# Kl,Pl or K2,P2



## Miss Bettie (Dec 10, 2011)

Can anyone tell me which is more stretchy?


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## stotter (Apr 8, 2012)

K2 P2 seems stretchier to me.


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## jgarrett28 (May 6, 2012)

me too! k2p2!!!


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

How many have you had to CO? I've even tried 3 & 3 or 4 & 4...or some variant. Depends on the divisible amount you have for the CO.

If it is just a baby sock:
30 can be either 1 & 1, 2 & 1, or 3 & 3 (didn't think about that center one...next pair!) 1st 2 would work best. The closer you have to a base 6 or 12 you can experiment with the higher count ribbing. Yes, MUCH stretchier with the deeper count ribbing!


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Miss Bettie said:


> Can anyone tell me which is more stretchy?


The K1P1 is the stretchiest one of all the ribbing. The stretch rule of thumb: The more frequent the stitches change between knit and purl, the greater the stretch.

The single rib of K1P1 has the most alternating stitch changes between stitches than the double rib of K2P2 and the triple rib of K3P3 has the least number of changes between knit and purl and so is the least stretchy of them all. This is true because even though the number of stitches cast on might be the same you will make more stitch changes and use more yarn.


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

kaixixang said:


> How many have you had to CO? I've even tried 3 & 3 or 4 & 4...or some variant. Depends on the divisible amount you have for the CO.
> 
> If it is just a baby sock:
> 30 can be either 1 & 1, 2 & 1, or 3 & 3 (didn't think about that center one...next pair!) 1st 2 would work best. The closer you have to a base 6 or 12 you can experiment with the higher count ribbing. Yes, MUCH stretchier with the deeper count ribbing!


No. The stretch comes in because of the amount of changes done in the stitch work. The more times you alternate between knit and purl, the greater the amount of stretch you get.

The stretchiest ribbing you can do for socks is a K1P1 because you alternate the type of stitch with every stitch you do. A cast on of 30 stitches and joined in the round means you alternate your stitch pattern 30 times. A 2x2 rib means you are alternating your stitch pattern only 15 times. I knit socks!


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

True...but rarely do I have to use the 3 & 3. Depends on the main pattern stitch...looks good to have the 3 & 3 followed by a K3, faggot3 [(O, P2) on first, (P2tog, O) on second] - can be reversed too. I deliberately made the knitting term lower case as I'm not talking social term here.



5mmdpns said:


> kaixixang said:
> 
> 
> > How many have you had to CO? I've even tried 3 & 3 or 4 & 4...or some variant. Depends on the divisible amount you have for the CO.
> ...


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

kaixixang said:


> True...but rarely do I have to use the 3 & 3. Depends on the main pattern stitch...looks good to have the 3 & 3 followed by a K3, faggot3 [(O, P2) on first, (P2tog, O) on second] - can be reversed too. I deliberately made the knitting term lower case as I'm not talking social term here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The appearance of what the ribbing looks like to fit the pattern, has no bearing on what the original poster was asking. The question being which rib pattern is the stretchiest -- the K1P1 or the K2P2. That is what I answered.


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## Yarngrandma (Jul 19, 2011)

k1p1 holds the shape best. k2p2 stretches out of shape more (is more relaxed)
I've done both for socks and really prefer k1p1 for that. but k2p2 for hats I think is better, unless you want a really snug fit for the hat. imho : )


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## bizzyknitter (May 10, 2011)

Yarngrandma said:


> k1p1 holds the shape best. k2p2 stretches out of shape more (is more relaxed)
> I've done both for socks and really prefer k1p1 for that. but k2p2 for hats I think is better, unless you want a really snug fit for the hat. imho : )


I agree.. :thumbup:


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

k1 p1 is the most stretchy. I prefer the look of k2 p2 but it's horses for courses. What are you knitting?


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## marilynann (Mar 23, 2011)

K2,P2 is stretchier and produces a reversible pattern useful for scarves


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

marilynann said:


> K2,P2 is stretchier and produces a reversible pattern useful for scarves


K1P1 is also reversible.

What I've found, is that both K1,P1 and K2,P2 are stretchy, but the K1,P1 relaxes back to a more snug or solid appearing fabric than the K2,P2, therefore it *appears* to have more stretch. The actual difference in stretchiness is negligible. Yes, I've swatched and measured, yes, the 1X1 does have a little more extension than the 2X2, but not enough to quibble about. For socks, I've personally found both to be adequate. For scarves, it is more appearance than function required. For other purposes, it is often a combination of function and appearance, and that is when the "fancy" or wide ribs come in - 3X3, 4X4, 2X3, 1X3, etc.


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## denisejh (May 20, 2011)

Miss Bettie-It's not so much which one is more stretchy but which one will RETAIN it's stretch. I learned from an Elizabeth Zimmerman video that the 2x2 rib is best. Both are fairly stretchy but the 1x1 rib will stretch out quickly while the 2x2 rib will retain it's elasticity for a longer time. She recommended using the 2x2 rib. Denise


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

denisejh said:


> Miss Bettie-It's not so much which one is more stretchy but which one will RETAIN it's stretch. I learned from an Elizabeth Zimmerman video that the 2x2 rib is best. Both are fairly stretchy but the 1x1 rib will stretch out quickly while the 2x2 rib will retain it's elasticity for a longer time. She recommended using the 2x2 rib. Denise


Yes, there is that factor but then it all depends on your yarn that you use too and what the purpose of the stretchiness is for. She wants to know which ribbing is the most stretchier of the two rib stitching. The answer of course is the 1x1 or K1P1.


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## susannahp (Nov 7, 2011)

Miss Bettie said:


> Can anyone tell me which is more stretchy?


k2p2 and its prettier to look at


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

I use the K1 P1 for ribbing, I believ this to be more stretchy.


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## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

k2 p2 is stretchier- however I once did a k3 p2 rib that weas really stretchy


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

Okay...I've kept quiet long enough. The different maths I've stated before still stand.

The ONLY reason I switched to the K & P ribbing is the count didn't balance out for both sides. I now CO DOUBLE the number I need plus one extra (for invisible join). The first row after I st first two st tog and PSSO is continued in st two tog in pattern until I get back to where the join thread is on my left again. From there I continue in pattern for the 1-3 inches for cuff, at least one repeat or two before short row heel, short row heel with first circular (should end up with 2 extra than the per side amount of 15 - for baby sock, example). Carefully move the loop on both sides of the heel side circular to the 'top' side circular. St 2 together in whatever st starts the topside pattern, continue in pattern until last two st are left, st last 2 st tog - this completes the end of the heel section.

From there you will be knitting plain with the first circular, and pattern with second circular till you get to about .5-1.5 inches from end of toe (allowing for total CO * 0.5) st count. Allow double the 5 st minimum that the heel needed = 10 st for the toe short row. Make sure that you also allow for the additional 2 of the per-side st that the heel had and move the two end st to the second circular. St 2 tog for beg and end 'pair' but knit plain between - unless doing feather-and-fan, do the last combo in purl work.

You can either 3-needle BO or P1 through back circular, K1 through front circular, PSSO - followed with either tapestry needle cleanup or small crochet hook thread tuck in or combo of both.

I agree with previous posters in this topic (including myself) that sometimes you have to allow for a smoother looking ribbing...the K, P ribbing doesn't always shrink down enough.

<G> I'll now get off my soap box and let y'all have your licks on my rant.


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## knitnanny (Feb 28, 2012)

I was told by the Yarn Harlot that k2, p2 hugs and clings better than K1, K2 especially when making socks.


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## rkr (Aug 15, 2012)

Yarngrandma said:


> k1p1 holds the shape best. k2p2 stretches out of shape more (is more relaxed)
> I've done both for socks and really prefer k1p1 for that. but k2p2 for hats I think is better, unless you want a really snug fit for the hat. imho : )


I also think that individual yarns will hold the stitches in place (tighter/more firmly) better. 
I.e., a 3-ply sock yarn with a nice twist will hold both K1 P1 & K2, P2 better than a single ply K1, P1 and K2, P2 any day.

Plus the needle size helps: using a slightly smaller needle size for than is called for in the pattern (with one of the very stretchy COs or BOs) will also give a 'springier' ribbing. 
This is pure Physics.

Choice of Yarn content must also be considered.... 
1 - Wool (and the individual sheep and other animal breeds make a huge difference!) will change the way the ribbing holds up over the synthetics. 
2 - Sport and DK will probably give better (tighter) ribbing than worsted or bulky.
There are so many things to be considered that there is no 'one' answer!


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## biloxipinto (Apr 8, 2011)

I need help!!!! can anyone tell me what kl and si mean? Please.. Ive been looking forever. I cant seem to find anything about those 2 stitches.


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

biloxipinto said:


> I need help!!!! can anyone tell me what kl and si mean? Please.. Ive been looking forever. I cant seem to find anything about those 2 stitches.


It is probably K1 or Knit one, and probably sl for slip (one stitch or a marker)


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## patnxtdr (Feb 5, 2018)

5mmdpns said:


> The K1P1 is the stretchiest one of all the ribbing. The stretch rule of thumb: The more frequent the stitches change between knit and purl, the greater the stretch.
> 
> The single rib of K1P1 has the most alternating stitch changes between stitches than the double rib of K2P2 and the triple rib of K3P3 has the least number of changes between knit and purl and so is the least stretchy of them all. This is true because even though the number of stitches cast on might be the same you will make more stitch changes and use more yarn.


That is all false reasoning. Might work in theory, but not in practicality. Try it and see for yourself!! (Always swatch and then you will know)


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## gulfcoastgal (Oct 23, 2012)

I like K1P1 for hats I have seen many times a baby hat w a large folded brim in k1p1 last many yrs through lower elemtary
The Klpl hats for adults fit many sizes and look good yr after yr and are crazy stretchy
The current beanie I have on my needles fits a four yr old and his 6’3” 200 lb dad


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