# Worsted vs Double Knit - Pse explain :-)



## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.

Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything 

:roll:


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## purdeygirl (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm so pleased you have asked this question. I have puzzled over this also. In the UK our weights are exactly the same as yours in South Africa 3ply, 4ply, DK etc. It is frustrating not being about to go and obtain the correct yarn without having to hope it's going to work out by using something similar (having worked a swatch. ) I await answers with interest.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


The worsted weight yarns (acrylic) which a kind friend in the States gifted me give a stitch count of 16, row count of 22 for the 10cm tension square on one, using 5.5mm needles (this is a red heart yarn with Love) - the other one I have used - Caron Simply Soft, works up at 18 sts and 24 rows on 5 mm needles both these yarns are apparently # 4 but this does show that there are quite some differences between manufacturers- I did resort to knitting tension squares with both to sort out stitch count!


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## nissa (Jan 5, 2013)

I suggest same as Lurker 2 best is to knit tensions squares, though ply may be different, I sometimes found that stitches per inch match. For Worstead weight try make tension squares of aran weight yearn which is almost same as us Worstead.


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## heather.kearins (May 1, 2011)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


I was of the understanding that worsted and woollen are the two different methods of the spinning technique when the yarn is spun in the factory. You can get both types of spun yarn in all plys of yarn. The needle sizes differ for each ply: 8 ply and double knit are the same weight and they are use 4mm needle size.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

heather.kearins said:


> I was of the understanding that worsted and woollen are the two different methods of the spinning technique when the yarn is spun in the factory. You can get both types of spun yarn in all plys of yarn. The needle sizes differ for each ply: 8 ply and double knit are the same weight and they are use 4mm needle size.


In the British/ NZ system yes that is true- but the US system is out on it's own!


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

When I cataloged my yarn the other week, I had a lot of questions about which was worsted, which DK, which Sport. Fingering and Lace were pretty easy to sort out. I found and downloaded "The Standard Yarn Weight System Handy Chart" from Spinderella's Fiber Mill. It gives all of the yarn weights, but people probably still have to swatch (Ugh!) because as the chart says, manufacturers' weights vary.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

I always thought your Aran weight is closer to worsted weight than DK. I think it is only slightly heavier than worsted. There is some difference in needle recommendations and stitch counts among the different brands of worsted, and even among the different worsted yarns from the same manufacturer, so I think it's all just a matter of swatching to get your gauge right.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Bev, I to live in S.A. i know exactly where you are coming from, when I see a pattern on the web that I just have to knit, I look at the size needles they use, if it call for 4mm or 4.5 mm or 5 mm, then I know I can use double knitting wool, any smaller needle then its 4ply, and any bigger needle then its chunkey, I use this method as a guide, hope this helps you. Maryann


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## heather.kearins (May 1, 2011)

Lurker 2 said:


> In the British/ NZ system yes that is true- but the US system is out on it's own!


Thanks for that info. I thought that must be the case.


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## Pigglezig (Oct 25, 2013)

The worsted weight I got from the States a short while back is the same thickness as tapestry wool, which (I think) is Aran. I'd go with the earlier suggestion of checking required needle size and working from there. It's definitely thicker than DK (well, the stuff I've got, anyway)


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## dawn1960 (Jan 5, 2014)

kathycam said:


> I always thought your Aran weight is closer to worsted weight than DK. I think it is only slightly heavier than worsted. There is some difference in needle recommendations and stitch counts among the different brands of worsted, and even among the different worsted yarns from the same manufacturer, so I think it's all just a matter of swatching to get your gauge right.


That's so true. I normally use aran as a substitute for worsted. Also, DK by different manufacturers does vary sometimes. Have to say I'm a bit too lazy to make a swatch and tend to just 'wing it'!


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## pilotskeemsmom (Oct 14, 2011)

Maybe this will help


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

purdeygirl said:


> I'm so pleased you have asked this question. I have puzzled over this also. In the UK our weights are exactly the same as yours in South Africa 3ply, 4ply, DK etc. It is frustrating not being about to go and obtain the correct yarn without having to hope it's going to work out by using something similar (having worked a swatch. ) I await answers with interest.


Glad I am not the only one - hope we can sort this worsted out!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Lurker 2 said:


> The worsted weight yarns (acrylic) which a kind friend in the States gifted me give a stitch count of 16, row count of 22 for the 10cm tension square on one, using 5.5mm needles (this is a red heart yarn with Love) - the other one I have used - Caron Simply Soft, works up at 18 sts and 24 rows on 5 mm needles both these yarns are apparently # 4 but this does show that there are quite some differences between manufacturers- I did resort to knitting tension squares with both to sort out stitch count!


 Good advice but what if the pattern does not come with a tension square as in a) dogs coat
b) beanie
c) lapgan/afghan
It's a total hit and miss!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

heather.kearins said:


> I was of the understanding that worsted and woollen are the two different methods of the spinning technique when the yarn is spun in the factory. You can get both types of spun yarn in all plys of yarn. The needle sizes differ for each ply: 8 ply and double knit are the same weight and they are use 4mm needle size.


Thanks . Yes 8 ply and dk are the same and while I understand the spinning technique in all plys of yarns why call them dk/worsted/4 ply? Surely they should say "use 3.5mm (or whatever size) needles" instead? Remember, as we don't have worsted we can't see the label or feel the yarn to get an idea of what to use or substitue it with.


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Yah for you cydneyjo&#9829; Thanks for the link. I have downloaded and will have a gander at it later. Many thanks for the link


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

cloud9 said:


> Good advice but what if the pattern does not come with a tension square as in a) dogs coat
> b) beanie
> c) lapgan/afghan
> It's a total hit and miss!


Not necessarily- probably depends on how confident you are with mathematics- I have recently graphed stitch by stitch to get my design correct- when you have worked with a machine you have to get to grips with that!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

maryann1701 said:


> Bev, I to live in S.A. i know exactly where you are coming from, when I see a pattern on the web that I just have to knit, I look at the size needles they use, if it call for 4mm or 4.5 mm or 5 mm, then I know I can use double knitting wool, any smaller needle then its 4ply, and any bigger needle then its chunkey, I use this method as a guide, hope this helps you. Maryann


Hi from Kaap Stad Maryann. Actually this is getting beyond a joke with our yarn. We seem to have one supplier and their yarn is sub standard. I am wishing and hoping that Walmart open here asap. With the R so very weak nobody in this neck of the woods is importing due to the exchange rate. I would love samples of yarn, like Carons, Red heart, Baby Soft.


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Pigglezig said:


> The worsted weight I got from the States a short while back is the same thickness as tapestry wool, which (I think) is Aran. I'd go with the earlier suggestion of checking required needle size and working from there. It's definitely thicker than DK (well, the stuff I've got, anyway)


Thanks for the info re: tapestry wool! Something to judge by.
Our Aran is much thicker, its 12 ply. I very seldom use it because its way to thick to wear in our climate.


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Cl-9: if there is no tension square swatch then the differences are probably negligible. The needle size will be the determinant. KISS-concept here.


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

dawn1960 said:


> That's so true. I normally use aran as a substitute for worsted. Also, DK by different manufacturers does vary sometimes. Have to say I'm a bit too lazy to make a swatch and tend to just 'wing it'!


 lol- yep I would like to wing it too but with dk )


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

pilotskeemsmom said:


> Maybe this will help


It does♥ Many thanks for the picture, very much appreciated


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Youall got me interested...so went to find out that 'worsted' yarn is a technique in which the wool/other fibres are made to be parallel as much as possible before twisting into yarn; this involves several extra steps so costlier but 1]stronger and 2]smooth --not fuzzy. It usually falls within a certain width or gauge, but the gauge is not the only determinant of 'worsted' --you can have fuzzy, ribbon or non-worsted yarns of the same thickness. By common meaning, it has come to mean a 'general' gauge. So when you say 'worsted' you may be talking of different things --there is the confusion.


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Knitish said:


> Cl-9: if there is no tension square swatch then the differences are probably negligible. The needle size will be the determinant. KISS-concept here.


 lol - very familiar with KISS concept. Would just like to know the basic mm needles to use with worsted


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

cloud9 said:


> lol - very familiar with KISS concept. Would just like to know the basic mm needles to use with worsted


Here in the states, in yarn made within the last, say, 15 or 20 years, the label usually shows the suggested needle and hook size for the average needle worker to get the approximate tension/guage. That's only a guideline, a starting point, to help you get closer to the right gauge without a lot of guesswork. If you're making an afghan or a neck scarf, etc., I'd go by the feel of the yarn. I will tell you that, if you use DK on an afghan that calls for worsted, unless you adjust your width with extra pattern repeats and your length with extra rows, you're going to have a lapghan. And if you're making something fitted, you are wise to swatch.

Seems to me that worsted usually says US needle size 8 to 9, hook "I".

DK is what we used to call sport weight yarn and I recall using US needle sizes 4 to 6, depending, hook "F" or "G".

I can't back this up but I'm 90 percent sure I read this on a KP post somewhere, so it wouldn't hurt to give it a test. The person said that she uses two strands of DK as a substitute for one strand of worsted.

I have so much worsted that I never needed to check this out. But since you have lots of DK, why don't you try using size 8 needles with two strands of DK and knit up a swatch based on your next project. Check the gauge and see how close you are.

You may discover something that could end all this confusion.


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## Pigglezig (Oct 25, 2013)

cloud9 said:


> Thanks for the info re: tapestry wool! Something to judge by.
> Our Aran is much thicker, its 12 ply. I very seldom use it because its way to thick to wear in our climate.


Lol! Check my address 😉

Isn't 12ply chunky? Aran is closer to what was called hunky (!) when I was a kid. Maybe we just had funny names in Durban 

Incidentally,the wool I'm talking about came from Herrschners.com. their sales process are good and even with the ex rate and shipping,it was less than i would have paid locally. The trick is to keep an eye on total weight.as long as it's below a certain amount they send it usps,which is postal service there but couriered once out gets here.if it gets too much the shipping changes to ups and that's prohibitive. Btw blacksheepyarn.co.uk is offering free shipping until the 26th.this includes international! Obviously it's in pounds but they have some really good sales prices and for a special jersey it's worth it .


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

KroSha said:


> Here in the states, in yarn made within the last, say, 15 or 20 years, the label usually shows the suggested needle and hook size for the average needle worker to get the approximate tension/guage. That's only a guideline, a starting point, to help you get closer to the right gauge without a lot of guesswork. If you're making an afghan or a neck scarf, etc., I'd go by the feel of the yarn. I will tell you that, if you use DK on an afghan that calls for worsted, unless you adjust your width with extra pattern repeats and your length with extra rows, you're going to have a lapghan. And if you're making something fitted, you are wise to swatch.
> Seems to me that worsted usually says US needle size 8 to 9, hook "I".
> 
> DK is what we used to call sport weight yarn and I recall using US needle sizes 4 to 6, depending, hook "F" or "G".
> ...


Thanks so much♥ I will try 2 strands of Dk on 4mm needles, very help advice!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Pigglezig said:


> Lol! Check my address &#55357;&#56841;
> 
> Isn't 12ply chunky? Aran is closer to what was called hunky (!) when I was a kid. Maybe we just had funny names in Durban
> 
> Incidentally,the wool I'm talking about came from Herrschners.com. their sales process are good and even with the ex rate and shipping,it was less than i would have paid locally. The trick is to keep an eye on total weight.as long as it's below a certain amount they send it usps,which is postal service there but couriered once out gets here.if it gets too much the shipping changes to ups and that's prohibitive. Btw blacksheepyarn.co.uk is offering free shipping until the 26th.this includes international! Obviously it's in pounds but they have some really good sales prices and for a special jersey it's worth it .


 lol!! I was so busy with this worsted lark, I never noticed your location. You have even less need for aran than I have! Durbans winters are like our summers..hehehe. Thanks for the links, I think I am going to have to start importing.


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## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

DK is (supposed to be) Nm (m/g) between 2.4 and Worsted	would be between Nm 4 and 4.5. And you can always calculate the Nm value from the information about length and mass on the label, if it doesn't specify what Nm it is.


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## Pigglezig (Oct 25, 2013)

cloud9 said:


> lol!! I was so busy with this worsted lark, I never noticed your location. You have even less need for aran than I have! Durbans winters are like our summers..hehehe. Thanks for the links, I think I am going to have to start importing.


Been in Joburg for 20 years... the aran comes in handy


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

HandyFamily said:


> DK is (supposed to be) Nm (m/g) between 2.4 and Worsted	would be between Nm 4 and 4.5. And you can always calculate the Nm value from the information about length and mass on the label, if it doesn't specify what Nm it is.


Thanks so much! There is something I never thought of


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Pigglezig said:


> Been in Joburg for 20 years... the aran comes in handy


Yes aran comes in very handy for you in Joey's. Here its more the wind chill so we doff beanies and cowls for outside then whip them off when we get indoors.


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

Aran is a 10 ply yarn in England as well as Australia, if I am correct NZ as well. 8 ply (DK) is a far as I know is light worsted in America.


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## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

cloud9 said:


> Thanks so much! There is something I never thought of


Hm, I just realized I somehow failed to fill the limit for DK - it was supposed to be 
"DK is Nm (m/g) between 2.4 and 3"


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## avril (May 4, 2011)

Hello, do not know if this is any help or not. I know that in USA they also have light worsted, which is the equivalent of double knitting. Avril in Uk, who has just got off of the phone talking to her younger brother in Cape Town.


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## Coral McRae (Jul 23, 2013)

I was told at the wool shop it was a process, and not a ply. So I have done my homework, and I think almost a chumky wool is the same. I bought some worsted from Nurturing Fibres in the Cape (BTW divine), and it is quite a thick yarn. But is it the same as the US worsted? More questions than answers!


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

mavisb said:


> Aran is a 10 ply yarn in England as well as Australia, if I am correct NZ as well. 8 ply (DK) is a far as I know is light worsted in America.


That is correct, Mavis! I would count (American) Worsted as being a little lighter than a 10 ply.


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## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

I find in the UK that the terms DK, 4ply are no longer consistent between manufacturs. I recently bought Robin DK which should have knitted to gauge on UK size 8 needles, produced a very thin open knit and had to go down to a size 9 to produce a decent knit. It used to be that if you bought DK it would be the same thickness whoever made it.


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## Brabant (Jan 31, 2014)

Well done, thanks for leading the way to this useful chart. As in all things, a bit of information goes a long way. If only manufacturers could be less xenophobic and accept that people substitue yarns for any number of good reasons, then perhaps they might sign on to a standard system......
Dream on?



cydneyjo said:


> When I cataloged my yarn the other week, I had a lot of questions about which was worsted, which DK, which Sport. Fingering and Lace were pretty easy to sort out. I found and downloaded "The Standard Yarn Weight System Handy Chart" from Spinderella's Fiber Mill. It gives all of the yarn weights, but people probably still have to swatch (Ugh!) because as the chart says, manufacturers' weights vary.


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## Brabant (Jan 31, 2014)

Also I find it always better to go by length of yarn rather than weight when buying. Now why can't that be standard too? I don't mean a standard amount, impossible - no I mean standard to publish that fact. Most South American, Italian, Franch and German yarns do that and fortunately that is what I use but when it comes to substitution I have to search and search to find out the length on many American yarns. Sigh.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Brabant said:


> Also I find it always better to go by length of yarn rather than weight when buying. Now why can't that be standard too? I don't mean a standard amount, impossible - no I mean standard to publish that fact. Most South American, Italian, Franch and German yarns do that and fortunately that is what I use but when it comes to substitution I have to search and search to find out the length on many American yarns. Sigh.


The largely Chinese sourced yarns easily available here also normally have at least an approximate yardage/meter length. I am not sure about our New Zealand yarns because I can seldom afford top of the range yarns.


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## Kaiess (Jan 25, 2013)

HandyFamily said:


> "DK is Nm (m/g) between 2.4 and 3"


No doubt I'm being a bit dull this morning but what does "Nm (m/g)" mean?

I'm thinking N= needles and m = millimetres but does g = grams? So what does "Nm (m/g)" mean?

Sorry if I'm being stupid - I should be awake as it's five past midday here! :roll: :lol:


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## GreenGrandma (Dec 27, 2013)

Wow! As an intermittent knitter with limited experience, I'm in awe of the knowledge/information that this group has/provides to others. Thanks!


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

Talking of wool weights, plys and needles, I'm just about to cast on a baby blanket (http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/honeycomb-stroller-blanket) This pattern calls for DK wool but a needle size of 6mm, given some of the previous comments would this be correct? Has anyone made this? Did it come out ok on those needles? (BTW I'm in the UK but I can't seem to make it show that. Another blond day LOL)


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## Brabant (Jan 31, 2014)

Er no, I join the "huh, what was that?" party. Maybe someone will explain - me, too, no clue.


Kaiess said:


> No doubt I'm being a bit dull this morning but what does "Nm (m/g)" mean?
> 
> I'm thinking N= needles and m = millimetres but does g = grams? So what does "Nm (m/g)" mean?
> 
> Sorry if I'm being stupid - I should be awake as it's five past midday here! :roll: :lol:


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

deskdoll said:


> Talking of wool weights, plys and needles, I'm just about to cast on a baby blanket (http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/honeycomb-stroller-blanket) This pattern calls for DK wool but a needle size of 6mm, given some of the previous comments would this be correct? Has anyone made this? Did it come out ok on those needles? (BTW I'm in the UK but I can't seem to make it show that. Another blond day LOL)


That comes up as an incorrect link, dear- I would say 6mm is very open for DK- I normally head for a 4mm to start with- but as I cannot see the design would have to put this forward as only tentative!


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

Sorry L2, I'll try it again maybe it was the brackets -
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/honeycomb-stroller-blanket


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## conniesews (Jul 16, 2011)

After knitting my beautiful Olympic ski hat this winter and having it come out 3 sizes too big for anyone except the Hulk, I will always make a swatch. The Fair Isle reindeer are beautiful but unless I make a pillow with it, I have to frog. I did learn Fair Isle though. LOL


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## Pigglezig (Oct 25, 2013)

Not sure whether this will help matters, or stir the pot further, but maybe this comparison with local wool will clarify:

(Not sure which way around this will show, as it's reversed in one gfx program but not the other. Go figure...).

On the left (hopefully, but if not, the right ie the skinny side):
Chick 4-ply Baby (the stuff from Checkers)
4-ply baby courtelle (Elle, I think, but can't find band)
Elle Elite DK (4mm needles)
Mexican Wave DK (I've seen it called Aran weight, and it is marginally thicker than the DK next to it)
American worsted (4.5 to 5.5mm)
Patons chunky (6mm)
Galaxy super/mega chunky (9 to 12mm)


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## silversurfer (Nov 25, 2013)

Ignore what the yarn is called. You compare the gauge given on the pattern with the gauge given on the ball band of the yarn. If necessary you can adjust the gauge by using a size larger or smaller needle.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

deskdoll said:


> Sorry L2, I'll try it again maybe it was the brackets -
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/honeycomb-stroller-blanket


Right that works! It certainly is open- could be OK on the 6mm's but will then depend on how tight or loose a knitter you are- Is your tension normally accurate- or standard!?


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

I couldn't get your link to work, so I'm trying to re post it here:

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/honeycomb-stroller-blanket


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

My tension is pretty accurate.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

deskdoll said:


> My tension is pretty accurate.


You may have to do a swatch just to be sure baby is not going to push fingers through the fabric- I heard an awful story recently of a darling who died because circulation to fingers was cut off, when the fingers got entwined in the blanket.


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

Yeah, sorry about that Krosha, I shouldn't gave bothered with the brackets.


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

Deffo don't like the sound of that. I'm going to swatch on smaller needles. Better safe than sorry.


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## deskdoll (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks v much for your advice.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

deskdoll said:


> Deffo don't like the sound of that. I'm going to swatch on smaller needles. Better safe than sorry.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## knittingnanna19 (Nov 6, 2013)

Brabant said:


> Er no, I join the "huh, what was that?" party. Maybe someone will explain - me, too, no clue.


Think I will have to join that club too.

Good question about yarn guages , weights and names. I go round and round in circles trying to get it sorted. :?: :-o :|


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## Deenasan (Apr 7, 2013)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


I have been curious about that and did a little research. I put the info on a sheet similar to what has already been posted. There is also a WPI (wrap per inch) component, ply, and yards/lb to add to the mix. At the bottom of my sheet, I put the American, english, and Australian equivalents. And of course highlighted stuff. It may help a little
I carry it with me all the time (hence the worn appearance). I carried it with me on my trip to Oz and will carry it with me to Scotland! That and a chart that gives you approximate yardage needed to complete certain projects! Very helpful for me. Just a little research was all it took. The original paper came from www.craftyarncouncil.com/weight.html but I don't remember the other websites I went to.


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## past (Apr 3, 2011)

I found this conversion chart because since finding KP I've started working patterns designed by our friends across the pond. Since you are in South Africa I am going to assume that you are more likely seeing your information based on UK weights and sizes.

http://www.angelyarns.com/yarn/charts.php


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## Sheralynn (Jul 22, 2012)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


Hi, I also live in South Africa. I normally substitute African Expressions yarn as their Joy range has almost identical yardage to most worsted weight and is available in our yarn shops. If you go to www.naturalyarns.co.za or www.nurturingfibres.co.za they both stock worsted weight yarn but can be pricey as they only do natural fibres and luxury yarns. You can also call Arthur Bales in Joburg as they import a huge range of yarns if you really want the exact yarn used in a pattern but that can also be expensive. Nurturing Fibres has a studio in Eastern Cape if you're close enough to pay a visit. Sorry for doing such a long message but I'm trying to cover everything I can think of that's relevant :-o


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

I generally subsititute aran for worsted in the UK. I have also, with success, used a strand of dk and a strand of 3ply together to create a worsted equivalent- 2 strands of dk are more like uk chunky IMO.
Frustrating as it is, swatch is the only way to go where gauge is critical-I usually adjust needle/hook size accordingly then.

It's also true that makes vary. I used a uk dk yarn for a uk dk crochet pattern and had to use a smaller hook because it was coming up too big- yet witha different dk yarn the tension was perfect!


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## Brooklyn (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks for asking


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


In the US, worsted weight yarn is heavier, or thicker than DK weight yarn. It is my understanding that worsted weight is similar to Aran weight elsewhere... Not sure though.
Jane


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## carmicv (Mar 21, 2014)

20 years ago my mum would go back "home" to England. Empty suitcase in tow to bring back DK.


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## Maisie17 (Aug 12, 2013)

I find this site good. helps with needle size, wool difference etc

http://www.knitting.stuff.freeuk.com/ConversionTables2.html


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## Pigglezig (Oct 25, 2013)

Deenasan said:


> I have been curious about that and did a little research. I put the info on a sheet similar to what has already been posted....


 :thumbup:


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## SherryH (Apr 4, 2011)

Wouldn't it be lovely if all the yarn producers/manufacturers got together and made one standard...then passed it on to all of us. It would be nice to look at a pattern and know exactly what size yarn you need with which needles/hooks no matter where in the world you live or visit.


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

SherryH said:


> Wouldn't it be lovely if all the yarn producers/manufacturers got together and made one standard...then passed it on to all of us. It would be nice to look at a pattern and know exactly what size yarn you need with which needles/hooks no matter where in the world you live or visit.


One can dream!


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## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Brabant said:


> Er no, I join the "huh, what was that?" party. Maybe someone will explain - me, too, no clue.


" No doubt I'm being a bit dull this morning but what does "Nm (m/g)" mean? "

[meters / grams]

Length-in-merer-per-1-gram.


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## Mairs (Nov 11, 2013)

When I am unsure I do a wrap per inch test and then refer to a chart to see what type of yarn it is. Much quicker than a swatch test .


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## Mosangra (Mar 5, 2014)

I knit hats for my grandkids this winter, in colors to match their coats, so was working with half-a-dozen different ones, all labeled worsted. Even within the same brand and weight of yarn, I found a significant variation in both thickness of yarn and yardage per skein. One hat was red-and-black together -- when I was done I had enough red left to roll into a fist-sized ball, but barely enough black to work in the ends.


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## Catarry (Apr 10, 2012)

heather.kearins said:


> I was of the understanding that worsted and woollen are the two different methods of the spinning technique when the yarn is spun in the factory. You can get both types of spun yarn in all plys of yarn. The needle sizes differ for each ply: 8 ply and double knit are the same weight and they are use 4mm needle size.


The use of 'worsted' to designate the spinning technique has been overtaken by manufacturers using it to designate a weight of yarn.

When patterns speak of Worsted weight yarn, the designer is expecting that you will use what US manufacturers and many others label as a 4 or Medium weight yarn.

In terms used in the UK and Commonwealth or former Commonwealth countries, Worsted weight is 10 ply, as is Aran, although Aran is a little heavier and will swatch to measure with fewer stitches. DK (double knitting) is equivalent to an 8 ply.

Here is a reliable chart from Ravelry.com, an international site with about 3 million yarn enthusiasts.

http://www.ravelry.com/help/yarn/weights

_ Yikes...I didn't realize there had been so many replies already! Hope I added something of value._


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Catarry said:


> The use of 'worsted' to designate the spinning technique has been overtaken by manufacturers using it to designate a weight of yarn.
> 
> When patterns speak of Worsted weight yarn, the designer is expecting that you will use what US manufacturers and many others label as a 4 or Medium weight yarn.
> 
> ...


Not down here it ain't.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

It doesn't matter what I make I always have to do a tension square.. if the pattern doesn't say.... then the size shouldn't make a lot of difference.. other wise it would guide you towards the correct stitches per inch ...
Worsted and Aran are used interchangeably .. possibly Sport and DK could be used interchangeably if you do your tension squares you will know what size needle to use...


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## peacefulknitter (Mar 30, 2013)

past said:


> I found this conversion chart because since finding KP I've started working patterns designed by our friends across the pond. Since you are in South Africa I am going to assume that you are more likely seeing your information based on UK weights and sizes.
> 
> http://www.angelyarns.com/yarn/charts.php


This a great site, thank you for posting.


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## BailaC (Sep 25, 2013)

Since most of the yarn I use is bought in the US, I never concern myself with terms like worsted, aran, dk, etc. (and we don't describe yarns in terms of ply). The only thing I concern myself with is the gauge/tension listed on the band (stitches/rows per 4" or 10cm), the suggested needle size (as a starting place when I do a gauge swatch) and the yardage (which contrary to what someone else said is always on the band somewhere, although you may have to hunt a bit. These are precise measurements, and not fuzzy terms like worsted. If the tension stated on the band is the same as requested in the pattern (assuming similar fiber content), you shouln't have a problem substituting. Still have to do a guage swatch, however.


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## pengwensgranny (Aug 3, 2011)

UK Chunky Knit comes between Double Knit and Aran. Perhaps that is the equivalent of worsted.
Just a thought.


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## gail-11 (Jan 3, 2013)

DK is usually 22 sts per inch and lighter than worsted. Unless I am wrong, I think DK would be the same as your 8 or 10 weight.
Worsted is usually 18 sts per inch, which would be more like your aran yarn.


cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


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## Kadydee (Apr 28, 2011)

I found this chart very helpful. But it doesn't say anything about worsted weight being 10 ply.

Here's the link:

http://blog.lionbrand.com/2011/07/31/what-is-fingeringsocksportdkworsted-weight-yarn/

Kathy


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## Brabant (Jan 31, 2014)

Now why didn't I think of Ravelry. Of course they help - they always do. Brilliant chart - well pointed out. Cheers, crumbs it's snowing here in the Bavarian Forest..... sigh, Saturday blue skys, sun 22 degrees, today snow.......................


Catarry said:


> The use of 'worsted' to designate the spinning technique has been overtaken by manufacturers using it to designate a weight of yarn.
> 
> When patterns speak of Worsted weight yarn, the designer is expecting that you will use what US manufacturers and many others label as a 4 or Medium weight yarn.
> 
> ...


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## Kadydee (Apr 28, 2011)

After my previous post I found the ravelry post and there it does has worsted weight as 10 ply. 

Kathy


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

Kadydee said:


> After my previous post I found the ravelry post and there it does has worsted weight as 10 ply.
> 
> Kathy


Ours is HEAVIER then the American Worsteds I have had access to!


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

Almost all patterns will give gauge (tension) information at the beginning of the pattern in the section that tells what size needles to use and other necessary info for making the pattern. Generally it is done on a 4" square though I know many people feel they get a truer gauge on a larger swatch. In the states, DK (Double Knitting) is a slightly smaller yarn than Worsted and Aran is slightly larger than Worsted. It doesn't matter if it is wool or acrylic. The skein usually will tell you the size. Sometimes Aran and Worsted are just about interchangeable, and at other times, Aran is significantly larger. To get your gauge, you might have to adjust the size of your needles. But beware. Just getting gauge isn't the only thing. If you adjust your needles up or down, or if you use the wrong size yarn, you might get gauge, but you might not get the look and feel of the item the pattern intends. For example, trying to get a DK up to a worsted weight by using larger needles than recommended for the yarn might give you fabric that is too loosely knitted. And if you use a larger yarn and adjust your needles down to get gauge, your fabric would be too stiff and tightly knitted.


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## jojoacker62 (Jun 10, 2013)

This chart gives UK, NZ and US. Good luck !

http://www.karpstyles.com/yarn_conversion.html


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## ColeenThompson (Jan 6, 2014)

I've always thought that the weight referred to the ply of the yarn such as worsted weight is 4 ply, sport weight is 3 ply. I know this way of thinking is probably wrong and I have gotten confused when reading some of the patterns. Because of this, swatching would probably always be a good idea (even though I don't do it as often as I should!).


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## Melodypop (Jul 18, 2011)

I did the same thing, what size yarn did you use. Mine are still sitting on the needles. The reindeers' are 2/3s done.


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## jojoacker62 (Jun 10, 2013)

She is in Canada.



jojoacker62 said:


> This chart gives UK, NZ and US. Good luck !
> 
> http://www.karpstyles.com/yarn_conversion.html


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## cathyschuetze (Aug 13, 2012)

I found a very useful website that has a way to calculate stitch and row changes when you want to use a different yarn for a pattern. It is: http://www.thedietdiary.com/knittingfiend/OrderForms/conversion%20pages/ConversionPage.html

You will need to do a swatch first in the yarn you are substituting. Row count is important too. I found that out the hard way :-(


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## EqLady (Sep 1, 2011)

Here are a couple of web sites with useful yarn weight information.

http://www.spinderellas.com/Yarn%20Weights%20and%20Measures.pdf

http://www.freshstitches.com/length-of-yarn-by-weight-how-to-calculate/


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## Demack (Aug 31, 2013)

Great chart. I like that manufacturers will use the yarn symbol with the corresponding number. You still have to make a swatch yo check gauge but I use the symbols as a starting point when using unfamiliar yarn


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## Knitsey (Mar 24, 2014)

I have knit for 50 years and worked in a yarn shop on and off for the last 10 years (teaching classes). ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make a gauge. Even 2 stitches off can make a huge difference in how things fit. Why spend precious time on a bad end result?


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## Ellen Kerr (Feb 25, 2013)

Yardage/weight is what I go by before knitting a swatch.


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## NJQuiet1 (Feb 15, 2013)

Here's another chart I've found helpful in the past. It specifically shows ply for different areas of the world and compares to other descriptors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarn_weight


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## Ruth Ray (Dec 31, 2012)

I was taught that DK and Sport weight are interchangeable, and that 2 strands would equal one strand of worsted.
But I have also learned that ANY yarn can differ from any other yarn of the alleged same weight.
Read this:
http://www.planetjune.com/blog/worsted-weight-yarn-comparison/
I think it is like clothing - a certain size in one brand can be too small or too large compared to another brand.


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## Rainyday (Jul 9, 2013)

pengwensgranny said:


> UK Chunky Knit comes between Double Knit and Aran. Perhaps that is the equivalent of worsted.
> Just a thought.


Yes I think you may be right. I have found that most (not all though) worsted patterns knit to the same tension/gauge as UK chunky.


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## Lndyf9 (Jul 6, 2013)

I use the spinderella chart too I find it invaluable especially as I get a lot of unlabelled yarn donated to me for my charity knitting


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

avril said:


> Hello, do not know if this is any help or not. I know that in USA they also have light worsted, which is the equivalent of double knitting. Avril in Uk, who has just got off of the phone talking to her younger brother in Cape Town.


Thanks Avril . lol your brother is here and my brother is in Countesthorpe Leicestershire! Small world, huh? I think my next move is to get samples of the available worsted weight yarn that is available in UK and USA. I think lengths of 8 inches attached, at the top, to some card stock with the manufactures name at the top!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

mavisb said:


> Aran is a 10 ply yarn in England as well as Australia, if I am correct NZ as well. 8 ply (DK) is a far as I know is light worsted in America.


Tks for info - according to my 2 lys they say that the Aran here is 12ply but I will ask them if they are sure. If it is 10 ply my troubles are solved!


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## janwalla (Jul 17, 2012)

Lion brand has a good explanation i have tried to attach it hope it helps


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## Kaiess (Jan 25, 2013)

janwalla said:


> Lion brand has a good explanation i have tried to attach it hope it helps


Hey janwalla - it's a long time since I've seen Penshaw Monument! :-D 
Thanks for the link.


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks Coral Mcrae. I have been onto their web site and it does look great. Limited in colours though but well worth a visit. Thanks for the link and will look into chunky/aran = worsted.

@Lurker 2, yes that was I was told by the local yarn shops  American worsted is (in general) 10 ply. If I wanted to use DK (8ply) what adjustments length and needle wise? If I were crocheting an Afghan is the general rule of thumb add 10 sts and use 3.75mm needles?

Hear, hear Brabant. Maybe we should start a revolution &#61514;

Pigglezig  very helpful! At least I have clue with American worsted. If I look at yarn I must see the needle size of 4.5 to 5.5mm on the band. Thanks very much for uploading.

Deenasan  I have download your chart and it will stay firmly tucked in my knitting files. Thanks a million for sharing this valuable info &#9829;

Past, yes we do go on UK size. Many thanks for the link, it was very helpful.

Sheralynn  brilliant links. For some reason our lys store only (mostly) stocks Elle. Thanks for the links, I am going on line shopping after I have finished here!

sarah66, yes I think I am going to give that try. It makes sense to me using a dk and a 3ply. Thanks for the tip &#9829;

Thank you one and all for your amazing links, tips, advice and downloads. Ladies please give yourself a huge pat on the back from me.

I am surfing the links and writing down all you have told me. Because of you, wonderful ladies, I have a much better understanding of worsted and how I can substitute.

I am over awed at your generosity in sharing with me.

Thanks to you one and all &#9829;
Bev


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## Dansmarin (Apr 12, 2011)

I came across this chart from the Craft Yarn Council. Hope it helps. http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/?q=weight.html


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## Lurker 2 (Sep 2, 2011)

cloud9 said:


> ...
> 
> @Lurker 2, yes that was I was told by the local yarn shops  American worsted is (in general) 10 ply. If I wanted to use DK (8ply) what adjustments length and needle wise? If I were crocheting an Afghan is the general rule of thumb add 10 sts and use 3.75mm needles?
> ...
> ...


As has been showing up in the various replies- American Worsted is quite variable- as evidently is DK now in the UK. I always start with a 4mm needle for double knit- how critical is your sizing? if it is merely an afghan or lapghan- this would not be a major problem, IMHO. a 3.75 mm crochet hook would give a fairly firm fabric, again just my opinion. I don't do a lot of crochet. I would seriously be recommending swatching- I know it is boring- mine are always shorter than the 10 cm. because I reckon I know how to measure length!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Lurker 2 said:


> As has been showing up in the various replies- American Worsted is quite variable- as evidently is DK now in the UK. I always start with a 4mm needle for double knit- how critical is your sizing? if it is merely an afghan or lapghan- this would not be a major problem, IMHO. a 3.75 mm crochet hook would give a fairly firm fabric, again just my opinion. I don't do a lot of crochet. I would seriously be recommending swatching- I know it is boring- mine are always shorter than the 10 cm. because I reckon I know how to measure length!


 I have to do some homework with all the links. Like finding out how many stitch=what is worsted. Sizing not critical at this stage


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Dansmarin said:


> I came across this chart from the Craft Yarn Council. Hope it helps. http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/?q=weight.html


Very helpful, thanks ))


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## suzybcool (Sep 30, 2012)

cloud9 said:


> Where I live we don't get worsted weight yarn. We go from 4ply, double knit, Aran or Chunky. I have Googled the difference and it tells me that Worsted is 10 ply and we don't have 10ply :thumbdown: Double knit is 8ply and Aran is way to thick.
> 
> Now for the question from all you helpful fundis! I have several patterns that call for worsted weight and I have to adapt the patterns to double knit. Is there a standard (fool proof) way to do this? ie: Where the worsted pattern calls for 4mm/4.5mm needles should I use 3mm/3.5mm using double knit? Is there a standard chart on line that gives the adaption for cm, yarn weight and needle size? I have Googled but not come up with anything
> 
> :roll:


In my experience there is not much difference between double weight and worsted except for where the yarn was spun. However everyone knits with a slightly different tension. My advice is to stop worrying about what it is called and worry about getting the fabric you want from your knitting. I always purchase a skein of the desired yarn before I begin a project and knit swatches. I use YO's to designate the needle size on each swatch so I know which needles I used to make the swatch. Each swatch is treated as the finished garment will be treated. Once I determine which fabric I want I then measure for gauge, figure my yardage then purchase the yarn for the project. I will also go through the pattern and make adjustments for my gauge swatch during the rereading process. I will read the pattern several times before I begin knitting. You may note in some patterns that the gauge is determined by using a pattern stitch rather than the usual stockingette stitch.


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## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

This is always an interesting discussion. 
In the US, there are several systems for yarn classification each with its own terminology. 
Many people have commented that Aran is heavier than worsted, but in the US, Aran is placed in the same category as worsted. However, every yarn classification has a range and if you knitted a 4" x 4"/20cm x 20cm swatch for dozen worsted yarns, using the same needles, you would have a dozen different sized swatches.
Open this link to see and read about the differences among eight different worsted weight yarns: http://www.planetjune.com/blog/worsted-weight-yarn-comparison/
All of the yarns in the lower photo are classified as worsted and were knit with the same needles by the same person. 
To me, this means that the most meaningful definition of yarn size are stitches per inch. There are a range of those too, so it all boils down to a mystical guess.
Suzybcool, in the message above, has an excellent suggestion, swatch what you have and make whatever adjustments you need for the pattern. You can clearly see you will need to make adjustments in needle size to accommodate all the differences in the various worsted yarns in the photo. Still, it's nice to have a classification for the yarn you are using to give you a starting place.

Craft Yarn Council's "Official" classifications: http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/weight.html


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I must admit I have never come across Nm (m/g) before. You are certainly not stupid Kajess. Handy Family come from Bulgaria so there is a difference. g to me stands for gram, m could mean metre but Nm not sure at all.

With DK it means we should all just do a swatch which I have never done. He! He!


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## Ferol Pat (Jun 18, 2013)

http://www.theknittingsite.com/knitting-conversion-tables/
Also had this problem in South Africa
here is a website that has needles and wool thickness conversions


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

suzybcool said:


> In my experience there is not much difference between double weight and worsted except for where the yarn was spun. However everyone knits with a slightly different tension. My advice is to stop worrying about what it is called and worry about getting the fabric you want from your knitting. I always purchase a skein of the desired yarn before I begin a project and knit swatches. I use YO's to designate the needle size on each swatch so I know which needles I used to make the swatch. Each swatch is treated as the finished garment will be treated. Once I determine which fabric I want I then measure for gauge, figure my yardage then purchase the yarn for the project. I will also go through the pattern and make adjustments for my gauge swatch during the rereading process. I will read the pattern several times before I begin knitting. You may note in some patterns that the gauge is determined by using a pattern stitch rather than the usual stockingette stitch.


Sound advice - I will follow it. Thanks


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Dansmarin said:


> I came across this chart from the Craft Yarn Council. Hope it helps. http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/?q=weight.html


Thanks for pointing me in the right direction


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

MaryE-B said:


> This is always an interesting discussion.
> In the US, there are several systems for yarn classification each with its own terminology.
> Many people have commented that Aran is heavier than worsted, but in the US, Aran is placed in the same category as worsted. However, every yarn classification has a range and if you knitted a 4" x 4"/20cm x 20cm swatch for dozen worsted yarns, using the same needles, you would have a dozen different sized swatches.
> Open this link to see and read about the differences among eight different worsted weight yarns: http://www.planetjune.com/blog/worsted-weight-yarn-comparison/
> ...


Thanks so much for your imput, it's very much appreciated. The samples you posted were very thought provoking and it looks like I am going to have to swatch.....ugh!


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## cloud9 (Nov 18, 2012)

Ferol Pat said:


> http://www.theknittingsite.com/knitting-conversion-tables/
> Also had this problem in South Africa
> here is a website that has needles and wool thickness conversions


You in Jo'burg Pat? Thanks for the link, I have not seen this site before . I am glad South Africans are posting also saying that our yarn & sizing is not great :-(.


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## Ferol Pat (Jun 18, 2013)

Yes in Florida, Jhb, my first name is Ferol
very nice site people knit amazing things very impressive
regards


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## suzybcool (Sep 30, 2012)

cloud9 said:


> Thanks so much for your imput, it's very much appreciated. The samples you posted were very thought provoking and it looks like I am going to have to swatch.....ugh!


Swatching is not so bad if you are making wash cloths or soap holders etc.


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