# magic loop-??????? WHY



## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

I can't think of any pattern I've knit in the round with Magic Loop that I couldn't have used dpns for, including fingerless mitts. I do love Magic Loop, and maybe someday you'll give it a try on an experimental basis, but we're all different, and you don't ever have to learn it if you'd rather not. I still go back to dpns once in a while just because I'm in the mood.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

PS if you ever do want to learn, maybe you're the type who would learn better if you were shown by another knitter (if you know one or have a yarn shop nearby). It's not as complicated as you think, but might look that way on a video.


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

thanks, but i think my problem is so complicated since i've never, ever used double pointed needles- never looked at a project that required this knowledge- think i'm doomed, thanks again, adelaide


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## jumbleburt (Mar 10, 2011)

There's no technique which is right for everyone, and don't let anyone tell you that you "must" use magic loop. If you are comfortable with DPNs, there shouldn't be any problem with using those for a pattern calling for magic loop. If you don't use DPNs or don't like them, using 2 circular needles should work fine too.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

If you mean you've only ever knit things flat, an awful lot of "in the round" projects can be knit without joining them, but you do have to account for adding selvedge stitches (in the round doesn't need them). I'll look on Ravelry, though, and see if there are patterns for fingerless mitts knit flat.


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

i am more of a dope than you imagine- don't know how to use dp needles, nor how to use or what it means to use two circulars- just trying to do the best with my limited technique knowledege but it seems to me that i should simply donate these random skeims, thanks, adelaide


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## tbforest (Feb 25, 2012)

Oh Dear....I've been doing this all wrong. :shock: 

Seriously, I do what you do, cast on in the method that works for me then set things up for Magic Loop. This can take me a few rows but it works. Now (out of curiouslity) I will need to go look at youtube to see the specific cast on for Magic Loop.

As far as the magic loop in the knitting part, it's a matter of pulling the cable between two stitches on opposite sides. The cable automatically wants to loop because of how the stitches hold it.


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

What is a Magic Loop,, how does it differ from circular needles? Sorry for the stupid question, but I really would like to know, have avoided patterns also that call for a Magic Loop. There is no yarn shop in the town I live in or any other kind of craft shop here so KP and youtube my only way of getting answers.

Thanks
Suzanne


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Here's a link to a bunch of patterns. I think they're knit flat but didn't investigate, so read each writeup to be sure (if there are any that take your fancy). http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#sort=best&craft=knitting&query=Fingerless flat


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


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## cindye6556 (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-125742-1.html

Go to above link and then down to workshop #10. It will teach you everything you need to know about magic loop.

This is another link for a tutorial on the subject.

http://www.knitpicks.com/wptutorials/magic-loop/

If you know how to knit you can learn to do magic loop


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

If you're able to knit in the round, you do not need to know Magic Loop. Curiosity question: how do you knit in the round? With a cabled set of needles equal to the circumference of the piece, or something I don't know about?


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

cindye6556 said:


> ...everything you need to know about magic loop.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## McOzzy72 (Jul 24, 2013)

Magic loop is really really easy. I just started knitting and I find it so simple.

the best tutorial I have found is on www.verypink.com

she is a great teacher


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

i've knit in the round when diameter doesn't seem to matter and is never indicated- sweaters, cowls- so i don't know why for fingerless gloves i can't simply, co. join and go??help if you can, thanks adelaide


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

thanks, went to the site but clearly it was not what you were referencing- this one was where the teacher spent time talking about her heel invention and since i'm ot making socks but just want to learn this technique found her patter quite annoying and didn't find the sock info useful- (suddeny she had a d.p. needle added to the mix) clearly i was not in right location- could you please be more specific and tell me how to get this excellent tutorial, thanks, adelaide


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

I have knitted for most of my very long life and never heard of or seen magic loop done until I joined KP. We got along just fine doing it the "old" way and I still do.


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## McOzzy72 (Jul 24, 2013)

here is the verypink.com magic loop


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## tvarnas (Apr 18, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


You definitely can do it this way. Just be sure to use a short cable. 11" or 12" would work, maybe even a 16" as long as your not making any that are teeny tiny.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Joy Marshall said:


> I have knitted for most of my very long life and never heard of or seen magic loop done until I joined KP. We got along just fine doing it the "old" way and I still do.


Yes, it's great that we have so many choices - old and new - and we can pick which one suits us best!


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## Mary JB (May 14, 2011)

Look up traveling loop. You only have one loop and it looks a little less intimidating.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ... why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern ...


There is nothing stopping you from beginning whichever way is more comfortable for you. There are NO knitting police!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

calisuzi said:


> What is a Magic Loop,, how does it differ from circular needles? Sorry for the stupid question, but I really would like to know, have avoided patterns also that call for a Magic Loop. There is no yarn shop in the town I live in or any other kind of craft shop here so KP and youtube my only way of getting answers.
> 
> Thanks
> Suzanne


A) The only stupid question is the one never asked.

B) In my opinion, 'Magic Loop' is what I use when I want to knit a small diameter item, don't have the right size double-pointed needles with me or the patience to wait until I'm home where all my dpns are, but do have a longish circular needle with a very flexible cable.

As to what it is, a brief search on Google or YouTube will find you many tutorials.


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you Jessica-Jean, appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. Will have to check out some of the tutorials. Have never used double pointed needles and sad to admit haven't mastered circulars yet so Magic Loop was way down on the list of 'to do's'.


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## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


Adelaide, I have been knitting for over 50 years now and I still don't knit with DPN or Circular needles. I used to try the circulars, but I became a "Twist and Shouter" with them so, don't use them any more. If the pattern calls for anything but straight needles, it is out of the question and I don't make it. I am not a great knitter to start with, but you put a pair of circular needles in my hands or something that I have to use 3 needles to do and I can make the biggest mess of that pattern that it even shames me! Now, I don't get enough oxygen to my brain, so, I just knit things that people won't be wearing, well, babies will wear it, but they don't know how to count so they don't know I have missed a stitch and added it back in then repair the dropped one with yarn to cover the error. I don't even know how to pick up dropped stitches. So don't feel bad or demean yourself. You can talk bad about me if you want to that is okay, just don't put yourself down. Okay?


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Do you enjoy knitting? That's all that matters!


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

I know that the "Cable needle" exists in at least 2 forms...but why spend the money when you have a matching size DPN (or smaller) to help maneuver the 1,2, or ??? loops in front/back for cable work? I have some free cable needle pieces that were given to me...don't enjoy them as much as the DPN.


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

chriso1972 said:


> here is the verypink.com magic loop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Frannyward (Mar 22, 2012)

chriso1972 said:


> here is the verypink.com magic loop
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


I knit "in the round" all the time and have never used Magic Loop.


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## janethugg (Aug 31, 2013)

I see Magic Loop as a valuable technique for knitting items in the round that have a circumference smaller than that of a circular needle or especially for knitting two socks at once.


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## anetdeer (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi Adeline! Just adding my 2 cents worth. I don't think you HAVE to do magic loop if you are not comfortable ... the knitting police won't care. Remember that knitting is supposed to be relaxing not a chore. Continue knitting whatever way you want...just enjoy it!


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## Judy C. (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm making fingerless gloves for Christmas gifts using different patterns. I tired of dp needles and like knitting in the round. Therefore, purchased 9" US#8 and it works fine. Took a few rounds to get use to the itty bitty pointed ends, but now OK. I plan to try magic loop (again) but wonder why when I can just use a smaller circular. Have fun.


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## paljoey46 (Nov 20, 2011)

I,, too, have tried Magic Loop. I'm old school; learned to use dpn's when I was a child and these are more comfortable for me to work with.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


Who says you MUST use magic loop? I do not like the method & will not use it. I use dpn's if I can't use a circular needle.


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

There is nothing "magic" about it.All you do is pull a loop of cable between two stitches,thus shortening the cables and making it possible to knit small numbers of stitches.When you reach the loop ,pull a new loop further along ,then work the next few stitches as tightly as possible to present a hole.Try it and see.


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## traveler204 (Feb 1, 2012)

I have just learned magic and love it but I know may not be for everyone. A lady in my knitting group makes them flat and sews up the side. So easy and looks great and she sells lots of them some with matching scarfs. Try making them flat. Sometimes if the project is small you do not have room to work in the round. Hope this helps.


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## kmckinstry77 (Jan 18, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


You should be able to do the same patterns with DPNs... they are all joined-in-the-round, right?
Magic Loop isn't really that complicated (fortunately) & I'm not sure I do it the way they tell you to, but... All I do is make sure my cord is a fair bit longer than the circumference of the project, at least for most of the project (hats, bowls, etc. do change size as you go along). Then, I join the ends together (after casting on, of course), leaving some of the cord "poking out" in one or two places. I put what I want to knit next on my left needle, leave my right needle free of any stitches (leaving enough cord at the end of the right needle for "slack"), and just knit. When I get to a point where it's difficult to knit, I just move where the "poking out" bit is & adjust what's on my needles, and knit some more. The worst part is making sure you've got a flexible enough cord & making sure your work isn't twisted when you do the initial join. You will probably want a stitch marker for right where you do the join. If you're basically just going 'round & 'round ('round & 'round  ), then you can sort of automatically avoid laddering. 
I don't know if that helped... but good luck! It just takes some practice, like everything else, so don't panic if it doesn't come to you right away.


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## christiliz (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks for the tips and links everyone! I'm ready to tackle the magic loop method. It's always fun to learn a new technique! :thumbup:


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

It's an easy technique. Everyone has their own comfort way of knitting.


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## Lizruork (Aug 25, 2013)

i have always had a horror of dpns... tried many many years ago on metal needles and it was miserable for me... avoided anyhting with too small a diameter for many years... then i tried bamboo dpns and life got easier... then i found small diameter circ's and life got better.... then i found knitting with 2 circular needles and i love it... here is a wonderful video from cat bordhi which makes it all quite simple


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## Geeks Crotchet (Apr 3, 2013)

I have been crocheting over 50 plus years, and only recently learned about the magic loop. In the beginning I had a hard time trying to do it. I finally caught on. I do like it, only because in crocheting if you need to start with a circle, the magic loop pulls the hole in the middle tight after you have crocheted in the number of stitches needed for pattern. However, I still use the chain 4, join to starting chain. It still works for me.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

christiliz said:


> Thanks for the tips and links everyone! I'm ready to tackle the magic loop method. It's always fun to learn a new technique! :thumbup:


There is a workshop which was held this past year for KP members in the workshop section. Go to the 'workshop link' below any of my posts and click on it . scroll down to 
Workshop #10 which was taught by our own darowil.

Pictures and information is all there - If you can make a tube, whichever way you feel good about doing . you can make fingerless gloves. start at the cuff k2p2 for 4 inches. Cast on the 3 of stitches in a mitten pattern with the yarn size and needle size called for -- knit another inch. At the beginning on one row increase 1 stitch, knit 1 increase again. place marker.

then knit around the needles to the beginning .

You will knit the place for your thumb at the beginning of the row with the marker.

Then at the beginning of the thumb row -- increase 1- knit
3- increase 1 -before marker. knit around the row.

Every 2nd row knit all the way around.

Keep on adding one stitch at beginning of thumb row, and just before the marker until you have l3 stitches. Making sure you do one row with the increase and a 2nd row knit around with no increase.

Once you have 13 or 15 stitches where the thumb increase is at the first of the row. Gather the thumb stitches with a piece of yarn or a stitch marker.

Start knitting the balance of the stitches (not the thumb stitches, by joining the stitches behind the thumb stitches and knitting the hand stitches until you reach your first knuckle. knit 2 p2 for 3/4" and loosely cast off.

You now have your hand tube ready to make a little tube for your thumb with the thumb stitches.

you can knit them flat if you wish and join them when you are finished. However it is easier to knit them in the round if you know how. Knit around for 1/2 inch. - 3/4 inch. and you can then put a 1x1 rib for l/1 inch, or just knit to the length you want your thumb and cast off.

Some people don't bother knitting the thumb stitches. they just cast off the thumb stitches and start the hand from there. Personally I like a bit of a thumb

Here is a picture - I have made about 30 pairs of these fingerless mittens -- some in ribbing and some in stocking stitch with a cuff at the wrist and a short cuff at the fingers. the pair shown has no little cuff on the thumb.

they fit very well and are extremely easy to do.


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## gdhavens (Jul 21, 2011)

I didn't know there was a magic loop cast on. I just cast on for knitting in the round in any manner I fancy, and start knitting in the round. 

If you prefer knitting flat, I would try to google "fingerless mitts knit flat" and see if anything comes up. Do you have a mitten pattern that you like? How about just using that. I have done that and just worked about 3/4 inch ribbing on the thumb, then bound off; and worked about 2 inches above the thumb join and ribbed 1/2 inch then bound off.

I also knit a fingerless mitt from side to side. It was a pattern I found online, but I don't remember the name. It basically had a wide cable that ran along one side, garter stitch in the middle and a smaller cable that ran across the other. When finished you seamed across the wider cable for the wrist, left enough room in the seam for your thumb, then sewed the rest of the seam up to the smaller cable. If I run across the pattern, I will try to post it.


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## dgoll (May 12, 2013)

I am making a pair now.Both Vogue Knitting and Ravelry have patterns. Or you can just google "fingerless mitts on dp needles".


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## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

jvallas said:


> If you mean you've only ever knit things flat, an awful lot of "in the round" projects can be knit without joining them, but you do have to account for adding selvedge stitches (in the round doesn't need them). I'll look on Ravelry, though, and see if there are patterns for fingerless mitts knit flat.


KP just had a workshop that included a pattern for fingerless mitts knit flat and sewn together. I made the scarf but not the mitts yet. Her technique for seaming was the best I had seen so far. I have been too busy to finish the workshop completely yet but will go back and finish her mitts. Search for workshops with designer1234 and you will be able to do your mitts without magic loop or DPNs or two circular needles. Good luck.


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## Carol295 (Oct 13, 2012)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, but i think my problem is so complicated since i've never, ever used double pointed needles- never looked at a project that required this knowledge- think i'm doomed, thanks again, adelaide


I felt the same way you did but tried both the dpns and the magic loop. Granted I'm not proficient in either yet but I can use both ad so can you if you don't put too much pressure on yourself. It's like anything else you do that's we. You just have to keep trying. Please don't give up.


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## Catarry (Apr 10, 2012)

The challenge to knitting in the round is that your project must not become smaller around than the circular needle you're working with.

That means that most hats can be knit almost all the way, but the decreases at the top force you to change to dpns to finish...same for socks, mittens, etc.

Using Magic Loop, like using 2 circulars, allows you to keep your work in the round, but to work half of your stitches on one section of cable and the rest on another section. That way you can work down to just 4 stitches without having to change to dpns. Generally, a cable needle of 40 inches will do the trick...less than that and it's tough to get enough play in the cable to avoid creating a ladder at the split between the front and back of the loop..
I'm with Chris...Staci at Very Pink is a great teacher, and her videos are professionally shot with good audio...she gets down to business and doesn't waste your time with extraneous fumbling.


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## jkpiwonski (Nov 16, 2012)

Go to Lion brand yarn website-they have some knit flat


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## Jedmo (Jan 21, 2013)

I can't do it. Tried and just can't.


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## cdanzinger (Sep 1, 2011)

jvallas, I love your avitar. Am making lapghan for a special friend and have been looking for different blocks. Could you refer me to your pattern please. Blessings, Cathy


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## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

javallus, I love y our avatar. Could you share the link or the pattern [email protected] Thanks a bunch


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## LBush1144 (Jan 23, 2011)

I decided to use magic loop a while back -- thought I'd use only 6 or 8 stitches! Mistake! too hard to see how and what to do. Later I watched a tutorial and learned quickly. I do sweater sleeves, hats, and whatever I want using magic loop now. Oh, and I am left handed -- does that make a difference? NO!


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## past (Apr 3, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


Magic loop is used when the number of stitches you are using are too few for you to be able to knit in the round unless you are using a 9 inch cable with short or rounded needles. It is used as an alternative to using DPN. It is just another technique. Just because a pattern says to use magic loop doesn't mean you have to. When knitting socks or mitts I prefer to use DPN. Someone else might prefer to use 2 cables the same size. Another person might prefer magic loop. And yet some would prefer to figure out how to knit the project flat instead of in the round then sew together. It is all personal preference.


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

I'm sorry the magic loop method isn't working out for you but please don't give up. Check out this YouTube video by Liat Gat that walks you through every single step of the magic loop. It is about 13 minutes long. She is very clear and thorough. Learning to do this will just open up so many more possibilities and increase your knowledge. Good luck!


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## Loramarin (Nov 21, 2011)

I think you are asking about the "magic loop Cast on", not just knitting in the round using magic loop. You certainly can cast on using any method you want. Then, join in the round or even knit a row or two and then join in the round. The magic loop cast on gives you a circle that needs no extra joining. Most of the patterns I have use a regular cast on and then join.


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## Patsy Ruth (Apr 19, 2013)

I knit my first pair of socks on double points in 1954 and never tried any other technique until I joined KP. I have done magic loop, sock rockets (2 circulars) and 9" and 12" circulars. I now almost exclusively use 12" addi turbo circular for all adult socks and 9" circular for smaller items knit in the round. I have tried them all and this is the best method FOR ME. It is not the best method for everyone or that would be the only way to do it. You will eventually settle on the method you like best, we all do. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## tvarnas (Apr 18, 2013)

Geeks Crotchet said:


> I have been crocheting over 50 plus years, and only recently learned about the magic loop. In the beginning I had a hard time trying to do it. I finally caught on. I do like it, only because in crocheting if you need to start with a circle, the magic loop pulls the hole in the middle tight after you have crocheted in the number of stitches needed for pattern. However, I still use the chain 4, join to starting chain. It still works for me.


The crochet magic loop, also called adjustable ring, is different. The knitting magic loop is what's done with the needle cable when knitting in the round.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

Oh our workshop page Darowil has a class on Magic Loop that makes it very easy. I took it and her sock class, and can now knit socks.


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## rasputin (Apr 21, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> i am more of a dope than you imagine- don't know how to use dp needles, nor how to use or what it means to use two circulars- just trying to do the best with my limited technique knowledege but it seems to me that i should simply donate these random skeims, thanks, adelaide


no, you are not a dope!!! I have never used DPN's and have never knit in the round , nor have I ever did Magic loop and don't even know what that means! lol so you are not alone. But if I want to learn I will need to see it with a live real person. I am very visual. Good luck


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


There probably are too few stitches to knit in the round, which is why you have to do magic loop. I do have a pattern for fingerless mitts knitted flat. I'll see if I can find it for you.


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## grannyfabulous4 (Apr 3, 2012)

cindye6556 said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-125742-1.html
> 
> Go to above link and then down to workshop #10. It will teach you everything you need to know about magic loop.
> 
> ...


I agree with cindye6556. I struggled to learn Magic Loop and finally one day made up my mind to learn it no matter what. I do not do any specific co, just the same one I have used for years. I do not like dppns, but love the magic loop now. Keep your yarn, and if necessary wait until the snow flys, and you are looking for something new to do. I printed out the instructions with diagrams and went to work. Didn't work well the first time, but I did "learn" from that experience. By the 3rd try, I was off and running. Now try to convert everything to Magic Loop! Patience is the key, as in most things.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

Ok, the pattern is called, Zig Zag Lace Fingerless Gloves You can find the free pattern on Ravelry.


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## showperson (Mar 7, 2012)

The advantage to Magic Loop is that you can knit a wide variety of projects with just one circular needle length. You can knit gloves, a hat, and a shawl with the same circular needle. If you already have a short circular needle for gloves, there is no reason you do the magic loop technique.


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## callielw (Jan 28, 2012)

I understand your confusion. I had it too. Sometimes cabled needles are too short for a project so people came up with magic loop or using 2 cable needles to make it easier than double points ( or at least, that's what I assume). Now, you can find shorter cables. To get them short enough for mittens, the needle part of the cable-set is much shorter and can be harder for some to handle. So for them, magic loop or 2 cables is easier. I find any of the three ways doable. It's simply a learning curve that you have to get past. If you are comfy doing it one way and it works for you then keep doing it. Most of us learn a different method when the first one isn't working.


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## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

Javallis could you please tell me where to find the pattern for the heart blocks in your avatar.


jvallas said:


> I can't think of any pattern I've knit in the round with Magic Loop that I couldn't have used dpns for, including fingerless mitts. I do love Magic Loop, and maybe someday you'll give it a try on an experimental basis, but we're all different, and you don't ever have to learn it if you'd rather not. I still go back to dpns once in a while just because I'm in the mood.


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## KaitlanBlackrose (Jun 11, 2012)

The way I explain magic loop to my students is... think of the first needle as half and the second as the second half and that you just knit like you do for flat until you come to the stitch marker. Always place your stitch marker, that way you will know (just like with DPNs) that you are at the beginning of the next row. And if you can't get it... use your DPNs. Ultitmately it is your choice on what technique you use


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


You don't have to do magic loop - use double points or 2 circulars. There are also fingerless glove patterns that are done flat and seamed


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## tielma (Nov 20, 2011)

I find magic loop is great for knitting two at a time mittens or socks. That way you avoid the boredom of knitting a second one of the pair, trying to make them come out exactly alike. Just my preference, though.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


I don't know of a special "magic loop cast on" so if there is one I guess I have been doing it wrong all this time. When I use magic loop (or two circulars) I use what ever cast on I choose. Just cast on and divide it for magic loop. If you have a circular needle that is small enough for your project, just cast on and knit as you always do. You will have one join instead of two.


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## crazyquiltmom (Feb 28, 2011)

Here is one of the best tutorials from Very Pink Knits that I have seen on how to do the magic loop. The video is clear, & her explanations are concise - not overly verbose. She does assume you know how to cast on circular needles & make the join as the piece she is using for her demonstration, a 2 x 2 rib, is several inches long.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

chriso1972 said:


> Magic loop is really really easy. I just started knitting and I find it so simple.
> 
> the best tutorial I have found is on www.verypink.com
> 
> she is a great teacher


This is my "go to" site also. Your right, she is good.


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## Adelaide (Aug 29, 2011)

sounds like a workshop i'd like to take but i don't have any idea how to locate it etc. etc., would you be kind enough to give me details- the suggested videos are not really helping me so i am thrilled to go another route or consider a "smarter" brain-chip implant, thanks, adelaide


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, but i think my problem is so complicated since i've never, ever used double pointed needles- never looked at a project that required this knowledge- think i'm doomed, thanks again, adelaide


your not doomed... just cast on those stitches.. I'm not sure what is confusing you about the cast on they are asking for... but I know when I do my socks toe up there is a special cast on but that's because they are 'Toe Up' and the cast on edge is closed.. 
Just use any old cast on you want and close the ends so you have a tube.. then knit away and when its hard to knit just pull the working needle out and continue knitting.. its called a 'Traveling Needle' and works for me in lots of instances... 
You are over thinking this instead of having fun with it... this is a hobby and meant to be enjoyed.. just go for it.. follow your pattern word by word and if its so darn confusing find a new one... there are lots out there... I think some pattern writers love to confuse us.. they get some kind of thrill watching us struggle and end up asking them for help...LOL that's just my opinion I could be completely wrong


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

Form what I understand you use Magic Look for circular knitting only if you don't have the right length circular needle.

For example: if it take a 12" circ to knit something and you have only a 16 then you would use the Magic Loop method.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## sutclifd (Feb 26, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


Magic Loop allows you to use a long circular needle to knit really small stuff. Because of the length of the needle and the cable, you wouldn't be able to have a tiny round needle of the size to knit, say a finger on a glove. If you knit them flat, you'd have a seam up the finger which wouldn't be very comfortable.

I tried to learn Magic Loop on my own -- but the saying about an old dog and new tricks held true. However, when another knitter showed me how to do it, it was so easy, I couldn't imagine why I had trouble! I never seem to have enough hands to use DPs and Magic Loop (it IS a dumb name -- too kitschy) solved it for me.

Perhaps you could find another knitter to show you -- preferably before you truly convince yourself that you can't learn it.


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## Stampergrandma (Jun 6, 2011)

The magic loop allows you to knit smaller circumferance items on one long circular needle, that you otherwise would need to do on doublepoint needles. Example would be socks, mittens, etc. thats why they named "magic".


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

Here is a list of fingerless gloves worked flat from Ravelry

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#craft=knitting&view=captioned_thumbs&query=Fingerless%20Gloves&availability=free&pa=worked-flat&sort=best


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## RoxyCatlady (Mar 22, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


It is simply another method for knitting in the round. You can use double point needles, or a shorter circular, or two circulars, or "magic loop", or even "travelling loop". The choice is entirely yours - whatever you want to use, whatever you feel comfortable using.

Some people just like to do the two at once, on one needle. Personally, I do - it is great when doing a pattern stitch, because I can get a rhythm going, and keep going, instead of stopping after a few stitches. I don't have to worry about misplacing my fourth (or fifth) needle between knitting sessions, or worse, dropping it and losing it. Or having it fall out of stitches!! And I can do two items at once (two socks, two mitts, two gloves, two wristwarmers, two sleeves, etc.) and be sure they match.

So, it is all a personal choice. I can cast on for any of the above mentioned items regardless of what the pattern is written for (I can cast on dpns for a pattern written for circs, and vice versa if I choose) and it makes no difference. But, I do know that I've seen many many many people asking how to cast on properly for the circular methods if a pattern is written for dpns... but rarely the other way around.


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


I'm with you on the magic loop. It seems like too much rearranging to me. Double pointed needles should not be that hard for you as you already knit in the round, I assume on circular needles. All you are doing is jumping from one needle to the next instead of having the wire in between. At first you may have to be careful not to loose your stitches off the ends and to make sure when you change to the next needle to pull the stitches tight as not to leave ladders in your work. Knitting in the round is such a joy when making small hats and socks. Boy I wish I had you here. I would have you up and running on those DPNS.


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## sutclifd (Feb 26, 2013)

SwampCatNana said:


> Form what I understand you use Magic Look for circular knitting only if you don't have the right length circular needle.
> 
> For example: if it take a 12" circ to knit something and you have only a 16 then you would use the Magic Loop method.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.


You're not wrong -- just didn't go all the way. You can use Magic Loop when there just isn't a round needle small enough (whether or not you have it). Because of the needle on the end of circulars (with no bend in the needle), you just can't make them as short as you might like. So, you fall back on DP's (which I have never mastered) or Magic Loop. Also, you can knit both socks at the same time with Magic Loop -- thereby solving the dreaded 'second sock syndrome.' If that's as clear as mud -- let me know and I'll try again.


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## Dot700 (Jan 11, 2013)

I knit fingerless
mitts all the time and have never used magic loop. Go to ravelry.com and you will find literally dozens of patterns, a lot of them free.


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## Patsy Ruth (Apr 19, 2013)

I use two 12" circulars for socks and knit one sock on each. Rib of one, rib of the second. leg of one and then leg of the other. Then heel flap of one, heel flap of the other etc. I finish them both at about the same time. This is easier for me. I have also tried the magic loop. It is ok but I like the 12" circulars better. To each his own. I always say that is why there are so many ways to knit so we can make our own choices. I never try to convert anyone to my way. Just let them know there are different ways. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Geeks Crotchet (Apr 3, 2013)

Thank you. I really did not know there was a difference. I like this site. I learn so much from all of you.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> sounds like a workshop i'd like to take but i don't have any idea how to locate it etc. etc., would you be kind enough to give me details- the suggested videos are not really helping me so i am thrilled to go another route or consider a "smarter" brain-chip implant, thanks, adelaide


Our workshop page is http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-105-1.html

The Magic Loop Workshop is http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-132385-1.html

The sock workshop using Magic Loop is http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-137747-1.html

Ignore that it says "Closed" on them. That just means you cvan't post to them. But, if you have a question not answered in the workshop, you can PM darowil and she will answer. She is ion Australia though, so it might be a few hours before she is on in her time zone


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## Meyow (May 2, 2013)

You're right! Great teacher. I was unfamiliar with this site. Thanks! :thumbup:


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

sutclifd said:


> You're not wrong -- just didn't go all the way. You can use Magic Loop when there just isn't a round needle small enough (whether or not you have it). Because of the needle on the end of circulars (with no bend in the needle), you just can't make them as short as you might like. So, you fall back on DP's (which I have never mastered) or Magic Loop. Also, you can knit both socks at the same time with Magic Loop -- thereby solving the dreaded 'second sock syndrome.' If that's as clear as mud -- let me know and I'll try again.


Thanks.


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

The only use for DPN for me is either lace or cable place-holder during cable work.

I'm about equal on either Interchangeable or fixed circulars...depends on project (scarf/shawl or simple garment).

I have only one 60 inch circular (fixed length) - am only getting THIS length on need. <G>


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## Vique (Oct 28, 2011)

jvallas, your avatar reminds me of the cakes of eye shadow that have patterns on the top. So pretty.


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

A friend tried to teach me the magic loop, and it made no sense to me whatsoever. I still use dpns.

Hazel


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

You are "preaching to the choir" on this one. When I started knitting on circulars, I was too lazy to switch to dpns and just pulled the needle out, pulled the cord and finished up a hat using this technique. I had no idea at the time it even WAS a technique. Now I know it is called Magic Loop.

I agree... anything with the term "magic" in it is bound to be more of a gimic than anything.

People swear by this technique but I will NEVER understand the desire to yank that long cord in and out and constantly switching your stitches from one needle to another... what a waste of time! 

I have used this technique to finish up the top decreases of a hat, but for anything else, you are just wasting time. 

One lady here says she knits EVERYTHING using magic loop with a long cord! Can you imagine what a waste of time and energy THAT is?!?!?! I am just picturing a top down sweater worked with a huge, long cord and wrestling with all that heavy sweater and that cord!!!! Ridiculous!

Anyways, there are many ways to knit a small item in the round.... dpns, two circulars, one small circular and magic loop. I am adept at using all the techniques for knitting small items in the round. Magic Loop is great for finishing up decreases in a hat or mitten, but I would NEVER waste the time using it for a whole sock or mitten, etc. There is absolutely NO REASON for all that extra work and effort.

In my opinion, magic loop is the least desirable of the methods.... just a huge waste of time and energy spent working the cord when you COULD be knitting stitches.

I would concentrate on learning DPNS or two circulars before trying to learn Magic Loop.... especially if it looks like something that you don't feel you would USE.. as you say... there is no reason to learn this technique when there are several others to choose from.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

kathycam said:


> Ok, the pattern is called, Zig Zag Lace Fingerless Gloves You can find the free pattern on Ravelry.


Umm... Kathycam I went to Raverry, and found the picture and description of those gloves, but I cannot for the life of me get top the pattern itself! I even tried to go to her blog site, but it blocked me as "Not Invited". *sigh* love the patter and would like to get it.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

SwampCatNana said:


> Form what I understand you use Magic Look for circular knitting only if you don't have the right length circular needle.
> 
> For example: if it take a 12" circ to knit something and you have only a 16 then you would use the Magic Loop method.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.


You can use circular needles for flat knitting. In fact, I prefer it as it keeps the weight of the project off your wrists. However you wouldn't, of course, use Magic Loop Method as that only works for circular knitting.


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## smillar (Nov 17, 2012)

jvallas...I love your photo...do you have the pattern for that? I am Scottish, living in Canada and I am expecting a grandson in a couple of months, so I want to make some items that include his heritage.
many thanks, Sandra


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## knitwit42 (Apr 23, 2011)

I use circular needles for all my knitting, in the round or flat. I wanted to learn to knit socks, so I did my first two pairs on double points. If you can't get the hang of double points maybe you would like the 12 inch circulars. I just got mine in the mail a few days ago and am knitting socks in the round. Really like working with them. You may want to try the 12 inch.


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

knitwit42 said:


> I use circular needles for all my knitting, in the round or flat. I wanted to learn to knit socks, so I did my first two pairs on double points. If you can't get the hang of double points maybe you would like the 12 inch circulars. I just got mine in the mail a few days ago and am knitting socks in the round. Really like working with them. You may want to try the 12 inch.


Would love to use 12" circs, IF I COULD FIND SOME!!!!!!


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## Woolywarmer (May 31, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


This is the video that taught me magic loop after many failures. Now I don't want to knit any other way.




It's Liat Gat. And BTW, I agree, it's a cheesy name for a technique.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

I would concentrate on learning DPNS or two circulars before trying to learn Magic Loop.... especially if it looks like something that you don't feel you would USE.. as you say... there is no reason to learn this technique when there are several others to choose from.[/quote]

Amy, I CANNOT use dpns. I am diabetic,. have carpal tunnel syndrome and also arthritis in my hands, and my finger pads are numb due to diabetic neuropathy. I simply CANNOT hold onto dpns, and the ones that are hanging loose because I'm not knitting on them fall out every time I move. However, with circulars and magic loop, there are no dropped stitches, and no dropped NEEDLES, PLUS they put the weight of whatever project I'm knitting, which helps keep the pain in hands and wrists and arms down.


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## knitwit42 (Apr 23, 2011)

SwampCatNana said:


> Would love to use 12" circs, IF I COULD FIND SOME!!!!!!


I ordered mine from Handsome Fibers. Got the ChiaoGoo bamboos for $6.00 each. Also bought a couple of 9 inch. It was free shipping if the order is over $20. Fast delivery also.


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## gclemens (Feb 18, 2012)

The heritage of knitting is to make it work however is best for you. If you simply can't abide magic loop use double points. The magic loop is for those of us that do not like or struggle with double points. Both work equally well for knitting small circular objects.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, but i think my problem is so complicated since i've never, ever used double pointed needles- never looked at a project that required this knowledge- think i'm doomed, thanks again, adelaide


Adelaide, I am sure you are not doomed. Learning a new technique is sometimes a bit of a challenge ... but you could certainly cast on... and join and work in the round as you would with any circular needle. Magic Loop just allows a person to knit two at a time... or use a long needle for a very small item. It just takes patience and practice.
Jane


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

I am so glad to hear that I don't have to be able to do magic loop to make a sweater kit I want to buy. It said materials needed--2 circulars 42" needles. I don't want to buy any more needles, and I am perfectly content just knitting in the round. Maybe someday I'll try magic loop though.


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## hania (Sep 30, 2011)

Try watchin the "knit Freedom" video,Liat Gat makes it easy to foloow.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Dowager said:


> I would concentrate on learning DPNS or two circulars before trying to learn Magic Loop.... especially if it looks like something that you don't feel you would USE.. as you say... there is no reason to learn this technique when there are several others to choose from.


Amy, I CANNOT use dpns. I am diabetic,. have carpal tunnel syndrome and also arthritis in my hands, and my finger pads are numb due to diabetic neuropathy. I simply CANNOT hold onto dpns, and the ones that are hanging loose because I'm not knitting on them fall out every time I move. However, with circulars and magic loop, there are no dropped stitches, and no dropped NEEDLES, PLUS they put the weight of whatever project I'm knitting, which helps keep the pain in hands and wrists and arms down.[/quote]

Well, THAT makes perfect sense. Thank you for sharing. I have always had trouble seeing the benefit and now I can. I believe if I had hand problems, I would also use the best solution to be able to continue knitting! Thank you for sharing as I had never thought of that!!
:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

I know I am not a magic looper. Never saw anything magical about yanking the long, long cable back and forth more than knitting unless it's good practice in patience. Then I have none.


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## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

I second that" would love to have that pattern. but speaking of photos yours is quite thought provoking itself. love it!


smillar said:


> jvallas...I love your photo...do you have the pattern for that? I am Scottish, living in Canada and I am expecting a grandson in a couple of months, so I want to make some items that include his heritage.
> many thanks, Sandra


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

There's a "Magic Loop" for knitting? Wow, and to think I avoid "Magic Loop" for crochet because of limited use of fingers. I must check out the one for knitting and see if it's as frustrating as in crochet.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

christiliz said:


> Thanks for the tips and links everyone! I'm ready to tackle the magic loop method. It's always fun to learn a new technique! :thumbup:


That's how I feel, I like to see what's new and usually give it a quick "swatch sized" try to see if I like it. If I don't, I go back to the old method that was working just fine. But I hate to just dismiss something out of hand as not being useful if I didn't really test it out. Not enough time to try _everything_, though!

And I fully understand how differently we all do things. Boy, there seem to be plenty of techniques for all of us to pick from!


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## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

nope just use the stitch count and four dpns much less frustrating


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

cbjlinda said:


> I second that" would love to have that pattern. but speaking of photos yours is quite thought provoking itself. love it!


Thank you, and sorry I didn't see your (and Sandra's) request till now. The project page is here: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/jvallas/cabled-heart-3 and a pattern page here: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/cabled-heart. She has lots of Celtic cables, and I love them all! (The heart in the photo is exactly as I knit it _but_ photoshopped it to add 4 colors and quadruple the heart.)


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Vique said:


> jvallas, your avatar reminds me of the cakes of eye shadow that have patterns on the top. So pretty.


Thank you! I gave a link to the pattern on page 8 of this thread.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

smillar said:


> jvallas...I love your photo...do you have the pattern for that? I am Scottish, living in Canada and I am expecting a grandson in a couple of months, so I want to make some items that include his heritage.
> many thanks, Sandra


See my reply page 8, as I don't want to highjack the thread with links all over the place. Thanks!


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

dotcarp2000 said:


> javallus, I love y our avatar. Could you share the link or the pattern [email protected] Thanks a bunch


(See p8)


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> Well, THAT makes perfect sense. Thank you for sharing. I have always had trouble seeing the benefit and now I can. I believe if I had hand problems, I would also use the best solution to be able to continue knitting! Thank you for sharing as I had never thought of that!!
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


I love your attitude and the way you respond. My respects for you.


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## Damama (Oct 2, 2011)

gdhavens said:


> I didn't know there was a magic loop cast on. I just cast on for knitting in the round in any manner I fancy, and start knitting in the round.
> 
> If you prefer knitting flat, I would try to google "fingerless mitts knit flat" and see if anything comes up. Do you have a mitten pattern that you like? How about just using that. I have done that and just worked about 3/4 inch ribbing on the thumb, then bound off; and worked about 2 inches above the thumb join and ribbed 1/2 inch then bound off.
> 
> I also knit a fingerless mitt from side to side. It was a pattern I found online, but I don't remember the name. It basically had a wide cable that ran along one side, garter stitch in the middle and a smaller cable that ran across the other. When finished you seamed across the wider cable for the wrist, left enough room in the seam for your thumb, then sewed the rest of the seam up to the smaller cable. If I run across the pattern, I will try to post it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
I also didn't know there was a Magic Loop Cast On, like you i just use my favorite cast on and join to knit in the round. What am I missing, I can do Judy's Magic cast on, but thought that was for a "closed tube". 
Oh well, as usual I am so confused! :wink: :|


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## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

thanks so much"


jvallas said:


> Thank you, and sorry I didn't see your (and Sandra's) request till now. The project page is here: http://www.ravelry.com/projects/jvallas/cabled-heart-3 and a pattern page here: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/cabled-heart. She has lots of Celtic cables, and I love them all! (The heart in the photo is exactly as I knit it _but_ photoshopped it to add 4 colors and quadruple the heart.)


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Loramarin said:


> I think you are asking about the "magic loop Cast on", not just knitting in the round using magic loop. You certainly can cast on using any method you want. Then, join in the round or even knit a row or two and then join in the round. The magic loop cast on gives you a circle that needs no extra joining. Most of the patterns I have use a regular cast on and then join.


Yes, about casting on - to throw another wrench in the works - more fodder for everyone to argue about - 
A great starting caston for in the round knitting for socks, etc. is Judy Becker's Magic caston a search will definitely find it for you). There's that nasty word, Magic, again. It's provisional, I love it, a ton of people do as well, but it by no means *has* to be learned.

This is where I get really frustrated. People whose opinions I've thought a lot of on this site start going on and on about how a particular technique stinks, don't use it, it slows you down, *my* way is the only one worth knowing, etc., and I could just scream. If you don't use Magic Loop, great. I do, I love it, I'm a very fast knitter, and I choose it over DPNs almost always unless I'm nostalgic for an old-timely feel or want to show off to non-knitters, who seem to think 4 or 5 sticks are just about impossible.

Please encourage people to try new things if they're of a mind to, to stick to the old ways if that's their preference, but do not tell them there's only one way. Sorry for the rant, but closed-minded opinions aggravate me. The whole point is to enjoy knitting, not to blindly follow what someone else says is the only way.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> There is a workshop which was held this past year for KP members in the workshop section.


Awesome! Thanks for all that!


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## gdhavens (Jul 21, 2011)

Jvallas, you are so right. There are so many ways to do things because there are so many different people thinking of ways to do them. What works beautifully for one just doesn't work for another. Also, different projects use different methods. I just choose to use whatever works for me at the time. No knitting police allowed!


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

SwampCatNana said:


> Form what I understand you use Magic Look for circular knitting only if you don't have the right length circular needle.
> 
> For example: if it take a 12" circ to knit something and you have only a 16 then you would use the Magic Loop method.
> 
> Please correct me if I am wrong.


Not exactly wrong, it's what most people think of it for. It's just not the *only* reason to use it. I use the cable needles for flat work, in the round, Fair Isle, etc., etc., & if it's in the round, I Magic Loop it. With an interchangeable cable, you can just change your tips and use the same cable again and again (unless it's a hideous length for what you're doing). And your knitting stays on the needles when you put it down. And you don't poke anybody when you're on an airplane - ok, that one's kind of silly!


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## Itsrik (Aug 8, 2013)

I think you can only use circular for about circumference of 16 inches if you are connecting circle. Pulling the cable out allows to go smaller. 
I just completed 3 pair fingerless gloves for next Christmas presents. Went to Ravelry and put in easy , crochet fingerless and got a pattern called Grunge. Everyone thinks they are knit. Done flat and crocheted together at the end. Super easy for a non crocheted.


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## Quincy's Mom (Sep 3, 2011)

You can use one 12" circular needle to do fingerless gloves, if you don't do a thumb. For anything smaller than a 40 stitch cast on you are probably not going to succeed with one needle as the circumference is too small.


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## KaitlanBlackrose (Jun 11, 2012)

Damama said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> I also didn't know there was a Magic Loop Cast On, like you i just use my favorite cast on and join to knit in the round. What am I missing, I can do Judy's Magic cast on, but thought that was for a "closed tube".
> Oh well, as usual I am so confused! :wink: :|


Judy's cast on is for a closed tube and to have an open tube just cast on in your normal way.


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## GC_Bonnie (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm 73 years old and I watched the tutorial on u tube and learned how to do the magic loop, now it took 4 or 5 times of watching and practice, if I can do it, you'll catch on, don't give up.


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

jvallas said:


> Not exactly wrong, it's what most people think of it for. It's just not the *only* reason to use it. I use the cable needles for flat work, in the round, Fair Isle, etc., etc., & if it's in the round, I Magic Loop it. With an interchangeable cable, you can just change your tips and use the same cable again and again (unless it's a hideous length for what you're doing). And your knitting stays on the needles when you put it down. And you don't poke anybody when you're on an airplane - ok, that one's kind of silly!


Do you use the Magic Loop for flat work?


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

GC_Bonnie said:


> I'm 73 years old and I watched the tutorial on u tube and learned how to do the magic loop, now it took 4 or 5 times of watching and practice, if I can do it, you'll catch on, don't give up.


WTG Bonnie :!: :!: :!: :thumbup: I'm 75 and I did the same!


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

KaitlanBlackrose said:


> Judy's cast on is for a closed tube and to have an open tube just cast on in your normal way.


Judy uses the Magic Cast on for toe-up socks. I just copied her directions to print out. It took me almost an hour as there are so many electronic doo-dads to get rid of.
Will print it out on cardstock and put in plastic sleeve to keep handy until I learn it.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

This is where I get really frustrated. People whose opinions I've thought a lot of on this site start going on and on about how a particular technique stinks, don't use it, it slows you down, *my* way is the only one worth knowing, etc., and I could just scream. If you don't use Magic Loop, great. I do, I love it, I'm a very fast knitter, and I choose it over DPNs almost always unless I'm nostalgic for an old-timely feel or want to show off to non-knitters, who seem to think 4 or 5 sticks are just about impossible.

Please encourage people to try new things if they're of a mind to, to stick to the old ways if that's their preference, but do not tell them there's only one way. Sorry for the rant, but closed-minded opinions aggravate me. The whole point is to enjoy knitting, not to blindly follow what someone else says is the only way.[/quote]

Thanks for stating your frustration with those who think their way is the only right way to do things. I too get frustrated with them.
If a thing works for you... do it. As long as we are getting the result that we want .... a nicely knitted garment (or what ever) it is the right way for that person. 
I too, am a Magic Loop sock knitter. I love knitting two at a time... Personally I can't imagine knitting with a 9", 12" or 16" needle.... give me my 40" circular and I am happy as a clam.
Jane


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

oooopsssssssssss


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## SwampCatNana (Dec 27, 2012)

JTM said:


> This is where I get really frustrated. People whose opinions I've thought a lot of on this site start going on and on about how a particular technique stinks, don't use it, it slows you down, *my* way is the only one worth knowing, etc., and I could just scream. If you don't use Magic Loop, great. I do, I love it, I'm a very fast knitter, and I choose it over DPNs almost always unless I'm nostalgic for an old-timely feel or want to show off to non-knitters, who seem to think 4 or 5 sticks are just about impossible.
> 
> Please encourage people to try new things if they're of a mind to, to stick to the old ways if that's their preference, but do not tell them there's only one way. Sorry for the rant, but closed-minded opinions aggravate me. The whole point is to enjoy knitting, not to blindly follow what someone else says is the only way.


Thanks for stating your frustration with those who think their way is the only right way to do things. I too get frustrated with them.
If a thing works for you... do it. As long as we are getting the result that we want .... a nicely knitted garment (or what ever) it is the right way for that person. 
I too, am a Magic Loop sock knitter. I love knitting two at a time... Personally I can't imagine knitting with a 9", 12" or 16" needle.... give me my 40" circular and I am happy as a clam.
Jane[/quote]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MidMdRoots (Feb 9, 2013)

Here's a couple of patterns you can knit flat
http://www.allfreeknitting.com/Mittens-and-Gloves/two-hour-fingerless-gloves
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/garter-stitch-mitts


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## Loramarin (Nov 21, 2011)

You are all getting off topic from the original question . Adelaide wasn't asking about Magic Loop. Her question was whether she had to use the Magic Loop Cast On (co).There are nine pages of opinions on magic loop and mastering new techniques... Read her original post. She wanted to know if she had to learn the cast on, which is cumbersome but gives an open tube. The answer is: She surely can use any cast on then join in the round.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

SwampCatNana said:


> Do you use the Magic Loop for flat work?


No, I use the same cable needles, but not the Magic Loop technique. You just treat the needles as if they were " straight" needles. All stitches on one needle (& if a lot of stitches, they'll flow to the cable, too), and the other end (2nd needle) is manipulated exactly the same as if it were your 2nd "working needle." In fact, it *is* your working needle. Just a lot less chance of stitches falling off, among other things. (Since you do Magic Loop, you know all this. Just putting general knowledge out there.)


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Loramarin said:


> Her question was whether she had to use the Magic Loop Cast On (co)


I definitely get your point. Can someone tell me what is meant by Magic Loop caston? Is there such a thing? Don't you just caston however you like, & then do Magic Loop?

(Genuine question, not trying to be snarky.)


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## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

Good luck in whatever you decide to try. I learned in the round on DPNs from my LYS but have since taught myself, using lots of help from You Tube, in the round on 2 circs and magic loop. Kelly's sock class on Knit Picks is very good for learning Magic Loop.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

What is a dpns?


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

SwampCatNana said:


> Do you use the Magic Loop for flat work?


No, I use circular needles whenever I can, flat or in the round. For example, if I were doing an afghan I would use one, as it keeps the weight off the hands and wrists. For the Magic Loop Technique, you have to be knitting in the round.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

kittykatzmom said:


> What is a dpns?


Double pointed needles, used particularly for knitting in the round, though mine come in handy for holding cable stitches, too.


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## Dowager (Jun 7, 2011)

kittykatzmom said:


> What is a dpns?


dpns are small, double pointed needles, used for knitting things in the round before the advent of circular needles.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> You are "preaching to the choir" on this one. When I started knitting on circulars, I was too lazy to switch to dpns and just pulled the needle out, pulled the cord and finished up a hat using this technique. I had no idea at the time it even WAS a technique. Now I know it is called Magic Loop.
> 
> I agree... anything with the term "magic" in it is bound to be more of a gimic than anything.
> 
> ...


-------------------
Amy knits-- I think it is a matter of different people liking different things. I find the magic loop quick, easy and very much like it. I don't find it a problem -certainly not any more of a problem than dpns. I used dpn's for years but as I make a lot of hats for charity - and cowls -- I use
100 cm addi turbos and can adjust a hat from the brim at the beginning down to the 4 stitches at the top. I also use them for toe up as well as top down socks which are easy to measure, and quick. Also mittens and fingerless mittens. I rarely use a pattern but with magic loop I never have to worry about the circumference of anything I am making as it can adjust as you go along.

to each his own. I think it is each individual's preference. It works really well for me and now that I know how without feeling any confusion, it is my method for just about anything that is circular.

You do such beautiful work, so please don't misunderstand me. I just feel it works for what I want to do and I think it is very worthwhile to learn it as certainly there are places where it is by far the easiest way to do circular knitting, especially for very few stitches. This is just my opinion.

There are a lot of us out here who love the technique--

For those who are interested in learning how to do it Darowil has a great workshop on the magic loop and then a later one on toe up socks with magic loop. She also tells you exactly how to get the right length of the foot and other tips -- so to each his own. I firmly believe that there are many ways to accomplish wonderful knitting. They just work for me and I would never go back to dpns, (which I did for years and have no trouble using) or circulars.

The workshop section can be reached by clicking on the link under any of my posts including this one. then scroll down to 'magic loop #10 workshop" and then if yoiu are 
interested in learning toe up socks which I like because you can fit them while you are doing them. read #13 workshop by Darowil. which tells you how to knit them and get them the right length. 
===========================

*Just an aside*:
I realize that i might be misunderstood as the workshops are dear to my heart but when KP members are willing to teach other KP members classes without any charge, because they want to help people learn different techniques, and put hours and hours in preparation and then spend hours answering questions etc.The donate their time and so do the organizers --

There isn't a better deal anywhere as far as I am concerned. I admit I am proud of that fact. For example Darowil has taught 4 classes for us - and has two more planned. So she had donated many many hours preparing, making examples and writing up information She alone has taught over l00- l50 people. We have had 35 classes in one year -- each one a success. Just in case someone thinks I have an ulterior motive for bringing up the classes, I do. I just think it is a fabulous place to learn techniques right here in Knitting Paradise. You don't have to search - they are right here in a special workshop for each subject where the teacher is on call to answer all questions and often gives her own patterns as a gift to us all.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, but i think my problem is so complicated since i've never, ever used double pointed needles- never looked at a project that required this knowledge- think i'm doomed, thanks again, adelaide


In the history of knitting, circular needles are relatively new. Hundreds of years of knitters got along just fine without circulars or double pointed needles, so don't feel doomed in the least :~).


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Dowager said:


> No, I use circular needles whenever I can, flat or in the round. For example, if I were doing an afghan I would use one, as it keeps the weight off the hands and wrists. For the Magic Loop Technique, you have to be knitting in the round.


You can use the same needle - you just knit it flat back and forth. I knit all my scarves sideways as there is a good length to the needle. then I knit the matching hat in magic loop - then I knit the mittens and socks with the same needles in magic loop. So one needle does them all.


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## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

that's all I use for flat knitting any more. my single needles are in a case that never gets touched. I suspect I will donate them to my granddaughter. knitting with circulars is sooooooooo much more convenient as you never loose your stitches or your needles when you set your work down. not too mention that it is not as tiring on your wrists.


jvallas said:


> Not exactly wrong, it's what most people think of it for. It's just not the *only* reason to use it. I use the cable needles for flat work, in the round, Fair Isle, etc., etc., & if it's in the round, I Magic Loop it. With an interchangeable cable, you can just change your tips and use the same cable again and again (unless it's a hideous length for what you're doing). And your knitting stays on the needles when you put it down. And you don't poke anybody when you're on an airplane - ok, that one's kind of silly!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

jvallas said:


> Yes, about casting on - to throw another wrench in the works - more fodder for everyone to argue about -
> A great starting caston for in the round knitting for socks, etc. is Judy Becker's Magic caston a search will definitely find it for you). There's that nasty word, Magic, again. It's provisional, I love it, a ton of people do as well, but it by no means *has* to be learned.
> 
> This is where I get really frustrated. People whose opinions I've thought a lot of on this site start going on and on about how a particular technique stinks, don't use it, it slows you down, *my* way is the only one worth knowing, etc., and I could just scream. If you don't use Magic Loop, great. I do, I love it, I'm a very fast knitter, and I choose it over DPNs almost always unless I'm nostalgic for an old-timely feel or want to show off to non-knitters, who seem to think 4 or 5 sticks are just about impossible.
> ...


This IS a great cast on for socks!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> i am more of a dope than you imagine- don't know how to use dp needles, nor how to use or what it means to use two circulars- just trying to do the best with my limited technique knowledege but it seems to me that i should simply donate these random skeims, thanks, adelaide


You are not a dope -- you are a person who is starting out her knitting life. We all have been there. We all have been leery about trying something new. We all have worried about failing. The best way is to forget feeling like that and 'go for it' If you want to learn how to use double pointed needles there are many on this forum who will be happy to help you. Just don't believe before you start that you can't do it -- you can. Each of us has started with the first stitch of our first project. there are some who love to do sweaters, some who love to do socks ( 5mmdpns) (check out her workshop in our archives at KP) It is #4 ,, there are others who want to do baby outfits, there are others who are quite content to do scarves, and hats, or mittens. No one on KP judges your ability or your inexperience -- every one of us has been there - done that. If you want to learn a new technique, just go for it. don't let yourself fail before you even start.

Good luck! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> This IS a great cast on for socks!


I agree l00% - there is no wrong way -- there are different ways. Just because you like one way doesn't mean someone else likes it -- that is what is so great about 
KP -- we all do things and we share our knowledge - we don't put people or technique down. what works for one might not work for another or vise versa. Try out different methods you might find all of them fit into your knitting life on different projects. You might find that a technique which is different works well for you. Good luck and don't sell yourself short.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

gdhavens said:


> Jvallas, you are so right. There are so many ways to do things because there are so many different people thinking of ways to do them. What works beautifully for one just doesn't work for another. Also, different projects use different methods. I just choose to use whatever works for me at the time. No knitting police allowed!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## grovegal (Jul 21, 2013)

Magic Loop is the only way I knit in the round. It's a lot of fungive it a try! The beauty of this technique is that you can knit any diameter project, even a project with as few as 3 stitches, on circular needles (at least 32 inches or more in length.) I learned how to do this technique using Liat Gat's video tutorial "Become A Knitting Superstar." She explains it with great clarity, and she'll make you smile, besides! Another advantage of magic loop, which Liat also teaches, is how to knit two-at-a-time; 2 socks, 2 mitts, etc. Attached is an example of mitts knitted on circular needles using the magic loop technique.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

agp917 said:


> Magic Loop is the only way I knit in the round. It's a lot of fungive it a try! The beauty of this technique is that you can knit any diameter project, even a project with as few as 3 stitches, on circular needles (at least 32 inches or more in length.) I learned how to do this technique using Liat Gat's video tutorial "Become A Knitting Superstar." She explains it with great clarity, and she'll make you smile, besides! Another advantage of magic loop, which Liat also teaches, is how to knit two-at-a-time; 2 socks, 2 mitts, etc. Attached is an example of mitts knitted on circular needles using the magic loop technique.


Those look great! I like the pattern. Her workshops are excellent. She is brilliant


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

JTM said:


> This is where I get really frustrated. People whose opinions I've thought a lot of on this site start going on and on about how a particular technique stinks, don't use it, it slows you down, *my* way is the only one worth knowing, etc., and I could just scream. If you don't use Magic Loop, great. I do, I love it, I'm a very fast knitter, and I choose it over DPNs almost always unless I'm nostalgic for an old-timely feel or want to show off to non-knitters, who seem to think 4 or 5 sticks are just about impossible.
> 
> Please encourage people to try new things if they're of a mind to, to stick to the old ways if that's their preference, but do not tell them there's only one way. Sorry for the rant, but closed-minded opinions aggravate me. The whole point is to enjoy knitting, not to blindly follow what someone else says is the only way.


Thanks for stating your frustration with those who think their way is the only right way to do things. I too get frustrated with them.
If a thing works for you... do it. As long as we are getting the result that we want .... a nicely knitted garment (or what ever) it is the right way for that person. 
I too, am a Magic Loop sock knitter. I love knitting two at a time... Personally I can't imagine knitting with a 9", 12" or 16" needle.... give me my 40" circular and I am happy as a clam.
Jane[/quote]

Me too- I started a pair of socks on dpns - got about 20 rows and couldn't carry on -- changed to a 40cm addi turbo and the magic loop and have finished both of them. I just like it better. I find it faster and easier. It was confusing at first and then the light went on!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Dot700 said:


> I knit fingerless
> mitts all the time and have never used magic loop. Go to ravelry.com and you will find literally dozens of patterns, a lot of them free.


The point is - you can use whatever method you like. Each of us has the choice to knit whatever technique we want. All work, but usually we like one better than the other. I knit socks on dpns for years, and didn't mind them. I learned toe up magic loop and love doing them that way. I can still knit the other way, but I enjoy one more than the other. That is my point. give different methods a chance and you will find that you will find the method you feel most comfortable with. 
=============
I am wondering whether the magic loop caston is really the magic cast on. that might be the caston you were talking about. I have never heard of the magic 'loop' caston. that might be where you are confused.

Don't let the word magic throw you off. try the technique and decide for yourself.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Who says you MUST use magic loop? I do not like the method & will not use it. I use dpn's if I can't use a circular needle.


I don't think any of us are saying she MUST use magic loop. We are saying that she just might like it if she takes the time to learn the technique. No one is insisting she do so. There are a lot of us who think it is a great technique. There was a post that said it was a useless way to knit. . that is where the posts got off topic.

None of us have to do anything or learn anything we don't want to. We try to help each other to learn the best way for them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

carrottop71 said:


> I'm with you on the magic loop. It seems like too much rearranging to me. Double pointed needles should not be that hard for you as you already knit in the round, I assume on circular needles. All you are doing is jumping from one needle to the next instead of having the wire in between. At first you may have to be careful not to loose your stitches off the ends and to make sure when you change to the next needle to pull the stitches tight as not to leave ladders in your work. Knitting in the round is such a joy when making small hats and socks. Boy I wish I had you here. I would have you up and running on those DPNS.


The thing we are trying to say is that it is not that hard. YOu rarely if ever lose stitches, you don't have to change needle size. There is absolutely no problem if you don't like to knit that way. Most of us have changed from dpns and circulars and like it -- We are all entitled to knit which ever way works best for us. As mentioned before this is not the knitting police. Just don't decide you dislike any technique because of what someone says. try it yourself and if you don't like it - do it the way you do like it.

We all enjoy knitting that is what it is all about.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jangmb said:


> KP just had a workshop that included a pattern for fingerless mitts knit flat and sewn together. I made the scarf but not the mitts yet. Her technique for seaming was the best I had seen so far. I have been too busy to finish the workshop completely yet but will go back and finish her mitts. Search for workshops with designer1234 and you will be able to do your mitts without magic loop or DPNs or two circular needles. Good luck.


Thanks Roni-- I had forgotten that one -- I think it might have been prismatic r's -- will check which class that is.

The link is under any of my posts on KP.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Who says you MUST use magic loop? I do not like the method & will not use it. I use dpn's if I can't use a circular needle.


no one is saying you must.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> -------------------
> Amy knits-- I think it is a matter of different people liking different things. I find the magic loop quick, easy and very much like it. I don't find it a problem -certainly not any more of a problem than dpns. I used dpn's for years but as I make a lot of hats for charity - and cowls -- I use
> 100 cm addi turbos and can adjust a hat from the brim at the beginning down to the 4 stitches at the top. I also use them for toe up as well as top down socks which are easy to measure, and quick. Also mittens and fingerless mittens. I rarely use a pattern but with magic loop I never have to worry about the circumference of anything I am making as it can adjust as you go along.
> 
> ...


Beautifully said in all regards, Designer1234.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

SwampCatNana said:


> Do you use the Magic Loop for flat work?


No... Magic Loop is only for knitting in the round. 
I do, however, use a circular needle to do all my flat work though. It is just easier to use ... I never drop a needle.... end of needle does not get caught on the arm of the chair...or poke a neighbor. It is also simpler to keep only circular needles instead of a set of straight needles and a set of circulars.
Jane


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## goldiebaco (Aug 9, 2011)

Adelaide, just knit it the way that is most comfortable for you. I also have a difficult time with knitting in the round and also the dpn's. I make my gloves flat and then sew the seam.
much easier for me, and that is what matters.


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## Doubledee (May 29, 2013)

GoodyTwoShoes said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6KccLlkTKzE
> I'm sorry the magic loop method isn't working out for you but please don't give up. Check out this YouTube video by Liat Gat that walks you through every single step of the magic loop. It is about 13 minutes long. She is very clear and thorough. Learning to do this will just open up so many more possibilities and increase your knowledge. Good luck!


I learned magic loop on Friday ight after watching Liat Gat's you tube demo. She is a very good teacher, and if you follow her directions, you will learn in no time. I was so excited! And it wasn't difficult at all. Don't give up! If I can do it, you can do it.


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## kiwi11 (Jul 27, 2011)

So easy peasy- and convenient once mastered-but it is a matter of personal use/taste?? once mastered, you will not revert back, and will use it for all work in round>>


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

Adelaide wrote:
i am more of a dope than you imagine- don't know how to use dp needles, nor how to use or what it means to use two circulars- just trying to do the best with my limited technique knowledge but it seems to me that i should simply donate these random skeims, thanks, adelaide


Designer1234 said:


> You are not a dope -- you are a person who is starting out her knitting life. We all have been there. We all have been leery about trying something new. We all have worried about failing. The best way is to forget feeling like that and 'go for it' If you want to learn how to use double pointed needles there are many on this forum who will be happy to help you. Just don't believe before you start that you can't do it -- you can. Each of us has started with the first stitch of our first project. there are some who love to do sweaters, some who love to do socks ( 5mmdpns) (check out her workshop in our archives at KP) It is #4 ,, there are others who want to do baby outfits, there are others who are quite content to do scarves, and hats, or mittens. No one on KP judges your ability or your inexperience -- every one of us has been there - done that. If you want to learn a new technique, just go for it. don't let yourself fail before you even start.
> 
> Good luck! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol:


I double Designer1234's comment...I have picked up two more methods in the past 6 months - just because I felt ready. Not everyone has the same ability because I'm a natural left writer who has taught herself crochet and knitting right handed. Quite a few more but this is about knitting...take your time - I don't use the sewing machine but I respect those who do.


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## orkchild (Jun 10, 2013)

Adelaide said:


> thanks, this is my problem: i know how to knit in the round but don't understand why i need to do this abstract magic loop and not simpleyc.o and join for circular knitting- that i can do, the whole dp needle and magic loop stuff is simply above my knitting knowledge, regards, adelaide


You don't! You can knit any magic loop pattern with in the round method of your choice . Magic loop just lets you use a longer circular needle so you don't have to have as many different circular needles in each size. It also lets you cast on and then knit pairs of mittens or socks at the same time.
But knitting is about joy and relaxation not stress do what feels good to you.


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

I hope this doesn't turn into another one of those nasty threads which is becoming the 'norm' on the KP forum anymore. :-(

For many years I could only use straight needles and then one day I picked up my dp and was able to knit a tiny sock.

I'm sure when I am ready I will learn how to use the magic loop and I have long circulars here waiting. My biggest problem is taking the time to learn right now. I always have something new on my needles. 

Ignore those who insist on one way and one yarn to use for projects. 

All of us are reaching for the same end results and there is no one way to get there. That's why we have exits on our roads


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

PaKnitter said:


> I hope this doesn't turn into another one of those nasty threads which is becoming the 'norm' on the KP forum anymore. :-(
> 
> For many years I could only use straight needles and then one day I picked up my dp and was able to knit a tiny sock.
> 
> ...


I agree l00% -- each of us has the right to decide for ourselves -- I have spent my life trying new things, some work for me and some don't - Some like to do precise beautiful lace - others like to make afghans -- no one is wrong in their choices -- magic loop, flat knitting, circulars. I just feel badly when people decide for others that something is not worthwhile. I hate to see people afraid to try new things.

Any way, it has been an interesting discussion. I hope that you will enjoy whatever method you want to use, and I hope you will give some new methods a chance as you might really like doing things in different ways.

I also hope that you allow yourself the freedom to try new things without giving up before you start. There is such a lot of satisfaction in deciding to learn any new technique and suddenly the light goes on and you understand the process and have learned a different ( not necessarily better - but useful way of doing something)


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## ikindaknit (Jun 27, 2013)

ladder on sides?
How do you avoid the "ladder"on the sides, when you join the yarn each time? please help.

beautiful golves


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## ikindaknit (Jun 27, 2013)

ladder on sides?
How do you avoid the "ladder"on the sides, when you join the yarn each time? please help.

beautiful golves


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

ikindaknit said:


> ladder on sides?
> How do you avoid the "ladder"on the sides, when you join the yarn each time? please help.
> 
> beautiful golves


This is another thing that has more than one answer. I always pulled my first stitch of each needle to tighten things up, and most help sites I've seen say that. But at some point, I read that when you pull the first one, it loosens up again when you get to the next stitch. Far more effective (for me!) is to give an extra tug of the *2nd* stitch* just after removing it from the left hook - it will tighten up the *1st* stitch beautifully. You don't need to pull so tightly that you choke it to death, because that can actually distort your 1st stitch, just a nice polite tightening up.

*i just tried it to see if I was explaining it right. Just before taking the stitch off the left needle, I give a small pull upward with my right hand (continental knitter).


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

Second stitch gets a tug from me.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jvallas said:


> This is another thing that has more than one answer. I always pulled my first stitch of each needle to tighten things up, and most help sites I've seen say that. But at some point, I read that when you pull the first one, it loosens up again when you get to the next stitch. Far more effective (for me!) is to give an extra tug of the *2nd* stitch just after removing it from the left hook - it will tighten up the *1st*stitch beautifully. You don't need to pull so tightly that you choke it to death, because that can actually distort your 1st stitch, just a nice polite tightening up.


I am glad you both posted this-- I have felt this was a better way for years. I discovered that method when I first started doing circular projects. and it does work very well.
I got doing it by accident. I have never heard anyone suggest that method until now. It really does work. We try different things until we find what works for us!

It seems to do the trick and the change from one needle to the other doesn't show. It is awesome when you think how many hundreds of thousands of people have paved the way in knitting and crochet. Surely many people over the centuries have found 'new' ways , which are once again 'new ways'. fascinating.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am glad you both posted this-- I have felt this was a better way for years.


I was starting to think I might have deluded myself into preferring this method! Good to know I'm not alone! :thumbup:


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## ikindaknit (Jun 27, 2013)

jvallas said:


> This is another thing that has more than one answer. I always pulled my first stitch of each needle to tighten things up, and most help sites I've seen say that. But at some point, I read that when you pull the first one, it loosens up again when you get to the next stitch. Far more effective (for me!) is to give an extra tug of the *2nd* stitch* just after removing it from the left hook - it will tighten up the *1st* stitch beautifully. You don't need to pull so tightly that you choke it to death, because that can actually distort your 1st stitch, just a nice polite tightening up.
> 
> *i just tried it to see if I was explaining it right. Just before taking the stitch off the left needle, I give a small pull upward with my right hand (continental knitter).


Thank you so much, thank you thank you thank you


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## KaitlanBlackrose (Jun 11, 2012)

When you do magic loop and want to kill off the ladders, pull the second stitch tighter. I always have a ladder on the first round but after about the third or fourth it will disappear.


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

I love dpns and would use them for anything that was supposed to be knit with magic loop. I can't stand wrangling those long cables for small round projects.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

ikindaknit said:


> ladder on sides?
> How do you avoid the "ladder"on the sides, when you join the yarn each time? please help.
> 
> beautiful golves


I always give an extra tug to both the first and second stitch ... no ladders.
The other factor (for me at least) was switching from tubular cables that were the same size as the needle...to any of the interchangeable needles. My fav for socks is my ChiaoGoo size 2 interchangeable bamboo needle with the red Twist cable. Since changing to these needles...less tugging of any of the stitches.
Jane


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## crazyquiltmom (Feb 28, 2011)

I think you just have to do what is most comfortable for you. Remember the sage advice, "There are no knitting police!" 

Sometimes I feel as though I get into a rut, unwilling to venture outside my comfort zone. So I have decided I will learn magic loop which is why I have been looking for videos. It seems that reading, watching, & doing are how I learn best. Besides, new challenges keep my middle aged brain active! 

It just seems to me that magic loop has a number of advantages that plain circular knitting or dpn knitting do not have. 

Several people have mentioned needing fewer lengths of needles in a size because one long needle can be used for just about any project. One long needle can be used for knitting items with a small circumference: sleeves, socks, hats, mittens, & gloves come to mind. Circular needles are expensive; therefore, needing fewer sounds like a plus to me.

I use dpn's but they are so fiddly to me. The points keep getting in the way; I feel like I am all thumbs. I have to pay close attention to how close to the tips my stitches are because I end up dropping stitches & becoming very frustrated. Knitting is supposed to be enjoyable, not a chore.

And I am by no means an expert, but it seems to me that any pattern that specifies magic loop should be able to be adapted to knitting on dpn's or the appropriate length circular if that is what you prefer. (Remember - no knitting police!)

My next challenge is eliminating the ladder that seems to be appearing where I split the stitches for each half of the cable. 

Oh well, we all are works in progress as is much of my knitting & quilting!


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## cbjlinda (May 25, 2011)

someone has already suggested eliminating the ladder by tightening your second stitch instead of your first stitch. might be worth a try. I also know that someone else told me that you can add an extra stitch when you are casting on and work that extra stitch as if you are binding off so that you are transferring the extra stitch to the right needle then slipping it back over to the left side not sure I am wording this right but someone else may know what I am referring too and can explain it better.


crazyquiltmom said:


> I think you just have to do what is most comfortable for you. Remember the sage advice, "There are no knitting police!"
> 
> Sometimes I feel as though I get into a rut, unwilling to venture outside my comfort zone. So I have decided I will learn magic loop which is why I have been looking for videos. It seems that reading, watching, & doing are how I learn best. Besides, new challenges keep my middle aged brain active!
> 
> ...


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## 02KNIT (Apr 23, 2012)

Knitting mittens with one cable needle will probably require 9" circular needle and might be harder to use than the magic loop method. Good luck. Happy knitting and don't give up.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

crazyquiltmom said:


> My next challenge is eliminating the ladder that seems to be appearing where I split the stitches for each half of the cable.


The tugging on the 2nd stitch (or 1st and 2nd suggested earlier) still works, even with Magic Loop.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

ikindaknit said:


> Thank you so much, thank you thank you thank you


You're welcome, welcome, welcome!


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## Dot700 (Jan 11, 2013)

I read on here sometime ago that using five needles instead of four eliminates the ladders. I tried it and it certainly worked for me.


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## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Adelaide said:


> ok- here is another problem I'm having -i know that there have been discussions about the magic loop but quite honestly i simply avoid any interchange that has the word magic but alas, here i am: cleaning out my stash i found lots of matching, but few like skeins, so i thought i'd try and make fingerless mitts- but alas, all of the patterns i like call for a magic loop c.o
> went to utube and it is so complex to learn, for me, that i am overwhelmed, i don't understand why i can't simply co for the round knitting, join and then work pattern, do i really need to learn this technique for what i thought was a simple solution for my abundance, please help and any advice would be very appreciated, still organizing the stash- happy holiday week-end, regards, adelaide


No, not really, you don't actually have to. It's just knitting in the round - do it any way you like, any way you feel comfortable.


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## HandyFamily (Sep 30, 2011)

Dot700 said:


> I read on here sometime ago that using five needles instead of four eliminates the ladders. I tried it and it certainly worked for me.


I know what 5 dpns are for, but... what are 4 used for?


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

HandyFamily said:


> I know what 5 dpns are for, but... what are 4 used for?


Same, just a matter of preference, unless a pattern has a specific reason for one or the other; e.g., a sock pattern that has exactly 4 repeats of a stitch pattern might put one of each repeat on a separate needle (so 4 needles with yarn, one to work the stitches).


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## sheila kay (Jan 2, 2013)

there are lots of patterns for fingerless mits on the web, just google. I made several pairs early this year for my grandchildren and also put a flap on that can cover or uncover the fingers as needed

Sheila


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi there.

There are several "magic" things in working with yarn.

If I remember right, "magic circle" is a technique used in crochet to make it so that the center of a circular item doesn't have a "hole" in it.

With knitting, the three I know of are: 

1, "magic ball" -- joining several lengths of different colors of yarn, then winding the resulting strand up into a ball so that whatever you make is wildly colorful.

2, "magic knot" -- a way of joining two ends of yarn together, which I think it great, but I'm not a knitting purist. 

And 3, "magic loop" -- a way of knitting in the round with a very long circular needle that, to me, is way too fiddly, but lots of folks love.

If you're making something smallish -- like a hat -- it's easy to use 16" needles until you get into the decreases and the diameter gets too small to work with comfortably, then knit the stitches onto DPN's -- though some people at this point start using two circular needles. If the item is even more smallish -- like socks or gloves or fingers puppets -- using a set of DPN's (either 4 or 5) is practical. 

You'll enjoy knitting the most if you do whatever is comfortable for you. Trying out unfamiliar techniques can be fun and help you find new, perhaps easier, ways to do things. But don't fret if you just can't quite get the hang of something. Go back to what feels comfortable and enjoy yourself.


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## ikindaknit (Jun 27, 2013)

JTM said:


> I always give an extra tug to both the first and second stitch ... no ladders.
> The other factor (for me at least) was switching from tubular cables that were the same size as the needle...to any of the interchangeable needles. My fav for socks is my ChiaoGoo size 2 interchangeable bamboo needle with the red Twist cable. Since changing to these needles...less tugging of any of the stitches.
> Jane


 would love to get the bamboo with red cable, please tell m where I can get them on line. thank you.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

ikindaknit said:


> would love to get the bamboo with red cable, please tell m where I can get them on line. thank you.


handsomefibers.com is where I got my bamboo needles. They have fast delivery, great customer service...often free shipping. 
They also offer 10% discount on future sales.
I also have ordered ChiaoGoo fixed needles for the size 1 and 1.5 ... they are just too tiny for the interchangeable connnectors. I know about their great customer service since that tiny size 1 arrived with one of the needles broken ... I called and within a couple of days ... there was a new needle wrapped in even more protective packaging. No need to return the broken one... just instant replacement.
Jane


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

JTM said:


> handsomefibers.com is where I got my bamboo needles. They have fast delivery, great customer service...often free shipping.
> They also offer 10% discount on future sales.
> I also have ordered ChiaoGoo fixed needles for the size 1 and 1.5 ... they are just too tiny for the interchangeable connnectors. I know about their great customer service since that tiny size 1 arrived with one of the needles broken ... I called and within a couple of days ... there was a new needle wrapped in even more protective packaging. No need to return the broken one... just instant replacement.
> Jane


I love mine, too, for times when I don't want slippery needles. For bamboo, they have a very nice point--I'm referring to the interchangeables. If I decide I need smaller sizes, and I probably will, I'll go for the fixed needles of the same brand and source.


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

To me, the real "magic" in yarn work is that a "string" can turn into a fabric that turns into all the wonderful things we make.


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## ikindaknit (Jun 27, 2013)

Thank you!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Yarnie.One said:


> To me, the real "magic" in yarn work is that a "string" can turn into a fabric that turns into all the wonderful things we make.


I've never gotten over the awe I feel when the string becomes fabric. The transformation from skein to fabric does seem magical, especially when using variegated or self striping yarns.


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## Pearlspins (Jan 29, 2013)

You can also use 2 circular needles for almost anything that magic loop or dpns are used for. I also use magic loop for everything. Maybe you need someone to help u instead watching on u tube. Maybe some day you will give it a try.


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