# #10-CLOSED WORKSHOP- LEARN TO DO MAGIC LOOP -



## darowil

*DESIGNER HERE: DAROWIL HAS DECIDED TO REOPEN THIS WORKSHOP*- as there is so much interest in learning how to use the Magic Loop technique. *It will be OPEN until further notice*.

Darowil will be available to answer questions on this workshop.

Please read the workshop from page one- there is enough information here to learn how to do Magic loop.

Welcome Back!

OK ALL:
There are several posts asking how to join in etc....

1. Even if we delete your post, you will still get notifications of new posts here.

2. The best option is to "Subscribe"to this section.
Detailed instructions on that located HERE This is the section of our little workshop called TECH HELP! Please read through this!

3. We encourage all of you to post that you are "Joining In", but as we stated, do not be alarmed if you posts 'magically disappear'... we just do that to make it easier for others to join in on all the fun!
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*Darowil here*:And here comes my info- it is long so be patient with reading it. I will Cut and Paste it here but also see if I can downlaod it (it will be identical info, just easier if people want to print it out. But if uyou can't open it it won't matter at all).
And yes it has downloaded- I can open it at least!
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*MAGIC LOOP INTRODUCTION*.

It is assumed for this workshop that you have basic skills in knitting

.
For one hat you need to be able to knit and cast-on- though you will need to be able to knit 2 together for the shaping but that will be easy enough to learn if you cant do it. The other hat has a ribbed band and so you will also need to be able to do ribbing .
The mittens will assume that you can cast on and off (bind off) and be able to do rib.

-----
I am using two different patterns-* a hat in 8 ply/light worsted or 10 ply/worsted*, and*fingerless mittens* in a 4 ply/fingering weight (this for those planning on doing the toe-up sock workshop). This is because for simplicity of following the pattern I have chosen to do the hat pattern with only one choice of stitch numbers. And doing this with the light yarn was going to be far too small a hat.

Later I will be teaching a *Fish Hat*, which is a 10ply/worsted pattern but which I have done in 8ply/light worsted. The pattern is for dpns but I will use it to show how to adapt a dpn pattern to circulars. _So for those who may be interested in this you may want to try one of the fish hats (basically the choice of yarn size for the hats will be determined by where you live and the availability of the different yarn weights)_

*NEEDLES*.
The needle is the most important tool.

Circular needles have two measurements. One is the needle size, which corresponds to the normal needle sizes.
The other is the length. _Generally the length needs to be shorter than the diameter of the smallest piece you are working on the circular needles, however for small diameters this is often not feasible, and may be impossible. And this is where the Magic Loop comes in by allowing small diameters to be knitted on long circulars_.

I find the best sizes are *80 or 100cm (30 or 40 inch)*. You can use longer needles if you have them, but it leaves you with extra cord to maneuver. However if you are thinking of later trying 2 socks at once and dont want to keep buying new needles then I recommend a 120cm length.

The cord is vital; it must be flexible but firm. I have used very successfully Addis, KnitPro (same as Knit Picks) and HiyaHiya. Lincraft over here sell a cheaper bamboo circular, which works OK if you want to trial it first without paying for more expensive needles .

Do not use very soft cords (the old Kollage was terrible, -the cord was too flexible and the joins terrible- though they have a new one now which I believe is better though I have not yet tried it)- or inflexible cords. If you do you will think the method is terrible, when it is the tools. When I first tried magic loop I used a circular with an unsuitable cord and almost gave up. I decided to try an expensive needle and havent looked back. 
As an aside I loved the feel of the Kollage needle tips and do want to try the new ones with the firm cables

*YARN*.
#1 -HAT
I have done 2 hats. 
Note that the needle sizes I have used are for loose knitters and so you are likely to need to decrease your needle size.
Tension is not essential so using the recommended needle size (adjusting for your own knitting tension/gauge) should work. This means that those who know they knit tightly will use the larger size needles, while looser knitters will use the smaller size. 
The different yarns will simply make different sized hats (and I have included my hat size in the individual information for the two I have done).
*Hat 1*
Lincraft Prism, 70% Wool, 30% soybean. 50gm approximately 65 metres. I used just under 70grams. My needle size was 6mm.
This is approximately 10ply/Aran
Fits a large adult head,

*Hat 2*.

Lincraft Supersoft 8 ply yarn (light worsted). I used 35 grams on 4 mm needle.
Small- probably a child.
Dont understand why I had such a big difference in size between these two hats.

*IF YOU INTEND DOING SOCKS*
_For those who are planning to do the toe-up sock on magic loop following on from this workshop_ I recommend doing the *fingerless mittens* so you only need one needle. The socks will require a 4 ply/fingering weight sock yarn (most sock yarns are this weight). Socks need to be knitted more firmly than most items so you need a needle a size smaller than you would normally use. 
The fingerless mittens can be done in sock yarn, but the stretch in a sock yarn is not so vital for the mittens and so any 4 ply/fingering weight yarn will work. They can also be done on a larger needle size, but dont have to be and so if you need to buy a circular needle for this I suggest you just buy one for now.

*TENSION/GAUGE*
I tend to be a lazy knitter. So I will not be telling you to do a swatch. I rarely do one- and usually find it useless anyway! I start working on the smallest piece of the work and use that as my swatch. If it is OK I have a piece already partly done, if not I havent lost much (and over time I definitely save time by not swatching).
And so when doing socks I start one and if it looks and feels OK I leave it! I dont even measure it. 
Check Your yarn band will give the recommended gauge and needle size. I recommend that for this project you choose your yarn and then pick your needle size by the recommendations on the band. (If you are a tight knitter go for the largest recommended size, loose knitters go for the smallest recommended size and average knitters a size in the middle).
For those planning on doing socks next I suggest you get 100gm of the sock yarn at the same time (or at least choose it) and choose your needle size based on the sock yarn as the needle size is more important for the socks than for the mittens- and I have done the mittens on the same size needle as I do socks simply because I have so many of them.
If you are buying a needle just for this doing a swatch is not actually an option anyway.

SUMMARY
NEEDLES
One 80 or 100 cm (30 or 40 inch) circular needle in the recommended size on the yarn band.

YARN
For the mittens 50gm of a 4 ply/fingering weight yarn.
The hats will need 50-100 grams of a 8 ply/light worsted or 10 ply/worsted.

You will also need a needle to thread the ends through with . 
And possibly a tape measure.

I will be away from the 24th to the 2nd January- and remember that I am in Australia so it is more like your 23rd that I will be away from- but conversely it will be your 1st that I am back on. I will try to access the net a couple of times during the week so I can answer any questions, but I recommend that you ask your questions ASAP if you access this early on.


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## darowil

Designer is right- I will provide the patterns when the workshop proper starts- this is just to allow you to get the materials ready to start. The hat, mitten and socks will all be posted in full on the relevant workshops while the fish hat will be a link to the pattern and I will provide information as to how to convert it from dpns to magic loop.
Many of you will have yarn you can use but might not have the right length circular needle.

I should have said DO NOT USE A SHORTER THAN 80CM/30 INCH - you will not be able to manipulate it. 100cm/40inch is probably best- though it varies with different peiople and the length of the needle tips. If you have long tips you have less cable and therefore less to 'loop'. But some prefer longer tips for holding the needles

The reason for starting with mittens or hat is so that you don't need to learn the technique while also increasing for the toe. The hat and mittens have straight knitting (or ribbing) to begin with.


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## darowil

Funkster1 said:


> This will be my first workshop, and I'm so looking forward to learning how to do the magic loop. One question, though...as you're teaching us, would you be able to convert the measurements and sizes into inches for those of us used to that? Many thanks--I'm eager to begin!


Well I did for the needles- and believe it or not there will not be a lot of measurments. I will convert but I will add a link here so that you can convert any measurements over for yourself wherever you come across them. I have this in my favourites and use it often- and it is so easy to use. Simply put in the measuerment you have (weight, length, fluids) and it brings up the relevant conversions. http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html


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## darowil

moachie844 said:


> I have searched and am unable to find the Lincraft yarns (Prism or Supersoft) that you used. Any suggestions or what yarn will be compatible?


I didn't expect that they would be available anywhere but here. I simply said what I used but then said what weight (i.e light worsted and worsted) so that people can choose there own yarn by the weight. Any yarn of that weight will do- I suspect that most people will have enough in their stash and not need to buy yarn. Indeed any yarn will do, this just gives a guide as to likely size- and those able to do a little adjusting for themselves both are easy to adjust stitch numbers to change size (in fact the mitten needs no adjusting other than casting on a stitch number divisible by four).

*In the UK the first yarn is an Aran weight and the second a DK weight- just remembered that you use different terms for heavier yarns than us.*


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## 5mmdpns

If I may Darowil, as a help for those who are doing conversions for needles, yarns, inches, etc. here is a great place for all the information. It is neatly laid out in charts. 
http://www.k2tog.com.au/index.php?main_page=page_4


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## darowil

wackycat4 said:


> Thank you for doing this workshop. I've used circular needles alot, but had trouble trying to folloe youTube's tutorials on doig socks with them. I have a lot of the circular-harmony interchangeable and long cables. I guess you will be telling us the needle size-for both mittens and socks?
> Anyway I'm very excited -so thanks!
> wackycat


You may find your interchangeables too big (they do not have the smaller needles in interchangeable sets because they have not yet come up with a join small enough for them- though especially tight knitters may find that there are small enough ones.
The best guide for needle size is the ball band- each yarn can be slightly different. 
I'm a non swatcher and tend to pick the size for my socks by what is hanging on my door free! But I always use between a 2.00mm and 2.5mm (US 0 or 1- we have a 2.25mm as well so that is one in between the US numbers) for 4 ply/fingering. BUT I am a loose knitter who often needs to go down 2 needle sizes to get anywhere near the right tension. So depending on your average tension you can determine which needle size to use.
Wacckycat you probably use mm anyway- old UK sizes 14 and 13. *Most of you will not use the same size needle as me * 
Socks are stetchy and so the size is not essential- however they do need to have a firm tension (this helps them to wear better and to fit better) so use a size less than you normally would for a 4 ply/fingering. Using a sock yarn is also advisable, most have some form of nylon in them which helps with both durablity and elasticity. Some sock yarns are specially woven with 100% wool but I still find some felting occur on heels- heat and friction after all are the two factors needed for felting and are present on heels especially (and toes to some extent). But not enough to be a problem yet. 
One reason I don't worry with swatches is that to be accurate they should be done in the round (and the majority of you looking at doing this can't do magic loop yet anyway!- and if you can do it you should wait till the sock as the mittens and hat are really simple knits so that the magic loop is the only difficult thing in them) and I figure that by time I knit enough to have a swatch I could be well on the way to having a sock knitted if the tension/gauge is correct and haven't lost anything if it is wrong as I would have needed to undone much the same amount of work anyway.
But if you want more information on swatching for socks (applies to anything knitted in the round) go to 5mmdpns workshop 'just in time for Xmas'(dpns socks). On her first page she gives a bit more information, and also in barbyjones' post further down
Workshop link http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-105-1.html
But for this workshop you will simply need to guess unless you choose to learn on a swatch- but if you need to buy needles you will need to guesstimate the needle size anyway.
For those who have already done 5mmdpns workshop you will find that my approach is totally different (sorry 5 if you find that my approach to difficult to cope with!). Each have validity and indeed if you do both you will be able to work out your own style. 5mmdpns style does not work for me and I suspect mine won't work for her but each knitter needs to work out what works for them- there are very few definate rights and wrong ways in knitting- it is the final product that matters. However we can all learn from each other.


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## darowil

The hat done with the 10ply/worsted/aran is 15 stitches to 4 inchs and the 8 ply/light worsted/DK is 21 stitchs to 4 inches. A change in tension/gauge will simply make the hat bigger or smaller (I don't recommend doing the 10 ply any bigger unless you are after a huge hat. It fits my husband who has difficulty buying hats his head is so big. But I can wear it too and I have an average head size.)
Here in Australia it is currently about midday Sunday 23rd. Tomorrow morning I will be leaving for Chritmas visits and a break and will be without internet access through that time. So I will be uncontactable till 2 January (more like News Years Day for most of you). But nothing should arise in that time that Designer can't address- and if so I will do so when I return (may pop in again today but I have plenty to do to get ready to go away.


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## darowil

Pegster said:


> This will be my first workshop...I have a question...I am left handed and I am self taught...How can I tell if I knit left handed or right handed?


*If the stitches you have just knitted are in your right hand and the ones you have yet to knit are in your left you are knitting right handed. You could be holding the yarn in either hand depending on which knitting method you are using but right handed knitting always moves the stitches from the left needle to the right needle.*


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## darowil

HERE WE GO

Well here comes the information. I will do 3 separate posts, one each for the hat, the mittens and the magic loop instructions. You will all the magic loop information plus the relevant pattern.

As with on page 1 I will cut and paste the info into the post and also download it for those who can open the downloads. Nothing will be in the downloads that is missing from the post, it will simply be easier to print off and Im sure how well I can get the colours etc I have used in the patterns. Hopefully they will also be converted to other formats again for you- but that I have no idea how to do!

*A few guidelines.*

1) Please look for answers to your questions before asking. I will not be answering the same question repeatedly. I may refer you to the relevant page, but if it happens repeatedly I wont be hunting through to find the information that you can find for yourselves. This makes things easier for me, but also avoids people having to go through numerous posts addressing the same question (which most of you will realize does happen frequently on KP).

2) However to make it easy I will begin my posts with a line saying what I am addressing. So for example I will say hat or mitten so if your question relates to a hat you know to ignore those headed mitten.

3) I am including a couple of links suggested by others on KP, but these are supplements to what I have to say. I have written out every step, in a way I hope will be able to be followed by everyone. But some people learn best by video and I do have the skills or equipment to do this. I will include some photos which I hope will help.
http://www.knitpicks.com/tutorials/Magic_Loop__D119.html 
http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/magic-loop 
I think is all I wanted to say to start. If you get this soon after I post the photos will come later so be patient- I am posting a lot of stuff now so it will take dome time.

So I hope you all work it out and enjoy the process as well. I'm certainly looking forward to it.


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## darowil

*FINGERLESS MITTENS.*

This fingerless mitten is a k2p2 rib and is thus very elastic and will fit most hands.
For those who dont feel confident to do a thumb gusset an unshaped option will be provided, though I only recommend this if you have no confidence in increasing.
The better looking and fitting option is a shaped thumb gusset and with this a hole for the thumb so there is no thumb can be worked or a knitted thumb can be done. See photos. Note that the brown mitten is similar to what you will be doing, but without the cable- this is a shaped gusset but with no thumb. The other mitten simply shows a thumb- this is not what you are knitting, it just gives you an idea of what the thumb will look like.

*PATTERN*

MATERIALS
50gm 4 ply/fingering weight yarn.
Circular needle at least 80cm (100cm probably best length). Needle size- as I said on page one go by the size on the yarn band., adapting for your own approximate tension. 
Needle for threading through ends.
6inch length of spare yarn (not the same yarn so it can be seen) if you plan on knitting a thumb.
Tape measure

ABBREVIATIONS
CO	cast on
m1	make one (pick up loop before the next stitch, slip it onto the left needle and work into the back of the loop). These will need to be worked purlwise or knitwise. For purlwise I suggest twisting the loop as you put it on the left needle so that the back of the stitch is facing the front of the work, and then purl into this.
K	knit
P	purl

All mittens
CO 64 stitches (or any multiple of 4).
Join and work in k2p2 rib.

Unshaped thumb
Work until approximately 15 cms/6inches.
Castoff/bind off 12 stitches at the beginning of the next round. Work to the end of the round.

Shaped Gussett
Work to approximately 10cm/4inchs (or length desired to the beginning of the hand).
Round 1	K2 m1 knitwise
Round 2	K or P all stitches as on previous round. (note that the new stitch is a knit stitch)
Round 3	K2 m1 knitwise
Round 4	K or P all stitches as on previous round.(note that the new stitch is a knit stitch)
Round 5	K2m1 purlwise
Round 6	K or P all stitches as on previous round.(note that the new stitch is a purl stitch)
Round 7	K2m1 purlwise
Round 8	K or P all stitches as on previous round.(note that the new stitch is a purl stitch)

Repeat these 8 rounds twice more (76 stitches). The K2P2 rib should have been maintained throughout.
Rib until work measures approximately 20cm/8inches

Shaped Gusset _Without_ a thumb
K2, cast off/bind off 16sts, rib to end of round.
K2, CO 4 stitches, rib to end of round.

Shaped Gusset _With_ a thumb.
K2, transfer next16stitches to waste yarn, rib to end of round.

All mittens
CO 4 stitches, rib to end of round continuing rib over the 4 CO stitches.
Continue in rib until work measures approximately 25cms/10inches. 
Cast off/bind off loosely.
Thread through the yarn ends.
Work thumb if doing.
Knit a second identical mitten.

Thumb.
Slip the 16 stitches from the waste yarn onto the needle; divide with 10 stitches on the first needle and 6 on the other. Pick up and knit 4 stitches using the needle with the 6 stitches (total of 20 stitches with 10 on each needle).
Work in K2P2 rib using magic loop (matching to the previous ribbing on gusset). Work until thumb is desired length.
Castoff/bind off loosely.

if you can access the downloads once they are there they are much easier to work with becuase I have used colour and I can't work out how to do it here. I did it :thumbup:


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## darowil

*HAT.*

Can be worked with any yarn using appropriate size needles.
YARN.
I have provided three different brims so you can decide for yourselves which one to do. A single layer of rib, a folded up rib and a rolled brim (which does not require any ribbing).
The measurements below are unstretched.
Note that the needle sizes I have used are for loose knitters and so you are likely to need to adjust your needle size.
Tension is not essential so using the recommended needle size (adjusting for your own knitting tension/gauge) should work. This means that those who know they knit tightly will use the larger size needles, while looser knitters will use the smaller size. 
The different yarns will simply make different sized hats (and I have included my hat size in the individual information for the two I have done).

Brim 1 (photo)
Single layer rib
Lincraft Prism, 70% Wool, 30% soybean. 50gm approximately 65 grams. I used just under 70grams. My needle size was 6mm.
This is approximately 10ply/Aran
Fits a large adult hat,

Brim 2. (photo)
rolled
Lincraft Supersoft 8 ply yarn (light worsted). I used 35 grams on 4 mm needle.
Small

Brim 3 (no photo)
Double layer rib

*PATTERN*

ABBREVIATIONS
CO	Cast on
K	knit
P	purl
K2tog	knit the nest 2 stitches together (a decrease as the 2 stitches become 1 stitch)
CO 78 stitches.
Work chosen brim (see below).

After knitting the brim work 22 rows stocking stitch/stockinet. (this can be adjusted as desired)

*Crown Shaping*
Row 1 (K11, k2tog) 6 times
Row 2 (k10, k2 tog) 6 times
Row 3 (k9, k2tog) 6 times
Row 4 (k8, k2tog) 6 times
Row 5 (k7, k2tog) 6 times
Row 6 (k6, k2tog) 6 times
Row 7 (k5, k2tog) 6 times
Row 8 (k4, k2tog) 6 times
Row 9 (k3, k2tog) 6 times
Row 10 (k2, k2tog) 6 times
Row 11 (k1, k2tog) 6 times
Row 12 k2tog 6 times.
Cut yarn leaving about 8 inches, thread through 6 remaining stitches.
Weave both ends in.

Brim 1(single ribbed brim)
K1P1 rib for 10 rows 
Brim 2 (rolled brim)
Work 10 rows stocking stitch/stockinet.
Those who chose to knit a couple of rows straight will need to knit one row and purl one row until join the work.
Brim3 (folded up rib brim)
K1P1 rib for 20 rows.


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## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP INSTRUCTIONS.*
I will be talking about a needle/s, by this I am referring to the tips of the ONE circular. It helps to think of the two tips as two different needles- the cable is simply a holder for the stitches not being worked. 
I am deliberately repeating myself here- the two tips are the two needles I talk about. Never do you need two circular needles. 
*Step One*
Cast on with a loose cast on (I use long tail cast on). Cast on in the normal fashion using the two needles allowing them to move onto the cable- you should not need to move them, they will move themselves as you get more stitches.
*Step Two*
After casting on slip all stitches onto the cable. Find the centre point and pull the cable out between the two centre stitches. . (32 stitches assuming you have cast on 64) Photo 1
Now slid the stitches first cast on onto the closest needle (that is the stitches WITHOUT the yarn attached to the end. Leave the other half of the stitches on the cable. photo 2 
photo 3 shows you loops on both sides of the work- the magic loop in the name. The stitches move onto the right cable as you work. you have these two loops at all times
Check that the stitches are not twisted (those new to circular knitting may find it easier to join after a couple of rows of brim. And if you choose to do this you dont need to divide the stitches until you have worked the rows you want- working rows simply turn the needle as you would straight needles. 
I like fudge, so if you notice that you have twisted the work after the first round fudge. You can move all the stitches so that they are not twisted and the yarn between the two ends will twist, but this really wont matter if straightened now.
Using the needle with no stitches on it work the stitches on the other needle. Pull the yarn firmly so that the last cast on stitch fits snuggly against the first knitted stitch. photo 4 It will almost certainly not be firmly joined for the first round or two- but the tail from you cast on can be used to pull them together after the item is finished. 
*Step Three*
Now it is necessary to move the worked stitches onto the cable and the stitches on the cable onto a needle. This is the hardest part of the magic loop, but I assure you that it does become second nature. How this is achieved depends partly on personal preference and also on the needles. Usually the needle holding the just worked stitches can be gently pulled with the stitches gently sliding onto the cable. Dont pull so far that it joins up with the other set of stitches.
The other stitches then need to be moved onto the other needle, and this is done either/or by pulling on the cord so that the stitches slid onto the needle or pushing on the needle so that stitches slid off the cable onto the needle.
This is the part that is different to anything you are likely to do and it will take time to get worked out which way works best (and as I said even the needle/cable make a difference. Some times I need to use a different technique for different needles.)
Turn the work so that the stitches just worked are at the back and work the next set of stitches as for the first.
This is the first round completed.
*Step Four*
If you really want to use a stitch marker to mark the end of the row you can but I never do. You never need to move the stitches round (well later with more elaborate patterns you might but not yet- even if you go on and do the socks you still wont need to do this). This means that the two ends never change and the tail of your caston shows you which end you started. The tail is between the end of one round and the beginning of the next round.
Continue on this way for the required length.

For stocking stitch/stockinet when working in the round all rows are knitted because the front of the work is always facing you. And when ribbing the same principles apply, the same stitches are always knitted or purled unlike straight knitting when you swap around on different rows. (for those who choose to knit a couple of rows before joining the work remember to work the rows as for straight knitting and then change when join the work). Knit the v shapes and purl the  shape as they face you whether you are knitting straight or in the round.


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## darowil

All done. started at 1232 am on the 3rd- so 3rd for probably everyone!
I kniow there will be questions about joining etc, but I will leave these till people ask.
And now a bit of light heartedness. I'm sure most of you will be feeling like this at some point as you do this. A frogging most will go, and you may well feel the sense of despair I see in this newest t-shirt of mine. But keep going and persevere.


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## darowil

Pontygirl said:


> I am doing the fingerless mittens and I am wondering if someone can help me please. I am doing the Shaped Gussett and you increase 4 stitches over 8 rounds and it says to repeat these 8 rounds twice,but, if you repeat once you get 72 stitches which is what it says but twice will give you 76 stitches. Hope I have explained myself clearly.


*MITTENS CORRECTION*
Ponty girl you are correct. Sorry everyone- orginally I started with 60 stitches and forgot to allow for that.
so increase as said but the stitch count will be *76*

Or cast on 60 stitches and work as said for the thumb.
One of the disadvntages of being over here is that most of you are up doing your knitting while I should be sleeping.


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## darowil

nicolemarie said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicolemarie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can the fingerless mittens be done with worsted medium 4?
> 
> 
> 
> I am doing mine with chunky, cast on 40 stitches. Works well for me. You need to do a cast on divisible by 4 for the 2x2 ribbing. :thumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I started mine with worsted and cast on 64....I've done 3 rounds and it looks like it might be big...I'm using size 6 circulars. Am I doing something wrong or is it because it goes down onto your arm? :shock:
Click to expand...

The pattern calls for fingering, a considerable difference in yarn weight so yours will be huge.
5mmdpn posted that she was doing 40 stitches for a similar weight. Try that. The only other adjustment needed will be at the thumb whichever version you do. (and 5 will have got there by hten and be able to tell you, but about 1/3 less stitches keeping the 4 stitch repeat for the rib would work).


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## darowil

Well that was much quicker than the photos I must say!
Wonder what else I will find wrong when I get back from my walk and morning coffee?


I expect that I will have questions to answer about doing the magic loop part- not sure whether the way it has been written makes sense. It does to me!


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## darowil

Dowager said:


> O.K. I am hopelessly confused already. For the Magic Loop you have us cast on the stitches, then divide them in half. I can see pulling the loop out there, to push the stitches back onto the needles. However, the next photo and instructions say that you have two loops. Where did the second loop come from? Do you divide the stitches in thirds and pull from each division? That's the only way I can figure to get two loops. Then what happens when you finish the round? Divide in thirds and pull again?


*MAGIC LOOP INSTRUCTIONS*
never do you want the two halves of the stitches to join up so you need 2 loops to keep them separate. The second loop forms itself as you knit the stitches- the trick is to simplyto keep this second loop there as you work.
I will add a photo of the project I am working on now, I have finished the round part way through so can hopefully see how it looks in progress. That might make it clearer for you (and others).
I've added a couple more photos. The middle photo shows what it looks like after the end of a row (_I will use the term row to indicate working one half and round will refer to the total stitches_) and then the last photo is set up begining the first stitch on the next row. This shows how the second loop forms separating the two rows from each other. With the magic loop one row is on the needles and the other is stored on the cable, never are they both on the needles being worked at the same time- they must have a loop between them at each end of the rows at all times (obviously when moving between rows there will only be one loop with an unworked needle on the other side as is seen in the middle photo).


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## 5mmdpns

For anyone who is struggling with the long tail cast on, here is one youtube I like for it! http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/long-tail-cast-on


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## 5mmdpns

minniemo said:


> I am afraid that I have not even cast on one stitch yet as I am unable to access the patterns or Magic loop tutorial


Here is the magic loop tutorial for knitting in the round.





The patterns are typed out in Darowil's posts. The downloads are exactly the same as she has written. Good luck with this!


----------



## darowil

Dowager said:


> O.K. Someone mentioned the long-tail cast-on. Is that necessary? What is it useful for?


I have not used the longtail cast on for my mittens.
However I used it (and recommened it) for the hat as it needs to be stretchier and I find it has more stretch than the cable caston I normally use.


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## darowil

loann said:


> I think I remember hearing 1 inch of yarn for each stitch for the long tail.


*LONG TAIL CASTON*
The problem wih any of this rules is that it depends on what weight yarn you are using! 
I guess how much to use- which is not very effective, and the main reason why I usually use the cable caston which I grew up with up. However I recommened it for the hat because it needs to be stretchy. 
But the recommened method (from KP of course!) which seems most sensible is to wrap the yarn around the needle 10 times and then use this as a guide. So for the hats 8x that plus maybe another to be sure you don't run out.

but any stretchy caston will work if you have another one that works well. Or using a larger needle to caston with can also work. If you do this unless you have a suitable circular in a larger size you need to do a couple of rows straight, making sure you use your circular needle after the cast on.


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## yto111

Darowil- in the mitten pattern, when making the shaped gussett, when you say round 1 "k2 m1 knit wise" you now have 3 knit stitches, right? Then you complete the round with p2 k2?
So then for round 2 you say to knit and purl as in previous round. So you would knit 3 then purl 2 then k2 p2 to complete the round?


----------



## darowil

yto111 said:


> Darowil- in the mitten pattern, when making the shaped gussett, when you say round 1 "k2 m1 knit wise" you now have 3 knit stitches, right? Then you complete the round with p2 k2?
> So then for round 2 you say to knit and purl as in previous round. So you would knit 3 then purl 2 then k2 p2 to complete the round?


*MITTEN*
That is correct. Then the 4th row is k4. but the 6th row k2p1. This is because the stitch you increase needs to be the mate for the next two stitches, not the first two stitches. So on the second row the next 2 stitches are both purl so you need a knit, the 4th row you have a k and then a ourl so you need a second knit. And the same principle applies for the increases. For example if you have two purls you need to increase as a knit.


----------



## RosieB

It's working! After a couple of false starts, some frogging and almost giving up in the cord tangles - it's working! Thank you so much for your instructions, support and patience! I've read and re-read before, during and whilst knitting and now it's working! Getting the equipment, yarn and fingers in the right place has taken some practice - you've given the instructions and confidence for me to stick at this magic. Thank you so much!


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## mlw2504

mlw2504 said:


> Mittens
> 
> I'm having a hard time with this. I finally got one row of ribbing done, but I had about an inch of yarn between the two ends.
> 
> I guess I will frog it and try again. Any suggestions that will help?


Success! I am excited. I watched the video on the Magic Loop over and over and I finally got it. I have about an inch of the ribbing done. This was a real challenge! i wonder how long it will take to complete the mittens.


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## pinsandneedles

Darowil.. I have made mittens before with the gusset but as a flat piece,,The gusset has always been worked with inc. before and after a center st. which would form a v for the gusset, this is not looking like that and am wondering if I am missing something,or is this another form of gusset, could you help with this and thanks.


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## prismaticr

ALL MEMBERS:
More clean up done.
All patterns and instruction post by Darowil now have a PDF of that individual post right at the bottow for your downloading pleasure...

As a note, this workshop is full of many many students... (Kudos to you all)

Please continue to post away, I am trying to check in once a day to remove erroneous posts to keep the reading down to an easy level...

ALL questions should be posted here and NOT sent as PM's. This way your fellow crafters, who are probably also lost, will get in on the answers....
Also this keeps things in one place for later on.

IF you have technical difficulties, please, please read the TECH HELP of our workshop section first. I have taken a lot of time to make those instructions as easy and basic as I can for all levels of computer users.

This post and other helpful hints can be found on our main section page  HERE 

Thank you


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Mittens
> 
> I'm having a hard time with this. I finally got one row of ribbing done, but I had about an inch of yarn between the two ends.
> 
> I guess I will frog it and try again. Any suggestions that will help?


*MAGIC LOOP INSTRUCTIONS*
Like I said in the instructions the first row or two will probably not join well, but after a couple or rows it should pull together. You will have a tail left from casting on and use this afterwards to pull the beginning together when you thread the ends through.

Getting the first round or two close together is difficult- even now I often have a bit hanging loose. Look at my picture on page one titled joining the first round. Try to keep the left needle and the cable as close to a 180degree angle as you can as I have here. Maybe trying not to hold the yarn the way you normally do for the first stitch or two will help. Manually put it over the needle and pull it as firmly as you can so that you actually pull the cable closer with the yarn.

HINT- don't be tempted to thread the tail through before you finish the piece you are working on as it works as your round marker.


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## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> mlw2504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mittens
> 
> I'm having a hard time with this. I finally got one row of ribbing done, but I had about an inch of yarn between the two ends.
> 
> I guess I will frog it and try again. Any suggestions that will help?
> 
> 
> 
> Success! I am excited. I watched the video on the Magic Loop over and over and I finally got it. I have about an inch of the ribbing done. This was a real challenge! i wonder how long it will take to complete the mittens.
Click to expand...

Great- the hard part is now done, the next inch will go much quicker (but then could come problems as you become more confident and stop concentrating quite so much!).

*MAGIC LOOP HINT*
One of the things I am most likely to do now is pull the wrong cable so I pull the just knitted stitches off the needle! So always watch which cable you are pulling if this is the way you are moving your cables around. Gets you very good at picking up stitces- but normally it is not hard as they still maintain their shape as in this instance it is hard to miss what you have done! 32 stitches hanging loose is unmissable.


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Is anybody doing the mittens two at a time? I am assuming we will be doing the toe up socks that way. I thought I would practice on the mittens but not actually sure how to start. I am working on the hat. I thought it would be easier to practice the magic loop. I think it is. I started out slow, but think that I have the hang of the magic loop now. The hat seems small, but I have many relatives that would love a Viking colors hat. We have lots of MN Viking fans in the family, young and old.
> I will start the mittens when I am through with the hat. I still hope for some instruction on two at a time.





darowil said:


> The socks are toe-up on magic loop, but only one at a time. I have tried two at a time but didn't like it. If you think this is fiddly ttry it with two lots of yarn hanging down to get tangled, remembering which you did last etc it is much worse. Also I found it seemed to take longer as you have to keep moving everything around. Most people who do two at a time prefer it simply because they don't end up with the dreaded SSS (Single Sock Syndrome) and as I USUALLY do the next sock it is not normally a problem. but do note the use of usually, I do have some lonely socks waiting for a partner.
> What many people who want to do two at once do is use two needles and work each section, so on my toe-ups do the first toe then the second toe, move on and do one leg and then the other etc.
> In fact for those who have two needles of hte same size this could be good for the socks as you can reinforce each section before moving on the next one. Doing two castons and toes without a heel inbetween could well help implant it in the brain


.

I was just thinking about this Judy and have decided to buy myself another addi circular so I can do two at the same time . I can see why it would be awkward to try two on the same cable. 
I do like it a lot better than dpns, but am just heading into the thumb portion -- I am making myself a pair of mittens with one of my regular patterns - also keeping an eye on the fingerless pattern darowil gave us. I don't use a text phone so don't need a pair and gave a bunch of them away at Christmas.

Thanks for this workshop darowil and thanks to my buddy prismaticr -(Rachel) for helping darowil by helping with the tech portion and trimming the workshop. This is the first workshop I have been able to take and I am really enjoying it. Designer


----------



## Designer1234

I am so tickled -- I found some time this afternoon to work on the magic loop and I have my first cuff done and am ready to make myself a pair of mittens (lost a pair last week). I find it easier to hold if my thumb goes through the front loop - before that the loops were really awkward. suddenly they were working so try to put your thumb and fingers (on the other side) through the loops - that way they don't get in the way. I am going along like a house afire, and I am really a happy camper as I wanted to learn this for years. Tried it once but not successful. I hold my dpns exactly the same way- but just added the loop in my head to the ends of the needles i am working on . Thanks darowil! I find it faster -- so I am just about ready to start the thumb increases -- then will do the whole mitten instead of fingerless - so I will post a picture when I am done. 

I went to michaels yesterday and got 6 balls of kroy sock yarn for l5.99 on sale -- just a litte over 2.00 a ball which is a very good price here in Canada - bought two packages and I hope to do a waterfall with one color combination. -


----------



## darowil

yto111 said:


> Darowil- in the mitten pattern, when making the shaped gussett, when you say round 1 "k2 m1 knit wise" you now have 3 knit stitches, right? Then you complete the round with p2 k2?
> So then for round 2 you say to knit and purl as in previous round. So you would knit 3 then purl 2 then k2 p2 to complete the round?


I'm going to work a small section and take photos as I go so hopefully I will be able to use photos when people wnat to know something- assuming I can guess what people are going to ask.
I'm learning as I go - give me ideas as to what to do next time so it works better!


----------



## Designer1234

darowil said:


> yto111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Darowil- in the mitten pattern, when making the shaped gussett, when you say round 1 "k2 m1 knit wise" you now have 3 knit stitches, right? Then you complete the round with p2 k2?
> So then for round 2 you say to knit and purl as in previous round. So you would knit 3 then purl 2 then k2 p2 to complete the round?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to work a small section and take photos as I go so hopefully I will be able to use photos when people wnat to know something- assuming I can guess what people are going to ask.
> I'm learning as I go - give me ideas as to what to do next time so it works better!
Click to expand...

darowil, I hope you don't mind me posting - finally figured out a comfortable way to hold the needles so the loops don't get in the way. My husband just took two pictures and I rotated them so that they would show the view from the knitter looking down at them. It was so awkward for me so I hope this helps if someone is having the same problem I had.

I just put my right thumb through the loop when I start knitting. The left thumb goes through the left loop the same way. It makes the loop problems disappear as they are under control

I hope this helps. Designer

I am going to do my mittens tonight and then do a matching cowl -- wow -- I am really pleased. I like dpns but this works so much better. now to see how I can work the thumb increases. will keep you informed. thanks so much Margaret.

ps. All those years of working with my hands sure does show up in a closeup photo -sheeesh!!!


----------



## Designer1234

darowil said:


> Thanks Designer- thats a good idea. I might get my husband to take some of me to so a second way of holding them shows. And I will take note of how I hold and why! I just do it now without thinking.


I really was ready to give up until one time I picked it up and just naturally used them that way. I have used dpns for mittens and socks and possibly zoe might find it easier if she holds them this way. It sort of feels the way mine feel when I am doing dpns. as I said I am glad as I was ready to throw in the towel.

It solved the problem for me, I still have to deliberately hold them that way if I lay it down, but once I start, it comes naturally when I pull out the one needle to pick up the next row of stitches. So it is starting to feel natural. I did have problems figuring out what side the yarn should be on the needle and now it works well with holding them this way.


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I will try it with two circulars. I did the same with the dpns that 5 taught. It worked out great. I did not end up with any SSS. They all had mates and have been given away for Christmas minus the 3 pairs that I made myself. I guess I just read about toe up two at a time. The tangling yarn makes sense. I sorted out my interchangeables and found my smaller circulars, mostly on WIP's. I have the needles and the WIP's are on cables. I am starting shortly. I finished a hat with the magic loop and am ready for the mittens.


Was that a hat from here or had you atready done one?


----------



## darowil

Right I have been knitting this morning. Started a piece just for this. This post I will show some photo's of my way of holding the needles. 
Each of you will need to work out how to hold them for yourselves, but looking at designers way and mine migh thelp give ideas. Th egood thing with the mittens especially (and of socks for those who move on is that they are small enough to fit in your hand while working.
The first two photos are a general shot of where I posotion the part on hole on the cable. One photo has the thumb lfted simply to show the full view, the other photo is the way I actually hold the needles.


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## darowil

Dowager said:


> How soon are we going to need the sock yarn, as I have to order mine through Wal-Mart, and need several days for it to get here? I had started a hat, then read that if we are going to do the socks, we should do the mittens first,. I am doing them with a n#3 weight yarn, and they are working well but because of the late start I only have 1 1/2" if the cuff of the first mitten done. I am using a size 2 1/2 or 3 needle on the mittens. (The needles I was given are made in China and their size numbering is entirely different. (Mine slides tightly through the 2 1/2 size hole on my Knit Pro gauge ruler, and more comfortably through the size 3 hole)
> 
> Anyway, I want to be ready when the sock class starts. I normally use needles about 2 sizes smaller than called for because I am a loose knitter.


You don't have to do the mittens before socks. The only reason I suggested the mittens is so that you don't need to buy two different needles if you don't already have them.

The sock worshop begins on the 21st January. But it doesn't matter when you begin once it starts- each workshop stays open for a while so people can join in and ask questions at any time it is open. 
But ot have 1 1/2 inches done is good by now.

It is nice to come across other people who are knit so loosely! But it does make it difficult when petting out a pattern to know what size to use- hence my suggestion to use the yarn label as a guide. Many people using my needles would never get the needle through the stiches!


----------



## darowil

5mmdpns said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right I have been knitting this morning. Started a piece just for this. This post I will show some photo's of my way of holding the needles.
> Each of you will need to work out how to hold them for yourselves, but looking at designers way and mine migh thelp give ideas. Th egood thing with the mittens especially (and of socks for those who move on is that they are small enough to fit in your hand while working.
> The first two photos are a general shot of where I posotion the part on hole on the cable. One photo has the thumb lfted simply to show the full view, the other photo is the way I actually hold the needles.
> 
> 
> 
> Except for one thing -- you both knit English throw, and I knit Norwegian continental. The needles are NOT held the same way! ;-)
Click to expand...

Well that does create a slight problem. 
Let me try some continental- it may be a bit closer fo rou, but I just worked out how to do myself so no idea how reasonable a way it is to hold the needles (especially as I haven't worked out how to purl without my stitches being back to front.)


----------



## darowil

Now some more shots showing how I hold while knitting


----------



## jmai5421

darowil said:


> jmai5421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will try it with two circulars. I did the same with the dpns that 5 taught. It worked out great. I did not end up with any SSS. They all had mates and have been given away for Christmas minus the 3 pairs that I made myself. I guess I just read about toe up two at a time. The tangling yarn makes sense. I sorted out my interchangeables and found my smaller circulars, mostly on WIP's. I have the needles and the WIP's are on cables. I am starting shortly. I finished a hat with the magic loop and am ready for the mittens.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the hat was your pattern. I did the longer brim to fold over. It is purple and gold team spirit yarn for our football team. I have an embroidery machine to embroider a little viking on the brim. I am going to try the shorter brim to see if I can embroider on that, too. I know I will have several requests once the family sees the hats.. As for the fingerless mitts I have had a change of mind after reading Designers post. She is going to do full mittens since she doesn't text. Well I don't text either and I have plenty of mittens. I decided to try the magic loop on top down socks. I think that might be close to doing the mitts but more useful to me. I hope you don't mind. I will be done by the time you start the toe up socks. I really want to try that since I have some alpaca yarn. I don't know how much so will divide it and then start from the toe up and do the cuff until I run out of yarn. That is the workshop I have been waiting for so I can use the alpaca.
> Was that a hat from here or had you atready done one?
Click to expand...

I guess I posted my answer in the middle before your question.


----------



## darowil

Well here is how hold with my left hand. But I think it I just do it much the same but in reverse.
Zoe maybe somewhere else you could help me with purling- as you see they are twisted.


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## darowil

*MITTEN GUSSETT*
and now for the photo of the gussett in 8ply/DK after the first 8 rounds of shaping. As you see the shaping is one sided because you only increase on one side.


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## darowil

Well its time to suggest that photos of finished projects are posted here as they are being completed. 

Once you have done one item you can attempt other things as well. To begin with you may be better using patterns for magic loop, but I just adapt any dpn pattern to magic loop. And my third workshop will be the Dead Fish Hat. THis pattern is on dpns, but I will use it both to help people do the hat on dpns but for those who want to do it on magic loop I will be leading through the way I adapt a pattern from dpns to magic loop. And after that the world is your oyster as far as magic loop goes.


----------



## princesscaj

I thought I was doing good, but then I noticed that my knit stitches looked like purl stitches,(bumps in the front). I am pulling my bottom needle out, others video's show pulling the top needle. Which is right, and is that why my stitches are wrong?


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## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP*
Do your purl stitches look like knits?
I think you may be doing it left handed. Are you working from right to left needle? This is what my daughter does and her work is always opposite to mineI'm not sure which you mean by top and bottom needle.
I knit from my left needle onto the right needle and then I turn the work around so I have the next stitches to work still sitting on the cable but now sitting in the front. Then I move the front stitches onto the needle (they can only go onto one needle as the just knitted stitches block the way to the other needle). And then slid the other stitches to the cable (I actually find that often I need to have the just knitted (back) stitches on the cable. before I can get the other set on their needle.


----------



## darowil

5mmdpns said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well here is how hold with my left hand. But I think it I just do it much the same but in reverse.
> Zoe maybe somewhere else you could help me with purling- as you see they are twisted.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is how I knit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont hold my needles that way (not like a pencil) but hold them in my palms. My cables come down through my palms and are suspended between my pinkies and palms. I think the cable just needs to "loosen" up a bit. I am going to look through my needles and find a smaller needle to do this with -- will look tomorrow. :-D
Click to expand...

Well I got one stitch done but can't work it out again- will try again. However I did from it manage to work out the other way! doesn't seem as easy os my way- but my way has had a few more years of practice.


----------



## darowil

yto111 said:


> When you do magic loop do you work with the completed knitting facing towards you or away from you? I think that might be where I have gone wrong on all my previous attempts is that at some point I change the orientation and I end up with purl on the knit side. Does that make sense?


*MAGIC LOOP*
That could explain it. The stiches closest to me are the stitches I am working. If you look at the photos above you will be able to see this. 
To make sure you don't change direction simply remember that the yarn will always be coming out of the stitch you have just knitted. Look at this photo. This is how I store the knitting, put both sets of stitches on the cable (making sure that a loop is kept between them). When I pick the knitting up I see where the yarn is and put the stitches with the yarn attached to the back and work the stiches in the front. If I need to leave my knitting in the middle of a row I simply see which stitch has the yarn in it and put that needle in my right hand (and while many say never do this it can't always be avoided, especially if you are knitting something with a lot of stitches or have children and/or pets who may need urgent attention; and I don't keep rules well anyway, I frequently leave my work in th emiddle of a row just because- and if you have straight needles with a lot of stiches stopping in the middle of the row can help prevent them falling of the needles.),


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Darowil, my Mother used to get frustrated when she would try to pick up my work to help me get something done while I was in school. The stitches were all backward, but the finished product looked like hers. Well not exactly, she was an experienced knitter that knit for a high end store in town. She knit all our hats, mittens, scarves, sweaters,socks two color Norwegian, argyle, cables you name it she could do it and fast.


*irrelevant to the workshop* so it can be ignored.
It was only with the Magic Loop that Maryanne's work has looked different. I have had trouble explaing how to do things but not how it looks. But yes her stitches are 'twisted' but it doesn't matter for her. Not that she knits much at all, but she decided she wanted to try socks. Hers was also inside out. So that and struggling with the heel has meant that she seems to have given up. We were trying to work out how she learnt left handed th eother day and really don't know! I'm sure I didn't teach her. Once she needed to pick up stitches and I had no idea how I was going to teach her (and I can't do it for her because its all the wrong round of course). Fortunately we had a family weekend just as she needed to it and so I got my sister who also knits left handed to show her!
Think this just be a post that gets deleted later!


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> mittens
> 
> I have finished the section on the shaped gusset. Is now the time to do the row which transfers the 16 needles to waste yarn? The instructions say knit 2 purl 2 to make 10 inches.


*MITTEN GUSSETT*
You transfer the gussett sttiches once the whole piece measures about 8"- until then work without any further shaping.
Then you transfer the gussett stitches and work a couple more inches on the 60 stitches you are left with.

I have used a 9"circular to hold my stitches on my current mittens. Stitch holders don't work because they are straight and you need the flexibility to pull the two pieces together again. But id you happen to have these small circulars they are a perfect size ane you can then just knit straight from them onto the other needle when it comes to doing the thumb.


----------



## darowil

*HEAVIER MITTENS*
For those doing the mitten in a heaver yarn, the piece I am playing around with has 40 stitches and I did a total of 2 lots of increases instead of 3 which looks like it would work (and in that case I would transfer 12 (instead of 16) onto the waste yarn when you reach that point.
I used a 8ply/DK/light worsted so I would recommend the same for the aran/bulky/chunky as well (4 increases would be too little I think and it needs to be a full set on increases to keep the rib.


----------



## darowil

MamaBonz 55 said:


> I'm here, kicking and screaming but I'm here. As a devotee of dpns and the 2 circ method, I did try Magic Circle once but was frustrated by that big long floppy cord that got in my way. That said, I keep seeing people singing the praises of this technique and figured I must have been doing something wrong. So I'm back in the schoolroom with an open mind, eager to discover something new and wonderful. Your presentation is so good, I'm bound to succeed. Thanks!!


Well I hope you work it out. But you may always prefer dpns- but I like the challenge of trying something new at times too. Like I tried 2 at a time on one circular, did enough to know I could do it and to know I don't want to do it! So I converted the half done pair of socks to one a time. The same with the tiny circulars, did two pairs and no more- hence using them as stitch holders as I suggested above!
I love magic loop, prefer it to the porcupine of dpns, but do use them as well- but rarely for any reason except that I don't have any more of the right size circular as there is nothing that dpns do that magic loop can't that I have found. Well I wouldn't use my long circulars for icord!


----------



## darowil

MamaBonz the cords can be a hassle- but it could be that they are too firm. Some cords seem to get in the way more than others. Th efirst time I tried magic loop I was ready to give up. I had old stiff cables which just wouldn't do what I wanted them them to do. Then decided for some reason to try a more expensive needle (this one was an Addi) and haven't looked back since.


----------



## Designer1234

yto111 said:


> When you do magic loop do you work with the completed knitting facing towards you or away from you? I think that might be where I have gone wrong on all my previous attempts is that at some point I change the orientation and I end up with purl on the knit side. Does that make sense?


I did that at first and *realized that I was turning it inside out when I pulled the non working needle to the front through the stitches - I found the best way was to hold the needle with the yarn end at the back with both needles parallel with the ball above the needle -, pull the working needle cable out to make the second loop and bring that needle around to the front and start knitting the row in the front*. At least it is working for me.


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Mittens
> 
> All mittens
> Do we cast on the 4 stitches at the end of the row? I tried the knitting cast on at the beginning of the round but my yarn was in the wrong place to continue knitting then.


*MITTENS*
Turn your work around so you cast onto the end of the stitches you have just knitted and then turn it back again. Try and pull the stitches reasonably close (but don't pull too tightly- I did on one mitten I was doing and pulled the caston stitches so tight I couldn't get my needles in so I frogging I needed to go!). So the caston gets worked at the end of the round not the beginning.
if the stitches end up unevenly spaced it really doesn't matter- there is no real reason why the stitches need to be divided in half in this case so just put the stitches onto the needle and leave them there.


----------



## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP*
i've just been starting some magic loop which had a special caston which is very loose on the first row- and finding it very hard to tell which is the front and the back of the work after the first round (because it is twisting). I know I started with 2 knit and so need to be sure that the first two stitches are knits- and then when I move onto the next half that the stitches match up again. Once a couple of roiunds are knitted it should have enough weight to stay where it should be.


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## Maddy

Well I have completed one of my mittens! I chose to use a lightweight worsted and so adjusted pattern. I cast-on 40 sts. and am using a size 6 needle. The one I have finished is quite long up the arm, but I like that, no drafts for me. I have just cast-on for my second one and I am liking the magic loop method very much. I have had surgeries on both my hands for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and using regular double-point needles makes my hands cramp a lot, not so with the Magic Loop so I am a happy camper here. I will post pictures of my items when finished with hat. Thank you so much for this class in the Magic Loop, I really appreciate it.

Maddy


----------



## darowil

Well it was sure was exciting to get up this morning and find so many of you progressing and even thriving. And working on it what matters not how quickly you get it done. 

For those frogging- see it as a learning experience (and feel free to act like my frogs on t-shirt!), remember what you did wrong (that is of course if you actually know, often I can't work it out for a while). Gamquillter- I loved your comment of enjoying everyones frustrations. But yes it does help to see others struggling. And it is reminding me of my early efforts.

It helps to remind yourself that learning any new task is hard slow work. For some it will be easier than others. For some there previous knitting experience will enable them to learn quickly, but for others this same experience could be a hinderance as they need to do things differently. Each of us is unique, and we learn in different ways and at different speeds. And we all have different amounts of time to devote to learning this new skill. So don't worry about making slower progress. 

I have been surprised by the few questions- are some of you struggling and not wanting to ask questions? Feel free to ask, even if no-one else doing this workshop now wants to know the answer others later may well have the same question and be unable to ask the question. (and it might prompt others struggling out of hte woodwork too!). If you don't ask I can't help. I know there are some questions I was expecting that haven't been asked. But I didn't want to overload with answering everything that might be askedand so am waiting for questions that hopefully I can answer.


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## Designer1234

"""It helps to remind yourself that learning any new task is hard slow work. For some it will be easier than others. For some there previous knitting experience will enable them to learn quickly, but for others this same experience could be a hinderance as they need to do things differently. Each of us is unique, and we learn in different ways and at different speeds. And we all have different amounts of time to devote to learning this new skill. So don't worry about making slower progress""". 

DESIGNER HERE:Ladies, this is why I believe the workshops are so successful. When we work together we learn that we are not alone -- that each of us is different and that we help each other. The fact that each one of these workshops is taught by one of our members for no charge tells us so much about this wonderful forum. I agree l00% with Darowil's post. We are NOT on any time limit - as there are just two of us who decide these things, don't worry about running out of time as we want everyone who is interested, to master all our classes. 

Good job Darowil, and keep up the great work ladies. Pictures - Pictures, even works in progress are really appreciated. Designer


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## Designer1234

here is my first mitten with half of the thumb increases. hard to tell with this yarn as it is pretty bright - it is actually quite pretty and I think it will wear nicely with my Christmas coast which is a camel color. I will do a hat to match unless it is just too bright. 

I am having no problem with the cast ons for the thumb- and will make them into a pair for mittens - not fingerless.I am doing two 3x3 cables with 6 stitches in between on the top of the mittens. they don't show up too well in a picture so I won't bother posting them. I do like them although never would have picked that yarn if I hadn't bought 6 balls of it. 

Lots of fun darowil! Shirley :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


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## darowil

Angora1 said:


> The dpns and socks dont require any thinking or juggling/fighting those loops!!! Serenity is knitting socks with 5 dpns! *sighs* I could be contented being serene for the rest of my life! hahah, I may give these fingerless mittens another crack using dpns. hmmmmm, :idea: sounds like a plan at the moment anyways!


What brand of needles do you have Zoe. I tried this with one brand and it was nigh unto impossible till I gave in and bought a different brand. A world of difference. Darowil had the same experience if I remember an earlier post correctly.[/quote]

Angora remebers correctly- if I hadn't decided to buy the first expensive needles I ever got I wouldn't be teaching this workshop. I was about to give up because the cords would never do anything like I wanted them to. Have you got some different types to try them out just to see if Angora is right.


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## darowil

Dowager said:


> O.K. I have finished the 4" of cuff and am ready to start on the thumb gusset. The first row says to knit 2 then make 1, but gives no further instructions for the rest of the round. It goes directly to round Now I noticed in the photo the mittens are a cable pattern, which looks like it starts right after the cuff, and I see no instructions for the cable pattern. Finally, AFTER Round 8 is says the ribbing pattern should be kept up all through this. Also, my PDF download is 3 pages, and after the thumb instructions it has the photos. Unless I HAVE PICKED UP THE WRONG download. It seems there are no instructions for the rest of the mittens. What have I missed. Is there a link somewhere to the whole pattern for the fingerless mitts that I missed?


*MITTEN*
With the photo I specifically said that the cable is not included, the whole mitten is a k2p2 rib.
The pattern finishes after the thumb. As they are fingerless mittens they are finished after this point
*CORRECTION*
Sorry again.
Doesn't this show why I needed to give my socks to someone who would read the pattern as written not as they expect! No-one else has asked this- all the even rounds are then knitted to the end. _So round 1 should read k2, m1 knitwise, rib to end of round_. And then rib to end of round needs to be added to rounds 3, 5 and 7 as well.

I also see that on the Shaped Gussett Without a thumb I have not deleted K2,CO 4 stitches, rib to end from this section. _do not repeat this row again when you move to the All Mittens section._ This duplication is only in the shaped gussett without a thumb (the other two versions have this deleted already).


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I am going to try cuff down socks and might have to ask what to do with circulars and a heel flap. Somebody must know. I do not have a need for the mittens right now. I am loving the magic loop. The hat started out real slow with quite a bit of frogging but once it clicked with where to position the loops and the way I hold my needles (somewhat like 5dpns in my palm) the loop is great with fewer stitches falling off the needles and lilght weight. Thank you Shirley and Darowil.
> PS. I am still in with the toe up, no guess work on the cuff length.


Great that you are loving magic loop. I rarely use dpns (I can't say never as when when I run out of circulars or my sock club pattern is done on dpns- I usually do them as she says just because- I will use dpns) 
It is very easy to work out the heel- even if you have a dpns pattern the heel will be worked on one needle (and almost always uses half the stitches). So you simply use one of the two needles on your circular and work back and forth on this. Simply leave the other half on the cable and ignore them while you do the heel section. 
Any chance you could get someone to take a photo of you holding the needles working on the socks? Could help some who maybe struggling.

EDIT And I just rememberd another time I am using dpns- i needed tiny needles and didn't have the right size (1.5mm) but I know where I can get them now and so will do so soon so the next pairs of 2ply/lace anklet socks can be done magic loop.


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## darowil

Dowager said:


> Thanks Darowil somehow I didn't have, or see, that statement that the cable wasn't included. I have done cables, so thought nothing of seeing them as part of the pattern. I am, however, new enough at knitting (2 years), that I seem to need everything spelled out in detail.
> 
> Thanks.


But it should have been in there- so its good that you picked it up.
If you go onto the socks these problems should have been ironed out. I had thought of getting them test knitted, but the mittens have showm how important it is to do so.


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## darowil

Designer1234 said:


> here is my first mitten with half of the thumb increases. hard to tell with this yarn as it is pretty bright - it is actually quite pretty and I think it will wear nicely with my Christmas coast which is a camel color. I will do a hat to match unless it is just too bright.
> 
> I am having no problem with the cast ons for the thumb- and will make them into a pair for mittens - not fingerless.I am doing two 3x3 cables with 6 stitches in between on the top of the mittens. they don't show up too well in a picture so I won't bother posting them. I do like them although never would have picked that yarn if I hadn't bought 6 balls of it.
> 
> Lots of fun darowil! Shirley :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


Glad you are loving it Shirley. It always feel good to learn a new trick. Mighn't be able to teach an old dog new tricks but can teach an old knitter new tricks!
BTW old here is referring to experience not actual age!


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## darowil

yto111 said:


> Where can you get them? And does anyone know of a brand that has
> the tiny sizes on Interchangeables? I really want to get the harmony circus but they only go down to 4 ...
> 
> Ooops I guess I hit reply in the wrong place but I was asking darowil where she found her tiny needles?


Interchangeables do not come that small- they haven't yet managed to work out how to get the join small enough (which makes sense once you realise this).

I found them through Stranded In Oz but they are HiyaHiya, and Melissa has 0.07mm, 1mm, 1.2mm, 1.5mmand 1.75mm in the steel circular needle (under 2mm that is). I have one of the larger sizes and love it for magic loop (by larger I think it was 2.25mm!). So any reasonable sized retailer of HiyaHiyas would probably sell them or be able to ge tthem in. No idea if anyone else produces them this small.

Stranded In Oz is a local business run by a American lady who married a local guy and so is stranded here, she dyes her own yarns and sells other yarns and products as well. 
She has a sock club for which she dyes her own yarns, and designs her own patterns. This has been my Christmas present from my husband for the last two years. It is such fun anticipating every two months my next kit and wondering what she will create this time around- Christmas comes but 6x a year! And the socks are wonderful!


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## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Mirens
> 
> Well I had to frog back to before I transferred the 16 stitches. My question is do you pull very tight after you knit the 2 stitches and transfer the 16 stitches. I had a long piece that I was not happy with. Also when you cast on the 4 stitches did you have a long piece between the two sections? I did and frogged back to before transferring the 16 stitches.
> 
> Do you have any pointers that make it easier?
> 
> I'm learning lot about frogging, too!
> 
> Mary


I frog well, plenty of practice!
*MITTENS*
SUGGESTED CHANGE TO THE END OF THUMB GUSSETT.
Well i've done this part before and just decided that it would be much easier to do the slip 16 stitches to the waste yarn and then cast on 4 stitches all on the same row. So slip the 16 stitches to the waste yarn, then turn the work around, cast on 4 sttiches into the K2 you have just finished, turn back and continue ribbing the next stitches after those on the waste yarn. I did it the way I said in the pattern but no idea why it worked! This way will lessen greatly the yarn looping across.
This may seem strange to put stitches on the waste yarn and cast off at the same point, but the stitches on the waste yarn form the thumb and the 4 new stitches work up the side of the hand above the thumb.


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## tvett1

Just a quick note for you all struggling with the hard cables on your circular needles, I went on ebay and ordered a set of 15 sizes bamboo needles for $16.00 . I too had struggled with those darn cables being so non bendy and doing what they want, well the needles I got from ebay, they are wonderful instead of a hard nylon cable they have a very comfortable tube on the that is very bendable and they do not have a mind of their own like the cables. These are quite flexible and VERY easy to work with , so much so and so well made that I just ordered another set in 40 inch cables this time and the price was even less so I am set for a very long time for needles. You may want to look into a purchase of these perhaps they are wonderful.


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## jmai5421

darowil said:


> jmai5421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to try cuff down socks and might have to ask what to do with circulars and a heel flap. Somebody must know. I do not have a need for the mittens right now. I am loving the magic loop. The hat started out real slow with quite a bit of frogging but once it clicked with where to position the loops and the way I hold my needles (somewhat like 5dpns in my palm) the loop is great with fewer stitches falling off the needles and lilght weight. Thank you Shirley and Darowil.
> PS. I am still in with the toe up, no guess work on the cuff length.
> 
> 
> 
> Great that you are loving magic loop. I rarely use dpns (I can't say never as when when I run out of circulars or my sock club pattern is done on dpns- I usually do them as she says just because- I will use dpns)
> It is very easy to work out the heel- even if you have a dpns pattern the heel will be worked on one needle (and almost always uses half the stitches). So you simply use one of the two needles on your circular and work back and forth on this. Simply leave the other half on the cable and ignore them while you do the heel section.
> Any chance you could get someone to take a photo of you holding the needles working on the socks? Could help some who maybe struggling.
> 
> EDIT And I just rememberd another time I am using dpns- i needed tiny needles and didn't have the right size (1.5mm) but I know where I can get them now and so will do so soon so the next pairs of 2ply/lace anklet socks can be done magic loop.
Click to expand...

Here are the pictures of me doiong the magic loop holding the needles in my palms and my magic loop hat and the cuffs of my socks


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## prismaticr

darowil said:


> yto111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where can you get them? And does anyone know of a brand that has
> the tiny sizes on Interchangeables? I really want to get the harmony circus but they only go down to 4 ...
> 
> Ooops I guess I hit reply in the wrong place but I was asking darowil where she found her tiny needles?
> 
> 
> 
> Interchangeables do not come that small- they haven't yet managed to work out how to get the join small enough (which makes sense once you realise this).
> 
> I found them through Stranded In Oz but they are HiyaHiya, and Melissa has 0.07mm, 1mm, 1.2mm, 1.5mmand 1.75mm in the steel circular needle (under 2mm that is). I have one of the larger sizes and love it for magic loop (by larger I think it was 2.25mm!). So any reasonable sized retailer of HiyaHiyas would probably sell them or be able to ge tthem in. No idea if anyone else produces them this small.
> 
> Stranded In Oz is a local business run by a American lady who married a local guy and so is stranded here, she dyes her own yarns and sells other yarns and products as well.
> She has a sock club for which she dyes her own yarns, and designs her own patterns. This has been my Christmas present from my husband for the last two years. It is such fun anticipating every two months my next kit and wondering what she will create this time around- Christmas comes but 6x a year! And the socks are wonderful!
Click to expand...

OK, All... On the subject of the Short tips for circular needles... I have these..... http://www.yarn.com/webs-knitting-needles-knitters-pride-interchangeable-circular/knitters-pride-dreamz-special-interchangeable-circular-needle-tips/
They work GREAT! Especially for magic loop, because the needles part is small and fits nicely in my hand without sticking out all over the place....

Notice these are SPECIAL tips... designed for a 16" cable... But I use them on lots of stuff!


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## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> You said cast on the 4 stitches into the 2 just kniited, did you put 2 in each stitch or did you mean cast on following the 2 just knitted?
> 
> This is my first time to make mittens, and it is quite a challenge for me at this point.
> 
> Mary


*MITTENS*
By into I meant to use the last stitch just knitted to do the first caston stitch and then use this one for the next etc. I use a cable caston in places like this. (Long tail can't be done as you have no tail!).
CABLE CAST ON
In case anyone doesn't know how to do the cable cast on.
Put your right hand needle between the first two stitches on the left hand needle (that is between the last two stitches knitted- as you have the back of the work facing you for the caston they will look like purl sttiches). Place the yarn over the right needle and pull it through as if knitting a normal stitch but then pull it further and lift it up and place it onto the left needle- this can all be done with the right needle. One stitch cast on. Repeat for the 3 more stitches needed-obviouselly now using the last caston instead of the last knitted stitch..


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## 5mmdpns

darowil said:


> mlw2504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said cast on the 4 stitches into the 2 just kniited, did you put 2 in each stitch or did you mean cast on following the 2 just knitted?
> 
> This is my first time to make mittens, and it is quite a challenge for me at this point.
> 
> Mary
> 
> 
> 
> *MITTENS*
> By into I meant to use the last stitch just knitted to do the first caston stitch and then use this one for the next etc. I use a cable caston in places like this. (Long tail can't be done as you have no tail!).
> CABLE CAST ON
> In case anyone doesn't know how to do the cable cast on.
> Put your right hand needle between the first two stitches on the left hand needle (that is between the last two stitches knitted- as you have the back of the work facing you for the caston they will look like purl sttiches). Place the yarn over the right needle and pull it through as if knitting a normal stitch but then pull it further and lift it up and place it onto the left needle- this can all be done with the right needle. One stitch cast on. Repeat for the 3 more stitches needed-obviouselly now using the last caston instead of the last knitted stitch..
Click to expand...

Here is a video for those who need a video tutorial on it.
http://www.knittinghelp.com/video/play/cable-cast-on-english


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## darowil

tvett1 said:


> Just a quick note for you all struggling with the hard cables on your circular needles, I went on ebay and ordered a set of 15 sizes bamboo needles for $16.00 . I too had struggled with those darn cables being so non bendy and doing what they want, well the needles I got from ebay, they are wonderful instead of a hard nylon cable they have a very comfortable tube on the that is very bendable and they do not have a mind of their own like the cables. These are quite flexible and VERY easy to work with , so much so and so well made that I just ordered another set in 40 inch cables this time and the price was even less so I am set for a very long time for needles. You may want to look into a purchase of these perhaps they are wonderful.


Thanks for the info- I have wondered about them for magic loop.


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## darowil

yto111 said:


> OK. I am knitting the hat and have reached the point where my problem with magic loop always happens. I finished the ribbing and started the ss. And my purl stitches are on the outside of the hat. Technically I guess it doesn't matter because I could just turn it inside out when I am done but it will matter in future projects. And it matters because I don't understand why. And because I was planning to put some stripes in the hat but I am not sure where the wrong side and the right side are.
> 
> I put a stitch marker on what I thought was the right side early on but it is on the inside so I guess it is on the wrong side? But I made sure it stayed on the inside the whole time. And I kept the stitches I am working on closest to me so the hat was growing with the edge of the ribbing farthest away from me.
> 
> Can anyone understand this? I really want to be able to do magic loop but this has been my problem all along.


I will return to this issue later- I will think about it before replying more fully. 
My first thought is are you working from your left to right hand? My daughter knits left handed and has the same problem- she works from her right hand to her left..
You are right that for the hat it doesn't matter too much because you can turn the hat inside out when you finish and just put the strips so that go onto the insdie of your work, which will be the outside piece.


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Here are the pictures of me doiong the magic loop holding the needles in my palms and my magic loop hat and the cuffs of my socks


Thanks jmai5421. Your making brillant progress and the works look great. The hat colours are really good. I love watching the way the different sock yarns knit up.

Anyone out there doing the magic loop continental style who could post photos of holding there needles and yarn to help others who might be struggling with this? 
As can seen from the photos each person works out there own way to hold the needles- no one way is right. And I change my way of holding the needles depending on how may rows I have worked and how many stitches on the needles as well- and sometimes even if I have been knitting for a while just to change the position my hands are in.


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## darowil

rkr said:


> tvett1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick note for you all struggling with the hard cables on your circular needles, I went on ebay and ordered a set of 15 sizes bamboo needles for $16.00 . I too had struggled with those darn cables being so non bendy and doing what they want, well the needles I got from ebay, they are wonderful instead of a hard nylon cable they have a very comfortable tube on the that is very bendable and they do not have a mind of their own like the cables. These are quite flexible and VERY easy to work with , so much so and so well made that I just ordered another set in 40 inch cables this time and the price was even less so I am set for a very long time for needles. You may want to look into a purchase of these perhaps they are wonderful.
> 
> 
> 
> I too have full set of every size and every length of these bamboo needles; the cables are very flexible but I would caution you to never push against the join of the cable-to-needle (as one would sometimes do to advance the sts when they become bunched up) or you need to push them onto the needle from the cable. The joins have been known to become un-glued from the needle ends. It's possible to re-glue them but be aware of this weakness inherent in this type of needle: the join is not as sturdy as the more industrial metal-to-cable joints of other brands.
> 
> These needles work quite well in the larger needles, - I love bamboo! - due to the size of the sts being slid along the cables, but when you're using the smaller needle sizes, say - anything below a #4, as for sock-wt yarn, the cables are approx the same size as the needles and consequently so are the smaller sts.
> 
> It was very difficult for me to slide dozens of sock sts (Magic Loop) along these joints smoothly and keep them from laddering. The joins do have a small differential in size but the plastic cable (like small fish-tank hosing) is very thick compared to the thin smaller cables on other types of circ needles of these smaller needle sizes and I found it too frustrating to work with.
> I finally gave up and retired these 3 month old needles in favor of ChiaoGoo Red Lace with very thin (no memory) cables. A Happy Camper ever since!
> Bobbie R
Click to expand...

Again helpful info. I know I have had to glue the plastic cable for cheap bamboo I have bought here. Superglue does a great job (but onlu use a tiny bit as you want to keep your smooth join).
When DH gets up I will go upstairs and get a collection of my circulars and look up cable width etc.


----------



## darowil

5mmdpns said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yto111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. I am knitting the hat and have reached the point where my problem with magic loop always happens. I finished the ribbing and started the ss. And my purl stitches are on the outside of the hat. Technically I guess it doesn't matter because I could just turn it inside out when I am done but it will matter in future projects. And it matters because I don't understand why. And because I was planning to put some stripes in the hat but I am not sure where the wrong side and the right side are.
> 
> I put a stitch marker on what I thought was the right side early on but it is on the inside so I guess it is on the wrong side? But I made sure it stayed on the inside the whole time. And I kept the stitches I am working on closest to me so the hat was growing with the edge of the ribbing farthest away from me.
> 
> Can anyone understand this? I really want to be able to do magic loop but this has been my problem all along.
> 
> 
> 
> I will return to this issue later- I will think about it before replying more fully.
> My first thought is are you working from your left to right hand? My daughter knits left handed and has the same problem- she works from her right hand to her left..
> You are right that for the hat it doesn't matter too much because you can turn the hat inside out when you finish and just put the strips so that go onto the insdie of your work, which will be the outside piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When knitting in the round with magic loop or with dpns, your needle you knit off the old stitches to make new ones, needs to be held closest to you. I would expect that if the outside of the work is actually being knit so that it is falling to the inside of the "tube" then, you are knitting with the knitted work in front and the needle you are knitting off of is actually at the back of this "tube". When you started knitting with the needles, you pulled out the wrong one to start knitting the round with. Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

This would have been my first respons too- but she said she was working on the stitches closest to her. Any other ideas 5, after all the priciples are exactly the same as with dpns? I am trying to replicate it here and will googgle it. And I know it has also been raised on KP in the past- but I can't remember the suggestions!


----------



## 5mmdpns

darowil said:


> 5mmdpns said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yto111 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. I am knitting the hat and have reached the point where my problem with magic loop always happens. I finished the ribbing and started the ss. And my purl stitches are on the outside of the hat. Technically I guess it doesn't matter because I could just turn it inside out when I am done but it will matter in future projects. And it matters because I don't understand why. And because I was planning to put some stripes in the hat but I am not sure where the wrong side and the right side are.
> 
> I put a stitch marker on what I thought was the right side early on but it is on the inside so I guess it is on the wrong side? But I made sure it stayed on the inside the whole time. And I kept the stitches I am working on closest to me so the hat was growing with the edge of the ribbing farthest away from me.
> 
> Can anyone understand this? I really want to be able to do magic loop but this has been my problem all along.
> 
> 
> 
> I will return to this issue later- I will think about it before replying more fully.
> My first thought is are you working from your left to right hand? My daughter knits left handed and has the same problem- she works from her right hand to her left..
> You are right that for the hat it doesn't matter too much because you can turn the hat inside out when you finish and just put the strips so that go onto the insdie of your work, which will be the outside piece.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When knitting in the round with magic loop or with dpns, your needle you knit off the old stitches to make new ones, needs to be held closest to you. I would expect that if the outside of the work is actually being knit so that it is falling to the inside of the "tube" then, you are knitting with the knitted work in front and the needle you are knitting off of is actually at the back of this "tube". When you started knitting with the needles, you pulled out the wrong one to start knitting the round with. Hope that makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would have been my first respons too- but she said she was working on the stitches closest to her. Any other ideas 5, after all the priciples are exactly the same as with dpns? I am trying to replicate it here and will googgle it. And I know it has also been raised on KP in the past- but I can't remember the suggestions!
Click to expand...

Here, this may be the simple solution. Play the video! Makes total sense to me. Zoe 
http://knitfreedom.com/troubleshooting/getting-turned-inside-out-in-more-ways-than-one

Another helpful video.


----------



## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP* 
So far all the explanations are that you are knitting the piece of work awayfrom you. I have tried to replicate the problem and this is the only thing I can get to do it. Even knitting left to right only made it inside out because I found I was working on the back sttiches.
This photo shows a row part way through, the needle is in the next stitch and although I am not holding it ready for working the sttices I am knitting are in the right place at the front with the stitches on the cable on hold at the back.


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## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP*
If it turns out that you do have the work the wrong way you should be able to tun it inthe other way and keep knitting if you want- some say it leaves a hole, others that it doesn't. 
I was going to suggest finsihin ghtis hat as you are doing- but if you are doing it the other way you may reinforce this way of doing it. And it will cause problems when you are picking up stitches such as on the flap of a sock heel. Probably wouldn't matter for most other things though.

yto111 I will wait until you get to me before doing or saying anything else.


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## mlw2504

MITTENS



> SUGGESTED CHANGE TO THE END OF THUMB GUSSETT.
> So slip the 16 stitches to the waste yarn, then turn the work around, cast on 4 sttiches into the K2 you have just finished, turn back and continue ribbing the next stitches after those on the waste yarn. This way will lessen greatly the yarn looping across.


This worked much better for me. I am happy with the results.
Thanks so much for your patience and help.

Mary


----------



## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP*


mlw2504 said:


> I am also knitting the needle in the back. Does that mean that my right side is inside the tube? Can they just be turned after knitting?
> 
> I have watched videos of both ways of knitting....knitting the needle closest to you and also knitting the needle in the back.


Yes it means the right side is inside the tube. Are you doing the hat or mitten? . The hat can be simply be turned the other way (just ensure that you thread the ends through on what will the wrong side). 
The mittens however have 4 stiches picked up if you are adding a thumb and this could create problems. You will need turn the mitten in the right way then pick up the stitches and work the rib (and even if you still do from the back it will be OK). Just make sure you match the knits and purls so check your ribbing before you get far on the thumb.
But I suggest you learn to do it from the front after this so that you have problems later with some patterns.


----------



## darowil

*MAGIC LOOP*
Ok I will try to explain why some are getting their work round the wrong way. 
When working a knit stitch the v shape is always facing you. The - shape always faces you when you are purling. And so when knitting straight if you want a smooth work in rows of vvvvs you need to knit alternate rows of vvvs and ---s so that one side has all vvvs. (the back side of the vs are -s and vice versa).
But when you knit in the round all the rounds face the same direction unlike in straight knitting. Therefore to get all vvvs on the same side all rows need to be the same. This can done by either knitting every row or purling every row (it really doesn't matter, but most people find the knit stitch easier and so we knit).
So with magic loop the vs will always face you. If you are knitting on the stitches in the front as in this photo (it is the same one as above but saves you scrolling) the vs will be on the outside as this is the side that faces you as you work. But if you're knitting the stitches at the back (i.e. the ones that I have on the cable) the vs will still be facing you, but that is the inside of the knitting and so it will be reverse stocking stitch/stockinette on the outside.


----------



## Cashmeregma

I only get a few minutes on the computer since DH is on break, but he took a few photos of me doing Continental. Hope these are what you wanted. Sorry if someone else already posted. :wink:


----------



## darowil

Good Morning everyone- wells its morning for me.
Thanks Angora for the photos continental style- none had been posted.
I see why the yarn is hard to work with, so dark and variable. You should be able to get it over his head soon to check.
I couldn't work out from your photo whether you where knitting the front or back. But for the hat it makes no difference whatever.


----------



## darowil

Angora1 said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good Morning everyone- wells its morning for me.
> Thanks Angora for the photos continental style- none had been posted.
> I see why the yarn is hard to work with, so dark and variable. You should be able to get it over his head soon to check.
> I couldn't work out from your photo whether you where knitting the front or back. But for the hat it makes no difference whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Turns out I am knitting the outside. Yay!!! One never knows when still learning. I thought I knew it but still learning more about why it is we do things. Now I will understand what I am doing better after this. I tried it on DH's head and it is too big with just 72 stitches, so think I will decrease 4 and let the large part be the outer fold up rim and then it will tighten and hopefully fit better. I will need help figuring out decreases for the end since I have a different number of stitches, but don't expect you to do that since you already have your work cut out for you.
Click to expand...

I have deliberately tried at times to explain why not just what to do. But I also tried to keep it seperate so as not confuse the issue! For many of us understand why helps us to work out what to do when it is wrong or we want to do something a little different.


----------



## darowil

knezmom said:


> Decided to try magic loop on the second sock I'm making. It's working out great! But just to clarify, this tutorial won't address two-at-a-time Magic Loop, correct?


No just the one at a time. However it would be easier to learn two at a time I would think if you 're not also trying to learn the toe at the same time. Once the toe is done it 's not that hard(and really only the very beginning), but unfortunately the hardest part of toeup is the very first thing you need to do. Which is why I am insisting that people can already do magic loop before they do that workshop. 
Well I'm doing a short row heel which some people stuggle with. Bu the good thing with short row heels is once you have it worked out you can use the same heel on toe up or cuff down socks.


----------



## mlw2504

Mittens

Yeah! I have complete one and am looking forward to doing the other one. It should go much easier for me. There were a lot of firsts for me in this project: first mitten, first gusset, first thumb and first time doing Magic Loop. I am so excited to know that now I can do all those patterns designed for DPNs which I couldn't master. I ended up with ladders when trying to use them.

I am attaching a picture of my mitten. Please don't look too closely...the next one will be better.


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Mittens
> 
> Yeah! I have complete one and am looking forward to doing the other one. It should go much easier for me. There were a lot of firsts for me in this project: first mitten, first gusset, first thumb and first time doing Magic Loop. I am so excited to know that now I can do all those patterns designed for DPNs which I couldn't master. I ended up with ladders when trying to use them.
> 
> I am attaching a picture of my mitten. Please don't look too closely...the next one will be better.


It looks great- you will probably be the only one who sees the mistakes. It's so exciting to achieve new things isn't it?
And it is exciting for me too to see my pattern work out and that I was able to help people to learn something from scratch! That what is new for me about this.
It isn't that hard to adjust patternd from dpns to magic loop (what I will be showing with the Dead Fish Hat in my third workshop).


----------



## darowil

For those using the repeating sock yarns like Mary I will cut and paste in a paragraph from my intro for the toe-up socks


Many sock yarns have a repeating pattern. If the yarn you have looks like it does (sometimes there is a picture on the band, or where you bought the yarn or it is clear that there are some large sections of colours) and you want to have identical rather than fraternal twins you will need to make sure you begin your first sock at the beginning of a colour change. This way you can begin the second sock at the same point. (Identical means the pattern starts and finishes in the same places so the socks are identical. Fraternal means you use the same yarn, but begin and end in different patterns so the pattern is the same but staring from a different point. This is purly personnal preference

Well I thought it had more than that. But basically begin your second mitten from the same point in the yarn pattern if you want them to be identical, but it really is a matter of preference. 
And if you do this use the same point in the pattern to begin each new section (an extra round or less really won't matter with the sock weight yarns)


----------



## yto111

Well, here is my hat. 

The good news is I now feel confident about magic loop and look forward to using it a lot!
Also I learned how to use a lifeline on this project and I learned how to make a ribbing caston with this project as well!
I did forget that I had previously learned a method for making the jog between colors less obvious because I was so excited about how things were going so that looks ugly but... oh well.

Now my next question:
1: it is hard to see in this pic but whenever I am working in the round (magic loop or not) and I do color changes, I always end up with a loose mess where the color change happens. It was really bad on this hat although I fixed it to a great degree by sewing it up tight when I was weaving in the ends. But it seems like there must be a better way.
What I do when joining colors is hold the end of the new color wrapped around the needle so that I knit the first few stitches with 2 strands and I weave the end of the old color back and forth as I knit for a few stitches.
Any tips or tricks you experienced knitters can give me?

Thank you so much for doing this workshop Darowil! It has really been so helpful!


----------



## darowil

dwilhelm said:


> after knitting the first needle, my other yarn is too tight to get off the cord and onto the needle...suggestions?


*MAGIC LOOP*
Is this when you have just started or for each round?
Are you a tight knitter? Because I would think that tight knitters could have problems- just need to try and knit the stitches a big looser which is not easy to do! If it is only with the casting on and the first couple of rounds it may settle (even as a loose knitter I can have problems a few times). If it is simply early on making an effort to cast on loosely should help (using a bigger needle probably won't work because the stitches will be just as tight on the bigger needle)

However I find that the biggest problem for me with getting the yarn onto the needle is when the join between the cord and the needle is not smooth. Also some cables allow stitches to slide more easily along them and some needle types as well. I didn't get around to looking up my needles yesterday as I said I would try to do. I will by the end of this workshop look at them and take note of how the different ones I am working with feel and why to give some ideas.

Angoras suggestion of the yarn is also an option.

So to summarize- little knitted yet; yarn; tension; join between needle and cable; material of the cable and/or needle!

Hope these suggestions help.


----------



## darowil

marywallis said:


> what length circular needle for socks ? my yarn shop is having a sale till Sat.--size depends on sock yarn right marywallis Thank you for all info so far.


* NEEDLES FOR SOCKS*
The best guide for needle size is the ball band- each yarn can be slightly different. 
I'm a non swatcher and tend to pick the size for my socks by what is hanging on my door free! But I always use between a 2.00mm and 2.5mm (US 0 or 1- we have a 2.25mm as well so that is one in between the US numbers) for 4 ply/fingering. BUT I am a loose needle who often needs to go down 2 needle sizes to get anywhere near the right tension. So depending on your average tension you can determine which needle size to use. Loose knitters pick the smallest size (or even one under), average knitters middle size and tight knitters largest size

Socks are stetchy and so the size is not essential- however they do need to have a firm tension (this helps them to wear better and to fit better) so use a size less than you normally would for a 4 ply/fingering.

One reason I don't worry with swatches is that to be accurate they should be done in the round and I figure that by time I knit enough to have a swatch I could be well on the way to having a sock knitted if the tension/gauge is correct and haven't lost anything if it is wrong as I would have needed to undone much the same amount of work anyway.

The above is the information for the socks workshop on needle size. 
But you actually asked about length. Actually the same as for this one! length 80cm/30inch or 100cm/40 inch are the best lengths for socks. However if you anticipate trying two socks at once at some time in the future you will need about 120cm/50inch for these so might want to get them now. But altoguh you need a reasonable length (won't work with shorter ones- I have used 60cm but very hard to do and messes up th ecord if used often enough!) and can dpo it with any long length after working magic loop you can see how pulling you have to do if you use a very long cable.


----------



## darowil

yto111 said:


> Well, here is my hat.
> 
> The good news is I now feel confident about magic loop and look forward to using it a lot!
> Also I learned how to use a lifeline on this project and I learned how to make a ribbing caston with this project as well!
> I did forget that I had previously learned a method for making the jog between colors less obvious because I was so excited about how things were going so that looks ugly but... oh well.
> 
> Now my next question:
> 1: it is hard to see in this pic but whenever I am working in the round (magic loop or not) and I do color changes, I always end up with a loose mess where the color change happens. It was really bad on this hat although I fixed it to a great degree by sewing it up tight when I was weaving in the ends. But it seems like there must be a better way.
> What I do when joining colors is hold the end of the new color wrapped around the needle so that I knit the first few stitches with 2 strands and I weave the end of the old color back and forth as I knit for a few stitches.
> Any tips or tricks you experienced knitters can give me?
> 
> Thank you so much for doing this workshop Darowil! It has really been so helpful!


I'll return to this one- and others feel free to give answers. I suspect that there will others with as much to say onthis issue.

But for now I must go, I have some KPers coming round in 40 minutes and I shoul dbe preparing the house!


----------



## darowil

*HAT*
just responded on other posting to someones comment that she had decreased the number of stitches for the hat. She had 64 instead of the recommened 78.  
So I thought I would add my response here in case others have done the same thing or for future reference.

The hat decreasing starts with 13 for each set and you have gone down 14 so easy. Just throw in one decrease anywhere and follow the pattern for the decreases, but instead of 6 times do it 5 times. (I'm assuming this was the magic loop hat and you had intended to do the shaping there. maybe this should have gone in the workshop for others! I might go and add it in there.

Any increase or decrease of 13 is very easy as you simply adjust the number of times you do the section. And the number of stitches betweeen the k2 tog can be adjusted- but just remember that this will affect the number of rows of decrease and could also affect the shape of th edecreases.
Variations on the shape of the crown of the hat can easilly be made by changing the number of decreases on the decrease rounds and by how often you do them- every row or alternate rows are the two most common).


----------



## darowil

dwilhelm said:


> Yes it was with the cast on stitches and at the join. Yes I am a tight knitter.
> How far down the cable do the stitches need to be when not on the needle?
> 
> Is it possible to knit a couple of rows flat and then move to magic loop? Could I do them on a large needle and then transfer? Thought I read something abut that? What would happen to the flat rows?


You can certainly knit a couple of rows flat first- in fact I suggested it as a way of avoiding the work twisting while joining up. But it would also help your problem. If working a few rows flat remember that the normal rules for stotcking stitch apply and then change when you go to working in the round. As long as you knit the vs facing you and purl the-s facing you it will work. Ribbing if you are doing this is like normal -watch what you have knitted. If doing the rolled brim on the hat purl the second and maybe fourth rows, with all rounds knit once you begin to work circularly. 
The placement of the stitches on the cable is not important- you need it far enough from the needle to be able to work. On page 2 I have posted a photo showing the placement of my stitches as I work, and on page 3 Designer has posted one which shows her placement very clearly. 
Sorry if you posted this a while ago, I ended up out for most of yesterday afternoon and evening somehow!


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Mittens
> 
> My second mitten is coming out beautifully! I have completed the gusset with seemingly no errors, but I am getting anxious about the thumb and picking up those stitches. I think I need some pointers as to which stitches to pick up. 8 assume it it the 4 that we added. Is this correct? If is, I think I may use markers.
> 
> Needless to say that I will now have to make a third one, because the second one is so much better than the first one.
> 
> This has been a wonderful class. I want to thank you again for providing it for us. I plan to take the sock class, too.
> 
> Do you prefer wood needles for making socks?


*MITTENS*
no need for markers, although you pick up the 4 stitches around where the cast on ones are it doesn't need to be exact. As you will already have the stitches from the gussett on your needles you will just pick up 4 evenly between the first and last stiches.
I will post a photo of a sample I have, the sttiches on hold are on a very small circular and then you would pick up just under where the bamboo needle is currently.

you might want to use the first one just as a reminder of the new things you leartnt- a mitten full of memories as you wear it.

Socks, I usually use metal type needles, do have some bamboo buthtese tend to break and come apart- may be because they are cheaper ones- however a drop of superglue keeps the cables on the needles and DH is very good at trimming the bamboo and sanding it very smooth again.

The needles you used for the mittens should work for the socks too.


----------



## prismaticr

yto111 said:


> Well, here is my hat.
> 
> The good news is I now feel confident about magic loop and look forward to using it a lot!
> Also I learned how to use a lifeline on this project and I learned how to make a ribbing caston with this project as well!
> I did forget that I had previously learned a method for making the jog between colors less obvious because I was so excited about how things were going so that looks ugly but... oh well.
> 
> Now my next question:
> 1: it is hard to see in this pic but whenever I am working in the round (magic loop or not) and I do color changes, I always end up with a loose mess where the color change happens. It was really bad on this hat although I fixed it to a great degree by sewing it up tight when I was weaving in the ends. But it seems like there must be a better way.
> What I do when joining colors is hold the end of the new color wrapped around the needle so that I knit the first few stitches with 2 strands and I weave the end of the old color back and forth as I knit for a few stitches.
> Any tips or tricks you experienced knitters can give me?
> 
> Thank you so much for doing this workshop Darowil! It has really been so helpful!


OK... so first, here is a really great video showing how to color change and work that tail in at the same time... My preferred method as I hate to be done knitting and then have to go back and do more work....

http://newstitchaday.com/change-yarn-color/

_That said, in my best description..._

When you reach the point of color change, complete the last stitch of the Main Color (MC) and now, in the hand you hold your yarn, just pick up the new color, Contracting Color (CC) and begin knitting, or purling.

Do ONLY ONE STITCH. STOP.

Tighten the tail of the old yarn (MC), this will close that pesky hole created when changing colors.

THEN knit ONE stitch with both the tail and the working yarn of the CC. This will secure the CC and not allow it to become loose later on.

Next, if you will be switching back and forth with between the 2 colors, leave the tail of the MC dangling and just work the CC...(do 2-3 stitches with the tail and working yarn together then drop the tail and continue) 

*IF HOWEVER you are changing and NOT going back to the MC...*

Knit the next 2-3 stitches with the 2 tails MC + CC held together. This will work the tails into the piece seamlessly, secure the 2 colors very securely and leave no extra work for later on. ( I have also done this alternating the tails such that one stitch is MC and Working CC with the next tail of CC and working CC... This cuts down on the bulk of 3 yarns for those 2-3 stitches and still works the tails in.)

*THE ONLY CAUTION NOTE... *when you get to the next row.... Remember to work those stitches that have the tail worked in with the working yarn as ONE stitch, not two...

Initially your price will feel a bit thicker at that point, but after a few rows, you wont even notice it... I promise.... I do this ALL the time... both knit and crochet and NEVER have the work come unraveled later on, never a complaint about thickness... and I use this on ALL types of yarn, from crochet thread weight all the way to extra bulky....

I will try and put together some still shots of this technique and post it in the Help sections of our workshop....


----------



## darowil

yto111 said:


> Well, here is my hat.
> 
> The good news is I now feel confident about magic loop and look forward to using it a lot!
> Also I learned how to use a lifeline on this project and I learned how to make a ribbing caston with this project as well!
> I did forget that I had previously learned a method for making the jog between colors less obvious because I was so excited about how things were going so that looks ugly but... oh well.
> 
> Now my next question:
> 1: it is hard to see in this pic but whenever I am working in the round (magic loop or not) and I do color changes, I always end up with a loose mess where the color change happens. It was really bad on this hat although I fixed it to a great degree by sewing it up tight when I was weaving in the ends. But it seems like there must be a better way.
> What I do when joining colors is hold the end of the new color wrapped around the needle so that I knit the first few stitches with 2 strands and I weave the end of the old color back and forth as I knit for a few stitches.
> Any tips or tricks you experienced knitters can give me?
> 
> Thank you so much for doing this workshop Darowil! It has really been so helpful!


sorry I forgot to get back to you.
I use the Russian join, http://www.knitpicks.com/tutorials/Russian_Join__D31.html 
And to make this work when adding in a colour I only do it to colour I am adding in. I loop the new colour around the old colour and then us e the darnin gneedle to thread it through itself and then pull it up to the work. This leaves me one end that needls threading through at the end of the work, but ensures that the new colour can be placed at the right spot. 
An dif you are doinf stiprs there is no need to cut it off each time if it will be used agian. You can loop the yarns arounf themsleves as you move up to save them getting caught in fingers, toes etc (when used on hats this step is not as important.

Edit- I see Prismaticr has also posted recently so now you have more options. Experiment until you decide which is best for you.


----------



## darowil

Dintoo said:


> Darowil, thanks for doing this workshop. I've finished my hat and mittens to match. It was so easy! I've used magic loop to make 2 socks at a time, but didn't know what it was called. Also I wasn't sure how to knit only one article instead of 2--where were my brain cells? I really appreciate your time and patience. Thanks Jinny.


Sometimes the light goes on and we are left wondering why it was ever out! Glad you liked it. Can you post a photo of the matching ones? now you need to do matching socks too!


----------



## catlover1960

I just finished my first mitten. Will get started on the second one and look forward to the sock workshop. Darowil, thanks for doing this workshop. Your instructions were easy to follow.


----------



## darowil

marshanky said:


> I'm so excited. I figured out the Magic Loop and started the hat, and started the hat, etc. I can't seem to get the right number of stitches/yarn/tension. Usually I don't have big problems with tension, but I tried 88 st of worsted yarn on size 8 needles, and the hat was too small for a toddler! Then I tried 100 st with the same yarn and needles, and it was huge!
> 
> My mitten is coming along slowly with fingering yarn and #3 needles. At least it fits my wrist.
> 
> This is my first class, and I'm enjoying it very much. Other people's questions seem to be exactly what I need.


How odd with the hat- no idea why so much difference with the same yarn and needles! All I can think is that maybe your early effort was much tighter than once you got the hang of it.
One of the good things with these workshops I believe is the chance to ask questions and learn from others. I have been impressed with people not repeating questions, as happens on many topics on KP. Well done everyone, it is so frustrating to see the same question asked again and again even after it has been answered and this hasn't happened :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mlw2504 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mittens
> 
> My second mitten is coming out beautifully! I have completed the gusset with seemingly no errors, but I am getting anxious about the thumb and picking up those stitches. I think I need some pointers as to which stitches to pick up. 8 assume it it the 4 that we added. Is this correct? If is, I think I may use markers.
> 
> Needless to say that I will now have to make a third one, because the second one is so much better than the first one.
> 
> This has been a wonderful class. I want to thank you again for providing it for us. I plan to take the sock class, too.
> 
> Do you prefer wood needles for making socks?
> 
> 
> 
> *MITTENS*
> no need for markers, although you pick up the 4 stitches around where the cast on ones are it doesn't need to be exact. As you will already have the stitches from the gussett on your needles you will just pick up 4 evenly between the first and last stiches.
> I will post a photo of a sample I have, the sttiches on hold are on a very small circular and then you would pick up just under where the bamboo needle is currently.
> 
> you might want to use the first one just as a reminder of the new things you leartnt- a mitten full of memories as you wear it.
> 
> Socks, I usually use metal type needles, do have some bamboo buthtese tend to break and come apart- may be because they are cheaper ones- however a drop of superglue keeps the cables on the needles and DH is very good at trimming the bamboo and sanding it very smooth again.
> 
> The needles you used for the mittens should work for the socks too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would be very helpful to see the photo. Thanks
Click to expand...

Must have forgotten to post it! will add it here now- I took it but that is not much help is it?


----------



## Cashmeregma

Here are my two magic loop hats.

The hat is for my son and actually the second one knit as my first one didn't work. I want to give it to him before he goes on tour with a band he is in. 

The second hat is my mistake hat that I love since the ribbing didn't work and now I have a floppy hat for me. I've heard that mistakes can be new creations and I love this one and got a surprise gift for me.

Thanks Darowil. Great workshop.


----------



## darowil

The hats are both great Angora- ver effective mistake. I always figure that if is so hard for me to see if I have made a mistake than others are unlikely to- afterall they won't be staring at quite so intently.
Well you have just over a week to go and as you have done 1 1/2 already don't think you will have a problem. But at least inthe meantime you can wear them.


----------



## darowil

And the Sock workshop is open. Only introduction, much of which those on here will already have, and no pattern until the 21st when it officially starts. 
But I will be away Thursday to late Sunday here (around Wednesday to Sunday for most of you). This is one of the biggest weekends in the year for my husbands work and in which I am very involved too. But go and check it out and mark it as watched so you get the notifications when I put up the pattern.


----------



## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I love both your hats Angora. I was wondering what your hat would look like when you posted a picture in the begining. I imagine it was hard to see the stitches but you did a beautiful job. I really like the one that was a mistake. But that is good now you have two hats one for yourself and one for your son. I just finished one sock cuff down to practice magic loop. I will finish the toe of the other sometime tomorrow between church and my DD and SIL coming for dinner.
> I had trouble doing the toe last few stitches. I have trouble with kirchner and tend to try to do a three needle bind off. I lost some stitches this time and had to try to pick them up, missed one and ended up stitching it in. I am anxious to try the toe up--NO KIRCHNER!!
> It is late so will post picture tomorrow and new yarn for the toe up socks.
> I have a self patterning yarn. Is that o.k. or is there a pattern in your sock and should I have a plain yarn?


Perfectly plain- lots of nothing but knit, knit and more knit! Ideal for raw beginners and varigated and self patterning yarns. So ti suits the most number of people.
One of th ethings I love about toe-up is no kitchener- to fisnish you have 2 threads to deal with!


----------



## 5mmdpns

amg10241 said:


> @darowil, Im just about finished w/my gloves now I have to figure out how to post pics... can you pls direct me to the pattern for the cable gloves?
> thnks
> Annemarie


http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/808th-fingerless-mittens


----------



## britgirl

I just finished the first mitten this afternoon and am very happy with the result. I am hoping to get the other one started tonight and have them both finished by Sunday so I will be ready to start on the socks on 21st. I was really pleased with the end result.

Sue


----------



## mlw2504

darowil said:


> Britgirl they look great. All these yarns that I want to use now!
> See you next week on the socks.
> 
> it's funny I decided at the last minute to add the mittens to this workshop (hence the hassles early on with the pattern as I adapted another pattern in a hurry) and yet it is the miittens that most people have made. And they all look so good. It is amazing what a difference the differnet yarns make.


Mittens

I now have a completed set of mittens. I had to post another picture to show how much better my knitting is now. I have been working on my tension.

Mary


----------



## catlover1960

Just finished my second mitten. Ready for the sock workshop.


----------



## Designer1234

I just opened the "Parade' of magic loop projects with Darowil

here is the link-- don't forget to post your pictures both there and here! thanks,
Designer

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-139087-1.html#2659057


----------



## britgirl

Just finished my pair of fingerless gloves, so I am ready to start the socks!

Sue


----------



## AverilC

darowil said:


> britgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just finished my pair of fingerless gloves, so I am ready to start the socks!
> 
> Sue
> 
> 
> 
> What perfect timing- I've come up to the computer to do the final tweeking of the pattern prior to posting it.
Click to expand...

Just finished my fingerless mitts. Did them in a camo yarn so thought of my GS and put a flap on the top. just waiting for my needles now so I can start on the socks.


----------



## darowil

AverilC said:


> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> britgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just finished my pair of fingerless gloves, so I am ready to start the socks!
> 
> Sue
> 
> 
> 
> What perfect timing- I've come up to the computer to do the final tweeking of the pattern prior to posting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just finished my fingerless mitts. Did them in a camo yarn so thought of my GS and put a flap on the top. just waiting for my needles now so I can start on the socks.
Click to expand...

The tops make them really practical especialyy for colder places. Great colour fo t he guys. We really are lucky as women how much more chose in colours etc we have.


----------



## Designer1234

Hi everone- I got up at 5 am and started my first toe up with the magic loop.

*I love that cast on* - don't let it scare you ladies- do exactly what darowil tells you in the instructions. I overthought it for a few minutes then the light bulb when on - I am doing my increases and am at 26 stitches so soon I will start working on the foot. Dont want to put it down but the workshops get in the way! :thumbup: :-( :roll:

I am having no problems although it takes a bit of getting used to figuring out where the yarn goes when you start a new row on Magic loop. I followed your instructions and each row I hold them side by side with the active needles on the top it makes it easier. I was putting the yarn in front instead of behind the needles and getting a yarn over- (which I just slipped off the needle if that happened - I have solved the problem and I am REALLY happy with the toe-- it is smooth and looks so neat.

this is a great way to make socks! and I like being able to 
try them on as I go along. My husband picked out the yarn for his socks - and I am amazed that he picked a very bright kroy sock yarn with lots of colors. Once i get a bit more done I will post a picture. busy! Busy! thanks Darowil, I had trouble figuring out the cast on on utube so this is a great class for me.

have fun ladies. Shirley (designer)

OOPS! WRONG WORKSHOP! :roll:  :shock: :thumbdown:

This should be on the toe up socks-- think I will just leave it here!


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## Designer1234

There is another workshop which opened this morning. go to where it says,

Knitting and crochet workshops with designer1234 either at the immediate top of this post or the bottom -click on it and then go to where it says

#13-darowils- top down magic loop socks. and you will be there.

post so she knows you are there, and start reading the first page and start your socks.


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## prismaticr

Hey all.... Cleaning up this workshop.

As the Magic Loop Toe up is well under way, I believe you are all gaining confidence in Magic Loop and can close this one soon. If no further relevant questions are posted on the Magic Loop technique, look for this to be LOCKED by Jan 31st....

LOCKED means that this workshop will remain a permanent part of the section but no new posts will be allowed. HOWEVER, I am sure Darowil will answer questions if she is sure it was not already covered here.

Please make sure you read from Page 1 before asking questions.

Thank you all!


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## darowil

MITTENS
Turn your work around so you cast onto the end of the stitches you have just knitted and then turn it back again. Try and pull the stitches reasonably close (but don't pull too tightly- I did on one mitten I was doing and pulled the caston stitches so tight I couldn't get my needles in so I frogging I needed to go!). So the caston gets worked at the end of the round not the beginning.
if the stitches end up unevenly spaced it really doesn't matter- there is no real reason why the stitches need to be divided in half in this case so just put the stitches onto the needle and leave them there.


BTW you will need something like the cable caston for the middle of a row. Longtail does not work in this type of situation.

And a small gap wont matter as you will be picking up some sttiches for the thumb which help to close the gaps here.


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## darowil

ozziedee said:


> Hi ladies
> Ozziedee here I completed one sock have to frog it as it is too big but I don't mind as I am so happy to have completed a sock thanks to your excellent instructions. I will make many more I bought a knitters pride kabonz needle and just cannot tell you how happy I am with it I tried an addition needle but did not like the cable near as we'll as knitters pride.
> Thanks again
> ozziedee


Thats a shame (do you realise you ar eon the magic loop not the socks workshop? Prismaticr has posted the sock). Looks fine, but they do need to fit. If it is a Noro that goes a long way- I got 4 socks out of one ball. Why not just begin another sock smaller- are you decreasing the number of stitches or dropping down a needle size? When you get to the end of that if you have kitchen scales you coul dweigh it to see how much yarn you have used. And with toe-up youeasilly undo the casting off/binding off and make it slightly shorter if you are only just under.


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## Cashmeregma

Here's my 3rd Magic Loop Hat. Although I actually am working on Darowil's Sock Workshop too, I had to stop and make another of these hats as DH wanted one too. He loves his. It is the same yarn as the other two and although I just made it, he has already been outside wearing it and said it feels great, kept him warm and he loves it. You can tell by his sweet smile that he likes it. I made his sweater over 30 yrs. ago and he always wears that and an Aran I did for him. I just noticed he was wearing that when I took the sweater. A great feeling to see our knitting being appreciated. Thanks for the workshop Darowil.

Now back to my socks. :thumbup:


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## darowil

Kissnntell said:


> is it possible w/any of the closed workshops to PM the instructor w/Q:s?
> 
> 
> 
> darowil said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marimom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ijust found this site so I better look over all of the pages before the end of the month.
> 
> 
> 
> Although it will be closed it will still be up on KP and can be read and followed. All the relevant questions will remain you simply won't be able to post new questions anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

We are all KP members so PMs will probably work- but remember that the topic has been open for a while and it is unlikely by then that you have a new question that has not been answered. So before PMing any of us first check very very closely all the questions that have already been asked before asking your own.
If I am asked a question that I know I have answered I will refer you back to the posts (and if I am busy I could well not even look for where abouts it is but send you hunting, so save yourself and the teachers time by looking first). Many of us have or will teach more than one workshop and so answering repeat questions will just not be feasable, but I am sure I speak for other teachers when I say that we are perfectelly willing to answer new questions that arise and to hear about new projects worked etc.


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## darowil

Early on when I was talking about what needles to use I commented that I loved the feel fo the Kollage square needles but hated the cord and join on th eold Kollage. Today I got a new one and the cord is really good. The join is much better, though still not perfect,. However it is workable now, so anyone wanting square circular needles (sounds wrong doesn't it!) these do work- and very little option in square neecdles. And for those in the US who like to buy locally I believe these ones are made in the US unlike the last ones which were made in China. (and having mucked up th etoe I was working on on these needles I now have a small amount of frogging to do),


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## darowil

I came on here to say a very big thank you for all your support and positive messages- it has certainly helped me to see them. 
And all the psoitive comments i had received during the course of this workshop (and the toe-up socks) also helped me realise that her comments didn't apply to a large number of you- and no one method will work for everybody. Shows how important it can be to give positive feedback- you never know when it might not turn out to be important as your feedback turned out to be (as opposed to helpful and encouraging as it had been at the time I recieved it).


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## darowil

The wheeze said:


> I have been teaching myself to knit over the past few months. Not only did I learn magic loop from this class but learned a lot about tinking and reading my stitches. Just finished the mittens and took a pic but can't figure out how to send it (guess I need a class for that too)! Anxious to get started on the socks. My goal is to take as many classes as possible this year. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.


I'm glad you've also learned about reading your stitches- I think this is a very important thing to learn to do in knitting, it enables you to see quickly what you have done wrong, to work out how to fix a wrong- other than by tinking or frogging, though these can not always be avoided and to understand an instruction that might otherwise not make sense.

And now for your next learnng experience. Posting photos.
I will give the instructions for a totally new post (if you do a quote reply it is actually easier as you just follow prompts and can do 3 at once). So once you have posted your comment under the post on the main page you will see two new boxes (visible only to you) one edit (which you can use for a while after you post tomake corrections and and additions to your original post); the other is add new attachment. Click on this one, it will bring you you to a page with choose file, click on this and find your photo on your computer, you can then add a comment related to the picture if you want then click add attachment and it will do so- this takes a little while but not normally toolong. And once it is there it will come up on your screen as well so you know it has worked. This the KP part of posting photoos- if you don't know how to do on your computer either than I may not be so much help!
Looking forward to seeing your mittens once you have learned this new lesson.


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## darowil

Angora1 said:


> I just have to tell you that I have a smile on my face. Occasionally I have the needles in the wrong position with the stitches I just knit at the end of the needle and the ones I am to knit in the wrong place and start to try to knit and it doesn't work. I used to have to get up and come into the computer, look up You Tube, find the right video and watch it and then come back to my knitting.:shock: :x After doing the Magic Loop Workshop, I now just smile, adjust my needles so the ones I just knit are down on the cable, loop back up and away I go. I'm soooooo happy. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I finally remember. :thumbup: Thanks Darowil, much soother sailing, or shall we say knitting, now.


brillant- that as what I like to hear, people being able to work out for themselves what is wrong!


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## darowil

mlw2504 said:


> Darowil, this workshop has certainly whetted my appetite for making socks. I'm thinking about making socks with patterns now and learning to do precise fit. What an awesome experience this has been. Thank you for your help and patience.
> 
> Mary


And thats exactly what I wanted to do- whet appetites. If no-one ever uses the pattern again becuase they go on to other things I am thrilled. But the pattern is good for a base for doing other socks with.


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## darowil

February 4th it will close! Could have problems doing so Jan 4th I suspect. you are correct, and I am even going to confuse everyone even more. I am closing it today with darowil's permission! Designer1234


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## darowil

Thankseveryone for participating in this workshop. I've really enjoyed doing it and it has been exciting seeing people learn to do magic loop.
Personally I prefer Magic loop to dpns, so much easier than juggling the porcupines. As I so often take knitting out with me it is definately the best thing for working with in confined spaces- especially if you drop needles like I do. Very hard to lose a needle withthe work attached to it.

I hope that most of you will continue on and keep using the magic loop in many of the things you knit. I know a number have now made socks.

Mary commented on using this and wonders how to convert from dpns to magic loop. My next workshop (in March) will be the Dead FIsh Hat. This is a dpn pattern, but I will be also be working through it and converting it to magic loop for those who want to learn how to do this. So the pattern will be for dpns with no written out pattern for magic loop. However we will learn how to convert one from the other. It may get a bit confusing as some will be doing it on dpns I'm sure but I'm sure most people will cope with this.

It's not hard to adjust either way once you understand what you are doing. Many of you may have already done this by the time we begin this owrkshop.
So keep knitting and magic looping and I will see you on other topics I'm sure.


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## Ellisen

Thanks for offering this workshop. I've been wanting to learn how to use Magic Loop for a long time.


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## darowil

Ellison have a read of this - most questions wil have been answered already but I am here to answer new questions and give moral support. If you want ot learn on a Dead Fish Hat rather than the plain hat or fingerless mittens that workshop starts tomorrow and is also suitable for learning on. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-154100-1.html this link is the introduction to the workshop which shows you the hats (a photo earlu on and then a later one showing two more hats) and gives you the yarn and needle information (you will need to look at this with the needle information on this workshop as well- and I would suggest the longer length for this hat). If you have long ones you can use them however long they are- it is too short that cause problems- though very long can be a pest to work with it can be done.


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## kaixixang

Even without a 47 inch or longer circular...having an additional same mm circular of a variation in length (depends on what you're doing with it)...for holding the cable half where you need it...shorter than 16 inch for that.

I needed three, same mm size circulars to do the gloves. But I'm glad I tried.


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## darowil

KnitnNat said:


> Thank you so very much for opening this workshop again. I'm getting it down good now. I'm also doing the sock toe up#13,. Going well so far. Thank yu, Thankyu.


Great- good to hear that it is being used- if you strike a problem that has not been answered feel free to ask.


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## chezalvera

Looking forward to starting this new workshop.


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## darowil

chezalvera said:


> Are you saying that you are doing a workshop on posting photos??


If you go to the workshop page (link below this post) there is a topic on technical support, prismaticr gives information there on how to post photos. One of if not the first thing she talks about.
BTW welcome to the workshop- hope you emjoy it as much as others seemed to do.


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## darowil

TLL said:


> I have started the Dead Fish Hat with the Magic Loop - both are an interesting experience, but it is working!!!  Thank you very much for all of this wonderful information!


Great that they are both working!


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## Designer1234

*THIS MAGIC LOOP WORKSHOP IS NOW OPEN*>
NOVEMBER l8/2013

H Please read from page one.

Designer1234


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## Designer1234

===============================================================
====================================

*THE MAGIC LOOP WORKSHOP IS NOW REOPENED!!--- please join in with Darowil and follow all the information posted throughout this workshop*

Please post *'I'm In'* and once I have added you to the student count we will delete your post.

Darowill will answer any of your questions. The instructions from the original workshop are pretty clear so -AWAY WE GO!

* New student count *
21 thus far


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## darowil

Welcome everyone to this reopening of the workshop and all the new students. I hope you all find it as helpful as others have from the last time. Many people have commented how useful they find this technique.
Read the old workshop and then ask away. And feel free to let us know how you are going even if your questions have all been answered.

Last time the workshop was in preperation for a sock workshop so I recommened if you were going to do the socks that you make the mittens. This time if you are planning to go on and do the Fish Hat and you need to buy needles I suggest a hat as you can use the same needle for both. While you can learn magic loop on the fish hat if you area less experienced knitter I suggest starting with a plain hat- you need to do short row shaping fairly early in the fish hat so making it harder tolearn on. And the pattern for the fish hat is actually written for DPNs and so if you are doing it on magic loop some adjustments are need. But one intention of the workshop was to help you learn to adapt a pattern for DPNs to magic loop.
I will include a photo of the set for the fish hats just to wet your appetite.


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## jmai5421

darowil said:


> Welcome everyone to this reopening of the workshop and all the new students. I hope you all find it as helpful as others have from the last time. Many people have commented how useful they find this technique.
> Read the old workshop and then ask away. And feel free to let us know how you are going even if your questions have all been answered.
> 
> Last time the workshop was in preperation for a sock workshop so I recommened if you were going to do the socks that you make the mittens. This time if you are planning to go on and do the Fish Hat and you need to buy needles I suggest a hat as you can use the same needle for both. While you can learn magic loop on the fish hat if you area less experienced knitter I suggest starting with a plain hat- you need to do short row shaping fairly early in the fish hat so making it harder tolearn on. And the pattern for the fish hat is actually written for DPNs and so if you are doing it on magic loop some adjustments are need. But one intention of the workshop was to help you learn to adapt a pattern for DPNs to magic loop.
> I will include a photo of the set for the fish hats just to wet your appetite.


Love your hat, scarf and mittens. They are so cool.


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## TLL

Cute!!! 

Thank you for offering these classes again, Darowil!


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## Designer1234

jadancey said:


> Finally was able to buy a 40" Addi circular so I am in. Determined to learn this technic. Thanks for offering it.


Shirley here -- just really follow the instructions. the part that was most confusing to me was to figure out which needle should be short (the one without the yarn on the ball -bottom needlel)-- and which needle should be pulled out part way -(the one with the thread - this is the needle you knit into the bottom needle --

*I always hold the needle with the un knitted yarn at the top,-- and the needle without the yarn length at the bottom* - I pull them both together until they are side by side with a big loop at the other end from the points - and no loop on the front end -- Then I PULL OUT THE TOP NEEDLE
about 3 or 4 inches and knit into the bottom row[/b]. then turn it -- put the two needles together with the yarn length on top, and pull that needle out about 4 inches - there will then be a loop at the back and at the front. then knit into the bottom needle.

repeat the whole thing and do exactly the same. You will find it gets confusing but if you remember the above instructions it will work out okay.

Do that over and over and you will know how to do magic loop. Shirley Don't let yourself get confused about the loops they are really simple. Especially if after knitting one portion you lay the needles paralell with the top needle becoming the working needle (yarn and ball) then pull that one out 4 inches and knit.

I know I have repeated it but that is how you do it - repeat the same thing each time. once you understand what it should look like and the process it never gets difficult again.

good luck, Shirley


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## darowil

Deanna 7529 said:


> Magic Loop Intro (Download)
> Fingerless Mittens (Download)
> Magicloop Hat (Download)
> Magic loop instructions (Download)
> 
> I am reading on thread 2 and later it says that there are pdfs of all the documents. I cannot open these documents. Are there pdfs for these documents someplace? Thanks much, as these are .docx and I cannot open them on my computer. If I missed the pdfs, I apologize.
> 
> Deanna


Hi Deanna I opened them and they said pdf so I don't know why you are having a problem. 
However there is nothing in these that isn't in the workshop. Simply cut and paste them into a word document etc to print them out if you can't open them. They are simply there as downloads so it is easier for people to print them.
Pristmaticr will pop in at some point and look at this technical issue (she deals with these) but I thought we had ironed out all these issues when the workshop was open earlier.


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## prismaticr

darowil said:


> Hi Deanna I opened them and they said pdf so I don't know why you are having a problem.
> However there is nothing in these that isn't in the workshop. Simply cut and paste them into a word document etc to print them out if you can't open them. They are simply there as downloads so it is easier for people to print them.
> Pristmaticr will pop in at some point and look at this technical issue (she deals with these) but I thought we had ironed out all these issues when the workshop was open earlier.


As it turns out, these downloads were doc's not pdfs... I have since corrected that. Dont know how i missed it the first time around, but your friendly neighborhood techie has fixed it all.....

Any problems folks, let me know!


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## Deanna 7529

prismaticr said:


> As it turns out, these downloads were doc's not pdfs... I have sice corrected that. Dont know how i missed it the first time around, but your friendly neighborhood techie has fixed it all.....
> 
> Any problems folks, let me know!


They work perfectly for me now. Thanks to the "friendly neighborhood techie" and you!

Thanks much. Deanna


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## darowil

Realised that I hadn't had any emails about the workshops so thought I had bether check that wasn't missing any posts. But no.
Is anyone out there? If so I assume you are all going OK.


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## kaixixang

TLL said:


> I used my 60 in cable and it worked great until I got to the smaller part of the tail. I am wondering if my needles are too long?


At 5.5 inches...more than likely. If you have the under 4 inch interchangeable tips...go for it. I'm a little envious of the KP members who have the interchangeable sets...but I have all of the fixed circulars I need (for now :XD: )...so, no real bother on what size I need to work with.


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## darowil

TLL said:


> I used my 60 in cable and it worked great until I got to the smaller part of the tail. I am wondering if my needles are too long?


Is this the fish tail? if so you are on the wrong workshop! I had to do some quick checking to make sure which one i was in. 
But the fish tail is knitted flat so it doesn't matter how long your needle is. 
And it can't be too long for magic loop- but it can be so long that it is difficult to work with. 60inch is certainly long but can be done.


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## kaixixang

darowil said:


> Is this because it is in use or the wrong size? The length is OK for magic loop- might be a bit awkward being so long but doable.


Yes, I'm about 3/4 through my first baby blanket on it. I've worked on others with shorter circulars...but I had to have the length - though I probably should have gotten a 40 or 47 inch maximum. <G>


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## darowil

kaixixang said:


> Yes, I'm about 3/4 through my first baby blanket on it. I've worked on others with shorter circulars...but I had to have the length - though I probably should have gotten a 40 or 47 inch maximum. <G>


This is where interchangeables are good. Rather than buy a set I am slowly building up my Knit Pros- and lots and lots of cords as I have so many WIPs. The i need to remember to mark each item with the needle size when I remove it so I know what tips to add back. But it also means that you just need to add some extra cord when you need an extra long one so you can work all the time with the suitable size instead of trying for one size fits all. But when you first start out or can't afford them you need to make do and of course if you don't use many circulars. Or of course if you use a lot of small needles then the interchangeables aren't available.


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## TLL

darowil said:


> Is this the fish tail? if so you are on the wrong workshop! I had to do some quick checking to make sure which one i was in.
> But the fish tail is knitted flat so it doesn't matter how long your needle is.
> And it can't be too long for magic loop- but it can be so long that it is difficult to work with. 60inch is certainly long but can be done.


It was as the end of the fish was getting smaller - my needle tips are longer (could be the 5.5 kaixixang mentioned) and there just didn't seem like enough knitting to work with no matter how I moved the cable around and the cables were getting bent at the ends of the needles. I was concerned about the condition of the joins.


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## darowil

TLL said:


> It was as the end of the fish was getting smaller - my needle tips are longer (could be the 5.5 kaixixang mentioned) and there just didn't seem like enough knitting to work with no matter how I moved the cable around and the cables were getting bent at the ends of the needles. I was concerned about the condition of the joins.


Long needle tips should't matter especially with very long cords as you have- long needle tips with the shorter cords could be a problem (80cm/30 inch) as there won't be enough cord to play around with. Unless you meant 60cm not 60 inch. If 60cm then yes it is not a suitable length. Too short for magic loop and too long for working the whole diameter on as the body gets smaller


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## TLL

Hmm, interesting...maybe it is just me. They are the longer needle tips and it is a 60 inch cable. It all worked out. I just felt awkward the smaller the circle got. 

Thank you so much for your input.


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## Zraza

Please count me in. thanks.


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## fourbyin

I have a question.
Not being disrespectful but what is so fabulous about the magic loop?
Having asked I will say I have not yet learned the technique because I haven't felt well enough to even move, but people seem so over the moon about it and it just doesn't seem that extraordinary to me. 
Perhaps after I'm able to learn it I will understand but right now I don't
thanks
fourbyin


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## PatBrown

fourbyin said:


> I have a question.
> Not being disrespectful but what is so fabulous about the magic loop?
> Having asked I will say I have not yet learned the technique because I haven't felt well enough to even move, but people seem so over the moon about it and it just doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.
> Perhaps after I'm able to learn it I will understand but right now I don't
> thanks
> fourbyin


Hi fourbyin!

I'm sorry you're not feeling well - I hope you feel better soon!

Magic loop is another way of working a piece in the round without having to use dpn's. For some folks, dpn's cause them to use words that aren't part of their normal vocabulary! ;o)

It's a good skill to keep in your back pocket - you never know when it'll come in handy. It's always good to have options...

Rest up and get better!


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## darowil

fourbyin said:


> I have a question.
> Not being disrespectful but what is so fabulous about the magic loop?
> Having asked I will say I have not yet learned the technique because I haven't felt well enough to even move, but people seem so over the moon about it and it just doesn't seem that extraordinary to me.
> Perhaps after I'm able to learn it I will understand but right now I don't
> thanks
> fourbyin


I use magic loop often but can and do use DPNs. Why do I use DPNs? Normally either for icord or because I don't have a circular in the right size- well I probably do but its in use. And occasionally for a change.
Why do I use magic loop? I find it easier than juggling hte porcupines of DPNs. I often take my knitting out- and I am notorious for dropping needles. Well if you drop your circular it is attached to the other needle and has knitting on it so its not going to run away and hide like the DPNs do. 
For those who have problems with laddering on DPNs it is less likely to be a problem with magic loop- the angle makes it easier to snuggle them up close to each other). Using an extra DPN can help this- but then you have one more needle to slip out your work and onto the floor (and as a loose knitter my sttiches can easily decide they have had enough of behaving and just let go of the needle).
While it takes a bit of getting used to pulling the needles through I find it to be quick and easy -a natural action. 
The only thing that it is not practical to do on a circular needle rather than DPNs is icord (though it can be done if you really need to- just use the one with the shortest cord in the size you need).
And I find it much easier when I am doing a very small diameter like the inside of a circle to use magic loop than the DPNs with only one or two stitches on each needle. Keeping them on the needle and straight is well nigh impossible for me with these small stitch counts on DPNs.

I guess the biggest advantage over DPNs that is not personnal preference is the unliklihood of losing them when they are in use. Virtually every knitter has experienced knitting away , leaving the room and coming back to be minus a needle, or dropping one in a place where it is wellnigh impossible to get it back. 
It does also enable you to go from a very big circumference to a very small one without needing to change needles at all (unless you want to use dozens of DPNs there is limit to how large a circumference you can knit with them.) For the very large ones interchangeables are good because you can use add or remove cables as you need to until you need to use magic loopfor the very small parts.
Magic loop is only needed for small diameters- when the diameter is large enough to fit all around the needle you don't need to worry with the loops in magic loop.

I do hope you are feeling better soon- and well enough to be able to try something new- even if you choose not to try it.


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## fourbyin

So what I am seeing so far is that really it is mostly a replacement for dpn's. I have never used dpn's but I haven't knit in many years.
But it is interesting that that is what drove the need for someone to create Magic Loop. People are so clever.
I am going to try it because I want to which is why I signed up, but just had that question after I got to thinking about it one day when I was just sick and sitting all day long.
thank you all for your replies.
fourbyin


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## darowil

Yes- it is another way of knitting small things in the round like DPNs. Once your mind is working again most peole manage to work it out. And I will still be here. Until able to make the flexible cords that we get today magic loop woul dhave been well nigh if not impossible whihc is a lot of the reason it is reasonably new As you will have seen if you manged to read and take in what is already here you do need a flexible cable/cord. The stiff cords are horrid to work with for magic loop -they work fine for normal circular knitting so they don't need to be thrown out. Though the more flexible cords are still better IMHO but not essential like for magic loop.


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## Hannelore

Darowil, I can't download any of the pdf files on my computer at the moment so I guess I will have to read each page while I try to start the magic loop cast on. I know that a couple of the ladies from the knitting guild I belong to have done this so I might see if they can help me at the next meeting. I will give it a go without their help just at the moment. Such a pain as I have a pair of socks I would like to do to send to Canada when they are finished. From what I have seen so far your information is very good.


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## darowil

Hannelore said:


> Darowil, I can't download any of the pdf files on my computer at the moment so I guess I will have to read each page while I try to start the magic loop cast on. I know that a couple of the ladies from the knitting guild I belong to have done this so I might see if they can help me at the next meeting. I will give it a go without their help just at the moment. Such a pain as I have a pair of socks I would like to do to send to Canada when they are finished. From what I have seen so far your information is very good.


I also have a workshop for a toe up sock on magic loop- does assume a knowledge of magic loop. But it is easy to adjust the toe up pattern to cuff down (becuase of the heel I have done) and so if you want to learn on socks it can be done easily- simply ask my help as to how to adjust the toe up to cuff down. (It is simply that a bit harder to learn the magic loop while increasing. But I have since taught a number of people to do magic loop on toe-up socks. But either very experienced knitters or one I am working with face to face.


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## darowil

chezalvera said:


> I couldn't do the other workshop but I'm in for this one!


Start by all means- I am around even if I do disappear for a day or two here and there.


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## darowil

Diane D said:


> sounds interesting


Again feel free to join in.


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## Revan

I am in after Christmas. Revan


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## TLL

Cocoa said:


> How do I sign up for this workshop


You are here.  Just go back to the beginning to catch up on the reading and post any questions you might have, if they haven't been answered already.

Have fun!


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## darowil

TLL said:


> You are here.  Just go back to the beginning to catch up on the reading and post any questions you might have, if they haven't been answered already.
> 
> Have fun!


Yes this is correct- simply go through it and if your questions aren't answered feel free to ask here and I will answer. And when you finsih a hat or mitts post a photo.


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## darowil

Maz said:


> Hi and thank you. I cant seem to find the sock pattern.


This is magic loop- using either a hat or mittens to learn magic loop. The sock workshop is another workshop (which assumes that you can do magic loop- hence this first workshop).
The sock workshop can be accessed through the link under this post. The sock workshop is a closed workshop so you can't ask questions directly through the workshop- but if after reading through it you still have questions you can always PM me. And I do like to hear that they are being used so a PM is always appreciated anyway.


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## fourbyin

OK, I am well enough to give this a shot now. I have finished the grands gifts and will start on the magic loop hat tonight. I am making it for a 9 year old male so would I do the large one or the rolled brim one? I looked at the photos and info and can't really tell.
thanks ahead of time.
ann/fourbyin


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## darowil

fourbyin said:


> OK, I am well enough to give this a shot now. I have finished the grands gifts and will start on the magic loop hat tonight. I am making it for a 9 year old male so would I do the large one or the rolled brim one? I looked at the photos and info and can't really tell.
> thanks ahead of time.
> ann/fourbyin


The size is determined by the yarn and needles you use- the hats are both done with the same number of stitches so you can use whichever brim you want. For a child you will need a smaller hat so suggest you use a lighter yarn. 
Measure his head if you can, and then look at the ball bands for the tension/gauge. You can adjust the needle size a bit to help change the size as well. Remember that for hats you want some negative ease so you want to knit the hat a bit smaller than the head. This does give you some freedom to play around with-no need to be exact. 
The size can also be adjusted in multiples of six and for every 6 stitches less move down one row on the crown shaping for your beginning row. For example if you cast on 66 stitches (12 less than the pattern begin the crown shaping on row 3.
This principle can also be used to increase the size- add an extra stitch to the knit in the brackets for each 6 extra you cast on. For example if you cast on 84 (6 extra) you would work your first decrease row as (knit 12, k2tog) 6 times.
You may also want to make the edge slightly smaller, though it is not too important as if long it can cover the ears more effectively.
Glad you are feeling better and hope you have fun learning this. Was teaching someone this morning how to do magic loop and she finished the morning really pleased- she wondered why she had spent so much time struggling with double pointers.


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## fourbyin

Ok, I'm thoroughly confused. I started out on this hat #2. Did not watch a video - just started. Then after doing 4 rows I watched a video on youtube and according to it I was doing it incorrectly as my working yarn was on right needle. So for the 5th row I did it the way the video showed and after that put it up for the night as it was late.
Today I watched other videos and read through the instructions more.
I need to know: on the inside of the cable where your knitting is going - should you be seeing rs knit stitches or ws knit stitches?
thank you
ann


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## darowil

The working yarn should be on your right needle just like knitting with straights (assuming you are knitting right handed). The yarn is ALWAYS in the last stitch knitted and so except for the very first stich of the row it will be on the right needle. You move the stitches from the left to right needle exactly as with straight knitting. (for the first stitch of the row it will on the last stitch of the stitches you have just moved to the cable i.e. the row you just worked (remember that with magic loop a round has two rows).
If you are knitting the front stitches (and not those at the back) then you should have the rs facing you on the stitches you are knitting. The back stitches which are on the cable and not being worked will have the wrong side facing you as this si th einside of the hatSome people find themsleves knitting the back stitches withthe cable held stitches in the front. 
This photo shows a sock I am knitting on the needle (the stitches I am about to knit) you can see the right side facing you while the stitches on the back you see the wrong side.
Has this answered your question?


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## darowil

fourbyin said:


> Yes it does. Thank you. Somehow I got it turned around and ripped it out and started over.
> ann


Glad you sorted it out. to avoid turning round accidentally simply remember that the last stitch worked will always be on the right needle except at the end of the row (in both atraight and knitting inthe round. 
So when you area t the end of a row with magic loop you must have the stitches with the yarn on them at the back- but as soon as you work the first stitch it will be on your right hand needle. If you make sure you always have the right side of the needle you working facing you and in the front you will be fine.


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## fourbyin

Is there a photo anywhere of the hat with rolled brim already finished?


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## darowil

fourbyin said:


> Is there a photo anywhere of the hat with rolled brim already finished?


Only the one on the first page where it is on top of the other hat.


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## Designer1234

*Season's Greetings to you all*. It is nice to see the interest being shown in the repeat of this class. I will leave it open for another week unless there is interest in a few more people learning this technique. Thanks for your interest in this re opened workshop!


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## Designer1234

This workshop is being returned to the closed workshop area of the Section (scroll to the bottom and you will see the 40+ closed workshops[/b].

All closed workshops are available to all KP members - you are welcome to use the information and to copy portions of the classes. we just ask that they be used by KP members only.


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## prismaticr

Topic is now closed. For additional information not found on these pages. please try and private message (pm) the listed teacher.

Thank you and happy knitting/crocheting!


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