# What does the salt and vinegar do?



## books (Jan 11, 2013)

About to set the colors in my facecloths (cotton yarn) that I finished yesterday for a friend. I've looked up the info on how to do this. What does the salt and vinegar do in setting color? Can you forgo the salt if you don't want to use it?


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## Simone54 (Oct 9, 2013)

I didnt know that I should set the colour. I am interested to hear more


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

I know that cotton yarn has a tendency to fade or run. I've heard of setting the color with water, vinegar and salt, but I'm curious as to what the vinegar and salt actually do. I know vinegar softens, but SALT????? Just curious to see if anyone can explain.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

I'll be interested as well so I'll keep reading this post.


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## fergablu2 (Apr 30, 2011)

Salt and vinegar can both be used as dye fixatives in cotton yarn.

http://www.allnaturaldyeing.com/mordants-and-fixatives/


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

That was fascinating thank you.


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## yourmother306 (Nov 30, 2011)

Never heard of the salt. I wash with vinegar. It really does help.


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## Gerripho (Dec 7, 2013)

Somewhere, and I can't remember where, I thought I heard it was vinegar and Epsom salts. So, in a long stretch of making dishcloths I bought some. Haven't tried it yet as I'm out of a dishcloth mood. I sure hope someone who really knows will chime in here.


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## Viwstitcher (Jul 29, 2013)

After reading about not using fabric softener on yarn, I tried just vinegar a few weeks ago and am a complete convert. I'm not sure what salt could add.


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## rainie (Jan 12, 2013)

We need a chemist. The word mordant flashed in my head & I went to Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant Comments from dyers, please.


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## Alpaca Farmer (Jan 19, 2011)

Citric acid can also be used. I use it to set the dye in my alpaca fiber.


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## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


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## quiltdaze37 (Nov 16, 2013)

it didn't work with wOol I tried it


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## bobctwn65 (Jul 27, 2012)

I have some dishcloths soaking in vinegar now we shall see if it works...I sure hope it does..


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## knitster475 (Apr 30, 2014)

In commercially dyed yarns, you don't have to set the dye. That should have been done in the dyeing process. Sometimes if the yarn is not rinsed well after dyeing, there will be excess unabsorbed dye which comes out in the wash. 

Anything dyed will fade over time with washing, so best thing to do is use a gentle wash in tepid or cold water and use a soap or detergent for delicate garments. Harsh regular laundry detergents are the worst culprit in causing fading.


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## Gerripho (Dec 7, 2013)

knitster475 said:


> In commercially dyed yarns, you don't have to set the dye. That should have been done in the dyeing process. Sometimes if the yarn is not rinsed well after dyeing, there will be excess unabsorbed dye which comes out in the wash.


Thanks for that info on yarn not being rinsed well. That must have been what happened with my Plymouth Neon Now sock yarn. I tossed the finished socks in tepid water for their first bath and half an hour later the water was super saturated *PINK*. One look at it and I thought my new socks had disolved in the water! They're still pink, tho. Is there anyway to set color in wool? I've not heard of anything.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

books said:


> About to set the colors in my facecloths (cotton yarn) that I finished yesterday for a friend. I've looked up the info on how to do this. What does the salt and vinegar do in setting color? Can you forgo the salt if you don't want to use it?


Never heard of using salt with vinegar for dying. I would think it would change the color because it's a different type of mordant.

White vinegar, though...not cider vinegar.

Salt and vinegar together only belong on potato chips and french fries.


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## Carole Jeanne (Nov 18, 2011)

Vinegar plus salt will also remove the tarnish from copper


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## Barn-dweller (Nov 12, 2013)

I remember when you used to by dye to colour things at home you always had to add salt. Don't know if you still do these days.


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## Teriwm (Jun 18, 2012)

You can skip the salt but you'll lose more color as salt does some sort of chemical alchemy.


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## louisezervas (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you for the info!


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## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

When you think of a water softener you add salt to them and this is drinking water in your house. The salt softens the water. So I say that is why you use the salt to soften your water. If you have a water softener in your home you shouldn't need the salt with the vinegar. So to answer you queation Salt is to soften your water.


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## Anna3703 (Mar 4, 2012)

Vinegar is enough....you dont need salt. (Dont know the chemistry behind this, but that's it)


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

I've always heard of vinegar setting the colors, but not salt.


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## shoah (Dec 29, 2012)

I have worked with dyes for many years using either the salt OR the vinegar to set the dye. Salt is supposed to leave a brighter color, vinegar a softer color.


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## oneofthegriffins (Aug 28, 2012)

DonnieK said:


> All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


My mother said to put a spoon in my mouth when cutting onions! I don't know that it helped with the tears, but it did keep me quiet while cutting them. I still do that!


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## imaxian (Dec 17, 2011)

books said:


> About to set the colors in my facecloths (cotton yarn) that I finished yesterday for a friend. I've looked up the info on how to do this. What does the salt and vinegar do in setting color? Can you forgo the salt if you don't want to use it?


If you read the article in the first link, it's salt OR vinegar not salt and vinegar. I agree the dyes used now are different from those used years ago, however there are cotton yarns that do indeed run especially red. I have a dish cloth my mother made that makes my dish water a lovely pink!

The comment about mother and grandmother reminds me of a cute story .... but I won't go into that now


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## mama879 (Jan 27, 2011)

I use vinegar in my rinse cycle it helps get rid of any soap residue that stays on the cloths and makes them fade faster. It just brings out the colors and keeps them brighter. As for setting the dye Well like some one else said it should be done just after the yarn was dyed. Vinegar is a great disinfectant to I have a bottle on my counter for cleaning my counters cutting boards etc. I usually have the urge to eat salad after cleaning my house. lol lol


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## NellieKnitter (Sep 10, 2012)

bobctwn65 said:


> I have some dishcloths soaking in vinegar now we shall see if it works...I sure hope it does..


I made some dishcloths with red, dark brown, rust yarn and soaked them in vinegar and water and they have held their color after repeated washings--much to my surprise! I used a higher ratio of vinegar to water and soaked longer than than usually suggested--I don't know if that made a difference.


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## JoanDL (Aug 26, 2013)

According to the water softener people, the salt in the water softener is to remove the hard water deposits on the resin beads that the water runs through before it gets to your tap. It is only used when the machine is regenerating, usually at night when you are sleeping so there is no salt in the water you drink.


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

thanks for this resource



fergablu2 said:


> Salt and vinegar can both be used as dye fixatives in cotton yarn.
> 
> http://www.allnaturaldyeing.com/mordants-and-fixatives/


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

Look up "mordant."


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## Ginia1951 (May 17, 2014)

I have always used vinegar in water to fix the dye when I get yarn that is naturally dyed. Also, remember tie dying t-shirts as a kid? We always used vinegar in the water to set the dye so that the wonderful patterns would not bleed and be lost.

A bit of different information:

For those of you that have delicate fabrics or just want to go more natural get soap nuts to use to wash your clothes. Since I have started using them my clothes and hand made knits/crocheted clothing have been brighter and softer. You do not need to add anything in the dryer to keep the fabrics soft and when I use them to wash my knits they seem to block better and tighter. Growing up in Asia we used the to wash clothes all the time. When I moved here I started using what everyone else used. I have gone back to my "roots" and use them almost exclusively and my clothes are softer and brighter.

I get mine from a local vendor that I get my natural soaps and bug spray from as well. I am going to post her page here and say that everything she makes is top quality. If you are like me her anti bug spray is wonderful. I am the one person that if there is a mosquito in 1000 miles I am the one to get bit. I am mildly allergic to them now (the blood thinner they inject) and nothing worked to protect me from them. I got her spray and have been able to go back to hiking with my husband. YEAY!!

http://www.va-soaps.com/index.html


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## Roni Masse (Jan 28, 2014)

Very interesting article! I, too had to look up 'mordant'.


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

fergablu2 said:


> Salt and vinegar can both be used as dye fixatives in cotton yarn.
> 
> http://www.allnaturaldyeing.com/mordants-and-fixatives/


Hmmm, this site says to soak/boil cotton cloth or yarn before you dye it. Hadn't heard that.

Interesting thread here. We are getting ready to do a day of natural dying. It's been years since I've done any, so am researching all I can find out. Wonder if salt or vinegar works on wool?


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## Elaine3975 (Feb 9, 2014)

I have always just used the vinegar, even on a new pair of jeans that I did not want to fade and it works great. Never heard of the salt part though and I've been doing the vinegar bit for I'm guess close to 30 years.


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## Conchalea (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm a retired chemistry teacher who always did tie-dye with students as part of water chemistry. The vinegar or citric acid open up the fibers & help the dye molecules bond with them. When we tie-dyed cotton tee shirts we soaked them prior to dyeing in sodium carbonate (soda ash) to open the fibers. The sodium or magnesium in the salts could act as an agent to complete the reaction. If agents such as these are not used the dye sits on top of the fibers & doesn't bond to them. So it washes off or runs to mix them all together. This causes a muddy look if too different colors settle on an area.


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## Valanteen (Sep 28, 2011)

The acidity sets the dye. Ages ago they used urine to set the dye. American Indians used urine to soften and bleach hides.
I always soak my black washables in salt water before first easing. Sets the dye.


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## YarnStalker (May 30, 2011)

In my college days not so long ago (20 years) I had an entire semester devoted to hand dying fabric and yarn.
We didn't use the salt or vinegar. Instead we pretreated our yarn by soaking it in a PH adjuster purchased in the swimming pool supply section.
Then, the dye was mixed with a teaspoon or so of urea powder dissolved in cold water.
The actual fixative was our oven. We placed cotton fabric on the rack, put a small metal bowl of water in the bottom, set the temp at 250 and the timer at 20 minutes.
I only lose color during the final rinse which goes like this - start at the coldest water temp you have and keep rinsing until no more color comes out. Up the temp gradually while rinsing until you get to the hottest temp then do the same back down to the coldest again.
I've never had any dye come out afterwards.
All of our supplies were purchased through Dharma Trading or ProChem. Both have websites and catalogs you can purchase. I only use the professional dyes now since they work so much better than anything else. Dying yarn is another of my addictions so I buy white natural fibers by the cone and have stacks of them here around the house.


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## dauntiekay (Jan 18, 2014)

oneofthegriffins said:


> My mother said to put a spoon in my mouth when cutting onions! I don't know that it helped with the tears, but it did keep me quiet while cutting them. I still do that!


Could we possibly get a picture of that? lol


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## beav1 (Nov 14, 2012)

I can't really explain the details of the process, but I do know that it does work. My mother did this years ago when buying a cotton top that may have had red or some other bright color, to set the color before washing in the machine. The colors never ran into each other after being set. This summer, I did a red, white, and blue dishcloth and soaked it before giving it as a gift, the colors did not run and they are still fairly bright.


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## cullenbe (Jul 3, 2011)

Interesting, thanks.


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## Deemeegee (Mar 9, 2013)

I think it fixes the color. We do it when coloring Easter eggs don't we?!


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## 1grammyshouse (May 16, 2014)

I have a stack of new dishcloths that I would like to set. Do I have to soak them one by one, and do I have to boil them in the vinegar water. Also, how long do I soak them.


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

When I was in High School, Mum had to make my uniform which was a navy blue cotton tunic and white blouse for the summer. She didn't have the correct colour for the tunic and we had to dye it, so to stop the dye from running/bleeding we had to rinse the tunic in salt water. that stopped it from bleeding. This was the dyes back in the late 1960's I would have thought that they would have been made more colourfast by now.


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## gramknits (Aug 3, 2011)

Very interesting topic. I've learned a lot. Thanks!


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## retiredR (Mar 1, 2013)

I have always used salt, even for brand new bought item, if I thought the color might fade I always soaked it in cold salt water. And it always worked. I don't know why, but it did.


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## Conchalea (Dec 30, 2013)

susankschutz said:


> In my college days not so long ago (20 years) I had an entire semester devoted to hand dying fabric and yarn.
> We didn't use the salt or vinegar. Instead we pretreated our yarn by soaking it in a PH adjuster purchased in the swimming pool supply section.
> Then, the dye was mixed with a teaspoon or so of urea powder dissolved in cold water.
> The actual fixative was our oven. We placed cotton fabric on the rack, put a small metal bowl of water in the bottom, set the temp at 250 and the timer at 20 minutes.
> ...


At school, we also bought our dyes, urea, & sodium carbonate from Dharma & Pro Chemical. The urea mixed with the dye helps the dye dissolve better, as it tends to clump instead of dissolve.


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## settermom (Dec 19, 2012)

I have used either vinegar OR salt for many years---to set the color(s) and prevent running /bleeding. The vinegar works well enough and does soften the fabric nicely---as well as freshen the scent of the fabric. I prefer the salt for a sure fire fix of the colors, however. It seems to work better. When living in the Southwest United States and shopping for very inexpensive treasures across the border in Mexican border towns I was was told to wash all clothing items before using (well OF COURSE I was doing THAT)and to soak the items in cold salted water for 10 to 30 minutes before the washing. The wool items I had dry cleaned. Most of the items, however, were woven cottons and the dyes HAD to be set or they would bleed terribly. Worked like a charm---permanently.


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

Thank you, susankschutz, for the information. Some friends and I are getting ready to do a day of natural dying (are ARE medieval reenactors, after all) and this is really helpful information.

Besides Dharma Trading, we also buy supplies from Earth Guild. Haven't ever tried Prochem.


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## bethnegrey (Aug 24, 2012)

fergablu2 said:


> Salt and vinegar can both be used as dye fixatives in cotton yarn.
> 
> http://www.allnaturaldyeing.com/mordants-and-fixatives/


Fergablu2, you're genius! Thanks for the link -- I'll be sharing this one


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

Please Google MORDANT and check the Wikipedia article. This is a very complex and interesting topic. People all over the world have been dealing with these issues for centuries. Some of what they have found to work does work in the long run; other substances have long-term negative effects. It's also interesting to see how dyers have used easily available substances.


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

What "fixatives", if any, are useful for dyed wool? I know wool have little scales that I assume the dye gets under, but is this enough?


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## knitismything (Dec 4, 2011)

I didn't know about adding salt to vinegar to set the color, now I know. Usually I only use vinegar.


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## YarnStalker (May 30, 2011)

Dharma is the best. I love their catalogs with their sense of humor and they always play e-mail tricks on April Fools Day.

I bought more dye from them earlier this year that I have yarn ready for. Someday I'll get that dyed. 

I prefer dying during the summer so I can hang it outside to dry but my grapevines took over my shepard's hook this year. I was so excited when I saw we were actually going to get grapes.

The tags on the grapes say "green seedless table grapes" and we got purple grapes with seeds - all four vines.

Sheesh. :?


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

gramknits said:


> Very interesting topic. I've learned a lot. Thanks!


You've just learned a lot of half truths.

The things mentioned here are true _IF_ you are using a cellulose fiber, or _IF_ you are using a protein fiber, or _IF_ acid dyes were used, or _IF_ fiber reactive dyes were used or _IF_ a dozen other variables which aren't specified were used.

Salt and Vinegar or citric acid help _IF_ you have a protein fiber that was dyed with acid dyes! They don't help with _any_ other fibers and _any_ other dying process. In fact, they will _attack_ cotton and other cellulose fibers and those fibers won't last as long.

Each recommendation helps _IF_ you have a certain fiber and a specific dye method. But none of these recommendations includes the information about what fiber and dye it's good for. Unless you know _exactly_ what kind of dye was used, _and_ the information that was left out of each tip, you risk doing more harm than good.

When I use acid dyes, I use vinegar, and sometimes salt,which is a leveler, when used with acid dyes. But I would _never_ use vinegar on cotton!

Here's some general information:

Wool and other protein fibers are naturally acid, like your skin. In fact, it's almost exactly the same pH. Acid processes are safe with them. You should _never_ use anything alkaline with protein fibers, because it will damage them.

Cotton and other cellulose fibers are alkaline, and are _damaged_ by using acid (like vinegar) on them. You will shorten the life of your cotton clothes if you use vinegar on them! Cottons are often dyed using fiber reactive dyes, which you will strip, just a little, if you use vinegar.

The information here is good for a specific set of fiber and dye combinations, but those fiber and dye combinations are _not specified_ in any of the tips. Without knowing how your fiber was dyed, you may do more harm than good.

Usually, if you do something that strips some of the dye, it will look "brighter." This is not really a good thing. If you do it repeatedly, your color will fade, and it won't take many washes to do it.

So following these tips is playing Russian roulette with the color on your clothes. If you happen to have the right combination of fiber and dye, it will help.

If you don't, it will significantly shorten the life of your color and fiber.

Use any of these tips at your own peril!


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## knitwit42 (Apr 23, 2011)

Carole Jeanne said:


> Vinegar plus salt will also remove the tarnish from copper


That's how I was taught how to clean my copper bottom pots & pans.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Here we go again If the cloth is cotton you need to use the salt to have the colors take evenly. You DO NOT need the vinegar. Vinegar is for animal fibers and nylon. Would every one who ever think that they will dye something some time please make a note of this. Salt for cotton and vinegar for animal or nylon fiber.


books said:


> About to set the colors in my facecloths (cotton yarn) that I finished yesterday for a friend. I've looked up the info on how to do this. What does the salt and vinegar do in setting color? Can you forgo the salt if you don't want to use it?


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

Thanks lostarts and sockyarn for your information.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Never heard of using salt with vinegar for dying. I would think it would change the color because it's a different type of mordant.
> 
> White vinegar, though...not cider vinegar.
> 
> Salt and vinegar together only belong on potato chips and french fries.


Hear! Hear!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay fergablu2 Let me get you straightened out on this. The link is for NATURAL dyes. You do not want to get into this unless you are going to make it a life time operation. It is very complicated and a lot of work. Go with prepared dye from mail order or from yarn shops that carry such things. Salt will not set cotton or plant fiber yarn when natural dying. You need mordants to do this plus glubbers salt. It is used to make the dye take evenly. If yarn is animal fiber then you use vinegar when using a prepared dye powder. If you really want to get into the natural fibers then there are books and books out on the subject and I would recommenced reading about a dozen of them before beginning and wish you the best of luck. Remember to always work safely and wear a proper dust mask and gloves while handling powdered dyes and mordants. I found natural dyeing to be great fun, but was a lot of work and dose take up a bit of space plus the cost and storage of equipment. If you have more questions PM me.


fergablu2 said:


> Salt and vinegar can both be used as dye fixatives in cotton yarn.
> 
> http://www.allnaturaldyeing.com/mordants-and-fixatives/


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

I have and I have and I have.


Gerripho said:


> Somewhere, and I can't remember where, I thought I heard it was vinegar and Epsom salts. So, in a long stretch of making dishcloths I bought some. Haven't tried it yet as I'm out of a dishcloth mood. I sure hope someone who really knows will chime in here.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Mordants help bind the dye to fiber as well as affect the color. Green viteral (sp) brings out green color when using green plant fiber to get a green color. Blue viteral (sp) will bring out blues. Iron will darken a color and chrome will Britten a color. There are many others. There are books and books on the subject. great reading if you are interested.


rainie said:


> We need a chemist. The word mordant flashed in my head & I went to Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant Comments from dyers, please.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Vinegar is a little cheaper to use. As long as it is an acid it will work.


Alpaca Farmer said:


> Citric acid can also be used. I use it to set the dye in my alpaca fiber.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

A salad would have been a better use of that vinegar.


bobctwn65 said:


> I have some dishcloths soaking in vinegar now we shall see if it works...I sure hope it does..


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Thanks for bring that up.


knitster475 said:


> In commercially dyed yarns, you don't have to set the dye. That should have been done in the dyeing process. Sometimes if the yarn is not rinsed well after dyeing, there will be excess unabsorbed dye which comes out in the wash.
> 
> Anything dyed will fade over time with washing, so best thing to do is use a gentle wash in tepid or cold water and use a soap or detergent for delicate garments. Harsh regular laundry detergents are the worst culprit in causing fading.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Your socks are fine. There were not rinsed well , but if it would make you feel better then soak them in one tablespoon of white vinegar to a quart of warm water. w


Gerripho said:


> Thanks for that info on yarn not being rinsed well. That must have been what happened with my Plymouth Neon Now sock yarn. I tossed the finished socks in tepid water for their first bath and half an hour later the water was super saturated *PINK*. One look at it and I thought my new socks had disolved in the water! They're still pink, tho. Is there anyway to set color in wool? I've not heard of anything.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Those are Union dyes and it was to make the dye take evenly. Think Rit Dye.


Barn-dweller said:


> I remember when you used to by dye to colour things at home you always had to add salt. Don't know if you still do these days.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

It would be best to look up info on subject and not rely on guesses.


Ciyona said:


> When you think of a water softener you add salt to them and this is drinking water in your house. The salt softens the water. So I say that is why you use the salt to soften your water. If you have a water softener in your home you shouldn't need the salt with the vinegar. So to answer you queation Salt is to soften your water.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

For animal and nylon only.


Anna3703 said:


> Vinegar is enough....you dont need salt. (Dont know the chemistry behind this, but that's it)


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

No. If you read up on it you will fined the correct answer. Interesting subject.


shoah said:


> I have worked with dyes for many years using either the salt OR the vinegar to set the dye. Salt is supposed to leave a brighter color, vinegar a softer color.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Soaking cotton its the get any residue off of it before adding the dye. If you do not you can get a very blotchy dye job. You need to do more research before jumping into the natural dye project. Nothing quite as helpful as good research if you do not have an expert standing over you to help you out.


Medieval Reenactor said:


> Hmmm, this site says to soak/boil cotton cloth or yarn before you dye it. Hadn't heard that.
> 
> Interesting thread here. We are getting ready to do a day of natural dying. It's been years since I've done any, so am researching all I can find out. Wonder if salt or vinegar works on wool?


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Thank you , thank you, thank you. I hope that every one who wants to dye something will read your post.


Conchalea said:


> I'm a retired chemistry teacher who always did tie-dye with students as part of water chemistry. The vinegar or citric acid open up the fibers & help the dye molecules bond with them. When we tie-dyed cotton tee shirts we soaked them prior to dyeing in sodium carbonate (soda ash) to open the fibers. The sodium or magnesium in the salts could act as an agent to complete the reaction. If agents such as these are not used the dye sits on top of the fibers & doesn't bond to them. So it washes off or runs to mix them all together. This causes a muddy look if too different colors settle on an area.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Thank you for the input about the where to purchase dye. That method only works for a particular dye. They all have their own formulas.


susankschutz said:


> In my college days not so long ago (20 years) I had an entire semester devoted to hand dying fabric and yarn.
> We didn't use the salt or vinegar. Instead we pretreated our yarn by soaking it in a PH adjuster purchased in the swimming pool supply section.
> Then, the dye was mixed with a teaspoon or so of urea powder dissolved in cold water.
> The actual fixative was our oven. We placed cotton fabric on the rack, put a small metal bowl of water in the bottom, set the temp at 250 and the timer at 20 minutes.
> ...


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Food grade dye.


Deemeegee said:


> I think it fixes the color. We do it when coloring Easter eggs don't we?!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Save your vinegar for a salad. Give them a quick wash in hand dish washing liquid and any excess dye should come out plus any sizing that is on the yarn that keeps it from being absorbent.


1grammyshouse said:


> I have a stack of new dishcloths that I would like to set. Do I have to soak them one by one, and do I have to boil them in the vinegar water. Also, how long do I soak them.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

They are if they are if the cloth dose not come from a third -world country. They use cheap dyes and cut corners.


flitri said:


> When I was in High School, Mum had to make my uniform which was a navy blue cotton tunic and white blouse for the summer. She didn't have the correct colour for the tunic and we had to dye it, so to stop the dye from running/bleeding we had to rinse the tunic in salt water. that stopped it from bleeding. This was the dyes back in the late 1960's I would have thought that they would have been made more colourfast by now.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Well if you are going to be true to the Medieval times then you need to use urine from a pregnant woman on your wool. The only place I get mordants from is Prochem thanks for the other name.


Medieval Reenactor said:


> Thank you, susankschutz, for the information. Some friends and I are getting ready to do a day of natural dying (are ARE medieval reenactors, after all) and this is really helpful information.
> 
> Besides Dharma Trading, we also buy supplies from Earth Guild. Haven't ever tried Prochem.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

No, It dose not get under the scales. It binds with the fiber permanently. If you are using a dye product that is an acid dye it should call for using vinegar. Follow the instructions and you should not go wrong.


Medieval Reenactor said:


> What "fixatives", if any, are useful for dyed wool? I know wool have little scales that I assume the dye gets under, but is this enough?


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Go back and read all of the post and commit them to memory.


knitismything said:


> I didn't know about adding salt to vinegar to set the color, now I know. Usually I only use vinegar.


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## coffeymug (Jul 14, 2013)

lol! You just make me laugh loud and long!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Now you have caused people to be afraid. If you are going to do this then at least direct them to the info they need. No the sky is not falling.


lostarts said:


> You've just learned a lot of half truths.
> 
> The things mentioned here are true _IF_ you are using a cellulose fiber, or _IF_ you are using a protein fiber, or _IF_ acid dyes were used, or _IF_ fiber reactive dyes were used or _IF_ a dozen other variables which aren't specified were used.
> 
> ...


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## ann44 (Oct 14, 2011)

I've always used salt to fix colour- even for a bought product from which the colour has run when being washed. Adding salt to the rinsing water really helps.


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

DonnieK said:


> All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


But what do you use, Donnie. How do you do it?


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## ssk1953 (Jan 29, 2012)

For as long as I can remember, my mother always used salt to "set" the dye whenever she made us something that was likely to fade in the wash. So I have continued to follow her rule and it definitely works. We never used vinegar, only salt. I always soak anything I make with cotton yarn in salt water after I make them. They keep their color a lot longer that way. I only use tepid or lukewarm salt water bath because hot water can cause whatever you're soaking to shrink. Thirty minutes to an hour is as long as I ever soak something but I have let it go overnight and that was fine. This method has always worked for me as it did for my mom.


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## flamingo (Jun 23, 2013)

I've dyed wool yarn with food coloring and use vinegar as a mordant, that sets the color and helps the yarn absorb the dye. I don't know about salt.


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## DSouthard01 (Sep 10, 2011)

ssk1953 said:


> For as long as I can remember, my mother always used salt to "set" the dye whenever she made us something that was likely to fade in the wash. So I have continued to follow her rule and it definitely works. We never used vinegar, only salt. I always soak anything I make with cotton yarn in salt water after I make them. They keep their color a lot longer that way. I only use tepid or lukewarm salt water bath because hot water can cause whatever you're soaking to shrink. Thirty minutes to an hour is as long as I ever soak something but I have let it go overnight and that was fine. This method has always worked for me as it did for my mom.[/quote
> 
> What's the ratio between salt and water?
> Donna K


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

sockyarn said:


> Those are Union dyes and it was to make the dye take evenly. Think Rit Dye.


This works as a leveler with acid dyes, too.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

sockyarn said:


> Now you have caused people to be afraid. If you are going to do this then at least direct them to the info they need. No the sky is not falling.


This is such a large subject, I didn't think I could cover it in one post.

Most of the posts are correct, but only for very precise circumstances, and those circumstances aren't specified.


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## Suesknits (Feb 11, 2011)

great info!


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## 9sueseiber (Oct 29, 2011)

DonnieK said:


> All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


Could you please tell the formulaand how to set the colors in cotton yarn? I have seen this many times but didn't save it I guess. Can't find it anyway. Sure don't feel like slogging through umpteen pages of print to find the solution. Thanks in advance.
Sue


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## Marlys (Mar 15, 2011)

books said:


> About to set the colors in my facecloths (cotton yarn) that I finished yesterday for a friend. I've looked up the info on how to do this. What does the salt and vinegar do in setting color? Can you forgo the salt if you don't want to use it?


The salt will set the color so it does not run when washed again later
. I use about one cup for the first setting after that you should be ok.


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## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

Why not just google "salt as a mordant" or "vinegar as a mordant" and get some accurate information from commercial dyers and producers of dye? Below is a direct quote from one such business. 
Griffin Dyeworks & Fiber Arts

Understanding Mordants and Modifiers

Salt

SALT: ClNa

Description: Modifier of crystalline granules or powder evaporated from dry lakes, underground caves, the sea; used Since pre-history as a food flavoring; valuable trade item throughout the centuries.
Other Names: Sodium Chloride, bay salt, common salt, halite, halide, ice cream salt, pickling salt, rock salt, sea salt, table salt, [ME] sealt, salin, salten, [OE] sealt, [Ger] salz, [L] sal, [Gk] hals, [OE] s(e)altan, [ON] salta
Dye Use: Neutral catalyst, rinse fixative, dye speed-up, brings out reds, blues; makes greens more yellow; useful for indigo vats if darker colors are desired. Best salt to use: rock, pickling, or ice cream salt with no additives. "Salting" is adding a pinch to the pot to even out dye colors.
Best On: All fibers
Dye Recipe: 1/2-1 c in 1 gal water; salt + vinegar = stronger colors, especially with iron mordant, particularly with purple dyes; salt + baking soda = good greens, darker yellows; salt + ammonia = soft greens with copper mordant
Safety: No danger unless you are on a sodium-free diet. Salt can kill small animals.
Disposal: Pour down sink
Alternative: Table salt has added sugar (to make it pour better) and often has iodine in it, which can affect delicate colors, so it is not as effective for dye work as rock salt, Kosher salt, or ice cream salt.
Source: Grocery store

CODES: c = cup; gal = gallon; lb = pound (weight); tbsp = Tablespoon; tsp = teaspoon / [AF] Anglo-French; [Ar] Arabic; [AS] Anglo-Saxon; [Dan] Danish; [Du] Dutch; [Fr] French; [Ger] German; [Gk] Greek; [It] Italian; [L] Classical Latin; [LL] Late Latin; [ME] Middle English; [ML] Modern Latin; [OE] Old English; [OF] Old French; [ON] Old Norse; [OS] Old Saxon; [Port] Portuguese; [Sp] Spanish; [Sw] Swedish / CE = Common Era; BCE = Before Common Era


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## MaggiePringlemeir (Jun 3, 2012)

Thank you, Jo,

I've been wondering when or if these types of basic information to come out. Cotton does not take an acid dye, it needs a fiber reactive dye. But as all of us well know, cotton takes a stain. Think back to children's teeshirts and kool-aide! 

One last comment. I am one of those people with super delicate skin. Fabric softeners, even dryer sheets, or laundry products with fragrances or dyes make my skin itch. Some of them cause big welts. I now use only fragrance and dye free soaps. Funny, they are usually the best value in price, too. My derm doc told me that soap residue is what makes your clothes harsh and scratchey. Vinegar cut through the crud and lifts it out of your clothes. So for me, I wash twice with soap, rinse well and then reset the washer and put in a healthy couple of glugs of white vinegar in the wash cycle and let it run through the entire cycle. Yes, the ecologists hate me and say I am wasting water, but it saves me from needing expensive rx potions for my skin. And my clothes stay nice for a much longer time. I'm wearing shorts and tops that are over 10 years old and they still look nice. 

Oh, and my gran told me to put a child's water pistol filled with vinegar in a zippie bag in my handbag -- no match for an uzi, but it will stop a growling dog from attacking. Ha!!


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## Izziebear (Dec 31, 2011)

O.K. Totally off subject, but when I read the heading, my immediate thought was fish and chips.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

MaggiePringlemeir, I have allergies to almost everything, too.

Your vinegar rinse should work on things washed with real soap, but there are detergents that are formulated to leave nothing in the clothes after washing. The trick is finding them. And you can't always rely on what their manufacturers say about their products.


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

You can only use vinegar if you wish. When I with food color, or kool-aid, I only use vinegar, and I have never had dye run or come out, but I am dying wool, not trying to set the dye in cotton.


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## NZ Shirl (Sep 29, 2012)

The salt used for setting colours should also be 'common salt' (plain salt) not ' iodized salt' - (table salt)


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## Karenno1 (Mar 17, 2014)

Salt is supposed to set the color and stop it from running never used vinegar only for me chips ,stings, and windows


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## cherylthompson (Feb 18, 2013)

JoanDL said:


> According to the water softener people, the salt in the water softener is to remove the hard water deposits on the resin beads that the water runs through before it gets to your tap. It is only used when the machine is regenerating, usually at night when you are sleeping so there is no salt in the water you drink.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

sockyarn said:


> Soaking cotton its the get any residue off of it before adding the dye. If you do not you can get a very blotchy dye job.


Treat linen like you do with cotton? I know it is the devil to get to take dye because to thick cell walls but have seen some lovely results using natural indigo....

We will be having a day of experimenting and fun with an end to having samples of yarn dyed with different mordants and dyes to demonstrate to people what natural shades look like.


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

sockyarn said:


> Well if you are going to be true to the Medieval times then you need to use urine from a pregnant woman on your wool. The only place I get mordants from is Prochem thanks for the other name.


I've always read it was male urine. And mostly for indigo? When we do dying, we tell people about the Medieval use of urine in dying. But we do use powdered urea.


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

sockyarn said:


> Well if you are going to be true to the Medieval times then you need to use urine from a pregnant woman on your wool. The only place I get mordants from is Prochem thanks for the other name.


I've always read it was male urine. And mostly for indigo? When we do dying, we tell people about the Medieval use of urine in dying. But we do use powdered urea.


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## cashgora (Apr 16, 2011)

i use salt in the wash & vinegar in the rinse the first time i launder any yarn, not just cotton, with deep or strong color. this helps to keeps the color from running or fading.


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## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

DonnieK said:


> All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


Just an aside; I find that pegging dark clothing inside out on the washing line helps to really slow down fading. I have some things that are quite faded on the inside but not on the outside.


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## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

MaggiePringlemeir said:


> .... Oh, and my gran told me to put a child's water pistol filled with vinegar in a zippie bag in my handbag -- no match for an uzi, but it will stop a growling dog from attacking. Ha!!


Never thought of that, might have to try it. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Nifty Non (Jul 7, 2011)

DonnieK said:


> All I know is that this was what my granny always did to "set" the colors in dark clothing and my Mother did it, so I always thought "If if worked for them, it will work for me!" So I have always "set the colors" before I washed the clothing. It has always seemed to make my dark colors stay darker longer, especially noted with black and denim. I don't care for the "new faded tattered" look. So, my granny said do it, my mother said do it, so I do it.


I read of a funny thing the other day.

Daughter was cooking a big piece of beef and cut of an inch or so off each end. "Why" said new husband. "'Cos mum did" was the reply.

Next time she saw mum, daughter said "Why do you cut an inch or so off the meat before baking?" "Cos mum did" was the reply.

Visiting elderly mother a few days later the question was put "Why did you cut an inch or so off the beef before baking". "To make it fit in the dish" was the reply


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

Gerripho said:


> Somewhere, and I can't remember where, I thought I heard it was vinegar and Epsom salts. So, in a long stretch of making dishcloths I bought some. Haven't tried it yet as I'm out of a dishcloth mood. I sure hope someone who really knows will chime in here.


Yes, I've heard the same thing...vinegar & Epsom salts. I'm sure you can go to Wikipedia or Google it to find out if it really works and why.


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

Found a YouTube video that shows how to set the color in clothes. This is where I heard about using vinegar & Epsom salts.


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## ssk1953 (Jan 29, 2012)

DSouthard01 said:


> ssk1953 said:
> 
> 
> > For as long as I can remember, my mother always used salt to "set" the dye whenever she made us something that was likely to fade in the wash. So I have continued to follow her rule and it definitely works. We never used vinegar, only salt. I always soak anything I make with cotton yarn in salt water after I make them. They keep their color a lot longer that way. I only use tepid or lukewarm salt water bath because hot water can cause whatever you're soaking to shrink. Thirty minutes to an hour is as long as I ever soak something but I have let it go overnight and that was fine. This method has always worked for me as it did for my mom.[/quote
> ...


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## Peggy Beryl (Jun 4, 2012)

This video demonstrates the vinegar and Epsom salts treatment. I think it's better to soak for at least 20 minutes, though. It's the formula I have always used. I am over 80 years old, and this has worked for me for many years.






Do also read the comments following the video.


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## DSouthard01 (Sep 10, 2011)

ssk1953 said:


> 1/4 cup of salt to a gallon of water is what I use. I wouldn't soak different colors together either. I even do this whenever I buy clothing that is likely to fade in the wash. Soak it in salt water before the first wash.


Thanks!
Donna K


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

When I lived in West Africa, I bought a bunch of tie dyed fabrics dyed with natural indigo and koala nuts. The dyers told me to soak it in the ocean to keep the colors. I didn't know anything about this, but I figured the dyers know what they were talking about so off to the beach my friends and I went. The dresses I made faded a little over the years but don't know what they would have looked like if they hadn't been soaked in the ocean.


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## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

Nifty Non said:


> I read of a funny thing the other day.
> 
> Daughter was cooking a big piece of beef and cut of an inch or so off each end. "Why" said new husband. "'Cos mum did" was the reply.
> 
> ...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## coffeymug (Jul 14, 2013)

Love it!


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## rjhandmade (Feb 15, 2012)

Viwstitcher said:


> After reading about not using fabric softener on yarn, I tried just vinegar a few weeks ago and am a complete convert. I'm not sure what salt could add.


I only buy fabric softener for my son and 1 container can last a year in my house. I only use vinegar as my fabric softener, even on my most delicates. It leaves no build up like fabric softener either and better for the environment. I put in my dispenser, Love it. 
:?


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## albie (Jun 2, 2011)

i remember a loooong time ago ,60's, when we sewed with Madras material(do they even sell it any more?) we were told to soak it in salt to stop it from running. dark blues and reds were the worst. my husband had a pair of blue undershorts, when i washed his clothing i forget to take them out right away and the blue ran on his white t-shirts. (tie-dyed). needless to say i threw them out and will not buy any pkgs that have blue in them. even brand new jeans i soak them in vinegar first so i don't take the chance of running on my blouses. make my own dry laundry soap,use those round dryer balls(haven't bought softener in 20 yrs),and NO liquid bleach,only dry, hubby has a delicate BUM. nothing that smells(allergies). have only heard about vinegar and salt but together?? don't know. next time i use the Americana from P&C am going to give them a try (at the same time),they are only dishcloths,right?????well, it is 8:56 a.m. on 9/18/14 and time to do the bkft dishes. good luck on the salt and vinegar(I do not like it on my fries). ;-) ;-) ;-)


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## pzoe (Mar 17, 2011)

knitster475 said:


> In commercially dyed yarns, you don't have to set the dye. That should have been done in the dyeing process. Sometimes if the yarn is not rinsed well after dyeing, there will be excess unabsorbed dye which comes out in the wash.
> 
> Anything dyed will fade over time with washing, so best thing to do is use a gentle wash in tepid or cold water and use a soap or detergent for delicate garments. Harsh regular laundry detergents are the worst culprit in causing fading.


Well said.


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