# Lace carriage dropping stitches



## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

I bought a lace carriage said to be working good. This is my first time to own one so I don't really know how to use it properly. I am using DAK 8 with it. It is an LC580 lace carriage on an SR SK840 machine. I can't finish one whole row without dropping stitches on the side. The side cams are set 4 stitches in on both sides. I tried using the brother cast on comb with/without weights on it. Knitted a few rows with waste yarn then ravel cord before doing lace but still drops stitches. I knitted with the ribbing, still drops stitches. The dropped stitches starts on the sides and then after 2 or 3 rows, the middle ones starts dropping too. Please help.


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

Possibly you need to move your weights up more often. Also check your needles - if the latches are slightly stiff or bent then this could cause dropped stitches.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I think what Jaysclark has said could be the answer to your problem.
I always take off the comb and put claw weights on the knitting and move them up as the knitting grows.
I know others have said to have lace knitting hanging over the ribber. I never do this, I let it hang between the ribber and the main bed. In my opinion to have it pulled forward over the ribber is taking it away from the main bed needles at a strange angle.
You could also try tightening the tension on the mast. Your stitches could be too loose for the carriage to transfer them correctly.


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

susieknitter said:


> I think what Jaysclark has said could be the answer to your problem.
> I always take off the comb and put claw weights on the knitting and move them up as the knitting grows.
> I know others have said to have lace knitting hanging over the ribber. I never do this, I let it hang between the ribber and the main bed. In my opinion to have it pulled forward over the ribber is taking it away from the main bed needles at a strange angle.
> You could also try tightening the tension on the mast. Your stitches could be too loose for the carriage to transfer them correctly.


On the last picture, I didn't really knit it that way. I just pulled it out for taking pictures.


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## rainbirdoz (Nov 7, 2012)

Some machines do actually knit lace better when the work is draped over the ribber so you culd try it that way too, but cover the ribber with a plastic bag (unless you have a set of ribber covers) so that your knitting doesn't get caught on the ribber needles.
Could you post a picture of the punchcard you are using just in case there is something wrong with that?
Sheila


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I have noted that you are putting the pattern from DAK to the machine. Maybe it has something to do with that.
I'm afraid I don't know much about DAK but am I right in thinking that DAK has a separate program called the lace tool that you need to use? What little bit of pattern you have showing doesn't look right to me. Maybe someone more knowledgeable in using DAK could give you some advice.


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## shirleycurly60 (Mar 18, 2011)

Check all needles that they are not sticking.Try tightening the top tension a little or slow down a bit( you lose stitches if you turn quickly). also move weights up every 5 Or !0 rows and add more weights.


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## Peanut Tinker (Oct 10, 2012)

I had the same problems when I first started to use my lace carriage- very frustrating! I found that certain yarns worked better than other and the swatches showed me what worked best- as well I put as much weight as I could without knocking over my machine! A steady even pace helps as well. I have found that hanging it over the ribber seems to make it work better too .

I still have had problems but then I really have to check the yarn type, the tension and weights. I found that the fashioned lace is more of a problem (when you do 2 rows of knit and then 8 rows of transfers) I have to be super careful for those types of patterns. 
Good luck- it will eventually work out.


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

I will try with all your suggestions and see what will happen. Here's the lace pattern I am working with. I copied that from a book. It was converted by the DAK lace tool to SR pattern (I think).


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

Peanut Tinker said:


> I had the same problems when I first started to use my lace carriage- very frustrating! I found that certain yarns worked better than other and the swatches showed me what worked best- as well I put as much weight as I could without knocking over my machine! A steady even pace helps as well. I have found that hanging it over the ribber seems to make it work better too .
> 
> I still have had problems but then I really have to check the yarn type, the tension and weights. I found that the fashioned lace is more of a problem (when you do 2 rows of knit and then 8 rows of transfers) I have to be super careful for those types of patterns.
> Good luck- it will eventually work out.


What type of yarns do you use? And what yarns work best with the lace carriage?


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## Piper Too (Oct 27, 2012)

Lace knitting is on Single bed use only. Therefore, the single bed clamps must be used to make the knitter sit flat.

That angle is exactly 90 degrees for the knitting to hang down from the knitter bed. Some knitters do bring the knitting out over the ribber if that is attached for the time of knitting, ...but it is best to remove the ribber & ribber clamps, & replace with the knitting bed lower clamps.

Good luck.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I have made a lot of lace garments/blankets on different makes of machines. I have never taken the ribber off and I always let the lace knitting fall between the main bed and the ribber. Doing this as never created a problem for me.
This is a lace top that was done with the ribber dropped to it's lowest point and the lace knitting falling between the two beds.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-86675-1.html


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

susieknitter said:


> I have made a lot of lace garments/blankets on different makes of machines. I have never taken the ribber off and I always let the lace knitting fall between the main bed and the ribber. Doing this as never created a problem for me.
> This is a lace top that was done with the ribber dropped to it's lowest point and the lace knitting falling between the two beds.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-86675-1.html


Wish I had a 10th of your talent


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

jaysclark said:


> Wish I had a 10th of your talent


Thank you Jaysclark........but I do make some "OH DEAR'S" :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## eileenjc (Jul 29, 2011)

Hi,
I had this problem once,then I found if I started using the lace carriage from the other side of the machine,it worked coreectly,Dak usually tell you which side to start.

Eileen


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

susieknitter said:


> I have made a lot of lace garments/blankets on different makes of machines. I have never taken the ribber off and I always let the lace knitting fall between the main bed and the ribber. Doing this as never created a problem for me.
> This is a lace top that was done with the ribber dropped to it's lowest point and the lace knitting falling between the two beds.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-86675-1.html


Hello Sue, thank you for sharing your creations! They are great! I love the jacket and the lace top. I wish I will be lucky to figure out what's going on with my carriage.


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## suemoo00 (Aug 27, 2012)

I think you main problem is the weight you are using I use the ribber weights and always let lace knitting come out over the ribber . and also claw weights on edges.


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## suemoo00 (Aug 27, 2012)

I think you main problem is the weight you are using I use the ribber weights and always let lace knitting come out over the ribber . and also claw weights on edges.


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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

One of you problems may be the lace pattern in DAK - I know there have been problems with the lace patterns. It may not be your carriage or the sponge bar. Make sure your arm (the silver part on the front of the carriage) is not bent. If the arm and the carriage have been laid down together, it could get bent. This will affect they way your stitches are being made. 
Back to DAK. Double check the direction you should be knitting your lace. And the direction the stitches should be transferred.


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I did check everything and did all your suggestions. I may just return the carriage to the seller tomorrow.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

msaltmyer said:


> Hello Sue, thank you for sharing your creations! They are great! I love the jacket and the lace top. I wish I will be lucky to figure out what's going on with my carriage.


Thank you for your compliment, I wish I could help you figure out the problem that you have.
I believe what 30knitter has said could well be right. Instead of it being a problem with the carriage/weights/yarn/etc I think....like 30knitter.....that it is more than likely something to do with DAK.
I don't know much about DAK so I cant advice you on it.
I cant understand why......in the first two pictures of your knitting you have 3 holes considering that (looking at the punch card) you should only have 2 offset holes. To me it just doesn't look like the pattern. 
Why don't you try inputting the pattern again or even try a different lace pattern?


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

I tried about 5 different lace patterns. Two I made with the lace tool of DAK, then the others came from the DAK program for Silver Reed.


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## mannie (Mar 24, 2013)

Hello, I too am having problems with knitting lace, using SK840 electronic machine, and DAK, also Silverknit.

I have knitted lace successfully in the past with punchcard machines, so I know the basics about yarn, tension, weights, etc.

With punchcard knitting you get little plastic bits to put on the end needles to stop those needles trying to transfer.

With the electronic machine, the handbook says to put the point cams two needles in, which I have tried. Big problem. The handbook assumes you are using EC1 and Mylar sheet, and in that case, perhaps that would work - I haven't tried that. But with DesignaKnit and Silverknit the rules about what happens outside of the point cams seem to be different. Instead od plain knitting those needles all try to transfer!

With silverknit there is a partial way around this. You specify the width of patterning you require, and add margins to it. Example, piece of knitting is 64 stitches wide, so point cams are set at 32 and 32. Width is set to 60, left and right margins are each set to 2. This works just fine, lace happens across the middle 60 stitches and the two end stitches knit plain. But it all goes wrong if you try to increase or decrease.

I have found reference to this problem elsewhere on the net, but so far, no solutions. I don't have the DAK lace tool, maybe that would help. 

I would really love to solve this problem and be able to knit lace confidently, including shaping. Has anyone else succeeded, using Knitmaster electronic machines, lace carriage and DAK?

Mannie


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

Mannie....I don't have a 840 or DAK so I don't know if this will be any help to you.
I had an older Knitmaster (Silver Reed) electronic model. Where you have stated the following.......

With silverknit there is a partial way around this. You specify the width of patterning you require, and add margins to it. Example, piece of knitting is 64 stitches wide, so point cams are set at 32 and 32. Width is set to 60, left and right margins are each set to 2. This works just fine, lace happens across the middle 60 stitches and the two end stitches knit plain. But it all goes wrong if you try to increase or decrease

On the machine that I had....if you needed to increase/decrease....you move the point cam opposite the carriage to the new needle required. The point cams told the machine where you wanted the pattern to start and end.
Hope that this helps.


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## mannie (Mar 24, 2013)

Thanks, yes that is what you would expect. The problem is trying to stop the end needles transferring stitches to needles which are not there, because the patterning keeps on happening right up to the edge of the work. If the cam points are just inside the edges then any needles beyond the cams ALL try to transfer! They don't have the sense to realise that they should just knit plain.

I have just been trying out another idea, with some success. On a row when I know a transfer is going to happen I bring forward a non-working needle next to the needles in work (just to B position of course) at the side opposite the carriage and then if a transfer happens it is much easier to "prong" it back to its next-door neighbour than it is to try and correct the dropped stitches. They run down so fast with all that weight on. This method is slow, but safer.

I will keep on trying. Your lace work looks really lovely.
Mannie


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

Hi Mannie,

I came across this website when I was banging my head to make this work.

http://www.knitalongcafe.com/MachineKnitting/tabid/230/entryid/249/Automatic-Lace-with-DAK-and-the-LC580-Lace-Carriage.aspx

It suggests that you edit your DAK lace pattern to have at least 2 stockinette stitches on each side when knitting your piece. I tried this as well but DAK kept giving me error messages. But it may get messed up too if you try to increase or decrease your pattern.

I sent my carriage back to the seller. They did try it with DAK and they couldn't make it work as well. I may just hand manipulate my lace when I start making my lace sweater.

Please let me know if you find a solution to the problem. Thank you.


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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

You might want to call Helen at Newton's. I know there was problem with the DAK and knitting lace on the Silver Reed/etc. She may have the answer to your problem. She's a registered source for DAK on the Softbyte website. 714-634-9116.


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## mannie (Mar 24, 2013)

That's a good idea, I'll talk to the Softbyte people here in England, thanks. There surely must be a way for this to work.


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