# Smoking and Obamacare



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


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## Mellina (Jul 26, 2011)

Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That is a lot of money. People think that Obamacare is going to help people. The trouble is just starting.


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## EllenCrafts (Apr 17, 2012)

The Detroit News said it could cost an older person $5000 on top of their health insurance premiums 

But for a younger person the penalty would be less. Wouldn't it make more sense to deter younger people earlier in life?

To ask an older person to pay that much more is terrible. Yes, changes need to be made, but this is extreme.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I always said Obama needed to go.


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## Raybo (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh good grief! Here we go again.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh I thought this would happen. Readed in newspaper the other day, that smokers should not be the ones to be taxes as older people are living longer and they will cost more than smokers, kind of scary to think someone thinks like that.


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## Mz Molly (May 31, 2012)

Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Mz Molly said:


> Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....


The topic heading does say it all --
"Smoking and Obamacare "


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The topic reads "Smoking and Obamacare". That should be clue enough that this is political. You don't have to click and come to the sight. Your choice.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks, Mz Molly.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


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## Christi (Feb 3, 2011)

My insurance started going up even before the Obama care thing was passed. Insurance companies use what ever reason they can to hike up the insurance premiums. It also went up went Bush was in office. So it doesn't really matter who is in office they will hike up the insurance anyway.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, this one has to do with Obamacare specifically.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Christi, insurance rates have been going up for 50 years or more. This provision is tied to ACA and is meant to discourage smoking - which is a good thing but doesn't begin to cover other "self inflicted" problems (like alcoholism, drug addiction, and other high risk behaviors).


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


You are so right.
I don't think you are being sarcastic.
It is the truth of the matter.
Why should one be "singled out" than the other?
There are many of the world's population that develop lung cancer and such which does not have anything to do with smoking,
but more to the environmental factors.
Including in the US.
And I don't mean second-hand smoke!


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## meemaw (Jul 27, 2012)

I agree with Miz Molly!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

meemaw said:


> I agree with Miz Molly!


It is properly named to identify the topic.
bye bye


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher. Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

courier770 said:


> *Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher.* Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*


Maybe so...but I say it is not higher.
Cancer is cancer...
and the cost for one type doesn't exceed the cost of the other (IMHO).

I have been saying for many many years, if the government says smoking is so dangerous...
Why don't they ban tobacco sales in the US?
Because there is too much tax revenue and such tied to it.

Some life insurance companies will not pay out if death is due to "dangerous" activities.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

You are right, cancer is cancer but smokers do tend to have higher incidences of respiratory problems, compared to non smokers.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

courier770 said:


> You are right, cancer is cancer but smokers do tend to have higher incidences of respiratory problems, compared to non smokers.


Got me there. :wink:

What about alcoholism? Doesn't that have such underlying problems as well?
I don't know as I am not too familiar with alcoholism.
Not to mention the cost of treatment/rehab centers.
They certainly aren't all privately funded.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Yes there are certainly underlying health problems with alcoholics, drug users too but right now only smokers are being threatened with higher rates/penalty.

Not all rehab facilities are created equal either...some seem to have a "revolving door" on them. 

I just find it interesting that one group of "risk takers" will be penalized, financially, while others will not.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

I agree with you...one should not be singled out when there are so many others just as detrimental in the overall scheme of things.
I really don't see this type of mentality changing any time soon.
Smokers are being pushed back into the closets where other "risk takers" replies are...Ohhhh  OR ...way to go team! :thumbup:


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## knittingcanuk (Nov 12, 2012)

I hate to throw more gas on the fire and I don't know if you do this in the US or not, but here in Canada, our cigarettes, beer and liquor are all very costly because we pay a "sin" tax on them. You really notice the price difference when you fly out of country and shop in the "duty free" shops prior to boarding (the sin tax is not applied to cigarettes, beers and alcohol) and so they are incredibly cheap. I don't know what the exact percentage the sin tax is, but it's a VERY large amount and it goes towards health care among other public services.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

It varies from state to state.
My area just raised the cigarette tax because they didn't want to raise property tax or gasoline tax; in order to raise revenue needed. 
And it is more than on liquor.
I can buy beer for less money than soda!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Don't smoke.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right!


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## Milocat (Sep 5, 2012)

What about riding motorcycles. That sure is a high risk activity. Listed by some as among suicidal behaviour. And then there are all the other high risk and extreme sports, e.g. Bungee jumping etc. people injured in these activities will certainly use your hospital resources. 
This will not apply to mr, in Australia we have a different health care system and I have paid for private health care all my life. However we do need to take care of the vulnerable people in a population, many people cannot afford private health care.


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## onesoutherngal (Jun 6, 2011)

from what i read....the verdict is still out

apparantly they are still crunching the numbers...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-04-08-fda-tobacco-costs_N.htm

(eyes rolling here)


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

onesoutherngal said:


> from what i read....the verdict is still out
> 
> apparantly they are still crunching the numbers...
> 
> ...


That was 2009. What is the update info?


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## onesoutherngal (Jun 6, 2011)

oh...they are still debating it

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20130127-do-penalties-for-smokers-and-the-obese-make-sense.ece


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## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

Ladies,before we ever heard about President Obama we have been ripped of by insurance companies ..not just health insurance..if you ever had to take out private health insurance you know they ask all kind of questions about you previous health problems ,you habits , sometimes you even have to take a physical ,just so they make sure that they will find a reason to charge you the MAX or exclude certain medical problems..my husband has problems with kidney stones ,they will not even include that in his policy ,,how about car insurance ..lets say you have a good diving record ..no tickets ,perfect record BUT you might had financial problems which brought down you credit score ,,guess what ...you be paying a lot more for your car insurance ... Obama care is not all bad


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## victoria1953 (Feb 8, 2011)

We are all going to be paying a lot more.I am 59 and have been disabled since the age of 34 all this time I have had Medicare.I am going to loose coverage on a lot of things and hope to God that I don't get any worse than I am right now.


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## flhusker (Feb 17, 2011)

Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it. Every time there is a budget crunch it's social security that gets threatened. All the politician seem to forget that is money we earned and loaned to them with the promise that we would get it back.


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## ladysjk (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh for crying out loud! It is what it is! flhusker, Obama admin did not borrow the money...no Pres admin has payed any back...keep taking from it...did they all want the Srs to drop dead??? My insurance premiums through my job go up every single year, no matter what....so who cares. I guess where one or more are gathered, their will always be political discussions, but this seems ludicrous to me. Knitters!! Onward and Upward! I know let's put a knitter in office! 
Free wool for everyone! LET'S do away with all insurance, and go back to a hen in exchange for a shot, or a dozen eggs, for birthin a baby~! Let's let people die from polio, or scarlet fever...cuz we ain't got us no insurance companies...and them doctors ain't got none of them thar vaccines....I cain't go to no hospital for no stinkin surgery, cuz I haint got no cow, pig and goat ta pay fer it. 

Think I will be grateful for what I have instead...and to all a good night.

.


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## Nocturnal1961 (May 12, 2012)

I will drop my husband if his smoking make my insurance payments go way up.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

If they charge more for these people - alcoholics, drug addicts,obesity, etc, doesn't make sense. These are the very people that can't afford (for what ever their excuse) health care now. So, how's a government mandated insurance program going to help these people anyway?a


courier770 said:


> Christi, insurance rates have been going up for 50 years or more. This provision is tied to ACA and is meant to discourage smoking - which is a good thing but doesn't begin to cover other "self inflicted" problems (like alcoholism, drug addiction, and other high risk behaviors).


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## sidecargrammie (Feb 14, 2011)

yep, I agree Obamacare must go..just as entitlements.


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## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

I think it's a crock about the smokers.

I pay $700 a month for health insurance. I go to my family doctor once a year for a physical. I go every 3 years for a colonoscopy (family history of colon cancer). I would be willing to pit my annual medical bills against any non-smoker and I doubt many of them have less than I do. And the only prescription I take is my hormone patch.

I think they are making big-time money on me. But, I also don't think it's wise for me to not have any insurance so I pay grudgingly every month.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

flhusker said:


> Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it.


How do you know what the President would like?


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## Clelita (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm waiting for obamacare to provide insurance coverage to those in low paid jobs, those self-employed who have pre-existing conditions, those who can't afford independent insurance, older students .... my child is one of them and I can't hardly wait for my child to be able to get coverage.


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## Hotpot (Oct 2, 2012)

Thank God for the NHS


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Hotpot said:


> Thank God for the NHS


Hear hear, we are vey fortunate and I can't understand why so many US Americans are so opposed to 'socialised' medicine.


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## mirjana (Jan 9, 2013)

quit smoking! 
save your life. lost my sister to lung cancer--i wish 
she had restrictions sooner.


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## mirjana (Jan 9, 2013)

do you take your social security checks?


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## mirjana (Jan 9, 2013)

do you take your social security checks?


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

Mellina said:


> Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.


Mine went up $26 a pay period, and my co-pay for a visit with the doctor went from $5 to $20.


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## gillian lorraine (Aug 18, 2011)

here in the uk most of the care is free (not eyes or teeth) but I think that people taking part in extreme sports should have insurance for "accidents" occuring during taking part--the air ambulance costs thousands of pounds to rescue people from up mountains, rivers and other inaccessible places because land ambulances cannot feasibly rescue them .
My opinion is that they are deliberately putting themselves in harms way-- you cannot really believe you can ride a bike down a major wooded hill and not come out the other side unscathed etc.


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## wurzel (Aug 6, 2012)

So they should be. They cause problems for other people, not just themselves.


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## heffernb (May 30, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


I also had those thoughts. Then there are those people under great stress, which can cause illness, or who cross the street in the middle of the street, or elderly people who drive that shouldn't be, or people with heart disease that shovel snow, or people who don't wear boots in a snowy parking lot. The list is endless.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

I believe the rate of lung cancer in smokers is 10% - not bad odds! Can't remember where I read it, but Googling might give more info.

The problem is that we are daily being misinformed and manipulated. 'Big Brother' runs 'hate' campaigns - obesity, smoking, fat in the diet - in order to prevent independent behaviour in people. 

All sorts of groups want POWER and frightening the population and making them distrust their own judgement is the best way to begin.


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## heffernb (May 30, 2011)

heffernb said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!
> ...


When I read about this in the paper yesterday part of the argument was that people who did not smoke should not have to help pay the medical costs of those who do. Following on that philosophy, then it is another huge can of worms. People who live close to waters that flood should not be helped by anyone else or people who are poor should not be helped and on and on. This is a very complicated matter and I think the issue is not really smoking - but smoking is an easy target.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

agreed. there are so many scare campaigns out there. I do not buy into it. No matter how healthy my lifestyle, I'm not getting out alive. I don't want to feel like a martyr, so I settle for moderation in all things. I don't need the government or commercials telling me that. I have health enough to enjoy my life. I don't think going to extremes has ever helped anyone. I'm a grown woman and I can think for myself.


silvercharms said:


> I believe the rate of lung cancer in smokers is 10% - not bad odds! Can't remember where I read it, but Googling might give more info.
> 
> The problem is that we are daily being misinformed and manipulated. 'Big Brother' runs 'hate' campaigns - obesity, smoking, fat in the diet - in order to prevent independent behaviour in people.
> 
> All sorts of groups want POWER and frightening the population and making them distrust their own judgement is the best way to begin.


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## gillian lorraine (Aug 18, 2011)

I agree that smokers are an easy target
At least tobacco can be taxed,,
The comment about people who shovel snow with heart disease, walk in inappropriate footwear,is a bit of a hard one to answer! most do not have the same risk awareness as the extreme sportsperson--

I am not being critical just enjoying the exchange of ideas.

Just where will the government stop if allowed to make people pay for ordinary life mishaps. the Nanny state will run amoke and we will all be doing risk assessments before we even visit our toilets in case we fall down the hole!!!!!! (Ha ha)


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

I thought we were told healthcare would cost LESS under this new fangled health law --seems not!! but anyone with with sense knew thats what was going to happen


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> The problem is that we are daily being misinformed and manipulated. 'Big Brother' runs 'hate' campaigns -


Who is Big Brother?

I know it's Orwell season but UK in 2013 is nothing like '1984' in the novel.


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## thebetters2010 (Mar 21, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Hotpot said:
> 
> 
> > Thank God for the NHS
> ...


Socialized medicine killed my mother-in-law (when she lived in Canada.) She was old so why actually treat colon cancer? I've said for many years that the HMO's and PPO's were merely started to help introduce us to socialized coverage. People thought I was nuts. I want the controls over which doctor I see and what treatment I get. I don't want some pencil pusher to determine whether I live or die. I don't want some "panel" to make me part of their genocide. While other countries actually respect and care for their senior population, America will quickly toss them aside.

Seems as though all the bleeding heart liberals who voted for the new King of America are now crying about Obamacare. Can't have it both ways, you know?


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

First of all I hate the term "Obamacare"....the ACA was NOT the result of one man/person. Look at all of our representatives who not only crafted the act but voted for it.

They key word was supposed to be "affordable" and as we are already seeing, that's just not happening! Now drag out all the "add ons"..and yes smokers/tobacco are an easy target.

So called "sin taxes" have been added to tobacco, alcohol, soft drinks and candy in some areas. Those additional taxes are NOT being siphoned into health care. Those taxes end up in the general operating fund and used at the discretion of the municipality collecting them.

As the "baby boomer" generation ages, there is a growing need for medical services geared towards the elderly, though the rallying cry for passage of ACA was the millions of uninsured children in this country.

American's don't want socialized medicine, in fact we don't want socialism and that's our choice.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

thebetters2010 said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Socialized medicine killed my mother-in-law (when she lived in Canada.) She was old so why actually treat colon cancer?
> ...


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## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

courier770 said:


> First of all I hate the term "Obamacare"....the ACA was NOT the result of one man/person. Look at all of our representatives who not only crafted the act but voted for it.
> 
> They key word was supposed to be "affordable" and as we are already seeing, that's just not happening! Now drag out all the "add ons"..and yes smokers/tobacco are an easy target.
> 
> ...


Just a note of clarification. I don't know how it is in your state but in Texas tobacco tax is a state tax. Municipalities get nothing from this tax.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

courier770 said:


> collecting them.
> 
> American's don't want socialized medicine, in fact we don't want socialism and that's our choice.


Our NHS is nothing to do with socialism but I know several US Americans who DO want socialism, some are members of 'The Party'. We argue long and hard about such things  You can't say that all Americans don't want socialism and I know that the British NHS is envied by many.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is that we are daily being misinformed and manipulated. 'Big Brother' runs 'hate' campaigns -
> ...


'Big Brother' is a generic term for all those who seek power over us, or indeed funds from us - another way of gaining power.

In my view, we in the UK are ruled by powerful forces in the media, especially the BBC (who are very partial about what info they give us) the Murdoch-type press with their close links to government, and politicians. These form what I call the metro-elite in charge of the funding (with our taxes) of government here.

It can't have escaped your notice that politicians have voted themselves expenses and gold-plated pensions while the rest of the country struggles.

There is a scandal brewing about wind-farms - many in government have links to businesses involved in producing equipment - strange then that info about the unreliability of wind-power has been systematically suppressed.

Similarly with climate change. And who pays? Those who can least afford to. At the same time they are being told to tighten their belts, money is flung in various directions lining the pockets of those in positions of power while the country's debt grows ever larger.


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## abby8319 (Feb 9, 2011)

Where do you get your info? Insurance companies are raising rates NOW - before Obamacare goes into effect.
You have been blindsided by wrongful info!


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

Christi said:


> My insurance started going up even before the Obama care thing was passed. Insurance companies use what ever reason they can to hike up the insurance premiums. It also went up went Bush was in office. So it doesn't really matter who is in office they will hike up the insurance anyway.


Christi,

Thank you so much for your comments. There is so much misinformation out there. Just for the record Obamacare doesn't go into effect until 2014 no matter which side of the fence you are on.


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## grandmaof7 (Feb 6, 2011)

I thought ObamaCare was free! Thanks everyone who voted for him!!!!


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## Isa (Nov 12, 2011)

Obama care or not, health care costs have been rising out of control for years and seniors have been feeling the pain more so because of Medicare cuts and living on fixed income. These issues go way back to the first Bush when my health care payroll deductions began to increase as well as my copay. In the past 10 years, I went from $2.00 copay to $40.00 copay, each vist! If nothing else, I am deterred from going to the doctor often. Obama has been trying to regulate health care for ALL people. It's the political steering of insurance companies, interest groups and lobbyists, influencing the senate to create discord and change/pass the bill we have today. Polititians will be more concerned with healthcare for all when they have to pay from their own pocket and we as tax payers stop footing their medical bills.(see the Jane Paulie special, 'Where the Money Goes' on medical care for elected officials taped Pre-Obama.)


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

My husband and myself had no health insurance when our middle son was born. I bartered with my doctor for the prenatal and delivery fees (one of the best stories that I like to tell came out of that experience). Also did that with our pediatrician. It wasn't a pig, cow, or chicken. However, they are willing if asked and you have a skill that they have use of.

I don't mind political discussions. It's good mental exercise and if nobody talks about it then we have, in effect, denied each other of our 1st ammendment rights. Discuss on!



ladysjk said:


> Oh for crying out loud! It is what it is! flhusker, Obama admin did not borrow the money...no Pres admin has payed any back...keep taking from it...did they all want the Srs to drop dead??? My insurance premiums through my job go up every single year, no matter what....so who cares. I guess where one or more are gathered, their will always be political discussions, but this seems ludicrous to me. Knitters!! Onward and Upward! I know let's put a knitter in office!
> Free wool for everyone! LET'S do away with all insurance, and go back to a hen in exchange for a shot, or a dozen eggs, for birthin a baby~! Let's let people die from polio, or scarlet fever...cuz we ain't got us no insurance companies...and them doctors ain't got none of them thar vaccines....I cain't go to no hospital for no stinkin surgery, cuz I haint got no cow, pig and goat ta pay fer it.
> 
> Think I will be grateful for what I have instead...and to all a good night.
> ...


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


This is a subject that is gaining momentum here in Australia. They are saying that because smokers choose to smoke (self inflicted) and the obese choose to be obese because of their eating habits, then stiff cheddar - they pay, whether through medical fees or on airlines. I get angry because not every obese person eats junkfood, cakes and cream buns. I am overweight because I can't mvoe around as much as I would like due to needing double knee replacement and having extremely brittle bones. My bone problem was caused because I did as I was told at school and did as many sporty things that I could. I did equestiran and dressage horse riding, gynmastics, ice and roller skating, athletics, off-road rally riding (and then driving once I got my licence). I did bushwalking and rock climbing - a lot of impact sports that were doing damage to my skeletal system. Now I'm paying the price. So for people to say the the obese should be penalised for being so makes my blood boil. Yes!! Make those who are lazy and eat wrong pay the penalties, but not those who have health issues that are not food related.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Are you kidding? Obamacare free??? Oh, my God. I am sorry, but you will be paying big time. You must be kidding. If you really believe it will be "free", - I am at a loss for words. It will NOT BE FREE!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I work in the healthcare industry and have done so for over 30 years. Specifically, I work the back office. So, I work with insurance daily. Health insurance started out as 80-20 type plans that were only payable for illnesses and hospitalizations. It started spinning out of control when the customers started demanding coverage for everything. From my experience the cost of healthcare and insurance costs are a beast of our own making.



Helgajr1 said:


> Ladies,before we ever heard about President Obama we have been ripped of by insurance companies ..not just health insurance..if you ever had to take out private health insurance you know they ask all kind of questions about you previous health problems ,you habits , sometimes you even have to take a physical ,just so they make sure that they will find a reason to charge you the MAX or exclude certain medical problems..my husband has problems with kidney stones ,they will not even include that in his policy ,,how about car insurance ..lets say you have a good diving record ..no tickets ,perfect record BUT you might had financial problems which brought down you credit score ,,guess what ...you be paying a lot more for your car insurance ... Obama care is not all bad


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Beast of our own making - yes. We voted Obama in. He wants to give everybody everything.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

If you are referring to social security as an entitlement I disagree with that premise. SS is something that I've paid into all my working life. It's money that is due to me.

If the politicians hadn't salivated over how much money SS _used_ to have and then raided it for whatever pet project they wanted at the time leaving behind worthless IOUs then it would have plenty of money left.



mirjana said:


> do you take your social security checks?


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> flhusker said:
> 
> 
> > Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it.
> ...


When this subject was first reported here in Australia it was stated that Obama wanted decent healthcare for all Americans whereas when he came into power there was only good quality health care for the rich. What is so bad about him trying to level the playing field.
Other things we are hearing over here as well, that he wants only the best for Americans, but the rich population is shooting the messenger. At least he has the guts to put up where other presidents didn't. Pity there aren't more like him. Sad thing is he only has another couple of years to make an impact before he's out and someone else comes in.


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## smsgreeneyes (Nov 22, 2011)

I have to pay my premiums every quarter. 3 years ago it was $1400 per quarter plus $35 because we smoke. Last year went to $ 1800 plus 75 for smoking. This year...... 2000 per quarter plus 150.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama is lowering good healthcare for everyone. He thinks he can take care of everyone for "free".


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## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

Well smokers are actually damageing their health by lighting up. They knowingly do this so why should the non smokers foot the bill. My auto insurance gives a discount if one is a non smoker.


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## lorbrown1 (Jan 1, 2013)

Nocturnal1961 said:


> I will drop my husband if his smoking make my insurance payments go way up.


This is the best comment here! Love it..still laughing.


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

lets face it no matter if you smoke or not we are all going to be paying way more. Mine went up just as I got it and I don't smoke. I think this Obamacare is a shame and we are all going to get the shaft where the sun doesn't shine.


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## trimic (Aug 20, 2012)

Obamacare will cover those people, but a caveat is there will be a cap on care, and they will choose what conditions will be covered. Not everyone will be covered equally. I had a relative who smoked and drank heavily and was treated at the "Best" cancer hospital in the area. I went with him and the first thing they took care of was the manner in how this was going to be paid!! He was on medcare only with no assets, and he was given the minimal care they could give. He died within a year. 
Everyone makes their own choices in life. Sometimes things happen we can't control, but 90% is up to us. Make the right choices, with eating and your life style and you will cut down your health problems, and let the people who don't want to be accountable for their choices pay the price. Tough, but true.


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## PittyPat (Jul 2, 2011)

Ironic....I have read that Obama smokes. Won't matter, Washington doesn't have to follow Obamacare. I have not verified the smoking issue.... PittyPat


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

Neither my husband and I are smokers and never have been but his insurance went up almost $50 a pay period. UGH! I know we have to have it, but does it need to cost so much??


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I cannot believe that someone wrote that Obamacare will be free...


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

doesn't the sin tax pay for this.. its another clear cut case of double taxing... its enough to drive a person crazy... I wonder how other countries handle their taxes when it comes to drugs/cigarettes/and alcohol


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## Shelly51 (Dec 29, 2012)

He quit smoking mid way in his term in office


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

PittyPat said:


> Ironic....I have read that Obama smokes. Won't matter, Washington doesn't have to follow Obamacare. I have not verified the smoking issue.... PittyPat


He did smoke when he came into office he quite. It was all in the news.


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## Laurenb53 (Jan 25, 2013)

Not going into politics, but just need some encouragement. This is day four of no cigarettes and the little man on my shoulder is screaming just stop on your way to work and buy a pack.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

If he gets lung cancer, even after quitting, he better pay more. After all, it is from smoking. Pay up Obama.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Don't do it. Don't smoke. Cell damage happens immediately. I smoked 25 years ago and I am still paranoid that I am going to get sick from it. It is a terrible way to go having lung cancer. Just terrible.


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Laurenb53 said:


> Not going into politics, but just need some encouragement. This is day four of no cigarettes and the little man on my shoulder is screaming just stop on your way to work and buy a pack.


Laurenb53, just keep walking on past that door and go take that money and treat yourself think of what you could buy with that money..how about a new ball of yarn or a new piece of clothing.. I know what your going through it is hard at first but you CAN and will do it. I used the patches they do work. But you also have to work on the brain.


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## NYBev (Aug 23, 2011)

Why do some people actually think some healthcare is free? Nothing is ever "free". Somebody somewhere has to pay for the so called "free" things.


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## Laurenb53 (Jan 25, 2013)

Cathy 47, I figured I would save about $150.00 per month. I am using the gum and it seems to be helping me, I WILL go past that door today. Thanks!


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


Considering those 1800+ pages, no telling what's really in there. I'm sure they'll be tagging on all sorts of "afflictions" to add to the already skyrocketing cost of the law.


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## rosebay44 (Apr 27, 2011)

I quit smoking after 25 years of it, you can too. People who abuse themselves with alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, obesity are a drain on the system and the rest of us pay for their stupidity.


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## pzoe (Mar 17, 2011)

No one knows how all this is going to unfold. Scaring ourselves will only make for more suffering. 

Pzoe


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Let's not forget that there are 21 new or higher taxes that are embedded in the so-called 'Affordable' healthcare law. Here's a few for your consideration.

Here in Minnesota where there are medical device manufacturers, it is a HUGE deal that these manufacturers are going to be paying a 2.3% excise tax on U.S. sales. It's going to have a big impact on the workforce.

A $2.3 billion-a-year tax on drug companies. Yeah, that's going to help the cost of our prescriptions.

An $87 billion hike in Medicare payroll taxes for employees, as well as the self-employed. So, only those that are already working will feel this one.

A $60 billion tax on health insurers. Think that this won't be passed on to the customers?

So, my question is, who is this really 'affordable' to?



headlemk said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!
> ...


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## hgayle (Aug 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


I agree!


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

BevBaudo said:


> Why do some people actually think some healthcare is free? Nothing is ever "free". Somebody somewhere has to pay for the so called "free" things.


Sure healthcare is free - if you don't work, lounge around, have lots of babies, and commit criminal acts.

Once on the programme Cops, I saw a criminal get out of a crashed stolen car - on 2 state-of-the-art metal sprung legs which he had been given the previous time he crashed a stolen car.

I wondered then and I wonder now how a normally-paid law-abiding worker in a car crash would fare?


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Mz Molly said:


> Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....


Amen to that sister. Politics here has no place and at least warn in the title so we can not open and get a brain spin. Besides, just like the vaccine topic, so much of it is anecdotal it doesn't count and is irrelevant in Science! And with attribution saying "I read or I heard" is just that....third hand heresay, not Fact. People we have to start researching and thinking for ourselves. Please. 
MindyT


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Lauren,

Do you exercise. That is a must. Walk, jump rope, anything. I just finished from 1 1/2 hours of exercise and know if I don't do it, it will be the end of me. Need to keep my bones and heart going.

You must do it. You have no choice.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Whether or not politics has a place on this forum, I think the word "Obamacare" is a big, fat clue that it is, in fact, a political topic. And you clicked on it anyway. Tsk.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, she had a choice to pass over the topic and she clicked on it. On some level she was interested in the politics. Come on!


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

I cannot believe folks are not outraged that the politicians do not have to also be in the Obamacare program What happened to Congress shall pass no law that is not used by all citizens including government (paraphrazing)?


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## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


Living in the UK, can I ask a question - is Obamacare a new health scheme, how much does the average US citizen pay for medical care, and are there lots of choices with who you insure with or do you pay to the Government, I am so confused

:roll:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We are all confused here, too. This is a new health care scheme by Obama. He wants everyone to be insured. But, there are massive problems here with that way of doing things. He says no taxes on it, but that is not true. There are lots of problems. He wants to give away the bank.


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## User5935 (Feb 9, 2011)

I recently went in for a refill and there was no longer a co-pay. My carrier also switched without notifying me (I get this refill monthly and they were the same last month). I understand some logic behind paying more for older smokers. They are much more likely to already be or soon to be dealing with the health issues that stem from smoking than a younger person. Those health problems are going to cost insurance companies more money as treatment costs are high. Either way you slice it people are going to happy with some things ad put out over others. There is no easy fix. I don't feel that this is a satisfactory one, but its nearly impossible to find the right one since it would take time to study things, but the info being studied is constantly changing.


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## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > silvercharms said:
> ...


Way to go I'm right behind you

:thumbup:


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## Friederike (Aug 26, 2011)

My husband was a cigar smoker. His insurance would have gone up $85/month if he had continued to enjoy his cigars. Add the cost of cigars, he subscribed to Thompsons cigars, and his habit would come to $200/month. He gave it up. I personally am glad he did; I got a bit weary living in a smoke cloud! On the other hand I don't feel it's right to penalize folks who want to smoke. What's next? Have someone by the pastry counter telling a customer who is a bit on the plump side they can't buy the cookies but if they want them bad enough it'll cost them more? Ugggg...I don't like it....


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## gillian lorraine (Aug 18, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!
> ...


my husband is obese, eats --TRULY-- 1400 calories a day and has a manual job ,hgv fitter which involves a lot of heavy lifting etc, his cholesterol is on the low side as is his blood pressure, he has (at long last been diagnosed with a metabolic reason for his weight ) but if the obese are to be penalised re:medical care he is one who will be unfairly treated ( what irritates me is watching these wight loss programmes and the sufferer is eating all the crap they should not {and they know it})


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Mz Molly said:
> 
> 
> > Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....
> ...


If you don't want to read the political discussions in the "CHAT" section, then don't open and read them. It's that simple. Like turning off the TV.


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## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

One problem with costs is that people do not take any responsibilty for their own heath. Many run to the doctor for every little thing when it could have been prevented or treated at home. People want to be cured instantly. Good health takes time and work.


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## gifffylz (Dec 29, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> The topic reads "Smoking and Obamacare". That should be clue enough that this is political. You don't have to click and come to the sight. Your choice.


Ouch! I actually thought it was going to be one of our daily jokes.


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## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is that we are daily being misinformed and manipulated. 'Big Brother' runs 'hate' campaigns -
> ...


Cameron and his crew


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

gillian lorraine said:


> knittingdragon said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


I agree. It's the same with Diabetics. Because my husband is Diabetic we have two magazines a month sent to us from Diabetes Australia Queensland and some other mob directly related to Diabetes - can't remember their name off-hand. They are both always going on about Diabetes being weight related. It's not always and I'm in the process of taking that up with them. My husband was diagnosed at age 58 (he's now 61). He is 5 foot 10 inches tall and weighs 69kg. He is extremely active - climbs up and down from house roofs all day every day as well as crawling through ceilings and under houses. He has Diabetes because his mother, grandmother and great grandmother all had it.


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## gretchen (Jan 17, 2011)

The Government doesnt care about you.They have their own healthcare and we can all stuff it as far as they are concerned. To add an extra kick in your butt you will now shoulder the burden of every free rider on society too. If you voted for Mr Obama you cant complain. Also, Id like to add the increase in my insurance to your monthly bill. Kindly let us know your address.....back to my knitting...


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

This isn't about politics, but healthcare.


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## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

I agree. My insurance rates went up every year for as long as I can remember. Apparently people have forgotten how we have been raped by the insurance companies. BTW, I am now retired & on Medicare with a supplemental policy & my rates went down this year.


Christi said:


> My insurance started going up even before the Obama care thing was passed. Insurance companies use what ever reason they can to hike up the insurance premiums. It also went up went Bush was in office. So it doesn't really matter who is in office they will hike up the insurance anyway.


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## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

Really?


kittykatzmom said:


> This isn't about politics, but healthcare.


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## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> When this subject was first reported here in Australia it was stated that Obama wanted decent healthcare for all Americans whereas when he came into power there was only good quality health care for the rich. What is so bad about him trying to level the playing field.
> Other things we are hearing over here as well, that he wants only the best for Americans, but the rich population is shooting the messenger. At least he has the guts to put up where other presidents didn't. Pity there aren't more like him. Sad thing is he only has another couple of years to make an impact before he's out and someone else comes in.


And you've been hearing what the liberal, hands in Obama's pants media want the world to hear.

Healthcare in the USA before Obama wasn't only for the wealthy. I'm by far from wealthy and I had healthcare that was affordable. Thankfully I'm also a healthy person. Anyway. If a person didn't have any insurance, if their income was under a certain $, they qualified for Medicaid. If they fell between the cracks (so to speak), all most of them did was just show up at the hospital ER and they were treated without cost to them. Of course everyone else who used the hospital who had insurance paid the difference out of their premiums.

So, what I'm saying is, everyone could have access medical care, no one was denied treatment. You hear the horror stories of those who couldn't get treatment for their cancer, but they are the ones who had insurance that had a cap, or made more than the medicaid maximum. Those instances were also few and far between.

We hear of the same horror stories in Canada and GB, those who need major medical care and cannot get it because of the "wait time" to see a doctor, etc, etc, etc.

the so-called Obamacare, the ACA, just threw a wrench into the system we already had. Why do so many Canadians and those from other countries come to the USA to get medical treatment? Because they wouldn't have to wait for months for an appointment just for a consult. Before long there will be months-long waiting periods to see a doctor in the USA.

I personally know of doctors who are quitting practice because they don't want to deal with the issues the ACA will bring their offices. I don't blame them. It can't be all that "wonderful" if many of the physicians themselves don't want to work under it.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Things are getting worse in the USA in the healthcare field. I remember going to any doctor I wanted to and being covered by health insurance. Over the year the insurance companies started telling us where we can go. At one time a GP (now primary doctor) would do everything from giving birth on up till we passed on, but those days are gone. Now we have to go to a different doctor for everything and often that is with being preauthorized. Medicare wont pay for a medication to prevent me from having a knee replacement, but they will pay for the replacement. How dumb is this????


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## SYAPJR (Mar 5, 2011)

I watched a much loved aunt die from lung cancer and emphazema (spelling) from smoking it was an agonizing death. If you a smoker please stop, and if you aren't a smoker don't start.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

blavell said:


> I agree. My insurance rates went up every year for as long as I can remember. Apparently people have forgotten how we have been raped by the insurance companies. BTW, I am now retired & on Medicare with a supplemental policy & my rates went down this year.
> 
> 
> Christi said:
> ...


Thats interesting my supplimental went up my presc coverage went up and of course the medicare pymt went up??/ how did you manage a decrease?


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

ultrahiggs said:


> Who is Big Brother?
> 
> I know it's Orwell season but UK in 2013 is nothing like '1984' in the novel.


Cameron and his crew[/quote]

You think that everything would change under Milliband and Balls?


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## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

MacRae said:


> Christi said:
> 
> 
> > My insurance started going up even before the Obama care thing was passed. Insurance companies use what ever reason they can to hike up the insurance premiums. It also went up went Bush was in office. So it doesn't really matter who is in office they will hike up the insurance anyway.
> ...


thank you ladies :thumbup:
ok i am going back to doing something more constructive like knitting or any my other hobbies ..because this is really getting silly ....


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama is a joke.


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## ultrahiggs (Jun 4, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> ultrahiggs said:
> 
> 
> > Who is Big Brother?
> ...


You think that everything would change under Milliband and Balls?[/quote]

They are all as bad as each other, I think here in the UK we should start voting for other parties except the norm - I am going Ukip


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

ultrahiggs said:


> s?


They are all as bad as each other, I think here in the UK we should start voting for other parties except the norm - I am going Ukip[/quote]

And you think Nigel would change MP's pay and pensions?

If they're 'all the same' then why do they disagree and which one is Big Brother?


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## sandimac (Feb 11, 2011)

Yet the government still subsides the tobacco industry!


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## woodgirl (Jun 15, 2011)

I still believe in free speech, Obamacare will and has already hurt this country. We need to wake up at what is going on in this country.


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## susannahp (Nov 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


I can solve your health problems, come and live in Canada , my hubby is from the US and says the health care system here is the best he has ever seen !


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## KathieMT (Apr 6, 2011)

I wonder how they will know if someone is a smoker. Are they going to ask them to put a check mark in a box on the form? Don't know of too many that would do that knowing they will be paying a higher rate.
Then there is me--I quit smoking 12 years ago. Would I have to pay the higher rate?
Then there are the ones that are grossly overweight. Why aren't they paying a higher rate. that is just as dangerous, if not more so, than smoking.
Or the ones that have a dangerous lifestyle--like the police and fire personal. Would they have to pay the higher rate?
I read so much of those Affordable Care Act that all I have is questions. Why would I have to register at birth a disabled child? There are so many exemptions for religion and politics--how could it be beneficial?
The whole thing should be scrapped and the insurance companies be limited to just one policy per each person. None of this pre-existing condition, being a female, etc.


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Current smokers you can tell from their breath and how their clothes smell and by there skin. Maybe there is a test to determine if you are a current user or not. WHO knows? This country is busy doing useless things whiles important issues go unresolved. 
I have never been a smoker, but to me this would be a violated of a person's personal rights to be discriminated against for smoking. I'm glad people can no longer smoke in restaurnats and bars, but at the same time this is a violation of the smokers rights; just has having smoking violates the non -smokers. No win win on this subject.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is a joke.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I knew he was trouble when he made his first statement to the American people when he first got into office his 1st term.
All I'll say is it had to do with the media and I said to myself "How dare he?!"

As for the healthcare...
the problem at hand at the start was insurance companies charged an outrageous amount for premiums (including co-pays for this, that, and the other) 
for which more and more Americans could not afford.
The cost of things for everyday living keep going up, wages staying the same, hour cuts of the work week, etc, etc....
(including insurance premiums increasing with every passing month/year).
How can anyone but the rich afford insurance.

All the Government had to do was to cap what the insurance companies can charge for premiums or pay a really hefty fine for each case.
And scrap any idea of not covering pre existing conditions because it was getting so bad that if you had a cold in the past, the flu would not be covered in the future.
How stupid is that?!
The Government has put regulations on many many things (companies, banks, etc), including international sanctions, so why not the insurance industry?
We all know the answer to that.

Enough said before I say something not so nice. :wink:


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## JoannaP (Jul 24, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


You might be sarcastic, but I think you're right on the money. Sorry to be Little Susy Raincloud, but controlling our behaviors is exactly what Obamacare is all about. It's tucked into every page of the law. Now we just get to find out exactly how they will implement the control.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is lowering good healthcare for everyone. He thinks he can take care of everyone for "free".


I think you should go to talk to him and give him your ideas to get on the right medical track. There's always hope for change.


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## ADiane (Nov 25, 2011)

Amen to no politics!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


You are correct, even tho' it sounds a little extreme. People need to take more responsibility for their health and welfare. Why should those who live healthy lifestyles pay for those who overindulge, and don't take care of themselves? A member of my family, who used to enjoy skydiving, can't get coverage for any injury which occurs during that sport - so some insurance plans do have exclusions. Many insurance plans offer their subscribers gym memberships, diet counseling and resources, addiction help... so there is no reason for a person who doesn't try to manage his health to continue an unhealthy lifestyle without consequences. I personally feel that insurance premiums should reflect that - as well as the cost in relation to the size of the family. Why should a childless couple pay the same as one with multiple children? While I feel everyone should have access to good health care, I don't necessarily think it needs to be equal to everyone under all circumstances. (This is bound to generate lots of discussion...)


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is a joke.


No, he is terrifying.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I think smokers are being targeted because they do, indeed, have more health issues because of their habit of choice. A few years back, a smoking friend of mine had to have some skin procedure done (non-smoking related) and the admitting person asked if I was her daughter. I am a year older than my friend. She has had many broken bones and subsequent surgery. Smoking weakens bones. She has chronic bronchitis. Her father died of lung cancer, her brother died of a heart attack (both heavy smokers). We have traveled together and shared hotel closets, much to my regret (transferred odor). She is a professional woman with expensive clothes. I would guess her dry cleaning bills are atrocious. 
Last year, I went to my cousin's house after not being able to reach her by phone after many tries. I found her dead from a massive heart attack. When the medical examiner came out to her home, he interviewed me about my knowledge of her medications, habits, moods etc. I knew she was on blood pressure meds. He said from what he could see just looking around, that it was a massive heart attack due to smoking because there were several ashtrays around the house with no less than 17 butts in each. From mail in box, phone messages,newspaper accumulation, library books due, condition of the body etc., it was determined she had been dead for 10 days. Of course, this was confirmed after more thorough examination. After this happened, I asked my first smoker I mentioned, if we could do a daily phone check in as we are both single women living alone. She said she didn't care about how she would be found as she would be dead. I said it wasn't fair to me to be the finder. This episode had a profound effect on me. 

If the stinky breath, clothes and home and car don't do it. If the chronic coughing, bad skin, broken bones don't do it. If the cancer and heart disease, stroke risks don't do it and now higher insurance rates because of them. Do it for the people who love you. Stop smoking. Please.


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## sholen (Mar 1, 2011)

Yes, this was "hidden" in the 2,000 page health care bill that nobody read. Remember when Nancy Pelosi said, "Pass the bill, then you can read it". Unfortunately, too many people did just that.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Obama is a joke.
> ...


That too! 
:shock:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

gretchen said:


> The Government doesnt care about you.They have their own healthcare and we can all stuff it as far as they are concerned. To add an extra kick in your butt you will now shoulder the burden of every free rider on society too. If you voted for Mr Obama you cant complain. Also, Id like to add the increase in my insurance to your monthly bill. Kindly let us know your address.....back to my knitting...


I agree!


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> ultrahiggs said:
> 
> 
> > s?
> ...


And you think Nigel would change MP's pay and pensions?

If they're 'all the same' then why do they disagree and which one is Big Brother?[/quote]

You should read UKIP policies - on line, easy to access.

You might be surprised how many you agree with. And they're not just hot air, put about by people seeking power and wealth.

They have been framed (and I know this) by ordinary people in the party, albeit those with expertise.

PS I already explained who is Big Brother - an amalgam of institutions and polkiticians who seek power over us. Of course they're 'different' - they all have different ideas about how to profit from the situation!


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

silvercharms said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > ultrahiggs said:
> ...


You should read UKIP policies - on line, easy to access.

You might be surprised how many you agree with. And they're not just hot air, put about by people seeking power and wealth.

They have been framed (and I know this) by ordinary people in the party, albeit those with expertise.

PS I already explained who is Big Brother - an amalgam of institutions and politicians who seek power over us. Of course they're 'different' - they all have different ideas about how to profit from the situation![/quote]


----------



## k2p3-knit-on (Oct 24, 2012)

I know an insurance company that began charging smokers more well before Obamacare. It makes business sense and is an incentive to live a healthier life. 

Something that offends my sense of right is the settlements tobacco companies had to make to states. It should have been mandated the money could only be used for medical care patients needed because of smoking, not for whatever purpose each state chose to spend the money for. Most of the settlement money was spent for things unrelated to health care and didn't reduce any insurance premiums. It's been known smoking causes illnesses since the 1920's, maybe longer, so choosing to smoke is a willfull choice. But the cost of smoking caused illnesses costs non-smokers as well as smokers. I hope higher premiums convince smokers it's not a good choice. Especially because the smell of burning tobacco makes me queasy (feel like throwing-up), and I meet a lot of other people who are affected the same. It would be nice to be friends with people I now avoid.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

heffernb said:


> heffernb said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


again, it comes down to taking responsibility for life style choices...where one lives, how one lives, etc. Yes, a level of health care should be available to those who can't work, or have low paying jobs, the unemployed, but all things cannot be equal. The first thing to examine would be the benefits our president, and members of the House and Congress receive. No union members should be excluded from the requirements of participating in obamacare or any other edicts that are handed down for the masses. It is too complicated and the 'simple' decisions seem to be negatively affecting those who shouldn't be punished.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thebetters2010 said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Hotpot said:
> ...


I personally know of a few people who lived in Canada and England, and have needed to travel to the US to receive life-saving medical care that they could not get, or could not get in a timely manner due to socialized medicine. One unintended consequence of Obamacare will be fewer available doctors, and even fewer doctors who will be willing to treat patients who do not have private insurance.


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## AuntKnitty (Apr 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


Good...it's high time that people who risk their lives and health with cigarettes actually pay for that. I wish they'd do the same with people who drink too. I would have to pay nearly twice what the average health care premium is because I'm over-weight, so I've never thought it right that people who smoke AREN'T penalized the way that I am.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Then don't click on obvious sites that discuss the topic.


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## knittingcanuk (Nov 12, 2012)

Living in Canada, I know that we have too few doctors (which we are now fixing by allowing NP's to have their own offices and patients) and sometimes it seems you have to wait a long time for appointments but I didn't find this true in my case when I was diagnosed with cancer.

When I had my follow up after my surgery, the doctor told me I had cancer and next week I was to see a specialist. After I saw that specialist, I was given four weeks to recover from the surgery, and went through my five weeks of radiation during which I saw the oncologist who, after I was to have four weeks' rest after the radiation, had me come in for my chemotherapy. The only "non treatment" time I had was recovery time from one treatment to another.

Also, today, I had to book a liver ultrasound to check two growths on my liver and I told her not to book this week as we are snowstorms outside and I got an appointment a week Wednesday as I have to have an early appointment as it's a fasting test. I don't consider that a long wait.

Sorry to be such a long post but I didn't know to shorten it. I know there are problems with our health care system, too, but unfortunately, nothing is perfect and so far, I've been quite satisfied. It might be very different though in very large cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver .... 

Just my two cents' worth.


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## 29426 (Jul 26, 2011)

Laurenb53 said:


> Not going into politics, but just need some encouragement. This is day four of no cigarettes and the little man on my shoulder is screaming just stop on your way to work and buy a pack.


Good luck to you. You can do it. Take it 5 minutes at a time if you have to, but quit! Use the money to treat yourself to something social. Good thoughts coming your way.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Working in the medical field in my state I can tell you that plenty of people from Canada come here for care and treatment due to the unavailability or untimeliness of care needed in their home country. It's not all to everyone.



momeee said:


> thebetters2010 said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We have too few doctors here. That means poorer health care. They don't have the time. I was told not go come in to see my doctor. He said to go to the emergency room!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

mirjana said:


> do you take your social security checks?


NO , I am not allowed take MY Social Security checks because I worked in a state (MA.) where as a teacher I was required to pay into the teacher's pension fund - but still paid into SS, both through my teacher's check as well as when I worked in the summers, and before and after my teaching career. Because I get a measly pension, it is counted against what I would normally get from my SS...but the government in MA won't allow 'double dipping', even though it is MY earnings that were deducted and cannot now be accessed.

Here is something most people don't realize...

SOCIAL SECURITY NOW CALLED 'FEDERAL BENEFIT PAYMENT'/ENTITLEMENT! Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a"Federal Benefit Payment"?

The government is now referring to our Social Security checks as a "Federal Benefit Payment." This isn't a benefit - its earned income! Not only did we all (workers) contribute to Social Security but our employers did too.

It totaled 15% of our income before taxes. If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security. If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer's contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate
compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

This is your personal investment.

Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month. That's almost three times more than today's average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month, according to the Social Security Administration (Google it - it's a fact).

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low-risk interest-earning accounts.

Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took our money and used it elsewhere. They "forgot" that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn't have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them.

And they didn't pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently, they've told us that the money won't support us for very much longer. But is it our fault they misused our investments?

And now, to add insult to injury, they're calling it a "benefit," as if we never worked to earn every penny of it. Just because they "borrowed" the money, doesn't mean that our investments were a charity!

We have earned our right to Social Security and Medicare. We should demand that our legislators bring some sense into our government - Find a way to keep Social Security and Medicare going, for the sake of that 92% of our population who need it.

Then call it what it is: Our Earned Retirement Income.

I wonder how well our federal employees (Obama and cohorts, as well as his predecessors) have fared in this money grab?


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## sandraanny (Oct 29, 2012)

i'm probably going to make many folks angry, but here goes... couldn't let it go...

i believe there is solid documentation and evidence that smoking is a leading contributor of our escalating health care costs. it is an individual choice that costs the entire nation billions of otherwise-better-spent national dollars --our dollars. while i do defend any person's right to dispose of themselves in whatever manner they so choose, i don't feel that all of the rest of us should be stuck with the funeral bills.

as to the national health care plan, it seems reasonable to me that it would be plausible for one to seek out more comprehensive information about the entire package rather than relying on media hype and very subjective sound bites...

well, that's my rant. i'll probably be banned from the forum, but that may be the price i have to pay.. promise, all further subjects will be confined to knitting. thanks for the ear.

p.s. i also think, having had my say, that all politics should be banned from our forum. there are many other avenues to become actively involved in the HC discussion.


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## Linda-Gail (Sep 25, 2011)

Smokers are sick more often, and are sick longer than non-smokers. Of course they should pay more -- they are indulging in a habit that has been proven to be potentially lethal.


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## sibergirl (May 4, 2011)

I don't smoke so this won't affect me. We all need to remember that although the President signed this law, it is the Congress which enacted the legislation. Why not let your senators and congressmen know your feelings? 

This is a good time to make lemons out of lemonade. If you are a smoker, QUIT. Not only will you avoid the health care penalty, but you will also be healthier and save some money.


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## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


On any health plan there was always an additional charge for smokers so don't be blaming that on Obama ... He's already being blamed for way too much that has nothing to do with him


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher. Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*


You always make a lot of sense. Amen


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This is terrible news. Is this the doings of Obama? Wow. Thanks for the info.


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## momskii (Oct 25, 2012)

Britty43 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.
> ...


I work at a hospital, and about 5 years ago, they made it a policy that you couldn't smoke in, on, or near any of the hospital buildings. Two years ago, they made it a policy that if you smoked or your spouse smoked the amount you paid for your health benefits was increased by $250 a year each. Granted I think a smoker should pay more, but it still annoys me that they want to take away your rights to smoke in your own house/car. I have never smoked, but I understand how hard it is for someone to try to stop.


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## colleenmay (Apr 5, 2012)

momeee said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Obama is a joke.
> ...


Why can't people see this?????????????


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## momskii (Oct 25, 2012)

colleenmay said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


the young people don't care and just think that he is black, he is for change and change is what we are getting. We just don't like the changes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I see it. I don't know why others don't.


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## luv (Feb 19, 2012)

Unless Obama has quit smoking will he pay more?


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Linda-Gail said:


> Smokers are sick more often, and are sick longer than non-smokers. Of course they should pay more -- they are indulging in a habit that has been proven to be potentially lethal.


The devil is in the detail: 'potentially' lethal.

I've already posted about the 10% rate for smokers contracting lung cancer. I've tried to come up with better figures, but the way they are presented is confusing. The clearest I've come across is deep in a Cancer Research site - for British Isles, the incidence is 60 per 100,000 of population. Those figures do not differentiate between smokers and non-smokers.

I think if there was a clear difference we would be bombarded with it!

Both my parents smoked lifelong and died of natural causes. The only 2 people I know to have had lung cancer were both non-smokers.

My only objection is to being presented with false or exaggerated data. I don't smoke, but I do realise many people find it a valuable way to relax. And they continue to do so not because they are stupid but because they do not see in their everyday lives much ill effect.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

P.S. He had Hillary Clinton on 60 Minutes last night. They both are setting her up for running for president in 2016. They discussed topics that could stand in her way - just to get them out of the way.


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## Dory (May 4, 2011)

I totally agree with you! I am so sick and tired of people complaining about the President. He is the President and we all need to have 'some' respect. I use to enjoy going out on Faccebook and connecting with Friends but then the political garbage starts. Enough is enough I say.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He should pay more because a sickness down the road could have been caused by his smoking.


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## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I see it. I don't know why others don't.


Lucy,

I'm curious, what is it that you see?


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> You should read UKIP policies -


I have but do you think it's right to tell someone what she SHOULD do?

Sounds like Big Brother to me ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

victoria1953 said:


> We are all going to be paying a lot more.I am 59 and have been disabled since the age of 34 all this time I have had Medicare.I am going to loose coverage on a lot of things and hope to God that I don't get any worse than I am right now.


Well hold on tight. If the republicans ever get complete control, social security and medicare and medicaid will be completely gone. That is what they have always wanted to do. If you are poor in this country you will be on your own.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > You should read UKIP policies -
> ...


Dear me, you are very sensitive!

I used 'should' as a suggestion, not an order. If someone says to you, "You should go and see that film!" do you accuse them of ordering you to go and see it?!!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

flhusker said:


> Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it. Every time there is a budget crunch it's social security that gets threatened. All the politician seem to forget that is money we earned and loaned to them with the promise that we would get it back.


What world are you living in? It is not Obama that wants to do anything to social security or medicare. It is the republicans always talking about cutting entitlements, not President Obama. Be very careful if this country ever has a republican president along with a republican house and senate. It is getting so much worse now with the tea party in the mix. All they talk about is government spending. Bush started his presidency with a surplus and squandered it all on two unfunded wars. Now the republicans won't even fund Sandy relief and clean up without there being cuts someplace else to pay for it. Where were they when Bush invaded Iraq? Nobody said a word about how to pay for it then.


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## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

Mellina said:


> Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.


Has Obamacare been implemented yet?


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## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

Scottishlady said:


> Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...


I don't think all of theACA has gone into effect yet


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## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

NJG said:


> flhusker said:
> 
> 
> > Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it. Every time there is a budget crunch it's social security that gets threatened. All the politician seem to forget that is money we earned and loaned to them with the promise that we would get it back.
> ...


Where do you get your information? Just curious... not here to fight with anyone!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

rockyjfs1991 said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...
> ...


No it hasn't (2014)...
BUT, some of the insurance companies have openly admitted that they had to raise premiums because of the cost associated with complying to the ACA.
They are just passing the buck down to us to pay for it.

So yes, Mr. Obama, it is increasing (not decreasing).
They are just doing it to stay ahead of the game, because they won't be able to do much after it goes into effect.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> I have but do you think it's right to tell someone what she SHOULD do?
> 
> Sounds like Big Brother to me ...


Dear me, you are very sensitive!

/quote]

Me? Sensitive??

LOL! More skins than an onion, me.

No, I'm provocative :-D


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Yes, some parts of it already have gone into effect.



rockyjfs1991 said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...
> ...


----------



## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.


I do, I think quite frankly, he is the worst President in the history of the United States, but that is my opinion. There is nothing we can do about it now, he is in office, and let's see how much further he is going to continue to destroy us.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher. Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*


Amen!


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Scottishlady said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.
> ...


Awe aye the Scots don't have blinkers on


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

grandmaof7 said:


> I thought ObamaCare was free! Thanks everyone who voted for him!!!!


Your welcome, I voted for him twice and proud of it. Obamacare was never going to be free, and was never suppose to be free.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

Scottishlady said:


> Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...


I'm being sarcastic too, I suppose..no, not really!.. The thing is DH and I have already seen Health premiums go up and that's not funny. A lot of drug addicts and others are drawing SSI checks, disability checks and EBT money and selling the EBT amount for drug money!!!! It is a disgrace, but the people that work for the government just keep dishing out the free stuff and taking it from the working people. As always, The burden lands on the back of the people who work and pay their OWN expenses.


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## flhusker (Feb 17, 2011)

Has anyone read the book 1984 the premisis is the Big Brother will take over all aspects take of you life. Everyone laughed at the time saying it could never happen will it has.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> If you are referring to social security as an entitlement I disagree with that premise. SS is something that I've paid into all my working life. It's money that is due to me.
> 
> If the politicians hadn't salivated over how much money SS _used_ to have and then raided it for whatever pet project they wanted at the time leaving behind worthless IOUs then it would have plenty of money left.
> 
> ...


Social security should be called an earned benefit, because that is what it is. It should not be called an entitlement.


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.


Lucy,,,, What is it that people don't see?


----------



## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

unie said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher. Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*
> ...


I agree, very well put!


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## sholen (Mar 1, 2011)

Sure wish you were head of "operations" for the Feds. Logical and sound advice...so I guess they wouldn't hire you!!!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Scottishlady said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.
> ...


Young Americans voted based on sound-bites, promises and lies. They did not do the research/reading necessary to reveal his shortcomings. They listened to the TV stations and read the newspapers or on-line postings that said what they wanted to believe. I agree with both of you, plus he is divisive and contrary to his promises, he is not collaborative and does not believe in compromise. He certainly can't ride on the coattails of his first reign in terms of accomplishments. I have yet to see, read, or hear anything positive that he has done. Protecting himself and his buddies seems to be paramount. Pandering to those who contribute nothing to the country; looking to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants; skipping critical national security meetings while vacationing, and attempting to be cool while appearing on late-night TV are hardly worthy of respect or presidential. He has never been held accountable for Benghazi. He wants gun bans but votes himself life time secret service protection. He is hypocritical, narcissistic and dishonest, in my opinion. Respect is earned by one's actions and beliefs. The office of president deserves a man who is respectful of America, her history and her security and should not look to diminish her in the eyes of the world.


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## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

Scottishlady said:


> unie said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


Unie, It's like the good old "gladiator days"... This is what the general public wants and this is what they get.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > flhusker said:
> ...


And also the problem is that the republicans are doing everything they can to stop him regardless of what it does to our country. I believe that he wants what is best for our country and the republicans want what is best for the wealthy and then it is suppose to trickle down to everyone else. Only problem is, it doesn't trickle down that far as we found out from 12 years of tax cuts for the rich. It is because of the republicans that out credit rating was lowered. I still believe that what it all boils down to is the republicans can not stand the fact that there is a black man in the white house. They will never admit it, but never before have they been so admit about making the president fail regardless of how it hurts the US. I just don't see any other explanation for why it has gotten so partisan.


----------



## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

unie said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, mine went up $60.00 a month. Didn't Obama say it was supposed to go down? instead it's going up????? And for smokers I heard it will cost 5,000 for their premiums, yearly...
> ...


Yes, and it's going to get worse!


----------



## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

momeee said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I agree with you on every single point. Very, very well said. Thank you for speaking up!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Well said Momeee. Especially your last sentence. If he cared about America, he wouldn't want to transform her and would definitely abide by the oath of office he took to protect her.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

smsgreeneyes said:


> I have to pay my premiums every quarter. 3 years ago it was $1400 per quarter plus $35 because we smoke. Last year went to $ 1800 plus 75 for smoking. This year...... 2000 per quarter plus 150.


But you have some control over part of that. Quit smoking.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Scottishlady said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Scottishlady said:
> ...


I agree and Young Americans do not have to deal with household budgets morgages ect so they don't have a true sense of what a tole its taking on the WORKING folks.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Laurenb53 said:


> Not going into politics, but just need some encouragement. This is day four of no cigarettes and the little man on my shoulder is screaming just stop on your way to work and buy a pack.


Good luck, keep it up. You tell that little man to be quiet and use that cigarette money to do something for yourself. I have never smoked, but I always put my change in a jar and after it builds up, I spend it on myself. Do that with your cigarette money. You deserve it.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> 'Big Brother'
> 
> In my view, we in the UK are ruled by powerful forces in the media, especially the BBC (who are very partial about what info they give us) the Murdoch-type press with their close links to government, and politicians. These form what I call the metro-elite in charge of the funding (with our taxes) of government here.
> It can't have escaped your notice that politicians have voted themselves expenses and gold-plated pensions while the rest of the country struggles.
> ...


Big Brother was not a generic term for all those who seek power over us, or funds from us - another way of gaining power.
Orwell's Big Brother was about being watched.

Wind generation does work. I think you've been reading the antagonistic journalists - who are themselves politicians even though not in Parliament.

Who pays for climate change? The whole world. If you don't like alternative power generation I suggest that you don't use those appliances which use electricity.

I don't know what you mean by 'who pays', or for what. I probably am listed among those 'who can least afford to' because we live on the basic state pension.

As it happens we live very well, our fuel bills are extremely low. I cook on the wood burning stove in winter, we have pv panels to generate electricity but we don't have power hungry appliances. We don't have new furniture or holidays - when you don't have gainful employment life is a long holiday. Our car is rarely used.

But we'd be very happy to pay more for alternative energy sources in order to help prevent the damaging effects of climate change on every country in the world - which means people.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

PittyPat said:


> Ironic....I have read that Obama smokes. Won't matter, Washington doesn't have to follow Obamacare. I have not verified the smoking issue.... PittyPat


Congress will be start on Obamacare in 2014. The republicans brought up bills to repeal Obamacare 34 times since it was passed. The first thing crazy Michelle Bachman did at the beginning of congress this year was to try one more time to repeal Obamacare. I think the rest of the republicans finally decided to give it up as no one would cosponsor the bill with her. Do you think maybe there was something else they could have spent their time on? Shows where their priorities are. Like I said before, they just want to destroy him no matter what happens to us.


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > 'Big Brother'
> ...


Big Brother would be proud of you!

But should you really be burning polluting wood?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > 'Big Brother'
> ...


Wind generation works up to a point. It cannot be stored the way fossil fuel energy can. It cannot be "sold" to other states when needed. For example, the TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority, can sell electricity to other states in their grid that require additional energy. This cannot be done with wind or solar energy to date.

In order to prevent the damaging effects of climate change (if it exists at all) is to get ALL countries involved. Until that is done, time and money is just being wasted. To save the planet, it's an all or nothing proposition otherwise it is just the few doing for the many.


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > silvercharms said:
> ...


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are referring to social security as an entitlement I disagree with that premise. SS is something that I've paid into all my working life. It's money that is due to me.
> ...


I think Social Security is an "entitlement" because those of us who paid in are entitled to receive our benefits.

What is NOT an entitlement is welfare, medicade, food stamps, etc. ... those are HANDOUTS!

And, of course, the government tries to find any and all ways to screw us out of those earned benefits from Social Security.

I worked for 20 years as a Paralegal and paid into SS the whole time. Part of that time, I also worked at home transcribing for Court Reporters. For the work at home I paid double into SS because there was not an employer paying the other half.

I quit that type of work in 1992. If I had never worked another day in my life I would have been eligible to receive "X" dollars in SS when I reached 65.

Then I went to work for a municipality and worked there for 20 years where my employer and I paid into a pension fund.

Now, because I am drawing a pension from my job at the city, I will be penalized 50% on the "X" dollars that I would have drawn from SS.

Double dipping? I think not. Double dipping from whom?

My government pension has nothing whatsoever to do with SS or the federal government. The federal government had no input into my pension.

It's just another way for the government to steal my money!


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

momskii said:


> Britty43 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Nobody is taking the right to smoke in your own house or car. The hospital policy is just saying you are costing them more in insurance, absenteeism etc. so you must make up the difference.


----------



## Strickliese (Jan 6, 2012)

momeee said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Amen to that.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> I cannot believe folks are not outraged that the politicians do not have to also be in the Obamacare program What happened to Congress shall pass no law that is not used by all citizens including government (paraphrazing)?


They will be in the program starting in 2014.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

gretchen said:


> The Government doesnt care about you.They have their own healthcare and we can all stuff it as far as they are concerned. To add an extra kick in your butt you will now shoulder the burden of every free rider on society too. If you voted for Mr Obama you cant complain. Also, Id like to add the increase in my insurance to your monthly bill. Kindly let us know your address.....back to my knitting...


This is the third time I have said this, but congress does start on Obamacare in 2014. I voted for President Obama and I am not complaining, but why would you think poor people don't deserve healthcare? If the republicans ever get their hands on my medicare, I will be complaining. That does worry me.


----------



## domsmum (Jun 20, 2012)

Sometimes we have similar arguments about the NHS in the UK which is paid for through a national insurance/tax system. People say smokers should pay more or drinkers or whatever. But it would get horribly complicated - for example I drive a lot on country roads which are statistically quite unsafe - should I pay more?
On the other hand life insurance and income protection insurance are significantly more expensive for smokers here.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

TO Peachy51- how right you are! Your money should remain your money. You earned it and were obligated to contribute to the pension AND SS, as I was. The government has confiscated our money, plain and simple.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

momeee said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I am an old American and voted for Mr. Obama both times and worked the phones on election day. Our ratings as a country have risen in the eyes of world since he took office. The idea that he is unwilling to compromise is just wrong. I believe that description would fall to Mr. Boener. Our President has compromised many of his ideas for the future in an effort to satisfy the House's fickle demands. His idealism, in my eyes, has diminished slightly because he has been forced to sacrifice some of his plans (is that not compromise?)
Vacations? check this out...http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7377211n I don't know that he got to vote for security for himself. Far as I know, Presidents don't vote in the Legislature; they are in the Executive Branch. Since I understand that he gets over 400 death threats a day, it stands to reason, protection is required. I am certain all previous Presidents have experienced death threats as well. It is the nature of the position. He doesn't have to attempt to look cool on late night tv. He IS cool.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

To NJG. I believe that poor people deserve help and a safety net...not lifetime support. (Working folks who are underpaid could perhaps be granted annual stipends by the government to bring them up to a living wage.)NOt sure where I read it, but the actual cost of keeping a person on welfare with all the bennies costs the govt. approx. $60,000. a year- more than a living wage, I 'd guess. I also believe that we are responsible for ourselves. If one is able and charitable, then how you choose to share your good fortune, is your own private business. I DO NOT believe in generational welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, free housing, fuel, child care, and phones! Those who cannot work due to medical or mental issues should also be part of the safety net. I do not believe the non-workers deserve what I've worked and saved for. Very few people are totally unable to contribute to society, i.e., see sheltered programs for the handicapped, and those who choose to not work because they get more by being slugs should not be allowed to remain in the handout system. It sounds harsh, but I think this country is heading for a startling 'wake-up' call and it won't be pleasant.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree with Mz Molly. No more politics please. We all had our chance to vote, which I did. Now we just have to let the government fight it out. None of us are going to come out of it unscathed, no matter what your age.


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## lfitzie (Apr 4, 2011)

We ain't seen nothing yet. If you sell your house there is a tax for Obamacare. I'm so relieved that our Congressmen and Senators are exempt from Obamacare.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> I am an old American and voted for Mr. Obama both times and worked the phones on election day. Our ratings as a country have risen in the eyes of world since he took office. The idea that he is unwilling to compromise is just wrong.


Where in the world did you get this information?



> I believe that description would fall to Mr. Boener. Our President has compromised many of his ideas for the future in an effort to satisfy the House's fickle demands. His idealism, in my eyes, has diminished slightly because he has been forced to sacrifice some of his plans (is that not compromise?)
> Vacations? check this out...http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7377211n I don't know that he got to vote for security for himself. Far as I know, Presidents don't vote in the Legislature; they are in the Executive Branch. Since I understand that he gets over 400 death threats a day, it stands to reason, protection is required. I am certain all previous Presidents have experienced death threats as well. It is the nature of the position. He doesn't have to attempt to look cool on late night tv. He IS cool.


So you think it's cool that he bows to the leaders of the Arab nations? And it's cool that he doesn't follow the Constitution? A Constitution that has served this country well for over 200 years? And it's cool that if Congress doesn't do what he wants, he just passes an Executive Order? And it's cool that he has totally ignored Israel ever since he took office? And it's cool that he apologizes to the rest of the world when our ambassadors and military are attacked?

I guess your idea of "cool" and mine are far, far apart.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Momeee said: Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took our money and used it elsewhere. They "forgot" that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn't have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them.

Explanation:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505146_162-57529134/does-congress-raid-social-security/


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I respectfully disagree. We need to contact our elected representatives and let them know our thoughts on issues. After all, they were elected to represent us. They can't do so knowledgeably if we don't let them know how we feel on issues. Just because the election is over doesn't mean our responsibilities are over.



Nussa said:


> I agree with Mz Molly. No more politics please. We all had our chance to vote, which I did. Now we just have to let the government fight it out. None of us are going to come out of it unscathed, no matter what your age.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

momeee said:


> To NJG. I believe that poor people deserve help and a safety net...not lifetime support. (Working folks who are underpaid could perhaps be granted annual stipends by the government to bring them up to a living wage.)NOt sure where I read it, but the actual cost of keeping a person on welfare with all the bennies costs the govt. approx. $60,000. a year- more than a living wage, I 'd guess. I also believe that we are responsible for ourselves. If one is able and charitable, then how you choose to share your good fortune, is your own private business. I DO NOT believe in generational welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, free housing, fuel, child care, and phones! Those who cannot work due to medical or mental issues should also be part of the safety net. I do not believe the non-workers deserve what I've worked and saved for. Very few people are totally unable to contribute to society, i.e., see sheltered programs for the handicapped, and those who choose to not work because they get more by being slugs should not be allowed to remain in the handout system. It sounds harsh, but I think this country is heading for a startling 'wake-up' call and it won't be pleasant.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Hear! Hear!


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## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

OLdhenwife

Big Brother would be proud of you because you have swallowed the whole package, kit and caboodle, about carbon dioxide, wind farms, climate change and so on, despite the evidence against it. That evidence has been systematically suppressed in the interests of the many companies involved, and 'scientists' who want to make a name and get more funding.

Big Brother's ideal is a docile population who believe what they are told by a benevolent TV system - BBC, anyone?

By the way, burning wood produces carbon dioxide, water and many toxic chemicals. We live in a smokeless zone, and to burn wood we would need a stove with a filter or scrubber.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I agree with Mz Molly. No more politics please. We all had our chance to vote, which I did. Now we just have to let the government fight it out. None of us are going to come out of it unscathed, no matter what your age.


And no one is forcing you to read this thread or respond. This is the General Chit Chat section of this forum and members should be able to discuss what they wish here. You are not obligated to participate.


----------



## lfitzie (Apr 4, 2011)

Obama made an "executive order" to extend he and his family's security FOR LIFE. This dictator has been using "executive orders" to get what he knows right well will never pass in Congress......like amnesty for illegals before the election to garner 3 million more votes. You should open your eyes. This country is a joke in the eyes of the world. $16 trillion in debt and he continues to spend like a drunken sailor. This debt is being passed down to our children and grandchildren. Accepting Obama's policies is the ultimate in selfishness.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Linda-Gail said:


> Smokers are sick more often, and are sick longer than non-smokers. Of course they should pay more -- they are indulging in a habit that has been proven to be potentially lethal.


Besides what they are doing to their family that lives with them. What a way to treat your kids or grand kids.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I respectfully disagree. We need to contact our elected representatives and let them know our thoughts on issues. After all, they were elected to represent us. They can't do so knowledgeably if we don't let them know how we feel on issues. Just because the election is over doesn't mean our responsibilities are over.


I agree and I do correspond with my representatives on a regular basis.


----------



## Scottishlady (Jan 13, 2013)

lfitzie said:


> Obama made an "executive order" to extend he and his family's security FOR LIFE. This dictator has been using "executive orders" to get what he knows right well will never pass in Congress......like amnesty for illegals before the election to garner 3 million more votes. You should open your eyes. This country is a joke in the eyes of the world. $16 trillion in debt and he continues to spend like a drunken sailor. This debt is being passed down to our children and grandchildren. Accepting Obama's policies is the ultimate in selfishness.


Nicely put, I agree with you completely. My grandchildren are in a world of hurt when they grow up. I will be saying to them, "when I was little... those were the "good old days".


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## EmLynn62 (Jun 29, 2012)

flohel said:


> Well smokers are actually damageing their health by lighting up. They knowingly do this so why should the non smokers foot the bill. My auto insurance gives a discount if one is a non smoker.


People knowingly ingest chemicals in what they eat everyday....preservatives...and everything you can't pronounce on a label.....they knowingly drink alchool even if its not good for your health......people take tylenols...aspirin...aleve...any pain killer knowing its full of chemicals....
canning your own veggies instead of buying a can at the store wouldn't make much difference since everything is grown in chemicals.....don't give babies real milk....give them formula that's full of chemicals...then they can be allergic to milk of have lactose intolerance.....
It can be a never ending list of things....everyone puts something in their body every day knowing that it will make them sick so no one should be singled out....

OOOOps i forgot....you shouldn't intentional breath either because the air is really polluted, what's in there can be worse then your neighbor's cigarette smoke


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

silvercharms said:


> Linda-Gail said:
> 
> 
> > Smokers are sick more often, and are sick longer than non-smokers. Of course they should pay more -- they are indulging in a habit that has been proven to be potentially lethal.
> ...


In a health class I saw a lung that had been taken from a person that had died after being a life long smoker and one from a person that had died of natural causes. I think everyone should have to see that. They were both in plastic bags and if you opened the smokers lung bag, it smelled like an ash tray and was black. If you really believe what you stated above you need to do some research. You might want to start with this link.

http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/lung-cancer/resources/facts-figures/lung-cancer-fact-sheet.html


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rockyjfs1991 said:


> Mellina said:
> 
> 
> > Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.
> ...


----------



## wurzel (Aug 6, 2012)

When the NHS was first launched in England, it was wonderful. Then people abused it - having spectacles, new teeth, mostly not really needed. It wasted so much money - we now have to pay for everything - medicines included. It is often much cheaper to buy over the counter. However, I have a lot to say thank you for - two new hips, spinal surgery and Open Heart surgery. Without the NHS - we would have been bankrupt! Both my husband and I have paid into the NHS ever since it came into being by weekly contributions.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

We have insurance through my husbands job. The delectable for a year went up from $2,500 a person, to $3,500 a person in 2012. But we can't be without insurance. Those with insurance are paying for those without. At least that's how it works in the US.


grandmatimestwo said:


> Mellina said:
> 
> 
> > Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.
> ...


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Well, for one thing, he is ending wars that were started under false pretenses. Our friends and allies were stuck sending their own into harm's way because they are allies. Now that we are pulling out, the allies can bring home their own. Also, this President can actually speak with wisdom and proper vocabulary. We don't look quite so stupid anymore. What is it that you want to know about Benghazi? Seems to me, that that issue has been explained, regretted remorsefully ad nauseum.

Please cite examples on how he doesn't follow the constitution. What do you mean by bows to Arab leaders? If you mean "actually" bending at the waist...it's called cultural decorum. When Arab leaders come here, they shake hands...cultural decorum. If you mean giving in to them, you'll need to help me out there. I don't see that.

I am going to ignore Israel right here too. I want procure more information on that before I voice my opinion. I do have an opinion, just not ready to voice it. 


peachy51 said:


> knovice knitter said:
> 
> 
> > I am an old American and voted for Mr. Obama both times and worked the phones on election day. Our ratings as a country have risen in the eyes of world since he took office. The idea that he is unwilling to compromise is just wrong.
> ...


----------



## Linda-Gail (Sep 25, 2011)

Actually,since Obama is a "closet smoker." Just another hypocritical politician.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

To peachy51, 
Again, we're in agreement. None are so blind as those who WON"T see.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Scottishlady said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > flhusker said:
> ...


Are you asking me or flhusker? I can give you links to my info if you like, but if you don't already know that Bush squandered a big surplus you are not paying attention. Also it has been all over the news how congress took so long on getting Sandy relief to the people in need and are still holding back some because they want spending cuts first. I think it is governments responsibility to help during natural disasters. Cedar Rapids, Iowa went through a huge flood in 2008, flooding that had never happened before, and rebuilding is still going on as it will in the north east long after everyone else has forgotten all about it. No one asked for spending cuts when they voted on Katrina relief, but that is the tea party republicans of today. Some of them believe the government should never have to help after natural disasters, till it happens in their state and then they have their hand out.


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## fibermcgivver (Dec 18, 2012)

I agree with mz. Molly! Many rumors floating about: take a deep breath and think calm thoughts... We seem to have an overabundance of hysteria here in America.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lfitzie said:


> We ain't seen nothing yet. If you sell your house there is a tax for Obamacare. I'm so relieved that our Congressmen and Senators are exempt from Obamacare.


You are wrong about the house selling thing. I have looked it up more than once and posted a link so I won't do it again, but you should google those kind of things instead of taking the info from an email or a right wing blog as fact. Our congressmen and president will start on Obamacare in 2014.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peachy51 said: So you think it's cool that he bows to the leaders of the Arab nations? And it's cool that he doesn't follow the Constitution? A Constitution that has served this country well for over 200 years? And it's cool that if Congress doesn't do what he wants, he just passes an Executive Order? And it's cool that he has totally ignored Israel ever since he took office? And it's cool that he apologizes to the rest of the world when our ambassadors and military are attacked?

Please provide some links to your information. I would like to read about where President Obama doesn't follow the constitution.


----------



## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

This obamacare is the worst thing I have ever seen. I thought I would be safe with my tricare prime but I am going to lose that in oct and be forced back to tricare standard. Copays will go through the roof. and I will have to use military hosp or I will have to submitt to using the VA hosp. since my hubby is 100% disabled I can go to the VA for medical care. I may just have to give up on healthcare and refuse care because this is terrible. Everyone is going to suffer.


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> peachy51 said: So you think it's cool that he bows to the leaders of the Arab nations? And it's cool that he doesn't follow the Constitution? A Constitution that has served this country well for over 200 years? And it's cool that if Congress doesn't do what he wants, he just passes an Executive Order? And it's cool that he has totally ignored Israel ever since he took office? And it's cool that he apologizes to the rest of the world when our ambassadors and military are attacked?
> 
> Please provide some links to your information. I would like to read about where President Obama doesn't follow the constitution.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/sep/16/obama-tears-up-the-constitution/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/01/25/yes-president-obama-constitution-applies-to-too/


----------



## peachy51 (Feb 9, 2012)

momeee said:


> To peachy51,
> Again, we're in agreement. None are so blind as those who WON"T see.


Yep, I hear ya ... done watching this thread ... it's hopeless :|


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

momeee said:


> To NJG. I believe that poor people deserve help and a safety net...not lifetime support. (Working folks who are underpaid could perhaps be granted annual stipends by the government to bring them up to a living wage.)NOt sure where I read it, but the actual cost of keeping a person on welfare with all the bennies costs the govt. approx. $60,000. a year- more than a living wage, I 'd guess. I also believe that we are responsible for ourselves. If one is able and charitable, then how you choose to share your good fortune, is your own private business. I DO NOT believe in generational welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, free housing, fuel, child care, and phones! Those who cannot work due to medical or mental issues should also be part of the safety net. I do not believe the non-workers deserve what I've worked and saved for. Very few people are totally unable to contribute to society, i.e., see sheltered programs for the handicapped, and those who choose to not work because they get more by being slugs should not be allowed to remain in the handout system. It sounds harsh, but I think this country is heading for a startling 'wake-up' call and it won't be pleasant.


I agree with most of what you have said. Here is a link to some truths about welfare I think you should read.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8134012_myths-welfare.html

You are sounding uninformed or miss informed like Mitt Romney was when he talked about the 47% because a lot of the 47% were the elderly and veterans. You can't link so many people in one group, when they each have their own story. 
I know a lot of people talk about "welfare moms" who keep having babies to collect welfare, but that hasn't been true since 1996 when the welfare reform act was passed. This country has gone through a deep recession and there have been a lot of people out of work, so guess what, more people have needed help.

Are there people that abuse the system? Of course there are. Are there wealthy people that abuse the tax system? Of course there are. Just because a person has a job and takes care of themselves doesn't mean they are a good person and just because someone is on welfare doesn't mean they are a bad person.


----------



## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

Well actually i think fitness can be a cult and why should they get away with being as silly as those who knowingly destroy their own health?

Speaking as one who might have given herself gallstones.


courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


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## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

Wow--17 pages and counting!!!


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## ACAROLG (Apr 30, 2011)

Dear Courier 770, I want to get down to brass tacks with you, I see your spinning wheel in your pic and my close knitting buddy and I are interested in learning to spin. What kind of wheel do you have and what do you think about it? We've just started looking into wheels and this past weekend I went to a knitting event and tried drop spindle, and suggestions for someone starting out? Thanks for anything you can tell me, April


----------



## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


How is it going to be proven that someone is a smoker?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

You are incorrect. If you sell a house at a profit that is a capital gain. Capital gains will have a surtax of 3.8% for households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93. This goes into effect this year.



NJG said:


> lfitzie said:
> 
> 
> > We ain't seen nothing yet. If you sell your house there is a tax for Obamacare. I'm so relieved that our Congressmen and Senators are exempt from Obamacare.
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

That is only in regards to federal benefits. Each state has their own rules in regards to state benefits.



NJG said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > To NJG. I believe that poor people deserve help and a safety net...not lifetime support. (Working folks who are underpaid could perhaps be granted annual stipends by the government to bring them up to a living wage.)NOt sure where I read it, but the actual cost of keeping a person on welfare with all the bennies costs the govt. approx. $60,000. a year- more than a living wage, I 'd guess. I also believe that we are responsible for ourselves. If one is able and charitable, then how you choose to share your good fortune, is your own private business. I DO NOT believe in generational welfare, Medicaid, food stamps, free housing, fuel, child care, and phones! Those who cannot work due to medical or mental issues should also be part of the safety net. I do not believe the non-workers deserve what I've worked and saved for. Very few people are totally unable to contribute to society, i.e., see sheltered programs for the handicapped, and those who choose to not work because they get more by being slugs should not be allowed to remain in the handout system. It sounds harsh, but I think this country is heading for a startling 'wake-up' call and it won't be pleasant.
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lfitzie said:


> Obama made an "executive order" to extend he and his family's security FOR LIFE. This dictator has been using "executive orders" to get what he knows right well will never pass in Congress......like amnesty for illegals before the election to garner 3 million more votes. You should open your eyes. This country is a joke in the eyes of the world. $16 trillion in debt and he continues to spend like a drunken sailor. This debt is being passed down to our children and grandchildren. Accepting Obama's policies is the ultimate in selfishness.


It was not by executive order, it was voted on and passed by congress. You should get your facts straight. Here is the link so you can read it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57563328-10391739/obama-restores-lifetime-secret-service-for-former-presidents

This country was a joke in the eyes of the world because of Bush, but thankfully that is being restored because of Obama.

Concerning spending here is another link so you can read about it, and where do you think a lot of the debt we have now came from?
Does two unfunded wars ring a bell for you?

http://www.policymic.com/articles/9069/has-obama-spent-more-than-any-other-u-s-president-in-history-yes-and-no

quote from above article:

There is no denying that Obama has spent more than any other president in U.S. history. That is a fact, but that also holds true for every president since Herbert Hoover.

What is interesting, and honestly surprised me, is that President Obama has increased the amount of government spending by a lower percentage than any previous president since Hoover when adjusted for inflation.


----------



## ssk1953 (Jan 29, 2012)

ginnyinnr said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.
> ...


Chest x-rays will tell if you're a smoker.


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Laurenb53 said:


> Cathy 47, I figured I would save about $150.00 per month. I am using the gum and it seems to be helping me, I WILL go past that door today. Thanks!


Chantix worked for me ... Smoked for 45 years and quit really easily 5 years ago


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## flhusker (Feb 17, 2011)

Actions speak louder than words. If Obamacare is so fantastic then why does he not give up the specialized health insurance given him as president and have Obamacare for his family.

BTW. He also needs to pay a fair tax on his income. He reported no income for Michelle. Don't tell me she made all those TV appearances for free out of the goodness of her heart. His income makes him one of the rich.

Also how many of you know that he is trying to do away with the 20th amendment - term limits. And if he can't get it done Mark my words Michelle will be running g for president.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> flhusker said:
> 
> 
> > Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it.
> ...


She has good thinking ability is why. We did not comment on your country so why be hateful and throw in your unwanted 2 cents!


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## maryladominicana (Apr 3, 2011)

Lukelucy I too concur with you and Ms .Molly and Christi Lets knit and crochet.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peachy51 said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > peachy51 said: So you think it's cool that he bows to the leaders of the Arab nations? And it's cool that he doesn't follow the Constitution? A Constitution that has served this country well for over 200 years? And it's cool that if Congress doesn't do what he wants, he just passes an Executive Order? And it's cool that he has totally ignored Israel ever since he took office? And it's cool that he apologizes to the rest of the world when our ambassadors and military are attacked?
> ...


Sorry, but Robert Knight is a right wing zealot that I refuse to take the time to read. Your second link is connected to fox news and I don't believe anything coming from there and Lloyd Green was the opposition research counsel to the George H.W. Bush campaign in 1988, so we know he is partisan.

I can find articles from the left that make your articles lies, so what is the point. The links have to be by-partisan.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ginnyinnr said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.
> ...


I'll bet their Dr would know.


----------



## dad's funnyface (Sep 1, 2012)

Alcoholics and drug addicts should be considered as risky as smokers.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ciyona said:


> This obamacare is the worst thing I have ever seen. I thought I would be safe with my tricare prime but I am going to lose that in oct and be forced back to tricare standard. Copays will go through the roof. and I will have to use military hosp or I will have to submitt to using the VA hosp. since my hubby is 100% disabled I can go to the VA for medical care. I may just have to give up on healthcare and refuse care because this is terrible. Everyone is going to suffer.


You are so right! Just wait until those Obo supporters start paying for their Obo insurance--the laughter will stop!


----------



## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

If they're lit.


ginnyinnr said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes! Obama is the WORST.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> ginnyinnr said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


You can smell smoke all over the person--clothing, hair and hands.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

EmLynn62 said:


> flohel said:
> 
> 
> > Well smokers are actually damageing their health by lighting up. They knowingly do this so why should the non smokers foot the bill. My auto insurance gives a discount if one is a non smoker.
> ...


oh I love it and so much truth. Seems some forget no one and I mean no one is getting off this earth alive. :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

flhusker said:


> Actions speak louder than words. If Obamacare is so fantastic then why does he not give up the specialized health insurance given him as president and have Obamacare for his family.
> 
> BTW. He also needs to pay a fair tax on his income. He reported no income for Michelle. Don't tell me she made all those TV appearances for free out of the goodness of her heart. His income makes him one of the rich.
> 
> Also how many of you know that he is trying to do away with the 20th amendment - term limits. And if he can't get it done Mark my words Michelle will be running g for president.


Ok time to mark as unwatch. I am starting to laugh at all this crap.


----------



## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

ssk1953 said:


> ginnyinnr said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


every person over 18 in the US will have an appointment for a chest xray?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

NJG said:


> flhusker said:
> 
> 
> > Actions speak louder than words. If Obamacare is so fantastic then why does he not give up the specialized health insurance given him as president and have Obamacare for his family.
> ...


I really think you should too. As it seems no one is listening to your words of wisdom. But then I myself don't listen to anyone who lives in a fair tale land and believes everthing about her President is perfect. But oh the fairy tale isn't over yet. You wait and see who will be the fairy Mother and Who will Not be the handsome Prince when all is said and done. Open your eyes lady it's 2013 and Obama care has taken effect , just check your with holding on your pay check. That will make you a believer, but wait when SS comes down to pennies maybe then. He has been the slowest at spending money, can't blame Bush anymore can he. He is not a prince he is making the working class in this country poorer then the poor, they have more benfits than I will ever have.


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

Omnivore said:


> If they're lit.
> 
> 
> ginnyinnr said:
> ...


I didn't put that picture in my reply, the one with the man having about 50 cigarettes in his mouth. I don't know how it got there. I am not happy about that.


----------



## ssk1953 (Jan 29, 2012)

ginnyinnr said:


> ssk1953 said:
> 
> 
> > ginnyinnr said:
> ...


Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We are irouble with Obama.


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

]

How is it going to be proven that someone is a smoker?[/quote]

Chest x-rays will tell if you're a smoker.[/quote]

every person over 18 in the US will have an appointment for a chest xray?[/quote]

Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.[/quote]

I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.


----------



## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > flhusker said:
> ...


Come on people. It's getting nasty now and it's not fair on others using the site. We are all part of a fantastic site that offers not only great advice and information about knitting and crochet but other off subject topics as well. I love reading everyone's comments but when it starts to get nasty and catty, I say it is time to STOP and change the subject. There are always gong to be those out there who don't like the current administration in their own country - no matter how good they are. Fume and grump away in your own homes behind closed doors, but please don't throw that hatred at us, especially those of us who don't even live on your side of the world let alone in your country.


----------



## ssk1953 (Jan 29, 2012)

ginnyinnr said:


> ]
> 
> How is it going to be proven that someone is a smoker?


Chest x-rays will tell if you're a smoker.[/quote]

every person over 18 in the US will have an appointment for a chest xray?[/quote]

Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.[/quote]

I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.[/quote]

I don't know. It's worrisome isn't it? I keep hoping and praying something will happen to change all this mess coming down the pike regarding healthcare. It scares me to death just thinking about it.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> victoria1953 said:
> 
> 
> > We are all going to be paying a lot more.I am 59 and have been disabled since the age of 34 all this time I have had Medicare.I am going to loose coverage on a lot of things and hope to God that I don't get any worse than I am right now.
> ...


Oh, dear me, did someone p___in your cornflakes this morning? Repubs are not so bad --I'm one! Get a life --have some fun.

Children in Avatar children or grands? Cute.


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Mellina said:


> Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.


I'm retired and I pay for my Health Insurance coverage out of my Pension which DECREASED $26 a month because of Obamacare!!!!!

Of course, none of which benefit me at all.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Nocturnal1961 said:


> I will drop my husband if his smoking make my insurance payments go way up.


Uh Oh! I am in the same boat with you. We have been married almost 48 years and I can't get him to quit. I have never smoked. Now that I am retired, his smoking is bothering me more than it did when I worked. Probably because I am around him more. What to do, what to do?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

ginnyinnr said:


> Omnivore said:
> 
> 
> > If they're lit.
> ...


We have hackers on this site as some words are put under my name, but I did not write them!


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Joan Thelma said:


> Mellina said:
> 
> 
> > Everybody is going to be paying alot more. Mine went up $35 a pay period.
> ...


How can they take away from your pension? I thought pensions are fixed. I get two pensions and they remain the same no matter what. On the other hand, social security changes. They are taking more out of social security for medicare this year than they did last year.


----------



## rlmayknit (Mar 14, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


Very good point, where will it end? rlmayknit


----------



## ginger c (Apr 8, 2012)

I agree 100% :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> Joan Thelma said:
> 
> 
> > Mellina said:
> ...


NO my Pension is NOT fixed. I have my Federal and State Taxes taken out it (get it all back when I file my Income Taxes), and I have to pay a certain percentage of the Health Insurance (which also includes prescription coverage)provided by the company I worked for (Hartford Insurance Co.-part of ITT) and it does NOT carry any cost of living increases. The Medicare on my SS check did NOT reflect any increase-in fact, it included a $20 INCREASE for the Cost of Living increase of 1.7%.


----------



## rlmayknit (Mar 14, 2011)

woodgirl said:


> I still believe in free speech, Obamacare will and has already hurt this country. We need to wake up at what is going on in this country.


I so agree with you. But the people voted him in again. We are stuck for 4 more years. One thing I have learned is when the government gets involved they always screw it up. He and his current administration want more and more social programs. We can not afford this and there are no cuts being made. Obamacare will be so costly and yes we the tax payers will pay for it. rlmayknit


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

Joan Thelma said:


> Evie RM said:
> 
> 
> > Joan Thelma said:
> ...


I think you need to look at your SS statement again... Yes we did get a 1.7% increase but the deduction for Medicare jumped from $99.90 to about $104.90


----------



## MsJackie (Nov 22, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Oh good grief! Here we go again.


 :thumbup:


----------



## MsJackie (Nov 22, 2011)

Oh gosh. To jump in or not? Smokers already pay more for insurance than non smokers. Obama is not the antichrist, and obama care is not socialism.


----------



## BarbaraSD (Mar 10, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


or driving a car or riding a bicycle or eating in restaurants or not growing our own food or .. or .. or ... Maybe one day we oldies will just become "soylent green."


----------



## MsJackie (Nov 22, 2011)

ssk1953 said:


> ginnyinnr said:
> 
> 
> > ]
> ...


every person over 18 in the US will have an appointment for a chest xray?[/quote]

Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.[/quote]

I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.[/quote]

I don't know. It's worrisome isn't it? I keep hoping and praying something will happen to change all this mess coming down the pike regarding healthcare. It scares me to death just thinking about it.[/quote]

Are you kidding? REALLY? No one said anything about everyone having to get a chest x-ray. Wow. There's enough craziness out there already, lets not invent more!

What it will do is prevent what happened to me. Aetna dropped me because I am expensive. I have heart disease. Now I have no insurance, I pay my cardiologist and for all my meds out of pocket. Really, get a grip.

OK, I am done. I can't keep beating this horse. Nothing I say will change what you think. I can't listen to Obama bashing anymore. Really, you would think that he got us into a war based on a lie without thinking about how to pay for it. Oh wait, that was Bush.


----------



## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

Are you kidding? REALLY? No one said anything about everyone having to get a chest x-ray. Wow. There's enough craziness out there already, lets not invent more! 

Yes someone on the discussion said that it could be told by chest xray is someone is a smoker or not. I said, that means every person over 18 in this country would have to have an xray to prove wether or not they smoke, so they would or would not be charged extra. OK, so not everyone will have an xray. Toss that out. How will the government be able to tell if a person smokes or doesn't smoke so they can charge them extra. I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm trying to see if anyone knows how the gov't can tell who smokes and who doesn't!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm with MsJackie...... this horse couldn't be any deader....those of you who want to talk politics please find a site just for that purpose. The rest of us, let's PLEASE go back to talking about our knitting and other hobbies...........


MsJackie said:


> ssk1953 said:
> 
> 
> > ginnyinnr said:
> ...


Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.[/quote]

I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.[/quote]

I don't know. It's worrisome isn't it? I keep hoping and praying something will happen to change all this mess coming down the pike regarding healthcare. It scares me to death just thinking about it.[/quote]

Are you kidding? REALLY? No one said anything about everyone having to get a chest x-ray. Wow. There's enough craziness out there already, lets not invent more!

What it will do is prevent what happened to me. Aetna dropped me because I am expensive. I have heart disease. Now I have no insurance, I pay my cardiologist and for all my meds out of pocket. Really, get a grip.

OK, I am done. I can't keep beating this horse. Nothing I say will change what you think. I can't listen to Obama bashing anymore. Really, you would think that he got us into a war based on a lie without thinking about how to pay for it. Oh wait, that was Bush.[/quote]


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Britty43 said:


> Joan Thelma said:
> 
> 
> > Evie RM said:
> ...


I don't get any paper check itemizing how my SS check's deductions are as it automatically gets deposited in my checking account. BUT, when I received notification from SS that my check was going to be increased, it did NOT show any increase in the Medicare Part B portion. Could your increase be based on prescription coverage? (which I don't have as I am covered under my Pension with my prior employer's health plan).


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## cspaen34 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi MsJackie! I am so happy the you and other in your circumstances will be able to have and afford health insurance under the Affordable Healthcare Act. I pay a lot for my supplement but it doesn't seem like such a big deal when I hear of someone who is turned down and can't get insurance --left to pay for everything including full cost of medications. 

Every American should have access to health care -- in order to get the insurance companies on board, the Affordable Healthcare law had to include the mandate so every American has required insurance creating a pool large enough to cover the costs of those with serious medical needs.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Joan Thelma said:


> Evie RM said:
> 
> 
> > Joan Thelma said:
> ...


In Washington state, we do not have a state income tax. I have an amount that I chose taken out of one of my pension checks for federal income tax. (Same amount every year). I got an increase on my SS check last year for a cost of living increase and they also increased the deduction for Medicare by a few dollars. The end of last year we got the notice that the deduction for Medicare out of our social security checks would be $104.00 per month in 2013 instead of $98.50 per month. Not a lot more, but some. And no cost of living increase for this year. I thought it was the same for all of the states.


----------



## Linda-Gail (Sep 25, 2011)

I find it very interesting that the politicians who have foisted Obamacare on us, saying it was such an improvement, will not be participating in it. They have their own "Cadillac care" system (which you and I pay for). They are exempt from social security taxes, and it seems that they only thing they can agree on is a vote to increase their salaries.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I'm with MsJackie...... this horse couldn't be any deader....those of you who want to talk politics please find a site just for that purpose. The rest of us, let's PLEASE go back to talking about our knitting and other hobbies...........
> 
> 
> MsJackie said:
> ...


I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.[/quote]

I don't know. It's worrisome isn't it? I keep hoping and praying something will happen to change all this mess coming down the pike regarding healthcare. It scares me to death just thinking about it.[/quote]

Are you kidding? REALLY? No one said anything about everyone having to get a chest x-ray. Wow. There's enough craziness out there already, lets not invent more!

What it will do is prevent what happened to me. Aetna dropped me because I am expensive. I have heart disease. Now I have no insurance, I pay my cardiologist and for all my meds out of pocket. Really, get a grip.

OK, I am done. I can't keep beating this horse. Nothing I say will change what you think. I can't listen to Obama bashing anymore. Really, you would think that he got us into a war based on a lie without thinking about how to pay for it. Oh wait, that was Bush.[/quote][/quote]

Oh so we are still blaming Bush???? Four + years later. Name some other President who have brought us into wars we did not agree with How about Johnson??? Obama has cause this country more than we can afford espeical those who have retired. When one takes the blinders off and see what is really going on, one sees the truth.


----------



## MsJackie (Nov 22, 2011)

cspaen34 said:


> Hi MsJackie! I am so happy the you and other in your circumstances will be able to have and afford health insurance under the Affordable Healthcare Act. I pay a lot for my supplement but it doesn't seem like such a big deal when I hear of someone who is turned down and can't get insurance --left to pay for everything including full cost of medications.
> 
> Every American should have access to health care -- in order to get the insurance companies on board, the Affordable Healthcare law had to include the mandate so every American has required insurance creating a pool large enough to cover the costs of those with serious medical needs.


Thank you. :thumbup:


----------



## MsJackie (Nov 22, 2011)

If you want to move past all the hysteria, check out this link to get the facts.

http://bluestreetjournal.com/2013/01/15/obamacare-in-plain-english-what-it-means-for-you/


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## KnitPicker (Jan 19, 2011)

Mz Molly said:


> Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....


I totally agree and the topic heading doesn't say it all....like pro or con. I'm not o n this site to fight or argue. I'm here to talk arts, crafts, knitting, crocheting, etc. Sometimes funny stuff. I really think this sight should stop being like facebook and lift people up rather than drag them down. And I, too, won't be back to this posting.


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## ladysjk (Dec 16, 2011)

My oldest daughter has two children,and divorced no insurance, last year her daughter was hospitalized for a week...she makes to much to get medicaid..not enough to buy private insurance..what a hit that was. I am helping pay that bill off...my youngest daughter and husband, buy private insurance for their family, what a hit that is. I have a friend who owns a business, her insurance just for her is 700.00 a month, and is horrible insurance, I have a friend who cares for her father, dying of leukemia,no insurance..I have a patient dying of lung cancer, never smoked a day in her life, lived in LA most of her life, they believe her cancer is caused by the pollution in LA...I have insurance though my employer, goes up every year, regardless of who is President...3 years ago I had a heart attack..thank God I had insurance. A heart cath, stint, hospital stay, my share of that huge bill was over 5000.00. I still have EKG and follow up every year, for a while it was every 6 months. Thank God I had insurance. If you have a heart attack, or break a hip, or ecoli or cancer, not to mention a slew of other issues...you will be thrilled you had any insurance...just one major health issue will send you to the poor house. Is is right that hard working people, not have any coverage because they can not afford it...so suffer as long as possible before seeking medical care?? Is it right that the hospitals ask for your insurance information while you are in ICU or CCU?? Don't think it doesn't happen because it does. There is a difference between, charitable hospitals, and non- profit hospitals. A charitable hospital treats, and works with you to pay something to them, if you can, or takes small payments or eats the bill, a non-profit, will send you to collection agencies, and sue you for it. I even know of one local hospital that has it's own collection agency just for that. Count your blessings people, count your blessings. I don't care what your life style is, everyone and I mean everyone, should have a right to fair healthcare and fair premiums for that health care. 

My mom used to tell how medicare started, and there was so many bugs in it that people gripped and complained about it, it took years to work those out, and still working them out as we have seen. No plan is perfect, they all need tweaked, teachers, you know this,even lesson plans need tweaked, medical professionals should know this, as treatment plans change all the time. 

I for one say again and again, I am so blessed to have insurance, and grateful for it. I will continue to pay higher premiums every year...no matter what.


----------



## Ciyona (Jan 17, 2011)

It doesn't matter anymore ladies, Obc will break us all. All retirement plans will be hit. My husband will be lucky if he gets any of his as even the military is going broke. This all stinks to high heaven. I decided if I can't do anything about it the whole world could fall apart and those with the savvy to survive it won't be better off. You just wait smokers and seniors are getting attacked now it is only going to get worse. I hope we all survive this hardship that is coming. Now I am going back to my knitting. Because this is why politics shouldn't be discussed here.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Joan Thelma said:


> Britty43 said:
> 
> 
> > Joan Thelma said:
> ...


I owe you an appology. I just got out the notice I received last year and the first sentence says "your Social benefits will increase by 1.7 percent in 2013 because of a rise in the cost of living." Where it lists the deductions it shows on the first line your monthly amount before deductions. The second line is the amount deducted for Medicare medical insurance and is shown as $104.90 (last year was 98.90). It went up. The third line is the amount deducted for Medicare prescription drug plan and says in Parenthesis (If you did not elect withholding as of Nov. 1. 2012, we show $0.00). Mine shows $0.00 because I have a supplemental insurance (supplemental to Medicare) that has my prescription coverage included. For me, my supplemental insurance went up. I hope this clarifies everything and I am sorry that I did not notice that we did get the 1.7% cost of living increase. All I can say is that I hope everyone stays healthy. LOL


----------



## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

MsJackie said:


> Oh gosh. To jump in or not? Smokers already pay more for insurance than non smokers. Obama is not the antichrist, and obama care is not socialism.


Agree with you


----------



## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

Laurenb53 said:


> Not going into politics, but just need some encouragement. This is day four of no cigarettes and the little man on my shoulder is screaming just stop on your way to work and buy a pack.


 Scream back at him to shut the **** (heck?) up!!!

What your going through -- the withdrawl -- has been shown to be at last as difficult -- if not more so -- than withdrawl from heroin. Remind yourself of this and be proud of yourself that you are winning.

More even than the reward of better health, money has been proven to be an extremely powerful incentive to reach any goal. Every day take the money that you would have spent on cigarettes that day and put it in a jar. Watch your money add up. Maybe once a week during this hardest period, reward yourself with something you like -- new nail polish that you can apply and admire all week, being proud of yourself for your great accomplishment of the week; some deliciously scented body wash or bath oil that you'll keep smelling long after you use it; etc. And something to keep your hands busy -- knitting or crocheting, sorting out old photos to put into an album, etc.

This will probably be the hardest thing you ever do in your life. Keep patting yourself on the back every day for meeting the challenge and winning!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Scottishlady said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see why some people can't understand how destructive Obama is.
> ...


Ditto to that, plus he is LAZY and INCOMPETENT. And why isn't he being held accountable for Benghazi? He was a professor of the Constitution and recently it was found that he violated his authority under the Constitution.

Makes Jimmy Carter look good.


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## Britty43 (Jan 8, 2012)

21 pages on this subject... Can we PLEASE close it now


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

You are so right! Thank you.


RUKnitting said:


> Scottishlady said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

"Closing it" or closing our eyes to the abominable situation is part of the problem. Yes, there will be differences of opinions, and differing loyalties, but it would be beneficial for the country if we reacted from a position of being informed. Don't open the link if you don't like the topic.


Britty43 said:


> 21 pages on this subject... Can we PLEASE close it now


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Disgusting, isn't it? And this is a democracy?


Linda-Gail said:


> I find it very interesting that the politicians who have foisted Obamacare on us, saying it was such an improvement, will not be participating in it. They have their own "Cadillac care" system (which you and I pay for). They are exempt from social security taxes, and it seems that they only thing they can agree on is a vote to increase their salaries.


----------



## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

Here's another funny one, post-shopped thank goodness


----------



## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


This is how it is going to be from now on. They are taking money from Medicare to fund Obamacare and the people on this insurance can't afford to pay so we are going to have to pay much much much more for the insurance we have paid into all our life. They will charge more for anyone who has an unhealthy habit. Smoking, obesity, etc....... But the senators, President and people who pass the laws have a good insurance plan. Next they will say we are too old for treatment. That they cannot treat us because of our age. :thumbdown: :? :hunf:


----------



## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

I think that's what scares me most about all this. I worried they'd decide who will get care (age, or health condition) before he was ever elected. I saw a sci-fi movie once, years ago that depicted this same scenario. Even scarier in real life.


Sarah Jo said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.
> ...


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> OLdhenwife
> 
> Big Brother would be proud of you because you have swallowed the whole package, kit and caboodle, about carbon dioxide, wind farms, climate change and so on, despite the evidence against it. That evidence has been systematically suppressed in the interests of the many companies involved, and 'scientists' who want to make a name and get more funding.
> 
> ...


Well I could say that you've swallowed the whole package etc. of the climate change deniers, despite the whole evidence against them!

I've did many times that we don't have a TV - you seem to know all about it so you must watch it !!

We also live in a smokeless zone and had to pay quite a lot for what was then the only wood burning stove with a HETAS certificate - approved by DEFRA for burning certain timbers in a smokeless zone.

Burning wood does produce carbon dioxide and water - as we do when we breathe. What toxic chemical does it produce? I've already said that we don't burn proscribed timbers.

Burning coal, oil and gas produce far more toxic gases as well as their production causing considerable actual and potential damage to the environment. Shale gas anyone? Shell oil accidents in the Arctic? Gas explosions in the North Sea?

We thought long and hard before we made our decisions about how we live, we are both science trained so have access to - and understanding of - (not money) more published material than most.

We've also been to the Arctic a few times and have seen what's happening there What we do in our remaining lifetimes won't affect it a jot but the destruction of the world won't have our name on it. That matters.


----------



## silvercharms (Mar 29, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> silvercharms said:
> 
> 
> > OLdhenwife
> ...


 Agree to disagree?
Only time will tell which is right. (By the way, I too have access to scientific data on the question)


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

silvercharms said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Burning wood does produce carbon dioxide and water - as we do when we breathe. What toxic chemical does it produce? I've already said that we don't burn proscribed timbers.
> ...


You haven't said what toxic chemicals are produced by burning wood.

If you do, will you compare them with those produced by burning fossil fuels?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Every American does have access to healthcare. Insurance is a commodity that is purchased. Some people have more purchasing power than others and the federal government should not have the power to mandate it's citizens to purchase anything.



cspaen34 said:


> Hi MsJackie! I am so happy the you and other in your circumstances will be able to have and afford health insurance under the Affordable Healthcare Act. I pay a lot for my supplement but it doesn't seem like such a big deal when I hear of someone who is turned down and can't get insurance --left to pay for everything including full cost of medications.
> 
> Every American should have access to health care -- in order to get the insurance companies on board, the Affordable Healthcare law had to include the mandate so every American has required insurance creating a pool large enough to cover the costs of those with serious medical needs.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We will be paying for it all. Obama pays for nothing.


----------



## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


Drug addicts can get on SS disability.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Where did this come from. They should not have disability. Is this a new thing?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> You are so right! Thank you.
> 
> 
> RUKnitting said:
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I totally agree!


----------



## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

Does anyone remember LBJ. He started Medicare, The Great Society, and moved SS funds to the general fund.. He was also a democrat.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

freesia792 said:


> I think that's what scares me most about all this. I worried they'd decide who will get care (age, or health condition) before he was ever elected. I saw a sci-fi movie once, years ago that depicted this same scenario. Even scarier in real life.
> 
> 
> Sarah Jo said:
> ...


Agree with both of you, as it could change at a moments notice. If it is only to support the people who are unisured what will be the cost for us, and some where they will have to save money as the work force seems to be going down instead of up. We will soon enough be the ones who do not have insurance too with the cost raising for all of us.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Where did this come from. They should not have disability. Is this a new thing?


It's been going on it seem like for a long time. Claim you are mental ill get a dotcor to agree with you and you can get paid for it. Know of a couple of people who have done it and brag about it too. Just strange how some can get paid for not working, and claiming to have so much wrong, and still be able to live like that.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lina said:


> Does anyone remember LBJ. He started Medicare, The Great Society, and moved SS funds to the general fund.. He was also a democrat.


Not the left they seem to think the right is the cause for everthing. They also seem to forget that Johnson could not send enough men into Vietnam. Plus now they seem to not want to face the fact that this President is out of control and has spent more money in the last four years then any President we have had who spent money then any President befor him, when they served their term's in office.
Obama Care is going to take us down a path that I for one am very worried about.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Omnivore said:


> Here's another funny one, post-shopped thank goodness


do not like this picture at all. :thumbdown:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, Yes, Yes. Obama is spending like crazy - 40% increase in spending while he is in office.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

They've been able to do that since 1980. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/rulings/di/01/SSR82-60-di-01.html



Lukelucy said:


> Where did this come from. They should not have disability. Is this a new thing?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

By the way, the president in 1980 was Jimmy Carter...a democrat.



thumper5316 said:


> They've been able to do that since 1980. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OP_Home/rulings/di/01/SSR82-60-di-01.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## CarolBest (Sep 14, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Oh good grief! Here we go again.


OMG is the sky falling again?!! :shock:


----------



## sylviaelliott (May 11, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just read that people who smoke will be paying a lot of money to be covered by health insurance under Obamacare.


good, so they should. smokers cost our NHS a fortune in treatment.


----------



## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

CarolBest said:


> Raybo said:
> 
> 
> > Oh good grief! Here we go again.
> ...


LOLOL. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lorbrown1 (Jan 1, 2013)

Linda-Gail said:


> I find it very interesting that the politicians who have foisted Obamacare on us, saying it was such an improvement, will not be participating in it. They have their own "Cadillac care" system (which you and I pay for). They are exempt from social security taxes, and it seems that they only thing they can agree on is a vote to increase their salaries.


And they only need to serve 1 term in office to be eligible to collect SS benefits.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Britty43 said:


> 21 pages on this subject... Can we PLEASE close it now


Don't read it if you like the subject!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Every American does have access to healthcare. Insurance is a commodity that is purchased. Some people have more purchasing power than others and the federal government should not have the power to mandate it's citizens to purchase anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So true!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lina said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!
> ...


Also the people who are morbidly obese who expect the rest of us to pay for their eating habits!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lina said:


> Does anyone remember LBJ. He started Medicare, The Great Society, and moved SS funds to the general fund.. He was also a democrat.


Amen to all of those democrats who thinks their party saves the USA! They won't admit to any wrong doing by the Democrats!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

CarolBest said:


> Raybo said:
> 
> 
> > Oh good grief! Here we go again.
> ...


Are you a lefty!

:?: :?: :?:


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I am die-hard left and I disagreed with everything Johnson did in his administration. That guy did not have the best interests of the country anywhere in his psyche. I was out protesting that war (peacefully) as much as I could. I was not old enough to vote at the time, but I never would have voted for him. Later I rooted for and voted for Eugene McCarthy.


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## rlmayknit (Mar 14, 2011)

Ciyona said:


> It doesn't matter anymore ladies, Obc will break us all. All retirement plans will be hit. My husband will be lucky if he gets any of his as even the military is going broke. This all stinks to high heaven. I decided if I can't do anything about it the whole world could fall apart and those with the savvy to survive it won't be better off. You just wait smokers and seniors are getting attacked now it is only going to get worse. I hope we all survive this hardship that is coming. Now I am going back to my knitting. Because this is why politics shouldn't be discussed here.


You are so right. rlmayknit


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, I agree.


----------



## DebiJo (Jan 22, 2013)

I read the subject line and just had to keep reading. I love to see different views from people,
Of course I have a few myself. The only problem I have is understanding the blame game. Not that there aren't high ups that deserve blame, it's just there are SO many of them to point the finger at. Republican, Democrat, etc. Pick one. I did not vote for President Obama, but it wasn't just because he is a Democrat. I do like and agree with some of the ideas he would like to put in place, and then there are some that I don't agree with. I also believe that we the people of this great country should keep up the fight and voice our opinions. Not that any of us would want to, or could, run a country but our opinions and beliefs are part of what makes us who we are and shows that we care no matter what side one may be on.
I don't know what the answer is for the many many problems of our country, but I do truly believe until ALL politicians start caring about the country instead of what's going to benefit them personally, there will be difficult times ahead for everyone.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Isn't that crazy? And they're not forced to try to get off the drugs. What is going on in this country??? Some places are requiring drug testing for welfare recipients...not sure where or what the consequences are.


Lina said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

...and full (very large )pensions.


lorbrown1 said:


> Linda-Gail said:
> 
> 
> > I find it very interesting that the politicians who have foisted Obamacare on us, saying it was such an improvement, will not be participating in it. They have their own "Cadillac care" system (which you and I pay for). They are exempt from social security taxes, and it seems that they only thing they can agree on is a vote to increase their salaries.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Health insurance premiums have gone up year after year after year, thanks to the health insurance companies that have been making tremendous profits. You can't blame the ACA. Remember "the common good?" Every person in a country as rich as ours should have access to affordable health care.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S. I believe drug and alcohol addictions are illnesses.


----------



## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

I haven't read the last 10 pages but I did see someone refer to our president as a "black" president. He is half black & half WHITE. He is mixed race - a real African/American. His mother was white American and his father black African. Let's keep the facts correct! Careful who you blame. Look at who you sent to congress.


----------



## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

Maybe they just feel bad about being mentally ill so they feel better claiming they aren't really and have just "fooled everyone" and are really smart in fact. Maybe I'm dreaming too. Gosh; I dunno.

We all have "ego protection mechanisms" to help us not feel awful about ourselves. I think you can take it as a given that people are like kids on Xmas day, angry that some other kid might have more in their Santa-stocking than they do - come to think of it; kids seem to be happy with what they've got. When my husband dumped us and we went on welfare, because I manage well on very little money, the knives went out in the neighbourhood if there was any evidence of it.

This was like someone getting furiously angry shouting "she's got a biscuit! She shouldn't have one!" What these b*tches didn't seem mentally-equipped to realise, was that, metaphorically-speaking they not only had a damn' biscuit, but their nasty jealous gobs were stuffed with fruit cake and their hands were so full of chocolate cake it was a wonder they could swing a fist at me!!!! Grrrrrr.

Welcome to the world of having been a welfare-recipient and therefore a "legitimate target" for the spiteful and minutely-minded. To have had 3 children under three (twins) and for someone to say "are they all different men's?" To have men think it'll be fitting to "try it on".

To have had those children grow up and soar way above that type of person in every way. Eat their dust and I hope it chokes ya.
So if you love bashing welfare-recipients, how'ja like THEM apples? It doesn't fool people that you're a better person unless they're as brainless as you are. This is not a personal attack by the way.

Actually, I think a lot of people's fear is fear that it could happen to them. A lot of my resentment is because I didn't know how to defend myself when attacked in those bad old days. Now things are a lot better and Prozac's wonderful; credit where it's due.


theyarnlady said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Where did this come from. They should not have disability. Is this a new thing?
> ...


----------



## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Singling out one group is going to be justified by saying that the cost of health care for a smoker is much higher. Smoking is taboo and we all know it isn't good for you. However what mixed messages our society sends. We gather round the TV on weekends and on Monday nights to watch men, who are paid millions of dollars by the way, to crash into each other as hard as they can..and often cause concussions. Now we are learning that these repeated concussions have dire consequences later in life..but bring on the Super Bowl! Let's cheer those quarterback sacks too! Let's replay the crash of that Super-G skier hurtling down a mountain. Let's celebrate dangerous and extreme sports but hey, smoking now THAT'S dangerous. *shakes head*


We're are talking about millions if smokers ad how many football players or super G sportsmen??


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Hilda said:


> I haven't read the last 10 pages but I did see someone refer to our president as a "black" president. He is half black & half WHITE. He is mixed race - a real African/American. His mother was white American and his father black African. Let's keep the facts correct! Careful who you blame. Look at who you sent to congress.


It's very rare to hear that your president is white. Well, as much white as black ...

Well said.


----------



## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

victoria1953 said:


> We are all going to be paying a lot more.I am 59 and have been disabled since the age of 34 all this time I have had Medicare.I am going to loose coverage on a lot of things and hope to God that I don't get any worse than I am right now.


My husband is also disabled..........what is he gong to lose?


----------



## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

flhusker said:


> Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it. Every time there is a budget crunch it's social security that gets threatened. All the politician seem to forget that is money we earned and loaned to them with the promise that we would get it back.


Are you certain it is Obama who want us to die? Seems to me it's theRepublicans who want to decimate SS and Medicare.


----------



## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

sidecargrammie said:


> yep, I agree Obamacare must go..just as entitlements.


Why do you call them Entitlements, when we paid for them?


----------



## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

Doesn't Obama smoke? Is he paying the high premiums or is he exempt??


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Unfortunately, it is mostly those people that do NOT pay for the services that end up using them. As a private citizen I usually get the benefits of the services I pay for. However, entitlements, as defined by our society, are benefits that are established by legislative action.

The majority of those things considered entitlements are welfare in nature and nothing, other than breathing air, needs to be done in order to qualify receiving them. This, I believe, is wrong. I don't care if they lick envelopes. They should have to DO something.



rockyjfs1991 said:


> sidecargrammie said:
> 
> 
> > yep, I agree Obamacare must go..just as entitlements.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rockyjfs1991 said:


> flhusker said:
> 
> 
> > Obama would like nothing mode than to have all us Seniors to simply drop dead so he can take all our money that we paid into social security all these years and spend it. Every time there is a budget crunch it's social security that gets threatened. All the politician seem to forget that is money we earned and loaned to them with the promise that we would get it back.
> ...


I agree. Saying Obama wants us to die is totally facetious. Ryan and the rest of his republican cronies are the ones who are always crying about the cost of SS and Medicare. I will never understand why republicans are always mean-spirited when it comes to people who need help and are always wanting to pave the way for the wealthy. And why do middle-class Americans fall for the republican propaganda?


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Unfortunately, it is mostly those people that do NOT pay for the services that end up using them. As a private citizen I usually get the benefits of the services I pay for. However, entitlements, as defined by our society, are benefits that are established by legislative action.
> 
> The majority of those things considered entitlements are welfare in nature and nothing, other than breathing air, needs to be done in order to qualify receiving them. This, I believe, is wrong. I don't care if they lick envelopes. They should have to DO something.
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knovice knitter said:
 

> Well, for one thing, he is ending wars that were started under false pretenses. Our friends and allies were stuck sending their own into harm's way because they are allies. Now that we are pulling out, the allies can bring home their own. Also, this President can actually speak with wisdom and proper vocabulary. We don't look quite so stupid anymore. What is it that you want to know about Benghazi? Seems to me, that that issue has been explained, regretted remorsefully ad nauseum. "
> 
> Benghazi has not been explained. People have taken responsibility , yet have not been HELD responsible for their actions. Why did Hillary not read the cables from Libya? She admitted this at the hearings. Libya is considered one of the 5 most dangerous places in the world. Why did she not know what was going on? Incompetence comes to mind. Why was the ambassador even at the consulate and not at the embassy? Why did they not know the difference between a terrorist attack and a demonstration? It seems that this Department of State actually knows nothing. With all the information coming in, the department couldn't keep our people in Libya safe. Certainly doesn't generate any confidence in their ability.


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Social Security is not an entitlement. We pay into it all our working lives. We have earned it. I have earned my social security for the 42 years of my life that I worked.


----------



## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

CarolBest said:


> Raybo said:
> 
> 
> > Oh good grief! Here we go again.
> ...


Yes it is. Are you prepared ?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

As a conservative I don't think either party wants us to die. However, Obama is the one that told a woman in an audience (Jane Sturm) that her elderly mother would have been better off taking a pain killer than having a pacemaker implanted five years ago. It is still an unknown as to what his reign will do with end-of-life care or what criteria is applied to determine when end-of-life care begins. Personally, I don't think we're going to like the answer when we find out.



alcameron said:


> rockyjfs1991 said:
> 
> 
> > flhusker said:
> ...


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?

I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.


----------



## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> Doesn't Obama smoke? Is he paying the high premiums or is he exempt??


If he is not exempt He will just pass a bill and fix that problem. But they do not have the same insurance as us. So he probably is covered.


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

MsJackie said:


> Oh gosh. To jump in or not? Smokers already pay more for insurance than non smokers. Obama is not the antichrist, and obama care is not socialism.


Try telling that to someone who proclaims that she can see things that others cannot.

Sounds like some kind of complex to me.


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

ssk1953 said:


> ginnyinnr said:
> 
> 
> > ]
> ...


every person over 18 in the US will have an appointment for a chest xray?[/quote]

Probably so, it's usually included in a complete physical which everyone will probably have to have.[/quote]

I just had a c o mplete physical, I didn't have a chest xray, I was asked if I smoke. I don't never had, but how did she know I was telling the truth. And who is going to pay for all those chest rays, I thought Obamacare was going to save money.[/quote]

I don't know. It's worrisome isn't it? I keep hoping and praying something will happen to change all this mess coming down the pike regarding healthcare. It scares me to death just thinking about it.[/quote]

Right here is where I am getting the giggles so badly I have to stop reading. Thank you, ladies. You have restored my faith in PT Barnum.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Agreed. I've never thought of Social Security as entitlement. It was supposed to have been a 'lock-box' where money, taken from us out of each paycheck, was to have put for safe keeping for disbursement as a guaranteed income during our retirement years.

Somehow, in the last few years, some people, in order to obfuscate, have morphed the intent of the program by lumping it into a category in which it doesn't belong.



Evie RM said:


> Social Security is not an entitlement. We pay into it all our working lives. We have earned it. I have earned my social security for the 42 years of my life that I worked.


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Sarah Jo said:


> knitnsew
> If he is not exempt He will just pass a bill and fix that problem. [/quote said:
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama doesn't want us to die. He could care less. He just wants to spend money for the poor.


----------



## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> As a conservative I don't think either party wants us to die. However, Obama is the one that told a woman in an audience (Jane Sturm) that her elderly mother would have been better off taking a pain killer than having a pacemaker implanted five years ago. It is still an unknown as to what his reign will do with end-of-life care or what criteria is applied to determine when end-of-life care begins. Personally, I don't think we're going to like the answer when we find out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually there are consequences to every election and we will just have to get use to this consequence.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

The short answer is no. Federal taxes are taken out each paycheck. However, each year, we file our taxes which is a reconcilliation. The bottom line is that almost 50% of american citizens end up getting all of the money back as a refund.

Those taxes that are payed at the till on purchases are state sales taxes. The product or service that incurs a sales tax and the amount of the tax are unique to each state that has them. Some states have no sales tax but do have a state income tax. Some states have no state income tax but have a sales tax. And then there are those states like Minnesota, the state I live in, that hasn't found a tax they didn't like and we have both a state income tax AND a state sales tax.

Confused yet?



Oldhenwife said:


> Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?
> 
> I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> P.S. I believe drug and alcohol addictions are illnesses.


It sounds a lot better being an "illness" than one actually having to be responsible for their actions.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Not necessarily. Be sure to contact your elected representatives (those guys that are supposed to represent you) and let them know your stance. They need to know.



Sarah Jo said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > As a conservative I don't think either party wants us to die. However, Obama is the one that told a woman in an audience (Jane Sturm) that her elderly mother would have been better off taking a pain killer than having a pacemaker implanted five years ago. It is still an unknown as to what his reign will do with end-of-life care or what criteria is applied to determine when end-of-life care begins. Personally, I don't think we're going to like the answer when we find out.
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup. Let's make sure druggies and alcoholics aren't responsible for their actions. They cannot help it because it is an illness is a load of crap.


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> The short answer is no. Federal taxes are taken out each paycheck. However, each year, we file our taxes which is a reconcilliation. The bottom line is that almost 50% of american citizens end up getting all of the money back as a refund.
> 
> Those taxes that are payed at the till on purchases are state sales taxes. The product or service that incurs a sales tax and the amount of the tax are unique to each state that has them. Some states have no sales tax but do have a state income tax. Some states have no state income tax but have a sales tax. And then there are those states like Minnesota, the state I live in, that hasn't found a tax they didn't like and we have both a state income tax AND a state sales tax.
> 
> Confused yet?


[/quote]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhh! 
:thumbdown:


----------



## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Sarah Jo said:
> 
> 
> > knitnsew
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lol! Was that a "Waaaaaaahhhhhhh!" because I overcomplicated my answer or because so many here get all their money back?



Oldhenwife said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > The short answer is no. Federal taxes are taken out each paycheck. However, each year, we file our taxes which is a reconcilliation. The bottom line is that almost 50% of american citizens end up getting all of the money back as a refund.
> ...


Waaaaaaahhhhhhh! 
:thumbdown:[/quote]


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Lol! Was that a "Waaaaaaahhhhhhh!" because I overcomplicated my answer or because so many here get all their money back?
> 
> Confused yet?


[/quote]

Waaaaaaahhhhhhh! 
:thumbdown:[/quote][/quote]

It was because I was confused


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

MsJackie said:


> If you want to move past all the hysteria, check out this link to get the facts.
> 
> http://bluestreetjournal.com/2013/01/15/obamacare-in-plain-english-what-it-means-for-you/


I have read parts of the original document when it first came out and I can tell you..... This "Plain English means to you " ...is hogwash.....YOU are being fed a line of BS !!!

And to fund it $$$$ from medicare has already been designated. Just because it is due to take effect in the year 2014 doesn't mean things have not been happening that are influencing your health care insurance.

This Obama Care came into being when the dems realized that health care costs were around 7% of the GDP. WOW lets make the gov't bigger and take that over! People who can't afford health insurance can apply for Medicaid.

States could mandate that insurance companies who are controlled by the states should not be permitted to deny individuals due to pre-existing conditions. Also students be allowed to remain on their parents plan until they graduate from college, trade school or other.

Everyone should try to read the bill in its original form as passed and see all the pork that is in it which has nothing to do with health care. Also do you want a Panel of non-medical political appointees deciding your medical treatment?

And what about businesses being able to opt out by paying a penalty substantially less than what they pay for their employees healthcare. This is a blatant show of government takeover as the government will then be able to put them on its plan. And we all know the government does most everything worse than the private sector. And is less efficient!! The military is one exception.

This is not as simple as one would think. Read the bill and then decide it's what you want for something that is the most important issue for your health and that of your family.


----------



## lorbrown1 (Jan 1, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Health insurance premiums have gone up year after year after year, thanks to the health insurance companies that have been making tremendous profits. You can't blame the ACA. Remember "the common good?" Every person in a country as rich as ours should have access to affordable health care.


Everyone does have access to healthcare--Free--it's called Charity Care (may have a different title in different states but is available) and although it can be a very trying process, if you cannot afford to pay for services, you are eligible, if not entirely free, then on an affordable sliding scale based on your income. It is not Medicaid, although a person may be found eligible for Medicaid through the process. Often you have to begin by going to the Emergency Room for immediate care, but then are directed as to the steps for obtaining Charity Care for specialized services within your community. If you are not in need of immediate medical attention contact your local hospital and ask about it. It's not a perfect system, and yes, we the taxpayers pay for it, but it is still less out of our pockets then this horrific plan that the Administration has forced on us. The biggest clue as to how bad the Obamacare (or ACA) plan would be was when Nancy Pelosi made the statement "Well, you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Not a verbatim quote--so please don't correct it--but I think we've all heard that comment. Seriously?? Talk about 'Buyer Beware'. Did you know that not only was a 2% tax implemented on our income for the plan, there is also a 2% additional sales tax when you sell your home that goes to the Fed. Gov't., intended for the healthcare plan? I could go on about the MANY additional taxes, and the exemptions from paying those taxes for certain groups--but I won't. I'm neither party; I vote based on who I feel will do the best for our country as a whole-and who will uphold our United States Constitution, as it was intended by our forefathers, to Protect the Rights of the Citizens of this Great Nation and NOT benefit the elected officials. I believe we are our Brothers' keepers to an extent--but not when our Brothers (or sisters) are not willing to help themselves first. If you made it to the end, Thanks for reading!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

The federal government taxes what we earn. That's an income tax.

The states need money, too. When you made a purchase that tax was a sales tax. Some states fund themselves with the sales tax. Some states fund themselves with an income tax. Some states do both.

Did I do better?



Oldhenwife said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol! Was that a "Waaaaaaahhhhhhh!" because I overcomplicated my answer or because so many here get all their money back?
> ...


Waaaaaaahhhhhhh! 
:thumbdown:[/quote][/quote]

It was because I was confused [/quote]


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup. Let's make sure druggies and alcoholics aren't responsible for their actions. They cannot help it because it is an illness is a load of crap.


I suppose you believe that mental illness is a "load of crap," too?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Worried about how smokers will affect health care? I just read this and thought it was worth posting.

Medicare Paid Out $92M to Claims By Illegals
01/29/13

Illegal aliens, people in prisons are all living off your taxpayer dollars. Meanwhile, we are taxed so much that we cannot even afford health care services for ourselves.

Taxpayer money not well spent.Medicare paid health care bills for thousands of illegal immigrants and prison inmates at a cost of tens of millions of dollars, according to a new report by federal watchdogs.

The Center for Medicare and Medicaid services (CMS) paid more than $125 million to providers for treatment of 11,619 prison inmates and 2,575 individuals who were in the country illegally from 2009 through 2011, according to a pair of reports released Thursday by the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services.

The federal government is generally prohibited from providing Medicare services to incarcerated individuals or aliens who are unlawfully present in the country under the Social Security Act.

But CMSs screening methods were not able to detect and recoup payments that violated the Act, the IG found.
http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130129006-medicare-illegals.html#EvH33kPEmtqUM7VT.99


thumper5316 said:


> Unfortunately, it is mostly those people that do NOT pay for the services that end up using them. As a private citizen I usually get the benefits of the services I pay for. However, entitlements, as defined by our society, are benefits that are established by legislative action.
> 
> The majority of those things considered entitlements are welfare in nature and nothing, other than breathing air, needs to be done in order to qualify receiving them. This, I believe, is wrong. I don't care if they lick envelopes. They should have to DO something.
> 
> ...


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## lorbrown1 (Jan 1, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Agreed. I've never thought of Social Security as entitlement. It was supposed to have been a 'lock-box' where money, taken from us out of each paycheck, was to have put for safe keeping for disbursement as a guaranteed income during our retirement years.
> 
> Somehow, in the last few years, some people, in order to obfuscate, have morphed the intent of the program by lumping it into a category in which it doesn't belong.
> 
> ...


To Thumper and Evie--you are so correct with these statements; we pay into a SS fund through employment. However, did you know that Non-citizens who come to our country and are of the age of eligibility for Social Security do, in fact, collect Social Security Benefits that they (nor any other family member) NEVER paid into?


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

You know it does not matter what we say or believe at this point Unfortunately He and the Dems are in and rule the roost so to speak and we will have to live with it and suffer the consequences So all I can say take a deep breath and wait it out painful as that is going to be.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

In Maryland it is called Medicaid and used to be called Medical Assistance. Charity care in Maryland could be considered as something that is provided by healthcare providers to some of their patients on a private level.

Yes Nancy Pelosi said it all. How dumb did she think we were? That is why I encourage everyone to read the original text. It will shock you. It is not an easy bedtime read.



RUKnitting said:


> MsJackie said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to move past all the hysteria, check out this link to get the facts.
> ...


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Thumper, I enjoyed your reply, I wasn't suggesting that YOU confused me, it was the breakdown of who got what or didn't or went elsewhere or ... 

At least in UK all but one taxes go to the exchequer - the exception is council tax which goes to the local Council. that's a bit complicated but I shan't confuse myself by explaining!

I'm trying to think what taxes we pay - no doubt someone will correct me. Please.

Income tax. Value added tax on most goods. Tax on petrol (gas) and nicotine and alcohol.

Then there is a National Insurance charge which is paid by everyone who earns. That's a tax which is intended to pay for all health and other social care but which goes straight to the exchequer - piggy bank, tea caddy on the mantelpiece. Some say it goes to the Chancellor of the Exchequer but it doesn't, no one person has authority on what to pay to whom, it's decided by Parliament. When the Exchequer produces an annual budget it must be approved by Parliament.

So it's a bit like your system but we don't have itty bitty taxes which might or might not go somewhere :-O) Of course if we become more involved with Europe things might change - horrors!

I remember putting out dinner money for our children when they were at school, they had to have exactly the right amount so we had to scrape in pockets and bags and down the sides of chairs to find the right amount of change in five piles. Who'd be Chancellor of the Exchequer in any country!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

If one isn't employed, he doesn't pay taxes, unless he has a private source of "unearned income". I don't know if unemployment benefits are taxed. ??? But I believe SS income is considered taxable income - even though the income it was derived from was already taxed! Those on welfare,etc., certainly don't pay taxes. Yes, some states (and cities, too) have a sales tax on certain items purchased. Pretty soon we'll be like France where 75% of our income is taxed or given to the gov't. in one form or another. quote=Oldhenwife]Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?

I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.[/quote]


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## rockyjfs1991 (Dec 15, 2012)

lorbrown1 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Agreed. I've never thought of Social Security as entitlement. It was supposed to have been a 'lock-box' where money, taken from us out of each paycheck, was to have put for safe keeping for disbursement as a guaranteed income during our retirement years.
> ...


Not exactly true, they must meet specific reuirements an hae had to pay into SS


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Since we're talking about taxes, this came to me in an email. Sorry for the length.
This about sums it up about politicians in general, whether Republican or Democrats!(the list now has one more Tax... "Mind Tax" sponsed by Senator Lou.

READ, WEEP, PRINT AND KEEP!

This should be on the front page of every newspaper.

A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Note the Tax List Poem at the end..

This was Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel.. He was journalist for 49 years

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits( The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? (John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want.) If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the Senate in that time.]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
Here are some taxes that we so willingly pay Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Sales Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax

Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

What in the heck happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
The following might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Yes, unemployment benefits are taxed.

SS income became taxable in 1981 under Regan. Whether or not it is taxed and how much depends on other income.

I know there are some in Minnesota that, when you add all of the benefits they receive from the state (rent subsidies, cell phone, food stamps, computers, internet access, etc.), have gross incomes that exceed what my husband earns per year. They pay no taxes yet the taxes paid by me and my husband pay for their things. Shameful, if you ask me.



momeee said:


> If one isn't employed, he doesn't pay taxes, unless he has a private source of "unearned income". I don't know if unemployment benefits are taxed. ??? But I believe SS income is considered taxable income - even though the income it was derived from was already taxed! Those on welfare,etc., certainly don't pay taxes. Yes, some states (and cities, too) have a sales tax on certain items purchased. Pretty soon we'll be like France where 75% of our income is taxed or given to the gov't. in one form or another. quote=Oldhenwife]Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?
> 
> I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.


[/quote]


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> By the way, the president in 1980 was Jimmy Carter...a democrat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was also during his administration (Thanks to the Commerce Clause) our wonderful Department of Education came in to being, aka the teachers union sponsored by the govt. We all know how wonderful our children are doing compared with other countries. I don't even want to check on where we are on the list. Seems the more $$$$$$'s we throw at it the worse it gets. And it's not the problem of our dedicated teachers. And Head Start was recently studied and proclaimed a failure in meeting it's intended purpose. But having this info the government continues to fund this abject program.

Why do we elect these people to our government? Where is their level of competency in making decisions? Would somebody please help us? The USA is in trouble!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you for the clarification. I read that the benefits received by welfare recipients total about $60,000. I agree - shameful and the gov't. does not appear to have incentives for people to get off welfare....


thumper5316 said:


> Yes, unemployment benefits are taxed.
> 
> SS income became taxable in 1981 under Regan. Whether or not it is taxed and how much depends on other income.
> 
> ...


[/quote]


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I hear you but feel that we need to speak out when we feel something isn't right. Ignoring it won't help change anything. Almost 100 years ago womens' rights were very weak and it was women who changed their future.



scottishlass said:


> You know it does not matter what we say or believe at this point Unfortunately He and the Dems are in and rule the roost so to speak and we will have to live with it and suffer the consequences So all I can say take a deep breath and wait it out painful as that is going to be.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> rockyjfs1991 said:
> 
> 
> > flhusker said:
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > rockyjfs1991 said:
> ...


Why are the Dem's now taking out money from SS and Medicare, why are we having to do with less money??? 
Ryan at least put out a budget plan that would have brought us back to a reasonable level, unlike Harry Reed who will not even put one forth, and will not bring one that others have put forth on to the floor of the Senate???
Why do you think all of us middle-class or do you mean low class want to hear all of what the Left thinks is right???? Open your eyes lady and start to listen to C span, watch your pay check, and watch your money. 
Middle Class with what is going on in Washington we will not be middle class for long. 
I will help the poor but I will be darn if I am going to keep paying hard earned money that was put into SS and tax going in and coming out, to support some person who has found away to beat the system, and live off the goverment.
We had a governor in this state, yes he was one of those Republicans that pass a bill welfare to work. Either you work part time or you did not recieve welfare. Funny how the system worked, and the welfare payments went down??? He did not have the disabled work just the sit on your duff and collect money people.

As for mean spirited, you really must look to yourself and your party once in a while, read what you have written


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> Since we're talking about taxes, this came to me in an email. Sorry for the length.
> This about sums it up about politicians in general, whether Republican or Democrats!(the list now has one more Tax... "Mind Tax" sponsed by Senator Lou.
> 
> READ, WEEP, PRINT AND KEEP!
> ...


Oh I for one love it it says it all doesn't it. No matter who is in there it is happening and I for one think we have been silent for too long and taken to much, garbage from those who serve themselves and not the people who elected them.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lorbrown1 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Health insurance premiums have gone up year after year after year, thanks to the health insurance companies that have been making tremendous profits. You can't blame the ACA. Remember "the common good?" Every person in a country as rich as ours should have access to affordable health care.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> You know it does not matter what we say or believe at this point Unfortunately He and the Dems are in and rule the roost so to speak and we will have to live with it and suffer the consequences So all I can say take a deep breath and wait it out painful as that is going to be.


I am breathing as deep as I can, and now am covering my eyes, and saying to myself, It's o.k. this too shall pass. ( but not soon enough for me).  :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## greanise (Dec 28, 2012)

wurzel said:


> When the NHS was first launched in England, it was wonderful. Then people abused it - having spectacles, new teeth, mostly not really needed. It wasted so much money - we now have to pay for everything - medicines included. It is often much cheaper to buy over the counter. However, I have a lot to say thank you for - two new hips, spinal surgery and Open Heart surgery. Without the NHS - we would have been bankrupt! Both my husband and I have paid into the NHS ever since it came into being by weekly contributions.


Just wanted to clarify..we do NOT pay for everything..as you stated about the horrendously expensive procedures you were unfortunate to need , they were completely free (yes we pay tax, but proportional to what we receive over a lifetime it is peanuts!)...Prescription medicines are not that costly, around £7 per item and it is unlikely that a GP would write you a script for something so mild you can buy it over the counter...and if you need meds regularly you can purchase a 'season' card which cuts the cost enormously. (In my area, included in that prescription price, my chemist rings me to say when my repeat script is due to run out and that it will be ready for collection within 48 hours to collect-if elderly, infirm etc they will deliver it to your door.) Many places give free eye tests and all non-cosmetic dental work is hugely supplemented by the NHS (I pay approx £15 for a full check-up which is less than many people would happily spend on a new face cream!)
In addition. any one under 18/over 65/on benefits do not pay anything.
FYI, I do not have any affiliation with the NHS, I just don't think people sometimes realise how lucky we are to have it and I for one am very proud of the UK because of it...I know it isn't perfect, it is a huge institution and by default there will be glitches (usually caused by human era) but it is still a marvelous service.
As for Obama...not really well enough informed to make deep comments about USA...however, from a personally instinctive viewpoint as an ordinary human being, I strongly believe his heart is in the right place...(and the colour of his skin is a completely non-issue!)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I always said Obama needed to go.


If only.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I always said Obama needed to go.


Whoops - double post. Sorry.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

How is this for truth.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I always said Obama needed to go.
> ...


YUP, HE'LL GO...TO A MEGA MILLION $ HOME IN HAWAII, AND BELONGING TO THE WEALTHY 1% THAT HE HAS BEEN SO DISDAINFUL OF. Plus he'll have lifetime Secret Service protection, great health care, a big pension from his abysmal days as a senator, and from his 2 terms as POTUS and all the unknown perks that we'll never learn of. (Is anyone asking where all that $$$$ came from?)


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

true, but not happening.


theyarnlady said:


> How is this for truth.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I repeat--our government has to watch out for all its citizens, rich and poor alike. The American people voted for President Obama because he is the one whose policies make the most sense to the majority of Americans. The republican policies and beliefs have met with strong disapproval from most Americans. The republicans do not look out for the common, middle and lower class person; they are interested in protecting the wealthiest individuals in this country. You have only to read what they're about in the paper day after day. Ayn Rand is the heroine of today's republicans, and her philosophy has nothing to do with the common good. The election is over. It's time to get behind this president and this government and move forward.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Common good? Is it good that nearly half of the people in the US are dependent in some way on government largess? Is it goo that there are some states where welfare recipients outnumber people in the workforce? Obama is all about government running our lives for us. I feel confident that I can run my own life, thank you. Alcameron, you think that republicans are interested in protecting only the wealthiest. What classist baloney! And you probably believe we want dirty water and air, too. What we want is to keep government's hand out of our pockets.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

That's not true. The voters were pretty much split. But with our electoral college obama won the election. Ayn Rand is not the heroine of today's republicans and to say so is facetious. We do look out for the common people. However, we don't like being taken for granted.

I cannot and will not get behind this president until I can get behind him to shove him out the door and say good riddance to his backside.



alcameron said:


> I repeat--our government has to watch out for all its citizens, rich and poor alike. The American people voted for President Obama because he is the one whose policies make the most sense to the majority of Americans. The republican policies and beliefs have met with strong disapproval from most Americans. The republicans do not look out for the common, middle and lower class person; they are interested in protecting the wealthiest individuals in this country. You have only to read what they're about in the paper day after day. Ayn Rand is the heroine of today's republicans, and her philosophy has nothing to do with the common good. The election is over. It's time to get behind this president and this government and move forward.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That's not true. The voters were pretty much split. But with our electoral college obama won the election. Ayn Rand is not the heroine of today's republicans and to say so is facetious. We do look out for the common people. However, we don't like being taken for granted.
> 
> I cannot and will not get behind this president until I can get behind him to shove him out the door and say good riddance to his backside.
> 
> ...


LOL Thumper :thumbup:


----------



## abby8319 (Feb 9, 2011)

Thumper - please - more respect for the office of the president even if you don`t support him!


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?
> 
> I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.


The taxes you are talking about are the State Sales Tax and not all states have a sales tax. I live in Washington and we have a State Sales Tax. The state to the south of us, Oregon, does not have a state sales tax. But, Washington does not have a state income tax and Oregon does. Then there is the Federal Income Tax that you have to declare every year. If you are employed, your employer takes money out of your gross pay to pay the Federal Income Tax. After the year is over and by April 15th of the next year, you have to declare your gross income and can take whatever deductions you are allowed. If you have paid too much into the Federal Income Tax collected throughout the year, you could receive a refund. My husband has already started collecting all the receipts and paperwork we need in order for him to figure out our Federal Income Tax. It would be so much easier if they would just put a Federal Income Tax of say 10% on everything we buy like the state sales tax. That way you wouldn't be hit with a large amount owing at the end of the year. If you can afford to purchase the item, you should be able to pay the tax. No loop holes for the rich. Everyone taxed the same. Wouldn't that be great?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

abby8319 said:


> Thumper - please - more respect for the office of the president even if you don`t support him!


 She and we all will when he deserve and earns our respect. Until then we do not support his policy's or how he is running this country.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > That's not true. The voters were pretty much split. But with our electoral college obama won the election. Ayn Rand is not the heroine of today's republicans and to say so is facetious. We do look out for the common people. However, we don't like being taken for granted.
> ...


I second that . :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That's not true. The voters were pretty much split. But with our electoral college obama won the election. Ayn Rand is not the heroine of today's republicans and to say so is facetious. We do look out for the common people. However, we don't like being taken for granted.
> 
> I cannot and will not get behind this president until I can get behind him to shove him out the door and say good riddance to his backside.
> 
> ...


You are so left that Thumper is right I will help you Thumper with the shoving. :!:


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

greanise said:


> wurzel said:
> 
> 
> > When the NHS was first launched in England, it was wonderful. Then people abused it - having spectacles, new teeth, mostly not really needed. It wasted so much money - we now have to pay for everything - medicines included. It is often much cheaper to buy over the counter. However, I have a lot to say thank you for - two new hips, spinal surgery and Open Heart surgery. Without the NHS - we would have been bankrupt! Both my husband and I have paid into the NHS ever since it came into being by weekly contributions.
> ...


I am glad you have such a good system there. As for Barack Obama, I don't think his skin color has ever been an issue. Not publicly, at least. There are always those who will stay prejudiced no matter what and they can answer to their maker on judgement day for their prejudice.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Carol from TX 

I love your words. You said it so well. I just don't understand how this United States of America has produced people who believe in Obama and taking care of everyone and spending, spending, spending, etc. etc. They are the downfall of America.


----------



## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

rockyjfs1991 said:


> sidecargrammie said:
> 
> 
> > yep, I agree Obamacare must go..just as entitlements.
> ...


because we are Entitled to the benefit because we paid for it every time we got a paycheck...it is not a handout ..i worked hard for my Social security check


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> Joan Thelma said:
> 
> 
> > Britty43 said:
> ...


All I can say is that my Pension keeps going down and down; primarily because of the premium I have to pay for my Health Insurance coverage.

BUT - 4 years ago, I had to have the placgue (sp?)in my caroid artery (was 92% blocked-the other one is completely blocked) and a by-pass to restore the blood flow in my right arm. I was in ICU for 5 days and released on the 6th day. My hospital bill amounted to $60,000 for the Doctor's services and the Hospital stay!!!!!!!

So, the way I look at it, the $146 a month I pay for my Health Insurance is just a drop in the bucket when it comes to having to have a major operation along with the costs of all the prescription medicines I now have to take ($10 for Generic and $25 for Brand names).

But I also feel that I earned this right to have these benefits as I worked 23 years for Corporate America and even survived downsizing (based on age and amount of salary being earned)to have these "benefits"!!!!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Hilda said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read the last 10 pages but I did see someone refer to our president as a "black" president. He is half black & half WHITE. He is mixed race - a real African/American. His mother was white American and his father black African. Let's keep the facts correct! Careful who you blame. Look at who you sent to congress.
> ...


Well, as far as anyone hears, he does not claim his white part as he married a black woman and lives as a black man.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thumper, we had to put up with G.W. Bush for two terms, now it's your turn. Please try to do it graciously.


thumper5316 said:


> That's not true. The voters were pretty much split. But with our electoral college obama won the election. Ayn Rand is not the heroine of today's republicans and to say so is facetious. We do look out for the common people. However, we don't like being taken for granted.
> 
> I cannot and will not get behind this president until I can get behind him to shove him out the door and say good riddance to his backside.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Alcameron: are you calling all middle class Republicans? Well my dear put your money where your mouth should be--I'll bet you don't have a pot to P__ in nor a window to throw it out of--well do tell facts!

You probably qualify for any freebie is why you are a Democtat.


----------



## greanise (Dec 28, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Hilda said:
> ...


And this is relevant How?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I repeat--our government has to watch out for all its citizens, rich and poor alike. The American people voted for President Obama because he is the one whose policies make the most sense to the majority of Americans. The republican policies and beliefs have met with strong disapproval from most Americans. The republicans do not look out for the common, middle and lower class person; they are interested in protecting the wealthiest individuals in this country. You have only to read what they're about in the paper day after day. Ayn Rand is the heroine of today's republicans, and her philosophy has nothing to do with the common good. The election is over. It's time to get behind this president and this government and move forward.


You have returned like a bad penny with your garbage about Obama's rule. You really should wake up and smell the coffee and put your head on straight.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nope. Sorry. I had to put up with G.W. as well. He was spend crazy but can't hold a candle to what we have now. At least G.W. was respectful to people, never told his supporters to get in people's faces, never told the democrats that they could take a seat at the back of the room, etc. This 'person' we have in the White House is one of the most disrespectful and divisive president we've ever had. He doesn't deserve the office.



Nussa said:


> Thumper, we had to put up with G.W. Bush for two terms, now it's your turn. Please try to do it graciously.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yup. Let's make sure druggies and alcoholics aren't responsible for their actions. They cannot help it because it is an illness is a load of crap.
> ...


Hello, people with mental illness cannot help their illness but druggies/alcoholics do not have to put those things into their bodies! Need more coffee my dear? I'll put on a pot!


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Unemployment checks are taxable. Social Security was deducted from your paycheck before income tax was taken out...so it is now taxable as it is your income now...just like a 401K or other retirement fund you have paid into. It comes out first, you are then taxed on the remainder (you are left with your take-home pay). When it is time to collect your social security, then it is time to pay the taxes on it. It is not taxed twice.

In Wisconsin, Medicaid monthly premium for a single is $325. Most people who qualify do not accept it as they cannot afford the premium. Energy assistance programs in this area are limited to a one time claim...if you are in dire straights the next winter, the entitlement has already been given. You are at the mercy of the utility company who is legally bond to not let you freeze to death, but I think you have to pay them back at some point.


momeee said:


> If one isn't employed, he doesn't pay taxes, unless he has a private source of "unearned income". I don't know if unemployment benefits are taxed. ??? But I believe SS income is considered taxable income - even though the income it was derived from was already taxed! Those on welfare,etc., certainly don't pay taxes. Yes, some states (and cities, too) have a sales tax on certain items purchased. Pretty soon we'll be like France where 75% of our income is taxed or given to the gov't. in one form or another. quote=Oldhenwife]Doesn't everyone in USA pay taxes? Even those who are unemployed or on benefits?
> 
> I seem to remember that during my time in USA a tax was added at the till - checkout - on almost every purchase.


[/quote]


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right! People who want freebies like Obama. That is well known.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!


thumper5316 said:


> Nope. Sorry. I had to put up with G.W. as well. He was spend crazy but can't hold a candle to what we have now. At least G.W. was respectful to people, never told his supporters to get in people's faces, never told the democrats that they could take a seat at the back of the room, etc. This 'person' we have in the White House is one of the most disrespectful and divisive president we've ever had. He doesn't deserve the office.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

Janeway said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


why do some folks on here feel the need to get so hatefull and nasty with people that dont agree with their point of view ..good lord ..the sky is not falling and you will survive 4 more years ..go back to knitting ..you all are much nicer when talking about the latest pattern and knitting projects


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Helgajr1 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!


I liked Clinton. He was a moderate democrat and I respected his ability to compromise.

Give obama more time to clean up? I wouldn't credit obama with the ability to clean up a barn. We gave him 4 years and he only managed to exacerbate everything. Everything he has done has been an abysmal failure and we were left holding the price tag.

I have the utmost respect for this country. It's just being lead down the wrong path by someone who can't lead.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have not called anyone on the other side any names, but I can feel and see the disrespect I get from "those people" when I write anything they disagree with. I have been respectful and civil, and I think everyone is entitled to that regardless of his/her point of view. I have had conversations with some of you in the past, inquiring about your health, etc., and I can't understand why all the vitriol still persists. I am entitled to my point of view, and so is everyone else. Nobody deserves to be told to "wake up and smell the coffee" or deserves to be called anything else in a disparaging tone. I won't be sucked down to that level. Bless you all.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You win.....You are dead set on Obama bashing....Just wanted to make sure that's what it was. You proved it for all of us.......Good luck to you...... Take a deep breath....don't have a stroke..... :roll:


thumper5316 said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Goodness! What was objectionable in the quote from alcameron? Why wouldn't a government look out for all its citizens, rich and poor?

I know Americans haven't had that for many years before President Obama was elected, but that doesn't mean we don't know a good thing when we see it anymore. It's my opinion that's why he was reelected in 2012 although our economy is still struggling, although looking better each month. It's not "just the economy, stupid."

We believe in justice and the pursuit of happiness for all.



Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I repeat--our government has to watch out for all its citizens, rich and poor alike. The American people voted for President Obama because he is the one whose policies make the most sense to the majority of Americans. The republican policies and beliefs have met with strong disapproval from most Americans. The republicans do not look out for the common, middle and lower class person; they are interested in protecting the wealthiest individuals in this country. You have only to read what they're about in the paper day after day. Ayn Rand is the heroine of today's republicans, and her philosophy has nothing to do with the common good. The election is over. It's time to get behind this president and this government and move forward.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think President Obama was more idealistic before dealing with the GOP for four years. He's playing hardball now. He's holding most of the cards.

If I were the GOP, I think I'd try something new. Give him what he asks. Don't fight it. It only makes you look like obstructionists. If it doesn't work, you get to say 'I told you so' and run an easier campaign next time. If it does work, GOP was part of the solution.


----------



## ggnorma (Nov 5, 2011)

My insurance went up $90 a month late last year. I am so glad that I was around during WWII. We had to dowith what we had, not what we felt we "needed" or wanted. I'm thankful I've got a roof over my head, running water and food on the table and a vehicle that runs most of the time. Can't ask for much more. (especially on SS. lol)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

According to AMA, drug addiction is an illness, unlike ignorance.



Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Common good? Is it good that nearly half of the people in the US are dependent in some way on government largess? Is it goo that there are some states where welfare recipients outnumber people in the workforce? Obama is all about government running our lives for us. I feel confident that I can run my own life, thank you. Alcameron, you think that republicans are interested in protecting only the wealthiest. What classist baloney! And you probably believe we want dirty water and air, too. What we want is to keep government's hand out of our pockets.


You are exactly right, Carol!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm sure nobody will bother to read this, but it might be an interesting piece for some to read if thy can consider reading anything in (gasp) the New York Times.
Keep up the name-calling and denigrating towards people who don't share your right-leaning opinions--you show your true colors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/opinion/krugman-makers-takers-fakers-.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I read the site you posted. It made perfect sense. The reason the Republicans haven't been able to win a presidential election the last two elections is because their whole party is, and I can't think of a nicer way to say it, but it's a mess. Personally I don't think any intelligent Republican wants to be President right now. Or they would have chosen someone to run who could have won. I think they have to do some rethinking about who is running the show there. I am an independent voter. I vote for the person I think will do the best job of running our country. So far the Republicans haven't given me anyone I'd want to vote for. Thanks for the informative site. 


alcameron said:


> I'm sure nobody will bother to read this, but it might be an interesting piece for some to read if thy can consider reading anything in (gasp) the New York Times.
> Keep up the name-calling and denigrating towards people who don't share your right-leaning opinions--you show your true colors.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/opinion/krugman-makers-takers-fakers-.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Common good? Is it good that nearly half of the people in the US are dependent in some way on government largess? Is it goo that there are some states where welfare recipients outnumber people in the workforce? Obama is all about government running our lives for us. I feel confident that I can run my own life, thank you. Alcameron, you think that republicans are interested in protecting only the wealthiest. What classist baloney! And you probably believe we want dirty water and air, too. What we want is to keep government's hand out of our pockets.


Carol, Well said. The obama bullies cannot see the forest for the trees.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

abby8319 said:


> Thumper - please - more respect for the office of the president even if you don`t support him!


Thumper, you make a good point. Respect should not be blindly given. It needs to be earned. I respect the office, just not the current occupant.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > Common good? Is it good that nearly half of the people in the US are dependent in some way on government largess? Is it goo that there are some states where welfare recipients outnumber people in the workforce? Obama is all about government running our lives for us. I feel confident that I can run my own life, thank you. Alcameron, you think that republicans are interested in protecting only the wealthiest. What classist baloney! And you probably believe we want dirty water and air, too. What we want is to keep government's hand out of our pockets.
> ...


I don't know what an "Obama bully" is but what I believe about this country and our federal government and our Constitution grew out of many years of being informed about what goes on in this country and making informed decisions when I vote. If you haven't noticed there is greater separation of classes in this country than there ever was, and guess what? Those in positions of power in corporations and and the wealthy in this country want it that way. The rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer and it happened when republicans have been in power. If you don't realize that this has happened, or if you blame the poorest among us for it, you need to educate yourself. Contrary to what some individual on this site has said about me, my husband and I have worked hard all our lives to get where we are. I can't believe how crude and rude some people can be because of difference of opinion.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

to abby and the yarn lady: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I read the site you posted. It made perfect sense. The reason the Republicans haven't been able to win a presidential election the last two elections is because their whole party is, and I can't think of a nicer way to say it, but it's a mess. Personally I don't think any intelligent Republican wants to be President right now. Or they would have chosen someone to run who could have won. I think they have to do some rethinking about who is running the show there. I am an independent voter. I vote for the person I think will do the best job of running our country. So far the Republicans haven't given me anyone I'd want to vote for. Thanks for the informative site.
> 
> 
> alcameron said:
> ...


I also read the article on the site posted. I'm sure you realize that the NYT is heavily biased in favor of all things obama? There is no balance in what this newspaper prints. In fact it has been criticized for sending its political articles to the White House for approval prior to posting. For example, see: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2931425/posts.
I try to read a variety of newspapers, searching out reports on the same topic in each. I begin with the NYT and go to the WSJ, and onward to other major papers. I am distressed with the lack of objective reporting in many cases, but most blatantly evident in the NYT, so citing that as a valid source of anything political doesn't give me any confidence in its credibility. I am affiliated with neither party, being an Independent all my life, so I read widely and deeply prior to forming an opinion. If more voters ( or the media) had done so, and had examined Obama's background, affiliations, history, writings, supporters, work and professional history, etc.,I do not believe he would have been elected either time. Hope and Change were good sound bites, but the change hasn't been good, and many have lost hope.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

alcameron..... I believe certain types of people are called bullies. they are the ones who can't stand loosing, and will fight to their last breath for the right to be wrong. In that case, so be it. 
Fact is,..... Obama won.....Romney didn't... why? Because thank God there weren't enough bullies to vote him in.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Nope. Sorry. I had to put up with G.W. as well. He was spend crazy but can't hold a candle to what we have now. At least G.W. was respectful to people, never told his supporters to get in people's faces, never told the democrats that they could take a seat at the back of the room, etc. This 'person' we have in the White House is one of the most disrespectful and divisive president we've ever had. He doesn't deserve the office.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nor does he show respect for the office of the Presidency. I cringe every time I see photos of him with his shoed feet on that historic desk. And I was horrified when he returned the bust of Churchill to our good ally, Britain.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/07/obama-did-not-send-back-churchills-bust/1#.UQixAWcZE4Q Check your facts please.


RUKnitting said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. Sorry. I had to put up with G.W. as well. He was spend crazy but can't hold a candle to what we have now. At least G.W. was respectful to people, never told his supporters to get in people's faces, never told the democrats that they could take a seat at the back of the room, etc. This 'person' we have in the White House is one of the most disrespectful and divisive president we've ever had. He doesn't deserve the office.
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope. Sorry. I had to put up with G.W. as well. He was spend crazy but can't hold a candle to what we have now. At least G.W. was respectful to people, never told his supporters to get in people's faces, never told the democrats that they could take a seat at the back of the room, etc. This 'person' we have in the White House is one of the most disrespectful and divisive president we've ever had. He doesn't deserve the office.
> ...


America is disrespected when he apologizes to our 'enemies' for our 'arrogance'; when he bows to foreign leaders; when he makes secret promises to the Russian about being able to do more in his 2nd term; when he refused to meet with Israel's president, one of our staunchest allies...Again, look at his record of meetings avoided to work through the budget, or the meetings on national security. What about the total disaster of Bengazhi, and how the families of the murdered men were treated; the Eric Holdler cover-up; suggestions of gun running from Bengazhi to Syria?? Where will it end? I could fill pages of his narcissistic arrogance, but loyal Americans are aware of his failings in the 1st term and fearfully await the disaster of the 2nd term. I would love nothing more than to be able to post a big apology here stating my beliefs were wrong at the end of his term. America deserves better, and I hope we get it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Besides jimmy Carter, I'll bet you can't name another president in our lifetime that hasn't done the same things. The only diff. is the government was able to keep it quiet. But with today's technology nothing's secret. So that argument doesn't hold water......


momeee said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yup. Let's make sure druggies and alcoholics aren't responsible for their actions. They cannot help it because it is an illness is a load of crap.
> ...


Mostly


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

greanise said:


> wurzel said:
> 
> 
> > It is often much cheaper to buy over the counter.
> ...


One of my husband's prescriptions would be cheaper bo buy over the counter than on prescriptions - we have free prescriptions (age) but he still buys it to save the NHS money.

There are other excusions from paying for prescriptions, a diabetic daughter in law doesn't pay for her injections, an epileptic friend pays for NO prescriptions. There are very many misconceptions about our wonderful NBHS, which everyone should praise and not find fault with. Nobody's perfect, the man who never made a mistake never made anything.

Your words are wise, all of them, and especially the point about skin colour.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I read it. However, it is an opinion piece and not to be confused with anything factual.

It is a fact that 47% are left with no FIT liability after filing their returns. It, therefore follows that the remaining 53% are stuck with the remaining bill and obama wants to raise taxes to be "fair". It is asked, over and over, what is a fair amount but never receive an answer. It's just an ambiguous 'more'.

obama started the class warfare road and just because everyone doesn't agree with it doesn't make them, as the opinion writer stated, contemptuous. obama has, again, succeeded in dividing the American public.

The only thing that rings true to me in the piece is that there are makers, takers, and fakers. Which side has more of which, I wonder?



alcameron said:


> I'm sure nobody will bother to read this, but it might be an interesting piece for some to read if thy can consider reading anything in (gasp) the New York Times.
> Keep up the name-calling and denigrating towards people who don't share your right-leaning opinions--you show your true colors.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/opinion/krugman-makers-takers-fakers-.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think we'll go with.... " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"..... In that case.....we have two political party's sinning on a constant basis. The Republicans are the sinners when they are in office, and the Democrats when they are in office. When I'm voting and I always choose the lesser of the two evils. I picked Obama. You can nit-pick about this till you're blue in the face, and we can also dig up facts that suit our side, but the true fact is, you are going to have to bide your time till the next election and hope your candidate wins.....End of story!.......


thumper5316 said:


> I read it. However, it is an opinion piece and not to be confused with anything factual.
> 
> It is a fact that 47% are left with no FIT liability after filing their returns. It, therefore follows that the remaining 53% are stuck with the remaining bill and obama wants to raise taxes to be "fair". It is asked, over and over, what is a fair amount but never receive an answer. It's just an ambiguous 'more'.
> 
> ...


----------



## rlmayknit (Mar 14, 2011)

momeee said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > I read the site you posted. It made perfect sense. The reason the Republicans haven't been able to win a presidential election the last two elections is because their whole party is, and I can't think of a nicer way to say it, but it's a mess. Personally I don't think any intelligent Republican wants to be President right now. Or they would have chosen someone to run who could have won. I think they have to do some rethinking about who is running the show there. I am an independent voter. I vote for the person I think will do the best job of running our country. So far the Republicans haven't given me anyone I'd want to vote for. Thanks for the informative site.
> ...


You have said it a lot better then I could express it. I sure agree with you. The News Media has been biased all along. They only report for Obama, leaving out things we as Americans have the right to know. rlmayknit


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The piece in the NYT is an opinion piece. I posted it just because to me, it makes perfect sense and says what I want to say much more eloquently.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry, but you can't blame Bush. He is long gone. Obama has gotten us into a worse mess and it we are still on a slippery slope with him. There is no one else to blame now but BO.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

momeee said:


> abby8319 said:
> 
> 
> > Thumper - please - more respect for the office of the president even if you don`t support him!
> ...


Which are you, left or right, as your last two quotes did not make sense.

Cannot see the forest for the trees, and then your last quote--confusing!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


I'll put on a larger pot of coffee, dear as you need to wake up!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

As I've stated before I have the responsibility, as a citizen, to contact my representatives and let them know my views on issues. They are still supposed to represent me even though I may have not voted for them.

I agree with you that both parties have lost their focus and that focus should be what's good for the whole of the U.S. That includes high income earners. I haven't seen anything promoting good for the whole of the U.S. for quite a while. And, yes, I count Bush in that statement.



Nussa said:


> I think we'll go with.... " Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"..... In that case.....we have two political party's sinning on a constant basis. The Republicans are the sinners when they are in office, and the Democrats when they are in office. When I'm voting and I always choose the lesser of the two evils. I picked Obama. You can nit-pick about this till you're blue in the face, and we can also dig up facts that suit our side, but the true fact is, you are going to have to bide your time till the next election and hope your candidate wins.....End of story!.......
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

greanise said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


Just stating the fact that OBO does not ever mention his white side.

Remember the 50's and 60's and still today how the black groups dominated the music world and I still listen to their music today. Remember the "Rat Pack?" Sammy Davis Jr. was a riot!


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

Is it just me or does is seem that the president, congress, the government, etc.. all seem to have forgotten who they work for. They work for US! Why then are they so single minded when it comes down to policies and 'the greater good'. They only see what they want and don't care who they trample to get it.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


Well known fact that Clinton could not keep his pants zipped! Quote "I did not have sex with that woman!" Hello, oral sex is a sexual act!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The article is one man's opinion. Partly true. Does not make Obama the good guy in my opinion.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> Is it just me or does is seem that the president, congress, the government, etc.. all seem to have forgotten who they work for. They work for US! Why then are they so single minded when it comes down to policies and 'the greater good'. They only see what they want and don't care who they trample to get it.


You are right on with this quote!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, I agree with you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I third, fourth, fifth, to the hundredth power that--Thumper!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I third, fourth, fifth, to the hundredth power that--Thumper!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> abby8319 said:
> 
> 
> > Thumper - please - more respect for the office of the president even if you don`t support him!
> ...


I feel the same way. One a president disgraces the office, as some have by behavior and/or deception, he doesn't deserve respect.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > CarolfromTX said:
> ...


We may not be in agreement politically, but I agree with you that people are way too angry with those who don't share their views. It's a shame that we have come to actually hate people because we don't agree with them on an issue. Our country is so divided. It's serious and sad, and it could be dangerous if we're ever called to work together on an important national security problem. Hatred is NOT part of problem-solving.

We're all Americans - we owe each other some loyalty and kindness.


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## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

ggnorma said:


> My insurance went up $90 a month late last year. I am so glad that I was around during WWII. We had to dowith what we had, not what we felt we "needed" or wanted. I'm thankful I've got a roof over my head, running water and food on the table and a vehicle that runs most of the time. Can't ask for much more. (especially on SS. lol)


I was just a very small child during World War II, but still remember saving grease (used by USA for ammunition), rationing of sugar, gas, shoes, etc., no antibiotics (all used for the soldiers), and how we all did our part in supporting our troops.

I was also brought up to do with what we had on hand. To this day, I love eating Bread Pudding (stale bread, raisens, eggs & milk)which is a very cheap "desserts" and oatmeal (the kind you have to cook!). To this day, I do NOT believe in Credit Cards and my house payment is low enough where I will never have to worry about Foreclosure proceedings. I still cook very economically and enjoy eating "leftovers".

Too bad our children have not learned this lesson - no matter how hard we have tried to teach them. They want everything NOW which is the reason why people are so far in debit and in danger of losing their homes.

There is alot to be said for us "old timers" on how to live on a $1 but stretching it to $5!!!!!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have not called anyone on the other side any names, but I can feel and see the disrespect I get from "those people" when I write anything they disagree with. I have been respectful and civil, and I think everyone is entitled to that regardless of his/her point of view. I have had conversations with some of you in the past, inquiring about your health, etc., and I can't understand why all the vitriol still persists. I am entitled to my point of view, and so is everyone else. Nobody deserves to be told to "wake up and smell the coffee" or deserves to be called anything else in a disparaging tone. I won't be sucked down to that level. Bless you all.


If you feel I have been disrespectful to your bad mouthing Republicans, then I'm sorry, but you really should reread your remarks about the Republican supporters!

We are not a bunch of dumb bunnies as you imply with all of your quotes. We do have freedom of speech unless that will be something OBO will take away as he wants to take away our guns!

Remember history with Wounded Knee with the American Indians. If you don't know about this horrible event, then google and read!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> ggnorma said:
> 
> 
> > My insurance went up $90 a month late last year. I am so glad that I was around during WWII. We had to dowith what we had, not what we felt we "needed" or wanted. I'm thankful I've got a roof over my head, running water and food on the table and a vehicle that runs most of the time. Can't ask for much more. (especially on SS. lol)
> ...


God bless you as yes I too learned how to be frugal with money and cooking.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Thumper you "Rock!"


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> ggnorma said:
> 
> 
> > My insurance went up $90 a month late last year. I am so glad that I was around during WWII. We had to dowith what we had, not what we felt we "needed" or wanted. I'm thankful I've got a roof over my head, running water and food on the table and a vehicle that runs most of the time. Can't ask for much more. (especially on SS. lol)
> ...


Mmmm...bread pudding.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
John F. Kennedy

The Buck Stops Here

Harry S. Truman

Repect has to be earned I do not give it out freely.

President Obama when first running for President promised Change. When ask about Bush's spending said goverment has no right to raise the debt ceiling. He has now ask for it and told the legislative body he will pass an executive order to get what he wants. The only problem with this is he could be impeached,as he has no power to do this. As it is stated in the constiution only Congress has this power. He is now being brought up in two court orders as to having use that executive order to go above and beyond what the constitution has written. 
He has pass through a bill to allow Obama care to be past without any in the legislative body reading it. I blame them all for this. 
To single out smokers, when others have worst problems and are not also single out is wrong you can not not make it right if you see it as it is. 
To expect only 50 percent of the work force to pay for 50 percent of the goverment hand outs to some not all who do not deserve it, you have to know it is wrong.
To be told by our President that taxes would not be raised for the middle class and then proclaim it will be done is to me a lie. 
And this is only part of the lies that he has laid before us. I realize many President Lie to get into office, but to continue to lie, and as to cause harm to me and my fellow American's, and to abuse the powers,he has been given. Sorry but this man and all who have done the same do not and will not deserve, or get respect from me. 
None seem to want to dig into what is really going on in our goverment, and what is being done. They would rather blindly follow and think all will be right as they have chosen the right one, and he will lead then to greater good. 
so until you can show me where this man has done right by this country and the people he is suppose to serve, and obey the rules of this nation I will not give him or anyone the respect some think he deserve.
The bottom line is this man does not have a clue how to run this country, and is self serving and willing to destroy what is meant to be a nation of freedom. 
As to waiting to say I told you so, what will it benefit me or anyone in this nation. To remain silent is to except all the wrong, but to speak up now is to say I want now not to go into silent retreat and allow it to happen to my COUNTRY and the people of this nation.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


Thank you. There's no reason to be mean. I have been tempted to lash back because of what has been written to me, but I will not stoop to that level. I don't think less of someone who disagrees with me, we have far too many things in common. That's just my opinion. If people make hateful statements I DO think less of them, but I don't have to return the favor. So Ms. Janeway, I'll take that cup of coffee.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

momeee said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Amen!


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The Buck Stops Here
> ...


Amen and well said!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The laws in this country are enacted by Congress. If you disagree with how the country is being run, write to your legislators.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

alcameron said:


> The laws in this country are enacted by Congress. If you disagree with how the country is being run, write to your legislators.


Who's to say they will even read it, or consider our opinion???


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> Is it just me or does is seem that the president, congress, the government, etc.. all seem to have forgotten who they work for. They work for US! Why then are they so single minded when it comes down to policies and 'the greater good'. They only see what they want and don't care who they trample to get it.


That is true but the little lambs follow them off the cliff. Blinded by the so called light. Plus the media lying and deceiving them.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Of course we don't know if our emails or letters are read, I just think that this is one of the ways to make your voice heard. Another way is to join and/or support groups that have views like your. It's a shame how powerful lobbyists can influence the legislators. Look how powerful the gun lobby is. Look how much influence Grover Norquist has had in Congress. Those people are not elected officials and should not wield power over people we voted for.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Would you like cream and sugar?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or does is seem that the president, congress, the government, etc.. all seem to have forgotten who they work for. They work for US! Why then are they so single minded when it comes down to policies and 'the greater good'. They only see what they want and don't care who they trample to get it.
> ...


The "greater good" is what we should be striving for.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Well, as far as anyone hears, he does not claim his white part as he married a black woman and lives as a black man.


Just stating the fact that OBO does not ever mention his white side.
[/quote]

How do you live as a black man? Or a white man, come to that?

And I haven't heard everything the President has said but I've never hear him mention his white side either. Unless you've heard every word he's said you have no grounds for saying that he never mentions his white side.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He doesn't mention his white side because he identifies with his black side. And all his decisions are made for that side of the fence.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > knitnsew said:
> ...


What in the world is the greater good?????


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Joan Thelma said:


> ... oatmeal (the kind you have to cook!). ...
> 
> Too bad our children have not learned this lesson - no matter how hard we have tried to teach them. They want everything NOW which is the reason why people are so far in debit and in danger of losing their homes.


What other kind of oatmeal is there, other than that which you cook? Although I sometimes use it uncooked, instead of breadcrumbs to coat fish.

As for our children's attitude to anything, we brought them up. My own children have known what it was to be hungry so are still very careful but some of their children are indulged, often more by my children's spouses.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


The greater good as I see it is what's best for the nation as a whole.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Please explain what the difference between the "white side" and the "black side" of the fence is?


Lukelucy said:


> He doesn't mention his white side because he identifies with his black side. And all his decisions are made for that side of the fence.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

Exactly.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

I was responding to alcameron..


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> Please explain what the difference between the "white side" and the "black side" of the fence is?Seconded.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Been reading the political remarks before I go to work. Looks to me like Janeway & Thumper thrive on this type of debate. And Country Bumpkin, you seem to be the one following them off the cliff.
Believe what you like......just don't try to cram it down other peoples throats. It's amazing the nasty that can come out of people when they talk politics. I can't convince you that my opinions are the right ones, and you won't convince me that yours are the right ones. We can just agree to disagree. But some of the things you say are becoming ridiculous .... Someone made a comment about Clinton having sex with someone while in office? (And that has to do with President Obama how?) Yep...he got caught. Do you know anything about the history of our presidents? Do you know how many of them had extra marital affairs while in office? It's just they never got caught doing it. To me that remark was just a frustrated person grasping at straws. 
What ever happened to the original subject of smoking and Obama's ideas on how to try to help everyone get affordable healthcare? It didn't say Smoking and Obama bashing. The election is over. 
Like alcameron said......call your legislators if you don't like what's going on. It's low class to badmouth and bully others for their beliefs.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > knitnsew said:
> ...


The definition of 'to strive' is to take great efforts to achieve or obtain something. That would imply that an individual has taken some type of action.

I compassion has it's limits and I am getting very tired of funding those whose only action is inaction or putting forth excuses. I'm not talking about the elderly, those who are handicapped, or those who are orphaned. We, as a society, need to support those who truly can't.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm sure nobody will bother to read this, but it might be an interesting piece for some to read if thy can consider reading anything in (gasp) the New York Times.
> Keep up the name-calling and denigrating towards people who don't share your right-leaning opinions--you show your true colors.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/opinion/krugman-makers-takers-fakers-.html?ref=paulkrugman&_r=0


 :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I always said Obama needed to go.


yes you did Luke Lucy - but the majority didn't agree with you.

Why don't you just let it go, and try to say something positive???


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Been reading the political remarks before I go to work. Looks to me like Janeway & Thumper thrive on this type of debate. And Country Bumpkin, you seem to be the one following them off the cliff.
> Believe what you like......just don't try to cram it down other peoples throats. It's amazing the nasty that can come out of people when they talk politics. I can't convince you that my opinions are the right ones, and you won't convince me that yours are the right ones. We can just agree to disagree. But some of the things you say are becoming ridiculous .... Someone made a comment about Clinton having sex with someone while in office? (And that has to do with President Obama how?) Yep...he got caught. Do you know anything about the history of our presidents? Do you know how many of them had extra marital affairs while in office? It's just they never got caught doing it. To me that remark was just a frustrated person grasping at straws.
> What ever happened to the original subject of smoking and Obama's ideas on how to try to help everyone get affordable healthcare? It didn't say Smoking and Obama bashing. The election is over.
> Like alcameron said......call your legislators if you don't like what's going on. It's low class to badmouth and bully others for their beliefs.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Well, as far as anyone hears, he does not claim his white part as he married a black woman and lives as a black man.
> ...


How do you live as a black man? Or a white man, come to that?

And I haven't heard everything the President has said but I've never hear him mention his white side either. Unless you've heard every word he's said you have no grounds for saying that he never mentions his white side.[/quote]


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> ggnorma said:
> 
> 
> > My insurance went up $90 a month late last year. I am so glad that I was around during WWII. We had to dowith what we had, not what we felt we "needed" or wanted. I'm thankful I've got a roof over my head, running water and food on the table and a vehicle that runs most of the time. Can't ask for much more. (especially on SS. lol)
> ...


You are so right!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The Buck Stops Here
> ...


Excellent post, Yarnie. There's no disrespect for anyone in this post, just a good explanation of the way a lot of us feel.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Joan Thelma said:
> 
> 
> > ggnorma said:
> ...


Ah, Janeway - it's so good to have you back posting again!


----------



## Hilda (Apr 23, 2011)

Too bad people don't get as worked up about the people they elect to congress and do nothing then they get there.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


[/quote]

Why does it matter that he never mentions either his white side or his black side- what has that to do with anything? do you bring up your background, I am part Scottish and Part Irish but - If I was running for office I wouldn't bring that up either - would you? Some one always brings this up- usually the same 2 or 3 people, it has nothing to do with his policies - what does it matter? unless it is brought up because he is partly black, but if that is suggested it is treated as an insult by the person who brought up his race in the beginning. makes you wonder.

And before the person who brought up his 'marriage to a black person' asks me why I am posting here - my answer is that I feel like posting here. It does amaze me at how 
the same old rants are still being posted long after the election.

He won the election! why not try to heal the divisions instead of adding to them by constant insults etc.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I always said Obama needed to go.
> ...


I am _positive_ that obama needs to go?

Someone mentioned that I thrive on this type of debate. I have to admit that I do and because of that lack of fear to talk about it I have learned much about many things. I don't attack an individual but am not shy about pointing out what I may view as inconsistancies in thought processes. I do accept people for their views and would never think less of them because of those views. It takes all kinds to make this world go round.

I look at it this way. I like to knit, sew, quilt, etc. My husband likes to shoot pictures and guns. Not my cup of tea but I still love the man. One of my closest friends is a die hard liberal (but, hey, she knits!). Obviously, I'm not. However, that doesn't mean that we don't discuss and disagree but still care about each other. Why do so many women fear disagreement and view any disagreement as personal or confrontational? Were that the case Women's Suffrage would never had happened!

Speak up! It's our right and our responsibility as Americans.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Write your Congressmen, not your knitting friends.


theyarnlady said:


> Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
> John F. Kennedy
> 
> The Buck Stops Here
> ...


----------



## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I always said Obama needed to go.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Helgajr1 (Feb 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Joan Thelma said:
> 
> 
> > ggnorma said:
> ...


i second that :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Been reading the political remarks before I go to work. Looks to me like Janeway & Thumper thrive on this type of debate. And Country Bumpkin, you seem to be the one following them off the cliff.
> Believe what you like......just don't try to cram it down other peoples throats. It's amazing the nasty that can come out of people when they talk politics. I can't convince you that my opinions are the right ones, and you won't convince me that yours are the right ones. We can just agree to disagree. But some of the things you say are becoming ridiculous .... Someone made a comment about Clinton having sex with someone while in office? (And that has to do with President Obama how?) Yep...he got caught. Do you know anything about the history of our presidents? Do you know how many of them had extra marital affairs while in office? It's just they never got caught doing it. To me that remark was just a frustrated person grasping at straws.
> What ever happened to the original subject of smoking and Obama's ideas on how to try to help everyone get affordable healthcare? It didn't say Smoking and Obama bashing. The election is over.
> Like alcameron said......call your legislators if you don't like what's going on. It's low class to badmouth and bully others for their beliefs.


I didn't attack you personally or anyone else. Why are you attacking me? I have an opinion too. So far all I have done is amen someone. What is so wrong about that?


----------



## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Why does it matter that he never mentions either his white side or his black side- ... [/quote]

I didn't say that in the first place, I was just questioning it


----------



## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


One of our greatest rights and responsibilities! It's called freedom of speech! Why are so many so upset with that concept? That's the beauty of living in AMERICA. We have that freedom. If that and all of our other freedoms and rights were for nothing then all the men and women who gave their lives fighting for it was in vain. I thank God that I live in this country!!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
> ...


Even though I don't agree with what yarny feels, I do think that she has expressed her opinions without hate, or unkindness, which is something that is quite prevalent on this and other topics. Is it possible that there might be some truth in both sides of this question? no one is perfect - - it is the most difficult job and in my opinion he has a tiger by the tail. I think the thing that bothers me the most is that there is absolutely no give or one kind thought about him.

I personally thought GWB was an awful President who started a war which left the US in terrible financial straights - but I also thought he was at least trying to do his best and really believed the crap that others in his cabinet fed him about Sadaam. No one is perfect -including President Obama, but *is there nothing that he inherited from the previous admin that helped cause the mess he is trying to solve now*?, which he is honestly trying to solve? or is *everything that happens, including the mistakes of the past, his fault* -- on this site it seems like that is what most of you think.

The recession had started long before he took office- you all imply that *nothing* he did was any good - and that he has ulterior motives for everything. That is what I don't understand. 
so many of you hate him personally - so many of you accuse him of things that you can't prove. it is the blind hatred that 
is felt about him - it is not something I have ever seen before in the United States and I have studied your government, and Presidents for years. it is like there is a huge crevice and some are willing to absolutely destroy the country rather than *try* to work with him for the good of the country. It is very sad, in my opinion. I have avoided these threads since the election but dropped by to see what was happening here.

same old thing - the posts are exactly the same posts that were in other political threads. not one person on the right has said, it is a fact that he*was* elected and I wish him well, even though I wish he hadn't won, or I wish him well and I hope there can be some unity while he tries. I have read the posts and don't see *one* post that says that. I do see many many posts that hope he fails -- if he fails, your country will suffer, because nothing will be allowed to be done because of the way you feel. Until you convince the majority to change their opinion. He won so the basic premise of your system worked - the majority of your countrymen who voted - wanted him to win. that is a fact.

There have always been two opposite opinions but in the past usually the side that lost, pulled up their sleeves and worked out the differences as best they could - they didn't try in every way to throw road blocks in every way, not because they didn't agree, but in many cases because they did not want him to succeed - even if it hurt the country. That is what I see happening and this small group here on KP are just a sampling of the attitude that he faces- even if his policies are good - and 
even though they aren't perfect answers you will try to sink him and his policies - not because they are all wrong, but because you dislike him personally so much. It makes the world wonder what are the real reasons.

Yarn lady says respect has to be earned -- it cannot be earned if minds are made up before he even has a chance - it can't be earned if there is no willingness to respect even his office because he is in the office. Respect can't be earned if minds are so immovable that they won't even consider the possibility that some of the things he wants to do might be good.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> Write your Congressmen, not your knitting friends.
> 
> 
> theyarnlady said:
> ...


so you are telling me it is your right to voice your opinion on here to all who knit, but I am not to do this. Have I got this right? Do you really understand and read what I wrote, or do you just want me to go away, and remain silent. As to writing my congressman that is none of your business as I did not ask if you do or don't. As I have read what you have written before and never attacked you, I feel I have the right to say what I want say now. I do not respect you or your statements. You seem to me not to understand any of what is happening in your goverment, you use words, and don't seem to want anyone else to speak differently as to your beliefs. Have i got this right?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

As usual, Thumper, your responses are well conceived and make perfect sense. Thanks for hanging in.


thumper5316 said:


> As I've stated before I have the responsibility, as a citizen, to contact my representatives and let them know my views on issues. They are still supposed to represent me even though I may have not voted for them.
> 
> I agree with you that both parties have lost their focus and that focus should be what's good for the whole of the U.S. That includes high income earners. I haven't seen anything promoting good for the whole of the U.S. for quite a while. And, yes, I count Bush in that statement.
> 
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Yarn Lady - you hit the nail on the head. obama supporters can't seem to tolerate any negative info regarding him. They can't or won't look beyond the stars in their eyes to see what is happening. None of our leaders have been perfect but this one seems to relish in stirring up class warfare (remember his role as community organizer?). Intelligent, informed voters, not necessarily loyal party members, have examined BOTH sides of all issues to the best of their ability, can argue their points intelligently, without rancor, and accept truths that they may not like. His sycophants proudly recite whatever irrelevant event he has conquered and ignored his incompetent, sometimes questionably illegal doings as if they never existed - Benghazi, Holder and arms, budget failings, doing nothing for 1st term...
and you are also correct in that our concerns should be shouted from every roof and venue until enough citizens start to look critically and accurately at the events of 2008- 2016 so that later they aren't left wondering, "How did we get in this mess?". Many of our 'knitting friends' do see what is evolving.


theyarnlady said:


> knovice knitter said:
> 
> 
> > Write your Congressmen, not your knitting friends.
> ...


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## susannahp (Nov 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> thebetters2010 said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


I am from Canada and I have never ever had a problem with health care here , the ppl who have life threatening problems are first in line , my little surgery could wait, two years ago I had my rotater cuff done and in a timely manner , within one month of seeing the surgeon I was in the OR and it was done , although they did call and asked me to push the surgery back three days as there was a cancer case that had to be done asap, I for one having had cancer myself thought nothing of it but there are a lot of ppl who cannot or will not see that their little medical situations need to be done right away. Im sorry to say that they are self indulgent ppl , why would you go and spend thousands of dollars somewhere else when you get the help you need for nothing at home !! We all get treated the same and after living in the US for a while , I came to see that something has to be done for the ppl , so many dying because they cant afford to see a doctor or have surgery , a friend of mine went to emerg and had to have her gall bladder out it cost over 67,000 dollars OMG no wonder ppl go bankrupt without medical care that is just crazy and believe me the insurance companies make billions of dollars on the backs of hard working ppl in the US and they for one will lobby against anything that the ppl need !!! After all who is really running things in the US ? Yes you got it big business ...Hubby is from the States and we see both sides to a lot of things!!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hilda said:


> Too bad people don't get as worked up about the people they elect to congress and do nothing then they get there.


True. We've been lucky in Georgia to have Saxby Chambliss as our senator. He responds to his constituents, and he is strong. Unfortunately, he's leaving after this term and says it's due to the hostile environment in D.C. I don't blame him, but we sure will miss him.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Designer1234 said:
> ...


You are so right and I agree with you 100%. Some would ask us to remain silent if not in agreement as to what they have posted. I will not go silently to have someone say I should not speak up my beliefs because I do not talk her way. I am very upset with her at this moment, so I should be careful as to what I feel or say and would really like to say to her. One sentence from her then she wants me to go away. Yet she feels it is her right to post what she thinks. I do not live in a country where I am not allowed this freedom and she is.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


Why does it matter that he never mentions either his white side or his black side- what has that to do with anything? do you bring up your background, I am part Scottish and Part Irish but - If I was running for office I wouldn't bring that up either - would you? Some one always brings this up- usually the same 2 or 3 people, it has nothing to do with his policies - what does it matter? unless it is brought up because he is partly black, but if that is suggested it is treated as an insult by the person who brought up his race in the beginning. makes you wonder.

And before the person who brought up his 'marriage to a black person' asks me why I am posting here - my answer is that I feel like posting here. It does amaze me at how 
the same old rants are still being posted long after the election.

He won the election! why not try to heal the divisions instead of adding to them by constant insults etc.[/quote]

No if I were you I wouldn't bring that up either. Just kidding. HA HA.

The facts show that his policies have not been good for the blacks but he continues to garner their support. Demographic for employment show that the black female population has suffered the greatest , yet they continue to support his policies. Bailing out the auto industry, giving 535 million dollars to Solyndra to go bankrupt is not in their best interests. And there are others too numerous to count.

I prefer our country to be colorblind but they keep pushing the race card black/ white/ asian/ Indian divide. I dislike when filling out forms they have white and I always check other. 
Would someone please tell them white is not a race!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


When this man was first elected, I was proud that we had come a long way with the Race facter. I was not into finding wrong with him and hope he would bring about change. But as he continue to change what he said before he was elected, changed my opinion of this man. I like others have said before vote for the person who will best serve this country. As he has had four years, and has not kept but one promise and has seem to feel he can do what ever he wants, and not respect the consitution of this country, no no no. When only 60 percent in this country onlyvote, when I see on TV that some voted for him and did not even know what his policies were, and did not care to find out. I question did he really win, or did he just know how to appease the people with empty promises.


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## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

Lina said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


 :lol:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

susannahp said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > thebetters2010 said:
> ...


I've traveled a lot in Canada. Several years ago took the train from Toronto to Vancouver and met a lady on the train who was waiting for her first knee surgery. Had had a prior surgery that year and couldn't get another until a specified time had passed and then only one knee and after that another wait for the second knee surgery. Recently we drove 6400 miles to Labrador and during that time we discovered that the health care plans in Nova Scotia seemed to be better than other provinces in the area. From this realized that there is a variance of level of care.

Having been in the health care profession and involved intimately with payment schedules I find it hard to believe that gall bladder surgery would cost $67,000. That is a relatively simple surgery usually done at an outpatient surgical center. Your friend must have had unexpected complications. I don't know what the payment schedule is now but for every procedure there is an associated fee schedule if the patient has insurance.

I agree that the insurance companies make out like bandits. They raise their premiums and then when you need something they will fight to avoid paying or tell the doctor it is not medically necessary. There is much in this industry that needs a fix. Another area which affects medical care is what is known as defensive medicine whereby the physician needs to order more tests than may be medically necessary but due to the possibility of litigation the docs need to CTAs. We are a very litigious culture which doesn't do well for us.


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## Omnivore (Apr 16, 2012)

O.M.G all that money for a gall bladder operation. it's insane that so many people don't look after their health.


susannahp said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > thebetters2010 said:
> ...


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## abby8319 (Feb 9, 2011)

The "white side" would NOT allow the black side to enter the white side. Well known that any little bit of black is
considered black - not matter how much white is involved.
I`m a white northerner living in the south - you would not
believe the N word I hear even now. As for guns, the few that
I live near who own guns use them indiscriminately to shoo
birds and people who ring doorbells. Is that what the 2nd
amendment wants?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Even though I don't agree with what yarny feels, I do think that she has expressed her opinions without hate, or unkindness, which is something that is quite prevalent on this and other topics. Is it possible that there might be some truth in both sides of this question? no one is perfect - - it is the most difficult job and in my opinion he has a tiger by the tail. I think the thing that bothers me the most is that there is absolutely no give or one kind thought about him.
> 
> I personally thought GWB was an awful President who started a war which left the US in terrible financial straights - but I also thought he was at least trying to do his best and really believed the crap that others in his cabinet fed him about Sadaam. No one is perfect -including President Obama, but *is there nothing that he inherited from the previous admin that helped cause the mess he is trying to solve now*?, which he is honestly trying to solve? or is *everything that happens, including the mistakes of the past, his fault* -- on this site it seems like that is what most of you think.
> 
> ...


Designer, obama has had a chance. He's had four years and, for some unexplicable reason, is being given four more. What has improved in the previous four years? And no fair blaming Bush. He's long gone and, for the record, I didn't much care for him either. What is it that obama wants to do that might be good to the country as a whole that won't cost those of us who pay the taxes an arm and a leg?

I dislike him because I don't know anything about him that hasn't been spoon-fed to us by the media. That which I want to know is nowhere to be found. You talk about the huge crevice. Why do you think that is? He hasn't succeeded in uniting the country. On the contrary he's made it worse and he has no one to blame but himself and it is for that main reason that I don't respect him and I don't think he really cares about middle class Americans. His policies, to date, have been devistating financially for us.

I'm glad you posted. I have to say that I like having the ability to post here. It's much easier than some of the other options like Facebook. There are people from all over the world here. I learn so much about what is happening to the every-day person as a result of their countries policies and their views on ours that I would not find out anywhere else. It's very interesting!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


Although I did not vote for him I did think at the time that it was good that a black man was elected President and that maybe the race card would now be put to death. That was not the case.

He made many promises among them to have the "most TRANSPARENT" government. And then began the meetings behind closed doors regarding his Obamacare. Then continuing the failed buyouts and economic policies of Bush and I realized it was more of the same except on a larger scale. So you see I do not trust him so cannot respect him. I do respect the Office of the President and only wish that he would also. And there is a hint in my mind that he does want to destroy our country and that makes me fearful of him.

It also concerns me that he has no leadership qualities. Nor does he have executive skills. His only experience prior to becoming President was as a community leader and in the congress where he seldom cast a vote or was present so he is ill prepared for the job he is trying to do.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

RUKnitting said it beautifully!


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I meant if you want change, write your congressmen, not your knitting friends. Silly me, I thought I was one of them. Of course you can voice your opinion. In this case you are either preaching to your choir or spitting in the wind. No minds will be changed here, but if your congressmen hear from their constituents and want to be voted in again, then let them know how you feel. You and we are their bosses. We have to give them job reviews and tell them what we want of them. That's all I was trying to say. I am sorry you don't respect me. Personal attacks make my respect wane a bit as well.


theyarnlady said:


> knovice knitter said:
> 
> 
> > Write your Congressmen, not your knitting friends.
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Thumper, we had to put up with G.W. Bush for two terms, now it's your turn. Please try to do it graciously.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


There was nothing gracious about the way Bush was treated.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

No disrespect? Yarnie just told me she has no respect for me. You compliment her and back her up saying there is no disrespect and two posts later, she announces her disrespect as I only suggested change can only come if she contact her congressmen. Go firgure.


bonbf3 said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.
> ...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????


I think MSNBC is just as much at fault as Fox. so I agree with you about that Margaret - I just think that Obama did win with a majority vote so the majority of your citizens agree with him- so for the next four years you will have to accept that. so maybe pull together a bit? I have never seen any thing written by him, or heard him say that he wants to get rid of Fox news, did you hear him say that? I think he might not like Fox news but I have never heard of him saying anything about it. oh well, once again it is a foolish thing on my part to even come in here. I never seem to learn.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I respectfully disagree..... Clinton straitened out all that mess that came before him, and made our country profitable. Bush came in, made unilateral decisions and put us into the mess we are in now. He took every penny that had been saved and spent it all on a war based on lies. When his presidency was done, he left us deep in the red, and left that mess for President Obama to clean up. Give Obama his last 4 years and let's see what happens. That's what we do with all our presidents. We all vote, and take what we get. We may not like it, and believe me, I vehemently disliked the Bush years...... But I was respectful about it. I don't see that from you. Show some respect for your country.....Just Saying!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


Clinton was the one that started the whole housing bubble fiasco. He was the one that signed the bill requiring lenders to lift requirements so more minorities could get mortgages. The bubble finally burst in 2008, long after Clinton was no longer in the WH. Technically, Obama should have been blaming Clinton these last 4 years. How ironic is that?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Designer1234 said:
> ...


Even though I don't agree with you about him I can see that you have reasons for your feelings which are well thought out - I don't see him that way- but at lease you have thought clearly about him and don't agree with what he has done-- that is fair, but my point is -- that the majority don't agree with you and so 
aren't you therefore in a position to try to find places where you can help the situation rather than try to, because of your dislike for him, try to avoid allowing him to do anything at all - when there is the necessity of taking some actions which will try to stave off the recession? ]

I think you personally would, however I also think that there is enough dislike and distrust of him, that there is no way that most people who do hate him will give an inch -- that is where I can't see anything but disaster for your country if something doesn't happen so that cooperation isn't impossible between the
left and the right at least trying to reach a middle ground.

this is just my opinion - and it is good to have a discussion rather than an argument.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> alcameron..... I believe certain types of people are called bullies. they are the ones who can't stand loosing, and will fight to their last breath for the right to be wrong. In that case, so be it.
> Fact is,..... Obama won.....Romney didn't... why? Because thank God there weren't enough bullies to vote him in.


So now anyone who didn't vote for Obama is a bully? You call on people to be gracious to Obama in one post and in another you are calling them bullies. What's up with that?


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

Sadly enough, the dems think they're right and the republicans think they're right, and they both think the other is wrong. Let's just accept that we can all have our own opinions and speak them freely without name calling and nasty comments. We may not all like or respect our president but we can atleast respect the position that he holds and pray for him to make the right decisions that are best for this country.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitnsew said:


> Is it just me or does is seem that the president, congress, the government, etc.. all seem to have forgotten who they work for. They work for US! Why then are they so single minded when it comes down to policies and 'the greater good'. They only see what they want and don't care who they trample to get it.


It's not just you. They work for themselves until it's time for reelection. Their pocketbook and what's in it for them rules the way they vote on issues. Their attitude makes the case for term limits.


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## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I have not called anyone on the other side any names, but I can feel and see the disrespect I get from "those people" when I write anything they disagree with. I have been respectful and civil, and I think everyone is entitled to that regardless of his/her point of view. I have had conversations with some of you in the past, inquiring about your health, etc., and I can't understand why all the vitriol still persists. I am entitled to my point of view, and so is everyone else. Nobody deserves to be told to "wake up and smell the coffee" or deserves to be called anything else in a disparaging tone. I won't be sucked down to that level. Bless you all.
> ...


google is an arm of obama's media monopoly.


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## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????


Country Bumpkin, I like your "empty chair"


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## Lina (Jan 17, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


"Greater good is a communist term.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Thumper, we had to put up with G.W. Bush for two terms, now it's your turn. Please try to do it graciously.
> ...


If you had written it the way you did now I would have respected you more, but as you seem to think you can and did post it the way you did, I should have been greatful. Well i wasn't, and still feel you are changing it now as to being told what I first believe you said. Still you have not understood what I wrote.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> The laws in this country are enacted by Congress. If you disagree with how the country is being run, write to your legislators.


This is true. Congress also does nothing when they see the laws are not being obeyed. Good example of this is immigration laws not being obeyed. Arizona wrote state laws, because the people wrote them, so they could do the federal government's job and enforce the immigration laws. The federal government turned around and sued Arizona for passing those laws. How do you get around this nonsense? This country doesn't always need NEW laws, but need the laws on the books obeyed.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> No disrespect? Yarnie just told me she has no respect for me. You compliment her and back her up saying there is no disrespect and two posts later, she announces her disrespect as I only suggested change can only come if she contact her congressmen. Go firgure.
> 
> 
> bonbf3 said:
> ...


Why would you know come on with the I didn't mean this I meant that. When I respected your post and did not comment, you felt you could say what you wanted, and put it in such away that I and others read it the same way. As I have seen you do this before I question why. I do respect people who want to engage me in a fair way, but when it is posted the way you did what would you think???


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????
> ...


obama didn't say that he wanted to get rid of Fox news. One of his underlings/media supporters said it recently. I can't say who, exactly, but I recall hearing about it. It's been said by so many people I've lost count. I just ignore it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


Why does it matter that he never mentions either his white side or his black side- what has that to do with anything? do you bring up your background, I am part Scottish and Part Irish but - If I was running for office I wouldn't bring that up either - would you? Some one always brings this up- usually the same 2 or 3 people, it has nothing to do with his policies - what does it matter? unless it is brought up because he is partly black, but if that is suggested it is treated as an insult by the person who brought up his race in the beginning. makes you wonder.

And before the person who brought up his 'marriage to a black person' asks me why I am posting here - my answer is that I feel like posting here. It does amaze me at how 
the same old rants are still being posted long after the election.

He won the election! why not try to heal the divisions instead of adding to them by constant insults etc.[/quote]

You might not bring it up, but someone would. That someone would pit your Scottish side against your Irish side and the games would begin. That's how things are done now, although I am not condoning it.

The only time I remember Obama referring to his "white" side was when he was saying that he was a half breed. He said he had a white mother and a black father, so that made him a half breed in some people's eyes. This was obviously during the first primary.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


He did say that about Fox news...
before his election the first term, right after he got in office his first term, and even excluded them from his briefings.
When he was finally told to allow them into the briefings, he ignored their questions.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Lina said:


> google is an arm of obama's media monopoly.


???

Evidence?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Your response to knitansew, was and I quote -

(That is true but the little lambs follow them off the cliff. Blinded by the so called light. Plus the media lying and deceiving them.) Unquote.

I don't feel that those of us who don't see things your way are following anyone (President or congress) off any cliff. Because I believe in my President doesn't make me a mindless idiot. You said a lot more than just AMEN.
You also talked about freedom of speech.....I'm just exercising my right to that freedom. When you use your freedom of speech you have to be able to take any backlash that may come from it.

I'd also like to say "Amen" to Designer1234, who just happens to be my northern neighbor. She's from Canada, and she told it better than anyone else has. I guess you have to be able to stand back and watch and see what's actually happening, to be able to give an unbiased opinion. :thumbup:



Country Bumpkins said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Been reading the political remarks before I go to work. Looks to me like Janeway & Thumper thrive on this type of debate. And Country Bumpkin, you seem to be the one following them off the cliff.
> ...


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

"Greater good is a communist term.[/quote]

Does that make it good or bad? I'm confused ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

There are so many quotes and quotes of quotes that I don't know who's saying what any more! 
I don't think of the phrase "greater good" as anything Communist and I really don't think Google or any other part of the media is controlled by Obama. Good grief! Paranoia and fear are running rampart around here! That's the Fox News tactic speaking.
And now my plane is boarding . . . .


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Nicely said, and I am in full agreement. However, his background, education, writings, employment, evaluations, associations, supporters,previous exaggerations and lies he told, and beliefs were available on line with some searching prior to the 2008 election. Not so sure now. While I was happy that a mixed-race person could be elected, I did not vote for obama because of what I unearthed. I was hopeful that he'd fulfill his promises but have been sorely disappointed.

"Designer, obama has had a chance. He's had four years and, for some inexplicable reason, is being given four more. What has improved in the previous four years? And no fair blaming Bush. He's long gone and, for the record, I didn't much care for him either. What is it that obama wants to do that might be good to the country as a whole that won't cost those of us who pay the taxes an arm and a leg?

I dislike him because I don't know anything about him that hasn't been spoon-fed to us by the media. That which I want to know is nowhere to be found. You talk about the huge crevice. Why do you think that is? He hasn't succeeded in uniting the country. On the contrary he's made it worse and he has no one to blame but himself and it is for that main reason that I don't respect him and I don't think he really cares about middle class Americans. His policies, to date, have been devastating financially for us.

I'm glad you posted. I have to say that I like having the ability to post here. It's much easier than some of the other options like Facebook. There are people from all over the world here. I learn so much about what is happening to the every-day person as a result of their countries policies and their views on ours that I would not find out anywhere else. It's very interesting![/quote]


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Anyone concerned about why obama is pushing for HIS immigration reform so fast (rather than working on the budget or running the country)? Read here and go to 
Nationalreview.com for further info. Obama Tips His Hand: He Would Rather Have the Immigration Issue to run on in 2014,i.e., another way of buying votes or voters...

Here's the immigration debate in a nutshell: Obama and most of the Democrats want 11 million new Democratic voters, and they want them now. This is why the "non-immigrant visa" and temporary working papers, with a potential path to citizenship that could take 15 years, aren't sufficient for them.

The most infuriating bits of Obama's campaign rally to demand the passage of immigration-reform legislation that he hasn't introduced yet:

I'm here today because the time has come for common-sense, comprehensive immigration reform. Applause.) The time is now. Now is the time. Now is the time. Now is the time.

AUDIENCE: Sí se puede! Sí se puede!

THE PRESIDENT: Now is the time.

Gee, you think he had a slogan he wanted to make sure got in the coverage? Later:

We can't allow immigration reform to get bogged down in an endless debate. We've been debating this a very long time. So it's not as if we don't know technically what needs to get done.

Oh, really? Because the whole reason this is controversial is because there is genuine, passionate disagreement about "what needs to get done."...



soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > The laws in this country are enacted by Congress. If you disagree with how the country is being run, write to your legislators.
> ...


----------



## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't know if :

quote"Greater good is a communist term.[/quote]

but,from The Washington Times, Obama's slogan "Forward" has along ties to Marxism and Socialism. It reflected the conviction of European Marxist and Radicals that their movements reflects the march of history, which would move forward past capitalism and into socialism and communism. Connecting the dots can be an eye opener.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

lukka said:


> I don't know if :
> 
> quote"Greater good is a communist term.


but,from The Washington Times, Obama's slogan "Forward" has along ties to Marxism and Socialism. It reflected the conviction of European Marxist and Radicals that their movements reflects the march of history, which would move forward past capitalism and into socialism and communism. Connecting the dots can be an eye opener.[/quote]

And is that a problem?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting you are right again. These facts cannot be disputed. He is divisive, non-collaborative, and arrogant enough to get his agenda in what ever way is possible...anyone hear of his Executive Orders? Be afraid.


RUKnitting said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Designer1234 said:
> ...


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

I did'nt say I had problem, that's just your history lesson for the day.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

lukka said:


> I did'nt say I had problem, that's just your history lesson for the day.


You think I need a history lesson?

How patronising.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

The only difference between the Bush years and the Obama years, is that there wasn't all the propaganda on the internet like there is today. You can say it's all true, and I'll bet I could find a site that says it isn't. So really, we're all wasting our time aren't we? 

But I too wonder why so many people have such a personal hate for President Obama. I haven't always liked everything he's done either, but I can't think of anything he has done to personally hurt me. In my eyes he's done no more damage to this country than any past president. And in many cases far less. Have some of you probably been in some of the natural disasters that have plagued our states the last few years and think Obama hasn't helped you enough? I am serious about my question. Have you lost jobs because of something you think he's done? I'm not looking for the same political answers we've been getting. To be honest, I don't think I've every heard so many people say they hate one person so much. Yet not one person has written anything useful that doesn't include blame and hate.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> The only difference between the Bush years and the Obama years, is that there wasn't all the propaganda on the internet like there is today. You can say it's all true, and I'll bet I could find a site that says it isn't. So really, we're all wasting our time aren't we?
> 
> But I too wonder why so many people have such a personal hate for President Obama. I haven't always liked everything he's done either, but I can't think of anything he has done to personally hurt me. In my eyes he's done no more damage to this country than any past president. And in many cases far less. Have some of you probably been in some of the natural disasters that have plagued our states the last few years and think Obama hasn't helped you enough? I am serious about my question. Have you lost jobs because of something you think he's done? I'm not looking for the same political answers we've been getting. To be honest, I don't think I've every heard so many people say they hate one person so much. Yet not one person has written anything useful that doesn't include blame and hate.


Not me personally, but 3 members of my family had lost jobs in the coal industry which is directly related to the regulations he has set in place.

I do not hate Obama, I dislike his policies and his desire for big government. I am getting tired of those that love Obama making blanket statements that I am a racist and am hateful because I don't agree with Obama. It's old and all it accomplishes is further division of this country.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I totally agree with you!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> lukka said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if :
> ...


So silly
And is that a problem?[/quote]


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

He's written the least amout og EO of any recent president


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lina said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????
> ...


  ;-) :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> "Greater good is a communist term.


Does that make it good or bad? I'm confused ...[/quote]

Bad for me! If I wanted to be a communist I would move to another country.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Hi, Country Bumpkins! I always agree with you.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Hi, Country Bumpkins! I always agree with you.


Somes like old times. :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

lukka said:


> I don't know if :
> 
> quote"Greater good is a communist term.


but,from The Washington Times, Obama's slogan "Forward" has along ties to Marxism and Socialism. It reflected the conviction of European Marxist and Radicals that their movements reflects the march of history, which would move forward past capitalism and into socialism and communism. Connecting the dots can be an eye opener.[/quote]

:thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> He's written the least amout og EO of any recent president


It's not the number of executive orders issued but what the order was for. obama's are most critical because of the content. It's clear that many of them violate the rules of legislative order and should be overturned.

obamacare should have been overturned the moment the SCOTUS determined that the "fees" were really taxes. The taxes were not implemented via legislative process.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > He's written the least amout og EO of any recent president
> ...


Now you asre a constitutional lawyer DO you not trust our Right Wing Supreme Court justices?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Never said I was and would never profess to be one. The whole premise of the cost included in the plan was that they were fees and not taxes. SCOTUS said it was not constitutional as the govt could not assess fees. So, obama and his cronies said they were taxes. So, they lied to all of us so they could get their way.

Now we have the illegal alien issue. obama, knowing it would never float going through the full legal process issues it via EO. Why are we letting him get away with this stuff?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nussa said:


> The only difference between the Bush years and the Obama years, is that there wasn't all the propaganda on the internet like there is today. You can say it's all true, and I'll bet I could find a site that says it isn't. So really, we're all wasting our time aren't we?
> 
> But I too wonder why so many people have such a personal hate for President Obama. I haven't always liked everything he's done either, but I can't think of anything he has done to personally hurt me. In my eyes he's done no more damage to this country than any past president. And in many cases far less. Have some of you probably been in some of the natural disasters that have plagued our states the last few years and think Obama hasn't helped you enough? I am serious about my question. Have you lost jobs because of something you think he's done? I'm not looking for the same political answers we've been getting. To be honest, I don't think I've every heard so many people say they hate one person so much. Yet not one person has written anything useful that doesn't include blame and hate.


I agree that there is so much garbage on the Internet. However, I can honestly say that there is not one thing that the man has done that I have agreed with. I haven't lost my job but my paycheck is a heck of a lot lighter than it used to be. I also live in a heavily democrat state and our current governor has never met a tax he didn't like. The republicans had the house and the legislature until the last election and I have to say they blew it. Now we have all democrats and they are just salivating. You wouldn't believe the new crop of taxes that they are looking to vote in.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Thumper - Good job. we need to keep attempting others see what the evidence shows. Eventually, I hope, more will be willing to make their voices heard. It is difficult for me to give an accurate account of the abuses committed by this administration without keeping notes! And I'm no longer a student and feel so inadequate at remembering all the events - there seem to be so many! No one seems able to take up the standard and march forward.


thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


No and she never said she was. what she is is a person who reads and searches for the truth of what is going on in this country. Which is something we all should be doing, instead of excepting what someone or TV, Or Radio or news cast may say.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Designer1234 said:
> ...


Also in this months NewWeek magazine, in an interview Obama had with this magazine he told writer, that the reason the Republican's would not agree to what he and his party wanted done, was because of Fox News, and Rush Limbaugh Gee that seems to be alot of control for a News station and a person, for him to think they control ever Republican. I find that statement just plain silly.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

And yet another instance of violating the Constitution: A Court Rules... Obama Violated the Constitution
01/30/13

From Slate.com:
Recess appointments.A federal appeals court offered an unexpected rebuke to President Obama today, ruling that he violated the Constitution last year when he bypassed the Senate to fill a trio of vacancies on the National Labor Relations Board. The Associated Press with the details:

The unanimous decision is an embarrassing setback for the president, who made the appointments after Senate Republicans spent months blocking his choices for an agency they contended was biased in favor of unions. The ruling also throws into question Obama's recess appointment of Richard Cordray to head the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Cordray's appointment, also made under the recess circumstance, has been challenged in a separate case.

Read more at http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130130003-court-rules-obama.html#3gLcaShqFlgL6Eor.99


thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > He's written the least amout og EO of any recent president
> ...


What is the content of his EO? Have you compared them to other presidents?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I thought the immigration issue was being tackled by Congress, both Dem and Rep. Something has to be done. I believe we should do this bilaterally. But I also believe that their should be a way to attain citizenship.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Did you read my message? I apologized, but still would make you a pot of coffee to chat--like cream and sugar? Chocolate cake too?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> And yet another instance of violating the Constitution: A Court Rules... Obama Violated the Constitution
> 01/30/13
> 
> From Slate.com:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Yes, I actually looked at what each obama and G.W. issued. Google them and you, too, can see exactly what each one was for.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, yes, yes. Obama is leading us into socialism. I hope I will be dead before it gets very bad. It is the youth of today who must face what he has done.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


That is the current "push". By EO he decreed, last year I recall, that the children brought by illegals could stay in the US. This is in direct contradiction to federal laws.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well Thumper, if the Republicans hadn't said NO to absolutely everything Obama wanted to bring up during his first term we would know what those taxes were. If they hadn't overruled everything he said and did, I might have had a reason to vote Republican in the last election. But I didn't. All I saw was a president trying to make headway, and a group of Republicans saying "We're not listening to you". We're going to vote you out next term and we'll do what we want. 
But instead they shot themselves in the foot. Like I've said before. I hate bullies, and that's what I feel the Republicans did to the Democrats. I resent not even getting to see what kind of a president Obama can be. All because the Republicans had all the power. So I voted for him again hoping to see what he can do, given the chance. I'm pretty sure the Republicans are scared now, because the fact is, Obama doesn't have anything left to loose, and he can't be voted in again. All the Republicans had to do the first time was to meet him halfway, but they refused. Now it looks like someone has to pay. And if it's us, we have only the Republicans to thank for it. That is my opinion.



thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Yarnie, keep up the good work--you rock!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Yes, a legal way to attain citizenship. We can't afford to reward illegal actions. Too many immigrants who would be assets to the US have waited a long time for acceptance. Those who avoid this should not be admitted. Alsi, I believe that the babies born to illegals who come to the US to give birth should not be granted automatic citizenship- as it is an automatic entry for the parent. Can we afford this :Medicare Paid Out $92M to Claims By Illegals ???
Read more at http://reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130130005-palin-cut.html#VbqG5MidotzIkHS8.99


rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Nussa, you are absolutely right! In fact, even moderate Republicans were bullied into taking positions that they really didn't believe. I was enormously cheered up to learn that the Dems and Repubs had put four of each, and higher ups, at that into the same room and that they came up with a halfway decent compromise on an Immigration bill. I admit to being a liberal Democrat, but Ialso believe in a two party system. This seems to be a beginning!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


[/quote]

Designer, you're back! I still cannot do your workshop but wish my health would stabilize so I can do more things. My friends have been praying for me so last test on kidneys was better--prayers do help.

Would you like a pot of coffee? We could chat!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Been reading the political remarks before I go to work. Looks to me like Janeway & Thumper thrive on this type of debate. And Country Bumpkin, you seem to be the one following them off the cliff.
> ...


Nussa, don't attack Country as she did not attack you. You have been attacking everyone who you think do not agree with you.

How about some hot chocolate to soothe your nerves!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lina said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Only if you are for o or left. He wants to take off Fox news because they tell it like it is. If that happens then they need to take off Chris Matthews and all the other kooks like him. If we want to be fair about it. Right? Freedom of speech being free. Not for long. When do I get to tell something positive about o????
> ...


Clint Eastwood said it best--an Oscar performance!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


 :lol: 
Man, he opens mouth and inserts foot so many times it is becoming hilarious. 
It seems the only things that are becoming transparent is his paranoia, his fear of getting caught, and all the other things he is trying to hide and hide from. 
(For which he and he alone only knows what some of them are).:lol:
He really has some sort of vendetta going against Fox News.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Please explain what the difference between the "white side" and the "black side" of the fence is?Seconded.
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm sorry, I don't get it.


Janeway said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> I'm sorry, I don't get it.
> 
> 
> Janeway said:
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

What is wrong with you?


Janeway said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, I don't get it.
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> What is wrong with you?
> 
> 
> Janeway said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I do not accept everything on TV radio or newspaper but I would like an example of Obama's overreach in an executive order. I do think that you ,accept fox news as news and not the entertainment it is
.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I have attacked no one......I was just exercising my right to free speech like everyone else on this page. I called no one names. I just said I resented being lumped into a group of people, "Because we agree with President Obama's beliefs," who would blindly follow him off a cliff. "Country" and some others seem to think he is the devil incarnate. My words, not theirs.
If Country feels she needs defending, I'm sure she can do it herself just fine.

No hot chocolate for me thank you, I prefer a little coffee with my cream and sugar.... 



Janeway said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Nussa said:
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I have attacked no one......I was just exercising my right to free speech like everyone else on this page. I called no one names. I just said I resented being lumped into a group of people, "Because we agree with President Obama's beliefs," who would blindly follow him off a cliff. "Country" and some others seem to think he is the devil incarnate. My words, not theirs.
> If Country feels she needs defending, I'm sure she can do it herself just fine.
> 
> No hot chocolate for me thank you, I prefer a little coffee with my cream and sugar....
> ...


OK, but I only drink half caf so is that OK? I only use half and half creamer and honey. Want a clear cup or a colored cup?

Want me to draw you a picture? I'm good with art!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jane I am glad we are Blood sisters.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa always nice to have a friend cover your rear.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry, that's not going to work. I like my caffeine, and use powdered coffee-mate and Splenda. But thanks for the offer. 



Janeway said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > I have attacked no one......I was just exercising my right to free speech like everyone else on this page. I called no one names. I just said I resented being lumped into a group of people, "Because we agree with President Obama's beliefs," who would blindly follow him off a cliff. "Country" and some others seem to think he is the devil incarnate. My words, not theirs.
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nussa always nice to have a friend cover your rear.


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Nussa always nice to have a friend cover your rear.
> ...


 :lol: Hugs!


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

Courier770- Thanks for your valuable contributions to this thread. I came in very late (41 pages late) into this convo and I was glad to see your comment on page 4ish regarding the term "Obamacare" It's the Affordable Care Act and for those who don't understand it, you should read up on it before you knock it, some day it might save your life...literally!


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## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.


THE BEST E-MAIL I HAVE READ ABOUT THE ELECTION.
Don't know who this Pastor is but he hit the nail on the head. As for me, he straightened me out as I was so disappointed at the direction our country has taken since Obama has became president.
What a wonderful attitude this man has. Hope you enjoy this as much as I did.

(WRITTEN BY A PASTOR)
I like many Americans was deeply saddened by the reelection of Obama on Tuesday, was quick to be ashamed of America and the people who voted for him and also questioned why God would allow this to happen. Today I started to reflect upon what happened and why. Then it hit me that I wasn't trusting God and He is still in control!&#65533;

&#65533; &#65533; &#65533; &#65533;Perhaps God in his wisdom knew that Romney was not the right choice for us at this time. Perhaps God in his wisdom knew that whomever got elected was going to face huge problems and why shouldn't Obama be the one to shoulder that responsibility. After all he is the one who has misled, lied to the American people, and has further plans for the destruction of our Country as we have known and loved it.&#65533;

&#65533; &#65533; &#65533; &#65533;He now has to "inherit" his own mess and can't blame it on someone else. The media would have crucified Romney over the next four years for "ruining" Obama's hope and change plans and blamed him for all the problems. I believe that our God will show this nation what happens when you allow Godless people to manage the gifts this nation has to offer and He provided for us.&#65533;

&#65533; &#65533; &#65533; &#65533;I believe He will expose Obama once and for all for the failure he is and our corrupt media will not be able to save him. I also believe that Obama's attitude and treatment of Israel is not looked upon by God as obeying his command and Obama will have to answer for that. We have another Congressional election coming up in two years and maybe we can get rid of some of the democratic critters that occupy Congress today.&#65533;

&#65533; &#65533; &#65533; &#65533;Maybe in four years we can run a ticket for President and Vice President like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio. Maybe when America again suffers serious setbacks, people will realize what a weak and corrupt management team we have and be tired of it. I will not question God's wisdom or plans He has for us again, because He is in control and has always done what's best for us. We are reminded that prayer isn't always answered in the way we would like at the time, but God does answer our prayers in His time and in a way that is best for His children.&#65533;

&#65533; &#65533; &#65533; &#65533;So, let's keep the Faith, lay our worries at His feet and trust God to take care of us!

This was on my heart today and I hope you all don't mind my expressing these thoughts to you. I am in need of strength, encouragement and understanding as are so many of the faithful and good Americans in our Country today!
  :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Sarah Jo said:


> Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.
> 
> THE BEST E-MAIL I HAVE READ ABOUT THE ELECTION.
> Don't know who this Pastor is but he hit the nail on the head. As for me, he straightened me out as I was so disappointed at the direction our country has taken since Obama has became president.
> ...


Thanks Sis. It is truly in His hands. There will be people turning to God for help during these times. Goverment cant save men but God can.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> "Greater good is a communist term.


Does that make it good or bad? I'm confused ...[/quote]

You Decide


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Amazing. Wisconsin, where I hail, uses the slogan Forward and has since 1848. There is a statue on top of the capitol dome entitled "Forward". Wonder what ol' Senator Joseph McCarthy thought of that. I am sure if he knew it had Communist ties,he would have had the whole of Wisconsin, the architect and the artist of the statue put before the House UnAmerican Committee. Fascinating.

but,from The Washington Times, Obama's slogan "Forward" has along ties to Marxism and Socialism. It reflected the conviction of European Marxist and Radicals that their movements reflects the march of history, which would move forward past capitalism and into socialism and communism. Connecting the dots can be an eye opener.[/quote]


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

ZENmama said:


> Courier770- Thanks for your valuable contributions to this thread. I came in very late (41 pages late) into this convo and I was glad to see your comment on page 4ish regarding the term "Obamacare" It's the Affordable Care Act and for those who don't understand it, you should read up on it before you knock it, some day it might save your life...literally!


I have read parts of it in the original form. It is not easy to read and you need a family member or friend who is an attorney to help understand what it is saying. And 1/3 of it blatantly has nothing to do with health care.

Did you get your copy from the government printing office? I know of nothing in it which would literally "save your life" If you don't mind please be specific. I read about 460 pages of it and don't recall anything which would literally save my life. Quite the contrary.

I'm anxious for your reply.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > What is wrong with you?
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I must be stupid or blind, because I don't get it!!!!
Can u explain in words what the symbols mean or symbolize?
Thanks


RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > "Greater good is a communist term.
> ...


Bad for me! [/quote]

Why is a greater good bad for you?


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > "Greater good is a communist term.
> ...


You Decide[/quote]

I can't see anything wrong with good.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


Why is a greater good bad for you?[/quote]

Because we are a country that bases it's rights as being granted to the individual and not a collective.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, yes, yes. Obama is leading us into socialism. I hope I will be dead before it gets very bad. It is the youth of today who must face what he has done.


Just exactly what is Socialism? Do you realize we have had socialistic programs for decades? Do you not llike our infrastructure, or SS or Medicare? If you are elegible for either do you cash your check or refuse Medicare?


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.


momeee said:


> I must be stupid or blind, because I don't get it!!!!
> Can u explain in words what the symbols mean or symbolize?
> Thanks
> 
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Sarah Jo said:


> Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.
> 
> THE BEST E-MAIL I HAVE READ ABOUT THE ELECTION.
> Don't know who this Pastor is but he hit the nail on the head. As for me, he straightened me out as I was so disappointed at the direction our country has taken since Obama has became president.
> ...


I think he is just Hateful, and I'm glad he is ot my pastor


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

I live in Ma where Universal healthcare was passed. My premiums have done nothing but go up even though we were promised that they would go down because there are more people paying into the system. What a crock. The rest of the country wouldnt listen to us when we said they are lying about affordable healthcare.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

What I mean by white side and black side has nothing to do with race. It has to do with taking care of people instead of people going to work (I know there are people out there who are exceptions). However, there are tons of people on the "dole" - white and black - that are taking, taking, taking. Obama fosters this idea of being taken care of.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Rocky 1991 - I couldn't agree with you more. Furthermore, churches have a tax free status which can be lost if the minister is outwardly involved in politics. This isn't usually followed up on, but it exists. The reason, in part, is because ministers are seen to have more than average influence on members of their congregation when they speak from the pulpit.


rocky1991 said:


> Sarah Jo said:
> 
> 
> > Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.
> ...


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Where did this come from. They should not have disability. Is this a new thing?
> ...


I also know of a couple of people who claimed mental illness and bragged. They were put into a mental institution where they now have to undergo treatment and then go through a process of proving they are mentally fit enough to go back into society. That process, among other thigs, requires them to be signed off by three independant doctors.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Because we are a country that bases it's rights as being granted to the individual and not a collective.[/quote]

That says nothing about what's wrong with good ...

And it should be '"its" if you mean the possessive.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

Sarah Jo said:


> Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.
> 
> THE BEST E-MAIL I HAVE READ ABOUT THE ELECTION.
> Don't know who this Pastor is but he hit the nail on the head. As for me, he straightened me out as I was so disappointed at the direction our country has taken since Obama has became president.
> ...


Thank you for posting this! Nice reminder of what's really important and how God is still in control!!!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> Sarah Jo said:
> 
> 
> > Well I was catching up on my reading up to page 41. Interesting thoughts. When I returned to my e-mail this was there. I thought it appropriate but that is my opinion. Since all or most of the comments are opinion here goes.
> ...


If you believe


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.
> 
> 
> momeee said:
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Anyone out there recognize this???
Some of you ought to read it before you talk about "greater good" being communistic. What do you think is the meaning of "to promote the general welfare?" Yes, we can disagree about how we go about doing this, but don't lose sight of the purpose of government. I'm sick of people talking about "rugged individualism" and promoting Ayn Randianism. What does it really mean to be a citizen of these United States? We have arrived at the "me, me, me" generation and I'm not talking about the people who need help from the government for one reason or another. 


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Anyone out there recognize this???
> Some of you ought to read it before you talk about "greater good" being communistic. What do you think is the meaning of "to promote the general welfare?" Yes, we can disagree about how we go about doing this, but don't lose sight of the purpose of government. I'm sick of people talking about "rugged individualism" and promoting Ayn Randianism. What does it really mean to be a citizen of these United States? We have arrived at the "me, me, me" generation and I'm not talking about the people who need help from the government for one reason or another.
> 
> What a thoughtful post, thank you.
> We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

You are right, alcameron. If we carried this logic to its conclusion, we would have no paved roads, no sidewalks, no garbage pickup, no electrical service...... we have to recognize that we are all in this together, and that the choice, when one of us falls, is either to trample that person underfoot, or give them a hand to get standing again. Our pioneer forebearers knew that helping someone raise a barn was pretty good insurance that when they needed help, it would be there.


alcameron said:


> Anyone out there recognize this???
> Some of you ought to read it before you talk about "greater good" being communistic. What do you think is the meaning of "to promote the general welfare?" Yes, we can disagree about how we go about doing this, but don't lose sight of the purpose of government. I'm sick of people talking about "rugged individualism" and promoting Ayn Randianism. What does it really mean to be a citizen of these United States? We have arrived at the "me, me, me" generation and I'm not talking about the people who need help from the government for one reason or another.
> 
> We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> You are right, alcameron. If we carried this logic to its conclusion, we would have no paved roads, no sidewalks, no garbage pickup, no electrical service...... we have to recognize that we are all in this together, and that the choice, when one of us falls, is either to trample that person underfoot, or give them a hand to get standing again. Our pioneer forebearers knew that helping someone raise a barn was pretty good insurance that when they needed help, it would be there.
> 
> 
> alcameron said:
> ...


Please go back in history and really look at who built what and who did it with out goverment help. It is just as what Obama said goverment made the company's not true. If goverment had, why isn't the goverment ranning them????


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Please go back in history and really look at who built what and who did it with out goverment help. It is just as what Obama said goverment made the company's not true. If goverment had, why isn't the goverment ranning them????


I know we use different forms of English but I can't understand the above, can anyone translate, please?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Please go back in history and really look at who built what and who did it with out goverment help. It is just as what Obama said goverment made the company's not true. If goverment had, why isn't the goverment ranning them????
> ...


Meant to be said that not all was built by goverments, people actual did more than some give them credit for.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Anyone out there recognize this???
> Some of you ought to read it before you talk about "greater good" being communistic. What do you think is the meaning of "to promote the general welfare?" Yes, we can disagree about how we go about doing this, but don't lose sight of the purpose of government. I'm sick of people talking about "rugged individualism" and promoting Ayn Randianism. What does it really mean to be a citizen of these United States? We have arrived at the "me, me, me" generation and I'm not talking about the people who need help from the government for one reason or another.
> 
> We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Well said!!!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone out there recognize this???
> ...


The me, me people are the ones that take from the taxpayers without any exchange of that money for services. In the preamble that you included notice how we are to "promote" the general welfare; not "provide".

The definitions of promote are: 
1.Further the progress of (something, esp. a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
2.Give publicity to (a product, organization, or venture) so as to increase sales or public awareness.

The definitions of provide are:
1.Make available for use; supply.
2.Equip or supply someone with (something useful or necessary): "we were provided with a map".

The two words are not synonymous.

The roads and other infrastructure are paid for by everyone as they benefit everyone and promote commerce. When we pay money to the government so they can give it to some other person for doing absolutely nothing how do I benefit from that?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I already know the definition of "promote" and "provide." You're simply using semantics to avoid the true meaning of this document. Please explain how the Paul Ryan budget did anything to promote the general welfare. Actually, please tell me how any of the current republican views promote anything except themselves and their wealthy friends. Going back in time, I used to see republican presidents and leaders who actually believed in promoting the general welfare. They're long gone. 
And now I return to my coffee and newspaper, which is a little more edifying than some of the posts on this forum---including the hate-filled post supposedly written by a pastor. With pastors like that, more people will become atheists. And his church should be taxed to the hilt!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

That wasn't my question.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Why do you need to benefit directly for helping people who have no other resources, for a lot of very good reasons? Not everyone on welfare is a lazy, good-for-nothing. Do people take advantage? You bet. But banks take advantage of us, too. Insurance companies fight like crazy to avoid paying on policies that folks have paid into for years. I am involved with helping a family where the mother is out of the picture and there are eight grandchildren being cared for by a grandmother. They get welfare. The oldest is also now in college, getting As and Bs, and I would guess the help of a group of people, as well as the welfare checks that helped feed her, has been an enormous encouragement to her success. Should we stop assisting the grandmother, either as a small group, or as a government, and let the children starve? If each of us contributes a little, we can help people who truly need it.


thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I already know the definition of "promote" and "provide." You're simply using semantics to avoid the true meaning of this document. Please explain how the Paul Ryan budget did anything to promote the general welfare. Actually, please tell me how any of the current republican views promote anything except themselves and their wealthy friends. Going back in time, I used to see republican presidents and leaders who actually believed in promoting the general welfare. They're long gone.
> And now I return to my coffee and newspaper, which is a little more edifying than some of the posts on this forum---including the hate-filled post supposedly written by a pastor. With pastors like that, more people will become atheists. And his church should be taxed to the hilt!


Interesting how you will quote our countries constitution which stands for freedom of speech and yet a pastor who exercises his freedom of speech you criticize so quickly. Kind of a double standard there, huh?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

As long as his church doesn't pay taxes, it isn't a double standard. That is the law.


knitnsew said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I already know the definition of "promote" and "provide." You're simply using semantics to avoid the true meaning of this document. Please explain how the Paul Ryan budget did anything to promote the general welfare. Actually, please tell me how any of the current republican views promote anything except themselves and their wealthy friends. Going back in time, I used to see republican presidents and leaders who actually believed in promoting the general welfare. They're long gone.
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


Why is a greater good bad for you?[/quote]

I meant for my opinion. For me and my opinion.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I already know the definition of "promote" and "provide." You're simply using semantics to avoid the true meaning of this document. Please explain how the Paul Ryan budget did anything to promote the general welfare. Actually, please tell me how any of the current republican views promote anything except themselves and their wealthy friends. Going back in time, I used to see republican presidents and leaders who actually believed in promoting the general welfare. They're long gone.
> ...


Someone who preaches hate doesn't deserve to be a pastor. He is less Christian than an atheist. He can exercise his freedom of speech, but he can't do it under the tax-exempt status as a church.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Tax a church so the goverment can waste more? Maybe do some more stupid stuff with the leftover green things from Al Gore . What a creep! Thank God he wasn't President. He showed his true colors. Not the media is showing him who is boss. Ha


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.


Thank you, Lukelucy. That's (note correct grammatical use) my point regarding the difference between provide and promote.

What is lost on many liberals is that we know, full well, that there are those whose circumstances necessitate assistance from others. My biggest issue is with those that decide who needs the help. Why am I paying for cell phones, computers, internet access, and other things that many of us are unable to afford ourselves? The line between needs and wants have been blurred.

We are not the evil incarnate that you try to paint us to be.


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## Oldhenwife (Nov 4, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.


Who judges?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I think you are making a mistake about me painting you as evil. I agree with what you just wrote. The line is blurred. I have met a lot of "freeloaders". I can appreciate helping people who need it. I just resent helping people who take advantage.

Please tell me how we disagree?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


PLease show me where is this mans message where he even or said the message of hate. I have to love the left it not to their liking will use some words or word to say that is totally off the wall. Yet when they may say the samething the right is suppose to except their words as truth, and never reply back.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


I totally agree that a pastor should not preach hate. However, if you read the post it was WRITTEN as an email by a pastor. Nowhere in that post did it say he was standing at a pulpit in a church preaching to his congregation.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > knitnsew said:
> ...


Here we go with name-calling. So much for kindness and consideration. Tax-exempt status for a church of that ilk deserves to be investigated. Or shall I just call that pastor a "creep?"


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > knitnsew said:
> ...


Here we go with semantics again.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Who judges? Well, I have met a lot of able bodied people who do not want to work. They want to have "fun" and take no responsibility. One in particular that I knew wanted to and develop her creativity. So, she was on Welfare, ate top of the line foods and stayed home and did "crafts" while she was supported. Come on! I am the judge of that! It was disgusting. I couldn't get a good nights sleep because she partied all night with her married boyfriend. I was exhausted every day. Their dinner started at midnight. She slept till noon or later and then did "crafts". I can easily be the judge of that!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.
> ...


Who is doing the judging now?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


I think you pretty much just did.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I did no such thing. I'll use your tactics and beg "semantics."


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.
> ...


I agree thumper! I was so annoyed a couple of weeks ago when I was standing in line at a grocery store behind a woman dressed to the hilt, nice clothes, manicured nails, hair cut and styled, and tan ( I live in Michigan, right now you have to pay for a tan). Her baby was in the cart, maybe a year old, dressed in name brand clothing and baby sketchers. She was chatting on her cell phone putting shrimp, steak, and other pricey food items on the belt. I didn't think anything of it until she pulled out a bridge card to pay for it all. 
How is that fair? I am a hard working individual and work 40+ hours a week driving 50 miles round trip every day to support my family of 4. My husband was laid off and we don't qualify for squat. Every month I have to figure out which bill I can not pay so I can pay a different bill. We do not live extravagantly..I buy clothes on clearance and thrift stores..My kids don't wear name brand anything. We grocery shop on a shoe string budget once every 2 weeks. I believe we are probably close to the norm, at least in our area, but why is it that woman could have a bridge card to pay for shrimp and steak, yet dress to the hilt?? How is that fair?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.
> ...


Let me put it this way in this country right now 50 percent are on intitlements. This is not to include S.S. and Medicare. This is the people who do not work, and many deserve that help. But think on this 50 % of this nation is on entitledments. Wow It seems to me that is an awful lot of people who are really sick. I do not know of any other country that has 50% living off goverment. 
Now that means that only 50% of the rest are working and paying taxes to all of these people. Which are raising ever year. The national debt is going up and going up, to the point that we will never have it paid off in 100 years at todays rate that does not include tomorrow. Yet the President wants to raise the taxes more, and have a budget that covers more than the goverment is taking in. 
I hope this make sense to you. I know that your goverment is stable at the moment, but many countries are going under and if we continue we will be joining them soon.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


If it's so great to be on welfare, quit your job and apply for it. There are always people who abuse the system.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Will someone show me the evidence that 50% of the citizens are receiving entitlements? Or direct me to the post that quotes this figure? Also, what is included in "entitlements?"


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Freedom of speech go ahead. What is kindness and consideration got to do with Al Gore? By the way how is your neice doing? Did the weather permit you to go at Christmas to see her? Bless her.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

semantics. 
Word game! Let's see how many times we can use that word in a sentence!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Oh lady i am really sorry for the times you are going throught have heard how bad it has gotten in Michigan with job cuts ect. 
I so agree with you. 
the two I mention a while back who bragged about getting goverment hand outs by claiming Mental illness, and getting Doctor to sign off for them. 
Guess what they purchase last year a new van and camper, went to Disney land in Fla. for vaction must have been wore out from sitting on his behind. By the way this man is in his 30's. He can't watch his daughters because he is on his Wii all day playing games or on the computer so she is in day care ever other day. He also recieves free energy assitance, food which he gets from the food bank which is there just for him don't you know and his welfare too, and lives better then me. But you know he is mental Ill. What a crock.


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## knitnsew (Mar 27, 2012)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


You totally missed my point.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Will someone show me the evidence that 50% of the citizens are receiving entitlements? Or direct me to the post that quotes this figure? Also, what is included in "entitlements?"


Oh I was so waiting for this one. Please do go into goverment " budget records sure you can find on internet, but if not go to your local lilbrary they will help you find that information , infact I wonder to if you could not write your congressman or sentor please do so.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Not a nice thing to say to a lady who is working hard to provide for her family. I think you "owe" her a huge apology!

You say you and DH worked hard to have what you have so this lady deserves for you to be nice to her.

Need me to draw you a picture? I'm good with art!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I can only speak from a personal perspective but I have a higher personal work ethic and a desire to actually work towards something than many of them. Yes, I've made lapses in judgement that have cost me but I've never made them the financial responsibility of others who don't even know me!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

www.ajbulava.wordpress.com/2011/08/ Preamble-The General Welfare is not giving government authority over every area of life.
Constitution-Powers of Congress in Article 1/ The General Welfare encompasses( education, helping the poor,the enviroment, business regulations, etc.)should fall on State or local government, or the power and authority belongs to the people themselves to decide.
the article is written by a history/government teacher and is only 1 page. I am not telling you to read it, just putting it out there. But the bottom line is our founding fathers, by way of The Constitution of The United States, limited the governments power over every area of our lives, they knew the Federal Goverment would tax us, cont. to grow, and be drunk on power, and it has been going down that path for more than 50 years.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Oldhenwife said:
> ...


That says nothing about what's wrong with good ...

And it should be '"its" if you mean the possessive.[/quote]

Now, now, we don't correct grammar as most quotes are written in a hurry so lighten up!

I'll draw you a picture if you need one as I'm good with art!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> knitnsew said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


And what about The Reverend Wright and/or Jesse Jackson? Have you ever heard their tirades? Now they spey hate!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, yes, yes. Obama is leading us into socialism. I hope I will be dead before it gets very bad. It is the youth of today who must face what he has done.
> ...


I do not think SS or Medicare is a socialist program as the individual paid into it via employment for the express purpose that it was to be used for the contributing individual's retirement. The government did not contribute to it, but only used OUR funds without paying interest,replacing it, or securing it, but used it as Madoff used his investor's funds illegally and for his own benefit. The only difference is Madoff is in jail and no one from the government is...
Have you noticed, your Social Security check is now referred to as a"Federal Benefit Payment"?
Everyone who gets a SS or Medicare payment would benefit from this info.

The government is now referring to our Social Security checks as a "Federal Benefit Payment." This isn't a benefit - its earned income! Not only did we all contribute to Social Security but our employers did too.

It totaled 15% of our income before taxes. If you averaged $30K per year over your working life, that's close to $180,000 invested in Social Security. If you calculate the future value of your monthly investment in social security ($375/month, including both your and your employer's contributions) at a meager 1% interest rate
compounded monthly, after 40 years of working you'd have more than $1.3+ million dollars saved!

This is your personal investment.

Upon retirement, if you took out only 3% per year, you'd receive $39,318 per year, or $3,277 per month. That's almost three times more than today's average Social Security benefit of $1,230 per month, according to the Social Security Administration (Google it - it's a fact).

And your retirement fund would last more than 33 years (until you're 98 if you retire at age 65)! I can only imagine how much better most average-income people could live in retirement if our government had just invested our money in low-risk interest-earning accounts.

Instead, the folks in Washington pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madoff ever did. They took our money and used it elsewhere. They "forgot" that it was OUR money they were taking. They didn't have a referendum to ask us if we wanted to lend the money to them.

And they didn't pay interest on the debt they assumed. And recently, they've told us that the money won't support us for very much longer. But is it our fault they misused our investments?

And now, to add insult to injury, they're calling it a "benefit," as if we never worked to earn every penny of it. Just because they "borrowed" the money, doesn't mean that our investments were a charity! Every so often you get a missive from Washington that these , our, benefits will be cut!!

We have earned our right to Social Security and Medicare. Demand that our legislators bring some sense into our government - Find a way to keep Social Security and Medicare going, for the sake of that 92% of our population who need it, paid into it and should be considered it's 'owners'.

Then call it what it is: Our Earned Retirement Income.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Oh, I'm naive, I guess. thanks. Not interested in the translation now.


pardoquilts said:


> I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.
> 
> 
> momeee said:
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find that I am distressed by the opinions expressed in this thread. Bye, bye.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> I find that I am distressed by the opinions expressed in this thread. Bye, bye.


Oh, please stay with us I'll draw you more pictures! Lighten up lady I'll make a pot of coffee!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Right! and when the Preamble to the Constitution states" promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity", it doesn't indicate that all are guaranteed posterity, just the right to work towards equal rights and opportunities for all. It took a few hundred years to get there, but it is not a Socialist or Communist Manifesto.



theyarnlady said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Oldhenwife said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.
> ...


The government has criteria. This is another example of the government not doing its' job or following the guidelines.

This is also seen with gun ownership. Some in our government want to make more laws. And some say follow the laws in existence. We know that new laws will also fall by the wayside and not be followed.

And that is why those of us who have worked hard for our money and taught our children to also work hard are suspect of throwing any more money into the governments hands for more wasteful spending. It is a FACT that health care could be run on less $$$ at the state level than at the federal who under the Constitution has no jurisdiction except as a tax as Roberts decided. And being closer to the people and address peoples needs more intimately.

Please don't complain of my run on sentence or lack of punctuation.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 - your clarification was spot on. 
Lukelucy, correct also. 

The Constitution has been studied by scholars for eons and often there are varying interpretations...Somewhere in all our treasured documents of the past there is a suggestion that people need to also take personal responsibility for their own 'welfare'. As we property owners, and renters too, contribute to the tax program that funds public school we are contributing to the common good, regardless of the number of children we have, or don't have, or if our children have moved beyond school age, or even if we don't approve of the quality or content of the school's curricula. Education is for the common good. If it isn't good enough for an individual he has the right to explore and secure other options - home-school, private-school with tuition. Again, it is the individual's right. Most recently, there has been an increase in 'Charter' schools, paid for with taxpayer dollars without the same regulations, expectations and evaluations on the Charter school as the public school system...In other places vouchers have been given to be used at the individual's choice of religious school- a questionable practice IMHO.

And pardoquilts, I like your interpretation of a helping hand; I call it a safety net. Some people will always be kind and helpful and even generous; others will only be self-interested. We cannot or should not legislate equality to a specific level. 
No where have I heard that the Constitution, or any Amendments guarantee equality in wealth, property, etc...just equal opportunity. There are those in our current administration who feel it is their right and responsibility to redistribute everything so all are equal.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

knitnsew said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


As I agree with all of the above I must add my 2 cents...YES, there needs to be a safety net. All the extraneous goodies need to be removed from the equation. At 1st, battered women were given discarded/ rehabbed cell phones for emergency calls to 911. Great idea! Somehow it evolved into MULTIPLE free cell phones, free texting ( I don't have that - too expensive). The abuses of the welfare, medicaid, food stamp,etc. programs are legendary and it appears that the fraud squad doesn't exist. If you go to the grocery store on the 1st day of each month your eyes will pop out of your head at the 'food-stamp' gals with their carts filled with food I can't buy, with how well they are dressed, coiffured, made-up and manicured...Also they are usually dragging and yelling at a string of crying and fussing pre-school age children. They live in free or subsidized housing with all the free benefits available, while the absentee hubby(reported as missing) or current boy friend is in and out with out being obligated to contribute. I have first had knowledge of these occurrences through my employment in both MA and VT. Please don't attack me because I know and agree that there are mothers who are doing the best they can and deserve help. My criticism and disdain is for the women who see this as the best way of life for THEMSELVES...they continue to have children and do not take advantage of any educational or job-seeking programs to get them to independence.They always seem to find a boy friend who is working and thus have hidden resources. All this takes benefits from those who truly need and deserve them.
So I respectfully disagree with this administrations increasing the welfare and food stamp benefits to more without attaching limits and requirements along with drug testing.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

What is the quote? You cannot build prosperity by taxing a few...not sure this is accurate, but it is the gist of the problem. Eventually the other 50% won't be able to contribute enough to support the country. ALL sorts of programs will disappear ( think national security, health, infrastructure maintenance...).


theyarnlady said:


> Oldhenwife said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Will someone show me the evidence that 50% of the citizens are receiving entitlements? Or direct me to the post that quotes this figure? Also, what is included in "entitlements?"
> ...


An example of ill informed public who want you to do the info for them. Unfortunately this is the culture we live in. Instead of depending and looking to ourselves for solutions we ask others. These figures are easily available for the inquiring mind. And I also like to go to the original source rather than someone else interpretation. Unfortunately we as a society believe in the NYT, WSJ, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, ABC ( does anyone watch it anymore?), etc. rather than digging in ourselves for the facts.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

What you describe is RAMPANT in this country. (I took it upon myself to leave just the beginning of the posts that I'm replying to so you know to what I'm referring.Hope this is OK. ) I've personally reported abuses but mostly the welfare office it too overburdened to investigate in a complete enough manner to remedy anything.

"What is lost on many liberals is that we know, full well, that there are those whose circumstances necessitate assistance from others. My biggest issue is with those that decide who needs the help. Why am I paying for cell phones...

"I agree thumper! I was so annoyed a couple of weeks ago when I was standing in line at a grocery store behind a woman dressed to the hilt, nice clothes, manicured nails, hair cut and styled, and tan ( I live in Michigan, right now you have to pay for a tan)....
"How is that fair? I am a hard working individual and work 40+ hours a week driving 50 miles round trip every day to support my family of 4. My husband was laid off and we don't qualify for squat. Every month I have to figure out which bill I can not pay...

"Oh lady i am really sorry for the times you are going through have heard how bad it has gotten in Michigan with job cuts ect. I so agree with you. 
the two I mention a while back who bragged about getting goverment hand outs by claiming Mental illness, and getting Doctor to sign off for them. Guess what they purchase last year a new van and camper, went to Disney land in Fla. for vaction must have been wore out from sitting on his behind. By the way this man is in his 30's. He can't watch his daughters because he is on his Wii...[/quote]


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> Oh, I'm naive, I guess. thanks. Not interested in the translation now.
> 
> 
> pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oldhenwife said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > There are a lot of people who need welfare and a lot who DON'T.
> ...


Again, I ask, who is or gets to do the judging now?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Regarding 'who judges?": There are regulations that should be followed. Some need to be changed (IMHO). But...too many have found a myriad of ways to circumvent the regulations and illegally qualify for benefits they are not entitled to...and thus deserving people are harmed...and taxpayers lose.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


You are so right, and would like to add that some do not even live long enough to collect what they have put in. My mom didn't retired at 65 died at 68. Three years, and am sure there are many more. 
As I was wrong about goverment and 50% on intitlements the goverment did add in S.S program but as been said we paid in not goverment. Also a lot of freud going on in that too. People who have not paid a cent into program collecting. S.S. disability, and others.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

momeee said:


> Right! and when the Preamble to the Constitution states" promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity", it doesn't indicate that all are guaranteed posterity, just the right to work towards equal rights and opportunities for all. It took a few hundred years to get there, but it is not a Socialist or Communist Manifesto.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you for explain it to them did not do a good job of it so am glad someone could explain it better. :thumbdown: really put a thumbs up or is the mask changer out there again. Seem someone on here is having fun changing what is posted. :thumbup:  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.


Would you please tell us what Ryan's realistic plan would mean for those Americans who are poor. They would be on their own, fending for themselves without any help. Do you think churches would step up and help, and how could they afford to help, by asking their parishoners to donate more money, food, clothing? How about medical care? Go to the ER, the least effective way to take care of people. Just die in the streets, like third world countries. How would you like to live in the USA where no one cares about our fellow human beings? However much you dislike welfare for the poor and unfortunate, do you like policies that favor corporate welfare?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.
> ...


May I ask have you seen or read Ryan's plan??? If not do suggest you make a point of doing it. You may be surprise to learn some of it, and what it is about.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

wouldn't it seem right that the churches should help ...after all they don't pay taxes.


rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.
> ...


Please give some examples of the "corporate welfare" to which you are referring.

We, here in the USA, care more about our fellow human beings than the rest of the world does. We are the first to respond to natural disaster here and abroad. We send food to impoverished nations daily. What more would you say we can or should do?

I don't dislike to poor. Where have any of us said that we dislike the poor or don't feel that there are those that need help? It's at what point do they need the help and at what level should that help be.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> You are right, alcameron. If we carried this logic to its conclusion, we would have no paved roads, no sidewalks, no garbage pickup, no electrical service...... we have to recognize that we are all in this together, and that the choice, when one of us falls, is either to trample that person underfoot, or give them a hand to get standing again. Our pioneer forebearers knew that helping someone raise a barn was pretty good insurance that when they needed help, it would be there.
> 
> 
> alcameron said:
> ...


As a country, we have come a long way from actually caring about our neighbors. It is unfortunate that this happened.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


You already said he was full of hate. Calling him a creep would be milder, if you need to call people names.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > We, here in the USA, care more about our fellow human beings than the rest of the world does. We are the first to respond to natural disaster here and abroad. We send food to impoverished nations daily. What more would you say we can or should do?
> ...


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## susannahp (Nov 7, 2011)

RU knitting, the difference between the health care is that each province has its own health care system it is not federal but provincial, the woman you were speaking with who was waiting for another surgery on her knee didnt tell you that the sugeons wont do another one until they are completely healed from the first one and that could take up to two years , which of course is common sense but then we old ppl want it done right away without realising what the consequences are , a lot of ppl complain but many do not always say the reason for it to happen but would rather complain about the system ...it is unfortunate that the insurance companies dictate who is to have what actually its sad that anyone should have the power to say who lives or dies and that is in both countries, I have made my living will and if I get cancer again no surgery for me , just let me go in dignity and let me choose the time for that to happen , of course that is another can of worms isnt it?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susannahp said:


> RU knitting, the difference between the health care is that each province has its own health care system it is not federal but provincial, the woman you were speaking with who was waiting for another surgery on her knee didnt tell you that the sugeons wont do another one until they are completely healed from the first one and that could take up to two years , which of course is common sense but then we old ppl want it done right away without realising what the consequences are , a lot of ppl complain but many do not always say the reason for it to happen but would rather complain about the system ...it is unfortunate that the insurance companies dictate who is to have what actually its sad that anyone should have the power to say who lives or dies and that is in both countries, I have made my living will and if I get cancer again no surgery for me , just let me go in dignity and let me choose the time for that to happen , of course that is another can of worms isnt it?


Are the costs for procedures, surgeries, etc., (i.e. drawing blood, knee replacement) the same in each province, or do they differ?

For example, taking a blood sample. This is done the same way regardless of what country you are in. Would the cost be the same in Ontario as in BC or Nova Scotia? The cost would vary in the US, even though the procedure is consistent. Where the health care reform fails as far as I'm concerned is in the actual cost of the care. It wasn't addressed in the bill, just the insurance coverage aspect.

Knee replacement surgery is scheduled in advance, which allows the patient to go the hospital and negotiate a price for the surgery before hand. There is a large difference between what one's insurance will cover and the prices it will pay as compared with negotiating with the hospital for the same services. The patient will come out ahead with the negotiations. Of course, this only applies to known scheduled surgeries. It can also apply to routine procedures like drawing blood, urine tests, etc. Here different labs charge different fees for doing the same test.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > You are right, alcameron. If we carried this logic to its conclusion, we would have no paved roads, no sidewalks, no garbage pickup, no electrical service...... we have to recognize that we are all in this together, and that the choice, when one of us falls, is either to trample that person underfoot, or give them a hand to get standing again. Our pioneer forebearers knew that helping someone raise a barn was pretty good insurance that when they needed help, it would be there.
> ...


I agree with that. One doesn't even know who their neighbors are much less know what their needs are. Heaven forbid that you would ask how they are. Most would tell you it's none of your business. Have you ever walked down your block during the day on a weekday? It's deserted. Nobody's home!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I'm naive, I guess. thanks. Not interested in the translation now.
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

So are we ready now to discuss gun control?? Actually, I'm tired. I think I'll knit awhile.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

This doesn't really answer you question about Ryan's plan...but every day it seems that this administration has something new that negatively affects us. III include the update on Obama's Jobs Council that I found on FaceBook, along with a few quotes - not mine - but what appears to be a pretty universal skepticism that anything will improve: 
"Obama's Jobs Council hadn't met in over a year..."
The so called "Jobs Council" is being left to "expire" by POTUS. one poster happen to believe it died at birth. IMAGINE THAT......still too busy yapping and campaigning, and now blaming the Republicans for his failures.....oh yes .and Fox News, and Limbaugh.....poor guy....Can;t we just give him a pink slip, and let him go....HE ISN'T DOING THE JOB FOR US!!!!!
These people were on payroll ,and what did they accomplish ????? unemployment stayed at 7.8, and above the last 4 years
Let me make one thing clear - obama never had a jobs council! He and some of this thugs met a couple times early on to make it look good to the public. They never had any intention of actually doing anything!
Heard today its not needed any more because no longer have a lack of jobs per the administration, this was reported on radio????
if he'd stay in Washington and work the remainder of his term we wouldn't have to increase the debt ceiling. We'd save a lot of money on his travel expenses.
Another poster said "I never needed no council to fix my job situation. I got off my butt and did whatever it took."
That job council garbage was just preelection rhetoric.
Doesn't matter. They never accomplished anything anyway.
Smoke and mirrors. A distraction so we won't see what is really going on. WATCH carefully.
He's too busy promoting his personal agendas to help those who really need it.
There were more, none positive, just saying...



rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > "Ryan's plan was realistic. You cannot support everyone. His plan is the one that would work the best.
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


How about oil subsidies. tax breaks for corporations, NFL


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> This doesn't really answer you question about Ryan's plan...but every day it seems that this administration has something new that negatively affects us. III include the update on Obama's Jobs Council that I found on FaceBook, along with a few quotes - not mine - but what appears to be a pretty universal skepticism that anything will improve:
> "Obama's Jobs Council hadn't met in over a year..."
> The so called "Jobs Council" is being left to "expire" by POTUS. one poster happen to believe it died at birth. IMAGINE THAT......still too busy yapping and campaigning, and now blaming the Republicans for his failures.....oh yes .and Fox News, and Limbaugh.....poor guy....Can;t we just give him a pink slip, and let him go....HE ISN'T DOING THE JOB FOR US!!!!!
> These people were on payroll ,and what did they accomplish ????? unemployment stayed at 7.8, and above the last 4 years
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Tax breaks are not subsidies. If you want tax reform contact your representative. So, again, I ask what money do they outright receive in the form of welfare?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I think we are trying to avoid the obvious - in cartoons and other writing, the use of a string of symbols is used to indicate profanity. Since we cannot get a reasonable explanation for this comment, we must assume that profanity is what is meant.
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

lukka said:


> www.ajbulava.wordpress.com/2011/08/ Preamble-The General Welfare is not giving government authority over every area of life.
> Constitution-Powers of Congress in Article 1/ The General Welfare encompasses( education, helping the poor,the enviroment, business regulations, etc.)should fall on State or local government, or the power and authority belongs to the people themselves to decide.
> the article is written by a history/government teacher and is only 1 page. I am not telling you to read it, just putting it out there. But the bottom line is our founding fathers, by way of The Constitution of The United States, limited the governments power over every area of our lives, they knew the Federal Goverment would tax us, cont. to grow, and be drunk on power, and it has been going down that path for more than 50 years.


Amen I encourage everyone to get their own copy of The Constitution. I have a 3.5 X 6 inches soft booklet which is 36 pages and a 7 page index for easy use. It is put out by West Publishing. My DH believes that no bill should be put before Congress that is longer than The Constitution and written at the 5th grade level.

If you read the Commerce Clause you will understand that it is the most misrepresented and abused of any other area. It seems to be used as a catch all when no other classification can be found for the craziness of the Senate and House.

In the Dark Ages when I was in HS we actually studied The Constitution in what was called Civics. We also learned in that class what being a good citizen meant.....vote, respect others, be the best you can be......those of you old enough know whereof I speak. It reminds me of "Where Have All The Flowers Gone? Long Time Passing"

Typed but not re-read for grammatical, spelling, punctuation or context.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

momeee said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Momee you are a genius! I like that name. More representative of what it "Should Be"


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

The people who are most adamant about cutting Social Security and Medicare are not members of the Democratic Party. Paul Ryan and his ilk are all in favor of those cuts. It is true that Congress needs to deal with the national debt, but doing it on the backs of those who need the help most doesn't seem right to me. Certainly not a "Christian" thing to do. And, please don't start quoting about "helping those who help themselves." It isn't that simple.


theyarnlady said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> lukka said:
> 
> 
> > www.ajbulava.wordpress.com/2011/08/ Preamble-The General Welfare is not giving government authority over every area of life.
> ...


Yes - and we also learned that education and a free and objective press were essential for a democracy (I know, we're a republic) to thrive. Ah - the good old days.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Our whole society is based on what they the people can get from the government. Our society has "advanced" to the point of entitlement. Entitled, spoiled children and parents (I am not saying everyone for any of this), but there are FAR too many that have this mentality. 

Our government cannot take care of everyone. Obama wants the poor (I believe he identifies with the downtrodden) to have it all. He will give away the ranch. 

For example of today's metality: There is an Easter Egg hunt in our area give by a local restaurant. Families (one especially who arrived in a fancy BMW) showed up for the hunt. The parents let their children hunt AHEAD OF TIME to find out where the eggs were. Everyone saw it. No one else did this. So, their kids got the eggs with prizes inside. Others lost out. Parents had no idea that they did wrong. It makes me sick. One of the prizes was a free hamburger. The outdoor chef cooked it and then in front of the parents threw it on the ground so it could not be eaten. GREAT for him. Those parents are developing children who as adults are the worst of America.


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

48 pages - and still it rages on! Getting a bit touchy though. I think enough is enough. There is never going to be a total agreement on this subject so let it drop.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Do you really beliee that corporations need taxbreaks? The oil companies nee to be susidized? Loopholes need to be closed, money should not be in offshore accounts and not subject to taxes. 
How do you sugget we treat the working poor? Those people who work for minimum wage who can't affor to fee their families or get health insurance. Yew there are deadbeats, but I doubt they are the majority.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Tax breaks can help the company's profits and the end result is expansion and more people hired... That is the bottom line.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> 48 pages - and still it rages on! Getting a bit touchy though. I think enough is enough. There is never going to be a total agreement on this subject so let it drop.


True..............DROPPED


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Our whole society is based on what they the people can get from the government. Our society has "advanced" to the point of entitlement. Entitled, spoiled children and parents (I am not saying everyone for any of this), but there are FAR too many that have this mentality.
> 
> Our government cannot take care of everyone. Obama wants the poor (I believe he identifies with the downtrodden) to have it all. He will give away the ranch.
> 
> For example of today's metality: There is an Easter Egg hunt in our area give by a local restaurant. Families (one especially who arrived in a fancy BMW) showed up for the hunt. The parents let their children hunt AHEAD OF TIME to find out where the eggs were. Everyone saw it. No one else did this. So, their kids got the eggs with prizes inside. Others lost out. Parents had no idea that they did wrong. It makes me sick. One of the prizes was a free hamburger. The outdoor chef cooked it and then in front of the parents threw it on the ground so it could not be eaten. GREAT for him. Those parents are developing children who as adults are the worst of America.


You think it's great that the chef threw the hamburger on the ground in front of the children?? What is HE teaching? Why punish the children? Wouldn't it have been better for those in charge to inform the family that the egg hunt hadn't started yet?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I think it is good the children saw it. Where else are they going to get the idea that something was wrong with their behavior. I am glad he did it. He was very angry. And rightly so.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Tax breaks can help the company's profits and the end result is expansion and more people hired... That is the bottom line.


The result of tax breaks doesn't mean more people are hired. It simply means that the company has more profit.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I think it is good the children saw it. Where else are they going to get the idea that something was wrong with their behavior. I am glad he did it. He was very angry. And rightly so.


Don't get me wrong. I'm sure many would be angry! I just don't think that was the way to handle it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Tax breaks can help the company's profits and the end result is expansion and more people hired... That is the bottom line.


What world do you live in? They are not hiring but their profits are high, where are the jos?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


You didn't answer my question. What subsidies are the corporations receiving? Also, when did the federal tax codes become "loopholes"? They're perfectly legal. Or does your statement just apply to the legal ones you don't like?


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

My doctor told me just yesterday that I have to come every month now (as opposed to every other month the last few years) and that he MUST write all my prescriptions out and they must be taken to the pharmacy...no more faxing or calling or renewing by any other method....he says he just won't be able to keep up having to see his patients every month. So he can either close his practice (which hurts new people) or hire a partner. All this also adds to my costs. But, it is what it is. At least, when we share this (those who want to read it, anyway) we know that we are not alone. God bless us all.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Tax breaks can help the company's profits and the end result is expansion and more people hired... That is the bottom line.
> ...


Many of them are holding on to what money they have because they are unsure what the new politicians have in store for them. Many wanted to make sure they had enough to pay the additional fees that obamacare had in store for them this year and the uncertainty of the economy. Most corporations like to have projections which they then use for future planning.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bravo to him. Do you think a lecture or "advice" to the parents would help. No way. I do no see another solution.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

momeee said:


> Regarding 'who judges?": There are regulations that should be followed. Some need to be changed (IMHO). But...too many have found a myriad of ways to circumvent the regulations and illegally qualify for benefits they are not entitled to...and thus deserving people are harmed...and taxpayers lose.


Does anyone remember ACORN?


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

I was made aware of the fact that an untrained person must now make the decision for a person who needs an ambulance as to if they truly are in danger or if you can just throw them on the back of your Kawasaki and cart them off to emergency. If you make the wrong decision then it can cost them an ambulance fee. Let me see if an 85 yr. old woman is suffering a stroke in my uneducated opinion that is life threatening. Nope it is not. She will be billed for the ambulance. We really need a list of acceptable occurrences so we can go through it to see if we should call an ambulance or a tow truck. I am so confused. :roll:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Is this the result of Obamacare? What a mess.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

She will care when she gets the bill.


Mz Molly said:


> Please please please can we not have politics here? If you are going to post politics could you at least warn us like, nasty topic coming "politics" and those who want to be angry and what ever can watch the rest of us can skip over. thank you. PS I won't be back to see any comments back to me so don't post any ....


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sockyarn said:


> I was made aware of the fact that an untrained person must now make the decision for a person who needs an ambulance as to if they truly are in danger or if you can just throw them on the back of your Kawasaki and cart them off to emergency. If you make the wrong decision then it can cost them an ambulance fee. Let me see if an 85 yr. old woman is suffering a stroke in my uneducated opinion that is life threatening. Nope it is not. She will be billed for the ambulance. We really need a list of acceptable occurrences so we can go through it to see if we should call an ambulance or a tow truck. I am so confused. :roll:


There are fees now for use of the ambulance, needed or not. What is different now?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


I am bowing out of this totally useless conversation. You are absolutely correct about everything. Too bad tthe majority of this country voted for Obama and like his policies and the Repulican voter suppression didn't work. Better luck next time, however if you continue shooting yourselves in the foot, I see no hope. 
Thank Goodness.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

susannahp said:


> RU knitting, the difference between the health care is that each province has its own health care system it is not federal but provincial, the woman you were speaking with who was waiting for another surgery on her knee didnt tell you that the sugeons wont do another one until they are completely healed from the first one and that could take up to two years , which of course is common sense but then we old ppl want it done right away without realising what the consequences are , a lot of ppl complain but many do not always say the reason for it to happen but would rather complain about the system ...it is unfortunate that the insurance companies dictate who is to have what actually its sad that anyone should have the power to say who lives or dies and that is in both countries, I have made my living will and if I get cancer again no surgery for me , just let me go in dignity and let me choose the time for that to happen , of course that is another can of worms isnt it?


I pray you will not have a recurrence of the cancer and have countless moons to see.

Believe me when I say it had nothing to do with medical issues associated with healing and her surgery for that year was minor. I do not recall the specific surgery. She was surprised to learn that my two knees were done within 3 months of each other. And more surprised to hear that I could have had them both done at the same time. I cannot speak to her veracity.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Sorry so sorry, but will not be allow to use guns to shot my foot. As you must of heard that there are to be new laws, as to gun control.
But just to make you happy would it be o.k. if I use a squirt gun. I can clean the 'Left" over muck that has been handed out too.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


I'm guessing that you couldn't come up with any actual subsidies.

So, then...what are you knitting on tonight?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> susannahp said:
> 
> 
> > RU knitting, the difference between the health care is that each province has its own health care system it is not federal but provincial, the woman you were speaking with who was waiting for another surgery on her knee didnt tell you that the sugeons wont do another one until they are completely healed from the first one and that could take up to two years , which of course is common sense but then we old ppl want it done right away without realising what the consequences are , a lot of ppl complain but many do not always say the reason for it to happen but would rather complain about the system ...it is unfortunate that the insurance companies dictate who is to have what actually its sad that anyone should have the power to say who lives or dies and that is in both countries, I have made my living will and if I get cancer again no surgery for me , just let me go in dignity and let me choose the time for that to happen , of course that is another can of worms isnt it?
> ...


What you say is partially true. Most insurance companies have what is known as a fee schedule. This schedule is based on the procedure code and diagnostic code. And if the patient has a co-pay. It is illegal to negotiate the co-pay because the patient has a contract with her or his insurance company. If this is discovered, it is grounds for cancelation of the policy. With regards to medicare there are national payment schedules and are the same for Phoenix, Arizona as they are for Jacksonville, Florida, etc. The only exception is for areas of low Physician to patient ratio and then for incentive purposes the fees are higher. I believe this also is true of Indian reservation but don't quote me on that.

I would encourage everyone to review carefully their hospital bills especially. I was billed for pain meds which I never took because I don't believe in them and find acupuncture and medication more body friendly. After many phone conversations I realized that they had certain protocols for billing of various procedures done in the hospital. Finally had the charges removed. I also refused to have my insurance pay $60 for an aspirin which I never took. And someone even told me not to worry "the insurance will pay for it". I don't buy in to that philosophy. Ultimately I AM paying for it in terms of higher premiums or tax $$.

With regards to drawing blood it would depend on what tests your physician ordered. We have a panel of tests and chose according to the patients dx (ex diabetes, pregnancy, anemia to mention ) which lab studies should be done.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> 48 pages - and still it rages on! Getting a bit touchy though. I think enough is enough. There is never going to be a total agreement on this subject so let it drop.


Chill out and I'll draw you a picture! I'm good at art! We still have freedom of speech last time I looked unless you want to take that away from us.

This is what chat-chat is all about. I don't agree with everyone but they have the right to have their say!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> sockyarn said:
> 
> 
> > I was made aware of the fact that an untrained person must now make the decision for a person who needs an ambulance as to if they truly are in danger or if you can just throw them on the back of your Kawasaki and cart them off to emergency. If you make the wrong decision then it can cost them an ambulance fee. Let me see if an 85 yr. old woman is suffering a stroke in my uneducated opinion that is life threatening. Nope it is not. She will be billed for the ambulance. We really need a list of acceptable occurrences so we can go through it to see if we should call an ambulance or a tow truck. I am so confused. :roll:
> ...


Alcameron, why must you disagree with everything anyone says? I have found you to be a caring person so why all the fussing?

Chill, chill, would you enjoy a hand drawn picture? I will be happy to draw one one for you and put on the coffee pot.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Pardoquilts

Do you have any idea how much $$$ will or perhaps already has been raped from Medicare to help fund Obama Care.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > Courier770- Thanks for your valuable contributions to this thread. I came in very late (41 pages late) into this convo and I was glad to see your comment on page 4ish regarding the term "Obamacare" It's the Affordable Care Act and for those who don't understand it, you should read up on it before you knock it, some day it might save your life...literally!
> ...


Here this is a slightly dumbed down version of what has already been put into place and the things that are to come. Maybe this will help you to understand why The ACA is not the enemy but ignorance and selfishness is.

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/

Enjoy!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > lukka said:
> ...


I too long for those days when the press was truly objective and the schools of Journalism (Columbia, SUNY, Stanford, etc.) taught journalism and how to remove themselves from their own political agendas.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > sockyarn said:
> ...


I didn't disagree with what she said about the ambulance. In my experience (of which there have been enough), fees for the ambulance rides are already charged. I sincerely wanted to know what is different now. I had no idea that I disagreed about anything.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Tax breaks can help the company's profits and the end result is expansion and more people hired... That is the bottom line.
> ...


Rocky1991 Welcome back.


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## martinw (Aug 6, 2011)

Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

sockyarn said:


> She will care when she gets the bill.
> 
> 
> Mz Molly said:
> ...


MzMolly You should stay with it. Much of it is very amusing and giggles are healthy.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Bowing out again? See you soon. Can't stay away can you?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

ZENmama said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > ZENmama said:
> ...


I am well aware of this timeline and it is at best superficial and at worst grossly incomplete in being aware of what lies ahead. Much is not in the timeline and is cause for concern.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

00000$


RUKnitting said:


> Pardoquilts
> 
> Do you have any idea how much $$$ will or perhaps already has been raped from Medicare to help fund Obama Care.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

000$


RUKnitting said:


> Pardoquilts
> 
> Do you have any idea how much $$$ will or perhaps already has been raped from Medicare to help fund Obama Care.


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

martinw said:


> Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Our whole society is based on what they the people can get from the government. Our society has "advanced" to the point of entitlement. Entitled, spoiled children and parents (I am not saying everyone for any of this), but there are FAR too many that have this mentality.
> 
> Our government cannot take care of everyone. Obama wants the poor (I believe he identifies with the downtrodden) to have it all. He will give away the ranch.
> 
> For example of today's metality: There is an Easter Egg hunt in our area give by a local restaurant. Families (one especially who arrived in a fancy BMW) showed up for the hunt. The parents let their children hunt AHEAD OF TIME to find out where the eggs were. Everyone saw it. No one else did this. So, their kids got the eggs with prizes inside. Others lost out. Parents had no idea that they did wrong. It makes me sick. One of the prizes was a free hamburger. The outdoor chef cooked it and then in front of the parents threw it on the ground so it could not be eaten. GREAT for him. Those parents are developing children who as adults are the worst of America.


I've heard of the same thing happening here. Some kids - with "help" got it all, and some poor little ones got nothing. How can adults act that way - purposely let someone else's child be disappointed?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> 48 pages - and still it rages on! Getting a bit touchy though. I think enough is enough. There is never going to be a total agreement on this subject so let it drop.


Lots of luck on that one, knittingdragon. I've tried to say "let's give this a rest" - and so have others - to no avail. Not on this post, but on so many others. Some people just love controversy.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

This is horrible, unacceptable, and unbelievable. Where will this nonsense end? It is another example of the present administration's ability- or attempt- to control OUR lives, while there are so many questionable aspects of gov't. spending, regulations etc. that are questionable if not blatantly illegal,which go unexamined and unanswered. (Just a silly question- are you on Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance?) I suspect regulations apply differently to different insurance programs...or perhaps I'm being paranoid. 


funthreads623 said:


> My doctor told me just yesterday that I have to come every month now (as opposed to every other month the last few years) and that he MUST write all my prescriptions out and they must be taken to the pharmacy...no more faxing or calling or renewing by any other method....he says he just won't be able to keep up having to see his patients every month. So he can either close his practice (which hurts new people) or hire a partner. All this also adds to my costs. But, it is what it is. At least, when we share this (those who want to read it, anyway) we know that we are not alone. God bless us all.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I don't think it is necessarily controversy. Many issues here which are disputed are really educating in that we all need to see and try to understand how others think and feel about the important aspects of our government. Perhaps, if people had been truly better informed prior to both elections, and more involved with their representatives, the outcome might have been better, or less contentious. I truly to be informed, but have learned much on this site, and on this thread. I'd like it to continue...perhaps under a different category - "Politics for Knitters?" As always,, if one is not interested, or finds it disturbing, don't open the thread. That's the wonderful thing about this country- so far- if you don't like something - you don't have to participate.


bonbf3 said:


> knittingdragon said:
> 
> 
> > 48 pages - and still it rages on! Getting a bit touchy though. I think enough is enough. There is never going to be a total agreement on this subject so let it drop.
> ...


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

ZENmama said:


> martinw said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards
> ...


Name calling? Teatards? Again all we hear from the "tolerant" left.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

To RUKnittting: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: for your posts. In the interest of brevity, I'll just leave the thumbs up symbol and say hang in; your posts are informative and enlightening, all the while being pertinent and respectful.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Carol, you are correct. But those ignorant responses don't event deserve a reply. Ignore them - as most of the contributors do.


CarolfromTX said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > martinw said:
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

We are all in the same boat. I have made alot of friends (both sides) talking about the problems we have here in the US.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Hi to all of you who are still trying to convince each other your side is the right side. 
I found a wise man who has come up with a solution that will solve all our countries problems:

THIS CABLE GUY HUMOR IS FUNNY... BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S TRUE!
(THE MAN'S A GENIUS!!!)

Everyone concentrates on the problems we're having in Our Country lately: Illegal immigration, hurricane recovery, alligators attacking people in Florida ... Not me -- I concentrate on solutions for the problems -- it's a win-win situation. Dig a moat the length of the Mexican border. Send the dirt to New Orleans to raise the level of the levees. Put the Florida alligators in the moat along the Mexican border.
Any other problems you would like for me to solve today?
Think about this:
1. Cows
2. The Constitution
3. The Ten Commandments
COWS:
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that during the mad cow epidemic our government could track a single cow, born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in the state of Washington? And, they tracked her calves to their stalls. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our country. Maybe we should give each of them a cow.
THE CONSTITUTION:
They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq . Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it has worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.
THE 10 COMMANDMENTS:
The real reason that we can't have the Ten Commandments posted in a courthouse is this: you cannot post 'Thou Shalt Not Steal' 'Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery' and 'Thou Shall Not Lie' in a building full of lawyers, judges and politicians, it creates a hostile work environment.
Also, think about this..... if you don't want to forward this for fear of offending someone -- YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!
GET 'ER DONE

(I'll check back again sometime to see how you all are doing) :lol:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

martinw said:


> Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards


What intelligents , and explaining why you believe as you do. This from a person who claims to be a Librarian.

At least some on here who belong to the left have no fear of voicing their opinions.

You do so remind me of another person who use to be on here, and would do the samething. Name calling, and wanting everone to fact check.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

martinw said:


> Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards


Please explain what a teatard is. But I am guessing that it is a person that has a different view point than yours, and the only way to attempt to communicate with them is by cruel name calling.

Oh but the good news is that Obama had to cave on the abortion pill and other components of HSA. Guess those 50 lawsuits would have taken up too much of Holder's time, and been too big of an embarrassment. Can't wait to hear what Cardinal Dollan's response.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> martinw said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards
> ...


My interpretation was this person's attempt at cleverness. Calling someone a "teatard" was their way of saying that anyone who is a fiscal conservative is mentally or intellectually retarded.

I just ignored it.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

One thing I've noticed is that name callers, whether they are children or adults, are frustrated and usually resort to name calling because they have nothing else to say and figure if they hurt or embarrass their target the target will go away or be silent. 


off2knit said:


> martinw said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > susannahp said:
> ...


Thanks for replying to my post. It was meant for Susannahp. Being a Canadian , I was asking Susannahp if the costs across Canada were the same for the same operations/procedures. She mentioned that each province has their own health care system and wondered if the prices were the same in each province. Probably not.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

VERY FUNNY - AND CUTE. THANKS FOR THE GIGGLE AND SOLUTION TO MANY PRESSING PROBLEMS.(oops, darn cap lock gets me every time).


Nussa said:


> Hi to all of you who are still trying to convince each other your side is the right side.
> I found a wise man who has come up with a solution that will solve all our countries problems:
> 
> THIS CABLE GUY HUMOR IS FUNNY... BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S TRUE!
> ...


 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> martinw said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, I'm surprised so many knitters are Teatards
> ...


Abortion pill?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > martinw said:
> ...


RU486 or what might be commonly known as the 'morning after pill'. I'm surprised you haven't heard about it before now.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > martinw said:
> ...


Thumper, you rock! I must return to the art work, but am confused on how to draw a teatard! Could someone please give me some clues?

Maybe it is [$$&@987+9]. {+}??? See I'm having trouble drawing it! Help!!!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Hi to all of you who are still trying to convince each other your side is the right side.
> I found a wise man who has come up with a solution that will solve all our countries problems:
> 
> THIS CABLE GUY HUMOR IS FUNNY... BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S TRUE!
> ...


This would solve those problems! Well done Cable Guy. I don't believe he belongs to the left or right side, he would just solve the problems!

Get 'er done!


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## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

Perhaps, if people had been truly better informed prior to both elections, and more involved with their representatives, the outcome might have been better, or less contentious. 

The only problem is that when anyone in any country is campaigning for government they promise all these nice things but when they finally get in things are so very different and no so clear-cut. Some things that people might want to do are totally unrealistic and others that are realistic are way out of the question because of unforseen boundaries.

In Queensland at present we are in the middle of one of the biggest and most expensive floods ever - worse than 2010. Our Premier is promising to "floodproof Queensland". I say good luck to him. But he won't get anywhere. There are too many councils out there willing to accept money under the counter from developers who want to build in a particular area - whether it be residential or commercial. We have hundreds of businesses and homes built in known flood prone areas. When the floods come these people are the first to whinge. Well, helloooo! We also have insurance companies who won't insure properties. In 2010 there was one guy right on the river who couldn't get his business insured - he was a fisheries guy who cleaned and gutted fish for market. Because of the nature of his business he needed to be right on the waterfront, but couldn't get insurance because the insurance company said he was in an area that was prone to flooding. 
People build their homes on river banks and creek banks and at the bottom of hills. Heavy rains come, the creeks and rivers flood and the hill behind them slides into their living room. Will the insurance company pay out (if they are insured)? Most of the time NO!!! They are happy to take moeny from these people and that causes a lot of heartache. We don't have fllod cover with our inusrance company - but then we don't need it because we live on the top of a hill. Also when the floods happened in 2010 all the insurance companies put their premiums up - for EVERYONE. Our insurance company couldn't follow suit because they don't cover for floods.
We were so happy about that.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> Perhaps, if people had been truly better informed prior to both elections, and more involved with their representatives, the outcome might have been better, or less contentious.
> 
> The only problem is that when anyone in any country is campaigning for government they promise all these nice things but when they finally get in things are so very different and no so clear-cut. Some things that people might want to do are totally unrealistic and others that are realistic are way out of the question because of unforseen boundaries.
> 
> ...


Here I'd rather hear what a politician won't do. It's when they 'do' is when we, the people who are saddled with the bill, are well and truly screwed.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Every day I look at the listings of job that are being cut and I think about the Jobs COncil that was just disbanded...
Latest job cut headlines from DailyJobCuts.com

Smith & Nephew Orthopedics - 100 [Link]
Sears ( Canada ) - 700 [Link]
ecomom's Las Vegas - 19 [Link]
UBS ( Canadian Unit ) - 20 [Link]
LPL Financial LLC - Job Cuts Coming? [Link]
Alps Electric ( International ) - 3,000 [Link]
The Ferndale Schools MI - 3 [Link]
Cardinal Health Inc. - 180 [Link]
Update: Amgen Inc - up to 157 [Link]
Update: Ottawa Hospital - 290 [Link]

Source: DailyJobCuts.com
Read more at http://www.fiscalconservatives.com/#Ljiw9VjYYoMxcLrC.99

Wednesday we learned that the GDP declined and today we learned the unemployment rate increased to 7.9%. Certainly not the economic recovery Obama promised.


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## Dakota Sun (May 25, 2011)

Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry to hear jobs are so hard to come by out your way, momee. Right now, North Dakota has the lowest unemployment rate in the United States. We stand at 3.2%. The reason for that is the oil boom in the north western part of the state. In my city, which is 125.1 miles to the S.W. of the oil boom, there are job openings in nearly every business. The problem lays with finding housing. We had a major flood here in 2011, which displaced thousands, with many never being able to rebuild, and we have hundreds if not thousands of oil riggers everywhere. You would have to work out on the rigs to make enough money to live here. So I guess it's really a catch 22.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


Does not cause an abortion, prevents pregnancy


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Dakota Sun said:


> Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.


If a person makes $600 a month he gets Medicaid. You do have freedom of choice if you don't want to pay for insurance don,t, you might have to pay a penalty , but that is your choice. Most western countries already have universal insurance, just what don't you like?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Dakota Sun said:


> Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.


If a person makes $600 a month he gets Medicaid. You do have freedom of choice if you don't want to pay for insurance don,t, you might have to pay a penalty , but that is your choice. Most western countries already have universal insurance, just what don't you like?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


And your point is?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Dakota Sun said:
> 
> 
> > Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.
> ...


Sorry, what are you trying to say or ask?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Not abortion


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Dakota Sun said:


> Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.


Well, people were soooo Happy to re-elect him now a lot of people are wondering how the insurance will be paid and if poor people cannot pay then where will those dollars come from--we the taxpayers will pay more in taxes to pay the bill again!

Woooo pigs sueeey! Now jump on that!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Dakota Sun said:
> ...


What don't you like about universal healthcare?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> This is horrible, unacceptable, and unbelievable. Where will this nonsense end? It is another example of the present administration's ability- or attempt- to control OUR lives, while there are so many questionable aspects of gov't. spending, regulations etc. that are questionable if not blatantly illegal,which go unexamined and unanswered. (Just a silly question- are you on Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance?) I suspect regulations apply differently to different insurance programs...or perhaps I'm being paranoid.
> 
> 
> funthreads623 said:
> ...


I know of a doctor who dropped her medicare patients, accepts ONLY patients who are in the Emory Hospital family, and accepts only one kind of insurance. One of her patients didn't even get a letter - just a "goodbye" when she called for an appt.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > martinw said:
> ...


I guess martinw just couldn't come up with anything better than that. Fortunately, most of us don't cry any more when being called names.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Quite a problem has been created for the middle class, hasn't it? Depending where one get his info on this administration's goals regarding health care, and the increasing reports of exactly how much Obamacare will cost, there are more and more informed citizens who feel that this was a deliberate maneuver to force the Americans into a 'one payer' system. I'm not sure what that exactly means, but I know it won't be what most want. Remember Pelosi's instruction that Congress had to vote obamacare in, then the thousands of pages could be read to find out what it contained ? In any event the citizens were lied to by Obama from the start...he knew it wouldn't save citizens money ( weren't we told $2000.per family?) when most have claimed a significant increase in their premiums already. I cannot imagine how the average person is going to be able to maintain his current standard of living, unless they get gov't assistance. So it does appear that we are on the slippery slope of Socialism or at least socialistic medicine.


Dakota Sun said:


> Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > ZENmama said:
> ...


Is that Ingried (Martinw)????? Or maybe ConanK????


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Sorry to hear jobs are so hard to come by out your way, momee. Right now, North Dakota has the lowest unemployment rate in the United States. We stand at 3.2%. The reason for that is the oil boom in the north western part of the state. In my city, which is 125.1 miles to the S.W. of the oil boom, there are job openings in nearly every business. The problem lays with finding housing. We had a major flood here in 2011, which displaced thousands, with many never being able to rebuild, and we have hundreds if not thousands of oil riggers everywhere. You would have to work out on the rigs to make enough money to live here. So I guess it's really a catch 22.


Wow, that is amazing. There is no information here about the jobs in ND. In the northeast the job market is very tough. Even in some smaller businesses who might think of hiring, they aren't ,because they can't afford the additional gov't imposed fees. In Vt, the taxes are extremely high and have driven many business out, or bankrupted them, and the climate isn't welcoming to new businesses. Very high numbers of residents rely on gov' t. assistance. You are so right...a catch 22 .


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

In the northeast we are beginning to hear of doctors who are leaving their practices, or limiting the insurance providers they will accept. Some patients have chosen to pay thousands privately to be part of a "Boutique" practice...again, just one more way to disenfranchise some and illuminate class/financial distinctions...


bonbf3 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > This is horrible, unacceptable, and unbelievable. Where will this nonsense end? It is another example of the present administration's ability- or attempt- to control OUR lives, while there are so many questionable aspects of gov't. spending, regulations etc. that are questionable if not blatantly illegal,which go unexamined and unanswered. (Just a silly question- are you on Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance?) I suspect regulations apply differently to different insurance programs...or perhaps I'm being paranoid.
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I cannot believe that anything run by the government is superior. Talk about grinding wheels.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Dakota Sun said:
> 
> 
> > Ladies and gentlemen: What has happen to Freedom of choice? Obama health care is forcing people to get insurance and if they don't get it then they will have to pay a $1000.00 penalty . Can some one tell me how a person on an income of $600.00 a month is going to be able to pay for health insurance and all the other expense they have like rent , car insurance, property taxes, if they own a place, property insurance, heat, lights, phone bills, food, medicine and etc. the list goes on and on. I am opposed to socialised medicine because that is taking away my freedom of choice.
> ...


Actually we are paying for the poor peoples insurance now. Using the Emergency Room as your doctor is the most expensive wy to get health care. Hospitals can not turn people away until they are stailized, which means lots of money. That money is offset by higher prices that we all pay for our health insurance, An emergency patient who comes into the hospital due to a horrific auto accident can cost the hospital hundreds of thousands of dollars in critical care within the first few hours. We all get to pay for that. The more people who have insurance,the bigger the pool of money is to pay for high hospital costs.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> Quite a problem has been created for the middle class, hasn't it? Depending where one get his info on this administration's goals regarding health care, and the increasing reports of exactly how much Obamacare will cost, there are more and more informed citizens who feel that this was a deliberate maneuver to force the Americans into a 'one payer' system. I'm not sure what that exactly means, but I know it won't be what most want. Remember Pelosi's instruction that Congress had to vote obamacare in, then the thousands of pages could be read to find out what it contained ? In any event the citizens were lied to by Obama from the start...he knew it wouldn't save citizens money ( weren't we told $2000.per family?) when most have claimed a significant increase in their premiums already. I cannot imagine how the average person is going to be able to maintain his current standard of living, unless they get gov't assistance. So it does appear that we are on the slippery slope of Socialism or at least socialistic medicine.
> 
> 
> Dakota Sun said:
> ...


The cost of obamacare is much higher than expected. A woman called the Herman Cain show (Atlanta) yesterday and said she had lost her insurance. She wanted to get obamacare, and they told her that she had to be without insurance for 6 months. Then they told her that obamacare would cost $700 a month. What????!!!
Also, yesterday, I read that the IRS is assuming (why "assuming" I don't know) that the cheapest type of obama care (yes, they have bronze, gold, and platinum - sounds like private insurance, doesn't it?) will cost a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) $20,000 a year. How can that be correct? Fine for having no insurance will be $2400. Guess what people will do. I can hardly believe this is correct.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > CarolfromTX said:
> ...


Don't know.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?


I definitely agree with you. My husband is a surgeon, fought "socialized" medicine for years. Howeer Medicare became his favorite insurance to deal with. Private insurance copanies gave him a hell of a tie to deal with, every submission was a fight. We really need a single payer system.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Quite a problem has been created for the middle class, hasn't it? Depending where one get his info on this administration's goals regarding health care, and the increasing reports of exactly how much Obamacare will cost, there are more and more informed citizens who feel that this was a deliberate maneuver to force the Americans into a 'one payer' system. I'm not sure what that exactly means, but I know it won't be what most want. Remember Pelosi's instruction that Congress had to vote obamacare in, then the thousands of pages could be read to find out what it contained ? In any event the citizens were lied to by Obama from the start...he knew it wouldn't save citizens money ( weren't we told $2000.per family?) when most have claimed a significant increase in their premiums already. I cannot imagine how the average person is going to be able to maintain his current standard of living, unless they get gov't assistance. So it does appear that we are on the slippery slope of Socialism or at least socialistic medicine.
> ...


The Afforable Care Act has yet to go into effect............there is no plan to buy yet.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.


LOL!! I work in healthcare and, in all the years I've been doing contracting/consulting and the hundreds of doctors I've met and talked to I've NEVER heard ONE that has had good things to say about Medicare. More and more are dropping government funded healthcare coverages because they don't pay enough. It's the private insurance and the self-pay patients that offset the crappy reimbursement of the government programs.

More physicians are dropping certain risky parts of their practices, such as obstetrics, so they can drop their malpractice coverage and reduce their malpractice insurance cost. What good is having a procedure covered if you can't find a doctor who does it?

What source did your statistics come from?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?
> ...


Is your husband in private or group practice? If he's had such a difficult time with adjudication perhaps it's a coding or supporting documentation issue. With most companies having to pay penalties for slow payments I find your statement odd.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?


What good is being covered if it doesn't cover a procedure or reimburse enough to keep a practice doors open?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Doesn't any one find it amusing, except for Lady who wants to use the words as it was called.

Afforable for whom?? the poor and the goverment body. If you do not have insurance you will be fined.

Care, who ????? Just seems to be the ones who will not have to pay into it. Does not Goverment body seem to really not care as they have their own free insurance, and other benifits supplied by taxes payers.

Care?? Where?? the goverment body doesn't care.

Act who are the ones who acted on this??

Here is the truth as I see it.
Afforable????
Not to the people who will have to pay for it,such as all who have jobs, small business, companies who do not have the rights to disagree with it, ect.

Care??? Sure there are some who care, but it will not be the person's who the goverment is in their pockets, after all is said and done.

Act??? We can not act on it as our goverment made it law, unless we want to be fined.

So how is this different from private insurance??

All they would of had to do is put regulations on private insurance industries, as they did on wall street, and banks???
:x :x :x


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


We learned on a previous topic thread that some things have gone into effect. For example, if your bill has AHC (I think those are the initials) at the bottom - and you had no co-pay for the first time - that's Affordable Health Care in effect. A woman who does the money for a doctor's office told us on KP.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.
> ...


Thumper5316 - good news - I hope he's right. I can judge only by the post office. Wait - I have SS and Medicare, and they were very efficient when we went to talk to them.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Doesn't any one find it amusing, except for Lady who wants to use the words as it was called.
> 
> Afforable for whom?? the poor and the goverment body. If you do not have insurance you will be fined.
> 
> ...


Amen, Yarnie! The middle class (working class) will pay the bill again and again, while the poor gets the free insurance. Also, those who are illegally in this country gets it all and we again get the bill!

People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.

It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English!


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.

It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English![/quote]

Oh, for heaven's sake! Nobody can vote unless they are a citizen! And, I would bet they know more actual information about our government than most of us, since they had to take a course in the constitution and government before they could become citizens. Is it possible that one of your ancestors spoke German or Polish or Russian or Sioux? We didn't just sprout here - every one of us came here from somewhere else. The stereotypes you put forth are identical to the ones talked about when the waves of immigration began at the turn of the century. Does the phrase "Irish need not apply" sound familiar? That was a common sign in the early part of the last century. Your fear and paranoia is sad.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


I'm confused. You hope who is right about what? What does the post office have to do with this? Who was efficient when you talked to them?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> 
> It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English!


Oh, for heaven's sake! Nobody can vote unless they are a citizen! And, I would bet they know more actual information about our government than most of us, since they had to take a course in the constitution and government before they could become citizens. Is it possible that one of your ancestors spoke German or Polish or Russian or Sioux? We didn't just sprout here - every one of us came here from somewhere else. The stereotypes you put forth are identical to the ones talked about when the waves of immigration began at the turn of the century. Does the phrase "Irish need not apply" sound familiar? That was a common sign in the early part of the last century. Your fear and paranoia is sad.[/quote]

No one can vote that is too funny , all one needs is a drivers license, and to not tell truth. Yes it has been done.
Eveone who entered this country in days gone by, were not given free hand outs from goverment, they had to work.

Everone had to learn english, and I feel this way about that. Why is it just Mexican are allowed to come into this country as ilegals, why not allow all nations into to the US, no more waiting no green cards, free goverment services. 
Plus they should be allowed to speak their language and not have to learn ours. 
How is that for fair??? To heck with laws, just a free for all, and goverment is to pay for it. Doesn't that sound fair. Why should one have to wait to come into this country for citizenship. Go for it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> 
> It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English!


Oh, for heaven's sake! Nobody can vote unless they are a citizen! And, I would bet they know more actual information about our government than most of us, since they had to take a course in the constitution and government before they could become citizens. Is it possible that one of your ancestors spoke German or Polish or Russian or Sioux? We didn't just sprout here - every one of us came here from somewhere else. The stereotypes you put forth are identical to the ones talked about when the waves of immigration began at the turn of the century. Does the phrase "Irish need not apply" sound familiar? That was a common sign in the early part of the last century. Your fear and paranoia is sad.[/quote]

1. No proof of citizenship is asked for at the voting polls. 2. I've not heard of any illegal German, Polish, Russian, or Sioux problem. 3. There were problems with discrimination at the turn of the century. However, there was no government welfare for them and they had to be self sufficient.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Proof of citizenship is required to get a voters card, and to be enrolled on voting rolls. In most states you cannot get a drivers license without a Social Security number,which you cannot get if you are not a citizen.


thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> ...


1. No proof of citizenship is asked for at the voting polls. 2. I've not heard of any illegal German, Polish, Russian, or Sioux problem. 3. There were problems with discrimination at the turn of the century. However, there was no government welfare for them and they had to be self sufficient.[/quote] And immigrants were taken advantage of, lived in slums, and worked long hours for little pay. Ever heard of the "Shirtwaist Factory" fires? Immigrant women were caught in factories where they were locked in and unable to get out when a building caught fire, because nobody was willing to help them learn their rights. This is a big country. What are you so afraid of?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> 
> It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English!


Oh, for heaven's sake! Nobody can vote unless they are a citizen! And, I would bet they know more actual information about our government than most of us, since they had to take a course in the constitution and government before they could become citizens. Is it possible that one of your ancestors spoke German or Polish or Russian or Sioux? We didn't just sprout here - every one of us came here from somewhere else. The stereotypes you put forth are identical to the ones talked about when the waves of immigration began at the turn of the century. Does the phrase "Irish need not apply" sound familiar? That was a common sign in the early part of the last century. Your fear and paranoia is sad.[/quote]

I was born in the USA as well as my ancestors who are American Indians. My Indian name is Little Moon Flower given to me by the tribal doctor at my birth without a real doctor or hospital.

I know for a fact that OBO was mainly elected by illegals who are allowed to vote. They have babies quickly so they won't be deported. The men who are responsible for those babies are not held accountable, but work and send money back to families at home in their country, but they live with wives or girlfriends who has free rent/food stamps and free medical care.

What do we get but the bills with higher taxes.

Most people you are talking about, came into the USA legally, did not cross the border nor came from Cuba by boat.

Does this hit a nerve--are you illegal?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

In Minnesota we have same day voter registration. All that's needed is someone to vouch for you. Fake SS numbers are easy to get from what I've heard. Years ago I worked on a hospital business office. One way to search for a patient account was by SS #. If someone with a name identifiable to a certain ethnic group gave me a SS# I would often come up with anywhere up to 10 matches when I should have only gotten one.



pardoquilts said:


> Proof of citizenship is required to get a voters card, and to be enrolled on voting rolls. In most states you cannot get a drivers license without a Social Security number,which you cannot get if you are not a citizen.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


 And immigrants were taken advantage of, lived in slums, and worked long hours for little pay. Ever heard of the "Shirtwaist Factory" fires? Immigrant women were caught in factories where they were locked in and unable to get out when a building caught fire, because nobody was willing to help them learn their rights. This is a big country. What are you so afraid of?[/quote]


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Human beings are not illegal! It is interesting that you "know" that whoever OBO is ???was elected by undocumented voters. I'm from Chicago, so I know it is possible to cheat the system, but, believe me, it isn't that easy. There were almost no documented cases of voter fraud reported in the last several elections. The rantings of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk do not count as truth! I still don't know what you are afraid of.


Janeway said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> ...


I was born in the USA as well as my ancestors who are American Indians. My Indian name is Little Moon Flower given to me by the tribal doctor at my birth without a real doctor or hospital.

I know for a fact that OBO was mainly elected by illegals who are allowed to vote. They have babies quickly so they won't be deported. The men who are responsible for those babies are not held accountable, but work and send money back to families at home in their country, but they live with wives or girlfriends who has free rent/food stamps and free medical care.

What do we get but the bills with higher taxes.

Most people you are talking about, came into the USA legally, did not cross the border nor came from Cuba by boat.

Does this hit a nerve--are you illegal?[/quote]


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?


Then why didn't the democrats go for this from the beginning instead of producing the ACA? That would have been logical. Must have been something else in it for them from the insurance companies.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Because they knew they would never be able to get it passed! The obstructionist Republicans would never have allowed it.


soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

So instead, they had someone/people write a bill and just voted on said bill without bothering to read it. Makes perfect sense to me. No wonder the country is in such trouble.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Thumper, your experiences echo ours...many friends are MDs, or other health care providers...no one has had good experience with govt.sponsored health care. While I respect what pardoquilts reports, I don't know ANYONE who feels this way. All our medical care has been at major medical centers in Boston and it has been exemplary. We both have had life threatening illnesses for which we know would not have received treatment if we were on Medicare or Medicaid because of the severity/ nature of the illnesses and cost of the fairly new expensive treatments. We both, at different times, were not expected to survive the illness or the treatment. We are both considered " miracles" , me at 20 years out of treatment and hubby's at 11 years. 
Friends who were providers were / are so dissatisfied with everything the govt tries to control, from payment, to quality of care. One nursing home owner declared bankruptcy because of the lag in govt.payment which was over one million dollars owed to him, for over a year. He couldn't pay his services, providers, etc, and could barely make payroll. remember, when doctors or medical providers enter into a contract with the govt.to provide services, they do not set their rates. they simply must accept what the govt says they deserve. the govt. tells them how many patients they need to see in a day, and how long they can spend with each patient. My doctors have said they now spend 50 o/o of their time fighting with those who are responsible for approving payments...time that these WORLD CLASS doctors aren't spending treating patients , conducting research, or teaching med students. Oh, another big surprise...when the "insurance" forms are submitted to Medicare , Medicaid,etc. for payment, they go to outside sources for determining validity for payment. These section makers aren't medically trained or licensed. They have guidelines by which they evaluate the claims, and if they can find one teeny error-- a mistyped number, code, wrongly used word-- the claim is denied. When the claim is supposedly corrected and refiled, the validation process is drawn out. if one seeks help via the phone, wait times to speak to a decision maker are long...20 min. or longer. when that new advice is followed and the claim is refiled, the process is repeated. everything that can be done to derail the claim is done. The amount of time, money wasted on this inefficient process. Is criminal, IMHO. God bless the doctors and medical providers who hang in...but the numbers will be diminishing and we all will be accepting a lesser standard of medical care UNLESS you can afford private care. 
Many young bright students are warned away from studying medicine by their parents who are experiencing these horrors. Considering the cost of a medical education and training why would our young talented kids want to face insurmountable debt for a profession that will be controlled by an uninformed govt.? What the medical profession will be left with will be students who qualify for govt.scholarships, where medicine is not their first choice. ( remember when the soviet union was new...careers and educational opportunities were determined for the citizens...how did that work out?)
Perhaps govt.provided services are fine for those who are healthy, but heaven help the rest of us. Ive never known anyone, patient, or medical provider, who felt the govt.run, one- payer system was superior. If our president and congress, and UNIONS, had believed that, they would not have exempted themselves from being required to be part of Obamamacare. In fact, the big UNIONS contributed megabucks to HerrObama during his campaign in exchange for that exemption...our transparent govt.at its finest.
Sorry for typos...editing is not efficient on this iPad...I need a lesson.

quote=thumper5316]


pardoquilts said:


> My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.


LOL!! I work in healthcare and, in all the years I've been doing contracting/consulting and the hundreds of doctors I've met and talked to I've NEVER heard ONE that has had good things to say about Medicare. More and more are dropping government funded healthcare coverages because they don't pay enough. It's the private insurance and the self-pay patients that offset the crappy reimbursement of the government programs.

More physicians are dropping certain risky parts of their practices, such as obstetrics, so they can drop their malpractice coverage and reduce their malpractice insurance cost. What good is having a procedure covered if you can't find a doctor who does it?

What source did your statistics come from?[/quote]


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

There are illegals here from all corners of the world. Many have entered from Canada...through VT. Some came by ship; others were smuggled by too many ways to count; others came on student visas, fake and real, and stayed, and CANNOT be located! And YES, many voted who were either not qualified, or who were not who they claimed to be. Voter fraud existed. google Veritas.com, see James O'Keefe
Founder, Project Veritas and Voter fraud. Votes were bought also. 


theyarnlady said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> ...


No one can vote that is too funny , all one needs is a drivers license, and to not tell truth. Yes it has been done.
Eveone who entered this country in days gone by, were not given free hand outs from goverment, they had to work.

Everone had to learn english, and I feel this way about that. Why is it just Mexican are allowed to come into this country as ilegals, why not allow all nations into to the US, no more waiting no green cards, free goverment services. 
Plus they should be allowed to speak their language and not have to learn ours. 
How is that for fair??? To heck with laws, just a free for all, and goverment is to pay for it. Doesn't that sound fair. Why should one have to wait to come into this country for citizenship. Go for it.[/quote]


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So instead, they had someone/people write a bill and just voted on said bill without bothering to read it. Makes perfect sense to me. No wonder the country is in such trouble.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Too many people accept, blindly what the govt. spews. Plus there are bleeding-heart-liberals - from each party - who would give away the store rather than take a hard line and protect AMERICANS!!! They don't want to look like bad guys.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I disagree...if intelligent people had been given a chance to examine it, debate it, etc. something good might have been created. But obumma's agenda to get this passed quickly in the 1st term - he didn't really believe that he'd be reelected- as his 'Legacy' was paramount, and now we'll all suffer for our collective stupidly. We have to stop blaming one party or another. By doing that, we are following the rhetoric of our party - which they want - and closing our thinking minds to what is really happening. We're all in this mess together.


pardoquilts said:


> Because they knew they would never be able to get it passed! The obstructionist Republicans would never have allowed it.
> 
> 
> soloweygirl said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

again, right on!thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup


theyarnlady said:


> Doesn't any one find it amusing, except for Lady who wants to use the words as it was called.
> 
> Afforable for whom?? the poor and the goverment body. If you do not have insurance you will be fined.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Did it occur to you that they were perhaps obstructing it for a reason?



pardoquilts said:


> Because they knew they would never be able to get it passed! The obstructionist Republicans would never have allowed it.
> 
> 
> soloweygirl said:
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Yes - the stated purpose of nearly everything the Republicans did was to keep President Obama from having a second term. It is what they worked for, instead of finding ways to craft cooperative legislation. Now that the people have spoken - clearly - a few with some common sense have decided it is time to try creating legislation, such as immigration policy, which can be agreed to by both sides of the aisle. I honestly believe in the two party system, but as Bobby Jindahl said last weekend, it is "time for the Republicans to stop being the party of stupid!" His words, not mine!


thumper5316 said:


> Did it occur to you that they were perhaps obstructing it for a reason?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Very well put, pardoquilts! 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:



pardoquilts said:


> Yes - the stated purpose of nearly everything the Republicans did was to keep President Obama from having a second term. It is what they worked for, instead of finding ways to craft cooperative legislation. Now that the people have spoken - clearly - a few with some common sense have decided it is time to try creating legislation, such as immigration policy, which can be agreed to by both sides of the aisle. I honestly believe in the two party system, but as Bobby Jindahl said last weekend, it is "time for the Republicans to stop being the party of stupid!" His words, not mine!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Normally i agree with most of what you say...but here I will paraphrase your words and insert the name of the other party - remember I am truly an independent - you almost said: " the stated purpose of nearly everything the Democrats did was to keep President Obama in office.. It is what they worked for, instead of finding ways to craft cooperative legislation" and I'll add instead of trying to keep Obama's promises...and improve the economy, jobs, etc. He pushed for what he wanted to be his legacy- healthcare - without proper vetting. Plenty of blame to go around, I think. Not criticizing YOU.


pardoquilts said:


> Yed it is time to try creating legislation, such as immes - the stated purpose of nearly everything the Republicans did was to keep President Obama from having a second term. It is what they worked for, instead of finding ways to craft cooperative legislation. Now that the people have spoken - clearly - a few with some common sense have decidigration policy, which can be agreed to by both sides of the aisle. I honestly believe in the two party system, but as Bobby Jindahl said last weekend, it is "time for the Republicans to stop being the party of stupid!" His words, not mine!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That's what I hear too. I cannot imagine anyone wanting the government to run anything.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I guess some of you think that health insurance companies are running things just perfectly!! Do they cover everything? Does anyone ever have a problem with getting a procedure/surgery covered? Is anyone ever denied coverage? Is everyone satisfied with the cost of his-her premiums or does your employer pay it for you? Are you covered in a group or are you paying for an individual policy? Do insurance companies ever make decisions about what's covered? Do they ever raise your rates? Are they operating as non-profits or do they actually make money on your premiums? If they're for-profit corporations can they really provide the best coverage for you with no motivation regarding how much money they have to make? Honestly, the way some of you fear the government getting into the health care process leads me to believe that we now have the perfect system through private companies.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

momeee said:


> Thumper, your experiences echo ours...many friends are MDs, or other health care providers...no one has had good experience with govt.sponsored health care. While I respect what pardoquilts reports, I don't know ANYONE who feels this way. All our medical care has been at major medical centers in Boston and it has been exemplary. We both have had life threatening illnesses for which we know would not have received treatment if we were on Medicare or Medicaid because of the severity/ nature of the illnesses and cost of the fairly new expensive treatments. We both, at different times, were not expected to survive the illness or the treatment. We are both considered " miracles" , me at 20 years out of treatment and hubby's at 11 years.
> Friends who were providers were / are so dissatisfied with everything the govt tries to control, from payment, to quality of care. One nursing home owner declared bankruptcy because of the lag in govt.payment which was over one million dollars owed to him, for over a year. He couldn't pay his services, providers, etc, and could barely make payroll. remember, when doctors or medical providers enter into a contract with the govt.to provide services, they do not set their rates. they simply must accept what the govt says they deserve. the govt. tells them how many patients they need to see in a day, and how long they can spend with each patient. My doctors have said they now spend 50 o/o of their time fighting with those who are responsible for approving payments...time that these WORLD CLASS doctors aren't spending treating patients , conducting research, or teaching med students. Oh, another big surprise...when the "insurance" forms are submitted to Medicare , Medicaid,etc. for payment, they go to outside sources for determining validity for payment. These section makers aren't medically trained or licensed. They have guidelines by which they evaluate the claims, and if they can find one teeny error-- a mistyped number, code, wrongly used word-- the claim is denied. When the claim is supposedly corrected and refiled, the validation process is drawn out. if one seeks help via the phone, wait times to speak to a decision maker are long...20 min. or longer. when that new advice is followed and the claim is refiled, the process is repeated. everything that can be done to derail the claim is done. The amount of time, money wasted on this inefficient process. Is criminal, IMHO. God bless the doctors and medical providers who hang in...but the numbers will be diminishing and we all will be accepting a lesser standard of medical care UNLESS you can afford private care.
> Many young bright students are warned away from studying medicine by their parents who are experiencing these horrors. Considering the cost of a medical education and training why would our young talented kids want to face insurmountable debt for a profession that will be controlled by an uninformed govt.? What the medical profession will be left with will be students who qualify for govt.scholarships, where medicine is not their first choice. ( remember when the soviet union was new...careers and educational opportunities were determined for the citizens...how did that work out?)
> Perhaps govt.provided services are fine for those who are healthy, but heaven help the rest of us. Ive never known anyone, patient, or medical provider, who felt the govt.run, one- payer system was superior. If our president and congress, and UNIONS, had believed that, they would not have exempted themselves from being required to be part of Obamamacare. In fact, the big UNIONS contributed megabucks to HerrObama during his campaign in exchange for that exemption...our transparent govt.at its finest.
> ...


[/quote]my doctor, and every physician in his practice, support a single payer system, such as Medicare. Obstetricians and others whose insurance premiums have soared began dropping risky parts of their practices long before a healthcare initiative was proposed. It has nothing to do with the healthcare system and everything to do with insurance companies and juries who award huge fines.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Personally I like the healthcare coverage that is provided me as a surviving spouse from my husband's former employer.
We were never denied any coverage for his cancer treatments, some of which were very costly, nor were we ever denied the medicine that he was prescribed. One month costing over 3500 and we only had to pay the copayment. We did that for a year. 

I realize that they were self insured and also in the healthcare industry. 

I can't complain as even when I had breast cancer..I only had to pay the copays of the dr visits for my chemo and radiation. My out of pocket is around 1500, after that they will pay for everything. I have no maximum coverage. 
No this is not or was it free, it costs me 250 a month. 

Yes I wish everyone could have excellent healthcare. 

Health insurance isn't free, I feel what I pay is fair. 

What do you feel is a fair amount to pay for healthcare?


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I am on Medicaid and pay $350/mo. I had lost my job 4 years ago and due to age, economy, change in career goals, no job was found. I have not used the medicaid except for yearly physicals. I am happy to have it, but some would call me a "taker". I can't help it. It is not free, but reasonable compared to some. I am a single, senior adult.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Knovice Knitter, I don't or never would consider you a taker. I am sure you do without things to pay for your insurance. Even if you just use it for your yearly visits to the doctor! That does add up! Blood tests, mammograms etc all add up. 

I think what upsets so many is the fact that people who are provided healthcare through their employers don't take it because they don't think they will ever need it, then they will just go to the ER where they will be treated regardless if not having insurance.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I guess some of you think that health insurance companies are running things just perfectly!! Do they cover everything? Does anyone ever have a problem with getting a procedure/surgery covered? Is anyone ever denied coverage? Is everyone satisfied with the cost of his-her premiums or does your employer pay it for you? Are you covered in a group or are you paying for an individual policy? Do insurance companies ever make decisions about what's covered? Do they ever raise your rates? Are they operating as non-profits or do they actually make money on your premiums? If they're for-profit corporations can they really provide the best coverage for you with no motivation regarding how much money they have to make? Honestly, the way some of you fear the government getting into the health care process leads me to believe that we now have the perfect system through private companies.


All I know is that since Obamacare was forced on us, my premiums have almost doubled. There is no such thing as free. Yes I did mean forced. If the Democrats in the Senate was so proud of their bill, it would have had a formal vote. By not putting a yea or a nay next to their names, they had no accountability, cowards.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Human beings are not illegal! It is interesting that you "know" that whoever OBO is ???was elected by undocumented voters. I'm from Chicago, so I know it is possible to cheat the system, but, believe me, it isn't that easy. There were almost no documented cases of voter fraud reported in the last several elections. The rantings of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk do not count as truth! I still don't know what you are afraid of.
> 
> 
> Janeway said:
> ...


[/quote]

You know for a fact that he was elected by illegals, then you must be compicit in his election if you did not report this ilegal voting. There hasn't een any fraudulent voting cases in this country except for the Republican woman who tried to vote twice in the last election, and she is going to pay stiff fines


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

PS

If Obamacare is so great, why aren't the Federal Employees mandated to use it? If it is good enough for us, why not them?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> There are illegals here from all corners of the world. Many have entered from Canada...through VT. Some came by ship; others were smuggled by too many ways to count; others came on student visas, fake and real, and stayed, and CANNOT be located! And YES, many voted who were either not qualified, or who were not who they claimed to be. Voter fraud existed. google Veritas.com, see James O'Keefe
> Founder, Project Veritas and Voter fraud. Votes were bought also.
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]

I googled voter fraud............not much to mention. It exists in the closed minds of Republicans, besides how do you know who these illegals voted for. Could have been for Romney just as much as Obama. Do you also know who exactly all these illegals voted for?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> I am on Medicaid and pay $350/mo. I had lost my job 4 years ago and due to age, economy, change in career goals, no job was found. I have not used the medicaid except for yearly physicals. I am happy to have it, but some would call me a "taker". I can't help it. It is not free, but reasonable compared to some. I am a single, senior adult.


Even $350/month is a lot for someone in your situation, in my opinion. You are not a "taker." What people don't understand is that there are thousands who are in the same position. Too many people think that people who are having trouble financially are all "those people" who are always looking for a handout. Thank you for posting and being honest about your circumstance. Everyone of us could find ourselves in a similar situation. That's why I think the way I do. I wish everyone could have affordable health insurance!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

p.s. Most of the provisions of Obamacare haven't even gone into effect yet. Maybe your insurance company just decided on a whim that they want to make more money right now, so they raised their rates.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.


Another voice of reason, thank you for sharing this.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

knovice knitter - you are exactly the person who deserves this help...I'm a little surprised and disappointed that it is so costly.
Be well.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I believe that there should be some reforms, but there should also be a choice. I should have the right to choose where or not I just want hospitalization or a more complex form of insurance. That is not necessarily based on money, just what I believe I want or need. I resent being told what I need need. I should not have to pay for services through my premium for services that I find morally wrong.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I believe that there should be some reforms, but there should also be a choice. I should have the right to choose where or not I just want hospitalization or a more complex form of insurance. That is not necessarily based on money, just what I believe I want or need. I resent being told what I need need. I should not have to pay for services through my premium for services that I find morally wrong.


And people shouldn't be denied services that they think are morally OK?


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

off2knit said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I guess some of you think that health insurance companies are running things just perfectly!! Do they cover everything? Does anyone ever have a problem with getting a procedure/surgery covered? Is anyone ever denied coverage? Is everyone satisfied with the cost of his-her premiums or does your employer pay it for you? Are you covered in a group or are you paying for an individual policy? Do insurance companies ever make decisions about what's covered? Do they ever raise your rates? Are they operating as non-profits or do they actually make money on your premiums? If they're for-profit corporations can they really provide the best coverage for you with no motivation regarding how much money they have to make? Honestly, the way some of you fear the government getting into the health care process leads me to believe that we now have the perfect system through private companies.
> ...


@ Off2Knit - Your premiums have gone up because your insurance company is comprised of people who are concerned only with THEIR bottom line, NOT saving you money. The ACA is designed to stop insurance companies from taking advantage of people.

@ alcameron - I think I have already said this somewhere in this thread, but thank you again for your insightful and intelligent comments on this touchy issue.

~Joy


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Yes - the stated purpose of nearly everything the Republicans did was to keep President Obama from having a second term. It is what they worked for, instead of finding ways to craft cooperative legislation. Now that the people have spoken - clearly - a few with some common sense have decided it is time to try creating legislation, such as immigration policy, which can be agreed to by both sides of the aisle. I honestly believe in the two party system, but as Bobby Jindahl said last weekend, it is "time for the Republicans to stop being the party of stupid!" His words, not mine!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


Are you saying the Democrats are smarter? You must be joking!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> I am on Medicaid and pay $350/mo. I had lost my job 4 years ago and due to age, economy, change in career goals, no job was found. I have not used the medicaid except for yearly physicals. I am happy to have it, but some would call me a "taker". I can't help it. It is not free, but reasonable compared to some. I am a single, senior adult.


I thought Medicaid was free in all states. Why do they make you pay any amount as Medicaid is insurance through the welfare system. I don 't understand.

Sorry you lost your job--hope you are doing OK.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> knovice knitter said:
> 
> 
> > I am on Medicaid and pay $350/mo. I had lost my job 4 years ago and due to age, economy, change in career goals, no job was found. I have not used the medicaid except for yearly physicals. I am happy to have it, but some would call me a "taker". I can't help it. It is not free, but reasonable compared to some. I am a single, senior adult.
> ...


I can't answer for her, but I don't think most people who lose their jobs are "OK." We all need to put ourselves in another's shoes before we talk about "takers" and "those people."


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

The law requires insurers to give out annual rebates by Aug. 1, starting this year, if less than 80 percent of the premium dollars they collect go toward medical care. For insurers covering large employers, the threshold is 85 percent.

This part of the ACA has gone into place, so insurance companies have to use 85% of premiums on healthcare costs. 

Insurance companies are now having to cover at 100 percent the cost of preventative care. Procedures that we(patients ) had to pay a percentage of are now covered because they are classified as preventative
care? (Mammogram, vaccines, colonoscopy, bone density, Pap smears, blood 
work) 
Premiums are going to go up to pay for these things. 

Really what hasn't gone up.. Just look at your grocery bill or anything else. The sad thing wages haven't gone up with inflation


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > There are illegals here from all corners of the world. Many have entered from Canada...through VT. Some came by ship; others were smuggled by too many ways to count; others came on student visas, fake and real, and stayed, and CANNOT be located! And YES, many voted who were either not qualified, or who were not who they claimed to be. Voter fraud existed. google Veritas.com, see James O'Keefe
> ...


I googled voter fraud............not much to mention. It exists in the closed minds of Republicans, besides how do you know who these illegals voted for. Could have been for Romney just as much as Obama. Do you also know who exactly all these illegals voted for?[/quote]

You must be kidding with your remarks about voter fraud only existing in Republicans minds!

Get the facts as Ingried would say-- you sound just like her--are you back under a new name & email address? She was kicked off KP for her hateful remarks--so watch out or they will deny you access to KP.

Let me draw you a picture: [ demos + demos = Obo, but {Reps+Reps= intelligence}]!

Before I left home, my dad told me if you vote Democratic, you will grow-up and will always vote a full Republican ticket. So grow-up fast!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > knovice knitter said:
> ...


Alcameron, I did not call her a "taker and those people" as you implied. I just don't understand why she if forced to pay $350. a month for Medicaid which I thought was universal in all states Welfare which is free.

Don't knock every word and put words into my mouth. I am sorry she is having a rough time.

I just saw where you went off line.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway, I was not referring to you. I was speaking about people in general.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> PS
> 
> If Obamacare is so great, why aren't the Federal Employees mandated to use it? If it is good enough for us, why not them?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> PS
> 
> If Obamacare is so great, why aren't the Federal Employees mandated to use it? If it is good enough for us, why not them?


Very true! Why can't others see through the OBO care!

Your input is great! You rock!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway, I was not referring to you. I was speaking about people in general.


OK, sorry!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Are you saying the Democrats are smarter? You must be joking!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying the Democrats are smarter? You must be joking!
> ...


Me too with the 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying the Democrats are smarter? You must be joking!
> ...


Me too with the 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

When I originally signed up for medicaid, it was $120/mo. That stayed the same for a year. Then I got a bill for $220. I called them to ask what was up and was told to pay it or drop out. And if I dropped out, I could not get back into the program as they were not taking any more. A month later it went up to $325 and has remained the same. Every month, I get the bill, and dread opening it for fear of seeing another hike. This all started when our new Governor was elected. His name is Scott Walker. Maybe you remember him last year during a heated recall election. His policies have made quite a national stir. Anyway, this health program is called Badger Care and is the medicaid program we have in Wisconsin. I believe Mr. Walker is trying to get rid of the program thru' attrition. As people drop out with the rising rates, no new people will be coming in and eventually, the program will disappear. I just keep paying by bleeding my meager savings and keeping my fingers crossed that the rates will stay the same and the program will be there if I need it. My own brother calls me a taker, not anyone here personally.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > This is horrible, unacceptable, and unbelievable. Where will this nonsense end? It is another example of the present administration's ability- or attempt- to control OUR lives, while there are so many questionable aspects of gov't. spending, regulations etc. that are questionable if not blatantly illegal,which go unexamined and unanswered. (Just a silly question- are you on Medicare, Medicaid or private insurance?) I suspect regulations apply differently to different insurance programs...or perhaps I'm being paranoid.
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


Now Janeway you know better than that. I saw your art work the other day and your drawing was more like this {+}.[[email protected]&$$]. I think you may be having problems again with your reversals. Doesn't that make more sense? You've been reading too much Michio Kaku again.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > ZENmama said:
> ...


Most times it's best to just ignore the bovine fecal material.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> knittingdragon said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps, if people had been truly better informed prior to both elections, and more involved with their representatives, the outcome might have been better, or less contentious.
> ...


----------



## knittingdragon (Jun 15, 2012)

58 pages and counting. I think we should all go back to knitting. Less aggressive!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > My doctor is a huge supporter of a single payer system. He says without question that the best run insurance system he sees in his practice is Medicare - which is run by the government. The point of the current healthcare bill, and of a single payer system is that the risks are pooled. This is always less expensive in the long run. However, insurance companies wouldn't make the big profits if this were to happen, so they lobbied to keep anything resembling that from happening. The malarkey about how there would be "death squads", and limits on other health care options is propaganda put out by those same insurance companies, and is fueled by paranoid people. Many companies with better healthcare statistics than ours have single payer, government run systems. The taxes may be higher, but the care is better, too.
> ...


Thumper you are right on.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > In the past few years, insurance companies raised our health care premiums every year. Our costs went up and up and up. I didn't see any screaming on this forum complaining about these nasty companies raising our rates. I guess that was good, old American capitalism---CEOs getting rich on our premiums, sick people and those who hardly ever used their insurance. Now that our government is trying to slow the rising costs of health care, people are complaining. What's up with that? Medicare is a one-payer system that works. Why not cover everyone under that system? It's already in place. Call it socialism if you want to. What's the difference if it works and covers everyone?
> ...


Exactly. Or if a non-medical panel decides that what your physician orders is "not medically necessary" ??


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I am very appreciative to have this forum to share ideas and information. Tonight I was shocked and dismayed to learn from knovice knitters' post about the high fees some are paying for medicàid. In my area( New England) everyone I knew on Medicaid did not pay for it...and their coverage was better than most private insurance coverage. Clients not only had access to free medical care, also included were dental services, including orthodontics, audiology, including hearing aids, and opthemologist services, including glasses. Prior to retirement my top medical insurance through my employer, who contributed to it, did not include all that Medicaid did. 
I hate the abuses, but for circumstances such as knovice knitter described, there needs to be a safety net, irrespective of the political party currently in power. And at the local level more care and enforcement should be instituted to weed out and prevent unqualified people from benefiting from govt.programs which are intended to help the truly needy.



knittingdragon said:


> 58 pages and counting. I think we should all go back to knitting. Less aggressive!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Doesn't any one find it amusing, except for Lady who wants to use the words as it was called.
> 
> Afforable for whom?? the poor and the goverment body. If you do not have insurance you will be fined.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> People I know are not against the Hispanics, but the way they are "living" off of us while they dress in expensive clothing, and eat out constantly have babies like rabbits. If they become citizens (however were they allowed to vote is beyond me) start paying their own bills, serve in the military, then people will start liking them.
> 
> It is not against their color, but their coming here and never attempt to become USA citizens. Also, they don't even try to speak English!


Oh, for heaven's sake! Nobody can vote unless they are a citizen! And, I would bet they know more actual information about our government than most of us, since they had to take a course in the constitution and government before they could become citizens. Is it possible that one of your ancestors spoke German or Polish or Russian or Sioux? We didn't just sprout here - every one of us came here from somewhere else. The stereotypes you put forth are identical to the ones talked about when the waves of immigration began at the turn of the century. Does the phrase "Irish need not apply" sound familiar? That was a common sign in the early part of the last century. Your fear and paranoia is sad.[/quote]

Only citizens vote?? Amphigory !! Or as Tony Blair would say piffle !!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing. 
How's about you all get a good nights sleep? Those of you who live where it's daylight might need a nap. 
I've been checking in with you on occasion, and you are all repeating yourselves, and making little if any head way. 
Actually some of it's starting to sound a bit off the beam. 
I'll check back with you tomorrow to see if anyone has come up with a useful means of getting our country back into some kind of order. But how about using your own brains, and not the stuff you find online, or something you heard from your brother's neighbors cousin's first wives mother. Give it a good think. You may be surprised at the good ideas you might come up with. 
If you use the terms.....Government, Democrat, Republican, or Obama care, then you are just falling back into the same old ideas. Let's see if any of you can make a real diff. Not just tit for tat statements. I know it'll be hard, as some thrive on this kind of controversy, but give it a shot anyway, why wait for the government to fix it. Stop complaining and get out there and make a diff.......will be back tomorrow to see how you're doing.......Night all.... :lol:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No it is not perfect, but it is better than government run!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

knittingdragon said:


> 58 pages and counting. I think we should all go back to knitting. Less aggressive!


You've never seen me knit.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Me either. Very aggressive.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


You must be kidding with your remarks about voter fraud only existing in Republicans minds!

Get the facts as Ingried would say-- you sound just like her--are you back under a new name & email address? She was kicked off KP for her hateful remarks--so watch out or they will deny you access to KP.

Let me draw you a picture: [ demos + demos = Obo, but {Reps+Reps= intelligence}]!

Before I left home, my dad told me if you vote Democratic, you will grow-up and will always vote a full Republican ticket. So grow-up fast![/quote]

Jasneway..I would like links to your voter fraud information and please do not give me your right wing rhetoric......Democrats have always been smarter than Republicans


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I think that KK is on a plan that is not true Medicaid but similar to what we have here in Minnesota called MCHA. Those who are true medical assistance do not pay a fee for their coverage. Given that KK does pay a fee, but a reduced fee, and has obvious health issues, it is my guess that it is Wisconsin's coverage comparable to MCHA. There are certain conditions that must be met in order to qualify.



momeee said:


> I am very appreciative to have this forum to share ideas and information. Tonight I was shocked and dismayed to learn from knovice knitters' post about the high fees some are paying for medicàid. In my area( New England) everyone I knew on Medicaid did not pay for it...and their coverage was better than most private insurance coverage. Clients not only had access to free medical care, also included were dental services, including orthodontics, audiology, including hearing aids, and opthemologist services, including glasses. Prior to retirement my top medical insurance through my employer, who contributed to it, did not include all that Medicaid did.
> I hate the abuses, but for circumstances such as knovice knitter described, there needs to be a safety net, irrespective of the political party currently in power. And at the local level more care and enforcement should be instituted to weed out and prevent unqualified people from benefiting from govt.programs which are intended to help the truly needy.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Jasneway..I would like links to your voter fraud information and please do not give me your right wing rhetoric......Democrats have always been smarter than Republicans[/quote]

Janeway..........explain to me how I am being hateful. I just asked a simple quesstion. How do you know there is voter fraud has anyone been prosecuted for it. You said you knew people who voted fraudulently, tell us who and how you know this and why they are not eing prisecuted. Is this eing hateful? There has been no voter fraud.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Jasneway..I would like links to your voter fraud information and please do not give me your right wing rhetoric......Democrats have always been smarter than Republicans


It would depend on what your definition of "smart" is. There are some pretty dumb people on either side of the political spectrum, in all honesty. Now, I'm a pretty smart cookie but look upon my determining process in this manner.

I have a friend who is in need. Do I help this person myself with my own time/money or can I, by force, compel someone else to give their time/money to help this person? I 'feel' that, if I think they need the help, EVERYONE needs to think they need help.

I view 'help' that is compelled or forced upon me as being intellectually dishonest and outright theft. That helper is the Democratic Party. They forcibly take my money if they 'feel' the cause is just (keeping a small portion of it as a finders fee, of course) and if I object point me out, as publically as possible, as someone who wants to see grandma dead, dirty air, blah, blah, blah. Just because they may have a warm smile on their face when they fleece me doesn't change the fact that they are fleecing me.

The democrats also have this intellectually superior smugness that just rubs me the wrong way. They remind me of the popular girls in school that were mean to you unless you agreed with everything they said or did. The ones that wanted to be 'cool' went along with them even when they knew it to be wrong.

These behaviors do not make them smart. It makes them dishonest people who are thieves and bullies or cowards who are incapable of standing their ground.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Good grief, Thumper! You, my dear, are suffering from paranoia. And before you accuse me of name-calling, you just spouted a mouthful about Democrats yourself.
I don't think that the US is a country that wants to let people die or suffer from lack of medical care. How do YOU propose we take care of those people. Send the bill to Donald Trump? Send the bill to the churches? Who is supposed to pay? Some great philanthropist in the sky? Give an alternative plan.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Jasneway..I would like links to your voter fraud information and please do not give me your right wing rhetoric......Democrats have always been smarter than Republicans
> ...


Statistically Dems have more education than Reps


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This country cannot take care of everybody. That is Socialism!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This country cannot take care of everybody. That is Socialism!


So who should take care of them? Let them die?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

What! Far more education. Give me a break. That is SO untrue. Where did you get that information. I have heard it all now.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> What! Far more education. Give me a break. That is SO untrue. Where did you get that information. I have heard it all now.


Please answer. Who should take care of people who have nothing?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Family, community should do it. Not the government.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Family, community should do it. Not the government.


Who in the family when people have no money? Who is the community? Does that mean that you and I as the community have to pay? What if the bill is over a million dollars? Are you going to dig deep and give up your retirement money?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This country cannot take care of everybody. That is Socialism!


Why not? We halp corporations, we help other countries. Why not help our fellow Americans? What is your answer to healthcare? Is eeryone really created equally? There are those among us who do not have the where-with-all to take care of themselves or eaarn enough money to e able to afford food let alone health insuraance. Whst do we do with these people? Lots of them are alreay living in the streets. Do we wnat more street people? What about the chilren? Let them go hungry, let them die of preventable diseases. I guess your interpretation of the US is a third world country, not an enlightened socieety that takes care of its own.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > This country cannot take care of everybody. That is Socialism!
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I just can't understand "these people." Obviously many people are not living in the real world. I'm waiting for someone to tell me that "the poor will always be with us."


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am sorry, but I disagree with you. That is a system of government that has not worked in the past.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...

My response got posted under someone else's
so here it is :The difference is FREE CHOICE. In America we are FREE. Free to choose how to live almost every aspect of our lives. I do not want the govt.making decisions for me. If I want something, I want to be able to work for it, save for it, or not have it if I cannot afford it. If I am ambitious and can start a business with my resources, etc. the profits should be mine...not mine and everyone else's. if I can make a profit and people are willing to pay the price/ rate I set, that is because of MY and the customer's decision. If the price is too high, or better can be had at a lower price, the purchaser should be FREE to choose where to make a purchase. If consumers choose to not purchase my higher priced item, then I need to lower my price to be competitive, or go out of business. If I need to pay my employees appropriately, and meet the other costs of maintaining my business, my goods or services must be priced appropriately. If I can make a profit, it is mine. I took the risk and did all things necessary to be successful if my prices are too high the consumers will let it be known. The govt.has no right interfering in private enterprise.(currently the govt. cannot manage its own financial affairs). If I fail in my business venture due to MY poor decisions, it is not the govt.'s responsibility to bail me out. This is capitalism, and it is a good thing.

Being told where and what to purchase, at a set price, in a set amount is socialism. Just as being told which doctor, what hospital, what medical tests and procedures you are entitled to is socialism. Would you care if you were told how many children you could have, or not have? Who you could marry, or not divorce? How about where you could live, or how many rooms your home could have, or how many calories you could have each day? How about being told what time you and everyone else had to arise in the morning? or that everyone had to wear the same style clothes. How about whether you could own a car, or what model? would you care if there was a limit set on how much savings you could, or had to have? What if the govt told you that your day for grocery shopping was on only one particular day a month and that there was a limit set on what and how much you could buy? What if you were required to have a garden and had to provide specific amounts and varieties for a specified number of your neighbors? How about setting a limit on how long or what programs you could view or listen to? Perhaps the govt could consider mandatory physical exercise, and prohibit ANY and ALL substances deemed unhealthy... the difference is that socialism doesn't work and this has been proven over time.

i do not believe that FREE Americans want the govt making all their important decisions for them, and that is what you'll get with socialism. why do you think there are so many thousands of foreigners who are willing to give up everything, even risk their lives to come to this great country.? What you are suggesting has limitless frightening possibilities, all of which are UNAMERICAN?
Have you ever spoken to anyone who has lived in a non democratic country? I have and don't ever want to experience what exists in communist or socialist countries. Look at cuba...that was a revolution that failed...long term. russia? VietNam? china? present day Greece and spain? Visit some then come back and appreciate free enterprise.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Great response. Thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

AMEN!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you Lukelucy & Country Bumpkins.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you Lukelucy & Country Bumpkins.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...
> 
> My response got posted under someone else's
> so here it is :The difference is FREE CHOICE. In America we are FREE. Free to choose how to live almost every aspect of our lives. I do not want the govt.making decisions for me. If I want something, I want to be able to work for it, save for it, or not have it if I cannot afford it. If I am ambitious and can start a business with my resources, etc. the profits should be mine...not mine and everyone else's. if I can make a profit and people are willing to pay the price/ rate I set, that is because of MY and the customer's decision. If the price is too high, or better can be had at a lower price, the purchaser should be FREE to choose where to make a purchase. If consumers choose to not purchase my higher priced item, then I need to lower my price to be competitive, or go out of business. If I need to pay my employees appropriately, and meet the other costs of maintaining my business, my goods or services must be priced appropriately. If I can make a profit, it is mine. I took the risk and did all things necessary to be successful if my prices are too high the consumers will let it be known. The govt.has no right interfering in private enterprise.(currently the govt. cannot manage its own financial affairs). If I fail in my business venture due to MY poor decisions, it is not the govt.'s responsibility to bail me out. This is capitalism, and it is a good thing.
> ...


a tad over the top, don't you think?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, not over the top at all. That is how many Americans percieve our president - he fosters this kind of thinking. Very dangerous.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

We are all the community. 
Yes communities do help others and many times they do a better job than the govt. Look at what has happened from Hurricane Sandy, people are still waiting for govt or insurance help. It was volunteers many from other communities that came and helped and supplied services for the ones affected.

Faith communities in many cities provide shelter for the homeless every night and meals.

How many times have you seen containers in stores collecting money for someone who needs help with medical bills? Change can add up! People hold dinners, have garage sales, etc to help raise money for people who are in need.

At least where I live and have lived people in the community reach out to help those in need. 

It doesn't always have to be monetarily it could be by providing food, clothing, helping with babysitting, the list goes on...I find that most people when they see a need they are willing to do what they can to help others.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am sorry, but I disagree with you. That is a system of government that has not worked in the past.


I'm waiting to hear your answer to who's going to pay the huge medical bills for people without insurance or money. "The community" is a little too nebulous.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...
> 
> My response got posted under someone else's
> so here it is :The difference is FREE CHOICE. In America we are FREE. Free to choose how to live almost every aspect of our lives. I do not want the govt.making decisions for me. If I want something, I want to be able to work for it, save for it, or not have it if I cannot afford it. If I am ambitious and can start a business with my resources, etc. the profits should be mine...not mine and everyone else's. if I can make a profit and people are willing to pay the price/ rate I set, that is because of MY and the customer's decision. If the price is too high, or better can be had at a lower price, the purchaser should be FREE to choose where to make a purchase. If consumers choose to not purchase my higher priced item, then I need to lower my price to be competitive, or go out of business. If I need to pay my employees appropriately, and meet the other costs of maintaining my business, my goods or services must be priced appropriately. If I can make a profit, it is mine. I took the risk and did all things necessary to be successful if my prices are too
> ...


Okey dokey. 
So, how do we handle the medical, food, and shelter for the people who have nothing. It's ridiculous to think faith groups can handle it all because I can see that there are still people wanting. Let's just limit it to healthcare. I still can't see an answer even after your socialism diatribe.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, not over the top at all. That is how many Americans percieve our president - he fosters this kind of thinking. Very dangerous.


For one, he is center left............not even progressive, however if compared to TReps he is left of Atilla the Hun. The Rep used to be a center right party not a party of regressives. What has happened to the Rep party when Ronald Reagan could not pass muster? He'd never get elected today. what happene To Saint Ronald?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> We are all the community.
> Yes communities do help others and many times they do a better job than the govt. Look at what has happened from Hurricane Sandy, people are still waiting for govt or insurance help. It was volunteers many from other communities that came and helped and supplied services for the ones affected.
> 
> Faith communities in many cities provide shelter for the homeless every night and meals.
> ...


The Republicans refused to give victims of Sandy help. They would not vvote to give them the relief money they needed. Do you not follow the news?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> We are all the community.
> Yes communities do help others and many times they do a better job than the govt. Look at what has happened from Hurricane Sandy, people are still waiting for govt or insurance help. It was volunteers many from other communities that came and helped and supplied services for the ones affected.
> 
> Faith communities in many cities provide shelter for the homeless every night and meals.
> ...


You need a lot of real big money to rebuild after Hurricane Sandy, I don't think a few jars in the local shop is going to really help rebuil the infrastructue


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, not over the top at all. That is how many Americans percieve our president - he fosters this kind of thinking. Very dangerous.


He is not a socialist. That is just wild right wing radio garbage being spewed by the hate mongers. does he want to take over businesses and corporations? Does he want to take over banks? He wants Americans to be covered by health insurance, what is your plan to help people get medical coverage? Private insurance has gone up the past 50 years, due to private insurance companies. Yet America does not have the best healthcare or delivery service in the world. What is your answer to this problem? Big Pharma is also a major problem, a one payer system could be a big help.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...
> ...


I think it's spot on. Well said, momeee.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > We are all the community.
> ...


Did you also actually read the news that they delayed passing the bill because of the pork with which it was loaded?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > No, not over the top at all. That is how many Americans percieve our president - he fosters this kind of thinking. Very dangerous.
> ...


If you had been keeping up with the news he has taken over corporations with bail-out money he took from the taxpayers. He may not have taken over the banks but he has made them beholden to him with bail-out money he took from the taxpayers.

I would like to point out, in regards to insurance companies, they have always been private companies. The cost has gone up, in large part, due to the consumer demanding they cover more and more and due to advancements in medical care but lengthy hospitalization and recovery time.

I wouldn't say that obama is a socialist. However, I think that he has lost sight of what America is all about. And that is individual freedom. He appeals to the lowest common denominator of the American society and buys their votes with programs funded by theft from those of us that work.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

First I do read the news and yes i Knew about the bill being held up because of the Pork that was in the bill, not all of it was for Hurricane Sandy relief. Why do you need to add something about something in Alaska to a bill that should be only for Hurricane Sandy. It should have only dealt with Hurricane Sandy relief! 

It was passed by the House, I believe in two parts, then the Senate took their sweet time in passing it. 

Secondly the part of about the jars was not about collecting for Hurricane Sandy victims but was referring to how communities rally to support people in their community who need help with medical bills.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > sjrNC said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> First I do read the news and yes i Knew about the bill being held up because of the Pork that was in the bill, not all of it was for Hurricane Sandy relief. Why do you need to add something about something in Alaska to a bill that should be only for Hurricane Sandy. It should have only dealt with Hurricane Sandy relief!
> 
> It was passed by the House, I believe in two parts, then the Senate took their sweet time in passing it.
> 
> Secondly the part of about the jars was not about collecting for Hurricane Sandy victims but was referring to how communities rally to support people in their community who need help with medical bills.


sjrNC, I was responding to rocky and her accusations that the republicans didn't want to help the victims of Hurricane Sandy.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I am not the lowest common denominator of American society. He did not take over corporations, he and others bailed them out, however they are certainly not beholding to him,,,,,they supported Romney during the election and as for banks bailed out supporting Obama I don't think so. But I was rather pleasantly supprised that citizens United did not buy this election. shows you that most people were paying close attention to what is wrong with our political system and why we were in such a bind financially.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > We are all the community.
> ...


Wrong. The republicans would not pass a bill loaded with pork that had nothing or very little to do with actual Sandy relief. They also wanted to know how this money was going to be paid for. After all,it is borrowed money.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I think Obama is a Centrist. I think the Republican Party has lost sight of who makes up the American population.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> First I do read the news and yes i Knew about the bill being held up because of the Pork that was in the bill, not all of it was for Hurricane Sandy relief. Why do you need to add something about something in Alaska to a bill that should be only for Hurricane Sandy. It should have only dealt with Hurricane Sandy relief!
> 
> It was passed by the House, I believe in two parts, then the Senate took their sweet time in passing it.
> 
> Secondly the part of about the jars was not about collecting for Hurricane Sandy victims but was referring to how communities rally to support people in their community who need help with medical bills.


I think that the house took its time and the senate was waiting for them to vote on it. Look it up


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I see you are all still at it. And it's not even making sense anymore. 
We've got two sides here, but to tell you the truth, I can no longer tell which side any of you are on. You are contradicting yourselves so badly. 
Here it is..... Let's get personal. Now none of you have to answer any of the questions I'm putting to you, I just want to know what's causing all of the misconceptions and hatred I've been reading.
You know, I've sat her trying to think of a nice way to put this but I just can't seem to word it properly. So here it is.

Are you all mad because others are getting government assistance and you can't get any? Have you not been able to work at a job that pays enough for you to put money away for your retirement? (Or are you the kind who has to have every new cell phone or Wii game station that comes along), so you haven't put money away, and can't afford any kind of insurance. Have you tried to get on disability (for some reason) and couldn't? And now resent the system? How many of you HAVE jobs? (I figured since so many of you seem to be here bashing the system all day, you are only offline long enough to eat & sleep). And if you don't have jobs, how can you afford computers and the internet? Or do you just plain like to argue?
I'm guessing most likely it's the latter of all my questions. I'd be happy to start by answering all my questions first. 

No, I am not on any kind of government assistance. Though when my youngest daughter started school in 1986, they could not understand why I wouldn't apply for my child to get free lunches. I told them we don't qualify, we could pay our own way....they were stunned. They said that didn't matter, we could get it anyway. But we were proud that the government didn't have to pay for our children, and that we didn't need it. By the way, that was on Ronald Reagan's watch.

I've worked part time at for the Commission on Aging for the last 13 years, as my kids were grown & have left home. My husband has worked since he was 14 yrs old. When we married, he was working 3 jobs so we could make ends meet. When he was 24, he went to trade school to become a Lineman for a utility company. He joined the union. ( A great institution I must say). He has been working for them for 33 yrs. 

We don't spend frivolously. We don't own a boat, or a motor home, or run to the casinos every weekend. We own cell phones, and you know what our cell phones do? They call out, and receive calls. Why waste money on things we really don't need. We sock our money away for the future, as no one knows what the future might bring. 

As for medical insurance, we pay for that through my husbands job. No it's not cheap, but we have it, and are grateful for it. 

We pay our taxes just like everyone else.

And you know what we've gotten by working hard and saving our money and not wasting it on things we really don't need?
We own both our vehicles outright. We bought 7 acres of land in 1996, and built our own home. All paid for. We owe no one a dime. 
That's what you get with hard work and determination. 
We didn't sit around whining because we didn't get this and didn't get that. Which only goes to show you the American dream does exist, and anyone can get it. But you don't get it by sitting on your butts whining. 

If your world isn't the way you want it to be, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Try being proud of what you do have, and make the best of it. It's all anyone can do. Or you could get out there and do something about it. And I'm sure you've heard this one before....."If you don't like our country, you are perfectly free to move to another."

Now let the bashing begin......


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing.
> How's about you all get a good nights sleep? Those of you who live where it's daylight might need a nap.
> I've been checking in with you on occasion, and you are all repeating yourselves, and making little if any head way.
> Actually some of it's starting to sound a bit off the beam.
> ...


And what are your pearly words of wisdom that will fix our problems? I'll check back after my suggested/ordered nap.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


I, too,am not the lowest common denominator - nor am I "illegal", as someone suggested awhile ago. I believe in individual freedoms, but I also believe in a society that helps the least able to survive on their own. That is, for those who call themselves Christian, one of the basic beliefs of your religion. No, it does not say "government should help one another", but it is much more efficient to do it that way than piecemeal.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Just saying......everyone has had the same opportunity's and if you don't take them you end up sitting on the computer, on a knitting site no less, expecting others to fix your world. 
Leave the government alone to do what they're supposed to. You obviously weren't voted into any kind of government office. 
My words sounded pearly?........Thank you.....Have a good nap........ :lol:


soloweygirl said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing.
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Good grief, Thumper! You, my dear, are suffering from paranoia. And before you accuse me of name-calling, you just spouted a mouthful about Democrats yourself.
> I don't think that the US is a country that wants to let people die or suffer from lack of medical care. How do YOU propose we take care of those people. Send the bill to Donald Trump? Send the bill to the churches? Who is supposed to pay? Some great philanthropist in the sky? Give an alternative plan.


First of all, you need to separate those that really DO need the help and CANNOT help themselves from those that need the help but DO NOT WANT to help themselves. Once separated, I doubt that you will find many who would not want to provide for/help them. The problem lies with those that do not want to help themselves. They are the ones that are costing this country billions every year. What they receive is not free. It costs most taxpayers money they don't have. Why should these taxpayers suffer and do without so the do not want tos can receive free stuff? This is what needs to stop. If Congress doesn't want to reform the system, then they need to be voted out. The do not want tos need to pay their fair share also. They need to work for what they get. I'm sure every city has jobs that need to be done, that aren't defined under a specific job category. Community service is another avenue, it's not just for those that didn't get a jail sentence.

Before you say anything, I have written my Congressmen and Senators about this. Didn't receive a noteworthy reply, unfortunately.

What's your alternative plan?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Gee I am so glad you mention that Dem'ocast,s are smarter than Repulicans. I will have to rite that's done. I doesn't knows that yous were smart. 

Smarts people will haves to find somes of thems and pics their barn.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief, Thumper! You, my dear, are suffering from paranoia. And before you accuse me of name-calling, you just spouted a mouthful about Democrats yourself.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Paranoia seem to me you have slip to name calling. Why? is it because you can't face the truth. That is why most people do this.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Just saying......everyone has had the same opportunity's and if you don't take them you end up sitting on the computer, on a knitting site no less, expecting others to fix your world.
> Leave the government alone to do what they're supposed to. You obviously weren't voted into any kind of government office.
> My words sounded pearly?........Thank you.....Have a good nap........ :lol:
> 
> ...


Oh just go knit or watch the football game or why don't you take a nap. Lift your spirits a bit.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


When someone is so fearful of the government and Obama, it seems a little paranoid. Why aren't you scolding the ones who practice name-calling every time they mention Obama or Democrats?

I have no alternative plan for the healthcare problem. I think the government has to step in to try to do something.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

OH OH what about Indenpender's does that make them half smarter ands haves dump purrrrrr????????????????????????


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I couldn't be happier.....Oh......and BACK AT YA! :lol:


theyarnlady said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Just saying......everyone has had the same opportunity's and if you don't take them you end up sitting on the computer, on a knitting site no less, expecting others to fix your world.
> ...


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## gramm27 (Oct 22, 2011)

He's already taken over big business and corporations not to mention banks. Socializm is on the way my friends.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

gramm27 said:


> He's already taken over big business and corporations not to mention banks. Socializm is on the way my friends.


Please! The President hasn't taken over big business, corporations or banks. Big business supported Romney in the last election.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I don't have health issues. Never missed a day of school beyond grade school and never a day of work in my life. I am so very lucky. I did not know that Badger Care was Medicare until I went for a flu shot at the pharmacy. She said my medical card was Medicaid and I had to go through my primary care to get the shot. The card I use is titled Forward Health Services and does not say Badger Care on it anywhere. When I applied for it, I went through our state government and was directed to Badger Care. I did not apply for this until my unemployment ran out two and a half years ago. I have no income. Zero. If there is a no pay program out there, I don't know why I was not directed to it.


thumper5316 said:


> I think that KK is on a plan that is not true Medicaid but similar to what we have here in Minnesota called MCHA. Those who are true medical assistance do not pay a fee for their coverage. Given that KK does pay a fee, but a reduced fee, and has obvious health issues, it is my guess that it is Wisconsin's coverage comparable to MCHA. There are certain conditions that must be met in order to qualify.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That is the way of the world. There will always be people in need. They need to help themselves, too.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Gee I am so glad you mention that Dem'ocast,s are smarter than Repulicans. I will have to rite that's done. I doesn't knows that yous were smart.
> 
> Smarts people will haves to find somes of thems and pics their barn.


supposed to ne humorous or humorless. Stupid is as stupid does


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## gramm27 (Oct 22, 2011)

Believe what you want but one day the US will wake up and we will all be in trouble and then heads will shake and most will wonder, "what happened to us". I'm just saying, it's not getting any better...just getting worse. Slowly, slowly our rights are being taken away from us as well as parts of the Constitution. Believe what you want.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> That is the way of the world. There will always be people in need. They need to help themselves, too.


I guess you don't understand that there are people who for one reason or another CAN'T help themselves. Are you saying we should let them die??


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

I would rather be decent than right.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have only read a part of this thread, but I'll put in my two cents.
> 
> First, NO ONE has a RIGHT to health care. Our rights are in the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. I have not found the words health care in them.
> 
> Second, we have Life, Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness. I don't see health care in that statement either.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: yet some want it all, for nothing because they are ENTITLED to it!!!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have only read a part of this thread, but I'll put in my two cents.
> 
> First, NO ONE has a RIGHT to health care. Our rights are in the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. I have not found the words health care in them.
> 
> Second, we have Life, Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness. I don't see health care in that statement either.


How about "life?"


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I guess we just let them die if they have no healthcare. Is that what you want? If not, answer the question: how do we as a rich nation take care of the least among us?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have only read a part of this thread, but I'll put in my two cents.
> 
> First, NO ONE has a RIGHT to health care. Our rights are in the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. I have not found the words health care in them.
> 
> Second, we have Life, Liberty , and the Pursuit of Happiness. I don't see health care in that statement either.


Don't take it. Are you old enough for medicare or ss? don't use it., I happen to think that the consitution is a guide and the founding fathers knew that, things change, situations change. If the conctitution was perfect why do we have so many admendments?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I have only read a part of this thread, but I'll put in my two cents.
> ...


I paid into medicare and ss, why shouldn't I get it? I am entitled to it. If you do not want your entitlement, return the check, don't use medicare. Lobby you congressmen so you can return your entitlements,


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


So if you get cancer and can't afford treatment you should just die?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Joeysomma,

You are so right. Thank you for writing that. Healthcare is not a right. You work for your healthcare. Amen. I don't know why people don't get that.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Joeysomma,
> 
> You are so right. Thank you for writing that. Healthcare is not a right. You work for your healthcare. Amen. I don't know why people don't get that.


People who lose their jobs usually lose their healthcare. Don't you get it?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup, you just die.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Joeysomma,
> 
> You are so right. Thank you for writing that. Healthcare is not a right. You work for your healthcare. Amen. I don't know why people don't get that.


And if can not work for it what happens then?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup, you just die.


Well, there, you finally said it. You (and your friends?) just think you should die. What a terrific person you are!! Such love for your fellow man astounds me! No beating around the bush. You should have said that to start off with. One can't argue with barbarians, can one?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S. please don't tell me what a good Christian you are


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes.


Selfish greedy people don't want to help those who are unfortunate. No one knows what hardship may come into anyone's life, I surely hope that those of you who deny people the right to healthcare bause they cannot afford it, do not have to face yourselves and your jjudgemental attitudes regarding helping those in need.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, and they need to find another job (and there are jobs out there) that will supply them with their needs - including healthcare.

Don't you get it?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, and they need to find another job (and there are jobs out there) that will supply them with their needs - including healthcare.

Don't you get it?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh, I forgot to tell you..... I do have a knitting project going. I'm making my Granddaughter a pair of ribbed hand warmers.....what project are you working on? Oh, and I guess you don't know much about football, or you'd know it doesn't start for another 50 minutes. 
What I wrote WAS a fix to the problem. Every man(women) for himself. I just told you how it was done right. 
None of you can fix what's going on, if you haven't prepared for life by now, you just may have lost the chance. Yes, it's going to get worse. The day will come where we'll all be on our own. No insurance or health care of any kind, no food stamps, no hud housing. Nothing. It will be survival of the fittest. Let's face it, most of us couldn't do it. We couldn't live in a sod hut without running water, hunting for our food. Most of us will die. Then there will be plenty for all who are left. Won't see it in my lifetime I'm sure, but it will happen. God help them all.


theyarnlady said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Just saying......everyone has had the same opportunity's and if you don't take them you end up sitting on the computer, on a knitting site no less, expecting others to fix your world.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, and they need to find another job (and there are jobs out there) that will supply them with their needs - including healthcare.
> 
> Don't you get it?


I get it just fine, thank you. There are thousands of people out there who can't find jobs and/or CANNOT work, despite what you say. YOU don't get it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, and they need to find another job (and there are jobs out there) that will supply them with their needs - including healthcare.
> ...


selfrighteous, selfserving people. Hard to fathom where their charitable nature came from. Paul Ryan's...You are on your own,too bad for you, I got mine...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess we just let them die if they have no healthcare. Is that what you want? If not, answer the question: how do we as a rich nation take care of the least among us?


Depends on your definition of "least". I certainly don't think that the laziest among us are deserving of much. So, who gets to determine which is the least and which is the lazy?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I guess we just let them die if they have no healthcare. Is that what you want? If not, answer the question: how do we as a rich nation take care of the least among us?
> ...


I guess syou do Thumper


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Wow this whole topic has gone downhill quickly.

First and foremost I don't think any one of us would ever want someone not to get healthcare. 
People without healthcare use ER rooms as their doctors and they are not denied help. One of the reasons our healthcare costs are so high. We(the taxpayers or anyone) end up paying for these patients either through our taxes or higher costs of health services.

I wish that everyone had the same health insurance I have that does provide me with very good healthcare.

But as I have asked before what should be the cost of affordable healthcare? 

Yes, there are people who can't survive without some help. We just need to make sure that the people who are truly needy are the ones that are getting help.



I feel I am very blessed to have what I have and also realize I need to help those less fortunate than me. I just want to be able to choose to whom I give it. I buy school supplies when my church and the post office collect them. I give to food drives and am one of those people that can't say no to phone call from a charity.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You heard it here---they DO want people to just die--or at least one person does.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


OMG. Now we have to invent a "laziness" assessment.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Thanks for the vote of confidence!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> That is the way of the world. There will always be people in need. They need to help themselves, too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

To rocky1991, You are absolutely entitled to what you've paid into. Whether you choose to use it is your FREE choice. Many days ago, it seems, and many pages ago, I posted some information regarding what our SS accounts should have been worth (and available to us) if the govt. had not used the funds for things other than SS. I hope you didn't think I intimated that you weren't entitled to that. I would never suggest that a person should not take and/or use what was rightfully theirs.  
Others, here have asked how 'we' would plan to care for the less fortunate. I don't know the answer to that but I do know that all things aren't equal and it is not possible to provide for everyone under every circumstance. As attractive as a socialistic view may appear to some, it will not fix the problem in the long run and I don't think any where in history you will find that it has, nor do I believe any economist would tell you that is the answer for providing help for the poor. It is however a rallying cry or a mantra for someone who is looking to garner political support for his agenda.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm still amazed that the term "Obamacare" is being thrown around. The ACA was NOT the act of one man, he did not pen it himself nor did he enact it himself. Call it what it is..the Affordable Care Act.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I'm still amazed that the term "Obamacare" is being thrown around. The ACA was NOT the act of one man, he did not pen it himself nor did he enact it himself. Call it what it is..the Affordable Care Act.


Correct, but I think most people identify him with it as he made it known that it was a priority to get it passed so it would be his legacy.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Oh, yes, you are right about the drawings as what you have taught me makes more sense. The word teatard just gave me fits so thanks for straightening me out so I now see the light!

Is this better? [£¥+*^#$&@^\+=|] {????}


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, you just die.
> ...


Now, now, Alcameron, no name calling allowed! Do you want me to draw you a picture?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> sjrNC said:
> 
> 
> > We are all the community.
> ...


Congress had bigger fish to fry such as the "cliff" or did you forget! Plus the Sandy help was "loaded" with other things!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing.
> How's about you all get a good nights sleep? Those of you who live where it's daylight might need a nap.
> I've been checking in with you on occasion, and you are all repeating yourselves, and making little if any head way.
> Actually some of it's starting to sound a bit off the beam.
> ...


Well, if you think you are so smart, why don't you come up with some good ideas instead of telling us we are just stupid!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Jasneway..I would like links to your voter fraud information and please do not give me your right wing rhetoric......Democrats have always been smarter than Republicans[/quote]

Someone sure pulled the wool over your eyes!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> When I originally signed up for medicaid, it was $120/mo. That stayed the same for a year. Then I got a bill for $220. I called them to ask what was up and was told to pay it or drop out. And if I dropped out, I could not get back into the program as they were not taking any more. A month later it went up to $325 and has remained the same. Every month, I get the bill, and dread opening it for fear of seeing another hike. This all started when our new Governor was elected. His name is Scott Walker. Maybe you remember him last year during a heated recall election. His policies have made quite a national stir. Anyway, this health program is called Badger Care and is the medicaid program we have in Wisconsin. I believe Mr. Walker is trying to get rid of the program thru' attrition. As people drop out with the rising rates, no new people will be coming in and eventually, the program will disappear. I just keep paying by bleeding my meager savings and keeping my fingers crossed that the rates will stay the same and the program will be there if I need it. My own brother calls me a taker, not anyone here personally.


No, you are not a taker as you are paying your way so hold your head high!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janeway.....is your constant use of the word "teatard" an off shoot of the word retard, because if it is, it's an extremely offensive term. If not, would you explain what it REALLY means????


Janeway said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am beginning to believe that no one is 'kicked off of' KP, judging from what I've seen here. Fight on.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> knittingdragon said:
> 
> 
> > 58 pages and counting. I think we should all go back to knitting. Less aggressive!
> ...


As Janeway would say it looks something like this......***<..><..>{{{{ZZZ+X^>>>/4{{|||||\\\
Do I have the picture???


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> p.s. Most of the provisions of Obamacare haven't even gone into effect yet. Maybe your insurance company just decided on a whim that they want to make more money right now, so they raised their rates.


NOT TRUE....Check out your cohort's "Time line reference" in an earlier post. Many things have been put into play.

Too much uninformed info.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> p.s. Most of the provisions of Obamacare haven't even gone into effect yet. Maybe your insurance company just decided on a whim that they want to make more money right now, so they raised their rates.


NOT TRUE....Check out your cohort's "Time line reference" in an earlier post. Many things have been put into play.

Too much uninformed info.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I truly believe name calling is juvenile...teatards? Really? That sounds like something right out of secondary school study hall!

The ACA was a vision of the Clinton Administration but the ACT itself was the result of the work of many and t he votes of our elected officials. You may not agree with it, you may not even like it but it is t he result of those we elected into office.

Does ACA begin to address all the shortcomings in our health care system? Not by a long shot. Our choices were few..continue with the current system that only served those who fell into certain income levels and certain age categories or do something to correct that.

I'm tired of the name calling on both sides of the fence. Are we not an educated society where bullying is frowned upon?

For most of my nearly 60 years of life I've benefited by having excellent health care coverage, though I cannot say the same for some of my family members, friends and neighbors.

Some of you say that you don't want to pay for others who are too lazy to pay for themselves...hello did you read about our economy "tanking"? Did you not hear of people with MBA's who lost their good paying jobs and were forced to work for barely minimum wage? Have you read about "wealthy" dead beat parents who DON'T pay their court ordered child support? Have you read about the scumbags who have bankrupted people with their investment scams? Sometimes they go to jail but what about their victims? What about people who lost living wage jobs because companies were rewarded by moving manufacturing operations to 3rd world countries? Are those the people you are talking about? How about t hose "sweetheart", union pension plans that are bankrupting cities like Chicago?

Your term Teatard is just another form of the school yard taunt "retard" and one that is immature and lacking in sensitivity, thank you for showing me your level of...maturity and intelligence. I'm sure the developmentally disabled community and their families agree.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

momeee said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > PS
> ...


Momee You make too much sense. And we haven't even touched on exceptions given to the Union plans, Nancy Pelosi's district, etc..

Once employees of small businesses decide they would rather pay the penalty than provide healthcare to their employees and give the employees $5000 to cover it many who voted for Obama will be crying a different tune . And will blame it on President BUSH.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Are you eligible for Medicare? This years monthly premium for Medicare is $104.90. And my prescription drug plan is $48.00 per month.

In my state Medicaid does not cost anything, but it has standards of income which must be met in order to qualify.I think WI must have a different system.



knovice knitter said:


> When I originally signed up for medicaid, it was $120/mo. That stayed the same for a year. Then I got a bill for $220. I called them to ask what was up and was told to pay it or drop out. And if I dropped out, I could not get back into the program as they were not taking any more. A month later it went up to $325 and has remained the same. Every month, I get the bill, and dread opening it for fear of seeing another hike. This all started when our new Governor was elected. His name is Scott Walker. Maybe you remember him last year during a heated recall election. His policies have made quite a national stir. Anyway, this health program is called Badger Care and is the medicaid program we have in Wisconsin. I believe Mr. Walker is trying to get rid of the program thru' attrition. As people drop out with the rising rates, no new people will be coming in and eventually, the program will disappear. I just keep paying by bleeding my meager savings and keeping my fingers crossed that the rates will stay the same and the program will be there if I need it. My own brother calls me a taker, not anyone here personally.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed

Have any of you actually sat down with a representative of your health care coverage company and discussed this issue? I have!

"Opting out" is not all that simple for employers, there will be penalties. Penalties that large employers will not be willing to incur.

How many of you have actually read the thousands of pages to this act? What would be your alternative? To allow children to die of entirely treatable disorders? To allow those who cannot afford high priced coverage to go without treatment? When it comes to contagious diseases we ALL suffer, when those who cannot afford to be treated walk among us.

A society should be measured on how it treats it's poor, it's elderly, it's youth and it's disabled. We've been getting "F's" for far too long.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing.
> How's about you all get a good nights sleep? Those of you who live where it's daylight might need a nap.
> I've been checking in with you on occasion, and you are all repeating yourselves, and making little if any head way.
> Actually some of it's starting to sound a bit off the beam.
> ...


What have you done recently to "make a diff" ???
Sleep well. Pleasant dreams.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


So Thumper you are saying it was okay for Bush to bail out the banks with no restrictions but when Obama does the same thing with restrictions to prevent the banks from screwing us over, he is wrong? Haters gonna hate, I guess. I cannot believe some of the unbelievably selfish and hateful things I have read in this thread. You guys realizing we (Americans) are the laughing stock of the rest of the world right?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

RUKknitting.......What exactly would you like to know? That was a pretty open ended question. Do you want to know if I give to my church, give to United way, Give for breast cancer research? I vote at every election that is held in my area. 
You can be snotty all you like. Now how about making some sense for a change?


RUKnitting said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > I think you guys are all getting a little punch drunk. Pretty much just repeating the same old thing.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I googled badger care and it much as I thought. It is not straight Medicaid. What KK is paying is a premium based on household income and family size.



RUKnitting said:


> Are you eligible for Medicare? This years monthly premium for Medicare is $104.90. And my prescription drug plan is $48.00 per month.
> 
> In my state Medicaid does not cost anything, but it has standards of income which must be met in order to qualify.I think WI must have a different system.





knovice knitter said:


> When I originally signed up for medicaid, it was $120/mo. That stayed the same for a year. Then I got a bill for $220. I called them to ask what was up and was told to pay it or drop out. And if I dropped out, I could not get back into the program as they were not taking any more. A month later it went up to $325 and has remained the same. Every month, I get the bill, and dread opening it for fear of seeing another hike. This all started when our new Governor was elected. His name is Scott Walker. Maybe you remember him last year during a heated recall election. His policies have made quite a national stir. Anyway, this health program is called Badger Care and is the medicaid program we have in Wisconsin. I believe Mr. Walker is trying to get rid of the program thru' attrition. As people drop out with the rising rates, no new people will be coming in and eventually, the program will disappear. I just keep paying by bleeding my meager savings and keeping my fingers crossed that the rates will stay the same and the program will be there if I need it. My own brother calls me a taker, not anyone here personally.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


What is your source? Then why statistically do Reps give much more $$$$$ to charity than dems? Is it because the Dems like to use other peoples $$$ for their causes whereas the Reps prefer to give directly to those causes they support?

It doesn't matter how much education you have, it's what you do with it that counts.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

ZENmama said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


As I stated earlier, I was not happy with Bush. I question why obama would resurrect and repeat a policy that failed the first time. It just makes me wonder.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed
> 
> Have any of you actually sat down with a representative of your health care coverage company and discussed this issue? I have!
> 
> ...


Bravo! According to our Dec. of Ind. our first inalienable right is to life, if we leave our poor, sick, and elderly to die, what does say about the rest of our "rights". All of you who think it's okay to turn your backs on the neediest among us should probably take a look at your own lives and see what is lacking that has hardened your hearts to your fellow man. Take a look at some news sources from other countries and see what they think of our "Mighty America", you may be surprised at the general opinion from around the world. Courier777 is right, at human decency, we fail.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

ZENmama said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed
> ...


Who said that we are turning our backs on the neediest among us? It's the large number of those who are not needy but are just plain lazy that many of object to.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


RUKnitting - I wonder who donates more time to charity, conservatives or liberals? Time is money in my opinion, in fact I would much rather help someone do something than just throw money at it. It's easy to throw money at something and then walk away from the problem. Getting in their and working with those in need lets people know that a real person cares enough to help. It's good for everyone, it brings joy, and should never be placed beneath someone else just because they have more money to donate.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks, but I am not the Arthur of the word "teatard" sorry! I do not have a definition to that made-up word as it appeared on this thread. I have just been making fun of it with art work!

It came from MartinW.



Nussa said:


> Janeway.....is your constant use of the word "teatard" an off shoot of the word retard, because if it is, it's an extremely offensive term. If not, would you explain what it REALLY means????
> 
> 
> Janeway said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

ZENmama said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


That's a great question. So, I did a quick google search. I scanned approximately three pages worth of returned websites and all but one, which the writer indicated was only an opinion unsubstatiated by any statistical support, stated that conservatives donated more money, time, and blood.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > knittingdragon said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

ZENmama said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


I have never seen a source for this so I cannot answer with any level of confidence. I am a big supporter with my time and my $$$ to charity. I agree with you. I always feel as if I am getting much more than the time I give. And many of the people I have worked with are smarter than those with more education. They have real wisdom.

See we can finds avenues of agreement even though politically we believe in different solutions to problems.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


It's difficult to find a source that leans neither right or left on this particular subject. As you noted there were sources saying conservatives donate more, however they are also conservative sources and the same went for the sites that say liberals donate more. I will keep researching, but I will say, I, at the very least am a liberal who donates any chance I can, and I would never dream of referring to our poor as lazy people who need to pay for their own healthcare or deal with it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Well said Momeee ! Couldn't agree with you more. You tell it like it is even though some may not want to hear the truth. And I think loss of Freedom is what I fear. And that can generate paranoia.



momeee said:


> Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...
> 
> My response got posted under someone else's
> so here it is :The difference is FREE CHOICE. In America we are FREE. Free to choose how to live almost every aspect of our lives. I do not want the govt.making decisions for me. If I want something, I want to be able to work for it, save for it, or not have it if I cannot afford it. If I am ambitious and can start a business with my resources, etc. the profits should be mine...not mine and everyone else's. if I can make a profit and people are willing to pay the price/ rate I set, that is because of MY and the customer's decision. If the price is too high, or better can be had at a lower price, the purchaser should be FREE to choose where to make a purchase. If consumers choose to not purchase my higher priced item, then I need to lower my price to be competitive, or go out of business. If I need to pay my employees appropriately, and meet the other costs of maintaining my business, my goods or services must be priced appropriately. If I can make a profit, it is mine. I took the risk and did all things necessary to be successful if my prices are too high the consumers will let it be known. The govt.has no right interfering in private enterprise.(currently the govt. cannot manage its own financial affairs). If I fail in my business venture due to MY poor decisions, it is not the govt.'s responsibility to bail me out. This is capitalism, and it is a good thing.
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


Thanks Thumper you must be well-educated.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed
> 
> Have any of you actually sat down with a representative of your health care coverage company and discussed this issue? I have!
> 
> ...


The employers can opt out by paying $2000.00 per employee. As a former employer I can tell you that is super cheap. We paid $6240 seven years ago for basic coverage for our employees. I do not know what it would be today. What a deal for the employer. And they will probably reimburse their employees a certain amount which we not be enough for the employee to purchase a policy.

From whom do we get the F's? Our public assistance to those in need is rather generous.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed
> ...


 Have you ever tried to live on that amount? And, here's the problem. People on welfare are also on Medicaid. So, we end up paying for their health care, which is often a higher cost because diet and other factors tend to produce a higher incidence of health problem. Or, because people on welfare usually don't have regular physicians, they end up in emergency rooms for minor illnesses - flue, for example - which is a much more expensive way to treat illnesses. Universal healthcare would spread out the costs because the pool would essentiall include everyone, thus reducing the total cost.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


I recently read that the real cost to the govt. to keep a person/family on welfare was around $60,000 a year. That seems very high and I wish I had copied the article as I don't remember the breakdown. I'm not suggesting that welfare recipients get handed $60,000, but somehow that is the amount that is expended when numerous programs come into play. Does anyone know more about this figure?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ahhh....so you aren't the author, which I already knew. So what you are saying is you will repeat any random word or phrase, whether you know what it means or not. How can we take serious someone who repeats made up rude sounding words because it's funny. Do you think someone who believes in the Tea party would think it's funny? 
As for your artwork. Do you do more than just type random signs on the keyboard, or are you really an artist of some sort? That is a serious question by the way.


Janeway said:


> Thanks, but I am not the Arthur of the word "teatard" sorry! I do not have a definition to that made-up word as it appeared on this thread. I have just been making fun of it with art work!
> 
> It came from MartinW.
> 
> ...


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

momee, I believe you are correct with the sum of 60,000. I also read that article.


momeee said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

@mommee - Any chance you could find your $60,000 "statistic" from a credible source not associated with the conservative right please? Here is your article I believe.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-60000-welfare-spentper-household-poverty_657889.html


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Ahhh....so you aren't the author, which I already knew. So what you are saying is you will repeat any random word or phrase, whether you know what it means or not. How can we take serious someone who repeats made up rude sounding words because it's funny. Do you think someone who believes in the Tea party would think it's funny?
> As for your artwork. Do you do more than just type random signs on the keyboard, or are you really an artist of some sort? That is a serious question by the way.
> 
> 
> ...


Could the real author of the word teatard give us the definition?
Janeway appeared to just be painting a picture of her interpretaion and she had some reversals but it didn't take away from the artistic merit of the picture. Her style recently is more cubist.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Ahhh....so you aren't the author, which I already knew. So what you are saying is you will repeat any random word or phrase, whether you know what it means or not. How can we take serious someone who repeats made up rude sounding words because it's funny. Do you think someone who believes in the Tea party would think it's funny?
> As for your artwork. Do you do more than just type random signs on the keyboard, or are you really an artist of some sort? That is a serious question by the way.
> 
> 
> ...


That makes more sense to me. What does everyone else think? I really do like it.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Ahhhhhh such pretty pictures.
Can I take some lessons? To view the creative mind at work is such a wonderful thing. You must be brilliant and well educated to be able to combine advanced math skills and a supreme level of creativity. I bet too that you donate your earnings to wondrous charities (my favorites are Wounded Warriors and Catholic Charities). What a gift


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Public assistance is quite generous? Really! Have you looked into what a single disabled person qualifies for? Let me tell you it isn't much. 

My cousin was disabled for most of her life and lived on a pittance. Were it not for food banks, community gardens and other charity, she wouldn't have made it. She wouldn't allow family members to give her money because she feared she would lose her meager "assistance" if it was found out..so we helped in other ways.

Perhaps some would call her "lazy", you try living in a wheelchair, depending on public transportation that provides one bus in the early morning for the disabled and one late at night, in an area where there are few opportunities for able bodied people let alone the disabled.

Please explain to me how the millions of children, who live in poverty in this country, are "lazy".

Generous? I hardly think so!

This isn't a Bush/Obama issue, this isn't a Republican/Democrat issue, it's a human issue. It's not about laziness. Millions of living wage jobs have gone overseas so that companies can increase profits. Please look at who is working minimum wage jobs, it's no longer just teenagers.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Since Obama took office there are 8.5 million less jobs, gone forever. Maybe if we had more people working, we would generate more tax revenue. Maybe if people that are fortunate to have some discretionary funds were not vilified by the Obama Administration and have their taxes increased, this would alleviate the terror that they feel about paying their bills and taxes with fewer funds.

Perhaps if Obama spent less time skeet shooting, and focus on the economy, we would be in better off financially as a country than we are now.

Please, the mantra of using the children is getting very old. They are not lazy, they have parents without good paying jobs.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

President Obama originally took office at the time of the biggest skid in the U.S. economy since the Depression. The President is certainly not responsible for the choices of American business to send jobs overseas, where wages AND working conditions are far inferior to American standards. The people you call "fortunate to have some discretionary funds" are not being vilified, they are simply being asked to pay a slightly higher tax rate on income over $500,000 - which should be enough to live on nicely, I think. If you look at actual information, instead of right wing websites, you will find that the President has taken fewer days of vacation than most presidents, certainly fewer days than the previous administration. And the comments about "using the children" are just plain offensive. The notion of visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children is heartless. Children do not have the resources to feed, clothe and house themselves. They are dependant on the adults, and punishing them for having less than functional parents by allowing them to live in misery is not the way I believe we should treat helpless infants.


off2knit said:


> Since Obama took office there are 8.5 million less jobs, gone forever. Maybe if we had more people working, we would generate more tax revenue. Maybe if people that are fortunate to have some discretionary funds were not vilified by the Obama Administration and have their taxes increased, this would alleviate the terror that they feel about paying their bills and taxes with fewer funds.
> 
> Perhaps if Obama spent less time skeet shooting, and focus on the economy, we would be in better off financially as a country than we are now.
> 
> Please, the mantra of using the children is getting very old. They are not lazy, they have parents without good paying jobs.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually, a child who is deprived has a great chance of growing up and being greatly successful. That experience can lead a child to do great things as an adult. It all depends on what that person is made of. I think more "entitled" children should experience a deprived childhood. Then maybe they would grow up with more positive character traits.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Public assistance is quite generous? Really! Have you looked into what a single disabled person qualifies for? Let me tell you it isn't much.
> 
> My cousin was disabled for most of her life and lived on a pittance. Were it not for food banks, community gardens and other charity, she wouldn't have made it. She wouldn't allow family members to give her money because she feared she would lose her meager "assistance" if it was found out..so we helped in other ways.
> 
> ...


Where, on earth, did you get the idea that any conservative would think that someone in a wheelchair was lazy? That you would say that indicates that the liberals are just NOT LISTENING. Yes, we as a society, should care for the elderly, the handicapped, and the orphaned children.

As for those working in fast food. These jobs were never meant to support families. The adults working those jobs are the high school dropouts, druggies, etc.

If they have a MBA and are working those jobs I would wonder why. Is it because of their crappy attitude at interviews that prevent them from getting a job in their career? Perhaps they won't take an entry level position because they see it as being beneath them.

Why is someone starting a family when they don't have the means to support them? Having a family is NOT A RIGHT. IT IS A RESPONSIBILITY.

I am not responsibile for others irresponsibility. That's one of the prices a citizen pays for their freedoms. That being rights to make their own choices. Choices have benefits as well as consequences. There are too many not adult enough in their behavior to accept the consequences. They just want benefits.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on, Thumper! I totally agree!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right! Joeysomma!


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

You say that you think we should support the elderly, handicapped people and orphans. So, children whose parents are less that responsible, should be allowed to starve on the streets?


joeysomma said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > Since Obama took office there are 8.5 million less jobs, gone forever. Maybe if we had more people working, we would generate more tax revenue. Maybe if people that are fortunate to have some discretionary funds were not vilified by the Obama Administration and have their taxes increased, this would alleviate the terror that they feel about paying their bills and taxes with fewer funds.
> ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No one is starving on the streets! The community helps.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> President Obama originally took office at the time of the biggest skid in the U.S. economy since the Depression. The President is certainly not responsible for the choices of American business to send jobs overseas, where wages AND working conditions are far inferior to American standards. The people you call "fortunate to have some discretionary funds" are not being vilified, they are simply being asked to pay a slightly higher tax rate on income over $500,000 - which should be enough to live on nicely, I think. If you look at actual information, instead of right wing websites, you will find that the President has taken fewer days of vacation than most presidents, certainly fewer days than the previous administration. And the comments about "using the children" are just plain offensive. The notion of visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children is heartless. Children do not have the resources to feed, clothe and house themselves. They are dependant on the adults, and punishing them for having less than functional parents by allowing them to live in misery is not the way I believe we should treat helpless infants.
> 
> 
> off2knit said:
> ...


I don't recall anyone saying the children are lazy. If an adult does not have a good paying job why are they having children. As I stated before, having children is not a right. If they truly cannot support the children they are having then they need to make the hard choice of putting the child first. That means giving them up for adoption to a family that can support them.

This opinion of mine comes from years of watching how our society has been degraded by so many single women having children. Of seeing the results of their inability to raise them so that they become responsible adults who actually contribute to society instead of continuing the cycle of taking from it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

No, these parents should put the child first and give them up to someone who can take care of them.



pardoquilts said:


> You say that you think we should support the elderly, handicapped people and orphans. So, children whose parents are less that responsible, should be allowed to starve on the streets?
> 
> 
> joeysomma said:
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

What world are you living in? The community doesn't always help! The grandmother I know (and I do know her), who is caring for eight children, needs every bit of assistance she can get. She certainly can't work outside their home. With the "generous" public support she receives she - and her grandchildren - are constantly on the edge of financial disaster. She isn't lazy, the children work hard in school, they certainly don't have a big screen TV. So, should she give these children to someone else to raise? Separate them, since nobody is likely to adopt all eight? She must already be terrified to think of what happens to them if she gets seriously ill. Your notion of how things work in this society is a rosy picture - but naive.


Lukelucy said:


> No one is starving on the streets! The community helps.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> What world are you living in? The community doesn't always help! The grandmother I know (and I do know her), who is caring for eight children, needs every bit of assistance she can get. She certainly can't work outside their home. With the "generous" public support she receives she - and her grandchildren - are constantly on the edge of financial disaster. She isn't lazy, the children work hard in school, they certainly don't have a big screen TV. So, should she give these children to someone else to raise? Separate them, since nobody is likely to adopt all eight? She must already be terrified to think of what happens to them if she gets seriously ill. Your notion of how things work in this society is a rosy picture - but naive.
> 
> 
> Lukelucy said:
> ...


I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

And why can't people be more responsible and not have so many children.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have news for some of you. It's too late to say that the lazy, irresponsible parents shouldn't have children. The children are already here! Can't you see that despite the efforts of individuals, charities, churches, etc. we STILL have people who don't have enough money or care? You can't just blame the poor for being poor!! What world are some of you living in? Where is your moral compass?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?[/quote]

What's the difference where the parents are if she's responsible for them? If the parents are dead are the children more deserving than if they're dope addicts? Maybe those lazy, good-for-nothing parents just abandoned them---should they still be taken care of?
It's time for you people to take your blinders off, but I guess that would require some effort and acknowledgement of facts.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And why can't people be more responsible and not have so many children.


There are religeous reasons, not educated, can't afford birth control so many reasons. 
But please do not let us educate people about SEX. Abstinence only. Don't let our children know about sex.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Public assistance is quite generous? Really! Have you looked into what a single disabled person qualifies for? Let me tell you it isn't much.
> 
> My cousin was disabled for most of her life and lived on a pittance. Were it not for food banks, community gardens and other charity, she wouldn't have made it. She wouldn't allow family members to give her money because she feared she would lose her meager "assistance" if it was found out..so we helped in other ways.
> 
> ...


Well said. Nice to hear a voice of reason.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> President Obama originally took office at the time of the biggest skid in the U.S. economy since the Depression. The President is certainly not responsible for the choices of American business to send jobs overseas, where wages AND working conditions are far inferior to American standards. The people you call "fortunate to have some discretionary funds" are not being vilified, they are simply being asked to pay a slightly higher tax rate on income over $500,000 - which should be enough to live on nicely, I think. If you look at actual information, instead of right wing websites, you will find that the President has taken fewer days of vacation than most presidents, certainly fewer days than the previous administration. And the comments about "using the children" are just plain offensive. The notion of visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children is heartless. Children do not have the resources to feed, clothe and house themselves. They are dependant on the adults, and punishing them for having less than functional parents by allowing them to live in misery is not the way I believe we should treat helpless infants.
> 
> 
> off2knit said:
> ...


Pardouilts...very thoughtful and of course rightm howeer you a talking to people who do not want to know the truth. They would rather believe what the right wing tells them. They would not reccognize the truth if it came from JC himself.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> What world are you living in? The community doesn't always help! The grandmother I know (and I do know her), who is caring for eight children, needs every bit of assistance she can get. She certainly can't work outside their home. With the "generous" public support she receives she - and her grandchildren - are constantly on the edge of financial disaster. She isn't lazy, the children work hard in school, they certainly don't have a big screen TV. So, should she give these children to someone else to raise? Separate them, since nobody is likely to adopt all eight? She must already be terrified to think of what happens to them if she gets seriously ill. Your notion of how things work in this society is a rosy picture - but naive.
> 
> 
> Lukelucy said:
> ...


Haee you seen the stats on homeless families in this coujtry, A community an only do so much


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

AL, I do have a moral compass and it leads me right back to the parents of the children.. I know what it is like to put your head and heart around the fact that your parents don't care about you. To start with, the sperm donor and the rent a womb, if alive, needs to be arrested for child neglect, put in work release and forced to pay child support for their children. Case by case will differ, but the bottom line is only death or a major handicap should keep you from supporting your children.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

What does it matter where the parents are? They aren't in the picture - the children are!


thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > What world are you living in? The community doesn't always help! The grandmother I know (and I do know her), who is caring for eight children, needs every bit of assistance she can get. She certainly can't work outside their home. With the "generous" public support she receives she - and her grandchildren - are constantly on the edge of financial disaster. She isn't lazy, the children work hard in school, they certainly don't have a big screen TV. So, should she give these children to someone else to raise? Separate them, since nobody is likely to adopt all eight? She must already be terrified to think of what happens to them if she gets seriously ill. Your notion of how things work in this society is a rosy picture - but naive.
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

@ joeysomma- thanks for the response. I hadn't kept any specific info regarding my source. There is no doubt that there are tremendously high costs in administering any program - all the hidden costs that we never see or hear about and - not accounting for inefficiency... So when more and better entitlements are recommended for able-bodied persons, my suspicion is that some liberals don't realize the real cost.
I also must agree with a previous post that many recipients live in terrible poverty. I'd LOVE to see our govt. officials, who retire with healthy pensions and benefits, try to live on what our handicapped and disabled receive.( I'm sure I've not mentioned all the groups who are deserving, but I'm not lumping all recipients into the taker group.)



joeysomma said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > @mommee - Any chance you could find your $60,000 "statistic" from a credible source not associated with the conservative right please? Here is your article I believe.
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


Sorry, Thumper, I didn't mean to confuse you. I meant that I hope your doctor's optimistic comments are correct. I began to say that my only experience with government-run agencies was with the P.O., and it is having serious problems. Then I remembered our visits to set up SS and Medicare, which went quite smoothly. You asked who was efficient. I didn't get the names of the people with whom we spoke. They were employees, and they were knowledgeable and efficient. I hope I've clarified those points for you.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

It also appears that charitable giving has decreased which makes sense as the unemployment is up. Some who are working are making less. Perhaps some are trying to save for their rainy day. Food pantries are reporting bare shelves, and other charities (in my area) say they aren't getting the donations - whether goods or money - that they have in the past. With increased taxes, health insurance costs,well, practically everything costs more, more are unable to be as generous as previously.



off2knit said:


> Since Obama took office there are 8.5 million less jobs, gone forever. Maybe if we had more people working, we would generate more tax revenue. Maybe if people that are fortunate to have some discretionary funds were not vilified by the Obama Administration and have their taxes increased, this would alleviate the terror that they feel about paying their bills and taxes with fewer funds.
> 
> Perhaps if Obama spent less time skeet shooting, and focus on the economy, we would be in better off financially as a country than we are now.
> 
> Please, the mantra of using the children is getting very old. They are not lazy, they have parents without good paying jobs.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nissan,

I was just simply breaking the ice about such a "horrible" name for anyone which ever party the author intended!

No nastiness intended! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

The benefits for the unmarried person are far greater than you listed, and I'm not sure I know it all- with each new child the monthly amount the mom gets is increased across the board; free and reduced lunch at school (in some areas)has translated into free and reduced breakfast, lunch, snacks, and sometimes take home dinner, all of which absolves the parent from the responsibility of preparing meals for the children, i.e., more discretionary money for herself. Not mentioned is that is some areas the recipient gets free furniture and appliances. Some of the boyfriends are working and contribute - I've known of numerous who managed to take their kids to Disney on both school vacations. I've also know families where the mom claims she can't 'deal' with all the kids and somehow the kids get put into Foster Care...often with a family member or friend.The govt. then contributes at a higher rate, along with child care and the Foster mom has been known to share the money with the mom who often stays in the picture. There are so many ways the system gets scammed. Routinely, when I'm going through my grocery store or WalMart's check-out, the cashiers are venting about the abuses they see and hear. So many people on here have kind hearts and I don't think they are aware of all the abuse of a system that is meant to be a temporary help.
One way to try to get unnamed fathers financially responsible is to take DNA at birth.Many fathers already have DNA in the system...just a thought.


joeysomma said:


> Very few are married, an unmarried mother can receive more assistance. Quite often they live together, the girl works, sometimes many low paying jobs in one year. Just enough to get the most in earned income tax credit. She also may receive health care, food stamps, rent assistance, energy assistance, and child care. Quite often the man in her life is living off of her income and benefits and not paying for the children he fathered. I am not surprised to see these people having smart phones, large flat screen HD TV's, cable TV and more.
> 
> I personally see this happening. Any one that does this is one to many.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have news for some of you. It's too late to say that the lazy, irresponsible parents shouldn't have children. The children are already here! Can't you see that despite the efforts of individuals, charities, churches, etc. we STILL have people who don't have enough money or care? You can't just blame the poor for being poor!! What world are some of you living in? Where is your moral compass?


I don't, for a minute, believe that this is in despite of efforts. It's because of efforts that are too liberal that we have created tihs problem. It's THEIR lack of moral compass. NOT MINE!


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > President Obama originally took office at the time of the biggest skid in the U.S. economy since the Depression. The President is certainly not responsible for the choices of American business to send jobs overseas, where wages AND working conditions are far inferior to American standards. The people you call "fortunate to have some discretionary funds" are not being vilified, they are simply being asked to pay a slightly higher tax rate on income over $500,000 - which should be enough to live on nicely, I think. If you look at actual information, instead of right wing websites, you will find that the President has taken fewer days of vacation than most presidents, certainly fewer days than the previous administration. And the comments about "using the children" are just plain offensive. The notion of visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children is heartless. Children do not have the resources to feed, clothe and house themselves. They are dependant on the adults, and punishing them for having less than functional parents by allowing them to live in misery is not the way I believe we should treat helpless infants.
> ...


I am well aware of the _truth_. It is you that has the blinders on. Most of those that are _in need_ are not those that JC, himself, talked about. Lack of morality on their part, lack of self-control on their part, lack of personal responsibility on their part, is not my responsibility. I've never seen anything in the Bible regarding single motherhood (other than widowed) as a virtue. Everything I've read points to that as being a LACK virtue.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I don't recall anyone saying the children are lazy. If an adult does not have a good paying job why are they having children. As I stated before, having children is not a right. If they truly cannot support the children they are having then they need to make the hard choice of putting the child first. That means giving them up for adoption to a family that can support them.

This opinion of mine comes from years of watching how our society has been degraded by so many single women having children. Of seeing the results of their inability to raise them so that they become responsible adults who actually contribute to society instead of continuing the cycle of taking from it.[/quote]

There is no question that the issue of neglected children is a societal problem. Adoption is a great solution, but very few single mothers give up their babies now. The way I see it is, 1, a matter of responsibility and 2, a matter of holding the parents responsible once the children are here. We help underage girls who are pregnant by setting her up in an apartment (with everything she needs) even though she isn't emotionally prepared for parenthood. When she fails, the State removes the child(ren). Enter Foster care - more $$$$. With all the support programs (some mandatory) available to those who would, could, should, use them, some get on their feet, continue their education and are success stories. Unfortunately, too many are not successful for a number of reasons- drugs, emotionally incapable, in and out of bad relationships, too many intervening factors to list, etc. But what is the constant is that the child(ren) are bounced in and out of their mom's life because "reunification" is always the goal. After a few tries of reunification it should be obvious that the child(ren)are the victims. When the kids are bounced back and forth between parents an Foster Care - some group home they often lack the love and security they need and deserve. They never have a chance to bond or to learn how to be parents themselves. (Not a criticism of Foster Parents as I know MANY wonderful, exemplary ones...) At this point the parental custody should be legally terminated...MOST times it isn't, and the cycle is repeated until the child(ren) are much older and legal custody is terminated, and the child(ren) are available for adoption. Now our system is LOADED with available kids, cute kids, who never get adopted and 'age-out' at age 18. Why do you think they are not adopted? Lots of reasons - many people will only accept a baby; very often these kids have been neglected, abused, ignored and are not considered desirable. In MA, WBZ TV had a program called "Wednesday's Child" which profiled kids in Foster Care. It was heartbreaking seeing this adorable youngsters who were trying so hard to 'sell' themselves. The program was very successful but still too many kids are left behind.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.


And who are you to judge how much someone deserves with the product of their labors? Even if that labor is the product of their intellect who are you to determine how much they should get to keep? And you advocate that their earnings should go to someone who didn't do a thing, other than have sex pretty much indescriminately. Wow...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I have news for some of you. It's too late to say that the lazy, irresponsible parents shouldn't have children. The children are already here! Can't you see that despite the efforts of individuals, charities, churches, etc. we STILL have people who don't have enough money or care? You can't just blame the poor for being poor!! What world are some of you living in? Where is your moral compass?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Most people I know didn't or won't have kids until they can care for them. Yes, I know, accidents happen... There are circumstances (job-loss, illness, emergencies, etc.)where that becomes impossible and that is where the govt. should provide temporary help...a safety net, not generational aid.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

grandmaof7 said:


> I thought ObamaCare was free! Thanks everyone who voted for him!!!!


Surely that's the dreaded socialised medicine? Heaven forbid. I'm told that the US doesn't want it, so carry on paying. I receive free treatment from the NHS for my fibromyalgia and hypermobility - it hasn't worked so far, but it hasn't cost me more than I paid through tax and National Insurance when I worked. It is a system that was created to help anyone at no charge "at the point of care", no matter who they were.

The coalition government we have now is hell-bent on destroying the finest achievement our country has ever managed, and the vultures from the American health insurance companies are circling.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.


Headstart has been determined to have little lasting impact. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/node/8375


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Exactly! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Actually, a child who is deprived has a great chance of growing up and being greatly successful. That experience can lead a child to do great things as an adult. It all depends on what that person is made of. I think more "entitled" children should experience a deprived childhood. Then maybe they would grow up with more positive character traits.


You are correct in thinking kids can improve their lives if they want as a friend told me about a boy who came from such a poor family that his mother did not leave the house because she did not have shoes to wear, but kids wore shoes and clean clothing with their one change of clothing.

The mother washed their clothing down in the creek with home-made soap made from the wood stove ashes and old grease.

Short story--the son is working as one of Pres. Clinton attorney's in Washington. His mother died last year of stomach cancer. His dad still lives on the homestead, but son paid to put in modern updates with a bathroom/running water before his mom passed. Bless her heart she thought she was rich!

The boy attended college on Pell grants as well as the girl who teaches at a university.

This family was not on Welfare, but dad worked odd jobs and hunted/fished and grew veggies in the large garden. They heated with wood and cooked with grandma's wood cook stove or outside in summer. Three was no electricity on the property.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.


thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Ahhhhhh such pretty pictures.
> Can I take some lessons? To view the creative mind at work is such a wonderful thing. You must be brilliant and well educated to be able to combine advanced math skills and a supreme level of creativity. I bet too that you donate your earnings to wondrous charities (my favorites are Wounded Warriors and Catholic Charities). What a gift


Thank you for the kind words, but not smarter than anyone else just enjoy life. I would donate any proceeds to charity.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.


Absolutely, but you don't find many who will agree on this forum, you wild-eyed communist. :evil: :thumbup:


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

And tell me how that works in the middle of an urban area! My own husband was orphaned by the time he was 8 and taken in by family. His childhood was extremely difficult. His spending money was earned from a young age by being given an acre of land, where he grew tomacco, and was responsible for planting, tending, harvesting and selling it. He is what you might consider successful - a PhD in Physics, and a Senior Scientist at a national laboratory. He is also one of the most generous people I know, and believes we should help when we possibly can. Some people are made small in spirit by difficulty - as some folks in this conversation seem to be - and some have their spirits made more generous. The bible does not say that we should only help married women! It says we should care for the poor and the downtrodden. It does not say we should judge them - in fact, just the opposite. Fine followers of that book some folks are!


Janeway said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, a child who is deprived has a great chance of growing up and being greatly successful. That experience can lead a child to do great things as an adult. It all depends on what that person is made of. I think more "entitled" children should experience a deprived childhood. Then maybe they would grow up with more positive character traits.
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Yup = but then, I live in the President's neighborhood, where we know what kind of suspicious people reside 


aw9358 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I just found this on my FB page. It is amazing.Hope you can see the pix.
New Jerusalem Orphanage is a vibrant shipping container home for South African kids - http://su.pr/1AHYA5
I cannot copy and past the picture.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

You do realize that the published compensation package is not just their salary, don't you? Much of the dollar signs that you envy so much are stock options. The value of the stock options are nothing more that a representation of the stock worth for *that day*.

Be that as it may be, you can thank Bill Clinton for the stock option benefit. A law that he tried to put into effect to limit how much CEOs earned backfired. Imagine that.

You're not advocating that you take away all their money? How magnanimous of you! How much do you 'feel' they should be allowed to keep?

You do realize that Mr. Buffet is fighting $1 Billion dollars in back-taxes owed, don't you? If he thinks he should be giving more why doesn't he just write the check and be done with it?



pardoquilts said:


> Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> ...


Now, now, name calling is not allowed--disagree if you must but leave out the bad names. We respectfully disagree but part as friends!

You need a picture! So here it is! [£¥^*+=%#~<???>????]


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

What a person EARNS is his. If a private company, it is the owners right to determine his employees salaries. If it is publicly owned, then the stockholders decide. Now observers who think they earn too much. (What about our athletes' salaries? Perhaps people should be paid based on their contribution to the good of the world...who judges? Exactly...) Until we are under a dictator's rule, Communist or other it is not right or fair to tax anyone at higher rates- that would be called a PENALTY. The tax code should be corrected if that is the problem. I'd advocate for a flat tax with few exceptions. Higher earners already pay more than low earners.



pardoquilts said:


> Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You do realize that the published compensation package is not just their salary, don't you? Much of the dollar signs that you envy so much are stock options. The value of the stock options are nothing more that a representation of the stock worth for *that day*.
> 
> Be that as it may be, you can thank Bill Clinton for the stock option benefit. A law that he tried to put into effect to limit how much CEOs earned backfired. Imagine that.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: We're definitley on the same page.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

It matters to me if you are holding your hand out to me to support them. And yes, if I'm paying the tab, I get to judge.



pardoquilts said:


> What does it matter where the parents are? They aren't in the picture - the children are!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> ...


The rich need their tax breaks so they can continue to create jobs. Why do you want to punish them by taxing them at a higher rate? If it wasn't for our super wealthy corporate CEO's our economy would be in the tank..........oh excuse me, our economy is in the tank...sorry I have to rethink this


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Yes, the rich are creating so many jobs with their wealth! Why, there's just a glut of jobs! Those wealthy job-creators just can't find enough people to fill the positions they've created!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

People are scared now and not offerning jobs. They are scaling back. You cannot blame them!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People are scared now and not offerning jobs. They are scaling back. You cannot blame them!


How about 2 years ago? Are you really so naive to believe that the wealthy use their money to create jobs? If that were the case, we'd always have plenty of jobs, right?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, that is not right. Do the poor create jobs???? Noooooo.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, that is not right. Do the poor create jobs???? Noooooo.


But neither do the rich is the point--otherwise there would be jobs.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

As I jus t wrote, people are not creating jobs because of the FEAR of the economy tanking out. That is why. They will in time. This economy has been turned upside down. People are cutting back everywhere. So, don't blame the "rich" companies, CEO's or whatever.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People are scared now and not offerning jobs. They are scaling back. You cannot blame them!


And they are holding off in anticipation of fears of other taxes, penalties, and their cost for health care.

The fact is that most jobs are created in the private sector. Look at the failures on Obama's 1st term with his stimulus money and 'shovel-ready jobs'. The stimulus money was squandered and awarded to some of his cronies who declared bankruptcy, and there never were shovel ready jobs.
American consumers want more for less. The govt. has historically found ways to increase taxes on businesses - please don't rant on about govt. subsidies- there's a need for those also- so in order to keep prices low many jobs went overseas. Do I like it? I try to only buy American made... No, of course not. But it was legal.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > No, that is not right. Do the poor create jobs???? Noooooo.
> ...


That's a very naïve statement. If you had a company would you hire someone just because you had money in the bank but were unsure what your tax burden or other financial burden might be the next year? It is for precisely this reason that companies do projections and planning. Or would you feel better if they hired people, just for the sake of making you feel all warm and fuzzy, but then went bankrupt months later and ALL of their employees were out of a job?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It matters to me if you are holding your hand out to me to support them. And yes, if I'm paying the tab, I get to judge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and I prefer giving to the charities of MY choice, not the govt.'s.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Good job, Thumper. You said it - and that is the way it is.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on Momee. I do not want the government tell me where to put my money.

If I want to give to the poor, I will give in my own community where I know where it is going.


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

You can still watch the video of Obama laughing at the American People,"The Shovel Ready" jobs that a trillion of our money was used appeared to be funny to him and the job council. Will you are at it look up how much the Solyndra CEO's were paid after our monies were wasted on that. Print, Waste and Blame.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lukka said:


> You can still watch the video of Obama laughing at the American People,"The Shovel Ready" jobs that a trillion of our money was used appeared to be funny to him and the job council. Will you are at it look up how much the Solyndra CEO's were paid after our monies were wasted on that. Print, Waste and Blame.


And I just love how the ex-CEO of Solyndra donated $53,500 of our money to obama's re-election campaign.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right on Momee. I do not want the government tell me where to put my money.
> 
> If I want to give to the poor, I will give in my own community where I know where it is going.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lukka said:
> 
> 
> > You can still watch the video of Obama laughing at the American People,"The Shovel Ready" jobs that a trillion of our money was used appeared to be funny to him and the job council. Will you are at it look up how much the Solyndra CEO's were paid after our monies were wasted on that. Print, Waste and Blame.
> ...


I kept thinking that there must be something illegal going on there....


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > lukka said:
> ...


You and me both.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Washington (AP) The U.S. job market is proving sturdier than expected at a time when the economy is under pressure from Washington gridlock and the threat of government spending cuts.

The Labor Dept. estimated job gains for the two months of 2012 - a period when the economy was being threatened by the fiscal cliff - rose from 161,000 to 274,000 for Nov. and from 155,000 to 196,000 for Dec.

The monthly job gains are derived from a separate survey of employers.
The hiring picture over the past two years also looked stronger after the dept. annual revisions. The revisions showed that employers added and average of roughly 180,000 jobs a month in 2012 and 2011. That was up from previous estimates of about 150,000.

The unemployment rate sets at 7.9 as of Feb. 2, 2013.



off2knit said:


> Since Obama took office there are 8.5 million less jobs, gone forever. Maybe if we had more people working, we would generate more tax revenue. Maybe if people that are fortunate to have some discretionary funds were not vilified by the Obama Administration and have their taxes increased, this would alleviate the terror that they feel about paying their bills and taxes with fewer funds.
> 
> Perhaps if Obama spent less time skeet shooting, and focus on the economy, we would be in better off financially as a country than we are now.
> 
> Please, the mantra of using the children is getting very old. They are not lazy, they have parents without good paying jobs.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

"That's what you get for thinking"....... Just a saying I heard once. Unfortunately, your THINKING means and does squat. Can't accuse anyone of doing something illegal unless you have proof. Just all hearsay.



momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > lukka said:
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes.
> ...


Can we stop all the drama? No one is saying that those that cannot help themselves shouldn't receive help. Either from the government or from the private sector. It's the ones that are abusing the system that we are talking about. The ones that CAN help themselves, but choose not to, therefore flood the system so those that NEED the help can't get it.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

No. I just turned 62. I lost my job (forklift driver) when I was 58. I worked 12 hour shifts that flipped from day shifts to night shifts every four days. It took a toll, but I did it and kept up for seventeen years. Now I know that my body cannot do that again and I had to find another line of work...took some refresher computer courses etc. and worked diligently to find work. No one wants an older worker with no experience in the modern office. I have to wait 3 more years before I can get medicare and at the end of March I will be getting Social Security and wonder if I will still be able to get Medicaid. I doubt it. So perhaps I will be one of those who will just die if I can't find affordable insurance. I have a pre-existing condition, but so far it hasn't cost the tax payers anything. It is just something that my doctor and I are keeping an eye on.


RUKnitting said:


> Are you eligible for Medicare? This years monthly premium for Medicare is $104.90. And my prescription drug plan is $48.00 per month.
> 
> In my state Medicaid does not cost anything, but it has standards of income which must be met in order to qualify.I think WI must have a different system.
> 
> ...


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

family size, yes. my household income is zero.


thumper5316 said:


> I googled badger care and it much as I thought. It is not straight Medicaid. What KK is paying is a premium based on household income and family size.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


This sounds like a reasonable approach until one realizes that it's problematic to separate those that can't and those that won't. There will always be abuses that can't be "caught" because we don't have the means to police everything. Besides, if someone is dying from a horrible disease and has no means to seek treatment do we really want to say, "just die?"


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

GOODLUCK to you knovice, Sounds like you did all the right things to try to get back into the workforce, I hope your health stays well for many years to come. I have quite a few years before I need to make the S.S. and medicare decisions and I am healthy,but I can understand the plight of many.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm really shocked to read that so many of you think that people working minimum wage jobs are drops out or drug addicts and the word "druggie" has come up far too often in this thread.

Grandparents raise their grandchildren for many reasons. Are you going to blame those grandchildren for that?

EMPLOYERS do pre employment drug screening and YES even for minimum wage jobs! How do I know this? I'm a courier and I pick up those drug screening tests every single day, in the course of my day!

Children do not get to choose which level of income family they will be born into! Many parents who were earning a living wage, lost those jobs. There are many reasons why children live in poverty. To accuse their parents of being lazy or drug addicts is really out of line. Also it's not just fathers who are deadbeats, there's a share of mothers out there who have walked away from their children and never contributed to the support of those children.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

ZENmama said:


> Bravo! According to our Dec. of Ind. our first inalienable right is to life, if we leave our poor, sick, and elderly to die, what does say about the rest of our "rights". All of you who think it's okay to turn your backs on the neediest among us should probably take a look at your own lives and see what is lacking that has hardened your hearts to your fellow man. Take a look at some news sources from other countries and see what they think of our "Mighty America", you may be surprised at the general opinion from around the world. Courier777 is right, at human decency, we fail.


Enough with the drama. No one is saying it's okay to turn our back on the neediest citizens. We are objecting to the ones that abuse the system because they don't want to help themselves, they prefer to get it for free (to them anyway).

I personally don't care what other countries think of Americans and have read many opinions on how they view us. They know that we are usually the first to respond to their disasters with food, equipment and money. We are a very decent and generous people. They would certainly change their tune if we chose not to offer help in any form, wouldn't they?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Well stated

Just got home and had a chat with my friend's husband about Obama and the skeet shooting photo.

TWO PROBLEMS WITH THE PHOTO:

I have never seen a person shoot skeet with the rifle parallel with the ground. For those clueless about what I mean, when skeet shooting, the clay disks are thrown high into the air to simulate shooting fowl. Birds fly high in the air not eye level like in target practice.

Obama is left handed, there is no way he would hold the gun with his non dominant hand. He is shooting right handed, and even if he golfed left handed, shooting right handed would be too difficult because if you are left handed you are 'left eyed'. Meaning he would not be using his dominant eye to site the target, and compound that with using his non dominant hand........................one must conclude PHOTO OP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm going to totally disagree with you on the photo of President Obama shooting skeet! Not all people are eye dominant the same as they are hand dominant.

My son went to the Olympics in 2000, a shooter. He is left handed but right eye dominant. You shoot with the dominant eye not hand! I am right handed but left eye dominant, I shoot left handed. Talk to any high ranking shooter or certified rifle/pistol coach, this is elementary.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I am a left-handed person who does many things with the opposite hand. I don't shoot, but if handed a gun I would place it in my right hand. Throw right-handed, golf left-handed, iron right handed, cut right-handed, bowl right-handed, write and eat left-handed, etc.
I had a conversation with my husband about the photo. I didn't even think it looked like Obama, but he disagreed. I wonder how "op" that photo op is?


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Thank you. My chin is up, but my budget is down.


lukka said:


> GOODLUCK to you knovice, Sounds like you did all the right things to try to get back into the workforce, I hope your health stays well for many years to come. I have quite a few years before I need to make the S.S. and medicare decisions and I am healthy,but I can understand the plight of many.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?


What's the difference where the parents are if she's responsible for them? If the parents are dead are the children more deserving than if they're dope addicts? Maybe those lazy, good-for-nothing parents just abandoned them---should they still be taken care of?
It's time for you people to take your blinders off, but I guess that would require some effort and acknowledgement of facts.[/quote]

It does make a difference where the parents are. If they are not in jail, seriously ill or dead, then they should be raising their children. If available, then at the very least they should be in the children's lives providing for them in any way they can. This grandmother is one side of the family tree. What of the other grandparent(s)? They also have a responsibility to these children. It's time for "you people" to take your blinders off as well.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

soloweygirl, I agree with you completely. Furthermore it's really nobody's business as to why the children are being raised by a grandmother!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Well your son is so special about being so ambidextrous and ambieyed

Still does not explain if a person skeet shoots all the time, why is he shooting at a ground level target instead of practicing his tracking and shooting at a high up moving target? If he target shoots, then be transparent about it, don't lie about it.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Well stated
> 
> Just got home and had a chat with my friend's husband about Obama and the skeet shooting photo.
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?
> ...


It does make a difference where the parents are. If they are not in jail, seriously ill or dead, then they should be raising their children. If available, then at the very least they should be in the children's lives providing for them in any way they can. This grandmother is one side of the family tree. What of the other grandparent(s)? They also have a responsibility to these children. It's time for "you people" to take your blinders off as well.[/quote]

Of course parents have a responsibility to their children. It's just that it shouldn't make a difference as far as how the children themselves are taken care of. There are too many cases where we can't really care what the situation is in a time of need---for the parents, the children, or the grandmother. When someone needs help, they need help. That's all I'm saying. Yes, it's awful that some parents aren't taking care of their children, but the children cannot be penalized for that. There are problems in many, many families and those of us who are in secure marriages or households can't always picture how some people live. I believe the number of needy families is very, very high, and it's difficult to comprehend. I really do believe WE ALL have blinders on when it comes to the poor/needy. And it's a problem we as a nation haven't dealt adequately with.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?
> ...


It does make a difference where the parents are. If they are not in jail, seriously ill or dead, then they should be raising their children. If available, then at the very least they should be in the children's lives providing for them in any way they can. This grandmother is one side of the family tree. What of the other grandparent(s)? They also have a responsibility to these children. It's time for "you people" to take your blinders off as well.[/quote]

I think we're getting confused at who wrote what---at least I am.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770, I don't think soloweygirl is on they same side of the issue you are. alcameron is the author of the first paragraph which addresses why should there be a difference. soloweygirl is the author of the second paragraph which addresses why she thinks there is a difference as to where the parents are. soloweygirl is of a differing opinion than alcameron.



courier770 said:


> soloweygirl, I agree with you completely. Furthermore it's really nobody's business as to why the children are being raised by a grandmother!





alcameron said:


> What's the difference where the parents are if she's responsible for them? If the parents are dead are the children more deserving than if they're dope addicts? Maybe those lazy, good-for-nothing parents just abandoned them---should they still be taken care of?
> It's time for you people to take your blinders off, but I guess that would require some effort and acknowledgement of facts.





soloweygirl said:


> It does make a difference where the parents are. If they are not in jail, seriously ill or dead, then they should be raising their children. If available, then at the very least they should be in the children's lives providing for them in any way they can. This grandmother is one side of the family tree. What of the other grandparent(s)? They also have a responsibility to these children. It's time for "you people" to take your blinders off as well.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Your comment about my son being "so special" was uncalled for! Many shooters who are left handed but right eye dominant shoot right handed and vice versa. 

What IS President Obama shooting at? Who knows and who really cares. Competitive shooters often take practice shots and if he was using a shot gun he isn't familiar with I'd EXPECT him to take a practice shot or two. Additionally just because he was photographed shooting skeet, doesn't mean he's particularly good at it.

I've been involved in competitive, target shooting for many years, it's a sport that is enjoyed by conservatives and liberals alike.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> 
> How nice of you to allow them to have some money. Warren Buffet is/was not being taxed at the same rate as his secretary because he was not earning a salary, she was therefore taxed at a higher rate. I'm surprised he doesn't know the difference. Who are you to say that the rich don't NEED anything. This falls under the American dream. Making money is the dream. Being able to live the way you want and buy what you want is all apart of this dream. The money they have might be beyond the average person's comprehension, but it is also available to them to go after. Why should they be penalized because they are successful? It's all fine and dandy for the President and
> you to claim that the rich should pay their fair share, at least have the guts to state what that "fair share" is. The 1% can pay all of the taxes and it will run the country for, at best, only a few weeks. Then what? Who will you go after next?, and so on and so on.....


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## Nanna B (Jan 26, 2013)

Hotpot said:


> Thank God for the NHS


Hear hear. We don't realise how lucky we are.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


It's not problematic. It can be done, it's just that no one wants to do it. No one wants to be responsible for doing a job that absolutely must be done in order for the system to function properly.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


We are constantly being told we can't judge. That being said if we would bring back benevolence to the community level it would be better administered, fewer people falling through cracks, and the abusers booted off.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> aw9358 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


I often feel that the extremely rich surely have more money than they can ever use - while others have so little. It seems wrong. On the other hand, should anyone really have to give OVER HALF of what he/she earns to the government? That seems wrong, too. Over half - it just isn't right.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > aw9358 said:
> ...


Many of the extremely rich are philanthropists who donate a large amount of money to causes of their choosing. Most often them also benefit with tax breaks for doing so. Shame on them!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Charitable contributions (to non profit organizations) are tax deductible for ALL, not just the wealthy.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Charitable contributions (to non profit organizations) are tax deductible for ALL, not just the wealthy.


You completely skirted my point.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

No I didn't. Charitable contributions are tax deductible for everyone, not just the wealthy. I make charitable contributions and I take my donations off of my taxes. Most people (regardless of wealth) support charities they hold dear to their hearts with the purpose of helping others and NOT for the tax deduction.

Any tax expert will tell you that "buying a tax deduction is never worth it".


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> No I didn't. Charitable contributions are tax deductible for everyone, not just the wealthy. I make charitable contributions and I take my donations off of my taxes. Most people (regardless of wealth) support charities they hold dear to their hearts with the purpose of helping others and NOT for the tax deduction.
> 
> Any tax expert will tell you that "buying a tax deduction is never worth it".


Some would call those a "loop hole" if it duces tax liability. If it were a corporation any legal exemption under current tax code is referred to, by the liberals, as a "loop hole".


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Are these "Loop-Holes" against the law? If so, those who use them should be prosecuted, if they aren't against the law, then no one's doing anything wrong.



thumper5316 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > No I didn't. Charitable contributions are tax deductible for everyone, not just the wealthy. I make charitable contributions and I take my donations off of my taxes. Most people (regardless of wealth) support charities they hold dear to their hearts with the purpose of helping others and NOT for the tax deduction.
> ...


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

It's not a "loop hole" by any stretch of the imagination. As I stated previously any tax expert, who is reputable, will tell you that buying a deduction is never worth it. There are far more effective ways to reduce one's tax liability. Large companies that donate to charitable causes do so for other reasons, just as individuals do.

If it weren't for generous, large donations, some charities would cease to exist. I'm sorry that you take such a dim view on this issue.

In the town that my sister and I grew up in, there is a scholarship program named after my late sister. Some of those who contribute are business owners/corporations who give generously to this cause. Others are people who went to school with my sister and I and give a few dollars. The point is, that every year a student is selected to receive a collage scholarship and THAT is the purpose of the program. Not tax deductions for donors.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

We did not complete skirt your point. The point is that it is the same for everyone. Do the poor donate? Why shouldn't the "rich" have a tax break. Did you know that if the person who donates has a certain amount of money that there is NO tax break?

Please don't criticize the rich for donating money. That is really offensive.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Well I'm not rich, at least I don't think so but I give as generously as I can. Some years I give more than others, it depends on how the year is going. I do NOT donate for the deduction..I donate because there is NEED!

Do the poor donate? In some ways yes. Many of those who frequent our local food bank also volunteer time there. I see parents who volunteer at their children's schools who don't have much themselves. How many poor people have helped in searches for missing children? I'd venture to say more than a few. They showed up in masses when a young girl disappeared in the town I live in..they give their time, which has value.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Well stated
> 
> Just got home and had a chat with my friend's husband about Obama and the skeet shooting photo.
> 
> ...


For crying out tears...........get over it. He is the President can't hedo anything right?????


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

rocky, scroll up. I've been involved in competitive shooting sports for a very long time. My son competed in shooting in the 2000 Olympics. There is NOTHING wrong with that photo! Shooters shoot by eye dominance NOT hand dominance. A person can be right handed but left eye dominant and you shoot with the dominant eye not the dominant hand. What was he shooting at that was so low? He could have been taking a practice shot or perhaps he is not that good of a skeet shooter, it's not an "easy" sport.

It IS however a sport that is popular with both conservatives and liberals. In some areas, golf courses hold skeet shoots during winter months. It is considered a "gentleman's/gentlewoman's" sport.

The young woman who has dominated one of the women's Olympic shotgun events (double trap) happens to be a young lady from the very liberal state of California, whose parents are environmentalists. Don't be so quick to judge.


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> ZENmama said:
> 
> 
> > @mommee - Any chance you could find your $60,000 "statistic" from a credible source not associated with the conservative right please? Here is your article I believe.
> ...


You are still trusting the word of the article to say those statistics are accurate, have you actually checked those stats with the census bureau, the Office of Budget Management, and the CSR? My point was, depending on which way your "news" source leans they will skew the perspective of the data. You do realize that people lie and stretch the truth to suit their needs right? Not everything you read on the internet is true.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> No I didn't. Charitable contributions are tax deductible for everyone, not just the wealthy. I make charitable contributions and I take my donations off of my taxes. Most people (regardless of wealth) support charities they hold dear to their hearts with the purpose of helping others and NOT for the tax deduction.
> 
> Any tax expert will tell you that "buying a tax deduction is never worth it".


Courier, I beg to differ with you about your statement that charitable contributions are tax deductible for everyone which is a completely "false" statement!

If your contribution is not a certain percentage of your income then you cannot deduct any amount! Any tax accountant will set you straight about the tax laws concerning charity donations.


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > Well stated
> ...


Hey, is there anyone out there that is left handed and knits or crochets right handed??? But I suppose since it's POTUS it must be a conspiracy. I think it is time to leave this thread, it has just gotten far too silly. Peace and blessed be to all!

~Joy


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

The point is not conservative vs liberal, it is about honesty and transparency. Seeing Ronald Reagan on a horse, was honest. Seeing Kennedy on a sailboat was honest. Seeing Obama with a rifle in his hand was a planned photo opportunity. (Reminds me of Clinton on the beaches of Normandy finding the only 3 rocks on the entire beach,or wiping a fake tear from his eye at a funeral when he saw the cameras). All smoke and mirrors. That is my beef. I do not believe for one second that poof during his attempt to pass massive gun legislation we get to see him shooting skeet at an eye level target. 

It appears it is becoming harder and harder to defend the indefensible, with a straight face.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Well if you look at your tax forms you'll find that is NOT true! You can donate a mere $25.00 and if you donate to a qualified non profit the donation is deductible. Who do YOU have doing your taxes? You need to fire them!

Unlike medical expenses or work related expenses, donations to bonafide charities do NOT need to be a certain percentage of your income. If that were true I'd have been hauled into court over 30 years ago.

Three years ago I had a "jump" in my charitable contributions...largely due to an inheritance. Normally that would be a huge red flag. Being "proactive" I made sure I documented this substantial donation. Given that I was having a very good year and had inherited a sum I felt that a larger donation was in order.

Not everyone can make a cash donation. There have been years when I have donated my time...I've slopped paint to help rehab housing, I've helped clear vacant lots, I've worked in community gardens that I never took a single piece of produce from. We all do what we can but to smite those who contribute is really very, uncharitable!

My mother was a volunteer pilot during WWII. She risked her LIFE to fly recon planes and aid the war effort..many of the women who volunteered for this duty, lost their lives. 

It just boils my blood to hear people complain that people donate or volunteer for t he sole purpose of a tax deduction! Nothing could be further from the truth.

We donate and we volunteer because there is a true need and we don't criticize those who sit on their hands!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Excuse me he did NOT have a rifle in his hands...it was a shotgun..HUGE difference! I know...details are so annoying!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Charitable contributions (to non profit organizations) are tax deductible for ALL, not just the wealthy.


Good point.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?


What's the difference where the parents are if she's responsible for them? If the parents are dead are the children more deserving than if they're dope addicts? Maybe those lazy, good-for-nothing parents just abandoned them---should they still be taken care of?
It's time for you people to take your blinders off, but I guess that would require some effort and acknowledgement of facts.[/quote]

No one has suggested that the children not be given any care , why would you even think of that? It's not the point!

One reason to know where the parents are would be...... in order to solve a problem i.e. missing parents, one needs to know where are they and why are they missing. If no attempt is made to rectify this situation then the system just encourages this to continue into perpetuity. It is likely that the loving grandmother will outlive the grandchildren and then what? We'll cross that bridge when we get there???

Another reason is possibly one or both should be contributing financially to the care of these children.

This is a major problem with our welfare system. All we do is throw money at things hoping it will bring about change. Change does not come but then we decide to throw more money and give aways perhaps thinking it wasn't enough. What we probably need to do is concentrate on changing these behaviors that produce these results. The results aren't good for anyone and meantime a life has been wasted. After the DNA, the blueprint for how this DNA will present is established in the first three years. It is not easy to solve when you have people bringing babies into this world without concern of what the responsibility is.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Your suggestion rests in "honesty" and our system does NOT reward honesty. Sadly there are too many who have no idea who have "fathered" their children and when pressed for a name...they are NOT willing to give that name. 

In the end it is the children who suffer. We cannot force their parents to be responsible or tell the truth...do we make those children suffer because their parents chose to lie? Of course not. These children are the innocent victims of their parents and sadly they will continue to be victims as they are used to collect "benefits". Though in the long run does it really matter? You can't get blood out of a rock. What you can do is stop the cycle..not a whole lot, w hen push comes to shove. We cannot mandate "morality" or "responsibility". We can raise our children to be responsible..or we can raise them to make excuses.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?
> ...


No one has suggested that the children not be given any care , why would you even think of that? It's not the point!

One reason to know where the parents are would be...... in order to solve a problem i.e. missing parents, one needs to know where are they and why are they missing. If no attempt is made to rectify this situation then the system just encourages this to continue into perpetuity. It is likely that the loving grandmother will outlive the grandchildren and then what? We'll cross that bridge when we get there???

Another reason is possibly one or both should be contributing financially to the care of these children.

This is a major problem with our welfare system. All we do is throw money at things hoping it will bring about change. Change does not come but then we decide to throw more money and give aways perhaps thinking it wasn't enough. What we probably need to do is concentrate on changing these behaviors that produce these results. The results aren't good for anyone and meantime a life has been wasted. After the DNA, the blueprint for how this DNA will present is established in the first three years. It is not easy to solve when you have people bringing babies into this world without concern of what the responsibility is.[/quote] And if the parent/s are totally irresponsible and unfit to care for the kids? If they are in prison or addicted? Should we still let them take care of these innocent kids? They aren't going to contribute anything to their lives except grief! The system isn't perfect, but dwelling on a few people who take advantage isn't very productive. There isn't a simple, one-size-fits-all solution, but however kids were brought into this world, we need to take care of them as a society!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious as to why she is responsible for so many children. Where are the parents?
> ...


No one has suggested that the children not be given any care , why would you even think of that? It's not the point!

One reason to know where the parents are would be...... in order to solve a problem i.e. missing parents, one needs to know where are they and why are they missing. If no attempt is made to rectify this situation then the system just encourages this to continue into perpetuity. It is likely that the loving grandmother will outlive the grandchildren and then what? We'll cross that bridge when we get there???

Another reason is possibly one or both should be contributing financially to the care of these children.

This is a major problem with our welfare system. All we do is throw money at things hoping it will bring about change. Change does not come but then we decide to throw more money and give aways perhaps thinking it wasn't enough. What we probably need to do is concentrate on changing these behaviors that produce these results. The results aren't good for anyone and meantime a life has been wasted. After the DNA, the blueprint for how this DNA will present is established in the first three years. It is not easy to solve when you have people bringing babies into this world without concern of what the responsibility is.[/quote]

I just want to point out that the quoted material above is a little messy. I didn't write all of the stuff quoted at the beginning of the post above.
I'm also tired of this and will leave. I believe that children need to be taken care of, whatever their situation or who their parents are. I'm also forgiving of parents who try their best, but don't have adequate skills or emotional stability to raise their own children. As a wealthy society we just aren't doing enough to provide monetary help, job training, and healthcare to those who need it, and yes, I believe that the government is the entity to provide these things because no one else will. My hope is that people will not look with disdain on those who are less fortunate--for whatever reason.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You say it's all smoke and mirrors, and you're having trouble keeping a straight face. I don't think there's anything funny about the fighting and bickering that has been going on in our country between our own people. And how would you know what President Obama would be doing in his spare time? He just might be out doing a little bird hunting if he got the chance. But unlike other presidents, he has had very little time to do anything other than try to deal with the Republicans. He's tried harder than any president I've seen to get our country back on track. He'll go down in history as being a president who cared what happened to the people that he was voted in to care for. Unlike Nixon who didn't do so well, and G.W. Bush who started a war with the wrong person. And how many of our military personnel, and others, have had to die because of Bushes little oops? Now that's what I call indefensible. And yet so many think he was such a great president. And you can't think of anything better than to suggest that President Obama isn't really out skeet shooting because you think that he is shooting at the wrong height, and shooting with the wrong hand? You say it's a photo Opp......HAY... They're all photo opps when the press follows a president on his off time and takes pictures. If it weren't, none of us would have seen President Regan on a horse, or President Kennedy on his boat. The shot gun argument is pretty transparent. 
As I have said before, how about we AGREE to DISAGREE. And leave it at that. Stop the bashing. No matter what any of you say or suggest, it isn't going to change a thing. All you do is get yourselves all riled up. I'm sure you could use this time to knit something for a loved one, or for someone who just might be in need. I'm still working on the ribbed hand warmers for my GD. 
Remember.......United we stand, Divided we fall.



off2knit said:


> The point is not conservative vs liberal, it is about honesty and transparency. Seeing Ronald Reagan on a horse, was honest. Seeing Kennedy on a sailboat was honest. Seeing Obama with a rifle in his hand was a planned photo opportunity. (Reminds me of Clinton on the beaches of Normandy finding the only 3 rocks on the entire beach,or wiping a fake tear from his eye at a funeral when he saw the cameras). All smoke and mirrors. That is my beef. I do not believe for one second that poof during his attempt to pass massive gun legislation we get to see him shooting skeet at an eye level target.
> 
> It appears it is becoming harder and harder to defend the indefensible, with a straight face.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Not a tad at all to those of us who live in reality.



rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Al cameron wrote...what's the difference...
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Americans from USA are the most charitable people in the world AKA on the face of the earth. And I don't just mean government but also as individuals.



ZENmama said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do so many insist this was an initiative of ONLY President Obama? This subject has been batted around and battled since the Clinton administration. Additionally Obama did NOT pen this act and he alone did not pass it, it was needed
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Americans from USA are the most charitable people in the world AKA on the face of the earth. And I don't just mean government but also as individuals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RUKnitting - URRight!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Headstart is a beautiful example of the government irresponsibility in doing their jobs. Last year they reviewed the results of the Headstart program and it was seen clearly that this is a failed program. Those children in Headstart at the 3rd grade level were exactly where they would have been had they not had the benefit of Headstart. Your government$$$$$ being wasted. And as far as I know there were no changes implemented to head start.

Having worked as a professional with the Headstart Program I can honestly without hesitation tell you it is a glorified babysitting service and would probably be better done by teenagers with babysitting certification. I had recommended that we bring the parents in to participate thinking that they would learn how to play with their children and how to encourage verbal skills. You would have thought I was asking for a piece of the moon.

I've often wondered about having a kibbutz system for children whose parents don't choose to take care of them. And have as a requirement for receiving funds from the government that the parents spend time helping out in the "kibbutz" .



pardoquilts said:


> All this talk about not having so many children, and forcing the parents to be a work-release programs, and blaming the children reminds me of the line that Scrooge says in "A Christmas Carol" - when asked to contribute to a fund for the poor, Scrooge says, "Aren't there workhouses?" We cut programs like Headstart, which give young children a much better chance in school.....we cut funding to Planned Parenthood, a lowcost resource for birth control....we cut mental health funding. BUT, we can't tax the ridiculous money that the 1% make in this country. It is shameful! You can't possibly tell me that someone who makes 20 million dollars a year "earned" that money! Nobody merits that kind of money by the sweat of their brow, or even by the product of their intellect.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> The point is not conservative vs liberal, it is about honesty and transparency. Seeing Ronald Reagan on a horse, was honest. Seeing Kennedy on a sailboat was honest. Seeing Obama with a rifle in his hand was a planned photo opportunity. (Reminds me of Clinton on the beaches of Normandy finding the only 3 rocks on the entire beach,or wiping a fake tear from his eye at a funeral when he saw the cameras). All smoke and mirrors. That is my beef. I do not believe for one second that poof during his attempt to pass massive gun legislation we get to see him shooting skeet at an eye level target.
> 
> It appears it is becoming harder and harder to defend the indefensible, with a straight face.


Thank you for being the voice of reason...but you know there are some who will never see through the lies and distortions. Can you imagine what would have been said if Romney had done this during the campaign? One side, or the other will always be looking to find fault- some deserved, some not.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

COUNT ME IN !!!!



momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > You do realize that the published compensation package is not just their salary, don't you? Much of the dollar signs that you envy so much are stock options. The value of the stock options are nothing more that a representation of the stock worth for *that day*.
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You are partially correct. They can't find qualified people for the higher level of jobs they created. Is that because of our wonderful public school system (Government run) ????



alcameron said:


> Yes, the rich are creating so many jobs with their wealth! Why, there's just a glut of jobs! Those wealthy job-creators just can't find enough people to fill the positions they've created!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And 100% of what you give. No administrative scalping! 100%



Lukelucy said:


> Right on Momee. I do not want the government tell me where to put my money.
> 
> If I want to give to the poor, I will give in my own community where I know where it is going.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And then the company went to China and is thriving!



thumper5316 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The job market did not meet their anticipated goals. And the 7.9% was an increase in unemployment from the previous figure. Plus there is attrition from people who are no longer on the rolls but still unemployed.



Nussa said:


> Washington (AP) The U.S. job market is proving sturdier than expected at a time when the economy is under pressure from Washington gridlock and the threat of government spending cuts.
> 
> The Labor Dept. estimated job gains for the two months of 2012 - a period when the economy was being threatened by the fiscal cliff - rose from 161,000 to 274,000 for Nov. and from 155,000 to 196,000 for Dec.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Well if you look at your tax forms you'll find that is NOT true! You can donate a mere $25.00 and if you donate to a qualified non profit the donation is deductible. Who do YOU have doing your taxes? You need to fire them!
> 
> Unlike medical expenses or work related expenses, donations to bonafide charities do NOT need to be a certain percentage of your income. If that were true I'd have been hauled into court over 30 years ago.
> 
> ...


Glad you donate to charity; however you are still wrong because my neighbor donated $3,000 to a non-profit historical society, but at tax time, because of her income she would have to made that amount $15,000.

You should not jump so quick with your falsehoods to say she should have fired the tax preparer! Have you gone to tax school? The rules change yearly.

If you can take a deduction of only $25.00, then you must not have much of an income.

You also were hateful to Off2knit as when I read her words about your son, I felt she was complimenting him, but your stinger came out instead!

You must wear your feelings on your sleeve.

We all can disagree, but must part as friends. Where do you stand?

I have tried to break the ice on this thread, but really am getting tired of all of the very hateful people who are ready to type hateful/hurtful words without really thinking things through first.

I think you should take a time-out!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but the salaries of most CEOs are just plain obscene! I am not advocating that we take away all their money - I am suggesting that we tax them at a higher rate, and cut out out some of the tax boondoggles they take advantage of. As Warren Buffet noted, it is ridiculous that his secretary, who I'm sure is paid a more than decent wage, pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does. He gives a lot to various charities, but he also recognizes that the system favors those who already have much more than anybody could need. Nobody needs to have multiple houses on multiple continents. Nobody needs to have private fleets of cars and planes. The money those folks have available is beyond comprehension to the average person.
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

So far we haven't seen it! Just a bunch of BLUNDERS! I feel sorry for him because he is in over his head. But why should anyone thing that being a community organizer would give him executive skills to perform the job of the POTUS???? 4 more years!!!



rocky1991 said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > Well stated
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Excuse me he did NOT have a rifle in his hands...it was a shotgun..HUGE difference! I know...details are so annoying!


Again, you are wrong a shotgun is considered a rifle! A shotgun is not a pistol so according to the law it is a rifle!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, why don't you knit something for charity as far as I am reading, "you" are the one who is arguing with everyone with your nasty/hateful remarks.

You need a time-out to knit!



Nussa said:


> You say it's all smoke and mirrors, and you're having trouble keeping a straight face. I don't think there's anything funny about the fighting and bickering that has been going on in our country between our own people. And how would you know what President Obama would be doing in his spare time? He just might be out doing a little bird hunting if he got the chance. But unlike other presidents, he has had very little time to do anything other than try to deal with the Republicans. He's tried harder than any president I've seen to get our country back on track. He'll go down in history as being a president who cared what happened to the people that he was voted in to care for. Unlike Nixon who didn't do so well, and G.W. Bush who started a war with the wrong person. And how many of our military personnel, and others, have had to die because of Bushes little oops? Now that's what I call indefensible. And yet so many think he was such a great president. And you can't think of anything better than to suggest that President Obama isn't really out skeet shooting because you think that he is shooting at the wrong height, and shooting with the wrong hand? You say it's a photo Opp......HAY... They're all photo opps when the press follows a president on his off time and takes pictures. If it weren't, none of us would have seen President Regan on a horse, or President Kennedy on his boat. The shot gun argument is pretty transparent.
> As I have said before, how about we AGREE to DISAGREE. And leave it at that. Stop the bashing. No matter what any of you say or suggest, it isn't going to change a thing. All you do is get yourselves all riled up. I'm sure you could use this time to knit something for a loved one, or for someone who just might be in need. I'm still working on the ribbed hand warmers for my GD.
> Remember.......United we stand, Divided we fall.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway ((9+&%;;75%7::%#+}}{{[]>>>^^^. End of discussion!!!



Janeway said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Well if you look at your tax forms you'll find that is NOT true! You can donate a mere $25.00 and if you donate to a qualified non profit the donation is deductible. Who do YOU have doing your taxes? You need to fire them!
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks for the lovely picture as I shall treasure it!



RUKnitting said:


> Janeway ((9+&%;;75%7::%#+}}{{[]>>>^^^. End of discussion!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

SPOT ON !!



momeee said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I agree. If i remember correctly, there was nothing in his background or experience that qualified him for this office. Even his term in the Senate prodUced nothing notable. He was absent much of the time, wrote or introduced no bills, and when voted, most times he voted "Abstain" .



RUKnitting said:


> So far we haven't seen it! Just a bunch of BLUNDERS! I feel sorry for him because he is in over his head. But why should anyone thing that being a community organizer would give him executive skills to perform the job of the POTUS???? 4 more years!
> 
> For crying out tears...........get over it. He is the President can't hedo anything right?????


[/quote]


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

wrong again....... A rifle fires a single bullet or round such as a 7.62 or 5.56 millimeter. A shotgun fires a slug such as 12 gram that consists of multiple projectiles. Also a rifles barrel has rifling (or groves) to put spin on the bullet when it is fired.



Janeway said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Excuse me he did NOT have a rifle in his hands...it was a shotgun..HUGE difference! I know...details are so annoying!
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm nasty and hateful? Lady, and I use the word loosely, I can't hold a candle to you in that department......


Janeway said:


> Well, why don't you knit something for charity as far as I am reading, "you" are the one who is arguing with everyone with your nasty/hateful remarks.
> 
> You need a time-out to knit!
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama sure does manipulate the public. Gay rights - he's out there just before the election. The gun thing - he's right on time. Yup Mr. Manipulator is his real name.


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

Janeway said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Excuse me he did NOT have a rifle in his hands...it was a shotgun..HUGE difference! I know...details are so annoying!
> ...


A shotgun is NOT a rifle, for 2 reasons, one a rifle shoots a bullet and a shotgun shoots a shell. 2 a rifle has a RIFLED barrel, hence its name, a shotgun does not. Pesky little facts, I tell ya


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

ZENmama, thank you! Rifles actually more resemble pistols due to the rifling in the barrels of both these types of firearms. Shotguns have "smooth bore" barrels. You can use the same ammunition in a .22 caliber rifle or pistol but you cannot use shotgun shells in anything but a shotgun! Shotgun shells contain multiple shot (projectiles) while rifle and pistol rounds each contain only one bullet/projectile.

The only commonality between rifles and shotguns is that they both fit into the category of "long guns", though all similarity ends there.

If you think that a shotgun is rifle or vice versa you should refer to federal firearms laws, which makes clear distinctions between the two.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Perhaps you should consider that the electorate is in favor of gay rights and an improvement in our gun control laws, since they voted the President back into office. The good news, to me, is that because he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again, he might be able to get something done in these areas, as well as in climate control. That is, if the Congress finally realizes that it must remember how to compromise, as it appears to have done on immigration reform.


Lukelucy said:


> Obama sure does manipulate the public. Gay rights - he's out there just before the election. The gun thing - he's right on time. Yup Mr. Manipulator is his real name.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

In the words of Hillary Clinton, Why does that matter now?

Both have the same purpose, and the knit picking over it's category, is not the issue. The issue is symbolism over subsistence. It is an issue of photo op verses working on our economy. As Joe Biden would say, it is all about that THREE letter word; JOBS

The other issue is to enforce the laws on the books, and not pick and choose which one fits your need at the moment. If more gun laws would prevent crime and murder, then Chicago should be the safest city in the world.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> Perhaps you should consider that the electorate is in favor of gay rights and an improvement in our gun control laws, since they voted the President back into office. The good news, to me, is that because he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again, he might be able to get something done in these areas, as well as in climate control. That is, if the Congress finally realizes that it must remember how to compromise, as it appears to have done on immigration reform.
> 
> 
> Lukelucy said:
> ...


No one is against people having their Constitutional rights, which are already in place. The splintering of people into groups is demeaning.

Since the gun ban in Washington DC was lifted, less people were murdered last year. Therefore we do not need more laws, we need to enforce what we have. Maybe if the Libs hadn't closed all the Mental Hospitals in the 60's there would be a place for the severely mentally ill to be cared for, instead of being homeless


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > The point is not conservative vs liberal, it is about honesty and transparency. Seeing Ronald Reagan on a horse, was honest. Seeing Kennedy on a sailboat was honest. Seeing Obama with a rifle in his hand was a planned photo opportunity. (Reminds me of Clinton on the beaches of Normandy finding the only 3 rocks on the entire beach,or wiping a fake tear from his eye at a funeral when he saw the cameras). All smoke and mirrors. That is my beef. I do not believe for one second that poof during his attempt to pass massive gun legislation we get to see him shooting skeet at an eye level target.
> ...


That's so true. I've noticed one thing that i think might have secured the election for Obama. The Dems support their candidate no matter what he/she does or says. There is NO criticism and no acknowledgment of any weakness whatsoever. Every negative is unfailingly defended by his supporters. Look at the behavior of the Clintons - infidelity, immorality, even lying - sometimes under oath. And they are still worshipped and adored by the Democratic party. The GOP, on the other hand, shredded their candidate. The long primary was used to bring out every possible negative, in hopes of "immunizing" the person against attacks. Didn't work. Instead, every candidate's faults were scrutinized, and each one was dragged through the coals by its own party. (Started in 2008 with mcCain, Palin, then 2012 with Santorum, Gingrich, Paul, Bachmann.) Then the guy with the least visible wounds (Romney) was propped up to endure further trashing by the opponents AND continued thrashing by his own party. I'm sure people thought, "Even the GOP doesn't like him." So a fine man of good character, family values, and significant accomplishments ran a solid campaign but was sabotaged by his own party. Just my opinion, but if the GOP can't get behind their candidate like the Dems do, they're sunk.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

But the NRA is opposed to background checks!!!!


off2knit said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps you should consider that the electorate is in favor of gay rights and an improvement in our gun control laws, since they voted the President back into office. The good news, to me, is that because he doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected again, he might be able to get something done in these areas, as well as in climate control. That is, if the Congress finally realizes that it must remember how to compromise, as it appears to have done on immigration reform.
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama sure does manipulate the public. Gay rights - he's out there just before the election. The gun thing - he's right on time. Yup Mr. Manipulator is his real name.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> But the NRA is opposed to background checks!!!!
> 
> 
> off2knit said:
> ...


Good responses. You all make perfect sense. So much the govt. needs to come together and work on.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

@ bonbf3 Good point. I never looked at the vetting in quite that way. And, with the way many uninformed voters decide, they choose the soundbite that appeals to their needs, etc.


bonbf3 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


Perhaps Democrats understand that good legislation doesn't happen overnight, and that a second term was needed to put through things we think are important. As the Republican governor of Louisiana said, "Republicans need to stop being the party of stupid!"


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 

The people of the United States have voted. It always comes down to hatred of Obama. Look back over these pages. Every ill in our society is due to Obama being in the White House, according to the outrage of most of you on this thread. That's the bottom line. When will you realize that the far right wing of the Republican Party is not in charge? Why do you think the republicans are scurrying to change their party from within? It's exactly because they can't win with the candidates that have far right and tea party support. When I saw and heard the candidates during the republican primary I couldn't believe how extreme the repub candidates were. The only "normal" candidate was Huntsman, and we all know what happened to him. 
The face of the US has changed. Old, white men are not going to be running the outcome of elections. Why do you think the repubs are finally willing to do something about immigration reform? They need to get some of the Hispanic vote! It's time to realize that we have a whole government in Washington, and Obama can't be blamed for whatever goes wrong in this country.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, I called gun store to ask about shotgun and was told they always call a shotgun a "rifle" because of the long barrel. If someone saws off the barrel, it is still considered a rifle.

I asked about the barrel being different and "again" he said it is considered a rifle by us and the police force! He said if a police officer sees a long barreled shotgun, he still calls it a rifle.

So call it by any technical name you want, but any gun with a long barrel is still a considered a rifle.

I'm a proud member of the NRA and will continue with that membership. I also am licensed to carry a concealed handgun for my lifetime. My weapon is a hammerless .38 with a laser bead. I am also a perfect shot and do practice regularly.

Some of you who referred to the white man who does not like the fact that Obo is in the White House should take a different tack. I don't care if he is green, I just don't like the man.

By the way, I am American Indian and America was ours first, but we are still treated as if we are dirt--just check out the reservations!

Little Moon Flower, AKA, Janeway


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


"We" who? obama should have never been given a second term. Those who voted him in again did so because of what he wants government to give them with other peoples money.

"Republicans need to stop being the party of stupid!" Obviously a sound bite that you heard because you don't know the context in which it was said.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

It was said by Louisiana governor Jindal.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I don't see the photo of President Obama shooting a SHOTGUN as a photo op. While I was not a supporter of his he has many times said that he supports valid shooting sportsmen. The photo is just back up on his stance.

If you are a "perfect shot" why are you not on the US shooting team? People make this claim all the time but can rarely back it up. Read up on Carlos Hathcock. THAT man was a perfect shot, and it didn't involve paper targets.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> "We" who? obama should have never been given a second term. Those who voted him in again did so because of what he wants government to give them with other peoples money.
> 
> "Republicans need to stop being the party of stupid!" Obviously a sound bite that you heard because you don't know the context in which it was said.


In the real world, anyone who had a job performance like obama did in his 1st 4 years - 4 years! - would have been fired, no 2nd chances. And we cannot afford it. It would be wonderful if he could keep his promises and bring people together- that was one of his strengths, supposedly, and get the economy straightened out along with other pressing issues. I do not believe that he is capable of it,and hope I am proven wrong for the good of our nation.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > "We" who? obama should have never been given a second term. Those who voted him in again did so because of what he wants government to give them with other peoples money.
> ...


Well, face it. He wasn't, but we are all entitled to our opinions.


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

QUOTE----The face of the US has changed. Old, white men are not going to be running the outcome of elections. Why do you think the repubs are finally willing to do something about immigration reform? They need to get some of the Hispanic vote! [/quote]

Al, 75 percent of Hispanics vote Democrat because they believe in BIG expansion of government, social safety net and progressive taxation. It has nothing to do with immigration policy. Why would they worry about immigration, they are here, no chance of being prosecuted or sent back for breaking and entering into the USA. You can fact check all of this from many articles and book by a great scholar Heather MacDonald. Also just who are the Old White Men, does Biden fall into that category and Obama's 2013 cabinet members.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It was said by Louisiana governor Jindal.


I know who said it. I'm saying you don't know what he was referring to when he said it and are, therefore, taking it out of context.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > "We" who? obama should have never been given a second term. Those who voted him in again did so because of what he wants government to give them with other peoples money.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.


Not really. He bought a second term giving away the store, so to speak. Now we are going to be stuck with the huge bill he has racked up.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > It was said by Louisiana governor Jindal.
> ...


More about the Jindal comment

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/bobby-jindal-gop_n_2121511.html


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lukka said:


> QUOTE----The face of the US has changed. Old, white men are not going to be running the outcome of elections. Why do you think the repubs are finally willing to do something about immigration reform? They need to get some of the Hispanic vote!


Al, 75 percent of Hispanics vote Democrat because they believe in BIG expansion of government, social safety net and progressive taxation. It has nothing to do with immigration policy. Why would they worry about immigration, they are here, no chance of being prosecuted or sent back for breaking and entering into the USA. You can fact check all of this from many articles and book by a great scholar Heather MacDonald. Also just who are the Old White Men, does Biden fall into that category and Obama's 2013 cabinet members.[/quote]

The "old, white men" reference just means that as increasing numbers of non-whites are gaining voting power through citizenship, the face of the voting public becomes more inclusive, affecting outcomes.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> The people of the United States have voted. It always comes down to hatred of Obama. Look back over these pages. Every ill in our society is due to Obama being in the White House, according to the outrage of most of you on this thread. That's the bottom line. When will you realize that the far right wing of the Republican Party is not in charge? Why do you think the republicans are scurrying to change their party from within? It's exactly because they can't win with the candidates that have far right and tea party support. When I saw and heard the candidates during the republican primary I couldn't believe how extreme the repub candidates were. The only "normal" candidate was Huntsman, and we all know what happened to him.
> The face of the US has changed. Old, white men are not going to be running the outcome of elections. Why do you think the repubs are finally willing to do something about immigration reform? They need to get some of the Hispanic vote! It's time to realize that we have a whole government in Washington, and Obama can't be blamed for whatever goes wrong in this country.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Obama won but what did America win?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama won but what did America win?


I believe that polarization of our country does no good for anyone, and it's time to look for areas of agreement rather than fighting over everything. We can't make progress until then. We're back to trying to discern what's best for the good of the country and the American society as a whole.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Right again , Thumper.


thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama won but what did America win?


This is interesting:
Obamacare. Medical Company Lays Off 100 People
02/05/13
A medical company called Smith & Nephew is blaming Obamacare for having to lay off 100 people in Tennessee and Massachusetts. 
From Huffington Post:
The company, which makes orthopedic reconstruction products, is blaming 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices in President Obama's health care law for the layoffs, according to Fox13 News. 
The nearly $30 billion tax on medical devices that took effect Jan. 1, 2013, has impacted a number of companies across the U.S., the company said in a statement to Fox13 News. 
Medical companies lobbied to get the tax, which is levied on medical devices implanted by professionals, repealed, according to Reuters. The tax is expected to raise $29 billion in government revenue through 2022.
Joe Metzger, the company's senior vice president of corporate communications, told the Memphis Business Journal that the firm is "not immune from this added expense burden."


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Finally I'm hearing some common sense, and the naysayers are getting a real good Thumping. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, that was short lived....... :thumbdown:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Obama won but what did America win?
> ...


Reading some of your past posts over the years, I have seen no willingness on your part to find any area of agreement with Conservatives. I doubt very seriously if Romney had won, you would not have the "Can't we all get along attitude".

I just got a bill for over $200 for a doctor's appointment I had last month. Had a quick checkup, flu shot and blood work. This is on top of my monthly premium. I also had to pay $200 for a shingles shot. (According to the government I am too young for the shingles shot, but being first responder for my parents, I can not afford to get the shingles) This was not the case 3 years ago when I started this policy. I paid my premium and my deductible and all was good. Thank you Obama for proving to me, how much better off I am after Obamacare. Can't wait for 2014 when the whole thing is implemented.

I have no idea how middle Americans can afford this. If I had know about this unexpected bill, I probably would have passed on the blood work, and take my chances until next time. I do not have that extra expense budgeted, not sure what I will have to do without to pay it


----------



## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

alcameron said:


> lukka said:
> 
> 
> > QUOTE----The face of the US has changed. Old, white men are not going to be running the outcome of elections. Why do you think the repubs are finally willing to do something about immigration reform? They need to get some of the Hispanic vote!
> ...


The "old, white men" reference just means that as increasing numbers of non-whites are gaining voting power through citizenship, the face of the voting public becomes more inclusive, affecting outcomes.[/quote]

Alcameron, does VP Joe Biden fall into the category of "Old White Men" and Obama's 2nd term cabinet member nominations? There appears to be alot of "old" alot of "white" and alot of "men" peeking out of those White House windows, or do we just ignore the obvious and blame the other party.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Obama won but what did America win?
> ...


Here's another one from Minnesota...

"Medtronic to cut 1,000 jobs, including 250 in Twin Cities"


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It looks like for Thumper and Country Bumpkins the sky is always falling. When they loose one battle, they just go and pick (on) up another....


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

And big business overwhelmingly supported Romney! The decision to treat corporations as "people" was one of the worse Supreme Court decision ever, but all the money they poured into PACS made no difference in the end.


thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> @ bonbf3 Good point. I never looked at the vetting in quite that way. And, with the way many uninformed voters decide, they choose the soundbite that appeals to their needs, etc.
> 
> 
> bonbf3 said:
> ...


Momeee - I've thought for a long time that the GOP ruined Romney's chances. With the hearings and the total support for Hilary, in spite of her clear culpability in the Benghazi affair, it struck me that the two parties are totally different in their response to their members.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

courier770 said:


> I don't see the photo of President Obama shooting a SHOTGUN as a photo op. While I was not a supporter of his he has many times said that he supports valid shooting sportsmen. The photo is just back up on his stance.
> 
> If you are a "perfect shot" why are you not on the US shooting team? People make this claim all the time but can rarely back it up. Read up on Carlos Hathcock. THAT man was a perfect shot, and it didn't involve paper targets.


put in a comment but it got lost somehow so will write it again!

Some of you need to get "real" that things cannot always be the way you want. For instance:

I'm too old to try out for the US shooting team plus have a terminal illness. Also, on oxygen at night plus a sleep apnea machine so intend to protect myself fully for the days left in my life.

Shame on anyone who would break into my old house that has nothing of value unless they want a 30 year old furniture!

Yes, I would shoot as if someone is in my house without consent, the Apache blood would take over and the results would be deadly--maybe for both of us as I probably would die of a heart attack after shooting someone!

I have had this permit since 1988, and have "never" had any problems as our children had friends over constantly and now grands are here often. I do still have common sense about the weapons in our house where people are concerned.

I have carried it everywhere without anyone ever knowing I "carried" a weapon. I was fitted with a shoulder holster that hides the weapon under a jacket where it could be reached if necessary.

My dad taught me how to shoot and be safe with any weapon when I was young and now at this age, I still understand weapon safety.

I shoot when feeling well enough, at the local police shooting range both indoors and out doors. They know me and also how well I hit the targets with both a pistol and a rifle.

End of that discussion!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> It looks like for Thumper and Country Bumpkins the sky is always falling. When they loose one battle, they just go and pick (on) up another....


Speak for your self darling as Thumper and Country are both very sweet ladies---but you on the other hand??????

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.
> ...


Amen!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama won but what did America win?


Bills, bills, bills, bills, for America!

:roll: :roll: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, folks, out of here for today/night as food almost ready to eat.

Anyone for homemade baked beans (made with home cooked Navy Beans), mashed potatoes, baked pork tenderloin, and turnip/collards/mustard and kale greens cooked together?

Dinner is at 5:30 pm Eastern Standard Time.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway,

Where do I go for dinner? You are making me hungry. Is there enough for me?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Are you all done feeling sorry for yourselves????????? 
Here, let me give you something real to feel bad about, if you have a heart. I just found out a wonderful young man and his wife lost their one year old son last night. A beautiful little boy named Johnny. Can any of you make that go away with your hostility and name calling? And you know who your are. 
I suggest you shut down this destructive site. Those of you who are trying to get SOME to see reason, please stop now. You can't change them. Many have come before you and tried. It did no good. Those who complain about not getting health care or someone else using YOUR money on health care. Think of your children. And thank God you have them, because my young friends are now left to plan a funeral for their child. 
GOD ALMIGHTY........SHAME ON YOU!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see the photo of President Obama shooting a SHOTGUN as a photo op. While I was not a supporter of his he has many times said that he supports valid shooting sportsmen. The photo is just back up on his stance.
> ...


Whoa, Janie! I want you on MY team!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, folks, out of here for today/night as food almost ready to eat.
> 
> Anyone for homemade baked beans (made with home cooked Navy Beans), mashed potatoes, baked pork tenderloin, and turnip/collards/mustard and kale greens cooked together?
> 
> Dinner is at 5:30 pm Eastern Standard Time.


Just saw this. My jet is warming up in the garage - see you in 50 minutes!! (I wish.)


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see the photo of President Obama shooting a SHOTGUN as a photo op. While I was not a supporter of his he has many times said that he supports valid shooting sportsmen. The photo is just back up on his stance.
> ...


Janeway, 
I am very sorry to learn of your illness. Your ability with a weapon is to be applauded. I wish more women had the willingness and ability to be armed. Fortunately I live in a state that does not require a license to carry a concealed weapon, so, at times, I do. My family acquired weapons after an event with a known criminal and the state policeman suggested that we arm ourselves as we live a distance from any police station. (We practice at a private shooting range with handguns, rifles and shotguns. And yes, I would also protect my home and family if needed.) He said that very many citizens of my state do own weapons and he felt, for that reason, that there was very little armed crimes. 
I wish you many more peaceful days to enjoy our beautiful country.

Do you think the proposed gun-ban legislation will now be a 'hot topic on this thread? We could go on for over 100 pages perhaps!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Obama won but what did America win?
> ...


And another reason for bills:
New York Times: 'Vermont Lawmaker Moves to Repeal Protection for Drug Maker' 
Wednesday, 23 January 2013 00:00

By Eric Lipton

A Vermont lawmaker on Wednesday introduced legislation that would repeal language passed into law in early January that benefits a California-based biotechnology company, saying the deal "confirms the American public's worst suspicions of how Congress operates."

The bill introduced by Representative Peter Welch, Democrat of Vermont, would eliminate the two-year delay in Medicare price restraints that Amgen, of Thousand Oaks, Calif., sought as part of the legislation to avert the so-called fiscal cliff. The provision protects certain oral drugs, including Amgen's Sensipar, from Medicare price controls, costing the federal government perhaps as much as $500 million in the coming two years.

This special protection, first detailed in The New York Times, was supported by the two top members of the Senate Finance Committee  Senator Max Baucus, Democrat of Montana, and Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah  who are major recipients of campaign contributions from Amgen and its employees.

Aides for the senators, and a spokeswoman for Amgen, said the delay in the price controls was necessary to protect kidney dialysis patients, because so many other changes are already taking place in the way Medicare covers this care. They dismissed any suggestion that the provision was related to political contributions, saying the change was good public policy.

"Patient access to necessary treatments would be compromised," Kelley Davenport, an Amgen spokeswoman , said in a written statement Wednesday, defending the provision and opposing any repeal.

But critics called the provision an unnecessary giveaway to Amgen.

"As the nation's economy teetered on the edge of a Congressional-created fiscal cliff, lobbyists for a private, for-profit company seized an opportunity to feed at the public trough," Mr. Welch said in a statement issued Wednesday announcing the plan to repeal the provision. "Without scrutiny or debate, the American taxpayer was stuck with the $500 million tab. This special interest provision should have stood on its own merits with an up or down vote. It's no wonder cockroaches and root canals are more popular than Congress."

Ms. Davenport defended the company's behind-the-scenes push to secure the provision, which Amgen has acknowledged should help sales of Sensipar.

"Our 2012 lobbying efforts and expenditures reflect Amgen's continued advocacy efforts to provide patient access to and advance the coverage of existing and future innovative products," she said in a statement last week.

Mr. Welch, the chief deputy whip for House Democrats, lined up three co-sponsors for the legislation, including one Republican, Richard Hanna, of New York. But the repeal of the provision has little chance of becoming law unless a much larger number of lawmakers sign on to the effort, and then move to attach the repeal to some other piece of related legislation moving through the House.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


I remember one time when I went to the shooting range with my husband for a bit of fun and this very elderly lady walked with difficulty with a cane to the shooting bench. She had a holstered revolver and I couldn't help but wonder how she had the strength to hold the revolver up to shoot it. Well, not only could she hold it up but was there to practice for a speed draw and shooting competition! Wow, could she shoot!!

I much prefer target shooting but have tried clay targets before. I'm no good. LOL! The boys and my husband enjoy it, though. The middle one even got a perfect score on time.

On a more personal note, I have used a gun to protect myself in my home before so I know that being armed works.


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!


I should do this because when President Bush was in office you liberals gave him respect? Somehow, I doubt it. I will give OWEbama respect when he starts to respect the Constitution.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama does not deserve respect. Sorry.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama does not deserve respect. Sorry.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:



> Well, folks, out of here for today/night as food almost ready to eat.
> 
> Anyone for homemade baked beans (made with home cooked Navy Beans), mashed potatoes, baked pork tenderloin, and turnip/collards/mustard and kale greens cooked together?
> 
> Dinner is at 5:30 pm Eastern Standard Time.[/quote Don't want to dress up. Is that okay? I will bring the cornbread. Thanks for the invite. :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Obama does not deserve respect. Sorry.
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins,

See you there!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!
> ...


Carol, I'm with you! There are lots of things I'd like to show HerrObama but respect isn't one of them. Respect is EARNED, just like our SALARIES!!!


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Also, Obama was "voted" to a second term, not "given"--unlike another recent president.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There is no president who was "given" any title. All were elected. That is not a nice thing to say.


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## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like for Thumper and Country Bumpkins the sky is always falling. When they loose one battle, they just go and pick (on) up another....
> ...


@Nussa - I haven't been part of this community for very long, but I have definitely gotten the sense that it is kind of "clicky".


----------



## ZENmama (Nov 21, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Are you all done feeling sorry for yourselves?????????
> Here, let me give you something real to feel bad about, if you have a heart. I just found out a wonderful young man and his wife lost their one year old son last night. A beautiful little boy named Johnny. Can any of you make that go away with your hostility and name calling? And you know who your are.
> I suggest you shut down this destructive site. Those of you who are trying to get SOME to see reason, please stop now. You can't change them. Many have come before you and tried. It did no good. Those who complain about not getting health care or someone else using YOUR money on health care. Think of your children. And thank God you have them, because my young friends are now left to plan a funeral for their child.
> GOD ALMIGHTY........SHAME ON YOU!


My family and I will be sending our thoughts and love out to everyone who will grieve for this loss.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you ZENmama........


ZENmama said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Are you all done feeling sorry for yourselves?????????
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I despised most of what President Bush did while he was in office, particularly starting a war to protect the oil interests of his cronies, using false pretenses to do so, but I never called him anything other than his name. The office, and the fact that the person was elected legitimately by a majority of the electorate, deserves respect. You talk about American values, but respect apparently isn't one of those values.


CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!
> ...


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

I repeat, I will respect BO when he respects the Constitution, which he clearly has no intention of doing.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There is no president who was "given" any title. All were elected. That is not a nice thing to say.


I wasn't the one who used the term "given" to start out with. That was said about Obama. Tsk tsk, not a nice thing to say.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Back online for a minute, but set the table for several guests for dinner.

Waiting!

Sympathy to the couple who lost their son. That is tragic for anyone to lose a young child.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Well, folks, out of here for today/night as food almost ready to eat.
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Thank you ZENmama........
> 
> 
> ZENmama said:
> ...


Our deepest sympathy goes out to your friends. So sad. I know that you will be of some comfort to them.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thumper5316 - so glad you had that gun when you needed it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

So sad to lost a child. Prayers for the grieving parents. Lord God I pray for comfort to the parents and family of this baby boy. I pray peace and Love to them in Jesus Name.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you ZENmama........
> ...


So right. That must be the worst tragedy of all. God bless them and all who try to help.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I would appreciate it if those who refer to the President as "obo" would explain what that is supposed to mean. He is the President, he has a name, and he deserves the respect of the office, even if you detest the man!
> ...


And the office of the President!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

CarolfromTX said:


> I repeat, I will respect BO when he respects the Constitution, which he clearly has no intention of doing.


How true. We now have a president and cohorts that abhorred water boarding to find Bin Laden, but it is okay to have unknown and non-elected person send a drone off to kill American Citizens.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > I repeat, I will respect BO when he respects the Constitution, which he clearly has no intention of doing.
> ...


Right. You can kill Americans if approved by a Dept. of "Justice" official. That would be people like ..........Eric Holder of Fast and Furious Fame. Help!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I read an article in our paper this morning. Here, in Minnesota, we have a state funded coverage called MNCare for low income people and families. Well, our governor, who many of us here refer to as governor Goofy, decided that, as the caring, wonderful liberal that he is, he would accept the federal funding for ACA. Well, the devil is in the details, as they say. He has found out that in accepting the federal money for an ACA insurance exchange it will swallow and forcibly replace our existing exchange and the cost to those low income people and families would more than TRIPLE!! What would cost $28 per month for MNCare would cost $93 on the federal program. So, to whom is the ACA actually affordable?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

A bad leader can really ruin the system. Very upsetting.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Indeed, just like George Bush ran our country into its current debt crisis by starting undeclared wars in two countries!

quote=Lukelucy]A bad leader can really ruin the system. Very upsetting.[/quote]


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Indeed, just like George Bush ran our country into its current debt crisis by starting undeclared wars in two countries!
> 
> quote=Lukelucy]A bad leader can really ruin the system. Very upsetting.


[/quote]

Really? You mean the wars that were approved by 3/4 of the US Senate and that obama has continued, even now into his second term? Those wars? Let's add on to obama the wars that he started in Libya, Yemen, and Uganda.

obama - 5
Bush - 2

Bush's debt crisis?? obama spent more in his first reign that Bush did in the full 8 years he was in office.

Now, THAT I find upsetting.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on about BO. He has run us further into the ground. He has spent 40% more than Bush! On what? Helping people who don't want to work.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

And on wars that Bush started under false pretenses!

I would bet a whole lot of yarn that the defense budget grew far more than any social welfare programs during the President's first term. Furthermore, he got us out of Iraq and is getting us out of Afghanistan. Would you rather we stay there? And, when you go to look at actual figures, be aware that the money for Iraq and Afghanistan is not reflected in the actual budget - those costs are separate and not reported in the Defense budget - a choice that was made during the Bush administration.


Lukelucy said:


> Right on about BO. He has run us further into the ground. He has spent 40% more than Bush! On what? Helping people who don't want to work.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

False pretenses? You mean his use of the intelligence he had that was from the Clinton administration?



pardoquilts said:


> And on wars that Bush started under false pretenses!
> 
> I would bet a whole lot of yarn that the defense budget grew far more than any social welfare programs during the President's first term. Furthermore, he got us out of Iraq and is getting us out of Afghanistan. Would you rather we stay there? And, when you go to look at actual figures, be aware that the money for Iraq and Afghanistan is not reflected in the actual budget - those costs are separate and not reported in the Defense budget - a choice that was made during the Bush administration.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. Bush went on the intelligence that he got. Why are we talking about Bush. That is paaaaaast history. Let's focus on BO and now. Now is what counts. And it isn't good.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, just like George Bush ran our country into its current debt crisis by starting undeclared wars in two countries!
> ...


Really? You mean the wars that were approved by 3/4 of the US Senate and that obama has continued, even now into his second term? Those wars? Let's add on to obama the wars that he started in Libya, Yemen, and Uganda.

obama - 5
Bush - 2

Bush's debt crisis?? obama spent more in his first reign that Bush did in the full 8 years he was in office.

Now, THAT I find upsetting.[/quote]

Thumper, I have to agree with you. What's happening to our country - and the divisions within it - are a shame.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm surprised that you are not aware that welfare is the single largest item on the federal budget.

As far as I know we are still in Iraq. My youngest son, a lieutenant in the Army, is in charge of deploying some troops there now.

Where do you get your information? You might want to try other places because it's not very good.



pardoquilts said:


> And on wars that Bush started under false pretenses!
> 
> I would bet a whole lot of yarn that the defense budget grew far more than any social welfare programs during the President's first term. Furthermore, he got us out of Iraq and is getting us out of Afghanistan. Would you rather we stay there? And, when you go to look at actual figures, be aware that the money for Iraq and Afghanistan is not reflected in the actual budget - those costs are separate and not reported in the Defense budget - a choice that was made during the Bush administration.
> 
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

courier770 said:


> rocky, scroll up. I've been involved in competitive shooting sports for a very long time. My son competed in shooting in the 2000 Olympics. There is NOTHING wrong with that photo! Shooters shoot by eye dominance NOT hand dominance. A person can be right handed but left eye dominant and you shoot with the dominant eye not the dominant hand. What was he shooting at that was so low? He could have been taking a practice shot or perhaps he is not that good of a skeet shooter, it's not an "easy" sport.
> 
> It IS however a sport that is popular with both conservatives and liberals. In some areas, golf courses hold skeet shoots during winter months. It is considered a "gentleman's/gentlewoman's" sport.
> 
> The young woman who has dominated one of the women's Olympic shotgun events (double trap) happens to be a young lady from the very liberal state of California, whose parents are environmentalists. Don't be so quick to judge.


sorry courier770 that was not meant for you,,,,,just the nay sayers about anything Obama does


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

No, the information he got from his Vice President and a certain General that said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!


thumper5316 said:


> False pretenses? You mean his use of the intelligence he had that was from the Clinton administration?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

It is true the Health and Human Services Budget is larger that the Defense Department budget. That number is $787.8 Billion, but includes Medicaid and Medicare. Which one of those necessary items would you like to eliminate?However, according to the U.S. budget office, the 2012 budget for Defense was $518 Billion, which included a 1/9% increase in pay for the military, and was up by 5 Billion from the previous year. What is NOT included in the official budget is the other $115 Billion for Iraq and Afghanistan., DOWN from $158 Billion from the previous year! That is outside the official budget. I am aware that there are still troops in Iraq, but you cannot deny that most of the troops are out of there. I am grateful for your son's service.


thumper5316 said:


> I'm surprised that you are not aware that welfare is the single largest item on the federal budget.
> 
> As far as I know we are still in Iraq. My youngest son, a lieutenant in the Army, is in charge of deploying some troops there now.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thumper... Thank your son for his service to our country. And thank you for the service of your son. May God Bless him and keep him safe.



thumper5316 said:


> I'm surprised that you are not aware that welfare is the single largest item on the federal budget.
> 
> As far as I know we are still in Iraq. My youngest son, a lieutenant in the Army, is in charge of deploying some troops there now.
> 
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

And the VP and the General got their information from where?

And regarding Iraq not having any WMDs, you might want to ask the thousands of Kurds that they gassed which started the UN monitoring his actions.



pardoquilts said:


> No, the information he got from his Vice President and a certain General that said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Actually, all three of my sons are in the military. The oldest two are in the Air Guard. The oldest got back from a deployment to Afghanistan Nov. 17.



RUKnitting said:


> Thumper... Thank your son for his service to our country. And thank you for the service of your son. May God Bless him and keep him safe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> Indeed, just like George Bush ran our country into its current debt crisis by starting undeclared wars in two countries!
> 
> quote=Lukelucy]A bad leader can really ruin the system. Very upsetting.


[/quote]

Not to mention Pres. Clinton signing the bill that directly led to the housing bubble and the financial crisis we are trying to get out from under.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

New report from CBO states that 7 million will lose their employer based health insurance due to the ACA. The ACA is expensive and will continue to add to rising health care costs. Businesses that can't afford the mandates, regulations and taxes, will pay the penalties. These penalties will add raised revenue for the government. Which is what this administration wants.

It will all be businesses' fault, not the gov't. After all, in the eyes of this administration, businesses are greedy and don't care about the employees .The gov't created the problem of imposing taxes, regulations and mandates that many businesses can't afford with the result of people losing their health insurance. The gov't then offers a "solution" , a single payer system, to the problem they created in the first place. And the cycle continues...

Just another Obama lie... You will be able to keep your current health insurance and your current doctor(s).. It looks like that statement is quickly turning around.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care. 

It is a big mess.

Obama has done a bad thing.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

And the sky is falling, Chicken Little!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> 
> It is a big mess.
> 
> Obama has done a bad thing.


Yes, he has, but it was no accident o knew what he was doing, so all his pre-election speeches, debates and promises were a continuation of his LIES.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Your family is what makes this country great. Safety and Blessings to all.


thumper5316 said:


> Actually, all three of my sons are in the military. The oldest two are in the Air Guard. The oldest got back from a deployment to Afghanistan Nov. 17.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> 
> It is a big mess.
> 
> Obama has done a bad thing.


Businesses have already been leaving the country because they can get cheap labor. How patriotic they are!! How often do you look at a label and see "made in the USA"? The bottom line is that businesses are in business to make a profit, and while many of them are doing nicely, their executives are reaping huge salaries and benefits. I don't have any answers unless we all start buying products made in the USA-- and that's probably not enough. Before anyone cries about how businesses are entitled to make as much as they can, I would argue that they also have responsibilities to their employees and their country. After all, they're citizens, right?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You are right. Lies.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> And the sky is falling, Chicken Little![/quote Would you have believed that 4 years ago we would owe 16 trillion and have 8 % unemployment?


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference? The economic situation at the start of President Obama's first term in office was not of his making. There is no question he was naive about what he and the Democrats would be able to do, but they also couldn't anticipate a group of Congressmen whose only ambition was to say no to everything and attempt to keep him from a second term.


Country Bumpkins said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > And the sky is falling, Chicken Little![/quote Would you have believed that 4 years ago we would owe 16 trillion and have 8 % unemployment?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

They couldn't have done worse. But we will never know.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> 
> It is a big mess.
> 
> Obama has done a bad thing.


As if businesses haven't left this country already. Companies that are greedy do not want to limit their profits by sharing with the working class and yes the minimum wage will stay low beccause eole lie you only care aout themselves.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.


Country Bumpkins said:


> They couldn't have done worse. But we will never know.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> ...


If you care so much, start your own company, put in all your savings, work 16 hours a day, and give all your money to 'the worker'. (Notice the Socialistic words used by the Left. I would have called them employees)

Nothing but pathetic voicing of the victimization of people. It is getting as old as, "What about the children" Please write a new playbook, this is getting so old.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> ...


No, once again WRONG. Not citizens according to the tax code, individuals.

Why don't you focus on the fact that 8.5 million jobs are gone and totally eliminated since Obama took office? Less jobs, less money to spend. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference? The economic situation at the start of President Obama's first term in office was not of his making. There is no question he was naive about what he and the Democrats would be able to do, but they also couldn't anticipate a group of Congressmen whose only ambition was to say no to everything and attempt to keep him from a second term.
> 
> 
> Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> 
> Oh, yeah, I feel so much better that the buffoon Biden is VP. Palin had guts, ability, and could handle a gun. I'll take her any day.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Yes, Ok, individuals. I knew that! And Obama is to blame for that, too. Of course. Why don't you ever blame greedy businesses and corporations?? You people are a one-note tune. And don't forget that we also have a legislature in Washington. A lesgislature in gridlock from republicans behaving like recalcitrant babies, forgetting that they have responsibilities to the American people. I wish Obama had even one percent of the power you ascribe to him. It would be wonderful! We'd have things happen and laws passed that the American people are waiting for Congress to put into effect. It's your right to scream and moan all you please. Just remember that you are the minority in this country, so you can't always have your way.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S. maybe we should send Sarah to Afghanistan to wind down the war and take out some of the enemy.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Thumper, thanks to your boys who serves in the military to protect my freedom. God bless them.

I had three nephews in Iraq and Afghanistan with one a pilot of a F-16 plane. One on the ground as a Marine (sharpshooter). And the last one a gunner on the apache helicopter . They are now safe at home.

Today, my son-in-law is in Afghanistan with another year to go before returning home.

So as some of you can read, we are a family of marksmen!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thumper, thanks to your boys who serves in the military to protect my freedom. God bless them.
> 
> I had three nephews in Iraq and Afghanistan with one a pilot of a F-16 plane. One on the ground as a Marine (sharpshooter). And the last one a gunner on the apache helicopter . They are now safe at home.
> 
> ...


Janeway-- is your last sentence some kind of a threat?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference? The economic situation at the start of President Obama's first term in office was not of his making. There is no question he was naive about what he and the Democrats would be able to do, but they also couldn't anticipate a group of Congressmen whose only ambition was to say no to everything and attempt to keep him from a second term.
> 
> 
> Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> 
> 
> Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Pardoquilts,

You are making terrifying remarks about someone you have "never" met.

I think your sky has already fallen--are you the old Ingried who was thrown off KP for her rude remarks about anyone? You are sounding more an more with your choice of words as if you are Ingried.

Why are you so hateful? Did someone pee in your cornflakes this morning?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference? The economic situation at the start of President Obama's first term in office was not of his making. There is no question he was naive about what he and the Democrats would be able to do, but they also couldn't anticipate a group of Congressmen whose only ambition was to say no to everything and attempt to keep him from a second term.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> ...


Really, Janeway? Talk about rude and crude, but I'm sure your friends will call it hilarious.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Thumper, thanks to your boys who serves in the military to protect my freedom. God bless them.
> ...


Don't understand how you arrived with your thinking the last sentence was a threat. There was nothing threatening just a statement as someone said I should be on the US shooter team for saying I was an excellent shot with a pistol or rifle.

Nephews are excellent shooters and the military recognized them for being marksmen. They are also American Apache Indians who hunt all sort of animals just never humans until the war!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


Well, I'm laughing--why aren't you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

With all the talk of guns and the hatred being spewed all over the place, it might be taken as such(threat).


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


Nope. Don't find it funny, just a little coarse and juvenile---even though I love a good laugh!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

How did the 16 trillion debt and unemployment get on Palin. Talk about a spin!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Janeway allow me to draw it for you. 6**>^< ZZXX the brush is not happy with pardoquilts and I don't know if she will let me do the piucture. I'll try again 6**>^<//\\>^<#5r{{750}]/
Not as good as yours but it will do until you're able. And I ran out of ink.



Janeway said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference? The economic situation at the start of President Obama's first term in office was not of his making. There is no question he was naive about what he and the Democrats would be able to do, but they also couldn't anticipate a group of Congressmen whose only ambition was to say no to everything and attempt to keep him from a second term.
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Wrong again. The majority of the American public DO NOT favor Obama Care AKA ACA



alcameron said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Why didn't he do something wonderful the first two years he was in office? Both houses of the Congress were in dems control. Waiting for your respectful answer. He's an incompetent and we are suffering because of it.



alcameron said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Was that name-calling? "He's an incompetent?" 
Yes, I believe the majority of Americans are not in favor of the ACA, but I think parts of it are very popular. However, when I made the statement that you are in the minority, I was referring to your viewpoint in general, about a number of things. If you hadn't noticed, Romney/Ryan did not win. You have to realize that your views are not popular with the majority of Americans. Just as I don't have people like you in my circle of friends, you probably don't associate with others who aren't in direct opposition to your views. I have republican friends who are not extremists. There is such a thing as a "moderate" republican, and I know several. The extreme right-wing of the repub party is what made the party lose the election---men speaking out about "legitimate rape" and wanting women to have vaginal ultrasounds. This kind of stuff is 50 years behind the times and doesn't stand a chance with today's educated public. Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything other than to say that rigid, right-wing thinking isn't "cutting it" these days.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president. Theodore Roosevelt. Go Teddy!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president. Theodore Roosevelt. Go Teddy!


You just have to put up with Obama the way some us had to live through 8 years of what I thought was an incompetent person in the White House. His election was even in question. That's just how it goes.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > And the sky is falling, Chicken Little![/quote Would you have believed that 4 years ago we would owe 16 trillion and have 8 % unemployment?
> ...


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference?
> 
> I do think he would have been the better choice but needed a more seasoned running mate. McCain is an admirable, long serving patriot who only had the best interests of our country at heart.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

RUKnitting, thanks for the art work. I got the picture! Going to bed--night, night!


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> They couldn't have done worse. But we will never know.


 You can say that again. We'll go down in history for this administrations excesses and screw-ups, if not illegal activities, and incompetent appointees.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

As if businesses haven't left this country already. Companies that are greedy do not want to limit their profits by sharing with the working class and yes the minimum wage will stay low beccause eole lie you only care aout themselves.[/quote]

If you care so much, start your own company, put in all your savings, work 16 hours a day, and give all your money to 'the worker'. (Notice the Socialistic words used by the Left. I would have called them employees)

Nothing but pathetic voicing of the victimization of people. It is getting as old as, "What about the children" Please write a new playbook, this is getting so old.[/quote]

You are correct again. Thanks :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Do you truly believe that McCain and that idiot woman he chose for is VP candidate would have made a difference?
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Biden is much more scary. He has lost his cognitive filter, if you've listened to his many gaffs...perhaps he needs to see his doctor...a man who is a heartbeat away from the presidency should be in full control of his faculties...



CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Biden is much more scary. He has lost his cognitive filter, if you've listened to his many gaffs...perhaps he needs to see his doctor...a man who is a heartbeat away from the presidency should be in full control of his faculties...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Businesses first responsibility is to its bottom line. If it isn't profitable there will be no jobs. ANYONE who puts his life -blood into a business deserves to make a profit and no one should be able, or think he has the right to determine the limits of what that profit can be. Whether YOU think it is greed is not your call unless it is your business. If the employees aren't satisfied with the wages and benefits, they aren't forced to remain there. Remember, this is a Democracy, at least for a little while longer. Perhaps you are an employer and give all your profits to your 'workers'. If so, I apologize.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Janeway, you are speaking my language! Kudos to your family.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

@ RUKnitting....Incompetent, and I fear we're about to learn he is even worse. Every day there is more bad news, more failings on his part, more notices of where his priorities are...not on the jobs, the economy, for sure.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

That's the way I feel. I'm not certain what kind of President McCain would have been, but his choice of Palin was a huge mistake in judgment, and helped him to lose the election. Sarah Palin was in no way qualified to become President, which should be the primary qualification for VP.


alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

6 Signs That Show Our Economy Is Headed in the Wrong Direction
1.	In its most recent budget and economic forecast, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecasted that the economy is expected to grow at a sluggish pace of just 1.4%.
They also expect unemployment to remain above 7.5% this year, noting that 2013 would set a record for the longest period of high unemployment since the Great Depression. [CNSNews.com]
2.	For 192 straight months, the number of American workers collecting federal disability payments has increased. (8,830,026 as of January)
In January of 1997, the last time that figure decreased, there were 24 Americans working full-time for each person collecting disability. Today, there are only 13 Americans working full-time for each person collecting disability. [CNSNews.com]
3.	
If converted into cash payments, total welfare spending in the US equals approximately $168 per day for every household in poverty. Thats higher than the $137 median income per day.
[Senate Budget Committee  Senator Jeff Sessions (R  Alabama)]
4.	If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.  President Barack Obama on Tuesday, August 11th, 2009.
The CBO also estimates that President Obamas health care law will push 7 million people out of their job-based insurance coverage. Thats more than twice the previous estimate.
[Washington Times]
5.	
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP  or food stamps) participation increased 74.9% from October of 2007 to October 2012.
October 2007  27,177,788
October 2012  47,525,329
Thats over 20 million people added. [Food Research and Action Center]
6. 
January of 2013 saw an addition of 157,000 jobs, but the labor force participation rate remained at 63.6%.
Prior to Obama taking office, the last time the labor force participation rate was that low was in December of 1981. [BLS.gov]
BONUS: The CBO projects that the 10-year cumulative deficit is forecast at $6.958 trillion.
Just something to think about...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No, it's known as a descriptive or adjective.
FYI I haven't been a republican for over 10 years. Perhaps you meant who ARE " in direct opposition" Please don't try to characterize my person. I don't know you, nor do you know me. Nor have I discussed rape or vaginal ultrasound. Perhaps you're engaging in Magical Thinking???

I just read that they discovered the next prime number. Very interesting, 17 million digits. Can you imagine that???



alcameron said:


> Was that name-calling? "He's an incompetent?"
> Yes, I believe the majority of Americans are not in favor of the ACA, but I think parts of it are very popular. However, when I made the statement that you are in the minority, I was referring to your viewpoint in general, about a number of things. If you hadn't noticed, Romney/Ryan did not win. You have to realize that your views are not popular with the majority of Americans. Just as I don't have people like you inmy circle of friends, you probably don't associate with others who aren't in direct opposition to your views. I have republican friends who are not extremists. There is such a thing as a "moderate" republican, and I know several. The extreme right-wing of the repub party is what made the party lose the election---men speaking out about "legitimate rape" and wanting women to have vaginal ultrasounds. This kind of stuff is 50 years behind the times and doesn't stand a chance with today's educated public. Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything other than to say that rigid, right-wing thinking isn't "cutting it" these days.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I never paid attention to him until some dem friends called him "The Village Idiot". After that I took notice and quite agree with Momee.


alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Biden is much more scary. He has lost his cognitive filter, if you've listened to his many gaffs...perhaps he needs to see his doctor...a man who is a heartbeat away from the presidency should be in full control of his faculties...
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I'd like to correct something I used the adjective incompetent as a noun. Sorry just want to set the record straight. Something else of interest 4.5 billion 'alien earths' may populate the Milky Way. WOW!!!



RUKnitting said:


> No, it's known as a descriptive or adjective.
> FYI I haven't been a republican for over 10 years. Perhaps you meant who ARE " in direct opposition" Please don't try to characterize my person. I don't know you, nor do you know me. Nor have I discussed rape or vaginal ultrasound. Perhaps you're engaging in Magical Thinking???
> 
> I just read that they discovered the next prime number. Very interesting, 17 million digits. Can you imagine that???
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

It's 2:39 am and everyone is sleeping. Hello anyone out there??

Sleep well my little ones and pleasant dreams to everyone!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway, you should be proud!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

In my humble opinion, having a fiscal conservative, like Sarah Palin, would have been better than the Socialist we have now. She would have protected our Constitutional rights and religious freedoms. She would not have a 'hit list' and assassinated Americans with drone attacks. She would have supported Isreal. She would never have appologized for being an American to the dictators of the Middle East............................


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

The idea that Sarah Palin would be meeting with any foreign leaders or tried to set policy for negotiating in difficult situations is horrifying. I suspect the religious freedoms you speak about involve imposing Christianity on folks who are not believers in that particular religion, and sometime it is a good idea to apologize when a person - or a nation - has been wrong. It shows a great deal of character to say "We were wrong - how can we fix it?" instead of playing the bully! The notion that American is always right doesn't play well on the international scene.


off2knit said:


> In my humble opinion, having a fiscal conservative, like Sarah Palin, would have been better than the Socialist we have now. She would have protected our Constitutional rights and religious freedoms. She would not have a 'hit list' and assassinated Americans with drone attacks. She would have supported Isreal. She would never have appologized for being an American to the dictators of the Middle East............................


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Minnesota is on the 'tighter gun control' bandwagon. So, yesterday there were open hearings at the state capital. Proponents were invited to speak first. When the citizens that are opposed to the measures started speaking the Democrat representatives got up and _walked out! WALKED OUT!!!_

Conservatives are told they need to cross the isle and work with the democrat/liberals. Then why is it that the democrat/liberals _don't even pretend to LISTEN_ to anyone other than those that parrot their stance on an issue?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

I would like to ask all of you just why do you think Presidant Obama won re election?


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Oh, me, me! I think that a majority of the electorate believe that the President has good ideas which have been stymied by the conservative arm of the Republican party. I believe that he speaks to a number of minorities, including immigrant citizens, people who believe that the gender of who you want to marry is nobody's business except yours, the 47% who "don't pay taxes" (except they do, in other ways), and those who believe that a woman is capable of making decisions on her own about her own health! I also think a majority of people understand that simplistic solutions to international problems do not work out very well, and want someone who knows history and geography to be dealing with the rest of the world.


rocky1991 said:


> I would like to ask all of you just why do you think Presidant Obama won re election?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Demos walked out. And who is complaining about the Repubs?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I don't think that Ms. Palin would have been half bad at all. She successfully negotiated with the oil companies, as someone previously mentioned, which was hugely profitable for Alaska. She cut earmark spending and had a high approval rating with the citizens of Alaska. That's just to list a few. There are more if you would care to investigate, which I highly doubt.

You "suspect" that Ms. Palin protecting our religious freedoms "involve imposing Christianity on folks who are not believers in that particular religion"? Paranoid much? That's not what the Constitution condones. Read it and get back to us about what it says regarding religious freedoms.

Acting the bully? What is it that you think the U.S. needs to apologize for and to whom? Perhaps obama needs to apologize to those Americans killed overseas using drone strikes? Fast and Furious? Disastrous economic policies that have cost Americans billions of dollars? Countless bailouts that achieved nothing? High unemployment?

Given what your idea is of being successful it's no wonder that, in your mind, your choice was the better one.



pardoquilts said:


> The idea that Sarah Palin would be meeting with any foreign leaders or tried to set policy for negotiating in difficult situations is horrifying. I suspect the religious freedoms you speak about involve imposing Christianity on folks who are not believers in that particular religion, and sometime it is a good idea to apologize when a person - or a nation - has been wrong. It shows a great deal of character to say "We were wrong - how can we fix it?" instead of playing the bully! The notion that American is always right doesn't play well on the international scene.
> 
> 
> off2knit said:
> ...


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but the thought of Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Presidency was terrifying! It is a good thing we will never know.
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Demos walked out. And who is complaining about the Repubs?


The democrats/liberals, at least here in Minnesota, are always complaining that the Republicans/Conservatives are "the party of 'no'" (I believe that saying 'no' to bad legislation is a good thing), "obstructionists", "refuse to work across the isle", etc. What it really means is that the conservatives won't let the democrats/liberals just have their way all the time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> No, it's known as a descriptive or adjective.
> FYI I haven't been a republican for over 10 years. Perhaps you meant who ARE " in direct opposition" Please don't try to characterize my person. I don't know you, nor do you know me. Nor have I discussed rape or vaginal ultrasound. Perhaps you're engaging in Magical Thinking???
> 
> I just read that they discovered the next prime number. Very interesting, 17 million digits. Can you imagine that???
> ...


If you say "he's incompetent" incompetent is a predicate adjective. If you say he's "an incompetent" you're using 'incompetent" as a predicate nominative, which is a noun, which I think is name-calling, not that you care.
Yes, it should have been "are" in direct opposition not "aren't". Thank you for the correction.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Also, I'm not trying to characterize anyone's "person," I'm just responding based on the viewpoints you express. All of you express a right-wing, extremist viewpoint, wouldn't you agree?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Demos walked out. And who is complaining about the Repubs?
> ...


There's a difference in being obstructionists and voting against bad lesgislation. The repubs are proud of being obstructionists, they want to be obstructionists, and don't care if the legislation is good or bad. Their job is to look at legislation or propose legislation and try to reconcile differences. Their job is to do what is right and what makes sense for the people. Their duty is to make things work through compromise. Don't tell me that the Congressional repubs are trying to compromise when they have publicly announced what their goal is---at which, by the way, they didn't succeed.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I don't think that Ms. Palin would have been half bad at all. She successfully negotiated with the oil companies, as someone previously mentioned, which was hugely profitable for Alaska. She cut earmark spending and had a high approval rating with the citizens of Alaska. That's just to list a few. There are more if you would care to investigate, which I highly doubt.
> 
> You "suspect" that Ms. Palin protecting our religious freedoms "involve imposing Christianity on folks who are not believers in that particular religion"? Paranoid much? That's not what the Constitution condones. Read it and get back to us about what it says regarding religious freedoms.
> 
> ...


Offtoknit..........you say socialist, just how is Obama a socialist? Explain what socialism is and compare that to what Obama has done.


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't believe my viewpoint is extreme and I don't think yours are extreme. I think the governments policies are extreme.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Demos walked out. And who is complaining about the Repubs?
> ...


You mean saying "no" to bills putting people back to work is in our best interest?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > No, it's known as a descriptive or adjective.
> ...


Oh, good, now we get an update on an English lesson. I thought the rules were since this "should" be just write from your heart, then "NO" corrections on grammar!

You have been very kind to me and I know you have a kind heart, so why are you being so hateful to others who are not of your political thinking? Please show others your "kind" side as you have shown me.

What do you have on your needles? I'll bet you are very good at your crafts.


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I always said Obama needed to go.


The country had the chance - but Obama won. ObamaCare might have been repealed if Romney had made it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I said, and I quote, "I believe that saying 'no' to bad legislation is a good thing". Where did I say anything about putting people back to work? Or are you just trying to obfuscate?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


Janeway, I had to respond because she was the one to give me a grammar lesson, and she got it wrong! I agree with you, mistakes in writing on a forum like this should not be that important.
Right now I'm making hats for my homeless guys at our church while contemplating my next project.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You are so correct, she had administrative/ executive experience. She was a very strong leader in Alaska. If Obama had had those skills he would have understood the importance of compromise and transparency which he promised but never delivered. He would have understood the concept of budgets and working with others for a reasonable solution. His style of governance is not representative of a strong leader. His governing style is dictatorial and he has attempted to bring us to totalitarianism. Yes Sarah Palin was better prepared to assume the office of the presidency than our dear leader.


joeysomma said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > That's the way I feel. I'm not certain what kind of President McCain would have been, but his choice of Palin was a huge mistake in judgment, and helped him to lose the election. Sarah Palin was in no way qualified to become President, which should be the primary qualification for VP.
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You are so correct, she had administrative/ executive experience. She was a very strong leader in Alaska. If Obama had had those skills he would have understood the importance of compromise and transparency which he promised but never delivered. He would have understood the concept of budgets and working with others for a reasonable solution. His style of governance is not representative of a strong leader. His governing style is dictatorial and he has attempted to bring us to totalitarianism. Yes Sarah Palin was better prepared to assume the office of the presidency than our dear leader.


joeysomma said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > That's the way I feel. I'm not certain what kind of President McCain would have been, but his choice of Palin was a huge mistake in judgment, and helped him to lose the election. Sarah Palin was in no way qualified to become President, which should be the primary qualification for VP.
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Alcameron, bless you for thinking about the homeless. On my last birthday, my girls gave me a $100. dollar bill to buy whatever I wanted/needed. I had a rare (for me) lunch with friends and one was talking about having a difficult time getting funds to buy bottled water for the homeless.

Well I still had the money so I gave it to her. My girls were not upset with me as I told them it made me happy to give so others could have water to drink. I did not really need anything but did feel good in the heart.

We all should care about our fellow man who may be in need much more than we are at the time.

We have vets who are homeless--bless their hearts they put their lives on the line for us then return home to no jobs nor any home! Shame on us! My heart goes out to them as if I had more money, I would try to help them.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

T


off2knit said:


> In my humble opinion, having a fiscal conservative, like Sarah Palin, would have been better than the Socialist we have now. She would have protected our Constitutional rights and religious freedoms. She would not have a 'hit list' and assassinated Americans with drone attacks. She would have supported Isreal. She would never have appologized for being an American to the dictators of the Middle East............................


I agree, but she was such an unknown to the voters....and her opponents did everything they could to discredit her accomplishments. I do like her no nonsense approach and she calls it like she sees it. So many politicians are afraid to do that...always fearing they'll lose votes inthe next election. 
Which makes me think-- term limits are needed as well as eliminating the Electoral College. It is time for each vote to be counted. It is also time for valid voter registration-- ? Finger prints and birth certificate? No ore. Voter fraud or suspicion of it. What do you all think?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

lukka said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RosieC said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I always said Obama needed to go.
> ...


Many voters still don't believe that o "won" .


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You are so correct, she had administrative/ executive experience. She was a very strong leader in Alaska. If Obama had had those skills he would have understood the importance of compromise and transparency which he promised but never delivered. He would have understood the concept of budgets and working with others for a reasonable solution. His style of governance is not representative of a strong leader. His governing style is dictatorial and he has attempted to bring us to totalitarianism. Yes Sarah Palin was better prepared to assume the office of the presidency than our dear leader...
> 
> So very true.
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> RosieC said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


If he din't "win" why o they think that?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > You are so correct, she had administrative/ executive experience. She was a very strong leader in Alaska. If Obama had had those skills he would have understood the importance of compromise and transparency which he promised but never delivered. He would have understood the concept of budgets and working with others for a reasonable solution. His style of governance is not representative of a strong leader. His governing style is dictatorial and he has attempted to bring us to totalitarianism. Yes Sarah Palin was better prepared to assume the office of the presidency than our dear leader...
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > You are so correct, she had administrative/ executive experience. She was a very strong leader in Alaska. If Obama had had those skills he would have understood the importance of compromise and transparency which he promised but never delivered. He would have understood the concept of budgets and working with others for a reasonable solution. His style of governance is not representative of a strong leader. His governing style is dictatorial and he has attempted to bring us to totalitarianism. Yes Sarah Palin was better prepared to assume the office of the presidency than our dear leader...
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > RosieC said:
> ...


He was only able to get re-elected due to the votes bought from the uneducated, uninformed voters that liked what they were getting from him in the way of welfare. Romney would have been a far better choice.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


Go on believing that the voters who voted for Obama were uninformed and uneducated if it makes you feel better.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Thank you. And you go on believing that he's competent and a great statesman if it makes you feel better.


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

Our country is 16.5 Trillion in debt. That can never be made right, that can never be paid off and you are talking about Alaska and Sara Palin! Obama and Biden are residents of the white house yet the Obama Biden voters are the biggest whinners and complainers on these forums.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Gov. Palin didn't need people to discredit her - she did that all by herself. She proved her devotion to duty by quitting as governor after she lost the national election.


momeee said:


> T
> 
> 
> off2knit said:
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Businesses will leave the country and not have to abide by the laws. Plus, companies will keep employees at a minimum and that will avoid costs. It is cheaper to pay the penalty than give employees health care.
> ...


Businesses are/have left the country because Congresses, past and both Dem and Rep, have made it worthwhile for them to do so through all the treaties that were signed. I agree we need to buy made in USA products, but first we have to get those products back to being made in the USA. This country needs to start making products again. It doesn't seem that either party wants to do anything about it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

You need to read up on why she quit. The points you have cited below are nothing more than personal opinions and have no bearing on the facts.



pardoquilts said:


> Gov. Palin didn't need people to discredit her - she did that all by herself. She proved her devotion to duty by quitting as governor after she lost the national election.
> 
> 
> momeee said:
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


Bought........are ou for real? They may have been the "47%" but certainly not bought, The Reps tried to buy the election but peiople are smarter than you think. Carl Rove won 1% of the people he sponsered, Reps lost fair and suare.......even with voter supression being spread and failed. Way to go American people!!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Why don't you ever include Harry Reid in your obstructionist ranttings. He is the biggest obstructionist around and freely admits it. He is constantly saying that he will not bring bills passed in the House up for a vote in the Senate. He gets away with that over and over again, talk about gridlock. He too has responsibilities to the American people.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Very nice gesture. As our children were growing up for their birthday along with their presents we would give them money which they had to give away to any cause they choose. This was our way of teaching them the joy of being philanthropic. And it worked.


Janeway said:


> Alcameron, bless you for thinking about the homeless. On my last birthday, my girls gave me a $100. dollar bill to buy whatever I wanted/needed. I had a rare (for me) lunch with friends and one was talking about having a difficult time getting funds to buy bottled water for the homeless.
> 
> Well I still had the money so I gave it to her. My girls were not upset with me as I told them it made me happy to give so others could have water to drink. I did not really need anything but did feel good in the heart.
> 
> ...


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> Gov. Palin didn't need people to discredit her - she did that all by herself. She proved her devotion to duty by quitting as governor after she lost the national election.
> 
> 
> momeee said:
> ...


I think the Reps should come into the 21st century. The whole world has changed. The Reps need to be etter informed and not believe in 19th century thinking. Women,, Blacks, Latinos, Asians have the right to vote, They understand how the Rep party is trying to keep them out of the conversatuon. However, the Reps continue to shoot themselves in the foot by the stupod things they say........a la Bobbin Jindal, who is among the stupid. But he tried to inform Reps that they can not continue to perpetuate stupidity. I, for one, welcome the stupid remarks. It means the Reps will be out of contention for a few more voting cycles. It is to their avantage, now, that many of their districts have been gerrymandered to the poiunt that no Dem can win, but that too will change, Talk about the shiners on this site......Reps do more than their share. Too bad for you that Obama/Biden won. Sour grapes never really taste good, do they?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Since you brought up the subject how about your reference on the Alaska debt.



alcameron said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


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## lukka (Dec 16, 2012)

Rocky, there's enough stupid remarks to go around.Try to be fair....Remember it's the shared responsibility era.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Give me a break!!!! This applies to the democrats as well. They have not been on the compromise bandwagon either. They just stated that Republicans were obstructionists to keep the light off of their own actions. It takes both sides to compromise, it takes both sides to get things done. It takes both sides to grow up and do the job they were elected to do.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > Gov. Palin didn't need people to discredit her - she did that all by herself. She proved her devotion to duty by quitting as governor after she lost the national election.
> ...


Today I live in the moment unless it's unpleasant in which case I will eat a cookie!

Let us all enjoy a cookie together shall we? I'll put on the coffee/tea pot. Cream and sugar?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janeway said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


Tall half caf espresso soy caramel macchiato, please.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Just to refresh our minds lets take a trip down memory lane....Do You Remember.....Special Olympics remark on Jay Leno? or Gift to Gordon Brown (represented the people of USA) and his gift to us (not properly acknowledged)? Nancy Reagan remark for which he later apologized? Denigration of Pennsylvania people? And claiming to have been to all 57 states? Went to Burma (at the time) and called it Mayanmar? And mispronounced it? A slap in the face for those risking their lives at that time for democracy. Tried to kiss Aung San Su Kyi and she pulled away but he had his hand around her Chicago style. And she actually did something for her Nobel Prize. Guess he didn't know he was in Asia and not Hyde Park. This could be scandalous for her in her culture And as awkward as a first date . And didn't he say they speak Austrian? He must have been skipping those protocol briefings. Yes he did! He bowed to Emperor Akihito like a gardner not like the visiting head of state from the USA. And the too many to mention teleprompter mishaps and then we found that he even used one when talking to high school students. UUHHH.. Then there was "Three proud words" Made in the USA. But math has never been his stong point.

And then there is Biden who expressed his surprise by the ending of the film "Lincoln" Really? I'll bet Sarah Palin would have gotten that question correct. And to think Dan Quayle misspelled a fruit and the whole country knew about it.

And how many people who voted knew about these gaffes? We owe it to the well-informed USA voter. Does anyone have anything to add? Let's meet with our publishers.



lukka said:


> Rocky, there's enough stupid remarks to go around.Try to be fair....Remember it's the shared responsibility era.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


I'll take that double expresso now if you still have any.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I think the Dems should remain quiet until they pass a budget in the Senate and send it to the House.

They are in violation of the law, and have not had a budget in over 4+ years. Talk about obstructionists. 

So they should put up (a budget) or shut up. AND NO MORE EXTENTIONS let the budget cuts happen. Obama wanted it, got it, now let him live with his consequences. And hope he doesn't blame the past administration, because that was him


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
And I'm getting tired of this "your guy's more stupid than my guy." We simply disagree, and have different philosophies about what we think is needed for the good of the country. Just keep letting your representatives know how you feel and what you want from them. Expend your energy in a useful way.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
> And I'm getting tired of this "your guy's more stupid than my guy." We simply disagree, and have different philosophies about what we think is needed for the good of the country. Just keep letting your representatives know how you feel and what you want from them. Expend your energy in a useful way.


Never used the word stupid, so please stop projecting. And I would appreciate it if you would not lecture me on how to use my energy, that is in my opinion is rude. I still have choices, and how I use my energy and time is still a choice until some Czar in the administration writes a regulation for that.

All I know is that history is repeating itself. After 9/11 we were not attacked again. For 8 years we were safe and so were our troops and ambassadors. So Obama sends drones to kill Americans and innocent children, Clinton bombs an aspirin factory, our embassies are attacked, our friend (Isreal) is attacked and bombed by terrorists and we are suppose to feel safe.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I just thought voicing your opinions to your representatives and/or in exercising your right to vote is more productive than doing what we're doing right now. That's all. No need to "get your bloomers in a bunch." I wouldn't presume to lecture you.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I think the Dems should remain quiet until they pass a budget in the Senate and send it to the House.
> 
> They are in violation of the law, and have not had a budget in over 4+ years. Talk about obstructionists.
> 
> So they should put up (a budget) or shut up. AND NO MORE EXTENTIONS let the budget cuts happen. Obama wanted it, got it, now let him live with his consequences. And hope he doesn't blame the past administration, because that was him


Interesting, we have so many indications of this administration's ineptitude, get criticized by o supporters, yet the can not list any accomplishments - of which we could be proud - of O's, can they?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: right again.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
> And I'm getting tired of this "your guy's more stupid than my guy." We simply disagree, and have different philosophies about what we think is needed for the good of the country. Just keep letting your representatives know how you feel and what you want from them. Expend your energy in a useful way.


Four years of obama has been more than enough for me. Now I get to pay more with obama and the more that I get to pay is not insignificant. 4 years of obama, to me, are no comparison to the 8 years with Bush. I disliked Bush. I abhore obama.

I might, on some philosophical ideals, agree. However, because of those who are in the liberal political camp, I am paying more than my fair share to the government so that some, who pay nothing, continue to pay nothing but receive more than the nothing they contribute. Excuse me. I find that wrong.

I wouldn't have so much of a problem if, at some point, I had a deciding factor in who received money from me and for what.

Yes, it would make a difference. After all, someone has to judge. Who are you to judge who is the judge? That's part of the problem today.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

...And we wouldn't have had this tragedy, I'd bet.
Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta provided testimony to a Senate hearing today regarding President Obamas involvement, or lack thereof, during the 9/11 anniversary attack at a Benghazi, Libya diplomatic compound that left four American servicemen dead. The head civilian defense official implies repeatedly that the president was AWOL or absent without leave after giving a general directive to deal with the matter.
Unbelievable. So it is true that the president received the briefing within 90 minutes of the attack and then prepared to set off for a Las Vegas fundraiser without so much as checking back on the American diplomats and servicemen missing, killed by terrorists, or abandoned in harms way.
Read it here:
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/02/34896-secretary-of-defense-commander-in-chief-barack-obama-awol-during-benghazi-terrorist-attack/



thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And I know you don't mean to forget the most recent Benghazi. What happened there was criminal. How can the people in the State Department or our fine military troops have any confidence in their Commander in Chief if he doesn't take responsibility for his non-actions and shoves it to his Secretary of State so she can be his fall gal.


off2knit said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm going to spend more time knitting. I want to try out some new things and put my time to better use. Bye for now.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just thought voicing your opinions to your representatives and/or in exercising your right to vote is more productive than doing what we're doing right now. That's all. No need to "get your bloomers in a bunch." I wouldn't presume to lecture you.


Oh, there are "no wedgie" panties which I'm sure off2knit is aware of so she could not get her bloomers in a bunch.

Need a cookie?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I just thought voicing your opinions to your representatives and/or in exercising your right to vote is more productive than doing what we're doing right now. That's all. No need to "get your bloomers in a bunch." I wouldn't presume to lecture you.
> ...


Janeway, I'm an excellent cookie baker and today I had knitting group at my house, so we have some left over. They're delicious!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


What kind did you make? I'll bet you are a good cook.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Andrea haven
t you posted your cookies before? If I remember they looked yummy. Never any cookies left at my house . I love cookies.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, guess everyone ate too many cookies as everyone is gone from this site! 

Oh, well, I will just have to knit and enjoy a cookie all alone!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

I think everyone is hunkered down for the duration of the blizzard....but can't let the media's bias slide into obscurity...
If anyone care- here it is:

10 Headline Stories the Pro-Obama Media Under-Reported

Major news media are so in-the-tank for the current administration that they have only rarely been covering in serious fashion any news that would be damaging to the Obama administration.

The following are headline stories in 2013 that the news media are largely ignoring. SHARE this with low-information voters who think news is the latest pregnancy update from Beyoncé. 

1.	NBC leaked a memo showing the Obama administration claims the right to kill American citizens without trial using drones. Left-wing media have been muted in their criticism of the administration.
As recently discovered, the following occurred in 2012: Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki, a 16-year-old American citizen from Denver, was killed in a drone strike in Yemen. Abdulrahman Al-Aulaqi was the son of terrorist Anwar al-Aulaqi. He did not have a trial. He was never waterboarded. He was sixteen. Barack Obama dropped a bomb on his head. (Jim Hoft, The Gateway Pundit) Can you imagine the uproar if this happened under the Bush administration? 

2.	Attorney General Eric Holder began carrying out some of the 23 gun control actions ordered by Obama. Attorney General Holder is implicated in the Fast and Furious gunrunning operation to Mexican drug cartels, which resulted in the death of dozens of Mexican civilians and U.S. border patrol agent Brian Terry. Holder will be in charge of various gun control policies.


3.	Despite the rosy blush by left-wing media that the War in Afghanistan may be winding down, it is still ongoing and American troops are still dying. At last count, 2177 U.S. troops have died in a war whose objective apparently was not victory. More than 70% of all troops in the eleven-year war were killed on President Obamas watch. 

4.	In the summer of 2012, national security information was leaked by high-ranking Obama administration officials that served to bolster the presidents image as a tough-on-terror commander-in-chief. In February 2013, CIA director nominee John Brennan agreed that the media-ignored leaks absolutely damaged sensitive programs and operations. Even though ABC jumped on the Aurora mass killing to push a debunked tea party connection, the mainstream media have redacted all connection of three mass murderers to left-wing politics. 

5.	At Benghazi hearings this week, high-ranking Obama officials confirmed: President Obama was absent and no military aid was dispatched while U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens was tortured and murdered, along with the killing of diplomat Sean Smith. During the eight hour long raid, CIA security Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty were abandoned to fight off overwhelmingly superior numbers until they were killed by mortar fire.
Mainstream media outlets carried their regularly scheduled program and did not extensively cover the developing story for the major scandal that it is. 

6.	Nkosi Thandiwe killed college students after he explained he learned to hate white people while in college. LGBT volunteer Floyd Corkins carried a bag of Chick-fil-A sandwiches into the Family Research Center in August 2012, and shot a security guard after reading an SPLC website. He plead guilty this week. Chris Dorner, a fugitive mass-murderer, went on a killing spree after writing a manifesto that praised President Obama and the Democrats in a passage. (H/T Gateway Pundit)
Dorner is also a gun control supporter and fan of Piers Morgan. The media have not been reporting any such political views, not that they are particularly relevant. 

7	The Daily Caller reported shortly before the election that Bob Menendez had been seeing prostitutes in the Dominican Republic for years. The media remained silent on the matter, although news recently came out that the FBI has been investigating Menendez for frequenting underage prostitutes since 2012. 

8.	The increasing costs of Obamacare were entirely predictable, but dont expect the mainstream media to side with those who warned about them. As Newsbusters reported, the CBO now estimates that Obamacare subsidies, which are to be offered through exchanges beginning in 2014, will cost 29% more than the CBO initially projected in 2010. The projected 10-year cost recently increased by $233 billion and is now three times its original pricetag. 

9.	As Daily Finance reported, experts predict rising commodity prices will result in up to a 5% increase in food prices in 2013  and perhaps even into early 2014  leading to higher grocery bills and restaurant tabs for consumers. And those bills may get even higher, thanks to new nutrition information packaging requirements in Obamacare. (Townhall) 

10.	Although the government says there is little or no inflation, and the mainstream media play right along, gas prices are up again in 2013. They are currently 1.5 times the average $1.20 gas price when President Obama took office in 2009.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

No blizzard where I am, just got tired of all the political stuff. We're made of more than politics, right? I hope this blizzard doesn't cause a lot of damage or death. It's a gray day here, so I think it's walking the dogs, knitting, and making dinner for me.
Janeway---the cookies were actually bars. Chocolate and Peanut Butter Chip Meringue Bars. Nummy!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing can compare to the 8 years of Bush, II.
> ...


Actually Bin Laden only wanted bigger and better attacks. It's not that Bush kept us safe.how safe were our troops in Iraq, how many died, why did they die, vor what reason did they lose their lives? Why did we invade Iraq?
I'd rather have drones attack than our troops attacked. The rules of war have changed forever. If an American joins the terrorists, I believe he is a terrorist, I really don't care how we get him. Drones are fin with me.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> off2knit said:
> 
> 
> > I think the Dems should remain quiet until they pass a budget in the Senate and send it to the House.
> ...


Your opinion not mine or those who vote him into office again.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Pro-Obama Media stories under reported? According to the anti-Obama media or who?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

momeee said:


> I think everyone is hunkered down for the duration of the blizzard....but can't let the media's bias slide into obscurity...
> If anyone care- here it is:
> 
> 10 Headline Stories the Pro-Obama Media Under-Reported
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Just spent $60+ to fill my tank. Gotta love Obama and his change


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

@ off2knit -yup, he sure took away Hope, and made lotsof Change...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Do you think the oil industry needs to be regulated?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh quick questions, because I want to be green...

What is more recyclable, water/spriter used in water boarding or a a drone?

What is it more transparent, drones or the Obama Administration?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you think the oil industry needs to be regulated?


Oh yeah. That's just what we need. A government takeover of another industry. Not.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think the oil industry needs to be regulated?
> ...


I guess we shouldn't complain about gas prices then.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think the oil industry needs to be regulated?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


So we just pay the price. We wouldn't want any regs!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> No blizzard where I am, just got tired of all the political stuff. We're made of more than politics, right? I hope this blizzard doesn't cause a lot of damage or death. It's a gray day here, so I think it's walking the dogs, knitting, and making dinner for me.
> Janeway---the cookies were actually bars. Chocolate and Peanut Butter Chip Meringue Bars. Nummy!


No blizzard in Indiana but it gave us cold weather with 19 degrees in the AM.

I don't eat chocolate but grands do so could you share the recipe? Thanks.

I have sour dough ready to bake bread tomorrow for home made bread. Will share recipe if anyone is interested.

I have one sour dough made with "wild" yeast and one made with a pkg of dry yeast. Both makes good bread and uses bread machine to mix dough then let rise in loaf pan and bake.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Pro-Obama Media stories under reported? According to the anti-Obama media or who?


Hi Alcameron - haven't been around for ages. see nothing is changed. going to leave again before my temperature rises. give me a shout sometime. Hope you are back home and feeling better. take care. Shirley


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > off2knit said:
> ...


Right on: the majority of Americans voted him in - usually that means the majority wanted him as President.


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## Sylvia Rae (Jan 25, 2013)

I was under the impression that we could post what we wanted to. If you do not like the topic, go to another one . Everyone is not interested in the same things, that is why we have different forums . Do not put down people's views, we all have different ones. Let's all be considerate and not hurt each other with ugly comments. Do not ruin a persons day, your day could be next.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Did anyone happen to hear Dr Ben Carson of Hopkins fame at the Prayer Breakfast? WOW! He makes so much sense and he touched on the death panels and taxes. And O wasn't grinning.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Did anyone happen to hear Dr Ben Carson of Hopkins fame at the Prayer Breakfast? WOW! He makes so much sense and he touched on the death panels and taxes. And O wasn't grinning.


Yes, I just heard him. Wasn't he fabulous? And what a role model he could be for kids who have a difficult life or who THINK they are owed something. I loved him!!!!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Sylvia Rae said:


> I was under the impression that we could post what we wanted to. If you do not like the topic, go to another one . Everyone is not interested in the same things, that is why we have different forums . Do not put down people's views, we all have different ones. Let's all be considerate and not hurt each other with ugly comments. Do not ruin a persons day, your day could be next.


Thanks for your view as yes we should be allowed to express our views without being called names.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Stayed away for a bit, so as not to get into what left is right and right is wrong. 

Goverment is now on the down side. Obama is not even interested in putting forth a budget. So don't worry we will just continue on with the spending that is being done.
Harry Reid is on the same page as the President. Plan on the sky is falling, and save what you can now. Thats if the goverment continues and they will. 

Yes the sky is falling thanks to goverment and what lays ahead. Yeah the sky is falling and you will not have to worry about it. The sky is falling and isn't it nice to know that you will be repeating it, and wonder why??????


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

momeee said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone happen to hear Dr Ben Carson of Hopkins fame at the Prayer Breakfast? WOW! He makes so much sense and he touched on the death panels and taxes. And O wasn't grinning.
> ...


No, I didn't hear anything about this. I wonder if there is some way I could find it. Maybe You Tube ?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Sylvia Rae said:
> 
> 
> > I was under the impression that we could post what we wanted to. If you do not like the topic, go to another one . Everyone is not interested in the same things, that is why we have different forums . Do not put down people's views, we all have different ones. Let's all be considerate and not hurt each other with ugly comments. Do not ruin a persons day, your day could be next.
> ...


Happily, most of us are on your page, I think.    :thumbup: :thumbup: Thanks for the input.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RosieC said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


 Go to Hannity,com and look at his shows using the doctor's name. I'm not that familiar with his site but caught the rebroadcast late at night while I was knitting and flipping channels.


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

I found the video of Dr. Carson.....it is really well worth watching- I loved it !!!!

Thanks Gals


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

RosieC said:


> I found the video of Dr. Carson.....it is really well worth watching- I loved it !!!!
> 
> Thanks Gals


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Raybo said:


> Oh good grief! Here we go again.


Indeedy. Quite a few insurance companies upped their premiums for smokers way before Obamacare.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Not a tad at all to those of us who live in reality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just as being told which doctor, what hospital, what medical tests and procedures you are entitled to is socialism.

Which has been practiced for years in this country by insurance companies. Go out of network, pay more. If a test or procedure isn't approved, pay for it all or don't get it. Is this socialism, greed, or good business practice on the part of the insurer?

Karen N.


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I read this earlier today and wondered...will alcoholics pay more? What about drug addicts? What about those who are morbidly obese? Let's add those who engage in certain, high risk, sports...horseback riding, skiing, snowboarding, rollerblading, sky diving, and of course football! FYI, I'm being sarcastic, sort of!


HOCKEY, too!!!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Big Bill Board on the way to Milwaukee.

All it said in big letters.

How do you like the change now.

How's that for a sign????


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

The election is OVER! The American people have spoken! They must have liked the change just fine. To my way of thinking there hasn't been enough change, but I'm hopeful of the next four years. Your candidate lost. Get over it!


theyarnlady said:


> Big Bill Board on the way to Milwaukee.
> 
> All it said in big letters.
> 
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> The election is OVER! The American people have spoken! They must have liked the change just fine. To my way of thinking there hasn't been enough change, but I'm hopeful of the next four years. Your candidate lost. Get over it!
> 
> 
> theyarnlady said:
> ...


I agree. Not enough change!! We must be socialists!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Ah you sound so sad you don't like the bill board??

I did and so did everone who honk at it as they pass it. 

who ever paid to put it up there, woo hoo am proud of them. 
To funny for words.

Not all the American's have spoken, seem a few do not agree.:~O


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## kittykatzmom (Mar 1, 2011)

Then don't read the topic.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Not at all sad. Just think it is a big waste. As I said, the american electorate spoke. Romney lost. The President will be in the White House for four more years. Sour grapes make bitter wine.


theyarnlady said:


> Ah you sound so sad you don't like the bill board??
> 
> I did and so did everone who honk at it as they pass it.
> 
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> The election is OVER! The American people have spoken! They must have liked the change just fine. To my way of thinking there hasn't been enough change, but I'm hopeful of the next four years. Your candidate lost. Get over it!
> 
> 
> theyarnlady said:
> ...


I like it just fine!!!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Ah you sound so sad you don't like the bill board??
> 
> I did and so did everone who honk at it as they pass it.
> 
> ...


Not Eough!! Obama rocks!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Big Bill Board on the way to Milwaukee.
> 
> All it said in big letters.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: very appropriate...and sad. I should have qualified my "sad"...Sad for the country and the state of decline we've been led into.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Should we be also getting over Benghazi and a drone murder of a 16 year American citizen? Or is that the previous administration's fault too? No wait, that would be the Obama administration's responsibility.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Should we be also getting over Benghazi and a drone murder of a 16 year American citizen? Or is that the previous administration's fault too? No wait, that would be the Obama administration's responsibility.


No we should never forget. Thecriminal members of the administration must be brought to justice.
And regarding the election, I, for one, will never believe the election was "won" by o. There was clearly voter fraud and many votes not counted.

New regs need to be instituted before the next election to guard against this kind of criminal activity. And, no, I don't think Bush "won" his 2nd election either.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

If the election is over why is he still politicing?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> The election is OVER! The American people have spoken! They must have liked the change just fine. To my way of thinking there hasn't been enough change, but I'm hopeful of the next four years. Your candidate lost. Get over it!
> 
> 
> theyarnlady said:
> ...


So, just because my candidate did not win I need to put up and shut up?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If the election is over why is he still politicing?


1. because he thinks that is what working consists of - someone should tell him exactly what needs to be done - budget, national security, being accountable, cleaning up his messes....

2.because he is trying to raise more money - for his vacations, his retirement, to donate some to the failing economy, or his third run as president, perhaps.

3. because he is the most narcissistic person in office and he never saw a camera that he didn't wanted to romance.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

!


joeysomma said:


> Yes the election is over and the sheeple have voted Obama in for aother 4 years. They voted with their pocket books, they voted for Obama because of the benefits they think Obama will give them. They have no concern for the future of our country.


Amen :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > If the election is over why is he still politicing?
> ...


Your comments about the president serve no purpose other than for you to vent your anger and hatred. There is nothing of substance here. You just don't have a basis for your rants other than hatred. I think that moderate people from both sides are getting tired of it. We already know how you feel, you should have gotten it out of your system, and it's time to move on.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

You have not moved on over Bush and it has been over 4 years. I am concerned about my grandkids and my kids future it has not a thing to do with hatred. I will move on in 2016.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You have not moved on over Bush and it has been over 4 years. I am concerned about my grandkids and my kids future it has not a thing to do with hatred. I will move on in 2016.


My comment wasn't for you, Country Bumpkins. It was for the person who offered the 3 reasons for hating Obama.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh, then excuse me for interupting.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't believe President Obama will be of any particular benefit to me personally. I didn't vote for him because of my pocketbook. Your assumption that I don't have any concern for the future of our country is outrageously offensive! How dare you? I had many reasons to cast my vote for the President. Just because you don't agree with me, what gives you the right to assume I don't care about the future? I don't agree with you and other people about what is the best way to accomplish things. Perhaps we don't agree on what actually would be the best for our country. I assume that most people who differ from me in their opinion about the direction we should follow and the way we should get there are still people of good will. Clearly I am wrong about that!


joeysomma said:


> Yes the election is over and the sheeple have voted Obama in for aother 4 years. They voted with their pocket books, they voted for Obama because of the benefits they think Obama will give them. They have no concern for the future of our country.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> momeee said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


The real reason he continues to politic is "That's all he knows what to do" He doesn't know how to put a budget together which we desperately need. He doesn't know how to bring people with opposing viewpoints together to reach a compromise. He doesn't know what are the responsibilities of The Commander in Chief. Just to mention a few. All this coupled with his do nothing laziness. And wasn't he on his way to politicing when there was no follow-up call regarding Bengahzi. Absentee Commander in Chief.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

pardoquilts said:


> I don't believe President Obama will be of any particular benefit to me personally. I didn't vote for him because of my pocketbook. Your assumption that I don't have any concern for the future of our country is outrageously offensive! How dare you? I had many reasons to cast my vote for the President. Just because you don't agree with me, what gives you the right to assume I don't care about the future? I don't agree with you and other people about what is the best way to accomplish things. Perhaps we don't agree on what actually would be the best for our country. I assume that most people who differ from me in their opinion about the direction we should follow and the way we should get there are still people of good will. Clearly I am wrong about that!
> 
> 
> joeysomma said:
> ...


Pardoquilts WHY did you vote for him? Please be specific. I'd love to try and understand your viewpoint. I don't think you voted for him as some did.....because of what they could get from the government. Is it your opinion that the government is best to solve our problems? And what do you see as the vision for our country under his leadership??


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > momeee said:
> ...


First of all, it is you who is pronouncing that the president is politicking. That's your opinion. You go on to list things he doesn't "know how to do." That, too, is your opinion. He's far more educated than I and probably you, too. He is dealing with a group of republicans in Congress who hate his guts and refuse to cooperate with any Democrat, so how can he bring about compromise? In my opinion, he's already been too conciliatory. And to say that he has "do-nothing laziness" is a blatant rascist remark. Move over, John Sununu, there's a new gal in town. Why don't you offer some constructive ideas for ending gridlock? Can you deny that repubs have refused to work with him? Every thing you have said about the president is at the very least, mean-spirited and spiteful and at the worst hateful and vitriolic. Hasn't your venting brought you relief yet?


----------



## Bona (Feb 23, 2012)

One of the true pleasures of knitting is that we can knit and tolerate each other's views. 

Another true pleasure of knitting (for me, at least) is being able to sit, knit, and listen to TV and go "tsk, tsk, tsk" at whatever politician or news commentator happens to be sharing his or her way of improving the world--or fussing about another politician or news commentator whom he/she dislikes. 

I have solved quite a few of the world's problems while knitting thus


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

alcameron said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


That's "racist"


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I will try to answer as best I can. First, I believe that government is the only way we are going to solve some of our problems. I absolutely believe, for example, what my own physician says - that the best run, easiest to deal with, most useful for his patients program he sees is Medicare. He - and I - believe that a government run, single payer, health care system would make things more fair for everyone. I believe that there are people who need help just to put food on their tables, to keep a roof over the heads of their families. I believe that government is a much better vehicle for assisting those people than individual charities, which often run out of funds, and, thus, are unable to give assistance to those who need it most. I believe that we are supposed to help our neighbors as much as we can. I believe we need research and development to move forward in many scientific fields, and that depending on the whims of private business, which will do this kind of work only if they see a profit in it, is foolish. I believe that we carry the biggest stick in the world, militarily, but that we don't necessarily need to be interfering in every fight there is. I don't believe we need to go around bragging about how tough we are, and that we make no friends by being bullies.

So - I voted for someone who is way smarter than I am - because I want my President to be able to understand the nuances of foreign policy, of economics. I voted for someone who was a community organizer because I believe that communities still have power to help themselves, but also to bring the attention of government to very real needs. I voted for a man of mixed race, who lived with a single mother and had lived, for a time, out of the country, because I was a single mother, because I believed it was time to stop the lunacy of only old white men in the Oval Office (who knows, maybe a woman next?), because I believe we must be able to understand people in other nations if we are to survive in the world as it is today. I voted for President Obama because I thought it was time for someone who had grown up outside the strange, convoluted atmosphere of Washington, D.C. to be at the head of the country. I voted for President Obama because I have met him, looked him in the eye, and saw a man with a passion for trying to make things better for this nation. I voted for hm because I thought that he understands the subtleties of many different points of view. I voted for him because I believed he wasn't interested in forcing his religious point of view on me or my body. I voted for him because I thought his Vice President was capable of being President, should anything, God forbid, happen, and because I thought having a VP who had served long and well in the Senate, who knew about negotiating to reach ends that I agreed with, was a good choice (and, I might add, I'm glad to see the VP finally getting to do what he does well). I voted for the President because I believe in many of the things he believes in, and hoped that he would find ways to put programs in place to move those ideas forward.


RUKnitting said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe President Obama will be of any particular benefit to me personally. I didn't vote for him because of my pocketbook. Your assumption that I don't have any concern for the future of our country is outrageously offensive! How dare you? I had many reasons to cast my vote for the President. Just because you don't agree with me, what gives you the right to assume I don't care about the future? I don't agree with you and other people about what is the best way to accomplish things. Perhaps we don't agree on what actually would be the best for our country. I assume that most people who differ from me in their opinion about the direction we should follow and the way we should get there are still people of good will. Clearly I am wrong about that!
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > RUKnitting said:
> ...


Not by any definition I've ever run across.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Well said, Pardo. The vitriol on this thread is horrifying.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Well said pardoquilts.


pardoquilts said:


> I will try to answer as best I can. First, I believe that government is the only way we are going to solve some of our problems. I absolutely believe, for example, what my own physician says - that the best run, easiest to deal with, most useful for his patients program he sees is Medicare. He - and I - believe that a government run, single payer, health care system would make things more fair for everyone. I believe that there are people who need help just to put food on their tables, to keep a roof over the heads of their families. I believe that government is a much better vehicle for assisting those people than individual charities, which often run out of funds, and, thus, are unable to give assistance to those who need it most. I believe that we are supposed to help our neighbors as much as we can. I believe we need research and development to move forward in many scientific fields, and that depending on the whims of private business, which will do this kind of work only if they see a profit in it, is foolish. I believe that we carry the biggest stick in the world, militarily, but that we don't necessarily need to be interfering in every fight there is. I don't believe we need to go around bragging about how tough we are, and that we make no friends by being bullies.
> 
> So - I voted for someone who is way smarter than I am - because I want my President to be able to understand the nuances of foreign policy, of economics. I voted for someone who was a community organizer because I believe that communities still have power to help themselves, but also to bring the attention of government to very real needs. I voted for a man of mixed race, who lived with a single mother and had lived, for a time, out of the country, because I was a single mother, because I believed it was time to stop the lunacy of only old white men in the Oval Office (who knows, maybe a woman next?), because I believe we must be able to understand people in other nations if we are to survive in the world as it is today. I voted for President Obama because I thought it was time for someone who had grown up outside the strange, convoluted atmosphere of Washington, D.C. to be at the head of the country. I voted for President Obama because I have met him, looked him in the eye, and saw a man with a passion for trying to make things better for this nation. I voted for hm because I thought that he understands the subtleties of many different points of view. I voted for him because I believed he wasn't interested in forcing his religious point of view on me or my body. I voted for him because I thought his Vice President was capable of being President, should anything, God forbid, happen, and because I thought having a VP who had served long and well in the Senate, who knew about negotiating to reach ends that I agreed with, was a good choice (and, I might add, I'm glad to see the VP finally getting to do what he does well). I voted for the President because I believe in many of the things he believes in, and hoped that he would find ways to put programs in place to move those ideas forward.
> 
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Smacks of socialism to me.

His "solutions" are going to cost many more their jobs and, at least in this state, over triple what the low income families here would pay for insurance. You see, what we have had here for an insurance exchange an running successfully for years, will triple on price under the ACA exchange price. So much for affordable. But finance has obviously never been obama's strong suit. Do you have ANY idea how Medicare is run or are your thoughts just things that you've heard. I work with Medicare and Medicaid every day. I assure you that the majority of healthcare facilities and providers would go broke very quickly.

I would like to see more people develop a bit of self pride. Just think of all the money you would have to give to others if the government would stop confiscating it. How can any program run on a federal level really know what the needs of a person might be? They don't. And many that receive benefits don't deserve it.

obama does not understand foreign policy. He can't even reach out to his own countrymen without a TelePrompTer or insulting some group or another.

"Ask not for what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". My, how far removed we are from the self sufficient people we used to be. We now have a country of which 47% are sycophants.



pardoquilts said:


> I will try to answer as best I can. First, I believe that government is the only way we are going to solve some of our problems. I absolutely believe, for example, what my own physician says - that the best run, easiest to deal with, most useful for his patients program he sees is Medicare. He - and I - believe that a government run, single payer, health care system would make things more fair for everyone. I believe that there are people who need help just to put food on their tables, to keep a roof over the heads of their families. I believe that government is a much better vehicle for assisting those people than individual charities, which often run out of funds, and, thus, are unable to give assistance to those who need it most. I believe that we are supposed to help our neighbors as much as we can. I believe we need research and development to move forward in many scientific fields, and that depending on the whims of private business, which will do this kind of work only if they see a profit in it, is foolish. I believe that we carry the biggest stick in the world, militarily, but that we don't necessarily need to be interfering in every fight there is. I don't believe we need to go around bragging about how tough we are, and that we make no friends by being bullies.
> 
> So - I voted for someone who is way smarter than I am - because I want my President to be able to understand the nuances of foreign policy, of economics. I voted for someone who was a community organizer because I believe that communities still have power to help themselves, but also to bring the attention of government to very real needs. I voted for a man of mixed race, who lived with a single mother and had lived, for a time, out of the country, because I was a single mother, because I believed it was time to stop the lunacy of only old white men in the Oval Office (who knows, maybe a woman next?), because I believe we must be able to understand people in other nations if we are to survive in the world as it is today. I voted for President Obama because I thought it was time for someone who had grown up outside the strange, convoluted atmosphere of Washington, D.C. to be at the head of the country. I voted for President Obama because I have met him, looked him in the eye, and saw a man with a passion for trying to make things better for this nation. I voted for hm because I thought that he understands the subtleties of many different points of view. I voted for him because I believed he wasn't interested in forcing his religious point of view on me or my body. I voted for him because I thought his Vice President was capable of being President, should anything, God forbid, happen, and because I thought having a VP who had served long and well in the Senate, who knew about negotiating to reach ends that I agreed with, was a good choice (and, I might add, I'm glad to see the VP finally getting to do what he does well). I voted for the President because I believe in many of the things he believes in, and hoped that he would find ways to put programs in place to move those ideas forward.
> 
> ...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Pardoquilts, give up. It's pointless.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thumper---I was just correcting my spelling of "racist."


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Pardoquilts: congratulations on a well-written piece which paints the picture of an educated, well-informed, socially conscious voter! That's why most of us voted for Obama.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I just learned from Thumper that the government "confiscates" our money. I guess s/he thinks everything government does or supports isn't necessary. It takes revenue in the form of taxes to run our country. Why don't people understand that?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

"Ask not for what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country". My, how far removed we are from the self sufficient people we used to be. We now have a country of which 47% are sycophants"

47% of our people are sycophants?? I know the word, but where on earth are you getting this stuff? You have quite an imagination!


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Thumper - I was asked what I thought was a serious question from someone who usually disagrees with me. It is unfortunate that your comments are an attempt to belittle me and my opinions. As I said in a previous post, I believe that most people, conservative or liberal, are people of good will. The only way we will ever solve any of this is to come together and talk - find ways we can agree, ways to work out our problems. Ranting about socialism or how uninformed people are is of little use. I hope, at least, it makes you feel better.


thumper5316 said:


> Smacks of socialism to me.
> 
> His "solutions" are going to cost many more their jobs and, at least in this state, over triple what the low income families here would pay for insurance. You see, what we have had here for an insurance exchange an running successfully for years, will triple on price under the ACA exchange price. So much for affordable. But finance has obviously never been obama's strong suit. Do you have ANY idea how Medicare is run or are your thoughts just things that you've heard. I work with Medicare and Medicaid every day. I assure you that the majority of healthcare facilities and providers would go broke very quickly.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Does everyone need a time out with a cookie? Or I could draw pictures for everyone!

Why don't we exchange recipes? Good food always settles the nerves!


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks, Alcameron.


alcameron said:


> Pardoquilts: congratulations on a well-written piece which paints the picture of an educated, well-informed, socially conscious voter! That's why most of us voted for Obama.
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I wasn't belittling them in any way. I just don't agree with them.



pardoquilts said:


> Thumper - I was asked what I thought was a serious question from someone who usually disagrees with me. It is unfortunate that your comments are an attempt to belittle me and my opinions. As I said in a previous post, I believe that most people, conservative or liberal, are people of good will. The only way we will ever solve any of this is to come together and talk - find ways we can agree, ways to work out our problems. Ranting about socialism or how uninformed people are is of little use. I hope, at least, it makes you feel better.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Pardoquilts, I have a grreat deal of respect and admiration for you and agree with what you have written. So well thought out and intelligent. This discussion will neer come to any resolution. This forum is just a microcosm of what is playing out in Washington. No hint of compromise by either side. I happen to think that Obama did try to compromise very early in his first term. The right wasn't having it and the left was upset also. I really don't know the answer to this political war. I feel that the Reps will probably continue to be the party of NO. Until we can have some moderation, it will be very difficult to get anything done. I thought the American spoke loud and clear.with their votes, Reps have not heard that message and continue to obfuscate. If they continue on this path, perhaps they will lose more election cycles and then maybe they will listen to THE PEOPLE. I have given up on this forum and I suppose that they would consider my husband and I takers. He is a disabled eteran and get SS and VA benefits...Taker!!


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks, Rocky. I honestly believe a two party system is the best for our nation, but, unfortunately, it appears that the Republican Party leadership is determined to keep only old, white men in charge, with a very few exceptions. You see their difficulty played out in their complete lack of understanding about losing the Hispanic vote, for example. A largely Catholic, naturally conservative group should be a natural constituancy for the GOP, and they are well aware that they lost that vote bigtime in the last election. The fact that the minority will soon become those of us who are primarily of European Caucasion background really seems to stick in their craw, and they don't seem to have any idea of how to address the issue. Unfortunately, their solution seems to be to continue to be the party of obstructionism, though I am slightly hopeful that some sort of immigration reform might come out of the eight Senators, four from each side, who got together to formulate a fairly decent plan to present. I also have some hope of reform of gun laws, because a whole lot of people of both parties are putting pressure on Congress to do something at least about putting background checks in place. If the entire nation of Australia can enact better gun control, why can't we at least require that people purchasing guns not be crazies? There will never be any progress on much of anything if everyone in Washington doesn't stop posturing and yelling. Can't we just lock them in a room, throw in food and water every once in a while, and not let them out until they come up with some solutions?


rocky1991 said:


> Pardoquilts, I have a grreat deal of respect and admiration for you and agree with what you have written. So well thought out and intelligent. This discussion will neer come to any resolution. This forum is just a microcosm of what is playing out in Washington. No hint of compromise by either side. I happen to think that Obama did try to compromise very early in his first term. The right wasn't having it and the left was upset also. I really don't know the answer to this political war. I feel that the Reps will probably continue to be the party of NO. Until we can have some moderation, it will be very difficult to get anything done. I thought the American spoke loud and clear.with their votes, Reps have not heard that message and continue to obfuscate. If they continue on this path, perhaps they will lose more election cycles and then maybe they will listen to THE PEOPLE. I have given up on this forum and I suppose that they would consider my husband and I takers. He is a disabled eteran and get SS and VA benefits...Taker!!


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I do believe he understands economics. The rise in our national debt is not on him. He enacts no legislation by himself. There are enormous expenses from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which actually are not line items in the national budget. He did not start those wars, and the anticipated amounts for those two items are down by $48 Billion, because we have a minimal force in Iraq. I think he understands a great deal about the world, including the fact that we need to think carefully before we step into another quagmire.

His grandparents were a big part of his later years, but his mother was a single mother for a period of time. What difference does the length of time she was single have to do with anything?


joeysomma said:


> I think we need a little bit more of Ronald Reagan. Government is not the solution to the problem, "Government is the problem!"
> 
> Pardoquilts do you think he understands economics? If he really did he would not have increased our National Debt by more than $5,000,000,000,000.00 I have grandchildren that know if they want something they need to work and save their money before they can spend it on what they want.
> 
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think we need a little bit more of Ronald Reagan. Government is not the solution to the problem, "Government is the problem!"
> 
> Pardoquilts do you think he understands economics? If he really did he would not have increased our National Debt by more than $5,000,000,000,000.00 I have grandchildren that know if they want something they need to work and save their money before they can spend it on what they want.
> 
> ...


 Since the ACA was voted in by Congress, it is NOT the President alone who wants businesses to provide contraceptive coverage for employees. The Supreme Court upheld the ACA. And for sure, until they stop including Viagra in health care plans, but don't want to cover contraceptives, I'm not interested in what their religious beliefs say about a common practice that should be between a woman and her doctor.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I think we need a little bit more of Ronald Reagan. Government is not the solution to the problem, "Government is the problem!"
> ...


Do you want a private business to guide your life by their religeous beliefs? I am not a Jehovah's Witness and I have had 3 transfusions. If my employer was a JW I would certainly have died. I thought we had religeous freedom and freedon from religion in this country? Why are "religeous" men using viagra, I thought sex was supposed to be for procreation not recreation?


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Religion has not place in politics, or in governmental decisions. Morality does. Unfortunately some decision makers cannot separate what they know morally from what their religion teaches or demands. (Perhaps it is an ignorant belief that there is only one 'right' way to believe.) No religion's tenets should be imposed on anyone...that is why we 'say' we have religious freedom.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Para- I would like to know just how the Hispanic community could vote for O as nearly 10 million are in this country by slipping across the border.

They refuse to learn English as my people had to learn or were beaten to death, but they want us to speak Spanish.

I'm Native American Indian and their refusal to learn/speak English ruffles my feathers!

It costs extra to hire teachers because the children do not speak English so my taxes increases to the schools.

Need a cookie?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think we need a little bit more of Ronald Reagan. Government is not the solution to the problem, "Government is the problem!"
> 
> Pardoquilts do you think he understands economics? If he really did he would not have increased our National Debt by more than $5,000,000,000,000.00 I have grandchildren that know if they want something they need to work and save their money before they can spend it on what they want.
> 
> ...


I think I've just heard everything. "Friendly dictator"??? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


That would be their right. Just as it would be your right to seek employment elsewhere. And it's freedom *of* religion; not 'from' as many would like to think.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

According to the U. S, Census Bureau, there are 50.5 million people of Hispanic origin in the U.S. of those, 23.7 are naturalized citizens. That means they studied, they took the test, they passed, and they were sworn in as U.S. citizens.


Janeway said:


> Para- I would like to know just how the Hispanic community could vote for O as nearly 10 million are in this country by slipping across the border.
> 
> They refuse to learn English as my people had to learn or were beaten to death, but they want us to speak Spanish.
> 
> ...


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?


thumper5316 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > pardoquilts said:
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


It leaves you free to your belief of nothing. Just don't push your belief of nothing on me.


----------



## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

I have no desire to "push"
my beliefs on you. But that also means religious beliefs must be kept out of government in every way.


thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?
> ...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

That's not what it means. That's just what you would like it to mean.



pardoquilts said:


> I have no desire to "push"
> my beliefs on you. But that also means religious beliefs must be kept out of government in every way.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

alcameron said:


> RUKnitting said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Just by claiming that to be a racist remark shows you to be racist and not me. Let me tell you NO RACE has a monopoly on "do-nothing laziness"


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thank You Pardoquilts. I believe I understand you better now. And that being said I will agree to disagree with your philosophy and vision for our country. Our belief systems are partially based on our family values, experiences and talents and how we use them. And regarding some of your premises we share the same philosophy. Did you have the opportunity to hear the speech by Dr Ben Carson given at the Prayer Breakfast? He is an internationally renowned pediatric neurosurgeon at Hopkins (probably the best in the world) with a very interesting past. I implore you to check it out. And I'd be interested in your opinion. Again thank you for helping me understand you.



pardoquilts said:


> I will try to answer as best I can. First, I believe that government is the only way we are going to solve some of our problems. I absolutely believe, for example, what my own physician says - that the best run, easiest to deal with, most useful for his patients program he sees is Medicare. He - and I - believe that a government run, single payer, health care system would make things more fair for everyone. I believe that there are people who need help just to put food on their tables, to keep a roof over the heads of their families. I believe that government is a much better vehicle for assisting those people than individual charities, which often run out of funds, and, thus, are unable to give assistance to those who need it most. I believe that we are supposed to help our neighbors as much as we can. I believe we need research and development to move forward in many scientific fields, and that depending on the whims of private business, which will do this kind of work only if they see a profit in it, is foolish. I believe that we carry the biggest stick in the world, militarily, but that we don't necessarily need to be interfering in every fight there is. I don't believe we need to go around bragging about how tough we are, and that we make no friends by being bullies.
> 
> So - I voted for someone who is way smarter than I am - because I want my President to be able to understand the nuances of foreign policy, of economics. I voted for someone who was a community organizer because I believe that communities still have power to help themselves, but also to bring the attention of government to very real needs. I voted for a man of mixed race, who lived with a single mother and had lived, for a time, out of the country, because I was a single mother, because I believed it was time to stop the lunacy of only old white men in the Oval Office (who knows, maybe a woman next?), because I believe we must be able to understand people in other nations if we are to survive in the world as it is today. I voted for President Obama because I thought it was time for someone who had grown up outside the strange, convoluted atmosphere of Washington, D.C. to be at the head of the country. I voted for President Obama because I have met him, looked him in the eye, and saw a man with a passion for trying to make things better for this nation. I voted for hm because I thought that he understands the subtleties of many different points of view. I voted for him because I believed he wasn't interested in forcing his religious point of view on me or my body. I voted for him because I thought his Vice President was capable of being President, should anything, God forbid, happen, and because I thought having a VP who had served long and well in the Senate, who knew about negotiating to reach ends that I agreed with, was a good choice (and, I might add, I'm glad to see the VP finally getting to do what he does well). I voted for the President because I believe in many of the things he believes in, and hoped that he would find ways to put programs in place to move those ideas forward.
> 
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I think we need a little bit more of Ronald Reagan. Government is not the solution to the problem, "Government is the problem!"
> ...


Friendly dictator is a very good connotation to describe him. Do you have a better one? We often in the past have gone along with leaders of countries who are less than savory.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You're fine.



pardoquilts said:


> If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Exactly



thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

That's not what it means. That's just what you would like it to mean.

Thumper - What do you think that the First Amendment means? I believe the framers of the Constitution wanted freedom from any kind of state religion - something their forefathers had fled. To me that means our tax dollars cannot support any kind of public religious agenda.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Just by claiming that to be a racist remark shows you to be racist and not me. Let me tell you NO RACE has a monopoly on "do-nothing laziness"

This remark was racist when John Sununu said it and it's racist when you say it.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

So what do you believe the First Amendment allows with regard to religion and the state?


joeysomma said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > That's not what it means. That's just what you would like it to mean.
> ...


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

"Mubarak was a friend of the USA. He was important in keeping the peace in the Middle East."

Thank you, Joeysomma, for encapsulating US foreign policy in such an honest way. I have been waiting for this from your leaders for many years. 

If I may interpret what you are saying, it's ok for other people to live under a dictatorship as long as they are "friends of the USA". As a member of the rest of the world, I find that outrageous and terrifying. 

Democracy is, apparently, only good enough for Americans and too good for the rest of us. Thanks very much.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

What you or I 'believe' it means is pointless and moot. The first amendment definition has stood the test of time for over 200 years. It means the same today as it did when our framing fathers penned it.

What it mean is that the government is prohibited from:
1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another.

Given the definition, how can you 'believe' it means you are guaranteed the right to a freedom 'from' religion?



pardoquilts said:


> So what do you believe the First Amendment allows with regard to religion and the state?
> 
> 
> joeysomma said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> pardoquilts said:
> 
> 
> > If I do not believe in any religion, where does that leave me?
> ...


And don't push your religeous on me


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> aw9358 said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > aw9358 said:
> ...


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

What other meaning could it have? You can practice your religion, I can practice my religion, or, if I don't believe in any religion, I am free not to believe. I cannot have any religious beliefs imposed on me. My tax dollars cannot be used to promote any religion.


thumper5316 said:


> What you or I 'believe' it means is pointless and moot. The first amendment definition has stood the test of time for over 200 years. It means the same today as it did when our framing fathers penned it.
> 
> What it mean is that the government is prohibited from:
> 1) the establishment of a national religion by Congress, or 2) the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

"I cannot have any religious beliefs imposed on me."

What beliefs are being imposed on you? Keep in mind that a lack of belief, or athiesm itself, can be defined as a religion. So, don't impose your lack of religious beliefs on me and use my tax dollars to promote any of your secular ideology.



pardoquilts said:


> What other meaning could it have? You can practice your religion, I can practice my religion, or, if I don't believe in any religion, I am free not to believe. I cannot have any religious beliefs imposed on me. My tax dollars cannot be used to promote any religion.
> 
> 
> thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Atheism is not a religion. It's a belief that there is no god or gods. There's a difference.


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## pardoquilts (Aug 23, 2011)

How does that work in government? You have every right to believe in any religion. In government, however, it does mean I don't have to support religious symbols on public property, commandments in courtrooms, interference in my private medical decisions.By the way, I actually don't like the term "athiest" as I think it says what I am not. What I am is a Humanist. I believe that human beings are the only thing we've got. We make the problems, we have to solve them. So, if you define athiesm as a religion (which I don't), then how am I imposing my secular beliefs on you? You can't have it both ways?


thumper5316 said:


> "I cannot have any religious beliefs imposed on me."
> 
> What beliefs are being imposed on you? Keep in mind that a lack of belief, or athiesm itself, can be defined as a religion. So, don't impose your lack of religious beliefs on me and use my tax dollars to promote any of your secular ideology.
> 
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

According to every dictionary I've encountered atheism does meet criteria/criterion for defining a religion.

re·li·gion - noun 
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:



aw9358 said:


> Atheism is not a religion. It's a belief that there is no god or gods. There's a difference.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > According to every dictionary I've encountered atheism does meet criteria/criterion for defining a religion.
> ...


You are correct in that secular humanism is also a religion. But it's ok if we get taxed to support THEIR religious beliefs. Double standard? Hypocrisy? Intollerance? Bigotry?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Please stop calling atheism a religion. It's not. I reject all religion. I believe (if I'm allowed to put it that way) that we are here by accident and there is no afterlife. This is it. We humans have the greatest power over the earth and all of its inhabitants. Its future is in our hands and no-one else's. I'm not going to found a sect based on those principles.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Morality is different from religion. Being ethical is different from having a religion.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

pardoquilts said:


> According to the U. S, Census Bureau, there are 50.5 million people of Hispanic origin in the U.S. of those, 23.7 are naturalized citizens. That means they studied, they took the test, they passed, and they were sworn in as U.S. citizens.
> 
> 
> Janeway said:
> ...


Well of those nearly 30 million Hispanics, they voted for OBO because they thought he would give them more freebies--not because they liked him. If so many Hispanics are now US citizens then why are 95% of them still on state Welfare? Why are they not paying taxes like we are paying for all of their freebies?

Why are they not in the military? Why are those who are not citizens still breeding like rabbits?

America has catered enough to the Hispanics and there is war among them and the blacks in the city where I live. The last murders were where Hispanics even killed a small baby in the arms of his black mother then killed her too, but she had the horror to know her baby had been shot in the head and died! How horrible!

America has a lot of foreigners, but have made the Hispanics a favorite with radio/TV stations who only speak Spanish. Most groceries also have Spanish words so they can read it. I am complaining to those food companies and won't buy it if it has Spanish words.

Everyone else may still speak their native language (except the American Indians) but speak English in public except Hispanics!

I don't mind them being here, but they should become Americanized and speak English!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Brilliant. From religious intolerance to racism. What a great thread this is.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Please stop calling atheism a religion. It's not. I reject all religion. I believe (if I'm allowed to put it that way) that we are here by accident and there is no afterlife. This is it. We humans have the greatest power over the earth and all of its inhabitants. Its future is in our hands and no-one else's. I'm not going to found a sect based on those principles.


You will believe in HIM one day when you are bowing before Him.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Atheism is not a religion. It's a belief that there is no god or gods. There's a difference.


Well, my family was forced to take the Christianity Religion and not practice our religion of "many Gods" so just how fair was that to the American Indians who were in America first when the constitution was written.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Please stop calling atheism a religion. It's not. I reject all religion. I believe (if I'm allowed to put it that way) that we are here by accident and there is no afterlife. This is it. We humans have the greatest power over the earth and all of its inhabitants. Its future is in our hands and no-one else's. I'm not going to found a sect based on those principles.


Aw9258, you may as well hope to "win" an argument here as to sprout wings and fly. This topic is another version of several other, similar topics. I just made the mistake of checking out the active topics in General Chit-Chat and found this topic. Now I know there's another topic I'll ignore and get back to looking at the pictures instead.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lol! I just love how so many of you want to put your own definitions to words and meanings to twist it in a fashion that is acceptable to you. You can't just decide to do that! 

You wonder why it is so difficult for many of us to understand what you are saying. You have made up your own constitution for this country and have defined many of the words to mean what you want them to mean. So, not only are you not talking about the U.S. Contitution but you're not even speaking English!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

When right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right. This is the state of our nation. No moral compass any more. Just politically correctness. Which to me is a bunch of hog wash. It's just another way of saying someone wants it their way . Our goverment is a good example of this. We in this nation have hit rock bottom. Ever time one turns around it's another wrong way made right. Not to me, or others I know. Know one opens their eyes to what is going on,except the left or so they may think. We will pay for this all of it in the end.


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