# What is vegan friendly yarn?



## judymiss (Jun 26, 2011)

Was looking at Etsy headbands and found some with the fiber content of "vegan friendly yarn". What is vegan friendly yarn?


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## azmoonbugs (Dec 2, 2011)

judymiss said:


> Was looking at Etsy headbands and found some with the fiber content of "vegan friendly yarn". What is vegan friendly yarn?


Yarn with no animal content.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Our marketing friends must have been smoking smelly socks when they came up with that one - can't they just tell us what the fibre is I.e. bamboo, flax etc!!


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## WestLAmum (Apr 17, 2011)

My daughter is vegan and i have done searches for vegan yarn, just so I don't have to read through endless ingredient lists only to find there is 5%silk or wool, making it none vegan.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

azmoonbugs said:


> Yarn with no animal content.


Okay, then cotton and linen would be positive to use, but other yarns with no animal content which are petroleum based would not be ecologically good. And when you think of wool and angora, the animals have to be shorn periodically for their comfort, the way we get haircuts.


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't see why wool would not be vegan friendly. It comes from animals who are well taken care of, and who would suffer great discomfort if they were not shorn. The coat grows very heavy and pulls at their skin, and skin conditions can also develop.

If the ethical point of being a vegan is because you care about the animals, why would wool be wrong?


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## judymiss (Jun 26, 2011)

I also wish they would spell out the yarn content. I found that "vegan friendly yarn" can be 
bamboo 
hemp 
linen 
corn 
soy 
tencel 
viscose 
cotton (just organic ??)
banana silk (made enitrely from banana fibers)
aloo (nettle plant). 

What about acrylic?


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## inamood (Feb 19, 2015)

When I did my first craft show a person came up asking if my hats were vegan friendly - she said no animal by products. So for her acrylic was her friend. She did buy an apple hat in a red heart soft acrylic.


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

judymiss said:


> Was looking at Etsy headbands and found some with the fiber content of "vegan friendly yarn". What is vegan friendly yarn?


What a stressful life it must be to be vegan if you have to worry about whether yarn is vegan or not.

Most animals are shorn for their fleece, and those you know are not, avoid buy/using them.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

inamood said:


> When I did my first craft show a person came up asking if my hats were vegan friendly - she said no animal by products. So for her acrylic was her friend. She did buy an apple hat in a red heart soft acrylic.


What was she wearing on her feet? Shoes made of plastic that would make her feet smelly? Wooden clogs that would surely be uncomfortable? Shoes made from man made materials that would also lead to smelly feet? Those sneakers that the teenager wear that look shabby very quickly? Or perhaps she was going barefooted in all the dirt and dust, including stepping on the spot where someone just spat a wad of chewing baccy.


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## WestLAmum (Apr 17, 2011)

My daughter and I have been round and round about using wool. My stance is that the sheep is happier for being shorn. It's one stressful day a year when the wool is cut, then back to a nice life for 364 days. My vegan daughter disagrees, saying that it supports factory farming and is against her beliefs. Whatever. She is entitled to her views, and I am entitled to knit nice wooly things for other people and save the acrylic and plant fibers for her.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

WestLAmum said:


> My daughter and I have been round and round about using wool. My stance is that the sheep is happier for being shorn. It's one stressful day a year when the wool is cut, then back to a nice life for 364 days. My vegan daughter disagrees, saying that it supports factory farming and is against her beliefs. Whatever. She is entitled to her views, and I am entitled to knit nice wooly things for other people and save the acrylic and plant fibers for her.


I knit with my homespun wool and I find there is nothing nicer to use and wear. Wool absorbs a lot of moisture which man made fibres just do not do. I love the feel and the smell of wool, I love sheep and have had my own small flock to raise and sell. Sheep farming in Australia is definitely not 'factory farming' considering the size of the sheep stations. Poultry raised in cages would be 'factory farming', but when the sheep have up to a couple of thousand hectares to wander over you could not call that 'factory farming'.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Gracious!!!! I'm sure when you posted 'what is vegan friendly yarn'' , you didn't anticipate all these fascinating comments. I have to admit that I haven't ever seen a vegan friendly label.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Acrylic is a petroleum by-product. 
Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants. 
Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.

To my way of thinking, unless you grow, harvest, spin, and hand-weave/knit your own cotton/linen/bamboo to clothe yourself, there isn't such a thing as 'vegan' fibre.

Along the same lines, unless you grow your own food, none of it is purely 'vegan', since transporting it from the fields to your dish surely used more petroleum products. That was what drove my neighbour's ex-husband to move from the city to a farm, where he grew all his own food.


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

I bit off track, but this past week I was shopping for jacket. I came across a leather-looking coat with a tag that said it was "vegan leather." ????? What the heck is that??? further digging thru the coat lining I found it was 100% polyester!!!


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## farmkiti (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah, "vegan leather" is the newest way to say FAKE leather or vinyl. They think they can charge more if it's "vegan leather." No such animal.

I was recently on a website where a vegan said it was bad to give dogs raw bones because "cows have just as much of a right to be here as we do." !*&%#@!!! What?!!! Dogs come from wolves who are definitely carnivores. I tell you what, she got all kinds of negative feedback! Like "whaddya wanna do, give a wolf veggies???" I know this is slightly off-topic, but just showing how serious/manic/crazy some people are about this topic. I do respect vegans if they don't try to impose their beliefs on me. I'm an omnivore.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> I bit off track, but this past week I was shopping for jacket. I came across a leather-looking coat with a tag that said it was "vegan leather." ????? What the heck is that??? further digging thru the coat lining I found it was 100% polyester!!!


And polyester is another petroleum product, so how is it vegan?


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

farmkiti said:


> Yeah, "vegan leather" is the newest way to say FAKE leather or vinyl. They think they can charge more if it's "vegan leather." No such animal.
> 
> I was recently on a website where a vegan said it was bad to give dogs raw bones because "cows have just as much of a right to be here as we do." !*&%#@!!! What?!!! Dogs come from wolves who are definitely carnivores. I tell you what, she got all kinds of negative feedback! Like "whaddya wanna do, give a wolf veggies???" I know this is slightly off-topic, but just showing how serious/manic/crazy some people are about this topic. I do respect vegans if they don't try to impose their beliefs on me. I'm an omnivore.


I read an article recently about a vegan who had a dog and took it to a vet, half-dead and she couldn't figure out why. It turned out to be because the owner refused to feed it any meat products.

The person left the poor animal with the vet rather than feed it properly.

In my opinion, that really defeats the whole philosophy of being a vegan, harming an animal to avoid causing harm to animals.

I can understand not knitting with bombyx silk, because the silk worms are stifled to get the silk off intact. That makes sense.

But if you spin and knit tussah silk, it's made from cocoons that have already been abandoned. What a waste!

And most fiber animals have to be shorn for their own health, so you're not harming them by knitting with wool, etc. You're just using something that would otherwise be a waste. Waste is philosophically bad in its own way.

Being vegan is a wonderful, compassionate idea, but the people who practice it apply it in ways that are crazy sometimes, and even defeat the purpose.


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## bigtimeyarnie (Aug 26, 2012)

lostarts said:


> I read an article recently about a vegan who had a dog and took it to a vet, half-dead and she couldn't figure out why. It turned out to be because the owner refused to feed it any meat products.
> 
> The person left the poor animal with the vet rather than feed it properly.
> 
> ...


Well said!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Sheep and goats raised for their wool create jobs for the humans who:
care for them - herders, shearers, veterinarians, etc.
process the fleece into usable fibre
transport the fleece from farm to processing plant
spin the fibre into yarn
transport the yarn to the shop where it's sold or to the factory where it's used

Possums - native to Australia and an introduced pest to New Zealand - are the source of an exquisite yarn. In a (seemingly vain) effort to remove them from the NZ ecology, they are killed for their skins and for their fur fibre. They will be killed anyway, it's just wasteful to discard the pelts/fibre.

More knittable fibres are gathered from bison and muskoxen - without harming the animals.

Most of the folks whose jobs are in the raising, gathering, transporting, processing of _all_ commercially produced fibres/garments are not vegans.

Do those facts enter into their equations on just _what_ products are or are not vegan?


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## WestLAmum (Apr 17, 2011)

I don't know, but it harms nobody, so I don't ask, as to the woman who starved her poor dog, there are crazy people within every section of society. Crazy is crazy, no matter how she justifies it. All I ever asked from my daughter when she turned vegan was that she get regular testing for anemia and that she can do it or not do it, but don't yap about it. She has complied with both wishes and has been a healthy vegan for 11 years now. She feeds her animals appropriately and will not argue with her future children if they choose to eat meat, eggs, cheese, etc. she is engaged to an omnivore and cooks him meat on occasion.


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## HollyA (Apr 11, 2013)

If a sheep eats pasture isn't a sheep a vegetarian, or even a vegan?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

HollyA said:


> If a sheep eats pasture isn't a sheep a vegetarian, or even a vegan?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

What an interesting discussion - love it!!


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## cozyhomelife (Mar 14, 2013)

It's not that it's a bad thing to sheer them. It's the other problem. Like the lambs/llamas/whatever on the farm that are so cute and will not mine being sheered.... but when they breed for fiber, there are always too many too keep and they get the ax.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

A certain percentage of humans will get hit by cars and die.

Does that mean that we should never have children? 

Everything that's alive will die.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

lostarts said:


> A certain percentage of humans will get hit by cars and die.
> 
> Does that mean that we should never have children?
> 
> Everything that's alive will die.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

What a complicated world our rampant consumerism has given us!


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## cozyhomelife (Mar 14, 2013)

I was trying to answer the question that was ASKED. The question was what could a vegan possibly find wrong with wool/silk. I thought it was a real question, not just a stepping off point to make fun of vegan beliefs. 

So vegans desire to not reach out and hurt any living thing, guess that makes them freaks in this world! 

I wish I hadn't bothered....


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

cozyhomelife said:


> I was trying to answer the question that was ASKED. The question was what could a vegan possibly find wrong with wool/silk. I thought it was a real question, not just a stepping off point to make fun of vegan beliefs.
> 
> So vegans desire to not reach out and hurt any living thing, guess that makes them freaks in this world!
> 
> I wish I hadn't bothered....


This is a large community - Total number of users: 131,261 right now. 
This is also an open forum. 
As in any roomful of people having conversations, ideas bounce from one to another and discussions wander from or around the original question. 
I saw no remarks about freaks, except yours.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

cozyhomelife said:


> I was trying to answer the question that was ASKED. The question was what could a vegan possibly find wrong with wool/silk. I thought it was a real question, not just a stepping off point to make fun of vegan beliefs.
> 
> So vegans desire to not reach out and hurt any living thing, guess that makes them freaks in this world!
> 
> I wish I hadn't bothered....


I'm sorry. I don't think anybody here intended to make fun of you or anyone else.

I can agree with their aims.

Not all the things that some vegans do actually accomplish their aims, though. At least as I understand them.


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## Moondancermel (Nov 18, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


Well said Jessica-Jean. I have no issues with people who do not wish to eat animals or have them treated badly but they need to have an idea of the bigger picture and quit being quite so narrow minded. Many do more harm than good.

Ultimately, if I have someone ask me for Vegan fibers I stick to plant based ones. Acrylic may suit their purposes but it depends on how they feel about the environment. It also depends on how much money they are willing to pay as acrylic is much cheaper than many plant based materials. It is always wise to ask as they may not actually know how things are produced.


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## Roe (Feb 10, 2011)

My head hurts now


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Roe said:


> My head hurts now


Breathe deeply, and knit. This too shall pass.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Moondancermel said:


> ... Ultimately, if I have someone ask me for Vegan fibers I stick to plant based ones. Acrylic may suit their purposes but it depends on how they feel about the environment. It also depends on how much money they are willing to pay as acrylic is much cheaper than many plant based materials. It is always wise to ask as *they may not actually know how things are produced.*


I must be getting old. WHY don't people know how things are produced? In this day and age, all anyone has to do is google it. I cannot excuse their ignorance.


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## jo everest (May 28, 2011)

LOL :thumbup:


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## God's Girl (Jan 29, 2013)

Great thought and I agree. I have friends with Alpaca's and they must be shorn in the spring as they get very heavy in the winter and it is to hot for them come summer. They are not stressed at all.



Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> 
> Along the same lines, unless you grow your own food, none of it is purely 'vegan', since transporting it from the fields to your dish surely used more petroleum products. That was what drove my neighbour's ex-husband to move from the city to a farm, where he grew all his own food.


And probably what led to his being the "Ex" husband.


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## siouxann (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

judymiss said:


> Was looking at Etsy headbands and found some with the fiber content of "vegan friendly yarn". What is vegan friendly yarn?


Since vegan is all veggie...no meat, no chicken, not sure of milk???
Think vegan friendly would be things like cotton, bamboo, maybe.


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

cozyhomelife said:


> I was trying to answer the question that was ASKED. The question was what could a vegan possibly find wrong with wool/silk. I thought it was a real question, not just a stepping off point to make fun of vegan beliefs.
> 
> So vegans desire to not reach out and hurt any living thing, guess that makes them freaks in this world!
> 
> I wish I hadn't bothered....


We are sorry, Cozy, I'm sure no one meant to attack you or anyone else. So can you tell us - what yarns do you feel are vegan?


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## samdog13 (May 24, 2014)

You go girl, Jessica-Jean! IT is one thing to be ecologically responsible, but IMHO there IS a limit to how far one can go. Use a bike, walk or take public transport, eat responsibly raised food but - if you want to visit distant relatives, you have to drive or take a plane, which takes even more fuel and emits heavy fumes. If one doe not like to use wool or other animal yarns, then wear acrylics. Just don't preach at anyone else about it.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

mirl56 said:


> I bit off track, but this past week I was shopping for jacket. I came across a leather-looking coat with a tag that said it was "vegan leather." ????? What the heck is that??? further digging thru the coat lining I found it was 100% polyester!!!


"Polyester" just doesn't sound quite as upmarket, though, does it. :-D


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

interesting topic. thanks for asking.


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## antiqueone (Oct 2, 2013)

JTM said:


> Since vegan is all veggie...no meat, no chicken, not sure of milk???
> Think vegan friendly would be things like cotton, bamboo, maybe.


Vegan goes beyond "all veggie"....no animal products at all. No milk, eggs, cheese, etc.


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I worked with a woman (nearly 40 years ago) she was vegan and she had a cat. The vet told her that she would have to start feeding it meat or it would die, she came to work and asked me about feeding it as I had a cat as well. I told her to feed it meat and other animal products and that the vet was right. She did feed it properly after that.


lostarts said:


> I read an article recently about a vegan who had a dog and took it to a vet, half-dead and she couldn't figure out why. It turned out to be because the owner refused to feed it any meat products.
> 
> The person left the poor animal with the vet rather than feed it properly.
> 
> ...


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## whataknitwit (May 1, 2011)

Just curious, are Alpaca's raised for food?


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## justinevalla (Mar 3, 2015)

My friend has an alpaca farm in Texas. She takes care and loves her animals. They are well taken care. This is her retirement dream. She is sending me a blanket of one of her animals, for spinning. Should I feel guilty? I'm not vegan, but I don't eat meat! Alpaca is a joy to spin.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

WestLAmum said:


> My daughter and I have been round and round about using wool. My stance is that the sheep is happier for being shorn. It's one stressful day a year when the wool is cut, then back to a nice life for 364 days. My vegan daughter disagrees, saying that it supports factory farming and is against her beliefs. Whatever. She is entitled to her views, and I am entitled to knit nice wooly things for other people and save the acrylic and plant fibers for her.


Ask her if she'd ever seen a wool-bound sheep who can't move because its legs are tangled in matted fleece. That can't bend its head to eat. That has feces and urine trapped next to its skin be the fleece has so overgrown that there's no place else for waste products to go. Causing open sores that get fed upon by insects. Oh yes, leave the sheep alone...and end up with animals rotting on their feet.

Sorry, but some people just don't see that their idea of "kindness" can lead to the most appalling suffering.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

I don't think there was any 'fun' being made out of vegan beliefs at all but rather a serious drilling down to understand the point of view fully and hopefully to offer respect. With that said, how lucky are those of us in this world who can afford to have such a refined choice.


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## ilmacheryl (Feb 3, 2013)

My DIL is a vegetarian (not vegan) and she said the best advise she ever got about being vegetarian was to remember that it is a lifestyle - not a religion. Our son and grandchildren eat meat, so it gets cooked on their home, she just chooses to not eat it.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

One of my biggest peeves with the vegan crowd is their blatant dishonesty when it comes to what they -will- eat/wear/use, etc.

Almond/soy, etc -milk-...is NOT milk. Milk only comes from mammalian animals.

"Vegan" leather is NOT leather. It's plastic.

Veggie "burgers" are NOT burgers. Nor is any of the other fake meat. If you are so against using animal products, why label things to make them look like they come from animals?


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## kippyfure (Apr 9, 2011)

I had a teacher in Connecticut who had sheep raised for wool--they were very friendly, happy animals who lived in a huge beautiful pasture and had their own barn to boot. My sister in law has 5 alpaca--they are her babies--and they NEED to be shorn once a year. What is wrong with using the wool from these animals? And how about people who use dog hair to make wool? I really believe that sometimes this Vegan thing is being carried Much Too Far.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Isn't the labeling just marketing nonsense


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## shepherd (Feb 25, 2012)

OMG, now I have heard it all. When I come back I want to be one of my sheep. Just eat, sleep, have a sip of water when I need it, have sex once a year (if I am in the mood) and get a little daily exercise running around (and confounding) a dog for a few minutes. Going to sheep shows and watching all the people go by is the best part of it.


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## jac761 (Dec 5, 2011)

Well said Jean!!!


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## SueFerns (Aug 16, 2011)

Have you ever seen how animals are shorn for their fibers? Kinda scary when it's done so fast. 
How many "vegans" wear leather shoes or drive a car??
Is the term "vegan leather" meant to be from animals that die of old age??
Sorry, I tend to see both sides but I eat meat AND veggies.


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## Geeda602 (Apr 3, 2012)

I agree with you 200%! All these people with vegan/organic issues drive me "up a wall". They all drive cars? I rest my case!!!!!!!



Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


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## Geeda602 (Apr 3, 2012)

I agree with you 200%! All these people with vegan/organic issues drive me "up a wall". They all drive cars? I rest my case!!!!!!!



Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SueFerns said:


> Have you ever seen how animals are shorn for their fibers? Kinda scary when it's done so fast.
> How many "vegans" wear leather shoes or drive a car??
> Is the term "vegan leather" meant to be from animals that die of old age??
> Sorry, I tend to see both sides but I eat meat AND veggies.


Watch a Kiwi shearer in action and it is not scary but poetry in motion. Kiwis make the best shearers, both with the modern hand piece and the old fashioned blade shears. Never mind the rubbish put out by PETA, the shearers do not mistreat the sheep and do not handle them roughly. Yes, the occasional nicks do occur but they are nothing like that which is shown on PETA videos.


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## gsbyrge (Jul 12, 2011)

Vegans, just like any other group, have their extremists. The idea of refusing to contribute to factory farming, milk production (have you ever seen how those cows live?) and Premarin manufacture (you don't want to read about this just before bedtime unless you like nightmares) really appeals to me. I don't wear anything made from a dead animal - but I'm with those who believe wool and other fabric made from animals which are NOT killed for their wool, hair, etc. is a good thing. If you've ever seen an unshorn sheep that's been standing out in the rain awhile, you'll agree that shearing is a fairly unstressful thing compared to packing around tons of soggy wool! Do what your conscience says is the right thing and ignore the extremists.


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## SueFerns (Aug 16, 2011)

Agree wholeheartedly, I sometimes think I have made myself clear but do not. Depends on the person doing the shearing and the good ones don't get shared. Sorry to mislead anyone.


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## lainey_h (Dec 14, 2013)

There is a milk yarn - maybe that is the one to be avoided?


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## wolfey9 (Aug 17, 2011)

I like to knit with wool as well. However factory farming does not refer just to the size of the farm. It is an attitude where the primary concern is profit, not the welfare of the animals. I agree that sheep are more comfortable being sheared, especially since they have been bred to produce more fleece. The objection some people have to wool is how they are sheared in commercial farms. The faster they are sheared the more money the person shearing them can make. This involves shearing their skin, seriously at times, involving large areas of skin leading to much pain and potential infection. They are also roughly treated during this process involving broken bones and sometimes death. (Sheep was thrown resulting in a broken neck). The videos are out there if you want to know the truth about where your yarn comes from. And if you really want to make an informed decision, not just do not want to change, google "mulesling".

All that being said, I like to use wool. While going to fiber fests and talking to the vendors, I met people who talked about their sheep almost like pets. I saw a sheep being sheared and while he didn't look like he was having fun, my cats don't much like being combed either. (The alpacas, while humanely restrained, made me think of my visit to the gynecologist). Rather than buy from commercial companies where I have no idea of how they are treated or sheared, I can enjoy my knitting and sleep better at night knowing that these animals are treated humanely.

You can't control everything, but you can make changes. If people start letting manufacturers know their concerns and stop buying their wool, maybe sheep welfare will improve. In this world, the only way to make a difference is to hit them in the wallet.


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

Funny thing with this topic is we don't have any vegans getting hostile. Veganism is a lifestyle by choice, for many various reasons. Some possible factors may be ethical-spiritual-religious-health-environmental-political-economic, or any combination of these. Simply stated, veganism is the conviction and practice of compassionate living. Additionally, veganism is not about being "perfect." Rather, it is a means to create a more loving and just society for ALL LIFE. A vegan diet consist of vegetables,fruits,grains,
beans,nuts and seeds. No animal products.In addition to adopting a totally plant strong diet, vegans make a conscious effort to avoid all forms of cruelty, manipulation, and harm to animals regardless of any presumed benefit to humans. As mentioned here it is really impossible to be totally vegan in today's modern society. Vegan "perfection" in an industrialized society is not only unattainable but unrealistic, most of us that choose this lifestyle do not strive for purity. Know one is perfect, we can only strive to do our best. Every time the word vegan is mentioned on this site people seem to go nuts. No animal has to suffer or die for our sustenance. There were a few people that mentioned dietary concerns, pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan, by Brenda Davis,R.D. The only supplement needed is a sublingual B-12 and depending where you live vitamin D. I hope this clears up some of the confusion here, most vegans are very nice people. Reverence for life... extends beyond what a person eats.


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## GiffFylz56 (Jan 17, 2015)

To each his/her own. Scriptures say to do everything in moderation. Some super points made here. I also don't believe anyone was trying to be rude, name call, or hurt feelings. Many folks get on a bandwagon and become zealots about a cause. The sad things is that zealotry was kin to being murderous for a cause. God help us not to become a nation of zealots for any cause. Live, and let live. You girls are all great. Good discussion.


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

I removed my comment - it served no purpose


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## BarbaraBL (Nov 27, 2013)

ARANEA said:


> Funny thing with this topic is we don't have any vegans getting hostile. Veganism is a lifestyle by choice, for many various reasons. Some possible factors may be ethical-spiritual-religious-health-environmental-political-economic, or any combination of these. Simply stated, veganism is the conviction and practice of compassionate living. Additionally, veganism is not about being "perfect." Rather, it is a means to create a more loving and just society for ALL LIFE. A vegan diet consist of vegetables,fruits,grains,
> beans,nuts and seeds. No animal products.In addition to adopting a totally plant strong diet, vegans make a conscious effort to avoid all forms of cruelty, manipulation, and harm to animals regardless of any presumed benefit to humans. As mentioned here it is really impossible to be totally vegan in today's modern society. Vegan "perfection" in an industrialized society is not only unattainable but unrealistic, most of us that choose this lifestyle do not strive for purity. Know one is perfect, we can only strive to do our best. Every time the word vegan is mentioned on this site people seem to go nuts. No animal has to suffer or die for our sustenance. There were a few people that mentioned dietary concerns, pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan, by Brenda Davis,R.D. The only supplement needed is a sublingual B-12 and depending where you live vitamin D. I hope this clears up some of the confusion here, most vegans are very nice people. Reverence for life... extends beyond what a person eats.


 :thumbup:

I am not vegan myself but I have total admiration for vegans. I also find they are quite humble, caring people.


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## MtKnitter (Dec 10, 2011)

One time, I went wine tasting at a winery that sold vegan wine. I thought all wine was vegan but they said their vegan wine did not use manure for fertilizer. I was pretty surprised.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

MtKnitter said:


> One time, I went wine tasting at a winery that sold vegan wine. I thought all wine was vegan but they said their vegan wine did not use manure for fertilizer. I was pretty surprised.


Did they forget that yeast is needed for wine making?


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## RitaLittleCat (Sep 19, 2011)

ARANEA said:


> Funny thing with this topic is we don't have any vegans getting hostile. Veganism is a lifestyle by choice, for many various reasons. Some possible factors may be ethical-spiritual-religious-health-environmental-political-economic, or any combination of these. Simply stated, veganism is the conviction and practice of compassionate living. Additionally, veganism is not about being "perfect." Rather, it is a means to create a more loving and just society for ALL LIFE. A vegan diet consist of vegetables,fruits,grains,
> beans,nuts and seeds. No animal products.In addition to adopting a totally plant strong diet, vegans make a conscious effort to avoid all forms of cruelty, manipulation, and harm to animals regardless of any presumed benefit to humans. As mentioned here it is really impossible to be totally vegan in today's modern society. Vegan "perfection" in an industrialized society is not only unattainable but unrealistic, most of us that choose this lifestyle do not strive for purity. Know one is perfect, we can only strive to do our best. Every time the word vegan is mentioned on this site people seem to go nuts. No animal has to suffer or die for our sustenance. There were a few people that mentioned dietary concerns, pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan, by Brenda Davis,R.D. The only supplement needed is a sublingual B-12 and depending where you live vitamin D. I hope this clears up some of the confusion here, most vegans are very nice people. Reverence for life... extends beyond what a person eats.


Thank you for your insightful explanation. And I especially like your stating that it is a lifestyle. So many, vegans and not, confuse it with a religion. I have no problem with others lifestyles or religious beliefs as long as they're not inflicted on me.

This has been a wonderful topic. I wish I could thank you all individually for the commonsense responses and all the information but must be content with a group Thank You.


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## Bre (Jan 6, 2015)

interesting topic.

the processes that turn silk, bamboo, soy, corn, etc into yarn are toxic to the environment. and probably to breathe in while knitting 

polyester and acrylic are plastic; petroleum products. 

"rubber" is made from animal products these days because real rubber isn't durable enough. 

i have to agree that, unless you grow it, give it a haircut and spin it yourself, you won't find it truly vegan

i have vegan friends who happily play with 100% wool that has been dyed. They wear "rubber" on their feet, as well as plastic. but you can't ears shoes in their house, eat anything vaguely animal or give them anything plastic.

i think it is a matter of taste and comfort level.

people are funny critters.


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## Judy_ (Jun 25, 2011)

What is the problem if the animals are not killed, such as wool, angora, mohair, etc?


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## welsh wooly (Mar 3, 2014)

I can understand why vegans will not wear silk, you kill the papa to get it's cocoon. But I cannot understand why wool would be non vegan, the sheep are not harmed by sheering and in fact you are doing it a favour.
This is what happens when they don't have their annual hair cut.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/07/article-2000268-0C71BA3F00000578-953_634x511.jpg


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

I saw no disparaging remarks about veganism here, just a factual discussion as to what might or might not be considered vegan and why. 

Still, if a vegan is welcome to discuss the validity of their belief, then others should be able to discuss why they disagree.

As for wool - I would think vegans would be in support of it. No one who raises sheep to be shorn is going to treat these animals badly. The animals are their investment. I would think they would be cared for exceptionally well in the effort to produce a better coat. The stories of mistreatment surprise me. Would be crazy to intentionally harm the animals they make their living from..


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## Judy_ (Jun 25, 2011)

People are Omnivores. Most people are on a spectrum between vegetarianism and carnivorism. If one does not eat according to their inborn metabolism, they will eventually get sick, regardless of the B12 shots they get. The body knows and will crave what it needs after awhile. If you do not listen to your body, it will get dumbed down to whatever is forced onto it. I know of a nutritionist who says that the blood work of total vegans is not good, at least from the ones she has seen. Those who are on the far end of the spectrum for plants will stay healthy. But, someone who is on the meat eating end and who forces vegetarianism onto himself will get sick after awhile and visa versa. Most people are somewhere in-between. Listen to your body. It's always more balanced to not go to extremes. Moderation is all things has always held true.


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## welsh wooly (Mar 3, 2014)

I had no idea sheep were factory farmed, here in Wales you only see sheep out on the mountains or in the fields. And the only photos of sheep massed in pens are at market.


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## Judy_ (Jun 25, 2011)

What's wrong with killing a silk worm? It's a WORM! 
And they are raised for the purpose......
I kill flies, I kill mosquitoes.
I buy my beef from a farmer, who must butcher them. But, the meat is healthier than buying from the store from feedlot cattle.

Not meaning to sound fanatically religious or anything, but the good book tells us what we should eat to keep our bodies healthy. We weren't just shoved out the door and told to "go find food". We were told what would keep us healthy by the one who made our bodies and knows them the best.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

What a wonderful 24 hours of discussion!! Insightful and sometimes heated. BUT did we get to the bottom of the original question so innocently asked?? What is vegan friendly yarn. My conclusion is that its a vague term which is supposed to appeal to a 'niche market'. It has so many interpretations that its rather meaningless and therefore before purchasing such a product, further explanation would be necessary.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Judy_ said:


> What's wrong with killing a silk worm? It's a WORM!
> And they are raised for the purpose......
> I kill flies, I kill mosquitoes.
> I buy my beef from a farmer, who must butcher them. But, the meat is healthier than buying from the store from feedlot cattle.
> ...


I am not familiar with the "good book" at all...I assume you are talking about the bible or koran, or the like? Are you saying these books describe healthy eating?? Is eating meat in there?


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

imalulu said:


> I am not familiar with the "good book" at all...I assume you are talking about the bible or koran, or the like? Are you saying these books describe healthy eating?? Is eating meat in there?


Actually no, not in the beginning. According to the bible, the original garden was all plants...every manner of fruit and herb for both food and medicine. Even animals like the big carnivores were supposedly vegan. (Although it doesn't explain the dentition of such and with the denial of evolution, has no explanation.)

It hasn't been too long since I've actually seen some vegans declaring that wolves in the wild are vegans and never touch meat. In some people delusions run deep.


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## cookie68 (May 5, 2012)

gina said:


> I don't see why wool would not be vegan friendly. It comes from animals who are well taken care of, and who would suffer great discomfort if they were not shorn. The coat grows very heavy and pulls at their skin, and skin conditions can also develop.
> 
> If the ethical point of being a vegan is because you care about the animals, why would wool be wrong?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookie68 (May 5, 2012)

jbandsma said:


> Actually no, not in the beginning. According to the bible, the original garden was all plants...every manner of fruit and herb for both food and medicine. Even animals like the big carnivores were supposedly vegan. (Although it doesn't explain the dentition of such and with the denial of evolution, has no explanation.)
> 
> It hasn't been too long since I've actually seen some vegans declaring that wolves in the wild are vegans and never touch meat. In some people delusions run deep.


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

Faux meat substitutes are considered transition foods for those that would be new to a vegan lifestyle. Transition foods (processed foods) are convenience foods for those strapped for time. When people first begin this way of eating some are at a loss for what to put into a sandwich. Often college students start eating a plant based diet, most are not going to cook from scratch. Those of us that have been doing this for a while eat only locally grown whole foods, cooked from scratch. You can walk into a Barnes and Noble book store today and find selves upon shelves of vegetarian/vegan cookbooks. 
Twenty five years ago there would have been three books on the bottom shelf, you would kick them accidentally with your foot before you would know they existed. So believe it or not this is a growing trend. 
Milk... Almond beverage,rice beverage,mixed grain,soy, hemp,nut,how about coconut MILK. It's all in the name, do you know years ago you couldn't even find the milk alternatives in the local grocery stores. The name needs to be simplistic so people know that it can be interchanged equally with it's rival. For use in baking and other recipes. The consistency is very different between them so some are better for thickening and so on.
It's so easy to make your own nut milks if you have the time. With the faux milks so easily accessible today many people other than vegans have come to the realization that they are healthier for humans. Humans should have been ween hopefully, prior to starting kindergarten. There is so much people should learn about dairy, it is NOT a health food. Google info.
Yes, I will agree with a few people that stated veganism is a lifestyle NOT a religion.
I've been living this lifestyle for better than 25 years and I am also to understand that you should NOT feed a CAT a vegetarian diet. A dog does very well with a vegetarian diet, I purchase a balanced prepared dog food called V-Dog. My vet said most people forget the dog does have a waist because most can't see it. I raised 3 out of 6 beagles vegetarian. Their food never smells rancid when I open there 5gal. container. It stores very well. 
Lastly, I call my husband a (flexitarian) because he only gets to eat meat in a restaurant, thank goodness we don't go out to eat very often.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Phew!!!! Fellow knitters - what's the answer to the original question???!!!! Viz : what is vegan friendly yarn


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## maomac (Oct 21, 2013)

ARANEA said:


> Funny thing with this topic is we don't have any vegans getting hostile. Veganism is a lifestyle by choice, for many various reasons. Some possible factors may be ethical-spiritual-religious-health-environmental-political-economic, or any combination of these. Simply stated, veganism is the conviction and practice of compassionate living. Additionally, veganism is not about being "perfect." Rather, it is a means to create a more loving and just society for ALL LIFE. A vegan diet consist of vegetables,fruits,grains,
> beans,nuts and seeds. No animal products.In addition to adopting a totally plant strong diet, vegans make a conscious effort to avoid all forms of cruelty, manipulation, and harm to animals regardless of any presumed benefit to humans. As mentioned here it is really impossible to be totally vegan in today's modern society. Vegan "perfection" in an industrialized society is not only unattainable but unrealistic, most of us that choose this lifestyle do not strive for purity. Know one is perfect, we can only strive to do our best. Every time the word vegan is mentioned on this site people seem to go nuts. No animal has to suffer or die for our sustenance. There were a few people that mentioned dietary concerns, pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan, by Brenda Davis,R.D. The only supplement needed is a sublingual B-12 and depending where you live vitamin D. I hope this clears up some of the confusion here, most vegans are very nice people. Reverence for life... extends beyond what a person eats.


Well said. I try to be vegan but at times cannot. If I cannot go vegan, vegetarian is my guide. It is my way of improving my life, my health and my planet. If my choices make someone else think, I have done well. I hope that is what we are doing here - making each other think, not condemning or mocking one another's choices.


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

judypfennemore said:


> Phew!!!! Fellow knitters - what's the answer to the original question???!!!! Viz : what is vegan friendly yarn


You see now that people disagree as to what ought to be considered a vegan yarn. You have to decide, from the facts posted, with whom you most agree.


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## justinevalla (Mar 3, 2015)

Everyone should be appalled at factory farming!


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

justinevalla said:


> Everyone should be appalled at factory farming!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

As to "factory farming" - I am hardly an expert on the subject, or, come to think of it on any subject. But it stands to reason that harming a farmed sheep meant for shearing, would be counter-productive. A bit like a factory owner purposely damaging his machinery I would think.


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## Kensbarb (Aug 27, 2014)

Once again, Jessica Jean, right on!


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## Jannette Burke (Nov 21, 2014)

Anything to confuse the older generation, but then again they do not know tencel, silk, etc.


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## GiffFylz56 (Jan 17, 2015)

This is actually done with scientific studies. I have the books by D'Adamo about Eating for Your Blood Type. They are excellent books and have helped me to discover what causes food discomfort. Some people, according to blood type, are actually made ill by not eating meat; still others have a blood type that allows them to be vegetarian/vegan without harm.



Judy_ said:


> People are Omnivores. Most people are on a spectrum between vegetarianism and carnivorism. If one does not eat according to their inborn metabolism, they will eventually get sick, regardless of the B12 shots they get. The body knows and will crave what it needs after awhile. If you do not listen to your body, it will get dumbed down to whatever is forced onto it. I know of a nutritionist who says that the blood work of total vegans is not good, at least from the ones she has seen. Those who are on the far end of the spectrum for plants will stay healthy. But, someone who is on the meat eating end and who forces vegetarianism onto himself will get sick after awhile and visa versa. Most people are somewhere in-between. Listen to your body. It's always more balanced to not go to extremes. Moderation is all things has always held true.


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## GiffFylz56 (Jan 17, 2015)

Leviticus 11
And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. ...
Also in the new testament, there are references to Paul seeing a vision where God tells him to eat, but Paul says things are unclean to Jews. God then tells him that he is not to call anything unclean which God has called clean. (referencing to eating animals with uncloven hooves and pig.) I am also not trying to push religion. Just interesting information. 


jbandsma said:


> Actually no, not in the beginning. According to the bible, the original garden was all plants...every manner of fruit and herb for both food and medicine. Even animals like the big carnivores were supposedly vegan. (Although it doesn't explain the dentition of such and with the denial of evolution, has no explanation.)
> 
> It hasn't been too long since I've actually seen some vegans declaring that wolves in the wild are vegans and never touch meat. In some people delusions run deep.


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## mmccamant (Jul 17, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> I bit off track, but this past week I was shopping for jacket. I came across a leather-looking coat with a tag that said it was "vegan leather." ????? What the heck is that??? further digging thru the coat lining I found it was 100% polyester!!!


Vegan leather is plastic, "pleather."


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

judypfennemore said:


> Isn't the labeling just marketing nonsense


Yes - nonsense that fills the companies' coffers.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

gsbyrge said:


> ... If you've ever seen an unshorn sheep that's been standing out in the rain awhile, you'll agree that shearing is a fairly unstressful thing compared to packing around tons of soggy wool! Do what your conscience says is the right thing and ignore the extremists.


I thought that the sheep's lanolin prevented water from penetrating their fleece - that water sort of rolled right off them the way it does a duck's back.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

lainey_h said:


> There is a milk yarn - maybe that is the one to be avoided?


Read this and think about it some, before you decide: http://exchangingfire.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/what-is-milk-fiber/

Some of these may be more vegan than others: http://slowyarn.com/rayon-ingeo-soy-silk-bamboo-and-more


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

wolfey9 said:


> ... In this world, the only way to make a difference is to hit them in the wallet.


It's unfortunately all too true.


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

GiffFylz56 said:


> Leviticus 11
> And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. ...
> Also in the new testament, there are references to Paul seeing a vision where God tells him to eat, but Paul says things are unclean to Jews. God then tells him that he is not to call anything unclean which God has called clean. (referencing to eating animals with uncloven hooves and pig.) I am also not trying to push religion. Just interesting information.


I was talking Genesis, not Leviticus and later.


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## pierrette (Jul 18, 2012)

Now I have heard of everything!&#128066;&#128514;


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## maggies mum (Jan 20, 2013)

That is way too PC.Are they going to eat the yarn?Sheep etc don't die to give their fleece ,only possums here in NZ as they are a pest and carry TB.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Just look for the standard global icon of a wide open mouth head silhouette and a large red circle with a diagonal line running through it. Vegan is a term only used for injestable products and I have yet to find a ply for false teeth. My response would be it is made from 100% guaranteed organic mercerized cotton to satisfy that question. Or the opposite would be "It has yet to be legalized for that form of injestion whether medical or recreational", and definitely without the use of metal utensils to place it into ones mouth since they tend to freeze the utensil to the tongue should would recommend square chop stick ones for arthritic hands with much more accurate gauge to get the yarn into ones mouth.

I could market baby friendly vegan fibers for making sweet animal toys from so they can teeth on them instead of the cancerous plastics used in teething rings--perhaps in child friendly colors in crocheted rings like the hot pads of old. Or the slow cooker method--toss in vegan fiber and after twelve hours remove designer created garment without any blocking necessary. Definitely no glues or stiffening agents are used in my precious hand created doilies, table runners, place mats or napkin rings in full disclosure. Do vegans not have pets? Do they ever visit a zoo or take in methane gas from other members of their family? That is why cancer is so rampant since there are too many old farts lingering around :roll:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

disgo said:


> Just look for the standard global icon of a wide open mouth head silhouette and a large red circle with a diagonal line running through it. Vegan is a term only used for injestable products and I have yet to find a ply for false teeth. My response would be it is made from 100% guaranteed organic mercerized cotton to satisfy that question. Or the opposite would be "It has yet to be legalized for that form of injestion whether medical or recreational", and definitely without the use of metal utensils to place it into ones mouth since they tend to freeze the utensil to the tongue should would recommend square chop stick ones for arthritic hands with much more accurate gauge to get the yarn into ones mouth.


You missed your calling as a stand-up comedian!! :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Are there wheelchair bound ones? I'm getting my order from doc on Wed so should I ask for a laugh track version and a back fire sound for the disabled parking spot I'm going to need also?

SHAME ON YOU :twisted: --you should know better than to make any form of acknowledgement to those exhibiting such bad behavior.

I forgot to ask you why Boye has no hook sizes in letters on their gauge tool? They have them on their hooks. And how come Susan Bates 9.00mm is larger than Boye's 9.00mm and where is your link to the electronic calibers for more accurate measurements of tools? Please also include a photo as well since I have no idea what to look for and my eye sight is shot so need all the assistance I can get.

Do I pose those questions in General Chit Chat or under PM? KP only gives written instructions without touching on errata issues and has no charts/graphs for me to follow and be able to blow up 400%.


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## seemyart (May 31, 2013)

doesn't it mean the yarn only eats vegan food?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

seemyart said:


> doesn't it mean the yarn only eats vegan food?


 :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

disgo said:


> Are there wheelchair bound ones? I'm getting my order from doc on Wed so should I ask for a laugh track version and a back fire sound for the disabled parking spot I'm going to need also?
> 
> SHAME ON YOU :twisted: --you should know better than to make any form of acknowledgement to those exhibiting such bad behavior.
> 
> ...


I only have one genuine made-in-USA Boye needle gauge, and it's an old aluminium one; only US needle sizes and no mention of crochet hooks. I do have multiple Susan Bates needle gauges; they're all old but the newer ones do have the crochet hook sizes, though no metric.

US makers make US sizes, which are based on music wire sizing, which is based on sound ... so not exactly logical today and resulting in a variety of same size labels on a variety of true diameters. If you _must_ know the diameter of your knitting needle/crochet hook, hie thee to a good hardware store and lay out the bucks to purchase a vernier caliper - electronic if possible. But it's not necessary. Those tools are used with elastic and flexible yarn. Swatch and use whatever tool gives you the best result, _and_ be aware that the material used to make the tool also influences gauge.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

GiffFylz56 said:


> Leviticus 11
> And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. ...
> Also in the new testament, there are references to Paul seeing a vision where God tells him to eat, but Paul says things are unclean to Jews. God then tells him that he is not to call anything unclean which God has called clean. (referencing to eating animals with uncloven hooves and pig.) I am also not trying to push religion. Just interesting information.


What then pray telleth does one do with goats (non-cud chewers with cloven hooves) or horses with no cud either but uncloven hooves and the Chinese calling a sheep a goat to westerners? So definitely no fowl or fish either--  weren't the Disciples to some "fishermen of now men" where Jesus came upon them at the edge of the sea fishing? What does one think when it was discovered later from the bones that many "hoofed" animals are really toe nails from one of their many ancestoral digits. Pigs can and do regurge often with their tongues that go way past the oro-pharnyx. The Senator that discussed openly how she "nutted" them in her youth failed to mention that when placing worming pills (required by law) down their gullets you have to push you entire hand with the pill to keep them from regurging it on you and then holding their snouts shut until they quit squealing long enough to swallow. That means you had better have a person that knows how to pry open their muscular jaws that can crunch a walnut like we eat popped corn (they like theirs un-popped by the way and will follow you every where just to get MORE).

http//www//[email protected] with a 50% off coupon for all sins from now until Sunday at noon, then 45% until sun down and then 10% after that.


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## kathycam (Apr 24, 2012)

shepherd said:


> OMG, now I have heard it all. When I come back I want to be one of my sheep. Just eat, sleep, have a sip of water when I need it, have sex once a year (if I am in the mood) and get a little daily exercise running around (and confounding) a dog for a few minutes. Going to sheep shows and watching all the people go by is the best part of it.


 :lol: You are so funny! I have always said I want to come back as one of my mother's dogs. They had life so much better than we kids.


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## jobailey (Dec 22, 2011)

gina said:


> I don't see why wool would not be vegan friendly. It comes from animals who are well taken care of, and who would suffer great discomfort if they were not shorn. The coat grows very heavy and pulls at their skin, and skin conditions can also develop.
> 
> If the ethical point of being a vegan is because you care about the animals, why would wool be wrong?


I totally agree with you!!!


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

GiffFylz56 said:


> .......Some people, according to blood type, are actually made ill by not eating meat; still others have a blood type that allows them to be vegetarian/vegan without harm.


Same with cannibals that cannot stand the taste of vegan flesh--just tastes like snake or even worse "chicken" with both being eggs layers.

The only blood one cannot truly injest is their own. If it is what is called "frank/profuse" bleeding then you will vomit immediately or squirt bloody stool. If it is a slower process then it will clot before projectile extrusions occur and the last is a slow small leak with consequential tary substances that is how the body can contain it until getting it out some port hole.

You can only imagine the "healty" vegans that had a massive bleed and how their bodies responded to efforts to save them. Vegans never die but just dry out and shrivel up and get blown away by the meat eaters methane gas explosions. Vegans are the worst pollutors of methane gas next to the cows they detest so much which are the real true vegans with no need what so ever from any source of protein or vitamin supplements. I give my plants no vitamins what so ever yet they create many that vegans use so why cant they create their own?


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

mmccamant said:


> Vegan leather is plastic, "pleather."


Perhaps you meant linoleum and then vinly. The polyester that made Ultrasuede was also used for "Leatherette" created at the same time. It is the same process for making it today with Ultrasuede made cheaper in the microfiber fabrics. What do vegans sit on or worse recline in--eeewww too gross to even imagine sitting like their direct ancestors the great apes and eating their recycled fiber from the day before eatings to get the total benefit they need to survive and grow big and strong (much stronger than any vegan could ever imagine and the body builders would have figured that out long ago).


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I only have one genuine made-in-USA Boye needle gauge, and it's an old aluminium one; only US needle sizes and no mention of crochet hooks. I do have multiple Susan Bates needle gauges; they're all old but the newer ones do have the crochet hook sizes, though no metric.
> 
> US makers make US sizes, which are based on music wire sizing, which is based on sound ... so not exactly logical today and resulting in a variety of same size labels on a variety of true diameters. If you _must_ know the diameter of your knitting needle/crochet hook, hie thee to a good hardware store and lay out the bucks to purchase a vernier caliper - electronic if possible. But it's not necessary. Those tools are used with elastic and flexible yarn. Swatch and use whatever tool gives you the best result, _and_ be aware that the material used to make the tool also influences gauge.


  :roll:  I have now hit rock bottom since I thought for sure you had some linketh up your sleeveth to pop out at the appropriate time.

Well no wonder one can only go from A-G in music. I can only imagine the size needed for an S note! Just like all lumber forms then you are saying is the same in yarn determinations and the tool sizes as well. Just another way to keep everyone befuttled so they can say anything they like to make a sale "You just have to have the Q as it is the best for the softest of skins without needing any lotions whether organic or naturally made. Comes with a life time guarantee of course to keep you hands skin in top running order for all those course fibers that may cause it damage."


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

disgo said:


> ... http//www//[email protected] with a 50% off coupon for all sins from now until Sunday at noon, then 45% until sun down and then 10% after that.


Because your made-up URL has an '@' in it, I recognized that it was ersatz. That didn't stop me from asking google to go to it. It led me to: http://www.momen.org/relstud/amr.htm :shock: :shock: :?: :?:


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## Mariecs (Jan 30, 2015)

Well said. I personally thing a lot of people goes "koekoes" about stuff, (Koekoes means going overboard) What will someone come up with next. Just asking.


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## alfief (Nov 11, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> Watch a Kiwi shearer in action and it is not scary but poetry in motion. Kiwis make the best shearers, both with the modern hand piece and the old fashioned blade shears. Never mind the rubbish put out by PETA, the shearers do not mistreat the sheep and do not handle them roughly. Yes, the occasional nicks do occur but they are nothing like that which is shown on PETA videos.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Mariecs (Jan 30, 2015)

I do not think a vegan or any person who believe in something I do not believe in is a freak. But some of the stuff they come up with freaks other people. No person is a freak and I do not think all the comments is directed to your daughter. Just read it and have a good laugh at other "freaky" people.


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## WendyMargaret (Sep 10, 2014)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


You got that right. I thought vegan had to do with killing sensate beings. Don't sacrifice sensate beings for food or other uses. To shear a sheep is a good thing and using the wool is a good thing. How do we know if bamboo doesn't feel distress when it is harvested?


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

So many people responding off topic here are seriously crude. I don't find any humor in some of these responses. I responded earlier today to try to educate some of you in a polite way about veganism, if you don't have a intelligent response it might be better to keep your thoughts to yourself. FYI, the saturated animal fat consumed does block arteries, that is well documented in medical literature. Not to offend anyone but I think there are quite a few arteries blocked and minimal blood flow going to some brain cells. How many of you are on cholesterol lowering medication or pop a pill so you can tolerate the lactose in dairy? People take these medications so they can continue to eat as they please, the S-tandard 
A-merican D-iet ... = SAD, so very sad.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

disgo said:


> Perhaps you meant linoleum and then vinly. The polyester that made Ultrasuede was also used for "Leatherette" created at the same time. It is the same process for making it today with Ultrasuede made cheaper in the microfiber fabrics. What do vegans sit on or worse recline in--eeewww too gross to even imagine sitting like their direct ancestors the great apes and eating their recycled fiber from the day before eatings to get the total benefit they need to survive and grow big and strong (much stronger than any vegan could ever imagine and the body builders would have figured that out long ago).


Haven't had a chance to read all the postings. Has anybody seen any naugas around? You can use the hide of the nauga without having to eat the innards.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

disgo said:


> :roll:  I have now hit rock bottom since I thought for sure you had some linketh up your sleeveth to pop out at the appropriate time.
> 
> Well no wonder one can only go from A-G in music. I can only imagine the size needed for an S note! Just like all lumber forms then you are saying is the same in yarn determinations and the tool sizes as well. Just another way to keep everyone befuttled so they can say anything they like to make a sale "You just have to have the Q as it is the best for the softest of skins without needing any lotions whether organic or naturally made. Comes with a life time guarantee of course to keep you hands skin in top running order for all those course fibers that may cause it damage."


We are not alone. When you use lumber as does my DH for many projects, you will learn that a 2x 4 is really a 1 3/4 by 3 1/2 or there abouts. At least when we knit or crochet we can do a gauge swatch and get the size we want.


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## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

There is a difference between vegan and vegetarian.


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## lainey_h (Dec 14, 2013)

ARANEA said:


> So many people responding off topic here are seriously crude. I don't find any humor in some of these responses. I responded earlier today to try to educate some of you in a polite way about veganism, if you don't have a intelligent response it might be better to keep your thoughts to yourself. FYI, the saturated animal fat consumed does block arteries, that is well documented in medical literature. Not to offend anyone but I think there are quite a few arteries blocked and minimal blood flow going to some brain cells. How many of you are on cholesterol lowering medication or pop a pill so you can tolerate the lactose in dairy? People take these medications so they can continue to eat as they please, the S-tandard
> A-merican D-iet ... = SAD, so very sad.


And sometimes people take these medications because of medical issues beyond the scope of what a dietary change can fix. I've personally known several people who could not lower their cholesterol with ANY change in diet. That's a big generalization to say that the standard diet in America is pathetic, and you may not want to offend anyone, but I'm sure offense is taken by some. And I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that I'm sorry you were offended. The vegan diet is a big commitment, not for everyone, and there are other ways to eat in a healthy manner. Why don't we just redirect the discussion back to the meaning of vegan yarn, and leave individual dietary choices to the individual?


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

Longtimer said:


> Because some vegan somewhere heard about some practice somewhere in Australia that they did not approve of. I don't even think it was common practice. Vegans can only exist by using petroleum products. (Think shoes) These products and the accompanying chemicals are harmful to the environment. The ones I talked to are concerned about the animals, but don't think about child labor or poor working conditions.
> However, do not confuse vegans with vegetarians.


Oh, I won't. We have a vegetarian in the family, and I only eat chicken and fish, not for any high-minded reason, just don't like red meat. And certainly am not going to give up wool.


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## Hannelore (Oct 26, 2011)

I had never heard of vegan friendly yarn before. Each person has the right to use whatever yarn they like. Personally I prefer wool and like the fact that our sheep in Australia have free range on the huge properties here, and the sheep can be shorn for many years.


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## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


just got back after being away for a few days...I agree with you totally.


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

I'm basically a vegan for health reasons, but I have 15 sheep. They are pets and keep our pastures clear and produce wool. I rarely sell any. We sheer them ourselves. After they are relieved of their heavy fleeces, they turn into goofy kids. It is so fun to watch old and young alike bouncing around like a bunch of lambs at play. 

Maybe there needs to be an "organic" label for animal fiber that has been harvested from animals in a safe and healthy manner ... something that even a hard-line vegan would feel good about using.


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## dawnmc1 (Sep 3, 2011)

Agree to all of that!


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## cheeny (Mar 12, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> What was she wearing on her feet? Shoes made of plastic that would make her feet smelly? Wooden clogs that would surely be uncomfortable? Shoes made from man made materials that would also lead to smelly feet? Those sneakers that the teenager wear that look shabby very quickly? Or perhaps she was going barefooted in all the dirt and dust, including stepping on the spot where someone just spat a wad of chewing baccy.


i'm with you EVEMCooke, what does she or any other vegan wear on their feet. as you said plastic and sneakers get not only smelly but also aren't plastic shoes and the soles of sneakers both made from petroleum based products? and if they wear wooden clogs wouldn't that be unfriendly to the trees and all that they supply us with that is good? were does it ever end.


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## meetoo (Nov 20, 2011)

dawnmc1 said:


> Agree to all of that!


me too!!!!
:thumbup:


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I think the issue that Longtimer was referring to in her post was Muelsing. It was PETA that made the complaint about the Muelsing of the sheep here. Muelsing is cutting away the skin around the anus area of the sheep to prevent fly-strike. Unfortunately this is done with no anesthetic and is painful. It has nothing to do with shearing the wool.

We have huge sheep stations here some of them are as big as in square miles as England, it makes it very difficult to keep an eye on all of the animals and if they do get flyblown they would have a terrible death being eaten from inside out with maggots. The sheep are put through the sheep dip on occasions and this does help.


gina said:


> Oh, I won't. We have a vegetarian in the family, and I only eat chicken and fish, not for any high-minded reason, just don't like red meat. And certainly am not going to give up wool.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Haven't had a chance to read all the postings. Has anybody seen any naugas around? You can use the hide of the nauga without having to eat the innards.


I raised the cute sweet tempered creatures in the alfalfa fields we had. They shed their "skin" every two weeks if you let them gorge as directed causing them to blow up profusely and thus needing more than the negative ease their former layer allowed. Wish I still had my herd since I could make a bundle selling now to the vegan only fiber folk, but fear like the actual fur trade I would take a huge profit decrease and you know what that would result in--poor SAD dead naugi . True naugahyde like the rayon polyamides before was a surprise discovery and required more fine tuning with other chemical reactions to make its natural brittle state more pliable. It was never developed for clothing and thus like fiberglass fabrics can only be used in upholstery and such. And as us older folk know all to well it can be torn/cut far to easily and thus lost its popularity it had after being first introduced.


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## mavisb (Apr 18, 2011)

I don't understand vegan wool. Each to their own but I think if the sheep aren't shorn they are uncomfortable and as JJ said Acrylic is made from petroleum and has to go through three or four cycles before it can be classed as wool.


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## marciechow (Mar 19, 2014)

HollyA said:


> If a sheep eats pasture isn't a sheep a vegetarian, or even a vegan?


No, it would not be, you cannot keep pastured animals (or any animal) from eating meat, when the animal is grazing it eats parasites, eggs, and the larva. That is why you have to check your pastured animals for parasites on regular basics.


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

gina said:


> I don't see why wool would not be vegan friendly. It comes from animals who are well taken care of, and who would suffer great discomfort if they were not shorn. The coat grows very heavy and pulls at their skin, and skin conditions can also develop.
> 
> If the ethical point of being a vegan is because you care about the animals, why would wool be wrong?


Sounds right to me! Very interesting thread of comments!


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## bigKate (Jan 27, 2013)

Tourche! I believe this vegan thing has been taken too far!
Personally know someone who will not eat eggs but eats cookies (made with eggs, of course, and some even require milk to make them). (Didn't see them being made so it doesn't count - really?)



Jessica-Jean said:


> Acrylic is a petroleum by-product.
> Petroleum is the eons-old product of dead *animals* and plants.
> Transporting _anything_ uses more petroleum products.
> Processing all those assorted fibres uses power that may be produced by the burning of more petroleum products.
> ...


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## maomac (Oct 21, 2013)

ARANEA said:


> So many people responding off topic here are seriously crude. I don't find any humor in some of these responses. I responded earlier today to try to educate some of you in a polite way about veganism, if you don't have a intelligent response it might be better to keep your thoughts to yourself. FYI, the saturated animal fat consumed does block arteries, that is well documented in medical literature. Not to offend anyone but I think there are quite a few arteries blocked and minimal blood flow going to some brain cells. How many of you are on cholesterol lowering medication or pop a pill so you can tolerate the lactose in dairy? People take these medications so they can continue to eat as they please, the S-tandard
> A-merican D-iet ... = SAD, so very sad.


Thank you again for your post (and the mention of the Davis book.) I heartily agree. The insults and crude comments that have been posted are - I want to say beyond belief, but unfortunately this is something we see more and more of every day. I thought the point of this forum was to provide information and support to fellow knitters, crocheters, and other craftspeople. The original poster wanted an answer to a simple question. There may be no such thing as vegan friendly yarn. You could have posted your opinions as to why it is difficult to define - e.g. the petroleum used etc without the insults.


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## AlderRose (May 5, 2011)

When I use the term "vegan," I refer to an eating style that does not consume animal products which would require an animal to give it's life or energy. In the same way that a vegan does not eat eggs or milk, which are from animals but not requiring their death, then in the strictest sense, using fibers from animals would fall into the same category. 

If I adopt the vegan diet to for personal health reasons, I'm not thinking so much of animals' welfare as I am my own. If, on the other hand, I adopt that diet as a means to protect animals from exploitation and inhumane treatment, then it would seem that I would be obligating myself to seriously consider what is actually best for the animals in question.

As for Vegan Yarn: I wish this young lady could see how miserable my sheep are right now. They each are carrying about 6 pounds of wool in quickly warming weather. They waddle and pant. It is my point of view that the most humane thing to do for them is to remove that heavy coat. 

I look at harvesting their wool as part of a partnership. I provide food and shelter. I trim their feet and tend them if they get sick. I provide a guard dog to protect them from predators. They provide me with companionship... even friendship, and entertain me with their crazy antics. They also produce wool which I carefully and lovingly harvest every year.


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

maomac said:


> Thank you again for your post (and the mention of the Davis book.) I heartily agree. The insults and crude comments that have been posted are - I want to say beyond belief, but unfortunately this is something we see more and more of every day. I thought the point of this forum was to provide information and support to fellow knitters, crocheters, and other craftspeople. The original poster wanted an answer to a simple question. There may be no such thing as vegan friendly yarn. You could have posted your opinions as to why it is difficult to define - e.g. the petroleum used etc without the insults.


 Thanks for your support!
:thumbup:


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## Bunyip (Jan 1, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> I must be getting old. WHY don't people know how things are produced? In this day and age, all anyone has to do is google it. I cannot excuse their ignorance.


There are children and adults who live in cities who have no idea where milk comes from.

One instance was a parent who accompanied a school group outing to a farm. When they came to the milking shed and the cows were being milked, she asked what was happening. When told she screamed, and said she thought it came from cartons in shops! She added that she would never touch the stuff again.

Just so you know, the children laughed like crazy at her comments.


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## WestLAmum (Apr 17, 2011)

maomac said:


> Thank you again for your post (and the mention of the Davis book.) I heartily agree. The insults and crude comments that have been posted are - I want to say beyond belief, but unfortunately this is something we see more and more of every day. I thought the point of this forum was to provide information and support to fellow knitters, crocheters, and other craftspeople. The original poster wanted an answer to a simple question. There may be no such thing as vegan friendly yarn. You could have posted your opinions as to why it is difficult to define - e.g. the petroleum used etc without the insults.


I am at a loss at reading the hostile and unamusing comments posted here. If someone professed religious beliefs and others jumped on them, there would be a huge outcry. Why, when all a group of people want to do is take lighter steps upon the Earth, is there all this nitpicking? Move on if it bothers you. Don't read if all you want to do is criticize. Some people do not want to exploit animals in any form (yes, oil comes from animals and plants that have been dead for millions of years. So what?). Deal with it.


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## lainey_h (Dec 14, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Read this and think about it some, before you decide: http://exchangingfire.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/what-is-milk-fiber/
> 
> Some of these may be more vegan than others: http://slowyarn.com/rayon-ingeo-soy-silk-bamboo-and-more


Thank you! I don't know why I never investigated this fiber more completely, but I appreciate the link.


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## lainey_h (Dec 14, 2013)

hilltopper said:


> I saw no disparaging remarks about veganism here, just a factual discussion as to what might or might not be considered vegan and why.
> 
> Still, if a vegan is welcome to discuss the validity of their belief, then others should be able to discuss why they disagree.
> 
> As for wool - I would think vegans would be in support of it. No one who raises sheep to be shorn is going to treat these animals badly. The animals are their investment. I would think they would be cared for exceptionally well in the effort to produce a better coat. The stories of mistreatment surprise me. Would be crazy to intentionally harm the animals they make their living from..


I agree with you on all points. I've gone back through all of the posts, and I realize that some people have deleted their comments, so maybe those were the ones that were insulting. I guess I just don't see anything that speaks ill of vegans, but I did see a lot of very interesting discussion.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lainey_h said:


> And sometimes people take these medications because of medical issues beyond the scope of what a dietary change can fix. I've personally known several people who could not lower their cholesterol with ANY change in diet. That's a big generalization to say that the standard diet in America is pathetic, and you may not want to offend anyone, but I'm sure offense is taken by some. And I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that I'm sorry you were offended. The vegan diet is a big commitment, not for everyone, and there are other ways to eat in a healthy manner. Why don't we just redirect the discussion back to the meaning of vegan yarn, and leave individual dietary choices to the individual?


Also, not all elevated cholesterol is caused by diet. There are some of us whose metabolic profile is such that we produce more cholesterol than the average person. I am one; it runs in my father's side of the family. On top of that, I had severe side effects from a statin medication. My doctor had me take blood tests for liver and kidney function for a couple of years after I stopped taking the statin. I had taken it less than two weeks when the muscle pain and weakness set in. It took months to get back to normal.


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## WendyMargaret (Sep 10, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Also, not all elevated cholesterol is caused by diet. There are some of us whose metabolic profile is such that we produce more cholesterol than the average person. I am one; it runs in my father's side of the family. On top of that, I had severe side effects from a statin medication. My doctor had me take blood tests for liver and kidney function for a couple of years after I stopped taking the statin. I had taken it less than two weeks when the muscle pain and weakness set in. It took months to get back to normal.


The same thing happened to my husband.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

ARANEA said:


> Funny thing with this topic is we don't have any vegans getting hostile. Veganism is a lifestyle by choice, for many various reasons. Some possible factors may be ethical-spiritual-religious-health-environmental-political-economic, or any combination of these. Simply stated, veganism is the conviction and practice of compassionate living. Additionally, veganism is not about being "perfect." Rather, it is a means to create a more loving and just society for ALL LIFE. A vegan diet consist of vegetables,fruits,grains,
> beans,nuts and seeds. No animal products.In addition to adopting a totally plant strong diet, vegans make a conscious effort to avoid all forms of cruelty, manipulation, and harm to animals regardless of any presumed benefit to humans. As mentioned here it is really impossible to be totally vegan in today's modern society. Vegan "perfection" in an industrialized society is not only unattainable but unrealistic, most of us that choose this lifestyle do not strive for purity. Know one is perfect, we can only strive to do our best. Every time the word vegan is mentioned on this site people seem to go nuts. No animal has to suffer or die for our sustenance. There were a few people that mentioned dietary concerns, pick up a copy of Becoming Vegan, by Brenda Davis,R.D. The only supplement needed is a sublingual B-12 and depending where you live vitamin D. I hope this clears up some of the confusion here, most vegans are very nice people. Reverence for life... extends beyond what a person eats.


ARANEA, this is not directed only to you and your comments but I don't think anyone is criticizing vegans as a group, that would be a sweeping generalization. But there are extremists in any group. And you have to admit that there is a certain irony in someone harming an animal for which they have accepted personal responsibility (inadequate diet for species)in order to feel they are not harming animals in general. If someone chooses to not wear animal fibers that is their choice, but to condemn all use of animal fibers because of "factory farming" seems a bit extreme as there many animals raised in great conditions precisely for those fibers. If someone's issue is factory farming say that, don't denigrate the use of all animal fibers, become a more informed consumer and use fibers only from sources that treat their animals well and harvest fibers with kindness. If you choose to not use commercially produced fibers since you can't know their provenance, or because you choose not to, that is your choice but I am reading exceptional horror stories as justification, when they are just that exceptions. I live in a farming community and the farmers and ranchers I know just don't treat their animal like that.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes, there were some very disparaging remarks made about crude, rude, vulgar and ill bred in they way they interpreted other's views or comments.

The issue of "factory farming" let alone "vegan yarn" is also a personal choice. It you don't like that then express and live your convictions. To warp the conversation into a confusion of insulting vegans is also rude, crude, vulgar, ill bred and unintelligent.

Why unintelligent? Were there not nomadic beings that lived by daily subsistence needs--water, food and shelter that had no "boundaries" or physical constraints? Did not all religions then focus on explaining the need to carry out the traditions for what they perceived as daily survival?

That system did work well as the species expanded its range and multiplied, but it had its issues as well like what to do with one's body exposure. So off came the short lived vegetation "garments" and more durable items were introduced to the line--hides being one. Then by covering the tender skin of their feet they could accomplish even more of their hunter/gathering until BAM! There were far to many to do such a form of life style. So along came a more "civilized" and permanent life style and walls and structures like fences appeared with symbols showing where one could obtain the very best fibers being produced in these structures. OMG.....The start of the "factory" with people needing to go to work producing instead of going out and digging up some roots and fighting off other animals to get to the berries and nuts. Some even found a symbiotic relationship to the species and both prospered in the meantime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_(film)

If one had studied hard and kept an open mind to all potential information, they would learn to seek out like the species they would desire to return to. They would have known that what is being touted as being "new" turns out has been the bane of all the "civilized" societies over our brief existence here. The more "free time" these societies provided the more questioning and extreme points of view developed. Many not eating the insects and things that helped the originals produce us today so respect them and do not denigrate them for their dietary choices--thank goodness for the abundance available so one can maintain such life styles. FYI is has been known in the medical profession since it was first introduced that it is no different than the smoke and mirrors of their predecessors so when you have one touting something look more closely at the slant they are purporting, and they too might be part of the "factory" system trying to make a profit way more than the true benefit to the species. IMO it would have been "discovered" long ago that fats of any sort are a necessity in our systems to allow the vitamins etc. to get broken down and absorbed. If one truly looks at all the spinach has to offer that even cud chewing species cannot get all the benefits from then one needs to take steps to crush and expose the fiber/contents and "heavens" take it with FATs to allow the digestive tract to slow and process it more before expelling at least over 80% of all the beneficial elements.

As for the "industrial complex"/"capitalistic" system we all belong to then pick and choose more wisely your choices since the others did not have those available and stop the practice of not noticing that other's have their views as well as can express, just like you, all sorts of topics. What would happen if vegans were taken to the Super Bowl and for half time allowed to be eaten by savage beast which have ever right to exist as well as the vegetarian population expands into their territory to make more soy fields. If there is no blood on ones hands then you can humbly point that out to others--something about stones and sin but that was ignored since the more dense fibers clogged ones circulation. Which by the way is far worse than any worry about plaque which is normal process or the lack of substances to keep supportive structures of the body intact---  forgot there is a whole "factory" system for just that purpose and by the way not to worry as no other creature was harmed or used in their processing so one can have as many as one desires to be able to just move around. Do not forget, drugs are not harvested from plants, picked fresh and ripe (or gassed later to look like they were) nor covered with soy/corn products to make them more appealing and then vacuumed packed. They also affect other things besides the purported claims they "prevent".

As for beliefs, one can refer to the millennia of practices like those from the Far East and First Nations from whence they came to see that the cycle of life needs to be respected in order to fit in and survive. Otherwise, isolation and ignorance is the result and yes, there are still those that try that style until they get polluted by the infringement of others and contaminated by electronic knowledge.


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## bellagray (Nov 29, 2011)

this is how they get angora....https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=5171
not cruelty free at all.


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

Yesterday, I posted a generalized statement as to what a vegan/vegetarian was and some of their beliefs. Stating that one individual could have one or more of a combination of convictions. There were people posting with such accusations flying in every direction. I was not the one to mention factory farming practices. Nor would I discuss that topic on this site. There are farms... and sadly there are factory farms, two entirely different topics. Food for thought, without farms there would be no food. Environmental issues were brought up. I'm sure whom ever decides to go out to purchase a plant based yarn will have to get into a vehicle to get to the store.Yes, dietary fat is required to absorb essential vitamins needed in ones diet, the required fat would not be saturated fat. Even coconut fat is questionable. There are good and bad dietary fats. The question about plant based yarns was answered on the first page yesterday. It was a nice long list as to what is available, thank you for that. So why did this topic stretch out to 10 pages? Or more... Because of the use of the V- word (vegan). Hopefully, when this question comes up again (and it always does) it could be referred to as simply plant based yarns.


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

bellagray said:


> this is how they get angora....https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=5171
> not cruelty free at all.


So happy I don't have angora. I won't buy any!


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## cozyhomelife (Mar 14, 2013)

I think the clearest answer would have come from remembering we are actually on the INTERNET, and it would be a far better clear answer to have simply typed in a search for VEGAN YARNS and got clear answers, as asking non-vegans what they are is not really productive.

Now for the part that people just don't get. When you are in a group of people, and you already know they are a vast and different crowd, if you single out any group and say what little you know about them, judge them, find them guilty and pronounce them as hypocrits, you have just did an injustice to the people you have knitted and crocheted with all along, that felt like you were all friends. It doesn't matter if they are vegans, vegetarians, blacks, whites, asians, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gays, nuns, - it just doesn't matter! When the conversation becomes 'what's wrong wtih THOSE people' you are calling them on the carpet and judging them, because they are different from you. The need to label and judge is never a pretty thing. I also don't like to see vegans down on vegetarians, either one down on meat eaters. Respect for others is where true learning begins. There beliefs, whatever they are (unless illegal obviously) are personal and about their own feelings, not about whether they meet some criteria some other person is trying to attach to them and find them guilty. Pointing fingers, calling of names is a form of bullying... toward any group, not something that should take places amongst groups such as this, where any should feel welcome and all should be willing to recogize it is a big world and have respect for each other - this is where friendship blooms.

EDIT: I have removed a members name from the beginning, as I was trying to make a response to something she said that I was in agreement with, but my message was to all.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cozyhomelife said:


> Aranea, I think the clearest answer would have come from remembering we are actually on the INTERNET, and it would be a far better clear answer to have simply typed in a search for VEGAN YARNS and got clear answers, as asking non-vegans what they are is not really productive.
> 
> Now for the part that people just don't get. When you are in a group of people, and you already know they are a vast and different crowd, if you single out any group and say what little you know about them, judge them, find them guilty and pronounce them as hypocrits, you have just did an injustice to the people you have knitted and crocheted with all along, that felt like you were all friends. It doesn't matter if they are vegans, vegetarians, blacks, whites, asians, Christians, Jews, Muslims, gays, nuns, - it just doesn't matter! When the conversation becomes 'what's wrong wtih THOSE people' you are calling them on the carpet and judging them, because they are different from you. The need to label and judge is never a pretty thing. I also don't like to see vegans down on vegetarians, either one down on meat eaters. Respect for others is where true learning begins. There beliefs, whatever they are (unless illegal obviously) are personal and about their own feelings, not about whether they meet some criteria some other person is trying to attach to them and find them guilty. Pointing fingers, calling of names is a form of bullying... any group, not something that should take places amongst groups such as this, where any should feel welcome and all should be willing to recongize it is a big world and have respect for each others - this is where friendship blooms.


 Thank you for a balanced and sensible comment on this topic. Choice of one's diet is a personal choice, whether it is vegan, carnivore, omnivore, vegetarian, Halal, Kosher, gluten free, nightshade free, and on and on, and frequently based upon one's health, allergies (often genetically inherited) or epicurean pleasure. It is such hubris to try to impose one's own choice on other people. It is bullying when the attempt at imposing one's own choice consists of trying to lay guilt upon a person vis a vis what that person chooses to eat or to wear.


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## ARANEA (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't know who's bulling who here... as previously stated just forgo the labeling on both the yarn and the humans. Knit with whatever you choose. I wasn't the only person responding within these 11 pages posted. I'm done with this foolishness.


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## ohmunner (Aug 21, 2013)

This is a joke, right?


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## barbbfly (Oct 27, 2012)

for ex. in china angora rabbits are plucked like chickens to a red raw state of their skin - i mean all of the hair is gone and i'm sure they are in huge pain if they live -- - i cannot get the pic out of my head !! IN MY OPINION unless you know a local animal farm that has animals for yarn and you can check ?? just google merino sheep abuses/mulesing - i won't buy these kinds of yarn especially from those humungous sheep farms in australia - i am glad you want to ''learn to make an informed '' decision about these things.


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## Bombshellknits (Feb 2, 2013)

Years ago I use a Caron yarn called Eco,maybe. Really soft. Made from recycled drink bottles. I thought I was very hip. I quit using it because my Walmart keeps making their yarn section smaller and smaller. I need to find it on line.


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## barbbfly (Oct 27, 2012)

Bombshellknits said:


> Years ago I use a Caron yarn called Eco,maybe. Really soft. Made from recycled drink bottles. I thought I was very hip. I quit using it because my Walmart keeps making their yarn section smaller and smaller. I need to find it on line.


 WOW THAT SOUNDS COOL BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THE PLASTIC WOULD HAVE THAT BPH? IS IT TO HARM YOU ? oops caps


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## GemsByGranny (Dec 7, 2012)

mirl56 said:


> I bit off track, but this past week I was shopping for jacket. I came across a leather-looking coat with a tag that said it was "vegan leather." ????? What the heck is that??? further digging thru the coat lining I found it was 100% polyester!!!


It's polyester, in that case, not leather of any sort. There's no such thing as 'vegan leather'. Leather by definition comes from animals. One doesn't have to wear leather, but shouldn't try to fool ones-self by pretending it's a non-animal leather. One should say it like it is.


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## maomac (Oct 21, 2013)

FYI to those who are interested - I just came across this website. Perhaps it will help.

www.veganyarn.com


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