# Anyone know why they call them "jumpers"?



## rabuckler (Mar 19, 2011)

Anyone know why the Brits call sweaters "jumpers"?


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## Sallyflymi (Mar 12, 2011)

No, but i am watching this one. Will be interesting to find out.


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## PurpleFi (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi I'm English and I have absolutely no idea why we call sweaters jumpers. I even looked on Wikapedia and couldn't get much there. Come on someone must know the answer. What do you get if you cross a sheep with a kangaroo - a woolly jumper - groan. I too will watch this space.


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi purple V oh dear me your joke.....!!!!! Be like me and stick to knitting hahahahaha


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Us Brits have some stupid words for things I've got to agree. What the heck jumper means has stumped me! Perhaps years ago we got wool from a kangaroo? Well maybe not....have a good day.


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## Grandma Laurie (Feb 2, 2011)

Hum... I'm watching for the answer too.


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## PurpleFi (Mar 26, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> Hi purple V oh dear me your joke.....!!!!! Be like me and stick to knitting hahahahaha


Well if you think that's bad - I could tell a few more, but I'll take your advice and stick to knitting!!! :roll: Happy 1st of May. PurpleV


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## shirley m (Apr 25, 2011)

! We Aussies follow the Brits and use the jumpers and cardi's. But we don't call them a guernsey! Have to say the twin- sets are pretty good, and are coming back into fashion .Shirley.


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## xomix (Apr 10, 2011)

Anyone know why the Yanks call jumpers "sweaters"?


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## shanni (Apr 18, 2011)

We call them jumpers down under also. Wonder if its because of the way sheep jump around after they have been shorn?


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## shirley m (Apr 25, 2011)

Please tell!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shirley.


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## nannaknits (Mar 30, 2011)

1853, apparently from 17c. jump "short coat," also "woman's under bodice," of uncertain origin, perhaps from Fr. jupe "skirt" (see jupe). Meaning "sleeveless dress worn over a blouse" first recorded Amer.Eng. 1939.
ENGLISH - of course AS ARE MOST OF OUR TERMS here in Oz.. from our Convict ancestors !!


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## Maggs (Apr 8, 2011)

Well .. I just "Googled" jumpers and sweaters, and came up with this from

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jumpers.

They gave the best results, although I went to other places like Britannica (before rejecting their offer for a free trial)!

1. A sleeveless dress worn over a blouse or sweater.
2. A loose, protective garment worn over other clothes.
3. A child's garment consisting of straight-legged pants attached to a biblike bodice. Often used in the plural.
4. Chiefly British A pullover sweater.

Probably from jump: short coat

Then I looked for "sweater"

1. A jacket or pullover made especially of knit, crocheted, or woven wool, cotton, or synthetic yarn.

And THEN I looked for "origin of word 'sweater' "

"Did you know that before they were sweaters they were ganseys, pullovers, jumpers and jerseys? The term sweater became part of our language after this clothing item became part of athletes wear. Working out in wool was bound to bring in a new word in our vocabulary having something to do with sweating " that comes from http://blogs.msdn.com/b/irenak/archive/2007/03/12/the-origin-of-word-sweater.aspx

And that took some finding!! So aren't we even clever to ask!!

I didn't really know that the English used "jumper" for sweater .. I thought it was an Aussie thing. But having a US son-in-law I certainly knew to use "sweater" there!!


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## nannaknits (Mar 30, 2011)

The British usage also describes a sweater or pullover, that is, a knitted garment with long sleeves for the upper part of the body, though my impression is that pullover is rather old-fashioned, with sweater now much more common. Jumper seems to have appeared about the middle of the nineteenth century, originally for what the Oxford English Dictionary describes as A kind of loose outer jacket or shirt reaching to the hips, in other words what I would call a fishermans smock. The origin has nothing to do with the verb to jump, but comes from the dialect jump or jup, meaning a mans short coat or a womans under-bodice or tunic. This may derive in turn from the French juppe, a petticoat (now in modern French, jupe, skirt), which ultimately derived from the Arabic jubba, a loose outer garment.

The word has evolved differently in Britain and the US; British usage has moved towards a garment that is specifically woollen, the US towards any upper-body garment for women. The OED refers to a catalogue of 1908 which talks about a loose-fitting blouse worn over a skirt, from which Americans later derived jumper suit for a jumper and skirt combination; Ive found a plate in a Sears, Roebuck catalogue of 1916 that uses jumper frock to describe a pinafore dress worn over a blouse or shirt, which seems to be the original term, later shortened to jumper.


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## clippedwings (Feb 12, 2011)

Wow. Ya'll have covered all the words I know to describe a sweater. One thing, I think a pull over does just that...pulls over your head-a sweater usually buttons up. You are all so dedicated and interesting. I learned a lot with this discussion.


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## Maggs (Apr 8, 2011)

That's great Jo .. thanks


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## nannaknits (Mar 30, 2011)

hmm have ALWAYS thought - after living in the USA - a sweater was long sleeved same as sweatshirt- just different weight fabric >so pulls over head same as pullover..( Havent heard the term PULLOVER for such a long time now..) I have my USA football heavy weight sweaters.. and always have called anything "WOOLLEN or Yarn" a jumper.. and fabric a sweater?? And then there's the goood old Cardi's!


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

The word 'jumper' is derived from the Arabic 'jubba' or loose-fitting garment. Since English is the most acquisitive language there is, we probably collected it around the time of the crusades, that would tie in with the French words for skirt and petticoat.

Dave


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## newsable (Jan 18, 2011)

xomix said:


> Anyone know why the Yanks call jumpers "sweaters"?


Because they can make us sweat? LOL


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## fay000 (Mar 20, 2011)

Naaa it's us Ozzies, Kangaroos = Woolly Jumper. lol

Only Joking I have no real idea.


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

newsable said:


> xomix said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know why the Yanks call jumpers "sweaters"?
> ...


Sweaters made from cotton particularly are sportswear, or sportswear-derived. They are supposed soak up the sweat and transfer it away from the skin with the wick-effect, hence the cricket sweater. Although cricket sweaters are unusual because they have a V-neck, whereas most sweaters have a round crew-neck or slash boat-neck.

"One day we shall all wear sportswear as daywear"

Sir Edwin Hardy Amies
The Queen's dress designer from 1955


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## newsable (Jan 18, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> newsable said:
> 
> 
> > xomix said:
> ...


My guess was right on, wasn't it? Interesting...to me a logical assumption.


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## Jamie (Mar 10, 2011)

In my lexicon (just to confuse things more) sweaters break down into pull-overs (pulled over the head) and cardigans (button down the front).


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

I get very confused in shops because American for 'waistcoat' is 'vest', I keep thinking the assistant is trying to sell me underwear. One New York shop I was asked what my native language is, because it isn't English! 

Dave


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## Jeannie6 (Apr 7, 2011)

Why do we Americans call a sweater a sweater. Is it supposed to make one sweat??


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## newsable (Jan 18, 2011)

Jeannie6 said:


> Why do we Americans call a sweater a sweater. Is it supposed to make one sweat??


The reply to your question was addressed earlier in the thread. ;-)


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## Granny Annie (Apr 1, 2011)

In the UK a garment that buttons-up is usually called a cardigan. Thought I would add to the confusion!!


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Granny Annie said:


> In the UK a garment that buttons-up is usually called a cardigan. Thought I would add to the confusion!!


Named after the 7th Earl of Cardigan, no less! Nowadays they can have zip fastenings or even velcro.

To further muddy the water, ones with zips are sometimes called 'knitted jerkins' because they are derived from the woollen removable linings of First World War leather jerkins.

Dave


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## Maggs (Apr 8, 2011)

And we Aussies certainly love our cardigans .. "cardis".

My Seattle daughter and her USA husband also call them cardis! All the US patterns that I can see for the buttoned-up sweaters are called cardigans as well.

But I'm sure they originated in England?

.. 1868, from James Thomas Brudenell (1797-1868), 7th Earl of Cardigan, English general distinguished in the Crimean War, who set the style, in one account supposedly wearing such a jacket while leading the Charge of the Light Brigade at Balaclava (1854). The place name is an anglicization of Welsh Ceredigion , lit. "Ceredig's land." Ceredic lived 5c. (from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cardigan)

I think we now have them all covered, don't we??


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## Koalatd57 (Mar 3, 2011)

Actually in the 1800's the vest was called a waistcoat in America.
I do Gold Rush era 1848 to 1870's and have learned the terms for the clothing in that era. 

Carolyn in California


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Koalatd57 said:


> Actually in the 1800's the vest was called a waistcoat in America.
> I do Gold Rush era 1848 to 1870's and have learned the terms for the clothing in that era.
> 
> Carolyn in California


That's interesting, I wonder when and why it changed? I'm afraid my American Social and Cultural History isn't as strong as it should be, maybe you or somebody can enlighten me.

Dave


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## Valandra (Mar 23, 2011)

Brillant input ladies and Sir, certainly added to our body of knowledge.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## hildy3 (Jan 29, 2011)

Okay, folks, here's your laugh for the day...not mine..someone sent it in a month or so ago.

Woman speeding down highway ignoring a cop's siren..He pulled up beside her and was shocked to see she was knitting! He screamed.."PULL OVER!! She yelled back.."NO..SCARF!" So you see it isn't even a pullover, it's a scarf. Not my joke, but I love it!!! Hope you do.


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Girls,girls,girls...I really am becoming educated for the first time in my life. How educational is this forum eh? I'm so proud to know you all.....susan x


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

hahahahaha1 :shock:


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

hahahahahahahaha :thumbup:


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

nannaknits said:


> hmm have ALWAYS thought - after living in the USA - a sweater was long sleeved same as sweatshirt- just different weight fabric >so pulls over head same as pullover..( Havent heard the term PULLOVER for such a long time now..) I have my USA football heavy weight sweaters.. and always have called anything "WOOLLEN or Yarn" a jumper.. and fabric a sweater?? And then there's the goood old Cardi's!


We still use the term _pullover_ in England, usually to refer to a sleeveless V-neck jumper. When it has a U-shaped neck opening with straight sides going up to the shoulder, we call it a _tank top_. They were very popular in the 1970s for both men and women.

Men's sleeveless V-neck pullovers fell out of favour for a while, being associated with nerds. But some designers showed them in London Fashion Week in bright colours they're back in the shops for Summer.

Dave


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## PauletteB (Mar 10, 2011)

This has truly been a history lesson on jumpers vs sweaters. Good information keep it comming.


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi Dave. I was a young mammy in the 70's and I can remember the "tank tops" especially with the "hot pants". I knit my son and myself lots of tops. My hubby, however, wouldn't wear one. We also wore the "Flares" can you remember those? The wider at the bottom, the better and trendier they were. Oh and yes, the mini's and the maxi coats with fur round the bottom.The tartan kilts and the white knee length boots. Oh happy days......NOT. we were hard up hahahaha.Never had 2 brass farthings to rub together, but we managed. I'm getting off this now because I'm showing my age hahahaha :roll:


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> Hi Dave. I was a young mammy in the 70's and I can remember the "tank tops" especially with the "hot pants". I knit my son and myself lots of tops. My hubby, however, wouldn't wear one. We also wore the "Flares" can you remember those? The wider at the bottom, the better and trendier they were. Oh and yes, the mini's and the maxi coats with fur round the bottom.The tartan kilts and the white knee length boots. Oh happy days......NOT. we were hard up hahahaha.Never had 2 brass farthings to rub together, but we managed. I'm getting off this now because I'm showing my age hahahaha :roll:


Five button high waisted _French_ flares with 36" bottoms over platform shoes? Nah! Can't remember them at all!

Dave


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

ooooooooooohhhhhhhh my feet hurt in those shoes......hahahaha


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> ooooooooooohhhhhhhh my feet hurt in those shoes......hahahaha


The men's versions were heavy and chunky and very dangerous on the highly polished open-tread wood staircases at my school. There were many boys with twisted ankles, they ended up limiting them to 2" soles and 4" heels in the uniform regulations and trousers were limited to 36" bottoms!

Dave


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

PurpleV said:


> Hi I'm English and I have absolutely no idea why we call sweaters jumpers. I even looked on Wikapedia and couldn't get much there. Come on someone must know the answer. What do you get if you cross a sheep with a kangaroo - a woolly jumper - groan. I too will watch this space.


hahahaha! Love your joke, but, guess that's why we are knitters & not comedians. lolol


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## grosvenor (Mar 19, 2011)

Jersey is one of the islands in theEnglish Channel; another is Guernsey.
Both these names are given to (usually) knitted woollen upper garments, the latter often for heavier working men's (seamen's) garments


Grosvenor


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

You might know what I've got in my stash !!!!! that's right I've got some Guernsey wool. Yes it's a fisherman's Jumper. 5ply and knit on thin needles to make the stitiches close together to keep in the warmth. I tell you something tho'. I'm having quite a job finding a pattern I like.


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## Linda T. (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm a Brit. My mother, the knitter, called long sleeved or short sleeved 'woolies', jumpers, the sleeveless kind, usually only worn by men, was a pullover and she usually made my dad's in fair isle. (I wonder if he liked them, as he said, or said it to make her happy)
What Americans call a jumper, was our school uniform, navy blue over white shirts, and we called them tunics. What you call a tunic, we call a tabbard.............. I could go on. 
Vest, waistcoat. (wife beater) singlet, vest. There's so much more, in fact my American daughter and I say we are bi ligual!


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

grosvenor said:


> Jersey is one of the islands in theEnglish Channel; another is Guernsey.
> Both these names are given to (usually) knitted woollen upper garments, the latter often for heavier working men's (seamen's) garments
> 
> Grosvenor


Fine Jersey-knit was what Coco Chanel used for her original _little black dress_ when it was usually reserved for woollen underwear.

Dave


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## Alexia (Feb 28, 2011)

Grandma Susan, you gave my laugh for the day. I'm British too, and never thought of taking wool from kangaroo. 

And Jo Brown. You are right in your explanation. Though in my years in England we used to call any knitting item a cardigan. I lived in the north of London, and my family stil lived there. I have to call my sister about this one.

Happy Sunday to all on this forum. I enjoyed all your coments about jumpers.

Blessings from Long Island, New York


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## k9trainer (Mar 11, 2011)

To me, Jersy and Guernsey are milk cows and very pretty ones at that. In the 70s, I wanted a pair of baby blue bluejeans and the wide bell bottoms as we called them saved my life when I disturbed a ground nest of hornets. I don't know how many were trying to sting me through the bell part of my legs, my Dad told me to freeze and went and got some spray to kill them. I did not get stung at all, I loved those pink wide bell bottoms. Boy that brings back memories.

Jean


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## Lassie (Jan 26, 2011)

Wow! I'm not alone! I've been wondering about that for years. Not so much why Brits (and the Irish, Aussies, etc) say jumper when we say sweater as much as why people who speak the same language can't settle on the same word for the same object! But, as my Granddad used to say, "That's what makes horse races". But here's another term I've been wondering about. What is "jumper weight wool"? If a jumper is a sweater, then it seems to me anything from DK to bulky could be used. I've seen sweaters knitted up in all three weights. Will anything that gives the correct gauge do, or is there something about "jumper weight" wool that differs? Lighter weight, maybe?


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## rabuckler (Mar 19, 2011)

funny. lol (to why do Yanks call them sweaters?) and I like the joke too. I love this forum!


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Lassie said:


> Wow! I'm not alone! I've been wondering about that for years. Not so much why Brits (and the Irish, Aussies, etc) say jumper when we say sweater as much as why people who speak the same language can't settle on the same word for the same object! But, as my Granddad used to say, "That's what makes horse races". But here's another term I've been wondering about. What is "jumper weight wool"? If a jumper is a sweater, then it seems to me anything from DK to bulky could be used. I've seen sweaters knitted up in all three weights. Will anything that gives the correct gauge do, or is there something about "jumper weight" wool that differs? Lighter weight, maybe?


_Jumper weight_ is another can of worms. I've written about it in other discussions. Basically, in the UK it depends on when the pattern was written. Before the 1960s it would have usually meant 4-ply knitted to about 28-30 stitches across 4"/10cms on UK/Canadian size 10 (3.25mm) (US size 3) needles, nowadays it's usually the ubiquitous DK weight yarn at 20-24 stitches on UK/Canadian size 8 (4mm) (US size 6) needles and roughly equivalent to a heavier sportweight American yarn.

Approximately...

Roughly!

Dave


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## PurpleFi (Mar 26, 2011)

nannaknits said:


> The British usage also describes a sweater or pullover, that is, a knitted garment with long sleeves for the upper part of the body, though my impression is that pullover is rather old-fashioned, with sweater now much more common. Jumper seems to have appeared about the middle of the nineteenth century, originally for what the Oxford English Dictionary describes as A kind of loose outer jacket or shirt reaching to the hips, in other words what I would call a fishermans smock. The origin has nothing to do with the verb to jump, but comes from the dialect jump or jup, meaning a mans short coat or a womans under-bodice or tunic. This may derive in turn from the French juppe, a petticoat (now in modern French, jupe, skirt), which ultimately derived from the Arabic jubba, a loose outer garment.
> 
> The word has evolved differently in Britain and the US; British usage has moved towards a garment that is specifically woollen, the US towards any upper-body garment for women. The OED refers to a catalogue of 1908 which talks about a loose-fitting blouse worn over a skirt, from which Americans later derived jumper suit for a jumper and skirt combination; Ive found a plate in a Sears, Roebuck catalogue of 1916 that uses jumper frock to describe a pinafore dress worn over a blouse or shirt, which seems to be the original term, later shortened to jumper.


Well, you certainly got that one sorted. Well done.


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## NogginKnits (Mar 13, 2011)

This is definitely a learning link! I am amazed at the knowledge one can gain from this forum- Thanks!


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

purpleV your humour is so dry hahahahaha :thumbup:


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## PurpleFi (Mar 26, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> purpleV your humour is so dry hahahahaha :thumbup:


Thanks Susan, hope you had a good day. Just been to my daughter for lunch and my grand daughter helped me shorten her brother's school trousers and then we did some knitting - purple of course! Enjoy the bank holiday.


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## Teddy (Mar 13, 2011)

I study etymology (the history of words and where they came from). Please see definition below, which I copied from World Wide Words. I have seen a few other definitions that back this up. Essentially, a word starts in another language, and through differences in dialect and pronunciation, evolves into something completely different. 

"The British usage also describes a sweater or pullover, that is, a knitted garment with long sleeves for the upper part of the body, though my impression is that pullover is rather old-fashioned, with sweater now much more common. Jumper seems to have appeared about the middle of the nineteenth century, originally for what the Oxford English Dictionary describes as A kind of loose outer jacket or shirt reaching to the hips, in other words what I would call a fishermans smock. The origin has nothing to do with the verb to jump, but comes from the dialect jump or jup, meaning a mans short coat or a womans under-bodice or tunic. This may derive in turn from the French juppe, a petticoat (now in modern French, jupe, skirt), which ultimately derived from the Arabic jubba, a loose outer garment.

The word has evolved differently in Britain and the US; British usage has moved towards a garment that is specifically woollen, the US towards any upper-body garment for women. The OED refers to a catalogue of 1908 which talks about a loose-fitting blouse worn over a skirt, from which Americans later derived jumper suit for a jumper and skirt combination; Ive found a plate in a Sears, Roebuck catalogue of 1916 that uses jumper frock to describe a pinafore dress worn over a blouse or shirt, which seems to be the original term, later shortened to jumper."

Hope you enjoy this definition as much as I enjoyed researching your question! I have often wondered, myself.


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

I've just been told my grandsons are on their way here and intend to sleep tonight. Bang goes my peace (wouldn't change it for the world.) I'll let them go on PS3 hahahaha. Then I can watch TV and knit susan x


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

The similarities between the French and English words almost certainly indicates it was nicked from the Arabic by the Plantaganet and Frankish yobs during The Crusades. They brought a lot of words and customs back to North West Europe from their 'adventures'.

Dave


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## PurpleFi (Mar 26, 2011)

grandma susan said:


> I've just been told my grandsons are on their way here and intend to sleep tonight. Bang goes my peace (wouldn't change it for the world.) I'll let them go on PS3 hahahaha. Then I can watch TV and knit susan x


Glad to hear your grandsons are coming over. Enjoy.


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## dixieknits (Apr 12, 2011)

Aw shucks! I thought "jumper" had something to do with riding horses..


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## littlebit (Feb 24, 2011)

I continually learn new things on this forum! I just LOVE it!


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## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

Just to throw a spanner in the works, here in the UK we often refer to a jumper as a 'woolie pullie'!


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## Marilyn (Jan 19, 2011)

For the same reason the Brits call a john a loo or a stroller a pram: just to be different.


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## Teddy (Mar 13, 2011)

Oh, absolutely! Plus, the Arabs gave us knitting!! Glad to have another historical etymologist on board


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## jjane139 (Mar 16, 2011)

About vests as underwear or something else: I grew up in rural Illinois and I don't know whether the vests that my sisters and I wore were standard in that time or place, or whether it was just something my mother thought was proper for children in winter. These vests were made of cloth, not knitted, homemade, I think, sleeveless, and must have pulled over the head. I don't remember having to find someone to button up the back and I know they didn't open in front. They were about waist length. Some of mine had buttons around the hem, as if something were once intended to be buttoned on. Probably all our vests were handed down from some older child. They were all the undershirts we had. Later, when I was in high school, "weskits" were the style. That name must have been a corruption of "waistcoat." I never hear the word any more.


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## knits4charity (Mar 1, 2011)

Purple V....I love your joke! Hee Hee


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

Hi Marilyn. You'd be amazed at some of the words we call a john......Especially in the north of England...tho what this has to do with jumpers I don't know hahaha (don't we digress) :thumbup:


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## Linda T. (Apr 2, 2011)

Jjane. During WWII, clothing was rationed along with most other stuff. We wore what you referred to as vests, but they were called Liberty bodices and had buttons around the bottom to connect to the buttonholes in our knickers (panties) to assure no breezy gap. I hated them as they were not 'princess' pretty and fought constantly not to wear them, as soon as the sun shone. They had what was called the utillity mark, which proved that they were well made and would last through many washings. My mother knitted ALL my winter clothes then, especially matching jumpers and skirts (which she attached to a cotton 'vest' so they didn't fall down with the weight of all the gores. I loved to twirl fast so the the skirts would fly out flat like those of an ice skater. My favourite set was dark green with orange Noah's Ark animals marching across the front, not girl colours, so I liked it more. There were matching knickers and socks too!


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## rabuckler (Mar 19, 2011)

Now we know! Thank you!


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## talltreeknits (Feb 18, 2011)

Jumper makes as much sense as "sweater" to me!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> Fine Jersey-knit was what Coco Chanel used for her original _little black dress_ when it was usually reserved for *woollen underwear*.
> 
> Dave


*Woollen undies!* The bane of my childhood! In winter, my grandmother absolutely _insisted_ I wear not only long (almost to the knees) underpants over my cotton panties, but a garter-belt and woollen stockings! She never accepted that I was somewhat allergic to wool. Those (expletives deleted) particular woollen undergarments drove me itchily crazy every day! It's amazing I managed to learn anything _at all_ in school. If it was that cold outside, why didn't she just let me wear (removable in school) my woollen snow pants under the school uniform?? Winter in New York City is never so cold as to torture a child so!!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

So, what do you call a knitted upper-body garment with Raglan sleeves and buttons up the front? Is it a Raglan? A Cardigan? Raggi-cardi? Cardi-Rag?


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## MegK31 (Feb 4, 2011)

I am from the UK and I have no idea why a sweater is called a jumper. Thats just the way it has always been.


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## MegK31 (Feb 4, 2011)

I believe that a raglan sweater buttoned up the front would be called a cardigan. Any sweaters buttoned up the front are cardigans


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## Lassie (Jan 26, 2011)

Thanks, Dave! That makes sense. The patterns I was looking at are from a booklet printed in 1961 in the UK. Thanks for sorting me out.


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Lassie said:


> Thanks, Dave! That makes sense. The patterns I was looking at are from a booklet printed in 1961 in the UK. Thanks for sorting me out.


Glad I've helped you. I can remember when DK started to take over the shelves in UK shops, many of the older generation were not impressed. I can distinctly recall my grandmother complaining the stitches were too large for fine detail and making derisive comments about young people being too impatient to do anything properly, short-cuts were not permitted where she was concerned.

But then Grandmother was from another generation, she was born in 1890 and had been a lady's companion before and during The Great War. The Edwardian era was one where young ladies had little else to do, except for fine needlework, water-colour sketching and chatter!

Dave


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Teddy said:


> Oh, absolutely! Plus, the Arabs gave us knitting!! Glad to have another historical etymologist on board


I more dabble a bit in art history, it seems to cover most human activity. I wouldn't really call myself much of an expert at anything, just a little general knowledge.

Dave


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## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

rabuckler said:


> Anyone know why the Brits call sweaters "jumpers"?


FOUND THIS INFO ONLINE

The term jumper, when it first appeared in English in the mid-19th century, was applied to the sort of shapeless jacket worn by artists and workmen, what we might call a smock. The extended dress sense of the word dates to the 1930s, and the all-in-one infants jumper garment followed. The use of jumper as a simple synonym for sweater is apparently a fairly recent further extension of the term, and hadnt made it into the OED as of 1989. Jumper is actually derived from the noun jump, a modified form of the French jupe, used to mean a short coat in the 19th century (and completely unrelated to jump meaning leap).


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, it will take further study to find the right answer. However, it seems that it comes from the fishermen mostly to keep them warm in the cold seas. At least that is what I have been reading about it. There was reference to the 1850s as a date but it could go further back. Interesting topic and a lot of great responses. Good luck in finding your answers.


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## Lassie (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, your Gran and mine would have got along just fine! She was born in 1893 and used to tell me and my sisters that she'd knit her first hat before she could read! Her idea of a short cut was using a washing machine instead of doing it by hand! A different time...


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

The big problem with the internet is that it fails to take account of facts. I have a book pulished in 1936 with instructions for several jumpers.

Unfortunately I don't have my OED on Histical Principles beside me. However, my 1935 _New Universal_ defines _jumper_ as:

QUOTE
A flexible pullover garment of silk or wool; a similar garment of canvas, worn by sailors, fishermen, and others.
UNQUOTE

I'm a tad surprised the OED still hadn't heard of them in 1989, but then I seldom look for factual information online.

Dave


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## pansywhite (Mar 20, 2011)

My grandmother told me when I was young (longtime ago) that the word jumper, came about because the sheep were prone to jumping around in the shearing pens and the shearers called them jumpers because of this action. Thus the word jumper reffered to using the wool to spin and knit garment to wear in the cold winters.


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## deirdre ann (Mar 31, 2011)

I've just had a lovely time reading all your replies & comments - fireball dave & granma susan's walk down 70's lane - so cool - I wasn't allowed to wear any of those things 'cos I was too young!! Aahhhh, to be able to say that now......


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## willekeo (Mar 8, 2011)

rabuckler said:


> Anyone know why the Brits call sweaters "jumpers"?


I always wondered about that too. I am Dutch by birth and we call them jumpers too, but pronounced the J as Y as in YOUR. Below a discussion of sweater versus jumper - interesting site:

http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2007/08/jumpers-sweaters-and-like.html

and an answer...

http://www.answers.com/jumper

I love languages so here's one for British slang I often refer to after watching Prime Suspect or Taggert... CAREFUL: SWEAR WORDS!!

http://www.effingpot.com/slang.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_British_and_American_English:_A%E2%80%93L

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_words_having_different_meanings_in_British_and_American_English:_M%E2%80%93Z

http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/engtran.html

I could go on.... sigh


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Lassie said:


> Well, your Gran and mine would have got along just fine! She was born in 1893 and used to tell me and my sisters that she'd knit her first hat before she could read! Her idea of a short cut was using a washing machine instead of doing it by hand! A different time...


Oh Dear, I can well remember when a twin-tub washing machine arrived in the house in 1965, Grandmother's disdain went into overdrive! She had fallen out with her sister in 1942 over a damask tablecloth she had lent for her niece's wedding breakfast. My great aunt had sent it to a 'town laundry' and I was told, repeatedly, "It's never been the same since, those machines knock all the stuffing out of the cloth". Family grudges are wonderfully insane, they never spoke again, it even followed Aunt Phoebe into the grave and was transferred to the daughters with, "Of course, they were never taught how to run a household properly"!

Consequently, I was taught how to wash knitteds properly with soap flakes and how to dry them flat on wire racks. Looking back, I'm surprised the tartar didn't have me grate soap off a block and dissolve it with a whisk!

I learned how to mangle blankets properly too!

Dave


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Wikipedia is my absolute bette noire, the notorious Ronnie Hazlehurst obituary debacle caused by its inherent unreliabiity rings alarm bells every time I see it cited. 

Must be a legacy from my grandmother!

Dave


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## MaryE. (Feb 16, 2011)

nanaknits, I've just got to jump in here (not intended as a bad pun although it sure qualifies) and comment that US jumpers are more often longer than shorter. They usually refer to a garment that is at least knee length (unless it's a mini and then who knows how short that can be?) and longer. Jumpers are usually sleeveless "dresses" worn over a blouse or tee with at least short sleeves, but often long, depending on the weather. A knit garment could easily be a jumper if it were dress-length and worn over a blouse/tee, but it wouldn't be considered one if it was just a "top." That would pretty much be considered a vest if it were sleveless and a pullover if it had sleeves. However, a vest can be a pullover or it can open down the front (usually, but there are exceptions to where the opening is located). That being said, I'm sure there are exceptions that a dozen or more people could give examples of. Isn't language fascinating, particularly when you more or less speak the same one? I'm sure there are regional differences in terms within the US and would certainly like to learn some of them.


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## Billie B (Apr 5, 2011)

Margot mentioned "ganseys" - I learned about that the hard way. A friend talked me into taking a class on how to make Gansey - of Guernsey sweaters. Named for the Isle of Guernsey, which evolved to Gansey. Originally they were knitted with oiled wool and worn by fishermen when they went out - what else - fishing. It was usually cold and wet and the outing long. The sweaters therefore were made in the round, with small tight stitches (seams, it seems, (pun intended) let in the cold) Also each knitter developed a pattern for her guy so that in case, God forbid, something happened to him, he could be identified by his particular pattern. I believe the Aran sweaters were made on the same premise. Anyway, my adventure required over 400 stitches, with a size one round needle and approximately 15 patterns going around. The only seam was at the shoulder. It took so long to make it and I really hated it by the time I was done, I gave it to my son (Forgot to tell you that they told me to do the pattern a size larger than I needed. 
Won't make that mistake again.
Billie
PS - it was really a beautiful sweater.


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## MaryE. (Feb 16, 2011)

jjane139, t he word wesket hasn't disappeared. They are a woman's blouse that is designed to wear as an over-blouse and not tucked in. I think they are mainly intended for older women and have a small distrubution. They became slightly popular at one point about 10+ years ago and initially were styled to resemble a casual jacket/blouse combo. Not in the sense of double layers, but in the sense of styling. Most westkets that I see know are strctly blouses with front cut-out or seaming that is remsembles the lines of a jacket. Some are light-weight knits that are absolutely casual but a few or dressier and suitable for office wear and/or some casual after-work entertainin. http://www.blair.com/catalog/search_command.cmd?form_state=searchForm&keyword=weskkit&search.x=37&search.y=28


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## willekeo (Mar 8, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> FireballDave said:
> 
> 
> > Fine Jersey-knit was what Coco Chanel used for her original _little black dress_ when it was usually reserved for *woollen underwear*.
> ...


You know what's worse: a woolen bathing suit. My mom made me one and it looked pretty cute, until it got wet, then it stretched and stretched, hung between my knees with the straps stretched to my waist... thank goodness I was only 6 and had no boobs....


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## deirdre ann (Mar 31, 2011)

willekeo said:


> Jessica-Jean said:
> 
> 
> > FireballDave said:
> ...


lmao!!!!! Post the picture?!!!! : ))
ah Dave, twin tubs - I remember Mam getting one, early 70's. Before that she washed clothes in the bath!
Oh a 'gansaí' is an Irish word for a jumper/pullover. When I sew, girls pinafores are often called 'jumpers'.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

willekeo said:


> You know what's worse: a woolen bathing suit.


OMG! I'd forgotten _that_! It was a two-piece (not as skimpy as a bikini; it was made in the 40's) in red and navy WOOL! When donned, it was hot and supremely itchy; when wet, it was awfully heavy. My grandmother made me take it off for lunch. She'd put it on the round cooling coils on top of the refrigerator, supposedly to dry. Putting the damp, wet-wool-smelling thing back on after lunch and naptime was _terrible_! (shudder!)


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the term 'gansai', but I suspect it's related to gansey. Seamen's spray-repellent jumpers were originally known as guernseys after the island on which they were made. When the benefits of this close-knitted garment from tightly twisted yarn became known to other fishing communities, they copied the pattern and changed the name slightly since they weren't made on the island.

Dave


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## oneyedmike (Mar 4, 2011)

No, but I think I know why we in the US call them SWEATers.


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## Linda T. (Apr 2, 2011)

It's only a cardigan if it is open and buttons ALL the way from neck to hem, and in modern times can have a zipper instead of buttons, though it must be lightweight, otherwise it would almost be one of those ugly 'hoodies'.


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## emjaybeautiful (Apr 14, 2011)

Since jumpers are sweaters to Brits, what do you call what Americans call jumpers?


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## grandma susan (Mar 24, 2011)

jessica-jean my mam used to knit my bathing costumes **** Now they DID itch when they got wet.they were knit in wool in those days. And stretch is not strong enough a word. I'd stand up out of the water and my costume would stay down. thank goodness I was too young to be embarrassed.


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## gerrihayden (Feb 17, 2011)

I am from the US but spend five months a year in Australia. I too, have wondered why they call a sweater a jumper. Thanks, for all the research and information which has answered that question for me.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

gerrihayden said:


> I am from the US but spend five months a year in Australia. I too, have wondered why they call a sweater a jumper. Thanks, for all the research and information which has answered that question for me.


Ah! But the question of _what_ the Brits and Aussies call the sleeveless, large-necklined, dress-length, usually loosely fitting, and usually worn over a blouse or shirt of some kind thingie that Americans call a jumper is still open. Come on, Commonwealth! What is it?


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## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> gerrihayden said:
> 
> 
> > I am from the US but spend five months a year in Australia. I too, have wondered why they call a sweater a jumper. Thanks, for all the research and information which has answered that question for me.
> ...


When an English person uses the word jumper, he is referring to his pullover. However, a jumper in America refers to kind of dress, which is called a pinafore in England. That is why Americans find it funny when an English person says that he is going to put on his jumper.

I worked one summer at the hospital as sort of a junior aide and the pink uniforms which we paired with a white blouse was called a pinafore, and our position was referred to as a Pinafore. I remember a bib front attached to a skirt with straps over the shoulder. I remember the sides being open above the waist but not sure what the back looked like. LOL


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## shirley m (Apr 25, 2011)

We call them a Shift. I think it comes from ollden days, when ladies wore a garment as a sort of petticoat( which we now call a slip, not that they are worn much nowadays), I have seen your use of a jumper on sewing patterns I buy. Only. we call them pinafore, or maybe tunics, but I won't go there! have a great laugh. lol.


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## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

Hmmm, a shift to me is a shapeless dress


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## shirley m (Apr 25, 2011)

It sort of is, but it has changed as the seasons go by.


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

The _shift_ was originally a simple loose, unfitted garment with straps that went between the underwear which was next to the skin and the outer garments, rather like a petticoat or chemise. They are the transition, or 'shift', garment between _under_ and _outer_ wear.

They became popular as dresses in their own right and high fashion in the 1920s, although I have seen references to women wearing them indoors or on hot Summer days in the Victorian era.

Dave


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> The _shift_ was originally a simple loose, unfitted garment with straps that went between the underwear which was next to the skin and the outer garments, rather like a petticoat or chemise. They are the transition, or 'shift', garment between _under_ and _outer_ wear.
> 
> They became popular as dresses in their own right and high fashion in the 1920s, although I have seen references to women wearing them indoors or on hot Summer days in the Victorian era.
> 
> Dave


Bravo, Dave! I've always wondered how they got that name. I guess I just never wondered enough to look for its origin. Of course, it makes perfect sense, now that you've explained it. 
Thank you.


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Bravo, Dave! I've always wondered how they got that name. I guess I just never wondered enough to look for its origin. Of course, it makes perfect sense, now that you've explained it.
> Thank you.


Clothes are continually evolving, the economic pressures of the couture system ensure it. Textiles aren't my speciality, although I do have an interest in them.

The History of Art and Design is such a vast subject with so many inter-locking strands, together with its connectedness to science, technology, geography, politics, economics, cultural history and philosophy; whichever area one is primarily interested in, one ends up becoming generalist regardless of intent.


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## grosvenor (Mar 19, 2011)

to willekeo
I knitted myself a swimsuit which lengthened to uselessness.
But my brother found a use for it - under his wetsuit when he was diving.


Grosvenor


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## Linda T. (Apr 2, 2011)

I already wrote this yesterday.
What you call a jumper, is a tunic in UK. My school uniform was navy blue serge (dry clean only, so we wore them for weeks on end!) They were round necked, and the white blouses underneath had square necks! (Head Mistress designed them without collars to avoid mother having to scrub them every week!) On top of that, 'v' necked cardigans! Can you spell, 'Hi fashion", boys and girls?


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## emjaybeautiful (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you! I have often wondered. :thumbup:


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## jjane139 (Mar 16, 2011)

My friend from Essex calls an American jumper a "pinafore dress." To me, a pinafore is a kind of apron, with ruffled straps over the shoulders and open sides and back.

Does anyone care to go into the intricacies of the jump-suit? Or have we satisfied our etymological lusts with "jumper" and "pinafore"?


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## FireballDave (Mar 18, 2011)

jjane139 said:


> My friend from Essex calls an American jumper a "pinafore dress." To me, a pinafore is a kind of apron, with ruffled straps over the shoulders and open sides and back.
> 
> Does anyone care to go into the intricacies of the jump-suit? Or have we satisfied our etymological lusts with "jumper" and "pinafore"?


Pinafore dresses were quite popular in the UK in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They were mainly worn as a practical dress option, sometimes over a blouse and trousers, particularly by office-workers as I recall.

The pinafore as in a full length apron has a much longer history.

Dave


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## pollythompson (Apr 18, 2011)

love the play-on-words joke. :lol: :lol:


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## marymal (May 9, 2011)

What a lesson I have had this morning. We have gone from jumpers to woollies to sweaters,vests cardies & more, very interesting, just love it, find it hard to sign off but I really have to go, getting my hair done today. Keep it up, luv it, luv it, luv it. Be back soon.


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## josheli (Feb 23, 2011)

hmm if "juppa" means jumper it was probably the way it was pronounced, how it sounded to the British ear? Love the history lessons here!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bravo!


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## lifetime crochet (May 5, 2011)

nooooooo its not all them lol lol lol its because momma was always telling them girls not to be jumping around (while wearing them) because they would be showing off their bloomers


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## josheli (Feb 23, 2011)

lol!


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## wilbo (Feb 16, 2011)

FireballDave said:


> The word 'jumper' is derived from the Arabic 'jubba' or loose-fitting garment. Since English is the most acquisitive language there is, we probably collected it around the time of the crusades, that would tie in with the French words for skirt and petticoat.
> 
> Dave


I knew you would know. I was just about to post "Where's Dave weighing in?" Ha


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