# Can you sell things from a FREE pattern



## wyze (Nov 3, 2013)

A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?

Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?

It's not even for profit, I want to make hats to raise money for the local age concern group, so the charity will be selling them.

I just wondered if there would be any come back if I did this? 

I'm uk based so does fair use come into play in my situation.


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## EqLady (Sep 1, 2011)

I would not think that would be a problem since you are not profiting from it. Even designers who charge for patterns are OK with giving it to a charity to sell, at least that has been my experience.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

UK Copyright Laws Official Website
http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

Near the bottom of the page is the contact info .... you could ask.
Intellectual Property Office


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## Kaiess (Jan 25, 2013)

Many designers put a statement at the bottom of the pattern to say that they are happy that items are sold as long as a link back to the designer is stated. This could be a notice on a stall or a note or card included with each item.


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## mrsbee03 (Jul 31, 2014)

Copyright applies to the written pattern, not to objects made from it, at least in the US. Not sure about laws in UK. However, I can't see a designer getting upset about a small quantity of items made for charity.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Copyright applies to the written pattern, not to objects made from it, at least in the US. Not sure about laws in UK. However, I can't see a designer getting upset about a small quantity of items made for charity.


many designers say you can't sell anythiing made from their pattern too. If you really want to know what a designer will allow, then contact the designer.

I know a booth at a craft show was shut down because someone was selling bags made from a pattern that said it was for personal use only and the designer of the pattern happened to go to that show.

guessing, or saying maybe, or I don't think is not the way to answer something like this. The real answer comes from the designer themselves, or the copyright laws.


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## ELareau (Nov 4, 2012)

I sell knitted items on etsy as well as make things for family, friends and charity. 

Of the items I sell, I will not use someone else's pattern - whether it was free or not. I know copyright applies to the written pattern only, but I respect that person's work in creating it. 

Ok, truth be told I seldom follow a pattern exactly anyway so feel I'd be ok selling anything - and I don't pay for patterns unless they happen to be in a magazine I've purchased - but I still respect the designer's work and don't sell work from their patterns.


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## GinB (Sep 2, 2012)

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
http://girlfromauntie.com/copyright/index.php/category/the-knitters-guide-to-copyright/
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-218800-1.html
http://knittingforprofit.com/blog/an-update-on-knitting-pattern-copyrights/

IF YOU FIND YOUR "STUFF" ON UNAUTHORIZED WEBSITES:
How to Write a DMCA Takedown Notice: http://www.thelaw.com/guide/ip/how-to-write-a-dmca-takedown-notice/


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## McOzzy72 (Jul 24, 2013)

I know in the USA you can sell the items if you include a card with each one such as:

Hand Knitted Item
Created Especially for you by

YOUR NAME

Produced from a pattern created by 

DESIGNERS NAME
Then website the pattern can be found.

you just cannot reproduce the pattern and hand it out with the item you have made


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

McOzzy72 said:


> I know in the USA you can sell the items if you include a card with each one such as:
> 
> Hand Knitted Item
> Created Especially for you by
> ...


even that will not protect you if the designer says you are not to sell things made from their pattern.


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## McOzzy72 (Jul 24, 2013)

chickkie said:


> even that will not protect you if the designer says you are not to sell things made from their pattern.


Well some designers will allow you to sell the items if you write and ask them.

Not all patterns say you cannot sell from them only a few that offer the pattern for a very small fee that I have found this problem


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

McOzzy72 said:


> Well some designers will allow you to sell the items if you write and ask them.
> 
> Not all patterns say you cannot sell from them only a few that offer the pattern for a very small fee that I have found this problem


that's why I said in a previous post, if you want to know what a designer will allow, contact the designer and ask.


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## mrsbee03 (Jul 31, 2014)

Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


Could you provide the citation? Where is it stated?
Cite the actual law, not a person's blog.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


Are you the lawyer for that designer?

I still say that the only way to know what a designer will allow is to contact the designer. Why are you being snarky about it.


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## attycasner (Apr 25, 2013)

chickkie said:


> even that will not protect you if the designer says you are not to sell things made from their pattern.


Designer do not create or enforce laws. They can say what they want but that does not make it a law. I once read a designer's comment that stated only one item could be made from her pattern. That is as stupid as saying you cannot use black yarn.

Furthermore reading the law is only the first step in arriving at a legal conclusion. Nonlawyers put too much weight on what they read and the conclusion that they draw from that reading. If reading were the only requirement I could have been a lawyer at a very young age and saved myself 4 years of college, 3 years of law school and tens of thousands of dollars.

Laws must be researched and they must be Sheppardized to make sure that the court of jurisdiction has not .ruled differently. Judges opinions vary greatly on any subject determined by what district they are in. California opinions for example are often very different than those issued in New York yet both are enforced in their jurisdiction.

Just enjoy your knitting.


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## mrsbee03 (Jul 31, 2014)

galaxycraft said:


> Could you provide the citation? Where is it stated?
> Cite the actual law, not a person's blog.


Well, that's pretty ignorant. I haven't even looked at a blog. I don't obtain information from blogs. And you can look up the law yourself. I'm out enjoying my day, not focusing on picking arguments over every word posted, as some LOVE to do on here. I may look it up later when I get home if I feel like it by then. But until then, feel free to do it yourself. 

......and that's why on Ravelry they always call this the CopyWRONG discussion. Same old thing, same answer people can't seem to accept....
:roll:

Enjoy your REAL weekend, everyone!


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

You seem to have arrived at the same conclusion I did after reading through the (very boring) US Copyright website. As someone else said, designers don't make the laws so it really doesn't matter what they say. For those that want to know what the law is, go to copyright.gov and read through it. It won't make you a lawyer but it will give you a little information.

Sorry to the original poster for sidetracking this thread. Your laws are different and really have nothing to do with the US laws.



mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.





galaxycraft said:


> Could you provide the citation? Where is it stated?
> Cite the actual law, not a person's blog.





mrsbee03 said:


> Well, that's pretty ignorant. I haven't even looked at a blog. I don't obtain information from blogs. And you can look up the law yourself. I'm out enjoying my day, not focusing on picking arguments over every word posted, as some LOVE to do on here. I may look it up later when I get home if I feel like it by then. But until then, feel free to do it yourself.
> 
> ......and that's why on Ravelry they always call this the CopyWRONG discussion. Same old thing, same answer people can't seem to accept....
> :roll:
> ...


Ah, so you really have no idea. This is the typical response when someone can not provide the proof to back up their claim.


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## MaggiMoonwytch (Jul 31, 2014)

wyze said:


> A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?
> 
> Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?
> 
> ...


Most pattern designers will say that you cannot use their patterns commercially. However I've done quite a lot of research on this topic around copyright, purely from interest as I don't sell things I make and they CANNOT stop you using the pattern to make items to sell. They will tell you otherwise but frankly they are telling porkies.

They are selling you the instructions to make something. The law says they have absolutely no say about what you do with the finished article. It's one of the reasons clothing manufacturers can rush copies of clothing items like the Duchess of Cambridge's or Princess Diana's wedding dresses onto the market.

What you CAN'T do is copy an item of clothing from a film or tv show and reference the show or film to market the item. For instance, you can make a copy of the Jayne hat from Firefly and you can sell it but you can't make any reference to the show at all.

It's probably polite to reference the designer but retail manufacturers never do so it's all a matter of preference.


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## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

But if someone buy the pattern they not allowed to sell copies of the patterns and in outside markets in uk they all selling pattern copies even in boat sales that is bad but whatever you knit from them that is your property you allowed to sell that but not allowed to make money by selling copies etc of the pattern but what you knit that is yours sell or wear it .


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## marianna mel (Sep 26, 2013)

As a designer I am always delighted when knitters ask my permission to do this - and I always agree. Although legally I could not prevent anyone from doing this - it is nice to be asked. Most of my designs are offered for free but it makes me happy to know how they are being used. By asking you are not only being polite but you are giving positive feedback to the designer. That's what makes us want to carry on offering patterns. Designing and writing instructions takes time - it's nice to know that they are valued and being used - especially for good causes. I wish you well. 
Marianna


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

Marianna - and that's why I keep saying, ask the designer.


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## marianna mel (Sep 26, 2013)

chickkie said:


> Marianna - and that's why I keep saying, ask the designer.


Thank you chickkie - the support of crafters like you is what makes it worthwhile


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## MaggiMoonwytch (Jul 31, 2014)

Mirror said:


> in outside markets in uk they all selling pattern copies even in boat sales that is bad


The issues around pattern copyright is a little less clear. If the pattern is still in copyright then you can't copy and sell it. However..... it's not that simple. There is a huge market in vintage patterns nowadays and many of them are photocopies or cleaned up and re-typed copies of patterns that have been scanned into a computer.

If a company wants to hold onto the copyright of a pattern they published, lets say in the 60's, then they have to renew the copyright. I've read somewhere that VOGUE for instance always retain ALL of their copyrights. If that's true, then you can't claim their patterns are out of copyright and in the public domain. This means you can't copy and sell them. But Vogue don't sell either yarn or fabric as far as I'm aware so they are making a lot of their income from their patterns.

Other pattern publishers make most of their money though from the yarns they sell that go with their patterns. If the yarn is discontinued, then they have no reason to hold onto the pattern copyright. It's knowing which patterns are still subject to copyright and which ones aren't. Lets face it, Sirdar aren't going to tell you are they. :lol: :lol:

If the patterns are in the public domain they are fair game and anyone can copy and sell them.


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## marianna mel (Sep 26, 2013)

MaggiMoonwytch said:


> If the patterns are in the public domain they are fair game and anyone can copy and sell them.


It is * illegal * to copy patterns whether they are free or paid for.

Selling items made from using them is an entirely different matter.


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## granker (Apr 3, 2012)

Pattern not sellable but product is yours to do with what you want. Most designers ask you give them credit for the pattern and where the pattern can be gotten.


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## mrsbee03 (Jul 31, 2014)

galaxycraft said:


> Ah, so you really have no idea. This is the typical response when someone can not provide the proof to back up their claim.


Yes, whatever you say. I know what comes of interactions with you from past experience, so I will not indulge your compulsive need to argue with absolutely everyone on here, especially since you are always right. It's fruitless and a huge waste of time. You are one of the few people that make this site far more unpleasant than it needs to be. Try to have a happy day without nitpicking at others on the internet.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

marianna mel said:


> As a designer I am always delighted when knitters ask my permission to do this - and I always agree. Although legally I could not prevent anyone from doing this - it is nice to be asked. Most of my designs are offered for free but it makes me happy to know how they are being used. By asking you are not only being polite but you are giving positive feedback to the designer. That's what makes us want to carry on offering patterns. Designing and writing instructions takes time - it's nice to know that they are valued and being used - especially for good causes. I wish you well.
> Marianna


 :thumbup:


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

MaggiMoonwytch said:


> Most pattern designers will say that you cannot use their patterns commercially. However I've done quite a lot of research on this topic around copyright, purely from interest as I don't sell things I make and they CANNOT stop you using the pattern to make items to sell. They will tell you otherwise but frankly they are telling porkies.
> 
> They are selling you the instructions to make something. The law says they have absolutely no say about what you do with the finished article. It's one of the reasons clothing manufacturers can rush copies of clothing items like the Duchess of Cambridge's or Princess Diana's wedding dresses onto the market.
> 
> ...


This is true. For more detail on this, you may want to read this:

http://copyknit.blogspot.com/


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## spinninggill (Apr 9, 2011)

Copyright law is sooo complicated. However in most cases it is the pattern itself that is the intellectual copyright of the designer,not the items made from it, as these are your creation. The copyright clause is intended to prevent people from selling the pattern as their own. It would be impossible to police all items made from one pattern. (Also a gift may be sold on without your knowledge!!)
Few people would argue with making for charity.


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## Moondancermel (Nov 18, 2012)

mrsbee03 said:


> Copyright applies to the written pattern, not to objects made from it, at least in the US. Not sure about laws in UK. However, I can't see a designer getting upset about a small quantity of items made for charity.


I am sure it is the same here. This is why I have stated that you can make and sell anything you like but don't sell the pattern or copy it and say it is your own work.

It is always a courtesy to state who designed a pattern you have used to make and sell items. In the case of charity I don't see this as a necessity unless it is sold online.


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## debbie pataky (Sep 12, 2014)

A lot let you sell as long as you give credit to designer: knitted by........designed by........


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## shirleyrothery (Dec 22, 2012)

wyze said:


> A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?
> 
> Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?
> 
> ...


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## Deboraj50 (Aug 29, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## BailaC (Sep 25, 2013)

mrsbee03 said:


> Copyright applies to the written pattern, not to objects made from it, at least in the US. Not sure about laws in UK. However, I can't see a designer getting upset about a small quantity of items made for charity.


I believe that is correct. However, if you use a pattern which says, in effect, that by using this pattern for free, you are contractually bound not to use for commercial purposes, then you can't. If the pattern doesn't say anything, then the copyright law doesn't prevent you from from selling a product made from the pattern.


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## ctrue (Dec 8, 2013)

I know that at craft fairs, people are selling all kinds of crafts made by themselves over the year but I doubt they created the pattern, probably bought or taken off the net. I don't think they give it a thought that they maybe doing anything wrong.


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## jditlin (Mar 13, 2011)

I found the information at this link interesting.

www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/


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## kristym (Nov 21, 2011)

http://library.osu.edu/blogs/copyright/2014/07/14/patterns-and-copyright-protections/
she is right...only the pattern itself may be protected, anything made from that pattern is free to sell for profit


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## kristym (Nov 21, 2011)

there's no copyright protection on usable items, like clothing and they like. They can only copyright their pattern, the writing itself and pictures and any drawings they may have done. A process or method of doing something cannot be copyrighted.


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## kristym (Nov 21, 2011)

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml

this article says it all


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## ctrue (Dec 8, 2013)

Good to know! My sister-law and myself are gearing up for a bazaar next Dec. so are getting as many hats, scarves, etc done this year as possible.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Every time a designer makes a pattern, they don't reinvent the wheel. I think many copyrighted patterns are barely changed patterns that have been around for years. If you don't copy a pattern exactly, then it's your design. I tweak almost every pattern I use, in one way or another.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Every time a designer makes a pattern, they don't reinvent the wheel.
> I think many copyrighted patterns are barely changed patterns that have been around for years.
> ...........
> If you don't copy a pattern exactly, then it's your design. I tweak almost every pattern I use, in one way or another.


US Copyright
http://copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission
Q - How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?

A - Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. 
Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent. 
See Circular 14, Copyright Registration for Derivative Works.
..........
UK Copyright
http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/copyright_myths
6. If I change someone elses work I can claim it as my own

The act of copying or adapting someone elses work is a restricted act. 
Any adaptation will be legally regarded as a derived work; so if you simply adapt the work of others, it will still be their work, and they have every right to object if publish such a work when they have not given you permission to do so. 
They are also entitled to reclaim any money you make from selling their work.

The only safe option is to create something that is not copied or adapted from the work of others, or seek the permission of the rights owner (you should expect to pay a fee and/or royalties for this).

There is nothing to stop you being inspired by the work of others, but when it comes to your own work, start with a blank sheet and do not try to copy what others have done.
- End Quote.
....................


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

ctrue said:


> I know that at craft fairs, people are selling all kinds of crafts made by themselves over the year but I doubt they created the pattern, probably bought or taken off the net. I don't think they give it a thought that they maybe doing anything wrong.


How many times has someone been to a church bazaar and seen knitted baby clothing for sale- I imagine very few, if any, were designed by the knitter.


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## shirleyrothery (Dec 22, 2012)

wyze said:


> A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?
> 
> Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?
> 
> ...


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## shirleyrothery (Dec 22, 2012)

I forgot to mention that if you search "machine knits for charity" there are a number sites offering free patterns for charity, therefore, no copyright problems. Hope this helps.


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## mac.worrall (Jun 24, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Every time a designer makes a pattern, they don't reinvent the wheel. I think many copyrighted patterns are barely changed patterns that have been around for years. If you don't copy a pattern exactly, then it's your design. I tweak almost every pattern I use, in one way or another.


Agreed

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## kristym (Nov 21, 2011)

Again...you cannot copyright anything BUT the pattern itself.
Anything you make from it is legally YOURS TO SELL.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

kristym said:


> Again...you cannot copyright anything BUT the pattern itself.
> Anything you make from it is legally YOURS TO SELL.


How about this? The pattern for SUMMERFLIES Shawl says
Note : This entire pattern and its design are subject to copyright. Upon download of this pattern you have agreed to use it for personal non- commercial only. Copies may not be distributed or sold. Items made from this pattern also may not be sold.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

GinB said:


> http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
> http://girlfromauntie.com/copyright/index.php/category/the-knitters-guide-to-copyright/
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-218800-1.html
> http://knittingforprofit.com/blog/an-update-on-knitting-pattern-copyrights/
> ...


www.tabberone.com has been cited many times before on this forum; however, if you read their disclaimer, you will learn that even they recommend that you contact a copyright attorney since they are not qualified to give legal advice on this subject. We tend to forget that anyone can say almost anything on the internet, but that does not make it reliable information.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

chickkie said:


> even that will not protect you if the designer says you are not to sell things made from their pattern.


Right on again, chickkie!!!


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

I think you'll find its quite legal over here , look on e.bay you will find many sell patterns from magazines also print them off & sell so it must be legal


wyze said:


> A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?
> 
> Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?
> 
> ...


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

valj46 said:


> I think you'll find its quite legal over here , look on e.bay you will find many sell patterns from magazines also print them off & sell so it must be legal


just because it's on eBay does not make it legal.


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## cavedwellersmum (Aug 14, 2013)

I was interested in this ( I only read the first page) I would have thought that the designer of the pattern was pretty limited in thier demands, Especially as the stuff I knit never turns out exactly anyway. I can understand not on selling or giving away thier actuall written pattern but the actual effort of jknitting it up is all mine from the wool I choose to use to any alterations I may feel the need ( or by accident) make


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

valj46 said:


> I think you'll find its quite legal over here , look on e.bay you will find many sell patterns from magazines also print them off & sell so it must be legal


The topic in question is if you can sell the finished product when you use someone else's pattern?
This is not the same as selling patterns on E-Bay.
Some sellers on E-bay are doing so legally, others are doing so illegally.
Just because someone else is doing it doesn't make it right, the correct assumption, or the correct interpretation of the law (if they are doing it illegally).


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


A former KP member who is a designer here in the US brought a copyright infringement lawsuit against someone who believed this and won a settlement large enough to pay her legal bills and buy a new home. It isn't a question of whether we like the answers or not, it's a question of realizing that copyright laws are complex and it isn't wise to decide you know better than the lawyers who specialize in this area. People famously guess about these laws and/or decide what they want to believe regardless of the facts. Sometimes it backfires and becomes extremely expensive.


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## kanddmom (Apr 2, 2013)

galaxycraft said:


> US Copyright
> http://copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission
> Q - How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
> 
> ...


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## valj46 (Jul 25, 2011)

As the people who sell these patterns have been on e.bay for a few years i think they would have been thrown off the site by now , e.bay u.k has tightened up the past year, 


chickkie said:


> just because it's on eBay does not make it legal.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Every time a designer makes a pattern, they don't reinvent the wheel. I think many copyrighted patterns are barely changed patterns that have been around for years.
> If you don't copy a pattern exactly, then it's your design. I tweak almost every pattern I use, in one way or another.





galaxycraft said:


> US Copyright
> http://copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#permission
> Q - How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
> 
> ...





kanddmom said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > US Copyright
> ...


And that is what my quote reference referred to ---- THE PRINTED WRITTEN MATERIAL; As that is what the person I was responding to had stated that she/he could change just but a little and call it her/his own......which is not true.


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## Briallu (Dec 4, 2012)

I used to design National Doll costumes for the magazine Doll world a few years ago and I would never object to anyone knitting those to sell for profit but what I would object to is anyone selling the patterns under their name.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

valj46 said:


> As the people who sell these patterns have been on e.bay for a few years i think they would have been thrown off the site by now , e.bay u.k has tightened up the past year,


E-Bay does not do the "throwing" --- 
They have to hear from the copyright holder with the proper documentation before E-Bay will pull the plug on violators. 
It is in their terms of use.

And it also depends on other factors for which I will not get into here as this discussion has come up many many times here on the forum. 
Just put in the search box "copyright" and you can read through them at your leisure.


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## grannysk (Nov 7, 2011)

mrsbee03 said:


> Again, copyright applies ONLY to the written pattern, not to objects made from it. US copyright law--look it up. No matter how much designers would like the law to cover the created objects from a pattern, it will not. Like I said, I don't know how this works in other countries, but like it or not, it is how it goes in the US. I don't know why a craft booth was shut down in Canada, but it probably was a decision by the show managers as a courtesy to the designer. But as I clearly stated, I am only speaking for what is allowed in the US. Sorry if you don't like that answer.


I wish it was so - but a US designer whose patterns I really like states that she doesn't want items sold that are made from her patterns and her patterns are not sold for a nominal fee! So I will admire her patterns but not buy any - I need to sell to recover costs so that I can keep on knitting.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

I'm with Chickkie. Contact the designer and ask permission. I've never been turned down by a designer for making items to be sold for charity.

I have had a designer tell me that her policy for making items with her pattern is limited to 3--even if they are given to family members as gifts. After that she wants a fee for each item made. The pattern was $7 and she wants $3 for each additional item (after 3) made from it. I have no idea if she has the law behind her, but I only made 2 items from that pattern. I won't buy patterns from her again.

I am not a lawyer. I have read many things regarding copyright that are in conflict with one another. My policy is to communicate with the designer in writing (email) and save the written response.


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## Mirror (Jun 23, 2014)

People are making things complicated when you buy the pattern you can knit and sell but you can't sell the pattern because the rights reserved by the person who owns it .


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> E-Bay does not do the "throwing" ---
> They have to hear from the copyright holder with the proper documentation before E-Bay will pull the plug on violators.
> It is in their terms of use.
> 
> ...


As always, galaxycraft, you remain the researcher of the decade. Kudos to you for that, you're very thorough and reliable.

Regarding reading past discussions, anyone attempting that should be aware that it will take many hours ;~D!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Artbarn said:


> I'm with Chickkie. Contact the designer and ask permission. I've never been turned down by a designer for making items to be sold for charity.
> 
> I have had a designer tell me that her policy for making items with her pattern is limited to 3--even if they are given to family members as gifts. After that she wants a fee for each item made. The pattern was $7 and she wants $3 for each additional item (after 3) made from it. I have no idea if she has the law behind her, but I only made 2 items from that pattern. I won't buy patterns from her again.
> 
> I am not a lawyer. I have read many things regarding copyright that are in conflict with one another. My policy is to communicate with the designer in writing (email) and save the written response.


Stick with your policy; it will keep you out of trouble (and lawsuits).


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Mirror said:


> People are making things complicated when you buy the pattern you can knit and sell but you can't sell the pattern because the rights reserved by the person who owns it .


If you think we're making things complicated, wait until the copyright attorneys come into your life.....


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## sarah66 (Sep 26, 2011)

chickkie said:


> just because it's on eBay does not make it legal.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

Does the designer invent all new stitches? No. Many of the patterns they incorporate into their designs were made by someone else. Do they give that designer credit for the stitch pattern? No, they do not. 

No matter how many times you say it, that does not make it true. You can make what you want and sell what you want. 

Buying a pattern is not a contract.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

gina said:


> Does the designer invent all new stitches? No. Many of the patterns they incorporate into their designs were made by someone else. Do they give that designer credit for the stitch pattern? No, they do not.
> 
> No matter how many times you say it, that does not make it true. You can make what you want and sell what you want.
> 
> Buying a pattern is not a contract.


It isn't the stitches that are copyrighted. It's the manner in which they are arranged.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

gina said:


> Buying a pattern is not a contract.


Buying or using a free pattern --- you are under a contract by simply downloading it and abiding by the copyright laws of the lands.
The designer is giving you limited rights to use of the pattern.

Example from Cascade Yarns ---
http://www.cascadeyarns.com/patterns_info.asp
License

Cascade Yarns, Inc. (Cascade Yarns) may from time to time provide patterns for download through its website or its authorized retail sellers (Patterns). 
Cascade Yarns grants you a non-exclusive, revocable, limited license to download and use a single instance of each of the Patterns solely for your own personal and non-commercial purposes. 
You may not sell, sublicense, distribute or otherwise allow any third party to use the Patterns. 
Cascade Yarns reserves all rights embodied in the Patterns not expressly granted by this license.


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## kanddmom (Apr 2, 2013)

Here is the link to a 2012 article in Vogue by a lawyer.

http://www.vogueknitting.com/magazine/article_archive/ask_a_lawyer_knitting_and_copyright.aspx


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## julietremain (Jul 8, 2011)

Thank you galaxycraft and SAMkewel for being the reliable voices of reason in this discussion....
Julie


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

kanddmom said:


> Here is the link to a 2012 article in Vogue by a lawyer.
> 
> http://www.vogueknitting.com/magazine/article_archive/ask_a_lawyer_knitting_and_copyright.aspx


This is an excellent article, which pretty much confirms what little I know about copyright. I will continue to contact the designer or copyright holder whenever I'm unsure.


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Buying or using a free pattern --- you are under a contract by simply downloading it and abiding by the copyright laws of the lands.
> The designer is giving you limited rights to use of the pattern.
> 
> Example from Cascade Yarns ---
> ...


There's a lawyer on here. Let him/her answer it. I still say it's not a contract. There is offer and acceptance, but no consideration on a free pattern.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

gina said:


> There's a lawyer on here. Let him/her answer it. I still say it's not a contract. There is offer and acceptance, but no consideration on a free pattern.


Guess what I am holding.  :XD:


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

Artbarn said:


> I have had a designer tell me that her policy for making items with her pattern is limited to 3--even if they are given to family members as gifts. After that she wants a fee for each item made. The pattern was $7 and she wants $3 for each additional item (after 3) made from it. I have no idea if she has the law behind her, but I only made 2 items from that pattern. I won't buy patterns from her again.


Oh my goodness, no no no, there is no such thing. Have you ever heard of a restriction on a recipe in a cookbook? As in, you can only make it 3 times. After that, you have to purchase the recipe again. Or even a novel. Has anyone ever said you can only read a novel 3 times, then you have to buy it again in order to read it again? LoL!!! It just goes to show that people will say the weirdest things. It sounds as if she's trying to steal money from her customers. I would not do business with a thief. Furthermore, I would make 10 of the items and send her pictures because I'm just that old and cranky. :lol:


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

gina said:


> There's a lawyer on here. Let him/her answer it. I still say it's not a contract. There is offer and acceptance, but no consideration on a free pattern.


You can continue to say whatever you wish. It never fails to amaze me that folks will believe whatever at someone else's expense. My suggestion to all of you who don't wish to honor copyright laws is that you stop using other people's patterns and make up your own, doing all of your own math, time, designing skills, etc. Then perhaps you will get the picture as to why it isn't right to take some other person's work and give it away or sell it at will.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

cah said:


> Oh my goodness, no no no, there is no such thing. Have you ever heard of a restriction on a recipe in a cookbook? As in, you can only make it 3 times. After that, you have to purchase the recipe again. Or even a novel. Has anyone ever said you can only read a novel 3 times, then you have to buy it again in order to read it again? LoL!!! It just goes to show that people will say the weirdest things. It sounds as if she's trying to steal money from her customers. I would not do business with a thief. Furthermore, I would make 10 of the items and send her pictures because I'm just that old and cranky. :lol:


You are comparing apples and oranges here. You may make any pattern 100 times and wear it yourself until the cows come home, but you cannot sell other people's work regardless of how old or cranky you are. It isn't the designer who is the thief here, it is those who want to sell his/her design, cashing in on his/her time, math skills, designing skills, marketing abilities, etc., as if it was free for the taking. Why don't you try doing it all yourself to put food on your table and see how your feelings change about it? You will quickly grasp why there are copyright laws. As in any other instance where people steal from others, there are those who will get away with it, but that will never make it right. If you think it does, I'm sure there are things you own that the rest of us could use whether you consent or not. Or we could just pawn it and grab the money.....


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## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

wyze said:


> A lot of patterns show non commercial use clauses, but there are a few good free patterns out there that do not have this clause?
> 
> Would there be a problem if I created and sold items based on one of these free patterns or should I always get written permission?
> 
> ...


The answer is yes. You just can't sell the pattern. Can you sell cookies made from a Betty Crocker Cookie Mix? Yes!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Guess what I am holding.  :XD:


What? I'm too tired from trying to be rational on this and similar threads ;~D.


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I give up. Those that don't agree with copyright issues are just promoting stealing, and I want nothing to do with that.

If a designer's pattern says you can't sell the pattern or the finished product I just refrain from buying that pattern. I would never tell someone to go ahead and buy it and make as many items as they wanted just to rub it in the face of the designer.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

gypsie said:


> The answer is yes. You just can't sell the pattern. Can you sell cookies made from a Betty Crocker Cookie Mix? Yes!


Actually, you CAN sell the pattern as long as you don't keep a copy. Copy rights belong to the designer. That means that no one else has a right to copy it in order to gain financially. If you wish to sell your interest in the pattern without copying it first, that's up to you.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

chickkie said:


> I give up. Those that don't agree with copyright issues are just promoting stealing, and I want nothing to do with that.
> 
> If a designer's pattern says you can't sell the pattern or the finished product I just refrain from buying that pattern. I would never tell someone to go ahead and buy it and make as many items as they wanted just to rub it in the face of the designer.


I feel your pain. There are none so blind as those who will not see, eh? I don't know why I bother to get involved with these discussions. Someday, some designer will get really ticked off and take a whole bunch of copyright infringement perps to court, probably after getting their locations from this forum so they'll know where to start looking. And you, galaxiecraft, a few others, and I will enjoy every minute of it. Then said designer can retire in luxury.


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

SAMkewel said:


> What? I'm too tired from trying to be rational on this and similar threads ;~D.


Well, that explains why you're no longer rational.  My conclusions were drawn from reading the copyright.gov website. Where did yours come from? Because nothing you're saying was ever on that website.

I have come to my own conclusions based on the law. They aren't likely to change unless the law changes.


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## cah (Oct 2, 2014)

chickkie said:


> I would never tell someone to go ahead and buy it and make as many items as they wanted just to rub it in the face of the designer.


Who did that?


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## ThaisFindsafeather (Nov 15, 2012)

In the states, if it's free and there is no clause against selling, if you credit the designer on the tab you can get away with it, but I highly recommend contacting the designer to ask for written permission for your own protection.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

cah said:


> Well, that explains why you're no longer rational.  My conclusions were drawn from reading the copyright.gov website. Where did yours come from? Because nothing you're saying was ever on that website.
> 
> I have come to my own conclusions based on the law. They aren't likely to change unless the law changes.


I'm done. Believe whatever you wish.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Illegal to sell the pattern for "financial gain" is only a small part of Copyright Infringement. 
The Copyright Holder has full control of the written pattern, be it in the form of a book/booklet, ebook, pdf, document, or website.
The Copyright Holder is the only one to state whether their work is for sale or free --- whichever way --- it is still under copyright protection.
The Copyright Holder is the only entity authorized by law to distribute their work in whatever form they choose.
The Copyright Holder Can pull their work from the public mainstream whenever they so choose.
Whatever copies are out there when this occurs, the copyright laws are still binding upon those copies that individuals had obtained prior to the copyright holder pulling it from the mainstream.
Copyright Duration is 70+/- years AFTER the designers/publishers death (which can be renewable).


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## gypsie (May 28, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

I sell things I've made from available patterns and all I do is make a couple of changes to the patterns so the pattern is then exclusively mine. Besides, have you ever heard of anyone being prosecuted for selling items from someone's pattern? I would also question whether the person really went to the trouble and expense to obtain an official, governmental copyrite. I am not going to give you legal advice, but I will sum up by saying I don't worry about it.


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## kristym (Nov 21, 2011)

I think every one should stop discussion and do what they like. But legally it is OK to make whatever you want and sell it from any recipe, pattern, or blueprint you like. I am done with this stupid debate. The law is the law, and I will make and sell whatever i like whenever i want to legally.


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

Three Cheers!!!! Your response is right on.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> I sell things I've made from available patterns and all I do is make a couple of changes to the patterns so the pattern is then exclusively mine. Besides, have you ever heard of anyone being prosecuted for selling items from someone's pattern? I would also question whether the person really went to the trouble and expense to obtain an official, governmental copyrite. I am not going to give you legal advice, but I will sum up by saying I don't worry about it.


Well you could ask Alan Dart, Jean Greenhowe, Elizabeth Zimmerman's Heirs, and other well know designers if they have registered their works. I personally know many have, and they have also prosecuted.

Walt Disney is very active watching their investments.

There are many not so famous designers who do indeed register their works.
It doesn't cost all that much to do so.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

I'm also out of this debate. There is way too much misinformation being posted. Again, I'm with Chickkie and also SAMkewel, who have made the most common-sense comments here.


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## dearyou37 (Jul 6, 2014)

SAMkewel said:


> A former KP member who is a designer here in the US brought a copyright infringement lawsuit against someone who believed this and won a settlement large enough to pay her legal bills and buy a new home. It isn't a question of whether we like the answers or not, it's a question of realizing that copyright laws are complex and it isn't wise to decide you know better than the lawyers who specialize in this area. People famously guess about these laws and/or decide what they want to believe regardless of the facts. Sometimes it backfires and becomes extremely expensive.


If this is true, I'm guessing the defendant was mass producing items made from the designer's pattern on a large scale, probably at a wholesale level. I highly doubt one could win enough in damages against a single person knitting items on his or her own by hand to buy a house. There is a huge difference between an individual knitting items on their own and selling them on Etsy or at a craft fair, and an entity such as a corporation mass producing an individual's design and selling the manufactured items wholesale to other businesses to sell.

I can't imagine a lawyer even taking a copyright case against a single person who was making and selling the items on their own. There's precedent for companies, American Apparel is an example I think, stealing from designers and mass marketing the designs, but it just doesn't compare to an individual knitting and selling items themself.

Also, there's the matter of _proving_ the item being sold was made from a specific pattern. Designers reverse engineer, mimic, and imitate other designer's designs all the time. The person could very easily say they saw the design and made their own version of it. Proving, without any doubt, that they actually sat down with the designer's pattern and followed it would be incredibly difficult. And I don't think that would count as a derivative work. Just look at the now infamous Pringle Sweater. Pringle of Scotland made a cabled sweater that appeared in Vogue, I believe. Victoria's Secret produced and sold their own version. Phildar and Lion Brand both put out patterns for their own versions, and Phildar sold their version while Lion Brand originally sold but now offers theirs for free. There may be small differences from the original, but it's obvious they were all derived from the Pringle original.


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> It isn't the stitches that are copyrighted. It's the manner in which they are arranged.


This link gives the email reply from the Copyright Office that was posted by a knitter on Ravelry. It's well worth reading.

http://copyknit.blogspot.com/


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## laceluvr (Feb 16, 2012)

cah said:


> Well, that explains why you're no longer rational.  My conclusions were drawn from reading the copyright.gov website. Where did yours come from? Because nothing you're saying was ever on that website.
> 
> I have come to my own conclusions based on the law. They aren't likely to change unless the law changes.


I agree with you cah.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

laceluvr said:


> This link gives the email reply from the Copyright Office that was posted by a knitter on Ravelry. It's well worth reading.
> 
> http://copyknit.blogspot.com/


I know I said I was done, but I think something needs to be clarified. This copyright information refers to clothing only. I am a somewhat new knitter, but I have been designing jewelry and doing decorative painting for many years. My experience with copyrights has always been in relation to artwork. Quite honestly, I'm surprised that knitting is not considered to be artwork.


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## dearyou37 (Jul 6, 2014)

Artbarn said:


> I know I said I was done, but I think something needs to be clarified. This copyright information refers to clothing only. I am a somewhat new knitter, but I have been designing jewelry and doing decorative painting for many years. My experience with copyrights has always been in relation to artwork. Quite honestly, I'm surprised that knitting is not considered to be artwork.


Well, it can be considered artwork. The link mentioned images knitted into knitwear, and how some toys may be considered sculpture, both of which can be copyrighted.


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## bagibird (Sep 30, 2012)

You know what, ladies and gentlemen? Who cares if a designer says you can or can't sell items made from their pattern? Just move on - look around on the internet, and you will almost ALWAYS be able to find a better, cheaper (or even free) pattern without the restrictions. So why fret about the designer who is frightened that you might make a few pence from your hard work and talent, having paid for their pattern? Just don't buy it. My money, my choice. That pattern will be there unsold long after I've made something that pleases me just as much. Even if it's a free pattern with restrictions, there will always be another- restriction free- just a couple of clicks of the mouse away.

I once asked a designer if I could sell an item made from her pattern and she said that I couldn't because my work may not be "up to her standard". Breathtaking arrogance! I could pay my money to buy her pattern, make it up and wear it or give it away, telling everyone who designed the item, so her argument about my workmanship was not only insulting but fallacious. Did I buy the pattern? Do you need to ask?


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Illegal to sell the pattern for "financial gain" is only a small part of Copyright Infringement.
> The Copyright Holder has full control of the written pattern, be it in the form of a book/booklet, ebook, pdf, document, or website.
> The Copyright Holder is the only one to state whether their work is for sale or free --- whichever way --- it is still under copyright protection.
> The Copyright Holder is the only entity authorized by law to distribute their work in whatever form they choose.
> ...


The Copyright Holder's right to pulling the item from the mainstream at any time is a new one to me and provides the answer to some questions I've had in my own mind about that. The rest of this is pretty much what my understanding has been and is. Thank you, galaxycraft. In case anyone has the idea that because Admin doesn't intervene, please, for your own protection, read the forum rules about their stance on this and other issues. Those can be found under "Help," above. You will find that they are covered but you stand alone on many issues and are responsible for your own stance and behavior.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> The Copyright Holder's right to pulling the item from the mainstream at any time is a new one to me and provides the answer to some questions I've had in my own mind about that. The rest of this is pretty much what my understanding has been and is. Thank you, galaxycraft. .


Maybe I should clarify just a bit further.
If the pattern is lets say on Ravelry (for sale or free) and the designer decides to shut it down, pull the pattern from the mainstream availability (mark it as no longer available) - they have the right to do so.
The people that have received the pattern prior - still has it, and the copyright laws are still binding on that pattern for the duration of 70+/- years AFTER the death of the designer/publisher.

Pulling a pattern and making it unavailable does not give anyone the legal right to copy/copy and paste/distribute, share, e-mail, snail-mail copies, post on forums,blogs, etc.; without prior written permission from the Copyright Holder to do so.
It has not hit the age of "public domain".
The Copyright Holder is the only entity allowed to distribute.

Mary Maxim patterns is an example of this.
The company had "retired" many patterns, and then recently taken them out of retirement and they are back in the mainstream for purchase.


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

cah said:


> Oh my goodness, no no no, there is no such thing. Have you ever heard of a restriction on a recipe in a cookbook? As in, you can only make it 3 times. After that, you have to purchase the recipe again. Or even a novel. Has anyone ever said you can only read a novel 3 times, then you have to buy it again in order to read it again? LoL!!! It just goes to show that people will say the weirdest things. It sounds as if she's trying to steal money from her customers. I would not do business with a thief. Furthermore, I would make 10 of the items and send her pictures because I'm just that old and cranky. :lol:


Or Play a CD only 3 times or watch a DVD only 3 times. that designer is so full of herself that she's insane.


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

gina said:


> Or Play a CD only 3 times or watch a DVD only 3 times. that designer is so full of herself that she's insane.


This was a beadweaving pattern, not a knitting pattern. At the time I posted about it, I didn't realize that there were different rules for clothing.


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## Nodaker (Oct 20, 2014)

What Is a Copyright?
Copyright is a form of protection provided to the authors of original works of authorship including literary,
dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works, both published and unpublished. The 1976
Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to reproduce the copyrighted work,
to prepare derivative works, to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work, to perform the
copyrighted work publicly, or to display the copyrighted work publicly.
The copyright protects the form of expression rather than the subject matter of the writing. For example, a
description of a machine could be copyrighted, but this would only prevent others from copying the description;
it would not prevent others from writing a description of their own or from making and using the machine.
Copyrights are registered by the Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.


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## Nodaker (Oct 20, 2014)

from: http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/edu-inf/BasicPatentGuide.pdf

(I hit send by mistake, before I was finished)
That line about the description of the machine being protected but not making and using the description of the machine seems to imply we can make and use patterns - just not copy them.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> Maybe I should clarify just a bit further.
> If the pattern is lets say on Ravelry (for sale or free) and the designer decides to shut it down, pull the pattern from the mainstream availability (mark it as no longer available) - they have the right to do so.
> The people that have received the pattern prior - still has it, and the copyright laws are still binding on that pattern for the duration of 70+/- years AFTER the death of the designer/publisher.
> 
> ...


I understand. There have been some who have said that patterns are in public domain upon the death of the Copyright holder; I didn't think that was the case since there are usually heirs with inheritance rights. There have also been those who seemed to think the Copyright holder had no right to pull the pattern from mainstream availability and I didn't know what the law said about that; I do know that it has happened, however. Thanks again. That clarifies it for me :~).


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## kmangal16 (Mar 26, 2013)

marianna mel said:


> As a designer I am always delighted when knitters ask my permission to do this - and I always agree. Although legally I could not prevent anyone from doing this - it is nice to be asked. Most of my designs are offered for free but it makes me happy to know how they are being used. By asking you are not only being polite but you are giving positive feedback to the designer. That's what makes us want to carry on offering patterns. Designing and writing instructions takes time - it's nice to know that they are valued and being used - especially for good causes. I wish you well.
> Marianna


Hi Marianna, I absolutely love your designs and should explain that I have sold the items I have made to raise money for charity (I apologise for not requesting your permission first), however, I do enclose a note with the items that I make, referring back to you, as the designer and also giving the link to your patterns on Ravelry. I hope this is acceptable. Kindest regards, Sheila.


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## marianna mel (Sep 26, 2013)

kmangal16 said:


> Hi Marianna, I absolutely love your designs and should explain that I have sold the items I have made to raise money for charity (I apologise for not requesting your permission first), however, I do enclose a note with the items that I make, referring back to you, as the designer and also giving the link to your patterns on Ravelry. I hope this is acceptable. Kindest regards, Sheila.


Sell sell sell Sheila - and I hope you make lots of money for your chosen charity. You have done nothing wrong - on the contrary you are doing your bit to make the world a better place. There is no problem selling items you have made from knitting patterns.

What makes me really mad is when people copy and paste my instructions and put them openly on forums or facebook pages. This IS illegal. Sites can be - and have been - closed down for this. Some people wrongly think that if the pattern is free that this is OK. Not so. If you want to share a pattern you should share the link not the pattern itself.

I hope you continue in what you do Sheila - you make the world a better place by helping those you can. :-D


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## kmangal16 (Mar 26, 2013)

marianna mel said:


> Sell sell sell Sheila - and I hope you make lots of money for your chosen charity. You have done nothing wrong - on the contrary you are doing your bit to make the world a better place. There is no problem selling items you have made from knitting patterns.
> 
> What makes me really mad is when people copy and paste my instructions and put them openly on forums or facebook pages. This IS illegal. Sites can be - and have been - closed down for this. Some people wrongly think that if the pattern is free that this is OK. Not so. If you want to share a pattern you should share the link not the pattern itself.
> 
> I hope you continue in what you do Sheila - you make the world a better place by helping those you can. :-D


Thank you Marianna, good to know I have your go-ahead. Everyone just loves your little top down design.


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## ginafranks (Nov 14, 2012)

As far as I am aware there is absolutely no reason why you can't use this pattern for selling on.


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