# #30 CLOSED Let's learn to read a knitted Pattern & make a Child's cardigan - Darowil



## Designer1234

Welcome to this workshop with darowil.

*GUIDELINES FOR THIS WORKSHOP*

 PLEASE ALWAYS start reading at the beginning of this workshop, even if you join in late. 
_This is important as sometimes corrections are made or there are additions to the information. If you are starting the class, even after the starting date,
make sure you read from page 1_.

#1-* Once you have posted on this topic, a notification will be sent to you by email each time there is a post to the workshop as long as you are subscribed to our Section*. If you are not sure - click on 'my profile' at the top of any KP page and click on sections and *subscribe* to "Knitting and Crochet Workshops with Designer1234"

#2-*PLEASE do not post links or information without pm ing the teacher*. Often information is given which is different than the information presented by the teacher. the internet has hundreds of different ways to do things. These workshops are set up so that the teacher teaches a specific way of doing things. This is very important.

#3- Let the teacher answer questions his or her answer for this specific class could be different than yours. It is only courtesy when the teacher is volunteering the time to present to allow the teacher to answer the questions themselves.

#4 - Please don't give individual links to the workshops - we ask that you give only the following link to reach all our 
topics 
http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-105-1.html

We hope you enjoy our workshops and we try very hard to keep them readable and the lessons clearly explained. 
We will be deleting non essential posts after a couple of days, in order that the information be clear.

All our closed workshops are kept permanently on the above link for future referral by KP members.

Welcome to you all,

Designer1234, prismaticr, and nrc1940 Workshop monitors.

-----------
I am so pleased to introduce darowil your teacher ( who, by the way, has taught 3 workshops for us this past year).

Welcome Darowil!
================================================


----------



## darowil

Well I am here. But not functioning too well as I have a migraine which started this morning.
Welcome all. I will pots the link to the pattern and some information I have on abbreviations. And some general infomation but that will be all for now. I will look back in a few hours and see if any questions have been raised yet.

*ABBREVIATIONS*

Most patterns will have a list of abbreviations
. 
The trick can be finding the abbreviations.

Most books will have a list of abbreviations either near the back or the front.

It is important to check the abbreviations list as well in case there is something you dont know. _If the pattern has a special abbreviation applicable to only that pattern it will sometimes be in the actual pattern_
.
Individual patterns should have the abbreviations included in them (and some will assume you know the basic abbreviations)._ At least one on line pattern source provides special abbreviations with the pattern and a link to the normal abbreviations for those who need them_
. 
So always have a very good look for abbreviations before asking how to do something.

_The abbreviations should include how to do the stitch if it is something unusual_. eg. k or p are not going to say anymore than knit or purl as it is assumed that everyone can do these (otherwise you would not be trying to follow a pattern.

However - skkp will probably tell you how to do it.

A common abbreviation in English patterns is[u ]psso and this could well be simply written out- it stands for pass slipped stitch over which is self-explanatory _(it will have been preceded by something like sl1 k1. So sl1 k1 psso is slip 1, knit 1, pass slipped stitch over the knitted stitch_. This with a little thought is self explanatory- and so I will not be explaining how to do this in the workshop. And in fact this is one of the decreases used in the pattern

*http://www.knittinghelp.com/videos/knitting-glossary This link was posted on KP recently with many of the common abbreviations- and for the less clear ones a video in both English and Continental*.


----------



## darowil

*HERE IS YOUR PATTERN LINK*

*http://media.knittingfever.com/kfi/catalog/pattern/pdf/120420/Bradley.pdf*

As you see with my cardigan you do not need to do the deer.

I ask that unless you are confident with colour work that you don't do them (or at least if you do that you either PM me questions (which I may be able to answer, but while I can and do this type of thing I am do not consider myself experienced n this) or ask them on KP

. I will not be answering questions here about the deer as this is a workshop on reading patterns not colour work or reading charts.

The reason I used this pattern was that I was looking for a basic cardigan pattern that was free and online and that the gave the very undetailed instructions for the right front-Work as for left front, reverse all shapings

. I know these are horrid instructions but this way you get to work out with help how to do for your self.


----------



## darowil

This is a repeat for the infomation in the introduction to the workshop, so those of you who have already read this can skip it if you want. But for the rest I suggest you look at it although some of the information is in the pattern.

Hi all.
As Shirley says this is a different concept- I will be helping you learn to read the pattern, I WILL NOT BE TELLING YOU HOW TO KNIT IT. It is important that you all realize this you will need to be prepared to work out for yourself how to do the knitting. I will not be spoon feeding you- you are learning how to read a pattern and while you will end up with a cardigan at the end of it that is not the goal! In fact if you work all the way through you will end up with two cardigans.

I will provide the information that you need to help you work out what to do- some I know I will need but others you may need to wait for as I search it out to.

As much as possible I will be using al the terms commonly used (usually two) so when you see something like gauge/tension it is two terms that mean the same.
Australians one of the few ways I wont do this is with the term yarn (while we use wool generically it is very confusing when wool is also a fiber and as there is a perfectly acceptable and understandable term I will use it). Another exception is I will use the term ball- this will mean whatever your yarn comes in hank, skein etc as these too vary.
And as this is a work it out for yourselves when I get asked a question that has been addressed I will refer you back to where I have already addressed it!

*REQUIRMENTS*
The pattern provides 3 sizes (I suggest that unless you are knitting it a certain size with someone in mind that you do size 2 or 3, simply because it means learning how to look slightly further to work out how many stitches to work etc and hence another skill learnt).
5-6 years 66cm chest MC 2 balls CC 1 ball
7-8 years 71cm chest MC 2 balls CC 1 ball
9-10 years 76cms. MC 3 balls CC 1 ball
(MC=main colour, CC=contrast colour)
So the first link for many of you is a convertor to work out the size you need to knit. http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html

*MATERIALS*
Ella Rae Amity Heathers. This is a discontinued yarn but it is a 10 ply/Worsted/Aran. http://www.craftyarncouncil.com/weight.html this shows you the different yarn weight sin different countries (which I have told you here but it very helpful all the same).

You will therefore need to find a yarn that gives you the same gauge/tension.
Australian knitters (and probably New Zealanders as well) 10ply is not common over here. I have used 8 ply for mine and worked it to gauge for the 8 ply NOT the pattern or it would be too loose. This simply means that the cardigan turns out smaller. Use your gauge swatch to also determine what size it will work out for you. Of course if you want to do it in 10 ply you can always get some. The only place I am aware of that routinely sells 10ply is Bendigo http://www.bendigowoollenmills.com.au .

*NEEDLES*
1 pair 4.5mm needles
1 pair 5.00mm needles
(for 8 ply 3.5 and 4.00mm)
the crafty Yarn Council site above has a number of other areas including needle sizes. However I like this site because it includes the old sizes as well and many of us still have old needles http://www.fibergypsy.com/common/needles.shtml 
This site also has a number of other useful links so both are worth having a good look through.
*GAUGE/TENSION*
18 stitches and 24 rows measured over 10cm of stocking stitch using 5.00mm needles. (or if using 8 ply as per ball band)

And 6 buttons are also required.

For the more experienced knitters this pattern actually includes deer in the CC section (worked in the MC)- so those who are confident may like to do this- but I have NOT done them (as you see) and while I do do this type of work I am not experienced in it. I also don't want questions on this asked in the workshop- it could confuse the less experienced knitters and the emphasis is on learning to read a pattern. I will be telling people simply to work the pattern rows in the CC as I have done. But those confident to do so are welcome to do the deer independently. 
BTW colour work is a great way to get used to the concepts behind using charts to knit from- you understand the basics then when you try to do lace work etc.

*SWATCH*
For those who dont know how to do a swatch here are some links on swatching. 
http://knitty.com/ISSUEspring03/FEATswatchout.html

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-knit-a-gauge-swatch.seriesId-108963.html 
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-measure-a-gauge-swatch.seriesId-108963.html


----------



## darowil

Well I am now off for a rest. I will return later this evenin gour time (but as it is 3.15pm here and about 1.45am EST most questions will come while I am sleeping. If my migraine allows it I will be out tomorrow morning so will probably not be back until Tuesday night (for most of you) after that. Unless I am up early enough tomorrow morning which I will try to do for this week.


----------



## Designer1234

Designer here, everyone. As Darowil is down with a very bad migraine headache. I would request that you print (if possible) or copy the information that she has given you - read it thoroughly and read all the links.

this is a new concept in our workshops. It is to enable you to use different tools to read a pattern. We therefore will expect you to do most of the work. She will be available to answer your queries once a day. Write down your questions as you work through the pattern, and if possible put them in one post so that when she is awake and available, she can answer them all at once. Please make sure that the answers are NOT in the information links etc. that she has given you. you will be asked to try to work out the problems from the great information she has given you. Take one thing at a time. Some of you have done patterns before, others are brand new so we will help you to find the different information so that you can figure out your pattern.

Remember, she is in Australia and it is night time there for a goodly portion of our awake time. We have not had a problem with teachers in different time zones, it just means that we have to wait a bit for answers in some cases.

read the information and you will find the answers to questions you might have about the pattern.

*I would suggest you put the information into a folder for future 
referral. It might also be a good idea to actually copy some of the information into the fold so that it is available for referral without having to look it up. This class is a learning tool. We don't walk you through the pattern, we help you find the answers to what you are reading. Have fun with this - and you will find pattern reading much easier in the future.

We also have an 'information page' on our workshop main page (click on the workshop address at the top of the page and it will take you to the main section page) read the information there - it is varied and some of it is to do with our workshop. There is a wealth of information which has been given to us by KP members and it is worth printing and putting in your folder for future use. Many excellent link and written information.

Designer*


----------



## jmai5421

Thanks Shirley and Darowil. Hoping your migraine is better soon. I have never had one but my sister does. It wipes her out. I am off to begin my sweater.
I do like the deer idea and wonder if the information I got from Donmaur's workshop on color knitting will work.
I might make a second one and try it.


----------



## Designer1234

jmai5421 said:


> Thanks Shirley and Darowil. Hoping your migraine is better soon. I have never had one but my sister does. It wipes her out. I am off to begin my sweater.
> I do like the deer idea and wonder if the information I got from Donmaur's workshop on color knitting will work.
> I might make a second one and try it.


I am answering this one as I think donmaurs workshop will definitely help you do the deer on this sweater for those who wish to add it on their second sweater. 
*I can't stress enough that you should open a folder or notebook with the information given on this type of workshop*. Keep all your information links, and workshop links and other information in this folder. (Ask me how I know) I had to copy mine because i had used it so much.

the color workshop is outstanding and I know it would help you once you have completed this one , to make the sweater with the deer on it.

As darowil mentioned, she is not 'teaching ' the sweater. she is trying to help you learn to read patterns by referring to the information she has given you. She wants you to figure it out for yourself and if you are really stuck, she will give you a hand.


----------



## Supreya

Sorry to hear about the migraine Darowil. 
Hope you are feeling better soon.

I am reading the pattern. 
Left front - it says cast on36 (40 44) stitches 
RS *K2 p2 rep from * to end
WS *K2 p2 rep from * to end

? Should the WS row read WS *P2 K2 rep from * to end or am I not reading it correctly?
Thanks


----------



## nrc1940

Since Darowil is suffering with a Migraine I'll try to answer your questions. I think the directions given are correct. You can verify for yourself. On a piece of paper place 2 tick marks for the first k2, 2 tick marks for the p2--and repeat until you have 36 marks. It ends with a p2. When you turn your work you will k2, which will be correct. Does that make sense?



Supreya said:


> Sorry to hear about the migraine Darowil.
> Hope you are feeling better soon.
> 
> I am reading the pattern.
> Left front - it says cast on36 (40 44) stitches
> RS *K2 p2 rep from * to end
> WS *K2 p2 rep from * to end
> 
> ? Should the WS row read WS *P2 K2 rep from * to end or am I not reading it correctly?
> Thanks


----------



## Designer1234

nrc1940 said:


> Since Darowil is suffering with a Migraine I'll try to answer your questions. I think the directions given are correct. You can verify for yourself. On a piece of paper place 2 tick marks for the first k2, 2 tick marks for the p2--and repeat until you have 36 marks. It ends with a p2. When you turn your work you will k2, which will be correct. Does that make sense?


*I would like to introduce Nadene (nrc1940) who is one of our Managers and will be here to help you until darowil is able to come back*. remember ladies the idea is for you all to do most of the work! grin. It is important however that you read the information Darowil posted as to how to figure out patterns yourself.

She is such a help to me with the workshops and is a wonderful knitter.


----------



## Supreya

Thanks for responding nrc 1940. 
Unfortunately it is not making sense to me. I thought the pattern was for a rib at the cast on edge of the front, and would be the same order of stitches as used on the back, so as to create ribs.
I will sleep and look again tomorrow. Sorry I am misunderstanding.


----------



## nrc1940

Think of it this way: if the last 2 stitches of the first pass are purled, then when you turn to work the next row, those first two stitches would need to be KNIT to make the ribbing.

Also, verify for the back: place tick marks across the 74 sts. (pairs of 2 for each knit st. and 2 for each purl st.) you end with k2. When you turn your work, those first 2 sts will need to be PURLED to make the ribbing.


Supreya said:


> Thanks for responding nrc 1940.
> Unfortunately it is not making sense to me. I thought the pattern was for a rib at the cast on edge of the front, and would be the same order of stitches as used on the back, so as to create ribs.
> I will sleep and look again tomorrow. Sorry I am misunderstanding.


----------



## Bobglory

Feel better soon Darowil. Migraines are awful. Please take care of yourself.

Gigi


----------



## unie

My Great Grandsons are all too small, but they will grow .


----------



## nrc1940

Marilyn40, once you post a message to this workshop, it automatically sends you any new posted messages. You'll need to go back to page 1 and read through all the instructions from Designer1234 and from Darowil. You'll find the information you need about needed yarn and supplies, as well as the link to the pattern. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to post a question.



Marilyn40 said:


> I'M IN. (how will I know I am In?) Marilyn40


----------



## darowil

Supreya said:


> Sorry to hear about the migraine Darowil.
> Hope you are feeling better soon.
> 
> I am reading the pattern.
> Left front - it says cast on36 (40 44) stitches
> RS *K2 p2 rep from * to end
> WS *K2 p2 rep from * to end
> 
> ? Should the WS row read WS *P2 K2 rep from * to end or am I not reading it correctly?
> Thanks


The cardigan above was the smallest size done to the pattern and I found no mistakes to it. Another reason for using this one.
I am currently worksing the second size -albiet with a pattern in it which requires a few adjustments.

KNITTING PUNCTUATION
I will find and post something I had prepared for the next cardigan but which is equally valid.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-follow-written-stitch-patterns-in-knitting.seriesId-108963.html for this pattern this link provides some basic information about the puncuation etc used in knitting and how important it can be to understand it.

*this is not the rib for this cardigan but the next cardigan* however the principle of reading is what you need to learn from this. And read it in conjunction with the link above.
These rib instructions are all the same I am simply showing you three different ways you may find the same thing written. Look at these with the punctuation link above to see how they all work to give the same result.
Rib row 1 k2 (p1 k1) rep to last stitch, k1
Rib row 2 (p1 k1) rep to end of row

Rib row 1 k1 *k1 p1 rep from * to last stitch k1. 
Rib row 2 *p1 k1 rep from * to end of row

Rib row 1 k1 *k1 p1 to last stitch k1. .
Rib row 2 *p1 k1 to end of row

Supreya if you read this information you should be able to work out what your problem is (I can see what you have done wrong if what you have copied is what you are trying to do).


----------



## darowil

That was easy to deal with today- as the only real question was one I was already prepared for even though I had managed to not register it was also an issue here!
Only just got up so not sure how I feel. I've something on this morning htat I keep missing- 2 out the last 4 weeks I have headed there and got a migraine on the way then last week my daughter who gets them too got one while we were there so I needed to leave early. So will try and go and just not be very alert or helpful. Then have a relaxing afternoon before going out for Indian food with my family for a brothers birthday.
I will pop in here again later this afternoon and just before I go to bed to try and catch any more questions.


----------



## Supreya

Thankyou for your answer Darowil


----------



## Bubba24

Does anyone know how to enlarge the pattern? When I print it out it the writing is so small I can't see it too easily.

Thanks....Fran


----------



## unie

II tried to enlarge,but no luck!  Got out the magnifying glass>lol!


----------



## darowil

I can enlarge it on the screen but not for printing so I'm no help here either. My copy when I didn't decrease the quality of ht eprint is easier to read- to if you have done this as well using a better quality print setting may help. It doesn't change the size but as it is a bit darker it shows up better.


----------



## darowil

Supreya said:


> Thankyou for your answer Darowil


Have you managed to work out your problem yet? If not try a magnifying glass or similar! You might be missing something important. This from reading the next few posts.


----------



## Diane D

struggling to read the pattern as its so small. does anyone have the link to the site where the pattern is so that we can try and get a larger print please?


----------



## darowil

http://www.knittingfever.com/c/freepatterns/ this is the site I got it from- but can't work out how it will help. If you can please post for others.
Probably the best bet is to photcopy it and enlarge it.
As I said I can enlarge it on my computer so I could read a bigger version on my computer.


----------



## Diane D

http://www.knittingfever.com/c/leaflet/12997/ here is the pdf version but its also light.....


----------



## darowil

STRIPES
where the pattern says to work the 19 rows of the pattern simply continue to work these in the CC that you are already using.

I suggest that when you get to the sleeves if you want the stripes to match the back and front that you work out how many rows you will need to do to get them to match. Following the patterns suggested positioning of the sleeve CC section put it in the wrong palce. I added 2 rows of CC and 2 extra rows of the MC before the armhole shaping- and still had it slightly shorter than the pattern said. So once you have your back finished count how many extra rows you will need for the sleeve length and add this before you start the CC- rather than starting it at the point the pattern says.


----------



## Designer1234

*There are now 46 people signed in* - don't delete


----------



## darowil

Welcome to all of those of you who are still joining.

I'm feeling better now- so will see you all tomorrow bright eyed and bushy tailed!
But for now I am off to sleep- as it is 1230 am.


----------



## jmai5421

Glad you are feeling better Darowil. I am already 6cm up the back. Had to dig out a ruler with cm. All of our newer rulers, tape measures etc have both systems. My very, very old rulers do not. I like the newer ones. Off to finish the back or knit for awhile. Just returned from the gym and ready to knit or clean, hummmmm! I think knit.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Glad you are feeling better Darowil. I am already 6cm up the back. Had to dig out a ruler with cm. All of our newer rulers, tape measures etc have both systems. My very, very old rulers do not. I like the newer ones. Off to finish the back or knit for awhile. Just returned from the gym and ready to knit or clean, hummmmm! I think knit.


good to hear of the progress.
tape measures with both are so useful-I still have a few old patterns in inchs and of course with the internet now being able to use both is so helpful. And I worked in the old system long enough to be able to work in either which is really useful.


----------



## prismaticr

A little late to the party. .. but better late than never. ... been dealing with hubby new eyes. ..
That said, as it is very late here. .. in the morning I will work my magic and try and post the pattern in a larger print for easier reading. .. should I be unsuccessful I will just delete all of this. ..


----------



## Diane D

Busy rewriting the pattern for myself as i go along as its very very faint. So progress will be slow this end...


----------



## jmai5421

prismaticr said:


> A little late to the party. .. but better late than never. ... been dealing with hubby new eyes. ..
> That said, as it is very late here. .. in the morning I will work my magic and try and post the pattern in a larger print for easier reading. .. should I be unsuccessful I will just delete all of this. ..


Thanks, that would help.


----------



## lkb850

I have used "select" tool and copied part of the pattern from the PDF. I then paste it to a "word" document. It comes onto the word document as a picture that I can enlarge. I have to do it several times to get the whole pattern, which takes up five pages, but at least I can read it without magnifying glass.


----------



## prismaticr

Pursuant to my earlier post, I have worked my magic and added the TEXT ONLY portion of the posted patern to the original post on PAGE 1 as a download. This is a word doc and thus can be resized for text as you desire. I have sized it up pretty big. AGAIN THIS IS THE TEXT ONLY. Please refer to the original posted pattern for graphs and other images.

Additionally, as this was a bit of a challenge, i have read through each line and attempted to make sure the text was exactly as the posted pattern stated. If you find an error, please let me know and I will fix it.

Have fun...


----------



## marchar

Thanks for the text portion of the pattern. What a world of difference when I can read it!!!


----------



## Karzie

Thank you for working your magic here!

Karen


----------



## darowil

prismaticr said:


> Pursuant to my earlier post, I have worked my magic and added the TEXT ONLY portion of the posted patern to the original post on PAGE 1 as a download. This is a word doc and thus can be resized for text as you desire. I have sized it up pretty big. AGAIN THIS IS THE TEXT ONLY. Please refer to the original posted pattern for graphs and other images.
> 
> Additionally, as this was a bit of a challenge, i have read through each line and attempted to make sure the text was exactly as the posted pattern stated. If you find an error, please let me know and I will fix it.
> 
> Have fun...


Thanks for doing that- I would have had no idea how to go about it. That seems to have been the biggest problem most people have encountered so far so good to have that one dealt with.

And most of you won't be doing the deer part anyway and so the chart is not needed.

I will try and look through the pattern later today but I am out most of the day. Going out soon to visit a KPer who lives about an hour away in a small town on our major river. 3 of us were meant to be going together but things have cropped up for these 2 unfortunatelly. 2 others are planning on coming as well but from other directions and so we are all going separately. And then to my daughters for tea tonight.


----------



## unie

Did one swatch ..got it drying with fingers crossed( hoping it's right!


----------



## darowil

HAve only just got home after over 10 hours out so will not be looking at the pattern today to check it! And not much time over the weekend so not sure when I will get that done. But I will be popping in and out of here so any issues post them. 
I would anticipate that most people will probably be OK for the back and the first real issues for most of you may be once the neck shaping begins on the front. And especially with the right front.
Those who are still not sure how confident they feel could leave that until after the sleeves if they want. The right front will be the hardest part as it involves working out how to reverse the pattern from the left front. And that could be interesting for me too- I'm not sure how I go about helping people work out for themselves what to do without actually spelling it out- and I don't want to do that as I don't want those who come to the workshop later to have the answer there. But I'm sure I will work out something.


----------



## jmai5421

Thanks Darowil. I guess I read your thoughts because I am done with the back and decided to do the sleeves next. They looked the easiest. I am ready to do the 10 rows and then the next and last increase for one of the sleeves. I am making the smallest size.
I am anxious to see postings of the colors everyone is using. That is the hardest part for me. Mine is all one color-camouflage.


----------



## Diane D

Back is done. Front is done up to the arms.... So far so good...


----------



## unie

Wow!!You ladies are fast... I can see that I'm going to be the "cow's tail" on this project.


----------



## Diane D

HAHA fronts are done. Starting arms...


----------



## darowil

Diane D said:


> HAHA fronts are done. Starting arms...


Well done- having got the fronts done you should go forward quickly from here. 
Better get to work on the next one- I won't have it finished! Been trying to finish off too many things with deadlines. But enough knitted to show it. 
So will post the variation on the theme on Monday (with a photo of what I have finished). This variation uses the same pattern but I have a simple pattern to add into it (but it is much slower and uses more yarn- but I can't say how much as I don't have it finished!). It's taken me a lot longer to knit than I expected.
But the purpose of this is to help you work how to add a pattern into a basic pattern like this one. And this gives a huge range of options as to what you can do with your knitting.
When my girls were little I used the same basic jumper and cardigan patterns and just used a different pattern from the stitch dictionarys I had to make them all different. I have a book that gives basic patterns in each of our major weight yarns for all childrens sizes and these got a huge amount of use. I have them for babies, men and women also.


----------



## Designer1234

prismaticr said:


> Pursuant to my earlier post, I have worked my magic and added the TEXT ONLY portion of the posted patern to the original post on PAGE 1 as a download. This is a word doc and thus can be resized for text as you desire. I have sized it up pretty big. AGAIN THIS IS THE TEXT ONLY. Please refer to the original posted pattern for graphs and other images.
> 
> Additionally, as this was a bit of a challenge, i have read through each line and attempted to make sure the text was exactly as the posted pattern stated. If you find an error, please let me know and I will fix it.
> 
> Have fun...


Our Rachel is so good with computers. We couldn't manage without her . I am able to do basics but something like this problem - you notice I disappeared into the woodwork!! grin. Designer


----------



## jmai5421

Diane D said:


> HAHA fronts are done. Starting arms...


Wow! You knit fast. Love your sweater. I just finished the first sleeve after the back.


----------



## Diane D

oh dear, my son has grown overnight and now i have to make it longer grrrr what will be easier - pilling out till sleeve shaping or making the ribbing longer  any ideas??


----------



## Diane D

i have just noticed something when fitting my son. 

The back is 82 sts and 
the 2 fronts of 44 sts = 88
then the button bands need to be added.

So in other words, the front is much bigger than the back?? Is someone else noticing this or am i wrong???


----------



## unie

I haven't gotten that far,but thanks for telling us . I will wait for the answer.


----------



## darowil

Diane D said:


> oh dear, my son has grown overnight and now i have to make it longer grrrr what will be easier - pilling out till sleeve shaping or making the ribbing longer  any ideas??


They really shouldn't grow should they?
You can't undo the cast on edge. Therefore if you want to make the rib longer you either pick up the stiches- and this will leave you with a clear ridge where you have done this or cut above the current ribbing. I have never done this, but it involves picking up the stiches on two rows close together (use smaller needles), knitting and then joining back up. If you really want to go this route we can help.

At this stage I would be inclined to frog the armholes and add some extra length to the body that way . It would be different if you had already finished the whole thing. But I also think it would look best- and probably as quick.


----------



## darowil

Diane D said:


> i have just noticed something when fitting my son.
> 
> The back is 82 sts and
> the 2 fronts of 44 sts = 88
> then the button bands need to be added.
> 
> So in other words, the front is much bigger than the back?? Is someone else noticing this or am i wrong???


Well I've just had a good look at mine- and although as you say the maths make it bigger it doesn't look wrong sewn up.
I have also looked up the patterns that I used all through my girls childhoods and the fronts there are also slightly bigger (though I do agree that the largest size seems excessive). But it would be to get the 2x2 rib right and the shaping for the armholes even. 
While the one I knitted has not been on a child it does look fine.

Did you remember to increase 2 stitches on the last back rib row (only for the 2nd and 3rd sizes for others looking at this)? While it is still bigger it does help even it out a little.


----------



## Diane D

yes i increased the last row...


----------



## darowil

Diane D said:


> yes i increased the last row...


Good. I don't know why th epattern has such a big difference in the stich counts, but it looks fine in the smallest size.


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Good. I don't know why th epattern has such a big difference in the stich counts, but it looks fine in the smallest size.


Good, I am making the smallest size. I just finished the sleeves. Ready to start the fronts. My first one is kind of a trial and is all one color. I am donating it to the church charity sale.


----------



## jmai5421

I am on the second front. I need to reverse the directions. I would cast off on the purl side for both the arm and the neck, right? But when I decrease for the sleeve would I do it on the purl side or the knit side? am I on the right track? At the moment I am about half way up the front but realize it is in the middle of the night for you so I thought I would ask now.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I am on the second front. I need to reverse the directions. I would cast off on the purl side for both the arm and the neck, right? But when I decrease for the sleeve would I do it on the purl side or the knit side? am I on the right track? At the moment I am about half way up the front but realize it is in the middle of the night for you so I thought I would ask now.


Correct for the cast off. Decrease on the knit rows- basically match it as closly to the other one as you can. But as you know by now I'm going to say that it doesn't matter too much anyway as long as you are consistent (and of course some fudging is always allowed).

Must get the change to the pattern up soon as you will soon be there assuming you go on to the next part I have planned. Today or tomorrow I will post it. Unfortunatelly the cardigan will be unfinished for posting! But enough is doen to show what I am wanting you to all try.


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Correct for the cast off. Decrease on the knit rows- basically match it as closly to the other one as you can. But as you know by now I'm going to say that it doesn't matter too much anyway as long as you are consistent (and of course some fudging is always allowed).
> 
> Must get the change to the pattern up soon as you will soon be there assuming you go on to the next part I have planned. Today or tomorrow I will post it. Unfortunatelly the cardigan will be unfinished for posting! But enough is doen to show what I am wanting you to all try.


I misworded that. I am done with the sleeves. On the arm(not the sleeve) side of the reversed front do I decrease on the purl side or knit. I am thinking that it would be on the knit to match the first front. So I would decrease at the end of the knit row-s1, k1, psso?


----------



## jmai5421

Sweater done except collar and bands. I am blocking it now and will finish tomorrow and post. I am anxious to see what colors everyone else are using. I have enough yarn left over to make a hat.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Sweater done except collar and bands. I am blocking it now and will finish tomorrow and post. I am anxious to see what colors everyone else are using. I have enough yarn left over to make a hat.


Well done-I had better get a move on hadn't I? First thing tomorrow my time I will put what I have up. (its just after 5pm here now).


----------



## darowil

Well tomorrow- maybe not quite first thing!

As promised finally I am posting a half knitted cardigan and the pattern changes.

CARDIGAN TWO

This cardigan is using the same pattern as before but is to help you learn to adapt a basic pattern and provide some new pattern reading and working skills.
You use the original pattern but simply make the changes I have provided here. I am not putting them altogether in one pattern so that you can learn by doing it yourself (and it is a copyrighted pattern anyway).
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-follow-written-stitch-patterns-in-knitting.seriesId-108963.html this link provides some basic information about the punctuation etc used in knitting and how important it can be to understand it. 
Some of this information I posted earlier but it wont harm to repeat it.

*Pattern* (2+1)
Row 1 (WS) knit
Row 2 (RS) (p1 k1b) rep to last stitch p1.

Extra Abbreviation
K1b- knit 1 below. Instead of putting the needle in the next stitch to be knitted put it under the stitch (in this pattern it is easy to see where to put it as you have a purl stitch and by knitting under the bar you will have it looking like a knit once it gets to the right needle) and work as normal for a knit- you will have the bar and the original stitch to slip off the left needle.

(2+1) or other similar ways of writing it indicates the pattern repeat. So if you see this in a pattern (or see people talking of pattern repeats) this refers to the number of stitches per pattern repeat (2 in this pattern). So you do any combination of 2. The +1 means you add one stitch to this first total. So if you did 10 repeats you would have 20 stitches plus 1=21. The first number is multiplied by the number of repeats you want but the second number is only counted once. So a pattern repeat of 13+2 would need 28 stitches to do 2 repeats; 13x2+2=28

*BACK *
Cast on an odd number of stitches- doesnt matter whether you go up one stitch or down one stitch to what the pattern says (dont worry one stitch really wont matter).
These rib instructions are all the same I am simply showing you three different ways you may find the same thing written. Look at these with the punctuation link above to see how they all work to give the same result.
Rib row 1 k2 (p1 k1) rep to last stitch, k1
Rib row 2 (p1 k1) rep to end of row

Rib row 1 k1 *k1 p1 rep from * to last stitch k1. 
Rib row 2 *p1 k1 rep from * to end of row

Rib row 1 k1 *k1 p1 to last stitch k1. .
Rib row 2 *p1 k1 to end of row

Rib for 4 cm finishing with a RS row. 
Then begin the pattern and work the cardigan pattern as directed (omitting the colour changes).
Armhole shaping
Work as the pattern says finishing with one extra or less stitch than the pattern says depending on whether or not you have added or subtracted one stitch in your cast on).
Maintain the pattern as established while doing the armhole shaping.

Do the shaping on the RS row
For the WS rows p4, knit to last 4 stitches, p4. (normally for this armhole you would only do p3 but p4 works better for this stitch pattern).

*LEFT FRONT.*
Cast on required number of stitches and work as for back. (Again with one more or less- in view of the largish difference in stitch counts between the front and back I would be inclined to suggest going down one stitch)

For the neck castoff cast off one more or less stitch, depending on whether you added or removed one stitch in your original cast on.

For the fronts on one I simplu slipped the last stitch of each row and for the other I din't- guess which one! As you see it does look it will go OK once I put the band on, but I suggest slipping the last stitch (I had a reason for slipping the last rather than the first but I can't remember it now! But I tried both before settling on the last). As this is not an important cardigan- knitted only for this workshop I will just leave it as it is.

*SLEEVES*
Cast on one extra stitch for each size and then omit the increase on the last rib row.

For the increases I have simply done a kfb in the first and last stitch. It is not as neat but will end up in the seam and it enables the pattern to be easily added in .

*BANDS.*
I intend doing a neckband only, not the high collar as in the original pattern this will also require a few less stitches on the front bands.


----------



## darowil

This pattern does take longer to do than stocking/stockinette stitch and uses more yarn. I've taken it downstairs so will check the anticipated yardage and post later.
But I choose this becuase it is fairly easy pattern to keep on eye on while decreasing to enable you to maintain the pattern.

The biggest problem I had with it was frogging and tinking! It is hard to tell what you shuld be picking up. I suggest that you knit a small section first and practise frogging and tinking! Ask and I will try to help you work out the best way to frog.


----------



## darowil

Other than jmai5421 I haven' t heard from anyone for a while- is that because you are plodding along without problems? or am I speaking to an almost void?


----------



## jmai5421

I like the pattern stitch. I will try it. I also like the idea of a shorter collar. I am anxious to see yours. Also the front on the right looks smoother for picking up stitches for the band. Is that the one that you slipped the last stitch?
I put mine together per pattern and am ready to pick up stitches for the collar. There was another post and thread about picking up stitches. They divided the garment and the # of stitches to make everything even when you pick up stitches. Is this the way you suggest or is there another easier way?


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I like the pattern stitch. I will try it. I also like the idea of a shorter collar. I am anxious to see yours. Also the front on the right looks smoother for picking up stitches for the band. Is that the one that you slipped the last stitch?
> I put mine together per pattern and am ready to pick up stitches for the collar. There was another post and thread about picking up stitches. They divided the garment and the # of stitches to make everything even when you pick up stitches. Is this the way you suggest or is there another easier way?


Same way- I saw the post and meant to bookmark it so I could post when I was asked- but didn't! So if you happen to have bookmarked it would you like to post it for me?
Almost finished the next sleeve. But still have the biggest piece to go (but then again it is the easiest. Which was why when I realised I would not have time to get it finished I figured I would do the ones that needed more work first so I had done the difficult pieces.)


----------



## jmai5421

The post is First Time Knitting a Button Band. I searched in my watched topics. How do I post it for you. I tried to find the link to send to you. Do you know where it is located? Maybe if you tried search for the title. Sorry I can't help much when it comes to computers.


----------



## unie

darowil said:


> Other than jmai5421 I haven' t heard from anyone for a while- is that because you are plodding along without problems? or am I speaking to an almost void?


LOL! I am plodding along and reading answers.  DD and Grandson were here for a few days,so didn't get much done.
So far, no questions here... Keeping fingers crossed!

:roll:


----------



## Supreya

I am sewing in sleeves, and almost ready to do button bands and collar


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> The post is First Time Knitting a Button Band. I searched in my watched topics. How do I post it for you. I tried to find the link to send to you. Do you know where it is located? Maybe if you tried search for the title. Sorry I can't help much when it comes to computers.


Thanks, easy to find that way so here is the link http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-182242-1.html 
And to post links you simply click the address in the address bar soit is highlighted, then copy, go into the post you are on and then paste it. Simply use the same commands as for a normal cut or copy and paste within a document- the copy remains through as many documnets as you want (it disappears when you do the next cut or copy)


----------



## darowil

Good to know that others are coming on- unfortunately we have other things to do than just knit. As evidenced by my not getting the second cardigan done. Second sleeve finished last night so about to begin the back.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I like the pattern stitch. I will try it. I also like the idea of a shorter collar. I am anxious to see yours. Also the front on the right looks smoother for picking up stitches for the band. Is that the one that you slipped the last stitch?
> I put mine together per pattern and am ready to pick up stitches for the collar. There was another post and thread about picking up stitches. They divided the garment and the # of stitches to make everything even when you pick up stitches. Is this the way you suggest or is there another easier way?


Realised later that I forgot to answer your question about the fronts- yes the neater one was the slipped one. I often don't slip my first stitch, but when the edge sttich is the k1b row it stretches as you see- I did the same stitch on another item at the same time and the edges that finish with the plain knits and purls doesn't stretch even though I didn't slip these end stitches. So if you don't like slipping end sttiches just do it when you have a k1b at the end. Simply working the edge stich as a stocking stitch should also work rather than as a k1b would be another option.


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Good to know that others are coming on- unfortunately we have other things to do than just knit. As evidenced by my not getting the second cardigan done. Second sleeve finished last night so about to begin the back.


My husband had a heart attack April 30. He can't drive yet so I have lots of time to knit in waiting rooms. He is doing fine but still has lots of doctor, therapy and rehabilitation appointments. The house and everything else has been neglected. I am getting lots of knitting done.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> My husband had a heart attack April 30. He can't drive yet so I have lots of time to knit in waiting rooms. He is doing fine but still has lots of doctor, therapy and rehabilitation appointments. The house and everything else has been neglected. I am getting lots of knitting done.


Husbands and knitting are much more important than housework! Glad he is doing well. There is a silver lining to every cloud as they say (sometimes it can be hard to find and only later but your silver lining is ofcourse all the knitting you can get done).


----------



## darowil

Just remembered that I needed to tell you how much yarn I have used for 1/2 the cardigan. I have used about 500 metres (many of you will now need to find the converter I posted earleier to work out the yardage) for the two fronts and one sleeve. A bit under rather than over. I will give an update when I fisnih the 3rd ball as to how far I have got.
Doing the second size this time BTW.


----------



## unie

Can someone explain this to me ?? I've am not getting it .
I've frogged 4 times. 

Sleeves

Change to 5.00mm needles, Cont working in St at. AT THE SAME TIME shape sides as foll: 
Inc 1 st each end next row, then 1 st each end foll 10th rows 6(3,3) times, then 1 st each end foll 14th rows, 0(3,3) times, AT THE SAME TIME when 47(51,57) sts and 42(52,66) rows have been worked. Change to col B 

Do I increase each end on each on every row for 10 rows 6 times ? and if I do I will have more than 42 stitches...

Sorry.. But very confused


----------



## Designer1234

*How I shortened sleeves that had stretched on a sweater*.

Hi everyone! Designer here! I have been reading the workshop - good job to you all.

I just finished cutting long sleeves and shortening them. I had a sweater which I washed incorrectly and the sleeves really stretched.  Darowil I hope you don't mind but I saw a mention of shortening a sleeve on here and as I just finished one I thought I would add how I did it. I have put off doing this for years as I just 
had no idea how to do this until a friend who was taking the Coat of Many colors' workshop casually mentioned how she did it. (Dana Kay)

I ran a life line about l/4 " (2 cm) or two rows, above where I wanted to cut the bottom part of the sleeve off and where I wanted to pick up the stitches.( I measured carefully). this was about 5 inches above where I wanted to cuff to end (at the wrist).

I cut 2 rows Carefully below the life line ( making sure I stayed on the cut row and didn't cut up into the area of the life line ).

I had put in both life lines at the same time to make sure of my measurements. I used yarn for the lifeline , but also you could use lifeline wire, I made sure I picked up EVERY STITCH, and tried to pick them up the way they would lie on a needle.

I then picked up the lifeline stitches with one size smaller needle ( would use an even smaller size next time) ( I used a 40cm addi so I could finish with magic loop).
I carefully removed all the yarn and stitches and the lifeline.

I then started knitting with the original size needles for about an inch -inch and a half - then changed to one smaller size and made a 4 inch fancy cuff .The amount of knitting would depend on what length you want.

It worked out beautifully. I wrote all the stitch counts and row counts and needle sizes in my notebook and the number of rows and patterns for my cuff.

I will never be nervous about doing this again.

I didn't have a pattern but just went for it. I am sure there are lots of ways to be found on the internet. I just did what seemed sensible. I admit it gave me a bit of concern when I was ready to cut off the bottom of the sleeves as it was a nice sweater that I had knit a few years ago. I have another one I want to do and will take pictures and put them in our information section here on the workshops. I hope this is helpful.

NOTE; There may be a more correct way of doing this, but I always look for the most logical and easiest way (for me) to do things in my knitting) I found this way to work very well.
Shirley


----------



## Supreya

When picking up stitches for collar and button bands, is there a way to avoid the ridge of stitches on the wrong side. 
Thanks


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> Can someone explain this to me ?? I've am not getting it .
> I've frogged 4 times.
> 
> Sleeves
> 
> Change to 5.00mm needles, Cont working in St at. AT THE SAME TIME shape sides as foll:
> Inc 1 st each end next row, then 1 st each end foll 10th rows 6(3,3) times, then 1 st each end foll 14th rows, 0(3,3) times, AT THE SAME TIME when 47(51,57) sts and 42(52,66) rows have been worked. Change to col B
> 
> Do I increase each end on each on every row for 10 rows 6 times ? and if I do I will have more than 42 stitches...
> 
> Sorry.. But very confused


Note that it says every 10th rows not every 10 rows. (personally I would have said every 10th row).

Nowhere does the pattern say anything about 42 stitches- it says 42 rows for beginning the second colour (but go back annd check what I said about the positioning of the second colour).
If you read all the sleeve increasing it does tell you the total number of stiches you should end up with just before the instructions for shaping the raglan.
I hope you can work it out from here.


----------



## darowil

Supreya said:


> When picking up stitches for collar and button bands, is there a way to avoid the ridge of stitches on the wrong side.
> Thanks


Not that I've come across. I won't say no as I still find out things that I didn't know. Such as a seam last night that cann be invisible for reversable items. But haven't yet seen anything for invisible pickups. And I can't see how it could be done either.


----------



## Supreya

darowil said:


> Not that I've come across.
> 
> Thank you


----------



## unie

darowil said:


> Note that it says every 10th rows not every 10 rows. (personally I would have said every 10th row).
> 
> Nowhere does the pattern say anything about 42 stitches- it says 42 rows for beginning the second colour (but go back annd check what I said about the positioning of the second colour).
> If you read all the sleeve increasing it does tell you the total number of stiches you should end up with just before the instructions for shaping the raglan.
> I hope you can work it out from here.


Thank you so much...... The rows instead of row was what was confusing me It didn't make sense to me... I'm sorry I mistyped the 42 st. I have read and reread it , but was afraid to do it until it was clarified. I have read about the 2nd color ,but always refresh my memory at every stage. My memory is not as good as it was in my younger years. 

Thanks again, Darowil.


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> Thank you so much...... The rows instead of row was what was confusing me It didn't make sense to me... I'm sorry I mistyped the 42 st. I have read and reread it , but was afraid to do it until it was clarified. I have read about the 2nd color ,but always refresh my memory at every stage. My memory is not as good as it was in my younger years.
> 
> Thanks again, Darowil.


Good- now you can get back to work on it again.


----------



## jmai5421

I did a shorter neck, only about 1 1/2 inches. I just have the buttonhole band to do and sew on the buttons. I am looking for the pattern of the hat that I wanted to lmake to go with the sweater. I need to get it done so I can start on Nadine's ripple sweater.
Thanks Darowil. I enjoyed making this sweater. It will be for charity.


----------



## darowil

OK I have finally finished the second version.
As I said I was planning on I did 9 rows for the neck rahter than a standup like the orginal pattern.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I did a shorter neck, only about 1 1/2 inches. I just have the buttonhole band to do and sew on the buttons. I am looking for the pattern of the hat that I wanted to lmake to go with the sweater. I need to get it done so I can start on Nadine's ripple sweater.
> Thanks Darowil. I enjoyed making this sweater. It will be for charity.


Are we going to see it?


----------



## jmai5421

Love your sweater and the pattern stitch.
Here is mine. I am still working on the hat. It is called the Kiddie Cadet Hat that was posted on KP. I made a couple for my grandson. He loved them so I made the second one when he out grew the first.


----------



## Supreya

lovely work. I especially like the yarn.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Love your sweater and the pattern stitch.
> Here is mine. I am still working on the hat. It is called the Kiddie Cadet Hat that was posted on KP. I made a couple for my grandson. He loved them so I made the second one when he out grew the first.


Looks really good- can see why you didn't use another colour, it has enough already.


----------



## unie

Love the new pattern and since I'm making three... I think I'll try it for the second one...IF.. I ever finish the first.I have lost several days. A death in DH family called us out of town and since he's disabled... the driving was left to me. I was too tired when we got back home and still tired today. I still have to do 1 and 1/2 sleeves and block.  Housework is waiting .... A woman's work is never done.  I would rather be knitting. !!!

jmai5421, I love the camo and will have to do one for the jr. hunter in my family.


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> Love the new pattern and since I'm making three... I think I'll try it for the second one...IF.. I ever finish the first.I have lost several days. A death in DH family called us out of town and since he's disabled... the driving was left to me. I was too tired when we got back home and still tired today. I still have to do 1 and 1/2 sleeves and block.  Housework is waiting .... A woman's work is never done.  I would rather be knitting. !!!
> 
> jmai5421, I love the camo and will have to do one for the jr. hunter in my family.


Life does have a habit of interfering with our knitting at times. Sorry about the family death.
No rush- after all only one person has finished their cardiagn so far that I am aware of. And I had already started the blue one before the workshop opened.


----------



## unie

darowil said:


> Life does have a habit of interfering with our knitting at times. Sorry about the family death.
> No rush- after all only one person has finished their cardiagn so far that I am aware of. And I had already started the blue one before the workshop opened.


Thank you,darowil. I'm slow and I really can't rush anyway. lol 
I just have to go at my own pace.. and I will finish it. ")


----------



## Supreya

Thank you for this workshop, and your patience Darowil. I have learned a great deal, including the fact that I have a real perfectionist streak that causes lots of ripping out and reknitting.LOL
Now...to explore blocking...


----------



## darowil

Supreya said:


> Thank you for this workshop, and your patience Darowil. I have learned a great deal, including the fact that I have a real perfectionist streak that causes lots of ripping out and reknitting.LOL
> Now...to explore blocking...


It looks good so worth perservering. I love seeing people makes the patterns their own like you did by using strips instead of one one thick strip.
I'm very glad I don't have a perfectionist streck- I am happy to fudge if it doesn't show too much- but I expect that everything I knit will have some mistakes. I figure tht I will my worst critic and try to look at how it will look to others before I frog.


----------



## jmai5421

Supreya said:


> Thank you for this workshop, and your patience Darowil. I have learned a great deal, including the fact that I have a real perfectionist streak that causes lots of ripping out and reknitting.LOL
> Now...to explore blocking...


That is neat. I love the extra stripes. I love the blue and white, one of my favorite combinations. I am kind of with Darowil-lots of fudging if I can hide it.


----------



## unie

Looks great!! Love the stripes. I'm still struggling along.If I knew how to hide it, I probably would fudge too! lol


----------



## jmai5421

jmai5421 said:


> Love your sweater and the pattern stitch.
> Here is mine. I am still working on the hat. It is called the Kiddie Cadet Hat that was posted on KP. I made a couple for my grandson. He loved them so I made the second one when he out grew the first.


----------



## darowil

The hat looks good- how cute for a child to wear.


----------



## darowil

A warning that I will be away next week- so if you may have questions I suggest they are asked this week (not that that has been a problem so far). I will be checking a couple times while I am away but don't expect to have internet access- likely relying on dropping into a local library. So I am here all this week leaving Sunday morning my time. Saturday night UK time, Saturday evening US/Canada times.


----------



## Designer1234

One of the three of us prismaticr, nrc1940 or Me, designer1234 
will be around -- so let us know just before you leave Darowil. 

I will be gone for 3 days this week,leaving tomorrow the l6th. will be back Thursday or Friday.


----------



## unie

Just a note to let whomever is interested ....I'm still working on my sweater and have started a second one.Actually, I have to do the button band and it will be finished. It seems that when I really get involved in a new project,life gets in my way! I hope to finish it by the weekend if not before. I have really enjoyed this class. Thanks to darowil , Designer1234,and anyone else that was here for us. 

Or maybe I'm writing to an empty board since I read all this a while ago???


----------



## Supreya

Hey Unie
I am still here. Finished the first started the second and life got in the way big time. Have had to put the knitting away for a bit....too much going on with special needs child issues. Be back soon


----------



## Designer1234

Supreya said:


> Hey Unie
> I am still here. Finished the first started the second and life got in the way big time. Have had to put the knitting away for a bit....too much going on with special needs child issues. Be back soon


We are still here -- We left the class open as Darowil was called away and I was up in Jasper. I am back now. I hope anyone who has finished their sweater will post a picture in the next day or two. Sorry we were not here. Shirley (designer)


----------



## jmai5421

Anxious to see your sweater Unie or should I say sweaters.


----------



## unie

jmai5421 said:


> Anxious to see your sweater Unie or should I say sweaters.


Thank you, jmai. It looks pretty good so far. I have 3 Great Grandsons that live in South Florida, so if I have them all done by Christmas, they may have cool enough weather to wear them .

;-)


----------



## unie

Supreya said:


> Hey Unie
> I am still here. Finished the first started the second and life got in the way big time. Have had to put the knitting away for a bit....too much going on with special needs child issues. Be back soon


 Well, Dear.. Children always come first. I have always heard that "special" children deserve special Moms and I' ll bet you are special too. :thumbup:


----------



## unie

Right Band (Button band)
Using 4.50mm needles col A and with RS facing pickup 
and knit 60(68,76) sts along right front 
beg at cast on edge and ending at neck 
edge, pickup 30 sts along collar to cast off edge. [90(98,106) sts] 
(WS) K2,  p2, k2 rep from  to end. 
(RS) P2,* k2, p2; rep from  to end

Are the 90 stitches all picked up together??Do I knit the button band in rib ? I thought most were done in garter st. I am confused again.The more I read the more confused I get!


----------



## unie

I didn't hear from anyone,so disregard the last question... I finally went on my own... Thanks anyway.


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> I didn't hear from anyone,so disregard the last question... I finally went on my own... Thanks anyway.


Glad you sorted it out.
I've been away and just got back- and had expected to have limited internet access and be able to pop in a couple of times but went a week without any at all!
In the next few days I will put together a final posting as we are talking of clsoing this soon.

If people still want to keep it open say so- it isn't a hassle to keep it open and I will be around to check it most days now- if not every day as I normally do.

BUTTON BANDS
I will comment on your question though. Button bands can be done in any sttich. Often rib, and can be done as with this one by picking up the stiches and knitting it in what is in effect sideways. Other times a band is knitted and sewn on, and other times it is knitted in with the front. This method is the easiest as it involves no sewing or picking up. However it also usually doesn't sit as well- the band tends to drop a bit and so is best a bit shorter than the front and when it is knitted in with the front it tends to droop. But especially for smaller items this is not as big an issue as adult cardigns for example.

The button bands can be done in garter stich, but generally the button band is done in the same stitch as the bands on the bottom of the cardigan. So ribbed bottom bands usually have a ribbed button and neck band. But as always with knitting it is usually- exceptions are always found!

*PICKING UP STITCHES*
I assume you did you pick up the 90 stitches but for future reference for others coming later- to get them even simply place pins or markers at the centre point and then in the middle of these sections so it is in quarters and divide the stitches evenly and pick up 1/4 of the stitches in each section. For longer pieces you can make more sections.
When picking up stitches for a neck band sometimes the pattern tells you how many to pick up from each section, other times it just tells you the total number to pick up. But the same principle can be used here- it may not be as accurate as the neck is curved but it doesn't matter if it is not exact. Marking the centre back (and front if a jumper or whateever you call a sweater which is not a cardigan!) is a very helpful starting point for the neck band.

And yes all 90- are picked up at once- the front band then goes up the collar as well as the neck band is actually a collar in this pattern. The first lot of stitches go along the front and the rest of the stitches up the edge of the collar. (for the collar I would simply mark the middle if I even bothered for a short peice like this- definitely not more than just the middle is needed. But 1/4s for the bottom section along the front band).


----------



## darowil

Supreya said:


> Hey Unie
> I am still here. Finished the first started the second and life got in the way big time. Have had to put the knitting away for a bit....too much going on with special needs child issues. Be back soon


Unfortunately life does have a habit of getting in the way- and people are more important than our knitting (even though the knitting can be essential to help us deal with the issues that life raises, at times it must take a back seat.
Hope the issues with the special needs child are resolving.


----------



## unie

No Problem, darowil... I apologize if I sounded irritated. I was very confused and afraid that I couldn't do it without help. Thank you for posting about the button bands. I saved the info and it will really help out on the next one. Sometimes, I'm a little insecure in my knitting and get frustrated and impatient. I really appreciate you and all the ladies that devote your time and knowledge with these workshops. You are doing all of the newer people a great service and save us a tremendous amount of frustration when trying to learn on our own. As it worked out, I think I did ok on the bands and will be posting the picture today or tomorrow. It is not as professional looking as I would like it to be,but I will get there someday.* THANK YOU!!!*


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> No Problem, darowil... I apologize if I sounded irritated. I was very confused and afraid that I couldn't do it without help. Thank you for posting about the button bands. I saved the info and it will really help out on the next one. Sometimes, I'm a little insecure in my knitting and get frustrated and impatient. I really appreciate you and all the ladies that devote your time and knowledge with these workshops. You are doing all of the newer people a great service and save us a tremendous amount of frustration when trying to learn on our own. As it worked out, I think I did ok on the bands and will be posting the picture today or tomorrow. It is not as professional looking as I would like it to be,but I will get there someday.* THANK YOU!!!*


Maybe it was good that I wasn't here- it made you work it out for yourself!
And it is not important how professional looking they are- they are handknitted and so perfection is not needed. What matters is that they look OK and that you have learnt something from this- which is what the purpose of the workshops is. While you want to make your items look as good as you can you need to take into account your own experience when you look at them. Compare your work to previous work, not to others work. You need to see yourself improving- and working out how to do this band was a step forward. Next time you can aim to have the band a little neater- assuming it is needed it may be fine. And remember that very rarely will anyone else look at it with the same critical eyes as you look at it with.
Clearly if you are knitting to sell or put in a show or something along these lines looks is much more important and it is necessary for it to look professional- but my comments are for normal knitters- and especially for those learning a new skill whatever it may be. First attempts at things are never going to be professional (experienced knitters of course will pick things up very quickly and their first attempt may well look good. But as I said don't compare yourself to them).
I am an experienced knitter, but I assure that never would I have an item that is perfect- one like the first one here has few mistakes because I have been knitting cardigans for at least 45 years. But new things (and let me tell you KP has expanded greatly what I do) have mistakes, and lots of frogging in them (and lots of fudging- I prefer fudge to frogs). So keep going, improve a little with each thing you do and try new things. But also have something that is easy for you that you can relax over- don't make all your knitting hard work.


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Maybe it was good that I wasn't here- it made you work it out for yourself!
> And it is not important how professional looking they are- they are handknitted and so perfection is not needed. What matters is that they look OK and that you have learnt something from this- which is what the purpose of the workshops is. While you want to make your items look as good as you can you need to take into account your own experience when you look at them. Compare your work to previous work, not to others work. You need to see yourself improving- and working out how to do this band was a step forward. Next time you can aim to have the band a little neater- assuming it is needed it may be fine. And remember that very rarely will anyone else look at it with the same critical eyes as you look at it with.
> Clearly if you are knitting to sell or put in a show or something along these lines looks is much more important and it is necessary for it to look professional- but my comments are for normal knitters- and especially for those learning a new skill whatever it may be. First attempts at things are never going to be professional (experienced knitters of course will pick things up very quickly and their first attempt may well look good. But as I said don't compare yourself to them).
> I am an experienced knitter, but I assure that never would I have an item that is perfect- one like the first one here has few mistakes because I have been knitting cardigans for at least 45 years. But new things (and let me tell you KP has expanded greatly what I do) have mistakes, and lots of frogging in them (and lots of fudging- I prefer fudge to frogs). So keep going, improve a little with each thing you do and try new things. But also have something that is easy for you that you can relax over- don't make all your knitting hard work.


Thank you Darowil
You made me feel good.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Thank you Darowil
> You made me feel good.


Thats fine.
In fact as I looked at the last posting I realised that the last major froging I did a few days ago was of a sock- I got to the heel and realised tht the heel stitche count was wrong so I simply assumed I had the stitches unevenly placed on the needles. But no I had done the second leg with 4 sttiches less than the first leg! absolutely no excuse and idea how I did it but wrong it was and so a frogging I went. A little hard to fudge 4 sttiches on a sock. Now if had been the 1st sock I may well have just done it with the lower number and adjusted it slightly if I needed an extra stitch or 2 for the foot pattern, but not for the 2nd sock. (for those who don't know I knit socks all the time so should have been an easy knit for me).


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Thats fine.
> In fact as I looked at the last posting I realised that the last major froging I did a few days ago was of a sock- I got to the heel and realised tht the heel stitche count was wrong so I simply assumed I had the stitches unevenly placed on the needles. But no I had done the second leg with 4 sttiches less than the first leg! absolutely no excuse and idea how I did it but wrong it was and so a frogging I went. A little hard to fudge 4 sttiches on a sock. Now if had been the 1st sock I may well have just done it with the lower number and adjusted it slightly if I needed an extra stitch or 2 for the foot pattern, but not for the 2nd sock. (for those who don't know I knit socks all the time so should have been an easy knit for me).


Yes, I love the pattern you gave us in the toe up sock workshop. Thank you, loved that workshop and used it for many pairs of socks. I have socks on the needles now in my to go bag as I accompany my DH and DD to their clinic appointments and my DH's cardiac support groups.


----------



## unie

darowil said:


> Maybe it was good that I wasn't here- it made you work it out for yourself!
> And it is not important how professional looking they are- they are handknitted and so perfection is not needed. What matters is that they look OK and that you have learnt something from this- which is what the purpose of the workshops is. While you want to make your items look as good as you can you need to take into account your own experience when you look at them. Compare your work to previous work, not to others work. You need to see yourself improving- and working out how to do this band was a step forward. Next time you can aim to have the band a little neater- assuming it is needed it may be fine. And remember that very rarely will anyone else look at it with the same critical eyes as you look at it with.
> Clearly if you are knitting to sell or put in a show or something along these lines looks is much more important and it is necessary for it to look professional- but my comments are for normal knitters- and especially for those learning a new skill whatever it may be. First attempts at things are never going to be professional (experienced knitters of course will pick things up very quickly and their first attempt may well look good. But as I said don't compare yourself to them).
> I am an experienced knitter, but I assure that never would I have an item that is perfect- one like the first one here has few mistakes because I have been knitting cardigans for at least 45 years. But new things (and let me tell you KP has expanded greatly what I do) have mistakes, and lots of frogging in them (and lots of fudging- I prefer fudge to frogs). So keep going, improve a little with each thing you do and try new things. But also have something that is easy for you that you can relax over- don't make all your knitting hard work.


It was good for me .. My old brain is a little slower than it was when I taught my self to sew @ age 20 and crochet @ age 50 and I'm sure that I'm being very impatient.. I plan to make 2 more of these sweaters and I'm sure the last will be better than the first. 

Thanks to all the teachers in these projects again for the patience and encouragement!


----------



## unie

Finally Got around to posting my photo


----------



## Designer1234

unie said:


> Finally Got around to posting my photo


Unie -- it is great! thanks so much for posting this great little sweater! I will open a Parade when Darowil gets back so everyone work away and try to get your sweaters posted here. it is lovely Unie - You were one of the first students on any of the workshops if I remember correctly you did the Coat of many colors a year ago? or do I have the wrong person?


----------



## unie

Designer1234 said:


> Unie -- it is great! thanks so much for posting this great little sweater! I will open a Parade when Darowil gets back so everyone work away and try to get your sweaters posted here. it is lovely Unie - You were one of the first students on any of the workshops if I remember correctly you did the Coat of many colors a year ago? or do I have the wrong person?


 Yes,you are correct... I was one of the people that asked a million questions, I'm sure!  you were very patient and when I finished it, I was so proud of myself and my sweater.  I will keep that sweater forever! I now have more courage than I did then and I believe that I'm improving greatly. I also take your very good advice and keep all info for everything in a folder.

This is a generous thing that you ladies are doing and I really appreciate it and I'm sure others do too!


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> Finally Got around to posting my photo


well done- that front band looks good. You worked it out fine without me.
Glad you asked the question though as it gave me the chance to answer and provide the information for others coming along later.


----------



## jmai5421

Unie
I love your sweater, the colors and the way you did the collar with the rib.
Please post the others as you finish. I love to see everyone's work and colors.


----------



## unie

Thank you so much, jmai I learned a lot from this workshop!
I'm anxious to see everyone's sweaters.


----------



## unie

darowil said:


> well done- that front band looks good. You worked it out fine without me.
> Glad you asked the question though as it gave me the chance to answer and provide the information for others coming along later.


Thank you, darowil. Actually, I printed your answer and did refer to it and kept it for future reference. I have started the second sweater and have the back and am working on the left front now.


----------



## jmai5421

unie said:


> Thank you so much, jmai I learned a lot from this workshop!
> I'm anxious to see everyone's sweaters.


Mine is the camouflage one with the cadet style hat a few pages back.


----------



## darowil

unie said:


> Thank you, darowil. Actually, I printed your answer and did refer to it and kept it for future reference. I have started the second sweater and have the back and am working on the left front now.


Your making good progress on this one.
One of the points of these workshops is for reference so thats good to know.


----------



## unie

jmai5421 said:


> Mine is the camouflage one with the cadet style hat a few pages back.


It looks great and the hat is perfect for the style. Great Job!!

I have a Grandson that wants nothing but camo, so I may have to do one for him for Christmas. Where did you get the pattern for the hat, jmai.... if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Designer1234

*The Parade is now open! please post pictures of your sweaters at the following link

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-191579-1.html#3766880*

I am closing the workshop and I ask that you put your pictures in as soon as possible. if you finish your sweaters after the workshop is closed, please post them into the "PARADE"

It is best if you do as then your name will be with your sweater.


----------



## Designer1234

*THIS WORKSHOP IS NOW CLOSED* -- PLEASE POST PICTURES IN THE PARADE AT THE LINK IN THE POST ABOVE THIS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. 
GREAT JOB, LADIES.


----------



## prismaticr

Topic is now closed. For additional information not found on these pages. please try and private message (pm) the listed teacher.

Thank you and happy knitting/crocheting!


----------

