# What do knitting judges look for?



## PaulaSussexUK (Jul 6, 2014)

Every year I enter a knitted item in two village shows. Invariably I put the same item in both shows where the competition is usually similar an get similar placings. But this year I got a 2nd in one show and a 4th in the second where I did not think the standard was nearly as high. A lady who has judged in the past at the first show tells me that she looked for neat tension, neat seams, ends woven well in and a choice of wool that enhanced the pattern chosen. Sounds OK to me. In the second village show I can truthfully say that some of the items that were awarded prizes were not made up well and one had used a yarn that obscured rather than enhanced the cabling. But one thing that the prize winners had in common was that they were all large items eg hip length cardis. etc. In the UK there are strict criteria for judging fruit and veg, but I am not aware that there is a similar rule book for knitting and crochet. Views, please


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## MJRITCHEY (Jan 22, 2011)

I have wondered that myself. I enjoy entering items in the County Fair, and sometimes I'll see a blue ribbon on something that doesn't seem to merit it. In fact, one year I entered a pair of felted socks, that to me should have won no more than 2nd place and they won Best of Class. I even asked why and was told that they look for interesting use of yarn even more than unusual stitches or yarn. I have also learned that lace and heavily cabled items win more than plainer stitches. I wonder how other members of KP do with their entries.


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## CaroleD53 (Aug 7, 2012)

The criteria given by the person from the first show sound fair enough. Do you know anyone you can ask about the second? It seems only fair that you know what they are looking for before you enter.


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## Frogger (Sep 6, 2012)

I too wonder -- I have seen the sashay ruffled scarfs win first ribbons and best of class !!


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## CaroleD53 (Aug 7, 2012)

Frogger said:


> I too wonder -- I have seen the sashay ruffled scarfs win first ribbons and best of class !!


Perhaps the judges aren't knitters and think they are complicated lol.


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## Marge St Pete (Jul 21, 2011)

Won second place last year in the Florida State fair in the aran sweater category. Mine was a cardigan and I'm in the over 60 category. The first place in that category was a pull over with more Intricate stitches. Hard to know exactly what the judges are looking for.


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

PaulaSussexUK said:


> Every year I enter a knitted item in two village shows. Invariably I put the same item in both shows where the competition is usually similar an get similar placings. But this year I got a 2nd in one show and a 4th in the second where I did not think the standard was nearly as high. A lady who has judged in the past at the first show tells me that she looked for neat tension, neat seams, ends woven well in and a choice of wool that enhanced the pattern chosen. Sounds OK to me. In the second village show I can truthfully say that some of the items that were awarded prizes were not made up well and one had used a yarn that obscured rather than enhanced the cabling. But one thing that the prize winners had in common was that they were all large items eg hip length cardis. etc. In the UK there are strict criteria for judging fruit and veg, but I am not aware that there is a similar rule book for knitting and crochet. Views, please


Sadly to say, sometimes the ones that are judging are not even knitters themselves. They are looking for pretty and catchy.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

Frogger said:


> I too wonder -- I have seen the sashay ruffled scarfs win first ribbons and best of class !!


Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal, imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting; a monkey could be taught to make the scarf!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

Guess it depends on the judges credentials, whether they are expert in what they are judging. Also depends on the fair. Years ago I entered at the Pomona County Fair (L.A. County) several times. Had a friend who was far more experienced at knitting and she entered every year. It was soon evident that a blue ribbon is hard to get at that fair. I think she got a 2nd place ribbon and the best I ever did was 3rd place & an honorable mention. Noticed that the judges look for the very intricate, labor intensive designs and the unusual one of a kind items. The judges seemed to be fair as the winners well deserved their blue ribbons.


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## Barn-dweller (Nov 12, 2013)

I have had similar problems with our village show and wonder if they just chose some prominent person to judge. Last year I entered a few cross-stitch items, I had mounted them but couldn't afford to have them framed as well. A comment from the judge on one of them said that if it had been framed it would have won a ticket. What was she judging, the cross-stitch or the frames?


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## hen (Jun 30, 2012)

I wonder if there is someone on KP who belongs to the WI (Women's Institute) in the UK who might be able to shed some light on how judging is done at country fayres. 

I saw some knitting entered last year at a local country fayre (didn't enter myself - too much of a wimp and never seemed to have a piece of knitting completed at the right time to enter) and the knitting entries varied enormously.

What I had thought was stellar knitting, beautiful and exquisite got a 3rd place and a chunky piece of colourful knitting in a fashion yarn won 1st place. Was really disappointed with how it was judged.
It didn't seem to be judged on either the difficulty of the piece of work or the skill involved.

I think the WI are often asked to judge baking and crafts, so hopefully someone can shed some light.

Good question to ask, Pamela. Glad you posted it.


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

While not from the UK, I am a judge in the States and hopefully can give some help. Can't speak for state fairs, I only do county fairs. Most agents have a hard time getting judges because so many types of needlework are entered, so many classes. Because I do most types of work, I've had fun summers doing this. Part of judging a product is the presentation-- that may be why the cross stitch w/o a frame didn't do well. How will you display the item if NOT in a frame? 

Product needs to be clean, etc. I don't mind the item being worn before judging if it is clean when I judge it.

Beyond that, as far as I know, there are no written standards for needlework, at least not in Kansas. Part of any judging, even with standards, comes down to the judge. Some don't do a good job keeping out personal prejudices. Hopefully those won't be asked to judge again. But it happens.


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## nuthouse (Oct 30, 2012)

My daughter says that C.W.A.(Australia's WI) judges are well-versed into what is to be judged with a strict criteria to be addressed; they are themselves judged on their knowledge in whatever category they choose to be judges. There will still be a 'little' subjectivity even in stringent rules. If you enter C.W.A. competitions, you need to ask in advance for the specifics for entry categories.


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I entered several things into our local show and I got 2nd place for my baby outfit. I was really thrilled. My bootees that I thought would get in with a prize missed out.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Why don't you ask for a list of the judging rules in writing to be given to contestants who are entering the competition .That's only fair then you know what the judges expect. I don't think I would enter anything if I was not first furnished with the rules I was supposed to follow( and therefore the rules the judges will be following)
Makes sense to me ....................


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## april1963 (May 29, 2013)

I have judged items for "open class" at county fairs. I look at even tension in the entire project, measure many times and refold items if they are not circular to check also. Then I take in the difficulty of stitches. Items that are felted can lose definition of stitches. Since I also o judge garment construction in sewing and have an understanding of boiled wool for making outer layers, felting is not a huge concept. The heat and water do alot of work to make dense material. I love socks but think they need a separate division plus judges do not know for sure if dpn or circular needles used which would be nice for level of difficulty. Then the color, which for knitter is usually personal favorite, I try to keep my favorite color out of decision and also the use of varigated colors loses pattern of stitches. I also look for where new yarn is joined, love not to be able to find it. It takes me 30 minutes to judge afghans if complex


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## morningstar (Mar 24, 2012)

"....the eye of the beholder." Judging is truly subjective. Same goes for art shows. One often walks away wondering at the works that got prizes and the ones that did not.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

What is boiled wool?



april1963 said:


> I have judged items for "open class" at county fairs. I look at even tension in the entire project, measure many times and refold items if they are not circular to check also. Then I take in the difficulty of stitches. Items that are felted can lose definition of stitches. Since I also o judge garment construction in sewing and have an understanding of boiled wool for making outer layers, felting is not a huge concept. The heat and water do alot of work to make dense material. I love socks but think they need a separate division plus judges do not know for sure if dpn or circular needles used which would be nice for level of difficulty. Then the color, which for knitter is usually personal favorite, I try to keep my favorite color out of decision and also the use of varigated colors loses pattern of stitches. I also look for where new yarn is joined, love not to be able to find it. It takes me 30 minutes to judge afghans if complex


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## april1963 (May 29, 2013)

Usually the only rules for a contest where I judge is the item must be made by the person whom entered it, meet size requirement (10" doily) and person must live in the area. We are nor given patterns and there is no interview process which would take longer but be more helpful. I judge crochet, tatting, knitting, cross stitch, plastic canvas and sewing (construction and fitting) and then the all other area which I hate to vague. I am a 4-H Certified Master Clothing Educator, which means I made a sample book of sewing items which took 6 months sewing. There is no requirements for judges at fairs as we work up to 5 hours and are lucky to be paid more than free entrance and a meal. I do it because love to be able to see how people did the project and help correct errors in making things. Hope this helps.


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## Toyknitter (Feb 5, 2011)

I think the quality of the knitting is generally a big factor, but also the uniqueness of the item. Because I knit mostly toys and very few people in this are do, I have been lucky enough to garner a few ribbons. I also received a ribbon this year for my Shamrock hat which is again in a category with few entries...this is a local county fair. I agree it can be difficult to know what criteria they are using sometimes. In my neck of the woods there are lots of crochet items, but not as many knit items. The toy was a reversible and I was confident with that entry, the hat was a major surprise and I think loaning a head form to display it was a big factor. To be honest, I never would have displayed it the way they did, but I'm not complaining since I took a first. Presentation can make a big difference.


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## april1963 (May 29, 2013)

Boiled wool is where you take yards of wool and actually boil the fabric and then make your garment. It is done for heavy, dense coats and jackets. Some of us make it by mistake after we made the garment. You also dry fabric in dryer so shrink it well but nice winter coats but costly for uses alot of wool and must by high in % pure wool fiber.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


 :thumbup:


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## heatherb (Apr 14, 2013)

I think it depends on the show you enter x I know the WI have specific criteria but our local village show depends on who they get to judge as the judge, last year the judge for the craft section was a seamstress and quilter but she judged
all classes in the craft x


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

But what criteria do you use to determine which work is worthy of an award and which is not? That is what entrants are interested to know.



april1963 said:


> Usually the only rules for a contest where I judge is the item must be made by the person whom entered it, meet size requirement (10" doily) and person must live in the area. We are nor given patterns and there is no interview process which would take longer but be more helpful. I judge crochet, tatting, knitting, cross stitch, plastic canvas and sewing (construction and fitting) and then the all other area which I hate to vague. I am a 4-H Certified Master Clothing Educator, which means I made a sample book of sewing items which took 6 months sewing. There is no requirements for judges at fairs as we work up to 5 hours and are lucky to be paid more than free entrance and a meal. I do it because love to be able to see how people did the project and help correct errors in making things. Hope this helps.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

So it is felted yarn that we are talking about?



april1963 said:


> Boiled wool is where you take yards of wool and actually boil the fabric and then make your garment. It is done for heavy, dense coats and jackets. Some of us make it by mistake after we made the garment. You also dry fabric in dryer so shrink it well but nice winter coats but costly for uses alot of wool and must by high in % pure wool fiber.


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## Sarah Chana (Apr 15, 2014)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


please, please, tell us what you REALLY think! ( I happen to agree with you).


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## Irene1 (Oct 23, 2013)

A knitting buddy entered an incredible lace shawl in a county fair. The shawl that won was a simple garter stitch shawl made with thick yarn on large needles, and was not well done....uneven stitches, etc. I think it might depend on who you are and if you are related to the judge!


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## 5Pat (Aug 29, 2011)

One of my friends was a judge. She also teach knitting and crocheting. 

In crocheting color changes should be neat and the ends weave in. Flowers should be standing up in afghan if that what the design call for.

In knitting how you finish and weave in your ends are important.

There was a beautiful cables sweater, that came in second because the seams were not well done.


Remember that on the outside most of the projects look wonderful, so you look at how was it finish.

Also the color choice is important.


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## Doriseve (Jul 7, 2014)

carrottop71 said:


> Sadly to say, sometimes the ones that are judging are not even knitters themselves. They are looking for pretty and catchy.


I agree. Also the latest fad. I have judged at Fall Fairs, so I know what skill is required, and neatness, and what is quality work, and degree of difficulty, etc, etc. Doris


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

Irene1 said:


> A knitting buddy entered an incredible lace shawl in a county fair. The shawl that won was a simple garter stitch shawl made with thick yarn on large needles, and was not well done....uneven stitches, etc. I think it might depend on who you are and if you are related to the judge!


Can't speak for all fairs (and I'm sure this happens) but where I judge, everyone makes a point to NOT let the judge know who did what.


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## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

Many years ago a local show I entered was won by an item that was clearly a machine knit. There weren't separate classes for machine and hand knits. I hope judging has improved since then.


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## itip2 (Dec 2, 2011)

I judge periodicallyincluding the WOW factor, first I look for clean and unworn- you'd be surprised how often makeup is on the neck of a sweater! I am assuming the show steward has insured the article is in the right class- a lot of moving sometimes takes place. then technical excellence, this includes suitability of materials to project- angora socks for instance, general appearance,including the WOW factor. Less emphasis on colour as tht is so much in the eye of the beholder. Comments never made by competent judges- I Don't like mauve, I don't like is personally judgmental and personal preferences should not have anything to do with it. The Cables ae distorted is fine, I don't like cables is not. Ear in mind that yu put the article out for judging, so yu 'takes what you gets'.


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## itip2 (Dec 2, 2011)

Sorry, hit the send button before editing.


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## silkandwool (Dec 5, 2011)

It sounds like the judges do not have strict guide lines on what to look for in judging an item. I don't know of any set rules for judging.
I think that if an item is to be judged it should be done by someone who knows a little about the craft they are judging.

The last time I entered something in the county fair I was very disappointed. I entered a cashmere scarf knit in the old shale pattern. The scarf that won first prize was a garter stitch done in Lion Brand Homespun.


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## past (Apr 3, 2011)

At my county fair in IL they have several requirements that are posted right in the fair book. It tells what the judges look at. My fair book is several years old because I've been traveling for 8 years and haven't entered anything in the fair, but this is what is tells me.
1) Choose which category your project fits. Later in the book under knit is a list of categories and under crochet is another list. For example you would choose Knit:Baby or Crochetoily
2) Item must have been made after the close of last years fair.
2) Judges are given specific criteria to look at when judging. (No explanation is given, but this has often made me think that they might not always have judges who are proficient at the item they are judging. 
At my county fair they list what was looked at for each area of judging. On the wall over the baked goods is a list, on the wall over sewing is another list, on the wall over knitting, etc,etc,etc


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## Cinny60 (Nov 16, 2012)

Im not sure what the Judges look for wither. They are all different. And I have to go along with the idea of how they are presented. 
Last year I enterd a POW Afghan I made at two fairs. One was a County one and I got First place. The second was a local town fair and I didnt get anything. Which was ok but I did find out later that they had the afghan just folded up to where you couldnt even tell what It was. It just looked like a black and white afghan with some sort of design on it. I didnt enter them to win anything Just to show our support of POWs being my husband is a Vet. So I think the presentaion might have a lot to do with it.


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## grammacat (Nov 30, 2011)

I am not sure what criteria they use to judge knit items but they seem to lack in the display of these items. At our county fair I have seen beautiful, intricate stitched afghans, baby blankets and sweaters folded up and stacked on top of one another for display. I questioned the ?judge or person in charge and she said they didn't have room to display them any other way. Shameful!!


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

I judge at the local county fair with similar criteria. Unfortunately the people receiving the entries do not turn anything away and each entry receives 2 free passes to the fair. Needless to say I end up trying to weed through a lot of junk; items stamped made in china, dated 1979 by the original artist, dirty items that were obviously made in the early 1940's and smelled of moth balls, item that have been re-entered every year for the past 10 years, manufactures tags still attached or the remnants of the tags in the seams. We are encouraged to give prizes in every category, which I feel really cheapens the value of the items really deserving of a prize. There are no judging guidelines (only guidelines for submission). I do try to put my personal aesthetic aside and base my decisions on the quality of the work and materials. I also factor in difficulty of the technique and creativity.



past said:


> At my county fair in IL they have several requirements that are posted right in the fair book. It tells what the judges look at. My fair book is several years old because I've been traveling for 8 years and haven't entered anything in the fair, but this is what is tells me.
> 1) Choose which category your project fits. Later in the book under knit is a list of categories and under crochet is another list. For example you would choose Knit:Baby or Crochetoily
> 2) Item must have been made after the close of last years fair.
> 2) Judges are given specific criteria to look at when judging. (No explanation is given, but this has often made me think that they might not always have judges who are proficient at the item they are judging.
> At my county fair they list what was looked at for each area of judging. On the wall over the baked goods is a list, on the wall over sewing is another list, on the wall over knitting, etc,etc,etc


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

At our fair, on judging day, the items are not on display they are piled on a table. We take all of the items unfold them lay them out and compare them. It is the fair committee members who later take the items and place them on display. So each item is viewed fairly and completely by the judges. The final presentation as seen by the fairgoers has no bearing on the judges decision.



Cinny60 said:


> Im not sure what the Judges look for wither. They are all different. And I have to go along with the idea of how they are presented.
> Last year I enterd a POW Afghan I made at two fairs. One was a County one and I got First place. The second was a local town fair and I didnt get anything. Which was ok but I did find out later that they had the afghan just folded up to where you couldnt even tell what It was. It just looked like a black and white afghan with some sort of design on it. I didnt enter them to win anything Just to show our support of POWs being my husband is a Vet. So I think the presentaion might have a lot to do with it.


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## Dcsmith77 (Apr 18, 2011)

I beg to differ. I have explained the technique to about four other knitters who wanted to make these scarfs and every one of them had problems actually doing the knitting. I admit that they are older residents of a retirement home, but they had to work very hard to make the scarfs in each case requested by grand children. We are all in the same group and there isn't much we won't try for our granchildren, but these are not easy for everyone. On the other hand, I do agree that they do not deserve any particular recognition when judged with traditional knitting, but they aren't quite as easy to make as you may think if you haven't made one. Part of the problem is that most of the instructions are poor.

Sorry, I quoted the wrong message; this is in reference to the insulting comments about the ruffle scarves.



grandmasheryl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## yarncrazy102 (Mar 16, 2013)

I use to judge at our county fair. It grew harder to judge each year. We were given so many blue, red, and white ribbons to distribute on submitted items. Some years, there were more items deserving blue ribbons and we had to make a choice of which item got which ribbon. It was hard. Other years, the workmanship was poor on many items and "honorable mention" or "judged" wasn't acceptable. Judging is very hard. I loved judging but I won't do it again. :-(


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Frogger said:


> I too wonder -- I have seen the sashay ruffled scarfs win first ribbons and best of class !!


Are you kidding? _Seriously_?


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## Grandma Jo (Feb 18, 2011)

I have been a Needlework judge. This is what I look for. The item must be clean or I won't judge it. In knitting and crochet it must have uniform stitching, no knots and the end of tails must be neatly woven in. With embroidery I look for much of the same. The back of the work should be almost as neat as the front.


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## ra1nb0z (Mar 5, 2011)

Some of the judges in our County Fair use the standard - If there is only one entry in a category, it cannot be given a blue ribbon. I disagree. If the quality of work deserves a blue ribbon, then the item should get a blue ribbon.

Also, I once entered an exquisite original Hardanger embroidered pillow in the only category available - "Embroidered Pillow - Any Stitch" I happened to be working near the judge as she rated the category. There were only 2 entries. Mine and a very nicely, neatly done cross-stitch floral pattern pillow. I looked at it closely after she gave it the blue ribbon (over my obviously more creative and difficult entry) and it was beautifully done and well worth recognition. I anonymously asked the judge why she gave it first place over the other one. She explained that while the Hardanger was beautiful and intricate, the one flaw she saw was the size of the picots throughout the work. They were not consistent. She explained that she had taught Hardanger embroidery for many years (so I definitely respected her opinion.) I thanked her, revealed my identity as the needleworker, had a great afternoon discussing techniques in Hardanger and went on to work on learning the proper way to create picots!


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## String Queen (Apr 9, 2012)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


Sashay scarves are very easy for me to knit but I have seen others struggle. I'm entering one in my fair only because I don't have anything else ready and it is a small fair. I'm quite ok with not einning on that item. My crocheted table runner is what I'm counting on to win big.

And yes, it would be great to know what the judges are looking for and that they are qualified. I'm sure that the bigger shows have more specialized judges. ie Quilt shows.

Robin


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

Dcsmith77 said:


> I beg to differ. I have explained the technique to about four other knitters who wanted to make these scarfs and every one of them had problems actually doing the knitting. I admit that they are older residents of a retirement home, but they had to work very hard to make the scarfs in each case requested by grand children. We are all in the same group and there isn't much we won't try for our granchildren, but these are not easy for everyone. On the other hand, I do agree that they do not deserve any particular recognition when judged with traditional knitting, but they aren't quite as easy to make as you may think if you haven't made one. Part of the problem is that most of the instructions are poor.
> 
> Sorry, I quoted the wrong message; this is in reference to the insulting comments about the ruffle scarves.


Thank you! I have made a few and I think you have to have nimble fingers to hold on to the stitches! I enjoy making the scarves- recently saw a post where a lady used one as a ruffle on a little girl's skirt - so cute!!!!


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## shadypineslady (Jan 28, 2014)

Judging anything is most likely "subjective," though presenters usually hope the judges will be "objective." The judges often have criteria by which to judge the submissions, but it's impossible to leave out personal biases when judging anything. At least, that's what I think, and I only base my opinion on fiction-writing competitions that I've entered in the past.


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## yona (Feb 7, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


Agree!


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## scrappyfox (Apr 10, 2013)

Theu wanted the finished product. Framing can enhance the art work


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## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

I get a little comment sheet with the judges scoring, and some remarked on the sheets. 
Each item has a pre determined score
Overall appearance (10)
Workmanship (15)
Finishing (10)
Difficulty (10)
Bonus for originality (5)

On this I got a score of 39 and got a blue ribbon. I guess it means that others did not score as high as mine, but that mine could have been done better, I had a loose end, my workmanship was 14, finishing 9, difficulty 6, and overall appearance 10. This was booties and they were actually a bit difficult, more so than the 6 that I got. But, still 'better' that what come next. I think there was another category or 2 added in later years, one being yarn suitable to pattern. In later years I learned to do better finsihings, and added some original designs, and I have won many best in category ribbons--the bit purple rosettes. I think they also liked PINK for the baby items.


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## Eileenanne (Jan 1, 2013)

> I have also learned that lace and heavily cabled items win more than plainer stitches.


That doesn't seem quite fair. I think it is MUCH more difficult to produce smooth, even stocking stitch than cabled or fancy patterns which can often hide minor imperfections.

Eileenanne


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## Cinny60 (Nov 16, 2012)

I use to help my Mom enter things in our town fair. and it was my job to display them as well as I could. Yes sometimes you would run out of room but for the most part things were put on display as well as they could be to at least show part of the workmanship or ydesign of the article. I loved doing it cause I got to see everything that came in. I sure miss that


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## joelbears (Mar 4, 2011)

At our state fair, my friend and I used to enter every year. One year I decided to enter a hank of yarn earmarked for a pair of hunting mittens. On the entry blank was a space to add what the yarn was to be used for. I left a bit of lanolin in the wool, and made a 3 ply that was no thicker than a store bought "Red Heart" acrylic yarn. It was the one and only time I went to the judging which is done in public. The judge picked it up, feeling the little bit of lanolin and tossed it aside. After judging all the rest, she looked at mine again and saw it was 3 ply and very even, it looked as though she would have liked to reconsider but couldn't. I took another hank of the same wool I had on hand and put it in my local county fair and got a best of show. Different judges, different taste.


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## Barn-dweller (Nov 12, 2013)

Barbara Van Wagnen said:


> Theu wanted the finished product. Framing can enhance the art work


If you can afford it.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Cathy, this is probably the worst example of amateurish running of a fair imaginable. Have you thought about getting involved in the craft section...or at least knitting and crochet divisions...for a while? It would seem that the organisers have absolutely no idea and may even appreciate help in giving a more professional touch to the craft section. It would encourage a much higher level of entries and even attract people who have thus far refused to put anything in.



Cathy B said:


> I judge at the local county fair with similar criteria. Unfortunately the people receiving the entries do not turn anything away and each entry receives 2 free passes to the fair. Needless to say I end up trying to weed through a lot of junk; items stamped made in china, dated 1979 by the original artist, dirty items that were obviously made in the early 1940's and smelled of moth balls, item that have been re-entered every year for the past 10 years, manufactures tags still attached or the remnants of the tags in the seams. We are encouraged to give prizes in every category, which I feel really cheapens the value of the items really deserving of a prize. There are no judging guidelines (only guidelines for submission). I do try to put my personal aesthetic aside and base my decisions on the quality of the work and materials. I also factor in difficulty of the technique and creativity.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Now that is what these shows and fairs should be about. Feedback is the way we all improve our craft, so if there was a way to get feedback from the judges everyone will be a winner, so to speak. I like the approach talked about by another poster where each item had a tag attached showing the marks given by judges for different criteria (design, workmanship, degree of difficulty, originality, etc). It allows crafters to critically review their work and know what they need to focus on to produce that next beautiful work.



ra1nb0z said:


> Some of the judges in our County Fair use the standard - If there is only one entry in a category, it cannot be given a blue ribbon. I disagree. If the quality of work deserves a blue ribbon, then the item should get a blue ribbon.
> 
> Also, I once entered an exquisite original Hardanger embroidered pillow in the only category available - "Embroidered Pillow - Any Stitch" I happened to be working near the judge as she rated the category. There were only 2 entries. Mine and a very nicely, neatly done cross-stitch floral pattern pillow. I looked at it closely after she gave it the blue ribbon (over my obviously more creative and difficult entry) and it was beautifully done and well worth recognition. I anonymously asked the judge why she gave it first place over the other one. She explained that while the Hardanger was beautiful and intricate, the one flaw she saw was the size of the picots throughout the work. They were not consistent. She explained that she had taught Hardanger embroidery for many years (so I definitely respected her opinion.) I thanked her, revealed my identity as the needleworker, had a great afternoon discussing techniques in Hardanger and went on to work on learning the proper way to create picots!


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

What is coming out loud and clear is that in many instances there is no set criteria to which judges work. There are usually rules for contestants (eg of some are: unworn or unused items, items no older than 3 years, items made by the entrant, parameters for different categories). As far as the work is concerned it is a given that an entrant would expect judges to take account of craftsmanship generally which may encompass such things as degree of difficulty, originality, evenness of stitches, all over appearance, finishing. See deshka's post on this. It is very disappointing to learn that is the case only sometimes. As for categories being judged by people who do not know the craft, I shudder and certainly would not enter anything at all if I knew.



scottishlass said:


> Why don't you ask for a list of the judging rules in writing to be given to contestants who are entering the competition .That's only fair then you know what the judges expect. I don't think I would enter anything if I was not first furnished with the rules I was supposed to follow( and therefore the rules the judges will be following)
> Makes sense to me ....................


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## j-krau1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Dcsmith77 said:


> I beg to differ. I have explained the technique to about four other knitters who wanted to make these scarfs and every one of them had problems actually doing the knitting. I admit that they are older residents of a retirement home, but they had to work very hard to make the scarfs in each case requested by grand children. We are all in the same group and there isn't much we won't try for our granchildren, but these are not easy for everyone. On the other hand, I do agree that they do not deserve any particular recognition when judged with traditional knitting, but they aren't quite as easy to make as you may think if you haven't made one. Part of the problem is that most of the instructions are poor.
> 
> Sorry, I quoted the wrong message; this is in reference to the insulting comments about the ruffle scarves.


Needle with hook on the end, such as crochet or short afghan hook, works much better in preventing the stitches slipping off. There is a wide array of instructions on You Tube for crocheting ruffle scarves.

Janet, Mpls which is NOT home to the Great Minnesota Get Together. I can't even say it's "across the river", which is both west and south of me.

String Queen, please indicate if entering GA or MN State Fair so I can look for your items if MN.


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## belinda (Mar 30, 2011)

Notations on exhibits that have won blue ribbons for me have mentioned unusual design, intricate patterns, beading, and presentation (hanging a shawl on a padded hanger, for instance, instead of just folded).


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Our county fair uses the Dannish scoring method in which participants are scored against set standards so participants are competing against set standards rather than against each other. It allows participants of varied skill levels to compete. Last year I assisted in the knitting department and the judge was very generous in sharing why she rated each item as she did. There was a sashay ruffled scarf that won a blue ribbon, she commented that she almost hated to give that type scarf a blue ribbon, but it was made without errors and so deserved the blue ribbon. Hope this gives some insight. FYI, when it came down to deciding best in show it came down to one twisted stitch and the more complicated ( and I thought more attractive sweater) lost because of that.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

This sounds really good. Are you able to share those set standards with us - or point to a place where we can look them up ourselves? I am sure it would be very helpful, even educational, for both participants and for judges especially where no criteria has been set.



KateLyn11 said:


> Our county fair uses the Dannish scoring method in which participants are scored against set standards so participants are competing against set standards rather than against each other. It allows participants of varied skill levels to compete. Last year I assisted in the knitting department and the judge was very generous in sharing why she rated each item as she did. There was a sashay ruffled scarf that won a blue ribbon, she commented that she almost hated to give that type scarf a blue ribbon, but it was made without errors and so deserved the blue ribbon. Hope this gives some insight. FYI, when it came down to deciding best in show it came down to one twisted stitch and the more complicated ( and I thought more attractive sweater) lost because of that.


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## Jules934 (May 7, 2013)

In Northern Illinois the judges are usually Home Economics Majors and are active in 4H and teaching Home Ec. 

There are good ones and bad ones, but the folks handling the competition know there stuff, and bad ones don't get invited back.

One thing I know they look for is that the knitted or crocheted item has been well finished, and that includes blocking or steaming the piece. It definitely makes a difference, and I've seen beautiful things set aside because it wasn't done.


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## Ozebeaver (Dec 9, 2012)

LAURA C said:


> Sorry, but that is criminal,imho. I do not consider Sashay knitting, a monkey could be thaught to make the scarf!


Totally agree but I am one monkey who has not been able to work out successfully how to use sashay yarn


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

At our county fair, criteria for judging are posted in the exhibit area and for some departments are printed in the fair book. The knitting department has more entries than can be artfully displayed but the judge takes each item out, unfolds it, or removes it from the hanger and looks at it closely, then assistants hold it up so she can she can see it from a distance. One assistant records what ribbon ( if any) is awarded, another jots down the judge's comments so the participant can learn why he/she lost points (twisted or dropped stitches, uneven tension, etc.). It is the superintendent of the department who selects and obtains the judge. In knitting, the judge is a well respected knitting instructor from half a state away. In the floral department were I also assist, the judge is a master gardener. This is the only geographic area in which I've participated in the fair, but our fair premium book, which comes out about a month before the fair lists contact information for the superintendent so participants can find out who is judging and their qualifications.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't have those written criteria at this time. Our fair will be held in two weeks If I am not able to get them before then, I'll get a copy then and post it.


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

The funny thing is, our fair is the longest continuously run fair in the United States (249 years). I think the rules for submission are still the same as they were in 1765.:lol:
I believe that if they were to discontinue giving free admission to entrants (there are several sponsored days when all admission is free) and increase the prize money (first prize is a laughable $5.00, that's not a typo), we would get better quality items. By the way I am judging the craft section and knitting/crochet sections. My friend and I are paired as judges and we have a great time together. If it were not for her I wouldn't continue to judge.



Lillyhooch said:


> Cathy, this is probably the worst example of amateurish running of a fair imaginable. Have you thought about getting involved in the craft section...or at least knitting and crochet divisions...for a while? It would seem that the organisers have absolutely no idea and may even appreciate help in giving a more professional touch to the craft section. It would encourage a much higher level of entries and even attract people who have thus far refused to put anything in.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Congratulations on being the judges. I am sure that you have found the discussions here of great interest, particularly on the issue of criteria used for judging used elsewhere. Your position as a judge could give you a leg in to improve the quality of entries. From my, admittedly limited, experience the prize money is not so important. It is the kudos rather than the money that counts. I won a first with an original design shadow knitted top, but I have no idea of the criteria used. The prize money was $7. Very happy to get a first of course but would truly love to know if the judges even knew what shadow knitting was. But then again, if it was judged on quality of knitting, finishing and design I am very happy.



Cathy B said:


> The funny thing is, our fair is the longest continuously run fair in the United States (249 years). I think the rules for submission are still the same as they were in 1765.:lol:
> I believe that if they were to discontinue giving free admission to entrants (there are several sponsored days when all admission is free) and increase the prize money (first prize is a laughable $5.00, that's not a typo), we would get better quality items. By the way I am judging the craft section and knitting/crochet sections. My friend and I are paired as judges and we have a great time together. If it were not for her I wouldn't continue to judge.


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## Oldesttm (Jul 4, 2012)

I encourage people to enter competitions that I am involved in but always tell them....do it for fun because the judges can do all sorts of crazy things. Don't take it personally. We use experienced knitters to judge knitting, weavers to judge weaving, felters to judge felting, etc. These are talented people who know their craft but sometimes I cannot believe the results....maybe they got out of the wrong side of the bed and don't like green that day.


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## Dcsmith77 (Apr 18, 2011)

I think you are absolutely right. Fancy stitches hide mistakes. It's much easier to fudge an error in complicated lace than on a plain stockinette stitch cardigan where the slightest split yarn or random loose stitch stands out like a sore thumb. Unfortunately, unless you are a pretty experienced knitter, you don't know that.

I do believe that all items should be judged against themselves, not in competition with any other entry. It is not a contest between entries, but a judgment of whether you did the best work that could be done on that item. In order to do this, however, you have to sometimes give more than one gold, silver, or other award. That is not often a prerogative of the judges.



Eileenanne said:


> That doesn't seem quite fair. I think it is MUCH more difficult to produce smooth, even stocking stitch than cabled or fancy patterns which can often hide minor imperfections.
> 
> Eileenanne


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## Dcsmith77 (Apr 18, 2011)

I can vouch for the fact that you are not along. It really is not an art, but there are a lot of people who simply cannot do it because they do not have the dexterity to do it. I think it is uncalled for to minimize any work that another person does. Perhaps it is just the best that they can do and if so, then they should be congratulated for the effort. We have people with arthritic hands who have really struggled to use this yarn and succeeded. One woman took about six months to make one of these scarves for her grand daughter. It was lovely and her gd loved it and we all struggled along with her encouraging her until she did it!



Ozebeaver said:


> Totally agree but I am one monkey who has not been able to work out successfully how to use sashay yarn


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

Yes, I have found these discussions inspiring. It's a little late for this years fair, but I am going to submit a letter to the committee asking for some changes or at least that the current guidelines for submission be enforced. I will include photos of obvious items that should have been rejected as not being handmade (containing made in china stamps, manufactures tags or remnants thereof) or not produced within the last year(if the item is signed and dated, has been submitted in a prior year, or shows obvious signs of years of use). Since the fair does not provide a guideline, I will talk to my friend about adopting one of the guidelines listed in the discussion to help keep us on track and to keep our personal likes and dislikes from sneaking in to the decision making. We do get bogged down when none of the items submitted in a category meet a certain taste level. If the scarf category has 10 sashay scarves (not to put down sashay scarves, I'm just repeated the example of others) submitted and you pick the best to win the ribbon, doesn't that decrease the value of the 1st place for the museum quality cobweb lace shawl from another category? I know the fair committee needs to accept the good, the bad and the ugly with no judgement calls. As a judge, it gets frustrating when you try to find a winner when all you have to choose from is the ugly. As a judging pair we frequently find ourselves having to bring each other back to the task of focusing on the craftsmanship.



Lillyhooch said:


> Congratulations on being the judges. I am sure that you have found the discussions here of great interest, particularly on the issue of criteria used for judging used elsewhere. Your position as a judge could give you a leg in to improve the quality of entries. From my, admittedly limited, experience the prize money is not so important. It is the kudos rather than the money that counts. I won a first with an original design shadow knitted top, but I have no idea of the criteria used. The prize money was $7. Very happy to get a first of course but would truly love to know if the judges even knew what shadow knitting was. But then again, if it was judged on quality of knitting, finishing and design I am very happy.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

An idea is to have a 'best of show' award given at the judges discretion. This allows that superb cobweb shawl to find its rightful place outside its particular category. Another thing that seems to be common here in Australia is for a length of the yarn, preferably with its label, to be attached to the entry. If no label, a full description must be provided with the yarn sample. For handspun, again a length of that yarn and details of what it was spun from (merino, silk, etc) and whether from fleece or sliver etc. I think 2 or 3 years is okay for a time line so long as the item has not been used. One year may be too short as it could be that the item was completed at about the time of the last show, but not in time to submit it into that last show.

Good luck with your submission to have entry rules changed. And I applaud the initiative to put together your own judging guidelines.



Cathy B said:


> Yes, I have found these discussions inspiring. It's a little late for this years fair, but I am going to submit a letter to the committee asking for some changes or at least that the current guidelines for submission be enforced. I will include photos of obvious items that should have been rejected as not being handmade (containing made in china stamps, manufactures tags or remnants thereof) or not produced within the last year(if the item is signed and dated, has been submitted in a prior year, or shows obvious signs of years of use). Since the fair does not provide a guideline, I will talk to my friend about adopting one of the guidelines listed in the discussion to help keep us on track and to keep our personal likes and dislikes from sneaking in to the decision making. We do get bogged down when none of the items submitted in a category meet a certain taste level. If the scarf category has 10 sashay scarves (not to put down sashay scarves, I'm just repeated the example of others) submitted and you pick the best to win the ribbon, doesn't that decrease the value of the 1st place for the museum quality cobweb lace shawl from another category? I know the fair committee needs to accept the good, the bad and the ugly with no judgement calls. As a judge, it gets frustrating when you try to find a winner when all you have to choose from is the ugly. As a judging pair we frequently find ourselves having to bring each other back to the task of focusing on the craftsmanship.


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## j-krau1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> An idea is to have a 'best of show' award given at the judges discretion. This allows that superb cobweb shawl to find its rightful place outside its particular category. Another thing that seems to be common here in Australia is for a length of the yarn, preferably with its label, to be attached to the entry. If no label, a full description must be provided with the yarn sample. For handspun, again a length of that yarn and details of what it was spun from (merino, silk, etc) and whether from fleece or sliver etc. I think 2 or 3 years is okay for a time line so long as the item has not been used. One year may be too short as it could be that the item was completed at about the time of the last show, but not in time to submit it into that last show.
> 
> Good luck with your submission to have entry rules changed. And I applaud the initiative to put together your own judging guidelines.


Have the "Best of Show" item/monetary prize sponsored by a prominent LYS (must be a fiber product from their shop), yarn spinner, crafters guild, etc. And how about a "Vintage" category so that you can show off a beautiful item from yesteryear that your elderly family member or friend made?

Maybe even have entrants sign a "certificate of authenticity" with their submission. Whatever you can do to cut down on fraudulent submissions. And no more free fair admission tickets for each entrant "because we need the money to apply toward the prizes won".

Janet, Mpls


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

I like all your suggestions. I had forgotten about the free entry tickets - as the current rules date way back in history (I think to the late 1700s?) they were for a totally different society than today. No commercially knit articles then, and a much smaller number of people, so it was likely they would all have known each other and each other's work.

I wonder if the issue is that the organizers are concerned that updating the rules would break the continuity of the fair in peoples minds. Perhaps it is this which needs to be refuted so that they are receptive to changing rules to make the whole affair relevant to the current society.



j-krau1 said:


> Have the "Best of Show" item/monetary prize sponsored by a prominent LYS (must be a fiber product from their shop), yarn spinner, crafters guild, etc. And how about a "Vintage" category so that you can show off a beautiful item from yesteryear that your elderly family member or friend made?
> 
> Maybe even have entrants sign a "certificate of authenticity" with their submission. Whatever you can do to cut down on fraudulent submissions. And no more free fair admission tickets for each entrant "because we need the money to apply toward the prizes won".
> 
> Janet, Mpls


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## j-krau1 (Apr 7, 2011)

Lillyhooch said:


> I like all your suggestions. I had forgotten about the free entry tickets - as the current rules date way back in history (I think to the late 1700s?) they were for a totally different society than today. No commercially knit articles then, and a much smaller number of people, so it was likely they would all have known each other and each other's work.
> 
> I wonder if the issue is that the organizers are concerned that updating the rules would break the continuity of the fair in peoples minds. Perhaps it is this which needs to be refuted so that they are receptive to changing rules to make the whole affair relevant to the current society.


Hehe, makes you wonder if people are bringing in their 18th century treasures to exhibit!


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## Cathy B (May 15, 2014)

j-krau1 said:


> Hehe, makes you wonder if people are bringing in their 18th century treasures to exhibit!


They do have a category for antiques, but not antique needlework.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

I judge knitting and other needlework at several of our County Fairs. Your first judge has it spot on for criteria. The tie breakers and best of show are based on degree of difficulty. At our County Fair (for which I am not allowed to judge) we have had really horrible judges who have based their selections on personal preference and/or who do not knit so don't have a clue. We have also had some who are excellent.

Take it all with a grain of salt and keep on entering!


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## gin-red (Sep 17, 2011)

morningstar said:


> "....the eye of the beholder." Judging is truly subjective. Same goes for art shows. One often walks away wondering at the works that got prizes and the ones that did not.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: You are correct!!!
I have entered County Fairs many times. both art and knitting. Our local fair hires 4-h certified judges with very little art back ground. That makes for very interesting judging to say the least.


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## gin-red (Sep 17, 2011)

deshka said:


> I get a little comment sheet with the judges scoring, and some remarked on the sheets.
> Each item has a pre determined score
> Overall appearance (10)
> Workmanship (15)
> ...


Boy you faired well on the blue. At one of the fairs I enter,
a loose end takes you out of the competition immediately! pop.


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## PaulaSussexUK (Jul 6, 2014)

As the one who started this topic, I'd like to thank everyone for all the many interesting and constructive comments that have been posted. Folks have been very good in keeping to the point and not going off at angles, so the thread has been kept alive. As far as the UK is concerned, it is a pity that we don't seem to have had a comment from anyone directly involved with the WI. Maybe I ought to contact them direct, referring them to this on-line discussion? If there are recognised criteria for judging knitting (and crochet) we could then draw these to the attention of the show organisers so that we know what to expect rather than the haphazard system that seems to operate here, and afar. Thanks again KP'ers.


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## Sperson (Jul 28, 2011)

My "Ojo de Dios" shawl just won the top prize at our county fair and will go to the state fair. I think the judges look for unique items. I agree with many of the other statements about quality of the work and the knitting knowledge of the judges. Remember that the judging is very subjective as it is with any art form.


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## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

spins2knit said:


> .........Take it all with a grain of salt and keep on entering!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Good advice! In Indiana this year the winners all seemed to be dark hues and anything/everything cable. Judges definitely appeared to have a preference. Entering is a fun challenge regardless.


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## Lillyhooch (Sep 27, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan.



PaulaSussexUK said:


> As the one who started this topic, I'd like to thank everyone for all the many interesting and constructive comments that have been posted. Folks have been very good in keeping to the point and not going off at angles, so the thread has been kept alive. As far as the UK is concerned, it is a pity that we don't seem to have had a comment from anyone directly involved with the WI. Maybe I ought to contact them direct, referring them to this on-line discussion? If there are recognised criteria for judging knitting (and crochet) we could then draw these to the attention of the show organisers so that we know what to expect rather than the haphazard system that seems to operate here, and afar. Thanks again KP'ers.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

I was asked earlier to post the criteria used for judging knitting at our county fair. Here is the content from the worksheet our superintendent uses.

Appearance-visual impact, suggests pliability, elasticity, openness characteristic of process. 10 pts. Presentation-clean neat and well blocked 5 pts

Design-organization of elements of design 15 pts. Creativity 10 pts. Originality 5 pts. Suitability of materials, needle or hook size, design elements in relation to each other and to end use of object. (Not sure ?10 pts)

Craftsmanship- stitches well executed 8pts. Gauge correct 8pts. Tension uniform 8pts. Yarn ends joined and woven in inconspicuously 8pts. Carried yarns, if used for adding colors, even and not woven too tight. Construction details I.e. Seams, button holes etc. well excecuted. 8 pts.

Final judged categories are; excellent, good, fair and no placing.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

If you are serious about competing, I would seek out the criteria for your local fair. As I said earlier our fair uses the Danish system for judging so you are competing against set criteria. There are no limits to number of ribbons that can be awarded. If the items meets the criteria it gets a ribbon. Our knitting department superintendent was telling me she helped judge a nearby fair, recently, that uses the American system so you are competing against other knitters, and no matter how many entries you have, or their quality, there is one winner. I listened to her speaking to another exhibitor and she was explaining the philosophy she and her judge have, that the purpose of the fair was to encourage people to participate and to help them to improve in their craft. Hope the above criteria helps.


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## Lorikeet (Jan 15, 2016)

I have not been to the RNA show in Brisbane for a few years. Before that I noticed that far fewer knitted items were on display and there was a greater array of alternative interesting crafts including woodwork, metalwork etc.

In the past, an older woman often won the First Prize in her section. I think the main reason was that she could work with the finest yarn and the smallest needles and turn out an item which looked as if it had been machine knitted. It would also have to have been very nicely stitched together with ends neatly finished.

I think judges are looking for something that stands out from the crowd in terms of being innovative across knitting, sewing, crochet etc. They also take into account complexity and difficulty of completion, and probably colour.

My sister entered a hand knitted item in the Perth Show and got a commended certificate. She was given some ideas to improve her work, which she said included finishing techniques.


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## Lorikeet (Jan 15, 2016)

Frogger said:


> I too wonder -- I have seen the sashay ruffled scarfs win first ribbons and best of class !!


I had to google to find out what a Sashay Scarf was. There is absolutely no skill in making one of these.


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## Carole Jeanne (Nov 18, 2011)

ra1nb0z said:


> Some of the judges in our County Fair use the standard - If there is only one entry in a category, it cannot be given a blue ribbon. I disagree. If the quality of work deserves a blue ribbon, then the item should get a blue ribbon.
> 
> Also, I once entered an exquisite original Hardanger embroidered pillow in the only category available - "Embroidered Pillow - Any Stitch" I happened to be working near the judge as she rated the category. There were only 2 entries. Mine and a very nicely, neatly done cross-stitch floral pattern pillow. I looked at it closely after she gave it the blue ribbon (over my obviously more creative and difficult entry) and it was beautifully done and well worth recognition. I anonymously asked the judge why she gave it first place over the other one. She explained that while the Hardanger was beautiful and intricate, the one flaw she saw was the size of the picots throughout the work. They were not consistent. She explained that she had taught Hardanger embroidery for many years (so I definitely respected her opinion.) I thanked her, revealed my identity as the needleworker, had a great afternoon discussing techniques in Hardanger and went on to work on learning the proper way to create picots!


Good for you!! So much to learn always


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