# Smoking and Obamacare #11



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> When you post items such as this, it doesn't weigh in your favor. I tend to discount posts such as this because they are clouded with personal negativity rather objective thought. Not worthy of discussion at all.


I know. The retreads make the old conservatives seem almost like founts of wisdom in comparison. So often I disagree with what they say, but at least they usually have some sources to quote.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.
> 
> My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!


Hmmm....maybe you should consider moving to another country so that you may be happier. Apparently, you don't like the USA.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> As are we all........


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You think it works for you. Are you admitting it doesn't?



Bydie said:


> REPEAT- when logic fails, resort to name calling!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should seek counsel since you are so angry with the United States military and 'grew up' in the military. Veterans would be appalled to hear what you think of them after they fought for your freedoms. I know first hand. Again, leave the USA and go where you believe it is better and where you can support and speak words of gratitude for your country and its beliefs instead of against it.


Yeah, no, some would not as there are some that actually feel the same way Peacegoddess and many others do about the military engagements that had nothing to do with freedom.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?


No.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> No I do not know for sure, but from the comments you post I do not think you read anything remotely progressive. However if you do, then share. I enjoy surprises. I have read that fictional book called the Bible


Oh so if I do not read what you believe is "progressive" you make the judgement that I not enlightened? Should I judge you if you do not read books written by Conservatives? I am positive you read those with such an open mind. So stop judging people that do not enjoy all that new age stuff. I grew up, and took my flower power posters off my wall when I left 2nd grade.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> You mean, kinda like after Hurricane Sandy?????


Look in another direction - wasn't Obama even though many would like it to be. Two republican senators from Oklahoma voted against giving additional aid to the victims of Sandy. What do you want to be they will ask for federal aid now?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

By definition, the world can only be at peace without war. Nasty twists to try to confuse a point. Give it up. We're too smart for you.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
> 
> Explain to me why America was attacked in New York on Sept 11th, how the US could have avoided going to war for a peaceful outcome, and who is to blame for the military having to defend the USA?
> 
> ...


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Weird post


So agree. I don't mind posts that have some intellectual points but these don't qualify. Reminds me of people who have no control in their lives so they come on-line to try to have some. Sad really.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is that why you guys are so bitter.....because the election is over and you lost?


No we are upset to see the present administartion lie to the the people of this country. To keep people around him that should have been fired or brought to trial for what they have done. But you seem to walk around it all and avoid what has been done then to look at it for what it is. An injustice to the American people he is no better then Richard Nixon, and should recieve the same as Nixon did.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh so if I do not read what you believe is "progressive" you make the judgement that I not enlightened? Should I judge you if you do not read books written by Conservatives? I am positive you read those with such an open mind. So stop judging people that do not enjoy all that new age stuff. I grew up, and took my flower power posters off my wall when I left 2nd grade.


A grown up whose mind stopped developing at the tender age of seven. That explains a lot.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.
> 
> Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


Why would you post this? Why the need to post something petty and snarky? I would suspect that you are above this yet you resort to this type of posting? And don't give me the "they did it first" because that is so very weak. Post with integrity please.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
> 
> Explain to me why America was attacked in New York on Sept 11th, how the US could have avoided going to war for a peaceful outcome, and who is to blame for the military having to defend the USA?
> 
> ...


Would you please answer the last question and explain how you arrived at your answer? To answer your entire post would take pages so let's break it down. You start please since you posed the question. Thank you.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EVERY one of the service members in the US military are willing to risk his life for what they believe in and do it for all Americans.
> 
> Perhaps you can explain that to the "Peace" goddess.


Nope not so - check the suicide rate.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Please explain how fighting a war in Iraq protected freedoms for Americans. What was the purpose of that war?


One word...wait for it.....OIL!!!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> So you think if we starve ourselves so that we understand the act of suffering is a sign of a healthy mind? People are starving and suffering not by choice. What good are you to the world if you purposely starve yourself and die? If their cause/goal is not accomplished do they stop eating and then die? Or do they give in, eat and admit defeat?


Yes, they are yet some want to cut welfare. How very sad!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Oh so if I do not read what you believe is "progressive" you make the judgement that I not enlightened? Should I judge you if you do not read books written by Conservatives? I am positive you read those with such an open mind. So stop judging people that do not enjoy all that new age stuff. I grew up, and took my flower power posters off my wall when I left 2nd grade.


You put words in my mouth...did I say you are not enlightened? I asked if you go outside your comfort zone, you did not like that phrase, so I used the word progressive, which is not a new age word it has been around for a very long time. You always avoid answering I do read books by conservatives, the mere act of reading them represents an opening of the mind. Anita Bryant's writings were some of the early stuff, on to Colin Powell and Pat Robertson.

How sad not to have pictures of flowers....not even original art that is botanical in subject?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Haven't we met before?


Oh yes, she has been around and around and around!!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No we are upset to see the present administartion lie to the the people of this country. To keep people around him that should have been fired or brought to trial for what they have done. But you seem to walk around it all and avoid what has been done then to look at it for what it is. An injustice to the American people he is no better then Richard Nixon, and should recieve the same as Nixon did.


Cry me a river. Or better yet, start acting like an adult.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yay Yarnie you win the prize! :thumbup:


Cb - you are better than this. You truly are.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Many young men and women I speak to that are considering enlisting in the military do it because they think they will get an education paid for and believe their job prospects are dim (which is true). Few mention protecting America or freedom. I talk to numerous teens and young adults in my guise of Peacegoddess.


I can attest to this - my nephew, my son-in-law and a personal friend. Just for the education. The idealism projected by the military is not attractive to all. However, this is just 3 examples.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh yes, she has been around and around and around!!!


After so many revolutions seems to be wobbling on the axle...back to the shop for another patch.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Is that why you guys are so bitter.....because the election is over and you lost?


My thoughts too - bitter, unhappy, angry, no control in their lives...and I suspect other issues as well. When people stoop to demeaning and insulting posts, it is an indication of a behavioral issue.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> You think it works for you. Are you admitting it doesn't?


at this point, what difference does it make??????


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> No we are upset to see the present administartion lie to the the people of this country. To keep people around him that should have been fired or brought to trial for what they have done. But you seem to walk around it all and avoid what has been done then to look at it for what it is. An injustice to the American people he is no better then Richard Nixon, and should recieve the same as Nixon did.


Name an administration that did not lie or stretch the truth, please. Otherwise I think your argument is invalid.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> at this point, what difference does it make??????


BINGO!!! You got it...it is what it is.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> at this point, what difference does it make??????


For you, not much...your head's tucked permanently beneath your wing.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Cry me a river. Or better yet, start acting like an adult.


I know Susan and you really should try to act like an adult, but it is beyond your ability to even think like one.

But then I would not expect you to even understand that.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I know Susan and you really should try to act like an adult, but it is beyond your ability to even think like one.
> 
> But then I would not expect you to even understand that.


Your post and comment is not helpful but reflective of what you are accusing Susan of being. It would be helpful if you have something constructive to post. Thank you.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lerner, former head IRS service,and now head of the ACA is now pleading the 5th amendment. Why would one have to plead that if they were telling the truth? Why has Obama allowed this women to continue working. She should have been fired, not bump up to a higher job. To know that she will be in charge of ACA and what she has done. Where is the logic in that.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

******Indicate answers to your questions. 
Would you answer your own questions?



Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?

*If WWII had been about helping Jews and others oppressed by Germany the US would have been in it from the beginning. Pearl Harbor might have been avoided by diplomatic means there is research that states the U S knew about the Japanese military build up. 

Explain to me why America was attacked in New York on Sept 11th, how the US could have avoided going to war for a peaceful outcome, and who is to blame for the military having to defend the USA?

*You will not like this answer, but then what is new here? Our imperialistic foreign policies have created many enemies...do I think their acts are justified? No, but we make many enemies. Same answer for Boston

Explain why the Boston Marathon attack happened who was responsible for it happening and what your group felt was the proper way to apprehend those responsible and the punishment for same? 

*I think the police did their job by finding the bombers. By the way the Boston police and firefighters and rescue people are all union members. Just a little factoid. 

*Should the surviving bomber have received Miranda rights of course he should have Miranda rights and should he be tried in a military tribunal or Federal Criminal Court? 

*I don't know, I do not think military court has jurisdiction..

I believe your group does not wish to be part of the United Nations as that entity takes part in the internal affairs and decisions of other nations, correct? Wrong assumption. United Nations is a large entity that works on many front for peace and social justice. Do I approve of everything done by the UN no....do you?

Please tell me how those killed and attacked received justice as the victims of the violence against Americans in Benghazi especially after Hillary and President Obama swept the murders under the rug and Hillary said, "What does it matter"? 

*Not a supporter of either Obama or Hillary and do not think all is known about what happened or that anyone necessarily received justice.

Does your group believe Obama is supportive of your groups' beliefs? I.E. sending in drones when trying to end or avoid war?

*No there are numerous protests against drones, both domestically and international.

I could go on and on but won't. Please enlighten the public on how your group is effective or at best, has had an impact or success in furthering their mission as compared to the military structure you despise. 

*I think each and every day is a struggle for peace. It may never result in ultimate world peace but I, nor other peace activists, quail at the undertaking. 

Do you believe a world can be at peace without war?

*Yes.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Your post and comment is not helpful but reflective of what you are accusing Susan of being. It would be helpful if you have something constructive to post. Thank you.


then you also should tell Susan the same thing. As she has not had a constructive post on here at all tonight except to post nasty comments.

THANK YOU


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Lerner, former head IRS service,and now head of the ACA is now pleading the 5th amendment. Why would one have to plead that if they were telling the truth? Why has Obama allowed this women to continue working. She should have been fired, not bump up to a higher job. To know that she will be in charge of ACA and what she has done. Where is the logic in that.


So invoking the rights guaranteed us under the Constitution is an admission of guilt?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Bratty, what happened? Did you have to assume a new idientity?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Name an administration that did not lie or stretch the truth, please. Otherwise I think your argument is invalid.


I just did Richard Nixon, and as to other President I am sure there are more. But I put our President in the same company as Nixon. As they both want to cover everything done up, and blame others for what they have done.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> So invoking the rights guaranteed us under the Constitution is an admission of guilt?


Yes it is, when one is telling the truth they need not fear telling what they know. 
If she has something to hide then it would seem she does not want it to be known. She also may not want to tell who really is behind what happen in the IRS. 
I have yet to see a person who is innocent want to use the fifth . If you do please show me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes it is, when one is telling the truth they need not fear telling what they know.
> If she has something to hide then it would seem she does not want it to be known. She also may not want to tell who really is behind what happen in the IRS.
> I have yet to see a person who is innocent want to use the fifth . If you do please show me.


By this reasoning any innocent person arrested should NOT invoke their Miranda rights or hire a lawyer--to do so is an admission of guilt. An illogical and very dangerous way of viewing things.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> By this reasoning any innocent person arrested should NOT invoke their Miranda rights or hire a lawyer--to do so is an admission of guilt. An illogical and very dangerous way of viewing things.


as a non-American, I have to admit that my kowledge of these rights is based on books, TV, movies etc. My understanding is that Miranda rights means a person needs to be informed of all of their legal rights and that the 5th Amendment means that a person is not required to provide information that could incriminate them. Would you please clarify what these rights are and how they are applied.
Thanks


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Maybe you should stop saying it, because you have no idea what I read. And please your redundant comment about going outside my comfort zone is annoying. If you have a need to be uncomfortable, knock your self out, I don't need to add drama to my life.
> 
> In short,
> psalm 46:11


Oh, my gosh! SE is quoting the Bible! I am shocked! She doesn't come across as a loving Christian at all, does she?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Just read that my idol, Mia Love is making another run for Congress. Hip Hip Hurray!!!!


You should reach up for an idol, not down!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.
> 
> Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


I guess the house falling in OZ didn't do the trick. You sure are a cheap form of entertainment though. I bet you come by it naturally don't you. Don't strain yourself, I don't want you to hurt yourself.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh so if I do not read what you believe is "progressive" you make the judgement that I not enlightened? Should I judge you if you do not read books written by Conservatives? I am positive you read those with such an open mind. So stop judging people that do not enjoy all that new age stuff. I grew up, and took my flower power posters off my wall when I left 2nd grade.


Too bad!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dream on.


Damemary that's all offherrocker has is her dreams and hallucinations. I guess she dropped to much acid back in the 60's and you see the results now, not a pretty sight. I guess she has a rhinestone crown she wears and she thinks she is royalty. Bydie has the same problem. Fortunately, she married an admiral and now they live off the government.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I just did Richard Nixon, and as to other President I am sure there are more. But I put our President in the same company as Nixon. As they both want to cover everything done up, and blame others for what they have done.


How would you rate the Bush-Cheney administration--you know the ones who did nothing with intel received before the 9/11 strike? Not only did they ignore intel that could have saved 3,000 lives, but they were responsible for the deaths of many more military personnel as well as many citizens of Iraq, where they dragged the US into a meaningless war. Where was your criticism then?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.

Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


Is it Bydie or Byrdie? Personally I prefer the latter.

susanmos2000

susan offherrocker doen't even know it's Bydie. It's all that experimentation she used to do and she thinks I don't know which end is up. She is a stitch. :lol:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I just did Richard Nixon, and as to other President I am sure there are more. But I put our President in the same company as Nixon. As they both want to cover everything done up, and blame others for what they have done.


You are sure there are more...do you think some may be Republicans? Do you think this type of behavior may cross party lines?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bratty, what happened? Did you have to assume a new idientity?


Why would you ask that?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Fortunately, she married an admiral and now they live off the government.


Really? That is quite interesting.................


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> then you also should tell Susan the same thing. As she has not had a constructive post on here at all tonight except to post nasty comments.
> 
> THANK YOU


And on to Susan...............


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.

Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


REPEAT- when logic fails, resort to name calling!

The only time a Marine in full uniform is to hold an umbrella is when he's using it to protect "a lady". I guess this fits.


You would know Byrdie, you do it so well. You are just as amusing as offherrocker. How's living off the taxpayers working for you Byrdie? What was your job or were you little susie homemaker back in your heyday?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Why would you ask that?


Who knows?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Why would you ask that?


Who knows?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> as a non-American, I have to admit that my kowledge of these rights is based on books, TV, movies etc. My understanding is that Miranda rights means a person needs to be informed of all of their legal rights and that the 5th Amendment means that a person is not required to provide information that could incriminate them. Would you please clarify what these rights are and how they are applied.
> Thanks


As I understand it, since the Constitution was written all Americans have had the right not to say anything that would incriminate themselves (the Fifth Amendment). That means if you're arrested you can't be forced to say anything and can choose to sit in court with your lip zipped while the prosecutor tries to build his or her case against you.

But until the 1960s a lot of people didn't realize this and thought they had to answer each and every one of the policeman's/lawyer's/prosecutor's questions, even when it meant disclosing evidence that might later be used against them. The Miranda vs. Arizona case, heard by the Supreme Court in 1966, made it the law that suspects have to be reminded of their right to keep quiet. The right had been there for almost two hundred years--Miranda requires arresting officers to remind suspects who may not know or be too flustered to remember.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Here's question for the progs out there. 

IF being a dem, prog, liberal, socialist, marxist, communist is soooooooo great, why is it that all the "blue" states run by dems, progs, libs, socialists, marxist, communishts. are the ones going down the crapper???????

Answers please.....help me out here.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Another question for the progs:

How long does it take you all to "caucus" to come up with your communal pathetic slurs before you pounce into our midst???


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> You are sure there are more...do you think some may be Republicans? Do you think this type of behavior may cross party lines?


 Nixon was a Republican so that would mean a yes to your answer. As I compared President Obama to Richard Nixon you could say both party's. As I remember Nixon was call tricky Dicky.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BTW, one of the jobs of a Christian is to battle against evil. The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Another question for the progs:
> 
> How long does it take you all to "caucus" to come up with your communal pathetic slurs before you pounce into our midst???


Not long at all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Well, well, well. Obozo's IRS STOOGE Lois Lerner has pleaded....NO! NOT the 5th? Let's see....who does that? Ummm....Gangsters like Capone, Luciano and oh yeah, Eric HOLDER!!!! You're in good company there LOIS! Congratulations, you sweetheart you!
> 
> BTW, did you know that 1/3 of ALL the BIPARTISAN sub-committees in Congress are involved in investigating wrong doing by Obozo and his Chicago hoodlum cronies? Of course, we all know that he had NOTHING to do with any of it and KNOWS nothing about it, right?????? I think we should start calling him KnowNoBozo.


Oh are you ever needed on here! I had to stop posting - couldn't get anywhere. Good luck - I hope you and the rest of the team do better than I could!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

On to another subject.

The lawsuits being entered against the IRS are being "untethered". And guess who's in on the fun. THE ACLU! It's gotta be REALLY bad!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
> 
> Why do you think the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? It had nothing to do with freedom but with an economic issue.
> 
> ...


Yep!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Not long at all.


It's evident. It's the usual repetitive junk.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> As I understand it, since the Constitution was written all Americans have had the right not to say anything that would incriminate themselves (the Fifth Amendment). That means if you're arrested you can't be forced to say anything and can choose to sit in court with your lip zipped while the prosecutor tries to build his or her case against you.
> 
> But until the 1960s a lot of people didn't realize this and thought they had to answer each and every one of the policeman's/lawyer's/prosecutor's questions, even when it meant disclosing evidence that might later be used against them. The Miranda vs. Arizona case, heard by the Supreme Court in 1966, made it the law that suspects have to be reminded of their right to keep quiet. The right had been there for almost two hundred years--Miranda requires arresting officers to remind suspects who may not know or be too flustered to remember.


How does that apply to the fifth amendment? You did not answer West Coast Kitty's question.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth; that is MY freedom of speech on which you are trampling. I didn't post you were un-educated; re-read my post.
> 
> I assumed you knew where your rights come from and it didn't need to be stated. However, had Americans not fight for YOUR rights, you would NOT have the right to protest your beliefs.
> 
> The US military is not criminal and defends all Americans, you included.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Here's question for the progs out there.
> 
> IF being a dem, prog, liberal, socialist, marxist, communist is soooooooo great, why is it that all the "blue" states run by dems, progs, libs, socialists, marxist, communishts. are the ones going down the crapper???????
> 
> Answers please.....help me out here.


Ah, someone's returned to flip us the Byrd, so to speak...

Really, does anyone want to debate with someone who uses this kind of language? I sure don't.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Here's question for the progs out there.
> 
> IF being a dem, prog, liberal, socialist, marxist, communist is soooooooo great, why is it that all the "blue" states run by dems, progs, libs, socialists, marxist, communishts. are the ones going down the crapper???????
> 
> Answers please.....help me out here.


Why don't you provide the answer since you apparently have the knowledge and please provide sources. This is a rather large generalization.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh are you ever needed on here! I had to stop posting - couldn't get anywhere. Good luck - I hope you and the rest of the team do better than I could!


Bonnie
You aren't quite vicious enough like these newest Christians who aren't really new at all--or even Christian. You should be thankful that you don't have that "go for the jugular" mentality.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Another question for the progs:
> 
> How long does it take you all to "caucus" to come up with your communal pathetic slurs before you pounce into our midst???


Your midst??? LMAO!!! About the same time it takes yours.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Tap...tap....tap...tap....waiting!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie wrote:
<Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment>

SO glad I have my Depends on. Snort!

Byrdie you may want to take care of that other personal hygiene problem you have. Feeling untethered is really the least of your problems. Oh and that awful snort of yours. I thought you had surgery to correct that or is it considered cosmetic?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Nixon was a Republican so that would mean a yes to your answer. As I compared President Obama to Richard Nixon you could say both party's. As I remember Nixon was call tricky Dicky.


What is your point because you really did not address my comment.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BTW, one of the jobs of a Christian is to battle against evil. The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level.


Sounds like someone's bucking for a Section Eight.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ah, someone's returned to flip us the Byrd, so to speak...
> 
> Really, does anyone want to debate with someone who uses this kind of language? I sure don't.


Oh pardon me....for offending your sensibilities...perhaps I should have said "bidet".


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> On to another subject.
> 
> The lawsuits being entered against the IRS are being "untethered". And guess who's in on the fun. THE ACLU! It's gotta be REALLY bad!


I wondered where the ACLU was. This must be killing them.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds like someone's bucking for a Section Eight.


Blaaaahaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa! You're a riot!!!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Tap...tap....tap...tap....waiting!


My aren't you the clever girl. You aren't at the bar any more Byrdie. I'm sure you want a tap beer but you are on KP now and you are just making yourself look silly. Maybe you need to sleep it off. You might want to keep one eye open as offherrocker may pull off a coup and dethrone you.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

tap...tap...tap...still waiting!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Whoa! Where'd they go? Did they have to run back to Momma for some more "junk" food???


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> tap...tap...tap...still waiting!


I'm still wondering why the two of you felt the need to come back to visit. You must just love the company here! You sure all high-tailed it around election time last fall!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Here's question for the progs out there.
> 
> IF being a dem, prog, liberal, socialist, marxist, communist is soooooooo great, why is it that all the "blue" states run by dems, progs, libs, socialists, marxist, communishts. are the ones going down the crapper???????
> 
> Answers please.....help me out here.


I do not think my state is gong down the "crapper", even though I do not think it is as well off as it was when Pat Brown was governor. Many states go back and forth between dem and rep governors and control of legislative house control. As far as I know, no state has ever had a majority of progressives in their legislative houses or had progressive governors. To put democrats and socialists in the same political box is not an accurate portrayal of progressives or democrats.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Tap...tap....tap...tap....waiting!


For????????


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Isn't it wonderful to see how much information that a certain lady puts out everyday and her answers wow. I am impress. Nothing but nasty words.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Isn't it wonderful to see how much information that a certain lady puts out everyday and her answers wow. I am impress. Nothing but nasty words.


Are you speaking of Bydie?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Here's question for the progs out there.
> 
> IF being a dem, prog, liberal, socialist, marxist, communist is soooooooo great, why is it that all the "blue" states run by dems, progs, libs, socialists, marxist, communishts. are the ones going down the crapper???????
> 
> Answers please.....help me out here.


Well, my state is doing just fine. Democratic Gov, 2 Dem senators, and one birdbrain of a Tea Bagger for a congresswoman. 
Sorry, I don't have a horror story to tell you, but it is what it is.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> How does that apply to the fifth amendment? You did not answer West Coast Kitty's question.


What is your answer?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> tap...tap...tap...still waiting!


Repetitive junk


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> tap...tap...tap...still waiting!


Reminds me off Off2knit's tick-tocking cuckoo clock just before the last Benghazi hearing. Guess there's room for one more little byrd in there.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's evident. It's the usual repetitive junk.


Yes, you are right. The righties just keep whining and whining about Obama. We have another 3 years of it coming. Oh Joy!
Bazinga!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What is your point because you really did not address my comment.


How did I not anwer your question you ask if I thought it want on both side yes Nixon Republican, Obama Dem, yes both sides But these two are the worst of them. Blame others when hand caught in the cookie jar.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Isn't it wonderful to see how much information that a certain lady puts out everyday and her answers wow. I am impress. Nothing but nasty words.


Are you referring to someone in particular? It would be helpful if you would be specific so the person you target/mention could respond in kind. Otherwise, this is a form of bullying and I'm fairly sure you would not resort to that type of behavior.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> How did I not anwer your question you ask if I thought it want on both side yes Nixon Republican, Obama Dem, yes both sides But these two are the worst of them. Blame others when hand caught in the cookie jar.


Because I asked for an example of others besides the two you mentioned. That is why.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's evident. It's the usual repetitive junk.


Zing!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Bonnie
> You aren't quite vicious enough like these newest Christians who aren't really new at all--or even Christian. You should be thankful that you don't have that "go for the jugular" mentality.


Thanks? You're right - I'm a softie. Just one nice comment like yours and I'm mush. This is no place for me.

Besides, Yarnie made me laugh so hard I've lost all my mean!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Isn't it wonderful to see how much information that a certain lady puts out everyday and her answers wow. I am impress. Nothing but nasty words.


You got that right yarnie. Byrdie and offherrocker sure do have nasty mouths and to think they actually eat with those things. I think Byrdie probably just snorts her food through her nose so either way it is kind of disgusting. Poor things they act like a pair of baboons. Oh my I wish they would cover up those red rumps. I thought Byrdie said she had on depends. They must have fallen off and she didn't notice. What a shame.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Oh pardon me....for offending your sensibilities...perhaps I should have said "bidet".


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You got that right yarnie. Byrdie and offherrocker sure do have nasty mouths and to think they actually eat with those things. I think Byrdie probably just snorts her food through her nose so either way it is kind of disgusting. Poor things they act like a pair of baboons. Oh my I wish they would cover up those red rumps. I thought Byrdie said she had on depends. They must have fallen off and she didn't notice. What a shame.


 Why can't we disagree with out being ugly?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You got that right yarnie. Byrdie and offherrocker sure do have nasty mouths and to think they actually eat with those things. I think Byrdie probably just snorts her food through her nose so either way it is kind of disgusting. Poor things they act like a pair of baboons. Oh my I wish they would cover up those red rumps. I thought Byrdie said she had on depends. They must have fallen off and she didn't notice. What a shame.


Come on - is potty humor the best you can do? You're slipping, Cheeky B.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Zing!


Well, I am going to leave you all since it's obvious not one of the progs has an intelligent response to my question. Night friends.

And Night, Night all you darling little progs. Sleep tight and don't let your consciences bite! XO


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You got that right yarnie. Byrdie and offherrocker sure do have nasty mouths and to think they actually eat with those things. I think Byrdie probably just snorts her food through her nose so either way it is kind of disgusting. Poor things they act like a pair of baboons. Oh my I wish they would cover up those red rumps. I thought Byrdie said she had on depends. They must have fallen off and she didn't notice. What a shame.


You are so right, how could I have ever doubted your wisdom.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I'm going off to knit . . . . Oh-oh. Did I use the SE's name in vain?
Later


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Because I asked for an example of others besides the two you mentioned. That is why.


How about we do it this way you tell me yours first as I have already given two examples.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why can't we disagree with out being ugly?


I truly believe we can, CB!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BOO :~0


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> tap...tap...tap...still waiting!


Byrdie, go sleep it off you are looking so silly. You just need to rest that brain. I'm sure it isn't used to having to think to hard so you don't want to have a blowout or something. Conserve the brain cells you have. Remember your mind is a terrible thing to waste and yours is only running on one cylinder as it is. Pace yourself. You just can't keep up anymore.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Come on - is potty humor the best you can do? You're slipping, Cheeky B.


I think it's pretty funny--there's simply no other way to respond to all the muck KP "newest" member has been slinging around all evening.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Well, I am going to leave you all since it's obvious not one of the progs has an intelligent response to my question. Night friends.
> 
> And Night, Night all you darling little progs. Sleep tight and don't let your consciences bite! XO


That's really not helpful to the dialogue. It's rather condescending. I hope that was not your intention.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds like someone's bucking for a Section Eight.


This would be the right place then.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> How about we do it this way you tell me yours first as I have already given two examples.


Sure - I'll research and get back to you tomorrow.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> This would be the right place then.


Oh Bon don't mention the right , we must always be left. :lol:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> BOO :~0


And with that attitude, nothing can be accomplished by anyone. So the onus is now on you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Get use to it, she might be having a possible post hippie senior moment.


I never realized that being a hippie back in the time was a bad thing. Peace loving people.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why can't we disagree with out being ugly?


I think because the natural thing to do when you are attacked is to attack back. It isn't conversation about policies or disagreements about what's going on. It's gloating demeaning, personal attacks, snide remarks, catty stuff, and on and on. I believe that's why Bydie and Cherf are back.
And I'm leaving to knit.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I never realized that being a hippie back in the time was a bad thing. Peace loving people.


Man, I always wanted to be a hippie! (Not anatomically, of course!) However, over time it could be occurring..............


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Good night sleepy tight and pleasant dreams to you all here a wish and a pray that all your dreams come true. And now till we meet again. blame I can't go on. But wishing you all a good nights sleep, and see you all tomorrow same time same place sane or insane .


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I think because the natural thing to do when you are attacked is to attack back. It isn't conversation about policies or disagreements about what's going on. It's gloating demeaning, personal attacks, snide remarks, catty stuff, and on and on. I believe that's why Bydie and Cherf are back.
> And I'm leaving to knit.


While I don't know the names that you noted, I truly hope we all can rise above and exchange opinions, information and views without resorting to pettiness. It doesn't add to anyone's credibility and actually creates a negative environment.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> You are so right, how could I have ever doubted your wisdom.


Thanks, yarnie. Coming from you that means a lot. :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Good night sleepy tight and pleasant dreams to you all here a wish and a pray that all your dreams come true. And now till we meet again. blame I can't go on. But wishing you all a good nights sleep, and see you all tomorrow same time same place sane or insane .


Sane or insane - I like that. For me - it changes constantly depending upon my husband and my dogs! Good night!!!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh Bon don't mention the right , we must always be left. :lol:


How about this - we must always be ourselves and just.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> While I don't know the names that you noted, I truly hope we all can rise above and exchange opinions, information and views without resorting to pettiness. It doesn't add to anyone's credibility and actually creates a negative environment.


Oh heck - I responded to the wrong person. May I blame my 2nd glass of red wine?? Please???


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> While I don't know the names that you noted, I truly hope we all can rise above and exchange opinions, information and views without resorting to pettiness. It doesn't add to anyone's credibility and actually creates a negative environment.


Sorry, GW. I will have to take a shower to get the muck off and I will try to not lower myself to other's less than polite standards and stay above the fray where I belong. Thanks for the reminder as I do value your opinion.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Good night sleepy tight and pleasant dreams to you all here a wish and a pray that all your dreams come true. And now till we meet again. blame I can't go on. But wishing you all a good nights sleep, and see you all tomorrow same time same place sane or insane .


Same to you yarnie. Sweet dreams.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The more time you waste insulting each other, the less time you have for reasonable discussion. Why waste preciuos time on insults when there's so much more you could say?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's true--up until now the GOP has had one goal and one goal only: to drive Obama out of office. I think they're beginning to wise up, though--those poll results are pretty shocking.


So are the low job approval ratings of Republicans in both houses.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh heck - I responded to the wrong person. May I blame my 2nd glass of red wine?? Please???


I was thinking of you today GW and hoping those nasty storms going through Texas missed you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope you never have an immediate need of the military or National Guard since you protested sending a portion of your taxes to support the military as is your LEGAL obligation.
> 
> Leave the USA immediately since EVERY military member fought and fights for your right to live in the USA AND fought for your right to protest same.
> 
> ...


It's her constitutional right to protest. It's no different than the righties protesting where their tax money goes to. Geez, Cherf, I thought you were smarter than that! 
This is all so last November. How did that humble and crow pie taste the day after the election?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EVERY one of the service members in the US military are willing to risk his life for what they believe in and do it for all Americans.
> 
> Perhaps you can explain that to the "Peace" goddess.


Not as many as you think. Many Iraq vets are singing a different tune.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Country, maybe we should refer to the Obama Administration as "Hogan's Heroes". If you think about it, the similarities are frightening.
> 
> Another thought, why do libs live in the past? What is so endearing about the 1950's and 60's? Why can't they give us examples of how starving yourself helps today? I think it is called anorexia.
> 
> Oh and it looks like they are trying to start a book club, is it because they have nothing new to say?


Why are you always referring to Ronald Reagan? Is not that in the past? Clinton and Lewinski. Isn't that in the past?
If we choose to read a book together, it's simply that we choose to. Your large probiscus is at it again. Put your donkey mask back on. You assume way too much.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Look in another direction - wasn't Obama even though many would like it to be. Two republican senators from Oklahoma voted against giving additional aid to the victims of Sandy. What do you want to be they will ask for federal aid now?


Oh, they are getting federal aid. "We don't want money from the Federal Gov't" but send us money and FEMA right now!"


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jannetie said:


> Ah, but left IS the right direction..


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Bonnie
> You aren't quite vicious enough like these newest Christians who aren't really new at all--or even Christian. You should be thankful that you don't have that "go for the jugular" mentality.


Alcameron - I realize that your constant digs on Christianity are targeted at specific individuals but that doesn't mean that they aren't hurful and offensive to Christians reading them. You are engaging in the same type of stereotypical comments that you have criticized others for. As a Christian, I would appreciate it if you would not use my faith as a weapon. Thank you


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is that why you guys are so bitter.....because the election is over and you lost?


You hit the nail right on the head, damemary. They are still in shock.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentsgifts said :
Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.

"My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!"


Here we go again Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi..........
It's a sinking ship with Issa at the helm.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No we are upset to see the present administartion lie to the the people of this country. To keep people around him that should have been fired or brought to trial for what they have done. But you seem to walk around it all and avoid what has been done then to look at it for what it is. An injustice to the American people he is no better then Richard Nixon, and should recieve the same as Nixon did.


Nothing has been proved to implicate Obama yet yarnie. Still waiting at the tree with the noose?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Why would you post this? Why the need to post something petty and snarky? I would suspect that you are above this yet you resort to this type of posting? And don't give me the "they did it first" because that is so very weak. Post with integrity please.


She knows no other way, GW.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes it is, when one is telling the truth they need not fear telling what they know.
> If she has something to hide then it would seem she does not want it to be known. She also may not want to tell who really is behind what happen in the IRS.
> I have yet to see a person who is innocent want to use the fifth . If you do please show me.


I totally disagree. I thought all you righties are the defenders of the constitution. Maybe only when it suits you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Another question for the progs:
> 
> How long does it take you all to "caucus" to come up with your communal pathetic slurs before you pounce into our midst???


OH, Bydie, are you still bitter from the results of the election?
WE don't "caucus". Unlike you on the right, we have our own opinions and thoughts.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BTW, one of the jobs of a Christian is to battle against evil. The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level.


That is the most hilarious statement I have ever seen you make. Poor thing, how are you going to keep all of that hate festering inside of you for the next 3 1/2 years?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh are you ever needed on here! I had to stop posting - couldn't get anywhere. Good luck - I hope you and the rest of the team do better than I could!


Thought you were leaving the page, Bonnie. Maybe you can sit back and let Bydie and Cherf do all the talking for you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Oh pardon me....for offending your sensibilities...perhaps I should have said "bidet".


Not the same thing.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Well, I'm going off to knit . . . . Oh-oh. Did I use the SE's name in vain?
> Later


It depends on what your definition of SE is lol


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, thanks. That must be why I feel dizzy trying to follow her 'logic.'



GWPlver said:


> Oh yes, she has been around and around and around!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Susan is a bright person. You demean yourself by insulting her. Good night. Time for a nap.



theyarnlady said:


> I know Susan and you really should try to act like an adult, but it is beyond your ability to even think like one.
> 
> But then I would not expect you to even understand that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too GW. In those days, you never wanted to be one of the short hairs. My hair was long. I studied hard. But my philosophy was always with the hippies. Makes me sad to see so many hippies become Republicans as they got old.



GWPlver said:


> Man, I always wanted to be a hippie! (Not anatomically, of course!) However, over time it could be occurring..............


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe they are all having senior moments and have 'forgotten' they LOST the Presidential Election. It is now President Obama until January 2017. Seems like a long time. And there is so much talk of having President Hillary Clinton after that if she wants it. She certainly has the smarts and experience. Don't you think?



alcameron said:


> I'm still wondering why the two of you felt the need to come back to visit. You must just love the company here! You sure all high-tailed it around election time last fall!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes. He has remained painfully aloft of Benghazi as if it never happened.



off2knit said:


> Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No answer and they never send $$. They often are the ones looking for all the freebies from medicare. And they are quick to have all the medical tests done unless they are "not covered"



west coast kitty said:


> Do you get an answer from your friends? My friends and family to the left end up agreeing that we prefer to choose which charities and non-profits we want to contribute to. I don't know of anyone that has ever made a gift to the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency)


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Add me to that.



Bydie said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Me too!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Out of 17 post, 16 were quote replies from Bratty. Followed by 5 consecutive dame. Conclusion, no original ideas can be generated by them.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Isn't it shameful that the Obama administration continues to pay the Fort Hood terrorist almost $300,000 and counting, when the victims of his terrorism are not getting the benefits they deserve because it was a workplace shooting. I know it is the law, but why hasn't the Obama Administration come to their aide or try to change the law to help them?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Yesterday was reminiscent of days with my immediate and extended family, full of their unquestioning allegiance to the idea that might is right and my belief that peace is a viable alternative that requires scrutiny of authority and recognition of mistakes. Both painful and unpleasant tasks, which can result in understanding only if people are open to finding a common ground. Unfortunately with my family as with some on this thread the common ground was never found. 

However it is another day and I plan to use it to finish the big runner rug project I have spent weeks working on and I wish you all a wonder filled day.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think because the natural thing to do when you are attacked is to attack back. It isn't conversation about policies or disagreements about what's going on. It's gloating demeaning, personal attacks, snide remarks, catty stuff, and on and on. I believe that's why Bydie and Cherf are back.
> And I'm leaving to knit.


I believe they're back to fight the GOOD fight! This potty talk and nastiness is silly. Go visit another place and see - there's laughter and joy in this world!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think because the natural thing to do when you are attacked is to attack back. It isn't conversation about policies or disagreements about what's going on. It's gloating demeaning, personal attacks, snide remarks, catty stuff, and on and on. I believe that's why Bydie and Cherf are back.
> And I'm leaving to knit.


 double post - smack me upside the head! And there are some who would do it, too!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Yesterday was reminiscent of days with my immediate and extended family, full of their unquestioning allegiance to the idea that might is right and my belief that peace is a viable alternative that requires scrutiny of authority and recognition of mistakes. Both painful and unpleasant tasks, which can result in understanding only if people are open to finding a common ground. Unfortunately with my family as with some on this thread the common ground was never found.
> 
> However it is another day and I plan to use it to finish the big runner rug project I have spent weeks working on and I wish you all a wonder filled day.


Common ground should be found on some issues, house paint colors, types of dog to own..... But for me, I will not compromise on my basic moral and religious beliefs. I can not find common ground on abortion. It appears to me, that if someone does not compromise with you, meaning going over your way of thinking, they are incapable of having an open mind. That is not the case, could be a case of standing up for your core beliefs. Would you change yours to mine? If not, does that mean you are not open to change?

Happy rug hooking


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Isn't it shameful that the Obama administration continues to pay the Fort Hood terrorist almost $300,000 and counting, when the victims of his terrorism are not getting the benefits they deserve because it was a workplace shooting. I know it is the law, but why hasn't the Obama Administration come to their aide or try to change the law to help them?


What a fine idea--discontinuing an accused soldier's salary and leaving his two motherless sons destitute even before he goes to trial. The sins of the fathers, right? In fact, why bother with a trial at all? Hasan is probably guilty, and to the Republican mind that's plenty good enough. 
It amazes me how eager the rightists are to suspend the Constitution and bypass laws that get in the way of their agenda. In general I don't think it's wise to mix religion and politics, but THANK GOD we have a Democratic President. Obama may not be perfect, but if the GOP was in charge we'd be living in a police state by now.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I believe they're back to fight the GOOD fight! This potty talk and nastiness is silly. Go visit another place and see - there's laughter and joy in this world!


"The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level."

The good fight. Uh-huh.

Really Bonnie, you surprise me. If you wanted to fight this way--no holds barred--then you should have let us know sooner. I and no doubt others have tended to bypass your comments when the mud starts flying--primarily out of respect for you and a distinct feeling that you don't approve of this sort of thing. Seems we were wrong--OK, correction noted. Thank you for setting us straight. Now take off your gloves and start swinging--let's all see what the girl's got.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well, off. You've proven you can count. What's your point?



off2knit said:


> Out of 17 post, 16 were quote replies from Bratty. Followed by 5 consecutive dame. Conclusion, no original ideas can be generated by them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could it be that he has been working on what he can do on his own? The President (Executive Branch) does not change the law. The Legislative Branch (Congress) does that. The third branch of our government is the Judicial Branch.



off2knit said:


> Isn't it shameful that the Obama administration continues to pay the Fort Hood terrorist almost $300,000 and counting, when the victims of his terrorism are not getting the benefits they deserve because it was a workplace shooting. I know it is the law, but why hasn't the Obama Administration come to their aide or try to change the law to help them?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So why are Birdie, Surf and the rest of you here if it's so nasty?



bonbf3 said:


> I believe they're back to fight the GOOD fight! This potty talk and nastiness is silly. Go visit another place and see - there's laughter and joy in this world!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> So why are Birdie, Surf and the rest of you here if it's so nasty?


Yes, and why had Bonnie returned for the umpteenth time? Guess it wasn't because she disliked the nastiness (as she claimed) but rather that she couldn't come up with any zingers herself. Now that she has Byrdie and the other retread to help her out I guess that little problem is solved. What a disappointment.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Alcameron - I realize that your constant digs on Christianity are targeted at specific individuals but that doesn't mean that they aren't hurful and offensive to Christians reading them. You are engaging in the same type of stereotypical comments that you have criticized others for. As a Christian, I would appreciate it if you would not use my faith as a weapon. Thank you


I honor and respect real Christians. It is the hypocrisy of fake Christians that upsets me. They give real Christians a bad name.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> double post - smack me upside the head! And there are some who would do it, too!


Good sense of humor, Bonnie.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I never realized that being a hippie back in the time was a bad thing. Peace loving people.


There's a saying about how if you remember the 60's, you weren't there. I think it's far truer that the better you remember the 60's the more you were there. Also recall we called ourselves freaks and heads. Someone else laid the name hippy on us. Whatever the name, a very interesting time was had by some of us, and we didn't consider it a bad thing at all.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> There's a saying about how if you remember the 60's, you weren't there. I think it's far truer that the better you remember the 60's the more you were there. Also recall we called ourselves freaks and heads. Someone else laid the name hippy on us. Whatever the name, a very interesting time was had by some of us, and we didn't consider it a bad thing at all.


The Peace Generation was a bit before my time, but I've always found it fascinating that the flower children were the byproducts of the June and Ward-style parenting of the 50s. I won't pass judgement on that era as it contained both plusses and minuses, but it's undeniable that those of the post-war generation were expected by society to lead very conventional lives. So strange that that in turn led to generation that rejected the whole package.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was thinking of you today GW and hoping those nasty storms going through Texas missed you.


We got the rain and some wind but nothing like they predicted. The worst part of the storm when north and east of Dallas. I am grateful for the rain though! Thanks for thinking of me.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> double post - smack me upside the head! And there are some who would do it, too!


No smacking allowed!! I did a double post the other day too!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Boy Scouts are to vote this week. It will be interesting to hear the outcome.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Common ground should be found on some issues, house paint colors, types of dog to own..... But for me, I will not compromise on my basic moral and religious beliefs. I can not find common ground on abortion. It appears to me, that if someone does not compromise with you, meaning going over your way of thinking, they are incapable of having an open mind. That is not the case, could be a case of standing up for your core beliefs. Would you change yours to mine? If not, does that mean you are not open to change?
> 
> Happy rug hooking


I agree totally! And that said may I add that I do not share my thoughts and feelings because I think that it will change the minds of those who think differently. I share my thoughts to show LIKE-MINDED people that they are not alone. AND, I will not be bullied into silence.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> The Peace Generation was a bit before my time, but I've always found it fascinating that the flower children were the byproducts of the June and Ward-style parenting of the 50s. I won't pass judgement on that era as it contained both plusses and minuses, but it's undeniable that those of the post-war generation were expected by society to lead very conventional lives. So strange that that in turn led to generation that rejected the whole package.


Juat considering the Civil Rights Movement and the Anti-War (Vietnam) Movement, it was easy to reject the whole package, as you call it.

I'm pretty convinced that while a lot of the "Peace Generation" grew their hair out and wore some amusing clothes, far fewer of them went all out than it seems.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Boy Scouts are to vote this week. It will be interesting to hear the outcome.


I'm guessing they'll lift the ban on the boys but retain it for adults. Really shocking that the organization has been allowed to discriminate against children for so long.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What a fine idea--discontinuing an accused soldier's salary and leaving his two motherless sons destitute even before he goes to trial. The sins of the fathers, right? In fact, why bother with a trial at all? Hasan is probably guilty, and to the Republican mind that's plenty good enough.
> It amazes me how eager the rightists are to suspend the Constitution and bypass laws that get in the way of their agenda. In general I don't think it's wise to mix religion and politics, but THANK GOD we have a Democratic President. Obama may not be perfect, but if the GOP was in charge we'd be living in a police state by now.


Especially while Nadal Hassan, the radical Islamic terrorist murderer at Fort Hood, continues to receive a salary, and all military benefits including the possibility of A PURPLE HEART! Bozo is truly a disgrace.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> AND, I will not be bullied into silence.


Hmm, is that a challenge?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Obo's stooge, Lois Lerner, is about to plead the Fifth. FINALLY, Obo's group of gangsters have found a part of the Constitution that they can "stand behind." No, I didn't say "support".


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Obviously it is. Fine with me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm guessing they'll lift the ban on the boys but retain it for adults. Really shocking that the organization has been allowed to discriminate against children for so long.


I hope not especial with the adults. I have read about some of the adults sexual abusing young boys.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Common ground should be found on some issues, house paint colors, types of dog to own..... But for me, I will not compromise on my basic moral and religious beliefs. I can not find common ground on abortion. It appears to me, that if someone does not compromise with you, meaning going over your way of thinking, they are incapable of having an open mind. That is not the case, could be a case of standing up for your core beliefs. Would you change yours to mine? If not, does that mean you are not open to change?
> 
> Happy rug hooking


Common ground is is agreeing on a problem and working together to solve it.

Hooked rug? I did not say hooked. I am knitting a rug. You assumed it was hooked.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I hope not especial with the adults. I have read about some of the adults sexual abusing young boys.


There's no room for pedophiles in any organization--but most are heterosexual.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I agree totally! And that said may I add that I do not share my thoughts and feelings because I think that it will change the minds of those who think differently. I share my thoughts to show LIKE-MINDED people that they are not alone. AND, I will not be bullied into silence.


I am agree with you. Just think what could have happen in this country so many times if one had remain silent.By speaking up others felt free to to understand and join in. :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Me too. Silence is consent.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cauliflower Pizza Crust Recipe

http://www.eat-drink-smile.com/2011/04/cauliflower-crust-pizza.html


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And how do you come to that conclusion? Facts please.



susanmos2000 said:


> Obama may not be perfect, but if the GOP was in charge we'd be living in a police state by now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good! Glad to hear they bypassed you, GW. It's cold here again.
48 and rainy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Especially while Nadal Hassan, the radical Islamic terrorist murderer at Fort Hood, continues to receive a salary, and all military benefits including the possibility of A PURPLE HEART! Bozo is truly a disgrace.


Blah, Blah, Blah.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am agree with you. Just think what could have happen in this country so many times if one had remain silent.By speaking up others felt free to to understand and join in. :thumbup:


Remarkable that impersonating a whoopee cushion then daring folks to sit on you passes in some folks' mind for political activism. Offhand I can think of several strategies that might produce better results--petitions, boycotts, voter registration drives--but it seems that some members of the far right are only capable of generating a fanfare of flatulence.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Many young men and women I speak to that are considering enlisting in the military do it because they think they will get an education paid for and believe their job prospects are dim (which is true). Few mention protecting America or freedom. I talk to numerous teens and young adults in my guise of Peacegoddess.


With this I agree. The economy is so poor and getting worse under the policies of the Obama Administration. Also, too many Americans believe they are entitled to be taken care of and not believe they are to earn their way, so they join the military.

Patriotism, serving your country and being proud to be an American is no longer the choice of those who instead decide to take advantage of what the Government can do for them instead of what good they can do for their country.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> What a rude response, knit! I am appalled by your name-calling. And, as I've said before, there are many citizens who thoroughly disagree with you....but they use facts to base their opinions.


Damemary, I didn't call anyone any names. I do not believe I've communicated with you previously and have no idea why you responded to me specifically.

You must be confusing me with someone else. I'll admit, I, too, have some time following all the players in this thread. Some posts are really ugly and obviously carry forward a negative history between the posters.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Remarkable that impersonating a whoopee cushion then daring folks to sit on you passes in some folks' mind for political activism. Offhand I can think of several strategies that might produce better results--petitions, boycotts, voter registration drives--but it seems that some members of the far right are only capable of generating a fanfare of flatulence.


What purpose does your remark serve? Is it really necessary?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> knit, did you really just join today?


Yes! That is important to you because ........?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Watch our! The Boogie Man is coming.


What the heck are you trying to convey to me?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> No need to do so.


GWPlver, I'll take your lack of explanation then, as understanding and agreement with mine. Thank you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Hmmm....maybe you should consider moving to another country so that you may be happier. Apparently, you don't like the USA.


GW: There is not a single word in my comment from which you can come to the conclusion that I "don't like the USA." In fact, proper comprehension would conclude the complete opposite.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Damemary, I didn't call anyone any names. I do not believe I've communicated with you previously and have no idea why you responded to me specifically.
> 
> You must be confusing me with someone else. I'll admit, I, too, have some time following all the players in this thread. Some posts are really ugly and obviously carry forward a negative history between the posters.


Just as they did last fall. You remember, don't you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> By definition, the world can only be at peace without war. Nasty twists to try to confuse a point. Give it up. We're too smart for you.


My questions were to PeaceGoddess, so I'll ignore your rudeness and arrogance.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Would you please answer the last question and explain how you arrived at your answer? To answer your entire post would take pages so let's break it down. You start please since you posed the question. Thank you.


My questions were to PeaceGoddess to whom I was speaking. I'm happy to hear your answers as well. Thank you.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I hope not especial with the adults. I have read about some of the adults sexual abusing young boys.


Yes, but that occurs with priests, coaches and teachers as well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Nope not so - check the suicide rate.


What? The suicide rate has NOTHING to do with those willing to risk their very lives and join a military service.

What the heck are you comparing. Do you even know?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My questions were to PeaceGoddess to whom I was speaking. I'm happy to hear your answers as well. Thank you.


Oops, my bad.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What a fine idea--discontinuing an accused soldier's salary and leaving his two motherless sons destitute even before he goes to trial. The sins of the fathers, right? In fact, why bother with a trial at all? Hasan is probably guilty, and to the Republican mind that's plenty good enough.
> It amazes me how eager the rightists are to suspend the Constitution and bypass laws that get in the way of their agenda. In general I don't think it's wise to mix religion and politics, but THANK GOD we have a Democratic President. Obama may not be perfect, but if the GOP was in charge we'd be living in a police state by now.


Susan:

I wouldn't call him a soldier. Terrorist, killer, traitor, more likely. Hasan is PROBABLY guilty. Probably - I should say at least. There were a few people he didn't manage to kill who were eyewitnesses to his crimes.

I am afraid that we are approaching a police state now - illegal taps by the Department of Justice of reporters' and their parents' (for pete's sake!) phones and emails, IRS targeting certain groups for persecution - also illegal, president and sec of state lying to the American people and later to the world about Benghazi, coverups of all three scandals.

How do we find the truth about anything if the president won't talk, the people involved won't talk, and the Department of Justice is part of the cover-up and won't talk? Seriously, I feel helpless and hopeless, watching all attempts to get to the truth stymied.

I would hope that if the president I supported did these things, that I would be able to step back and look for the truth. In fact, that happened. I was a Nixon supporter. It took quite a while and was very hard for me to realize what he had done, but facts are facts. I still was very sad to him in disgrace. Just as you find qualities in obama that you admire, I saw qualities in Nixon that I admired. Also, I always am right in there for the underdog. I feel sorry for people who screw up.

In time - maybe - we'll know what's really going on. Someone will be right, and someone will be wrong. Someone will feel justified, and someone will feel like poo-poo (tried to clean that up the best I could). Maybe that's a consolation for all of us on either side of this fight. One day it will be over, and we will know.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Blah, Blah, Blah.


Come on, Bratty. You can't believe he deserves a Purple Heart. Surely.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> ******Indicate answers to your questions.
> >>>>> indicates knitpresentgifts' reply
> 
> ? Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
> ...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Glad you got that out of your system. These are questions that could promote dialogue, a back and forth and in this forum it is not easily achieved.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Susan:
> 
> I wouldn't call him a soldier. Terrorist, killer, traitor, more likely. Hasan is PROBABLY guilty. Probably - I should say at least. There were a few people he didn't manage to kill who were eyewitnesses to his crimes.
> 
> ...


Good post. I appreciate your comments.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Glad you got that out of your system. These are questions that could promote dialogue, a back and forth and in this forum it is not easily achieved.


 :wink:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> as a non-American, I have to admit that my kowledge of these rights is based on books, TV, movies etc. My understanding is that Miranda rights means a person needs to be informed of all of their legal rights and that the 5th Amendment means that a person is not required to provide information that could incriminate them. Would you please clarify what these rights are and how they are applied.
> Thanks


Hi west coast kitty, you are spot on! Miranda rights are simply repeated to someone taken into custody to remind them they do not have an obligation to speak without legal representation AND if one speaks what is said with or without representation may be used in a court or law.

When someone invokes the 5th amendment, that person has knowledge that what he says would recognize a criminal offense and in stating such fact(s) would, in fact, incriminate the very person speaking; testify against yourself. Americans are protected from incriminating themselves in our Constitution.

Hope that helps.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I have yet to see a person who is innocent want to use the fifth . If you do please show me.


Sorry to barge in, but you are correct. The 5th is invoked to protect oneself for self testimony about one's criminal action.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Come on, Bratty. You can't believe he deserves a Purple Heart. Surely.


Bonnie, I have read tons of articles on this and nowhere does it say that Nidal Hasan is to receive a Purple Heart. The victims of the shooting are the ones pushing for the Purple Hearts.
Yes, he has been receiving his salary since the shootings.
The Department of Defense says it would be illegal for the military to suspend his pay until he is proven guilty.
If it was in a civilian circumstance, his pay would have been suspended within 7 days.
These are the rules of the military and since this all took place on a military base, they have to be adhered to.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You should reach up for an idol, not down!


What a statement, seemingly racist as well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> BTW, one of the jobs of a Christian is to battle against evil. The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level.


I agree. This Administration has created so many battles against themselves its incredible. Fast & Furious, Benghazi, AP, IRS, Black Panthers, AG, Treasury. The President's credibility is quickly fading.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Bydie said:


> I think we had the same type of discussion back during the campaign when everyone was hooting about Romney's "off shore" investments. Turns out if you have any kind of investments, 401K, mutual funds, etc, they likely are in a tax shelter "off shore".
> BTW, I hear that Obummer only paid 18% in taxes last year. Hmmmmmmmmmm! Ironic, no???


I consider this 18% to be the answer to what paying ones fair share is. We just had to wait until his taxes were made public to find out.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you, nice to meet you on KP bonbf3.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Susan:
> 
> I wouldn't call him a soldier. Terrorist, killer, traitor, more likely. Hasan is PROBABLY guilty. Probably - I should say at least. There were a few people he didn't manage to kill who were eyewitnesses to his crimes.
> 
> ...


Bonnie I guess I gave you too much credit for knowing what has been going on but when Bush started assuming more and more power for himself as President did that bother you and frighten you. He started this assumption of power and unfortunately Obama has left what Bush/Cheney did in place. How do you feel about that or weren't you aware that it happened? You talk about scary? Bush is an idiot but Cheney rises from hell (Wyoming) and makes his grand pronouncements from time to time always negative of course. I think Cheney either is the devil or made a pact with the devil at some point in his life.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why can't we disagree with out being ugly?


I'm beginning to think the same thing. Some of the posts in this thread are so vicious and ugly. Not sure I'll continue to follow this thread not knowing the history of those slinging the mud at each other.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Well, I am going to leave you all since it's obvious not one of the progs has an intelligent response to my question. Night friends.
> 
> And Night, Night all you darling little progs. Sleep tight and don't let your consciences bite! XO


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Common ground should be found on some issues, house paint colors, types of dog to own..... But for me, I will not compromise on my basic moral and religious beliefs. I can not find common ground on abortion. It appears to me, that if someone does not compromise with you, meaning going over your way of thinking, they are incapable of having an open mind. That is not the case, could be a case of standing up for your core beliefs. Would you change yours to mine? If not, does that mean you are not open to change?
> 
> Happy rug hooking


Great idea, Off2Knit! On some things we cannot and should not compromise. So at family gatherings, find common ground and talk about that. I had that in my family, too. I know I've told this before - wonderful uncle but prejudiced. He was so kind and good, but blind to the subject. We used to argue about it. Finally, when he was probably in his seventies, he said that he really knew that blacks were every bit as good as we are, but it was just the way he was brought up. That was change.

Parents - disagreed with me on abortion. Over the years, one opinion changed, and the other didn't. It's a very complicated subject.

We seldom change other people's minds. If they change, it's usually their own doing. I think.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> The more time you waste insulting each other, the less time you have for reasonable discussion. Why waste preciuos time on insults when there's so much more you could say?


 :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's true--up until now the GOP has had one goal and one goal only: to drive Obama out of office. I think they're beginning to wise up, though--those poll results are pretty shocking.


Hardly shocking. Polls are relatively meaningless. They depend on the question asked and who is being asked. Hardly representative of American views when most only use 100 up to 1000 or so people.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a statement, seemingly racist as well.


Not at all racist. You think that way because of your hatred for Obama.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's her constitutional right to protest. It's no different than the righties protesting where their tax money goes to. Geez, Cherf, I thought you were smarter than that!
> This is all so last November. How did that humble and crow pie taste the day after the election?


Hi BrattyPatty, That is exactly what I posted; her constitutional right to protest was achieved and is defended by US military action.

The rest of your post is nonsensical.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree. This Administration has created so many battles against themselves its incredible. Fast & Furious, Benghazi, AP, IRS, Black Panthers, AG, Treasury. The President and his credibility are gone.


Who created these battles? Last time I checked it was the repubs and tea,Baggers in the House who were drumming up the business.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not as many as you think. Many Iraq vets are singing a different tune.


You have no idea what I think nor could you know the intentions of the majority of those who join the military. I have no idea why you even responded to my post.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Alcameron - I realize that your constant digs on Christianity are targeted at specific individuals but that doesn't mean that they aren't hurful and offensive to Christians reading them. You are engaging in the same type of stereotypical comments that you have criticized others for. As a Christian, I would appreciate it if you would not use my faith as a weapon. Thank you


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> knitpresentsgifts said :
> Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.
> 
> "My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!"
> ...


Have you no feeling for those who were murdered in Benghazi? Do you have no empathy for the families and friends of the men killed in Banghazi?

I'll assume you have no heart and therefore are of no consequence and are a supporter of Hillary Clinton who has no compassion for those killed in Benghazi as you have none.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nothing has been proved to implicate Obama yet yarnie. Still waiting at the tree with the noose?


I've not known such an evil being as you. Shameful. I thought you were a good and loyal American based on your avatar. Now I understand you are not even a good human being. Lesson learned.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "The cowardly, lying, narcissistic, deceitful, dishonorable, imposter POC presently occupying the oval office is the epitome of evil and deserves to be battled on every level."
> 
> The good fight. Uh-huh.
> 
> Really Bonnie, you surprise me. If you wanted to fight this way--no holds barred--then you should have let us know sooner. I and no doubt others have tended to bypass your comments when the mud starts flying--primarily out of respect for you and a distinct feeling that you don't approve of this sort of thing. Seems we were wrong--OK, correction noted. Thank you for setting us straight. Now take off your gloves and start swinging--let's all see what the girl's got.


Susan:
This girl's got very little. She chooses not to show you her worst - or at least I try not to. You know, I can be the meanest, most foul-mouthed B you've ever met, especially if I'm really mad (like at the tree-cutters yesterday). If that quote had been mine - in B mode - I wouldn't have used initials and the word wouldn't have begun with C. I have anger and pettiness and resentment and envy and all those other bad things right here inside me. I try to keep them there. Sometimes I fail, but seldom will you see me terrorize somebody - because right alongside all those destructive emotions is what I hope is the real me. And the real me - the person I want to be - truly sees good in everyone and feels very bad about hurting anyone's feelings. That's how I want to behave. I think I was just brought up that way.

I don't believe in hurting people. I think it's wrong, immoral, sinful. If I spout off at any of you, you can be sure I'm very sorry afterward. Even if I feel justified, I still feel regret even more. I know - I'm a sap. But - I'm 68 and used to myself. Life is more fun for me if I don't fight.

Now - do I dare talk about this? I remember when I realized that not judging people made life so beautiful. It's much easier, it's what I'm told by my religion that I should do, and it makes it so much easier to see the good in people. And it's there in every single person on this post - even the libs!

Why am I here at all? Well, if it's a pro-life issue, I feel I should not just say I'm pro-life, but also support it. I feel a moral obligation because it's about human life. Same for the death penalty and euthanasia. If it's any other controversial issue - politics, USA, etc - sometimes I just get fired up and have to defend my position, my country, etc. That's ego.

I'll bet a lot of you feel the same way I do. Maybe you just have more spunk. I like spunk - I just don't have an overabundance of it myself.

By the way, if that quote is what caused you to write the post to me, that quote is not mine. I agree with some of it, but I've never written POC. I don't object to it, I've just never used it. I want to give credit where credit is due.

Whoops! Just remembered - I'm not 68 any more. I'm 69.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Obo's stooge, Lois Lerner, is about to plead the Fifth. FINALLY, Obo's group of gangsters have found a part of the Constitution that they can "stand behind." No, I didn't say "support".


 :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi BrattyPatty, That is exactly what I posted; her constitutional right to protest was achieved and is defended by US military action.
> 
> The rest of your post is nonsensical.


Really, Cheryl? I don't think so.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you no feeling for those who were murdered in Benghazi? Do you have no empathy for the families and friends of the men killed in Banghazi?
> 
> I'll assume you have no heart and therefore are of no consequence and are a supporter of Hillary Clinton who has no compassion for those killed in Benghazi as you have none.


What I have no feeling for is the way the Republicans are trying to score political points over this. Of course I think it was a tragic event, but feel that we should be going after the people that actually killed them and not wasting anymore time and tax money on these ridiculous witch hunts over who said what.
It won't change anything.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie, I have read tons of articles on this and nowhere does it say that Nidal Hasan is to receive a Purple Heart. The victims of the shooting are the ones pushing for the Purple Hearts.
> Yes, he has been receiving his salary since the shootings.
> The Department of Defense says it would be illegal for the military to suspend his pay until he is proven guilty.
> If it was in a civilian circumstance, his pay would have been suspended within 7 days.
> These are the rules of the military and since this all took place on a military base, they have to be adhered to.


Oh - I misunderstood - thought you meant Hasan. Thanks for clearing it up. Yes, we have certain rules that have to be followed. It upsets people since some rules seem unjust. A fact of life.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Does this sound familar? I know nothing.


I think they are copying Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes. That was his catch phrase. "I know nothing", all the while knowing exactly what was going on.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I think they are copying Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes. That was his catch phrase. "I know nothing", all the while knowing exactly what was going on.


And you know this how?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Not at all racist. You think that way because of your hatred for Obama.


You don't know me and nor do I wish to know you. I do not hate Obama and admonish you for telling me I do. Clean up after yourself.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Yes, but that occurs with priests, coaches and teachers as well.


I agree with you, it a sad to think we have had this happen in the pass and nothing was said or done about it. But am so glad that it has been brought out in the open and that those who do it are at least in some cases being punish for it..


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie I guess I gave you too much credit for knowing what has been going on but when Bush started assuming more and more power for himself as President did that bother you and frighten you. He started this assumption of power and unfortunately Obama has left what Bush/Cheney did in place. How do you feel about that or weren't you aware that it happened? You talk about scary? Bush is an idiot but Cheney rises from hell (Wyoming) and makes his grand pronouncements from time to time always negative of course. I think Cheney either is the devil or made a pact with the devil at some point in his life.


 Cheeky, that's the way the other side feels about Obama.

I trusted George Bush, so I was not afraid he was going to take away my freedoms. I'm sure you feel that way about obama.

Why do we feel so opposite? Can one of us really be all wrong and the other all right? There are so many negative things that I could say about Obama, just as you could about Bush. Why is that?

Are we both so smart that we have a complete grasp of the issues and are making absolutely clear and good judgments? Or are we both so stupid that we blindly support "our guy" no matter what?

It's just too complicated for me to try to figure that out. We have our preferences based on all that's come before in our lives. Not just facts about presidents, but all that's happened to us about authority, opportunities, friendships, race, education, fairness, history, parents, and on and on. So we agree to disagree.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't know me and nor do I wish to know you. I do not hate Obama and admonish you for telling me I do. Clean up after yourself.


Isn't it your job to muck the stalls?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep, an Iron Cross for Yarnie. John Banner (Srgt. Schultz) was an Austrian Jewish refugee who escaped the Nazis by the skin of his teeth in 1938. Not a bad role model, particularly for our first African-American President.


What does this story have to do with the fictional character he played in the TV series? Not surprisingly, you missed the point.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Who created these battles? Last time I checked it was the repubs and tea,Baggers in the House who were drumming up the business.


Did you know that "teabagger" is an obscenity? I'd never heard of it until the Tea Party protests. I had to google it. Phew - I'm glad I never asked anybody about it!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Had no idea, Bonnie. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Cheeky, that's the way the other side feels about Obama.
> 
> I trusted George Bush, so I was not afraid he was going to take away my freedoms. I'm sure you feel that way about obama.
> 
> ...


I know you did not write this to me but I did want to comment. While I like Obama, I don't like all that he does. I liked Bush and I felt like he was doing the best he could but something was just missing and I can't verbalize what it was. I think that when our belief system is challenged, then we tend to hold on to it even tighter - without it, we are vulnerable.

Again, my opinion, but if we sat back and challenged ourselves to think a little differently, then we might realize that we can accept that someone has a different view and that is okay.

I think I'm rambling and not making my point very well so I'll just leave it at that. I like the questions you posed.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't it your job to muck the stalls?


BrattyPatty: Do not address me again. My post that you replied to was my post to a KP member named alcameron, not you.

Your posts I've read in this thread are nonsensical, ignorant and evil. You, however, are a miracle, a person who lives and breathes with no heart. I've learned that just recently, so I thank you _only_ for helping me to learn something new today.

Other than that, you are dead and invisible to me and deserve no response from me so don't bother addressing me again.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I know you did not write this to me but I did want to comment. While I like Obama, I don't like all that he does. I liked Bush and I felt like he was doing the best he could but something was just missing and I can't verbalize what it was. I think that when our belief system is challenged, then we tend to hold on to it even tighter - without it, we are vulnerable.
> 
> Again, my opinion, but if we sat back and challenged ourselves to think a little differently, then we might realize that we can accept that someone has a different view and that is okay.
> 
> I think I'm rambling and not making my point very well so I'll just leave it at that. I like the questions you posed.


I don't think you're rambling, and I think that's a good point. It's even interesting to let go of our assumptions, clear our minds, and really listen to another side. Very interesting and enlightening. And not really all that uncomfortable.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Look in another direction - wasn't Obama even though many would like it to be. Two republican senators from Oklahoma voted against giving additional aid to the victims of Sandy. What do you want to be they will ask for federal aid now?


They were not against the aid to Sandy victims, but against all the other crap that was in the bill which had nothing whatsoever to do with aid to the victims.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Had no idea, Bonnie. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.


Google it. It's just a little too much to share here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh my!! I won't be using that term again!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Why would you post this? Why the need to post something petty and snarky? I would suspect that you are above this yet you resort to this type of posting? And don't give me the "they did it first" because that is so very weak. Post with integrity please.


You should also ask this of Cheeky, Bratty, Susanmos2000, damemary, etc. It applies to both "sides".


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my!! I won't be using that term again!!


Well now I have to google it because I don't know either!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Did you know that "teabagger" is an obscenity? I'd never heard of it until the Tea Party protests. I had to google it. Phew - I'm glad I never asked anybody about it!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


How correct you are bonbf3. I wondered if alcameron knew the meaning since she used it recently and didn't seem to know what she was doing.

BTW: That seems to be the case on this thread by a lot of Progressives and those on the Left.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my!! I won't be using that term again!!


Bad, huh?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Well now I have to google it because I don't know either!


You might want to be sitting down.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> You might want to be sitting down.


Well okay then - wish I wasn't a visual person - didn't need that today! While not a word I have used - I certainly will not now.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Joeysomma, 

There could be a link, but someone else will take the fall for Barak. But, I hope if he is responsible, he'll get it good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Well okay then - wish I wasn't a visual person - didn't need that today! While not a word I have used - I certainly will not now.


Visual - disturbing, distressing. Clear your mind, dear. If you can.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> knitpresentsgifts said :
> Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.
> 
> "My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!"
> ...


CNN/ORC poll:

"59% of Americans believe House and Senate GOP members acted appropriately in their response to investigation into embassy bombing"

"54% believe that the legislators are acting appropriately in the response to the investigation surrounding the IRS"

CNN poll also found that "the number of Americans who believe the attack could have been prevented has increased by 11% since November".

"Rasmussen poll found 45% of Americans would rate the administrations response to the attack as poor and 8 in 10 believe it important to get to the bottom of the Benghazi investigation despite the Democrats desire to move on".


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> CNN/ORC poll:
> 
> "59% of Americans believe House and Senate GOP members acted appropriately in their response to investigation into embassy bombing"
> 
> "Rasmussen poll found 45% of Americans would rate the administrations response to the attack as poor and 8 in 10 believe it important to get to the bottom of the Benghazi investigation despite the Democrats desire to move on".


Interesting polls soloweygirl. I'm still disturbed that a member in this thread blames politics and waste by the GOP in investigating this tragedy, and she shows no compassion for those who lost their lives until I pointed out that fact. Mind boggling to me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, is that a challenge?


Oh, goodie, two more supposed adults who might start acting like little children and get into a pointless fight. That's what this topic needs,NOT. Take your aggressions elsewhere.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

What do you think about the IRS/Treasury upheaval? I'm trying to decide what I believe went on but the information is not being released to anyone's satisfaction yet.

I'm certain one or two employees in Ohio did not start investigating in a biased fashion on their own beliefs and ideals. Someone had to coordinate what has seem to become a huge, biased scheme to punish particular organizations seeking 501 status.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Did you know that "teabagger" is an obscenity? I'd never heard of it until the Tea Party protests. I had to google it. Phew - I'm glad I never asked anybody about it!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


Nope, didn't know that. Guess I should look it,up, too.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Teabagger apparently has more than one meaning

'Teabagger' Finalist For Oxford's 'Word Of The Year'

"Teabagger" is a finalist for the New Oxford American Dictionary's "word of the year."

Oxford gave a statement to Mediaite to clarify that they meant the political "teabagger," not anything salacious:

It should be noted that the term "teabagger" appears on Oxford's list because of the usage cited on that list, not because of any other meaning. Citations for the political sense were found in a number of legitimate sources throughout the year. As a reference to members of the currently active Tea Party, the word has been used in speech and print by both liberals and conservatives. In this context, the term "teabagger" is a reasonably conceived informal name for an affiliate of the Tea Party, and as a word in the news, it earned a mention for the year 2009.

Having deliberated carefully over the word-usage evidence, Oxford's lexicographers are confident in their judgment that "teabagger" the political term stands distinctly apart from "teabagger" the vulgar term.

Keith Olbermann took credit for popularizing the word on MSNBC Tuesday night. But the word "teabagger" actually started to spread after the Washington Independent's David Weigel photographed a protester at the first D.C. Tea Party Protest in February holding the sign, "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You!!"

"When I took that photograph at the first Tea Party in D.C., I thought it was funny," Weigel said. "I did not think it would play any role in defining a political movement. And while I personally don't use that word to refer to anti-Obama protesters, I am in very proud possession of a 'Proud to Be A Teabagger' button, so I guess the term has gone through the Lenny Bruce, adopt-it-against-our-enemies wringer."


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Bonnie

I also feel hopeless and helpless. This administration gets away with claiming ignorance regarding everything they touch. o has set the stage as he only finds out about things when we do. Or is he just lying. We continue to need leadership in the WH. And now Lerner refuses to testify despite the fact that she issued an opening statement and so gave up her right to not testify. And what about Sarah Ingram?

o is the most incompetent resident of the WH ever. Our country deserves better.


bonbf3 said:


> Susan:
> 
> I wouldn't call him a soldier. Terrorist, killer, traitor, more likely. Hasan is PROBABLY guilty. Probably - I should say at least. There were a few people he didn't manage to kill who were eyewitnesses to his crimes.
> 
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Teabagger apparently has more than one meaning
> 
> 'Teabagger' Finalist For Oxford's 'Word Of The Year'
> 
> ...


I'm a Tea Party supporter (not a member), and it was started as an insult directed at us. I've never heard it used any other way. I don't care what the Oxford Dictionary calls it, it's an obscenity to me. All the people who looked it up were shocked at its meaning. I guess no one found the one that claimed it was neutral.

I'm not denying your source, but maybe they have a political leaning. I still don't like being called that. Would anyone else enjoy being called that? Open question to all. Maybe I'm just too touchy.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What do you think about the IRS/Treasury upheaval? I'm trying to decide what I believe went on but the information is not being released to anyone's satisfaction yet.
> 
> I'm certain one or two employees in Ohio did not start investigating in a biased fashion on their own beliefs and ideals. Someone had to coordinate what has seem to become a huge, biased scheme to punish particular organizations seeking 501 status.


Wonder if they will take the 5th too?

I know it is against the law to assume someone is guilty about taking the 5th, but most will admit that is hard to do. But I think she is in deep trouble. She was under oath, and made a statement that she was totally innocent and then took the 5th. She should never have made any comment. Her admission to the IRS problem was 'staged' and knew someone would ask her that question, and she wanted to get ahead of it. Looks like that backfired too.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My questions were to PeaceGoddess, so I'll ignore your rudeness and arrogance.


Anyone here can remark on what you say to each and every single person who participates in this topic. After your experiences here last fall, I think you are already well aware of that fact.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Americans deserve the truth. Of course o would like it to go away, but it's too important to ignore.



BrattyPatty said:


> What I have no feeling for is the way the Republicans are trying to score political points over this. Of course I think it was a tragic event, but feel that we should be going after the people that actually killed them and not wasting anymore time and tax money on these ridiculous witch hunts over who said what.
> It won't change anything.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Also Manuel on Faulty Towers. I'm from Barcelona and I know nothing.



soloweygirl said:


> I think they are copying Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes. That was his catch phrase. "I know nothing", all the while knowing exactly what was going on.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Wonder if they will take the 5th too?
> 
> But I think she is in deep trouble. She was under oath, and made a statement that she was totally innocent and then took the 5th. She should never have made any comment. Her admission to the IRS problem was 'staged' and knew someone would ask her that question, and she wanted to get ahead of it. Looks like that backfired too.


I agree with you. I cannot think of a reason why she'd made an opening statement and then invoke the 5th. That is not how you take exception to the waiver. She has attorneys, so, I also agree she is needing the 5th to avoid incriminating herself.

No question, this issue will have to be investigated under oath. I'm wondering how this scandal got legs though. Who requested/demanded the bias and why? Any thoughts?

What a mess. This Administration's reputation is becoming embarrassing and starting to resemble that of a third world country.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cherf, getting a thumbs up from you is like getting a load of well-fermented garbage from a landfill dumped on my head.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Americans deserve the truth. Of course o would like it to go away, but it's too important to ignore.


To Bratty Patty -

Political points? But the government is lying to us! It's not so much the Republicans looking for political points as it is the Democrats denying what is before their very eyes. Nobody minds getting political points, but right now they don't matter. How can you dismiss the video story by Obama and Hilary - to us and to the world when they addressed Libya? Now the IRS is punishing people who don't agree with the admin. That's illegal.Squirming out of the law isn't truth. The Department of JUSTICE is raking through emails and phone records of a reporter and his parents. He doesn't even live with them. They are required by law to inform him before they do this. And they didn't! This should not be happening!

Regardless of political points or political party, this is very serious. If it's done to those you don't agree with, beware. It can happen to you, too. The people should not be powerless against this intrusion by the government. This is very bad, and if no one pays it will be only because they managed to somehow get out of it, not because it didn't happen. Remember when people used to "get off on a technicality?" That's not right.

I'm in one of the groups Homeland Security called terrorists. Pro-life. I'm no terrorist. Do you think it's okay for them to go through my personal emails and auditing me for no reason but my Tea Party support? Suppose they did it to you because we communicate on a knitting forum? Where does it end?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm a Tea Party supporter (not a member), and it was started as an insult directed at us. I've never heard it used any other way. I don't care what the Oxford Dictionary calls it, it's an obscenity to me. All the people who looked it up were shocked at its meaning. I guess no one found the one that claimed it was neutral.
> 
> I'm not denying your source, but maybe they have a political leaning. I still don't like being called that. Would anyone else enjoy being called that? Open question to all. Maybe I'm just too touchy.


No, I would not want to be called that, but I hear it used all the time and never heard the dirty word meaning. I shall NOT call you that!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> No, I would not want to be called that, but I hear it used all the time and never heard the dirty word meaning. I shall NOT call you that!


Thank you, Andrea! I appreciate that very much.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Anyone here can remark on what you say to each and every single person who participates in this topic. After your experiences here last fall, I think you are already well aware of that fact.


SeattleSoul: I understand this is a public forum, no need for any explanation. However, I was engaged in communication back/forth with someone directly and another person specifically addressed me and answered on behalf of another. I found that rude.

I joined Knitting Paradise only yesterday and have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence.

This thread is nuts in so many ways but it is all part of me finding my way around here I guess.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Cherf, getting a thumbs up from you is like getting a load of well-fermented garbage from a landfill dumped on my head.


Really? I'd consider it quite a compliment. Not the dumping - the thumbs-up.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Bonnie I like what you suggest. I think it needs to be predicated on both sides having respect for other opinions, sincere desire to understand our differences, appreciation of the influence of our backgrounds especially family, tolerance and all with good manners. Also sound objective references and kindness.



bonbf3 said:


> I don't think you're rambling, and I think that's a good point. It's even interesting to let go of our assumptions, clear our minds, and really listen to another side. Very interesting and enlightening. And not really all that uncomfortable.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Bonnie
> 
> I also feel hopeless and helpless. This administration gets away with claiming ignorance regarding everything they touch. o has set the stage as he only finds out about things when we do. Or is he just lying. We continue to need leadership in the WH. And now Lerner refuses to testify despite the fact that she issued an opening statement and so gave up her right to not testify. And what about Sarah Ingram?
> 
> o is the most incompetent resident of the WH ever. Our country deserves better.


There are way too many questions regarding the IRS' involvement and knowledge of the targeting. IRS officials knew for more than a year that their people were targeting groups inappropriately.

Who decided the scandal should unfold?, Why was Obama kept out of the loop (if he actually was)? Lerner had many different occasions to set the record straight and chose no to do so. Instead she came up with the "rouge agent" tale. Why?

The WH can't get their story straight or believable.
5/10 - Carney said he didn't "specifically" know when the WH became aware of the IG probe.

5/13 - Obama said he found out about IRS' targeting from the media

5/13 - Carney said WH counsel office knew about IG probe week of 4/22

The media has keep to their task of not reporting on anything negative out of this administration. This allows the administration to say they knew nothing until the media reported it. Not a very smart tactic as it make the administration look extremely foolish to the world.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> To Bratty Patty -
> 
> Political points? But the government is lying to us! It's not so much the Republicans looking for political points as it is the Democrats denying what is before their very eyes. Nobody minds getting political points, but right now they don't matter. How can you dismiss the video story by Obama and Hilary - to us and to the world when they addressed Libya? Now the IRS is punishing people who don't agree with the admin. That's illegal.Squirming out of the law isn't truth. The Department of JUSTICE is raking through emails and phone records of a reporter and his parents. He doesn't even live with them. They are required by law to inform him before they do this. And they didn't! This should not be happening!
> 
> ...


If there is criminal activity it should be punished. I would like to point out that there has been a heck of a lot of criminal activity during the Bush/Cheney administration that was far more serious, and nobody was punished or even brought to trial. We were lied to again and again by those two criminals. And look how many people were killed by their lies and refusal to act on intel.

My take on the IRS scandal is that the IRS didn't go far enough. They should have been investigating even more entities hiding behind the "social welfare" name. Their crime was not targeting fairly, but I'm not even sure yet that that didn't happen. And was it being done before this? Ask Doug Shulman, outgoing IRS director appointed by Bush. He just left his post last November. And was anyone killed? No comparison to what has gone on before, but the
Republicans and Tea Bag fanatics have pounced on everything to try to impeach Obama. Just remember--impeachment doesn't get him out of the White House. And I have not supported Obama blindly as many of you think.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

In the interest of common ground I wrote this up in about 2 seconds. Feel free to do whatever



Common ground
We all hate war.
We all hate killing with the exclusion of abortion.
Those of us who are Americans love our country, warts and all.
We are all glad we have the right to vote.
We are glad we have freedom of speech.
We are happy our country provides free public education.
We all hate abuse of power.
We think criminals should be punished and/or rehabilitated.
We are glad we are innocent until proven guilty.
We are glad we have the right to worship as we choose (or not).
We are happy we have the right to love whom we choose.
We are glad our country provides police and fire protection.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Soloweygirl; My sentiments exactly. This Admin wants to claim no knowledge nor responsibility for this and the other scandals for which they ignited.

Either they are completely incompetent or completely corrupt and somewhat efficient in covering their tracks.

I'll hope we'll have the truth someday.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> In the interest of common ground I wrote this up in about 2 seconds. Feel free to do whatever
> 
> Common ground
> We all hate war.
> ...


Nice work. Thank you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

I'm not included in the "we" of Alcameron's Common Ground Post contrary to her opinion. 

I'm grateful for my Rights and Freedoms as an American citizen to disagree.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes. He has remained painfully aloft of Benghazi as if it never happened.

off2knit wrote:
Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?

RUKnitting

Define painfully aloft, please. Who is in pain and what does aloft mean?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Damemary, I didn't call anyone any names. I do not believe I've communicated with you previously and have no idea why you responded to me specifically.
> 
> You must be confusing me with someone else. I'll admit, I, too, have some time following all the players in this thread. Some posts are really ugly and obviously carry forward a negative history between the posters.


You are the negative history.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes. He has remained painfully aloft of Benghazi as if it never happened.
> 
> off2knit wrote:
> Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?
> ...


I'm assuming she meant to say "aloof"--and the pain? Doubtless Republican in origin--onset: the moment CBS revealed that the GOP had altered the Benghazi emails.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My questions were to PeaceGoddess, so I'll ignore your rudeness and arrogance.


You are rude and you are arrogant. You could not hold a candle to Peacegoddess in any arena. You were subpar before and you are less than that now.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What? The suicide rate has NOTHING to do with those willing to risk their very lives and join a military service.
> 
> What the heck are you comparing. Do you even know?


Do you ever look at a newspaper or watch the news? Suicide in the military has gone through the ceiling. You really should keep yourself informed before you get into a conversation you obviously know nothing about.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a statement, seemingly racist as well.


What? You truly have lost it haven't you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not included in the "we" of Alcameron's Common Ground Post contrary to her opinion.
> 
> I'm grateful for my Rights and Freedoms as an American citizen to disagree.


You may disagree all you want. I thought there might be one or two things there that you, as an American, might agree with. What your respomse indicates to me is that people of your ilk don't want to agree to anything written by an American who isn't of your persuasion. Have you already sent the alarm and orders to your compadres?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Actually, grateful and thankful would have been better words.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm beginning to think the same thing. Some of the posts in this thread are so vicious and ugly. Not sure I'll continue to follow this thread not knowing the history of those slinging the mud at each other.


You are the only one slinging anything so why don't you close up your little dog and pony show and go plop yourself over on Denim and Pearls from whence you came. You have nothing to offer here of any value. La la land suits you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wonder if they will take the 5th too?
> 
> I know it is against the law to assume someone is guilty about taking the 5th, but most will admit that is hard to do. But I think she is in deep trouble. She was under oath, and made a statement that she was totally innocent and then took the 5th. She should never have made any comment. Her admission to the IRS problem was 'staged' and knew someone would ask her that question, and she wanted to get ahead of it. Looks like that backfired too.


This is a congressional hearing and not a court of law.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts

This is for you

Judith LeBlanc
Field Director
Peace Action

Background:

In November 2012, a ballot referendum passed in New Haven that called for moving the money from war to jobs rebuilding our infrastructure and human needs. This referendum won support nearly 6 to 1! This winter in Connecticut, the US Peace Council, No Nukes No War, the City of New Haven Peace Commission with the support of the state AFL-CIO and International Association of Machinists worked to get SB619 introduced in the state legislature calling for a Futures Commission whose goals is to investigate how to convert the weapons manufacturing industries to producing civilian, green products and retain and develop manufacturing in the state. The Commission that this bill creates will include representatives of labor, peace and environmental organizations.
With your support, CT can be the first state to pass a bill to convert military production to civilian use!


Power to the peaceful,


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are the only one slinging anything so why don't you close up your little dog and pony show and go plop yourself over on Denim and Pearls from whence you came. You have nothing to offer here of any value. La la land suits you.


Agree...and please take byrdie with you.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm assuming she meant to say "aloof"--and the pain? Doubtless Republican in origin--onset: the moment CBS revealed that the GOP had altered the Benghazi emails.


 More on the story
I know more trivia 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-white-house-claim-of-doctored-e-mails-to-smear-the-president/2013/05/20/a23343b6-c19e-11e2-8bd8-2788030e6b44_blog.html

The Pinocchio Test 
It has long been part of the Washington game for officials to discredit a news story by playing up errors in a relatively small part of it. Pfeiffer gives the impression that GOP operatives deliberately tried to smear the president with false, doctored e-mails.
But the reporters involved have indicated they were told by their sources that these were summaries, taken from notes of e-mails that could not be kept. The fact that slightly different versions of the e-mails were reported by different journalists suggests there were different note-takers as well.
Indeed, Republicans would have been foolish to seriously doctor e-mails that the White House at any moment could have released (and eventually did). Clearly, of course, Republicans would put their own spin on what the e-mails meant, as they did in the House report. Given that the e-mails were almost certain to leak once they were sent to Capitol Hill, its a wonder the White House did not proactively release them earlier.
The burden of proof lies with the accuser. Despite Pfeiffers claim of political skullduggery, we see little evidence that much was at play here besides imprecise wordsmithing or editing errors by journalists.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've not known such an evil being as you. Shameful. I thought you were a good and loyal American based on your avatar. Now I understand you are not even a good human being. Lesson learned.


You said you were leaving a long time ago so what is stopping you? You are so out of your league here.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In the interest of common ground I wrote this up in about 2 seconds. Feel free to do whatever
> 
> Common ground
> We all hate war.
> ...


Amen


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Frankly I doubt changing 

"The penultimate point could be abused by members to beat the State Department for not paying attention to Agency warnings.

to

The penultimate point is a paragraph talking about all the previous warnings provided by the Agency (CIA) about al-Qaedas presence and activities of al-Qaeda.

or

We need to resolve this in a way that respects all of the relevant equities, particularly the investigation.

to

"We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities, including those of the State Department, and we dont want to undermine the FBI investigation.

can be chalked up to editing errors and/or carelessness. The fact remains that what the GOP claimed was an airtight case did in fact require some doctoring. Pretty pathetic for a Party that claims to have a monopoly on truth and justice.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Mother Jones

It's not as if we didn't know this already, but today Major Garrett made it official: last week's leaks that misquoted the Benghazi emails came directly from Republicans. Here's the report on the CBS Evening News:

On Friday, Republicans leaked what they said was a quote from Rhodes: "We must make sure that the talking points reflect all agency equities, including those of the State Department, and we don't want to undermine the FBI investigation." But it turns out that in the actual email, Rhodes did not mention the State Department.

....Republicans also provided what they said was a quote from an email written by State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland. The Republican version quotes Nuland discussing, "The penultimate point is a paragraph talking about all the previous warnings provided by the Agency (CIA) about al-Qaeda's presence and activities of al-Qaeda." The actual email from Nuland says: "The penultimate point could be abused by members to beat the State Department for not paying attention to Agency warnings."

The CIA agreed with the concerns raised by the State Department and revised the talking points to make them less specific than the CIA's original version, eliminating references to al Qaeda and affiliates and earlier security warnings. There is no evidence that the White House orchestrated the changes.

So here's what happened. Republicans in Congress saw copies of these emails two months ago and did nothing with them. It was obvious that they showed little more than routine interagency haggling. Then, riding high after last week's Benghazi hearings, someone got the bright idea of leaking two isolated tidbits and mischaracterizing them in an effort to make the State Department look bad. Apparently they figured it was a twofer: they could stick a shiv into the belly of the White House and they could then badger them to release the entire email chain, knowing they never would.

But it was typical GOP overreach. To their surprise, the White House took Republicans up on their demand to make the entire email chain public, thus making it clear to the press that they had been burned. And now reporters are letting us all know who was behind it.

This has always been the Republican Party's biggest risk with this stuff: that they don't know when to quit. On Benghazi, when it became obvious that they didn't have a smoking gun, they got desperate and tried to invent one. On the IRS, their problem is that Democrats are as outraged as they are. This will force them to make ever more outrageous accusations in an effort to find some way to draw a contrast. And on the AP phone records, they have to continually dance around the fact that they basically approve of subpoenas like this.

A sane party would take a deep breath and decide to move on to other things. But the tea partiers have the scent of blood now, and it's driving them crazy. Thus the spectacle of Michele Bachmann suggesting today that it's time to start impeachment proceedings.

The GOP's adults can't keep their lunatic fringe on a leash, which means it's only a matter of time until they make fools of themselves on all three of the pseudoscandals that are currently lighting up the airwaves. The Republicans have met the enemy, and it is them.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How correct you are bonbf3. I wondered if alcameron knew the meaning since she used it recently and didn't seem to know what she was doing.
> 
> BTW: That seems to be the case on this thread by a lot of Progressives and those on the Left.


What is funny is how all the folks on the right know what it means. All of those good Christian women with their bible quotes posted all over know lots of nasty things. How do they know that? We on the left don't have our minds in the gutter we have a lot better things to do. Shame on you folks.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are rude and you are arrogant. You could not hold a candle to Peacegoddess in any arena. You were subpar before and you are less than that now.


I don't know who you are. Are you one of the people in your avatar?

You obviously feel the need to insult the person you think I am, and don't bother to take the time to get to know any new kid on the block nor welcome or treat someone you do not know with civility and respect.

Already, I've learned I must ignore the bullies in this thread who offer nothing to the conversation and choose to do nothing other than abuse and bully those with whom they do not agree. It is unfortunate you fall into that category before I had the chance to get to know you.

May peace find its way to you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

And may peace help you find your way back to Ravelry. You're not fooling anyone.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Teabagger apparently has more than one meaning
> 
> 'Teabagger' Finalist For Oxford's 'Word Of The Year'
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining the term. It isn't the first time the "good" bible quoters out here have been caught down in the gutter. They seem to have a fascination for all things, "nasty".


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know who you are. Are you one of the people in your avatar?
> 
> You obviously feel the need to insult the person you think I am, and don't bother to take the time to get to know any new kid on the block nor welcome or treat someone you do not know with civility and respect.
> 
> ...


Follow your own guidance....civility and respect.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In the interest of common ground I wrote this up in about 2 seconds. Feel free to do whatever
> 
> Common ground
> We all hate war.
> ...


Thanks, Andrea - I would hope this could be a foundation all could agree to.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know who you are. Are you one of the people in your avatar?


Sounds like a case of amnesia to me...maybe a rogue elephant sat on her head.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There are way too many questions regarding the IRS' involvement and knowledge of the targeting. IRS officials knew for more than a year that their people were targeting groups inappropriately.
> 
> Who decided the scandal should unfold?, Why was Obama kept out of the loop (if he actually was)? Lerner had many different occasions to set the record straight and chose no to do so. Instead she came up with the "rouge agent" tale. Why?
> 
> ...


soloway this is so yesterday's news. It has been brought up over and over again and already discussed. Can't you come up with something new?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> soloway this is so yesterday's news. It has been brought up over and over again and already discussed. Can't you come up with something new?


It's the feeding frenzy of the tea party mentioned in article above.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Soloweygirl; My sentiments exactly. This Admin wants to claim no knowledge nor responsibility for this and the other scandals for which they ignited.
> 
> Either they are completely incompetent or completely corrupt and somewhat efficient in covering their tracks.
> 
> I'll hope we'll have the truth someday.


I hope someday Bush and Cheney will be tried for war crimes. I mourn the loss of the thousands of lives on 9/11 because of their ineptitude and thousands of lost lives in the wars they dragged us into for nothing. Once those terrible sins have been paid for we can take up the alleged wrong doing of the Obama administration and if there is punishment due then let those who are guilty be punished. How can people carry on about the four lives lost in Benghazi when no one has paid for the thousands of lives lost under Bush/Cheney's regime of terror? Please someone answer, why? How can you not see the injustice that they have perpetrated against our country?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I doubt changing
> 
> "The penultimate point could be abused by members to beat the State Department for not paying attention to Agency warnings.
> 
> ...


Even more pathetic, Susan, is all the party faithful who like the folks on KP still will defend these people no matter how egregious their acts. They just can't admit the GOP is a shallow reflection of what it once used to be when their leadership actually had honorable people at the helm.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm assuming she meant to say "aloof"--and the pain? Doubtless Republican in origin--onset: the moment CBS revealed that the GOP had altered the Benghazi emails.


Thanks, Susan. GOP can't get anything right anymore.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is a congressional hearing and not a court of law.


But she took an oath to tell the truth. Not a court of law, but it is a Federal Crime to lie to Congress. If she lied, she will be in a court of law


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Even more pathetic, Susan, is all the party faithful who like the folks on KP still will defend these people no matter how egregious their acts. They just can't admit the GOP is a shallow reflection of what it once used to be when their leadership actually had honorable people at the helm.


I know--I actually feel pity at times for their obvious anger and frustration, then feel it evaporate in a flash when stuff like their altering of the emails comes out. They're so oppressed, so defeated at the hands of Obama's crooked government--then, just to prove their claims, they doctor the evidence to make it fit. Please.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are the only one slinging anything so why don't you close up your little dog and pony show and go plop yourself over on Denim and Pearls from whence you came. You have nothing to offer here of any value. La la land suits you.


You sound judgmental and you also sound like a bully.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Susan. GOP can't get anything right anymore.


No, they can't. I bet they were gulping down Advils by the handful that night, plus something to settle the old tum tum.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> But she took an oath to tell the truth. Not a court of law, but it is a Federal Crime to lie to Congress. If she lied, she will be in a court of law


Interesting point...so what happens to the folks who altered the Benghazi emails?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You may disagree all you want. I thought there might be one or two things there that you, as an American, might agree with. What your response indicates to me is that people of your ilk don't want to agree to anything written by an American who isn't of your persuasion. Have you already sent the alarm and orders to your compadres?


Andrea - You know she only came here to be the little tempest in the teapot. She never did intend to have any sincere interaction with anyone. For her it's her way or the highway. She is such a good little soldier. She is a very sad character that resorts to such base activities just to try to build her own sagging ego.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> But she took an oath to tell the truth. Not a court of law, but it is a Federal Crime to lie to Congress. If she lied, she will be in a court of law


Maybe she just did her job as told to do.
But I know how you guys think everybody is a liar.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Even more pathetic, Susan, is all the party faithful who like the folks on KP still will defend these people no matter how egregious their acts. They just can't admit the GOP is a shallow reflection of what it once used to be when their leadership actually had honorable people at the helm.


First I posted the article by the Washington post that gave it 3 Pinocchios concerning the doctoring of the emails.

Yes changes were made, but is that no different when the same is done when just snippets of things conservatives/liberals say are taken out of context and used to prove a point.

There are always sides to a story. Hopefully the truth will come out regarding everything even if some consider it old news


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea - You know she only came here to be the little tempest in the teapot. She never did intend to have any sincere interaction with anyone. For her it's her way or the highway. She is such a good little soldier. She is a very sad character that resorts to such base activities just to try to build her own sagging ego.


Came of her own initiative--or was asked to by a certain person or persons when their Benghazi barge went down? Well, as has so often been said here "the truth will out".


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And may peace help you find your way back to Ravelry. You're not fooling anyone.


She plays "dumb" really well, Patty. She made a bee line to this thread on KP. Coincidence, I think not. Hopefully, she will realize she is lost and will find her way back home.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Yes changes were made, but is that no different when the same is done when just snippets of things conservatives/liberals say are taken out of context and used to prove a point.


You seem like a intelligent and rational soul, so think carefully about what you're saying. Do you really feel that it's OK to take sentences out of context and to add loaded words like "State Department" and "Al Qaeda" to documents that are to be presented to a Congressional Committee?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She plays "dumb" really well, Patty. She made a bee line to this thread on KP. Coincidence, I think not. Hopefully, she will realize she is lost and will find her way back home.


Let's hope so. No sign of Byrdie today, maybe she found her way back to the coop already.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You may disagree all you want. I thought there might be one or two things there that you, as an American, might agree with. What your respomse indicates to me is that people of your ilk don't want to agree to anything written by an American who isn't of your persuasion. Have you already sent the alarm and orders to your compadres?


Oh, I do agree to some of what you wrote. However, you used the presumptive "we" and "all" which does not include those points I do not agree with, hence, why I stated I'm not included in your "we" opinions.

What "ilk" do you belong to?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Where's the fly swatter?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Actually, grateful and thankful would have been better words.


Again, alcameron, you do not speak for me. I said what I meant and meant what I said. I used the correct and appropriate word which was "grateful."

Perhaps you don't know the definition of that word? I looked it up for you:

grate·ful [greyt-fuhl] adjective

1. warmly or deeply appreciative of kindness or benefits received; thankful: I am grateful to you for your help.

To you use 'your' two words would have been redundant.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Smack!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Let's hope so. No sign of Byrdie today, maybe she found her way back to the coop already.


 You just try to start fights. What is wrong with you?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Missed. And now there's another one. They seem to be multiplying.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You seem like a intelligent and rational soul, so think carefully about what you're saying. Do you really feel that it's OK to take sentences out of context and to add loaded words like "State Department" and "Al Qaeda" to documents that are to be presented to a Congressional Committee?


First I thought I read that they were not given copies of the actual emails, so this was based on the notes they took from looking at the emails.

It is never okay to doctor or change things, as the truth will come out.
We now have copies of the emails since the WH finally released them.

If changes were made, that was stupid.

I think you gave me a compliment, so thanks.

Personally I am tired of all this, I am beginning to wonder if anyone knows what the truth is anymore.
But I have faith that the truth will prevail someday


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Again, alcameron, you do not speak for me. I said what I meant and meant what I said. I used the correct and appropriate word which was "grateful."
> 
> Perhaps you don't know the definition of that word? I looked it up for you:
> 
> ...


Picayune


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> First I thought I read that they were not given copies of the actual emails, so this was based on the notes they took from looking at the emails.
> 
> It is never okay to doctor or change things, as the truth will come out.
> We now have copies of the emails since the WH finally released them.
> ...


Don't pay any attention to susan she just likes to tear everyone down. It is her hobby.I care about the truth. Thanks for all the information you put on.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> knitpresentgifts
> 
> This is for you
> 
> ...


I'm not interested in moving money the money from wars to jobs and whatever else this organization proposes. Sequestration has already cut the military fundings drastically after huge prior cuts to their appropriations.

I'm interested in increasing jobs and funding for those who earn a living and to properly fund the military instead of denying them the weapons, equipment and health care they have already earned and require. I'm interested in shortening the orders for military members who are stretched too thin and are asked to defend America and its countrymen without this, first ever, Administration defending, equipping or supporting those who defend America.

I'm interested in decreasing the waste, fraud and abuse in government appropriation to green energy, superfluous committees and agencies, redundant government programs, food stamps, welfare and Medicaid abuse, abortion clinics, and any and all other abuses of taxpayer's funds.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, I do agree to some of what you wrote. However, you used the presumptive "we" and "all" which does not include those points I do not agree with, hence, why I stated I'm not included in your "we" opinions.
> 
> What "ilk" do you belong to?


I really didn't expect you to agree to anything because you have displayed an antagonistic attitude from the get-go. You could have agreed with one or two or any, or you could have offered alternative statements. It was a one-minute list and you could have explained how you agreed or disagreed about anything on the list. You chose not to look for "common ground" and you didn't disappoint.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

sjrNC,

Please don't listen, respect, pay any attention to the angry, mean people who have found a place to vent their unhappiness here on this site. We just ignore them. They are only trying to get you upset and fuel the fire. It's easy to see the ones that you can write to.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Follow your own guidance....civility and respect.


I do and have, have you?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Where's the fly swatter?


You need an intervention or prayer. Maybe both. A 40yo mother of a 10 year old son playing like she is swatting with a fly swatter ! You have serious problems.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Again, alcameron, you do not speak for me. I said what I meant and meant what I said. I used the correct and appropriate word which was "grateful."
> 
> Perhaps you don't know the definition of that word? I looked it up for you:
> 
> ...


You slay me! Patronizing, condescending, and arrogant! You may be queen of your platoon, but it doesn't play well here.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need an intervention or prayer. Maybe both. A 40yo mother of a 10 year old son playing like she is swatting with a fly swatter ! You have serious problems.


You're right...I need something more powerful.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

CB,

Definitely she needs prayers and an intervention. But, I am sure there is no one there to do the intervention. They have headed for the hills, never to return because of the nastiness. I bet their hands are washed of this person.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do and have, have you?


Well once again it is a matter of opinion. Mine is that you do not demonstrate respect or civility.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right...I need something more powerful.


Like I said you have problems.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Don't pay any attention to susan she just likes to tear everyone down. It is her hobby.I care about the truth. Thanks for all the information you put on.


Thanks I care about the truth too


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> sjrNC,
> 
> Please don't listen, respect, pay any attention to the angry, mean people who have found a place to vent their unhappiness here on this site. We just ignore them. They are only trying to get you upset and fuel the fire. It's easy to see the ones that you can write to.


Do you mean the new kid on the block? That's where the militaristic attitude has come from.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> You sound judgmental and you also sound like a bully.


Boy have you got her pegged, lovely how she treats folks huh? Thankfully, I've encountered her type before and can easily ignore.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> CB,
> 
> Definitely she needs prayers and an intervention. But, I am sure there is no one there to do the intervention. They have headed for the hills, never to return because of the nastiness. I bet their hands are washed of this person.


Hmm, I think I hear the drone of the heavy bombers now. Must be my imagination.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Like I said you have problems.


Stronger still....


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, I think I hear the drone of the heavy bombers now. Must be my imagination.


You are getting too violent. You are not funny. No one is laughing at you. You are joking about bodily harming someone.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Boy have you got her pegged, lovely how she treats folks huh? Thankfully, I've encountered her type before and can easily ignore.


Look in the mirror


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You just try to start fights. What is wrong with you?


I'm wondering the very same. Seems to be lots of weirdos and angry old women in this thread.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm wondering the very same. Seems to be lots of weirdos and angry old women in this thread.


Who's trying to start fights? You?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Picayune


No kidding, but she wanted to control my words regardless.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not interested in moving money the money from wars to jobs and whatever else this organization proposes. Sequestration has already cut the military fundings drastically after huge prior cuts to their appropriations.
> 
> I'm interested in increasing jobs and funding for those who earn a living and to properly fund the military instead of denying them the weapons, equipment and health care they have already earned and require. I'm interested in shortening the orders for military members who are stretched too thin and are asked to defend America and its countrymen without this, first ever, Administration defending, equipping or supporting those who defend America.
> 
> I'm interested in decreasing the waste, fraud and abuse in government appropriation to green energy, superfluous committees and agencies, redundant government programs, food stamps, welfare and Medicaid abuse, abortion clinics, and any and all other abuses of taxpayer's funds.


You are well on your way to an extremist manifesto.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Just saw an interview with a 4th grade teacher from one of the Moore schools talking about the tornado. She is a hero. 
Really a miracle only 24 people lost their lives. 
We lived in Oklahoma for a year, but I loved it there. 
Remember seeing Toby Keith's name on the Moore water tower on I-35


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm wondering the very same. Seems to be lots of weirdos and angry old women in this thread.


Most civil and respectful.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

She is isn't she. I think most teachers would do the same thing for their students. Looking at all the pics you are right it is a miracle that more haven't been killed with all the destuction there. It has been on the news for 2 days here. So terrible. Makes me so upset I have to turn away can't watch it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> You are well on your way to an extremist manifesto.


Reads like a Tea Party campaign speech, really. Are you by chance planning to run for office?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Reads like a Tea Party campaign speech, really. Are you by chance planning to run for office?


See what I mean?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No kidding, but she wanted to control my words regardless.


Now you have me in stitches! I wouldn't want to control anyone's words, especially yours! 
You have to demean people because they actually might be trying to accomplish something. You have no intention of being here for any agreement or to look for any common ground because you can't stand people who call themselves liberals, progressives, or God forbid--Democrats! 
I do believe I've been preached to by you before. At first I thought it was Cherf resurrected as whatever you call yourself now, but I've realized that you aren't a woman at all, but the banished Sharkey!! Did you have to demean yourself to get back on KP?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> See trouble maker.


Not at all--I give credit where credit is due.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Now you have me in stitches! I wouldn't want to control anyone's words, especially yours!
> You have to demean people because they actually might be trying to accomplish something. You have no intention of being here for any agreement or to look for any common ground because you can't stand people who call themselves liberals, progressives, or God forbid--Democrats!
> I do believe I've been preached to by you before. At first I thought it was Cherf resurrected as whatever you call yourself now, but I've realized that you aren't a woman at all, but the banished Sharkey!! Did you have to demean yourself to get back on KP?


(low whistle) That was before my time, but even I've heard about the notorious Sharkey. This isn't good.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I really didn't expect you to agree to anything because you have displayed an antagonistic attitude from the get-go. You could have agreed with one or two or any, or you could have offered alternative statements. It was a one-minute list and you could have explained how you agreed or disagreed about anything on the list. You chose not to look for "common ground" and you didn't disappoint.


Since I have posted perhaps 1% as compared to your thousands of posts, I'm amazed at your ability to suggest you know my very beliefs, thoughts, words I should be using and attitude. I've read your posts only within this thread to date. I leave it to the public to discern who is antagonistic and who is civil.

Your directions were to "do whatever we wanted" with your opinionated list, yet, now you critique my response. You also presumed I would agree to 'nothing' and by you using the words "we" and "all" I could not agree to anything!

I'm not into writing an all inclusive list that I tell people to do as they will and then criticizing them for doing as I suggested. That's your voluntary gig.

None of your other posts I've read to date, try or offer common ground with those who think differently than you, but I'm willing to keep reading before I form an opinion.

P.S. I thought it was a 2 second list; not one minute. Picayune, I know but just following your lead so you don't critique me again.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You need an intervention or prayer. Maybe both. A 40yo mother of a 10 year old son playing like she is swatting with a fly swatter ! You have serious problems.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You slay me! Patronizing, condescending, and arrogant! You may be queen of your platoon, but it doesn't play well here.


May I remind you, it was _you_, who chose to tell me what words _I_ should think, mean and should have written?

Is that not the very definition of that which you accuse me?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> She is isn't she. I think most teachers would do the same thing for their students. Looking at all the pics you are right it is a miracle that more haven't been killed with all the destuction there. It has been on the news for 2 days here. So terrible. Makes me so upset I have to turn away can't watch it.


Agree, the teachers I know would. We always put our students first.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Since I have posted perhaps 1% as compared to your thousands of posts, I'm amazed at your ability to suggest you know my very beliefs, thoughts, words I should be using and attitude. I've read your posts only within this thread to date. I leave it to the public to discern who is antagonistic and who is civil.
> 
> Your directions were to "do whatever we wanted" with your opinionated list, yet, now you critique my response. You also presumed I would agree to 'nothing' and by you using the words "we" and "all" I could not agree to anything!
> 
> ...


We cam comment on your attitudes because your every post exhibits them, silly.
Duty calls, over and out.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right...I need something more powerful.


I got your back


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Reads like a Tea Party campaign speech, really. Are you by chance planning to run for office?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> May I remind you, it was _you_, who chose to tell me what words _I_ should think, mean and should have written?
> 
> Is that not the very definition of that which you accuse me?


Nope. I didn't tell you any such thing. It was a quick and dirty attempt that you chose to ridicule rather than take as a starting point.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I got your back


Thanks! Whew! Thought I was going to have to activate Plan Z there for a while.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Nope. I didn't tell you any such thing. It was a quick and dirty attempt that you chose to ridicule rather than take as a starting point.


Here are my words: "I'm grateful for my Rights and Freedoms as an American citizen to disagree."

Alcameron, here are _your_ exact words.

Alcameron: "Actually, grateful and thankful would have been better words."

2nd topic: here - Alcameron's words:
"In the interest of common ground I wrote this up in about 2 seconds. Feel free to do whatever..."

1) You couldn't have been more clear letting me know I chose the wrong words.

2) You specifically told us to do whatever ....

Remember now that I've copied/pasted the exact words?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> May I remind you, it was _you_, who chose to tell me what words _I_ should think, mean and should have written?
> 
> Is that not the very definition of that which you accuse me?


Who IS this character? It's like being addressed by a robot.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Who IS this character? It's like being addressed by a robot.


Her name is Alcameron.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Her name is Alcameron.


Be very careful here, Cherf. Singling out one person to persecute will get you kicked off of here. Oh! But you already know that. It happened before to you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Her name is Alcameron.


Not her--you, Tin Man. Maybe those tornadoes really did originate in Oz. Sure blew in some strange debris.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

After reading several pages I have seen the new dem motto/phrase: common ground.

The dems have done absolutely nothing tonight to find common ground. I think it is the dems that think it is my way or the highway. The name calling and bullying only prove that the dems have no intention of finding a common ground.

Common ground would be for the dems to admit that Obama's administration is either acting illegally or ineptly, neither is good. They would admit that there are probably criminal charges to be filed regarding lying under oath. But they won't admit that there is anything wrong. They may accuse you of being from Oz, but they are a flock of turkeys with their mouths open to the sky during a rain storm and being surprised that they are drowning.

They distract and attack, so much for common ground


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Common ground would be for the dems to admit that Obama's administration is either acting illegally or ineptly, neither is good. They would admit that there are probably criminal charges to be filed regarding lying under oath.


In other words for everyone to toe the Republican Party line.
:roll:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> After reading several pages I have seen the new dem motto/phrase: common ground.
> 
> The dems have done absolutely nothing tonight to find common ground. I think it is the dems that think it is my way or the highway. The name calling and bullying only prove that the dems have no intention of finding a common ground.
> 
> ...


There are good legislators, both democrat and republican, who have left congress because they cannot find common ground. It is not only one side or the other it is both sides who obstruct the process.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There are way too many questions regarding the IRS' involvement and knowledge of the targeting. IRS officials knew for more than a year that their people were targeting groups inappropriately.
> 
> Who decided the scandal should unfold?, Why was Obama kept out of the loop (if he actually was)? Lerner had many different occasions to set the record straight and chose no to do so. Instead she came up with the "rouge agent" tale. Why?
> 
> ...


I know. It's very frustrating. We need to know what's going on.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> If there is criminal activity it should be punished. I would like to point out that there has been a heck of a lot of criminal activity during the Bush/Cheney administration that was far more serious, and nobody was punished or even brought to trial. We were lied to again and again by those two criminals. And look how many people were killed by their lies and refusal to act on intel.
> 
> My take on the IRS scandal is that the IRS didn't go far enough. They should have been investigating even more entities hiding behind the "social welfare" name. Their crime was not targeting fairly, but I'm not even sure yet that that didn't happen. And was it being done before this? Ask Doug Shulman, outgoing IRS director appointed by Bush. He just left his post last November. And was anyone killed? No comparison to what has gone on before, but the
> Republicans and Tea Bag fanatics have pounced on everything to try to impeach Obama. Just remember--impeachment doesn't get him out of the White House. And I have not supported Obama blindly as many of you think.


If Bush and/or Cheney had committed crimes, I'm sure the Democrats who hated them would have made it public. I don't remember hearings like those we're having now.

As for the IRS, you're pretty content with having them use their power to tax in order to punish those with certain political beliefs. What happens if a Republican is elected, the IRS attacks your groups and friends and even you? Would you be so content with it then? There are many Democrats who are also very disturbed about this.

It's wrong, and it's illegal. For those two reasons, it should not be allowed to continue, no matter how much some people might want it to.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Did everyone who wanted it find the recipe for the cauliflower crust pizza? Has anyone tried it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> If Bush and/or Cheney had committed crimes, I'm sure the Democrats who hated them would have made it public. I don't remember hearings like those we're having now.
> 
> As for the IRS, you're pretty content with having them use their power to tax in order to punish those with certain political beliefs. What happens if a Republican is elected, the IRS attacks your groups and friends and even you? Would you be so content with it then? There are many Democrats who are also very disturbed about this.
> 
> It's wrong, and it's illegal. For those two reasons, it should not be allowed to continue, no matter how much some people might want it to.


I agree, Bonnie, it was wrong and still is wrong. However this has been going on for years. Yes, even far left & liberal groups were targeted, too. I don't see this as a Rep/Dem fault. I see it as huge problem that needs to get fixed. I hope more heads will roll in the IRS over this.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not interested in moving money the money from wars to jobs and whatever else this organization proposes. Sequestration has already cut the military fundings drastically after huge prior cuts to their appropriations.
> 
> I'm interested in increasing jobs and funding for those who earn a living and to properly fund the military instead of denying them the weapons, equipment and health care they have already earned and require. I'm interested in shortening the orders for military members who are stretched too thin and are asked to defend America and its countrymen without this, first ever, Administration defending, equipping or supporting those who defend America.
> 
> I'm interested in decreasing the waste, fraud and abuse in government appropriation to green energy, superfluous committees and agencies, redundant government programs, food stamps, welfare and Medicaid abuse, abortion clinics, and any and all other abuses of taxpayer's funds.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

In regard to cutting waste, etc. I just read the news and discovered that Larry Connors a reporter with KMOV in MO. was just fired from his job after an interview he did with Bo the passer-by president, not the dog. (BTW, what kind of a narcisscist names his dog after himself? ) 

Any hoo, to my point Mr. Connors had the AUDACITY to ask Bo how he could justify all his and his family's fancy vacations when there are still people suffering from lack of employment and the horrible economy, etc. Bo the Bumbler didn't know how to answer....he just bumbled. And Larry got fired! So much for the 1st Amendment.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> In regard to cutting waste, etc. I just read the news and discovered that Larry Connors a reporter with KMOV in MO. was just fired from his job after an interview he did with Bo the passer-by president, not the dog. (BTW, what kind of a narcisscist names his dog after himself? )
> 
> Any hoo, to my point Mr. Connors had the AUDACITY to ask Bo how he could justify all his and his family's fancy vacations when there are still people suffering from lack of employment and the horrible economy, etc. Bo the Bumbler didn't know how to answer....he just bumbled. And Larry got fired! So much for the 1st Amendment.


Saw that. Here's the station's statement concerning the matter:

KMOV) -- We regret to announce that Larry Conners is no longer a KMOV news reporter. Larry was a valued member of KMOV for a long time, and we will miss him.
For KMOV, there is no higher cause than unbiased, objective news reporting. It is what our viewers expect and it is what we work very hard to deliver. We can accept no less. Larry is certainly entitled to his opinion, but taking a personal political position on one of the Stations Facebook pages creates an appearance of bias that is inconsistent with important journalistic standards. Larrys departure has nothing to do with the particular position he took, but it does have to do with our belief that his actions made it impossible for him to report for KMOV on certain political matters going forward without at least an appearance of bias. Bringing you accurate and unbiased reporting is the reason we exist.
Mark Pimentel
KMOV TV President & GM

Sounds reasonable to me. Would Fox News have to keep a journalist with leftist leanings?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> If Bush and/or Cheney had committed crimes, I'm sure the Democrats who hated them would have made it public. I don't remember hearings like those we're having now.
> 
> As for the IRS, you're pretty content with having them use their power to tax in order to punish those with certain political beliefs. What happens if a Republican is elected, the IRS attacks your groups and friends and even you? Would you be so content with it then? There are many Democrats who are also very disturbed about this.
> 
> It's wrong, and it's illegal. For those two reasons, it should not be allowed to continue, no matter how much some people might want it to.


I repeat, if there is criminal activity the people who took part should be punished. At this point I don't know if this is a screw-up or intentional. This should not continue, whatever the cause.
Agencies acting as non-profits and claiming tax-exempt status should ALL be investigated. After Citizens United went into effect there was an abundance of new applications for this status (501C4). Why do you think that occurred? Doesn't it upset you as a taxpayer that agencies listed as non-profits are accepting huge donations that are being used for political issues and candidates?

You don't think the Bish/Cheney duo lied while they were in office??


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here are my words: "I'm grateful for my Rights and Freedoms as an American citizen to disagree."
> 
> Alcameron, here are _your_ exact words.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Saw that. Here's the station's statement concerning the matter:
> 
> KMOV) -- We regret to announce that Larry Conners is no longer a KMOV news reporter. Larry was a valued member of KMOV for a long time, and we will miss him.
> For KMOV, there is no higher cause than unbiased, objective news reporting. It is what our viewers expect and it is what we work very hard to deliver. We can accept no less. Larry is certainly entitled to his opinion, but taking a personal political position on one of the Stations Facebook pages creates an appearance of bias that is inconsistent with important journalistic standards. Larrys departure has nothing to do with the particular position he took, but it does have to do with our belief that his actions made it impossible for him to report for KMOV on certain political matters going forward without at least an appearance of bias. Bringing you accurate and unbiased reporting is the reason we exist.
> ...


Doesn't sound at all reasonable for a reporter to ask a question that many people in the country are also asking. He's not the king....he's a servant of the people. Did you see the interview? Totally professional!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bydie said:


> (BTW, what kind of a narcisscist names his dog after himself? )


The Washington Post reported in its online editions Saturday night that Obama's daughters chose the name Bo for the pup because first lady Michelle Obama's father was nicknamed Diddley. The name for the dog was an apparent reference to the singer "Bo" Diddley


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree, Bonnie, it was wrong and still is wrong. However this has been going on for years. Yes, even far left & liberal groups were targeted, too. I don't see this as a Rep/Dem fault. I see it as huge problem that needs to get fixed. I hope more heads will roll in the IRS over this.


So do I.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Doesn't sound at all reasonable for a reporter to ask a question that many people in the country are also asking. He's not the king....he's a servant of the people.


No, he's a servant of the news agency. Some are liberal, some moderate, and others are at the right of the political spectrum. I certainly wouldn't expect an agency like Fox to keep a reporter with liberal leanings on the payroll, and the liberal agencies have the same right to pick and choose their staff.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> In regard to cutting waste, etc. I just read the news and discovered that Larry Connors a reporter with KMOV in MO. was just fired from his job after an interview he did with Bo the passer-by president, not the dog. (BTW, what kind of a narcisscist names his dog after himself? )
> 
> Any hoo, to my point Mr. Connors had the AUDACITY to ask Bo how he could justify all his and his family's fancy vacations when there are still people suffering from lack of employment and the horrible economy, etc. Bo the Bumbler didn't know how to answer....he just bumbled. And Larry got fired! So much for the 1st Amendment.


i wonder if he has any recourse.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Saw that. Here's the station's statement concerning the matter:
> 
> KMOV) -- We regret to announce that Larry Conners is no longer a KMOV news reporter. Larry was a valued member of KMOV for a long time, and we will miss him.
> For KMOV, there is no higher cause than unbiased, objective news reporting. It is what our viewers expect and it is what we work very hard to deliver. We can accept no less. Larry is certainly entitled to his opinion, but taking a personal political position on one of the Stations Facebook pages creates an appearance of bias that is inconsistent with important journalistic standards. Larrys departure has nothing to do with the particular position he took, but it does have to do with our belief that his actions made it impossible for him to report for KMOV on certain political matters going forward without at least an appearance of bias. Bringing you accurate and unbiased reporting is the reason we exist.
> ...


Fox News actually does have quite a few liberal journalists and commentators. It's been good because you get to see them hear their views - begin to understand a little better. Also, it makes for fewer hard feelings in some cases.

But I see what that editor means. There was a time when you couldn't even guess who the news anchors' political leanings. They reported it objectively. When I was in high school, I learned that was what a free press did.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, he's a servant of the news agency. Some are liberal, some moderate, and others are at the right of the political spectrum. I certainly wouldn't expect an agency like Fox to keep a reporter with liberal leanings on the payroll, and the liberal agencies have the same right to pick and choose their staff.


Fox News does have liberal journalists on the payroll. Interesting conversations and debates! I used to hate Bob Beckel when he was defending Clinton. He's on The Five, and I really like him now. He's been objective at times, and he seems like a nice man. Quite tender-hearted. He's the only liberal on the show with four conservatives. He's good-natured. You can tell they're all friends, and it's fun to watch. They kid around as much as they spar. Dana Perino (Bush's press sec.) and Bob Beckel have become good friends!! No kidding. A good lesson for us all. It's a very popular show. You might enjoy it. Believe me, Beckel can take up for you if you're a liberal!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You are well on your way to an extremist manifesto.


Surprising adjective from one who calls herself PeaceGoddess. There is nothing extreme or radical about my post, only generalities and principles acceptable to both sides.

President Obama, himself, has echoed the concerns I listed.

I'd thought you would recognized the difference and were interested in resolving problems and creating jobs and stopping the abuses costing the taxpayers' unnecessarily. I was wrong.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Fox News does have liberal journalists on the payroll. Interesting conversations and debates! I used to hate Bob Beckel when he was defending Clinton. He's on The Five, and I really like him now. He's been objective at times, and he seems like a nice man. Quite tender-hearted. He's the only liberal on the show with four conservatives. He's good-natured. You can tell they're all friends, and it's fun to watch. They kid around as much as they spar. Dana Perino (Bush's press sec.) and Bob Beckel have become good friends!! No kidding. A good lesson for us all. It's a very popular show. You might enjoy it. Believe me, Beckel can take up for you if you're a liberal!


I agree about Bob, bonbf, and I also like Juan Williams. And then there's Allen Combs. 
:roll:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi west coast kitty, you are spot on! Miranda rights are simply repeated to someone taken into custody to remind them they do not have an obligation to speak without legal representation AND if one speaks what is said with or without representation may be used in a court or law.
> 
> When someone invokes the 5th amendment, that person has knowledge that what he says would recognize a criminal offense and in stating such fact(s) would, in fact, incriminate the very person speaking; testify against yourself. Americans are protected from incriminating themselves in our Constitution.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks for the clarification. Canada has similar principles and I agree with those principles. But where people in a position of authority or trust face criminal allegations, there is usually a requirement that they step aside until the allegations are resolved. Is that handled differently in USA?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sounds reasonable to me. Would Fox News have to keep a journalist with leftist leanings?


To answer your question: since Fox News, has a multiple of journalists representing the "Left" on daily on the marjority of their news programs, I can safely assume Fox compensates them and "keeps" them. What an unusual question!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The Washington Post reported in its online editions Saturday night that Obama's daughters chose the name Bo for the pup because first lady Michelle Obama's father was nicknamed Diddley. The name for the dog was an apparent reference to the singer "Bo" Diddley


Thank you peace....I didn't know that. I take it back. :O)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Fox News does have liberal journalists on the payroll. Interesting conversations and debates! I used to hate Bob Beckel when he was defending Clinton. He's on The Five, and I really like him now. He's been objective at times, and he seems like a nice man. Quite tender-hearted. He's the only liberal on the show with four conservatives. He's good-natured. You can tell they're all friends, and it's fun to watch. They kid around as much as they spar. Dana Perino (Bush's press sec.) and Bob Beckel have become good friends!! No kidding. A good lesson for us all. It's a very popular show. You might enjoy it. Believe me, Beckel can take up for you if you're a liberal!


Actually I do listen to Fox Radio on a regular basis--my son adores it (go figure) and insists on tuning in on every afternoon on the way home from school. Since that's the 3:00 to 3:45 period I usually end up listening to the Sean Hannety (sp) program--a pretty uncomfortable experience for a liberal, but I have to admit the guy is pretty sharp. I keep waiting for some liberal to call in and flatten him out over the phone--hasn't happened yet, and I've been listening for months now.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> To answer your question: since Fox News, has a multiple of journalists representing the "Left" on daily on the marjority of their news casts, I can safely assume Fox compensates them and "keeps" them.


Yes--but only because they choose to. News stations can hire and fire at will, in most cases.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> i wonder if he has any recourse.


To Bydie:
I would say it's none of his business. The Obamas pay for their own vacations as we discussed last fall. 
Can you bring anything new to the table? This rehash of your blatant hate and disrespect for the President is old news. VERY old.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Did everyone who wanted it find the recipe for the cauliflower crust pizza? Has anyone tried it?


I found the one below. I don't know how good it is. If you google cauliflower crust pizza, you'll get this one, one from Paul Deen which I didn't read yet, and others. This one had step by step instructions with photos. Just scroll down a little.

http://www.theluckypennyblog.com/2013/02/the-best-cauliflower-crust-pizza.html


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I agree about Bob, bonbf, and I also like Juan Williams. And then there's Allen Combs.
> :roll:


I like Juan, too. He's always a gentleman and takes a lot of flack. When Allen Combs was with Hannity, he was a sweet guy. Now he's waaaaay extreme left.

Beckel was on O'Reilly tonight. O'Reilly said in a joking way, "When you come on here, you're befuddled." Beckel responded, "I'm not befuddled. You're a good interviewer, but you're not THAT good." Beckel smiled and Bill laughed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Alcameron:


> I posted the grateful and thankful sentences before I read anything posted by you. You've made this sound like give and take, which it was not.
> I can't even believe you're still stuck on this. Anal retentive?


I wrote I'm grateful on page 118 at 17:05:32.

You replied to me on page 118 at 17:26:21
AND replied again while chosing my words for me on page 118 at 17:30:30.

Where I went to school, both your posts came *after* mine.

I can't even believe you're stuck on the chronology.

Pathological Liar?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> In regard to cutting waste, etc. I just read the news and discovered that Larry Connors a reporter with KMOV in MO. was just fired from his job after an interview he did with Bo the passer-by president, not the dog. (BTW, what kind of a narcisscist names his dog after himself? )
> 
> Any hoo, to my point Mr. Connors had the AUDACITY to ask Bo how he could justify all his and his family's fancy vacations when there are still people suffering from lack of employment and the horrible economy, etc. Bo the Bumbler didn't know how to answer....he just bumbled. And Larry got fired! So much for the 1st Amendment.


Hadn't heard this, another injustice to attribute to the Obama Administration?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> To answer your question: since Fox News, has a multiple of journalists representing the "Left" on daily on the marjority of their news casts, I can safely assume Fox compensates them and "keeps" them. What an unusual question!


It seems that some of you haven't watched Fox yet. If you ever want to try it, here's my plug for Fox. I like it a lot - If you want real objective reporting, O'Reilly is good. He bent over backwards to support Obama in the first term. Lately, he's very concerned and frustrated. But I do think he tries very hard to be objective. Special Report at 6:00 EDT is also fair and balanced - has a panel representing both sides.

Hannity is far right and proud of it. Even a bit much for me - too opinionated for my taste, although I like the guy better than his show. He used to be on radio here in Atlanta.

My favorites of all are Greta (On the Record) at 10 pm and Megyn Kelly at 1:00. But -for pure entertainment and both libs and cons, you can't beat The Five. Funny! Very popular show.

Geezy-peezy - there I go rambling again. Sorry about that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Alcameron:
> 
> I wrote I'm grateful on page 118 at 17:05:32.
> 
> ...


Here we go again....................................


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Just another thought on tv and radio. In the morning, I like NPR on my clock radio. Have you ever noticed how quiet it is? My AM station always plays music while the people are talking, especially leadng in and out of shows. Drives me NUTS. NPR is calm. People speak in hushed tones about unusual things. Nice to wake up to.

And you thought I was a die-hard conservative, didn't you?!

I'd also give a movie review but - I hardly ever go to the movies. When I do, I'm as interested in the buttered popcorn as in the movie.


Books? Did you say you want books? just kidding - it's bedtime. Gonna curl up with the last chapter of a Robin Cook. It's fair, not great.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> There was a time when you couldn't even guess who the news anchors' political leanings. They reported it objectively. When I was in high school, I learned that was what a free press did.


You are correct, we're not to know the ideology of a news journalist. Today, we're hard pressed to get the news from the Main Stream Media. Journalism died years ago.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Enjoy the rest of your evening, Bonnie.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Surprising adjectives from one who calls herself PeaceGoddess. There is nothing extreme or radical about my post, only generalities and principles acceptable to both sides.
> 
> President Obama, himself, has echoed the concerns I listed.
> 
> I'd thought you would recognized the difference and were interested in resolving problems and creating jobs and stopping the abuses costing the taxpayers' unnecessarily. I was wrong.


I'm not interested in moving money the money from wars to jobs and whatever else this organization proposes. Sequestration has already cut the military fundings drastically after huge prior cuts to their appropriations.

I'm interested in increasing jobs and funding for those who earn a living and to properly fund the military instead of denying them the weapons, equipment and health care they have already earned and require. I'm interested in shortening the orders for military members who are stretched too thin and are asked to defend America and its countrymen without this, first ever, Administration defending, equipping or supporting those who defend America.

I'm interested in decreasing the waste, fraud and abuse in government appropriation to green energy, superfluous committees and agencies, redundant government programs, food stamps, welfare and Medicaid abuse, abortion clinics, and any and all other abuses of taxpayer's funds.

I pasted your words here so you can refer to them.

Anyone not willing to consider green job creation as creating worth while work for people is extreme.

Anyone who considers food stamps and aid to families with children an abuse of our system is extreme.

Government money does not fund abortions, there is money to clinics that provide abortions, but that money is restricted and no abuses of this have been found. The clinics use the government funds for birth control and health screening for women and even men in some instances. Anyone against that is extreme. Also anyone not understanding that an abortion is a woman's private, and difficult legal decision is extreme. But here I will grant you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you do support a woman's private choice.

Anyone not interested in moving money from wars to jobs is extreme.

I think you are a clever, but very extreme person and there are many like you here in the U S and such extreme views hinder any kind of progress in congress.

Also, just because the president voices something does not mean I agree with him. I consider him a centrist not even remotely close to my beliefs.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are correct, we're not to know the ideology of a news journalist. Today, we're hard pressed to get the news from the Main Stream Media. Journalism died years ago.


Yes, and we need it now.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here we go again....................................


Yep, better get out the oil can...the Tin Man seems to be having a rust attack.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> I agree about Bob, bonbf, and I also like Juan Williams. And then there's Allen Combs.
> :roll:


I like Bob and Juan and several others. I listen in wonder to Combs; I've yet to hear anything from him to sway my opinion to his or contribute anything worthy to the debate.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Again, alcameron, you do not speak for me. I said what I meant and meant what I said. I used the correct and appropriate word which was "grateful."
> 
> Perhaps you don't know the definition of that word? I looked it up for you:
> 
> ...


You madame are redundant and that means we can do just fine without you. You are even less entertaining than you were the first time around.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Enjoy the rest of your evening, Bonnie.


Thanks. Same to you, Patty.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Canada has similar principles and I agree with those principles. But where people in a position of authority or trust face criminal allegations, there is usually a requirement that they step aside until the allegations are resolved. Is that handled differently in USA?


Yes. In fact, there is questions today, about a women in a position of authority who both invoked her right to the 5th Amendment (excuse herself from self incrimination) AND gave testimony, under oath, with the pains and penalties of perjury if so charged. Yet, she refused to be questioned or answer questions after she swore to do so. (she exited the Congressional Hearing) Sigh ....

The only reason to do something like that IMHO is to protect herself from perjury and/or harm, or to force a criminal court testimony to get the truth out if she is innocent.

Our present Administration is in a state of extreme crisis and flux.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--but only because they choose to. News stations can hire and fire at will, in most cases.


I think I misread your question. No private org "has" to keep anyone; they can hire or fire at will.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yawn


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I got your back


Patty do you think one of your stilettos could crush a cockroach?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think I misread your question. No private org "has" to keep anyone; they can hire or fire at will.


That's what Susan said. Get more oil, Susan! Or maybe some extra straw?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It seems that some of you haven't watched Fox yet.


I've been watching Fox News for years. All the programs, at all times. I also listen to several non Fox radio programs as well.

You're assessment was Fair and Balanced! Ha!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty do you think one of your stilettos could crush a cockroach?


That's why I have them, Cheeky.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty do you think one of your stilettos could crush a cockroach?


Her stiletto would impale anything she stepped on.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've been watching Fox News for years. All the programs, at all times. I also listen to several non Fox radio programs as well.
> 
> You're assessment was Fair and Balanced! Ha!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's what Susan said. Get more oil, Susan! Or maybe some extra straw?


How about a can opener?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I do listen to Fox Radio on a regular basis--my son adores it (go figure) and insists on tuning in on every afternoon on the way home from school. Since that's the 3:00 to 3:45 period I usually end up listening to the Sean Hannety (sp) program--a pretty uncomfortable experience for a liberal, but I have to admit the guy is pretty sharp. I keep waiting for some liberal to call in and flatten him out over the phone--hasn't happened yet, and I've been listening for months now.


You are tough if you can take hannity. Don't worry about your son - it's just natural rebellion. He'll probably get over it. Did you ever watch - Family Ties, I think it was. With Michael J. Fox. The parents were free-thinking liberals - mom a traditional feminist (boy THAT's an oxymoron!). And Michael J. Fox was their button-down conservative briefcase-carrying kid. It was a great show. Had to be with Michael J. Fox in it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's why I have them, Cheeky.


I know you are quick on your feet and there are a few of them that wandered in from another thread so do your happy dance on them when you see them. Shouldn't be too hard they are kind of slow. :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You are tough if you can take hannity. Don't worry about your son - it's just natural rebellion. He'll probably get over it. Did you ever watch - Family Ties, I think it was. With Michael J. Fox. The parents were free-thinking liberals - mom a traditional feminist (boy THAT's an oxymoron!). And Michael J. Fox was their button-down conservative briefcase-carrying kid. It was a great show. Had to be with Michael J. Fox in it.


Loved that show. But impossible for me to watch the reruns now--can't help think about the Parkinson's just waiting around the corner.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bonie,
I have to admit that I have tried to sit through Hannity, but never made the whole show. However I am the same with Chris Matthews. I can't stand him. I don't know why he bothers having guests on as he never gives them a chance to speak or answer his questions.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not interested in moving money the money from wars to jobs and whatever else this organization proposes. Sequestration has already cut the military fundings drastically after huge prior cuts to their appropriations.
> 
> I'm interested in increasing jobs and funding for those who earn a living and to properly fund the military instead of denying them the weapons, equipment and health care they have already earned and require. I'm interested in shortening the orders for military members who are stretched too thin and are asked to defend America and its countrymen without this, first ever, Administration defending, equipping or supporting those who defend America.
> 
> I'm interested in decreasing the waste, fraud and abuse in government appropriation to green energy, superfluous committees and agencies, redundant government programs, food stamps, welfare and Medicaid abuse, abortion clinics, and any and all other abuses of taxpayer's funds.


Nobody is interested in what you are interested in. You are just pullin' a Palin. Typical of your ilk.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Anyone not willing to consider green job creation as creating worth while work for people is extreme.
> 
> >>>>>>> I NEVER said I'm not wanting to create jobs. In fact, I said exactly the opposite. Every one, I'll repeat, EVERY ONE of the 'green' energy jobs created or funded by the American taxpayer's has failed. Did I mention EVERY one? That is extreme denial for you to not acknowledge the fraud, waste and abuse. If a private person wishes to spend his money on creating green, or any job for any color energy, that is his perogative, not mine nor yours.
> 
> ...


Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or completely opposing thoughts to mine worthy of my time.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nobody is interested in what you are interested in. You are just pullin' a Palin. Typical of your ilk.


Or elk. Isn't bagging them Sarah Palin's hobby? Maybe this is one of her runaway bulls.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Or elk. Isn't bagging them Sarah Palin's hobby? Maybe this is one of her runaway bulls.


and they are dropping some big smelly ones tonight. Must have had some of Byrd ladies pizza.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or complete opposing thoughts worthy of my time.


Don't flatter yourself. You are just an air quote and nothing more.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Alcameron:
> 
> I wrote I'm grateful on page 118 at 17:05:32.
> 
> ...


Contrary to your opinion, chronology doesn't mean that I actually read everything you posted before I Wrote anything. I was running in and out all day today. And I have no reason to lie to someone like you.
Not that I have to answer to you. I hope you're going to school and not teaching at it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or complete opposing thoughts worthy of my time.


What? I think you need to adjust your antlers--you're coming in kind of fuzzy.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or complete opposing thoughts worthy of my time.


Don't waste your time. You've given us yet another example of your arrogant, patronizing, condescending attitude.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What? I think you need to adjust your antlers--you're coming in kind of fuzzy.


I think they're feelers, not antlers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What kind of feelers?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think they're feelers, not antlers.


Then Patty should be able to take of it--she's packing her stilettos tonight. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Contrary to your opinion, chronology doesn't mean that I actually read everything you posted before I Wrote anything. I was running in and out all day today. And I have no reason to lie to someone like you.
> Not that I have to answer to you. I hope you're going to school and not teaching at it.


Pardon me. You are telepathic, then, as you were able to specify, acknowledge, repeat and correct my words without first reading them.

An amazing gift you have, dear.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What kind of feelers?


Need some backup?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Need some backup?


Got the Orkin man here.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Pardon me. You are telepathic, then, as you were able to specify, acknowledge, repeat and correct my words without first reading them.
> 
> An amazing gift you have, dear.


Yes, she truly is amazing!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Need some backup?


LOl!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nobody is interested in what you are interested in.


Wonder why, then, you read enough of my posts to block quote me yet you are not able to control yourself but to comment regularly.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Pardon me. You are telepathic, then, as you were able to specify, acknowledge, repeat and correct my words without first reading them.
> 
> An amazing gift you have, dear.


Your friends in Ravelry are looking for you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wonder why, then, you read enough of my posts that you are not able to control yourself but to comment regularly.


Same old Cherf, grandmaollie, Sharkey, etc..


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Don't waste your time. You've given us yet another example of your arrogant, patronizing, condescending attitude.


For the final time, I have no desire to hear your advice. Your comments to me have been only arrogant, evil and frankly, boring.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> For the final time, I have no desire to hear your advice. Your comments to me have been only arrogant, evil and frankly, boring.


Well, if the shoe fits....


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, if the shoe fits....


Drop it! Squish, crunch.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Evil she says. Hmmmmm. We remember when your posts were not so nice either.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or completely opposing thoughts to mine worthy of my time.


You do a masterly job of double speak.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

All this violent talk about killing, spraying, stomping on fellow KP'rs is even low for you dems. Oh that is right you are trying to find common ground, so you attack someone that disagrees with you. Classy


QUESTION, "Sounds reasonable to me. Would Fox News have to keep a journalist with leftist leanings? " 

ANSWER, not only do they keep them they hire them after being fired from NPR. Don't always agree with Juan Williams, but his treatment from NPR was disgraceful. He was in tears over his firing, and proud that Fox hired him for his opinions and insight


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So crawl back under the rock you came from. Your 'thoughts' are not worthy of my time. What goes round....



knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you for a topical discussion. There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or completely opposing thoughts to mine worthy of my time.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Gotta love the dems

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/blum.asp

And Dame, that was an uncalled for remark in my humble opinion. So much for finding common ground.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Offtoknit,

I cannot believe how they are so rude and mean and angry. I think they are set in stone this way. So terrible.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Who are you trying to talk about now?



Lukelucy said:


> Offtoknit,
> 
> I cannot believe how they are so rude and mean and angry. I think they are set in stone this way. So terrible.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> All this violent talk about killing, spraying, stomping on fellow KP'rs is even low for you dems. Oh that is right you are trying to find common ground, so you attack someone that disagrees with you. Classy


Well, maybe you'd prefer to deal with the moose/Tin Man/roach yourself.

"There are not many on this thread able to engage in conversation with some or completely opposing thoughts to mine worthy of my time."

What the heck does that mean? I hope someone has access to a universal translator--it appears the newest member of the thread was spliced together in a laboratory.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Loved that show. But impossible for me to watch the reruns now--can't help think about the Parkinson's just waiting around the corner.


I know what you mean.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonie,
> I have to admit that I have tried to sit through Hannity, but never made the whole show. However I am the same with Chris Matthews. I can't stand him. I don't know why he bothers having guests on as he never gives them a chance to speak or answer his questions.


Well, at least you tried. I don't know what happened to Chris Matthews. I used to like him. That was before we all became so divided politically. Then Fox came on the air and I started watching them.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

This was on Fox the other day. I thought it was so funny. Maybe you will, too. I will take out any political implications.

Martha McCallum said, "If you were a Martian coming here and you saw some of what's going on, that would certainly raise some antennas."

Does that strike anyone else as funny? I was near hysterical. I think she meant it would raise red flags, but since they were Martians, well...........................

My apologies to any Martians reading this post.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> This was on Fox the other day. I thought it was so funny. Maybe you will, too. I will take out any political implications.
> 
> Martha McCallum said, "If you were a Martian coming here and you saw some of what's going on, that would certainly raise some antennas."
> 
> ...


No apologies necessary--I'm sure both the left and the right would agree with the Martians' assessment!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Off2knit,

It is a lost cause. This person is sick. You cannot reason with her. Sick beyond repair.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No apologies necessary--I'm sure both the left and the right would agree with the Martians' assessment!


That's for sure!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Off2knit,
> 
> It is a lost cause. This person is sick. You cannot reason with her. Sick beyond repair.


Sounds like someone's whirling her propellers for takeoff. Don't forget to count to ten before opening the bay doors.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

CIA FBI


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> CIA FBI


Is FBI in Obama's pocket?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> All this violent talk about killing, spraying, stomping on fellow KP'rs is even low for you dems. Oh that is right you are trying to find common ground, so you attack someone that disagrees with you. Classy
> 
> QUESTION, "Sounds reasonable to me. Would Fox News have to keep a journalist with leftist leanings? "
> 
> ANSWER, not only do they keep them they hire them after being fired from NPR. Don't always agree with Juan Williams, but his treatment from NPR was disgraceful. He was in tears over his firing, and proud that Fox hired him for his opinions and insight


You are being rather mellodramatic.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> All this violent talk about killing, spraying, stomping on fellow KP'rs is even low for you dems. Oh that is right you are trying to find common ground, so you attack someone that disagrees with you. Classy
> 
> QUESTION, "Sounds reasonable to me. Would Fox News have to keep a journalist with leftist leanings? "
> 
> ANSWER, not only do they keep them they hire them after being fired from NPR. Don't always agree with Juan Williams, but his treatment from NPR was disgraceful. He was in tears over his firing, and proud that Fox hired him for his opinions and insight


I agree with you. Juan was treated horribly by NPR. He does a terrific job on Fox.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Offtoknit,
> 
> I cannot believe how they are so rude and mean and angry. I think they are set in stone this way. So terrible.


I've gotten such a warm welcome here from many that I now understand are far left of center! 

Great way to get others to think like them, huh?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've gotten such a warm welcome here from many that I now understand are far left of center!
> 
> Great way to get others to think like them, huh?


Do not worry about that there are many people who read this site, and am sure they have an opinion of what they are saying, and doing and sure they do not like what the other side has posted. :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree with you. Juan was treated horribly by NPR. He does a terrific job on Fox.


 :thumbup:


----------



## MissNettie (Dec 15, 2012)

I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

MissNettie said:


> I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


Miss Nettie,I can not remember any more who started site. The reason you see a quote at the beginning of this is because the site gets so long that Administration closes it after a 100 or so pages, then starts it again at the last post. I hope this helps you.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

MissNettie said:


> I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


Admin breaks the topic up after 100 pages and this is #11 of this topic so you have more than 1000 pages if you go back to the beginning. You can search for the topic in General Chit Chat if you want the complete listing


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Admin breaks the topic up after 100 pages and this is #11 of this topic so you have more than 1000 pages if you go back to the beginning. You can search for the topic in General Chit Chat if you want the complete listing


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks I forgot that you can go back and check.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MissNettie said:


> I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


When the thread gets too long, Admin starts a new thread. As you can see above this is "Smoking and Obamacare #11, so this thread has been reformed for the eleventh time


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MissNettie said:


> I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


As I too started late in the thread I found there are numerous "chapters" for lack of a better word. I do not know if it is possible to access those chapters, but you can get the general drift here. We mimic congress in obfuscating the problem by bickering back and forth which results in no solution to the problems. We can agree on the agony of folks hurt in natural disasters, but when it comes to hot button social issues we generally part down partisan party political lines and hurl subtle and not so subtle insults to one another's beliefs. It gets the blood moving in the morning and I, for one, get to quote what people said to my friend and we have a relaxing laugh in the evening. It is not for the faint of heart.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Lukelucy, you are so right about her being a lost cause. All I can do is picture her with one of those propeller hats on her head, holding a pinwheel and moving around singing , "I've got a new pair of roller skates, you have the key..."


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks I forgot that you can go back and check.


Thanks, Yarnie. I didn't know you could go back and check out the beginnings of any topic.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why off2knit? I was simply answering knitpresentgifts (??) in kind? Sound different 2 u? Maybe you might ask yourself why?



off2knit said:


> Gotta love the dems
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/blum.asp
> 
> And Dame, that was an uncalled for remark in my humble opinion. So much for finding common ground.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interior monologue?



Lukelucy said:


> Off2knit,
> 
> It is a lost cause. This person is sick. You cannot reason with her. Sick beyond repair.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ABC XYZ.



theyarnlady said:


> CIA FBI


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When the pages get over 100, the Admin numbers the thread (For example, Smoking and Obamacare #8.) and continues on Smoking and Obamacare #9.

Send me a PM if you have more questions. Tell me what your interests are. There are other interesting threads. Welcome to you....don't bother with trying to read it all. The rest of your life could be spent more constructively.



MissNettie said:


> I just opened this thread and cannot get the beginning. I would not want to read the whole thing, but I would like to see who started it and the first message. Why does it start in the middle? It says page 1 but the first message I get is somebody quoting a message and replying to it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've gotten such a warm welcome here from many that I now understand are far left of center!
> 
> Great way to get others to think like them, huh?


Yes. We will never even listen to one another's point of view unless they're civil to us. Otherwise, we (meaning human beings) just dig our feet in.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> :thumbup:


I agree - he does a great job. And he's always polite and friendly.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh no I hear the SOS for 10 dem sentars.. Poor Franken and Schumer


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh no I hear the SOS for 10 dem sentars.. Poor Franken and Schumer


Will you please elaborate on this Bumpkins?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If this is what you were referring to, here is a link to the letter that they wrote to the IRS.

http://nomorecocktails.com/post/2013/05/18/Chuck-Schumer-Al-Franken-urged-IRS-to-target-Tea-Party-groups.aspx


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are being rather mellodramatic.


Patty - I think someone may have taken a few too many steroids. They seem to be pumped up with testosterone and certainly not acting at all like a lady.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> More on the story
> I know more trivia
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-white-house-claim-of-doctored-e-mails-to-smear-the-president/2013/05/20/a23343b6-c19e-11e2-8bd8-2788030e6b44_blog.html
> 
> ...


This is the exact thing the low information voters cling to. If the gov't says it true, it must be. Proof is not needed. They just don't realize it's the gov't covering up their mistakes.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> soloway this is so yesterday's news. It has been brought up over and over again and already discussed. Can't you come up with something new?


You don't like me. Boo Hoo, sob, sob.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This is the exact thing the low information voters cling to. If the gov't says it true, it must be. Proof is not needed. They just don't realize it's the gov't covering up their mistakes.


Yes solowey, it's always a conspiracy. Geez


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't like me. Boo Hoo, sob, sob.


Do you need a bottle and a nap, solowey?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I hope someday Bush and Cheney will be tried for war crimes. I mourn the loss of the thousands of lives on 9/11 because of their ineptitude and thousands of lost lives in the wars they dragged us into for nothing. Once those terrible sins have been paid for we can take up the alleged wrong doing of the Obama administration and if there is punishment due then let those who are guilty be punished. How can people carry on about the four lives lost in Benghazi when no one has paid for the thousands of lives lost under Bush/Cheney's regime of terror? Please someone answer, why? How can you not see the injustice that they have perpetrated against our country?


This too is so yesterday's news and brought up over and over again. You need to find something else to discuss. You sound like a broken record/CD.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Saw that. Here's the station's statement concerning the matter:
> 
> KMOV) -- We regret to announce that Larry Conners is no longer a KMOV news reporter. Larry was a valued member of KMOV for a long time, and we will miss him.
> For KMOV, there is no higher cause than unbiased, objective news reporting. It is what our viewers expect and it is what we work very hard to deliver. We can accept no less. Larry is certainly entitled to his opinion, but taking a personal political position on one of the Stations Facebook pages creates an appearance of bias that is inconsistent with important journalistic standards. Larrys departure has nothing to do with the particular position he took, but it does have to do with our belief that his actions made it impossible for him to report for KMOV on certain political matters going forward without at least an appearance of bias. Bringing you accurate and unbiased reporting is the reason we exist.
> ...


It reads like the station is covering its a$$. Yes, Fox News has a number of liberal/democratic journalists and contributors that are allowed to have a different point of view than that of the owners. Fox News does believe in the 1st Amendment, KMOV TV not so much.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This too is so yesterday's news and brought up over and over again. You need to find something else to discuss. You sound like a broken record/CD.


Solowey thinks it's OK to kill thousands of our own people both civilians and military and thousands more innocent people in the middle east by waging wars that were started by lies made up by the Bush administration. Where are your values? I guess anyone who thinks that way must not know the value of life. You are barreling down a one way road the wrong way and you don't even know it. I feel very sorry for you and a little angry that you value all those lives so little. It is very sad that 4 people lost their lives in Africa but for you and others to keep dragging them out over and over again is disgusting. I mourn all that have died and for you on the right to select a few for your own hateful purposes you should be ashamed. I won't expect to see this emotion from you as I doubt you are capable of showing it. It is not worth discussing anything with someone who is so cold and uninformed.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky blah blah blah....................you are so boringly repetitive. Have you nothing new in your playbook other than Bush bashing? I blame it on the past administration.............oh that's right it was Obama

And, why mourn for people that die, your heroine believed in no God or afterlife, so what would be the point?

I mourn for the time I will miss them here on earth, but know we will be reunited forever in Heaven.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Her stiletto would impale anything she stepped on.


Quick Cheeky, lay down and demonstrate.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Cheeky blah blah blah....................you are so boringly repetitive. Have you nothing new in your playbook other than Bush bashing? I blame it on the past administration.............oh that's right it was Obama
> 
> And, why mourn for people that die, your heroine believed in no God or afterlife, so what would be the point?
> 
> I mourn for the time I will miss them here on earth, but know we will be reunited forever in Heaven.


Ignore, just a bump in the road.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Quick Cheeky, lay down and demonstrate.


Hey that would be fun to watch................
I'll bring the popcorn and sweet tea


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Quick Cheeky, lay down and demonstrate.


Oh here's another bump in the road. Why you laying down there in the ditch with offherrocker? Got no sense, I guess! :-D


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Solowey thinks it's OK to kill thousands of our own people both civilians and military and thousands more innocent people in the middle east by waging wars that were started by lies made up by the Bush administration. Where are your values? I guess anyone who thinks that way must not know the value of life. You are barreling down a one way road the wrong way and you don't even know it. I feel very sorry for you and a little angry that you value all those lives so little. It is very sad that 4 people lost their lives in Africa but for you and others to keep dragging them out over and over again is disgusting. I mourn all that have died and for you on the right to select a few for your own hateful purposes you should be ashamed. I won't expect to see this emotion from you as I doubt you are capable of showing it. It is not worth discussing anything with someone who is so cold and uninformed.


Nice speech if one believes that you mean even a word of it.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Hey that would be fun to watch................
> I'll bring the popcorn and sweet tea


Since this might be more fun than a human being should be allowed to watch, I'll also bring M & M's


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> And, why mourn for people that die, your heroine believed in no God or afterlife, so what would be the point?
> 
> I mourn for the time I will miss them here on earth, but know we will be reunited forever in Heaven.


.... and all _God's_ people said Amen.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Since this might be more fun than a human being should be allowed to watch, I'll also bring M & M's


The only downside would be the stilettos would be ruined. Oh the sacrifices that must be made.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> The only downside would be the stilettos would be ruined. Oh the sacrifices that must be made.


Maybe we could set up a charity, for donations for heel replacements. I'll contact the IRS


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh here's another bump in the road. Why you laying down there in the ditch with offherrocker? Got no sense, I guess! :-D


Or...well, I dare not say it. Knowing Offknit as I do it's probably her version of a panty raid. Everyone put a lock around their undies.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The only downside would be the stilettos would be ruined. Oh the sacrifices that must be made.


Not surprised...you GOP ladies are hard enough to split diamonds. Must be all the testosterone.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

<<<<<,whispering to Solow.....>>>>>>

Do you think she has a sexual dysfunction? All this underwear and hormone talk is getting creepy


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Leave my stilettos out of this.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Leave my stilettos out of this.


Yes, better get out the disinfectant!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Don't go there, off2knit. I have all of your posts relating to sex with women, etc.



off2knit said:


> <<<<<,whispering to Solow.....>>>>>>
> 
> Do you think she has a sexual dysfunction? All this underwear and hormone talk is getting creepy


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Maybe we could set up a charity, for donations for heel replacements. I'll contact the IRS


Maybe we should research sites for cool heels


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh yeah, the lady on Rav with the cankles sporting feathers on her shoes would be a good one to go to.
They seem to know all of the rage in the entire world.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't go there, off2knit. I have all of your posts relating to sex with women, etc.


Wow you really are stalking me, or have undying love of my words. Wish I had that much time on my hand too


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

PS Bratty: Now that I think about it, you are giving me the creeps with all this stalking. Gross


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> PS Bratty: Now that I think about it, you are giving me the creeps with all this stalking. Gross


I don't know the history between you two, but it seems to me those heels weren't made for walking and do a lot more of kicking if you know what I mean.

Wouldn't catch me walking all over the American flag either.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> PS Bratty: Now that I think about it, you are giving me the creeps with all this stalking. Gross


But if you look at it, that may be why she like to stand up for the IRS ect. Even the President sends his people out to do that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow you really are stalking me, or have undying love of my words. Wish I had that much time on my hand too


Don't flatter yourself. You are not my type. However your posts are archived right here on KP. And if anyone has a sexual problem it's you and your posts prove it.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

What type of dysfunction might this be?


West Point Sergeant Accused of Videotaping Female Cadets in Shower

A sergeant at West Point Military Academy has become the latest Army official to be charged for sexual misconduct. Sergeant Michael McClendon is accused of committing indecent acts, reportedly for videotaping female cadets in the shower. His case follows recent sex-related allegations against three separate military officials. All three served formal roles in the militarys effort to prevent sexual harassment and assault.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> But if you look at it, that may be why she like to stand up for the IRS ect. Even the President sends his people out to do that.


Once again, you make no sense.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh yeah, the lady on Rav with the cankles sporting feathers on her shoes would be a good one to go to.
> They seem to know all of the rage in the entire world.


Patty don't get too close to them, don't want to pick up any of those communicable diseases they carry. Hard to say how many disgusting places they have "rested in". Disinfect your heels if you stomped on any of them. Oh my they are ugly little creatures. Hard to even look at them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know the history between you two, but it seems to me those heels weren't made for walking and do a lot more of kicking if you know what I mean.
> 
> Wouldn't catch me walking all over the American flag either.


Are you blind or just ignorant? The flag is not on the bottom of the shoes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What type of dysfunction might this be?


Anthony Weiner and his "parts" scandal.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/23/anthony-weiner-new-york-mayor-campaign-scandal/2354263/

Shall we play tit-for-tat? I'd prefer reasonable debate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Anthony Weiner and his "parts" scandal.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/23/anthony-weiner-new-york-mayor-campaign-scandal/2354263/
> 
> Shall we play tit-for-tat? I'd prefer reasonable debate.


He may have shown some parts, but he never stole from the people of his state as did Sanford. He is a scuzzball, never the less.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't flatter yourself. You are not my type. However your posts are archived right here on KP. And if anyone has a sexual problem it's you and your posts prove it.


I don't have to flatter myself, you stalking appears to be all the flattery that I need.

Just wish I had the time to read old posts, extract some out of text and then spend the time posting. In fact, I am beginning to feel threatened. Please stop bullying me with your threats.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Shall we play tit-for-tat?


Why not? But I doubt you can keep up-- just one good burst of rain will lock up your joints, Tin Man. Is your oil can filled?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I don't have to flatter myself, you stalking appears to be all the flattery that I need.
> 
> Just wish I had the time to read old posts, extract some out of text and then spend the time posting. In fact, I am beginning to feel threatened. Please stop bullying me with your threats.


FBI CIA


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Anthony Weiner and his "parts" scandal.
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/23/anthony-weiner-new-york-mayor-campaign-scandal/2354263/
> 
> Shall we play tit-for-tat? I'd prefer reasonable debate.


He is a sleeze bag isn't he! How disgusting are all of these guys? I have never understood the whole rape, harassment, exposing oneself thing. Anyone have insight?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> He is a sleeze bag isn't he! How disgusting are all of these guys? I have never understood the whole rape, harassment, exposing oneself thing. Anyone have insight?[/q


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Solowey thinks it's OK to kill thousands of our own people both civilians and military and thousands more innocent people in the middle east by waging wars that were started by lies made up by the Bush administration. Where are your values? I guess anyone who thinks that way must not know the value of life. You are barreling down a one way road the wrong way and you don't even know it. I feel very sorry for you and a little angry that you value all those lives so little. It is very sad that 4 people lost their lives in Africa but for you and others to keep dragging them out over and over again is disgusting. I mourn all that have died and for you on the right to select a few for your own hateful purposes you should be ashamed. I won't expect to see this emotion from you as I doubt you are capable of showing it. It is not worth discussing anything with someone who is so cold and uninformed.


Post interrupted - complete post below. By the way, I didn't bring up Benghazi.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I don't have to flatter myself, you stalking appears to be all the flattery that I need.
> 
> Just wish I had the time to read old posts, extract some out of text and then spend the time posting. In fact, I am beginning to feel threatened. Please stop bullying me with your threats.


Oh here goes the drama queen, again.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here we go again, Benghazi round 10005.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> Like Presidents before him, Bush honored and mourned the soldiers who died. He still to this day honors the vets, especially the wounded, with activities for them at his home. He did not take it lightly.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Nope not so - check the suicide rate.


Isn't it nice to know that soldiers don't have to speak for themselves anymore? We have a "new" member of KP who thinks he can speak for all of them. Maybe in World War 11
that attitude may have been true. Many were drafted during the Viet Nam war who wanted nothing to do with a war that did not threaten our liberty or nation during that time. They
didn't die defending America, they died in vain fighting sombody else's civil war.
Many thought Iraq would be an in and out "Mission Accomplished" as Bush stated foolishly and falsley. Many more died for an outrageous lie.
PTS has caused many to commit suicide, and many seeking psychiatric help that they can't always get.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Frankly I think the real tragedy of Benghazi is that a relatively straight-forward matter of security was twisted by both parties into a political issue--even before the first shot was fired. Congressional Republicans cut security funding before the attack--why? Did they honestly feel it wasn't necessary, or were they simply playing hardball with the Administration? Stevens turned down two offers of additional security...did he think it wasn't necessary, or was he afraid that accepting more would somehow besmirch Obama's record on terror?
There are a million points like these to consider, but with every new partisan investigation the smoke grows thicker. I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of it, and in the meantime those who wish our nation ill take full advantage of the infighting and polarization to cause even more havoc.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Please read Charlene lamb's testimony before the senate. Security was not denied because of budget cuts. She was asked point blank about it and she and another person said budget cuts were not the issue. 

From the New York Times
Charlene Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary in the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, said at the hearing that a request from Mr. Nordstrom to extend the military team was only a recommendation and that the State Department had been right not to heed it. Ms. Lamb also testified that budget considerations played no part in considering additional security. Decisions on diplomatic security went no higher than Ms. Lamb and, in limited cases, Mr. Kennedy, officials said.

Why ambassador Stevens turned down requests in the beginning , i don't know.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why not? But I doubt you can keep up-- just one good burst of rain will lock up your joints, Tin Man. Is your oil can filled?


You are sane? BTW: I have been blessed with an abundance of wealth, namely oil, thank you for asking.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I think the real tragedy of Benghazi is that a relatively straight-forward matter of security was twisted by both parties into a political issue--even before the first shot was fired. Congressional Republicans cut security funding before the attack--why? Did they honestly feel it wasn't necessary, or were they simply playing hardball with the Administration? Stevens turned down two offers of additional security...did he think it wasn't necessary, or was he afraid that accepting more would somehow besmirch Obama's record on terror?
> There are a million points like these to consider, but with every new partisan investigation the smoke grows thicker. I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of it, and in the meantime those who wish our nation will take full advantage of the infighting and polarization to cause even more havoc.


Read several articles regarding security in Benghazi. The article from the Huffington Post did not substantiate your claim.

The funds cut had absolutely no affect with the Benghazi terrorist attacks: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/12/are-budget-cuts-to-blame-for-benghazi-attack-as-biden-suggested.html

And if there is smoke clouding the issue, then why is


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> He is a sleeze bag isn't he! How disgusting are all of these guys? I have never understood the whole rape, harassment, exposing oneself thing. Anyone have insight?


Do you know any red-blooded American men? Since you've questioned this behavior, guess I have my answer.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I think the real tragedy of Benghazi is that a relatively straight-forward matter of security was twisted by both parties into a political issue--even before the first shot was fired. Congressional Republicans cut security funding before the attack--why? Did they honestly feel it wasn't necessary, or were they simply playing hardball with the Administration? Stevens turned down two offers of additional security...did he think it wasn't necessary, or was he afraid that accepting more would somehow besmirch Obama's record on terror?
> There are a million points like these to consider, but with every new partisan investigation the smoke grows thicker. I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of it, and in the meantime those who wish our nation ill take full advantage of the infighting and polarization to cause even more havoc.


The Huffington Post did not support your about Stevens turning down additional security. Funding cuts did not affect the security of the embassy:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/12/are-budget-cuts-to-blame-for-benghazi-attack-as-biden-suggested.html

If there is smoke clouding the issue, then why not release all the paper, emails, phone records, visits.........regarding the issue? Give a transparent accounting, evaluate the facts, and live with the conclusions. Very simple.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> The Huffington Post did not support your about Stevens turning down additional security. Funding cuts did not affect the security of the embassy:
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/12/are-budget-cuts-to-blame-for-benghazi-attack-as-biden-suggested.html
> 
> If there is smoke clouding the issue, then why not release all the paper, emails, phone records, visits.........regarding the issue? Give a transparent accounting, evaluate the facts, and live with the conclusions. Very simple.


The CIA will never give that info up. Some things are covert for a reason. The emails have been released. Twice.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Read several articles regarding security in Benghazi. The article from the Huffington Post did not substantiate your claim.
> 
> The funds cut had absolutely no affect with the Benghazi terrorist attacks: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/12/are-budget-cuts-to-blame-for-benghazi-attack-as-biden-suggested.html
> 
> And if there is smoke clouding the issue, then why is


You and sjrNC prove my point--how digging and investigating did it take to establish this relatively simple fact? And do both sides accept it even now? Probably not.
There did seem to be a time when the Democratics and the Republicans felt that the opposing party was working for what they felt was in the best interests of the nation--even if they heartily disagreed with how they chose to go about it. Not anymore--those days are long gone. Every action, every statement, every word is scrutinized for hidden meanings and agendas--and in the meantime the country's real business goes unattended.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

You might have had a point Susan, but here is the rub, there are just so many other scandals, IRS, AP. So on it's own maybe I could see your point of view, but with the other ones on the burner it just is too much to ignore.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Susan, Charlene lamb testified at senate hearing which I did watch so I remember her answering that question. 
It didn't take much digging. 

Depends on your side if you accept the answer to the question.

Yes budgets have been cut, but it is not fair to blame all wrongs on budget cuts.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I think the real tragedy of Benghazi is that a relatively straight-forward matter of security was twisted by both parties into a political issue--even before the first shot was fired. Congressional Republicans cut security funding before the attack--why? Did they honestly feel it wasn't necessary, or were they simply playing hardball with the Administration? Stevens turned down two offers of additional security...did he think it wasn't necessary, or was he afraid that accepting more would somehow besmirch Obama's record on terror?
> There are a million points like these to consider, but with every new partisan investigation the smoke grows thicker. I doubt we'll ever get to the bottom of it, and in the meantime those who wish our nation ill take full advantage of the infighting and polarization to cause even more havoc.


I agree that our polarization encourages those who wish us ill. I wish we could fix it. What will it take to bring us together: an attack on our homeland? a pandemic that we all have to fight to survive? Do we really need a common enemy to get along with each other? Maybe our common enemy should be - divisiveness itself. ??


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are sane? BTW: I have been blessed with an abundance of wealth, namely oil, thank you for asking.


Oil? Good for you!!! I'm all for our great natural resource - oil - for lots of reasons. Here's one.

My son-in-law is a chemical engineer for a major oil company. When they lived in San Francisco, moms on the playground told off my daughter because she also is a chemical engineer and because her husband works for Chevron. Friendly California wasn't so good for them. They're not there any more, but he's still working hard to provide the fuel we need and want. Go, Matt!

By the way - they're very environmentally conscientious, recycle more than anyone else in the family, run, eat right, gave us a bunch of grandkids, and do all those good things. Oil companies and their employees are largely misunderstood.

If you're interested, John Stossel has a show on Fox talking about why what we pay for oil is actually cheap considering what it takes to produce it - and it's less per ounce than the bottled water the gas station sells. Who knew?!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Oil? Good for you!!! I'm all for our great natural resource - oil - for lots of reasons. Here's one.
> 
> My son-in-law is a chemical engineer for a major oil company. When they lived in San Francisco, moms on the playground told off my daughter because she also is a chemical engineer and because her husband works for Chevron. Friendly California wasn't so good for them. They're not there any more, but he's still working hard to provide the fuel we need and want. Go, Matt!
> 
> ...


Not sure what a bunch means to you, but all the recycling, running, and eating right does not equal what reducing the number of children a couple has.

The Best Way You Can Go Green: Have Fewer Children

Mat McDermott

Forget changing your lightbulbs, driving a car with high fuel efficiency, adopting a vegetarian diet or even switching to green power. If you live in the United States and really want to reduce your carbon emission legacy, perhaps the single largest change you can make to your life is commit to have fewer children. That's the word coming from LiveScience: Each Child Increases Your Carbon Legacy 5.7 TimesLiveScience cites a study from statisticians at Oregon State University which shows that in the United States each child ultimately adds about 9,400 metric tons of carbon emissions to the average parent's carbon legacy -- about 5.7 times the average US resident's emissions over their lifetime.

Each Chinese Child Has One-Fifth the Impact as US ChildFor sake of comparison, researchers found that the long-term impact of a child born in China has only one-fifth the environmental impact as a baby born in the United States.

Ecological & Carbon Footprint Differences Tell the TaleUltimately that comes straight down to resource consumption: While the average per capita carbon emissions in the United States are up around 20 metric tons per person, in China that's about 1.3 tons per person.

It terms of ecological footprint, Footprint Network says that US resource consumption requires about 9.5 global hectares per person, while China's use of natural resources requires slightly over 2 hectares per person -- which is just what the globe can support. The global average is 2.7 global hectares per person -- in other words, we're overshooting global biocapacity by an increasing amount.

Population Growth, Resource Consumption a Big ProblemResearcher Paul Murtaugh said,

In discussions about climate change, we tend to focus on the carbon emissions of an individual over his of her lifetime. Those are important issues and it's essential that they should be considered. But an additional challenge facing us is continuing population growth and increasing global consumption of resources.
More: LiveScience Population GrowthWhen Population Growth and Resource Availability CollidePopulation Growth, Resource Over-Consumption at Center of 'Looming Catastrophe', Stanford Biologists ClaimBrits Break Silence on Population-Climate Change Links

Tags: Carbon Emissions | Environmental Footprint | Global Climate Change | Global Warming Causes


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If there is smoke clouding the issue, then why not release all the paper, emails, phone records, visits.........regarding the issue? Give a transparent accounting, evaluate the facts, and live with the conclusions. Very simple.


Not really--because both Parties can look at the same documents, as in the first batch of emails, and come to very different conclusions.

I think what worries me most is that the flap over Obama and his policies it's so split among Party lines: the conservatives see him as a fake and a fraud, and the Democrats are equally convinced that their beloved President is being railroaded out of office. How is it possible for two groups of people who are really not all that different to see things in such a disparate way?

Someone (Bonnie?) mentioned what a trying time the end of Nixon's Presidency was. I was too young at the time to be aware of that, but in retrospect I can't help thinking that Americans had it easy then. Nixon's crimes were horrendous, but at least pretty much everyone agreed that the man had to go. Both political Parties were certain of that fact--if not, things would have been much much worse.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Oil? Good for you!!! I'm all for our great natural resource - oil - for lots of reasons. Here's one.
> 
> My son-in-law is a chemical engineer for a major oil company. When they lived in San Francisco, moms on the playground told off my daughter because she also is a chemical engineer and because her husband works for Chevron. Friendly California wasn't so good for them. They're not there any more, but he's still working hard to provide the fuel we need and want. Go, Matt!
> 
> ...


This might explain a bit of why people in the SF Bay area do not understand chemical engineers.

TCSB draft report says neglect led to Chevron Richmond refinery fire
04/29/2013
By Nick Snow 
Washington Editor

A failure to apply an inherently safer design, identify and evaluate damage mechanism hazards, and use effective safeguards led to an Aug. 6, 2012, pipe rupture and vapor release that ignited and shut down the No. 4 crude oil unit at Chevron USA Inc.'s Richmond, Calif., refinery, the US Chemical Safety Board said in a draft report.
Investigators found that Chevron did not apply inherently safer design principles and upgrade piping in the unit over 10 years, leading to extreme corrosion that ultimately made the pipe rupture and release a vapor cloud that ultimately caught fire, endangering 19 workers who had narrowly escaped moments earlier, CSB said.
"Chevron failed to replace critical sections of piping in the crude oil unit over a 10-year period," CSB Chairman Rafael Moure-Eraso told reporters at an Apr. 15 briefing in the Northern California community. "This incident would not have occurred if it had followed its own internal regulations to implement improved technology."
If Chevron had done this, or if government regulators had required it to implement safer technology, it would have upgraded critical crude unit sidecut piping years ago from carbon steel to metallurgy more resistant to sulfidation corrosion, the draft report said. Such a material upgrade could have prevented the accident, it added.
"Chevron had resources, time, and technical expertise to know the risk. However, there was no effective intervention before an accident could occur," Moure-Eraso said. "Make no mistake: The ultimate issue is not corrosion, but how to make effective corporate decisions. Regulators also need effective tools and resources to encourage companies to make the right choices."
The CSB draft report said that even when rebuilding the crude oil unit after the August 2012 release and fire, Chevron did not install what the CSB considers inherently safer stainless steel piping in the destroyed distillation tower, choosing instead, with no documented inherently safer technology review, an alloy called 9-Chrome that is more corrosion-resistant than carbon steel but less resistant than stainless


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Bonnie I doubt if we'll ever know. Regarding every issue o claims ignorance. He only finds out about our concerns when we do. He only hears about things thru the media when we hear about them.

Either he's lying or incompetent. And does not and never did have the right stuff to be presidential. We'll just have to suffer thru it and pray he can't do too much destruction.



 bonbf3 said:


> I know. It's very frustrating. We need to know what's going on.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree that our polarization encourages those who wish us ill. I wish we could fix it. What will it take to bring us together: an attack on our homeland? a pandemic that we all have to fight to survive? Do we really need a common enemy to get along with each other? Maybe our common enemy should be - divisiveness itself. ??


Let's hope not , Bonnie.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Journalism school faculty are 80%+ leaning left. And vote demo. True journalism is dead and I doubt if there is any resuscitation that will bring them back to life. Schools have vulgar imbalance.



bonbf3 said:


> Yes, and we need it now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Please read Charlene lamb's testimony before the senate. Security was not denied because of budget cuts. She was asked point blank about it and she and another person said budget cuts were not the issue.
> 
> From the New York Times
> Charlene Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary in the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, said at the hearing that a request from Mr. Nordstrom to extend the military team was only a recommendation and that the State Department had been right not to heed it. Ms. Lamb also testified that budget considerations played no part in considering additional security. Decisions on diplomatic security went no higher than Ms. Lamb and, in limited cases, Mr. Kennedy, officials said.
> ...


That is a puzzling thought, sirNJ. If he indeed did turn down requests in the beginning, then why all the blame on congress, State Dept and the White House? Could it have been a bad call on his part? What are your thoughts, sirNJ?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> He is a sleeze bag isn't he! How disgusting are all of these guys? I have never understood the whole rape, harassment, exposing oneself thing. Anyone have insight?


Men who do this stuff are sleazy. I feel especially sorry for their families. Wiener has a lot of nerve even trying to run again for anything and it is amazing that people voted Sanford in. I guess the GOP condones this kind of behavior from men. They do have the get out of hell free card so no problem.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Journalism school faculty are 80%+ leaning left. And vote demo. True journalism is dead and I doubt if there is any resuscitation that will bring them back to life. Schools have vulgar imbalance.


Sad but true. The only thing today is that it is apparent that the Obama Administration has targeted Conservative journalist, and that has all of them upset. Let's face it, when the IRS targets Billy Graham, what has our government become? That is why I do not do anything that is a questionable deduction. I pay my taxes quarterly and on time. I donate to my church, Wounded Warriors and a few more when there are natural disasters. I also have a very very good CPA do them. So if I get audited, I will have nothing to worry about. But then again, who knows with all the threats by some women here to call the FBI and CIA on the Conservatives here, who knows.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Men who do this stuff are sleazy. I feel especially sorry for their families. Wiener has a lot of nerve even trying to run again for anything and it is amazing that people voted Sanford in. I guess the GOP condones this kind of behavior from men. They do have the get out of hell free card so no problem.


That statement is so unfair, but typical. How dare you assume that any of us condone his behavior? Did you ask? No you just do your normal blanket mud slinging assault on all conservatives. I for one, would not have voted for him because he betrayed a trust that could never be repaired. And his behavior in my opinion shows a lack of character that I do not condone or ever will condone or support.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> The Huffington Post did not support your about Stevens turning down additional security. Funding cuts did not affect the security of the embassy:
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/12/are-budget-cuts-to-blame-for-benghazi-attack-as-biden-suggested.html
> 
> If there is smoke clouding the issue, then why not release all the paper, emails, phone records, visits.........regarding the issue? Give a transparent accounting, evaluate the facts, and live with the conclusions. Very simple.


Susan as usual she cannot even read a news article and get it correct. She has a bad case of selectivitis. I just have to laugh at people who can't even comprehend something as black and white as news print. Oh well, consider the source. Just another bump in the road. Talk about simple, she would know.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Off2Knit: The Huffington Post did not support your about Stevens turning down additional security.

I'm not quite sure what the Huffington Post is or isn't claiming, but according to Army General Carter Ham he did offer Stevens more security--twice. Why would he lie?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> That statement is so unfair, but typical. How dare you assume that any of us condone his behavior? Did you ask? No you just do your normal blanket mud slinging assault on all conservatives. I for one, would not have voted for him because he betrayed a trust that could never be repaired. And his behavior in my opinion shows a lack of character that I do not condone or ever will condone or support.


I don't like it either. Dem or Repub doing it. I agree with you!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> That statement is so unfair, but typical. How dare you assume that any of us condone his behavior? Did you ask? No you just do your normal blanket mud slinging assault on all conservatives. I for one, would not have voted for him because he betrayed a trust that could never be repaired. And his behavior in my opinion shows a lack of character that I do not condone or ever will condone or support.


Oh, you poor little mudslinger shoo and get back to your little pile of dirt. How dare you come out here and throw mud at everyone. You can add a little water to your dirt pile and continue the mud slinging where you won't hit anyone else. What a lack of character, oh I guess you don't even have character do you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Off2Knit: The Huffington Post did not support your about Stevens turning down additional security.
> 
> I'm not quite sure what the Huffington Post is or isn't claiming, but according to Army General Carter Ham he did offer Stevens more security--twice. Why would he lie?


Susan in my observation of this person it seems because she makes bold face lies on a daily basis with no facts to support her she just assumes that other people behave as she does, ergo the man lies. Every thing is black and white unless you need to give it that little twist to serve your own agenda. She likes to throw mud pies too so duck if she turns towards you. Other than that she's harmless.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That is a puzzling thought, sirNJ. If he indeed did turn down requests in the beginning, then why all the blame on congress, State Dept and the White House? Could it have been a bad call on his part? What are your thoughts, sirNJ?


Did he turn it down or not and when is another question. 
I honestly don't know, will have to read more on it, but if ms lamb denied it, someone had to request it. Seems like something was talked about that the Libyans taking on more of it.

Seems everyone wants to blame someone instead of taking responsibility. Now so many stories are out there who know what the truth is. Say something enough times whether true or not someone just might believe it is true.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Sad but true. The only thing today is that it is apparent that the Obama Administration has targeted Conservative journalist, and that has all of them upset. Let's face it, when the IRS targets Billy Graham, what has our government become? That is why I do not do anything that is a questionable deduction. I pay my taxes quarterly and on time. I donate to my church, Wounded Warriors and a few more when there are natural disasters. I also have a very very good CPA do them. So if I get audited, I will have nothing to worry about. But then again, who knows with all the threats by some women here to call the FBI and CIA on the Conservatives here, who knows.


Blah blah blah blah. Spit it out off. Express yourself. Beware IRS, FBI CIA and Interpol are all after you. Be afraid be very afriad. Yikes!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Did he turn it down or not and when is another question.
> I honestly don't know, will have to read more on it, but if ms lamb denied it, someone had to request it. Seems like something was talked about that the Libyans taking on more of it.
> 
> Seems everyone wants to blame someone instead of taking responsibility. Now so many stories are out there who know what the truth is. Say something enough times whether true or not someone just might believe it is true.


I agree with your last sentence. I am trying to do some reading and research myself on that particular point. Thanks for responding.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't like it either. Dem or Repub doing it. I agree with you!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Did he turn it down or not and when is another question.
> I honestly don't know, will have to read more on it, but if ms lamb denied it, someone had to request it. Seems like something was talked about that the Libyans taking on more of it.
> 
> Seems everyone wants to blame someone instead of taking responsibility. Now so many stories are out there who know what the truth is. Say something enough times whether true or not someone just might believe it is true.


Actually, a nice exchange of ideas. I thank you both for restoring a little island of sanity to the inmates of bedlam.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Did he turn it down or not and when is another question.
> I honestly don't know, will have to read more on it, but if ms lamb denied it, someone had to request it. Seems like something was talked about that the Libyans taking on more of it.
> 
> Seems everyone wants to blame someone instead of taking responsibility. Now so many stories are out there who know what the truth is. Say something enough times whether true or not someone just might believe it is true.


True enough, but as far as Benghazi goes the conservatives have been putting in a lot of overtime at the smoke machines themselves. Q: Did Stevens turn down extra security? A: Maybe, not really sure. Q: Who doctored those transcripts? A: Maybe an aide--not really sure etc etc.

I said it once before, but it bears repeating: if Benghazi was such an open and shut case, why did the GOP need to doctor the facts?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What type of dysfunction might this be?
> 
> West Point Sergeant Accused of Videotaping Female Cadets in Shower
> 
> A sergeant at West Point Military Academy has become the latest Army official to be charged for sexual misconduct. Sergeant Michael McClendon is accused of committing indecent acts, reportedly for videotaping female cadets in the shower. His case follows recent sex-related allegations against three separate military officials. All three served formal roles in the militarys effort to prevent sexual harassment and assault.


And now his career is ruined. He knew better.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Isn't it nice to know that soldiers don't have to speak for themselves anymore? We have a "new" member of KP who thinks he can speak for all of them. Maybe in World War 11
> that attitude may have been true. Many were drafted during the Viet Nam war who wanted nothing to do with a war that did not threaten our liberty or nation during that time. They
> didn't die defending America, they died in vain fighting sombody else's civil war.
> Many thought Iraq would be an in and out "Mission Accomplished" as Bush stated foolishly and falsley. Many more died for an outrageous lie.
> PTS has caused many to commit suicide, and many seeking psychiatric help that they can't always get.


And some commit suicide because after 2-3 tours in Iran and Afghanistan, they cannot bear to go back. A good friend is a counselor at Fort Hood and my brother-in-law is a flight surgeon at Fort Rucker. Both have attended several special classes to learn to deal with this issue because it is prevalent. More than the public knows.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Please read Charlene lamb's testimony before the senate. Security was not denied because of budget cuts. She was asked point blank about it and she and another person said budget cuts were not the issue.
> 
> From the New York Times
> Charlene Lamb, a deputy assistant secretary in the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, said at the hearing that a request from Mr. Nordstrom to extend the military team was only a recommendation and that the State Department had been right not to heed it. Ms. Lamb also testified that budget considerations played no part in considering additional security. Decisions on diplomatic security went no higher than Ms. Lamb and, in limited cases, Mr. Kennedy, officials said.
> ...


Correct - nobody knows but him and he is not alive to say why. When you are not there - it's hard to know what occurred.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you know any red-blooded American men? Since you've questioned this behavior, guess I have my answer.


What is your point about red-blooded American men? They like this stuff? Surely that is not what you are implying.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> The CIA will never give that info up. Some things are covert for a reason. The emails have been released. Twice.


And they don't need to. Why don't we question "suicide missions"?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree that our polarization encourages those who wish us ill. I wish we could fix it. What will it take to bring us together: an attack on our homeland? a pandemic that we all have to fight to survive? Do we really need a common enemy to get along with each other? Maybe our common enemy should be - divisiveness itself. ??


Respect for a difference of opinion and respect for the other person's point of view. Agree to disagree and learn to discuss nicely. Fairly simple. Good question - thanks for asking.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Just heard that the Boy Scouts voted to lift the ban on gay Scouts. It's about time!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just heard that the Boy Scouts voted to lift the ban on gay Scouts. It's about time!


Woo hoo!!! Thank you BSA for realizing that all children have value. It's a great day!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I just found out this evening that this weekend is the 3rd annual Wounded Warriors Weekend at the Bush household. He and the vets will bike - can't remember - a lot of miles together!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> That statement is so unfair, but typical. How dare you assume that any of us condone his behavior? Did you ask? No you just do your normal blanket mud slinging assault on all conservatives. I for one, would not have voted for him because he betrayed a trust that could never be repaired. And his behavior in my opinion shows a lack of character that I do not condone or ever will condone or support.


Off2knit -- I agree with you on both Wiener and Sanford.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Woo hoo!!! Thank you BSA for realizing that all children have value. It's a great day!


It's another great day in America!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> True enough, but as far as Benghazi goes the conservatives have been putting in a lot of overtime at the smoke machines themselves. Q: Did Stevens turn down extra security? A: Maybe, not really sure. Q: Who doctored those transcripts? A: Maybe an aide--not really sure etc etc.
> 
> I said it once before, but it bears repeating: if Benghazi was such an open and shut case, why did the GOP need to doctor the facts?


I've never heard anything about Chris Stevens turning down help. He requested it, then made a call saying, "We're under attack." That was the last he call he made, from what I've heard.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> True enough, but as far as Benghazi goes the conservatives have been putting in a lot of overtime at the smoke machines themselves. Q: Did Stevens turn down extra security? A: Maybe, not really sure. Q: Who doctored those transcripts? A: Maybe an aide--not really sure etc etc.
> 
> I said it once before, but it bears repeating: if Benghazi was such an open and shut case, why did the GOP need to doctor the facts?


They doctored the facts?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I think with good genes.... have as many children as you can take care of...physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, lovingly and every other LY. Those children not so fortunate are going to need all these children to provide for their needs.

Do you have a number in mind for number of children a couple should have?

I believe what they are doing is very responsible. I believe that someone should take on the packaging of products to reduce the amount of waste. And the catalogues. Last week I had two grocery bags full of unsolicited mail for our recycling.



peacegoddess said:


> Not sure what a bunch means to you, but all the recycling, running, and eating right does not equal what reducing the number of children a couple has.
> 
> The Best Way You Can Go Green: Have Fewer Children
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Both of my boys were in scouts. I would think twice about putting them in scouts now.
> 
> As far as their sexuality, since the boys are all under 18 there should be no exhibition of either homo or hetero in any part of scouting. They just need to be boys learning to be men.
> 
> There was a report as many as 400,000 boys will leave scouting since this has passed.


Kids are a lot more tolerant of other kid's differences. They could teach adults a thing or two about acceptance and tolerance.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Respect for a difference of opinion and respect for the other person's point of view. Agree to disagree and learn to discuss nicely. Fairly simple. Good question - thanks for asking.


You're welcome. And there's no reason we can't do that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never heard anything about Chris Stevens turning down help.  He requested it, then made a call saying, "We're under attack." That was the last he call he made, from what I've heard.


But there was mention of the other, too. Who knows?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You hear what you want to hear and you see what you want to see. Anyone for body language???



susanmos2000 said:


> Not really--because both Parties can look at the same documents, as in the first batch of emails, and come to very different conclusions.
> 
> I think what worries me most is that the flap over Obama and his policies it's so split among Party lines: the conservatives see him as a fake and a fraud, and the Democrats are equally convinced that their beloved President is being railroaded out of office. How is it possible for two groups of people who are really not all that different to see things in such a disparate way?
> 
> Someone (Bonnie?) mentioned what a trying time the end of Nixon's Presidency was. I was too young at the time to be aware of that, but in retrospect I can't help thinking that Americans had it easy then. Nixon's crimes were horrendous, but at least pretty much everyone agreed that the man had to go. Both political Parties were certain of that fact--if not, things would have been much much worse.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You hear what you want to hear and you see what you want to see. Anyone for body language???



susanmos2000 said:


> Not really--because both Parties can look at the same documents, as in the first batch of emails, and come to very different conclusions.
> 
> I think what worries me most is that the flap over Obama and his policies it's so split among Party lines: the conservatives see him as a fake and a fraud, and the Democrats are equally convinced that their beloved President is being railroaded out of office. How is it possible for two groups of people who are really not all that different to see things in such a disparate way?
> 
> Someone (Bonnie?) mentioned what a trying time the end of Nixon's Presidency was. I was too young at the time to be aware of that, but in retrospect I can't help thinking that Americans had it easy then. Nixon's crimes were horrendous, but at least pretty much everyone agreed that the man had to go. Both political Parties were certain of that fact--if not, things would have been much much worse.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You hear what you want to hear and you see what you want to see. Anyone for body language???


I hear what is reported and I read what is printed fro several sources. What's your point?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never heard anything about Chris Stevens turning down help. He requested it, then made a call saying, "We're under attack." That was the last he call he made, from what I've heard.


This is what McClatchydc.com had to say:

The deteriorating security situation in Benghazi had been the subject of a meeting that embassy officials held Aug. 15, where they concluded they could not defend the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi. The next day, the embassy drafted a cable outlining the dire circumstances and saying it would spell out what it needed in a separate cable.

In light of the uncertain security environment, US Mission Benghazi will submit specific requests to US Embassy Tripoli for additional physical security upgrades and staffing needs by separate cover, said the cable, which was first reported by Fox News.

Army Gen. Carter Ham, then the head of the U.S. Africa Command, did not wait for the separate cable, however. Instead, after reading the Aug. 16 cable, Ham phoned Stevens and asked if the embassy needed a special security team from the U.S. military. Stevens told Ham it did not, the officials said.

Weeks later, Stevens traveled to Germany for an already scheduled meeting with Ham at AFRICOM headquarters. During that meeting, Ham again offered additional military assets, and Stevens again said no, the two officials said.

No one seems to know why Stevens refused the extra security, but I have serious doubts that an army general would lie.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not sure what a bunch means to you, but all the recycling, running, and eating right does not equal what reducing the number of children a couple has.
> 
> The Best Way You Can Go Green: Have Fewer Children
> 
> ...


Dame: Please forgive me. I thought you posted that.

I should have known it was the self-proclaimed Peace Goddess, stirring up trouble.

PeaceGoddess:

How rude of you. How absolutely rude.

I shall try to match your rudeness, although it's tough.

Stuff it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Pssst Bonnie, that wasn't Dame.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Both of my boys were in scouts. I would think twice about putting them in scouts now.


Why? I doubt gay-ness would rub off on them, like the cooties. And I don't think the fact of being gay makes grown men any less worthy of respect than heterosexuals.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's another great day in America!


All children have value, of course. Sexual orientation shouldn't even be a factor in the Boy Scouts. This shouldn't even come up. Good grief.

Sadly, someone who was working to get gay boys in Scouts said this is just the beginning. Now that disappoints me. Can't we be happy with one victory before planning to fight for another?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Pssst Bonnie, that wasn't Dame.


I think I missed something. What was wrong with PeaceGoddess' post?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> All children have value. Sexual orientation shouldn't even be a factor in the Boy Scouts. Good grief.


I agree! It took them long enough to realize that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think I missed something. What was wrong with PeaceGoddess' post?


I didn't read it, but Dame got the brunt of it.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Oil? Good for you!!! I'm all for our great natural resource - oil - for lots of reasons. Here's one.
> 
> My son-in-law is a chemical engineer for a major oil company. When they lived in San Francisco, moms on the playground told off my daughter because she also is a chemical engineer and because her husband works for Chevron. Friendly California wasn't so good for them. They're not there any more, but he's still working hard to provide the fuel we need and want. Go, Matt!
> 
> ...


Good for you Bonnie! I agree that some people find it easier to blame oil for environmental issues than deal with the real issues. A lot of people don't realize that the energy cost of creating biofuel is greater than creating the same amount of fuel from oil (not to mention the higher costs for people and animals dependent on corn for food). Alternate energy such as solar, wind, tidal, geothermal are all great complementary sources of energy but are not efficient or effective on a large scale


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Pssst Bonnie, that wasn't Dame.


Thank you, Patty. I corrected it. I read it wrong. I'm glad you caught that!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Good for you Bonnie! I agree that some people find it easier to blame oil for environmental issues than deal with the real issues. A lot of people don't realize that the energy cost of creating biofuel is greater than creating the same amount of fuel from oil (not to mention the higher costs for people and animals dependent on corn for food). Alternate energy such as solar, wind, tidal, geothermal are all great complementary sources of energy but are not efficient or effective on a large scale


But it helps !


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I didn't read it, but Dame got the brunt of it.


(scratching head) ???????


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> (scratching head) ???????


Bonnie blamed Dame for the post that somebody else wrote. Dame isn't online tonight. I'm sure it was an honest mistake.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Both of my boys were in scouts. I would think twice about putting them in scouts now.
> 
> As far as their sexuality, since the boys are all under 18 there should be no exhibition of either homo or hetero in any part of scouting. They just need to be boys learning to be men.
> 
> There was a report as many as 400,000 boys will leave scouting since this has passed.


That's sad. I guess the parents passed along the trait of non-acceptance of others who may be different from you.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I just found out this evening that this weekend is the 3rd annual Wounded Warriors Weekend at the Bush household. He and the vets will bike - can't remember - a lot of miles together!


That's awesome - a group I belong to has adopted a wounded warrior and we have had 3 fundraisers to remodel a home for his family.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think I missed something. What was wrong with PeaceGoddess' post?


I thought Damemary wrote it, so I addressed my deliberately rude comment to her by mistake. Thank goodness, Bratty Patty let me know. Almost funny, in a way. Here I make my strong statement and then..........psssst - wrong person. Oops. Sort of like storming out of the house to drive off in a huff and realizing you have to go back in for your car keys. I'm doomed to never be taken seriously.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie blamed Dame for the post that somebody else wrote. Dame isn't online tonight. I'm sure it was an honest mistake.


Still don't get...read the post about having fewer kids. One may agree or disagree, but how is it rude?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never heard anything about Chris Stevens turning down help. He requested it, then made a call saying, "We're under attack." That was the last he call he made, from what I've heard.


There was another report from General (?) Ham and I think it was posted several pages back.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I think with good genes.... have as many children as you can take care of...physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, lovingly and every other LY. Those children not so fortunate are going to need all these children to provide for their needs.
> 
> Do you have a number in mind for number of children a couple should have?
> 
> I believe what they are doing is very responsible. I believe that someone should take on the packaging of products to reduce the amount of waste. And the catalogues. Last week I had two grocery bags full of unsolicited mail for our recycling.


'

Thank you, RUKnitting. You're right, they are very responsible.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Kids are a lot more tolerant of other kid's differences. They could teach adults a thing or two about acceptance and tolerance.


AMEN to that!!!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> That's awesome - a group I belong to has adopted a wounded warrior and we have had 3 fundraisers to remodel a home for his family.


100 km--yikes. I hope they pack plenty of Advil--that's a long haul on a bicycle.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I thought Damemary wrote it, so I addressed my deliberately rude comment to her by mistake. Thank goodness, Bratty Patty let me know. Almost funny, in a way. Here I make my strong statement and then..........psssst - wrong person. Oops. Sort of like storming out of the house to drive off in a huff and realizing you have to go back in for your car keys. I'm doomed to never be taken seriously.


Happens to all of us, Bonnie.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

My point is that just like psychological studies where subjects were shown the same pictures and other studies involving auditory stimulus. Subjects interpretation of what they saw or heard will be totally different.

A similar situation occurs when you watch a senate hearing and then listen to the nightly news tell you what you saw and you wonder were you watching the same thing??

Has that never happened to you?



BrattyPatty said:


> I hear what is reported and I read what is printed fro several sources. What's your point?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Good for you Bonnie! I agree that some people find it easier to blame oil for environmental issues than deal with the real issues. A lot of people don't realize that the energy cost of creating biofuel is greater than creating the same amount of fuel from oil (not to mention the higher costs for people and animals dependent on corn for food). Alternate energy such as solar, wind, tidal, geothermal are all great complementary sources of energy but are not efficient or effective on a large scale


You're right. That's the whole problem. Solar is great - but it costs so much to convert energy from the sun into usable fuel that it's prohibitive. Probably why Solyndra went under.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> All children have value, of course. Sexual orientation shouldn't even be a factor in the Boy Scouts. This shouldn't even come up. Good grief.
> 
> Sadly, someone who was working to get gay boys in Scouts said this is just the beginning. Now that disappoints me. Can't we be happy with one victory before planning to fight for another?


I have a difficult time believing that, as an example, a child of 9 understands that he is gay. Or that any of the other children he/she may affiliate with understand that he/she is gay. He/she is a child - that's all. And I truly believe that God loves them all unequivocally.

I do agree - baby steps lead to success better than leaps.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I didn't read it, but Dame got the brunt of it.


Well, I hope she didn't really receive the brunt of it. You caught it right away, and I corrected it right away. Thanks again for that.

Peace Goddess was telling me that what my children did for the environment wasn't nearly as effective as if they "reduced the number of children they had." How she expects them to reduce the number when the children are already here is a problem. Besides, that's totally none of her business and she was out of line. I thought it was extremely rude. I told you all I could be a B, and I was - I was extremely rude back.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I thought Damemary wrote it, so I addressed my deliberately rude comment to her by mistake. Thank goodness, Bratty Patty let me know. Almost funny, in a way. Here I make my strong statement and then..........psssst - wrong person. Oops. Sort of like storming out of the house to drive off in a huff and realizing you have to go back in for your car keys. I'm doomed to never be taken seriously.


Not at all. I for one enjoy reading your posts.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Not at all. I for one enjoy reading your posts.


Thank you, GW!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> My point is that just like psychological studies where subjects were shown the same pictures and other studies involving auditory stimulus. Subjects interpretation of what they saw or heard will be totally different.
> 
> A similar situation occurs when you watch a senate hearing and then listen to the nightly news tell you what you saw and you wonder were you watching the same thing??
> 
> Has that never happened to you?


Yes, in fact in a seminar today, we watched a short video and it was interesting that we were so focused on one thing, that we totally missed 2 things that occurred on the video. When we were told about it and the video played back, we saw what we missed and we were all amazed!!! I'll find the website if anyone is interested.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It goes against the Boy Scout code, "Morally straight." If it doesn't stand for something, it stands for nothing.


Then I guess it stands for nothing now. Morally straight - I wonder what that defines.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, I hope she didn't really receive the brunt of it. You caught it right away, and I corrected it right away. Thanks again for that.
> 
> Peace Goddess was telling me that what my children did for the environment wasn't nearly as effective as if they "reduced the number of children they had." How she expects them to reduce the number when the children are already here is a problem. Besides, that's totally none of her business and she was out of line. I thought it was extremely rude. I told you all I could be a B, and I was - I was extremely rude back.


She isn't online, what she doesn't know......


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Then I guess it stands for nothing now. Morally straight - I wonder what that defines.


I doubt that at the time the rules were written, straight didn't mean heterosexual. I see it as being a good citizen.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie blamed Dame for the post that somebody else wrote. Dame isn't online tonight. I'm sure it was an honest mistake.


It sure was! And thank you for helping me out, Patty!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> That's awesome - a group I belong to has adopted a wounded warrior and we have had 3 fundraisers to remodel a home for his family.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I doubt that at the time the rules were written, straight didn't mean heterosexual. I see as it being a good citizen.


As do I...I doubt it was written to define sexual orientation at that time. I am just glad clearer hearts and minds prevailed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It sure was! And thank you for helping me out, Patty!


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Still don't get...read the post about having fewer kids. One may agree or disagree, but how is it rude?


It was rude because she was talking about my daughter and her family. You'd have to read my post. I didn't like her criticizing my daughter for having a big family, which is a great source of love and joy for us.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then I suggest you research and find what the Boy Scouts stood for.


I don't need to or care to - they obviously realized that their code is outdated and discriminatory.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> As do I...I doubt it was written to define sexually orientation at that time. I just glad clearer hearts and minds prevailed.


You should see the rainbow flags hanging in downtown Minneapolis after the freedom to marry bill was passed. I tried to save the pic from facebook , but to no avail.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It goes against the Boy Scout code, "Morally straight." If it doesn't stand for something, it stands for nothing.


Well, but that's saying the being gay is immoral. People can argue whether acting on those feelings is moral or not, but being attracted to one's own sex isn't something a person can change. My church (Catholic) teaches that people are born with either heterosexual or homosexual tendencies, and it's not something that anyone needs to feel ashamed of.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I have a difficult time believing that, as an example, a child of 9 understands that he is gay. Or that any of the other children he/she may affiliate with understand that he/she is gay. He/she is a child - that's all. And I truly believe that God loves them all unequivocally.
> 
> I do agree - baby steps lead to success better than leaps.


That's how I feel, too. Let's leave all sexuality out of Scouting.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You should see the rainbow flags hanging in downtown Minneapolis after the freedom to marry bill was passed. I tried to save the pic from facebook , but to no avail.


Wish I could - it would make me proud to be an American!!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Yes, in fact in a seminar today, we watched a short video and it was interesting that we were so focused on one thing, that we totally missed 2 things that occurred on the video. When we were told about it and the video played back, we saw what we missed and we were all amazed!!! I'll find the website if anyone is interested.


It's been done as a classroom activity, too. The kids get to see how observant they really are.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Since the boy scouts started as a Christian organization, and the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, it would mean only heterosexuality is moral.


So??? I don't care.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> But it helps !


Yes it does and with the exception of biofuel should be encouraged. We actually get some of our power from small windmill blades mounted on the barn & garage


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She isn't online, what she doesn't know......


She knows now - I sent her a PM to apologize. How do I get into these messes?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It's been done as a classroom activity, too. The kids get to see how observant they really are.


Was it the invisible gorilla video? I thought I was being so clever paying attention and then whammy, I missed the point? It was a good object lesson.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> My point is that just like psychological studies where subjects were shown the same pictures and other studies involving auditory stimulus. Subjects interpretation of what they saw or heard will be totally different.
> 
> A similar situation occurs when you watch a senate hearing and then listen to the nightly news tell you what you saw and you wonder were you watching the same thing??
> 
> Has that never happened to you?


I'm sure that's happened to everyone, which is why eyewitness testimony is considered so unreliable. But the conservatives are affected by this too--when they talk about the altered emails and General Ham's offer of extra security, their "hmmm's" and "I'm not sure's" sound awfully familiar.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> As do I...I doubt it was written to define sexual orientation at that time. I am just glad clearer hearts and minds prevailed.


I agree. Back in those days people didn't flaunt their sexuality - which way they went with it.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> She knows now - I sent her a PM to apologize. How do I get into these messes?


Just like the rest of us - quit smacking yourself!!! It's okay! You're okay!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

My bedtime - and I hope we can leave early tomorrow since it will be a 3 day weekend. So looking forward to an extra day off from work!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It was rude because she was talking about my daughter and her family. You'd have to read my post. I didn't like her criticizing my daughter for having a big family, which is a great source of love and joy for us.


Oh, OK. Well of course that's not her or anyone else's business--especially (as you pointed out) as the kids are already here!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd say that scouting is about wholesome kid activities - learning to make things, to cope in the outdoors, etc. It's not about get hot and steamy with anybody. In fact, I think parents hope this will keep their minds OFF the hot and steamy for a few more years.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I will agree with you on that. Since the boys are under 18, they should not be claiming to be one or the other. They have other things to be concerned with. Like learning how to survive in the wilds if necessary.
> 
> It should be the "don't tell" policy.


Then why is it such an issue for you?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, but that's saying the being gay is immoral. People can argue whether acting on those feelings is moral or not, but being attracted to one's own sex isn't something a person can change. My church (Catholic) teaches that people are born with either heterosexual or homosexual tendencies, and it's not something that anyone needs to feel ashamed of.


That's right. The Catholic church has a ministry for those who are trying to figure out their orientation or deciding how to live with a different sexual orientation than most.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Just like the rest of us - quit smacking yourself!!! It's okay! You're okay!


Thanks, GW! You're a great counselor, and I appreciate it. Hope you don't charge too much!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since the boy scouts started as a Christian organization, and the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, it would mean only heterosexuality is moral.


It also says in the Bible that I can sell my youngest daughter into slavery. Leviticus 21:7

People who work on the Sabbath can be put to death EX 35:2

Touching the skin of a pig is unclean Lev 11:7 (there goes Monday nite Football)

A farmer can be stoned to death for planting 2 different crops side by side.

Women could be burned for wearing garments made from 2 different threads.

None of these are practiced today in our society.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> My bedtime - and I hope we can leave early tomorrow since it will be a 3 day weekend. So looking forward to an extra day off from work!


Enjoy!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since the boy scouts started as a Christian organization, and the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination, it would mean only heterosexuality is moral.


How can feelings one is born be an abomination? How would you feel if you or one of your children had those feelings and couldn't change them no matter how hard you tried?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Enjoy!


Ciao!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Goodnite GW!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

My brother was almost raped by a gay scout master 44 years ago. What in the heck would someone want a gay scout master in with innocent boys? Turns my stomach. I have a brother , 2 sons, 4 grandboys. I would never put them in with that kind of man as a leader! I have watched all of them like I have my girls. What the heck are yall thinking?????!!!! I won't let my 10yo go in a men's bathroom by himself. Why ask for trouble? It is an abomination to God! Don't say anything to me about this either. I raised a gay boy from church I love Scott like my own son but I hate the sin . It is wrong!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It also says in the Bible that I can sell my youngest daughter into slavery. Leviticus 21:7
> 
> People who work on the Sabbath can be put to death EX 35:2
> 
> ...


That was Jew under the Law. We are under Grace.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

One does NOT need to have the wisdom of Solomon nor understand Einstein's law of relativity to know that Homosexuality is an abomination before Yahweh God.


Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) 
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 

Leviticus 20:13 (KJV) 
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. 


Deuteronomy 22:5 (KJV) 
5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. 

1 Corinthians 6:9 (KJV) 
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 

Romans 1:24 (KJV) 
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 

Romans 1:26 (KJV) 
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 

Romans 1:27 (KJV) 
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That was Jew under the Law. We are under Grace.


But it is in the bible nonetheless!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> But it is in the bible nonetheless!


Maybe but the Jews are not under the law anymore. Jesus set everyone free of it by sending Jesus with his blood for our sins. Jew and Gentile


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe but the Jews are not under the law anymore. Jesus set everyone free of it by sending Jesus with his blood for our sins. Jew and Gentile


You are so right CB. :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> One does NOT need to have the wisdom of Solomon nor understand Einstein's law of relativity to know that Homosexuality is an abomination before Yahweh God.


Frankly I don't believe teens benefit from sexual activity of any sort--they're simply too young to safely navigate those intense and risky kinds of relationships. But I wouldn't feel comfortable telling a gay teen who had never acted on his feelings that he wasn't welcome, was an abomination, and so on and so on.

Maybe it all boils down to the question of whether being attracted to one's own sex is a matter of choice, and whether it can be changed. The AMA and the APA states that it isn't, and it can't. If they're right that's putting an awful burden on the kids and teens who are physically attracted to their own sex.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My brother was almost raped by a gay scout master 44 years ago. What in the heck would someone want a gay scout master in with innocent boys? Turns my stomach. I have a brother , 2 sons, 4 grandboys. I would never put them in with that kind of man as a leader! I have watched all of them like I have my girls. What the heck are yall thinking?????!!!! I won't let my 10yo go in a men's bathroom by himself. Why ask for trouble? It is an abomination to God! Don't say anything to me about this either. I raised a gay boy from church I love Scott like my own son but I hate the sin . It is wrong!


I am thinking that there are heterosexual child molesters as well as homosexual ones. But you can't label every gay person a child rapist or child molester as you can't label every heterosexual one either. There is something very wrong in the head with child predators. But it doesn't make them all gay.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Not sure what a bunch means to you, but all the recycling, running, and eating right does not equal what reducing the number of children a couple has.
> 
> The Best Way You Can Go Green: Have Fewer Children
> 
> ...


Dear HypocriteGoddess; You owe bonbf3 an apology! How dare you tell her to reduce the number of grandchildren she has or for US citizens to make certain to reduce, or kill, the children making up their family to "help" the impact on the environment. I thought you were all about peace and protecting the environment? Yet you promoted forced murder and for us to give up recycling efforts in your vile post.

Furthermore, go visit China, as I did, where you can walk through the cemeteries of all the millions of aborted little girl children who were murdered under the one-child policy that originated around 1979.

In China, one of the world's largest environmental polluters in the WORLD, forced infanticide, forced raped, forced family planning and forced sterilization controls the population which is still 1.3 Billion and growing. They have one of the highest rates for women committing suicide because of this one-child policy.

Do you know in China 1,500 abortions are performed each and every hour of every day? I suppose you love and admire that fact.

You are a contemptible being to offer such a disgusting suggestion to Bonbf3.

I suggest you move to China so you can be part of what is considered population control of the filth (translation - women) in that Nation.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Journalism school faculty are 80%+ leaning left. And vote demo. True journalism is dead and I doubt if there is any resuscitation that will bring them back to life. Schools have vulgar imbalance.


 :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since they are born boy or girl, and not homosexual. anything they do is their choice. I would still love them, but not their sin. And that is exactly what it is, sin.


In Your Opinion!
How can you say you would still love them when you clearly hate what they are?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am thinking that there are heterosexual child molesters as well as homosexual ones. But you can't label every gay person a child rapist or child molester as you can't label every heterosexual one either. There is something very wrong in the head with child predators. But it doesn't make them all gay.[/quote No maybe not but I still don't want my boys or girls around anyone of question.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> In Your Opinion!
> How can you say you would still love them when you clearly hate what they are?


Thats what she said. You still can love the person, but not the sin. Sin is sin. It would be like if you were mad at your husband, but you don't hate him, you may be mad at him for a day a week, but you still love him.

That is what Joey is saying hate the sin but love the sinner.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> In Your Opinion!
> How can you say you would still love them when you clearly hate what they are?


It is the sin. When you look at the sin it is ugly. With spirtual eyes and the love of Jesus you can love the sinner. God cannot look on us unless we have Jesus in us because we are sinners. Don't you hate something someone does but still love them?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Dear HypocriteGoddess; You owe bonbf3 an apology! How dare you tell her to reduce the number of grandchildren she has or for US citizens to make certain to reduce, or kill, the children making up their family to "help" the impact on the environment. I thought you were all about peace and protecting the environment? Yet you promoted forced murder and for us to give up recycling efforts in your vile post.
> 
> Furthermore, go visit China, as I did, where you can walk through the cemeteries of all the millions of aborted little girl children who were murdered under the one-child policy that originated around 1979.
> 
> ...


YAWN.. abortion is legal in this country. Why are you still living here?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Men who do this stuff are sleazy. I guess the GOP condones this kind of behavior from men. They do have the get out of hell free card so no problem.


I fixed your typo for you!

I guess the Dems condone this kind of behavior from men.

Listed a few for you for reference:
A. Weiner, J. Edwards, W. Clinton, C. Rangel, J. Jackson, M. Reynolds, B. Frank, E. Holder, T. Porteous


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I fixed your typo for you!
> 
> I guess the Dems condone this kind of behavior from men.
> 
> ...


Well, aren't you just special! The thing is is that only one is running for re election and more than likely won't win.
Unlike Sanford who STOLD money from the state on top of his bad behaviour. Makes one wonder...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They are still a man or a woman. It is their behavior (sin) that I hate. It is HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR, they are not homosexual.


You are making no sense now. Yes, Joey , they are homosexual. It is part of their biological make up.
If they weren't homosexual, would they be performing the "sin"?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Q: Did Stevens turn down extra security? A: Maybe, not really sure. Q: Who doctored those transcripts? A: Maybe an aide--not really sure etc etc.
> 
> I said it once before, but it bears repeating: if Benghazi was such an open and shut case, why did the GOP need to doctor the facts?


A1: No, Stevens requstd help and help was not only denied, by an order given to military leadership to 'stand down.' Guess who can give such an order?

A2: The original transcript was factual and correct as prepared. After 11 revisions, they were complete falsehood. Petreaus resigned and denied the revised docs as not true (thankfully extortion didn't sway him from resigning I guess.) Alleged revisions done by leadership and assistant of State Dept w/out CIA approval. WH representative Rice allowed and encouraged to present lies and WH and Sec of State repeated lie multiple times for up to 2 weeks.

A3: Not an open/closed case. GOP didn't need nor alter the facts. They are trying to get the Admin to release the facts and for those who know to speak the facts. Not too much forthcoming yet.

Your humble reporter.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never heard anything about Chris Stevens turning down help. He requested it, then made a call saying, "We're under attack." That was the last he call he made, from what I've heard.


I've not heard Stevens refusing help either. I have learned help was denied when requested. Where did this myth come from?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Every time a man does IT with another man. It is his CHOICE. No one is holding a gun to his head. If someone was it would be rape.
> 
> Same for a woman.
> 
> I have never heard of a homosexual chromosome. Only X's and Y's.


And everthing is black and white too. By IT do you mean having sex? It's not a dirty word, Joey. All you can think of is the physical part. How about true emotions and feelings for another person of the same sex? The body is just a house for the soul.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've not heard Stevens refusing help either. I have learned help was denied when requested. Where did this myth come from?


Read back and you will see the source. It came from a general in the armed forces.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Which is the one who hid the money in his refrigerator? Is he still around?



knitpresentgifts said:


> I fixed your typo for you!
> 
> I guess the Dems condone this kind of behavior from men.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I don't know, is he?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I don't need to or care to - they obviously realized that their code is outdated and discriminatory.


 ... or bent to political persuasion


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I don't believe teens benefit from sexual activity of any sort--they're simply too young to safely navigate those intense and risky kinds of relationships. ..Maybe it all boils down to the question of whether being attr.acted to one's own sex is a matter of choice, and whether it can be changed. The AMA and the APA states that it isn't, and it can't.


Susan, I'm just quoting part of what you said. I think it takes a certain level of maturity to have a serious romantic relationship, and teens should be able to navigate to that point and enjoy all the things that lead to that, like that first kiss, and holding hands, and talking about nothing on the phone for hours, etc.

It looks like we are born with our sexual orientation already in place and we can't change that. Since we are all created in God's image, part of His image must include sexual orientation. Accepting each other is a far better goal than rejecting each other for what we're born to be.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A1: No, Stevens requstd help and help was not only denied, by an order given to military leadership to 'stand down.' Guess who can give such an order?
> 
> A2: The original transcript was factual and correct as prepared. After 11 revisions, they were complete falsehood. Petreaus resigned and denied the revised docs as not true (thankfully extortion didn't sway him from resigning I guess.) Alleged revisions done by leadership and assistant of State Dept w/out CIA approval. WH representative Rice allowed and encouraged to present lies and WH and Sec of State repeated lie multiple times for up to 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Old story.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> My church (Catholic) teaches that people are born with either heterosexual or homosexual tendencies, and it's not something that anyone needs to feel ashamed of.


Perhaps you church does teach that but follow through as I believe the Catholic church also teaches homosexuality is always a violation of divine law once acted upon.

See Gen 19:13 and Lev and the passages with Lot and where Sodom was destroyed.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Susan, I'm just quoting part of what you said. I think it takes a certain level of maturity to have a serious romantic relationship, and teens should be able to navigate to that point and enjoy all the things that lead to that, like that first kiss, and holding hands, and talking about nothing on the phone for hours, etc.
> 
> It looks like we are born with our sexual orientation already in place and we can't change that. Since we are all created in God's image, part of His image must include sexual orientation. Accepting each other is a far better goal than rejecting each other for what we're born to be.


Well said. My sister's boys are a few years older than mine, and she instituted a no-dating-until-your-sixteen rule in hopes of keeping their minds fixed on the books while they're in high school. I'm not sure how the law will hold up over time, but I can't help but think she's right. Adults have enough trouble managing their sexual relationships--how can we expect a fourteen or fifteen year old to do any better.

And yes, the Catholic Church teaches that God makes us either homosexual or heterosexual for reasons of His own. Those feelings can't be changed and are nothing to be ashamed us. Hating anyone for any reason is wrong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Susan found this earlier. I read the entire article before posting. This was dated May 14, 2013

By Nancy A. Youssef | McClatchy Foreign Staff
By Nancy A. Youssef 
CAIRO  In the month before attackers stormed U.S. facilities in Benghazi and killed four Americans, U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens twice turned down offers of security assistance made by the senior U.S. military official in the region in response to concerns that Stevens had raised in a still secret memorandum, two government officials told McClatchy. 
Why Stevens, who died of smoke inhalation in the first of two attacks that took place late Sept. 11 and early Sept. 12, 2012, would turn down the offers remains unclear. The deteriorating security situation in Benghazi had been the subject of a meeting that embassy officials held Aug. 15, where they concluded they could not defend the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi. The next day, the embassy drafted a cable outlining the dire circumstances and saying it would spell out what it needed in a separate cable.
In light of the uncertain security environment, US Mission Benghazi will submit specific requests to US Embassy Tripoli for additional physical security upgrades and staffing needs by separate cover, said the cable, which was first reported by Fox News.
Army Gen. Carter Ham, then the head of the U.S. Africa Command, did not wait for the separate cable, however. Instead, after reading the Aug. 16 cable, Ham phoned Stevens and asked if the embassy needed a special security team from the U.S. military. Stevens told Ham it did not, the officials said. 
Weeks later, Stevens traveled to Germany for an already scheduled meeting with Ham at AFRICOM headquarters. During that meeting, Ham again offered additional military assets, and Stevens again said no, the two officials said. 
He didnt say why. He just turned it down, a defense official who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the subject told McClatchy. 
The offers of aid and Stevens rejection of them have not been revealed in either the State Departments Administrative Review Board investigation of the Benghazi events or during any of the congressional hearings and reports that have been issued into what took place there. 
Stevens deputy, Gregory Hicks, who might be expected to be aware of the ambassadors exchange with military leaders, was not asked about the offer of additional assistance during his appearance before a House of Representatives committee last week, and testimony has not been sought from Ham, who is now retired.
Both Hicks and Ham declined to comment on the exchange between Ham and Stevens. Hicks lawyer, Victoria Toensing, said Hicks did not know the details of conversations between Stevens and Ham and was not aware of Stevens turning down an offer of additional security.
As far as Mr. Hicks knows, the ambassador always wanted more security and they were both frustrated by not getting it, she said.
Some Republican lawmakers expressed surprise when told that Stevens had turned down such an offer.
That is odd to me because Stevens requested from the State Department additional security four times, and there was an 18-person special forces security team headed by Lt. Col. Wood that Gen. Ham signed off on that the State Department said no to, said Sen. Lindsay Graham, R-S.C., who has been among the most vocal critics of the Obama administration on Benghazi. The records are very clear that people on the ground in Libya made numerous requests for additional security that were either denied or only partially granted.
But a spokesman for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, indicated that some lawmakers may have been aware of Stevens exchange with Ham.
Decisions conveyed by Ambassador Stevens were made on behalf of the U.S. State Department, the spokesman, Frederick Hill, said in an email. There were certainly robust debates between State and Defense officials over the mission and controlling authority of such forces. The lack of discussion by the public ARB report about the role inter-agency tension played in a lack of security resources remains a significant concern of the Oversight Committee.
One person familiar with the events said Stevens might have rejected the offers because there was an understanding within the State Department that officials in Libya ought not to request more security, in part because of concerns about the political fallout of seeking a larger military presence in a country that was still being touted as a foreign policy success.
The embassy was told through back channels to not make direct requests for security, an official familiar with the case, who agreed to discuss the case only anonymously because of the sensitivity of the subject, told McClatchy. 
Still, the offer from Ham provided Stevens with a chance to plead for more assistance, an opportunity he apparently did not seize.
Congressional hearings into the Benghazi attacks  there were in fact two, one on a compound often referred to as the consulate, where Stevens and State Department computer specialist Sean Smith died, and a second hours later on a nearby CIA annex, where two security contractors, former Navy SEALs Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, were killed  have focused primarily on the events during the night of the attacks and subsequent statements by Obama administration officials.
There have been fewer questions, however, about the months leading up to the attack and how the State Department, the CIA and defense officials addressed a growing security problem. Among the questions that have not been probed is why the Benghazi mission, with its large CIA contingent, remained open when other Western countries, most notably Great Britain, had pulled out of Benghazi in the weeks preceding the attacks because of security concerns.
Officials have publicly referred to Hams phone call before. In his Feb. 7 testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the military was aware of the Aug. 16 cable and that someone had turned down Hams offer. 
Referring to the cable, Dempsey said: I was aware of it, because it came in, in Gen. Hams report. Gen. Ham actually called the embassy to, to see if they wanted to extend the special security team there and was said  and was told no.
Dempsey said the State Department never requested more from the military. 
We never received a request for support from the State Department, which would have allowed us to put forces on the ground, Dempsey told the committee.
The Aug. 16 cable remains classified. But Fox News has quoted liberally from it, reporting that State Department officials convened a meeting a day earlier to discuss security, which the cable described as trending negatively.
RSO (Regional Security Officer) expressed concerns with the ability to defend Post in the event of a coordinated attack due to limited manpower, security measures, weapons capabilities, host nation support, and the overall size of the compound, the cable said, according to Fox News. 
The Accountability Review Board investigation, commissioned by then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and released in December, placed blame for the Benghazi attack in large part on the State Department for not answering repeated calls for more security. 
But the report also is peppered with references to Stevens and how well the embassy made the case to Washington for more security. In a news conference at the time of the release of the boards finding, Adm. Mike Mullen, one of the boards two chairmen and a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, referred to the failing of the embassy. 
As the chief of mission, he certainly had a responsibility in that regard, and actually he was very security conscious and increasingly concerned about security, Mullen said. But part of his responsibility is certainly to make that case back here, and he had not gotten to that point where you would, you might get to a point where you would be considering, Its so dangerous, we might close the mission.
The embassy Stevens oversaw in Tripoli did not demonstrate strong and sustained advocacy with Washington for increased security in Benghazi, the report stated. 
Traditionally, State Department officials have depended on the State Departments own Diplomatic Security Service, local police and military forces and security contractors to secure embassies around the world. U.S. military personnel at embassies consist usually of Marines whose job it is to guard the perimeter of a compound and to protect classified documents and equipment inside. It is rare that U.S. forces would be called upon to guard embassy personnel traveling outside embassy grounds. 
Any increase in U.S. military force would have required State Department approval. Its unknown if Stevens might have passed along Hams offer to the State Department and been turned down, or whether he believed that the security team Ham offered would not provide the kind of security he needed. 
Officials familiar with the exchanges between Ham and Stevens said they did not know whether Ham offered any other support than the security team. 
It was a brief conversation, the defense official said. 
James Rosen and Jonathan S .Landay contributed from Washington.
Update: An earlier version of this story misspelled the name of Lindsey Graham and misidentified the Accountability Review Board.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/05/14/191235/amb-stevens-twice-said-no-to-military.html#storylink=cpy


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> How do I get into these messes?


Don't stress any more. You were blinded by the hateful message she wrote to you. You've apologized multiple ways. Forgive yourself for a simple mistake.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Perhaps you church does teach that but follow through as I believe the Catholic church also teaches homosexuality is always a violation of divine law once acted upon.
> 
> See Gen 19:13 and Lev and the passages with Lot and where Sodom was destroyed.


Actually it does teach that homosexuality isn't a sin, but that acting on those feelings is wrong. A life of celibacy is just a cross you have to bear.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your humble reporter.


Well, hit the bricks--you're fired. Read Patty's Mcclatchy post on page 46 to brush up on your facts.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, you're fired. Read Patty's Mcclatchy post on page 46 to brush up on your facts.


Actually, Susan, I used your sources.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ... or bent to political persuasion


Or just being fair to all boys.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> In Your Opinion!
> How can you say you would still love them when you clearly hate what they are?


No, not her opinion - the words of the _Bible_ as she stated.

Joey is able to love the sinner but not the sin. Why cannot you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Actually, Susan, I used your sources.


Actually, I was just about to thank you for retrieving that report. I feel like I've pulled it up and shown it to every conservative on the site, and frankly I'm getting pretty sick of it. Why isn't it registering in Republican minds?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Susan, thanks for what you said about teens dating. My friends and I had pretty strict rules about dating and all sorts of other things but it was more ordinary then than it is now. I hope your sister's boys can stick to the rules. Your sister is really showing them how much she cares about them.

It's my understanding that for Catholics, being homosexual isn't the sin. Engaging in homosexual activity is the sin, and the homosexual Catholic would, indeed have to live a celibate life. I suppose one could go ahead and sin and confess it. Fornication for us heterosexuals is a sin, too, and some of us do it anyway.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No, not her opinion - the words of the _Bible_ as she stated.
> 
> Joey is able to love the sinner but not the sin. Why cannot you.


Being homosexual is much more than sex. It is who that person is, not just what he/she does.
Yes and I also quoted the bible.
Why can't I? I'm not the homophobic here.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Chris Stevens DID NOT turn down offers of help the night of the Benghazi murders. It is reported that two months PRIOR to the attack, he said extra security was probably not necessary. 
Gregory Hicks testified that planes and troops were ready to depart from Tripoli to Benghazi when they were told to stand down. The question is WHO issued that order.
And NO! It is NOT an OLD STORY! I wonder if you'd be making that horribly vile statement if it had been YOUR son who was sodomized with a sword and butchered because of dereliction of duty, cowardice and incompetence of the Do-Nothing president.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Read back and you will see the source. It came from a general in the armed forces.


no it didn't; the source was an editorial


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Which is the one who hid the money in his refrigerator? Is he still around?


Did Rangel do that? I haven't heard the idiotic story - talk about cold hard cash! :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Old story.


Yeah right, that is why even the MSM is reporting about it 24/7 presently.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> It's my understanding that for Catholics, being homosexual isn't the sin. Engaging in homosexual activity is the sin, and the homosexual Catholic would, indeed have to live a celibate life. I suppose one could go ahead and sin and confess it. Fornication for us heterosexuals is a sin, too, and some of us do it anyway.


No doubt--none of us is perfect, certainly. I really don't have an opinion on the Church's view on gay folks and the celibate life (and don't feel it matters what I think--it's not up for vote, after all). But it must be tough. You really would need God's help to get through it with a fair amount of acceptance and grace.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Chris Stevens DID NOT turn down offers of help the night of the Benghazi murders. It is reported that two months PRIOR to the attack, he said extra security was probably not necessary.
> Gregory Hicks testified that planes and troops were ready to depart from Tripoli to Benghazi when they were told to stand down. The question is WHO issued that order.
> And NO! It is NOT an OLD STORY! I wonder if you'd be making that horribly vile statement if it had been YOUR son who was sodomized with a sword and butchered because of dereliction of duty, cowardice and incompetence of the Do-Nothing president.


You were there? Why didn't you tell us earlier, Bydie?
I guess that General was just a lyin SOB then, huh?
Steven Hicks was not in the Benghazi offices, now was he? I believe he was in Tripoli. Is it possible that Hicks did not know about the phone calls? Afterall he only whistleblew what info he had.
Right Bydie, Obama did it all by himself. He hired those terrorists to kill our ambassador and his aides. The tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and Leprechauns are real too!
You don't know anymore of what happened than anyone else. You just want to believe it out of your hate for President Obama.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

LA Times, NY Times, USA Today and WaPo all say that there needs to be an investigation of the DOJ in the AP scandal. 
Too Little, Too Late, I'd say. Where have they been for the last 5 years? Now that they have their panties in a wad, they want action? Where were they during the rest of the travesties committed by this POC?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You were there? Why didn't you tell us earlier, Bydie?
> I guess that General was just a lyin SOB then, huh?
> Steven Hicks was not in the Benghazi offices, now was he? I believe he was in Tripoli. Is it possible that Hicks did not know about the phone calls? Afterall he only whistleblew what info he had.


No, but GREGORY Hicks was...... on the phone with Stevens. So I'm going to take some leftest prog's version of what happened???? over Hicks'???


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually it does teach that homosexuality isn't a sin, but that acting on those feelings is wrong. A life of celibacy is just a cross you have to bear.


I agree with this addition. The thought or lust for homosexual relations is not the sin, but acting upon same is the sin and abomination.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> No, but GREGORY Hicks was...... on the phone with Stevens. So I'm going to take some leftest prog's version of what happened???? over Hicks'???


I think you and Patty are talking at cross-purposes here. She's not speaking of what happened the night of the attack, but rather a month or so before, when General Ham twice offered Stevens some extra security for the embassy--and was rebuffed, for reasons unknown.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree with this addition. The thought or lust for homosexual relations is not the sin, but acting upon same is the sin and abomination.


I agree.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Thanks, Susan. Covert operation perhaps?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think you and Patty are talking at cross-purposes here. She's not speaking of what happened the night of the attack, but rather a month or so before, when General Ham twice offered Stevens some extra security for the embassy--and was rebuffed, for reasons unknown.


I think I made that clear in my original post. She is indicating that Stevens rejected the help on the night of the attacks


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> LA Times, NY Times, USA Today and WaPo all say that there needs to be an investigation of the DOJ in the AP scandal.
> Too Little, Too Late, I'd say. Where have they been for the last 5 years? Now that they have their panties in a wad, they want action? Where were they during the rest of the travesties committed by this POC?


What travesties are you referring to? The AP leak? That was all done legally. You bet your ass if classified info is leaked, then they should have to do whatever they have to to find the traitor who leaked it. They had subpoenas for the records of the 5 reporters in question. Does it open a can of worms regarding the media and their right to free speech? Sure it does. But National Security should always come first.
The IRS thing has been going on for some time. Bush could have done something about it, but didn't. It's not like they just started doing this.Boehner lied about the time frame regarding when the White House found out.
And that is being corrected. But it won't happen over night. These things take time. The IG was swift in getting his report back to the Presidentand the commissioner was fired. Don't think for a minute that it ends there. Liberal groups were targeted as well.
10 senators wrote a letter to the IRS asking them to target some of these groups because of shady dealings with their donors. The donors were not able to claim their donations to these "social welfare groups" because they turned out to be using the tax exemption status for political purposes. I don't condone what they did, but I don't believe that Obama ordered them to do that. He would have to much to lose by doing so.
I hope Lois Lerner is the next to go.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I think I made that clear in my original post. She is indicating that Stevens rejected the help on the night of the attacks


No I wasn't. I was referring to the report I posted.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, hit the bricks--you're fired. Read Patty's Mcclatchy post on page 46 to brush up on your facts.


I've read the reports and listened to the entire hearing(s) that aired. Stevens was denied the support he requested the night he was killed. Period. Lies followed.

P.S. the post prior was not a report, but an article written not by Mcclatchy as you suggest but by Nancy Youssef. Get your facts from the appropriate sources please.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What travesties are you referring to?


It will take about 8 hours to list them all. I'll gift you with that list tomorrow. Tied with a bow.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, I was just about to thank you for retrieving that report. I feel like I've pulled it up and shown it to every conservative on the site, and frankly I'm getting pretty sick of it. Why isn't it registering in Republican minds?


Because its an editorial and does not match the facts in the ABR report nor to the testimony given.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Being homosexual is much more than sex. It is who that person is, not just what he/she does.
> Yes and I also quoted the bible.
> Why can't I? I'm not the homophobic here.


Where on my 1099 can I check a box that I'm a heterosexual rather than my gender check box? Oh, that's right, I'm not a behavior, I'm a human being of a pre-determined sex.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think you and Patty are talking at cross-purposes here. She's not speaking of what happened the night of the attack, but rather a month or so before, when General Ham twice offered Stevens some extra security for the embassy--and was rebuffed, for reasons unknown.


And none of those theories matter since Stevens and three others were murdered weeks later when assistance was tragically denied.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> I think I made that clear in my original post. She is indicating that Stevens rejected the help on the night of the attacks


BP is grasping at straws all which come up short.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've read the reports and listened to the entire hearing(s) that aired. Stevens was denied the support he requested the night he was killed. Period. Lies followed.
> 
> P.S. the post prior was not a report, but an article written not by Mcclatchy as you suggest but by Nancy Youssef. Get your facts from the appropriate sources please.


It came from McClatchy who Youssef works for.It was printed at the top of the report. Put your glasses on. Clear enough for you? Appropriare sources like Fox Noise?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> It will take about 8 hours to list them all. I'll gift you with that list tomorrow. Tied with a bow.


Bydie, Can you believe the crap BP believes is factual? No wonder she cannot keep the stories straight. Even President Obama gave the longest speech ever since becoming Pres to try to turn the focus off all the scandals swirling around him.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bydie, Can you believe the crap BP believes is factual? No wonder she cannot keep the stories straight. Even President Obama gave the longest speech ever since becoming Pres to try to turn the focus off all the scandals swirling around him.


Well you are such a military person, why would the General lie?
Your hate blinds you.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you know any red-blooded American men? Since you've questioned this behavior, guess I have my answer.


And what does your answer mean? I dare not think that you figure all this is just "red blooded men" being men.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I think with good genes.... have as many children as you can take care of...physically, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, lovingly and every other LY. Those children not so fortunate are going to need all these children to provide for their needs.
> 
> Do you have a number in mind for number of children a couple should have?
> 
> I believe what they are doing is very responsible. I believe that someone should take on the packaging of products to reduce the amount of waste. And the catalogues. Last week I had two grocery bags full of unsolicited mail for our recycling.


Read the article and then further inform yourself.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Dame: Please forgive me. I thought you posted that.
> 
> I should have known it was the self-proclaimed Peace Goddess, stirring up trouble.
> 
> ...


You are so very articulate. You are the one bragging about your bunch of grandchildren and recycling and environmentalism. Well this is an informative article about environmentalism. Are you familiar with the saying "if you cannot stand the heat...."I bet you know the rest of the saying.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, I hope she didn't really receive the brunt of it. You caught it right away, and I corrected it right away. Thanks again for that.
> 
> Peace Goddess was telling me that what my children did for the environment wasn't nearly as effective as if they "reduced the number of children they had." How she expects them to reduce the number when the children are already here is a problem. Besides, that's totally none of her business and she was out of line. I thought it was extremely rude. I told you all I could be a B, and I was - I was extremely rude back.


I never said the words "your daughter should have had fewer children" 
The title and gist of the article was referring to having fewer children. 
It was an informative piece in answer to your bragging about how environmentally conscious you think they are. Here in the bay area we are very aware of all aspects of environmentalism. Your outrage is misplaced, as I did not criticize your daughter just provided you with information.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bydie, Can you believe the crap BP believes is factual? No wonder she cannot keep the stories straight. Even President Obama gave the longest speech ever since becoming Pres to try to turn the focus off all the scandals swirling around him.


I can't believe all the crap you believe.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It also says in the Bible that I can sell my youngest daughter into slavery. Leviticus 21:7
> 
> People who work on the Sabbath can be put to death EX 35:2
> 
> ...


Excellent!!! :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh, you poor little mudslinger shoo and get back to your little pile of dirt. How dare you come out here and throw mud at everyone. You can add a little water to your dirt pile and continue the mud slinging where you won't hit anyone else. What a lack of character, oh I guess you don't even have character do you.


I made a mistake and posted the wrong link. So that mistake did not support my point, sorry.

But that does not justify your vicious attack and slanderous remarks. It is you that lacks decent character.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Actually, a nice exchange of ideas. I thank you both for restoring a little island of sanity to the inmates of bedlam.


Because you were not part of the discussion


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It goes against the Boy Scout code, "Morally straight." If it doesn't stand for something, it stands for nothing.


I don't know where to start on this one. I think I'll just stick to despair.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> (scratching head) ???????


 I responded to a post which I thought was from Damemary to me. It wasn't from Damemary at all. Bratty Patty caught it and let me know and I straightened it out, I hope.

See what I mean about rude posts? I sent a rude one, and it backfired. I'm telling you, it doesn't pay!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I responded to a post which I thought was from Damemary to me. It wasn't from Damemary at all. Bratty Patty caught it and let me know and I straightened it out, I hope.
> 
> See what I mean about rude posts? I sent a rude one, and it backfired. I'm telling you, it doesn't pay!


A momentary lapse--and by the standards of the thread, positively demure! You truly are a marvel, Bonnie--the one person who remains consistently untouched by all the meanness swirling around her. Whether that's due to your relationship with God or something within yourself it's very reassuring to see.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> That's sad. I guess the parents passed along the trait of non-acceptance of others who may be different from you.


To be fair to everyone, I think that all-night camp-outs usually are not boy and girl for reasons we can all imagine. If you have all-night camp-outs with boys who are attracted to boys, parents could have the same concerns. Even people who are understanding of homosexuality also realize that sexual encounters aren't really part of scouting. If you put people who are attracted in that way together all night, it could be an issue.

To put it another way, a parent might not want a daughter to join an all-boy troop due to all-nighters because the daughter likes boys.
Just substitute boy for girl, as in the gay attraction. A parent might not want a son to join a troop due to all-nighters because he likes boys. In both cases, the parent may wish to avoid any sexual situation for a rather young child.

I'm trying to say that parents who are worried about gays in Scouts are probably very nice parents who have a legitimate concern and are not "targeting" or trying to hurt gays.

Scouting is aware of issues like this. My daughter was in Explorer Scouts, and it was boys and girls - teenagers at that. They were more concerned about leaders' behavior and had safeguards like having both men and women on trips. I hope we can trust that Scout leaders will keep the kids busy enough that there won't be any inappropriate behavior - gay OR straight.

This is rambling. I could write a better paper, (I tell my teacher, but i just don't have time. Have to take dog to vet - he ate my science project.)


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Still don't get...read the post about having fewer kids. One may agree or disagree, but how is it rude?


I took it personally because she was talking about my daughter and her family. I know that because I said they had given us a bunch of great grandkids. She said she didn't know what a bunch was but they'd do more for the environment by reducing the number of children they had than by recycling. I thought it was rude.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I never said the words "your daughter should have had fewer children"
> The title and gist of the article was referring to having fewer children.
> It was an informative piece in answer to your bragging about how environmentally conscious you think they are. Here in the bay area we are very aware of all aspects of environmentalism. Your outrage is misplaced, as I did not criticize your daughter just provided you with information.


The article was complete nonsense and you were fully aware of the insults you hurled, and you choose to remain completely unaware of the murders and environmental disgrace that China offers which was also part of your post and beliefs that you brag about. Read your own 'mis' information hypocrite.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My brother was almost raped by a gay scout master 44 years ago. What in the heck would someone want a gay scout master in with innocent boys? Turns my stomach. I have a brother , 2 sons, 4 grandboys. I would never put them in with that kind of man as a leader! I have watched all of them like I have my girls. What the heck are yall thinking?????!!!! I won't let my 10yo go in a men's bathroom by himself. Why ask for trouble? It is an abomination to God! Don't say anything to me about this either. I raised a gay boy from church I love Scott like my own son but I hate the sin . It is wrong!


We had a police officer at our school who showed us a video taken at a local neighborhood and park. The police supervised, tv station made the video, parents gave approval, children did not know in advance. It showed:

A very large African-American man in a trenchcoat asking kids at the park to get in his van to see his new puppies.

A mom-looking white woman in a car pulling up to a driveway and asking the little girl to get in her car.

They did this several times with different children - EVERY SINGLE CHILD WENT WITH THE ADULT!

These were average suburban kids who had been warned over the years about "stranger danger."

This police officer said he never let a kid of his go in a bathroom alone at any public place - even McDonald's. He said it's not enough for an abducted child to be screaming - people will think it's a tantrum. He said the child should yell "not my mother!" or "not my father!" Chilling, isn't it? We almost have to be paranoid nowadays.

He also said that any person the child sees regularly - mailman, the person delivering milk to the school - is NOT considered by the child to be a "stranger."

Just passing this along for parents and grandparents. This was a great cop, fearless - and he had learned from experience.

Once a neighbor went to the school bus stop and offered the kids a ride. Every single one got in the car - except my daughter and her friend. They ran straight to our house and told me. The kids didn't know this neighbor, but i'm sure he was just trying to be nice. I called the school to make sure the kids had gotten there safely, and they had. It's not a good idea to offer a little kid who doesn't know you a ride.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I took it personally because she was talking about my daughter and her family. I know that because I said they had given us a bunch of great grandkids. She said she didn't know what a bunch was but they'd do more for the environment by reducing the number of children they had than by recycling. I thought it was rude.


I understand, Bonnie. Peacegoddess may not have realized how angry her post would make you, but I'm sure both you and your daughter have grown weary of all the unnecessary comments and judgements--and I don't blame you a bit. Our society does seem to feel the right to butt in on the decisions we make regarding our families--breast vs bottle feeding, voluntary childlessness vs a whole brood. It's exasperating as society's standards change from year to year and women are expected to keep pace with every new development.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I understand, Bonnie. Peacegoddess may not have realized how angry her post would make you, but I'm sure both you and your daughter have grown weary of all the unnecessary comments and judgements--and I don't blame you a bit. Our society does seem to feel the right to butt in on the decisions we make regarding our families--breast vs bottle feeding, voluntary childlessness vs a whole brood. It's exasperating as society's standards change from year to year and women are expected to keep pace with every new development.


Right, Susan. I am always shocked when people make comments on personal things like that. I had a neighbor who was scolded by a stranger for the way she was handling her kids. The worst I ever had was a clerk telling me my daughter was too old for a pacifier. Humph! :roll:

And people with no kids - oh, my gosh. That's dangerous ground - maybe they can't have kids, maybe they've lost kids, maybe they don't want kids for one reason or another. Some people love to mind other people's business. (Kind of like we do on here, come to think of it! )


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This article states my feelings better than I have
> 
> I Have No Problem With the Boy Scouts Decision
> 
> http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/24/i-have-no-problem-with-the-scouts-decision/


Excellent article Joeysomma. Thanks for the timely posting of it here. The sentiments exactly of many here and me as well.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How can feelings one is born be an abomination? How would you feel if you or one of your children had those feelings and couldn't change them no matter how hard you tried?


I feel the same way. I don't think we know much about homosexuality, and society has made a lot of mistakes through the ages by acting before understanding.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> To be fair to everyone, I think that all-night camp-outs usually are not boy and girl for reasons we can all imagine. If you have all-night camp-outs with boys who are attracted to boys, parents could have the same concerns. Even people who are understanding of homosexuality also realize that sexual encounters aren't really part of scouting. If you put people who are attracted in that way together all night, it could be an issue.


I get your point Bonnie, and I agree that scouting should be an area where boys and girls can concentrate on things other than teenage romance. I'm sure most folks would agree--that's why the groups have always been unisex.

But I don't doubt for a second that there have always been gay scouts, and under the "don't ask, don't tell" no one really knew who they were. At least if scouts are more open about their sexual orientation parents with concerns can make informed decisions about whether to allow their child to participate in a camp outs and other activities, and if they or their child are really uncomfortable they can change to a different troop.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> A momentary lapse--and by the standards of the thread, positively demure! You truly are a marvel, Bonnie--the one person who remains consistently untouched by all the meanness swirling around her. Whether that's due to your relationship with God or something within yourself it's very reassuring to see.


What a nice thing to say. I can't take credit, but you have warmed my heart this morning.

And I love the description of my comment - demure! I hope Peacegoddess agrees with you. :?:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I understand, Bonnie. Peacegoddess may not have realized how angry her post would make you, but I'm sure both you and your daughter have grown weary of all the unnecessary comments and judgements--and I don't blame you a bit. Our society does seem to feel the right to butt in on the decisions we make regarding our families--breast vs bottle feeding, voluntary childlessness vs a whole brood. It's exasperating as society's standards change from year to year and women are expected to keep pace with every new development.


I agree with you, Susan, on how society barges into our families. The Boy Scouts just did it yesterday by telling us how to raise boys and what is acceptable in a Christian home. While, I accept and agree with the decision, I must decide if I'll continue to support the organization.

My family made a very sizable donation of necessary goods a couple of years ago to the B.S, but I doubt we'd do the same today based on their recent decision. Ultimately, the decision will trickle down and hurt the boys in the organization by way of support.

However, PeaceGoddess has already feigned her ignorance of the impact of her article to Bonnie while at the same time stated she meant what Bonnie took from the article. PG offered no apology but further contempt.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I get your point Bonnie, and I agree that scouting should be an area where boys and girls can concentrate on things other than teenage romance. I'm sure most folks would agree--that's why the groups have always been unisex.
> 
> But I don't doubt for a second that there have always been gay scouts, and under the "don't ask, don't tell" no one really knew who they were. At least if scouts are more open about their sexual orientation parents with concerns can make informed decisions about whether to allow their child to participate in a camp outs and other activities, and if they or their child are really uncomfortable they can change to a different troop.


I agree. It will be an adjustment. Leaders and parents will have to be very wise to navigate these waters fairly. I just wish we could keep the sexual awareness for later years. I really wouldn't know how to handle the subject of homosexuality in childhood with a group of pre-teen children or even younger teens.

Kids get such mixed messages now - but that's another whole topic - and another whole can of worms to be opened! Not by me. No way. No no no. 
:shock:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This article states my feelings better than I have
> 
> I Have No Problem With the Boy Scouts Decision
> 
> http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/24/i-have-no-problem-with-the-scouts-decision/


Interesting article--and I have no doubt that the author is correct in that the next big brouhaha is going to be over whether to allow openly gay scout leaders.

One point, though: I don't believe that gay people can change their sexual orientation, but I know a lot a lot of people disagree--and subscribers of this theory seem to feel than "manly" companions and activities are key to getting "misguided" teens back on track. If this is the case, wouldn't it be beneficial to the boys to admit them, where they'll be surrounded by straight kids and encouraged to participate in hunting, fishing, and all the other things Scouts do?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Kids get such mixed messages now - but that's another whole topic - and another whole can of worms to be opened! Not by me. No way. No no no.
> :shock:


Absolutely. I know the next issue will be whether to admit gay leaders--I won't touch that one with a ten-foot pole!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> What a nice thing to say. I can't take credit, but you have warmed my heart this morning.
> 
> And I love the description of my comment - demure! I hope Peacegoddess agrees with you. :?:


 :-D :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Excellent article Joeysomma. Thanks for the timely posting of it here. The sentiments exactly of many here and me as well.


Very thoughtful article. He does a good job of explaining the distinction in a way that is not judgmental and carefully avoids condemning people.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely. I know the next issue will be whether to admit gay leaders--I won't touch that one with a ten-foot pole!


Good idea - I'll leave that alone, too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interesting article--and I have no doubt that the author is correct in that the next big brouhaha is going to be over whether to allow openly gay scout leaders.
> 
> One point, though: I don't believe that gay people can change their sexual orientation, but I know a lot a lot of people disagree--and subscribers of this theory seem to feel than "manly" companions and activities are key to getting "misguided" teens back on track. If this is the case, wouldn't it be beneficial to the boys to admit them, where they'll be surrounded by straight kids and encouraged to participate in hunting, fishing, and all the other things Scouts do?


I see you're mulling this over, too. I'm worried that if a boy is openly gay, he will be ostracized even within his scout group. I think Scouting is a great experience for ALL boys, but kids don't see things as we do. The gay boy in the group could be singled out, even in subtle ways, giggles and snickers and stares and not being chosen as a work partner, by kids who really aren't mature enough to understand any kind of sexuality. Middle school kids are always calling each other gay, and it's not meant as a compliment. Leaders will have to watch for that so it doesn't turn out to be a fiasco for the gay child. (Gay child - I can't exactly get my mind around that.)

I think something that personal should be private. Maybe that would solve a lot of problems. Why should anybody know your sexual orientation unless you're out with your significant other?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knowing that the issue of gay troop leaders is next on the agenda I can't feeling that those who oppose it really missed the boat there. In retrospect they might have sidestepped the whole issue by restricting troop leadership to men who are or have been married--would have been a neat way of dodging the storm that's about to break over everyone's head.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The article was complete nonsense and you were fully aware of the insults you hurled, and you choose to remain completely unaware of the murders and environmental disgrace that China offers which was also part of your post and beliefs that you brag about. Read your own 'mis' information hypocrite.


As usual when you respond to me you use double speak, manipulation of words and intent and end with insult.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Thanks, GW! You're a great counselor, and I appreciate it. Hope you don't charge too much!


For you - it's free!!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's right. The Catholic church has a ministry for those who are trying to figure out their orientation or deciding how to live with a different sexual orientation than most.


And I think that's great that they do.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My brother was almost raped by a gay scout master 44 years ago. What in the heck would someone want a gay scout master in with innocent boys? Turns my stomach. I have a brother , 2 sons, 4 grandboys. I would never put them in with that kind of man as a leader! I have watched all of them like I have my girls. What the heck are yall thinking?????!!!! I won't let my 10yo go in a men's bathroom by himself. Why ask for trouble? It is an abomination to God! Don't say anything to me about this either. I raised a gay boy from church I love Scott like my own son but I hate the sin . It is wrong!


The vote this time was just for allowing boys of a different sexual orientation into the scout. Allowing gays into the group as leaders hasn't come up and I doubt it will for awhile. I think they should allow people to become comfortable with this new addition before attempting anything else.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe but the Jews are not under the law anymore. Jesus set everyone free of it by sending Jesus with his blood for our sins. Jew and Gentile


Just asking this question because I honestly do not know - don't the Jewish people still follow the law though?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Dear HypocriteGoddess; You owe bonbf3 an apology! How dare you tell her to reduce the number of grandchildren she has or for US citizens to make certain to reduce, or kill, the children making up their family to "help" the impact on the environment. I thought you were all about peace and protecting the environment? Yet you promoted forced murder and for us to give up recycling efforts in your vile post.
> 
> Furthermore, go visit China, as I did, where you can walk through the cemeteries of all the millions of aborted little girl children who were murdered under the one-child policy that originated around 1979.
> 
> ...


I think that she and bon worked it out so I think we should let it go. It's between them and no one else.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I posted this on "FF Wearing Denim and Pearls yeterday, and meant to post this here and on LOLL, but didn't get that far. I'm sure I've said this before, but after I scroll through what seems like miles of quotes this is how I feel. I hope all of you understand I'm trying to suggest something positive and constructive. I've already been bashed for this on "FF Wearing Denin and Pearls"...

"I think it's far easier to reference the post, where it is and go on from there with one's own remarks. I can say "Jane Doe, this is my response to your post about chicken noodle soup on page 57." Anyone who needs to read the post in question can easily do that. Maybe it's just my old brain not working too well, but when I scroll through some of the really long posts, I forget what I wanted to say in the first place. I don't think that helps maintain a good discussion. Try my idea out. You might find you like it. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you didn't need to quote my post as part of what you wanted to say to me. I remember what I posted. I'm just suggesting something I think would benefit all of us."


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've not heard Stevens refusing help either. I have learned help was denied when requested. Where did this myth come from?


Not a myth. Check it out. It was discussed several pages back and site was noted where you could find the information.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ... or bent to political persuasion


Doesn't matter now does it? The vote was 60% for. It's done.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Susan, I'm just quoting part of what you said. I think it takes a certain level of maturity to have a serious romantic relationship, and teens should be able to navigate to that point and enjoy all the things that lead to that, like that first kiss, and holding hands, and talking about nothing on the phone for hours, etc.
> 
> It looks like we are born with our sexual orientation already in place and we can't change that. Since we are all created in God's image, part of His image must include sexual orientation. Accepting each other is a far better goal than rejecting each other for what we're born to be.


Seattle - you hit the nail on the head so to speak. Awesome!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Susan, thanks for what you said about teens dating. My friends and I had pretty strict rules about dating and all sorts of other things but it was more ordinary then than it is now. I hope your sister's boys can stick to the rules. Your sister is really showing them how much she cares about them.
> 
> It's my understanding that for Catholics, being homosexual isn't the sin. Engaging in homosexual activity is the sin, and the homosexual Catholic would, indeed have to live a celibate life. I suppose one could go ahead and sin and confess it. Fornication for us heterosexuals is a sin, too, and some of us do it anyway.


That's interesting - I did not know that about the church. I'm not at all knowledgeable about the Catholic church. Well dang, I've been fornicating for awhile now.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> To be fair to everyone, I think that all-night camp-outs usually are not boy and girl for reasons we can all imagine. If you have all-night camp-outs with boys who are attracted to boys, parents could have the same concerns. Even people who are understanding of homosexuality also realize that sexual encounters aren't really part of scouting. If you put people who are attracted in that way together all night, it could be an issue.
> 
> To put it another way, a parent might not want a daughter to join an all-boy troop due to all-nighters because the daughter likes boys.
> Just substitute boy for girl, as in the gay attraction. A parent might not want a son to join a troop due to all-nighters because he likes boys. In both cases, the parent may wish to avoid any sexual situation for a rather young child.
> ...


You get an A+ on this paper, Bon!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> We had a police officer at our school who showed us a video taken at a local neighborhood and park. The police supervised, tv station made the video, parents gave approval, children did not know in advance. It showed:
> 
> A very large African-American man in a trenchcoat asking kids at the park to get in his van to see his new puppies.
> 
> ...


It can be a scary world out there for children - parents truly need to remain vigilant.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good Morning! Is everone happy today?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The article was complete nonsense and you were fully aware of the insults you hurled, and you choose to remain completely unaware of the murders and environmental disgrace that China offers which was also part of your post and beliefs that you brag about. Read your own 'mis' information hypocrite.


Do you have any integrity at all? You took my post cut and pasted and added words that were not there.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I get your point Bonnie, and I agree that scouting should be an area where boys and girls can concentrate on things other than teenage romance. I'm sure most folks would agree--that's why the groups have always been unisex.
> 
> But I don't doubt for a second that there have always been gay scouts, and under the "don't ask, don't tell" no one really knew who they were. At least if scouts are more open about their sexual orientation parents with concerns can make informed decisions about whether to allow their child to participate in a camp outs and other activities, and if they or their child are really uncomfortable they can change to a different troop.


Just as there have always been gays in the military. They love their country and are ready and willing to fight as much an anyone else.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good Morning! Is everone happy today?


I am!! It's Friday and a beautiful day! Hello all!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> That's interesting - I did not know that about the church. I'm not at all knowledgeable about the Catholic church. Well dang, I've been fornicating for awhile now.


Don't worry. You don't have to feel guilty, you just have to confess and do your penance, unless, of course you're a Protestant, agnostic, atheist, or practice any of the non-Christian religions that aren't so hard on you about your so-called sins. Ah, religion, what a tangled mess it can be to follow any particular one. Anyway, go ahead and enjoy yourself. :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you have any integrity at all? You took my post cut and pasted and added words that were not there.


I'm not surprised at all. That is playing low down and dirty.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm not surprised at all. That is playing low down and dirty.


Knittingpresentgifts seems to have a talent for using any method that come to mind to object to what someone else believes. It seems so unnecesssary. It's Friday, have a lovely day and enjoy.:thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've read the reports and listened to the entire hearing(s) that aired. Stevens was denied the support he requested the night he was killed. Period. Lies followed.
> 
> P.S. the post prior was not a report, but an article written not by Mcclatchy as you suggest but by Nancy Youssef. Get your facts from the appropriate sources please.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> As usual when you respond to me you use double speak, manipulation of words and intent and end with insult.


No I do not. My words are the truth and no spin. That's you gig.

You inferred about how great China is protecting their environment of which you obviously know nothing about.

You tout for no wars yet support the murders and rapes of 13 million females each year in that nation.

You insulted Bonbf3 and offered no apology. Stop your whining.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I think that she and bon worked it out so I think we should let it go. It's between them and no one else.


Lovely thought and your opinion but not the reality. The post was public and meant for all to read/respond as desired. As PG, herself, stated, if she can't take the heat ....


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No I do not. My words are the truth and no spin. That's you gig.
> 
> You inferred about how great China is protecting their environment of which you obviously know nothing about.
> 
> ...


It was not an inference of greatness, you do not know what I think about China. It was an article written by someone pointing out the differences of consumption and effect of people on the environment. I have never supported the murder and rape of females......the article was not about murder and rape.

Bonbf3 took offense where none was intended.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

If you are referring to your post I read it. My point is , if we are going to start rationing the number of children one can have then what is the number you would suggest? And who would be the one determining that number? And it seems to me that we would want those from the best gene pool. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting this just wondering how your theory would be implemented in practice. Help.

From my experience, Bonnie's family is acting much more responsibly than 70% of the population and you chose to denigrate what they were doing. And I'm sure you are a part of the 30% as well, as am I. I'd like to encourage the positive. Our county keeps a record of the trash pick up and percentages of recycling to encourage everyone to participate. Small though it may be to the overall universe, if nothing else it is bringing forth an awareness. And that is a good thing.


peacegoddess said:


> Read the article and then further inform yourself.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Not a myth. Check it out. It was discussed several pages back and site was noted where you could find the information.


Again, Stevens was killed Sept 11th. Assistance was denied THEN, TWICE.

The "article", not known facts, discussed the "thought" that Stevens MAY HAVE refused security detail in AUGUST when he had none. The ARB report did NOT reveal the "so-called facts" you continue to repeat.

The testimony by Hicks, who was probably the last person to speak to Stevens, during the attack in SEPT that killed Stevens and three others, spoke to the FACT that Steven's request(s) for help WERE DENIED.

Stevens was denied help when he NEEDED it. Any other requests/approvals/denials prior are meaningless other than to ? a change in procedures.

The refusal of the WH to deny back-up to a military battle plea and the WH's order to "stand down" is un-precedented and horrific.

Perhaps now you'll have a better understanding of the myth vs. the facts that can be gleaned from the very article you refer to.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Glad you find this so funny, but the joke is on you and her. The proper source was listed on the article posted. She was just too blind to see it. Or chose to be ignorant of it.
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Again, Stevens was killed Sept 11th. Assistance was denied THEN, TWICE.
> 
> The "article", not known facts, discussed the "thought" that Stevens MAY HAVE refused security detail in AUGUST when he had none. The ARB report did NOT reveal the "so-called facts" you continue to repeat.
> 
> ...


Was it refusal from the WH or from State Dept or CIA?
Can you prove your so called facts? No I don't believe any other facts before the attack are meaningless. They can help shed light on why there was not enough security there to begin with.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Doesn't matter now does it? The vote was 60% for. It's done.


Yep, and so is probably 80% of the support and funding to the organization. Very unfortunate for the boys, gay or straight.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, and so is probably 80% of the support and funding to the organization. Very unfortunate for the boys, gay or straight.


There will be new funding so I'm not concerned.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Bonnie I love your sense of humor. And your self deprecation endears you to all except perhaps the Goddess.



bonbf3 said:


> I agree. It will be an adjustment. Leaders and parents will have to be very wise to navigate these waters fairly. I just wish we could keep the sexual awareness for later years. I really wouldn't know how to handle the subject of homosexuality in childhood with a group of pre-teen children or even younger teens.
> 
> Kids get such mixed messages now - but that's another whole topic - and another whole can of worms to be opened! Not by me. No way. No no no.
> :shock:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

(quote)The refusal of the WH to deny back-up to a military battle plea and the WH's order to "stand down" is un-precedented and horrific.)

Unprecedented? In all the military history? I doubt it.

Horrific - maybe.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you have any integrity at all? You took my post cut and pasted and added words that were not there.


I did no such thing. I added informed and factual information from my travels, experiences and knowledge.

I copied/pasted ZERO words from the crap article you posted.

Where's your integrity to tell the truth? No one, but you, engages in double talk and hypocrisy for ALL to read.

Furthermore where's your decency to apologize for the hurt you inflicted to Bonbf3?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> If you are referring to your post I read it. My point is , if we are going to start rationing the number of children one can have then what is the number you would suggest? And who would be the one determining that number? And it seems to me that we would want those from the best gene pool. Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting this just wondering how your theory would be implemented in practice. Help.
> 
> From my experience, Bonnie's family is acting much more responsibly than 70% of the population and you chose to denigrate what they were doing. And I'm sure you are a part of the 30% as well, as am I. I'd like to encourage the positive. Our county keeps a record of the trash pick up and percentages of recycling to encourage everyone to participate. Small though it may be to the overall universe, if nothing else it is bringing forth an awareness. And that is a good thing.


It is a private decision for each person to make. Most people are not aware of the impact that one individual has on the environment.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Don't worry. You don't have to feel guilty, you just have to confess and do your penance, unless, of course you're a Protestant, agnostic, atheist, or practice any of the non-Christian religions that aren't so hard on you about your so-called sins. Ah, religion, what a tangled mess it can be to follow any particular one. Anyway, go ahead and enjoy yourself. :thumbup:


Uh, don't think you should be speaking on behalf of "Protestant" beliefs that you do not understand.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Sometimes your posts are so relevant that they warrant being repeating. Or perhaps you could condense your posts to two sentences.



SeattleSoul said:


> I posted this on "FF Wearing Denim and Pearls yeterday, and meant to post this here and on LOLL, but didn't get that far. I'm sure I've said this before, but after I scroll through what seems like miles of quotes this is how I feel. I hope all of you understand I'm trying to suggest something positive and constructive. I've already been bashed for this on "FF Wearing Denin and Pearls"...
> 
> "I think it's far easier to reference the post, where it is and go on from there with one's own remarks. I can say "Jane Doe, this is my response to your post about chicken noodle soup on page 57." Anyone who needs to read the post in question can easily do that. Maybe it's just my old brain not working too well, but when I scroll through some of the really long posts, I forget what I wanted to say in the first place. I don't think that helps maintain a good discussion. Try my idea out. You might find you like it. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you didn't need to quote my post as part of what you wanted to say to me. I remember what I posted. I'm just suggesting something I think would benefit all of us."


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Lovely thought and your opinion but not the reality. The post was public and meant for all to read/respond as desired. As PG, herself, stated, if she can't take the heat ....


But it was Bon who took offense(sorry Bon, best way to describe it) and then responded to PG so it then became an issue between them. How about we let them decide if they are okay with the result. Unless you just feel the need to continue to light the fire....


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh, don't think you should be speaking on behalf of "Protestant" beliefs that you do not understand.


You might want to clarify this sentence.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh, don't think you should be speaking on behalf of "Protestant" beliefs that you do not understand.


And you know the extent of my understanding how?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It was not an inference of greatness, you do not know what I think about China. It was an article written by someone pointing out the differences of consumption and effect of people on the environment. I have never supported the murder and rape of females......the article was not about murder and rape.
> 
> Bonbf3 took offense where none was intended.


Are you for real? You posted that particular article, which infers you support the way in which China controls both the population and environment. I told you how China actually controls their populace: by the murders, rapes, and abortions and infanticide.

You posted in particular to Bonbf3 when she mentioned the number of grandchildren she had. EVERYONE understood your intent, including Bonbf3, to address the population and environmental efforts of her own family.

Bonbf3 took great offense and told you so.

Accept responsibility for your actions and apologize for your arrogance.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> And you know the extent of my understanding how?


By what has been posted.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you for real? You posted that particular article, which infers you support the way in which China controls both the population and environment. I told you how China actually controls their populace: by the murders, rapes, and abortions and infanticide.
> 
> You posted in particular to Bonbf3 when she mentioned the number of grandchildren she had. EVERYONE understood your intent, including Bonbf3, to address the population and environmental efforts of her own family.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nor the impact of each individual cow which is greater than a human. And how does one subtract out the beneficial things that each individual does for the environment?

Just a thought.

And if it's left to be a private decision then we shouldn't even bring it into the mix or judge it. I agree it's a Private Decision.



peacegoddess said:


> It is a private decision for each person to make. Most people are not aware of the impact that one individual has on the environment.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It's easy, GW. She knows it all. :lol:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Or any other ones for that matter!



knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh, don't think you should be speaking on behalf of "Protestant" beliefs that you do not understand.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Or any other ones for that matter!


I don't think she did. It was rather a light-hearted post - certainly no reason to jump all over it. Lighten up folks. It's Friday!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Accept responsibility for your actions and apologize for your arrogance.


Arrogance--hmm, I'd think ordering people to apologize might fall into that category. Multiple thread members have spoken to you about this matter. You should heed their advice. Butt out.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Or any other ones for that matter!


And who are you to presume that she knows nothing about Protestant beliefs? My goodness, wouldn't it be easier to ask her what she does know about Protestant beliefs rather than sit and make assumptions?
Oh that's right, you know it all.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Sometimes your posts are so relevant that they warrant being repeating. Or perhaps you could condense your posts to two sentences.


I haven't said anything about reducing the length of posts. People have a lot to say and they get to take as much time and as many words as they see fit. If what you said is meant as a criticism, please try to be more clearer. Sometimes I miss the sarcasm in people's remarks.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Arrogance--hmm, I'd think ordering people to apologize might fall into that category. Multiple thread members have spoken to you about this matter. You should heed their advice. Butt out.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I posted this on "FF Wearing Denim and Pearls yeterday, and meant to post this here and on LOLL, but didn't get that far. I'm sure I've said this before, but after I scroll through what seems like miles of quotes this is how I feel. I hope all of you understand I'm trying to suggest something positive and constructive. I've already been bashed for this on "FF Wearing Denin and Pearls"...
> 
> "I think it's far easier to reference the post, where it is and go on from there with one's own remarks. I can say "Jane Doe, this is my response to your post about chicken noodle soup on page 57." Anyone who needs to read the post in question can easily do that. Maybe it's just my old brain not working too well, but when I scroll through some of the really long posts, I forget what I wanted to say in the first place. I don't think that helps maintain a good discussion. Try my idea out. You might find you like it. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but you didn't need to quote my post as part of what you wanted to say to me. I remember what I posted. I'm just suggesting something I think would benefit all of us."


It is confusing. I notice they got rid of the boxes, surely in an attempt to make it less so. I don't think this works too well either. There must be another way. Who's the computer guru?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And who are you to presume that she knows nothing about Protestant beliefs? My goodness, wouldn't it be easier to ask her what she does knows about Protestant beliefs rather than sit and make assumptions?
> Oh that's right, you know it all.


Good point, Patty. The problem with asking me what I know about Protestant beliefs is that it wouldn't be as much fun as taking me to task for supposed ignorance.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> (quote)The refusal of the WH to deny back-up to a military battle plea and the WH's order to "stand down" is un-precedented and horrific.)
> 
> Unprecedented? In all the military history? I doubt it.
> 
> Horrific - maybe.


Yes, unprecedented AND horrific. The American soldier has always known there is no doubt, none at all, and at all costs that assistance will come to you and NEVER be denied when engaged in battle and service of the USA .... until under this Commander-in-Chief.

Learn and inform yourself to remove your doubt.

It is of great importance and comfort to any Patriotic American citizen and particularly of any service member.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Bonnie I love your sense of humor. And your self deprecation endears you to all except perhaps the Goddess.


Thank you! That's very nice of you to say. Unfortunately my behavior is often a great source of hilarity.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It is confusing. I notice they got rid of the boxes, surely in an attempt to make it less so. I don't think this works too well either. There must be another way. Who's the computer guru?


Definitely not me!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, unprecedented AND horrific. The American soldier has always known there is no doubt, none at all, and at all costs that assistance will come to you and NEVER be denied when engaged in battle and service of the USA .... until under this Commander-in-Chief.
> 
> Learn and inform yourself to remove your doubt.
> 
> It is of great importance and comfort to any Patriotic American citizen and particularly of any service member.


Not that important to me.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Right, Susan. I am always shocked when people make comments on personal things like that. I had a neighbor who was scolded by a stranger for the way she was handling her kids. The worst I ever had was a clerk telling me my daughter was too old for a pacifier. Humph! :roll:
> 
> And people with no kids - oh, my gosh. That's dangerous ground - maybe they can't have kids, maybe they've lost kids, maybe they don't want kids for one reason or another. Some people love to mind other people's business. (Kind of like we do on here, come to think of it! )


I didn't mean the pacifier criticism was really bad. I meant I hadn't had people talk to me like that. When I took my kids out, people usually just stood there staring and frowning, shaking their heads in disbelief.

(Not really.)

(Well, sometimes.) :lol:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It is a private decision for each person to make. Most people are not aware of the impact that one individual has on the environment.


I'm goin' puke at your hypocrisy. :hunf:

It's private, yet you told us how to control our family size and its impact on the environment.

Do I have your permission to unload in the forest? I'm not sure how that would impact you, one individual, I think.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I didn't mean the pacifier criticism was really bad. I meant I hadn't had people talk to me like that. When I took my kids out, people usually just stood there staring and frowning, shaking their heads in disbelief.
> 
> (Not really.)
> 
> (Well, sometimes.) :lol:


Nothing wrong for standing up for your children and grandchilden. I am sure we would do that.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Sometimes your posts are so relevant that they warrant being repeating. Or perhaps you could condense your posts to two sentences.


 :shock:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

A clarification on my post to bonbf3.


It was an article comparing the relative environmental impact of a child in China to a child in the U S. It was used as an example of that and that only. Not an endorsement of China's social or political policies. 

I did not intend to insult bonbf3. She felt insulted, but I cannot control her reaction. If I had wanted to insult her I would not have enclosed the article. It was information only. 

bonbf3 I regret that you felt hurt and insulted. I bet your grandchildren give you great joy.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, I went back and reread the article about the impact of children on our carbon footprints and it's obvious several people misunderrstood it in a major way. The article makes a general suggestion that we try to reduce our carbon footprints, compared us with with China, and pointed out that each child we have impacts the environment more than most everything we do.

I found the article informative. I don't see any orders in it to have a certain number of children, and I don't see you giving any criticism about how many children anyone here on KP has. What I see is that people don't always read for meaning.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> You might want to clarify this sentence.


I don't feel the need. Thanks.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> And you know the extent of my understanding how?


I know only to the extent of the falsehood you made in your post about the Protestant faith.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm goin' puke at your hypocrisy. :hunf:
> 
> It's private, yet you told us how to control our family size and its impact on the environment.
> 
> Do I have your permission to unload in the forest? I'm not sure how that would impact you, one individual, I think.


You are unbelieveable. It was an article not written by peacegoddess, but an article on how to deal with environmental issues. Period. You however, can't let things go. It is between Bonnie and Peacegoddess. Why do you feel you have to keep kicking the dead horse?
By all means puke , as the rest of us are reading your posts.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Nothing wrong for standing up for your children and grandchilden. I am sure we would do that.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> By what has been posted.


 :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I will see your three and raise you by one: 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know only to the extent of the falsehood you made in your post about the Protestant faith.


I only made a suggestion. There are a few billion different Protestant sects and some just might be more liberal than others. That's "might be", not "they are". Suggestions generally aren't considered falsehoods. Now, if I had said Methodists believe in having orgies in the altar, that would be a falsehood. I think you need a new hobby to replace calling people liars. I hear knitting is supposed to be a lot of fun.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts,

I am sorry that people are so rude to you. You have my support. How sad they are.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you! That's very nice of you to say. Unfortunately my behavior is often a great source of hilarity.


I believe laughter is good for our souls; and I laugh a lot reading the craziness of the posts in this thread!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Not that important to me.


I can tell, but no American Patriot or American soldier would agree with you; just sayin'

That's exactly Hillary's attitude as well, "What does it matter, now."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, unprecedented AND horrific.


...if you put American lives above all else. Well frankly, I don't. I have few tears to shed over the creeps who were injured or killed attacking the embassy, but the lives of civilian women and children are an entirely different matter. How many would have died if the military had rushed in and launched a counter-attack with rockets and missiles? At least Stevens was there by choice. They weren't.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Maybe that is why the libs support abortions, less children less of a carbon footprint.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

From what I know people do not take religion light-heartedly and ss chose to pass judgement in an all inclusive manner. And it appeared to be a put-down of non-Catholic spirituality.

Some intended humor can be hurtful. Peace.



GWPlver said:


> I don't think she did. It was rather a light-hearted post - certainly no reason to jump all over it. Lighten up folks. It's Friday!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I can tell, but no American Patriot or American soldier would agree with you; just sayin'
> 
> That's exactly Hillary's attitude as well, "What does it matter, now."


I bet I can find a few.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> But it was Bon who took offense(sorry Bon, best way to describe it) and then responded to PG so it then became an issue between them. How about we let them decide if they are okay with the result. Unless you just feel the need to continue to light the fire....


Peace and I haven't discussed it. As far as I'm concerned, it's forgotten.

I appreciate the kindness and support.
Bonnie


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm goin' puke at your hypocrisy. :hunf:
> 
> It's private, yet you told us how to control our family size and its impact on the environment.
> 
> Do I have your permission to unload in the forest? I'm not sure how that would impact you, one individual, I think.


You could puke and unload in the forest - that would be a double whammy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> bonbf3 I regret that you felt hurt and insulted. I bet your grandchildren give you great joy.


I'm hopeful!!!!!  .... the apology is here! .... and then deflated. 

I hope bonbf3 will not accept the blame from PG for how she "felt."

I'm hopeful bonbf3 _will_ receive an apology forthwith and no more double speak.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I can tell, but no American Patriot or American soldier would agree with you; just sayin'
> 
> That's exactly Hillary's attitude as well, "What does it matter, now."


and the added words from Hillary , lets get beyond it.

What lovely thoughts from a women who wants to be the next president.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh maybe that is why they like Obamacare, Death Panels. Less seniors, less of a carbon footprint


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I will see your three and raise you by one:
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Good one, GW!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Nothing wrong for standing up for your children and grandchilden. I am sure we would do that.


 :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh maybe that is why they like Obamacare, Death Panels. Less seniors, less of a carbon footprint


Oh good one :XD: :XD: :XD


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> Did he turn it down or not and when is another question.
> I honestly don't know, will have to read more on it, but if ms lamb denied it, someone had to request it. Seems like something was talked about that the Libyans taking on more of it.
> 
> Seems everyone wants to blame someone instead of taking responsibility. Now so many stories are out there who know what the truth is. Say something enough times whether true or not someone just might believe it is true.


The State Department wanted to make the consulate more permanent, giving it more Embassy status. They also wanted to do it with less security as a show of good faith. This was probably the reason Stevens turned down the offered security. The Libyan gov't was to provide security of the consulate, so we could lower ours. This sort of backfired when the Libyans ran off during the attack.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> A clarification on my post to bonbf3.
> 
> It was an article comparing the relative environmental impact of a child in China to a child in the U S. It was used as an example of that and that only. Not an endorsement of China's social or political policies.
> 
> ...


They do. I must have misunderstood. Thank you for being the grown-up in our little dust-up.

There's one thing missing here. I'm sorry for making that crude remark.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm hopeful!!!!!  .... the apology is here! .... and then deflated.
> 
> I hope bonbf3 will not accept the blame from PG for how she "felt."
> 
> I'm hopeful bonbf3 _will_ receive an apology forthwith and no more double speak.


I'm hopeful you will drop the matter since Bonbf3 just posted. What is it with you?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm hopeful!!!!!  .... the apology is here! .... and then deflated.
> 
> I hope bonbf3 will not accept the blame from PG for how she "felt."
> 
> I'm hopeful bonbf3 _will_ receive an apology forthwith and no more double speak.


Well, we've all received our marching orders from the Super Patriot. Everybody hop to!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I will see your three and raise you by one:
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Someone - help me off the floor! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The State Department wanted to make the consulate more permanent, giving it more Embassy status. They also wanted to do it with less security as a show of good faith. This was probably the reason Stevens turned down the offered security. The Libyan gov't was to provide security of the consulate, so we could lower ours. This sort of backfired when the Libyans ran off during the attack.


First time I have heard this - thanks. Makes more sense doesn't it?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Why do you think I know it all? There are many things I don't know.

SS Please tell what you know about sin and other religions. Protestants- How are they not "so hard"? And what about Hindi and Buddhism and you can add the others you were thinking about including in the "non-Christian religions". Please briefly tell us.

There I've asked and the ball is in your court SS.



BrattyPatty said:


> And who are you to presume that she knows nothing about Protestant beliefs? My goodness, wouldn't it be easier to ask her what she does know about Protestant beliefs rather than sit and make assumptions?
> Oh that's right, you know it all.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've all received our marching orders from the Super Patriot. Everybody hop to!


Susan, I understand what you're saying. We've heard people word apologies like that when they really don't mean it. But I don't think that's the case here. I think Peacegoddess meant well by her recent post.

Thanks for standing up for me. I'd like to let bygones be bygones. She said her piece, and I said mine. Maybe it's best left alone now.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Susan, I understand what you're saying. We've heard people word apologies like that when they really don't mean it. But I don't think that's the case here. I think Peacegoddess meant well by her recent post.
> 
> Thanks for standing up for me. I'd like to let bygones be bygones. She said her piece, and I said mine. Maybe it's best left alone now.


You are awesome!!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm hopeful!!!!!  .... the apology is here! .... and then deflated.
> 
> I hope bonbf3 will not accept the blame from PG for how she "felt."
> 
> I'm hopeful bonbf3 _will_ receive an apology forthwith and no more double speak.


Just as I control how I feel about your posts. I can choose to be hurt or not.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nothing unfortunate about LAUGHTER. It keeps us young. Maybe that's why we do this.



bonbf3 said:


> Thank you! That's very nice of you to say. Unfortunately my behavior is often a great source of hilarity.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> I am sorry that people are so rude to you. You have my support. How sad they are.


Thank you, my friend. I've never seen so much contempt from people who do not know me, tell me who I am, hurl insults and have no comprehension of the facts and have nothing better to do than discuss their own disgust of me and others with whom they disagree.

Forget trying to have an intelligent debate!

You know, I won't be answering for them at their demise, any doubt how they'll fare?

Thanks for being a caring person. I appreciate you!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Did I hear correctly that the Immigration Reform is heading to the Senate? Anyone have any other info?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Nothing unfortunate about LAUGHTER. It keeps us young. Maybe that's why we do this.


I agree wholeheartedly! it's very healthy.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> My point is that just like psychological studies where subjects were shown the same pictures and other studies involving auditory stimulus. Subjects interpretation of what they saw or heard will be totally different.
> 
> A similar situation occurs when you watch a senate hearing and then listen to the nightly news tell you what you saw and you wonder were you watching the same thing??
> 
> Has that never happened to you?


Many police officers say they can have 10 eye witnesses to the same crime and have 10 different reports. It happens all the time.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts,

Just stay away from them. Their mental health is not good. There are good people on the site.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...if you put American lives above all else. Well frankly, I don't. I have few tears to shed over the creeps who were injured or killed attacking the embassy, but the lives of civilian women and children are an entirely different matter. How many would have died if the military had rushed in and launched a counter-attack with rockets and missiles? At least Stevens was there by choice. They weren't.


My mistake, I assumed you were an American. I was discussing the creed of the American military which puts American lives above all others in the time of war. Nothing to do with the deaths of any other citizens of other countries.

Also, Stevens was there on the appointment of Obama.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Funniest group of posts I've seen -----ever! Page 55, about half-way down, start with GWPlver 's thumbs-up. End with her last thumbs-up. 

Now that was clever - that was hilarious! That's what we need more of on here. Thanks to all who participated in that outrageous display of exuberance!

Take a look - it's worth it!

Oh - no - they've inserted other posts in between. Shoot! Well, some of you probably saw it. It was fun while it lasted. :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> From what I know people do not take religion light-heartedly and ss chose to pass judgement in an all inclusive manner. And it appeared to be a put-down of non-Catholic spirituality.
> 
> Some intended humor can be hurtful. Peace.


nailed it, pun not intended, RU


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The State Department wanted to make the consulate more permanent, giving it more Embassy status. They also wanted to do it with less security as a show of good faith. This was probably the reason Stevens turned down the offered security. The Libyan gov't was to provide security of the consulate, so we could lower ours. This sort of backfired when the Libyans ran off during the attack.


This makes sense and seems to tie in with something I read a couple of weeks ago, just in passing: that Stevens was concerned about security but even more worried that requesting more would make him look like a "wimp" (sorry--not my word).

If all this true then it would seem to put diplomats in "hot" countries in an impossible position. Embassies exist not only to protect the interests of Americans overseas, but also to make a good impression on host countries. And I doubt those governments look favorably on foreign diplomatic posts that resemble highly guarded stockades, complete with machine gun nests and rolls of barbed wire. Put all that stuff up to safeguard yourself, thereby offending your hosts. Take it down and risk hostile forces overwhelming you. Quite a dilemma.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Susan, I understand what you're saying. We've heard people word apologies like that when they really don't mean it. But I don't think that's the case here. I think Peacegoddess meant well by her recent post.
> 
> Thanks for standing up for me. I'd like to let bygones be bygones. She said her piece, and I said mine. Maybe it's best left alone now.


Thanks for your comments, Bonnie...actually I was referring to the words of our newest thread member knitforgifts (or whatever), who does seem a tad bossy (hey, I'm trying to be diplomatic). I'm truly very glad that you and peacegoddess worked thing out between yourselves. Thumbs up!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Funniest group of posts I've seen -----ever! Page 55, about half-way down, start with GWPlver 's thumbs-up. End with her last thumbs-up.
> 
> Now that was clever - that was hilarious! That's what we need more of on here. Thanks to all who participated in that outrageous display of exuberance!
> 
> ...


Thank you, thank you......I'll be here all day...........


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My brother was almost raped by a gay scout master 44 years ago. What in the heck would someone want a gay scout master in with innocent boys? Turns my stomach. I have a brother , 2 sons, 4 grandboys. I would never put them in with that kind of man as a leader! I have watched all of them like I have my girls. What the heck are yall thinking?????!!!! I won't let my 10yo go in a men's bathroom by himself. Why ask for trouble? It is an abomination to God! Don't say anything to me about this either. I raised a gay boy from church I love Scott like my own son but I hate the sin . It is wrong!


CB, the new rules apply to the kids only, not to the scout leaders. They will not be having any gay leaders.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I'm hopeful you will drop the matter since Bonbf3 just posted. What is it with you?


I'm not as quick as posting as you are apparently. I posted when able which obviously came in immediately after bonf3's posting.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've all received our marching orders from the Super Patriot. Everybody hop to!


One can hope you are grateful to those who serve(d) rather than the animosity you portrayed here particularly on the start of Memorial weekend.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Thank you, thank you......I'll be here all day...........


Where's that "Applause" sign!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> One can hope you are grateful to those who serve(d) than the animosity you posted here particularly on the start of Memorial weekend.


Huh? SP, your transmission is breaking up.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Arrogance--hmm, I'd think ordering people to apologize might fall into that category. Multiple thread members have spoken to you about this matter. You should heed their advice. Butt out.


What category does ordering people to butt out fall? Perhaps you should take your own advice.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Huh? SP, your transmission is breaking up.


I'll be happy to provide lots of info about the disgrace of how military members are not receiving their salaries, cuts so deep that they defend w/out weapons and equipment, vets and wounded warriors who do not receive the healthcare, services or comp promised them, the horrors of bankrupt military families who serve yet cannot feed nor support their families on the salaries they earn. Least I forget, the highest suicide rate.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> This makes sense and seems to tie in with something I read a couple of weeks ago, just in passing: that Stevens was concerned about security but even more worried that requesting more would make him look like a "wimp" (sorry--not my word).


It had nothing to do with Stevens looking "whimpy". It had to do with the foreign policy the administration wants to portray to the area.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll be happy to provide lots of info about the disgrace of how military members are not receiving their salaries, cuts so deep that they defend w/out weapons and equipment, vets and wounded warriors who do not receive the healthcare, services or comp promised them, the horrors of bankrupt military families who serve yet cannot feed nor support their families on the salaries they earn. Least I forget, the highest suicide rate.


No truer words have been spoken. People are more concern with other things then what is happening to those in uniform of the United States.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> From what I know people do not take religion light-heartedly and ss chose to pass judgement in an all inclusive manner. And it appeared to be a put-down of non-Catholic spirituality.
> Some intended humor can be hurtful. Peace.


Appearances can be deceiving. I didn't pass judgment on anything. And I certainly didn't put down Catholic spirituality. I do believe they concern themselve over sin more than some other religions and believe that's a good thing. If you were hurt it is because you forgot to read for meaning instead for fodder to critisize me for wrongs you have imagined.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll be happy to provide lots of info about the disgrace of how military members are not receiving their salaries, cuts so deep that they defend w/out weapons and equipment, vets and wounded warriors who do not receive the healthcare, services or comp promised them, the horrors of bankrupt military families who serve yet cannot feed nor support their families on the salaries they earn. Least I forget, the highest suicide rate.


So how do you solve these problems? Would increasing taxes assist them?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Why do you think I know it all? There are many things I don't know.
> 
> SS Please tell what you know about sin and other religions. Protestants- How are they not "so hard"? And what about Hindi and Buddhism and you can add the others you were thinking about including in the "non-Christian religions". Please briefly tell us.
> 
> There I've asked and the ball is in your court SS.


Oh, more silliness. If you want me to tell you what all Protestants believe I will be dead before I scratch the surface as there are so many different Protestant sects. You know good and well I'm not going to play ball with you. I will, however, pray that your skills at reading for meaning will improve.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> So how do you solve these problems? Would increasing taxes assist them?


Since you told me earlier, you're not much interested in learning about the military, I'll not respond.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> No truer words have been spoken. People are more concern with other things then what is happening to those in uniform of the United States.


I think there is so much to be concerned with lately that we tend to care about areas that affect us directly. I don't think it means no one cares about those in uniform but there is only so much that an individual can do or deal with at one time.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Since you told me earlier, you're not much interested in learning about the military, I'll not respond.


Works for me.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I'd been getting a bit bored and disappointed with the lower levels of vitriol on this thread. Thanks to all who have stepped up. I appreciate the effort.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> CB, the new rules apply to the kids only, not to the scout leaders. They will not be having any gay leaders.


I realized that after my rant. Thanks soloweygirl. But it will be what they want next. Just sayin


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'd been getting a bit bored and disappointed with the lower levels of vitriol on this thread. Thanks to all who have stepped up. I appreciate the effort.


Yes, the introduction of the Super Patriot into the strip will probably get our syndication renewed. There's no way this character can be for real. S/he seems like a modern-day version of Don Novello's Lazlo Toth.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/oldguard?ref=stream This takes my breath away. God Bless our Soldiers. This weekend is all about them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll be happy to provide lots of info about the disgrace of how military members are not receiving their salaries, cuts so deep that they defend w/out weapons and equipment, vets and wounded warriors who do not receive the healthcare, services or comp promised them, the horrors of bankrupt military families who serve yet cannot feed nor support their families on the salaries they earn. Least I forget, the highest suicide rate.


And while you are at it, why don't you come up with some numbers on how many women in the military are raped or sexually assaulted by their male subordinates, officers and colleagues.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you, my friend. I've never seen so much contempt from people who do not know me, tell me who I am, hurl insults and have no comprehension of the facts and have nothing better to do than discuss their own disgust of me and others with whom they disagree.
> 
> Forget trying to have an intelligent debate!
> 
> ...


Pulling up that older post should have been rather self serving for you. To me you are a common troll who has come here to preach your pompous patriotism and nonsense. We'll worry about our own demise, and will fare just finely. 
I have been called a troll myself, but unlike you, I had been posting for 18 months in all forums. I didn't sign up and post in a particular thread that is somewhat contentious as you have. Nor have I lied about being new here as you have. If you couldn't figure out how to quote a reply, how on earth did you manage to post a picture? You are not fooling anyone here except maybe Lukelucy.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts,

Stay as you are. You are supported.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> Stay as you are. You are supported.


You were right, Patty. They make an adorable couple.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> https://www.facebook.com/oldguard?ref=stream This takes my breath away. God Bless our Soldiers. This weekend is all about them.


Fox has a story right now about Bush's yearly bike ride for wounded warriors. They're interviewing President Bush and someof the vets. Very inspiring.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> Stay as you are. You are supported.


A recent member posting said it best. These losers exist and post in this thread with the sole purpose to ignite hate.

What a way to live, if they can even call it that.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Fox has a story right now about Bush's yearly bike ride for wounded warriors. They're interviewing President Bush and someof the vets. Very inspiring.


sssh, the folks on this thread don't want to hear anything about that nor the military. Get ready to be scolded and called some ridiculous name.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> sssh, the folks on this thread don't want to hear anything about that nor the military. Get ready to be scolded and called some ridiculous name.


 :shock:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty If you couldn't figure out how to quote a reply said:


> 1) i've never had a problem figuring out how to quote a reply, funny how your mind questions that,
> 
> 2) perhaps because I'm more computer literate than you and a quicker study?
> 
> I'll go back to my desire not to respond to you, please follow suit.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll go back to my desire not to respond to you, please follow suit.


Nah, you're much too entertaining to ignore.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A recent member posting said it best. These losers exist and post in this thread with the sole purpose to ignite hate.
> 
> What a way to live, if they can even call it that.


Yep that pretty much describes you!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Pulling up that older post should have been rather self serving for you. To me you are a common troll who has come here to preach your pompous patriotism and nonsense. We'll worry about our own demise, and will fare just finely.
> I have been called a troll myself, but unlike you, I had been posting for 18 months in all forums. I didn't sign up and post in a particular thread that is somewhat contentious as you have. Nor have I lied about being new here as you have. If you couldn't figure out how to quote a reply, how on earth did you manage to post a picture? You are not fooling anyone here except maybe Lukelucy.


Troll, oh no back to the nasty name calling, typical

Love how Obama disrespected the Marine by failure to salute. Proof of his arrogant disrespect of the military. He is the Commander in Chief, yet a Private would never have done that, they know better.

Love how Holder is in even deeper sneakers today, signing the order to get the wire taps on the Fox news reporter. I thought he said a week or so ago he had no knowledge of that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Troll, oh no back to the nasty name calling, typical
> 
> Love how Obama disrespected the Marine by failure to salute. Proof of his arrogant disrespect of the military. He is the Commander in Chief, yet a Private would never have done that, they know better.
> 
> Love how Holder is in even deeper sneakers today, signing the order to get the wire taps on the Fox news reporter. I thought he said a week or so ago he had no knowledge of that.


Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Troll, oh no back to the nasty name calling, typical
> 
> Love how Obama disrespected the Marine by failure to salute. Proof of his arrogant disrespect of the military.


Didn't see that yet, was the Marine in uniform? Assume he was since you knew he was a Marine.

Agree, Holder keeps sinking deeper and deeper.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute.


You don't have a clue about military protocol, with that statement, so stop pontificating. Makes you look ignorant.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute.


Since when?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have a clue about military protocol, with that statement, so stop pontificating. Makes you look ignorant.


Am I wrong, but isn't it protocol that the Commander In Chief salute a man in uniform and saluted back? I could see that mistake the first day on the job, but after 5 years you would think he would have more respect for the military?

But he didn't care about the ambassador, so not surprised, just sick to see his disregard for protocol, especially on Memorial Day Weekend. Pathetic


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Since when?


Since 1981. This from Free Republic:

It raised eyebrows back in 1981 when new President Ronald Reagan began returning the military salutes of the servicemen standing guard when he'd disembark from Air Force One or from Marine 1, the helicopter that would deliver him to the White House lawn.

No presidents before had returned those salutes, not even Dwight D. Eisenhower, who just seven years before he took office had been a five-star Army general. Reagan, who had held the rank of captain in the Army Air Corps during World War II, changed all that and every president since, including our present one, renders the salute.

Although it was far from the biggest issue of the day, many commentators did question the practice at the time, pointing out that while, yes, the president was commander in chief of the military, he wasn't a military person himself and by saluting was insinuating that he was.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have a clue about military protocol, with that statement, so stop pontificating. Makes you look ignorant.


No more than you, Tin Man.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Looks like TM hasn't a clue either along with off2knit.

3. SALUTING. A RECENT CHANGE TO THE LAW HAS AUTHORIZED ACTIVE DUTY AND RETIRED SERVICEMEMBERS TO SALUTE THE NATIONAL COLORS, WHETHER COVERED OR UNCOVERED, INDOORS OR OUT. BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION, MARINES DO NOT RENDER THE HAND SALUTE WHEN OUT OF UNIFORM OR WHEN UNCOVERED. LET THERE BE NO CONFUSION; THAT HAS NOT CHANGED. DURING THE PLAYING OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR THE RAISING, LOWERING, OR PASSING OF THE NATIONAL FLAG, MARINES WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW NAVAL TRADITIONS AND THE POLICY / PROCEDURES CONTAINED IN REFERENCE (A). SPECIFICALLY, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL FACE THE FLAG, STAND AT ATTENTION, AND PLACE THE RIGHT HAND OVER THE HEART. IF COVERED, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL REMOVE THEIR HEADGEAR WITH THE RIGHT HAND AND PLACE THEIR RIGHT HAND OVER THEIR HEART. WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, MARINES WILL ACT IN THE SAME MANNER WHILE FACING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC. IN CASES SUCH AS INDOOR CEREMONIES, WHEN MARINES ARE IN UNIFORM AND UNCOVERED, THEY WILL FACE THE FLAG, OR THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, AND STAND AT ATTENTION.
These rules pertain to the army as well.

The President is not required to salute anybody, but may choose to do so as a courtesy.
Off2knit, why didn't you finish the story?You conveniently forgot to mention that President Obama came back down the stairs of Marine 1 and shook hands with the Marine and had a brief conversation with him.

Aren't your teeth tired from picking nits?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't have a clue about military protocol, with that statement, so stop pontificating. Makes you look ignorant.


And after this statement you look even more ignorant. I guess she/he doesn't know as much as as it claims to know.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

It? Can something constructed out of old tin cans have a gender?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Am I wrong, but isn't it protocol that the Commander In Chief salute a man in uniform and saluted back? I could see that mistake the first day on the job, but after 5 years you would think he would have more respect for the military?
> 
> But he didn't care about the ambassador, so not surprised, just sick to see his disregard for protocol, especially on Memorial Day Weekend. Pathetic


Half the time he doesn't put his hand over his heart either during the playing of the National Anthem. Michelle doesn't either.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Aren't your teeth tired from picking nits?


Could be--but maybe she'll run out of body hairs to search before that happens.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Am I wrong, but isn't it protocol that the Commander In Chief salute a man in uniform and saluted back?
> 
> But he didn't care about the ambassador, so not surprised, just sick to see his disregard for protocol, especially on Memorial Day Weekend. Pathetic


The subordinate salutes first. The marine in uniform is required to salute the President. Of course, President Obama, does not ever wear a uniform since he never served in the military, but the President must be saluted by the uniformed member.

Presidents for decades have returned the salute as a sign of respect and acknowledgment. To not do so is a lack of respect to the uniformed member and duly noted. The President is not required to return the salute, but I cannot remember the last time a President did not.

If President Obama did not return the Marine's salute it is very disrespectful to the Marine and the military. I wouldn't be surprised if that Marine will never be in that position again.

I could say more but will refrain from my opinion and the aftermath.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The President is not required to return the salute, but I cannot remember the last time a President did not.


Chalk it up to memory loss. No President before Reagan returned the salute--in fact, the military brass was disturbed when Ronnie took it upon himself to change that tradition.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The subordinate salutes first. The marine in uniform is required to salute the President. Of course, President Obama, does not ever wear a uniform since he never served in the military, but the President must be saluted by the uniformed member.
> 
> Presidents for decades have returned the salute as a sign of respect and acknowledgment. To not do so is a lack of respect to the uniformed member and duly noted. The President is not required to return the salute, but I cannot remember the last time a President did not.
> 
> ...


Then you must be very old and senile. Bush skipped many a salute.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Could be--but maybe she'll run out of body hairs to search first.


Looks like tin man or whatever it is doesn't have a clue. Just a lot of hot air and that's about it. I think Mr. Bluster would be an appropriate name for such a thing.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No more than you, Tin Man.


EVER been to a concert where the attendees are in street attire and seen people salute the flag during the playing of the National Anthem or stand at attention?

It is respectful people OUT OF UNIFORM, saluting. I bet they removed their hats too.

You've probably not ever noticed knowing what little I do about you, since you have no respect for the military, others or yourself.

Your own post, in all your glory, spoke about Reagan saluting while out of uniform. Thanks for proving my point and your ignorance.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then you must be very old and senile. Bush skipped many a salute.


Patty is there a lot of hot air blowing around tonight or just my imagination?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute.


Please everyone notice how susanmos2000 refuted herself with her source. Brilliant! :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Half the time he doesn't put his hand over his heart either during the playing of the National Anthem. Michelle doesn't either.


Remember Michelle's quote during inauguration, "All this for a damn flag." Nice touch, huh?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EVER been to a concert where the attendees are in street attire and seen people salute the flag during the playing of the National Anthem or stand at attention?
> 
> It is respectful people OUT OF UNIFORM, saluting. I bet they removed their hats too.
> 
> ...


You sir are a big old nasty bag of hot air just huffing and puffing and signifying nothing. You have threatened to leave many times and yet you obviously can't resist coming out here. So why don't you be a man of your word and leave already. I can assure you no one would miss you. You are the same old insignificant gnat you always were and your comments may be of interest to only one person and that would be you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Chalk it up to memory loss. No President before Reagan returned the salute--in fact, the military brass was disturbed when Ronnie took it upon himself to change that tradition.


keep on reading your trash susan. I cannot remember because I'm not an old biddy like some I know.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Don't you mean I failed to read your mind? I can read things to the 100th power more difficult than anything you have posted. Please give me the meaning of how Hindi and Buddhism relate to your idea of "sin". I need your help with the meaning instead of the fodder to criticize or did you mean critisize? Thanks.



SeattleSoul said:


> Appearances can be deceiving. I didn't pass judgment on anything. And I certainly didn't put down Catholic spirituality. I do believe they concern themselve over sin more than some other religions and believe that's a good thing. If you were hurt it is because you forgot to read for meaning instead for fodder to critisize me for wrongs you have imagined.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You sir are a big old nasty bag of hot air just huffing and puffing and signifying nothing. You have threatened to leave many times and yet you obviously can't resist coming out here. So why don't you be a man of your word and leave already.


Really, show me. Copy and paste where I've EVER said same.

I'll wait.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Half the time he doesn't put his hand over his heart either during the playing of the National Anthem. Michelle doesn't either.


It isn't required you two enligtened ones it's optional. Educate yourselves.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Please everyone notice how susanmos2000 refuted herself with her source. Brilliant! :thumbup:


No she didn't. The subject was about military having to salute while in civilian clothes. Good try, but it isn't going to work.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really, show me. Copy and paste where I've EVER said same.
> 
> I'll wait.


Oh my you heave out such vast amounts of hot air you probably get light headed and pumping up that weak little chest of yours. Did the military reject you when you went to signed up? You prove me wrong Mr. Bluster. Lets see what you've got?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The subordinate salutes first. The marine in uniform is required to salute the President. Of course, President Obama, does not ever wear a uniform since he never served in the military, but the President must be saluted by the uniformed member.
> 
> Presidents for decades have returned the salute as a sign of respect and acknowledgment. To not do so is a lack of respect to the uniformed member and duly noted. The President is not required to return the salute, but I cannot remember the last time a President did not.
> 
> ...


WE thank you for that. There is already enough hot air blowng out of you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she didn't. The subject was about military having to salute while in civilian clothes. Good try, but it isn't going to work.


Patty, he is so full of the brown smelly stuff he is starting to believe all that C--P. What a hoot! He's twisting and turning now. Doesn't even know which way is up.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> keep on reading your trash susan. I cannot remember because I'm not an old biddy like some I know.


Maybe not--I'm sure regular dunkings in the family oil well keeps your joints well lubricated.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It isn't required you two enligtened ones it's optional. Educate yourselves.


I don't need the education you think you have.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty, he is so full of the brown smelly stuff he is starting to believe all that C--P. What a hoot! He's twisting and turning now. Doesn't even know which way is up.


I get that same impression--think he's about to pull a Yarnie.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty, he is so full of the brown smelly stuff he is starting to believe all that C--P. What a hoot! He's twisting and turning now. Doesn't even know which way is up.


And he/she bragged about being well educated about the military. OOPS!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Really, show me. Copy and paste where I've EVER said same.
> 
> I'll wait.


You know you did and so does everyone else. What a drama queen you are. I'm going to leave this site and never return again!
followed by a big sigh. it's all over the thread little tin man. You are a riot.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You can't even explain what you were so quick to state generally, so you have no creditability from me. I'm really disappointed in you. I thought you could give me some clarity because quite frankly I have no idea what I am unable to read for meaning and it seems you are unwilling to help me understand. Guess I expected more honesty from you.

You make broad generalizations and then you are unable to defend them.



SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, more silliness. If you want me to tell you what all Protestants believe I will be dead before I scratch the surface as there are so many different Protestant sects. You know good and well I'm not going to play ball with you. I will, however, pray that your skills at reading for meaning will improve.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> keep on reading your trash susan. I cannot remember because I'm not an old biddy like some I know.


You just can't admit when you are wrong!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And he/she bragged about being well educated about the military. OOPS!


I can't believe the extent he will go to for attention. Poor poor Mr. Bluster. You run back home and tell all the people over there how all those bad women picked on you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

It's definitive and official! BP cannot comprehend that which she reads.

Susan said this, "Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute."

Susan's source said this, " ... in 1981 when new President Ronald Reagan began returning the military salutes of the servicemen standing guard when he'd disembark from Air Force One or from Marine 1." and, " ... he wasn't a military person himself."

Reagan was a *civilian* AND *not in uniform*, yet according to susan's source, began the practice of the salute by a President.

Reagan returned salutes!

So, I repeat, Susan proved herself *clueless!*

Thank you susan. My job is done.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Poor poor Mr. Bluster. You run back home and tell all the people over there how all those bad women picked on you and they can kiss your boo boos.


Bleah--what an act of charity on their part!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh my you heave out such vast amounts of hot air you probably get light headed and pumping up that weak little chest of yours. Did the military reject you when you went to signed up? You prove me wrong Mr. Bluster. Lets see what you've got?


still waiting for the proof .......


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't the need the education you think you have.


 :thumbup: Can you believe what we must deal with?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, can't believe how nasty they are. Terrible.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You know you did and so does everyone else. What a drama queen you are. I'm going to leave this site and never return again!
> followed by a big sigh. it's all over the thread little tin man. You are a riot.


..... still waiting for _any_ proof ..... shouldn't be too difficult for you since I've only joined probably three days ago.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, can't believe how nasty they are. Terrible.


And here's Lukelucy rushing to the scene...gosh, what a surprise. Pucker up, sweetheart....there's work to be done by the faithful sidekick.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What a drama queen you are.


I'm a man, to you, so address me as a drama King please. Thank You.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Can you believe what we must deal with?


Actually, you don't have to deal with it. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I get that same impression--think he's about to pull a Yarnie.


If you start that mess again I am turning you into admin! Watch me missy!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> You make broad generalizations and then you are unable to defend them.


There's an awful lot of that in this thread! :-o


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If you start that mess again I am turning you into admin! Watch me missy!


OK, you have my full attention. Go to it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Remember Michelle's quote during inauguration, "All this for a damn flag." Nice touch, huh?


Total BS. Expected out of you though.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/ss/Michelle-Obama-Vs-The-U-S-Flag.htm


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Total BS. Expected out of you though.
> 
> http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/ss/Michelle-Obama-Vs-The-U-S-Flag.htm


I know--proof that the righties have been on the warpath since, literally, Day One. Pathetic.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't the need the education you think you have.


You are just jealous bumpkin and that's your problem not mine.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> There's an awful lot of that in this thread! :-o


Yes you would know 'cause it's coming from you. It's what is called blow back. It goes along with blow hard and that would be you.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, you have my full attention. Go to it.


Susan you just remember I am right I am always right. You may want to be careful, the FBI and CIA may be on to you.

Any one want to pull a Susan? All you have to do is lie, and then lie to cover up your lies, Watch her nose grow it is getting longer pinocchio. :shock:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ..... still waiting for _any_ proof ..... shouldn't be too difficult for you since I've only joined probably three days ago.


Come on tin man prove me wrong. You are the one who thinks he is so smart.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are just jealous bumpkin and that's your problem not mine.


Bless your heart LillyCon . Not jealous of anyone. I haven't a problem in the world.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Actually, you don't have to deal with it. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


Worth repeating so you can get grasp it this time: perhaps if you read more carefully? I've also taught myself how to use formatting as well to assist.

It's definitive and official! BP cannot comprehend that which she reads.

Susan said this, "Get a clue. Those not in uniform, whether civilians or military personnel, do not salute."

Susan's source said this, " ... in 1981 when new President Ronald Reagan began returning the military salutes of the servicemen standing guard when he'd disembark from Air Force One or from Marine 1." and, " ... he wasn't a military person himself."

Reagan was a *civilian* AND *not in uniform*, yet according to susan's source, began the practice of the salute by a President.

Reagan returned salutes!

So, I repeat, *Susan proved herself clueless! *

Thank you susan. My job is done.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bless you heart LillyCon . Not jealous of anyone. I haven't a problem in the world.


What has she got to be jealous of ??? Would seem to be the other way around to me. You only wish you could be so kind and be loved by others and respected as much as she is.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Worth repeating so you can get grasp it this time: perhaps if you read more carefully? I've also taught myself how to use formatting as well to assist.
> 
> It's definitive and official! BP cannot comprehend that which she reads.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If you start that mess again I am turning you into admin! Watch me missy!


I don't understand nor want to; sounds mean.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> What has she got to be jealous of ??? Would seem to be the other way around to me. You only wish you could be so kind and be loved by others and respected as much as she is.


Thank you sweet friend. SmoochXXX


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes you would know 'cause it's coming from you. It's what is called blow back. It goes along with blow hard and that would be you.


.... and still waiting .... blow back your proof ..... waiting


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Susan you just remember I am right I am always right. You may want to be careful, the FBI and CIA may be on to you.
> 
> Any one want to pull a Susan? All you have to do is lie, and then lie to cover up your lies, Watch her nose grow it is getting longer pinocchio. :shock:


Old, Yarnie. Can't you come up with something better?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thank you sweet friend. SmoochXXX


Ugh! Someone alert the Scouts--I think I've been flash blinded.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm a man, to you, so address me as a drama King please. Thank You.


No I like my version better.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't understand nor want to; sounds mean.


Not to worry not mean really see the issue button on bottom of post. There is a lady on the left that uses it a lot on the women on the right. It's like a game to them.

We have yet to use it, but when push comes to shove may start using the lady's trick right back on her.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Susan you just remember I am right I am always right. You may want to be careful, the FBI and CIA may be on to you.
> 
> Any one want to pull a Susan? All you have to do is lie, and then lie to cover up your lies, Watch her nose grow it is getting longer pinocchio. :shock:


Yes, but Susan likes to prove herself clueless. Amazing, but I've shown she did, in fact, pull it off for us to read.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Come on tin man prove me wrong. You are the one who thinks he is so smart.


Guess you're just a blubbering ole fool as you cannot offer proof for a single thing you repeatedly claim about me.

OK, you can take your ball and go home now.

Just make sure your tail stays behind you.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Old, Yarnie. Can't you come up with something better?


I don't have to sweetie, I just let you roll in your own little world of lies. It to much fun watching you come up with the next whooper.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't understand nor want to; sounds mean.


Yes you are right . I am not like that. I will let God deal with her. I will just pray for her . Thanks knitpresentgifts. :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't have to sweetie, I just let you roll in your own little world of lies. It to much fun watching you come up with the next whooper.


"Whooper"? Think something's get scrambled on your side of the wire. Care to try again?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> What has she got to be jealous of ??? Would seem to be the other way around to me. You only wish you could be so kind and be loved by others and respected as much as she is.


More true words could not be spoken. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> More true words could not be spoken. :thumbup:


Awww thanks girls. So nice to have sweet friends. :-o


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ugh! Someone alert the Scouts--I think I've been flash blinded.


Flash blinded and Clueless - not a good combination.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No I like my version better.


You are reaaaallllly s - l - o - w. Where's my Proof?

Hoorah and Salute! Cheeky has left the building and deposited no proof on her way out.

Have a Great and Blessed weekend friends.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are reaaaallllly s - l - o - w. Where's my Proof?
> 
> Hoorah and Salute! Cheeky has left the building and deposited no proof on her way out.
> 
> Have a Great and Blessed weekend friends.


you have a Blessed Weekend to.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> What has she got to be jealous of ??? Would seem to be the other way around to me. You only wish you could be so kind and be loved by others and respected as much as she is.


Yes, CB is kind, loved, and respected - as are you, Yarnie.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And you are blowviating. How about cutting it?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes you would know 'cause it's coming from you. It's what is called blow back. It goes along with blow hard and that would be you.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Peacegoddess, I went back and reread the article about the impact of children on our carbon footprints and it's obvious several people misunderrstood it in a major way. The article makes a general suggestion that we try to reduce our carbon footprints, compared us with with China, and pointed out that each child we have impacts the environment more than most everything we do.
> 
> I found the article informative. I don't see any orders in it to have a certain number of children, and I don't see you giving any criticism about how many children anyone here on KP has. What I see is that people don't always read for meaning.


SS - the meaning of a post is affected by it's context as well as it's specific wording. This particular article was introduced with a specific reference to Bon having a "bunch" of grandchildren and previous comment on bon's SIL's job and their family efforts to be environmental stewards. When all read together, the context had a very clear offensive tone to me, but it was not directed to me so I felt it was up to Bonnie to make her own response.

I think most people reading those posts in 1 sitting would have linked the subjects in their mind and believed that peacegoddess was critical of Bonnie's large family. This would have been further reinforced if people recalled PG's previous posts about children being a negative impact on the enviornment


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> What has she got to be jealous of ??? Would seem to be the other way around to me. You only wish you could be so kind and be loved by others and respected as much as she is.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

WOW the filth that is spewed by the left was unbelievable last night. Between the slanderous comments made to other people, talk of lice, excrement, yelling and body hair, I can't believe they kiss children with those lips. But that is to be expected from a group of angry and frustrated women from the left, can't communicate except with vicious anger. I believe this describes the left the best:

First they ignore you. 
Then they ridicule you. 
Then they fight you. 
Then you win. 
- Mahatma Ghandi


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> SS - the meaning of a post is affected by it's context as well as it's specific wording. This particular article was introduced with a specific reference to Bon having a "bunch" of grandchildren and previous comment on bon's SIL's job and their family efforts to be environmental stewards. When all read together, the context had a very clear offensive tone to me, but it was not directed to me so I felt it was up to Bonnie to make her own response.
> 
> I think most people reading those posts in 1 sitting would have linked the subjects in thei mind and believed that peacegoddess was critical of Bonnie's large family. This would have been further reinforced if people recalled PG's previous posts about children being a negative impact on the enviornment


I read the posts in one sitting. Peacegoddess wasnt critisizing the size Bonbf3's family. She posted an article giving information about the best way to reduce our carbon footprints, which is to have fewer children. Bonbf3 felt she was being critisized about the size of her family and all they do to lower their impact on the environment. She and peacegoddess have resolved their misunderstang already. There was no offensive tone in what peacegoddess said.

Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.

Peacegoddess, I hope I haven't been putting words in your mouth.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.

Why would Bonnie want to go back in time and change her family? Which child should be euthanize to save the environment? 

So SS, children are nothing but carbon creating beings that will create "global warming". What should a family do then if they are so concerned about the environment and find out that God blessed them with quadruplets? Should they have selective abortions so that they are more environmentally friendly?

Your statement, in my opinion, showed to me how the environmental wacko's think, and that is sickening


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> SS - the meaning of a post is affected by it's context as well as it's specific wording. This particular article was introduced with a specific reference to Bon having a "bunch" of grandchildren and previous comment on bon's SIL's job and their family efforts to be environmental stewards. When all read together, the context had a very clear offensive tone to me, but it was not directed to me so I felt it was up to Bonnie to make her own response.
> 
> I think most people reading those posts in 1 sitting would have linked the subjects in their mind and believed that peacegoddess was critical of Bonnie's large family. This would have been further reinforced if people recalled PG's previous posts about children being a negative impact on the enviornment


I agree, west coast kitty. Thank you very much.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Why would Bonnie want to go back in time and change her family? Which child should be euthanize to save the environment? ...What should a family do then if they are so concerned about the environment and find out that God blessed them with quadruplets?...Your statement, in my opinion, showed to me how the environmental wacko's think, and that is sickening


I've only quote part of what you said, to hit the high points of your post. It is absurd to interpret what I said about Bonnie going back in time to change the size of her family to mean she should get rid of any of her children. The point is that she has the family she has and that can't be changed even if Bonnie wanted to change the size of her family. She seems to be very proud of her children, and to love them dearly. No one can or should want to change that. I certainly don't want to do that.

If a couple finds they are going to have quadruplets, I hope they will feel four times as blessed as they would if they found they were going to have one child. As a person who is ardently pro-life, as I've said before, I think the quadruplets you imagine should be born, loved and cherished. We don't have control over that kind of thing, and it doesn't happen very often.

If what I've said here shows you how "wacko environmentalists" think, I have to say you haven't understood what I've said at all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I think all this shows that we bring all our own past experiences and present feelings to everything we do. Peacegoddess and I share some experiences and are different in others. She meant one thing, and I interpreted another. It's really as simple as that. It happens a lot with the written word that has no accompanying tone of voice or facial expression - or immediate response and clarification. If we had been talking face-to-face, there would have been no misunderstanding OR it would have been quickly resolved.

That could be the case with a lot of our disagreements on here.

That's my take on it after a few days have gone by.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I've only quote part of what you said, to hit the high points of your post. It is absurd to interpret what I said about Bonnie going back in time to change the size of her family to mean she should get rid of any of her children. The point is that she has the family she has and that can't be changed even if Bonnie wanted to change the size of her family. She seems to be very proud of her children, and to love them dearly. No one can or should want to change that. I certainly don't want to do that.
> 
> If a couple finds they are going to have quadruplets, I hope they will feel four times as blessed as they would if they found they were going to have one child. As a person who is ardently pro-life, as I've said before, I think the quadruplets you imagine should be born, loved and cherished. We don't have control over that kind of thing, and it doesn't happen very often.
> 
> If what I've said here shows you how "wacko environmentalists" think, I have to say you haven't understood what I've said at all.


So what is the difference of being blessed with quadruplets versus having 4 pregnancies? Four children are four blessings. I can not for the life of me thinking the reason not to have another wanted child because you have so much love to share, but not do it because of a 'carbon footprint' that child will produce. Think of what great people won't grace us because they wouldn't have been born all for the wacko cause of global warming.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> If we had been talking face-to-face, there would have been no misunderstanding OR it would have been quickly resolved.
> 
> That could be the case with a lot of our disagreements on here.
> 
> That's my take on it after a few days have gone by.


I'm sure you're right. And I hope I didn't put words in your mouth when I replied to Off2knit.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> So what is the difference of being blessed with quadruplets versus having 4 pregnancies? Four children are four blessings. I can not for the life of me thinking the reason not to have another wanted child because you have so much love to share, but not do it because of a 'carbon footprint' that child will produce. Think of what great people won't grace us because they wouldn't have been born all for the wacko cause of global warming.


Well, there is this thing called family planning, and people can actually decide how many children they want to have. Great people are always going to be born somewhere among us and it has nothing to do with global warming, which isn't a wacko cause. Oh, darn, I forgot. You're always right. I'll keep quiet and enjoy your further remarks in the hope of learning something new.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So what is the difference of being blessed with quadruplets versus having 4 pregnancies? Four children are four blessings. I can not for the life of me thinking the reason not to have another wanted child because you have so much love to share, but not do it because of a 'carbon footprint' that child will produce. Think of what great people won't grace us because they wouldn't have been born all for the wacko cause of global warming.


Whether you "believe" in global warming or not, it is possible for a society to have more members than its territory can support--China of course being the best example. Many many people are horrified by their solution (the ironclad one child policy), and I am among them. If we don't want our own society to face such a dilemma in the future we will, at some point, have to consider the global impact of each child we bring into the world. Hopefully it's a problem we can leave for future generations to tackle, but it can't be laughed off as a non-issue.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Whether you "believe" in global warming or not, it is possible for a society to have more members than its territory can support--China of course being the best example. Many many people are horrified by their solution (the ironclad one child policy), and I am among them. If we don't want our own society to face such a dilemma in the future we will, at some point, have to consider the global impact of each child we bring into the world. Hopefully it's a problem we can leave for future generations to tackle, but it can't be laughed off as a non-issue.


I understand the Chinese perform late-term abortions up to the last possible moment before a child is born, and then there's the charming tradition of exposing unwanted babies, leaving them to die. I guess you could call that draconian family planning...I'm sure there are other forms of family planning that take the fact of global warming, and depletion of natural resources into account. I wish we would think in the long term and not leave these problems for future generations to deal with when they will be even harder to deal with.

My mistake of trying to say something reasonable to Off2knit has driven me to have a "Bob Dylan Break" so I'm listening to "Bringing It All Back Home", and then I'm going to watch a DVD called "The Other Side of the Mirror: Bob Dylan live at the Newport Folk Festival 1963-65" Sometimes it takes seriously good poetry to get me back on track. I will multi-task and crochet at the same time.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Like That.


off2knit said:


> WOW the filth that is spewed by the left was unbelievable last night. Between the slanderous comments made to other people, talk of lice, excrement, yelling and body hair, I can't believe they kiss children with those lips. But that is to be expected from a group of angry and frustrated women from the left, can't communicate except with vicious anger. I believe this describes the left the best:
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I believe there was a post prior to that article which was insensitive and JUDGEMENTAL. You may be interested in reading it and then evaluating your position.



SeattleSoul said:


> I read the posts in one sitting. Peacegoddess wasnt critisizing the size Bonbf3's family. She posted an article giving information about the best way to reduce our carbon footprints, which is to have fewer children. Bonbf3 felt she was being critisized about the size of her family and all they do to lower their impact on the environment. She and peacegoddess have resolved their misunderstang already. There was no offensive tone in what peacegoddess said.
> 
> Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.
> 
> Peacegoddess, I hope I haven't been putting words in your mouth.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I understand the Chinese perform late-term abortions up to the last possible moment before a child is born, and then there's the charming tradition of exposing unwanted babies, leaving them to die.crochet at the same time.


Terrible, isn't it? I view it as a warning--we don't want that here, and yes it's worth giving the matter of population control a little thought now in order to avoid such a ghastly "solution" later.

Sounds like you have the makings of a pleasant day before you--crocheting and multi-tasking, crocheting and anything, really. Crafting really does make the boring tasks easier to deal with, kind of like Mary Poppins' hypothetical spoon full of sugar.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Even if she could, why would she want to do that? Sounds like her son and DIL are responsible individuals and they can decide those personal decisions and it's only their business.

Why is it that those who make a BIG deal of our carbon footprint are those individuals who totally disregard that it relates also to them and set up companies from which they benefit financially? AL gore comes to mind

.


off2knit said:


> Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.
> 
> Why would Bonnie want to go back in time and change her family? Which child should be euthanize to save the environment?
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Ben Franklin was the 15th child of Josiah and Anne. Aren't we fortunate that they didn't think about the carbon footprint?



off2knit said:


> So what is the difference of being blessed with quadruplets versus having 4 pregnancies? Four children are four blessings. I can not for the life of me thinking the reason not to have another wanted child because you have so much love to share, but not do it because of a 'carbon footprint' that child will produce. Think of what great people won't grace us because they wouldn't have been born all for the wacko cause of global warming.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Why is it that those who make a BIG deal of our carbon footprint are those individuals who totally disregard that it relates also to them and set up companies from which they benefit financially? AL gore comes to mind


You're right, Al Gore is a terrible example--but there are plenty of "carbonists" who practice what they preach and live simple and aesthetic lifestyles.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> I believe there was a post prior to that article which was insensitive and JUDGEMENTAL. You may be interested in reading it and then evaluating your position.


Why are you yelling at me?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You seem to think you put words in everyone's mouth. How is it you are so powerful?? First PG and now Bonnie.



SeattleSoul said:


> I'm sure you're right. And I hope I didn't put words in your mouth when I replied to Off2knit.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Why are you yelling at me?


Maybe she's trying to re-fight the "Civil" War in honor of Memorial Day.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm sure you're right. And I hope I didn't put words in your mouth when I replied to Off2knit.


Don't worry about it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> You seem to think you put words in everyone's mouth. How is it you are so powerful?? First PG and now Bonnie.


I was acknowledging that I said things that could be considered speaking for PG and Bonnie, and I didn't want them to think I was trying to take over what they had to say. That's the opposite of thinking I'm "so powerful". It's good manners. Once again, I have to say to someone, read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Like That.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


So do I. Haven't seen it before. Thanks, Off2knit!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> So do I. Haven't seen it before. Thanks, Off2knit!


yes me too, thank you.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I was acknowledging that I said things that could be considered speaking for PG and Bonnie, and I didn't want them to think I was trying to take over what they had to say. That's the opposite of thinking I'm "so powerful". It's good manners. Once again, I have to say to someone, read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning.


I didn't think that. I understood that those were your thoughts, but it was ncie of you to make sure.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe she's trying to re-fight the "Civil" War in honor of Memorial Day.


Darling, it is the War of Northern Aggression

Ya'll have a nice day


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I think that all this carbon dating talk sounds like selective breeding. 

I guess we have gone so far down in the value of a life we want to do to humans what we are now doing to animals. 

This is just crazy how far are we going to take this one.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Darling, it is the War of Northern Aggression
> 
> Ya'll have a nice day


At least off2knit knows what Memorial Day means. She does not demean the men who fought for this country.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Darling, it is the War of Northern Aggression
> 
> Ya'll have a nice day


Spoken like a true Southerner--but I thought you folks called it "The War Between the States"?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Population control is definitely something of concern. What are your ideas as to a solution?



susanmos2000 said:


> Terrible, isn't it? I view it as a warning--we don't want that here, and yes it's worth giving the matter of population control a little thought now in order to avoid such a ghastly "solution" later.
> 
> Sounds like you have the makings of a pleasant day before you--crocheting and multi-tasking, crocheting and anything, really. Crafting really does make the boring tasks easier to deal with, kind of like Mary Poppins' hypothetical spoon full of sugar.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Population control is definitely something of concern. What are your ideas as to a solution?


Not completely sure--probably making people aware of the hazards of overpopulation, to start with. Encouraging one-child families on a voluntary basis, developing more reliable methods of birth control, conservation efforts to make available resources go further.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

My, my, my!http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/24/Obama-s-Commerce-Secretary-Didn-t-Report-80-Million-In-Income


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My, my, my!http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/24/Obama-s-Commerce-Secretary-Didn-t-Report-80-Million-In-Income


Interesting. Says the GOP is not hostile to this close friend of Obama's--how could that be?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not completely sure--probably making people aware of the hazards of overpopulation, to start with. Encouraging one-child families on a voluntary basis, developing more reliable methods of birth control, conservation efforts to make available resources go further.


Did you say conservative???? :!: :!: LoL


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

What do these "carbonists" do to reduce their footprint......??? Refrain from eating beef, wearing shoes, driving cars, washing clothes, etc.. What does an "aesthetic" lifestyle include? I take it it is not the beauty aesthetics but the sensitivity aesthetics. Am I correct? How would one do this?



susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Al Gore is a terrible example--but there are plenty of "carbonists" who practice what they preach and live simple and aesthetic lifestyles.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I cannot read your mind. Write with clarity. It was misleading to me because I have never been of the opinion that either PG or Bonnie would look to you for words. They both appear to me to have mastered and have a good command of the English language.



SeattleSoul said:


> I was acknowledging that I said things that could be considered speaking for PG and Bonnie, and I didn't want them to think I was trying to take over what they had to say. That's the opposite of thinking I'm "so powerful". It's good manners. Once again, I have to say to someone, read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> What do these "carbonists" do to reduce their footprint......??? Refrain from eating beef, wearing shoes, driving cars, washing clothes, etc.. What does an "aesthetic" lifestyle include? I take it it is not the beauty aesthetics but the sensitivity aesthetics. Am I correct? How would one do this?


Actually you're right...I should have said ascetic, which means " practicing strict self-denial as a measure of personal and especially spiritual discipline". What that translates into probably varies among its practitioners--relying on a bicycle instead of car, minimal appliances, solar power, and no doubt following a vegetarian or vegan diet.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I read the posts in one sitting. Peacegoddess wasnt critisizing the size Bonbf3's family. She posted an article giving information about the best way to reduce our carbon footprints, which is to have fewer children. Bonbf3 felt she was being critisized about the size of her family and all they do to lower their impact on the environment. She and peacegoddess have resolved their misunderstang already. There was no offensive tone in what peacegoddess said.
> 
> Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.
> 
> Peacegoddess, I hope I haven't been putting words in your mouth.


SS - I was referring to your comment about "reading for meaning". I completely understand the meaning of the article posted by PG. I also agree that in isolation, that article was not a direct criticism of Bonnie and her family, but was a general indictment of people living in western society. But I was taught that proper reading comprehension required reading in context - that you took the full text into consideration. As I said in my post, when reading the opening statement to the post and the previous posts in response to Bonnie's post, my comprehension (along with that of several others, including Bonnie) saw an immediate link. That is why I commented on your criticism of "people not reading for meaning" - which I felt was not correct in the circumstances. I can't answer for your not comprehending the link.

My post is related to your comment about reading for meaning, not an extension of the initial subject since Bon and PG have resolved that


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe she's trying to re-fight the "Civil" War in honor of Memorial Day.


Forgive me please, but it seems like the Uncivil War, the one in which one side is made up of those who read and see whatever words they want to and the other side who read the words and enjoy seeing the ones that actually are there, even if the message is unpleasant.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Forgive me please, but it seems like the Incivil War, the one in which one side is made up of those who read and see whatever words they want to and the other side who read the words and enjoy seeing the ones that actually are there, even if the message is unpleasant.


Agree, things can get mighty uncivil around here. It's unfortunate.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Forgive me please, but it seems like the Incivil War, the one in which one side is made up of those who read and see whatever words they want to and the other side who read the words and enjoy seeing the ones that actually are there, even if the message is unpleasant.


I'm sorry SS, but our definitions of "reading comprehension" are obviously quite different - and I don't think you're the final authority on which is correct. In that case continuing to tell others to read for meaning defeats the purpose. A more workable solution might be to ask others to clearly post their views


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> I cannot read your mind. Write with clarity. It was misleading to me because I have never been of the opinion that either PG or Bonnie would look to you for words. They both appear to me to have mastered and have a good command of the English language.


No mind reading required. I quoted thing you said as part of my responses. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> No mind reading required. I quoted thing you said as part of my responses. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning. Read for meaning.


Think I got it! :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank You. Very interesting. I wonder how many people are of this persuasion? But every little bit counts.



susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're right...I should have said ascetic, which means " practicing strict self-denial as a measure of personal and especially spiritual discipline". What that translates into probably varies among its practitioners--relying on a bicycle instead of car, minimal appliances, solar power, and no doubt following a vegetarian or vegan diet.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Forgive me please, but it seems like the Uncivil War, the one in which one side is made up of those who read and see whatever words they want to and the other side who read the words and enjoy seeing the ones that actually are there, even if the message is unpleasant.


????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????
Rodomontade Gongorism


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Darling, it is the War of Northern Aggression
> 
> Ya'll have a nice day


I haven't heard that since I took American History - professor was from Virginia, I think!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Spoken like a true Southerner--but I thought you folks called it "The War Between the States"?


That, too.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Troll, oh no back to the nasty name calling, typical
> 
> Love how Obama disrespected the Marine by failure to salute. Proof of his arrogant disrespect of the military. He is the Commander in Chief, yet a Private would never have done that, they know better.
> 
> Love how Holder is in even deeper sneakers today, signing the order to get the wire taps on the Fox news reporter. I thought he said a week or so ago he had no knowledge of that.


Correct. Holder testified he knew nothing of this. How can you knot know you personally signed the search warrant targeting James Rosen, citing Rosen as an aider/abettor and/or co-conspirator? Holder can now be accused of being guilty of lying to Congress. Sounds good to me.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interesting. Says the GOP is not hostile to this close friend of Obama's--how could that be?


They say politics makes strange bedfellows. Ms. Nuland, the State Dept. spokeswoman who wrote the famous email that the original Benghazi talking points weren't acceptable to "her building" or "her leadership," is married to a conservative!

Just heard that yesterday. Also, I think they said she had the same position in the Bush admin. No longer, though. She's being promoted! Given her involvement in the Benghazi episode, that's either surprising - or not.

(How's that for PC?)


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You sir are a big old nasty bag of hot air just huffing and puffing and signifying nothing. You have threatened to leave many times and yet you obviously can't resist coming out here. So why don't you be a man of your word and leave already. I can assure you no one would miss you. You are the same old insignificant gnat you always were and your comments may be of interest to only one person and that would be you.


Speak for yourself. I would miss her. I value her opinions, your opinions, not at all. Speaking of insignificant gnats, the more you open your mouth and vomit your ugly hate filled comments, the more no one listens to you. It just proves that you have nothing to say, meaningful or otherwise.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Remember Michelle's quote during inauguration, "All this for a damn flag." Nice touch, huh?


Such class in the White House. NOT.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh my you heave out such vast amounts of hot air you probably get light headed and pumping up that weak little chest of yours. Did the military reject you when you went to signed up? You prove me wrong Mr. Bluster. Lets see what you've got?


Waiting for the answer Cheeky. How many times has knitpresentgifts threatened to leave?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You know you did and so does everyone else. What a drama queen you are. I'm going to leave this site and never return again!
> followed by a big sigh. it's all over the thread little tin man. You are a riot.


Where's the proof Cheeky? Still waiting.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> And here's Lukelucy rushing to the scene...gosh, what a surprise. Pucker up, sweetheart....there's work to be done by the faithful sidekick.


Careful, careful, that is a glowing description of yourself any day of the week.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> They say politics makes strange bedfellows.


I guess--and a mattress stuffed full of $$ makes it all the more comfy. Pritzker is loaded--a billionaire! Seems like this gal might make a very good Secretary of Commerce--she certainly knows how to look after the dollars and make them multiply.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Correct. Holder testified he knew nothing of this. How can you knot know you personally signed the search warrant targeting James Rosen, citing Rosen as an aider/abettor and/or co-conspirator? Holder can now be accused of being guilty of lying to Congress. Sounds good to me.


Today they showed video of Holder saying that. It fascinates me to watch when you know someone is actually lying right at that moment. A big lie. You know what I learned way back during Watergate, watching those hearings, then Clinton and Hilary? I learned that I could not tell when they were lying. I couldn't tell, even watching them closely, that they were lying. Same with Holder. They must be very good at it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I read the posts in one sitting. Peacegoddess wasnt critisizing the size Bonbf3's family. She posted an article giving information about the best way to reduce our carbon footprints, which is to have fewer children. Bonbf3 felt she was being critisized about the size of her family and all they do to lower their impact on the environment. She and peacegoddess have resolved their misunderstang already. There was no offensive tone in what peacegoddess said.
> 
> Bonbf3 can't go back in time and change the size of her family However, anyone starting a family could choose to have fewer children if they wanted to have significant effect on their carbon footprints.
> 
> Peacegoddess, I hope I haven't been putting words in your mouth.


What the article did not state is which children they were comparing. Were they comparing children of like environmental backgrounds, say rural setting or urban setting? What criteria did they use for the comparison? I did not find that article to be very informative.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Correct. Holder testified he knew nothing of this. How can you knot know you personally signed the search warrant targeting James Rosen, citing Rosen as an aider/abettor and/or co-conspirator? Holder can now be accused of being guilty of lying to Congress. Sounds good to me.


Isn't that off the top he has been lying about so much and now he is caught in his own web of lies.

I wonder if he will be investigating himself? Gee he could get himself for lying , obstruction of an on going investigation gee and so much more. Looks like he will need a fast and furious team of lawyers on this one. Oh thats right he already has denied that one.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Where's the proof Cheeky? Still waiting.


Cheeky, easy does it. I read back a page and still don't know who you're mad at. All this over the War We Fought When Lincoln Was President?

It's getting scary on here!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Isn't that off the top he has been lying about so much and now he is caught in his own web of lies.
> 
> I wonder if he will be investigating himself? Gee he could get himself for lying , obstruction of an on going investigation gee and so much more. Looks like he will need a fast and furious team of lawyers on this one. Oh thats right he already has denied that one.


 :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Today they showed video of Holder saying that. It fascinates me to watch when you know someone is actually lying right at that moment. A big lie. You know what I learned way back during Watergate, watching those hearings, then Clinton and Hilary? I learned that I could not tell when they were lying. I couldn't tell, even watching them closely, that they were lying. Same with Holder. They must be very good at it.


The telling point for me was too much denial and I didn't know coming out the whazoo. Holder used the same tactics when before the committee about Fast and Furious. They are very good at lying because to do it everyday.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The telling point for me was too much denial and I didn't know coming out the whazoo. Holder used the same tactics when before the committee about Fast and Furious. They are very good at lying because to do it everyday.


It sure looks like it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Cheeky, easy does it. I read back a page and still don't know who you're mad at. All this over the War We Fought When Lincoln Was President?
> 
> It's getting scary on here!


Bonnie, I hate to tell you but I made no comment about the war we fought when Lincoln was President. Please go back and find the correct source. I know you said you get confused sometimes in who is posting what and it can happen to anyone, but you are addressing the wrong person. This is my first post of the day. Thank you and have a nice holiday weekend.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie, I hate to tell you but I made no comment about the war we fought when Lincoln was President. Please go back and find the correct source. I know you said you get confused sometimes in who is posting what and it can happen to anyone, but you are addressing the wrong person. This is my first post of the day. Thank you and have a nice holiday weekend.


I checked - it was the hot air one - about military posture during Pledge of Allegiance. I just wondered what had gotten you so riled up. Nosey of me, but your post caught my attention.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Half the time he doesn't put his hand over his heart either during the playing of the National Anthem. Michelle doesn't either.


Neither do I but it doesn't mean I disrespect the anthem.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The subordinate salutes first. The marine in uniform is required to salute the President. Of course, President Obama, does not ever wear a uniform since he never served in the military, but the President must be saluted by the uniformed member.
> 
> Presidents for decades have returned the salute as a sign of respect and acknowledgment. To not do so is a lack of respect to the uniformed member and duly noted. The President is not required to return the salute, but I cannot remember the last time a President did not.
> 
> ...


None, not one of the many?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Today they showed video of Holder saying that. It fascinates me to watch when you know someone is actually lying right at that moment. A big lie. You know what I learned way back during Watergate, watching those hearings, then Clinton and Hilary? I learned that I could not tell when they were lying. I couldn't tell, even watching them closely, that they were lying. Same with Holder. They must be very good at it.


I think they are all good at it. Must be a course they teach for all future politicians. Makes me want to smack them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Neither do I. What is your point.


Are you an American citizen?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> None, not one of the many?


What is your question?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Neither do I but it doesn't mean I disrespect the anthem.


Noticed you just changed your response. It used to say ... neither do I but what is your point?

The point is, by not doing so, you ARE showing no respect towards the National Anthem when played (particularly if a USA flag is present) AND you are ignoring and not respecting the US Code for American citizens.

Your choice ....


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> SS - the meaning of a post is affected by it's context as well as it's specific wording. This particular article was introduced with a specific reference to Bon having a "bunch" of grandchildren and previous comment on bon's SIL's job and their family efforts to be environmental stewards. When all read together, the context had a very clear offensive tone to me, but it was not directed to me so I felt it was up to Bonnie to make her own response.
> 
> I think most people reading those posts in 1 sitting would have linked the subjects in their mind and believed that peacegoddess was critical of Bonnie's large family. This would have been further reinforced if people recalled PG's previous posts about children being a negative impact on the enviornment


You've done a terrific job of explaining how the majority read and understood this particular series of postings originating from Peacegoddess. Thank you for your explanation and confirming exactly how I felt put into words.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> I believe this describes the left the best:
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


F - A - B - U - L - O - U - S !!!

P.S. Thank you Ghandi for your insight.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Encouraging one-child families on a voluntary basis, developing more reliable methods of birth control, conservation efforts to make available resources go further.


Just exactly how are you going to develop more reliable methods of birth control for Catholics since they are not to rely on man-made birth control measures?

I know a practicing Christian Catholic family that has nine children; what should I recommend to them?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Noticed you just changed your response. It used to say ... neither do I but what is your point?
> 
> The point is, by not doing so, you ARE showing no respect towards the National Anthem when played (particularly if a USA flag is present) AND you are ignoring and not respecting the US Code for American citizens.
> 
> Your choice ....


It is my choice...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Neither do I but it doesn't mean I disrespect the anthem.


Hi GW - Hope you are having a nice holiday weekend. It seems that some on the right are really caught up in protocol. I think it is much ado about nothing, personally. Unless someone goes out of their way to be disrespectful I doubt they mean any insult to anyone.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> It is my choice...


As I said to you prior. However, you are acting in a disrespectful manner to and as an US citizen and you not only don't know that, but also you stated the complete opposite.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Speak for yourself. I would miss her. I value her opinions, ... .


Thanks for your support Solo!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> It is my choice...


GW - It looks like the tin man put a little tin sheriff's badge on and made himself the law on KP. We better be careful or we might get put in his pretend jail cell. :-(


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Just exactly how are you going to develop more reliable methods of birth control for Catholics since they are not to rely on man-made birth control measures?
> 
> I know a practicing Christian Catholic family that has nine children; what should I recommend to them?


You shouldn't recommend anything to them unless you're their priest.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> GW - It looks like the tin man put a little tin sheriff's badge on and made himself the law on KP. We better be careful or we might get put in his pretend jail cell. :-(


Seems to me there are a couple of baby US citizens on this thread that are clueless and have no gratitude, understanding nor appreciation for their own country and citizenship in same and those that fought for their freedoms.

You must know the old saying:

_"If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."_


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You shouldn't recommend anything to them unless you're their priest.


Andrea - He thinks he is the sheriff and a priest today. That's two more personalities coming out today. He is quite a drama queen and loves the limelight. Green isn't his color makes him look a little peaked. You should change your lighting tin man.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seems to me there are a couple of baby, helpless US citizens on this thread that are clueless and have no gratitude, understanding nor appreciation for their own country and citizenship in same and those that fought for their freedoms.
> 
> You must know the old saying:
> 
> _"If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."_


Oh, he's a huffing and a puffing and he is going to pass out. Pace yourself tin man. You are getting to excited.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You shouldn't recommend anything to them unless you're their priest.


I wouldn't think of it, but I'm sure Susan has plenty of suggestions that can be passed along to them.

Re-phrase: Susan, what recommendations could be considered by the appropriate leaders of the Catholic Church, who in turn, would relay through the Catholic Priests to the parents?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seems to me there are a couple of baby, helpless US citizens on this thread that are clueless and have no gratitude, understanding nor appreciation for their own country and citizenship in same and those that fought for their freedoms.
> 
> You must know the old saying:
> 
> _"If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."_


I don't know who you're talking about, but my father was an immigrant to this country who loved this country and the opportunities he found here. He taught himself to read and write in English, read the paper everyday from front to back, and served in World War I. I still have the flag that was draped over his coffin and remember well the gun salute at the cemetery. We love and respect this country. If a person doesn't know every factoid about flag etiquette that doesn't mean s/he doesn't love and respect the US.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea - He thinks he is the sheriff and a priest today. That's two more personalities coming out today. He is quite a drama queen and loves the limelight. Green isn't his color makes him look a little peaked. You should change your lighting tin man.


That's Drama KING - remember?

BTW: Where, is my PROOF? You've had plenty of time to post it - alas, it doesn't exist but I'm still WAITING.

Who's lying now ..... I'm mean, still.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh, he's a huffing and a puffing and he is going to pass out. Pace yourself tin man. You are getting to excited.


I love my name "Tin Man" :thumbup:

"Liar" is looking better each minute for you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I wouldn't think of it, but I'm sure Susan has plenty of suggestions that can be passed along to them.
> 
> Re-phrase: Susan, what recommendations could be considered by the appropriate leaders of the Catholic Church, who in turn, would relay through the Catholic Priests to the parents?


This is such nonsense. The Catholic parents have a priest and a conscience. They will decide their own family planning method.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I don't know who you're talking about, but my father was an immigrant to this country who loved this country and the opportunities he found here. He taught himself to read and write in English, read the paper everyday from front to back, and served in World War I. I still have the flag that was draped over his coffin and remember well the gun salute at the cemetery. We love and respect this country. If a person doesn't know every factoid about flag etiquette that doesn't mean s/he doesn't love and respect the US.


You should have stopped at .... "I don't know who you're talking about ...."


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This is such nonsense. The Catholic parents have a priest and a conscience. They will decide their own family planning method.


Better inform susan then.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should have stopped at .... "I don't know who you're talking about ...."


Why?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Better inform susan then.


Why?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

knitpresents how can she inform anyone? She is so entrenched with the dem party she is part of the Sgt Schultz brigade: she knows nothing.............


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Why?


Andrea - This is so typical of the little man. I think someone may have a Napoleon complex too. He is so insecure.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You're a poor example for your little byline, sir. It might be a good idea to practice the first six words of your quote on this forum.
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Why?


because you don't know who I was talking about


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Why?


Love your new avatar, Andrea. Such a cute baby!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> because you don't know who I was talking about


Well, so tell us instead of posting a rude answer. Find some manners.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> knitpresents how can she inform anyone? She is so entrenched with the dem party she is part of the Sgt Schultz brigade: she knows nothing.............


Oooh, I forgot - thanks for your reminder! Actually, she has no idea to whom or what I was discussing with Susan, or so she claimed, so I'm not sure why I even responded to her.

I'll do better from now on.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> because you don't know who I was talking about


Obviously you don't know either. Slow down little man. I see off2knit came out here to stand by her man. How sweet. Have to have the womenfolk come to your rescue. You are too funny.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love your new avatar, Andrea. Such a cute baby!


Thank you. That's Hiro, adopted from a nearby shelter. He was already doing this we we got him. We call him our "prairie dog."
Have to leave to take food to our friends who had a death in the family. Later, Cheeky.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Obviously you don't know either. Slow down little man. I see off2knit came out here to stand by her man. How sweet. Have to have the womenfolk come to your rescue. You are too funny.


I'm leaving Cheeky and I suggest you leave, too. The remaining ones deserve each other.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You're a poor example for your little byline, sir. It might be a good idea to practice the first six words of your quote on this forum.
> Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.


You should not be judging me, and you do not know me.

Thanks for re-stating my by-line; please note my posting ID as well. I give generously, do good, share my gifts and blessings. Do You?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Well, so tell us instead of posting a rude answer. Find some manners.


I'm not here to read the posts aloud to you. May I suggest you go back and re-read the discussion that you interrupted.

Please do not judge me.

There, I believe that was very polite.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Obviously you don't know either. Slow down little man. I see off2knit came out here to stand by her man. How sweet. Have to have the womenfolk come to your rescue. You are too funny.


Any proof yet of _all_ the posts in which I said I was leaving?

Alcameron just posted she was leaving ... does that count as proof she will? :?:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I checked - it was the hot air one - about military posture during Pledge of Allegiance. I just wondered what had gotten you so riled up. Nosey of me, but your post caught my attention.


You are confused Bonnie but that is OK. I talked about tin man as he was blowing a lot of hot air around last night playing MP on KP. Not riled up just very amused by how the man conducts himself. I mentioned hot air four or five times on different posts so not sure which one caught your attention, but I'm flattered just the same. Thank you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should not be judging me and you do not know me.
> 
> Thanks for re-stating my by-line. I give generously, do good, share my gifts and blessings. Do You?


Your avatar is extermely offensive. It represents the sacred heart of Jesus and your callous use of it is disgusting. I strongly suggest
you select something else. For someone who claims to be so knowledgeable you sure blew it on this one. Catholics are Christians too.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm leaving Cheeky and I suggest you leave, too. The remaining ones deserve each other.


He doesn't have a clue how offensive he is. See you later, Andrea.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Your avatar is extermely offensive. It represents the sacred heart of Jesus and your callous use of it is disgusting. I strongly suggest you select something else.


Let me get this straight. You call me the Tin-Man, you repeat it often, you intentionally insult me by calling me the Tin-Man, you and your minions take delight in a constant and endless bullying of me and now YOU are extremely (fixed your dumbo typo) offended by an image of a heart on a cartoon Tin-Man?

Is that all _Jesus_ is to you, an image from a fairytale?

May I remind you, is was you or one of your followers who chose that image to represent me. Don't you dare talk to me about disgust.

I am secure in my relationship with my Saviour, and your vicious words to me will never change anything about that relationship.

I could come up with a few choice words for you, but I'm enough of a *LADY* (got that?) to not hurl those words towards you.

Bless your vile heart.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> At least off2knit knows what Memorial Day means. She does not demean the men who fought for this country.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Offensive question. Shame.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you an American citizen?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Let me get this straight. You call me the Tin-Man, you repeat it often, you intentionally insult me by calling me the Tin-Man, you and your minions take delight in a constant and endless bullying of me and now YOU are extremely (fixed your dumbo typo) offended by an image of a heart on a cartoon Tin-Man?
> 
> Is that all _Jesus_ is to you, an image from a fairytale?
> 
> ...


My heart is pure. What you did is vile and extremely offensive so act like a man and admit you made a huge mistake. The only tin man I am familiar with is the one from the Wizard of Oz and in case you are not familiar with that famous story the tin man was given a clock for his heart. Nothing disgusting like what you posted as your avatar. Jesus wasn't a tin man he was real and his heart was sacred, not a fairy tale as you suggested. I'm sure Jesus will forgive you. He is the ultimate in compassion and kindness and even loves you. I forgive you too as that is the Christian thing to do and you obviously didn't know any better.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should not be judging me, and you do not know me.
> 
> Thanks for re-stating my by-line; please note my posting ID as well. I give generously, do good, share my gifts and blessings. Do You?


It would be a good thing if you deleted that by line as obviously you have shown you don't practice what it says and Christians don't run around bragging and boasting about their own goodness. You are supposed to do good in secret so only God knows about it. Here you are with a megaphone shouting look how good I am. Shame on you.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seems to me there are a couple of baby US citizens on this thread that are clueless and have no gratitude, understanding nor appreciation for their own country and citizenship in same and those that fought for their freedoms.
> You must know the old saying:
> _"If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."_


Oh, how clearly I remember when those of us who protested against the illegal, so-called War in Viet Nam were called traitors and worse when we were actually patriotic enough to object to watching the men of our generation being fed into the hopper to be cannon fodder so some some old white men could indulge their positions of power. How easy it is for those in power to forget that short, little commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill". And yet, on Memorial Day, I still remember what so many did to protect our country, in other wars.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts,

They LIKE it when you get upset. You are giving them satisfaction. I have a complete sense of freedom not communicating with these low-lifes. 

Again, we support you. But, don't play into them.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Obviously you don't know either. Slow down little man. I see off2knit came out here to stand by her man. How sweet. Have to have the womenfolk come to your rescue. You are too funny.


What man are you talking about? I found your 'the womenfolk' comment sexist and condescending. Maybe you just don't know the differences between the sexes, but then again you are easily confused.

But maybe the dems all want to be referred 'the womenfolk'. I will be happy to grant your wish. For now, I think it would be appropriate to call you 'womenfolk' or the 'little woman'. Just try'n to oblige darlin'.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I give generously, do good, share my gifts and blessings. Do You?


Bragging about doing good works, are you? You're a pretty poor excuse for a Christian if you think that's the right thing to do.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'd like to know what christian churches you fine ladies are members of?

I guess if you shout loud enough how Christian you are, all the name calling, nastiness can be forgiven. 

How wonderful. Shame on you.

The reason I would like to know, is because if this is the way your Ministers, Priests are teaching and acting, I for one would like to know where to stay away from!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> How easy it is for those in power to forget that short, little commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill". And yet, on Memorial Day, I still remember what so many did to protect our country, in other wars.


Once again, someone clueless about the commandment to not kill and those in the military who do kill, and the rules and engagement of war along with the context of each to the words in the _Bible._


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Offensive question.


Sure, if your not proud to be an American and are one.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> They LIKE it when you get upset. You are giving them satisfaction. I have a complete sense of freedom not communicating with these low-lifes.
> 
> Again, we support you. But, don't play into them.


I'm not upset in the least. I've only defended myself.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

OK. Boy, they are really sick people. Glad you are not upset.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bragging about doing good works, are you? You're a pretty poor excuse for a Christian if you think that's the right thing to do.


Ans: "No," although you don't deserve an answer. I responded to an insult and judgement directed to me.

If I 'bragged' I would have mentioned amounts, to whom, when, what, where, why etc. for the sole purpose of bragging.

BTW: I remember quite well you slamming and insulting me as well. So, please don't enlighten me further with your bragging.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> But maybe the dems all want to be referred 'the womenfolk'. I will be happy to grant your wish. For now, I think it would be appropriate to call you 'womenfolk' or the 'little woman'.


Change that to "Little Women" and I approve. Despite the book's seemingly parochial view of women its author, Louisa May Alcott, fought many a battle for their rights.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not upset in the least.


Are you sure? I think I hear a pair of tin knees beginning to knock together.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you sure? I think I hear a pair of tin knees beginning to knock together.


Shall I re-post a picture for you susan? Cheeky will be very upset and won't like you very much.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> OK. Boy, they are really sick people. Glad you are not upset.


After thinking upon it, the tin man was an empty shell with a tough exterior. Once he received his gift, he became human, filled with love with the biggest heart of all. Sounds pretty special to me, so the monicker seemed to suit me well, and I posted as much awhile ago. That's when Cheeky went off her rocker.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Noticed you just changed your response. It used to say ... neither do I but what is your point?
> 
> The point is, by not doing so, you ARE showing no respect towards the National Anthem when played (particularly if a USA flag is present) AND you are ignoring and not respecting the US Code for American citizens.
> 
> Your choice ....


Yes, I did change my post because I felt it was somewhat rude. And I do not want to be rude to CB. I respect her.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seems to me there are a couple of baby US citizens on this thread that are clueless and have no gratitude, understanding nor appreciation for their own country and citizenship in same and those that fought for their freedoms.
> 
> You must know the old saying:
> 
> _"If you cannot stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them."_


Okay.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> After thinking upon it, the tin man was an empty shell with a tough exterior. Once he received his gift, he became human, filled with love with the biggest heart of all.


Have you actually read the book? If so you've missed the point entirely. The Tin Man only THOUGHT he needed a real, physical heart--the one he received from the Wizard was symbolic, just a bit of silk stuffed with sawdust. His ability to show love and compassion grew throughout that long journey every time he risked his own personal safety to protect Dorothy and the others. Same for the Scarecrow and the Cowardly Lion, and yes, even Dorothy, who had the silver slippers that would take her home on her feet all along.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I'm leaving Cheeky and I suggest you leave, too. The remaining ones deserve each other.


I'm not Cheeky but I'm not leaving. As of this moment, I am going to totally ignore Knitpresents or whatever - I will not acknowledge her or comment on her posts. We have a right to be here as does she but that does not mean I have to respond to her. So do please stay Cheeky & Alcameron.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Offensive question. Shame.


Wasn't worthy of an answer. No offense taken - I considered the source.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, how clearly I remember when those of us who protested against the illegal, so-called War in Viet Nam were called traitors and worse when we were actually patriotic enough to object to watching the men of our generation being fed into the hopper to be cannon fodder so some some old white men could indulge their positions of power. How easy it is for those in power to forget that short, little commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill". And yet, on Memorial Day, I still remember what so many did to protect our country, in other wars.


I so remember that time (even though I was 5  ). That was not a war - that was a political disaster. And good men paid dearly for that.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Adding to the non-reply list: Lukelooney. And Joeysomeonesmomma. Done!!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Adding to the non-reply list: Lukelooney. And Joeysomeonesmomma. Done!!!


You womenfolk on the left need to be reminded that you by your actions we are winning. First your replies of "ignore", then the name calling, then you are attempting to start fights. In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions.

First they ignore you. 
Then they ridicule you. 
Then they fight you. 
Then you win. 
- Mahatma Ghandi

Thank you for being you, it makes Ghandi's statement all the sweeter and rewarding


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Yes, I did change my post because I felt it was somewhat rude. And I do not want to be rude to CB. I respect her.


Aww thanks. I didn't see anything rude to me by you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


Yarnie I got to see the ruby slippers when we went to the Smithsonian. I have a picture of them somewhere.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You womenfolk on the left need to be reminded that you by your actions we are winning. First your replies of "ignore", then the name calling, then you are attempting to start fights. In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions.
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

So good that they could easily pass a lie detector test. That is one quality they do have and o is the biggest but his body language gives him away. Watch how his eyes deviate.



bonbf3 said:


> Today they showed video of Holder saying that. It fascinates me to watch when you know someone is actually lying right at that moment. A big lie. You know what I learned way back during Watergate, watching those hearings, then Clinton and Hilary? I learned that I could not tell when they were lying. I couldn't tell, even watching them closely, that they were lying. Same with Holder. They must be very good at it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Once again, someone clueless about the commandment to not kill and those in the military who do kill, and the rules and engagement of war along with the context of each to the words in the _Bible._


War is a sin committed by all who profess it. End all wars now. Let peace prevail. If you aren't a pacifist, you need some educating to learn to reject the false premises that are used by those who want to wage war for the sake of profit. Every soldier who has fallen on every ground of battle and all who will fall are victims of murder by those who order them into battle.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And as you point out had very poor research methodology.



soloweygirl said:


> What the article did not state is which children they were comparing. Were they comparing children of like environmental backgrounds, say rural setting or urban setting? What criteria did they use for the comparison? I did not find that article to be very informative.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


In the movie, yes--I guess you haven't read the book either.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> War is a sin committed by all who profess it. End all wars now. Let peace prevail. If you aren't a pacifist, you need some educating to learn to reject the false premises that are used by those who want to wage war for the sake of profit. Every soldiewe who has fallen on every groud nof war and all who will fall are victims of murder by those who order them into battle.


Bible say wars and rumors of war will be with us until Christ returns to take his believers home.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You womenfolk on the left need to be reminded that you by your actions we are winning. First your replies of "ignore", then the name calling, then you are attempting to start fights. In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions.
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh woe is me I didn't read the book, oh how could I have not read the book.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh woe is me I didn't read the book, oh how could I have not read the book.


 :-o


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nor are you the President. And his not honoring the flag with his palm on his heart just gives more credence to the idea that he truly does not love our Country. They have no idea of protocol. Remember when he tried to hug the President of South Korea. How stupid that was. He believes that Chicago manners are relevant every where. We even teach our students when they go abroad what are the local customs and etiquette. Wonder from what community organization he picked up his protocol chief. Or does he even have one??



GWPlver said:


> Neither do I but it doesn't mean I disrespect the anthem.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I didn't read the book either. Maybe I just read the Cliff notes. Or maybe not even that. Who was the author? That time the book could not be as good as the movie. :lol:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't read the book either. Maybe I just read the Cliff notes. Or maybe not even that. Who was the author? That time the book could not be as good as the movie. :lol:


Just check the internet written by Fred Hamlins Very interesting my dear. :lol: :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ans: "No," although you don't deserve an answer. I responded to an insult and judgement directed to me.
> If I 'bragged' I would have mentioned amounts, to whom, when, what, where, why etc. for the sole purpose of bragging.
> BTW: I remember quite well you slamming and insulting me as well. So, please don't enlighten me further with your bragging.


I don't brag about anything my particular religion believes I should do. You don't need to say anything about what you did that was charitable for it to be considered bragging. Just to mention that you are charitable and do good works is bragging enough. You make yourself a target for all kinds of criticism because you don't live up to the standards you claim to have.

You think I've "slammed" and "insulted" you when I have only remarked on the posts you make that don't seem to conform to what kind of person you claim to be. Brag all you like. You don't have to answer to me. All too soon you will stand before the only judge humankind has.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Just check the internet written by Fred Hamlins Very interesting my dear. :lol: :lol:


You're kidding--right? L. Frank Baum wrote the Oz books--there were fourteen in the series--and Fred Hamlins turned the first one into a musical.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're kidding--right? L. Frank Baum wrote the Oz books--there were fourteen in the series--and Fred Hamlins turned the first one into a musical.


Oh my I actual learned something and from you of all people. :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Once again, someone clueless about the commandment to not kill and those in the military who do kill, and the rules and engagement of war along with the context of each to the words in the _Bible._


While the Bible was inspired by God, imperfect people wrote down what God inspired them to write. A few sinple things were written correctly. Thou shalt not kill. Period. (and I don't mean killing food so there's dinner on your plate) It's only four words. Memorize them and live by them for the sake of your soul.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

For goodness sake he's the President. He should be exhibiting the highest level of respect for our Country. And there is not a good reason he is so uninformed and doesn't know. I am annoyed when people leave their flags out in the rain or fly an unlit flag. We were taught flag etiquette in school.

I'm glad your father found opportunity in the USA and appreciate his service to the Country. He is being honored this weekend.



alcameron said:


> I don't know who you're talking about, but my father was an immigrant to this country who loved this country and the opportunities he found here. He taught himself to read and write in English, read the paper everyday from front to back, and served in World War I. I still have the flag that was draped over his coffin and remember well the gun salute at the cemetery. We love and respect this country. If a person doesn't know every factoid about flag etiquette that doesn't mean s/he doesn't love and respect the US.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bible say wars and rumors of war will be with us until Christ returns to take his believers home.


The only peace we can have is having Jesus as our Savior. That is the only peace on earth. Satan is out to kill steal and destory so peace is never going to happen but thru Him. He is my peace in times of trouble. :thumbup: Amen .


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I'm not Cheeky but I'm not leaving. As of this moment, I am going to totally ignore Knitpresents or whatever - I will not acknowledge her or comment on her posts. We have a right to be here as does she but that does not mean I have to respond to her. So do please stay Cheeky & Alcameron.


I just let knitpresentgifts rile me up, but I'm going to do as you suggest from now on. Cheeky and Alcameron, it would be awful to lose you here. Please stay. Let's all do our best to send knitpresentgifts to Coventry.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> While the Bible was inspired by God, imperfect people wrote down what God inspired them to write. A few sinple things were written correctly. Thou shalt not kill. Period. (and I don't mean killing food so there's dinner on your plate) It's only four words. Memorize them and live by them for the sake of your soul.


Nope don't believe that men got it wrong. Why would they get it wrong when God said that anyone who adds or subtracts from these words will be punish.

Ever read the old testments?? meantion war many times. The Torah also mentions it. 
If you believe that men wrote it and it is not divine, why read it or even believe it? I would say after 2,000 years some one got it right.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Adding to the non-reply list: Lukelooney. And Joeysomeonesmomma. Done!!!


I'm with you on ignoring those two, too. Thanks for the great suggestion. Let's ignore theyarnlady, too. She just replied to a post of mine in a way that could have easily got me jumping up and down and saying awful things.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Bible say wars and rumors of war will be with us until Christ returns to take his believers home.


That's an excellent reason to resist war all the more. The more we practice peace, the fewer wars and rumors of war will be with us. Ghandi wasn't a Christian but he was right on about the power of pacifism. We would do well to learn from him.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

To RUknitting
I was not commenting about the president or to anything you posted. This quote was from an earlier discussion. I believe we should all honor our country and the flag. I am sitting here knitting and minding my own business.
Yes, my father served this country well and was proud to be an American citizen. I want everyone to know that people who do not call themselves conservatives are also patriots who serve their country. Somehow some seem to think that conservatives are the only patriots. Not true.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> To RUknitting
> I was not commenting about the president or to anything you posted. This quote was from an earlier discussion. I believe we should all honor our country and the flag. I am sitting here knitting and minding my own business.
> Yes, my father served this country well and was proud to be an American citizen. I want everyone to know that people who do not call themselves conservatives are also patriots who serve their country. Somehow some seem to think that conservatives are the only patriots. Not true.


What you said is very true Al. I know many who are progressive who do honor their country and their flag.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The book had silver slippers. The movie changed it to ruby slippers because they photographed better.



theyarnlady said:


> Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I was commenting on your sentence relating to flag factoid where you seemed to be in favor of ignorance. My point was that for a president ignorance is not acceptable.

And I don't believe any party has a monopoly on patriotism. Peoples actions and words speak to their love of country and patriotism not what party they support.

As you were "minding your own business" You were participating in these posts. So what is the significance of that _______ statement?



alcameron said:


> To RUknitting
> I was not commenting about the president or to anything you posted. This quote was from an earlier discussion. I believe we should all honor our country and the flag. I am sitting here knitting and minding my own business.
> Yes, my father served this country well and was proud to be an American citizen. I want everyone to know that people who do not call themselves conservatives are also patriots who serve their country. Somehow some seem to think that conservatives are the only patriots. Not true.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's okay. We know you aren't into reading.



theyarnlady said:


> Oh woe is me I didn't read the book, oh how could I have not read the book.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Frank Baum.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't read the book either. Maybe I just read the Cliff notes. Or maybe not even that. Who was the author? That time the book could not be as good as the movie. :lol:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I was commenting on your sentence relating to flag factoid where you seemed to be in favor of ignorance. My point was that for a president ignorance is not acceptable.
> 
> And I don't believe any party has a monopoly on patriotism. Peoples actions and words speak to their love of country and patriotism not what party they support.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Have you actually read the book? If so you've missed the point entirely. The Tin Man only THOUGHT he needed a real, physical heart--the one he received from the Wizard was symbolic, just a bit of silk stuffed with sawdust. His ability to show love and compassion grew throughout that long journey every time he risked his own personal safety to protect Dorothy and the others. Same for the Scarecrow and the Cowardly Lion, and yes, even Dorothy, who had the silver slippers that would take her home on her feet all along.


I'm glad you asked. Replace the word 'book' in your first sentence with the world _"Bible"_. My answer would then be, "yes."

Re-read your own post. You would then understand me and the points I've been trying to make, my ID, my by-line and realize what I've been trying to explain to you and others all along.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Aww thanks. I didn't see anything rude to me by you.


GW is speaking to me Country Bumpkin, not you. I am CB too in case you hadn't noticed. :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


Hi yarn lady - susan isn't even able to get the facts straight in a fairytale that became a classic movie; her anger and hated blinds her.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> They LIKE it when you get upset. You are giving them satisfaction. I have a complete sense of freedom not communicating with these low-lifes.
> 
> Again, we support you. But, don't play into them.


You are starting to sound like a Playtex Living Bra!!!!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> GW is speaking to me Country Bumpkin, not you. I am CB too in case you hadn't noticed. :-D


Excuse me. I hadn't thought about that. But GW and I are friends so I thought she was talking to me. My mistake.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions.
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since you haven't caught on, I'll be blunt. You are pedantic and arrogant. We've heard enough of what you have to say. Of course you are free to yap on and on and on. We are free to ignore you. Perhaps you need a new hobby now that you've retired.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm glad you asked. Replace the word 'book' in your first sentence with the world _"Bible"_. My answer would then be, "yes."
> 
> Re-read your own post. You would then understand me and the points I've been trying to make, my ID, my by-line and realize what I've been trying to explain to you and others all along.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Obviously you can't either. In the book the slippers were silver.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You womenfolk on the left need to be reminded that you by your actions we are winning. First your replies of "ignore", then the name calling, then you are attempting to start fights. In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions.
> 
> First they ignore you.
> Then they ridicule you.
> ...


Ghandi would never associate with you people on the right. He was a pacifist and lived and died standing up against people like you with no aggression and you folks on the right love your guns and wars. Better go back to school and take a refresher course off. You haven't a clue once again what you are talking about.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi yarn lady - susan isn't even able to get the facts straight in a fairytale no less; her anger and hated blinds her.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: What are you trying to say?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> War is a sin committed by all who profess it. End all wars now. Let peace prevail. If you aren't a pacifist, you need some educating to learn to reject the false premises that are used by those who want to wage war for the sake of profit. Every soldier who has fallen on every ground of battle and all who will fall are victims of murder by those who order them into battle.


SS - you are so wrong and so far gone I'm not sure you'll ever find your way home.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: What are you trying to say?


damemary this person thinks he knows everything, just ask him and he will tell you and off thinks Ghandi would be on their side. I don't think she knows what pacifist means but I am not surprised as their is a lot she does not know.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> In the movie, yes--I guess you haven't read the book either.


.... and now we all know you are blind to the main stream, do not recognize a classic icon when you see it, never have seen the Ruby slippers when auctioned, in a museum, in a magazine, copied for costumes, used in jokes, etc.

You must be under a rock, I'm mean house ....


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go do the laundry and accomplish something useful.



knitpresentgifts said:


> .... and now we all know you are not blind to the main stream, do not recognize a classic icon when you see it, never have seen the Ruby slippers when auctioned off, in a museum, copied for costumes, used in jokes, etc.
> 
> You must be under a rock, I'm mean house ....


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Isn't she a he? Gender confusion too?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary this person thinks he knows everything, just ask him and he will tell you and off thinks Ghandi would be on their side. I don't think she knows what pacifist means but I am not surprised as their is a lot she does not know.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Nor are you the President. And his not honoring the flag with his palm on his heart just gives more credence to the idea that he truly does not love our Country. They have no idea of protocol. Remember when he tried to hug the President of South Korea. How stupid that was. He believes that Chicago manners are relevant every where. We even teach our students when they go abroad what are the local customs and etiquette. Wonder from what community organization he picked up his protocol chief. Or does he even have one??


not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> knitpresentgifts,
> 
> They LIKE it when you get upset. You are giving them satisfaction. I have a complete sense of freedom not communicating with these low-lifes.
> 
> Again, we support you. But, don't play into them.


LukeLucy has learned from experience. It's a good idea to take her advice! You can read without responding, but it takes a lot of will power.

Of course, you are good at responding!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> .... and now we all know you are not blind to the main stream, do not recognize a classic icon when you see it, never have seen the Ruby slippers when auctioned off, in a museum, copied for costumes, used in jokes, etc.
> 
> You must be under a rock, I'm mean house ....


You mean the house that fell on your sister?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
In a very short time, we will have won, because of your actions. 

First they ignore you. 
Then they ridicule you. 
Then they fight you. 
Then you win. 
- Mahatma Ghandi

Thank you for being you, it makes Ghandi's statement all the sweeter and rewarding




Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16


You and off her rocker don't know anything about Ghandi if you think he would have anything to do with the likes of you. Do you know what a pacifist is or have you not had any English or History? He lived and died practicing passive resistance and did in the British Empire. He had nothing to do with gun toting war mongers like you folks. You are a sad little man aren't you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And doesn't it bother you that he is the President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017? I like the man. He seems caring and totally himself.



knitpresentgifts said:


> not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least we know Patty knows the story. Good one, Patty.



BrattyPatty said:


> You mean the house that fell on your sister?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> You think I've "slammed" and "insulted" you when I have only remarked on the posts you make that don't seem to conform to what kind of person you claim to be.


Let's start with this, shall we. Your quote, erroneously addressed to me but no question specifically addressed to me,

"Cherf, getting a thumbs up from you is like getting a load of well-fermented garbage from a landfill dumped on my head."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good night friends. Indy 500 tomorrow. Get some time to yourselves over the weekend and always.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Obviously you can't either. In the book the slippers were silver.


They think they know everything Patty, especially the little guy but obviously they just blow a lot of hot air. Good to see you this evening.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> You don't need to say anything about what you did that was charitable for it to be considered bragging. Just to mention that you are charitable and do good works is bragging enough. You make yourself a target for all kinds of criticism because you don't live up to the standards you claim to have.
> \


I understand you are now learning about Catholic teachings; so I'll forgive you for your lack of Biblical knowledge and understanding and judging of me.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Are you sure? I think I hear a pair of tin knees beginning to knock together.


He may just be knock kneed to Susan but I would bet on fear of the good ladies on the left.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I won't be on long.
Have to get up early tomorrow to head up to Camp Ripley to pay respect to 2 very dear departed friends.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please clarify. Are you saying that Catholics don't know the Bible? Or am I misunderstanding you?



knitpresentgifts said:


> I understand you are now learning about Catholic teachings; so I'll forgive you for your lack of Biblical knowledge and understanding and judging of me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> And doesn't it bother you that he is the President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017? I like the man. He seems caring and totally himself.


And he does put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem and does wear a flag pin.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


And the list goes on.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> And doesn't it bother you that he is the President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017? I like the man. He seems caring and totally himself.


It bothers me a lot. Too much deception going on in this administration.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


My goodness, you do like to lie!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ans: "No," although you don't deserve an answer. I responded to an insult and judgement directed to me.
> 
> If I 'bragged' I would have mentioned amounts, to whom, when, what, where, why etc. for the sole purpose of bragging.
> 
> BTW: I remember quite well you slamming and insulting me as well. So, please don't enlighten me further with your bragging.


There you go again you just can't stop talking about how good you are. You better look that up in the bible and read the whole thing cause you have it all wrong. For shame.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> While the Bible was inspired by God, imperfect people wrote down what God inspired them to write. A few sinple things were written correctly. Thou shalt not kill. Period. (and I don't mean killing food so there's dinner on your plate) It's only four words. Memorize them and live by them for the sake of your soul.


wrong, wrong and more wrong:

Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, You shall not kill, and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.

War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy themas the LORD your God has commanded you.

Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out. Obviously God is not against all war.

Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only Gods will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

Jesus second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war with justice (v. 11). Its going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a fiery lake of burning sulfur (v. 20).

It is an error to say that God never supports a war. 
Jesus is not a pacifist.

In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

War is a terrible thing. At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, There isa time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17).

The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html#ixzz2UMtc65LA


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He may just be knock kneed to Susan but I would bet on fear of the good ladies on the left.


You may be right, Cheeky--looks like our Tin Man is lacking something other than a heart. Perhaps the Lion can lend him some courage.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It bothers me a lot. Too much deception going on in this administration.


With all due respect, Bonnie, the last admimistration was quite deceptive themselves.
Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater, etc.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You may be right, Cheeky--looks like our Tin Man is lacking something other than a heart. Perhaps the Lion can lend him some courage.


And the Scarecrow can teach him how to think.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Dorothy's slippers were not silver they were Ruby Red Slippers.


In the book they were silver. They were ruby in the movie only.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Keep reading that bible, KPG, you may just learn something on selflessness, humility, and just plain kindness.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Nope don't believe that men got it wrong. Why would they get it wrong when God said that anyone who adds or subtracts from these words will be punish.
> 
> Ever read the old testments?? meantion war many times. The Torah also mentions it.
> If you believe that men wrote it and it is not divine, why read it or even believe it? I would say after 2,000 years some one got it right.


 :thumbup:

PS Would you like to join me on my trip to Coventry (its in England, I believe) on SS's dime? I'll cover your costs. :-o


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


Yes, there is no limit to the ways he disrespects and embarrasses our beloved country.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Good song. Here is for remembering our soldiers of all times past and present.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> wrong, wrong and more wrong:
> 
> Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, You shall not kill, and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.
> 
> ...


YAWN


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> After thinking upon it, the tin man was an empty shell with a tough exterior. Once he received his gift, he became human, filled with love with the biggest heart of all. Sounds pretty special to me, so the monicker seemed to suit me well, and I posted as much awhile ago. That's when Cheeky went off her rocker.


Yes tin man became very special. You are no tin man after all. What a disappointment for you. Just be who you are little man. Jesus loves you, remember?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> For goodness sake he's the President. He should be exhibiting the highest level of respect for our Country. And there is not a good reason he is so uninformed and doesn't know. I am annoyed when people leave their flags out in the rain or fly an unlit flag. We were taught flag etiquette in school.
> 
> I get annoyed too. I didn't receive that training anywhere, but sought out the etiquette myself.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes tin man became very special. You are no tin man after all. What a disappointment for you. Just be who you are little man. Jesus loves you, remember?


Agree, the KP version is just a hollow steel drum.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

momeee said:


> Yes, there is no limit to the ways he disrespects and embarrasses our beloved country.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Yes, there is no limit to the ways he disrespects and embarrasses our beloved country.


Tsk tsk


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Keep reading that bible, KPG, you may just learn something on selflessness, humility, and just plain kindness.


I doubt it--unless the Bible is presented in glorious living Technicolor. Even then it seems like a long shot.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Good one, Patty!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm signing off. Have a nice remainder of your weekend!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're kidding--right? L. Frank Baum wrote the Oz books--there were fourteen in the series--and Fred Hamlins turned the first one into a musical.


Susan have you noticed reading anything is not something the right can be bothered with. They don't need it as the GOP has already told them all they need to know.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm signing off. Have a nice remainder of your weekend!


Thanks for the laughs--you've made my day! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan have you noticed reading anything is not something the right can be bothered with. They don't need it as the GOP has already told them all they need to know.


Actually I didn't know that--until this evening. Frankly I'm stunned. It's scary to think of these kind of folks marching out every four years to cast their votes.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> We've heard enough of what you have to say. Of course you are free to yap on and on and on. We are free to ignore you. Perhaps you need a new hobby now that you've retired.


1) Why don't you simply ignore me then and stop responding? No self-control?

2) I've not said I'm retired. Why are you so interested in someone you've heard enough of. No self-control?

3) Try blueberries - I've heard they are great for memory loss


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary this person thinks he knows everything, just ask him and he will tell you and off thinks Ghandi would be on their side. I don't think she knows what pacifist means but I am hnot surprised as their is a lot she does not know.


Ghandi wrote "An Autobiography: My Experiments with Truth" published in 1929, but dealing with his life from his birth in 1869 up to 1921. I gave a copy of this to all the young people I knew when they graduated from high school. I highly recommend it as the best way to get a clear idea of Ghandi's beliefs. My father was stationed in India and China during WWII and went to take darshan [to be in the presence of] with Ghandi when he was in prison in New Delhi and spoke of the experience as very moving. Thousands of people gathered at the fence around his compound to get the merest glimpse of him. If I recall correctly, my dad saw him in 1944.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: What are you trying to say?


You're supposed to be ignoring me, remember?

Eat your blueberries. You wouldn't understand if I explained it to you so what does it matter?

Doesn't amount to a Hillary of beans.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Go do the laundry and accomplish something useful.


You simply cannot ignore me - I'm very flattered.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> To RUknitting
> I was not commenting about the president or to anything you posted. This quote was from an earlier discussion. I believe we should all honor our country and the flag. I am sitting here knitting and minding my own business.
> Yes, my father served this country well and was proud to be an American citizen. I want everyone to know that people who do not call themselves conservatives are also patriots who serve their country. Somehow some seem to think that conservatives are the only patriots. Not true.


Thanks for pointing that out, Andrea. The right don't think anyone loves this country but them. That is why it is so sad that they are doing everything in their power to destroy it. I have had relatives in every war back to the civil war and some of the folks on the right carry on like they are still fighting that one. They certainly aren't the grand old party anymore and certainly not patriots.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Good night friends. Indy 500 tomorrow. Get some time to yourselves over the weekend and always.


Good night damemary. Enjoy the race!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They certainly aren't the grand old party anymore and certainly not patriots.


It's really astonishing to remember that Lincoln was a Republican. He must be spinning in his grave to see what's become of his Party.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SS response to Ghandi post
Thank you for recommending the book and for sharing the story about your dad.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> And doesn't it bother you that he is the President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017? I like the man. He seems caring and totally himself.


still cannot ignore me? - your word is no good - don't bother answering = rhetorical ?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's really astonishing to remember that Lincoln was a Republican. He must be spinning in his grave to see what's become of his Party.


I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> still cannot ignore me? - your word is no good - don't bother answering = rhetorical ?


Time to call it a night, Tin Man. Better luck tomorrow.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They think they know everything Patty, especially the little guy but obviously they just blow a lot of hot air. Good to see you this evening.


can you provide one, just one, post of evidence? waiting ....
love, the TinMan


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


Yes, he did. Our losing streak didn't begin until the nation pulled the lever and got the Reagan/Bush/Bush combination--all lemons.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He may just be knock kneed to Susan but I would bet on fear of the good ladies on the left.


Cheeky Blighter: I do not fear you or your friends on the left.

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your _God._ I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Ghandi wrote "An Autobiography: My Experiments with Truth" published in 1929, but dealing with his life from his birth in 1869 up to 1921. I gave a copy of this to all the young people I knew when they graduated from high school. I highly recommend it as the best way to get a clear idea of Ghandi's beliefs. My father was stationed in India and China during WWII and went to take darshan [to be in the presence of] with Ghandi when he was in prison in New Delhi and spoke of the experience as very moving. Thousands of people gathered at the fence around his compound to get the merest glimpse of him. If I recall correctly, my dad saw him in 1944.


How fortunate for your Father, Seattle. He was one person who I would loved to have seen. He was a beautiful soul.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


Yes he was a very good man.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jesus loves you, remember?


Yes, this I know for the _Bible_ tells me so.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

KPG, considering what you said about what "Thou shalt Not Kill" really means, I don't care what the Bible says, what God said or what Jesus said about killing. It looks like I disagree with God and Jesus and I don't mind one bit. I would far rather sin by being a pacifist than to sin by being a killer of other humans. It looks like I'm going to have to go to confession every Saturday from now until I die, but I'd rather have to do that than believe there is ever any reason for war. Consider what Ghandi accomplished through pacifism and civil disobedience. There never is a justification for war and there never will be.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Going to call it a night. Sweet dreams, all.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Time to call it a night, Tin Man. Better luck tomorrow.


Bye Clueless.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's really astonishing to remember that Lincoln was a Republican. He must be spinning in his grave to see what's become of his Party.


I find it amazing that the Republican Party was once an idealistic party that supported abolition. The party is sorely in need of reinventing itself to appeal to a broader base of voters. I think they would do well to look at their roots.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


ike also was the one who first used the term "military-industrial complex". I'm not entirely sure I approve of his Presidency. I'm tempted to think he should have followed Cincinattus' example.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's really astonishing to remember that Lincoln was a Republican.


You could learn something by following his lead and understanding his Gettysburg's address would be a great start for this weekend.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> KPG, considering what you said about what "Thou shalt Not Kill" really means, I don't care what the Bible says, what God said or what Jesus said about killing. It looks like I disagree with God and Jesus and I don't mind one bit. I would far rather sin by being a pacifist than to sin by being a killer of other humans. It looks like I'm going to have to go to confession every Saturday from now until I die, but I'd rather have to do that than believe there is ever any reason for war. Consider what Ghandi accomplished through pacifism and civil disobedience. There never is a justification for war and there never will be.


SS, I'm sad to say don't waste your time studying the word, or going to confession. If you truly mean what you wrote, that you don't care what the Bible says, what God said, or what Jesus said about ANY subject, then you will go to Hell for eternal damnation.

There is only one who spoke the Truth and gave his life for all sinners, and it isn't you.

Also, don't respond to me again as you said you would not. At least be good for your word 'cause lady, that's all you've got now.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> KPG, considering what you said about what "Thou shalt Not Kill" really means, I don't care what the Bible says, what God said or what Jesus said about killing. It looks like I disagree with God and Jesus and I don't mind one bit. I would far rather sin by being a pacifist than to sin by being a killer of other humans. It looks like I'm going to have to go to confession every Saturday from now until I die, but I'd rather have to do that than believe there is ever any reason for war. Consider what Ghandi accomplished through pacifism and civil disobedience. There never is a justification for war and there never will be.


I'm very sorry you just denied the Word of _God three times_; you cannot pick and chose what you'd like to believe in the good book; I pray for your soul.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Talking to yourself again, KPG?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ghandi would never associate with you people on the right. He was a pacifist and lived and died standing up against people like you with no aggression and you folks on the right love your guns and wars. Better go back to school and take a refresher course off. You haven't a clue once again what you are talking about.


I think we are at the fighting phase. You once again proved how appropriate the word assume relates to you. Don't assume I love or hate anything. Don't assume or suggest that I need to go back to school. (Besides that who would want to go into that hell hole of tenured liberalism?). Don't assume I love war.

But please keep fighting, because I love that you prove my point


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh this is a hilarious visualization. Dame aka womanfolk going to an Indy or NASCAR race. Almost as funny is her going to Texas to watch a rodeo. Can you imagine her at those places, having to be with all those God fearing,flag waving and country loving people? 

Wouldn't you pay money to have her wear an Obama tee shirt there? Remember how Michelle and Joe Biden's wife got booed at a NASCAR race?

I also believe Obama wore that pin and placed his hand over his heart because it was another photo op.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm laughing out loud. You are a grandiose little man.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky Blighter: I do not fear you or your friends on the left.
> 
> Isaiah 41:10
> So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your _God._ I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Oh this is a hilarious visualization. Dame aka womanfolk going to an Indy or NASCAR race. Almost as funny is her going to Texas to watch a rodeo. Can you imagine her at those places, having to be with all those God fearing,flag waving and country loving people?
> 
> Wouldn't you pay money to have her wear an Obama tee shirt there? Remember how Michelle and Joe Biden's wife got booed at a NASCAR race?


Damemary obviously isn't aware of what is thought of those who attend/watch! Whoda thought she'd be included in that group, but she, did place herself there. :shock:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit: I'm copying your post. I feel we've reached the final phase. Praise be to *God!* "Tetelestai"

First they ignore you. 
Then they ridicule you. 
Then they fight you. 
*Then you win. *
- Mahatma Ghandi


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He may just be knock kneed to Susan but I would bet on fear of the good ladies on the left.


 Agreed - the ladies on the left are full of fear. And a good bit of anger, too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He may just be knock kneed to Susan but I would bet on fear of the good ladies on the left.


Fear of the good ladies of the left - yes, the ladies on the left are indeed full of fear.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> With all due respect, Bonnie, the last admimistration was quite deceptive themselves.
> Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater, etc.


The problem is - we've "moved on" from that administration and are now trying to deal with this one.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


Yeah, he was a Republican. So was Abraham Lincoln.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My goodness, you do like to lie!


Taken after the criticism that he didn't do these things? Not saying it's so, but just asking.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) Why don't you simply ignore me then and stop responding? No self-control?
> 
> 2) I've not said I'm retired. Why are you so interested in someone you've heard enough of. No self-control?
> 
> 3) Try blueberries - I've heard they are great for memory loss


This thread has become intolerable! Knitpresentgifts hasn't been on here that long, and immediately she was pounced on. I've gone back to her first posts, and I don't see that she initiated any of this.

You women really should take a long look at what you're doing. It's called bullying. About four or five of you have ganged up on one person like a bunch of cruel children. It's contemptible .

We don't allow our children to behave like that. I could name names, but they're out there for all to see, and you know who you are. I don't know why this is such a kick for you, but it's not acceptable adult behavior in this society. And it's not healthy. Good grief!

Think for just a minute what your children would think. Suppose something happened to you, and they went through your computer. Wouldn't they be a little disappointed in you? Please stop this.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Bon, I do believe that when people act angrily they are full of fear. So when they lash out at such a nice person that disagrees with them, they are afraid because they know she is right. The angrier they are makes it very obvious the more terrified they are about the facts or that person.

Hope that comforts you


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> This thread has become intolerable!
> Think for just a minute what your children would think. Suppose something happened to you, and they went through your computer. Wouldn't they be a little disappointed in you? Please stop this.


I have also wondered the same thing.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

sjr, probably not, unfortunately. They probably raised angry and foul mouthed children, who would be proud of them. I mean, the apple does not fall far from the tree


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Without pin


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I find it amusing with all of you who callknitpresentgifts.

But yet you criticize Janeway for asking the same thing.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


you seem to have a problem understanding what is posted.

All the question marks seem to prove you should reread post again.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Oh, how clearly I remember when those of us who protested against the illegal, so-called War in Viet Nam were called traitors and worse when we were actually patriotic enough to object to watching the men of our generation being fed into the hopper to be cannon fodder so some some old white men could indulge their positions of power. How easy it is for those in power to forget that short, little commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill". And yet, on Memorial Day, I still remember what so many did to protect our country, in other wars.


Yes I remember the men returning from that war were spit on yelled at and called foul names. So much for peace, and honoring the ones who died in that war.
Even if you did not believe in that war, to treat the men who went to fight it was a horrible way to honor those who died and those who returned.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> This thread has become intolerable! Knitpresentgifts hasn't been on here that long, and immediately she was pounced on. I've gone back to her first posts, and I don't see that she initiated any of this.
> 
> You women really should take a long look at what you're doing. It's called bullying...We don't allow our children to behave like that... I don't know why this is such a kick for you, but it's not acceptable adult behavior in this society. And it's not healthy...Think for just a minute what your children would think. Suppose something happened to you, and they went through your computer. Wouldn't they, be a little disappointed in you? Please stop this.


Bonbf3,I'm only quoting part of what you said, what really spoke to me. Having stated that I'm a pacifist and that I considerr the commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" applies to all killing of people, including in war, someone who considers herself a good Christian has attacked me and told me that I'm going to go to Hell.

The Bible has been quoted to let me to show me the error of my ways. It's been used as part of the attack on me, and my attacker may as well have just hit me over the head with a Bible as quote passages of it like they were weapons.

I don't care if God and Jesus aren't pacifists. I am and that's all there is to it. One thing I do wonder is how those who tried to convince me of the error of my ways explain the beliefs of the Society of Friends.

I hope we can keep this thread going by ignoring those who post here in ugly, bullying ways. When real discussion is going on here, it's a great place.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> In the movie, yes--I guess you haven't read the book either.


Nope don't read fairy tale books. History, Biographys, and the Bible more to my liking.

But the movie was nice.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes I remember the men returning from that war were spit on yelled at and called foul names. So much for peace, and honoring the ones who died in that war.
> Even if you did not believe in that war, to treat the men who went to fight it was a horrible way to honor those who died and those who returned.


I heard about how some men who came home from Viet Nam were treated. I never treated a single one of them badly and I don't know anyone who did. Those men weren't responsible for that so-called war. Men in high positions of power were, and they got and deserved all the protests aimed at them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes I remember the men returning from that war were spit on yelled at and called foul names. So much for peace, and honoring the ones who died in that war.
> Even if you did not believe in that war, to treat the men who went to fight it was a horrible way to honor those who died and those who returned.


Yes, it was--as bad as razzing the wives of our President and Vice President at NASCAR and other public events.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Nope don't read fairy tale books. History, Biographys, and the Bible more to my liking.
> 
> But the movie was nice.


Yes, dismiss the book as a waste of time but do watch the movie--it's no wonder America ranks #17 in terms of education.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Yeah, he was a Republican. So was Abraham Lincoln.


The idealism of the GOP has been abandonded and galls me to think of the Republican Party as it was when Lincoln was a member. The idealism of the GOP has been thrown away, leaving a party sadly in need of reconstruction.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bonbf3,I'm only quoting part of what you said, what really spoke to me. Having stated that I'm a pacifist and that I considerr the commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" applies to all killing of people, including in war, Someone who considers herself a good Christian has attacked me and told me that I'm going to go to Hell.
> 
> The Bible has been quoted to let me to show me the error of my ways. It's been used as part of the attack on me, and my attacker may as well have just hit me over the head with a Bible as quote many passages of it like they were weapons.
> 
> ...


Yes, I saw that series of posts yesterday--sorry, SS. I'm with you in that I will not kill another--nor do I believe God will demand this of me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> That's an excellent reason to resist war all the more. The more we practice peace, the fewer wars and rumors of war will be with us. Ghandi wasn't a Christian but he was right on about the power of pacifism. We would do well to learn from him.


yes and most of the other people who haave different religions took their beliefs took their words from the Bible.

Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war!Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men approach and attack. Hammer your plow-blades into swords and your pruning-knives into spears. Let the weak say, 'I am strong.' Hurry, come, you surrounding nations gather yourselves together!"
Bring your warriors down. God! 
Joel: 9-11
Had to correct the word have, don't want to hear about my spelling again.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I think we are at the fighting phase. You once again proved how appropriate the word assume relates to you. Don't assume I love or hate anything. Don't assume or suggest that I need to go back to school. (Besides that who would want to go into that hell hole of tenured liberalism?). Don't assume I love war.
> 
> But please keep fighting, because I love that you prove my point


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> The idealism of the GOP has been abandonded and galls me to think of the Republican Party as it was when Lincoln was a member. The idealism of the GOP has been thrown away, leaving a party sadly in need of reconstruction.


...or at least a new name if reconstruction proves impossible. I give them credit for trying, but I think it's hard to convince the ultra-rightists to keep their lips zipped until after the next election.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lincoln not rolling over in his grave. His soul is in heaven. He read the Bible every day.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Theyarnlady, I don't mind if your spelling isn't perfect. What's important to me is that I will not cease to be a pacifist no matter how many passages of the Bible are thrown at me.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Without pin


And only started wearing it because he was criticize for not wearing it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yes and most of the other people who have different religions took their beliefs and their words from the Bible.


And who might these plagiarists be? Buddhists? Taoists? Shintoists? There are twenty-one major religions in the world, and only three--Christianity, Judaism, and Islam--trace their origins back to Abraham.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you don't like the message, attack the messenger.


yes and they are ignoring us now. Couldn't ask for anything better could we. :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...or at least a new name if reconstruction proves impossible. I give them credit for trying, but I think it's hard to convince the ultra-rightists to keep their lips zipped until after the next election.


Liberal Republicans are a good example of who isn't represented by the GOP as it is now. A noticeable number of them have become conservative Democrats to find the representation they want.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Lincoln not rolling over in his grave. His soul is in heaven. He read the Bible every day.


Yes, and he was a Republican too. Guess that made it a sure thing.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it was--as bad as razzing the wives of our President and Vice President at NASCAR and other public events.


Don't think so, No one spit at the two of them. No one called them traitors. No one threw stuff at them. No one yelled at them, killers. But they did boo at them too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Liberal Republicans are a good example of who isn't represented by the GOP as it is now. A noticeable number of them have become conservative Democrats to find the representation they want.


Frankly I think we need more than two major parties. There's a world of difference a conservative Republican and a liberal one. Same for the Democrats--the lefties in no way resemble the rightists.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bonbf3,I'm only quoting part of what you said, what really spoke to me. Having stated that I'm a pacifist and that I considerr the commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" applies to all killing of people, including in war, someone who considers herself a good Christian has attacked me and told me that I'm going to go to Hell.
> 
> The Bible has been quoted to let me to show me the error of my ways. It's been used as part of the attack on me, and my attacker may as well have just hit me over the head with a Bible as quote passages of it like they were weapons.
> 
> ...


Not attacking you said that there should be no wars. Just wanted to prove that there will always be wars. Even when you want peace there will be no peace.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Don't think so, No one spit at the two of them. No one called them traitors. No one threw stuff at them. No one yelled at them, killers. But they did boo at them too.


Yes, and that's rude and disrespectful in itself. I wouldn't condone anyone who booed returning vets either.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I think we need more than two major parties. There's a world of difference a conservative Republican and a liberal one. Same for the Democrats--the lefties in no way resemble the rightists.


I would love to see more parties in this country. Other democratic countries have more than two parties, and I think their citizens are represented much better than ours are.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, dismiss the book as a waste of time but do watch the movie--it's no wonder America ranks #17 in terms of education.


No again you are not understand what I meant. You said I do not read anything.

So I answered your question. Still do not read fairy tales, just not to my liking. 
Doesn't mean I could not enjoy the movie.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> The idealism of the GOP has been abandonded and galls me to think of the Republican Party as it was when Lincoln was a member. The idealism of the GOP has been thrown away, leaving a party sadly in need of reconstruction.


As have both party's it seem to me. We might have to rethink what is wrong and what is right in both parties. Regroup and get it right the next time.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I would love to see more parties in this country. Other democratic countries have more than two parties, and I think their citizens are represented much better than ours are.


Maybe we need a Parliamentary system? Somehow that form of government seems to encourage multiple parties.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...or at least a new name if reconstruction proves impossible. I give them credit for trying, but I think it's hard to convince the ultra-rightists to keep their lips zipped until after the next election.


No that's why this country has freedom of speech. Would not like to see anyone have it taken away from them right or left.

That is what Dictator's do, and look what happens to the countries that do do it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Theyarnlady, I don't mind if your spelling isn't perfect. What's important to me is that I will not cease to be a pacifist no matter how many passages of the Bible are thrown at me.


That is your right, but when you say you would not follow the Bible and believe what it said, then say you are studying to be a Catholic, I would think you would want to know the words God put forth.

Still not trying to change your mind but you were the one who said you did not believe God would proclaim war. I wanted to show you that he had.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No again you are not understand what I meant. You said I do not read anything.
> 
> So I answered your question. Still do not read fairy tales, just not to my liking.
> Doesn't mean I could not enjoy the movie.


To each his own--and in fact I enjoyed the movie as well. Before the days of DVDs they used to show it once a year--usually around Easter--and I remember how exciting that time was.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Not attacking you said that there should be no wars. Just wanted to prove that there will always be wars. Even when you want peace there will be no peace.


I'm glad you aren't attacking me, and that you let me know you weren't I'm sure wars will continue to be waged far into the future but I still hope that they won't and still pray that they don't.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Bon, I do believe that when people act angrily they are full of fear. So when they lash out at such a nice person that disagrees with them, they are afraid because they know she is right. The angrier they are makes it very obvious the more terrified they are about the facts or that person.
> 
> Hope that comforts you


Thank you, off2knit. I had responded to a post about that very thing. I don't think it's shown up yet. We should all remember that what we write online or on the computer doesn't really go away.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I will try to look at these people who are insulting as fearful instead of just "bad people". Thanks for the insight.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I will try to look at these people who are insulting as fearful instead of just "bad people". Thanks for the insight.


I'm with you on that too.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I have tried to answer in a kind way today like Bon does. Sure it won't last but tried Bon.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, off2knit. I had responded to a post about that very thing. I don't think it's shown up yet. We should all remember that what we write online or on the computer doesn't really go away.


I love your hydrangea Bon. Have two of them but they started to turn pink so had to put some special meal around them to get them to stay Blue. Hope it works. Have a red one and the tall white ones hanging over fence have to tie them down.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I have tried to answer in a kind way today like Bon does. Sure it won't last but tried Bon.


Think of it as an interesting challenge. Or - sometimes I think to myself, WWJD? Helps me answer a lot of questions in my life. Sometimes He would do the opposite of what I WANT to do - that's where the challenge is.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> That is your right, but when you say you would not follow the Bible and believe what it said, then say you are studying to be a Catholic, I would think you would want to know the words God put forth.
> 
> Still not trying to change your mind but you were the one who said you did not believe God would proclaim war. I wanted to show you that he had.


I'm aware of the scriptural support that says God would proclaim war, and I appreciate that you aren't trying to change my mind. The only things I can do are to refuse to accept that God will continue to proclaim war, and to pray He will stay His hand. It seems I will have to continue to reject a few words in the Bible, even though I won't stop studying to become a Catholic.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Think of it as an interesting challenge. Or - sometimes I think to myself, WWJD? Helps me answer a lot of questions in my life. Sometimes He would do the opposite of what I WANT to do - that's where the challenge is.


Sunday morning and this thread has already started off with a bang. WWJD would be a great thing to say to yourself (not just you, Bonnie) with every Christian before writing a response. Sometimes it's difficult to do when angry words are directed at you or people you admire. And, a person is also characterized as weak or wimpy if s/he doesn't respond in kind. Re-read the last few pages and see if the unkind words, anger, and mocking come from just one side.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S. love the hydrangea!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I love your hydrangea Bon. Have two of them but they started to turn pink so had to put some special meal around them to get them to stay Blue. Hope it works. Have a red one and the tall white ones hanging over fence have to tie them down.


Thank you. I don't have my pix on here,but I do have two hydrangeas just like that - my favorite shrub.

I've never seen a red one - would like to. I didn't even know there was such a thing. The white ones are gorgeous. There are so many varieties.

I have a story about that. (Wouldn't you know it.) For years, we've had two big blue hydrangeas out back. Two years ago, my two daughters were pregnant at the same time. Since we have a lot of boys (two to one), we were secretly hoping for a girl. A few weeks into summer, I noticed that the hydrangea had spread. There was a brand new shrub, just about two and a half feet tall. It was only about three feet from the blue parent bush - and it had two pink blooms. August came - baby boy. December came - Jane's first baby girl! I said that shrub was a sign.

So strange - just a few feet away. A few feet closer to our creek, and that must have been enough to make the difference in the soil. Soil in Georgia is very acidic - that makes blue. I guess the water near the creek (underground) diluted it.

This has been a perfect spring for the flowering trees and shrubs. The cold nights have kept them going for so long. How about up north?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> P.S. love the hydrangea!


Thank you!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You can be CB too or CB2


Cheeky Blighter said:


> GW is speaking to me Country Bumpkin, not you. I am CB too in case you hadn't noticed. :-D


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Is this the avatar that is displayed backwards because he was using his left hand? How did we know? It had his wedding ring on it. Pity the Incomp.



BrattyPatty said:


> You are starting to sound like a Playtex Living Bra!!!!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Is this the avatar that is displayed backwards because he was using his left hand? How did we know? It had his wedding ring on it. Pity the Incomp.


Here we go!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes I remember the men returning from that war were spit on yelled at and called foul names. So much for peace, and honoring the ones who died in that war.
> Even if you did not believe in that war, to treat the men who went to fight it was a horrible way to honor those who died and those who returned.


I agree.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Tomorrow I will give thanks to and remember well the great sacrifices so many made for our country in times of war.

I will nevert approve of those in high places who have been responsible for declaring wars, or the ones that built bigger and more terrible weapons. Bob Dylan said it far beter than I ever could, and I'll remember these words of his tommorrow, too. 

Masters of War by Bob Dylan, 1963

Come you masters of war, you that build the big guns
You that build the death planes, you that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls, you that hide behind desks
I just want you to know I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin but build to destroy
You play with my world like its your little toy
You put a gun in my hand and you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther when the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old you lie and deceive
A world war can be won you want me to believe
But I see through your eyes and I see through your brain
Like I see through the water that runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers for the others to fire
Then you sit back and watch while the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion while the young peoples blood
Flows out of their bodies and is buried in the mud

Youve thrown the worst fear that can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children into the world
For threatening my baby, unborn and unnamed
You isnt worth the blood that runs in your veins

How much do I know to speak out of turn?
You must say that Im young, you might say Im unlearned
But theres one thing I know though Im younger than you
That even Jesus would never forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question; is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness? Do you think that it could?
I think you will find when your death takes its toll
All the money you made will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die and your death will come soon
Ill follow your casket by the pale afternoon
And Ill watch while youre lowered down to your death bed
And Ill stand over your grave til Im sure that youre dead


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And you my dear don't know the difference between their and there.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary this person thinks he knows everything, just ask him and he will tell you and off thinks Ghandi would be on their side. I don't think she knows what pacifist means but I am not surprised as their is a lot she does not know.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it was--as bad as razzing the wives of our President and Vice President at NASCAR and other public events.


No, it was really much worse than being razzed.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And called the Corps the corpse. Can you imagine if Bush or Quale had mispronounced that and continued until someone heard FOX? Would he go to see the corpse of ballet?



knitpresentgifts said:


> not to mention when he touched the Queen, bowed to princes and other rulers, refused to wear an American flag pin, cancels National Prayer days then reinstates only under pressure, etc.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Love your new Hydrangea avatar and what it conveys. Very uplifting. Thanks!



bonbf3 said:


> LukeLucy has learned from experience. It's a good idea to take her advice! You can read without responding, but it takes a lot of will power.
> 
> Of course, you are good at responding!


   :-D :-D


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

It BOTHERS me and I just keep praying for him and our country. Hope he wouldn't do too much destruction until Jan 2017.



damemary said:


> And doesn't it bother you that he is the President of the United States of America and will be until January 2017? I like the man. He seems caring and totally himself.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And called the Corps the corpse. Can you imagine if Bush or Quale had mispronounced that and continued until someone heard FOX? Would he go to see the corpse of ballet?


This actually might be a fun topic to discuss. There have been thousand--perhaps tens of thousands--verbal slips and goofs coming out of Washington. These were headliners:

Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child.'
Dan Quayle, Vice President

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." --George W. Bush, in parting words to British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy at his final G-8 Summit, punching the air and grinning widely as the two leaders looked on in shock, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks for the Enlightenment!

Hope SS takes note.



knitpresentgifts said:


> wrong, wrong and more wrong:
> 
> Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, You shall not kill, and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And the Scarecrow can teach him how to think.

Anyone that can help o think I'm for them.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Welcome Back Momeee.



momeee said:


> Yes, there is no limit to the ways he disrespects and embarrasses our beloved country.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Any proof yet of _all_ the posts in which I said I was leaving?
> 
> Alcameron just posted she was leaving ... does that count as proof she will? :?:


We can only wish it were true, but alas, she keeps coming back. So sad.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> wrong, wrong and more wrong:
> 
> Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, You shall not kill, and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Thanks for the Enlightenment!
> Hope SS takes note.


I've taken note. I wiil go to my grave and my judgement as a pacifist who is deeply and sincerely anti-war, and against all manner of violence humans practice on each other.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it was--as bad as razzing the wives of our President and Vice President at NASCAR and other public events.


No not even close, our vets did not deserve that treatment


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Worth repeating



knitpresentgifts said:


> wrong, wrong and more wrong:
> 
> Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, You shall not kill, and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Don't believe her. She's WRONG. Check your original sources.



susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I didn't know that--until this evening. Frankly I'm stunned. It's scary to think of these kind of folks marching out every four years to cast their votes.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Adding to the non-reply list: Lukelooney. And Joeysomeonesmomma. Done!!!


How nice. it's good to know the immature womenfolk are staying.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

fyi l watch some of the races.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Damemary obviously isn't aware of what is thought of those who attend/watch! Whoda thought she'd be included in that group, but she, did place herself there. :shock:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I haven't seen Janeway for quite awhile.



theyarnlady said:


> I find it amusing with all of you who callknitpresentgifts.
> 
> But yet you criticize Janeway for asking the same thing.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm with you on ignoring those two, too. Thanks for the great suggestion. Let's ignore theyarnlady, too. She just replied to a post of mine in a way that could have easily got me jumping up and down and saying awful things.


Just pick a side already. Better yet, realize that neither side actually cares about you. Do yourself a favor and leave.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Welcome Back Momeee.


Thanks. 
This is worth listening to.

Judge Jeanine Pirro is smart articulate and has the correct perspective on the immoral and potentially criminal actions of the WH administration. Listen to this if you are interested in taking the blinders off :
http://www.fiscalconservatives.com/videos/SjwMzjVTctM.html

Then, read the comments...

If not, obumma supporters keep your head in the sand, keep being detractors and don't think of where our country will be in a few years, and definitely, continue not adding anything substantive to a real discussion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I read it several times. I'll just ignore it. Thanks. ''



theyarnlady said:


> you seem to have a problem understanding what is posted.
> 
> All the question marks seem to prove you should reread post again.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And called the Corps the corpse. Can you imagine if Bush or Quale had mispronounced that and continued until someone heard FOX? Would he go to see the corpse of ballet?


That was awful. I'll admit I cringed for him.

Imagine at his age, and in his position, never having run into the word "corps."

If Bush or Quayle had done it, it would have been all over the late night "comedy show." They have been humiliated.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...or at least a new name if reconstruction proves impossible. I give them credit for trying, but I think it's hard to convince the ultra-rightists to keep their lips zipped until after the next election.


When I think of The Reconstruction it was to repair our country back to it's glory. So, I hope we have a glorious New Reconstruction, bringing our country back to the beliefs of our Founding Fathers, and rid our country of an administration that believes that it is there to control the people not serve them. To rid our country of an administration that deserts our citizens so that they are left to die a horrific death while they nap. To rid our country of an administration that makes false heinous charges against reporters to spy on them and their families. To rid our country of an administration that uses the IRS to target political enemies.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> When I think of The Reconstruction it was to repair our country back to it's glory. So, I hope we have a glorious New Reconstruction, bringing our country back to the beliefs of our Founding Fathers, and rid our country of an administration that believes that it is there to control the people not serve them. To rid our country of an administration that deserts our citizens so that they are left to die a horrific death while they nap. To rid our country of an administration that makes false heinous charges against reporters to spy on them and their families. To rid our country of an administration that uses the IRS to target political enemies.


Well said.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't find anything like this in my Bible, King James version. IMHO not very uplifting in your version, but it does give me an idea of why we have different opinions.

Isn't it time for your cookies?



theyarnlady said:


> yes and most of the other people who haave different religions took their beliefs took their words from the Bible.
> 
> Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war!Rouse the warriors! Let all the fighting men approach and attack. Hammer your plow-blades into swords and your pruning-knives into spears. Let the weak say, 'I am strong.' Hurry, come, you surrounding nations gather yourselves together!"
> Bring your warriors down. God!
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I've taken note. I wiil go to my grave and my judgement as a pacifist who is deeply and sincerely anti-war, and against all manner of violence humans practice on each other.


Don't you think that most folks here are pacifists? I certainly am, and never want (ed) a drop of American blood to be spilled, ever. However, I would defend, to my death, my country and my freedom. 
What would you do, or how would your respond to the many threats, and actual attacks (with deaths and injuries) that have occurred for decades? Some cultures are so hate filled, single-minded in their desire to conquer, destroy, etc. that they cannot be bribed, paid off, negotiated with pacified...Is it a male psyche that wants war? Where does one draw the line? Did any administration get it right?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And he does put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem and does wear a flag pin.


Now he does because he was shamed into doing so.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> When I think of The Reconstruction it was to repair our country back to it's glory. So, I hope we have a glorious New Reconstruction, bringing our country back to the beliefs of our Founding Fathers, and rid our country of an administration that believes that it is there to control the people not serve them. To rid our country of an administration that deserts our citizens so that they are left to die a horrific death while they nap. To rid our country of an administration that makes false heinous charges against reporters to spy on them and their families. To rid our country of an administration that uses the IRS to target political enemies.


 Nicely said. Valid loyal American sentiments. I agree.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: too bad he doesn't have enough shame to pack his bags and leave...but there is too much self-adoration in that man.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And that's a good thing.



susanmos2000 said:


> ...or at least a new name if reconstruction proves impossible. I give them credit for trying, but I think it's hard to convince the ultra-rightists to keep their lips zipped until after the next election.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


It's not at all astonishing to know that Obama is a Democrat and NOT the least bit good for this country.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes wars have been waged since the birth of mankind. Don't we say, 'if you try something and it's not working, try something else.? ' Give peace a chance. John Lennon


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> We can only wish it were true, but alas, she keeps coming back. So sad.


Wasn't addressing anyone except CB2 and she knew I was leaving for awhile.
I promise to stick around to make sure the righties don't pollute the Sabbath, but, alas, i'm too late as the pollution has begun.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's not at all astonishing to know that Obama is a Democrat and NOT the least bit good for this country.


More pollution


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ghandi would never associate with you people on the right. He was a pacifist and lived and died standing up against people like you with no aggression and you folks on the right love your guns and wars. Better go back to school and take a refresher course off. You haven't a clue once again what you are talking about.


At last. I started to write something on this yesterday, but I was too full of words and couldn't make anything as succinct as you just managed.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> This thread has become intolerable! Knitpresentgifts hasn't been on here that long, and immediately she was pounced on. I've gone back to her first posts, and I don't see that she initiated any of this.
> 
> You women really should take a long look at what you're doing. It's called bullying. About four or five of you have ganged up on one person like a bunch of cruel children. It's contemptible .
> 
> ...


Bonnie, this is their mentality. They gang up on one person because it deludes them into thinking they are strong. One on one, they wouldn't stand a chance. That is how bullies operate. There is one bully and the rest just parrot the bully. Nothing new, been going on for ages. It is the MO of the Obama/Chicago style politics.

Their children will be behaving the same way as they do. After all, who taught them? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why do you think other parties are not part of the mix? Like gerrymandering, they always try to work it out in their favor.....three or more parties would make that impossible. Ralph Nader running is said to have thrown the election to the GOP. He says that was not his intention. 

As long as we're dreaming, why not throw money out of the election. Each candidate gets a fixed sum from our taxes. They are not allowed to donate from their own pockets, or raise money from any other sources or they are punished severely. As a public service, the media offers a number of formal debates with unbiased moderators. Ads are not permitted. (Not sure how to keep the little buggers from buying media to present their version of the 
'truth.' )Candidates can provide structured forms approved by Election Board. All elections will be grouped to save money. Time running for office to be strictly limited and decided by the office. (Sherriff gets less time than President.)

Opinions?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, dismiss the book as a waste of time but do watch the movie--it's no wonder America ranks #17 in terms of education.


Another way to look at that is the indoctrination is NOT working.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Another way to look at that is the indoctrination is NOT working.


So people who read are indoctrinated?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Soloweygirl girl:
You don't believe in ganging up on someone?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some would say it is an effective tactic in war.



alcameron said:


> Soloweygirl girl:
> You don't believe in ganging up on someone?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

momeee said:


> Don't you think that most folks here are pacifists? I certainly am, and never want (ed) a drop of American blood to be spilled, ever. However, I would defend, to my death, my country and my freedom.
> What would you do, or how would your respond to the many threats, and actual attacks (with deaths and injuries) that have occurred for decades? Some cultures are so hate filled, single-minded in their desire to conquer, destroy, etc. that they cannot be bribed, paid off, negotiated with pacified...Is it a male psyche that wants war? Where does one draw the line? Did any administration get it right?


No, I don't think enough people here are pacifists, and am certain that there are too few pacifists in our country. I think some administrations got it right in their terms, not mine. I support the current administration generally, but I do not respect or agree with our President's actions as Commander in Chief.

The pacifist's only response is to stand in front of whatever violence that is taking place and die for their position if that's the only way to resist violence. Ghandi had it right, achieved much for his country, and didn't back down even when the question of Pakistan becoming a separate nation from India resulted in his assassination. I consider him an incredibly good role model.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I don't find it surprising that Carter, Clinton or o were/ are dems.



alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Damemary re: throwing money out of elections
I like the idea of this. It would enable people who aren't rich to run without having to be indebted to donors and would even the playing field. Don't know how it would be accomplished.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And practiced brahmacharya (not sure if it's spelled correctly) with naked young girls. A little weird to me but otherwise he was a great human.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes he was a very good man.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm very sorry you just denied the Word of _God three times_; you cannot pick and chose what you'd like to believe in the good book; I pray for your soul.


Done any stoning lately?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And remember he said "when there is a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."



SeattleSoul said:


> KPG, considering what you said about what "Thou shalt Not Kill" really means, I don't care what the Bible says, what God said or what Jesus said about killing. It looks like I disagree with God and Jesus and I don't mind one bit. I would far rather sin by being a pacifist than to sin by being a killer of other humans. It looks like I'm going to have to go to confession every Saturday from now until I die, but I'd rather have to do that than believe there is ever any reason for war. Consider what Ghandi accomplished through pacifism and civil disobedience. There never is a justification for war and there never will be.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Bonnie, this is their mentality. They gang up on one person because it deludes them into thinking they are strong. One on one, they wouldn't stand a chance. That is how bullies operate. There is one bully and the rest just parrot the bully. Nothing new, been going on for ages. It is the MO of the Obama/Chicago style politics.
> 
> Their children will be behaving the same way as they do. After all, who taught them? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


Peacegodddess and I received a PM from a member of KP and also Ravelry. I have never heard of this person until this PM came. It seems a woman was ranting over my mention of Japan and China, that she had been there and
that we were idiots and had no idea what we were talking about, especially when it came to the military. She said that she could teach us a thing or two. and rant, rant, rant....
The same day this new "wonderful loving person" joins the site and starts in.
You can't tell me that you guys didn't bring her in to start another war here on KP. Her mentions of travelling to China gave her away and her supposed knowledge of everything military.
I was attacked by her before she came here. She is a troll brought into this thread just to cause trouble. I guess having Cheeky Blighter come back rattled a few cages.
So don't sit and say this woman is so loving and friendly, because one of your friends on Ravelry gave her away and her post was far from what you described. I don't fear her, I pity her.
When peacegoddedss gets back from vacation, she can collaborate this, as she still may have the message in her inbox.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

L'Oreal to the rescue!



SeattleSoul said:


> I find it amazing that the Republican Party was once an idealistic party that supported abolition. The party is sorely in need of reinventing itself to appeal to a broader base of voters. I think they would do well to look at their roots.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty: I've read the post. S/he spouts quite a mouthful for someone who quotes the Bible with the same mouth.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Done any stoning lately?


Every day since she's been here, Anne.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> BrattyPatty: I've read the post. S/he spouts quite a mouthful for someone who quotes the Bible with the same mouth.


Disgusting, isn't it?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Disgusting, isn't it?


Yup


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Back to war? I'm ready to go down fighting.



alcameron said:


> Damemary re: throwing money out of elections
> I like the idea of this. It would enable people who aren't rich to run without having to be indebted to donors and would even the playing field. Don't know how it would be accomplished.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Personally I think there is a lot of lies being spewed over the last two pages. Speaking about an alleged PM, from an anonymous person, about an alleged post. How can any of this be taken seriously without proof?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

momeee said:


> Thanks.
> This is worth listening to.
> 
> Judge Jeanine Pirro is smart articulate and has the correct perspective on the immoral and potentially criminal actions of the WH administration. Listen to this if you are interested in taking the blinders off :
> ...


The country needs more people like Judge Pirro. The MSM could learn, no make that re-learn, what a reporter should be doing. Their focus should be on keeping the government honest.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Personally I think there is a lot of lies being spewed over the last two pages. Speaking about an alleged PM, from an anonymous person, about an alleged post. How can any of this be taken seriously without proof?


This is not a court of law, birdbrain. The post was copied from Ravelry and sent in a PM. I deleted it, but I am sure peacegoddess has hers.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe we need a Parliamentary system? Somehow that form of government seems to encourage multiple parties.


Why don't you start a new party? You know you would have 10 votes for sure just like the Green party.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe we know who the alleged PM person is. Are you doubting the person who wrote this? I don't.



off2knit said:


> Personally I think there is a lot of lies being spewed over the last two pages. Speaking about an alleged PM, from an anonymous person, about an alleged post. How can any of this be taken seriously without proof?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:



> Maybe we know who the alleged PM person is. Are you doubting the person who wrote this? I don't.


Absolutely

Why would I believe someone that resorts to name calling every time she doesn't like a response?

Well some of you want to go down fighting, good, we have almost won.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Peacegodddess and I received a PM from a member of KP and also Ravelry. I have never heard of this person until this PM came. It seems a woman was ranting over my mention of Japan and China, that she had been there and
> that we were idiots and had no idea what we were talking about, especially when it came to the military. She said that she could teach us a thing or two. and rant, rant, rant....
> The same day this new "wonderful loving person" joins the site and starts in.
> You can't tell me that you guys didn't bring her in to start another war here on KP. Her mentions of travelling to China gave her away and her supposed knowledge of everything military.
> ...


You have been displaying this behavior long before this so called troll showed up. It is how you and your friends operate. Wasn't it the main reason Cheeky, you and a few others (from both sides) were asked to leave KP in the first place? You are not innocent as you claim to be. My post was not describing her, it was describing your behavior and MO.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just pick a side already. Better yet, realize that neither side actually cares about you. Do yourself a favor and leave.


Do you mean SeattleSoul specifically, or do you mean that neither side actually cares about anyone?


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Damemary re: throwing money out of elections
> I like the idea of this. It would enable people who aren't rich to run without having to be indebted to donors and would even the playing field. Don't know how it would be accomplished.


I agree...one has to be very wealthy or able to attract big 'money supporters' in order to have any level of success...and how is that done? By prostituting oneself to the donors, backers, or buyers, right? The person who holds the purse strings calls the dance tune. Who was the last person of average means to hold high office?
So many on KP have been disdainful, hateful, distrusting of financially successful candidates...How do they think anyone gets elected? Look at the money trail. Good reason to limit contributions to candidates...it certainly doesn't keep them honest. We have no idea about the real money candidates collect, and how it is used and hidden - for personal enrichment.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> Don't you think that most folks here are pacifists? I certainly am, and never want (ed) a drop of American blood to be spilled, ever. However, I would defend, to my death, my country and my freedom.
> What would you do, or how would your respond to the many threats, and actual attacks (with deaths and injuries) that have occurred for decades? Some cultures are so hate filled, single-minded in their desire to conquer, destroy, etc. that they cannot be bribed, paid off, negotiated with pacified...Is it a male psyche that wants war? Where does one draw the line? Did any administration get it right?


That's the question for me, too. To think we go to war over land seems so wrong. But what do we do if someone threatens our lives or our freedom? Do we defend ourselves? Or do we martyr ourselves in the sense of dying for a cause?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You can be CB too or CB2


No I am the orginial CB. I have never changed my kp name. So she is CB 2 for now. :hunf:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Do you mean SeattleSoul specifically, or do you mean that neither side actually cares about anyone?


SS specifically. One day she is supporting the right, the next day it's the left. It does not appear that either side cares what she does or says.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> And that's a good thing.


If you think the people on here are "ultra-rightists," you've missed something.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> SS specifically. One day she is supporting the right, the next day it's the left. It does not appear that either side cares what she does or says.


Maybe she agrees with the left on some issues and with the right on others. I know I do. Abortion and capital punishment are examples for me.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> When I think of The Reconstruction it was to repair our country back to it's glory. So, I hope we have a glorious New Reconstruction, bringing our country back to the beliefs of our Founding Fathers, and rid our country of an administration that believes that it is there to control the people not serve them. To rid our country of an administration that deserts our citizens so that they are left to die a horrific death while they nap. To rid our country of an administration that makes false heinous charges against reporters to spy on them and their families. To rid our country of an administration that uses the IRS to target political enemies.


Amen me too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Bonnie, this is their mentality. They gang up on one person because it deludes them into thinking they are strong. One on one, they wouldn't stand a chance. That is how bullies operate. There is one bully and the rest just parrot the bully. Nothing new, been going on for ages. It is the MO of the Obama/Chicago style politics.
> 
> Their children will be behaving the same way as they do. After all, who taught them? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


Tsk tsk tsk.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember when John McCain tried election reform? Lead balloon.

The other thing about the money....30 second ads telling nothing and costing millions .... we need substance about the candidate....who area only beholden to us, not ghostly lobbyists.



momeee said:


> I agree...one has to be very wealthy or able to attract big 'money supporters' in order to have any level of success...and how is that done? By prostituting oneself to the donors, backers, or buyers, right? The person who holds the purse strings calls the dance tune. Who was the last person of average means to hold high office?
> So many on KP have been disdainful, hateful, distrusting of financially successful candidates...How do they think anyone gets elected? Look at the money trail. Good reason to limit contributions to candidates...it certainly doesn't keep them honest. We have no idea about the real money candidates collect, and how it is used and hidden - for personal enrichment.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe we know who the alleged PM person is. Are you doubting the person who wrote this? I don't.


It was from Run from Satan on the Other Side by someone named Gratitude
Here it is:
Someone please tell PeaceMonster and the Brat to shut their traps about health care in Japan. The two idiots no NOTHING about health care in Japan nor of how the Japanese think of Americans. In fact, tell them to shut their traps on every subject, most of which, they know NOTHING about!

I lived in Japan for years; have traveled literally around the world and the USA and visited more places and got to know the people of the land more than either of them combined ever read about. Some of my closest and dearest friends are Japanese living both in Japan or in the States.

I was the first American teacher in a private, elite Kindergarten, in private companies, in private homes (un-heard off), amongst friends in my Japanese home, in public community centers and even started as the entrepreneur I am, my own retail shop and American culture classes in Japan. When I taught English/Culture classes at a huge company (comparable to GE in the states), to businessmen and women, so many Japanese repeatedly signed up for my classes that my boss was forced to add three extra classes per week and even hired my husband to teach as well to teach the overflow of students! I took the time and interest to learn about the Japanese and learned the language as best I could while living in THEIR country as I taught about my home country. I taught Japanese adults about the history, the culture, the language and the civics of America.

I learned much from my Japanese friends, bosses and students. I loved Japan and its people. Yet, I NEVER apologized for my country or our freedoms nor beliefs. PeaceMonster should leave American and go live in the country she doesnt feel the need to apologize for.

The vast majority of Japanese LOVE Americans. Peacemonster has EVERYTHING to learn about how Americans are treated and revered by the Japanese and has NO right to speak about something she obviously knows NOTHING about. Typical Lib. Yes, I vacationed in Okinawa, and for Peacemonster to bring up one incident that happened years ago for which punishment was swift and justified is her ignorant and desperate attempt to insult her own country and people for the acts of one or a few. What a Moron.

Perhaps someone ought to tell Monster and Brat that the handicapped in Japan still did not have access to trains, the most used way of travel in Japan, as of ten years ago and to this day those with special needs are still hidden and shamed and/or ignored. I was shocked to see the way handicapped individuals were treated. I was also very surprised to learn about the classes and culture of employment, education and the standards and health care in Japan.

Japan is an excellent country, I adored the time I lived there, yet I am most proud of America in the majority of the way Americans live and of the freedoms we enjoy. Americas IS an EXCEPTIONAL Nation, and America IS the KING of the world that most want to emulate INCLUDING the Japanese. NO country helps more countries or their own countrymen than America.

P.S. Monster and Brat: The standard joke was to not get sick while living in Japan, but while on vacation to the States.

Too bad the ignorant over on the other site who speak the loudest have NO CLUE of the realities of which they speak.

Other than that I have no opinions of the demons on the other side! snort
6 days ago 
Gratitude

Well, Gratitude/KPG you have been busted. And you will be treated like a troll henceforth. I am asking the Ladies on the left to ignore this blowhard and not respond to anything he/she writes in this forum. Holy Bible, my arse.
This IS Satan.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How do you describe yourselves?



bonbf3 said:


> If you think the people on here are "ultra-rightists," you've missed something.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Why do you think other parties are not part of the mix? Like gerrymandering, they always try to work it out in their favor.....three or more parties would make that impossible. Ralph Nader running is said to have thrown the election to the GOP. He says that was not his intention.
> 
> As long as we're dreaming, why not throw money out of the election. Each candidate gets a fixed sum from our taxes. They are not allowed to donate from their own pockets, or raise money from any other sources or they are punished severely. As a public service, the media offers a number of formal debates with unbiased moderators. Ads are not permitted. (Not sure how to keep the little buggers from buying media to present their version of the
> 'truth.' )Candidates can provide structured forms approved by Election Board. All elections will be grouped to save money. Time running for office to be strictly limited and decided by the office. (Sherriff gets less time than President.)
> ...


I absolutely agree. In my fantasy world I'd like an 'objective, fact -finding' organization whose job would be to review and evaluate the daily 'news', happenings, etc., and publish both sides of argument - UNBIASED (if possible) allowing fairer reporting, discussion,etc.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Why do you think other parties are not part of the mix? Like gerrymandering, they always try to work it out in their favor.....three or more parties would make that impossible. Ralph Nader running is said to have thrown the election to the GOP. He says that was not his intention.
> 
> As long as we're dreaming, why not throw money out of the election. Each candidate gets a fixed sum from our taxes. They are not allowed to donate from their own pockets, or raise money from any other sources or they are punished severely. As a public service, the media offers a number of formal debates with unbiased moderators. Ads are not permitted. (Not sure how to keep the little buggers from buying media to present their version of the
> 'truth.' )Candidates can provide structured forms approved by Election Board. All elections will be grouped to save money. Time running for office to be strictly limited and decided by the office. (Sherriff gets less time than President.)
> ...


good idea and I agree - also no tv except debates with IMPARTIAL moderators, preferably high school debate coaches.

If you want to know about the candidates, watch the debates, read their essays in the paper and magazines.

No Youtube videos either unless they are speeches, with equal time for each candidate. We have children of 18 voting - and they are swayed by someone's looks and aren't interested in anything you have to read. They'll vote for "celebrity."

No buying an election.

No winning by being the "coolest" kid on block.

No PACs, no special interest groups.

Integrity. Issues. Experience.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My, my Patty. Gertie certainly gets around for a kindergarten teacher, albeit in private homes. That is a most scary rant. Does Homeland Security know about it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> My, my Patty. Gertie certainly gets around for a kindergarten teacher, albeit in private homes. That is a most scary rant. Does Homeland Security know about it?


Imagine such a self proclaimed patriot step foot in a communist country!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm amazed. Election Reform seems to be striking hearts on both sides of the aisle.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I can find no thread called, run from satan..... or anyone called Gratitude on this site. 

Maybe you are the blowhard, because that thread does not exists or that person


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> good idea and I agree - also no tv except debates with IMPARTIAL moderators, preferably high school debate coaches.
> 
> If you want to know about the candidates, watch the debates, read their essays in the paper and magazines.
> 
> ...


And good background vetting, before being given the nomination.
Plus valid voter ID needed, picture, ? fingerprints... :-D


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was from Run from Satan on the Other Side by someone named Gratitude
> Here it is:
> Someone please tell PeaceMonster and the Brat to shut their traps about health care in Japan. The two idiots no NOTHING about health care in Japan nor of how the Japanese think of Americans. In fact, tell them to shut their traps on every subject, most of which, they know NOTHING about!
> 
> ...


You can't be serious! This has facts from personal experience, and the diatribe is mild compared to Cheeky Blight's small sub-group.

When you ignore them, that means you will pick another one of us to abuse. And if we all leave, you'll turn on each other. It doesn't sound too promising.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe it was stated that it came to them through Ravelry. Funny, you seem off.



off2knit said:


> I can find no thread called, run from satan..... or anyone called Gratitude on this site.
> 
> Maybe you are the blowhard, because that thread does not exists or that person


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I can find no thread called, run from satan..... or anyone called Gratitude on this site.
> 
> Maybe you are the blowhard, because that thread does not exists or that person


Are you that empty headed or just blind? I just posted the comment in this thread. READ!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. I'm off the thread for now.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> How do you describe yourselves?


Some are conservatives, some Republicans, some Independents - I imagine, don't know for sure.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I can find no thread called, run from satan..... or anyone called Gratitude on this site.
> 
> Maybe you are the blowhard, because that thread does not exists or that person


I've never seen anyone named Gratitude on KP or on any site I've been on. Nice name, though.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Take it any way you want to, Bonnie. It's a bonified troll.
The "demons" on the left are on to her. Such a warm and loving person she is. NOT She came here to breed contempt just like Satan would.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> And good background vetting, before being given the nomination.
> Plus valid voter ID needed, picture, ? fingerprints... :-D


Yes - and candidate vetting includes proof of the requirements to be president. Namely, original birth certificate.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never seen anyone named Gratitude on KP or on any site I've been on. Nice name, though.


Go look in Denim and Pearls on Ravelry. That is where the lady got the post from.
Bazin ga Bazinga! I'm out !


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

momeee said:


> I agree...one has to be very wealthy or able to attract big 'money supporters' in order to have any level of success...and how is that done? By prostituting oneself to the donors, backers, or buyers, right? The person who holds the purse strings calls the dance tune. Who was the last person of average means to hold high office?
> So many on KP have been disdainful, hateful, distrusting of financially successful candidates...How do they think anyone gets elected? Look at the money trail. Good reason to limit contributions to candidates...it certainly doesn't keep them honest. We have no idea about the real money candidates collect, and how it is used and hidden - for personal enrichment.


Canada changed political contribution laws several years ago; only individual contributions allowed ($1200 per year max). Initially, political parties were also paid $2 per vote cast in an election from taxes, but that is being phased out. This means that a party / candidate has to have broad based individual support to get funding


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are you that empty headed or just blind? I just posted the comment in this thread. READ!!!


It did not say that it was a group on Ravelry. All you said it was from someone that belongs to Ravelry and KP too. Perhaps you can post the link so that we can read what was said before and after to prove your accusation and alleged comment.

Please stop with the verbal assaults, so unbecoming of womenfolk.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I thought Kp Admin frowned on copying from other sites. Don't really know may be in the rules. Who is gertie? Sorry need coffee.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> And only started wearing it because he was criticize for not wearing it.


Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?


I don't think there were as questionable issues surrounding his background (other than being an actor!). No one questioned his loyalty, or desire to make the country a better place, did they? He didn't make any anti-American statements or do anything that one felt was disrespectful to this country...
I don't remember being very interested politically at that time in my life - so perhaps I missed something.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I love that "tenured liberalism" such a great capture. Sad that it is true.



off2knit said:


> I think we are at the fighting phase. You once again proved how appropriate the word assume relates to you. Don't assume I love or hate anything. Don't assume or suggest that I need to go back to school. (Besides that who would want to go into that hell hole of tenured liberalism?). Don't assume I love war.
> 
> But please keep fighting, because I love that you prove my point


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Why didn't o have the flag on Airforce 1 instead of his own personal flag? Or on his political campaining logos? Just sayin".


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And remember Jane Fonda and her ilk??? How many of our young men were torture victims of her doings?

She should have been brought up on treason charges.



theyarnlady said:


> Yes I remember the men returning from that war were spit on yelled at and called foul names. So much for peace, and honoring the ones who died in that war.
> Even if you did not believe in that war, to treat the men who went to fight it was a horrible way to honor those who died and those who returned.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Take it any way you want to, Bonnie. It's a bonified troll.
> The "demons" on the left are on to her. Such a warm and loving person she is. NOT She came here to breed contempt just like Satan would.


If so, then you and your friends came for the same reason.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We do have more than two parties. Check it out next time you vote. I happen to belong to one of them.



SeattleSoul said:


> I would love to see more parties in this country. Other democratic countries have more than two parties, and I think their citizens are represented much better than ours are.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Please read for content. Some adults read fairy tales and others read history books, adult novels, etc.. If the question of shoe color came up on Jeopardy then it would have been a good thing to have read the fairy tale.

I'm disappointed in you, as a writer you should have understood. How is that book coming along? Will we all get autographed copies?



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, dismiss the book as a waste of time but do watch the movie--it's no wonder America ranks #17 in terms of education.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Please read for content. Some adults read fairy tales and others read history books, adult novels, etc.. If the question of shoe color came up on Jeopardy then it would have been a good thing to have read the fairy tale.
> 
> I'm disappointed in you, as a writer you should have understood. How is that book coming along? Will we all get autographed copies?


You can have my copy.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Our being # 17th has nothing to do with whether someone read the book. Lots more about math and science. And it's sorta difficult to impose liberal ideas into those subjects. Although it is done with "Johnny good try." Johnny got the answer wrong but his effort was rewarded. Nice going Dept of education AKA the teachers union.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, dismiss the book as a waste of time but do watch the movie--it's no wonder America ranks #17 in terms of education.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?[/quote
> 
> The presidential flag lapel pin has been popular on and off since the Civil War. But after 9/11 it has been been worn until Obama chose not to wear one.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why didn't o have the flag on Airforce 1 instead of his own personal flag? Or on his political campaining logos? Just sayin".


Because he has narcissistic personality traits


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Also as comedians in need of new material or writers.

Except sometimes they're not funny. But usually they are.


Lukelucy said:


> I will try to look at these people who are insulting as fearful instead of just "bad people". Thanks for the insight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If so, then you and your friends came for the same reason.


We have been here for a long time solowey. Some of us even longer than you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

By the way Ingried says hello and she will be looking forward to seeing all of you again.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Well Said Off2knit



off2knit said:


> When I think of The Reconstruction it was to repair our country back to it's glory. So, I hope we have a glorious New Reconstruction, bringing our country back to the beliefs of our Founding Fathers, and rid our country of an administration that believes that it is there to control the people not serve them. To rid our country of an administration that deserts our citizens so that they are left to die a horrific death while they nap. To rid our country of an administration that makes false heinous charges against reporters to spy on them and their families. To rid our country of an administration that uses the IRS to target political enemies.


    :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I'd be willing to contribute to a going away party. I'll bring the champagne.

Except then the VI. At a graduation ceremony when giving his speech and sitting beside the Gov of Conn. he said my friend, Martin O'Malley, the Governor of Conn. Must think on that again.



momeee said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: too bad he doesn't have enough shame to pack his bags and leave...but there is too much self-adoration in that man.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> I'd be willing to contribute to a going away party. I'll bring the champagne.
> 
> Except then the VI. At a graduation ceremony when giving his speech and sitting beside the Gov of Conn. he said my friend, Martin O'Malley, the Governor of Conn. Must think on that again.


Good grief, O'Malley is destroying Maryland, guess CT is next


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

How do we evaluate if this is true or just Theatrics?

Could be a baseless accusation? Who's to know?



BrattyPatty said:


> Peacegodddess and I received a PM from a member of KP and also Ravelry. I have never heard of this person until this PM came. It seems a woman was ranting over my mention of Japan and China, that she had been there and
> that we were idiots and had no idea what we were talking about, especially when it came to the military. She said that she could teach us a thing or two. and rant, rant, rant....
> The same day this new "wonderful loving person" joins the site and starts in.
> You can't tell me that you guys didn't bring her in to start another war here on KP. Her mentions of travelling to China gave her away and her supposed knowledge of everything military.
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

It is easy not to respond. Feels great not getting pulled into the negativity.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks Momeee. Excellent.



soloweygirl said:


> The country needs more people like Judge Pirro. The MSM could learn, no make that re-learn, what a reporter should be doing. Their focus should be on keeping the government honest.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> How do we evaluate if this is true or just Theatrics?
> 
> Could be a baseless accusation? Who's to know?


Go over to Ravelry and read it. You can find in the forums under Denim and Pearls, written by TuesFlight11.
The lady who sent me the PM in the beginning resent it to me today at my request.
Are you calling me a liar?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For those of you who protested the war in Vietnam. I had just graduated from college, and Had thought of enlisting in the Navy. I knew I would not be on the front line, but others are needed in many places other than the front line.
> 
> I cannot watch any movies about Vietnam since a neighbor was killed there, and many of my High School classmates had served there.


Me either. Rough time . Three of my classmates from hs got killed there and our pastors daughter's boy friend. You didn't have a choice with the draft back then. Well I guess you did if you wanted to go live in Canada. :roll:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Now why did you need to say "Birdbrain" ? Did that make you feel wonderful about yourself. Or is it a result of your insecurities?? What is it that makes one denigrate another for no apparent reason?? It's been quite a while since any of us have been pre-pubescent.



BrattyPatty said:


> This is not a court of law, birdbrain. The post was copied from Ravelry and sent in a PM. I deleted it, but I am sure peacegoddess has hers.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

What difference does it make?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Now why did you need to say "Birdbrain" ? Did that make you feel wonderful about yourself. Or is it a result of your insecurities?? What is it that makes one denigrate another for no apparent reason?? It's been quite a while since any of us have been pre-pubescence.


Nope. it was the nicest thing I could think of at the time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

RUknitting,

This person must lead a very abusive life. It is so scary and sad. She/he doesn't even know the difference.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And the time of campaigning limited so that people with real jobs have a chance of running for high office. Not just the ones in other offices whose salary we pay as they flit around the country spewing their self-agrandising lies.



momeee said:


> I agree...one has to be very wealthy or able to attract big 'money supporters' in order to have any level of success...and how is that done? By prostituting oneself to the donors, backers, or buyers, right? The person who holds the purse strings calls the dance tune. Who was the last person of average means to hold high office?
> So many on KP have been disdainful, hateful, distrusting of financially successful candidates...How do they think anyone gets elected? Look at the money trail. Good reason to limit contributions to candidates...it certainly doesn't keep them honest. We have no idea about the real money candidates collect, and how it is used and hidden - for personal enrichment.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> If you think the people on here are "ultra-rightists," you've missed something.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> RUknitting,
> 
> This person must lead a very abusive life. It is so scary and sad. She/he doesn't even know the difference.


Actually, I have never been abused in my life. My life is a full and happy one. Sorry you can't claim the same.
Remember what they say about assuming, LL. It makes an ass out of you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What difference does it make?


Ive been told that some on the rubberneckers on Ravelry have made fun of me and yarnie on there about our spiritual talk. But who cares???? I dont care . Seems like alot of talk about all of us. Why go to another site? Can hear it straight from the horses mouth.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The lobbyists are the ones who determine election results, don't they?



damemary said:


> Remember when John McCain tried election reform? Lead balloon.
> 
> The other thing about the money....30 second ads telling nothing and costing millions .... we need substance about the candidate....who area only beholden to us, not ghostly lobbyists.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What difference does it make?


If you are referring to my post, it proves my point that Cherf is back, lied about who she is, and insulted myself and peacegoddess the very same day she rejoined KP.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Would be ideal but could never happen as you are describing a Utopia which doesn't exist. Also goes against the human psyche.

So Sorry.



momeee said:


> I absolutely agree. In my fantasy world I'd like an 'objective, fact -finding' organization whose job would be to review and evaluate the daily 'news', happenings, etc., and publish both sides of argument - UNBIASED (if possible) allowing fairer reporting, discussion,etc.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If you are referring to my post, it proves my point that Cherf is back, lied about who she is, and insulted myself and peacegoddess the very same day she rejoined KP.


You should know by now you can't take anything personal . I don't know about Cherf. But if Cheeky lillyk and Ingried are back what difference does it make if Cherf is back?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

How about taking a test on major issues before being permitted to vote???



bonbf3 said:


> good idea and I agree - also no tv except debates with IMPARTIAL moderators, preferably high school debate coaches.
> 
> If you want to know about the candidates, watch the debates, read their essays in the paper and magazines.
> 
> ...


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> You can't be serious! This has facts from personal experience, and the diatribe is mild compared to Cheeky Blight's small sub-group.
> 
> When you ignore them, that means you will pick another one of us to abuse. And if we all leave, you'll turn on each other. It doesn't sound too promising.


I agree with Bonnie. Why are people going to other sites and copying posts - why make an issue of membership on other sites - why start personal attacks on someone who just started posting on this thread

It seems some people want to make an issue about personalities rather than topics or issues.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Gov photo ID passport, birth certificate if for Prez and other photo ID for other offices.



momeee said:


> And good background vetting, before being given the nomination.
> Plus valid voter ID needed, picture, ? fingerprints... :-D


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Seems benign to me.


bonbf3 said:


> You can't be serious! This has facts from personal experience, and the diatribe is mild compared to Cheeky Blight's small sub-group.
> 
> When you ignore them, that means you will pick another one of us to abuse. And if we all leave, you'll turn on each other. It doesn't sound too promising.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I agree with Bonnie. Why are people going to other sites and copying posts - why make an issue of membership on other sites - why start personal attacks on someone who just started posting on this thread
> 
> It seems some people want to make an issue about personalities rather than topics or issues.


Tthe post was not copied from another site. It was sent in a PM to me from someone who belongs to Ravelry and KP. The Pm was posted.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Paranoia......



BrattyPatty said:


> Take it any way you want to, Bonnie. It's a bonified troll.
> The "demons" on the left are on to her. Such a warm and loving person she is. NOT She came here to breed contempt just like Satan would.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We should learn from our neighbor to the north. Thumbs up for Canada!!!



west coast kitty said:


> Canada changed political contribution laws several years ago; only individual contributions allowed ($1200 per year max). Initially, political parties were also paid $2 per vote cast in an election from taxes, but that is being phased out. This means that a party / candidate has to have broad based individual support to get funding


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> I can't find anything like this in my Bible, King James version. IMHO not very uplifting in your version, but it does give me an idea of why we have different opinions.
> 
> Isn't it time for your cookies?


No but it is time for your nap.

Must not have look very hard. It in my Complete Jewish Bible, Translated By David H. Stern from HEBREW IN TO ENGLISH. 
Just in case you don't understand :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nope. it was the nicest thing I could think of at the time.


that show a post was made on ravelry, it doesn`t say anything about knitpresent


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> Nicely said. Valid loyal American sentiments. I agree.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Tthe post was not copied from another site. It was sent in a PM to me from someone who belongs to Ravelry and KP. The Pm was posted.


Sounds like a trouble maker to me. :thumbdown: Oh I know could be the CIA or FBI :roll:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes he is. Businesses going to Va. And he proposed a rain tax after raising our gasoline taxes. There's no end to his creativity when it comes to looking for our $$$. He thinks he's the next President but Pretty Boy has lost "the look" as he's aged.



off2knit said:


> Good grief, O'Malley is destroying Maryland, guess CT is next


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Done any stoning lately?


yup yesterday, picking them out of garden and throwing then over into a pile so i could pick then up and throw then into an other pile till i could throw them in to the pile they belonged in.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

So that's your idea of "nice"? Perhaps a vocabulary class is in order. I think you can do better.



BrattyPatty said:


> Nope. it was the nicest thing I could think of at the time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> that show a post was made on ravelry, it doesn`t say anything about knitpresent


Knitpresent and Tuesflight11 are the same person who used to post here under the name of Cherf.
I am done explaining this. No offense to you wckitty.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> So that's your idea of "nice"? Perhaps a vocabulary class is in order. I think you can do better.


I think you can do better by minding your own business.
Off2knit can speak for herself.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> theyarnlady omitted the chapter, but it is in the NKJV and KJV
> 
> Joel 3:9-11
> 
> ...


I did, gee I thought iI put 9-11. oh well I did try.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ive been told that some on the rubberneckers on Ravelry have made fun of me and yarnie on there about our spiritual talk. But who cares???? I dont care . Seems like alot of talk about all of us. Why go to another site? Can hear it straight from the horses mouth.


CB - I`ve always thought you and Yarnie set a wonderful example, if people are following you to other sites, you have obviously made an impact on them. I think sometimes people make fun of others when they are jealous or lost. Hopefully, these people will eventually realize they can have the same spirituality for themselves


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

There you go again. Is that another one of your "nice" words? Shame, shame, shame.



BrattyPatty said:


> Actually, I have never been abused in my life. My life is a full and happy one. Sorry you can't claim the same.
> Remember what they say about assuming, LL. It makes an ass out of you.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The personal insults are of no value. I'd much rather see a discussion of issues especially with so much going on today.



west coast kitty said:


> I agree with Bonnie. Why are people going to other sites and copying posts - why make an issue of membership on other sites - why start personal attacks on someone who just started posting on this thread
> 
> It seems some people want to make an issue about personalities rather than topics or issues.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> CB - I`ve always thought you and Yarnie set a wonderful example, if people are following you to other sites, you have obviously made an impact on them. I think sometimes people make fun of others when they are jealous or lost. Hopefully, these people will eventually realize they can have the same spirituality for themselves


Thanks Kitty . I just heard that but couldn't find the site so just as well. I know where I am with the Lord so it doesn't bother me what anyone says. That is what I try to do is share Him with everyone. If they don't like it they are the ones losing out and their choice.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Tthe post was not copied from another site. It was sent in a PM to me from someone who belongs to Ravelry and KP. The Pm was posted.


you said it came from ravelry, so someone copied it from there (I didn`t say you copied it).


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Is that another "nice"?

Off2knit does speak for herself.

You seem to want to bring this thread down with your "niceties"



BrattyPatty said:


> I think you can do better by minding your own business.
> Off2knit can speak for herself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If you are referring to my post, it proves my point that Cherf is back, lied about who she is, and insulted myself and peacegoddess the very same day she rejoined KP.


Love the new look, Patty!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> If you are referring to my post, it proves my point that Cherf is back, lied about who she is, and insulted myself and peacegoddess the very same day she rejoined KP.


Love the new look, Patty!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Yes he is. Businesses going to Va. And he proposed a rain tax after raising our gasoline taxes. There's no end to his creativity when it comes to looking for our $$$. He thinks he's the next President but Pretty Boy has lost "the look" as he's aged.


I hope you`re kidding about the rain tax! That`s as bad as the environmentalists here who wanted a `methane head tax`on cattle - as if farmers don`t have enough to deal with


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?


Well lets see my gosh what can I say, gee oh what the heck. Why would he he proved he loved his country , by what he did for this nation. Gee by gosh oh golly .

Seem back then no one wore a flag pin. wonder who started the flag pin wearing Have to check this out.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Is that another "nice"?
> 
> Off2knit does speak for herself.
> 
> You seem to want to bring this thread down with your "niceties"


You can't seem to mind your own business, which can bring the thread down also with your niceties. Find someone else to nit pick, will you?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> By the way Ingried says hello and she will be looking forward to seeing all of you again.


Oh the old Ingreid joke. Guess whaat don't care what or who or why the Ingreid is or was.

Getting old can you at least come up with new name. :shock:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I hope you`re kidding about the rain tax! That`s as bad as the environmentalists here who wanted a `methane head tax`on cattle - as if farmers don`t have enough to deal with


http://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/environment/policies/article_336b6f73-8b40-53a8-a8bf-90a9ea5c0af8.html


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?


Wearing flag pins was a response to 9/11 - after Reagan's presidency.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Well lets see my gosh what can I say, gee oh what the heck. Why would he he proved he loved his country , by what he did for this nation.


Yes, snoozing through most of his briefings was indeed a gift to the nation--too bad Quigley and the missus didn't do the same.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Excuse me. I hadn't thought about that. But GW and I are friends so I thought she was talking to me. My mistake.


Actually - I was. I PM'd you. Sorry Cheeky - it wasn't you this time!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, snoozing through most of his briefings was indeed a gift to the nation--too bad Quigley and the missus didn't do the same.


At least he showed up and knew what he was speaking about.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> LukeLucy has learned from experience. It's a good idea to take her advice! You can read without responding, but it takes a lot of will power.
> 
> Of course, you are good at responding!


Look at that hydrangea!!! I was shopping for plants yesterday and I so wanted to buy some but I would have to create a new planting area. I think I will wait until next year. Too much work to do now.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Now Now Leftie

Make up your minds

Knitpresentgift

first it a she then its a he, then its a cherf, want to bet I know oh I really know now as you are always mention her name and she says hi.

It's INGREID she has decide she is a righty after all.

yea Ingreid way to go.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/environment/policies/article_336b6f73-8b40-53a8-a8bf-90a9ea5c0af8.html


What next . The methane tax on cows did not get passed, but this province does have a carbon policy that is adding to the financial hardship of schools, hospitals and municipalities. They have been forced to pay millions of dollars to purchase carbon credits. Then some of the same people bemoan the lack of funding for schools and hospitals


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Ronald Reagan, the epitome of conservative republicans, DID NOT wear a flag pin. How do you feel about that?[/quote
> ...


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I find it astonishing to remember that Ike was a Republican! He accomplished some very good things for this country.


And while having an affair with his aide. Remember that story?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm laughing out loud. You are a grandiose little man.


I would have left out the "grandiose" part personally.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Well lets see my gosh what can I say, gee oh what the heck. Why would he he proved he loved his country , by what he did for this nation. Gee by gosh oh golly .
> 
> Seem back then no one wore a flag pin. wonder who started the flag pin wearing Have to check this out.


You make it sound like Obama is un American, golly gee whiz, Reagan didn't have to prove how American he was. Double standard, ya think?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Actually - I was. I PM'd you. Sorry Cheeky - it wasn't you this time!!


  Thanks! XXX


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> sjr, probably not, unfortunately. They probably raised angry and foul mouthed children, who would be proud of them. I mean, the apple does not fall far from the tree


If someone posted this about you, how would you feel and react? To me, this is an inflammatory and personal post. If you want to discuss a subject, then comments like this have no place here. I don't mean to single you out - but I happened upon this post and it is a good example. That said, some on the left do the same.

Carry on!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Still not trying to change your mind but you were the one who said you did not believe God would proclaim war. I wanted to show you that he had.


I like that you acknowledged that you not trying to change her mind but letting her know that you were merely providing information. I found your post enlightening.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I have tried to answer in a kind way today like Bon does. Sure it won't last but tried Bon.


It will - give it a change and time.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And you my dear don't know the difference between their and there.


Oh, I'm crushed to the very marrow of my bones. NOT! :-D


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> I haven't seen Janeway for quite awhile.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> If someone posted this about you, how would you feel and react? To me, this is an inflammatory and personal post. If you want to discuss a subject, then comments like this have no place here. I don't mean to single you out - but I happened upon this post and it is a good example. That said, some on the left do the same.
> 
> Carry on!


Sorry don't understand your post, as I was just agreeing with another poster about and what would family members thought if they read some of the posts.

That comment was directed at my original post, commenting on a post before that. Why she used my name in writing was her choice.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go over to Ravelry and read it. You can find in the forums under Denim and Pearls, written by TuesFlight11.
> The lady who sent me the PM in the beginning resent it to me today at my request.
> Are you calling me a liar?


I had refrained from copying from someone's blog, because I liked her poem, but I didn't because I thought that was against the rules. So I am very concerned that you are not following the posted rules:

Do not post "affiliate" links of any kind.

Do not post  or other content of others without their permission.

if you notice that your rights are being violated by a user of this forum, please feel free to contact the administration by sending me a private message. We'll investigate all claims and take action if necessary.

Tuesflight11's rights were violated by quoting her post.

I do not have the time to get involved with Ravelry. I only go for a pattern search a few times a year, mainly because I love the pattern so much that I buy the book, and that gets expensive. But this reminds me of the IRS lurking into unsuspecting people's lives without their knowledge.

I know you claim you know who she is, and I truly do not care. I don't care if kpg is a guy. I don't care if she has also been to China. If I said I went for a week in Holland, and some other person on Ravelry also went there sometime in his or her life, does that mean we are the same person? Some of you need to get your own lives and stop infringing on other people's lives. That is stalking, which I also think is a violation.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

momeee said:


> Some cultures are so hate filled, single-minded in their desire to conquer, destroy, etc. that they cannot be bribed, paid off, negotiated with pacified...Is it a male psyche that wants war? Where does one draw the line? Did any administration get it right?


One thing I learned in talking with those returning from Afghanistan is that this country, as others, are tribal. I'm saying this in a simplistic manner because I don't know the names of the tribes, etc., but they have been warring for years to take over land and resources. And they will continue to do so even after we leave which is why we are trying to establish some democracy over there. But it's a difficult thing to do. In WWII, I feel we had a purpose - this action, I'm not so sure.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Another way to look at that is the indoctrination is NOT working.


English, math, geography, et.al., are indoctrination? Then we definitely need to quit teaching those subjects.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> So people who read are indoctrinated?


I knew math was some sort of indoctrination!! Throw it out of the schools - we don't need math!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country B, nots onlyis does theys notlike ours religions, They loves my punch u a shun. Theys loves my ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,'s and theys loves my spillings

I likes thems to as they like me en off tos talks about mes.
They's my fre nd . At less thats whaat s per sin tell ef mes.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Peacegodddess and I received a PM from a member of KP and also Ravelry. I have never heard of this person until this PM came. It seems a woman was ranting over my mention of Japan and China, that she had been there and
> that we were idiots and had no idea what we were talking about, especially when it came to the military. She said that she could teach us a thing or two. and rant, rant, rant....
> The same day this new "wonderful loving person" joins the site and starts in.
> You can't tell me that you guys didn't bring her in to start another war here on KP. Her mentions of travelling to China gave her away and her supposed knowledge of everything military.
> ...


She had an agenda from the very beginning.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Personally I think there is a lot of lies being spewed over the last two pages. Speaking about an alleged PM, from an anonymous person, about an alleged post. How can any of this be taken seriously without proof?


Because someone copied the post.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Absolutely
> 
> Why would I believe someone that resorts to name calling every time she doesn't like a response?
> 
> Well some of you want to go down fighting, good, we have almost won.


What's the score? Just curious how we are keeping tabs.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why don't you start a new party? You know you would have 10 votes for sure just like the Green party.


No----we can't even deal the parties we have now!!! Unless it's a party of gardeners!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

momeee said:


> I agree...one has to be very wealthy or able to attract big 'money supporters' in order to have any level of success...and how is that done? By prostituting oneself to the donors, backers, or buyers, right? The person who holds the purse strings calls the dance tune. Who was the last person of average means to hold high office?
> So many on KP have been disdainful, hateful, distrusting of financially successful candidates...How do they think anyone gets elected? Look at the money trail. Good reason to limit contributions to candidates...it certainly doesn't keep them honest. We have no idea about the real money candidates collect, and how it is used and hidden - for personal enrichment.


One of the bills in Texas that was just defeated was proposing more transparency of the contributions to candidates. You are correct about the money they collect.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> We do have more than two parties. Check it out next time you vote. I happen to belong to one of them.


Yes, we have more than 2 parties. However, we only have 2 parties when it comes right down to it. Is ther a part of the House of Representatives reserved of any other parties than the Democrats or Republicans?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

momeee said:


> I absolutely agree. In my fantasy world I'd like an 'objective, fact -finding' organization whose job would be to review and evaluate the daily 'news', happenings, etc., and publish both sides of argument - UNBIASED (if possible) allowing fairer reporting, discussion,etc.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Leave out the personal opinions and drama.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Patty, your new avatar means more to me than I can say.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> The personal insults are of no value. I'd much rather see a discussion of issues especially with so much going on today.


I agree with you, RUKnitting.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Sorry don't understand your post, as I was just agreeing with another poster about and what would family members thought if they read some of the posts.
> 
> That comment was directed at my original post, commenting on a post before that. Why she used my name in writing was her choice.


Oh sorry! I have MEGO today (my eyes glazed over) from catching up on all the posts. Must be wine time.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Wasn't addressing anyone except CB2 and she knew I was leaving for awhile.
> I promise to stick around to make sure the righties don't pollute the Sabbath, but, alas, i'm too late as the pollution has begun.


Andrea - Have to cut them some slack. They are a little slow figuring out what is being said and who it is being said too. Some of them get real feisty over spelling errors so be very careful not to set them off. I wonder why they keep coming back to this thread if they can't stand the horrible repartee we good women on the left engage in. It's kind of like a child banging it's head against a wall over and over again and not knowing where the pain is coming from. So funny, they make me smile.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

To all: Wishing you and your family a fun and safe Memorial Day!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> At last. I started to write something on this yesterday, but I was too full of words and couldn't make anything as succinct as you just managed.


Thank you, Anne. The right has a misconception that Gandhi would be on their side. It's sad how little they know.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I had refrained from copying from someone's blog, because I liked her poem, but I didn't because I thought that was against the rules. So I am very concerned that you are not following the posted rules:
> 
> Do not post "affiliate" links of any kind.
> 
> ...


Off2knit,
Do you really think I care? I have already been in touch with admin. I cannot post a link that someone has to sign up for. I removed the links.
Take your own advice and stop infringing on other people's lives.
Once again this post came to me via KP, not Ravelry. Since this PM was addressed to me and was in my KP inbox, it is my right to post it or not. 
That rule would also apply to anyone using a quote or article for a debate, wouldn't it?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I'll join the party of gardeners. I'm there.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Patty, your new avatar means more to me than I can say.


Me too, SS. He is a great humanitarian. As well as a gifted singer/songwriter.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> So that's your idea of "nice"? Perhaps a vocabulary class is in order. I think you can do better.


Oh please! Ass is a biblical term. But maybe your dirty mind misconstrued it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was from Run from Satan on the Other Side by someone named Gratitude
> Here it is:
> Someone please tell PeaceMonster and the Brat to shut their traps about health care in Japan. The two idiots no NOTHING about health care in Japan nor of how the Japanese think of Americans. In fact, tell them to shut their traps on every subject, most of which, they know NOTHING about!
> 
> ...


Thanks, Patty. It will be interesting to see how the good Christians on the right, defend this person. Sounds like the devil incarnate. I'm glad who ever it is is on their side. I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with such an angry beast. Positively, disgusting behavior by anyone's standards.


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