# FF Wearing Denim and Pearls #12



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Join the club. The Be-Good-Tomorrow-Or-The-Next-Day Club. I just came home from lunch from a friend. Tried to be good - angel hair pasta in red sauce. Didn't know red sauce was hot! To fix it, they gave me alfredo sauce to add. It fixed it just fine!! :mrgreen:
> 
> Then - a little shopping at Michael's followed by Barnes and Noble chocolate cheesecake from Cheesecake Factory. I am so bad. So very, very bad.
> 
> ...


Shopping makes one ravenous. You needed all those calories to replace those burned when shopping. It happens to me all the time.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Sure would like to see it happen. Along with 50% plus of the American people. And that percentage will go up in January.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD:


They said that it is the worst piece of legislation in 50 years. People are going to try to fight it. Just heard a report on it (NPR). As we speak it is going ahead, but we shall see.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

This Senator is on the correct path (I'm keeping my eye on him. I do worry about his voice and look but sure do love his words).






Time for Boxer to hang up her gloves and retire from the ring.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

My first slow cooker arrived today - now I just need to decide what to make first.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

You might take a peek at our happy place (R.)- no posts for a few days and someone over there could use some encouragement.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Shopping makes one ravenous. You needed all those calories to replace those burned when shopping. It happens to me all the time.


Thank you! I knew there was a good reason. :-D


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gun control proposals hardly draconian

By Kathleen Parker,January 11, 2013


Unlike many who recently have joined the debate about gun rights, I have a long history with guns, which I proffer only in the interest of preempting the elitist, liberal, swine, prostitute, blahblahblah charge.

I grew up in a home with guns, lots of them, and was taught early how to shoot, care for firearms and treat them respectfully. My fathers rules were simple: Never point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them; if you intend to shoot, aim to kill.



Dear ol Dad was a law-and-order guy  a lawyer, judge and World War II veteran who did everything by the book  except when it came to guns. Most memorable among his many lectures was a confidence: There is only one law in the land that I would break, he told me. I will never register my guns.


I suppose if he hadnt also opposed bumper stickers, he might have attached the one about cold dead fingers to his fender. He also might have liked a slogan I read recently: With guns, we are citizens; without them, we are subjects.



By todays standards my father would be considered a gun nut, but his sentiments were understandable in the context of his time. Like others of his generation, he had witnessed Germanys disarming of its citizenry and the consequences thereafter. Thus, the slippery slope of which gun-rights advocates speak is not without precedent or reason.

But the history of gun-control laws is not without contradictions and ironies that belie the current insistence that guns-without-controls is the ipso facto of originalist America. In fact, the federal government of our Founders made gun ownership mandatory for white males, while denying others  slaves and later freedmen  the privilege.

Today, the most vociferous defenders of gun rights tend to be white, rural males who oppose any regulation. But theirs was once the ardently held position of radical African Americans. Notably, in the 1960s, Black Panthers Bobby Seale and Huey Newton toted guns wherever they went to make a point: Blacks needed guns to protect themselves in a country that wasnt quite ready to enforce civil rights.

In one remarkable incident in May 1967, as recounted in The Atlantic by UCLA law professor Adam Winkler, 24 men and six women, all armed, ascended the California capitol steps, read a proclamation about gun rights and proceeded inside  with their guns, which was legal at the time.

Needless to say, conservatives, including then-Gov. Ronald Reagan, were suddenly very, very interested in gun control. That afternoon, Reagan told reporters there was no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.


The degree of ones allegiance to principle apparently depends mainly on who is holding the gun.

While black activists were adamant about their right to protect themselves, the National Rifle Association wasnt much interested in the constitutional question until the mid-70s, when an organizational split produced a new leader, Harlon Carter, who was dedicated to advocacy and determined to dig a deep line in the Beltway sand.

The Second Amendment debate about what the Founders intended was clarified in 2008 when theSupreme Court in District of Columbia v. Heller determined that the right of the people to keep and bear arms included individuals, not just a well-regulated militia. However, as Winkler pointed out, Justice Antonin Scalias opinion left wiggle room for exceptions, including prohibitions related to felons and the mentally ill. Scalia was not casting doubt, the justice wrote, on laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

This still leaves open the loophole of private sales that do not require background checks, which President Obama wants to close. We will hear more about this in coming weeks, but the call meanwhile to ban assault weapons or limit magazines in the wake of the horrific mass murder of children and others at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut is hardly draconian. It wont solve the problem of mentally disturbed people exacting weird justice from innocents, but it might limit the toll. Having to stop ones rampage to reload rather breaks the spell, or so one would imagine.

One also imagines that the old Reagan would say theres no reason a citizen needs an assault weapon or a magazine that can destroy dozens of people in minutes. He would certainly be correct and, in a sane world, possibly even electable.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Starbucks: no more guns in our stores
Coffee chain reverses policy on customers bringing firearms into US outlets where permitted by local laws

Starbucks chairman Howard Schultz said the company's 'open-carry' policy had been hijacked on both sides of the gun control debate. Photograph: Alfred Cheng Jin/Reuters
Starbucks has reversed its stance on customers carrying guns into its US stores, calling on them to leave them at home instead.
The coffee chain's chief executive, Howard Schultz, requested on Tuesday that the coffee chain's customers leave their firearms at home, shifting company policy amid an increasingly fractious debate over US gun rights in the wake of multiple mass shootings.

The request was made in part because more people had been bringing guns into Starbucks over the last six months, prompting confusion and dismay among some patrons and employees, Schultz said.

In an open letter to customers issued late on Tuesday, he said: "Our stores exist to give every customer a safe and comfortable respite from the concerns of daily life."

Starbucks' longstanding policy had been to default to local gun laws, including "open carry" regulations that allow people to bring guns into stores. It has nearly 7,000 company-operated US stores.
That policy had frustrated US gun-control advocates, who have persuaded many other restaurants and retailers to ban weapons in their stores and worked hard to get Starbucks to follow suit.

Schultz underscored that Starbucks' new policy is not a ban  employees will continue to serve patrons with guns. The request also does not apply to authorised law enforcement personnel.

"I don't want to put our people in a position of having to confront or enforce a policy [when] someone is holding a gun," Schultz said.

The Seattle-based company's request that customers not bring visible or concealed guns into stores and outdoor seating areas likely will anger guns-rights advocates, who in August held a national Starbucks Appreciation Day to thank the company for its stance at that time.

Locations for those events included the Starbucks in Newtown, Connecticut  the town where 20 children and six educators were shot to death in an elementary school in December. Starbucks closed that shop before the event was scheduled to begin.
Schultz said the Starbucks Appreciation Day events "disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of 'open carry.' To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores," he said in the open letter.

Schultz said the policy change was not the result of that event, which prompted the Newtown Action Alliance to call on Schultz to ban guns at all of the company's US stores. Nor was it in response to the mass shootings this week at the Washington navy yard.

"We've seen the 'open carry' debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening," Schultz wrote, noting that "some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction", at times soliciting and confronting employees and patrons.

He told Reuters: "We found ourselves in a position where advocates on both sides of the issue were using Starbucks as a staging ground for their own political position.

"I'm not worried we're going to lose customers over this," Schultz said, noting he and others at Starbucks considered the concerns of customers, employees and investors. "I feel like I've made the best decision in the interest of our company."


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Random shooting of Australian expat reignites US gun control debate
ELEANOR HALL: Now to the apparently random shooting of a young Australian living in the United States which has shattered his family and again raises the question of gun control.

22-year-old Chris Lane was out jogging in the state of Oklahoma when three teenagers followed him in a car and shot him in the back as Eliza Harvey reports. 

ELIZA HARVEY: Chris Lane moved to the home of baseball four years ago, to pursue a professional sporting career. 

But the American south is also the home of guns.

It was a gunshot wound in the back - while the Australian was jogging in the Oklahoma town of Duncan on Friday - that ended the 22-year-old's life.

The random, unprovoked attack has devastated his father Peter and the Lane family in Melbourne's northeast. 

PETER LANE: He did all the cute things a kid should have done. You know, he caused us some grief. He caused us so much joy. He had a good life in terms of... you know, he achieved a lot for a 22-year-old. 

ELIZA HARVEY: Chris Lane and his girlfriend, Sarah, had just come home for a visit. 

PETER LANE: He was just a kid on the cusp of making his life. To try and understand it, it's a short way to insanity. It's, you know, you can what-if yourself... if he'd left five minutes earlier, if he'd left five minutes late - all that stuff, but you are just going to send yourself silly. 

It's the fact that something that shouldn't have happened has happened. It's the fact that somebody we all love so much is not going to come home. But you can't change the circumstances, you can't change the history. You just have to gather together as a family and hold on. And that's what we're trying to do at the moment: hold on.

ELIZA HARVEY: The Lane family is clearly still in shock.

So too is the town of Duncan, which has a population of about 22,000. 

Local police Chief Danny Ford is particularly concerned that the murder was committed by three teenagers. 

DANNY FORD: I've seen some pretty weird stuff. Without any provocation, without any fault. Believe me; we've played this over and over in our heads for the last 48 hours. It does not make sense. 

ELIZA HARVEY: Questions are now being asked about where and how the teenagers got their guns. 

Australia's gun laws, introduced after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, have long been held up as the international gold standard. 

The changes were driven by former Prime Minister John Howard and his deputy Tim Fisher who remains immensely proud of the tough legislation. 

TIM FISHER: Look, this is shocking news from Oklahoma overnight, and it's a sharp reminder why we did the hard yards and the gun law reform of John Howard took Australia down a different path to the USA. The reality: today you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA per thousand people, than here in Australia. 

ELIZA HARVEY: Mr Fisher, what about the broader debate about guns in Australia in the context of the federal election? We do know one party, the Shooters and Fishers Party thinks that the changes that you introduced went way too far one way. They became too strict. How should we be looking at this debate in the context of the federal election? 

TIM FISHER: I believe that we need open, constructive debate and sporting shooters and farmers with genuine need and others who seek guns with proper process, yes fine. But let's keep the semi-automatics way out of the suburbs. 

ELEANOR HALL: That's the former deputy prime minister Tim Fisher ending that report by Eliza Harvey.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

US gun culture is 'corrupting the world,' Australia ex-deputy PM says after Okla. slaying

Gina Smith / East Central University via AP
Slain college ballplayer Christopher Lane, 22, "was a kid on the cusp of making his life," according to his father.
By Sara James, Henry Austin and Alastair Jamieson, NBC News
MELBOURNE, Australia -- Furious at the killing of an Australian college baseball player in Oklahoma, a senior figure in the victim's home country blamed the gun culture of United States for the death, saying it was corrupting the world."
The U.S. has chosen the pathway of illogical policy with regard to guns," Australias former deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer said Friday. "They cannot expect not to have any criticism of it worldwide.
I am angry because it is corrupting the world, this gun culture of the United States. 
His remarks came as the family of slain catcher Christopher Lane struggled to understand why three teens killed him, apparently telling cops they were bored


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

President Barack Obama says the gun lobby and its allies used lies and distortion to thwart legislation in the US Senate that would have expanded background checks for firearms purchases.
Senators voted 54-46, with 60 needed to adopt the measure, as a handful of Democrats joined most Republicans in opposition. The vote was the most significant on gun control in 20 years and countered 90 per cent public support of mandatory background checks.
The gun lobby and its allies wilfully lied about the bill. 
Barack Obama
Mr Obama placed the blame on Republicans and lobbyists for gun manufacturers for rejecting the measure in defiance of the will of a majority of the public. He vowed to press on to get gun legislation passed.

Newtown families
Mr Obama spoke about 90 minutes after backers fell short of 60 votes needed to adopt the measure, an amendment crafted by Senator Joe Minchin, a Democrat, and Pat Toomey, a Republican.
The proposal was intended to be a bipartisan compromise and its failure marks a defeat for the president, who made heightened restrictions on guns and ammunition a priority following the Newtown, Connecticut, school shooting last December.
The gun lobby and its allies wilfully lied about the bill, Mr Obama said. Today was a pretty shameful day for Washington.
Mr Obama was joined at the White House by families of the Newtown victims and former Representative Gabriel Giffords, who was shot in the head in 2011 in her home state of Arizona.
Mr Obama was introduced by Mark Barden, whose son, Daniel, was among the 20 children killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown.
We always knew this would be a long road and theres no turning back, Mr Barden said. We will not be defeated.
Mr Obamas push to expand background checks, renew a federal assault weapons ban and limit ammunition magazines faced opposition from the National Rifle Association, the nations biggest lobby for gun owners and manufacturers.
"Anyone who thinks this is going away is sorely mistaken," said Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy, a Democrat who accompanied Newtown victims' relatives to Washington last week. "If we don't change the laws, there's going to be another shooting," he said. "Maybe then people will wake up."
Mr Obama had appealed for vocal public support, telling Americans in numerous speeches that Congress would not act without pressure from voters. The President stepped up his engagement on the issue in recent weeks.
The debate over gun control was reignited by the Newtown shootings. Mr Obama proposed gun-safety agenda weeks later, including a ban on assault weapons and size limits on ammunition magazines.
NRA Opposition
Those proposals were removed from the Senate bill amid National Rifle Association opposition. The nation's largest gun lobby, which claims four million members, said expanded background checks wouldn't stop further killings and could lead to a national gun registry. Federal law bars such a registry, and licensed gun dealers have kept sales records since 1968.
"Shame on you!" Patricia Maisch of Tucson, Arizona, shouted from the visitors' gallery after the Senate vote result was announced. Ms Maisch had helped overpower the gunman when Ms Giffords was shot.
Five Democrats voted against the background-check measure; four Republicans supported it, including Senator John McCain.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Why is the issue of gun control so controversial?

As violence and murder rates escalated in America throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the issue of gun control enjoyed much heated debate. After the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan in 1981, gun-control legislation was on the forefront of Congresss agenda, but it wouldnt be until 1994with the passage of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, or Brady Law, which mandates a 72-hour waiting period on the purchase of handguns, and the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which bans the manufacture, sale, or possession of nineteen kinds of semi-automatic assault weaponsthat any substantial gun-control laws would take effect. In opposition to these laws stand the National Rifle Association (NRA) and other groups that maintain that the Second Amendment forbids the federal government from obstructing the right to bear arms and that laws that attempt to do so are therefore unconstitutional.
A central question in the gun control debate is whether or not there is an individual right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment, or whether the amendment guarantees only the right of individual states to have their own militias, making it a community right. Groups like the NRA view the Second Amendment as recognizing a right to be armed for individual as well as community protection, and the right of the states to have militias. These groups also maintain that regulation should stay where it belongs, in the hands of the states. Because the Supreme Court has ruled on only a handful of cases regarding the Second Amendment, and because the wording of the Second Amendment is vague and subject to interpretation, it is unlikely that the gun control debate will be settled anytime soon.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Gun Control vs. Gun Rights
The Issue
Update: Votes on Manchin-Toomey Amendment, 4/17/2013
The Dec. 14, 2012 shootings in Newtown, Conn., which resulted in 28 deaths, including that of the gunman, Adam Lanza, once again turned the spotlight on the debate over gun ownership in the U.S. It has been a political hot potato for years, and one that Congress has dealt with gingerly -- too gingerly, in the view of groups favouring tighter regulation of firearms.
The last major piece of gun control legislation to make it into the U.S. Code was the assault weapons ban, which passed in 1994 as part of a larger crime bill passed by Congress and signed by then-President Bill Clinton. The ban applied to the manufacture of 19 specific models of semi-automatic firearms and to other guns with assault-weapons features. But the ban expired in 2004, and repeated attempts to renew it have failed.
Some Democrats believed their support for the assault weapons ban cost them control of Congress in the 1994 mid-term elections. Whether that's true or not, there's little question that the politics of gun ownership have swung to the right. Republicans largely oppose gun control, and Democrats are split, with some lawmakers cautious about going against the views of more conservative constituencies, especially in rural districts. And in 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court weighed in, striking down Washington, D.C.'s blanket ban on handgun ownership in a case known as District of Columbia v. Heller. The ruling established that the Second Amendment to the Constitution -- "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" -- means that individuals, and not just the police and military, may own guns.
The ruling was a narrow one, though, applying only to a person's right to keep a gun at home for self- defence; it doesn't mean that guns can't be regulated in any number of ways. Still, despite various, highly publicized murders and mass shootings -- such as the one in 2007 at Virginia Tech, in which 33 people were killed, the American Civic Association killings in 2009 in Binghamton, N.Y., that took 14 lives, or the 2011 shooting that severely injured Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) and killed six -- no gun control measures have made it through the House and Senate in recent years.
The Money
If lawmakers seem to tiptoe around gun issues, it's at least in part because the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups are loaded for bear. Cash is their ammunition, and they have no shortage of it. Gun rights groups have given more than $30 million in individual, PAC and soft money contributions to federal candidates and party committees since 1989, with nearly $27 million -- or 87% -- of it going to Republicans. And in the 2010 and 2012 election cycles, they let loose another $41.2 million (at least) in outside spending, almost all of which has put Democrats in their crosshairs. The NRA has provided the lion's share of the funds, having contributed more than $21 million since '89 and further opening its coffers to make $25 million in outside expenditures.
Gun control groups, by comparison, have been barely a blip on the radar screen. They've given a total of just under $2 million since 1989, of which 94 precent has gone to Democrats. In the 2012 election cycle, they gave only $5,000.
Several new groups on the scene could alter the balance a bit. New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg started a pro-gun control super PAC, Independence USA PAC, in 2012; it spent more than $8.3 million in several congressional races that year, with mixed results. Former Rep. Giffords started a super PAC in January, 2013, to counter the NRA's influence; it set a fundraising goal of $16 million to $20 million to spend in the 2014 House and Senate elections. And another anti-NRA PAC launched in February, calling itself Americans for the Protection of Children.
The dominance of gun rights groups when it comes to lobbying Congress and other federal agencies is even greater than it is in the realm of campaign finance. From 1998 through 2012, the gun rights lobby spent $75 million making its case in Washington; in 2012 alone, it spent $5.6 million. The NRA accounted for more than half of the 2012 number, or $2.9 million, but over the years other groups -- such as Gun Owners of America and the National Shooting Sports Foundation -- have also made significant lobbying expenditures. And gun control groups? They spent just $240,000 lobbying in 2012.
Updated March 2013


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Gun Killings down  Gun Control Success
Posted on November 4, 2000
SHARE THIS...
The recently released ABS statistics show a dramatic drop in Australian gun deaths for 1998. These figures are shown below. They exhibit the same tendency to decline which was shown in the 1997 figures.
The continued reduction in the number of Australians being killed by guns strongly suggests that the stricter gun laws which have been
put into place throughout Australia during the 1990&#8242;s have saved many hundreds of lives.
A decade ago, in 1988, just before the stricter gun laws started to operate, 696 people died from gun wounds. Last year, 1998, there were 327 gun deaths. Gun suicides and gun homicides have been halved in the last ten years.
In 1998 there were 21 deaths from accidental or careless gun use. Although there has been a moderate decline in the number of accidental gun deaths in the 1990&#8242;s compared with the 1980&#8242;s there are still far too many dying from gun accidents.
The time has come for all eight Australian gun law jurisdictions to develop a serious training and testing regime for all shooters. The death near Warburton this year of Gary Patterson, at the hands of a young deer shooter, is a tragic example of the weakness in Victorias Shooters Licence program.
In February 2000 the police ministers will start examining improvements to the training and testing programs for shooters. Before them is a most inadequate and out of date proposal made by a commercial organisation. It would be a tragedy if this childish program serves as the basis for deciding who gets a gun.
Strict gun laws are helping to save thousands of Australian lives. We need a thorough training and testing program for all shooters, not the play-time ideas being presently proposed by a commercial organisation.
Australia Gun Deaths  Totals
1988	1989	1990	1991	1992	1993	1994	1995	1996	1997	1998
Accident	30	19	30	29	24	18	20	15	30	19	21
Suicide	521	451	488	510	490	435	420	388	382	330	234
Assault	124	80	79	84	96	64	79	67	104	79	57
Legal Int.	4	7	4	6	14	3	7	6	0	7	7
Unknown	17	15	15	5	7	6	0	3	5	2	8
Totals	696	572	617	634	631	526	526	479	521	437	327
Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

The argument saying that if we didn't guns, we could just use knives, is wrong, it's not as easy to kill with a knife as it is to kill with a gun. 
Yes gun control unfortunately would not stop every murder, but is that a risk we're actually willing to take??? 
Another argument is to give guns to school staff, well if we for example, gave Hank the janitor a gun, how are we 100% sure that he will not bring danger to the children. The presence of a gun can make a person feel power that they should not have.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

God was missing for six days. Eventually, Michael, the archangel, found him resting on the seventh day. 


He inquired of God "Where have you been?" 


God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction, and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds, "Look, Michael. Look what I've made." 


Archangel Michael looked puzzled, and said, "What is it?" 


"It's a planet," replied God, "and I've put Life on it. I'm going to call it Earth and it's going to be a great place of balance." 


"Balance?" inquired Michael, "I'm still confused." 


God explained, pointing to different parts of earth. "For example, northern Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while southern Europe is going to be poor. Over there I've placed a continent of white people, and over there is a continent of black people. Balance in all things," God continued pointing to different countries. "This one will be extremely hot, while this one will be very cold and covered in ice." 


The Archangel, impressed by God's work, then pointed to a land area and said, "What's that one?" 


"Ah," said God, "That's Washington State, the most glorious place on earth. There are beautiful mountains, rivers and streams, lakes, forests, hills and plains. The people from Washington State are going to be handsome, modest, intelligent, and humorous, and they are going to be found traveling the world. They will be extremely sociable, hardworking, high achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats, and carriers of peace. 


Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then asked, "But what about balance, God? You said there would be balance." 


God smiled, "There is another Washington. Wait till you see the idiots I put there."


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Households with guns are dangerous.

In these households, it is more likely that a member of the family will die from a gun-related death than that the gun will be used to kill an intruder. See the study here:
http://aje.Oxfordjournals.Org/content/160/10/929.Full
And for those who say that criminals will still commit crimes, gun control laws will make purchasing deadly weapons harder, thereby deterring criminals.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Guns are dangerous!

Guns are dangerous and are useful and beneficial in barely any way. They only cause trouble and problems - even if you used your gun to shoot a burglar away from your home, you could be accused of murder. Which is...? Not good. Even if some criminals get their way around and get a gun, it won't do as much harm as use of guns being legal.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Gun Control in NO WAY infringes the Second Amendment

"A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." ~ 2nd Amendment

How gun control infringes the above statement, I have no idea...Someone who owns a gun puts everyone at somewhat of a risk around them by owning that gun- just with its presence. People need to learn that, instead of being paranoid that they need the most top-of-the-line guns to somehow protect themselves from non-existent murders that are out to get them. Police are there for a reason. Oh wait, I forgot, the police/government are out to get us all too LOL. Why don't we make their jobs that much more dangerous by opposing gun control, eh?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

We need tighter gun laws!!!

Tighter gun laws are definitely needed in the states. There are many school shootings and deaths in the USA that could and would be prevented if gun laws were stricter. A child dies every 30 minutes due to guns in the USA. Do we want to protect our children or kill them? The trouble is due to current gun laws the black market for guns is enormous therefore it would only be dangerous people disobeying the law in possession of guns putting innocent people at risk. The situation with guns should never have got this bad and the use and possession of firearms should have been abolished many years ago


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

They are NEEDED

Does their 'NEED', not 'want' stricter laws, and yes, I think it is a necessity that there are stricter laws. After all these recent shootings, it seems needed. Any mentally handicapped person can just go and buy a gun, any violent criminal (gun or no gun crime... Still violent) can go and buy a gun. 
If you are a responsible adult, then you should have no worries about stricter gun laws, because they shouldn't affect you


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Just Stricter. JUST.

There should definitely be stricter law when it comes to guns. You need a license and training to drive, so too should you need the same to own a gun. Banning guns altogether would be disastrous and unconstitutional, but to require training and psychoanalysis is a fair idea. Or, at the very least, there should be some kind of restrictions on buying an arsenal of weapons online. Stricter laws are the only way to go about gun control in the United States.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

People don't understand that lives matter

Gun restrictions will save lives. It is understandable that not all guns will be taken away, as well as many people will still die, but a life is still a life-whether it is one thousand or one. If gun restrictions are applied many lives WILL be saved. Progress is progress. Don't expect to see numbers go down by one hundred precent. Gun owners, no one will take away your gun, they will only put a restriction (like the amount of ammo your allowed to have) to protect people from accidents like the one in Colorado. We were ALL blessed with life. If we have the ability to help save lives then we should do what is right.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Stricter Gun Laws!

While some may argue that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people', it's pretty hard to kill a person without a gun. Also, not all victims of shootings are bad guys; however it is the bad guys who have the guns. For instance, a woman in 1997 was shot dead in Victoria (Australia) on her own driveway and IN FRONT of her two children. Police were able to find no connections between the woman and bikie gangs, ethnic rivalries or involvement with drugs - which are often the main reasons for shootings. It is because of the fact that completely innocent people can be targeted that I believe the gun laws should be stricter and more heavily enforced.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Better than doing nothing

Some may say that people kill people, however what motivates them? The wide advertisement of guns and their availability stimulates human minds. Consider the Massacre at Sandy Hook, the children who never got to live their lives. No future birthdays, no marriages, and not even getting to see your parents pass away. Instead, you are the one who leaves your parents first. Yes, there are knifes, bombs, and all sorts of weapons. But the most common are guns. Some may argue that the laws are useless, but should we let this kind of violence pass by and be mere bystanders? With careful planning, there is always a possibility. We are just asking for no violence, how is this wrong to ask? And think about the dead children's parents! They were taken away their precious children, and they have to suppress to following the demand of guns over their dead offspring. Are weapons more important than guns? Think about that. People say this nation is the land of the free, but it is the other way around. People are forced to follow stereotypes, regulations, and strict restrictions that they cannot think out of the box. Some Americans are clueless of other nations outside of their home country. We need to have open minds about crises around us.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Fewer guns equals fewer gun related deaths

All the international statistics show that counties with fewer guns and strict controls have far fewer gun related homicides. Also where domestic and gang disputes used to be solved with fisticuffs and frying pans now people grab guns and kill each other. It is common sense that lethal weapons are lethal. Less availability will save lives.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Look around you

If you look about at the world, even in the news for the past few months, there are endless counts of violence by guns. Guns are massive issue at the moment-it is undeniable-whether you think the use of them should be allowed or not is another matter. Think of the gun shootings in America, they occur in cinemas, schools, public places where you think you should be safe but in fact aren't due to how liberal the gun owning is. There needs to be more control so that in everyday life you can think- oh it's safe for me to go to town, to go shopping, to watch a film, because not just anybody can own a gun.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Guns lead to the harm of the innocent

People love to say guns don't kill people, people kill people. People with guns kill people. You take away guns (not little hand guns, stuff like that, doesn't have to be that strict) then all these mass shootings that are happening everywhere simply cannot happen. Plus, people are often irresponsible with their weapons, so they should not be allowed in an environment with children present. Too many kids have gotten their parents guns and killed themselves. When people cannot be responsible for themselves, it is up to someone else to be responsible for them and stop them from getting others hurt.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Guns dont kill people. People kill people. No! People kill people WITH guns.
That is such a stupid saying. You are trying to avoid the problem which is the gun. If people didn't have guns there wouldnt be shootings like Sandy Hook. There is less chance that people will murder without a gun. Guns are easy to use, just a pull a trigger and youre done. Knives and blunt objects are harder. You have to get close to your victim. It would be harder to run away before somebody catches you. With a gun you could easily shoot from a distance and escape. Dont say guns dont kill people because they do. You dont see me saying pens dont write on paper. THEY DO! They freaking do right on paper. Get a life all of you.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

America needs stricter laws for gun control!

88 people. Do you have any idea what this number signifies? This is the average number of people whose lives are taken away as a consequence of gun use every day in America. These people are students in high school, parents who work to provide for their family and even children who had their whole lives ahead of them. Just as alarming, thousands more are victimised and admitted to hospital in serious conditions, often life threatening. The fact of the matter is, people use guns to kill other people. There is a general consensus amongst Americans that gun control does not work. But what if it could work?
An example? Australia.
In 1996, Prime Minister John Howard, instituted sweeping gun control laws after a massacre in Port Arthur that shocked the nation. Howard banned automatic guns followed by a buy-back scheme whereby the government bought guns from the Australian people, and destroyed it.
Since, 1996, 17 years ago, there have been zero gun mass shootings. Let me repeat that: Since 1996, there have been zero gun mass shootings. Now many of you may be arguing that the Port Arthur massacre was just a once off occurrence. However, prior to the massacre there had been a staggering 13 mass murders in the previous 18 years leading to the major incident. Alongside this, the Australian Institute of Criminology revealed that the buy-back scheme reduced firearm suicides by an astonishing 74% and homicides by 59%.
Not only did Australia save an estimated 200 people per year, we also saved $500 million US each year.
On the contrary, differing interpretations claimed gun death rates were already decreasing prior to the reform. However one study revealed that the rates of decline doubled after the reformed gun laws. 
The Australian government is often criticised that gun control did not work as there was a 20 precent increase in sexual assaults and more than a 40 precent increase in assaults. The idea that gun control increases assaults is a misconception. As only 0.3 precent of assaults had involved firearms thus suggesting that this sudden increase has to be attributed to some other factor beyond the scope of this discussion.

Now back to Americas situation. On the 27th of December 2012, Adam Lanza killed 26 people, 20 of which were children. The chance that this could have been prevented seems moderately likely, if America had adopted the strict licensing and ownership controls that had been implemented by Howard. More specifically, the reform explicitly requires that back ground checks on both the owner, and those living with the gun-owner. With this, in mind Adam Lanzas mother may not have been granted permission to purchase such a weapon, meaning her son would not have access to a gun, thus, preventing this heart-aching, throat-burning massacre.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Guns aren't a necessity

America has been brainwashed by the politicians and the society that they live in that guns are a necessity to defend themselves. The fact is, this isn't true. The culture that they live in has become so used to guns that it isn't unusual for any one person to own more than three guns and have them on display around their home. People carry guns everywhere with them because they feel this need to defend themselves. That need wouldn't be there if there simply were no guns, because then the criminals wouldn't have guns to kill you with so you wouldn't need a gun to fight back. Sure, it'd be useful if a psycho came at you, but imagine how much more likely you would be to die if that psycho had a gun. Guns aren't a necessity America, wake up and get over your little obsession with them.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

What could it hurt!

If stricter gun laws help prevent even the smallest tragedy what can hurt? This proposal is not taking away our constitutional right. We law abiding citizens will still be allowed to have a gun. This is a suggestion as to how we can help keep a gun from the wrong person.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Stricter gun laws 
Because there are too many innocent lives being taken away because so many idiots are allowed to have guns because a law created over 200 years ago said they can. 
Also children are allowed to own shot guns, in 2005 3,027 people the age 19 and under died from gunshot wounds, 1,972 were homicides, 822 were suicides and 173 were the result of unintentional shootings, also firearms were used in 46% of suicide deaths among persons under 25 in 2005.
This is unacceptable!!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

We need stricter gun control legislation!

America needs stricter gun control legislation. People are dying and if we dont do anything about it people will keep dying. If we have stricter laws it wont take away our right to bear arms (second amendment) but it will give us a greater opportunity to embrace our Core Democratic Value, Life


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Life in A Rapidly Shrinking Puddle

by Ed Yong

What if you were born into a world that only blinks into existence once a year, and lasts for mere weeks or months before disappearing again? How would you live your life?

We can find the answer in East Africa, where a fish lives out its entire lives in rapidly shrinking pools of water.

During the rainy season, water fills small depressions in the savannah, creating temporary ponds. Its the cue that the turquoise killifish (Nothobranchius furzeri) has been waiting for. Its eggs, encased in mud and lying dormant within the soil, finally hatch. Right from the start, the baby fish are on borrowed time. They have a couple of months before their puddle dries out. Before that unpredictable deadline, theyve got to grow to sexual maturity, mate, and lay the next generation.

The turquoise killifish has adapted to this precarious existence by evolving the shortest lifespan of any back-boned animal. In the wild, they live for a few months and they fare little better in captivity. Back in 2003, Italian scientists Stefano Valdesalici and Alessandro Cellerino showed that groups of captive killifish start dying after just six weeks. On average, they survive for nine weeks, and none of them make it past eleven. For comparison, other related killifish live for around a year, as do tiny mammals like shrews.

If they die young, theyve got to live fast. By studying the turquoise killifish and a related species, Nothobranchius kadleci, Czech scientist Radim Blaek showed that their body length increases by up to a quarter every day in their first two weeks of life.

By days 11 to 13, the males are already wearing their bold red adult colours. By days 17 to 19, the females are sexually mature and start to release eggs, which the males lace with sperm. Again, these are record-breaking figures for vertebrates. Female laboratory mice take at least 23 days to become sexually mature, as do the tiny wild infantfishes. The killifishes beat that by almost a week.

At first, the females lay a few dozen eggs a day, but they start producing hundreds once they stop growing and start channelling all their energy into reproduction. One particularly enterprising female managed to lay 583 eggs in a day. The first of these fertilised eggs develop so quickly, that if theres enough water left, they can hatch in just 15 days. In as little as a month, the next generation is born.

The killifishes show how animals can adapt to extreme environments by evolving extreme lifespans. Another example comes from Madagascar. In response to the countrys harsh and highly seasonal environment, Labords chameleon spends the majority of its life within its own egg. An entire generation hatches during rainy November, matures by January, breeds by February, and dies by April. Meanwhile, their eggs stay underground until the following November. This unusual cycle means that at any given time, theres only one generation of Labords chameleon on the planet and theyre all the same age.

Lobards-chameleonReference: Blazek, Polacik & Reichard. 2013. Rapid growth, early maturation and short generation time in African annual fishes. EvoDevo, citation tbc.

Valdesalici & Cellerino. 2003. Extremely short lifespan in the annual fish Nothobranchius furzeri. Biology Letters http://dx.doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2003.0048


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

10 Arguments in Favor of Pro-Choice Policy
By Pheo152
Jan 26, 2009

(The following is part of our weeklongRoe v. Wade Blog-a-thon)
10. Laws against abortion do not stop abortion; they simply make it less safe. The number of women who get abortions does not change when it goes from being legal to illegal, or vice versa. The only thing that changes is more women die. Every year, 78,000 women die from unsafe abortions.
9. If people want to stop abortion, they should turn to methods that do work. These include comprehensive sex education and safe, affordable contraceptives. Unfortunately, as illogical as it sounds, the people who are most against abortion are also often most against these preventative measures. If they truly wanted to reduce the number of abortions that occur, they would embrace these methods.
8. The politicians pro-lifers so ardently support are only after one thing: self-interest. The majority of them are not pro-life because they agree with you; they are because they know you will continue to vote for themand they know that making women remain pregnant not only takes away their power, but it also keeps them busy, in line, controlled, as well as a baking factory for their failing economy. The more people they have to rule over, the more they have to work and buy. Period.
7. Religious ideology is no foundation for any law. Freedom of religion is guaranteed to any citizen in the United States; so why would the beliefs and values of one religion mandate actual laws for all citizens? It would be unfair, unjust and immoral. We do not have laws against eating fish, nor do we have laws that declare it is legal to sell ones daughter, rape someone, or keep a person as a slaveall things that are promoted in religious text.
6. Reproductive restrictions do not end with abortion. Many people also argue that contraception itself is wronganother mainly-religious philosophyand will deny women the protection they need based on this belief. There are legislative acts that allow actual pharmacists to deny women their birth control because of their beliefs; does this not violate the Hippocratic Oath, especially if thousands of women are on birth control because their very lives depend on it (see #2)? Also, since it is my belief that men should not rape women, if I were a pharmacist, would I have a right to deny a man his Viagra just in case he uses it to rape? You never know.
5. Most people who are against abortion will never even become pregnant. If a law would never, in any circumstance, apply to a man, a man creating that law is preposterous. It is akin to men creating laws that ban women from voting, owning property, or showing skin in publiconly much more deadly.
4. Women who are raped or victims of incest should not be forced to carry out a pregnancy. Odds are that 1 in 3 women will be victims of sexual violence in her lifetime. Does this mean that 33% of all women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy from this violation? Considering how many people are killed during childbirth (see #2), should we allow this further risk to endured on top of what has already been done?
Many would argue that these women could endure the pregnancy, spending nearly a year of her life simply re-living the rape and its effects over and over again, to give up a baby at the end of it for adoption. However, we all are aware of the fact that there are millions of unwanted children awaiting adoption as we speak who remain unclaimed; in fact, UNICEF estimates that there are 210 million orphans in the world right now. If they have no one willing to be their parent or guardian, why would another baby have a better chance?
My theory is that people who spend so much time, energy, and money on anti-abortion campaigns should instead spend it on the precious children they say need saving so muchthe ones who are alive and parentless. Imagine if all the funds spent on all those billboards and flyers and campaigns were instead either spent adopting or donating to places that are overrun with orphaned children perhaps some actual credibility would be given to these people who claim to love children so much.
Also, there is the fact of the matter of the more than one million homeless youth in America alone. The number one factor for a child being homeless is physical or sexual abuse at home. Perhaps these child-lovers should step in and care for these already-born children as well.
3. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and poverty. There is a reason that the 1 billion poorest people on the planet are female. In sub-Saharan Africa and west Asia, women typically have five to six children, which leaves them powerless to provide for not only their own families, but themselves.
2. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and DEATH. Women who face deadly consequences of a pregnancy deserve to choose to live. Teen girls, whose bodies are not yet ready for childbirth, are five times more likely to die. Not only do 70,000 girls ages 15-19 die each year from pregnancy and childbirth, but the babies that do survive have a 60% higher chance of dying as well.
During my own pregnancywhich had been unexpected though joyful up to this pointI was horrified to learn that I had preeclampsia only 25 weeks in. While they were able to save both my daughter and me, she was born at 1 pound, three months premature, and was a medical miracle. Most babies at that weight do not survive; and if they do, they suffer severe complicationsas do the mothers, including myself. I was then informed that my risk of it happening all over again was extremely high, and that if there were a next time I may not be so lucky. I am fortunate to have access to birth control, but many womenespecially young onesdo not. Preeclampsia alone affects 10 to 15% of all women! There are hundreds of other complications that arise besides preeclampsia that can, and will, result in death as well.>
1. Doctors, not governments, should always be the people to make medical recommendations and opinions. Would you allow the government to tell you if you could have a kidney transplant or a blood transfusion? Of course not. The fact that we even consider, let alone allow, governments to regulate a medical procedure is both illogical and foolish.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

There probably arent more issues more emotive than the abortion issue. Pro life campaigners cite the sanctity of life, and that once conceived, even before a bundle of cells becomes an actual person, a fetus automatically has the right to life.
Religious groups, politicians, and many other groups and parties are clamoring to have a say in the matter. Its used as a platform for political campaigns, touted as an unpardonable sin, and has been the cause of violent attacks, on clinics, doctors and nurses who work there, and women who visit them. Blood boils when the topic of abortion is raised, with both the pro life and pro choice factions attempting to put their point across, but seldom ever listening to the valid arguments of the other.
Children should be a source of joy, yet the decision whether or not to have them has become a source of pain, hatred and misery. I am sure, whatever higher power is out there, never intended for this to happen, and that the violent outbreaks are a source of anguish.
However, when examining the facts, and while there are valid arguments on the part of pro life campaigners, there are the same on the part of those who are pro choice.
When you get right down to it though, the decision whether or not to become a mother rests with that woman. It is her body that will carry the child, her life that may be endangered if a difficult pregnancy occurs, and her life that will change irrevocably once that child is born, whether she chooses to keep the child, or place it up for adoption.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Here are our top ten objective arguments for pro choice.
10. No One Has the Right to Decide But You

Assuming that you live in country or state that has made elective abortion legal, you, as the potential mother to be, have the sole right to determine whether you wish to keep the fetus that is growing inside of you, or not.
For one of many reasons, whether they be financial, or because you are in a bad relationship, were rape, have a chemical dependency, or a potentially life threatening hereditary disease, or any other reason you may have, you have the right to decide on the future of your body.
Pregnancy is difficult, often dangerous, and certainly not something to be entered into lightly and caring for a child is even more so, on all counts. Making sure you are physically and mentally able to be a mother should be your first priority, rather than the decisions others would like to foist on to you.
Think about it  no one would force you to donate an organ, submit to drug testing, or any other form of invasion of your body, and if they did, it would be illegal. Bottom line? No matter what anyone says, does or threatens, the decision is yours.
9. Every Child Should be Wanted

The truth of the matter is, children who are not wanted, and not put up for adoption, are likely to end up with parents who are disinterested at best, or actively abusive at worst.
Having known people who have been adopted, its easy to recognize a common refrain that runs through their laments. Why didnt they want me? Even the most well adjusted wonder why they were given up, and those that are not end up with lingering mental health disorders, stemming from their abandonment issue. They have trouble forming relationships, and may have behavioral problems as well.
In short, whether they are kept by their natural parents, or given up for adoption, the likelihood is that children who are not wanted and cherished will suffer some form of ill effect.
Interestingly enough, several of the people I have spoken to who are adopted have stated that if they ever had to choose between adoption and abortion, in the event of an unwanted pregnancy, they would choose the latter.
8. There Are Countless Destitute Children Already

Its a fact that there are already countless thousands, or hundreds of thousands, of homeless, orphaned, or unwanted children in the world.
These children, scattered across the globe, lack proper nutrition, healthcare, education and shelter. They never have the opportunity to truly be children  to play, laugh, and be happy and carefree. Instead, they live in poverty and fear, are abused, and often die before they reach adulthood.
We can argue till the cows come home, but the money spent lobbying against abortion would be better spent helping those children. Think about it  if someone really wants an abortion, theyll find a way to get one, regardless of what you do or say. Save your money, and save a child who is already suffering.
7. In Some Cases, Abortion is Safer

Not to generalize, but there are circumstances where the mother to be is unable to sustain a pregnancy safely, and would endanger herself, as well as her fetus, if that were to occur.
In such an instance, it makes sense to perform an abortion, saving the woman in questions life, rather than to risk both her well being, and that of the fetus.
Its a tough decision in most cases, and often happens to women who would dearly love to have a child, but in this case, common sense should prevail.
6. Legalized Abortions Save Lives

Going back to a point that was made earlier, if a woman is bent on aborting a fetus, whether she goes to a clean, legal, proper medical facility to achieve it, or a back street butcher, she will find a way to do it.
Of course, many women die from backstreet abortions, or contract serious illnesses, or are so scarred for life that they are never able to bear children.
It should be borne in mind that just because a woman chooses to end one pregnancy, does not mean she never intends to have children, and forcing women to seek illegal, unsafe abortions would result in this for many. Of course, you may choose to argue that she deserves what she gets for her sins, however, I could counter with let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
5. No Woman Should Be Forced to Mother a Child of Rape

The act of rape, in itself, is violent, abhorrent, and leaves scars for life. A rapist takes from a woman her dignity, and her feeling of security, leaving her forever fearful.
When such an act results in a child, it is not the result of love, or even carelessness, but rather, that act of violence made flesh. If a woman who has been raped is forced to carry her child to term, she will feel that child move inside her, knowing that half of it is composed of her attacker.
If she chooses to keep that child, she will forever be torn between the love of a mother for her child, and the memory of the man who brutalized her, and if the child ever finds out the truth behind their conception, they may well develop self loathing or other mental disorders.
Rape is a crime, and the perpetrators of rape should be punished, however, if women who become pregnant out of rape are forced to carry the child, they are the ones who are punished. That is not fair, in anyones book.
4. Chemically Dependent Mothers

More and more, in our messed up, damaged world, women who are drug addicts or alcoholics become pregnant. The fetus she carries inside of her has no chance of being born normal, or of having a normal life.
Oftentimes, these women, by circumstance, are poverty stricken or homeless, living a life of pain, unhappiness, and misery. To bring a child into a situation like that would be cruel and inhuman, and if that child will also bear the burden of physical and mental disabilities, then it should not even be a consideration.
Alcohol abuse and chemical dependence are diseases, and the sufferers are usually unable to stop, even when they are aware they are pregnant. If they do carry to term, their children are born dependent on the substances they use, or have birth defects. People who are chemically dependent are also not in control of their faculties all the time, and may not even have realized that they are pregnant, or even that they had sex, or with who.
In this situation, the only humane thing to do would be to end the childs suffering before it begins.
3. The World Is Overpopulated

In countries like China, where strict regulations are set on the size of families, and enforced abortions are the norm for those who fail to obey, this has come into effect because the governments of those countries know they lack the resources to cater to a larger population.
The same problem is occurring around the world, where large families typically live in poverty, and borderline starvation, while those who have fewer children enjoy a better quality of life.
Food stores are dwindling, fresh water supplies are less able to cope with demand, and fossil fuels that provide life giving energy are fast dwindling, leading the world for disaster. Humans are breeding themselves out of existence, and unless something is done to slow population growth, we will continue to have more and more poverty, hunger, disease and other symptoms of over population.
By giving people the choice  whether they want to have a child, or have another child, or indeed, have a child right now, we effectively help ease the growth of our population.
2. Contraceptives are not Infallible

Its often argued that if you dont want children, you shouldnt get pregnant in the first place, which is fair enough. However, how many people dont become pregnant when their condom breaks, or their pill does not work for one reason or another?
Perhaps these people, who are doing their bit to be responsible, simply cannot afford to have a child at that time, or perhaps the woman cannot afford the expense, or time off work, that goes with having a baby. Should they then be forced to have that child, either jeopardizing their own financial futures, careers or other aspects of their lives, or should the woman be forced either to have an illegal backstreet abortion or place the child up for adoption?
While the indiscriminate practice of abortion as a means of birth control is abhorrent, and should be stopped, there are legitimate cases, where through no fault of their own, couples end up having to make this decision. Giving them all the options is only fair.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

A woman's right to choose abortion is a "fundamental right" recognized by the US Supreme Court. The landmark abortion case Roe v. Wade was decided on Jan. 22, 1973, and remains the law of the land. [49]

 Personhood begins at birth, not at conception. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, not a baby. Personhood at conception is not a proven biological fact.

 Fetuses are incapable of feeling pain when an abortion is performed. According to Stuart W. G. Derbyshire, PhD, Senior Lecturer at the University of Birmingham (England), "[n]ot only has the biological development not yet occurred to support pain experience, but the environment after birth, so necessary to the development of pain experience, is also yet to occur." [10]

 Access to legal, professionally-performed abortions reduces injury and death caused by unsafe, illegal abortions. The World Health Organization estimated in 2006 that "back-alley" abortions cause 68,000 maternal deaths each year in countries where abortion is not legal. [11]

 The anti-abortion position is usually based on religious beliefs and threatens the vital separation of church and state. Religious ideology should not be a foundation for law in the United States.

 Modern abortion procedures are safe. The risk of a womans death from abortion is less than one in 100,000, [12] whereas the risk of a woman dying from giving birth is 13.3 deaths per 100,000 pregnancies. [13]Furthermore, a 1993 fertility investigation of 10,767 women by the Joint Royal College of General Practitioners and Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists found that women who had at least two abortions experienced the same future fertility as those who had at least two natural pregnancies. [14]

 Access to abortion is necessary because contraceptives are not always readily available. Women need a doctor's prescription to obtain many birth control methods, such as the pill, the patch, the shot, and the diaphragm. About half of all large group insurance plans do not cover any form of prescription contraception, and only a third cover the birth control pill. A July/Aug. 2001 Guttmacher Institute study of health care insurers found that 75% of insured women lacked coverage for contraceptive services. [15] As of 2009, 17 million US women were completely uninsured.[16]

 The American Medical Association (AMA) recognizes abortion as a medical procedure if performed by a licensed physician in compliance with good medical practice standards. There are about 1,800 licensed physicians who provide abortions in the United States. These doctors, not politicians, should have the authority to make medical decisions regarding abortion. [17]

 Abortion gives couples the option to choose not to bring babies with severe and life-threatening medical conditions to full term. Fragile X syndrome, the most common genetic form of mental retardation, affects about 1 in 4,000 males and 1 in 8,000 females. One in 800 babies have Down Syndrome, and one in 3,500 babies are born with Cystic Fibrosis. [18] It is wrong to sentence a child to life with an acute handicap.

 Many women who choose abortion don't have the financial resources to support a child. A Sep. 2005 survey in the peer-reviewed journalPerspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health asking women why they had an abortion found that 73% of respondents said they could not afford to have a baby, and 38% said giving birth would interfere with their education and career goals. Reproductive choice protects women from financial disadvantage. [19]

 Motherhood must never be a punishment for having sexual intercourse. President Barack Obama said during a Mar. 29, 2008 campaign speech in Johnston, Pennsylvania, "I have two daughters... I'm going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

 A baby should not come into the world unwanted. 49% of all pregnancies among American women are unintended. [50] Having a child is an important lifelong decision that requires consideration, preparation, and planning.

 Abortion is an effective tool for population control. Malnutrition, starvation, poverty, lack of medical and educational services, pollution, underdevelopment, and conflict over resources are all consequences of overpopulation. [21]

 An association between abortion and breast cancer is unsubstantiated. The National Cancer Institute (NCI), the American Cancer Society (ACS), and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) have all refuted the reliability of studies claiming abortion can lead to a higher probability of developing breast cancer. [22]

 Abortion reduces crime. Some estimates claim legalized abortion accounted for as much as 50% of the drop in murder, property crime, and violent crime between 1973 and 2001. Teenage girls, unmarried women, and poor women are more likely to have unintended pregnancies, and since unwanted babies are often raised in poverty, their chances of leading criminal lives in adulthood are increased.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Why I Am Pro-Choice by Ellen Painter Dollar
November 18, 2011 By Amy Julia Becker 34 Comments
I became interested in reproductive ethics for very personal reasons: Nine years ago, my husband and I underwent preimplantation genetic diagnosis (PGD, which is in vitro fertilization with genetic screening) to try to conceive a child who would not inherit my disabling bone disorder. In an e-mail discussion at the time with a theologian friend, we explored theological perspectives on whether fertilized eggs have the moral status of human beings. Some theologians use scientific criteria to inform those views. For example, some argue that during the time after fertilization when it is possible for embryos to split and form twins, an embryo cannot be classified as a human being because it is potentially several people, rather than a single, unique person.
After several e-mails in which my friend and I tossed bits of scientific minutiae about embryonic development back and forth, he suggested that science provided an insufficient framework for examining the moral status of embryos. Approached from a scientific perspective, the question of whether a fertilized egg is a human being can be answered in different ways depending on the information we have and how we interpret it. The more important question, my friend argued, is whether we approach embryos reverently, as gifts whose worth is determined by the nature of the God who gives them, or empirically, as bits of flesh whose worth is determined by our scientific understanding of their particular traits at particular times.
I firmly believe that Christians, as believers in a loving God who creates every human being in Gods image, should approach human embryos reverently. Why, then, do I support abortion rights?
First, a note on language: While I support abortion rights, I am not pro-abortion. I do not think abortion is a good thing, nor do I think abortion is a morally neutral act. But fundamentally, I am a practical person. The primary reason I support abortion rights is that, for all of human history, women have gotten pregnant unintentionally, and have sought ways to end them, often at the expense of their safety or their lives. When abortion is not legal, it becomes unsafe, but women seek it out anyway. And I care about those women as people made in Gods image too. As Hillary Clinton once said, I want to live in a society where abortion is safe, legal, and rare. What if, instead of striving to make abortion illegal, we Christians worked toward making it rare?
My focus on abortion reduction rather than criminalization stems, again, from my practical nature. Making it illegal wont end abortion, it will just drive abortion underground, where women will suffer. Nothing much good grows in the dark.
Yet I opened this piece by saying I believe human embryos should be treated with reverence. Doesnt that reverence require us to condemn abortion under all circumstances? No, it doesnt. To explain why, Ill use the example of Christian attitudes toward divorce.
We live in a culture inclined to treat embryos as products that women and men can choose to accept or not accept based on consumer-oriented values: Is it convenient? Is it what I want? Will it make me happy? This attitude can be apparent in decisions about abortion, as well as decisions about using reproductive technology to conceive, screen, and select embryos with or without certain traits (such as in gender selection). Likewise, our culture is inclined to treat marriage as something we choose to start or end based on our wants and desires, rather than what God asks of us and what is required for us to be fully human (which necessarily includes self-sacrifice, dependence, limitation, and pain). Christians approach (or at least, should approach) marriage with a reverence that the wider culture often lacks, as a lifelong commitment that will sometimes be convenient and make us happy, and will sometimes be inconvenient and bring us pain. But despite our belief in the holiness of marriage, few Christians protest our countrys laws governing no-fault divorce. Indeed, despite Biblical passages indicating that divorce is questionable in the Judeo-Christian tradition, most churches do not protest divorce, dont think twice about accepting members who have been divorced, and offer their sanctuaries and clergy for blessing new marriages after divorce.
When it comes to divorce, most Christians recognize that we can support a model of marriage that differs from our cultural model without arguing that divorce should be illegal. Likewise, we can hold up a model of human sexuality and family that differs from our cultural model without making abortion illegal. We can talk about sexuality as a gift from God, and critique cultural messages saying that the ability to have casual sex with multiple partners is somehow empowering to women. We can provide support, both emotional and material, to women who have unintentional pregnancies. We can fund, vote for, and work for efforts to lift families out of poverty, so that no woman decides to have an abortion because she cant afford to care for a baby.
Our job as Christians is not to change the legal structure of our secular democracy to fit with our religious belief that human life is given by God and therefore to be treated with reverence. Our job, rather, is to simply treat human lifehuman liveswith reverence. Abortion is a moral tragedy, as is a woman feeling she has no other choice but to seek out an unsafe, illegal abortion. Legalized abortion reduces the incidence of the latter; lets work on reducing, rather than criminalizing, the former.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

The Biblical Basis for
Being Pro-Choice
The Bible never mentions abortion, but it does offer support for choice.
BY: Marjorie Brahms Signer
586 20 32 2
The 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, created a huge amount of misinformation about the nature of being pro-choice. Starting with President Bush's proclamation of National Sanctity of Human Life Day, the purpose seems to be to portray those who are pro-choice as godless and heartless. But being pro-choice is firmly grounded in the Bible.
Who is pro-choice and religious? Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, and Reform and Conservative Judaism. These organizations have a diversity of views about abortion and recognize it as a morally complex decision that must be made by the person most affected--the woman.
Among religious groups, the pro-choice position is nuanced, recognizing that most people believe abortion--as well as bearing children-are matters for individual conscience, not government or religious mandate. Pro-choice denominations don't seek to impose their views on others or to make them law. They recognize that in our pluralistic society, politicians must not be allowed to impose laws about childbearing based on any particular belief about when life begins. The notion that life begins at the moment of conception is a belief held by some, but not all, religious groups.
In fact, the Bible never mentions abortion and does not deal with the question of when life begins. Genesis 2:7 (God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being") refers to the specific, unique event of the creation of Adam out of the earth. It says nothing about the process of conception, pregnancy, and birth.
The Book of Exodus clearly indicates that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person (Chapter 21:22-23). That verse indicates that if a man pushes a pregnant woman and she then miscarries, he is required only to pay a fine. If the fetus were considered a full person, he would be punished more severely as though he had taken a life. [Editor's note: Read more detailed pro-choice and pro-life analyses of Exodus 21.]
Religions have many different--and changing--tenets about abortion. Some oppose abortion in all cases because they believe human life begins when an egg and sperm meet. They hold this belief even though medical science defines pregnancy as beginning with the implantation of the fertilized egg. Others believe abortion must be allowed in cases of rape and incest. Some believe abortion is required in certain circumstances, such as when a woman's life is in danger.
Many religions believe the decision must be the woman's because she is the person most affected.
Christians and Jews agree that all life is sacred--the life of a woman as well as the potential life of a fetus. Many Protestant Christians emphasize the New Testament's teaching of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that everyone has direct access to God and therefore the ability to do God's will.
The Bible tells us that God acts within human beings to set us free and enable us to assume responsibility for ourselves. If we make wrong choices, God forgives us. Humans, by the grace of God, have developed medicine, surgery, and psychiatry to prolong and enhance life. These same medical approaches can be chosen to prolong or enhance the life of a woman for whom a specific pregnancy would be dangerous.
All Jewish authorities base their understanding of the Jewish view of abortion on two basic Jewish principles--that preserving life is of paramount importance, and that the fetus does not possess the same status as a living woman. Most Jewish thinkers throughout history have held that when a woman's life or health is at stake, abortion is permissible and sometimes even mandatory, regardless of the stage of fetal development.
Together, pro-choice Christians and Jews base their views on these biblical principles:
Stewardship. Genesis tells us we are created in God's image and that with that gift comes the responsibility for ".every living thing that moves upon the earth" (1:27-28). It follows that, as moral agents, women have the God-given obligation to make decisions about the course of action that seems most responsible in cases of unwelcome pregnancy.
Free will. Created in God's image, we are endowed with the ability to make moral choices. This ability is the very basis of an individual's dignity and autonomy.
Personhood. The Bible's portrait of personhood centers on the woman and man who bear the image of God and live in responsible relation to God.
The sanctity of life. All religions revere life. It is because we believe in the sanctity of all human life that we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy on women and families. We pray for a world in which every child is wanted, loved, and cared for. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life that we believe a child has the right to enter the world wanted and loved. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy upon individual women, upon their loved ones and their families, and we recognize that they, not we, must determine what is best for those directly concerned and involved.
Respect. The Bible places full responsibility for procreation in the hands of parents. Requiring a woman to complete a pregnancy against her will devalues motherhood and shows lack of respect for women.
Religious Liberty. Religious Americans honor the dignity and value of all human life but recognize that different religious traditions hold a variety of views regarding when life begins and when ensoulment occurs. In this nation all are free to live according to their consciences and religious beliefs. No one religious philosophy should govern the law for all Americans.
In conclusion, being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion. Bishop Melvin Talbert of the United Methodist Church put it this way in a 1996 sermon: "In reality, there are many of us who believe that choice is the most logical and the most responsible position any religious institution can take on this issue. My sisters and brothers, we are dealing with something that is deeply spiritual and cannot be left to those who would choose to politicize this issue and further victimize those who must ultimately decide for themselves."


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Gun Crime Statistics--Some Sobering Facts

The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - there are 89 guns for every 100 Americans, compared to 6 in England and Wales.

And the murder figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 550 murders per year. In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

The Biblical Basis for
Being Pro-Choice
The Bible never mentions abortion, but it does offer support for choice.
BY: Marjorie Brahms Signer
586 20 32 2
The 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, created a huge amount of misinformation about the nature of being pro-choice. Starting with President Bush's proclamation of National Sanctity of Human Life Day, the purpose seems to be to portray those who are pro-choice as godless and heartless. But being pro-choice is firmly grounded in the Bible.
Who is pro-choice and religious? Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, and Reform and Conservative Judaism. These organizations have a diversity of views about abortion and recognize it as a morally complex decision that must be made by the person most affected--the woman.
Among religious groups, the pro-choice position is nuanced, recognizing that most people believe abortion--as well as bearing children-are matters for individual conscience, not government or religious mandate. Pro-choice denominations don't seek to impose their views on others or to make them law. They recognize that in our pluralistic society, politicians must not be allowed to impose laws about childbearing based on any particular belief about when life begins. The notion that life begins at the moment of conception is a belief held by some, but not all, religious groups.
In fact, the Bible never mentions abortion and does not deal with the question of when life begins. Genesis 2:7 (God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being") refers to the specific, unique event of the creation of Adam out of the earth. It says nothing about the process of conception, pregnancy, and birth.
The Book of Exodus clearly indicates that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person (Chapter 21:22-23). That verse indicates that if a man pushes a pregnant woman and she then miscarries, he is required only to pay a fine. If the fetus were considered a full person, he would be punished more severely as though he had taken a life. [Editor's note: Read more detailed pro-choice and pro-life analyses of Exodus 21.]
Religions have many different--and changing--tenets about abortion. Some oppose abortion in all cases because they believe human life begins when an egg and sperm meet. They hold this belief even though medical science defines pregnancy as beginning with the implantation of the fertilized egg. Others believe abortion must be allowed in cases of rape and incest. Some believe abortion is required in certain circumstances, such as when a woman's life is in danger.
Many religions believe the decision must be the woman's because she is the person most affected.
Christians and Jews agree that all life is sacred--the life of a woman as well as the potential life of a fetus. Many Protestant Christians emphasize the New Testament's teaching of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that everyone has direct access to God and therefore the ability to do God's will.
The Bible tells us that God acts within human beings to set us free and enable us to assume responsibility for ourselves. If we make wrong choices, God forgives us. Humans, by the grace of God, have developed medicine, surgery, and psychiatry to prolong and enhance life. These same medical approaches can be chosen to prolong or enhance the life of a woman for whom a specific pregnancy would be dangerous.
All Jewish authorities base their understanding of the Jewish view of abortion on two basic Jewish principles--that preserving life is of paramount importance, and that the fetus does not possess the same status as a living woman. Most Jewish thinkers throughout history have held that when a woman's life or health is at stake, abortion is permissible and sometimes even mandatory, regardless of the stage of fetal development.
Together, pro-choice Christians and Jews base their views on these biblical principles:
Stewardship. Genesis tells us we are created in God's image and that with that gift comes the responsibility for ".every living thing that moves upon the earth" (1:27-28). It follows that, as moral agents, women have the God-given obligation to make decisions about the course of action that seems most responsible in cases of unwelcome pregnancy.
Free will. Created in God's image, we are endowed with the ability to make moral choices. This ability is the very basis of an individual's dignity and autonomy.
Personhood. The Bible's portrait of personhood centers on the woman and man who bear the image of God and live in responsible relation to God.
The sanctity of life. All religions revere life. It is because we believe in the sanctity of all human life that we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy on women and families. We pray for a world in which every child is wanted, loved, and cared for. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life that we believe a child has the right to enter the world wanted and loved. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy upon individual women, upon their loved ones and their families, and we recognize that they, not we, must determine what is best for those directly concerned and involved.
Respect. The Bible places full responsibility for procreation in the hands of parents. Requiring a woman to complete a pregnancy against her will devalues motherhood and shows lack of respect for women.
Religious Liberty. Religious Americans honor the dignity and value of all human life but recognize that different religious traditions hold a variety of views regarding when life begins and when ensoulment occurs. In this nation all are free to live according to their consciences and religious beliefs. No one religious philosophy should govern the law for all Americans.
In conclusion, being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion. Bishop Melvin Talbert of the United Methodist Church put it this way in a 1996 sermon: "In reality, there are many of us who believe that choice is the most logical and the most responsible position any religious institution can take on this issue. My sisters and brothers, we are dealing with something that is deeply spiritual and cannot be left to those who would choose to politicize this issue and further victimize those who must ultimately decide for themselves."
 
ANTI-CHOICERS DON'T HAVE A BIBLICAL LEG TO STAND ON

The Bible is Pro-Choice
by Joyce Arthur
First published in "Humanist in Canada," No. 90 (Vol. 22, #3) Autumn, 1989. Revised and expanded August 2001.
Most anti-choicers claim obedience to the divinely inspired word of God, so let's review their performance by taking a look at what the Bible has to say about abortion. Extremely little, actually, but what it does say appears to be in direct contradiction to the anti-choice stance.
First, let's look at the Bible passages that anti-choicers generally cite to prop up their position. Incredibly, they rely mainly on just three that have nothing to do with abortion. Apparently, anti-choicers believe these vague passages say something significant about the status of the fetus, although it's impossible for any reasonable person to discern exactly what. The first such passage is found in Psalms 139:13-16:
"For Thou didst form my inward parts; thou didst weave me together in my mother's womb. I praise thee, for thou art fearful and wonderful. Wonderful are thy works! Thou knowest me right well; my frame was not hidden from thee, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance; in thy book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
All this passage states is that God is directly involved in the creation of a fetus and knows its future. This is useless for the anti-choice position, since God creates all living things, including trees and bugs. Plus, just because God is supposedly omniscient doesn't give fetuses any special statusit simply means God already knows whether they will live or die. It is dishonest to conclude from this verse that a fetus is a human being deserving of more protection than women. The passage is poetic prose that anti-choicers have twisted and trivialized by giving it a literal, objective meaning where there is none.
The second passage used by anti-choicers is similar:
"Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born, I consecrated you'..." (Jeremiah 1:4-5)
Unfortunately, anti-choicers usually stop right there, and forget the rest of Verse 5, which negates their preferred meaning:
"...'and I appointed you a prophet to the nations.'"
This passage is specific to one, very special personJeremiah the prophet, whom God has called to provide miraculous powers and authority to the world. Since we are not all destined to be divine prophets, this verse cannot be construed as applying to any fetus except the unborn Jeremiah. Again, anti-choicers are being dishonest by pulling this verse totally out of its context.
The third passage quoted by anti-choicers tells the story of Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, and Mary the mother of Jesus, while both were pregnant:
"In those days, Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." (Luke 1:39-41)
This passage simply records a fetus kicking in the womb. We can only wonder in befuddlement why anti-choicers think this would help them. Besides, John the Baptist is yet another divine fetal prophet ordained by God. Since very few of us are chosen by God before birth to herald the arrival of the Messiah on earth, we cannot claim that this passage venerates all fetuses.
Let's turn now to the several Biblical passages that actually mention abortion or miscarriage. Ironically, in spite of God giving divine status to the prophet Jeremiah while he was in the womb, Jeremiah emphatically rejects this for himself. Later in his book, he wishes he had been aborted! The following passage is a lamentation by Jeremiah:
"Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great." (Jeremiah 20:14-17)
In verse 18, he concludes with the anguished cry:
"Why did I come forth from the womb to see toil and sorrow, and spend my days in shame?"
Three other Biblical passages question the value of an unhappy, painful, or "wicked" life. They aver that it is better to suffer an "untimely birth" (i.e, be miscarried) than live a miserable existence, or worse, live as an evil unbeliever:
"If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into darkness, and in darkness its name is covered; moreover it has not seen the sun or known anything; yet it finds rest rather than he." (Ecclesiastes 6:3-5)

"Or why was I not as a hidden untimely birth, as infants that never see the light? There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. There the prisoners are at ease together; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and the great are there, and the slave is free from his master." (Job 3:16-19)

"The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth, speaking lies. They have venom like the venom of a serpent. ... Let them vanish like water that runs away, like grass let them be trodden down and wither. Let them be like the snail which dissolves into slime, like the untimely birth that never sees the sun." (Psalms 58:3-8)
Far from bolstering the arguments of anti-choicers, these verses prove the Bible is pro-choice. The contention that quality of life is a more worthwhile pursuit than simply life for the sake of life is a basic pro-choice stance.
One of the few biblical passages that approaches the status of the fetus is Exodus 21:22-25, which reads:
"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
This passage allows only for the punishment of a man who injures a woman causing her to miscarry. However, a careful scrutiny of these verses uncovers a startling revelation. A miscarriage is punishable only by a fine, yet if there is any further harm, such as the death of the woman, the penalty is life for life! The implication of this passage is clearthe life of the unborn child is not accorded anywhere near the same status as the life of the woman. To put it another way, the man who causes a woman to miscarry is guilty not of murder, but a misdemeanor.[1]
Since these verses do not support anti-choicers' position, we must look elsewhere. Indeed, we find another passage that touches on miscarriage. It is a curse that the prophet Hosea entreats the Lord to inflict upon the Caananite tribe of Ephraim. It reads:
"Ephraim's glory shall fly away like a birdno birth, no pregnancy, no conception! Even if they bring up children, I will bereave them till none is left. Woe to them when I depart from them! Ephraim's sons, as I have seen, are destined for a prey; Ephraim must lead forth his sons to slaughter. Give them, O Lordwhat wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." (Hosea 9:11-14).
It is evident this is of little use for the anti-choice cause. In fact, we see that it is not considered out of line to ask God to burden our enemies with spontaneous, God-given abortions.
Even more shocking, we find that God actually mandates abortion when the fetus is a product of adultery (Numbers 5). A jealous and suspicious husband should bring his wife to the local priest, who forces the woman to drink a poisonous "water of bitterness" to bring on God's "curse". If she experiences "bitter pain," if her "belly swells" and her "thigh rots," she fails the test and becomes an outcast. Virtually all Biblical scholars agree that this voodoo ritual and its cloaked euphemisms refer to an induced (not to mention unsafe) abortion. The word "thigh" in the Old Testament usually means genitals, but in this case, it refers to the uterus and its contents. One alternate Bible translation reads, "She will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb." (New International Version)
Such Biblical support for abortion forces us to speculate that perhaps what anti-choicers mean by God's law is that unequivocal Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13), since they condemn abortion as murder. That there is no Biblical justification for this belief, we have already seen. Whatever the arguments are for the full humanity of the fetus, it is clear they do not originate from the "Holy Scriptures." Be that as it may, let's indulge anti-choicers' claims for a moment and probe into the nature of the Sixth Commandment and its implications for the abortion battle.
One would think that although fallible human beings may or may not abide by this commandment, certainly God himself, as the creator of this law, and as the omnipotent, wise, and perfect being that he is thought to be, should be setting a shining example for us by acting as the quintessential role model.
What do we find when we examine the Scriptures? Regrettably, even a casual search uncovers the most shocking, barbaric, and revolting atrocities, all directly committed, ordered, or condoned by God himself. However, let's put most of these aside for now and confine ourselves solely to the passages that deal with God's murder of children. Unfortunately, there are many. Let's begin with this little gem, a popular story some of us first learned in Sunday school:
"And Moses said, 'Thus says the Lord: About midnight I will go forth in the midst of Egypt and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die; from the first-born of Pharaoh who sits upon his throne, even to the first-born of the maidservant who is behind the mill; and all the first-born of the cattle.'" (Exodus 11:4-5)
In Exodus 12:29, God carries out the dastardly deed.
Moses, the great liberator of Israel and God's right hand man, so to speak, had this to say to his victorious soldiers fresh from battle with all their "booty:"
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)
In war of course, children are not exempt from being victims. Numerous verses and passages document that entire populations, including children, were killed off at the command of God. For example, God orders one of his faithful servants to:
"...go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:3. See also Deuteronomy 2:34 and 3:6; Joshua 10:28-40, 11:10-12, 14, 15, 20 and 21; and Judges 21:10-12.)
A passage of joyful prose from the book of Psalms praises the destruction of even the smallest of enemies:
"O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" (Psalms 137:8)
All this would seem to contradict the idea of a higher, more noble God's law as anti-choicers would have it. Not only is there no specific law against abortion, but a miscarriage caused during a fight is punished by a slap on the wrist, God himself intervenes to abort the products of adultery, and he thinks nothing of murdering countless babies and children. Granted, most of these young victims were, in God's eyes, wicked sinners and evil unbelievers, or at least the offspring of same, so they deserved to die. If this is the case, since we can assume that some women seeking abortions are not particularly religious, anti-choicers would be following God's example by encouraging these women to abort their heathen fetuses.
Let's turn to the anti-choice claim that life begins at conception, and that fetuses and embryos are personsfull and separate human beings with rights. For religious anti-choicers, this usually means a belief that fertilized eggs are infused with souls. But the Bible clearly states that life and personhood begins with "breath". With the creation of "man" in Genesis 2:7, God:
"...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being."
The Hebrew word for human being or living soul is nephesh, which is also the word for "breathing." Nephesh occurs over 700 times in the Bible as the identifying factor in human life. Obviously, fetuses do not breath and therefore cannot be considered as human beings according to the Bible. Here is another verse that reinforces this conclusion. God says:
"Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live." (Ezekiel 37:5)
No-one can know when life really begins, including Bible-believing anti-choicers, as this verse makes clear:
"As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything. (Ecclesiastes 11:5)
In fact, it is the height of arrogance for anti-choicers to think they know and understand God's ways and will, especially since the Bible can be, and is, interpreted in many different ways by other believers.
However, one verse may shed some intriguing light on precisely when fetusesor rather, infantsbecome persons, and which ones aren't even worth counting, according to God himself. When Moses conducts a census, God instructs him to count:
"...all the first-born males of the people of Israel, from a month old and upward..." (Numbers 3:40)
God also tells Moses how to calculate the value of persons being offered to God:
"If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)
Mercifully, we've learned not to put price tags on peoples' heads anymoreno thanks to God. But the fact that God assigns no value whatsoever to newborn infants or fetuses means that "God-fearing" anti-choicers are openly defying their God!
There is another anti-abortion assumption that rests in part on the faulty premise of fertilized eggs having souls. This is the idea that human life is sacred, including life in the womb. One could certainly argue that human life has great value without bringing religion into it at all, but the word "sacred" in the religious sense seems to connote something beyond mere value. It implies a special relationship with God. Indeed, Webster's dictionary defines sacred as "dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of deity," or "worthy of religious veneration; holy." What precisely then do anti-choicers mean when they claim that a single-celled fertilized egg is holy? Are we supposed to worship it? Or is it supposed to worship God?
Despite the obvious high regard anti-choicers place on the life of the fetus, they would likely be offended if we accused them of worshipping it. But it's difficult to avoid the impression that the fetus has taken on the reverent and obsessive qualities of a religious fetish. Think for a moment about anti-abortion groups that protest on streets and in front of clinics with graphic signs displaying aborted fetuses, and consider the uncanny parallels one could draw between them and a cult of fetish worshippers. The point becomes especially telling when we see their disrespect for the well-being of born children.
What about the suggestion that the function of the sacred fetus is to worship God? No doubt anti-choicers, as Christians, contend that we're all here to worship God, and seen in this light, it would be quite presumptuous for us to deny God any potential worshippers. The obvious corollary to this is that some of these fetuses will not grow up to worship God at all! The implications are horrifying. Anti-choicers insist on bringing into this world children, who not only may be unwanted and may suffer because of that, but who also may be destined to spend an eternity burning in hell!
An investigation of the Bible indeed indicates that anti-choicers are in direct conflict with their Scriptures when they insist that all must conform to their "life-is-sacred" abortion policy. For one thing, nowhere does the Bible state that human life is inherently sacred. What the Bible does say, emphatically, over and over and over again, is that only "believers," that is, the chosen people, the elect, and the righteous, are holy in the sight of God. Everyone else is dirt. The very existence of an unbeliever is an insult to God, and both sinners and unbelievers merit the most painful of punishments, culminating in a one-way ticket to everlasting hell. Literally hundreds of Biblical passages throughout the Old and New Testaments convey the essence of these pronouncements.
Humanity's special and sacred relationship with God rests also upon the very manner of our creation. In the beginning, God suggests (apparently to his fellow gods):
" 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.' So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." (Genesis 1:26-27)
There we have it. People were created in the very image and likeness of God himself. With humankind given such an exalted, almost divine status, how can we dare to even contemplate destroying potential images of God? Apart from the extreme egocentrism of this doctrine, there is at least one glaring problem here which the Bible itself helpfully points out to us. According to the New Testament, only half the human race was created in the image of Godthe male half. In I Corinthians 11:7, we are told the following:
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."
Several other passages explain how the weakness and shamefulness of woman's nature make her unfit for sacred duties and privileges; how the husband's obligation to his wife is to sanctify her (he is automatically sanctified being a man) and how her only hope of salvation lies in childbearing (1 Corinthians 14:34, Ephesians 5:21-27, 1 Timothy 2:9-15).
If this is all true (and we have it straight from God's own word), then half the human race isn't sacred at all! This means that we need not outlaw abortion of female fetuses on religious grounds. Luckily, with the handy tool of amniocentesis, we can quickly identify these "sex offenders" and eliminate them so they'll never have the chance to tempt man into sin again.
So ends our little foray into anti-choicers' own territory, the Bible. Perhaps, if they truly feel inspired to follow God's higher law, they would do well to embark on a careful study of the Bible to find out exactly what God supposedly said before rushing out to defend his word. That which they hold sacred they have twisted or ignored to suit their own personal agenda.
"Guard your steps when you go to the house of God; to draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know that they are doing evil." (Ecclesiastes 5:1).
(Biblical quotations are taken from the Revised Standard Version.)

ENDNOTE [1] Some conservative Biblical scholars have disputed the translation of the word "miscarriage" in the Exodus 21:22-25 passage, claiming it means "premature birth." This is indefensible, however. First, the original Hebrew word is "yatsa" which literally means to "lose her offspring". Second, premature births in the ancient world resulted in almost certain death for the fetus/infant, since only modern medicine can save premature babies. Third, other scholars have shown that the passage was derived directly from more ancient pagan laws, which clearly referred to miscarriage. The Code of Hammurabi (209, 210) reads: "If a seignior struck a[notherl seignior's daughter and has caused her to have a miscarriage [literally, caused her to drop that of her womb], he shall pay ten shekels of silver for her fetus. If that woman had died, they shall put his daughter to death." Hittite Laws (1.17) read: "If anyone causes a free woman to miscarry [literally, drives out the embryo], if (it is) the 10th month, he shall give 10 shekels of silver, if (it is) the 5th month, he shall give 5 shekels of silver..." (Bowen Ward, 1987)


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

We need to put that to a vote and make sure that as it says in Article XV/1:
"The right of the citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State...."


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

The Biblical Basis for
Being Pro-Choice
The Bible never mentions abortion, but it does offer support for choice.
BY: Marjorie Brahms Signer
586 20 32 2
The 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the U.S. Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, created a huge amount of misinformation about the nature of being pro-choice. Starting with President Bush's proclamation of National Sanctity of Human Life Day, the purpose seems to be to portray those who are pro-choice as godless and heartless. But being pro-choice is firmly grounded in the Bible.
Who is pro-choice and religious? Denominations with official and long-standing pro-choice positions include the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the United Methodist Church, the United Church of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, and Reform and Conservative Judaism. These organizations have a diversity of views about abortion and recognize it as a morally complex decision that must be made by the person most affected--the woman.
Among religious groups, the pro-choice position is nuanced, recognizing that most people believe abortion--as well as bearing children-are matters for individual conscience, not government or religious mandate. Pro-choice denominations don't seek to impose their views on others or to make them law. They recognize that in our pluralistic society, politicians must not be allowed to impose laws about childbearing based on any particular belief about when life begins. The notion that life begins at the moment of conception is a belief held by some, but not all, religious groups.
In fact, the Bible never mentions abortion and does not deal with the question of when life begins. Genesis 2:7 (God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being") refers to the specific, unique event of the creation of Adam out of the earth. It says nothing about the process of conception, pregnancy, and birth.
The Book of Exodus clearly indicates that the fetus does not have the same legal status as a person (Chapter 21:22-23). That verse indicates that if a man pushes a pregnant woman and she then miscarries, he is required only to pay a fine. If the fetus were considered a full person, he would be punished more severely as though he had taken a life. [Editor's note: Read more detailed pro-choice and pro-life analyses of Exodus 21.]
Religions have many different--and changing--tenets about abortion. Some oppose abortion in all cases because they believe human life begins when an egg and sperm meet. They hold this belief even though medical science defines pregnancy as beginning with the implantation of the fertilized egg. Others believe abortion must be allowed in cases of rape and incest. Some believe abortion is required in certain circumstances, such as when a woman's life is in danger.
Many religions believe the decision must be the woman's because she is the person most affected.
Christians and Jews agree that all life is sacred--the life of a woman as well as the potential life of a fetus. Many Protestant Christians emphasize the New Testament's teaching of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that everyone has direct access to God and therefore the ability to do God's will.
The Bible tells us that God acts within human beings to set us free and enable us to assume responsibility for ourselves. If we make wrong choices, God forgives us. Humans, by the grace of God, have developed medicine, surgery, and psychiatry to prolong and enhance life. These same medical approaches can be chosen to prolong or enhance the life of a woman for whom a specific pregnancy would be dangerous.
All Jewish authorities base their understanding of the Jewish view of abortion on two basic Jewish principles--that preserving life is of paramount importance, and that the fetus does not possess the same status as a living woman. Most Jewish thinkers throughout history have held that when a woman's life or health is at stake, abortion is permissible and sometimes even mandatory, regardless of the stage of fetal development.
Together, pro-choice Christians and Jews base their views on these biblical principles:
Stewardship. Genesis tells us we are created in God's image and that with that gift comes the responsibility for ".every living thing that moves upon the earth" (1:27-28). It follows that, as moral agents, women have the God-given obligation to make decisions about the course of action that seems most responsible in cases of unwelcome pregnancy.
Free will. Created in God's image, we are endowed with the ability to make moral choices. This ability is the very basis of an individual's dignity and autonomy.
Personhood. The Bible's portrait of personhood centers on the woman and man who bear the image of God and live in responsible relation to God.
The sanctity of life. All religions revere life. It is because we believe in the sanctity of all human life that we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy on women and families. We pray for a world in which every child is wanted, loved, and cared for. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life that we believe a child has the right to enter the world wanted and loved. Because we believe in the sanctity of human life we are sensitive to the effects of an unwanted pregnancy upon individual women, upon their loved ones and their families, and we recognize that they, not we, must determine what is best for those directly concerned and involved.
Respect. The Bible places full responsibility for procreation in the hands of parents. Requiring a woman to complete a pregnancy against her will devalues motherhood and shows lack of respect for women.
Religious Liberty. Religious Americans honor the dignity and value of all human life but recognize that different religious traditions hold a variety of views regarding when life begins and when ensoulment occurs. In this nation all are free to live according to their consciences and religious beliefs. No one religious philosophy should govern the law for all Americans.
In conclusion, being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion. Bishop Melvin Talbert of the United Methodist Church put it this way in a 1996 sermon: "In reality, there are many of us who believe that choice is the most logical and the most responsible position any religious institution can take on this issue. My sisters and brothers, we are dealing with something that is deeply spiritual and cannot be left to those who would choose to politicize this issue and further victimize those who must ultimately decide for themselves."
 
ANTI-CHOICERS DON'T HAVE A BIBLICAL LEG TO STAND ON

The Bible is Pro-Choice
by Joyce Arthur
First published in "Humanist in Canada," No. 90 (Vol. 22, #3) Autumn, 1989. Revised and expanded August 2001.
Most anti-choicers claim obedience to the divinely inspired word of God, so let's review their performance by taking a look at what the Bible has to say about abortion. Extremely little, actually, but what it does say appears to be in direct contradiction to the anti-choice stance.
First, let's look at the Bible passages that anti-choicers generally cite to prop up their position. Incredibly, they rely mainly on just three that have nothing to do with abortion. Apparently, anti-choicers believe these vague passages say something significant about the status of the fetus, although it's impossible for any reasonable person to discern exactly what. The first such passage is found in Psalms 139:13-16:
"For Thou didst form my inward parts; thou didst weave me together in my mother's womb. I praise thee, for thou art fearful and wonderful. Wonderful are thy works! Thou knowest me right well; my frame was not hidden from thee, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance; in thy book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them."
All this passage states is that God is directly involved in the creation of a fetus and knows its future. This is useless for the anti-choice position, since God creates all living things, including trees and bugs. Plus, just because God is supposedly omniscient doesn't give fetuses any special statusit simply means God already knows whether they will live or die. It is dishonest to conclude from this verse that a fetus is a human being deserving of more protection than women. The passage is poetic prose that anti-choicers have twisted and trivialized by giving it a literal, objective meaning where there is none.
The second passage used by anti-choicers is similar:
"Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born, I consecrated you'..." (Jeremiah 1:4-5)
Unfortunately, anti-choicers usually stop right there, and forget the rest of Verse 5, which negates their preferred meaning:
"...'and I appointed you a prophet to the nations.'"
This passage is specific to one, very special personJeremiah the prophet, whom God has called to provide miraculous powers and authority to the world. Since we are not all destined to be divine prophets, this verse cannot be construed as applying to any fetus except the unborn Jeremiah. Again, anti-choicers are being dishonest by pulling this verse totally out of its context.
The third passage quoted by anti-choicers tells the story of Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, and Mary the mother of Jesus, while both were pregnant:
"In those days, Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit." (Luke 1:39-41)
This passage simply records a fetus kicking in the womb. We can only wonder in befuddlement why anti-choicers think this would help them. Besides, John the Baptist is yet another divine fetal prophet ordained by God. Since very few of us are chosen by God before birth to herald the arrival of the Messiah on earth, we cannot claim that this passage venerates all fetuses.
Let's turn now to the several Biblical passages that actually mention abortion or miscarriage. Ironically, in spite of God giving divine status to the prophet Jeremiah while he was in the womb, Jeremiah emphatically rejects this for himself. Later in his book, he wishes he had been aborted! The following passage is a lamentation by Jeremiah:
"Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great." (Jeremiah 20:14-17)
In verse 18, he concludes with the anguished cry:
"Why did I come forth from the womb to see toil and sorrow, and spend my days in shame?"
Three other Biblical passages question the value of an unhappy, painful, or "wicked" life. They aver that it is better to suffer an "untimely birth" (i.e, be miscarried) than live a miserable existence, or worse, live as an evil unbeliever:
"If a man begets a hundred children, and lives many years, so that the days of his years are many, but he does not enjoy life's good things, and also has no burial, I say that an untimely birth is better off than he. For it comes into vanity and goes into darkness, and in darkness its name is covered; moreover it has not seen the sun or known anything; yet it finds rest rather than he." (Ecclesiastes 6:3-5)

"Or why was I not as a hidden untimely birth, as infants that never see the light? There the wicked cease from troubling, and there the weary are at rest. There the prisoners are at ease together; they hear not the voice of the taskmaster. The small and the great are there, and the slave is free from his master." (Job 3:16-19)

"The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth, speaking lies. They have venom like the venom of a serpent. ... Let them vanish like water that runs away, like grass let them be trodden down and wither. Let them be like the snail which dissolves into slime, like the untimely birth that never sees the sun." (Psalms 58:3-8)
Far from bolstering the arguments of anti-choicers, these verses prove the Bible is pro-choice. The contention that quality of life is a more worthwhile pursuit than simply life for the sake of life is a basic pro-choice stance.
One of the few biblical passages that approaches the status of the fetus is Exodus 21:22-25, which reads:
"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
This passage allows only for the punishment of a man who injures a woman causing her to miscarry. However, a careful scrutiny of these verses uncovers a startling revelation. A miscarriage is punishable only by a fine, yet if there is any further harm, such as the death of the woman, the penalty is life for life! The implication of this passage is clearthe life of the unborn child is not accorded anywhere near the same status as the life of the woman. To put it another way, the man who causes a woman to miscarry is guilty not of murder, but a misdemeanor.[1]
Since these verses do not support anti-choicers' position, we must look elsewhere. Indeed, we find another passage that touches on miscarriage. It is a curse that the prophet Hosea entreats the Lord to inflict upon the Caananite tribe of Ephraim. It reads:
"Ephraim's glory shall fly away like a birdno birth, no pregnancy, no conception! Even if they bring up children, I will bereave them till none is left. Woe to them when I depart from them! Ephraim's sons, as I have seen, are destined for a prey; Ephraim must lead forth his sons to slaughter. Give them, O Lordwhat wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts." (Hosea 9:11-14).
It is evident this is of little use for the anti-choice cause. In fact, we see that it is not considered out of line to ask God to burden our enemies with spontaneous, God-given abortions.
Even more shocking, we find that God actually mandates abortion when the fetus is a product of adultery (Numbers 5). A jealous and suspicious husband should bring his wife to the local priest, who forces the woman to drink a poisonous "water of bitterness" to bring on God's "curse". If she experiences "bitter pain," if her "belly swells" and her "thigh rots," she fails the test and becomes an outcast. Virtually all Biblical scholars agree that this voodoo ritual and its cloaked euphemisms refer to an induced (not to mention unsafe) abortion. The word "thigh" in the Old Testament usually means genitals, but in this case, it refers to the uterus and its contents. One alternate Bible translation reads, "She will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb." (New International Version)
Such Biblical support for abortion forces us to speculate that perhaps what anti-choicers mean by God's law is that unequivocal Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13), since they condemn abortion as murder. That there is no Biblical justification for this belief, we have already seen. Whatever the arguments are for the full humanity of the fetus, it is clear they do not originate from the "Holy Scriptures." Be that as it may, let's indulge anti-choicers' claims for a moment and probe into the nature of the Sixth Commandment and its implications for the abortion battle.
One would think that although fallible human beings may or may not abide by this commandment, certainly God himself, as the creator of this law, and as the omnipotent, wise, and perfect being that he is thought to be, should be setting a shining example for us by acting as the quintessential role model.
What do we find when we examine the Scriptures? Regrettably, even a casual search uncovers the most shocking, barbaric, and revolting atrocities, all directly committed, ordered, or condoned by God himself. However, let's put most of these aside for now and confine ourselves solely to the passages that deal with God's murder of children. Unfortunately, there are many. Let's begin with this little gem, a popular story some of us first learned in Sunday school:
"And Moses said, 'Thus says the Lord: About midnight I will go forth in the midst of Egypt and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die; from the first-born of Pharaoh who sits upon his throne, even to the first-born of the maidservant who is behind the mill; and all the first-born of the cattle.'" (Exodus 11:4-5)
In Exodus 12:29, God carries out the dastardly deed.
Moses, the great liberator of Israel and God's right hand man, so to speak, had this to say to his victorious soldiers fresh from battle with all their "booty:"
"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Numbers 31:17-18)
In war of course, children are not exempt from being victims. Numerous verses and passages document that entire populations, including children, were killed off at the command of God. For example, God orders one of his faithful servants to:
"...go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:3. See also Deuteronomy 2:34 and 3:6; Joshua 10:28-40, 11:10-12, 14, 15, 20 and 21; and Judges 21:10-12.)
A passage of joyful prose from the book of Psalms praises the destruction of even the smallest of enemies:
"O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" (Psalms 137:8)
All this would seem to contradict the idea of a higher, more noble God's law as anti-choicers would have it. Not only is there no specific law against abortion, but a miscarriage caused during a fight is punished by a slap on the wrist, God himself intervenes to abort the products of adultery, and he thinks nothing of murdering countless babies and children. Granted, most of these young victims were, in God's eyes, wicked sinners and evil unbelievers, or at least the offspring of same, so they deserved to die. If this is the case, since we can assume that some women seeking abortions are not particularly religious, anti-choicers would be following God's example by encouraging these women to abort their heathen fetuses.
Let's turn to the anti-choice claim that life begins at conception, and that fetuses and embryos are personsfull and separate human beings with rights. For religious anti-choicers, this usually means a belief that fertilized eggs are infused with souls. But the Bible clearly states that life and personhood begins with "breath". With the creation of "man" in Genesis 2:7, God:
"...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being."
The Hebrew word for human being or living soul is nephesh, which is also the word for "breathing." Nephesh occurs over 700 times in the Bible as the identifying factor in human life. Obviously, fetuses do not breath and therefore cannot be considered as human beings according to the Bible. Here is another verse that reinforces this conclusion. God says:
"Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live." (Ezekiel 37:5)
No-one can know when life really begins, including Bible-believing anti-choicers, as this verse makes clear:
"As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything. (Ecclesiastes 11:5)
In fact, it is the height of arrogance for anti-choicers to think they know and understand God's ways and will, especially since the Bible can be, and is, interpreted in many different ways by other believers.
However, one verse may shed some intriguing light on precisely when fetusesor rather, infantsbecome persons, and which ones aren't even worth counting, according to God himself. When Moses conducts a census, God instructs him to count:
"...all the first-born males of the people of Israel, from a month old and upward..." (Numbers 3:40)
God also tells Moses how to calculate the value of persons being offered to God:
"If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be for a male five shekels of silver, and for a female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." (Leviticus 27:6)
Mercifully, we've learned not to put price tags on peoples' heads anymoreno thanks to God. But the fact that God assigns no value whatsoever to newborn infants or fetuses means that "God-fearing" anti-choicers are openly defying their God!
There is another anti-abortion assumption that rests in part on the faulty premise of fertilized eggs having souls. This is the idea that human life is sacred, including life in the womb. One could certainly argue that human life has great value without bringing religion into it at all, but the word "sacred" in the religious sense seems to connote something beyond mere value. It implies a special relationship with God. Indeed, Webster's dictionary defines sacred as "dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of deity," or "worthy of religious veneration; holy." What precisely then do anti-choicers mean when they claim that a single-celled fertilized egg is holy? Are we supposed to worship it? Or is it supposed to worship God?
Despite the obvious high regard anti-choicers place on the life of the fetus, they would likely be offended if we accused them of worshipping it. But it's difficult to avoid the impression that the fetus has taken on the reverent and obsessive qualities of a religious fetish. Think for a moment about anti-abortion groups that protest on streets and in front of clinics with graphic signs displaying aborted fetuses, and consider the uncanny parallels one could draw between them and a cult of fetish worshippers. The point becomes especially telling when we see their disrespect for the well-being of born children.
What about the suggestion that the function of the sacred fetus is to worship God? No doubt anti-choicers, as Christians, contend that we're all here to worship God, and seen in this light, it would be quite presumptuous for us to deny God any potential worshippers. The obvious corollary to this is that some of these fetuses will not grow up to worship God at all! The implications are horrifying. Anti-choicers insist on bringing into this world children, who not only may be unwanted and may suffer because of that, but who also may be destined to spend an eternity burning in hell!
An investigation of the Bible indeed indicates that anti-choicers are in direct conflict with their Scriptures when they insist that all must conform to their "life-is-sacred" abortion policy. For one thing, nowhere does the Bible state that human life is inherently sacred. What the Bible does say, emphatically, over and over and over again, is that only "believers," that is, the chosen people, the elect, and the righteous, are holy in the sight of God. Everyone else is dirt. The very existence of an unbeliever is an insult to God, and both sinners and unbelievers merit the most painful of punishments, culminating in a one-way ticket to everlasting hell. Literally hundreds of Biblical passages throughout the Old and New Testaments convey the essence of these pronouncements.
Humanity's special and sacred relationship with God rests also upon the very manner of our creation. In the beginning, God suggests (apparently to his fellow gods):
" 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.' So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." (Genesis 1:26-27)
There we have it. People were created in the very image and likeness of God himself. With humankind given such an exalted, almost divine status, how can we dare to even contemplate destroying potential images of God? Apart from the extreme egocentrism of this doctrine, there is at least one glaring problem here which the Bible itself helpfully points out to us. According to the New Testament, only half the human race was created in the image of Godthe male half. In I Corinthians 11:7, we are told the following:
"For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man."
Several other passages explain how the weakness and shamefulness of woman's nature make her unfit for sacred duties and privileges; how the husband's obligation to his wife is to sanctify her (he is automatically sanctified being a man) and how her only hope of salvation lies in childbearing (1 Corinthians 14:34, Ephesians 5:21-27, 1 Timothy 2:9-15).
If this is all true (and we have it straight from God's own word), then half the human race isn't sacred at all! This means that we need not outlaw abortion of female fetuses on religious grounds. Luckily, with the handy tool of amniocentesis, we can quickly identify these "sex offenders" and eliminate them so they'll never have the chance to tempt man into sin again.
So ends our little foray into anti-choicers' own territory, the Bible. Perhaps, if they truly feel inspired to follow God's higher law, they would do well to embark on a careful study of the Bible to find out exactly what God supposedly said before rushing out to defend his word. That which they hold sacred they have twisted or ignored to suit their own personal agenda.
"Guard your steps when you go to the house of God; to draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know that they are doing evil." (Ecclesiastes 5:1).
(Biblical quotations are taken from the Revised Standard Version.)

ENDNOTE [1] Some conservative Biblical scholars have disputed the translation of the word "miscarriage" in the Exodus 21:22-25 passage, claiming it means "premature birth." This is indefensible, however. First, the original Hebrew word is "yatsa" which literally means to "lose her offspring". Second, premature births in the ancient world resulted in almost certain death for the fetus/infant, since only modern medicine can save premature babies. Third, other scholars have shown that the passage was derived directly from more ancient pagan laws, which clearly referred to miscarriage. The Code of Hammurabi (209, 210) reads: "If a seignior struck a[notherl seignior's daughter and has caused her to have a miscarriage [literally, caused her to drop that of her womb], he shall pay ten shekels of silver for her fetus. If that woman had died, they shall put his daughter to death." Hittite Laws (1.17) read: "If anyone causes a free woman to miscarry [literally, drives out the embryo], if (it is) the 10th month, he shall give 10 shekels of silver, if (it is) the 5th month, he shall give 5 shekels of silver..." (Bowen Ward, 1987)


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Guns And Suicide

Some research shows an association between household firearm ownership and gun suicide rates.[10][11] For example, it was found that individuals in a firearm owning home are close to five times more likely to commit suicide than those individuals who do not own firearms.[12] However, other research found a statistical association among a group of fourteen developed nations but that statistical association was lost when additional countries were included.[13] During the 1980s and early 1990s, there was a strong upward trend in adolescent suicides with a gun,[14] as well as a sharp overall increase in suicides among those age 75 and over.[15] In the United States, where suicides outnumber homicides 2:1,[16] firearms remain the most common method of suicide, accounting for 52.1% of all suicides committed during 2005.[17]


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

How Christians view other religions
Views of Protestant, Roman Catholic,
and Eastern Orthodox churches

Sponsored link.


Topics in this essay:
Conservative Christians

Roman Catholics

Liberal Christians

Who is right?

Public opinion polls


Conservative Christians viewing non-Christian religions:
Their beliefs differ:
Many conservative Christians are exclusionists (i.e. they believe that their own denomination and those who agree with them are the only valid faith, while all other groups are in serious error).

Some are inclusionists (i.e. they believe that their group's beliefs are fully true, while all other groups only have part of the truth).
They see their own faith group, as based upon the Word of God as expressed in the Bible. Generally, they believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. Most believe in the traditional Christian belief that an individual will be sent to Hell when she/he dies if she/he has not first repented of their sins and then been "saved" by trusting Jesus as Lord and Savior, while still alive. This would include essentially all members of non-Christian faith groups and many members of Christian denominations.
They may view other world religions as one of the following:
only partially true, or
mostly worthless, or
influenced by Satan or
actually controlled by Satan, or
a variety of Satanism.
In addition, many conservative Christians do not recognize other Christian denominations as being truly Christian. This is seen in their local ministerial associations which are frequently separate from the mainline/liberal Christian ministerial group in the same city. It is also seen in their attacks on more liberal Christian denominations and on new religious movements which teach beliefs that are different from their own, and at variance from historical Christian beliefs.
One of the most common types of complaint mail that we receive demonstrates this exclusion of other Christian faith groups: Letters from Fundamentalist Christians often complain that we include such groups as the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses,Unificationists, etc. in our lists of Christian denominations. They often regard Catholics as Pagans, Mormons as Gnostics, and Jehovah's Witnesses, Unificationists, etc. as an anti-Christian cults.
Some conservative Christians believe that the Gods and Goddesses of other religions are actually demons. Thus, they see little difference among Hinduism, Buddhism, Satanism, Wicca, other forms of Neopaganism, and all other non-Christian religions. They believe that while members of these religions think that they are worshiping deities, they are really interacting with evil spirits or with Satan himself.
They generally recognize the existence of spiritual power in other faith groups' rituals, services and leaders. But they often attribute that power to demonic spirits, and describe it as a form of counterfeit power which may appear to be of God, but which originates in powers of evil.
They agree with those passages in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) that state that unsaved people view the Gospel message is nonsense and/or undecipherable. It is only when a person is saved -- i.e. becomes part of the "Body of Christ" -- that the Holy Spirit will intervene in their life, and sanctify them. Only after the person is saved will the Gospel message become clear to them. Those who are not saved cannot be trusted to give wise advice or to teach accurate beliefs, because they are not empowered by the Holy Spirit to understand and speak the truth.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Guns and Homicide

Homicide is defined as the intentional and illegal death caused by one individual on another and in this case with a firearm. In a recent study by the UN, it was found that firearms were used in an average of 60% of all homicides.[20] In 2010 USA homicides, guns are the weapon of choice, especially for multiple homicides.[


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Who is right?
Religious diversity is a given, at least in North America. The U.S. has been called the most religiously diverse nation in the world. 3 About 76% of Americans currently identify themselves as Christians. About 14% do not follow any organized religion. The rest follow an amazing array of non-Christian religions, from Asatru to Zoroastrianism. In addition, the religious composition of the U.S. is changing rapidly: the percentage of Christians is dropping almost one percentage point a year; those not affiliated with any religion are increasing over one half percentage points a year.
All of these numbers and trends are emphasizing the importance of how each faith group reacts to this increasing religious diversity. The fundamental question is whether a group's understanding of religious truth includes or excludes the validity of other faith groups' beliefs. There are three popular approaches to this question:
Exclusivism: the belief that their faith group is the only completely true religion, and that all others are false, and perhaps Satanic in nature.

Inclusivism: the belief that one's faith group is the only completely true religion. However, truth is also found in other religions.
Pluralism: the belief that all of the tens of thousands of faith groups in the world are valid and true, when viewed from within their particular culture.
Unfortunately, excluding other religions can lead to misunderstandings and conflict. Some Christians can view other religions as anti-Christian whereas others see them as un-Christian. Kerr Cuhulain, a respected Neopagan, wrote about the attitudes of some Christians towards his religion of Wicca: "This is exclusivism: the idea that there can only be one true faith. The same individuals who make this suggestion usually accuse any faith or Christian denomination other than their own of being anti-Christian or Satanic...We [Wiccans] are not anti-Christian. We are simply different." Problems can occur when individuals convert their beliefs into practice. Religious minorities in Canada and the United States have been heavily discriminated against. Anti-Semitism is believed to be responsible for the largest number of serious religious attacks in these two countries. However, those Wiccans who are open with their faith have probably suffered the greatest on a per-capita basis. There have been incidents of lynching, attempted mass murder by stoning, shooting, assaults, firebombing, and other criminal acts against Wiccans and other Neopagans


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

RELIGONSMany ways to God? Arent all religions basically the same?

See this page in: German
When Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and otherspray to their god, all of those individuals are actually praying to the same god, but simply using different names for that deity.
registered opinion of four of every ten American adults (Barna poll)
Are these Americans right or wrong? Mahatma Gandhi of India once said:
The soul of religion is one, but it is encased in a multitude of forms.
Is this true or false?
In reality, there is only one religion, the religion ofGod. This one religion is continually evolving, and each particular religious system represents a stage in the evolution of the whole, claims the Bahá'í faith on its official Web site at bahai.org.
Are the Bahá'ís correct or incorrect? What about the Hindus?
In whatever way men approach Me, even so do I go to them.
quoted from the Hindu scripture by Swami Chidananda of Divine Life Society
Is Christianity's claim of uniqueness and exclusivity misleading and baseless? Or is it necessarily true?

Even a cursory examination of comparative belief charts and data*quickly reveals that different religionsmake very different truth claims on a number of even basic issues. And they do so in a definitive manner. In other words, as any knowledgeable student of comparative religions will tell you, everyreligionnot just Christianityclaims exclusivity.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

INDIAN RELIGIOUS THOUGHT
(Delivered under the auspices of tile Brooklyn Ethical Society, in the Art Gallery of tile Pouch Mansion, Clinton Avenue, Brooklyn, U.S.A.)
India, although only half the size of the United States, contains a population of over two hundred and ninety millions, and there are three religions which hold sway over them  the Mohammedan, the Buddhist (including the Jain), and the Hindu. The adherents of the first mentioned number about sixty millions, of the second about nine millions, while the last embrace nearly two hundred and six millions. The cardinal features of the Hindu religion are founded on the meditative and speculative philosophy and on the ethical teachings contained in the various books of the Vedas, which assert that the universe is infinite in space and eternal in duration. It never had a beginning, and it never will have an end. Innumerable have been the manifestations of the power of the spirit in the realm of matter, of the force of the Infinite in the domain of the finite; but the Infinite Spirit Itself is self-existent, eternal, and unchangeable. The passage of time makes no mark whatever on the dial of eternity. In its supersensuous region which cannot be comprehended at all by the human understanding, there is no past, and there is no future. The Vedas teach that the soul of man is immortal. The body is subject to the law of growth and decay, what grows must of necessity decay. But the in dwelling spirit is related to the infinite and eternal life; it never had a beginning and it never will have an end, One of the chief distinctions between the Hindu and the Christian religions is that the Christian religion teaches that each human soul had its beginning at its birth into this world, whereas the Hindu religion asserts that the spirit of man is an emanation of the Eternal Being, and had no more a beginning than God Himself. Innumerable have been and will be its manifestations in its passage from one personality to another, subject to the great law of spiritual evolution, until it reaches perfection, when there is no more change.
It has been often asked: If this be so, why is it we do not remember anything of our past lives? This is our explanation: Consciousness is the name of the surface only of the mental ocean, but within its depths are stored up all our experiences, both pleasant and painful. The desire of the human soul is to find out something that is stable. The mind and the body, in fact all the various phenomena of nature, are in a condition of incessant change. But the highest aspiration of our spirit is to find out something that does not change, that has reached a state of permanent perfection. And this is the aspiration of the human soul after the Infinite! The finer our moral and intellectual development, the stronger will become this aspiration after the Eternal that changes not.
The modern Buddhists teach that everything that cannot be known by the five senses is non-existent, and that it is a delusion to suppose that man is an independent entity. The idealists, on the contrary, claim that each individual is an independent entity, and the external world does not exist outside of his mental conception. But the sure solution of this problem is that nature is a mixture of independence and dependence, of reality and idealism. Our mind and bodies are dependent on the external world, and this dependence varies according to the nature of their relation to it; but the indwelling spirit is free, as God is free, and is able to direct in a greater or lesser degree, according to the state of their development, the movements of our minds and bodies.
Death is but a change of condition. We remain in the same universe, and are subject to the same laws as before. Those who have passed beyond and have attained high planes of development in beauty and wisdom are but the advance-guard of a universal army who are following after them. The spirit of the highest is related to the spirit of the lowest, and the germ of infinite perfection exists in all. We should cultivate the optimistic temperament, and endeavour to see the good that dwells in everything. If we sit down and lament over the imperfection of our bodies and minds, we profit nothing; it is the heroic endeavour to subdue adverse circumstances that carries our spirit upwards. The object of life is to learn the laws of spiritual progress. Christians can learn from Hindus, and Hindus can learn from Christians. Each has made a contribution of value to the wisdom of the world.
Impress upon your children that true religion is positive and not negative, that it does not consist in merely refraining from evil, but in a persistent performance of noble decals. True religion comes not front the teaching of men or the reading of books; it is the awakening of the spirit within us, consequent upon pure and heroic action. Every child born into the world brings with it a certain accumulated experience from previous incarnations; and the impress of this experience is seen in the structure of its mind and body. But the feeling of independence which possesses us all shows there is something in us besides mind and body. The soul that reigns within is independent stud creates the desire for freedom. If we are not free, how can we hope to make the world better? We hold that human progress is the result of the action of the human spirit. What the world is, and what we ourselves are, are the fruits of the freedom of the spirit.
We believe in one God, the Father of us all, who is omnipresent and omnipotent, and who guides and preserves His children with infinite love. We believe in a Personal God as the Christians do, but we go further: we below that we are He! That His personality is manifested in us, that God is in us, and that we are in God We believe there is a germ of truth in all religions, and the Hindu bows down to them all; for in this world, truth is to be found not in subtraction but in addition. We would offer God a bouquet of the most beautiful flowers of all the diverse faiths. We must love God for love's sake, not for the hope of reward. We must do our duty for duty's sake not for the hope of reward. We must worship the beautiful for beauty's sake, not for the hope of reward. Thus in the purity of our hearts shall we see God. Sacrifices genuflexions, mumblings, and mutterings are not religion. They are only good if they stimulate us to the brave performance of beautiful and heroic deeds and lift our thoughts to the apprehension of the divine perfection
What good is it, if we acknowledge in our prayers that God is the Father of us all, and in our daily lives do not treat every man as our brother? Books are only made so that they may point the way to a higher life; but no good results unless the path is trodden with unflinching steps! Every human personality may be compared to a glass globe. There is the same pure white light  an emission of the divine Being  in the centre of each, but the glass being of different colours and thickness, the rays assume diverse aspects in the transmission. The equality and beauty of each central flame is the same, and the apparent inequality is only in the imperfection of the temporal instrument of its expression. As we rise higher and higher in the scale of being, the medium becomes more and more translucent.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Costs of violence committed with guns

Violence committed with guns leads to significant monetary costs. Phillip J. Cook estimated that such violence costs the USA $100 billion annually.[47] Emergency medical care is a major contributor to the monetary costs of such violence. It was determined in a study that for every firearm death in the USA for one year from 1 June 1992, an average of three firearm-related injuries were treated in hospital emergency departments.[49]

Psychological costs of violence committed with guns are also clearly documented. James Garbarino found that individuals who experience violence are prone to mental and other health problems, such as post-traumatic stress disorder and sleep deprivation. These problems increase for those who experience violence as children.[50]


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

We are used to begging for food for the World but now need to go to the World to beg for Food for our Children. The Republicans today voted to cut Food Stamps for our hungry Children and others for years to come. 

Can we allow them to let our People starve? We must remember this every time we vote for years to come.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

One out of 4 Corporations pays no taxes and because of it our children must go hungry


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Petroglyph-inscribed rocks.

Photograph courtesy Larry Benson, University of Colorado

Ker Than

for National Geographic

Published August 15, 2013

Ancient symbols etched onto the sides of boulders lying along the western edge of a desiccated lake in Nevada are the oldest confirmed rock carvings in North Americapossibly dating back to the first peopling of the New World, scientists say.

The so-called petroglyphs, carved in soft limestone millennia ago, range from simple lines, pits, and swirls to more complex and ambiguous shapes that resemble diamonds, trees, flowers, and veins in a leaf. They range from about 8 inches (20 centimeters) up to about 3 feet (1 meter) in width.

In a new study, published in this month's issue of the Journal of Archaeological Science, geochemist Larry Benson and his team concluded that the petroglyphs, located about 35 miles (56 kilometers) northeast of Reno at Winnemucca Lake, are at least 10,500 years old, and perhaps as much as 14,800 years old.

"Whether they turn out to be as old as 14,800 years ago or as recent as 10,500 years ago, they are still the oldest petroglyphs that have been dated in North America," Benson, who is at the University of Colorado Natural History Museum in Boulder, said in a statement. (See video of rock art in Arizona.)

Clues in Carbonate

To date the petroglyphs, Benson and his colleagues began by figuring out just when they could have been made.

Though Winnemucca Lake is dried up now, it was once so full of water that the boulders upon which the petroglyphs are etched were submerged.

As the water levels slowly dropped, crusts of a mineral called carbonate formed on the boulders. Radiocarbon testing of these carbonate layers revealed them to range in age from about 14,800 to 10,300 years old.

The carbonate ages, combined with an analysis of sediment cores taken from neighboring Pyramid Lake, suggest that the boulders were exposed to airand thus accessible for carving by humansbetween about 14,800 to 13,100 years ago, and again from about 11,300 to 10,500 years ago. In between the two time periods, the boulders were submerged, the scientists say.

It's unknown what method was used to create the petroglyphs, but one possibility is the artists used hard volcanic rock to chip away at the carbonate, which is porous and relatively soft, said Benson, who conducted the dating research while with the U.S. Geological Survey.

As a result, the rock art would not have taken very long to carve, but "whether all of them were done within a short period of time or over a span of hundreds of years, I don't know," Benson said in an interview on Wednesday.

Rocks with petroglyphs of trees and diamonds.

Photograph courtesy Larry Benson, University of Colorado

Non-invasive Examination

Benson said it might be possible to better pinpoint the age of the petroglyphs, but it would require sampling carbonate from inside the etchings themselvessomething that he has agreed not to do.

Benson obtained permission to non-invasively examine the carvings from the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe, which owns the land.

"One of the deals I made was that I would only work to the side of the glyphs, and not touch any of the glyphs themselves," Benson said.

Mystery Artists

Prior to the new dating of the Lake Winnemucca petroglyphs, the oldest rock art in North America was thought to be carvings found at Long Lake in Oregon that date to roughly 7,300 years ago.

Benson says he doesn't know what the symbols at Lake Winnemucca mean, or who might have made them, but he notes that their ages roughly match those of several pieces of fossilized human feces, or coprolites, that were discovered in Paisley Cave in Oregon and dated to around 14,400 to 13,000 years ago.

This date is close to when scientists think humans first began settling the Americas. In a new study published in this week's issue of the journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, scientists say they have found genetic evidence that a first wave of migrants crossed into the Americas from Asia about 15,000 to 18,000 years ago by slowly creeping down the continent's coasts.

A few thousand years later, according to the study, a second wave of humans entered North America, this time by slipping across the Bering Strait into Alaska and then crossing through an ice-free corridor into Canada.

Benson speculated that members of the first wave of settlers might have been responsible for the Lake Winnemucca rock art.

"It's possible that those people did occupy areas farther south, like the Lake Winnemucca area ... [but] it is also possible that paleoindians occupying the Winnemucca Lake basin between 11,300 and 10,500 years ago carved the petroglyphs," he said.

"At the moment we have no way to decide between the two possibilities."

*************************************************************************************************


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The American political system is not broken. Whats broken is the Republican Party. And its not clear how it will recover.

Whats wrong with American politics and what can be done about it is the question that election law expert Rick Hasen sets for himself in a fascinating new paper. In particular, he asks whether American politics is so broken that the only cure is to chuck the Constitution and replace it with a parliamentary system or some other radical systemic reform.

Hasen lays out the well-known case of dysfunction (perhaps best set out in Tom Mann and Norm Ornsteins recent Its Even Worse Than It Looks) and considers, but mostly rejects, three possible rejoinders: that gridlock is actually what voters want; that gridlock is to some extent an illusion, and the system is more productive than frustrated partisans believe; and that dysfunction is real but could be cured by less-drastic measures such as Senate reform and electoral reform.

He concludes, however, that a fourth rejoinder  that its still too soon to tell and perhaps the current problems are transitory  may have merit. Its certainly true, as he writes, that a 1970s belief that the presidency was broken yielded in the 1980s to presidential competence under Ronald Reagan. He could have added, too, that concern about impenetrable gridlock in the Eisenhower and Kennedy years was forgotten after the legislative triumphs of 1964 and 1965.

On all of this, Im with him. The system does seem dangerously dysfunctional, but its not clear that its a long-term threat.

The key question, however, is the nature of the problem. Hasen sees it, as many do, as a mismatch between partisan polarization on the one hand and the U.S. Madisonian system on the other:

The source of these deadlocks over budget reform is hardly a mystery: It is the mismatch between highly ideological political parties and our divided form of government, which makes passing legislation difficult even in the absence of partisan deadlock. The partisanship of our political branches and mismatch with our structure of government raise this fundamental question: Is the United States political system so broken that we should change the United States Constitution to adopt a parliamentary system, either a Westminster system as in the United Kingdom or a different form of parliamentary democracy? Such a move toward unified government would allow the Democratic or Republican parties to act in a unified way to pursue a rational plan on budget reform on other issues.

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I think the emphasis on partisan polarization is misplaced. Theres nothing about strong partisanship that makes effective government in the U.S. impossible. That Hasen highlights budget problems makes this, in my view, especially clear. Budgets are, by their nature, fairly easy to cut deals on! Indeed: I suspect the game theorists might actually find that it should be easier for two well-organized parties to cut those deals, even if their ideal points are quite distant, than it would be to reach a deal between unstructured, factionalized parties, even if there are no extremists among them. During the current 113th Congress, all that should be needed is for the captains of both teams to find an agreeable midpoint, and budget issues can be solved.

And yet: dysfunction, crises, threats of shutdown and irrational outcomes no one claims to want.

My conclusion? Its not partisanship. Its not polarization. Its not even extremism.

Its the Republican Party. The GOP is broken. Not too conservative; not too extreme. I have no view of where the GOP should be ideologically, and I dont think theres much evidence that being too conservative per se is losing elections for Republicans.

But broken, nonetheless.

I can talk how and why. Unfortunately, what I dont have is a fix  other than to say that a parliamentary system would, under current conditions, be even more of a disaster than the current very real consequences.

How did the Republican Party come to be broken?

Perhaps the biggest cause is the perverse incentives created by the conservative marketplace. Simply put, a large portion of the party, including the GOP-aligned partisan press and even many politicians, profit from having Democrats in office. Typically, democracies work in part because political parties have strong incentives to hold office, which causes them once they win to try hard to enact public policy that keeps people satisfied with their government. That appears to be undermined for todays Republicans.

A second and related cause has to do with a spiraling insistence on ever-more-pure candidates in party primaries. To some extent, this is perfectly healthy. Party actors are able to use nominations to fight for their interests and for their preferred positions on public policy; in a healthy party, those fights are one of the best sources of real democracy in the political system. The danger in even the healthiest parties is that participation in nomination contests tends to be highest among those with the most extreme views, which can leave a party too far from median voters. In the GOP, however, there are strong incentives to constantly create new levels of purity, in many cases by creating purely symbolic differences and attempting to exploit them. Knowing of that threat, candidates dont even need direct threats in many cases to make themselves easy marks for cranks attempting to pressure them.

In both of these causes, what seems to be at the root of it is a fairly enormous amount of money available to those who are willing to exploit it, whether its selling books or funding rogue candidates, as long as they present themselves as more-radical-than-thou.

The third cause is different, since as far as I can tell its simply caused by bad luck. Winning parties have a tendency to overlearn the lessons of their campaigns; winning candidates become role models for the party in the future. And the Republican Party, which has produced many impressive and honorable politicians over the years, has been unlucky in its winners  especially Richard Nixon and Newt Gingrich, but also in many ways Ronald Reagan. The lessons they learned from those politicians and from the 1968, 1980 and 1994 victories have reinforced the worst instincts of party actors (even though the victories actually mainly had to do with economic and other fundamentals that had nothing to do with the lessons learned).

The result? A massively dysfunctional party, as they amply demonstrated over the last decade think Iraq, Congressional corruption, economic collapse, and on and on. Just to give the basics:

An aversion to normal bargaining and compromise
An inability to banish fringe people and views from the mainstream of the party
An almost comical lack of interest in substantive policy formation
A willingness to ignore established norms and play Constitutional hardball
A belief that when out of office, the best play is always all-out obstruction

As I said at the beginning, I really dont have any great solution to any of this. My guess is that while in theory it could be solved from the bottom up by activists or party-aligned groups who get fed up with it, the more likely solution will be that theyll get lucky and win a presidential election with a nominee who somehow is able to handle the job and reform his party, in part by example. But it could take a long time for that to happen. Far more likely is that the next time Republicans win theyll prove even more incapable of governing than they were during the George W. Bush presidency.

What I am confident about is that a political system in which the views of the majority party can easily and rapidly be translated into public policy would be extraordinarily dangerous under these conditions. In real-life parliamentary parties, all sorts of norms and rules tend to be put in place to dampen the extremism of an incoming government. For example, many nations have strong bureaucracies that can push back sharply against wild ideas from the incoming government; others have well-established corporatist systems that prevent extremism regardless of who is elected. Without those constraints  and with a tenuous connection to the healthy incentives for remaining in office  its not hard to imagine a catastrophic result.

At any rate, theres no way to solve the problem unless the diagnosis is correct. The problem isnt partisanship or polarization. The problem is the GOP.
Jonathan Bernstein

Jonathan Bernstein writes at a Plain Blog About Politics. Follow him at @jbplainblog More Jonathan Bernstein.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Five Things Christian Fundamentalists Just Don't Get
Posted: 08/06/2013 10:59 am
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Right-wing Evangelical Fundamentalism claims to "go back to roots of Christianity." In fact, the "literal" (i.e., the earth was created in seven literal days) reading of the Bible was invented in the 19th century. Few fundamentalists care about the early church, the Gospels, the Catholic traditions, Augustine, Arian heresies, encyclicals and councils. Rather, they blend Southern Conservatism, bastardized Protestantism, some Pauline doctrine, gross nationalism and a heavy dose of naive anti-intellectualism for a peculiar American strain of bullshit. As Reverend Cornel West has noted, "the fundamentalist Christians want to be fundamental about everything, except 'love thy neighbor.'"

Here are some verses we liberal Christians wish they would get "fundamentalist" about:

1. Immigration

The verse:

When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. - Leviticus 19:33-34.

Why Fundamentalists Hate This Verse:

Because fundamentalists are xenophobic: religious fundamentalism is a reaction to the multiculturalism of liberal democracy. Rather than seek a "brotherhood of man," religious fundamentalism longs for a tribal community, without the necessary friction from those with foreign beliefs, cultures and customs. Here's an open letter from the president of an organization called Christians for A Sustainable Economy (Or as I call it: Christians for an unsustainable environment):

We are called to discern among, "sojourners" (like Ruth and Rahab who intend to assimilate and bless) and "foreigners" (who do not intend to assimilate and bless) and to welcome the former with hospitality.

This is an odd spin, given that in Leviticus, the command is unambiguous, there is no aside about a distinction between those who intend to assimilate. The letter then addresses the immigration bill:

Its passage would allow 11 million illegal immigrants to become citizens in the short-term, with likely an additional 20 million family members as new citizens within about a decade. ... The net price tag of S. 744 will be in the trillions of dollars. ... Such escalation of debt is one way to destroy a nation. It is immoral. It is theft from American seniors and children. It is unbiblical. It is unkind.

I could write a bunch of stuff about those numbers being crazily inaccurate, but let me allow the Lord to respond:

I will be a swift witness against... those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against ... those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts. Malachi 3:5.

2. Poverty

The Verses:

One of the most humorous aspects of modern-day, far-right Christianity is its reverence of capitalism. That's because Christ could be considered almost "anti-capitalist." Consider this verse:

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. - Matthew 19:24.

There is some version of the story of the rich man approaching Jesus that appears in every synoptic Gospel. In the Gospel of Mark, Jesus tells the rich man, "go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

The story of Lazarus should similarly terrify modern day fundamentalists:

Lazarus is a beggar who waits outside of a rich man's house and begs for scraps. When both Lazarus and the rich man die, Lazarus ends up in heaven, while the rich man ends up in hell. When the rich man begs for water, Abraham says, "Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish." Luke 19:25.

Why Fundamentalists Hate These Verses:

Because the only thing fundamentalists dislike more than immigrants is poor people. Seriously. Just this year, Tea Party Congressman Stephen Fincher explained why he thought the government should cut food stamps entirely, "The role of citizens, of Christians, of humanity is to take care of each other, but not for Washington to steal from those in the country and give to others in the country." Michelle Bachmann has also made a similar statement. The entire Tea Party movement is based on the idea that a huge portion of Americans are "takers" who suck the lifeblood out of the economy.

The Catholic Church actually has a long history of decrying the exploitation of the poor and supporting union movements See Rerum Novarm). G.K. Chesterton's writing on the rich often hits Occupy Wall Street levels ("The rich man is bribed... that is why he is rich.") But fundamentalists insist that poverty be explained in terms of a personal moral failure. They therefore hold that success should be described in terms of morality; this is the so-called Protestant ethic that Weber praised. But it is also, as Nietzsche noted, the "ethic of the hangman." The poor are considered culpable so that they can be punished -- like today's cuts to food stamps or the public shaming of those on welfare.

3. The Environment

The Verse:

In Genesis, man is given stewardship of the Earth, God's creation. [Stewardship, in the Christian tradition implies protection. Man should exist in harmony with the earth, not work against it.] As is noted in Colossians 1:16-17:

By him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Why Fundamentalists Hate The Verse:

Jesus Christ once told his followers:

No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. - Luke 16:13.

Increasingly, the religious right is trying to do exactly that, intertwining Evangelical fundamentalism with unfettered capitalism -- with disastrous results for the environment. Thus, American political life is increasingly dominated by Christians who reject the religious ethos, in favor of capitalist ethos.

One Conservative Evangelical publication, World magazine, hypes the "We Get It" campaign, which seeks to discredit the threat of global warming. It also claims the threat of climate change is "alarmism" and fears that efforts to clamp down on emissions will hurt the poor (read: corporations). In reality, climate change will have its greatest effect on people living on less than a dollar a day who can not adapt to higher temperatures. Conservative Evangelicals are not concerned with dwindling biodiversity, the destruction of ecosystem, rampant pollution, global warming and the numerous other environmental challenges we face. Rather they, with the business community, are concerned with the bottom line. The future is irrelevant (unless we're talking about government debt). Thus, the Biblical command to protect the environment is widely eschewed.

4. War

The Verse:

In two Gospels, Jesus tells his followers:

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. - Matthew 5:38-42, Luke 27-30.

In another passage he says:

You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. - Matthew 5:43 - 45.

Why Fundamentalists Hate This Verse:

As a religious and political movement, fundamentalists have defined themselves as a party of opposition, rather than of love, grace and mercy.

In her fantastic essay, "Onward Christian Liberals," Marilynne Robinson argues:

The excitement we are seeing now is called by some scholars a third great awakening, yet it is different from the other two... it is full of pious aversion toward the so-called culture... and toward those whose understanding of religion fails to meet its standards.

While past "Great Awakenings" have looked inward, seeing sin within the conflicted self, this new awakening looks outward, seeing sin in the wider culture. The culture, that which is secular is evil, while the church is sacred. This is why modern religious fundamentalism gravitates towards xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, etc. Fear and disgust are its motivating factors.

This fundamentalism inclines some religious people toward a pre-emptive "war of religion" and a strong disgust (that sometimes culminates in violence) toward Muslims. Oddly enough, the Christian tradition has developed a theory of "Just War" (developed by Aquinas) which condemns war except when all other options have been exhausted and there is just treatment of prisoners (with a specific condemnation of torture). If only one of the past two "Christian" presidents had listened.

5. Women

The Verse:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. - Galatians 3:28

Why Fundamentalists Hate it:

Although the right often claims the Bible supports their absurd ideas about gender roles (just like the Bible supported anti-miscegenation) such claims have been thoroughly debunked by theologians. Generally, when you'll hear an explanation of why women belong in the home, it'll rely on a misreading of one of Paul's doctrines.

In contrast to Paul, Christ rarely concerned himself with sexual mores, he was far more concerned with fighting oppression. Fundamentalists want to keep women submissive and subservient, but Jesus won't let them. In Luke, for instance, Jesus is blessed by a priestess named Anna. He praises a woman who stands up to a judge and demands justice. It's worth noting that in a time when women could not testify in a court of law, all four resurrection stories have women arriving first to Jesus' tomb (although it's unclear which women). Jesus talks with a Samaritan woman at a well and praises Mary Magdalene for listening to his words (Luke 10:38-42).

Fundamentalism Obscures True Religion

These verses are powerful and I believe that they should be carefully considered.

I worry that Christianity and religion in general is represented by its most conservative, fundamentalists elements. Remember that Marx drew his the inspiration for his famous quote "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" from the example of the early church (Acts 4:32-35).

I understand the fun that Sam Harris and Reddit have destroying fundamentalism, and I went to a Christian college and had jolly good time of it as well. "Haven't you read your own book?" I would ask smugly. But once the gleeful potshots are finished, we all have to face the fundamental and aching deprivation of having been born. We can continue to have a fun time berating those who believe the Bible explains science and that there was a snake in the Garden of Eden, but it's really a waste.

The Christian message doesn't contradict science, and nor is it concerned with bourgeois politics. Ultimately Christianity (and many other religions) are about transcending politics and fighting for social justice. Think of Martin Luther King Jr., Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi and Thich Quang Duc -- all of whom were influenced by their religion to change the world. Jesus saw how oppression and oppressors consumed the world. He, as all great reformers have, sided with the oppressed. This kind of skewed fundamentalism is radically new and far removed from true Christianity. True Christianity offers us a far superior doctrine -- one of social justice, love and equality.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Petroglyph-inscribed rocks.
> 
> Photograph courtesy Larry Benson, University of Colorado
> 
> ...


Rock of ages: Australia's oldest artwork found
Archaeologist discovers Aboriginal rock art made 28,000 years ago in Northern Territory cave
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Associated Press
theguardian.com, Monday 18 June 2012 21.40 AEST
Australian rock art
The rock art was discovered in a cave called Nawarla Gabarnmang. Photograph: Bryce Barker/AFP/Getty Images
An archaeologist says he has found the oldest piece of rock art in Australia and one of the oldest in the world: an Aboriginal work created 28,000 years ago in an outback cave.

The dating of one of the thousands of images in the Northern Territory rock shelter, known as Nawarla Gabarnmang, will be published in the next edition of the Journal of Archaeological Science.

The archaeologist Bryce Barker, from the University of Southern Queensland, said he found the rock in June last year but had only recently had it dated at the radiocarbon laboratory of New Zealand's University of Waikato.

He said the rock art had been made using charcoal, so radiocarbon dating could be used to determine its age; most rock art is made with mineral paint, so its age cannot accurately be measured.

Barker said the work was "the oldest unequivocally dated rock art in Australia" and among the oldest in the world.

The oldest known rock art is in Spain, where hand stencils and red discs made by blowing paint on to the wall in El Castillo cave are at least 40,800 years old, according to scientists using a technique known as uranium-thorium dating.

Sally May, an archeologist from the Australian National University who is not involved with Barker's research, said his find was "incredibly significant".

"I don't think it will surprise anyone that rock art is that old in Australia because we know people have been here a lot longer than that, and there's no reason to believe they weren't producing art," she said.

Barker said he had found evidence that the cave where he found the rock art had been occupied for 45,000 years.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Tax Breaks for the Rich and Heart breaks for our children. 
39Million taken away for so desperately needed Food Stamps. Hail to the Republicans.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Obamacare, It's here to stay!

What You Need To Know About The New Online Marketplaces 
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Topics: Health Reform, Insurance, Health Costs

By Mary Agnes Carey and Julie Appleby

KHN Staff Writers

Sep 16, 2013

This KHN story was produced in collaboration with

The health law's online marketplaces, also known as exchanges, will be open for enrollment Oct. 1. They will allow individuals and consumers to comparison shop for health insurance, much like they do now online for an airline ticket or a hotel room, and apply for subsidies, if they are eligible.

If done well, proponents say, the marketplaces could make it easier to buy health insurance and possibly lead to lower prices because of increased competition. But, if designed or marketed poorly, the exchanges will not attract healthy people and will instead be left with a higher percentage of sicker people that will cause premiums to rise.

Here are some answers to common questions about the exchanges:

What is an exchange?

It's an online marketplace where individuals and small employers will be able to shop for insurance coverage. Enrollment begins Oct. 1 for policies that will go into effect on Jan. 1. The exchanges will also help people find out if they are eligible for federal subsidies to help cover the cost of coverage or if they are eligible for Medicaid, the federal-state health insurance program for the poor.

Will all states have exchanges?

Yes. Sixteen states and the District of Columbia are running their own exchanges and the federal government is setting them up in 27 states. In seven states, federal and state officials are partnering to run the exchanges. You can get information about the exchange at https://www.healthcare.gov/, which has details on the federal exchanges and links to state-run exchanges.

Who will use the exchanges?

Most people will be able to purchase coverage on the exchanges. But many workers and their families already have coverage through their jobs, and they will not be likely to buy policies on the exchanges. The marketplaces are primarily aimed at people who are uninsured and those whose employer-based coverage is too costly and/or lacking in benefits.

Most states and the federal marketplace also will offer a Small Business Health Options program, or SHOP exchange, that will give employees more options than they have now. Initially, these SHOP exchanges will be open only for businesses with 50 or fewer workers.

Who cannot buy coverage there?

Immigrants who are in the country illegally will be barred from buying insurance on the exchanges. Legal immigrants are permitted to use the marketplaces and may qualify for subsidies if their income is no more than 400 percent of the federal poverty level (about $46,000 for an individual and $94,200 for a family of four.)

If my employer offers me insurance, can I shop on the exchange to get a better deal?

Even if your employer offers coverage, you can opt to buy a plan on the exchange. However, you may not be eligible for a subsidy unless you make less than 400 percent of the federal poverty level and your employer's plan covered less than 60 percent of allowed medical expenses or cost more than 9.5 percent of your household income.

If I am buying coverage on my own, do I have to buy it on the exchange?

Consumers can shop for coverage on or off the exchange. However, subsidies are generally available only for plans sold on the exchange. Also, adults up to the age of 26 have another choice: They often can get coverage through their parents' health plans.

How will the process work?

For someone with a computer, it's relatively straightforward. You can go online to Healthcare.gov or to your state-run exchange, if there is one, and create an account. Then you would fill out an application and provide information such as household size, location, income and citizenship status.

Then the exchange takes over. It first determines whether the person is eligible for Medicaid; if so, it will refer you there. If not, it will tell you how much of a subsidy you can receive. (These subsidies will be sent directly by the government to the insurer to pay a portion of the premium.)

After that, the exchange will offer a list of health plans and their premiums and out-of-pocket costs, including deductibles and co-payments. If a consumer decides to buy one of those plans, in most cases, you will be directed to the insurer's Web site to make the payment. In some jurisdictions, consumers will make their first premium payment to the exchange and then further monthly payments to the insurer.

You can also fill out paper applications or apply over the phone. The federal and state exchange sites have toll-free numbers where consumers can find information about getting help in person.

Are exchanges the only place where I can get subsidized coverage?

Not exactly. Under a little-known rule proposed by the administration in June, consumers will be able to buy an exchange-approved plan  and receive a health law subsidy  from the insurance company itself rather than from the exchange.

I am on Medicare. Do I need to use the exchange?

No. Medicare is not part of the health insurance exchanges. As a Medicare beneficiary, you can enroll in the programs traditional drug coverage or in a Medicare Advantage plan, where Medicare enrollees get coverage through private health insurance plans, on Medicare.gov during the Medicare open season, which begins Oct. 15.

What about federal workers?

Most federal workers will continue to get their health coverage through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and not be required to purchase coverage through the health laws marketplaces. Members of Congress and their personal staffs, however, will be required to buy health insurance through the exchanges.

A proposed rule from the Office of Personnel Management said the government would continue its practice of paying up to 75 percent of the premium, as it does for federal workers enrolled in FEHBP. Members of Congress and their personal staffs will not be eligible for the health laws subsidies and will purchase on the exchange in the state where they live, the agency said.

Will exchanges be like travel websites or some existing health insurance sites?

In some ways, but they will be more complex. People will be able to compare policies sold by different companies. Information on the plan benefits will be standardized in an effort to make it easier to compare cost and quality. Plans will be divided into four different types  bronze, silver, gold and platinum  varying based on the size of their deductibles, copayments and other consumer cost-sharing. They will also have to provide personal financial information and citizenship status that will be linked to the Internal Revenue Service and other government agencies.

What will the coverage sold on the exchanges look like?

Plans will have to offer a set of "essential benefits that include hospital, emergency, maternity and pediatric care as well as coverage for prescription drugs and lab services. Annual cost-sharing -- or the amount consumers pay for out-of-pocket for care for medical services and deductibles but not premiumswill be capped at $6,350 for individual policies and $12,700 for family plans in 2014.

What if I can't afford the premiums?

The health law provides sliding scale subsidies to help people pay premiums up to 400 percent of the poverty level, which is currently about $46,000 for an individual and about $94,000 for a family of four. Theres also help with cost-sharing for individuals and families with incomes of up to 250 percent of the poverty level ($28,725 for an individual or $58,875 for a family of four). According to government estimates, subsidies will average $5,290 per person in 2014. Recipients must pay a portion of their household income  2 percent to 9.5 percent  toward the cost of the premium, based on how much they make.

Does everyone on the exchange get a subsidy?

No, subsidies will be limited to people who meet specific income requirements. In addition, individuals with access to insurance through their jobs but who decide to purchase insurance on the exchange instead are eligible for subsidies only if their employers plan does not cover at least 60 percent of estimated medical expenses or if it would cost the worker more than 9.5 percent of household income.

The health law also expands Medicaid. How will I know if I qualify?

The law sought to extend Medicaid to all people who earn less than 138 percent of the federal poverty level, just under $16,000 for an individual and $32,500 for a family of four based on current guidelines. However, the Supreme Court ruled in June 2012 that states may opt out of that Medicaid expansion, and 21 states have chosen not to expand People who would have qualified for Medicaid in states that dont participate in the health laws expansion can enroll in the exchanges but they wont qualify for subsidies if their income is below 100 percent of the federal poverty limit.

Will all insurers have to offer policies through the exchange?

No. Insurers are not required to sell through the exchanges.

Where can I go for help?

You can start with Healthcare.gov. Beginning Oct. 1, the site will publish more information about the plans offered on the federally administered exchanges. If your state is running its own exchange, youll be directed there as well. The federal government has also set up call centers to answer questions from people in states with federal exchanges. That phone number is 800-318-2596. States running their own exchanges will also have individual call centers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Where are the Gods? Why do they allow to let People starve?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

House Republicans plan Friday vote on defunding Obamacare

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The first step for Boehner is winning approval for the stopgap funding bill entirely with Republican votes. His Obamacare strategy has won him the support of a large number of conservatives who have repeatedly criticized his leadership and voted against previous bills he has advanced.

This is the best plan that Ive seen so far, said Rep. Matt Salmon (R-Ariz.), one of several more-conservative members who seemed buoyed by Boehners decision to challenge the health-care law.

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U.S. debt outlook is still dark.
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U.S. debt outlook is still dark.

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Leadership has been very receptive to .&#8201;.&#8201;. members and then making adjustments as necessary, said Rep. Tom Graves (R-Ga.), who first introduced a plan to defund the health-care law while funding government operations for another fiscal year

The legislation would fund federal agencies at an annualized rate of more than $986 billion but would also leave in place automatic spending cuts known as sequestration, set to take effect in January. It would include language to prohibit any funding going to implementing the health-care law and, additionally, authorize the Treasury to pay some bills and not others in the event that no deal is reached in October on increasing the debt limit.

With the newfound conservative support, Republicans believe that legislation will pass, possibly Friday. In the Senate, Reid plans to strip the health-care provisions from the government funding bill, and senior aides in both parties said he would have the procedural flexibility to do that.

The president has made it clear that they will veto this, so it is nothing more than a partisan poison pill, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) said Wednesday, predicting an easy vote for the majority Democrats to strip the health-care provision.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), the loudest champion in the Senate of the new Boehner strategy, acknowledged that he would probably be helpless to stop the funding bill in his chamber. Harry Reid will no doubt try to strip the defund language from the continuing resolution, and right now he likely has the votes to do so. At that point, House Republicans must stand firm, hold their ground, and continue to listen to the American people, Cruz said in a statement.

That statement angered House Republicans, who felt goaded into the Obamacare fight by Cruz and his outside conservative group allies.

After Cruzs statement was released, a Boehner spokesman countered with this statement: We trust Republicans in the Senate will put up a fight worthy of the challenge that Obamacare poses.

When the Senate is done with the funding bill, the House will have to vote on it again, but that timetable probably would leave Boehner just two or three days to make a fateful decision: approve the legislation with a large bloc of Democratic votes or pursue the Obamacare strategy further and shut down the government.

Whats unclear is whether Boehner and Cantor would rally a large number of Republicans to support voting to keep the government open or if support would collapse because of continued pressure to defund the health-care law.

Faced with another crisis moment on New Years Day, Boehner allowed a compromise tax bill on the floor that raised rates on the wealthiest Americans but locked in permanently the Bush-era tax cuts for the vast majority of workers. Because many Republicans considered it a tax increase, barely a third of Boehners caucus supported him, as the legislation passed on the back of the Democratic minority.

At the start of the year, Boehner pledged to avoid too many more of those circumstances in which the majority effectively became the minority. Another such vote on a big issue would leave him even more weakened heading into the debt-ceiling showdown.

During Wednesdays meeting, Boehner, who has served in the House since 1991, reminded fellow Republicans  more than half of whom have served less than three years  that public opinion of President Bill Clinton soared in the weeks after a government shutdown that was prompted by similar disagreements with a Republican-led Congress over spending.

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.), a key Boehner ally, said the speaker seemed pleased with the new strategy.

I dont think theres much doubt about his passion or his commitment to getting something done, and frankly when were at 218, were at our strongest. That was the basic message, Cole said, referring to the number for a majority in the full House. Weve been looking for the formula to get us there, and he thinks hes found it.

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cbl55
9/18/2013 11:09 AM CST
The story is always the same regardless of the disguise of the headline:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great Eve. Our work together proves that man has populated both continents for thousands of years. Man was not evolved in a week. Thanks.



EveMCooke said:


> Rock of ages: Australia's oldest artwork found
> Archaeologist discovers Aboriginal rock art made 28,000 years ago in Northern Territory cave
> Share 3
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

And the Gods who are being worshiped are absent when needed most. I guess we need to go to the Pope who seems to have Heart and understanding.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

After forty-some years of expert Washington watching, Norm Ornstein thought hed seen it all. But the political scientist, American Enterprise Institute scholar and recent Moyers & Company guest writes in National Journal that the obstructionism exhibited by the GOP around all things Obamacare takes the proverbial cake. Their focus on sabotaging the implementation of Obamacare, he says, is monomaniacal.

Ornstein looks back at other controversial legislation advanced by presidents in the last decade that were ripe for obstruction by the opposing party, including President George W. Bushs Medicare prescription drug plan. The bill, in its final form, gave Democrats many reasons to be upset  Senator Ted Kennedy worked with Bush to form a bill that both parties were happy with, then Republicans removed all of Kennedys provisions and passed the stripped-down version. Ornstein writes:

Almost certainly, Democrats could have tarnished one of George W. Bushs signature achievements, causing Republicans major heartburn in the 2004 presidential and congressional elections and in the process hurting millions of Medicare recipients and their families. Instead, Democrats worked with Republicans, and with Mark McClellan, the Bush administration official in charge of implementation, to smooth out the process and make it workand it has been a smashing success. 

Contrast that with Obamacare. For three years, Republicans in the Senate refused to confirm anybody to head the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the post that McClellan had held in 2003-04  in order to damage the possibility of a smooth rollout of the health reform plan. Guerrilla efforts to cut off funding, dozens of votes to repeal, abusive comments by leaders, attempts to discourage states from participating in Medicaid expansion or crafting exchanges, threatening letters to associations that might publicize the availability of insurance on exchanges, and now a new set of threats  to have a government shutdown, or to refuse to raise the debt ceiling, unless the president agrees to stop all funding for implementation of the plan.

I remember being shocked when some congressional Democrats appeared to be rooting for the surge in troops in Iraq to fail  which would mean more casualties among Americans and Iraqis, but a huge embarrassment for Bush, and vindication of their skepticism. But of course they did not try to sabotage the surge by disrupting funding or interfering in the negotiations in Iraq with competing Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish power centers. To do so would have been close to treasonous.

What is going on now to sabotage Obamacare is not treasonous  just sharply beneath any reasonable standards of elected officials with the fiduciary responsibility of governing.

Read the entire article at National Journal »


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NRA


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

,


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

,


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The Biblical Basis for
> Being Pro-Choice
> The Bible never mentions abortion, but it does offer support for choice.
> BY: Marjorie Brahms Signer
> ...


The Pope does not condemn a woman for having had an abortion. A Prayer of thanks is for sure.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ted Cruz, Liberal Hero, May Have Just Bailed Washington Out Of The Shutdown Crisis
Posted: 09/19/2013 12:09 pm EDT | Updated: 09/19/2013 2:36 pm EDT


WASHINGTON -- In one moment, with one statement, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) managed Wednesday to accomplish what House GOP leaders, Republican senators and the Wall Street Journal editorial page had failed to do for months: Persuade rank-and-file House Republicans that shutting down the government in an attempt to defund Obamacare was simply impossible.
On Wednesday, after House leaders said they'd go forward with the defund strategy Cruz had been pitching with ads on Fox News, his response boiled down to 'Thanks, you're on your own.'
"Harry Reid will no doubt try to strip the defund language from the continuing resolution, and right now he likely has the votes to do so," Cruz said in a statement. "At that point, House Republicans must stand firm, hold their ground, and continue to listen to the American people."
On the surface, House Republicans were seething. Members openly accused Cruz and his allies, Sens. Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), of waving the white flag before the fight had even begun. One House GOP aide even called Cruz a "joke, plain and simple."
But by admitting that he had no ability in the Senate to back up the House effort to defund Obamacare, and saying so on the same day that House Republicans had announced they would support the Cruz-inspired strategy, Cruz has inadvertently done more than any other lawmaker to avert a government shutdown.
"Cruz officially jumped the shark this week," said one GOP operative allied with House leadership, who, like others, requested anonymity to speak critically about fellow Republicans. "He's doing for the House Leaders what they couldn't do for themselves. House rank-and-file members are uniting with Boehner, Cantor over Ted Cruz's idiotic position."
The retreat by Cruz has led to public questioning from House Republicans about his motives and political acumen, not to mention joking speculation that he may be part of a vast and devious liberal conspiracy to undermine conservatives.
"Cruz is the leader of a secret cabal of leftists that are seeking control of the conservative movement," quipped one senior House Republican leadership source. "Their aim is to force the party to take on suicidal missions to destroy the movement from within."
Another senior House GOP aide was grateful that Cruz had made plain what House leaders had been arguing for weeks -- that there was no viable strategy connected to a government shutdown that would defund Obamacare. "We can only defund Obamacare if it passes the Senate," the aide said. "If there is no plan to get the defunding provision passed in the Senate, or even a plan to fight to get it passed in the Senate, then what were talking about isnt a plan to defund Obamacare -- its just a plan to shut down the government and hope for the best. Thats not a great plan."
That Cruz was left without any strategy at all, after demanding for months that Republicans follow his lead, feeds into the notion that the tea party is rooted more in political nihilism than any particular ethos, an argument Walter Sobch


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Pope Francis' outreach to atheists not as controversial as it seems

Pope Francis friendly letter to atheists, published this week by Italys La Repubblica newspaper, has been cheered by Catholics who welcomed another sign of the pontiffs new openness to the world beyond the Vatican walls.

But it has also prompted some gnashing of teeth among others, who are reacting to headlines about the popes letter like this one in the British newspaper The Independent:

Pope Francis assures atheists: You dont have to believe in God to go to heaven

As David Brody of the Christian Broadcasting Network tweeted: Say what? Catholics please explain this ... Evangelicals are NOT kosher with this...

First off, Brody and others shouldnt be deceived by a headline. The popes letter itself makes clear that he is talking about forgiveness (and dialogue) more than salvation -- and thats hardly so controversial.

As Robert Mickens, Vatican correspondent for the London-based Catholic journal The Tablet, said in that same story: Francis is still a conservative ... But what this is all about is him seeking to have a more meaningful dialogue with the world.

That sort of open-handed approach toward nonbelievers and others has been characteristic of this pope since the first days after he took office in March, as he greeted the media and made a special point of respecting the consciences of non-Catholics and those who have no religious belief.

Another point: The debate over who will be saved and who will not is and will remain a lively one in the Catholic church, but it is not that new, relatively speaking.

As the late Cardinal Avery Dulles wrote, the main break came in the middle of the 20th century, when some theologians -- and the church -- started downplaying the age-old anathema extra Ecclesiam nulla salus -- that there is no salvation outside the church, meaning the church of Rome.

Since then, Catholic thinkers have been trying to come up with new formulas to give people a sense of who will be saved, and who will not.

The 20th-century German theologian Karl Rahner, a Jesuit like Francis and Dulles, elaborated the notion of the anonymous Christian, that is that people who have never heard of Christ (or Christianity) but live and strive in accordance with Gospel values can be saved.

The idea was to explain how those who, through no fault of their own, could be spared by a merciful God even if they did not know the Jesus of Christian tradition.

Rahner was often at odds with his fellow German theologian Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), but even Ratzinger himself in 2000 issued an authoritative document, Dominus Iesus, that proposed a modified form of Rahners concept that men and women of goodwill could be saved.

Both as a cardinal and as pope, Ratzinger also frequently made common cause with nonbelievers, for example co-authoring a book with the atheist and Italian politician Marcello Pera that praised Christian values. Benedicts request, he said, was that earnest nonbelievers act as if God exists.

That phrase was in fact part of Francis first encyclical, Lumen Fidei, or The Light of Faith, which was started by Benedict and later finished by his successor. In it the two popes write:

Because faith is a way, it also has to do with the lives of those men and women who, though not believers, nonetheless desire to believe and continue to seek. To the extent that they are sincerely open to love and set out with whatever light they can find, they are already, even without knowing it, on the path leading to faith. They strive to act as if God existed...

Even more controversial was the thought of another recent Catholic thinker, the Swiss theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, who is famous for arguing that Christians can hope (though cant be certain) that hell is empty and all are in fact saved.

Disputes about von Balthasars theology continue, but in 1988 Pope John Paul II honored the theologian -- a few days after his death -- by making him a cardinal.

Francis is hardly the only one. New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan also pointed to this view of Gods unlimited grace in his sit-down this month with Comedy Centrals Stephen Colbert, himself a Catholic.

If even atheists are redeemed by Christ, why have I been going to Mass every Sunday? Colbert asked Dolan with a false indignation that mirrored the real questions many in his audience had about comments Francis made about nonbelievers last May.

Dolans response: Look, you dont go to Mass to win heaven. You go to ask God for help to get you there. You go to Mass to thank him for being such a great God that he wants you to spend eternity with him. Thats why you go to Mass. You dont go to win heaven, because you cant earn it -- its a gift. He wants to give it to all of us.

The issues, like Francis words, are loaded and can be controversial. Ironically, what the pope, and the Catholic church, are emphasizing is the priority of Gods limitless grace rather than salvation by ones own effort -- something Protestants might cheer.

Evangelical theologian Scot McKnight said everyone should step back and take a breath. Im confident ... hes not disagreeing with church dogma, said McKnight, who teaches at Northern Seminary outside Chicago. They are unguarded statements needing more nuance.

To be sure, there remain significant differences between Catholic views of salvation and the various Protestant conceptions about who is saved and when, and if a Christian is guaranteed a ticket to paradise.

But this most recent episode may not be as divisive as some think.

Instead, the worried observers could have mistaken Francis pastoral gesture as an effort to dilute the gospel rather than what he really intended -- an evangelical outreach intended to bring nonbelievers closer to Christ, not to introduce relativism into the church.

[Sarah Pulliam Bailey contributed to this report.]


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> .


N O 
D O U B T.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

John Boehner: This Explains A Lot

Are you drunk?

This expression is used often in our culture, usually by someone attempting to call into question the sober-mindedness of another individual. Of course this isnt a literal interrogatory seeking to determine, say, anothers blood alcohol content  its more of a mental status check.

Like, are you crazy?

Anyway  in the case of U.S. Speaker John Boehner (RINO-Ohio), the question could go either way. Boehner obviously isnt of sober-mind  as evidenced by his wholesale betrayal of the limited government movement that made him Speaker in 2011. But hes also a drunk. In fact most nights, Washington, D.C. sources tell FITS Boehner can be found drunk off his ass at the Capitol Hill Club, a private bar located two blocks down First Street from the U.S. Capitol.

In fact, Boehner was drinking at the club when one of the few journalists ever to write about the establishment  our friend Ken Silverstein from Harpers  received an invitation to attend. From Silversteins piece (published in 2008) 

Journalists can enter the Club if invited and escorted by a member, but the former board member told me that it was encouraged to phone ahead if a member of the press was coming. A few years ago I had a drink there with a Club member who had apparently not taken that precaution. Congressman John Boehner, flush-faced and glass in hand, approached our table and immediately began talking with my companion, whom he knew, about recent meetings hed had with government officials from Kazakhstan. Boehner was just getting warmed up but my companion cut him off to let him know that I was a journalist. The story came to an end and Boehner, who looked stricken, quickly sought other company.

Boehners drinking problem  ignored by the mainstream media  received a bit of coverage on a Washington, D.C. blog earlier this year.

Those who know Boehner best say he does tip more than a few from time to time and some of his drunken binges are poorly-kept secrets on Capitol Hill, the blog, Capitol Hill Blue noted. Each day, the email to Capitol Hill Blue is filled with stories about Boehners after-hours partying exploits.

During a trip to Washington, D.C. earlier this year, FITS heard many of these stories  with specific references to the Capitol Hill Club.

Boehner isnt just a drunk, either, hes allegedly an inveterate skirt-chaser whos had numerous affairs, according to Down With Tyranny, another Washington, D.C. blog. In fact one lawmaker told us on our recent Washington trip that Boehner  married since 1973  was forced to narrow his number of regular lobbyist lovers from three down to one when it became evident he was in line to become Speaker in 2010.

Sheesh 

Obviously theres nothing unusual about powerful politicians getting drunk and chasing tail  thats as natural to them as drawing breath.

But in Boehners case, hes one of those sanctimonious moralizers who likes to hold himself out as something  or rather someone  hes not.

I believe the actions that Ive taken in my years in Congress uphold the values of my faith, the Catholic said not long after taking the gavel from former Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Really? We already knew Boehner was a hypocrite on the bread and butter issues that his party is supposed to stand for, but its interesting to see this same trend at work in his personal life as well.

Voters put Republicans in charge of the U.S. House in 2010 because they wanted someone in Washington, D.C.  anyone  to show some leadership on limited government issues.

What they got instead was Boehner, a drunk adulterer who is in bed (sometimes literally) with the same special interests as Democrats and who has done nothing but accommodate the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama at virtually every turn.

In fact next to former president George W. Bush and serial flip-flopper Mitt Romney, we cant think of another Republican who has done more damage to whats left of the GOP brand than Boehner.

***


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

More gun nuts


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

At a press conference today, Boehner said, Were going to continue to do everything we can to repeal the presidents failed health care law. This week, the House will pass a CR that locks the sequester savings in, and defunds ObamaCare. The president has signed seven bills over the last two and a half years to make changes to ObamaCare, and I sincerely hope our friends in the Senate have plans to make this an eighth time. The law is a train wreck. The president has protected American big business, its time to protect American families from this unworkable law.

John Boehner is currently under federal investigation for taking illegal campaign contributions from corporations in 2012, but he is trying to convince the American people that he is fighting for them. More odious than Boehners claims of middle class hero are the tactics that he is using to protect Americas families. Speaker Boehner is fighting tooth and nail so that the American people never have to know the horror of being able to go to the doctor. Boehner is battling hard so that the American people never have to fear the trauma of not being buried in a lifetime of medical debt.

As a member of Congress, John Boehner has really good healthcare. He knows from personal experience the dangers and temptations that come with being able to go to the doctor when you are sick. Boehner wouldnt wish this on anyone, which is why he is fighting for you.

The idea that Speaker Boehner is a champion of Americas families because he doesnt want them to have healthcare is absurd.

John Boehner isnt fighting for Americas families. He is fighting to make sure that if you get sick, insurance company death panels will decide whether you get to live or die based on how much you life saving medical treatment would cost them.

In case you didnt understand what the Speaker was really saying today, John Boehner went on the record as promising to takeaway healthcare to millions of uninsured Americans. He is also promising to deny people with preexisting conditions coverage, and to put the insurance companies back in charge of your medical decisions.

John Boehners leadership of the House majority has been a historic disaster, but vowing to take away the healthcare of the American people might be the biggest and final mistake of his tenure as speaker.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huff Post

September 19, 2013

Michele Bachmann Wasn't the Caricature the Tea Party Needed, But She Was the Caricature the Tea Party Deserved
It has become a common narrative for politicians in general, but especially so for high-profile members of the Tea Party: She came, she saw, she left in disgrace.
On Wednesday morning, Michele Bachmann, a Minnesota representative who somehow managed to dominate the political spotlight in a state that's represented in the Senate by a former Saturday Night Live cast member, announced that she will be leaving office at the end of her term in 2014.
Bachmann made the curious choice of making the announcement via YouTube. This would usually be considered an odd move for someone who has so often been vocal in the press... unless they're being investigated by the FBI for campaign finance improprieties and don't want to have to face questions from reporters about it.
While she's received plenty of publicity for her inflammatory and so, so often incorrect statements while in office, Bachmann's exit, from a political standpoint, is essentially meaningless.
As Jason Linkins outlined, while in office Michele Bachmann had zero pieces of legislation signed into law and she never wielded a gavel in any government committee or subcommittee.
Interestingly, her story is similar to the other Tea Party-aligned politicians who ran or considered running for president in 2012 -- quick rise, embarrassing fall.
	Rick Santorum's biggest fight during the campaign was in relation to Google results associated with his name rather than any actual policy stance he held. He's now out of politics and involved with a suspiciously political nonprofit.
	Herman Cain, with his political views that seemed eerily influenced by the popular computer game The Sims, is also not involved in politics. His new venture is Cain.tv -- a website that definitely appears to be heavily influenced by a man who generously borrowed lyrics from a Pokemon song for one of his political speeches.
	Despite his embarrassingly unsuccessful presidential campaign, Rick Perry is still the governor of Texas, but any hopes he has of being re-elected in 2014 appear to be bleak.
	There was that Sarah Palin lady.
And then, of course, Michele Bachmann, who in many ways is the perfect representation of the Tea Party: Loud, hateful and ultimately, inconsequential.
On the most basic level, the efforts of the Tea Party are admirable. It's a grassroots movement that organized so that it could effectively communicate its message. But issues arose when it became obvious that that message -- similar to the majority of things Michele Bachmann has said during her illustrious political career -- didn't make any remote sense.
As 2012 election results indicated, the Tea Party's entire platform was based on conflicting beliefs that the majority of Americans couldn't get on board with.
You can't call for gun rights in order to protect yourself from what you believe to be a tyrannous government, and then advocate for billions in defense spending to ensure that America has the strongest military in the world.
You can't constantly throw around the word "liberty" and then claim gay marriage and abortion are wrong for everybody because your interpretation of God says so.
You can't claim America is exceptional, and then attempt to dismantle its parks, labor force and education system -- the very things that once in fact did make it exceptional.
And finally, you can't claim we have the best health care system in the world, when we, uh, don't.
For these reasons, and quite a few more, in the coming years Tea Party reps will likely only exist as talking heads on Fox News rather than as representatives in Congress.
But it's worth appreciating that the future of the movement, Senator Ted Cruz, is a well-spoken Ivy League-educated minority who was born in a foreign country to an American mother and immigrant father. If there is any indication that the entire Tea Party movement has come full circle, it's that their leading presidential hopeful has almost the exact same background as the man currently sitting in office that they so deeply loathe (minus the being born in a foreign country thing). Such irony is only fitting for a movement that has always been a walking contradiction.
There's no shortage of radicals belonging to both parties. But in recent years, the key difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is that the Left never let their radicals hijack their message, while the Right elected theirs into office.
The ultimate result of this strategy was Michele Bachmann and a slew of figures who will likely be more remembered for entertaining YouTube clips than meaningful national legislation.
So happy trails to Michele Bachmann, I can't say that the Tea Party deserved better than you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

From Jim Wallis, Sojpurners



Today, the House of Representatives votes on the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly food stamps. The proposal would cut SNAP by nearly $40 billion over the next 10 years. These cuts would hurt millions of people, namely seniors and the poorest among us. But it will most heavily affect low-income families with children where the parent(s) work for a living but dont make enough to adequately feed their families. Working families with kids are 72 percent of all SNAP beneficiaries.

According to the Census Bureau, food stamps kept 4 million people out of poverty last year. The Congressional Budget Office reports that the House proposal would cut assistance to nearly 4 million low-income people in 2014 and an average of 3 million more each year for the next decade. Christian leaders across the evangelical, Catholic, Protestant, African-American, Hispanic, and Asian-American church spectrum are reacting with moral outrage at this assault on the people that Jesus specifically instructs us to protect.

Many of these leaders are from the Circle of Protection, a coalition of more than 65 heads of denominations and religious organizations, plus more than 5,000 church pastors. We have been working for more than two years to resist federal budget cuts that undermine the lives, dignity, and rights of poor and vulnerable people. 

Who are the pastors? They run across the political spectrum, but are characterized by one thing  they actually know poor people, work with low-income families, and have SNAP beneficiaries in their congregations. All of the pastors Ive ever talked to who know, work, and worship with those affected are adamantly opposed to these cuts because they know what they will mean to people they love.

One pastor I spoke to recently, a good man and friend, told me he was worried about government dependence, like the food stamp program. When I told him that the vast majority of food stamps go to working families with young children, and that they are usually only on the program temporarily during hard economic times; he said, You should get that out. He didnt know the facts and the faces of SNAP. So many of us in the faith community have worked to tell the facts and show the faces  to share our stories, to get that out.

The program has enjoyed bipartisan support through the years, but now congressional Republicans are determined to cut these critical nutrition programs to Americas hungry. Although SNAP benefits are modest (an average of less than $1.50 per person per meal), SNAP is the nations foremost tool against hunger and hardship, particularly during recessions and periods of high unemployment. Currently, 47 million Americans benefit from SNAP, but that number is expected to be greatly reduced once the economy recovers. SNAP is designed to expand in periods of great need and contract when the economy is better.

Is it ignorance of how deep the problem of food insecurity or hunger is in America now? Is it just ideology against government per se? Because many poor people do have to turn for help to their governments, anti-government rhetoric can often turn to anti-poor rhetoric. Have you seen the Fox News face of a SNAP recipient  a young blond California surfer who brags about cheating on food stamps? Why is Fox News lying? Why dont they tell the real facts and show the real faces of kids who are still hungry even though their parents work?

If you know the facts and faces of the hungry families that are helped by SNAP, I believe it is a moral and even religious problem to vote to cut funding for the program. The Bible clearly says that governmental authority includes the protection of the poor in particular, and instructs political rulers to promote their well-being. So the argument that the poor should just be left to churches and private charity is an unbiblical argument. I would be happy to debate that with any of our conservative Congressmen who keep telling our churches that we are the only ones who should care for the poor. To vote against feeding hungry people is un-Christian, un-Jewish, and goes against any moral inclination, religious or not.

Finally, for politicians to defend these SNAP cuts because of our need to cut spending in general is un-credible and incredible.

These same politicians are not willing to go to where the real money is: the Pentagon budget, which everyone knows to be the most wasteful in government spending, or the myriad subsidies to corporations, including agribusiness subsides to members of Congress who will be voting to cut SNAP for the poor.

Tea Party-elected Rep. Stephen Fincher, (R-Tenn.), who likes to bolster his anti-poor rhetoric with misused Bible verses, collected $3.5 million in farm subsidies between 1999 and 2012, according to the New York Times. Fincher is helping to lead the effort to cut food stamps to working families with children by illogically quoting: The one who is unwilling to work should not eat, all the while collecting millions of dollars in agricultural subsidies. Congressman Fincher's position is hypocritical  and it's this kind of hypocrisy that makes Christians look bad and turns young people away from the church.

You see, for many House conservatives this isn't really about SNAP, but about their opposition to the idea that as a society we have the responsibility to care for each other, even during the hard times or when resources are few. Conservatives know their ideas for privatizing Social Security or cutting funding to Medicare and Medicaid are politically unpopular, but their ideology of individualism that borders on social Darwinism remains unchanged. SNAP is the perfect target for them. The image of what it does and whom it serves has been widely distorted by the media, while the people who benefit from it have little influence in the halls of Congress and pose little risk to the political careers of Republican members. 

They are going after cuts to the poor and hungry people because they think it is politically safe to do so. So lets call that what it is: moral hypocrisy. Our job, as people of faith, is to protect the poor and to make it politically unsafe for politicians to go after SNAP  to pick on the poor. So we will be watching who votes against feeding the hungry this week and will remember to bring that to public attention when they run for re-election.

We will be doing our own faith count today.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

These folks are Crazy!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Indian Prayer

Remain close to the Great Spirit.
Show great respect for your fellow beings.
Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.
Be truthful and honest at all times.
Do what you know to be right.
Look after the well being of mind and body.
Treat the earth and all that dwell there on with respect.
Take full responsibility for your actions.
Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good.
Work together for the benefit of all man kind.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Republicans today traded food from our already hungry for Tax breaks for the Rich


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Indian Prayer
> 
> Remain close to the Great Spirit.
> Show great respect for your fellow beings.
> ...


alcameron
Could have been said by Pope Francis as well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

September 18, 2013
World War O
By GAIL COLLINS
The war against Obamacare: All the rationality of a Justin Bieber fan riot, and all the restraint
of Saw VI.
On Wednesday, leaders of the House of Representatives announced their plans for a 42nd and
43rd vote to thwart the new health care reform law. If they dont get their way, theyre
threatening to defund the government and crack the debt ceiling.
The law is a train wreck, said Speaker John Boehner. The majority leader, Eric Cantor, said
someone had to protect middle-class families from its horrific effects.
The arrival of Obamacare is worse than an invasion of giant zombies swinging nuclear-tipped
crocodiles! Yet it lives! If only we lived in a country where citizens had the power to turn things
around by voting lawmakers out of office. Like Uruguay or Latvia.
Seriously, people, why do you think the Republicans have gone so completely lunatic when it
comes to this issue? Why do they behave as if, once the health law begins to roll out, it will be
cemented in place like an amendment to the Constitution?
True, it would be a pain to repeal the whole thing if it doesnt work out. But not a pain sufficient
to wreak havoc on the global economy like, say, refusing to raise the debt ceiling. Senator Ted
Cruz of Texas has been leading the push to shut down the government unless Congress repeals
Obamacare. But have you ever heard him vow that if Congress doesnt repeal Obamacare there
will be ... elections and then a new Congress that will repeal Obamacare?
Actually, Ted Cruz has an answer for this. Once the law goes into effect, he told the Web site
The Daily Caller, the public will be overwhelmed by its sugary sweetness  hooked on the
subsidies. Its the duty of Congress to take it back before people can taste it, just the way New
York Mayor Michael Bloomberg tried to whisk away high-calorie Big Gulps.
So, the message is clear. The new health care law is going to be terrible, wreaking havoc on
American families, ruining their lives. And they are going to love it so much they will never have
the self-control necessary to give it up.
So the war goes on. No issue is too big to ignore in the name of Obamacare repeal. None is too
small. None is too unrelated. In the Senate, the latest victim was a popular, useful bill on energy
efficiency, whose happy march toward passage came screeching to a halt when a handful of
Republicans tried to make it a vehicle for votes on you-know-what.
This will be the most, the worst ... sputtered Harry Reid, grasping for adjectives before
settling on the least productive Senate in the history of the country.
Least productive was fairer than worst. After all, there was that session when somebody
beat Senator Charles Sumner half to death with a walking stick.
Anyway, things are ridiculously awful.
The energy efficiency bill is the legislative version of a fluffy puppy. It was co-sponsored by
Democrat Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. It involves
helping manufacturers save money on energy use, and creating new model building codes,
making plans and cooperating and studying. Portman and Shaheen have been working on it for
three years.
Energy efficiency is something everyone can agree to, said Shaheen in a phone interview.
Well, possibly not everybody. Its hard to predict how the bill would fare in the House, where
some people still havent gotten over the Bush administrations decision to phase out
incandescent light bulbs. But there were at least some signs of hope.
And things were going great in the Senate. The bill was approved 19 to 3 in committee. When it
came up for debate on the floor, nobody even attempted to offer a parliamentary motion to hold
up all progress indefinitely and then require 60 votes to move forward.
Then, Shaheen said sadly, Senator Vitter objected. David Vitter, a Louisiana Republican,
demanded a vote on his amendment to eliminate any health care subsidies for Congress. He was
followed by the minority leader, Mitch McConnell, waiving a proposal to postpone an entire
piece of the law. Reid refused to allow indefinite voting on Obamacare during the energy
efficiency bill debate. The fluffy puppy was caged in the basement.
You do not want to know all the details of Vitters motion. The original health care legislation
stripped members of Congress and their staff of their traditional insurance coverage. Nobody
would care if the members voted to cover themselves through policies available only on
Nigerian Internet sites. But the staff is another matter. If the amendment passes, people like
Congressional clerical workers would be virtually the only Americans offered every possible
disadvantage and none of the advantages of health care reform.
Its to get them to recognize the pain that Americas about to feel, said Senator Mike Enzi of
Wyoming.
Followed, of course, by delicious, addictive joy.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

This week, some of our elected officials are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the economic recession by literally taking food from the poor. At a time when nearly 50 million Americans struggle to put food on the table, the House is planning to slash nutrition assistance  leaving millions of children and working families hungry.

Conservatives in the House are trying to sneak their plan through before anyone notices.

Income inequality is higher now than it was before the crash in 2008, but instead of solving this problem, leaders in the House want to make it worse. If they succeed, up to 6 million people  including low-income seniors, veterans, and families with children  could lose the basic assistance they need just to eat.

Tell Congress to do its job and reduce hunger in America, not increase it. 

Jesus calls us to feed the hungry. Washington has different priorities, but our voices can change that. 

Sojourners
Faith in Action for Social Justice


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> These folks are Crazy!


Cheeky Blighter
crazy is an understatement.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

TIME TO STAND UP TO THE GUN NUTS

The week Wisconsin's new concealed carry law passed, "no guns allowed" signs started going up all over town.

I'll never forget the first morning I saw the picture of a gun with a line through it posted on the front door of my daughter's day care center.

Seeing those signs in the windows of restaurants, offices, and the toy store across the street from the Capitol was a shock. But the more of them I saw, the more they seemed to mark little islands of sanity in a society that has been taken over by the gun nuts.

The week after the movie theater massacre in Colorado, I was on Wisconsin Public Radio with a conservative who suggested that people should boycott businesses that post no-guns signs.

Not only did he reject the idea that we should consider limiting access to assault weapons and magazines that fire hundreds of rounds of ammunition at a time, he insisted that public opinion is on the side of letting people carry military-style guns wherever they go.

Like other Republicans, including Wisconsin's attorney general J.B. Van Hollen, he suggested that the real problem in Colorado was that there weren't more people carrying guns into the movie theater, so they could shoot back.

This extreme, dystopian view of the world would be laughable if it were not, increasingly, the way we now live.

Ever since 1994, when the NRA successfully targeted Democrats in swing districts who had the temerity to support the Brady Bill and President Clinton's assault weapons ban, there has been virtually no resistance to the gun lobby.

Both parties consider it far too dangerous to stand up to the NRA.

Thus we heard President Obama give lip service, after Colorado, to the idea that automatic weapons belong in the hands of soldiers, not on the streets. But the White House has no plans to revive the assault weapons ban or impose any other limits on weapons or ammunition.

The NRA, meanwhile, is pressing ahead. On Saturday, July 28 there was an NRA-sponsored shooting event for members of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) in Salt Lake City, Utah. ALEC is the group responsible for creating and promoting Stand Your Ground and other pro-gun laws in state legislatures around the country.

Just recently, it looked like bad publicity was going to help sever ALEC's cozy relationship with the gun lobby. After Trayvon Martin's tragic death in Florida, thanks to ALECs Stand Your Ground law, more than 20 corporations dropped out of ALEC and the group announced that it would no longer work with the NRA.

But, as Lisa Graves of the Center for Media and Democracy, the nation's foremost ALEC watchdog, reports, the NRA is still holding its annual ALEC shoot-out. And the group still appears to be helping come up with new ways to get more dangerous weapons into the hands of more people.

The latest target: gangster-era laws prohibiting the sale and use of machine guns.

At an ALEC meeting last December, Graves reports, the NRA got ALEC's crime task force to approve a modified "model" bill that would ban cities from barring the sale of "machine guns," expressly.

Imagine cities like Madison, (which still doesnt allow guns on city buses, in schools, or other city propertyand where you can buy one of those no-guns-allowed signs for $5 at the city clerk's office) were prohibited from preventing drunks on State Street from carrying machine guns?

NRA dittoheads, like my conservative friend on Wisconsin Public Radio, insist that gun control laws don't increase public safety. A crazy person like the Colorado shooter would simply have found another means of killing lots of people in the movie theater that night, he told me. But any police officer who has worked the night shift on a college campus can tell you how wrong that is. People who are inclined to do violence use the means that come to hand, and if those means are weapons of mass destruction, we are in for a very scary time.

When a crazy gunman fired off thirty rounds near a Safeway in Arizona, shooting Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and seventeen other people, including a nine year old girl, the gunmans automatic rifle jammed, allowing a Giffords staffer to tackle him and stop the violence.

Yet Congress has refused to get behind a simple piece of legislation that would make it illegal to purchase gun magazines that fire off more than ten rounds at a time. The Colorado shooter ordered 6,000 rounds on the Internet, perfectly legally, with no background check.

The obvious beneficiaries of our insanely liberal gun laws are weapons dealers. So it is no surprise the Browning Arms Company was a cosponsor with the NRA of the ALEC shooting event last Saturday. Browning's most famous product is the Browning Automatic Rifle, a military machine gun.

No doubt well hear more about how wed all be safer if we could tote our own machine guns. But people with common sense know better.

Years ago, just before we started sending our little girls started to Red Caboose Day Care Center in Madison, a crazy man ran in with a big knife. The Red Caboose staff responded heroically, confronting the man and protecting the children until police arrived. A police officer shot the man, but not before our teacher Gary in the Elephant Room was badly slashed, ending up in the hospital. You cannot convince me that the situation would have ended as it did--with no children hurt and no one dead except the attacker--if , instead of a knife, the attacker had been carrying a machine gun.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Criminalizing Christ: The Nationwide Targeting of the Homeless

There is no longer a war on poverty.

There is a war on the hungry. 

There is a war on the poor.

It is being waged all over the country with the most recent  and visible  battle coming from Raleigh, N.C., and the now-viral incident with the Rev. Hugh Hollowells Love Wins ministries.

Its ironic, really.

Conservatives love to tell folks that the best way to end poverty, homelessness, and need in our country is through the work and generosity of private individuals and private donations, not through government programs.

The answer, they say, is charity.

Yet in a stroke of cruel hypocrisy, when charities actually address these issues in real life, they arent commended for their work.

Rather, they are threatened with arrest. 

Thats exactly what happened to Hollowell and others with Love Wins. But, Hollowells experience is far from an aberrant or isolated incident in this country, and it is critically important we recognize that. In fact, this is one of the dangers of the (appropriate and encouraging) outpouring of support for Love Wins: that we will see this one injustice in isolation rather than in its broader context.

Right now, there is a critical opportunity to pivot the conversation and show how this one incident is symptomatic of a much larger issue. See, across the country, cities and lawmakers are targeting people who are homeless (and those who help them) for arrest and for removal. And they have been for years, as the experiences of Food Not Bombs demonstrates, as well as this comprehensive report from the National Coalition for the Homeless about food-sharing restrictions.

The list of cities targeting the homeless is long, and its not just a symptom of conservativism or of the Deep South. This targeting crosses all political lines. The list of 10 Meanest Cities toward the homeless includes conservative bulwarks like Atlanta as well as liberal ones like Berkeley and San Francisco. Their list of ordinances and tactics targeting and criminalizing homelessness is long, creative, and diabolical.

Cities have made it illegal to lie down. They have made it illegal to share a meal with people who are homeless. They have made it illegal to sit in parks or on benches for long periods of time. They have made it illegal to eat in public spaces. They change their parks watering schedules to douse anyone staying there after hours. They have removed completely and banned park benches. They have banned panhandling.

Columbia, S.C., marks the most recent example. The inhumane law essentially criminalizes all people who are homeless and implements what amounts to a systemic forced migration of the homeless.

Now, it would be easy to blame police officers, who are carrying out these tasks. The culprits in these situations are rarely the police officers. In fact, the police chief in Columbia refuses to implement that citys atrocious new law, saying, Homelessness is not a crime  We cant just take people to somewhere they dont want to go. I cant do that. I wont do that. 

The people pushing these laws, typically, are city planners, administrators, and elected officials who in their attempts to revitalize and redevelop urban centers with high-end developments, shopping districts, and other businesses simultaneously seek ways to get rid of homeless people living in their cities. 

Homeless people bring down property values. So, since they cant be priced out of homes through redevelopment, they are simply transformed into criminals.

It is the cruel gentrification of the homeless. 

In other words, people who make their homes on city streets arent considered valid stakeholders  citizens  when planners seek new to revitalize urban centers. Rather than seek how such redevelopment can improve the lives of people experiencing homeless, city leaders consider them nuisances and problems that need to be solved. 

I can think of no other group of people in our country that can be targeted so systemically and so blatantly just for their very existence with so little outcry. It is heartening and encouraging to see so many cheering on Love Wins this week, and Hollowells nonprofit has courageously stood its ground without alienating others. Suddenly, homelessness is the subject of an international conversation. But now I pray we take this gift Love Wins has given the world and speak to the broader issue, not just the local, individual one.

As a Christian, I know Jesus teaches us that we are to offer food to the hungry, to welcome the stranger, to give water to the thirsty  the least of these on the margins of society. But he goes much farther than that. He identifies with the least of these so much so that he says any time there is a hungry, thirsty or ostracized person, that person is Christ himself. 

And if we dont share our food, our water, or our welcome, then we are rejecting the Incarnation of God in this world. 

Thats why the incident with Love Wins isnt only about sharing food with the hungry and homeless. It isnt just about the larger war on the hungry and the poor being waged in city councils, state houses, and in the federal government. 

It isn't even about the criminalization of homeless people, their advocates, and friends. 

It is about the criminalization of Christ.

A former journalist, the Rev. David R. Henson is a minister (transitional deacon) in the Episcopal church and authors the blog Edges of Faith at Patheos. He is the father of two boys and the spouse of a medical student. Find him on Facebook or on Twitter @davidrhenson.This piece originally appeared at The God Article.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh the Insanity when there is no Humanity!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

House Republicans carried through with a vote on their never-gonna-be-law bill cutting food stamps by $40 billion over 10 years. The bill passed the House on a 217 to 210 vote, with 15 Republican defections. If the president and the Senate did not stand in the way of this bill ever becoming law, 3.8 million people would lose Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits in 2014. Republican swore up and down their plan would put people to work ... by requiring them to work or participate in a job training program for benefits, regardless of whether work or job training was available; as one Democrat pointed out during debate, the bill claims to promote job training yet does not contain funding for it.
While 15 Republican defections is a low number in
historical contextafter all, not so very long ago there was bipartisan agreement that hunger was
bad and food stamps were a very efficient way to reduce itit's a relatively high number given
today's far far right Republican Party. Nevada Republican Rep. Joe Heck even spoke against the bill:

Rep. Joe Heck pointed out that this bill would end #SNAP
assistance to 170,000 Veterans. 

Republicans will try to use this bill as leverage to force the Senate to cut food stamp funding by
more than the $400 million a year already in the Senate farm bill (to the Senate's shame); Sen.
Debbie Stabenow, chair of the Senate Agriculture Committee, said the House bill "will never see the
light of day in the Senate."


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

The New York Times

The Opinion Pages

TIMOTHY EGAN July 11, 2013, 9:00 pm 518 Comments
The Charade of Darrell Issa
By TIMOTHY EGAN

Timothy Eganon American politics and life, as seen from the West.
TAGS:
ISSA, DARRELL E, UNITED STATES POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT
So, this guy who made a stink-pile of money in the car alarm business, and had some youthful trouble with the law over auto-related liberties, gets the break hes been waiting for after Republicans win control of the House in 2010. Hes given the keys to the biggest Caddie in Congress: the main oversight committee. Its loaded with everything  subpoena power, an overhead cam worth of auditors and investigators, a hyperkinetic staff devoted to keeping shine on the boss.
Hes got plans, lots of plans. Hes going to stage television-ready hearings and investigations of the White House. He will bring Barack Obama to his knees. I want seven hearings a week, times 40 weeks, he says. Dont worry about substance, he says of one subject field, itll be good theater.
For Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck, its a dream come true, all the things theyve been ranting about, finally getting the imprimatur of official business. For Darrell Issa, the congressman given free rein to free range in half-truths and conspiracies, its what hes always wanted. Hes a player! He exists to give Fox and friends programming.
But then, after millions of dollars in investigative forays, the wheels come off the ride. Fast and Furious  that gunrunning scheme into Mexico by federal agents, known to conservatives as a vast conspiracy by Obama to bring on gun control  is traced to the White House, just as Issa predicted. Except, it was George W. Bushs White House, where the practice of letting guns cross borders originated in a similar program called Operation Wide Receiver. Move along.
Solyndra, the subsidizing of a money-losing solar energy company, and the tragedy of Benghazi  Watergate-level cover-ups, yes? They both sank with truth that was much more banal and sad. Next.

In May, Issa hit it big with a story about Internal Revenue Service field agents questioning the nonprofit claims of Tea Party groups. This was a targeting of the presidents political enemies, said Issa. Again, dont worry about facts, he could trace it to Washington somehow  were getting to proving it, he said.
He never proved it, of course. Just the opposite. Upon closer examination, it was found that the I.R.S. was aggressively targeting liberal groups, as well, flagging those with progressive or medical marijuana in their names. Doh!
By now, it should be obvious that Representative Issa, a Republican from California who is one of the wealthiest members of Congress, is not the least bit interested in governing, a sentiment shared by a majority of his fellow nihilists in the House. Immigration reform  the most significant thing lawmakers could do in this decade  is a critically ill patient in the emergency room of the Republican House.
Issa made his governing intentions clear three years ago, when he told Rush Limbaugh that President Obama has been one of the most corrupt presidents in modern times. He later took back the comment, but his motive was exposed for the method that would follow: he would exercise all of his official power to prove a sinister narrative. He would do exactly what he accused Obama of doing, using government muscle to harass his political enemies. Anything that disproves his narrative  e.g. I.R.S. targeting of liberals  is swept aside. He starts with a conclusion and works his way back.
That he has been laughably inept, firing one blank after the other, is beside the point. Issa, as my colleague Mark Leibovich chronicles in his new book, This Town, is the monster that Washington has created for our times. As Kurt Bardella, Issas über-opportunistic aide, a Sammy Glick with a BlackBerry, says in the book: I am completely focused on making Darrell Issa a household name.
Bardella got in trouble for speaking the truth, the Michael Kinsley definition of a gaffe, when he called the focus of Issas investigations this crap. The characterization prompted a senior Democrat on Issas committee to write a letter inquiring why so many millions in taxpayer dollars, and countless weeks of Congressional attention, were being spent on this crap.
I should say, by way of anticipating pushback from Issas apologists, that nobody from the White House contacted me about the congressman. In his book, Leibovich notes that Obamas people were peddling dirt on Issa, particularly the time he was under investigation for grand theft auto, charges that were dropped long ago.
I live in the other Washington, more than 2,700 miles from That Town, but even in this far corner I can smell the tidal stench this summer. In Leibovichs book, the capital is a swamp of sycophants, vacuity and soullessness. Those new to power aspire to join the permanent class  a political herd that never dies or gets older, only jowlier, richer and more heavily made-up.
The rest of us, I suppose, could take a schadenfreude moment while considering the freaks who populate This Town. Or we could just laugh at the madness. But its not slip-on-the-banana-peel-funny when one of the three main branches of a venerable democracy falls apart. In Darrell Issa, for the age of dysfunctional politics, we have the government we deserve.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GUN NUTS

Gun nut is a derogatory term referring to a person (often, but not always, male and Republican) who believes in the right to keep and bear arms and makes a point of doing so with gusto.

Like mall ninjas, gun nuts rarely refer to themselves as such except in an ironic or sarcastic manner, and typically call themselves gun owners, collectors, or enthusiasts. However, there are several points separating genuine "nuts" from the average gun owner.
[edit]Absolutist views on gun rights
Nearly all gun owners, including moderates on the issue, believe in the right to keep and bear arms for sport, hunting, historical interest, and in most cases self-defense. What separates the average owner from the nut is the degree of such support. Most moderate, non-nutty gun owners accept or even support some degree of gun control (background checks, at the very least), or at most grumble about it creating long lines and ammo shortages/purchase limits at gun stores. Where they do oppose gun control, it is mostly from a utilitarian direction, questioning the crime-fighting efficacy of measures like assault weapons bans.
Many gun nuts, on the other hand, take a staunchly anti-regulatory position on the issue of gun control that veers into out-and-out crankery. Restrictions on semi-automatic (and in some cases fully-automatic) weapons, magazines that hold more than ten rounds, and "assault" features, as well as measures like waiting periods for gun purchases and permits for ownership and carry, are seen as not only an unnecessary burden, but as a step towards authoritarianism and a threat to freedom. This is the position of groups like the Gun Owners of America and the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, as well as, to a lesser extent, the more radical wing of the National Rifle Association.
However, this in and of itself is not a clear mark; one can take staunchly anti-gun control positions without being a nut. Some of them may not even own guns themselves, instead seeing it as a civil liberties issue.
[edit]Intended purpose of guns
Another dividing line between normal gun owners and nuts is the degree to which the idea of self-defense is embraced. Most gun owners take it as a given that defense of one's life, limb, loved ones, and property is an acceptable use for a firearm; the "castle doctrine" is rooted in this idea, as is support for concealed carry. The common refrain of responsible gun ownership is that one always hopes to never have to actually use a gun to kill another person, keeping it solely as a last resort in the event of the worst  a malicious home invasion a la the Manson Family, a spree killing, an attempted mugging or rape, etc. Even then, it is hoped that the mere sight of the gun, or the sound of it being cocked, would scare off any potential threats before things turned ugly.
Many gun nuts do not subscribe to this idea, instead keeping guns in the expectation of having to use them against intruders, robbers, or killers. While they may offer platitudes about hoping to never use their guns, their personal, unvoiced attitudes will differ. The guns they view as defensive weapons are likely to be higher-grade than simple pump-action/break-action shotguns or .45 pistols; instead, they will argue that semi-automatic rifles are necessary to defend one's home. Some go further and anticipate long-term societal breakdown and an oppressive police force or government as things to defend against.
Ironically, the latter view puts them in line with the original Black Panther Party, which called for African-Americans to embrace gun ownership in order to stand up to police brutality. Even more ironically, the position of the Black Panthers on the Second Amendment led directly to the passage, under Governor Ronald Reagan, of some of California's first gun control laws, with most of their chief backers being white conservatives afraid of black militancy; the galvanizing moment was when fifty Black Panthers brandishing guns marched into the California State Capitol as a protest.[1]
[edit]Conspiracy theories
Embrace of conspiracy theories is perhaps the clearest dividing line between the average gun owner and the true nut. As noted, a popular idea among gun nuts is that gun control is a threat to freedom, and that, by extension, the only way people could support it is if they have authoritarian tendencies or have been scared by those that do. As a result, they are often more inclined to believe that killing sprees committed with easily-accessible, high-grade firearms, like Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, and Sandy Hook, were false flag operations or staged hoaxes carried out by the government in order to drum up support for gun control, and that the United Nations' proposed Arms Trade Treaty[2][3], designed to crack down on smugglers and arms traffickers, is targeted at American gun owners. Likewise, there tends to be a significant deal of cross-pollination and sympathy with the militia movement and the radical right in general. In the last few years, a great deal of Agenda 21 conspiracies have become especially popular with gun nuts[4].
[edit]Things that aren't necessarily signs of a gun nut
A common stereotype is that gun nuts own vast stockpiles of weaponry and ammunition, to the point of having a room in their house that looks more like an armory than anything. While many do conform to this stereotype, owning lots of guns is not a mark of a nut. Many people collect guns in the same manner as others collect dolls, mugs, DVDs, action figures, or other items, seeing it chiefly as a hobby. Conversely, some gun nuts may only own a small number of guns, either not having the money for a large collection or feeling that it's better to become proficient with a few guns than to have several that they don't know how to use.[5]
[edit]Effect on the gun debate

The stereotype of the lunatic who sits on a stockpile of guns and ammo has frequently had a detrimental effect on the debate over gun ownership in America, with both sides buying into it to some degree. One one hand, responsible gun owners get legitimately offended by this stereotype when it is used by gun control advocates as the image of the "average" American gun owner, leading them to treat even reasonable gun control efforts with suspicion. On the other hand, gun manufacturers also seem to embrace this stereotype in their advertising, running ads seemingly aimed at this demographic, often directly linking guns with manliness.[6] Furthermore, it is always the loudest voices that get the most attention, and here it is no exception, with legitimate gun nuts getting the media spotlight by voicing positions on gun rights that few people can reasonably defend. Gun control advocates see all this and, incorrectly but not unreasonably, assume that most gun owners are like this, leading to the above.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Crazy is as Crazy does


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

,


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The Five Craziest Arguments At Yesterdays Climate
Hearing
BY RYAN KORONOWSKI ON SEPTEMBER 19, 2013 AT 9:11 AM

On Wednesday, EPA administrator Gina McCarthy and Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz
testified before a subcommittee of the House Energy and Commerce Committee about
the impact of President Obamas Climate Action Plan. The Republican side of the dais
argued against doing anything about carbon pollution, but they also spent much of
their time focused on inaccuracies and misconceptions about climate change.
McCarthy and Moniz, central to the presidents climate plan, did their best to explain
it to the assembled members. Ranking member Henry Waxman (D-CA) said this was
the first time in a long time that this committee is holding a hearing on climate
change and instead of addressing the urgency of action, GOP members wasted time
complaining about how many cabinet-level officials showed up, for example.
Here are the five oddest things Administrator McCarthy and Secretary Moniz heard
from House Republicans at Wednesdays hearing.

*1. Humans Are So Small And The Worlds So Big*
Chairman Ed Whitfield began the hearing by arguing that human carbon emissions are
insignificant, saying 3.75 percent of all worldwide emissions come from human
activity. This statement, kicking off a hearing about the governments response to
climate change, exposes a shocking lack of understanding for the Chair of the Energy
and Power subcommittee.
What Whitfields referring to is natural carbon dioxide emissions from animals,
plants, and oceans. What he did not say is those natural carbon dioxide emissions are
balanced by natural absorption of carbon dioxide by plants and oceans. This
equilibrium existed for millennia, until humans started burning much of the worlds
forests and extracting hydrocarbons that had been buried for millions of years.
Forests are carbon sinks, and so are oil, coal, and gas deposits.

So even if, as Rep. Whitfield says, humans only emit 30 gigatons of the 800 gigatons
of CO2 released into the atmosphere every year, the problem is that human emissions
dont have the same counterbalance that natural emissions do. The Keeling Curve that
tracks global carbon dioxide levels makes it clear that our emissions knocked that
equilibrium out of balance. Humans also have found ways to emit artificial super
pollutants that are much more potent greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide.

*2. The Earth Isnt Warming*
Rep. David McKinley (R-WV) told McCarthy and Moniz, here is the reality of
temperature changes over the last 40 years  actually we can say over 40 years there
has been almost no increase in temperature.
40 years ago was 1973. This graph, from NOAA, plots how global temperatures each
year are different from the average, and the steady increase in temperature is plain:
The upcoming IPCC report will also forecast that the globe will continue to warm,
alarmingly so, unless we slow and reverse the current pace of global carbon
emissions.
McKinley brought this report as well, saying that most experts think that the benefits
of climate change will outweigh the harm. However Americas most prescient climate
scientist, James Hansen, has a new paper out saying that warming levels will be
catastrophic if emissions continue as-is. (to be continued)


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hedge fund billionaire: Fed's move 'fantastic' for the rich
Robert FrankCNBC

5 hours ago
Video: CNBC's Steve Liesman reports there were three reasons the Fed decided to delay tapering its bond-buying program. And Stanley Druckenmiller, Duquesne Capital Management former chairman, and Jimmy Dunne, Sandler O'Neill, weigh in on how the Fed's policy ...
The Federal Reserve isn't just inflating markets. It's also shifting a massive amount of wealth from the middle-class and poor to the rich, according to billionaire hedge fund manager Stanley Druckenmiller.
In an interview on "Squawk Box," the founder of hedge fund Duquesne Capital said that the Federal Reserve's policy ofquantitative easing was inflating stocks and other assets held by wealthy investors like himself. But the price of making the rich richer will be paid by future generations.
"This is fantastic for every rich person," he said Thursday, a day after the Fed's stunning decision to delay tightening its monetary policy. "This is the biggest redistribution of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the rich ever."
"Who owns assetsthe rich, the billionaires. You think Warren Buffett hates this stuff? You think I hate this stuff? I had a very good day yesterday."
Druckenmiller, whose net worth is estimated at more than $2 billion, said that the implication of the Fed's policy is that the rich will spend their wealth and create jobsessentially betting on "trickle-down economics."
"I mean, maybe this trickle-down monetary policy that gives money to billionaires and hopefully we go spend it is going to work," he said. "But it hasn't worked for five years."
The big debate
Economists and academics are divided on whether the Fed's policies have truly helped the rich at the expense of the rest of America. Many point out that the Fed's policies have lowered interest rates for all Americans, which have helped boost housing sales and values. They also say unemployment and the economy would be a lot worse if the Fed didn't continue its huge monthly bond purchases.
Yet others say the Fed's policies have mainly juiced asset pricesand the wealthy hold most of the assets. There is no reliable data on the wealth of the top 1 percent for the past two years, when markets have surged. But as of 2010, the mean and median net worth of Americans was still down 50 percent in 2010 from the pre-crisis peak, mainly due to the decline in home values, according to Edward Wolff, a professor of economics at New York University.
(Read more: Druckenmiller: Fed just lost chance for a 'freebie' )
By contrast, the number of millionaireshouseholds worth $1 million or more, including homeshit an all-time record in 2010, according to Wolff. Separate studies of millionaire populations from Spectrem Group and Capgemini also show that the population of millionaires hit an all-time record in 2012.
The top 1 percent of Americans hold 35 percent of the nation's wealthup slightly since 2007. The top 10 percent of Americans own more than 80 percent of all stocks and more than half of all individual financial assets in the U.S., according to the Federal Reserve and Wolff.
1% gets 95%
A stream of new data on inequality also suggest that the gap between the wealthy and the non-wealthy is growing, due largely to rising stock markets. New data from Emmanuel Saez, an economist at the University of California Berkeley, found that the top 1 percent captured 95 percent of the gains during the recovery.
According to the Census Bureau, incomes for the middle class have largely remained flat while the wealthy have gained. The income top 10 percent earns nearly 12 times as much as the bottom 10 percent, up from a little more than 10 percent in 1999.
(Read more: Why government probably can't close rich-poor gap)
A report from The Associated Press recently finds that unemployment remains much higher for the middle and lower class than in higher-income groups.
The wealth of America's top 400 billionaires grew by $300 billion in the past year, hitting $2 trillion, according to Forbes.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

May all the hungry remember for the rest of their lives who caused them so much physical pain.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Gun Nuts Go Too Far Again -- And This Time, Even Gun Advocates Are Calling the Gun Crazies "Idiots"
Starbucks CEO asks customers carrying rifles to stay away after gun crazies stage a series of weapon-wielding protests.

September 19, 2013 |

Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz has decided that gun nuts do not go with lattes.

On Tuesday, he wrote an open letter to Fellow Americans respectfully asking gun owners not to bring their weapons into his nationwide chain of coffee shops, even in states where open carry laws permit residents to carry guns in public.

The request, which has drawn wide media attention and condemnation from pro-gun groups, came after gun-control foes targeted Starbucks. They saw a business with liberal values and decided to hold Starbucks Appreciation Days, during which they marched into Starbucks with their guns in plain view, ordered drinks, and lingered with their gunsincluding assault riflesleaning against their chairs and laps.

The most confrontational of these incendiary protests was to take place at a coffee shop on August 9 in Newtown, Connecticut, near the elementary school where a shooter killed 20 children and six staff members last December. In response, Starbucks corporate management closed that store early, out of respect for Newtown and everything the community has been through, the companys website announced. Newtown Action Alliance, a gun-control group formed after the shootings, said the protest by gun advocates from Connecticut Open Carry was reprehensible.

But the gun nuts did not stop there. In this YouTube video from San Antonio, Texas, three men gloated about sitting outside of a Starbucks with military-style rifles in their laps to enjoy their coffees and freedoms. After police showed up as asked what was going on and said that creating a disturbance was a crime, one man replied, If someone has a problem with what were doing, that doesnt mean we are breaking the law.

Open Carry supporters even made stickers of the woman in the center of the Starbucks logo holding two pistols, surrounded by I LOVE [heart] GUNS & COFFEE.

These actions prompted Starbucks president and CEO to draw a fine line: not outright banning guns in states with open carry laws but asking people to leave their guns outside his business. Howard Schultz wrote:

Our companys longstanding approach to open carry has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws dont exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcementnot by Starbucks and our store partners.

Recently, however, weve seen the open carry debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called Starbucks Appreciation Days that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of open carry. To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

Starbucks has more than 11,000 outlets across the country. Schultz told The Wall Street Journal that his letter was not prompted by the mass shooting at the Washington Navy Yard on Monday where 12 people were killed, but we dont believe guns should be part of the Starbucks experience.

Many blue states and local governments restrict people from bringing concealed guns into certain businesses, such as those selling alcohol. Last week, Chicago adopted that restriction for restaurants and bars. But red states have gone the opposite way, such as a recent North Carolina law allowing guns in businesses unless restaurant and bar management expressly request otherwise.

Pages


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sad isn't it?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Conservatives like to pretend there is no war on women, so PoliticusUSA developed a running list of legislation to prove that there is indeed a war on women. The proof is in the policy, and policy trumps words.

Included in Hrafnkell Haraldssons monthly updates to the Dirty Thirty (a list of egregious legislation proposed or passed) is a surreal list of legislation that proves the war on women is very real.

The New York Times relatesthat Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington State, the top-ranking Republican woman in the House, was quoted by The Daily Beast last week as saying that Democrats were fabricating the war on women to distract from real issues. Read and decide for yourself if this war on women is imaginary. As Joan Walsh writes on AlterNet,

Democrats didnt make the GOP presidential field back personhood laws that would criminalize some forms of birth control. They didnt force the newly elected House GOP to make defunding Planned Parenthood their first legislative goal. And they didnt propose the Blunt Amendment that would have allowed employers to withhold health insurance coverage not only for contraception, but for any treatment they disapproved of

(As always, new items and categories in red  note that hyperlinks in new material are not readily apparent because they too are red).

The War on Womens Reproductive Rights

Despite an electorate that is overwhelmingly pro-choice, there is no doubt that the GOPs first goal is to deprive women of their reproductive rights and to frame that argument not as one of health but religion. It is in fact so important an issue to the GOP that out of some 40,000 laws of all types enacted in 2011, as RMuse wrote here recently, there were nearly 1,000 bills in state legislatures to restrict a womans right to legal abortion services (up from 950 in 2010). Alternet lists the 10 worst states in which to be a woman. The lone piece of good news was the unexpected sanity of Mississippi voters. Interestingly, the GOP is now trying to co-opt the War on Women for their own, accusing liberals of waging war on pro-choice women, or declaring that Obama is waging a war on women and that the Obama White House has been a hostile work environment. This is while Congress, already in 2012, has taken no less than eight votes against women  in just three months. It is frightening to think what the final toll might be by December 31.

o A recent report from the Guttmacher Institute details the extent of 2011′s war on Womens Reproductive Rights. The report states,
By almost any measure, issues related to reproductive health and rights at the state level received unprecedented attention in 2011. In the 50 states combined, legislators introduced more than 1,100 reproductive health and rights-related provisions, a sharp increase from the 950 introduced in 2010. By years end, 135 of these provisions had been enacted in 36 states, an increase from the 89 enacted in 2010 and the 77 enacted in 2009. (Note: This analysis refers to reproductive health and rights-related provisions, rather than bills or laws, since bills introduced and eventually enacted in the states contain multiple relevant provisions.)
Fully 68% of these new provisions92 in 24 states-restrict access to abortion services, a striking increase from last year, when 26% of new provisions restricted abortion. The 92 new abortion restrictions enacted in 2011 shattered the previous record of 34 adopted in 2005.
Abortion restrictions took many forms: bans (6 states), waiting periods (3 states), ultrasound 5 states), insurance coverage (3 states joined the existing 5 with such restrictions), clinic regulations (4 states), medication abortion (7 states).

o Anti-abortion Laws

Republican legislators have introduced a wide array of laws designed to either outlaw abortion outright or to discourage it by making ridiculous and sometimes humiliating requirements of women who might consider having a pregnancy terminated. These include so-called TRAP (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) regulations.
Republicans in the House proposed a bill (HR 1179) called Respect for Rights of Conscience Act of 2011. The bill, introduced by Jeff Fortenberry (R-Neb), allows health care providers and pharmacists to deny birth control to women if it conflicts with their religious or moral convictions. The Senate is expected to vote on its version of HR 1179 during the week of February 27 where it is known as S. 1467, whose primary sponsor is Sen. Roy Blunt (R-MO) and has become an amendment to Transportation Authorization Bill S. 1813. The Blunt Amendment was defeated in the Senate on a narrow vote of 51 to 48 on March 1, 2012.
In Texas, Rep. George Lavender, R-Texarkana, has proposed a bill (House Bill 2988) that would prevent any abortion except in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother.
In Georgia, a bill, the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act (SB 209) sponsored by Sen. Barry Loudermilk, R-Cassville, would close all abortion clinics in the state and require abortions to be performed in hospitals. This bill was tabled by the rules committee on March 11, 2011.
South Dakota wants to require spiritual counseling (House Bill 1217) at religious centers before allowing an abortion to take place. The bill was signed into law in March 2011 and challenged in court by Planned Parenthood and the ACLU in May. We still havent heard what the courts will decide in this case (though a federal judge has suspended most of the law in the interim) and Republicans arent waiting to find out. The South Dakota House of Representatives approved a bill on February 13 sponsored by Rep. Roger Hunt, R-Brandon that changes counseling requirements. Women seeking abortions will still have to wait 72 hours and endure spiritual counseling but now requires those counselors be licensed. The consulting doctor will now have to decide if it is likely the woman will develop mental health problems as a result of the abortion. As a side note, in both 2006 and 2008 voters rejected attempts to outlaw most abortions.
Also in South Dakota, H.B. 1166, which was enacted in 2005, was, says RHRealityCheck.org, billed as an informed consent law, but what it really mandated was misinformation, requiring doctors to tell a woman seeking an abortion that she faces an increased risk of suicide ideation and suicide, a claim for which there is absolutely no scientific or medical evidence. On September 2, 2011, Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals threw out important provisions of a South Dakota law that literally forced doctors to lie to their patients.
The Texas State House of Representatives has passed the Sonogram Bill (HB 15), a measure requiring women to get a sonogram before ending a pregnancy, forcing even victims of rape to have a sonogram at least 24 hours before the procedure. Gov. Rick Perry has signed the bill into law, which takes effect September 1, 2011. There are exceptions in cases of rape and incest. As Planned Parenthood reports: While a woman can opt-out of seeing the sonogram image and hearing the heart tone, she cannot opt-out of a medically unnecessary sonogram, nor can she opt-out of the fetal description except within very narrow parameters for situations of rape, incest, judicial bypasses, and fetal anomalies.
Also from Texas, the passage of SB 257, passed by House and Senate on May 5, 2011 and signed by the governor on May 17, 2011 provides for Choose Life license plates. As explained by Planned Parenthood: The state will now produce Choose Life license plates and distribute revenue from the sale of the plates to anti-choice groups such as crisis pregnancy centers (CPC). The Alternative to Abortion program currently receives $4 million dollars a year in taxpayer money through the Health and Human Services Commission (HHSC) that is distributed to CPCs. CPC are unregulated anti-choice organizations that do not provide any medical services and are known to spend nearly half of the tax dollars they receive on advertising and administrative costs, not client services.
Georgia State Representative Bobby Franklin has introduced a bill that would not only make abortion illegal but would make miscarriages illegal.
Indiana (House Bill 1210) wants to force doctors to lie to women about abortion causing breast cancer despite medical evidence to the contrary in order to discourage women from having abortions
Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) introduced a bill in the U.S. House of Representatives, the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act, (HR 3) that would limit the rape exemption for abortion to forcible rape which would have defined many rapes, for example, statutory rape of a minor, as non-forcible and therefore not covered by federal assistance. Mother Jones has reported another aspect of this legislation, that the IRS would be turned into abortion-cops: Were this to become law, people could end up in an audit, the subject of which could be abortion, rape, and incest, says Christopher Bergin, the head of Tax Analysts, a nonpartisan, not-for-profit tax policy group. If you pass the law like this, the IRS would be required to enforce it.
Representative Joe Pitts (R-PA) introduced a bill (HR 358  the Protect Life Act) would allow states to deny insurance coverage for birth control meaning hospitals could deny abortion procedures and transport to a facility that would provide a woman with an abortion even if failure to provide an abortion would mean the death of the woman. The Let Women Die Act passed the House on 10/13/11.
Louisiana State Rep. John LaBruzzo, R-Metairie, in what he calls a direct challenge to Roe v. Wade, wants to make both women and doctors who have and perform abortions guilty of the crime of feticide. This personhood amendment (House Bill 587)would make no exceptions for cases of danger to the health of the mother, incest or rape but would for medically necessary abortions. Feticide is currently punishable by 5 to 15 years in prison. LaBruzzo once wanted to pay poor women $1,000 to have their tubes tied because he was afraid they were reproducing at a faster rate than more affluent, better-educated people who presumably pay more tax revenue to the government, says Nola.com. Update: HB 587 became HB 645 on May 25, 2011 and to the relief of sane people everywhere eventually derailed in the state House.
The U.S. House of Representatives passed (by a 234-182 vote) an amendment sponsored by Virginia Foxx (R-NC) prohibiting teaching hospitals from receiving federal funding if they teach doctors how to perform abortions. Unfortunately, as a result of this legislation new physicians will not receive the training needed to save womens lives. As Correntewire.com puts it, 234 members of the House voted to ban the teaching of medical procedures that are vital in saving the lives of women who have miscarried, or have complications that endanger their health, or who arent even pregnant.
In Ohio, Janet Porters Heartbeat Bill criminalizing abortion and which was backed by Newt Gingrich and Michele Bachmann, passed the Ohio State House on June 28, 2011. It prohibits abortions after only about six weeks, a time when many women do not yet even know they are pregnant, said Armond Budish, leader of the Democratic caucus in the House. The bill is currently being held up in the Senate. See the latest update on Porters antics at Right Wing Watch.
Also in Ohio, The state budget, approved June 28, 2011 by the Senate, bars state hospitals from performing abortions.
Mother Jones reports that Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1 [2011]. This is the result, according to Mother Jones, of passage in April of a law directing the Kansas Department of Health and Environment to author new facility standards for abortion clinics, which the staunchly anti-abortion GOP governor, Sam Brownback, signed into law on May 16. It turns out that if you want to know how these new rules were developed, you cant, because the Republicans dont want to tell you, and wont.
On July 1, 2011 a budget impasse shut down the government of the state of Minnesota. The Republican majorities in the house and senate refuse to negotiate in good faith, insisting that a list of social issues be included in the budget, including abortion restrictions.
In Arizona, the House of Representatives passed House Bill 2443 sponsored by Republican Rep. Steve Montenegro, on February 21, 2011. The bill, if passed into law, would criminalize abortions being performed because of the race or sex of the fetus. Montenegro claims that there are targeted communities that the abortion industry targets. If made law, HB 2443 would require that women seeking abortions in Arizona will have to sign a statement declaring that race or sex was not the reason they sought the procedure.
Also from Arizona, there is House Bill 2036 which would ban abortions after 20 weeks. It was passed by the Senate on March 29, 2012 and will now go before the House for consideration. As Mother Jones reports, the legislation is modeled on the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act designed by the National Right to Life Committee and the ACLU has called it the most extreme bill of its kind. Update: Governor Jan Brewer signed HB 2036 on April 12, 2012, which as Raw Story points out, takes Nebraskas 20-week abortion ban one step further by starting the clock on pregnancies at the womans last last menstrual period, which could be two weeks before fertilization. In other words, your pregnancy legally begins before conception! Take that, science!
And another gem from Arizona is House Bill 2800, introduced in February and now referred to the Senate Rules Committee, which would deprive Planned Parenthood of public funds, depriving women of healthcare unrelated to abortion. Update [4.24.12]: the Arizona State Senate approved the bill on Tuesday, April 24; the House has previously approved it. Planned Parenthood says the ban would affect some 19,000 women in the state.
Oh, and we cant forget Arizonas House Bill 2625, which as azcentral.com reports, would allow companies to opt out of covering contraception in their health-care plans for religious reasons, proving once and for all that Arizona Republicans are legislating religion in violation of the Constitution, and that their religion trumps your beliefs.
In Illinois Rep. Darlene Senger, R-Naperville in March 2011 submitted a bill  anti-abortion legislation mind, which would require clinics that perform more than 50 abortions a year to meet the same regulatory requirements as other medical outpatient surgery clinics  to the House Agriculture and Conservation Committee. Why, you ask? Because the agriculture committee is dominated by conservative downstate Democrats and Republicans. And guess what? They passed it: unanimously.
In Florida, during a debate about a bill that would prohibit governments from deducting union dues from a workers paycheck, Rep. Scott Randolph (D-Orlando) said if my wifes uterus was incorporate the legislature would be talking about deregulating. Rep. Randolph was then taken to task for using the word uterus by the House leadership, which said that the word was language that would be considered inappropriate for children and other guests.
In Florida Republicans passed House Bill 501 redistributes funds from Choose Life license plates to the Ocala-based Choose Life, Inc, which the Florida Association of Planned Parenthood Affiliates says will result in more funds being given to crisis pregnancy centers, anti-abortion organizations that falsely market themselves as professional health facilities.
In Virginia, RH Reality Check reports that Governor Bob McDonnell found time to issue regulations for first trimester abortion providers that go well beyond any existing regulations seen in other states, including South Carolina, according to the Virginia Coalition to Protect Womens Health. Apparently, these draft regulations  (SB 924) were formulated under an emergency process that bypasses public review and comment periods and standard economic assessments for new regulations and is undemocratic on its face. They will be put into effect up to 18 months to 2 years in advance of any permanent regulations. In a blatant attempt to eliminate first trimester abortions, reports RH Reality Check, the regulations contain what can only be called ridiculous mandates for abortion providers, such as requiring specific sizes of rooms and lengths of hallways which have nothing to do with either patient care or safety. See also the article in Mother Jones about how these new rules would affect the Falls Church Planned Parenthood Clinic.
In the U.S. House the Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act (PRENDA) otherwise known as HR 3541, is being called a civil rights bill by its Republican sponsors. Under this bill, physicians would be banned from performing abortions based on the race of the fetus, something that does not happen anyway, apparently, since nobody could offer any evidence that it did.
WRAL.com reports that A Cabarrus County lawmaker wants to bring back public hangings in North Carolina as a deterrent to crime, and he says doctors who perform abortions should be in the line to the gallows. According to WRAL, Republican Rep. Larry Pittman, who was appointed to the District 82 House seat in October, expressed his views in an email sent Wednesday to every member of the General Assembly. Pittman said in his email: If murderers (and I would include abortionists, rapists, and kidnappers, as well) are actually executed, it will at least have the deterrent effect upon them. For my money, we should go back to public hangings, which would be more of a deterrent to others, as well. Pittman calls himself a pastor and says he didnt mean to send the email to everybody, only to Rep. Tim Moore, R-Cleveland. Republicans need to learn to be careful around demon-technology.
In Iowa, House File 2298, introduced by Rep. Kim Pearson, R-Pleasant Hill, would criminalize all abortions, including those resulting from rape and incest and would make no exceptions for the life of the mother when put at risk by her pregnancy. The punishment for ending a life (excepting of course the life of a mother) would be life in prison and women who miscarry will face criminal investigation.
In Georgia, Senate Bill 434, sponsored by Sen. Judson Hill, R-Marietta, (he proposed calling it the Federal Abortion Mandate Opt-Out Act) would ban healthcare providers from covering abortion except in cases where the mothers life is endangered.
Also in Georgia, Senate Bill 438, sponsored by Sen. Mike Crane (R-Newman), would provide that no health insurance plan for employees of the state shall offer coverage for abortion services.
Again in Georgia, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported on February 15, 2012, A bill to limit abortions is also being considered in the House. House Bill 954, sponsored by Rep. Doug McKillip, R-Athens, was filed last week and is what is commonly referred to as a fetal pain bill. It says that a fetus can react to pain at 20 weeks, and it seeks to outlaw abortions at or past 20 weeks of pregnancy.
Kansas Republicans have unleashed a blitzkrieg on womens reproductive rights. A Kansas house subcommittee will began considering a bill Wednesday that draws inspiration from anti-abortion laws in Texas, Oklahoma and Arizona. Reports HuffPo: The bill includes provisions similar to those found in other state laws now facing federal lawsuits, including Texas requirement that the mother hear the fetal heartbeat, and Oklahomas mandate that mothers be told about a potential risk of breast cancer with an abortion. It also would replicate Arizonas provision prohibiting tax deductions for abortion-related groups. Women would also have to undergo a sonogram before having an abortion. The bills sponsor is Kansas House Federal and State Affairs Committee. The Kansas City Star reports that The bill is one of four abortion-related measures pending in the Legislature.
Think Progress reports that In the escalating war on womens rights in statehouse across the country, Iowa state Rep. Kim Pearson (R) may have just dropped the biggest bomb yet. House File 2298 introduces the crime of Fetacide: Any person who intentionally terminates a human pregnancy, with the knowledge and voluntary onsent of the pregnant person, after the end of the second trimester of the pregnancy where death of the fetus results, commits feticide. Feticide is a class C A felony. Any person who attempts to intentionally terminate a human pregnancy, with the knowledge and voluntary consent of the pregnant person, after the end of the second trimester of the pregnancy where death of the fetus does not result, commits attempted feticide. Attempted feticide is a class D B felony. A class A felony is punishable by life in prison, class B by 25 years. Keep in mind abortion is legal in the United States (see Roe v. Wade).
Louisiana seems intent on following the general Republican practice of taking extreme stances against abortion. Case in point: a new piece of legislation (SB 330), filed March 1, 2012 by Sen. Rick Ward III, D-Maringouin, would outlaw abortion by anyone but a licensed physician and label any abortion performed by any individual who is not a physician licensed by the state of Louisiana would be deemed a brand new crime: dismemberment (aggravated criminal abortion by dismemberment to be precise). Violators, reports Nola.com, would face a prison term of one to five years, a fine of $5,000 to $50,000 or a jail sentence and a fine. The bill defines a physician as someone who holds a medical or an osteopathic degree from a medical college in good standing with the Louisiana State Board of Medical Examiners and has a license, permit, certification or registration issued by the board to practice medicine in the state.
Also in Louisiana, reports Planned Parenthood, House Concurrent Resolution 54, by Rep. Frank Hoffman (West Monroe  R), aimed to encourage Congress to defund Planned Parenthood, but was tied up in Senate Finance at the close of the [2011 legislative] session which ended June 23, 2011. Hoffman claims, reports Nola.com, that that giving the organization federal funding for services such as screenings for breast and cervical cancer indirectly helps Planned Parenthood provide abortions.
A last item from Louisiana: On July 6, 2011, Gov. Bobby Jindal signed into law Rep. Frank Hoffmans HB 636. As Planned Parenthood reports: HB 636 requires Abortion providers to post coercion prevention/abortion alternative signs and gives DHH the authority to develop a new abortion alternatives website. Visitors to the website will not receive comprehensive information about pregnancy options; agencies that provide comprehensive pregnancy options education or provide abortion care will not be allowed to post information on the site.
A New York Times editorial calls into question a recent Republican brainstorm on Capitol Hill: The Judiciary Committee in the Republican-controlled House held a hearing to promote a mean-spirited and constitutionally suspect bill called the Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act. This bill would create a mandatory parental notification requirement and 24-hour waiting period on women under 18 who travel outside their home state to get an abortion and punish anyone who helps the minor with criminal and civil penalties that include up to a year in prison and a $100,000 fine. As the editorial points out, It is both an attack on womens rights and on the basic principles of federalism. And of course, it wont create one single job.
In what can only be seen as a punitive and hateful punishment of women who have abortions, Georgia Republican Rep. Terry England, in support of a bill which would ban abortions after 20 weeks (HR 954), says (video here) that women should be forced to carry dead fetuses to term. Why? Because cows and pigs have to do it and thats apparently how his god wants it. Never mind the health risk to mothers being forced to carry dead fetuses to term. Republicans hate mothers and want them to die early and often.
In Tennessee, in yet another attempt to shame and punish women and doctors who have the audacity to disagree with fundamentalist religious views, the Life Defense Act of 2012 (H.B. 3808) would reveal the names not only of doctors who perform abortions but would also identify women who have abortions, posting that information on the Internet. According to HuffPo, the information revealed would include the womans age, race, county, marital status, education level, number of children, the location of the procedure and how many times she has been pregnant. The legislation is sponsored by state Rep. Matthew Hill (R-Jonesboro) after it was suggested by Tennessee Right To Life. Since Republicans control both House and Senate, the bill will in all likelihood pass, despite the ruling of the Tennessee Supreme Court in 2000 that abortion is a right protected by the state constitution.
From Alaska comes HB 363, which, as Planned Parenthood tells us, forbids full disclosure of pregnancy options and referrals for abortions, in flagrant violation of requirements made by federal funding laws, further pointing out that [a]bortion is a fundamental right in Alaska, as protected by two State Supreme Court rulings in 1997 and 2001. Any law limiting access, particularly one such as HB363 that targets poor women, is an attack on our Alaskan values: individual freedom from government interference, privacy and fair treatment under the law.
In the TRAP department, Minnesota Republicans want to prove to America theyre as hateful as any GOP misogynist when, says MPR, The Senate Health and Human Services Committee [on February 27, 2012] advanced two bills that would place restrictions on clinics that provide abortions. S.F. 1912 (H.F. 2341), authored by Sen. Paul Gazelka, R-Brainerd, would ban doctors from administering RU486 without being present in the room (currently it can be done by webcam) on the grounds that it is deadly, yet as the StarTribune reports, Opponents countered that the death rate from medication abortions is approximately one out of every 100,000 women who take RU-486. The death rate for Viagra, by contrast, is approximately 5 for every 100,000. An attempt by Rep. Phyllis Kahn, DFL-Minneapolis, offered an amendment to the bill that would have put mens sexual activity under the same scrutiny as womens. Her amendment would require medical supervision when men take Viagra. The Republican dominated House voted down the amendment 95-28, showing the true punitive purpose behind the bill. Governor Mark Dayton (D) vetoed the bill, pointing out that it targets only facilities which provide abortions.
The other bill, S.F. 1921 (H.F. 2340), authored by Sen. Claire Robling, R-Jordan, would require facilities that perform 10 or more abortions per month to be licensed and subject to random inspections. On April 18, 2012, the bills passed the Minnesota House and Senate. yet Minnesota does not require licensing of clinics providing outpatient surgery. As MRP reminds us, Gov. Mark Dayton vetoed several abortion bills during last years legislative session. The good news is that the state legislature lacks the votes to overturn a veto. Currently, at least six states, including North Dakota and South Dakota, have bans on so-called webcam abortions.
Wisconsin Republicans are convinced that women are being coerced into having abortions and they are determined to put a stop to it. Their answer is SB 306, Voluntary and informed consent and information on domestic abuse services, authored by Sen. Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) and Rep. Michelle Litjens (R-Oshkosh). The bill also protects women from RU-486 (but not men from Viagra). SB 306 was signed into law by Gov. Scott Walker on April 6, 2012. As a result, Planned Parenthood has done exactly what Wisconsin Republicans desire and suspended non-surgical abortions in Wisconsin. The lesson is: TRAP laws work. Rose v. Wade says abortion is legal; TRAP laws make it impossible in practice.
Also in Wisconsin on April 6, 2012: Gov. Scott Walker signed into law SB 92 relating to: prohibiting coverage of 2abortions through health plans sold through exchanges. This is an anti-Obamacare bill, pure and simple, and it states This bill prohibits a qualified health plan offered through any exchange operating in this state from covering any abortion the performance of which is ineligible for funding from the state, a local government, or a long-term care district or from federal funds passing through the state treasury.
In Mississippi Republicans think they have found a way to eliminate abortion in their state without directly challenging Roe v. Wade: Having said that he plans to make his state abortion-free (the state already has only one abortion clinic), Gov. Phil Bryant signed Mississippi House Bill 1390 on April 16, 2012, which requires all physicians who perform abortions to have admitting privileges at a local hospital and board certification in obstetrics and gynecology. Bryant said: I believe that all human life is precious, and as governor, I will work to ensure that the lives of the born and unborn are protected in Mississippi, Apparently, the lives of mothers arent important in Mississippi. State Rep. Adrienne Wooten (D-Jackson) told the men in the House:Now, if youre that concerned about unplanned pregnancies, go get snipped, The bill takes effect July 1, 2012.
Thats not all from Mississippi. Planned Parenthood tells us that In addition to the abortion law signed by Bryant today, on Tuesday the House passed a backdoor personhood amendment to a bill intended to protect Mississippi children. If enacted, the amended bill could outlaw birth control, infertility treatments and all abortions  no exceptions. After passing the House, Senate Bill 2771 is now in the Senate for a concurrence vote.
In Ohio, Republicans are about defund Planned Parenthood, having made certain that Gov. John Kasichs (R) mid-budget review bill contains language that prevents the organization from receiving federal funding worth $1.7 million because the funding is administered by the state Department of Health (blame and shame for the language should attach itself to Rep. Kristina Roegner of Hudson, Rep. Cliff Rosenberger of Clinton County and House Finance Chairman Rep. Ron Amstutz of Wooster). This is supposed to be a move to stop abortions but the money cant be used for abortions (and only 3 of the states 37 clinics actually provide abortion services) so in fact it is a blatant attack on Planned Parenthood itself and therefore against Ohio women. Cleveland.com reports that The budget bill is on a fast track, with majority-party GOP lawmakers expected to pass the legislation before Memorial Day.

o Arguing that it is morally wrong to take the tax dollars of millions of pro-life Americans and use them to fund organizations that provide and promote abortions, Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind, introduced a bill (HR 217) in the U.S. House of Representatives to strip Planned Parenthood of federal funding, despite the many other services Planned Parenthood provides to both men and women, including contraception and STD testing

o Legalizing the Murder of Abortion Doctors
South Dakota flirted with a law to make the murder of an abortion doctor legal as self-defense
When South Dakota was forced to drop the idea of murdering abortion doctors, Nebraska and Iowa picked up the idea
See also HB 3308 Life Defense Act of 2012 above, which has implications in this regard.

o Abstinence Education

A total of 37 states mandate abstinence education while contraception falls increasingly under attack by Republican legislatures.
According to the Guttmacher Report, Mississippi, which had long mandated abstinence education, adopted provisions that make it more difficult for a school district to include other subjects, such as contraception, in order to offer a more comprehensive curriculum. A district will now need to get specific permission to do so from the state department of education.
According to the Guttmacher Report, A new requirement enacted in North Dakota mandates that the health education provided in the state include information on the benefits of abstinence until and within marriage.
Utah, unsurprisingly, has opted for abstinence-only sex ed, which really is kind of the antithesis of sex-ed, isnt it? But that is precisely what the state legislature has done  it has voted that the birds and the bees are X-rated and have no role in schools. If HB 363, sponsored by Rep. Bill Wright, is signed into law, schools wont be able to teach children about contraception. It is unknown if Gov. Gary Herbert will sign the bill.
The Taliban has taken over Tennessee. From ThinkProgress: Senate passed SB 3310 (HB 3621), a bill to update the states abstinence-based sex education curriculum to define holding hands and kissing as gateway sexual activities. Just one senator voted against the legislation; 28 voted in favor. This is Tennessees answer to increased Teenage pregnancy: not promotion of contraception; just dont hold hands. Welcome to Afghanistan, Tennessee. The law takes effect July 1, 2012, otherwise and henceforth and forever known as Talibanesseee Day.

o Personhood Laws and Fetal Rights and Mandatory Ultrasounds

In 2011 the trend in anti-abortion legislation was passage of laws that would give fertilized eggs the rights of personhood  in other words, fertilized eggs would have the same rights as you or me  a blatant ploy to attack womens reproductive rights. Florida, Montana and Ohio will have personhood on the ballot in 2012 and according to CNN efforts in at least five other states are in the planning stages. Mississippi has just rejected one such extremist measure and Colorado and South Dakota have also rejected them. Robin Marty at RH Reality Check examines 20-week bans and points to the flaw at the heart of this type of legislation. In 2012, mandatory ultrasounds have become the rage. However, Republican legislators seem to be realizing that voters arent exactly jumping on the bandwagon.
In Iowa a pregnant woman was arrested for falling down a flight of stairs. Yes, for falling down a flight of stairs. You see, following a fight on the phone with her husband, Christine Taylor fell down a flight of. Like any responsible pregnant woman would, she went to the hospital to check on the fetus  and was arrested thanks to one of the many state laws that grant fetuses rights separate from the mother. Iowa has a feticide law that pertains to the second trimester and beyond, and since Taylor confessed that she had contemplated abortion but had chosen to have the baby, the nurse and doctor at the hospital decided to phone the police and accuse her of trying to terminate her pregnancy illegally. She was fortunate not to be charged with a crime  for falling down the stairs.
Nebraska banned abortions after 20 weeks on the unscientific grounds that fetuses feel pain at that gestational age. Shortly thereafter, Danielle Deaver discovered at 22 weeks she had a pregnancy that could not result in a living baby. Yet Nebraska law denied her an abortion. Nebraska is not alone, and Deaver will not be alone. Legislators in 12 other states  Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, New Mexico and Oregon  are considering similar laws. But banning abortion could not save Deavers fetus: With undeveloped lungs, the baby likely would never survive outside the womb, and because all the amniotic fluid had drained, the tiny growing fetus slowly would be crushed by the uterus walls. On Dec. 8, Deaver delivered 1-pound, 10-ounce Elizabeth, who, as doctors had predicted, lived for only 15 minutes outside the womb.
Idaho is the latest state, inspired by Nebraskas example, to put such a law on the books. Senate Bill 1165 bans abortion after 20 weeks but leaves no loophole even for cases of rape. Their justification? The bills House sponsor, state Rep. Brent Crane, R-Nampa, told legislators that the hand of the Almighty was at work. His ways are higher than our ways, Crane said. He has the ability to take difficult, tragic, horrific circumstances and then turn them into wonderful examples. And Rep. Shannon McMillan, R-Silverton says, Is not the child of that rape or incest also a victim? asked It didnt ask to be here. It was here under violent circumstances perhaps, but that was through no fault of its own.[...]
On February 11, 2011, the North Dakota House of Representatives passed House Bill 1450; a bill which seeking to define a fertilized egg as a human being. As Planned Parenthood reports, HB 1450 is backed by a national activist group, Personhood USA, working to make North Dakota the epicenter of a heated national debate.
The Oklahoma House of Representatives voted 94 to 2 to a ban on abortions later than 20 weeks of gestation similar to Nebraskas in what it called the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act. Bill 1888 was signed into law in April 2011 by Republican governor Mary Fallin, who signed every anti-abortion bill that came to her desk in 2011. Oklahoma became the third state to restrict abortions on the basis of fetal pain (joining Kansas and Nebraska) reported the Oklahoman at the time.
A personhood bill in Louisiana sponsored by Republican State Rep. John LaBruzzo that would have banned all abortions in the state was defeated when a House vote sent it to the House Appropriations Committee, which shelved the measure. This is not the end, however, as this fall a referendum on a personhood amendment.
Ohio has joined the personhood amendment sweepstakes. Personhood Ohio is gathering signatures to add an abortion ban to the states constitution in 2012, defining as a person even fertilization of an egg. Even a fertilized egg apparently as inalienable rights. The measure would not only ban abortion, but contraception. Personhood Ohio hasnt announced any plans to see to the caring of all the resultant births.
In Virginia, State Del. C Todd Gilbert (R-Woodstock) described abortion as nothing more than a lifestyle convenience for women during a debate in support of a bill (SB 484) that would require women to receive trans-vaginal ultrasounds before obtaining an abortion. The patient will be shown not only an image of the fetus but the audio of its heartbeat. The Virginia House of Delegates passed the bill, making Virginia the seventh state to require such ultrasounds. Texas and Iowa are also considering such measures. A recent development is the sudden oppositionby Governor Bob McDonnell to the trans-vaginal ultrasound provision. The bill now mandates external ultrasound. The bill will now go back to the Senate.
In Arizona, Republican social conservatism has reached new heights in the punish women for even thinking about it frenzy. This bill almost requires its own category. State Rep. Terri Proud (R-Tucson), in an email to Arizona legislators, said that wants women to be forced to watch an abortion before having one. Personally Id like to make a law that mandates a woman watch an abortion being performed prior to having a surgical procedure. If its not a life it shouldnt matter, if it doesnt harm a woman then she shouldnt care, and dont we want more transparency and education in the medical profession anyway? We demand it everywhere else. Until the dead child can tell me that she/he does not feel any pain  I have no intentions of clearing the conscience of the living  I will be voting YES.
Of great interest to most liberals are the way in which many anti-abortion bills target victims of rape and incest. This is bad enough, but an Idaho Republican has taken things to a whole new level: Senator Chuck Winder (R-Boise), sponsor of S. 1387, which would force mandatory ultrasounds on women seeking abortion, which passed the Idaho senate, wants to be certain women were really, really raped. From the Spokesman Review: In his closing debate in favor of SB 1387, Sen. Chuck Winder, R-Boise, said, This bill does not require a trans-vaginal exam.  It leaves that up to the patient and the physician to make that determination. He said, Rape and incest was used as a reason to oppose this. I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape. I assume thats part of the counseling that goes on. In other words, we have to assume they are lying.
For Washington D.C. the GOP has the District of Columbia Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, or H.R. 3803, introduced in the House on January 23, 2012, by Congressman Trent Franks (R-Az.) It was introduced in the Senate on February 13 by Senator Mike Lee (R-Utah), as S. 2103. This legislation would ban abortion after 20 weeks on the basis of fetal pain and as National Right to Life News Today admits without appropriate shame, is based on an NRLC model bill that has already been enacted in five statesNebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Alabama. Nothing like exporting Bible Belt religious extremism to the innocent citizens of the nations capital.
In Nebraska, the Republican Party attempted to put limits on personhood after birth and struggled with their pro-life stance on the one hand and hatred of immigrants on the other  LB599 reports the Journal Democrat, will provide prenatal medical assistance for women not covered under Medicaid, including illegal immigrants and women in prison. According to the bills fiscal note, 1,162 unborn babies will be covered annually. Republican Gov. Dave Heineman vetoed the bill. In a letter explaining his veto, Gov. Dave Heineman said he opposed the bill because it gave taxpayers benefits to illegal immigrants. Heineman said it was misguided, misplaced and inappropriate.But the legislature overrode his veto and Mike Flood (R), speaker of the chamber (and abortion opponent) pointed out that the babies will be U.S. citizens and said, If Im going to stand up in the Legislature and protect babies at 20 weeks from abortion, and hordes of senators and citizens are going to stand behind me, and thats pro-life, then Im going to be pro-life when its tough, too.
O Oklahoma: an Oklahoma House committee (Republican, of course) has passed a personhood bill (of course), SB-1433, introduced on January 18, 2012. The bill, co-authored by Rep. Lisa Billy (R-Lindsay) would grant personhood status to human embryos, asserting: The life of each human being begins at conception and that unborn children have protectable interests in life, health, and well-being. On April 19, 2012, Speaker Kris Steeles office announced that the bill will not come up for a vote. According to Sarah Morice-Brubaker at ReligionDispatches, SB 1433 died under the weight of amendments even pro-lifers couldnt live with. According to the speakers office, Oklahoma has already passed at least 30 various pro-life measures in the past eight years alone.
Tennessee Republicans also want to criminalize miscarriages: the state House of Representatives has approved on a vote of 80-18, a bill (House Bill 3517) that would allow homicide and assault charges to be filed in case of the death of an embryo to the first eight weeks of pregnancy. This is problematic. As the Tennessean reports: According to the National Institutes of Health, roughly half of all fertilized eggs die before reaching full term, with the rate highest during the embryonic stage. As a result, it will be difficult for prosecutors to prove that an embryo miscarried because of someone elses action and not from natural causes, predicted Rep. Jeanne Richardson, D-Memphis. In other words, if a woman miscarried or even had a period, she could be prosecuted.
In Mississippi, a ballot initiative, Measure 26 (The Personhood Amendment), would have, if passed (it fortunately did not) defined zygotes, embryoseven a fertilized eggas a person. Women would have been unable to have an abortion even in the case of rape or incest  even if her life is in danger, and IUDs, birth control pills and other forms of contraception would have become illegal. Update: Mississippi tried it again: House Concurrent Resolution 61 aka The Right to Life Amendment of 2012, (HC 61) would provide that the right to life is the paramount and most fundamental right of a person; to provide that the world person applies to all human beings from conception to natural death. TPM reports that the bill was co-authored by three Republicans and one Democrat. Fortunately, this bill died in committee on March 6, 2012; for the time being, womens reproductive rights will enjoy a reprieve in Mississippi.
In California, conservatives are peddling the California Human Rights Amendment. It is okay to condemn people after theyre born but you must let them be born first. This latest personhood gimmick claims the inherent human rights, dignity and worth of all human beings from the beginning of their biological development as human beings but its real goal is to make abortion illegal  even in cases of rape or incest (regardless of the means by which they were procreated), or fetal anomaly. In other words, taking away womens reproductive rights is a promotion of human rights.
In the U.S. House of Representatives, the Sanctity of Human Life Act (HR 212) proposed by Rep. Paul Brouns (R-Ga.) includes reports Mother Jones, language that directly parallels that of the Mississippi personhood amendment. According to HR 212, the life of each human being begins with fertilization, cloning, or its functional equivalentat which time every human being shall have all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood.
In Florida, Personhood Florida, with support from Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council (FRC), is moving forward with a petition to put a personhood amendment on the 2014 general election ballot.
In Oklahoma, eggs are about to become people. The bill (HJR- 1067) introduced on January 12, 2012, bears a resemblance to the recently rejected Mississippi law (see Measure 26 above, this category). Republican Rep. Mike Reynolds, the author of the bill, says it wont apply to miscarriages or to cases where the mothers life is threatened, but no exceptions are made for rape or incest (though he claims there are), and it would ban birth control and in vitro that kills a person. If approved by the legislature, the bill will appear on the ballot in November. The legislature convenes on February 6. Oklahoma requires only a simple majority in both House and Senate. Update: The Oklahoma Supreme Court has said Oh no you dont by ruling that the proposed amendment violates a 1992 U.S. Supreme Court decision and is clearly unconstitutional.
In Virginia, a bill to establish Personhood (HB-1) was introduced on January 18, 2012 stating that The life of each human being begins at conception. Introduced by Robert Marshall (R-Prince William), a Republican member of the Virginia House of Delegates, HB-1 is also based on Mississippis failed Measure 26. The bill passed out of committee on February 10 and went to the House for a vote on February 14, 2012 passing on a vote of 66 to 32.
In Wisconsin, AJR-77, which would legally define personhood from the moment of fertilization and outlaw all abortion in Wisconsin, was introduced on November 16, 2011. Its chief sponsor is Republican Andre Jacque. A Planned Parenthood press release dated January 26 states: AJR 77 a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw abortion, IVF services, stem cell research, and birth control which was so extreme it failed to pass in the most conservative state in the nation- Mississippi. 
Kansas has also gotten into the Personhood Act by way of HCR5029, which states that, the state of Kansas shall hereby guarantee the inalienable rights, equal protection and due process of law of every human being from the beginning of the biological development of that human being, including fertilization. The bill was introduced by 25 state House members. Including one Democrat. The bill requires a two-third majority vote in both House and Senate to appear on the ballot in August.
In Alabama, State Sen. Phil Williams (R-Madison) pre-filed a personhood bill for the Feb. 2012 legislative back in December of 2011. SB-5, yet another bill taking after Mississippis Measure 26, would define humans as persons from the moment of fertilization and implantation into the womb.
In Pennsylvania, The Womens Right to Know Act House Bill 1077, which was authored by state Rep. Kathy Rapp (R), is being called even more restrictive than Virginias transvaginal ultrasound bill. Raw Story reports: The bill faces a vote in the full Pennsylvania state house in mid-March, when the legislature is back in session. A petition at SignOn.org has collected nearly 15,000 signatures opposing the legislation. In keeping with the Republican practice of trying to slip legislation past the public, no public hearing was held. The bill does offer exceptions for victims of rape and incest.
Utah was all set to jump on board the vaginal ultrasound bandwagon but as the Spokesman reports, Idaho Senate Assistant Majority Leader Chuck Winder, R-Meridian, said the original version of his [mandatory ultrasound] bill specifically mentioned that procedure, but he removed it. It didnt require it, but in my opinion it was confusing  so we took it out, Winder said. However, the Idaho Statesman reports: But Sara Kiesler, a spokeswoman for Planned Parenthood Votes Northwest, said the measure would still require transvaginal exams, though the explicit reference to the procedure has been excised. The revised draft will leave it up to the patient and doctor whether to employ an abdominal or transvaginal sonogram to the patient and her provider. Says Winder: Thatll be up to the physician and the patient as to what they want to do, admitting the invasive procedure went too far.
In Alabama, Republican Clay Scofield (R-Huntsville) has introduced a mandatory ultrasound proposal for women seeking abortions. According to the Montgomery Advertiser: Physicians who failed to administer the ultrasound prior to an abortion or an attempted abortion could face up to 10 years in prison and a $15,000 fine. In addition, the law would allow the woman, the father of the fetus or the grandparents to sue the physician for actual and punitive damages. Scofield stated that the whole point of the procedure was to make the woman uncomfortable, essentially, to punish her for her decision to have an abortion. The unsurprising backlash over his words has caused him, publically, at least, to rethink his position: I want to offer legislation that will simultaneously protect life and show respect and compassion towards women. Given his lie that the ultrasound would not be a vaginal probe, his words should be taken with a grain of salt. The Alabama bill allows no exceptions in case of rape or incest.
Alaska has joined the state-sponsored rape lollapalooza with its SB 191, which as Planned Parenthood points out, mandates that the physician perform an ultrasound regardless of its medical necessity prior to performing an abortioneven though the Alaska Supreme Court has stated repeatedly that Alaska laws may not place unnecessary burdens on a womans right to an abortion.

o War on Birth Control/Contraception

Republicans have tried to define contraception not as a health but as a religious issue, claiming that the availability of contraception is a violation of their religious beliefs.
The Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives is attacking the Department of Health and Human Services new guidelines that require insurance companies to cover contraceptive services free of charge. Committee Chairman Rep. Joe Pitts (R-PA) claims the new rules do not protect religious groups who object to contraception. He claims the government is taking, coercive actions to force people to abandon their religious principles. As part of the Republican War on Women, Rep. Jeff Fortenberry (R-NE) has introduced a bill, the Respect for Rights of Conscience Act of 2011, which would allow providers to throw women under the bus on religious grounds.
In Utah, 45 Republicans voted for state Rep. Bill Wrights (R) HB363 which, as Raw Story reports, would effectively ban comprehensive education about human sexuality, forcing schools to teach abstinence or nothing at all. Eleven Republicans and 17 Democrats opposed the bill, in defense of which Wright stated, Weve been culturally watered down to think we have to teach about sex, about having sex and how to get away with it, which is intellectually dishonest. Why dont we just be honest with them upfront that sex outside marriage is devastating?
From Arizona comes the Tell Your Boss Why Youre on he Pill Bill. House Bill 2625 authored by Majority Whip Debbie Lesko, R-Glendale, reports StatePress.com, would permit employers to ask their employees for proof of medical prescription if they seek contraceptives for non-reproductive purposes, such as hormone control or acne treatment. Lesko says this is about freedom of religion  the GOPs so-called rights of conscience  but its really about Lesko legislating not only his misogyny but his religious views, mandating that the rest of us set aside our own beliefs and abide by his instead.
In late February, seven states (Nebraska, Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas) went to court over the Obama administrations birth control mandate and asked a federal judge to block it, telling the U.S. District Court of Nebraska that the rule violates the First Amendment Rights of those who, for religious reasons, object to the use of contraceptives. Nebraska attorney general Jon Bruning (of course hes a Republican!) said, We will not stand idly by while out constitutionally guaranteed liberties are discarded by an administration that has sworn to uphold them. Apparently, their right to oppose contraceptive use trumps our right to use it  what about our First Amendment rights? Not to be outdone, Alabama joined up with this unholy cause, Attorney General Luther Strange filed a motion March 22, 2012 to join that federal lawsuit.

o Taxing Abortions

The newest rage, direct from 13th Century Kansas, seeks to squeeze profit from abortions by taxing them.
In Kansas, H.B. 2598 would levy a sales tax of 6.5% on all abortion procedures, reports RawStory: Why not slap a $100, $200, $300 tax on an abortion? Troy Newman, president of Operation Rescue, the largest anti-abortion advocacy group in Kansas, asked Raw Story on Friday. Im completely against most forms of taxation, but abortion is such an abhorrent procedure, I would like to see it wiped out with a $2,000 or $3,000 tax on every abortion that happens in Kansas. HB 2598, punitive in nature like all GOP anti-choice legislation, would give doctors immunity from malpractice, do away with tax credits, and like Indianas law, force doctors to lie to patients about non-existent risks of breast cancer. It would also force women to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus before undergoing an abortion. RawStory underscores the financial burdeon created by this monstrous (68 page) bill, saying that it could also make late term abortions to save the life of a mother, which can run up to $20,000, wholly cost prohibitive, even for middle class women. This would effectively make this bill a kill the mother bill, a theme that runs through much of the GOPs anti-choice legislation. Rick Perry crony Governor Brownback plans to sign the bill into law if passed.

The War on Human Fetuses in Food

Yes, you read that correctly. And no, there are no human fetuses in food. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt have laws against them being there  if youre a Republican, that is. The Associated Press reports that Oklahoma State Senator Ralph Shortey, infamous for authoring failed bills, has proposed a bill that would ban the use of aborted human fetuses in food, despite conceding that hes unaware of any company using such a practice, and even Republican Sen. Brian Crain, a self-professed pro-lifer and the chairman of the Senate Human Services Committee says, Id hate to think were going to spend our time coming up with possibilities of things we need to stop. The FDA, of course, says it is not aware of this particular concern. Ridiculous as it sounds, the bill does also outlaw stem cell research.

The War on the Girl Scouts

This war is unsurprising when you consider its McCarthyian antecedents. The Republican-Christian authoritarian mindset does not like empowering women and it is absolutely horrified by the idea that impressionable young girls should get uppity notions which can only turn them into anti-religion, baby-killing feminazis. A 1955 article in The Atlantic, speaking of the effect these 1954 attacks had on the organization puts it this way: Have the Girl Scouts themselves changed? Have they altered their basic ideas about international friendship and the United Nations?

Nothing of the sort. The Girl Scouts of America was and is a fine organization which still encourages idealism, good citizenship, and international friendship. What happened in 1954 was that the Girl Scouts in the forty-second year of their existence decided it was no longer safe to say so too plainly.
From Indiana: While not taking the form of actual legislation, the actions of Rep. Bob Morris (R-Fort Wayne), who became opposed to the idea of honoring the Girl Scouts because of something he read on the Internet, were hateful. He refused to honor the Girl Scouts because, he as he told fellow lawmakers, they  promote homosexual lifestyles and study feminists, lesbians, or Communists as role models while ignoring those with a religious background. And on the basis of some very poor research he warned against extend[ing] legitimacy to a radicalized organization. Raw Story reports [5.1.12] that An Indiana lawmaker has only received a single donation in the months since he accused the Girl Scouts of becoming a radicalized organization that promotes the homosexual lifestyle.
From Alaska: Also taking up this cry was Rep. Wess Keller of Wasilla, who seems to prove the old Biblical cry, Can anything good come out of Wasilla? Keller, like Morris, was predisposed to dislike the Girl Scouts and for the same reasons. It was not difficult for him to also find affirmation of his prejudices so he pulled a Morris and blocked what should have been a routine resolution in the state legislature to honor the Girl Scouts 100th anniversary, saying in an admission of ignorance, Im sure you are aware of the information thats floating around the internet, and Id like to give you the opportunity to respond to your connection, the Girl Scout connection, with Planned Parenthood and the activist role in that  is there a connection? Is there not? Frankly, I havent looked into it but I see its out there.

The War on Divorce

o From Wisconsin comes Rep. Don Pridemore is co-sponsor of Senator Glenn Grothmans (R-West Bend) bill (SB 507) that would list nonmarital parenthood as a cause of abuse. The bill states In promoting those campaigns and materials, the [Child Abuse and Neglect Prevention Board] shall emphasize nonmarital parenthood as a contributing factor to child abuse and neglect. The bill is bad enough  TodaysTMJ4 tells us that Senator Grothman claims theres an epidemic of single parenthood, and hes pointing a finger at women for it. But whats worse is Pridemores defense of it; he says that women in abusive relationships  the reason so many of them are single parents in the first place  ought to just take a beating and stay married: If they can refind those reasons and get back to why they got married in the first place it might help,


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Shame


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

The Five Craziest Arguments At Yesterdays Climate
Hearing (Continued)

*3. Coal Cant Be Clean, So Lets Burn More*
Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL) is skeptical that coal plants can be built that do not spew
unregulated carbon pollution. He questioned both witnesses about the upcoming Clean
Air Act regulations to address emissions from new power plants, which will likely
require carbon capture and storage (CCS) systems. Shimkus, despite taking over
$250,000 from the mining industry, doubts that carbon capture and sequestration
technology is economically or technologically feasible, even though nearly a century of
ads from the coal industry have promised clean coal.
While there are many reasons to be skeptical about clean coal, one thing is certain:
the coal power industry has not made coal clean on its own. If its possible to do so,
federal rules might be the only way to do it. Regulations allowed coal plants to find a
way to install scrubbers that reined in acidic gases like sulfur dioxide. Technology to
scrub mercury from coal plant emissions has been implemented only as states (and,
slowly, the federal government) start to implement mercury air toxics rules.

*4. They Received A Red Badge of Courage*
Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) spent most of his question time wondering why the 11 other
agency heads werent in the room, saying were being stonewalled, which means the
American peoples being stonewalled. After awarding Administrator McCarthy and
Secretary Moniz a red badge of courage for attending, he read aloud, one after
another, each question in a questionnaire that he wanted them to answer. After
Barton had talked for most of his five minutes, Secretary Moniz started to answer but
Bartons time had expired.
Rep. Waxman noted dryly that its exceptional to have two cabinet-level officials
appear before a subcommittee.
Barton also must have missed that another House Energy and Commerce
subcommittee will hear from representatives from the NASA and NOAA on Thursday.

*5. Is Anything You Are Doing Any Good?*
Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-KS) wanted to know if the purpose of the upcoming rules was to
impact the 26 indicators of climate change on EPAs website. McCarthy said the
Clean Air Act regulations were part of an overall strategy that is positioning the U.S.
for leadership and international discussion because climate change requires a global
effort.
Pompeo then said he wanted to know how many heat-related deaths have been
eliminated as a result of the improved fuel economy standards unveiled in 2010.
McCarthy responded with reason, saying no one can make those direct connections.
The climate is complex and the amount of work yet to do to decrease emissions is
immense. The CAFE standards were a first step. Rep. Pompeo then tried to conclude
that making cars more efficient and burning less gasoline will not do anything for
climate change, asking Is anything you are doing doing any good?
The economic benefits of EPA regulations massively outweigh the economic costs.
The agency is tasked with protecting the nations air and water, and though it has
made serious progress in doing so, there is much more to do, particularly on climate.
The main obstacles are intransigence from Congress and industry.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

They have no shame


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

/


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. 

Pope Francis warning that the Catholic Church needs to reassess its priorities, in his first extensive interview since becoming the pope. Copyright Associated Press


Pope Francis has warned that the Catholic Church's moral structure might "fall like a house of cards" if it doesn't balance its divisive rules about abortion, gays and contraception with the greater need to make it a merciful, more welcoming place for all.
Six months into his papacy, Francis set out his vision for the church and his priorities as pope in a lengthy and remarkably blunt interview with La Civilta Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit magazine. It was published simultaneously Thursday in Jesuit journals in 16 countries, including America magazine in the U.S.
In the 12,000-word article, Francis expands on his ground-breaking comments over the summer about gays and acknowledges some of his own faults. He sheds light on his favorite composers, artists, authors and films (Mozart, Caravaggio, Dostoevsky and Fellini's "La Strada") and says he prays even while at the dentist's office.
But his vision of what the church should be stands out, primarily because it contrasts so sharply with many of the priorities of his immediate predecessors, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. They were both intellectuals for whom doctrine was paramount, an orientation that guided the selection of a generation of bishops and cardinals around the globe.
Francis said the dogmatic and the moral teachings of the church were not all equivalent.
"The church's pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently," Francis said. "We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."
Rather, he said, the Catholic Church must be like a "field hospital after battle," healing the wounds of its faithful and going out to find those who have been hurt, excluded or have fallen away.
"It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars!" Francis said. "You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else."
"The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules," he lamented. "The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all."
The admonition is likely to have sharp reverberations in the United States, where some bishops have already publicly voiced dismay that Francis hasn't hammered home church teaching on abortion, contraception and homosexuality  areas of the culture wars where U.S. bishops often put themselves on the front lines. U.S. bishops were also behind Benedict's crackdown on American nuns, who were accused of letting doctrine take a backseat to their social justice work caring for the poor  precisely the priority that Francis is endorsing.
Just last week, Bishop Thomas Tobin of Providence, Rhode Island, said in an interview with his diocesan newspaper that he was "a little bit disappointed" that Francis hadn't addressed abortion since being elected.
Francis acknowledged that he had been "reprimanded" for not speaking out on such issues. But he said he didn't need to.
"We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible," he said. "The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time."
Francis, the first Jesuit to become pope, was interviewed by Civilta Cattolica's editor, the Rev. Antonio Spadaro, over three days in August at the Vatican hotel where Francis chose to live rather than the papal apartments. The Vatican vets all content of the journal, and the pope approved the Italian version of the article.
Nothing Francis said indicates any change in church teaching. But he has set a different tone and signaled new priorities compared to Benedict and John Paul  priorities that have already been visible in his simple style, his outreach to the most marginalized and his insistence that priests be pastors, not bureaucrats.
"Mercy has been a hallmark of his papacy from its earliest days," said the Rev. James Martin, editor at large for America magazine. "The America interview shows a gentle pastor who looks upon people as individuals, not categories."
It also shows a very human Francis: He seemingly had no qualms about admitting that his tenure as superior of Argentina's Jesuit order in the 1970s  starting at the "crazy" age of 36  was difficult because of his "authoritarian" temperament.
"I have never been a right-winger. It was my authoritarian way of making decisions that created problems," he said.
Two months ago, Francis caused a sensation during a news conference when he was asked about gay priests. "Who am I to judge?" about the sexual orientation of priests, as long as they are searching for God and have good will, he responded.
Francis noted in the latest interview that he had merely repeated church teaching during that press conference (though he again neglected to repeat church teaching that says while homosexuals should be treated with dignity and respect, homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered.")
But he continued: "A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: 'Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?'
"We must always consider the person. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing."
The key, he said, is for the church to welcome, not exclude and show mercy, not condemnation.
"This church with which we should be thinking is the home of all, not a small chapel that can hold only a small group of selected people. We must not reduce the bosom of the universal church to a nest protecting our mediocrity," he said.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Brief History of Birth Control

From early contraception to the birth of the Pill

1550 B.C.
An Egyptian manuscript called the Ebers Papyrus directs women on how to mix dates, acacia and honey into a paste, smear it over wool and use it as a pessary to prevent conception

1700s
Casanova's memoirs detail his experiments in birth control, from sheep-bladder condoms to the use of half a lemon as a makeshift cervical cap

1839
Charles Goodyear invents the technology to vulcanize rubber and puts it to use manufacturing rubber condoms, intrauterine devices, douching syringes and "womb veils"

1873
Congress passes an antiobscenity law that deems birth control info obscene and outlaws its dissemination. At the time, the U.S. is the only Western nation to criminalize contraception

1880s
A large cervical cap is developed--an early version of the diaphragm

1916
Margaret Sanger opens America's first family-planning clinic, in Brooklyn. It is shut down within 10 days

1921
Sanger founds the American Birth Control League, which later becomes the Planned Parenthood Federation of America

1930
Anglican bishops approve limited use of birth control; Pope Pius XI affirms church teaching against contraception

1938
A judge lifts the federal obscenity ban on birth control, but contraception remains illegal in most states

1951
Prompted by Sanger, Gregory Pincus begins research on the use of hormones in contraception. In Mexico City, chemist Carl Djerassi creates a progesterone pill

1954
John Rock, below, in collaboration with Pincus, bottom, conducts the first human Pill trial on 50 women in Massachusetts

1960
In May, the FDA announces its approval of Enovid as a birth control pill (almost half a million American women are already taking it for "therapeutic purposes")

1965
In Griswold v. Connecticut, the Supreme Court strikes down state laws prohibiting contraception for married couples; 6.5 million American women are on the Pill

1970
Concerns about the Pill's safety and side effects prompt Senate hearings

1980s
Lower-dose Pills dominate the market; 10.5 million American women are taking the Pill

2010
A new study of 46,000 women conducted over 40 years found that women on the Pill live longer and are less likely to die prematurely of all causes, including cancer and heart disease. Some 100 million women around the world use the Pill

Read more: http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983970,00.html#ixzz2fPKCdRP0


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

,


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hey Purl, You forgot your flowers.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What next?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

History of abortion

Prehistory to 5th century
Earliest evidence
The written evidence of abortion reflects the interests of class and caste. Fines are listed in the Code of Hammurabi, ca. 1760 BCE, for the crime of causing a miscarriage through assault, with the amount varying according to the social rank of the woman.[3][4] The Vedic and smrti laws of India reflect a concern with preserving the male seed of the three upper castes; and the religious courts imposed various penances for the woman or excommunication for a priest who provided an abortion.[5] The only evidence of the death penalty being mandated for abortion in the ancient laws is found in Assyrian Law, in the Code of Assura, c. 1075 BCE;[6] and this is only imposed on a woman who procures an abortion against her husband's wishes. The first recorded evidence of induced abortion is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BCE.[7]

Many of the methods employed in early and primitive cultures were non-surgical. Physical activities like strenuous labor, climbing, paddling, weightlifting, or diving were a common technique. Others included the use of irritant leaves, fasting, bloodletting, pouring hot water onto the abdomen, and lying on a heated coconut shell.[8] In primitive cultures, techniques developed through observation, adaptation of obstetrical methods, and transculturation.[9] Archaeological discoveries indicate early surgical attempts at the extraction of a fetus; however, such methods are not believed to have been common, given the infrequency with which they are mentioned in ancient medical texts.[10]

Ancient China
A Chinese record documents the number of royal concubines who had abortions in China between the years 515 and 500 BCE.[11] According to Chinese folklore, the legendary Emperor Shennong prescribed the use of mercury to induce abortions nearly 5000 years ago.[12]

Classical Greece
Much of what is known about the methods and practice of abortion in Greek and Roman history comes from early classical texts. Abortion, as a gynecological procedure, was primarily the province of women who were either midwives or well-informed laypeople. In his Theaetetus, Plato mentions a midwife's ability to induce abortion in the early stages of pregnancy.[13][14] It is thought unlikely that abortion was punished in classical Greece.[15] However, a fragment attributed to the poet Lysias "suggests that abortion was a crime in Athens against the husband, if his wife was pregnant when he died, since his unborn child could have claimed the estate."[16]

The Stoics believed the fetus to be plantlike in nature, and not an animal until the moment of birth, when it finally breathed air. They therefore found abortion morally acceptable.[16][17] The Greek playwright Aristophanes noted the abortifacient property of pennyroyal in 421 BC, through a humorous reference in his comedy, Peace.[18]

Cyrenian coin with an image of silphium.
The ancient Greeks relied upon the herb silphium as an abortifacient and contraceptive. The plant, as the chief export of Cyrene, was driven to extinction, but it is suggested that it might have possessed the same abortive properties as some of its closest extant relatives in the Apiaceae family. Silphium was so central to the Cyrenian economy that most of its coins were embossed with an image of the plant.[19] Pliny the Elder cited the refined oil of common rue as a potent abortifacient. Serenus Sammonicus wrote of a concoction which consisted of rue, egg, and dill. Soranus, Dioscorides, Oribasius also detailed this application of the plant. Modern scientific studies have confirmed that rue indeed contains three abortive compounds.[20] Birthwort, an herb used to ease childbirth, was also used to induce abortion. Galen included it in a potion formula in de Antidotis, while Dioscorides said it could be administered by mouth, or in the form of a vaginal pessary also containing pepper and myrrh.[21]

Aristotle
Aristotle wrote that, "[T]he line between lawful and unlawful abortion will be marked by the fact of having sensation and being alive."[22]

In Aristotle's view, abortion, if performed early, was not the killing of something human,[23][24] and Aristotle would permit abortion if the birth rate was too high, but only at a stage before life and sense had begun in the embryo.[25] Aristotle considered the embryo to gain a human soul at 40 days if male and 90 days if female; before that, it had vegetable and animal souls.

Hippocratic Oath
The Oath is part of the Hippocratic Corpus. Often ascribed to Hippocrates, the Greek physician, the Corpus is believed to be the collective work of Hippocratic practitioners. The Oath forbids the use of pessaries to induce abortion. Modern scholarship suggests that pessaries were banned because they were reported to cause vaginal ulcers.[26] This specific prohibition has been interpreted by some medical scholars as prohibiting abortion in a broader sense than by pessary.[27] One such interpretation is by Scribonius Largus, a Roman medical writer: "Hippocrates, who founded our profession, laid the foundation for our discipline by an oath in which it was proscribed not to give a pregnant woman a kind of medicine that expels the embryo or fetus."[28] Other medical scholars disagree, believing that Hippocrates sought to discourage physicians from trying dangerous methods to abort a fetus.[29]

Regardless of the Oath's interpretation, Hippocrates writes of advising a prostitute who became pregnant to jump up and down, touching her buttocks with her heels at each leap, so as to induce miscarriage.[30] Other writings attributed to him describe instruments fashioned to dilate the cervix and curette inside of the uterus.[31]

Soranus' Gynecology
Soranus, a 2nd-century Greek physician, recommended abortion in cases involving health complications as well as emotional immaturity, and provided detailed suggestions in his work Gynecology. Diuretics, emmenagogues, enemas, fasting, and bloodletting were prescribed as safe abortion methods, although Soranus advised against the use of sharp instruments to induce miscarriage, due to the risk of organ perforation. He also advised women wishing to abort their pregnancies to engage in energetic walking, carrying heavy objects, riding animals, and jumping so that the woman's heels were to touch her buttocks with each jump, which he described as the "Lacedaemonian Leap."[30][32]

Soranus offered a number of recipes for herbal bathes, rubs, and pessaries.[30] In De Materia Medica Libri Quinque, the Greek pharmacologist Dioscorides listed the ingredients of a draught called "abortion wine" hellebore, squirting cucumber, and scammony but failed to provide the precise manner in which it was to be prepared.[27] Hellebore, in particular, is known to be abortifacient.[33]

Classical Rome
No evidences exists for the illegality of abortion under the Roman republic. Attitudes changed with the spread of Christianity and around 211 CE emperors Septimius Severus and Caracalla banned abortion as infringing on parental rights; temporary exile was the punishment.[16]

This new attitude is reflected in the third century legal compilation Pauli sententiae (attributed to Julius Paulus Prudentissimus):

[T]hose who administer a beverage for the purpose of producing abortion, or of causing affection, although they may not do so with malicious intent, still, because the act offers a bad example, shall, if of humble rank, be sent to the mines; or, if higher in degree, shall be relegated to an island, with the loss of a portion of their property. If a man or a woman should lose his or her life through such an act, the guilty party shall undergo the extreme penalty."[citation needed]

And also Ulpian, as it appears in the Digest regarding to the institution of curator ventris (protector of the womb): "An unborn child is considered being born, as far as it concerns his profits." Despite this, abortion continued to be practiced "with little or no sense of shame."[34]

Suzanne Dixon, a senior lecturer in the Department of Classics and Ancient History at the University of Queensland, writes that abortion was a threat to traditional power structures in the classical Roman world. A husband had power over his wife, her body, and their children. She explains that writings from the classical world portray abortion as expressions of an ideological agenda where men maintain or reestablish patterns of power between the sexes, not as information about historical realities.[35]:27 Punishment for abortion in the Roman Republic was inflicted as a violation of the father's right to dispose of his offspring.[15]:3 Because of the influence of Stoicism, which did not view the fetus as a person, the Romans did not punish abortion as homicide.[36]

Early Christian texts
See also: Christianity and abortion and History of early Christian thought on abortion
Tertullian, a 2nd- and 3rd-century Christian theologian, also described surgical implements which were used in a procedure similar to the modern dilation and evacuation. One tool had a "nicely-adjusted flexible frame" used for dilation, an "annular blade" used to curette, and a "blunted or covered hook" used for extraction. The other was a "copper needle or spike." He attributed ownership of such items to Hippocrates, Asclepiades, Erasistratus, Herophilus, and Soranus.[37]

Tertullian's description is prefaced as being used in cases in which abnormal positioning of the fetus in the womb would endanger the life of the pregnant women. Saint Augustine, in Enchiridion, makes passing mention of surgical procedures being performed to remove fetuses which have expired in utero.[38] Aulus Cornelius Celsus, a 1st-century Roman encyclopedist, offers an extremely detailed account of a procedure to extract an already dead fetus in his only surviving work, De Medicina.[39]

In Book 9 of Refutation of all Heresies, Hippolytus of Rome, another Christian theologian of the 3rd century, wrote of women tightly binding themselves around the middle so as to "expel what was being conceived."[40]

In contrast to their pagan environment, Christians generally shunned abortion, drawing upon early Christian writings such as the Didache (c. 150 A.D.), which says: "do not murder a child by abortion or kill a new-born infant."[41] Saint Augustine believed that abortion of a fetus animatus, a fetus with human limbs and shape, was murder. However, his beliefs on earlier-stage abortion were similar to Aristotle's,[42] though he could neither deny nor affirm whether such unformed fetuses would be resurrected as full people at the time of the second coming.[43]

"Now who is there that is not rather disposed to think that unformed abortions perish, like seeds that have never fructified?"[38]
"And therefore the following question may be very carefully inquired into and discussed by learned men, though I do not know whether it is in man's power to resolve it: At what time the infant begins to live in the womb: whether life exists in a latent form before it manifests itself in the motions of the living being. To deny that the young who are cut out limb by limb from the womb, lest if they were left there dead the mother should die too, have never been alive, seems too audacious."[44]
Medical: Practice & methods of abortion
5th century to 18th century

Bas relief at Angkor Wat, c. 1150, depicting a demon performing an abortion.
An 8th-century Sanskrit text instructs women wishing to induce an abortion to sit over a pot of steam or stewed onions.[45]

The technique of massage abortion, involving the application of pressure to the pregnant abdomen, has been practiced in Southeast Asia for centuries. One of the bas reliefs decorating the temple of Angkor Wat in Cambodia, dated c. 1150, depicts a demon performing such an abortion upon a woman who has been sent to the underworld.[7]

Japanese documents show records of induced abortion from as early as the 12th century. It became much more prevalent during the Edo period, especially among the peasant class, who were hit hardest by the recurrent famines and high taxation of the age.[46] Statues of the Boddhisattva Jizo, erected in memory of an abortion, miscarriage, stillbirth, or young childhood death, began appearing at least as early as 1710 at a temple in Yokohama (see religion and abortion).[47]

Physical means of inducing abortion, such as battery, exercise, and tightening the girdle special bands were sometimes worn in pregnancy to support the belly were reported among English women during the early modern period.[48]

Māori, who lived in New Zealand before and at the time of colonisation, terminated pregnancies via miscarriage-inducing drugs, ceremonial methods, and girding of the abdomen with a restrictive belt.[49] Another source claims that the Māori people did not practice abortion, for fear of Makutu, but did attempt abortion through the artificial induction of premature labor.[50]

Natural abortifacients

Art from a 13th-century illuminated manuscript features a herbalist preparing a concotion containing pennyroyal for a woman.
Botanical preparations reputed to be abortifacient were common in classical literature and folk medicine. Such folk remedies, however, varied in effectiveness and were not without the risk of adverse effects. Some of the herbs used at times to terminate pregnancy are poisonous.

A list of plants which cause abortion was provided in De viribus herbarum, an 11th-century herbal written in the form of a poem, the authorship of which is incorrectly attributed to Aemilius Macer. Among them were rue, Italian catnip, savory, sage, soapwort, cyperus, white and black hellebore, and pennyroyal.[27]

King's American Dispensatory of 1898 recommended a mixture of brewer's yeast and pennyroyal tea as "a safe and certain abortive."[51] Pennyroyal has been known to cause complications when used as an abortifacient. In 1978 a pregnant woman from Colorado died after consuming 2 tablespoonfuls of pennyroyal essential oil[52][53] which is known to be toxic.[54] In 1994 a pregnant woman, unaware of an ectopic pregnancy that needed immediate medical care, drank a tea containing pennyroyal extract to induce abortion without medical help. She later died as a result of the untreated ectopic pregnancy, mistaking the symptoms for the abortifacient working.[18]

Tansy has been used to terminate pregnancies since the Middle Ages.[55] It was first documented as an emmenagogue in St. Hildegard of Bingen's De simplicis medicinae.[27]

A variety of juniper, known as savin, was mentioned frequently in European writings.[7] In one case in England, a rector from Essex was said to have procured it for a woman he had impregnated in 1574; in another, a man wishing to remove his girlfriend of like condition recommended to her that black hellebore and savin be boiled together and drunk in milk, or else that chopped madder be boiled in beer. Other substances reputed to have been used by the English include Spanish fly, opium, watercress seed, iron sulphate, and iron chloride. Another mixture, not abortifacient, but rather intended to relieve missed abortion, contained dittany, hyssop, and hot water.[48]

The root of worm fern, called "prostitute root" in the French, was used in France and Germany; it was also recommended by a Greek physician in the 1st century. In German folk medicine, there was also an abortifacient tea, which included marjoram, thyme, parsley, and lavender. Other preparations of unspecified origin included crushed ants, the saliva of camels, and the tail hairs of black-tailed deer dissolved in the fat of bears.[45]

Islamic world
Main article: Islam and abortion
During the medieval period, physicians in the Islamic world documented lists of birth control practices, including the use of abortifacients, commenting on their effectiveness and prevalence.[56]

19th century to present

"Admonition against abortion." Late 19th-century Japanese Ukiyo-e woodblock print.
19th century medicine saw advances in the fields of surgery, anaesthesia, and sanitation, in the same era that doctors with the American Medical Association lobbied for bans on abortion in the United States[57] and the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed the Offences against the Person Act 1861.

Various methods of abortion were documented regionally in the 19th century and early 20th century. A paper published in 1870 on the abortion services to be found in Syracuse, New York, concluded that the method most often practiced there during this time was to flush inside of the uterus with injected water. The article's author, Ely Van de Warkle, claimed this procedure was affordable even to a maid, as a man in town offered it for $10 on an installment plan.[58] Other prices which 19th-century abortion providers are reported to have charged were much more steep. In Great Britain, it could cost from 10 to 50 guineas, or 5% of the yearly income of a lower middle class household.[7]

In France during the latter half of the 19th century, social perceptions of abortion started to change. In the first half of the 19th century, abortion was viewed as the last resort for pregnant but unwed women. But as writers began to write about abortion in terms of family planning for married women, the practice of abortion was reconceptualized as a logical solution to unwanted pregnancies resulting from ineffectual contraceptives.[59] The formulation of abortion as a form of family planning for married women was made "thinkable" because both medical and non-medical practitioners agreed on the relative safety of the procedure.[59]

In the United States and England, the latter half of the 19th century saw abortion become increasingly punished. One writer justified this by claiming that the number of abortions among married women had increased markedly since 1840.[60] In the United States, these laws had a limited effect on middle and upper class women who could, though often with great expense and difficulty, still obtain access to abortion, while poor and young women had access only to the most dangerous and illegal methods.[61]

After a rash of unexplained miscarriages in Sheffield, England, were attributed to lead poisoning caused by the metal pipes which fed the city's water supply, a woman confessed to having used diachylon  a lead-containing plaster  as an abortifacient in 1898.[7] Criminal investigation of an abortionist in Calgary, Alberta in 1894 revealed through chemical analysis that the concoction he had supplied to a man seeking an abortifacient contained Spanish fly.[62]

Women of Jewish descent in Lower East Side, Manhattan are said to have carried the ancient Indian practice of sitting over a pot of steam into the early 20th century.[45] Dr. Evelyn Fisher wrote of how women living in a mining town in Wales during the 1920s used candles intended for Roman Catholic ceremonies to dilate the cervix in an effort to self-induce abortion.[7] Similarly, the use of candles and other objects, such as glass rods, penholders, curling irons, spoons, sticks, knives, and catheters was reported during the 19th century in the United States.[63]

Abortion remained a dangerous procedure into the early 20th century; more dangerous than childbirth until about 1930.[64] Of the estimated 150,000 abortions that occurred annually in the US during the early 20th century, one in six resulted in the woman's death.[65]

Advertisement of abortion services

The text of this clandestine ad reads: "Dr. Caton's Tansy Pills! The most reliable remedy for ladies. Always safe, effectual, and the only guaranteed women's salvation. Price $1. Second advice free. R. F. Caton, Boston, Mass."
Access to abortion continued, despite bans enacted on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean, as the disguised, but nonetheless open, advertisement of abortion services, abortion-inducing devices, and abortifacient medicines in the Victorian era would seem to suggest.[66] Apparent print ads of this nature were found in both the United States,[67] the United Kingdom,[7] and Canada.[68] A British Medical Journal writer who replied to newspaper ads peddling relief to women who were "temporarily indisposed" in 1868 found that over half of them were in fact promoting abortion.[7]

An 1845 ad for "French Periodical Pills" warns against use by women who might be "en ciente [sic]" ("enceinte" is French for "pregnant").
A few alleged examples of surreptitiously-marketed abortifacients include "Farrer's Catholic Pills," "Hardy's Woman's Friend," "Dr. Peter's French Renovating Pills," "Lydia Pinkham's Vegetable Compound,"[69] and "Madame Drunette's Lunar Pills."[7] Patent medicines which claimed to treat "female complaints" often contained such ingredients as pennyroyal, tansy, and savin. Abortifacient products were sold under the promise of "restor[ing] female regularity" and "removing from the system every impurity."[69] In the vernacular of such advertising, "irregularity," "obstruction," "menstrual suppression," and "delayed period" were understood to be euphemistic references to the state of pregnancy. As such, some abortifacients were marketed as menstrual regulatives.[63] "Old Dr. Gordon's Pearls of Health," produced by a drug company in Montreal, "cure[d] all suppressions and irregularities" if "used monthly."[70] However, a few ads explicitly warned against the use of their product by women who were expecting, or listed miscarriage as its inevitable side effect. The copy for "Dr. Peter's French Renovating Pills" advised, "pregnant females should not use them, as they invariably produce a miscarriage," and both "Dr. Monroe's French Periodical Pills" and "Dr. Melveau's Portuguese Female Pills" were "sure to produce a miscarriage."[7] F.E. Karn, a man from Toronto, in 1901 cautioned women who thought themselves pregnant not to use the pills he advertised as "Friar's French Female Regulator" because they would "speedily restore menstrual secretions."[70]

"Dr. Miller's Female Monthly Powders" ad copy reprinted in an 1858 article condemning such advertising.
Such advertising aroused criticisms of quackery and immorality. The safety of many nostrums was suspect and the efficacy of others non-existent.[63] Horace Greeley, in a New York Herald editorial written in 1871, denounced abortion and its promotion as the "infamous and unfortunately common crime so common that it affords a lucrative support to a regular guild of professional murderers, so safe that its perpetrators advertise their calling in the newspapers."[67] Although the paper in which Greeley wrote accepted such advertisements, others, such as the New York Tribune, refused to print them.[67] Elizabeth Blackwell, the first woman to obtain a Doctor of Medicine in the United States, also lamented how such ads led to the contemporary synonymity of "female physician" with "abortionist."[67] The Comstock Law made all abortion-related advertising illegal in the United States (see history of abortion law).

Madame Restell

An advertisement for Madame Restell's services from an 1840 edition of the New York Herald.
A well-known example of a Victorian-era abortionist was Madame Restell, or Ann Lohman, who over a forty-year period illicitly provided both surgical abortion and abortifacient pills in the northern United States. She began her business in New York during the 1830s, and, by the 1840s, had expanded to include franchises in Boston and Philadelphia.

"The Female Abortionist." Madame Restell is portrayed as a villainess in an 1847 copy of the National Police Gazette.
It is estimated that by 1870 her annual expenditure on advertising alone was $60,000.[7] One ad for Restell's medical services, printed in the New York Sun, promised that she could offer the "strictest confidence on complaints incidental to the female frame" and that her "experience and knowledge in the treatment of cases of female irregularity, [was] such as to require but a few days to effect a perfect cure."[71] Another, addressed to married women, asked the question, "Is it desirable, then, for parents to increase their families, regardless of consequences to themselves, or the well-being of their offspring, when a simple, easy, healthy, and certain remedy is within our control?"[72] Advertisements for the "Female Monthly Regulating Pills" she also sold vowed to resolve "all cases of suppression, irregularity, or stoppage of the menses, however obdurate."[71] Madame Restell was an object of criticism in both the respectable and penny presses. She was first arrested in 1841, but, it was her final arrest by Anthony Comstock which led to her suicide on the day of her trial April 1, 1878.[72]

Development of contemporary methods

Soviet poster c. 1925 warns against unsafe abortion. Title translation: "Abortions performed by either trained or self-taught midwives not only maim the woman, they also often lead to death."
Although prototypes of the modern curette are referred to in ancient texts, the instrument which is used today was initially designed in France in 1723, but was not applied specifically to a gynecological purpose until 1842.[73] Dilation and curettage has been practiced since the late 19th century.[73]

The 20th century saw improvements in abortion technology, increasing its safety, and reducing its side-effects. Vacuum devices, first described in medical literature in the 19th century, allowed for the development of suction-aspiration abortion.[73] This method was practiced in the Soviet Union, Japan, and China, before being introduced to Britain and the United States in the 1960s.[73] The invention of the Karman cannula, a flexible plastic cannula which replaced earlier metal models in the 1970s, reduced the occurrence of perforation and made suction-aspiration methods possible under local anesthesia.[73] In 1971, Lorraine Rothman and Carol Downer, founding members of the feminist self-help movement, invented the Del-Em, a safe, cheap suction device that made it possible for people with minimal training to perform early abortions called menstrual extraction.[73] During the mid-1990s in the United States the medical community showed renewed interest in manual vacuum aspiration as a method of early surgical abortion. This resurgence is due to technological advances that permit early pregnancy detection (as soon as a week after conception) and a growing popular demand for safe, effective early abortion options, both surgical and medical. An innovator in the development of early surgical abortion services is Jerry Edwards, a physician, who developed a protocol in which women are offered an abortion using a handheld vacuum syringe as soon as a positive pregnancy test is received. This protocol also allows the early detection of an ectopic pregnancy.[73]

Intact dilation and extraction was developed by Dr. James McMahon in 1983. It resembles a procedure used in the 19th century to save a woman's life in cases of obstructed labor, in which the fetal skull was first punctured with a perforator, then crushed and extracted with a forceps-like instrument, known as a cranioclast.[74][75]

In 1980, researchers at Roussel Uclaf in France developed mifepristone, a chemical compound which works as an abortifacient by blocking hormone action. It was first marketed in France under the trade name Mifegyne in 1988.[76]


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

House GOP votes to cut $39 billion from food stamp program
In Plain Sight
- 
Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:42 PM EDT

K.Vineys / AP
Chart shows federal food stamp participation since 1969
By Frank Thorp and Carrie Dann, NBC News
With only Republicans voting in support, the GOP-led House passed a bill Thursday to reduce spending for food stamps by $39 billion over 10 years.
The vote was 217-210. No Democrats voted for the measure.
Fifteen Republicans voted against the bill, which the Congressional Budget Office estimates will result in the loss of benefits for an estimated 3.8 million people in 2014.
Republican leaders dispute that the bill cuts nearly $40 billion from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) saying it instead eliminates loopholes that have allowed ineligible Americans to continue receiving the benefits.
Many rank-and-file Republicans say that while the SNAP reductions may be deep, they see the food stamp bill mostly as a starting point to blend with the Senates version of the legislation, which would result in much more moderate cuts.
But some in the GOP think the food stamp reductions go too deep.
"I just think on balance it's not a good bill," said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y. who intends to vote against the measure. "Against the whole backdrop of a government shutdown, I just think it's too much."
And House Democrats have excoriated the Republican plan.

"A very, very substantial number of families in the richest country on the face of the earth will be adversely affected by the bill, and I expect Democrats to oppose it overwhelmingly," House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said. "It again is carrying out the agenda of the most hardline factions of the Republican Party."
Wielding a steak, a bottle of vodka and a can of caviar on the House floor, Democratic Rep. Jackie Speier said Republicans who support the cuts are the beneficiaries of generous stipends for overseas travel. 
"They somehow feel like crusaders, like heroes when they vote to cut food stamps," she said of GOP backers of the cuts. "Some of these same members travel to foreign countries under the guise of official business. They dine at lavish restaurants, eating steak, vodka and even caviar."
The measure was previously stripped out of a larger farm bill that passed the House in July. GOP leaders were force to split the bill after conservatives pushed for deeper cuts as Democrats defected, saying the food stamp cuts would hurt poor families.
One of the provisions in the bill expected to pass the House today would toughen work requirements for food stamps, specifically for "able-bodied adults without dependents" between the ages of 18 and 50.
The House bill will require states to only give food stamp benefits to beneficiaries in this group if they obtain employment, participate in job training activities, or perform voluntary community service actives in exchange for those benefits.
The CBO estimates that provision will result in 1.7 million people losing benefits in 2014, and an average of 1 million people losing benefits per year over the next 10 years.
The budget agency also calculates that the number of food stamp recipients will be reduced dramatically over the next 10 years, from 48 million in 2014 to 34 million in 2023. But those changes would be due not only to the Republican bill, but an economy expected to rebound during that time.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Republicans are starving our most vulnerable, our Children.
They give the Parents no jobs and now take the food stamps from the Children.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> .


Bratty Patty
Exactly. Evolution proven.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Much is rightly made about the Republican War on Women. But the Republicans are fighting a more deliberate battle against the poor. It is audacious, insensitive and ugly. Republicans have clearly decided that the War on the Poor is good politics.

Today, 46 million Americans live in poverty, or 15 percent of the population. Some 20 percent of all children live in poverty. Nearly 40 percent of black children do. 

Yet the Paul Ryan budget would take two-thirds of its non-military cuts from low-income programs like Medicaid, food stamps, job training and Pell grants for college, according to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. While the Ryan plan would cut the tax rate for the rich to 25 percent, the non-partisan Tax Policy Center reports taxes for those who make $30,000 or less would go up.

Robert Greenstein, the president of the CBPP, calls it "likely... the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history."

The budget policy is only the spearhead of the war on the poor. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan would also reverse as much of Obamacare as possible, including if they can the enormous expansion of Medicaid passed by Congress. Few may realize that Medicaid, the healthcare plan for the poor, was designed only for families; no matter how poor, individuals did not qualify. Moreover, the typical cut-off for qualification even for families was two thirds of the poverty rate. This all changed with Obamacare. Some 15 to 17 million poor Americans would now get healthcare coverage.

Romney and Ryan would also change Medicare radically -- at least the Ryan budget would. Whose pocket would that come out of? The elderly, who are generally low-income Americans, have low poverty rates only because of Medicare and Social Security. They would immediately start to lose benefits if Obamacare were reversed. The Romney-Ryan camp try to cover this up by saying their plan would only affect those 55 and under today. Not so. And the Ryan plan of offering premium support -- vouchers -- rather than guaranteeing healthcare as is now done under Medicare would be highly costly to the elderly. 

A recent Center for American Progress report found that ending Obamacare would cost today's seniors $11,000 due to higher premiums and higher drug costs as the famed doughnut hole was set to close. As for those who turn 65 ten years from now, the losses are huge because premiums under Romney-Ryan will not keep up with healthcare costs. That could come to $60,000 in higher payments over the typical 2023 retiree's span of retirement. 

It's not just Romney and Ryan among the Republicans who are fighting a war on the poor. Republican states led the legal challenge against Obamacare, which would have provided healthcare coverage to two-thirds of Americans who have none, some 30 million people. They effectively lost in the Supreme Court. But when the Court ruled in June that states could reject the Medicaid portion of Obamacare, five Republican governors said they would, including the governor of Texas, where 25 percent of the population has no healthcare coverage. The national average is about 18 percent. These five and perhaps as many as roughly 20 more, all led by Republican governors, will do so even though the federal government will pick up 100 percent of the costs in the first few years, and 90 percent thereafter. It's worth mentioning that a new study from Harvard University finds that Medicaid does indeed save lives, reducing the death rate in several states where Medicaid had earlier been expanded.

Then there is the minimum wage. Republicans may now be trying to reduce its reach. In Arizona, Republicans have tried to repeal the minimum wage, claiming business can't afford it in a recession. But the federal minimum wage, now $7.25 an hour, has been raised so rarely in the last few decades, that it is well below its 1968 high when discounted for inflation. Mitt Romney has now backed off his long-held position to raise the minimum wage along with inflation to satisfy his fellow Republicans. They argue the old simplistic economic story that any increase in wages means lost jobs. But what America needs now is more spending -- and higher wages would help do that. America grew rapidly in the 1950s and 1960s when the minimum wage was relatively much higher than it is today. 

One pro-Republican interviewee on Moyers and Company recently asked whether anyone really believed Paul Ryan was cruel and didn't care about the poor. People baring harsh policies do not grow fangs. The Ryan argument is a very old conservative one: that social programs make people dependent. One wonders whether he believe there were any poor when there were no substantial programs to redistribute money in America -- say, in the 1800s. 

The Republicans of course say they want to provide jobs. Free markets, once released to work their magic, will enable workers to get a job and provide them the pride they lack. And Romney and Ryan they know how to do it -- tax cuts.

We'll get back to tax cuts. But, first, the markets don't work their magic -- anywhere. Economists like Tim Smeeding and political scientists like Lane Kenworthy have pored over the data on incomes across countries and have found that markets create a lot of poorly paid work, not only in the U.S. but also in much of Europe. The U.S. households with incomes less than 40 percent of the disposable income of the typical household comes to nearly 18 percent, but it is higher in England and not much lower in Germany or Sweden (Foreign Affairs, sept. oct, 2012, Campbell). One third of Americans have incomes below 200 percent of the poverty line -- the poverty line is about $14,000 for an individual, $22,000 for a family of four. 

What makes this tolerable is that social programs, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit, Medicaid and Medicare, redistribute income. Europe requires those same programs, and theirs on balance are far more generous. 

Paul Ryan has never, to my knowledge, presented evidence that reducing sharply these redistributive programs will work -- to motivate these people to find better jobs. His is an ideological argument, based on no serious theory and no serious experience. He knows, I suppose in his heart, that such a laissez-faire social state is better for the poor. And the Republicans pull out the Obama record to prove their point. The poverty rate went up in in 2009 and 2010 under Obama: he is clearly doing something wrong. Of course, Obama inherited that Bush recession.

But what they propose is more of what George W. Bush did. Big tax cuts to motivate the rich to create more jobs! It is worth noting that Bush's job creation record was the worst of any recovery in the postwar period. Moreover, wages remained essentially flat. And finally, Bush, who inherited a poverty rate from Bill Clinton of 11.3 percent, still had a poverty rate of 12.5 percent in 2007 after years of the housing-led economic expansion. In 2008, he left Obama a poverty rate of 13.2 percent, nearly two full percentage points above the one he inherited, and moving up inexorably. What about Reagan, the tax cutter? He left George H.W. Bush a poverty rate of 12.8 percent. Poverty rates had fallen to well below 12 percent in the 1970s as a result of Johnson's war on poverty. In the 1950s, the poverty rate was estimated at 22 or 23 percent. 

Romney and Ryan promise jobs to reduce poverty. There is little doubt it is the healthiest of cures. But their policy of tax cuts is merely a repeat of the failed Bush years. And the only way the Reagan years look passable is if you lop off the severe recession of 1981 and 1982, a habitual trick of The Wall Street Journal editorial page. Under Reagan, the great American wage stagnation began, and productivity growth remained slow. 

Romney and Ryan also claim that their cuts of social programs will get the nation's books in better balance and stoke confidence. What we need is a new stimulus to generate business and encourage companies to invest.

Are Romney and Ryan cruel? They are politicians who know their base believes the poor are getting way with something. It is a policy driven by fear and scapegoatism. They have sponsored highly deceptive ads about how Obama has taken the work requirement out of welfare and about how Medicare will rob from the elderly to finance coverage for the poor. One man's insensitivity and ignorance is another's cruelty, especially in difficult economic times. Better people would soften the anger, not stimulate it. Racism is always close to the surface when discussing social programs, even if the majority of the poor are white. The flip side of the War on the Poor is War on Minorities. It is a tragically sad country which will deliberately neglect its least advantaged -- especially when income inequality so starkly favors the rich and taxes are lower than in any other major nation. There is a hole in the Republican's moral fabric.

*Note: This article is a year old, but as you can see, nothing has changed./


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Social: History of abortion debate

Social discourses regarding abortion have historically been related to issues of family planning, religious and moral ideology, and human rights.

5th century to 16th century
""early period" the Church treated abortion of the pre-quickened fetus as anticipated homicide, homicide by intent, or quasi-homicide
c. 1115 Leges Henrici Primi treated pre-quickening abortion as a misdemeanour, and post quickening abortion as quasi-homicide, carrying a lesser penalty than homicide
1487 Malleus Maleficarum (The Hammer of Witches), a witch-hunting manual, is published in Germany. It accuses midwives who perform abortions of committing witchcraft.[77]
17th century to present
In the mid-to-late 19th century, during the fight for women's suffrage in the U.S., many first-wave feminists, such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton opposed abortion.[78][79] In the newspaper she operated with Susan B. Anthony, The Revolution, an anonymous contributor signing "A" wrote in 1869 about the subject, arguing that instead of merely attempting to pass a law against abortion, the root cause must also be addressed. Simply passing an anti-abortion law would, the writer stated, "be only mowing off the top of the noxious weed, while the root remains. [...] No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime."[79][80][81][82]

Around 1970, during second-wave feminism, abortion and reproductive rights were unifying issues among various women's rights groups in Canada, the United States, the Netherlands, Britain, Norway, France, Germany, and Italy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

/


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes it can


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

This how we treat our seniors?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BUDDHISM

Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian subcontinent that encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as the Buddha, meaning "the awakened one". The Buddha lived and taught in the eastern part of the Indian subcontinent sometime between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE.[1] He is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings end their suffering (dukkha) through the elimination of ignorance (avidyā) by way of understanding and the seeing of dependent origination (pratītyasamutpāda) and the elimination of desire (taṇhā), and thus the attainment of the cessation of all suffering, known as the sublime state of nirvāņa.[2]
Two major branches of Buddhism are generally recognized: Theravada ("The School of the Elders") and Mahayana ("The Great Vehicle"). Theravada has a widespread following in Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia (Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar etc.). Mahayana is found throughout East Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan etc.) and includes the traditions of Pure Land, Zen, Nichiren Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, Shingon, and Tiantai (Tendai). In some classifications, Vajrayanapracticed mainly in Tibet and Mongolia, and adjacent parts of China and Russiais recognized as a third branch, while others classify it as a part of Mahayana.
While Buddhism remains most popular within Asia and India, both branches are now found throughout the world. Estimates of Buddhists worldwide vary significantly depending on the way Buddhist adherence is defined. Estimates range from 350 million to 1.6 billion, with 350550 million the most widely accepted figure. Buddhism is also recognized as one of the fastest growing religions in the world.[3][4][5][6]
Buddhist schools vary on the exact nature of the path to liberation, the importance and canonicity of various teachings and scriptures, and especially their respective practices.[7] The foundations of Buddhist tradition and practice are the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma (the teachings), and the Sangha (the community). Taking "refuge in the triple gem" has traditionally been a declaration and commitment to being on the Buddhist path, and in general distinguishes a Buddhist from a non-Buddhist.[8] Other practices may include following ethical precepts; support of the monastic community; renouncing conventional living and becoming a monastic; the development of mindfulness and practice of meditation; cultivation of higher wisdom and discernment; study of scriptures; devotional practices; ceremonies; and in the Mahayana tradition, invocation of buddhas and bodhisattvas.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

It didn't have to happen


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hey Purl, You forgot your flowers.


Hey, Dame, You stole them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Buddhist Concepts

Saṃsāra

Within Buddhism, samsara is defined as the continual repetitive cycle of birth and death that arises from ordinary beings' grasping and fixating on a self and experiences. Specifically, samsara refers to the process of cycling through one rebirth after another within the six realms of existence,[a] where each realm can be understood as physical realm or a psychological state characterized by a particular type of suffering. Samsara arises out of avidya (ignorance) and is characterized by dukkha (suffering, anxiety, dissatisfaction). In the Buddhist view, liberation from samsara is possible by following the Buddhist path.

Karma
In Buddhism, Karma (from Sanskrit: "action, work") is the force that drives saṃsārathe cycle of suffering and rebirth for each being. Good, skillful deeds (Pāli: "kusala") and bad, unskillful (Pāli: "akusala") actions produce "seeds" in the mind that come to fruition either in this life or in a subsequent rebirth.[22] The avoidance of unwholesome actions and the cultivation of positive actions is called śīla (from Sanskrit: "ethical conduct").
In Buddhism, karma specifically refers to those actions of body, speech or mind that spring from mental intent ("cetana"),[23] and bring about a consequence or fruit, (phala) or result (vipāka).
In Theravada Buddhism there can be no divine salvation or forgiveness for one's karma, since it is a purely impersonal process that is a part of the makeup of the universe. In Mahayana Buddhism, the texts of certain Mahayana sutras (such as the Lotus Sutra, the Angulimaliya Sutra and the Nirvana Sutra) claim that the recitation or merely the hearing of their texts can expunge great swathes of negative karma. Some forms of Buddhism (for example, Vajrayana) regard the recitation of mantras as a means for cutting off of previous negative karma.[24] The Japanese Pure Land teacher Genshin taught that Amida Buddha has the power to destroy the karma that would otherwise bind one in saṃsāra.

Rebirth

Rebirth refers to a process whereby beings go through a succession of lifetimes as one of many possible forms of sentient life, each running from conception[27] to death. Buddhism rejects the concepts of a permanent self or an unchanging, eternal soul, as it is called in Hinduism and Christianity. According to Buddhism there ultimately is no such thing as a self independent from the rest of the universe (the doctrine of anatta). Buddhists also refer to themselves as the believers of the anatta doctrineNairatmyavadin or Anattavadin. Rebirth in subsequent existences must be understood as the continuation of a dynamic, ever-changing process of "dependent arising" ("pratītyasamutpāda") determined by the laws of cause and effect (karma) rather than that of one being, transmigrating or incarnating from one existence to the next.
Each rebirth takes place within one of five realms according to Theravadins, or six according to other schools.[28][29]
Naraka beings: those who live in one of many Narakas (Hells);
Preta: sometimes sharing some space with humans, but invisible to most people; an important variety is the hungry ghost;[30]
Animals: sharing space with humans, but considered another type of life;
Human beings: one of the realms of rebirth in which attaining Nirvana is possible;
Asuras: variously translated as lowly deities, demons, titans, antigods; not recognized by Theravāda (Mahavihara) tradition as a separate realm;[31]
Devas including Brahmas: variously translated as gods, deities, spirits, angels, or left untranslated.
The above are further subdivided into 31 planes of existence.[32] Rebirths in some of the higher heavens, known as the Śuddhāvāsa Worlds or Pure Abodes, can be attained only by skilled Buddhist practitioners known as anāgāmis (non-returners). Rebirths in the arupa-dhatu (formless realms) can be attained by only those who can meditate on the arūpajhānas, the highest object of meditation.
According to East Asian and Tibetan Buddhism, there is an intermediate state (Tibetan "Bardo") between one life and the next. The orthodox Theravada position rejects this; however there are passages in the Samyutta Nikaya of the Pali Canon (the collection of texts on which the Theravada tradition is based), that seem to lend support to the idea that the Buddha taught of an intermediate stage between one life and the next.[33][34]
Suffering's causes and solution
The Four Noble Truths
Main article: Four Noble Truths
The teachings on the Four Noble Truths are regarded as central to the teachings of Buddhism, and are said to provide a conceptual framework for Buddhist thought. These four truths explain the nature of dukkha (suffering, anxiety, dissatisfaction), its causes, and how it can be overcome. The four truths are:[c]
The truth of dukkha (suffering, anxiety, dissatisfaction)
The truth of the origin of dukkha
The truth of the cessation of dukkha
The truth of the path leading to the cessation of dukkha
The first truth explains the nature of dukkha. Dukkha is commonly translated as suffering, anxiety, dissatisfaction, unease, etc., and it is said to have the following three aspects:
the obvious suffering of physical and mental illness, growing old, and dying;
the anxiety or stress of trying to hold onto things that are constantly changing; and
a subtle dissatisfaction pervading all forms of life, due to the fact that all forms of life are impermanent and constantly changing.[d]
The second truth is that the origin of dukkha can be known. Within the context of the four noble truths, the origin of dukkha is commonly explained as craving (Pali: tanha) conditioned by ignorance (Pali: avijja). On a deeper level, the root cause of dukkha is identified as ignorance (Pali: avijja) of the true nature of things. The third noble truth is that the complete cessation of dukkha is possible, and the fourth noble truth identifies a path to this cessation.

Noble Eightfold Path

The Dharmachakra represents the Noble Eightfold Path.
The Noble Eightfold Paththe fourth of the Buddha's Noble Truthsconsists of a set of eight interconnected factors or conditions, that when developed together, lead to the cessation of dukkha.[35] These eight factors are: Right View (or Right Understanding), Right Intention (or Right Thought), Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, and Right Concentration.
Ajahn Sucitto describes the path as "a mandala of interconnected factors that support and moderate each other."[35] The eight factors of the path are not to be understood as stages, in which each stage is completed before moving on to the next. Rather, they are understood as eight significant dimensions of one's behaviourmental, spoken, and bodilythat operate in dependence on one another; taken together, they define a complete path, or way of living.
The eight factors of the path are commonly presented within three divisions (or higher trainings) as shown below:
Division	Eightfold factor	Sanskrit, Pali	Description
Wisdom
(Sanskrit: prajñā,
Pāli: paññā)	1. Right view	samyag dṛṣṭi,
sammā ditthi	Viewing reality as it is, not just as it appears to be
2. Right intention	samyag saṃkalpa,
sammā sankappa	Intention of renunciation, freedom and harmlessness
Ethical conduct
(Sanskrit: śīla,
Pāli: sīla)	3. Right speech	samyag vāc,
sammā vāca	Speaking in a truthful and non-hurtful way
4. Right action	samyag karman,
sammā kammanta	Acting in a non-harmful way
5. Right livelihood	samyag ājīvana,
sammā ājīva	A non-harmful livelihood
Concentration
(Sanskrit and Pāli: samādhi)	6. Right effort	samyag vyāyāma,
sammā vāyāma	Making an effort to improve
7. Right mindfulness	samyag smṛti,
sammā sati	Awareness to see things for what they are with clear consciousness;
being aware of the present reality within oneself, without any craving or aversion
8. Right concentration	samyag samādhi,
sammā samādhi	Correct meditation or concentration, explained as the first four jhānas
The Four Immeasurables

Statue of Buddha in Wat Phra Si Rattana Mahathat, Phitsanulok, Thailand
Main article: Brahmavihara
While he searched for enlightenment, Gautama combined the yoga practice of his teacher Kalama with what later became known as "the immeasurables".[37][dubious  discuss] Gautama thus invented a new kind of human, one without egotism.[37][dubious  discuss] What Thich Nhat Hanh calls the "Four Immeasurable Minds" of love, compassion, joy, and equanimity[38] are also known as brahmaviharas, divine abodes, or simply as four immeasurables.[39] Pema Chödrön calls them the "four limitless ones".[40] Of the four, mettā or loving-kindness meditation is perhaps the best known.[39] The Four Immeasurables are taught as a form of meditation that cultivates "wholesome attitudes towards all sentient beings."[41] The practitioner prays:
May all sentient beings have happiness and its causes,
May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its causes,
May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss without suffering,
May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of bias, attachment and anger.[42]
Middle Way
Main article: Middle Way
An important guiding principle of Buddhist practice is the Middle Way (or Middle Path), which is said to have been discovered by Gautama Buddha prior to his enlightenment. The Middle Way has several definitions:
The practice of non-extremism: a path of moderation away from the extremes of self-indulgence and self-mortification;
The middle ground between certain metaphysical views (for example, that things ultimately either do or do not exist);[43]
An explanation of Nirvana (perfect enlightenment), a state wherein it becomes clear that all dualities apparent in the world are delusory;
Another term for emptiness, the ultimate nature of all phenomena (in the Mahayana branch), a lack of inherent existence, which avoids the extremes of permanence and nihilism or inherent existence and nothingness.
Nature of existence

Monks debating at Sera Monastery, Tibet
Buddhist scholars have produced a remarkable quantity of intellectual theories, philosophies and world view concepts (see, for example, Abhidharma, Buddhist philosophy and Reality in Buddhism). Some schools of Buddhism discourage doctrinal study, and some regard it as essential practice.
The concept of liberation (nirvāṇa)the goal of the Buddhist pathis closely related to overcoming ignorance (avidyā), a fundamental misunderstanding or mis-perception of the nature of reality. In awakening to the true nature of the self and all phenomena one develops dispassion for the objects of clinging, and is liberated from suffering (dukkha) and the cycle of incessant rebirths (saṃsāra). To this end, the Buddha recommended viewing things as characterized by the three marks of existence.
Three Marks of Existence

The Three Marks of Existence are impermanence, suffering, and not-self.
Impermanence (Pāli: anicca) expresses the Buddhist notion that all compounded or conditioned phenomena (all things and experiences) are inconstant, unsteady, and impermanent. Everything we can experience through our senses is made up of parts, and its existence is dependent on external conditions. Everything is in constant flux, and so conditions and the thing itself are constantly changing. Things are constantly coming into being, and ceasing to be. Since nothing lasts, there is no inherent or fixed nature to any object or experience. According to the doctrine of impermanence, life embodies this flux in the aging process, the cycle of rebirth (saṃsāra), and in any experience of loss. The doctrine asserts that because things are impermanent, attachment to them is futile and leads to suffering (dukkha).
Suffering (Pāli: दुक्ख dukkha; Sanskrit दुःख duḥkha) is also a central concept in Buddhism. The word roughly corresponds to a number of terms in English including suffering, pain, unsatisfactoriness, sorrow, affliction, anxiety, dissatisfaction, discomfort, anguish, stress, misery, and frustration. Although the term is often translated as "suffering", its philosophical meaning is more analogous to "disquietude" as in the condition of being disturbed. As such, "suffering" is too narrow a translation with "negative emotional connotations"[44] that can give the impression that the Buddhist view is pessimistic, but Buddhism seeks to be neither pessimistic nor optimistic, but realistic. In English-language Buddhist literature translated from Pāli, "dukkha" is often left untranslated, so as to encompass its full range of meaning.[45][46][47]
Not-self (Pāli: anatta; Sanskrit: anātman) is the third mark of existence. Upon careful examination, one finds that no phenomenon is really "I" or "mine"; these concepts are in fact constructed by the mind. In the Nikayas anatta is not meant as a metaphysical assertion, but as an approach for gaining release from suffering. In fact, the Buddha rejected both of the metaphysical assertions "I have a Self" and "I have no Self" as ontological views that bind one to suffering.[48] When asked if the self was identical with the body, the Buddha refused to answer. By analyzing the constantly changing physical and mental constituents (skandhas) of a person or object, the practitioner comes to the conclusion that neither the respective parts nor the person as a whole comprise a self.
Dependent arising
Main article: Pratītyasamutpāda
The doctrine of pratītyasamutpāda (Sanskrit; Pali: paticcasamuppāda; Tibetan: rten.cing.'brel.bar.'byung.ba; Chinese: 緣起) is an important part of Buddhist metaphysics. It states that phenomena arise together in a mutually interdependent web of cause and effect. It is variously rendered into English as "dependent origination", "conditioned genesis", "dependent co-arising", "interdependent arising", or "contingency".
The best-known application of the concept of pratītyasamutpāda is the scheme of Twelve Nidānas (from Pāli "nidāna" meaning "cause, foundation, source or origin"), which explain the continuation of the cycle of suffering and rebirth (saṃsāra) in detail.[49]
Main article: Twelve Nidānas
The Twelve Nidānas describe a causal connection between the subsequent characteristics or conditions of cyclic existence, each one giving rise to the next:
Avidyā: ignorance, specifically spiritual ignorance of the nature of reality;[50]
Saṃskāras: literally formations, explained as referring to karma;
Vijñāna: consciousness, specifically discriminative;[51]
Nāmarūpa: literally name and form, referring to mind and body;[52]
Ṣaḍāyatana: the six sense bases: eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind-organ;
Sparśa: variously translated contact, impression, stimulation (by a sense object);
Vedanā: usually translated feeling: this is the "hedonic tone", i.e. whether something is pleasant, unpleasant or neutral;
Tṛṣṇā: literally thirst, but in Buddhism nearly always used to mean craving;
Upādāna: clinging or grasping; the word also means fuel, which feeds the continuing cycle of rebirth;
Bhava: literally being (existence) or becoming. (The Theravada explains this as having two meanings: karma, which produces a new existence, and the existence itself.);[53]
Jāti: literally birth, but life is understood as starting at conception;[54]
Jarāmaraṇa: (old age and death) and also soka, parideva, dukkha, domanassa and upāyāsā (sorrow, lamentation, pain, affliction and despair).[55]
Sentient beings always suffer throughout saṃsāra, until they free themselves from this suffering (dukkha) by attaining Nirvana. Then the absence of the first Nidānaignoranceleads to the absence of the others.
Emptiness
Main article: Śūnyatā
Mahayana Buddhism received significant theoretical grounding from Nagarjuna (perhaps c. 150250 CE), arguably the most influential scholar within the Mahayana tradition. Nagarjuna's primary contribution to Buddhist philosophy was the systematic exposition of the concept of śūnyatā, or "emptiness", widely attested in the Prajñāpāramitā sutras that emerged in his era. The concept of emptiness brings together other key Buddhist doctrines, particularly anatta and pratītyasamutpāda (dependent origination), to refute the metaphysics of Sarvastivada and Sautrantika (extinct non-Mahayana schools). For Nagarjuna, it is not merely sentient beings that are empty of ātman; all phenomena (dharmas) are without any svabhava (literally "own-nature" or "self-nature"), and thus without any underlying essence; they are "empty" of being independent; thus the heterodox theories of svabhava circulating at the time were refuted on the basis of the doctrines of early Buddhism. Nagarjuna's school of thought is known as the Mādhyamaka. Some of the writings attributed to Nagarjuna made explicit references to Mahayana texts, but his philosophy was argued within the parameters set out by the agamas. He may have arrived at his positions from a desire to achieve a consistent exegesis of the Buddha's doctrine as recorded in the Canon. In the eyes of Nagarjuna the Buddha was not merely a forerunner, but the very founder of the Mādhyamaka system.[56]
Sarvastivada teachingswhich were criticized by Nāgārjunawere reformulated by scholars such as Vasubandhu and Asanga and were adapted into the Yogacara (Sanskrit: yoga practice) school. While the Mādhyamaka school held that asserting the existence or non-existence of any ultimately real thing was inappropriate, some exponents of Yogacara asserted that the mind and only the mind is ultimately real (a doctrine known as cittamatra). Not all Yogacarins asserted that mind was truly existent; Vasubandhu and Asanga in particular did not.[57] These two schools of thought, in opposition or synthesis, form the basis of subsequent Mahayana metaphysics in the Indo-Tibetan tradition.
Besides emptiness, Mahayana schools often place emphasis on the notions of perfected spiritual insight (prajñāpāramitā) and Buddha-nature (tathāgatagarbha). There are conflicting interpretations of the tathāgatagarbha in Mahāyāna thought. The idea may be traced to Abhidharma, and ultimately to statements of the Buddha in the Nikāyas. In Tibetan Buddhism, according to the Sakya school, tathāgatagarbha is the inseparability of the clarity and emptiness of one's mind. In Nyingma, tathāgatagarbha also generally refers to inseparability of the clarity and emptiness of one's mind. According to the Gelug school, it is the potential for sentient beings to awaken since they are empty (i.e. dependently originated). According to the Jonang school, it refers to the innate qualities of the mind that expresses themselves as omniscience etc. when adventitious obscurations are removed. The "Tathāgatagarbha Sutras" are a collection of Mahayana sutras that present a unique model of Buddha-nature. Even though this collection was generally ignored in India,[58] East Asian Buddhism provides some significance to these texts.
Liberation
Nirvana

Mahabodhi temple in Bodhgaya, India, where Gautama Buddha attained Nirvana under the Bodhi Tree (left)
Main article: Nirvana (concept)
Nirvana (Sanskrit; Pali: "Nibbana") means "cessation", "extinction" (of craving and ignorance and therefore suffering and the cycle of involuntary rebirths (saṃsāra)), "extinguished", "quieted", "calmed"; it is also known as "Awakening" or "Enlightenment" in the West. The term for anybody who has achieved nirvana, including the Buddha, is arahant.
Bodhi (Pāli and Sanskrit, in devanagari: बॊधि) is a term applied to the experience of Awakening of arahants. Bodhi literally means "awakening", but it is more commonly translated into English as "enlightenment". In Early Buddhism, bodhi carried a meaning synonymous to nirvana, using only some different metaphors to describe the experience, which implies the extinction of raga (greed, craving),[59] dosa (hate, aversion)[60] and moha (delusion).[61] In the later school of Mahayana Buddhism, the status of nirvana was downgraded in some scriptures, coming to refer only to the extinction of greed and hate, implying that delusion was still present in one who attained nirvana, and that one needed to attain bodhi to eradicate delusion:
An important development in the Mahayana [was] that it came to separate nirvana from bodhi ('awakening' to the truth, Enlightenment), and to put a lower value on the former (Gombrich, 1992d). Originally nirvana and bodhi refer to the same thing; they merely use different metaphors for the experience. But the Mahayana tradition separated them and considered that nirvana referred only to the extinction of craving (passion and hatred), with the resultant escape from the cycle of rebirth. This interpretation ignores the third fire, delusion: the extinction of delusion is of course in the early texts identical with what can be positively expressed as gnosis, Enlightenment.
Richard F. Gombrich, How Buddhism Began[62]
Therefore, according to Mahayana Buddhism, the arahant has attained only nirvana, thus still being subject to delusion, while the bodhisattva not only achieves nirvana but full liberation from delusion as well. He thus attains bodhi and becomes a buddha. In Theravada Buddhism, bodhi and nirvana carry the same meaning as in the early texts, that of being freed from greed, hate and delusion.
The term parinirvana is also encountered in Buddhism, and this generally refers to the complete nirvana attained by the arahant at the moment of death, when the physical body expires.
Buddhas
Main article: Buddhahood
According to Buddhist traditions a Buddha is a fully awakened being who has completely purified his mind of the three poisons of desire, aversion and ignorance. A Buddha is no longer bound by Samsara and has ended the suffering which unawakened people experience in life.
Buddhists do not consider Siddhartha Gautama to have been the only Buddha. The Pali Canon refers to many previous ones (see List of the 28 Buddhas), while the Mahayana tradition additionally has many Buddhas of celestial, rather than historical, origin (see Amitabha or Vairocana as examples, for lists of many thousands Buddha names see Taishō Shinshū Daizōkyō numbers 439448). A common Theravada and Mahayana Buddhist belief is that the next Buddha will be one named Maitreya (Pali: Metteyya).
According to Theravada
In Theravada doctrine, a person may awaken from the "sleep of ignorance" by directly realizing the true nature of reality; such people are called arahants and occasionally buddhas. After numerous lifetimes of spiritual striving, they have reached the end of the cycle of rebirth, no longer reincarnating as human, animal, ghost, or other being. The commentaries to the Pali Canon classify these awakened beings into three types:
Sammasambuddha, usually just called the Buddha, who discovers the truth by himself and teaches the path to awakening to others
Paccekabuddha, who discovers the truth by himself but lacks the skill to teach others
Savakabuddha, who receive the truth directly or indirectly from a Sammasambuddha
Bodhi and nirvana carry the same meaning, that of being freed from craving, hate, and delusion. In attaining bodhi, the arahant has overcome these obstacles. As a further distinction, the extinction of only hatred and greed (in the sensory context) with some residue of delusion, is called anagami.
According to Mahayana

The Great Statue of Buddha Amitabha in Kamakura, Japan
In the Mahayana, the Buddha tends not to be viewed as merely human, but as the earthly projection of a beginningless and endless, omnipresent being (see Dharmakaya) beyond the range and reach of thought. Moreover, in certain Mahayana sutras, the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha are viewed essentially as One: all three are seen as the eternal Buddha himself.
The Buddha's death is seen as an illusion, he is living on in other planes of existence, and monks are therefore permitted to offer "new truths" based on his input. Mahayana also differs from Theravada in its concept of śūnyatā (that ultimately nothing has existence), and in its belief in bodhisattvas (enlightened people who vow to continue being reborn until all beings can be enlightened).[63]
Celestial Buddhas are individuals who no longer exist on the material plane of existence, but who still aid in the enlightenment of all beings.
Nirvana came to refer only to the extinction of greed and hate,[dubious  discuss] implying that delusion was still present in one who attained Nirvana. Bodhi became a higher attainment that eradicates delusion entirely.[62] Thus, the Arahant attains Nirvana but not Bodhi, thus still being subject to delusion, while the Buddha attains Bodhi.[dubious  discuss]
The method of self-exertion or "self-power"without reliance on an external force or beingstands in contrast to another major form of Buddhism, Pure Land, which is characterised by utmost trust in the salvific "other-power" of Amitabha Buddha. Pure Land Buddhism is a very widespread and perhaps the most faith-orientated manifestation of Buddhism and centres upon the conviction that faith in Amitabha Buddha and the chanting of homage to his name liberates one at death into the Blissful (安樂), Pure Land (淨土) of Amitabha Buddha. This Buddhic realm is variously construed as a foretaste of Nirvana, or as essentially Nirvana itself. The great vow of Amitabha Buddha to rescue all beings from samsaric suffering is viewed within Pure Land Buddhism as universally efficacious, if only one has faith in the power of that vow or chants his name.
Buddha eras
Buddhists believe Gautama Buddha was the first to achieve enlightenment in this Buddha era and is therefore credited with the establishment of Buddhism. A Buddha era is the stretch of history during which people remember and practice the teachings of the earliest known Buddha. This Buddha era will end when all the knowledge, evidence and teachings of Gautama Buddha have vanished. This belief therefore maintains that many Buddha eras have started and ended throughout the course of human existence.[64][65] The Gautama Buddha, then, is the Buddha of this era, who taught directly or indirectly to all other Buddhas in it (see types of Buddhas).
In addition, Mahayana Buddhists believe there are innumerable other Buddhas in other universes.[66] A Theravada commentary says that Buddhas arise one at a time in this world element, and not at all in others.[67] The understandings of this matter reflect widely differing interpretations of basic terms, such as "world realm", between the various schools of Buddhism.
The idea of the decline and gradual disappearance of the teaching has been influential in East Asian Buddhism. Pure Land Buddhism holds that it has declined to the point where few are capable of following the path, so it may be best to rely on the power of the Amitabha Buddha.
Bodhisattvas
Main article: Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva means "enlightenment being", and generally refers to one who is on the path to buddhahood. Traditionally, a bodhisattva is anyone who, motivated by great compassion, has generated bodhicitta, which is a spontaneous wish to attain Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.[68] Theravada Buddhism primarily uses the term in relation to Gautama Buddha's previous existences, but has traditionally acknowledged and respected the bodhisattva path as well.[69]
According to Jan Nattier, the term Mahāyāna ("Great Vehicle") was originally even an honorary synonym for Bodhisattvayāna, or the "Bodhisattva Vehicle."[70] The Aṣṭasāhasrikā Prajñāpāramitā Sūtra, an early and important Mahāyāna text, contains a simple and brief definition for the term bodhisattva, and this definition is the following:[71][72][73]
Because he has enlightenment as his aim, a bodhisattva-mahāsattva is so called.
Mahāyāna Buddhism encourages everyone to become bodhisattvas and to take the bodhisattva vows. With these vows, one makes the promise to work for the complete enlightenment of all beings by practicing six perfections (Skt. pāramitā).[74] According to the Mahāyāna teachings, these perfections are: giving, discipline, forbearance, effort, meditation, and transcendent wisdom.
A famous saying by the 8th-century Indian Buddhist scholar-saint Shantideva, which the Dalai Lama often cites as his favourite verse, summarizes the Bodhisattva's intention (Bodhicitta) as follows:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Something to think about.....


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)




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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

AP Photo/The Columbus Dispatch, Chris Russell
A number of policymakers on both sides of the aisle cheered when, in April, the Arkansas Legislature passed a law both expanding Medicaid and transforming it into a service available in a marketplace of insurance options, a move known as the private option. Similar cheers erupted in June when Iowa Governor Terry Branstad approved a similar measure. The legislation marked a major accomplishmentnot because the policies are necessarily improvements over traditional Medicaid but because they establish politically palatable paths for conservatives who want to increase access to health care. In Pennsylvania, GOP Governor Tom Corbettwho was against Medicaid expansion and this week announced he is is tepidly for ithas pointed to the these new plans as a model he might consider (among other, more controversial changes.) The private option may be a way to make comprehensive health-care coverage viable in other Republican statesbut that depends largely on what happens in Arkansas and Iowa over the next several months.

The key promise of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) is to make health coverage accessible to everyone, regardless of income level, but GOP leaders in Republican-controlled states have fought hard against expanding Medicaid to adults too poor to buy subsidized health plans. The expansion means that the entitlement program will include not only parents who are destitute and the severely disabled, but also adults, with or without children, who make less than 133 percent of the federal poverty line (around $31,000 annually for a family of four). The generous Medicaid benefits package includes prescription-drug coverage and emergency care, as well as regular checkups, all free of charge.

For many Republicans, however, supporting the expansion is tantamount to supporting Obamacare, a political sin not likely to be forgotten. In Congress, for instance, Republicans are debating a government shut down in the hopes of defunding the new health-care plan. In 16 states, GOP governors have actively opposed expansion, and another four GOP governors seem content to weigh options while their legislatures do nothing. Most conservative elected officials dont want to change course and work with the legislation. But because the federal government will pay the vast majority of costs, opting out of Medicaid expansion means shutting the door on billions of federal dollars for states. It also means incurring the wrath of hospitals and health-insurance companies, industries that benefit from higher coverage. Plenty of conservatives might be open to some sort of compromise if it still allows them to save face politically.

Which is why states that couldnt pass traditional Medicaid expansion are watching to see what will happen with Iowas and Arkansass measures to send newly Medicaid-eligible people into private insurance plans. To some extent, the programs would work like food stamps dorather than providing the plan (or food) directly, the government would allow people to choose from existing options and then pick up the cost. But concerns about expenses and quality of coverage have left some health-care advocates suspicious if not downright hostile to the programs.

For now, both states are awaiting federal approval of their plans. Even if they get the OK, they will still have a long way to go to implement the new approach. But based on the outcomes, we may soon see other red states adopting similar models so they can have their Medicaid cake and eat it too.

This Was Never Supposed to Happen

At the time the ACA was written, many states, particularly conservative ones, had Medicaid guidelines that only allowed those with serious disabilities or destitute parents to qualify for the program. The ACA required states to expand Medicaid to cover everyone living under 133 percent of the federal poverty level. Adults who made above the Medicaid cutoff (and below 400 percent of the federal poverty level) would receive federal subsidies to help them buy plans in online insurance marketplaces where they could choose between different, standardized levels of coverage.

Then, last summer, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the ACA couldnt require states to expand Medicaid coverage. It was an outcome virtually no one had foreseen, which created a bizarre gap in access to health-care coverage. Under the law federal subsidies are only available to those making more than 100 percent of the poverty line, around $24,00 for a family of four. Those below, who live in states that decided not to expand, would have no options for affordable care. Conservative states, where lawmakers railed against Obamacare, werent about to expand Medicaid if they didnt have to.

AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite
Much of the math of the ACA assumes that just about everyone is getting coveragethat means the level of risk insurers take on is lower because plenty of healthy people will participate. It also means the costs associated with poor uninsured people needing emergency care but having no means to pay for it would go down drastically. The Obama administration needs as many states as possible to expand Medicaid so that more people have health-care coverage. Its eager to work with any states that will play ball. But that doesnt mean it will accept just any planafter all, its the one paying. In March, as the Arkansas proposal began to come together, the Department of Human Services released a guide for states considering the private model. While it left a lot of latitude, DHS was adamant that states provide wraparound servicein other words, supplement the private plans to provide all the benefits of a traditional Medicaid package. When Iowa passed its private-option measure in June, however, lawmakers ignored that particular admonition.

Its Better Than Nothing

While theres tremendous debate about whether the Iowa and Arkansas private options can improve on Medicaid, what they offer is undoubtedly better than no expansion at all. For Judy Solomon, the vice president of health policy for the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal economic think tank, whats most important is that people are getting covered. In a state like Arkansas, there was no possibility there would be a straight Medicaid expansion, she says.

Iowa and Arkansas have a number of similarities. Each is rural with around three million residents, and both came to their plans through bipartisan compromise. In Iowa, the Senate is Democratic while the governor and House are Republican-dominated; in Arkansas, Governor Mike Beebe is a Democrat and both chambers of the legislature are Republican. The states privatized Medicaid plans also resemble each other. For each, assuming DHS approves, those who qualify will be allowed to select among a few designated health plans already offered through the ACA marketplace. Medicaid has long been criticized because its payment rates are so low that many doctors will not accept them. Under the private options, people will be able to choose between plans with different levels of access and different strengths. Significantly, both states intend to identify those with serious medical needs during the enrollment process and put those people into a more traditional Medicaid program that will provide the full range of benefits.

The key differences between the two plans are in their health-care and safety-net programs. Iowa has long had a robust Medicaid program, which already offered limited coverage to a relatively large swath of low-income adults, while Arkansass Medicaid system is extremely bare-bones, covering few adults who dont have severe disabilities. According to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, 18 percent of Arkansans were uninsured in 2010-2011, compared with just 11 percent of Iowans.

Arkansass program will cover the states entire Medicaid populationwhich is growing drastically. Those who qualify will choose from plans on the ACA marketplace, and any Medicaid benefits not provided through the plan will come through separate services the state will provide to wraparound the core plan. Medicaid beneficiaries will also have to bear some portion of the cost of their treatment.

Iowa, which has already been operating a Medicaid program for a relatively large population, is implementing changes more gradually. The state is only opening up the private option to those in the highest, Medicaid-eligible income brackets (between 100 and 133 percent of the federal poverty level). Everyone else will continue on traditional Medicaid. Iowas plan will charge just about everyone with a $20 premium, which can be waived through participating in wellness programs. (Only those making less than 50 percent of the poverty levelor $5,500 for an individualwould be exempt.) The premium is among the most controversial aspects of the proposal and one many expect the federal government to spike. However, no one will pay this premium the first year, and those who get a health-risk assessment and a physical wont have to pay premiums in year two. For those entering the private option, the state has also requested not to provide the wraparound services, instead promising that those who need care beyond what the private plans provide for will go into the traditional Medicaid system.

The Big Concerns

AP Photo/Danny Johnston
In this April 16, 2013 photo, Arkansas House Majority Leader Bruce Westerman signals his intention to speak against a Medicaid funding bill. The funding provision passed.

The very idea of the privatized Medicaid plan raised suspicion among a number of advocates. When I interviewed him in June, as the plans emerged, Tom Oliver, a professor of population health sciences at the University of Wisconsin and an expert in health-care reform, worried that when push came to shove, privatized Medicaid was mainly about getting more money to insurance companies. This is a more lucrative deal for the health-care establishment, but it's a worse deal for the Medicaid population, he said.

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Folks like Oliver worry that Medicaid beneficiaries in these states will ultimately receive fewer benefits. Iowas request to be exempt from providing wraparound care raises red flags, as does the decrease in oversight that comes with turning the system largely over to the market. Furthermore, requiring beneficiaries to pay premiums if they fail to get a physical has caused further concerns.

Its not really clear that theyre going to maintain the role of the Medicaid agency to do oversight and monitor, says Judy Solomon.

Medicaid directors in Iowa and Arkansas insist these new programs are a positive step forward. But while their agencies will continue to oversee programs for those with serious or chronic illnesses, they wont be doing as much to oversee the private plans. How would you define what an underproviding insurer looks like? asks Andy Allison, Arkansass Medicaid director. Where would you set the benchmark, how would you establish a threshold? Its the private marketplace that will set that determination.

Because the ACA requires insurers to cover a number of key services, known as essential health benefits, from mental health care and substance abuse to preventative care and wellness, the state administrators argue that any program chosen on the private market will meet basic needs. Those requiring wraparound services wouldnt be choosing in the private market in the first place, they sayrather those people will be directed to a traditional Medicaid benefits package.

Iowa will focus on identifying those who need greater access and put them in the right plan rather than trying to tinker with the [private] plans, says Jennifer Vermeer, Iowas Medicaid director. The premiums, she notes, will push enrollees toward more preventative care; so long as enrollees meet certain preventative guidelines, like getting a physical, they wont need to pay anything.

Allison says much of the concern stems from a misunderstanding about the new programsinstead of setting out the benefits package beforehand, the market will give people a variety of options. It may take outsiders quite a long time to grasp just how profoundly different this model is, he says. Medicaid services are being defined by the new standard for price coverage. In other states, the relationship goes the other way.

The difference in Medicaid benefits is nothing new. Every state in the country has a somewhat different benefits package, explains Michael Sparer, the chair of Columbia Universitys Department of Health Policy and Management at the Mailman School of Public Health. But theres still concern that there wont be enough oversight to ensure the programs run smoothly and beneficiaries get what they need.

The Cost

Whether these programs prove to be cost-efficient will largely determine whether any other statesparticularly Republican onesundertake similar plans. The federal government will also consider the costs when deciding whether to approve the programs.

While this privatized Medicaid will be more expensive, because the private health plans cost more and pay doctors and other health-care providers at higher rates, advocates argue that by bringing more healthy people into the marketplacesand weeding out those with serious medical needsthe overall risk level will be lower. Thats because a smaller proportion of people are likely to require services.

What theyre saying is because there will be all these people, the overall premiums will be cheaper, and that will be good for the federal government, Judy Solomon says. If you stick within the Medicaid program, I dont think you can make that argument.  Theyre looking more broadly.

But this will be the first time states have undertaken such a large-scale effort at flagging chronic and serious illnesses. And neither Arkansas nor Iowa has done this before. If they do not identify enough people who need a wide array of services and put them in traditional Medicaid, then those people will instead demand those services from their private insurance, raising the level of riskand by extension, the cost overall.

A more stable risk pool, meanwhile, should, advocates say, lower premiums for everyone and lower costs of health care for the federal government. A study in The New England Journal of Medicine found, for instance, that the programs would cut down on the logistical problems that waste time and cost money, particularly in families that previously grappled with multiple types of coverage. Ron Manderscheid, executive director of the National Association of County Behavioral Health and Developmental Disability Directors, has written in support of the Iowa Medicaid plan and says the key to savings will be identifying enough people with serious needs and keeping them in traditional Medicaid. Unless the medically frail people get taken out, the system could wind up being more expensive. Theres a tipping point, he says. If you go far enough in defining medically frail, then youre decreasing the risk pool.

The Advantages

Im not convinced its going to be worse than if they did the expansion the traditional way, Michael Sparer says. It may sound like damning with faint praise, but if the private programs can function as well as Medicaid, it will be no small feat. Even though Medicaid pays low rates to health-care providers, it does offer a wide range of benefits with an impressive degree of efficiency. Many are hoping the new programs may indeed improve the Medicaid modeland not just because privatized allows more Republicans to lend their support.

For one thing, by using the private plans, which pay providers more, policymakers in Iowa and Arkansas are hoping beneficiaries will be able to choose from a wider range of care. They make a strong argument that this is going to provide better provider access, says Judy Solomon, though she notes the same thing could likely be accomplished by simply paying providers more through traditional Medicaid.

Another central argument for these programs is that theyll reduce the frequency of people going on and off the Medicaid rolls. This problem, known as churn, affects people whose incomes sit on the cutoff for Medicaidsome years they earn too much to get benefits; other years they make little enough to qualify for benefits. But because the privatized program will pay for the same marketplace plans everyone is choosing from, those who get kicked off Medicaid can get their health-care plan with federal subsidies. Jennifer Vermeer, the Iowa Medicaid director, for one, says a key goal of the new program is definitely to reduce the churn.

Solomon, however, is skeptical. I dont buy the churning argument, she says. I think it will just occur at different point.

Yet another hope is that these new programs will better encourage preventative care with incentives like waiving premiums, as in the Iowa plan, if participants get a physical and a health-risk assessment. Down the road, Iowa wants to use premium waivers to encourage quitting smoking, improving nutrition, and the like.

The Iowa compromise on the Medicaid expansion probably is a better model than was originally envisioned, says Ron Manderscheid citing the potential for the wellness programs. If they get that implemented and get it to work, that should decrease the risk pool in both traditional Medicaid and the marketplace.

But many key ifs remain for the plansincluding federal approval. With just months before January 1, when these systems are meant to go into effect, state administrators are scrambling. My greatest fear is the expectation of immediate and complete success, Andy Allison says. Obviously, other states are watching.

New Hampshire, which is still debating Medicaid expansion, held hearings in August on the Iowa and Arkansas models, and Allison says that hes heard from other policymakers who will likely see what happens before implementing similar programs in their own states. If the programs can demonstrate success, they may become a model Republican lawmakers turn to in order to both get the federal funding for Medicaid while still claiming conservative bona fides.

I hope it works, Solomon says. Because its going to happen. My feeling is we make it as good as it can be.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)




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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Good night, ladies.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> BUDDHISM
> 
> Buddhism is a religion indigenous to the Indian subcontinent that encompasses a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices largely based on teachings attributed to Siddhartha Gautama, who is commonly known as the Buddha, meaning "the awakened one". The Buddha lived and taught in the eastern part of the Indian subcontinent sometime between the 6th and 4th centuries BCE.[1] He is recognized by Buddhists as an awakened or enlightened teacher who shared his insights to help sentient beings end their suffering (dukkha) through the elimination of ignorance (avidyā) by way of understanding and the seeing of dependent origination (pratītyasamutpāda) and the elimination of desire (taṇhā), and thus the attainment of the cessation of all suffering, known as the sublime state of nirvāņa.[2]
> Two major branches of Buddhism are generally recognized: Theravada ("The School of the Elders") and Mahayana ("The Great Vehicle"). Theravada has a widespread following in Sri Lanka and Southeast Asia (Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar etc.). Mahayana is found throughout East Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan etc.) and includes the traditions of Pure Land, Zen, Nichiren Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, Shingon, and Tiantai (Tendai). In some classifications, Vajrayanapracticed mainly in Tibet and Mongolia, and adjacent parts of China and Russiais recognized as a third branch, while others classify it as a part of Mahayana.
> ...


Than you for a concise outline. I follow Tibetan Buddhism whereas my late husband followed the Theravada tradition, in particular the forest hermitage tradition of Aghan Cha, a thai monk. He ordained as a monk after our divorce.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

P AUL WALDMAN SEPTEMBER 19, 2013
My Shutdown Lament

I have a problem. My job is to keep up with the world of politics and then write
commentary, explanations, and analysis that readers will find interesting,
entertaining, or informative. Sometimes that involves big-picture looks at policy
issues, sometimes it involves making pretty pictures (look hereI made maps!),
but much of the time, it's about giving some kind of novel perspective on the
things that are happening today, this week, or this month. I try very hard to
always add something, to not just repeat what everybody else is saying but to
offer something different, so that people who read this blog will come away
feeling they understand the world just a little bit better. Perhaps I don't always
succeed, and you may or may not get value out of any particular thing I've
written. But what do you do when the news turns into some kind of hellish
version of Groundhog Day, repeating the same abysmal scenario over and over,
in which even the happy ending doesn't involve finding true love and better
understanding of yourself and your role in the world like Bill Murray did, but at
best a return to the status quo ante of mindless political squabbles and unsolved
problems?

Is this nightmare ever going to end, so we can go back to a
political world that's just silly and frustrating the way it used to
be?

What, then, can I add about the latest twist in the pending government
shutdown? How many different ways are there to say that the Tea Party
Republicans are both crazy and stupid? How often can you point out that John
Boehner is pathetically weak, quite possibly the most ineffectual Speaker in the
history of the House of Representatives? How many times can you remind people
of all the awful things that would happen if the government shuts down and/or
we don't raise the debt ceiling? How many times can you scream at Republicans
that they are never, ever, ever going to repeal the Affordable Care Act so they
should just give it the hell up already? How many times can you cry that this
would be an insane way to run a junior-high student council, much less the
government of the mightiest nation on earth?
I don't know the answer. But the latest twist is that Boehner has surrendered to what E.J. Dionne appropriately calls the "kamikaze caucus" by announcing that the House will vote only on a threemonth
continuing resolution that funds the government but defunds Obamacare, and then send it to the
Senate for its inevitable defeat. When Ted Cruz acknowledged that it would indeed die in the Senate, even he was condemned from the right for his traitorous toe-dip into the waters of reality. Ted Cruz! What can you even say about that? It's like the Cultural Revolution
over there.

So this whole thing tumbles toward a shutdown, which will only be averted (or
ended, once it begins) by Boehner allowing a vote on a CR that includes neither a
defunding of Obamacare, nor a declaration that Santa Claus should give every
member of Congress an XBox this year, nor an initiative to expand trade
relations with Narnia. And then we'll do it all again a couple of weeks later on
the debt ceiling. I suppose that one day our politics will no longer be gripped by
this madness. But from here it looks like we're trapped in this nightmare
forever.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

*The Obamacare Is Falling! The Obamacare
Is Falling!*
There are a lot of things being said about the Affordable Care Act.
Here are the reasons you shouldn't believe any of it.

As we approach the full implementation of the Affordable Care Act at the end of
the year, confusion still reigns. Most Americans don't understand what the ACA
does or how it works, which is perhaps understandable. It is, after all, an
exceedingly complex law, and from even before it passed there was an
aggressive and well-funded campaign of misinformation meant to confuse and
deceive Americans about it, a campaign that continues to this day and shows no
sign of abating. To undo uncertainty and banish befuddlement, we offer
answers to a few questions you might have about Obamacare.
What's happening when?
The next important date is October 1, when open enrollment for insurance plans
on the new exchanges begins. Those who sign up will begin their new insurance
on January 1, when the rest of the high-profile components of the law take
effect. The individual mandate, requiring everyone to carry insurance or pay a
fine, takes effect, as does the rule forbidding insurance companies from denying
anyone coverage (or charging them exorbitant premiums) because of preexisting
conditions. In fact, after January 1 the entire notion of the "pre-existing
condition" will become nothing but a historical curiosity, a feature of the dark
past we've moved beyond. Insurance companies will also be forbidden from
imposing annual limits on what people are covered for (an accompanying ban
on lifetime limits is already in effect). Tax credits for small businesses to offer
their employees insurance will be expanded, and millions of low-income
Americans will be eligible to be covered through Medicaid. While we talk about
January 1, 2014 as the date of full implementation, dozens of provisions have
already gone into effect, from free preventive care to expanded coverage for
young adults to the closing of the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole"

How many states are expanding Medicaid?

There is probably no provision of the ACA that will have a more immediate and
profound impact on as many people's lives as the expansion of Medicaid. In the
current system, each state determines how poor you have to be to become
eligible for the joint federal-state program, but under the ACA anyone with an
income up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level would be eligible.
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court declared that states could refuse to accept the
expansion, and many states dominated by Republicans couldn't wait to say "no"
to Barack Obama and to their own poor citizens who desperately need
insurance, even though the federal government will be picking up almost all of
the tab.
The cruel irony is that many of the states refusing the expansion are those that
have the largest proportion of poor people who could benefit, and are already
the stingiest with Medicaid eligibility. For instance, in Texas, a working adult
with children can't be covered in Medicaid if her income exceeds 25 percent of
the poverty level. So a single mother with three children who makes over $5,888
a year is considered too wealthy to get Medicaid. In Alabama it's 23 percent; in
Louisiana it's 24 percent. These are all states with high rates of poverty, and
states where the Republican governors and legislatures have refused to accept
the money the federal government is offering to expand Medicaid. In these
states, if you're a middle-income person, you'll be able to get government
subsidies through the new health-care exchanges, but if you're poor but not
quite desperately poor enough to fall below the Scroogian eligibility limits, you'll
get no help at all. These states have essentially cut off their noses to spite Barack
Obama's face, giving up billions in federal money, a reduction in uncompensated
care they end up paying for, and a healthier and more productive populace, all
so they can give the finger to the President.
When you look at map of which states are accepting the Medicaid expansion,
with just a few exceptions it looks a lot like an electoral college map, with
Republican states saying no and Democratic states saying yes

In just the last few weeks, Michigan has decided to accept the expansion, and
Pennsylvania has proposed to take the federal money but use it to give lowincome
citizens private insurance (the Department of Health and Human
Services has to approve such a plan). That will bring the total to 25 states plus
the District of Columbia accepting the expansion, with another four (Indiana,
Tennessee, Ohio, and New Hampshire) still debating the issue. After the
Supreme Court's decision, many predicted that even Republican-dominated
states would find the money the government is offering too good to pass up. So
far it hasn't happened, meaning millions of poor Americans who live Republican
states are out of luck. And you'll be shocked to learn that the poor in these states,
mostly in the South, are disproportionately black.

What's up with the exchanges?

Setting up a health-care exchange requires time, effort, and some minimal level
of concern for seeing your citizens be able to take advantage of the ACA's
benefits. So it isn't surprising that nearly all the Republican states that said no to
the Medicaid expansion also didn't choose to bother setting up their own
exchange. In the end, 17 states (including D.C.) decided to do it themselves.
Another nine are partnering with the federal government on an exchange,
leaving 25 states that have left the process entirely to the federal government.
This certainly makes HHS's job harder, but no one yet knows how well those
federally-run exchanges will work. All of those 25 have Republican governors,
legislatures, or in most cases, both.

One potential pitfall is that in many of those Republican-run states, the state
government is taking active steps to sabotage the exchanges, particularly by
making the work of the "navigators" as difficult as possible. These are local
groups, like universities, hospitals, churches, and the like, who have gotten
federal grants and training to help people find their way through the process of
getting insurance through the exchange. For example, Georgia is forcing
navigators to get special state licenses (the Republican state insurance
commissioner pledged to do "everything in our power to be an obstructionist");
Florida has banned them from the grounds of state health facilities. It remains to
be seen just how much of an impact the sabotage efforts will have.

Are my premiums going to go up?

The answer to that question can be summed up as 1) It's complicated, and 2) It
depends. If like most people you get insurance through your employer (or your
spouse's), things probably won't change for you. Your premiums have risen
steadily in recent years, and in the short term, they'll probably continue to rise.
Nevertheless, recent data show a dramatic slowdown in the rate of increase.
Last year, premiums rose by 4 percent, half of the 8 percent per year average of
the last decade. That mirrors a slowdown in overall health spending. In other
words, that curve the ACA was designed to bend is already bending.
If you're now on the individual market (or uninsured) and you'll be buying
insurance on the exchanges, how much you pay will depend on how old you are,
where you live, what your income is, and what plan you choose. If you make less
than 400 percent of the poverty level you'll get a subsidy so that your premium
doesn't rise above a certain percentage of your income; if you want to try to
figure out now what it would be, you can read this report to get an idea of what
you might pay. While we can't make any sweeping statements that apply to
everybody, there will certainly be a lot of people who find that insurance is more
affordable than they thought. On Monday, the Department of Health and
Human Services released a report showing that because of the subsidies, 6.4
million people would be able to buy insurance through the exchanges for less
than $100 a month. As one Rand Corporation study concluded, "after accounting
for tax credits, average out-of-pocket premium spending in the nongroup market
is estimated to decline or remain unchanged." While there are some people who
could pay more than they do nowsay, young people who make too much to
qualify for subsidies, used to have bare-bones insurance, and are now getting
one of the more comprehensive plans available through an exchangeoverall it
doesn't appear that the threats of "rate shock" will be borne out.

How many people are going to get insurance who didn't
have it before?

This is also a difficult question to answer precisely, because there are a few
unknowns. First, over time more states could accept the Medicaid expansion,
increasing the number of newly insured people. Second, the fines for those who
choose not to carry insurance are quite small, so some people (particularly the
young, who are immortal and never get sick) could decide that it's better to pay a
fine that costs less than insurance does, but nobody knows how many of them
will. Third, each state will be doing its own outreach to sign people up for the
exchanges and for Medicaid; some will inevitably do a better job than others.
All of those variables make precise estimates difficult. One National Bureau of
Economic Research experiment to see how uninsured people respond to the cost
of getting covered concluded that "75 percent of the uninsured are projected to
enroll, implying that 39 million individuals would gain coverage as a result of the
law." The Congressional Budget Office, on the other hand, projects that the ACA
will reduce the ranks of the uninsured by 25 million. One thing we can say is
that though tens of millions will probably become newly insured, there will still
be millions of uninsured people in America. One of the main tasks in coming
years will be getting that number as close to zero as we can.

Are there going to be terrible effects on the economy?

If you've been paying attention to health-care news, you've probably seen stories
featuring an employer who has 49 employees and says he'd love to hire more
people, but since Obamacare's employer mandate kicks in at 50 employees and
he'd have to offer health coverage if he hired anybody else, he won't do it. It's
quite remarkable how reporters always seem to find that business with just
under 50 employees (my suspicion is that the National Federation of
Independent Business, a conservative small-business group, finds them, recruits
them, and passes them along to journalists). But the truth is that they're
extremely rare. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 93 percent of
companies that size already offer health benefits, even before the law's
requirements kick in. And the administration has delayed the employer
mandate by a year anyway.

Another charge is that employers everywhere are cutting employees' hours
below 30 per week, the level at which the mandate will eventually kick in, so
they don't qualify as full-time. While there are certainly employers who have
done this, there's little evidence it's happening on a large scale. The number of
workers just below that 30-hour cutoff is tiny to begin with and didn't increase
as the original date for the mandate approached. If employers were rushing to
cut workers' hours, those numbers would be large and growing; instead, the
opposite is true.
You could condemn an employer who figures out a way to avoid giving her
workers health benefits, even if not all of them are as repulsive as John
Schnatter, the CEO of Papa John's, who whined that if he had to give his
employees health coverage it could raise the price of a pizza by as much as a
shocking 14 cents. But one of the main things the ACA was meant to accomplish
was to make those employer decisions less damaging to employees. "Job lock,"
where you're forced to keep a job you'd rather leave in order to hold on to your
insurance, will be a thing of the past. And now that affordable insurance will be
available to anyone regardless of whether they've been sick before, employers
can decide to drop insurance without necessarily hurting their employees.
To see how, consider this story. Last week, Trader Joe's announced that it would
no longer be offering coverage for its employees who work less than 30 hours per
week. Instead, it will give them $500 and send them to the exchanges. This
seemed surprising, since Trader Joe's is known for being an employee-friendly
company. But as the company argues pretty persuasively, employees at that
level are likely to get a better deal through an exchange than through their
company policy when subsidies are factored in (and of course, the company will
save money). We might see this pattern repeated with other employers. But
would that be a bad thing? If an employee gets equivalent coverage for less
money on an exchange, then they've effectively gotten a raise. Companies save
money, which allows them to either raise salaries or hire more people. On the
other hand, there is a cost to the federal budget of more people getting subsidies,
but that may be a cost we're willing to pay. It may be some time before we know
how common an occurrence this is and what effect it's having on the economy
and the budget.

Is Obamacare going to make doctors quiz me about who
I'm sleeping with?

Here's a good tip: if you read a story with a crazy new allegation about what the
Affordable Care Act is going to do to you, there's a good chance two things are
true. First, it's false. Second, Betsy McCaughey probably had something to do
with it. She's the woman who gave us "death panels," and her latest bit of crazy
is to try to convince you that because of Obamacare, doctors are suddenly being
forced to ask you inappropriate questions about your sex life (this is a pattern
you'll become familiar with: she takes an ordinary feature of health care, like
the fact that questions about sex are standard practice when taking a medical
history, and makes it sound both sinister and a product of Obamacare). You can
decide whether this kind of thing is just silly or pernicious and generally
despicable (I lean toward the latter), but don't be surprised if we see a whole
round of new allegations like this one. Conservatives failed to stop the ACA from
being passed into law, then failed to get it overturned in the Supreme Court,
then failed to win the election that would have allowed them to repeal it. They
will almost certainly get increasingly desperate after January 1st when the law
is implemented and we don't all suddenly find ourselves standing in breadlines
wearing gray sackcloth, our spirits broken by the socialist hellhole into which
we've descended. So who knows what they'll come up with.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Breaking news

11, Including Child, 3, Shot In Chicago Park


Updated: 02:09:44 PM, Fri 20 September 2013 Australia/Perth
CHICAGO (AP)  Eleven people, including a 3-year-old child, were injured late Thursday when someone opened fire on people in a park located in Chicago's Back of the Yards neighborhood.
Chicago Fire Department officials said the child was in critical condition. Two other victims were also in critical condition, officials said.
Officer Amina Greer said the shooting occurred shortly after 10 p.m. Thursday. According to Greer, at least 10 ambulances responded to the scene, transporting victims to several area hospitals.
A witness, Julian Harris, told the Chicago Sun-Times that dreadlocked men fired at him from a gray sedan before turning toward Cornell Square Park and firing at people in the area. He said his 3-year-old nephew was wounded in the cheek.
"They hit the light pole next to me, but I ducked down and ran into the house," he said. "They've been coming round here looking for people to shoot every night, just gang-banging stuff. It's what they do."
Authorities said no one had been taken into custody in connection with the shooting.
Francis John, 70, said she was in her apartment when the shooting occurred. She said went down to see what was going on and "a lot of youngsters were running scared." She said she was surprised by what had happened, saying she has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years.
She told the Sun-Times there hasn't been much gun violence in the neighborhood in recent years, adding the neighborhood went from good to bad 10 years ago, to better recently.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

An amazing transformation during tonight's full moon -- the local libs have morphed into the equivalent of immature teenage boys on an a panty raid. My apologies to teenage boys


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> An amazing transformation during tonight's full moon -- the local libs have morphed into the equivalent of immature teenage boys on an a panty raid. My apologies to teenage boys


I know. Immature teenage boys have more class


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Did I miss something?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

According to the left Patriots are fixated on Benghazi and to them the four Americans slaughtered on American soil are not important. To validate this thought on the left, the Dems on the panel investigating Benghazi did not have the courage to listen to the parents of the murdered sons


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> President Barack Obama says the gun lobby and its allies used lies and distortion to thwart legislation in the US Senate that would have expanded background checks for firearms purchases.
> Senators voted 54-46, with 60 needed to adopt the measure, as a handful of Democrats joined most Republicans in opposition. The vote was the most significant on gun control in 20 years and countered 90 per cent public support of mandatory background checks.
> The gun lobby and its allies wilfully lied about the bill.
> Barack Obama
> ...


Considering the lies and deceptive actions of obama and this administration, I don't believe anything they say.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Have you tried hot milk? I don't like the taste of hot milk, so I don't drink it, but both my mom and 1 of my aunts have a cup before bed and it helps them. If they wake up during the night, they microwave a half cup of milk.


No have not, just doesn't sound right at least to me. thinking of having green tea or perhaps a little glass of wine. Shall tell you what happens as I am not a person who drinks a lot. Daughter in laws father makes his own wine. At Christmas had a glass then proceed to fall asleep. Not a good drinker I think, but he makes good wine just one glass and I was ready for bed. :roll:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> super heros just aren't good hubby material


No they are not to much work while they are out saving the world. 
Think best to have them save the world and not have to clean up after them. :lol: :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

No caffeine for me. I have a cup of decaf tea before bed. I'm like you, Yarnie - one glass of wine and I'm out. I'm pretty much a tea-totaler just because I don't like booze! I don't think it's wrong, I just don't like it. Sometimes I wish I did!!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> No caffeine for me. I have a cup of decaf tea before bed. I'm like you, Yarnie - one glass of wine and I'm out. I'm pretty much a tea-totaler just because I don't like booze! I don't think it's wrong, I just don't like it. Sometimes I wish I did!!!


Me either Bonnie, just not into drinking. But may have to use it to get some sleep when I can't sleep which causes sleep during day and sleep is important, so must sleep or I will be sleepy if I don't sleep. :XD: :shock:


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> According to the left Patriots are fixated on Benghazi and to them the four Americans slaughtered on American soil are not important. To validate this thought on the left, the Dems on the panel investigating Benghazi did not have the courage to listen to the parents of the murdered sons


Exactly, and you won't hear about the Dims cowardly actions on the mainstream media, and the uninformed will continue their lives as the uninformed.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

New's alert for all who are alert.

Bump her kins dance held Sat was a hit. I do mean hit. Bump her kins, hubby at it again waxing dance excercise floor. 
Theme song Slip Sliding Away. All who attend seem to be having a good time. If not a bumping good time.

Need to mention Photo ops will be done by Wet Can Knutting, and R U knuts. Knot Going There is busy with the Decorating shop, but will fill in when she can.

Must mention there will be a retake of senior pixs. You ladies must have retakes why becuse half had their eyes closed, 3/4's had their mouth open. One who shall be nameless with the updo has a half of do missing on photo. Please please uno updo. Knots will be doing the photos again. Soon as she finds the camera, seem she lost it in between Polka dots.

The Righter's Village will be having it's fall fesitval next month. Knots will be doing the decorating, orange Polka dots on black back ground. 
Also I would appreciate not hearing all you ladys yelling Hey Hey Hey all of the time. I said hay you know Hay stacks not Hey Hey Hey. need Pumpkins too, and don't roll them down the main street if it's to big to carry it is too big and rolling is prohibited in villiage. 

Seem have had good comments on kitchen sink, and nice pixie Wet can knutty and sorry not can do paste and print you do now that left overs are a no no.

All for now,and to those who complain about spelling get over it, I only post the news on here, not left overs.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> My first slow cooker arrived today - now I just need to decide what to make first.


Yeah now have fun report first recipe used. :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Me either Bonnie, just not into drinking. But may have to use it to get some sleep when I can't sleep which causes sleep during day and sleep is important, so must sleep or I will be sleepy if I don't sleep. :XD: :shock:


Ditto.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> According to the left Patriots are fixated on Benghazi and to them the four Americans slaughtered on American soil are not important. To validate this thought on the left, the Dems on the panel investigating Benghazi did not have the courage to listen to the parents of the murdered sons


I would think that shunning grieving family members is an insult to the family and detracts from the sacrifices family makes while their loved ones are in service to their country


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> No have not, just doesn't sound right at least to me. thinking of having green tea or perhaps a little glass of wine. Shall tell you what happens as I am not a person who drinks a lot. Daughter in laws father makes his own wine. At Christmas had a glass then proceed to fall asleep. Not a good drinker I think, but he makes good wine just one glass and I was ready for bed. :roll:


That sounds like a good solution Yarnie. When my grandmother went into a nursing home she had a prescription for a little shot of brandy at bedtime - it helped her sleep without pills. The prescription was sort of a family joke, but it's true - it meant the brandy could be bought without all the extra duties & taxes on liquor. The nurses kept it with all the other meds.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I would think that shunning grieving family members is an insult to the family and detracts from the sacrifices family makes while their loved ones are in service to their country


You are exactly correct. The Dems were despicable to not be in attendance to hear from the murdered men's family members.

The family members have been told nothing about what happened to their sons that fatal day.

More importantly, under Obama's 'stand down order' this is the FIRST time in American history when military or special opps service members were not allowed, in fact, ordered, _not to_ go to either assist or retrieve their fellow service members.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> No caffeine for me. I have a cup of decaf tea before bed. I'm like you, Yarnie - one glass of wine and I'm out. I'm pretty much a tea-totaler just because I don't like booze! I don't think it's wrong, I just don't like it. Sometimes I wish I did!!!


Do you like peppermint tea? It helps some people to relax and sleep better.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Tax Breaks for the Rich and Heart breaks for our children.
> 39Million taken away for so desperately needed Food Stamps. Hail to the Republicans.


39 B I L L I O N that is.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> New's alert for all who are alert.
> 
> Bump her kins dance held Sat was a hit. I do mean hit. Bump her kins, hubby at it again waxing dance excercise floor.
> Theme song Slip Sliding Away. All who attend seem to be having a good time. If not a bumping good time.
> ...


Dance photos coming up soon - here we are getting ready for fall festival.

Post all your favourite pumpkin recipes and our dedicated advertising manager, R U Knuts will create a beautiful cookbook to raise funds to keep the Right Village News presses running.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Yeah now have fun report first recipe used. :thumbup:


Does anyone have a pumpkin recipe for slow cooker?? Need to get going on Righter Village Cookbook


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Does anyone have a pumpkin recipe for slow cooker?? Need to get going on Righter Village Cookbook


Good photos now need Adver.

Finial someone got it Hay not hey. :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Does anyone have a pumpkin recipe for slow cooker?? Need to get going on Righter Village Cookbook


No but yes to cookbook good one we do need the fall and winter time recipes.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Looks like the Ice Cream Bandits fixed their wigs and snuck into the dance


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cut up all the tomatoes have gotten in and making home made spaghetti sauce, would use slow cooker but as I do it by taste have it on back burner of stove. Always seem to need a bit more of spices and garlic ect. By tonight it will taste way I want it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Looks like the Ice Cream Bandits fixed their wigs and snuck into the dance


wow they are looking better must be on diet after all the ice cream they have consumed. Nice truck too. Wonder who they lifted that from.

Must need extra money to get to the Righters Village.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Cut up all the tomatoes have gotten in and making home made spaghetti sauce, would use slow cooker but as I do it by taste have it on back burner of stove. Always seem to need a bit more of spices and garlic ect. By tonight it will taste way I want it.


I make my tomato sauce the same way - have never been able to write out the recipe. I like to add some mushrooms and zucchini too


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Bump her kins Dance early edition specials - take the wax away from hubby before next dance please


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Bump her kins Dance early edition specials - take the wax away from hubby before next dance please


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I make my tomato sauce the same way - have never been able to write out the recipe. I like to add some mushrooms and zucchini too


Isn't that the only way to make it. I am letting tomatoescook down right now. I found a new spice at a shop in Milwaukee. It is dried tomato paste and wow it is nice as it thicken sauce right up. Only have to use a bit too.

my friend from New York comes to visit and make several pans of Lasagna to freeze she does it by taste too. She is a true Italian. Last time she came we went to got Italian sauage. She did not like what they had. Then told the butcher how to make it. I loved it, sauce is different in the midwest, get to mild. At least her and I think so.

Just intersting side note at least it was to me, before she married her last name was Sinatra. She was a cousin of Sinatra true Italian. :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Have you ever use Porcini Mushrooms in your sauce? they come dried and dirty you have to rinse them as dirty than soak them . I just did some and put in sauce. Anchiovies, have you ever put them in sauce? Just have not done that yet.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bump her kins Dance early edition specials - take the wax away from hubby before next dance please


Good shots lady, proof is shown there, maybe hubby will start waxing something else.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

you sure got the good shots of what happen at dance and the festival. Great job.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> This Senator is on the correct path (I'm keeping my eye on him. I do worry about his voice and look but sure do love his words).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed she "forgot" to mention that the one person this committee did NOT interview was Hillary Clinton. What a joke.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> wow they are looking better must be on diet after all the ice cream they have consumed. Nice truck too. Wonder who they lifted that from.
> 
> Must need extra money to get to the Righters Village.


I'm the one on the right.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Random shooting of Australian expat reignites US gun control debate
> ELEANOR HALL: Now to the apparently random shooting of a young Australian living in the United States which has shattered his family and again raises the question of gun control.
> 
> 22-year-old Chris Lane was out jogging in the state of Oklahoma when three teenagers followed him in a car and shot him in the back as Eliza Harvey reports.
> ...


No amount of gun regulation would have stopped this loss of life. These teenagers were hell bent on killing a white person. This was a race crime. This young man was the first one to be alone and pose no threat to them. They reportedly were bored and looking for something to do. They by no means obtained the gun legally, so any regulation would be lost on them. It is time to look to other areas instead of just passing new laws that won't be enforced. We need to focus on the violence and its reasons first, IMO.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Households with guns are dangerous.
> 
> In these households, it is more likely that a member of the family will die from a gun-related death than that the gun will be used to kill an intruder. See the study here:
> http://aje.Oxfordjournals.Org/content/160/10/929.Full
> And for those who say that criminals will still commit crimes, gun control laws will make purchasing deadly weapons harder, thereby deterring criminals.


They will only be more difficult for those that go through lawful processes of obtaining them. Criminals will not be deterred because they do not care about the law and will obtain their weapons from an alternative route. It is naive to believe that criminals will be deterred if they can't obtain a gun legally.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Did I miss something?


No, they just decided to break their vow yet again. Nothing new, typical liberal behavior. Scroll through and ignore.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No amount of gun regulation would have stopped this loss of life. These teenagers were hell bent on killing a white person. This was a race crime. This young man was the first one to be alone and pose no threat to them. They reportedly were bored and looking for something to do. They by no means obtained the gun legally, so any regulation would be lost on them. It is time to look to other areas instead of just passing new laws that won't be enforced. We need to focus on the violence and its reasons first, IMO.


Absolutely!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No, they just decided to break their vow yet again. Nothing new, typical liberal behavior. Scroll through and ignore.


And it was so very easy to do. I did read some of it though. I needed the laughs.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> 39 B I L L I O N that is.


The cuts apply to adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS. Those WITH CHILDREN will not be affected. Get your facts straight.

Not one Democrat in the House voted for work programs for recipients on food stamps. How surprising is that!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Looks like the Ice Cream Bandits fixed their wigs and snuck into the dance


Love it!!!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> wow they are looking better must be on diet after all the ice cream they have consumed. Nice truck too. Wonder who they lifted that from.
> 
> Must need extra money to get to the Righters Village.


No diet required. Being on the run constantly has fat burning metabolism at its peak. Our new ride was donated (not lifted) by a fellow ice cream lover who understands the importance of the proper get-a-way vehicle.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm the one on the right.


Dare I say it? Then I'm on the left.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are exactly correct. The Dems were despicable to not be in attendance to hear from the murdered men's family members.
> 
> The family members have been told nothing about what happened to their sons that fatal day.
> 
> More importantly, under Obama's 'stand down order' this is the FIRST time in American history when military or special opps service members were not allowed, in fact, ordered, _not to_ go to either assist or retrieve their fellow service members.


It's hard to imagine that we have such rude boobs in Congress. Isn't there some kind of protocol for this situation.? Well, it's Congress - maybe it's not so hard to imagine. Do the Dems approve of this - I guess so. From what I've seen, they have little sensitivity to the feelings of others.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Dare I say it? Then I'm on the left.


No no you are on the right. Facing picture, there is just empty space on the left. you both are on the right.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Looks like the Ice Cream Bandits fixed their wigs and snuck into the dance


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Cut up all the tomatoes have gotten in and making home made spaghetti sauce, would use slow cooker but as I do it by taste have it on back burner of stove. Always seem to need a bit more of spices and garlic ect. By tonight it will taste way I want it.


That sounds delicious! My mother-in-law made dellicious spaghetti sauce. I think it's because she sat in the kitchen with it all day, reading and stirring. I made it once with fresh tomoatoes - so good! I could really tell a difference.

Enjoy!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bump her kins Dance early edition specials - take the wax away from hubby before next dance please


Great photos!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Slip slidin' awaaaaaayyy :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I noticed she "forgot" to mention that the one person this committee did NOT interview was Hillary Clinton. What a joke.


Hillary and all her "kind" are so corrupt it makes me sick.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm the one on the right.


Yes, and I'm on the left - unusual for me, but I'm left-handed, so it's okay. We were so lucky to have those outfits donated to us and then fit so well! Good thing our ice cream is low-cal!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The cuts apply to adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS. Those WITH CHILDREN will not be affected. Get your facts straight.
> 
> Not one Democrat in the House voted for work programs for recipients on food stamps. How surprising is that!


Not surprising at all.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No no you are on the right. Facing picture, there is just empty space on the left. you both are on the right.


Oh - thank goodness. Because I just posted that I am on the left. I'm so glad that Han and Thumpbunny are on the right. Just goes to show you - if you play your cards right, two people can occupy the same space and the same time!


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> /


None of these included American deaths. Looks like Bush did things right.

See the rolling link for details:

http://thenewstalkers.com/m/discussion?id=6450411%3ATopic%3A432709


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Susan,

If Buddhism makes you happy, that's fine. Personally, I am not interested in your cult beliefs. Copying huge segments from the Web is boring and flagrantly abusive of this MP site. I will be protesting.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Susan,
> 
> If Buddhism makes you happy, that's fine. Personally, I am not interested in your cult beliefs. Copying huge segments from the Web is boring and flagrantly abusive of this MP site. I will be protesting.


As a Buddhist I must strongly protest about you calling Buddhism a cult. Are you aware of the fact that Buddhism predates Christianity by over 500 years. There was also a strong exchange of view and ideas between Buddhism and Christianity. Buddhist scholars travelled to the Middle East right from the early days of Buddhism. Buddhism is regarded as one of the world's major religions.

You have just insulted me and many other people in the world by referring to Buddhism as a cult and I think you should apologise please.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> As a Buddhist I must strongly protest about you calling Buddhism a cult. Are you aware of the fact that Buddhism predates Christianity by over 500 years. There was also a strong exchange of view and ideas between Buddhism and Christianity. Buddhist scholars travelled to the Middle East right from the early days of Buddhism. Buddhism is regarded as one of the world's major religions.
> 
> You have just insulted me and many other people in the world by referring to Buddhism as a cult and I think you should apologise please.


I realize Buddhism is a major religion in the world, but to me it is a cult. Age doesn't create truth or validate Buddhism.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I realize Buddhism is a major religion in the world, but to me it is a cult. Age doesn't create truth or validate Buddhism.


you are indeed extremely insulting. Your ignorance is insulting to one of the worlds major religions and religious figures. Be brave enough to admit you mistake when you call Buddhism a cult.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> As a Buddhist I must strongly protest about you calling Buddhism a cult. Are you aware of the fact that Buddhism predates Christianity by over 500 years. There was also a strong exchange of view and ideas between Buddhism and Christianity. Buddhist scholars travelled to the Middle East right from the early days of Buddhism. Buddhism is regarded as one of the world's major religions.
> 
> You have just insulted me and many other people in the world by referring to Buddhism as a cult and I think you should apologise please.


No apology is needed nor should be expected anymore than apologies are given for the hateful things said to us by the liberals about Christianity. Furthermore, I doubt the truthfulness in your stating you are buddhist and are doing so for the expressed purpose of creating trouble.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No apology is needed nor should be expected anymore than apologies are given for the hateful things said to us by the liberals about Christianity. Furthermore, I doubt the truthfulness in your stating you are buddhist and are doing so for the expressed purpose of creating trouble.


Thank you for calling me a liar, that is truly not very nice of you. I am a Buddhist and have been one for decades. When I was living with my late husband we ran a Buddhist study and meditation centre. HE ordained as a monk after our divorce. I defended my religion, I am not posting to cause trouble, but me thinks you are posting to cause pain and upset.

yes, I did post messages yesterday relating to christianity, but my purpose was to show that there are other religions besides christianity. I took you to task for pushing your religion, something I have not done.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No apology is needed nor should be expected anymore than apologies are given for the hateful things said to us by the liberals about Christianity. Furthermore, I doubt the truthfulness in your stating you are buddhist and are doing so for the expressed purpose of creating trouble.


I have just read my posts of yesterday's date and cannot see where I have said any hateful comments about your religion and Christianity.

Buddhism is not a cult, it is one of the world's major religions.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just read my posts of yesterday's date and cannot see where I have said any hateful comments about your religion and Christianity.
> 
> Buddhism is not a cult, it is one of the world's major religions.


Like any other religion there are subgroups that are cults and sometimes down right dangerous. I have tried to understand Buddhism, and ask my friend many questions. But it is so different from Catholicism that I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Buddhas. But my friend is one of the most spiritual person I know and would do anything for anyone. I respect him for living his life (and his wife and daughter) in such a calm way.

So I can only 'judge' a person by their actions. So if they act cultist and hurt people that is what I will judge. But a true Buddhist is a very spiritual person, and I respect that.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Full Definition of CULT
> 
> 1: formal religious veneration : worship
> 
> ...


As the above does not describe Buddhism there is no foundation in calling it a cult. We do not worship Buddha, we aim to follow his example. Buddhism is not considered unorthodox by other religions or religious leaders. Buddhism does not have a system for the cure of disease based on doctrine. great devotion to a person? Perhaps that could also be applied to Christianity with is devotion to the saints. Also to Islam with their devotion to the Prophet. Also devotion to a book, being regarded as a literary fad? perhaps you could apply this criteria to those who study the Bible,the Koran or the Torah?

I honestly believe you are calling Buddhism a cult because you do not know anything about it, apart from what unlearned people have spoken.

Buddhism is not a cult. if you aply the word cult to Buddhism you must als apply the wor to many other religions.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Isn't that the only way to make it. I am letting tomatoescook down right now. I found a new spice at a shop in Milwaukee. It is dried tomato paste and wow it is nice as it thicken sauce right up. Only have to use a bit too.
> 
> my friend from New York comes to visit and make several pans of Lasagna to freeze she does it by taste too. She is a true Italian. Last time she came we went to got Italian sauage. She did not like what they had. Then told the butcher how to make it. I loved it, sauce is different in the midwest, get to mild. At least her and I think so.
> 
> Just intersting side note at least it was to me, before she married her last name was Sinatra. She was a cousin of Sinatra true Italian. :thumbup:


What's the name of your tomato paste spice? I'd like to look for here. Sounds like you and your friend cook up a real storm when she comes to visit. She sure had a famous last name


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Have you ever use Porcini Mushrooms in your sauce? they come dried and dirty you have to rinse them as dirty than soak them . I just did some and put in sauce. Anchiovies, have you ever put them in sauce? Just have not done that yet.


Have never added porcini mushroom or anchovies to my sauce; how did it turn out? Would you use them again? I have added shrimp or clams to the sauce and that was yummy.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Like any other religion there are subgroups that are cults and sometimes down right dangerous. I have tried to understand Buddhism, and ask my friend many questions. But it is so different from Catholicism that I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Buddhas. But my friend is one of the most spiritual person I know and would do anything for anyone. I respect him for living his life (and his wife and daughter) in such a calm way.
> 
> So I can only 'judge' a person by their actions. So if they act cultist and hurt people that is what I will judge. But a true Buddhist is a very spiritual person, and I respect that.


You may not be aware of the fact that my family background is Catholic. I was baptised a Catholic and spent all my school days at a convent. I know the Catholic religion. It is very different from Buddhism. The main differences being that Buddha said "I am not a God, do not look to me for divine intervention. Do not take my word as gospel but question everything I say." Karma is often difficult to understand, but if you think along the lines of Catholic sin, wages or payment for sin, the you may get an idea. Buddhism does not have the confessional, but neither do a many religions. bad Karma must be worked off not prayed away. The most difficult concept to understand is rebirth. My late husband had a struggle with this concept. Rebirth was a concept of early Christianity also. But Buddhist monks have a type of confessional when they must atone for their indiscretions to the Abbot and fellow monks. This applies only to the monks and the indiscretions are far more encompassing than the sins of the Catholic church.

The Redemptarist ( not sure of spelling) Monastery here in Perth allows the Monastery to be used for Buddhist study retreats. THey would not allow that if they believed Buddhism was a cult. A lot of people are familiar with the rituals of Tibetan Buddhism but Tibetan Buddhism retains much of the old Bohne (spelling?) religion. It is more a cultural thing. The Catholic church in Ireland is slightly different from the Catholic Church in Latin America. There are cultural differences there although the basic tenents are the same. The Catholic Church in Africa also has slight cultural differences. Buddhism displays cultural differences also.

When Pope John Paul 11 visited Perth in the 1980s he visited The Little Sisters of the Poor. My mother was given a seat in the front row and he stopped in front of her, shook her hand and spoke to her for several minutes. Although she lived and died a Catholic she also believed very strongly in rebirth. She spoke about this many times with priests who told her that many Catholics also believe in rebirth.

I hope you are not judging me. I hope you are not saying I am acting in a cultish manner. Some people say the Mormon church is a cult and I have heard many nasty things said about the Catholic church and how they worship idols when they pray in front of the statues. You and I know this is a complete misunderstanding. To call Buddhism a cult is the same misunderstanding. Buddhism has its roots in the eastern religious system, Hinduism. But I strongly believe in the old Hindu saying "the religion that is right for you at your present stage of development, is the religion that is right for you at your present stage of development". It is hard to grasp, but another Hindu saying may help. "finding the right religion for you is like taking a train journey to the top of a mountain and getting off the train before it descends dow the other side of the mountain. You board the train, there are other passengers on the train but pay no heed to them, they are on their own journey and do not have any influence over your personal journey. The train stops at many stations and people get on and off the train. When you believe the train has stopped at the station at the top of the mountain you get off the train, do not pay any attention to the other passengers on the train. The train journey is your search for enlightenment, the station is your choice of religion.

I started to question the Catholic church at a very early age, in primary school. I asked questions and the nuns and priests could not give me logical answers. Then I came across a very learned nun when I was about 10. And she told me to examine my mind and heart as to what I believed. She told me to follow my heart not what other people told me to believe. A few years later we moved and I was still enrolled at a Catholic school. The priests were the Franciscan Friars and I had discussions with them. They also told me to question what others told me to believe and to follow my heart. Hindus believe that when you are ready a teacher will appear. I have found this to be true. I had questions about Islam and suddenly a learned Muslim scholar moved close to where I was living. I had a similar experience with hinduism.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Like any other religion there are subgroups that are cults and sometimes down right dangerous. I have tried to understand Buddhism, and ask my friend many questions. But it is so different from Catholicism that I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Buddhas. But my friend is one of the most spiritual person I know and would do anything for anyone. I respect him for living his life (and his wife and daughter) in such a calm way.
> 
> So I can only 'judge' a person by their actions. So if they act cultist and hurt people that is what I will judge. But a true Buddhist is a very spiritual person, and I respect that.


My last post was very long but I hope you may see where my beliefs lie. If you have questions regarding Buddhism I would seek the advice of an understanding Catholic scholar who has an understanding of Buddhism. Not just the local priest as his knowledge may be judgemental. many Catholic scholars have a profound understanding of Buddhism.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I realize Buddhism is a major religion in the world, but to me it is a cult. Age doesn't create truth or validate Buddhism.


Knit crazy
that you think Buddhism is a cult indicates how ill read in that subject you are. My opinion of your Faith however is that you are a Chino.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> New's alert for all who are alert.
> 
> Knot Going There is busy with the Decorating shop, but will fill in when she can.
> 
> ...


I'm the busy, busy, busy one-arm paper hanger; could I get _some_ help here? Anyone, finally the wallpaper came in, and I've pasted up the first few pieces so we'll be decorated and purty for the Fall Festival.

Do you like it? Don't need any drinks looking at this!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> that you think Buddhism is a cult indicates how ill read in that subject you are. My opinion of your Faith however is that you are a Chino.


Just curious....what's a Chino?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm the busy, busy, busy one-arm paper hanger; could I get _some_ help here? Anyone, finally the wallpaper came in, and I've pasted up the first few pieces so we'll be decorated and purty for the Fall Festival.
> 
> Do you like it? Don't need any drinks looking at this!


Oh, my gosh!! It's beautiful - PERFECT!!! I'll help you hang it!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Looks like the Ice Cream Bandits fixed their wigs and snuck into the dance


Hilarious - my camera doesn't take funny pics! Way to go WCK.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> No, they just decided to break their vow yet again. Nothing new, typical liberal behavior. Scroll through and ignore.


Noooo kidding! They cannot post any intelligent discussions in their own words, so the Libs simply copy/paste anything they can get their hands on.

I did scroll past everything; didn't read or view an image either. Complete waste of time.

Ignore - that's the ticket!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> As the above does not describe Buddhism there is no foundation in calling it a cult. We do not worship Buddha, we aim to follow his example. Buddhism is not considered unorthodox by other religions or religious leaders. Buddhism does not have a system for the cure of disease based on doctrine. great devotion to a person? Perhaps that could also be applied to Christianity with is devotion to the saints. Also to Islam with their devotion to the Prophet. Also devotion to a book, being regarded as a literary fad? perhaps you could apply this criteria to those who study the Bible,the Koran or the Torah?
> 
> I honestly believe you are calling Buddhism a cult because you do not know anything about it, apart from what unlearned people have spoken.
> 
> Buddhism is not a cult. if you aply the word cult to Buddhism you must als apply the wor to many other religions.


The definition of "cult" has changed over the years. "The term 'cult' was originally used to describe a group of people who worshiped a deity. The term was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a deity and borrowed via the French 'culte' from Latin 'cultus' "worship", from the adjective 'cultus' "inhabited, cultivated, worshiped", derived from the verb 'colere' "care, cultivate."

In recent years the word has taken on a negative connotation. Several of your lib friends have used the term in a derogatary way when referring to Christianity. I don't know many Buddhists, but those I have met considered Buddhism a philosophy or way of life more so than a religion.

Like LTL, I tend to look at people's actions and intentions. I believe last nights' posts were a deliberate and planned disruption of this thread and were not intended to form a discussion or to educate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No apology is needed nor should be expected anymore than apologies are given for the hateful things said to us by the liberals about Christianity. Furthermore, I doubt the truthfulness in your stating you are buddhist and are doing so for the expressed purpose of creating trouble.


I've been informed EveMCooke = the former Martha French who was kicked off KP about six months ago for being so angry and cruel to others and creating trouble all over the site. Forewarned ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> As the above does not describe Buddhism there is no foundation in calling it a cult. We do not worship Buddha, we aim to follow his example. Buddhism is not considered unorthodox by other religions or religious leaders. Buddhism does not have a system for the cure of disease based on doctrine. great devotion to a person? Perhaps that could also be applied to Christianity with is devotion to the saints. Also to Islam with their devotion to the Prophet. Also devotion to a book, being regarded as a literary fad? perhaps you could apply this criteria to those who study the Bible,the Koran or the Torah?
> 
> I honestly believe you are calling Buddhism a cult because you do not know anything about it, apart from what unlearned people have spoken.
> 
> Buddhism is not a cult. if you aply the word cult to Buddhism you must als apply the wor to many other religions.


EveMCooke: you have offended, me, a Christian. I expect your apology immediately. You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. Also that is not of the Buddhist beliefs either.)

I've studied Buddhism and visited many countries throughout Asia. Buddhas statues are everywhere, worshiped in a materialistic way and are bowed and prayed to in reverence and in festivals, etc. Temples and Shrines put Buddha on a pedestal, receives prayers, donations of gold, gold leafing, flowers, foods, fruits, saki, etc., to the idol or facsimiles.

The Hindus act in much the same way in Thailand, etc., and Buddha is on a pedestal in most temples along with Vishnu. Many things, in fact, most things can be worshipped (cows, elephants, lotus flowers, Buddha, etc.) Trying going to the Emerald Temple and not notice the worshiping of statutes. Japan and China are much the same. Seven main Gods are worshipped.

I am not devoted to any saints as a Christian. I AM most certainly not devoted to a Book, or Fad as you stated.

I await your apology for all your insults. Karma is a xxxxx. Since you believe in Karma, it will come around to you for your post above and previous posts of ugliness. Your posts are not of the Buddhist ideals. No monk in any country would support your insulting posts to Christians or how you explained 'your' beliefs.

Here's some advice: go back to your Liberal friends and spread your beliefs amongst them. They are not wanted where they are not applied or falsely discussed. Many enjoy intelligent discussion on this thread, and you being the ring-leader last evening to post pure nonsense along with your Liberals buds has nothing to do with any peaceful religion. It was the work of fools.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh, my gosh!! It's beautiful - PERFECT!!! I'll help you hang it!


Good since your are left-handed we can work side-by-side.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm the busy, busy, busy one-arm paper hanger; could I get _some_ help here? Anyone, finally the wallpaper came in, and I've pasted up the first few pieces so we'll be decorated and purty for the Fall Festival.
> 
> Do you like it? Don't need any drinks looking at this!


 :thumbup: perfect choice for the Festival; I'll offer my arm too


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> chino -- from the Urban Dictionary
> 
> In Peru: man of asian origins. Can be used as a gentle insult or a tease (between friends and relatives for example). General way of describing a Peruvian with asian traits.
> 
> ...


Chino is a city in San Bernardino County, California. It's in the western end of the Riverside-San Bernardino area. Population 79,049. It's approximately 42 miles east of Los Angeles. I've never heard "Chino" used in a derogatory context before. Have heard "Chicano" used for many years though. Always something new isn't there.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Haven't been here in a long time, but it's reassuring to find that the TRIPE PAGES are alive and well, and people of all political orientations find this a place where they are welcome to trash each other. Congratulations, folks, and may you all continue in the same vein.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've been informed EveMCooke = the former Martha French who was kicked off KP about six months ago for being so angry and cruel to others and creating trouble all over the site. Forewarned ...


I am sorry but you have been badly misinformed here. I do not know who told you this, but I am not your Martha French.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EveMCooke: you have offended, me, a Christian. I expect your apology immediately. You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. Also that is not of the Buddhist beliefs either.)
> 
> I've studied Buddhism and visited many countries throughout Asia. Buddhas statues are everywhere, worshiped in a materialistic way and are bowed and prayed to in reverence and in festivals, etc. Temples and Shrines put Buddha on a pedestal, receives prayers, donations of gold, gold leafing, flowers, foods, fruits, saki, etc., to the idol or facsimiles.
> 
> ...


You are so sweet. But I am at a loss to understand you when you say "You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. " But I do not wish to get into a slanging match with people who may have visited sacred sites but not understood what they saw.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I am sorry but you have been badly misinformed here. I do not know who told you this, but I am not your Martha French.


EveMCooke
just give it a little time you will be Ingried too. Some of us have graduated to that rank already. There is a game being played by these folks attaching different names to anyone coming in. Must be an age thing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> just give it a little time you will be Ingried too. Some of us have graduated to that rank already. There is a game being played by these folks attaching different names to anyone coming in. Must be an age thing.


Cherf just can't accept that she has been found out.
Let's give her a magnifying glass and call her Sherlock.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> You are so sweet. But I am at a loss to understand you when you say "You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. " But I do not wish to get into a slanging match with people who may have visited sacred sites but not understood what they saw.


EveMCooke
you see some people travel simply to collect Postcards to impress others, Culture is not even secondary.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cherf just can't accept that she has been found out.
> Let's give her a magnifying glass and call her Sherlock.


Bratty Patty
Cherf sure rushed to change her profile, didn't she. Too late.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EveMCooke: you have offended, me, a Christian. I expect your apology immediately. You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. Also that is not of the Buddhist beliefs either.)
> 
> I've studied Buddhism and visited many countries throughout Asia. Buddhas statues are everywhere, worshiped in a materialistic way and are bowed and prayed to in reverence and in festivals, etc. Temples and Shrines put Buddha on a pedestal, receives prayers, donations of gold, gold leafing, flowers, foods, fruits, saki, etc., to the idol or facsimiles.
> 
> ...


KPG
Go take a hike to get some fresh air. My Karma will accompany you.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> you see some people travel simply to collect Postcards to impress others, Culture is not even secondary.


This I know. One of my sister's husband came from Denmark and she visited that country many times. She stayed with her husband's relatives when she went there. Unfortunately, it was wasted on her. Some of her classics: The sign posts and street names were not in English. With all the English speaking tourists going there you would think they would post the signs in English also. Then there was : But they speak English with such a funny accent. Never mind the fact that sis could not speak a word of Danish, no everyone should speak English according to sis. She had absolutely no idea of the culture and did not want to learn. She complained about the climate, the food, absolutely everything. As I said what a waste of such a golden opportunity. One of her husband's cousins came to stay with her for a couple of months a few years ago and was made to feel so uncomfortable by my sis after a few days she chummed up with another girl and they shared a flat for the remainder of her visit.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what we do with you too.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Noooo kidding! They cannot post any intelligent discussions in their own words, so the Libs simply copy/paste anything they can get their hands on.
> 
> I did scroll past everything; didn't read or view an image either. Complete waste of time.
> 
> Ignore - that's the ticket!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

CHINO

Christian In Name Only



knitpresentgifts said:


> EveMCooke: you have offended, me, a Christian. I expect your apology immediately. You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. Also that is not of the Buddhist beliefs either.)
> 
> I've studied Buddhism and visited many countries throughout Asia. Buddhas statues are everywhere, worshiped in a materialistic way and are bowed and prayed to in reverence and in festivals, etc. Temples and Shrines put Buddha on a pedestal, receives prayers, donations of gold, gold leafing, flowers, foods, fruits, saki, etc., to the idol or facsimiles.
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> That's what we do with you too.


damemary
just give it a little time and she will refer to some of our postings. Bet on?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She never lets the truth get in the way of a good rumor.

I don't care what your name is. I like your thoughts. Keep em coming.



EveMCooke said:


> I am sorry but you have been badly misinformed here. I do not know who told you this, but I am not your Martha French.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> You are so sweet. But I am at a loss to understand you when you say "You have intentionally insulted Christians by some of your prior posts. (I'm not only referring to your spamming posts last night in all your stupidity. " But I do not wish to get into a slanging match with people who may have visited sacred sites but not understood what they saw.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> just give it a little time you will be Ingried too. Some of us have graduated to that rank already. There is a game being played by these folks attaching different names to anyone coming in. Must be an age thing.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds familiar. All a sad lost opportunity to step outside one's comfort zone. Hard to learn anything new when you think you know it all. Like I said. Sounds familiar.



EveMCooke said:


> This I know. One of my sister's husband came from Denmark and she visited that country many times. She stayed with her husband's relatives when she went there. Unfortunately, it was wasted on her. Some of her classics: The sign posts and street names were not in English. With all the English speaking tourists going there you would think they would post the signs in English also. Then there was : But they speak English with such a funny accent. Never mind the fact that sis could not speak a word of Danish, no everyone should speak English according to sis. She had absolutely no idea of the culture and did not want to learn. She complained about the climate, the food, absolutely everything. As I said what a waste of such a golden opportunity. One of her husband's cousins came to stay with her for a couple of months a few years ago and was made to feel so uncomfortable by my sis after a few days she chummed up with another girl and they shared a flat for the remainder of her visit.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Losing bet. No chance she'll resist. She'll HAVE to tell us that we know nothing and she knows it all. Time it?



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> just give it a little time and she will refer to some of our postings. Bet on?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Can you believe some of these Tea Party people in the House are using Moses to justify trying to take away food away from needy Americans? Tell me, what brand of Christianity is that?


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

damemary said:


> CHINO
> 
> Christian In Name Only


Thanks for this info, "Chino. --- Christian In Name Only".


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What a wonderful House we have


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've been informed EveMCooke = the former Martha French who was kicked off KP about six months ago for being so angry and cruel to others and creating trouble all over the site. Forewarned ...


That's ridiculous, as you well know. Martha was an elderly Australian woman with a chip on her shoulder the size of Mount Rushmore. I had a few run-ins with her and knew her well--Janeway even better as they were arch-enemies. The fact that Martha was completely impossible was one of the very very few things we agreed on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's ridiculous, as you well know. Martha was an elderly Australian woman with a chip on her shoulder the size of Mount Rushmore. I had a few run-ins with her and knew her well--Janeway even better as they were arch-enemies. The fact that Martha was completely impossible was one of the very very few things we agreed on.


I get it. Both women are Australian! But it's a BIG COUNTRY....millions of people. But Sherlock has it all figured out. Has she gotten a single thing right? I don't think so.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Last night, the House of Representatives did the unthinkable: They voted to steal food right out of the mouths of hungry children.

Conservatives pushed through $40 billion in cuts to food stamps (a.k.a. SNAP--the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program).1

This bill is a huge blow to America's neediest families. If it becomes law, it would kick 4 million hungry people off of SNAP next year and force countless children to go to bed hungry.2

There's going to be a fight in Washington over whether to enact the House bill as it stands or whether it can be scaled back. To win this fight, we have got to get the word out about what these cuts mean for families. Can you share this infographic that lays out the facts about this obscene attack on hungry families?

Click here to share it on Facebook.

If youre not on Facebook, click here to share it through our website.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I get it. Both women are Australian! But it's a BIG COUNTRY....millions of people. But Sherlock has it all figured out. Has she gotten a single thing right? I don't think so.


Shhhhh I will let you into a big secret. I will tell you who I really am if you promise not to tell anyone.

1. I am not a woman
2. I am not living in Australia
3. I am in fact Elvis.

Dang, hot diggity, now you know my secret I will have to find another place to hide, another name to use. Was it my singing, my twisting pelvis or my guitar playing that gave me away. Oh, can you tell me where I can buy another white jump suit as this one is getting a little grubby.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Losing bet. No chance she'll resist. She'll HAVE to tell us that we know nothing and she knows it all. Time it?


damemary
Yes.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Shhhhh I will let you into a big secret. I will tell you who I really am if you promise not to tell anyone.
> 
> 1. I am not a woman
> 2. I am not living in Australia
> ...


EveMCooke
if you get the white suit I volunteer to embroider it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Shhhhh I will let you into a big secret. I will tell you who I really am if you promise not to tell anyone.
> 
> 1. I am not a woman
> 2. I am not living in Australia
> ...


uh wella blessa my soul.........


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> if you get the white suit I volunteer to embroider it.


Thanks kindly. It is so hard to find a kind, honest woman these days. Most women round these parts are only chasing me so I will sing to them. Now a kindly lady, like your goodself, I would sing for. Especially after you have done finished sewing fancy stitches on my new suit.

Love me tender, love me true or do you prefer You aint nothin but a hound dog.

My poor ole brain aint what it used to be, for sure. I jus cannt remember any more words to my songs no longer.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> uh wella blessa my soul.........


I thinks thats words from one of my songs, but not sure what comes next. You might wanna by my lady accom akump accplish, oh no I cannot spell neithers. But you sure are one pretty lady and them folks will all be looking at your pretty face, theys will not notice that I am not singing no more.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've made my day. Please consider entertaining at our next bash. I know a great drycleaner for white with sequins. No problem. Love me tender....we're all singing along. And the bad girls love to dance.



EveMCooke said:


> Shhhhh I will let you into a big secret. I will tell you who I really am if you promise not to tell anyone.
> 
> 1. I am not a woman
> 2. I am not living in Australia
> ...


----------



## Joan H (Nov 28, 2012)

damemary said:


> Last night, the House of Representatives did the unthinkable: They voted to steal food right out of the mouths of hungry children.
> 
> Conservatives pushed through $40 billion in cuts to food stamps (a.k.a. SNAP--the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program).1
> 
> ...


The way I read the bill it only knocks out single people without children that are able but not willing to work that have qualified for the program through back doors from another program. Specifically no households with children are to be affected.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Joan H said:


> The way I read the bill it only knocks out single people without children that are able but not willing to work that have qualified for the program through back doors from another program. Specifically no households with children are to be affected.


True. Poor Surfer Dude, no more free food


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Joan H said:


> The way I read the bill it only knocks out single people without children that are able but not willing to work that have qualified for the program through back doors from another program. Specifically no households with children are to be affected.


Exactly. This blather is classic Liberal lies to protect initiatives that are destroying America.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good since your are left-handed we can work side-by-side.


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Chino is a city in San Bernardino County, California. It's in the western end of the Riverside-San Bernardino area. Population 79,049. It's approximately 42 miles east of Los Angeles. I've never heard "Chino" used in a derogatory context before. Have heard "Chicano" used for many years though. Always something new isn't there.


Yes, we human beings are always coming up with new ways to insult and hurt each other. Unfortunately.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Peggy Noonan, Presidential speech writer for Reagan and WallStreet Journal columnist, who endorsed Obama in 2008, reported recently:

White House staffers have adopted a new and unflattering nickname for their boss: "Obam-me." She says she also heard this nickname in chats with a few senators. 

And how did the staffers come up with that name?

"Because it's all about him and his big thoughts," Noonan writes in a column. "I guess the second-term team is not quite as adoring as the first."

Noonan is now disillusioned with Obama as are Obama's staffers. I guess the regular posters on D&P's were ahead of the curve.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Exactly. This blather is classic Liberal lies to protect initiatives that are destroying America.


They are "gimmies" and don't want it taken away. Work? What is that? They don't know.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Gee it's a good thing that we had some help moving right a long here.

Am putting up a new site. Please join me over there also telling why?? Need fun please come.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Busy morning and cold here. went from ac to hot now cold.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Gee it's a good thing that we had some help moving right a long here.
> 
> Am putting up a new site. Please join me over there also telling why?? Need fun please come.


Yarnlady,

I found the new site. See you there.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> I found the new site. See you there.


Good I knew you would. :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Peggy Noonan, Presidential speech writer for Reagan and WallStreet Journal columnist, who endorsed Obama in 2008, reported recently:
> 
> White House staffers have adopted a new and unflattering nickname for their boss: "Obam-me." She says she also heard this nickname in chats with a few senators.
> 
> ...


Yes. I can't imagine what took them so long. Denial. It's hard to see failure in someone you've supported. Some of the visitors on here still can't handle it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

It would be of value if some of you folks here would listen to someone-one like Warren Buffett who says that he gap between rich and poor is much too wide. He blames financial catastropes on just a handful of greedy individuals and states that that will happen again and again. Case in point housing market collapse.
He says that America is fine and doing better at this point than was expected and we always recover. He applauds Paulson, Bernanke and Geithner. He also says that any Nation MUST take care of the Needy. Of course the Chinos here have a totally different opinion. They all seem to subscribe to Ayn Rand's philosophy. That woman was creepy inside and out.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes. I can't imagine what took them so long. Denial. It's hard to see failure in someone you've supported. Some of the visitors on here still can't handle it.


bonbf3
I can well imagine that a Reagan Staffer has problems with understanding President Obama. His intelligence is far beyond that of Reagan.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> I can well imagine that a Reagan Staffer has problems with understanding President Obama. His intelligence is far beyond that of Reagan.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> :thumbup: perfect choice for the Festival; I'll offer my arm too


I think you'll get great pics of Bonnie and me trying to hang polka dot wall paper! Stand back so you don't get covered in paste and click away!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> That's what we do with you too.


SURE you do, that's why you and all your fools of Libs friends are here. Because NO ONE likes you and your buddies and refuses to respond to you or go onto your Liberal Point-of-View (P.O.V. Liberal) or L.O.L.L. (Ladies of the Liberal Left) threads. NOBODY CARES TO listen to your hate, evil and crap.

*All good folks on KP* - please ignore all the foolish Libs who are intent on trashing every thread where they see contented and pleasant KP members posting and forming friendships with one another. The Libs are incapable of doing the same.

Please post on this thread we many of us have found peace and formed friendships and learn and enjoy posting to one another.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Joan H said:


> The way I read the bill it only knocks out single people without children that are able but not willing to work that have qualified for the program through back doors from another program. Specifically no households with children are to be affected.


You are correct Joan. The Libs post on this thread only to incite - don't be distracted by them or their posts; think of them as commercials. You know, don't watch or listen - it is the time to refill your drink or get a snack or fold the laundry!

Hope you'll stick around on this thread and we'll hear more from you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Peggy Noonan, Presidential speech writer for Reagan and WallStreet Journal columnist, who endorsed Obama in 2008, reported recently:
> 
> White House staffers have adopted a new and unflattering nickname for their boss: "Obam-me." She says she also heard this nickname in chats with a few senators.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Obama-us!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> I found the new site. See you there.


Took me awhile, but I'm there too!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks to KPG and Joan H for clarifying.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Busy morning and cold here. went from ac to hot now cold.


Cool & wet here too. How did your tomato sauce turn out; were the mushrooms & anchovies good?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

WCK: are you equipped with a few recipes for your slow cooker? I'm so happy you have one and hopefully will not be upset with me for encouraging you to buy one. I feel I must supply you with recipes to earn my keep!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

yes sauce was good .

WCK has started a cook book for the Righter village so you must contribute recipes all of us must.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Gee it's a good thing that we had some help moving right a long here.
> 
> Am putting up a new site. Please join me over there also telling why?? Need fun please come.


A quick look at the other sites shows there isn't much of anything happening - it all seems to slowing down, haven't even had the fun of getting their virtual party going. I guess they get a few jollies by being disruptive. At least they aren't doing massive cut & paste jobs that just waste space


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Mushrooms and anchovies were good. But mushrooms are so costly. But enjoy them ever once and a while. 

Guess what one zucchini and one yellow squash. For the whole year that is about it.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you'll get great pics of Bonnie and me trying to hang polka dot wall paper! Stand back so you don't get covered in paste and click away!


hubby and I wall papered and painted together and despite popular warning our marriage survived. Will get great photos showing all the fun preparing for the festival


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

It's a rainy day in Georgia! Don't I love it! This is the best day to pick up the book I reserved at the library. The Whole Enchilada by Diane Mott Davidson. Anybody read her books? You might like them - cozy mysteries with a caterer as the main character. Recipes in every book. There are lots of these books -in the teens.

I think I was #200 plus when I first reserved this book. She has a lot of faithful readers.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK: are you equipped with a few recipes for your slow cooker? I'm so happy you have one and hopefully will not be upset with me for encouraging you to buy one. I feel I must supply you with recipes to earn my keep!


 :thumbup: thanks. Would love to get your recipes that I didn`t ask for when I didn`t have a slow cooker


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> yes sauce was good .
> 
> WCK has started a cook book for the Righter village so you must contribute recipes all of us must.


I`ve been thinking about it and would like to put a REAL cookbook together for us in the Righter Village. There have been so many good recipes posted over the summer along with tips and hints that I would love to see together in 1 document.

Please post or send me your recipes, etc and with your permission, I`ll pick up those already posted and format them into our own cookbook (might even have a few illustrations and photos)


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I`ve been thinking about it and would like to put a REAL cookbook together for us in the Righter Village. There have been so many good recipes posted over the summer along with tips and hints that I would love to see together in 1 document.
> 
> Please post or send me your recipes, etc and with your permission, I`ll pick up those already posted and format them into our own cookbook (might even have a few illustrations and photos)


Oh that will be neat. Won't that be fun. :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I`ve been thinking about it and would like to put a REAL cookbook together for us in the Righter Village. There have been so many good recipes posted over the summer along with tips and hints that I would love to see together in 1 document.
> 
> Please post or send me your recipes, etc and with your permission, I`ll pick up those already posted and format them into our own cookbook (might even have a few illustrations and photos)


That certainly is a nice offer! Thank you, WCK.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

My tomatoes are finally ripe and am enjoying real tomato flavor. Now all I have to do is find that tomato jelly (I think it may be KC's) or tomato chutney recipe. 

Peggy Noonan along with others is now calling o obam-me in honor of his narcissism. My shortened form will be o-me. Or it could be o-I.

Today I'm planting chrysanthemums and doing some garden clean-up.

All have a loverly day.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> My tomatoes are finally ripe and am enjoying real tomato flavor. Now all I have to do is find that tomato jelly (I think it may be KC's) or tomato chutney recipe.
> 
> Peggy Noonan along with others is now calling o obam-me in honor of his narcissism. My shortened form will be o-me. Or it could be o-I.
> 
> ...


Oh work to do for you and a lovely day too. Love Chrysanthemums. :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, I have to admit I hadn't read this article until your post about it. I am encouraged by Pope Francei I attitudes, and look forward to seeing how he carries them out, or possibly does not. The Church is so in need of something that can bring Americans especially back to the Church, Thanks for your post.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible.
> 
> Pope Francis warning that the Catholic Church needs to reassess its priorities, in his first extensive interview since becoming the pope. Copyright Associated Press
> 
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

WCK Are you looking for any special category of recipe?


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Took me awhile, but I'm there too!


I am going there next.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I have to admit I hadn't read this article until your post about it. I am encouraged by Pope Francei I attitudes, and look forward to seeing how he carries them out, or possibly does not. The Church is so in need of something that can bring Americans especially back to the Church, Thanks for your post.


Seattle, who is the interloper now?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I have to admit I hadn't read this article until your post about it. I am encouraged by Pope Francei I attitudes, and look forward to seeing how he carries them out, or possibly does not. The Church is so in need of something that can bring Americans especially back to the Church, Thanks for your post.


MIB, is that your "signature" in caps at the end of your post?


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## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Hiya everyone...still so busy knitting that I didn`t have time to play (come here to visit lol)
One afghan is taking forever, but it`s one I designed myself and I so want it completed by Christmas for our friends Mary and Randy. They`ve had such a rotten year that I want to show them how much they`re appreciated.
I just finished making a fabulous cake that is perfect for the fall weather. And I made it from ingredients that were already in my pantry/fridge. I`m so proud of it.
I will be so happy for you to share the recipe, I just wish you could share the cake - you would love it as much as my hubby does. The cake is now in the oven and smells wonderful.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> Hiya everyone...still so busy knitting that I didn`t have time to play (come here to visit lol)
> One afghan is taking forever, but it`s one I designed myself and I so want it completed by Christmas for our friends Mary and Randy. They`ve had such a rotten year that I want to show them how much they`re appreciated.
> I just finished making a fabulous cake that is perfect for the fall weather. And I made it from ingredients that were already in my pantry/fridge. I`m so proud of it.
> I will be so happy for you to share the recipe, I just wish you could share the cake - you would love it as much as my hubby does. The cake is now in the oven and smells wonderful.


Wendy Bee,

Please share the recipe!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> Hiya everyone...still so busy knitting that I didn`t have time to play (come here to visit lol)
> One afghan is taking forever, but it`s one I designed myself and I so want it completed by Christmas for our friends Mary and Randy. They`ve had such a rotten year that I want to show them how much they`re appreciated.
> I just finished making a fabulous cake that is perfect for the fall weather. And I made it from ingredients that were already in my pantry/fridge. I`m so proud of it.
> I will be so happy for you to share the recipe, I just wish you could share the cake - you would love it as much as my hubby does. The cake is now in the oven and smells wonderful.


Oh yes please.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


my gosh that is just scare both the picture and his words.


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## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Your wish is my command 


*Wendy`s autumn spice cake*

1 stick of butter (softened)
1 and 1/2 cups all purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 large orange
1 cup sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoons pumpkin pie spice
1 tablespoon apple sauce
2 eggs
1 cup water
3 tablespoons corn syrup

Peel orange with vegetable peeler, making sure no bitter white pieces are in the peel. Finely chop, set aside.
Preheat oven to 350. Grease 8 X 8 glass pan, sprinkle with flour. Set aside.
With electric mixer, beat together softened butter and sugar for about 2 minutes. Add eggs, beat for a further minute. Add juice from orange, and 1 cup water, and apple juice. Gradually add flour 1/2 cup at a time while mixing. Add baking powder, salt, pumpkin pie spice, and grated orange peel. Reserve 1 tablespoon of the grated orange peel for the frosting.
Pour the batter into the glass pan. Bake for 45 minutes or until well risen.
Add 3 tablespoons of corn syrup to cup, add the rest of the grated orange peel, and 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin pie spice (if prefered)and mix together. Spread over cake while still hot from the oven.

Enjoy!


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## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

This cake is surprisingly light. It has a texture similar to angel cake. 
You can use canned frosting instead of orange peel and syrup if preferred.. I didn`t have any frosting, just what I had in the pantry. I bet cream cheese frosting would be good on this cake too.
I made this cake last week too, but used a loaf pan instead the first time. The cake was still a bit sticky in the middle, that`s why I chose a bigger pan second time around.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

HUNGER in America caused by the Republicans


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## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

There are no words


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

O.K., we have a fine Nancy Pelosi and you have this Monster


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## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Eek!!!


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Hiya everyone...still so busy knitting that I didn`t have time to play (come here to visit lol)
> One afghan is taking forever, but it`s one I designed myself and I so want it completed by Christmas for our friends Mary and Randy. They`ve had such a rotten year that I want to show them how much they`re appreciated.
> I just finished making a fabulous cake that is perfect for the fall weather. And I made it from ingredients that were already in my pantry/fridge. I`m so proud of it.
> I will be so happy for you to share the recipe, I just wish you could share the cake - you would love it as much as my hubby does. The cake is now in the oven and smells wonderful.


I'd like the recipe if you will share. We always appreciate recipes on this site.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

I posted it already KnitCrazy...it`s further up the page
:mrgreen:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Eek!!!


That sums it up pretty well.

Dems=hard, unfeminine women that are not polite and not smart enough to know they turn people off by using personal attacks, and old dragons.

Repubs=smart, hip women that can discuss important topics without yelling or attacking others personally, and are up and coming thinkers and doers.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> I posted it already KnitCrazy...it`s further up the page
> :mrgreen:


Thanks!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> That sums it up pretty well.
> 
> Dems=hard, unfeminine women that are not polite and not smart enough to know they turn people off by using personal attacks, and old dragons.
> 
> Repubs=smart, hip women that can discuss important topics without yelling or attacking others personally, and are up and coming thinkers and doers.


snap


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> Hiya everyone...still so busy knitting that I didn`t have time to play (come here to visit lol)
> One afghan is taking forever, but it`s one I designed myself and I so want it completed by Christmas for our friends Mary and Randy. They`ve had such a rotten year that I want to show them how much they`re appreciated.
> I just finished making a fabulous cake that is perfect for the fall weather. And I made it from ingredients that were already in my pantry/fridge. I`m so proud of it.
> I will be so happy for you to share the recipe, I just wish you could share the cake - you would love it as much as my hubby does. The cake is now in the oven and smells wonderful.


How nice - all of it! I'd love the recipe - thank you. I hope you have a lovely evening enjoying your delicious cake.

Oh- you had already posted it. I copied it to try. Thanks so much!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> snap


An unfemanine snort coming your way followed very quickly with a smirk. Well stated.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


Probably the best pic I've seen of her! :roll: Fancy Nancy is the daughter of a former mayor of Baltimore. He reigned when I was growing up there. Reputation: crooked was what I heard growing up. Surprise.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> A quick look at the other sites shows there isn't much of anything happening - it all seems to slowing down, haven't even had the fun of getting their virtual party going. I guess they get a few jollies by being disruptive. At least they aren't doing massive cut & paste jobs that just waste space


Well, they annoy us when they post their drivel and lies, but they sure make our site popular and look we are on #12. Some of that is due to their garbage, but our site looks stronger and theirs weaker based on pages.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> My tomatoes are finally ripe and am enjoying real tomato flavor. Now all I have to do is find that tomato jelly (I think it may be KC's) or tomato chutney recipe.
> 
> Peggy Noonan along with others is now calling o obam-me in honor of his narcissism. My shortened form will be o-me. Or it could be o-I.
> 
> ...


Hope you got all your gardening done! If so, you've had a very productive Saturday.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you'll get great pics of Bonnie and me trying to hang polka dot wall paper! Stand back so you don't get covered in paste and click away!


Take care that they don't become polka-ovals.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> yes sauce was good .
> 
> WCK has started a cook book for the Righter village so you must contribute recipes all of us must.


I'll send some when I get home. I don't store many electronically. I have lots, but I like to write them on cards and put plastic sleeves on them. I have 3 boxes full and they are organized. I'd love to participate.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Joan H said:


> The way I read the bill it only knocks out single people without children that are able but not willing to work that have qualified for the program through back doors from another program. Specifically no households with children are to be affected.


That's the way I understand the changes too. Just the deadbeats get knocked off the Obama gravy train, not families. It's about time.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> How nice - all of it! I'd love the recipe - thank you. I hope you have a lovely evening enjoying your delicious cake.
> 
> Oh- you had already posted it. I copied it to try. Thanks so much!


Please tell me what you think of it when you make it for yourself. Would love to get some feedback on it.
Thanks


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


She looks like a maniac. Is that a herpes sore on her lip? I definitely think she needs a doctor. Oh no, she'll have to get in that long line that Obamacare caused. Oh no, she isn't required to use Obamacare. She'll get right in, but that won't cure the madness or the ugliness of that creepy woman.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> That's the way I understand the changes too. Just the deadbeats get knocked off the Obama gravy train, not families. It's about time.


My question is, why were they there in the first place?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> My question is, why were they there in the first place?


O-me changed the rules for food stamp eligibility. It kept the deadbeat masses from complaining and exposing the failure of his economic efforts. I started to type economic plan, but there really isn't a plan. His only objective is to keep covering up his failures, especially before the 2012 election. It is classic Socialist theory - bring down the rich and raise the very poor to a high enough level that they don't riot. Unfortunately, he has no economic initiatives that have ever worked, and the rich are now richer under O-me and the poor are much poorer.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> She looks like a maniac. Is that a herpes sore on her lip? I definitely think she needs a doctor. Oh no, she'll have to get in that long line that Obamacare caused. Oh no, she isn't required to use Obamacare. She'll get right in, but that won't cure the madness or the ugliness of that creepy woman.


Knit crazy
well the poor modifications on a really good looking Nancy Pelosi are erasable but this ugly puss is just plain ugly. Don't these two make a fabulously frightening couple? Be proud, they are yours.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Muslims terrorists have taken non-Muslims hostage in Kenya and threatening to kill them. Americans are hostages. Maybe O-me should call his friends and relatives there and tell them they are violent pigs. Anyone who thinks the Muslim faith is non-violent is seeing that faith in action.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> That sums it up pretty well.
> 
> Dems=hard, unfeminine women that are not polite and not smart enough to know they turn people off by using personal attacks, and old dragons.
> 
> Repubs=smart, hip women that can discuss important topics without yelling or attacking others personally, and are up and coming thinkers and doers.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, we human beings are always coming up with new ways to insult and hurt each other. Unfortunately.


Someone noted, I think it was later in this particular forum that "Chino" means Christian In Name Only. And, yes, humans will eternally come up with ways to insult, hurt each other. It has ever thus been & will continue to be, unfortunately.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Someone noted, I think it was later in this particular forum that "Chino" means Christian In Name Only. And, yes, humans will eternally come up with ways to insult, hurt each other. It has ever thus been & will continue to be, unfortunately.


But isn't it sad. :thumbdown:


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They are "gimmies" and don't want it taken away. Work? What is that? They don't know.


Getting something from the government for nothing isn't a new game. 50 years ago I knew of 2 sisters, both healthy & extremely able bodied - both only in their 20's, single with no children. They both had the welfare system worked out to their mutual advantage. They had no problem getting a job. They worked just long enough in that they knew if they were let go 'cause of reasons beyond their control, they could collect unemployment. They stayed unemployed & collected their unemployment pay as long as legally possible. They would then get a new job & their charade would start all over again. This was their way of life. I'd never encountered people like this before. I was amazed at their devious welfare system. It takes all kinds, doesn't it?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I'll send some when I get home. I don't store many electronically. I have lots, but I like to write them on cards and put plastic sleeves on them. I have 3 boxes full and they are organized. I'd love to participate.


Oh I can't wait, West Coast Kitty will gather them together. It will be nice.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Good I knew you would. :thumbup:


Please, oh pretty please, do tell me where the new site is.....you can PM if need be.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Please, oh pretty please, do tell me where the new site is.....you can PM if need be.


it is called a garden of friendship, but others who have four or five sites to be nasty on have now decide to go on there and pretend to be kind.

I have stayed away from their sites and this is how they repay me.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Mushrooms and anchovies were good. But mushrooms are so costly. But enjoy them ever once and a while.
> 
> Guess what one zucchini and one yellow squash. For the whole year that is about it.


Lucky us! We buy our mushrooms direct from/at the mushroom plant. So yummy! So fresh! My DH simply drives up to a small guardhouse. The security guard has a small refrig in the G.H., reaches in, hands my DH a bag of fresh mushrooms &.......oh so good. Very reasonably priced. This company also has a mushroom plant not far, a bit east of Vancouver, B.C., Canada, near Chilliwack, B.C.
Don't know if they sell mushrooms direct at that location...Monterey Mushroom Company.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Take care that they don't become polka-ovals.


Good point! When I'm around, don't be surprised if circles turn into squares!

So I spent some time again today at my BF's condo along with my sister at BF's place that I'm decorating and decorative painting for her. Today I nearly got electrocuted and what did she and my sister do - laugh! :shock:

BF's dining room furniture and hutch was removed today, and a new frig was delivered. I had bought her a floor vase, got some paint samples, tall stalked flowers (so cool) and what I'll call a glass decorative bowling ball with colored strokes to match her color scheme.

I'm was hoping the bowling ball would be beautiful object of art in her new hutch which has both covered and open lighted shelves. So, I stood directly under her dining room light held the bowling ball up to see and show how it would look with direct light on it. BF and sis were eager to see the ball down-lit as well.

Well they sure did!

Sparks - literally sparks - like you'd see from a welder working on metal jumped at me from the overhead light fixture. I was stunned and actually thought to myself, well, did I just get burned or am I being electrocuted?

My friend and sister stood in shock as I jumped to the side (but held onto the ball!)

I quickly realized I was fine, no damage, no singed hair no burns.

Once BF and sister knew I was OK, they could not contain their laughter watching me standing and dancing with a glass bowling ball in my hands while being sparked and under fireworks!

We considered if some how the metals in the bowling ball acted as a magnet from the light but don't see how that is possible. Regardless, another friend, an electrician, will be making a visit tomorrow.

I told BF she is definitely keeping the bowling ball since it has such an interesting story and is more than just a conversation piece now! 

Typical day in my life - no one gets hurt - just lots of laughter - when I'm around. Actually _guaranteed _ when I'm around.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Someone noted, I think it was later in this particular forum that "Chino" means Christian In Name Only. And, yes, humans will eternally come up with ways to insult, hurt each other. It has ever thus been & will continue to be, unfortunately.


I cannot believe how mean the Libs on these threads are/have become. Don't they understand their fighting and insulting others does them no favors and only diminishes how everyone thinks of them?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Your wish is my command
> 
> 
> *Wendy`s autumn spice cake*
> ...


Thanks Wendy, this sounds terrific!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> hubby and I wall papered and painted together and despite popular warning our marriage survived. Will get great photos showing all the fun preparing for the festival


Love that! I'm sure your photos of Bonnie and Me will be perfect, just make sure you make our backsides appear smaller than they appear in your viewfinder.

I remember my father and mother wallpapering together and the problems they had 'hanging' together. Hubby and I are excellent painters and work very well together but haven't tried any wall papering.

We actually quasi formed a company called "The Funky Rollers." We hired some of our friends and made some money for several years on a part-time basis.

On another note, since the trolls were out and all over this thread recently, it got me inspired to start my Fall interior decorating. I did one mantle today and took some pics that I'll forward to you all.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I`ve been thinking about it and would like to put a REAL cookbook together for us in the Righter Village. There have been so many good recipes posted over the summer along with tips and hints that I would love to see together in 1 document.
> 
> Please post or send me your recipes, etc and with your permission, I`ll pick up those already posted and format them into our own cookbook (might even have a few illustrations and photos)


Often 'my' recipes are edited recipes that I got from others. I cannot claim them as mine nor should they be printed in a book unless proper credit is given, correct? :-o


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Your wish is my command
> 
> 
> *Wendy`s autumn spice cake*
> ...


Wendy: Have 1 question. Just wrote down your recipe. In the ingredients you list: 1 T apple "sauce"' but in your directions you state: Add apple "juice" . Which is it Wendy...sauce or juice?


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> O.K., we have a fine Nancy Pelosi and you have this Monster


Who is this?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good point! When I'm around, don't be surprised if circles turn into squares!
> 
> So I spent some time again today at my BF's condo along with my sister at BF's place that I'm decorating and decorative painting for her. Today I nearly got electrocuted and what did she and my sister do - laugh! :shock:
> 
> ...


Oh dear oh i had to go to the bathroom you poor thing, but would have joined the others laughing too. :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> it is called a garden of friendship, but others who have four or five sites to be nasty on have now decide to go on there and pretend to be kind.
> 
> I have stayed away from their sites and this is how they repay me.


I'm sorry Yarnie. Hate is all they know.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Lucky us! We buy our mushrooms direct from/at the mushroom plant. So yummy! So fresh! My DH simply drives up to a small guardhouse. The security guard has a small refrig in the G.H., reaches in, hands my DH a bag of fresh mushrooms &.......oh so good. Very reasonably priced. This company also has a mushroom plant not far, a bit east of Vancouver, B.C., Canada, near Chilliwack, B.C.
> Don't know if they sell mushrooms direct at that location...Monterey Mushroom Company.


Oh I envy you . I love fresh mushrooms.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Wendy: Have 1 question. Just wrote down your recipe. In the ingredients you list: 1 T apple "sauce"' but in your directions you state: Add apple "juice" . Which is it Wendy...sauce or juice?


We know your type; you are interested in hitting the 'sauce.'

I'm waiting for my permission as well ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Often 'my' recipes are edited recipes that I got from others. I cannot claim them as mine nor should they be printed in a book unless proper credit is given, correct? :-o


gee o.k. now thats a kettle of fish to fry. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Good News!!!!

White House tours will open again soon so we can all meet the President in the Oval Office.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I cannot believe how mean the Libs on these threads are/have become. Don't they understand their fighting and insulting others does them no favors and only diminishes how everyone thinks of them?


No, they don't. Haven't you realized, by now, that they are clueless?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Often 'my' recipes are edited recipes that I got from others. I cannot claim them as mine nor should they be printed in a book unless proper credit is given, correct? :-o


If you have editors in order to make them yours it makes them new recipes.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Love that! I'm sure your photos of Bonnie and Me will be perfect, just make sure you make our backsides appear smaller than they appear in your viewfinder.
> 
> I remember my father and mother wallpapering together and the problems they had 'hanging' together. Hubby and I are excellent painters and work very well together but haven't tried any wall papering.
> 
> ...


My DH & I decorated our 1st house together...well sort-0f....kind-of. Started wallpapering a small bathroom. DH said he'd help me. Ha! Started with the 1st roll of flocked paper..BIG mistake. He literally threw the roll down on the floor & said that was the extent of his papering. From that point on I was the official wallpaperer. I figured if I can lay out a paper sewing pattern, cut material, then sew/construct a garment, I can, for sure, simply glue paper on a blank, flat wall. He did find his talent though, was a master painter. Thereafter we both stuck to our forte ----- me papering.......he painting. Guess we were born with our talents.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good News!!!!
> 
> White House tours will open again soon so we can all meet the President in the Oval Office.


Is there a vomitorium nearby?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Is there a vomitorium nearby?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
you ladies have to stop i am running out of depends.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No, they don't. Haven't you realized, by now, that they are clueless?


Well, yes, there is that point ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> My DH & I decorated our 1st house together...well sort-0f....kind-of. Started wallpapering a small bathroom. DH said he'd help me. Ha! Started with the 1st roll of flocked paper..BIG mistake. He literally threw the roll down on the floor & said that was the extent of his papering. From that point on I was the official wallpaperer. I figured if I can lay out a paper sewing pattern, cut material, then sew/construct a garment, I can, for sure, simply glue paper on a blank, flat wall. He did find his talent though, was a master painter. Thereafter we both stuck to our forte ----- me papering.......he painting. Guess we were born with our talents.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Is there a vomitorium nearby?


New word - love it! :XD: :XD: :XD: :-D :-D :-D


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> Wendy: Have 1 question. Just wrote down your recipe. In the ingredients you list: 1 T apple "sauce"' but in your directions you state: Add apple "juice" . Which is it Wendy...sauce or juice?


Georgiegirl....I just noticed that too before I saw your post. It`s apple sauce, but if you prefer apple juice, then go ahead and use it. After all, it`s YOUR recipe now since you are going to try this recipe yourself.
Sorry for the confusion. Please let me know how it turns out and if you like it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh I can't believe what happen tonight. I want to start on my another christmas present. Got the swift out set up winder. Going good tell last ball, then it got harder and harder to wrap. Egads it was wrap under the winder and nobs and floor that is after I tried to get it on done. Even cat enjoyed it. Not me I got a a knife and proceed to cut the thing to pieaces I do feel better now. So will just have to go out and see if I can find another skein of yarn. No problem at all.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Muslims terrorists have taken non-Muslims hostage in Kenya and threatening to kill them. Americans are hostages. Maybe O-me should call his friends and relatives there and tell them they are violent pigs. Anyone who thinks the Muslim faith is non-violent is seeing that faith in action.


Knit crazy
we have had over 200 mass murders since 2006 in our Country by our People. Over 90% of murders in the USA are black on black and over 80% white on white. Not a record to be proud of is it so keep your nose out of other countries until yours is clean.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Who is this?


Georgiegirl
Paul Ryans very special Love.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


Country Bumpkins
changed your Religion? You are getting uglier by the day.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Who is this?


Somebody that Hucking made up - a nobody.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Getting something from the government for nothing isn't a new game. 50 years ago I knew of 2 sisters, both healthy & extremely able bodied - both only in their 20's, single with no children. They both had the welfare system worked out to their mutual advantage. They had no problem getting a job. They worked just long enough in that they knew if they were let go 'cause of reasons beyond their control, they could collect unemployment. They stayed unemployed & collected their unemployment pay as long as legally possible. They would then get a new job & their charade would start all over again. This was their way of life. I'd never encountered people like this before. I was amazed at their devious welfare system. It takes all kinds, doesn't it?


I know people like that too. And Obama wants to hand out more.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Georgiegirl....I just noticed that too before I saw your post. It`s apple sauce, but if you prefer apple juice, then go ahead and use it. After all, it`s YOUR recipe now since you are going to try this recipe yourself.
> Sorry for the confusion. Please let me know how it turns out and if you like it.


Thanks Wendy..noted it's "Sauce".


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Must be the new Math;
> 
> 90% of all murders + 80% of all murders = 170% of all murders
> 
> ...


Shows her/its stupidity.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Shows her/its stupidity.


... again! :thumbup:


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Georgiegirl
> Paul Ryans very special Love.


Oh yeah? Well, guess love really is blind, huh?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Oh yeah? Well, guess love really is blind, huh?


Oh Georgiegirl good one. :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Oh yeah? Well, guess love really is blind, huh?


That was NOT Paul's wife. His wife is blond and pretty. Hucking is a flake.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I know people like that too. And Obama wants to hand out more.


An incompetent coworker was fired from my company a few months ago. I work my butt off for my paycheck and she has to nothing more than pretend to find a job. How fair is that? And she can do that for how long? Unbelievable!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That was NOT Paul's wife. He wife is blond and pretty. Hucking is a flake.


 :thumbup:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think you'll get great pics of Bonnie and me trying to hang polka dot wall paper! Stand back so you don't get covered in paste and click away!


You and Bonnie are making great progress-


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> An incompetent coworker was fired from my company a few months ago. I work my butt off for my paycheck and she has to nothing more than pretend to find a job. How fair is that? And she can do that for how long? Unbelievable!


She will do it the rest of her life.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> My tomatoes are finally ripe and am enjoying real tomato flavor. Now all I have to do is find that tomato jelly (I think it may be KC's) or tomato chutney recipe.
> 
> Peggy Noonan along with others is now calling o obam-me in honor of his narcissism. My shortened form will be o-me. Or it could be o-I.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good day; hope the planting went well


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You and Bonnie are making great progress-


Oh you they sure a busy those two. Theya are really good looking women. Must be because of root beer floats.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> WCK Are you looking for any special category of recipe?


I thought I would sort recipes already posted and any new recipes by category into common categories into a Word document and share with our Denim & Purl friends. Would love your additions


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> You and Bonnie are making great progress-


Oh, yes we are! I finally got the glue off my fingers and off the paper too. Too bad we can't figure out how to get it on the wall and out of our hair.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Here's the mantle I decorated today:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> MIB, is that your "signature" in caps at the end of your post?


wow - that would sure give new users the wrong impression of KP


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the mantle I decorated today:


Wow kpg, that`s really gorgeous - I love it. You really have a gift for decorating. 
Way to go

:thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the mantle I decorated today:


Oh you are so good at decorating. I really would have like to have seen you lite up the room with your bowling ball. :XD:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Your recipe sounds yummy, would you like to have it included in the Righter`s Village cookbook


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh you are so good at decorating. I really would have like to have seen you lite up the room with your bowling ball. :XD:


Very funny, Yarnie. :lol:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I'll send some when I get home. I don't store many electronically. I have lots, but I like to write them on cards and put plastic sleeves on them. I have 3 boxes full and they are organized. I'd love to participate.


That`s a lot of recipes; thanks Knit Crazy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Wow kpg, that`s really gorgeous - I love it. You really have a gift for decorating.
> Way to go
> 
> :thumbup:


Thank you. See the 'blue' pillar candle? I'm all for using what you have. The 'candle' on the silver pinecone candle holder is a metal tea can. Also, the glitter pumpkins I made years ago and dusted them off and brought them to a new use and life. Under the black fabric in the center is an unusual art work. It is actually hundreds of moth wings glued into a world and butterfly design. Contemporary, pretty and definitely one-of-a-kind. I didn't want to take that down; so just covered with the cut-out fabric to add to the design.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Muslims terrorists have taken non-Muslims hostage in Kenya and threatening to kill them. Americans are hostages. Maybe O-me should call his friends and relatives there and tell them they are violent pigs. Anyone who thinks the Muslim faith is non-violent is seeing that faith in action.


2 Canadians including a 29 year old woman are among the dead. Reports make it clear that only proven Muslims were allowed to leave


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> An incompetent coworker was fired from my company a few months ago. I work my butt off for my paycheck and she has to nothing more than pretend to find a job. How fair is that? And she can do that for how long? Unbelievable!


You are so right! Life, for sure, isn't always fair. But we must keep on keeping on, doing a day's work for our pay, hold our heads up high ... These "other" people will never change, they just don't get it. But, we should be thankful we have the drive & will power to do the right thing. Hope there are more of "us" than "them" .


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I cannot believe how mean the Libs on these threads are/have become. Don't they understand their fighting and insulting others does them no favors and only diminishes how everyone thinks of them?


I think people are seeing their true spirit on A Garden of Friendship.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> Lucky us! We buy our mushrooms direct from/at the mushroom plant. So yummy! So fresh! My DH simply drives up to a small guardhouse. The security guard has a small refrig in the G.H., reaches in, hands my DH a bag of fresh mushrooms &.......oh so good. Very reasonably priced. This company also has a mushroom plant not far, a bit east of Vancouver, B.C., Canada, near Chilliwack, B.C.
> Don't know if they sell mushrooms direct at that location...Monterey Mushroom Company.


Love fresh mushrooms. We used to be able to buy direct from Money`s Mushrooms in Alberta (they have a lot of other Can. locations too). We do have local growers of different varieties here and there are guides that do wild mushroom hunts, although I haven`t gone wild mushroom hunting


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Here's the bathroom I re-did for my girlfriend. It was a challenge as she requested colorful, pretty and elegant. Yet, the room is very narrow, and I wanted to keep the colors light.

She chose the shower curtain, and I took it from there (with her wishes in mind). The sink is the most expensive item ($900) but really makes the room I think. I love the wastebasket too.

I used a second shower curtain to create the valance and the fabric board decorations. I added lots of Swarovski colored cystals on the boards to make them stand out without being gaudy. (you cannot see the brilliance and sparkle but they really do look nice). 

We got a free butterfly stencil when ordering the stencil she wants me to paint onto her dining room wall, so I painted a moulding over the toilet and stenciled the butterflies on it as well. Today, we decided I should brighten the butterflies slightly for a more pleasing look.

She tells me it was exactly what she wanted although she had no idea what she wanted.

I love when that happens!


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That was NOT Paul's wife. His wife is blond and pretty. Hucking is a flake.


Oh yeah, well as is oft quoted "Love is blind" ...... that could still have been Paul Ryan's very special (secret) love...didn't say it was his wife! Tee Hee


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> 2 Canadians including a 29 year old woman are among the dead. Reports make it clear that only proven Muslims were allowed to leave


That's the Quran's teaching. I am worried that it is going to spread. I think we have to hold the line on Sharia law. Once the barrier to Western culture falls and Sharia law becomes reality, we are in real trouble.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> 2 Canadians including a 29 year old woman are among the dead. Reports make it clear that only proven Muslims were allowed to leave


Oh no that is sad and am sure we will see more of this happening in the world.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good point! When I'm around, don't be surprised if circles turn into squares!
> 
> So I spent some time again today at my BF's condo along with my sister at BF's place that I'm decorating and decorative painting for her. Today I nearly got electrocuted and what did she and my sister do - laugh! :shock:
> 
> ...


Your life is TOO exciting. Have to admit that I`d laugh too once I realized you didn`t need CPR


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I think people are seeing their true spirit on A Garden of Friendship.


 :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Oh yeah, well as is oft quoted "Love is blind" ...... that could still have been Paul Ryan's very special (secret) love...didn't say it was his wife! Tee Hee


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> That's the Quran's teaching. I am worried that it is going to spread. I think we have to hold the line on Sharia law. Once the barrier to Western culture falls and Sharia law becomes reality, we are in real trouble.


Any type of theocracy spells trouble. I most definitely would not like to live under Sharia, but the Christian version sounds just as bad.

I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We dont want equal time. We dont want pluralism. Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana 8/16/93


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Were you standing on a carpet? Maybe spontaneous combustion.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Good point! When I'm around, don't be surprised if circles turn into squares!
> 
> So I spent some time again today at my BF's condo along with my sister at BF's place that I'm decorating and decorative painting for her. Today I nearly got electrocuted and what did she and my sister do - laugh! :shock:
> 
> ...


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Must be the new Math;
> 
> 90% of all murders + 80% of all murders = 170% of all murders
> 
> ...


As usual, Huck makes up stuff. No proof, just take her word. Right!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Your life is TOO exciting. Have to admit that I`d laugh too once I realized you didn`t need CPR


My best girlfriend was _ on the floor _ laughing and my sister dropped to her side on the sofa rolling in laughter once they realized I was still standing and my hair and body wasn't on fire.

All my life it has been this way; everyone always says, "That's another chapter in our book about you."

(I'll post a pic of the bowling ball.) I must have looked like Atlas or the Statue of Liberty surrounded with fireworks and putrid smelling electrical fire. (I think a socket blew ...)


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Your recipe sounds yummy, would you like to have it included in the Righter`s Village cookbook


Yes please, that would be wonderful. Thank you

:thumbup:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Often 'my' recipes are edited recipes that I got from others. I cannot claim them as mine nor should they be printed in a book unless proper credit is given, correct? :-o


I hadn`t thought it that far thru KPG. My plan was to compile existing recipes that have already been posted along with any new ones that people would like to have included. I would sort them into a Word document that would be electronically shared with our D&P friends only. Poster wouldl be credited for the recipe unless someone else was named as the originator. I wouldn`t include anyone`s recipes without their permission and I wouldn`t distribute them any further than our friends here. I definitely wouldn`t want to infringe on anyone`s work though so would appreciate any advice you could offer


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Were you standing on a carpet? Maybe spontaneous combustion.


Heck, why didn't I think of that? Yes, wall-to-wall carpeting with some metallics in the glass ball. Yet, electrical burning smell - one socket looked to be burned out (not the bulb surprisingly). We'll see but we saw pretty sparks!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I can't believe what happen tonight. I want to start on my another christmas present. Got the swift out set up winder. Going good tell last ball, then it got harder and harder to wrap. Egads it was wrap under the winder and nobs and floor that is after I tried to get it on done. Even cat enjoyed it. Not me I got a a knife and proceed to cut the thing to pieaces I do feel better now. So will just have to go out and see if I can find another skein of yarn. No problem at all.


I`m sorry Yarnie, that`s frustrating --- but it`s almost as funny as KPG and the bowling ball


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I hadn`t thought it that far thru KPG. My plan was to compile existing recipes that have already been posted along with any new ones that people would like to have included. I would sort them into a Word document that would be electronically shared with our D&P friends only. Poster wouldl be credited for the recipe unless someone else was named as the originator. I wouldn`t include anyone`s recipes without their permission and I wouldn`t distribute them any further than our friends here. I definitely wouldn`t want to infringe on anyone`s work though so would appreciate any advice you could offer


Cool - I thought you intended to print it up and sell it or the like. Just compiling and distributing a collection to select friends is fine since they are all probably publicly available anyway.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> we have had over 200 mass murders since 2006 in our Country by our People. Over 90% of murders in the USA are black on black and over 80% white on white. Not a record to be proud of is it so keep your nose out of other countries until yours is clean.


 :?: 90% + 80% is more than 100%
Violence anywhere in the world is to be deplored


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Who is this?


My guess is Ayn Rand because Huck keeps harping on her. She wrote Atlas Shrugged. If you haven't seen the movie, I recommend you visit Red Box and rent it.

She died in 1982, was originally from Russia, lived through the Revolution, escaped tk America, became a Hollywood screenwriter, and knew the evil of Communism. Huck must really hate her, but that is the anarchist and Communist in her.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> My guess is Ayn Rand because Huck keeps harping on her. She wrote Atlas Shrugged. If you haven't seen the movie, I recommend you visit Red Box and rent it.
> 
> She died in 1982, was originally from Russia, lived through the Revolution, escaped tk America, became a Hollywood screenwriter, and knew the evil of Communism. Huck must really hate her, but that is the anarchist and Communist in her.


As always...Thanks!


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Often 'my' recipes are edited recipes that I got from others. I cannot claim them as mine nor should they be printed in a book unless proper credit is given, correct? :-o


Once I change a recipe, I consider it mine. If I don't change it, I attribute it.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the mantle I decorated today:


looks great KPG, all set for Halloween


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

It's called o-me math. Just like what is used to show the deficit is coming down. Math is beyond the liberals purview. Just didn't do well at it but geesh "Nice try o-me and Huck."



joeysomma said:


> Must be the new Math;
> 
> 90% of all murders + 80% of all murders = 170% of all murders
> 
> ...


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> No, they don't. Haven't you realized, by now, that they are clueless?


That's the joy! They are exposing themselves and don't realize it. If they could control the selves, we wouldn't have to fuss with them regularly.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the bathroom I re-did for my girlfriend. It was a challenge as she requested colorful, pretty and elegant. Yet, the room is very narrow, and I wanted to keep the colors light.
> 
> She chose the shower curtain, and I took it from there (with her wishes in mind). The sink is the most expensive item ($900) but really makes the room I think. I love the wastebasket too.
> 
> ...


I can see why your friend is thrilled, you did a fantastic job. Decorating a small space is hard and this looks beautiful


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Your life is TOO exciting. Have to admit that I`d laugh too once I realized you didn`t need CPR


Here's another funny story. My girl friend is trying to keep the re-do of her condo a secret from her family and friends (except me of course). Her former sofa was very old so she had a microsuede slipcover and throw pillows on it for the last several years.

I stay away as the entire family knows I can paint, sew, re-furbish, etc. I encouraged my friend to put the old slip cover and throw pillows on her new sofa which is now in place so when folks came over it would help keep her secret until a 'reveal' party.

Also, she keeps the bathroom door closed. The delivery of the new fridge was scheduled AFTER the furniture was taken away, and that's when my sister and I showed up with some temporary replacement furniture and the hands to help re-stack the new fridge.

Today when her adult nephew came to take her hutch and dining room set for his home, he came with BF's 8 year old niece and 10 year old nephew.

The 8 year old niece came in, she looked at the 'new' couch and said, "Auntie, that's your new couch? It looks exactly like the old one. You wasted your money."

The 10 year old nephew looked at the boxes around and said, "Auntie, are you moving? Cause if you are, you shouldn't have bought a new couch until you know what might look good."


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> we have had over 200 mass murders since 2006 in our Country by our People. Over 90% of murders in the USA are black on black and over 80% white on white. Not a record to be proud of is it so keep your nose out of other countries until yours is clean.


Mine's clean. I have never committed murder. Your math is faulty and your stats incomplete. Are you sure you know what you are reading on the web?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Very neat and spooky. Love the color combo.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the mantle I decorated today:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> changed your Religion? You are getting uglier by the day.


Personal attacks are over the line. What is ugly is your mouth, your spirit and your intent. Huck, you need to go find a friend. You are not one tow to e here. Find a friend if you have any.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> It's called o-me math. Just like what is used to show the deficit is coming down. Math is beyond the liberals purview. Just didn't do well at it but geesh "Nice try o-me and Huck."


well that explains why politicians have such a hard time coming up with a budget or financial plan - just draw numbers out of the air


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> It's called o-me math. Just like what is used to show the deficit is coming down. Math is beyond the liberals purview. Just didn't do well at it but geesh "Nice try o-me and Huck."


O-me, O-my!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nice! And great photography.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the bathroom I re-did for my girlfriend. It was a challenge as she requested colorful, pretty and elegant. Yet, the room is very narrow, and I wanted to keep the colors light.
> 
> She chose the shower curtain, and I took it from there (with her wishes in mind). The sink is the most expensive item ($900) but really makes the room I think. I love the wastebasket too.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> looks great KPG, all set for Halloween


Thanks, but I have more I want to do, as I only did the mantle today.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Once I change a recipe, I consider it mine. If I don't change it, I attribute it.


Sounds good, I'll follow you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I can see why your friend is thrilled, you did a fantastic job. Decorating a small space is hard and this looks beautiful


Thank you WCK. I enjoy helping when I can.

I had to fix the bobbin winder on my sewing machine when making the valance and in so doing permanently sunk my feed dogs. Now, I'll have to try fixing that or in-the-shop my machines goes. :shock:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Very neat and spooky. Love the color combo.


Thank you. The walls are light violet and navy blue with black dining room table and hutch, etc. I wanted Halloween, but not skeletons and witches. Pretty but seasonal in particular colors was my goal.

The store clerk thought I was nuts buying the colors I did.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's another funny story. My girl friend is trying to keep the re-do of her condo a secret from her family and friends (except me of course). Her former sofa was very old so she had a microsuede slipcover and throw pillows on it for the last several years.
> 
> I stay away as the entire family knows I can paint, sew, re-furbish, etc. I encouraged my friend to put the old slip cover and throw pillows on her new sofa which is now in place so when folks came over it would help keep her secret until a 'reveal' party.
> 
> ...


kids  - should be a big surprise when she has her show & tell party


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Nice! And great photography.


What is wrong with you RU? Don't you know I'm the Village Right photog and WCK an excellent second? At least as advertising manager you recognize good images when you see them.

O-me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> kids  - should be a big surprise when she has her show & tell party


We laughed a lot over the kids' comments. They are observant though we fooled them.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I love Ayn Rand. My Dad gave Atlas Shrugged to me when I was 13 and it made a lasting impression on me. It was a motivating force which I can thank. I in turn gave it to our children. There is an Ayn Rand Foundation which gives scholarships to high school students for their research writings.

What a gal. She was far ahead of all the women's libbers.



Knit crazy said:


> My guess is Ayn Rand because Huck keeps harping on her. She wrote Atlas Shrugged. If you haven't seen the movie, I recommend you visit Red Box and rent it.
> 
> She died in 1982, was originally from Russia, lived through the Revolution, escaped tk America, became a Hollywood screenwriter, and knew the evil of Communism. Huck must really hate her, but that is the anarchist and Communist in her.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Any type of theocracy spells trouble. I most definitely would not like to live under Sharia, but the Christian version sounds just as bad.
> 
> I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We dont want equal time. We dont want pluralism. Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana 8/16/93


I'm from Indiana and don't know who Terry is. Can you find a more recognizable example? You are digging for odd balls, when real human heroes are everywhere.

News Flash! This is a Christian nation. It was formed by Christians, developed by Christian values, and is protected by Christ. This nation is unique because it was based on Christian values, but the founders didn't mandate you become Christian. They even legislated separation of church and state because they had experienced religious persecution. No governmental entity will kill you if you are not the majority religion. Respect for all religious values is protected. If you are religious, no one will send you to exile, like the Communists sent millions to Siberia to die. No brash dictator will send you to a concentration camp for being Jewish. America never has been a theocracy. Look at Iran, that's a Theocracy, as is most of the Middle East.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes it is Ayn Rand. Huck could learn a lot by reading her.



Knit crazy said:


> My guess is Ayn Rand because Huck keeps harping on her. She wrote Atlas Shrugged. If you haven't seen the movie, I recommend you visit Red Box and rent it.
> 
> She died in 1982, was originally from Russia, lived through the Revolution, escaped tk America, became a Hollywood screenwriter, and knew the evil of Communism. Huck must really hate her, but that is the anarchist and Communist in her.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the bathroom I re-did for my girlfriend. It was a challenge as she requested colorful, pretty and elegant. Yet, the room is very narrow, and I wanted to keep the colors light.
> 
> She chose the shower curtain, and I took it from there (with her wishes in mind). The sink is the most expensive item ($900) but really makes the room I think. I love the wastebasket too.
> 
> ...


That is lovely. You do great work.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Just like naughty pre-teens. And bad bad bullies. It's no mystery from where these present day bullies get their behavior. Parent role models.



Knit crazy said:


> That's the joy! They are exposing themselves and don't realize it. If they could control the selves, we wouldn't have to fuss with them regularly.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Mine's clean. I have never committed murder. Your math is faulty and your stats incomplete. Are you sure you know what you are reading on the web?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> That is lovely. You do great work.


Thank you. My work was simple, and I was given a pretty shower curtain from which to create.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

What do they know? I love, love , love the colors. Alsolike the way you framed some of the fabric and put beads on for a more elegant look in the bathroom. And truly it is difficult to decorate small spaces. Your friends bathroom give the appearance of clean space. Nice. result.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you. The walls are light violet and navy blue with black dining room table and hutch, etc. I wanted Halloween, but not skeletons and witches. Pretty but seasonal in particular colors was my goal.
> 
> The store clerk thought I was nuts buying the colors I did.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I'm from Indiana and don't know who Terry is. Can you find a more recognizable example? You are digging for odd balls, when real human heroes are everywhere.


Frankly I'm amazed you don't recognize Randall Terry's name--he's the founder of Operation Rescue (a notorious anti-abortion group) and, more recently, was arrested for violating a no-trespassing order on the campus of the University of Notre Dame when he tried to protest a visit by Obama.

As for these Christian theocrats--yes, they are seen as screwballs and, if we're fortunate, they'll always be viewed a such. Here's another:

"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness. But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ." From The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action by George Grant, published in 1987 by Dominion Press


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> What do they know? I love, love , love the colors. Alsolike the way you framed some of the fabric and put beads on for a more elegant look in the bathroom. And truly it is difficult to decorate small spaces. Your friends bathroom give the appearance of clean space. Nice. result.


Thank you RU! I went back to the store today as my sister wanted some of the flowers I bought for BF's living room. I showed the same clerk a photo of my decorated mantle and she loved it. Goes to show what some people cannot imagine would look great with what is in front of them.

The boards are fussy-cut pieces from a second shower curtain as is the valance. I covered canvases (for painting) with muslin (the SC was see-through) and added padding and stretched tightly and stapled to back of frame. Finished with paper backings, screw-eyes and wire for hanging.

Hey - the Libs should make some fabric boards. Lots and lots of stretching themselves, stapling and hammering. A good way for them to release their hate and frustrations.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I'm from Indiana and don't know who Terry is. Can you find a more recognizable example? You are digging for odd balls, when real human heroes are everywhere.


She's a screwball herself and thinks the Christians on this thread are Fundamentalists and agree with all the nut jobs she seeks and quotes. She believes we agree with and follow anyone in their beliefs, anyone she chooses to quote.

An extremist is an extremist and a nut job is a nut job in any religion or race.

Not to mention, she is an extreme Liberal who supposedly only posts on the liberal threads. Yet, she insists on posting here to incite and cause controversy.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

I had a home misadventure a few years ago. We were renovating the bathroom and had a mirror leaning up against a wall until it could be re-hung. Hubby was working out of town and I decided to vacuum so I wanted to move the mirror. I tripped and fell flat on my chest still holding the mirror, knocked the air right out of me. There I was laying on a million shards of glass; no pain and no blood so slowly got up. My only injury was a small cut on my left fore arm, but it took hours to clean up the glass. Vacuuming was a bad idea.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I had a home misadventure a few years ago. We were renovating the bathroom and had a mirror leaning up against a wall until it could be re-hung. Hubby was working out of town and I decided to vacuum so I wanted to move the mirror. I tripped and fell flat on my chest still holding the mirror, knocked the air right out of me. There I was laying on a million shards of glass; no pain and no blood so slowly got up. My only injury was a small cut on my left fore arm, but it took hours to clean up the glass. Vacuuming was a bad idea.


Oh, no. At least you didn't hurt yourself badly and got to see your graceful fall. Not all of us get that opportunity. :-D


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She's a screwball herself and thinks the Christians on this thread are Fundamentalists and agree with all the nut jobs she seeks and quotes. She believes we agree with and follow anyone in their beliefs, anyone she chooses to quote.
> 
> An extremist is an extremist and a nut job is a nut job in any religion or race.
> 
> Not to mention, she is an extreme Liberal who supposedly only posts on the liberal threads. Yet, she insists on posting here to incite and cause controversy.


You sound pretty extreme there yourself, KPG. In fact I was hoping some of the "Garden of Friendship" magic dust had blown onto the other political threads. Obviously not.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You sound pretty extreme there yourself, KPG. In fact I was hoping some of the "Garden of Friendship" magic dust had blown onto the other political threads. Obviously not.


You will never and have never defined me. You cannot even post without insulting me and cannot even ascertain my gender because of your hate. You call me every name you can think of and insult me every turn you can. Ask me if I care ...

Go post in your P.O.V. Liberal and L.O.L.L. threads were you're amongst friends and those who accept and replicate your vicious posts.

BTW: this thread was begun by a gentle and kind soul who follows conservative ideals and beliefs mostly agreeing with those on the Right. You are not at home nor is your hate welcome on this thread.

Here's a tip: start your own thread titled, "Shallow Plantings"


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You will never and have never defined me. You cannot even post without insulting me and cannot even ascertain my gender because of your hate. You call me every name you can think of and insult me every turn you can. Ask me if I care ...
> 
> Go post in your P.O.V. Liberal and L.O.L.L. threads were you're amongst friends and those who accept your replicate your vicious posts.
> 
> ...


Someone's certainly cranky tonight.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> MIB, is that your "signature" in caps at the end of your post?


Why, yes, indeed it is. I think it's appropriate since all the topics that started with some sort of political orientation have turned into places where people showcase the contempt they have for each other, often in terms that come from the gutter and ought to have been left there. Topics like this are like Rome so I'm doing as the Romans do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Someone's certainly cranky tonight.


Not at all - I choose joy! So should you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Must be the new Math;
> 
> 90% of all murders + 80% of all murders = 170% of all murders
> 
> ...


Joeysoamma
Now you prove that language and Math you know little or perhaps nothing about. Who spoke about "all". I know it is tough to keep up with the fine points of language.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Must be the new Math;
> 
> 90% of all murders + 80% of all murders = 170% of all murders
> 
> ...


joeysomma
who said "all"? Not me. Failing language and Math all at once.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you RU! I went back to the store today as my sister wanted some of the flowers I bought for BF's living room. I showed the same clerk a photo of my decorated mantle and she loved it. Goes to show what some people cannot imagine would look great with what is in front of them.
> 
> The boards are fussy-cut pieces from a second shower curtain as is the valance. I covered canvases (for painting) with muslin (the SC was see-through) and added padding and stretched tightly and stapled to back of frame. Finished with paper backings, screw-eyes and wire for hanging.
> 
> Hey - the Libs should make some fabric boards. Lots and lots of stretching themselves, stapling and hammering. A good way for them to release their hate and frustrations.


KPG
We have advanced to the present day fashions of decorating.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> :?: 90% + 80% is more than 100%
> Violence anywhere in the world is to be deplored


west coast kitty
do any of you folks know anything about language combined with math? Holy smoke you are dumb.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You will never and have never defined me. You cannot even post without insulting me and cannot even ascertain my gender because of your hate. You call me every name you can think of and insult me every turn you can. Ask me if I care ...
> 
> Go post in your P.O.V. Liberal and L.O.L.L. threads were you're amongst friends and those who accept and replicate your vicious posts.
> 
> ...


KPG
when you stay out of our threads we will stay out of yours. You have been invading each and everyone of ours and a friend of ours you certainly are not. Hope you get the message. As to defining you, you have done a splendid job doing that. You have left no doubt Ms. Cherf.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> west coast kitty
> do any of you folks know anything about language combined with math? Holy smoke you are dumb.


Huck - rudeness and bluster don't cover up your own misuse of the language. You don't seem to comprehend your own words ---- 
Huckleberry wrote:
Knit crazy
we have had over 200 mass murders since 2006 in our Country by our People. Over 90% of murders in the USA are black on black and over 80% white on white. Not a record to be proud of is it so keep your nose out of other countries until yours is clean.
------------
Perhaps you could make an effort to clearly state facts rather than the pompous platitudes you've become so well known for


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Hi CB - how was your visit with daughter and grands?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh you are so good at decorating. I really would have like to have seen you lite up the room with your bowling ball. :XD:


It was a theme to go along with the neon beer signs.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I had a home misadventure a few years ago. We were renovating the bathroom and had a mirror leaning up against a wall until it could be re-hung. Hubby was working out of town and I decided to vacuum so I wanted to move the mirror. I tripped and fell flat on my chest still holding the mirror, knocked the air right out of me. There I was laying on a million shards of glass; no pain and no blood so slowly got up. My only injury was a small cut on my left fore arm, but it took hours to clean up the glass. Vacuuming was a bad idea.


Lol! "Home misadventure". Ha! I love the term and intend to plagiarize. However, you are fortunate in that you only sustained the small cut.

I put a new switch on my old Hoover vac many years back when we had very little money and what we did have was budgeted so tightly it squeaked. Well, I switched the wires around and the result was when I turned it on I blew out the fuses.  Lesson learned: I am not an electrician.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I had a home misadventure a few years ago. We were renovating the bathroom and had a mirror leaning up against a wall until it could be re-hung. Hubby was working out of town and I decided to vacuum so I wanted to move the mirror. I tripped and fell flat on my chest still holding the mirror, knocked the air right out of me. There I was laying on a million shards of glass; no pain and no blood so slowly got up. My only injury was a small cut on my left fore arm, but it took hours to clean up the glass. Vacuuming was a bad idea.


You were lucky. I, on the other hand, seem to be able to trip and fall for no other excuse that I didn't see an obstacle in front of me. I did that in June and still have a scar on my left shin. I am hoping a little sunning will even it out. I know it will go away before long, but I hate looking at that reminder of my clumsiness.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I'm amazed you don't recognize Randall Terry's name--he's the founder of Operation Rescue (a notorious anti-abortion group) and, more recently, was arrested for violating a no-trespassing order on the campus of the University of Notre Dame when he tried to protest a visit by Obama.
> 
> As for these Christian theocrats--yes, they are seen as screwballs and, if we're fortunate, they'll always be viewed a such. Here's another:
> 
> "Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness. But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ." From The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action by George Grant, published in 1987 by Dominion Press


You get your news from the wrong sites. Never heard of Terry. I doubt very many people have, but I'm not from Fort Wayne. Maybe the guy is just local news. You know, I think the news you get on your liberal electronic news blasts is manipulated misinformation. No wonder that you don't have a good finger on the pulse of this nation or it's people.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You sound pretty extreme there yourself, KPG. In fact I was hoping some of the "Garden of Friendship" magic dust had blown onto the other political threads. Obviously not.


Didn't you understand that the two threads have different parameters. A Garden of Friendship is neutral ground and no political or religious content is welcome. It is a civil place where we can talk without rancor about interests. Yet, you and your friends continue the rancor with attacks.

Denim & Pearls is not neutral. We can share our long-held, deeply felt beliefs. We just disagree with yours. I don 't post on your sites. I don't want to because your politics, lack of religious grounding, and support for evil activities make me feel sick to my stomach. I acknowledge that you have a right to believe what you want. I just don't want to witness you destroying your souls.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> An incompetent coworker was fired from my company a few months ago. I work my butt off for my paycheck and she has to nothing more than pretend to find a job. How fair is that? And she can do that for how long? Unbelievable!


As I stated before, I know someone who takes her unemployment check and gets pedicures and takes people out to lunch....


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the bathroom I re-did for my girlfriend. It was a challenge as she requested colorful, pretty and elegant. Yet, the room is very narrow, and I wanted to keep the colors light.
> 
> She chose the shower curtain, and I took it from there (with her wishes in mind). The sink is the most expensive item ($900) but really makes the room I think. I love the wastebasket too.
> 
> ...


Beautiful!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Personal attacks are over the line. What is ugly is your mouth, your spirit and your intent. Huck, you need to go find a friend. You are not one tow to e here. Find a friend if you have any.


No one wants to be that friend. Ugh.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> when you stay out of our threads we will stay out of yours. You have been invading each and everyone of ours and a friend of ours you certainly are not. Hope you get the message. As to defining you, you have done a splendid job doing that. You have left no doubt Ms. Cherf.


I must say that language and math are combined in school systems across the country. They are integrated.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No one wants to be that friend. Ugh.


Bullies generally only associate with other bullies or those that are weak minded and therefore easily manipulated. I _wouldn't be nor am I_ one of those types.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Bullies generally only associate with other bullies or those that are weak minded and therefore easily manipulated. I _wouldn't be nor am I_ one of those types.


A bully is so very weak. Yes, those that associate are weak as well in their own way. Very sad that they are on this site. Pollution at its worst.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I love Ayn Rand. My Dad gave Atlas Shrugged to me when I was 13 and it made a lasting impression on me. It was a motivating force which I can thank. I in turn gave it to our children. There is an Ayn Rand Foundation which gives scholarships to high school students for their research writings.
> 
> What a gal. She was far ahead of all the women's libbers.


She was required reading when I went to college. One of the best classes that I took was a political science course, "The American Experience Through Film and Fiction." We didn't read Rand, but she was supplemental reading. I'd already read her for another course.

The great course was lots of American-themed reading. We'd read a book, such as "All The Kings Men" by Robert Penn Warren, then write an essay on how it illuminated the American experience. I think of that course content often. That particular book, written in 1946 was a Pulitzer prize-winner and was one that I think parallels the Obama reign of terror.

In the book, the main character, Willie Stark, rises from poor white trash parents, forms a goal of entering politics to get power, does, and then corruption reigns. He destroys himself in the process and becomes a joke. Stark comes to embrace various forms of corruption and builds an enormous political machine based on patronage and intimidation. Willie Stark was based on Huey P. Long's rise as Louisiana governor in the 1930's.

The only differences between Long and Obama are that Obama is half black. The times were different, of course, but both were possible due to economic hard times. The similarities are the level of corruption a man will go to to reach and stay in office.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> She was required reading when I went to college. One of the best classes that I took was a political science course, "The American Experience Through Film and Fiction." We didn't read Rand, but she was supplemental reading. I'd already read her for another course.
> 
> The great course was lots of American-themed reading. We'd read a book, such as "All The Kings Men" by Robert Penn Warren, then write an essay on how it illuminated the American experience. I think of that course content often. That particular book, written in 1946 was a Pulitzer prize-winner and was one that I think parallels the Obama reign of terror.
> 
> ...


That's Obama for you. In another form of government, he'd be a dictator of the worst kind.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Good Morning all bright and Sunny day but so so cold. 
Oh KGP the bathroom is lovely. Love also what the children said. They are smart when young they see what they see and say what they mean. 

Lucy and Knit Crazy you said it better then I could.

WCK can't wait to see cook book, lots of work doing that. But will be much appreciated.

Thinking of asking Admin to delete flower garden and start another site. But just thinking for now. 
Oh my thought of this for you KGP "You lite up my Life". Sorry but still laughing about your adventure. But am so impress with your decorating skill. Really could us you here. Tell everyone am so proud of my decorating skills. Done in early American dump. 
Much like the out door weed gardens had more then one this year. 
It feels very comfortable. Plus with Kitty long hair all over the place. Just don't wear black and use sofa his main hang out. Even with cover over sofa, he leaves his lovely hair. I bush him ever time he sits on my lap. He does add a fine touch when he gets in knitting bag. Very colorful carpet if I do say so. Plus added advantage of husband tracking in dirt leaves ect from outside. It makes for a lovely mess. Can't touch it for style, Early American Dump.

Oh my breaking mirror is not fun and a bit of a scare too. Glad you did not get hurt.

Know what you mean KC falling is a act and I am very good at it. Trip over my own feet, when need be. 
Good Morning Lucy hope you and hubby are well . How was your vaction? It sounded wonderful.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:

This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)

God's wisdom is seen in the making of an elephant. The four legs of this great beast all bend forward in the same direction. No other quadruped is so made. God planned that this animal would have a huge body, too large to live on two legs. For this reason He gave it four fulcrums so that it can rise from the ground easily.

The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs first. A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first. How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation! God's wisdom is revealed in His arrangement of sections and segments, as well as in the number of grains.

Each watermelon has an even number of stripes on the rind. Each orange has an even number of segments.Each ear of corn has an even number of rows.
Each stalk of wheat has an even number of grains. Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even number and the next row an odd number.

The waves of the sea roll in on shore twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather.

All grains are found in even numbers on the stalks, and the Lord specified thirty fold, sixty fold, and a hundred fold all even numbers.

God has caused the flowers to blossom at certain specified times during the day. Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said that if he had a conservatory containing the right kind of soil, moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers that were open and those that were closed!

The lives of each of you may be ordered by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, if you will only entrust Him with your life. If you try to regulate your own life, it will only be a mess and a failure. Only the One Who made the brain and the heart can successfully guide them to a profitable end.

I HOPE YOU FIND THIS AS FASCINATING AS I DID. May God Bless You In Ways You Never Even Dreamed. I didn't think twice about forwarding this one.

The Bible
When you carry the Bible, Satan has a headache, when you open it, he collapses, when he sees you reading it, he loses his strength, AND when you stand on the Word of God, Satan can't hurt you! And did you also know...
When you are about to share this with others, the devil will probably try to discourage you, but do it anyway.

Life is a special gift from God. Take time to relax and enjoy it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:
> 
> This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
> How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
> ...


Thank you, KC. I have always marveled at what God has accomplished and given to us. John Clayton's _Dandy Designs_ articles have always intrigued me. Here is one that he wrote that you might find interesting.

Useless Horseshoe Crabs

One of the most ancient of the creatures known to man is an ugly animal called the horseshoe crab. Their fossils are found in rocks that predate the dinosaurs. Horseshoe crabs are not true crabs, but are related to another ancient fossil animal, the trilobite. Trilobites became extinct long ago, but horseshoe crabs are still around and are found in many areas of the world.

Horseshoe crabs are not attractive. They are not good to eat. Outside of possible use as fish bait, they might appear to be useless to humans. However, their eggs are an important food for certain migrating shorebirds and fish, and horseshoes are food for the endangered loggerhead sea turtles.

However, the most important direct use for man is in the field of medicine. If you have ever taken a prescription, received an immunization, had a hip or knee replacement, received an organ transplant or even had an IV, you can thank the horseshoe crab for the good that came from that medical treatment.

When bacteria enter the horseshoess body, amebocytes in the blood immediately clot around the bacteria trapping it. Blood from horseshoe crabs is used to test for bacterial endotoxins in pharmaceuticals and in testing for bacterial diseases. If harmful bacteria are present, the blood will form a clot. Horseshoe crabs have been helpful in finding cures for diseases that have developed resistance to drugs.

All attempts to find a man-made substitute for horseshoe crab blood have failed. Horseshoe crabs are captured by medical researchers for the purpose of using their blood for testing. After bleeding they are returned to the ocean. Like humans who give blood, the horseshoe crabs blood supply soon returns to normal. According to Dr. Jim Berkson of the Department of Fisheries and Wildlife Sciences at Virginia Tech, horseshoe crabs are ecologically, economically, and medically essential. Theyre not cute and cuddly and they cant fetch a ball, but the fact is we need them.

Human beings need all of the things God has designed into this world. We may not know the purpose of everything, but ultimately we will probably learn that there is a reason for the existence of every creature. Every time a worthless creature like the horseshoe crab is shown to be uniquely suited to helping humans in our survival on earth, we see another example of the design in the world around us. The Designer knew there was a need for this animal. We are more than lucky to have the horseshoe crab.

References
horseshoe crab, Wikipedia
www.horseshoecrab.org 
www.ocean.udel.edu/horseshoecrab/
www.dnr.state.md.us/education/horseshoecrab/


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Good Morning all bright and Sunny day but so so cold.
> Oh KGP the bathroom is lovely. Love also what the children said. They are smart when young they see what they see and say what they mean.
> 
> Lucy and Knit Crazy you said it better then I could.
> ...


Hi Yarnlady. Thanks for thinking of me. Yes, trip was nice. My husband is having further health problems and I didn't want to go. We went anyway after his MRI came out ok. Next is NYC (week after this) and then a wedding in Washington, D.C. Nov. 9th.

How are you?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:
> 
> This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
> How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
> ...


So interesting! Thank you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Huck - rudeness and bluster don't cover up your own misuse of the language. You don't seem to comprehend your own words ----
> Huckleberry wrote:
> Knit crazy
> we have had over 200 mass murders since 2006 in our Country by our People. Over 90% of murders in the USA are black on black and over 80% white on white. Not a record to be proud of is it so keep your nose out of other countries until yours is clean.
> ...


west coast kitty
obviously you are not in step with the news. And so it goes.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Thank you, KC. I have always marveled at what God has accomplished and given to us. John Clayton's _Dandy Designs_ articles have always intrigued me. Here is one that he wrote that you might find interesting.
> 
> Useless Horseshoe Crabs
> 
> ...


This is amazing to learn. I've never heard of the benefits of the crabs before - awesome is our God!


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> west coast kitty
> obviously you are not in step with the news. And so it goes.


The problem is you get your news from leftist media sources that skew it toward their agenda. Some on the right do it too.

The national print media is leftist, but they regularly choose not to post important topics. They didn't fulfill their traditional role in helping to get Obama and are covering until recently his lack of preparation to be president and his failures in that role.

The cable news channel MSNBC is rabid in its left agenda. Because they are so low in ratings and are trying to fill a niche, they think their position will promote that network. No wonder it is lowest in respect and ratings and is now a media joke.

CNBC is more moderate and measured in their corporate philosophy, but they have more left than right leaning media reporters and analysts. On CNBC a panel usually has a far left analyst, a moderate left analyst, and a somewhat left analyst. That's not balance.

Fox News provides the most comprehensive coverage and does the best at developing dialogue on both sides of an issue. On Fox you would see a left analyst and sometimes that person is a far left analyst, a moderate conservative analyst, and an activist conservative analyst. That's better balance. Plus they do a better job with research.

CNBC and MSNBC throw their news out before they have the facts, and they won't correct it (similar to print media's NY Times). Fox immediately corrects inaccuracies. Plus Fox refuses to support and spread hateful media reports from the other distribution sources or from Twitter.

It is clear from your news reports on this thread where you get your news - MSNBC. Like them you can't discuss rationally, provide real support for your opinions , and like MSNBC, you like to make loud, personal attacks, and you almost scream your rage at every turn.

Don't you realize that makes you look foolish and makes no one want to listen to you? Why have Americans turned off MSNBC? You do the same thing and get the same result. If we wanted your summary of MSNBC spin and propaganda, we turn on that channel and waste our time.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://downtrend.com/jpz/pelosi-says-the-brilliant-obama-is-practically-apolitical-certainly-nonpartisan/


CB, that was very cruel. To post such a picture without warning and without a care of what it would do to our eyes is so very wrong. That image is now etched in my memory forever. Thanks so much. Not even an evening of watching grade D horror movies will erase that image. :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

WendyBee said:


> Your wish is my command
> 
> 
> *Wendy`s autumn spice cake*
> ...


Spice cake is my absolute favorite. A milk chocolate icing will go very nicely, as would a cream cheese frosting. Thanks for posting the recipe.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

WendyBee said:


> Eek!!!


Love it Wendy. I guess being a liberal really sucks the beauty out of you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Urban Legend.



Lukelucy said:


> As I stated before, I know someone who takes her unemployment check and gets pedicures and takes people out to lunch....


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Haven't you noticed that Huck has many friends? I'm proud to count myself among them.



Lukelucy said:


> No one wants to be that friend. Ugh.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh really? I guess it depends on your point of view. I do wish we could find a way to discuss issues civilly.



thumper5316 said:


> Bullies generally only associate with other bullies or those that are weak minded and therefore easily manipulated. I _wouldn't be nor am I_ one of those types.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh KGP the bathroom is lovely. Love also what the children said. They are smart when young they see what they see and say what they mean.
> 
> >>>> So, true. From the mouths of babes ...
> 
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good point! When I'm around, don't be surprised if circles turn into squares!
> 
> So I spent some time again today at my BF's condo along with my sister at BF's place that I'm decorating and decorative painting for her. Today I nearly got electrocuted and what did she and my sister do - laugh! :shock:
> 
> ...


I always thought you had a shocking personality. :lol: :lol:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> Who is this?


Self portrait perhaps?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting point of view in readings. I find Ayn Rand's selfishness distasteful. Get what you want. In a way it seems like a perfect mascot for the Tea Party. Where does religion have a place?



Knit crazy said:


> She was required reading when I went to college. One of the best classes that I took was a political science course, "The American Experience Through Film and Fiction." We didn't read Rand, but she was supplemental reading. I'd already read her for another course.
> 
> The great course was lots of American-themed reading. We'd read a book, such as "All The Kings Men" by Robert Penn Warren, then write an essay on how it illuminated the American experience. I think of that course content often. That particular book, written in 1946 was a Pulitzer prize-winner and was one that I think parallels the Obama reign of terror.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe the rule is that you can ask Admin to delete your postings, no one else's. They must do that.



theyarnlady said:


> Good Morning all bright and Sunny day but so so cold.
> Oh KGP the bathroom is lovely. Love also what the children said. They are smart when young they see what they see and say what they mean.
> 
> Lucy and Knit Crazy you said it better then I could.
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> CB, that was very cruel. To post such a picture without warning and without a care of what it would do to our eyes is so very wrong. That image is now etched in my memory forever. Thanks so much. Not even an evening of watching grade D horror movies will erase that image. :XD: :XD: :XD:


    :-D :-D :-D Hadn't thought of the trauma that image caused, but you are right!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> you ladies have to stop i am running out of depends.


Yarnie, maybe it is time to take the laptop into the bathroom with you. Think of the money you will save not buying depends. Isn't the bathroom considered the "library or office" by some?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I do wish we could find a way to discuss issues civilly.


I challenge you to start, or better yet, follow our lead.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I always thought you had a shocking personality. :lol: :lol:


I get it from you, twin.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FYI, I found a picture someone posted to be offensive to me. I used the "Report Issue" option and asked Admin to remove said picture, and it was removed. Maybe the same thing will work for you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's the mantle I decorated today:


Very pretty. I love the jewel tone colors.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I believe the rule is that you can ask Admin to delete your postings, no one else's. They must do that.


I think the original poster/thread creator can ask Admin to s;hut down the thread.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.

Ayn Rand


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary
I have viewed several interviews Rand gave and can report that her view of the poor of the World was MUCH darker than this picture depicts her. As a drawing it actually makes her look quite good. Her visage was as ugly as her character. Paul Ryan idolizes her and he MADE his Staff read her books. Now that is very telling.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> Ayn Rand


Unless we remove the 2nd Amendment to The Constitution very, very few of us can potentially be "legally disarmed victims". We need to cool down until the current justifiable hysteria over gun crime leads to a tangle of unconstitutional laws unless we don't mind making laws while in a state of hysteria..

Without government at the several levels we have in the US, we would have anarchy because people will not govern their own actions in anything vaguely resembling a positive way. Anarchy doesn't seem very appealing. Neither does Ayn Rand.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


Knit crazy
why not move back into the Stone Age?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Lol! "Home misadventure". Ha! I love the term and intend to plagiarize. However, you are fortunate in that you only sustained the small cut.
> 
> I put a new switch on my old Hoover vac many years back when we had very little money and what we did have was budgeted so tightly it squeaked. Well, I switched the wires around and the result was when I turned it on I blew out the fuses.  Lesson learned: I am not an electrician.


You and KPG sure know how to put on a "light" show!

When my youngest brother was about 5 or 6 he was rolling a penny along the basebboard and then started rolling it up the lamp cord and it ended up between the plug-in and the outlet. There were sparks flying all over the place. I pulled the cord out and the penny was bent and charred. Little brother is handy with many things but still doesn't do electrical work


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You were lucky. I, on the other hand, seem to be able to trip and fall for no other excuse that I didn't see an obstacle in front of me. I did that in June and still have a scar on my left shin. I am hoping a little sunning will even it out. I know it will go away before long, but I hate looking at that reminder of my clumsiness.


I hope you're soaking up the sunshine, we are having a blustery, rainy fall day


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:
> 
> This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
> How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
> ...


That was very interesting, what an amazing world we've been given


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

This is what class sounds like: Rep. Gowdy speaks to a mother and a dad (with daughters) of two of the murdered Americans in Benghazi under Obama's and Hillary's 'stand down' orders.






Remembering Benghazi!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> west coast kitty
> obviously you are not in step with the news. And so it goes.


and you, Huck, obviously still have trouble dealing with facts and reality


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knit crazy
> why not move back into the Stone Age?


Why not listen to someone who experienced government run amok during the Bolshevik revolution. Rand escaped that totalitarianism and the oppression of Russia. She built a new life in America, that beautiful, free country that didn't oppress people systemically. She witnessed during her youth the rise of Hitler, who did take guns from the populace and then incarcerated and killed them. She watched foolish Americans during the McCarthy years crave the type of government she escaped? If you had experienced what she did, you'd have the credits to criticize her. You don't. You are a neophyte compared to Rand in the evil that uncontrolled government brings every time.

If you want the Stone Age, move to the Middle East, which still oppresses the weak and helpless. Try it, if you like that type of government control. You won't need to lobby for it. It is in existence there. Thanks to America's founders, it isn't here despite O-me's foolish desire to put it in place.

People who escaped government oppression are better judges of the fact that "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." The people who wrote our constitution were true intellectuals, who had studied this and witnessed this and wanted America to be different and unique, and it is.

You may not be smart enough or well read enough to understand this, but Ayn Rand did. She lived it first hand.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I hope you're soaking up the sunshine, we are having a blustery, rainy fall day


Spent some time at the beach today. The ocean was rough, however, so we didn't try that. I think a weather system is moving in and it might rain tonight. Relaxing here and enjoying our time together.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Unless we remove the 2nd Amendment to The Constitution very, very few of us can potentially be "legally disarmed victims". We need to cool down until the current justifiable hysteria over gun crime leads to a tangle of unconstitutional laws unless we don't mind making laws while in a state of hysteria..
> 
> Without government at the several levels we have in the US, we would have anarchy because people will not govern their own actions in anything vaguely resembling a positive way. Anarchy doesn't seem very appealing. Neither does Ayn Rand.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savages whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

Ayn Rand


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The United States is a unique test of democracy. The pendulum has swung from McCarthyism to the New Deal and everything in between. Americans are known as generous, caring people. That trait is being lost to many. Great changes may be coming to us. We may not like them.



Knit crazy said:


> Why not listen to someone who experienced government run amok during the Bolshevik revolution. Rand escaped that totalitarianism and the oppression of Russia. She built a new life in America, that beautiful, free country that didn't oppress people systemically. She witnessed during her youth the rise of Hitler, who did take guns from the populace and then incarcerated and killed them. She watched foolish Americans during the McCarthy years crave the type of government she escaped? If you had experienced what she did, you'd have the credits to criticize her. You don't. You are a neophyte compared to Rand in the evil that uncontrolled government brings every time.
> 
> If you want the Stone Age, move to the Middle East, which still oppresses the weak and helpless. Try it, if you like that type of government control. You won't need to lobby for it. It is in existence there. Thanks to America's founders, it isn't here despite O-me's foolish desire to put it in place.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My question is, 'What did Ayn Rand learn from her experiences?'

I think, 'no man is an island.' She thinks, 'me first and only.'



Knit crazy said:


> Why not listen to someone who experienced government run amok during the Bolshevik revolution. Rand escaped that totalitarianism and the oppression of Russia. She built a new life in America, that beautiful, free country that didn't oppress people systemically. She witnessed during her youth the rise of Hitler, who did take guns from the populace and then incarcerated and killed them. She watched foolish Americans during the McCarthy years crave the type of government she escaped? If you had experienced what she did, you'd have the credits to criticize her. You don't. You are a neophyte compared to Rand in the evil that uncontrolled government brings every time.
> 
> If you want the Stone Age, move to the Middle East, which still oppresses the weak and helpless. Try it, if you like that type of government control. You won't need to lobby for it. It is in existence there. Thanks to America's founders, it isn't here despite O-me's foolish desire to put it in place.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go build your own highway system? Dig your own well? Protect your home yourself? Doesn't sound like it's worth it to me.



 Knit crazy said:


> Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savages whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
> 
> Ayn Rand


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Hi CB - how was your visit with daughter and grands?


I just got back about an hour ago. Tried to go online to talk but my 6yo wanted my attention. He made a touch down in his football game Saturday morn. The movie star grandson had his birthday pie last night too. Daughter and sil treated us to supper at the local steak house. She also cooked ribs for us last night. On Friday we went to a local Mennonite diner . The ladies had built a nice place. Yes I said they built it out of an old barn from up North somewhere. Pine floors , oak furniture. Ate off enamelware plates. They had homemade pies and all kind of yummy sandwiches. Of course the service and food was great. After that we went into Bentonville where we went to the orginial Sam Walton's store. We saw his truck and his museum. WE then ate at his soda fountain. Got a cute pic of my youngest gs sitting in a kids booth reading a book with chocolate all over his sweet little face. He has tons of curls and is a doll. It had turned cooler so it was so nice. Got to see a lot of flowers on the town squares. So we had a nice visit. Thanks for asking WCK . Sad to come home to all the trouble makers still trying to get attention. I am just passing over them. A lot of pages to read being gone since Thursday. Missed everyone of my friends.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Sad to come home to all the trouble makers still trying to get attention. I am just passing over them. A lot of pages to read being gone since Thursday. Missed everyone of my friends.


As we did you. Sounds like you enjoyed your time with your family. Welcome home.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:
> 
> This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
> How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thank you, KC. I have always marveled at what God has accomplished and given to us. John Clayton's _Dandy Designs_ articles have always intrigued me. Here is one that he wrote that you might find interesting.
> 
> Useless Horseshoe Crabs
> 
> ...


Thanks Thumper. I didn't know that. Agree with you and Knit Crazy God is Awesome.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi Yarnlady. Thanks for thinking of me. Yes, trip was nice. My husband is having further health problems and I didn't want to go. We went anyway after his MRI came out ok. Next is NYC (week after this) and then a wedding in Washington, D.C. Nov. 9th.
> 
> How are you?


What are you going to wear to the wedding? Good to know Dh's test came out ok.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> CB, that was very cruel. To post such a picture without warning and without a care of what it would do to our eyes is so very wrong. That image is now etched in my memory forever. Thanks so much. Not even an evening of watching grade D horror movies will erase that image. :XD: :XD: :XD:


Sorry about that. I was scared myself when I saw it. I am still having nightmares. :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You and KPG sure know how to put on a "light" show!
> 
> When my youngest brother was about 5 or 6 he was rolling a penny along the basebboard and then started rolling it up the lamp cord and it ended up between the plug-in and the outlet. There were sparks flying all over the place. I pulled the cord out and the penny was bent and charred. Little brother is handy with many things but still doesn't do electrical work


Oh that is scary. I am glad you didn't hurt yourself too bad with the mirror or KPG with the bowling ball. Sorry but I had to laugh. Those things happen way to much to me. I hung a shirt on a metal clothers hanger on my hall lamp one time. Got my pinkie in the bulb and it sent shock all the way down my body and came out my toe. Had a burnt toe from it. Knocked my flip flop off my foot.  Your brother lucky he wasn't hurt either. BOYS!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.


AMN, AMEN, Amen!!!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Have any of you noticed the adv bar for Hillary for President where you also see Bill and Chelsea? It that a sideburn on Hillary?  

Me thinks it is not flattering and Huma wouldn't care for it either.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I just got back about an hour ago. Tried to go online to talk but my 6yo wanted my attention. He made a touch down in his football game Saturday morn. The movie star grandson had his birthday pie last night too. Daughter and sil treated us to supper at the local steak house. She also cooked ribs for us last night. On Friday we went to a local Mennonite diner . The ladies had built a nice place. Yes I said they built it out of an old barn from up North somewhere. Pine floors , oak furniture. Ate off enamelware plates. They had homemade pies and all kind of yummy sandwiches. Of course the service and food was great. After that we went into Bentonville where we went to the orginial Sam Walton's store. We saw his truck and his museum. WE then ate at his soda fountain. Got a cute pic of my youngest gs sitting in a kids booth reading a book with chocolate all over his sweet little face. He has tons of curls and is a doll. It had turned cooler so it was so nice. Got to see a lot of flowers on the town squares. So we had a nice visit. Thanks for asking WCK . Sad to come home to all the trouble makers still trying to get attention. I am just passing over them. A lot of pages to read being gone since Thursday. Missed everyone of my friends.


Sounds like a wonderful visit and lots of fun with the grands too. I bet 6 yo will remember you being there for his touchdown. My dad has gone to almost all my nephew's soccer games for the last 14 years and nephew still looks for "Opa" in the stands.

Too bad about the juvenile games played by some of the libs but at least it was easy to pass them by. It's more disappointing that they feel it's ok to disrupt other topics with their nasty comments. There were some nice, friendly posts on Yarnie's Garden thread until they got started there.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh that is scary. I am glad you didn't hurt yourself too bad with the mirror or KPG with the bowling ball. Sorry but I had to laugh. Those things happen way to much to me. I hung a shirt on a metal clothers hanger on my hall lamp one time. Got my pinkie in the bulb and it sent shock all the way down my body and came out my toe. Had a burnt toe from it. Knocked my flip flop off my foot.  Your brother lucky he wasn't hurt either. BOYS!


That's too scary, glad it wasn't worse than a burnt toe. You can now join KPG and Thumper in the "Light Show Team"


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What are you going to wear to the wedding? Good to know Dh's test came out ok.


Hi CB. Good to hear from you. It's a different kind of wedding setup. Wedding is at 12:00 noon on a Sat. That is one dress - will be to my knees. Then I think (not sure) a lunch for some people (older ones who cannot stay up late). Then at 7:30 at night, there is a formal reception with "light fare, cocktails, dessert". I will wear a purple, Ralph Lauren to the floor slinky jersey dress with (not real) rhinestone earrings and bracelet. Nothing on my neck because there is something on the dress. It is a very nice dress that I bought on sale for only $57.00, if you can believe it. It is really a gorgeous dress and I got one of the last ones online. I lucked out because I went looking right away instead of waiting. I bought it last spring. It's not on the internet any more.

How are you??


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

THANKS to KPG for insisting I buy a slow cooker -- and to all you others who sang the praises of this little appliance. With today being cold, rainy and windy I decided to make soup. The aroma has been mouthwatering the last couple of hours and hubby and I snuck a little taste and it's delicious. A great addition to the kitchen. Why was I so late catching on??


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> THANKS to KPG for insisting I buy a slow cooker -- and to all you others who sang the praises of this little appliance. With today being cold, rainy and windy I decided to make soup. The aroma has been mouthwatering the last couple of hours and hubby and I snuck a little taste and it's delicious. A great addition to the kitchen. Why was I so late catching on??


Hurray hurray hurray. You will wonder how you ever went so long without one WCK. It`s perfect for cooler weather cooking. I`m so happy you bought one. 
It`s the perfect weather to make chili. Will buy the ingrediants next week.

My son bought me a used waffle iron from the thrift store earlier this week for only $2. I won`t make any waffles til next weekend, so am surfing recipe sites looking for waffle batter recipes.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> This is what class sounds like: Rep. Gowdy speaks to a mother and a dad (with daughters) of two of the murdered Americans in Benghazi under Obama's and Hillary's 'stand down' orders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh KGP this made me cry. It is so sad to think about it. To see Gowdy even starting to cry. so many hurt, but those parents have the worse pain not knowing what happen to their sons.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Spent some time at the beach today. The ocean was rough, however, so we didn't try that. I think a weather system is moving in and it might rain tonight. Relaxing here and enjoying our time together.


envy you lady glad you are enjoying your self.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I just got back about an hour ago. Tried to go online to talk but my 6yo wanted my attention. He made a touch down in his football game Saturday morn. The movie star grandson had his birthday pie last night too. Daughter and sil treated us to supper at the local steak house. She also cooked ribs for us last night. On Friday we went to a local Mennonite diner . The ladies had built a nice place. Yes I said they built it out of an old barn from up North somewhere. Pine floors , oak furniture. Ate off enamelware plates. They had homemade pies and all kind of yummy sandwiches. Of course the service and food was great. After that we went into Bentonville where we went to the orginial Sam Walton's store. We saw his truck and his museum. WE then ate at his soda fountain. Got a cute pic of my youngest gs sitting in a kids booth reading a book with chocolate all over his sweet little face. He has tons of curls and is a doll. It had turned cooler so it was so nice. Got to see a lot of flowers on the town squares. So we had a nice visit. Thanks for asking WCK . Sad to come home to all the trouble makers still trying to get attention. I am just passing over them. A lot of pages to read being gone since Thursday. Missed everyone of my friends.


Glad your back and that you have good memories. Seems you had a bit of fun too.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


Knit crazy
Move to where there is no government. Bon Voyage.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Chili sounds good. It is to be in the lower 40's here tonight.


Same here with the temperature joeysomma. Yesterday I was wearing a tshirt and shorts. Today I`m wearing a sweater and sweat pants.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Self portrait perhaps?


soloweygirl
Ayn Rand's picture is a reflection of her inner self. Dark and ugly. Those here who embrace her confirmed that they are Chinos. She rejected faith and religion.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> THANKS to KPG for insisting I buy a slow cooker -- and to all you others who sang the praises of this little appliance. With today being cold, rainy and windy I decided to make soup. The aroma has been mouthwatering the last couple of hours and hubby and I snuck a little taste and it's delicious. A great addition to the kitchen. Why was I so late catching on??


Yeah! I knew you'd love it. Have I sent you all the recipes I've posted on KP to date? LMK


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB. Good to hear from you. It's a different kind of wedding setup. Wedding is at 12:00 noon on a Sat. That is one dress - will be to my knees. Then I think (not sure) a lunch for some people (older ones who cannot stay up late). Then at 7:30 at night, there is a formal reception with "light fare, cocktails, dessert". I will wear a purple, Ralph Lauren to the floor slinky jersey dress with (not real) rhinestone earrings and bracelet. Nothing on my neck because there is something on the dress. It is a very nice dress that I bought on sale for only $57.00, if you can believe it. It is really a gorgeous dress and I got one of the last ones online. I lucked out because I went looking right away instead of waiting. I bought it last spring. It's not on the internet any more.
> 
> How are you??


Your dress sounds pretty LL - I'm sure you'll look beautiful that day.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> Hurray hurray hurray. You will wonder how you ever went so long without one WCK. It`s perfect for cooler weather cooking. I`m so happy you bought one.
> It`s the perfect weather to make chili. Will buy the ingrediants next week.
> 
> My son bought me a used waffle iron from the thrift store earlier this week for only $2. I won`t make any waffles til next weekend, so am surfing recipe sites looking for waffle batter recipes.


Oh, Wendy, I'm so glad you now have your waffle iron. I completely forget to check to see if I had my unused one. Have fun with your new appliance!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh KGP this made me cry. It is so sad to think about it. To see Gowdy even starting to cry. so many hurt, but those parents have the worse pain not knowing what happen to their sons.


I know. To think the premier leader of our Nation and the VP and Sec of State all lied to the family members about the deaths of their children who were murdered by their very actions. It makes my stomach turn. I certainly hope accountability will be forthcoming.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Chili sounds good. It is to be in the lower 40's here tonight.


We had chili for lunch today.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Thanks for remembering KPG...the thought was lovely, and I won`t forget your kindness.
I`m going to make a ton of waffles and freeze then for future use. I can see already that it will be my most used appliance this fall and winter - apart from my Salad Shooter and Crock Pot.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi CB. Good to hear from you. It's a different kind of wedding setup. Wedding is at 12:00 noon on a Sat. That is one dress - will be to my knees. Then I think (not sure) a lunch for some people (older ones who cannot stay up late). Then at 7:30 at night, there is a formal reception with "light fare, cocktails, dessert". I will wear a purple, Ralph Lauren to the floor slinky jersey dress with (not real) rhinestone earrings and bracelet. Nothing on my neck because there is something on the dress. It is a very nice dress that I bought on sale for only $57.00, if you can believe it. It is really a gorgeous dress and I got one of the last ones online. I lucked out because I went looking right away instead of waiting. I bought it last spring. It's not on the internet any more.
> 
> How are you??


Wow that sounds like a full day of wedding. Dress sounds beautiful. Love purple. Will you be wearing a shawl that you make?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> THANKS to KPG for insisting I buy a slow cooker -- and to all you others who sang the praises of this little appliance. With today being cold, rainy and windy I decided to make soup. The aroma has been mouthwatering the last couple of hours and hubby and I snuck a little taste and it's delicious. A great addition to the kitchen. Why was I so late catching on??


I am so glad you like it since we pushed you into it.  But you are not suppose to sneak a taste. :lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> Hurray hurray hurray. You will wonder how you ever went so long without one WCK. It`s perfect for cooler weather cooking. I`m so happy you bought one.
> It`s the perfect weather to make chili. Will buy the ingrediants next week.
> 
> My son bought me a used waffle iron from the thrift store earlier this week for only $2. I won`t make any waffles til next weekend, so am surfing recipe sites looking for waffle batter recipes.


The trick to good waffles is to use club soda or Seven Up. Makes the waffles so light and fluffy. I just use a Bisquick or any mix but use the Seven Up in place of the milk. You will love them. Also if your waffle iron has flat panels you can make good hot sandwiches. Or you can make cornbread waffles for supper using a box of corn muffin mix. Don't forget to use Pam and let the grill heat up.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your dress sounds pretty LL - I'm sure you'll look beautiful that day.


Thank you!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Wow that sounds like a full day of wedding. Dress sounds beautiful. Love purple. Will you be wearing a shawl that you make?


The woman at the store said no knits. I guess they are too casual for the dress. I'll have a black Pashmina shawl. My husband will be in a tux.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> The woman at the store said no knits. I guess they are too casual for the dress. I'll have a black Pashmina shawl. My husband will be in a tux.


Sounds like you'll be a very good looking couple!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sounds like you'll be a very good looking couple!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

WendyBee said:


> Hurray hurray hurray. You will wonder how you ever went so long without one WCK. It`s perfect for cooler weather cooking. I`m so happy you bought one.
> It`s the perfect weather to make chili. Will buy the ingrediants next week.
> 
> My son bought me a used waffle iron from the thrift store earlier this week for only $2. I won`t make any waffles til next weekend, so am surfing recipe sites looking for waffle batter recipes.


Are you going to treat your son to waffles for brunch on the weeked? He should have his favourites for getting you such a good deal.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am so glad you like it since we pushed you into it.  But you are not suppose to sneak a taste. :lol:


  I'll blame it on hubby - he insisted that it needed a proper taste test


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Whatever trips your trigger.



joeysomma said:


> We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> SURE you do, that's why you and all your fools of Libs friends are here. Because NO ONE likes you and your buddies and refuses to respond to you or go onto your Liberal Point-of-View (P.O.V. Liberal) or L.O.L.L. (Ladies of the Liberal Left) threads. NOBODY CARES TO listen to your hate, evil and crap.
> 
> *All good folks on KP* - please ignore all the foolish Libs who are intent on trashing every thread where they see contented and pleasant KP members posting and forming friendships with one another. The Libs are incapable of doing the same.
> 
> Please post on this thread we many of us have found peace and formed friendships and learn and enjoy posting to one another.


That really hurt my feelings, KPG. But thanks for the offer although in your own words, we don't need permission to post in any thread. You have described your very own behavior above. If a 'Lib" starts a topic, you are there with your little minions.
Actually we took a vacation together this summer and have formed even stronger friendships by doing so.
Sorry to prove you wrong once again!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. To think the premier leader of our Nation and the VP and Sec of State all lied to the family members about the deaths of their children who were murdered by their very actions. It makes my stomach turn. I certainly hope accountability will be forthcoming.


Yes, KPG, it was Obama, Joe Biden, and Hilary Clinton all dressed in robes disguised as Libyan terrorists who killed the 4 people in Benghazi. There you have it.
For God's sake woman/man! The terrorists killed them! 
What more do you need to know? As sad as it is, that is pure fact.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

After hearing you complain that you were spammed, Knit Crazy, while it wasn't spam at all. It was very informative articles that we thought you might be interested in reading.
But to not make you look like a liar.....You have just been 
Spammed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh, Thumper, you may want to hold off on the vulgar PM's.
You turned me in for using a--. Your language would make a 
long shoreman blush.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh, Thumper, you may want to hold off on the vulgar PM's.
> You turned me in for using a--. Your language would make a
> long shoreman blush.


Wow! What did she say?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> After hearing you complain that you were spammed, Knit Crazy, while it wasn't spam at all. It was very informative articles that we thought you might be interested in reading.
> But to not make you look like a liar.....You have just been
> Spammed.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh, Thumper, you may want to hold off on the vulgar PM's.
> You turned me in for using a--. Your language would make a
> long shoreman blush.


Bratty Patty
what is most disturbing is that she works with old People. Being so verbally filthy, how does she speak to them when they are not following her directions? Her outbursts must be horrible. Frightening scenario isn't it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember West Texas.



BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, KPG, it was Obama, Joe Biden, and Hilary Clinton all dressed in robes disguised as Libyan terrorists who killed the 4 people in Benghazi. There you have it.
> For God's sake woman/man! The terrorists killed them!
> What more do you need to know? As sad as it is, that is pure fact.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She called Huck a f...b....! Bad, bad.



susanmos2000 said:


> Wow! What did she say?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> She called Huck a f...b....! Bad, bad.


No question about it. Where's the Time Out chair?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> what is most disturbing is that she works with old People. Being so verbally filthy, how does she speak to them when they are not following her directions? Her outbursts must be horrible. Frightening scenario isn't it.


Very frightening....


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> Ayn Rand's picture is a reflection of her inner self. Dark and ugly. Those here who embrace her confirmed that they are Chinos. She rejected faith and religion.


But so do you. I imagine growing up in a Communist or Socialist country might explain that.

Actually you are wrong about Ayn Rand and religion. I think she wanted to be a believer.

When I die, I hope to go to Heaven, whatever the Hell that is.

Ayn Rand


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, KPG, it was Obama, Joe Biden, and Hilary Clinton all dressed in robes disguised as Libyan terrorists who killed the 4 people in Benghazi. There you have it.
> For God's sake woman/man! The terrorists killed them!
> What more do you need to know? As sad as it is, that is pure fact.


Obama and Hillary were responsible for lax security at that station despite being made aware of the shortcomings. Biden is just stupid enough to not know what was happening. I doubt O-me briefs him on anything.

Then, when terrorists attacked, O-me and Hillary refused to send help that was available because acknowledging that Al-Quaeda was on the rise didn't fit O-me's political fantasy he was selling during the election. Then, craven cowards that they are, O-me and Hillary couldn't watch what was occurring there even though it was streaming into the WH on live feed.

Both O-me and Hillary missed that 3 am call. Then, they created the obvious lie to sell to the American public. They think you and the rest of America are stupid. If you believed them, you are.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Ayn Rand


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Welcome back CB you were missed.

Oh Crock pot and waffles and the morning is just starting. Hungry here. 

Off for breakfast hubby want to go to a certian restaurant as they have a special he wants to try.

chili sounds good maybe will have to make it soon.

Weather changing again warming up. No one told the trees ect. as they are starting to change color. 

Waiting for greese to fly by in v formation. Have not seen any yet.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> But so do you. I imagine growing up in a Communist or Socialist country might explain that.
> 
> Actually you are wrong about Ayn Rand and religion. I think she wanted to be a believer.
> 
> ...


I have never read her must look at library.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

What was the name of the book or was it a movie that mention what the further would be like?? I can't remember the name but think it was titled with the year???19 something. Read it once would like to read it again.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> What was the name of the book or was it a movie that mention what the further would be like?? I can't remember the name but think it was titled with the year???19 something. Read it once would like to read it again.


Animal Farm. Then there is 1984. Both by George Orwell


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> Animal Farm. Then there is 1984. Both by George Orwell


Thanks Wendy that is the one, and have not read Animal Farm must do that too.

Hope your morning is starting out well.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Thanks Wendy that is the one, and have not read Animal Farm must do that too.


Heehee....definitely, Clover!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Welcome back CB you were missed.
> 
> Oh Crock pot and waffles and the morning is just starting. Hungry here.
> 
> ...


Thanks Yarnie. I missed y'all too. Temps have dropped a little. There was a fire down south that trapped a deer hunter. He was surrounded by fire. The 911 operator talked him out of the fire. The fire was all around him. He was about to give up but she lead him out of the fire. He went to church for the first time Sunday and gave his life to Jesus. It was all on the local news. Very touching to hear him tell of his near death experience. PTL Enjoy your breakfast Yarnie. I have already been to the dentist with Dh. Now for my coffee.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thanks Yarnie. I missed y'all too. Temps have dropped a little. There was a fire down south that trapped a deer hunter. He was surrounded by fire. The 911 operator talked him out of the fire. The fire was all around him. He was about to give up but she lead him out of the fire. He went to church for the first time Sunday and gave his life to Jesus. It was all on the local news. Very touching to hear him tell of his near death experience. PTL Enjoy your breakfast Yarnie. I have already been to the dentist with Dh. Now for my coffee.


no breakfast he changed his mind lunch out instead. 
Have to go to dentist soon :thumbdown: 
He was blessed he lived and knew who to turn too.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> When I die, I hope to go to Heaven, whatever the Hell that is.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Obama and Hillary were responsible for lax security at that station despite being made aware of the shortcomings. Biden is just stupid enough to not know what was happening. I doubt O-me briefs him on anything.
> 
> Then, when terrorists attacked, O-me and Hillary refused to send help that was available because acknowledging that Al-Quaeda was on the rise didn't fit O-me's political fantasy he was selling during the election. Then, craven cowards that they are, O-me and Hillary couldn't watch what was occurring there even though it was streaming into the WH on live feed.
> 
> Both O-me and Hillary missed that 3 am call. Then, they created the obvious lie to sell to the American public. They think you and the rest of America are stupid. If you believed them, you are.


You forgot to mention that O-me gave the order to 'stand down.' Which is the *first * time in American history that servicemen did not go in to help or retrieve their fellow serviceman. In fact, two of the heroes defied O-me's order, Commander Han and a seal, and one lost his commission and the other his life. I believe Petreus also gave up his job as he refused to go along with O'me and Hill's lie and succumb to their blackmail of him.

O-me and Hill will be held responsible for their Kabuki Dance.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The trick to good waffles is to use club soda or Seven Up. Makes the waffles so light and fluffy. I just use a Bisquick or any mix but use the Seven Up in place of the milk. You will love them. Also if your waffle iron has flat panels you can make good hot sandwiches. Or you can make cornbread waffles for supper using a box of corn muffin mix. Don't forget to use Pam and let the grill heat up.


Excellent tips..thank you so much Bumpy. I have a few boxes of corn bread mix in the pantry. I had planned to make some lemon waffles. I made them years ago when I had a waffle iron, but it got lost when we moved house.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Are you going to treat your son to waffles for brunch on the weeked? He should have his favourites for getting you such a good deal.


Most definately coasty. He will be stopping by this weekend, so he will have stacks of waffles a mile high on his plate - plus more to take home to freeze too.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

re: waffles.
I was thinking about this last night. The next time I buy pancake syrup, I`ll also buy some oranges and lemons. I`ll finely chop the fruit peal, and add them to the syrup bottle when its 1/3 of the way used. I bet over time, the syrup will be wonderful. I`ll buy 2 bottles....1 for the orange syrup, and another for the lemon.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> What was the name of the book or was it a movie that mention what the further would be like?? I can't remember the name but think it was titled with the year???19 something. Read it once would like to read it again.


Atlas Shrugged was her book written in 1967x

Atlas Shrugged (2011) and Atlas Shrugged II (2012) were the movies, which were more recent in time.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> re: waffles.
> I was thinking about this last night. The next time I buy pancake syrup, I`ll also buy some oranges and lemons. I`ll finely chop the fruit peal, and add them to the syrup bottle when its 1/3 of the way used. I bet over time, the syrup will be wonderful. I`ll buy 2 bottles....1 for the orange syrup, and another for the lemon.


Would you just use plain corn syrup? I have a homemade maple syrup if you want it. I use it when I find out I haven't store bought.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Maple Syrup 2 T. of water 1/4 c sugar 1 1/2 c corn syrup 1/2 t maple flavoring Boil for 2 min. Thickens as it cools. I guess you could sub any other flavoring you wanted.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

WendyBee said:


> re: waffles.
> I was thinking about this last night. The next time I buy pancake syrup, I`ll also buy some oranges and lemons. I`ll finely chop the fruit peal, and add them to the syrup bottle when its 1/3 of the way used. I bet over time, the syrup will be wonderful. I`ll buy 2 bottles....1 for the orange syrup, and another for the lemon.


That sounds good. You might be able to chop the lemon peel and fruit, cook the lemon and orange separately in sugar water to soften it before adding the strained fruit or just the infusion to the purchased syrup. They cook lemons that way before straining the fruit and adding vodka or another clear alcohol to make lemoncello. Make sure you don't add much of the sugar water to the syrup or it will thin it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You forgot to mention that O-me gave the order to 'stand down.' Which is the *first * time in American history that servicemen did not go in to help or retrieve their fellow serviceman. In fact, two of the heroes defied O-me's order, Commander Han and a seal, and one lost his commission and the other his life. I believe Petreus also gave up his job as he refused to go along with O'me and Hill's lie and succumb to their blackmail of him.


"Comrades," Napoleon said quietly, "do you know who is responsible for this? Do you know the enemy who has come in the night and overthrown our windmill? SNOWBALL!" he suddenly roared in a voice of thunder.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Comrades," Napoleon said quietly, "do you know who is responsible for this? Do you know the enemy who has come in the night and overthrown our windmill? SNOWBALL!" he suddenly roared in a voice of thunder.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Inside joke, sweetheart. Don't worry yourself.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Comrades," Napoleon said quietly, "do you know who is responsible for this? Do you know the enemy who has come in the night and overthrown our windmill? SNOWBALL!" he suddenly roared in a voice of thunder.


This must be a mistake as it makes no sense. Maybe it was taken out of context?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Inside joke, sweetheart. Don't worry yourself.


The. Why post unintelligible quotes? Just looking to fill space?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Welcome back CB you were missed.
> 
> Oh Crock pot and waffles and the morning is just starting. Hungry here.
> 
> ...


Hope you and hubby enjoy your breakfast date and the warmer day. Still raining and cool here. We have geese on the lake here all year but more of them during the winter. We have swans during the spring and summer but they go south for the winter


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Inside joke, sweetheart. Don't worry yourself.


I am not your sweetheart. Nothing you say worry's me. Just doesn't make a bit of sense. Why are you back on a Christian conservative site anyway? :shock: :roll:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Hope you and hubby enjoy your breakfast date and the warmer day. Still raining and cool here. We have geese on the lake here all year but more of them during the winter. We have swans during the spring and summer but they go south for the winter


That sounds so nice. Never knew that swans migrate. We have Candian geese in our pond and a few ducks.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thanks Yarnie. I missed y'all too. Temps have dropped a little. There was a fire down south that trapped a deer hunter. He was surrounded by fire. The 911 operator talked him out of the fire. The fire was all around him. He was about to give up but she lead him out of the fire. He went to church for the first time Sunday and gave his life to Jesus. It was all on the local news. Very touching to hear him tell of his near death experience. PTL Enjoy your breakfast Yarnie. I have already been to the dentist with Dh. Now for my coffee.


Enjoy your coffee CB and hope you have a good day. Good news about the hunter, saved physically and spirtually


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

WendyBee said:


> re: waffles.
> I was thinking about this last night. The next time I buy pancake syrup, I`ll also buy some oranges and lemons. I`ll finely chop the fruit peal, and add them to the syrup bottle when its 1/3 of the way used. I bet over time, the syrup will be wonderful. I`ll buy 2 bottles....1 for the orange syrup, and another for the lemon.


great idea


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am not your sweetheart. Nothing you say worry's me. Just doesn't make a bit of sense.


Of course not, Muriel!

:-D


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course not, Muriel!
> 
> :-D


 :XD:


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

The amount of cooking expertise on this site would rival anything on the Food Network.
Thanks for the tips on home made maple syrup everyone.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course not, Muriel!
> 
> :-D


http://www.bobbleheads.com/ :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am not your sweetheart. Nothing you say worry's me. Just doesn't make a bit of sense. Why are you back on a Christian conservative site anyway? :shock: :roll:


Because she and her buds are obsessed with us; the best and brightest!  Remember, we light up their lives in _so_ many ways.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

[


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Enjoy your coffee CB and hope you have a good day. Good news about the hunter, saved physically and spirtually


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Because she and her buds are obsessed with us; the best and brightest!  Remember, we light up their lives in _so_ many ways.


You start the song I will sing along with you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You start the song I will sing along with you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Four legs good, two legs bad!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You start the song I will sing along with you. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I do not sing well. But I can sure light up a room with sparks, with laughter, my imagination, my intelligence and with the help of my God!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not sing well. But I can sure light up a room with sparks, with laughter, my imagination, my intelligence and with the help of my God!


Don't forget the bowling ball. Yahaaaaa


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Don't forget the bowling ball. Yahaaaaa


 :-D That's just a prop - I can light up any room, any time, any place.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

I deleted the photo on my phone of the bowling ball once I bought it. I've asked my BF to send me a pic of it since she now has it in her condo so I can show it to you all. I don't know if she'll keep it but I might for the memories!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :-D That's just a prop - I can light up any room, any time, any place.


I know you can.     :lol:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I know you can.     :lol:


And you'll sing at all my presentations for me?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not sing well. But I can sure light up a room with sparks, with laughter, my imagination, my intelligence and with the help of my God!


Friend of fatherless!
Fountain of happiness!
Lord of the swill-bucket! Oh, how my soul is on
Fire when I gaze at thy
Calm and commanding eye,
Like the sun in the sky,
Comrade Napoleon!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And you'll sing at all my presentations for me?


I can't sing either. Only joyful noise.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I can't sing either. Only joyful noise.


 :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca10BuVvWxQ


susanmos2000 said:


> Friend of fatherless!
> Fountain of happiness!
> Lord of the swill-bucket! Oh, how my soul is on
> Fire when I gaze at thy
> ...


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.bobbleheads.com/ :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


>


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Don't forget the bowling ball. Yahaaaaa


and your coat hanger! I better not bring a mirror tho


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You'll just have to wait for next year's Mrs America contest.



Knit crazy said:


> You were lucky. I, on the other hand, seem to be able to trip and fall for no other excuse that I didn't see an obstacle in front of me. I did that in June and still have a scar on my left shin. I am hoping a little sunning will even it out. I know it will go away before long, but I hate looking at that reminder of my clumsiness.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

First time I've agreed with you. Only lambs and goats. Glad I am a lamb and I have a Shepherd to lead me. Where is you leader leading you?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Huck will never admit her errors no matter how obvious. THE MIND is an ORGAN right Huck???



joeysomma said:


> Just shows how much you know about math. *Every algebraic equation is a sentence.*


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> First time I've agreed with you. Only lambs and goats. Glad I am a lamb and I have a Shepard to lead me. Where is you leader leading you?


@ Susan2000


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> and your coat hanger! I better not bring a mirror tho


If you bring a mirror we can watch ourselves light up. hehehheh.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Don't forget the bowling ball. Yahaaaaa


And the beer signs.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> [


susanmos2000
Lovely. Thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And the beer signs.


I missed the beer signs. What happened with that?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You forgot to mention that O-me gave the order to 'stand down.' Which is the *first * time in American history that servicemen did not go in to help or retrieve their fellow serviceman. In fact, two of the heroes defied O-me's order, Commander Han and a seal, and one lost his commission and the other his life. I believe Petreus also gave up his job as he refused to go along with O'me and Hill's lie and succumb to their blackmail of him.
> 
> O-me and Hill will be held responsible for their Kabuki Dance.


knitpresentgifts
Blackmail? Really? What are you smoking? Petreus resigned because he chose to fool around with a Mistress while being married to a very nice Lady. Now we see what you support - affairs. VERY interesting.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> First time I've agreed with you. Only lambs and goats. Glad I am a lamb and I have a Shepherd to lead me.


Sure about that, Muriel?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi KC This is what I was referring to. Thanks. RU



Knit crazy said:


> Just got this from a friend and it is intriguing:
> 
> This is cool! Can't imagine counting grains of wheat.
> How Great is our God!!! Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we THINK about it ??? God's accuracy may be observed in the hatching of eggs.. . . . .For example: the eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days; those of the canary in 14 days; -those of the barnyard hen in 21 days; The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days; those of the mallard in 35 days; the eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days. (Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Why not listen to someone who experienced government run amok during the Bolshevik revolution. Rand escaped that totalitarianism and the oppression of Russia. She built a new life in America, that beautiful, free country that didn't oppress people systemically. She witnessed during her youth the rise of Hitler, who did take guns from the populace and then incarcerated and killed them. She watched foolish Americans during the McCarthy years crave the type of government she escaped? If you had experienced what she did, you'd have the credits to criticize her. You don't. You are a neophyte compared to Rand in the evil that uncontrolled government brings every time.
> 
> If you want the Stone Age, move to the Middle East, which still oppresses the weak and helpless. Try it, if you like that type of government control. You won't need to lobby for it. It is in existence there. Thanks to America's founders, it isn't here despite O-me's foolish desire to put it in place.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately this is all wasted on Huckleberry and her friends. They don't appreciate the true uniqueness of America and want us to become what everyone else is. If they dislike America so much, then why live here. There are so many other countries that offer what they claim to want.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks KC for your critique. The liberal press helped put o-me in so of course their horse in the race influences their reporting.

Our country is greatly in need of reliable, objective, journalistic professionalism.



Knit crazy said:


> The problem is you get your news from leftist media sources that skew it toward their agenda. Some on the right do it too.
> 
> The national print media is leftist, but they regularly choose not to post important topics. They didn't fulfill their traditional role in helping to get Obama and are covering until recently his lack of preparation to be president and his failures in that role.
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Friend of fatherless!
> Fountain of happiness!
> Lord of the swill-bucket! Oh, how my soul is on
> Fire when I gaze at thy
> ...


susanmos2000
this is fabulous. Thank you. Fits KPG so splendidly.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Unfortunately this is all wasted on Huckleberry and her friends. They don't appreciate the true uniqueness of America and want us to become what everyone else is. If they dislike America so much, then why live here. There are so many other countries that offer what they claim to want.


soloweygirl
we love our Country which you and your co-horts are trying hard to destroy.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Sounds like a wonderful visit and lots of fun with the grands too. I bet 6 yo will remember you being there for his touchdown. My dad has gone to almost all my nephew's soccer games for the last 14 years and nephew still looks for "Opa" in the stands.
> 
> Too bad about the juvenile games played by some of the libs but at least it was easy to pass them by. It's more disappointing that they feel it's ok to disrupt other topics with their nasty comments. There were some nice, friendly posts on Yarnie's Garden thread until they got started there.


I always chuckle when they blame us for whatever they do. That must be the liberal mantra. Blaming certain population members for what they do.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The trick to good waffles is to use club soda or Seven Up. Makes the waffles so light and fluffy. I just use a Bisquick or any mix but use the Seven Up in place of the milk. You will love them. Also if your waffle iron has flat panels you can make good hot sandwiches. Or you can make cornbread waffles for supper using a box of corn muffin mix. Don't forget to use Pam and let the grill heat up.


Thanks for the suggestions CB. I will try the 7 UP and will certainly do the cornbread waffles. I love cornbread.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> and your coat hanger! I better not bring a mirror tho


We'll call our tour "The Trinity of Light!"


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> Blackmail? Really? What are you smoking? Petreus resigned because he chose to fool around with a Mistress while being married to a very nice Lady. Now we see what you support - affairs. VERY interesting.


He was on the way out before the affair. Don't you read the news?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That really hurt my feelings, KPG. But thanks for the offer although in your own words, we don't need permission to post in any thread. You have described your very own behavior above. If a 'Lib" starts a topic, you are there with your little minions.
> Actually we took a vacation together this summer and have formed even stronger friendships by doing so.
> Sorry to prove you wrong once again!


Just as we don't need your permission to post in any thread. This whole blame game is certainly getting old. Don't discount if a conservative starts a thread, you and yours are there right away with the rest of the trained rats.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thanks for the suggestions CB. I will try the 7 UP and will certainly do the cornbread waffles. I love cornbread.


So glad to know this!


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Do not ever say that the desire to do good by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.

Ayn Rand


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I always chuckle when they blame us for whatever they do. That must be the liberal mantra. Blaming certain population members for what they do.


I always chuckle because they cannot stay away from us. We rarely post in 'their' threads, yet, the constantly follow us around, read every post we write, try to respond, post nonsense in 'our' threads and know very little about most things.

The only thing they do well is follow.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> Blackmail? Really? What are you smoking? Petreus resigned because he chose to fool around with a Mistress while being married to a very nice Lady. Now we see what you support - affairs. VERY interesting.


Again, you show your ignorance.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, KPG, it was Obama, Joe Biden, and Hilary Clinton all dressed in robes disguised as Libyan terrorists who killed the 4 people in Benghazi. There you have it.
> For God's sake woman/man! The terrorists killed them!
> What more do you need to know? As sad as it is, that is pure fact.


No one was disputing that the terrorists killed the 4 in Benghazi. We need to know what happened on our side. Who gave certain orders, why nothing was done during the attack, why are the survivors not allowed to testify, why was the FBI delayed access to the consulate, why has no one been arrested, why was a video blamed? etc., etc. Why did Obama, Biden and Clinton all lie to the families of the 4. This lie was done ever so publicly when the bodies were brought back to the US. That's what needs to be known.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just as we don't need your permission to post in any thread. This whole blame game is certainly getting old. Don't discount if a conservative starts a thread, you and yours are there right away with the rest of the trained rats.


I love the story about the faux vacation. No one spoke of the time they had, no proof of the vacation was posted, no pictures (Huck have you found your camera memory card yet ? :-D), no stories, no memories, nothing. Sounds like a wonderful time was had by all!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Inside joke, sweetheart. Don't worry yourself.


Then why post it here? Unless you are calling the rest of the trained rats over to view your handiwork.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> Blackmail? Really? What are you smoking? Petreus resigned because he chose to fool around with a Mistress while being married to a very nice Lady. Now we see what you support - affairs. VERY interesting.


You really think that was the reason he resigned? Poor pathetic Huckleberry, will believe anything the administration says. You can sit in the corner with damemary as she also trusts Obama.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> He was on the way out before the affair. Don't you read the news?


Isn't it plainly obvious that she does NOT. Her idea of news is the day's talking points.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I always chuckle because they cannot stay away from us. We rarely post in 'their' threads, yet, the constantly follow us around, read every post we write, try to respond, post nonsense in 'our' threads and know very little about most things.
> 
> The only thing they do well is follow.


They certainly had a lot of practice following the Pied Piper around during the elections. Wasn't Willard the one that trained rats? The current "Willard" has done quite the job training the current batch. They accept without question and follow along no matter what.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't it plainly obvious that she does NOT. Her idea of news is the day's talking points.


_Head of AFRICOM Fired for Wanting to Assist Personnel in Benghazi_

By GerardDirect Staff - October 28, 2012

*General Carter Ham relieved of duty as Commander of AFRICOM*
Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta announced on Sunday that General Carter Ham Commander of GOC Africa Command (Africom), headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany. (U.S. Africa Command is one of six unified geographic commands within the Department of Defense unified command structure.) *for refusing to obey orders *  not to assist  the US personnel in Benghazi on the night of September 11. Army General David Rodriguez has been appointed by President Obama to become replace him.

Gen. Ham refused to take responsibility for the decision not to provide essential air coverage and other support for the beleaguered personnel at the Consulate. After the information was leaked last week that three urgent requests for support were denied to the Americans trapped in the Consulate and the Annex, President Barack Obama said on Sunday, The minute I found out what was going on, I gave three very clear directives  Number 1, make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to. According to the highly decorated, four-star General, Carter Ham, the President is lying. 

The Ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens, another official, and two CIA assets and former NAVY SEALS disregarded repeated orders to stand down, and rescued several people from the burning Consulate under heavy fire. They requested assistance at least three times and were summarily denied each time. They had AQ mortars painted with laser pointers and requested a C130 attack on the target or a missile strike with a F-22 or F-35. They had laid the groundwork for a military response that would create minimum collateral damage. In return for their heroism, their urgent requests were denied and they died defending America.

According to our sources, General Ham received copies of the e-mails that had been sent to the White House from Benghazi, requesting military support at the Consulate and the Annex after the attacks began. General Ham had a rapid response unit ready to deploy and communicated that to the Pentagon. He then received the order to stand down. His response to the Pentagon was essentially that he could not do that. Within a few minutes after sending that response, his second in command told General Ham that he was relieved of his command, effectively immediately.

On Saturday, October 27, Panetta confirmed that General Ham had been relieved of his assignment.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> No one was disputing that the terrorists killed the 4 in Benghazi. We need to know what happened on our side. Who gave certain orders, why nothing was done during the attack, why are the survivors not allowed to testify, why was the FBI delayed access to the consulate, why has no one been arrested, why was a video blamed? etc., etc. Why did Obama, Biden and Clinton all lie to the families of the 4. This lie was done ever so publicly when the bodies were brought back to the US. That's what needs to be known.


May I add a couple Solo? What about the missing Ground To Air Missiles, what about the missing Chemical Weapons. The plot only gets thicker.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You forgot to mention that O-me gave the order to 'stand down.' Which is the *first * time in American history that servicemen did not go in to help or retrieve their fellow serviceman. In fact, two of the heroes defied O-me's order, Commander Han and a seal, and one lost his commission and the other his life. I believe Petreus also gave up his job as he refused to go along with O'me and Hill's lie and succumb to their blackmail of him.
> 
> O-me and Hill will be held responsible for their Kabuki Dance.


We can only hope it happens. It seem this Admin has manage to to get away with everything that has been done.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> A government is the most dangerous threat to mans rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Why not listen to someone who experienced government run amok during the Bolshevik revolution. Rand escaped that totalitarianism and the oppression of Russia. She built a new life in America, that beautiful, free country that didn't oppress people systemically. She witnessed during her youth the rise of Hitler, who did take guns from the populace and then incarcerated and killed them. She watched foolish Americans during the McCarthy years crave the type of government she escaped? If you had experienced what she did, you'd have the credits to criticize her. You don't. You are a neophyte compared to Rand in the evil that uncontrolled government brings every time.
> 
> If you want the Stone Age, move to the Middle East, which still oppresses the weak and helpless. Try it, if you like that type of government control. You won't need to lobby for it. It is in existence there. Thanks to America's founders, it isn't here despite O-me's foolish desire to put it in place.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savages whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> The amount of cooking expertise on this site would rival anything on the Food Network.
> Thanks for the tips on home made maple syrup everyone.


and it always makes me hungry. Chicken noodle soup on to late to put in crock pot, but its on the stove smells so good. Not the site to be on a diet that is for sure. :shock:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Swan's always here in the spring heading north. Have not seen them in the fall. Egrats have come and gone. Hubby said flock of candian geese came through this morning. I always wonder how they can fly at night. but love hearing them and honking to each other as they pass by.

Thanks for the ideas of syrup recipes. I always go up north to farms that make their own syrup in the spring.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.bobbleheads.com/ :thumbup:


am still laughing at that one. Explains everything. :lol:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Don't forget the bowling ball. Yahaaaaa


Oh can I join too. I sing load and off key quite well. I also play the Kettle drum. I just turn the kettle on the stove upside down and use a nice heavy spoon. Makes a wonderful sound to go with singing and fire works.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No one was disputing that the terrorists killed the 4 in Benghazi. We need to know what happened on our side. Who gave certain orders, why nothing was done during the attack, why are the survivors not allowed to testify, why was the FBI delayed access to the consulate, why has no one been arrested, why was a video blamed? etc., etc. Why did Obama, Biden and Clinton all lie to the families of the 4. This lie was done ever so publicly when the bodies were brought back to the US. That's what needs to be known.


Their families more so. I can not imagine what those paraents are going through. KGP posted the committee on here. The man I can not remember his name on committee was holding back his tear and his voice so much emotions. I hope she will post it again. I remember he was from South Carolina


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We'll call our tour "The Trinity of Light!"


Love it. Here is our songhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFLRMWlCOow


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> am still laughing at that one. Explains everything. :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why post it here? Unless you are calling the rest of the trained rats over to view your handiwork.


 :roll: :shock:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :roll: :shock:


Because rats get lost in the maze and can not find their way out.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh CB yes they bury their heads in the sand don't they.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh can I join too. I sing load and off key quite well. I also play the Kettle drum. I just turn the kettle on the stove upside down and use a nice heavy spoon. Makes a wonderful sound to go with singing and fire works.


Of course you can join in. I just got back from the Ozark Mountains. I can blow in an old whiskey jug. But I will have to borrow one I don't drink. You know I am a fundimentalist holy roller that is bare foot in Arkansas. :XD: Maybe even borrow some overalls and a straw hat with hay between my one tooth. :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol: Come on down ya hear!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Goats have to climb a mountain before they can see the truth. Lambs know where to go following the shepard is life. Following the moutains to the top is a long ways down.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We missed you but what a great time you had. Nothing compares with time spent with family. I think i would have enjoyed that Mennonite dinner.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I just got back about an hour ago. Tried to go online to talk but my 6yo wanted my attention. He made a touch down in his football game Saturday morn. The movie star grandson had his birthday pie last night too. Daughter and sil treated us to supper at the local steak house. She also cooked ribs for us last night. On Friday we went to a local Mennonite diner . The ladies had built a nice place. Yes I said they built it out of an old barn from up North somewhere. Pine floors , oak furniture. Ate off enamelware plates. They had homemade pies and all kind of yummy sandwiches. Of course the service and food was great. After that we went into Bentonville where we went to the orginial Sam Walton's store. We saw his truck and his museum. WE then ate at his soda fountain. Got a cute pic of my youngest gs sitting in a kids booth reading a book with chocolate all over his sweet little face. He has tons of curls and is a doll. It had turned cooler so it was so nice. Got to see a lot of flowers on the town squares. So we had a nice visit. Thanks for asking WCK . Sad to come home to all the trouble makers still trying to get attention. I am just passing over them. A lot of pages to read being gone since Thursday. Missed everyone of my friends.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> We missed you but what a great time you had. Nothing compares with time spent with family. I think i would have enjoyed that Mennonite dinner.


It was so yummy. It is usually crowded but we just got in at the right time. The wooden beams were so homey with the wood floors. Someone had carved a large wooden spoon and it was hanging on one wall. That was the name of the place. The Wooden Spoon. My dd got my gs a coconut pie for his birthday. The crust melted in your mouth. All sandwiches were made out of homemade bread.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Just another example of low knowledge voter. I tell you we need to have a prerequisite exam before giving out ballots. I would even take a qualifying score of 60% for voting.



joeysomma said:


> We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I always chuckle because they cannot stay away from us. We rarely post in 'their' threads, yet, the constantly follow us around, read every post we write, try to respond, post nonsense in 'our' threads and know very little about most things.
> 
> The only thing they do well is follow.


Stalking behavior.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

galinipper said:


> May I add a couple Solo? What about the missing Ground To Air Missiles, what about the missing Chemical Weapons. The plot only gets thicker.


Add away galinipper. The plot will continue to get thicker as more information becomes available. We know now that it doesn't matter who the terrorists are, even if they are Al Qaeda, we will still supply them with weapons to use against Assad. The Administration just hopes they will not use our weapons against us. How logical is this: we are at war with terrorists yet we are supplying terrorists with weapons, all the while hoping our country does not find out. Well, the country has found out...


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> and it always makes me hungry. Chicken noodle soup on to late to put in crock pot, but its on the stove smells so good. Not the site to be on a diet that is for sure. :shock:


I made some wonderful split pea and ham soup on the stove top over the weekend. It was so chilly this morning I had a bowl of soup around 11am. I had just came back inside from hanging out laundry on the washing line, and I needed something warm and filling. It really did the trick!

:thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Just another example of low knowledge voter. I tell you we need to have a prerequisite exam before giving out ballots. I would even take a qualifying score of 60% for voting.


you are so right . I stood in line to vote and three ladies in front of me where talking. I couldn't beleive what I heard from one of them. She ask which one are we voting for I forgot. I was dumb founded.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I am not optimistic. Our Congress did not get the information they were requesting and then got it from Al Jazeera. And to think we were promised a more transparent government.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I know. To think the premier leader of our Nation and the VP and Sec of State all lied to the family members about the deaths of their children who were murdered by their very actions. It makes my stomach turn. I certainly hope accountability will be forthcoming.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

WendyBee said:


> I made some wonderful split pea and ham soup on the stove top over the weekend. It was so chilly this morning I had a bowl of soup around 11am. I had just came back inside from hanging out laundry on the washing line, and I needed something warm and filling. It really did the trick!
> 
> :thumbup:


Oh I so love split pea and ham soup. Hubby and son hate it. But DIL like me loves it. So son makes it for both of us and they eat something else. It always taste better the second day doesn't it.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

CB Thanks for waffle tip. We love waffles and will try the Bisquick with club soda which has no sugar.



Country Bumpkins said:


> The trick to good waffles is to use club soda or Seven Up. Makes the waffles so light and fluffy. I just use a Bisquick or any mix but use the Seven Up in place of the milk. You will love them. Also if your waffle iron has flat panels you can make good hot sandwiches. Or you can make cornbread waffles for supper using a box of corn muffin mix. Don't forget to use Pam and let the grill heat up.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Do any of you get Guideposts magazine. They havae a web site where you can down load a sweater pattern and you can make if for children in other countrys. It's a nice thing to do. Know there are children here who need help. But there are other country's that have poor to. Just thought I would mention it.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks KC for the briefing in brief. Unfortunately very few Americans know these FACTS. And many wouldn't know how to process them if they knew them. And they as low information voters voted.



Knit crazy said:


> Obama and Hillary were responsible for lax security at that station despite being made aware of the shortcomings. Biden is just stupid enough to not know what was happening. I doubt O-me briefs him on anything.
> 
> Then, when terrorists attacked, O-me and Hillary refused to send help that was available because acknowledging that Al-Quaeda was on the rise didn't fit O-me's political fantasy he was selling during the election. Then, craven cowards that they are, O-me and Hillary couldn't watch what was occurring there even though it was streaming into the WH on live feed.
> 
> Both O-me and Hillary missed that 3 am call. Then, they created the obvious lie to sell to the American public. They think you and the rest of America are stupid. If you believed them, you are.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

WHEN???



knitpresentgifts said:


> O-me and Hill will be held responsible for their Kabuki Dance.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> They cook lemons that way before straining the fruit and adding vodka or another clear alcohol to make lemoncello. Make sure you don't add much of the sugar water to the syrup or it will thin it.


Sounds like a plan.....homemade lemoncello and not so painful to the purse. Will play around with that idea. Have made other liquers that way using vodka.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

We have a gaggle of Canadian Geese in our yard and I wish they'd get on their way south. It's been 3 days now. They are so very dirty!!

I love when they fly over our home on the express without making a pit stop. Best to see them in the sky.



Country Bumpkins said:


> That sounds so nice. Never knew that swans migrate. We have Candian geese in our pond and a few ducks.


----------



## WendyBee (Nov 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Do any of you get Guideposts magazine. They havae a web site where you can down load a sweater pattern and you can make if for children in other countrys. It's a nice thing to do. Know there are children here who need help. But there are other country's that have poor to. Just thought I would mention it.


My Mother in law always subscribed to Guideposts. I love that magazine, so after Christmas I`m going to order a subscription for myself.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> No one was disputing that the terrorists killed the 4 in Benghazi. We need to know what happened on our side. Who gave certain orders, why nothing was done during the attack, why are the survivors not allowed to testify, why was the FBI delayed access to the consulate, why has no one been arrested, why was a video blamed? etc., etc. Why did Obama, Biden and Clinton all lie to the families of the 4. This lie was done ever so publicly when the bodies were brought back to the US. That's what needs to be known.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Fantasy is the name of their game in all areas and venues of life.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I love the story about the faux vacation. No one spoke of the time they had, no proof of the vacation was posted, no pictures (Huck have you found your camera memory card yet ? :-D), no stories, no memories, nothing. Sounds like a wonderful time was had by all!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Because rats get lost in the maze and can not find their way out.


 :lol: :lol:  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:  :lol: :lol:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

One of my favorite soups. Good use for left over ham or I get a smoked ham hock at the Amish Market.



WendyBee said:


> I made some wonderful split pea and ham soup on the stove top over the weekend. It was so chilly this morning I had a bowl of soup around 11am. I had just came back inside from hanging out laundry on the washing line, and I needed something warm and filling. It really did the trick!
> 
> :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Do you have the web site?



theyarnlady said:


> Do any of you get Guideposts magazine. They havae a web site where you can down load a sweater pattern and you can make if for children in other countrys. It's a nice thing to do. Know there are children here who need help. But there are other country's that have poor to. Just thought I would mention it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Fantasy is the name of their game in all areas and venues of life.


RUKnitting
In fact I have found it. Nosy aren't you! We had a swell time together. You should try it sometime.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Do you have the web site?


RUKnitting
I am finishing two Sweaters to donate for needy Children here. I sent abroad as well. Very enjoyable.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

AYN RAND addressing

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld:'
"In politics the initiation of force is immoral".


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I found this on facebook. I think it fits here.


joeysomma
just think how often this applies to your friends. Want me repost what was said about any of us? Not a pleasant thought is it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> I am finishing two Sweaters to donate for needy Children here. I sent abroad as well. Very enjoyable.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> just think how often this applies to your friends. Want me repost what was said about any of us? Not a pleasant thought is it.


No, I'm sure they wouldn't like it--still, more fertilizer for their garden.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, I'm sure they wouldn't like it--still, more fertilizer for their garden.


susanmos2000
getting smelly isn't it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Yes, it is--sure detracts from those lovely blossoms.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Bullies generally only associate with other bullies or those that are weak minded and therefore easily manipulated. I _wouldn't be nor am I_ one of those types.


Really, Thumper? Should we post the filthy and vulgar PM you sent last night??? What a phony you are.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really, Thumper? Should we post the filthy and vulgar PM you sent last night??? What a phony you are.


Why not post it? (with the naughty words bleeped out, of course)


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Who is lost here? I don't think it is me. :{


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh my , how she lies and lies and lies. Check out LOLL and POV and see how often she posts. She is a pathological liar.
And I've Got a Secret. I believe the opposite is true.
************************************************
knitpresentgifts wrote:
I always chuckle because they cannot stay away from us. We rarely post in 'their' threads, yet, the constantly follow us around, read every post we write, try to respond, post nonsense in 'our' threads and know very little about most things.

The only thing they do well is follow.[end Quote}


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I found this on facebook. I think it fits here.


Joey, I saw your picture and words posted. So why do you do it then?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my , how she lies and lies and lies. Check out LOLL and POV and see how often she posts. She is a pathological liar.


Yes--and I'm sure her personal God is keeping track.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my , how she lies and lies and lies. Check out LOLL and POV and see how often she posts. She is a pathological liar.
> And I've Got a Secret. I believe the opposite is true.
> ************************************************
> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> ...


Bratty Patty
well you have to understand that the more she lies the more often she has to talk to God. She likes these one-way conversations since he does not talk back to her and she can make herself believe that he is agreement with her. Sure!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> well you have to understand that the more she lies the more often she has to talk to God. She likes these one-way conversations since he does not talk back to her and she can make herself believe that he is agreement with her. Sure!


Hmmm...I believe she consults her Higher Power via Ouija board.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

My mother had a subscription too. Your post brings back memories.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> AYN RAND addressing
> 
> Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld:'
> "In politics the initiation of force is immoral".


She died in 1982. They weren't involved in Iraq then. Do you think she had knowledge if the future? I guess she knew O-me would threaten Syria too? She really was a smart lady.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Government help to business is just as disastrous as government persecution the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.

Ayn Rand


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Government help to business is just as disastrous as government persecution the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.
> 
> Ayn Rand


The purpose of the Federal Government is not to 'help'. They are to print the currency, negotiate with foreign countries, raise an army, oversee interstate commerce.....the purpose of the Federal Government is not to be a nanny


----------



## Smallfries (Sep 22, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Just another example of low knowledge voter. I tell you we need to have a prerequisite exam before giving out ballots. I would even take a qualifying score of 60% for voting.


Luckily, the Supreme Court voted idiots like you down. Deal with it.


----------



## Smallfries (Sep 22, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> She died in 1982. They weren't involved in Iraq then. Do you think she had knowledge if the future? I guess she knew O-me would threaten Syria too? She really was a smart lady.


Blithering idiot, aren't you?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

How is everyone doing seems quite here. Thought I would pop in to see what is going on.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Of course you can join in. I just got back from the Ozark Mountains. I can blow in an old whiskey jug. But I will have to borrow one I don't drink. You know I am a fundimentalist holy roller that is bare foot in Arkansas. :XD: Maybe even borrow some overalls and a straw hat with hay between my one tooth. :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol: Come on down ya hear!


Read for our jamboree


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Read for our jamboree


LOLLLLLLLOOLLLLLL. Girl you are too much fun!!!!!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Do any of you get Guideposts magazine. They havae a web site where you can down load a sweater pattern and you can make if for children in other countrys. It's a nice thing to do. Know there are children here who need help. But there are other country's that have poor to. Just thought I would mention it.


Thanks for the mention Yarnie. I know a few people that knit for people in developing countries too

Didn`t find the sweater pattern yet, but will look further. Up until a couple of years ago there were a few of us that knit for children in Mongolia. I didn`t know that it was one of the coldest countries in the world and many homes and schools didn`t have central heating I`m sure there are many other people who would appreciate warm clothing


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> We have a gaggle of Canadian Geese in our yard and I wish they'd get on their way south. It's been 3 days now. They are so very dirty!!
> 
> I love when they fly over our home on the express without making a pit stop. Best to see them in the sky.


They are very messy!! but on the plus side, they eat a lot of slugs


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I found this on facebook. I think it fits here.


 :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Read for our jamboree


Oh fits and giggles here. You are good lady.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Guideposts sent me to World Vision and this sweater. Is it the one you want?
> 
> http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/pages/knit-for-kids-classic-knit-pattern


thanks Joey was going to look for it . You save me the trouble. as it would have probably taken me 3 hours just to find it.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LOLLLLLLLOOLLLLLL. Girl you are too much fun!!!!!


girls just wanna have fun - I can clank the pot lids together


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> She died in 1982. They weren't involved in Iraq then. Do you think she had knowledge if the future? I guess she knew O-me would threaten Syria too? She really was a smart lady.


Knit crazy
try again, dear. Are you that dumb or just pretending?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just as we don't need your permission to post in any thread. This whole blame game is certainly getting old. Don't discount if a conservative starts a thread, you and yours are there right away with the rest of the trained rats.


You being the head rat, right solowey?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not sing well. But I can sure light up a room with sparks, with laughter, my imagination, my intelligence and with the help of my God!


More like noxious gas.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not sing well. But I can sure light up a room with sparks, with laughter, my imagination, my intelligence and with the help of my God!


More like noxious gas.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Smallfries said:


> Blithering idiot, aren't you?


Smallfries
have you ever met anyone that stupid? Unbelievable.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> girls just wanna have fun - I can clank the pot lids together


Yes we do. You remember our song. How sweet!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Guideposts sent me to World Vision and this sweater. Is it the one you want?
> 
> http://www.worldvision.org/content.nsf/pages/knit-for-kids-classic-knit-pattern


Thanks Joey, a nice simple pattern that works well for boys or girls


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

How was your breakfast date Yarnie, hope you had something yummy


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> How was your breakfast date Yarnie, hope you had something yummy


he decide on lunch instead and tonight we had our chicken soup. Tommorrow morning we have to take wild willie in for his check up and hubby wants to go to breakfast then. Just what I want a cat going crazy in his cage and a husband who wants to eat. I want to just stay in bed. Don't need all that excitement .


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Thanks Joey, a nice simple pattern that works well for boys or girls


Isn't it, and think of all the children who will be warm.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> he decide on lunch instead and tonight we had our chicken soup. Tommorrow morning we have to take wild willie in for his check up and hubby wants to go to breakfast then. Just what I want a cat going crazy in his cage and a husband who wants to eat. I want to just stay in bed. Don't need all that excitement .


If Willie is anything like our cats, he would not appreciate waiting while you ate breakfast!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> If Willie is anything like our cats, he would not appreciate waiting while you ate breakfast!


that is Willie he is a norweign cat which explains it all. He talks all the time, and I mean talks. He does not like the being inclosed. But the funny thing is when he gets to the vet he lays down on the scale and purrs away. Vet has to wave something in front of his nose to get him to stop purring so she can listen to his heart. He is a funny one.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> that is Willie he is a norweign cat which explains it all. He talks all the time, and I mean talks. He does not like the being inclosed. But the funny thing is when he gets to the vet he lays down on the scale and purrs away. Vet has to wave something in front of his nose to get him to stop purring so she can listen to his heart. He is a funny one.


 Lol Sorry left off the link

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7qbN/cats-pride-fresh-and-light-cat-massage


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lol Sorry left off the link
> 
> http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7qbN/cats-pride-fresh-and-light-cat-massage


That was hilarious, thanks CB


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That was hilarious, thanks CB


Oh I hate this computer it won't come up.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I got it on kp. Go to topic and look for cat massage. lol You have to it is so funny.


theyarnlady said:


> Oh I hate this computer it won't come up.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I got it on kp. Go to topic and look for cat massage. lol You have to it is so funny.


OK will do.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Good night ladies, need to get up early to be bright and bushy tailed for vet trip and breakfast.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

This is especially for SmallFries and Huckleberry. Rand knew the type.

The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose.

Ayn Rand


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't understand. What if the man's purpose is an evil one?



Knit crazy said:


> This is especially for SmallFries and Huckleberry. Rand knew the type.
> 
> The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose.
> 
> Ayn Rand


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Read for our jamboree


I can't wait. You are FUN!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Good morning ladies on the left. I'm home but have an ear ache so off to Dr. at 2:15 as it seems there is always something wrong. Got flu shot--no sore arm this time.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I can't wait. You are FUN!


Me too as I can play a washboard! We really are a musical bunch!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Good morning ladies on the left. I'm home but have an ear ache so off to Dr. at 2:15 as it seems there is always something wrong. Got flu shot--no sore arm this time.


Janeway,
Take care of your ear. I have problems because I was not quick enough. It will never go away for me (hearing loss, ringing, vertigo).


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Me too as I can play a washboard! We really are a musical bunch!


I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. But if you need someone to sing off key, I'm your gal!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> Take care of your ear. I have problems because I was not quick enough. It will never go away for me (hearing loss, ringing, vertigo).


I'm sorry LL. The ringing and vertigo can drive one to drink.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm sorry LL. The ringing and vertigo can drive one to drink.


Yup.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> Take care of your ear. I have problems because I was not quick enough. It will never go away for me (hearing loss, ringing, vertigo).


So sorry dear, hugs.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

For my friends:

God Whispers


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

An inspiring story. We have nasty trolls here who are crazy, worthless excuses for humanity. Then there is Ed Freeman, who was actually a pilot. Enjoy this story as I did.

You're a 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded and dying in the jungle somewhere in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam. It's November 11, 1967 LZ (landing zone) X-ray. Your unit is outnumbered 8-1 and the enemy fire is so intense from 100 yards away, that your CO (commanding officer) has ordered the MedEvac helicopters to stop coming in. 

You're lying there, listening to the enemy machine guns and you know you're not getting out. Your family is half way around the world, 12,000 miles away, and you'll never see them again. 

As the world starts to fade in and out, you know this is the day. Then - over the machine gun noise - you faintly hear that sound of a helicopter. You look up to see a Huey coming in. But.. It doesn't seem real because no MedEvac markings are on it. 

Captain Ed Freeman is coming in for you. He's not MedEvac so it's not his job, but he heard the radio call and decided he's flying his Huey down into the machine gun fire anyway. Even after the MedEvacs were ordered not to come. He's coming anyway.

And he drops it in and sits there in the machine gun fire, as they load 3 of you at a time on board. Then he flies you up and out through the gunfire to the doctors and nurses and safety. And, he kept coming back!! 13 more times!! Until all the wounded were out. No one knew until the mission was over that the Captain had been hit 4 times in the legs and left arm. He took 29 of you and your buddies out that day. Some would not have made it without the Captain and his Huey.

Medal of Honor Recipient, Captain Ed Freeman, United States Air Force, died last Wednesday at the age of 70, in Boise , Idaho. May God Bless and Rest His Soul. 

I bet you didn't hear about this hero's passing, but we've sure seen a whole bunch about Lindsay Lohan, Tiger Woods and the bickering of congress over Health Reform. Medal of Honor Winner Captain Ed Freeman. Shame on the media !!! 

Now... YOU pass this along. 
Honor this real hero.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> So sorry dear, hugs.


Same to you, Janeway. Hugs.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janeway,
> Take care of your ear. I have problems because I was not quick enough. It will never go away for me (hearing loss, ringing, vertigo).


Oh Lucy am so sorry to hear of your ear problem I only have vertigo once and a while I can not image what you must be going through.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> An inspiring story. We have nasty trolls here who are crazy, worthless excuses for humanity. Then there is Ed Freeman, who was actually a pilot. Enjoy this story as I did.
> 
> You're a 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded and dying in the jungle somewhere in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam. It's November 11, 1967 LZ (landing zone) X-ray. Your unit is outnumbered 8-1 and the enemy fire is so intense from 100 yards away, that your CO (commanding officer) has ordered the MedEvac helicopters to stop coming in.
> 
> ...


Yes it sounds like the media they pass over everything that has to do with real heros .


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh Lucy am so sorry to hear of your ear problem I only have vertigo once and a while I can not image what you must be going through.


Yarnlady,
I had a very bad sinus and ear infection last winter. This is the result. Am seeing a specialist. Thank you!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Well Wild Willie made it through his exam. Laid on the scale talking the whole time. Vet had to wave stuff under his nose to stop his purring last a second did it again. She only heard his heart thump three times. But otherwise was a good kitty. 

but boy this moring he was talking loud and so much I told him to use his inside voice. He is now sleeping on his table in front of window. It wore him out. ( *O * )


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. But if you need someone to sing off key, I'm your gal!


good I will sing with you. I have the same problem. But we could hum, or whistle. Nay lets just sing and load too.

I did that in High school choir one year for fun. Loud and really off key then the whole Alto section went off key. It was really fun if I do say so myself. :XD: :XD: :XD: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

This is how the Tea Party says thank you to our men and women who served and are serving this country and to their families who wait for them back home.

VoteVets.org

Last week, House Republicans including John Boehner, Rand Paul, Eric Cantor passed a Farm Bill that would kick 170,000 veterans off food assistance. 
Faced with a looming, losing debt ceiling fight, Tea Party Republicans have turned to veterans and the poor as a sacrifice designed to appease their austerity-starved base. 
We've been fighting this battle for a few months, but the stakes are higher than ever this week. 
It's critical that your Senator opposes any legislation that cuts food assistance for veterans and military family members.

http://action.votevets.org/food-assistance

It gets worse...

A Department of Agriculture study last year found that over 5,000 active duty service members receive food assistance. And, in the same year of the study, over $100,000 in food aid was used on military bases. 
Hundreds of veterans have also told us they're currently receiving assistance. We're got to fight for them on this issue. 
Please stand up for them in that effort.

All the best,

Jon Soltz 
@JonSoltz 
Iraq War Veteran and Chairman 
VoteVets.org

The House approved legislation Thursday that would cut $39 billion in funds over the next decade for food stamp programs.
Members approved H.R. 3102, the Nutrition Reform and Work Opportunity Act, in a close 217-210 vote. No Democrats voted for the bill, and 15 Republicans voted against GOP leaders.
The bill would authorize food stamp programs for three years.
The legislation, part of which was developed by Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), passed in the face of fierce opposition from House Democrats, a White House veto threat and warnings that it is already dead on arrival in the Democratic Senate. 
Several Democrats warned today that cutting $39 billion from the program, formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), is a cruel step that would only hurt people in need.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that up to 3.8 million people would lose food stamp benefits next year.
The vote was expected to be close, as a few Republicans had said they were undecided on how to vote. Just a day earlier, House Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers (R-Ky.) said he was looking at it, and two others said they were similarly undecided. 
Rogers waited until the nearly last minute before voting for the measure.
Most of the Republican defections came from the Northeast, including most of the New York GOP delegation.

"I have a lot of families that are struggling. This is a tough economy, and I didn't think it was the right time to be going that deep," said Rep. Pat Meehan (R-Pa.) of his no vote.
Rep. Michael Grimm (R-N.Y.) cited victims of Hurricane Sandy in his district who needed food stamps.

"I just felt the cuts were a little too steep, especially because right now, I have a lot of Sandy victims who have never been on assistance ever in their life," Grimm said. "And a lot of these hard-working families have lost everything, and for the first time, they're needing food stamps. So I didnt want to affect those Sandy victims."
Other Republicans voting against the bill were Reps. Shelly Moore Capito (W.Va.), Mike Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Jeff Fortenberry (Neb.), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Richard Hanna (N.Y.), Walter Jones (N.C.), Pete King (N.Y.), Frank LoBiondo (N.J.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Chris Smith (N.J.), David Valadao (Calif.), Frank Wolf (Va.) and Don Young (Alaska).
Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), who frequently opposes leadership, waited until near the end before voting yes.

"That was a tough vote, yes," Amash said. "It's got some reforms that are important. I think these issues should be handled by the states, not by the federal government. But it's good to have a method for phasing these in while we transition over to the states."

Republicans stressed that the bill is needed to stop runaway spending in the food stamp program, which has roughly doubled under the Obama administration. They also said the bill is focused on reducing payments to able-bodied adults and focusing payments on more needy populations.
There's no denying that SNAP provides important support for many Americans who are struggling, said House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas (R-Okla.). It serves a noble purpose to help you when you hit bottom. But it's not meant to keep you at the bottom.
Democrats criticized the measure.
Cutting the investment is a full assault on the health and economic security of millions of families, said Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). I know one thing for sure: Every person who votes for this Republican measure is voting to hurt his or her own constituents.
The legislation contains many of the reforms Republicans pushed for earlier this year as part of a larger farm bill, such as limiting automatic eligibility for food stamps. But it also includes language developed by Cantor that would eliminate the option states have of seeking a waiver from rules that require able-bodied adults to work or participate in a job training program in order to receive extended SNAP benefits.
Democratic opponents of the bill have said Republican and Democratic governors have been asking for these waivers, making them something both parties have supported. Opponents also say killing the waiver would leave people with no options for food aid in states where jobs or job training programs don't exist.
But Cantor rejected those criticisms today. There's been a lot of demagoguery around this bill, and unfortunately a lot of misinformation, he said on the floor.
Because the truth is, anyone subjected to the work requirements under this bill who are  able-bodied, under 50, will not be denied benefits if only they are willing to sign up for the opportunity for work, he said. There is no requirement that jobs exist, there are workfare programs; there are options under the bill for community service.
Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said he hoped passage of the bill would allow the House and Senate to convene a conference committee to finish up a unified farm bill.
Earlier this year, GOP leaders proposed a broader farm bill that included $20 billion in cuts to the food stamp program. But many Republicans demanded deeper cuts in an effort to further trim the rapidly growing program, and the GOP was forced to pass a farm bill without language on food stamps.
But even if a conference committee were assembled, the big differences between the House and Senate bills could pose problems for bicameral effort. One question is how to find agreement between the two chambers on a total level of food stamp spending  the Senate-passed farm bill only makes a $4 billion cut to SNAP.
Another question is whether to synchronize the authorization for commodity and food stamp programs. For years, both have been authorized together under a single five-year farm bill.
The House has tried to separate the two items. Over the summer, it passed a five-year bill dealing with farm commodity programs, but the food stamp bill passed today authorizes SNAP for just three years.
House Republicans pushed for the split in order to more cleanly attack the rising costs of the food stamp program.
Senate Democrats are expected to push to unify the two elements in conference, while many House Republicans are expected to keep up pressure to put the two issues on different timelines.
Food stamps and farm policy should be considered individually and on their own merits, Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) said on the floor today. Stutzman lost his post as an assistant GOP whip after bucking other leaders in his push to split the bill, even though the House now appears to be following his proposal.
It's just common sense, and it's exactly why we are here, he said. 
 Russell Berman contributed

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/323511-house-votes-to-cut-39-billion-from-foo... 
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Remember West TX
Namaste


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really, Thumper? Should we post the filthy and vulgar PM you sent last night??? What a phony you are.


Go ahead and post it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You being the head rat, right solowey?


That would be your leader Cheeky.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> An inspiring story. We have nasty trolls here who are crazy, worthless excuses for humanity. Then there is Ed Freeman, who was actually a pilot. Enjoy this story as I did.
> 
> You're a 19 year old kid. You're critically wounded and dying in the jungle somewhere in the Central Highlands of Viet Nam. It's November 11, 1967 LZ (landing zone) X-ray. Your unit is outnumbered 8-1 and the enemy fire is so intense from 100 yards away, that your CO (commanding officer) has ordered the MedEvac helicopters to stop coming in.
> 
> ...


I have long ago stopped thinking the media is worthwhile. This hero should definitely be honored. Thank you for posting it.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky,

Your links don't work.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That would be your leader Cheeky.


No rats in the Liberal Left, solowey. That would be you and the guttersnipes you call friends who feed out of the dumpsters and beg for the free handouts you live on. All living large off of the government programs, everyone of you and you accuse others of using the system and it's exactly how you all live, off of us, the hard working taxpayers. You greedy little mean spirited ogres are so afraid someone might take your government assistance away or your medicaid that you scream and holler like the users and lazy slugs that you are. Don't worry dear, you will still be able to survive but you might have to share and that's one thing you righties aren't too good at doing. So like all of you, freeloaders to point the finger at someone else so nobody notices those government checks and food vouchers you get every month. As kind hearted Barbara Bush said to the Hurricane Katrina victims living in the football stadium in New Orleans;"My aren't we living large". Have a lovely day dear. You just won't ever learn will you or maybe your brain has reached maximum capacity and you are incapable of learning anything new. We don't care what you think. Cheeky tried to be kind but I learned that rats and other vermin bite and spread disease and I don't want to catch anything you and your rodent friends may be infected with. You go ahead and post to your little hearts content and we will only laugh or make fun and carry on. :-D


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> Your links don't work.


Neither do your cult beliefs or your brain crazy lady. :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sorry, You are just as I thought you were, solowey, no redeeming qualities at all. You just keep listening to the stuff your Tea Party folks believe and pretend that your Tea Party legislators didn't vote to take food out of the mouths of Veterans and their families. The day will come and you will see how wrong you all were and all the people you hurt.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Neither do your cult beliefs or your brain crazy lady. :thumbup:


*Here's some of Cheeky's recent posts: I'll point out these are all recent quotes of hers. I only had to go back about two weeks for these direct quotes from her:*

BTW:  Isn't this the D & P thread? Pretty obvious to me who the crazy lady is.



CheekyBlighter said:


> ~ If you are not a Liberal go and post somewhere else. *You have your own threads and you know where they are.
> Yarnlady has a lovely thread she started for you as well. *Show everyone on KP that you can behave as civilized adults and leave us alone.
> 
> ~ I will ignore any and all nasty posts made by the right or left directed at each other for the purpose of argument so Liberal ladies DO NOT DIGNIFY THEIR POSTS BY A RESPONSE TO THEM. IGNORE THEM. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT. IF YOU MUST REPLY TO THEM DO IT ON S&O NOT HERE. SATAN GET THEE BEHIND US AND OFF OF THIS THREAD ALONG WITH ALL YOUR LEGIONS OF DEMONS! ENOUGH SAID.
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh, you are so funny, Cheryl. I love to read my old posts. You flatter me so by all the research you do on me. 
For someone with your limited capabilities you are very good at cutting and pasting. Very good toddler's level. Good job!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Oh, you are so funny, Cheryl. I love to read my old posts. You flatter me so by all the research you do on me. 
For someone with your limited capabilities you are very good at cutting and pasting. Very good, toddler's level. Good job!
P.S. You aren't too smart are you dear? All bets are off sweetums. 
:-D


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh, you are so funny, Cheryl. I love to read my old posts. You flatter me so by all the research you do on me.
> For someone with your limited capabilities you are very good at cutting and pasting. Very good toddler's level. Good job!
> P.S. You aren't too smart are you dear? All bets are off sweetums.
> :-D


Heehee, love that picture, Cheeky! :thumbup:


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No rats in the Liberal Left, solowey. That would be you and the guttersnipes you call friends who feed out of the dumpsters and beg for the free handouts you live on. All living large off of the government programs, everyone of you and you accuse others of using the system and it's exactly how you all live, off of us, the hard working taxpayers. You greedy little mean spirited ogres are so afraid someone might take your government assistance away or your medicaid that you scream and holler like the users and lazy slugs that you are. Don't worry dear, you will still be able to survive but you might have to share and that's one thing you righties aren't too good at doing. So like all of you, freeloaders to point the finger at someone else so nobody notices those government checks and food vouchers you get every month. As kind hearted Barbara Bush said to the Hurricane Katrina victims living in the football stadium in New Orleans;"My aren't we living large". Have a lovely day dear. You just won't ever learn will you or maybe your brain has reached maximum capacity and you are incapable of learning anything new. We don't care what you think. Cheeky tried to be kind but I learned that rats and other vermin bite and spread disease and I don't want to catch anything you and your rodent friends may be infected with. You go ahead and post to your little hearts content and we will only laugh or make fun and carry on. :-D


You are absolutely out of your mind and unhinged.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

KPG,

Do you think we should let Admin know that KP has a member who has crossed the line? Or, should we post the rants on A Garden of Friendship? Everyone should see how nutty these folks are.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are absolutely out of your mind and unhinged.


Hmm, is your sentence a pleonasm or a tautology? Not sure, but it's definitely redundant. Try again.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are absolutely out of your mind and unhinged.


And you are as big a liar as Cheryl is. It's what you do and you are absolutely out of your mind and unhinged. Ask someone to put a tether on you so you don't float away.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Do you think we should let Admin know that KP has a member who has crossed the line? Or, should we post the rants on A Garden of Friendship? Everyone should see how nutty these folks are.


Oh please do! I love how you love my work. I am very good at it aren't I. No line you and your dear friends haven't already crossed and I haven't threatened anyone as LTL and Cheryl have done now have I? What a bunch of babies and bullies you are.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm, is your sentence a pleonasm or a tautology? Not sure, but it's definitely redundant. Try again.


Give her some time Susan so she can look it up in the dictionary.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh please do! I love how you love my work. I am very good at it aren't I. No line you and your dear friends haven't already crossed and I haven't threatened anyone as LTL and Cheryl have :thumbup:


Actually I'd love to see your work posted in the Garden, Cheeky. Once again KPG and a few chosen cronies are hold a "love-in" amidst the blossoms while the flunkies take care of the dirty work behind the manure pile.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Give her some time Susan so she can look it up in the dictionary.


Yes, might turn into an all-day project. Never mind answering the question--if she can even find the words in the dictionary I'll be impressed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You are absolutely out of your mind and unhinged.


 :thumbup: You have spoken the truth about her.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Do you think we should let Admin know that KP has a member who has crossed the line? Or, should we post the rants on A Garden of Friendship? Everyone should see how nutty these folks are.


Everyone already knows. She'll self-destruct as always and doesn't have far to go now. Nothing that we can do to help her.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wow, Cherf turned up to fight on her own behalf. Doesn't happen often.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I'd love to see your work posted in the Garden, Cheeky. Once again KPG and a few chosen cronies are hold a "love-in" amidst the blossoms while the flunkies take care of the dirty work behind the manure pile.


This is uncalled for and nasty. I do not think anyones work to be anything but nice. As one of your ladies posted her work and no one said an unkind thing about it. I am not a cronie and if you do not like what is said there why even bother to post there. I am also not a flunkies I also do not work in a manure pile. I am and have been not commenting on anything on other sites for a while, but will not let this comment go by.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Everyone already knows. She'll self-destruct as always, and doesn't have far to go now. Nothing that we can do to help her.


I suggest we don't respond to them in any way. I reported them to admin. I don't post on Smoking and Obamacare, which was started by someone in our group. I suggest someone who does post there report them if they are equally abusive.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow, Cherf turned up to fight on her own behalf. Doesn't happen often.


She always stands in the back and never takes the lead. She isn't leadership material just another sloth letting others do the heavy lifting and then she appears from out of the clouds with, wait for it,wait for it something really stupid.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I suggest we don't respond to them in any way. I reported them to admin. I don't post on Smoking and Obamacare, which was started by someone in our group. I suggest someone who does post there report them if they are equally abusive.


And I reported your abuse as well. I believe you call it tit for tat. Little girls must play their games and you are the one who calls herself crazy. Tsk tsk


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I suggest we don't respond to them in any way. I reported them to admin. I don't post on Smoking and Obamacare, which was started by someone in our group. I suggest someone who does post there report them if they are equally abusive.


Nobody "owns" a thread, Knit Crazy. It is an open forum. If you don't want people posting in a thread then ask admin to start a locked thread for you. So, you reported Cheeky to admin for posting in this thread? Be careful, admin just may ban you for bothersome complaints.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> This is uncalled for and nasty. I do not think anyones work to be anything but nice


Sorry Yarnie--it is true. It appears that the only way the righties can be nice for any length of time is if they take frequent trips to other threads to take care of their "business". Things were going smoothly in the garden until Solo showed up and wanted to fight.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Do you think we should let Admin know that KP has a member who has crossed the line? Or, should we post the rants on A Garden of Friendship? Everyone should see how nutty these folks are.


Your "friends" can't stay off of our threads and they have brought this down on all of you so thank them and don't blame me. You picked them now you are stuck with them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Your "friends" can't stay off of our threads and they have brought this down on all of you so thank them and don't blame me. You picked them now you are stuck with them.





CheekyBlighter said:


> I stay off of D&P, the conservative home base and show them respect by doing that. Same goes for any liberals who do that.
> 
> *When you disrespect another person you are also disrespecting yourself and I have been guilty of it but am making a concerted effort to "clean up my own act".*


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> For my friends:
> 
> God Whispers
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

OK - I'm writing a check to Cruz - hang in there Ted! :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> For my friends:
> 
> God Whispers
> 
> ...


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Well Wild Willie made it through his exam. Laid on the scale talking the whole time. Vet had to wave stuff under his nose to stop his purring last a second did it again. She only heard his heart thump three times. But otherwise was a good kitty.
> 
> but boy this moring he was talking loud and so much I told him to use his inside voice. He is now sleeping on his table in front of window. It wore him out. ( *O * )


I love hearing cats purr. Glad all is good with Willie and he is resting after his exciting morning. Our cats always hated going to the vet, couldn't bring the carrier out until just before we left or they'd go hide somewhere. But they were always polite to the vet. Our Hugo is still very frightened of other people even though it's been more than 12 years since he was abused so we have a vet that makes house calls for him.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> For my friends:
> 
> God Whispers
> 
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Well Wild Willie made it through his exam. Laid on the scale talking the whole time. Vet had to wave stuff under his nose to stop his purring last a second did it again. She only heard his heart thump three times. But otherwise was a good kitty.
> 
> but boy this moring he was talking loud and so much I told him to use his inside voice. He is now sleeping on his table in front of window. It wore him out. ( *O * )


Funny using his inside voice. (^o^)


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Pray for Ted Cruz. He is a true American patriot.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Pray for Ted Cruz. He is a true American patriot.


Finally some men are taking a real stand against the establishment Repubs and the do-nothing Dem lead Senate.

I've been thinking upon what I think Cruz and Lee have planned. I'm anxious to see how my predictions turn out.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Pray for Ted Cruz. He is a true American patriot.


I pray for Ted Cruz every night. I pray that he will find some morals somewhere in his black heart. And to find the brain that God gave him and use it in an intelligent manner.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

The Righter times( if you can't get it right you have it wrong.

News Flash: No I have already told you I am not flashing.

Want to start with the comments sent into me in the complaint department so will answer them here and now:

No no
I don't care
yes one time or another
No I don't want a photo op of you doing the back flip with your dog.
If you don't like my spelling get your own dictionary or better yet you start your own news posts.
No it is not hey hey like last year it is HAY how hard is that to remember?
I don't care if you don't like Polka dots we already have it set up did you not see Photo ops.
No I did not see that strange lady with the big straw hat and wearing a tight redish jump suit and no she is not the flasher, and No I am not going to tell you again. I do not flash,I am more like the give me a chair person and leave me alone.
Yes that is the kitchen sink don't now where it was brought. 

Now on to important news:

New lady in town Go go geeorge has open a beauty Shop and must attend her grand opening. There are a lot of you that can use her work done on your hair. She also does nails. She will polish you up.

Also another refind (try finding her) B Of B bee bee has open a tea shopee. Fancy name for shop not use to re find in this village. She has some kind of tea called "Don't wine O,
She said it is good for unwinding at the end of the day. Must be Knots Crazy is back in town and seem to be unwond to say the least.

Bump her kins has told the neighbor so must tell the rest of you. Her hubby has a new job. She had to get him to do something else besides waxing the dance excise floor.
R U Knots has hired him to wax all the cars that were crashs into for turning left. He will have them shine and new in no time.
L Of the looker has offered to teach a spining class to any one who can or will spin a spell.

KNot gotcha Pin-cushion Is doing the fall festive bowling ball in her famous orange polka dots with black back ground. Also promise to have a great lite show.

Wet coat knumber is having a last minute yarn sale, it happens the last minute before shop closes.If you don't reach the cash register in time no sale. Put on your track shoes ladies.

Bump her kins has a new excise class starting up it called the ball runs over you. Wow just want to do that one soon.

Joey knots your Mommy our new Mayor is asking every one to do fall clean up of park for Festive fall thingie. Any one who complains will be fined a sum of what every sum she can fine.

As to the Fester vole The annual pumpkin dunk will be the spot light game again this year. It will be held at Bumper kins pool and drive by. We ask that this year you do not push any one who is dunking into pool as she had quit a mess to clean up last year. Also there will be no jumping into pool and grabbing pumpkins and climbing out of the pool saying you have won. We saw you last year, and you will be crowned again if you do, and I don't mean the fester one.

I don'[t know about you but I am getting tie erd.
On national news. Hope all saw photo of our icy creamy bandits. They are in great shape and so is the truck. 

To the nosy one who wanted to know how Jane er way and Luck of Loo are doing. They were fine. Loo was sleeping better on the surf board after hurting her back. But that isn't the only reason she is still tied to it. Someone did a slip knot on her. Seem they have head east again where seen in some van with women yelling get off the hood of truck you knut. Jane er way was using the old hood orament you know that thingie thing on front of hood.( I am not looking that one up) singing away . Hi ho the merry oh, loo loo was strap to the roof with surf board attach. 

All the news I feel fit to post. Oh get a job better yet get two jobs and stop complaining about my job as I don't complain about your job so get over it and get a jobbed.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally some men are taking a real stand against the establishment Repubs and the do-nothing Dem lead Senate.
> 
> I've been thinking upon what I think Cruz and Lee have planned. I'm anxious to see how my predictions turn out.


I like Rand Paul's plan to introduce a constitutional amendment to ensure that all federal employees  are forced into the Obamacare system. This would eliminate subsidies for staffers, eliminate legislator's special coverages, and make sure the Supreme Court feels the full force of Obamacare. No subsidies for anyone including union members.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> I like Rand Paul's plan to introduce a constitutional amendment to ensure that all federal employees  are forced into the Obamacare system. This would eliminate subsidies for staffers, eliminate legislator's special coverages, and make sure the Supreme Court feels the full force of Obamacare. No subsidies for anyone including union members.


Always worrying about what the other guy has, right, KC?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I read this and weep. The old GOP always supported it's military and other citizens who needed a hand up. Since insanity has sprung up in the form of The Tea Party these so called young guns will let these people starve who served us all so well. Maybe, I'll take a look and see how many of them served our country. They should be ashamed.

Veterans Hurt by Proposed Food Stamp Cuts

AUGUST 15, 2013 BY LYNN GOYA LEAVE A COMMENT

The Republican push to cut $40 million from the agricultural bill will hit veterans and families of active duty military hard. According to reporting by Stars and Stripes, food stamp use among active duty military and veterans has increased sharply since the U.S. was hit hard by the Great Recession.

While no data is kept on who uses Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)  more commonly known as food stamps  at commissaries nationwide, in 2011 nearly $88 million in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) vouchers were redeemed. Joyce Raezer, executive director for the National Military Family Association, credits the spike in use to veterans separated from the military before retirement and members of the National Guard and Reserve. I suspect that we are talking about more recently [separated], she said, who have gotten out of the military and found out that its not so easy to find a job in the civilian sector, she told Stars and Stripes in 2011.

According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, SNAP benefits are already scheduled to go down. Boosted until November 1, 2013, by the 2009 Recovery Act, families of three will lose $29 a month. That may not seem like very much, but the daily per person per meal benefit will be less than $1.40 once that reduction is in place.

In June, Democrats derailed a $1-billion per year cut to food stamps ensconced in the $1-trillion Farm Bill, but the House GOP is doubling down, trying to cut $20-billion over five years from an upcoming bill. The Senate passed a bill cutting $400 million a year from the SNAP program, but House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas (R-OK) said that the difference between the House and the Senate was so huge and dramatic that the White House may have to intervene.

Many disabled veterans also rely on food stamps. Nationally, 16 percent of all food stamp recipients are disabled, but disabled veterans may have an easier time qualifying for the additional assistance because they have more lenient work search requirements.

Disabled veterans with total disability as determined by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) who is permanently housebound and in need of regular attendance automatically qualifies for food stamp benefits, although they do have to apply through the appropriate agency.

Income requirements are also modified for veterans. Civilians must qualify based on both their gross household income and their net income, while households with a disabled veteran are only required to qualify using net income which may include a deduction for medical expenses related to the veteran above $35 per month. Service-related disability income is not counted as earned income for SNAP purposes.

Civilians with household assets above $2,000 are also ineligible for supplemental food assistance; if the household houses a veteran, that limit rises to $3,000. A veterans Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefits are also excluded from household income. Any veteran who lives alone and receives SSI automatically qualifies for food stamps, unless (s)he is a resident of California, wherein instead of food stamps, SSI benefits are increased.

Special consideration for veterans with regards to food stamp assistance also applies to dependents and survivors.

Nearly 600 veterans signed a letter through VoteVets.org asking the Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) and Thad Cochran (R-MS) , chairs of the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition & Forestry committee, to continue to provide food stamps, saying that they are among those who are food insecure and rely upon the program to feed themselves and their families. Nearly 1.5 million households with a veteran received food-stamp benefits, through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), in 2011.
Sadly, this also includes far too many members of the military who are on active duty. In that same year, over $100 million in food aid was used on military bases, the letter states. We have received food assistance, too. The benefits under the SNAP program are no hand out. They are simply a bridge to get people through hard times, and ensure their families dont starve.

- See more at: http://www.veteranjournal.com/veterans-hurt-by-proposed-food-stamp-cuts/#sthash.eFAielE1.dpuf

This from Veteranjouranl.com but the Tea Party still denies it hurts enlisted men and women's families and our Veterans. God bless all who serve and have served and have mercy on the Tea Party members who voted to deny them and their families, the elderly and the poor of food to eat. Jesus fed those who needed to be fed just as these people do. There will always be people who take advantage but the vast majority of people don't want charity they want to be able to take care of themselves and their families. God will judge them. You don't know who does and doesn't deserve these things. You are letting hatred and not Christian love guide you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bonnie I forgot I saw your tizzley yarn in person. It is neat. I didn't buy it but it was so neat looking. I found it in Hancocks. Ours closed down a few years ago so I try to find one when on vacation. Maybe that is why I don't sew anymore no store to buy fabric.:{


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I like Rand Paul's plan to introduce a constitutional amendment to ensure that all federal employees  are forced into the Obamacare system. This would eliminate subsidies for staffers, eliminate legislator's special coverages, and make sure the Supreme Court feels the full force of Obamacare. No subsidies for anyone including union members.


Pretty ridiculous that Rand had to make any amendment to ensure the law is implemented AS WRITTEN and PASSED. Since our President prefers to pick and choose which sections of a passed law will HE wants legislated, he is able to be impeached. Impeachment is a waste of time other than to cement the ruin of O-me's reputation and pull his law license, So at least some of the Conservative and Tea Party Repub Senators are at least showing the do-nothing Senate Dems what legislating is all about.

Harry Reid is completely worthless and has the lowest approval rating of anyone in Congress. Well-deserved.


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## Smallfries (Sep 22, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes it sounds like the media they pass over everything that has to do with real heros .


If they passed over it, how did you hear of it?

Duh.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> KPG,
> 
> Do you think we should let Admin know that KP has a member who has crossed the line? Or, should we post the rants on A Garden of Friendship? Everyone should see how nutty these folks are.


Knit crazy
I am with you, let us report about crossing the line. I have plenty to report. Go ahead. Fair is fair.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Smallfries said:


> If they passed over it, how did you hear of it?
> 
> Duh.


Smallfries
you need to learn not to ask such difficult questions. I am scaling down my language and I tell you it is a real problem meeting "the standard" of some of them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Pretty ridiculous that Rand had to make any amendment to ensure the law is implemented AS WRITTEN and PASSED. Since our President prefers to pick and choose which sections of a passed law will HE wants legislated, he is able to be impeached. Impeachment is a waste of time other than to cement the ruin of O-me's reputation and pull his law license, So at least some of the Conservative and Tea Party Repub Senators are at least showing the do-nothing Senate Dems what legislating is all about.
> 
> Harry Reid is completely worthless and has the lowest approval rating of anyone in Congress. Well-deserved.


KPG
keep posting and continue to confirm that you are tuity fruity.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bonnie I forgot I saw your tizzley yarn in person. It is neat. I didn't buy it but it was so neat looking. I found it in Hancocks. Ours closed down a few years ago so I try to find one when on vacation. Maybe that is why I don't sew anymore no store to buy fabric.:{


Country Bumpkins
where on this Earth do you live? Even the smallest Towns outside my City have Stores which sell fabric and then there is the Internet.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I read this and weep. The old GOP always supported it's military and other citizens who needed a hand up. Since insanity has sprung up in the form of The Tea Party these so called young guns will let these people starve who served us all so well. Maybe, I'll take a look and see how many of them served our country. They should be ashamed.
> 
> Veterans Hurt by Proposed Food Stamp Cuts
> 
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
I thank you for posting such vital information. We need to let the World see how insane the Tea Party really is. We need to expose them as much as possible.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh, you are so funny, Cheryl. I love to read my old posts. You flatter me so by all the research you do on me.
> For someone with your limited capabilities you are very good at cutting and pasting. Very good toddler's level. Good job!


This one is much better.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Does anyone have any thoughts about the new TV pilot with Michael J. Foxx with him showcasing Parkinsons disease?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> where on this Earth do you live? Even the smallest Towns outside my City have Stores which sell fabric and then there is the Internet.


 :-o


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :-o


planet earth like the rest of us. Just more down to earth then some are on here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts about the new TV pilot with Michael J. Foxx with him showcasing Parkinsons disease?


Haven't heard that. When does it start would be interesting to watch. I always liked him.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts about the new TV pilot with Michael J. Foxx with him showcasing Parkinsons disease?


Haven't heard about it. He has been on The Good Wife.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Pretty ridiculous that Rand had to make any amendment to ensure the law is implemented AS WRITTEN and PASSED. Since our President prefers to pick and choose which sections of a passed law will HE wants legislated, he is able to be impeached. Impeachment is a waste of time other than to cement the ruin of O-me's reputation and pull his law license, So at least some of the Conservative and Tea Party Repub Senators are at least showing the do-nothing Senate Dems what legislating is all about.
> 
> Harry Reid is completely worthless and has the lowest approval rating of anyone in Congress. Well-deserved.


This is so ridiculous I don't know whether to embarrassed for you or just laugh. Good God!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Haven't heard about it. He has been on The Good Wife.


Yes, I like that show but don't always catch it. I heard about Michael's new show and theme recently and was very surprised they would handle Parkinson's in the show as described.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Haven't heard that. When does it start would be interesting to watch. I always liked him.


It is to premier in the Fall of 2013 for about 20 or so episodes. It is still untitled and hailed as a family comedy. I'm flabbergasted the producers feel viewers wish to watch those with the challenge of Parkinsons be treated as comedy.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It is to premier in the Fall of 2013 for about 20 or so episodes. It is still untitled and hailed as a family comedy. I'm flabbergasted the producers feel viewers wish to watch those with the challenge of Parkinsons be treated as comedy.


Are they making fun of the disease?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Are they making fun of the disease?


Of course I don't know as haven't seen any episodes nor intend to watch. I heard that it will.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Of course I don't know as haven't seen any episodes nor intend to watch. I heard that it will.


I probably won't be watching it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It is to premier in the Fall of 2013 for about 20 or so episodes. It is still untitled and hailed as a family comedy. I'm flabbergasted the producers feel viewers wish to watch those with the challenge of Parkinsons be treated as comedy.


KPG
you are already judging. Nothing new with you of course. Let Mr. Fox decide what is right and what is not. It is his call, not yours. It is his disability and I am sure that he wants people to learn a much as possible about it. One of our loved Ones suffered from it and we will watch the Show.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I probably won't be watching it.


I've seen the trailer--the producers and writers are struggling to achieve a light-hearted effect, I think because Fox has been so obviously ravaged by that horrible disease. As far as I know, this is one of the very few sitcoms--perhaps the only one--that features an actor or actress with an obvious physical disability. I think it's a step in the right direction--people with disabilities shouldn't be marginalized or hidden from sight--but I do find it sad. Can't help remembering the bright and perky Alex Keaton of Family Ties.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

double post


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, I like that show but don't always catch it. I heard about Michael's new show and theme recently and was very surprised they would handle Parkinson's in the show as described.


I saw a preview piece, but it made me uncomfortable. I have a friend, who's husband died from Parkinson's, and I don't think it's funny.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I probably won't be watching it.


Country Bumpkins
why not may I ask?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I've seen the trailer--the producers and writers are struggling to achieve a light-hearted effect, I think because Fox has been so obviously ravaged by that horrible disease. As far as I know, this is one of the very few sitcoms--perhaps the only one--that features an actor or actress with an obvious physical disability. I think it's a step in the right direction--people with disabilities shouldn't be marginalized or hidden from sight--but I do find it sad. Can't help remembering the bright and perky Alex Keaton of Family Ties.


I didn't say a physical disability needs to be hid. I have a disabled husband in a wheel chair. I try to get him out of the house as much as possible. But I don't want anyone making fun of him because of him being an amputee. I just said I would probably would not be watching the show. You spin every thing. It is sad that Michael J Fox is sick but no one needs to make fun of a disease.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> why not may I ask?


Because I don't want to.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> you are already judging. Nothing new with you of course. Let Mr. Fox decide what is right and what is not. It is his call, not yours. It is his disability and I am sure that he wants people to learn a much as possible about it. One of our loved Ones suffered from it and we will watch the Show.


I'm not judging Michael. I've decided I don't agree with the premise and will not watch, just as you've decided you will. Stop judging me. Why is it that no matter what I write, you've done or experienced the same or have the same yet never are you agreeable. Do you have a civility problem?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> I saw a preview piece, but it made me uncomfortable. I have a friend, who's husband died from Parkinson's, and I don't think it's funny.


Neither do I.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't say a physical disability needs to be hid. I have a disabled husband in a wheel chair. I try to get him out of the house as much as possible. But I don't want anyone making fun of him because of him being an amputee. I just said I would probably would not be watching the show. You spin every thing. It is sad that Michael J Fox is sick but no one needs to make fun of a disease.


 :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't say a physical disability needs to be hid. I have a disabled husband in a wheel chair. I try to get him out of the house as much as possible. But I don't want anyone making fun of him because of him being an amputee. I just said I would probably not be watching the show. You spin every thing. It is sad that Michael J Fox is sick but no one needs to make fun of a disease.


How did I spin anything? I didn't accuse you specifically of wanting to hide people with disabilities--I think the sight of a person with these kinds of challenges make many of us uncomfortable at times, myself included. My mother was in a wheelchair for the last decade of her life--believe me, I know what it's like to have a severely disabled family member.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> you are already judging. Nothing new with you of course. Let Mr. Fox decide what is right and what is not. It is his call, not yours. It is his disability and I am sure that he wants people to learn a much as possible about it. One of our loved Ones suffered from it and we will watch the Show.


It is Michael Fox's decision whether he showcases his disability. It is my decision whether I watch it. It is not your decision or right to judge why or whether I watch it. You do a lot of judging for someone who is constantly accusing others of doing so. I think you have OCD. You certainly want to control other's decisions.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Are they making fun of the disease?


I sure don't think so. I think they're showing a guy with Parkinson's who is funny. Michael J. Fox has always been funny, and I guess that hasn't changed. I like him a lot. I think I read that he said he was feeling pretty good and decided he wanted to work.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Of course I don't know as haven't seen any episodes nor intend to watch. I heard that it will.


That would be terrible. I can't imagine anyone who has it making fun of it. Although I do know that sometimes people can even joke about their own serious illness or a big operation. You certainly would never joke about someone else in that situation.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I've seen the trailer--the producers and writers are struggling to achieve a light-hearted effect, I think because Fox has been so obviously ravaged by that horrible disease. As far as I know, this is one of the very few sitcoms--perhaps the only one--that features an actor or actress with an obvious physical disability. I think it's a step in the right direction--people with disabilities shouldn't be marginalized or hidden from sight--but I do find it sad. Can't help remembering the bright and perky Alex Keaton of Family Ties.


I agree - that makes me sad, too.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is so ridiculous I don't know whether to embarrassed for you or just laugh. Good God!


Your opinion is meaningless. You have exposed your ignorance so often that we don't expect much from you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't say a physical disability needs to be hid. I have a disabled husband in a wheel chair. I try to get him out of the house as much as possible. But I don't want anyone making fun of him because of him being an amputee. I just said I would probably would not be watching the show. You spin every thing. It is sad that Michael J Fox is sick but no one needs to make fun of a disease.


He seems like a nice person. I can't imagine that he would make fun of people with the disease. But - he's naturally funny, so I can see him laughing at himself. I don't know when it's on. I like him so might be inclined to watch, hoping it's successful.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I didn't say a physical disability needs to be hid. I have a disabled husband in a wheel chair. I try to get him out of the house as much as possible. But I don't want anyone making fun of him because of him being an amputee. I just said I would probably would not be watching the show. You spin every thing. It is sad that Michael J Fox is sick but no one needs to make fun of a disease.


I agree - can't imagine anyone making fun of another person's disability or illness. That would be cruel.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Because I don't want to.


That's the best reason I can think of, CB! You always make so much sense! :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Your opinion is meaningless. You have exposed your ignorance so often that we don't expect much from you.


  Guess she missed reading one of her sources, The Daily KOS, who has the poll results (done by Gallup) and others and have a article discussing same by one of their staff. She should be embarrassed for not having a pulse on the news as she claims to.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> It is Michael Fox's decision whether he showcases his disability. It is my decision whether I watch it. It is not your decision or right to judge why or whether I watch it. You do a lot of judging for someone who is constantly accusing others of doing so. I think you have OCD. You certainly want to control other's decisions.


Exactly, KC. You don't have to justify your feelings to anyone on here.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Your opinion is meaningless. You have exposed your ignorance so often that we don't expect much from you.


He is doing the show because he wants people to understand that he is no different than anyone else who has Parkinson's. You did know he has it didn't you? He isn't uncomfortable with it and he doesn't want other people to feel uncomfortable either. I saw him interviewed and he has spasms and muscle tremors and they are obvious. I think he is trying to open the door for others so they can be on TV or make movies and that is a good thing. If people have problems watching him he said it is their problem not his.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Guess she missed reading one of her sources, The Daily KOS, who has the poll results (done by Gallup) and others and have a article discussion same by one of their staff. She should be embarrassed for not having a pulse on the news as she claims to.


I read those poll results as well, but the approval rating were pretty dismal for all Congressional leaders: Reid--33%, Boehner--37%, McConnell--35%. Pelosi scored the highest with an positive rating of 39%.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I read those poll results as well, but the approval rating were pretty dismal for all Congressional leaders: Reid--33%, Boehner--37%, McConnell--35%. Pelosi scored the highest with an positive rating of 39%.


Go Nancy! She is the most intelligent in that bunch, then Reid of course. I have heard Boehner and McConnell are getting the boot because they are too liberal for the Tea Party. I was shocked at the fascination these young men have with Ayn Rand. I wonder if it bothered them that she slept with a lot of men young enough to be her sons while she was married and was an atheist. Seems rather perverted for young Christians to be so fascinated by someone like her. I guess it was her ruthless political and economic views that they are trying to emulate. She was a master at that and one very disturbed woman.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I read those poll results as well, but the approval rating were pretty dismal for all Congressional leaders: Reid--33%, Boehner--37%, McConnell--35%. Pelosi scored the highest with an positive rating of 39%.


Well, susan, you have never been good with numbers, bless your heart.

Here's some excerpts of the poll and article:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has a 35 percent approval rating, while 37 percent disapprove of him. = net -2 disapprove

House Minority Leader Nancy *Pelosi* (D-Calif.) has the approval of 39 percent of people, *but 51 percent disapprove. * = net -12 disapprove  Nancy wins in the negative ratings rate!

The poll comes as Congress bumps up against a duo of fiscal deadlines, one to fund the government and another to raise the debt ceiling in mid-October. Congressional leaders have been at loggerheads about how to proceed.

Most of the approval ratings break down along party lines.

*Nowhere is that clearer than with Pelosi, who holds 83 percent disapproval among Republicans while 65 percent of Democrats approve. * = averages to 74 percent of both houses disapprove of Pelosi.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:
 

> Well, susan, you have never been good with numbers, bless your heart.
> 
> Here's some excerpts:
> 
> ...


Certainly having a problem with comprehension tonight, aren't you Cherf? I never quoted any figures that indicated disapproval ratings--nor did you in your initial post. Might be time to get your eyes checked, sweetheart.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Go Nancy! She is the most intelligent in that bunch, then Reid of course. I have heard Boehner and McConnell are getting the boot because they are too liberal for the Tea Party. I was shocked at the fascination these young men have with Ayn Rand. I wonder if it bothered them that she slept with a lot of men young enough to be her sons while she was married and was an atheist. Seems rather perverted for young Christians to be so fascinated by someone like her. I guess it was her ruthless political and economic views that they are trying to emulate. She was a master at that and one very disturbed woman.


I can kind of understand why they find her so appealing--the woman arranged to have a six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign placed near her casket during the funeral. What Republican could ask for more?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He is doing the show because he wants people to understand that he is no different than anyone else who has Parkinson's. You did know he has it didn't you? He isn't uncomfortable with it and he doesn't want other people to feel uncomfortable either. I saw him interviewed and he has spasms and muscle tremors and they are obvious. I think he is trying to open the door for others so they can be on TV or make movies and that is a good thing. If people have problems watching him he said it is their problem not his.


You are switching topics. My response was to your nasty comment about KPG's Rand Paul comment.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Certainly having a problem with comprehension tonight, aren't you Cherf? I never quoted any figures that indicated disapproval ratings--nor did you in your initial post. Might be time to get your eyes checked, sweetheart.


1) I am Knitpresentgifts. Why don't you respond to Cherf who you are obsessed with instead of me?

2) It is thee who is blind and cannot see. I most certainly spoke about disapproval ratings in my original post that Bratty criticized and KC and you followed up upon. Get a clue as you are completely lost.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I am Knitpresentgifts. Why don't you respond to Cherf who you are obsessed with instead of me?
> 
> 2) It is thee who is blind and cannot see. I most certainly spoke about disapproval ratings in my original post that Bratty criticized and KC and you followed up upon. Get a clue as you are completely lost.


Wrong again, Cherf. Here are your words exactly:

"Pretty ridiculous that Rand had to make any amendment to ensure the law is implemented AS WRITTEN and PASSED. Since our President prefers to pick and choose which sections of a passed law will HE wants legislated, he is able to be impeached. Impeachment is a waste of time other than to cement the ruin of O-me's reputation and pull his law license, So at least some of the Conservative and Tea Party Repub Senators are at least showing the do-nothing Senate Dems what legislating is all about.

Harry Reid is completely worthless and has the lowest approval rating of anyone in Congress. Well-deserved."


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I am Knitpresentgifts. Why don't you respond to Cherf who you are obsessed with instead of me?
> 
> 2) It is thee who is blind and cannot see. I most certainly spoke about disapproval ratings in my original post that Bratty criticized and KC and you followed up upon. Get a clue as you are completely lost.


It's deliberate ignorance KPG. I heard that the highest ranked American Catholic Bishop in the Vatican is recommending Pelosi be denied communion due to her abortion position. It's about time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> It's deliberate ignorance KPG. I heard that the highest ranked American Catholic Bishop in the Vatican is recommending Pelosi be denied communion due to her abortion position. It's about time.


Tail kinking again, KC?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I never quoted any figures that indicated * disapproval ratings--nor did you* in your initial post.





susanmos2000 said:


> Here are your words exactly:





knitpresentgifts said:


> Harry Reid is completely worthless and has *the lowest approval rating* of anyone in Congress. Well-deserved.


Yep - there it is now in bold font for you to SEE just as I SAID.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep - there it is now in bold font for you to SEE just as I SAID.


Wow--you really have lost it, Cherf. You lambasted me for not mentioning DISAPPROVAL ratings in my post as you yourself claimed you did--and now you just highlighted your use of APPROVAL ratings. Do you even know the difference?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow--you really have lost it, Cherf. You lambasted me for not mentioning DISAPPROVAL ratings in my post as you yourself claimed you did--and now you just highlighted your use of APPROVAL ratings. Do you even know the difference?


You're beyond teaching, Ralph.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.

Ayn Rand

The Libs are obviously not creative people.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're beyond teaching, Ralph.


You goofed, Cherf--again. I think you need a good night's sleep.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts about the new TV pilot with Michael J. Foxx with him showcasing Parkinsons disease?


I understand the new Michael J. Fox show premiers this Thursday, Sep. 26. I'm going to watch it for sure. I'm proud of Michael continuing acting even if, as some people say, he has a "disability". It's a physical "disability" not a mental one & I'm aure he knows exactly what he'a doing. My father had Parkinson's 18 years & I'd venture to say if Daddy could have acted in those 18 years he would have gladly, joyfully done so. I didn't know 'till after my Dad died that as a young man he wanted to be an actor. So when I see Michael still acting, still being a productive human being, I commend him....I say good for you Michael.....do your acting in memory of my wonderful Daddy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.
> 
> Ayn Rand
> 
> The Libs are obviously not creative people.


I like this quote by Ayn.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I can kind of understand why they find her so appealing--the woman arranged to have a six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign placed near her casket during the funeral. What Republican could ask for more?


That was her god and that's their new god in the Tea Party. The righties out here just genuflect and bow down and suck up every word that the mad men running the party spew out of their mouths. Every time I force myself to watch them on TV you come out on KP and word for word Cherf , crazy knitter and LTL are just repeating them verbatum. I guess they don't want to read or even dare consider they may be wrong or have any independent thought because they might be sent to hell for doubting the big $$$$$$$$$$$$. Still they pretend they are people of God but God knows what they really think and far be it for me to say who is worth or not and maybe their cruel and evil behavior out here is because they are miserable people who feel better by making other people miserable too. Then they don't have to suffer alone. I sleep well at night with no cares as I am just who I am and my Creator loves me and I even ask that they be blessed too. You know how we are supposed to love those who despise us. Some of them sure make it difficult though and some days I just have to give them a poke back. That's the cheeky in me. :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Do you admire her comments concerning God and her hedonist behavior and all the lives she ruined both men and women because she thought she was the center of the world. She was morally depraved. I saw her interviewed several times on TV and she reminds me a lot of you Cheryl. Everywhere you go on KP you demand that people pay attention to you. You go from thread to thread and insert yourself into discussions others are having and then turn on people who don't agree with you. She exhibited the same behavior even in interviews. Do you like being compared to a person like that. People didn't love her they were afraid of her even her friends and husband feared her. That seems to be how you conduct yourself too. Even her physical appearance betrayed her evil and controlling nature. She was ugly on the outside too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't miss my new avatar of Ayn Rand with a $$$$ pin on her shoulder. I'm not sure how long I can stand it.



susanmos2000 said:


> I can kind of understand why they find her so appealing--the woman arranged to have a six-foot floral arrangement in the shape of a dollar sign placed near her casket during the funeral. What Republican could ask for more?


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the lepers bell of an approaching looter.

Ayn Rand


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Wealth is the product of mans capacity to think.

Ayn Rand


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Ayn Rand, was a Russian-born American novelist and philosopher. She is widely known for her best-selling novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, and for developing a philosophical system she called Objectivism. She was an uncompromising advocate of rational individualism and laissez-faire capitalism, and vociferously opposed socialism, altruism, and other contemporary philosophical trends. She is generally either hated or loved. Her objectivist philosophy had a strong influence on the evolution of the Libertarian political philosophy movement (though she rejected the title).


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the lepers bell of an approaching looter.
> 
> Ayn Rand


Money is like anything else. It can be used for good or for evil. The problem with Ayn Rand was it meant everything to her. She started out working in the movie industry and then started spreading her "philosophy" after her book The Fountain Head, became so popular. I cannot believe in any thinking that demands that you set your morals aside for the sole purpose of amassing money. Money can do wonderful things and in and of itself is neither good or bad. People have a right to be wealthy but I believe you should conduct your business, whatever it is , in an ethical way. Ethics are even taught in many professions and she had no time for that as she considered it foolish. I can't admire that in anyone, rich or poor.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Ayn Rand, was a Russian-born American novelist and philosopher. She is widely known for her best-selling novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, and for developing a philosophical system she called Objectivism. She was an uncompromising advocate of rational individualism and laissez-faire capitalism, and vociferously opposed socialism, altruism, and other contemporary philosophical trends. She is generally either hated or loved. Her objectivist philosophy had a strong influence on the evolution of the Libertarian political philosophy movement (though she rejected the title).


Doesn't the fact that she had no ethics concern you? What about those who inherit wealth and live off of what a relative worked for and earned. What do you think she thought about those people. I would think she would want them to work also and increase the wealth and just not live off of interest and dividends.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Ayn Rand, was a Russian-born American novelist and philosopher. She is widely known for her best-selling novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, and for developing a philosophical system she called Objectivism. She was an uncompromising advocate of rational individualism and laissez-faire capitalism, and vociferously opposed socialism, altruism, and other contemporary philosophical trends. She is generally either hated or loved. Her objectivist philosophy had a strong influence on the evolution of the Libertarian political philosophy movement (though she rejected the title).


I do like Ron Paul and a lot of Libertarian ideas. He really began the Tea Party and I think he is a good man. I have no respect for his son.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She also rejected religion.



Knit crazy said:


> Ayn Rand, was a Russian-born American novelist and philosopher. She is widely known for her best-selling novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, and for developing a philosophical system she called Objectivism. She was an uncompromising advocate of rational individualism and laissez-faire capitalism, and vociferously opposed socialism, altruism, and other contemporary philosophical trends. She is generally either hated or loved. Her objectivist philosophy had a strong influence on the evolution of the Libertarian political philosophy movement (though she rejected the title).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Money is like anything else. It can be used for good or for evil. The problem with Ayn Rand was it meant everything to her. She started out working in the movie industry and then started spreading her "philosophy" after her book The Fountain Head, became so popular. I cannot believe in any thinking that demands that you set your morals aside for the sole purpose of amassing money. Money can do wonderful things and in and of itself is neither good or bad. People have a right to be wealthy but I believe you should conduct your business, whatever it is , in an ethical way. Ethics are even taught in many professions and she had no time for that as she considered it foolish. I can't admire that in anyone, rich or poor.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Your opinion is meaningless. You have exposed your ignorance so often that we don't expect much from you.


KC, you make a good point here. I guess we shouldn't expect much except the usual criticism and hostility. Once that's our expectation, we won't be surprised or disappointed or even annoyed. I hadn't thought of it that way. Great insight!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is off the subject, But the highest American Catholic Bishop, Raymond Burke, in the Vatican is from my husbands home town. He went to school with his sister, and I spent quite a bit of time with her when I was in College.


Very interesting! Nice to have personal experience with someone like that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I understand the new Michael J. Fox show premiers this Thursday, Sep. 26. I'm going to watch it for sure. I'm proud of Michael continuing acting even if, as some people say, he has a "disability". It's a physical "disability" not a mental one & I'm aure he knows exactly what he'a doing. My father had Parkinson's 18 years & I'd venture to say if Daddy could have acted in those 18 years he would have gladly, joyfully done so. I didn't know 'till after my Dad died that as a young man he wanted to be an actor. So when I see Michael still acting, still being a productive human being, I commend him....I say good for you Michael.....do your acting in memory of my wonderful Daddy


That's a very nice way to look at it - and a lovely tribute to your Dad.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I do like Ron Paul and a lot of Libertarian ideas. He really began the Tea Party and I think he is a good man. I have no respect for his son.


Well, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

damemary said:


> She also rejected religion.


So do many people. She 's dead, and I hope she found God. I don't hate atheists. I hate bullies and intolerance. Many of Rand's ideas speak to my belief in taking personal responsibility and getting yourself right before trying to accept responsibility for others. Fix yourself or you can't fix the world.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Doesn't the fact that she had no ethics concern you? What about those who inherit wealth and live off of what a relative worked for and earned. What do you think she thought about those people. I would think she would want them to work also and increase the wealth and just not live off of interest and dividends.


I don't think Rand worried much about what others did with their money. It is you that does. She developed a personal philosophy, not one that tried to change the world.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That was her god and that's their new god in the Tea Party. The righties out here just genuflect and bow down and suck up every word that the mad men running the party spew out of their mouths. Every time I force myself to watch them on TV you come out on KP and word for word Cherf , crazy knitter and LTL are just repeating them verbatum. I guess they don't want to read or even dare consider they may be wrong or have any independent thought because they might be sent to hell for doubting the big $$$$$$$$$$$$. Still they pretend they are people of God but God knows what they really think and far be it for me to say who is worth or not and maybe their cruel and evil behavior out here is because they are miserable people who feel better by making other people miserable too. Then they don't have to suffer alone. I sleep well at night with no cares as I am just who I am and my Creator loves me and I even ask that they be blessed too. You know how we are supposed to love those who despise us. Some of them sure make it difficult though and some days I just have to give them a poke back. That's the cheeky in me. :thumbup:


Why are you posting on this thread if our ideas make you so miserable? We are educated adults with well formed ideas. You aren't going to change them. Go to a thread that makes you happy. You are here because you like to fight and attack those who disagree with you. That is the only possible reason, and you bring the fighting here.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Heard about a former British Marine that was in the Kenya Mall. He went back in and out saving over 100 lives. He was an armed hero...wondering if there was a Starbucks in that mall and the CEO was having coffee in there. Would he let the marine save him or take his chances that the really bad guys would abide by Starbucks policy and not bring their weapons in? I'm leaving with the Marine!!! Kudos to that brave hero.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I probably won't be watching it.


Neither will I.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm not judging Michael. I've decided I don't agree with the premise and will not watch, just as you've decided you will. Stop judging me. Why is it that no matter what I write, you've done or experienced the same or have the same yet never are you agreeable. Do you have a civility problem?


The problem is that she is nuts in the head.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Why are you posting on this thread if our ideas make you so miserable? We are educated adults with well formed ideas. You are 't going to change them. Go to a thread that makes you happy. You are here because you like to fight and attack those who disagree with you. That is the only possible reason, and you bring the fighting here.


Sad, but true. Would hate to live a life that is so filled with such angry angst.

Bless that British Marine (and every other service man and women that believe in sacrificing themselves for others). Now there is a hero. I also saw how many of the Kenyans fought to save others. Again more heroes. Those terrorists are truly evil


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Neither will I.


I probably won't either, MJF has a political agenda that I do not agree with, so will not watch. Not supporting his sponsors is a way to for me to voice my opposition. Not that I can have any economic impact, but it is the best I can do at this time, and stay true to my values


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Sad, but true. Would hate to live a life that is so filled with such angry angst.
> 
> Bless that British Marine (and every other service man and women that believe in sacrificing themselves for others). Now there is a hero. I also saw how many of the Kenyans fought to save others. Again more heroes. Those terrorists are truly evil


I sure agree with you on that. Terrorism is just objectifying others and caring so little for human life that you think you have the right to take it. I struggle to make sense of such a philosophy. I don't see how anyone who has given birth or seen a new born baby (human or animal) can think life is not precious.

I struggle to reconcile the Muslim statements that theirs is a peaceful religion with what I see and hear is happening in every Muslim country.

Something is wrong with the picture. Either Muslims are so afraid of Muslim radicalism that they won't speak out for fear of retribution, or the Muslim faith is the problem. As more and more terrorism occurs, I am leaning toward the later belief and building an arsenal to fend them off.

History teaches that those who don't watch and prepare will rue the day.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I probably won't either, MJF has a political agenda that I do not agree with, so will not watch. Not supporting his sponsors is a way to for me to voice my opposition. Not that I can have any economic impact, but it is the best I can do at this time, and stay true to my values


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Wealth is the product of mans capacity to think.
> 
> Ayn Rand


 :-D :-D :-D Guess this explains why hundreds of millions require unearned (and undeserved) govt assistance!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> KC, you make a good point here. I guess we shouldn't expect much except the usual criticism and hostility. Once that's our expectation, we won't be surprised or disappointed or even annoyed. I hadn't thought of it that way. Great insight!


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Why are you posting on this thread if our ideas make you so miserable? We are educated adults with well formed ideas. You aren't going to change them. Go to a thread that makes you happy. You are here because you like to fight and attack those who disagree with you. That is the only possible reason, and you bring the fighting here.


She does so because we don't post much on the threads she begins and that annoys her as she cannot control us nor dress us down on her threads (or anywhere) for that matter.

It is a joy to ignore her posts.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Here is the adv I spoke about prior. Why the heck is Hillary sporting a sideburn: :shock: :shock: :shock:    :lol: :lol: :lol: Notice how young she is and with short hair - this picture was from years ago as well. Yet - I never knew she wore Elvis sideburns!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The problem is that she is nuts in the head.


Well said - you put that in a nutshell.

:shock:

(Get it - NUTS - NUTshell? ) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Another Fudge Brownie Pie
&#9819;&#9819; Fudge Brownie Pie&#9819;&#9819;

3/4 cup flour
1 cup of regular sugar
1/4 cup unsweetened cocoa powder, sifted
1 teaspoon baking powder
1/4 tsp salt
4 ounces butter, melted OR MARGERINE
2 large eggs, beaten
2 teaspoons vanilla
1/2 cup chopped toasted pecans
2 handfuls of mini marshmallows

For the frosting:

2 ounces butter, melted (1/4 cup)
1 ounce cocoa powder, sifted (1/4 cup)
2 ounces evaporated milk (1/4 cup)
1 cup powdered sugar, sifted (8 ounces)

Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Butter a 9 inch spring form pan set aside.

Whisk together the flour, sugar, cocoa powder, baking powder and salt in a bowl. Beat together the butter, eggs and vanilla. Add to the dry ingredients and mix until smooth. Stir in the toasted nuts. Pour into the prepared pan.

Bake on a middle shelf of the oven for 25 to 30 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out clean. Immediately sprinkle the marshmallows on top and return to the oven for a few minutes to melt the marshmallows. Remove from the oven and carefully spread the chocolate frosting over top.

To make the chocolate frosting mix all ingredients together in a bowl,
beating with an electric whisk until smooth and thick. Spread on the hot marshmallows. Let cool completely. Cut into wedges to serve.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Delicious, CB!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Boy how plans can change. Got up early to take a friend to Hobby Lobby and lunch. Pouring rain. She uses a walker, and it's too risky in the rain. 

So on to Plan B - iron and listen to the filibuster. Surprising how very interesting it is. (Not the ironing.)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Heard about a former British Marine that was in the Kenya Mall. He went back in and out saving over 100 lives. He was an armed hero...wondering if there was a Starbucks in that mall and the CEO was having coffee in there. Would he let the marine save him or take his chances that the really bad guys would abide by Starbucks policy and not bring their weapons in? I'm leaving with the Marine!!! Kudos to that brave hero.


Good point! I'd leave with the Marine, too.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheers to Ted Cruz - 21 hours and 20 minutes of non-stop, no breaks, speaking thoughtfully on the Senate floor!

He is a modern day hero who stood (literally) for what he believes and what his constituents put him in office to do.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I probably won't either, MJF has a political agenda that I do not agree with, so will not watch. Not supporting his sponsors is a way to for me to voice my opposition. Not that I can have any economic impact, but it is the best I can do at this time, and stay true to my values


Hey...Not disagreeing with you in any way - not entering into a political discussion...just curious....what is MJF's political agenda...I'm very interested.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too. I have no idea what you mean either.



Georgiegirl said:


> Hey...Not disagreeing with you in any way - not entering into a political discussion...just curious....what is MJF's political agenda...I'm very interested.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheers to Ted Cruz - 21 hours and 20 minutes of non-stop, no breaks, speaking thoughtfully on the Senate floor!
> 
> He is a modern day hero who stood (literally) for what he believes and what his constituents put him in office to do.


I agree.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :-D :-D :-D Guess this explains why hundreds of millions require unearned (and undeserved) govt assistance!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Well said - you put that in a nutshell.
> 
> :shock:
> 
> (Get it - NUTS - NUTshell? ) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Me too. I have no idea what you mean either.


I'm guessing it has to do with stem cell research. The Michael J. Fox collects donations for that with the hope that it may one day provide a cure for Parkinson's and the like.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

triple dog dare you


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Still have the earache so in bed again--tired of the trolls taking up too many pages. Back to bed.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbzqgqIHb78&feature=youtu.be
> 
> triple dog dare you


_She_ is superb.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Here is a sign from a craft shop: I'll say no more! :lol:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> I understand the new Michael J. Fox show premiers this Thursday, Sep. 26. I'm going to watch it for sure. I'm proud of Michael continuing acting even if, as some people say, he has a "disability". It's a physical "disability" not a mental one & I'm aure he knows exactly what he'a doing. My father had Parkinson's 18 years & I'd venture to say if Daddy could have acted in those 18 years he would have gladly, joyfully done so. I didn't know 'till after my Dad died that as a young man he wanted to be an actor. So when I see Michael still acting, still being a productive human being, I commend him....I say good for you Michael.....do your acting in memory of my wonderful Daddy


Not Parkinson's to my knowledge, but Katherine Hepburn had a disorder later in her life. She had uncontrollable movement of her head (that was visible). She kept acting and tried very hard to keep the movement down. She was able to work with the illness into her 70's. Good for MJF, I hope this show is successful as his others have been.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here is a sign from a craft shop: I'll say no more! :lol:


So funny! Do you think they did that on purpose?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not Parkinson's to my knowledge, but Katherine Hepburn had a disorder later in her life. She had uncontrollable movement of her head (that was visible). She kept acting and tried very hard to keep the movement down. She was able to work with the illness into her 70's. Good for MJF, I hope this show is successful as his others have been.


I just found this about Katherine Hepburn:

"Search All NYTimes.com

Science

COLLECTIONS>FAMILY HISTORY
Q & A; Head and Hand Tremors
By C. CLAIBORNE RAY
Published: July 22, 2003
SIGN IN TO E-MAIL
PRINT

Q. Why did Katharine Hepburn's head shake?

A. Katharine Hepburn's ailment, recently discussed on television by her niece Katharine Houghton, was not Parkinson's disease, but a progressive yet treatable neurological disorder called essential tremor. Ms. Hepburn's was referred to as familial tremor, the inherited form. Each child of a parent with the disease has a 50 percent chance of inheriting a gene that causes it. In other cases, there is no family history.

The disorder, which varies in location and severity, used to be called palsy. The International Essential Tremor Foundation, which offers information and helps search for a cure, says the disease stems from abnormal communication among areas of the brain, including the cerebellum, thalamus and brain stem. The group estimates that 10 million people in the United States and 200 million people worldwide have some form of the problem, often undiagnosed.

Many do not seek treatment because they fear Parkinson's or think tremors are part of aging. Shaking, usually starting with the hands, can begin at any age but is more common in older people; tremors starting with the head are more common in women."


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Heard about a former British Marine that was in the Kenya Mall. He went back in and out saving over 100 lives. He was an armed hero...wondering if there was a Starbucks in that mall and the CEO was having coffee in there. Would he let the marine save him or take his chances that the really bad guys would abide by Starbucks policy and not bring their weapons in? I'm leaving with the Marine!!! Kudos to that brave hero.


I heard about that also. What a brave man.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> So funny! Do you think they did that on purpose?


Its not an "English" is our first language shop - so no. I think not intentional. Still funny though how translated English doesn't always work out so well. I've seen this often in my travels.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbzqgqIHb78&feature=youtu.be
> 
> triple dog dare you


Oh how I like Judge Jeanine. She is so no nonsense and has a way of digging through all the BS.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Still have the earache so in bed again--tired of the trolls taking up too many pages. Back to bed.


Janeway,
Get better, please. Are you seeing someone?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh how I like Judge Jeanine. She is so no nonsense and has a way of digging through all the BS.


 :-D


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Still have the earache so in bed again--tired of the trolls taking up too many pages. Back to bed.


Get well lady so sorry you are sick.Praying for you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well at least now we know who would think of supporting him. (Cruz)



bonbf3 said:


> I agree.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh. Thanks. Do you think they may change their minds if someone they care about needs treatment for a fatal disease?



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm guessing it has to do with stem cell research. The Michael J. Fox collects donations for that with the hope that it may one day provide a cure for Parkinson's and the like.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Someone needs a manicure, or at least some good hand cream.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Here is a sign from a craft shop: I'll say no more! :lol:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Oh. Thanks. Do you think they may change their minds if someone they care about needs treatment for a fatal disease?


I can only speak for myself, but my answer is no if the stems cells came from an aborted child.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I can only speak for myself, but my answer is no if the stems cells came from an aborted child.


I feel the same way, Lovethelake.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I can only speak for myself, but my answer is no if the stems cells came from an aborted child.


you are so right. what a awful thing.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I can only speak for myself, but my answer is no if the stems cells came from an aborted child.


I agree. Dh has been on treatment for Hepc . We would have not wanted a treatment that was from an aborted baby.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here is a sign from a craft shop: I'll say no more! :lol:


Oh I love it . touchy touchy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Someone needs a manicure, or at least some good hand cream.


Nice Ahriman. I'll be sure to warn the shop owner of your ignorance and prejudices because he'd treat you as politely as he treats all people that enter his shop.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nice Ahriman. I'll be sure to warn the shop owner of your ignorance and prejudices because he'd treat you as politely as he treats all people that enter his shop.


Another example of cruel profiling. So easy to cast judge someone by only a picture of his hands.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm amazed. How is it 'cruel profiling' to notice painfully red fingers and cuticles?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But I would expect relief from infection.



joeysomma said:


> They are working hands.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=wrRTau5jusU

Miss you RR


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm amazed. How is it 'cruel profiling' to notice painfully red fingers and cuticles?


Possibly LTL was angry because she thought that that was Chef's photo and Cherf's hand. Neither is true, of course--that snap's posted all over the Internet.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Possibly LTL thinks that that is Chef's photo and Cherf's hand. It isn't, of course--that snap's posted all over the Internet.


Why do you keep calling her Cherf . As Cherf and I are on facebook we post each other all the time and she believes me does not want to come back on here. After the wreath for soliders grave that got four dismiss from KP and Cherf and LOL did nothing wrong except to ask that site would not be made poltic and reported Ingreid and Lily for it. Cherf was fed up as she feels it was not fair to either her or LOL to be band.. 
Also who every said they saw her picture think not as she has not posted her picture on face book. 
Can say though we have fun on face book. She is as funny and sweet as I am. Yes I am bragging.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Possibly LTL was angry because she thought that that was Chef's photo and Cherf's hand. Neither is true, of course--that snap's posted all over the Internet.


No I am not angry, please stop projecting your emotions onto others.

The hand appeared to me to be that of a hard working man that loves his merchandise. There was no sign of leprosy or any other flesh eating disease on his hands for you to condemn. Just another example of arrogance


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Forgot to add Cheryl is not her name either. Will not tellyou her real name as then you would go looking for her too. Just beleive me. Cherf is no longer on KP. She does not want anything to do with KP and I mean does not want too.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Possibly LTL was angry because she thought that that was Chef's photo and Cherf's hand. Neither is true, of course--that snap's posted all over the Internet.


Susan don't you have anything to add to a conversation but hate and criticiam? crit·i·cism
ˈkritəˌsizəm/
noun
noun: criticism; plural noun: criticisms

1.
the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes.
"he received a lot of criticism"
synonyms:	censure, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, fault-finding, attack, broadside, stricture, recrimination; More
informalflak, bad press, panning, put down, knock, slam, brickbats, potshot(s);
formalexcoriation
"she was stung by his criticism"
2.
the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work.
"alternative methods of criticism supported by well-developed literary theories"
synonyms:	evaluation, assessment, appraisal, analysis, judgment; More
commentary, interpretation, explanation, explication, elucidation
"literary criticism"
the scholarly investigation of literary or historical texts to determine their origin or intended form.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> The hand appeared to me to be that of a hard working man that loves his merchandise.


Uh-huh--and that's why you and others flew off the handle when someone suggested the hand needed a manicure.


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Thank you! I sent on to friends. Made this last night and it was delish.


Country Bumpkins said:


> Another Fudge Brownie Pie
> ♛♛ Fudge Brownie Pie♛♛
> 
> 3/4 cup flour
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

How is every one doing today. I am being lazy just plain lazy.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> Thank you! I sent on to friends. Made this last night and it was delish.


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Why do you keep calling her Cherf . As Cherf and I are on facebook we post each other all the time and she believes me does not want to come back on here. After the wreath for soliders grave that got four dismiss from KP and Cherf and LOL did nothing wrong except to ask that site would not be made poltic and reported Ingreid and Lily for it. Cherf was fed up as she feels it was not fair to either her or LOL to be band..
> Also who every said they saw her picture think not as she has not posted her picture on face book.
> Can say though we have fun on face book. She is as funny and sweet as I am. Yes I am bragging.


Things like this make me wonder if Admin is one of our trolls.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm amazed. How is it 'cruel profiling' to notice painfully red fingers and cuticles?


It's just rude to comment on people's features - you don't know the person's circumstances and the redness was minimal. My first thought is that you made the comment only to insult KPG - just as you and some of your friends have made other personal comments about her without ever having seen or met her. You and your friends delight in mocking and caricature that would have children chastised if they did the same thing to others. You use your dislike to justify rude and obnoxious behaviour.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Things like this make me wonder if Admin is one of our trolls.


Interesting theory.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Possibly LTL was angry because she thought that that was Chef's photo and Cherf's hand. Neither is true, of course--that snap's posted all over the Internet.


more likely that dame made the original rude remark because she believed it to be KPG's hand - never lose an opportunity to be rude and obnoxious


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> more likely that dame made the original rude remark because she believed it to be KPG's hand - never lose an opportunity to be rude and obnoxious


...and the others flew to the hand's defense because they believed exactly the same thing. A case of mistaken identity (which of course a certain party did nothing to clear up)--no need for all the fire and brimstone.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Should have added it is not the name you may think she has. Also not name on face book. I know because there are several people on there with my name so changed it. Plus one can not get into sites with out friended.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Should have added it is not the name you may think she is. Also not name on face book. I know because there are several people on there with my name so changed it. Plus one can not get into sites with out friended.


Can only speak for myself, of course, but I'm not interested in tracking down anyone's true identity...for me the amount of interaction that goes on on this site is more than enough.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

An interesting new post on cyber bullying showed up on KP today. Susan and Jelun2 actually had the nerve to jump in. I let the others know who and what they were dealing with.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> An interesting new post on cyber bullying showed up on KP today. Susan and Jelun2 actually had the nerve to jump in. I let the others know who and what they were dealing with.


Yep--a perfect example of cyber-bullying there, KC. Your words can stand as Exhibit A.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> How is every one doing today. I am being lazy just plain lazy.


Just finished helping my husband pick up his clippings from a lot of bushes. Am exhausted.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Just finished helping my husband pick up his clippings from a lot of bushes. Am exhausted.


I would be, too. I just put sheets on the bed, and I'm taking a coffee break! With all you did, you may need a nap!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I would be, too. I just put sheets on the bed, and I'm taking a coffee break! With all you did, you may need a nap!!


I think I do!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Enjoy your coffee CB and hope you have a good day. Good news about the hunter, saved physically and spirtually


Good news!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I can't sing either. Only joyful noise.


Same here. And of course I love to sing. One Sunday our priest asked us to sing more. For those who can't sing, he said, "Remember - God gave you that voice. Give it right back to Him!"

The rafters rocked that day!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

What happened to that poor creature! (i mean the goat or sheep with a pierced ear)


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We'll call our tour "The Trinity of Light!"


Okay - are you all speaking in code, or have I just missed too many posts? :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It was so yummy. It is usually crowded but we just got in at the right time. The wooden beams were so homey with the wood floors. Someone had carved a large wooden spoon and it was hanging on one wall. That was the name of the place. The Wooden Spoon. My dd got my gs a coconut pie for his birthday. The crust melted in your mouth. All sandwiches were made out of homemade bread.


Yum! It sounds like a great trip!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you are so right . I stood in line to vote and three ladies in front of me where talking. I couldn't beleive what I heard from one of them. She ask which one are we voting for I forgot. I was dumb founded.


When I voted in a primary, there weren't many people there. On the way out, I struck up a conversation with one of the workers - very nice lady. This is a pretty conservative area, so thank goodness I didn't say anything political - she turns out to be related to George Stephanopoulos! She said there are a lot of politicians in the family and that she's "seen it all." She wasn't saying it was good, either. She does think George is sweet, though. I was glad I hadn't said anything to offend her.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep--a perfect example of cyber-bullying there, KC. Your words can stand as Exhibit A.


Susan I just have to laugh every time I read crazy ladies posts. She and KPG are the queens of bullying and obnoxious nasty behavior and is typical of all bullies they can dish it out to everyone else but start crying and complaining to anyone who dares to speak up and challenge any of their rude behavior. I think all the decent folks on the threads are so afraid of being attacked by those two and lovethelake they keep quiet and just let them carry on as they do so they don't get kicked or punched in the nose. I remember kids like that in grade school but most people grow up and leave all that behind. Even on the new garden of friendship thread I noticed how everyone can get along and KPG shows up and starts making nasty comments. She can't have a nice conversation because then she isn't the center of attention and she can't stand it. I try to have empathy for her but she is so darn mean I think she takes great pleasure in hurting people. There is a big difference between teasing someone and being out right cruel and she, knit crazy and lovethelake don't even know where the boundaries are.  They keep crossing the line.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Another example of cruel profiling. So easy to cast judge someone by only a picture of his hands.


How is that cruel profiling. All she said was the person could use some hand cream. That is a true statement. Who did she hurt by saying it, you? You make the most absurd comments and observations about such simple statements. You and KPG did some cruel profiling when you mentioned that English was not the person's first language and laughed at the person's misuse of the words on the sign. You were the two making cheap cruel remarks about someone not damemary. I am sure you also think it is OK when KPG gives the ladies on the right the names of demons or mythological characters but God forbid anyone ever say anything back to the two of you, the Queens of Mean, the biggest and most stupid bullies on KP.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And a manicure or hand cream is the solution?


What would you suggest joey? If someone had such red chapped hands I would think k a nice lotion would be very helpful and pain relieving. Must you find fault with everything someone you don't like says? You really have a problem. You have changed and it isn't for the better. I think hanging out with KPG, knit crazy and lovethelake is taking it's toll on you. You are much better, smarter and kinder than they are or at least you used to be.
KPG and lovethelake made fun of this person's misuse of the English language. Do you find that amusing or unkind?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh dear some cranky senior didn't get her nap today. I know, maybe she was working on her checkbook again


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan I just have to laugh every time I read crazy ladies posts. She and KPG are the queens of bullying and obnoxious nasty behavior and is typical of all bullies they can dish it out to everyone else but start crying and complaining to anyone who dares to speak up and challenge any of their rude behavior. I think all the decent folks on the threads are so afraid of being attacked by those two and lovethelake they keep quiet and just let them carry on as they do so they don't get kicked or punched in the nose. I remember kids like that in grade school but most people grow up and leave all that behind. Even on the new garden of friendship thread I noticed how everyone can get along and KPG shows up and starts making nasty comments. She can't have a nice conversation because then she isn't the center of attention and she can't stand it. I try to have empathy for her but she is so darn mean I think she takes great pleasure in hurting people. There is a big difference between teasing someone and being out right cruel and she, knit crazy and lovethelake don't even know where the boundaries are. They keep crossing the line.


I couldn't agree with you more, Cheeky. In the past twenty-four hours the subjects discussed in the threads--

the possibility that the Hand AKA Cherf AKA KPG needs a manicure

KC's iron stance against cyber-bullying ("Susan and Jelun2 actually had the nerve to jump in. I let the others know who and what they were dealing with." )

a multi-page battle over whether all sewing machines need to be oiled

--have been over the moon. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I simply wouldn't believe it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, Cheeky. In the past twenty-four hours the subjects discussed in the threads--
> 
> the possibility that the Hand AKA Cherf AKA KPG needs a manicure
> 
> ...


Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


yes that would make sense.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


From your lips to God's ears


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> From your lips to God's ears


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A good manicure and Neosporin would be my suggestion. It looks sore.



joeysomma said:


> And a manicure or hand cream is the solution?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're not dim.



theyarnlady said:


> Why do you keep calling her Cherf . As Cherf and I are on facebook we post each other all the time and she believes me does not want to come back on here. After the wreath for soliders grave that got four dismiss from KP and Cherf and LOL did nothing wrong except to ask that site would not be made poltic and reported Ingreid and Lily for it. Cherf was fed up as she feels it was not fair to either her or LOL to be band..
> Also who every said they saw her picture think not as she has not posted her picture on face book.
> Can say though we have fun on face book. She is as funny and sweet as I am. Yes I am bragging.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And You dear are the only one to mention leprosy or any other flesh eating disease. Just another example of ignorance.



lovethelake said:


> No I am not angry, please stop projecting your emotions onto others.
> 
> The hand appeared to me to be that of a hard working man that loves his merchandise. There was no sign of leprosy or any other flesh eating disease on his hands for you to condemn. Just another example of arrogance


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then why are you, her great friend, spending so much time here?

Ravelry and Etsy are both commonly used by knitters. Information is posted there.



theyarnlady said:


> Forgot to add Cheryl is not her name either. Will not tellyou her real name as then you would go looking for her too. Just beleive me. Cherf is no longer on KP. She does not want anything to do with KP and I mean does not want too.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

not ignorant

observant

Hope if it was Obamacare would cover it before he had to meet his $5000 deductible.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you a double personality?



Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan don't you have anything to add to a conversation but hate and criticiam? crit·i·cism
> ˈkritəˌsizəm/
> noun
> noun: criticism; plural noun: criticisms
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

why 

who 

when 

didn't know that

and really who cares.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> We're not dim.


well turn a lamp on. :idea: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Are you a double personality?


Yes I have Jesus in me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They have certainly experienced bullying behavior. Many of us are experts on the subject. One of us was recently told "you must die." We all remember that quite well. Shocking how low bullies will go here.



Knit crazy said:


> An interesting new post on cyber bullying showed up on KP today. Susan and Jelun2 actually had the nerve to jump in. I let the others know who and what they were dealing with.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My head's spinning. Where do they get this stuff? Shouldn't they go start a blog somewhere else? Used to work with Ravelry, but not recently.



susanmos2000 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, Cheeky. In the past twenty-four hours the subjects discussed in the threads--
> 
> the possibility that the Hand AKA Cherf AKA KPG needs a manicure
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> They have certainly experienced bullying behavior. Many of us are experts on the subject. One of us was recently told "you must die." We all remember that quite well. Shocking how low bullies will go here.


I still can't understand why you women have a hard time reading what was wrote and meant by it. she never said you must die

She said as an answer to Hucks question how do you know heaven or hell.

Wrote die in other words you can only know heaven or hell you must first die. 
Plus you all said you were going to report her and since Adm did not see anything wrong with it give it up. 
And that is not cyber bullling believe me I know.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You just follow us.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But your friends have posted everywhere, even Point Of View Liberal, so I decided to follow your example.

God bless.



theyarnlady said:


> yes that would make sense.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm laughing hysterically. Thanks Mrs. Malaprop.



theyarnlady said:


> well turn a lamp on. :idea: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> My first slow cooker arrived today - now I just need to decide what to make first.


Have you cooked in your crock pot again ? Besides chili? I put some ribs in this morning. Very tender.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same lame excuses. No one believes a word of it.



theyarnlady said:


> I still can't understand why you women have a hard time reading what was wrote and meant by it. she never said you must die
> 
> She said as an answer to Hucks question how do you know heaven or hell.
> 
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> You just follow us.


I have never followed you. I don't go to your threads. You are the one following . It is not me. Go and see if I have post on them. I don't even read them. The 3 I post on are all started by my friends. You are telling lies on me.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> What happened to that poor creature! (i mean the goat or sheep with a pierced ear)


it's just an ear tag Bonnie; farmers use them to identify their animals


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

GOD'S ACCURACY - THE FACT

This is awesome! How Great is our God!!!
Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we even THINK about it???

God's accuracy may even be observed in the hatching of eggs. . .
For example:
-The eggs of the potato bug hatch in 7 days;
-Those of the canary in 14 days;
-Those of the barnyard hen in 21 days;
-The eggs of ducks and geese hatch in 28 days;
-Those of the mallard in 35 days;
-The eggs of the parrot and the ostrich hatch in 42 days.(Notice, they are all divisible by seven, the number of days in a week!)

God's wisdom is seen in the making of an elephant. The four legs of this great beast all bend forward in the same direction. No other quadruped is so made. God planned that this animal would have a huge body, too large to live on two legs. For this reason He gave it four fulcrums so that it can rise from the ground easily.

The horse rises from the ground on its two front legs first.

A cow rises from the ground with its two hind legs first.

How wise the Lord is in all His works of creation!

God's wisdom is revealed in His arrangement of sections and segments, as well as in the number of grains.
-Each watermelon has an even number of stripes on the rind.
-Each orange has an even number of segments.
-Each ear of corn has an even number of rows.
-Each stalk of wheat has an even number of grains.
-Every bunch of bananas has on its lowest row an even number of bananas, and each row decreases by one, so that one row has an even number and the next row an odd number.
-The waves of the sea roll in on shore twenty-six to the minute in all kinds of weather.
-All grains are found in even numbers on the stalks, AND the Lord specified thirty-fold, sixty-fold, and a hundred-fold all even numbers.

God has caused the flowers to blossom at certain specified times during the day. Linnaeus, the great botanist, once said that if he had a conservatory containing the right kind of soil, moisture and temperature, he could tell the time of day or night by the flowers that were open and those that were closed!

The lives of each of you may be ordered by the Lord in a beautiful way for His glory, If you will only entrust Him with your life.
If you try to regulate your own life, it will only be a mess and a failure.
Only the One Who made the brain and the heart can successfully guide them to a profitable end.

The Bible When you carry "the Bible", Satan has a headache, when you open it, he collapses, when he sees you reading it, he loses his strength, AND when you stand on the Word of God, Satan can't hurt you!

And did you also know...

When you are about to forward this email to others, the devil will probably try to discourage you, but do it anyway.

"Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

I HOPE YOU FIND THIS AS FASCINATING AS I DID.
May God Bless You In Ways You Never Even Dreamed.Has this been put on before?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> The Righter times( if you can't get it right you have it wrong.
> 
> News Flash: No I have already told you I am not flashing.
> 
> ...


here we are with the photos for the latest Righter Village News, sorry but better late than never -


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> here we are with the photos for the latest Righter Village News, sorry but better late than never -


Oh good photos WCK right on What would the righter news do with out you?? giggles here.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LOLOOLLO


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Go up to the left hand side of the page. At the top. It says watch or unwatch. Maybe...


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> not ignorant
> 
> observant
> 
> Hope if it was Obamacare would cover it before he had to meet his $5000 deductible.


I laughed until I realized you weren't joking.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> well turn a lamp on. :idea: :XD: :XD:


One says they're dim; one says they're wits. Put it all together - you get dimwits! Just a joke - I know you're all really smart (except when it comes to politics), but it really is funny, isn't it? I have a way with words.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes I have Jesus in me.


Oh - that was beautiful, CB.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> They have certainly experienced bullying behavior. Many of us are experts on the subject. One of us was recently told "you must die." We all remember that quite well. Shocking how low bullies will go here.


Ladies, I must say that "you must die" is actually nothing more than a fact. We all must die. And will. No matter how much tofu we eat and fish oil we take.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes I have Jesus in me.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Ladies, I must say that "you must die" is actually nothing more than a fact. We all must die. And will. No matter how much tofu we eat and fish oil we take.


yucky don't like either one.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I still can't understand why you women have a hard time reading what was wrote and meant by it. she never said you must die
> 
> She said as an answer to Hucks question how do you know heaven or hell.
> 
> ...


I think that anyone who read the whole post knew it wasn't a threat but they gave themselves a few pages about it. They haven't had much to say to each other on their own threads lately so they must be bored and come here to stir the pot


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yucky don't like either one.


Neither do I. Well, to be honest, I've never tried fish oil, and the tofu was so spicy-hot I almost choked to death!! Ohh - just remembered, I used to take a cod liver oil pill every day as a child. Pretty little round ball - amber - with fish oil inside it. In fact, fish LIVER oil - oh gross!! I didn't even know fish had livers.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Have you cooked in your crock pot again ? Besides chili? I put some ribs in this morning. Very tender.


The soup was really good but it was a big batch so I put some in the freezer for another rainy day. I was thinking of making ribs on Sun. I've got pork back ribs. What kind did you make?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Neither do I. Well, to be honest, I've never tried fish oil, and the tofu was so spicy-hot I almost choked to death!!


Why was tofu spicy? You can get it plain.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I think that anyone who read the whole post knew it wasn't a threat but they gave themselves a few pages about it. They haven't had much to say to each other on their own threads lately so they must be bored and come here to stir the pot


It does look that way doesn't it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why was tofu spicy? You can get it plain.


My daughter made it. She told me it was "a little spicy." Later she and her sister just cracked up when she said she "almost killed mom!" I just love those girls. (She didn't know I was THAT sensitive to spicy. All my kids love it.)

I must add - it looked delicious with all that red parika-looking stuff on it.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

damemary said:


> Same lame excuses. No one believes a word of it.


Everyone with the ability to read and reason believes it; only those with a bone to pick keep trying to make an issue where it doesn't exist


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I myself like to pick at chicken bones.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I myself like to pick at chicken bones.


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> GOD'S ACCURACY - THE FACT
> 
> This is awesome! How Great is our God!!!
> Our Creator and Redeemer . . . and do we even THINK about it???
> ...


Yes - this is fascinating!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> My head's spinning. Where do they get this stuff? Shouldn't they go start a blog somewhere else? Used to work with Ravelry, but not recently.


Dame here is some good words for you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> The soup was really good but it was a big batch so I put some in the freezer for another rainy day. I was thinking of making ribs on Sun. I've got pork back ribs. What kind did you make?


Pork. I seasoned it with Cajun seasoning on top and bottom. Then layered sauce. Had Baby Ray's. Put it on high for about 5 hrs. I took it out and put sauce on it again . Turned on oven to 400 for 10 minutes to just glaze it. Put my beans in the crock pot with left over juice while ribs were in oven.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

More great reporting by our great reporter! Pix are an excellent addition to the news. Now be good, or you're going to be exposed!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - this is fascinating!


I know you had posted it before another lady on Kp posted it today on topics good to see it go around on KP opens many eyes to the truth.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I myself like to pick at chicken bones.


This fits:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Dame here is some good words for you.


Very appropriate, Jane!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> One says they're dim; one says they're wits. Put it all together - you get dimwits! Just a joke - I know you're all really smart (except when it comes to politics), but it really is funny, isn't it? I have a way with words.


  yes you do :lol:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> More great reporting by our great reporter! Pix are an excellent addition to the news. Now be good, or you're going to be exposed!


I don't care what any one thinks I do not expose, nor have I ever been over exposed. May have thought about it. But why would I want to be expose to being exposed.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This fits:


My dh just said Amen!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Neither do I. Well, to be honest, I've never tried fish oil, and the tofu was so spicy-hot I almost choked to death!! Ohh - just remembered, I used to take a cod liver oil pill every day as a child. Pretty little round ball - amber - with fish oil inside it. In fact, fish LIVER oil - oh gross!! I didn't even know fish had livers.


I remember those little pills too. We had to take 1 every day during the winter when we were kids. Lucky they were small and could be swallowed easily - I made the mistake of biting it once and it was gross


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Why are there girdles being advertized on my page? Is that a hint? I just ate half a honey bun.:{


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

This is for those who must adjust a recipe somehow--hope this helps.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I remember those little pills too. We had to take 1 every day during the winter when we were kids. Lucky they were small and could be swallowed easily - I made the mistake of biting it once and it was gross


Cod liver pills?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nighty, night.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This fits:


Oh oh Janey that is a good one you always make me laugh with the ones you find.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I myself like to pick at chicken bones.


our dog used to chew on rawhide bones for hours - but that was productive


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Cod liver pills?


every spring mom would make us kids drink cod liver oil, just the thought make me gage.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Pork. I seasoned it with Cajun seasoning on top and bottom. Then layered sauce. Had Baby Ray's. Put it on high for about 5 hrs. I took it out and put sauce on it again . Turned on oven to 400 for 10 minutes to just glaze it. Put my beans in the crock pot with left over juice while ribs were in oven.


yummy, can hardly wait til Sun. We don't have Baby Ray's but Diana Sauce is really good


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This is for those who must adjust a recipe somehow--hope this helps.


Thanks Janie. I need to copy that. Try not to make too many cookies because I will eat them all.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why are there girdles being advertized on my page? Is that a hint? I just ate half a honey bun.:{


It may not be meant for just you. I have been on a sea food diet all year. :roll:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lets see my favorite subjects food and more food.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Janeway said:


> This fits:


that's funny Jane. One of our cats liked to walk along the edge of the tub when I took a bubble bath. She would swipe at the bubbles until 1 day she leaned in too far and fell in. She was not a happy girl!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> yummy, can hardly wait til Sun. We don't have Baby Ray's but Diana Sauce is really good


I like Kansas City sauce better. I just had Sweet Baby Ray's in the fridge. Use your favorite sauce.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> It may not be meant for just you. I have been on a sea food diet all year. :roll:


Now big ugly age spots are on. One day it was ugly toenails. Fungus toenails. That will kill your appetite.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why are there girdles being advertized on my page? Is that a hint? I just ate half a honey bun.:{


my page is advertising Coffee Pro and I haven't even commented on coffee today


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Cod liver pills?


yup


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> yup


 :-o


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now big ugly age spots are on. One day it was ugly toenails. Fungus toenails. That will kill your appetite.


Nope not working was just thinking I thinking about the mention of cookies.

Well ladies my north lids are meeting my south lids and vision is getting cross so will say nitie night sleepy tight and pleasant dreams to you heres a wish and a pray that every dream comes true and now tell we met again can't spell the words after that.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Pork. I seasoned it with Cajun seasoning on top and bottom. Then layered sauce. Had Baby Ray's. Put it on high for about 5 hrs. I took it out and put sauce on it again . Turned on oven to 400 for 10 minutes to just glaze it. Put my beans in the crock pot with left over juice while ribs were in oven.


I probably got the same BBQ rib recipe you use here off our KP. I use country style - no bone pork ribs. 1st time I made it I used Sweet Baby Rays. Was to die for! 2nd time used another brand, wasn't nearly as tasty, so 3rd time used SBR's again @ sure 'nuff was again delicious. Therefore, I'd always recommwnd SBR's for our slow cooker ribs. The GKs couldn't eat enough of 'em. I'd never heard of nor used SBR's before our ribs, but now I always have at least 1 bottle in my pantry - it's becomes a staple in our home.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I probably got the same BBQ rib recipe you use here off our KP. I use country style - no bone pork ribs. 1st time I made it I used Sweet Baby Rays. Was to die for! 2nd time used another brand, wasn't nearly as tasty, so 3rd time used SBR's again @ sure 'nuff was again delicious. Therefore, I'd always recommwnd SBR's for our slow cooker ribs. The GKs couldn't eat enough of 'em. I'd never heard of nor used SBR's before our ribs, but now I always have at least 1 bottle in my pantry - it's becomes a staple in our home.


Never heard of SBR's. I used to make my own sauce but haven't in awhile.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Janeway said:


> This is for those who must adjust a recipe somehow--hope this helps.


Janie: Oh my gosh! Some things are simply too weird! You post your calculations on adjusting recipe amounts....&......just today my favorite restaurant owner emailed me a recipe for my favorite dessert I'd eaten at his wonderful restaurant for over 25 years. He no longer makes it there & was good enough to send me the recipe so I can make it here at home. He's such a dear man....well.....his recipe is for 20 servings, so I'll use your adjustments to downsize. Honestly Janie, I was in wonderment when I saw your adjustment post. Guess timing is everything, ya' suppose?


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Never heard of SBR's. I used to make my own sauce but haven't in awhile.


You can buy SBR's at Kroger & Ingles. Sure other stores do also, but those 2 carry it for sure.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> You can buy SBR's at Kroger & Ingles. Sure other stores do also, but those 2 carry it for sure.


Ok. Don't have either one. But next time I see a Kroger I will try to remember that.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't care what any one thinks I do not expose, nor have I ever been over exposed. May have thought about it. But why would I want to be expose to being exposed.


Yes, but your indepth reporting may expose others! :shock: So - they should mind their manners.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I remember those little pills too. We had to take 1 every day during the winter when we were kids. Lucky they were small and could be swallowed easily - I made the mistake of biting it once and it was gross


Aaaaaach!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why are there girdles being advertized on my page? Is that a hint? I just ate half a honey bun.:{


Girdles? Do they still make them? I need one. Bought one once - just held it up to see if it would fit. When I got home, I could squeeze one leg in it - if I braced myself against the door!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> This is for those who must adjust a recipe somehow--hope this helps.


Very helpful - thanks, Jane!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Cod liver pills?


Yes. Did you take them, too?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

So cute! Sleep well, Janeway.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes. Did you take them, too?


Not growing up but take the fish oil now when I remember. I know my parents used to talk about having to take a dose of cod liver oil in Spring. I never understood it.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Girdles? Do they still make them? I need one. Bought one once - just held it up to see if it would fit. When I got home, I could squeeze one leg in it - if I braced myself against the door!


That's quite the image Bonnie :lol: - might make it into the next Righter Village News. Remember garter belts and nylon stockings? What a blessing when pantyhose was developed


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Not growing up but take the fish oil now when I remember. I know my parents used to talk about having to take a dose of cod liver oil in Spring. I never understood it.


I was too young - clueless. I did what I was told.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That's quite the image Bonnie :lol: - might make it into the next Righter Village News. Remember garter belts and nylon stockings? What a blessing when pantyhose was developed


Oh, I know. Those garter belts were - a crazy design! I remember if I made mine tight enough to keep the stockings from wrinkling, it pulled down and looked like some kind of bunjee cord!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Past midnight in GA - I'm going to bed with visions of girdles and garter belts dancing in my head. The laughter may keep me awake! What we went through to be beautiful!

Goodnight, ladies.


----------



## Becky B (Sep 22, 2013)

If this were Facebook I'd post a like.
I too grew up with guns in the house.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Becky B said:


> If this were Facebook I'd post a like.
> I too grew up with guns in the house.


Love your kitties Becky!


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Not growing up but take the fish oil now when I remember. I know my parents used to talk about having to take a dose of cod liver oil in Spring. I never understood it.


It was really nasty tasting, but I never got pills, just a tablespoon full. I think that I brought it back up. Then, my mother quit pushing it on me and gave me a vitamin pill. I don't take liquid medicine even today because I remember that stuff. I can choke down really big pills though with no problem.

Does anyone remember when doctors made house calls? I do.


----------



## Becky B (Sep 22, 2013)

The whole family is cat oriented. Both sons have cats as well. We do like dogs but I'm horribly allergic and love mid to large breeds. And we travel a bit as well.
Is your kitty all black?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> It was really nasty tasting, but I never got pills, just a tablespoon full. I think that I brought it back up. Then, my mother quit pushing it on me and gave me a vitamin pill. I don't take liquid medicine even today because I remember that stuff. I can choke down really big pills though with no problem.
> 
> Does anyone remember when doctors made house calls? I do.


No, not for me, but we do have a vet that make house calls


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh, I know. Those garter belts were - a crazy design! I remember if I made mine tight enough to keep the stockings from wrinkling, it pulled down and looked like some kind of bunjee cord!


 LOL You brought back memories. Then if you wore a girdle your skirt was so short when you sat down the legs of the girdle would show. Can't win on that one. Why did it take so long to invent panty hose???


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Becky B said:


> The whole family is cat oriented. Both sons have cats as well. We do like dogs but I'm horribly allergic and love mid to large breeds. And we travel a bit as well.
> Is your kitty all black?


Loved our family dog when I was growing up but have only had cats for the last 20+years. He was all black, but as he got older he got some grey mixed in there and most of his whiskers turned white. He had a wonderful personality and was with us for 18 years before he died a couple of years ago.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> It was really nasty tasting, but I never got pills, just a tablespoon full. I think that I brought it back up. Then, my mother quit pushing it on me and gave me a vitamin pill. I don't take liquid medicine even today because I remember that stuff. I can choke down really big pills though with no problem.
> 
> Does anyone remember when doctors made house calls? I do.


Yes I do. My brother had the measles 2 times and the chicken pox twice. Dr Rhine made the calls to our house.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh, I know. Those garter belts were - a crazy design! I remember if I made mine tight enough to keep the stockings from wrinkling, it pulled down and looked like some kind of bunjee cord!


Your comparison of garter belts to bungee cords made me just about spit my coffee all over my iPad. You explained wearing one perfectly!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> This fits:


Glad to 'hear' you are doing better with you're ear. 

A fellow KPer told me something I created is a tribute to Native Americans, so wanted to see what you think. (that wasn't the intent - but if it does represent - I'm happy!)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-203379-2.html#4027765


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, Cheeky. In the past twenty-four hours the subjects discussed in the threads--
> 
> the possibility that the Hand AKA Cherf AKA KPG needs a manicure
> 
> ...


 ... and guess who gave the tirades of stupidity on every single subject you listed? A Liberal.

1) I posted a picture of humor - a Lib insulted it and probably didn't get it
2) Libs ranted on bullying to gain support and failed because they are the ones doing the bullying
3) Huck posted project photos, I did as well. Then Huck informed me that I didn't know how to properly maintain my sewing machines or sew. Oh, ya, and damemary, too (the coward who won't post any of her project pics but is happy to insult mine.)

You want intelligence? Shut the Liberals up = common denominator.

Stay in and post amongst your Liberal selves in your own Liberal threads since you think you're all so smart.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Glad to 'hear' you are doing better with your ear.
> 
> A fellow KPer told me something I created is a tribute to Native Americans, so wanted to see what you think. (that wasn't the intent - but if it does represent - I'm happy!)
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-203379-2.html#4027765


sorry Janeway, should have corrected my spelling ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> Janie: Oh my gosh! Some things are simply too weird! You post your calculations on adjusting recipe amounts....&......just today my favorite restaurant owner emailed me a recipe for my favorite dessert I'd eaten at his wonderful restaurant for over 25 years. He no longer makes it there & was good enough to send me the recipe so I can make it here at home. He's such a dear man....well.....his recipe is for 20 servings, so I'll use your adjustments to downsize. Honestly Janie, I was in wonderment when I saw your adjustment post. Guess timing is everything, ya' suppose?


Glad it will help as I have pictures of a lot of things that are of interest to me so I'm glad I posted this for all to use. Hope it helps. I also have another one on my ref. for cutting a recipe in half & one to double so if you are interested as I would have to type it in. Hugs.

This Ipad is going crazy this AM as I type but it is writing wierd things.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Glad to 'hear' you are doing better with you're ear.
> 
> A fellow KPer told me something I created is a tribute to Native Americans, so wanted to see what you think. (that wasn't the intent - but if it does represent - I'm happy!)
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-203379-2.html#4027765


Yes, I looked & am impressed with your talent in knitting & sewing, wow I loved them all!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> It was really nasty tasting, but I never got pills, just a tablespoon full. I think that I brought it back up. Then, my mother quit pushing it on me and gave me a vitamin pill. I don't take liquid medicine even today because I remember that stuff. I can choke down really big pills though with no problem.
> 
> Does anyone remember when doctors made house calls? I do.


I do, too.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Glad it will help as I have pictures of a lot of things that are of interest to me so I'm glad I posted this for all to use. Hope it helps. I also have another one on my ref. for cutting a recipe in half & one to double so if you are interested as I would have to type it in. Hugs.
> 
> This Ipad is going crazy this AM as I type but it is writing wierd things.


<<<<whispering to my dear friend, it is you not the ipad
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:>>>>>>


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Your comparison of garter belts to bungee cords made me just about spit my coffee all over my iPad. You explained wearing one perfectly!


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> sorry Janeway, should have corrected my spelling ...


It is OK as this Ipad is going crazy this morning as it puts in words that I do not want so this ISO7 is crazy. SIL said to download it so I did--but?

My grammar & spelling has gone on vacation these days.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I had a bad night sleeping and at 7:45 the phone starts ringing. Of course my first thought is something happen to my Daddd.Jump out of bed ran to the electical tree trimmer. Seem dear hubby called them about two weeks ago to trim tree over power lines.If we have heavy snow down would come power lines. Well you do not want to know what I would have have said to this poor man. Now have coffee and slightly awake. 
You only got one leg in Bonnie, I got it on and had muffin top above it. Whats the use of having all suck in and coming out the top???


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> It is OK as this Ipad is going crazy this morning as it puts in words that I do not want so this ISO7 is crazy. SIL said to download it so I did--but?
> 
> My grammar & spelling has gone on vacation these days.


welcome to the club, but I have it all the time.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

and your funny to LOL. cute one.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I had a bad night sleeping and at 7:45 the phone starts ringing. Of course my first thought is something happen to my Daddd.Jump out of bed ran to the electical tree trimmer. Seem dear hubby called them about two weeks ago to trim tree over power lines.If we have heavy snow down would come power lines. Well you do not want to know what I would have have said to this poor man. Now have coffee and slightly awake.
> You only got one leg in Bonnie, I got it on and had muffin top above it. Whats the use of having all suck in and coming out the top???


I feel your pain! I don't wear anything tight any more. It would be an offense to anyone with eyes!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I feel your pain! I don't wear anything tight any more. It would be an offense to anyone with eyes!


Now I am spitting my coffee Thumper. Bon you are so much fun.!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes I do. My brother had the measles 2 times and the chicken pox twice. Dr Rhine made the calls to our house.


I avoid posting here because I know you ladies want your own place for yourselves, but I just had to say that I remember when doctors made house calls, and my pediatrician visiting twice when I had measles That was in 1956. I had measles everywhere, even where no measle had ever gone before, or so it seemed. The worst part of it was that I couldn't read, watch TV or spend time in a well-lighted room for fear of eye damage. I was one bored kid for a while.

I remember garter belts, too, because we had a dress code in high school that required us to wear stockings. What a nuisance!! Do any of you remember having to wear your skirts so they came just below the knee, and if a teacher thought your skirt was not the correct length you had to kneel so the tracher could make sure that your skit just skimmed the floor? Another nuisance, and kind of embarrasing, too.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Don't assume anything SS. We don't exclude people


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I avoid posting here because I know you ladies want your own place for yourselves, but I just had to say that I remember when doctors made house calls, and my pediatrician visiting twice when I had measles That was in 1956. I had measles everywhere, even where no measle had ever gone before, or so it seemed. The worst part of it was that I couldn't read, watch TV or spend time in a well-lighted room for fear of eye damage. I was one bored kid for a while.


From my perspective it's not that you post here or that you even disagree. It's the attitude, name calling, and way it's said when you do disagree that is off-putting.

I remember my middle son, when he had measles, had them everywhere also. In his mouth, throat, nasal passages, etc. I've never seen a kid so sick. Sorry you went through that!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I feel your pain! I don't wear anything tight any more. It would be an offense to anyone with eyes!


Reminds me of those 'Walmart Customer' youtube videos. Many of them should adopt your view.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I had a bad night sleeping and at 7:45 the phone starts ringing. Of course my first thought is something happen to my Daddd.Jump out of bed ran to the electical tree trimmer. Seem dear hubby called them about two weeks ago to trim tree over power lines.If we have heavy snow down would come power lines. Well you do not want to know what I would have have said to this poor man. Now have coffee and slightly awake.
> You only got one leg in Bonnie, I got it on and had muffin top above it. Whats the use of having all suck in and coming out the top???


 :lol: muffin-top is a perfect description. Hope you get a little nap in today to make up for your interrupted sleep


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Don't assume anything SS. We don't exclude people


I was just trying to be polite, and make sure you knew I wasn't butting in to say something unpleasant. I don't think you exclude people, but I'm sure you don't eant argumentative and insulting posts, either. By the way, I used to be SeattleSoul, asked Admin to change my username to MaidInBedlam, announced I'd done this on a bunch of topics so it wouldn't seem like I was trying to hid behind a new username, and I would very much appreciate being addressed as MaidInBedlam, or MIB for short.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

When my kids were 8, 10 and 12 we were in a craft show. When I came back my mother told me my 8 yo got into something he was allergic too. I looked at him and he had the chicken pox. She had sent him to school. Next my other 2 got them. When my first one went back to school he was the only one in his class. Everyone had gotten the chicken pox. Then my sister was 22 and had not had them . She got them and she has more hair than any person I have every seen. She got the sores in that big head of long hair . I had to leave my daughter with her while I went to a funeral. It was so funny to see both of them together with all the calamine lotion and the oatmeal in their hair. Looked like a scary movie. lol


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

There was 1 year that my 3 brothers and I cycled thru chicken pox starting a week or so before Christmas and into Jan. That was one very quiet Christmas and New Years. The family pics gave us chuckles afterwards - around the tree with splotches of calamine lotion on our faces - but must of been tough on our parents having all 4 of us sick at the same time


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There was 1 year that my 3 brothers and I cycled thru chicken pox starting a week or so before Christmas and into Jan. That was one very quiet Christmas and New Years. The family pics gave us chuckles afterwards - around the tree with splotches of calamine lotion on our faces - but must of been tough on our parents having all 4 of us sick at the same time


You know it was hard on your parents. What is crazy is that takes 21 days after you are exposed so it is hard to run from them. Now they have shots for it.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> When my kids were 8, 10 and 12 we were in a craft show. When I came back my mother told me my 8 yo got into something he was allergic too. I looked at him and he had the chicken pox. She had sent him to school. Next my other 2 got them. When my first one went back to school he was the only one in his class. Everyone had gotten the chicken pox. Then my sister was 22 and had not had them . She got them and she has more hair than any person I have every seen. She got the sores in that big head of long hair . I had to leave my daughter with her while I went to a funeral. It was so funny to see both of them together with all the calamine lotion and the oatmeal in their hair. Looked like a scary movie. lol


oh - I just posted about our family Christmas with chicken pox. I think most kids don't get chicken pox or measles anymore. The worst thing about chicken pox is that you can get shingles from the same virus years later. I had shingles last year and it was the worst experience ever. Still have some of the scars and if I get over tired or too stressed the pain comes back too


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I came home from hospital and youngest one was three. So happy to see them and he wanted a hug but could not do it so was rubbing his back under his shirt and felt bumps. Yes he had them. Felt so helpless as could not move a lot. But friends help us out and when his daddy got home from work he took over.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now I am spitting my coffee Thumper. Bon you are so much fun.!


At our next event, I propose a coffee-spitting contest - since you and Thumpbunny have been practicing. :-D


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> At our next event, I propose a coffee-spitting contest - since you and Thumpbunny have been practicing. :-D


Yes but don't want it coming out of my nose onto my keyboard. lol


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

glad I don't have cup in front of me right now. (*w*)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> oh - I just posted about our family Christmas with chicken pox. I think most kids don't get chicken pox or measles anymore. The worst thing about chicken pox is that you can get shingles from the same virus years later. I had shingles last year and it was the worst experience ever. Still have some of the scars and if I get over tired or too stressed the pain comes back too


I had shingles, too. I think mine was a mild case, but it hurt like all get-out. I keep wanting to get the shingles shot, but other things come up all the time. I guess I should move it to the top of my priority list - maybe ahead of KP, knitting, and computer. .......................Nah.

Did you get the shot, KC?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I had shingles, too. I think mine was a mild case, but it hurt like all get-out. I keep wanting to get the shingles shot, but other things come up all the time. I guess I should move it to the top of my priority list - maybe ahead of KP, knitting, and computer. .......................Nah.
> 
> Did you get the shot, KC?


I had my shingles shot last month. NP said it was too expensive meaning on MC. Told her I had insurance with clinic she work for. Got the shot. How expensive is it? I did not have to pay for it. Due havae to get flu shot now.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> At our next event, I propose a coffee-spitting contest - since you and Thumpbunny have been practicing. :-D


Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


Oh please don't post my pic on the world wide web. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I had shingles, too. I think mine was a mild case, but it hurt like all get-out. I keep wanting to get the shingles shot, but other things come up all the time. I guess I should move it to the top of my priority list - maybe ahead of KP, knitting, and computer. .......................Nah.
> 
> Did you get the shot, KC?


I've been told that once you've had shingles, the shot won't give you extra protection. The shot is fairly new here and I didn't know about it until after I came down with them last Sept. The cost here is $95 and isn't covered by insurance. The rash was bad, but tolerable. My herbalist friend gave me a wonderful ointment that helped but I did end up with a fair amount of blotchy scars on my chest and back. The pain was indescribable - ended up crying in a fetal position more than once. The rash shouldn't come back but the pain can because the virus still lives in your nerve endings


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I had my shingles shot last month. NP said it was too expensive meaning on MC. Told her I had insurance with clinic she work for. Got the shot. How expensive is it? I did not have to pay for it. Due havae to get flu shot now.


Wonder how many times you can have shingles? I got them and went straight to the dr. Had a very mild case. It first started like a migraine then had the rash on my neck. Only maybe a week.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> At our next event, I propose a coffee-spitting contest - since you and Thumpbunny have been practicing. :-D


We wouldn't want anyone to be feeling inferior to those of us who have had the opportunity to practice!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I had my shingles shot last month. NP said it was too expensive meaning on MC. Told her I had insurance with clinic she work for. Got the shot. How expensive is it? I did not have to pay for it. Due havae to get flu shot now.


I think they cost $200 +. Some insurance pays, and some doesn't. I think mine does.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


Love it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I've been told that once you've had shingles, the shot won't give you extra protection. The shot is fairly new here and I didn't know about it until after I came down with them last Sept. The cost here is $95 and isn't covered by insurance. The rash was bad, but tolerable. My herbalist friend gave me a wonderful ointment that helped but I did end up with a fair amount of blotchy scars on my chest and back. The pain was indescribable - ended up crying in a fetal position more than once. The rash shouldn't come back but the pain can because the virus still lives in your nerve endings


My doctor told me to get it. That was a couple of years ago. Maybe the advice is different now. With medicine, it seems to flip-flop more often than not!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Wonder how many times you can have shingles? I got them and went straight to the dr. Had a very mild case. It first started like a migraine then had the rash on my neck. Only maybe a week.


My info - about two years old - is that you can get it more than once. The worst is that sometimes the pain can linger for months or years. Best to get the shot, I think. Although, KC said she heard if you've had it, the shot doesn't give extra protection. I'm going to have to research the thing again because my info isn't new.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> My doctor told me to get it. That was a couple of years ago. Maybe the advice is different now. With medicine, it seems to flip-flop more often than not!


I have been strongly advised by 2 physician friends to get it. I need to do that, but have been delaying for some reason. Must do it soon. It is a terrible thing.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

I got the shot several years ago. My insurance company paid the cost of the shot, all 400 plus they were billed. I knew they would as it was in my benefits package they would, but I would have paid for it if I had too, as I know people who have had shingles and it was very painful.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I couldn't agree with you more, Cheeky. In the past twenty-four hours the subjects discussed in the threads--
> 
> the possibility that the Hand AKA Cherf AKA KPG needs a manicure
> 
> ...


If these topics are not to your taste, then why are you visiting this thread? Seems like you should stay with your threads, where all the claims of "intelligent "discussion reside. FYI, we can get along just fine without you as we managed to do all summer.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> They have certainly experienced bullying behavior. Many of us are experts on the subject. One of us was recently told "you must die." We all remember that quite well. Shocking how low bullies will go here.


YAWN... Blah, blah, blah, YAWN...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Same lame excuses. No one believes a word of it.


Wrong. Everyone believes that it wasn't a threat, except the attention seekers. That is why nothing was done about it despite all your whining and carrying on to Admin. IT IS A NON ISSUE.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I don't care what any one thinks I do not expose, nor have I ever been over exposed. May have thought about it. But why would I want to be expose to being exposed.


One can never be too exposed when one is bejeweled. We have proven that over and over poolside. Therefore, you want to be expose to being exposed. It's a good thing.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> There was 1 year that my 3 brothers and I cycled thru chicken pox starting a week or so before Christmas and into Jan. That was one very quiet Christmas and New Years. The family pics gave us chuckles afterwards - around the tree with splotches of calamine lotion on our faces - but must of been tough on our parents having all 4 of us sick at the same time


Growing up there were so many kids in the neighborhood that everyone had the chicken pox and measles. Our next door neighbors had 5 kids and all five had the chicken pox at different stages. The first had it and when almost healed, the 2nd came down with it, then the 3rd and so on. My mother thought the neighbor would never get to leave the house again. :lol: I remember the calamine lotion "look". Pink is still a favorite color of mine.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I've been told that once you've had shingles, the shot won't give you extra protection. The shot is fairly new here and I didn't know about it until after I came down with them last Sept. The cost here is $95 and isn't covered by insurance. The rash was bad, but tolerable. My herbalist friend gave me a wonderful ointment that helped but I did end up with a fair amount of blotchy scars on my chest and back. The pain was indescribable - ended up crying in a fetal position more than once. The rash shouldn't come back but the pain can because the virus still lives in your nerve endings


I am terrified of it. And since I am the first responder if my parents need help, I decided to get it. I am too young to have insurance pay for it, and it cost about $200. But if I live 20 more years, that is $10 a year and it was worth if to me. Heard too many horror stories about it, so it was worth it. I also have flood insurance, so my neighbors are safe from floods. Should by a snow blower, so that too can sit in the garage collecting dust


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


This should be more fun than the watermelon pit spitting contest. I am constantly wiping off the area around the computer after reading KP posts.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have been strongly advised by 2 physician friends to get it. I need to do that, but have been delaying for some reason. Must do it soon. It is a terrible thing.


You're so right - same with me. Too bad we can't go together.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> One can never be too exposed when one is bejeweled. We have proven that over and over poolside. Therefore, you want to be expose to being exposed. It's a good thing.


 :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Growing up there were so many kids in the neighborhood that everyone had the chicken pox and measles. Our next door neighbors had 5 kids and all five had the chicken pox at different stages. The first had it and when almost healed, the 2nd came down with it, then the 3rd and so on. My mother thought the neighbor would never get to leave the house again. :lol: I remember the calamine lotion "look". Pink is still a favorite color of mine.


 :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am terrified of it. And since I am the first responder if my parents need help, I decided to get it. I am too young to have insurance pay for it, and it cost about $200. But if I live 20 more years, that is $10 a year and it was worth if to me. Heard too many horror stories about it, so it was worth it. I also have flood insurance, so my neighbors are safe from floods. Should by a snow blower, so that too can sit in the garage collecting dust


You must have been a Girl Scout - you are prepared. And now, roll up your sleeve!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This should be more fun than the watermelon pit spitting contest. I am constantly wiping off the area around the computer after reading KP posts.


You're cracking me up today! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I was going to PM this to everyone but will do this on here. This site has always been a place to share care and laugh.

In the last couple of weeks it has become the preferred battle grounds of the Left. 
I am asking all and not wanting you to be upset with me but still going to ask.

Please do not response to anyone that comes on here to stir up trouble. If upset pm one in the group and post your head off. It is not worth it to start in with their tauts.
If they come on and are only being nice fine reply in kind as bedlam did today.

If they personal attack someone on here. You may give a response but stick to facts Such as WCK does. 

If they post just to get one upset do not response to their post.

Also stay off POV, go to S&O .I know we can post any where. But by doing so they will just come over here to attack us. 

I and just mean me personal, am tired of their game playing. I want a place for us to be as we have been. 

I am sorry if I hurt any ones feelings, but am so tried of it. Just want our group to have a place where we can share. 
If they want to continue with their war games . Try to remember this. There are a lot of people who read this site on KP. . IF Left post something nasty the people on KP see it. Lets let them see what wonderful ladies we are. Let them see who is causing the problems.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I was going to PM this to everyone but will do this on here. This site has always been a place to share care and laugh.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks it has become the preferred battle grounds of the Left.
> I am asking all and not wanting you to be upset with me but still going to ask.
> ...


That's good advice, and I intend to take it. Thanks, Yarnie. You're such a keeper!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> At our next event, I propose a coffee-spitting contest - since you and Thumpbunny have been practicing. :-D


 :XD:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I had my shingles shot last month. NP said it was too expensive meaning on MC. Told her I had insurance with clinic she work for. Got the shot. How expensive is it? I did not have to pay for it. Due havae to get flu shot now.


I asked for the shot but I'm too young for it to be required or prescribed. I must pay for it myself, and it is $250 per shot.

I'm ordering a double, on the rocks, shaken not stirred.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I've been told that once you've had shingles, the shot won't give you extra protection. The shot is fairly new here and I didn't know about it until after I came down with them last Sept. The cost here is $95 and isn't covered by insurance. The rash was bad, but tolerable. My herbalist friend gave me a wonderful ointment that helped but I did end up with a fair amount of blotchy scars on my chest and back. The pain was indescribable - ended up crying in a fetal position more than once. The rash shouldn't come back but the pain can because the virus still lives in your nerve endings


I've heard the same - shot before you ever get it - its a preventive vaccine so won't help if you've already had the shingles. Also you can still get the shingles after the shot but less likely.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Solo and Thumper - it is high time you gals have avatars so I don't skip over your posts. If you'd like me to help you find, create or post graphics or explain how you can do so on KP, just PM me. (assuming you need help - you probably do not)

I find it so helpful to see an avatar to instantly know which posts I'd like to read and which to skip.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Solo and Thumper - it is high time you gals have avatars so I don't skip over your posts. If you'd like me to help you find, create or post graphics or explain how you can do so on KP, just PM me.
> 
> I find it so helpful to see an avatar to instantly know which posts I'd like to read and which to skip.


Is this better?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Is this better?


Yes - you are one gorgeous egg head!

So pretty - is it a farb chandelier or decoration? I first thought an egg but am admiring now more closely.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


That picture is too cute--you are clever with your pictures too! Cute


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Love, love, love this song.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBcP1ICgUIM


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> here we are with the photos for the latest Righter Village News, sorry but better late than never -


You are the best photographer I know! I'm stealing your photo for my avatar until it is decided whether she'll keep the original bowling ball. Her furniture is delivered tomorrow!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes - you are one gorgeous egg head!
> 
> So pretty - is it a farb chandelier or decoration? I first thought an egg but am admiring now more closely.


It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I had my shingles shot last month. NP said it was too expensive meaning on MC. Told her I had insurance with clinic she work for. Got the shot. How expensive is it? I did not have to pay for it. Due havae to get flu shot now.


When the shingles shot initially became available - we were told it was $300! Have no idea if it's still that expensive.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes - you are one gorgeous egg head!
> 
> So pretty - is it a farb chandelier or decoration? I first thought an egg but am admiring now more closely.


I changed my Avatar!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> We wouldn't want anyone to be feeling inferior to those of us who have had the opportunity to practice!


I don't drink coffee....haven't had a full cup of it in my entire life...&...that's a long, lllooonnnggg time. Can I join in if I drink tea?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


Oh, lovely love them all.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


They are beautiful! My first thought was it was a Cmas decoration on an egg shape. Then I saw it was perfectly centered within the ceiling moulding in the photo, so I thought it might be an actual chandelier.

Whatever - very nice. I'll recognize you anywhere - thanks.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I asked for the shot but I'm too young for it to be required or prescribed. I must pay for it myself, and it is $250 per shot.
> 
> I'm ordering a double, on the rocks, shaken not stirred.


My DH & I got the Shingles shot 2 years ago but asked Dr the cheapest way so she faxed an order to our pharmacist who gave us the shots for $95.00 each. That was cheaper than from the doctor where she would have charged $250.00 each!

I have had the shingles 2 times, but dr said "if" I do get them, it will be a very light case instead of the full blown shingles which were terrible as 1st time on my right face & neck then 2nd time on Rt side. Horrible pain!

Oh, my stir one for me as dr just called to say my potassium has increased from the last test! Make mine a double James Bond!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I changed my Avatar!


Yeah, I noticed....this guy is kind-of cute. If I drank even 1 cup of coffee I'm sure I'd look like this - think I'll stick to my tea.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


These look like something my Mom would have made - like you, she was multi-talented. They're beautiful!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If these topics are not to your taste, then why are you visiting this thread? Seems like you should stay with your threads, where all the claims of "intelligent "discussion reside. FYI, we can get along just fine without you as we managed to do all summer.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I was going to PM this to everyone but will do this on here. This site has always been a place to share care and laugh.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks it has become the preferred battle grounds of the Left.
> I am asking all and not wanting you to be upset with me but still going to ask.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


Beautiful!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I don't drink coffee....haven't had a full cup of it in my entire life...&...that's a long, lllooonnnggg time. Can I join in if I drink tea?


Absolutely. We do not discriminate.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> My doctor told me to get it. That was a couple of years ago. Maybe the advice is different now. With medicine, it seems to flip-flop more often than not!


Good idea to double check - the shot has only been available here for a little over a year and they might make changes to it like the flu shot and maybe there are different vaccines out there.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I was going to PM this to everyone but will do this on here. This site has always been a place to share care and laugh.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks it has become the preferred battle grounds of the Left.
> I am asking all and not wanting you to be upset with me but still going to ask.
> ...


I agree.

BTW: I've joined elsewhere and will post there instead. I'm told the mods there can control posters and can ban disruptive people. See you all on the other side - well, in this lifetime first, and then again later!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I am terrified of it. And since I am the first responder if my parents need help, I decided to get it. I am too young to have insurance pay for it, and it cost about $200. But if I live 20 more years, that is $10 a year and it was worth if to me. Heard too many horror stories about it, so it was worth it. I also have flood insurance, so my neighbors are safe from floods. Should by a snow blower, so that too can sit in the garage collecting dust


I have a high pain tolerance and that experience was so far above anything I would have imagined - I think the shot is well worth it unless someone has immune issues with vaccines. The price does seem to vary a lot based on the comments here. There are occasional twinges on the back of my shoulder (where it started) once in a while, but it's nothing like the original pain.

Important to keep yourself healthy so you can support your folks when they need you.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I was going to PM this to everyone but will do this on here. This site has always been a place to share care and laugh.
> 
> In the last couple of weeks it has become the preferred battle grounds of the Left.
> I am asking all and not wanting you to be upset with me but still going to ask.
> ...


Good advice Yarnie; I agree


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


they're all gorgeous


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Solo and Thumper - it is high time you gals have avatars so I don't skip over your posts. If you'd like me to help you find, create or post graphics or explain how you can do so on KP, just PM me. (assuming you need help - you probably do not)
> 
> I find it so helpful to see an avatar to instantly know which posts I'd like to read and which to skip.


My new avatar is my drumming grandson. That was last year - he's grown a lot. Have to put the new pictures in.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting:

I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I changed my Avatar!


Love it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I don't drink coffee....haven't had a full cup of it in my entire life...&...that's a long, lllooonnnggg time. Can I join in if I drink tea?


Yep! I drink tea, too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> These look like something my Mom would have made - like you, she was multi-talented. They're beautiful!


Thumper - I agree - beautiful decorations.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I have a high pain tolerance and that experience was so far above anything I would have imagined - I think the shot is well worth it unless someone has immune issues with vaccines. The price does seem to vary a lot based on the comments here. There are occasional twinges on the back of my shoulder (where it started) once in a while, but it's nothing like the original pain.
> 
> Important to keep yourself healthy so you can support your folks when they need you.


I had it on my back and around to my side. It doesn't hurt, but sometimes aches a little. I can still notice in the shower. It used to be kind of numb. Now I just know it was there. Feels a little different when the water hits it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

That necklace is quite amazing! I hope you keep it locked up!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


Gorgeous!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


Oh my goodness, is this not absolutely beautiful! You've impressed the heck out of me!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That necklace is quite amazing! I hope you keep it locked up!


And insured!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


Beautiful!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are the best photographer I know! I'm stealing your photo for my avatar until it is decided whether she'll keep the original bowling ball. Her furniture is delivered tomorrow!


You'll have to give us an update on the final decorating project after the new furniture arrives. (Tried to find a pic that included sparks, but couldn't find one so have to wait until the original ball is available!)


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Janeway said:


> I changed my Avatar!


Jane that reminded me of one of the Garfield cartoons ---


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> My new avatar is my drumming grandson. That was last year - he's grown a lot. Have to put the new pictures in.


He's a good looking boy Bonnie,


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


that is a very beautiful piece of jewelry KPG, I love the sapphires. I don't remember the original story - did you have it designed for you?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> You'll have to give us an update on the final decorating project after the new furniture arrives. (Tried to find a pic that included sparks, but couldn't find one so have to wait until the original ball is available!)


Her furniture is expected tomorrow. She is in panic mode and wants me there to help her decide to keep it or refuse it on the spot. Are you kidding me? I told her I'll not be there as I would not have helped pick out something she wouldn't like, use or enjoy. She is such a worrier. I'll go and throw all kinds of paint swatches all over her kitchen counter; that'll stress her out, make her clean up the mess and get her mind off the new arriving furniture. I'll send away the movers and she'll be stuck with the stuff she ordered. :-D

She decided that we should now choose a new DR chandelier - really? I guess she doesn't like the glow only I can provide to the room.

We'll be placing the furniture, she'll be keeping it, and then I'll stencil a focus wall in metallic or pearl paints (gingko leaves) soon. BF got her new fridge last week, but tomorrow is hutch and DR set and den recliner.

Accessories to follow. So little time, so much work and so many places to strike with sparking bowling balls.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That necklace is quite amazing! I hope you keep it locked up!


Nah, it isn't even in a special place. I've only had it on once. I do love jewelry and have too much of it exactly like yarn, fabric and patterns.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Oh my goodness, is this not absolutely beautiful! You've impressed the heck out of me!


Thanks - to LL and CB too. I discussed it with RU, maybe privately, I don't remember. Now I know I did as you all are asking about it.

I like contemporary and unique pieces. This one is pretty cool I think.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> He's a good looking boy Bonnie,


Thanks. We have 4 grandsons ranging in age from 16 to 13. They are fast friends - 2 brothers, 1 step-brother, and the one in the picture - their cousin. They've played together all their lives - very gratifying to see that. The little ones are adorable. And the big ones - the older they are, the more room they have in your heart.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> He's a good looking boy Bonnie,


 :thumbup: Favors her too!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> that is a very beautiful piece of jewelry KPG, I love the sapphires. I don't remember the original story - did you have it designed for you?


I'm sorry, I've realized the story was done privately. I know the 'raw' stones was discussed on a thread somewhere, but not the pendant I guess.

The blue sapphires were raw when bought and set along with the diamonds to create the pendant.

Not much of a story but one I discussed with RU, I think. Maybe I'm wrong on with whom too. :shock:


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## Becky B (Sep 22, 2013)

The doctor that made house calls when I was little moved up the street from my mother when he retired. He had lost so many patients from the area to managable diseases that he packed a sidearm everywhere he went.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


Wow, what a beauty! Read where it belong to you--I'm impressed!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Becky B said:


> The doctor that made house calls when I was little moved up the street from my mother when he retired. He had lost so many patients from the area to managable diseases that he packed a sidearm everywhere he went.


Love your kitty Cats!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

oops wrong thread!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> oops wrong thread!


NS


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thanks. We have 4 grandsons ranging in age from 16 to 13. They are fast friends - 2 brothers, 1 step-brother, and the one in the picture - their cousin. They've played together all their lives - very gratifying to see that. The little ones are adorable. And the big ones - the older they are, the more room they have in your heart.


Cute grandson.

I have 4 grands 2 born to our family & 2 who were born into our hearts (adopted) so they are the love of my life.

Aren't we lucky to be a grandma?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Good morning ladies.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Cute grandson.
> 
> I have 4 grands 2 born to our family & 2 who were born into our hearts (adopted) so they are the love of my life.
> 
> Aren't we lucky to be a grandma?


I can't wait! About four more weeks! DIL is sooo big!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

This was sent to me by a friend.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How nice. We can see the ones with ugly hearts by their words on KP.


Amen!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I have done something last night that are again my principles. I have 2 wips and started a new shawl. I am going on a trip with 2 of my friends in 2 weeks . It gets chilly at night so I wanted a shawl to wear with jeans. I don't know what is wrong with me. It is a simple pattern but I couldn't get the yo to look right. It was dark blue and I just had a lamp to see by. No problems with a new project tho I frogged it 2 times so I am back to 2 wips.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I was making winter head band for g.d for christmas. Rip 4 times last time cut yarn and threw it away.
\Yarn overs are a bugger, and dark blue is like black to me. Blind as a bat when I do them. 

you will get it done and know it will be beautiful.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bon Grandson is a handsome lad, must get his looks from Grandma.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> This was sent to me by a friend.


I like that Jane, thanks for posting


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have done something last night that are again my principles. I have 2 wips and started a new shawl. I am going on a trip with 2 of my friends in 2 weeks . It gets chilly at night so I wanted a shawl to wear with jeans. I don't know what is wrong with me. It is a simple pattern but I couldn't get the yo to look right. It was dark blue and I just had a lamp to see by. No problems with a new project tho I frogged it 2 times so I am back to 2 wips.


try again in daylight?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I was making winter head band for g.d for christmas. Rip 4 times last time cut yarn and threw it away.
> \Yarn overs are a bugger, and dark blue is like black to me. Blind as a bat when I do them.
> 
> you will get it done and know it will be beautiful.


you too Yarnie, try again in daylight or maybe different pattern?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> RUKnitting:
> 
> I was going through photos yesterday and found this one. This is the lauriat diamond pendant I told you about that was made with a couple of the raw blue sapphires I bought.


It is so beautiful and bet it looks lovely on you. why not wear it more. You only have one life why leave it in a box, you go girl wear it even if cleaning house. :thumbup:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

hope everyone has a great day


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> It is so beautiful and bet it looks lovely on you. why not wear it more. You only have one life why leave it in a box, you go girl wear it even if cleaning house. :thumbup:


She could always give it to me. I'd promise to even wear it in the shower so that it got plenty of use.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> She could always give it to me. I'd promise to even wear it in the shower so that it got plenty of use.


I'd take it too. Walmart or a ball game would be a good place to wear it. Love sapphire and diamonds. I have a slide bracelet out of sapphire and diamonds. I can't wear it unless someone is here to see the clasp and put it on me. :shock:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> She could always give it to me. I'd promise to even wear it in the shower so that it got plenty of use.


Oh what a picture i have in my mind of you doing it in the shower. :XD:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> you too Yarnie, try again in daylight or maybe different pattern?


I know you are right but only seem to get to it at night lately. i have a floor standing Otto lite and also a table clip on one with magififyer too. Blind as a bat. :shock:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> hope everyone has a great day


You to WCK. Hope you sell all of your yarn so you can buy more! :lol:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> hope everyone has a great day


me too for everyone.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh what a picture i have in my mind of you doing it in the shower. :XD:


I am blind can't get that out of my mind ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Finished washing my fleece. Not sure how much it weighs, it is still drying. Ordered a hackle to help me with this process.Then off to comb and pull it through a diz for top

I found that I can not work on any dark yarn except in the daylight or with my Ott light right over my shoulder


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am blind can't get that out of my mind ahhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> Finished washing my fleece. Not sure how much it weighs, it is still drying. Ordered a hackle to help me with this process.Then off to comb and pull it through a diz for top
> 
> I found that I can not work on any dark yarn except in the daylight or with my Ott light right over my shoulder


Oh you are finish with washing does house smell better? 
What is a hackle and a diz? I am learning a lot from you about fleece. Sure a lot of work just to get it to the point of spinning. 
Are you going to dye it too like hanks you posted already. Your yarn is lovely and the colors.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

OMG - just got home from BF's condo and helped place her new furniture. So pretty - I'll post pics in a minute.

AND ..... the sparking bowling bowl.

She'll definitely keep it if I have to throw it at her!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have done something last night that are again my principles. I have 2 wips and started a new shawl. I am going on a trip with 2 of my friends in 2 weeks . It gets chilly at night so I wanted a shawl to wear with jeans. I don't know what is wrong with me. It is a simple pattern but I couldn't get the yo to look right. It was dark blue and I just had a lamp to see by. No problems with a new project tho I frogged it 2 times so I am back to 2 wips.


Good for you! I am so bad about starting new things before finishing UFOs. Sometimes it is just correct to do it.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> It is so beautiful and bet it looks lovely on you. why not wear it more. You only have one life why leave it in a box, you go girl wear it even if cleaning house. :thumbup:


It is very pretty in person. I will wear it just haven't yet. I've owned it for awhile now too, so shame on me. I love jewelry and never put in a safe deposit box or tuck away for special occasions.

That is why I said, not insured nor in a special box or place. I do wear my stuff but don't treat anything as special (except for my wedding rings). Everything else is just material stuff that I enjoy, am blessed to own, but doesn't really count if you understand my meaning.

I'm the same way with everything - use the crystal globets for coke and iced tea, the good linens and dinnerware when I'm willing to wash and dry by hand.

Now we do fine china on Taco Bell serving trays!

BTW; my flatware did arrive and I'll be counting and running through the dish washer today. I love it - not fine utensils, but simply what I loved. The handles sparkle (hammered finish) and they are heavy duty so I know we'll enjoy them.

I realized that 36 pieces arrived within the Taco Bell Restaurant order - so now we have 36 pieces of access flatware that we didn't order nor pay for.

I'll have to tell the company to charge my CC again for the extra flatware.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> She could always give it to me. I'd promise to even wear it in the shower so that it got plenty of use.


Wonderful - it will rinse off any dust and you'll sparkle brilliantly. (I'm good at that too.) 

You can also clean house wearing it even if in the nude according to Yarnie. Anyone watching will definitely notice the sapphires, they're pretty big.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I was making winter head band for g.d for christmas. Rip 4 times last time cut yarn and threw it away.
> \Yarn overs are a bugger, and dark blue is like black to me. Blind as a bat when I do them.
> 
> you will get it done and know it will be beautiful.


Nice - wishing you well to complete your head band.

I recently picked up some handmade Kazuri beads that are created in Africa. The sales support women and disadvantaged families there in Kenya. The beads are very pretty.

I've found a knitted bracelet (cuff) pattern that requires large beads, so I'm planning on making some of those next.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I'd take it too. Walmart or a ball game would be a good place to wear it. Love sapphire and diamonds. I have a slide bracelet out of sapphire and diamonds. I can't wear it unless someone is here to see the clasp and put it on me. :shock:


Wanna trade? :-D OK, I guess I should send the necklace to you so you'll have a set.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh what a picture i have in my mind of you doing it in the shower. :XD:


 ... doing 'it' oh, dear Yarnie, you have definitely have changed the meaning of wearing it to doing it. :shock:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You to WCK. Hope you sell all of your yarn so you can buy more! :lol:


 :thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I am blind can't get that out of my mind ahhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> Finished washing my fleece. Not sure how much it weighs, it is still drying. Ordered a hackle to help me with this process.Then off to comb and pull it through a diz for top
> 
> I found that I can not work on any dark yarn except in the daylight or with my Ott light right over my shoulder


You are so efficient! Already all washed - amazing. Please tell me what a hackle and diz are and how you'll use them?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You can also clean house wearing it even if in the nude according to Yarnie. Anyone watching will definitely notice the sapphires.


If they didn't die laughing first.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale. 

Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.

The swag over the sofa was the inspiration for the entire combo room project. She refused to part with the floral swag as it was the colors she always wanted to use and "her" style; traditional. I beefed up the swag with pearl picks, ting/ting and more silk flowers to make it more prominent, then went from there. I promised to blend her traditional style with more modern pieces that were duly purpose yet something to push her that she'd love.

The mirror is now hanging vertically instead or horizontally (will be moved) still. That wall I'll stencil for her.

The hutch arrived without the glass shelf holders on the right side - and nothing is really in the hutch yet except, NOTICE it .... the infamous bowling ball!

The two shelves on the left side of the hutch can be slid away and she can use the server top for a mini bar or to serve food from. I'll make her a hot mat to protect the wood surface. One shelf also will hold stemware beneath it. She has both great decorative and hidden storage in her new hutch.

The flowers she has decided to keep in the vase I gifted to her. I couldn't believe she actually like them. (I did but never thought she'd accept them.) 

The drapes will either go or I'll re-fashion. She loved the colors and still likes the fabric but the style isn't correct. She bought them years ago and the colors are good yet I may line them so not see through perhaps with a reddish shade to match her new custom cherry color furniture. Or I'll add solid color or just make or find new. She must ditch the fringe.

Things are progressing nicely. She has to live with big changes before I can move her to the next phase.

Guess what the last thing she said as I was leaving her place this morning?

"I'm not sure I want to keep the swag anymore."

Thank God we are best friends for life.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> If they didn't die laughing first.


Who in your family laughs at diamonds and sapphires? :lol:

Weirdos.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> This was sent to me by a friend.


Yes, very true.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Who in your family laughs at diamonds and sapphires? :lol:
> 
> Weirdos.


The jewelry would impress them. It would b the display model they'd take issue with.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


Wow, will you please decorate my entire house? My living room furniture is 34 years old but I won't dare take a picture to show you. It still does look nice; however, it is that 70's shade of green! My lamp belonged to my mother & the table where it sits, belonged to my MIL.

So my house is decorated in Early Halloween--it will scare you for sure!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wanna trade? :-D OK, I guess I should send the necklace to you so you'll have a set.


Oh, darn as I'm always a day late & several dollars short so I loooved your necklace too!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> I don't drink coffee....haven't had a full cup of it in my entire life...&...that's a long, lllooonnnggg time. Can I join in if I drink tea?


Your technically not drinking coffee, but spewing it. :lol: :lol: Any liquid would be allowed.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


Your ornaments are really lovely.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


Nice job KPG. I like the DR set. Your friend will get use to the "change" soon and before you know it you will be commissioned to tackle the next room.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's one of the Christmas decorations that I made and display every year around the holiday. I asked the boys if they wanted to take some of them, which they all did. This one went home with my oldest. Here's a few more pictures of some of the other ones.


Oh Thumper you must havae the most beautiful tree at Christmas. Just think How beautiful it will look with two special present under the tree. Grandbaby's I mean. Wonder if you could take a picture of Grandma's special gift this year. I would love to see it all . :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Yarnie - please take note, this will be featured event at the Righter's Village Fall Festival along with pumpkin bowling / throwing --


Sounds good to me for the Fest of all . :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lets see we have bump pumpkin dumping, coffee spit off and pumpkin bowling. All good things to do. wonder who will win? Would think we should have a lite up your pumpkin,You do know who will win that one.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Lets see we have bump pumpkin dumping, coffee spit off and pumpkin bowling. All good things to do. wonder who will win? Would think we should have a lite up your pumpkin,You do know who will win that one.


You are too cute with words--such a great reporter!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> The jewelry would impress them. It would b the display model they'd take issue with.


Lovely ornaments!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Sorry I have a necklace , and ear rings to go with my bracelet. Mind are Yellow gold custom made antique reproduction. But I will wear yours anytime. Fil and daughter were in the jewelry business then. My only contemporary jewelry is my wedding ring and band. They are white gold. My fil made them up for dh to give me. My watches are all antiques. Wind up kind.My daughter cast a ring for my yellow diamond. I didn't have enough gold to set the small stones in it but I still love it because she cast it for me from an antique. I have enough good stuff to leave to my girls. I am not into jewelry like I once was.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Wanna trade? :-D OK, I guess I should send the necklace to you so you'll have a set.[/quot


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Your ornaments are really lovely.


Thanks! I can't take all the credit, though. They are from kits. http://crackerboxkits.com


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks! I can't take all the credit, though. They are from kits. http://crackerboxkits.com


 Yes you can you still made them. :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nice - wishing you well to complete your head band.
> 
> I recently picked up some handmade Kazuri beads that are created in Africa. The sales support women and disadvantaged families there in Kenya. The beads are very pretty.
> 
> I've found a knitted bracelet (cuff) pattern that requires large beads, so I'm planning on making some of those next.


don't forget photo when done


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


Just beautiful KGP wish you lived near me.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Has anyone made a bracelet with buttons? I have seen them but have not made one. They are so cute.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Has anyone made a bracelet with button? I have seen them but have not made one. They are so cute.


we are now going from Gold and jem stones to butttons and bracelet boy that a big jump. I have seen them , and on necklaces too.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> we are now going from Gold and jem stones to butttons and bracelet boy that a big jump. I have seen them , and on necklaces too.


I am more of a homespun gal now. 
:lol: :roll:


----------



## DollieD (Mar 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> An update: This what we have to look forward to. Now one week after her surgery, we have discovered that Medicaid will not cover the Rx the doctor requested. We CAN NOT pay for it or she can loose Medicaid. We can get a substitute but that would mean driving about an hour and half one way back to the doctors office and hand carry the Rx to the pharmacy.
> 
> $60 worth of gas to get a $30 prescription.


I haven't been to a doctor in years, who didn't do the 'electronic script thing'!
I would not drive back...I would call and ask for him to fax, or electronically send the new script! Things are tough enough!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I am blind can't get that out of my mind ahhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> Finished washing my fleece. Not sure how much it weighs, it is still drying. Ordered a hackle to help me with this process.Then off to comb and pull it through a diz for top
> 
> I found that I can not work on any dark yarn except in the daylight or with my Ott light right over my shoulder


Are you drying it outside? A friend processes border cheviot (excellent for needlefelting) and sets it out to dry but the last time had to chase away birds that decided it would be good for nest material


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - just got home from BF's condo and helped place her new furniture. So pretty - I'll post pics in a minute.
> 
> AND ..... the sparking bowling bowl.
> 
> She'll definitely keep it if I have to throw it at her!


that is one fancy bowling ball - and no scorch marks! She needs to keep it so the "sparking" story can be repeated often


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Since it is a narcotic, it has to be a hand written prescription.


They could mail it to you.


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Has anyone made a bracelet with buttons? I have seen them but have not made one. They are so cute.


I made a button bracelet. ---- didn't knit it ---- took a piece of black elastic, think it was 1 inch wide ---- had a LOT of my Mom & Grandmother's old, antique buttons, sewed them on, sewed the ends together & just slip it over my wrist. Made 1 a bit narrower for my GD. Also, bought a black purse that looks like it's crocheted ---- took numerous more of the old buttons & sewed them on the purse. As far as I know the bracelets & purse are 1 of a kind. I love making things like this that are a bit different ---- oh, almost forgot, I also made a black, elastic belt covered with the old buttons. Needless to say, I had LOTS of Mommy & Grandma's buttons & still have more. Hope my GD wants more button "things".


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: What a makeover, definite shift from traditional! I love the vase & flowers. My mom had a couple of large floor vases with dried and/or silk flowers. If she decides to change the swag, you can start the decorating process all over again :roll:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I made a button bracelet. ---- didn't knit it ---- took a piece of black elastic, think it was 1 inch wide ---- had a LOT of my Mom & Grandmother's old, antique buttons, sewed them on, sewed the ends together & just slip it over my wrist. Made 1 a bit narrower for my GD. Also, bought a black purse that looks like it's crocheted ---- took numerous more of the old buttons & sewed them on the purse. As far as I know the bracelets & purse are 1 of a kind. I love making things like this that are a bit different ---- oh, almost forgot, I also made a black, elastic belt covered with the old buttons. Needless to say, I had LOTS of Mommy & Grandma's buttons & still have more. Hope my GD wants more button "things".


That sounds like the ones I have seen. I have my grandmother's buttons, mine and my dh's grandmothers. I started my gd a button jar when she was little. She played with the buttons every time she came. If she has an extra button from her clothes she puts them her jar. Maybe we need to make us a bracelet out of them.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Sorry I have a necklace , and ear rings to go with my bracelet. Mind are Yellow gold custom made antique reproduction. But I will wear yours anytime. Fil and daughter were in the jewelry business then. My only contemporary jewelry is my wedding ring and band. They are white gold. My fil made them up for dh to give me. My watches are all antiques. Wind up kind.My daughter cast a ring for my yellow diamond. I didn't have enough gold to set the small stones in it but I still love it because she cast it for me from an antique. I have enough good stuff to leave to my girls. I am not into jewelry like I once was.
> 
> 
> knitpresentgifts said:
> ...


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Has anyone made a bracelet with buttons? I have seen them but have not made one. They are so cute.


I've seen some very pretty ones, one of the local ladies makes them and sells them (along with other jewelry) at the Farmer's Market. She has found some fantastic buttons at thrift shops


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


Missed this pic. Nice work!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That sounds like the ones I have seen. I have my grandmother's buttons, mine and my dh's grandmothers. I started my gd a button jar when she was little. She played with the buttons every time she came. If she has an extra button from her clothes she puts them her jar. Maybe we need to make us a bracelet out of them.


Sounds like a fabulous button collection. I love unusual buttons, sometimes I like to attach them to hats, neckwarmers or handwarmers. Please do show & tell with bracelets


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Sorry I have a necklace , and ear rings to go with my bracelet. Mind are Yellow gold custom made antique reproduction. But I will wear yours anytime. Fil and daughter were in the jewelry business then. My only contemporary jewelry is my wedding ring and band. They are white gold. My fil made them up for dh to give me. My watches are all antiques. Wind up kind.My daughter cast a ring for my yellow diamond. I didn't have enough gold to set the small stones in it but I still love it because she cast it for me from an antique. I have enough good stuff to leave to my girls. I am not into jewelry like I once was.
> 
> 
> knitpresentgifts said:
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I made a button bracelet. ---- didn't knit it ---- took a piece of black elastic, think it was 1 inch wide ---- had a LOT of my Mom & Grandmother's old, antique buttons, sewed them on, sewed the ends together & just slip it over my wrist. Made 1 a bit narrower for my GD. Also, bought a black purse that looks like it's crocheted ---- took numerous more of the old buttons & sewed them on the purse. As far as I know the bracelets & purse are 1 of a kind. I love making things like this that are a bit different ---- oh, almost forgot, I also made a black, elastic belt covered with the old buttons. Needless to say, I had LOTS of Mommy & Grandma's buttons & still have more. Hope my GD wants more button "things".


My girls bought a button bracelet for me for Christmas so will take a picture & post it soon as Molly is asleep on my lap!


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Sounds like a fabulous button collection. I love unusual buttons, sometimes I like to attach them to hats, neckwarmers or handwarmers. Please do show & tell with bracelets


This is Georgiegirl here..I just learned a few days ago how to post photos. Have started snapping photos. Next week when I'm working in my office...on my computer, I'll start scanning, copying & putting them into my computer. Plan on then posting photos of the things I've made. See ya' then.....


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

:thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> This is Georgiegirl here..I just learned a few days ago how to post photos. Have started snapping photos. Next week when I'm working in my office...on my computer, I'll start scanning, copying & putting them into my computer. Plan on then posting photos of the things I've made. See ya' then.....


Look forward to seeing the photos, love seeing what people are doing or have done. Also love hearing about your family history, so please keep the stories coming.

Have you contacted RUKnitting about your ad in the Village Times? - your photos would make for perfect copy. You might have missed your business profile and photo in Yarnie's last issue ---


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> First Taste in slo mo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> First Taste in slo mo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I have spent the last hour plus having to seperate knitting pamplet that got wet and did not know it and pages together and trying to not lose patterns so did some not. Oh the lost oh the sorrow oh the heck with it. Just lost that much time when i ccould have been on here having fun. Gosh darn it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone use pumpkins for fall decorations? I use to use different pumpkins but had some to rot inside my house. Pew wee thought something had died. I stiffed it out with my blood hound nose. It was my pumpkins rotting in my wooden bowl. I bought plastic ones from Hobby Lobby . Here is an article on making them look real. I had already used boot wax on mine. http://www.hometalk.com/581462/making-your-plastic-pumpkins-look-real


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone use pumpkins for fall decorations? I use to use different pumpkins but had some to rot inside my house. Pew wee thought something had died. I stiffed it out with my blood hound nose. It was my pumpkins rotting in my wooden bowl. I bought plastic ones from Hobby Lobby . Here is an article on making them look real. I had already used boot wax on mine. http://www.hometalk.com/581462/making-your-plastic-pumpkins-look-real


nice always Burnt amber to antique my stuff.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> nice always Burnt amber to antique my stuff.


Me too. Learn that years ago. Boot wax drys faster tho.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone use pumpkins for fall decorations? I use to use different pumpkins but had some to rot inside my house. Pew wee thought something had died. I stiffed it out with my blood hound nose. It was my pumpkins rotting in my wooden bowl. I bought plastic ones from Hobby Lobby . Here is an article on making them look real. I had already used boot wax on mine. http://www.hometalk.com/581462/making-your-plastic-pumpkins-look-real


Yes! I just bought six decorative gourds and a pumpkin today. Need to get some hay bales and potted mums to create a display. I put mine outside. To keep them lasting longer and animals from eating them I spray them with acrylic sealer (urethane) in a matte finish.

Have you ever bought/carved the kind you can carve that I find available at Joanns? I like them.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too. Learn that years ago. Boot wax drys faster tho.


yes and you do know it also protect the wood, use it at times on carvings but have to be careful what to use as it can stain wood after a time.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! I just bought six decorative gourds and a pumpkin today. Need to get some hay bales and potted mums to create a display. I put mine outside. To keep them lasting longer and animals from eating them I spray them with acrylic sealer (urethane) in a matte finish.


Real or plastic? Because my dogs will eat both. :shock:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! I just bought six decorative gourds and a pumpkin today. Need to get some hay bales and potted mums to create a display. I put mine outside. To keep them lasting longer and animals from eating them I spray them with acrylic sealer (urethane) in a matte finish.
> 
> Have you ever bought/carved the kind you can carve that I find available at Joanns? I like them.


I like to have a good knife in my hands it is always good to have a sharp one. As after what I did to night I was thinking a good knife is your best defence against booklets that like to seal themselves and when you get mad just give them a poke.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Have you ever used paper bag cut out faces. Put dand in bag and those tea candles that operate on batterys and line the walk way. They are so cute and kids love to step on them pick them up to see what is in it. carry them away. It is so lovely to see the little rug rats in there treat or treat costumes.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Real or plastic? Because my dogs will eat both. :shock:


Yes sounds like a dog if it moves eat it if it doesn't move eat it. If you have to pick it up shake it then eat it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I am now off to sulmber land to dream about the booklets I have destoryed so that when I want to do the pattern I will have to just quess what was on the bottom of the page.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Look forward to seeing the photos, love seeing what people are doing or have done. Also love hearing about your family history, so please keep the stories coming.
> 
> Have you contacted RUKnitting about your ad in the Village Times? - your photos would make for perfect copy. You might have missed your business profile and photo in Yarnie's last issue ---


WCK: This Georgie's Beauty Emporium is not mine, it has nothing to do with me. Someone has just used the name "Georgie". I know nothing about it, but thanks for pointing it out to me. I do recall the 1st time I saw it on our KP some time ago though.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thanks. We have 4 grandsons ranging in age from 16 to 13. They are fast friends - 2 brothers, 1 step-brother, and the one in the picture - their cousin. They've played together all their lives - very gratifying to see that. The little ones are adorable. And the big ones - the older they are, the more room they have in your heart.


Forgot to mention, we also have 4 grandsons ranging in age from 9 to almost 3. And 5 granddaughters. Full house! They, along with their parents, are our greatest blessings.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> WCK: This Georgie's Beauty Emporium is not mine, it has nothing to do with me. Someone has just used the name "Georgie". I know nothing about it, but thanks for pointing it out to me. I do recall the 1st time I saw it on our KP some time ago though.


Wck you got some splaining to do. LOL


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Carrying a heavy load!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> NS


 :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Cute grandson.
> 
> I have 4 grands 2 born to our family & 2 who were born into our hearts (adopted) so they are the love of my life.
> 
> Aren't we lucky to be a grandma?


Yes, we are!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bon Grandson is a handsome lad, must get his looks from Grandma.


He doesn't really get his looks from me, but thanks. I think he's real cute. He always has a great smile in pictures. Not like some of the others who HIDE!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh you are finish with washing does house smell better?
> What is a hackle and a diz? I am learning a lot from you about fleece. Sure a lot of work just to get it to the point of spinning.
> Are you going to dye it too like hanks you posted already. Your yarn is lovely and the colors.


I had the same question about the hackle. He or she? Does he/she do windows?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ... doing 'it' oh, dear Yarnie, you have definitely have changed the meaning of wearing it to doing it. :shock:


I tried to ignore that. It wasn't easy - and now it's impossible! Thanks heaps, KPG! :roll: :wink:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> WCK - here are some pics of the new LR/DR furniture for my BF. Because her condo is small, we had to be very careful about colors, sizes and scale.
> 
> Nothing is polished, cleaned nor properly accessorized yet - just the main furniture pieces in place.
> 
> ...


It looks wonderful!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> The jewelry would impress them. It would b the display model they'd take issue with.


Thumper, you are on a roll!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks! I can't take all the credit, though. They are from kits. http://crackerboxkits.com


I made one once many years ago. I can't remember if it was a kit. It was really fun. I just got too busy to do any more. It turned out pretty.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

DollieD said:


> I haven't been to a doctor in years, who didn't do the 'electronic script thing'!
> I would not drive back...I would call and ask for him to fax, or electronically send the new script! Things are tough enough!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> This is Georgiegirl here..I just learned a few days ago how to post photos. Have started snapping photos. Next week when I'm working in my office...on my computer, I'll start scanning, copying & putting them into my computer. Plan on then posting photos of the things I've made. See ya' then.....


I'm looking forward to that!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> First Taste in slo mo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Aren't they cute? What is that stuff - vegemite? I've never heard of it. Don't they have other flavors - like mint or chocolate or bubble gum?


Yuch! Tried Vegemite in Australia, it was awful.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Have you ever used paper bag cut out faces. Put dand in bag and those tea candles that operate on batterys and line the walk way. They are so cute and kids love to step on them pick them up to see what is in it. carry them away. It is so lovely to see the little rug rats in there treat or treat costumes.


We're too spread out to get trick or treaters at home, but more than make up for it at work. Our business assoc sponsors "Spooktacular" on the last Sat. of Oct. every year. In the morning there are a couple hours of trick or treating with most businesses handing out treats and then starting at noon there are games and contests -- costume contest, pumpkin bowling, mummy your mummy (wrap your mom in toilet paper), find treasure in pumpkin guts (blind folded and grope to find treasure in cold cooked spagetti in a pumkin). We've had 600-700 kids the last few years. Many parents really like it because it's daylight and safe


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes sounds like a dog if it moves eat it if it doesn't move eat it. If you have to pick it up shake it then eat it.


and if none of that applies - lay down on it or pee on it :lol:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> WCK: This Georgie's Beauty Emporium is not mine, it has nothing to do with me. Someone has just used the name "Georgie". I know nothing about it, but thanks for pointing it out to me. I do recall the 1st time I saw it on our KP some time ago though.


Sorry Georgiegirl, should have put this into context for you. Over the last 6 months we've had a lot of virtual "fun events" like pool parties, fashion shows, sleep overs and started spoofing each other in a very friendly way. Then Yarnie put her creative talents to use and started publishing the "Righer Village News" again spoofing each other. Since you and Wendy have been posting regularly, Yarnie included both of you in the latest editon, you with a beauty shop and Wendy with a tea shop. KPG and I have been posting pics to complement the stories.

I hope you're not offended, it was all meant in good fun


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> Yuch! Tried Vegemite in Australia, it was awful.


Agree with you, it even smelled awful


----------



## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Sorry Georgiegirl, should have put this into context for you. Over the last 6 months we've had a lot of virtual "fun events" like pool parties, fashion shows, sleep overs and started spoofing each other in a very friendly way. Then Yarnie put her creative talents to use and started publishing the "Righer Village News" again spoofing each other. Since you and Wendy have been posting regularly, Yarnie included both of you in the latest editon, you with a beauty shop and Wendy with a tea shop. KPG and I have been posting pics to complement the stories.
> 
> I hope you're not offended, it was all meant in good fun


Oh my goodness, of course I'm not offended, just the opposite. Am glad to be included in your fun. I don't have a beauty shop, but in addition to her college degree, my DD is a licensed cosmetologist (they don't seem to call them beauticians anymore) why? I haven't a clue. She teaches in a church school now though. A good "girl". If you knew me, you'd probably think I'm 1 of the funniest women you'd know. I love to laugh & have fun......so to repeat myself, I'm not offended in the least.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> Oh my goodness, of course I'm not offended, just the opposite. Am glad to be included in your fun. I don't have a beauty shop, but in addition to her college degree, my DD is a licensed cosmetologist (they don't seem to call them beauticians anymore) why? I haven't a clue. She teaches in a church school now though. A good "girl". If you knew me, you'd probably think I'm 1 of the funniest women you'd know. I love to laugh & have fun......so to repeat myself, I'm not offended in the least.


 :lol: :thumbup: Love a good sense of humour; I've enjoyed your stories, so please keep them coming


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> We're too spread out to get trick or treaters at home, but more than make up for it at work. Our business assoc sponsors "Spooktacular" on the last Sat. of Oct. every year. In the morning there are a couple hours of trick or treating with most businesses handing out treats and then starting at noon there are games and contests -- costume contest, pumpkin bowling, mummy your mummy (wrap your mom in toilet paper), find treasure in pumpkin guts (blind folded and grope to find treasure in cold cooked spagetti in a pumkin). We've had 600-700 kids the last few years. Many parents really like it because it's daylight and safe


That sounds like a great time - and a service to the neighborhood, too! I loved the pumpkin guts treasure - will have to pass that along to my kids. Yuck-o - what fun!!

I think grown-ups enjoy Halloween as much as the kids do! And that's good.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> First Taste in slo mo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Real or plastic? Because my dogs will eat both. :shock:


Real - everything.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I tried to ignore that. It wasn't easy - and now it's impossible! Thanks heaps, KPG! :roll: :wink:


My pleasure. :lol:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> We're too spread out to get trick or treaters at home, but more than make up for it at work. Our business assoc sponsors "Spooktacular" on the last Sat. of Oct. every year. In the morning there are a couple hours of trick or treating with most businesses handing out treats and then starting at noon there are games and contests -- costume contest, pumpkin bowling, mummy your mummy (wrap your mom in toilet paper), find treasure in pumpkin guts (blind folded and grope to find treasure in cold cooked spagetti in a pumkin). We've had 600-700 kids the last few years. Many parents really like it because it's daylight and safe


I want to go and have fun!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

New avatar - another grandson - oldest of the youngest 8. I keep telling him to cheer up! Very sweet boy - loves soccer and reading.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> New avatar - another grandson - oldest of the youngest 8. I keep telling him to cheer up! Very sweet boy - loves soccer and reading.


So handsome! You are one lucky grand mom.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

OK Georgiegirl, I bought 3+ pounds of country boneless pork ribs from the butcher yesterday. Your BBQ sauce is made and the ribs are now in the slow cooker.

I've invited some people for dinner. The comments after dinner will determine whether or not you ever cut my hair again in your beauty shop.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So handsome! You are one lucky grand mom.


I can't wait to meet my grands. We're getting closer every day!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Bonnie What a cutie. His personality fills the your post with sparkling eyes. They always say you need to watch your daughter but in his case you need to watch your GS. Don't want the girls to distract him from his studies.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So handsome! You are one lucky grand mom.


He's 9. That was taken when he was 8. We're very lucky.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Bonnie What a cutie. His personality fills the your post with sparkling eyes. They always say you need to watch your daughter but in his case you need to watch your GS. Don't want the girls to distract him from his studies.


You're so right. He's easily distracted - unless he's reading. He's a people kid - he's the one who was born in Taiwan. Class clown - can you tell? He's not bratty - just funny.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Now I miss the other picture. I realized that since I post so much on here, I'm enjoying seeing their faces every day. I haven't put any of the girls up yet.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Nice job KPG. I like the DR set. Your friend will get use to the "change" soon and before you know it you will be commissioned to tackle the next room.


Thanks my friend. The DR chairs are part of a ensemble that goes with the hutch. We didn't like the DR table at all that went with the set, so we custom ordered a solid wood table with a cherry stain finish to match the DR chairs and hutch which we also ordered in cherry color stain.

It all matches beautifully and compliments her new red sofa. The wood, of course, isn't really red, but has cherry red undertones. Exactly the look I tried to fashion for her as the combo room is rather small so everything has to serve a purpose and blend well.

She called today to thank me as she loves her new furniture so much. She said, "Thank God I asked you to help or I would have ended up with another floral print, skirted couch with ugly, oversized matched DR furniture again."

Love that girl ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

It was time to close my friend's cabin for the winter. So sad when the summer actually ends. I enjoyed having the camper at the lake all summer and being able to kayak in the morning and early evenings. With friend's permission, I paid for an electric outlet that would be able to handle the camper's needs, which is 30 amps. The camper has a home by the lake forever now, I get to be there also. This was the best solution, where we can have alone time and not get on each others nerves. LOL We also have room for company. I'll have to wait to unload the camper until the ground dries up. We had rain on and off yesterday. I don't want to get the truck stuck in the backyard. The dogs were excited to be able to run free in the backyard and not be on the leash. I use the camper throughout the year, so don't have to unload everything. I just need to do some laundry and then put it back into the camper. Most of the food stays, just what could spoil is removed. It's a small camper and doesn't take much time to clean, which is wonderful. The camper was the best present to myself that I ever gave myself.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thanks my friend. The DR chairs are part of a ensemble that goes with the hutch. We didn't like the DR table at all that went with the set, so we custom ordered a solid wood table with a cherry stain finish to match the DR chairs and hutch which we also ordered in cherry color stain.
> 
> It all matches beautifully and compliments her new red sofa. The wood, of course, isn't really red, but has cherry red undertones. Exactly the look I tried to fashion for her as the combo room is rather small so everything has to serve a purpose and blend well.
> 
> ...


I'm positive the feeling is mutual!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It was time to close my friend's cabin for the winter. So sad when the summer actually ends. I enjoyed having the camper at the lake all summer and being able to kayak in the morning and early evenings. With friend's permission, I paid for an electric outlet that would be able to handle the camper's needs, which is 30 amps. The camper has a home by the lake forever now, I get to be there also. This was the best solution, where we can have alone time and not get on each others nerves. LOL We also have room for company. I'll have to wait to unload the camper until the ground dries up. We had rain on and off yesterday. I don't want to get the truck stuck in the backyard. The dogs were excited to be able to run free in the backyard and not be on the leash. I use the camper throughout the year, so don't have to unload everything. I just need to do some laundry and then put it back into the camper. Most of the food stays, just what could spoil is removed. It's a small camper and doesn't take much time to clean, which is wonderful. The camper was the best present to myself that I ever gave myself.


It sounds like a real retreat. I'm glad you have it.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I am taking a break from my attempt of organizing my yarn. Filled 8 bins of yarn, and 4 (30 gal) tubs of roving. ( Well one is empty, waiting for my alpaca yarn to be sent. ) 

My home still looks like a wreck. I must have 20 empty boxes to break down. It was fun 'refinding' all that yarn. Now if I only had the time to knit it all.

Back to work


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You're so right. He's easily distracted - unless he's reading. He's a people kid - he's the one who was born in Taiwan. Class clown - can you tell? He's not bratty - just funny.


I love how he smiles with his whole face. My middle son had the hardest time smiling for pictures. We've got some pretty goofy ones.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> New avatar - another grandson - oldest of the youngest 8. I keep telling him to cheer up! Very sweet boy - loves soccer and reading.


He is a cutie too!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I can't wait to meet my grands. We're getting closer every day!


We can't wait either. I am excited for you. Nothing like having grand babies!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It was time to close my friend's cabin for the winter. So sad when the summer actually ends. I enjoyed having the camper at the lake all summer and being able to kayak in the morning and early evenings. With friend's permission, I paid for an electric outlet that would be able to handle the camper's needs, which is 30 amps. The camper has a home by the lake forever now, I get to be there also. This was the best solution, where we can have alone time and not get on each others nerves. LOL We also have room for company. I'll have to wait to unload the camper until the ground dries up. We had rain on and off yesterday. I don't want to get the truck stuck in the backyard. The dogs were excited to be able to run free in the backyard and not be on the leash. I use the camper throughout the year, so don't have to unload everything. I just need to do some laundry and then put it back into the camper. Most of the food stays, just what could spoil is removed. It's a small camper and doesn't take much time to clean, which is wonderful. The camper was the best present to myself that I ever gave myself.


Oh what a treat for you. All that loading and unloading is a pain.Yay for you! I have never stayed in our camper. The guys use it for deer camp. I have no desire to even go inside. :shock: :roll:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I just finished the knitting on my Gnarled Oak cardigan. It was knit using Madelinetosh on the William Morris color way. I haven't hidden all of the ends yet but that will have to wait. I need to get the jacket for my DIL done or she won't have one to wear when the weather turns cooler.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I just finished the knitting on my Gnarled Oak cardigan. It was knit using Madelinetosh on the William Morris color way. I haven't hidden all of the ends yet but that will have to wait. I need to get the jacket for my DIL done or she won't have one to wear when the weather turns cooler.


It looks gorgeous! What pattern is it? Madelinetosh is very soft and gorgeous, isn't it?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It looks gorgeous! What pattern is it? Madelinetosh is very soft and gorgeous, isn't it?


Thanks! It's the Gnarled Oak cardigan from the Coastal Knits book. I liked knitting with the Tosh. I have quite a bit left so am debating what I'm going to do with it. Cowl, hat, gloves?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks! It's the Gnarled Oak cardigan from the Coastal Knits book. I liked knitting with the Tosh. I have quite a bit left so am debating what I'm going to do with it. Cowl, hat, gloves?


Cowl is nice. So are the others.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks! It's the Gnarled Oak cardigan from the Coastal Knits book. I liked knitting with the Tosh. I have quite a bit left so am debating what I'm going to do with it. Cowl, hat, gloves?


Very pretty sweater. I like the color of the yarn. I would go with the cowl. You'll probably get a lot of use out of it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh me! That is a beautiful sweater Thumper.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Beautiful! It looks like it is top down. No pieces to sew together.


Thank you for the complements everybody. Joey, it was bottom up but the back, front, and sides were knit in one piece and the sleeves were in the round and attached to the body at the armhole. The armholes were then grafted to the body. So, no pieces to sew together...yay!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I want to see if this works


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

try again


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I want to see if this works


Love those! I have a few Santa's that I have done it blue too. Great job Yarnie. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

i am been transforming photo as my pictures are frozen this is the results of 5 hours of work and still not done. Was suppose to put them on Garden but what the heck thought if i can get them on here I was lucky. I did it I did it yea.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I have am been transforming photo as my pictures are frozen this is the results of 5 hours of work and still not done. Was suppose to put them on Garden but what the heck thought if I can get them on here I was lucky. I did it I did it yea.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> try again


I want to take a class! When do we start? Love the burnt umber to outline the craving. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I just finished the knitting on my Gnarled Oak cardigan. It was knit using Madelinetosh on the William Morris color way. I haven't hidden all of the ends yet but that will have to wait. I need to get the jacket for my DIL done or she won't have one to wear when the weather turns cooler.


Oh I love it Thumper sure she will appreciate it. How or what are you making for grand baby's . Pretty soon now.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> New avatar - another grandson - oldest of the youngest 8. I keep telling him to cheer up! Very sweet boy - loves soccer and reading.


Bonnie - that smile just lights up the room; he sure looks happy and I think he could cheer anyone up


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It was time to close my friend's cabin for the winter. So sad when the summer actually ends. I enjoyed having the camper at the lake all summer and being able to kayak in the morning and early evenings. With friend's permission, I paid for an electric outlet that would be able to handle the camper's needs, which is 30 amps. The camper has a home by the lake forever now, I get to be there also. This was the best solution, where we can have alone time and not get on each others nerves. LOL We also have room for company. I'll have to wait to unload the camper until the ground dries up. We had rain on and off yesterday. I don't want to get the truck stuck in the backyard. The dogs were excited to be able to run free in the backyard and not be on the leash. I use the camper throughout the year, so don't have to unload everything. I just need to do some laundry and then put it back into the camper. Most of the food stays, just what could spoil is removed. It's a small camper and doesn't take much time to clean, which is wonderful. The camper was the best present to myself that I ever gave myself.


nice to treat yourself to something that gives you so much pleasure; now you can plan ahead to next spring back at the lake. Where do you camp over the winter?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I want to take a class! When do we start? Love the burnt umber to outline the craving. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


ha ha, tell you something carving was easier then transfering these photos. I still don't know how I did it. Should write it down.
Crock Pot Chicken spaghetti. Olny one hour to heat it through. But preparation took one hour two. Cheese chucks, olives, mushroom diced tomatoes, spaghetti, pepper, onions, cubed chicken, chicken both, tomato and mushroom soup. and can when done parmesan chees. He is doing the dishes tonight I don't care if football game is on.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I just finished the knitting on my Gnarled Oak cardigan. It was knit using Madelinetosh on the William Morris color way. I haven't hidden all of the ends yet but that will have to wait. I need to get the jacket for my DIL done or she won't have one to wear when the weather turns cooler.


turned out beautifully Thumper and it's probably getting cool enough for you to wear


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> and if none of that applies - lay down on it or pee on it :lol:


That sounds about right too.

Oh you have such fun with the holloween party lucky you. The children have grown in the neighbor hood so do not have that many. I loved to see all their costumes.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks! It's the Gnarled Oak cardigan from the Coastal Knits book. I liked knitting with the Tosh. I have quite a bit left so am debating what I'm going to do with it. Cowl, hat, gloves?


Would make a soft, warm hat. I made up a slouchy hat in the Tosh chunky using your colourway - love how it feels


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh Bon love the adv. He is so cute and love the smile on his face.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Egads meant I was tranferring pictures today and still not done. I want the neighbor to come and fix my pictures.   :-(


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> try again


Yarnie, I love your Santas, they all look great. How many in your collection?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> nice to treat yourself to something that gives you so much pleasure; now you can plan ahead to next spring back at the lake. Where do you camp over the winter?


yes she can and just think she may be able to have grand babies with her. :thumbup:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Love those! I have a few Santa's that I have done it blue too. Great job Yarnie. :thumbup:


post yours too CB - we can have a santa parade


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I love how he smiles with his whole face. My middle son had the hardest time smiling for pictures. We've got some pretty goofy ones.


Thanks - we have some like that, too. And one who hates having his picture taken.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> He is a cutie too!


Thank you. I'm going to see him soon. They live in between you and me.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I just finished the knitting on my Gnarled Oak cardigan. It was knit using Madelinetosh on the William Morris color way. I haven't hidden all of the ends yet but that will have to wait. I need to get the jacket for my DIL done or she won't have one to wear when the weather turns cooler.


Very pretty - love the color! I couldn't knit that - impressed!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thank you for the complements everybody. Joey, it was bottom up but the back, front, and sides were knit in one piece and the sleeves were in the round and attached to the body at the armhole. The armholes were then grafted to the body. So, no pieces to sew together...yay!


Dear me, I can just barely understand all that. Back to my washcloth for Mary. Light aqua, medium aqua, with a pink stripe at each color change and a pink heart if I can manage it. See? I'm still in Kindergarten when it comes to knitting. But I don't care - I LOVE it! Someday, if I live long enough, I will make hats and socks and vests and maybe even a sweater. ?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Did you do all these, Yarnie? Carve and paint? The talent on here! So nice - so difficult!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I have am been transforming photo as my pictures are frozen this is the results of 5 hours of work and still not done. Was suppose to put them on Garden but what the heck thought if I can get them on here I was lucky. I did it I did it yea.


You're so happy you posted it twice! Good for you!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> i am been transforming photo as my pictures are frozen this is the results of 5 hours of work and still not done. Was suppose to put them on Garden but what the heck thought if i can get them on here I was lucky. I did it I did it yea.


You're so happy you posted it twice! Good for you!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


Lovely lovely all of it you are a gifted artist threw and threw. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Did you do all these, Yarnie? Carve and paint? The talent on here! So nice - so difficult!


thank you yes I did. Not that hard or difficult just takes a bit of practice.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Dear me, I can just barely understand all that. Back to my washcloth for Mary. Light aqua, medium aqua, with a pink stripe at each color change and a pink heart if I can manage it. See? I'm still in Kindergarten when it comes to knitting. But I don't care - I LOVE it! Someday, if I live long enough, I will make hats and socks and vests and maybe even a sweater. ?


you had best post it lady would love to see your wash cloth.Your doing fine. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> thank you yes I did. Not that hard or difficult just takes a bit of practice.


You are good and it is not easy. You have the talent.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> you had best post it lady would love to see your wash cloth.Your doing fine. :thumbup:


Yarnie, you always make me laugh or smile. I just love you!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


Such beautiful paintings. Somehow I can just picture you doing that. Wonderful talent you have.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


wow - those are beautiful CB. I didn't know you were a painter as well! How many other hidden talents do you have?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Dear me, I can just barely understand all that. Back to my washcloth for Mary. Light aqua, medium aqua, with a pink stripe at each color change and a pink heart if I can manage it. See? I'm still in Kindergarten when it comes to knitting. But I don't care - I LOVE it! Someday, if I live long enough, I will make hats and socks and vests and maybe even a sweater. ?


You can do it! 1 stitch at a time. If you're doing fancy wash cloths, you can make a hat or vest. Socks maybe a little later.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

There has been a wonderful aroma in the house the past few hours thanks to the ribs in the slow cooker. Dinner will be ready in about half an hour so I'll report on the taste test later. I see KPG is having ribs tonight too.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There has been a wonderful aroma in the house the past few hours thanks to the ribs in the slow cooker. Dinner will be ready in about half an hour so I'll report on the taste test later. I see KPG is having ribs tonight too.


Yes let us know. I did buffalo wings yesterday in the crock. I put them in frozen cooked them and then drained off the fat. Put them under the broiler with sauce . Yummy. Hope you enjoy the ribs.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Ah so it is a rib feast is it. Now she will be a confirm crock potter too.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I brought my pumpkin pie candle up and lite it tonight When fall and winter come I like to have scented candles out the ones in glass jars or little one that melt in jars or ect. It get so enclosed that just have to have smelly things around. Does any one else do that?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I brought my pumpkin pie candle up and lite it tonight When fall and winter come I like to have scented candles out the ones in glass jars or little one that melt in jars or ect. It get so enclosed that just have to have smelly things around. Does any one else do that?


Yes I love good smelly things going. Do you have a Scentsy Thing with he bulb that heats up the candle? I have one that I bought from walmart. You can get all kind of scents. I also love the Bath and Body oils. I used to put an old kettle on with different spices on the stove. We had a church young adult party at Christmas a few years back. I had cinnamon and cloves boiling in the kettle also hot cider in a big pot. One of the leaders got a cup and poured herself a big cup of cloves and took a big drink . I watched her do it and just let her drink it. You should have seen her face. The cloves were bitter and strong. She said that is the nasty. Lol I told her that is what she got for being nosy. We are close friends so we laughed together over it. :lol: :lol: :lol: She would fit right in here if she could sew.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Only when I fry fish. Otherwise I can't handle the smell.
> 
> I use the glade scented oil ones, put the dish in the empty sink and leave the room. When the candle is gone the fish smell is too.


Never thought to use sink I always put them on top of the stove. When using in another room do not leave lite if leaving room.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I brought my pumpkin pie candle up and lite it tonight When fall and winter come I like to have scented candles out the ones in glass jars or little one that melt in jars or ect. It get so enclosed that just have to have smelly things around. Does any one else do that?


We like scented candles too. It's been very windy and rainy today and we lost power for a little while just after dinner. Up until 2 years ago, we used to lose power quite often during a storm so always kept a supply of candles on hand. Hydro did a big maintenance program 2 years ago so we don't lose power as often but we still like the candles.

Ribs were yummy, very tender and the sauce was great. But I also like them crispy after being grilled so will probably still do them in the oven once in a while. Or maybe partially cook them in the crock and finish in the oven


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You can do it! 1 stitch at a time. If you're doing fancy wash cloths, you can make a hat or vest. Socks maybe a little later.


My co-mother-in-law (she's my DD's MIL; I'm her DS's MIL) is going to send me some easy hat patterns. She knits a LOT of hats - and other things. She's very good.

Thanks so much for your encouragement. It's nice to hear that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> There has been a wonderful aroma in the house the past few hours thanks to the ribs in the slow cooker. Dinner will be ready in about half an hour so I'll report on the taste test later. I see KPG is having ribs tonight too.


Yum. We had hamburgers. We like those on football days. Too bad our team is playing a lousy game. But who can beat the Patriots? The "people who predict" gave Atlanta a 2-point advantage. I hoped they were right, but we're getting trounced. Our Tony Gonzalez is carrying the game - he's great!

Falcons behind 30-13. Wait - just scored. Five minutes later, onside kick and Falcons go the ball! There's still HOPE!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I brought my pumpkin pie candle up and lite it tonight When fall and winter come I like to have scented candles out the ones in glass jars or little one that melt in jars or ect. It get so enclosed that just have to have smelly things around. Does any one else do that?


Yes. It's cozy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Never thought to use sink I always put them on top of the stove. When using in another room do not leave lite if leaving room.


I don't leave them either. I'm afraid I'll forget they're lit and go to bed.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> My co-mother-in-law (she's my DD's MIL; I'm her DS's MIL) is going to send me some easy hat patterns. She knits a LOT of hats - and other things. She's very good.
> 
> Thanks so much for your encouragement. It's nice to hear that.


That's great, basic hats aren't too hard - knits, purls and a few k 2 togethers so I'm sure you'll do great


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I have am been transforming photo as my pictures are frozen this is the results of 5 hours of work and still not done. Was suppose to put them on Garden but what the heck thought if I can get them on here I was lucky. I did it I did it yea.


Awesome Santas Yarnie - you done good!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> There has been a wonderful aroma in the house the past few hours thanks to the ribs in the slow cooker. Dinner will be ready in about half an hour so I'll report on the taste test later. I see KPG is having ribs tonight too.


Yes, we did. They were fantastic! Thanks Georgie. Girl you earned yourself many stars, my dinner was great thanks to your recipe.

Also a big thank you to Wendy (I believe?) for the Spice Cake recipe. I served it as a bread along with the BBQ slow-cooked ribs, baked beans and an asparagus/corn/roasted pepper salad. My favorite was the cake! I went with ApplePie Spice, used a real orange for the grated peel and juice but also added some orange extract. Sooo delish!

We all loved dinner and have leftovers - happy, happy, happy!

WCK - good for you for using your slow cooker so much already. I'll try to remember to type up my favorite burrito recipe so you can try and we can get everyone hooked on Mexican food from the sc as well.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

CB - loved to see your great painting and crafts. You are multi-talented.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I brought my pumpkin pie candle up and lite it tonight When fall and winter come I like to have scented candles out the ones in glass jars or little one that melt in jars or ect. It get so enclosed that just have to have smelly things around. Does any one else do that?


I love melted tarts of scented wax. I buy and burn candles too, but I think the tarts are more aromatic. I also like Yankee Candle oil plug-ins for the house and their scent trays for the car if I can find them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Game over. Falcons lost. I hate football.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Game over. Falcons lost. I hate football.


Oh I am sorry. The Razorbacks lost last night too.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Beautiful sweater Thumper. You are not only a great quilter but also a wonderful knitter. The sweater is lovely in workmanship and choice of yarn.

CB nice paintings. What a multi-talented group of ladies.

Joey try some fresh slices of ginger when frying fish and there will be no odor unless the fish are not fresh. Also salt them inside and out for a while and it will improve the fresh taste.



joeysomma said:


> Only when I fry fish. Otherwise I can't handle the smell.
> 
> I use the glade scented oil ones, put the dish in the empty sink and leave the room. When the candle is gone the fish smell is too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So did the Badgers


Bad football night for KP. Let's wallow - I started it.     

Sorry about that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

After 1:00. I have a zillion things to do tomorrow - better hurry up and get to sleep! Ever try that? Hurry up and relax. RELAX, I SAY!

Sleep well, friends. Please forgive my insanity - I'm up too late.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You rinse the salt out after 1/2 hour or right before you cook the fish. And I prefer the maldon salt. It just serves to refresh the fish from being out of the salt water of the ocean and enhances the flavor.



joeysomma said:


> Salt the Fish? I don't use salt in my cooking. Maybe a little Lawry's. The fish are about as fresh as they can be.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Okey dokey S S.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I was just trying to be polite, and make sure you knew I wasn't butting in to say something unpleasant. I don't think you exclude people, but I'm sure you don't eant argumentative and insulting posts, either. By the way, I used to be SeattleSoul, asked Admin to change my username to MaidInBedlam, announced I'd done this on a bunch of topics so it wouldn't seem like I was trying to hid behind a new username, and I would very much appreciate being addressed as MaidInBedlam, or MIB for short.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


My DH & I went to an outdoor craft fair yesterday near the Great Smokey Mountain National Park in Townsend, Tennessee.....tents - tables - everything exhibited & sold must be hand made. So many beautiful - whimsical - fun things. But, ya' gotta know I surely looked at the knitting. It inspired me to keep my needles clicking. I am knitting a scarf for my GD for Christmas.

It's exactly 5:09 AM here - couldn't sleep - what better to do than say "hi" to y'all in KP land. Yawn - yawn - can't really say "good night" so "good mornin'".


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


Please please explain how you did that

How do you work the dp's?

Is one ball for the right side, the other for the wrong?

Are both rows knitted?

Quick tell me or I will think of more questions....

My home still looks like a bomb hit it, I was discovering all my yarn around my home. Bought bins and filled 6 of them, and found another stash in another corner. But found some that would be perfect for a scarf like that.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yum. We had hamburgers. We like those on football days. Too bad our team is playing a lousy game. But who can beat the Patriots? The "people who predict" gave Atlanta a 2-point advantage. I hoped they were right, but we're getting trounced. Our Tony Gonzalez is carrying the game - he's great!
> 
> Falcons behind 30-13. Wait - just scored. Five minutes later, onside kick and Falcons go the ball! There's still HOPE!


Well, at least the Vikings finally won a game!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Please please explain how you did that
> 
> How do you work the dp's?
> 
> ...


Is that all the yarn? I can beat you in that respect. Don't know how to use it all!
I have the same question.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Is that all the yarn? I can beat you in that respect. Don't know how to use it all!
> I have the same question.


Won't tell you about the 4 (30 gal) bins I filled with roving

Yikes, just found some more yarn


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Salt the Fish? I don't use salt in my cooking. Maybe a little Lawry's. The fish are about as fresh as they can be.


I use nothing but salt and pepper. I'll admit, I fry it. In olive oil - so delicious. I thought I'd try baking the fish next time. I used to always do it that way. Easier, healthier (I guess, although I'll still use olive oil), and much less messy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> My DH & I went to an outdoor craft fair yesterday near the Great Smokey Mountain National Park in Townsend, Tennessee.....tents - tables - everything exhibited & sold must be hand made. So many beautiful - whimsical - fun things. But, ya' gotta know I surely looked at the knitting. It inspired me to keep my needles clicking. I am knitting a scarf for my GD for Christmas.
> 
> It's exactly 5:09 AM here - couldn't sleep - what better to do than say "hi" to y'all in KP land. Yawn - yawn - can't really say "good night" so "good mornin'".


What could be better than a craft fair in the mountains! Cool and creative. I've been to some in a little artsy mountain town near Asheville, NC - so much fun! All the artists are so willing to explain their work - very interesting. Glad you had a good time. Since you were up so early, you can start clicking those needles!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Well, at least the Vikings finally won a game!


Go, Vikings! My husband was cheering them on!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


They are great, Margaret - you are very talented. I bet your Christmas looks so beautiful.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


That is very interesting. I like it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My fish (Walleye, Bass, Northern Pike, and Lake Trout) are From Canada. All fresh water. Husband catches, cleans and freezes them. Then brings them home frozen.


Very nice. We used to fish on the Bird River near the Chesapeake Bay. My FIL would catch literally nearly a hundred white perch, clean and freeze them. Those were the days! What fun!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, we did. They were fantastic! Thanks Georgie. Girl you earned yourself many stars, my dinner was great thanks to your recipe.
> 
> Also a big thank you to Wendy (I believe?) for the Spice Cake recipe. I served it as a bread along with the BBQ slow-cooked ribs, baked beans and an asparagus/corn/roasted pepper salad. My favorite was the cake! I went with ApplePie Spice, used a real orange for the grated peel and juice but also added some orange extract. Sooo delish!
> 
> ...


It's morning and now I am hungry and it is all your fault. Must put up with it as to lazy to make breakfast. Oh woe is me.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I love melted tarts of scented wax. I buy and burn candles too, but I think the tarts are more aromatic. I also like Yankee Candle oil plug-ins for the house and their scent trays for the car if I can find them.


Love Yankee candles too. They always have a new scent to try.
Did not know had one for car must be on the look out for that too.Use the Tarts too. But lazy I guess get the big jars, and once and a while do us the little jars if they do not have scented big jars.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So did the Badgers


games over I lost did not get any knitting done.   :roll:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Beautiful sweater Thumper. You are not only a great quilter but also a wonderful knitter. The sweater is lovely in workmanship and choice of yarn.
> 
> CB nice paintings. What a multi-talented group of ladies.
> 
> Joey try some fresh slices of ginger when frying fish and there will be no odor unless the fish are not fresh. Also salt them inside and out for a while and it will improve the fresh taste.


thanks for new idea.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You rinse the salt out after 1/2 hour or right before you cook the fish. And I prefer the maldon salt. It just serves to refresh the fish from being out of the salt water of the ocean and enhances the flavor.


I use milk, never thought of salt though am going to try it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


I was thinking of doing that saw a picture of scarf yarn . Like yours though the change is pretty.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> My DH & I went to an outdoor craft fair yesterday near the Great Smokey Mountain National Park in Townsend, Tennessee.....tents - tables - everything exhibited & sold must be hand made. So many beautiful - whimsical - fun things. But, ya' gotta know I surely looked at the knitting. It inspired me to keep my needles clicking. I am knitting a scarf for my GD for Christmas.
> 
> It's exactly 5:09 AM here - couldn't sleep - what better to do than say "hi" to y'all in KP land. Yawn - yawn - can't really say "good night" so "good mornin'".


Did you buy any more treasures. Know how you feel can't sleep might as well get up.
Smokey moutain,s I love them except for run away truck lane. Always afraid would have to use them and they are not very long either. 
You hames are the best. so is Jack Daniels tippisy cake. Tried to copy it one year didn't turn out the same.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Please please explain how you did that
> 
> How do you work the dp's?
> 
> ...


Oh we have a person who does not remember where she put yarn and then fines it . Does it sound like someone else we know????


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> That is very interesting. I like it.


Oh have miss you glad your back.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

think I have answered post filled up a page.
Had a lovely night last night what a joy. I was shut down on computer, spend a while till I saw lites not all lite on modem. Wire disconnected. Neighbor when fixing it must have not tighten it down. so when finial found it tired and went to bed. Then up in the middle of night. Some one must have hit me upside the head. Not really.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> My DH & I went to an outdoor craft fair yesterday near the Great Smokey Mountain National Park in Townsend, Tennessee.....tents - tables - everything exhibited & sold must be hand made. So many beautiful - whimsical - fun things. But, ya' gotta know I surely looked at the knitting. It inspired me to keep my needles clicking. I am knitting a scarf for my GD for Christmas.
> 
> It's exactly 5:09 AM here - couldn't sleep - what better to do than say "hi" to y'all in KP land. Yawn - yawn - can't really say "good night" so "good mornin'".


Sounds like you had a good day. I always love to see what others have done in all the different arts. It's 7:30 am here and I'm half way thru my first big mug of coffee

Hope today is a little less windy. There were about 20,000 households that lost their power yesterday. Ours flickered a lot and went off for a short moments a few times but came back on


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Please please explain how you did that
> 
> How do you work the dp's?
> 
> ...


It's much easier than it sounds ---
1. cast onto a dpn with 1 yarn and leave the yarn hanging
2. don't turn your work but slide stitches back to the right point of dpn and knit 2nd yarn over top of cast on stitches
3. at end of row drop 2nd yarn, pick up 1st yarn, turn your work and knit to end of row, drop yarn

keep repeating step 2 & 3 until you run out of yarn or have desired length. All rows are knit, but the fininshed work has stocking and garter stitch ridges because every 2nd row is worked over prev row like knitting in the round instead of turning your work

I like this techique for a lot of textured yarns including mohair. I usally use larger needles than what the yarn calls for to open up the ridges a little more

Your stash sounds fabulous. Rediscovering yarn is almost like it's new again. Do you spin all of your rovings or do you felt with them too?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> My fish (Walleye, Bass, Northern Pike, and Lake Trout) are From Canada. All fresh water. Husband catches, cleans and freezes them. Then brings them home frozen.


Have never had walleye or bass, but love pike and trout. Have you ever baked the fish instead of frying it?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Won't tell you about the 4 (30 gal) bins I filled with roving
> 
> Yikes, just found some more yarn


 :lol: :shock: :roll: lots to keep you busy, winter is coming


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> It's morning and now I am hungry and it is all your fault. Must put up with it as to lazy to make breakfast. Oh woe is me.


Yarnie - do you need another trip to U-Bake for muffins?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh we have a person who does not remember where she put yarn and then fines it . Does it sound like someone else we know????


 all of us????


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I will plead guilty to doing the same thing.


Ah, yes. Rediscovering treasures. It's getting to the point that when I decide to start a new project I go through my bins. I usually find something I've forgotten that needs finishing (I'm notoriously bad at that...I have PADD (Project Attention Deficit Disorder)), discover yarn that I can already use for a the project, discover previously purchased yarn and pattern for one I'd rather do instead, or become so overwhelmed with what I have I render myself useless and unable to make any decision whatsoever.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> They are great, Margaret - you are very talented. I bet your Christmas looks so beautiful.


Hi, Shirley. I just went to your Flicker photos - I can hardly believe that it's possible to make such beautiful pictures out of fabric. It's so detailed that at first I thought maybe you painted on the fabric. Then I took a close look and saw that you actually form the fabric into these pictures. I have trouble folding up a hem! I know I sent you a PM about this once before - and I am still in awe.
Bonnie


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I have baked it, used a George Foreman, steamed it with onions, and fried it. I really do not like eating fish, even less cooking it. And we have a freezer full of fish.
> 
> The easiest is using the George Foreman. But my husband does not like it cooked that way.


The sacrifices we make for those we love!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> The sacrifices we make for those we love!


I love the leftovers re-purposed into fish cakes. Yum!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


Kitty those are so pretty. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have baked it, used a George Foreman, steamed it with onions, and fried it. I really do not like eating fish, even less cooking it. And we have a freezer full of fish.
> 
> The easiest is using the George Foreman. But my husband does not like it cooked that way.


Of course they like it better the hard way :shock: When i bake fish I just use what ever seasoning I want then put butter and squirt of lemon. The best is grilled that way but I turn it too much and it falls apart. I had some wonderful fried catfish in N. Orleans. It has crunchy crust. My daddy was the best catfish and perch frier. Never been good as him. Crunchy hush puppies. My mother was get so mad at him. He would invite the world to eat and then let her clean up the mess.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> try again


The carvings are fabulous Yarnie. Looks like any piece of wood is fair game. You go girl.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> nice to treat yourself to something that gives you so much pleasure; now you can plan ahead to next spring back at the lake. Where do you camp over the winter?


I mostly camp around the Gulf in Texas, AL, and LA. I have gone as far east as the panhandle of Florida to meet up with some friends. Definite beach pattern there. :lol:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is one of my painting on enamelware. I did it in acrylics. Others 2 are my first oil paintings from the 70's. Last is some of my Santas. I have Nativity scenes and Noah's Ark. Will have to wait until Christmas is unpacked to take pics of them. Sold most of my things. Don't have pics of everything. We have a few pics of craft shows but don't have a clue where they are. :shock:


CB, you are one talented lady.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ah, yes. Rediscovering treasures. It's getting to the point that when I decide to start a new project I go through my bins. I usually find something I've forgotten that needs finishing (I'm notoriously bad at that...I have PADD (Project Attention Deficit Disorder)), discover yarn that I can already use for a the project, discover previously purchased yarn and pattern for one I'd rather do instead, or become so overwhelmed with what I have I render myself useless and unable to make any decision whatsoever.


Lol good one PADD. :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Love Yankee candles too. They always have a new scent to try.
> Did not know had one for car must be on the look out for that too.Use the Tarts too. But lazy I guess get the big jars, and once and a while do us the little jars if they do not have scented big jars.


Bath and Body Works has sprays available of most of their scents. I keep a few in the truck and others in the camper, after all they are girlie things. I also use them around the house.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Sounds like you had a good day. I always love to see what others have done in all the different arts. It's 7:30 am here and I'm half way thru my first big mug of coffee
> 
> Hope today is a little less windy. There were about 20,000 households that lost their power yesterday. Ours flickered a lot and went off for a short moments a few times but came back on


I am so glad our power lines are underground. It really saved us during the ice storm a few years ago. While everyone was without power for up to 2 weeks, we were OK. We couldn't get out, but had lights and heat.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Ah, yes. Rediscovering treasures. It's getting to the point that when I decide to start a new project I go through my bins. I usually find something I've forgotten that needs finishing (I'm notoriously bad at that...I have PADD (Project Attention Deficit Disorder)), discover yarn that I can already use for a the project, discover previously purchased yarn and pattern for one I'd rather do instead, or become so overwhelmed with what I have I render myself useless and unable to make any decision whatsoever.


When this happens, it is time for an ice cream time out. Everything will sort itself out after a large bowl of your favorite flavor.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Bath and Body Works has sprays available of most of their scents. I keep a few in the truck and others in the camper, after all they are girlie things. I also use them around the house.


I love them. It only takes a squirt too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


Very pretty - love the colors! For you?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> My co-mother-in-law (she's my DD's MIL; I'm her DS's MIL) is going to send me some easy hat patterns. She knits a LOT of hats - and other things. She's very good.
> 
> Thanks so much for your encouragement. It's nice to hear that.


WCK is correct. You can do it one stitch at a time. And if you run into any directions you're confused about we are here to help. Take the plunge and give it a try. I know you can do it!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I love them. It only takes a squirt too.


A big squirt or little squirt. :shock: :lol:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> WCK is correct. You can do it one stitch at a time. And if you run into any directions you're confused about we are here to help. Take the plunge and give it a try. I know you can do it!


She can and you are right all the help we need is right here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I love the leftovers re-purposed into fish cakes. Yum!


Never thought of that Fish cakes good idea.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The carvings are fabulous Yarnie. Looks like any piece of wood is fair game. You go girl.


yes that is me if wood it has to be carved. Even had to carve Santa faces on wooden pencils. Give me wood and i go nuts. Kinded of like give me yarn and I go nuts. Wait I am nuts.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I mostly camp around the Gulf in Texas, AL, and LA. I have gone as far east as the panhandle of Florida to meet up with some friends. Definite beach pattern there. :lol:


I am available for next trip.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Bath and Body Works has sprays available of most of their scents. I keep a few in the truck and others in the camper, after all they are girlie things. I also use them around the house.


Haven't been there in a long time. Must go and see it again. Wed never out grow our need for girlie things do we.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Break time Hubby up to cabin painting. Time alone love it House as clean as it is going to get and that mean as good as I feel like doing.
crock Pot on low brats and krut tonight. Even have a few apples left from tree in yard and used them.
Almond poppy seed muffin's yet to make. 
Knitting to hearts content. 
Sun shine nice weather.
Killed a wasp on window. That is something for me. Avoid them and do not kill them . They are like spiders hate them and don't like killing them as afraid they will come after me. 
Off to knit again.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes I made two cowls one for niece and another for DIL out of "Coming up Flowers" (CUF) both in a purple/wine/raspberry mix. I forget the name of the color. They turned out very nice if I do say so myself. I made them on circular needles and one was in stockinette stitch. Liked it the best and the other was with 170 stitches and you k3p3 and it creates a neat pattern. Have used this pattern before with a combo of mohair and a bamboo yarn and liked it. With the CUF yarn it was not as good. Acceptable but not good. I think that pattern is better with non-novelty yarn. The stockinette is a nice background to the flowers.



west coast kitty said:


> RU did you decide to make anything with the Flower yarn that you were thinking about a few months ago? I made a new sample scarf using 1 ball of Flowers and another yarn called Tiara - worked alternating 1 row of each yarn by sliding back and forth on double point needles.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

HELP. I have heard of taking old sweaters and felting them. Has any one ever done this? I would like to felt two that I have and then cut them up and make flowers out of them and sew them together to make a scarf. 

Have never felted but I believe I'd felt them and then cut them out if this is possible. Suggestions??


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> HELP. I have heard of taking old sweaters and felting them. Has any one ever done this? I would like to felt two that I have and then cut them up and make flowers out of them and sew them together to make a scarf.
> 
> Have never felted but I believe I'd felt them and then cut them out if this is possible. Suggestions??


yes as long as they are wool or percentage of high wool. Go to RAv they have a web site about how to do it. I have done it brought wools sweaters from goodwill and st. vinnies. make neat teddy's purse and sure they will be wonderful for scarfs. I also purchase a nice pillow case from St. Vinnies to put sweaters in and tennis balls to agitate. Use hot hot water in wash machine. Just do it. Also check goggle or yahoo.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> A big squirt or little squirt. :shock: :lol:


Big squirt at my house. Stink guys and dogs. :roll: :shock:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> CB, you are one talented lady.


Thank you. Wanted to remind everyone that 5 of the Santa's are not mine. Got them from a craft show. But the rest of the things are mine and dh's.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I mostly camp around the Gulf in Texas, AL, and LA. I have gone as far east as the panhandle of Florida to meet up with some friends. Definite beach pattern there. :lol:


Call me next time you go to the Gulf. I will bring my sand bucket. :XD:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yes that is me if wood it has to be carved. Even had to carve Santa faces on wooden pencils. Give me wood and i go nuts. Kinded of like give me yarn and I go nuts. Wait I am nuts.


Me too. Happy when I got a sander for Anniversary. Give me a board and I am in Heaven. Forget about a pencil unless it is a drawing pencil My dil just looks at me strange when my boys give me Lowe's card or new tool bag full of tools for Christmas. That is what I got last Christmas.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too. Happy when I got a sander for Anniversary. Give me a board and I am in Heaven. Forget about a pencil unless it is a drawing pencil My dil just looks at me strange when my boys give me Lowe's card or new tool bag full of tools for Christmas. That is what I got last Christmas.
> 
> [/quote
> Hey, whatever floats your boat! Go for it - we KPers seem to have such diverse talents.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

I just posted 3 photos of my kitting on "Pictures" - I think that's where I went with this photo posting "thing" I tried my best to figure out where to post them - you might want to take a look - I really do knit!
Georgiegirl


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh I am sorry. The Razorbacks lost last night too.


The Colts won, but I don't watch them DH does...I knit!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Wow, I had several pages to read & catch-up on so Yarnie, CB, & Thumper you are very talented. Thanks for showing your work.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> I just posted 3 photos of my kitting on "Pictures" - I think that's where I went with this photo posting "thing" I tried my best to figure out where to post them - you might want to take a look - I really do knit!
> Georgiegirl


Where do you find them in "pictures" as there are so many! Thanks.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Do you remember the big pencil that kids got for first grade ect . Well that is what I did carve on now the are plastic. Tried it it was o.k. but like the wood ones better.

Yes gift certif. for carving knives ect. Happy happy. Or yarn and ect happy .


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I also carved santa faces on wooden thread spools. Well lady gifed me with enough spools that I would have to live two life times to use them. Only thing I can not get any more are antique pelt boards.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Where do you find them in "pictures" as there are so many! Thanks.


They're listed under "Some of my knitting - at last - 1st attempt sending"


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I also carved santa faces on wooden thread spools. Well lady gifed me with enough spools that I would have to live two life times to use them. Only thing I can not get any more are antique pelt boards.


I have a pelt board one that I bought from someone is a craft show with me. It was just painted. Have you seen the old ironing boards that have been painted on?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you use white pine boards?


Yes.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.faithit.com/this-guy-writes-a-confession-letter-to-his-down-syndrome-daughter-that-will-break-your-heart-in-100-ways/#.Uknf8ixyvL5.facebook
> 
> Find a box of Kleenix before you start the video.


heart felt, soul searching it says it all doesn't it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have a pelt board one that I bought from someone is a craft show with me. It was just painted. Have you seen the old ironing boards that have been painted on?


yes and the folk art on them are beautiful. I have a piece of wood a friend gave me that was brought up from a sunken ship on Lake superior. The lake is so cold that it preserves wood. Haven't carved on it yet. Waiting to see what I see in it first.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you use white pine boards?


Have only once. But so much pitch in wood it ruins knives. But if dried it sure is nice to paint on.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> yes and the folk art on them are beautiful. I have a piece of wood a friend gave me that was brought up from a sunken ship on Lake superior. The lake is so cold that it preserves wood. Haven't carved on it yet. Waiting to see what I see in it first.


Would the wood be soft enough to carve on? That would be neat to have a board with history like that. My aunt has some old wood from my grand parents house. I want dh to make a picture frame out of it. She gave my cousin's the windows out of it. Hope they do something with it instead of just putting it away. Have seen a lot of cute things with old windows.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Would the wood be soft enough to carve on? That would be neat to have a board with history like that. My aunt has some old wood from my grand parents house. I want dh to make a picture frame out of it. She gave my cousin's the windows out of it. Hope they do something with it instead of just putting it away. Have seen a lot of cute things with old windows.


No bumplins its not soft at all. Because of the cold water, they have brought up old logs that arejust like they were cut that year. It is something to think that all is preserved because of the coldness of the lake.
I do hope you make something of the wood to. 
Have seen windows and they are so neat. Why don't you paint a scene on board and place in back of window. Like your barn or road with trees I think that would be neat. If you did it it would be like one was looking out the window. 
I havae a stone from my great great great grandfathers barn. I went to see it a couple of years ago. The farm still has great great great grandfathers last name. The barn was gone but the lady took me up where it was and the foundation was still there.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No bumplins its not soft at all. Because of the cold water, they have brought up old logs that arejust like they were cut that year. It is something to think that all is preserved because of the coldness of the lake.
> I do hope you make something of the wood to.
> Have seen windows and they are so neat. Why don't you paint a scene on board and place in back of window. Like your barn or road with trees I think that would be neat. If you did it it would be like one was looking out the window.
> I havae a stone from my great great great grandfathers barn. I went to see it a couple of years ago. The farm still has great great great grandfathers last name. The barn was gone but the lady took me up where it was and the foundation was still there.


Still have to get it from my aunt. Need to to that before I forget. I was thinking your wood would be hard. What are you going to do with it? Wouldn't it be too hard to carve on?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Ah, yes. Rediscovering treasures. It's getting to the point that when I decide to start a new project I go through my bins. I usually find something I've forgotten that needs finishing (I'm notoriously bad at that...I have PADD (Project Attention Deficit Disorder)), discover yarn that I can already use for a the project, discover previously purchased yarn and pattern for one I'd rather do instead, or become so overwhelmed with what I have I render myself useless and unable to make any decision whatsoever.


I think PADD is going to become a regular part of my vocabulary, makes perfect sense to me


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Of course they like it better the hard way :shock: When i bake fish I just use what ever seasoning I want then put butter and squirt of lemon. The best is grilled that way but I turn it too much and it falls apart. I had some wonderful fried catfish in N. Orleans. It has crunchy crust. My daddy was the best catfish and perch frier. Never been good as him. Crunchy hush puppies. My mother was get so mad at him. He would invite the world to eat and then let her clean up the mess.


I've only had catfish once (in Florida) and thought it was delicious; I've never seen it available up here. While in FL also had stone crab and hubby and I both loved it - thought it was better than our crab legs


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I mostly camp around the Gulf in Texas, AL, and LA. I have gone as far east as the panhandle of Florida to meet up with some friends. Definite beach pattern there. :lol:


Sounds good but does it get cold and stormy over the winter?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> yes that is me if wood it has to be carved. Even had to carve Santa faces on wooden pencils. Give me wood and i go nuts. Kinded of like give me yarn and I go nuts. Wait I am nuts.


 :lol: :thumbup: :roll:


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Yes I made two cowls one for niece and another for DIL out of "Coming up Flowers" (CUF) both in a purple/wine/raspberry mix. I forget the name of the color. They turned out very nice if I do say so myself. I made them on circular needles and one was in stockinette stitch. Liked it the best and the other was with 170 stitches and you k3p3 and it creates a neat pattern. Have used this pattern before with a combo of mohair and a bamboo yarn and liked it. With the CUF yarn it was not as good. Acceptable but not good. I think that pattern is better with non-novelty yarn. The stockinette is a nice background to the flowers.


Cowls would be very pretty and for myself would love the purple/wine/rasperberry colours - or shades of blue


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.faithit.com/this-guy-writes-a-confession-letter-to-his-down-syndrome-daughter-that-will-break-your-heart-in-100-ways/#.Uknf8ixyvL5.facebook
> 
> Find a box of Kleenix before you start the video.


That was lovely Joey. My sil's sister's first child was a Downs baby and she is the sweetest, most gentle person. Even though she didn't keep up academically, she went thru high school and her classmates had a wonderful tribute for her, telling of the many lessons they learned from her.

9 years ago I was approached by a social worker to see if I would teach her client with cerbral palsy and developmental delays to crochet. I'm so grateful I said ok because she has been a wonderful blessing in my life.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> No bumplins its not soft at all. Because of the cold water, they have brought up old logs that arejust like they were cut that year. It is something to think that all is preserved because of the coldness of the lake.
> I do hope you make something of the wood to.
> Have seen windows and they are so neat. Why don't you paint a scene on board and place in back of window. Like your barn or road with trees I think that would be neat. If you did it it would be like one was looking out the window.
> I havae a stone from my great great great grandfathers barn. I went to see it a couple of years ago. The farm still has great great great grandfathers last name. The barn was gone but the lady took me up where it was and the foundation was still there.


I have a great, BIG key from my family home in Sweden - it's been in our family since before the 15th century. I have it framed. If you ever get to Stockholm be sure you see the OLD boat Vasa. There's a Vasa museum. That wooden boat is complete .. It too was preserved from being in the cold Swedish water.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> That was lovely Joey. My sil's sister's first child was a Downs baby and she is the sweetest, most gentle person. Even though she didn't keep up academically, she went thru high school and her classmates had a wonderful tribute for her, telling of the many lessons they learned from her.
> 
> 9 years ago I was approached by a social worker to see if I would teach her client with cerbral palsy and developmental delays to crochet. I'm so grateful I said ok because she has been a wonderful blessing in my life.


 :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Break time Hubby up to cabin painting. Time alone love it House as clean as it is going to get and that mean as good as I feel like doing.
> crock Pot on low brats and krut tonight. Even have a few apples left from tree in yard and used them.
> Almond poppy seed muffin's yet to make.
> Knitting to hearts content.
> ...


Sounds like a great day!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

it is going to be in the 80's today yippee. won't be long before the cold moves in. 

coffee going I am off to have a cup.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> it is going to be in the 80's today yippee. won't be long before the cold moves in.
> 
> coffee going I am off to have a cup.


Thanks for the reminder that I really, really need to get the jacket done for my DIL. If I don't she won't have anything she can wear in the cooler weather.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thanks for the reminder that I really, really need to get the jacket done for my DIL. If I don't she won't have anything she can wear in the cooler weather.


You will finish it I know.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Georgiegirl, I found your pictures, wow!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I've only had catfish once (in Florida) and thought it was delicious; I've never seen it available up here. While in FL also had stone crab and hubby and I both loved it - thought it was better than our crab legs


We have catfish frequently. A week ago we discovered a little catfish cafe. When we initially walked in I didn't have high hopes for a good meal, but I ordered catfish & it & the entire meal was quite yummy. And....the catfish was from Vietnam. Had no idea the U.S. imports it now. I had a cousin visit from Canada & every restaurant we ate at he ordered catfish. Said they don't have it in Canada.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> it is going to be in the 80's today yippee. won't be long before the cold moves in.
> 
> coffee going I am off to have a cup.


80's sounds so nice - we've had really strong winds and lots of rain the last few days. I can see a little blue sky peaking out, but the winds are still really strong. Grateful that we've only had a few short power outages here, just a nuisance that the clocks keep having to be reset


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Georgiegirl said:


> We have catfish frequently. A week ago we discovered a little catfish cafe. When we initially walked in I didn't have high hopes for a good meal, but I ordered catfish & it & the entire meal was quite yummy. And....the catfish was from Vietnam. Had no idea the U.S. imports it now. I had a cousin visit from Canada & every restaurant we ate at he ordered catfish. Said they don't have it in Canada.


I've never seen catfish in the grocery or a restaurant up here. The pet stores do sell little ones and one of our nephews had a couple with the gold fish to help clean up the aquarium

ps - like your avatar Georgie, very pretty. Is it your plant?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> We have catfish frequently. A week ago we discovered a little catfish cafe. When we initially walked in I didn't have high hopes for a good meal, but I ordered catfish & it & the entire meal was quite yummy. And....the catfish was from Vietnam. Had no idea the U.S. imports it now. I had a cousin visit from Canada & every restaurant we ate at he ordered catfish. Said they don't have it in Canada.


I've never eaten catfish, although we used to catch a lot of them. Very tough fighters on the fishing line. The biggest fish I ever almost caught was a "catty." It must have been two feet long! Broke my pole - and it got away. It really was big though. Really.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> 80's sounds so nice - we've had really strong winds and lots of rain the last few days. I can see a little blue sky peaking out, but the winds are still really strong. Grateful that we've only had a few short power outages here, just a nuisance that the clocks keep having to be reset


Sorry about that hope your weather is better tomorrow.

This will be the last one this week rain starting tomorrow night then getting cooler.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never eaten catfish, although we used to catch a lot of them. Very tough fighters on the fishing line. The biggest fish I ever almost caught was a "catty." It must have been two feet long! Broke my pole - and it got away. It really was big though. Really.


They do get big I know that. Have yet to find a good place that serves it with out tasting muddy.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I've never eaten catfish, although we used to catch a lot of them. Very tough fighters on the fishing line. The biggest fish I ever almost caught was a "catty." It must have been two feet long! Broke my pole - and it got away. It really was big though. Really.


not a "fish" story?


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I've never seen catfish in the grocery or a restaurant up here. The pet stores do sell little ones and one of our nephews had a couple with the gold fish to help clean up the aquarium
> 
> ps - like your avatar Georgie, very pretty. Is it your plant?


Lots of catfish available around here - like I said, when my cousin visited Tennessee from Canada he'd order catfish every time we'd eat at a restaurant.

Yes, the red Anthurium is in my kitchen next to a window - gets 
some afternoon sun - just enough. Have always liked them - got hooked on them when I was in Hawaii - when I planted just the green leaves, I had no idea flowers would bloom like this.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I had a bigger fish. We think it was a Muskie, since that lake had Muskies. We had a 14' car topper boat. I had 8# test line and 1" red and white dare devil for a lure. I did give him a good run but lost him in the lily pads after he rammed the boat twice. My husband estimated he was about 5 feet long. This was in the wilds of Canada on Press Lake north of Ignace, Ontario. 43 years ago.
> 
> We do have a 42" 22# Northern Pike on our wall.
> My husband brought about a 6' Northern up to the boat but did not land him. He said what would he do with him if he could have brought him into the boat.


Wow, I'm impressed! We're heading up to Leech Lake on Thursday for an extended weekend (a vacation away from our vacation we took for the wedding) and Leech is a great Muskie lake. Some huge ones to be caught there. Good for Northern, too.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Georgiegirl said:


> Lots of catfish available around here - like I said, when my cousin visited Tennessee from Canada he'd order catfish every time we'd eat at a restaurant.
> 
> Yes, the red Anthurium is in my kitchen next to a window - gets
> some afternoon sun - just enough. Have always liked them - got hooked on them when I was in Hawaii - when I planted just the green leaves, I had no idea flowers would bloom like this.


Happy Halloween Y'All
Don'y you dare laugh at me! My grandkids think I'm the prettiest witch grandmother ever! If you're real nice to me I might ride my broom to your house & pay you a visit Halloween night. Just noticed I'm wearing the red shawl I knitted. And, yes, that's my hair.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> not a "fish" story?


Really not! I've never eaten one, though. Saw them up close too many times, and they're messy in the boat. Not too appetizing for me. I do love fish, though.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

trying to post a picture - didn't work, have to try later.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> 80's sounds so nice - we've had really strong winds and lots of rain the last few days. I can see a little blue sky peaking out, but the winds are still really strong. Grateful that we've only had a few short power outages here, just a nuisance that the clocks keep having to be reset


We have all battery clocks. Don't set the phones with time or day anymore. We are on a small town electric service. A cow can rub against a fence and our power goes out. Ha. It is annoying to lose power. Hope you winds die down soon.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Here is a picture of my three guys at the wedding of our middle son that we attended in Colorado last month. Good looking crew, if I do say so myself.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> trying to post a picture - didn't work, have to try later.


It worked Bonnie. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is a picture of my three guys at the wedding of our middle son that we attended in Colorado last month. Good looking crew, if I do say so myself.


Thumper they are very good looking guys! You are blessed!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Really not! I've never eaten one, though. Saw them up close too many times, and they're messy in the boat. Not too appetizing for me. I do love fish, though.


I figure if I can eat crocodile & kangaroo....well....I can eat just about anything! After that, catfish is a given!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is a picture of my three guys at the wedding of our middle son that we attended in Colorado last month. Good looking crew, if I do say so myself.


Really, really handsome young men (they do look young to me...anyone younger than 50 is a kid to me anymore!) Noticed their ties all matched - suppose they were all part of the wedding party?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is a picture of my three guys at the wedding of our middle son that we attended in Colorado last month. Good looking crew, if I do say so myself.


Indeed - very handsome crop of gentlemen!! I can imagine you smiling while looking at this picture.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=561136237290602&set=vb.348555855215309&type=2&theater


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We have all battery clocks. Don't set the phones with time or day anymore. We are on a small town electric service. A cow can rub against a fence and our power goes out. Ha. It is annoying to lose power. Hope you winds die down soon.


Oh did the cow get electrocuted?? I think that would be dinner is ready.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here is a picture of my three guys at the wedding of our middle son that we attended in Colorado last month. Good looking crew, if I do say so myself.


handsome man there lady. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=561136237290602&set=vb.348555855215309&type=2&theater


Oh just lovely CB just lovely thanks for sharing it.


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