# Does anyone else feel absolutely stupid trying to understand patterns?



## joan4115 (Feb 1, 2013)

I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!! 

Hugs, Joanie


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

As much as we would like to believe that there is a standard method for writing patterns, most designers have their own way of writing. There are so many free patterns available and most untested so it does lead to confusion.

If you will identify the pattern, someone here can help you. There are both crocheters and knitters that are very good with both new and old patterns. Don't give up!


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## Waif (Jan 2, 2013)

I SO understand! Sometimes I feel like a complete numpty trying to follow instructions!


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## In Memory of Scottybear (Sep 20, 2011)

Thats one of the reasons I have dug out all my old patterns and have started making things from them. The instructions are clear. When you come to the decreasing each row is writte out instead of saying 'k2together, work in pattern to last 2 stitches, k2together'.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

yes done tha felt like a pea rolling down hill. Some patterns are written wrong too. You might want to check that too.


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

After knitting for about 80 years I get the screaming mimmies when I see a chart. I don't like them and don't want to learn them. I feel cheated when I buy a knitting book or magazine and the patterns use charts. I have complained and told them that and the reply I get is that charts save space. I wonder. To me it smacks of laziness. Why couldn't they just omit a pattern or two and make more space?
I got a knitting book in the mail today that I had been waiting for with great anticipation. Imagine my chagrin when I opened it and it appears all the patterns with lace on them are just charted


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> After knitting for about 80 years I get the screaming mimmies when I see a chart. I don't like them and don't want to learn them. I feel cheated when I buy a knitting book or magazine and the patterns use charts. I have complained and told them that and the reply I get is that charts save space. I wonder. To me it smacks of laziness. Why couldn't they just omit a pattern or two and make more space?
> I got a knitting book in the mail today that I had been waiting for with great anticipation. Imagine my chagrin when I opened it and it appears all the patterns with lace on them are just charted


One of the reasons I don't buy books on-line without having seen it in person first.
If they (the seller) would make a note to the fact that a certain amount of patterns are charted only, may change my mind. 
Especially when a few of those books that I did get on-line, were to be gifts and the intended does not do charts.


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## Jenval (Sep 18, 2012)

I also have been using old vintage patterns so much easy to understand, I have brought patterns from other designers some I am not happy with but you don't know untill you buy the pattern some I have brought will probably never get used for that reason.


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## LadyBecket (Jun 26, 2012)

AMEN!!! I have the worst time when they don't use some kind of standard for patterns, even internationally. I love patterns from the UK, they are so beautiful but I do have to refer back to a list that compares our abbr. I don't mean to be picky, I love their patterns no matter what!!


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## joan4115 (Feb 1, 2013)

Oh gosh, I feel so much better to find out others have the same frustration. Why not break the stitches in the pattern down so that the instructions flow more easily. I don't think it would require that much extra space, but if it does.... BIG DEAL! Show the patterns in a step by step progression. I have a friend who has crocheted and knitted for years. I asked for some help from her recently and she said that she needed to work the pattern herself so she would know what it said. SAD!! 

Hugs, Joanie


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

I think some patterns are written in Greek. I have sat in front of a pattern frustrated because it made no sense to me. You finally figure out what it was trying to say and want to scream again. If they had written that in English, I could have figured that out. Other than that, no problem.


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## shel01 (Feb 23, 2013)

I've recently posted 'increase advice' and I'm very greatful to the responses I've recieved, but the thought of having to try it again for the umpteenth time has fried my brain. The back of the tunic i was knitting is now in the frog pond and hopefully will have enough yarn left to knit another top. But i totally understand what you are saying joanie


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> I think some patterns are written in Greek. I have sat in front of a pattern frustrated because it made no sense to me. You finally figure out what it was trying to say and want to scream again. If they had written that in English, I could have figured that out. Other than that, no problem.


This could very well be part of the problem.
There are alot of translated patterns out there, for which they were poorly translated. :evil: 
To the translator (wannabes) out there:
Putting something into Google translator does not cut it. :thumbdown: 
There are at least 3 different versions of French, which one does Google use?
No offense to the true multilingual folks out there. :wink:


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## Lolly12 (Oct 10, 2012)

Waif said:


> I SO understand! Sometimes I feel like a complete numpty trying to follow instructions!


I love that word numpty,makes me giggle

:-D


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I have a friend who has crocheted and knitted for years. I asked for some help from her recently and she said that she needed to work the pattern herself so she would know what it said. SAD!!


Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?

There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.

Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


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## bobctwn65 (Jul 27, 2012)

you are not alone I just cant seem to understand patterns at all...very frustrated


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## joan4115 (Feb 1, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?
> 
> There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.
> 
> Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


*I think it is wonderful that you know enough about knitting and crocheting to write patterns. You are right, there are no schools to teach writing patterns, on the other hand there are no schools that teach knitting or crochet pattern interpretation unless it is through the occasional craft course. That is why I am so grateful to have friends on a forum like this one. What I was saying about "sad" was that my friend who has crocheted for years could not tell me the meaning of the pattern until she could figure it out. To use my previous comparison about being nursing instructor.... how would it be if a nursing student asked me how to start an intravenous injection (IV) and I had to tell the student to hold on, that I had to go and read and practice how to do it first. That would be ridiculous.

When one writes on forums, etc. it is sometimes hard to make clear what one means. I did not intend to insult you in any way. As said previously, I was just ventilating.

Hugs, Joanie*


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## no1girl (Sep 4, 2012)

when I started to teach Ballroom dancing at a large studio, the owner told all the teachers "You must presume that the student knows nothing about dance. The ones who arrive and say they can already dance aee usually the worst and clumsiest you will ever see.Most do not know the right foot from the left"

he was spot on!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I think it is wonderful that you know enough about knitting and crocheting to write patterns. You are right, there are no schools to teach writing patterns, on the other hand there are no schools that teach knitting or crochet pattern interpretation unless it is through the occasional craft course. That is why I am so grateful to have friends on a forum like this one. What I was saying about "sad" was that my friend who has crocheted for years could not tell me the meaning of the pattern until she could figure it out. To use my previous comparison about being nursing instructor.... how would it be if a nursing student asked me how to start an intravenous injection (IV) and I had to tell the student to hold on, that I had to go and read and practice how to do it first. That would be ridiculous.
> 
> When one writes on forums, etc. it is sometimes hard to make clear what one means. I did not intend to insult you in any way. As said previously, I was just ventilating.
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


Sorry, Joanie.
I hadn't meant to upset you.

It's just that I, like your friend, very often need to set hands in motion with yarn and tool in order to 'see' just what a pattern is trying to tell me to do. I have _always_ tried to do what the books say and read all the way through a pattern before beginning. However, sometimes no number of read-throughs does the job. Some patterns are just better written than others.

Then there are the patterns that just plain have errors/typos/missing bits. Nothing to do but blunder along until/if possible you figure out just what's wrong - to trash it and try another pattern.

As for writing patterns myself ... I've written one, but never tried to get anyone else work it up. It was a major headache! More power to those who design and write pattenrs!


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## beaz (Mar 16, 2013)

I think we all feel the same about charts. I downloaded a pattern and the 2 charts were so small there was no way I would be able to read it, let alone remember what all those symbols and shaded areas meant. I created a larger chart using Excel and used "K" for knit and "Purl", etc. It fit perfectly on my magnetic pattern holder and I was able to go line by line....just a thought to pass along


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## joan4115 (Feb 1, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Sorry, Joanie.
> I hadn't meant to upset you.
> 
> It's just that I, like your friend, very often need to set hands in motion with yarn and tool in order to 'see' just what a pattern is trying to tell me to do. I have _always_ tried to do what the books say and read all the way through a pattern before beginning. However, sometimes no number of read-throughs does the job. Some patterns are just better written than others.
> ...


Thanks for your comments. I am not upset. I was afraid I had upset you and wanted to clarify what I had said. The people on here have all been wonderful to me. Again thanks for the clarification.

Hugs, Joanie


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

I prefer the UK-like WRITTEN patterns...but with dyslexia...the chart is easier for all other types.

I can translate/write from one to the other...thanks to the symbol file(s) I've researched.


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

Computer difficulty...YES, even ME!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

I was 59 when I learned that my lifelong difficulty with reading, writing, and 'rithmatic was undiagnosed dyslexia! I suppose I _could_ lay the blame for my troubles with knitting patterns on that, especially since I've less trouble with pattterns that have a chart against which I can check my actions.

The first aran pattern I made up - as in picked the assorted stitch patterns out of a stich dictionary - had them all written. I got nowhere fast, despite loads of stitch markers. After I'd marked up what I needed on graph paper, I sped right along with never a hitch!

I have no hope that all pattern writers will ever get together on a standardized way to write out patterns, but there _is_ hope for standardization of knitting charts and crochet symbols. In fact, the English speaking world is behind on that count. Folks all over Europe, Aisa, and the Middle-East exchange charted patterns all the time, even though they're unable to read the language any notations are in.


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## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I have no hope that all pattern writers will ever get together on a standardized way to write out patterns, but there _is_ hope for standardization of knitting charts and crochet symbols. In fact, the English speaking world is behind on that count. Folks all over Europe, Aisa, and the Middle-East exchange charted patterns all the time, even though they're unable to read the language any notations are in.


I'm in agreement with you on this point, Jessica-Jean. I've followed crochet charts from German magazines and other languages, without a problem. Charts are universally understood.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

http:/


LadyBecket said:


> AMEN!!! I have the worst time when they don't use some kind of standard for patterns, even internationally. I love patterns from the UK, they are so beautiful but I do have to refer back to a list that compares our abbr. I don't mean to be picky, I love their patterns no matter what!!


Ah yes, but I have the same problem when facing an American pattern. (And crotchet is worse than knitting as they use the same terms to mean different stitches. At least with knitting it is generally a different term that is not used in the other one thus lessening the confusion. You can tell by looking at a knitting pattern where it comes from but not a crotchet pattern unless it says somewhere or gives instructions for the stitches)

While I do agree that it can very hard to understand some patterns remember if we take the idea in the first post. 
Patterns are not to teach you how to knit, but how to knit this item. And so if you are teaching a student nurse something from scratch you use different terms than if you are writing a procedure manual to tell experienced staff how to do something.
Every thing we do has abbreviations and lingo that are only understood by those 'in the know'. And this varies between countries. Give me an American nursing book and I am totally lost- because they use different terms ,measurements etc than we do here. Or many recipes I see on KP are hard to follow because different terms and ingredients are used. In all of these areas the UK ways are much more understanable to me that the US.

I actually think that it has got harder. Once patterns were written in a set way and we very quickly learned to read them. Just like learning to read it takes time, have you ever tried to learn a new language? Its hard but that is what you are doing when you learn to knit or crotchet. You need to learn what all the new words mean.
But today people are so busy trying to make a pattern understandable that they wrote it their own way. This might help for this item but not for the next, which could be written totally differently. So for every pattern is is possible that you will need to work out how the pattern is meant to be read.

In July I am going to attempt to demystify this issue with a workshop on how to read knitting patterns. This is still (fortunately for me) a long way away as I have no idea how I will go about it but it is clearly needed.


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## dragondrummer (Jun 5, 2011)

You are definitely NOT alone, Joanie! I feel like I haven't a brain cell left trying to interpret even some so called "easy" knitting patterns. Some pattern writers seem to assume an awful lot of knowledge for beginning knitters.


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## jasann100 (Sep 1, 2011)

I have been knitting since I was 13 years old and I am now 70 years old and I can read Australian and English patterns really easily, and fully understand them but other countries patterns are too difficult, not being educated in them I find them too hard and for the enjoyment of knitting I would rather stick to those I know.


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## 3mom (Apr 20, 2011)

There is one Author (pattern company) whose patterns I skip just for the fact that I never can understand their instructions. Some of them are so wordy, while others abbreviate so much it looses the meaning. You're not alone!!


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> *I think it is wonderful that you know enough about knitting and crocheting to write patterns. You are right, there are no schools to teach writing patterns, on the other hand there are no schools that teach knitting or crochet pattern interpretation unless it is through the occasional craft course. That is why I am so grateful to have friends on a forum like this one. What I was saying about "sad" was that my friend who has crocheted for years could not tell me the meaning of the pattern until she could figure it out. To use my previous comparison about being nursing instructor.... how would it be if a nursing student asked me how to start an intravenous injection (IV) and I had to tell the student to hold on, that I had to go and read and practice how to do it first. That would be ridiculous.
> 
> When one writes on forums, etc. it is sometimes hard to make clear what one means. I did not intend to insult you in any way. As said previously, I was just ventilating.
> 
> Hugs, Joanie*


Nurses know how to do the procedures they do every day (well we hope they do) but need to check up and work out how to do the ones that they don't often do. And so with patterns, if it is something new than you need to work it out. 
I agree that not all patterns are clear- but we need to learn to read them, (and/or charts) if we want to learn to knit other peoples work. And if we are going to get them from different places they willl be written differently. And remember that many of us use free patterns- these could simply be an 'ordinary' knitter trying to tell how s/he did something- and they need not have any more idea about patterns than most knitters. However when buying a pattern it is reasonable to expect a higher standard- but on what do you base that?
After all some people understand one way of writing a pattern and others like it written a different way. Some love charts and would rather never use anything but a chart, others hate them and wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. So which does a designer use? i believe it is extremely time consuming setting out a chart and so not all designers have this time. And not all designers could do so even if they had the time.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

Joanie,some of the patterns you have to stand on your head and you still don't understand them,i think the problems are getting worse. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## elaineadams (Oct 17, 2011)

hehehehehehehe...I knew it wasn't just me....I got so fed up of ripping that I now look at the abbreviations, and the pattern, and very often re-write it before I actually start to knit it. I always do a swatch as well. And just for information, I have just re-written a Vogue pattern that I paid for, that actually had the stitch count wrong...it was short of 8 stitches or had 6 too many stitches...I added the 8 stitches for the end of the rows to work out right and remain in pattern, rather than lose 6 stitches....right enough its only a cabled bag but it does matter.


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## Jeannie2009 (Mar 8, 2013)

Like so many others patterns can often be a trial.
I write the instructions out on a sheet of copy paper. The instructions are written in words that have meaning to me, not as written by the pattern company. Most of the time this simple act clarifies what I am reading. This would be the place where I write down charts line by line. I also leave space for a line count when necessary.
Wish I could say that I keep these sheets afterwards with a photo of the finished product..I dont... not that organized. Hope that is useful.


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## Marie from NC (Mar 3, 2013)

Oh, thank goodness! I thought it was just me and that my mind was not as sharp as it used to be. There were a few patterns over the last few months that I just had to give up on because I couldn't understand the pattern. That was, of course, before I found KP. I do know that there have mistakes in patterns I've gotten offline. One in particular was for two-at-a-time socks. After I started the heel flap, I realized it just didn't look right. After looking at a few other patterns, I was able to frog and start the flap over. Thank goodness for Lifelines which I learned about here on KP.


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## peanutpatty (Oct 14, 2012)

OBOY! I can relate. My impatience dictates that after two tries, the yarn gets made into something altogether different.
As for charts, I make copies, then I can mess the copies up all I want by marking where I am. But they seem to be a whole new language.


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## MimiPat (Aug 5, 2011)

I always thought it was not really true when someone said " if you can knit and purl, you can make anything". I find some of the instructions so frustrating I can not make everything I would like and I can knit and purl. Even when I have tried to rewrite the directions, sometimes the numbers do not come out they way they should in the pattern because the directions were not clear.


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## greatgrannytidy (Mar 10, 2013)

I just look at the abreviations on the crochet pattern. soon as I see sc = single crochet I know it´s US terms. UK do not have a single crochet. problem solved for me.


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## Moisey (Mar 17, 2013)

Joan 4115 I commiserate with you! I have a pattern for Slipper Boots I have been working on. The photo of them looks very nice & the lady who designed them is obviously very clever, but the way the pattern is written is very confusing. I'm talking about the repetition of crocheting rows "above". An example is:
ROW 15: Rep row 2.
ROWS 16-18: Repeat Row 3. (so far, so good)
ROWS 19-22: Repeat Rep rows 15-18 consecutively.

so you look back at row 15 & it says Rep Row 2 so you look back to Row 2.
Then you look at rows 16-18 which says Repeat Row 3.

Now this pattern for the soles of the slippers is a very good pattern. I like it, but we are mainly using three different types of rows. One is for increasing each end of the row, one for decreasing each end of the row, and the main row used is a plain row of dc (English) or sc (American). Very simple indeed & could have been written as "increase each end of the row, as before" & "decrease each end of the row, as before" & "continue in plan dc (sc) for X number of rows." This was only the for soles & I mastered them alright even though I have to convert all my American patterns to the English terms first & colour code the different sizes in brackets so I crochet the correct size.
However the rest of the Slipper Boots pattern became harder & harder as the same layout was used for more complicated stitches & as I don't give up easily I stuck to the bitter end & then burst out laughing. I had made a boot to fit "Big Foot" & that was only the instep & heel part. I hadn't even done the top ribbing part at that stage. Well I had to "frog" it, as you all say, & have kept the soles & fashioned my own boots complete with ribbed ankles which look great. Hubby & I have a pair each & am working on my third pair to match his beanie I just completed. Sometimes you have to go with your own instinct & not look back. Agreed? Have fun. Moisey.


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## eggplantlady (Apr 10, 2011)

scottybearNSW said:


> Thats one of the reasons I have dug out all my old patterns and have started making things from them. The instructions are clear. When you come to the decreasing each row is writte out instead of saying 'k2together, work in pattern to last 2 stitches, k2together'.


Well this is great news for me - I didn't know that old patterns wrote out all the dirty details! I can't tell you how many projects I have totally given up on because when I come to either: "decrease/increase while staying in pattern" or "work left side as right reversing all stitching" I can't for the life of me get it to work. One lovely sweater pattern had me so confused that I brought it to my LYS and they couldn't figure it out either!


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## wjeanc (Nov 15, 2012)

I was determined to learn socks. First attempts were very frustrating but came out ok, not great, just ok. The heel turn and gussett just about did me in.

Kept looking at patterns. Finally found one that made sense to me and I could follow. Now they're easy. Can even knit the fancy patterned socks, but always go back to my easy pattern for the heel turn and gussett. 

You just have to keep looking and learning what works for you.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

I usually can figure out a knitting pattern, even if it means going one row at a time, but I probably could not figure out a crochet pattern if my life depended on it. As for charts...forget about it!


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## Sue1942 (May 7, 2011)

When I have a confusing pattern; I take a sheet of paper and write the first instruction up to the punctuation on the first line.
the next instruction to the next puctuation on the next line.
continue this until I understand what is being told.
this can be used for knitting or crochet patterns.
I agree charts are wonderful, but for a newbie to charts it can be scary.
I hope this helps.
Remember some patterns can have mistakes in them.


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## dawnmc1 (Sep 3, 2011)

The people who publish the patterns probably think that everyone knows what they are talking about and don't realise everyone isn't so knowledgeable in the knitting terms.


joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


 :roll:


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## TNS (Nov 27, 2012)

It's always off-putting when you think you are following the instructions but can't get it right! Usually it's due to different ways of interpreting the instructions. As I have only recently started knitting again I find some instructions which appear straight forward are not now done the way I expect, so now I check for U- tube demo's on most of them, and that has solved most (not all) of my problems. I too felt really stupid at the start, when I just couldn't work out what I was meant to be doing, but I've had lots of help from our wonderful KPers. Thank you all.


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## deercreek (Jan 28, 2012)

Why do you think I have so many post?? I call it a brain fart! Of course Cape ears are so helpful you learn to think they know all the answers to every question. And the scary thing is they do


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

I have an immediate shortage of expression without a free knitting font I downloaded.

In a Word processing "table" I can use:
k nit
p url
/ = k2tog
\ = ssk
O = YO (or yard forward)
and ^ (for a 3 st decrease)

In Excel I have to put ' in front of either a single number ('01) or the k2tog/ssk symbols. Otherwise Excel will fight me for math functions...when I'm not ready for it. The attachment I gave earlier covers a lot of the symbols that the paid-for and free knitting program/fonts can give...more than my simple 6. But if you're doing a pattern on a potholder/dishcloth - how many symbols DO you need?


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## Pam Bardwell (Jan 27, 2013)

I have yet to use a chart for knitting. Makes me think back to embroidery and cross-stitch...took me forever to try the counted cross-stitch and once I did, I've never done another stamped kit! I will get there and I think I'll like it. They have line markers to help you keep your place, and starting with something small will help too. I agree with Jessica-Jean...as long as you're learning, you're living! )


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## triana (May 2, 2012)

I'm loving this. I've always had a thing about not being good at maths BUT I could read a complicated aran knitting pattern. I think what I learned was that actually working the pattern helped more than reading it alone. I'll have a go at most patterns now, but I do still find it easier to knit from a written pattern than a chart. It may just be what's easiest for me. I have come unstuck with some of the free patterns but most of them I've been able to knit up some great things. Maybe it boils down to personal preference and a bit of 'what you get you pay for'. Yolanda (who is Spanish) in our knit and natter is multilingual and she finds the Bergere de France patterns in French the easiest to read. I think our world is so much bigger now than when I first started knitting, we are open to so many different styles and it has become a bit of a mixture of US, UK, Australia etc! In the UK the Daily Mail newspaper has been carrying free knitting patterns and I noticed, in the first one when talking about yarn they mention DK and Sport weight! I don't think I'll be writing a knitting pattern any time soon, its far too complicated to make it easy to use. It's been great to read everyone's take on this


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## suecanknit (Apr 12, 2011)

I quite often come across patterns that( "don't work) in my eyes no matter what I do it just doesn't work then I got the idea to look on google and see if there are any errata's and 9times out of10 there is a mistake which is a bit annoying seeing as I spent all this time trying to figure out the pattern so now when I get new patterns I look and see if there is any mistakes(errata's ) if there is I print the mistakes out and put it with the pattern so there is no wasted time.


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## shiradon (Apr 6, 2012)

This is so right on spot. I just started a sweater. I understand all the stitches but I am going to frequent my lys to be sure I have them all going in the right place. :O)


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## judi wess (Sep 29, 2011)

I even bought a book about learning to knit from charts. I started to read it before trying the lessons and the more I read, the more confused I became. The book is sitting on the pattern shelf. Maybe I will muster up enough patience to give it a go soon, maybe.


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## KarenLeigh (Sep 6, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


I almost always re-write a knitting pattern to show row-by-row what I need to do. I expand all of the abbreviations (for example, I will write K4 as K,K,K,K). I guess I am more visual when it comes to keeping track of where I'm at within a pattern. Makes counting easier, too. This can take some time, but once done I put my expanded instructions in the computer and can re-print a "project sheet" whenever needed. Sometimes this practice also helps me detect errors in the pattern before I actually encounter them in the live piece I am working on.


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## LunaDragon (Sep 8, 2012)

Some times my thinking cap is not on just right. I had to ask a question just the other day. Thankfully the wonderful people here answered my question.


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## forrestsmum1 (Nov 16, 2011)

It really is a hot topic....and I have had my fair share of problems trying to understand a pattern or three! My early knitting days were spent on Australian patterns, very easy to follow, or maybe I picked simple ones, too long ago to remember. Then the internet arrived and so did the UK and USA patterns and OMG what a change, I learned the basics all over again, twice! Then there were things called charts, I vowed to never try these...could not make head nor tail of them, and that is a few years ago now, and the dreaded chart is behind me, another knitting skill under my belt.
Take your time to learn the new pattern, "read" your knitting, each correction adds to your abilities, and a great sense of achievement when your project is completed.
Have a brilliant day everyone!


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## jonibee (Nov 3, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


That's why it's good advice to read it through first..because if you just jump in and start knitting and get to the point of not understanding..it can turn into chaos..thank goodness for all the knitters out there that can help us when we're up against a "brick wall"...Yes..some creators of patterns are not very clear when it comes to the written word..I have been in this predicament too...


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## frani512 (Apr 15, 2012)

I think you just have to stick with it. The other night I had my iPad out ready to ask the KP experts to help me understand a pattern, when all of a sudden the light dawned! I got it! But if you need help, there are many experts here.


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## newbiebecky (Feb 15, 2012)

I am in your corner!


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## mperrone (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi Joanie ~

I, too, have trouble, especially with knitting since I've only been doing it for about a year. Please don't laugh at this, but I break down the pattern by actually typing out the instructions line-by-line. If the pattern calls for an increase every 4th row, 5 times, I type or write the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, five times and cross each one off as I do the row. Sometimes just rewriting the instructions makes them easier to follow. With increasing and decreasing, I write the number of stitches I should have each time I do either one, and find that easier than reading and keeping track of the pattern. I agree with you -- sometimes I think these patterns are written in another language.

mperrone (Marianne)


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## Deemeegee (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi! I like it both ways, the instructions and the charts! I am working on an exploded lace crochet shawl right now and after getting the stitches in my head from the directions, all I need now is a quick reference at the chart now and then (especially on joining rows).


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## Tennessee.Gal (Mar 11, 2012)

Joanie, you are not alone. I avoid patterns that are complicated. The first time I knit a pair of socks, I wrote little notes all over the pattern so I'd know what to do next time. 

Not long ago, I bought a faroese shawl pattern from a seller on Ravelry. It seemed very "wordy" but after reading it through several times, I thought I understood. Wrong. I started over several times, but at the same point ended up with not enough stitches on the left needle. In desperation, I emailed her; she kindly replied and we discovered what I was doing wrong. I was adding an extra stitch with each yarnover, so no wonder I didn't have enough. She told me how many stitches I should have on each row in the first part -- the complicated part, with lots of yarnovers and backward yarnovers. How I wished she had included that in the pattern. I wrote it in myself, for my own use. So patterns are sometimes not clear, or could be explained better.


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## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

Tennesse gal I am with you. A while back I mentioned how the older patterns were so much easier to follow.


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

Sometimes


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## Toyknitter (Feb 5, 2011)

I write out patterns and check the rows as I go, gave up on row counters even though I tried a lot of them. I too find the UK patterns easier to follow and have a few in Spanish and English and find them easier. Not all the US patterns are difficult, but enough that I would prefer to use UK. I've never learned charts and have no desire to, so if a pattern is charted only I don't bother with it. I have learned that sometimes patterns that don't seem to make sense, if followed exactly work. I do find a lot of errors in US patterns and it is very frustrating when you are a beginner. I would call myself an intermediate knitter at this point and envy those of you who have a LYS that is helpful .


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## SandraSK (Mar 22, 2013)

You are definitely not alone!! If it weren't for my knitting teacher, I would be up that proverbial creek. I don't understand why the writers of patterns can't make them simple to understand the way my teacher does. I really do know how you feel! I was a nurse for many years and am not stupid, but those patterns certainly make me feel stupid! Happy knitting!


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## Ann745 (Oct 29, 2012)

My pet peeve is when a pattern does not specify that it only comes in chart form. Or parts of it are written in c hart form or that it is written for using magic loop only! I think the artist selling patterns should present them in different formats. That way the buyers are all happy !


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## knitknack (Oct 30, 2011)

You are not alone. Many of us who have been knitting and crocheting for years still get smacked upside the head when trying to understand the writings of the designers who are of the mind set that everyone is inside their head and can understand the jibberish they sometimes write.


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## peanutpatty (Oct 14, 2012)

mperrone said:


> Hi Joanie ~
> 
> I, too, have trouble, especially with knitting since I've only been doing it for about a year. Please don't laugh at this, but I break down the pattern by actually typing out the instructions line-by-line. If the pattern calls for an increase every 4th row, 5 times, I type or write the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, five times and cross each one off as I do the row. Sometimes just rewriting the instructions makes them easier to follow. With increasing and decreasing, I write the number of stitches I should have each time I do either one, and find that easier than reading and keeping track of the pattern. I agree with you -- sometimes I think these patterns are written in another language.
> 
> mperrone (Marianne)


I do the1, 2, 3, 4 thing as well. When I download a pattern I print 2 copies, one to save and one to write on. Then I can add at the end of the row what row of pattern I should be on, how many stitches I should have, increases or decreases on this row, etc. If I get confused, I can go back row by row and see what I should have done. It's sometimes tedious but beats frogging!


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


I agree with you. Seems some think they are doing a chemistry formula to write these out. Its not all that hard to make sense but some just want to impress someone. Some patterns can be written in maybe two simple sentence but no must drag it out for 12 pages. We aren't dumb its the writers that think we are.


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## Strickliese (Jan 6, 2012)

Jokim said:


> I'm in agreement with you on this point, Jessica-Jean. I've followed crochet charts from German magazines and other languages, without a problem. Charts are universally understood.


I agree - the nice thing about charts is that they are universally understandalbe. As long as standard abbreviations are used, following a chart is pretty simple. Also, often the actual pattern can be seen by the flow of the symbols in the chart.


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## missyern (Jan 23, 2011)

I think she means it is sad that the pattern is so hard to understand.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Joy Marshall said:


> After knitting for about 80 years I get the screaming mimmies when I see a chart. I don't like them and don't want to learn them. I feel cheated when I buy a knitting book or magazine and the patterns use charts. I have complained and told them that and the reply I get is that charts save space. I wonder. To me it smacks of laziness. Why couldn't they just omit a pattern or two and make more space?
> I got a knitting book in the mail today that I had been waiting for with great anticipation. Imagine my chagrin when I opened it and it appears all the patterns with lace on them are just charted


That would make me want my money back... I honestly don't have a problem with some charts... but why can't they all be written the same way... it seems as though some go out of the way to make it -charts-written word- instructions as difficult as possible... its like they leave out "the dash of nutmeg" so we won't be able to copy exactly like its suppose to be.. I know that's silly, but according to the movies it use to happen with prized recipes..  I have just as hard a time with crochet patterns... Oh my gosh... who sits and thinks these things up??? the last one I did I struggled through frogging several times... with crochet you realize your mistakes on the next row when the stitch you crochet into isn't there! so its frog time.. I wore out the yarn and said forget it... just not worth the agony!!!


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## cherylthompson (Feb 18, 2013)

galaxycraft said:


> One of the reasons I don't buy books on-line without having seen it in person first.
> If they (the seller) would make a note to the fact that a certain amount of patterns are charted only, may change my mind.
> Especially when a few of those books that I did get on-line, were to be gifts and the intended does not do charts.


 :thumbup:


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## homesweethome (Jan 27, 2011)

I think that with the price of patterns increasing as much as they have that the designers should make the patterns as simple to understand as possible. It's ridiculous to pay $7.99 or more for a pattern and not understand it because they are trying to "save space".


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## owlet2012 (Oct 19, 2012)

No you aren't alone as i wanted to knit a blanket and i did everything it said, but the stitches disappeared and i was suppose to end up with the same amount as i started with.


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## cherylthompson (Feb 18, 2013)

dragondrummer said:


> You are definitely NOT alone, Joanie! I feel like I haven't a brain cell left trying to interpret even some so called "easy" knitting patterns. Some pattern writers seem to assume an awful lot of knowledge for beginning knitters.


I agree with this! Someone's "beginning" pattern is not necessarily a "beginner's" beginning pattern. And yes, I am too confused by pattern lingo and the lack of consistency.


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## ann-other-knitter (Mar 17, 2012)

I design a few items, and keep them to myself because it is so hard to write down instructions. If you read some of Elizabeth Zimmerman's early patterns, she calls them pithy instructions. They give a minimum of instructions.
So dear readers, a lot of my stuff I can't even make a second time because there are no patterns for them.


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## Mari-Ann (Feb 11, 2013)

I totally agree with you on confusing pattern instructions. While waiting for answers for questions asked about a pattern, I recharted it to my measurements. What was supposed to be a small, in reality, was a medium. Why aren't measurements listed, as in sewing patterns? No ease measurements,etc? Those of you giving me incouragement, I thank you. 
I took care of it myself. I'm on my way once again.


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## Penshu (Jan 28, 2013)

I feel the same way at times. Especially with charts. Have no idea how to follow one. Does anyone have a suggestion for a starter chart patter 
N?


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I was 59 when I learned that my lifelong difficulty with reading, writing, and 'rithmatic was undiagnosed dyslexia! I suppose I _could_ lay the blame for my troubles with knitting patterns on that, especially since I've less trouble with pattterns that have a chart against which I can check my actions.
> 
> The first aran pattern I made up - as in picked the assorted stitch patterns out of a stich dictionary - had them all written. I got nowhere fast, despite loads of stitch markers. After I'd marked up what I needed on graph paper, I sped right along with never a hitch!
> 
> I have no hope that all pattern writers will ever get together on a standardized way to write out patterns, but there _is_ hope for standardization of knitting charts and crochet symbols. In fact, the English speaking world is behind on that count. Folks all over Europe, Aisa, and the Middle-East exchange charted patterns all the time, even though they're unable to read the language any notations are in.


I was in my late 40's when I learned that the trouble I was having was dyslexia.. Is good to hear I'm not the only one that has struggled.. it opened up my world to know it was a condition and not me... I just try harder... its a struggle with most things and the results are amazing when I get it right... some things are literally like standing on my head to do them right but I practice and eventually do get them right.. I have had 56 years to perfect this brain to think AROUND the box not just outside it...  
I agree that standard symbols are wonderful and something most all can learn from.. but not all chart makers use them so that's where those issues come in.. I would say that all I have seen do have a legend that shows us what the symbols mean and that they can be figured out... the chart reading class uses colors to signify(along with symbols) the different stitches and that helps tremendously


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## hgayle (Aug 22, 2011)

Years ago, I enrolled in a Beginning Crochet class through an adult education class. Our instructor seemed very knowledgeable and had even had some of her designs published. Midway thru the 6 week course, our assignment was to choose an easy pattern and get started on it and bring it to class the following week. I chose a jacket made up of granny squares. I completed one round before I was stumped. The pattern made no sense, and I couldn't figure out what it meant. When I went back to class and showed the pattern to the instructor, she was also puzzled after reading it. She picked up what I had started, and after a couple of minutes of fiddling with it, she said something like, "Oh they assume you know to do an extra chain . . . . ." My reply to her was, well you know what happens when you assume. I tried to teach myself from a book, and had the same problem. It didn't say to do an extra stitch at the end of the row. And, I agree, knitting patterns used to be a whole lot easier to interpret. And I still don't know how to crochet.


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Do you think they read their own patterns after writting them? And then do they work the pattern to make sure its correct? Sometime I think not.


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## jerrilou (Jul 8, 2011)

Looks like everyone has some of the same problems. I recently crocheted a sweater vest and ripped out the back three times. Finally got it done, but could never figure out the front. I've crocheted for about 65 years, so just did the fronts the way I thought they should look. Turned out cute and I've already worn it. Good luck to all you knitters and crocheters on these pattern problems.


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## Jenise D (Feb 22, 2013)

When I was learning to knit 35 years ago, my wonderful MIL gave this advice, read one stitch at a time, or read between the commas, do the stitches, then continue. She also advised that if you are confused, have someone read the pattern as you are doing the stitches until you understand it. That advice has saved me soooooo many times!!!!


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## xenabobb (Sep 6, 2011)

Hi Joanie...you are so NOT alone in this! Even so, I still prefer a written pattern to a chart. Maybe it is because that is to what I am accustomed. Don't give up! And there is ALWAYS help here on KP!


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## Jenise D (Feb 22, 2013)

When I was learning to knit 35 years ago, my wonderful MIL gave this advice, read one stitch at a time, or read between the commas, do the stitches, then continue. She also advised that if you are confused, have someone read the pattern as you are doing the stitches until you understand it. That advice has saved me soooooo many times!!!! But I do admit I do get stumped sometimes!


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## NellieKnitter (Sep 10, 2012)

Sue1942 said:


> When I have a confusing pattern; I take a sheet of paper and write the first instruction up to the punctuation on the first line.
> the next instruction to the next puctuation on the next line.
> continue this until I understand what is being told.
> this can be used for knitting or crochet patterns.
> ...


I agree with Sue, I write out the instructions also and it is great to have when you are repeating the instructions for back or front, ect. or making the pattern again. Another good habit to develop is to check on-line for corrections to the pattern, before you start the project.


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## Badgerbluff (Nov 11, 2012)

Hmmm- I have lots of ideas, just not sure where to start. I have lots of 'pet peeves', the first being grammar. A lot of this has to do with the internet and it's availability to nearly everyone. It used to be, we read only what 'so called' professionals wrote; now we read what anyone has written.
As someone said 'a lot of free patterns have not been tested, and not written by a professional pattern writer.
Before the internet did you have access to patterns from other countries. Evan as small as the world has become, American, Canadian, and English 'terms' for common things are different.
I have been knitting for 65 yrs. but had never ventured into the host of techniques etc; however I have learned a lot of this from the internet. I also had never done charts, but this winter I wanted to challenge my mind by doing lace shawls.
I learned to read charts-- which is much simpler than reading rows of words ( abbreviations) for one row of charting. I believe we may get a bit lazy as we get older and don't think we should have to learn anything new.
Just remember that not every pattern we find on the internet has been written by a professional pattern writer--
I developed a mitten pattern that is very good and makes them exceptionally warm. A friend wanted me to write out the pattern which I did, but I never gave it to her or published it because I was afraid I may have not been explicit enough.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it-- haha.


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## tinyfae (Apr 24, 2012)

Oh , i feel your pain !!! i cant tell you how many times i have been working a pattern and bam ! brick wall i have no clue what they are trying to say and i end up frog the whole thing ugh... that is one of the times when i really wish yarn made a loud noise when you threw it lol maybe i need a brick skein for those special moments in my life ))


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## jenven (Dec 5, 2012)

I often discard a pattern after reading if the instructions are convoluted and confusing. I find that buying patterns from wool manufacturers in England is the safest bet as they are very clear to understand and very rarely have mistakes in them. Sirdar are my favourite!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I struggle and rip many times and I'm not dumb. Diagrams and a bit of explanation of what you're doing would help immensely. I will ask more questions next time. Thanks for the topic.


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

If this wasn't such a problem, there wouldn't be 6 pages and growing of comments and concerns. In the past few days there have been so many similar posts re easy vs hard patterns, not understanding the written pattern, trouble with charts by some. I know what my problem is (and I'm ONLY talking about ME here) - I'm inexperienced and can't assume anything, want to try charts but that's another learning curve to hurdle along with too many other newnesses compounding my inexperience, and I want to move on to new items but instead of one new thing to add to my 'what I've learned by beating my head into a wall' there may be 2 or 3 new items to tackle in one pattern which has produced little knitted work but a lot of wall patching. I look at patterns and read them thoroughly thinking that even if I don't make them, I'm learning abbreviations, techniques, etc. Also, I'm a rewriter - Excel is my best friend. I rewrite it so that I can have a better understanding; use highlighters to separate strings of knitting out of the * repeat from here or "same as row x" because that's when I get lost, plus I bracket under the sections of knitting sequences so that I know how many stitches I should have on the needles to that point plus calculate the total stitch count I should reach at the end of the rows. So? Right now I'm still at the wash cloth, scarf, shawl stage but am trying very hard to learn ..... and you are all so supportive and nice about helping all who have problems without being condescending or nasty which has happened to me in the past. There is nothing that makes you want to use your needles for plant stakes as a shop owner who acts like you are a pain in her rump. OK, climbing down off my soap box before I hurt myself...... Thanks again to all who have helped and encouraged me. (Oh and that damn scarf was ripped out for the 9th time and has been relegated to the farthest, darkest spot in the guest bedroom closet until it learns to cooperate! LOL)


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## DollieD (Mar 7, 2011)

Joanie,
I am with you on this...in a sense.
I have knit and crocheted for many years.
I stopped knitting for about 10 years.
When I began again....I felt I had become a bozo.
I just couldn't seem to get the patterns without reading them over and over. One day a sis was visiting, and was thumbing through a knitting mag. from 1972, and found a shawl she wanted me to make. I immediately felt I couldn't because of the detail.
I made the shawl in about a week, not even reading the pattern through. It just felt good. There are many new terms...which often I will remember, 'oh, I used to do this like that'...and carry on with the pattern. I often find myself changing patterns to suit me...or my experience...not sure which!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I avoid any pattern with a chart right now.



Penshu said:


> I feel the same way at times. Especially with charts. Have no idea how to follow one. Does anyone have a suggestion for a starter chart patter
> N?


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## Beve (May 5, 2012)

I find that most of the time when I don't read through the entire pattern to really understand how it is written, I tend to make mistakes. When I read it and am confused, I read it again and again until it makes sense. Some patterns are harder to read than others. I found one in a published knitting book for a celtic sweater that was a real challenge! But after reading it numerous times I finally figured it out!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not for Americans. People divided by a common language. I avoid them.



jenven said:


> I often discard a pattern after reading if the instructions are convoluted and confusing. I find that buying patterns from wool manufacturers in England is the safest bet as they are very clear to understand and very rarely have mistakes in them. Sirdar are my favourite!


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## PaKnitter (Mar 7, 2011)

There have been some patterns that have left me scratching my head. I just don't know what I'm suppose to do next. I use the internet to search for the same or similar pattern by someone else to solve the mystery. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I have no talent in reproducing a pattern. I follow a pattern stitch by stitch so if there's a mistake I'm up the creek without a paddle. 
I've only been knitting for 44 years but I swear there are more patterns out there with mistakes than years ago but that's probably because of the internet.


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## sdsimi (Feb 23, 2013)

Absolutely! Just when I think I understand, I attempt to knit the pattern and find out I don't have a clue!!


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## ElyseKnox (Sep 16, 2011)

eggplantlady said:


> Well this is great news for me - I didn't know that old patterns wrote out all the dirty details! I can't tell you how many projects I have totally given up on because when I come to either: "decrease/increase while staying in pattern" or "work left side as right reversing all stitching" I can't for the life of me get it to work. One lovely sweater pattern had me so confused that I brought it to my LYS and they couldn't figure it out either!


Eggplantlady, 
You just nailed one of my very biggest complaints. My reaction when I see the infamous "decrease/increase while staying in pattern" is that it is either laziness or a shortcut on the part of the pattern writer.

If I am able to be a little more forgiving I think that the writer may have no idea that such directions are of almost no value to other knitters. Different people process directions based on their brain and personality type and what works for some is pure greek to others.

Another thing, I have noticed when I am writing any kind of directions (knitting patterns, recipes, computer procedures, KP posts) that what I write first and think is very clear I often have to go back and edit.

Overall, I think clear precise writing is both a skill and a talent and some who design wonderful patterns may not ever be as good at writing the directions as they are at designing the project. Some patterns reach out and grab me and then I hit a wall with unclear directions. I soldier on, (often with help from others) and hope what I'm experiencing, in the end, makes me a better knitter.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've got a ton of equipment, a huge stash, but I don't buy patterns for this reason. I want to examine the patterns before attempting them.


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## 5Pat (Aug 29, 2011)

The first thing I do before I start knitting a new pattern is to see if there are any corrections for that pattern I want to knit.

Sometime the editors leave out important information. There are some designers who have beautiful ideas but cannot communicate to others.

I knit with a group of friends and we help each others all the time.

I have grown in my knitting skill by trying new patterns and this place is wonderful place to help each others.

Put the pattern aside and come back to it at a latter date sometime that help. 

I love charts because the show the each stitch.


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

I have re-written so many patterns so that I could follow the directions. Paragraphed directions are awful. Give me row by row or at least bullet points....


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## Mandy's Mom (Mar 26, 2011)

darowil said:


> Nurses know how to do the procedures they do every day (well we hope they do) but need to check up and work out how to do the ones that they don't often do. And so with patterns, if it is something new than you need to work it out.
> I agree that not all patterns are clear- but we need to learn to read them, (and/or charts) if we want to learn to knit other peoples work. And if we are going to get them from different places they willl be written differently. And remember that many of us use free patterns- these could simply be an 'ordinary' knitter trying to tell how s/he did something- and they need not have any more idea about patterns than most knitters. However when buying a pattern it is reasonable to expect a higher standard- but on what do you base that?
> After all some people understand one way of writing a pattern and others like it written a different way. Some love charts and would rather never use anything but a chart, others hate them and wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. So which does a designer use? i believe it is extremely time consuming setting out a chart and so not all designers have this time. And not all designers could do so even if they had the time.


Thanks, for your words of wisdom. We all have a favorite way to do things. And for most of us, learning a NEW/DIFFERENT way is something we fight against doing and excuse our 'prejudice' by saying it just isn't right! As an ex teacher, I remember that when teaching children, I had to use as many 'ways' of presenting the same material as possible because there are many 'ways' of learning, and for the material to be absorbed, it had to be presented in the way the child could accept. Unfortunately, adults (even older adults) are just like children when it comes to learning. They are just more vocal in their preferences! :-D However, being child-like is a really good thing! Remember: "Let the children come unto me."


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## basiamo (Sep 7, 2011)

You are right, sometimes the patterns, especially for crocheted items are written the way you cant understand.


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## Dusti (Jan 23, 2012)

The problem with designers is that they are human! It's very hard to write something in simple format from the designers standpoint of view because of what they KNOW about their pattern and ASSUME you KNOW. I have been harping on this one subject for eons!! All patterns should be TESTED before releasing them to the public AND they should be tested using a layman, NOT an experienced knitter!! It's that simple; it will alleviate a lot of head scratching and pattern-tossing from the get-go. Unfortunately I think designers either hand their test pattern over to an experienced knitter who (because they ARE so experienced) will know what the designer is intending regarding her pattern instructions regardless of how the pattern is written. Or the designer is just so darn sure the pattern couldn't have been written any simpler if she tried...only human. 

I use to design tapestry bead pattern eons ago and would give any new pattern I designed to anyone who was willing to work it up for me and take it for a spin, of course getting back to me if they hit a snag. I never gave my test patterns to the same people I used before as I wanted to be sure I was reaching the "layman." In a nutshell, all it takes is a consciencious designer to turn out a really good pattern ANYONE can follow. That said, it also follows that great artists don't necessarily make great teachers. 

If the pattern is driving you nuts, bad pattern, period. And I have been driven up a wall many times because of all the bad patterns out there.


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

I struggle with my DH's dyslexia...he considers me his walking dictionary....and he's a writer!!! So annoying. He even bought the Dragon software so he could just talk and it would write for him ... and he doesn't use it!!!!! but he does bring me flowers.



Ronie said:


> I was in my late 40's when I learned that the trouble I was having was dyslexia.. Is good to hear I'm not the only one that has struggled.. it opened up my world to know it was a condition and not me... I just try harder... its a struggle with most things and the results are amazing when I get it right... some things are literally like standing on my head to do them right but I practice and eventually do get them right.. I have had 56 years to perfect this brain to think AROUND the box not just outside it...
> I agree that standard symbols are wonderful and something most all can learn from.. but not all chart makers use them so that's where those issues come in.. I would say that all I have seen do have a legend that shows us what the symbols mean and that they can be figured out... the chart reading class uses colors to signify(along with symbols) the different stitches and that helps tremendously


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## yarnstars (Feb 26, 2011)

I have found that some difficult patterns have an explanation for any of the abbreviations that occur in the pattern. But I have found that some pattern makers have pictures to go with the pattern that do not even resemble the patterns work.


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

jenven said:


> I often discard a pattern after reading if the instructions are convoluted and confusing. I find that buying patterns from wool manufacturers in England is the safest bet as they are very clear to understand and very rarely have mistakes in them. Sirdar are my favourite!


Sirdar? I have a book of Sirdar sweaters patterns for children and I've had to re-write every one of them.


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## Donalda (Aug 31, 2011)

I feel your pain. Sometimes I just give up and throw the pattern away.


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## kmckinstry77 (Jan 18, 2013)

I have an M.S. in astronomy & astrophysics and sometimes have a hard time figuring out patterns & stitches. 
It's not the intelligence of the knitter so much as it is the clarity of the patterns... Persevere, it will be worth it. And do ask questions of the KPers since this group contains some extremely savvy people!


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## Dcsmith77 (Apr 18, 2011)

I there must have always been some problems with patterns, we just got used to some of the older jargon. My grandmother and her cousin used to get together regularly to work out a pattern. One would read, the other would crochet the stitches. When they were done, they had a sample both used, ignoring the written pattern. That was around 1940 to 1950 when I was pretty young and used to go sit with them and watch. I never thought of it as "sad" because they always seemed to be having fun. Several years ago, pattern writing seemed to change and I had trouble for a while reading the whole pattern before starting to knit, but that's part of the fun to me - figuring out how to do it.


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## morgansam51 (Apr 4, 2012)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


You are definitely not alone! I have had trouble in the past understanding some patterns. I used to work with a woman who was an expert knitter and I could always go to her with my problems. Sometimes all it takes is another set of eyes reading through the pattern and it will then make sense. At this time I don't know anyone who knows a lot about knitting that is why this forum is so helpful! Plus, I love looking at the finished projects! Hang in there.


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## Donalda (Aug 31, 2011)

You are 100% right about the wonderful people in this group. They (as Clint Eastwood would say) make my day!


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## weenie (Feb 6, 2013)

I totally agree with everything you all are saying. The patterns do have
Mistakes in them the stitch count doesn't agree with what the pattern says at all. As far as google translate How Do You Get it to Work. I do need an explanation on it. There are so many patterns but I don't understand them. Please help


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

weenie said:


> I totally agree with everything you all are saying. The patterns do have
> Mistakes in them the stitch count doesn't agree with what the pattern says at all. As far as google translate How Do You Get it to Work. I do need an explanation on it. There are so many patterns but I don't understand them. Please help


Unfortunately Google Translator doesn't have knittish in it's list. :-(


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## Catnip1948 (Aug 19, 2012)

I, too, am a retired nurse and cannot believe how difficult the patterns are to understand. I feel like I'm going backwards with my skills. Hang in there. We can't let it beat us.


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## Leland Sandy (Aug 24, 2011)

I suppose it would be nice if there was a standardized "language" in which all patterns were written, a little like the periodic table of the elements in chemistry. But, I sort of celebrate the differences - wait, wait, let me explain! I don't expect to be able to immediately use a recipe in cooking which was written by someone in, say, England - who uses grams instead of ounces and weight for some measurements while I use dry or liquid volume. Even in our art-forms, we accept that needle and hook sizes may vary because there is no international bureau of standards - which I think is a good thing.

Having said that, I hope all pattern-writers exercise care in sharing their creations with us, in as clearly written form as possible.


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## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

I agree with you. If they would give up on the long paragraphs, patterns would be easier to follow. Plus sometimes they just leave things out and assume you know what they are talking about. It's so frustrating.

I bough a Classic Elite Yarn pattern book and love it because the patterns are written clearly and are easy to follow. I think it's going to be my "bible."

A pattern writing course should be mandatory for all designers.


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## jmf6406 (Dec 13, 2012)

I sometimes have to search the web to see what the heck some abbreviation means. As far as charts go, I cheat and write the directions down for each row. Although I must say the chart does help one see where the pattern is going.


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## springrain0 (Mar 29, 2012)

No, you are not alone on this. I have read and re-read patterns several times. Eventually you get the idea of the pattern, especially after a lot of mistakes. Unfortunately, I have found that some patterns have mistakes in them. Keep trying.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

Joanie, I , too have had that problem, but most of the time if I can study the pattern, I'll see that I can work it out. If not, I will look up definitions of the part that I don't understand or rely on KP knitters to help me.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

headlemk said:


> I struggle with my DH's dyslexia...he considers me his walking dictionary....and he's a writer!!! So annoying. He even bought the Dragon software so he could just talk and it would write for him ... and he doesn't use it!!!!! but he does bring me flowers.


Well! the flowers corrects everything !! 
:thumbup:


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

unie said:


> Well! the flowers corrects everything !!
> :thumbup:


Most times, yes.


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## Gail DSouza (Nov 12, 2012)

I prefer doing the old patterns myself because they are clear and say to understand
I learnt how to read the thread crochet charts for doilies, tabletops etc but the knitting charts are beyond me
They appear to have varying, different symbols unlike the crochet ones which are standard and quite simple to follow


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## crempog (Mar 6, 2013)

Being new to knitting, I totally agree that patterns can be very confusing. Why can't they just use a little more space and write it all out so that the pattern flows instead of constantly referring to other parts of the pattern book i.e. K6, P6 * to * then follow as per V-neck pattern on page 52! I have the same issue with paper sewing patterns. It is most frustrating that you have to cut up the entire pattern which may be over several pages just to put one design together. And you know they never fold up and go back in that little envelope quite the same way again do they?


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## atb (Feb 25, 2013)

shel01 said:


> I've recently posted 'increase advice' and I'm very greatful to the responses I've recieved, but the thought of having to try it again for the umpteenth time has fried my brain. The back of the tunic i was knitting is now in the frog pond and hopefully will have enough yarn left to knit another top. But i totally understand what you are saying joanie


Literally in the frog pond? a pond in your garden? Or does it mean a pile of knitting discarded until you have time to undo the knitting and save the yarn for another project? Yes, I think that makes more sense. I love these expressions.


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## nhauf001 (Jan 18, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


I'm reminded of my Grandfather when he would say "it's so easy when you know the language" -- sometimes the style of writing is enough to throw me off -- just have to keep at it or put it up and try again later. -- (or maybe never, lol)
Naomi


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## Whalestooth (Nov 25, 2012)

Every day


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## wendyheather (Oct 21, 2011)

This week, I have looked at three different patterns and thought "what????" 

I just know there is no way on this planet that I could understand what they are trying to tell me. One of them was for a pair of socks that beginners could do!!

Gobbledegook, sheer gobbledegook.

What frightens me is that when I was working, I was a statistical analyst and could sort out all sorts of complicated figures!! Perhaps I've lost too many brain cells!


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## TerryLynn (Jul 26, 2011)

I felt that way when I had to dec neck/armhole @ the same time do the other side. Do What? I am still working on the sweater vest. :roll: :roll: I put it away and then I started the Ashton Shawlettes, I finished one and started another one, that one is called Buttercup and ran out of yarn. Went back to sweater vest to finish. My mom knows about the sweater vest a gift for my brother) and she said by the time I finish it will be summer.


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## domesticgod (Apr 6, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I'm in agreement with you on this point, Jessica-Jean. I've followed crochet charts from German magazines and other languages, without a problem. Charts are universally understood.


Amen!! I don't have any problem understanding written instructions for crochet, but I would definitely rather work from a chart. They're so much easier to follow and to keep your place. Since I'm rather new to knitting, charts are a whole new thing for me. I haven't had a chance to try any patterns with charts, but I'm not anticipating any problems (unless the person that wrote the pattern is a total idiot)


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## Toyknitter (Feb 5, 2011)

I was just reading the new posts and was very surprised to see that someone had experienced a lot of problems with a Sirdar pattern book. I have "The Essential Baby Book" by Sirdar and it's my all time favorite. On the rare occasion the directions do not seem to make sense, I have found that they are correct and it just didn't look right to me or somehow the stitches just fell into place as they should. Granted there are a few differences in terminology (there is a explanation of terms in the beginning) and the yarns are slightly different, but I have made almost every one of these patterns successfully and some more than once. I only wish I could readily find more Sirdar publications. Mary


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## willisn (Mar 5, 2013)

How strange, using a K for knit and a P for purl! 
Personally, it makes a lot more sense than black and blank.
Also, maybe Joanie should make a nurses' chart showing how to do a cath. That would make a lot of patients happy --- not.
Kudos to Joanie for bringing up a universally troublesome topic.


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## lettuceshop (May 20, 2011)

I have certainly help more than once from this knowledgeable forum. Great place for clarification.


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## stablemom (Oct 20, 2012)

YUP! All the time


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## celiaj (Apr 7, 2011)

If it sounds too complicated, I don't even try to do it, knitting and crochet are supposed to be relaxing, at least that's my theory.

CeliaJ


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## lindaknits (Mar 18, 2011)

I have been crocheting for many years (self-taught) and still stick to simple patterns.
I learned how to knit about 2 years ago and still do mostly garter stitch. I look at all these gorgeous shawls that people post on KP and am so envious. When I look at patterns for these - it looks like Greek to me!

But I've given many crocheted and knitted gifts and no one has ever returned anything!


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## Momofsee (Feb 2, 2013)

I'm in the same boat! As a new, self taught knitter I read the pattern over as a first step to see if its something I can tackle... I've even tried the " chart-chart" method of rewriting the pattern but to my chagrin I'm still stumped. I just finished a baby cocoon and ended up wingin it because I couldn't figure out how to "turn" to make the hood. It came out ok but still caused me great pain. Not sure at this point if ill ever be able to do anything other than scarfs, cowls and simple baby blankets! Lord knows I've bought an over abundance of yarn do I guess I'll have to keep at it until my brain clicks into gear!


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## Deb-Babbles (Mar 4, 2011)

Sometimes I think that a pattern is translated from one language to another. It will not be as clear to the new language and the one translating it may not even know that is makes others confused. 
Yes I have had a lot of patterns that I have had to read, reread and sometimes just not make because the instructions are just not workable. Makes me nuts too. Yet I have a problem with some other things too. So, when in doubt, check with someone who knows more about the pattern. You never know what the answer will be unless you ask. 
Hope you share what pattern it is and perhaps someone will be able to make knit and purl of it.


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## slep119438 (Apr 23, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?
> 
> There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.
> 
> Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


I have been knitting and crocheting for 63 years and we all feel stupid reading patterns at times. I resort to looking at the picture of the item. I hate charts, they too, are confusing at times. As for helping someone else figure out a pattern, sometimes I can just read it and explain it and sometimes I have to try it myself before I can explain it.


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## beckypatt (Mar 12, 2013)

No, I am new to crochet and I think the patterns are what I am intimidated with the most. I am so anxious to get some projects accomplished and yet I stare at the pattern and say Huh? I think this group is good for helping when we get stumped, we just have to ask.

Hugs, Becky


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

forrestsmum1 said:


> It really is a hot topic....and I have had my fair share of problems trying to understand a pattern or three! My early knitting days were spent on Australian patterns, very easy to follow, or maybe I picked simple ones, too long ago to remember. Then the internet arrived and so did the UK and USA patterns and OMG what a change, I learned the basics all over again, twice! Then there were things called charts, I vowed to never try these...could not make head nor tail of them, and that is a few years ago now, and the dreaded chart is behind me, another knitting skill under my belt.
> Take your time to learn the new pattern, "read" your knitting, each correction adds to your abilities, and a great sense of achievement when your project is completed.
> Have a brilliant day everyone!


 :thumbup: Way to go! :-D


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## Donna Williams (May 22, 2011)

I never use to understand all the abbrv. For knitting I only knew the simple basics knit, purl, my Aunt taught me when I was a young girl. I never continued until couple years ago here and there, I would study the knitting & crocheting abbrev. charts. I learned on YouTube by just typing in the stitch I wanted to know & Learn how. It really helps when you get more familiar with stitches and reading the patterns starts to make since & takes patients. There's free tutorials on how to too, the ones I watch they will reply to any pattern questions and may even have it in their video tutorial library. Best of luck!!!!!

NewStitchADay.com & Thecrochetcrowd.com  :thumbup:


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## paperclip (Feb 2, 2011)

I am too digging my old patterns they are so much easier to understand, no abbreviation,step by step explanations.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

I hear you and I agree. 
It seems that allot of the designer's try and put their own take on writing out a pattern. 

Far too much is taken for granted when one is following a pattern written by someone who assumes all the steps left out are a given to the person trying to follow it. Not all designers , but allot.

even one particulare stitch can have several names. Go figure....
I've also found that certain magazines will NOT help with questions pertaining to their approved patterns that they put out to the public. 

The thing to do is find a designer you are able to understand and follow their patterns. jmo


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## tbbrown12369 (Jan 21, 2011)

Joanie,
like you I am fairly educated. However when trying to do a pattern, I just can't get it. I can do cables, lace, ssk, k2tog. The pattern I am trying to do I can't get any further than line 4. My husband say just forget it. I can't I need to finish what I started. The first 5 rows are fine but the 93 stitches after that per row, I end up taking out. Its a real pain.
tbbrown12369


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

tbbrown12369 said:


> Joanie,
> like you I am fairly educated. However when trying to do a pattern, I just can't get it. I can do cables, lace, ssk, k2tog. The pattern I am trying to do I can't get any further than line 4. My husband say just forget it. I can't I need to finish what I started. The first 5 rows are fine but the 93 stitches after that per row, I end up taking out. Its a real pain.
> tbbrown12369


So? What pattern is it that's causing problems? I don't see it in your topics.


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## music70 (Nov 27, 2012)

When in doubt, give a shout (to all KPers)! I love the challenge of a new pattern, and know I can count on help from this site. I do find the chart method a little more difficult to follow, so I often write it out for myself.
PS to Waif - I've now added "numpty" to my vocabulary. Love it!!


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## gclemens (Feb 18, 2012)

I find that with MOST patterns that seem confusing at first if I start making the item it generally makes sense. That being said I always read a pattern completely from beginning to end before starting. And sometimes reading it out loud helps to clarify the directions.


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## cogemgal (Jun 19, 2012)

I laughed when read your topic. Reading patterns was one of the biggest reasons why I stopped knitting as a young person. Now, in my 50's, I'm still struggling with patterns, but, the difference is now, if I'm really stuck and I want to do the pattern; I write out so I understand it.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

gclemens said:


> I find that with MOST patterns that seem confusing at first if I start making the item it generally makes sense. That being said I always read a pattern completely from beginning to end before starting. And sometimes *reading it out loud* helps to clarify the directions.


Which is a good way to transfer information from one side of the brain to the other! :thumbup:


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## Linda (Jan 16, 2011)

YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I go to the elderly lady up the street from me and she just looks at me and tells me to stay off the computer. There should be a common way to write patterns. I have my way of doing things like everyone else so I guess when people sit down they think that we think like they do. I have frogged so many things just trying to figure things out. I really hate it when you get half way or 3/4 of the way done and there it is ???? so you have to either figure it out or kinda make you own pattern.


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## Dorsey (Jan 20, 2012)

Joy Marshall said:


> After knitting for about 80 years I get the screaming mimmies when I see a chart. I don't like them and don't want to learn them. I feel cheated when I buy a knitting book or magazine and the patterns use charts. I have complained and told them that and the reply I get is that charts save space. I wonder. To me it smacks of laziness. Why couldn't they just omit a pattern or two and make more space?
> I got a knitting book in the mail today that I had been waiting for with great anticipation. Imagine my chagrin when I opened it and it appears all the patterns with lace on them are just charted


Joy,I share your pain. I hate charts so when I ordered a pattern thru Patternfish, I was apprehensive about what I would get and it was not a cheap pattern, either. I was delighted to find the pattern had both chart and written out directions. And also had stitch counts frequently. With some lace panels on the sweater, that will be really helpful. 
The designer was Elizaknits.com and I surely do think she does a good job of explaining her patterns. I have not started the sweater yet as I have a cast on my left hand until tomorrow, but will start it as soon as dr. says I can knit.
Dot
PS - I am 82 but have tried a lot of new things, like lace, since finding KP, so it is not just age related. I don't think.


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## EFerg (Apr 9, 2012)

Joy Marshall said:


> After knitting for about 80 years I get the screaming mimmies when I see a chart. I don't like them and don't want to learn them. I feel cheated when I buy a knitting book or magazine and the patterns use charts. I have complained and told them that and the reply I get is that charts save space. I wonder. To me it smacks of laziness. Why couldn't they just omit a pattern or two and make more space?
> I got a knitting book in the mail today that I had been waiting for with great anticipation. Imagine my chagrin when I opened it and it appears all the patterns with lace on them are just charted


I totally agree. I don't like charts either and have had to skip quite a few patterns that I would loved to have tried simply because they were charted. I am not a visual person so reading a chart is just difficult for me. It's much easier to follow along with the written word!


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## saskdakota (Mar 27, 2013)

I feel the same as you. And I am a nurse too!!! Ha Ha. Seriously though, recently bought two ebook patterns and have given up on them as they are both too hard to decipher. I am going to take them to my mom when I go for Easter to see if she can decipher them.


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## Ginny K (Jun 1, 2011)

Waif said:


> I SO understand! Sometimes I feel like a complete numpty trying to follow instructions!


Ditto


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## rutledge54 (Apr 7, 2011)

I was going to say...numpty isn't a word I've ever heard but I like it! Can we borrow it for the US?


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## tbbrown12369 (Jan 21, 2011)

I sent it Private Message.
tammy


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## WendyPolk (Nov 11, 2012)

Sure they would! But the Foley would be inserted into a nostril and the needle tip would bend! LOL!

Wendy Polk


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## Aunt Nay (Nov 25, 2011)

I can only speak for me, but I've felt that way with some patterns. I've quit some projects when the confusion got too great.

That said, it often helps to have someone else look at it with you.


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## Mary Glass (Mar 26, 2013)

I like that word numpty too. Sometimes I have difficulty and stay to my tried and true patterns. It saves time and with repetition I can complete the project quicker. I recently completed a Patons Fairytale pattern cot cover and had difficulty with the 8 row lace border. I had several attempts but got it in the end. Sometimes I think it is a mental block.


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## Gmajan (Mar 27, 2013)

Reading these comments, have given me the courage to ask my question about the Romantic Ruffle Scarf pattern. For the needle, it says: Needles. Size 5 or 6, 32" to 40" long depending on your gauge. 
Is the 32" to 40" long referring to the needle length (that's how it reads) , or is it referring to the finished scarf length ? I'm not aware of a needle that long, even in a circular !! Confused by the way it's stated . Thanks


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## CAS50 (Mar 26, 2012)

I learned to crochet over 30 years ago by taking a class with a lady who taught us to read the pattern.

I gave up on knitting several times because I thought the patterns were impossible to understand.

With some practice, and a Craftsy class, I'm knitting now! I am really thankful for the internet because when I don't understand what an abbreviation or technique is I can google it and often find a video if necessary! 

I ask here too, and there are so many nice knitters that will help. 

I'm glad I didn't give up. Even being a newbie, I can see some patterns are very poorly written and many have mistakes. I get the double bonus to my self esteem by finishing a project AND actually understanding the pattern! lol!


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

Gmajan said:


> Reading these comments, have given me the courage to ask my question about the Romantic Ruffle Scarf pattern. For the needle, it says: Needles. Size 5 or 6, 32" to 40" long depending on your gauge.
> Is the 32" to 40" long referring to the needle length (that's how it reads) , or is it referring to the finished scarf length ? I'm not aware of a needle that long, even in a circular !! Confused by the way it's stated . Thanks


As for as I can tell they are telling you to use either Size 5 or 6 circular needles with 32" or 40" cords.


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## bilbep (Jun 8, 2011)

I have wondered if a lot of the free patterns are written by people who are inexperienced at writing them. Their intention is good, but the end product leaves much to be desired.


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## linny anne (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi,

I concur, especially being a new knitter. Also I have found it very helpful when pictures are included with the pattern, showing the different stages of the article. Thank goodness for KP!!

Good luck


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


I'm one of those weird people who doesn't blame myself for the actions of others unless I did something directly to cause their actions. Poorly written patterns are not a reflection on the reader :~). Yes, indeed, it is frustrating. It's getting to the point where if I can't read the pattern before buying, I don't buy.


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## joanelba (Mar 27, 2013)

you are not the only one !
.I have a pattern,, then i read through the whole thing and realize that i dont understand some of the language. It may be just one little thing but then I give up and dont start that one.
since all the knitting shops closed in this area there is no help..
Just like sizes in clothing, nothing is ever the same.
I understand you..
joan


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## Marina Pearson (Sep 15, 2012)

No! You are not alone. I find that once I figure out the pattern, following it is easy. I hope this makes sense. Sometime back, I was given a shawl pattern by a friend. She assured me it was easy and that I would have it done in one evening. It took me several days to figure out the instructions. Once I did, figure out the instructions, the shawl went fast. When I gave the pattern to another friend, I had the audacity to tell her it was real easy. Taking your time to read the pattern, taking careful note of every single punctuation mark, does make it easier. But, to reiterate, you are not alone. Just hang in there. The patterns get easier to read.


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## Milda (May 19, 2012)

Totally agree! I am also university-educated and have quite often had to read knitting instructions several times.


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## kimmyz (May 9, 2011)

I have to say that most of the patterns I've used were pretty well written. I do find the occasional mistake, but after knitting for decades, I'm able to correct or work around it. It's usually pretty obvious to me when there's a mistake. And I do make notes on my Ravelry page so that others will know what to do when they try the same pattern. I don't find any more mistakes in free patterns than in those I pay for, though the latter usually offer more sizes or explanations. I think that most patterns assume that people know the basics, and that can be hard for beginners. Charts are a little more difficult for me to read (take more time), but sometimes charts are the best way to show something succinctly. I do prefer patterns that combine words with charts rather than JUST charts. There are some foreign web sites that have beautiful patterns written ONLY in chart form. I always find those to be more confusing.

If you're having trouble with certain stitches, YOUTUBE has videos of most stitches and techniques. However, I'm presently working on a pattern with a stitch I'd never done, and couldn't find any YOUTUBE video on how to do it. I put in a lifeline and after a couple of tries, I figured it out with the help of closeup photos/details in the pattern. I think you just have to be patient and experiment with new techniques.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

Jenise D said:


> When I was learning to knit 35 years ago, my wonderful MIL gave this advice, read one stitch at a time, or read between the commas, do the stitches, then continue. She also advised that if you are confused, have someone read the pattern as you are doing the stitches until you understand it. That advice has saved me soooooo many times!!!!


That's how I was taught, too, one step at a time. Sometimes reading the whole pattern is too confusing. Some steps don't seem to fit in, until you get there.


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## missjg (Nov 18, 2012)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


Some assume you know what 'they' are doing.. or difference in languages or termonlogys... or brain gets stuck in a rut... I've had that happen that I would keep reading something 'wrong'.. even tho it was 'clear'... had to put away and go back later and bingo.. oh now why was that so hard? ha.. Sometimes you just need a break.. eyes get tired and things don't always read as they are writting. 
:-D :-D


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## Juneh (Mar 15, 2011)

I hear you and agree! Also when I see charts it's all over for me and another poject I loved hits the dust.


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## island stasher (Dec 23, 2012)

Yes - either they are using different abbreviations, or I just can't make sense of the stitches. Happens to every knitter, even experts at some time or another.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

greatgrannytidy said:


> I just look at the abreviations on the crochet pattern. soon as I see sc = single crochet I know it´s US terms. UK do not have a single crochet. problem solved for me.


You threw for a minute- but a UK sc is a US slip stitch. I actually sat down with a crochet hook and did them, and then decided that a google search might work as well.


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm doing my happy dance - I've been searching about 4 to 5 months for my copy of a knitting book that I made my first sweater out of at age 12 - even posted on this forum's classified today when I'd just given up - and then decided to do a couple of more searches and found it!! After putting the word 'vintage' in the search block and going through a few sites, there it was: Bernat Classics for Women from 1961. Yea!! I keep telling myself it had to be the easiest instruction book in the world for me to make it at that age with only 2 short lessons from Mom's friend.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Ann745 said:


> My pet peeve is when a pattern does not specify that it only comes in chart form. Or parts of it are written in c hart form or that it is written for using magic loop only! I think the artist selling patterns should present them in different formats. That way the buyers are all happy !


But far too time consuming- especially if they are giving it away.
Many people can only do magic loop and so get frustrated when faced with a pattern that is writen for dpns. This is where buying online can be a problem as if see the pattern can tell.
Maybe what is needed for online patterns rather than writing each one in a dozen different ways is to give a small description so can tell whether circular (dpns or magic loop), charts and/or written etc.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

homesweethome said:


> I think that with the price of patterns increasing as much as they have that the designers should make the patterns as simple to understand as possible. It's ridiculous to pay $7.99 or more for a pattern and not understand it because they are trying to "save space".


And we've just had someone saying that patterns could be written in 2 pages instead of 12. What a reflection of showing how hard it for pattern writers to get it right! Whatever they do will not suit everyone.
Personally I'm in the don't make it too big group. I have found myself not finishing a project becuase it spells out everything almost sttich by sttich. And if I had a pattern with a couple of hundred of stitches and it was all spelt out I would not do it. If the pattern has a repeat I want to know it is a repeat so I can simply keep repeating these stitches instead of reading every stitch in case they have made a slight change somewhere.
And I can't imagine all the knitting time I would lose by rewriting every pattern I do. Don't think i would ever find time to knit . Would have to give up knitting or KPing.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Penshu said:


> I feel the same way at times. Especially with charts. Have no idea how to follow one. Does anyone have a suggestion for a starter chart patter
> N?


Go to my link under here. There is a workshop Preparation workshop for learning lace and this includes learning charts. The first info on reading charts is on page one but there is other stuff there as well so you will need to look through but it is clearly marked so you can find what you are looking for- well on page 1 it is , but I haven't gone any further.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

ElyseKnox said:


> Eggplantlady,
> You just nailed one of my very biggest complaints. My reaction when I see the infamous "decrease/increase while staying in pattern" is that it is either laziness or a shortcut on the part of the pattern writer.


But think how huge the pattern would be if they wrote every line of every size! And if they only did one size so it was a mnageable size people would complain becuase it wasn't in their size.


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## franzhere (Apr 25, 2011)

With you 100%. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

I seem to be spending a lot of time satding up for the pattern writers- I am not a designer and the only patterns I have written where for the workshops I have done here. And they had mistakes in simple patterns. Let me tell it it was hard work. And how much harder if what you have done was harder, or had different sizes. 
The problem is that it is impossible to write a pattern that makes sense to everyone. At least in the past they were all written the asme so you either learnt ot read a pattern or you didn't. And with no consistency it makes learning tto read patterns hard. But it does mean that some patterns can be understood by some knitters and others by different knitters.
As for writing to suit everyone- the desingers and pattern writers are like us and have there own abilities. I think being to design something from scrtch is an amazing enough skill. And so many after spending hours and hours working on it then offer it for free. And writing it out for publication- even free online- takes a lot more effort than writing it out so you understand it to redo it one day.


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

For those with lots of experience, short is great. For the rest of us - we need a better explanation. Maybe two versions - one for experienced knitters and one for newbies. I've read some patterns with instructions to work to the end of the row in knit and then work the next 4 stitches and then the stitches to use are given. Tossed that - where did those 4 stitches come from? Oh and it's not a matter of how well educated you are (I'm not a genius but did take care of manpower and budgeting for a 300-person organization plus input budget packages to Congress) - it depends on your knitting experience and sometimes your ability to read the pattern writer's mind. The writers are so good at knitting that they forget some of us just don't have their experience.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Dusti said:


> If the pattern is driving you nuts, bad pattern, period. And I have been driven up a wall many times because of all the bad patterns out there.


Bad pattern for YOU- but it may not be a bad pattern for someone else.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

mlsolcz said:


> A pattern writing course should be mandatory for all designers.


And who would then post free patterns?


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## shabychic (Feb 8, 2013)

you are not alone I find more and more patterns like that have to have a collage degree to understand what they are trying to tell us


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## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

You know, I've been having a *discussion* the last few days with some knitters here about vintage (and we're talking truly vintage--late 19th and early 20th century patterns, not the 1960's) patterns and why the directions aren't written in modern knitting notation. We forget that what is "au courant" knitting language changes from generation to generation, and it's up to us to keep current if we can. Today's current language is charts. Yesterday's was non-standard abbreviations. In the 19th century it was "I know that you know what to do without writing it down, so do it, because your mother and grandmother made you memorize it."

So many of us want *free* patterns we can get off the 'net that may or may not have been test knit and may or may not have been corrected, or are unwilling to pay the cost of producing patterns with multiple pages, and that's what fully written patterns would be, that designers and publishers aren't willing, necessarily, to incur the costs. And that still won't keep errors from creeping in due to the number of people handling the pattern from designer to final printed pattern. Would many of us really be willing to pay $10 to $15 for a 20 page pattern in fully written form? From what I've seen here, probably not, but that's what it would take. Have I paid this much for patterns? Yes, I have, and many have included both written and charted instructions. 

I know charts are a pain in the butt, I resisted learning them myself until I had a Brittish pattern with three different lace patterns that were fully written out, just not integrated into a single line. You had to know where you were in each pattern and go back and forth from page to page and column to column to work across a row, and each of them had different numbers of row repeats to confuse things further. I finally took some pattern software and charted them out which taught me to read patterns. Was it easy? No. Was it a long time ago? Not really, less than 10 years ago. Would I go back to fully written patterns? Only if I had to. But would I make someone else read charts if they didn't want to? No, to each their own.

Knitting has never had standardized abbreviations and different designers even use different terms--yarn round needle, yarn forward, and yarn over are different terms for a lace opening stitch--from country to country. We either learn to interpret these correctly by dint of experiment or asking other knitters (one of the reasons this forum exists) for help, otherwise we'd still all be knitting garter stitch scarves. Plus standardization would take all the flavor out of our knitting. Think about it, learning constantly is what keeps many of us going once we hit those *senior* years (now THAT'S the thing I'd like defined--when do I become a senior? 60? 62? 65? 67? Older?) and we need to keep our brains functional.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

jmf6406 said:


> I sometimes have to search the web to see what the heck some abbreviation means. As far as charts go, I cheat and write the directions down for each row. Although I must say the chart does help one see where the pattern is going.


All patterns (or pattern books) should have abbrev iations- and if it doesn't then it is definitely a poorly written pattern. But sometimes they are hidden and 'simply' very hard to find. Which is of course poorly written.

Books usually have a list of abbreviations near the front of the back- and then sometimes have extra abbreviations in the pattern if it is a one off for that patttern only. Ideally a single pattern should have it at the beginning. some online patterns have a link to their common abbreviations- well and good if you are near a computer but a problem if you are not.


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## JeanBlain (Mar 21, 2013)

Once in awhile you will come across directions you don't understand. What I did one time when I didn't understand what they were talking about was to write a letter to the publishers of the crochet book I was using and explained that I did not understand something. They promptly wrote back explaining in more detail and even sent a swatch to show me what they meant. It was a really big help. You might consider that sometime. i know it is frustrating.


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## darowil (Apr 17, 2011)

Gmajan said:


> Reading these comments, have given me the courage to ask my question about the Romantic Ruffle Scarf pattern. For the needle, it says: Needles. Size 5 or 6, 32" to 40" long depending on your gauge.
> Is the 32" to 40" long referring to the needle length (that's how it reads) , or is it referring to the finished scarf length ? I'm not aware of a needle that long, even in a circular !! Confused by the way it's stated . Thanks


It will be a circular needle- TOTAL length (including the needle tips) 32" to 40". And yes they certainly come that long (in fact even longer).


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## Begin2Knit (Nov 7, 2012)

The "modern"Knitting & Crochet Patterns all seem to present the same problems to most of us :roll: 
Your MIL gave very good advice = "read one stitch at a time, or read between the commas, do the stitches, then continue." :thumbup: 
Unfortunately this method only seems to work with Patterns that were written in the 1960's, maybe even earlier!  
I am MOST fortunate in that I have held onto the few Knitting Patterns my late Grandmother gave me in the 1980's! :lol: 
These have provided limited, but usable resources for both my eldest daughter & myself since then & still now!  
Charts, unfortunately, are a lost cause, life is too short to undertake such battles!  
I agree that one has to be able to actually check Pattern Books before buying them; so that you can see if you would be able to make use of it at all!


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## SawshaK (May 16, 2011)

I'm so glad I'm not alone


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## Ginialea (Nov 9, 2012)

Waif said:


> I SO understand! Sometimes I feel like a complete numpty trying to follow instructions!


I don't know what a "numpty" is but it sounds like I feel when I'm reading a new pattern. Hang in there! There is help and this is the place to find it. Good Luck.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

I think your complaint applies to almost all of us. It seems each writer has their own language instead of using standard abbreviations. What I find really ridiculous is when the abbreviation is longer than it would have been to write it out. Also, I am finding "knit the next row as stitches appear" more and more. With these types of patterns I write them out myself as I do with charts. Or I should say I type them out on the computer (in bold) and print it out. That way there are no perplexing surprises in the middle of a project.


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## BlueTressym (Nov 23, 2012)

Waif said:


> I SO understand! Sometimes I feel like a complete numpty trying to follow instructions!


Me too!


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## AmyClaire (Jun 3, 2011)

Some things are difficult to describe but easy to follow if you watch someone else do them. We are so lucky to live in the age of Youtube.


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## zookeeper1 (Feb 26, 2013)

I find myself writing out charts into words so that I can better understand them and knt without having to frog.
I spend almost as much time reading patterns then kniting them. Some patterns have been regulated to the round file cabinet they are so frustrating. Go glad to know that I am not the only one.


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## candylanecabin (Jan 26, 2013)

AmyClaire said:


> Some things are difficult to describe but easy to follow if you watch someone else do them. We are so lucky to live in the age of Youtube.


I feel like I'm in good company here! I've learned so much from KP & realized what a help YouTube is. Some times the words of a pattern just don't make sense to this old brain, but as AmyClaire shared, seeing it done in person or on video is wonderful.


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## greanise (Dec 28, 2012)

cathy47 said:


> Do you think they read their own patterns after writing them? And then do they work the pattern to make sure its correct? Sometime I think not.


I have recently started to design and write up my own patterns. As I design and work the prototype, I write down every row, stitch etc as I work it, once finished and I am happy with it, I put it away for a few days whilst I go onto the next one. After this 'break' so I can be sure I am not just knitting/crocheting from memory, I re-knit the design following the pattern. This is where I can then make adjustments to my instructions if not clear etc, After this I get a friend who is not an expert but competent, to follow the pattern. After comparing any notes, the pattern goes through it's final draft and I knit it again for the pictures that accompany the pattern. All this is time consuming and not cheap, which is why I think the £3-£4 I charge for my patterns is reasonable.
Have had a couple of KPers buy a pattern from me and would love some feedback from them if they are around to let me know if my style of writing has any flaws...happy to learn!
Do agree about many other patterns though (not all), always a bit disappointed with Drops/Garn Studios, they feature some lovely things for free but I really don't like the pattern format.
As for charts..never use them myself so don't include them in my patterns as I can't be sure they would be accurate...but maybe something I should study..(if only we has 60 hr days..lol)


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Gmajan said:


> Reading these comments, have given me the courage to ask my question about the Romantic Ruffle Scarf pattern. For the needle, it says: Needles. Size 5 or 6, 32" to 40" long depending on your gauge.
> Is the 32" to 40" long referring to the needle length (that's how it reads) , or is it referring to the finished scarf length ? I'm not aware of a needle that long, even in a circular !! Confused by the way it's stated . Thanks


I would imagine a scarf 32 or 40 inches long to rather short for an adult.


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## Briallu (Dec 4, 2012)

I find if there is a knitted pattern I do not understand I read the pattern out loud to myself and I can then understand it.It is the crochet patterns I have trouble with, too many abbreviations.


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## rlmayknit (Mar 14, 2011)

I agree. I have trouble reading crochet patterns. I do not know if it is because, I taught myself to crochet. I can read knit patterns, but some I do have trouble with. I rely on videos and KP to help me, when I am stuck. rlmayknit


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## Helga82 (Apr 13, 2011)

Hi to us OLD knitters - if the pattern-writer couldn't
confuse you with their patterns - you probably would not
NEED to buy one. We used to just take measurements,
picked stitches we liked, the yearn we liked, made a sample
and started our project. And in those days you washed any-
thing handworked BY HAND and layed or hung it to dry. Yes
I have problems with todays pattern too - Helga82


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

You are not alone! I can't understand any patterns. It drives me crazy. I have to go down to the "Knit Shop" for the nice girls to interpret them for me. :roll:


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

Gmajan said:


> Reading these comments, have given me the courage to ask my question about the Romantic Ruffle Scarf pattern. For the needle, it says: Needles. Size 5 or 6, 32" to 40" long depending on your gauge.
> Is the 32" to 40" long referring to the needle length (that's how it reads) , or is it referring to the finished scarf length ? I'm not aware of a needle that long, even in a circular !! Confused by the way it's stated . Thanks


Yes, circular needles do come quite long. Sometimes you can find them at big box craft stores, but they're always online.


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## Dish Cloth Diva (Mar 31, 2012)

That is why I stick to rectangles and squares...just saying....


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## greanise (Dec 28, 2012)

Margy said:


> That is why I stick to rectangles and squares...just saying....


 Hope you don't mind me asking but I see 'just saying' written a lot by the US ladies, what exactly does that mean?...is it the same as we say in the UK, 'No offence, but....' which usually means the person you are talking to IS probably going to be offended..lol


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## Dish Cloth Diva (Mar 31, 2012)

It's like giving my opinion.....I don't know where I picked up..just sayin...lol...


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## snoopylover (Nov 13, 2011)

I've been knitting for 75 years and have bought 2 patterns recently from knit picks, I can't understand either one and have had several corrections sent to me already! I know I won't be buying anymore from them!


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## snoopylover (Nov 13, 2011)

I've been knitting for 75 years and have bought 2 patterns recently from knit picks, I can't understand either one and have had several corrections sent to me already! I know I won't be buying anymore from them!


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## snoopylover (Nov 13, 2011)

I've been knitting for 75 years and have bought 2 patterns recently from knit picks, I can't understand either one and have had several corrections sent to me already! I know I won't be buying anymore from them!


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## Ulli (Mar 3, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?
> 
> There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.
> 
> Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

I understand about the problem we have with trying to read a pattern as i have dyslexia and I try yesterday to read my very first pattern witch is a double knit baby round neck cardigan and I read and read it and it said all these different letters like st st which I think is k1 row and then p1 row and there were stockenette stitch which I don't no --- slip stitch was another which I don't no----
m1 and I no it means make another stitch but how do I do that------- can you tell me what rib stitch is--------and also how do I make the band to put the cardigan together so if anyone can help with these things I would love it as I have not much confidence in myself and I would love to achieve this cardigan for my nieces baby so I hope someone out there can help me conker this

thankyou for bringing this up as I thought I were on my own as well

angela



kaixixang said:


> I prefer the UK-like WRITTEN patterns...but with dyslexia...the chart is easier for all other types.
> 
> I can translate/write from one to the other...thanks to the symbol file(s) I've researched.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

when I read patterns again and again I get so muddled up by the time I get to the end and I just read my first ever pattern to make a baby cardigan for my niece and by the time I tried to finish reading it I was worse off than when I started and I asked in an earlier message about the different st and p1 which I don't no as I can only do plain knitting and purl at present as Im still learning and in the baby cardigan pattern it said moss stitch and I have not got a clue so if you can help I will be ever so grateful.

angela



elaineadams said:


> hehehehehehehe...I knew it wasn't just me....I got so fed up of ripping that I now look at the abbreviations, and the pattern, and very often re-write it before I actually start to knit it. I always do a swatch as well. And just for information, I have just re-written a Vogue pattern that I paid for, that actually had the stitch count wrong...it was short of 8 stitches or had 6 too many stitches...I added the 8 stitches for the end of the rows to work out right and remain in pattern, rather than lose 6 stitches....right enough its only a cabled bag but it does matter.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

purpleone,

Before I try to do some link research on the different sections...what is the name of the pattern (hopefully free so I can look it up)?

I don't mind providing links to read/look at steps...but I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

I can agree with you as im in my 40s and I have dyslexia and Im glad im not on my own as I find it better when I see things written down and pictures also so I can see how things are surpose to look as I learn better by seeing things better than just reading patterns and I no im not on my own now I feel a bit better and it will give me the push to try again and have a go at the babies cardigan im going to try to make for my nieces baby.

angela



Ronie said:


> I was in my late 40's when I learned that the trouble I was having was dyslexia.. Is good to hear I'm not the only one that has struggled.. it opened up my world to know it was a condition and not me... I just try harder... its a struggle with most things and the results are amazing when I get it right... some things are literally like standing on my head to do them right but I practice and eventually do get them right.. I have had 56 years to perfect this brain to think AROUND the box not just outside it...
> I agree that standard symbols are wonderful and something most all can learn from.. but not all chart makers use them so that's where those issues come in.. I would say that all I have seen do have a legend that shows us what the symbols mean and that they can be figured out... the chart reading class uses colors to signify(along with symbols) the different stitches and that helps tremendously


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Briallu (Dec 4, 2012)

What part of Wales are you from?If near to where I live I could help you.


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

it does get frustrating as im new at knitting and it were my first time to read a pattern which were a bay cardigan for my nieces baby and im making it in a lovely pale mint colour and a white one but I cant understand the pattern as its an easy pattern which I were told but I will have to read it a few time as I have dyslexia and I will right it down as im trying to make it but if you can help at all how do I do a moss stitch and can you explain to me what the pattern means when they say k on the rs of the knitting and how do I no this.

I have taken up knitting since last October as my mum and sister both died of brain tumors and I kept myself busy knitting beani hats and scarfs but I want to try something new like a baby cardigan.

by the way I just have to coment on your wonderful flowers as purple is my favourite colours.

angela



unie said:


> Well! the flowers corrects everything !!
> :thumbup:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## BTRFLY (Mar 2, 2011)

You are not alone! Selfishly, it makes me feel better that I am not alone. I have a couple of patterns that I just gave up on because I couldn't do it. I agree. Sometimes the writer gets so wordy, it makes it confusing. Thanks for bringing this up, it makes me feel so much better.


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

thanks for saying that you would help me and the cardigan is a teddy one and I want to make the round neck cardigan for my nieces baby in mint green and another one in white as a present for her. the number is 7104 I hope I gave you the right information and I hope you can help me as im new at this and I want to achieve this.

angela



kaixixang said:


> purpleone,
> 
> Before I try to do some link research on the different sections...what is the name of the pattern (hopefully free so I can look it up)?
> 
> I don't mind providing links to read/look at steps...but I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

thankyou for saying that you would help me and if you pm me I will give you my address and email address.

angela



Briallu said:


> What part of Wales are you from?If near to where I live I could help you.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## rkr (Aug 15, 2012)

I'm from the 'old school' of knitting myself, learned it 65 years ago at 4 - 5 yo.

I write my own patts now and usually work on-the-fly as I knit the project, to the measurements of the person I'm knitting for, though I did take some professional accreditation classes 30+ years ago.

I don't like charts either and will write out the sticky bits in text alongside the chart rows before beginning to knit. Agreed that there are a few mistakes and erratas can usually can be located or asked for and received. 

But addressing the indolence or laziness of designers; charting is actually more difficult, from the designer point-of-view because they must think of the pattern in common terms first and then 'translate' those to fit into a grid system. 
It's the fact that a grid is not flexible to fit the curving lines of decreases and increases but laid out in straight mathematical gridlines which can cause designers to err when transferring their curving creations to an unforgiving chart: Blacking out certain sections which actually do exist can fool the eyeone of our Public TV stations hosts a program called Brain Games which explained this very phenomenon. 
Curved lines which must be translated on a square grid are much like tromp l'oiel (sp?) - 'Fool the eye'. It's not really there but you see the extra spaces anyway so your brain is thrown out of whack and can interpret the 'math' incorrectly. A misplaced symbol can throw off a whole patt.

Agree w/Jessica Jean - Learning is Living. Isn't that why we bought their design in the first place, because we couldn't create that particular combination of sts into a design and do the math to create the whole design in our sizes? 
If not, then it was more Advanced in knitting than we are able to do and so we should approach it as a Learning device and learn from it, even if it means reading the chart symbols and match them line-by-line, writing the patt out in text before beginning to knit. 
No, I don't think that's the designer's job, if they happen to be more advanced than I am. That's progress and it's my job to keep up with the current styles of technology, which is what pattern design is nowadays. And aren't we partaking in current technology just by contacting each other and knitting resources online, instead of going to our LYS for our patts and yarns and tools, which is why many of them no longer exist? 
But that's a whole other topic... lol
Bobbie R
When I responded to JessicaJean's post, I had no idea that there were already more than a dozen pages online.. I just went backwards through several and found 'mousepotato's post to be the perfect one: THX for it!


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## yarnstars (Feb 26, 2011)

I was starting a sweater by a well know designer, I started the first row, and then the second row, and then the third row. It was not even close to the picture on the pattern. But someone on ravelry showed me that the pattern was correct, but the picture was wrong. I should have known.


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## cynthiaknits (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey don't feel alone. I've knit and crochet for almost 50 years, and there are still patterns that throw me. One in particular was for 
Queen Anne's Lace--I bet I tried it 10 times, before I got it right. And yes it was HOW it was explained/written. I almost gave up.


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## ltyler65 (Aug 14, 2012)

Amen!!


Jessica-Jean said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?
> 
> There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.
> 
> Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


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## Joanne Hyde (Jul 8, 2011)

You gave me a good laugh as I was a Nsg Instructor too. I said the same thing to a TV repair woman who was getting annoyed with my stupidity fixing the TV. I asked her if she could fix a MS pump and told her I could.
I do think when people become more knowledgable in any field they forget and sometimes confuse things. Love simple patterns that look nice.
YOU tube is quite helpful and at my level.


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## donmaur (Mar 4, 2012)

not only are they poorly written but they contain many mistakes as well


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## mousepotato (May 30, 2011)

rkr said:


> I'm from the 'old school' of knitting myself, learned it 65 years ago at 4 - 5 yo.
> 
> I write my own patts now and usually work on-the-fly as I knit the project, to the measurements of the person I'm knitting for, though I did take some professional accreditation classes 30+ years ago.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## Sharon C (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm 66 yrs old. My aunt taught me when I was 8 to knit. It was just knit and purl. But I taught myself to read the instructions and then go to the how to make that stitch chart. I learned new stitches. By the time I got in high school I was having trouble comprehending things. It was in the mid 80's I learned I was dyslexic. I had to teach myself to learn things my way. I now copy and paste many patterns. Make a chart from the table section of the word program and then type everything row by row. Evan the ones that say repeat row 2 etc. I type in what row 2 is. I proof it so many times I can recite it in my sleep. But I also have little boxes to cross out each row when finished. I also need to double space many patterns so I don't read one stitch from the row above. I caught myself reading a pattern the other day and what a duh moment it was. I was reading st as street. Had to shake my head and laugh. The lady that wrote Leisure Arts crochet books was told by her boss to write patterns. She didn't know how to crochet. Finally she had an Aunt that got it across to her. But many Leisure arts patterns have mistakes in them. More than some other company books. There is an Encyclopedia book of crochet that has a picture how to crochet, written instructions on how to do the stitch and then a chart. I find charts confusing. But then again I have never tried to read one with great effort. Just ignore them. For those that can read charts there are that many that can't.


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## NANADITUTTI (Mar 20, 2013)

Chrochet directions are like trying to read Chinese for me . that's why I stick to knitting!


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

No one is perfect, especially me! If I am writing out a pattern I will read it to hubby to see if I over thought it. No, he does not know how to knit but he does a lot of wood work. There are some projects that look lovely but when I start reading them I have no idea what they are talking about! Oh well, didn't want to knit it anyway!


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## modinegunch (Jul 9, 2011)

Who's brainstorm was it to do this chart stuff. Looks like Egyptian hieroglyphics!!!!


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

modinegunch said:


> Who's brainstorm was it to do this chart stuff. Looks like Egyptian hieroglyphics!!!!


A lot of those posting here really like charts - and I may eventually but right now I'm trying to learn new stitches, there are too many other things for me to concentrate on to try to go back and forth between a key guide and the chart to even try it. When I find a pattern that only has a chart - I don't even look any further. I have a lace book that is only charted. I may not live long enough to ever make anything out of it at the rate I'm going! LOL


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## linny anne (Feb 23, 2013)

Hubby says its a primitive form of programming!!!


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

081408 said:


> Hubby says its a primitive form of programming!!!


I was thinking of cave drawings.......LOL


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## kacey64 (Mar 23, 2011)

Charts are a joy to work from once you catch onto them. So much easier not only to understand, but also to keep your place in!


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## linny anne (Feb 23, 2013)

Way nicer image!


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

I have just been reading your post and may I say its nice to no im not alone as I have dyslexia and may I just say that when you say what you do when reading patterns like righting things down may I say its sounds like a great idea so im going to try it today and may I say im going to use an A4 writing pad to right everything down row by row just the way you say to do it and may I say that its sounds fantastic idea and may I say when I read anything I put a ruler on the line that im reading so I no where I am so may I say a big thanks for that great tip of yours.
do you no what these stictches are st st, m1, yo, stockenette st as im going to be trying to make a babys cardigan for my nieces baby and its the first time I have tried to read a pattern.

thanks for the ideas

angela



Sharon C said:


> I'm 66 yrs old. My aunt taught me when I was 8 to knit. It was just knit and purl. But I taught myself to read the instructions and then go to the how to make that stitch chart. I learned new stitches. By the time I got in high school I was having trouble comprehending things. It was in the mid 80's I learned I was dyslexic. I had to teach myself to learn things my way. I now copy and paste many patterns. Make a chart from the table section of the word program and then type everything row by row. Evan the ones that say repeat row 2 etc. I type in what row 2 is. I proof it so many times I can recite it in my sleep. But I also have little boxes to cross out each row when finished. I also need to double space many patterns so I don't read one stitch from the row above. I caught myself reading a pattern the other day and what a duh moment it was. I was reading st as street. Had to shake my head and laugh. The lady that wrote Leisure Arts crochet books was told by her boss to write patterns. She didn't know how to crochet. Finally she had an Aunt that got it across to her. But many Leisure arts patterns have mistakes in them. More than some other company books. There is an Encyclopedia book of crochet that has a picture how to crochet, written instructions on how to do the stitch and then a chart. I find charts confusing. But then again I have never tried to read one with great effort. Just ignore them. For those that can read charts there are that many that can't.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## soneka (Feb 8, 2011)

I certainly feel the same way (lost) when trying to figure out crochet patterns. I know some of the stitches and have a couple "how to" books, but can't seem to interpret the instructions! If I am stuck on a knitting pattern, I set it down for a day or two and can usually figure it out on the second reading.


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## kaixixang (Jul 16, 2012)

I started out crocheting with a granny square..with a large aluminum crochet hook.

Now I have steel crochet hooks sized as small as 14 from Boye/Wright and the two Lacis 15 and 16...and have worn off the finish from the label wide area with quite a few of the sizes from use. I also have the aluminum larger hooks...but I'm addicted to producing Pineapple patterns and lace...and pushing the limit to how many sizes I can go down to has been an adventure.

For Crochet charts I learned from the Magic Crochet and Decorative Crochet magazines.


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## purpleone (Oct 1, 2012)

may I say I agree with you as I have dyslexia also but I try to get around it and sometimes it works but not at the moment with patterns for baby round neck cardigans which I were going to be making first.

by the way the purple flowers are wonderful and its my favourite colour ever.

angela



unie said:


> Joanie, I , too have had that problem, but most of the time if I can study the pattern, I'll see that I can work it out. If not, I will look up definitions of the part that I don't understand or rely on KP knitters to help me.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## beckypatt (Mar 12, 2013)

I feel your pain, I am stuck right now on a crochet pattern that I need help understanding. Becky


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

I have days that I call Brain Freeze days where no matter how many times I read a pattern it seems its written in an unknown language. Those are times where picture insturctions make more sense.


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## gmarie (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh yes! Sometimes I see an item that I want to make, get or buy the pattern, then I can't figure it out. Very frustrating.


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## Emmyg (May 20, 2014)

joan4115 said:


> I am probably by myself on this, but I feel so dumb trying to interpret patterns for crochet or knitting. I am not an uneducated person, but some of these instructions are so convoluted and confusing. Why can't the people who write patterns make them more user friendly. I was a nursing instructor for many years. If I had told a nursing student how to give an injection or insert a foley catheter using the format of most of these instructions they would never be able to do any nursing skills. Sorry for ventilating, but I am so frustrated right now with a pattern that I had to speak my mind. Anyone else like me out there or am I truly alone in this? LOL!!
> 
> Hugs, Joanie


I stay confused! Even the most simple patterns usually have a row that throws me for a loop. I have only been knitting for a year, so I thought the longer I study patterns, the better I will get at it. Now I am worried.

:? :lol:


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## Jalsh (Aug 6, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here. Why is it SAD? My unpaid job often appears to be working up bits (or even the whole!) patterns that other KPers are having trouble doing. Is _that_ 'sad'?
> 
> There are schools for authors of fiction or non-fiction. I've never yet heard of a school - or even a class - to teach the 'correct' way of writing a pattern.
> 
> Of course, charts eliminate the need for 99% of the text. There _is_ a learning curve to using them, but ... as long as you're learning, you're living!


Actually, Craftsy has a pattern writing class. I have no idea how good it is, but it's there.


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## shabychic (Feb 8, 2013)

The way they are written today.......Yes!


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