# Random stitches dropping from ribber, need advice



## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I got a Brother KH230 with ribber recently. So far working with the main bed only everything's easy and working fine. Yesterday I did some ribbing and it worked, too, but the tension wasn't right and the ribbing way too loose. So I tried again with a tighter tension and now some needles drop their stitches randomly. The ribbing where it works looks fine at that tighter tension, only it gets holes and ladders all over.

I checked the book over and over again, worked with or without the pressers + needle stoppers + extension rack, it stays the same.

Any ideas how I can achieve a tighter ribbing without those randomly dropping stitches?


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## KarlaHW (Jan 6, 2012)

Lots of weights.
I would go very slowly and observe after each row which stitches drop. Sometimes it helps to pull on the knitted piece while you move the carriage.


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## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

Check the latch on your needles and be sure they are working right. Run the carriages, without yarn, over all the needles on both beds and see if the hooks are standing straight up.


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Another suggestion.....Place your yarn on the floor behind the machine ... This seems to tension the yarn better on the 230.......since there is no adjustment for the mast tension..


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Thank you for all your suggestions, but so far no luck.

I learned about placing the yarn on the floor the trial-and-error-way and you're absolutely correct, it does work better that way. 

I tried going slow and going fast with more or less weights, both gets the same result and so far I could not see when a needle didn't grab the yarn. I'll try tomorrow morning again (it's getting late here), and maybe with a flashlight, too, it might shed some light on the problem . 
I still have to try pulling the fabric down, completely forgot about it.

The needles are acting up sometimes, because the latches are closed on some ribber needles after the carriage passed knitting the main bed stitches. It's very weird, how do they manage that standing upright, I wonder. You'd think gravity would pull the latches down.
I checked and corrected them after each pass of the carriage and before knitting the next row, but there were still dropped stitches. And the needles with the closed latches are not always the ones that drop a stitch on the next pass. seems to be totally random.
That's why I'm so stumped at the moment.


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## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

Good, none of the latches are stuck under the hooks then.
Are any of them harder to pull up than the others? They should all open straight up when the carriage passes over...If the latches are loose and move too much side ways they should be put to the end of the N bed or replaced. 
What rib pattern are you trying to knit, what yarn and gare you using and how much weight are you using? 
Can you post a picture?


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> Hello everyone,
> I got a Brother KH230 with ribber recently. So far working with the main bed only everything's easy and working fine. Yesterday I did some ribbing and it worked, too, but the tension wasn't right and the ribbing way too loose. So I tried again with a tighter tension and now some needles drop their stitches randomly. The ribbing where it works looks fine at that tighter tension, only it gets holes and ladders all over.
> I checked the book over and over again, worked with or without the pressers + needle stoppers + extension rack, it stays the same.
> Any ideas how I can achieve a tighter ribbing without those randomly dropping stitches?


A few more things to check: Check both sponge bars.....Sometimes the main bed will work ok with a not-so-good sponge bar......But when you add in the ribber......You have problems like you are experiencing...
Another cause for your problems can be that the ribber is out of alignment.....Three things to check vertical/horzontal/and spacing between the 2 beds....
I forgot to ask......There is a small adapter (called a 'yarn tension stand' in your manual).....When you use the ribber....you need to place this adapter in the opening(where the mast goes) first...then you put the mast into the adapter.....This angles the mast properly for tensioning when you have the ribber attached...
A few pictures would help...


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## rainbirdoz (Nov 7, 2012)

You say you want to achieve a tighter ribbing, spmI am wondering if the yarn you are using is at the lighter end of the scale for the bulky machine. If that is so, are you using the Fine Knit Bar? This is a long thin piece of plastic the length of the bed of needles that is placed under the main bed needles to lift them so that they knit off correctly when you use a tighter tension. You should use this with yarn that is fine for the gauge of machine. There is one for standard gauge machines and one for the bulky machines - I think they actually come with the ribber rather than with the main bed. Unfortunately, they often get thrown out with the packing! The one for the Brother 230 is most probably pink.

Sheila
Western Australia


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## Rita in Raleigh (Aug 20, 2011)

As mentioned above, sponge bars quickly came to my mind. It is funny but sometimes when the main bed sponge bar is too flat or weak, the stitches on the ribber do not work well. 

A fine knit bar would probably help too.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

You have stated that you got this machine/ribber recently. If it hasn't been used for some time, and has been stored, then it's possible that all it wants is a good clean and oiling. 
The following are good guides on how to do this.
http://static.knittingparadise.com/upload/2012/11/25/1353822465206-spring_clean_part1.pdf
http://www.guild-mach-knit.org.uk/forms/workshops/springclean/Part2.pdf


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Why, oh why does the whole world wants me, when I try to solve my knitting machine problems :-(? 
I finally managed to get a bit of time free to try some of all the helpful suggestions. Thank you all, but so far still no luck.

As for what I had time to try out now:
- Pulling the knitting down didn't work out. As this problem seems to happen mainly to the left of zero (though there's no special needle acting up more than the others in that range), I though I might have distributed the weights unevenly. Seems not to be the case, though.

- I'm trying to make a 1-1 rib with 100% acrilic yarn (alwo Meteor) with a length of 150m/50g for needle size of 3mm or 4mm. The other yarn I tried is Lang Yarns Fantomas Color 75% wool/7% acrilic/18% polyamide with a length of 140m/50g for needle size of 3mm or 3 1/2mm. Both show the same problems.
None of the latches seem to be very tight or very loose, though I'm going to try swapping the needles.
I think the yarn is on the lighter end of the scale for a bulky, but I'm not sure. Can you advice, please? Unfortunately I don't have a Fine Knit Bar, it wasn't part of the machine. I suppose it got already lost by the/a previous owner. I might be able to buy one, have to look for that.

- The sponge bars look ok, I checked them again. I replaced them right after I got the machine (they were of course completely flat, it's an old machine after all).
I still have to check for the ribber alignment, but the adapter for the yarn mast is in place.
I did some cleaning and oiling, but not the full "spring cleaning". Thank you for the links, that's a big, big help. I guess I'll have to find some time for it rather soon. Though it will have to wait until after I finished the dress for my niece or she'll get it when she doesn't need it anymore . I can do without the ribbing at the waist for now, she's six after all, so a little loose around the belly won't hurt. If necessary I just knit the neckband by hand or do a one of the single bed neckbands.

I attached some pictures of the machine, maybe you can see something from it. I'll try to remember taking some of the ribbing in it's sorry state next time. I ripped it out from frustration.

Whew, if I talk too much, please tell me. I'm not a native speaker, so I try to describe when I don't know the proper word (leo.org doesn't know everything).


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## KarlaHW (Jan 6, 2012)

For 1x1 rib setting needs to be on P, not H. From the last picture it seems to me as if the needles are not lined up.


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## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

You're knitting with a light gauge of yarn for the bulky machine, especially 1x1. The bulky was designed to knit best with yarn gauges between 500-900 yards per pound. Too bad you don't have a fine knit bar, that would help. 
Try setting your machine up for full needle rib; all needles in work on both beds, set the ribber to H for Half pitch and tension settings 2/2 or 3/3 to start, adjusting if needed and see if it knits better. Make sure to weight evenly. 
.


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## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

duplicate entry


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## redgem (Oct 27, 2012)

I noticed some of the latches are closed on the ribber needles, make sure they are not stiff in movement they may not be opening and closing properly


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I think what KarlaHW has said could be correct. From the picture I too believe that the ribber isn't set up right. The following might help you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/KNITTING-MACHINES-PART-2-ADJUSTING-A-BROTHER-RIBBER-/10000000006613323/g.html
http://www.needlesofsteel.org.uk/downloads/Anne%20Pearson%20-%20adjusting%20Brother%20chunky%20ribbers.pdf


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## Peanut Tinker (Oct 10, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I got a Brother KH230 with ribber recently. So far working with the main bed only everything's easy and working fine. Yesterday I did some ribbing and it worked, too, but the tension wasn't right and the ribbing way too loose. So I tried again with a tighter tension and now some needles drop their stitches randomly. The ribbing where it works looks fine at that tighter tension, only it gets holes and ladders all over.
> 
> ...


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Pretty sure it's the ribber 'height adjustment' that is off.....specifically the left side is lower than the right......The magnet on the carriage is not opening the latches on the left side.....because they are not at the proper height to do so...
I will PM you.....as I have pdf specific for 230 ribber ....


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Damn, I'm so frustrated right now.
I really hoped adjusting the ribber would help. It looked like it did for the first three rows and then the dropping started again, only now over the whole section I had threaded :-(.
Obviously the ribber wasn't properly aligned, but it looks like it wasn't the cause for the dropping. I suppose it falls under the category of "operator error". I still have something wrong in the setup or I'm doing something wrong. Now if only I could find out what :hunf:.

Swapping the needles will be next, whenever I find the time for it.

Sorry, just needed to vent. Thank you all for your patience with me.


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## Peanut Tinker (Oct 10, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> Damn, I'm so frustrated right now.
> I really hoped adjusting the ribber would help. It looked like it did for the first three rows and then the dropping started again, only now over the whole section I had threaded :-(.
> Obviously the ribber wasn't properly aligned, but it looks like it wasn't the cause for the dropping. I suppose it falls under the category of "operator error". I still have something wrong in the setup or I'm doing something wrong. Now if only I could find out what :hunf:.
> 
> ...


Don't lose hope- if it worked for the first 3 rows- then maybe something is loose and has allowed the ribber to slip down a bit as you knit? Or is it possible that the piece that connects the rib and knit carriages is not staying in place?


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## KarlaHW (Jan 6, 2012)

Linuxgirl,
start again at the beginning. With the loose tension no stitches were falling. You do the 3 circular rows, then 1x1 ribbing? Take some more pictures for us to see, loose stitches. What was the tension setting? Then gradually increase tension (lower number), take another picture with the falling stitches. 
I am sure somebody will figure out what is wrong.


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Thank you all for your support. I won't give up that easily. I just need to find enough time to tinker around with it. Unfortunately my next holidays are a few months off , so I only have the weekends.
But with all the help here, I WILL get that ribber working in the end. Might just take a while.
I'll try the quicker things like the full needle rib or some thicker yarn and increasing tension with the thinner yarn next and then swapping the needles.
Won't be tonight though, my kitty needs to see the doc for her cold (pity that doesn't vanish on its own like for us humans).


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## rhomin (Oct 8, 2013)

Linuxgirl I am only new to machine knitting too and found it hard to get my ribber right. What am I talking about - I still find it hard  My first efforts were a lot like yours and I pestered my OH to help me out as he's a toolmaker by trade so reading diagrams and setting up machines is what he does. Turned out I hadn't the machine clamped down correctly. I was really at the end of my patience with it and this has helped enormously. I still continue to make every mistake possible but I am loving learning all the new skills and will continue going. I can hear the same frustration in your post that I felt, so I hope with help from all the experienced folk on here, you and I can get on top of the ribber problems eventually.


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

rhomin said:


> Linuxgirl I am only new to machine knitting too and found it hard to get my ribber right. What am I talking about - I still find it hard  My first efforts were a lot like yours and I pestered my OH to help me out as he's a toolmaker by trade so reading diagrams and setting up machines is what he does. Turned out I hadn't the machine clamped down correctly. I was really at the end of my patience with it and this has helped enormously. I still continue to make every mistake possible but I am loving learning all the new skills and will continue going. I can hear the same frustration in your post that I felt, so I hope with help from all the experienced folk on here, you and I can get on top of the ribber problems eventually.


Thank you for your support. We will win in the end, I know that.
It's really helpful to know I'm not alone in this.


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## rhomin (Oct 8, 2013)

We will overcome, we will overcome........ are you singing along???


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Yes!


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## rhomin (Oct 8, 2013)




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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

Did you double check your ribber adjustment? If you place your pusher between the two beds - did it fall through or stay on the gate pegs? Are your needles in correct alignment?


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Oh dear, I think I found my problem. But if it is solvable ...
After checking the ribber adjustment thoroughly today and fighting with the tutorials (damn, I wish I was a native speaker) and in the end luckily finding a German tutorial, which finally made me get the part about the needles of one bed and the sinkers of the other bed having to be about 1mm apart, I realised it.

*The main bed is bent!* :-(

The needles in the middle of the beds are about 2mm apart when the edge needles are 1mm apart. No wonder the stitches were dropping like crazy. It was sheer luck that some needles on the ribber caught stitches at all.

You, my dear helpers, were indeed right about the adjustment of the ribber, only it can't be correctly adjusted. As I can't really break anything more than it already is, I'll try to bend it back into shape. I put it on the floor now and put my DH's rather heavy toolbox right into the middle. Now I'll let this sit for a time and check on it tomorrow. Eventually I'll force it a bit more then. Can't get worse than it is after all.

What a dilemma. I don't think the vendor knew about it, you really only see it when you put a CD in between. And she certainly wasn't the one knitting with it, as she put quite a few wrong parts into the box at first, so I suppose she inherited it.
At least DH is really sweet about my trouble and promised we'd get a new main bed, it this one can't be saved.

I only hope you have better luck, rhomin :| .


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Linuxgirl said:


> Oh dear, I think I found my problem. But if it is solvable ...
> After checking the ribber adjustment thoroughly today and fighting with the tutorials (damn, I wish I was a native speaker) and in the end luckily finding a German tutorial, which finally made me get the part about the needles of one bed and the sinkers of the other bed having to be about 1mm apart, I realised it.
> 
> *The main bed is bent!* :-(
> ...


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> Linuxgirl said:
> 
> 
> > Oh dear, I think I found my problem. But if it is solvable ...
> ...


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

> Linuxgirl......There is a warping that can take place on a ribber...and occurs in the center.....Now..I have heard it can be because the operator is leaning on the ribber.....I think the more common reason is that the ribber has no support in the center.....and due to its weight and gravity ....it is prone to sagging or warping in the middle over time....
> I have a ribber on my standard gauge machine that presented me with this same problem as you are experiencing.....This is how I dealt with it......and it works fine: Remount your ribber.....but set your spacing adjustment at both ends so it is 0.5mm instead of 1mm (you might even get away with 0.75mm).....This will bring the center up where it needs to be.......Check the spacing at intervals along the ribber.....At best ....you'll be able to knit normally on the whole bed(my standard does).. ..At worse case scenario....it may not knit properly at the very ends of the bed.......If the latter is the case.....Then making an afghan may be a problem.....but making most clothing items won't be....


Thank you, Tallie9. I'll try that. I'm pretty positive about the bend in the main bed, as I tried putting it on an even surface and stuck my fingers under and it's much easier to do this on the center than on the edges. And measuring the ribber needles against the main bed sinkers showed absolutely even distance about the whole bed. 
Nevertheless, if that helps I won't bother which bed is bent :wink:. After all Afghans don't need to be stretchy, so if purling is necessary, I can just convert the stitches.


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

IT WORKED!!!! Yippeeeh!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone! I just did the happy dance right now.

Putting some pressure on the main bed bend it back just enough to work out (yes, I knelt on the damn thing and tugged besides leaving it under the toolbox for the night).
And big thank you for your last advice, Tallie9. I did use that, as the main bed is of course still a little warped. Now the center needles are a little bit more than 1 mm apart and the edge needles a little bit less. 

I'm so glad I don't have to shell out for a new main bed even if hubby was willing to help with it.

And this is the result everyone here helped accomplish. Looks great. Good thing I didn't get much further with the dress for my niece  , now it will get ribbing after all.


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Stupid question maybe, but does a topic get the label "solved" if a solution to a problem has been found? 
I didn't see anything about it in the help section and by searching for it?


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> IT WORKED!!!! Yippeeeh!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
> Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone! I just did the happy dance right now.
> Putting some pressure on the main bed bend it back just enough to work out (yes, I knelt on the damn thing and tugged besides leaving it under the toolbox for the night).
> And big thank you for your last advice, Tallie9. I did use that, as the main bed is of course still a little warped. Now the center needles are a little bit more than 1 mm apart and the edge needles a little bit less.
> ...


Linuxgirl.........Bitte sehr!...(is that correct?....My German is more than a little rusty)........Well.....your persistence payed off!.....Now you get to have fun playing with your machine.......Enjoy!


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## Tallie9 (Jul 24, 2012)

Linuxgirl said:


> Stupid question maybe, but does a topic get the label "solved" if a solution to a problem has been found?
> I didn't see anything about it in the help section and by searching for it?


No such "solve" tag exits......but it sounds like a good idea....


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Tallie9 said:


> Linuxgirl.........Bitte sehr!...(is that correct?....My German is more than a little rusty)........Well.....your persistence payed off!.....Now you get to have fun playing with your machine.......Enjoy!


Yes, "Bitte sehr" is absolutely correct. My compliments, there are not many people who try to tackle German. It's a damn complicated language, as I've realised when I tried to explain some of the grammar to a french woman.

Oh, and I started right away on having fun. The front of my niece's dress just jumped of the needles and I plan on finishing the back today, too. The ribbing worked great. If I manage, then tomorrow the sleeves will follow.
I'm so happy right now (which will probably change when I have to sew everything together :wink: ).


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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

Once you get it unbent. Remember when you are not using your machine, put your ribber in the up position or take it off and place it on a level surface.


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## helenr1 (Jan 7, 2013)

Edit:

PS .... YIKES! ... I type so slowly and got interrupted, so you got it fixed before I hit "send". I'm sooooo happy for you too. 


All good suggestions - I can only add a little personal experience to it and hope it helps.

Rather than beds tilting (using the special ribber table clamps), it looks like the beds might be at a 90 degree angle.... main bed flat, ribber straight down.

I had stitch drop and gate peg tangling problems with that flat position. Stitches between the beds would get caught on "back of the ribber" screws. Tilting the beds made more room between them for the well weighted knitting piece. 

As for the close knit bar, maybe it is still in the cast on comb slot of the foam ribber packing mold - easy to miss there.

Sometimes it's the simple things that cause trouble. Fixing is usually much easier than finding the cause.


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## rhomin (Oct 8, 2013)

I am not sure which bit should measure 1mm. Is it the gap between both sets of gate pegs? Also how do you check using a CD? I am trying to make a ribbed button band with vertical buttonholes on a Brother standard gage with ribber. So much to remember and to add to the complications I am using my knit leader. After many attempts I have got the process into my head but haven't achieved it yet as I am still dropping stitches along the way and also have had some stitches jumping over to hang themselves on the gate pegs. I added an extra claw weight and it has helped a little but not cured it. This is also the first item I have knitted using an oiled Shetland wool so don't know if the yarn type has any effect on how the stitches behave. Any advise would be welcome.


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## Linuxgirl (May 25, 2013)

Hello rhomin,

no, not the gate pegs of both beds. It's the gap between the gate pegs of one bed and the needles in HP on the other bed, e. g. the gate pegs of the ribber and the needles of the main bed. That was exactly the point where I stumbled around, too.

If I'm not clear, tell me. I'll send you my German tutorial. The pictures in there are all you need to complete the instructions in the tutorial linked to in this thread.
If anyone else is interested, I'll try to find that site again and put up a link here.


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

Put your ribber up. Bring some main bed needles to holding position. Slide your CD UNDER the needles in HP - if it slides in and out too easily your ribber needs to be adjusted up - if too tight a fit - ribber slightly lower


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## rhomin (Oct 8, 2013)

Thank you for the clear explanations ladies. I will try that out tomorrow. Was working today and had pc problems this evening so have resorted to the tablet and typing is a pain!


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