# what am I missing



## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.

Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things. 

For instance, if someone has trouble estimating how long a tail to use for a long tail cast on, the advice given is how to estimate it a different way. However, using a knitted cast on or a cable cast on (among others) completely and always solves the problem because there is absolutely zero estimating required.

Another question is how to keep track of where you are when you stop knitting. Most of the advice was always knit a complete row and write down which row you are on. Only a few people suggested that you can count the stitches on the needle. Sometimes, its just not possible to finish a row. Life things happen. It's always possible to count the stitches on your needle.

I have seen other questions, but these were the 2 that stuck the mist in my mind.

So my question is, what am I missing? I don't have that much experience, so I am guessing that I am overlooking something in my quest for doing things as practically as possible.


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## countryknitwit (Nov 13, 2011)

I always use the long-tail cast on because it is the most versitle cast-on and the one most patterns recommend. I do not like the look of the other cast-ons, although will use them if the designer recommends it.
The advice regarding always finishing a row is good--it is a good habit to get into. I also count stitches at the end of each row to make sure I didn't drop one; I have been known to drop a stitch and inadvertently correct it in another row, and been left with a dangling stitch.
The advice you get on here is tried and true by experienced knitters. If you think your ways work, then use them.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I try to finish my rows, but let's say I have a 200 stitch row and I have so stop and sign for a package... By knowing how to figure out where I am in a row, I know I am safe to stop and start back up again in 5 minutes or 5 weeks. Also, since I know which side my yarn in on, I don't run the risk of accidentally working backwards.

As far as casting on, one of my friends ripped out a blanket 4 times because she mis-estimated. I never waste yarn casting on or waste time because I have to restart. I'll have to take some of my work to the local yarn shop and ask her to look at my edges and see if they look odd to her.

I don't doubt that there might be reasons to do things certain ways, but a lot of the reasons seem to come down to "that's how I was taught to do it and this is how I cope with it. I guess I just don't think you should have to cope with things if there is a simpler way that yields good results.


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## casey1952 (Jul 8, 2011)

I can work on the two questions you asked.
If you have, say, 100 sts to cast on, you can cast on ten, take them off the needle, then measure that yarn and multply it by ten. That should give you a good estimate of how much to measure off for the long tail cast on.
When you stop knitting in the middle of a row using straight needles there is a good chance you will distort the stitches at the ends of the two needles. If you're using circs, pull the knitting back onto the cables. The stitches don't pull like they do if you left them on the points or straight end. Also with the straight needles there is a good chance you'll start knitting in the wrong direction.
Hope this helps
casey


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## Marilynf (Oct 7, 2011)

It's possible you have a talent for knitting you only discovered a year ago. Maybe that's why some things are so intuitive for you. This is a happy thing for you. Lots of us need all the suggestions. With a knitted cast on, I seem to do it so tightly, I'd have given up knitting long ago if that's what I HAD to do. I think it's a tomato tomahto thing. You do what floats your boat and makes sure your experience is the most pleasant for you that you can make it.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Casey - 
I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.

I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.

Like I said, I have got to be missing something. I am not trying to be dense, but I sure feel dense because it seems like people are reinforcing to make things harder than they need to be.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Marilynf said:


> It's possible you have a talent for knitting you only discovered a year ago. Maybe that's why some things are so intuitive for you. This is a happy thing for you. Lots of us need all the suggestions. With a knitted cast on, I seem to do it so tightly, I'd have given up knitting long ago if that's what I HAD to do. I think it's a tomato tomahto thing. You do what floats your boat and makes sure your experience is the most pleasant for you that you can make it.


Marilyn - maybe. I've tatted for years and cross stitch so I was already used to reading patterns and moving my hands.

As far as casting on too tightly with a knitted cast on, I had that problem with acrylic yarn on bamboo needles. I solved it by using a size larger needle for the cast on, then switching back to the right size for row 1.

Like you said though, what works for some might not work for others.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

I will put my 2 cents in...
The way we answer questions depends on what the person is asking.
We do not know the skill/knowledge level of the person asking.
So we (I least I do) just try to answer directly and then wait for a response or more clarification. 
We give alternative methods as well as the tried and true.
With various inputs, the person can think over or try the suggestions presented.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> I will put my 2 cents in...
> The way we answer questions depends on what the person is asking.
> We do not know the skill/knowledge level of the person asking.
> So we (I least I do) just try to answer directly and then wait for a response or more clarification.
> ...


This answer makes sense to me as well, but I think that sometimes beginners might not have the vocabulary to ask the question. Some new knitters might not even know that there are multiple ways to cast on. So they say, "hey, I'm frustrated because I can't accurately estimate hoe much yarn I need to cast on.". If that question gets answered directly, they still don't know that they have a choice of cast on methods. The question is answered, but they still don't know that they have a choice.

If the answer was this type of cast on is best for cuffs, and this type for scarves, and this type for blankets I would just feel so much more comfortable. But it seems like the answer is we do it this way because we were taught to do it this way and it feels safe and comfortable even if it drives people crazy (there are often tales of people being a stitch or 2 short and having to start again). That just sounds like something to avoid unless you have to do it.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

elliferg said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > I will put my 2 cents in...
> ...


As the long tail method goes, there are sooo many people here,
that someone almost always pipes in with the cast on method that works for them.

As for someone being short/over on their stitch count, I think the person is trying to get it right, 
hence the starting over to get it right. Bound and determined to get it right. 
When they can't, sometimes out of frustration, they post their problem.
I have seen alot of the problem was due to the misunderstanding of how to do yarn overs and increases/decreases.

Think of this forum as a continuous conversation with many people and ideas. 
Unfortunately, there are some that express it is their way or no way.
We have to overlook that and stay focused with the problem at hand.
Sometimes what you bring up is indeed brought to the table.
It depends on the person who originally posted, as to how much instruction is presented.
There has been some posts that go on for pages with questions and answers.
When one question is answered, here comes 10 more questions. :wink:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Could the answer to your question be as simple as 'comfort zones'?
Some people never learn to read a written pattern.
Some people never learn to read a charted pattern.
Some people were taught how to knit one specific item, and never learn how to knit anything else in decades of churning out that same pattern over and over again. How do I know this? I asked some prolific slipper-knitters at local church bazaars and their answers were identical. That's all they knew how to knit and they hadn't a clue as to reading a written (let alone charted) pattern. They knew a single method of casting on. They knew a single method of casting off.

My grandmother taught me the very basics of knitting, but she had only a single cast-on in her knowledge base, and was unaware that her method of purling, while producing a sturdy stockinette for active children's sweaters during the Great Depression, would absolutely screw up the lacy patterns I learned from books. She didn't know how to read a knitting pattern. She had no idea of circular knitting and its ability to eliminate the seams so familiar to her from her sewing.

I was astounded when - at age 11 - I learned another method of casting on. Who knew there was more than one way?! It took the advent of the Internet and the early knitting lists (the KnitList being the eldest still functioning, I believe) to teach me that there was a TON more stuff to learn than I'd ever managed to know about knitting in my first few decades of knitting!

You are *unbelieveably lucky* to have begun knitting with all the media available today! 
You learn better from watching than from reading? YouTube! From words than watching? Oodles of blogs, technical articles about the how and why of knitting - all over the Internet and in any language you can imagine! 
You prefer charted patterns? They're widely available!
You want an opinion on a particular book/yarn/brand of knitting needle? You ask and will receive opinions - maybe more than you want!  Nothing's perfect.

Anything you want to know is readily available. Sites such as KP seem to attract both the knowledgable and the rank beginner. Some help offered may not be the best, but among all the responses, the original poster of a question can pick and choose the one that serves the desired purpose ... and learn that there may be more than one 'right' answer!


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I am happy that I get to live in these days where I can go to the internet and find almost any information on anything. It is an amazing time. 

Until your reply, I didn't even know there were different ways to cast off - well cast of and cast off in pattern. I just did a quick Google. Omg - gonna have to explore that.

Your point about comfortable zones is well taken.


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## nanma esther (Aug 22, 2011)

glad you learned somthing from YOUR question,i'm sure others will read this and have a greater knowlage of whats out there also, this is how we learn,we teach each other, i never knew about so many sites on the net, till i found KP


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I had hoped people didn't think I was just trolling or trying to start trouble. I was/am honestly just trying to figure things out. In my knitting group, I am usually the one who goes and figures things out, if someone is stuck. I don't want to lead people astray in my quest for simplicity, but I also want to create more knitters and helping people make quality knitted items as easily as possible feels like the way to go.


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

Actually, by me trying to look up different crochet and knitting methods...I sometimes improve my own methods. I'm halfway through a 9/10 size sock pair and I've done the heel and toe a TAD different thanks to a baby sock pattern I looked up.

Since I short row the heel and toe I found out that instead of stitching two together on both the knit and purl side...I was supposed to be slipping one, knitting one, and PSSO on the knit side. Turned out a better heel and toe. Pictures WILL be forthcoming. <G>


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I am another one who never uses long tail caston. I dont think it looks any better than my knitted cast on, and when I see people doing the long tail cast on it looks cumbersome snd is no where as stretchy as the way I do it.


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

I have always done the cable cast on until last week when I decided to do the long-tail cast on. Seeing the pictures, I first thought it was very difficult but it is really so easy and fast. As for estimating the amount of yarn that is needed, I have been reading people's posts since March and found many ideas posted but the one I have been doing is spot-on. You just wrap the yarn loosely along the needle for as many stitches as is needed, then you slide the yarn off and put a slip-stitch on the end of the wrapped yarn and then just cast on using the slip-stitich as the first stitch. Of course you must leave a tail before wrapping the stitches but this method is foolproof and by following these instructions, you can't go wrong.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I always finish my row regardless of how many stitches are in the needle,then i mark what row i have just finished so i know exactly where i'm at.Also if i'm knitting lace i count every stitch as i knit it that way no mistakes or dropped stitches.I also cast on as the designer advises,that can save a lot of bother at a later stage. :lol: :lol:


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## tintin63 (Apr 18, 2011)

If I have to put down my knitting in the middle of a row (which happens regularly as I need to answer the phone or door as it's my business)especially on a complicated pattern repeat then I keep a pin at hand and I stick it into the pattern on the st I have just done. this means I know where to start when I come back to it. Obviously if I could finish the row or at least the repeat,then that would be better but not always possible. I have never had a problem with knitting backwards. I too do not use the long tail cast on if I can get away without it. I was taught the cable cast on and the thumb method and have since learned others but still use the cable for most of my knitting. I live in UK. I knit from bottom up, so start with the rib so the cable cast on is ideal.

I just think its what works for you.


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## Wannabe knitter (Aug 1, 2012)

I've only been knitting for about 2 years. I was taught the long tail cast on, and at first I found that I was casting on too tight and the edges of my garments were tight and had no give. Then I learned that if I put both the needles together and cast on both of them together, my edge had more give and I had a more even cast on. Lately though, I have been using the cable cast on. I like the edge, but it does take me a lot longer to cast on I am always open to using different cast on methods. I think that the varying methods of casting on open up more possibilities. I've been using the provisional cast on method as well. The first way I learned a provisional cast on was awful, but then I found a tutorial that made the provisional cast on so easy. 

When I am lace knitting, it can sometimes take over 30 minutes to do one row. I use stitch markers after every repeat in a row to keep track. It's easier to see if I missed a yarn over or dropped a stitch when all I have to count are a few stitches, rather than a few hundred stitches. I also use knit companion on my iPad to keep track of where I am, especially in lace knitting. I also use lifelines in my knitting sometimes, and mark what row the lifeline is running through so if I make a big mistake and need to rip back to the lifeline, I know which row I am on.


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## Rosy B (Mar 16, 2012)

How people do things and learn things is an entirely personal thing. Thank goodness we don't all do things the same way - how boring and colourless the world would be.

I've been knitting for over 50 years and until I joined this forum earlier this year, or learned something from the magazines I occasionally buy, I used the same methods I first learned all those years ago. I'm quite happy to learn new techniques or re-discover old ones. 

I only ever did two types of cast on - the long tailed for stretchy things and the cable for everything else. I recently discovered a very stretchy slip knot cast on that takes the guesswork out of it. 

We are very lucky to have all the resources we have today and I admire you for your ability to learn a new craft in so short a time. It's taken me years to get to the standard I am at now and I think I learn something new every time I come on this forum.


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## shirley m (Apr 25, 2011)

maybe you might like to read the forums on ravelry. I read both and enjoy them, but love the conversations and concern here. I do understand what you are getting at, the thirst for learning is very addictive, so I think you would enjoy the many groups, many groups on ravelry. Cheers Shirley.


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## Lulu4 (Jun 27, 2012)

You are very lucky that you are so intuitive and have caught on to knitting so well in such a short time. Not everyone has that ability. I agree with Jessica-Jean and her comments. To me, the field of knitting has grown immensely in the last few years. There is always something new to learn and another method may be better than what our mothers taught a long time ago. I'm still learning even though I'm in my 70s. I was thrilled to learn the magic knot and different methods of casting on & off etc. Enjoy the journey! Ever since I joined KP, I have learned so much and enjoyed the advice from so many talented knitters. Bravo to you all. lulu4


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## MawMaw12 (Apr 30, 2012)

Jessica-Jean, well said. Isn't it great that we have so many folks at so many different stages in our craft? Isn't it great that we have so many willing to help each other no matter where we are? When we get to the point we can no longer learn it is so sad. I am proud to be a part of this wonderful group and glad that Elliferg has joined us.


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## jan m (Jul 5, 2011)

"If the answer was this type of cast on is best for cuffs, and this type for scarves, and this type for blankets I would just feel so much more comfortable."

Actually that IS the answer. Some people know and use different COs for various projects/parts while others use their tried-and-true for everything. Depends on how you approach the issue. I was taught the thumb-loop method and was thrilled to learn the cable CO then emboldened to add the long-tail to my repetoire. Which is 'best' or 'right'? Depends.


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## laceandbits (Jun 23, 2011)

"I'll have to take some of my work to the local yarn shop and ask her to look at my edges and see if they look odd to her."

There's nothing to look odd about the cable cast on. It's the only one I have ever done and suits all general knitting.

Having said that, I was very taken with the twisted German cast on and another one (Bulgarian?) mentioned in the same post recently that was done with double thread and gave a heavy plaited looking edge. But those are for a specific decorative edge, for an ordinary one the cable is as good as any. If you want it looser for any reason, just use a size larger needle to cast onto, for that row only.

It seems to me that you have a very logical mind and have just sorted out simple "out of the box" solutions to problems as they arise. If they work for you, stick with them. Nearly every question here gets lots of solutions offered so why would they be any more valid than yours which you worked out for yourself. In fact, sometimes yours might be the most straightforward.


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## christine4321 (Jun 10, 2012)

Counting the stitches on your needle does not necessarily tell you what row you are on. That is why people write it down. 

That may work for something like the Holbrook Shawl where increases occur every second row but it won't work on something where the stitch count doesn't change.

Writing down the row is also a lot easier and less time consuming than counting 250 stitches every time one returns to their knitting.


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## elaineadams (Oct 17, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Could the answer to your question be as simple as 'comfort zones'?
> Some people never learn to read a written pattern.
> Some people never learn to read a charted pattern.
> Some people were taught how to knit one specific item, and never learn how to knit anything else in decades of churning out that same pattern over and over again. How do I know this? I asked some prolific slipper-knitters at local church bazaars and their answers were identical. That's all they knew how to knit and they hadn't a clue as to reading a written (let alone charted) pattern. They knew a single method of casting on. They knew a single method of casting off.
> ...


I go along with all this....and agree with everything you have said....I have had the same experiences and it is only now with through utube and dvd's that my knitting has become more versatile. I always thought the only yarn on offer was a double knit....now I know better and I love the feel of the different types of yarn.


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## Julie M (Nov 8, 2011)

As a very long-time knitter (over 50 years) I think one of the best ways to learn is to buy some books on technique, if you can, and read them. There's a great new book on techniques of casting on and binding off, for example, that contains some stuff I never knew of before. I read these books not in order to memorize the techniques they demonstrate but to get ideas that will hopefully stick in my mind so that I can go back to them when I need to. Amazon has a lot of these, along with very helpful reviews.


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## Carolmwl (Sep 21, 2011)

For starting the cuff of a sock, as far as I'm concerned, a long tail cast on is the only way to go, 'cause it's a bit stretchier. 

In fact, I use that particular cast on anytime I want some extra stretch, for sweaters, etc.

Plus, of course, (and subjectively,) it looks good.

carol
flutesonline.com
Successful Sock Knitting for Beginners


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## Penrith Grandma (Apr 19, 2011)

Don't worry, until I joined KP, I had never heard of a long tail cast on and I have been knitting for 60 years. The only time I finish knitting a row is when I have been knitting and I know it's time to put it down, not because I have been interrupted , if that happens, I count stitches. 

I am an experienced knitted and have knitted aran sweaters, fair isle, lacy and complicated patterns using the methods my mother taught me. In saying all this, I have appreciated the people on KP I have learnt new things and picked up tips on the way. I quests what I am saying is if your method suits you, then go with it.


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## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

I cast on and knit the way I do because that is the way my beloved mother taught me. She died when I was 25, just 6 months after I was married, she never knew my children. To me it's a way of keeping her memory alive. Unless I find a way of doing something that is significanly better than how she taught me I will follow her directions.


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## Coopwire (May 7, 2011)

How we knit is a very personal thing. We all have reasons for why we do things that are comfortable for us....not because we are not intuitive enough to figure out a "better" way.


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## GypsyC1225 (Apr 13, 2011)

How hard is this?

The yarn is ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND. No matter how many times stop or where in the pattern you are in....the YARN IS ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND.


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## Oma42 (May 10, 2012)

Sounds to me like you have a natural talent, lucky lady! Knitting for you seems like an adventure, and you are guided by imagination not complication. Enjoy!!


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

elliferg said:


> Casey -
> I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.
> 
> I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.
> ...


Some people find it hard to grasp things at the start of learning to knit & are happy to have advice on many things ,some suffer from dyslexia , i was lucky my mother taught me to knit at 5 years so i find anything to do with knitting easy to grasp


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

elliferg said:


> Casey -
> I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.
> 
> I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.
> ...


Long tail, cable, crochet, knitted on, double strand, provisional...all these different cast on methods have very different looks, very different feels, and very different purposes. I too like the cable and knit cast on, and for some things they look great.

For some things, not so much. For instance, the cable cast on LOOKS great...and for anything you want to give a firm edge and little elasticity to, it's perfect. It is not so good for socks or hats, though, because there's not a lot of stretch to it.

If you want a LOT Of elasticity, the old e-wrap is good. The knitted on cast on is more stretchy than the cable cast on, but not as neat looking as a long-tail cast on.

The long tail cast on is a good compromise for most any project, is a favorite for designers and has a moderate amount of stretch.

So you see that there are more things to think of here than how not to get frustrated because you have underestimated the yarn requirements (something that you can eliminate, by the way, if instead of using one skein of yarn to cast on, you use two; one strand of yarn from each skein).

On this forum we have a great many knitters, all of whom do things in a unique way. You want to go for practicality...and that's a good thing. Just remember that for some of us, 'practicality' may not be all that important. For a few of us, it's a swear word.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

elliferg said:


> Casey -
> I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.
> 
> I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.
> ...


You know, what works for some people does not work for others. I don't understand why your making such a big issue out of it. We all do things differently, just like we do everything else. Imagine what a boring world this would be if we all did everything the same. Perhaps you can't understand why people don't take "the easy way out." Maybe to them it is not so easy or they are content with doing what they know best. Is there something so wrong with that?


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## Lynda from Watford (Nov 15, 2011)

I too have been knitting for a long time - about 60 years - but I stopped learning after my mother died cos I had no-one to ask and I find it hard to learn from the written word. Since I joined this site nearly two years ago I have learned so much! I had no idea there were so many different ways to do things and so many different stitches etc so I pick and choose what suits me. I read, I ask questions, I learn and best of all I make friends! And now I make lace shawls and beautiful bears and bunnies. We're all different and we all find different things easy and hard. Long live KP!!!


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

I think the answer to your question is pretty simple. Since you have only been knitting one year, you understand what YOU understand and what works for YOU.

I use the long tail cast on, the cable cast on, knitted cast on, provisional, crochet cast on and several others DEPENDING on what I want the cast on edge to look like (and WORK like ie. stretchy or not). Yes, I have a favorite... a "go to" cast on, but that is really not the point here... as you grow and learn as a knitter, you will find that sometimes you are not happy with your cast on and/or your cast on method does not match your cast off in a certain pattern.

I also use several different methods to increase... YO increase, M1 increase, K1BF increase and several others. They all LOOK VERY different. Which one I use depends on what I want the item to look like and what the pattern states. I recently substituted a yo increase for a M1 increase in a shawl. I couldn't do that if I only used one increase because that "is simple and works for me" as you say.

I think you will find that as your knitting progresses, your "eye" for your work improves and you will SEEK out other ways to do many things in knitting.

Or, perhaps you will be one of those knitters that Jessica Jean described.... only knitting certain items and using the same cast on, cast off for the rest of your knitting life and be perfectly happy with your work.

Like I said, some knit what is comfortable for them, you knit what is easiest and I knit what I think will look the best. In knitting it is ALL a matter of personal preference. I think as you expand your knitting talents, you will feel the NEED to expand your methods of casting on, increasing, casting off, and a whole host of other skills so that you have options.

BTW... did you know that there are literally dozens of ways to KNIT? I am most often a thrower, but I sometimes knit continental style. How's that for a game-changer? I actually knit differently depending on my mood. WHY? For no other reason than I CAN! lol

I hope this answers your question.


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd never even heard of the long-tail cast on until I found this forum and it certainly isn't something i would try.I've been knitting for 60 years+.I agree with you that it seems to be an unnecessary complication,but the lots of knitters seem to like it:
what floats your boat,I guess.
As to counting stitches,that is how I keep track too -though it doesn't always work!


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## GypsyC1225 (Apr 13, 2011)

Amen Linda


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## Lynda from Watford (Nov 15, 2011)

Brilliant answer, Amy, and may I live long enough to learn how to make those kind of choices!!!!! I follow a pattern like it's the Ten Commandments lol!!!!


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## cgcharles (Feb 23, 2011)

Very well put Jessica Jean. Excellent answer.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Could the answer to your question be as simple as 'comfort zones'?
> Some people never learn to read a written pattern.
> Some people never learn to read a charted pattern.
> Some people were taught how to knit one specific item, and never learn how to knit anything else in decades of churning out that same pattern over and over again. How do I know this? I asked some prolific slipper-knitters at local church bazaars and their answers were identical. That's all they knew how to knit and they hadn't a clue as to reading a written (let alone charted) pattern. They knew a single method of casting on. They knew a single method of casting off.
> ...


What a great answer! Your insight to so many things has helped many of us "beginners" who are not quite as "gifted" as others. Please keep giving us the good adivce and we will ALL choose which one is right for us.


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

GypsyC1225 said:


> How hard is this?
> 
> The yarn is ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND. No matter how many times stop or where in the pattern you are in....the YARN IS ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND.


Unless, of course, you are a continental (or combination) knitter. 
Or left handed.

(grin) Sorry, but this topic is hitting my funny bone. One of the things I love about knitting (and this group) is that everybody does this DIFFERENTLY! What's practical for one is a pain in the keester for another; the 'right' way to do things for one knitter is an abomination for the next, and I'm about as far outside the mainstream, knitting wise, as anybody, being a 'scooper' and a 'twisted knitter' and a 'keep those straight and double pointed needles AWAY from me, please" knitter. If I can't do it with a circular (or two), I ain't doin' it.


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## kimberknit (Jun 8, 2012)

I would just like to add... I'm in the glorious third year of my knitting adventure, and the excitement never ends. I was lucky enough to have been bored with two preschool children at home when I stumbled onto Stitches East coming to town. I figured it would be fun and something to do with the kids where they could looks around and maybe I'd learn a thing or two. I HAD NO IDEA! the yarn, the tools, and the people, all amazing. I tried 10 years ago to learn to knit from a book- and promptly lost clumps of hair it was so frustrating. one afternoon in the yarn fumes and I was hooked. The one thing to remember is that we all love the craft. Be it beautiful hand dyed yarns or acrylic baby blankets for charity or whatever your hearts desire we have the ability to do what we want. there is no RIGHT way to make art. if it makes your heart happy and your soul sings t doesn't matter how you get there. if you can follow a pattern and end up with the result you were looking for its a win. I have had the pleasure of showing my young ones how to knit, as well as my mother who could only crochet. I've learned so much from the Internet as well as women who were knitting before I was born, and have helped even seasoned knitters learn a new trick. I used to get frustrated in the beginning thinking how you do, why would someone want to do it the "hard way"? but then realized their way was just as easy to them. As long as I'm enjoying what I'm doing its all good to me. I just am thankful for all these resources we now have, because my son has finally gotten his baby blanket- even if it was 8 years late


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## joyce1946 (Apr 27, 2011)

I couldn't live without my Clover row counter! (Purchased at joanns) As I finish each row, I simply click on the counter. No more guesswork about where I left off!


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## Lovinknittin (Apr 2, 2011)

MawMaw12 said:


> Jessica-Jean, well said. Isn't it great that we have so many folks at so many different stages in our craft? Isn't it great that we have so many willing to help each other no matter where we are? When we get to the point we can no longer learn it is so sad. I am proud to be a part of this wonderful group and glad that Elliferg has joined us.


We all learn whom to look for to get a quick answer to our questions. This Forum is created and managed very well. The original post here indicates why people who knit are skilled and smart, some much more than others. 
  It is not easy to knit and do all of the figuring and "engineering" that goes with it. Wait awhile and you will see what I mean. Enjoy.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

I think what it boils down to is that you are NOT missing anything but some people need to be reasured that what they are about to do is correct so they ask the question that sounds like there's only one logical way to do it.. 
I understand the longtail cast on is only one of the things you could think of off the top of your head... I am sure that you read most all the posts like we all do and there are several ways to cast on discussed daily.. 
also what seems practical to some and clear and to the point to some does not always seem that way to every one... 
We would not of learned all that we have if those questions were not asked to begin with... and since we get dozens of new members daily there are alway newbies that need these issues addressed and help with.. 
I personally was wondering why is it that if I do a swatch and knit with the same yarn and needles that my socks never fit... LOL
I will read every post weather its a question I know the answer to or not just to educate myself a bit more each time... I also will do this with the subject of guage.. until my backwards brain can grasp it well enough to not have to dig so deep to understand what I need to do when my guage is off. 
This is a learning and sharing forum we have all levels of expertise and are so lucky to have such a diverse group... what seems logical and simple to some is not to others and that is how we all grow and learn..


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

GypsyC1225 said:


> How hard is this?
> 
> The yarn is ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND. No matter how many times stop or where in the pattern you are in....the YARN IS ALWAYS IN YOUR RIGHT HAND.


I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense. What does it matter which hand the yarn is in? I know there are alot of knitters like me who knit Continental and that means we have the yarn in our left hand.


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## Lovinknittin (Apr 2, 2011)

Ronie said:


> I think what it boils down to is that you are NOT missing anything but some people need to be reasured that what they are about to do is correct so they ask the question that sounds like there's only one logical way to do it..
> I understand the longtail cast on is only one of the things you could think of off the top of your head... I am sure that you read most all the posts like we all do and there are several ways to cast on discussed daily..
> also what seems practical to some and clear and to the point to some does not always seem that way to every one...
> We would not of learned all that we have if those questions were not asked to begin with... and since we get dozens of new members daily there are alway newbies that need these issues addressed and help with..
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

Chezl said:


> GypsyC1225 said:
> 
> 
> > How hard is this?
> ...


Now I've already answered this post myself, but I think her point was this: whatever hand you use to hold your yarn, THAT is the hand your yarn is always in.

Left, right....

(oh, wait....unless you are doing fair isle, in which case the yarn can be in both hands...oh, dear.)


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

When you put your work down the working yarn is on the right side.. yes you use it off of your left hand but it comes from the right... that is what was meant... it is also true that throwing the yarn always stays on the right... in continental it only goes to the left when you are knitting.. then rest to the right.. look at what you are knitting and you will see what I'm saying when you lay your work down...


Chezl said:


> GypsyC1225 said:
> 
> 
> > How hard is this?
> ...


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## cd4player (Jul 29, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I am happy that I get to live in these days where I can go to the internet and find almost any information on anything. It is an amazing time.
> 
> Until your reply, I didn't even know there were different ways to cast off - well cast of and cast off in pattern. I just did a quick Google. Omg - gonna have to explore that.
> 
> Your point about comfortable zones is well taken.


Good morning!

I liked Jessica-Jean's comfort zone statement - no matter how many cast-on and cast-off methods we learn, or how many different ways there are to keep tension, or purl, or count rows, or ... whatever ... everyone has their favorite go-to method for each.

I personally love long-tail cast-on for its flexibility and neatness, and after learning how to do it with both ends of the yarn I no longer have to estimate and NEVER have to rip out and start my cast-on over.

So good on you for finding your favorite methods!!


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## Avalon37 (Aug 2, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Could the answer to your question be as simple as 'comfort zones'?
> Some people never learn to read a written pattern.
> Some people never learn to read a charted pattern.
> Some people were taught how to knit one specific item, and never learn how to knit anything else in decades of churning out that same pattern over and over again. How do I know this? I asked some prolific slipper-knitters at local church bazaars and their answers were identical. That's all they knew how to knit and they hadn't a clue as to reading a written (let alone charted) pattern. They knew a single method of casting on. They knew a single method of casting off.
> ...


Well, long-time-no-see! I missed your down to earth advice and responses to some of these problems people seem to have. welcome back.


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## ann-other-knitter (Mar 17, 2012)

elliferg said:


> I am happy that I get to live in these days where I can go to the internet and find almost any information on anything. It is an amazing time.
> 
> Until your reply, I didn't even know there were different ways to cast off - well cast of and cast off in pattern. I just did a quick Google. Omg - gonna have to explore that.
> 
> Your point about comfortable zones is well taken.


My favourite cast off is to k2tog. slip that stitch back to left needle, k2tog, slip to left needle. Repeat all along row. this is a looser edge. it saves having to find a larger needle with which to cast off. Ann


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## Elveta (Feb 17, 2012)

I just draw a line on my pattern. I always copy my stitch portion of the pattern on the printer then I can mark all over it if I choose.


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## GypsyC1225 (Apr 13, 2011)

SORRY


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

What I am learning through these very experienced knitters is that there are many different ways to do many different things. I have recently learned a new cast on because I am using it on very fine work for shawls. The estimate is 1/2in per stitch and it seems to be right on the money for me. Sometimes counting is as much a hassle as any other technique so I do try and complete a row before I wander to far. But a stitch counter/row counter or the tried and true little notebook and pen is always a great way to keep track. As everyone says, anyway that works for you is always first. I think once you try your hand at more difficult pieces you will find different ways and more efficient ways to keep track. My view is that knitting is always a learning experience.... hopefully I keep getting better....


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## MollyMatters (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm not sure you're missing anything, but there are many different cast on's and depending on what look you are interested in getting or if you need a more flexible cast on you choose the appropriate one. You will find, over time, and after you've started designing your own patterns that you appreciate having a variety of options to choose from. You will probably have your "favorite" and "go-to" cast on and that may not change. I teach the long-tail cast on to all my beginners because it is a work horse of a cast on and works for most patterns. I am in the middle of my "Master's of Knitting" and the long-tail cast on is the one they recommend. Next month I am teaching a Cast-On/Bind-Off Class to teach knitters which cast-on works best in different knitting situations. Personally, my favorite changes and right now it's the Norweigan, which is a variation of the long-tail. So advice for long tail cast on's are a good thing, it should be in your knitters toolbox at all times :-D


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## Redhatchris (Apr 21, 2012)

elliferg said:


> I am happy that I get to live in these days where I can go to the internet and find almost any information on anything. It is an amazing time.
> 
> Until your reply, I didn't even know there were different ways to cast off - well cast of and cast off in pattern. I just did a quick Google. Omg - gonna have to explore that.
> 
> Your point about comfortable zones is well taken.


Check out the book:
"Cast On, Bind Off: 211 Ways to Begin and End Your Knitting" [Hardcover-spiral] Cap Sease (Author) 
I just bought it on Amazon.com
Very enlightening


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## christine4321 (Jun 10, 2012)

Ronie said:


> When you put your work down the working yarn is on the right side.. yes you use it off of your left hand but it comes from the right... that is what was meant... it is also true that throwing the yarn always stays on the right... in continental it only goes to the left when you are knitting.. then rest to the right.. look at what you are knitting and you will see what I'm saying when you lay your work down...
> 
> 
> Chezl said:
> ...


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## Marny CA (Jun 26, 2011)

All ways are valid. Do what works for you (the collective 'you')

I like using slash marks on a piece of paper - sometimes on the pattern if it's a pattern I printed out - that way, whenever I do that pattern the rows are obvious and I can click each off in a different way.

I count stitches, too. If leaving a row I will sometimes use a different marker or piece of yarn - and on the pattern circle where I left off.

There are so many different things that I do -- it's what I'm feeling at the time.

If a row has 50 stitches and I had to stop along the way, I can always count the stitches on my needle - usually from the end that has the fewest stitches on the needles.

Find your own methods.


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## yolie47 (Nov 6, 2011)

Bravo, Jessica Jean. I too just returned to knitting. I didn't quite get 20 years ago, but now...I love it. As you so wonderfully put it, 'comfort zone', and your explanation...perfect. Thank you.


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## justfara (Sep 9, 2011)

This has been a very interesting topic. I have been knitting since 1956 and, knowing lots of cast on methods, the long tail is about 90% faster than the next closest for me. Enough said.


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## MaryMargaret (Mar 7, 2012)

Elliferg...

"The Principles of Knitting", a big tome that came out in its second edition this year, might be something you would enjoy. I, too, am uncomfortable being told the "what" without the "why". I've learned a lot from different sources but was attracted to "Principles" because it was all about "how" and "why" without the specific projects and specified yarns included in many knitting books.

Some sainted soul has taken it all down to bedrock and put it in a single volume. It's a big heavy book so I bought it for my Kindle Fire, since that makes it also searchable. She sticks to principles and categories very diligently, so, to my surprise, it's hard to find her entry for "long-tail cast-on" because it's buried in a section with other methods considered to be of a common type.

But I have loved having it for a reference and even just to read through. I've learned a lot.

Yesterday in the bookstore I read through Vogue's "Knitopedia" and got explanations of some arcane aspects of knitting and the knitting industry that I was glad to discover.

That said, like any craft, there's more to learn about knitting than most of us will master in a lifetime.


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## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.
> 
> Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things.
> 
> ...


We're all different and what seems more efficient for one may be more complicated for another. Some have to follow patterns, some make up their own, and still, some are able to switch from pattern to own ways when needed. Others have health problems that keep us from knitting/crocheting a certain way and we have to "make do". Arthritis and surgery can enter into the picture, too. We all have our own ways of doing things - which makes the world such a wonderful exciting place. So, when someone asks a question, we all chime in with our methods and let that person choose what is best for them.

Don't hesitate to let us know your ways, too. Some of us will change and some will stay the same. But, all of us will appreciate your input all the time. Thanks for being so helpful with your tips.


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## Lovinknittin (Apr 2, 2011)

Use the "Search" function at the top of the page also. It is fairly quick to find an answer.


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## beadness (Apr 14, 2011)

Well-said, Jessica Jean!



Jessica-Jean said:


> Could the answer to your question be as simple as 'comfort zones'?
> Some people never learn to read a written pattern.
> Some people never learn to read a charted pattern.
> Some people were taught how to knit one specific item, and never learn how to knit anything else in decades of churning out that same pattern over and over again. How do I know this? I asked some prolific slipper-knitters at local church bazaars and their answers were identical. That's all they knew how to knit and they hadn't a clue as to reading a written (let alone charted) pattern. They knew a single method of casting on. They knew a single method of casting off.
> ...


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## laceweight (Jun 20, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> I think the answer to your question is pretty simple. Since you have only been knitting one year, you understand what YOU understand and what works for YOU.
> 
> I use the long tail cast on, the cable cast on, knitted cast on, provisional, crochet cast on and several others DEPENDING on what I want the cast on edge to look like (and WORK like ie. stretchy or not). Yes, I have a favorite... a "go to" cast on, but that is really not the point here... as you grow and learn as a knitter, you will find that sometimes you are not happy with your cast on and/or your cast on method does not match your cast off in a certain pattern.
> 
> ...


Well said, AmyKnits!


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## MaryA (Jan 26, 2011)

I don't think you are missing anything. What you are saying is logical to me. It sounds like you have a real gift for knitting. Thay may be why you feel you are missing something. When it comes so naturally to you it's hard to comprehend why others have a time figuring things out - you just intuitively know! Good for you! Keep knitting!


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## JoannaP (Jul 24, 2011)

elliferg said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > I will put my 2 cents in...
> ...


I think the medium here is the problem. If I was working with someone face-to-face I would be able to say "Would you like for me to show you a cast-on to use when estimating is too cumbersome? " But since this medium is not great for conversation, the best we can do is answer the question asked, even though it might have gotten asked because the person did not know how to ask what they really wanted to know. It is to your credit that you are able to know how to ask what you really wanted to know, but not everyone is blessed with your communication skills.... including maybe me!


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## lizmaxwell (Jul 23, 2011)

One estimating thing i do find useful is the amount of yarn needed to complete a row. If you coming to the end of a ball and dont want a join mid row, neither do wish to waste yarn 3 to 4 times the length of the row will give you enough yarn to complete it so the join can be in a seam - useful when using either fine yarn or bulky yarn.
However good on you for questioning everything that you do. It is so easy to accept " oh we have always done that " sometimes it is the best way but other times it is just habit - so you go and question things its always good to think outside the boc


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## lizmaxwell (Jul 23, 2011)

Sorry that should have read " box "


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

Well said Jessica Jean......always look forward to your responses and have learned SO much from them and from others here on KP....I recently realized as I was casting on that I associated what I was doing with what my grandmother taught me...that realization was a very warm and special moment....also, as I read about other methods of doing things I make a note of them.....look them up and try them out on a swatch.....it's SO fun to grow and learn....that said, my "go" bag by the door always has a comfort, small project in it....
julie


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

elliferg said:


> Casey -
> I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.
> 
> I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.
> ...


I have always use the knitted cast on(it was the way I was taught) and never had a problem


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## MKjane (May 20, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.
> 
> Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things.
> 
> ...


You're not missing anything. No matter what question is posted, we get all different opinions as answers. Feel free to join the chorus and give your answer too!


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## ebbtide2011 (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm in agreement with you. I have been knitting for more than 50 years. I recently learned of the long tail cast on, tried it, hated it, decided to stick with my old standbys. Do what works for you, ask questions when you get stumped but only do what works for you. Enjoy your knitting, that is why we do it.


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## rtzeej (Aug 26, 2012)

I am a new knitter of about 5 months. I welcome the different views posted and know that if I need an answer I can always find it here. Everyone has a different viewpoint and methods they like. What might be an easier solution for you isn't necessarily so for someone else. That's what makes the world such an interesting place!


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

I just ordered Cast on Cast off 211 ...... my curiosity got the best of me. Just couldn't stand it any longer.


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## lannieb (Apr 28, 2011)

Very good question (I have wondered this myself), and many good answers.

Don't forget we all have different aptitudes and abilities. Sometimes what is simple for one person is not for another.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Great responses! I've only used the long tail co, but will take a look at others and practice working them.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

AmyKnits said:


> I think the answer to your question is pretty simple. Since you have only been knitting one year, you understand what YOU understand and what works for YOU.
> 
> I use the long tail cast on, the cable cast on, knitted cast on, provisional, crochet cast on and several others DEPENDING on what I want the cast on edge to look like (and WORK like ie. stretchy or not). Yes, I have a favorite... a "go to" cast on, but that is really not the point here... as you grow and learn as a knitter, you will find that sometimes you are not happy with your cast on and/or your cast on method does not match your cast off in a certain pattern.
> 
> ...


I actually learned long tail first, but switched to knitted cast on after ripping out my cast in once - basically burned once and holding a grudge. I did a pattern that said "use long tail cast on" so I did, but it was so stressful wondering if I would have the right amount of yarn. The couple of people I have taught to knit, I taught the knitted cast on partially because it is so close to the knit stitch.

I generally knit left handed, but for long stretches of purls (I just don't like to purl - eww), I sometimes turn over my work and knit right handed. It's usually not worth the effort, but a long enough stretch and I'll do it. I throw when I knit left handed, I pick when I knit right handed. I know probably extra weird, but I learned what knits and purls are supposed to look like, and the resultant knitting looks the same. I also hold one needle under my arm if I am knitting on long straight needles.

I have my favourite increase for if the pattern just says "increase", but most of the patterns I have done have told me which increase to do.

As has been noted, I am logical. I write computer programs for a living. While there is a lot of art to that and many ways to do things, there are also better ways and worse ways. It seems like there could be better and worse ways to knit. I have played with needle choices even and have different materials I like for different yarn (or times withing the knitting). I am also rules based. I subconsciously make a checklist for everything in my life. If this happens, this is the optimal choice, otherwise try this.

Also, even though I've only been knitting for a year, mist of that time I knitted about 30 hours a week. Since I was widowed a few months ago, I now knit about 50-60 hours a week. I haven't spent a year making one thing. That's why I started my initial post talking about the breadth of my experience. Just to kinda give an idea that I have seen a couple of techniques. Obviously not all, or even most but more than just the skills needed to make one thing.


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## denisejh (May 20, 2011)

elliferg-You're not missing anything. Knitting is a very personal craft. You learn how to do something, frequently "tweek" the how-to to do it in a way that works best for you. Also, knitters are people, not sheep. People think differently and look at things differently. What works for one, might not work for another. The person who taught you to knit taught you her way, not necessarily the "right" way. Not everyone holds my preferrences to be their's as well. When you read all these posts, think of them as a library offering many different ways to do something. If you see something that you like, try it. If you see something you don't like or agree with, ignore it. No hard fast rules here, just many tools to, hopefully, help someone get the job done!! Best, Denise


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## gmcmullen (Dec 29, 2011)

elliferg said:


> So my question is, what am I missing? I don't have that much experience, so I am guessing that I am overlooking something in my quest for doing things as practically as possible.


If we all wanted to do things as practically as possible, we wouldn't spend our time knitting. Geesh, what a waste of time and money. Instead, we could purchase only ready-made items made by machine and donate cash only to charities.

I'm being sarcastic here, but what I'm trying to point out is that there are different ways of achieving the same end result. Knitting is to many an artistic expression--not really practical. We often accomplish things the way we were taught or evolved. I'm glad your methods work for you, and you may even be able to offer assistance to others. But, your way is not the only way nor necessarily the best way. Diversity--even in knitting--is so much more fulfilling.


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

Different strokes for different folks. Aren't we lucky to have so many options and so many talented folks who offer up new and useful information. There are no wrong questions and no bad answers. We all learn and do things differently and sometimes the info we get here works for us and sometimes it doesn't. No harm, no foul. (I seem to be rather cliche-ridden today!) I personally don't enjoy doing a knitted cast on--seems to take too long, though sometimes I use it. I never estimate for a long tail--I just jump in and sometimes I have to do it over. Don't enjoy that much either, but it's all part of the process.


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## yankeecatlady (Jun 3, 2011)

To each, his own. For whatever reason.

Some of it is the way a person was taught. Some just a favorite way to do it for whatever reason.

I don't crochet the way my Mom did, even though she taught me.


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## MrsBearstalker (Aug 11, 2011)

When trying to help someone, we tend to use what has worked for us. Everyone does things differently . . . ever watch a friend in the kitchen? Your friend probably uses his/her kitchen tools differently than you do. When you are giving advice, you should give what works best for you. The person receiving advice can try it and see if it works for her/him.


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## maryellen 60 (Nov 7, 2011)

Different cast on methods give you different looks and stretch. You need to use the method that is going to give you the desired results. The same goes for the way you cast off.


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## k2p3-knit on (May 1, 2012)

Elizabeth Zimmerman, a star in the knitting world, author of many books, estimated the tail length for a long tail cast-on as 3 times the width of the piece you are making. Personally I favor casting on 10 and checking how much yarn was needed. For an afghan or long width using yarn from two balls eliminates guestimating. At the end of the cast-on cut one yarn leaving a tail to weave in. When I cast on I put a yarn marker each 20 stitches. Its easier to check the count in blocks of 20s. Call me insecure if you wish, but I also use stitch markers each pattern repeat or change. Its easier to find and check for boo-boos.

To dazzle or confound you here is a site with a lot of cast-on methods. https://sites.google.com/site/oftroysgoldenapples/home/tutorials/cast-ons Some are recommended for special purposes. Its a good place to bookmark or save in a file. Knittingdaily.com and Knitting Pattern Central also have good tutorials. And You Tube.

With my necessary knitting supplies are a crochet hook, yarn markers in a small medicine container, paper and pencil and a few safety pins. When putting knitting aside (end or mid-row) I make a note where the knitting ended and safety pin it to my knitting. (Youll never guess why. Yeah, youre right.) If you keep a pad of sticky notes with your knitting you can also place one on the pattern (even an arrow pointing to where the next stitch is if that will help you). I also make a copy of my pattern and keep it in a safe place. (Youre right again.) In fact, I prefer working from the copy so I can mark it up and still have a clean pattern in case I want to use it again. If you meant finding the direction you are going, a small tug on the yarn will move the last stitch you knitted and the one before it too.

Id like to encourage you to keep on knitting. It will bring you hours of pleasure plus nice items youve made exactly how you like them.


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## Pauline (Jan 23, 2011)

Ask a question and you will get many answers, aren't we lucky!
There are so many people willing to help to make our craft that much easier, and share the knowledge that they have. 
I am always thrilled when I learn something new, I have been a knitter for 69 years and I am still learning. 

I love KP!


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## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

It took a child to notice that the Emperor didn't have any clothes. So sometimes it takes someone with "new" eyes to see the simplicity of the problem. You seem to have done that.


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## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

I don't think that you are missing anything at all. I don't use 'long tail' cast on either. And aside from that, if it works for you, it works. The 2 questions that stuck with you are usually asked by beginners that just need a little coaching and/or a confidence boost. Remember that there are no stupid questions, and that we were all beginners once.
It sure sounds to me as if you have come a long way in a year, and have confidence in yourself. 
Keep up the good work.
Patty


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## Dreamweaver (Feb 1, 2011)

Jessica-Jean has given an excellent explanation, as always. Just because something is simple and logical to one, does not make it simple and logical for all. Trying to answer the question *asked*, also means not imposing your own preferences or thoughts on a purely techincal inquiry. Ask for an opinion here.... now that is an entirely different kettle of fish.... Lots of ways to do lots of things and lots of people with firm opinions....


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## PatriciaDF (Jan 29, 2011)

I believe Jessica Jean said it very well. We, as individuals, learn differently and at our own pace. I have been knitting and crocheting for well over 50 years and every once in awhile learn a new stitch or method I hadn't heard of or tried previously. The finished appearance of an item often dictates which method/stitch to be used...hence the different types of cast-ons and cast-offs also. To each his own!


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks to everyone. 

I plan to check out the knitting theory books/sites so that I can explore more of the why of knitting.

This was an opinion question, and as such, I expected many opinions. I am grateful for them all.


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## josette (Jul 6, 2012)

I think it is just a matter of preference. Just like some people like to crochet, some like to knit and some like both. It is neither right or wrong.


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## knitterbee (Jul 21, 2011)

When you swatch for your socks, do you knit it in the round like the sock? Knitting back & forth doesn't give the same gauge as knitting in the round. The Yarn Harlot considers the first sock her swatch. She just starts with what is recommended for the swatch, and if it doesn't work goes up or down from there. Since socks aren't a whole lot bigger than a swatch. 


Ronie said:


> I think what it boils down to is that you are NOT missing anything but some people need to be reasured that what they are about to do is correct so they ask the question that sounds like there's only one logical way to do it..
> I understand the longtail cast on is only one of the things you could think of off the top of your head... I am sure that you read most all the posts like we all do and there are several ways to cast on discussed daily..
> also what seems practical to some and clear and to the point to some does not always seem that way to every one...
> We would not of learned all that we have if those questions were not asked to begin with... and since we get dozens of new members daily there are alway newbies that need these issues addressed and help with..
> ...


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## GroodleMom (Feb 27, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.
> 
> Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things.
> 
> ...


I dont think you are missing anything and I agree with you. I started off with long tail as I was taught but I have changed for the most part to cable cast on unless there is another cast on that is better for a cetain application (such as a really stretchy cast on).
I think a lot of knitters stick to the ways they were taught and formulate their answers to questions based on how they have solved issues. I have learned a lot from these answers!
As to where to start when you pick knitting back up:
My knitting time is as follows: 
Knit 20 sts- let dogs out
Knit 20 sts (maybe) - let older dog in
Knit until I need to call other dog in or phone rings or laundry needs to be put in dryer, etc.

I also knit on circs and if row is just a repeated single stitch I can just continue on till the end.
I always use a marker between repeats of patterns 
(stitches or row repeats) or to mark a particular space for increases/decreases, etc. That makes it easy to see where I am in the pattern. 
I must admit that if I am having a particularly "prematurely blonde" day I may pick up and go back the opposite direction but on those days my best solution is to put my knitting away!
It's all about what feels comfortable and is intuitive to you.
I think it is fascinating to read all the different methods people have developed to solve problems.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

gmcmullen said:


> elliferg said:
> 
> 
> > So my question is, what am I missing? I don't have that much experience, so I am guessing that I am overlooking something in my quest for doing things as practically as possible.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

GroodleMom said:


> elliferg said:
> 
> 
> > I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.
> ...


Again, I agree. I am a beginner, have learned many, many things here, some worked, some didn't, but I've learned. Some days though, no matter what I do, I am tinking, on those days I just put it away because I know I will make things worse. Sometimes, I pick it back up and sometimes not. Other days I just don't want to do it at all and only knit for an hour (thankfully, those day are few and far between). I still work full time, albeit, out of my home, but I still have to do 8 hours. If I don't do a little before work I am too tired at night to do any. I work 1-9 so that is why I don't do it at night. I'll get done when I get done. No rush, no pressure.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I actually see knitting (and other handmade things) as practical... I get rewarded for my entertainment. The cost of supplies divided by the time it takes to make something by hand tends to be fairly low, even with expensive supplies. And then there is the bonus of having something tangible when you are done. It's a win all around as far as I see.


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## Beth72 (Sep 23, 2012)

I agree with marilynf. You must be very adept and a fast learner. I taught my self 3 yrs ago I still cannot do the kitchner stitch, and I will learn it eventually. Right now I am doing simpler things to give me a more comfortable confident feeling about my skills. I have knitted hats, scraves, animals and afghans. Sometimes even using my own pattern. Socks have me stumped but I know I will get it sooner later. As she said whatever floats your boat. Some people really need to ask these questions. That's what this forum is for. Not everyone catches on as easily as you seem to have done.


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## oleganny (Oct 14, 2011)

There are reasons for the different cast-ons - sometimes how much it will stretch, other times the designer used it as a design element. Even after knitting for many, many years I invested in a good knitting book that showed examples of different cast-ons, bind offs, increases, decreases, etc & the reason for using them. I gave the book to my DGD several years ago, because so many of my pattern books had the exact same information. As for keeping track of my stitches, I usually knit patterned items, some with repeats in different rows, so I am careful there - if just knitting plain it is usually just "by gosh & by golly" If I happen to have a problem, I can always count rows - stitches I seldom have a problem with. I've knitted now for over 60 years, & still find new techniques that I've never used.

hugs
Shirley in Indiana


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

Beth72 said:


> I agree with marilynf. You must be very adept and a fast learner. I taught my self 3 yrs ago I still cannot do the kitchner stitch, and I will learn it eventually. Right now I am doing simpler things to give me a more comfortable confident feeling about my skills. I have knitted hats, scraves, animals and afghans. Sometimes even using my own pattern. Socks have me stumped but I know I will get it sooner later. As she said whatever floats your boat. Some people really need to ask these questions. That's what this forum is for. Not everyone catches on as easily as you seem to have done.


Just as an aside...you know a really easy way to figure out the Kichener stitch?

First, in order to set this joining up, you have probably done a provisional cast on, right? If you did one of the 'knit a few rows of waste yarn" one, this is easy...but it also works for the other types of cast on rows.

When you get to the last row, keep going...knit a couple more rows of contrasting yarn. When you put the rows together that you want to join, you will see VERY clearly where the yarn goes to sew up the Kitchener stitch. It's a straight 'follow the leader" sort of thing.  Then when you are done, unravel the contrasting yarn and there you are. The nice thing about this is that you don't have to battle with knitting needles or have to worry about dropping stitches.


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## abigailbaby (Dec 4, 2011)

To let you know where I am coming from - I have just recently started knitting again. I knit a baby blanket with 3" border of lace a little over 50 yr. ago. That is all I have knit. Now I am doing lace scarfs. When I have to put my work down I find that I need to know 2 things when I pick it up again: which row I am on and where I am in that row. Knowing which row I am on is easy. I use a handy dandy row counter that my neice gave me. This is important since some lace patterns are 8 rows long.Knowing where I am on the row is easy if I knit to the end of the row. If life has interfered I can figure out where I am by using row count and number of stitches on my right hand needle.


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

In regard to your ? of what you are missing, it could be that you are just missing an appreciation for doing things different ways than what you know. and that is not written to be offensive but I know it may be taken that way so OUCH! I can cast on using the long tail method so much faster than the knit on method that I dreaded using 25 years ago and am so glad a much more experienced knitter taught me the long tail method and relieved that I listened to her.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

BC said:


> In regard to your ? of what you are missing, it could be that you are just missing an appreciation for doing things different ways than what you know. and that is not written to be offensive but I know it may be taken that way so OUCH! I can cast on using the long tail method so much faster than the knit on method that I dreaded using 25 years ago and am so glad a much more experienced knitter taught me the long tail method and relieved that I listened to her.


No offense taken, but I have an appreciation for differences. I do have a fairly strong bias against doing something "just because". If an action or idea can't stand up to the why question, I am unlikely to follow it. While "I do it a certain way because I was taught that way" is a perfectly valid answer, it doesn't answer the question if it is the most appropriate solution. And so often, solutions are VERY dependent on the specific situation.
So... Some cast ons have a distinctive look and can be decorative. Some are looser. Some are tighter. Some are stretchier. Only knowing one way to cast on seems limiting, but it is my impression from reading multiple threads that there is a bias towards one kind and the reason is is the one that they were taught...

So many if the answers actually lack diversity.

It's like asking what is your favourite colour... I can't answer that question unless the question is finished. - my favourite colour car is green, my favourite colour shirt is black, my favourite colour lipstick is red. Forced to answer just general favourite colour, I would go with green, but I would be disappointed if someone made me a gift of green lipstick.


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> I will put my 2 cents in...
> The way we answer questions depends on what the person is asking.
> We do not know the skill/knowledge level of the person asking.
> So we (I least I do) just try to answer directly and then wait for a response or more clarification.
> ...


I like your answer, who is to say there is only one method for anything wether its knitting or cooking potatoes. The best thing about KP is that lots of suggetions are given, it gives us something to think about, and people to know. The friendliness of this site needs to be kept. I read much of what I will likely never do. Spice of life. Ginny


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## msdotsy1 (Oct 17, 2012)

countryknitwit said:


> I always use the long-tail cast on because it is the most versitle cast-on and the one most patterns recommend. I do not like the look of the other cast-ons, although will use them if the designer recommends it.
> The advice regarding always finishing a row is good--it is a good habit to get into. I also count stitches at the end of each row to make sure I didn't drop one; I have been known to drop a stitch and inadvertently correct it in another row, and been left with a dangling stitch.
> The advice you get on here is tried and true by experienced knitters. If you think your ways work, then use them.


 :thumbup:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

ginnyinnr said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > I will put my 2 cents in...
> ...


I try not to offend the person, because we don't know their skill level.
If further clarification is needed...it is given.
Sure, we can write a book of all the different scenarios; but I am not here to write a book as my response post. :wink: 
What comes to my mind today as a response, may not be my response tomorrow to the same question from another person.
Some people pose their question in detail...others pose it as simply as possible.
I would want my question answered, and if I need to follow-up with another question or need more clarification, I am free to do so.
If I am asking how to do the long tail cast on (by the way...I have not tried it yet), I would like my question answered without all the bells and whistles of other ways to cast on.
Don't confuse an already confused mind. :wink: 
If I determine that the long tail cast on is not for me, then I can come back with another post and say...hey, fill me in on other ways because I just can not get the long tail.
And I look forward to reading most posts because it generally becomes of interest to me or makes me go...hmmm.


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## PauletteB. (Feb 7, 2012)

I also use t5he long tail cast on unless the designer recommends something different. this is the way I was taught and I feel most comfortable with.


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## Slmwhr (Nov 12, 2011)

I haven't read all the responses to your question. There are 8 pages. But I have a thought about cast-ons. As you mentioned I have learned that some methods are better for a particular type of item than others. The edge will look different with different types of cast-OnS and that's an artistic/aesthetic choice the knitter has. I just learned after 50 years of knitting a new method of casting on that's a modification of the long tail that makes what looks like a crochet chain along the edge, pretty for the cuff of socks. Also when I cast-on with 2 colors, it is pretty much a long tail with one color over index finger the other over the thumb. The amount of secondary color yarn needed is estimated the usual way. Wrapping loosely around needle 10 times, using that length as estimate for 10 stitches. Anyway, I like the variety in knitting techniques, such as throwers vs stabbers, and I approaching them all. Usually when someone gives me a suggestion I'll give it a whirl then decide if it is right for me. But I'm always thankful to know there are others out there who have been there done that and are willing to share their experience with me.


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## Friederike (Aug 26, 2011)

Marilynf said:


> It's possible you have a talent for knitting you only discovered a year ago. Maybe that's why some things are so intuitive for you. This is a happy thing for you. Lots of us need all the suggestions. With a knitted cast on, I seem to do it so tightly, I'd have given up knitting long ago if that's what I HAD to do. I think it's a tomato tomahto thing. You do what floats your boat and makes sure your experience is the most pleasant for you that you can make it.


Your comment about a tight cast on caught my eye. The way I learned how to cast on was to always use 2 needles. Maybe that'll help (just a friendly suggestion) :thumbup:


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## rshiver (Oct 4, 2012)

Learn to do the long tail cast on. It really is better--looks so much better. I too resisted it for a long time saying that the knitted cast on was fine, but it's loose and messy looking. I never use any other kind unless the directions call for it. Also it is really better to stop at the end of a row. Stitches aren't as likely to fall off or get messed up somehow. But,yes, there are emergencies, but be careful!


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

To answer your questions..

Read entire post ..most of these questions were answered in the posts you mentioned.

Just saying.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

rshiver said:


> Learn to do the long tail cast on. It really is better--looks so much better. I too resisted it for a long time saying that the knitted cast on was fine, but it's loose and messy looking. I never use any other kind unless the directions call for it. Also it is really better to stop at the end of a row. Stitches aren't as likely to fall off or get messed up somehow. But,yes, there are emergencies, but be careful!


the knitted or cable cast on is never loose or messy looking on any of my knitting.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

CamillaDesertMouse said:


> To answer your questions..
> 
> Read entire post ..most of these questions were answered in the posts you mentioned.
> 
> Just saying.


Um, thanks, but those were just two examples that I gave after reading( and comprehending) the entire threads that I loosely referred to.

The actual question was why do people give the answers that they give. It seems that people are comfortable knitting a certain way and don't question why or look to see if there are other options. That's all well and good, but those answers are incomplete.

How do you keep from losing your place knitting - what the crowd seemed to give as the most common answer is always work a complete row. ALWAYS. If the smoke alarm goes off and you are on stitch 40 of a 200 stitch row finish the row, calmly make a note of your place, then take care or life. However, if you learn to read stitched, you can count what row you were on and if you know which needle holds your last stitch, you can see exactly where you were AND deal with life. While keeping track of where you are in a pattern (writing it down, using stitch markers, finishing rows) is a good idea understanding what happens when you make a stitch (what it looks like, which needle has the yarn, etc) has made it so that I can find other peoples problems if they hand me their knitting and pattern. It just seems like a basic skill that knitters would want to know.

I need to find a hard pattern so I can see if it really is rocket science or just combinations of 4 or 5 basic things with some counting thrown in.


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## JanetK (Aug 31, 2011)

I was taught to knit using the cable cast on. When I learned about the long-tail cast on, I found I like it much better. I actually like the way my hands feel as they move through the steps to make the stitches. If someone hadn't answered my questions about doing it right, but had only told me to use a different cast-on that seemed simpler to them, I would never have learned the new skill.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

JanetK said:


> I was taught to knit using the cable cast on. When I learned about the long-tail cast on, I found I like it much better. I actually like the way my hands feel as they move through the steps to make the stitches. If someone hadn't answered my questions about doing it right, but had only told me to use a different cast-on that seemed simpler to them, I would never have learned the new skill.


But how did you learn that long tail cast on existed? I saw someone who said they've been knitting for decades and hadn't heard of a knitted cast on...

This isn't meant to be a holy war of some ways are better than others, it's very clear that everyone talks about hoe good diversity is. It is a question about where is the diversity being practiced?


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## sueba (Jul 13, 2012)

I did not read all the replys here - no reason to. You must 
learn things very fast with that list of things you have alteady made.Some people are very good
at everything they do. But that does not give one the right
to tell others that "they don't do things right"

If you don't agree with advice that you read -- fine.
Does that give someone the right to say the advice doesn't 
woek? no

This is a fun friendy place for us to just try to help each
other, If we were all doing thins the same way---things 
wouldn't be fun to do. Plus no reason to have 
KP.


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## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

Well put Sueba.



sueba said:


> I did not read all the replys here - no reason to. You must
> learn things very fast with that list of things you have alteady made.Some people are very good
> at everything they do. But that does not give one the right
> to tell others that "they don't do things right"
> ...


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## JanetK (Aug 31, 2011)

I learned to knit long before the Internet existed. As I became more interested in crafts, I checked books out of the library and tried different things. If one book didn't have all the info I needed, I'd find another one, or I'd find a relative, or someone at a craft or yarn store who could help. I very grateful that my questions were answered so that I could make my own decisions about what techniques worked best for me.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

elliferg said:


> CamillaDesertMouse said:
> 
> 
> > To answer your questions..
> ...


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Thank you (again) for your helpful teplys to my why question... As I did not tell anyone they knit wrong. I did say that some of the suggestions seem like they were dine just because rather than they were done with intention. I try to do things that are best for each individual situation.

It seems a lot of people have hurt feelings and were offended. That wasn't my goal, but to find out if there is actually something important about knitting that I am missing. I found my answer.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

elliferg said:


> JanetK said:
> 
> 
> > I was taught to knit using the cable cast on. When I learned about the long-tail cast on, I found I like it much better. I actually like the way my hands feel as they move through the steps to make the stitches. If someone hadn't answered my questions about doing it right, but had only told me to use a different cast-on that seemed simpler to them, I would never have learned the new skill.
> ...


The diversity is being practiced right here on this forum.
Almost in every post, you will get several different answers.
We learn from each other, be it a mile down the road or half way around the world.
Take the time to read them and you will understand.


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I had hoped people didn't think I was just trolling or trying to start trouble. I was/am honestly just trying to figure things out. In my knitting group, I am usually the one who goes and figures things out, if someone is stuck. I don't want to lead people astray in my quest for simplicity, but I also want to create more knitters and helping people make quality knitted items as easily as possible feels like the way to go.


It is great that knitting seems to be a 'natural' for you. And that you are curious to learn evertything. But keep in mind, that there are different types of cast ons, not just because the knitter is pleased with how one may work for them, but because there is purpose to each kind. Different cast ons produce different edges. Some are tighter, some are looser, some like the provisional are used to give you 'live' stitches to pick up later. So there is a place for each kind. You might want to research the different kinds of cast ons too, and learn why they are used.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Linda6885 said:


> elliferg said:
> 
> 
> > I had hoped people didn't think I was just trolling or trying to start trouble. I was/am honestly just trying to figure things out. In my knitting group, I am usually the one who goes and figures things out, if someone is stuck. I don't want to lead people astray in my quest for simplicity, but I also want to create more knitters and helping people make quality knitted items as easily as possible feels like the way to go.
> ...


...and that is part of what i am missing. For instance, in this thread, i learned that there are multiple ways to bind off. And, i got pointers to some knitting theory books (for lack if a better word). It didn't even occur to me that there would be multiple ways to cast off. Now, I gotta research a bunch of things explore what is better for various situations. Fun and right up my alley.

I don't just want to knit something... I want it to be done as good as I can possibly do it. The least amount of yarn and time, the most even stitches, the most appropriate cast on and bind off, the most appropriate increases and decreases, the most appropriate way to join in new yarn, the most appropriate yarn, the most appropriate needle type. Just how to make my finished product as good as I can...


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## KnittingNut (Jan 19, 2011)

Having no one to teach me how to knit, I checked out a library book on knitting and taught myself. That was 40 years ago. The cast on example in the book was the long tail cast on. I have used this method exclusively, and feel very comfortable using it. Until joining KP, I had not thought of using other methods. I have learned so much from this site that has expanded my knitting expertise. I also learned a few new techniques just from member answers to your question!


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

If you are right handed and stop in the middle of a row, when you come back to your project, the free yarn you are knitting from would be on the right needle. If you pick up your project and the free yarn is on the left needle, you are on the wrong side and need to turn it around. Hope this helps.


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I don't just want to knit something... I want it to be done as good as I can possibly do it. The least amount of yarn and time, the most even stitches, the most appropriate cast on and bind off, the most appropriate increases and decreases, the most appropriate way to join in new yarn, the most appropriate yarn, the most appropriate needle type. Just how to make my finished product as good as I can...


Ahh... a perfectionist! It's people like you who end up designing wonderful things for the rest of us.


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## LYTHAMSTANNES (Feb 8, 2011)

I almost always use the long tail cast on, it looks so nice. I also always use a row counter even on my circular projects, I just string the counter on the left over long tail yarn. Once you have been knitting a while, you will be able to "read" what you have knitted. Such if you have a knit row, then row 2 is a purl, and row 3 is the main pattern with various instructions and row 4 is a purl. You will be able to read this. Also the same goes for going across the row, you can always use stitch markers for a complicated pattern and especially when you are knitting a hat in the round and decreasing for the crown. It's better to always plan ahead and never have to rip out. Enjoy carefree knitting this way.


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## martyr (Feb 15, 2011)

elliferg said:


> I started knitting one year ago. In that time, I've made hats, scarves, stuffed animals, and socks. So, a little bit of lots of things (round, flat, reversible, short rows, kitchener stitches, color changes, cables, different decorative stitches, etc). After I made my first practice swatch, I made a scarf with ladder yarn. The I have been told by much more experienced knitters that my knitting looks nice and even.
> 
> Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things.
> 
> ...


I just got a new book that covers 54 cast ons and bind off. i too did the long tail for years because I didn't know any other, then i learned knit on and cable. Those are also good for cast-ons that occur in garment construction, when you cannot use the long tail. However it is a good cast on. Elastic and if you consider it the first row [ for rib of SS] and do a wrong side row, that will make it very neat.


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## LYTHAMSTANNES (Feb 8, 2011)

There are so many things on you-tube. I knitted a child's ski hat with two pom-poms at each end at the top. The way this was done was with a 3-needle cast, sounded hard. It made the top of the hat squared off. Watched it on you-tube, it was so easy and was perfect for a toddler. Learned how to cable on you-tube, also. Then there are web sites for other things, best one I like is purl-hunter. You watch her videos and you know exactly what to do. You can sit at your computer and do everything along with her and repeat the video serveral times until you feel comfortable doing it. I even learned how to do thumb gussets for mittens on you tube.


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## Rosy B (Mar 16, 2012)

Knitting isn't rocket science - there are only two stitches anyway, knit and purl. Where the skill comes in is how these two basic stitches are combined, how the item can be shaped using increasing and decreasing and how you finish it off.

I think all knitters care how their finished item will look and will want to make it the best it can be. Considering the cost of materials nowadays, I don't think anyone would want to waste yarn by using it carelessly.

Every ones skill level is different and there is no "one size fits all". Sometimes the most appropriate way is not always clear.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

Do it your way. That is what counts. If it works for you continue with it! I learned the basics from my mom when I was 7 years old. Then she just gave me the booklets and let me figure it out on my own. It seems you have done just about the same thing. Go with what works for you and stick with it.


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## SIPSIS (Oct 24, 2011)

Oftentimes, "simplicity" comes with Time... and a lot of practice, and sometimes a lot of "frogging". Eventually, you will find what is "comfortable" for you...You will find that "eveness" comes with consistency, whether it be knitting tightly or loosely...(Too tight can be tiresome on your hands, for sure!)

There are many ways to do things, since we are all from all over the world...Don't think I could ever get the hang of knitting as the Europeans do! But my friend learned how to knit that way and is quite proficient at it...Neither is right or wrong, and both ways produce beautiful items!

I've been knitting since the age of 8...and at the age of 64, I am still learning!! (Ever heard the expression "Ya learn something 'new', every day!"?) It's soooo true!!

You learn at the pace that is comfortable to you, and YOUR simplicity will find you!!  You might even eventually find that you had your 'simplicity' all along! 

Enjoy what you do...having fun with it is what shines thru in the end!

I am my own worst critic! Richard is always telling me, "Think of all the people out there who have no idea how to do all that you do...do you REALLY think they can pick your work apart? Better yet...do you have any idea how many people out there who don't have a clue HOW to knit, crochet, paint, draw, bead, do leathercraft, make baskets, sew, quilt? Just keep doing what you're doing!"

Like the other ladies said...so many sites online that are very informative! Most have very precise pictures of step-by-step instructions of how to do things! 

Enjoy the journey!!!


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## Coopwire (May 7, 2011)

I have been trying to keep my fingers off this keyboard, but I can't any longer. I feel I have to have my say. Elliferg, I found your original post and now your subsequent posts condescending and offensive. If I'm interpreting your written word incorrectly, I apologize. There are knitters on this forum who could probably teach you more about knitting that you even realize there is to know. Give people a little credit and respect.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Coopwire said:


> I have been trying to keep my fingers off this keyboard, but I can't any longer. I feel I have to have my say. Elliferg, I found your original post and now your subsequent posts condescending and offensive. If I'm interpreting your written word incorrectly, I apologize. There are knitters on this forum who could probably teach you more about knitting that you even realize there is to know. Give people a little credit and respect.


Please report me if I am offensive. I apologized multiple times in this thread, even while being accused of trying to stifle diversity when I asked where the diverse suggestions were. I apologized when people said that because I am a new knitter (calendarwise) that I must just not be experienced enough to understand the issues. I thanked multiple people, including those who not so nicely let me know how welcome my voice was in a thread I started.


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## Redhatchris (Apr 21, 2012)

How many more ways can you all split this hair? WOW.
I will opt out of this one now.


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## oldiesister (Jun 20, 2011)

Well elliferg you sure stirred the pot.lol but in doing so stimulated some good conversation. I really think that knitting is a very personal thing and having knitted for many many years and been a member of several groups am always amazed that I can learn a little more each time with each challenge ... happy knitting which ever way you decide to cast on or cast off ... just enjoy.


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

The MAIN reason I keep citing Lion Brand, Knittingfool, and About.com is that on dial-up I cannot get the Youtube/Windows Media Player related items to play on my system. AND I don't want to wait 5 years (or so it feels) to have the thing to load and play.

That is why I bypass those posts with video playing items. Not because I don't want to help. Because I cannot preview and recommend.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

kaixixang said:


> The MAIN reason I keep citing Lion Brand, Knittingfool, and About.com is that on dial-up I cannot get the Youtube/Windows Media Player related items to play on my system. AND I don't want to wait 5 years (or so it feels) to have the thing to load and play.
> 
> That is why I bypass those posts with video playing items. Not because I don't want to help. Because I cannot preview and recommend.


I hear yah on that!  
I was on dial up only because I HAD to at the time.
I hated not being able to help in that way.
And I also had to state in my requests "please no referrals to youtube, I can not watch them."
And we don't really know if the poster is even able to watch videos.

It is the thought that counts...
And that is why it takes other responses to help the poster.
I personally am glad that folks provide links to sites other than youtube.
More times than not, I prefer the written words.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

elliferg said:


> CamillaDesertMouse said:
> 
> 
> > To answer your questions..
> ...


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

JanetK said:


> I was taught to knit using the cable cast on. When I learned about the long-tail cast on, I found I like it much better. I actually like the way my hands feel as they move through the steps to make the stitches. If someone hadn't answered my questions about doing it right, but had only told me to use a different cast-on that seemed simpler to them, I would never have learned the new skill.


This whole thing is really making me crazy. Why do you think your way should be the only way? You may be able to grasp things easier then some, me included, but if we are happy doing it our way, why must you keep insisting it should be simpler? Just let it go. You do your way and we will do ours, drop it already.

Sorry my KP friends, but we all do things differently and it needed to be said, so thanks for the help and I will go now and find somewhere else if I get kicked off.
Sorr


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

baileysmom...
I think you are using the wrong person's quote.
You posted 2 different quotes.

I agree with what you say.
You aren't going anywhere.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

baileysmom said:


> elliferg said:
> 
> 
> > CamillaDesertMouse said:
> ...


Yes, some "was just sayin" that I should read the entire thread, when I had said that my question wasn't about either of those problems (I choose not to use a cast on that requires estimating) and I learned how to read my stitches the day I learned to knit (I wanted to make sure I was making the stitches correctly). I did a slightly confused "um, thanks", and gave an additional example. Yes, there was hypebole involved, but it was later explained to me that "always" actually means "usually" or "if at all possible". It does make "always finish a row possible, when read like that, but I am really wierd (probably the computer programmer in me) where always has just the dictionary meaning. It's a flaw I recognize in myself. I tend to take things literally.

As far as checking out a hard pattern, I am planning on doing it. Knitting is sometimes tedious and often takes attention, but I really am looking for the rocket science.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> baileysmom...
> I think you are using the wrong person's quote.
> You posted 2 different quotes.
> 
> ...


I apologize for putting my quote in the wrong place, especially underneath the wrong name.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

baileysmom said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > baileysmom...
> ...


That's okay, you still have time to go to that post, click edit, and delete the quote part.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

And just for the record, I have no intention of stalking anyone and changing how they knit. If you're happy, then its working. I'm also not forcing anyone to read, follow, or reply to this thread.

If you just wanna knit how you learned, that's way cool. If you are interested in answering some of my "why should/would it be done a specific way" then that's cool, too. Neither makes you a bad person or a bad knitter. It's part of that whole diversity thing that I hate so much by asking a question like "why is the long tail cast on seemingly so popular and not some of the others". Or why not keep track of your place and learn how to double check your work? Both of those show that I definitely think that there us only one true way to knit and I figured it out in less than a year. Which is why I realtime thought I was missing something. 
Like I have said, I learned a lot on this thread.
Thank you again, and sorry for questioning the party line. I should know better, but I will probably make the mistake again.


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

dianaiad said:


> Beth72 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with marilynf. You must be very adept and a fast learner. I taught my self 3 yrs ago I still cannot do the kitchner stitch, and I will learn it eventually. Right now I am doing simpler things to give me a more comfortable confident feeling about my skills. I have knitted hats, scraves, animals and afghans. Sometimes even using my own pattern. Socks have me stumped but I know I will get it sooner later. As she said whatever floats your boat. Some people really need to ask these questions. That's what this forum is for. Not everyone catches on as easily as you seem to have done.
> ...


BRILLIANT!!!!


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## 2mchyrn (Jun 17, 2012)

Marilynf said:


> It's possible you have a talent for knitting you only discovered a year ago. Maybe that's why some things are so intuitive for you. This is a happy thing for you. Lots of us need all the suggestions. With a knitted cast on, I seem to do it so tightly, I'd have given up knitting long ago if that's what I HAD to do. I think it's a tomato tomahto thing. You do what floats your boat and makes sure your experience is the most pleasant for you that you can make it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## ruthkk (Jan 25, 2011)

Sometimes the answers you get here can be very judgmental, assuming you are doing something wrong even when you are not. Sometimes they are very useful and give you other things to try or think about. There are so many ways to do most things so just try what you think will help. Several books that I have suggest wrapping the yarn around the needle for 10 or 20 stitches, then multiplying that length to estimate the long-tail. Some work from the inside and outside of the yarn ball or from 2 separate balls.


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## Rosy B (Mar 16, 2012)

As I said in an earlier post, thank goodness we don't all do things the same way, we'd just be like machines doing things the most logical and efficient way.

If the most important thing was to cut down on wasted time, money and effort we'd all have brown carpets so the dirt doesn't show because that would really be sensible. None of us would have pets or children so we could have more time and money and not have to clean up so much. :lol: 

Sorry if this comes across as sarcastic, it's hard to be amusing in this medium without sounding a bit sarcastic.

To be quite honest, I knit and do other crafts as a form of relaxation primarily and the end products are my reward. I'm retired now so have more time to indulge myself but when I worked, it was nice to get away from all the various stresses and concentration required to do a good job. 

If my knitting became something I had to analyse and dissect, it would be more like work and I wouldn't enjoy it as much.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

Rosy B said:


> As I said in an earlier post, thank goodness we don't all do things the same way, we'd just be like machines doing things the most logical and efficient way.
> 
> If the most important thing was to cut down on wasted time, money and effort we'd all have brown carpets so the dirt doesn't show because that would really be sensible. None of us would have pets or children so we could have more time and money and not have to clean up so much. :lol:
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

Rosy B said:


> As I said in an earlier post, thank goodness we don't all do things the same way, we'd just be like machines doing things the most logical and efficient way.
> 
> If the most important thing was to cut down on wasted time, money and effort we'd all have brown carpets so the dirt doesn't show because that would really be sensible. None of us would have pets or children so we could have more time and money and not have to clean up so much. :lol:
> 
> ...


See, more diversity, here... I avoid carpets so my cats and son can exist, without making me crazy from having to follow after them all the time. But, living in the south, it is a little easier. 

Now, I find analysing things relaxing. Pulling order out of the chaos comforts me. If I wasn't allowed to do it, knitting would frustrate me. In fact, knitting WITHOUT understanding the why's behind what I am doing, would make ME feel like a machine.

And frankly, I do feel that I have been fairly soundly discouraged from doing that. Maybe, because it sounds like I am judging people who don't - especially by people who don't care why they do things or just font know - I don't know.

But really, all of you came and joined me in a thread that I started, following the rules. I intentionally did not try and hijack someone's thread with this moderately existential question. Some were welcoming and helpful (many in private messages), but more than I expected were just not very approving.

I never imagined that asking why would be so taboo. As they say, diversity is good, as long as you agree with everyone else.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

elliferg said:


> Rosy B said:
> 
> 
> > As I said in an earlier post, thank goodness we don't all do things the same way, we'd just be like machines doing things the most logical and efficient way.
> ...


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I always wonder why people will quote a reply and not say anything. If you agree with the post, does it need repeating?


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

chickkie said:


> I always wonder why people will quote a reply and not say anything. If you agree with the post, does it need repeating?


I did say something, but I don't know where it went. No I don't agree with her post.


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## atsrks (Oct 10, 2011)

If you have to stop in the middle of a row - when you get back to it, try undoing a stitch or two - that way you know if you're going backwards or not


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## atsrks (Oct 10, 2011)

If you have to stop in the middle of a row - when you get back to it, try undoing a stitch or two - that way you know if you're going backwards or not


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

> See, more diversity, here... I avoid carpets so my cats and son can exist, without making me crazy from having to follow after them all the time. But, living in the south, it is a little easier.
> 
> Now, I find analysing things relaxing. Pulling order out of the chaos comforts me. If I wasn't allowed to do it, knitting would frustrate me. In fact, knitting WITHOUT understanding the why's behind what I am doing, would make ME feel like a machine.
> 
> ...


Oh, m'dear, if you think you were scolded on that thread, you have no clue whatsoever the sort of things that can be said to people who post here. Now me, I'm very used to online debate in political and religious debate forums. I THOUGHT I was immured to the nastiest level of discourse imaginable; I have been consigned to the hells of almost every belief system extant...and if atheists had a hell I'd be roasting THERE. You haven't lived until you are a Mormon posting on a fundamentalist Christian evangelistic forum, or better still, a Romney supporter arguing with a bunch of eastern atheist college graduates with big vocabularies. 

In all the years I have been debating online (and off) with people who think the 'f' word is the universal adjective, I should have been prepared for Knitting Paradise--but I wasn't. There are threads here filled with enough vitriol to dissolve Mt. Everest and leave a hole in the planet. I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK that one woman may have lost her business because of the reaction to one of her posts regarding the rescue of a feral cat and her kittens.

Well, that post WAS a little off the wall, but still.....

ANYway, one of the reasons I participated and stuck with THIS thread is because I was rather impressed by the politeness with which your question was treated. I didn't see many posts which were critical of you; just a great deal of a: encouragement and b: advice and reasons why a long tail cast on might be the way to go sometimes, and why there ARE different ways to cast on/cast off and do other things that result in a lovely knitted item.

This includes my own responses to you. I really was impressed by the level of courtesy shown you....because, frankly, your first post was rather judgmental. It set ME back on my heels, anyway! My own first impression of it took me back to my first experience with a knitting instructor (I taught myself to knit), who saw that I purled 'wrong' and let me know in no uncertain terms that I was 'twisting the stitches' and that I was 'doing it all wrong." It looked fine to me...and in fact, WAS fine; no twisted stitches at all. In fact, my knitting was more even and closer to gauge than was hers. But, y'see, I wasn't doing it the 'efficient' way, or 'the way it's done." I wasn't 'doing it right." I read your post, and I flashed back to her. I had to read it a couple of times before I could get past what I saw as the 'attitude' and get to the question--because I don't think you actually meant to be rude. It's just that you were, well....were.

I did get past that; as I mentioned, I don't think you meant to come off that way, so I answered it. There are many ways to cast on, and people choose the methods according to several criteria; what they want the edge to look like, how much stretch they want....and how comfortable they are with the method. I use five types, primarily, and the long-tail cast on is one of those. It all depends on what I want the finished object to look like and do. That's part of being efficient, too.

Y'know, there's no college degree in "Proper Knitting," and nobody wearing your work is going to give a good hoot whether you cast on this way...or that way...unless your method of casting on made the neck of the sweater so inflexible that she can't get it over her head.

Oddly enough, I'm more like you than you might think. I really resented that snarky knitting teacher and her 'my way or the highway' method. The REASON that my knitting was smooth and even in spite of "purling wrong,' was that I sat down and analyzed for myself how the yarn lay on the needles. I figured out exactly why the stitches lean one way if you ssk, and the other if you k2together. I practiced the cast on methods to see which one looked best or had the right amount of stretch for the piece. I figured out how to do a long tail cast on that doesn't require estimating the yarn tail...and insures that there's always enough yarn, but not too much, without having to measure anything.

I understand the need to figure out the best way to do things, and to use that best way...and you are very much on the right track to question 'the way it's always done.'

That's why I wrote that you were the sort of person who would end up designing knitting patterns for the rest of us. You question, you analyze and you examine. You will be able to teach us some great things....but not if you turn into that knitting teacher I was talking about.

You knit your way...and your way will change as you learn more about knitting. That's a GOOD thing.

It's also a good thing to realize that all knitters are not alike. SOME of us knit, not for the puzzle solving aspect of it, but for the meditative effect; like prayer or chanting, only with something cool at the end of it. These knitters frankly don't care if they ever get to the 'finished object.' Some of them actively mourn when they do. Some calmly examine every single stitch. Some fly. Some knit only scarves because they are 'easy.' Some want to do Faroese shawls in Estonian lace with size 00 needles. Some, like you and me, want to understand the yarn, the fabric and why it behaves the way it does. Some just want to feel the yarn and watch the project grow from nothing to something wonderful. Some are all of the above, depending. That's the delight of knitting; it's at once a community...and a very individual...choice and craft.


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

chickkie said:


> I always wonder why people will quote a reply and not say anything. If you agree with the post, does it need repeating?


When that happens, I assume that the poster did comment, but somehow the comment didn't arrive with the quote.

It happens more frequently than we like, and it happens to ALL of us. It even happens to computer geeks, nerds and bloggers. Every time I've seen it happen, it's been a goof, not a deliberate choice.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

dianaiad said:


> chickkie said:
> 
> 
> > I always wonder why people will quote a reply and not say anything. If you agree with the post, does it need repeating?
> ...


Thanks!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Coopwire said:


> I have been trying to keep my fingers off this keyboard, but I can't any longer. I feel I have to have my say. Elliferg, I found your original post and now your subsequent posts condescending and offensive. If I'm interpreting your written word incorrectly, I apologize. There are knitters on this forum who could probably teach you more about knitting that you even realize there is to know. Give people a little credit and respect.


Once again, we have diversity of all kinds at play here. DH had knee replacement surgery yesterday so I didn't get to this thread until today, and BOY, am I sorry I missed it live! I think it's one of the best threads I've seen in a long time. We have marvelous people from all walks of life and all skill levels coming together about a subject we all love.

No matter what we talk about, there are always some who will feel offended it seems (including me sometimes). There will always be those who feel their way is the only "right" way. Because this is a forum with diverse countries, diverse areas, diverse people, how can we expect anything else? I love it, even when we don't agree; that's how we learn.

Since KP, I have learned to crochet, I have learned to knit lace, I have learned new thoughts, attitudes, techniques. My knitting/crocheting knowledge has taken off by leaps and bounds. Once again, I love it, and I'm soooo grateful for the tremendous opportunities this forum provides. It's sometimes painful to be "blasted" out of my ruts of many years, but the payoff is wonderful; every time I begin feeling complacent, I find another area in which I need to learn and grow, including in how to efficiently and relatively painlessly interact with others. My world becomes so much larger and less confining.

If you're on KP regularly, you're not missing much :~D!!!


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

@Dianaiad - sorry, just don't want a wall of quote....

So, I wouldn't have felt so attacked, had people not told me "KP is a friendly place, shut up and stop rocking the boat". It is far easier to read posts that agree with you as polite and helpful, and posts that don't as combative. It's human nature to do so.

As you say, I am not your old knitting teacher and I can't help how you feel (about her or anything else). You are responsible for your own emotions, and I for mine.

I have said multiple times that I am not trying to change how anybody else knits. If you make what you intended, then you are successful. BUT, if people tell me not to analyse my knitting or question why something is done a certain way they are trying to change how I knit. It sure feels like a double standard to me, but being on the less vocal end of the argument it would (see my first paragraph). When you are holding the sword, it doesn't feel as sharp as the target perceives it to be. 

There is a knitter in my group who will never learn to read her stitches. No interest, lack of aptitude, whatevs - doesn't matter. Her girlfriend counts her cast ons, to make sure they are right, and if she messes things up, she brings it to me and I figure it out for her. Do I understand how she can possibly knit like that (she used to bring her mistakes to a yarn shop for help)? No. Does it really matter? No. She is happy with her results.

My knitting has evolved a lot in the approximately 2000 hours that I have knitted. The hat that I designed (and sold multiple copies of when I had been knitting for a little over a month) is not done how I will do it this year. While it was functional, it could be better. If I make them again next year, I am sure it will be different yet again.

Again, nobody has to change how they knit, or even participate in this thread. But, if you either outright say, or imply, that I shouldn't ask this kind if question you are trying to change how I knit. It won't be successful, but it makes me doubt that this really is the friendly, welcoming community that people think it is.


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## 2mchyrn (Jun 17, 2012)

dianaiad said:


> > See, more diversity, here... I avoid carpets so my cats and son can exist, without making me crazy from having to follow after them all the time. But, living in the south, it is a little easier.
> >
> > Now, I find analysing things relaxing. Pulling order out of the chaos comforts me. If I wasn't allowed to do it, knitting would frustrate me. In fact, knitting WITHOUT understanding the why's behind what I am doing, would make ME feel like a machine.
> >
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

because if you do not try the long tail cast on you will miss its wonderful even tailored elasticity, other cast ons are fine and have a special place for instance on a purse or bag i might use cable cast on and the reverse cast on for adding stitches ie after a thumb cast off but invariably i always come back to long tail and after a while of practicing you will know automatically how long the tail has to be or you can even use two threads for this try all kinds of cast ons/offs the more you know the better and more confident knitter you will be


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

donmaur said:


> because if you do not try the long tail cast on you will miss its wonderful even tailored elasticity, other cast ons are fine and have a special place for instance on a purse or bag i might use cable cast on and the reverse cast on for adding stitches ie after a thumb cast off but invariably i always come back to long tail and after a while of practicing you will know automatically how long the tail has to be or you can even use two threads for this try all kinds of cast ons/offs the more you know the better and more confident knitter you will be


I've tried the long tail cast on (we actually joke that it looks like drawing a star in your hand). I don't like it, at least for now.  There are 5 very regular knitters in my group, 2 always use long tail, 2 always use knit on, and believe it or not, I am the one that varies my cast on method and it's my goal to use the one that will make the best end product. I gravitate to the knitted, but I do vary it if its just not working for me.

I just went to bookfinder.com and order the Vogue Knitopedia and Cast On Bind Off (two suggestions from this thread).


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## oleganny (Oct 14, 2011)

<SNIP>Again, nobody has to change how they knit, or even participate in this thread. But, if you either outright say, or imply, that I shouldn't ask this kind if question you are trying to change how I knit. It won't be successful, but it makes me doubt that this really is the friendly, welcoming community that people think it is.[/quote]

It is so hard to communicate just by typing - you can't see the smile or the body language of the person you are communicating with. I really don't think anyone is trying to change how you knit or condemn you for doing it the way you do. There are very few patterns I do that I don't think I could do it "this" way quicker & easier. I've changed many patterns - sometimes with good results & sometimes disasterous results. 
KP is a very friendly, helpful place & I am so sorry you percieve yourself to be under attack. I would be very surprised if anyone meant their post to be judgemental.

Hugs
Shirley in Indiana


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## dianaiad (Feb 9, 2011)

elliferg said:


> @Dianaiad - sorry, just don't want a wall of quote....


Not a problem. That was a LOOOONG post. I was trying to be supportive of what I thought you were trying to do, while letting you know why I thought you were getting a bit 'nattered at."



elliferg said:


> So, I wouldn't have felt so attacked, had people not told me "KP is a friendly place, shut up and stop rocking the boat".


Someone actually told you that? In quotes?



elliferg said:


> It is far easier to read posts that agree with you as polite and helpful, and posts that don't as combative. It's human nature to do so.


Yes. However....when someone writes :"Here's my question, I see questions posted here, and it seems like a lot of the answers are the least practical way to do things. "

It's really difficult not to see "you aren't doing it the right way." coming out of the above. As if 'practical' is the one and only proper criterion for judging methods and results, and that the way you do it is obviously THE most practical.

I know you didn't mean it that way. At least I think you didn't mean it that way. but....

I hope that helps you understand some of the reactions.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

elliferg said:


> donmaur said:
> 
> 
> > because if you do not try the long tail cast on you will miss its wonderful even tailored elasticity, other cast ons are fine and have a special place for instance on a purse or bag i might use cable cast on and the reverse cast on for adding stitches ie after a thumb cast off but invariably i always come back to long tail and after a while of practicing you will know automatically how long the tail has to be or you can even use two threads for this try all kinds of cast ons/offs the more you know the better and more confident knitter you will be
> ...


While I don't agree with you and said my piece, I would never tell someone else to shut up and stop rocking the boat. I apologize if I was over critical. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings if I did. Glad I didn't post that nasty remark.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

elliferg said:


> Coopwire said:
> 
> 
> > I have been trying to keep my fingers off this keyboard, but I can't any longer. I feel I have to have my say. Elliferg, I found your original post and now your subsequent posts condescending and offensive. If I'm interpreting your written word incorrectly, I apologize. There are knitters on this forum who could probably teach you more about knitting that you even realize there is to know. Give people a little credit and respect.
> ...


I do not know what it is about this otherwise wonderful forum, but some people will insist on taking things wrong, on taking offense, on being disagreeable and/or on finding ways to put a person with an honest question down in some way or multiple ways. I've been reading through the thread and find it dismaying that they're out in force, it seems. I'm going to start taking note of just WHO it is that "contributes" in this way.

Your question was fine, your participation after that has been, IMO, just fine. Sorry for the unwarranted grief you're getting. Fortunately, it really is just a few rather than the majority.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

:idea: I usually use the "long tail" cast on. I use two yarns: one from the INSIDE and one from the OUTSIDE of the skein. I cut off one strand when I finish casting on and weave the end in when finishing. 
I don't have to calculate/guess how much yarn I need for the CO.
I don't run out of yarn before the CO is finished.


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

It's not a direct quote, but how I felt with all the
Why would you attack us by asking why we do it our way? Especially, when the whole question was I am new, it doesn't seem as hard (to me) as it sounds like some people make it (to me), so what am I missing. It appears that I was missing that people are different - which I got and acknowledged on the first page, or maybe the second. 

People knit for different reasons and have different natural abilities. They even have different things that make them feel comfortable. While MANY people who posted are comfortable knitting without delving into the why's and wherefore's, there are also people out there that are bothered doing something if they don't know how it works. Different ways of thinking.

As was pointed out, many knitters don't want to be called practical. So how could it be an insult to say that it didn't seem practical to me? Who cares? It's not a value judgement, and definitely not one that would matter to me. Back when I played violin, I was a very technically competent player. My notes were in tune, my beat was rock steady, and I was told my music lacked emotion. All true, and none an attack. I won competitions, but knew that a career in music wasn't for me. It didn't change the pleasure I got from playing, any more than an artistic player would lose pleasure because their play was called emotional.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

I suspect that many of us have deep inferiority feelings just waiting to be hooked by the unsuspecting; that's sad because it causes misinterpretations and hurt feelings all the way around. Sometimes we just have to let someone else's problems remain someone else's problems because we can't undo the life experiences that caused the inferiority feelings. Everyone has to choose whether to grow out of them...it isn't easy but it is rewarding.


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## Redhatchris (Apr 21, 2012)

atsrks said:


> If you have to stop in the middle of a row - when you get back to it, try undoing a stitch or two - that way you know if you're going backwards or not


Why would you have to undo anything? Just look at where the working yarn is and hold that needle in your right hand. Period. 
I never saw so much jawing over almost nothing!


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## iriscus (Feb 20, 2012)

I have been knitting for about 77 years and have my own style of knitting with no problems but one can always learn new things as I have since joining knittingparadise. So you are never too old learn something. :lol:


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## Rosy B (Mar 16, 2012)

I don't think anyone is telling you that you shouldn't analyse your own work, I certainly didn't, I just said I didn't need to, so if that's what interests you go for it. 

I think maybe you have unintentionally offended people by your suggestion that by not doing as you do, we are not bothered by the way our work turns out. Considering that most people give or sell their work, that implies a certain lack of care for the recipient.

As you will be aware from reading many of the posts on here, people do worry endlessly about their work, which is why we see so many questions and answers. So to go back to your original post, the reason there are so many different answers to the questions, is because we do care how it turns out and we want to help those that are struggling. 

If you felt you were attacked for voicing your opinion, then you can see why other people felt attacked for voicing theirs. This is a friendly and welcoming forum and like with our friends in the real world, things can get "lost in translation".


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

elliferg said:


> It's not a direct quote, but how I felt with all the
> Why would you attack us by asking why we do it our way?
> *Admitted---NOT a direct quote.
> You read into the post what you wanted to.
> ...


*IMHO...this is gone way beyond the realm of this forum.
I suggest taking courses in Psychology, Sociology, Cultural Behaviors, Human Behaviors, The Human Psyche.
Maybe even delve into the quest for the meaning of life. *


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## elliferg (Oct 1, 2012)

I delved into the meaning of life when I held my patners hand 6 weeks ago as he died in the chair I am sitting in at this moment after my far too short stint as his hospice nurse. Finding order in knitting helped keep me sane.

Feel free to drop off the discussion if you feel it is not useful. There is a handy unwatch check box.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

I am truly sorry for your loss.
My partner was in my arms when he passed on.
And I do understand about finding order in ones' life.
Wish you well in that aspect.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

When all else fails, I use paper and pen for keeping track of rows. Sometimes I use the l l l l with the 5th row slanted over the 4 lines. Other times I actually list the rows 1 2 3 4 5 etc. and cross out each as I finish the row. I have row counters that slide on the needles, but the paper and pen method works the best for me. At 69 (70 in December) I guess I just like things simple and old fashioned.

Whatever method you use, keep on knitting. I think it is great therapy and so relaxing and rewarding to have a great finished project when you are done.


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## baileysmom (Aug 28, 2012)

Redhatchris said:


> atsrks said:
> 
> 
> > If you have to stop in the middle of a row - when you get back to it, try undoing a stitch or two - that way you know if you're going backwards or not
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## 3mom (Apr 20, 2011)

elliferg said:


> Casey -
> I can totally see how that method of estimating would work. I just don't see why you would choose to estimate when you don't have to.
> 
> I do most of my knitting on circular needles - I got one of the interchangeable sets for Christmas last year - and I just slide my work down to keep it from falling off. I always give my stitches a little tug as I start back up to keep the stitches even. When knitting it the round, I have never knitted in the wrong direction because I know which needle the yarn is supposed to hang off of. If its on the wrong side, I switch hands. It always works. I can't count how many times something comes up and I have to pause the knitting. I would never get any knitting done if it had to br in increments of a row.
> ...


Hey, I'm all for improving things and doing the easiest way, but sometimes that is doing the way you have forever, and I agree that if it works, you feel comfortable, and it gets the job done, do it--in other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sounds to me like you've been doing great!!!! (BTW, if your thumb cast on is too tight, use a larger size needle)


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## justfara (Sep 9, 2011)

This thread made me think about things and I discussed it with one of my friends with whom I knit with twice a week. She's also been knitting for 50 plus years as I have and usually casts on with the cable method while I am a long tail. She had never even heard of the long tail, so with the conversation, had me show her. After about two minutes, she asked why she had ever thought to do it any other way than the long tail! And, she's a thrower and I am continental.

She just loved the speed and neatness that the long tail makes.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

Well! Ain't it funny how different knitters feel about the same thing so differently? For me, the cable cast on is stretchier than the long tail, which I tend to do rather tightly, using a larger ndl to get the right gauge. :shock: 


Carolmwl said:


> For starting the cuff of a sock, as far as I'm concerned, a long tail cast on is the only way to go, 'cause it's a bit stretchier.
> 
> In fact, I use that particular cast on anytime I want some extra stretch, for sweaters, etc.
> 
> ...


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## macnurse (May 13, 2012)

As far as the long tail cast on...it is the most elastic one or so my LYS owner states and is used commonly when knitting socks so that the tops have give...otherwise, I do a knit cast on because I like it better.


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