is ALL that pleases you.


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## MrsMurdog (Apr 16, 2013)

I don't want to read all 36+ pages of comments, but wanted to share this with everyone.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Tell that to a teenager. Human nature being what is really is, animal nature, one's little brain takes over and overrides common sense, Unplanned pregnancies have always occurred, abortions have always occurred, just saying NO does not work. Look at the pregnancy rate for teens in the Red States. Education is the answer, teach the children how to protect themselves, include sex ed and contraception in the school curriculum, not fairy tales for not having sex.


Sex Ed IS Birth Control ! 
:thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Knitry said "There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans ..."
> 
> I believe the 4 people that were responsible for the design and construction of the website when they say it is not secure, not someone that can't stay away from the Kool Aid machine.


Here's the deal. There's no customer information on the website of any value or worth stealing. Be gravely concerned about it if YOU want to be; I'm far more concerned about Facebook (and hardly ever use it any more as a result).


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ok, thanks. She is completely lost! The President's approval rating has tanked and the approval of Obamacare is worse. The Dems are all scared to death about the 2014 elections, and I'm happy to point out that every single Dem voted for and approved the ACA and every single Repub voted against the ACA.
> 
> Looks like complete takeover of the WH, Senate and House to override the stupid decision of the Dems to push the ACA and the ultimate single-payer system. Americans never wanted it and, now, understand the lies they've been told by Obama and this Admin again and again.
> 
> ...


Dream on, that's a right pretty fiction you've got going for yourself.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Americans sure do deserve better. The Unions were given waivers to keep their hands into the pot so more $ go to them rather than the workers. (the same reason the Unions 'stage' protests against Walmart.) Those who do sign up for the ACA will get the waivers if they are those whose income is so low they will be subsidized by all other Americans.
> 
> Medicaid takes care of anyone who bothers to apply for assistance in food and shelter and for those who cannot work and are truly needy.
> 
> ...


Every time I think I've seen it all -- delusion-wise -- one of you comes along to upstage all the others so far with your delusional rants. This one takes the cake. I'm almost laughing -- were it not so sad that someone actually believes any of this, I would laugh.

There's only one thing I'll address,the rest isn't worth reading, let alone responding to: Of COURSE the administration rejected outside help. With Republican operatives causing the website to fail in its early days with DOS attacks, and California State Republicans setting up bogus ACA websites to lure people away from being able to sign up with the real ACA plans, do you honestly think anyone in the administration is STUPID enough to accept outside, "complimentary" so-called HELP? Talk about letting the fox guard the hen house, why not just give him his own bunk!! Unbelievable.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MrsMurdog said:


> I don't want to read all 36+ pages of comments, but wanted to share this with everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Your name, address, age and social security number are not worth stealing????? Then why don't you post them on here???


and soon your health profile and credit card info if you'll pay your premiums by credit card, or your checking acct info if you'll pay by EFT. Seems she doesn't care to keep anything in her life private and secure; exactly the type of person hackers love to exploit and will.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Your name, address, age and social security number are not worth stealing????? Then why don't you post them on here???


  :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Your name, address, age and social security number are not worth stealing????? Then why don't you post them on here???


Sorry, as with all thing Republican criticism of the website and the ACA in general, this is overblown to the max.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

re the video:


joeysomma said:


> perfect. simple example, maybe those that support the ACA can see how ridiculous it is.


It was a nonsensical analogy so I didn't watch but about 2 minutes. Worthless.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This started with the riders on insurance policies, in Michigan, for abortion and birth control. If teens will be having sex, then maybe they should consider the riders in the insurance.
> 
> There is a law for victims of sexual assault for medical care.
> 
> *If Sex Ed is only birth control,* It is a terrible disservice to our children. What about all of the sex-transmitted diseases, that can ruin their lives? Should they know about them?


No one said it was ONLY birth control.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The testimony on Capital hill today backed up what KPG stated. When they were asked if a private company had offered to fix the website for free. No one would deny it.
> 
> What are DOS attacks??? The only DOS I am aware of is the IBM operating system from the early 1990's.


I'm not disputing WHETHER a private company or individuals offered -- I said it would be stupid of the administration to accept, given how desperately Republicans have been trying to make everything ACA fail.

DOS = Denial Of Service attacks, sometimes referred to as DDOS = Distributed DOS. A gazillion people (or perhaps it's automated and done just by computers) try to access a website all at once and it overloads their servers which then crash, no one who WANTS to do business with them can get in, and it's a royal mess. Just like what the Obamacare website went through. And yes, it's been confrmed that that did happen:



> *Right wing cyber attacks on Healthcare.gov website confirmed*
> 
> November 14, 2013
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

You're right, Knitry. Just looked it up, and apparently this message came free with the hacking tool. Unbelievable. I wonder what the penalty is for attempting to disrupt a government site?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Wow -- this just came in my email. Yessiree, it really shows how crashingly unpopular Obamacare really is:



> *Rick Perry in negotiations to accept Medicaid expansion - Turning Texas Blue*
> This morning it is being reported that Texas Governor Rick Perry has agreed to enter into negotiations with the majority Republican legislature concerning ACA Medicaid expansion. Previously Perry had publicly turned down any thought of accepting any provisions in the ACA which has become better known as Obamacare.
> 
> *But many Republican State legislators in Texas are receiving requests from constituents wanting to take advantage of this opportunity.* One Republican legislator who would not go on the record told me there is a lot of anxiety in the chamber as members watch other states taking advantage of the ACA Medicaid expansion.
> ...


You know, I begin to understand at a real visceral level WHY the Republicans wouldn't "allow" the Democrats to pass any form of health insurance or healthcare coverage for the masses prior to this and why they're fighting so furiously now. I wasn't around when FDR passed all his save-our-skins legislation that saved so many, but I do know (as I've said before) that it literally kept Democrats in power and for the most part in control of Congress for decades.

And of course, it doesn't hep matters that ALL the demographics are firmly against the GOP which keeps working almost tirelessly to flip those very necessary and needed demographics the bird, while the Democrats fold them all into their party with ease and grace (for the most part) because -- well, we pretty much always have. They are us; we are them.

But -- the GOP has no one to blame but itself. Instead of crafting policies that would appeal to ANY of the 99% (other than those who can be confused and lied into fealty so they vote against their own economic best interests -- but oh! the gays! abortion! contraception! loose wimmin! somebody gettin' somethin' for nothin'! and let's not forget GUNZ, by God !), instead of reaching out with real policies and agendas to help make this world a little more fair and a little less rapacious for the 99%, they just keep on keepin' on as if they think they'll wake up tomorrow and be in 1% heaven and everyone will love them again (if we ever did).

Heck, they can't even read the POLLS (e.g., public sentiment re the recent government shutdown) and "get it" what losers they are. They are working very hard to deserve whatever place in hell and the history books they are creating for themselves.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This started with the riders on insurance policies, in Michigan, for abortion and birth control. If teens will be having sex, then maybe they should consider the riders in the insurance.
> 
> There is a law for victims of sexual assault for medical care.
> 
> If Sex Ed is only birth control, It is a terrible disservice to our children. What about all of the sex-transmitted diseases, that can ruin their lives? Should they know about them?


Yes they should be taught about STD's. That is in a Sex Ed curriculum.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Knitry. Just looked it up, and apparently this message came free with the hacking tool. Unbelievable. I wonder what the penalty is for attempting to disrupt a government site?


Sedition in my book:



> The definition of sedition says among other things that "If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, *conspire... by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States...* they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-reinbach/the-gop-shutdown-is-sedit_b_4079692.html
> and 18 U.S.C. § 2384 : US Code - Section 2384: Seditious conspiracy
> http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/115/2384


But there are some pretty darned scarey laws on cyberterrorism too. So far the administration has used those laws against wistleblowers, not so much evildoers. Maybe they'll get smart and start doing something??

Even so, DDOS attacks aren't quite the same as hacking a website and stealing data. They involve only ACCESSING the site, and anyone who has the URL can do that.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Knitry. Just looked it up, and apparently this message came free with the hacking tool. Unbelievable. I wonder what the penalty is for attempting to disrupt a government site?


What is wrong with people that care more about the republican party than they do this country? They are sick.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Sorry, as with all thing Republican criticism of the website and the ACA in general, this is overblown to the max.


Ha! I notice you are so confident of 'your' facts, that you refuse to post your DOB, SS#, address and other pertinent info that you said isn't worth stealing on this site as Joey challenged you to do.

What's the problem, cannot put your money where your mouth is? Aren't your facts, facts?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then Obama is guilty. He has delayed parts of the ACA. Granted waivers, Members of his administration conspired with him.
> 
> His duty according to the Constitution is to enforce the laws passed by Congress, that he has signed. There is no wiggle room to pick and choose what parts he wants to change.


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> What is wrong with people that care more about the republican party than they do this country? They are sick.


I don't care more about the republicans than I do this country But you care more about a man than you do our country. You don't care what he lies about. You stand by your man.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ha! I notice you are so confident of 'your' facts, that you refuse to post your DOB, SS#, address and other pertinent info that you said isn't worth stealing on this site as Joey challenged you to do.
> 
> What's the problem, cannot put your money where your mouth is? Aren't your facts, facts?


Trying once again to worm personal info out of the lefties, KPG? I shudder to think what you'd do with it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't care more about the republicans than I do this country But you care more about a man than you do our country. You don't care what he lies about. You stand by your man.


It's perfectly obvious who you and your conservative cronies care about--yourselves. It actually sickens me to hear you and your ilk gloating over health care cancellations and folks with serious illnesses who are misinformed and scared. It's one think to dislike the President an his policies--quite another to revel in misery you claim Obama's policies have brought about. Christian, it isn't--not by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's perfectly obvious who you and your conservative cronies care about--yourselves. It actually sickens me to hear you and your ilk gloating over health care cancellations and folks with serious illnesses who are misinformed and scared. It's one think to dislike the President an his policies--quite another to revel in misery you claim Obama's policies have brought about. Christian, it isn't--not by any stretch of the imagination.


God Bless you


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

No, I was just putting a name to what you've been telling everyone. If you don't have a college education, you are obviously ignorant. How many times do you have to be told that NOT EVERYONE is a candidate for higher learning. I have never said I want everyone to be dependent on the government. As a matter of fact, I have said that I believe those physically and mentally capable should be working, and not on welfare. And have also said, that I want everyone, no matter what their physical or mental skills to be able to earn a living wage, no matter their education. But you seem to think you can train people, just like they were puppies. And it is so nice of you to offer to pay for all those low skilled to get better educated. As they may very likely not be financially able to pay for the higher skills you seem to think everyone needs. I say, get off the backs of the, LOW SKILLED, as you call them. You take care of your own life and let others take care of theirs. .


soloweygirl said:


> You are the one calling them ignorant. I never said they were ignorant, just low skilled. Skills can be improved and new ones learned on the job if the person is willing, college isn't always the answer. Why are you so against anyone improving themselves? Why do you want everyone to be dependent on the government? FYI even those with a mild learning disability can and do learn new skills, whether from a classroom setting or on the job. Maybe they are the ones that should be calling you ignorant.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Yes they should be taught about STD's. That is in a Sex Ed curriculum.


Again, I say BINGO!!!!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Trying once again to worm personal info out of the lefties, KPG? I shudder to think what you'd do with it.


Could not care less about the info about either of you. Her refusal to post is simply further proof she is a lying LWN just like you and the rest of your party.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> God Bless you


 :thumbup:

I hope her personal info hasn't already been hacked since I heard she signed up for insurance through her state exchange.

Wowza! She believes in the system and that Obama is looking out for her best interests. :shock:

ETA: Been thinking about this  apparently the Libs think President Obama only lied to the Repub and Indeps; not the Dems - since the Dems are still supporting him and willing to sign up for the failed ObamaCare.

I thought the President was the President to all Americans, but apparently Obama only lied to some of us and NOT to the Dems.

Priceless  :-D


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh Joeysmma, you'd think President Obama was guilty if for some reason the sun didn't come up in the morning........ Lame!.....


joeysomma said:


> Then Obama is guilty. He has delayed parts of the ACA. Granted waivers, Members of his administration conspired with him.
> 
> His duty according to the Constitution is to enforce the laws passed by Congress, that he has signed. There is no wiggle room to pick and choose what parts he wants to change.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, KPG......let's see you post all your personal info, for all the world to see.....You're dumb enough to believe someone else would do it, then think they're lying to you about who they are because they won't.....Your ignorance is showing..... :roll:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Could not care less about the info about either of you. Her refusal to post is simply further proof she is a lying LWN just like you and the rest of your party.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This started with the riders on insurance policies, in Michigan, for abortion and birth control. If teens will be having sex, then maybe they should consider the riders in the insurance.
> 
> There is a law for victims of sexual assault for medical care.
> 
> If Sex Ed is only birth control, It is a terrible disservice to our children. What about all of the sex-transmitted diseases, that can ruin their lives? Should they know about them?


That law states nothing regarding abortion or termination.

"forensic" means the process of collecting for an investigation, thus leaving out those who are not prosecuting or have chosen not to report.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

I have more respect for the pig, Bashir, who resigned today from MSNBC than I do for the cable network who refused to fire him. Except do you even have respect when it is already 'less than zero?' Hmmm  that is a puzzlement.

Ratings must have slid into the negative category faster than expected or Matt Lauer was really angry for being the bearer of the punishment.

What a sick network.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You did:
> 
> "Sex Ed IS Birth Control ! "


I don't see an "only" in there. Is it invisible?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, KPG......let's see you post all your personal info, for all the world to see.....You're dumb enough to believe someone else would do it, then think they're lying to you about who they are because they won't.....Your ignorance is showing..... :roll:


Do you even have the ability to think and reason? Obviously not.

Knitry SAID she trusted the website enough to post HER pertinent info on it as none of that info was worth stealing.  It isn't about me lying or stating anything, SHE is the one who ran her mouth and now won't back up her words with action.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you even have the ability to think and reason? Obviously not.
> 
> Knitry SAID she trusted the website enough to post HER info. It isn't about me lying or stating anything, SHE is the one who ran her mouth and now won't back up her words with action.


Gad, you are persistent, KPG.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You did:
> 
> "Sex Ed IS Birth Control ! "


Is English your native language? Because your reading comprehension is sorely lacking in this case.

From both syntax and contextual viewpoints, there's absolutely no indication in that sentence that I meant that sex ed is exclusively or completely birth control without any other components. There's not even an indication that I meant it's "primarily (even if not exclusively)" birth control.

If I had meant that it's ONLY birth control, I would have phrased it differently, such as:

_Sex ed is birth control, and that's all it is._

or _Sex ed is birth control, exclusively._

_Sex ed is only about birth control._

And so forth.

There's another way your reading comprehension in this case is flawed, and that is that the sentence can be read in a much more nuanced way: as a statement meaning "If you want kids to have birth control, be sure to include sex ed." That is actually what I meant when I typed it and what the person I stole it from meant when SHE typed it.

I think I begin to understand the problems we face as a nation, and with governing no matter who's in control in Washington, given the apparent condition of the rank and file Republican base.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then Obama is guilty. He has delayed parts of the ACA. Granted waivers, Members of his administration conspired with him.
> 
> His duty according to the Constitution is to enforce the laws passed by Congress, that he has signed. There is no wiggle room to pick and choose what parts he wants to change.


Yeah, well good luck with that.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ha! I notice you are so confident of 'your' facts, that you refuse to post your DOB, SS#, address and other pertinent info that you said isn't worth stealing on this site as Joey challenged you to do.
> 
> What's the problem, cannot put your money where your mouth is? Aren't your facts, facts?


Oh, boy, more logic problems. Between the poor reading comprehension -- which IMO figures in here too, and the lack of logical prowess, I'm getting a little overwhelmed and ill.

Look. There is a gigantic difference between putting my information right there for everyone to see and have it tucked away in the bowels of data that are not automatically visible to everyone on a website.

Knitting Paradise has a bit of private information about me too -- THAT is would be what would be analogous to what users of the ACA website enter into the site to sign up for an account. The info here isn't quite as extensive and might not be considered quite as sensitive, but I DID trust that it would be fairly well safeguarded when I signed up here.

In the very same way, NONE of your personal information is visible to everyone who comes either to KP or who would go to the ACA site. There is no analogy there. No logic. No comparison. No "there" there!

Posting any of my personal information here would prove nothing, other than what I fool I am for doing it (and what a fool you two are for suggesting it, thinking it would somehow "prove" or show something).

Sheesh.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Could not care less about the info about either of you. Her refusal to post is simply further proof she is a lying LWN just like you and the rest of your party.


I'm not a liar in any way.

In fact, I go out of my way to expose lies and deceit wherever I find them. I've even done it where the people involved -- the people about whom mistruths and misstatements were being made -- were people I despised politically (e.g., George Bush).

I don't see ANYone of the right standing up for the truth ANYWHERE. Not here on this thread, no out in public, not in Congress, not in the press. NO WHERE DOES THE RIGHT TELL OR SUPPORT THE TRUTH.

And when you call ME a liar, that alone makes you one.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'm not a liar in any way.
> 
> In fact, I go out of my way to expose lies and deceit wherever I find them. I've even done it where the people involved -- the people about whom mistruths and misstatements were being made -- were people I despised politically (e.g., George Bush).
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Here's a poster for you Janeway.....I know how much you love them.........


Here is one better!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Janeway the checks were different amounts up to $600. It depended on your income and its source. If a person was on Social Security with no earned income, the most you could get was $300.
> 
> I thought the whole idea was a stupid one, as so many that were qualified to get a check were missed, if they did not file a tax return. Then the cost of processing all of those checks was probably more than any benefit the economy received. Then it was done on borrowed money.


Thanks Joey as I knew mine was $100.00 so thought everyone got the same. It was a waste of money as I did not spend it all at one time.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nussa
> Never fret at anything said by KPG. She's one of those who can't tell the truth from a lie, calls people names, and has not a gentle thought towards anyone among the less fortunate---while she quotes the Bible.


Not nice Al, as lately you have been doing lots of name calling. Need a cookie? I'll make you a chocolate one.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Knitry SAID she trusted the website enough to post HER pertinent info on it as none of that info was worth stealing.


Ahh, the heart of the problem. At last.

You see, that is NOT what I said. Not at all. Here are my exact words:



> Here's the deal. There's no customer information on the website of any value or worth stealing. Be gravely concerned about it if YOU want to be; I'm far more concerned about Facebook (and hardly ever use it any more as a result).


Not a single word about my personal information and certainly not that my personal information "wasn't worth stealing."

Again with the reading comprehension. Sigh.

Okay, I'll admit that IF someone hacked the site and was able to "steal' SSNs, that would be bad. But I say again that I feel certain that concern is incredibly overblown for several reasons.

One, the issue has been raised, and whether there's anything to it or not, you can be darned sure the administration is ensuring that there's not.

Second, and far more importantly, I ran across this bit of info the other day, which led me to understand DHS is all over security of the site:



> Hackers have attempted more than a dozen cyber attacks against the Obamacare website, *according to a top Homeland Security Department official. The attacks, which are under investigation, failed,* said the official.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-massive-republican-ca_b_4311424.html


Finally, one more acronym for ya with billions of reasons: *NSA.* I've watched this subject quite carefully since the domestic spying scandal broke last July, I think it was, and believe me: if there's anything in cyberspace to know (and plenty, plenty, plenty not worth knowing), they're on it and have a backup of all of it. And another key aspect of my *NSA.* response is that the NSA and virtually all other spy and law enforcement agencies -- federal, state, even local -- share that data freely. There are NO secrets from one another.

See? That's why I say the concern is way overblown.

And again, just to be sure you get it: I never said MY personal information wasn't worth stealing, or that I'd post that information here or anywhere else where it would be visible to the public.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just curious; what did these employees say when you asked them if they felt they were being mistreated? If they knew their job would require them to actually move merchandise around in order to stock the shelves? If the disabled cashier knew she would have to stand when at the register? I hope you explained to them how they are being so mistreated and showed them what is available for them to do in such cases. Never mind, your answer was to stop shopping at WalMart.


Amen, Solo as I have been able to feed my DH & I pretty well by shopping at Walmart.

I have a friend who worked at Target for 3 years without medical ins because the mgr said no one got ins before 3 years. She also fell at work at Target & mgr told her if she turned the accident in he would fire her. She worked running the big moping machine with a cast on her rt leg as the fall broke it.

People for some reason are Walmart haters because they are the largest big box store.

In my city, a group of people was fighting a new Walmart, but later it was discovered their advertising was paid for by Kroger, Meijer & target.

Well, the store was built & people shopped there in hoards & quit those other stores!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Amen, Solo as I have been able to feed my DH & I pretty well by shopping at Walmart.


You will find lower prices on some, even many, items, but you'll find quite a few much higher. Be careful. My husband and I have to be quite careful with our money and he's the grocery shopper and knows all the prices cold. He pretty much won't grocery shop at Wal-Mart.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> No, I think you need to get your facts straight Jane. I think it was $300 and $600 for a couple and also more for dependent children. That was in 2008.


Joey explained these facts but you don't read any of them do you? My check was $100.00 because I tried to conserve it as long as I could.

You don't know the facts!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - hilarious :thumbup:
> 
> I can only imagine having to attend a cocktail party with 'them' in the room. I definitely would 1) become an alcoholic in order to tune them out or 2) be the bartender to 'mix' their drinks in my own special way.


Me too as would wear ear plugs so not to listen to them talk! I'll drink to this!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They'll never be appeased. The only charitable giving I feel like mentioning I do is putting money in the Salvation Army's little red buckets because the bell-ringing means Christmas is coming.


Not nice to lie!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Not posting to them? How about your post to susanmos2000 that comes right after the one quoted above? Kinda seems like a post to one of the intolerable Demo's to me.


You are the most disgusting person ever--not nice!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Report on tv says most health care needs are by people who are obese.


Lucy, these people cannot understand the truth so give up on trying to tell them anything as they cannot see the light.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Do you actually think GQ is a good source about rating the President's influence? Pretty scary...


This fits you!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Saying some people will never be able to do for themselves is merely stating the truth. It has nothing to do with their level of ambition or starting a job at the first, lowest level and working their way up. It has everything to do with the sad fact that some people can't become independent no matter how much they want to be and/or how hard they work to become so. I happen to hope that group of people will be as small as possible.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Knitry said "There's no problem with security on the site for users, that's a fiction of the Republicans ..."
> 
> I believe the 4 people that were responsible for the design and construction of the website when they say it is not secure, not someone that can't stay away from the Kool Aid machine.


Yes, you are correct as this was on the national news where the Obocare site has been hacked & everyone's private info is at a great risk, because their SS #'s are on that site with their names.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, and I wanted to share this, as well. I had NO IDEA all this good stuff re Medicare:


This says FaceBook--really do you think this could possibly be wrong? I don't believe anything on FB.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You neglected to post the comment that goes with this one Janeway.....Mine came with an explanation under the picture.....Come on Janeway......what does it mean???? HUH??? Tell me.....where has your DIRTY little mind gone?....Why don't you tell everyone????


Janeway said:


> Here is one better!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks to me like you guys never put the bottle down.....


Janeway said:


> Me too as would wear ear plugs so not to listen to them talk! I'll drink to this!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Lucy, these people cannot understand the truth so give up on trying to tell them anything as they cannot see the light.


You are right again, Janeway. I have given up.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Amen, Solo as I have been able to feed my DH & I pretty well by shopping at Walmart.
> 
> I have a friend who worked at Target for 3 years without medical ins because the mgr said no one got ins before 3 years. She also fell at work at Target & mgr told her if she turned the accident in he would fire her. She worked running the big moping machine with a cast on her rt leg as the fall broke it.
> 
> ...


I refuse to shop at Target - been in one twice and bought nothing. No plans to ever go back.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Me too as would wear ear plugs so not to listen to them talk! I'll drink to this!


Cute image! Yet, "not strong enough" for the loons on this thread.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then Obama is guilty. He has delayed parts of the ACA. Granted waivers, Members of his administration conspired with him.
> 
> His duty according to the Constitution is to enforce the laws passed by Congress, that he has signed. There is no wiggle room to pick and choose what parts he wants to change.


Not only that but now good old Harry Reid has exempt his staff from going on OBC. Wow such power.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Not only that but now good old Harry Reid has exempt his staff from going on OBC. Wow such power.


I repeat. Obamacare is a farce - a bad one, and BO needs to be impeached!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> God Bless you


She doesn't understand CB, she can only see it one way . She doesn't understand what you mean about caring more for this country than what party there are.
Plus does not understand what it really means to be a Christian.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

A glass of red wine is good for the heart may be why we have such good hearts and are not crabby like some.

A glass every day keep you from having to go for ACA care. :-o :lol:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> She doesn't understand CB, she can only see it one way . She doesn't understand what you mean about caring more for this country than what party there are.
> Plus does not understand what it really means to be a Christian.


That is so true.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> She doesn't understand CB, she can only see it one way . She doesn't understand what you mean about caring more for this country than what party there are.
> Plus does not understand what it really means to be a Christian.


 :thumbup: You've got that correct.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Amen, Solo as I have been able to feed my DH & I pretty well by shopping at Walmart.
> 
> I have a friend who worked at Target for 3 years without medical ins because the mgr said no one got ins before 3 years. She also fell at work at Target & mgr told her if she turned the accident in he would fire her. She worked running the big moping machine with a cast on her rt leg as the fall broke it.
> 
> ...


That is THE problem with Walmart. When it comes into an area ALL other stores FAIL. The profits for Walmart are staggering and the amount of money that stays in the town is minuscule. I believe 95% goes to Walmart and 5% stays in the area.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I repeat. Obamacare is a farce - a bad one, and BO needs to be impeached!


The repubs in Washington have stopped talking about the ACA cause they know they lost the battle. If they continue to say repeal, they will be taking insurance away from many many people that are just now getting insurance for the first time. I wonder though what their new crusade will be. Maybe something about Iran. One rep congressman, Duncan Hunter is already saying we should attack Iran with Tactical Nukes. What is it that makes repubs like war so much?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> She doesn't understand CB, she can only see it one way . She doesn't understand what you mean about caring more for this country than what party there are.
> Plus does not understand what it really means to be a Christian.


You make me laugh, Yarnie, but you do describe yourself so well. Good job.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Many of the ways that Obama has broken the law.
> 
> Oh yeah, and don't forget that one of the Obama dogs knocked down a toddler today, yet another way he may have broken the law.......want to call for his impeachment for that one too??


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Funny Cindy S!.......LOL....Joeysomma has a fettish about all the laws that she believes President Obama has broken....good thing you could report that one to her......heaven forbid she missed out on this horrendous breach of the law...... :thumbup:


Cindy S said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Many of the ways that Obama has broken the law.
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> The repubs in Washington have stopped talking about the ACA cause they know they lost the battle. If they continue to say repeal, they will be taking insurance away from many many people that are just now getting insurance for the first time. I wonder though what their new crusade will be. Maybe something about Iran. One rep congressman, Duncan Hunter is already saying we should attack Iran with Tactical Nukes. What is it that makes repubs like war so much?


You are comical and live in a fairy tale. The Repubs are talking about the ACA daily and all its FAILURES. They don't need to do anything but watch it fail and destroy what credibility is left of the Dem Party.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Many of the ways that Obama has broken the law. Even a Liberal Law professor agrees as he testifies before congress.
> 
> Liberal law professor: Obama is the danger
> Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/liberal-law-professor-obama-is-the-danger/#Ueo82EQg2Jr6wYzY.99


I heard yesterday about the committee looking into all the ways and times Obama has broken the law with his actions. The "I" was discussed, but I know it will never happen. Not worth it as he has destroyed his own legacy already and won't accomplish another thing, after his one and only accomplishment, a failed law called Obamacare.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Scared KPG? The Republicans are all cowering like beaten dogs, in a corner somewhere, with their tails between their legs.....LOL!


knitpresentgifts said:


> You are comical and live in a fairy tale. The Repubs are talking about the ACA daily and all its FAILURES. They don't need to do anything but watch it fail and destroy what credibility is left of the Dem Party.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Scared KPG? The Republicans are all cowering like beaten dogs, in a corner somewhere, with their tails between their legs.....LOL!


Nope - but you've described the Democrats perfectly.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You know....you really have to start using your own brain when you respond to other peoples posts.......Mostly you use other republican's responses as your own, and then when someone such as myself, who happens to be an independent by the way, hit's the nail on the head with a remark, your answer is.........(I know you are, but what am I?) Come on, come up with something more original. :lol:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - but you've described the Democrats perfectly.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> You know....you really have to start using your own brain when you respond to other peoples posts.......Mostly you use other republican's responses as your own, and then when someone such as myself, who happens to be an independent by the way, hit's the nail on the head with a remark, your answer is.........(I know you are, but what am I?) Come on, come up with something more original. :lol:


How fun! Nothing I post is from someone else unless I properly give credit to the original author. If you knew anything, you'd understand that.

I'm waiting for you to hit something, anything, with your hammer head.

Actually, that's a lie since I choose to skip most of your posts now 'cause I don't miss much of anything anyway when I do.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Oh Joeysmma, you'd think President Obama was guilty if for some reason the sun didn't come up in the morning........ Lame!.....


POTUS is guilty of doing what Joey posted.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Your famous last words to me...(I choose to skip most of you posts)....you keep posting to me OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER.........lol.


knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! Nothing I post is from someone else unless I properly give credit to the original author. If you knew anything, you'd understand that.
> 
> I'm waiting for you to hit something, anything, with your hammer head.
> 
> Actually, that's a lie since I choose to skip most of your posts now 'cause I don't miss much of anything anyway when I do.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh.....can't think on your own either? Seems to run in the Republican population... :wink:


soloweygirl said:


> POTUS is guilty of doing what Joey posted.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Amen, Solo as I have been able to feed my DH & I pretty well by shopping at Walmart.
> 
> I have a friend who worked at Target for 3 years without medical ins because the mgr said no one got ins before 3 years. She also fell at work at Target & mgr told her if she turned the accident in he would fire her. She worked running the big moping machine with a cast on her rt leg as the fall broke it.
> 
> ...


The Dems/libs hate any business that is successful. One can't expect much form those that think redistribution of wealth is the basis to achieve the American Dream.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Not only that but now good old Harry Reid has exempt his staff from going on OBC. Wow such power.


And doing so after saying he wouldn't in September. Now there is a man that keeps his word. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> The repubs in Washington have stopped talking about the ACA cause they know they lost the battle. If they continue to say repeal, they will be taking insurance away from many many people that are just now getting insurance for the first time. I wonder though what their new crusade will be. Maybe something about Iran. One rep congressman, Duncan Hunter is already saying we should attack Iran with Tactical Nukes. What is it that makes repubs like war so much?


The Republicans have stopped talking about repealing Obamacare because the people have finally woken up and are seeing the law for what it is. They are making their own decisions, especially the people that have been hurt by all the lies told by Obama and his followers. They will also be stung again when they learn that the Obamacare policies incorporate a very small network of physicians and hospitals so chances are good they will indeed lose their doctors.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Oh.....can't think on your own either? Seems to run in the Republican population... :wink:


Sorry to disappoint you, but like you I am an independent. As is Joey, btw.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

NJG said:


> You make me laugh, Yarnie, but you do describe yourself so well. Good job.


Thank you I always except compliments even from people who haven't a clue what they are posting about. :shock:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Dems/libs hate any business that is successful. One can't expect much form those that think redistribution of wealth is the basis to achieve the American Dream.


Wonder if all those rich Dems will redistribute their wealth too?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, but like you I am an independent. As is Joey, btw.


That makes three of us, vote for person not party.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank goodness those Dem's have never wanted war. We are so blessed to know only Republicans want war and destruction on this earth.

Might want to check this one out.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Does anyone understand what independent means? It sure doesn"t look like the Liberals understand that one.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Dems/libs hate any business that is successful. One can't expect much form those that think redistribution of wealth is the basis to achieve the American Dream.


I've got another clue for you.

Unless you want a completely government-less nation (think: Somalia), ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth." The only question, or variations, is WHERE the wealth gets distributed to.

In the case of corporate subsidies and farm subsidies (also corporae subsidies since they mostly go to big agriculture corporations), the wealth is getting redistributed UPWARDS from the dwindling and overburdened (overtaxed) middle class of taxpayers. If you think that's okay, bend over and get another good kick.

Another clue: capitalism has the annoying (to some) habit of pushing all wealth upwards, to the top o' the heap, the 1% or less unless regulations are put in place to prevent -- or at least modulate -- that funny "quirk" the capitalists love so much about their beloved system.

Personally, if you think THAT's okay, you deserve to live in poverty. There's NO reason why this bountiful nation, with all its natural resources and talented, creative individuals can't provide a living wage for all of its workers -- EVEN under capitalism.

However, I promise you this: if capitalism continues to refuse to do that, what capitalists will get instead is considerable more socialism, which is inherently more fair to workers than capitalism will ever be (a least, unless forced to be). The untrammeled greed and selfishness cannot continue.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well it's funny you should say that, as I'm living the American dream, and didn't do it on the backs of others. 
And just where is this redistribution of wealth you are talking about?
I see a lot of rich companies with their rich CEO's and rich politicians. But I also see a lot of poor, with barely any middle class, as they have been taxed to death and are now the poor. 
Just HOW are these successful business helping the people of this country. And if they are, why is there such a discrepancy between the poor & the rich?


soloweygirl said:


> The Dems/libs hate any business that is successful. One can't expect much form those that think redistribution of wealth is the basis to achieve the American Dream.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> That makes three of us, vote for person not party.


Frankly, that's a mistake, a big one. NOT because the parties are so good, but because the parties stand for something, and have agendas and predilections for how they'll govern, and individuals who belong to those parties (or caucus with them, and everyone must) will be forced to follow those agendas for the most part -- esp. the Republican agenda. Democrats are far less authoritarian about things. That's why they're Democrats.

When I was quite young, I thought I was an Independent. What I was instead was simply poorly informed. Once I started paying enough attention to know just a little bit about the PEOPLE I was voting for, I could see I clearly favored Democrats. And once I explored that more carefully, I discovered they stood for and believed in things I did as well.

Nowadays some people are abandoning their natural parties and choosing "Independent" for party affiliation as a sort of protest non-vote. That's all well and good, but they're still going to vote for one of the 2 main parties for the most part, or risk losing the value of their vote all together. If that doesn't matter to them, it certainly doesn't matter to me, but it's politically stupid and naive.

Finally, "the person" can tell you anything, and often does. If they are backed by a party, you at least have that knowledge to go on. Back in the 1980s, the Republicans under the tutelage of the Christian Coalition (Ralph Reed) started running "stealth candidates" -- their word!! -- basically LYING to the public about themselves and their policy positions so they could get elected. It was grotesque, immoral and unAmerican. They've kept that little trick in their arsenal every since, except by now, as I've said before, they don't seem capable of being able to tell the difference between truth and lie, and certainly don't care one way or the other. We can see plenty of that on this very discussion.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I've got another clue for you.
> 
> Unless you want a completely government-less nation (think: Somalia), ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth." The only question, or variations, is WHERE the wealth gets distributed to.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Not only that but now good old Harry Reid has exempt his staff from going on OBC. Wow such power.


Uh, no. This has been debunked a number of times. (Don't you people feel any sense of embarrassment about posting the lies that are being fed to you, posting things which aren't true and have been posted HERE to be not true??? No shame whatsoever?)

From FactCheck.org:



> The new law is no longer a moving target, but some opponents persist in making false or exaggerated claims about it. Our inboxes are filled with messages asking about assertions that the new law:
> 
> Requires patients to be implanted with microchips. (No, it doesnt.)
> Cuts benefits for military families and retirees. (No. The TRICARE program isnt affected.)
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'll bet your post got her fingers flying across the key board trying to dispute your facts.....LOL......that's why they haven't posted back yet....you know how they like their FACTS...right or wrong...mostly wrong.


Knitry said:


> Frankly, that's a mistake, a big one. NOT because the parties are so good, but because the parties stand for something, and have agendas and predilections for how they'll govern, and individuals who belong to those parties (or caucus with them, and everyone must) will be forced to follow those agendas for the most part -- esp. the Republican agenda. Democrats are far less authoritarian about things. That's why they're Democrats.
> 
> When I was quite young, I thought I was an Independent. What I was instead was simply poorly informed. Once I started paying enough attention to know just a little bit about the PEOPLE I was voting for, I could see I clearly favored Democrats. And once I explored that more carefully, I discovered they stood for and believed in things I did as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I've got another clue for you.
> 
> Unless you want a completely government-less nation (think: Somalia), ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth." The only question, or variations, is WHERE the wealth gets distributed to.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I've got another clue for you.
> 
> Unless you want a completely government-less nation (think: Somalia), ALL taxation is "redistribution of wealth." The only question, or variations, is WHERE the wealth gets distributed to.


Exactly, and just where does Obama want this wealth distributed to?



knitry said:


> Personally, if you think THAT's okay, you deserve to live in poverty. There's NO reason why this bountiful nation, with all its natural resources and talented, creative individuals can't provide a living wage for all of its workers -- EVEN under capitalism.


This country has provided a living wage for its workers and can do so again. That is what has made America so great and the desire of others to immigrate. It's you and your ilk that are doing everything you can to not let that happen.



knitry said:


> However, I promise you this: if capitalism continues to refuse to do that, what capitalists will get instead is considerable more socialism, which is inherently more fair to workers than capitalism will ever be (a least, unless forced to be). The untrammeled greed and selfishness cannot continue.


If you don't think there is "untrammeled greed and selfishness" in socialist countries boy are you clueless. Do you really think there is not a huge gap between the haves and the have nots in socialist countries?

Actually, you just sound like one bitter old woman that couldn't make a go of it under capitalism. You live by the mantra if I can't have it, no one can. Let's destroy what made this country great.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> solowey - I think the reason they don't believe us, is that they have no idea of what the Constitution says. It must be the progressive (revised) History education. They must be the ones that believe we are a Democratic Republic instead of a Constitutional Republic. Although that is what Obama is trying to make it.


That's a thought; perhaps that is why they don't understand he has no regard for the Constitution or the laws that run our country.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Thank you I always except compliments even from people who haven't a clue what they are posting about. :shock:


 :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Wonder if all those rich Dems will redistribute their wealth too?


You mean like Wendy Davis, TX - Dem, who harps on folks to do their fair share for charity? Her tax records just released shows she gave a whopping .6 of one percent (less than 1%) of her income to charity. What a fraud ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The Dems/libs hate any business that is successful. One can't expect much form those that think redistribution of wealth is the basis to achieve the American Dream.


With the exception of any Dem buz owner who may hire a Liberal - then the Lib will demand double the minimum wage for work they do that doesn't even deserve the minimum wage.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> That makes three of us, vote for person not party.


I'm an indep in thoughts and deeds too except when I must register as a Repub party member in order to vote in a primary. No matter how I'm registered, I always vote for the person regardless of party.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Thank goodness those Dem's have never wanted war. We are so blessed to know only Republicans want war and destruction on this earth.
> 
> Might want to check this one out.


You mean all those drones Obama sends out and the folks in Gitmo don't really exist? What about all that stuff in Libya and on the border - never happened? Are you kidding me, Yarnie?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Harry Reid exempts staffers from Obamacare

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/politics/reid-obamacare-staff/

CNN is such a right wing conservative company

Almost as sad as the hundred of thousands that think they have insurance, but the web site screwed up the information when sending it to the insurance companies. So we have people thinking they have insurance, but don't. Can you imagine, someone going to the hospital on January 1 having a heart attack and find out they don't have insurance?

choo choo Obamacultists


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? Its because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time. 
― George Carlin

Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it.
― Harry S. Truman

Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

The Republicans believe in the minimum wage -- the more the minimum, the better.
― Harry S. Truman

Latins for Republicans - it's like roaches for Raid. 
― John Leguizamo

The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it.
― P.J. O'Rourke, Parliament of Whores: A Lone Humorist Attempts to Explain the Entire U.S. Government

In 2001, the oil companies, the war contractors and the Neo-Con-Artists seized the economy and added $4 trillion of unproductive spending to the national debt. We now pay four times more for defence, three times more for gasoline and home-heating oil and twice what we payed for health-care. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs, their homes, their health-care, their pensions; trillions of dollars for an unnecessary war payed for with borrowed money. Tens of billions of dollars in cash and weapons disappeared into thin air at the cost of the lives of our troops and innocent Iraqis, while all the President's oil men are maneuvering on Iraq's oil. Borrowed money to bomb bridges in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. No money to rebuild bridges in America. Borrowed money to start a hot war with Iran, now we have another cold war with Russia and the American economy has become a game of Russian roulette.
― Dennis Kucinich

Bob Dole revealed he is one of the test subjects for Viagra. He said on Larry King, 'I wish I had bought stock in it.' Only a Republican would think the best part of Viagra is the fact that you could make money off of it.
― Jay Leno

Prolific irony - For 8 years, the finger on the button that could end the world belonged to a president who couldn't pronounce the word "nuclear.
― T. Rafael Cimino, Mid Ocean

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
― Barry M. Goldwater

Before the nineteen-seventies, most Republicans in Washington accepted the institutions of the welfare state, and most Democrats agreed with the logic of the Cold War. Despite the passions over various issues, government functioned pretty well. Legislators routinely crossed party lines when they voted, and when they drank; filibusters in the Senate were reserved for the biggest bills; think tanks produced independent research, not partisan talking points. The "D." or "R." after a politician's name did not tell you what he thought about everything, or everything you thought about him.
― George Packer

It's been the same story ever since I can remember, ever since Wilson  the Republicans don't do a thing for the little man.
― John Updike, Rabbit Redux

In all, the future secretary of defense and wartime vice president[, Dick Cheney,] would receive five deferments during the Vietnam War, protecting him from service during his draft-eligible years.
― Charlie Savage, Takeover: The Return of the Imperial Presidency and the Subversion of American Democracy


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Harry Reid exempts staffers from Obamacare
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/politics/reid-obamacare-staff/
> 
> ...


Yeah yeah. First you gloried in the notion that folks wouldn't be able to access the website--then that they wouldn't be able to complete the application process--now that they erroneously believe they have coverage.

Hope springs eternal, at least for the righties.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> Have you ever wondered why Republicans are so interested in encouraging people to volunteer in their communities? Its because volunteers work for no pay. Republicans have been trying to get people to work for no pay for a long time. 
> ― George Carlin
> 
> Republicans approve of the American farmer, but they are willing to help him go broke. They stand four-square for the American home--but not for housing. They are strong for labor--but they are stronger for restricting labor's rights. They favor minimum wage--the smaller the minimum wage the better. They endorse educational opportunity for all--but they won't spend money for teachers or for schools. They think modern medical care and hospitals are fine--for people who can afford them. They consider electrical power a great blessing--but only when the private power companies get their rake-off. They think American standard of living is a fine thing--so long as it doesn't spread to all the people. And they admire of Government of the United States so much that they would like to buy it.
> ...


I sure do enjoy your posts..... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well it's funny you should say that, as I'm living the American dream, and didn't do it on the backs of others.
> And just where is this redistribution of wealth you are talking about?
> I see a lot of rich companies with their rich CEO's and rich politicians. But I also see a lot of poor, with barely any middle class, as they have been taxed to death and are now the poor.
> Just HOW are these successful business helping the people of this country. And if they are, why is there such a discrepancy between the poor & the rich?


I have the answer, but refuse to share because of the negative comments that will happen.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You have NOTHING! If you did, you'd say so....nothing has ever stopped you from putting your foot in your mouth before....


Lukelucy said:


> I have the answer, but refuse to share because of the negative comments that will happen.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You have NOTHING! If you did, you'd say so....nothing has ever stopped you from putting your foot in your mouth before....


You are not a nice person. Nasty as the day is long. Read above. Disgusting.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

May he rest in peace....


NJG said:


> Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Read what you just wrote me, and then look in the mirror....that's what nasty as the day is long really is. Why do you become so "Holier Than Thou" when things aren't going your way? If you were the kind sweet Christian person you claim to be, you wouldn't be calling people liers & cronies, & many other names, when you think they're wrong. How about saying, "Well, I guess we just don't agree.". 
And by the way, "I guess we just don't agree." :thumbup:


Lukelucy said:


> You are not a nice person. Nasty as the day is long. Read above. Disgusting.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You are not a nice person. Nasty as the day is long. Read above. Disgusting.


 :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Read what you just wrote me, and then look in the mirror....that's what nasty as the day is long really is. Why do you become so "Holier Than Thou" when things aren't going your way? If you were the kind sweet Christian person you claim to be, you wouldn't be calling people liers & cronies, & many other names, when you think they're wrong. How about saying, "Well, I guess we just don't agree.".
> And by the way, "I guess we just don't agree." :thumbup:


I was stating that I would get a nasty reply - and I did!


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> *If you don't think there is "untrammeled greed and selfishness" in socialist countries boy are you clueless. Do you really think there is not a huge gap between the haves and the have nots in socialist countries? *
> 
> Actually, you just sound like one bitter old woman that couldn't make a go of it under capitalism. You live by the mantra if I can't have it, no one can. Let's destroy what made this country great.


Yeah, those Amish are so greedy and selfish!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You get what you've been giving Lukelucy....so don't be so surprised. And I did say "I guess we just don't agree."


Lukelucy said:


> I was stating that I would get a nasty reply - and I did!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You get what you've been giving Lukelucy....so don't be so surprised. And I did say "I guess we just don't agree."


I think you have it all wrong.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I think you have it all wrong.


I think you have her pegged well. I'm all for ignoring her ignorant and hateful posts along with you.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm an indep in thoughts and deeds too except when I must register as a Repub party member in order to vote in a primary. No matter how I'm registered, I always vote for the person regardless of party.


 :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you have her pegged well. I'm all for ignoring her ignorant and hateful posts along with you.


KPG,
I am so saddened that there is a level of viciousness on this site. To me, it is a sign of a sick person to twist things and write what they write. It is not normal. Life is too short to have these kinds of people in my life.

Thank you for being there. I appreciate all that you write and also for being there...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You mean all those drones Obama sends out and the folks in Gitmo don't really exist? What about all that stuff in Libya and on the border - never happened? Are you kidding me, Yarnie?


Just wanted to know if any one thought that only Republican Presidents started all the wars.

Seems some do not remember or know that:

WWI Wilson

WW II Roosevelt

Korea Turman

Vietnam Johnson.

Just think if someone is going to accuse only Republican President of starting wars might want to include The Democrats too.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just wanted to know if any one thought that only Republican Presidents started all the wars.
> 
> Seems some do not remember or know that:
> 
> ...


Yarnlady- thanks for the info. Of course, they will twist this, too.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just wanted to know if any one thought that only Republican Presidents started all the wars.
> 
> Seems some do not remember or know that:
> 
> ...


Such ignorance--imagine claiming that Roosevelt started WW2! America did its best to stay out of the conflict (maybe too much so in light of the havoc Hitler was creating in Europe) until December 7, 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We declared war on them one day later, and then Germany declare war on _us_.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just wanted to know if any one thought that only Republican Presidents started all the wars.
> 
> Seems some do not remember or know that:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Such ignorance--imagine claiming that Roosevelt started WW2! America did its best to stay out of the conflict (maybe too much so in light of the havoc Hitler was creating in Europe) until December 7, 1941, when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We declared war on them one day later, and then Germany declare war on _us_.


 Topic Started: Apr 10 2011, 02:38 AM (4,622 Views)
Black Republican Apr 10 2011, 02:38 AM Post #1
Member Avatar

Posts:
11,246
Group:
Members
Member
#642
Joined:
Sep 14, 2010

If you listen to the Democrats talk, you would think that they were Saints. Well I'm going to name
some wars that the Democrats have started or gotten America involved in.

1. Democrat got America in the Vietnam War.
A. Democrat President John Kennedy sent money and advisors to South Vietnam.
B. Democrat president Lyndon Johnson sent American troops into Vietnam.
C. 2 Million people died in the Vietnam war.
4. 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam, and another 350,000 were injured.

2. Democrats got America involved in the Korean war.
A. It was Democrat president Harry Truman that sent Americans to fight in the Korean war.
B. 33,000 Americans were killed in that war.

3. Democrats used nuclear weapons on Japan.
A. It was Democrat president Harry Truman that dropped 2 nuclear bombs on innocent
women and children in Japan, killing over 200,000 innocent civilians.

4. Democrats got America involved in World War 1.
A. It was Democrat president Woodrow Wilson that got America involved in World War 1.
B. 37 million people died in that war.
C. 117,000 Americans were killed in that war.

5. Democrats got America involved in World War 2.
A. It was Democrat president Franklin Roosevelt that got America involved in World War 2.
B. 70 million people died in that war.
C. 406,000 Americans died in that war.

6. Democrats started the Bay of Pigs.
A. It was Democrat president John F Kennedy that started the Bay of Pigs, which was a war
against Cuba.

7. Democrats bombed Libya.
A. It was Democrat president Barack Obama that bombed Libya killing 1000's of innocent women and children.
Edited by Black Republican, Sep 5 2013, 12:12 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top

Black Republican Apr 10 2011, 02:48 AM Post #2
Member Avatar

Posts:
11,246
Group:
Members
Member
#642
Joined:
Sep 14, 2010

When Dr. King was killed riots broke out in many cities, Democrat president Lyndon Johnson sent 5000 U.S. troops into the street of Chicago and told them to use tear gas on the people.

Democrat mayor Richard Daley to the police to SHOOT TO KILL


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Harry Reid exempts staffers from Obamacare
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/04/politics/reid-obamacare-staff/
> 
> CNN is such a right wing conservative company


CNN can be pretty right-wing, but this -- dated Dec. 4 -- appears to be straight up news.

Shame on you, Harry


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You mean like Wendy Davis, TX - Dem, who harps on folks to do their fair share for charity? Her tax records just released shows she gave a whopping .6 of one percent (less than 1%) of her income to charity. What a fraud ...


How much should she be giving? How much would satisfy you?? How much should I be giving? How much do you give??

Btw, I took the occasion to do a little research on Wendy. Pretty impressive:



> She began working after school at 14 to help support her single mother and three siblings. By 19, Wendy was a single mother herself, working two jobs to make ends meet in hopes of creating a better life for her young daughter.
> 
> Through a brochure laid on her desk by a co-worker, Wendy learned of a paralegal program at Tarrant County Community College that she thought could be the ticket to creating that better life for her young daughter. After two years of community college, Wendy transferred to Texas Christian University. With the help of academic scholarships and student loans, Wendy not only became the first person in her family to earn a bachelor's degree, but graduated first in her class and was accepted to Harvard Law School.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh.....then why don't you tell me all about it?


Lukelucy said:


> I think you have it all wrong.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/99344-just-wait-hear-ironic-name-entry-won-obamacare-video-contest/


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh.....then why don't you tell me all about it?


No. I do not trust you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No. I do not trust you.


Lukelucy have you started on your Christmas shopping?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Topic Started: Apr 10 2011, 02:38 AM (4,622 Views)
> Black Republican Apr 10 2011, 02:38 AM Post #1
> Member Avatar
> 
> ...


How about including DD Eisenhower in the Viet Nam War?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If you don't think there is "untrammeled greed and selfishness" in socialist countries boy are you clueless. Do you really think there is not a huge gap between the haves and the have nots in socialist countries?


I really feel I have to warn you. What Stephen Colbert said once upon time tends to be quite true: "The facts have a liberal bias."

Pardon me while I have a good laugh about the plain truth about things for a minute.

Okay, back to those liberal facts:



> The Top 10 list of Happiest Countries is as follows:
> Denmark
> Finland
> Netherlands
> ...


And do be sure to see the Income Inequality map at the bottom of the page. The U.S. isn't quite the worst, but vast swatches of the world are far, far better, especially those Northern European Socialist states. Btw, 0 on the Gini index is perfect equality and 100 is perfect (and total) inequality.



> Actually, you just sound like one bitter old woman that couldn't make a go of it under capitalism. You live by the mantra if I can't have it, no one can. Let's destroy what made this country great.


You're not a very successful psychic, and you really ought to forego putting words in my mouth or sentiments in my head. I'm not nearly as bitter as I find you -- though I do admit to having not much patience with the likes of rightwing tools and morons (and that lack of patience might show). And I did just fie under capitalism, thank you very little.

But I saw -- and continue to see -- capitalism's vast inequities and the gross injustice at the hands of people whose primary virtue is greed, pure and simple. Greed, mean-spiritedness and outright cruelty. I admit to having no compassion for those people, though I should because in my heart I know their "sins" are due to their own severe mental and emotional wounding, their psychological frailties and failings. But sheesh, most of them don't even TRY to do better -- well, they'd have to recognize they have a problem first, but they just think they're "winning!!!"


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> How about including DD Eisenhower in the Viet Nam War?


I didn't write the article.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Thought this might be of interest to some here:



> *Gen. Colin Powell calls for universal (single payer) health care in the U.S.*
> Former Secretary of State and longtime Republican Colin Powell is calling for a universal health care solution in the U.S.
> 
> We are a wealthy enough country with the capacity to make sure that every one of our fellow citizens has access to quality health care, he said Thursday at a Seattle fundraiser for prostate cancer. (Lets show) the rest of the world what our democratic system is all about and how we take care of all of our citizens."
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Interesting reading:
Liberal Nightmare: 462 Examples Of Obamas Lying, Lawbreaking & Corruption
Posted by: Brandon Walker Posted date: December 04, 2013 In: Economics, News, Videos

http://freepatriot.org/2013/12/04/liberal-nightmare-462-examples-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption/


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

SHHHHH......EVERYBODY'S SLEEPING. :wink:


momeee said:


> Interesting reading:
> Liberal Nightmare: 462 Examples Of Obamas Lying, Lawbreaking & Corruption
> Posted by: Brandon Walker Posted date: December 04, 2013 In: Economics, News, Videos
> 
> http://freepatriot.org/2013/12/04/liberal-nightmare-462-examples-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption/


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> I am so saddened that there is a level of viciousness on this site. To me, it is a sign of a sick person to twist things and write what they write. It is not normal. Life is too short to have these kinds of people in my life.
> 
> Thank you for being there. I appreciate all that you write and also for being there...


I agree. I actually thought a level of intelligent conversation/debate could be had on some of these threads. I have since learned it is impossible as the majority of Liberals/Progressives only wish to be argumentative, hateful and insulting in attempt to get their ideals across while putting those with different views down. I'm tired of the charade and dance.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lukelucy have you started on your Christmas shopping?


Hi CB,

Yes - over the internet. Plus, I am making cowls for gifts. I found a Cascade Heritage pattern on the Cascade website (the "jade" color). I was (maybe still am) having a very difficult time knitting it up because it is lace. I have got it going though. I got a lot done (in the round) and discovered that I twisted the thing and had to start completely over. That's after starting over several times! I hope they like it.

Here is the link to see the photo:

http://www.cascadeyarns.com/patternsFree/FW112_HeritageTrellisLaceCowl.pdf

I just started and am going crazy because I want to make 2 or three of them and Christmas is so close. Late start.

How about you? You have many kids to shop for. Did you write before that you had started?

Hope you and family are all well!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That is THE problem with Walmart. When it comes into an area ALL other stores FAIL. The profits for Walmart are staggering and the amount of money that stays in the town is minuscule. I believe 95% goes to Walmart and 5% stays in the area.


Believe what you want, but remember I'll laugh all the way to the bank! At least the money stays in America!

The other stores fail because they have been robbing the people with their huge profits, but they yell & blame Walmart.

My dad left me several shares of WM stock that has pulled me out of "hand to mouth" with an income for life. He bought them when they were first on the NY stock exchange & gave them to me. I put them into a safety deposit box at our bank then in order to save the boxes rental--found them again.

I took them to an attorney who brought in a financial planner & were amazed with the process of determining the # of shares today & the value! They were preferred shares.

My dad would have been 104 this year! Such a wise man! He took care of me from the grave during a time when he knew I needed help. My mother would have been 100 this year. I'm very proud to be their daughter & still love them very much!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh.....then why don't you tell me all about it?


I bet all your children want for Christmas is a mom that celebrates the Season and does mock it with pictures of children with Santa followed by hateful comments


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB,
> 
> Yes - over the internet. Plus, I am making cowls for gifts. I found a Cascade Heritage pattern on the Cascade website (the "jade" color). I was (maybe still am) having a very difficult time knitting it up because it is lace. I have got it going though. I got a lot done (in the round) and discovered that I twisted the thing and had to start completely over. That's after starting over several times! I hope they like it.
> 
> ...


These are lovely & great gifts. Thanks.

This is what I made for one of my friends.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I bet all your children want for Christmas is a mom that celebrates the Season and does mock it with pictures of children with Santa followed by hateful comments


Yes, LTL, as people forget the reason for the season! The celebration of the birth of Jesus! Thank you dear friend.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. I actually thought a level of intelligent conversation/debate could be had on some of these threads. I have since learned it is impossible as the majority of Liberals/Progressives only wish to be argumentative, hateful and insulting in attempt to get their ideals across while putting those with different views down. I'm tired of the charade and dance.


Thank you dear lovely lady as you have them pegged very well! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

momeee said:


> Interesting reading:
> Liberal Nightmare: 462 Examples Of Obamas Lying, Lawbreaking & Corruption
> Posted by: Brandon Walker Posted date: December 04, 2013 In: Economics, News, Videos
> 
> http://freepatriot.org/2013/12/04/liberal-nightmare-462-examples-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption/


Hi momeee, are you ready for Christmas? My shopping is done! Cooking is not.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Your famous last words to me...(I choose to skip most of you posts)....you keep posting to me OVER & OVER & OVER & OVER.........lol.


How is this?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Whether Healthcare.gov or any of the state exchanges are working well, I am incredibly glad I don't have to participate in the process of gatting health insurance at all. My health plan didn't drop me. The cost has gone up a little, as it does every year, but the increases haven't been anything like what people say they are getting now that the ACA is going into effect. Somehow or other, I have dodged tne latest health insurance bullet. So far, so good and I pray it stays that way.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB,
> 
> Yes - over the internet. Plus, I am making cowls for gifts. I found a Cascade Heritage pattern on the Cascade website (the "jade" color). I was (maybe still am) having a very difficult time knitting it up because it is lace. I have got it going though. I got a lot done (in the round) and discovered that I twisted the thing and had to start completely over. That's after starting over several times! I hope they like it.
> 
> ...


Very pretty LL - best wishes for your success in finishing them!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> These are lovely & great gifts. Thanks.
> 
> This is what I made for one of my friends.


Love the yarn, great job.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Yes, LTL, as people forget the reason for the season! The celebration of the birth of Jesus! Thank you dear friend.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Thank you dear lovely lady as you have them pegged very well! :thumbup: :thumbup:


I'd dance with you any day. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> How is this?


She complains because I answer her when she addresses me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Mommee thanks for your post.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95.


Thank goodness he lived a long life, survived 27 years in prison and achieved his dreams.

His death reminds me of another death. On February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was assassinated. I believe he would have done as much for the US as Mandela did for South Africa. We were all robbed on that long-ago February day, and all because Elijah Mohammed was a dirty little con man.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't write the article.


You should have done a little more research,, can't always trust the printed word.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Believe what you want, but remember I'll laugh all the way to the bank! At least the money stays in America!
> 
> The other stores fail because they have been robbing the people with their huge profits, but they yell & blame Walmart.
> 
> ...


Walmart also makes China rich. Where do you think most of their products come from? 70% of the products are mae in China. Cheap products, sold here at a high profit, yet their workers get minimum wage and few benefits. Greed has taken over his country. Profits for corporations not raises for workers.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Our involvement in Viet Nam started during Eisenhower's administration, in 1954, as part of the Cold War. JFK continued and increased our presence there, and Johnson, a big piece of slime of either Democrtic or Republican party affiliation, really ran with it.

FDR didn't start WWII. He brought the US into it because of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and declared war on Japan. Germany then declared war on the US. WWII started in 1939 in Western Europe as a war against Germany and Hitler. The US maintained an isolationist policy until the attack on Pearl Harbor. FDR would have preferred to maintain an isolationist policy and never bring the US into WWII, but Pearl Harbor changed all that.

Yes, I know the party affiliations of Presidents FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and Johnson so you don't need to tell me what they were. What you might want to do is read a little American history.


theyarnlady said:


> Just wanted to know if any one thought that only Republican Presidents started all the wars.
> 
> Seems some do not remember or know that:
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Concerning what party affiliatons which Presidents had when they brought the US into any wars, I meant to add that more people died of influenza during WWI than directly as a result of that war. An estimated 675,000 Americans died of influenza. The flu pandemic took place in 1918-19, so part of it is obviously post-WWI, but that also means approximately 338,000 died in the US in 1918. However, the point is disease has no party affiliation.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You should have done a little more research,, can't always trust the printed word.


Where is your proof? From a voice? Spin from the democrats that started a war is all I see you have posted.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And you are addressing me WHY????? Is it possible you are posting to the wrong person? 
You go back now and look to whom I was posting, and what she posted back.
And you needn't worry about my children. Holidays in my family, have always been looked forward to with great anticipation and perpetration. And now grown, my daughters have continued with the same excitement. And now my Granddaughters are able to enjoy the fun and excitement of every holiday. 
So, sorry, you're way off the mark with your put down. If you want to accuse me of being something bad (which you shouldn't anyway, as I didn't post anything to you)....you'll have to find something other than my family holidays.

P.S. What kind of Christian person would try to use someones family as a put down.....Shame on you....... :thumbdown:


lovethelake said:


> I bet all your children want for Christmas is a mom that celebrates the Season and does mock it with pictures of children with Santa followed by hateful comments


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Walmart also makes China rich. Where do you think most of their products come from? 70% of the products are mae in China. Cheap products, sold here at a high profit, yet their workers get minimum wage and few benefits. Greed has taken over his country. Profits for corporations not raises for workers.


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> And you are addressing me WHY????? Is it possible you are posting to the wrong person?
> You go back now and look to whom I was posting, and what she posted back.
> And you needn't worry about my children. Holidays in my family, have always been looked forward to with great anticipation and perpetration. And now grown, my daughters have continued with the same excitement. And now my Granddaughters are able to enjoy the fun and excitement of every holiday.
> So, sorry, you're way off the mark with your put down. If you want to accuse me of being something bad (which you shouldn't anyway, as I didn't post anything to you)....you'll have to find something other than my family holidays.
> ...


Agree--that comment was inappropriate. Looks like someone's due for a stocking full of coal on the 25th.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes, Wendy is one of those "low skilled workers" that they on the right talk about, who did exactly what they always say people should do, she furthered her education and became very self sufficient. But now they complain because she doesn't give enough to charity to suit them. Well get over yourselves righties, cause she doesn't answer to you. My guess is she has done more in her life so far, than any of you have ever done, and she isn't through yet.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> These are lovely & great gifts. Thanks.
> 
> This is what I made for one of my friends.


Very nice, Janeway.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Very pretty LL - best wishes for your success in finishing them!


Thank you!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB,
> 
> Yes - over the internet. Plus, I am making cowls for gifts. I found a Cascade Heritage pattern on the Cascade website (the "jade" color). I was (maybe still am) having a very difficult time knitting it up because it is lace. I have got it going though. I got a lot done (in the round) and discovered that I twisted the thing and had to start completely over. That's after starting over several times! I hope they like it.
> 
> ...


I love the cowl. Love the color! I have only made 2 pair of slippers for the 2 oldest boys. Need to get going . I want to just knit but have waited too late for gifts. They may get their knitting after Christmas. Only shopped for a few of them. Don't know what I am waiting for.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Thank you. This proves what we have been saying all along. If you want to improve your life, you have to do the work to get the education/skills required to make it happen. The government isn't going to do it for you. I wonder where she would be today if she didn't read that pamphlet.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you. This proves what we have been saying all along. If you want to improve your life, you have to do the work to get the education/skills required to make it happen. The government isn't going to do it for you. I wonder where she would be today if she didn't read that pamphlet.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I love the cowl. Love the color! I have only made 2 pair of slippers for the 2 oldest boys. Need to get going . I want to just knit but have waited too late for gifts. They may get their knitting after Christmas. Only shopped for a few of them. Don't know what I am waiting for.


Two pairs of slippers is a lot. Good girl. This cowl is so difficult. Stay away from it unless you have a lot of patience.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Two pairs of slippers is a lot. Good girl. This cowl is so difficult. Stay away from it unless you have a lot of patience.


Ok I will. I have a hard time with lace. Just finished one last week. Not a cowl but a scarf.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ok I will. I have a hard time with lace. Just finished one last week. Not a cowl but a scarf.


Lace is so hard. But, I'm committed. Bought the yarn and will not waste it!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Lace is so hard. But, I'm committed. Bought the yarn and will not waste it!


 You can do it. You have done it on the sweaters.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You can do it. You have done it on the sweaters.


Thanks, CB. You have faith in me!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Thanks, CB. You have faith in me!


LL, you can do it. It really is a pretty pattern and will make a lovely gift.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> LL, you can do it. It really is a pretty pattern and will make a lovely gift.


Do you think it will make a nice gift? I wasn't sure. I'll go by what you say. Thank you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Where is your proof? From a voice? Spin from the democrats that started a war is all I see you have posted.


I checked it out online and actually learned about it in high school.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB,
> 
> Yes - over the internet. Plus, I am making cowls for gifts. I found a Cascade Heritage pattern on the Cascade website (the "jade" color). I was (maybe still am) having a very difficult time knitting it up because it is lace. I have got it going though. I got a lot done (in the round) and discovered that I twisted the thing and had to start completely over. That's after starting over several times! I hope they like it.
> 
> ...


Very nice cowl, LL. Hope you don't mind that I downloaded it. I will attempt it later. Knitting lace does not scare me but I have to be in a very settled mood to knit it because it takes so much concentration on my part.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You mean like Wendy Davis, TX - Dem, who harps on folks to do their fair share for charity? Her tax records just released shows she gave a whopping .6 of one percent (less than 1%) of her income to charity. What a fraud ...


She's not the only one by far. Remember Algore? When he was VP? Biden, I hear, is no big donor either. They are very good at taking from others and redistributing it, some to their friends, but their own they leave at home.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you have her pegged well. I'm all for ignoring her ignorant and hateful posts along with you.


I agree. Why be part of their hatemongering! :-(


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Very nice cowl, LL. Hope you don't mind that I downloaded it. I will attempt it later. Knitting lace does not scare me but I have to be in a very settled mood to do because it takes so much concentration.


Jokim,

Enjoy! I am glad you like it enough to want to make one. Makes me feel better about giving it as a gift. Tell me the color when you decide. I ordered the Heritage yarn and did the color in the photo. It is a great color.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> Enjoy! I am glad you like it enough to want to make one. Makes me feel better about giving it as a gift. Tell me the color when you decide. I ordered the Heritage yarn and did the color in the photo. It is a great color.


What type of yarn are you using and what's the weight? I will probably attempt mine after Christmas. Less stressful then. I'm thinking something in a drape-able yarn, baby alpaca, suri preferred.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> What type of yarn are you using and what's the weight? I will probably attempt mine after Christmas. Less stressful then. I'm thinking something in a drape-able yarn, baby alpaca, suri preferred.


Jokim,

Look at the pattern. The yarn is Heritage (as in the title of the pattern). So, I used Cascade Heritage yarn. It is very thin. I think fingerling or sock. I am not sure.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

momeee said:


> Interesting reading:
> Liberal Nightmare: 462 Examples Of Obamas Lying, Lawbreaking & Corruption
> Posted by: Brandon Walker Posted date: December 04, 2013 In: Economics, News, Videos
> 
> http://freepatriot.org/2013/12/04/liberal-nightmare-462-examples-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption/


FWIW, some of those I question as to the accuracy of, but some of those I'm hoppin' mad at Obama about too. I don't know anyone here to claims he's perfect -- and all those ways he continued Bush's crimes and sins are at the top of my list of things I'm really, really mad about.

As for the "lies," I'd like to point out that it's not a lie if you actually intend to do something when you promise it, but later can't or even change your mind. Even when those changes of mind are highly objectionable, it still doesn't constitute a lie. I see no recognition on the right of that simple reality, and that damages their (your) credibility in my mind. That's not a defense of anything Obama has done or said, just a statement about Reality, capital R.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. I actually thought a level of intelligent conversation/debate could be had on some of these threads. I have since learned it is impossible as the majority of Liberals/Progressives only wish to be argumentative, hateful and insulting in attempt to get their ideals across while putting those with different views down. I'm tired of the charade and dance.


Oh, tell me please how you folks have been such wonderful role models. All I see from your side is that same argumentative, hateful and insulting jibes you say you object to from us. Get real.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Believe what you want, but remember I'll laugh all the way to the bank! At least the money stays in America!
> 
> The other stores fail because they have been robbing the people with their huge profits, but they yell & blame Walmart.


You're a little confused about who gets the huge profits -- and it ain't the small mom-and-pop Main Street retailers. Do you know what Wal-Mart does in its pursuit of billions of dollars for the Walton family? They get a new supplier, who almost always has to massively scale up to accommodate their wonderful new customer, and then Wal-Mart -- fully congizant of the barrel they've lured their supplier over, puts the screws to them, demanding unrealistic accommodations on price and other factors so bad that the supplier can't continue to function and stay in business. If their "new" supplier doesn't comply, they drop them and the new supplier is often out of business as a result.



> My dad left me several shares of WM stock.....


Hmmm, don't you claim a Native American heritage? How does that work exactly, because our First Americans aren't really known for their buy in and support of capitalism. Was your father Native American? Your mother? What kind of work did he or they do? I'm really curious.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> Look at the pattern. The yarn is Heritage (as in the title of the pattern). So, I used Cascade Heritage yarn. It is very thin. I think fingerling or sock. I am not sure.


Oops!  Sorry, I missed your statement about the yarn you're using. The color is very complimentary. It will make a beautiful gift. For mine, I will probably search my stash and find something there of the same weight. When are you planning on starting it? Keep me posted on its progress.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes, Wendy is one of those "low skilled workers" that they on the right talk about, who did exactly what they always say people should do, she furthered her education and became very self sufficient. But now they complain because she doesn't give enough to charity to suit them. Well get over yourselves righties, cause she doesn't answer to you. My guess is she has done more in her life so far, than any of you have ever done, and she isn't through yet.


Yeah, I don't see them offering numbers on their own charitable giving. I think if you're going to complain about that regarding others, you need to put your mouth where your money went and tell us how and where and exactly how much (what percentage of your total income). Otherwise, STFU about others' "lack" of sufficient charitable giving.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> She's not the only one by far. Remember Algore? When he was VP? Biden, I hear, is no big donor either. They are very good at taking from others and redistributing it, some to their friends, but their own they leave at home.


Like I said just now in another post -- what, exactly, do you give and to whom? What percentage of your total income? If you can't or won't share that, you've got no right criticizing others for what you PERCEIVE is their stinginess. None whatsoever.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Like I said just now in another post -- what, exactly, do you give and to whom? What percentage of your total income? If you can't or won't share that, you've got no right criticizing others for what you PERCEIVE is their stinginess. None whatsoever.


The info I referred to was taken from income tax returns and published in the papers. Don't tell me what rights I have! In the least,I have a right state my opinions!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Oops!  Sorry, I missed your statement about the yarn you're using. The color is very complimentary. It will make a beautiful gift. For mine, I will probably search my stash and find something there of the same weight. When are you planning on starting it? Keep me posted on its progress.


Jokim, I am just half-way through the first one. Concentration! is a must for this one.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I added it to my to make list too. Yummy

Don't forget Clinton donated his underpants


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I added it to my to make list too. Yummy
> 
> Don't forget Clinton donated his underpants


Now, it's remarks like that, that give you and your friends a bad name.....You are a very crass (lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence) person.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> The info I referred to was taken from income tax returns and published in the papers. Don't tell me what rights I have! In the least,I have a right state my opinions!


Well, apparently I hit a nerve. I'm not surprised.

You don't exactly have the moral high ground here, you know, but yeah, sure, you're definitely entitled to have an opinion.

And having the right to an opinion, and the right to state your opinion, means I also have a right to have an opinion ABOUT that opinion of yours -- and also state mine, which I did.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I added it to my to make list too. Yummy
> 
> Don't forget Clinton donated his underpants


You folks ought to take your knitting discussion to one of the knitting threads. I love my knitting and I love talking about my knitting, but NOT on my political discussion threads. I think it's rude to be so off topic for so long.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You folks ought to take your knitting discussion to one of the knitting threads. I love my knitting and I love talking about my knitting, but NOT on my political discussion threads. I think it's rude to be so off topic for so long.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

This brought me to tears today, and I wanted to share it:



> My brother is a Navigator in another state, where he assists people face-to-face by appointment to sign up for healthcare on the federal marketplace. There is so much demand for getting insurance through the exchange, now that the website is working, that his office has extended hours from daytime to every evening and weekends.
> 
> I have a 30 year-old niece (single) with an AGI of about $15,000.00 who is signing up for health insurance at a cost of $25.00 per month.
> 
> ...


And I thought this was pretty darned interesting too:



> * Kentucky Governor To Mitch McConnell: Get Your Facts Straight On Obamacare*
> 
> WASHINGTON -- It was just Wednesday night that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) railed against the Affordable Care Act, calling it a "catastrophic failure" for people everywhere.
> 
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thanks, CB. You have faith in me!


I think it will be wonderful gift! :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Now, it's remarks like that, that give you and your friends a bad name.....You are a very crass (lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence) person.


Attack, attack, attack. Can't you do anything else but attack?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

No one with a bit of sense is going to reply to what you've asked. "Can't" and "won't" don't have anything to do with it. If you think your questions are valid, you need to take a long time to do some major rethinking.


Knitry said:


> Like I said just now in another post -- what, exactly, do you give and to whom? What percentage of your total income? If you can't or won't share that, you've got no right criticizing others for what you PERCEIVE is their stinginess. None whatsoever.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm not the one who said something that was so trashy....
Do you think what she said was nice? Because if you do, you are no diff. than she is.



Lukelucy said:


> Attack, attack, attack. Can't you do anything else but attack?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Will republicans ever learn how to talk to women and about women? These are grown men, so why do they need instructions. I think it is because they can't help but say how they really feel and what they really believe. 


GOP men tutored in running against women

"Republicans have just been handed a new syllabus. "How to Talk to Women 101" is now a required course for GOP House incumbents -- to help them stop insulting women candidates (and voters!) and avoid another Todd Akin "legitimate rape" scenario."

"But one thing is clear -- no matter how hard the GOP tries to stop saying stupid things about women in public -- they can't hide their agenda. It's a War on Women -- and women have noticed."

"Actions speak louder than words, and no amount of words will ever make up for mandatory ultrasounds, slashing funds to Planned Parenthood, or not trusting us to make our own decisions."


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> No one with a bit of sense is going to reply to what you've asked. "Can't" and "won't" don't have anything to do with it. If you think your questions are valid, you need to take a long time to do some major rethinking.


Congratulations. You've stumbled over my exact point. I'll phrase it this way: MY questions are as valid as their criticisms.

Of course, YMMV I suppose, in which case, to each her own.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Will republicans ever learn how to talk to women and about women? These are grown men, so why do they need instructions. I think it is because they can't help but say how they really feel and what they really believe.
> 
> GOP men tutored in running against women
> 
> ...


Like Martin Bashir talks about Sarah Palin?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Attack, attack, attack. Can't you do anything else but attack?


I'm afraid they can't, LL.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Attack, attack, attack. Can't you do anything else but attack?


LL read back a few comments to see who actually did the attacking. As usual you are out of touch.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I have no idea what YMMV means. If your original post was meant to be sarcastic, that didn't make it into print. Emotion rarely comes off as intended around here. Try writing well enough so you can be clearly understood.


Knitry said:


> Congratulations. You've stumbled over my exact point. I'll phrase it this way: MY questions are as valid as their criticisms.
> 
> Of course, YMMV I suppose, in which case, to each her own.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy & Jokim - This ATTACK you are talking about is exactly what you want. You want others to attack you, so you can point your fingers and say....."See, we told you so!" But you are missing one important thing. The only one who's been doing the attacking are you and your friends. And when we don't rise to the bait, and we answer you with honesty and logic, it makes you so mad, you can't control yourselves, and then accuse us of going on the attack. You know it's true, and so does everyone else.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Because one of the liberal's back a few pages claim that only Republicans start and love war.

I posted a list of Democratic Presidents who also went into war.

I have nothing against Rossevelt and going into WWII. I understand why it had to be.

But he was a Democrat 

I do not need history lesson but you need to learn a few manners.

A while back 
One person brought up family and as I was told family member were off bounds comment on that. Her post was on the same page as your's was about your mother. So I posted to both of you on one post.

As you had listed your mother being sick I then posted How was your mother. 

You took it to a different level, and attack me???

Why because both questions where on the same post? 

I was being kind and hoping that all was o.k. with her, you went off the wall attacking me. 

If you noticed not one of the lib's bother to ask you about her or if she was o.k.

But then I have learned with you you go off the wall for no reason other than to what I don't know.

Maybe you should study history a little more yourself, and also check what is written to you before you post.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Good one, Nussa. I've noticed how honestly and logically everyone around here is. NOT. This topic should be called "Attack Central".


Nussa said:


> Lukelucy & Jokim - This ATTACK you are talking about is exactly what you want. You want others to attack you, so you can point your fingers and say....."See, we told you so!" But you are missing one important thing. The only one who's been doing the attacking are you and your friends. And when we don't rise to the bait, and we answer you with honesty and logic, it makes you so mad, you can't control yourselves, and then accuse us of going on the attack. You know it's true, and so does everyone else.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Like Martin Bashir talks about Sarah Palin?


Oh wasn't he a man that one should listen to and what he had to say about her. He made Matthews when he goes off look like a saint.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Anyone remember who the person was that started this post?.......and it wasn't me, or a Democrat.....but it was someone who seems to believe strongly in a specific party.....maybe she should explain what she was thinking when she started this name calling mess!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Good one, Nussa. I've noticed how honestly and logically everyone around here is. NOT. This topic should be called "Attack Central".


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh wasn't he a man that one should listen to and what he had to say about her. He made Matthews when he goes off look like a saint.


No longer with MSNBC, Bashir did not apologize to Sarah Palin. Is it widely reported that he's no longer with MSNBC? :thumbdown:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Like Martin Bashir talks about Sarah Palin?


Wasn't that terrible? I couldn't believe he talked that! Shocking so much hate ! So happy he got fired. Took them long enough.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Hmmm, don't you claim a Native American heritage? How does that work exactly, because our First Americans aren't really known for their buy in and support of capitalism. Was your father Native American? Your mother? What kind of work did he or they do? I'm really curious.


Again, I could care less what you think of me as you only know how to slam me as your "friends" on this thread continue to do concerning my race. Again I'm reporting you as I have others because you are slamming me because of my race.

Where are your manners? I'm not going to say anything more because you will only make horrible remarks & slam me.

Knit something & leave me alone!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Lukelucy & Jokim - This ATTACK you are talking about is exactly what you want. You want others to attack you, so you can point your fingers and say....."See, we told you so!" But you are missing one important thing. The only one who's been doing the attacking are you and your friends. And when we don't rise to the bait, and we answer you with honesty and logic, it makes you so mad, you can't control yourselves, and then accuse us of going on the attack. You know it's true, and so does everyone else.


Oh, pleeeese, give me another excuse for your attacks as when we say anything, all you do is attack! You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer my dear--the lights may be on, but no one is home!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, pleeeese, give me another excuse for your attacks as when we say anything, all you do is attack! You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer my dear--the lights may be on, but no one is home!


Love your saying JW so true. You are the best and much loved.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Love your saying JW so true. You are the best and much loved.


Thank you lovely lady & good morning to you too, hugs.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't know who started this line of remarks. I was just commenting on your last post about the attack environment here. Both "sides" here are really good at attacking anyone they feel like attacking at any given moment. Maybe it's time to drop this whole thread of remarks.


Nussa said:


> Anyone remember who the person was that started this post?.......and it wasn't me, or a Democrat.....but it was someone who seems to believe strongly in a specific party.....maybe she should explain what she was thinking when she started this name calling mess!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Now, it's remarks like that, that give you and your friends a bad name.....You are a very crass (lacking sensitivity, refinement, or intelligence) person.


Would you have preferred underwear? Boxers? Briefs?

Hilarious that you become so inflamed over the generosity of Clinton's less offensive donations, especially when you consider how generous he was with interns.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Uh oh: 7 in 10 Doctors Boycotting California's Obamacare Exchange


If this is so, it doesn't speak well for those in the medical profession. MediCal recipients are our seniors, children from poverty-stricken families, pregnant single moms, the disabled. Any doctor who'd refuse to treat a sick child because there wasn't enough in it for him or her is beneath contempt.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Would you have preferred underwear? Boxers? Briefs?
> 
> Hilarious that you become so inflamed over the generosity of Clinton's less offensive donations, especially when you consider how generous he was with interns.


Actually LTL, I thought your comment was pretty funny. Clinton was brilliant and a master politician, but his personal follies were certainly laughable.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What do expect them to work for, Peanuts? McDonald's employees went on strike for a "living wage." Do you think a doctor is entitled to one?


What is a living wage for a doctor?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone understand why all media calls o this President? http://www.facebook.com/newsmax?sk=app_350174571764134


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You did a very good job Janeway.....kudos to you...
:thumbup:
You just stuck your foot in your mouth with this particular attack. You proved my point. You and your friends are the instigators when it comes to the attacks. Thank you for showing everyone your true colors, as I knew I could count on you to do....Keep up the good work.
:thumbup: 


Janeway said:


> Oh, pleeeese, give me another excuse for your attacks as when we say anything, all you do is attack! You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer my dear--the lights may be on, but no one is home!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Congressman Asks - Is Obama Above the Law?
> 
> Watch the video: Trey Gowdy is a former prosecutor, asks very good questions.
> 
> Read more at http://eaglerising.com/3420/congressman-asks-obama-law/#pJpmrJF4LppeOO5O.99


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I would prefer common decency....


lovethelake said:


> Would you have preferred underwear? Boxers? Briefs?
> 
> Hilarious that you become so inflamed over the generosity of Clinton's less offensive donations, especially when you consider how generous he was with interns.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> If this is so, it doesn't speak well for those in the medical profession. MediCal recipients are our seniors, children from poverty-stricken families, pregnant single moms, the disabled. Any doctor who'd refuse to treat a sick child because there wasn't enough in it for him or her is beneath contempt.


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What do expect them to work for, Peanuts? McDonald's employees went on strike for a "living wage." Do you think a doctor is entitled to one?


A pediatrician averages $210,000 per year--a neurologist $276,000--a dermatologist a whopping $451,953. That's scarcely peanuts.

And might I add too that a doctor's income has little to do with the importance of services rendered. If that were so, it wouldn't be more profitable to treat acne and wrinkles rather than MS and brain tumors.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Like Martin Bashir talks about Sarah Palin?


Martin Bashir no longer has a job because of the way he talked about Sarah Palin.

If you are a grown man who needs to take a class on how to talk to women respectfully, you have no business representing women in public office.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Whatever is your life is worth.


Honey, then no one could afford health care.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh wasn't he a man that one should listen to and what he had to say about her. He made Matthews when he goes off look like a saint.


And what do you suppose O'Rilley, and Beck, and Rushy and Hasselbeck sound like. It took 2 minutes for Hasselbeck to jump on the story about the guy who couldn't get his baby covered under Obamacare. Turns out it is all a lie. Did any of them apologize? NO Did Martin Bashir apologize and resign, yes. I think Rush Limbaugh should be off the air for what he said about Sandra Fluck. How would you have felt if that were your daughter. Not one of the republicans would step up and denounce what he said. Romney just said those are not the words he would have used, but nothing about it being wrong. Fox never apologizes for anything they say, they just keep repeating it and hope it sticks.

Well unemployment is now down to 7%. Guess Obamacare isn't killing jobs, is it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> No longer with MSNBC, Bashir did not apologize to Sarah Palin. Is it widely reported that he's no longer with MSNBC? :thumbdown:


"My role was to accept his apology and be humble enough to accept it and move on," Palin said Thursday on Fox & Friends.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, pleeeese, give me another excuse for your attacks as when we say anything, all you do is attack! You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer my dear--the lights may be on, but no one is home!


Janeway, I cannot believe they wrote that. Amazing. No, we do not want attacks. We are not of that mind. That response of theirs is so wrong - more abuse.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Wasn't that terrible? I couldn't believe he talked that! Shocking so much hate ! So happy he got fired. Took them long enough.


So then why do you love the hate and lies that Fox News spits out?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You did a very good job Janeway.....kudos to you...
> :thumbup:
> You just stuck your foot in your mouth with this particular attack. You proved my point. You and your friends are the instigators when it comes to the attacks. Thank you for showing everyone your true colors, as I knew I could count on you to do....Keep up the good work.
> :thumbup:


Oh, thanks for the off-handed compliment! Nice to know your true colors! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Would you have preferred underwear? Boxers? Briefs?
> 
> Hilarious that you become so inflamed over the generosity of Clinton's less offensive donations, especially when you consider how generous he was with interns.


LTL - just more insults their part. They take any words we write and twist them completely.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Would you have preferred underwear? Boxers? Briefs?
> 
> Hilarious that you become so inflamed over the generosity of Clinton's less offensive donations, especially when you consider how generous he was with interns.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Honey, then no one could afford health care.


Wow, so glad to have had a conversation with a multi-millionaire! NOT!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, pleeeese, give me another excuse for your attacks as when we say anything, all you do is attack! You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer my dear--the lights may be on, but no one is home!


The repubs are the majority of liars, and they never apologize and admit they got something wrong, they just keep repeating it.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Martin Bashir no longer has a job because of the way he talked about Sarah Palin.
> 
> If you are a grown man who needs to take a class on how to talk to women respectfully, you have no business representing women in public office.


We finally agree on something! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What do expect them to work for, Peanuts? McDonald's employees went on strike for a "living wage." Do you think a doctor is entitled to one?


Do you think a walmart, or McDonalds employee is entitled to a living wage?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> The repubs are the majority of liars, and they never apologize and admit they got something wrong, they just keep repeating it.


Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e! You must need a hearing aid & glasses!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Do you think a walmart, or McDonalds employee is entitled to a living wage?


Economically speaking, a job at any fast food restaurant was "never" meant as a permanent full-time job to support a family!

These jobs are for students who want to work until they finish their education or trade school.

My daughters BIL worked at McDonalds while he was in an electrical apprentice school & upon completion, was offered a $40,000 yearly income job! He left McD's for someone to work until they completed their education! The circle is complete.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> So then why do you love the hate and lies that Fox News spits out?


I don't know what you are talking about!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e! You must need a hearing aid & glasses!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I've never read something so illogical in a long time.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> The repubs are the majority of liars, and they never apologize and admit they got something wrong, they just keep repeating it.


You need to turn your rage to your president the liar. He is the one not me , repubs or Fox News or who every else you blame.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need to turn your rage to your president the liar. He is the one not me , repubs or Fox News or who every else you blame.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> We finally agree on something! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


So then tell me why the republican men are taking a class on how to talk to women. My question then is are we going to be hearing the truth from republican men, how they really feel, or are we going to be hearing what they want us to believe? My answer, what they want us to believe.

Speaker John Boehner is serious, too. His own top aides met recently with Republican staff to discuss how lawmakers should talk to female constituents.

While GOP party leaders have talked repeatedly of trying to rebrand the party after the 2012 election losses, the latest effort shows theyre not entirely confident the job is done.

Some of our members just arent as sensitive as they ought to be, Boehner said.

Boehner (R-Ohio) said bluntly that when you look around the Congress, there are a lot more females in the Democrat caucus than there are in the Republican caucus.

In the 2014 cycle, there will be at least 10 races where House GOP male incumbents face Democratic women challengers. More races could crop up as the cycle unfolds.

Individual Republicans have continued to give Democrats plenty of ammunition about being insensitive to womens issues. From Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) talking about rape and pregnancy at a Judiciary Committee hearing earlier this year, to House Republicans passing a 20-week abortion ban in June, to Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) blaming military sexual assault on hormones, there have been repeated instances where GOP lawmakers have come off as tone-deaf to female voters.

Yet the longtime gender gap between the parties continues to be pretty stark for the GOP. Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney lost women to Barack Obama by 11 percentage points in the 2012 election, and the 2013 campaigns saw a similar trend. A series of recent polls show a continued double-digit lead for Democratic candidates among women, with the margin soaring to much higher levels among single female voters. The GOP  which lost female voters by large margins in every competitive Senate race in the 2012 election  also saw a 10-point increase in its unfavorability rating to among women to 63 percent, according to an October ABC/Washington Post poll.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The baby was covered after the parents did a lot of complaining to the right people. Of course the baby is covered now.
> 
> Since unemployment is 7%, why is an extension of the unemployment bill needed? Since the economy is in such good shape under Obama, the usual 26 week limit should be enough.


The baby wasn't covered because the father didn't say he had 4 children, he only listed 3 and then tried to blame the insurance company for telling him 3 times that he would need a separate policy for the baby. Was it all set up to try to make Obamacare look bad, yes I think so. Did he lie about what the insurance company told him, we will never know for sure, but he played it for all it was worth. Had his picture taken with his wife and child, all looking very sad, because the baby wouldn't be covered. He was a republican who had run for county office and lost.

Unemployment insurance needs to be extended because unemployment is still at 7%. You want those people to live in the streets? Maybe a jobs bill would help.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e! You must need a hearing aid & glasses!


I hear and see very well.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Like I said before, What is your life worth or that of your family? snip
> 
> Any doctor really holds life in his hands. What is life worth?


A very good question. It's worth NOTHING if people can't get access to healthcare because they are penniless -- for whatever reason -- and don't have insurance (also for whatever reason). Is that right? Is that the society we want to live in, everyman and woman and child for his/herself and screw everyone else?

Or can the greatest nation in the world (or we used to be) do better than this? Republicans don't even want to; they WANT to punish the poor and disabled and needy by preventing them from having healthcare.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Economically speaking, a job at any fast food restaurant was "never" meant as a permanent full-time job to support a family!
> 
> These jobs are for students who want to work until they finish their education or trade school.
> 
> My daughters BIL worked at McDonalds while he was in an electrical apprentice school & upon completion, was offered a $40,000 yearly income job! He left McD's for someone to work until they completed their education! The circle is complete.


Oh really, and where is that written, cause I need some proof of that. I don't remember ever hearing McDonalds is opening a restaurant so college students have a place to work. The republicans won't pass a jobs bill so what is an educated person to do if they don't have a job. Take one at McDonalds or remain jobless and keep looking. If unemployment runs out, then do they live on the street? Only a republican would use that kind of rational. I think republicans need to accept the facts that with the population we have in the US, there will always be people working at McDonalds to support their family. It is a fact of life.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitry said:


> A very good question. It's worth NOTHING if people can't get access to healthcare because they are penniless -- for whatever reason -- and don't have insurance (also for whatever reason). Is that right? Is that the society we want to live in, everyman and woman and child for his/herself and screw everyone else?
> 
> Or can the greatest nation in the world (or we used to be) do better than this? Republicans don't even want to; they WANT to punish the poor and disabled and needy by preventing them from having healthcare.


ACA is worth nothing either because no one can get on the website


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Are you ready to stop this tit for tat? We could go on forever. Basically all were doing is saying is, "I know you are, but what am I????" It's stupid, futile, useless. Let's just say I know your true colors, you say you know mine and we'll leave it at that. 
I know when to stop beating the dead horse....


Janeway said:


> Oh, thanks for the off-handed compliment! Nice to know your true colors! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> These are specialists. They should be making more than a GP. Like I said before, What is your life worth or that of your family? If your child was injured in a shark attack? Would you go to a GP to have the severed nerves connected?
> 
> Any doctor really holds life in his hands. What is life worth?


According to the Medical Group Management Association and the Department of Labor and Statistics, physicians practicing *primary care* received total median annual compensation of *$202,392*, and physicians practicing in *medical specialties* received total median annual compensation of *$356,885* in 2010. These were the most up-to-date statistics I could find in a quick search.

The above amounts are only averages, and don't include the amount of student debt, income taxes, malpractice insurance, and costs of operating a medical practice any particular physician has to pay.

Of course, everyone's life is priceless and precious. I don't think it's really possible to decide how much money any particular person's life is worth.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will not give them a living wage. Prices of everything will go up and they will be in the same condition as they are now. Seniors and those depending on living on their savings will be hurt. Didn't you learn anything from the 70's?


Indexing the minimum wage means adjusting it automatically each year to keep pace with the rising cost of living. Ten states  Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington  have adopted this best practice so that minimum wage workers do not lose purchasing power each year. In 2013, for example, these states saw their minimum wages automatically go up by 10 to 15 cents, benefiting nearly 1 million workers in these states.

However, the remaining states and the federal government have not yet indexed their minimum wages. As a result, they erode in value each year. Raising the minimum wage at the federal level or in the remaining states requires an act of Congress, action by a state legislature, or a state ballot initiative. The federal minimum wage was stuck at $5.15 an hour for ten years before it was finally increased in 2007.

Contrary to stereotypes, low-wage workers whose pay scales are affected by the minimum wage are overwhelmingly adults, many supporting families. Adults over the age of 20 make up 88 percent of all workers who would receive a raise if the federal minimum wage were raised to $10.10 per hour, according to an analysis of Census data by the Economic Policy Institute. The median worker age is close to 40 for home health care workers, one of the nations top-growth low-wage occupations. Especially after the Great Recession, more and more Americans are spending their careers in low-wage jobs where the minimum wage helps set pay scales.

Raising the minimum wage right now is more important than ever. Minimum wage increases stimulate the economy by increasing consumer spending, without adding to state and federal budget deficits. Consumer spending drives 70 percent of the economy, and increasing demand is key for jumpstarting production and re-hiring. A raise in the minimum wage puts money into the pockets of low-income consumers, who immediately spend it at local businesses. The Economic Policy Institute estimates that the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2013, which would raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour, would generate $32 billion in new economic activity in communities across the country. Strengthening the minimum wage can help build a sustainable economic recovery  without increasing costs for taxpayers.

And more families than ever are relying on low-wage and minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. This is because job losses during the Great Recession hit higher-wage sectors like construction, manufacturing and finance hard, while new job growth has been concentrated disproportionately in low-wage industries. Fully 58 percent of all jobs created in the post-recession were low-wage occupations, according to a 2012 report by the National Employment Law Project. This is not a short term trend  six of the top ten growth occupations projected by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics for next decade are low-wage jobs, including home health aides, customer service representatives, food preparation and service workers, personal and home care aides, retail salespersons, and office clerks. Raising the minimum wage would boost pay scales in these types of jobs where millions of Americans today spend their careers

The best economic research, and real world experiences with minimum wage increases, confirms that raising the minimum wage does not cause job loss. The decade following the federal minimum wage increase in 1996-1997 ushered in one of the strongest periods of job growth in decades. Analyses of states with minimum wages higher than the federal floor between 1998 and 2003 showed that their job growth was actually stronger overall than in states that kept the lower federal level. The most sophisticated minimum wage study to date, published in November 2010 by economists at the University of Massachusetts, University of North Carolina, and University of California, compared employment data among every pair of neighboring U.S. counties that straddle a state border and had differing minimum wage levels at any time between 1990 and 2006, and found that minimum wage increases did not cost jobs. A companion study published in April 2011 found that these results hold true even during periods of recession and high unemployment.

http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/pages/qanda


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Again, I could care less what you think of me as you only know how to slam me as your "friends" on this thread continue to do concerning my race. Again I'm reporting you as I have others because you are slamming me because of my race.
> 
> Where are your manners? I'm not going to say anything more because you will only make horrible remarks & slam me.
> 
> Knit something & leave me alone!


There they go again, Janie. Harping on your ethnicity because you don't fit their mold of political persuasion. You are not a lib, as they think all Native Americans are or should be. Indeed many N.Americans are very conservative especially if they own a business or have a good steady job. Though I'm not a Native American, it happened to me also. My answer was that I grew up and figured the way things were for myself. I stopped being a mind-numb robot when I learned to read. Stopped them short in their tracks. It's not smart to assume, sometimes. ;-) :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't know what you are talking about!


Jane told me I need a hearing aid and glasses, but I think you need them.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Congressman Asks - Is Obama Above the Law?
> 
> Watch the video: Trey Gowdy is a former prosecutor, asks very good questions.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> You folks ought to take your knitting discussion to one of the knitting threads. I love my knitting and I love talking about my knitting, but NOT on my political discussion threads. I think it's rude to be so off topic for so long.


Since when has this become YOUR political thread? Get people into a room (on a thread) together and the topic can move in any direction and back, especially with women. What is your problem with that? Really.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Like Martin Bashir talks about Sarah Palin?


Or Bill Maher or Ed Schultz, etc., etc. And even Rush Limbaugh.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:



> The baby was covered after the parents did a lot of complaining to the right people. Of course the baby is covered now.
> 
> Since unemployment is 7%, why is an extension of the unemployment bill needed? Since the economy is in such good shape under Obama, the usual 26 week limit should be enough.


I remember a time when Dems considered unemployment at anything over 5% unacceptable! But when they're in power or if it suits their purpose, 7% or higher is fine. :thumbdown: 
Truth be told, if the real unemployment numbers were to be published, they would come closer to 16%, higher in some minority communities.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need to turn your rage to your president the liar. He is the one not me , repubs or Fox News or who every else you blame.


Exactly right, CB! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Bill Maher is a comedian and is not telling the news. I love Ed Schultz as he works for the middle class and if he gets something wrong, he apologizes and corrects it. Fox never does that. They keep repeating it. As far as Rush, I think he is a despicable person.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> What is a living wage for a doctor?


One where the doctor can keep their practice open, employees paid and then allow themselves a salary. That cannot be done on $26.00 to $76.00 per patient visit.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Since when has this become YOUR political thread? Get people into a room (on a thread) together and the topic can move in any direction and back, especially with women. What is your problem with that? Really.


More reading comprehension issues.

It was meant in the sense of "any discussion I'm participating in," and I would THINK you knew that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> ACA is worth nothing either because no one can get on the website


Not true anymore, CB. The website can now handle 50,000 at once and is still in the process of being improved.
Look at the statistics from Kentucky alone and see how many have signed up so far on the website.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> And what do you suppose O'Rilley, and Beck, and Rushy and Hasselbeck sound like. It took 2 minutes for Hasselbeck to jump on the story about the guy who couldn't get his baby covered under Obamacare. Turns out it is all a lie. Did any of them apologize? NO Did Martin Bashir apologize and resign, yes. I think Rush Limbaugh should be off the air for what he said about Sandra Fluck. How would you have felt if that were your daughter. Not one of the republicans would step up and denounce what he said. Romney just said those are not the words he would have used, but nothing about it being wrong. Fox never apologizes for anything they say, they just keep repeating it and hope it sticks.
> 
> Well unemployment is now down to 7%. Guess Obamacare isn't killing jobs, is it.


 I doubt Obamacare is the reason the unemployment number is down. There are still millions that are unemployed and not even looking for a job anymore. It's a stretch to say Obamacare is responsible for the drop in the rate.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> There they go again, Janie. Harping on your ethnicity because you don't fit their mold of political persuasion. You are not a lib, as they think all Native Americans are or should be. Indeed many N.Americans are very conservative especially if they own a business or have a good steady job. Though I'm not a Native American, it happened to me also. My answer was that I grew up and figured the way things were for myself. I stopped being a mind-numb robot when I learned to read. Stopped them short in their tracks. It's not smart to assume, sometimes. ;-) :thumbup:


Oh bull feathers! This is just what Janeway wants. Someone to say, "Oh, Jane, you poor thing." Janeway invites all of the negative remarks she receives. 
Nobody cares about her ethnicity. SHE is the one who brings it up all of the time and is constantly calling the rest of the thread racist.
Get over it and move on!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not true anymore, CB. The website can now handle 50,000 at once and is still in the process of being improved.
> Look at the statistics from Kentucky alone and see how many have signed up so far on the website.


Besides the fact that the Kentucky governor wants the people of Kentucky to have healthcare and has worked with that goal in mind. Republican governors are usually doing the opposite and trying to sabotage the ACA any way they can. I now read that Rick Perry has a lot of state congressmen/women complaining to him that their constituents are complaining to them that they want healthcare and they are afraid they will not be able to keep their seats in congress. Wouldn't it be awesome if Rick Perry had to eat crow?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I doubt Obamacare is the reason the unemployment number is down. There are still millions that are unemployed and not even looking for a job anymore. It's a stretch to say Obamacare is responsible for the drop in the rate.


I didn't say it was the reason, you need to read better. Republicans have been saying the ACA would kill jobs, but the number didn't go up did it?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> The baby wasn't covered because the father didn't say he had 4 children, he only listed 3 and then tried to blame the insurance company for telling him 3 times that he would need a separate policy for the baby. Was it all set up to try to make Obamacare look bad, yes I think so. Did he lie about what the insurance company told him, we will never know for sure, but he played it for all it was worth. Had his picture taken with his wife and child, all looking very sad, because the baby wouldn't be covered. He was a republican who had run for county office and lost.
> 
> Unemployment insurance needs to be extended because unemployment is still at 7%. You want those people to live in the streets? Maybe a jobs bill would help.


It needs to be extended because all that has happened job wise under this administration is a complete surge of part time jobs. We have become a part time nation. Part time wages will never equal a living wage.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For a good part of 7 years I worked as many as 4 part time jobs to make at the most $17,000 a year. The slightly above minimum job I had, became a minimum wage job when the minimum wage went up. The extra the owner had to pay new employees, was in place of any raise his deserving loyal employees should have gotten. Many discontented workers.
> 
> At that time I was the basic breadwinner in the family. If I did not work, we did not eat. If I can do that in my 50's. I do not see why 20's and 30's are not able to do it.


And how do you know that there aren't a lot of people out there doing just that. Republicans just continue to put everyone in their little box and say they are all the same. Why do you do that? You evidently don't know real people that are struggling, it is just "those people."


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right it is worth nothing, if there are no doctors willing to accept the pittance that Obamacare is willing to pay. Obamacare is nothing more than a piece of paper unless a doctor is available and willing to give him care.
> 
> Why didn't Obamacare help the ones that were uninsured rather than to wreck the insurance coverage people were already paying for?


Because you Republicans would be full of rage that someone was getting another handout.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It needs to be extended because all that has happened job wise under this administration is a complete surge of part time jobs. We have become a part time nation. Part time wages will never equal a living wage.


Then why won't the republicans work on a jobs bill? It is because they don't want President Obama to succeed. They themselves have said it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Or Bill Maher or Ed Schultz, etc., etc. And even Rush Limbaugh.


You do know that Bill Maher is a satirist and a comedien, don't you, solowey?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> A pediatrician averages $210,000 per year--a neurologist $276,000--a dermatologist a whopping $451,953. That's scarcely peanuts.
> 
> And might I add too that a doctor's income has little to do with the importance of services rendered. If that were so, it wouldn't be more profitable to treat acne and wrinkles rather than MS and brain tumors.


Do you not understand that for most doctors they chose their career as a vocation? They want to help people. It's not all about the almighty dollar, joey. 
None of them are worried about where their next meal will come from.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

t


NJG said:


> Do you think a walmart, or McDonalds employee is entitled to a living wage?


The federal minimum wage doesn't seem to be a living wage. Full-time employment equals about 22 days or 173 hours per month. If you are paid $7.25 and hour for 173 hours, you'd have a gross income pf $1,254.25 a month. Withholding amounts to about 22% for that gross income. After all your deductions, you'd get a net income of around $978 a month.

I can't think of any place in the US where an individual could live on $978 a month. Minimum wage rates in states that set their own minimum wages range from $5.15 in Georgia to $9.19 in Washington. This translates to a net monthly income of $695 to $1240. That's just for a single person. (The information about minimum wages comes from the DOL's Wage and Hours Division.)

Again, it looks like minimum wages aren't "living wages". Some people can't do any better than earn the minimum wage. No wonder they look for as many government benefits they can possibly qualify for.

The last job I had paid me $21.25 an hour. That meant a net monthly income of about $2550. I could live a modest middle class life on that even though rents are unusually high where I live. So, a living wage for a single person in the San Francisco Bay Area *was* around $20 an hour. Rents and costs of basics like food and utilities have gone up in the 7 years since I was last employed. I hate to think how much a person would need to earn here to be able to say they're making a living wage.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ed Schultz had his own radio show in ND before he went national. An honest and fair man....


NJG said:


> Bill Maher is a comedian and is not telling the news. I love Ed Schultz as he works for the middle class and if he gets something wrong, he apologizes and corrects it. Fox never does that. They keep repeating it. As far as Rush, I think he is a despicable person.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Then why won't the republicans work on a jobs bill? It is because they don't want President Obama to succeed. They themselves have said it.


Yes, they have said that, NJG, and continue to say it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Jane told me I need a hearing aid and glasses, but I think you need them.


No I don't . I have common sense.Amen.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Ed Schultz had his own radio show in ND before he went national. An honest and fair man....


I love Ed. He is a hard working man and a real crusader for the middle class.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Bill Maher is a comedian and is not telling the news. I love Ed Schultz as he works for the middle class and if he gets something wrong, he apologizes and corrects it. Fox never does that. They keep repeating it. As far as Rush, I think he is a despicable person.


Maher is talking about the news on his show where he makes all kinds of smart alec comments about people in the news. He gets away with it because he is labelled a comedian. Ed Schultz has made comments about conservative women. So what that he apologized, they should have never been said on air. I don't watch everyone on Fox, but have heard O'Reilly and Megyn Kelly admit and apologize for being wrong. I wouldn't give Rush Limbaugh the time of day. Things have been said on both sides, things have also been made up by both sides leaving neither side innocent.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What repercussions will there be for Obama since he has disobeyed the law on a number of occasions? How many groups of people, businesses, etc., have received waivers and postponements from Obama on the ACA? He had no legal right to change the law without Congressional approval. How many appointments did Obama make while Congress was still in session? By law he couldn't do that either. If I can't disobey the law, neither can The President of the United States. In that respect, we are equal, so I will belly ache and even whine about it all I want. He is one that took an oath to uphold the laws of the land.


Me too!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Joeysoma said"For a good part of 7 years I worked as many as 4 part time jobs to make at the most $17,000 a year. The slightly above minimum job I had, became a minimum wage job when the minimum wage went up. The extra the owner had to pay new employees, was in place of any raise his deserving loyal employees should have gotten. Many discontented workers.

At that time I was the basic breadwinner in the family. If I did not work, we did not eat. If I can do that in my 50's. I do not see why 20's and 30's are not able to do it."

Some younger workers deceive themselves in believing that they automatically deserve MUCH higher wages regardless of their education, experience, intelligence, or reliability, and thus will not accept any job that they deem beneath them. It is the mature worker who is often more willing to make sacrifices of all kinds to provide for herself and her family.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Glad someone else noticed that......Quite a few of us have pointed this out many times. I personally don't care what ethnicity someone is. It's the individual themselves that makes the diff. I'm a white, German from Russia. But that doesn't define me as a person. My SIL to be, is part NA. I don't define him by that. I define him by the fact he's a great guy who loves my DD and is a hard worker. He's in his second year as an apprentice electrician. He's union, so he gets paid for his on the job training. And gets paid very well. I saw that Janeway said her BIL(?) was an apprentice electrician and was working at McDonald's to make ends meet. Good for him. We all do what we have to do to get ahead in life. But shouldn't be held down because we believe our ethnicity is to blame... JMO


BrattyPatty said:


> Oh bull feathers! This is just what Janeway wants. Someone to say, "Oh, Jane, you poor thing." Janeway invites all of the negative remarks she receives.
> Nobody cares about her ethnicity. SHE is the one who brings it up all of the time and is constantly calling the rest of the thread racist.
> Get over it and move on!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree!


momeee said:


> Joeysoma said"For a good part of 7 years I worked as many as 4 part time jobs to make at the most $17,000 a year. The slightly above minimum job I had, became a minimum wage job when the minimum wage went up. The extra the owner had to pay new employees, was in place of any raise his deserving loyal employees should have gotten. Many discontented workers.
> 
> At that time I was the basic breadwinner in the family. If I did not work, we did not eat. If I can do that in my 50's. I do not see why 20's and 30's are not able to do it."
> 
> Some younger workers deceive themselves in believing that they automatically deserve MUCH higher wages regardless of their education, experience, intelligence, or reliability, and thus will not accept any job that they deem beneath them. It is the mature worker who is often more willing to make sacrifices of all kinds to provide for herself and her family.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> And how do you know that there aren't a lot of people out there doing just that. Republicans just continue to put everyone in their little box and say they are all the same. Why do you do that? You evidently don't know real people that are struggling, it is just "those people."


According you Democrats, everyone that is receiving government assistance is fully warranted in doing so. Everyone is in the same financial position, everyone can't take care of themselves, let alone their families, everyone is entitled. Talk about putting everyone into their little box. Why do you do that?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You can't have it both ways.....If one side does or says something wrong, they should apologize, if the other side does the same, they should apologize. No favoritism on either side..... and no excuses.


soloweygirl said:


> Maher is talking about the news on his show where he makes all kinds of smart alec comments about people in the news. He gets away with it because he is labelled a comedian. Ed Schultz has made comments about conservative women. So what that he apologized, they should have never been said on air. I don't watch everyone on Fox, but have heard O'Reilly and Megyn Kelly admit and apologize for being wrong. I wouldn't give Rush Limbaugh the time of day. Things have been said on both sides, things have also been made up by both sides leaving neither side innocent.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Great so not only do I lose my Religious Freedom I can also lose my doctor too.
> 
> I have no other choices that are within a comparable driving distance. Or would you prefer that I create a larger Carbon Imprint?
> 
> ...


What religious freedom did you lose?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I love Ed. He is a hard working man and a real crusader for the middle class.


 :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You can't have it both ways.....If one side does or says something wrong, they should apologize, if the other side does the same, they should apologize. No favoritism on either side..... and no excuses.


Oh please, St. O'Reilly has never slurred women? He does it all the time. Rush Limbaugh is still on the air. He slurs women constantly! They are both on the air. What's your point? They are op-ed shows. 
Has anyone made Jay Leno apologize for his political comments?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Then why won't the republicans work on a jobs bill? It is because they don't want President Obama to succeed. They themselves have said it.


Congress needs to work with businesses, not against them. They need to cut the regulations and mandates against businesses, that have them stagnating. They need to give businesses the ability to grow and prosper, which in turn will allow them to hire. Right now business is being strangled.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too!


If congress does not do what they are paid to do, he can issue executive orders to get things done. People are giving this congress too much credit for nothing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Congress needs to work with businesses, not against them. They need to cut the regulations and mandates against businesses, that have them stagnating. They need to give businesses the ability to grow and prosper, which in turn will allow them to hire. Right now business is being strangled.


Yes, they are. And so is the jobs bill. They cry we need jobs but are blocking any bills for jobs from reaching the floor.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You do know that Bill Maher is a satirist and a comedien, don't you, solowey?


You do know that he has said some awful things about conservative women, don't you, Bratty? When I mentioned his name, I wasn't saying he was a news commentator, just that he has said unacceptable things about women. I would think you would object to that, no matter what you think about his comic abilities.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> You can't have it both ways.....If one side does or says something wrong, they should apologize, if the other side does the same, they should apologize. No favoritism on either side..... and no excuses.


I can't have what both ways?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I would like to mention that my Mom was a waitress all her working life, which added up to 40 yrs. And she counted a lot on the tips she was given to help make ends meet....then came the time when the government started to tax their tips. They decided what they believed a waiter or waitress would make, and taxed that amount. It didn't matter what you really made, you were to pay taxes on that amount, even if you only got $1.00 that day......They just weren't going to let the little people get ahead, or miss the opportunity to tax a few extra coins from the minimum wage worker.
(Found online: - Persons are supposed to report to their employers how much they have received. If less than a certain amount is reported, then their W-2's list "allocated tips", which are calculated at a certain percentage.)



MaidInBedlam said:


> tThe federal minimum wage doesn't seem to be a living wage. Full-time employment equals about 22 days or 173 hours per month. If you are paid $7.25 and hour for 173 hours, you'd have a gross income pf $1,254.25 a month. Withholding amounts to about 22% for that gross income. After all your deductions, you'd get a net income of around $978 a month.
> 
> I can't think of any place in the US where an individual could live on $978 a month. Minimum wage rates in states that set their own minimum wages range from $5.15 in Georgia to $9.19 in Washington. This translates to a net monthly income of $695 to $1240. That's just for a single person. (The information about minimum wages comes from the DOL's Wage and Hours Division.)
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Let me explain.....You can't defend what some persons do, but condemn others who do the same thing. If one side is say, guilty of theft, and the other side has done the same thing....they are both guilty.....with no excuses made for either. In other words.....no double standard.....


soloweygirl said:


> I can't have what both ways?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What religious freedom did you lose?


Since that question was almost 3 weeks ago, if you went back far to find it, you should have been able to read my answer. Sad that you weren't able to find the answer






This is a very informational cartoon. Bet the Obamacultists won't watch it. Hard for them to accept reality


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> According you Democrats, everyone that is receiving government assistance is fully warranted in doing so. Everyone is in the same financial position, everyone can't take care of themselves, let alone their families, everyone is entitled. Talk about putting everyone into their little box. Why do you do that?


I have said many times that everyone has their own story and can not be grouped all together and painted with the same brush. I have never said "everyone is in the same financial position, everyone can't take care of themselves, let alone their families, everyone is entitled." Do not believe that and have never said it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's pretty scary when someone has to count on tips to make enough money to support a family, not to mention the fact that there are no tips if you work in a fast food joint. I did a stint at being a short order cook, and got no tips because I didn't come into contact with customers in the way waitresses did. I was paid 25 cents an hour more than the waitresses, as if that would make up for the no tips deal.

I was shocked when the IRS came up with the idea of taxing tips. As you say, there isn't a fixed amount of tips a person will definetly get. And anyway, a tip has nothing to do with what an employer thinks a job is worth paying. Tips come from people who are rewarding someone for how they did their job and should be completely outside of taxable income.

It looks like the question about what a living wage is hasn't been answered yet.


Nussa said:


> I would like to mention that my Mom was a waitress all her working life, which added up to 40 yrs. And she counted a lot on the tips she was given to help make ends meet....then came the time when the government started to tax their tips. They decided what they believed a waiter or waitress would make, and taxed that amount. It didn't matter what you really made, you were to pay taxes on that amount, even if you only got $1.00 that day......They just weren't going to let the little people get ahead, or miss the opportunity to tax a few extra coins from the minimum wage worker.
> (Found online: - Persons are supposed to report to their employers how much they have received. If less than a certain amount is reported, then their W-2's list "allocated tips", which are calculated at a certain percentage.)


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I consider this as a challenge to an argument from you.....Which definitely puts the word ATTACK you have been using against others back in your court.

So you in all your wisdom, are equating the ACA too weather or not the government will allow you have your coffee black or with cream???? REALLY?? Is that the best you can do? Oh, how the lowly have fallen lower......Tisk-tisk-tisk....


lovethelake said:


> Since that question was almost 3 weeks ago, if you went back far to find it, you should have been able to read my answer. Sad that you weren't able to find the answer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It's pretty scary when someone has to count on tips to make enough money to support a family, not to mention the fact that there are no tips if you work in a fast food joint. I did a stint at being a short order cook, and got no tips because I didn't come into contact with customers in the way waitresses did. I was paid 25 cents an hour more than the waitresses, as if that would make up for the no tips deal.
> 
> I was shocked when the IRS came up with the idea of taxing tips. As you say, there isn't a fixed amount of tips a person will definetly get. And anyway, a tip has nothing to do with what an employer thinks a job is worth paying. Tips come from people who are rewarding someone for how they did their job and should be completely outside of taxable income.
> 
> It looks like the question about what a living wage is hasn't been answered yet.


 :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Let me explain.....You can't defend what some persons do, but condemn others who do the same thing. If one side is say, guilty of theft, and the other side has done the same thing....they are both guilty.....with no excuses made for either. In other words.....no double standard.....


That's what I said in my post. They both sides said things and both made things up. Neither side is innocent.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You do know that he has said some awful things about conservative women, don't you, Bratty? When I mentioned his name, I wasn't saying he was a news commentator, just that he has said unacceptable things about women. I would think you would object to that, no matter what you think about his comic abilities.


Bill Maher is a terrible sexist, and I truly hate that about him. I think he's brilliant otherwise, but his sexism really wears me down.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes, that's what you said....neither side is innocent. I don't believe everything is just made up.....there's a very likely chance that a good deal on both sides is true. And it doesn't do any good for either side to continue to find fault in what the other believes. It's futile really. 
I really don't know why any of us have to have such strong disagreements with each other. We can't change anything right now. We will all have to wait it out, and hope for the best. If it fails it fails. If it works, then great, it will help a lot of people. 
What worries me most is that our government has taken it upon themselves to separate the parties. It isn't the Democrats against the Republicans. There are individuals on both sides causing the problems. I personally just feel the Republican's have made the greatest effort to separate the peoples of this Great Country. And the old saying of "United we stand, divided we fall," rings true now, more than ever. If we divide our country, we may fall victim to another Country while we are fighting amongst ourselves. We all need to get it together....


soloweygirl said:


> That's what I said in my post. They both sides said things and both made things up. Neither side is innocent.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Yes, that's what you said....neither side is innocent. I don't believe everything is just made up.....there's a very likely chance that a good deal on both sides is true. And it doesn't do any good for either side to continue to find fault in what the other believes. It's futile really.
> I really don't know why any of us have to have such strong disagreements with each other. We can't change anything right now. We will all have to wait it out, and hope for the best. If it fails it fails. If it works, then great, it will help a lot of people.
> What worries me most is that our government has taken it upon themselves to separate the parties. It isn't the Democrats against the Republicans. There are individuals on both sides causing the problems. I personally just feel the Republican's have made the greatest effort to separate the peoples of this Great Country. And the old saying of "United we stand, divided we fall," rings true now, more than ever. If we divide our country, we may fall victim to another Country while we are fighting amongst ourselves. We all need to get it together....


You know, you're perfectly right to believe whatever you want, but this is false equivalency to the max. The media is guilty of it, the Republicans are guilty of it, and too many Democrats are guilty of it.

There is NOT an equal amount of rancor on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of lies and deceit on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of malfeasance and corruption on both sides; etc. Overwhelmingly, the Republicans bear the brunt of blame for everything you and I -- and others -- find most objectionable about Washington and our government. (Well, except for the Obama-haters who are a delusional breed unto themselves.)

And it serves Republicans mos of all when the media pipes up and says, "Well, both sides do it...." (I can hear that lyin' tool David Gregory's voice ringing in my head whenever I think those words), or people like you and me parrot that lie or even believe it just a little, even for a minute, because it makes everyone "at fault" and to blame and thus no one. Further, it casts a pall of inevitability, and if "nothing can be done," then why bother? which gives Republicans permission to go on their merry obstructionist, lyin' way.

Think about it.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Again, I could care less what you think of me as you only know how to slam me as your "friends" on this thread continue to do concerning my race. Again I'm reporting you as I have others because you are slamming me because of my race.
> 
> Where are your manners? I'm not going to say anything more because you will only make horrible remarks & slam me.
> 
> Knit something & leave me alone!


I was going to let this go because it's such misguided tripe -- and who cares anyway? But then I realized I didn't want you to think your diatribe hit its mark in any way, and because I really ought not allow people to slander me in this way.

Janeway, here are my exact words, and there's not a slam among them. Not one:



> Your Quote:
> My dad left me several shares of WM stock.....
> 
> Hmmm, don't you claim a Native American heritage? How does that work exactly, because our First Americans aren't really known for their buy in and support of capitalism. Was your father Native American? Your mother? What kind of work did he or they do? I'm really curious.


I am quite clear that Native Americans have had and most still do an incredibly underprivileged and oppressed environment to grow up in -- AND, again, whether (as another poster claimed) they tend to be Republican or Democrat (which isn't the issue) or NEITHER, it's not my understanding that they're such great supporters or participants in capitalism.

My questions were respectful (if somewhat nosy -- but then you opened that particular topic of conversation yourself with your claim of independent wealth thanks to a few Wal-Mart stocks your father left you).

Not only that, but there's the credibility issue. Others have expressed skepticism over the claims by some here of their Native American heritage (and I frankly don't remember if you were among those questioned or not and I've frankly tried NOT to pay that much attention to a discussion I found pretty distasteful, for the most part). But given the fact of that conversion, I would have thought you (and others) would be happy to provide minimal details supporting your claim -- a claim I have to confess I'm now wondering about myself, but only because of YOUR behavior about it.

So you go ahead and report me, claiming racial slurs that exist only in your imagination.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm sorry you so heartily disagree with what I had to say. I was just trying to be diplomatic about the whole thing. Trying to rise above all the rancor. I also said I felt the Republicans boar the greatest responsibility for the discord in this country. I certainly wasn't giving any particular party a, get our of jail free card. But my hope was that when all was said an done, everything would work out. If we all start acting like some of those in government.....this country is doomed.



Knitry said:


> You know, you're perfectly right to believe whatever you want, but this is false equivalency to the max. The media is guilty of it, the Republicans are guilty of it, and too many Democrats are guilty of it.
> 
> There is NOT an equal amount of rancor on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of lies and deceit on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of malfeasance and corruption on both sides; etc. Overwhelmingly, the Republicans bear the brunt of blame for everything you and I -- and others -- find most objectionable about Washington and our government. (Well, except for the Obama-haters who are a delusional breed unto themselves.)
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe this is why President Obama would veto it :

Nearly 300 Pipeline Spills In North Dakota Have Gone Unreported To The Public Since January 2012. READ IT!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/pipeline-spills-north-dakota_n_4170133.html



joeysomma said:


> If you really want a jobs bill: Complete the permits for the oil pipeline, so the construction can start immediately. Grant permits for drilling on the Atlantic and Pacific Coasts and the Gulf of Mexico. Open up federal lands for oil and gas exploration. Reopen the coal mines in West Virginia. Work with the lead smelting plant so then it is able to remain open. Reduce many of rules and regulations that small business have to adhere to before they can start their business.
> 
> Obama would veto it. He does not want jobs, he wants control.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you really want a jobs bill: Complete the permits for the oil pipeline, so the construction can start immediately. Grant permits for drilling on the Atlantic and Pacific Coasts and the Gulf of Mexico. Open up federal lands for oil and gas exploration. Reopen the coal mines in West Virginia. Work with the lead smelting plant so then it is able to remain open. Reduce many of rules and regulations that small business have to adhere to before they can start their business.
> 
> Obama would veto it. He does not want jobs, he wants control.


President Obama wants to save the land. Do you really think if the oil pipeline is allowed to go through that we won't have oil leaking in all our ground water. Do you want to be able to light a fire when you turn on your faucet. Big oil has proven time and time again that they do not follow through on the safety rules we have and I am sure you want less rules for them as it is. You read all the times how after these oil spill they have know about cracked pipes etc, but didn't do anything about it. You thing drilling for oil everywhere is going to be good for jobs but what will it do to our environment? 
Did you hear about China on the news. Shanghai has so much smog the children have to stay inside and people have to wear a mask when they go outside. The harmful particles reached 602.5 micrograms per cubic metre on Friday afternoon, an extremely hazardous level that was the highest since the city began recording such data last December. That compares with the World Health Organization's safety guideline of 25 micrograms. That is what happens with no regulation. That is where we would be without regulations. You can complain all you want about it, but we all know if the big corporations do not have regulations, they do only what is best for their pocket and to hell with the country. They have proven that over and over.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Maybe this is why President Obama would veto it :
> 
> Nearly 300 Pipeline Spills In North Dakota Have Gone Unreported To The Public Since January 2012. READ IT!
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/pipeline-spills-north-dakota_n_4170133.html


Yes, read it Joey and if you were really interested, you can read stories like that all day, one after the other, besides the fact that they do not know how to clean up tar sands oil.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I have asked Jane before how she feels about regulations in place to protect our land, but she won't answer. She has posted pictures several times about NA wanting to protect the land. I would think republican policies go against the ideas of the NA.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Nussa and NJG rather than complaining about my suggestions, what are your ideas?
> 
> You must have some great ideas other than raising minimum wage. Those jobs are already there. What new jobs will you create?


I won't create any myself, but the president and the democrats have a jobs bill that the republicans won't even talk about. That would be a good place to start. Raising the minimum wage would bring a lot of money into the economy. All you worry about is the poor corporations loosing money. The CEO might have to take a $1 million bonus instead of 2 but they will survive.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Joey you say drilling on the Atlantis, Pacific and Gulf of Mexico and on federal lands. Are you really ok with destroying all this land, cause that is what will happen? Wasn't the Gulf oil spill enough for you? Why do you want more of that, cause that is exactly what would happen. They knew the Gulf spill was going to happen and big oil did nothing to stop it. What is wrong with you?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am more concerned about PEOPLE LIVING. What good is all the pristine federal land if there is no food for people to eat?
> 
> They made a much bigger deal about the Gulf than was necessary. BP was fined much, much more than the law allowed. Obama broke the law again.
> 
> I will buy no gas other then BP unless there is none when I need gas.


You side with BP over the Gulf Oil spill!!!! I am just sitting here shaking my head. 11 people lost their lives and the jobs lost on the Gulf cost, and the wild life killed and the damage done to the marine life, and you side with BP, amazing, just amazing. I don't understand that kind of attitude especially when you have grand children. I want to save the planet for my grand children. There are no words for you.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The American Jobs Act
President Obamas Plan to Create Jobs Now
1. TAX CUTS TO HELP AMERICAS SMALL BUSINESSES HIRE AND GROW

Cutting the payroll tax cut in half for 98 percent of businesses:
The Presidents plan will cut in half
the taxes paid by businesses on their first $5 million in payroll, targeting the benefit to the 98
percent of firms that have payroll below this threshold.

A complete payroll tax holiday for added workers or increased wages:
The Presidents plan will
completely eliminate payroll taxes for firms that increase their payroll by adding new workers or
increasing the wages of their current worker (the benefit is capped at the first $50 million in
payroll increases).

Extending 100% expensing into 2012:
This continues an effective incentive for new investment.

Reforms and regulatory reductions to help entrepreneurs and small businesses access capital.
2. PUTTING WORKERS BACK ON THE JOB WHILE REBUILDING AND MODERNIZING AMERICA

A Returning Heroes hiring tax credit for veterans:
This provides tax credits from $5,600 to
$9,600 to encourage the hiring of unemployed veterans.

Preventing up to 280,000 teacher layoffs, while keeping cops and firefighters on the job.

Modernizing at least 35,000 public schools across the country, supporting new science labs, Internet-
ready classrooms and renovations at schools across the country, in rural and urban areas.

Immediate investments in infrastructure and a bipartisan National Infrastructure Bank
,
modernizing our roads, rail, airports and waterways while putting hundreds of thousands of workers
back on the job.

A New Project Rebuild
, which will put people to work rehabilitating homes, businesses and
communities, leveraging private capital and scaling land banks and other public-private
collaborations.

Expanding access to high-speed wireless
as part of a plan for freeing up the nations spectrum.
3. PATHWAYS BACK TO WORK FOR AMERICANS LOOKING FOR JOBS

The most innovative reform to the unemployment insurance program in 40 years:
As part of an
extension of unemployment insurance to prevent 5 million Americans looking for work from losing
their benefits, the Presidents plan includes innovative work-based reforms to prevent layoffs and give
states greater flexibility to use UI funds to best support job-seekers, including:

Work-Sharing: UI for workers whose employers choose work-sharing over layoffs.

A new Bridge to Work program: The plan builds on and improves innovative state programs
where those displaced take temporary, voluntary work or pursue on-the-job training.
LEARN MORE AT WWW.WHITEHOUSE.GOV


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

President Obama is right about the oil......but the problem is......they've left the fox (Oil Companies) in charge of the hen house. I don't want my state covered in oil. It's true...once it's been covered in oil, it's useless. Nothing will grow. That's what we do here in ND. We grow food for the whole world.
Jobs??? You can't swing a dead cat in the western part of the state of ND without hitting a help wanted sign. Some even give sign on bonuses of $1,000 or better. But you have no idea how much it costs to live in this area. Houses that cost $45,000 about 7 years ago, are now going for $200,000, or better. If you didn't have a house or property here before the boom, you probably had to leave. We have lost many of our long time, many generation, residents to other parts of the state, and other states. Yes, people out on the oil rigs are making well over $100,000 a year. But with them came the drug dealers, murders, & prostitution. This type of thing has migrated way into the middle of the state. 
I, and a huge number of people in this state were perfectly happy with the way it was before the oil boom. The only ones who have profited from this oil, are those who still had mineral rights to any of the land with oil under it, the oil companies, and our state government.....Our state is a Republican state, in case someone wants to know. Our state is known to have an excess budget nearing $2 billion dollars. But I'm here to tell you, they have not used it on the schools, or roads or any of the other places it's needed. But by golly they are building on our tax money like we print it in our basements. 
So joeysomma, I can't help you with the minimum wage problem, or the fact that so many people don't have jobs. We have just the opposite problem in my state. To many jobs not enough workers. But it's a catch 22. You can't come here to work unless you already have plenty of money, because it takes money to live here so you can go and get a job. 
The government allows big companies to outsource jobs. So there go millions of American's jobs. There are now to many people and not enough jobs. Who can fix that? Where do you start? Yelling at the President or either of the parties isn't going to change that. It's like I have said before. The government has to learn to work together and start working for OUR COUNTRY not send our jobs to other countries. Personally I don't have the skill or knowledge to do that. And like I said, those who are sitting here putting each side down isn't doing it either. If someone has an answer to this problem, A serious answer, not something snide and useless, I'm sure we'd all love to know about it. 


joeysomma said:


> But Obama is first to brag about all the oil that has been produced on the state and private land, as if he is the one responsible for it.
> 
> Untrained workers are making up to $100,000. That is a living wage. Those who are unemployed need to go where the work is, rather than sitting on their fannies and complaining.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> President Obama wants to save the land. Do you really think if the oil pipeline is allowed to go through that we won't have oil leaking in all our ground water. Do you want to be able to light a fire when you turn on your faucet. Big oil has proven time and time again that they do not follow through on the safety rules we have and I am sure you want less rules for them as it is. You read all the times how after these oil spill they have know about cracked pipes etc, but didn't do anything about it. You thing drilling for oil everywhere is going to be good for jobs but what will it do to our environment?
> Did you hear about China on the news. Shanghai has so much smog the children have to stay inside and people have to wear a mask when they go outside. The harmful particles reached 602.5 micrograms per cubic metre on Friday afternoon, an extremely hazardous level that was the highest since the city began recording such data last December. That compares with the World Health Organization's safety guideline of 25 micrograms. That is what happens with no regulation. That is where we would be without regulations. You can complain all you want about it, but we all know if the big corporations do not have regulations, they do only what is best for their pocket and to hell with the country. They have proven that over and over.


It's shocking, isn't it? This is what you get without all those "pesky" government regulations the GOP is trying so hard to abolish.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

McDonald's gave a $9 million dollar raise recently to their new CEO. $9 million dollars that didn't "Trickle Down", $9 million dollars that didn't help workers at McDonald's unless they have a second, better paying job as a waiter at the nicer restaurants the CEO of McDonald's goes to. McDonald's can't afford paying their workers enough to climb out of poverty but just happened to find $9 million lying around to give to their CEO. The golden arches are actually golden parachutes too.

Over the last few decades the CEO's of corporate America have made themselves filthy rich by paying themselves instead of labor. The boss gets a raise, you don't. You are lucky just to keep your job. Any profit made goes straight to the wealthiest 1% and stays there.

And if you complain they call you a socialist.

Over the last 40 years this has been the trend. Worker's wages stagnate but for some reason CEO salaries go through the roof. The result is growing poverty. No one who works full time should be poor. No one.

So how does this trickle down economics work when one person gets a 9 million dollar raise? Is there still suppose to be some left to trickle down?

McDonald's Corp. more than tripled the pay packages last year for its new CEO Don Thompson and the man he replaced, Jim Skinner.

~snip~

McDonald's, based in Oak Brook, Ill., gave Thompson a package worth $13.8 million, up from the $4.1 million he received in 2011, according to a regulatory filing made Friday.

Skinner's pay meanwhile rose to $27.7 million from $8.8 million the year before, reflecting a $10.2 million payment as part of his retirement under his contract agreement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

When your employees make 7.25 an hour and you take home millions, do you feel a little bit guilty. I would, but they obviously don't. How do you wrap you head around that?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I hope they start trying a little harder, cuz whatever they're doing now isn't working. At least not in my state.


susanmos2000 said:


> It's shocking, isn't it? This is what you get without all those "pesky" government regulations the GOP is trying so hard to abolish.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:
"They made a much bigger deal about the Gulf than was necessary. BP was fined much, much more than the law allowed. Obama broke the law again.

I will buy no gas other then BP unless there is none when I need gas."

Perhaps one of the most outrageous statements I have ever seen on this thread. The devastation to the Gulf Coast area in the terms of economics was beyond massive, not to mention marine life, wild life and life in general. To make a statement like this is beyond ignorant.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No wonder the Republicans will not bring this up for a vote, nothing but problems. Many have been tried and did not work. My view is in bold.
> 
> The best jobs bill would be to get out of the way of the private sector.


Joey as smart as you claim to be, why aren't you president?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm sure anyone of you that think I'm ignorant wouldn't think twice about someone killing a baby.


An abortion or kill a child by having their drinking water contaminated by big oil or have them walking around on soil that has oil seeping around underneath them. You think that is healthy to breath that in all the time? Who is killing the babies? What is the difference? You don't have all the answers and you are not near as smart as you think you are.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh joeysomma.......Get over yourself. I've finally figured you out......I can't believe it took me so long....I guess it's because I like to think most people have some good in them. But look at the things you've just posted. You're all over the map. You just like to start arguments don't you? You don't care about what, or with whom. You don't care anymore about babies, or government, or oil companies or whether or not people have jobs, or anything other than starting a fight... And those poor ignorant friends of yours who don't realize it. And by the looks of them, even if you told them what you are, they wouldn't believe it. They are followers, and will follow whatever crazy thing you say or do. But then they're adults, they'll just have to learn to take care of themselves. 
You are nothing but a a narcissistic fraud......So you go ahead and run your mouth......You don't have the brains God gave a gnat, and you definitely don't have a soul. God have mercy on what little he might find!



joeysomma said:


> I'm sure anyone of you that think I'm ignorant wouldn't think twice about someone killing a baby.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Are you ready to stop this tit for tat? We could go on forever. Basically all were doing is saying is, "I know you are, but what am I????" It's stupid, futile, useless. Let's just say I know your true colors, you say you know mine and we'll leave it at that.
> I know when to stop beating the dead horse....


Here is the proof:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh joeysomma.......Get over yourself. I've finally figured you out......I can't believe it took me so long....I guess it's because I like to think most people have some good in them. But look at the things you've just posted. You're all over the map. You just like to start arguments don't you? You don't care about what, or with whom. You don't care anymore about babies, or government, or oil companies or whether or not people have jobs, or anything other than starting a fight... And those poor ignorant friends of yours who don't realize it. And by the looks of them, even if you told them what you are, they wouldn't believe it. They are followers, and will follow whatever crazy thing you say or do. But then they're adults, they'll just have to learn to take care of themselves.
> You are nothing but a a narcissistic fraud......So you go ahead and run your mouth......You don't have the brains God gave a gnat, and you definitely don't have a soul. God have mercy on what little he might find!


Well, my dear, you sure run your lies again & again so many times you actually believe them! Shame on you for judging Joey!

This is what Obo supporters are!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Joey as smart as you claim to be, why aren't you president?


Joey, Joey, Joey for President!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh bull feathers! This is just what Janeway wants. Someone to say, "Oh, Jane, you poor thing." Janeway invites all of the negative remarks she receives.
> Nobody cares about her ethnicity. SHE is the one who brings it up all of the time and is constantly calling the rest of the thread racist.
> Get over it and move on!


Bratty, your name fits!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> tThe federal minimum wage doesn't seem to be a living wage. Full-time employment equals about 22 days or 173 hours per month. If you are paid $7.25 and hour for 173 hours, you'd have a gross income pf $1,254.25 a month. Withholding amounts to about 22% for that gross income. After all your deductions, you'd get a net income of around $978 a month.
> 
> I can't think of any place in the US where an individual could live on $978 a month. Minimum wage rates in states that set their own minimum wages range from $5.15 in Georgia to $9.19 in Washington. This translates to a net monthly income of $695 to $1240. That's just for a single person. (The information about minimum wages comes from the DOL's Wage and Hours Division.)
> 
> ...


Oh, please, you lived in Seattle--more lies!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I am quite clear that Native Americans have had and most still do an incredibly underprivileged and oppressed environment to grow up in -- AND, again, whether (as another poster claimed) they tend to be Republican or Democrat (which isn't the issue) or NEITHER, it's not my understanding that they're such great supporters or participants in capitalism.
> 
> My questions were respectful (if somewhat nosy -- but then you opened that particular topic of conversation yourself with your claim of independent wealth thanks to a few Wal-Mart stocks your father left you).
> 
> ...


I don't care if you or anyone believes my nationality because I think all of you are jealous of the fact that I'm the true American & the rest of you are all foreigners! This land is my land as we were here first & those who arrived by boats took it away from us.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Joey, Joey, Joey for President!


I'm voting for Joey!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I'm sure anyone of you that think I'm ignorant wouldn't think twice about someone killing a baby.


WTH does that have to do with BP and the Gulf Coast????


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> WTH does that have to do with BP and the Gulf Coast????


Nothing--just another pitiful rightie attempt to change the subject. I think it's good that Joey's made her support of BP so crystal clear--they'll need thousands like her to swab the oil off the wildlife the next time one of their pipes springs a leak.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _Wouldnt it be great if we could just keep from calling each other horrible names and argue about the issues before us? I guess that may be too much to ask._
> 
> Read more at http://eaglerising.com/3385/sarah-palin-responds-martin-bashir/#33E9behSdTmkpZRi.99


Joey, we are wasting our words as the Lefties won't ever get the true facts as their heads are stuck in the sand.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Oh, please, you lived in Seattle--more lies!


The operative word here is *"lived"*. That means I lived in Seattle *in the PAST*. 
*I don't live there NOW, as I have said many times.*


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> 9 Charts That Prove Barack Obama's War on Income Inequality is Futile and Destructive
> 
> http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/99757-9-charts-prove-barack-obamas-war-income-inequality-futile-destructive/?utm_source=EmailElect&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Subscriber%238351&utm_campaign=12-6-2013%20IJ%20Review


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Anyone hear about this? Hilarious!


Satanists seek spot on Oklahoma Statehouse steps
Associated Press By SEAN MURPHY


OKLAHOMA CITY (AP)  In their zeal to tout their faith in the public square, conservatives in Oklahoma may have unwittingly opened the door to a wide range of religious groups, including satanists who are seeking to put their own statue next to a Ten Commandments monument on the Statehouse steps.

The Republican-controlled Legislature in this state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt authorized the privately funded Ten Commandments monument in 2009, and it was placed on the Capitol grounds last year despite criticism from legal experts who questioned its constitutionality. The Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit seeking its removal.

But the New York-based Satanic Temple saw an opportunity. It notified the state's Capitol Preservation Commission that it wants to donate a monument and plans to submit one of several possible designs this month, said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the temple.

"We believe that all monuments should be in good taste and consistent with community standards," Greaves wrote in letter to state officials. "Our proposed monument, as an homage to the historic/literary Satan, will certainly abide by these guidelines."

Greaves said one potential design involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children. He said he expects the monument, if approved by Oklahoma officials, would cost about $20,000.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Hilarious? I guess you would enjoy satan's side. We will see one day how funny you think he is.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Like I said......Tit for Tat.....

Have a nice Sunday....


Janeway said:


> Here is the proof:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm sorry that the truth hurts. But that's just what she is......you'll just have to find that out for yourself....

Have a nice Sunday!


Janeway said:


> Well, my dear, you sure run your lies again & again so many times you actually believe them! Shame on you for judging Joey!
> 
> This is what Obo supporters are!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Hilarious? I guess you would enjoy satan's side. We will see one day how funny you think he is.


Sorry, toots--freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, toots--freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.


Well by all means laugh your head off.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Don't bother me with your problems.....go make up some joeysomma for president posters.....



Janeway said:


> Well, my dear, you sure run your lies again & again so many times you actually believe them! Shame on you for judging Joey!
> 
> This is what Obo supporters are!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> These are specialists. They should be making more than a GP. Like I said before, What is your life worth or that of your family? If your child was injured in a shark attack? Would you go to a GP to have the severed nerves connected?
> 
> Any doctor really holds life in his hands. What is life worth?


So you think we should pay whatever the doctor thinks he is worth? Way to make the doctors ever more rich and patients poor.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, p-l-e-a-s-e! You must need a hearing aid & glasses!


Do you ever listen to Rush? or Fox news? Have you ever fact checked them? do you even care to find out the actual truth or do you just accept what they say? Do you only assume that progressives are liars and never seek facts? Do you ever use critical thinking skills?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Economically speaking, a job at any fast food restaurant was "never" meant as a permanent full-time job to support a family!
> 
> These jobs are for students who want to work until they finish their education or trade school.
> 
> My daughters BIL worked at McDonalds while he was in an electrical apprentice school & upon completion, was offered a $40,000 yearly income job! He left McD's for someone to work until they completed their education! The circle is complete.


You are quoting republican talking points. Do you think EVERYONE is capable of improving there lot in life? Not everyone has the ability for upward mobility. Intellectually speaking not every one is capable of higher learning,


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't know what you are talking about!


Do you thinks republicans don't lie?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> ACA is worth nothing either because no one can get on the website


People are getting on the website.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It needs to be extended because all that has happened job wise under this administration is a complete surge of part time jobs. We have become a part time nation. Part time wages will never equal a living wage.


Part time employment has been happening for many years, not just under this administration. Corporations have figured this out all on their own. Less employees, less benefits, more profit.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I don't care if you or anyone believes my nationality because I think all of you are jealous of the fact that I'm the true American & the rest of you are all foreigners! This land is my land as we were here first & those who arrived by boats took it away from us.


First let me say I have no reason to doubt that you are Native American. Secondly, your ancestors were also foreigners, having migrated to this land by way of the Bering Straits when it was frozen and could be crossed by foot.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, I consider this as a challenge to an argument from you.....Which definitely puts the word ATTACK you have been using against others back in your court.
> 
> So you in all your wisdom, are equating the ACA too weather or not the government will allow you have your coffee black or with cream???? REALLY?? Is that the best you can do? Oh, how the lowly have fallen lower......Tisk-tisk-tisk....


That is a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you really want a jobs bill: Complete the permits for the oil pipeline, so the construction can start immediately. Grant permits for drilling on the Atlantic and Pacific Coasts and the Gulf of Mexico. Open up federal lands for oil and gas exploration. Reopen the coal mines in West Virginia. Work with the lead smelting plant so then it is able to remain open. Reduce many of rules and regulations that small business have to adhere to before they can start their business.
> 
> Obama would veto it. He does not want jobs, he wants control.


I hope he vetoes the pipeline, no profit for the US, I don't trust pipelines, they get old and break. Why doesn't Canada want the pipeline? Who is actually going to profit from it? No more fossil fuels.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Hilarious? I guess you would enjoy satan's side. We will see one day how funny you think he is.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> First let me say I have no reason to doubt that you are Native American. Secondly, your ancestors were also foreigners, having migrated to this land by way of the Bering Straits when it was frozen and could be crossed by foot.


Don't confuse her with history.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Yes, that's what you said....neither side is innocent. I don't believe everything is just made up.....there's a very likely chance that a good deal on both sides is true. And it doesn't do any good for either side to continue to find fault in what the other believes. It's futile really.
> I really don't know why any of us have to have such strong disagreements with each other. We can't change anything right now. We will all have to wait it out, and hope for the best. If it fails it fails. If it works, then great, it will help a lot of people.
> What worries me most is that our government has taken it upon themselves to separate the parties. It isn't the Democrats against the Republicans. There are individuals on both sides causing the problems. I personally just feel the Republican's have made the greatest effort to separate the peoples of this Great Country. And the old saying of "United we stand, divided we fall," rings true now, more than ever. If we divide our country, we may fall victim to another Country while we are fighting amongst ourselves. We all need to get it together....


Both parties have too many members that are only out for themselves. These "representatives" need to be voted out during the next election and replaced with individuals that have the interest of We the People on their agenda. 2016 should follow with the rest. It's a start to bring the country back together. Good things will follow, I'm sure.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> President Obama wants to save the land. Do you really think if the oil pipeline is allowed to go through that we won't have oil leaking in all our ground water. Do you want to be able to light a fire when you turn on your faucet. Big oil has proven time and time again that they do not follow through on the safety rules we have and I am sure you want less rules for them as it is. You read all the times how after these oil spill they have know about cracked pipes etc, but didn't do anything about it. You thing drilling for oil everywhere is going to be good for jobs but what will it do to our environment?
> Did you hear about China on the news. Shanghai has so much smog the children have to stay inside and people have to wear a mask when they go outside. The harmful particles reached 602.5 micrograms per cubic metre on Friday afternoon, an extremely hazardous level that was the highest since the city began recording such data last December. That compares with the World Health Organization's safety guideline of 25 micrograms. That is what happens with no regulation. That is where we would be without regulations. You can complain all you want about it, but we all know if the big corporations do not have regulations, they do only what is best for their pocket and to hell with the country. They have proven that over and over.


Joey isn't talking about getting rid of all regulations and laws. That is taking what she said out of context. There are so many that are only there to hurt industries, not help the people. I.e many of the new regulations and mandates on the coal industry. Coal is a cheap form of energy. With most of the regulations, the industry has cleaned up its act. No one is saying to get rid of them. This administration's actions towards the industry has done everything it can to destroy the industry. As far as the coal processing plants (or whatever they are called) Obama has said that the regulations won't stop them from building the plants, be will make it cost prohibitive to do so. After the BP oil spill, Obama ordered the drilling stopped for 6 months. The result was the platforms were moved to areas and other countries that allowed drilling. That hurt the economy, especially locally. Was that necessary? I think not. Just because it happened at one platform, certainly did not mean it would happen to any others out there.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> President Obama is right about the oil......but the problem is......they've left the fox (Oil Companies) in charge of the hen house. I don't want my state covered in oil. It's true...once it's been covered in oil, it's useless. Nothing will grow. That's what we do here in ND. We grow food for the whole world.
> Jobs??? You can't swing a dead cat in the western part of the state of ND without hitting a help wanted sign. Some even give sign on bonuses of $1,000 or better. But you have no idea how much it costs to live in this area. Houses that cost $45,000 about 7 years ago, are now going for $200,000, or better. If you didn't have a house or property here before the boom, you probably had to leave. We have lost many of our long time, many generation, residents to other parts of the state, and other states. Yes, people out on the oil rigs are making well over $100,000 a year. But with them came the drug dealers, murders, & prostitution. This type of thing has migrated way into the middle of the state.
> I, and a huge number of people in this state were perfectly happy with the way it was before the oil boom. The only ones who have profited from this oil, are those who still had mineral rights to any of the land with oil under it, the oil companies, and our state government.....Our state is a Republican state, in case someone wants to know. Our state is known to have an excess budget nearing $2 billion dollars. But I'm here to tell you, they have not used it on the schools, or roads or any of the other places it's needed. But by golly they are building on our tax money like we print it in our basements.
> So joeysomma, I can't help you with the minimum wage problem, or the fact that so many people don't have jobs. We have just the opposite problem in my state. To many jobs not enough workers. But it's a catch 22. You can't come here to work unless you already have plenty of money, because it takes money to live here so you can go and get a job.
> The government allows big companies to outsource jobs. So there go millions of American's jobs. There are now to many people and not enough jobs. Who can fix that? Where do you start? Yelling at the President or either of the parties isn't going to change that. It's like I have said before. The government has to learn to work together and start working for OUR COUNTRY not send our jobs to other countries. Personally I don't have the skill or knowledge to do that. And like I said, those who are sitting here putting each side down isn't doing it either. If someone has an answer to this problem, A serious answer, not something snide and useless, I'm sure we'd all love to know about it.


It sounds like you are going through what the areas did during the gold rush. Everyone flocks to areas where there are jobs and that includes the "undesirables".

Any company that outsources should have their goods taxed heavily upon entry into the US. They took their jobs elsewhere because of greed and the price to pay for that should be higher taxes and tariffs for those goods. Hit them in their pockets, that's what they understand. Getting rid of many taxes, regulations and mandates will allow entrepreneurs to do what they do best - create a business and jobs.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> McDonald's gave a $9 million dollar raise recently to their new CEO. $9 million dollars that didn't "Trickle Down", $9 million dollars that didn't help workers at McDonald's unless they have a second, better paying job as a waiter at the nicer restaurants the CEO of McDonald's goes to. McDonald's can't afford paying their workers enough to climb out of poverty but just happened to find $9 million lying around to give to their CEO. The golden arches are actually golden parachutes too.
> 
> Over the last few decades the CEO's of corporate America have made themselves filthy rich by paying themselves instead of labor. The boss gets a raise, you don't. You are lucky just to keep your job. Any profit made goes straight to the wealthiest 1% and stays there.
> 
> ...


Most McDonald's are franchises, very few are owned by the corporate offices. They are considered separate small businesses and operate on a tight budget. They are not connected to the mother ship in the way you present. All of these restaurants cannot afford to pay double the minimum wage and stay in business. I am not in any way condoning the pay of corporate executives, as I find it horrible. I am saying that these restaurants are not receiving the great profits that people think.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> :thumbup: For many the profit margin is 4% or less.


And these franchise owners have no say in what corporate does.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't care if you or anyone believes my nationality because I think all of you are jealous of the fact that I'm the true American & the rest of you are all foreigners! This land is my land as we were here first & those who arrived by boats took it away from us.


Let me ask you again Jane. You claim this land as "your land" and your picture says it is your destiny to protect this sacred land. How do you feel about the BP oil spill, the Mayflower, Arkansas oil spill, the spill in North Dakota that was from a 20 year old pipeline. The pipeline is 35 miles long and they are replacing 200 feet of it but that leaves 184,600 more feet that can spring a leak. How about the Keystone pipeline, and getting rid of regulations to protect the environment? If a fish swims through the oil and then swims out into the ocean and is eaten by a whale, that whale will die.

Sorry Jane, but I was born here and that makes me just as much a true American as you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And these franchise owners have no say in what corporate does.


So what it boils down to is it is still the ceo's, those at the top stuffing their pockets, which is what we have been saying all along. It is too bad that the little guy on the bottom has to go through the franchise owner, but that is their only recourse. It is the ceo's at the top possibly not allowing the franchise owners enough profit to pay a living wage. If all these protests actually have some results, I am sure it is the franchise owners that will have less profit, but those ceo's will still take all they want first, and that's not right. That is where the change needs to happen.

Franchisees of the second-largest fast-food chain in the world say McDonald's corporate is focused way too much on pleasing Wall Street and it's causing their profits to suffer. The franchisees feel the company is charging them way too much to operate their restaurants, citing rising costs for rent, remodeling, training and software.

Now, before you start feeling sorry for McDonald's franchisees, there's something that I need to point out. It revolves around money. Lots of money.

Super-Sized Capital Requirements
Not just anyone can become an owner of a McDonald's restaurant. There are certain "qualifications."

I'm going to focus on one of them as it relates to this article: You need to be a millionaire.

That fact alone disqualifies most of today's prospective franchise owners. In other words, you need to have access to capital; lots of capital. You'll need it before and after you open your franchise.

If you want to buy a brand new McDonald's franchise, you'll need to come up with 40% of the total cost-upfront. But your money can't come from just anywhere. For example, you can't tap into your home equity line of credit or use any other form of borrowed resources to pay for your franchise business. Startup funds need to come from your cash on hand, stocks or bonds  things of that nature. Basically, you'll need around $750,000 of non-borrowed resources to even be considered by the McDonald's franchise development department.

Related: What the Crowdfunding Boom Means for Franchising

In addition to the super-sized upfront investment, McDonald's franchisees pay what are called "ongoing fees" on rent, remodeling and other expenses associated with maintaining their business. Those fees can quickly add up, especially when it comes to rent. That's because rent is based on sales. In the past, McDonald's franchisees have paid around 8.5% of their store sales in rent.

If a single McDonald's franchise does $2 million a year in sales that would mean that the franchisee would be paying corporate $170,000, or $14,166 a month, in rent based on the 8.5 % rate. Then McDonald's adds on a "service fee." That's another 4% of sales  or $80,000 a year  that the franchisee pays out. So, approximately $250,000 is paid out (to corporate) annually by one franchisee doing $2 million a year in sales.

What's the Beef?
Some franchisees are paying more than 8.5% of annual store sales in rent, according to some of the reporting that I've seen. Not only are higher rents hurting their bottom lines, they're also forcing some franchisees to hold up on expensive remodeling programs

Read more: http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/227994#ixzz2muqvbXEz


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes it was.....I think sometimes they just don't see the severity of the way things really are.


rocky1991 said:


> That is a ridiculous comparison.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for the info.......Now I know how it all works... :thumbup:


NJG said:


> So what it boils down to is it is still the ceo's, those at the top stuffing their pockets, which is what we have been saying all along. It is too bad that the little guy on the bottom has to go through the franchise owner, but that is their only recourse. It is the ceo's at the top possibly not allowing the franchise owners enough profit to pay a living wage. If all these protests actually have some results, I am sure it is the franchise owners that will have less profit, but those ceo's will still take all they want first, and that's not right. That is where the change needs to happen.
> 
> Franchisees of the second-largest fast-food chain in the world say McDonald's corporate is focused way too much on pleasing Wall Street and it's causing their profits to suffer. The franchisees feel the company is charging them way too much to operate their restaurants, citing rising costs for rent, remodeling, training and software.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

No, I'm afraid she doesn't. She surrounds herself with negative Republican thinking, and that's about all. I personally don't know how anyone can take ONE side and absolutely not see anything else.....even when they're hit in the face with it. But Like I said before....that's pretty much her MO. If it'll start an argument, she can't wait to post it.


rocky1991 said:


> Do you ever listen to Rush? or Fox news? Have you ever fact checked them? do you even care to find out the actual truth or do you just accept what they say? Do you only assume that progressives are liars and never seek facts? Do you ever use critical thinking skills?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree with that......but I won't pick a side. I will vote for who I feel is the best person for the job. If it's a Republican, I will vote for them, if it's a Democrat or Independent, I will vote for them. The fact that the parties of our country have messed things up so badly is what bothers me. I know I'll get flack from some who believe one side is more responsible for the mess than other, but I'm putting that aside in this post. I want individuals in the government who aren't out to make themselves rich, but want to help the people who live in, and support this country....


soloweygirl said:


> Both parties have too many members that are only out for themselves. These "representatives" need to be voted out during the next election and replaced with individuals that have the interest of We the People on their agenda. 2016 should follow with the rest. It's a start to bring the country back together. Good things will follow, I'm sure.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> First let me say I have no reason to doubt that you are Native American. Secondly, your ancestors were also foreigners, having migrated to this land by way of the Bering Straits when it was frozen and could be crossed by foot.


Prove your words!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Don't confuse her with history.


I know my history but guess you do not know yours!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Let me ask you again Jane. You claim this land as "your land" and your picture says it is your destiny to protect this sacred land. How do you feel about the BP oil spill, the Mayflower, Arkansas oil spill, the spill in North Dakota that was from a 20 year old pipeline. The pipeline is 35 miles long and they are replacing 200 feet of it but that leaves 184,600 more feet that can spring a leak. How about the Keystone pipeline, and getting rid of regulations to protect the environment? If a fish swims through the oil and then swims out into the ocean and is eaten by a whale, that whale will die.
> 
> Sorry Jane, but I was born here and that makes me just as much a true American as you.


What tribe were you born into? Here is the Map of America & where the Indians are from!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I know my history but guess you do not know yours!


That's what bigotry gets. Bigotry in any area is wrong. Let's not forget that the past has passed, the future is unknown, we only have today. Nothing can e done about the slaughtering of those Native Americans, I feel terrible about it, nut I had nothing to do with that. Today, if you are born here, or naturalized you are still an American. So why fight over what cannot be changed?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That's what bigotry gets. Bigotry in any area is wrong. Let's not forget that the past has passed, the future is unknown, we only have today. Nothing can e done about the slaughtering of those Native Americans, I feel terrible about it, nut I had nothing to do with that. Today, if you are born here, or naturalized you are still an American. So why fight over what cannot be changed?


Not nice to call me a bigot! You really don't want to know what I think about you.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> What tribe were you born into? Here is the Map of America & where the Indians are from!


I wasn't born into any tribe, but I am just as much an American as you are. You are afraid to answer my question about taking care of this sacred land. Sounds to me like this land isn't as sacred to you as you want people to believe. If you agree with the republicans about less regulations looks to me like you are a bit of a phony. You vote republican, you vote against your sacred land.

You came from someplace too Jane. Or did you just pop up out of the ground? You will never be more American than the rest of us.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Prove your words!


Prove which words?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/247747.php

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081230205653AAxMokT


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, it looks like Janeway has no more right to the land of the USA than any other immigrants do. Looks like the Eskimos were here first. Janeway and the rest of us must just be squatters.


Cindy S said:


> Prove which words?
> 
> http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/247747.php
> 
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081230205653AAxMokT


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, it looks like Janeway has no more right to the land of the USA than any other immigrants do. Looks like the Eskimos were here first. Janeway and the rest of us must just be squatters.


It would be amazing if she is not aware that her ancestors migrated from Asia, it is pretty common info if you know anything about them. There were no humans or primates native to South America, North America or Canada at any time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> It would be amazing if she is not aware that her ancestors migrated from Asia, it is pretty common info if you know anything about them. There were no humans or primates native to South America, North America or Canada at any time.


I know--it's a strange thought, isn't it? How would North and South America have developed if that land bridge hadn't existed? I suppose the continents would have been occupied, anyway, what with European nomads crunching over the ice pack and the odd drifting boat from Africa. But it certainly would have taken much much longer that way to fill the land up.


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## ksfsimkins (Jan 18, 2013)

My take on the democrats is very simple. Beyond all the rhetoric and finger pointing. Just think of anyone else that you would trust or follow if you were making any kind of legal contract or purchase for anything ... would you trust anyone else who would say,"Just sign it and you can read it later". We heard that over and over from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and now it is becoming very clear to the rest of the world that they knew that it was going to have the repurcussions it has had. And they wanted the Republicans to sign it not only without reading it but before it was even half written. I DON'T trust anyone who wants to pass legislation for anything that would use that kind of reasoning. And I have to wonder since so many of these people in Washington are or have been attorneys how anyone can trust them. Wake up people! No one wants others to go without but they also don't want to have to have insurance coverage that must include maternity coverage when they are past childbearing years. I have been past that stage of my life for over 14 years. Common sense is what we need. I don't often see it in this debate.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Maybe this is why President Obama would veto it :
> 
> Nearly 300 Pipeline Spills In North Dakota Have Gone Unreported To The Public Since January 2012. READ IT!
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/pipeline-spills-north-dakota_n_4170133.html


Thank you. And these "spills" aren't just little annoyances, they can poison entire regions, potentially for millennia. When you consider that it poisons the ground water, poisons the soil and poisons the air -- making everything including the people in the area sick and any property they own totally worthless (so they can't sell), it becomes something VERY, very wrong.

For example --



> *'Fort McMurray is a wasteland': Neil Young slams oil patch, Keystone plans*
> Source: The Globe and Mail
> Canadian rocker Neil Young has waded into the bitter debate over Albertas vast oil sands and the controversial Keystone XL pipeline planned to funnel one million barrels a day of Canadian crude to huge refineries in Texas and Louisiana.
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/fort-mcmurray-is-a-wasteland-neil-young-slams-oil-patch-keystone-plans/article14214514/z
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> According you Democrats, everyone that is receiving government assistance is fully warranted in doing so. Everyone is in the same financial position, everyone can't take care of themselves, let alone their families, everyone is entitled. Talk about putting everyone into their little box. Why do you do that?


I think in general we're not so much in the habit of judgmentally putting people in the boxes conservaties do: this person ""deserves" help, this person only deserves our scorn.

It's not that we don't ever judge, it's more that we're not really proud of being judgmental when we engage in that behavior like conservatives do, and feel that overwhelmingly, people "down on their luck" (for whatever reason, including "poor choices") need -- and deserve -- help instead of judgment and punishment.

It's called compassion, and I'm not surprised that a conservative would need to ask such a question as you did.

There is so little fraud and cheating involved that the full amount of it would literally put you to shame for your cold-heartedness. Not that it never happens, just that there is NO perfect program, NO program that won't at some time be abused and misused. But no where else do we threaten to cut the whole thing off so that everyone suffers because a few people misuse their access to the nation's generosity.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

momeee said:


> Some younger workers deceive themselves in believing that they automatically deserve MUCH higher wages regardless of their education, experience, intelligence, or reliability, and thus will not accept any job that they deem beneath them. It is the mature worker who is often more willing to make sacrifices of all kinds to provide for herself and her family.


I'm quite sure that's not at all true -- or if it is, in today's job environment, they will soon learn better than to turn down jobs offered. Too many with expensive educations have been forced into low wage fast food jobs, and so forth.

I also way to say, unequivocally, that anyone who works full time and doesn't earn a living wage is paid too little. EVERYONE giving 40 hours of their life for the benefit of some corporation or business or even non-profit "deserves" a living wage.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm sure anyone of you that think I'm ignorant wouldn't think twice about someone killing a baby.


One has nothing to do with the other, joey.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> It would be amazing if she is not aware that her ancestors migrated from Asia, it is pretty common info if you know anything about them. There were no humans or primates native to South America, North America or Canada at any time.


I have to come to believe that she has no idea where she came from or where she is now for all that matters. 
The story changes often


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> All I can see from the Libs, progressives, is negative. What won't work. None of what will.


Oh, I don't know, seems to me some VERY good ideas were posted and this was YOUR response:

http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4429278&t=219335


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Since that question was almost 3 weeks ago, if you went back far to find it, you should have been able to read my answer. Sad that you weren't able to find the answer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't think that you would have to refer to youtube to answer a simple question. Guess it was not an intelligent enough answer for you to post?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Here is the proof: (Image of soldiers in Iraq and the caption: "We get paid less than minimum wage and you demand $15 an hour to slap a burger on a bun."


For shame, for shame. There's not a one of US who support a $15 minimum wage who wouldn't also support that and more for our troops. YOU people don't support a living wage for either. Our active duty military and their families are among those who NEED food stamps -- the very food stamps you and your "leaders" would cut further. And some of the others who need food stamps are unemployed (and often homeless) vets.

For shame, for shame, for shame: It's YOUR hallowed leaders who won't even pass a jobs bill for our returning troops.

It's really a very ugly, low blow to pit our active duty and non-active duty veterans against others who need to be able to take care of themselves when they do work, if they do have jobs. For shame, for shame.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't care if you or anyone believes my nationality because I think all of you are jealous of the fact that I'm the true American & the rest of you are all foreigners! This land is my land as we were here first & those who arrived by boats took it away from us.


I just want to know the amazing story of how your father came by the Wal-Mart stock that made you independently wealthy so many years later. That's all.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What most people don't realize that most McDonald restaurants are independently owned, and they pay a percentage of sales (before any expenses) to McDonalds corp. If they do not have enough sales to pay the expenses they will need to close.


My husband was a fast food franchisee for a while. Trust me, they'll be fine.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No wonder the Republicans will not bring this up for a vote, nothing but problems. Many have been tried and did not work. My view is in bold.
> 
> The best jobs bill would be to get out of the way of the private sector.


Absolutely correct, Joeysomma! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

There seems to be lots of hostility from the righties about fast food workers agitating for better pay, walking off the job etc--just as they bristle when folks say that they won't shop at Hobby Lobby.

Really, aren't things like striking for salary increases and choosing carefully where we spend our $$$ basic tenets of the free enterprise system? I'd think conservatives would be all for such actions--after all, it's capitalism at its finest.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I just want to know the amazing story of how your father came by the Wal-Mart stock that made you independently wealthy so many years later. That's all.


Oh good, I'm not the only one who was wonder that!


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Joey isn't talking about getting rid of all regulations and laws. That is taking what she said out of context. There are so many that are only there to hurt industries, not help the people. I.e many of the new regulations and mandates on the coal industry. Coal is a cheap form of energy. With most of the regulations, the industry has cleaned up its act. ...


Coal is the dirtiest form of energy there is (well, except for nuclear which can take out an entire planet, as Fukushima may yet show us) -- and that means that the real costs of coal are SOCIALIZED among the taxpayers, workers, and everyday people affected by its health-destroying filth while the obscene profits -- the ones preventing coal mine owners from paying decent wages and cleaning up their messes. Coal needs to go the way of the dinosaurs it is created from.


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## loribelle (Sep 16, 2011)

Wow! Some of the comments on this thread are so ugly! It would be nice if KP would shut it down. Just my opinion.

Makes me wonder if some folks are on KP just to b*tich about things and have no interst in k/c. I can get this on Facebook from my friends on each side of the political spectrum. 

I understand that this is on general chit chat, but seriously people????


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Most McDonald's are franchises, very few are owned by the corporate offices. They are considered separate small businesses and operate on a tight budget. They are not connected to the mother ship in the way you present. *All of these restaurants cannot afford to pay double the minimum wage and stay in business.* I am not in any way condoning the pay of corporate executives, as I find it horrible. I am saying that these restaurants are not receiving the great profits that people think.


Then it's a poor business model that needs to be scrapped and re-envisioned.

BTW, 85% are franchise. And McDonald's corporate can give up some of its royalties which they recently upped to 12% -- a bit high. Too high. They can pay their CEO less for starters.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I didn't want to ask, as she isn't terribly fond of me....But was wondering that myself, as this is the first time I'm hearing of it. And if this was the case, why didn't she say something before? I'm guessing it's another one of, what my GD's would call a "spoof"....which is when they are telling a fib....


Lkholcomb said:


> Oh good, I'm not the only one who was wonder that!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Not nice to call me a bigot! You really don't want to know what I think about you.


Did I specifically call you, Janeway a bigot? If I did I am sorry. But I do not think I called you a bigot.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> One has nothing to do with the other, joey.


When all else fails, bring up the baby killers. ABORTION, gets your attention every time. Has nothing to do with the topic on hand, but wow...sure is a show stopper.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

ksfsimkins said:


> My take on the democrats is very simple. Beyond all the rhetoric and finger pointing. Just think of anyone else that you would trust or follow if you were making any kind of legal contract or purchase for anything ... would you trust anyone else who would say,"Just sign it and you can read it later". We heard that over and over from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and now it is becoming very clear to the rest of the world that they knew that it was going to have the repurcussions it has had. And they wanted the Republicans to sign it not only without reading it but before it was even half written. I DON'T trust anyone who wants to pass legislation for anything that would use that kind of reasoning. And I have to wonder since so many of these people in Washington are or have been attorneys how anyone can trust them. Wake up people! No one wants others to go without but they also don't want to have to have insurance coverage that must include maternity coverage when they are past childbearing years. I have been past that stage of my life for over 14 years. Common sense is what we need. I don't often see it in this debate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Coal is the dirtiest form of energy there is (well, except for nuclear which can take out an entire planet, as Fukushima may yet show us) -- and that means that the real costs of coal are SOCIALIZED among the taxpayers, workers, and everyday people affected by its health-destroying filth while the obscene profits -- the ones preventing coal mine owners from paying decent wages and cleaning up their messes. Coal needs to go the way of the dinosaurs it is created from.


Coal is as dirty as ever and you are correct, Knitry. Let the remains of the dinosaurs rest in peace, in the ground where it belongs. We have to get over our addiction to fossil fuels for good. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Speaking of ACA aka Obamacare I am all signed up and ready to go. Will be getting far better coverage for a smaller premium amount than I had to pay before and I will be going to all my same providers, clinic and hospital. None of the doctors have quit and people are signing up in large numbers now that most of the kinks have been straightened out. Too bad GOP you did everything your evil little minds could dream of including outright lying to people about ACA. Deal with it. You lost and the the people are the winners. America has finally arrived and all of the people finally have healthcare which is and always should have been a basic right for all it's citizens. :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Speaking of ACA aka Obamacare I am all signed up and ready to go. Will be getting far better coverage for a smaller premium amount than I had to pay before and I will be going to all my same providers, clinic and hospital. None of the doctors have quit and people are signing up in large numbers now that most of the kinks have been straightened out. Too bad GOP you did everything your evil little minds could dream of including outright lying to people about ACA. Deal with it. You lost and the the people are the winners. America has finally arrived and all of the people finally have healthcare which is and always should have been a basic right for all it's citizens. :thumbup:


FANTASTIC news. Congratulations!! I'm really happy for you.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Good for you......glad to hear it's up and running properly... :thumbup:


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Speaking of ACA aka Obamacare I am all signed up and ready to go. Will be getting far better coverage for a smaller premium amount than I had to pay before and I will be going to all my same providers, clinic and hospital. None of the doctors have quit and people are signing up in large numbers now that most of the kinks have been straightened out. Too bad GOP you did everything your evil little minds could dream of including outright lying to people about ACA. Deal with it. You lost and the the people are the winners. America has finally arrived and all of the people finally have healthcare which is and always should have been a basic right for all it's citizens. :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, my dear, you sure run your lies again & again so many times you actually believe them! Shame on you for judging Joey!
> 
> This is what Obo supporters are!


Jane you and joey are two stupid peas in a pod. I would laugh at you but why waste a good chuckle on mean spirited idiots like the two of you. You are not worth squat along with the rest of your pea brain tidy righties. Nothing new coming out of your sector. Kind of hard when you lack brains and souls to effectively function isn't it? Even the Pope is calling you out for the frauds you all are on the right. I wonder what LTL will do now? Tell the Pope he's wrong? :lol:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane you and joey are two stupid peas in a pod. I would laugh at you but why waste a good chuckle on mean spirited idiots like the two of you. You are not worth squat along with the rest of your pea brain tidy righties. Nothing new coming out of your sector. Kind of hard when you lack brains and souls to effectively function isn't it? Even the Pope is calling you out for the frauds you all are on the right. I wonder what LTL will do now? Tell the Pope he's wrong? :lol:


How good can your arguments possibly be when you resort to name calling and ad-hominem remarks? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

How many of you who denounce fossil fuels have taken steps to:
- grow all food using only your own manual labour 
- take yourself off the power grid, water and sewage systems
- wear only clothes from fibers or skins that you have manually produced yourselves
- give up all forms of motorized transport
- give up everything that uses any form of plastic 
- give up all medical, orthopedic, dental and optical care except for natural products produced by manual labour without equipment or power sources
- use only dishes, tools and implements that you were able to manually craft from natural products

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/02/07/life-after-energy-what-if-fossil-fuels-disappeared-tommorrow/


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Good for you......glad to hear it's up and running properly... :thumbup:


Nussa I am glad to see you putting the idiots on the right in their place. They just mimic their politician's views and Rush and O'Reilly. Not an ounce of original thought out of any of them. I actually think they frown upon higher education "anything above grade school". Can't trust people who "get above their learnin". Don't ever question anything and just keep yourself in the dark or you might see something scary. Hope there kids and grand kids don't buy into the crap and move into the current century that seems to allude their parents and grandparents. Thankfully, they will soon be irrelevant along with the GOP.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> How many of you who denounce fossil fuels have taken steps to:
> - grow all food using only your own manual labour
> - take yourself off the power grid, water and sewage systems
> - wear only clothes from fibers or skins that you have manually produced yourselves
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Do you have a state exchange in Minnesota? If you do, it is only because of the state exchange.


They do Joey, and I bet she is able to be on Medicare anyway. Besides, her statements are inaccurate and Franken is in trouble in the 2014 election.

_Obamacare in Minnesota: Some Good News, a Whole Lot of Bad_
By Sterling Beard
December 5, 2013

MNsure, Minnesotas state-run Obamacare exchange, has both good news and bad news.

The good news is that the total number of people who have selected a plan and a payment method is up to 24,600, more than double the 11,000 that were trying to pay early in November. Beyond that, its all downhill.

That figure is roughly a third of the 71,000 people who have applied for insurance thus far. Moreover, only about 4,400 of those people are purchasing private plans  the remainder are enrolling in Medicaid and MinnesotaCare, a separate public program.

People enrolling may not actually get their plans, because MNsure is having problems sending enrollment information to insurers. Some of the electronic files contain errors, such as incorrect addresse, so the exchange and the insurers are now cross-checking information and entering it manually.

Customers who dont have accurate information wont get an invoice, and therefore wont have an insurance policy.

Furthermore, MNsures web portal last month gave several consumers inaccurate information when determining if they were eligible for government health plans and under-calculated subsidies for private insurance. To address the problem, MNsure is double-checking up to 40,000 applications and will notify applicants with their eligibility status.

And the risk pool looks awful: 49 percent of those enrolling in private-sector plans are aged 50 and up, and an additional 15 percent of enrollees lie in the 4150 range. Enrollees need to be much younger on average for the exchanges to function properly.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> How many of you who denounce fossil fuels have taken steps to:
> - grow all food using only your own manual labour
> - take yourself off the power grid, water and sewage systems
> - wear only clothes from fibers or skins that you have manually produced yourselves
> ...


You bring up excellent points, WCK! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Are they ready to basically live in the 'dark ages'? :thumbdown:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Speaking of ACA aka Obamacare I am all signed up and ready to go. Will be getting far better coverage for a smaller premium amount than I had to pay before and I will be going to all my same providers, clinic and hospital. None of the doctors have quit and people are signing up in large numbers now that most of the kinks have been straightened out. Too bad GOP you did everything your evil little minds could dream of including outright lying to people about ACA. Deal with it. You lost and the the people are the winners. America has finally arrived and all of the people finally have healthcare which is and always should have been a basic right for all it's citizens. :thumbup:


Same, Patty--we switched from Blue Cross to Kaiser with a minimum of problems via the California marketplace. 
:thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Same, Patty--we switched from Blue Cross to Kaiser with a minimum of problems via the California marketplace.
> :thumbup:


That is not Patty.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> You bring up excellent points, WCK! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> Are they ready to basically live in the 'dark ages'? :thumbdown:


You know, of course, that the world's supplies of oil and coal are not infinite. Don't you think it would be wise to explore alternate energy sources NOW, before the final drops of oils and lumps of coal are gone?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is not Patty.


You're right--sorry, Cheeky!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> President Obama wants to save the land. Do you really think if the oil pipeline is allowed to go through that we won't have oil leaking in all our ground water. Do you want to be able to light a fire when you turn on your faucet. Big oil has proven time and time again that they do not follow through on the safety rules we have and I am sure you want less rules for them as it is. You read all the times how after these oil spill they have know about cracked pipes etc, but didn't do anything about it. You thing drilling for oil everywhere is going to be good for jobs but what will it do to our environment?


You need to do some research on oil and fracking. Fracking produces much cheaper energy, provides jobs, helps our economy, will make American less dependent and in time can make us completely free from needing foreign oil and energy and cuts down on polluting the environment and makes for cleaner air.

Oh, and BTW, MIT proved the tap water with methane which was a dramatic show for TV, was just that, a 'show' and had nothing to do with fracking in the owner's home or on his lands or from fracking within his area.

It was for show and you 'bought' it because you are of low information like most who oppose fracking. Technology will improve what is already great today and make it even better for America in the future. High out-put of much cleaner, cheaper and safer energy, along with jobs and an economic boom.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> How good can your arguments possibly be when you resort to name calling and ad-hominem remarks? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


Exactly correct; not good at all is the answer.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> How many of you who denounce fossil fuels have taken steps to:
> - grow all food using only your own manual labour
> - take yourself off the power grid, water and sewage systems
> - wear only clothes from fibers or skins that you have manually produced yourselves
> ...


 :thumbup: I bet none have done any thing on your list.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They do Joey, and I bet she is able to be on Medicare anyway. Besides, her statements are inaccurate and Franken is in trouble in the 2014 election.
> 
> _Obamacare in Minnesota: Some Good News, a Whole Lot of Bad_
> By Sterling Beard
> ...


KPG you are as always, your usual ignorant self who knows nothing but what she is hand fed by her ignorant sources. I expect nothing from you as you have nothing of worth to offer. Sorry but ACA is working and I am not old enough for Medicare and unlike you I am not feeding from the govt. largess. Lots of righties are either on county, state or federal assistance and they have nightmares about someone else stealing their "entitlements". Yes, there were problems initially but Mnsure along with federal ACA are up and running. Too bad your legislators were too ignorant or was it too lazy to not read the plan. I believe that is what they are sent to Washington to do, correct? Someone should inform them of what they swore to do when they took office but I guess you got what you paid for, right? Idiots all. Now the Pope is even turned against you. Too funny. Poor LTL, what will she do now. Tell the Pope he is wrong like she does everyone else? After taking a respite from KP I came back to find you are all still the same illiterates on the right and nothing has changed but the tide is turning and not in your favor. All that hatred and mean spirited behavior just burns you up and their isn't much left of any of you you have become redundant. You better look that one up tin man. You probably don't use it in your less than stellar vernacular. It's not even too much fun "discussing" things with you as you are no match for the lovely ladies on the left. None of you can keep up and your numbers are shrinking and the GOP will soon cease to exist. Boo hoo so sad. If you want to play the fool then go ahead. You do it so well. All any of you are is a source of amusement so if you wish to amuse me go right ahead and I will do as I wish. Tin man is that you making that squeaking noise? You should get that checked out before the end of the year and ACA kicks in and takes everything away from you and puts you on the "list". :twisted:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I bet none have done any thing on your list.


Still quoting the bible I see. You know that never saved anyone's soul don't you? I suppose it offers comfort to simple minded folk like yourself who don't even practice what they post.
I am doing my happy dance KPG. You just make me laugh out loud. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> WCK what a good website. Makes one think.
> 
> With Obama closing the coal mines in West Virginia and not allowing oil exploration. We are in real danger if OPEC shuts down their supply.


You be stupid, Joey and funny. You got it all wrong as usual. Bless you little heart dear. :thumbup:


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You need to do some research on oil and fracking. Fracking produces much cheaper energy, provides jobs, helps our economy, will make American less dependent and in time can make us completely free from needing foreign oil and energy and cuts down on polluting the environment and makes for cleaner air.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, MIT proved the tap water with methane which was a dramatic show for TV, was just that, a 'show' and had nothing to do with fracking in the owner's home or on his lands or from fracking within his area.
> 
> It was for show and you 'bought' it because you are of low information like most who oppose fracking. Technology will improve what is already great today and make it even better for America in the future. High out-put of much cleaner, cheaper and safer energy, along with jobs and an economic boom.


  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: thank you for this information. Unfortunately, there are so many areas that citizens need to be educated on in order to be informed voters and active participants. Before even trying to learn about all sides of an issue one has to be educated enough to validate sources. Sometimes those we think are trustworthy, aren't.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

KPG......on this one you'd better just keep quite. I live in a state that is getting the oil out of the ground by fracking....Right now, they are dumping the saline contaminated water where ever they please. Then some official comes in, slaps their wrists, fines them....and not near enough....and the place that's been dumped on can't be used.....
Read this, then please keep your misinformation to yourself:

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi



knitpresentgifts said:


> You need to do some research on oil and fracking. Fracking produces much cheaper energy, provides jobs, helps our economy, will make American less dependent and in time can make us completely free from needing foreign oil and energy and cuts down on polluting the environment and makes for cleaner air.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, MIT proved the tap water with methane which was a dramatic show for TV, was just that, a 'show' and had nothing to do with fracking in the owner's home or on his lands or from fracking within his area.
> 
> It was for show and you 'bought' it because you are of low information like most who oppose fracking. Technology will improve what is already great today and make it even better for America in the future. High out-put of much cleaner, cheaper and safer energy, along with jobs and an economic boom.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: thank you for this information. Unfortunately, there are so many areas that citizens need to be educated on in order to be informed voters and active participants. Before even trying to learn about all sides of an issue one has to be educated enough to validate sources. Sometimes those we think are trustworthy, aren't.


http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

No problem, Susan. Good to see you. I see the righties are just as ill informed as always so that hasn't changed. Looks like the GOP will soon cease to exist with everybody they are alienating. Too bad. They used to actually have some members who actually had brains, could compromise and had compassion for their fellowman. All those good Christian TP folks knocked that right out of them. :-D


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You know, of course, that the world's supplies of oil and coal are not infinite. Don't you think it would be wise to explore alternate energy sources NOW, before the final drops of oils and lumps of coal are gone?


Who is this Jokim character? She must have crawled out of a cave or was living under a stump. Sure doesn't seem to grasp what is going on in the world today. Wonder if she knows what century this is? I just can't resist. She leaves herself or is it a he just wide open for ridicule. ;-)


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage...


Thank you for the additional information. Living in the east, this is a topic about which there is never any information in the newspapers or on TV. Obviously it is quite complicated and is fraught with dangers. It sounds like it is nearly impossible to guard against many of the possible failures...????


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I bet none have done any thing on your list.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

To be honest, the oil boom has turned this state into a place not to many people would want to live, if they didn't already own property & a home here. I don't think we'll survive the whole mess. The western part of our state will someday be useless....and we can't stop it.


momeee said:


> Thank you for the additional information. Living in the east, this is a topic about which there is never any information in the newspapers or on TV. Obviously it is quite complicated and is fraught with dangers. It sounds like it is nearly impossible to guard against many of the possible failures...????


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You need to do some research on oil and fracking. Fracking produces much cheaper energy, provides jobs, helps our economy, will make American less dependent and in time can make us completely free from needing foreign oil and energy and cuts down on polluting the environment and makes for cleaner air.
> 
> Oh, and BTW, MIT proved the tap water with methane which was a dramatic show for TV, was just that, a 'show' and had nothing to do with fracking in the owner's home or on his lands or from fracking within his area.
> 
> It was for show and you 'bought' it because you are of low information like most who oppose fracking. Technology will improve what is already great today and make it even better for America in the future. High out-put of much cleaner, cheaper and safer energy, along with jobs and an economic boom.


I don't believe I said anything about fracking in my comment. You need to learn how to read, but I have done research on it , as it seems a lot more than you have. I was talking more about the oil leaking from places like pipelines and I can find you enough reading to occupy you for at least a whole day is you want me too. I am not of low information as you are proving more every day that you are. As I stated in another comment if there are 35 miles of pipeline that is 20 years old and they replace 200 feet of it for leaking, the rest of it is still 20 years old. So when do you think the next leak will happen?

The following is a technology review from, You guessed it, MIT.

Methane gas occurs naturally in the ground, and can seep into wells when the ground is disturbed. A Duke University study linked natural gas drilling to high methane levels in well water in 2011.

Prior to the drilling, the methane levels detected in the Klines' tap water -- which comes from a well -- were 9 milligrams per liter (mg/L), which is considered safe. Now, the levels have spiked to 22 mg/L.

I don't believe MIT proved anything.

No matter the cause of the pollution, people should not be forced to trade their childrens health or quality of life for cheap energy. Serious questions about the environmental and public-health impact of natural-gas drilling need to be addressed. While the burden of proof is on industry and regulators to show that shale gas development can be done without polluting the water and air or damaging our climate, one needs to be clear-eyed on the issue. Like any industrial activity, ­natural-gas development has risks, which can be reduced in a variety of ways. But with thousands of gas producers and service companies supporting them, there is no way the good intentions of a few in industry are going to win the day without help. There is no substitute for strong regulation and vigilant enforcement.

The Environmental Defense Fund is spearheading a national campaign to make sure that public health and the environment are not compromised by the natural-gas industry. Our objectives are simple. The rules on well construction, wastewater management, and air emissions must be reformed. Full disclosure of the fracking fluids deployed at wells must be required, because communities have a right to know what chemicals are used in their midst. Claims that production activities are safe mean nothing unless data on air emissions and water quality are regularly collected and publicly shared. Lastly, emissions of methane, the main ingredient in natural gas and a powerful greenhouse gas, should be limited to 1 percent or less of the total extracted at a well. Even small leaks can undo much of the environmental benefit of substituting natural gas for coal or oil, limiting the positive role that natural gas can play in a low-carbon future. Achieving these objectives will not be easy, but it is essential. The jury is still out on whether gas production can and will be done safely. The public will judge industry and regulators harshly if they fail to get this right.

http://www.technologyreview.com/view/509391/safer-fracking/


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

momeee said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: thank you for this information. Unfortunately, there are so many areas that citizens need to be educated on in order to be informed voters and active participants. Before even trying to learn about all sides of an issue one has to be educated enough to validate sources. Sometimes those we think are trustworthy, aren't.


You are so right and KPG is NOT a trustworthy source.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are so right and KPG is NOT a trustworthy source.


As we have always known KPG's sources are dubious at best and she seems to lack the ability to accept the truth and facts if they do not fit her "agenda". People who rely on her as a reliable source for anything will generally be misled. Generally this is about 99.9% of the time. Her record is not good and she is guilty of making up facts as she posts.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She's just looking for attention, it doesn't seem to matter if it's good or bad....what a unhappy person she must be.....


NJG said:


> You are so right and KPG is NOT a trustworthy source.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You know, of course, that the world's supplies of oil and coal are not infinite. Don't you think it would be wise to explore alternate energy sources NOW, before the final drops of oils and lumps of coal are gone?


All people should respect our environment, but there are a lot of false assumptions and completely wrong information put forward. Other forms of energy have their own risks and most of them still require the involvement of fossil fuels to some extent.

Neil Young should spend a year living in Fort McMurray or just stick to his music. The many people who live and work in the area would not agree with his views and are in fact very much insulted. Surface oil from the region was historically used by locals as pitch and for weatherproofing. There have been major improvements in processing and reclamation and they continue to be made with ongoing research.

http://www.fortmcmurraytourism.com/
http://www.cenovus.com/

The BP oil spill was caused by the deliberate failure of an Amercian contractor to follow procedures and regulations. BP did the right thing by accepting responsibility for the negligent actions of its contractor. The problem was not in the technology but in the deliberate failure to follow procedures.

Pipelines are safer than rail transport. There are millions of miles of pipelines across the continent. There were several incidents of eco terrorism in N. Alberta where explosives were used on pipelines and the shut off valves did their jobs and the leaks were relatively small (this with the use of explosives). Most of a Quebec town was incinerated when a rail tanker crashed and exploded. My understanding is that train derailments and tanker trucks have caused more damage than pipelines.

Nothing is 100% safe, understand the pros and cons and make an informed decision.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Nussa said:


> KPG......on this one you'd better just keep quite. I live in a state that is getting the oil out of the ground by fracking....Right now, they are dumping the saline contaminated water where ever they please. Then some official comes in, slaps their wrists, fines them....and not near enough....and the place that's been dumped on can't be used.....
> Read this, then please keep your misinformation to yourself:
> 
> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi


I've also heard of some cases where fracking has resulted in water contamination (used for gas though, not oil). Not all technology is right for all regions. Info in your link indicates lack of enforcement for failing to follow regs - I hope that changes for you.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I didn't think that you would have to refer to youtube to answer a simple question. Guess it was not an intelligent enough answer for you to post?


I chose not to answer your redundant question.

I thought that the parody regarding the comparison of forced coffee drinking by the Obama Administration was clever, simple and easy enough for the Obamacultists to understand. Guess you didn't get it, sorry. I thought the cartoon format would be good.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

momeee said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: thank you for this information. Unfortunately, there are so many areas that citizens need to be educated on in order to be informed voters and active participants. Before even trying to learn about all sides of an issue one has to be educated enough to validate sources. Sometimes those we think are trustworthy, aren't.


Hi Momeee! As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. A lot of folks are willing to believe the hype of anything they see on TV without further study.

In 3-5 years the USA could be the number one producer of safe, clean, unlimited energy and within 10 years be completely independent of foreign oil. Of course, Obama has put a stop to any of those facts including the Keystone pipeline and fracking on the majority of public lands. However, we can still reach the same potential on private lands as being used today; it will just take longer and will trickle down to fewer Americans since it is only a privatized industry under President Obama.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> I don't believe I said anything about fracking in my comment.
> 
> I don't believe MIT proved anything.


You commented about water from a faucet flaming and the dangers of underground energy production - you bought the hype and now are trying to deny the facts on a subject which you show by your comments you know nothing about.

You're right, of course, and know much better than any MIT study or research, energy companies and scientists, and science or facts proving against _your_ research.

Be sure to keep on believing yourself over the research because you know so much about energy production, flipping hamburgers and business creation and management.

:-D :XD:

Oh, and as a Liberal, you should be FOR cheaper energy sources, thousands of skilled jobs paying a good wage, a MORE robust economy AND a cleaner environment. All results of safe fracking.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I've also heard of some cases where fracking has resulted in water contamination (used for gas though, not oil). Not all technology is right for all regions. Info in your link indicates lack of enforcement for failing to follow regs - I hope that changes for you.





Nussa said:


> KPG......on this one you'd better just keep quite. I live in a state that is getting the oil out of the ground by fracking....Right now, they are dumping the saline contaminated water where ever they please.


Nussa should keep "quite" shouldn't she? :-D Fracking has nothing to do with any methane that exists naturally in the ground. Oh, and naturally she is very afraid of "salt" contaminating the water around her as well. How has she managed to avoid salt water on this great earth? :XD: I wonder if she wears contacts or ever ate a preserved food or fish or shellfish or ever swam in the ocean? 

AND, here is the biggie - her state gets NATURAL GAS from fracking - not OIL! What a dunce . a BIG one.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky, don't you live in Minn. that has a state exchange and you do not go through the Obamacare website?

If I am not mistaken, I thought you said awhile ago that you were retired, which means you are on Medcare and are eligible for a subsidy which I believe is different from the Obamacare exchanges. If I am wrong, I apologize and happy that you are saving money through the State Exchange, even if it means you get a subsidy. But that means you are saving money and costing others more of theirs.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They do Joey, and I bet she is able to be on Medicare anyway. Besides, her statements are inaccurate and Franken is in trouble in the 2014 election.
> 
> _Obamacare in Minnesota: Some Good News, a Whole Lot of Bad_
> By Sterling Beard
> ...


You bring up very good points, KPG! :thumbup: 
Franken in trouble in 2014? Be still my foolish heart! :lol: They'll probably find more votes in his favor in some obscure car trunks when the count gets dicey.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Coal is as dirty as ever and you are correct, Knitry. Let the remains of the dinosaurs rest in peace, in the ground where it belongs. We have to get over our addiction to fossil fuels for good. :thumbup:


Coal is the fossilized remains of ancient forests. Perhaps it contains some remains of dinosaurs who were trapped in these forests.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Coal is the dirtiest form of energy there is (well, except for nuclear which can take out an entire planet, as Fukushima may yet show us) -- and that means that the real costs of coal are SOCIALIZED among the taxpayers, workers, and everyday people affected by its health-destroying filth while the obscene profits -- the ones preventing coal mine owners from paying decent wages and cleaning up their messes. Coal needs to go the way of the dinosaurs it is created from.


Coal burners have been cleaned up with scrubbers. Nuclear energy has the most dangerous residuals, and risks, while in operation. Half-life of plutonium is thousands of years! Its radiation poisoning threat, for such a long time, is a sword hanging over future generations' heads (but then, our future generations are already compromised financially by the spending of this administration). Solar energy is spotty, some areas of our country do not get enough sun to support present lifestyle. Wind does not always blow. So we're back to carbon based energy source, unless you'd like us to live in caves, but there again, for light and heat, one has to burn carbon!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Coal burners have been cleaned up with scrubbers. Nuclear energy has the most dangerous residuals, and risks, while in operation. Half-life of plutonium is thousands of years! Its radiation poisoning threat, for such a long time, is a sword hanging over future generations' heads (but then, our future generations are already compromised financially by the spending of this administration). Solar energy is spotty, some areas of our country do not get enough sun to support present lifestyle. Wind does not always blow. So we're back to carbon based energy source, unless you'd like us to live in caves, but there again, for light and heat, one has to burn carbon!


Jokim,

Everything you write is so informative and correct. Plus, you write without offending and being mean. So glad you are on this site.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> WCK what a good website. Makes one think.
> 
> With Obama closing the coal mines in West Virginia and not allowing oil exploration. We are in real danger if OPEC shuts down their supply.


The coal miners of WV and eastern KY, who were laid off, are on welfare now. That is the aim of this admin., to make them (and all of us, eventually) dependent on gov't handouts. How is that different from bondage? When the gov't pays for your lifestyle, it determines that lifestyle! :thumbdown:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> You bring up very good points, KPG! :thumbup:
> Franken in trouble in 2014? Be still my foolish heart! :lol: They'll probably find more votes in his favor in some obscure car trunks when the count gets dicey.


I know. :-D But even in the bluest of blue states, the citizens are restless and want him out too (not that he has done anything in his fraudulent position anyway).


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> Everything you write is so informative and correct. Plus, you write without offending and being mean. So glad you are on this site.


Agree, informed and classy. Thanks


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> Everything you write is so informative and correct. Plus, you write without offending and being mean. So glad you are on this site.


Thank you LL. Part of the problem in trying to have a civil discussion on this thread is that our side uses logic which the other side cannot comprehend because they react with emotion. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> The coal miners of WV and eastern KY, who were laid off, are on welfare now. That is the aim of this admin., to make them dependent on gov't handout. How is that different from bondage? When the gov't pays for your lifestyle, it determines that lifestyle! :thumbdown:


 :thumbup: Obama said he wanted to put miners out of business and work and he did. He also said he would boost the costs to purchase electricity for Americans 300% and is still working to accomplish that goal. Meanwhile he refused to act, speak or made quality decisions (or any decisions) for nearly two months after the BP oil spill and, of course, shut down the Keystone Pipeline. All done to make or keep Americans dependent on govt assistance and the nanny state.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Thank you LL. Part of the problem in trying to have a civil discussion on this thread is that our side uses logic which the other side cannot comprehend because they react with emotion. :-D


Bravo and True! :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. :-D But even in the bluest of blue states, the citizens are restless and want him out too (not that he has done anything in his fraudulent position anyway).


Your response KPG, reminded me to ask about this 'color' assignment to each side. This has been bothering me since the dems. took the color blue to symbolize themselves. The FARTHEST color from their ideology is blue. Red has always been the color of leftists, Marxists and the like. The colors of the flags of the two largest communist countries (USSR and China) were/are red. The first flags I saw in Bagdad, following the toppling of Husein, were the bright read flags of the communists who were dancing if the streets with joy. It always will be red for them in my book! :thumbup: 
They chose the color blue to deflect attention from their leftist idology and principles. One more example of their trying to appear as something they are not! :thumbdown:
Wish more people would see through it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You are so full of Bull S _ _ t it isn't funny. Do you live in an oil producing state? If not.....look one up.....Try No.Dak. You are so blind and so stupid it's a wonder you can remember to breath. Fracking is unsafe.....oil is oozing out of the broken pipes like they're sprinklers. The salt and toxic chemicals are being dumped, at night, onto peoples property illegally, destroying any further ability for it to produce a crop. I live around it's consequences every day. So don't you dare tell anyone I don't know what I'm talking about. And you quite obviously don't know how to use google, or you could easily come up with the truth about what is happening in oil country. But it only goes to prove you choose to pick and choose what you want people to read.....just what YOU want them to think. Like I said before......because you like to argue. 
So I suggest in the future you just STH up when it comes to this subject. Unless you are willing to tell the truth. And maybe you should read what I posted earlier, and here's a little extra to show you how the oil companies are wasting the natural gas that comes from these wells.

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/01/at-night-giant-fields-of-burning-natural-gas-make-north-dakota-visibile-from-space/


knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Momeee! As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. A lot of folks are willing to believe the hype of anything they see on TV without further study.
> 
> In 3-5 years the USA could be the number one producer of safe, clean, unlimited energy and within 10 years be completely independent of foreign oil. Of course, Obama has put a stop to any of those facts including the Keystone pipeline and fracking on the majority of public lands. However, we can still reach the same potential on private lands as being used today; it will just take longer and will trickle down to fewer Americans since it is only a privatized industry under President Obama.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you LL. Part of the problem in trying to have a civil discussion on this thread is that our side uses logic which the other side cannot comprehend because they react with emotion. :-D


Negative, uninformed emotion!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You are so full of Bull S _ _ t it isn't funny. Do you live in an oil producing state? If not.....look one up.....Try No.Dak. You are so blind and so stupid it's a wonder you can remember to breath. Fracking is unsafe.....oil is oozing out of the broken pipes like they're sprinklers. The salt and toxic chemicals are being dumped, at night, onto peoples property illegally, destroying any further ability for it to produce a crop. I live around it's consequences every day. So don't you dare tell anyone I don't know what I'm talking about. And you quite obviously don't know how to use google, or you could easily come up with the truth about what is happening in oil country. But it only goes to prove you choose to pick and choose what you want people to read.....just what YOU want them to think. Like I said before......because you like to argue.
> So I suggest in the future you just STH up when it comes to this subject. Unless you are willing to tell the truth. And maybe you should read what I posted earlier, and here's a little extra to show you how the oil companies are wasting the natural gas that comes from these wells.
> 
> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi
> ...


I would love to see a kind response.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Then go to a diff. site. And you are one to talk........You are just as bad as anyone else on this site. So when you make sainthood, then you can tell someone else how to act.


Lukelucy said:


> I would love to see a kind response.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I would love to see a kind response.


You won't, it is impossible for some Obamacultists to be nice. Some are so pathetic that they need to use vulgarity to get  attention.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I would love to see a kind response.


You won't, it is impossible for some Obamacultists to be nice. Some are so pathetic that they need to use vulgarity to get attention.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Your response KPG, reminded me to ask about this 'color' assignment to each side. This has been bothering me since the dems. took the color blue to symbolize themselves. The FARTHEST color from their ideology is blue. Red has always been the color of leftists, Marxists and the like. The colors of the flags of the two largest communist countries (USSR and China) were/are red.


Hmm...interesting. So why do you imagine the GOP chose red, the color of the Communists, the socialists, and all those other naughty folks?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Exactly correct; not good at all is the answer.


She was presenting the facts.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Momeee! As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. A lot of folks are willing to believe the hype of anything they see on TV without further study.
> 
> In 3-5 years the USA could be the number one producer of safe, clean, unlimited energy and within 10 years be completely independent of foreign oil. Of course, Obama has put a stop to any of those facts including the Keystone pipeline and fracking on the majority of public lands. However, we can still reach the same potential on private lands as being used today; it will just take longer and will trickle down to fewer Americans since it is only a privatized industry under President Obama.


Agree with you KPG, specific research should be done rather than throwing blanket generalizations and paraphrasing actors and musicians that don't know what they're talking about. All technology is better suited to some areas and not for others -that's why different options exist. In many cases advancement in technology has lessened the impact and made all the processes safer.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...interesting. So why do you imagine the GOP chose red, the color of the Communists, the socialists, and all those other naughty folks?


I believe the dems grabbed the blue color for themselves first.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Is that all you have to say about my post? Did you read what's happening in an oil producing state? No, because then you'd have to admit that most of the things you have been saying & posting is poorly investigated garbage.

Are you and your friends done patting each other on the back?

So far I haven't seen you post anything that wasn't something nasty about Democrats, or the President. Is anyone of you willing to take on the truths I posted?

I didn't think so..... You can't handle the truth.....You only deal in lies.......:thumbdown:


lovethelake said:


> You won't, it is impossible for some Obamacultists to be nice. Some are so pathetic that they need to use vulgarity to get attention.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Your response KPG, reminded me to ask about this 'color' assignment to each side. This has been bothering me since the dems. took the color blue to symbolize themselves. The FARTHEST color from their ideology is blue. Red has always been the color of leftists, Marxists and the like. The colors of the flags of the two largest communist countries (USSR and China) were/are red. The first flags I saw in Bagdad, following the toppling of Husein, were the bright read flags of the communists who were dancing if the streets with joy. It always will be red for them in my book! :thumbup:
> They chose the color blue to deflect attention from their leftist idology and principles. One more example of their trying to appear as something they are not! :thumbdown:
> Wish more people would see through it.


Interesting  I do not know why or how each party's color came to be. Yet, I'm probably not interested enough to try to find out either.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Coal burners have been cleaned up with scrubbers. Nuclear energy has the most dangerous residuals, and risks, while in operation. Half-life of plutonium is thousands of years! Its radiation poisoning threat, for such a long time, is a sword hanging over future generations' heads (but then, our future generations are already compromised financially by the spending of this administration). Solar energy is spotty, some areas of our country do not get enough sun to support present lifestyle. Wind does not always blow. So we're back to carbon based energy source, unless you'd like us to live in caves, but there again, for light and heat, one has to burn carbon!


And processing of bio-fuels requires a lot of energy to create and use of corn in creating bio-fuels has made this major source of food for people and livestock much more expensive


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Thank you LL. Part of the problem in trying to have a civil discussion on this thread is that our side uses logic which the other side cannot comprehend because they react with emotion. :-D


and for some - totally rude and obnoxious emotion at that


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> She was presenting the facts.


She presented none.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Nussa said:


> You are so full of Bull S _ _ t it isn't funny. Do you live in an oil producing state? If not.....look one up.....Try No.Dak. You are so blind and so stupid it's a wonder you can remember to breath. Fracking is unsafe.....oil is oozing out of the broken pipes like they're sprinklers. The salt and toxic chemicals are being dumped, at night, onto peoples property illegally, destroying any further ability for it to produce a crop. I live around it's consequences every day. So don't you dare tell anyone I don't know what I'm talking about. And you quite obviously don't know how to use google, or you could easily come up with the truth about what is happening in oil country. But it only goes to prove you choose to pick and choose what you want people to read.....just what YOU want them to think. Like I said before......because you like to argue.
> So I suggest in the future you just STH up when it comes to this subject. Unless you are willing to tell the truth. And maybe you should read what I posted earlier, and here's a little extra to show you how the oil companies are wasting the natural gas that comes from these wells.
> 
> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi
> ...


I've lived in an oil producing province for most of my life and have never seen anything close to what you describe. Maybe it's your officials working on your behalf that need the wake-up call


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Agree with you KPG, specific research should be done rather than throwing blanket generalizations and paraphrasing actors and musicians that don't know what they're talking about. All technology is better suited to some areas and not for others -that's why different options exist. In many cases advancement in technology has lessened the impact and made all the processes safer.


The last factual study I read, showed that 1 in 1,000 wells had minor spills of waste water. In the energy production industry, that isn't even worth talking about yet still would be improved and reduced in time with better technologies put in place. The risk/reward equation is mute. It is 'forward' all the way without any substantial risk for the rewards.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I believe the dems grabbed the blue color for themselves first.


No other colors to choose from, I take it. You might find this interesting:

"This terminology came into use in the United States presidential election of 2000 on an episode of the Today show on October 30, 2000. According to AlterNet and The Washington Post, the terms were coined by journalist Tim Russert, during his televised coverage of the 2000 presidential election.[1] That was not the first election during which the news media used colored maps to graphically depict voter preferences in the various states, but it was the first time a standard color scheme took hold; the colors were often reversed or different colors used before the 2000 election." (Ask.com)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I believe the dems grabbed the blue color for themselves first.


It could be something as simple as the fact that red shows up better in photography?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> and for some - totally rude and obnoxious emotion at that


I'll claim for "most" of the Libs.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I've lived in an oil producing province for most of my life and have never seen anything close to what you describe. Maybe it's your officials working on your behalf that need the wake-up call


I gave up reading her posts as they never have informative, accurate or factual info in them. Good luck trying to have an intelligent or logical conversation with her.

You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You won't, it is impossible for some Obamacultists to be nice. Some are so pathetic that they need to use vulgarity to get attention.


ain't that the truth


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The last factual study I read, showed that 1 in 1,000 wells had minor spills of waste water. In the energy production industry, that isn't even worth talking about yet still would be improved and reduced in time with better technologies put in place. The risk/reward equation is mute. It is 'forward' all the way without any substantial risk for the rewards.


Minor water spills are exaggerated into major disasters by the left to suit their purposes. Part of their MO. :thumbdown:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Then go to a diff. site. And you are one to talk........You are just as bad as anyone else on this site. So when you make sainthood, then you can tell someone else how to act.


I repeat, I would love to see everyone show kindness on this site. I will remain as I started the site.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You won't, it is impossible for some Obamacultists to be nice. Some are so pathetic that they need to use vulgarity to get attention.


I am afraid you are right.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I repeat, I would love to see everyone show kindness on this site. I will remain as I started the site.


She is vulgar and hateful and easy to ignore.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I gave up reading her posts as they never have informative, accurate or factual info in them. Good luck trying to have an intelligent or logical conversation with her.
> 
> You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production.


Check your facts. Fracking is for both.

"Hydraulic fracturing is the fracturing of rock by a pressurized liquid. Some hydraulic fractures form naturallycertain veins or dikes are examples. Induced hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracturing, commonly known as fracking, is a technique in which typically water is mixed with sand and chemicals, and the mixture is injected at high pressure into a wellbore to create small fractures (typically less than 1mm), along which fluids such as gas, petroleum, uranium-bearing solution,[1] and brine water may migrate to the well. Hydraulic pressure is removed from the well, then small grains of proppant (sand or aluminium oxide) hold these fractures open once the rock achieves equilibrium. The technique is very common in wells for shale gas, tight gas, tight oil, and coal seam gas[2][3] and hard rock wells. This well stimulation is usually conducted once in the life of the well and greatly enhances fluid removal and well productivity, but there has been an increasing trend towards multiple hydraulic fracturing as production declines. A different technique where only acid is injected is referred to as acidizing."

As of 2010, 60% of all new oil and gas wells in the world were being fracked.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I repeat, I would love to see everyone show kindness on this site. I will remain as I started the site.


Bravo, LL! :thumbup: That's what they want, to eliminate all opposition by driving them off this thread and others. Stay strong! :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Bravo, LL! :thumbup: That's what they want, to eliminate all opposition by driving them off this thread and others. Stay strong! :thumbup:


That is what they always want; yet LL began this and the Smoking/Obamacare threads!

"They" are not capable of creating anything of their own that is successful as they have proven multiple times. All their attempts ended in failure to date which is exactly why they infiltrate, interrupt and hover on threads always begun by a non-Liberal.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> and for some - totally rude and obnoxious emotion at that


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That is what they always want; yet LL began this and the Smoking/Obamacare threads!
> 
> "They" are not capable of creating anything of their own that is successful as they have proven multiple times. All their attempts ended in failure to date which is exactly why they infiltrate, interrupt and hover on threads always begun by a non-Liberal.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is vulgar and hateful and easy to ignore.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I've also heard of some cases where fracking has resulted in water contamination (used for gas though, not oil). Not all technology is right for all regions. Info in your link indicates lack of enforcement for failing to follow regs - I hope that changes for you.


That is the problem with the oil companies. They break or bend the rules as needed with no worry about the environment.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I think in general we're not so much in the habit of judgmentally putting people in the boxes conservaties do: this person ""deserves" help, this person only deserves our scorn.
> 
> It's not that we don't ever judge, it's more that we're not really proud of being judgmental when we engage in that behavior like conservatives do, and feel that overwhelmingly, people "down on their luck" (for whatever reason, including "poor choices") need -- and deserve -- help instead of judgment and punishment.
> 
> ...


We are all entitled to our opinions. If you want to believe only a few people misuse the system, then so be it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is vulgar and hateful and easy to ignore.


So much for showing the kindness on the site that LL was asking for, KPG.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Check your facts. Fracking is for both.
> 
> As of 2010, 60% of all new oil and gas wells in the world were being fracked.


Check what YOU read. I was discussing fracking for natural gas; who cares what you think someone else was talking about.

Both WCK and I referred to natural gas fracking articles posted and know what we are talking about. Obviously, you don't.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Why are you giving KPG's hateful words a thumbs up when you just expressed a wish that folks on the site be kinder to each other?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Check what YOU read. I was discussing fracking for natural gas; who cares what you think someone else was talking about.
> 
> Both WCK and I referred to natural gas fracking articles posted and know what we are talking about. Obviously, you don't.


Your exact words, KPG:

"You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production."


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Your exact words, KPG:
> 
> "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production."


How refreshing; that you are willing to point out and confirm you are an idiot and do not know or understand what you read.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you willing to point out and confirm you are an idiot?


Face it, KPG--you goofed. Again. How many times does this make? And how many times are you going to go back and edit your posts to try give yourself more wiggle room?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Face it, KPG--you goofed. Again. How many times does this make?


Face it - you don't have a clue what you are talking about - per usual.

Get a life, get a job and get an education it you want to stay and play.

ETA: (just for YOU) Hilarious - you continue to amaze me that you simply cannot comprehend the written word.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi Momeee! As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. A lot of folks are willing to believe the hype of anything they see on TV without further study.
> 
> In 3-5 years the USA could be the number one producer of safe, clean, unlimited energy and within 10 years be completely independent of foreign oil. Of course, Obama has put a stop to any of those facts including the Keystone pipeline and fracking on the majority of public lands. However, we can still reach the same potential on private lands as being used today; it will just take longer and will trickle down to fewer Americans since it is only a privatized industry under President Obama.


Again you are wrong. Beneficial to the environment? Injecting water, sand and other materials under high pressures into a well to fracture rock is beneficial? This opens up fissures that help oil and natural gas flow out more freely. This process generates wastewater that is often pumped underground as well, in order to get rid of it. Before January 2011, Youngstown, Ohio, which is located on the Marcellus Shale, had never experienced an earthquake, at least not since researchers began observations in 1776. 
However, in December 2010, the Northstar 1 injection well came online to pump wastewater from fracking projects in Pennsylvania into storage deep underground. In the year that followed, seismometers in and around Youngstown recorded 109 earthquakes, the strongest registering a magnitude-3.9 earthquake on Dec. 31, 2011. The well was shut down after the quake.
Scientists have known for decades that fracking and wastewater injection can trigger earthquakes. For instance, it appears linked with Oklahoma's strongest recorded quake in 2011, as well as a rash of more than 180 minor tremors in Texas between Oct. 30, 2008, and May 31, 2009.
For instance, the first earthquake recorded in Youngstown occurred 13 days after pumping began, and the tremors ceased shortly after the Ohio Department of Natural Resources shut down the well in December 2011. In addition, dips in earthquake activity lined up with Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and other times when injection at the well was temporarily stopped.

And what about all the oil pipelines that are already running underground, plus the additional ones they want add also. Do you think they may be disturbed and maybe cracked and it is not known until the oil comes seeping up into your yard and you loose your home. What then, still safe?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Face it - you don't have a clue what you are talking about - per usual.
> 
> Get a life, get a job and get an education it you want to stay and play.


Hmm...I wonder if Aw and her magic fingers are available?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You commented about water from a faucet flaming and the dangers of underground energy production - you bought the hype and now are trying to deny the facts on a subject which you show by your comments you know nothing about.
> 
> You're right, of course, and know much better than any MIT study or research, energy companies and scientists, and science or facts proving against _your_ research.
> 
> ...


The comments I posted are also from MIT. You are the one who thinks you know more than anyone else, and I believe the research, not you. I don't believe there is such a thing as safe fracking and research is proving it. Do you want a earth quake where you live, and oil seeping up in your yard?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

They seldom practice what they preach.....


susanmos2000 said:


> So much for showing the kindness on the site that LL was asking for, KPG.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Who is this Jokim character? She must have crawled out of a cave or was living under a stump. Sure doesn't seem to grasp what is going on in the world today. Wonder if she knows what century this is? I just can't resist. She leaves herself or is it a he just wide open for ridicule. ;-)


What's the matter Cheeky? Things aren't going well on the home front so you come back on KP out for blood?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why are you giving KPG's hateful words a thumbs up when you just expressed a wish that folks on the site be kinder to each other?


Because my words were not hateful would be my guess.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nussa should keep "quite" shouldn't she? :-D Fracking has nothing to do with any methane that exists naturally in the ground. Oh, and naturally she is very afraid of "salt" contaminating the water around her as well. How has she managed to avoid salt water on this great earth? :XD: I wonder if she wears contacts or ever ate a preserved food or fish or shellfish or ever swam in the ocean?
> 
> AND, here is the biggie - her state gets NATURAL GAS from fracking - not OIL! What a dunce . a BIG one.


Fracking has everything to do with disturbing the rock formations underground that can release methane gas. The methane gas is naturally underground, so what makes it suddenly come to the surface? Too much salt kills vegetation, you idiot. There now complaine that I am calling you names. I don't usually do that but in this instance, there are just no other words that fit. I can't believe the things you say. You are so totally off kilter!!!!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Again you are wrong. Beneficial to the environment? Injecting water, sand and other materials under high pressures into a well to fracture rock is beneficial? This opens up fissures that help oil and natural gas flow out more freely. This process generates wastewater that is often pumped underground as well, in order to get rid of it. Before January 2011, Youngstown, Ohio, which is located on the Marcellus Shale, had never experienced an earthquake, at least not since researchers began observations in 1776.
> However, in December 2010, the Northstar 1 injection well came online to pump wastewater from fracking projects in Pennsylvania into storage deep underground. In the year that followed, seismometers in and around Youngstown recorded 109 earthquakes, the strongest registering a magnitude-3.9 earthquake on Dec. 31, 2011. The well was shut down after the quake.
> Scientists have known for decades that fracking and wastewater injection can trigger earthquakes. For instance, it appears linked with Oklahoma's strongest recorded quake in 2011, as well as a rash of more than 180 minor tremors in Texas between Oct. 30, 2008, and May 31, 2009.
> For instance, the first earthquake recorded in Youngstown occurred 13 days after pumping began, and the tremors ceased shortly after the Ohio Department of Natural Resources shut down the well in December 2011. In addition, dips in earthquake activity lined up with Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and other times when injection at the well was temporarily stopped.
> ...


Again you did not comprehend what I wrote. I'll pass on trying to explain your words, as they are not mine. I NEVER SAID fracking was "beneficial."

I'm so sorry you cannot understand simple English as written.

BTW: try expressing yourself in your own words instead of copying/pasting others' words as your own, especially when you don't understand them or what other's write.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> The coal miners of WV and eastern KY, who were laid off, are on welfare now. That is the aim of this admin., to make them (and all of us, eventually) dependent on gov't handouts. How is that different from bondage? When the gov't pays for your lifestyle, it determines that lifestyle! :thumbdown:


And government will determine who gets how much, let us be clear on that. How does that equate with social justice? Obama is so big on social justice, I wonder if he would live like the rest of the people. I think not.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> The comments I posted are also from MIT. You are the one who thinks you know more than anyone else, and I believe the research, not you. I don't believe there is such a thing as safe fracking and research is proving it. Do you want a earth quake where you live, and oil seeping up in your yard?


You are hilarious! I didn't tell you what I know, I used what MIT and other scientists proved out. If you believe the research, you agree with MIT and me. Perfect - too bad you don't understand yourself and what YOU posted though.

I've lived through many earthquakes and the research and studies proved fracking is safe now and getting more safe with better study and technology exactly as the research and I said prior.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She really is a moron isn't she? She doesn't even bother to check the facts and just spouts her stupidity.... :roll:


NJG said:


> Fracking has everything to do with disturbing the rock formations underground that can release methane gas. The methane gas is naturally underground, so what makes it suddenly come to the surface? Too much salt kills vegetation, you idiot. There now complaine that I am calling you names. I don't usually do that but in this instance, there are just no other words that fit. I can't believe the things you say. You are so totally off kilter!!!!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Agree with you KPG, specific research should be done rather than throwing blanket generalizations and paraphrasing actors and musicians that don't know what they're talking about. All technology is better suited to some areas and not for others -that's why different options exist. In many cases advancement in technology has lessened the impact and made all the processes safer.


This could be seen in the small businesses that came forward after the BP oil spill to help with the cleanup. There were many methods showcased to aid in the cleanup. Creativity at its best.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Wonder how much could have been achieved if we had put all that WASTED 'green energy money' into replacing the scrubbers on coal burning furnaces? But nooooooo Obama wanted to kill an industry, cause layoffs and waste billions of dollars on companies that went bankrupt.

I seem to remember that Obama did not acknowledge the BP oil spill for over a week. So one should not be surprised that those 11 men on the oil rig that died were ignored like the murdered men in Benghazi

But then again, it is the same Obamacultists that believe living in Minnesota (that is not part of Obamacare's Marketplace) is enrolling in Obamacare. That getting subsidies that they do not need to survive is okay with them. The lack of pride is appalling


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You are so full of Bull S _ _ t it isn't funny. Do you live in an oil producing state? If not.....look one up.....Try No.Dak. You are so blind and so stupid it's a wonder you can remember to breath. Fracking is unsafe.....oil is oozing out of the broken pipes like they're sprinklers. The salt and toxic chemicals are being dumped, at night, onto peoples property illegally, destroying any further ability for it to produce a crop. I live around it's consequences every day. So don't you dare tell anyone I don't know what I'm talking about. And you quite obviously don't know how to use google, or you could easily come up with the truth about what is happening in oil country. But it only goes to prove you choose to pick and choose what you want people to read.....just what YOU want them to think. Like I said before......because you like to argue.
> So I suggest in the future you just STH up when it comes to this subject. Unless you are willing to tell the truth. And maybe you should read what I posted earlier, and here's a little extra to show you how the oil companies are wasting the natural gas that comes from these wells.
> 
> http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi
> ...


So what does a farmer do if his farm is how he makes a living and the oil companies move in and start drilling? He owns the land, but not the mineral rights, so he gets no financial benefit from the oil and looses a way to make a living. Even if he raises cattle, they have to eat so he must produce food for them. I knew they were drilling for oil, but not that things had gotten this bad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are hilarious! I didn't tell you what I know, I used what MIT and other scientists proved out. If you believe the research, you agree with MIT and me. Perfect - too bad you don't understand yourself and what YOU posted though.
> 
> I've lived through many earthquakes and the research and studies proved fracking is safe now and getting more safe with better study and technology exactly as the research and I said prior.


Uh-huh.

--38 earthquakes (measuring between 2.2 to 3.8) in the Horn River Basin area between 2009 and 2011 that the British Columbia Oil and Gas Commission concluded were caused by hydraulic fracturing

--50 earthquakes greater than 3.0 between Alabama and Montana in 2009 caused by fracking, according to the USGS

--87 quakes in 2010 in the same region

--134 quakes in 2011, including a 4.0 in Ohio that was definitively linked to the disposal of hydraulic fracking water by seismologists at Columbia University

Real safe.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy....Lukelucy....Come quick......lovethelake.....isn't being nice or kind to us. She's calling us bad names.....If you are going to be fair, you'll have to come and tell them they aren't being nice. Right?



lovethelake said:


> Wonder how much could have been achieved if we had put all that WASTED 'green energy money' into replacing the scrubbers on coal burning furnaces? But nooooooo Obama wanted to kill an industry, cause layoffs and waste billions of dollars on companies that went bankrupt.
> 
> I seem to remember that Obama did not acknowledge the BP oil spill for over a week. So one should not be surprised that those 11 men on the oil rig that died were ignored like the murdered men in Benghazi
> 
> But then again, it is the same Obamacultists that believe living in Minnesota (that is not part of Obamacare's Marketplace) is enrolling in Obamacare. That getting subsidies that they do not need to survive is okay with them. The lack of pride is appalling


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She really is a moron isn't she? She doesn't even bother to check the facts and just spouts her stupidity.... :roll:


Yes, she is. Even more laughable are her attempts to back peddle when she gets her facts wrong.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> How many of you who denounce fossil fuels have taken steps to:
> - grow all food using only your own manual labour
> - take yourself off the power grid, water and sewage systems
> - wear only clothes from fibers or skins that you have manually produced yourselves
> ...


You bring up some good points. I start thinking about what we replace fossil fuels with. Wind and solar power aren't contributing much right now and it isn't clear how much power can ideally be gotten from those sources.

France has 22 nuclear reactors and a plan to decommission many of them. I think about getting rid of nuclear waste and think of the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in eastern Washing state. Here's some edited infor from Wikipedia, where you can get more detailed information:

Heres some interesting but somewhat tedious information on the Hanford Nuclear Reservation, including the fun fact that nuclear waste water and sludge are still stored there in containers that were designed to last 20 years. We really havent figured out what to do with nuclear waste, though it seems to me we could keep NASA busy blasting the stuff to the Sun. For more fun and interesting information about nuclear power, check out what France has been doing. They derive a great deal of the power they use from nuclear reactors

*From Wikipedia:
Hanford Site*

Nuclear reactors line the riverbank at the Hanford Site along the Columbia River in January 1960. The N Reactor is in the foreground, with the twin KE and KW Reactors in the immediate background. The historic B Reactor, the world's first plutonium production reactor, is visible in the distance.The Hanford Site is a mostly decommissioned nuclear production complex operated by the United States federal government on the Columbia River in the U.S. state of Washington. The site has been known by many names, including: Hanford Project, Hanford Works, Hanford Engineer Works or HEW and Hanford Nuclear Reservation or HNR.

Established in 1943 as part of the Manhattan Project in the town of Hanford in south-central Washington, the site was home to the B Reactor, the first full-scale plutonium production reactor in the world. Plutonium manufactured at the site was used in the first nuclear bomb, tested at the Trinity site, and in Fat Man, the bomb detonated over Nagasaki, Japan.

During the Cold War, the project was expanded to include nine nuclear reactors and five large plutonium processing complexes, which produced plutonium for most of the more than 60,000 weapons in the U.S. nuclear arsenal. Nuclear technology developed rapidly during this period, and Hanford scientists produced many notable technological achievements. *Many of the early safety procedures and waste disposal practices were inadequate, and government documents have since confirmed that Hanford's operations released significant amounts of radioactive materials into the air and the Columbia River, which still threatens the health of residents and ecosystems.*

The Hanford site represents two-thirds of the nation's high-level radioactive waste by volume. *Hanford is currently the most contaminated nuclear site in the United States and is the focus of the nation's largest environmental cleanup.* While most of the current activity at the site is related to the cleanup project, Hanford also hosts a commercial nuclear power plant, the Columbia Generating Station, and various centers for scientific research and development, such as the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory and the LIGO Hanford Observatory.

*History*
The confluence of the Yakima, Snake, and Columbia rivers has been a meeting place for native peoples for centuries. The archaeological record of Native American habitation of this area stretches back over ten thousand years. Tribes and nations including the Yakama, Nez Perce, and Umatilla used the area for hunting, fishing, and gathering plant foods. Hanford archaeologists have identified numerous Native American sites, including "pit house villages, open campsites, fishing sites, hunting/kill sites, game drive complexes, quarries, and spirit quest sites", and two archaeological sites were listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1976.

*Native American use of the area continued into the 20th century, even as the tribes were relocated to reservations. The Wanapum people were never forced onto a reservation, and they lived along the Columbia River in the Priest Rapids Valley until 1943. Euro-Americans began to settle the region in the 1860s, initially along the Columbia River south of Priest Rapids. They established farms and orchards supported by small-scale irrigation projects and railroad transportation, with small town centers at Hanford, White Bluffs, and Richland.*

*Manhattan Project*
During World War II, the Uranium Committee of the federal Office of Scientific Research and Development (OSRD) sponsored an intensive research project on plutonium. The research contract was awarded to scientists at the University of Chicago Metallurgical Laboratory (Met Lab). At the time, plutonium was a rare element that had only recently been isolated in a University of California laboratory. The Met Lab researchers worked on producing chain-reacting "piles" of uranium to convert it to plutonium and finding ways to separate plutonium from uranium. The program was accelerated in 1942, as the United States government became concerned that scientists in Nazi Germany were developing a nuclear weapons program.

By April 1945, shipments of plutonium were headed to Los Alamos every five days, and Hanford soon provided enough material for the bombs tested at Trinity and dropped over Nagasaki. Throughout this period, the Manhattan Project maintained a top secret classification. Until news arrived of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, fewer than one percent of Hanford's workers knew they were working on a nuclear weapons project. General Groves noted in his memoirs that "We made certain that each member of the project thoroughly understood his part in the total effort; that, and nothing more."

*Cold War expansion*

By 1963, the Hanford Site was home to nine nuclear reactors along the Columbia River, five reprocessing plants on the central plateau, and more than 900 support buildings and radiological laboratories around the site. Extensive modifications and upgrades were made to the original three World War II reactors, and a total of 177 underground waste tanks were built. Hanford was at its peak production from 1956 to 1965. Over the entire 40 years of operations, the site produced about 63 short tons (57 t) of plutonium, supplying the majority of the 60,000 weapons in the U.S. arsenal. Uranium-233 was also produced.

*Decommissioning*
Most of the reactors were shut down between 1964 and 1971, with an average individual life span of 22 years. The last reactor, N Reactor, continued to operate as a dual-purpose reactor, being both a power reactor used to feed the civilian electrical grid via the Washington Public Power Supply System (WPPSS) and a plutonium production reactor for nuclear weapons. N Reactor operated until 1987. Since then, most of the Hanford reactors have been entombed ("cocooned") to allow the radioactive materials to decay, and the surrounding structures have been removed and buried. The B-Reactor has not been cocooned and is accessible to the public on occasional guided tours. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1992, and some historians advocate converting it into a museum. B reactor was designated a National Historic Landmark by the National Park Service on August 19, 2008.

The United States Department of Energy assumed control of the Hanford Site in 1977. Although uranium enrichment and plutonium breeding were slowly phased out, the nuclear legacy left an indelible mark on the Tri-Cities. Since World War II, the area had developed from a small farming community to a booming "Atomic Frontier" to a powerhouse of the nuclear-industrial complex. Decades of federal investment created a community of highly skilled scientists and engineers. As a result of this concentration of specialized skills, the Hanford Site was able to diversify its operations to include scientific research, test facilities, and commercial nuclear power production.

*The Department of Energy and its contractors offer tours of the site. Sixty public tours, each five hours long, were planned for 2009. The tours are free, require advance reservation via the department's web site, and are limited to U.S. citizens at least 18 years of age.*

*Environmental concerns* 
The Hanford Reach of the Columbia River, where radioactivity was released from 1944 to 1971A huge volume of water from the Columbia River was required to dissipate the heat produced by Hanford's nuclear reactors. From 1944 to 1971, pump systems drew cooling water from the river and, after treating this water for use by the reactors, returned it to the river. Before being released back into the river, the used water was held in large tanks known as retention basin for up to six hours. Longer-lived isotopes were not affected by this retention, and several terabecquerels entered the river every day. These releases were kept secret by the federal government. Radiation was later measured downstream as far west as the Washington and Oregon coasts.

The plutonium separation process also resulted in the release of radioactive isotopes into the air, which were carried by the wind throughout southeastern Washington and into parts of Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and British Columbia. Beginning in the 1960s, scientists with the U.S. Public Health Service published reports about radioactivity released from Hanford, and there were protests from the health departments of Oregon and Washington.

In response to an article in the Spokane Spokesman Review in September 1985, the Department of Energy announced its intent to declassify environmental records and, in February 1986, released to the public 19,000 pages of previously unavailable historical documents about Hanford's operations. The Washington State Department of Health collaborated with the citizen-led Hanford Health Information Network (HHIN) to publicize data about the health effects of Hanford's operations.

HHIN reports concluded that residents who lived downwind from Hanford or who used the Columbia River downstream were exposed to elevated doses of radiation that placed them at increased risk for various cancers and other diseases. A mass tort lawsuit brought by two thousand Hanford downwinders against the federal government has been in the court system for many years. The first six plaintiffs went to trial in 2005, in a bellwether trial to test the legal issues applying to the remaining plaintiffs in the suit.

On February 15, 2013, Governor Jay Inslee announced a tank storing radioactive waste at the site is leaking liquids on average of 150 to 300 gallons per year. He stressed that the leak poses no immediate heath risk to the public, but said that fact should not be an excuse for not doing anything. On February 22, 2013, the Governor stated that "6 more tanks at Hanford site" than previously thought were "leaking radioactive waste" As of 2013, there are 177 tanks at Hanford (149 having a single shell). *Older single shell tanks were initially used for storing radioactive liquid waste. The tanks were designed to last 20 years.* By 2005, some liquid waste was transferred from single shell tanks to (safer) double shell tanks. However, a substantial amount of residue remains in the older single shell tanks with one containing an estimated 447,000 gallons of radioactive sludge, for example. It is believed that up to six of these "empty" tanks are leaking. Two tanks are reportedly leaking at a rate of 300 gallons (1,136 liters) per annum each, while the remaining four tanks are leaking at a rate of 15 gallons (57 liters) per year each.

A citizen-led Hanford Advisory Board provides recommendations from community stakeholders, including local and state governments, regional environmental organizations, business interests, and Native American tribes. In recent years, the federal government has spent about $2 billion annually on the Hanford project. About 11,000 workers are on site to consolidate, clean up, and mitigate waste, contaminated buildings, and contaminated soil. Originally scheduled to be complete within thirty years, the cleanup was less than half finished by 2008. Of the four areas that were formally listed as Superfund sites on October 4, 1989, only one has been removed from the list following cleanup.

The most significant challenge at Hanford is stabilizing the 53 million U.S. gallons (204,000 m3) of high-level radioactive waste stored in 177 underground tanks. About a third of these tanks have leaked waste into the soil and groundwater. As of 2008, most of the liquid waste has been transferred to more secure double-shelled tanks; however, 2.8 million U.S. gallons (10,600 m3) of liquid waste, together with 27 million U.S. gallons (100,000 m3) of salt cake and sludge, remains in the single-shelled tanks. That waste was originally scheduled to be removed by 2018.

The revised deadline is 2040. Nearby aquifers contain an estimated 270 billion U.S. gallons (1 billion m3) of contaminated groundwater as a result of the leaks. As of 2008, 1 million U.S. gallons (4,000 m3) of highly radioactive waste is traveling through the groundwater toward the Columbia River. This waste is expected to reach the river in 12 to 50 years if cleanup does not proceed on schedule. The site also includes 25 million cubic feet (710,000 m3) of solid radioactive waste.

*Milestone at world's largest cleanup site: Hanford nuclear basin removed:* 
A sample of purified plutonium was uncovered inside a safe in a waste trench at the site during excavations from 2004 to 2007, and has been dated to approximately the 1940s, making it the second-oldest sample of purified plutonium known to exist. Analyses published in 2009 concluded that the sample originated at Oak Ridge, and was one of several sent to Hanford for optimisation tests of the T-Plant until Hanford could produce its own plutonium. Documents refer to such a sample, belonging to "Watt's group", which was disposed of in its safe when a radiation leak was suspected.

Reports of a radioactive leak in 2013, along with $40 billion already spent to clean up, and an estimated $115 billion more required.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I believe the dems grabbed the blue color for themselves first.


You snooze, you loose. Too bad, so sad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Lukelucy....Lukelucy....Come quick......lovethelake.....isn't being nice or kind to us. She's calling us bad names.....If you are going to be fair, you'll have to come and tell them they aren't being nice. Right?


Don't hold your breath--LL was giving a thumbs up earlier to all the nasties pouring out of KPG's mouth. I guess the righties consider themselves exempt from such standards of behavior.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> and for some - totally rude and obnoxious emotion at that


And for some, they can be proven wrong, but will NEVER admit it and will just keep telling the lie.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I've lived in an oil producing province for most of my life and have never seen anything close to what you describe. Maybe it's your officials working on your behalf that need the wake-up call


I think it is because the oil companies have the mineral rights and they do not care about the people living in the area. Is there anything the local officials can do?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> And for some, they can be proven wrong, but will NEVER admit it and will just keep telling the lie.


That's KPG's favorite tactic--plus a torrent of abuse when someone calls her on her "facts".


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I gave up reading her posts as they never have informative, accurate or factual info in them. Good luck trying to have an intelligent or logical conversation with her.
> 
> You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production.


What part of the following statements do you not understand. The oil is what they are after, because it is more valuable. It takes too much time to build the gas pipelines so they burn it. You need to do more research so you tell fewer lies. Now how long are you going to continue with the lie.

Hydraulic fracturing, hydrofracking or fracking is a new technology used by the energy industry to unlock previously inaccessible supplies of domestic oil and clean-burning natural gas. - See more at: http://dailyresourcehunter.com/what-is-fracking/#sthash.ZvdPscvD.dpuf

Since oil is 30 times more valuable than natural gas, companies are rushing to pull it out of the ground fast, while prices are high. Building the infrastructure to capture the natural gas thats part of oil drilling would take time and money, and companies arent willing to wait or pay.

Roughly 1,500 fires burn above western North Dakota because of the deliberate burning of natural gas by companies rushing to drill for oil without having sufficient pipelines to transport their production. With cheap gas bubbling to the top with expensive oil, the companies do not have an economic incentive to build the necessary gas pipelines, so they flare the excess gas instead.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Check what YOU read. I was discussing fracking for natural gas; who cares what you think someone else was talking about.
> 
> Both WCK and I referred to natural gas fracking articles posted and know what we are talking about. Obviously, you don't.


KPG said, page 70

You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Again you are wrong. Beneficial to the environment? Injecting water, sand and other materials under high pressures into a well to fracture rock is beneficial? This opens up fissures that help oil and natural gas flow out more freely. This process generates wastewater that is often pumped underground as well, in order to get rid of it. Before January 2011, Youngstown, Ohio, which is located on the Marcellus Shale, had never experienced an earthquake, at least not since researchers began observations in 1776.
> However, in December 2010, the Northstar 1 injection well came online to pump wastewater from fracking projects in Pennsylvania into storage deep underground. In the year that followed, seismometers in and around Youngstown recorded 109 earthquakes, the strongest registering a magnitude-3.9 earthquake on Dec. 31, 2011. The well was shut down after the quake.
> Scientists have known for decades that fracking and wastewater injection can trigger earthquakes. For instance, it appears linked with Oklahoma's strongest recorded quake in 2011, as well as a rash of more than 180 minor tremors in Texas between Oct. 30, 2008, and May 31, 2009.
> For instance, the first earthquake recorded in Youngstown occurred 13 days after pumping began, and the tremors ceased shortly after the Ohio Department of Natural Resources shut down the well in December 2011. In addition, dips in earthquake activity lined up with Memorial Day, the Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving and other times when injection at the well was temporarily stopped.
> ...


It appears linked and actually being caused by fracking are 2 different things. As far as the earthquake in Oklahoma in 2011, researchers say it seems unlikely that fracking had anything to with the quake. There is an unstable situation in Oklahoma and it's one reason why oil and gas are available here in the first place. Fracking has been going on in Oklahoma for 30 years, without increased earthquake activity. This quake didn't happen in an area of active oil and gas exploration. Info is from Randy Keller, director of Oklahoma Geological Survey. Most of the earthquakes here in Oklahoma are barely felt. We just had one over the weekend as a matter of fact.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She really is a moron isn't she? She doesn't even bother to check the facts and just spouts her stupidity.... :roll:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It appears linked and actually being caused by fracking are 2 different things. As far as the earthquake in Oklahoma in 2011, researchers say it seems unlikely that fracking had anything to with the quake. There is an unstable situation in Oklahoma and it's one reason why oil and gas are available here in the first place. Fracking has been going on in Oklahoma for 30 years, without increased earthquake activity. This quake didn't happen in an area of active oil and gas exploration. Info is from Randy Keller, director of Oklahoma Geological Survey. Most of the earthquakes here in Oklahoma are barely felt. We just had one over the weekend as a matter of fact.


Scientists have known for decades that fracking and waste water injection can trigger earthquakes. You want to split hairs and say linked
or being caused by, go ahead. I am way more cautious than that. Disturb the rock formations underground, where all the pipelines and gas lines are located and then live above that, you go ahead. I think it is dangerous.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It appears linked and actually being caused by fracking are 2 different things. As far as the earthquake in Oklahoma in 2011, researchers say it seems unlikely that fracking had anything to with the quake. There is an unstable situation in Oklahoma and it's one reason why oil and gas are available here in the first place. Fracking has been going on in Oklahoma for 30 years, without increased earthquake activity. This quake didn't happen in an area of active oil and gas exploration. Info is from Randy Keller, director of Oklahoma Geological Survey. Most of the earthquakes here in Oklahoma are barely felt. We just had one over the weekend as a matter of fact.


Barely felt--for now. How large an earthquake will it take to make you and others decide that the oil left is just not worth pursuing? Estimate vary, but it's generally believed that there are only twenty-five to fifty years' worth of oil left in the ground--and very little of that is easily accessible. Is it sensible to turn our planet into a toxic sludge heap and have ground rocking and rolling under our feet for an energy source that's going to run out in less than a century?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> You snooze, you loose. Too bad, so sad.


It's a case of sour grapes, in my opinion. After all, even the GOP can't enjoy folks associating them with a color that (according to Jokim) is a symbol of totalitarian regimes like the USSR, China, and Saddam's Iraq.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Scientists have known for decades that fracking and waste water injection can trigger earthquakes. You want to split hairs and say linked
> or being caused by, go ahead. I am way more cautious than that. Disturb the rock formations underground, where all the pipelines and gas lines are located and then live above that, you go ahead. I think it is dangerous.


You were the one that stated the Oklahoma 2011 quake appears linked to fracking. I said it wasn't linked. The quakes in OK come from the fault line, none have been proven to come from fracking.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You were the one that stated the Oklahoma 2011 quake appears linked to fracking. I said it wasn't linked. The quakes in OK come from the fault line, none have been proven to come from fracking.


And how many have been proven to not come from fracking? This is a very interesting read. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active. If this lady had been sitting where she usually sat, she would probably be dead. How bad does it have to get before you start to question the fracking? Maybe one day it will be your home, then maybe you will have some questions.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/03/does-fracking-cause-earthquakes-wastewater-dewatering


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> And how many have been proven to not come from fracking? This is a very interesting read. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active. If this lady had been sitting where she usually sat, she would probably be dead. How bad does it have to get before you start to question the fracking? Maybe one day it will be your home, then maybe you will have some questions.


Exactly right, NJG. How far are we prepared to go to get those last precious drops of oil? My guess is (barring something horrific like an earthquake-triggered tsunami that kills hundreds of thousands--and even that might not change some people's minds) that the oil corporations won't quit until the price of production becomes prohibitive.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And government will determine who gets how much, let us be clear on that. How does that equate with social justice? Obama is so big on social justice, I wonder if he would live like the rest of the people. I think not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:
The left worships at the altar of 'social justice', but what they practice is 'my way or the highway'! :thumbdown:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are hilarious! I didn't tell you what I know, I used what MIT and other scientists proved out. If you believe the research, you agree with MIT and me. Perfect - too bad you don't understand yourself and what YOU posted though.
> 
> I've lived through many earthquakes and the research and studies proved fracking is safe now and getting more safe with better study and technology exactly as the research and I said prior.


There are university studies that prove that fracking is safe but they have been squelched or ignored. I believe there was a study done by the U. of Buffalo that found fracking safe. It did not get wide publicity. Hmmm . . ..


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> The left worships at the altar of 'social justice', but what they practice is 'my way or the highway'! :thumbdown:


Sorry, Jokim. Wrong. I was no fan of Reagan, Bush, or the Little Shrub--but neither I nor anyone I know agitated for him to be impeached, driven out of office, arrested by renegade truckers and tried in a kangaroo court, or have a bomb dropped on his head. I've heard your cronies wishing for all these things, and it's absolutely disgusting.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Jokim. Wrong. I was no fan of Reagan, Bush, or the Little Shrub--but neither I nor anyone I know agitated for him to be impeached, driven out of office, arrested by renegade truckers and tried in a kangaroo court, or have a bomb dropped on his head. I've heard your cronies wishing for all these things, and it's absolutely disgusting.


I've heard calls for impeachment, a perfectly legal process, for this president, but have not heard about any proposed violent actions. On the other hand, I have heard of people calling for the killing of Geo. W. Bush and other violent acts when he was in office and the left wasn't protesting it or wasn't even shocked.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> The left worships at the altar of 'social justice', but what they practice is 'my way or the highway'! :thumbdown:


I have to disagree with that. I would call it the safe way or the highway. The right worships big business and big money. Money buys anything they want as the rest of us sit and wait for it to trickle down. Only problem is there are now so many waiting for that trickle, it never happens.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I've heard calls for impeachment, a perfectly legal process, for this president, but have not heard about any proposed violent actions. On the other hand, I have heard of people calling for the killing of Geo. W. Bush and other violent acts when he was in office and the left wasn't protesting it or wasn't even shocked.


If you read these posts all the violent actions are right here in print besides everywhere else. There has never been a president disrespected like President Obama is.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> There are university studies that prove that fracking is safe but they have been squelched or ignored. I believe there was a study done by the U. of Buffalo that found fracking safe. It did not get wide publicity. Hmmm . . ..


All depends on who ordered and is paying for the study.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> What part of the following statements do you not understand.


You don't understand how to follow a conversation. My post you quoted referred to Nussa, not you. You are one very confused person.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

November 2012

The State University of New York at Buffalo announced Monday that it was closing down its newly formed Shale Resources and Society Institute, which was devoted to the study of hydraulic fracturing, citing a cloud of uncertainty over its work.

In a letter addressed to the university community, President Satish K. Tripathi said he was closing the institute after an internal assessment that determined that it lacked sufficient faculty presence, that it was not consistent enough in disclosing its financial interests and that the credibility of its research was compromised because of questions over its financing.

The University of Texas at Austin is conducting a similar review of a university fracking study released earlier this year. One of the professors who fostered the study did not disclose that he was on the board of a gasoline company.

The controversies over fracking research tap into concerns in academia about the growing influence of corporate money in research especially at a time when government grants are declining.

The University at Buffalo, a major research center with the most students in the State University of New York system, came under pressure from professors, students and some SUNY trustees to close its shale institute, with a petition with more than 10,500 signatures.

The people who signed the petition feel that their public university needs to remain a public university and not a mouthpiece for corporations, said Jim Holstun, an English professor at the university who, early on, questioned the institutes practices.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/nyregion/suny-buffalo-will-end-controversial-fracking-institute.html


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It appears linked and actually being caused by fracking are 2 different things. As far as the earthquake in Oklahoma in 2011, researchers say it seems unlikely that fracking had anything to with the quake. There is an unstable situation in Oklahoma and it's one reason why oil and gas are available here in the first place. Fracking has been going on in Oklahoma for 30 years, without increased earthquake activity. This quake didn't happen in an area of active oil and gas exploration. Info is from Randy Keller, director of Oklahoma Geological Survey. Most of the earthquakes here in Oklahoma are barely felt. We just had one over the weekend as a matter of fact.


But, of course, NJG knows best because she read it somewhere, proof of what the libs want to project. Surprise!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Barely felt--for now. How large an earthquake will it take to make you and others decide that the oil left is just not worth pursuing? Estimate vary, but it's generally believed that there are only twenty-five to fifty years' worth of oil left in the ground--and very little of that is easily accessible. Is it sensible to turn our planet into a toxic sludge heap and have ground rocking and rolling under our feet for an energy source that's going to run out in less than a century?


How many years is it going to take for you to understand the majority of fracking for retrieval is for natural gas and not oil?

20, 30 or never?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Scientists have known for decades that fracking and waste water injection can trigger earthquakes. You want to split hairs and say linked
> or being caused by, go ahead. I am way more cautious than that. Disturb the rock formations underground, where all the pipelines and gas lines are located and then live above that, you go ahead. I think it is dangerous.


No proof, and no facts, just your liberal opinion.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You were the one that stated the Oklahoma 2011 quake appears linked to fracking. I said it wasn't linked. The quakes in OK come from the fault line, none have been proven to come from fracking.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> KPG said, page 70
> 
> You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production.


Thank you for repeating my words!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> And how many have been proven to not come from fracking? This is a very interesting read. This fault is like an extinct volcano. It should never have been active. If this lady had been sitting where she usually sat, she would probably be dead. How bad does it have to get before you start to question the fracking? Maybe one day it will be your home, then maybe you will have some questions.
> 
> http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/03/does-fracking-cause-earthquakes-wastewater-dewatering


OMG . linking to motherjones????? Priceless . now there is real solid proof. :XD: I'd faster believe Mother Goose.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> But, of course, NJG knows best because she read it somewhere, proof of what the libs want to project. Surprise!


It might be a good idea for you to do a little more reading. I get my info from reading and listening. Where do you get yours from, Fox News.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for repeating my words!


I will repeat your lies anytime, it just proves how much you lie.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> There are university studies that prove that fracking is safe but they have been squelched or ignored. I believe there was a study done by the U. of Buffalo that found fracking safe. It did not get wide publicity. Hmmm . . ..


They'll never get any exposure until a Republ is in the White House or a Democratic who truly desires to get America off foreign oil and produce actual jobs, not theorems and rhetoric.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

NJG said:


> If you read these posts all the violent actions are right here in print besides everywhere else. There has never been a president disrespected like President Obama is.


Really!... I could show your many many more.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I've heard calls for impeachment, a perfectly legal process, for this president, but have not heard about any proposed violent actions. On the other hand, I have heard of people calling for the killing of Geo. W. Bush and other violent acts when he was in office and the left wasn't protesting it or wasn't even shocked.


Agreed! I've never called for any of the things she claimed and barely remember anyone left of center on this thread doing so either. Another lie to be taken as worthless.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG . linking to motherjones????? Priceless . now there is real solid proof. :XD: I'd faster believe Mother Goose.


Well why don't you try reading some of these other links then. Why don't you just give these people a call and tell them since MotherJones did a story about their home, it must not be true, and see what they tell you. They definitely have the right to question what fracking has done to their home.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Oklahoma-s-5-6-quake-largest-in-growing-trend-2324248.php#photo-1830356

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059967722

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2011/11/06/unexplained-earthquakes-increase-in-oklahoma

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oklahoma-adopts-california-style-quake-precautions-21070917

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-residents-share-earthquake-experiences/article/3620740


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> But, of course, NJG knows best because she read it somewhere, proof of what the libs want to project. Surprise!


Well tell me KPG, where do you get your information?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> November 2012
> 
> The State University of New York at Buffalo announced Monday that it was closing down its newly formed Shale Resources and Society Institute, which was devoted to the study of hydraulic fracturing, citing a cloud of uncertainty over its work.
> 
> ...


Politics trumps economic reality, again! :thumbdown: Their initial findings were that fracking is safe to the environment. Then the left got involved and discredited the researchers, but not the research. Truth will out.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Politics trumps economic reality, again! :thumbdown: Their initial findings were that fracking is safe to the environment. Then the left got involved and discredited the researchers, but not the research. Truth will out.


No, they questioned where the money was coming from and the people who signed the petition feel that their public university needs to remain a public university and not a mouthpiece for corporations. It's that big money thing again. I'll pay for your research as long as you research tells me what I want to hear.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Here is something quite appropriate for this forum.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Agreed! I've never called for any of the things she claimed and barely remember anyone left of center on this thread doing so either. Another lie to be taken as worthless.


"Barely"? So you do admit to remembering...at least you're honest about some things.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How many years is it going to take for you to understand the majority of fracking for retrieval is for natural gas and not oil?
> 
> 20, 30 or never?


Wiggle wiggle...your preferred method for evading your misstatements never changes, KPG.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> I have to disagree with that. I would call it the safe way or the highway. The right worships big business and big money. Money buys anything they want as the rest of us sit and wait for it to trickle down. Only problem is there are now so many waiting for that trickle, it never happens.


That is precisely your problem; you sit and wait for the trickle down. Get off your butt and initiate your own earnings!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> If you read these posts all the violent actions are right here in print besides everywhere else. There has never been a president disrespected like President Obama is.


I have to disagree with you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Politics trumps economic reality, again! :thumbdown: Their initial findings were that fracking is safe to the environment. Then the left got involved and discredited the researchers, but not the research. Truth will out.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Here is something quite appropriate for this forum.


You are one sick puppy. Disgusting. Probably from the dailykos or similiar.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wiggle wiggle...your preferred method for evading your misstatements never changes, KPG.


Why don't you just stop talking. I didn't 'goof' or 'misstate' anything now, recently or prior; it is you twisting anything I or anyone else says to suit your purpose. No one buys it so you are wasting your time and space.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why don't you just stop talking. I didn't 'goof' or 'misstate' anything now, recently or prior; it is you twisting anything I or anyone else says to suit your purpose. No one buys it so you are wasting your time and space.


Getting testy, aren't we? This has been going on for hours--why not just admit you made a mistake?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Getting testy, aren't we? This has been going on for hours--why not just admit you made a mistake?


Because I didn't. Simple enough for even you to understand. Or would you prefer I post it again and again so you can get it?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Because I didn't. Simple enough for even you to understand. Or would you prefer I post it again and again so you can get it?


Why not? Let everyone else hear what a pompous windbag sounds like.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You know, you're perfectly right to believe whatever you want, but this is false equivalency to the max. The media is guilty of it, the Republicans are guilty of it, and too many Democrats are guilty of it.
> 
> There is NOT an equal amount of rancor on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of lies and deceit on both sides; there is NOT an equal amount of malfeasance and corruption on both sides; etc. Overwhelmingly, the Republicans bear the brunt of blame for everything you and I -- and others -- find most objectionable about Washington and our government. (Well, except for the Obama-haters who are a delusional breed unto themselves.)
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am afraid you are right.


LL, why don't you scold her (LTL) on name-calling? You're afraid she's right and she uses name-calling in everything she posts? I can't believe you people. You cry about the naughty lefties and use every nasty name and disparaging remark in almost every post. BTW I don't think you started this site.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That is precisely your problem; you sit and wait for the trickle down. Get off your butt and initiate your own earnings!


I am retired, and you know exactly what I meant by my statement. Instead you turn it around to make it look like I lazy and sitting on my butt. How dare you be such a b---- to me when you don't even know me, how dare you. Someday you will be knocked off your Holier Than Thow Perch.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Susan, Patty, Nussa, Cheeky, Rocky, NJG, and all you "lefties":
I just LOVE your posts. They're so informative and ALWAYS correct! No kidding!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are one sick puppy. Disgusting. Probably from the dailykos or similiar.


Wrong again, it was on Facebook.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> I am retired, and you know exactly what I meant by my statement. Instead you turn it around to make it look like I lazy and sitting on my butt. How dare you be such a b---- to me when you don't even know me, how dare you. Someday you will be knocked off your Holier Than Thow Perch.


Everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled . . . .she loves the book it comes from. . .


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> I am retired, and you know exactly what I meant by my statement. Instead you turn it around to make it look like I lazy and sitting on my butt. How dare you be such a b---- to me when you don't even know me, how dare you. Someday you will be knocked off your Holier Than Thow Perch.


She has a great chance to make an apology for making such a cruel statement, but I bet she won't. 
Lukelucy, scold your cohorts!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Susan, Patty, Nussa, Cheeky, Rocky, NJG, and all you "lefties":
> I just LOVE your posts. They're so informative and ALWAYS correct! No kidding!


Thanks, Al. We do learn a lot from each other's posts!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Al. We do learn a lot from each other's posts!


I just figured that if Lukelucy can deem all the posts from her comrades correct, so can I! Our side is always correct, too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just figured that if Lukelucy can deem all the posts from her comrades correct, so can I! Our side is always correct, too.


But of course!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh-oh.....it's coming crashing down around your ears isn't it KPG? You always start acting this way when you've lost control of the comments, and someone bests you. I've seen it happen a few times already.... Just take it like a big girl....you'll be up misstating & twisting the facts again in no time..... 


knitpresentgifts said:


> Why don't you just stop talking. I didn't 'goof' or 'misstate' anything now, recently or prior; it is you twisting anything I or anyone else says to suit your purpose. No one buys it so you are wasting your time and space.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm with you.....we're right and they're wrong.... :thumbup:


alcameron said:


> I just figured that if Lukelucy can deem all the posts from her comrades correct, so can I! Our side is always correct, too.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. :-D But even in the bluest of blue states, the citizens are restless and want him out too (not that he has done anything in his fraudulent position anyway).


wrong again


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh-oh.....it's coming crashing down around your ears isn't it KPG? You always start acting this way when you've lost control of the comments, and someone bests you. I've seen it happen a few times already.... Just take it like a big girl....you'll be up misstating & twisting the facts again in no time.....


So true *sigh*


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Your exact words, KPG:
> 
> "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I suppose it's wrong of me to enjoy seeing KPG get her comeuppance. But I can't help it......she's been such a callus, nasty & cruel person to everyone who hasn't agreed with her, that something like this was bound to happen. Maybe it'll teach her a lesson. 
Not fun being told off is it KPG? Now you know how you made many of us feel when you were talking down to us. 
But you had to take it that one step to far with NJG didn't you? Which was so totally uncalled for.
Maybe you need anger management classes?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> No, they questioned where the money was coming from and the people who signed the petition feel that their public university needs to remain a public university and not a mouthpiece for corporations. It's that big money thing again. I'll pay for your research as long as you research tells me what I want to hear.


Are you saying that research, done by universities, partly funded by private corporations, is compromised? Our lives would be much poorer and at a much lower standard of living if research money, from corporations, to academia were to dry up. 'Big money', as you disdainfully refer to it, has done much to improve life in the US and in the rest of the world. In medicine alone, strides have been made that helped save countless lives in the poorest countries of the world. Our every day life has become much easier with the conveniences of appliances used to cook and clean, etc.. What is your hang up on 'Big money'? There is 'trickle down' that results from big business: taxes, ancillary businesses that are created as a result of it, employment, wages spent on goods and services, etc... If you think there isn't enough of the 'trickle down' taking place these days, perhaps it's because there isn't much business going on these days due to over-regulation and restrictive dictates by this ever-encroaching-on-our-freedoms government. Free enterprise, not socialist government, is the solution for an ailing economy!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No proof, and no facts, just your liberal opinion.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Really!... I could show your many many more.


Great photos, Galinipper! :thumbup: 
I also like the Voltaire quote!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That is precisely your problem; you sit and wait for the trickle down. Get off your butt and initiate your own earnings!


Exactly what I was thinking, KPG! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Dirty tricks by republicans in New Jersey????? The mayor of Fort Lee, most affected by the closing of the traffic lanes, refused to indorse Christy for governor. Christys friend from high school, David wildstein, who gave the order for the shutdown, resigned effective on Jan 1. Christy said he knows nothing about those matters, but hey the buck stops with you Christy. You give appointments to people like that and then you want to run for president. I don't think so.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/port_authority_official_says_gwb_lane_closure_process_was_unprecedented.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/09/port-authority-chief-to-testify-on-unannounced-gwb-lane-closures/

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/25/new-jersey-panel-seeks-answers-on-gwb-closures/


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I chose not to answer your redundant question.
> 
> I thought that the parody regarding the comparison of forced coffee drinking by the Obama Administration was clever, simple and easy enough for the Obamacultists to understand. Guess you didn't get it, sorry. I thought the cartoon format would be good.


I didn't bother to look it up on youtube. Have no idea what you are talking about and why you can't answer a simple question. What religious rights have you lost and who took them away from you?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Here is something quite appropriate for this forum.


Very clever poster, but will you be the judge of the 'Christ' in the Christian?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Dirty tricks by republicans in New Jersey????? The mayor of Fort Lee, most affected by the closing of the traffic lanes, refused to indorse Christy for governor. Christys friend from high school, David wildstein, who gave the order for the shutdown, resigned effective on Jan 1. Christy said he knows nothing about those matters, but hey the buck stops with you Christy. You give appointments to people like that and then you want to run for president. I don't think so.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/port_authority_official_says_gwb_lane_closure_process_was_unprecedented.html
> 
> ...


That was unbelievable! The GW bridge is the busiest bridge in the NY-NJ area. Really a dumb move.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Dirty tricks by republicans in New Jersey????? The mayor of Fort Lee, most affected by the closing of the traffic lanes, refused to indorse Christy for governor. Christys friend from high school, David wildstein, who gave the order for the shutdown, resigned effective on Jan 1. Christy said he knows nothing about those matters, but hey the buck stops with you Christy. You give appointments to people like that and then you want to run for president. I don't think so.
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/port_authority_official_says_gwb_lane_closure_process_was_unprecedented.html
> 
> ...


You need to worry about what o is doing right now instead of Christy. o is the problem right now. Three years will take care of Christy. You need to watch your blood pressure. You have been upset for days. Not good for you to be so upset. Take a break.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> But, of course, NJG knows best because she read it somewhere, proof of what the libs want to project. Surprise!


Projecting is your problem exclusively around here. Time to call your shrink again, KPG.
You all know not to take anything this macadamia says as truth, right? She wouldn't know the truth if it was standing naked in front of her.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need to worry about what o is doing right now instead of Christy. o is the problem right now. Three years will take care of Christy. You need to watch your blood pressure. You have been upset for days. Not good for you to be so upset. Take a break.


She has every right to be upset after being blasted very unkindly by KPG. The "lefties" are always accused of nastiness when there's plenty coming from the other side. Her attack was particularly demeaning and cruel. It's beyond me how KPG says what she does while having Bible quotes under her name. That's why people make disparaging remarks about Christians.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. :-D But even in the bluest of blue states, the citizens are restless and want him out too (not that he has done anything in his fraudulent position anyway).


How wrong you are again. For those of us that live here, we know differently. Keep posting, you are looking dumber all the time.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I guess foul, lazy minds think alike.


Jokim said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, KPG! :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> She has every right to be upset after being blasted very unkindly by KPG. The "lefties" are always accused of nastiness when there's plenty coming from the other side. Her attack was particularly demeaning and cruel. It's beyond me how KPG says what she does while having Bible quotes under her name. That's why people make disparaging remarks about Christians.


KPG is a buffoon. She knows nothing and has been trolling NJG since she started posting here. 
Yes, KPG was once again out of line. But what else is new?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are one sick puppy. Disgusting. Probably from the dailykos or similiar.


You fit the bill perfectly, KPG. All witch and not a Christian
bone in your body or a Christian thought in your head. You should change your signature, it does not become you.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks like KPG left Jokim behind to clean up her mess. I've also noticed all her supporters left about the time she started going off the deep end, on page 71.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wonder how much could have been achieved if we had put all that WASTED 'green energy money' into replacing the scrubbers on coal burning furnaces? But nooooooo Obama wanted to kill an industry, cause layoffs and waste billions of dollars on companies that went bankrupt.
> 
> I seem to remember that Obama did not acknowledge the BP oil spill for over a week. So one should not be surprised that those 11 men on the oil rig that died were ignored like the murdered men in Benghazi
> 
> But then again, it is the same Obamacultists that believe living in Minnesota (that is not part of Obamacare's Marketplace) is enrolling in Obamacare. That getting subsidies that they do not need to survive is okay with them. The lack of pride is appalling


Did you shoot that possum for dinner yet, LTL?
You know nothing of Minnesota or the wonderful people who reside here. Who are you to decide who needs what and why. Such a harpy. I feel sorry for your spouse if you are even married,


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Really like your avatar BrattyPatty...... :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Looks like KPG left Jokim behind to clean up her mess. I've also noticed all her supporters left about the time she started going off the deep end, on page 71.


That is nothing new for her,Nussa. When she is proved wrong, she runs away and hides.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Really like your avatar BrattyPatty...... :thumbup:


Thanks! It suits our balmy weather here in the Upper Midwest, don't you think?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:
> The left worships at the altar of 'social justice', but what they practice is 'my way or the highway'! :thumbdown:


Bull Feathers!! :thumbdown: What makes you think that all on the left are athiest or agnostic. I just see Christianity much differently than those on the far right.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Minor water spills are exaggerated into major disasters by the left to suit their purposes. Part of their MO. :thumbdown:


So the horror stories we have read about Arkansas and other states are false? CNN lied to us? Fox lied to us?
Hmmm, me thinks you are not correct in your statement.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky!! I am sorry I missed you! Good to see you back. As you can see, KPG is still lying and misleading, LTL is still pi--ing and moaning over Benghazi, and thinks she knows more about Minnesota than Minnesotans do.....


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes it does....burrr.....lol. I'm sure getting tired of the below zero temps we've been having here for the last 2 weeks.


BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks! It suits our balmy weather here in the Upper Midwest, don't you think?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Yes it does....burrr.....lol. I'm sure getting tired of the below zero temps we've been having here for the last 2 weeks.


It got down to -32 here last night. We reached a high of 5 today, LOL. The furnace is working overtime. At least it hasn't been too windy.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> I am retired, and you know exactly what I meant by my statement. Instead you turn it around to make it look like I lazy and sitting on my butt. How dare you be such a b---- to me when you don't even know me, how dare you. Someday you will be knocked off your Holier Than Thow Perch.


Oh, NJG, how very typical of you. You know exactly what I meant by my statement and instead you call me a liar, a b---ch and an idiot in a manner of minutes.

You are old enough to know better and to parrot your very words, *you don't even know me, how dare you.*

Go ahead and talk to your Liberal buddies trying to impress with your ignorant and vile posts while insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you or who isn't a Democrat; you are a benighted soul with no filter nor class.

I expect nothing but crass comments from you and you don't disappoint.

Enjoy 'thow' perch. (you couldn't even get that correct)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, NJG, how very typical of you. You know exactly what I meant by my statement and instead you call me a liar, a b---ch and an idiot in a manner of minutes.
> 
> You are old enough to know better and to parrot your very words, *you don't even know me, how dare you.*
> 
> ...


Same old same old......give it up KPG. You have no credibility. You could only wish to have the knowledge and class that NJG has. Once again, you are looking really dumb. As far as crass goes, you hold the title. It is your MO to bully and gang up on her and to get people to the boiling point. You are one sick witch.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, KPG! :thumbup: :thumbup:


She complains the loudest and most vocal of all the Libs and _always _against the business owner, employer, entrepreneur, corporation, venture capitalist, wealthy person or Repub, but is herself uninformed about business, the economy and the marketplace with no ambition or initiative, only with an entitled and poor attitude.

You cannot help people who refuse to help themselves.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Isn't going to work KPG......you have totally humiliated yourself here, and no amount of back tracking on your part is going to fix it......An apology to NJG would be a good start. How about showing us that you can admit when you're wrong?

Awe....and I see you didn't want to leave the rest of us out in your back peddling....You are so, exactly what you claim NJG & the rest of us are......You're words speak volumes about your character....



knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, NJG, how very typical of you. You know exactly what I meant by my statement and instead you call me a liar, a b---ch and an idiot in a manner of minutes.
> 
> You are old enough to know better and to parrot your very words, *you don't even know me, how dare you.*
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She complains the loudest and most vocal of all the Libs and _always _against the business owner, employer, entrepreneur, corporation, venture capitalist, wealthy person or Repub, but is herself uninformed about business, the economy and the marketplace with no ambition or initiative, only with an entitled and poor attitude.
> 
> You cannot help people who refuse to help themselves.


You make that very obvious. Go back to your shrink and get something done about that lying problem you have.
:evil: Funny, I found her post to be very true in every word she posted.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Christy said he knows nothing about those matters, but hey the buck stops with you Christy. You give appointments to people like that and then you want to run for president. I don't think so.


Why the heck not? Obama NEVER takes responsibility for his failures and ALWAYS claims he knows NOTHING about any scandal or matter that turned against him, yet Obama claims the buck stop with himself. He ran for president and failed in his every venture to date (his one success - passing Obamacare illegally is now dead), so I'm pretty certain Christy can top him in his run for the Presidency if he so desires.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Isn't going to work KPG......you have totally humiliated yourself here, and no amount of back tracking on your part is going to fix it......An apology to NJG would be a good start. How about showing us that you can admit when you're wrong?
> 
> Awe....and I see you didn't want to leave the rest of us out in your back peddling....You are so, exactly what you claim NJG & the rest of us are......You're words speak volumes about your character....


What character?/


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Very clever poster, but will you be the judge of the 'Christ' in the Christian?


Can you imagine????? I deserve an apology - but will never receive one. No loss and no expectation means no disappointment. Life is good, God is great!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why the heck not? Obama NEVER takes responsibility for his failures and ALWAYS claims he knows NOTHING about any scandal or matter that turned against him, yet Obama claims the buck stop with himself. He ran for president and failed in his every venture to date (his one success - passing Obamacare illegally is now dead), so I'm pretty certain Christy can top him in his run for the Presidency if he so desires.


You are not Obama. He has much higher ethics and standards than you. Stop trying to spin things, you are looking dumber by the post. Now you say that the ACA was passed illegally? Are you calling SCOTUS"S liars and thugs, too? You are a sad piece of work. I have to laugh at the way you all think it will go away. It won't.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

If that were true (which it isn't) about President Obama never taking responsibility, how does it feel to know you could be his twin in that department?


knitpresentgifts said:


> Why the heck not? Obama NEVER takes responsibility for his failures and ALWAYS claims he knows NOTHING about any scandal or matter that turned against him, yet Obama claims the buck stop with himself. He ran for president and failed in his every venture to date (his one success - passing Obamacare illegally is now dead), so I'm pretty certain Christy can top him in his run for the Presidency if he so desires.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I think if anyone can't stand up to the abuse and name calling they need to unwatch. I have been called all kind of names but I take them as who is doing the name calling. If I was getting all emotional and upset it would be time for me to bow out. Some on here need to bow out if it is getting to rough for them. Not worth having a stroke over.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> If that were true (which it isn't) about President Obama never taking responsibility, how does it feel to know you could be his twin in that department?


Christy can top Obama? Only in a fools mind. You said the same about Romney and once again, you were completely wrong.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think if anyone can't stand up to the abuse and name calling they need to unwatch. I have been called all kind of names but I take them as who is doing the name calling. If I was getting all emotional and upset it would be time for me to bow out. Some on here need to bow out if it is getting to rough for them. Not worth having a stroke over.


You are right, CB. KPG is not worth belching over either.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think if anyone can't stand up to the abuse and name calling they need to unwatch. I have been called all kind of names but I take them as who is doing the name calling. If I was getting all emotional and upset it would be time for me to bow out. Some on here need to bow out if it is getting to rough for them. Not worth having a stroke over.


 :thumbup: I agree. The names I have been called are deplorable but so are those who said them, so the names have no impact or meaning to me. Doesn't make the insulters correct, just hateful. Of course, now, I don't read most of the Libs posts, so I no longer hear all the names the Libs call others or me anyway. Plus, nothing an idiot says phases me in the least as you just mentioned.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you imagine????? I deserve an apology - but will never receive one. No loss and no expectation means no disappointment. Life is good, God is great!


No you do not deserve an apology. You badgered her relentlessly. I agree wholeheartedly with her response to you. At least she is honest.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I agree. The names I have been called are deplorable but so are those who said them, so the names have no impact or meaning to me. Doesn't make the insulters correct, just hateful.


Poor you. Go and do your act in FF. "I could have died a thousand deaths...." Someone there might feel sorry for you or maybe even believe you. But I know you for who and what you really are, as most of us do.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Then why don't you do what CB said, unwatch (her word, not mine). But you can't help yourself can you? I don't know how many times you've said you don't read our posts.....Yet, here you are! Giving everyone your bleeding heart act. Face it KPG.....you've lost face, and neither Jokim nor any of your other friends can take back the foolish things you've said.

I'll bet if you were nice to people, they'd be nice to you. I have found that usually works in life. But you would have to be sincere. But I don't know if anyone here would believe you anymore. But you could try it in life in general...... Good luck with that.... :thumbup:



knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: I agree. The names I have been called are deplorable but so are those who said them, so the names have no impact or meaning to me. Doesn't make the insulters correct, just hateful. Of course, now, I don't read most of the Libs posts, so I no longer hear all the names the Libs call others or me anyway. Plus, nothing an idiot says phases me in the least as you just mentioned.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No you do not deserve an apology. You badgered her relentlessly. I agree wholeheartedly with her response to you. At least she is honest.


I'm sorry I just read this post of yours.

Oh, ya, I certainly badgered NJG by repeating what SHE said and adding that initiative is warranted instead of sitting and waiting for a handout.

She is nothing if not at least dishonest as are you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So, do you do nothing but sit on your butt all day and collect your welfare check, and food stamps? That's pretty much what you said to NJG. So if you said it, it certainly wouldn't be out of line for me to ask you the same question, right?.....At least I didn't assume you do, I'm polite enough to ask.

I'll save you the trouble of asking me.....Nope, we've never needed them.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry I just read this post of yours.
> 
> Oh, ya, I certainly badgered NJG by repeating what SHE said and adding that initiative is warranted instead of sitting and waiting for a handout.
> 
> She is nothing if not at least dishonest as are you.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Check your facts. Fracking is for both.
> 
> "Hydraulic fracturing is the fracturing of rock by a pressurized liquid. Some hydraulic fractures form naturallycertain veins or dikes are examples. Induced hydraulic fracturing or hydrofracturing, commonly known as fracking, is a technique in which typically water is mixed with sand and chemicals, and the mixture is injected at high pressure into a wellbore to create small fractures (typically less than 1mm), along which fluids such as gas, petroleum, uranium-bearing solution,[1] and brine water may migrate to the well. Hydraulic pressure is removed from the well, then small grains of proppant (sand or aluminium oxide) hold these fractures open once the rock achieves equilibrium. The technique is very common in wells for shale gas, tight gas, tight oil, and coal seam gas[2][3] and hard rock wells. This well stimulation is usually conducted once in the life of the well and greatly enhances fluid removal and well productivity, but there has been an increasing trend towards multiple hydraulic fracturing as production declines. A different technique where only acid is injected is referred to as acidizing."
> 
> As of 2010, 60% of all new oil and gas wells in the world were being fracked.


******************

Nussa's link specified natural gas and that is what I was referring to and what KPG responded to.

Fracking isn't ideal in all situations but neither is it as bad as some claim. Technology has provided major improvements to the process, but if not used properly, can cause a lot of damage just like any other process. Projects should be evaluated on their own merits, project specs clearly defined and operators held accountable for any negligence or failure to comply with specs.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2877477/posts

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/coal-oil-gas/top-10-myths-about-natural-gas-drilling-6386593#slide-7


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

NJG said:


> That is the problem with the oil companies. They break or bend the rules as needed with no worry about the environment.


Then that is a problem with officials and regulators not doing the job they are paid for and in not enforcing your laws. In my experience, most well established oil companies will not deliberately wreck havoc with the community. They have employees that live and work in the community as well.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

NJG said:


> I think it is because the oil companies have the mineral rights and they do not care about the people living in the area. Is there anything the local officials can do?


In Canada very few mineral rights are owned by individuals or corporations; most is owned by the appropriate province, some are federally owned. Oil companies get "rights" to the resources and pay a royalty on the production. Most oil companies have employees based in the communities they operate in, they have community liason departments - they care because it is to their benefit and their shareholder's benefit to care. It is costly for them to break the rules and it would be difficult to retain good employees. That doesn't mean that mistakes don't happen or that people don't make bad decisions - but if/when that happens, it needs to be dealt with. Why bother having regulations and officials if they aren't enforced? Make them accountable


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm sorry I just read this post of yours.
> 
> Oh, ya, I certainly badgered NJG by repeating what SHE said and adding that initiative is warranted instead of sitting and waiting for a handout.
> 
> She is nothing if not at least dishonest as are you.


She is a lot more than that. You can't see beyond that large ego of yours to notice. I am not a dishonest person.
Stop projecting your faults on others. It's old and moldy.

Ah ya, it was the many weeks of your meanness and just plain bitchiness that led up to this. NJG posts links to back up her comments unlike you who just let's any lie roll off of that split tongue of yours. Then if you can't face the truth (as if you would even recognize the truth) you go after the poster and run away.
Like I said, we have seen your act so many times. It still stinks.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Then that is a problem with officials and regulators not doing the job they are paid for and in not enforcing your laws. In my experience, most well established oil companies will not deliberately wreck havoc with the community. They have employees that live and work in the community as well.


Kitty,
Sometimes, the corporations go around the EPA rules and take short cuts to get the job done sooner. That's where the problems begin.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I didn't bother to look it up on youtube. Have no idea what you are talking about and why you can't answer a simple question. What religious rights have you lost and who took them away from you?


Oh as a Hilarycultist you should know when that question was asked it was answered, and it was so long ago what does it matter?

Why can't you watch a simple cartoon? Afraid that it tells the truth?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Are you saying that research, done by universities, partly funded by private corporations, is compromised? Our lives would be much poorer and at a much lower standard of living if research money, from corporations, to academia were to dry up. 'Big money', as you disdainfully refer to it, has done much to improve life in the US and in the rest of the world. In medicine alone, strides have been made that helped save countless lives in the poorest countries of the world. Our every day life has become much easier with the conveniences of appliances used to cook and clean, etc.. What is your hang up on 'Big money'? There is 'trickle down' that results from big business: taxes, ancillary businesses that are created as a result of it, employment, wages spent on goods and services, etc... If you think there isn't enough of the 'trickle down' taking place these days, perhaps it's because there isn't much business going on these days due to over-regulation and restrictive dictates by this ever-encroaching-on-our-freedoms government. Free enterprise, not socialist government, is the solution for an ailing economy!


Jokim - what you say above is all so true. They criticize big business, yet they live the life it supplies.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need to worry about what o is doing right now instead of Christy. o is the problem right now. Three years will take care of Christy. You need to watch your blood pressure. You have been upset for days. Not good for you to be so upset. Take a break.


 :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why the heck not? Obama NEVER takes responsibility for his failures and ALWAYS claims he knows NOTHING about any scandal or matter that turned against him, yet Obama claims the buck stop with himself. He ran for president and failed in his every venture to date (his one success - passing Obamacare illegally is now dead), so I'm pretty certain Christy can top him in his run for the Presidency if he so desires.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> ******************
> 
> Nussa's link specified natural gas and that is what I was referring to and what KPG responded to.


WCK: We all know how it goes on this thread with the Libs. They copy/paste an article, don't understand it or have any logical thoughts of their own about it, we read it and comment from our knowledge and/or experiences on the topic. IF we disagree with the way a 't' is crossed or a period placed, then the LWNuts go berserk and call us names, attack our intelligence and gang up with hate. Then we drop the subject and they'll accuse us of running away from the argument they began.

Nothing is ever discussed by them, just gang-style vile insults.

Nussa posted links specific to natural gas fracking but confused it with oil as she didn't know any better, and NJG mentioned 'flaming tap water' and underground fissures, but later denied she brought up fracking. Then Susan tells me I goofed or misspoke again and again and NJG calls me vile names for repeating her own words back to her. Then the Brat butts in with her ugliness.

What a bunch of whack-os. Why do we even bother?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK: We all know how it goes on this thread with the Libs. They copy/paste an article, don't understand it or have any logical thoughts of their own about it, we read it and comment from our knowledge and/or experiences on the topic. IF we disagree with the way a 't' is crossed or a period placed, then the LWNuts go berserk and call us names, attack our intelligence and gang up with hate. Then we drop the subject and they'll accuse us of running away from the argument they began.
> 
> Nothing is ever discussed by them, just gang-style vile insults.
> 
> Nussa posted links specific natural gas fracking but confused it with oil as she didn't know any better, NJG mentioned 'flaming tap water' and underground fissures, but later denied she brought up fracking. Then Susan tells me I goofed or misspoke again and again and NJG calls me vile names for repeating her own words back to her. Then the Brat butts in with her ugliness.


Talk about butts...those in glass houses...!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Let's see......we had Obamacultists, and now Hilarycultists. Do you have anything to add to these conversations that isn't a made up word? Talk like a grown adult, and maybe someone will be willing to have an intelligent conversation with you. So, until you can behave like a big girl, you go back to watching your cartoons, and if you're really good, maybe you'll get some sweets....... :lol:


lovethelake said:


> Oh as a Hilarycultist you should know when that question was asked it was answered, and it was so long ago what does it matter?
> 
> Why can't you watch a simple cartoon? Afraid that it tells the truth?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor KPG....she's sinking fast. She says I'm confused about fracking & oil? My state is the second largest oil producer in the USA.....second only to Texas. So I would say I've had more exposure to oil production and it's pitfalls than KPG, who by the way....makes it up as she goes along....and hasn't a clue.....such a fool...... :XD:


susanmos2000 said:


> Talk about butts...those in glass houses...!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Poor KPG....she's sinking fast.


Yes, she is...apparently the poor dear had a difficult time at a weekend craft sale. We should have guessed her vile mood was triggered by something like that. I seem to recall her boasting that she paid her employees only minimum wage--seems like that Scrooge-like attitude is beginning to bear fruit.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I posted two sites......one on fracking :

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-other-fracking-north-dakotas-oil-boom-brings-damage-along-with-prosperi

And one about the waste of the natural gas burn offs :

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/01/at-night-giant-fields-of-burning-natural-gas-make-north-dakota-visibile-from-space/

And KPG, I never posted anywhere on this site or any other, that I denied bringing up fracking....as you can see, by my re-posting of those sites. Stop lying to bolster your own lies.

Whacko's??? Oh....did we hurt your little feelings? I didn't know you had any.....



knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK: We all know how it goes on this thread with the Libs. They copy/paste an article, don't understand it or have any logical thoughts of their own about it, we read it and comment from our knowledge and/or experiences on the topic. IF we disagree with the way a 't' is crossed or a period placed, then the LWNuts go berserk and call us names, attack our intelligence and gang up with hate. Then we drop the subject and they'll accuse us of running away from the argument they began.
> 
> Nothing is ever discussed by them, just gang-style vile insults.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She doesn't have employees, she has family employees, and you know what they usually get paid......Squat. That's the best kind of business to be in, I guess....the kind where you exploit your family. Oh!! Maybe she's upset because they asked to get paid! But then, I could be wrong. I say that because she's going to come back with some really nasty stuff, and I want to cover my back by letting her know, that I could be wrong. So I just beat her to it.....


susanmos2000 said:



> Yes, she is...apparently the poor dear had a difficult time at a weekend craft sale. We should have guessed her vile mood was triggered by something like that. I seem to recall her boasting that she paid her employees only minimum wage--seems like that Scrooge-like attitude is beginning to bear fruit.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> She doesn't have employees, she has family employees, and you know what they usually get paid......Squat. That's the best kind of business to be in, I guess....the kind where you exploit your family. Oh!! Maybe she's upset because they asked to get paid! But then, I could be wrong. I say that because she's going to come back with some really nasty stuff, and I want to cover my back by letting her know, that I could be wrong. So I just beat her to it.....


Actually, I'm not sure there's much she can say in this case. If one's goods aren't selling then something is obviously wrong--either with the folks producing the stuff or the way they and the business are being managed. And for someone who doesn't like to admit to a single mistake--what a dilemma!


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, I'm not sure there's much she can say in this case. If one's goods aren't selling then something is obviously wrong--either with the folks producing the stuff or the way they and the business are being managed. And for someone who doesn't like to admit to a single mistake--what a dilemma!


Looks like you are talking about Obamacare.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

O.k. after reading how some do not want any oil gas coal ect found or used in this country to make our lives what they are today. 

I say to heck with it. Lets just buy all our fuels we need for everything we need or think we need from the Arab counties. No more oil gas or coal. 

We then cas pay more for all the products,heating ect. we need or think we need. Plus add taxes on to this. Then we can all be poor. 

Plus just think we can put in the old cast iron stoves, or fire places cut down all the trees to heat our homes and won't have to worry about the cost of heating homes cooling.

Learn how to cook on the open fire place or stove. Yes I think that is the answer. 

Oh that's right we can also learn how to deal with the pollution and the lost of trees. What the heck keep life simple. How does that sound????

Also I do keep Christ in Christmas and so do all the Christian's that post here. Tried of the flaming going on. 

Plus don't do Black Friday or the internet sales. Would bet most of those who do it do not have faith in anything but w having to have the latest gadgets or clothes ect. The rest may want to use their money as wisely as they can and not over spend. As the economy is in bad shape as some have complained. This is for the person who complained about the right wing nuts as they like to say do???

Want to also say to the people who said they have read the Obama Care Act. Come on you have to be kidding. Even the people who are in goverment have not read it all. I do not know of anyone but two people who claim to have read it all.
Believe me I doubt that they did either.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Kitty,
> Sometimes, the corporations go around the EPA rules and take short cuts to get the job done sooner. That's where the problems begin.


BP - there are a few people in any industry that will take short cuts or break rules, but it is unfair to demonize an entire industry because of that. The worst offenders tend to be fly-by-night operators that don't have ties to the community and many jurisdictions have made it more difficult for those businesses to get licenses to operate.

I believe most businesses are honest and ethical. Because they are made up of people there are going to be times when bad decisions are made, just like we sometimes make bad choices in our personal lives. Then consequences need to be dealt with and hopefully we learn from those mistakes.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> There are university studies that prove that fracking is safe but they have been squelched or ignored. I believe there was a study done by the U. of Buffalo that found fracking safe. It did not get wide publicity. Hmmm . . ..


Most likely because NYS is against fracking. Neighboring Pennsylvania is fracking and the economy is supporting it. Go figure.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> I have to disagree with that. I would call it the safe way or the highway. The right worships big business and big money. Money buys anything they want as the rest of us sit and wait for it to trickle down. Only problem is there are now so many waiting for that trickle, it never happens.


That could be because regulations, mandates, taxes and lack of education are preventing a lot of the trickle from happening. You can't lay the blame solely on the Republicans. There are many Democrats that also worship big business and big money.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Are you saying that research, done by universities, partly funded by private corporations, is compromised? Our lives would be much poorer and at a much lower standard of living if research money, from corporations, to academia were to dry up. 'Big money', as you disdainfully refer to it, has done much to improve life in the US and in the rest of the world. In medicine alone, strides have been made that helped save countless lives in the poorest countries of the world. Our every day life has become much easier with the conveniences of appliances used to cook and clean, etc.. What is your hang up on 'Big money'? There is 'trickle down' that results from big business: taxes, ancillary businesses that are created as a result of it, employment, wages spent on goods and services, etc... If you think there isn't enough of the 'trickle down' taking place these days, perhaps it's because there isn't much business going on these days due to over-regulation and restrictive dictates by this ever-encroaching-on-our-freedoms government. Free enterprise, not socialist government, is the solution for an ailing economy!


When you talk about corporations paying for research that they will benefit from, financially if that research comes out a certain way, that is wrong. If they will benefit from it financially, there should be an independent research company doing it. Is all research paid for by corporations wrong, of course not, but we won't know if it is made to come out in their favor. If an oil company wants to frack for oil and the research they bought and paid for, says that it will not harm the environment, that is wrong. Or when someone from a big corporation sits on the board of a university and has influence on the studies they do and the outcome, that's not right. I don't think that is too hard to understand. 
If a drug company wants to introduce a pill that saves someones life, and they pay for their research, and that pill does what it is suppose to, but in the process there are major side affects that they keep secret, is that something you want to take without knowing about the side affects. This has happened and you know it has. 
You say I "disdainfully" use the term big money. Well another truth is, if you have lots of money, you can buy anything you want. Is big money always crooked, of course not, but the opportunity is always there, and we have no idea if we are getting the truth or not. The longer I live on this planet the more I feel I have to question everything, and that is because money controls everything we do.
There isn't as much of the trickle down taking place today because there is more money going into the pockets of the rich and there are more poor people than ever before. Before you tell me that, that is because "those people" don't go to college and further their education, because that is not the case with everyone. The size of the middle class is decreasing more every day. There have been enough charts posted in this forum showing how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and the wages for the middle class are stagnant, while the incomes for the rich continue to increase. Is that the way you want the way you think the US should be? When I told that to Senator Grassley in an email I sent him, he tried to tell me I was wrong. I replied back to him with some statistics proving my point, he changed his mind, or at least he tried to make me believe he understood and that he cared. 
Not much business going on thesee days could also be due to the discretionary spending that the middle class can no longer due with less money. If unemployment benefits were extended that money would all go into our economy, but republicans don't want to do that. How does less money going into our economy help the economy? If the minimum wage were increased, that money would be spent and would help the economy. Is it right that WalMart CEO's are making record profits, but we are subsidizing their employees with food stamps? 
Politicians are being bought and paid for by lobbyist, hired by big money to put the people in office that will do what they want them too. If a senator was given a million dollars for his campaign, do you think he will be inclined to vote the way his financier wants him to? I don't want this country to become an oligarchy, but that is where we are headed.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That could be because regulations, mandates, taxes and lack of education are preventing a lot of the trickle from happening. You can't lay the blame solely on the Republicans. There are many Democrats that also worship big business and big money.


I don't blame only the republicans. Any time a congress person takes a million for their campaign, they will probably vote in the interest of the person or persons or corporation that gave them the million. The reason a person or group or corporation gives large sums of money is for influence. They want the person in office that will vote the way they want them to. But the majority of us do not have that option cause we can't give that kind of money. That kind of government is called an oligarchy, which is government by the few. Now some states are passing more laws to restrict voting rights, another means to that end.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> O.k. after reading how some do not want any oil gas coal ect found or used in this country to make our lives what they are today.
> 
> I say to heck with it. Lets just buy all our fuels we need for everything we need or think we need from the Arab counties. No more oil gas or coal.
> 
> ...


I have read many many parts of the ACA. Every time some one posts or I get an email telling me about, for instance, death panels, I look up that part and read it. Everyone can do that if they are interested in the truth, but I find most people prefer to believe the garbage.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you imagine????? I deserve an apology - but will never receive one. No loss and no expectation means no disappointment. Life is good, God is great!


KPG I wouldn't wait for an apology, and even if it came, what would that mean? God is great!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well why don't you try reading some of these other links then. Why don't you just give these people a call and tell them since MotherJones did a story about their home, it must not be true, and see what they tell you. They definitely have the right to question what fracking has done to their home.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Oklahoma-s-5-6-quake-largest-in-growing-trend-2324248.php#photo-1830356
> 
> ...


None of these articles have actually linked the quakes to the injection sites. It's the same residents that are blaming the injection sites. One resident lives almost on top of a fault line. Another resident didn't have earthquake insurance. Maybe that has more to do with their decision as to what caused the quake.

As far as these injection sites, the closest one to the epicenter of the quake, the water is not pressure driven into the injection site, the water flows freely and creates a vacuum in the well. That is according to those that monitor the injection sites.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think if anyone can't stand up to the abuse and name calling they need to unwatch. I have been called all kind of names but I take them as who is doing the name calling. If I was getting all emotional and upset it would be time for me to bow out. Some on here need to bow out if it is getting to rough for them. Not worth having a stroke over.


I agree, CB. Always consider the source before getting upset. :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> No, they questioned where the money was coming from and the people who signed the petition feel that their public university needs to remain a public university and not a mouthpiece for corporations. It's that big money thing again. I'll pay for your research as long as you research tells me what I want to hear.


No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Looks like you are talking about Obamacare.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Great point, Galinipper!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> When you talk about corporations paying for research that they will benefit from, financially if that research comes out a certain way, that is wrong. If they will benefit from it financially, there should be an independent research company doing it. Is all research paid for by corporations wrong, of course not, but we won't know if it is made to come out in their favor. If an oil company wants to frack for oil and the research they bought and paid for, says that it will not harm the environment, that is wrong. Or when someone from a big corporation sits on the board of a university and has influence on the studies they do and the outcome, that's not right. I don't think that is too hard to understand.
> If a drug company wants to introduce a pill that saves someones life, and they pay for their research, and that pill does what it is suppose to, but in the process there are major side affects that they keep secret, is that something you want to take without knowing about the side affects. This has happened and you know it has.
> You say I "disdainfully" use the term big money. Well another truth is, if you have lots of money, you can buy anything you want. Is big money always crooked, of course not, but the opportunity is always there, and we have no idea if we are getting the truth or not. The longer I live on this planet the more I feel I have to question everything, and that is because money controls everything we do.
> There isn't as much of the trickle down taking place today because there is more money going into the pockets of the rich and there are more poor people than ever before. Before you tell me that, that is because "those people" don't go to college and further their education, because that is not the case with everyone. The size of the middle class is decreasing more every day. There have been enough charts posted in this forum showing how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and the wages for the middle class are stagnant, while the incomes for the rich continue to increase. Is that the way you want the way you think the US should be? When I told that to Senator Grassley in an email I sent him, he tried to tell me I was wrong. I replied back to him with some statistics proving my point, he changed his mind, or at least he tried to make me believe he understood and that he cared.
> ...


Unions are making huge contributions to influence elections. Would you rather live in slavery under a socialistic government? I would not! :thumbdown:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you shoot that possum for dinner yet, LTL?
> You know nothing of Minnesota or the wonderful people who reside here. Who are you to decide who needs what and why. Such a harpy. I feel sorry for your spouse if you are even married,


Another first class response from the left. Now that's something to admire, go for it Al.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> BP - there are a few people in any industry that will take short cuts or break rules, but it is unfair to demonize an entire industry because of that. The worst offenders tend to be fly-by-night operators that don't have ties to the community and many jurisdictions have made it more difficult for those businesses to get licenses to operate.
> 
> I believe most businesses are honest and ethical. Because they are made up of people there are going to be times when bad decisions are made, just like we sometimes make bad choices in our personal lives. Then consequences need to be dealt with and hopefully we learn from those mistakes.


You bring up excellent points, WCK! :thumbup: When there are such stringent guidelines and such huge punitive consequences, you can bet your life that the businesses will tow the line and obey they laws.!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She complains the loudest and most vocal of all the Libs and _always _against the business owner, employer, entrepreneur, corporation, venture capitalist, wealthy person or Repub, but is herself uninformed about business, the economy and the marketplace with no ambition or initiative, only with an entitled and poor attitude.
> 
> You cannot help people who refuse to help themselves.


That's what the government is for. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I know, I crack me up sometimes. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Most likely because NYS is against fracking. Neighboring Pennsylvania is fracking and the economy is supporting it. Go figure.


PA's fracking is a huge boom to its economy. Also, consider ND. Their economy is unstoppable. People are drawn to jobs there from all over the world!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


Thank you, Solo! You're right on both issues. Man-caused global warming is a hoax and the fracking study by SUNYAB is a legit study which the left tried to discredit. Facts will stand the test of time! :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No you do not deserve an apology. You badgered her relentlessly. I agree wholeheartedly with her response to you. At least she is honest.


So now you and Nussa have tag teamed and are badgering KPG relentlessly. What are you, grade school mentality? You certainly don't think much of NJG's ability to defend her positions.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK: We all know how it goes on this thread with the Libs. They copy/paste an article, don't understand it or have any logical thoughts of their own about it, we read it and comment from our knowledge and/or experiences on the topic. IF we disagree with the way a 't' is crossed or a period placed, then the LWNuts go berserk and call us names, attack our intelligence and gang up with hate. Then we drop the subject and they'll accuse us of running away from the argument they began.
> 
> Nothing is ever discussed by them, just gang-style vile insults.
> 
> ...


Now, is there any way you could have just responded by giving an opinion on fracking or what you meant by your previous statement and leave the personal attacks alone. No, you have to slam everybody else instead of admitting you made a mistake. Fracking is used for oil too, no matter how much you try to deny it, you were wrong. Fracking is used for oil and you said it wasn't. Now you try to turn it around and say her links were specific to natural gas. One of her links was about fracking and the oil boom, and it said that right in the title. The other one was about the burn off of the natural gas so they could get to the oil. You still say she confused it with oil. Why are you so confused about this? Oh right, you aren't really confused, you know you made a mistake, but aren't adult enough to admit it. Nussa gave you the links to the two articles and she understands perfectly what they said as she lives there. You just go on and on about how terrible we are when actually you do exactly what you accuse others of doing. Why is it so hard for you to admit you were wrong. That is something a 3 year old might do, but not an adult. You are definitely not making yourself look more intelligent. The opposite is more the case.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That could be because regulations, mandates, taxes and lack of education are preventing a lot of the trickle from happening. You can't lay the blame solely on the Republicans. There are many Democrats that also worship big business and big money.


You have heard the expression: 'Every Marx has his Engel"? Obama has many Engels. :thumbdown:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> I don't blame only the republicans. Any time a congress person takes a million for their campaign, they will probably vote in the interest of the person or persons or corporation that gave them the million. The reason a person or group or corporation gives large sums of money is for influence. They want the person in office that will vote the way they want them to. But the majority of us do not have that option cause we can't give that kind of money. That kind of government is called an oligarchy, which is government by the few. Now some states are passing more laws to restrict voting rights, another means to that end.


When you are not blaming Republicans, you blame big corporations. Once can only conclude that you interchange the two equally.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Looks like you are talking about Obamacare.


She must be.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> KPG I wouldn't wait for an apology, and even if it came, what would that mean? God is great!


Yes to all!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> None of these articles have actually linked the quakes to the injection sites. It's the same residents that are blaming the injection sites. One resident lives almost on top of a fault line. Another resident didn't have earthquake insurance. Maybe that has more to do with their decision as to what caused the quake.
> 
> As far as these injection sites, the closest one to the epicenter of the quake, the water is not pressure driven into the injection site, the water flows freely and creates a vacuum in the well. That is according to those that monitor the injection sites.


It is just hype she finds and believes and repeats as facts; facts mean nothing to her if they don't suit her agenda.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


 :thumbup: Guess which party is known for their record-breaking and acceptance of illegal foreign raised largess in recent political races? Just sayin'


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Unions are making huge contributions to influence elections. Would you rather live in slavery under a socialistic government? I would not! :thumbdown:


The Unions received huge waivers and favors for union members from President Obama re Obamacare AND they were one of Obama's largest contributors in each of his presidential runs.

They also produce the majority of protesters and paid bodies to protest in high profile cases (like Walmart, Chick Fil-A, Occupy Movement, etc.)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Another first class response from the left. Now that's something to admire, go for it Al.


 :XD:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Let's see......we had Obamacultists, and now Hilarycultists. Do you have anything to add to these conversations that isn't a made up word? Talk like a grown adult, and maybe someone will be willing to have an intelligent conversation with you. So, until you can behave like a big girl, you go back to watching your cartoons, and if you're really good, maybe you'll get some sweets....... :lol:


Tsk tsk, couldn't handle the truth could you?

Not surprised from someone that needs to use 'potty' language instead of 'big girl words'

Hope Santa brings you a lot of coal from WV to make your Christmas warm


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> You have heard the expression: 'Every Marx has his Engel"? Obama has many Engels. :thumbdown:


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That's what the government is for. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I know, I crack me up sometimes. :lol: :lol:


You crack me up too :-D :-D :-D    :XD: :XD: :XD: even though always a voice of intellect and reason.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> PA's fracking is a huge boom to its economy. Also, consider ND. Their economy is unstoppable. People are drawn to jobs there from all over the world!


Yesiree! Then we have Nussa complaining about the economy in the state where she resides and how she is afraid part of the state will die (become extinct?) and she'll be priced out of the neighborhood as the value of housing costs rise and thousands of skilled jobs are coming to her state but going unfilled because of unskilled ND laborers. So outsiders must come in to fill the demand which greatly helps the state's economy. I guess she'd prefer NDs stick to flipping hamburgers rather than apply or prepare themselves to work in high paying and skilled jobs. Shaking my head .


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Thank you, Solo! You're right on both issues. Man-caused global warming is a hoax and the fracking study by SUNYAB is a legit study which the left tried to discredit. Facts will stand the test of time! :thumbup:


Yes - but you must have missed the argument when the Libs all attempted to disprove that study too. The LWNs still think man-caused global warming is a fact.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> So now you and Nussa have tag teamed and are badgering KPG relentlessly. What are you, grade school mentality? You certainly don't think much of NJG's ability to defend her positions.


That's nothing new. They have done it from day one of me joining KP: BrattyPatty especially. They have less common sense and abilities to learn than the three year old kindergartners I've taught.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> O.k. after reading how some do not want any oil gas coal ect found or used in this country to make our lives what they are today.
> 
> I say to heck with it. Lets just buy all our fuels we need for everything we need or think we need from the Arab counties. No more oil gas or coal.
> 
> ...


And if all your oil comes from OPEC tankers, you will still need to use the millions of miles of existing pipelines, railway and tanker trucks to get the refined products across the country. Most reported leaks are from very old pipelines using old valve and monitoring technology. And if OPEC decided to raise prices or cut off your supply altogether, you would have a hard time starting up your own industry again.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> Now, is there any way you could have just responded by giving an opinion on fracking or what you meant by your previous statement and leave the personal attacks alone. No, you have to slam everybody else instead of admitting you made a mistake. Fracking is used for oil too, no matter how much you try to deny it, you were wrong. Fracking is used for oil and you said it wasn't. Now you try to turn it around and say her links were specific to natural gas. One of her links was about fracking and the oil boom, and it said that right in the title. The other one was about the burn off of the natural gas so they could get to the oil. You still say she confused it with oil. Why are you so confused about this? Oh right, you aren't really confused, you know you made a mistake, but aren't adult enough to admit it. Nussa gave you the links to the two articles and she understands perfectly what they said as she lives there. You just go on and on about how terrible we are when actually you do exactly what you accuse others of doing. Why is it so hard for you to admit you were wrong. That is something a 3 year old might do, but not an adult. You are definitely not making yourself look more intelligent. The opposite is more the case.


I'm going to tell you this straight. I did not attack you. I responded along with WCK to Nussa and you with my opinions on fracking. I *did not make a mistake*. You and Nussa did and both denied same. Then Susan and Bratty posted their ugliness. The Libs in this thread act as a gang and are here to fight. PERIOD.

Nussa referred to fracking for NATURAL GAS as DID YOU in a couple of posts. I NEVER SAID fracking WASN'T used for oil. I'm sure I said the majority reason of the fracking process is for the retrieval of natural gas. (go back and look it up)

I discussed ONLY FRACKING and spoke about how it was MORE BENEFICIAL than other forms of energy. YOU COULD NOT COMPREHEND that which I SAID. You went off telling me you didn't mention flaming water and the like and told me I said fracking was beneficial to the environment, blah, blah, blah. ALL COMPLETELY UNTRUE because you CANNOT UNDERSTAND what I wrote. That is YOUR problem and YOUR words, not mine.

The link and topic both WCK and I discussed was NATURAL GAS and you and Nussa were ignorant of the process and facts of fracking and probably still are.

WCK and I both have personal experience in the industry, regardless of where we live, and you have blog and editorials on which you form your opinion which you then try to ram down our throats.

I don't read most of Nussa's posts but I imagine she is still blabbing on about oil when she linked everyone to a fracking article on natural gas and its waste.

When I countered your erroneous argument, you called me a liar, a bitch and an idiot and not for the first time either.

You are bitter, envious and worship the mighty dollar and despise anyone who is not a Democrat or who tries to discuss anything with you. God forgive them if they do not agree to your every utterance because you'll always then attack.

I suggest you seek God or whatever idol that gives you peace and talk and argue with your grandchildren and leave this thread and discussion to the adults.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Unions received huge waivers and favors for only union members from Obama re Obamacare AND they were one of Obama's largest contributors in each of Obama's presidential runs.
> 
> They also produce the majority of protesters and paid bodies to protest in high profile cases (like Walmart, Chick Fil-A, Occupy Movement, etc.)


Union protesters also protested individuals AT THEIR PRIVATE RESIDENCES! :thumbdown:
Isn't that BULLYING?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


and the lobbying of environmental groups, unions, alternative energy corps - all of whom also have an agenda and are constantly looking for public funding.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> When you are not blaming Republicans, you blame big corporations. Once can only conclude that you interchange the two equally.


By George she's got it!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes - but you must have missed the argument when the Libs all attempted to disprove that study too. The LWNs still think man-caused global warming is a fact.


Yeah, and fracking causes earthquakes! What's next, the moon is made of cheese? 
Geological upheavals, volcanic eruptions, etc.. have more influence on climate, by blocking sun's rays, than anything man is capable of creating.
This earth had ice ages and warming periods long before humans appeared on its surface and will continue having these global ups and downs long after we're gone.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> And if all your oil comes from OPEC tankers, you will still need to use the millions of miles of existing pipelines, railway and tanker trucks to get the refined products across the country. Most reported leaks are from very old pipelines using old valve and monitoring technology. And if OPEC decided to raise prices or cut off your supply altogether, you would have a hard time starting up your own industry again.


Oh, thanks for reminding me WCK - I think? It sickens me to think Obama refused the new pipeline with Canada multiple times.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Union protesters also protested individuals AT THEIR PRIVATE RESIDENCES! :thumbdown:
> Isn't that BULLYING?


Sigh ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> and the lobbying of environmental groups, unions, alternative energy corps - all of whom also have an agenda and are constantly looking for public funding.


In the US, unions have been hemorrhaging members (translation losing dues and fees) since the reinstatement of Scott Walker in Wisconsin started a reduction of Unions and their contracts.

All is good, expect for the fact the Unions, their members and hacks are becoming more and more aggressive and violent.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> In the US, unions have been hemorrhaging members (translation losing dues and fees) since the reinstatement of Scott Walker in Wisconsin started a reduction of Unions and their contracts.
> 
> All is good, expect for the fact the Unions, their members and hacks are becoming more and more aggressive and violent.


The more unions lose the more violent their acts become. Expect more of the same. Bullying is the buzzword lately, unions are guilty of that behavior. They have mastered the process.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> In the US, unions have been hemorrhaging members (translation losing dues and fees) since the reinstatement of Scott Walker in Wisconsin started a reduction of Unions and their contracts.
> 
> All is good, expect for the fact the Unions, their members and hacks are becoming more and more aggressive and violent.


God bless Scot Walker! :thumbup: 
Wasn't that a circus in Madison last year?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Yeah, and fracking causes earthquakes! What's next, the moon is made of cheese?
> Geological upheavals, volcanic eruptions, etc.. have more influence on climate, by blocking sun's rays, than anything man is capable of creating.
> This earth had ice ages and warming periods long before humans appeared on its surface and will continue having these global ups and downs long after we're gone.


Yes, but since the Dems are in the majority power right now, the Libs on this thread think the Repubs and evil corporations and all business are owned by Repubs who do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that is detrimental to their ideals and the Dems only do good. 

Any wonder this thread is a mess of chaos?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right there. When the imported union protesters were in Madison, they left many thousands of dollars of damage in the Capitol.


Yes, I saw the filth and garbage strewn all over the capitol. :thumbdown:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Unions are making huge contributions to influence elections. Would you rather live in slavery under a socialistic government? I would not! :thumbdown:


the more control govt has to legislate and control our lives, the more likely to have special interest groups lobbying for influence and unions are one of the biggest special interest groups; keep control to a minimum and there is no longer a reason to lobby


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Jokim said:


> God bless Scot Walker! :thumbup:
> Wasn't that a circus in Madison last year?


Yes it was and the mess it cause that cost us a clean up captiol and the recall again and he won again. The unions and some on the left are still complain. We could have used the millions spent on their mess to help the homeless the left is so worried about.
Funny how many were glad that they did not have to have the union in order to get their jobs and keep them. They now have a choice if they want to join union or not, but will still be able to keep jobs. They still have protesters singing every day at the capitol. It is getting to be just stupid.

Love that union also brought in people from other states to protest, and Micheal Moore. Wow that one sure impress me.(not) He has made money off of the left with all his books and speaking engagements. Yet claims he is helping the poor people . Reminds me of Al Gore another lefter who made money off the globe warming and now has big house big personal jet and can sell station he bought to brother hood.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> the more control govt has to legislate and control our lives, the more likely to have special interest groups lobbying for influence and unions are one of the biggest special interest groups; keep control to a minimum and there is no longer a reason to lobby


Great points, WCK! :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes it was and the mess it cause that cost us a clean up captiol and the recall again and he won again. The unions and some on the left are still complain. We could have used the millions spent on their mess to help the homeless the left is so worried about.
> Funny how many were glad that they did not have to have the union in order to get their jobs and keep them. They now have a choice if they want to join union or not, but will still be able to keep jobs. They still have protesters singing every day at the capitol. It is getting to be just stupid.
> 
> Love that union also brought in people from other states to protest, and Micheal Moore. Wow that one sure impress me.(not) He has made money off of the left with all his books and speaking engagements. Yet claims he is helping the poor people . Reminds me of Al Gore another lefter who made money off the globe warming and now has big house big personal jet and can sell station he bought to brother hood.


The left talks a big talk about helping the poor but in reality the only use they have for the poor is: their backs.
They step on their backs to attain power and they continue to keep the poor in poverty so they (the left) have a reason to exist and continue their cry for the poor! Easy MO to spot once you open your eyes!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Jokim said:


> You bring up excellent points, WCK! :thumbup: When there are such stringent guidelines and such huge punitive consequences, you can bet your life that the businesses will tow the line and obey they laws.!


:thumbup:
In my past experience, there were so many rules and protocols that the manuals were like the phone book. If the rules only pin pointed specific areas of safety and protection, it would be much easier for regulators and auditors to properly assess a worksite. I believe that strong enforcement of "real" issues is critical and forget about things like the size of signs in wash rooms and the colour of markings


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> That's what the government is for. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I know, I crack me up sometimes. :lol: :lol:


 :lol: me too


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are right, CB. KPG is not worth belching over either.


I would not want anything to happen to KPG!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Yeah, and fracking causes earthquakes! What's next, the moon is made of cheese?
> Geological upheavals, volcanic eruptions, etc.. have more influence on climate, by blocking sun's rays, than anything man is capable of creating.
> This earth had ice ages and warming periods long before humans appeared on its surface and will continue having these global ups and downs long after we're gone.


as does the earth's rotational path around the sun, sun spot activity and other cosmic activity. We still have glaciers in this area as remnants of previous ice ages as well as geological evidence of tropical rain forest. I don't have the link, but there was an article a couple of years ago that stated every factory and engine in N. America and Europe could be shut down and it would be miniscule savings compared to ongoing carbon emissions in the rest of the world

That said, technology continues to reduce carbon emission levels, vehicles and appliances are more efficient and many people continue to look for ways to improve our environment and reduce our energy requirements which is as it should be.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Love the South!http://americanoverlook.com/south-carolina-may-nullify-obamacare-should-other-states-follow-suit/107215


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

another example of how the oilsands are targeted for criticism that doesn't hold up to standards for other energy industries -

"So, ducks dying in the oilsands is bad, but killing eagles to advance U.S. wind energy is less bad?"
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/12/10/kelly-mcparland-u-s-eagle-slaughter-gets-a-pass-in-contrast-to-outcry-at-syncrude-duck-deaths/


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> another example of how the oilsands are targeted for criticism that doesn't hold up to standards for other energy industries -
> 
> "So, ducks dying in the oilsands is bad, but killing eagles to advance U.S. wind energy is less bad?"
> http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/12/10/kelly-mcparland-u-s-eagle-slaughter-gets-a-pass-in-contrast-to-outcry-at-syncrude-duck-deaths/


Hypocrisy run amok! :thumbdown:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> When you talk about corporations paying for research that they will benefit from, financially if that research comes out a certain way, that is wrong. If they will benefit from it financially, there should be an independent research company doing it. Is all research paid for by corporations wrong, of course not, but we won't know if it is made to come out in their favor. If an oil company wants to frack for oil and the research they bought and paid for, says that it will not harm the environment, that is wrong. Or when someone from a big corporation sits on the board of a university and has influence on the studies they do and the outcome, that's not right. I don't think that is too hard to understand.
> If a drug company wants to introduce a pill that saves someones life, and they pay for their research, and that pill does what it is suppose to, but in the process there are major side affects that they keep secret, is that something you want to take without knowing about the side affects. This has happened and you know it has.
> You say I "disdainfully" use the term big money. Well another truth is, if you have lots of money, you can buy anything you want. Is big money always crooked, of course not, but the opportunity is always there, and we have no idea if we are getting the truth or not. The longer I live on this planet the more I feel I have to question everything, and that is because money controls everything we do.
> There isn't as much of the trickle down taking place today because there is more money going into the pockets of the rich and there are more poor people than ever before. Before you tell me that, that is because "those people" don't go to college and further their education, because that is not the case with everyone. The size of the middle class is decreasing more every day. There have been enough charts posted in this forum showing how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and the wages for the middle class are stagnant, while the incomes for the rich continue to increase. Is that the way you want the way you think the US should be? When I told that to Senator Grassley in an email I sent him, he tried to tell me I was wrong. I replied back to him with some statistics proving my point, he changed his mind, or at least he tried to make me believe he understood and that he cared.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> O.k. after reading how some do not want any oil gas coal ect found or used in this country to make our lives what they are today.
> 
> I say to heck with it. Lets just buy all our fuels we need for everything we need or think we need from the Arab counties. No more oil gas or coal.
> 
> ...


Just because you aren't well read, is no reason to put others down...Shame.....


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Hypocrisy run amok! :thumbdown:


I saw that article today. A shame. Dirty rotten shame!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She presented none.


Your opinion.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll claim for "most" of the Libs.


Pointing fingers? Remember about pointing fingers don't you?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How refreshing; that you are willing to point out and confirm you are an idiot and do not know or understand what you read.


So much for kindness.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> The more unions lose the more violent their acts become. Expect more of the same. Bullying is the buzzword lately, unions are guilty of that behavior. They have mastered the process.


With you I agree. They, like a good number of Dems up for elections in 2014, are desperate and act accordingly.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> God bless Scot Walker! :thumbup:
> Wasn't that a circus in Madison last year?


I'm really impressed by him so far. I wonder if he'll run for President?

Joey, Yarnie - what's up with Scott?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Go live where they are using fracking and get some first hand knowledge.....otherwise your info is junk.


soloweygirl said:


> No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are right there. When the imported union protesters were in Madison, they left many thousands of dollars of damage in the Capitol.


 :thumbdown:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Because my words were not hateful would be my guess.


Apparently you don't know the meaning of hateful.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> the more control govt has to legislate and control our lives, the more likely to have special interest groups lobbying for influence and unions are one of the biggest special interest groups; keep control to a minimum and there is no longer a reason to lobby


Would you please move to the USA and become one of us (except not a Liberal wackadoodle) ? :-D


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And government will determine who gets how much, let us be clear on that. How does that equate with social justice? Obama is so big on social justice, I wonder if he would live like the rest of the people. I think not.


I suppose you could us the explanation "for the greater good of all mankind". Coal being the dirty resource it is, closing the mines is terribly bad for the miners, but continuing to mine coal and use it for energy, is harming many more people. Contrary to popular opinion clean coal is not really clean.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

If you knew anything, you'd know ND is also a large coal producing state, .....Not doing your home work again.... :roll: 
So you can keep your little black rocks.

Ohhh a big girl word! Potty.....Here's your sweets...... :mrgreen:


lovethelake said:


> Tsk tsk, couldn't handle the truth could you?
> 
> Not surprised from someone that needs to use 'potty' language instead of 'big girl words'
> 
> Hope Santa brings you a lot of coal from WV to make your Christmas warm


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> The left talks a big talk about helping the poor but in reality the only use they have for the poor is: their backs.
> They step on their backs to attain power and they continue to keep the poor in poverty so they (the left) have a reason to exist and continue their cry for the poor! Easy MO to spot once you open your eyes!


You go girl!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This could be seen in the small businesses that came forward after the BP oil spill to help with the cleanup. There were many methods showcased to aid in the cleanup. Creativity at its best.


Too bad they were needed in the first place.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I would not want anything to happen to KPG!


Ah, shucks, CB: I'm here, I'm well, I'm blessed!

. like you lots too. :thumbup:

They are all obsessed with me. They ALL post to me, tease and joke with me and never leave me alone; those are the signs of love and adoration.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Wonder how much could have been achieved if we had put all that WASTED 'green energy money' into replacing the scrubbers on coal burning furnaces? But nooooooo Obama wanted to kill an industry, cause layoffs and waste billions of dollars on companies that went bankrupt.
> 
> I seem to remember that Obama did not acknowledge the BP oil spill for over a week. So one should not be surprised that those 11 men on the oil rig that died were ignored like the murdered men in Benghazi
> 
> But then again, it is the same Obamacultists that believe living in Minnesota (that is not part of Obamacare's Marketplace) is enrolling in Obamacare. That getting subsidies that they do not need to survive is okay with them. The lack of pride is appalling


What about oil subsidies, farm subsidies are they also necessary?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ah, shucks, CB: I'm here, I'm well, I'm blessed!
> 
> . like you lots too. :thumbup:


  :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> as does the earth's rotational path around the sun, sun spot activity and other cosmic activity. We still have glaciers in this area as remnants of previous ice ages as well as geological evidence of tropical rain forest. I don't have the link, but there was an article a couple of years ago that stated every factory and engine in N. America and Europe could be shut down and it would be miniscule savings compared to ongoing carbon emissions in the rest of the world
> 
> That said, technology continues to reduce carbon emission levels, vehicles and appliances are more efficient and many people continue to look for ways to improve our environment and reduce our energy requirements which is as it should be.


So great - practical and sensible actions producing great results - yeah Canada and America! I've been to Asia and you should see the pollution and toxic emissions. Literally "see" it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> You snooze, you loose. Too bad, so sad.


 1
inShare.

Today, citizens across the US are casting their ballots, hoping to tip the balance of their state to red or blue, but few stop to wonder from where the concepts of "red" and "blue" states stem. According to Smithsonian Magazine, red did not always denote the Republican party and blue wasn't always symbolic of Democrats  this now-common lexicon only dates back to the 2000 election.

In 1976, NBC debuted its first election map on the air, with bulbs that turned red for Carter-won states (Democratic), and blue for Ford (Republican). This original color scheme was based on Great Britain's political system, which used red to denote the more liberal party. However, other stations used different colors and designations for a variety of ideological and aesthetic reasons, which often differed from person to person.

"It was a more natural association."

The color coding we're familiar with today didn't stick until the iconic (and extremely lengthy) election of 2000, when The New York Times and USA Today published their first full-color election maps. The Times spread used red for Republicans because "red begins with r, Republican begins with r," said the senior graphics editor Archie Tse, "it was a more natural association." The election, which didn't end until mid-December, firmly established Democrats as the blue party and Republicans as the red  denotations which will likely hold fast for some time to come.

Source Smithsonian


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Your opinion.


not mine, yours.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> PA's fracking is a huge boom to its economy. Also, consider ND. Their economy is unstoppable. People are drawn to jobs there from all over the world!


Talk to someone who lives in North Dakota. Everything is not wonderful.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Love the South!http://americanoverlook.com/south-carolina-may-nullify-obamacare-should-other-states-follow-suit/107215


 :thumbup: Cool; don't know if it will work, but worth the filing, I suppose.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Just because you aren't well read, is no reason to put others down...Shame.....


Oh boo hoo boo hoo. again the lefter name calling. You sure now how to do the twist and shout. :shock:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Really!... I could show your many many more.


Is disrespect ever a good thing?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh.....don't cry.......You and your friends have been doing enough twisting and shouting for all of us....Here's a hankie....BLOW!!!


theyarnlady said:


> Oh boo hoo boo hoo. again the lefter name calling. You sure now how to do the twist and shout. :shock:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That is precisely your problem; you sit and wait for the trickle down. Get off your butt and initiate your own earnings!


But didn't Reagan believe in "trickle down economics"? Is he no longer the Republican savior?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That would be me NJG...and you are right......Everything having to do with oil, & the Rockin'in The Bakken in the western part of the state of ND stinks.....


NJG said:


> Talk to someone who lives in North Dakota. Everything is not wonderful.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Because I didn't. Simple enough for even you to understand. Or would you prefer I post it again and again so you can get it?


Isn't that like telling a lie often enough people begin to think it's the truth?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> But didn't Reagan believe in "trickle down economics"? Is he no longer the Republican savior?


Reagan didn't have the entitlement attitude that NJG does and gripped about, and he was a person of action not complaint also unlike the Libs on this thread. He may have believed in triple down economics, but I don't know nor care. I do know Reagan didn't moan and complain and wait for another to take care of him and his family and was responsible for his own prosperity, success and happiness.

Are you not able to recognize the facts and difference?

P.S. He is not, nor ever been, the Republican Saviour.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you, Solo! You're right on both issues. Man-caused global warming is a hoax and the fracking study by SUNYAB is a legit study which the left tried to discredit. Facts will stand the test of time! :thumbup:


You can talk about any report you want and I can find a report or study that contradicts it. You can do the same for what I find so it gets us nowhere. I don't believe yours and you don't believe mine.

The University at Buffalos Shale Resources and Society Institute (SRSI) released a report last week that concluded that the practice of horizontal hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, is becoming less risky.

PAI conducted an analysis of the report and identified a number of problems that undermine its conclusion: data in the report shows that the likelihood of major environmental events has actually gone up, contradicting the reports central claim; entire passages were lifted from an explicitly pro-fracking Manhattan Institute report; and reports authors and reviewers have extensive ties to the natural gas industry.

PAIs analysis states: Taken together, the serious flaws in the report, industry-friendly spin, strong industry ties, and fundraising plans raise serious questions about the Shale Resources and Society Institutes independence and the University at Buffalos decision to lend its independent, academic authority to the Institutes work.

Academic institutions should be able to step in to this debate from a neutral position to collect important data, offer unbiased analysis, and help the public reach informed opinions about the issue based on the facts.

Unfortunately, a report on frackings environmental risks released recently by the University at Buffalos Shale Resources and Society Institute (SRSI) falls far short of this standard of academic inquiry. Serious flaws in the report suggest that the brand-new institute is not so much a venue for the independent study of fracking-related issues as it is a vehicle for industry-friendly propaganda, taking advantage of the University at Buffalos independent brand in order to advance a very particular agenda.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So now you and Nussa have tag teamed and are badgering KPG relentlessly. What are you, grade school mentality? You certainly don't think much of NJG's ability to defend her positions.


Any badgering that KPG receives she asks for, and how is that any different from what you are doing now. What are you grade school mentality?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

yea a budget agreement between a republican and Democrat. Now if the congress can just come to an agreement. Harry Reid had better bring it up for a vote in senate.

And guess what another Wisc. Republican Paul Ryan. Yea Wisconsin. 
After what Obama criticize him in front of an audience's with Ryan sitting there. 

Such manners from our President.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> yea a budget agreement between a republican and Democrat. Now if the congress can just come to an agreement. Harry Reid had better bring it up for a vote in senate.
> 
> And guess what another Wisc. Republican Paul Ryan. Yea Wisconsin.
> After what Obama criticize him in front of an audience's with Ryan sitting there.
> ...


 :thumbup: Yeah for those from Wisconsin! And nay to the President who has no manners.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> When you are not blaming Republicans, you blame big corporations. Once can only conclude that you interchange the two equally.


So what is wrong with the statements I made? Is this country not getting closer to an oligarchy? Did I say republicans or did I say congress person? Even when the truth hits you in the face, you have to disagree. This your way or the highway business is not going to get you very far.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh as a Hilarycultist you should know when that question was asked it was answered, and it was so long ago what does it matter?
> 
> Why can't you watch a simple cartoon? Afraid that it tells the truth?


What religious freedoms have I lost? It seems to me that all my religious freedoms are intact. Just curious, which ones have been taken away?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Unions are making huge contributions to influence elections. Would you rather live in slavery under a socialistic government? I would not! :thumbdown:


I never mentioned unions in my post, but did ask you some questions. Are you just refusing to answer?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yesiree! Then we have Nussa complaining about the economy in the state where she resides and how she is afraid part of the state will die (become extinct?) and she'll be priced out of the neighborhood as the value of housing costs rise and thousands of skilled jobs are coming to her state but going unfilled because of unskilled ND laborers. So outsiders must come in to fill the demand which greatly helps the state's economy. I guess she'd prefer NDs stick to flipping hamburgers rather than apply or prepare themselves to work in high paying and skilled jobs. Shaking my head .


Another nasty response, because that is all you know?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No, it's more like the global warming people that say the earth is warming, yet can't actually prove that it is. Their researchers (global warming's researchers) did falsify their conclusions to fit what the politicians wanted. The Buffalo study concluded that fracking did not hurt the environment, yet the politicians wanted to ban fracking, so they set about disclaiming the study's research. Typical behavior. It's all about big money politics.


Where did you find that information on researchers falsifying their conclusions on global warming, I'd like to read that?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That's nothing new. They have done it from day one of me joining KP: BrattyPatty especially. They have less common sense and abilities to learn than the three year old kindergartners I've taught.


There you go again, nasty, nasty, nasty.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> You bring up excellent points, WCK! :thumbup: When there are such stringent guidelines and such huge punitive consequences, you can bet your life that the businesses will tow the line and obey they laws.!


Really believe that? I have a bride to sell you in Brooklyn. Their actuaries have that all figured out, they can afford to lose some money to make lots more.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh.....don't cry.......You and your friends have been doing enough twisting and shouting for all of us....Here's a hankie....BLOW!!!


Oh thank you for all your kind thoughts. But I am afraid that the only one on here that is good at 'TWISTING " and SHOUTING" is you lady.

Also as to my ability to read, at least I don't read 'FAIRY TAILS", and believe in them like you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> You have heard the expression: 'Every Marx has his Engel"? Obama has many Engels. :thumbdown:


Does Cheney and Rumsfeld fit that saying too?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Unions received huge waivers and favors for union members from President Obama re Obamacare AND they were one of Obama's largest contributors in each of his presidential runs.
> 
> They also produce the majority of protesters and paid bodies to protest in high profile cases (like Walmart, Chick Fil-A, Occupy Movement, etc.)


And the pubs have the Koch brothers.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> not mine, yours.


Yep


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh boo hoo boo hoo. again the lefter name calling. You sure now how to do the twist and shout. :shock:


What was the name she called you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Really believe that? I have a bride to sell you in Brooklyn. Their actuaries have that all figured out, they can afford to lose some money to make lots more.


I'd be interested in the price of your bride; yet isn't human trafficking illegal in your state?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> And the pubs have the Koch brothers.


and Obama has Soros and all the foreign royalty (illegal too)


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Reagan didn't have the entitlement attitude that NJG does and gripped about, and he was a person of action not complaint also unlike the Libs on this thread. He may have believed in triple down economics, but I don't know nor care. I do know Reagan didn't moan and complain and wait for another to take care of him and his family and was responsible for his own prosperity, success and happiness.
> 
> Are you not able to recognize the facts and difference?
> 
> P.S. He is not, nor ever been, the Republican Saviour.


Of that I am certain, because the repubs certainly do need some one to save them. I believe Reagan was not the brightest bulb in the pack and did more harm than good for this country. In addition, he would not recognize his party if he came back today.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yea a budget agreement between a republican and Democrat. Now if the congress can just come to an agreement. Harry Reid had better bring it up for a vote in senate.
> 
> And guess what another Wisc. Republican Paul Ryan. Yea Wisconsin.
> After what Obama criticize him in front of an audience's with Ryan sitting there.
> ...


He criticized his budget proposal, which is as harsh as they come.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'd be interested in the price of your bride; yet isn't human trafficking illegal in your state?


And an explanation is necessary because human trafficking was not mentioned, so why bring it up? Are you delusional?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and Obama has Soros and all the foreign royalty (illegal too)


I believe if he was guilty of taking illegal foreign money the repubs would be on him as fast as bees on honey. Got any proof?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Of that I am certain, because the repubs certainly do need some one to save them. I believe Reagan was not the brightest bulb in the pack and did more harm than good for this country. In addition, he would not recognize his party if he came back today.


Funny you mention a dead man, long out of the office of the Presidency, and one that has been idolized by none other than your bud, Obama.

Additionally, I'll repeat, the Repubs don't need a saviour nor was Ronnie theirs. You really do love your Fairy Tales, don't you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> And an explanation is necessary because human trafficking was not mentioned, so why bring it up? Are you delusional?


Can you read and spell? Apparently, not! :XD: Perhaps you also do drugs.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I believe if he was guilty of taking illegal foreign money the repubs would be on him as fast as bees on honey. Got any proof?


They were, but, picture this, the dictator, Obama, with a stroke of his pen, wisked all those large and insignificant donations under the rug and nose of the other traitor, Holder, in the DOJ.

Amazing!

Proof - look it up yourself. I don't work for you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, NJG......they have lost every argument so far, now they are taking on the Union.....you can't beat the union..... 


NJG said:


> I never mentioned unions in my post, but did ask you some questions. Are you just refusing to answer?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, don't you say the sweetest things? And you wonder why no sane person likes you? :thumbdown:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you read and spell? Apparently, not! :XD: Perhaps you also do drugs.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Keep up the good work rocky1991. When KPG starts ranting on like this, it means she's getting rattled. Then when she's said something REALLY mean or stupid....she'll disappear for a while....and we won't have to put up with her. :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm going to tell you this straight. I did not attack you. I responded along with WCK to Nussa and you with my opinions on fracking. I *did not make a mistake*. You and Nussa did and both denied same. Then Susan and Bratty posted their ugliness. The Libs in this thread act as a gang and are here to fight. PERIOD.
> 
> Nussa referred to fracking for NATURAL GAS as DID YOU in a couple of posts. I NEVER SAID fracking WASN'T used for oil. I'm sure I said the majority reason of the fracking process is for the retrieval of natural gas. (go back and look it up)
> 
> ...


This is what you said on page 67. "AND, here is the biggie - her state gets NATURAL GAS from fracking - not OIL! What a dunce . a BIG one." This is a comment you made to west coast kitty on page 70. "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production." [ Take note, nothing said about the majority reason.]

Page 71 As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, "it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. "

The conservatives in this thread act as a gang and are here to fight. PERIOD.

OMG, OMG, OMG, let me assure you I am not envious. Never

Yes I admit I called you a liar and I am sure I will do that again as I try to point out your lies and there are a lot of them, it's a big job, but needs to be done. I have probably called you an idiot although I don't usually do that a lot. Calling you a bitch was very necessary at that point as I always try to call them like I see them. If you act like a bitch, I will call you on it.

I do not despise anyone who is a democrat, and have friends who are not democrats. I certainly do not despise them. I don't even despise you, although what I dislike about you the most is the Holier Than Thou attitude
that you have, that seems to make you think you can say anything you want to anyone and that after you say terrible things, you are somehow still a good Christian. I don't understand that. I think you are the one who needs to seek God. I think you are the one who needs to get down on your knees and ask forgiveness for all your hatred. Following are just a few of your hateful remarks. Is that really the way a good christian talks?

Page 70, She is vulgar and hateful and easy to ignore.
Page 71 How refreshing; that you are willing to point out and confirm you are an idiot and do not know or understand what you read.
Page 71 Face it - you don't have a clue what you are talking about - per usual.
Get a life, get a job and get an education it you want to stay and play.
ETA: (just for YOU) Hilarious - you continue to amaze me that you simply cannot comprehend the written word.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> This is what you said on page 67. "AND, here is the biggie - her state gets NATURAL GAS from fracking - not OIL! What a dunce . a BIG one." This is a comment you made to west coast kitty on page 70. "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production." [ Take note, nothing said about the majority reason.]
> 
> Page 71 As with most issues, you shouldn't make a decision without proper research and information. Fracking is no more dangerous than mining coal or managing an oil rig, or producing electricity from a plant; in fact, "it is less dangerous and more beneficial to the environment. "
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Reagan didn't have the entitlement attitude that NJG does and gripped about, and he was a person of action not complaint also unlike the Libs on this thread. He may have believed in triple down economics, but I don't know nor care. I do know Reagan didn't moan and complain and wait for another to take care of him and his family and was responsible for his own prosperity, success and happiness.
> 
> Are you not able to recognize the facts and difference?
> 
> P.S. He is not, nor ever been, the Republican Saviour.


Do you understand what trickle down economics actually means? Or triple down economics, whatever you want to call it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Keep up the good work rocky1991. When KPG starts ranting on like this, it means she's getting rattled. Then when she's said something REALLY mean or stupid....she'll disappear for a while....and we won't have to put up with her. :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Do you understand what trickle down economics actually means? Or triple down economics, whatever you want to call it.


LOL, wasn't that the same woman who just made fun of a typo about bride and bridge?

Though she may be correct, did you see the figures about rental equivalency? 
I think it is on LoLL.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks like KPG either made a spelling error, or really thinks it's called triple down economics.....Seems to me she came down pretty hard on someone else who made a spelling mistake. I suggest after this....she not do that again. 


NJG said:


> Do you understand what trickle down economics actually means? Or triple down economics, whatever you want to call it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Funny you mention a dead man, long out of the office of the Presidency, and one that has been idolized by none other than your bud, Obama.
> 
> Additionally, I'll repeat, the Repubs don't need a saviour nor was Ronnie theirs. You really do love your Fairy Tales, don't you?


About as much as you.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yea a budget agreement between a republican and Democrat. Now if the congress can just come to an agreement. Harry Reid had better bring it up for a vote in senate.
> 
> And guess what another Wisc. Republican Paul Ryan. Yea Wisconsin.
> After what Obama criticize him in front of an audience's with Ryan sitting there.
> ...


He needed to be criticized. Patty had been trying for months to have a conference with him and he refused till the republicans likeability was about as low as it could go. They finally realized they needed to give a little and that everything wasn't going to go their way. Shutting down the government didn't do them any good, and actually did them some harm.

Wonderful Wisconsin Republican, Paul Ryan--won the state of Wisconsin for Romney!! Yay. Wrong Obama won Wisconsin and Massachusetts.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I definitely thought this was worth sharing --



> *Republican nightmare begins: Obamacare is 'a godsend' for people getting coverage *
> 
> by Joan McCarter
> 
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you read and spell? Apparently, not! :XD: Perhaps you also do drugs.


Oh my goodness, you found me out. I can not spell nor can I read. You must be the spelling police. Thank goodness you are here to help those of us who are less fortunate than you are in spelling. Of course your proteges never misspell or misuse a word. And you got me on the drugs, I love my local marijuana shop. Thank goodness it is legal in my state. Now I don't have to send out my teenager to buy my stash from the local drug dealer. Progress, isn't it wonderful!!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and Obama has Soros and all the foreign royalty (illegal too)


Now don't forget Bush had all the Princes from Saudi Arabia. What arab was it he walked along holding hands with?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They were, but, picture this, the dictator, Obama, with a stroke of his pen, wisked all those large and insignificant donations under the rug and nose of the other traitor, Holder, in the DOJ.
> 
> Amazing!
> 
> Proof - look it up yourself. I don't work for you.


A true dictator. You are my go to person for all things Obama. You know it all!!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They were, but, picture this, the dictator, Obama, with a stroke of his pen, wisked all those large and insignificant donations under the rug and nose of the other traitor, Holder, in the DOJ.
> 
> Amazing!
> 
> Proof - look it up yourself. I don't work for you.


You are certainly not very accommodating, a true Obama hater would tell me where to find all the information you know so well. I wish you would work for me. I need someone who knows everything.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you read and spell? Apparently, not! :XD: Perhaps you also do drugs.


Ok, now the comment about drugs is way out of bounds, and you wonder how you got called the B word.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> Do you understand what trickle down economics actually means? Or triple down economics, whatever you want to call it.


Remember, please, she is never, never, never wrong. That misspelling must have been the work of liberals trying to undermine her perfection. You know that progressives, followers of the dictator Obama, know he controls spelling on the internet.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I definitely thought this was worth sharing --


That is why they tried so hard to repeal and then just kind of gave up for now at least. They knew that once it got started they couldn't just take it away, since they never had anything to replace it with.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I definitely thought this was worth sharing --


This post hits the nail squarely on the head. If the GOPers have any brains left they'll stop promising their constituents to repeal or nullify the ACA--it's truly suicidal. Soon every American voter will have an ill spouse/child/sibling/co-worker/friends whose life depends on insurance obtained through the ACA, and even the most self-centered Republican will have to wonder what happens if that coverage is yanked.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Oh my goodness, you found me out. I can not spell nor can I read. You must be the spelling police. Thank goodness you are here to help those of us who are less fortunate than you are in spelling. Of course your proteges never misspell or misuse a word. And you got me on the drugs, I love my local marijuana shop. Thank goodness it is legal in my state. Now I don't have to send out my teenager to buy my stash from the local drug dealer. Progress, isn't it wonderful!!


I think KPG may need a supplier for her drugs too. She thinks trickle down economics is triple down economics. Yes, I know it is hard to believe that KPG misspelled a word or doesn't know the meaning of a word, but I'm afraid it is so.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> This post hits the nail squarely on the head. If the GOPers have any brains left they'll stop promising their constituents to repeal or nullify the ACA--it's truly suicidal. Soon every American voter will have an ill spouse/child/sibling/co-worker/friends whose life depends on insurance obtained through the ACA, and even the most self-centered Republican will have to wonder what happens if that coverage is yanked.


The Republican hatred and fear of the ACA, is that it will work.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

So what is with McCain, criticizing President Obama for shaking hands with Raul Castro while at Nelson Mandela's funeral. I don't understand the criticism.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> That is why they tried so hard to repeal and then just kind of gave up for now at least. They knew that once it got started they couldn't just take it away, since they never had anything to replace it with.


Not quite yet--apparently South Carolina is trying to ram some piece of legislation through right now that will "nullify" the ACA. It'll never succeed, of course, but if so many people's lives weren't at stake I almost wish it would. Might be a timely reminder as to what happens to states who thumb their noses at the Feds and dare them to do something about it--haven't seen that, really, since the South defied the government on the issue of segregation.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Remember, please, she is never, never, never wrong. That misspelling must have been the work of liberals trying to undermine her perfection. You know that progressives, followers of the dictator Obama, know he controls spelling on the internet.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> I think KPG may need a supplier for her drugs too. She thinks trickle down economics is triple down economics. Yes, I know it is hard to believe that KPG misspelled a word or doesn't know the meaning of a word, but I'm afraid it is so.


Hmmm...maybe she interrupted her afternoon card game to write that. "Double down", at least, is a term used in bridge.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Remember, please, she is never, never, never wrong. That misspelling must have been the work of liberals trying to undermine her perfection. You know that progressives, followers of the dictator Obama, know he controls spelling on the internet.


Why not? She's already blaming Obama's economy for her unprofitable craft sale last weekend--natural for her to assume that he's manipulating her keyboard to make her look even more foolish than usual.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> You can talk about any report you want and I can find a report or study that contradicts it. You can do the same for what I find so it gets us nowhere. I don't believe yours and you don't believe mine.
> 
> snip


I can't believe anyone here is actually defending fracking. My God in Heaven, with fracking I believe the extraction industries have finally found the key to ruining and laying waste the entire planet. What they're doing to our precious -- and limited -- water aquifers and ground water is quite bad enough. But when you add in the man-made earthquakes, many in places not known for their earthquake activity, you have a monstrosity bested only by nuclear power's potential for TOTAL destruction.

What makes me very, very nervous is that we have 2 very scary earthquake faults - one runs through Yellowstone with its supervolcano. It's just not that far from areas where fracking is going on. Or at least, not far enough for ME.

The other dangerous area is New Madrid fault along the Mississippi River near St. Louis and Memphis. I don't think there is fracking going on in Missouri, but Illinois has put together some rules for fracking, so ... the race is on, I suppose. And unfortunately, "Between 2005 and 2010, as many as 23 percent of the new oil and gas wells drilled in Indiana used hydraulic fracturing," so there's pressure from that direction too.

It's just beyond me how people can't see the self-evident truth about fracking. How many kitchen water faucets on fire do you have to see to get it?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not quite yet--apparently South Carolina is trying to ram some piece of legislation through right now that will "nullify" the ACA. It'll never succeed, of course, but if so many people's lives weren't at stake I almost wish it would. Might be a timely reminder as to what happens to states who thumb their noses at the Feds and dare them to do something about it--haven't seen that, really, since the South defied the government on the issue of segregation.


Didn't NC want to pass a state religion bill? They are still fighting the Civil War and should know the Federal law supercedes state law. They just want to thumb their collecctive noses at Washington.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ok, now the comment about drugs is way out of bounds, and you wonder how you got called the B word.


Ignorance doesn't bother me, stupidity just needs to be ignored.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> That is why they tried so hard to repeal and then just kind of gave up for now at least. They knew that once it got started they couldn't just take it away, since they never had anything to replace it with.


I know, isn't it delicious??? (Rubbing my hands together with glee.)

To be honest, I was initially VERY disappointed that Obama didn't even go for a public option. But then I was just happy we were getting something for so many of those who are suffering -- and I do mean suffering.

But now, NOW I'm beginning to really appreciate the incredible political coup this is going to be -- for decades. (Chortling with glee now.)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Didn't NC want to pass a state religion bill? They are still fighting the Civil War and should know the Federal law supercedes state law. They just want to thumb their collecctive noses at Washington.


No doubt--it's just grandstanding, I'm sure. But, as I said earlier, if so much wasn't at stake I almost wish the thing would go through. It would be very entertaining to watch the SC government perform hari-kari on itself.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Now please tell me why no Republican in Washington will say anything about Rush making these statements. Why are the afraid of him? 



Speaking today about a University of Nebraska study which found that men's gazes are "objectifying" for women, right wing talk show host Rush Limbaugh offered his expert advice on how men can more effectively sexually harass women:

But there's a way around this, guys. You gotta have fun with this, as you know. So let me offer suggestions. The first suggestion, the first way to deal with this that came into my mind, is you find yourself staring, looking at, casually glancing at a woman, but you know that it's now socially taboo. You shouldn't be doing it, and you think everybody is noticing you doing it and condemning you in their minds. You shouldn't be doing it. So you walk up to the woman and say, "Would you please ask your breasts to stop staring at my eyes?"

Limbaugh suggested that sexual harassment was just part of human nature, saying that the "liberals" behind the study "just despise human nature and try to alter it and change it and create it, because many of them just don't fit in with it in many ways."

It will come as no surprise that Limbaugh doesn't have a problem with sexual harassment. The talk show host has previously claimed that many women who complain about sexual harassment actually wish it would happen to them.
Today's sexual harassment primer was just the latest in Rush Limbaugh's long history of sexist rhetoric about women

Limbaugh on an ongoing rape investigation:
"He's trying to figure out how he can get involved in the deal down there at Duke where the lacrosse team supposedly, you know, raped some hos."

Limbaugh on feminism:
"Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."

Limbaugh on sexual harassment:
"Some of these babes, I'm telling you, like the sexual harassment crowd. They're out there protesting what they actually wish would happen to them sometimes."

Limbaugh on the women's movement:
"I love the women's movement  especially when walking behind it."

Limbaugh on longevity:
"Women still live longer than men because their lives are easier."

Limbaugh on breasts and intelligence:
"The larger the bra size, the smaller the IQ."

Limbaugh on chauvinism:
"We're not sexists, we're chauvinists  we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want."

Limbaugh on cats and women:
"My cat comes to me when she wants to be fed....She's smart enough to know she can't feed herself. She's actually a very smart cat. She gets loved. She gets adoration. She gets petted. She gets fed. And she doesn't have to do anything for it, which is why I say this cat's taught me more about women than anything my whole life."

Limbaugh on women's clothing:
"I'll tell you, you women. Why don't you just make it official, put on some burkas and I'll guaran-damn-tee you nobody'll touch you. You put on a burka, and everybody'll leave you alone if that's what you want."

Limbaugh on overweight women:
"Female politicians get a pass on every aspect of their appearance. You would never have stories about how some female politican's fat... There are plenty of lard-ass women in politics, and they get a total pass on it."

Limbaugh on contraceptives:
"So Ms. Fluke, and the rest of you Feminazis, heres the deal. If we are going to pay for your contraceptives, and thus pay for you to have sex, we want something for it. We want you to post the videos online so we can all watch."


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why not? She's already blaming Obama's economy for her unprofitable craft sale last weekend--natural for her to assume that he's manipulating her keyboard to make her look even more foolish than usual.


But she does that so well all by herself, look foolish, I mean.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I can't believe anyone here is actually defending fracking. My God in Heaven, with fracking I believe the extraction industries have finally found the key to ruining and laying waste the entire planet. What they're doing to our precious -- and limited -- water aquifers and ground water is quite bad enough. But when you add in the man-made earthquakes, many in places not known for their earthquake activity, you have a monstrosity bested only by nuclear power's potential for TOTAL destruction.
> 
> What makes me very, very nervous is that we have 2 very scary earthquake faults - one runs through Yellowstone with its supervolcano. It's just not that far from areas where fracking is going on. Or at least, not far enough for ME.
> 
> ...


Oh, but they deny all that faucets on fire stuff, all just for show they say. Someone also mentioned that the people hadn't purchased earth quake insurance. Well, if you lived in Oklahoma, would you?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Then that is a problem with officials and regulators not doing the job they are paid for and in not enforcing your laws. In my experience, most well established oil companies will not deliberately wreck havoc with the community. They have employees that live and work in the community as well.


While you aren't an American, I would think you hear enough about the US to know that "enforcing your laws' isn't the point. Greed and corruption win over enforcing laws and regulations of all kinds in the US. There may be oil companies that have been in business for a long time, but the longer they've been operating the more greedy and corrupt they are. Squeezing a few more bucks out of any source is the "law" businesses down here in the US enforce. It is also meaningless in business terms to care that employees live and work near their employers no matter how high or low in rank they are.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ah, shucks, CB: I'm here, I'm well, I'm blessed!
> 
> . like you lots too. :thumbup:
> 
> They are all obsessed with me. They ALL post to me, tease and joke with me and never leave me alone; those are the signs of love and adoration.


In the face of adversity, we become stronger. Stay strong, KPG! :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> But didn't Reagan believe in "trickle down economics"? Is he no longer the Republican savior?


'Trickle down' does not equal 'entitlement'.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She sure doesn't need any help with that...she's leaps and bounds ahead of your average fool..... :thumbup:


susanmos2000 said:


> Why not? She's already blaming Obama's economy for her unprofitable craft sale last weekend--natural for her to assume that he's manipulating her keyboard to make her look even more foolish than usual.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yea a budget agreement between a republican and Democrat. Now if the congress can just come to an agreement. Harry Reid had better bring it up for a vote in senate.
> 
> And guess what another Wisc. Republican Paul Ryan. Yea Wisconsin.
> After what Obama criticize him in front of an audience's with Ryan sitting there.
> ...


What goes around, comes around..


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Yeah for those from Wisconsin! And nay to the President who has no manners.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ah, shucks, CB: I'm here, I'm well, I'm blessed!
> 
> . like you lots too. :thumbup:
> 
> They are all obsessed with me. They ALL post to me, tease and joke with me and never leave me alone; those are the signs of love and adoration.


Love and adoration in your dreams maybe, but not in the real world.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I know, isn't it delicious??? (Rubbing my hands together with glee.)
> 
> To be honest, I was initially VERY disappointed that Obama didn't even go for a public option. But then I was just happy we were getting something for so many of those who are suffering -- and I do mean suffering.
> 
> But now, NOW I'm beginning to really appreciate the incredible political coup this is going to be -- for decades. (Chortling with glee now.)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

He's obviously still high on every illegal drug out there.


NJG said:


> Now please tell me why no Republican in Washington will say anything about Rush making these statements. Why are the afraid of him?
> 
> Speaking today about a University of Nebraska study which found that men's gazes are "objectifying" for women, right wing talk show host Rush Limbaugh offered his expert advice on how men can more effectively sexually harass women:
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Does Cheney and Rumsfeld fit that saying too?


Marx railed against the rich but needed the rich to help him survive. Hypocrisy....


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and Obama has Soros and all the foreign royalty (illegal too)


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG, Did you read my post on page 89. All the things you said you didn't say, I found the proof that you said them. So then is that considered more lies? Help me to understand. When you say something that is not true and then you just say, no I didn't say that, does that mean you really didn't say it or does it mean you lied again or made another of those dreaded mistakes? Help me to understand.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> And an explanation is necessary because human trafficking was not mentioned, so why bring it up? Are you delusional?


What do you call 'selling a bride' if not human trafficking?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Funny you mention a dead man, long out of the office of the Presidency, and one that has been idolized by none other than your bud, Obama.
> 
> Additionally, I'll repeat, the Repubs don't need a saviour nor was Ronnie theirs. You really do love your Fairy Tales, don't you?


President Reagan brought our country world-wide respect and a thriving economy whose benefits lasted for over 20 yrs. He also initiated, with Pope John Paul II, the collapse of the Soviet empire, that is why the left hates Ronaldus Magnus!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> 'Trickle down' does not equal 'entitlement'.


Jokim, They are so ignorant, they do not even understand the theory behind trickle-down economics. (A Democrat idea - not Reagan's!)

I hinted at it by challenging NJG awhile back as did you to 'earn it' rather than expect and take it; yet not one Lib understands it.

I'm now feeling sorry for them, so found this one editorial, not even from a Conservative site, so perhaps something might sink in. I also learned the Pope has recently spoken against TDE, but the KP Libs still idolize the idea.

U n b e l i e v a b l e . emphasis added by me

http://www.forbes.com/sites/georgeleef/2013/12/06/trickle-down-economics-the-most-destructive-phrase-of-all-time

12/06/2013 George Leef

_"Trickle-Down Economics" -- The Most Destructive Phrase Of All Time?_

Our language is loaded with phrases that lead people into false beliefs and harmful actions, but the one I would nominate as the worst and most destructive of all is trickle-down economics.

*It was devised by Democrats in the 1980s as a way to attack President Reagans economic policy combination of tax rate cuts and some relaxation of federal regulations.* They needed a catchy, easy-to-remember zinger to fire at Reagan; a line that would keep their voting base angry.

Sneering that Reagans policies amounted to cutting taxes on the rich in hopes that some small amount of that money would eventually trickle down into the pockets of workers was perfect. It painted Reagan and other advocates of tax reduction as friends of the rich who would cruelly deprive the government of the money it needed to help the poor and middle class.

As a political slogan, it was a brilliant stroke.

The trouble is that it has led vast numbers of people into a disastrously mistaken idea about the source of prosperity  that high taxes and a growing government is the way to increase it.

True to form, Barack Obama trotted out the phrase in a speech on December 4 in front of an adoring audience: As the trickle-down ideology became more prominent, taxes were slashed for the wealthiest while investments in things that make us all richer, like schools and infrastructure, were allowed to wither.

Never mind that the claim about the withering of spending on schools and infrastructure is simply false (as Russ Roberts shows here).

Lets focus on that horrible ideology of trickle-down.

Wealth doesnt just happen spontaneously. Human beings must utilize limited resources to produce goods and services people want, such as the clothes youre wearing and the device youre reading this on. *Those who produce things that lots of people want become increasingly wealthy through trade, while those who produce things that few people want may lose the wealth they had.*

[color=red=In a free society, wealth doesnt trickle down, or up, or sideways. It is earned.[/color]

What people like Obama dont understand or wont admit, is that people of all economic strata, and no matter their race, religion, sex, or anything else, have far more opportunities to earn in a society with a small, efficient, frugal government than they do in a society with a huge, wasteful one.

The tax cuts during the Reagan administration somewhat increased the resources of the taxpayers, while at the same time, repeal of some regulations gave them more freedom to take advantage of opportunities for gain through exchange. The result was a large increase in production and employment.

Increasing wealth did not trickle to anyone, but the climate of freer markets enabled many Americans to earn more. Some who had previously been poor found jobs that paid well, saved money so theyd have investment capital, and then began their own businesses. *Their increased incomes were a gusher, not a trickle, and it was earned.*

Obama and his minions ought to have to write on the blackboard 100 times, Free markets and smaller government means greater opportunity for everyone.

That is a universal lesson, not just an American one. Think about the difference between Hong Kong and China. In Hong Kong, government was minimal, absorbing little of the resources available and not interfering in the peoples affairs. Lots of people risked death to leave the security of the communist state to enjoy the insecurity of Hong Kong with its unbounded opportunities for personal advancement.

Now think about the converse of trickle-down, namely the notion that what is truly good for poorer people is for the government to tax the rich more so politicians will have more money for their vast array of programs. What happens when we do that?

Higher taxes on the rich mean that those people have less wealth to invest, donate, and spend, while the government has more for its purposes. The taxpayers usually are pretty careful with their own money, but politicians are notorious for squandering it. When they throw scarce resources into boondoggles like green energy companies or websites that dont work, they make the country poorer for having wasted resources that could have been put to better use.

Far from stimulating the economy, most government spending simply gives a few people a temporary income boost that does no lasting good.

Heres one of my favorite stories about the stimulus package of 2009, told to me by a friend who lives in western Maryland. One of the stimulus projects (as announced by a big sign that itself was a waste of resources) consisted of laying sod in the median of a highway.

The locals all knew what would happen. Winter would kill the grass, which it did. The labor had been wasted and the sod had been wasted. Thats what happens when politicians make decisions about the use of money they have taken by force. You wouldnt pay for sod where you know it wont grow, but politicians will.

If anything, the epithet trickle-down applies to the government method of taxing those who earn money so that officials can then do with that money as they please. A little of the money will be given to the poor through giveaway programs such as Food Stamps and Obamaphones, but most of it will wind up in the pockets of much wealthier, politically-connected people who know how to play the system.

*What poor people should want is more freedom and more growth, so they will have better opportunities. The deceptive trickle-down economics notion was crafted to take advantage of their ignorance about the way the world works. *

Perhaps one day the pitiable Americans who now cheer when politicians who masquerade as their friends denounce trickle-down economics will realize that the massive federal Leviathan is their enemy.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Would you please move to the USA and become one of us (except not a Liberal wackadoodle) ? :-D


  we have plenty of issues to deal with up here!!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They were, but, picture this, the dictator, Obama, with a stroke of his pen, wisked all those large and insignificant donations under the rug and nose of the other traitor, Holder, in the DOJ.
> 
> Amazing!
> 
> Proof - look it up yourself. I don't work for you.


Holder is one of the more interesting AGs.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

NJG said:


> Now please tell me why no Republican in Washington will say anything about Rush making these statements. Why are the afraid of him?
> 
> Speaking today about a University of Nebraska study which found that men's gazes are "objectifying" for women, right wing talk show host Rush Limbaugh offered his expert advice on how men can more effectively sexually harass women:
> 
> ...


I distinctly remember when Rush made the comment about the women who are complaining about harassment just not getting it and wanting it. I was a teenager (probably 13 or 14). I was horrified then and still am (and the family would watch his shows because we were raised conservative). He's probably one of the reasons I became liberal.

And yes, we are like cats... We make you think that you have our adoration all the while stalking you, plotting our plan of attack, and then taking you out before you even knew what happened. Seriously, have you ever seen a cat stalk prey??


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

quoting KPG: "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production." 


NJG said:


> Take note, nothing said about the majority reason.


Hey, NJG, here is one of my posts on page 74 with the exact words and context as I said I wrote. END of subject.



knitpresentgifts said:


> How many years is it going to take for you to understand *the majority* of fracking for retrieval is for natural gas and not oil?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I suppose you could us the explanation "for the greater good of all mankind". Coal being the dirty resource it is, closing the mines is terribly bad for the miners, but continuing to mine coal and use it for energy, is harming many more people. Contrary to popular opinion clean coal is not really clean.


Advances in technology improves the performance of all fossil fuels including coal. How much are you prepared to give up to bypass fossil fuels?

http://energy.gov/fe/science-innovation/clean-coal-research
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal2.htm
http://www.cleancoaltechnologiesinc.com/


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh KPG......you've never felt sorry for anyone but yourself in your whole life......and that's called self pity. You don't even understand the word compassion much less how to feel sorry for anyone else.....(compassion-Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.) Nope.....no KPG there.....


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> In the face of adversity, we become stronger. Stay strong, KPG! :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


Nooooo, you have it all wrong Jokim! They LOVE me, they *really, really* love me. :-D Too bad I don't care.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> What do you call 'selling a bride' if not human trafficking?


Wasn't that hilarious? I had no idea she was into that stuff, and the other stuff too. Wowza!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, They are so ignorant, they do not even understand the theory behind trickle-down economics. (A Democrat idea - not Reagan's!)
> 
> I hinted at it by challenging NJG awhile back as did you to 'earn it' rather than expect and take it; yet not one Lib understands it.
> 
> ...


KPG, when it comes to economics, the left is very uneducated, or perhaps pretends to be. They think of it as a zero sum game, which it is not. The more money people have in their possession, through lowered taxes, the more that money will grow through investment and thus produce more revenue for the government (more tax revenue, not higher tax rate). Ronald Reagan's economic policy proved it. As a result of his excellent policies, the economy became so robust and healthy that it took 20 years, and sometimes bad dem. policies, to finally cool down its growth. The left can only succeed selling their flawed ec. theory of ever increasing taxes to a population who is woefully lacking in good economic education.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The next step is the governors race in 2014. Then he will think about it.


I'm going to watch for him. An interesting candidate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> we have plenty of issues to deal with up here!!


Yes, but, we need you here. Stamping feet ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Holder is one of the more interesting AGs.


Well, that was polite. Not the adjective I'd choose!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So great - practical and sensible actions producing great results - yeah Canada and America! I've been to Asia and you should see the pollution and toxic emissions. Literally "see" it.


Friends visited N. England earlier this year. Many home owners near the North Sea were given tax credits to install wind/solar energy in their homes. It doesn't make them totally independent of the grid but does less the overall need for grid power. Over the last couple of years, DH has installed 2 low speed wind turbines on our barn and garage which has reduced the amount of power we take from the grid (we didn't receive any tax credits).

IMO it is more effective in the long run to providie tax credits to individual home owners and businesses to reduce their energy requirements than to pour huge amounts of grants to questionable green energy corps who have yet to come up with cost effective operational systems


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> You are certainly not very accommodating, a true Obama hater would tell me where to find all the information you know so well. I wish you would work for me. I need someone who knows everything.


That is because I'm not a true Obama hater.

You couldn't afford my billing rate, but thanks just the same.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nooooo, you have it all wrong Jokim! They LOVE me, they *really, really* love me. :-D Too bad I don't care.


Oh, KPG, I will have to re-assess my theory of love. Hm... ;-)


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, that was polite. Not the adjective I'd choose!


I like understatement.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> KPG, when it comes to economics, the left is very uneducated, or perhaps pretends to be. They think of it as a zero sum game, which it is not. The more money people have in their possession, through lowered taxes, the more that money will grow through investment and thus produce more revenue for the government (more tax revenue, not higher tax rate). Ronald Reagan's economic policy proved it. As a result of his excellent policies, the economy became so robust and healthy that it took 20 years, and sometimes bad dem. policies, to finally cool down its growth. The left can only succeed selling their flawed ec. theory of ever increasing taxes to a population who is woefully lacking in good economic education.


I agree. Those lefties I've exchanged posts with about economics in the past were very telling of their ignorance. It was sad, actually, that they don't understand even the simplest of concepts and formulas. Rocky and NJG recently pointed out to us their acceptance of TDE and Rocky thinks RR promoted and supported it as well.

They aren't willing to learn or earn for any reason to help themselves or others.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see you haven't forgotten anything you think you know.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. Those lefties I've exchanged posts with about economics in the past were very telling of their ignorance. It was sad, actually, that they don't understand even the simplest of concepts and formulas. Rocky and NJG recently pointed out to us their acceptance of TDE and Rocky thinks RR promoted and supported it as well.
> 
> They aren't willing to learn or earn for any reason to help themselves or others.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It's a darn shame you don't have a dollar for every time you've posted that you don't care what we say about you.....you'd have quite a tidy sum by now.... :thumbup:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Nooooo, you have it all wrong Jokim! They LOVE me, they *really, really* love me. :-D Too bad I don't care.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Friends visited N. England earlier this year. Many home owners near the North Sea were given tax credits to install wind/solar energy in their homes. It doesn't make them totally independent of the grid but does less the overall need for grid power. Over the last couple of years, DH has installed 2 low speed wind turbines on our barn and garage which has reduced the amount of power we take from the grid (we didn't receive any tax credits).
> 
> IMO it is more effective in the long run to providie tax credits to individual home owners and businesses to reduce their energy requirements than to pour huge amounts of grants to questionable green energy corps who have yet to come up with cost effective operational systems


I'll have to think upon this more; haven't formed a definitive position of solar power yet. I've considered adding solar panels and a generator to our homestead; don't know enough about the pros and cons yet.

BTW: I'm on break, just folded the fabric from the dryer that I pre-washed and I'll use to make your bowls. They will be really pretty! I haven't used these color combos yet.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> While you aren't an American, I would think you hear enough about the US to know that "enforcing your laws' isn't the point. Greed and corruption win over enforcing laws and regulations of all kinds in the US. There may be oil companies that have been in business for a long time, but the longer they've been operating the more greedy and corrupt they are. Squeezing a few more bucks out of any source is the "law" businesses down here in the US enforce. It is also meaningless in business terms to care that employees live and work near their employers no matter how high or low in rank they are.


You certainly have a very cynical view of humanity. I believe "greed and corruption" are the driving force of a minority of people, that the majority care about their families and their communities


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You certainly have a very cynical view of humanity. I believe "greed and corruption" are the driving force of a minority of people, that the majority care about their families and their communities


You are absolutely correct, WCK! :thumbup:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll have to think upon this more; haven't formed a definitive position of solar power yet. I've considered adding solar panels and a generator to our homestead; don't know enough about the pros and cons yet.
> 
> BTW: I'm on break, just folded the fabric from the dryer that I pre-washed and I'll use to make your bowls. They will be really pretty! I haven't used these color combos yet.


 :thumbup: You're fast as well as talented!

Solar wouldn't be cost effective for us on a big scale, the infra structure is still too expensive. About 10 years ago we installed a small solar panel connected to a car battery that operates the gate to our home. There have been no problems with the panel and we've only had to replace the car battery once.

But the low speed wind generators have worked out ok so far. DH is always looking for better ways to make things work.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> President Reagan brought our country world-wide respect and a thriving economy whose benefits lasted for over 20 yrs. He also initiated, with Pope John Paul II, the collapse of the Soviet empire, that is why the left hates Ronaldus Magnus!


And Iran Contra


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> quoting KPG: "You and I both pointed out her erroneous belief that fracking is for oil production."


You are too funny. You were called out on your lie and then made that comment to cover your a--. It is obvious to everyone. You are a know it all person who lacks a lot of knowledge. You think you are smarter than everyone and everyone will believe you, but you are terribly wrong.
Just because you say "end of subject," doesn't make it so. You are still a liar, who is unable to say I made a mistake.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

True to everything I have observed about the one-who-must-not-be-named (because I hate to hear a new diatribe.)



NJG said:


> You are too funny. You were called out on your lie and then made that comment to cover your a--. It is obvious to everyone. You are a know it all person who lacks a lot of knowledge. You think you are smarter than everyone and everyone will believe you, but you are terribly wrong.
> Just because you say "end of subject," doesn't make it so. You are still a liar, who is unable to say I made a mistake.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are too funny. You were called out on your lie and then made that comment to cover your a--. It is obvious to everyone. You are a know it all person who lacks a lot of knowledge. You think you are smarter than everyone and everyone will believe you, but you are terribly wrong.
> Just because you say "end of subject," doesn't make it so. You are still a liar, who is unable to say I made a mistake.


And she has a whole gaggle of sycophants buffaloed to hang on her every word. Doesn't anyone on the right do her own reading and form her own opinion? How can people have so little self-respect that they can't read and think for themselves?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> You are too funny. You were called out on your lie and then made that comment to cover your a--. It is obvious to everyone. You are a know it all person who lacks a lot of knowledge. You think you are smarter than everyone and everyone will believe you, but you are terribly wrong.
> Just because you say "end of subject," doesn't make it so. You are still a liar, who is unable to say I made a mistake.


And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.

My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*

Go right ahead and waste you time attempting to show me a liar by taking my words out of context and twisting them to suit your biased agenda as that is ALL you know.

I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you. That is fine by me.

*Don't you dare* (your words) bother every responding to me or using my name addressing me again.

I don't tolerate those who repeatedly call me an idiot, a liar and a bitch without apology or cause. You continue to insult every wealthy person, business owner, capitalist, Christian, intelligent person, compassionate person, Republican or KP member.

You are sick and need help. Get some.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't tolerate those who repeatedly call me an idiot, a liar and a bitch without apology or cause.


Well, as she (and everyone) has ample cause I guess there's no problem.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


"For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


Oooooh, she should be very very scared of this true Christian! Cut the threats and live up to your Christianity. KPG, have you no shame? You're such an embarrassment to true believers!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> 'Trickle down' does not equal 'entitlement'.


What entitlements are you talking about?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Advances in technology improves the performance of all fossil fuels including coal. How much are you prepared to give up to bypass fossil fuels?
> 
> http://energy.gov/fe/science-innovation/clean-coal-research
> http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/clean-coal2.htm
> http://www.cleancoaltechnologiesinc.com/


How many coal plants use the BEST clean technology?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wasn't that hilarious? I had no idea she was into that stuff, and the other stuff too. Wowza!


It is so difficult trying to speak to stupid people, so I just pity them.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> What do you call 'selling a bride' if not human trafficking?


Being legally blind, I think I do pretty well at typing. Proof reading my posts is not easy, therefore I do have some misspellings, no one can be as perfect as you. You will just have to continue being as snarky and nasty as you are, I can take it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That is because I'm not a true Obama hater.
> 
> You couldn't afford my billing rate, but thanks just the same.


You are truly amazing. But not in a good way. How do you know I couldn't afford your billing rate?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You certainly have a very cynical view of humanity. I believe "greed and corruption" are the driving force of a minority of people, that the majority care about their families and their communities


Live in the real world much?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> You certainly have a very cynical view of humanity. I believe "greed and corruption" are the driving force of a minority of people, that the majority care about their families and their communities


I don't think I'm being cynical at all. Remember West, TX? A lot of people around here made "Remember West, TX" a slogan for a while. If we are talking about the motives if individuals, I believe there is a possibility that greed and corruption don't motivate some individuals. If we're talking about businesses, greed and corruption are two of the things they worship deeply and perform as often as they possibly can. Keep in mind that, after all, I'm talking about US business practices.

This is from a Reuters report made on 4/20/2013, three days after the explosion.

"All three cable news networks failed to highlight a West, Texas, fertilizer plant's *storage of 270 tons of ammonium nitrate -- 1,350 times the amount allowed without disclosure to the federal government* -- in reporting on the April 17 explosion at that plant. The networks also virtually ignored the plant's history of violating state and federal regulations.

*Fertilizer plants and depots must report to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) whenever they hold 400 pounds or more of ammonium nitrate*, a potentially explosive chemical that can be used in bomb making. West Fertilizer, "did not tell [DHS] about the potentially explosive fertilizer as it is required to do, leaving one of the principle regulators of ammonium nitrate ... unaware of any danger there."

Please note that the West Fertilizer Company was required to *self-report* the amount of ammonium nitrate stored at their facility.*How likely do you think it is that anyone in a position to self-report violations of laws and regulations will actually do so?* I think it's completely unlikely and that violations like that of the West Fertilizer Co. are common. every day modes of business operations.

I'm not even going to try to say what I think of "self-reporting" I'd use such bad language that I'd get kicked off KP.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama the Imbecile Misunderstands Obamacare
> 
> By David Lawrence
> 11 December 2013
> ...


Is there no end to the lack of civility and disrespect coming from the right? Talk about name-calling and lying! And people have the gall to criticize Martin Bashir for bashing Sarah Palin? Why are you still reading and posting this crap, Joey? Why can't you be just a little balanced in what you read? No astute individual would give this stuff the time of day. If you really are an educated person you have to be able to weigh things you read and decide if they're baloney.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is there no end to the lack of civility and disrespect coming from the right? Talk about name-calling and lying! And people have the gall to criticize Martin Bashir for bashing Sarah Palin? Why are you still reading and posting this crap, Joey? Why can't you be just a little balanced in what you read? No astute individual would give this stuff the time of day. If you really are an educated person you have to be able to weigh things you read and decide if they're baloney.


Agree 100%, Al. Joey's post is the biggest load of BS I've seen for a while. I also see that the writer, David Lawrence, was a professional boxer. No surprise there--it's obvious from the way he expresses himself that he's taken one too many shots to the head.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

KPG, this one's for you. This is what you said on 8/31/2013 on Smoking and Obamacare #21, Page 40. Think of this as my contribution to the recent long attack on you. You certainly seem to delight in "causing divisions and obstacles." You might like to take that cartoon about "putting the "Christ" back in "Christians" seriously.

You, in response to a post by alcameron who just happens to be one of the most well-mannered people around here, wrote:

*"I'm sick of your garbage. Zip it. 
Sisters in Christ, watch out for she who causes divisions and obstacles to what we have been taught - avoid her. For this person does not serve our Lord Christ but her own ideals and by her false talk tries to deceive the heart of the naive."*


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Being legally blind, I think I do pretty well at typing. Proof reading my posts is not easy, therefore I do have some misspellings, no one can be as perfect as you. You will just have to continue being as snarky and nasty as you are, I can take it.


I actually liked your post the way it was, thought it was rather funny. You may be able to sell that bride to Obama after Michelle's reaction to him getting all mack daddy with Denmark's PM at Mandela's memorial.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is there no end to the lack of civility and disrespect coming from the right? Talk about name-calling and lying! And people have the gall to criticize Martin Bashir for bashing Sarah Palin? Why are you still reading and posting this crap, Joey? Why can't you be just a little balanced in what you read? No astute individual would give this stuff the time of day. If you really are an educated person you have to be able to weigh things you read and decide if they're baloney.[/
> 
> Right Wing claptrap, need I say more?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, that was polite. Not the adjective I'd choose!


Right KPG, that is not nasty enough for you, as you would show more disrespect, and then right afterwards claim to be a good Christian. :XD:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I actually liked your post the way it was, thought it was rather funny. You may be able to sell that bride to Obama after Michelle's reaction to him getting all mack daddy with Denmark's PM at Mandela's memorial.


Truly a statement told by an idiot. Thank you for your post, made my morning.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I actually liked your post the way it was, thought it was rather funny. You may be able to sell that bride to Obama after Michelle's reaction to him getting all mack daddy with Denmark's PM at Mandela's memorial.


You must know lots about pimps...galinipper...who's your mack daddy?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes - but you must have missed the argument when the Libs all attempted to disprove that study too. The LWNs still think man-caused global warming is a fact.


I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Truly a statement told by an idiot. Thank you for your post, made my morning.


Don't be so hard on yourself, after all you can't catch all of your mistakes. You really do a good job.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG said I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you. That is fine by me.

Wrong again, KPG If you had as much class as you pretend you have and even half the knowledge you say you have, you wouldn't be making so many mistakes and telling so many lies. If you were the good Christian you want everyone to believe you are, you wouldn't be so nasty. You can't just voice an opinion about something, you have to slam and trash another person first. So petty, it just proves you don't have the knowledge you say you have so you put the emphasis on the other person instead of the info you are passing along. You think, wrongly of course, that if you trash someone else no one will notice your lack of knowledge. It's not working!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> as does the earth's rotational path around the sun, sun spot activity and other cosmic activity. We still have glaciers in this area as remnants of previous ice ages as well as geological evidence of tropical rain forest. I don't have the link, but there was an article a couple of years ago that stated every factory and engine in N. America and Europe could be shut down and it would be miniscule savings compared to ongoing carbon emissions in the rest of the world
> 
> That said, technology continues to reduce carbon emission levels, vehicles and appliances are more efficient and many people continue to look for ways to improve our environment and reduce our energy requirements which is as it should be.


So right WCK. That's why the whole carbon footprint thing went nowhere.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> It is so difficult trying to speak to stupid people, so I just pity them.


Me too!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> You are truly amazing. But not in a good way. How do you know I couldn't afford your billing rate?


Amazingly simple; there is no amount of money for which you could pay me to work for you (my current billing rate aside).


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> another example of how the oilsands are targeted for criticism that doesn't hold up to standards for other energy industries -
> 
> "So, ducks dying in the oilsands is bad, but killing eagles to advance U.S. wind energy is less bad?"
> http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/12/10/kelly-mcparland-u-s-eagle-slaughter-gets-a-pass-in-contrast-to-outcry-at-syncrude-duck-deaths/


There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama the Imbecile Misunderstands Obamacare
> 
> By David Lawrence
> 11 December 2013
> ...


Thanks for this post Joey; Obama has been done for a while now and his approval rating tanked weeks ago and is still falling further today. What a horrible legacy he gave himself. Wouldn't want to be him taking the wrath from the incumbent Dem Congressmen right now.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> I actually liked your post the way it was, thought it was rather funny. You may be able to sell that bride to Obama after Michelle's reaction to him getting all mack daddy with Denmark's PM at Mandela's memorial.


 :-D


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Go live where they are using fracking and get some first hand knowledge.....otherwise your info is junk.


I live in Oklahoma, how much closer should I get?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.


The Polar bears are happy though :-D . even though the LWNs told us they (the bears) were diminishing in population, the exact opposite is the fact and truth.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself, after all you can't catch all of your mistakes. You really do a good job.


I like you; credit given where credit is due. :thumb up:

PS: love your present avatar!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, They are so ignorant, they do not even understand the theory behind trickle-down economics. (A Democrat idea - not Reagan's!)
> 
> I hinted at it by challenging NJG awhile back as did you to 'earn it' rather than expect and take it; yet not one Lib understands it.
> 
> ...


Wrong again KPG. First of all Forbes is definitely a conservative site. Whether you call it Reaganomics, supply side economics, trickle down economics, or [your term] triple down economics, it means giving the tax cuts to the rich and hope the benefits trickle down to the poor and it was Reagans idea, a republican way of doing business. It is a term attributed to Will Rogers who said "money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy."

No reason to feel sorry for us as you are the confused one. Look where all the Bush tax cuts got us. If you think there has been spending on infrastructure, then why do we have so many bridges and roads in need of repair? 
So since Bush gave all those tax cuts where did that money go? Was in invested? Did it create jobs, definitely not. 
This economy did quite well when President Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy. 
So you don't think laying sod is good for the economy. Well, there was money used to buy the sod from some business, someone was paid to retrieve the sod, someone was paid to lay the sod, someone will be paid to mow the sod. That is evidently what that community needed at the time. Sorry they didn't think they needed to get your permission first.

You know if just once in your life, you talked like a concerned caring person, maybe someone would actually believe what you say. Again, you are the most nasty person I have ever encountered. A good christian you are not.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I suppose you could us the explanation "for the greater good of all mankind". Coal being the dirty resource it is, closing the mines is terribly bad for the miners, but continuing to mine coal and use it for energy, is harming many more people. Contrary to popular opinion clean coal is not really clean.


Neither is solar energy. One can find fault with everything. The coal industry has cleaned up its act over the last 30 years. It's not perfect and no one is saying it is. It does have it's place in keeping electricity costs down for the most part. Other countries will gladly buy our coal and use it to keep their costs down.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


I remember seeing a special on TV about that stupidity. How thousands or residents had no water and lost acres of land that was destroyed and many had to abandon their homes/jobs, etc. No common sense at all by the environmentalists.

I since heard that the fish is overpopulating and destroying other lakes or streams and is becoming a real problem. I don't remember many of the facts, just that the problem is beyond what happened in the immediate area of CA in the original story.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So great - practical and sensible actions producing great results - yeah Canada and America! I've been to Asia and you should see the pollution and toxic emissions. Literally "see" it.


Before the summer olympics in China, the Chinese government was testing the air quality daily. They were rotating their manufacturing so the air quality would be acceptable. It is a big problem in Asia.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Jokim said:


> President Reagan brought our country world-wide respect and a thriving economy whose benefits lasted for over 20 yrs. He also initiated, with Pope John Paul II, the collapse of the Soviet empire, that is why the left hates Ronaldus Magnus!


I'm an independent. I certainly don't "hate" Reagan--I acknowledge the good things he did...but I also don't overlook the bad. That's not hate, it's realism.

And it's funny: the same Republicans who continually hail Reagan today, would be the first to yell that he's not "conservative enough" if he was alive and in politics today.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Where did you find that information on researchers falsifying their conclusions on global warming, I'd like to read that?


By all means goggle it. Have fun, it is an eye opener, so much so it kept Al Gore quiet for quite some time.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> I'm an independent. I certainly don't "hate" Reagan--I acknowledge the good things he did...but I also don't overlook the bad. That's not hate, it's realism.
> 
> And it's funny: the same Republicans who continually hail Reagan today, would be the first to yell that he's not "conservative enough" if he was alive and in politics today.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


You know KPG, the more you try to explain your mistakes away, the more ridiculous you sound. You didn't say, in my opinion, you stated it as fact, and the worst thing about it is you were using false information to try to make someone else look stupid, just another put down. It's not bad enough to act like a know it all, you have to put some one else down. in the process. You appear to take great pleasure in putting other down. You don't just make a comment voicing your opinion, you have to degrade the person too. Then when we give it back to you , you play poor me. Apologize to you, you have so much to apologize before that ever happens. You started this with me, and you innocent approach now will not work. 
It is probably good that you think you have much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than I do cause you are the only one that thinks that about you. What was said about bragging about yourself,
that it means insecurity. You must be very, very insecure for all the bragging you do. That bragging about yourself is a quality I didn't foster in my daughters, and I am so glad.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Keep up the good work rocky1991. When KPG starts ranting on like this, it means she's getting rattled. Then when she's said something REALLY mean or stupid....she'll disappear for a while....and we won't have to put up with her. :thumbup:


I have an idea. I know, but listen anyway. Why don't you leave the thread, then you won't have to "put up with her" and we won't have to put up with you. It's a win-win for everyone.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think I'm being cynical at all. Remember West, TX? A lot of people around here made "Remember West, TX" a slogan for a while. If we are talking about the motives if individuals, I believe there is a possibility that greed and corruption don't motivate some individuals. If we're talking about businesses, greed and corruption are two of the things they worship deeply and perform as often as they possibly can. Keep in mind that, after all, I'm talking about US business practices.
> 
> This is from a Reuters report made on 4/20/2013, three days after the explosion.
> 
> ...


And then the republicans want less regulations. This shows how responsible some businesses can be without enough regulations.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I have an idea. I know, but listen anyway. Why don't you leave the thread, then you won't have to "put up with her" and we won't have to put up with you. It's a win-win for everyone.


Gosh, I must have missed somewhere on here where you were made the Thread God of the day with super powers :roll: :lol:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Is there no end to the lack of civility and disrespect coming from the right? Talk about name-calling and lying! And people have the gall to criticize Martin Bashir for bashing Sarah Palin? Why are you still reading and posting this crap, Joey? Why can't you be just a little balanced in what you read? No astute individual would give this stuff the time of day. If you really are an educated person you have to be able to weigh things you read and decide if they're baloney.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Me too!


I use to pity you KPG, but not any more. Now I believe you get what you deserve.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.


OK, I will:

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth20130613.html#.Uqi-eeIvsf4
*Warm Ocean Causing Most Antarctic Ice Shelf Mass Loss*


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Polar bears are happy though :-D . even though the LWNs told us they (the bears) were diminishing in population, the exact opposite is the fact and truth.


Polar bears don't live in Antartica... And they aren't happy in the north, where they do live, due to loss of habitat (due to warming).


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Oh, but they deny all that faucets on fire stuff, all just for show they say. Someone also mentioned that the people hadn't purchased earth quake insurance. Well, if you lived in Oklahoma, would you?


As usual you are twisting things around, thinking you are making your point. What I said was the people in Oklahoma complaining and linking the earthquake to fracking could have been doing so because they had damage to their homes. At least one complainer did not have earthquake insurance. The information you are making fun of came from YOUR links. Also present in YOUR links was NO PROOF that fracking caused the earthquakes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Polar bears don't live in Antartica... And they aren't happy in the north, where they do live, due to loss of habitat (due to warming).


I didn't say the Polar bears lived in Antartica and you just said you are an independent as compared to me referring to LWNs, so not sure why you are making these false arguments.

Whatever  oh, yes, and were they DO live they are thriving.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual you are twisting things around, thinking you are making your point. What I said was the people in Oklahoma complaining and linking the earthquake to fracking could have been doing so because they had damage to their homes. At least one complainer did not have earthquake insurance. The information you are making fun of came from YOUR links. Also present in YOUR links was NO PROOF that fracking caused the earthquakes.


Surprised by her antics? I'm not.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, They are so ignorant, they do not even understand the theory behind trickle-down economics. (A Democrat idea - not Reagan's!)
> 
> I hinted at it by challenging NJG awhile back as did you to 'earn it' rather than expect and take it; yet not one Lib understands it.
> 
> ...


The young, college age and late 20's group are finally seeing it for themselves. Obamacare has really opened their eyes.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I didn't say the Polar bears lived in Antartica and you just said you are an independent as compared to me referring to LWNs, so not sure why you are making these false arguments.
> 
> Whatever  oh, yes, and were they DO live they are thriving.


You replied to a post on record low temps in Antarctica that the polar bears must be happy. So how was _my_ response to you a "false argument?"

And I never compared myself to you at all. I merely, in a post on an entirely different subject (this thread has so many), that I am an independent. A simple statement of fact unrelated to you in any way.

And while polar bears are somewhat stable--declining in many places, doing well in some--overall, they aren't "thriving."


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think I'm being cynical at all. Remember West, TX? A lot of people around here made "Remember West, TX" a slogan for a while. If we are talking about the motives if individuals, I believe there is a possibility that greed and corruption don't motivate some individuals. If we're talking about businesses, greed and corruption are two of the things they worship deeply and perform as often as they possibly can. Keep in mind that, after all, I'm talking about US business practices.
> 
> This is from a Reuters report made on 4/20/2013, three days after the explosion.
> 
> ...


I wonder why a fertilizer company is required to "self report" rather than have a monthly inspection of the plant. If the government is limiting the amount of fertilizer, then it should be part of their job to monitor the fertilizer companies, not have a self reporting business owner. If the government deems it so important, with obvious reasons, they should do their best to monitor those requirements. I'm tired of hearing the excuses of we don't have enough personnel or it just slipped through the cracks. If the government can make the regulations, then they should enforce said regulations without excuses.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> And then the republicans want less regulations. This shows how responsible some businesses can be without enough regulations.


No, it doesn't show how responsible some businesses can be without enough regulations. It shows that self-reporting is a criminal concept that allows businesses to operate by their own regulations
no matter how potentially disastrous that can be, and that businesses can make up their regulations as they go, unhindered by any authority that is mandated to examine their practices.

With the existence of self-reporting at many levels of business operations we can't really judge how much any business is actually regulated. What the Republicans may or not may not want in terms of less regulation can't be measured either. Unless all self-reporting is known and is totally transparent and actually adhered to, we remain in the dark.

Arrgghhh! I've started to say what I think of self-reporting. I have to stop or I really will start frothing at the mouth. Suffice it to say, again, self-reporting is a criminal concept that allows businesses to get away with anything they want to get away with.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Gosh, I must have missed somewhere on here where you were made the Thread God of the day with super powers :roll: :lol:


Being ever the observant one, you also missed the post where Nussa told KPG to leave the thread. So I guess Nussa and I are both "Thread God of the day with super powers".


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Surprised by her antics? I'm not.


Not by hers or any other lib/Dem.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The young, college age and late 20's group are finally seeing it for themselves. Obamacare has really opened their eyes.


Reaganomics
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Reagan gives a televised address from the Oval Office, outlining his plan for tax reductions in July 1981

Reaganomics (/reɪɡəˈnɒmɪks/; a portmanteau of Reagan and economics attributed to Paul Harvey)[1] refers to the economic policies promoted by U.S. President Ronald Reagan during the 1980s and still widely practiced. These policies are commonly associated with supply-side economics, referred to as trickle-down economics by political opponents.

The four pillars of Reagan's economic policy were to reduce the growth of government spending, reduce the federal income tax and capital gains tax, reduce government regulation, and control the money supply in order to reduce inflation.[2]

Reagan significantly increased public expenditures, primarily the Department of Defense, which rose (in constant 2000 dollars) from $267.1 billion in 1980 (4.9% of GDP and 22.7% of public expenditure) to $393.1 billion in 1988 (5.8% of GDP and 27.3% of public expenditure); most of those years military spending was about 6% of GDP, exceeding this number in 4 different years. All these numbers had not been seen since the end of U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War in 1973.[14] In 1981, Reagan significantly reduced the maximum tax rate, which affected the highest income earners, and lowered the top marginal tax rate from 70% to 50%; in 1986 he further reduced the rate to 28%.[15] The federal deficit under Reagan peaked at 6% of GDP in 1983, falling to 3.2% of GDP in 1987[16] and to 3.1% of GDP in his final budget.[17] The inflation-adjusted rate of growth in federal spending fell from 4% under Jimmy Carter to 2.5% under Ronald Reagan; however, federal deficit as percent of GDP was up throughout the Reagan presidency from 2.7% at the end of (and throughout) the Carter administration.[2][17] As a short-run strategy to reduce inflation and lower nominal interest rates, the U.S. borrowed both domestically and abroad to cover the Federal budget deficits, raising the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion.[18] This led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19] Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his presidency.[20]


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> You replied to a post on record low temps in Antarctica that the polar bears must be happy. So how was _my_ response to you a "false argument?"
> 
> And I never compared myself to you at all. I merely, in a post on an entirely different subject (this thread has so many), that I am an independent. A simple statement of fact unrelated to you in any way.
> 
> And while polar bears are somewhat stable--declining in many places, doing well in some--overall, they aren't "thriving."


I take it you haven't followed the discussion recently on energy and nonexistent man-made global warming as claimed by the Libs on this thread. Yes, I responded to a post about record low temps and non-existent warming and stated that the LWNs claim the polar bear population is diminishing (it is not).

Never did I say the polars live in Antarctica yet you assumed and corrected me for something I did not say. Meanwhile you identified yourself, after my post, as someone other than a LWN which is something I _did_ mention in my post.

So, I asked why you brought up false arguments to me (some of which would be):

1) I didn't mention where Polars lived; 
2) According to you are not a LWN which is the comparison I did originally make; 
3) You stated the Polars are suffering as a result of warming which had recently been refuted and, therefore, another false argument repeated.

That's all; and nothing more. Enjoy your evening!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG,said: Pope has recently spoken against TDE, but the KP Libs still idolize the idea.

I think you are loosing some of your gray matter, KPG, you think democrats like trickle down, OMG that is one of the most stupid things you have said. You have lost all control.
Democrats do not idolize trickle down economics, that is a republican thing. It means giving the breaks [tax cuts] to those at the top and hope that it will trickle down to the poor. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain how the democrats would idolize giving tax cuts to the wealthy. You are so wrong, I can't believe your stupidity.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You replied to a post on record low temps in Antarctica that the polar bears must be happy. So how was _my_ response to you a "false argument?"
> 
> And I never compared myself to you at all. I merely, in a post on an entirely different subject (this thread has so many), that I am an independent. A simple statement of fact unrelated to you in any way.
> 
> And while polar bears are somewhat stable--declining in many places, doing well in some--overall, they aren't "thriving."


I have also read that in some places where they are increasing in number, they are declining in health and are much thinner than they should be.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I wonder why a fertilizer company is required to "self report" rather than have a monthly inspection of the plant. If the government is limiting the amount of fertilizer, then it should be part of their job to monitor the fertilizer companies, not have a self reporting business owner. If the government deems it so important, with obvious reasons, they should do their best to monitor those requirements. I'm tired of hearing the excuses of we don't have enough personnel or it just slipped through the cracks. If the government can make the regulations, then they should enforce said regulations without excuses.


They are required to self report because there isn't enough money to employ enough people to go around and inspect to make sure the children are doing what they are suppose to do. Republicans want less regulation and want government to get out of the way. You would think the plant owners would have given some thought to the safety of its employees and the community and maybe a little less thought to the money in their pockets.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

*What is a Mack Daddy?*



rocky1991 said:


> You must know lots about pimps...galinipper...who's your mack daddy?


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I take it you haven't followed the discussion recently on energy and nonexistent man-made global warming as claimed by the Libs on this thread. Yes, I responded to a post about record low temps and non-existent warming and stated that the LWNs claim the polar bear population is diminishing (it is not).
> 
> Never did I say the polars live in Antarctica yet you assumed and corrected me for something I did not say. Meanwhile you identified yourself, after my post, as someone other than a LWN which is something I _did_ mention in my post.
> 
> ...


Um...no. Two pages ago:

soloweygirl wrote:


> I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.
> 
> * To which you replied:*
> The Polar bears are happy though . even though the LWNs told us they (the bears) were diminishing in population, the exact opposite is the fact and truth.


BTW, you and others can hold your breathe until you turn blue but global warming is a fact. Just what is an LWN, anyway?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself, after all you can't catch all of your mistakes. You really do a good job.


I really do, thanks for that praise.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Coldest temperature ever recorded on Earth in Antarctica: -94.7C (-135.8F)
The reading won't be featured in the Guinness Book of World Records because it was satellite measured

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Associated Press
theguardian.com, Monday 9 December 2013 20.17 EST	

New data from Antarctica shows region sets new record for coldest temperature
Nasa satellite data revealed that Earth set a new record for coldest temperature recorded in east Antarctica. Photograph: Atsuhiro Muto/AP

Newly analysed Nasa satellite data from east Antarctica shows Earth has set a new record for coldest temperature ever recorded: -94.7C (-135.8F).

It happened in August 2010 when it hit -94.7C (-135.8F). Then on 31 July of this year, it came close again: -92.9C (-135.3F).

The old record had been -89.2C (-128.6F).

Ice scientist Ted Scambos at the National Snow and Ice Data Centre announced the cold facts at the American Geophysical Union scientific meeting in San Francisco on Monday.

"It's more like you'd see on Mars on a nice summer day in the poles," said Scambos. "I'm confident that these pockets are the coldest places on Earth."

However, it won't be in the Guinness Book of World Records because these were satellite measured, not from thermometers, Scambos said.

"Thank God, I don't know how exactly it feels," he said. But he said scientists do routinely make naked -73C (-100F) dashes outside in the south pole as a stunt, so people can survive that temperature for about three minutes.

Most of the time researchers need to breathe through a snorkel that brings air into the coat through a sleeve and warms it up "so you don't inhale by accident" the cold air, Scambos said.

Waleed Abdalati, an ice scientist at the University of Colorado and Nasa's former chief scientist, and Scambos said this is likely an unusual random reading in a place that hasn't been measured much before and could have been colder or hotter in the past and we wouldn't know.

"It does speak to the range of conditions on this Earth, some of which we haven't been able to observe," Abdalati said.
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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I take it you haven't followed the discussion recently on energy and nonexistent man-made global warming as claimed by the Libs on this thread. Yes, I responded to a post about record low temps and non-existent warming and stated that the LWNs claim the polar bear population is diminishing (it is not).
> 
> Never did I say the polars live in Antarctica yet you assumed and corrected me for something I did not say. Meanwhile you identified yourself, after my post, as someone other than a LWN which is something I _did_ mention in my post.
> 
> ...


Here we go again!

:roll:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Me too!


I was referring to you and your cohorts, but you are too stupid to know that, My heartfelt sympathy for you and them.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Amazingly simple; there is no amount of money for which you could pay me to work for you (my current billing rate aside).


Actually you are too "simple" to do anything that I would want.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


We do share this earth. So far it's the only planet we live on, and we do have to take care of it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Neither is solar energy. One can find fault with everything. The coal industry has cleaned up its act over the last 30 years. It's not perfect and no one is saying it is. It does have it's place in keeping electricity costs down for the most part. Other countries will gladly buy our coal and use it to keep their costs down.


Just like the Chinese, where their cities are full of coal waste and debris, so you can't go outside, have to wear a mask if you do and do not under any l sell them all the coal they want and allow them to continue to pollute the earth's atmosphere.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I remember seeing a special on TV about that stupidity. How thousands or residents had no water and lost acres of land that was destroyed and many had to abandon their homes/jobs, etc. No common sense at all by the environmentalists.
> 
> I since heard that the fish is overpopulating and destroying other lakes or streams and is becoming a real problem. I don't remember many of the facts, just that the problem is beyond what happened in the immediate area of CA in the original story.


That is what happens when humans mess with Mother Nature.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> By all means goggle it. Have fun, it is an eye opener, so much so it kept Al Gore quiet for quite some time.


We all know you can any amount of studies on the internet, I was hoping to read your study and compare it with others. But if you don't want to share your study, that's OK. However, don't a majority of scientists believe in global warming?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I have an idea. I know, but listen anyway. Why don't you leave the thread, then you won't have to "put up with her" and we won't have to put up with you. It's a win-win for everyone.[/
> 
> Nah, think I'll stay a little longer, it teaches me patience for the intellectually challenged.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Gosh, I must have missed somewhere on here where you were made the Thread God of the day with super powers :roll: :lol:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I didn't say the Polar bears lived in Antartica and you just said you are an independent as compared to me referring to LWNs, so not sure why you are making these false arguments.
> 
> Whatever  oh, yes, and were they DO live they are thriving.


Got that fro Fox News, did you?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Being ever the observant one, you also missed the post where Nussa told KPG to leave the thread. So I guess Nussa and I are both "Thread God of the day with super powers".


Well unlike some of you I don't spend hours on this thread every day, but check in once in a while, and I don't read back for several pages so I guess I did miss that one, so sorry (maybe) !! Have a nice evening.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I never once mentioned Fracking for natural gas....I posted a site about the oil companies burning off the natural gas, when they could be capping it, and making use of it. 
The oil companies are Fracking for OIL!!!
So once again.....KPG, they were right & you were WRONG!
KPG - Quote - (I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you.) 
And very conceited as well.....and not to mention delusional.... :roll: 


knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> You replied to a post on record low temps in Antarctica that the polar bears must be happy. So how was _my_ response to you a "false argument?"
> 
> And I never compared myself to you at all. I merely, in a post on an entirely different subject (this thread has so many), that I am an independent. A simple statement of fact unrelated to you in any way.
> 
> And while polar bears are somewhat stable--declining in many places, doing well in some--overall, they aren't "thriving."


Quite right. You have to read the entire article to find that out though not just the headline, don't they teach that in school?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I take it you haven't followed the discussion recently on energy and nonexistent man-made global warming as claimed by the Libs on this thread. Yes, I responded to a post about record low temps and non-existent warming and stated that the LWNs claim the polar bear population is diminishing (it is not).
> 
> Never did I say the polars live in Antarctica yet you assumed and corrected me for something I did not say. Meanwhile you identified yourself, after my post, as someone other than a LWN which is something I _did_ mention in my post.
> 
> ...


You failed to read the whole article. You must read to the end of it to find out that polar bears are thriving some places and declining in other places. Overall, we can not say Thriving.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> *What is a Mack Daddy?*


A pimp.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Believe me NJG.......you're not the first one who's told her this.....but she seems unable to process that fact. I believe she's a bit delusional, or more than a bit. 
And as for her saintly-hood, I have found that those who are true Christians of the Lord, don't go out advertising, and bragging it....which KPG does at every opportunity... Real Christian there?....very doubtful!


NJG said:


> KPG said I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you. That is fine by me.
> 
> Wrong again, KPG If you had as much class as you pretend you have and even half the knowledge you say you have, you wouldn't be making so many mistakes and telling so many lies. If you were the good Christian you want everyone to believe you are, you wouldn't be so nasty. You can't just voice an opinion about something, you have to slam and trash another person first. So petty, it just proves you don't have the knowledge you say you have so you put the emphasis on the other person instead of the info you are passing along. You think, wrongly of course, that if you trash someone else no one will notice your lack of knowledge. It's not working!


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.


Don't mistake extremes in temperatures -- either up or down -- for a LACK of global warming / climate change. In fact, weather extremes are considered a key indicator of global warming. Did you take any high school chemistry? More heat --> more volatility and more action in general.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I live in Oklahoma .....


Well, that explains a lot.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Believe me NJG.......you're not the first one who's told her this.....but she seems unable to process that fact. I believe she's a bit delusional, or more than a bit.
> And as for her saintly-hood, I have found that those who are true Christians of the Lord, don't go out advertising, and bragging it....which KPG does at every opportunity... Real Christian there?....very doubtful!


And also all the bragging about herself. She is very insecure and has to keep telling herself she is ok. I agree she has some serious problems. I know many Christian people and they do not act and talk like she does.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry......can't take anything written on conservative byte with any credibility.....find an independent site to post from......joeysomma


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> And also all the bragging about herself. She is very insecure and has to keep telling herself she is ok. I agree she has some serious problems. I know many Christian people and they do not act and talk like she does.


 :thumbup:


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