# Why are pattern prices getting higher?



## CindysKnitN (Oct 15, 2012)

I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Some people don't like to pay for a crafters' work on a finished product (always wants that lawn sale price).
Now you have some people that don't want to pay fair price for their patterns/designs .... Go figure .... just sayin'


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## CCNana (Mar 22, 2013)

I have had the same thoughts! The higher prices just stop me from buying. If it is a reasonable price I am more than willing to pay. I agree with your thinking that they would sell more if they were offered at a lower price.


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

some of it is higher fees from the companies processing the payments. the rest, could be folks trying to make a living when everything costs more, the rest the clue that comes to mind isn't kind.


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

If you sell on Etsy you pay for posting the pattern, you pay a percentage of the $3 when you sell the pattern and if you offer paypal they also take there percentage. By the time the seller is finished you don't have much left. Then you also have taxes at the end of the year.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Standard business practice in our capitalistic society. You learn that in business school. Only thing that has gone down are snack food/pop and large big screen TVs to get the poor to buy as well. Like the power dam that went in near my hometown where the residents were promised cheaper power rates due to the inconvenience it caused--never happened since Bonneville took over right after and sent the power to Las Vegas and LA where they raked in huge profits.

The only other example is Walmart's business plan where most workers are part time/no benefits that collect government assistance while "working"--then Walmart benefits even more with those poor buying which gives Walmart a large percentage of their profits!


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

And, with so many "almost the same" on the net for free, I don't feel the need to buy the patterns at those prices. I would if the cost was lower.


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

And, with so many "almost the same" on the net for free, I don't feel the need to buy the patterns at those prices. I would if the cost was lower.


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## Bleeshea (Jul 12, 2013)

DebraSundhausen said:


> If you sell on Etsy you pay for posting the pattern, you pay a percentage of the $3 when you sell the pattern and if you offer paypal they also take there percentage. By the time the seller is finished you don't have much left. Then you also have taxes at the end of the year.


This answer makes sense and really explains the hike. Thank you!


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## jemima (Mar 26, 2011)

I come to the conclusion that down loading worked out cheaper but you have paper and ink to supply to be able to print.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Some people don't like to pay for a crafters' work on a finished product (always wants that lawn sale price).
> Now you have some people that don't want to pay fair price for their patterns/designs .... Go figure .... just sayin'


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## CindysKnitN (Oct 15, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> Some people don't like to pay for a crafters' work on a finished product (always wants that lawn sale price).
> Now you have some people that don't want to pay fair price for their patterns/designs .... Go figure .... just sayin'


I'm just trying to understand what determines the fair price. I do buy many full price patterns - certainly more than I'll ever be able to knit up in my lifetime.


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## marlo (Nov 6, 2011)

I get my patterns from many sources including "pay for" ones. I like to check Ravelry for reviews and comments before I start a project and invest my time and/or money.


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## Bleeshea (Jul 12, 2013)

CindysKnitN said:


> I'm just trying to understand what determines the fair price. I do buy many full price patterns - certainly more than I'll ever be able to knit up in my lifetime.


I thought some of the answers were rather testy. However, DebraSundhausen actually answered the question.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


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## knitster475 (Apr 30, 2014)

Inflation maybe? If I think a pattern price is too high, I don't buy it and look around for something similar that is less expensive and make a modification of that if I want.


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## Altaskier (Apr 18, 2013)

Everything seems to be going up. Of course it is so easy, although not responsible, to share patterns with friends. Designers aren't selling as many patterns so I think they have to raise their prices.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I wish pensions would keep up with inflation.


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## Deeknits (Apr 28, 2011)

DebraSundhausen said:


> If you sell on Etsy you pay for posting the pattern, you pay a percentage of the $3 when you sell the pattern and if you offer paypal they also take there percentage. By the time the seller is finished you don't have much left. Then you also have taxes at the end of the year.


This makes the most sense to me. Designers don't get to keep every cent of the sale. They have to offer these buying conveniences to their customers, everyone wants it NOW.



patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


Exactly! Not only do the designers have the creativity to come up with great designs over and over, they spend weeks working out all the details. There are other expenses like technical editors and such that most people don't think of.

BUT I always look for comments about the quality of their designs from previous customers. Not all designers are created equal! I'm more than willing to pay the price asked from designers who produce quality work.


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## Bleeshea (Jul 12, 2013)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


I agree about how long it takes! I had a pattern I did not like they way it was written, (line 30 same as row 2 and such -also not so easy to read) so I decided to break it up in a way that made sense to me and put the directions in where needed instead of look back in the pattern. I wasn't writing it just putting in line breaks to make it easier to read. It took quite a long time. So yes time for design needs to be a factor.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I am with you in that. I have bought patterns only to be disappointed by how many mistakes I can find and then there is no apology. I know that it takes a creative mind and believe me. I do not have it.


Deeknits said:


> Exactly! Not only do the designers have the creativity to come up with great designs over and over, they spend weeks working out all the details. There are other expenses like technical editors and such that most people don't think of.
> 
> BUT I always look for comments about the quality of their designs from previous customers. Not all designers are created equal! I'm more than willing to pay the price asked from designers who produce quality work.


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## nanciann (Aug 9, 2011)

I designed my own patterns years ago and spent hours doing so. If I really like a certain pattern..I am happy to pay for all that designer's hard work. It saves my sanity. 

I am doing a sweater now of my own and I'm pulling out what little hair I have.. whatever possessed me to do that when there are so many lovelies available? LOL

I really haven't noticed any rise in the cost of patterns. My thoughts are that their expenses have probably risen if they find the need to raise their prices.


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## Pocahontas (Apr 15, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


Completely agree with you and Nanciann!


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

I'm just a novice at selling my own published patterns, but there's so much that goes on behind the scenes that the consumer never sees: getting a good idea that works, charting or writing it out is tedious, eye-crossing work, then testing it myself to make sure what is on "paper" works on the needles...sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Either way it takes a lot of time and there's a lot of frogging and editing. That's just scratching the surface.

Learning the required computer skills to publish a pattern is mind boggling!!! It isn't just copying and pasting. Computer magic has to take place to make everything fit on the page and stay there, and then it has to be made into a PDF and miraculously downsized to fit thru the cable from my computer to yours, and to do it in a reasonable amount of time.

Finding trustworthy test knitters is important, too. The data they supply has to be worked into the pattern in a way that is consumer friendly.

Attractive photos of the item are a must. That requires a camera and a computer program to edit photos and transfer them to the pattern. 

I'm almost ready to publish my 2nd pattern. I've been working on it for over a year. No way am I selling it for $5. Even though I'm not earning a living with my patterns, there are other things in my life that are getting left undone because I'm trying to give you a beautiful pattern that you can understand and knit an item that you will be proud to wear and gift.


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## Casey47 (Feb 5, 2014)

CindysKnitN said:


> I'm just trying to understand what determines the fair price. I do buy many full price patterns - certainly more than I'll ever be able to knit up in my lifetime.


Several years ago someone I know offered to buy my house. The offer was an insult. He said to me that my house wasn't worth anymore than someone was willing to pay for it. In a way he was right. On the other hand, I'm sure I can find someone who will pay me a fair price. Would I like to get 3 times the value? Sure. Do I expect to? No. Am I going to take a loss on it? No. What I'm trying to say is that 'fair' is a matter of perceptions. So many people don't consider the hidden costs to the pattern maker. For sure no pattern maker is getting paid for their TIME. When the pattern maker sets a price and a buyer feels that the pattern is worth it, BOTH parties feel the price is fair while a third party might think the pattern is not worth near the asking price. I don't think there is black or white answer to this question. It's a grey one. Pricing hand crafted items is difficult and patterns are a 'hand crafted' item.


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

Casey47,
I love your Avatar. It has my blood pressure back down where it should be.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I do think that a lot of patterns need to be tested more thoroughly. And I also think that a hat or fingerless glove pattern should not be as expensive as a complex lace pattern.


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## Dcsmith77 (Apr 18, 2011)

They don't always go up. The going price for a Sirdar leaflet with two patterns at Deramore's is $4.49. I have Sirdar leaflets from at least 10 years ago with two patterns in one leaflet marked $7.00. 

Sometimes things just go up and down. The first time I saw "Gone With the Wind" it cost $.25 (child price). When it was re-released on its 25th anniversary, I paid $5.00 to see it (adult price). Now I can get it for practically nothing downloaded or watch it free on TV.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


If I really, really want a pattern, I'm willing to pay the price for it. One I'm working on now? Pattern cost me $46 and change. It was worth it.


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## Sandiego (Sep 17, 2011)

AlderRose said:


> I'm just a novice at selling my own published patterns, but there's so much that goes on behind the scenes that the consumer never sees: getting a good idea that works, charting or writing it out is tedious, eye-crossing work, then testing it myself to make sure what is on "paper" works on the needles...sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Either way it takes a lot of time and there's a lot of frogging and editing. That's just scratching the surface.
> 
> Learning the required computer skills to publish a pattern is mind boggling!!! It isn't just copying and pasting. Computer magic has to take place to make everything fit on the page and stay there, and then it has to be made into a PDF and miraculously downsized to fit thru the cable from my computer to yours, and to do it in a reasonable amount of time.
> 
> ...


I agree, wholeheartedly! I haven't designed a pattern, but I know a lot of time, creativeness, knitting, frogging, and whatever I have missed goes into the final product of a well written pattern. I am willing to pay for a pattern. It is similar to when you knit a beautiful lace shawl and you are insulted by a person who wants to pay $25.00. Your time, effort, materials adds up to an amount people don't want to pay for a quality handknit item. Handknit items are a treasure and worth every penny. ;0)


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

Sandiego said:


> I agree, wholeheartedly! I haven't designed a pattern, but I know a lot of time, creativeness, knitting, frogging, and whatever I have missed goes into the final product of a well written pattern. I am willing to pay for a pattern. It is similar to when you knit a beautiful lace shawl and you are insulted by a person who wants to pay $25.00. Your time, effort, materials adds up to an amount people don't want to pay for a quality handknit item. Handknit items are a treasure and worth every penny. ;0)


the last time I had an underbid like that I looked at the person and asked her rather pointedly if she was willing to work for $.07 an hour. She got indignant (and rather nasty) and said no, her time was worth more than that. Told her so was mine and refused her offer.

Skilled labor and all that


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## Casey47 (Feb 5, 2014)

jbandsma said:


> If I really, really want a pattern, I'm willing to pay the price for it. One I'm working on now? Pattern cost me $46 and change. It was worth it.


Can't wait to see your finished project!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

chickkie said:


> I do think that a lot of patterns need to be tested more thoroughly. And I also think that a hat or fingerless glove pattern should not be as expensive as a complex lace pattern.


Or more expensive than the yarn I'm using to make the item


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## Sandiego (Sep 17, 2011)

Mikaiyawa said:


> the last time I had an underbid like that I looked at the person and asked her rather pointedly if she was willing to work for $.07 an hour. She got indignant (and rather nasty) and said no, her time was worth more than that. Told her so was mine and refused her offer.
> 
> Skilled labor and all that


Exactly! Your time is worth more than $.07. That is the biggest reason I don't knit for money. I only knit for friends and family, gifts. ;0)


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## PapillonThreads (Mar 23, 2012)

marlo said:


> I get my patterns from many sources including "pay for" ones. I like to check Ravelry for reviews and comments before I start a project and invest my time and/or money.


Yep....
Plus I have so many patterns already...I can take ideas and bits and parts of patterns and figure out how to make them just the way I want them....well, with some trial and error! I get some happy mistakes too!


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

Casey47 said:


> Can't wait to see your finished project!


Just now picking up the 865 stitches. :hunf:


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


I agree with you Pat, and Debra Sundhausen has a very valid point. It takes *a lot* of hard work to produce a pattern. If the design is something I want to knit, I'm willing to pay the price. The person who went to all of that time and effort to produce a pattern of beauty deserves to be paid for his/her efforts. No one is going to get rich designing and producing patterns.


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


Oops! Managed to post twice. :?


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

Altaskier said:


> Everything seems to be going up. Of course it is so easy, although not responsible, to share patterns with friends. Designers aren't selling as many patterns so I think they have to raise their prices.


The cost of living keeps going up and up. Just look at what's happening with groceries gasoline - and that's just for starters...


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> Just now picking up the 865 stitches. :hunf:


I feel for you!


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

I posted one pattern for free on here for KP members only. It took me awhile to make up the pattern then typing it up as I crocheted. When I got through there were some typos. Some waited while I worked my regular job and then came home to find and fix the errors. One person in particular said there was a mistake and would not tell me what wasn't working. She even started typing back in all caps. That was when I decided never to post another free pattern. Since it was posted for free, everyone was in a sense test crocheting the pattern. Now I crochet the pattern, then type it up and then crochet the pattern again to correct the mistakes.

Debbie


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

Sandiego said:


> I agree, wholeheartedly! I haven't designed a pattern, but I know a lot of time, creativeness, knitting, frogging, and whatever I have missed goes into the final product of a well written pattern. I am willing to pay for a pattern. It is similar to when you knit a beautiful lace shawl and you are insulted by a person who wants to pay $25.00. Your time, effort, materials adds up to an amount people don't want to pay for a quality handknit item. Handknit items are a treasure and worth every penny. ;0)


Candy, if someone offered me such an amount for one of my shawls, I'd turn my back on that "@#$%" and walk away. I'm appalled! :hunf:


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

I quit making items for anyone other than family. If someone else asks me to make something they are told to go buy the yarn they want and make sure there is enough to finish it. That usually finishes the request for something being made.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

DebraSundhausen said:


> I posted one pattern for free on here for KP members only. It took me awhile to make up the pattern then typing it up as I crocheted. When I got through there were some typos. Some waited while I worked my regular job and then came home to find and fix the errors. One person in particular said there was a mistake and would not tell me what wasn't working. She even started typing back in all caps. That was when I decided never to post another free pattern. Since it was posted for free, everyone was in a sense test crocheting the pattern. Now I crochet the pattern, then type it up and then crochet the pattern again to correct the mistakes.
> 
> Debbie


The other problem that shows up, and I really hate that I ended up being part of it was that I saw a pattern I really liked, BOUGHT it...and then found out that the designer had posted it free for KP members here. Yes, I let her know what happened but boy am I peeved about that. Someone stole her work (and no, it wasnt derivative...they even used her photo, the whole pattern and just took her name off it. That's just not right.

The worst of it is that it had to be someone here on KP, because that's the only place the pattern had been posted.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The other problem that shows up, and I really hate that I ended up being part of it was that I saw a pattern I really liked, BOUGHT it...and then found out that the designer had posted it free for KP members here. Yes, I let her know what happened but boy am I peeved about that. Someone stole her work (and no, it wasnt derivative...they even used her photo, the whole pattern and just took her name off it. That's just not right.
> 
> The worst of it is that it had to be someone here on KP, because that's the only place the pattern had been posted.


some people have a lot of nerve! I hope it was reported and removed.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The other problem that shows up, and I really hate that I ended up being part of it was that I saw a pattern I really liked, BOUGHT it...and then found out that the designer had posted it free for KP members here. Yes, I let her know what happened but boy am I peeved about that. Someone stole her work (and no, it wasnt derivative...they even used her photo, the whole pattern and just took her name off it. That's just not right.
> 
> The worst of it is that it had to be someone here on KP, because that's the only place the pattern had been posted.


some people have a lot of nerve! I hope it was reported and removed. I have seen post a whole pattern when they ask for help. If there is a problem with the pattern why not ask the designer?


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## standsalonewolf (Dec 1, 2011)

greed


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

chickkie said:


> some people have a lot of nerve! I hope it was reported and removed.


That's just it...there's no way to tell who did it and the pattern was offered on another site. It's not there any more (in fact, the whole site is gone), the payment was through paypal and they won't tell you who the account belongs to.


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## reborn knitter (Apr 7, 2013)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


Your "2 cents worth" was worth more than that to me! My not so good math brain cringes at the work that goes into creating a pattern!


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

Someone took mine and posted it on facebook and etsy without asking. They took it down in both places. I have it posted on etsy for sale for $3 which makes me less than $1.50 for the ease of people who don't want to take the time to look for it or join KP. There are a lot of people out there that aren't a member here. It was another KP member that suggested I put it on etsy.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I never use Etsy or eBay. I would have to raise my prices and I don't want to do that. Shipping is the killer on anything more than a pattrern if it is sent as a hard copy. I don't have a color printer so prefer to buy the hard copy of a pattern.


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## stringtoathing (Jul 6, 2014)

Speaking as a designer....

I spend a week or more on a design. This includes the time to design it, knit or crochet it, write it up.

Then I find testers. Run a test for two-three weeks. Get feedback. Make pattern corrections. 

Then I will take the corrected pattern and make a second one myself only going off the pattern. Just to verify that it is understandable. 

Then comes listing it. I never list a pattern for more than 1.99. I just don't feel right listing it for more than that. I know how I feel about paying a lot for a pattern so I wont list my patterns for a lot. Granted I am in a niche with a small market (dog patterns), although I am about to expand.

After paying the listing fees on a place like Etsy, which is $0.20 , PayPal will take another $0.36. That means for my month plus of time invested in designing that pattern, if I am lucky enough to get a sale, I make $1.43. I need to make at least 10 sales to cover the cost of supplies in the design if I use free testers, which are hard to find.

I do agree that a lot of designers WAY overcharge for patterns lately. I've noticed the cost increase lately myself.

There is a lot that goes into design and testing but I hope this helps y'all understand it a bit.


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> The other problem that shows up, and I really hate that I ended up being part of it was that I saw a pattern I really liked, BOUGHT it...and then found out that the designer had posted it free for KP members here. Yes, I let her know what happened but boy am I peeved about that. Someone stole her work (and no, it wasnt derivative...they even used her photo, the whole pattern and just took her name off it. That's just not right.
> 
> The worst of it is that it had to be someone here on KP, because that's the only place the pattern had been posted.


Isn't that copyright infringement? ...a very big "NO NO!"


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## flightpath (May 4, 2014)

I don't mind paying a decent price for a real pattern. (I know, "decent price" is a relative term.) What gets my goat is paying for something that really has nothing to it, very vague, general directions, or one of those that really has you do the directions yourself! Some just present an idea that you can run with. Well, I had the idea, too, but thought I was getting a pattern of how to execute the idea!! (If a pattern is free, it may be anywhere from great to horrid, but for free...that's the way it goes.) 

I think there are two classes of on-line, paid patterns now, the true patterns that someone has designed and spent a lot of time and effort on, and those that show a pretty picture, but there is no substance to it. The problem is that you can't really tell the difference until after you've paid your money. Then you know what "designer" to stay away from. I feel bad for the true designers who work so hard to develop and produce a good pattern, but are undermined by those "fake" designers who apparently see a quick way to grab some money.

I try to get a feel for which category a pattern is in by looking at the Ravelry Project notes/comments, but get mixed results. The comments are invariably from someone who hasn't done the project yet, "loves" the pattern, and can't wait to make it. Project Notes can be more helpful, but it's a mixed bag.

Where are the pattern police? Guess it's Caveat Emptor. 
To all of you "true" designers who work so hard and are so skilled, Thank You! :thumbup:


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

flightpath said:


> I don't mind paying a decent price for a real pattern. (I know, "decent price" is a relative term.) What gets my goat is paying for something that really has nothing to it, very vague, general directions, or one of those that really has you do the directions yourself! Some just present an idea that you can run with. Well, I had the idea, too, but thought I was getting a pattern of how to execute the idea!! (If a pattern is free, it may be anywhere from great to horrid, but for free...that's the way it goes.)
> 
> I think there are two classes of on-line, paid patterns now, the true patterns that someone has designed and spent a lot of time and effort on, and those that show a pretty picture, but there is no substance to it. The problem is that you can't really tell the difference until after you've paid your money. Then you know what "designer" to stay away from. I feel bad for the true designers who work so hard to develop and produce a good pattern, but are undermined by those "fake" designers who apparently see a quick way to grab some money.
> 
> ...


Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

My pattern on etsy is in pdf format now. I was unable to change to a pdf before this. The one I posted on here for free is a doc file.


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

disgo said:


> Standard business practice in our capitalistic society. You learn that in business school. Only thing that has gone down are snack food/pop and large big screen TVs to get the poor to buy as well. Like the power dam that went in near my hometown where the residents were promised cheaper power rates due to the inconvenience it caused--never happened since Bonneville took over right after and sent the power to Las Vegas and LA where they raked in huge profits.
> 
> The only other example is Walmart's business plan where most workers are part time/no benefits that collect government assistance while "working"--then Walmart benefits even more with those poor buying which gives Walmart a large percentage of their profits!


Also if you look at the sizes of the snack foods and cereal. In granola boxes they have gone down in size and number per box. Granola bars used to have 10 per box now its 8 but the box is the same size. Same with cereal, especially the ones that attract the small children.

My dog food used to weigh 28 lbs and now is 26 lbs, but the price is still the same.

I do understand the esty/paypal/etc situation and why patterns costs so much. I look for free since I can't afford $5/6.00 for a pattern for something I know I will knit once.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I second that!


CathyAnn said:


> Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sandiego (Sep 17, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> I second that!


I third it!!!! ;0)


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## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

I know that this is a fair question but take into consideration the work that goes into making a pattern, the yarns that are used to test knit the item before it hits the market, it has to be knitted/crocheted time and time again to get the pattern just right and understandable to lots of different people. You may have to make as many as 6-8 times before it is right to post. Then you have to compensate the test knitters in some way, if not pay, then patterns, yarn, etc. I can understand the costs going up but hey, the cost of everything is going up. You just see it easier in patterns or items you don't buy all the time. When you purchase a pattern, 99% of the time you pay for what you get...a great pattern. Some of the free patterns are a lesser quality pattern with errors here or there. Now don't start yelling, hear me out...............the free patterns more than likely have been tried a couple times, without the help and assistance of test knitters so as to keep the price down. If you want quality, do not settle for less and pay for the pattern and don't grumble...........otherwise just pass over that high priced pattern. If it is something I like and I know that I will make, I don't mind paying a higher cost. But, once I was looking for a monkey pattern and spent $20.00 on patterns that I could not use. They didn't make sense from the first row. I finally found a designer and asked if she could make one for me. She did but it did not come with easy time doing it. So keep that in mind when you figure the cost of patterns also.


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

That electric rate decrease is always a scam. I have cousins who lease the rights to gas and/or oil under their land and they all thought, actually were told when they signed the leases that their bills for any gas they used would be cheap, cheap, cheap. Goes up every 8 to 12 months.Some of them don't get enough money from their leases (lots of heirs to divide the money) to pay the heating bill for a year.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

seamer45 said:


> That electric rate decrease is always a scam. I have cousins who lease the rights to gas and/or oil under their land and they all thought, actually were told when they signed the leases that their bills for any gas they used would be cheap, cheap, cheap. Goes up every 8 to 12 months.Some of them don't get enough money from their leases (lots of heirs to divide the money) to pay the heating bill for a year.


And if their land is being fracked, they are losing their water.


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## MKDesigner (Jan 27, 2014)

I design for knitting machines. Have since the mid-late 70's, and until about the mid 90's, they were printed, promoted, sold and mailed out. I'd take my stock to seminars, workshops, anywhere I could find to market my patterns.

Once I was fully on the internet with websites, selling venues, etc., I went all digital. And the price went down drastically. For instance (NOT PROMO-ING HERE) my Baskets, Blossoms & Butterflies book sold for $20 printed. Most people only wanted the flowers -or- the baskets. So I split them up into two. And now they're half the price.

Not all designers have price hikes and on the other hand, not all designers lower prices.  Yes, the selling venues are eating into what little profit we designers get for all our hard work. There are free selling venues out there, some great -- some, well, not so much.

I'm constantly creating more and more patterns, and trying to determine what the *fair* market price should be for them. Sometimes I hit the mark, sometimes I over-price by accident, sometimes I'm making literally pennies per pattern. Ah well, such is the life of a designer. 
  

Marge


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## desireeross (Jun 2, 2013)

In the past two weeks I bought two shawl patterns. I saw them on Ravelry and in the description the designer gave their website address for more information. Both times the pattern was on sale on their sites for between $1 and $1.50 less than on Ravelry. So it pays to shop around. 

I've also bought a pattern cheaper on etsy than the Ravelry price.


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## faigiezipper (Apr 25, 2011)

Everything costs more today. That is just how it is.


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

AlderRose said:


> Casey47,
> I love your Avatar. It has my blood pressure back down where it should be.


Yes, I too love the avatar. It's hilarious.


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## elenapicado (Mar 18, 2012)

We pay not for the ease of downloading or the ink and paper, but for the endless hours it took to create a masterpiece in theory (the pattern itself) AND then the actual knitting of the item before it can be sold. Knitting it implies correcting, adapting, changing, frogging. It takes creativity, knowledge, mastery, and time, LOTS of time. This is why we pay, and, IMHO, well worth it.


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## kareb (Dec 30, 2013)

Everything cost more & prices just keep going up. Then there's the fact that there are lots of greedy people & companies out there.


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## circularknitter (Jan 11, 2014)

because the world is money hungry :?:


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## spinninggill (Apr 9, 2011)

As someone pointed out,there are fees to be paid to the selling platforms (some take as much as 40%). There are also the 'hidden 'costs - materials to make prototypes and finished products for photography; time to iron out the awkward bits;time to write up the pattern; payment for test knitters and the materials for them. Many designers are trying to make a living with their skills and designs. Hope this puts things more in perspective.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

flightpath said:


> I don't mind paying a decent price for a real pattern. (I know, "decent price" is a relative term.) What gets my goat is paying for something that really has nothing to it, very vague, general directions, or one of those that really has you do the directions yourself! Some just present an idea that you can run with. Well, I had the idea, too, but thought I was getting a pattern of how to execute the idea!! (If a pattern is free, it may be anywhere from great to horrid, but for free...that's the way it goes.)
> 
> I think there are two classes of on-line, paid patterns now, the true patterns that someone has designed and spent a lot of time and effort on, and those that show a pretty picture, but there is no substance to it. The problem is that you can't really tell the difference until after you've paid your money. Then you know what "designer" to stay away from. I feel bad for the true designers who work so hard to develop and produce a good pattern, but are undermined by those "fake" designers who apparently see a quick way to grab some money.
> 
> ...


I have a triangular shawl pattern that's very simple. I could write it out in several lines of rows to knit and have 3/4 of the page left over.

But I've written it up for people who don't know anything about design and want to learn how to design their own shawls. It walks you through the whole design process and simplifies all the choices, showing you why you might want one choice over another, etc. It's what you need to know to start designing your own knitwear in the simplest way possible.

The pattern runs for pages, but none of it is complicated. What you finish up with might be complicated, but the instructions aren't. I think that makes it worth the money.

I've taught some classes, and when I do, the the remarks from students are usually things like, "Oh! That's easy!" "That makes sense." "Oh, now I understand!" etc. I not only teach _what_ to do, but _why._

I think that's worth it.

The thing I like best about the pattern is that I've gotten photos back from many different people of the shawls they've knit. Each and every one was totally different than all the others!


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

Alder rose,I love your stole pattern.I haven't bought it : I have put it on my wants list for the present.


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## nitnurse (May 20, 2012)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


Google for free patterns - there are a lot out there!


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

I completely agree with all the things that have been said here about the cost of marketing a design, the work that goes into designing something, and the weeks spent writing it up in a way that's easy to do and easy to understand. They are all valid answers.

But there's one thing that you haven't considered, and that's money.

Every time you buy something with US dollars, you're paying with a _concept_ of money.

US money is not real. It's not money. It's a _concept_ of money.

When things get bad, the US (or, more accurately, the Fed) just prints up more. And every time they do this, all the money that's out there is worth less.

I read that late in the 19th century, a cowboy made a good wage at $30 per month. In the early '50s, my grade school class was assigned to find out how much their fathers made per week. The average was about $50 per week before taxes. For skilled workers who supported their families well on that money. When I started working in the early '60s, I was making $50 per week at minimum wage. In the '70s, it was more like $200. By 1990, I was making $500 per week for the same work. As of 10 years ago, it was $1,000 per week. All for the same work.

The price hadn't gone up. The value of the money people were paid went down.

We, as a country, have a really bad plan for dealing with money. It creates a series of booms and busts. That would be bad enough, but each bust is worse. If you look up financial info, they'll tell you that there was a bust in 2008. Our government put another band aid on it, and let it go. People who work with money are expecting another one really soon, and they think this one or the next one will be the _really_ big one that leaves our money completely worthless.

There's been talk of a revaluation soon, and I hope they do that. That will mean that one morning, the banks will be closed to depositors, and a few days or a week later, they will reopen with new money that you'll be able to trade your current money for. The denomination (actual number on the bills) will be lower, but you'll be able to buy as much with it. The new money (if they do it right) will be a gold based currency, which will change it to something that is based on something real instead of an abstract theory.

If that ultimate bust happens, money will be worthless, the banks will shut down permanently, and you won't be able to buy _anything_ with money. You'll be going to the grocery store saying that you want to trade the sweater you've knit for a week's worth of groceries. It won't be pretty, and may even start the collapse of our civilization.

If the revaluation happens, it will be inconvenient. If it doesn't, it will be catastrophic! And you won't be able to buy patterns at any price.


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## kareb (Dec 30, 2013)

Lostarts, I like your explanation. I keep thinking there has to be a major change sometime.


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

If there is a pattern that I like, I will gladly pay for it. A lot of time and effort goes into designing.


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## trish1952 (Jul 12, 2014)

My sentiments exactly. A lot of time goes into the writing of a pattern and when you think about it, the price is small in comparison. If I like the pattern, I buy it even if there's only a slight difference because that slight difference can make all the difference in the world. Of course, I won't pay a ridiculous amount of money  I once paid $20 but got 3 patterns and all 3 patterns are my favorites. I think it's a very personal thing and you should do what feels right for you.


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## Ali9407 (Jun 25, 2011)

With so many free patterns available I have to really like it to pay.


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## Debi55 (Jun 4, 2014)

I actually sent a message to a pattern supplier stating that with the availability of free patterns, I cannot justify paying $5+ for a pattern. Yarn is always included when displaying a pattern, so why can't yarn makers kick in some money/sponsor for the patterns....We will obviously need yarn to make the pattern!


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

My question to you is, if you teach this to others, do you charge a fee for your time? I know I attended Stitches West this past February and I paid for all the classes, none of them were for free and I did not expect them to be as all the instructors do have to make a living, sell their patterns, time etc., I am sure they have costs and just living expenses that are not given to them for free. This is one reason I do not begrudge paying for patterns specially for those designers that I admire and love their work.


lostarts said:


> I have a triangular shawl pattern that's very simple. I could write it out in several lines of rows to knit and have 3/4 of the page left over.
> 
> But I've written it up for people who don't know anything about design and want to learn how to design their own shawls. It walks you through the whole design process and simplifies all the choices, showing you why you might want one choice over another, etc. It's what you need to know to start designing your own knitwear in the simplest way possible.
> 
> ...


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I have bought one from you and I have had no qualms about paying for yours and other designers that I have met through this forum. You deserve to be payed for all your hard work and creativity! Keep at it, Southern Girl!


SouthernGirl said:


> If there is a pattern that I like, I will gladly pay for it. A lot of time and effort goes into designing.


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## YarnStalker (May 30, 2011)

Bleeshea said:


> I thought some of the answers were rather testy. However, DebraSundhausen actually answered the question.


Each time the Etsy seller renews an item they pay the fees all over again.
My Etsy shop is dwindling down to just about nothing because I was getting tired of the tiny little fees constantly being automatically charged to my charge card.
Since the cost of living is going up and my income isn't, I rarely pay my charge card off each month.
It's painful to pay interest on .20 charges. 
I have had a similar conversation with a few people recently. When I started working minimum wage was somewhere around $1/hour - way back in the old days of 1975. The Ford and GM workers that I know started out at the same time around $5/hour. Now - I've been stuck in the same pay range for 15 years as a contract employee for those auto companies. The auto companies are hiring in new workers as the older workers are retiring. Those new wages are half of what the retirees were getting.
As I said, prices aren't going down and those high-paying jobs are fading quickly. The UAW International contract is up in another 18 months which means a lot of them will be pushed out and the new employees brought in. Those lower wage employees are having trouble buying those cars they're building.
It's not going to be pleasant here in the US as wages transition backwards. You got to know that the manufacturers and retailers won't adjust their prices to half of what they are now.


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## Debi55 (Jun 4, 2014)

Bleeshea-Point well taken.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

kareb said:


> Lostarts, I like your explanation. I keep thinking there has to be a major change sometime.


It's an alarming state of affairs, and most Americans are ignorant of it.

What's even worse, is that it's a worldwide problem.

So, if a revaluation comes, as I said, it will be inconvenient, but, if it's done right, it will lead to a stable economy that will not have rampant inflation as a major design feature. It will also have other advantages that you would have to study a bit about money and how it currently works to understand.


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

I knit for charity and could not possibly afford to buy all the wonderful patterns that are for sale. I do understand and appreciate the work and effort that goes into designing a pattern. I just wish I had extra money to indulge.


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## johannecw (Oct 25, 2011)

I have paid money for patterns from Gypsycream (Pat) and Stevieland (Dee), for example. When I have had a question and emailed them, they took time from their workday to answer me. I am happy to pay for their patterns because I am paying for the time that went into the creation of the pattern and the time they help me. If we want to continue to have quality designs, we need to realize that the time of the designer is valuable! Remember that these designs have been tested out and rarely have any errors in them by the time they get to us!


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

The free patterns are getting paid for somewhere, somehow. Maybe through the higher price of yarn or accessories. Nothing is really free. I won't pay for a book that has only one pattern I like; never fails I will never find that pattern anyplace else. Now I get most of my patterns through the recommandations of you guys!


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## mperrone (Mar 14, 2013)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


I agree with you 100%. If someone is willing to take the time to develop beautiful new patterns, I'm willing to pay for them.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree with you, when I've had any questions of Dee,she gets back to me with the patience of a saint and has guided me through the "problem" I thought had existed and I'll gladly pay for that!


johannecw said:


> I have paid money for patterns from Gypsycream (Pat) and Stevieland (Dee), for example. When I have had a question and emailed them, they took time from their workday to answer me. I am happy to pay for their patterns because I am paying for the time that went into the creation of the pattern and the time they help me. If we want to continue to have quality designs, we need to realize that the time of the designer is valuable! Remember that these designs have been tested out and rarely have any errors in them by the time they get to us!


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## knitwit549 (Oct 10, 2012)

DebraSundhausen said:


> I posted one pattern for free on here for KP members only. It took me awhile to make up the pattern then typing it up as I crocheted. When I got through there were some typos. Some waited while I worked my regular job and then came home to find and fix the errors. One person in particular said there was a mistake and would not tell me what wasn't working. She even started typing back in all caps. That was when I decided never to post another free pattern. Since it was posted for free, everyone was in a sense test crocheting the pattern. Now I crochet the pattern, then type it up and then crochet the pattern again to correct the mistakes.
> 
> Debbie


Totally understand...I've posted a few patterns here for free, and had much the same responses. I do think most folks here are understanding enough to realize that for a lot of us, pattern designing/writing is NOT a full time job. Many of us have one of those to pay the bills.

I knit and crochet because I love to. I create a new, different baby blankie for every new little one at work. Co workers very appreciative. Have gotten many requests to make things, I have never had a coworker say "that's too much". Surprisingly enough, have heard, that's not enough.

I am NOT a pattern writer, I usually state that clearly when sharing something I've created and think others may enjoy doing.

It's flattering to get rave reviews on a picture you've posted, and requests for patterns. I always give credit (& a link when possible) to elements I used, or if I've totally used someone's pattern. And sometimes I am able to write up my "recipe" for the item I've created.

I know there are other knitters/crocheters out there who can look at an item and recreate it with their interpretation. Then there are those who have to have line by line, and stitch by stitch directions. (And some who would prefer a full color chart.).

I have never charged for any pattern/recipe I've created...so I apologize when I've missed correcting a typo or some wording that someone didn't understand....I guess it's true, you get what you pay for!?!?


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## Billykins (Jun 6, 2012)

What I have noticed is that years ago if you purchased a pattern say a sweater it would go from a child to an adult - now no chance. Haven't the pattern makers realised that so many are now free. I will not purchase a pattern unless there is no other way. I am not mean, just watch the pennies.


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## Obsessed (Jan 22, 2012)

Debi55 said:


> I actually sent a message to a pattern supplier stating that with the availability of free patterns, I cannot justify paying $5+ for a pattern. Yarn is always included when displaying a pattern, so why can't yarn makers kick in some money/sponsor for the patterns....We will obviously need yarn to make the pattern!


Check out the Lion Brand website for tons of free patterns!


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## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

What has not been mentioned is the additional hours of follow up work that these pattern developers take on when the answer all the questions we have about the patterns they post. During the time I have been a member of KP, I frequently see you guys saying "just contact the designer, they will help you". That means that there is a significant amount of time that goes into the care and feeding of your baby once it is out in the marketplace.


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## MaryanneW (Jun 5, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


I agree...we have to consider the artist's time and expertise. I do not mind paying under for a pattern I really like.


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## knitnanny (Feb 28, 2012)

You are paying for the designers work and talent, not the paper or printing....it takes a lot of work to design and then write out patterns.


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## wurzel (Aug 6, 2012)

It is not just patterns - everything goes up. The cost of the paper and printing has to be taken into account. If I want a specific pattern, I buy it. Older patterns are easy to adapt - I am still using some that were my Mum`s, and she passed away in 1973. Just slightly alter to a modern look
Happy knitting everyone.


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## Deeknits (Apr 28, 2011)

johannecw said:


> I have paid money for patterns from Gypsycream (Pat) and Stevieland (Dee), for example. When I have had a question and emailed them, they took time from their workday to answer me. I am happy to pay for their patterns because I am paying for the time that went into the creation of the pattern and the time they help me. If we want to continue to have quality designs, we need to realize that the time of the designer is valuable! Remember that these designs have been tested out and rarely have any errors in them by the time they get to us!


Agree! And don't forget alot of these designers have 'regular' jobs. They still have all the normal things to get done every day before they can sit down and work on their designs. Then add the time they spend on emails and PM's answering the multitude of questions they get, or even just answering the 'Thank You' emails. Those few hours in the evenings they thought could be spent working on the design has now been used for customer service....all which is equally important.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

Or the KAL's that they "host" for all of us to join in!!


Shylinn said:


> What has not been mentioned is the additional hours of follow up work that these pattern developers take on when the answer all the questions we have about the patterns they post. During the time I have been a member of KP, I frequently see you guys saying "just contact the designer, they will help you". That means that there is a significant amount of time that goes into the care and feeding of your baby once it is out in the marketplace.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I so agree with you Deeknits! I sometimes wonder how many copies of one particular pattern has to be sold for the designer to" make a profit" 100? 1,000? If you add up all the time that was spent on the design etc., and then answering emails and being patient with us the consumers, well I just don't know how much $ they can make? So again, after spending 12 hours in a classroom and barely touching the surface of how to design my own...I'll leave it to the creative experts and gladly pay for their beautiful patterns.


Deeknits said:


> Agree! And don't forget alot of these designers have 'regular' jobs. They still have all the normal things to get done every day before they can sit down and work on their designs. Then add the time they spend on emails and PM's answering the multitude of questions they get, or even just answering the 'Thank You' emails. Those few hours in the evenings they thought could be spent working on the design has now been used for customer service....all which is equally important.


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## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

CCNana said:


> I have had the same thoughts! The higher prices just stop me from buying. If it is a reasonable price I am more than willing to pay. I agree with your thinking that they would sell more if they were offered at a lower price.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: That's my feelings too.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Why do the original posts get distorted and run in a totally wrong direction?????? 
The comment was *Why are the prices going up when they are just a download as opposed to mailing them off like before* Clearly it costs more to MAIL something than it does to set up a auto download!!! its not rocket science LOL I look at magazines and they are only a dollar or 2 cheaper to download that is not right!!! I don't mind paying for it but honestly I'll pay the postage to have something to curl up with and read over sitting at this computer to do that..


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## mollyannhad (Feb 1, 2011)

patocenizo said:


> This year I took a two day course on how to design your own lace shawl or what ever. Have you ever seen how much work goes into the designing of these patterns? I have emailed designers and know how hard they work to produce these designs, then they do their test knitting and figure out yardage, weights and whatnot to then sell their creations. I don't begrudge them because after my two days of hard work ( 12 hours total) learning how to place stitches etc., I have decided not to go there but to pay the price and just be enjoy knitting and to...follow the pattern. That's just my two cents worth.


I like what you said--it is a lot of work to design something and write it up. I like to charge the same for all my patterns though, even though some are more complicated than others. It makes it easier to figure my sales in the long run. I also love that independent designers can actually sell their designs singly so you get the one pattern you like instead of having to buy a whole book just to get one or two patterns that you really liked.


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## dauntiekay (Jan 18, 2014)

Yes, not only in the knitting world but even the fabric sewing world! I can remember the day when these patterns cost $.25 to $.50 and now they are up to $10. and $20. or more per pattern! I guess everything goes up as time go on.


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## nevadalynn (Apr 27, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Some people don't like to pay for a crafters' work on a finished product (always wants that lawn sale price).
> Now you have some people that don't want to pay fair price for their patterns/designs .... Go figure .... just sayin'


 I agree. Not being a designer myself - it is one of my knitting goals - I recognize that so much time and effort goes into creating a pattern that I can certainly see where a person would want to charge for an original pattern.


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## AuntKnitty (Apr 10, 2011)

I think that it's designers *finally* pricing their work appropriately. Unless you've designed something like an intricate shawl, you have NO IDEA how much time it takes, just between inception to first draft; then there's knitting, taking notes, ripping, trying again, adjusting the numbers etc. etc. etc. 

I'm well and tired too, of the poverty consciousness of crafters saying "Oh you can only get 3 times the cost". That simply isn't true. And when less people embrace that "3 times" model, more people will be better paid. 

It hurts my heart when I see members asking what they should charge and being told by others to ask for nearly nothing.


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## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


I never pay for a pattern, I always get free patterns on line,


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## justinjared (May 31, 2012)

CCNana said:


> I have had the same thoughts! The higher prices just stop me from buying. If it is a reasonable price I am more than willing to pay. I agree with your thinking that they would sell more if they were offered at a lower price.


i agree with you. I cannot afford a 6-10.00 pattern and yarn. I look for cheaper patterns and free. I see even on this site people charge 3-5$ for an old pattern with a regular price tag at 1$. just my opinion.


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## tat'sgran (Dec 13, 2011)

As any person who has endeavoured to design their own patterns has experienced, the writing of patterns is NOT a quick adventure. If one was to charge for the hours of knitting, frogging and reknitting, test knitting, writing out the process and then transferring it to a file for sale, one would never believe the time involved.
And as mentioned here by DebraSundhausen the designers pay fees and taxes to post their work on the sites like etsy.
I try to determine the amount of time and energy that was exerted in setting a price. If my prices are too high for some who want the pattern, I wish they would pm me to discuss it. Meantime, happy knitting friends. xo


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


For $6.98 you can get a whole magazine. And when you get them online, you do the printing and use your ink and paper. I too think it is pricey, but if the designer doesn't sell to a magazine and it's is a one of a kind, at least you know you won't see several people with the same thing. So if the designer isn't selling in mass, I think the price is about right.


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## 33141 (Aug 24, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


I believe it is not the actual cost of the pattern (electronic or paper) that accounts for the price of the pattern, although that is a tiny portion of the total. It is the cost of the designer's time. This is what they do for a living, although I'm guessing most make less than minimum wage when you consider the hours they invest in a design. If they reach a certain level of popularity, then they can begin to do workshops, write books, lecture, etc. and may start making what most of us would consider a living wage.

I know several designers and it was a real eye opener from me when we asked them how they were paid for publishing patterns. We learned that they may spend 3-6 months working on a design, knitting, tearing out, re-knitting ad nauseam until they have a workable test. That pattern is then test knit. Based on feed back from test knitters, the designer goes back to the drawing board to revise the pattern and test knit again.

While selling patterns electronically does save the cost of printing and shipping copies to stores, the savings are offset by what the site selling the pattern, the company that collects the money (PayPal) and the credit card companies charge. By the time all these folks get the bite out of the pie, my guess is that printing may actually be cheaper, but selling electronically is far more convenient for the customer which in turn increases sales.

My reason for not sharing copies of patterns has less to do with copyright laws than my respect for the designers who are trying to make a living creating patterns. If left up me to design my own patterns, there would be a lot of garter stitch in my future!


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## Mollie (Feb 23, 2011)

Do like I do--I get them free off the Internet.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

Years ago the yarn companies offered lots of free patterns, to encourage sale of their yarns, though there were booklets and books selling patterns too. These days with everything costing more, the yarn companies don't want to pay very much for the free patters they do offer, so the high-end designers have to charge more for their pay-for patterns. Everybody is suffering in this economy so everyone has to charge more. It's a vicious cycle


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## randiejg (Oct 29, 2011)

I really hated it when the trend of individual patterns instead of books started. Then it seemed that even with books, there was one good pattern (usually modeled on the cover), and the rest was fillers, so books seemed to become more expensive and less useful.

Thankfully, there are more knitting magazines now that have more down-to-earth patterns, instead of those in magazines like Vogue Knitting. My solution is to cut down on my subscriptions to only a few that have styles I am actually likely to use, and then use a charting program on the computer to make my own patterns in the needed size, using the magazine patterns for inspiration.

I will still buy a reasonably priced individual pattern now and then, but for the more outrageously priced items, I look for a free version that's similar, and go from there.


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## tat'sgran (Dec 13, 2011)

MG said:


> I believe it is not the actual cost of the pattern (electronic or paper) that accounts for the price of the pattern, although that is a tiny portion of the total. It is the cost of the designer's time. This is what they do for a living, although I'm guessing most make less than minimum wage when you consider the hours they invest in a design. If they reach a certain level of popularity, then they can begin to do workshops, write books, lecture, etc. and may start making what most of us would consider a living wage.
> 
> I know several designers and it was a real eye opener from me when we asked them how they were paid for publishing patterns. We learned that they may spend 3-6 months working on a design, knitting, tearing out, re-knitting ad nauseam until they have a workable test. That pattern is then test knit. Based on feed back from test knitters, the designer goes back to the drawing board to revise the pattern and test knit again.
> 
> ...


You said it all friend.. and far better than I did.. ! xo


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

Amen to all you have said!!


MG said:


> I believe it is not the actual cost of the pattern (electronic or paper) that accounts for the price of the pattern, although that is a tiny portion of the total. It is the cost of the designer's time. This is what they do for a living, although I'm guessing most make less than minimum wage when you consider the hours they invest in a design. If they reach a certain level of popularity, then they can begin to do workshops, write books, lecture, etc. and may start making what most of us would consider a living wage.
> 
> I know several designers and it was a real eye opener from me when we asked them how they were paid for publishing patterns. We learned that they may spend 3-6 months working on a design, knitting, tearing out, re-knitting ad nauseam until they have a workable test. That pattern is then test knit. Based on feed back from test knitters, the designer goes back to the drawing board to revise the pattern and test knit again.
> 
> ...


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## CuriousKitty (Dec 19, 2013)

My only gripe is when you do purchase a pattern (in good faith), start working only to find problems, after trying on your own to work it out (sometimes brain fog gets in the way!), contacting the 'designer' only to be blown off or getting a rude response without results...IF you get any response at all. Otherwise, I'm more than happy to pay for someone's wonderful work and creativity, if possible! Kudos to all the MANY really good designers! Hopefully Karma will catch up with the shysters and pattern thieves!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Some people don't like to pay for a crafters' work on a finished product (always wants that lawn sale price).
> Now you have some people that don't want to pay fair price for their patterns/designs .... Go figure .... just sayin'


Not only do I agree, but I wonder why, at a time when everything else is increasing in price, even some crafters want everything handed to them for free. I've been poor, and I've been not poor, so I see both sides of it, but I've never been one to want to leech off the livelihood of anyone else. What a heck of a world we live in.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

I always say things can be as high as they want and don't be surprised when your bottom line is zero.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I had something happen to me a couple of years ago and about a month before Christmas. I was showing one of my friends some dresses I had knitted for my youngest granddaughters American Doll when some lady behind me "told" me that she wanted me to make her a couple of dresses for her daughter's doll. So I told her that I had spent 8 hours on each dress, panties and shoes so at $ 10.00 per hour it would be 80.00 plus the cost of the yarn. She looked dazed!!! Oh, she thought they would cost no more that maybe $5.00 the nerve!!!! Yup people do not want to pay for your time. Well that shut her up.


SAMkewel said:


> Not only do I agree, but I wonder why, at a time when everything else is increasing in price, even some crafters want everything handed to them for free. I've been poor, and I've been not poor, so I see both sides of it, but I've never been one to want to leech off the livelihood of anyone else. What a heck of a world we live in.


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## Grandmaknitstoo (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow! I read through 8 pages of comments and I can relate to a lot of what has been said. However, I have enjoyed posting free patterns here and they have been well recieved. I don't always give away my designs , however. I have certain patterns that would like to sell and I plan to do so. My biggest gripe is when I buy a pattern 
I expect it to be foolproof. Last spring I purchased a pattern on etsy, ( I wanted it for myself) it was a pretty cute hat and I couldn't look at it and figure out the stitches. I drooled over that that for weeks, but it was for a finished product. So in desperation I scrolled down to the fine print and found she had given credit to the designer and added the link to the pattern.Bingo purchased. So, I made one for my sister and sent it to her. It was a little tight. So I got an email asking for a review. I stated The pattern was pricey(7.00)and the instructions weren't clear. I got a response asking what part of the pattern was too Hard! I explained that I had over 40 years of experience at crochet and that I had never met A pattern that I couldn't work.The language, terminology, was flawed. I told her how to reword that part and she thanked me and rewrote the pattern, sending me a new copy free. Only thing is, I didn't tell her everything. For that service she would have to pay me. I finally had to rewrite part of the pattern to get my size correct for my hat.So moral to the story is you buy it it's yours. Buyer beware!


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## susan heierman (Sep 13, 2012)

If I like a pattern, I buy it. I figure the designer has put a lot of time and effort into the pattern. I could never be a pattern designer, and I want those who have the talent to do so to keep creating for people like me.


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## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

Sorry, that seems to be the way of things. I hadn't sewed for 25 years, then went looking thru the catalogs at JoAnn's and couldn't believe the dress prices. It is gettiing so it really does NOT pay to make an outfit these days, the stores are selling them for less.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

susan heierman said:


> If I like a pattern, I buy it. I figure the designer has put a lot of time and effort into the pattern. I could never be a pattern designer, and I want those who have the talent to do so to keep creating for people like me.


I could never be a designer, either. I might occasionally modify a bit of someone else's pattern for my own use, but I am simply not motivated to learn designing. Kudos to those who are, I say. If they choose to give their patterns away, that's fine, and if they need the income from selling them, that's fine, too. Being free isn't the deciding factor for me because if I'm going to do the work of knitting/crocheting, I want what I want and I'm willing to play by the rules to get it.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Karena said:


> Sorry, that seems to be the way of things. I hadn't sewed for 25 years, then went looking thru the catalogs at JoAnn's and couldn't believe the dress prices. It is gettiing so it really does NOT pay to make an outfit these days, the stores are selling them for less.


I used to earn my living as a seamstress, but that was many years ago. I recently went into a JoAnn to look at fabric for curtains. It was on sale. I was flabbergasted at how much prices have gone up per yard, and there is no way I can afford to make what I want when I consider my time as well. However, I wouldn't think of asking them to give it to me :~).


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## MrsBearstalker (Aug 11, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


Everyone needs more income to meet the increasing prices of everything we require. However, I would certainly agree that I'd pay more for a printed pattern that someone would "snail mail" to me than I would for a download. Our printer is less than great and we are perpetually out of the colors of ink and I resent paying for a pattern then having to buy the paper and ink with which to print it.


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## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

AND, the ink for my printer doubled in price recently & stores like Wal-Mart & Target no longer carry it. The only place I can get it is Office Max & Staples. The reason I was given? "It's old". My printer is less than 5 years old! I guess that's how they get you to buy another one when the one I have is perfectly good, still works well, etc.


jemima said:


> I come to the conclusion that down loading worked out cheaper but you have paper and ink to supply to be able to print.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

MrsBearstalker said:


> Everyone needs more income to meet the increasing prices of everything we require. However, I would certainly agree that I'd pay more for a printed pattern that someone would "snail mail" to me than I would for a download. Our printer is less than great and we are perpetually out of the colors of ink and I resent paying for a pattern then having to buy the paper and ink with which to print it.


We all make our own choices according to our personal desires. I don't resent the paper and ink I use for a downloaded pattern because I edit what I print to exclude pages that have no new information, usually the last page. I assume the pattern is copyrighted so I don't need to print out that information. I may omit the first page if it is a picture only. I may downsize the pattern so it uses fewer pages. If I have a choice between snail mail and downloading, I will pick snail mail if I'm in no hurry or downloading if I want it immediately. Everyone needs to determine for themselves how much their wants are worth.


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## CathyAnn (May 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I could never be a designer, either. I might occasionally modify a bit of someone else's pattern for my own use, but I am simply not motivated to learn designing. Kudos to those who are, I say. If they choose to give their patterns away, that's fine, and if they need the income from selling them, that's fine, too. Being free isn't the deciding factor for me because if I'm going to do the work of knitting/crocheting, I want what I want and I'm willing to play by the rules to get it.


My exact sentiments! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Pocahontas (Apr 15, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> Not only do I agree, but I wonder why, at a time when everything else is increasing in price, even some crafters want everything handed to them for free. I've been poor, and I've been not poor, so I see both sides of it, but I've never been one to want to leech off the livelihood of anyone else. What a heck of a world we live in.


I've read all your replies and I like the way you think. :thumbup:


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## sherimorphis (Oct 11, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


.......................
I agree and especially when you spend a lot of money on a pattern and see flaws in the design and I start re-designing....I just got a wonderful pattern as a gift, $15 my friend paid, and the poncho cast on makes that neckline so fragile that I tore it out and redid with double strands of yarn to make the neckline more durable. Afterall, a poncho's weight is on those shoulders and that neckline so $15....I think a bit high. Sheri


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

Bingo, MG! You hit the nail on the head. I'm a designer and sell both print and download patterns. I pay to have my patterns printed on high quality glossy 80 lb. paper. The cost for printing the pattern runs $1-$1.50 depending the number of pages and the amount of color. To list a pattern on one of the sites for download costs about the same per copy. Etsy charges 20 cents to post the pattern, Ravelry charges a % of the total sales on a sliding scale and Pay Pal also charges a % of the total sale with extra fees for international exchange rates, credit cards charge and even higher rate. Either way I'm out the same amount of money per pattern, the only difference is that with downloadable PDF's I don't have money tied up in unsold pattern inventory.



MG said:


> I believe it is not the actual cost of the pattern (electronic or paper) that accounts for the price of the pattern, although that is a tiny portion of the total. It is the cost of the designer's time. This is what they do for a living, although I'm guessing most make less than minimum wage when you consider the hours they invest in a design. If they reach a certain level of popularity, then they can begin to do workshops, write books, lecture, etc. and may start making what most of us would consider a living wage.
> 
> I know several designers and it was a real eye opener from me when we asked them how they were paid for publishing patterns. We learned that they may spend 3-6 months working on a design, knitting, tearing out, re-knitting ad nauseam until they have a workable test. That pattern is then test knit. Based on feed back from test knitters, the designer goes back to the drawing board to revise the pattern and test knit again.
> 
> ...


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

I agree with patocenizo. Been knitting for many years and I am always amazed at how these designers come up with such intricate patterns that I can tell were labor intensive. I'm on a fixed income and I don't mind paying a reasonable price (6.00 max for my budget) if the pattern is unique and it's one I really want to make. Also, it depends on what the reviews say about how the pattern is written. On the other hand, there are many beautiful intricate patterns out there for free. But if the pattern is free, I don't feel I have a right to complain if the pattern is not well written. I just appreciate the fact that they're willing to share it.

Awhile back, I saw a pattern on Ravelry (can't remember what it was) and the price was $37! I just about bounced off my chair. It might have been a typo, but I doubt it.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

Patocenizo: I agree with you!


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


This is a good question and pops into our heads when also looking at the prices of yarn. Inflation for one and secondly those designers that are really talented and put a lot of work into their patterns need to pay for their time and materials. In the past designers were employed by large companies and manufacturer's of yarn would put out free single patterns, leaflets and magazines to entice people to buy their yarns. It's never as simple as we think unless we have been there. I for one have had my own businesses, moved on and tried something else. It takes a lot to be successful.

Free patterns, and I would use these too, can be tricky, not fully informational and you may need to come here (KP) to define just how and what to do. Many free patterns are usually written years after a garment or item was made and memory fails, therefore, the written pattern is not complete or "fresh from the needles".

If you need more reasons, it's a marketing rule: "whatever the market will bear", in other words they have buyers who will pay the price!

We don't all drive BMW's either.


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

CuriousKitty said:


> My only gripe is when you do purchase a pattern (in good faith), start working only to find problems, after trying on your own to work it out (sometimes brain fog gets in the way!), contacting the 'designer' only to be blown off or getting a rude response without results...IF you get any response at all. Otherwise, I'm more than happy to pay for someone's wonderful work and creativity, if possible! Kudos to all the MANY really good designers! Hopefully Karma will catch up with the shysters and pattern thieves!


A good designer who cares about the quality of their work will get back to you. Many times the problem is a "brain fog" on the knitters side. Occasionally, there is a problem with a pattern, so don't be afraid to contact the designer. An error can't be corrected if we don't know the error exists. Sometimes all the test knitting in the world doesn't catch a typo.

:lol: :lol:


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## CuriousKitty (Dec 19, 2013)

Cathy B said:


> A good designer who cares about the quality of their work will get back to you. Many times the problem is a "brain fog" on the knitters side. Occasionally, there is a problem with a pattern, so don't be afraid to contact the designer. An error can't be corrected if we don't know the error exists. Sometimes all the test knitting in the world doesn't catch a typo.
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Thank you! I know what you're saying (and the brain fog's mine :roll: ), but I'm wondering if some of them have 'borrowed' the pattern, but then don't know squat as they haven't worked it up. I truly appreciate the ones that have gotten back to me, and don't expect it immediately, as they have a life - not to mention the time and energy that went into the creation...as someone else said, it's not done when the pattern's out! Like anything, you can't 'fix' it without communication!


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

jbandsma said:


> If I really, really want a pattern, I'm willing to pay the price for it. One I'm working on now? Pattern cost me $46 and change. It was worth it.


I love that we, nowadays, have the option of buying a single pattern from an independent designer, if we want to. But, $46.00? Are you meaning a book or a single pattern? What is this expensive pattern? Just curious.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

jbandsma said:


> If I really, really want a pattern, I'm willing to pay the price for it. One I'm working on now? Pattern cost me $46 and change. It was worth it.


The Princess Shawl?
Princess Shawl Booklet £20.00 (24 pages).
http://www.heirloom-knitting.co.uk/projects11.html

Pictures and pattern info - http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/the-princess-shawl


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

blavell said:


> AND, the ink for my printer doubled in price recently & stores like Wal-Mart & Target no longer carry it. The only place I can get it is Office Max & Staples. The reason I was given? "It's old". My printer is less than 5 years old! I guess that's how they get you to buy another one when the one I have is perfectly good, still works well, etc.


There are companies brick&mortar as well as on line that refill your ink cartridges at half the price, actually that is what happens when you "recycle" your old one. Also, if you check out ebay, you can buy ink and fill your own--there are videos on Youtube with full instructions. And yes the charges for ink is astronomical but then there also are so many sizes and manufacturers of printers who defy anything near a "standard" size or ink requirements--what happened to those days??humm? Since your printer is old anyway, you won't be "violating" a warranty--try filling your own.


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> The Princess Shawl?
> Princess Shawl Booklet £20.00 (24 pages).
> http://www.heirloom-knitting.co.uk/projects11.html
> 
> Pictures and pattern info - http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/the-princess-shawl


Wow, this is a work of art and the cost of the pattern doesn't begin to cover the time it took to create this shawl.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Ask4j said:


> Wow, this is a work of art and the cost of the pattern doesn't begin to cover the time it took to create this shawl.


It is indeed beautiful!
I certainly would pay that cost for pattern booklet and shipping.


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## Crochetnknit (Apr 10, 2013)

justinjared said:


> i agree with you. I cannot afford a 6-10.00 pattern and yarn. I look for cheaper patterns and free. I see even on this site people charge 3-5$ for an old pattern with a regular price tag at 1$. just my opinion.


That old price of $1 adjusted for today's money is the $3-$5 of today.

When my father came out of the service during WWII, he was earning $40 and said that they were "living well". In 1971 when we bought our first house, our mortgage was $300/mo on an income of $12,000/yr. In today's world, that equates to a mortgage of 1,756.65 and $70,266/ yr in income!!!!


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

justinjared said:


> i agree with you. I cannot afford a 6-10.00 pattern and yarn. I look for cheaper patterns and free. I see even on this site people charge 3-5$ for an old pattern with a regular price tag at 1$. just my opinion.


and how much do you think we should sell those patterns for? My pattern prices include shipping.

A lot of free patterns have mistakes, and we see posts every day from people asking questions about the patterns. I know there can be mistakes in any pattern but most of the purchased patterns have been tested by more than one person and the changes have either been noted on the pattern or an erratta published.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

Now,that is really over the top but if you have to have it, then ask Santa Claus for it !!! There are always birthdays too!


galaxycraft said:


> The Princess Shawl?
> Princess Shawl Booklet £20.00 (24 pages).
> http://www.heirloom-knitting.co.uk/projects11.html
> 
> Pictures and pattern info - http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/the-princess-shawl


 :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

justinjared said:


> i agree with you. I cannot afford a 6-10.00 pattern and yarn. I look for cheaper patterns and free. I see even on this site people charge 3-5$ for an old pattern with a regular price tag at 1$. just my opinion.


So are you saying that people who are selling off their excess stash of older patterns/books/booklets only charge for the original price -
even if that price was 50 cents?
What about a little compensation to the owner for keeping it in such good condition?

Shipping materials and stiff paper boards are used some times for packaging to keep them safe.
Then the final actual postage due to mail; whether included in the price or separate.


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## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

The cost of living is higher so everything is getting more expensive.
If a pattern is too pricy I won't buy it, but I don't expect them to be less than reasonable. There are so many free patterns, I usually buy only those I can't find free, but I would be more than willing to pay for many that are available for free. I seldom buy pricy books put out by yarn sellers, but there are always exceptions to my own rules.
I bought an online knitting class to get a scarf pattern, and don't regret it, so I guess I'll buy just about anything if I really, really like it.
The photo of my Knit Lab scarf by Stefanie Japel isn't the best example of the pattern but I'm happy with it and plan on many more for Christmas gifts.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I guess some will have a stroke if I list my copy of Heirloom Knitting. I see it on Amazon.ca with a price of over $900 which is ridiculous


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

chickkie said:


> I guess some will have a stroke if I list my copy of Heirloom Knitting. I see it on Amazon.ca with a price of over $900 which is ridiculous


Here is one on E-Bay for 130$
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heirloom-Knitting-Shetland-Lace-Knitters-Pattern-and-Workbook-HTF-Rare-/271552814317?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f39cf1ced

IMO - only collectors would pay such a high price of 900$. (For any book)
I am not one of them. :lol: 
I want my books as working editions.


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

Thank you so much. I appreciate your writing that.



patocenizo said:


> I have bought one from you and I have had no qualms about paying for yours and other designers that I have met through this forum. You deserve to be payed for all your hard work and creativity! Keep at it, Southern Girl!


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Here is one on E-Bay for 130$
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heirloom-Knitting-Shetland-Lace-Knitters-Pattern-and-Workbook-HTF-Rare-/271552814317?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3f39cf1ced
> 
> IMO - only collectors would pay such a high price of 900$. (For any book)
> ...


I wonder if any of those books actually sell!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

chickkie said:


> I wonder if any of those books actually sell!


I really don't think so.
Just out of curiosity last year, I monitored a seller with a very high price.
Kept re-listing it for the whole year. Never sold.
Person got a rude awakening - don't believe your friends to list such a high price, nor be greedy.

For the book you have - list price of £30.00 (50USD approx) - is fair (then the postage).
I believe prices should reflect the overall condition of the book such as this.


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> So are you saying that people who are selling off their excess stash of older patterns/books/booklets only charge for the original price -
> even if that price was 50 cents?
> What about a little compensation to the owner for keeping it in such good condition?
> 
> ...


Vintage patterns are out of print and you can price it at whatever price someone will pay--free enterprise. Each of us has our own hangups, many times lack of money, but then we cannot possible need every pattern out there so the price would help narrow it down. Beside, boredom can set in just following someone else's ideas,so why not, just for a lark, design your own next project like a shopping bag made out of grocery store plastic bags--there are many ways of doing it but more can always be invented. Hey the next topic should be "my first design project"! It could be fun!


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## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

disgo said:


> Standard business practice in our capitalistic society. You learn that in business school. Only thing that has gone down are snack food/pop and large big screen TVs to get the poor to buy as well. Like the power dam that went in near my hometown where the residents were promised cheaper power rates due to the inconvenience it caused--never happened since Bonneville took over right after and sent the power to Las Vegas and LA where they raked in huge profits.
> 
> The only other example is Walmart's business plan where most workers are part time/no benefits that collect government assistance while "working"--then Walmart benefits even more with those poor buying which gives Walmart a large percentage of their profits!


I agree with you all the way. Walmart is really bad in using their employees to make a big profit. I for one refuse to shop there.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Pocahontas said:


> I've read all your replies and I like the way you think. :thumbup:


Thank you :~).


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## Cdambro (Dec 30, 2013)

SouthernGirl said:


> If there is a pattern that I like, I will gladly pay for it. A lot of time and effort goes into designing.


Your designs are beautiful and you obviously put a lot of time into them.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Ask4j said:


> There are companies brick&mortar as well as on line that refill your ink cartridges at half the price, actually that is what happens when you "recycle" your old one. Also, if you check out ebay, you can buy ink and fill your own--there are videos on Youtube with full instructions. And yes the charges for ink is astronomical but then there also are so many sizes and manufacturers of printers who defy anything near a "standard" size or ink requirements--what happened to those days??humm? Since your printer is old anyway, you won't be "violating" a warranty--try filling your own.


I agree. I can't remember any time that I have used the printer manufacturer's ink except for the tiny starter cartridges that come with the printer when it's new. There are a number of companies online that do an excellent job of refilling and reselling ink cartridges for far less than the manufacturer's brand name cartridges. Since I've never had a warranty problem in 23+ years at home and I've used off-brand refills since they came out, I'm not concerned about using them immediately. I've had better experiences with my online purchases than I've had with the local business that refills used cartridges, but we have only one place that does that in this small city so I can't speak of all such businesses.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> So are you saying that people who are selling off their excess stash of older patterns/books/booklets only charge for the original price -
> even if that price was 50 cents?
> What about a little compensation to the owner for keeping it in such good condition?
> 
> ...


That person is entitled to his/her opinion, but I like your view of reality better :~D!


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## Karenno1 (Mar 17, 2014)

Feisty replies , when all said and done if the designers of patterns feels the price is justified then fair play .....if the customer dosent and feels it's too higher price and is not willing to pay fair play to them too .... Everyone is entitled to their say ....no need for sarcastic remarks


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## Nancy S. (Jul 2, 2013)

I understand that I am paying for a person's skill & knowledge when buying a pattern, but if the market does not want to pay $10+ for a pattern then the market or buyers will force the pattern to reduce its price.

I will not pay more than $5 for a pattern no matter if I love it or not. I can't afford to pay more than $5 for a pattern. I will wait until the price comes down.


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## 33141 (Aug 24, 2011)

blavell said:


> AND, the ink for my printer doubled in price recently & stores like Wal-Mart & Target no longer carry it. The only place I can get it is Office Max & Staples. The reason I was given? "It's old". My printer is less than 5 years old! I guess that's how they get you to buy another one when the one I have is perfectly good, still works well, etc.


You might want to try having yours refilled somewhere like Costco or order new ones on-line.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

MG said:


> You might want to try having yours refilled somewhere like Costco or order new ones on-line.


Those of you who have a Costco are very fortunate. The nearest one to me is a three-hour drive one way. While many others don't like paying for a pattern, I avoid buying gasoline except for necessities, of course.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

and not all Costco's have that service


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## ChristmasTree (Nov 28, 2011)

I understand that there is a lot of work involved in making patterns. I also think that if the price is reasonable they will sell more. For instance, take the FLK heel sock pattern. It's a great pattern, I hear about it often, and because it's only $1.00 I don't think people would hesitate to buy it if they have the need. What about the Wingspan shawl. It was a free pattern and now it's not. Everyone and their sister made this shawl. I wonder if the popularity has changed now that it's not free? 
I have purchased patterns and have many that I still haven't used, but they were not over $7.00. I also have sewing patterns that I haven't used but that's another topic  I guess pricing is a tricky thing. If you are making your living writing patterns (or knitting and crocheting items) the prices will reflect that, if you are selling things so you can pay for more supplies the price might be less. There are costs associated with selling things no matter how you do it unless people are knocking at your door. It's great to be able to make money doing something you love, but not always possible.


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## GemsByGranny (Dec 7, 2012)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


I don't know, but I wonder if they are desperately trying to make some money as they compete against the free patterns available. I know I pay for as few patterns as I can.


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## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

I guess they need to make a living like everyone else does. I know, it's a shame all things are so high. A person gets a raise and every one in sight wants their share right out of the middle.


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## DebraSundhausen (Jan 28, 2011)

What little money that I have made from designing something is unreal. I have answered any questions that any one has asked about my patterns. I did have a little trouble getting back to aynone when my computer bit the dust. When I posted the pattern for free all I got was a headache from all the people who joined in on wanting a quick answer for nothing. The person who originally asked for an old pattern that I had never seen in my life. What I came up with she was very happy, even though I had to work out the kinks. I made 3 of the afghans before everything worked out perfect, I thought. The pattern that I posted on here has mistakes that I couldn't correct, because Admin won't take the incorrect patterns down. So any one finding these patterns are still asking for help, which I will still give freely.
I am working on another pattern to post. So far it has been 4 months in the making and I want to crochet it one more time before posting it. I now do my own testing of my patterns. Nothing that I have made is done easily, starting with a graph of what I want to do, to the fininshed product. I do understand about those who are short on money and don't want to spend the money, but with the complaints far outway someone who appreciates the hard work that went in to getting something made. If you can't afford the small price that most items are being charged for the pattern then don't buy it but quit complaining about something that you are going to buy and turn around make it and sell it to someone else. This whole conversation has gotten out of control.


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## aussieHC (Oct 21, 2013)

disgo said:


> Standard business practice in our capitalistic society. You learn that in business school. Only thing that has gone down are snack food/pop and large big screen TVs to get the poor to buy as well. Like the power dam that went in near my hometown where the residents were promised cheaper power rates due to the inconvenience it caused--never happened since Bonneville took over right after and sent the power to Las Vegas and LA where they raked in huge profits.
> 
> The only other example is Walmart's business plan where most workers are part time/no benefits that collect government assistance while "working"--then Walmart benefits even more with those poor buying which gives Walmart a large percentage of their profits!


And no doubt Walmart does what all the stores in Australia are doing - get their supplies from China - where they earn $200 - $400 a month - I don't know about you, but I can't live on that in Australia !


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## Gweneth 1946 (May 20, 2012)

That is the same as sewing patterns. Patterns were anywhere from a dollar three dollars for a dress pattern and there was always two to three outfits in it. Now the starting price is twelve dollars and up. I wait till the material store has a sale, buy one and regular price and get two free. The companies will all say its the cost of the materials and employee salarys and the argument can go on and on. :-(


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## belka453 (Mar 21, 2011)

CindysKnitN said:


> I don't understand why in this age of electronic downloads why the prices per pattern keep going up. I would think that designers print fewer hard copies, if at all, so their overall expense is less. So what accounts for the continued higher prices? Seems like patterns used to be $3-5 now they seem start at $6 and I've seen one single pattern as high as $20.00. I'm also thinking if the prices were lower they'd sell more copies. I try to look for free ones or discounted ones but it still boggles my mind that prices are increases. Just Saying.


I think if you keep buying higher prices they will want more, so they increase again. What is happening gas is higher and food etc. And us keep buying it accepting and paying for prices. We the people middle class will be poorer and low income of course real needy cause, illnesses etc. will starve more so sad that we keep buying the higher prices where are we going to end? If everyone put fair prices, and not keep increasing to make more. We would not be where we are now today and getting worth. That is my opinion. So Keep buying higher kitting pattern and of course it will go higher.

Have you notice that when you are going to buy water bottle now cost up to $1.50 People is just water we keep buying it for that price it will increase. If we keep accepting the companies excuses we will be step on.


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## Chemchic (Dec 16, 2012)

I was thinking the same, and no, as others mentioned, I'm not trying to get something for nothing. I design patterns and it's an immense amount of detail work (if it's more than a garter rectangle for a pattern!).

I wonder why the prices are so high to do a pdf download, when a designer's printing/mailing costs are gone. I would love to hear from an experienced person in this.


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## belka453 (Mar 21, 2011)

Chemchic said:


> I was thinking the same, and no, as others mentioned, I'm not trying to get something for nothing. I design patterns and it's an immense amount of detail work (if it's more than a garter rectangle for a pattern!).
> 
> I wonder why the prices are so high to do a pdf download, when a designer's printing/mailing costs are gone. I would love to hear from an experienced person in this.


i am not saying to sell but be fair that is all.


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## KnitQuiltBeader (Nov 30, 2011)

What a great example of what's happened, Crochetnknit. The price of everything goes up in the long run. That's just basic economics. We're not going to change that.

I pay for some patterns and get some free ones. I have many, many more patterns than I'll ever be able to knit in my remaining lifetime. But if I really love a pattern I am willing to pay for it, just like I do for anything else in my life.

Our first house was the price of your 1971 house and my aerospace engineer husband was earning $12,000/year. That brought back many happy memories. Thank you for the eye-opener.



Crochetnknit said:


> That old price of $1 adjusted for today's money is the $3-$5 of today.
> 
> When my father came out of the service during WWII, he was earning $40 and said that they were "living well". In 1971 when we bought our first house, our mortgage was $300/mo on an income of $12,000/yr. In today's world, that equates to a mortgage of 1,756.65 and $70,266/ yr in income!!!!


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

Chemchic said:


> I was thinking the same, and no, as others mentioned, I'm not trying to get something for nothing. I design patterns and it's an immense amount of detail work (if it's more than a garter rectangle for a pattern!).
> 
> I wonder why the prices are so high to do a pdf download, when a designer's printing/mailing costs are gone. I would love to hear from an experienced person in this.


Several people have already answered this question earlier in the thread.

But to summarize. printing costs may be gone, but listing a pattern on the internet costs something almost everywhere you list it. Whatever method is used to pay (such as PayPal) charges for the transaction. If you have your own website, there are charges for that.

In addition, money keeps going down in value. I've shopped for 7-1/2 years at the same grocery store, and I can tell you that a lot of the items I buy cost half as much when I started shopping there. Leaving a pattern at the same price means the cost of it, and the reward for the designer is going down all the time. That's why you can't make a living at minimum wage anymore. By not constantly raising it, the buying power has gone down.


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## Ms Sue P (Mar 19, 2011)

I refuse to pay a high price for a pattern when I have to download it and use my own ink and paper to print it out. I feel that if they want the high prices they should be providing the hard copies.


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## Maxine1944 (Jun 7, 2012)

As the cost of living rises, all producers must raise their prices. Pattern designers, too, must eat, pay electricity bills, buy gas, etc.


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I will always buy paper patterns especially if I really want to knit it. I could start a library with my collection, but still buy more and more patterns. 

The thing I hate is when someone is trying to make money on ebay by trying to photocopy original patterns and then selling them even though there is a copyright on the actual pattern. I dobbed someone in on ebay because I had the pattern and it cost my mum 1/- sterling in England in the 70's. She didn't advertise it was a copy nor original but when I put in a complaint about it not being an original she raised the cost of her illegel sales.


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## Tashi (Aug 12, 2011)

I do not mind paying for the creative inspiration, the persistence to write out a pattern and to check it thoroughly. It takes a lot of time and inspiration. Yes patterns are a little more, but, then choose more carefully so you really get the pattern you want. Intellectual property needs to be respected, nothing to do with creating unlimited copies. I appreciate a well written and thought out pattern. I certainly do not have the talent for it. The process on Ravelry is much better then buying very expensive books where maybe only one pattern suits. That s not to say I don't buy books as well.

Thanks to the creative souls who share their patterns. We need to pay them as well as admire them.


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## emmas mom (May 15, 2013)

disgo said:


> Standard business practice in our capitalistic society. You learn that in business school. Only thing that has gone down are snack food/pop and large big screen TVs to get the poor to buy as well. Like the power dam that went in near my hometown where the residents were promised cheaper power rates due to the inconvenience it caused--never happened since Bonneville took over right after and sent the power to Las Vegas and LA where they raked in huge profits.
> 
> The only other example is Walmart's business plan where most workers are part time/no benefits that collect government assistance while "working"--then Walmart benefits even more
> with those poor buying which gives Walmart a large percentage of their profits!


Not to mention that Walmart targets small businesses in the areas they move into, driving them out of business with lower prices than these small business can charge and still stay in business. This happened in Jasper Ga. There are residents that remain true to the small town atmosphere they were seeking when they moved there and support the local businees when possible.


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

I am a big fan of free patterns and appreciate those who offer them. But I totally understand why someone who designed a pattern would want to get a fair price for it. After all, if you buy a book on knitting, or a knitting magazine or even get a free pattern on a ball of yarn, you are paying for the patterns. I pick and choose carefully when I do decide to pay for a pattern because I am not a big fan of buying online. What I do NOT appreciate is when I purchase a pattern from a designer--online or hardcopy--and it is full of incomprehensible instructions and/or mistakes. I realize it happens in many patterns, even when test-knitted--and sometimes the designers or the magazines or whatever do post errata, but it is still frustrating. There is another good thing about Ravelry--if you find something that seems wrong in something you are knitting, look at the comments posted by others knitting the same project. Sometimes you discover they have found the problem too and they can lead you to a solution. Sometimes!


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## chinalake66 (Sep 21, 2013)

Recently trying to design a new pattern - and write it down as I went - I discovered the difficulty in actually developing a pattern. The many trials and errors and tinking and erasing...arrggghhh. It was a considerable time investment. It gave me a whole new appreciation for designers and their talents to bring challenging new patterns to us. Without their fresh ideas and ability to articulate them in new patterns, I may not be as inspired to knit as I am! Bless them all - I swear I will never complain about pattern prices again!


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

We need to think of pattern designers as people with jobs. They aren't doing it just for enjoyment. They are doing it so they can make money. No harm in that. I, for one, couldn't design anything more complicated that a rectangular tank top, so if I see a pattern I really love--and especially if I am familiar with the designer's work--I am happy to pay for it. For anyone who prefers not to purchase them, there are wonderful sites out there with scads of free patterns--which I also take advantage of. There is no need ever for anyone not to find a pattern to love.


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## aussieHC (Oct 21, 2013)

mavisb said:


> I will always buy paper patterns especially if I really want to knit it. I could start a library with my collection, but still buy more and more patterns.
> 
> The thing I hate is when someone is trying to make money on ebay by trying to photocopy original patterns and then selling them even though there is a copyright on the actual pattern. I dobbed someone in on ebay because I had the pattern and it cost my mum 1/- sterling in England in the 70's. She didn't advertise it was a copy nor original but when I put in a complaint about it not being an original she raised the cost of her illegel sales.


A pattern from the 70's ? How far do we take 'copyright' on a shape of a garment. When I did pattern drafting back in the 80's there were basic shapes and variations that were taught. With knitting there is the basic fitted shape, raglans, saddle shoulder, drop shoulder etc. Back in the 80's the dolman was fashionable. So, who is the original 'designer' in these cases that should get credit ? There are always basic garment shapes that can be varied, so how far does one take this ?


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

Like most things, you see the product and the price. Your choice. I find that the more expensive patterns are beyond my ability anyway.


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## nancy787 (Jul 18, 2014)

barbdpayne said:


> I am a big fan of free patterns and appreciate those who offer them. But I totally understand why someone who designed a pattern would want to get a fair price for it. After all, if you buy a book on knitting, or a knitting magazine or even get a free pattern on a ball of yarn, you are paying for the patterns. I pick and choose carefully when I do decide to pay for a pattern because I am not a big fan of buying online. What I do NOT appreciate is when I purchase a pattern from a designer--online or hardcopy--and it is full of incomprehensible instructions and/or mistakes. I realize it happens in many patterns, even when test-knitted--and sometimes the designers or the magazines or whatever do post errata, but it is still frustrating. There is another good thing about Ravelry--if you find something that seems wrong in something you are knitting, look at the comments posted by others knitting the same project. Sometimes you discover they have found the problem too and they can lead you to a solution. Sometimes!


This is why I don't buy patterns online. I want to read the instructions to be sure I am capable of actually making the item. I got bit once when the details said "knit flat" and it was actually in the round. I have no plans of learning that skill at this time, so just lost out. Complaining did no good. I buy books and magazines for patterns, and get free on line. As has been said many times here, too many patterns, too little time.


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## barbdpayne (Jan 24, 2011)

I love when I can get free patterns and I take full advantage, but they, as well as very expensive patterns, often have errors in them. So frustrating. Ravelry is definitely a good place to check to see if other knitters have noticed the errors and if anyone has found a solution or where to locate the errata. I just got an email from the LoveKnitting site (which is taking over Yarnmarket) and they have over 100 free patterns offered. Many of the yarn companies send out emails weekly with free patterns and almost all the yarn companies websites offer at least a few freebies. We are living in great times for knitters and crocheters with such an abundance of choices for patterns and for great yarns.


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## grannygranny (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't buy too many patterns due to financial constraints but if I find one I REALLY love I buy it. I'm a decent knitter and adept at several other handcrafts as well but haven't the skill or patience to design patterns. Some of these designers are amazing and the patterns well worth the price.


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